Would I enjoy a live concert as a silent one throught a headphone ? Nope. I like to feel the sound filling the space and my body. Same goes for my amps. Just love the feeling of the amp-in-the-room. Then again. Im only playing for myself. If I would record a lot, I can see that maybe the amp in the room wouldn't be as important in this scenario. I just like to get inspired by the shitty guitar speaker filling the room with sound.
"Amp in the room" tone doesn't matter. Or does it?
- Thread starter Deadpool_25
- Start date
Thaeon
Probably diddling an Oni
But is that supposed to be new information? I just don't see why "dial up your gear for the situation you're in" is interesting, or at the very least, worthy of some sort of "myth busting" style video. It's a big contrast from his previous videos that actually explored topics that people actually argue about, and attempted to present some evidence to persuade people. I honestly don't know who this video is for.
Next up, "Here's something that all YouTube guitarists get wrong! The "e" in forte is silent outside of musical contexts!" .
Dude, I definitely agree. It’s not revolutionary in the least. But lots of guitar players don’t think think about it when going into a studio or playing a gig. And the result is a shitty sounding performance. And to be fair…. I do hear the argument against his perspective plenty. Not necessarily here. But other places. People here like to record and are very open to digital. Which factors speakers, mics, preamps, etc. I think that colors perception of the topic here a bit.
Rock & Roll card: revoked.
Thaeon
Probably diddling an Oni
Did I ever claim to have one?
MoistTowelette
SS.org Regular
imo too many people gassed him up in his earlier vids that popped off so now he feels that he has to preach some profound truth that really isn't profound
TedEH
Cromulent
Except that doesn't really happen. I've never seen anyone stand in front of the mains to dial in their amp through the whole PA chain. It would be useless anyway, since the sound guy is likely to change it after you've done your setup. You dial the amp for stage sound, and the PA adapts, not the other way around. I've always understood the pink noise thing to be about feedback suppression.
Why do we keep saying this? It's entirely untrue. Anyone who has played a cab in a room knows, pretty intuitively, what will happen when you move around the cab - it generally gets darker the more off-axis you get, and the farther away you go. Everyone knows the whole "back it into a corner for more bass" thing. If your room is such a poor listening environment that results are rAnDoM and unpredictable at any given point, then your room sucks and will have the exact same problematic effect on a played-back recording.
I thought it was the best part of the video.
-Cetanu-
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I agree. I'm probably in a minority here but the tone that influenced and mattered to me the most was coming from an amp and cab in the room not a recording.
Made it worse to me. 🤣I thought it was the best part of the video.
RevDrucifer
SS.org Regular
This guy has been watching too many Glen Fricker videos.
It seems the new goal is who can make a video that turns forums into FB/blabbermouth comment sections.
Jon Pearson
SS.org Regular
I'm actually on team "room sound" but I do tend to check out the sound coming out of the mains to make sure stuff is coming together nicely. Usually I talk with the sound guy about any tweaks I'm thinking about making to see if he can get it from the board, but sometimes I have actually tweaked the amp to adjust (it's always the damn presence). One of the advantages of doing the prog metal thing is that usually the sound guy is as geeked about guitar tone as the player
In general, for club gigs (which likely makes up a very large percentage of gigging musicians' gigs), I've found it pretty hard to completely eliminate the "in the room" element from a guitar cabinet anyways, so it does end up being important. Even if you are micced up, the guitar amp is usually loud enough to be heard over the PA if you are close to the stage. Hell, when I saw BTBAM at the NC State Fair they were playing an ARENA and the sound coming off the front of the stage could still easily be heard if you were close to the front. I spent most the gig in front of Dustie's rig geeking over how humungous his guitar sounded.
TedEH
Cromulent
Another point for room-tone just because I can:
Mic placement is finicky, and in smaller venues the PA is serving as support, not your whole sound - which means both that you're hearing a lot of the direct cab anyway, but if your mic gets bumped and suddenly your PA sound is junk or gone, you still need the amp to sound good.
Mic placement is finicky, and in smaller venues the PA is serving as support, not your whole sound - which means both that you're hearing a lot of the direct cab anyway, but if your mic gets bumped and suddenly your PA sound is junk or gone, you still need the amp to sound good.
Thaeon
Probably diddling an Oni
If you bump the mic, it takes all of 5 seconds to get it back on the cone. If the mic falls out of the clip, 10 seconds. Regardless, it’s as fast or faster than fixing any other rig issues. I see this reasoning as an excuse more than anything. I’ve gigged a lot of great amps, and a lot of shit amps. All of them sound better on stage through a wedge than off the cab.
most of my guitar life I've played through cab sims/IRs playing/practicing with mixed records, or programmed drums/bass. while standing in front of cranked tube amp with one or two 4x12s is definitely fun, I can mimic that tone, to some extent, by blending dynamic + ribbon mic IR's through studio monitors with sub providing the low end. but none of that really matters. I've learned when jamming with the others, or with the recordings, that what matters the most is - can you hear yourself without overpowering the rest of the band? When the tone is tweaked in the way you can hear yourself without pushing to much volume, usually it sounds good in the room, in front of the house and recorded without any voodoo done by the sound guys. Distorted guitar sounds the best in the band mix, when drums, bass and guitar lock together, IMO
TedEH
Cromulent
Taking a full 10 seconds to stop mid-song is kinda brutal. The show must go on, and if my cab sound is good enough to keep me from having to stop, that IMO comes off more professional than being inaudible for a chunk of time. And you're not going to end up in the same spot, so you gatta hope your sound guy is on the ball re-balancing it or it's going to sound awful.
BillK
SS.org Regular
It wasn't tone, Newstead's problem on AJFA...
TheBlackBard
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It wasn't tone, Newstead's problem on AJFA...
This person has to be trolling to not know that; it's been extremely well documented, especially in Metallica's history.
Thaeon
Probably diddling an Oni
From experience, most of the time this can be fixed by scooting it with your foot or stopping just long enough to move the boom. You don’t have to stop playing to identify the problem. And often you don’t have to stop to fix it.
As far as the sound guy is concerned, it’s their job to be able to adjust on the fly. If they can’t get it readjusted quickly they shouldn’t be running sound. And if any micro adjustment needs to be made to position over the cone, plenty sound guys will run up on stage and handle it mid performance.
Equipment failure and accidents are a common part of the live environment. There are plenty venues where I live and within an hour that local bands play, where your amp will not compete with the PA. And if you’re trying, it sounds like wet dogshit. There are a few local bands here that have 200 watt full stacks running full tilt so you can ‘feel’ the sound. They’re pushing past the PA and it’s clipping your ear drums with hearing protection in. Granted these dudes show up to the club smelling like a skunk soaked in lime juice. Setting your equipment so that the PA can do the heavy lifting, and just generating enough sound to get a full tone is more than enough, and will get the best sound. If there’s no PA, then you have to make do. But I generally won’t play a venue that can’t appropriately accommodate a live band. I scope venues out before I book shows and talk to the bands playing about stage sound and such. I want to sound good. I want to be able to hear a mix on stage. And I like playing venues that treat bands well. I avoid promoters, preferring to book myself or join shows other bands put together at venues I like. It’s more work. But it’s also more fun. I don’t play out as often with my original bands, but that’s worth it to me. A killer show every three to six months is better to me than a shitty or average show once a month.
TL;DR
Presentation matters. I do everything I can to ensure the best performance possible, and if I can fix it and save the sound guy a few seconds in the process, I will. Probably part of why I get invited back to venues frequently even when I draw a smaller crowd.
Misunderstanding, I'm not saying do that to the guitar, but calbirating the PA. Once the PA is calibrated then you can do whatever you want with any method really. The real time/ pink noise stuff is for trying to flatten/ balance/ calibrate everything. If you have a guitar dominant sound then from there the channel on the PA can sculpt guitar a bit but the main system/ buss is still calibrated/flat to the amps. That whatever you put into it is represented as accurate as possible.Except that doesn't really happen. I've never seen anyone stand in front of the mains to dial in their amp through the whole PA chain. It would be useless anyway, since the sound guy is likely to change it after you've done your setup. You dial the amp for stage sound, and the PA adapts, not the other way around. I've always understood the pink noise thing to be about feedback suppression.
Why do we keep saying this? It's entirely untrue. Anyone who has played a cab in a room knows, pretty intuitively, what will happen when you move around the cab - it generally gets darker the more off-axis you get, and the farther away you go. Everyone knows the whole "back it into a corner for more bass" thing. If your room is such a poor listening environment that results are rAnDoM and unpredictable at any given point, then your room sucks and will have the exact same problematic effect on a played-back recording.
I thought it was the best part of the video.
Demiurge
SS.org Regular
I can't decide- is this a philosophical question about what the actual sound of the guitar is (is it what you hear in the room? is it what someone in an audience hears in that room? is it a recording at the cabinet? is it a recording of the room?) or is this a gussied-up acknowledgement that for all the futzing-about we do with our signal chain, there is further context that goes unconsidered?
I'm in the same boat as all the bedroom players. What I hear there is all I know. I mostly play a hollowbody guitar into an amp kept at reasonable volume, so I'm hearing both the acoustics of the instrument and of the amp- which I find pleasant. But if I mic that cab or run into an I/R, I know that it will be a different from what I hear.
I'm in the same boat as all the bedroom players. What I hear there is all I know. I mostly play a hollowbody guitar into an amp kept at reasonable volume, so I'm hearing both the acoustics of the instrument and of the amp- which I find pleasant. But if I mic that cab or run into an I/R, I know that it will be a different from what I hear.
I think going for studio sound live is the goal, but not possible, and even so is still better sometimes just because it's loud. Any decent sound guy is going to balance the PA unless their just lazy. Obviously speaker and room limits aren't going to make it like a studio recording, but still the same concepts go into live as it does with tracking minus the PA adjustments. - I still like best a band with it's own gear in a garage sized room with a higher ceiling if possible and a small PA with a sub, and having the loudness based around the loudest parts of a drummer killing it. When everone can hear everything how they want using monitors/gobos or not and it's all setup, nothing will ever beat that. To me that's like a 1:1 ratio of ideal. Everyone is happy and it's as minimum as it gets.
