A Bit of a Disappointing Kiesel NGD

Discussion in 'Standard Guitars' started by vignmachine, Nov 9, 2018.

  1. technomancer

    technomancer Gearus Pimptasticus Super Moderator

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    Black != Purple and that edge is clearly a wide black burst over a thin purple before the transition to blue.

    Queue Jeff making passive aggressive comments about people whining online about their amazing work in his next live stream since you dared to post about this...
     
  2. crankyrayhanky

    crankyrayhanky SS.org Regular

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    That mistake in the OP actually looks cool, but I generally agree- the bevel makes the guitar look tiny. That being said, 2 years ago I saw someone get the reverse color on a bevel; I loved it and got one. I think this reverse should be the norm, not the exception

    [​IMG]


    I want to get another Kiesel, but stories like this are endless and really a Gas killer. Dopey customer service
     
  3. technomancer

    technomancer Gearus Pimptasticus Super Moderator

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    I should also say I do think the guitar looks awesome, it's just not what was ordered.
     
  4. vignmachine

    vignmachine SS.org Regular

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    After a few days with the guitar, I'm generally pretty happy with the build. No sharp frets, no paint imperfections that I can see, neck is great.

    The only thing is that the pickups were installed slightly crooked? I don't think I've ever seen that in my life (done unintentionally) but whatever. Not a huge deal in the grand scheme just kind of a detail thing you wouldn't expect...
     

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  5. Seabeast2000

    Seabeast2000 spec queen simp Contributor

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  6. spudmunkey

    spudmunkey SS.org Regular

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    I have had that happen to several guitars that had Direct mounted humbuckers. The screw that holds them to the body isn't embedded very deeply into body wood, and then it sticks out quite a bit. With the guitar in a case, if the case is bumped hard in one direction, or maybe even ddropped from just a few inches, I've found that direct-mount pickups are more easily knocked a bit out of whack, because the leverage on the screw is enough to knock it out of alignment. Usually just pushing it back his enough to fix it.
     
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  7. diagrammatiks

    diagrammatiks SS.org Regular

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    Working on some software development and design for a while...I realized that the color pallettes for monitors and phones can be all over the place. You don’t need a verbal comfirmation. You need a mock-up of what they think you are talking about. I’ve got 3 iPhone generations here and none of them have the same brightness and yellow temperature.

    Also I think that guitar came out so much better then your reference photo. I know it’s all personal preference but I puked when I saw that reference photo.

    But still not what you ordered.
     
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  8. vignmachine

    vignmachine SS.org Regular

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    The more you know! I had just never seen it personally. I haven't been able to get them straight yet but I'll keep trying. thanks for the info!
     
  9. MetalHead40

    MetalHead40 SS.org Regular

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    I'd have taken a guitar that was not exactly what I envisioned aesthetically as opposed to the unplayable P.O.S. they sent me. My customer service experience with them was abysmal, shameful, and the most unprofessional I've ever encountered.
     
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  10. vignmachine

    vignmachine SS.org Regular

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    Ah man I'm sorry to hear that.
    Have you made a post about it? Curious about your experience (particularly dealing with customer service)
     
  11. Hollowway

    Hollowway Extended Ranger

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    I also think they missed the boat on that completely. Not as bad as that cloud burst from a few years ago, but still a miss. I think at this point it’s clear that they cannot realistically photo match, and they will not state that, and instead make up stuff to explain away the shortcoming. I’ve asked for photo matches from other luthiers before, which fell short, but they were generally honest and up front about it, and in the end I accepted it as their legitimate beat try. I’ve said before, and I’ll again say here, Jeff’s attitude is what is ruining these experiences. His belief that he can do no wrong is an issue, and it drives people away. Had he said, “ah, sorry man. We tried, but it’s just hard to do, and I don’t know that I could get it closer,” I’d bet that you’d feel a lot better about yourself.

    Have you seen that cloud burst build from a few years ago? That was a disaster of customer service. At least yours looks cool, even if different.

    Edit: Here’s the cloudburst one:
    http://www.sevenstring.org/threads/...omatch-gone-wrong-final-update-5-3-16.309923/
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2018
  12. Soya

    Soya Poor person

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    Why yes, I believe the largest Kiesel complaint thread on the internet.
     
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  13. laxu

    laxu SS.org Regular

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    The bevel makes the guitar very comfortable, better than something with a forearm contour. Usually not seen but there is similar beveling at the back too so it makes that edge of the guitar slim. I am not fond of the Zeus and Osiris designs. Out of all the beveled guitars that started popping up from various manufacturers, I still think the Kiesel Aries looks the best.

    I agree the finish is not as requested. The black burst seems like it's the thick one that they usually do so I would not be surprised if they missed the "thin" part. That said, purple can be difficult to photograph so OP could post how the guitar looks in better lighting (either in direct sunlight or with stronger lightsources). In any case the finish is not a disaster so if OP is not happy with it, it should be easy to sell.

    With Kiesel custom finishes always seem to be a gamble. I provided them with a mockup of what I wanted and they matched it quite exactly but this was using their standard colors, only asked them to choose a darker red piece of mahogany.

    [​IMG]
     
  14. Albake21

    Albake21 "Just get a used Ibanez Prestige."

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    They definitely dropped the ball on the black part of the burst, no doubt about it. I think I have said this 10+ on the forum already, but I guess I have to repeat myself weekly. DO NOT GET CUSTOM FINISHES OR OPTIONS FROM KIESEL. You would think people would figure this out by know, especially of this if your fourth build with them. I love Kiesel guitars, but even I know they are shit at custom non standard option work.

    Now with that out of the way, your Zues is absolutely stunning..... I'm not even being dramatic, that thing is fucking gorgeous! So while i does suck they didn't get the finish correct, and you have every right to be pissed at them, at the very least that finish is still incredible and I'd be very happy with it even with it being incorrect.
     
  15. MetalHead40

    MetalHead40 SS.org Regular

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    As Soya here stated; Yes. I haven't looked at it in quite some time, but last I looked at that thread it was just way off in left field. The first few pages were relative to the issue though and I believe there were a few people that came out and said they had similar horrible experiences.
     
  16. Jeff

    Jeff Banned from Reality

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    I agree. They make some killer looking guitars at a reasonable price, but like Dave Friedman, the way he comes across makes me not want to buy anything from him.
     
  17. Ordacleaphobia

    Ordacleaphobia Shameless Contrarian Contributor

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    I think this just seems like a classic case of different people interpreting the same words to mean different things. With multiple people involved in something like this, it's easy for different interpretations to overlap each other. So while Noble probably thought 100% he was getting you what you wanted, whoever did the finish 100% thought he was getting you wanted, and you thought they knew exactly what you wanted, we got...this. Granted, like many others, I still think it's a bitchin' finish (I can't stand the Zeus shape personally, but that finish looks really good), but if it's not what you wanted, well....that's already been covered.

    At the very least you got a well-playing guitar with nothing functionally wrong with it; which is really good, because it could have been much, much worse. At the bare minimum if you decide one day you just don't gel with it, you shouldn't have a hard time selling it.

    The lack of customer support is a big issue for them. CS isn't always just about getting the customer what they want when they call about something, you're supposed to support them. If they aren't happy, you sympathize, even if there's nothing you can do. Provided you weren't rude or a dick (which sounds extremely unlikely given your tone in this thread), I just don't understand why they can't empathize with a dissatisfied client.

    Which kind of makes me think Kiesel should just not accept photomatches. It's a bad business call imo- they leave themselves open to too much criticism. If you name the service photo match then people are going to expect an exact 1:1 replica, and that's got to be extremely difficult to do consistently, no matter how good their paint guys are; they're going to run into tons of situations like this. It's bad for everyone involved and they should really stop offering it; they have enough really good in-house finishes that they know how to do consistently that I don't think they really need to offer this.
     
  18. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    ...so, almost exactly the $200 "photo match" option cost?

    Do you have a spec sheet, for the original quote AND for the final order? If so, that's a pretty easy way to confirm this.

    To ME, my best guess on what happened here was it was a matter of signals getting crossed, and the finishing guys looked at the picture you sent, and said "ok, so this is a burst we've done before, and we can save this guy a couple hundred bucks if we drop the "photo match" option and just describe the colors used as a normal custom burst request," and when that was communicated back to you by your rep, he just didn't clearly explain that they thought they could get you the results you wanted WITHOUT a "photo match" option, thus saving you money. Whereas, for you, what attracted you to that picture wasn't the colors, but rather specific ways they were applied and how they looked in that particularpicture.

    Does that sound about right? At least, at a minimum, that "photo match" was NOT an option you were charged for?
     
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  19. vignmachine

    vignmachine SS.org Regular

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    Yes, that's correct (I think), and in part why I have a lot of time for Noble. I don't have a spec sheet for the initial quote, it was provided over the phone with the caveat that the final amount would be cemented later. I believe it was recognized that the reference pic was a Kiesel build, and so he clarified with the paint department that it could be done similarly without charging me the extra fee. However, you're correct in that none of this was explained or relayed to me, so I can't say with certainty.

    Really- he got it right on the spec sheet. Had it been followed, the guitar would have been a lot closer to the reference.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2018
  20. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    Idunno - to me, the guitar in your picture pretty much looks exactly like this:

    At least, if someone gave you that description with no other information, and they then produced your guitar, it would be awfully tough to tell them they'd made a mistake.

    At the end of the day, an unsatisfied customer is an unsatisfied customer... but this seems like a communication issue coupled with poor follow-up customer service (and again, I refuse to touch anything with Kiesel on the headstock because these stories about abysmal post-sale customer service are so common), rather than anything wrong with the top of the guitar, relative to the description that went in with the order. To me, anyway.
     

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