Best plugin for DOOM/Argent/Cyber Djent? (8 string tones)

Roberto Djentz

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Extremely curious to know if anyone has dabbled in the Mick Gordon DOOM style genre, and if they know of a good amp sim that isn't too grindy/fuzzy/hissy. I've tried dropping the gain on my amp sim (Archetype Petrucci), I've tried different IRs and speaker/mic positions. I just can't seem to get rid of the hiss, even when I cut 2k-5k. It's just a fizzy hissy amp sim. Don't get me wrong, it's great for almost everything. Except, the fact I can't dial in a tone that has power without hissing....

TLDR = Anyone know a good ampsim for DOOM/Argent/Mick Gordon style metal? That isn't hissy?
 

NazVonGates

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I dont own a 8 string yet but I'll be dialing in similar chunky tones when I do. The music of doom is the best I've heard compared to usual synths and string samples. Mick gordon uses 8 strings, no doubt. I've read that he uses analog gear too. When you say your vst is too hissy I tried a lot that were too. The best luck you can have and from what I tried is switching up the cabinets and mics if your programs have it. To warm up the sound I always had luck with dynamic and ribbon models. Then comes impulse responses. I found a free set and with my open back headphones it sounds like I'm right in front of a real amp. Not a super digital, solid state sound. https://pluginfox.co/products/catharsis-impulses

With that out of the way, the most realistic, warm sounding vst I found are from mercurial https://mercuriall.com/cms/ they have a sample rate changer that just opens up the sound even more. I wish every amp simulator had this. x4 is nice, x8 is better and beyond that is diminishing returns to my ears anyway. The cpu use alone on my ryzen 1700 was over 40% with the highest settings.
 

CanserDYI

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Just letting you know there is a LOT going on under the hood of that mix, most likely little to none being done inside the amp sim itself. Most of these tones can be had with most of the Neural stuff, but the super clean start stop stuff and added smoothness is done in post.
 

Roberto Djentz

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I dont own a 8 string yet but I'll be dialing in similar chunky tones when I do. The music of doom is the best I've heard compared to usual synths and string samples. Mick gordon uses 8 strings, no doubt. I've read that he uses analog gear too. When you say your vst is too hissy I tried a lot that were too. The best luck you can have and from what I tried is switching up the cabinets and mics if your programs have it. To warm up the sound I always had luck with dynamic and ribbon models. Then comes impulse responses. I found a free set and with my open back headphones it sounds like I'm right in front of a real amp. Not a super digital, solid state sound. https://pluginfox.co/products/catharsis-impulses

With that out of the way, the most realistic, warm sounding vst I found are from mercurial https://mercuriall.com/cms/ they have a sample rate changer that just opens up the sound even more. I wish every amp simulator had this. x4 is nice, x8 is better and beyond that is diminishing returns to my ears anyway. The cpu use alone on my ryzen 1700 was over 40% with the highest settings.

I'll definitely have to check out the impulse responses, I have a ton of them, but nothing that stands out as great sounding. The ampsim I use is Archetype: Petrucci and I can't seem to dial in a good tone that isn't other muddy or hissy. I have EQ'd the living mess out of it, I've had it close to the tone I like, but can't get the hiss out of it. If I cut the gain down any further it will just be a DI signal 😩
 

Roberto Djentz

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Just letting you know there is a LOT going on under the hood of that mix, most likely little to none being done inside the amp sim itself. Most of these tones can be had with most of the Neural stuff, but the super clean start stop stuff and added smoothness is done in post.
I'm aware of the texture, eq, and noise gating. But I can't figure out how to dumb down the hissy/fuzzy frequencies in my mixes. When I cut the 2k-5k it just sound muddy and muffled, but when I leave them in, it's extremely hissy.

Here is one of my demo tracks to use as example.

 

CanserDYI

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I'm aware of the texture, eq, and noise gating. But I can't figure out how to dumb down the hissy/fuzzy frequencies in my mixes. When I cut the 2k-5k it just sound muddy and muffled, but when I leave them in, it's extremely hissy.

Here is one of my demo tracks to use as example.


I'd start with less Gain personally.
 

Lorcan Ward

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That Cyber Metal - Song 1 is awesome

I'm guessing you watched this video by the artist of that clip? He talks a little about guitars being such a small part of his mix and how he uses a synth bass plus these samples to make the mix more powerful.


I've also learned today that Mick Gordon created a whole genre called Argent Metal.
 
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Roberto Djentz

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I'm using reaper, focusrite Scarlett, Schecter Avenger 7 diamond series (in the example above) I have switched to a Schecter C-8 in my latest recordings, I use 3 different methods of mixing (headphones, computer speakers, and large sound system)

My mix sounds different after being rendered. It actually sounds better after being rendered. However, I can't hear the bass as prominent in the DAW as I do in the rendered format. Same with the mid, high frequencies... So when I dial in a tone, it renders with a much more powerful EQ.
 

Roberto Djentz

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That Cyber Metal - Song 1 is awesome

I'm guessing you watched this video by the artist of that clip?

I have skimmed over a few of his tutorials, but I have yet to find one where he demonstrates his tone/ampsim used for his recordings. Most have been using samples and or morphing sounds. Or even how to write that genre. Sadly, I haven't seen any describing how to mix the tones.
 

profwoot

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Yeah you should check out the hour-long talk he did at some conference about how he created the 2016 DOOM tones. It's... not normal.

Also, you'll never exactly replicate most any recorded tone if you're not doing a bunch of EQing. For example, I tend to prefer 5150-style amps, which are infamously fizzy. A lpf at 8-9k fixes that.
 

Roberto Djentz

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My main thing has been the hissy issues, but after a minute of messing with settings... I lowered my presence... And.. well.. that helped... I'll have to mess with it when I get a chance throughout the next week
 

profwoot

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Really digging Andromida. Very derivative of Mick's stuff, but I'm here for it. The guitar tone seems a bit more standard but still very effective so you could probably contact that guy for pointers.
 

Roberto Djentz

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Really digging Andromida. Very derivative of Mick's stuff, but I'm here for it. The guitar tone seems a bit more standard but still very effective so you could probably contact that guy for pointers.
I have reached out, he hasn't revealed the guitar tone, but told me the drums used were GGD invasion
 

budda

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I'm aware of the texture, eq, and noise gating. But I can't figure out how to dumb down the hissy/fuzzy frequencies in my mixes. When I cut the 2k-5k it just sound muddy and muffled, but when I leave them in, it's extremely hissy.

You cut at 2k-5k? I am a very hobbyist home recording guy but iirc thats the mids you want to keep. You want to cut above 5k-6k and below 80hz-120ishz (ballpark - home guy who isnt trying to be incredible) and nudge specific frequencies that are causing issues.

What happens when you dont go for this kind of sound for a song?
 

Roberto Djentz

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You cut at 2k-5k? I am a very hobbyist home recording guy but iirc thats the mids you want to keep. You want to cut above 5k-6k and below 80hz-120ishz (ballpark - home guy who isnt trying to be incredible) and nudge specific frequencies that are causing issues.

What happens when you dont go for this kind of sound for a song?
I have put lpf and hpf at 100hz and 5k but still get that super high sizzle, it seems to be in 2k, 3k, and 5k, but once cut or reduced it loses any "oomf" and sounds very muffled or dull.

I mean, I can get good clean tones and jazzy tones, buuuut when I shoot for anything heavy it turns out really really sizzly.

I posted a video above if anyone is curious to the hissy treble wash that I'm talking about.
 

budda

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Sounds like (dons pretender cap) you need to adjust the Q on the frequencies you’re cutting. You want a spike, not a bell.
 

Roberto Djentz

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Side related question, does anyone use reaper? Is there a way to change the in daw sound compared to a rendered sound?
 

profwoot

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I use reaper and have never noticed any difference between in-daw and rendered. Definitely differences between my mixing setup and other speakers, which is a constant struggle, but if your rendered audio is that different on the same speakers then something is going on with your settings.
 


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