Baritone Strings WTF?

Discussion in 'Extended Range Guitars' started by Infinite Recursion, Jul 28, 2011.

  1. Cheesebuiscut

    Cheesebuiscut Loves his Q-tuners

    Messages:
    4,053
    Likes Received:
    370
    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2009
    Location:
    NJ
    Big difference between a .074 tuned to F# on a 27" or 28" scale, and a .074 tuned to B on a 30" scale.

    To get the equivalent you would need to use a .062 gauge string on your low E of a standard tuned 25.5" guitar to get comparable tension.
     
  2. Dvaienat

    Dvaienat SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    795
    Likes Received:
    20
    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2011
    Location:
    UK
    Leonardo7 answered the question, but here is my take.

    Basically the reasoning behind your question is that a longer scale length requires thicker strings for correct intonation. That is why a bass uses 45-105 gauges, when on a 34" you could easily use a 74 for correct tension. Longer scale = thicker strings is basically the logic.
     
  3. Explorer

    Explorer He seldomly knows...

    Messages:
    6,620
    Likes Received:
    1,153
    Joined:
    May 23, 2009
    Location:
    Formerly from Cucaramacatacatirimilcote...
    Assuming that the Fender VI in the following track is strung normally...



    ...you can at least know what a 30" .072 B sounds like.The bass tones and baritone guitar tones are pretty distinctive... and the Fender sounds like a guitar.

    Until recently, I always wondered about the assertions that thicker strings immediately led to an instrument sounding like a bass. I started up a thread in the bass section, asking actual bass players about this assertion. I'm now convinced that a lot of guitarists don't know how a normal bass tone sounds. I'm also convinced that bass tone comes from tension more than from string thickness, with bass tensions normally double those of guitar.

    ----

    Regarding why people don't answer incomplete questions... I've noticed that a lot of people ask what strings they should use, but just assume that others know what tension they're aiming for. Telling people what instrument you're going to be using lets everyone know the destination, but not telling them where you're starting from (scale length, tuning, full string set beyond listing just one string) means that you're just asking people to cover a lot of bases and to ask a lot of clarifying questions. I sometimes remind people to give more details, but every time I open that thread I just don't feel like typing that out.

    Maybe I'll do so now, though.
     
    Hemi-Powered Drone likes this.
  4. Cheesebuiscut

    Cheesebuiscut Loves his Q-tuners

    Messages:
    4,053
    Likes Received:
    370
    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2009
    Location:
    NJ
    a .074 gauge string at 30" in B is like 31lbs... basically twice the tension the average guitarist uses for any given string.

    It comes from a few things but Imo* the biggest 3 are string brand, technique, and amp / eq.

    Elixir nanowebs on my 5 string bass thats right behind me along with a pick could fool anyone into thinking I was playing a guitar, DR extra life strings on my 7 string multiscale finger picked can fool people into thinking I was playing a bass.

    Even the elixir strings on my 7 string can trick people into thinking its a bass if I finger pick it / slap it the right way. Basically once your delving so far into the bass range that you need bass sized strings that HAVE to be double wound it starts sounding a lot like a bass.

    Its just gonna happen.

    Like I said before, the comparable string is a .062 in E2 (your standard low E) on a 25.5" guitar. Slap that thing on there and tell me how guitar like it sounds, it won't.
     
  5. WarriorOfMetal

    WarriorOfMetal The Dragonrider Contributor

    Messages:
    5,342
    Likes Received:
    467
    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2006
    Location:
    Boston, MA // Northern VA
    These are my thoughts almost word-for-word. I've even emailed D'Addario on the subject...twice. The first time, which was almost 4 years ago, this is the response I got:

    I never received responses to my response to that email, OR to the one I sent last summer on the same subject, expanded to the COMPLETE lack of sense in the 8-string set they provided for Schecter (who has since switched to Ernie Ball strings, of the same useless gauges, now available as the 8-string Slinky set).

    Here's what I sent to them, in response to their "answer" to my original email:

     
  6. Cheesebuiscut

    Cheesebuiscut Loves his Q-tuners

    Messages:
    4,053
    Likes Received:
    370
    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2009
    Location:
    NJ
    You need to whip out some tension calculators based on daddario's very own calculations, since on the back of every single on of their packages they advertise how unbalanced and nonsensical all of their packs are.


    Smart guys who probably play nothing but blues and heavily blues driven rock making sets for baritone and extended ranged guitarists.... what a joke.
     
  7. nunonaos

    nunonaos Member

    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2011
    Location:
    Portugal
    ok, this is a great string tension calculator:
    String Guage and Tension Calculator - Version 0.1.4 - 26 apr 1998

    here's an example for a 7 string guitar with 27'' scale tunned to drop A
    E4 .009" PL == 14.72#
    B3 .012" PL == 14.69#
    G3 .015" PL == 14.46#
    D3 .021" PB == 14.57#
    A2 .028" PB == 14.72#
    E2 .039" PB == 15.96#
    A1 .056" PB == 14.5#

    another example, this time for 8 string, with a low A and a high A (low to high A E A D G B E A )
    A4 .007" PL == 15.87#
    E4 .009" PL == 14.72#
    B3 .012" PL == 14.69#
    G3 .015" PL == 14.46#
    D3 .021" PB == 14.57#
    A2 .028" PB == 14.72#
    E2 .039" PB == 15.96#
    A1 .056" PB == 14.5#

    by the way, daddario sells individual strings and they're not too expensive, those 8 strings i mentioned would cost under 15€.
     
  8. Cheesebuiscut

    Cheesebuiscut Loves his Q-tuners

    Messages:
    4,053
    Likes Received:
    370
    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2009
    Location:
    NJ
    ^Was meaning during a letter to daddario... we all know how to use calcs here...

    We all also know about the individual strings... its just annoying having to piece together a set that costs more money than just being able to buy a pre-packaged set that has correct gauges. There's absolutely no reason for them to intentionally put out unbalanced sets.
     
  9. Dayn

    Dayn silly person

    Messages:
    1,636
    Likes Received:
    570
    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2011
    Location:
    Brisbane, Australia
    Just remember to change the PB to NW: you'd want the tension of the nickel-wound strings, not the phosphor bronze acoustic strings. So:

    len 27"
    A4 .007" PL == 15.87#
    E4 .009" PL == 14.72#
    B3 .012" PL == 14.69#
    G3 .015" PL == 14.46#
    D3 .021" NW == 13.51#
    A2 .028" NW == 13.4#
    E2 .039" NW == 14.33#
    A1 .056" NW == 13.16#
     
  10. WarriorOfMetal

    WarriorOfMetal The Dragonrider Contributor

    Messages:
    5,342
    Likes Received:
    467
    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2006
    Location:
    Boston, MA // Northern VA


    I emailed D'Addario again last night after posting in this thread, and did exactly that :yesway:

    I got a response this afternoon, apologizing for never giving me a good answer, and said they'd take some time to "delve into it" and get back to me tomorrow.
     
  11. Greatoliver

    Greatoliver Looking to windward

    Messages:
    895
    Likes Received:
    56
    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2009
    Location:
    Cambridge/Suffolk, UK
    Just like to leave this here....:

    [​IMG]


    A bit OT, but I think this is the only balanced set I have seen. It's always confused me why 10s are so unbalanced.

    On topic: I agree about how baritone sets don't make sense... In fact, most string sets that companies put out (especially for 7strings) are bizarre
     
  12. Hemi-Powered Drone

    Hemi-Powered Drone Dragonblade629

    Messages:
    3,337
    Likes Received:
    227
    Joined:
    May 22, 2010
    Location:
    Sunrise, FL
    To be honest I like my sets to be a bit unbalanced, very light unwound strings, heavy wounds.
     
  13. Greatoliver

    Greatoliver Looking to windward

    Messages:
    895
    Likes Received:
    56
    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2009
    Location:
    Cambridge/Suffolk, UK
    They don't balance like that however:

    E .010" PL == 16.21#
    B, .013" PL == 15.38#
    G, .017" pl == 16.57#
    D, .026" nw == 18.41#
    A,, .036" nw == 19.54#
    E,, .046" nw == 17.48#
    total == 103.59#

    While the wound are heavier, there is over 2 pounds tension between the A and the E string... :ugh:
     
  14. Cheesebuiscut

    Cheesebuiscut Loves his Q-tuners

    Messages:
    4,053
    Likes Received:
    370
    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2009
    Location:
    NJ
    Awesome! I'd like to see what good answer they come up with :rofl:

    Or maybe it'll start a revolution and things will actually get fixed! :metal:
     
  15. WarriorOfMetal

    WarriorOfMetal The Dragonrider Contributor

    Messages:
    5,342
    Likes Received:
    467
    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2006
    Location:
    Boston, MA // Northern VA
    They got back to me today, apologizing that they didn't have an answer yet, but that hopefully they could establish closure tomorrow :yesway:
     
  16. Cheesebuiscut

    Cheesebuiscut Loves his Q-tuners

    Messages:
    4,053
    Likes Received:
    370
    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2009
    Location:
    NJ
    Wow, that's impressive. No joke to take the time to write out the message at all not to keep you waiting.

    Well shit. Good for you d'addario, good for you.


    edit: :ninja:
     
  17. WarriorOfMetal

    WarriorOfMetal The Dragonrider Contributor

    Messages:
    5,342
    Likes Received:
    467
    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2006
    Location:
    Boston, MA // Northern VA
    BTW, if anyone feels like reading my (long and detailed) letter to D'Addario:

     
  18. Cheesebuiscut

    Cheesebuiscut Loves his Q-tuners

    Messages:
    4,053
    Likes Received:
    370
    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2009
    Location:
    NJ
    Sooooooo...
     
  19. Captain Shoggoth

    Captain Shoggoth literally just vibing

    Messages:
    1,236
    Likes Received:
    71
    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2011
    Location:
    Essex, UK
    The plot thickens!

    Seriously though, I'm also waiting for an answer, and I think your gauges are spot on (apart from maybe the high E and B I'd change to an .09 and a .12 'cause I like 'em loose haha)
     
  20. WarriorOfMetal

    WarriorOfMetal The Dragonrider Contributor

    Messages:
    5,342
    Likes Received:
    467
    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2006
    Location:
    Boston, MA // Northern VA
    Still waiting on an answer. Last I heard, there was a particular person they were trying to get in touch with for an answer. Maybe sometime this week.
     

Share This Page