Blackmachine B2

valvefury

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Thanks for confirming you're completely full of sh-t.

Very specifically I've owned (at one time or another) 4 PRS Private Stocks. Three I custom ordered with my specifications. One of those (I custom ordered) was returned for repair - and they couldn't fix the problem.

I don't know you and have never met you so I don't know why you would attack my character.
 

valvefury

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funny thing is that you can get all those 3 guitars by the price this BM is selling for and still have some money left. Plus 3 high end guitars who would play the same as the BM

thats what we are talking about, the stupid high price. Any good reputable luthier today can make an awesome guitar who would play same if not better as that 20k BM, plus it can be made with better materials, at your specs. Even if the other guy pays 14k, you still are paying for a NAME, and all that "this guitars plays like nothing else" talk is all in your head trying to justify the fanboy of the price

But that is the point of the discussion. In many situations you are paying for a "name"but no one is complaining about that. Generic medications? Cars? Paying to living in a "certain" neighborhood. Paying to go to a better school? Is Harvard that much better than a school (Harvard is 45k a year and Penn State 17k - is Harvard 28k better)? People BUY what they WANT to buy at the PRICE they deem fit to pay for it. Who is ANYONE to judge how ANYONE spends their money?

This isn't an argument of quality - everyone here is smart enough to know that Blackmachine is a fine guitar just like other fine guitars out there. It is NOT a discussion of whether a 20k guitar sounds 16k better than a 4k guitar. This post started because people flip out at paying this much for a particular guitar.

As I stated early in the free market system the ceiling for an items value is as high as anyone willing to pay it. Why call the person a sucker who buys that 20k guitar? Why would you judge that person? The only the only possibilities I see why someone would bash this is 1 - they don't understand the free market system 2- they are jealous 3- they are trying to drive prices down for their own benefit or 4- plain ignorance (meaning they just never learned about this). Maybe the guy who buys it is a dot.com billionaire and to him that guitar would be like you buying a pair of drumsticks you won't use much.

Why would I care what people make and what people spend and what they spend their money on? I just pay attention to all the things I have to do be more successful in my life. Anytime I spend in judgement and ignorance is really wasteful potentially productive time.
 

Lorcan Ward

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thats what we are talking about, the stupid high price. Any good reputable luthier today can make an awesome guitar who would play same if not better as that 20k BM, plus it can be made with better materials, at your specs. Even if the other guy pays 14k, you still are paying for a NAME, and all that "this guitars plays like nothing else" talk is all in your head trying to justify the fanboy of the price

Price/hype/supply & demand/readily available clones etc aside they are incredible instruments. I've played 4 and all were ridiculously good. The amount of work Doug put into those guitars was crazy and the koa B2 I played was one, if not the best guitar I've ever played.
 

narad

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Maybe the guy who buys it is a dot.com billionaire and to him that guitar would be like you buying a pair of drumsticks you won't use much.

Maybe the dot.com billionaire pays $50 for a glass of water. What the dot.com billionaire pays for things is not an accurate interpretation of the market. I'm not saying some billionaire won't come along and buy the blackmachine for $20k, but that's really a completely ludicrous statement as it justifies any price for any good, and is about as likely as me winning the lottery. Actually statistically speaking, less likely than that.

Moreover, people saying that something is "worth what someone is willing to pay for it" are not looking at the market like an economist when applying that phrase to precedent prices. For instance, let's say a guy buys a blackmachine for $25k. There are now 3 people who want a blackmachine and have a substantial amount of money to spend. They are each willing to spend respectively:
A. $8k
B. $10k
C. $20k

A blackmachine comes up for sale. Potential buyer C makes his maximum offer, and it's accepted. Buyer C now owns a blackmachine. He grows tired of it, puts it on the market and says, "This blackmachine is worth at least $20k, as people have previously spent this much on blackmachines." How much is the blackmachine worth?

This is basically the blackmachine market right now. The distribution over how much people are willing to spend on luxury items is often very peaky, meaning that high prices are unsustainable when the peak market distribution becomes saturated.

Some factor needs to decrease peak market saturation to maintain inflated prices, but Doug is a.) making more blackmachines, b.) almost all the guys I know who had any interest have already owned one and moved on, leaving less potential buyers, and c.) endorsers have all moved on to other things. Bulb even compared his Juggernaut sig to his blackmachine FFS.
 

Maniacal

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I purchased my 8 string Black Machine a few years before the hype. By far the best 8 string I have played. Nothing else comes close.
And the B6 I have is also a great instrument.

I have been fortunate enough to try several of Dougs own guitars over the years... incredible.
 

SDMFVan

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Very specifically I've owned (at one time or another) 4 PRS Private Stocks. Three I custom ordered with my specifications. One of those (I custom ordered) was returned for repair - and they couldn't fix the problem.

I don't know you and have never met you so I don't know why you would attack my character.

Because this statement: "They are great eye candy 100% of the time but not playable really." indicates a distinct lack of experience with PS guitars. I'm not saying they haven't sent out a dud, but I know for a fact that above all else PS guitars are extremely playable. I have several very close friends on the PS team (I had dinner with 3 of them last night), and I know how seriously they take what they do. I'd be interested to know what number PS you had that couldn't be fixed.

Anyway, sorry to derail the thread.
 

Humbuck

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I've played B6's, but never seen a B2. I will sooner or later!
 

Sermo Lupi

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I purchased my 8 string Black Machine a few years before the hype. By far the best 8 string I have played. Nothing else comes close.
And the B6 I have is also a great instrument.

I have been fortunate enough to try several of Dougs own guitars over the years... incredible.

Nice! I still remember the Flight of the Bumblebee video you did with that thing, haha. Great technique, by the way!

I guess these threads can be boring to some because they hash out all the usual arguments, but for what it's worth I do enjoy watching the Blackmachine legacy progress. I've never had the chance to play one to see what the fuss is all about, but whether or not the hype is justified is one of the least interesting things about Blackmachine in my opinion.

I guess what it boils down to is that I don't really care that the quality/value/magic of these guitars might be a myth, I just enjoy that the reputation itself is mythic. It's something so rare, to have an item so unequivocally praised, and for that thing to be a modern shred guitar of all things (in a marketplace where, for a long time, only vintage gear had that sort of "aura"). No doubt people would trash the brand if the guitars became more widely available--even Ferrari and Patek Philippe get bad reviews sometimes. But for now, if we're only talking about the opinions of owners and players, the Blackmachine reputation is still pretty flawless. And it is easy to say that the reputation is undeserved--that it's either cultivated by sommelier-types or 14-year olds fantasising on the internet--but from a social perspective I think it's interesting that it exists at all. Cool to think that "legendary" craftsmen can still exist even in this day and age.
 

valvefury

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Because this statement: "They are great eye candy 100% of the time but not playable really." indicates a distinct lack of experience with PS guitars. I'm not saying they haven't sent out a dud, but I know for a fact that above all else PS guitars are extremely playable. I have several very close friends on the PS team (I had dinner with 3 of them last night), and I know how seriously they take what they do. I'd be interested to know what number PS you had that couldn't be fixed.

Anyway, sorry to derail the thread.

Let me rephrase...

PRS Private Stocks have a significant eye candy factor. A PRS PS in my opinion is over priced and they don't hold their value. If you buy a new one and go to sell it you will loose 40% easy - that's about 4-5k off the top.

I sold my PRSs and have pictures and serial numbers but this will be last place I'd share that information.

I am not saying PRS PS are junk - just that at that price point they have a high eye candy factor. I was a huge PRS guy until the past 3 years or so and I've discovered that other people make better guitars for less money.
 

theoctopus

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Next on my list is high spec Mayo, Vik and japanese Strandberg since I accept BM is too high price for me

Hi Alain. You were skating by relatively unrecognized to most, I'd imagine, until this statement. It was a good show while it lasted.
 

narad

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Hi Alain. You were skating by relatively unrecognized to most, I'd imagine, until this statement. It was a good show while it lasted.

Blackmachine owners coming into blackmachine threads to talk up blackmachine prices. You wanna know why hype drove blackmachine prices up 5-fold in the span of a few years? Tactics like these. :noplease:
 

Cloudy

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Blackmachine owners coming into blackmachine threads to talk up blackmachine prices. You wanna know why hype drove blackmachine prices up 5-fold in the span of a few years? Tactics like these. :noplease:

Yeap :lol:

This could not be more obvious. Wont see me offering 20k for a blackmachine anytime soon, hope they fall to a 4 figure value like they should be.

I owned a B6 and while it was a great guitar paying anything over 3,500$ for it would be absolutely insane.
 
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Rawkmann

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I was a huge PRS guy until the past 3 years or so and I've discovered that other people make better guitars for less money.

I think 'better' at that price point is subjective. There may be guitars that excel at certain things more than a PRS, but I'd put a Private Stock against just about anything quality wise.
 

laxu

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I am not saying PRS PS are junk - just that at that price point they have a high eye candy factor. I was a huge PRS guy until the past 3 years or so and I've discovered that other people make better guitars for less money.

Isn't eye candy exactly the reason why you buy a Private Stock model in the first place? If you don't care about that then I doubt the regular models are much worse. Whether that eye candy is worth 2 or 3x the price of a normal model is a whole another thing.
 

TheKindred

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Blackmachine owners coming into blackmachine threads to talk up blackmachine prices. You wanna know why hype drove blackmachine prices up 5-fold in the span of a few years? Tactics like these. :noplease:

Every time one of these threads pop up, the most vocal supporters are almost always exclusively people who signed up that day or have a 0-30 post count. Hyping dat hype.
 

You

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Every time one of these threads pop up, the most vocal supporters are almost always exclusively people who signed up that day or have a 0-30 post count. Hyping dat hype.

Blackmachine is nicknamed Hypemachine for a well supported reason.
 

Humbuck

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Blackmachine owners coming into blackmachine threads to talk up blackmachine prices. You wanna know why hype drove blackmachine prices up 5-fold in the span of a few years? Tactics like these. :noplease:

Is Ziricote supposed to be a B2 owner...is that what you guys are implying?

The comments on here and similar web forums don't and won't effect B2 selling prices...even if it is from owners of them. You're thinking too highly of yourselves if you think it does.

Look at how many people comment on vintage 'Burst prices and how ridiculously high they are, going on about how they would never pay that and they're not worth it, etc etc. You really think you're effecting the market? It's come up as an example in this very thread. Do you think Joe Bonamassa, Billy Gibbons, Jimmy Page, Mark Knopfler, Joe Perry, Slash, etc etc etc care about what you think of burst prices?

It doesn't work like that. They go for what they go for because people want them and there aren't many around.

There was supposed to be something like 1600 or 1700 original bursts produced. Supposedly they have traded hands for as much as 1 mil US. There have only been a handfull of B2's ever made with no sign of production increasing. There's just not enough B2's around, especially the really fancy ones. Supply and demand. They will each get the price someone is willing to pay at the time (if they ever come up for sale even) and you have no effect on it.
 

feraledge

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Apples to oranges here. Forums like this made Blackmachine the hype and directly are responsible for the price. These aren't bursts. As has been said, the laughs come from bolstering the perceived value of the guitars by attempting to laugh off loads of indisputably awesome ones. And a reminder that selling prices determine market value, not asking prices.
 

theoctopus

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I'm not making a comment on the value of the instrument. I'm laughing at the fact that Alain thinks he's being smooth.
 


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