About the Carvin / Kiesel news

Discussion in 'Sevenstring Guitars' started by HaloHat, Jan 20, 2015.

  1. Suho

    Suho Guitar Guardian Contributor

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    The name recognition, which has gotten a huge boost lately, is for Carvin. It doesn't make sense to keep some as Carvin and rebrand others as Kiesel if they are essentially all the same. Saying that the "extra" options makes something a Kiesel as opposed to a Carvin seems odd. I know the explanation floating around WAS that they are all Carvins, except special options are entitled to be called Kiesel as well, but the split in corporations and the most recent press statements seem to clearly indicate that is not how the brand(s) are going to be handled going forward.

    Also, using your logic why continue using the brand name "Jackson" after Grover left, or why call them "Dean" after Zelinsky left, or "Fender" after Leo sold out...?


    @Celticelk: I think that is a wry and perceptive point you make, and very likely to be true.
     
  2. Electric Wizard

    Electric Wizard guy incognito

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    I have no idea what you're saying, that is exactly the opposite of my logic. Jackson, Zelinsky, and Fender didn't leave on the same kind of terms, they sold the companies along with the rights to the brand's names. I already threw out a couple reasons why using an established brand name is beneficial.

    With the two different trademarks, Kiesel Guitars can take advantage of whatever worth the Carvin name had, as well as establish the new brand. At the end of the day, I think it's an ego thing as the Carvin name is derived from people that have nothing to do with the guitars. They were fortunate in splitting to be able to hang onto the Carvin trademark and know well enough to continue using it for what people know as Carvins. There's no rebranding though (save for the SCB), the new stuff is literally not a Carvin.

    Regarding Kiesel Guitars vs "Kiesel Edition", yeah I don't like that either. I get the difference but it's not an elegant way of doing it, too repetitive.
     
  3. blaxquid

    blaxquid SS.org Regular

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    Good marketing/accounting decision IMO. Excited to see what comes out of it.
     
  4. TemjinStrife

    TemjinStrife Power Metal Cellist

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    Dude, Carvin's resale value has been awful for *years.* This isn't going to change that.
     
  5. Chokey Chicken

    Chokey Chicken mouth breather

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    Look at it this way. How often have you heard the name Kiesel before recently? How many people on this forum, or out and about on stage and stuff have you heard of/seen rocking out a Kiesel guitar?

    Carvin on the other hand is a pretty common name around here, and they're played by artists. By default now, anyone looking into Carvin will stumble onto Kiesel. Instead of starting from scratch, now everyone who's heard of/is interested in Carvin, has now heard of Kiesel.

    On top of that people generally hate change, even if it's for the better. (until they settle in and it changes again.) So people can still have their DC700's and what have you with the Carvin logo, while the company moves on in it's preferred direction of creating new models with the Kiesel logo.

    Given what I've seen/heard recently, I think people are getting worked up over nothing. We just gotta give it time and see what they do. I have no doubts that Carvin/Kiesel will be a fantastic thing a year from now, just as they are today.
     
  6. BucketheadRules

    BucketheadRules Fuzz pedal hoarder

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    F*ckf*ckf*ckf*ckf*ckf*ck as a UK resident I might finally be able to viably afford a V220 or a Holdsworth Fatboy... SQUEALING WITH DELIGHT.
     
  7. simonXsludge

    simonXsludge (((Ω)))

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    I kinda see it as being similiar to what Ibanez are doing with Prestige vs. J.Custom. Even if that's not a perfectly accurate comparison, it might help put things into perspective a little bit?!

    I don't see why any of this would be bad. You can still get the huge selection of Carvins you're used to - and new models and special editions designed and/or built by Jeff Kiesel that will be branded as such. The differences will become more and more apparent over time and people will get used to it... more variation is a good thing as long as it isn't at cost of the quality. And I don't see why that would be the case.
     
  8. MetalThrasher

    MetalThrasher Thrash & Burn

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    I can't wait to get one of the new headless 7's when they come out! As an owner of a few Carvins I would like to have the Kiesel name on a future guitar! Carvin really seems to be steeping up to the plate lately!
     
  9. Hollowway

    Hollowway Extended Ranger

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    Yeah, I think this is exactly the case. Existing Carvin guitar model sales will likely result in money in every family member's pocket. But new design sales will only go to the new corp (Jeff and Mark).
    I doubt the family would have permitted Jeff and Mark to buy out the Carvin guitar line in its entirety, unless it would be for an astronomical amount. This way everyone keeps getting income from the guitars, and Mark and Jeff can continue to develop new models.

    If that is the case, though, I think we will see a lack of development on the Carvin models, and less "energy" behind them, likely resulting in diminished sales and prices. And I would think that there would have to be some sort of clause in the agreement between the brothers that Mark and Jeff cannot create models that would directly compete against the existing Carvin models, lest they do that just so marginalized the Carvin brand, and therefore beep a higher percentage of guitar sales.
     
  10. Alex6534

    Alex6534 SS.org Regular

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    If I can get these in the UK for similar price in the US, goodbye all my ibbys! Got a dc727 this year 2nd hand and I'm beyond hooked.
     
  11. electriceye

    electriceye SS.org Regular

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    As I said in the other forum, this makes zero sense. For them to think this won't cause any confusion is either delusion or pure PR spin.

    Keep the Carvin name for guitars and do another name for the audio side of the business. The name is already well established and changing it/adding a second name for a premier line is just stupid. You can already see the confusion here in this thread, for crying out loud.

    Someone mentioned this seemed to be the company moving towards more of a PRS business model. However, no matter what PRS model you buy, it ALWAYS says PRS on the headstock.

    This is a dangerous move by the Kiesels, IMO. I have my popcorn ready.
     
  12. HeHasTheJazzHands

    HeHasTheJazzHands greg rulz ok

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    Not the private stocks.

    You can choose either the PRS logo or...

    [​IMG]

    Similar to what Carvin/Kiesel is doing.
     
  13. electriceye

    electriceye SS.org Regular

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    But that's STILL a PRS logo, which is immediately identifiable (never seen that before!). And, whoa, do you have more pics of that? Never seen a stained quilt board before.
     
  14. MBMoreno

    MBMoreno SS.org Regular

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    I don't see PRS Private Stock vs PRS discussions like this. I think thats what Jeff has in mind with this Kiesel Guitars thing, a private stock, something more "elite".
     
  15. HaloHat

    HaloHat 7 string Baritones

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    Check out the Carvin and after Feb 1st the Kiesel Guitars website...
     
  16. mr_ormus777

    mr_ormus777 Grey Alien

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    "However, Carvin Guitars and Kiesel Guitars plans to soon begin handling overseas sales of all of its instruments directly. This move will cut down costs for consumers, according Jeff Kiesel."
    This makes me very warm and fuzzy since I started buying Carvin direct from them originally!!!
    :cool:
     
  17. russmuller

    russmuller Cramblin' Contributor

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  18. Dusty Chalk

    Dusty Chalk SS.org Regular

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    To me, this seems like the first step in a rebranding, and a very careful first step at that. There might be some devaluation of pre-split Carving guitars, and even of Carvin guitars themselves, but I think most of us (guitarists, not just sso.org) have a keen eye for value/$, so I doubt it'll be much.

    It's also a feeler as to how much we'll buy in. He just doesn't know how successful the rebranding will be. Seems pretty optimistic, though, so from a PR perspective, I think he's playing his cards just right.

    The transparency is fogging refreshing, I must say.
     
  19. Andromalia

    Andromalia Pardon my french

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    If I got it right, the *slight* difference is that the Kiesel and Carvin money don't go into the same pockets, hence all that ruckus.

    Now, if that distributor thing is true, that opens some possibilities.
     
  20. Rashputin

    Rashputin SS.org Regular

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    As a owner of both a "Kiesel Edition" 8-string (the koa one recently posted on their facebook etc.), a Carvin Elite DC727 and a regular Carvin DC727, I have to say they are all ....ing perfect. The precision of the machines combined with top notch craftsmanship is hard to beat.

    Jeff knows what todays demanding players are looking for, and he comes up with some absolutely stunning instruments. If this "split" lets him come up with more models and options, I'm all for it. This is in essence a return to the company's roots. A lot of companies like Ernie Ball Music Man and PRS are stepping up their game with some seriously premium instruments, and this move by Jeff & will ensure that Carvin is right up there with the top builders when it comes to quality and features.

    :shred:
     

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