Ancient Aliens

Discussion in 'Movies, Books, TV & Media' started by Adam Of Angels, Nov 4, 2010.

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  1. Adam Of Angels

    Adam Of Angels The GAS Man

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    It didn't devolve, really. Just one or two guys thinking they're hotshots stepping in for a moment - no harm.
     
  2. soliloquy

    soliloquy SS.org Regular

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    i'm not sure if this is the same as discovery channel in canada plays a lot of different stuff that usually contradicts american discovery channels (i dont wanna open a debate here, so i'll just leave it at that!)

    but on discovery canada a few days ago, they played a documentary named 'gods and aliens'. the main premiss behind the show was that the ancients were visited by aliens who wield powers of science. the links between gods such as Zeus and Poseidon are VERY similar to the characteristics of Odin and Thor, along with the gods of Indus valley, the summerians, the americas, the chinese and japanese people etc... so perhaps they all were talking about the same stuff...

    along with the heaven-kissing-hill (mt. olumpus) was supposed to be the house of the gods, but on a few different reports, it is said that the top of mount olumpus saw explosions, then the gods castle flew towards the sky (like a modern space ship) ...

    not only that, but human evolution seems to have been rushed in a VERY short amount of time. we were cave dwellers for thousands of years, but suddenly over night almost, our brains expanded three times, and within a short time, we went from making weapons to making art and the pyramids and stone henge and other stuff. the documentary was claiming that it could have been the work of the aliens as they genetically modified us...

    they also went into the birth of jesus christ (being born to a virgin) being nothing really special considering now a days we have gotten rid of the need for sex to create a baby. we can just as easily take the sperm from man A, and an egg from woman B, and put that in woman C. we have replaced sex, so perhaps the ancients had that technology too....



    is this the same concept?
     
  3. Explorer

    Explorer He seldomly knows...

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    If you're interested in the nuts and bolts of how humans began to build civilizations, here's a neat webpage:

    The Neolithic Revolution and the Birth of Civilization

    The main feature which allowed enough free time and resources for stratification and intellectual pursuits is unquestionably agriculture. The slow progression of humans to their modern form (in spite of anyone's insistence that it was almost overnight, the fossil record kind of undermines that hyperbole) is a matter of record.

    Cheers!
     
  4. -42-

    -42- Nothing to see here

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    This is the cue for Penn to jump up and yell at the top of his lungs "BULLSHIT!"
     
  5. Mr. Big Noodles

    Mr. Big Noodles Theory God

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    Wow. The whole pyramids thing? First of all, there is a clear evolution of earthen mastabas to stone mastabas to stacked mastabas (step pyramids) to smooth pyramids, so it's not like the Giza site and all the other pyramids came out of nowhere. And the mathematics involved in the construction of the Egyptian pyramids were not perfect at the outset; a number of pyramids exist that were off by a few degrees, and thus collapsed. There is even a pyramid that seems to have been re-thought during the course of its construction, because of its geometric imbalance.

    Bent Pyramid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Meidum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    It is thought that the stone for the pyramids, quarried on the east bank of the Nile, was loaded onto sleds and water or some other lubricant was placed before the sled to scoot it along to the Nile, where it was barged over to Saqqara. The big mystery is what the ramps looked like to get the stones up the pyramid, but even then, we have ruins of ramps. (There are also some fantastically preserved ramps leftover from the construction of equally impressive Hindu temples in the southern part of India.)

    How were the Pyramids built?

    Also, if the process of moving blocks up the pyramids was something that was so improbable with ancient technology, why is it that Egyptians regularly recycled stone from the pyramids for other building projects, and the Romans also readily dismantled pyramids for stone? I suppose spacemen helped Rome out, as well.

    Hawara - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    As for this precision thing and not being able to fit a dollar bill between two stones, take two 200-ton blocks of roughly square limestone, stack one on top of the other, and try to fit something between them.

    The large labor force is explained by the agricultural patterns of dynastic Egypt: the Nile would flood, people would plant, people would harvest, then the thing flooded again. When the river banks are flooded, you can't do much work, so a steady salaried job at a state construction site keeps you busy until you can go back to farming.

    Also, it seems kind of lame that all architecture in ancient Egypt is either degradable wood or gigantic stone blocks that have to be tailor-made for each application. The pharaoh Ahkenaten must have had this same thought, because he designed the city at the Tel-el-Amarna site out of modular bricks. Albeit, that didn't catch on, simply because of politics, but that just goes to show that the state style of art and architecture in Egypt heavily influenced the culture, and the culture made it possible to construct such large corporate projects as the pyramids and various necropolis temples through sheer human force.
     
  6. Adam Of Angels

    Adam Of Angels The GAS Man

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    ^ Thanks for your time, but it is almost never said that the construction methods of the pyramids are a mystery - only that the Great pyramid is a mysterious construct. It is indeed a mysterious construct.
     
  7. Cyanide_Anima

    Cyanide_Anima BLOOOOM!

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    +1 to SchecterWhore. Space Cadets seem to expect that the pyramids were in the same condition today structurally as they were thousands of years ago. Settling of the stones over time happen, squeezing them tighter together. As well as erosion of the stones from water, wind, heat, etc. All the bits of sand and eroded stone settling between them adhering to the stones. Also, Unknown does NOT equate to unknowable. Ooo, a mystery... we'll never figure THAT out! lol.

    Proponents of these ridiculous ideas can continue to baldly assert their misunderstandings of science and preach them to the gullible masses, who will continue to eat it up. Business as usual, here in human society. It's funny as you have to completely throw logic out the window, or at least compartmentalize (special pleading, anyone?) the fuck out of the ideas in order to believe this stuff.

    Countdown to backpedaling... roughly 6-12 months. They will change their stories when the date all this stuff is supposed to go down as it nears. Or they will just say we missed it. Yeah, a huge planet, swoooshing by our own and ALL of the accredited astronomers will miss it. :D

    These ideas deserve absolutely no respect or credibility until they can demonstrate that anything which they say is true. Oh, but Dave Icke & Friends are the anointed Prophets, that's right. The Aliens only come into contact with them. How convenient.
     
  8. Adam Of Angels

    Adam Of Angels The GAS Man

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    Read the post immediately before yours. We know how the majority of the pyramids were built. We could replicate them. These things can not be said about the Great Pyramid. Of course the construction methods are knowable, but they are as yet unknown, which is remarkable in this day and age.

    I don't subscribe to all of, many not even most of the ideas and theories presented on the Ancient Alien program, but not all of it is absurd. It's just as easy to disregard this stuff as bullshit as it is to blindly follow it - that's why this is a discussion.
     
  9. Cyanide_Anima

    Cyanide_Anima BLOOOOM!

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    Hahaha. I re-read this whole thread. Discussing topics like this is difficult. It's like trying to corner a greased pig. Why pin down some real info when its easier to ramble something nearly unintelligible, so one can move the goalpost later when questioned, right? Not to bully or pick anyone who think this stuff is in any way credible, but to get a straight-forward answer out of believers is extremely difficult.

    What bits do you subscribe to, Adam? What compels you to believe some of this conjecture (no, it's not even close to a theory. Skipping peer-review and going straight to the publishing house is not part of the scientific method) and not other bits? Because that is all that it is; conjecture. What qualifies as reliable evidence to you?

    (switcheroo!) What is about these ideas that you LIKE so much that compels you to defend them? See that I did there? I can present a non-argument as well! It's not at all that us non-believers hate this stuff. It's that there is NO FUCKING EVIDENCE to support the basic premises. You can't build a reliable house on a foundation of Jell-o. I think it would be awesome, personally, if there are aliens out there interested in us. But, they likely aren't out there (here and now, don't forget the dimension of time...).

    Saying that this information was sent to the ancients by 'gods' is not evidence at all. How would you go about proving this is accurate? What is more likely: that they made all this stuff up in attempt to explain what they didn't know (just like all the other ancients did...), or did aliens from another planet in our own solar system (possiblly two, wtf, lol) seed us and give us all of their knowledge in various texts spread across various languages. Is there another option that isn't just a variation of one of these two? I surely wouldn't say it was learned in a conventional sense, seeing as they had no firm methodology for discerning what's real and what isn't. They only had our (imperfect) 5 senses to go by. So, I wouldn't call that a false dichotomy.

    Hmm, beings much more powerful and knowledgable than us (such as a god, or god-like being) would likely come up with a much better way to share information than chipping away at stone tablets, or shining bright lights in our faces. Tablets, books, anthropomorphic stories ...That is an awful lot like how people share information!

    Occam's Razor, dude.

    On a side note, it's fucking hilarious how these 'theorists' interweave bits of judaism, christianity, eastern beliefs, and all the new age nonsense into these ideas. And yes, I do mock and ridicule these ideas sometimes. But, it is well deserved, IMO. When you ignore refutations, ignore actual evidence, all the while continuing to propagate your ideas dishonestly you have forfeited the privilege of respect and credulity. How much money is being made spreading these false claims all over pop culture? How many benefits do they reap taking advantage of others lack of understanding? The propagators are charlatans, or delusional. It's not much different than mainstream religion, which in a hundred years, it probably will be! Just repeat it enough and all of a sudden it becomes 'truth'.

    Then watch as all of those who believe argue over ancient texts which are nebulous, shapeless, and have to be interpreted to have any sort of 'meaning' extracted. Each group of course, having a different interpretation, splintering them into 500 different sects just like the other major belief systems. Sure, much of what I wrote in this paragraph is speculative. But, at least it is based on reliable historical records, much of it recent, much of it happening as this is being typed.

    Another side note:

    About the time thing, and alien visitors. You have to examine the large-scale while contemplating this. The universe is about 13.7 billion years old. The earth is about 4.5 billion years old. The Milky-Way galaxy is 100,000 light-years across. We are still a very young species. Using the earth and the Milky-Way as controls, let's assume that it would likely have taken another solar system a similar amount of time for intelligent life to evolve (or be seeded...oh, i keeed, I keeed...). The distance between galaxies is huge. Not to mention that the galaxies are all being "pulled apart" from each other because of the expansion of the universe, which is also accelerating faster and faster as their distance from the point of expansion increases. As far as we know, it is not possible to reach or break light-speed. It would take more energy than is contained within the universe to make a speck of dust reach the speed of light. There do no *seem* to be any planets in our celestial back-yard that are capable of harboring life, let alone evolve intelligent life. That suggests that aliens making it here would have had to transcend time and space. So in the case of time-scale, it is highly unlikely that anything has ever visited us in the past. That does not rule out the future, though. As time goes by it only becomes more and more likely that we will encounter life. It is less likely that we were visited as you go further back in time. But, hell, 6000 years isn't really that much time compared to the universe, so, maybe the point isn't that important. Oh yeah, then there are the proponents whom, when confronted with the fact that all life on the planet shares bits of DNA and claim that it's only a coincidence that we share DNA, that say that all life on earth evolved from these alien seeds. So, I guess we can go back about 1.5 billion years before us, when life started to emerge on our rock... Making their visitations even less likely. So, where would these aliens have come from? were they seeded as well? Were they sneezed out of god's nose into this petri dish we call the universe? Am I high right now? :/
     
  10. Mr. Big Noodles

    Mr. Big Noodles Theory God

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    What about them is so mysterious, though? The shape and design has a clear history and evolution, and the purposes behind their construction are found in the knowledge we have of ancient Egyptian society. Yeah, they're big and it's impressive, but these are funerary structures built for rulers who were thought to be descended from gods in a religion that puts enormous emphasis on the afterlife. They were a scientific society, a fact embodied in their mathematics, architecture, attention to nature (there are some brilliantly accurate depictions of various animal and plant species in some murals), astronomy, and medical knowledge (extending to embalming, which, at its height, resulted in fantastic preservations). They were also a mystical society that believed that the world rose out of the ocean from a big rock (which was later carved into the form of the Great Sphinx, supposedly in the likeness of the pharaoh Khafre, or his father, Khufu - talk about ego; I think its previous form may have been pyramidal, as the pyramid is a symbol of Ra), that a giant dung beetle rolled the sun over the world each day, and watched the pharaoh poo. Get a highly, highly, highly organized and centralized society, fill it with an abundant population as well as the means for its sustenance for a few thousand years, head it with powerful politician-priests, then mix up some cooky religion with all of that, and you can bet they'll make some weird shit.

    That seems to be a pattern in religious societies that command enough power - they build absurdly elaborate structures that have no pragmatic purpose. "Hey, what's that big building over there?" "It's a cathedral." "Cool. What sort of work do they do there?" "No work. It's God's house." "God? Who's that?" "A big dude who created everything." "Oh, wow. I'd like to meet him sometime." "Sorry, he's invisible and only acts in vague gestures that anyone could misconstrue as natural phenomena." "Well, I see some people walking in there. Is God having an open house?" "Oh, no, they're free to use the cathedral." "Oh, cool. So they use it for entertainment." "Nope. We wouldn't want them to disrespect God like that." "Do they eat there?" "Yes, but not enough to live on." "Well, do they study there?" "Nope. They go to sit down and listen to some guy talk about God and his son." "Are the seats at least comfy?" "What are you, Lutheran?"

    All I'm saying is that I've never heard Zahi Hawass resort to supernatural explanations. Not that I necessarily agree with Zahi Hawass 100% of the time, but Egyptology is his biz.
     
  11. Adam Of Angels

    Adam Of Angels The GAS Man

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    Pick a question and ask it - you'll not find that issue here.

    I'll say it yet again: I am a skeptic and accept none of this as absolute fact. However, contrary to what you just said, a theory is postulated when a variety of facts and pieces of evidence can be strung together and a conclusion is drawn. When there are various drawings, written descriptions and peculiar arrangments of monoliths across the planet that imply some greater understanding of reality than we assumed was possible for the Ancients to have posessed, theories can be formulated. There is no conclusive evidence one way or another concerning this stuff, so I'm not sure why you're lead to believe that people are denying the facts here.

    One of the most remarkable facts is that many of these monoliths or sacred sites are aligned geometrically across the planet - how did these ancient cultures synchronize such a feat across time and such great distance? It's not impossible, and it was obviously done, but according to what knowledge, and for what reason? I'm not implying that aliens from another planet provided the knowledge or means to do these things, but the theories are presented to explain how these things came into being, since it has NOT actually been explained.

    The thing is, you're being hypocritical in that you have no proof that "all the other ancients" just made stuff up to explain what they didn't know. This is just arrogance at it's finest. You could be right, and I'm not ruling that out, but these were humans that were every bit as capable of thought as we are. You can assume all that you want, but those assumptions are not evidence nor fact - this is the same nonsense you're accusing me of in the very same breath.

    With that said, we know that several, if not most of these cultures found significance in everything that happened in their experience. They watched the skies, the animals, theirselves, etc very closely and interpreted the events to find meaning. These were not people who were out of touch with reality - in many ways, they carried on a far more intimate relationship with reality than any of us do today. Why would it then be assumed that they just made stuff up because it sounded good? It's far far more likely that their teachings and writings have been not only mistranslated, but misunderstood. What may seem ridiculous and cracked out to us may simply be a metaphor that we misinterpret. The possibilities are many, and this why theories are formulated - not because people refuse to accept any so called "evidence".

    And you assume that what you're postulating did not possibly take place? I don't even know where this comment is coming from, since neither stone tablets nor bright lights are theoretically these beings' means of communication.


    Again, not all of those theories even make sense to begin with, but you've not been clear as to what evidence it is you're speaking of. If these people are denying evidence and solid refutation of their theories, then what are these answers you speak of?

    This is actually what I was saying earlier. There's no saying that what was written way back then was not an actual account of real events, or metaphorical descriptions of real events, or mistranslation after mistranslation after mistranslation etc.

    There are, in theory, other ways to travel vast distances. Everybody knows traveling at the speed of light is impossible. Even time travel is possible, in theory. Read up, you seem to be behind.

    It is also impossible to age the Universe with current models, even though that's irrelevant to this discussion. He'll, the big bang theory is not even proven as fact, let alone any time-frame to explain the expansion of the universe in any sort of detail.

    There are planets that could possibly harbor life in our backyard - this is news, and again, you're behind.

    If we're just now fiddling with the idea of inter-stellar travel, and even anti-gravity, imagine that there are civilizations out there that have long since mastered these abilities - perhaps even billions of years ago. They would know and be much more than we could comprehend. They could have an understanding of life that we haven't even begun to fathom and could just as well have very good reasons for visiting or reaching out to other civilizations. This is logical speculation, but its also why I opened these subjects up for discussion. It is my understanding that we (humans) are nature observing itself. We know that nature has successfully evolved to a point where it can be self-aware. Imagine a much more evolved extension of nature - imagine an extension of nature who's awareness is of such vastness that it strives to ensure the evolution of lesser forms of life from all over the galaxies.

    If you see humanity as a fluke; a random mutation, then you're not likely to open up to such a concept. If you study the brain, you'll see that we react to ideas, beliefs and concepts that differ from our own in the same way that we would react to something that threatens us. The brain detects no distinction, because what we believe dictates how we exist. So again, you may not consider that there is more to existence/consciousness than chaos and random mutation, but take note of the vast complexity of any given system in nature - notice the myriad of patterns - and take note of how it all works. It works perfectly, because there are patterns upon patterns at all levels. I don't subscribe to religious belief or the notion of a divine plan, per se, but there is definitely a vast complexity before us and it's no wonder that the ancients sought significance in everything.
     
  12. Adam Of Angels

    Adam Of Angels The GAS Man

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    SchecterWhore: once again, and read it this time: the pyramids are explainable and we know how most of them were built. However, it is The Great Pyramid at Giza that we have not explained. It can not be explained in the same ways as the rest of them can.

    Also of importance is that some pyramids were used as tombs, but the popular use was not seemingly as tombs. There are pyramids world wide, and most of them were not used as tombs. There is also no evidence that the Great Pyramid ever served as a tomb. I mean to stress this point.
     
  13. Mr. Big Noodles

    Mr. Big Noodles Theory God

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    What the fuck are you talking about? :lol:
    Tell me, how is the Great Pyramid different from the rest of Egypt's funerary pyramids, other than size? It was built in the necropolis, had a dedicated complex around it with funerary mastabas, and a couple of other dudes thought it would be cool to have their funerary pyramids built next to it. It's a tomb, dude.

    I'm also aware that not all pyramids of the world were not used as tombs. I personally think it would support the "aliens made 'em" hypothesis more if there was some homogeneity in the function of pyramids, but whatever. The fact that there is similarity in form between pyramids of different cultures (insomuch as that they are pyramidal) does not surprise me - it's a pretty basic geometric form, and it's an easy way to build tall stuff without special materials. Ever wonder why there are no skyscrapers built completely of brick and mortar? It's the same reason you don't see tall, rectangular structures in ancient civilizations: they'd fall over.

    And, yes, we're not sure of what the construction method was for the Cheops/Khufu pyramid, but we're hardly dealing with perfect information with any of this stuff, because the thing is so old and a lot of records are lost or incomplete. However, like I said, when you mix fervent religion into a strict monarchy with a god as a leader, people accomplish some pretty outstanding tasks.
     
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  14. Celiak

    Celiak SS.org Regular

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    I'm not sure...
    My problem is that there is no physical evidence of the aliens. I know if they are that advanced they could probably get rid of it. However, why would they come and have such a profound effect on our history only to get rid of all physical evidence of them being here?

    Personally what it would take for me to accept a lot of this would be a skeleton or some remains from an alien visitor.



    For whatever reason this was built, that is really cool.
     
  15. Cyanide_Anima

    Cyanide_Anima BLOOOOM!

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    Ok. One at a time.

    -"However, contrary to what you just said, a theory is postulated when a variety of facts and pieces of evidence can be strung together and a conclusion is drawn."

    That is called a hypothesis. It can only earn the badge of theory when it is tested over and over by many different scientists not only testing their hypothesis, but the methodology as well. How does that prove that peer review isn't needed? When we become emotionally invested in our work, its integrity becomes compromised. Look at many great minds who've fallen because their ego disliked their 'theories' being put under the microscope. Tesla is a good example.

    -"When there are various drawings, written descriptions and peculiar arrangments of monoliths across the planet that imply some greater understanding of reality than we assumed was possible for the Ancients to have posessed, theories can be formulated. There is no conclusive evidence one way or another concerning this stuff, so I'm not sure why you're lead to believe that people are denying the facts here."

    Again, that would be called speculation, or maybe a hypothesis. Just assuming they didn't understand something doesn't equate to some outside source. There is no evidence of the things they drew which we interpret as aliens, or spacecraft ever existed. It is more likely the objects were characterized or exaggerated in appearance. As they often did. Humans with Raven heads, for example, or the sun with nice wavy lines everywhere, chariots riding across the sky, etc. Way back in the day all we knew was us, so we attached an identity to almost everything. There is also a lot of pareidolia going on. We see things in terms of what we know and our brains interpret it accordingly. Kermit on mars or the face on mars, for example.

    The accuracy of the Egyptians was great, yes, but it is exaggerated to its extent.

    BBC News | SCI/TECH | Pyramids lined up with the stars

    So they built all that to be accurate, only to lose it's accuracy so soon. Quite possibly before it was even finished. Just noting how accurate something was built, or that corridors and passageways are aligned with stars, doesn't imply an outside influence at all. There really doesn't appear that anything foreign is going on here, neither is it some sort of 'sign'. The whole giza flat isn't aligned to one specific time either, the alignments of the objects are spanned across thousands of years.

    -"The thing is, you're being hypocritical in that you have no proof that "all the other ancients" just made stuff up to explain what they didn't know. This is just arrogance at it's finest. You could be right, and I'm not ruling that out, but these were humans that were every bit as capable of thought as we are. You can assume all that you want, but those assumptions are not evidence nor fact - this is the same nonsense you're accusing me of in the very same breath. "

    You've misunderstood what I was saying. I was saying that the concept of ancient astronauts was made up, no the knowledge of the ancients. Though, the ancients did make up quite elaborate stories to go along with their astronomical observations. Capable of every bit of thought as we are today? LULZ. No, this simply isn't true. They didn't understand a fraction of what we know today. They had some science, yes, but the ancients were ruled in most part by their own superstition. Arrogance at it's finest? C'mon, man. Ad-hom's do not qualify as an argument. And honestly, you just walk past most arguments presented to you and present something which only marginally relates (if that) to what you're supposed to be rebutting against. That last bit doesn't even make sense. I don't think you understood what I was saying.

    -"With that said, we know that several, if not most of these cultures found significance in everything that happened in their experience. They watched the skies, the animals, theirselves, etc very closely and interpreted the events to find meaning. These were not people who were out of touch with reality - in many ways, they carried on a far more intimate relationship with reality than any of us do today. Why would it then be assumed that they just made stuff up because it sounded good? It's far far more likely that their teachings and writings have been not only mistranslated, but misunderstood. What may seem ridiculous and cracked out to us may simply be a metaphor that we misinterpret. The possibilities are many, and this why theories are formulated - not because people refuse to accept any so called "evidence"."

    Interpret is the key word here. We are pattern seeking animals, if we want to find meaning in something, we will find it. There are people who find meaning in video games. Video. Games. I'm pretty sure that we understand most of the Egyptian, Hebrew, Sanskrit, Aramaic, Greek, Latin, and other ancient languages pretty well. We have things, like the rosetta stone! We have reliable methods for translating many ancient languages. To say that we have lost the true meaning of what is in the ancient writings could be true yes, because we were not there. Much of the culture is lost, so some of their colloquialisms and certain subtleties are lost because they weren't documented, or were simply not preservable. So, we fill in the gaps with our prospective, which is 'useless'. Nice scare quotes! You still don't describe your 'interpretation' of evidence. :/

    -"And you assume that what you're postulating did not possibly take place? I don't even know where this comment is coming from, since neither stone tablets nor bright lights are theoretically these beings' means of communication. Again, not all of those theories even make sense to begin with, but you've not been clear as to what evidence it is you're speaking of. If these people are denying evidence and solid refutation of their theories, then what are these answers you speak of?"

    Reductio Ad Absurdum. When talking about aliens giving us tablets and communicating with lights, I was being deliberately absurd to prove a point. These are absolutely absurd claims, and require an extraordinary amount of evidence to support, again, of which there isn't any. "We don't know this..." or "I feel..." or "We don't know why they..." doesn't mean one can plug in whatever explanation they feel comfortable with. You have said that most of these 'theories' do not make sense, yet you continue to backpedal and defend it. When I talk about evidence, in the case of those who promote the idea of ancient astronauts have no evidence. It is not up to me to prove them wrong, it is up to them to provide evidence to support it. It sure is fun poking holes though! And the super defensive reactions are almost evidence that they do not wish for their ideas to be looked at further, they want them to be just accepted. "What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." Hitchens is the man, lol.

    -"There are, in theory, other ways to travel vast distances. Everybody knows traveling at the speed of light is impossible. Even time travel is possible, in theory. Read up, you seem to be behind."

    Yes, we have ion drives currently in use. But they are very slow to start. Good thing they can slowly accelerate most of the way toward their destination. These are the fruits of science, and so-called 'only theories'. If the fundamentals of physics as we know were wrong, most of the things we take for granted today would not work. No GPS. No atomic clock. No visits to mars. No video games. No Djent. We'd be in the stone age, worshipping the sun and... wait a sec... hehe.

    -"It is also impossible to age the Universe with current models, even though that's irrelevant to this discussion. He'll, the big bang theory is not even proven as fact, let alone any time-frame to explain the expansion of the universe in any sort of detail."

    Really, impossible? Says Who? Where do you get this information. We have good methods for figuring this stuff out. The methods get more refined and more accurate (thanks to that thing called Peer Review I was talking about...) and that number of 13.7b gets more decimal places ever year.

    -"There are planets that could possibly harbor life in our backyard - this is news, and again, you're behind."

    If I'm not mistaken the objects which we have recently found which appear to possibly harbor life is speculation. There isn't solid data on this yet. The press loves to jump to interesting conclusions on things like this, unfortunately.

    -"If we're just now fiddling with the idea of inter-stellar travel, and even anti-gravity, imagine that there are civilizations out there that have long since mastered these abilities - perhaps even billions of years ago. They would know and be much more than we could comprehend. They could have an understanding of life that we haven't even begun to fathom and could just as well have very good reasons for visiting or reaching out to other civilizations. This is logical speculation, but its also why I opened these subjects up for discussion. It is my understanding that we (humans) are nature observing itself. We know that nature has successfully evolved to a point where it can be self-aware."

    Logical speculation? What an oxy-moron. Yes, we are nature observing itself, as Carl Sagan put it. Physical components of the universe arranged in such a way to create complex chemical bonds from the bottom up (not top down...). Nature being self aware? As in nature or the universe having a conscience of its own? Quite a 'theory'.

    -"Imagine a much more evolved extension of nature - imagine an extension of nature who's awareness is of such vastness that it strives to ensure the evolution of lesser forms of life from all over the galaxies."

    That is the most interesting statement you've posted in this thread. Almost Sagan-esque. But imagining things does not make them true. That is a projective statement, but interesting none-the-less. Why would one form of life want to ensure the existence of other forms of life if it didn't directly benefit them? Look at life here on earth, it's every beast for himself. The more advanced societies eat the lesser ones. Hawking would suggest that aliens would be more likely to want our resources and take them because of their scarcity in the universe. You could call that projective I suppose, but at least it has a foundation of which we can draw data from

    -"If you see humanity as a fluke; a random mutation, then you're not likely to open up to such a concept. If you study the brain, you'll see that we react to ideas, beliefs and concepts that differ from our own in the same way that we would react to something that threatens us. The brain detects no distinction, because what we believe dictates how we exist. So again, you may not consider that there is more to existence/consciousness than chaos and random mutation, but take note of the vast complexity of any given system in nature - notice the myriad of patterns - and take note of how it all works. It works perfectly, because there are patterns upon patterns at all levels. I don't subscribe to religious belief or the notion of a divine plan, per se, but there is definitely a vast complexity before us and it's no wonder that the ancients sought significance in everything."

    Yes we do react to things we do not believe! We tend to protect ideas which we already possess, and reject outside information. And those who already live in the clouds, or have superstitious, supernatural, or extraordinary beliefs are more prone to believing other things of that nature as well. The whole "open-minded" argument is a complete non-sequitur and a form of ad-hominem, though you might not be aware of that. Being gullible is a virtue in our society. "If open of your mind too much, your brain will fall out" - Tim Minchin. Scientists have standards for evidence, if one cannot meet these standards one cannot call what they are doing science. It really is that simple!

    There is nothing that suggests we are anything more than a coincidence. Other life in the universe would likely be the same. Saying that everything works perfectly is not true. The universe is pretty chaotic. The universe is actively trying to kill us. Cosmic radiation, solar flares, astroids, meteors, volcanos, earthquakes, floods, interplanetary collisions (...), heat death, gamma rays, microwaves, micro-meteoroids, pulsars, black wholes, quasars, wandering black holes, comets, dying stars, supernova, solar mass ejection, I could go on. The universe is not a happy place well-suited for life. There are very small pockets spread over the universe that even have a chance at single-celled life.

    Again, look for a pattern in just about anything, and we'll find it. Numerology is a prime example of that. I could point out many fallacies in other places here, but you and others might accuse me of fallacy hunting. I can't believe I responded to some of these arguments, many are quite poor, or repetitious fallacies made over and over.

    It is irresponsible of the History Channel to credulously air these programs without appropriate scrutiny. They are slowly becoming the "Fox News" of history.
     
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  16. Kavnar

    Kavnar SS.org Regular

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    There's no way this thread's still active. :noplease:
     
  17. gunshow86de

    gunshow86de Beef Jerky Time

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    ^

    The ancient aliens are keeping it alive.

    [​IMG]
     
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  18. Spondus

    Spondus SS.org Regular

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    While you are in the right, I'd give up if I were you. Adam once ceaselessly
    tried to tell me that there was no oxygen in the DNA of anaerobic microbes.
     
  19. Adam Of Angels

    Adam Of Angels The GAS Man

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    Completely inaccurate statement, that's not at all what i had argued n that debate.

    As for the large wall of text, I just haven't responded yet - dude missed almost all of my points
     
  20. Spondus

    Spondus SS.org Regular

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    While that's an interesting interpretation of the discussion, I have better things to do than argue with you again.
     
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