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Discussion in 'Extended Range Guitars' started by HeHasTheJazzHands, Nov 7, 2015.
The issues they did have were worse than compounds.
Just gonna ignore the rest eh?
I mean if we're being real here, all 2019 NAMM info starts pouring into this thread on page 134. And funnily enough you tried giving credit to Frank for everything sans paint job until Tosin clarified that the only Frank build was in fact the Space Tele.
Then all the flaws you're referencing are posted on page 137. And the reception to what are minor but definitely unacceptable flaws, is pretty lukewarm. Because if we're comparing leftover plastic and minor paint mishaps (see below) to the guitars Frank thought were acceptable to ship across seas, they're absolutely minor in comparison.
Minor enough that quite a few folks say they aren't deal breakers considering these were probably rushed NAMM builds all of which are seemingly being played by Tosin or artists he's signing on. I got to hold and play the Wine Red 7 that went to Taranto and that Multiscale Blue 6, and there was some minor fret sprout but nothing I could immediately point out, they were pretty awesome guitars. Everyone likes to talk about fretwork, but they'll stay silent when their exotic fretboard custom shrinks in the winter if they live in an area that experiences a winter, and they'll have to take it to a trusted person to file the ends down.
So yeah, please reference the wealth of information in the thread instead of just commenting vaguely and weirdly portraying events and people differently than how they were.
For reference @iWantedAnAbasi cited a 5 - 8 week turnaround time directly from Frank
Most all of the guitars at NAMM had Frank's heel, not Grover's. They were built by Frank and finished by Grover, or did you miss that whole thing about Grover changing the neck heel and details of the top carve? Tosin was not being honest there, like they're not being honest about the delays. There was more that just finish flaws in those guitars, there was bad fretwork, bad neck scrapes (which Frank got a ton of crap for by the way), and just obvious signs of rushing all over.
How do you bring guitars with fret sprout to NAMM? Shrinking is one thing, doing nothing about it for NAMM? Fretboards don't shrink like that overnight, and winter NAMM is in the same part of the country, the weather didn't change suddenly.
It's nice to see the excuse phase of Abasi 2.0 is well under way though They really should be quoting realistic build times, that is the crux of the matter here (and 5-8 weeks is not realistic either, for reference Collings quotes 3-6 months for electrics, 6 months for acoustics, and they have a massive factory with over 100 employees). That video showed they're actually way behind. You want to bring everything else into it, be my guest, but I'm not going to keep rehashing after this, as my comment that spurred this thread had nothing to do with Frank and everything to do with the current reality of Abasi Guitars. Bridge hardware and pickups is not a hold up at the point these guitars are at, they certainly know how the guitars go together with the bridges already, so even if it were delayed, they can get all the way to the end of the build without it. They showed they're still over a month away on even the most complete builds in that video. Enough with the whataboutism already.
Lotta upset over guitars that haven't hit the market yet...
Any proof of any of those statements? I don't intend on spending more of my saturday on he said she said with you if the discussion is going nowhere. It's pretty hilarious that you're blaming Tosin for being dishonest when he's plainly thrown out that statement, so if he is in fact lying that should be an easy thing to prove if you have any basis to absolutely deny what he stated.
I find it hard to believe the folks of SSO missed all those things you're pointing out when their booth was as crowded as it was and all the builds were on open view 360 degrees for open photography. I'm also not making excuses for Grover/Abasi, see below since you're forgetting my stance.
The proof to that statement is that they made a big deal about the neck heel changing. Why would Grover make guitars with the old heel when they made it a point to change it? The proof to the bridges and pickup statement is that they've put together these guitars, they know how everything fits already. They are through prototyping. They made a video that doesn't show a single guitar in finish, and if I remember correctly not even a fretboard glued up.
A lot of people miss a lot of problems, not everyone has a trained eye or knows what to look for. There were plenty of people who didn't miss them, that's why we have picture evidence.
Who knows, I certainly don't but it could very well have been builds developed prior to producing that new heel being used to fill their booth. High probability when there were issues apparent when builds are rushed to put together a booth at a trade show, but I have no evidence to back that up and neither do you to disprove the claim Tosin made evidently. So we're going off of assumptions at this point.
And I'm gonna hit you with a hard doubt that we missed those issues you're referencing that weren't photographed. I spoke to my experience and that's all I can provide contextually, all I'm saying is to give the new folks the same opportunity to deliver builds before we tear them apart. Something you gave your friend completely, but you're at the ready to shit on the successors for a single delay when Frank didn't deliver a single customer guitar and missed the mark on a 5 - 8 week lead time
There were many builds in progress when Tosin ransacked Frank's shop, many of those made it to NAMM. I don't have any more to say on this. The reality is what it is.
Ok we get it, these got screwed up last time around and man I hope these don't go down in flames this time around.
Everything proceed to goes down in flames
So, the Grover builds are screwed up? I may have gotten lost in the recent discussion, but I always thought Grover Jackson was a well respected, and good, luthier.
People are arguing over whether the Grover builds are too far behind schedule and whether this is somehow comparable to the Falbo situation.
Ah, ok. But the builds themselves, as far as we can tell, are good?
Yep. I watched the video. As far as I can tell everything looks fine; guitars should be fine. I’m not privy to what any of their setbacks or delays are about, but there’s nothing alarming in the video.
Several people sent me photos and video of the stuff at NAMM, and I know what I saw with my own eyes, but I wouldn’t put NAMM rush guitars under equal scrutiny as production guitars.
NeoCon is a giant furniture show in Chicago this next week. The slap-together, not-yet-ready-for-prime-time pieces that wont be ready for a year has become a meme. Prototypes held together with duct tape and hot glue, pieces Express overnight air-freighted for thousands of dollars and showing up minutes before the show, etc. Some of them never even get to production.
If only namm was on the same dates and same place every year, boy that would make things easier..............
Some of the Grover builds (supposedly) were at NAMM and they had flaws, I believe that's where that part of the conversation came from.
Grover is obviously very respected and very accomplished, there's no arguing that. That said I *have* heard some complaints about the GJ2 line, so it's not far fetched.
I'm personally staying out of that between not being a customer, loathing armchair QC analysis and deep respect for everyone involved. I'm just mentioning it for those who've not heard/followed it before. I will say that 40 years of history would indicate it's silly to imply Grover Jackson doesn't know how to make a guitar, so my inclination would be that there's a lot of hands at work in his shop these days and limited oversight, but that speculation.
I think the official story is that all the NAMM guitars were Grover’s, but all less-than-perfect guitars were Frank’s; therefore all the NAMM guitars were Frank’s, but the NAMM guitars showed that Grover’s will be worth the extra wait, with the exception of whichever of the first delivered batch of guitars are blamed on Frank.
I went through a music store who went through a distributor to get his signature Fishmans in Australia last year. Took three frigging months. That was probably the distributor and/or terrible management by the music store though...
Not to belabor this but mine was direct from Fishman. And no judgement on them, they're a great company and nice people. There's a chance they're backlogged now that there's more production models shipping Fluence loaded. Even though Tosin is an endorsement artist, and he and Grover are big names, it's still a low volume operation, so I'd assume filling their bigger orders takes priority.