Any idea why my new E-II Eclipse-7 is so noisy?

Discussion in 'Beginners/FAQ' started by Lopp, Apr 10, 2021.

  1. Lopp

    Lopp SS.org Regular

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    Picked up a new unopened E-II Eclipse-7 Evertune less than a week ago with a Pegasus pickup in the bridge position. It is almost as noisy as a single coil. Sometimes the noise is so bad, it overwhelms a sustained note. It sounds similar to the noise when you plug your guitar in or hold the end of your guitar cable with the amp on (admittedly, doing that is even noisier).



    The coil splitting is turned off and the Eclipse is even noisier with the tone knob pulled to split the Pegasus into a single coil.

    It is not my amp or cable or anything, as I do not have the problem with my other guitars, like my PRS CE24 shown in the vid.

    Any ideas how to troubleshoot this or who to contact about the issue?
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2021
  2. Edika

    Edika SS.org Regular

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    Sounds like a grounding issue. Which is strange as the E-II's would have shielding paint in the control cavity, pickup cavities and switch. Maybe one of the ground joints is a bit loose?

    I have guitars that are noisier than others. My Gibson LP is one of them but while the grounding is good there is no shielding in the switch, pickup and control cavity.
     
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  3. Lopp

    Lopp SS.org Regular

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    Good tips. Yeah, grounding is the likely culprit. Thanks for the more detailed analysis.

    As its only a week old, loose wires should be covered under warranty. Fortunately, I got it from a Guitar Center a few blocks from my place, so I'll have them check it out.
     
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  4. KnightBrolaire

    KnightBrolaire L'enfant sausage

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    probably not grounded well, as edika said. Does the noise go away when you touch the bridge of the guitar?
     
  5. nickgray

    nickgray SS.org Regular

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    Sounds like a grounding issue. If you have a multimeter, just look up a YouTube video on how to check for proper grounding, it's very easy to do.
     
  6. Lopp

    Lopp SS.org Regular

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    Thanks for the great tips.

    @KnightBrolaire

    As shown in the video, I was touching the strings, which touch the bridge, and it was still noisy. However, I just realized it came with Elixir Nanoweb strings, which are coated and may insulate the strings from touching them. Unfortunately, that didn't make any difference. See my next comments.

    @nickgray

    That was a big help in troubleshooting. It didn't solve the problem, but it narrowed it down. In particular, I checked the continuity of the input jack ground with the strings using a DMM. Despite having the nanoweb coating, it did give a beep for continuity on the high strings. (The lower strings also did after I rubbed some coating off with the pin of the DMM).

    Even though it didn't solve the noise problem, this did help narrow the issue down, at least in the sense that now we know at least the input jack is grounded. I don't know if there still might be a grounding problem with the internal components, like a pickup, pot, or switch.

    For more troubleshooting, I just tried a different cable as well as a different amp. Still noisy, which shouldn't be a surprise because there was much less noise with a different guitar through the same cable and amp.

    It may be possible that there is some sort of RF or grounding problem in my house, where it wasn't as noticeable with my other guitars, but the Pegasus pickup is hotter, which makes it more noticeable (even though my PRS has a HFS (Hot Fat Screaming) pickup).
     
  7. Edika

    Edika SS.org Regular

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    Do you have the same noise coming from the Sentient pickup? It is lower output but it should give you the same noise if the issue is coming from somewhere in the circuit. If it's only the Pegasus then you can check the pickup's grounding wires.
     
  8. nickgray

    nickgray SS.org Regular

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    It just means that the bridge reaches the ground. The bridge and the strings are grounded because you yourself act as an antenna and the pickups will get pick up that garbage when your hands are near them, but if the bridge is grounded, then the signal will go there. Every other electronic part that has metal on it has to be grounded as well, and it should be grounded in a correct way as well.
     
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  9. NoodleFace

    NoodleFace Delicious Noodles

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    Just listening to your clip I can tell it's a grounding issue
     
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  10. Lopp

    Lopp SS.org Regular

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    Thanks for the tips @nickgray and @NoodleFace

    That helped clarify there is still a ground issue.

    I checked the continuity from the pots to the jack ground and everything was connected. The best I can figure right now is there is a ground loop problem.

    Some components (possibly the pickup selector and the bridge pickup) are grounded to the bridge pickup volume pot (top in the photo) and some components (possibly the neck pickup) are grounded to the neck pickup pot (middle pot in the photo). A ground runs from the bridge pickup pot to the neck pickup pot. The output jack is grounded to the tone pot/coil split (bottom in the photo) and there is continuity between all the grounds.

    [​IMG]

    This started to get a little annoying when trying to get an owner's manual on top of all the time troubleshooting a brand new guitar. The back of the Eclipse has a sticker that indicates to go to their website to get the manual. However, the link for Support/Owner's Manual didn't work on Chrome. The FAQ is incomplete in stating:

    "I didn't get an owner's manual with my guitar / bass. How can I get one?
    You may download and print the owner's manual from our website."

    Uhhh... Thanks? How about providing a link instead of making me hunt for it?

    The link to the manual did work with Microsoft Edge (c'mon ESP, make your webpage compatible with all browsers). The owner's manual is generic to all ESPs, doesn't include a wiring diagram, and doesn't even include information on the Evertune bridge.

    The one benefit is that I am learning more about a guitar wiring, thanks in big part to all of your tips. :cheers:
     
  11. nickgray

    nickgray SS.org Regular

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    Here, check this, Seymour Duncan offers a bajillion of different schematics on the website, this should be the one that's right for you:

    [​IMG]
     
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  12. Lopp

    Lopp SS.org Regular

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    Update: ESP Customer Service responded to an inquiry about the noise. They are pretty cool and suggested taking it to Guitar Center or an ESP authorized service center. Since the GC is a few blocks away, I took it there first.

    The techs at GC are also cool guys and good for setup and other basics (at least better than myself), but not experts at every aspect of a guitar. They agreed that the Eclipse was noisy, but couldn't find any wiring issues (this was before @nickgray helpfully sent the wiring diagram and I don't know if they looked that up). They wondered if the pickup had higher output, which causes the issue, but the Pegasus is not that hot compared to my HFS in my PRS that is shown for comparison in the video and not close to as noisy and they agreed.

    The guys at GC even figured out a way to get another E-II Eclipse-7 Evertune (apparently the last one in stock) into the store to compare the two. To achieve this within the GC policies they had to process a return and then re-order it, which means I am without the Eclipse for a few days.

    Hopefully the replacement fixes the issue. If not, I'll likely take ESP up on the offer to take it to an authorized service center to find out if they can do something with the electronics to fix it because the E-II Eclipse-7 is just so nice to play, not to mention the almost complete black with white binding is beautiful to my eyes, in contrast to the current trend of fancy exotic woods and finishes. I also like the large fretboard inlays. The Evertune feature I could take or leave because I have to regularly tweak it for bending without a slight dead spot.

    To go along with how much I otherwise like the Eclipse, I had originally tried a Schecter 7 and PRS SE Mark Holcomb SVN. I originally really liked the Holcomb and was considering that as a replacement. However, I have been spoiled by the E-II Eclipse, as the Holcomb does not feel as refined. Granted, the Eclipse had Elixir nanoweb strings and the used Holcomb strings were definitely getting a little old. Even so, the E-II Eclipse seems like a more solidly built guitar.

    I'll keep you posted after the comparison model arrives.
     
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  13. NoodleFace

    NoodleFace Delicious Noodles

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    I have had some interesting guitars I've repaired the wiring on after GC replaced pickups. I get that each tech is different there though
     
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  14. Lopp

    Lopp SS.org Regular

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    Update:

    Now this is starting to have twists and turns.

    1. They got the replacement in to GC, I compared both E-II Eclipses, and they were equally noisy. Thus, it might be a design flaw or noise inherent in the pickups. The tech verified that he thought they were abnormally noisy. I decided to keep the original for the time being and consider bringing it to a local authorized ESP Service Center to see if they could do something about it.

    2. While waiting for them to process everything, I decided to try out a Strandberg 7 with Fishman pickups... It was just as noisy as the Eclipse! Is it possible that the Eclipse noise is within an acceptable limit? Both the Pegasus and the Sentinel pickups are equally noisy. Strange that it is so much noisier than my PRS HFS pickups. Also, from what I recall, my old Seymour Duncan JB pickup was not as noisy and that is a higher output pickup than the Pegasus (according to the tech specs on the Seymour Duncan website). Still, hearing the same level of noise from a different guitar with different pickups made me wonder if it is acceptable.

    3. On a whim, I searched for whether the Fishman pickups are noisy and found a guy doing the same comparison between the Fishmans on a Charvel and the HFS on a PRS as I did between the Pegasus on the Eclipse and HFS on a PRS. His video showed the Fishmans were also extra noisy:



    One of the comments even stated (machine translated from French), "After several rehearsal studio tests and store tests, all the people around me say that the noise is abnormal, the output level is too high, unusable at medium volume in crunch without noisegate."

    So torn right now because I love everything else about the E-II Eclipse-7 (although, I could take or leave the Evertune). Hoping the Service Center can shed some light beyond it being normal for that setup. Wondering if it can be fixed by replacing the pickups.

    Also, so weird that I couldn't find anything else about the Pegasus/Sentinel being noisy. Is it possible there is some wiring design flaw that is common to the Eclipse/Pegasus, the Strandberg/Fishman, and the Charvel/Fishman?
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2021
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  15. Wucan

    Wucan SS.org Regular

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    I used to own a Schecter with the 7-string Pegasus/Sentient set and they weren't noisy at all, it was pretty obvious if I plugged in the guitar and the coil split was on. If you can trust the GC people can tell whether it's properly grounded, then I can't think of much else other than the wiring being done wrong, maybe a coil was accidentally bypassed or something.
     
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  16. Lopp

    Lopp SS.org Regular

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    Thanks. That is a big help, as I am not sure if it is just me and they are just higher output than I am used to through my rig or whether there is a wiring issue.

    As mentioned, my PRS and Ibanez, which are both higher output, do not have the issue. However, after seeing the vid I linked above about a noisy Charvel with Fishman pickups, I plugged in a Charvel EVH with its own special pickup and that axe is just as noisy as the E-II Eclipse.

    I am going to take it to the ESP Service Center. Hopefully they can sort everything out.
     
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  17. angl2k

    angl2k SS.org Regular

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    I have fishman (moderns) and they do not sound noisy at all. Not that I have the gain knob maxed but it's not low either :)
     
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  18. Jeries

    Jeries Banned

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    Lopp do you mind me asking - what is the warranty like at the service center? like if its still under warranty what do you expect to pay?

    reason asking is because I also have 2 ESP and I actually need to adjust something with the fishman fluence pickup so if you don't mind, did they estimate?
     
  19. Lopp

    Lopp SS.org Regular

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    Hi Jeries, I picked up the E-II Eclipse new two weeks ago, so it is still under warranty and there should not be a charge if something needs to be fixed by the ESP Service Center (3rd Coast Guitars in Chicago - I have yet to bring it in). The techs at GC didn't charge anything for troubleshooting it (they are always very cool about just checking things, even not charging me for hours of their time researching an electronics problem with a VG Strat because they couldn't figure out how to fix it, as it is extremely complex with the modeling features).

    Sorry I couldn't be of more help with an actual price. Good luck with the Fishmans on your ESPs.
     
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  20. Jeries

    Jeries Banned

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    It’s all good - thanks for replying

    all I’m doing is switching some of the wiring up, and Mike at Fishman is really such a great guy and awesome tech agent - I should have the wires to do it next Saturday at Peekamoose!

    thanks again
     
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