4 coil wiring

[Rick O'Shea]

Hello Friends,

I have a great switching idea for some really cool tones.

1 Bridge humbucker (series)
2 Bridge in parallel
3 Bridge outer single coil
4 Bridge and neck inner coils parallel
5 Bridge and neck outercoils parallel
6 Neck outer single coil
7 Neck parallel
8 Neck humbucker (series)

I need your help. How can this be wired elegantly?

 

[Mura]

I don't know how to get exactly what you want,
but you can get something close to what you want by using a "free-way switch".

 

[Lemonbaby]

Some guys seem to spend more time switching than playing guitar.

 

[odibrom]

The freeway switches are coll and all, but won't get you all those options, not the blade ones.

The easiest way I see is to use a 3 way main switch to mix both humbuckers: Bridge, both in parallel, and Neck. Then use 2x ON/ON/ON switches to manage Series/Single/Parallel per each pickup, but you'll have to compromise on choosing either Inner OR outer coils.

IF your guitar is a 6 stringer and has pickup rings, get some SeymourDuncan Tripleshot rings, you'll get all of these and then some more. If your guitar has a pickguard, you can replicate the Tripleshot wiring with 2x ON/ON SPDT or DPDT mini switches per humbucker (4 in total).

I can't see any other way without having to add mini switches to the guitar unless you choose to go with rotary switches or push/pull pots. I wouldn't use push/pull pots because I find them not suitable for fast switching. However, 2 push/pull pots or 2x DPDT ON/ON switches could solve your quest combined with a 3 way switch (toggle or blade) could solve your quest, but you'll then loose other options, like having the bridge in full mixed with the neck in single coil mode (either inner or outer coil).

In order to make the Inner or Outer mixes hum canceling, make sure you have alternate magnetic polarity from the closest to the bridge coil up to the closest to the neck one, like South-North (bridge humbucker) / South-North (Neck humbucker).

@Lemonbaby are you talkin' to me? 😂

 

[ElRay]

The freeway switches are coll and all, but won't get you all those options, not the blade ones. …

They have three product lines:

• A 3-way Toggle, that has 6-positions
• A 3-way Blade, that has 6-positions
• A 5-way Blade, that has 10-positions

That said, the 5-way blade doesn't have the ability to set all the positions uniquely. Maybe with some creative use of the lugs for the 3H option, you might be able to get what you're looking for.

If you're going this route, I'd just go with 3x6-way rotary and get all the single/parallel/in-phase/out-of-phase combinations. If you're not interested in in-phase/out-of-phase variations, then you can go with 3x4-way rotary (40 combinations).

 

[Rick O'Shea]

@Mura, @odibrom, @ElRay, thank you gentlemen. I spoke with freeway and the 10way blade gets most of the positions, but not all.

I found a video of the positions being achieved perfectly with two dpdt switches working interactively. Selecting series, inner, parallel, and outer.



I noted the switch positions


Any clues on how this is wired?

 

[odibrom]

@Mura, @odibrom, @ElRay, thank you gentlemen. I spoke with freeway and the 10way blade gets most of the positions, but not all.

I found a video of the positions being achieved perfectly with two dpdt switches working interactively. Selecting series, inner, parallel, and outer.



I noted the switch positions
View attachment 123051

Any clues on how this is wired?

That's the Seymour Duncan's Tripleshot wiring. You can have 2 switches per humbucker (summing 4 in total) or only 2 switches total.

1st options gives you the most combinations, you can either use 4X SPDT or 4X DPDT mini switches. I have this on 2 of my 7 stringers and the 8 stringer as a recreation of the Tripleshot rings. I have the Tripleshot rings on both my 6 stringers. My fretless also has this for the bridge humbucker only, because the neck is a sustainer...

This is the wiring scheme for ONE humbucker. Replicate it for both humbuckers.

2nd option is to have 2X DPDT mini switches and have these control both humbuckers. Down side is less combinations and that when one switch is activated, it will mess with both humbuckers simultaneously.

This is the wiring scheme for 2x DPDT mini switches to control 2 humbuckers simultaneously:

Here is how I have things in one of my guitars:, I'm using a Freeway 3x#-05 ultra switch (toggle type, 6 positions) as the main switch (orange tip) and the 4 mini-switches are layed out as I find most functional. I actually use the top 2 switches to control the Inner coils and the bottom 2 for the outer coils, but at the time this photo was taken I had the DiMarzio pickups rotated 180º, so the switches were working accordingly with the coils' positions. The switches next to the mags' volume pot are for the neck humbucker and the switches next to the piezo volume are for the bridge humbucker...

I've also done this to my Universe... Same schematic, but this time I used a 5B5-01 Freeway switch as the main pickup switch, and these mini toggles are to manage each humbucker. The "disc" thing near the volume pot is a piezo touch style kill switch, whenever touched it kills the sound momentarily, it's cool for some rhythms...

... but you still haven't told us what guitar is this for, se we can suggest you the best way to do it...

 

[Rick O'Shea]

@odibrom,

First of all, thank you for your insight, and your thoughtful response. Truly salt of the earth.

Secondly, those are some cool guitars! I love the idea of piezo saddles

The triple shot wiring with two dpdt switches seems the most in line with what my original goal was. Is this the same wiring as the seymour duncan "P-rails"?


As for the guitar itself, since you asked, I am preparing to wind pickups for a custom guitar I am building.

I am interested in a very specific single coil sound that split humbuckers never deliver, so I am winding single coils which can be put in series.

 

[odibrom]

@Rick O'Shea no problem man. I've been there before (at the "what should I do with the wiring" position) and gathered this info, so it was an easy share.

Yes, I believe that the schematic you posted is the same as the one I posted for Option 2. Be careful because those Prail pickups had some weird thing with their wires, not the conventional Seymour Duncan color coding. The schematics I posted were both found on the net (not made by me) and I've studied them to make my own wiring schematics for the guitars I've posted earlier (the first is a deeply modded RG7421).

Regarding the piezos, Graphtech has a very straight forward installation and wiring guide, however, think I prefer LR Baggs' stuff... Take a look at LR Baggs as well, but I think their site is not showing anything about electric guitar piezos, so you may have to ask them directly (email). In my experience, both Graphtech and LR Baggs have EXCELLENT consumer service and I've bought them stuff directly a few times to be delivered overseas (I'm European and they're both North America). The LR Baggs and Graphtech ratio in my guitars is 4 to 3, wining LR Baggs...

I can see why you haven't mentioned what the guitar it was for, so if it's still open, there's still a lot other possibilities. You can get all those sounds per humbucker with a 4 positions rotary switch, 2x rotary switches, on for each humbucker and there you go!. Another crazy option is to use a 4 way tele switch (per humbucker) to get those sounds, one switch per humbucker as well.

The guitars I've posted earlier have 145 and 73 combinations respectively. The one with 145 combos is the one with piezos, the UV has 73. Many tones are pretty similar (the single coil split of North or South coils of the neck humbucker is very similar), but others are way different. These shine mostly on mid gain amp settings and out-of-phase combinations are specially interesting with the lower strings (an 8 stringer benefits from these tones). These are tones for one to let go from this reality and venture into the ether, seasoned with a bit of reverb and delays to taste... without the side effects that drugs bring to the table...

Oh, and don't forget to post a "build thread" on that guitar as well...

 

[Rick O'Shea]

@odibrom,

Thank you for your effort in explaining these things to me. I admire your passion for the subject.

What you said about phase switching being particularly valuable for the 8th string peaked my curiosity.

All the best

 

[odibrom]

@odibrom,

Thank you for your effort in explaining these things to me. I admire your passion for the subject.

What you said about phase switching being particularly valuable for the 8th string peaked my curiosity.

All the best

Well, one only really knows these tings after trying them out. If you have a beater guitar, use it as a test bed. My RG8's previous circuit could have each humbucker wired with the coils out of phase and out of phase with each other, It allowed me to have each of the 4 coils individually out of phase against the rest. The tones were on the same ball park (having 3 coils in phase and on reversed), but substantially different to be interesting and surprising. Obviously, this means lots of switches and at that time I was having 2 switches per humbucker just to control the coils' phase. At the current wiring only allows to have the full neck humbucker in reverse phase to the bridge one.

We, as guitar players, don't experiment much with the possibilities in the wiring. There are tons of sounds to experiment with only 4 coils, and they deliver lots of different feels.

Here are a few conclusions I found:
1 - the more coils one adds to the circuit, the more compressed the tone will feel, either in series or in parallel and in whatever combination.
2 - odd number of coils will always hum, no matter the wiring scheme... unless, of course, one of the coils is a stacked humbucker, which will then make the count a pair number
3 - most of the sounds I like are made with 1 or 2 coils top.
4 - the combination of 2 coils of the same polarity in out of phase will cancel hum (it's a quiet mix) and still sound out of phase.
5 - Inner coils in series in a double hum guitar (must be north+south coils combo) is a seriously under-apreciated combination and is BY FAR the best "in between" sound of full neck and full bridge.
6 - I dig out of phase tones, altougth I don't go for them unless I'm just messing around with some of the guitars (late night jams are cool for these tones).
7 - hum will only be annoying if you're not playing (Ingway Malmsteen knows it well)... fast enough.
8 - you can do whatever combo you like, in the end of the day that's what will inspire you to play and write cool songs. The audience will never know the real meaning of it only the expression on one's face and that's their hints.

If you want to go crazy, the simplest way is to get 3x 3x3-05 or 3b3-01 switches or a combination of these from Freeway switches. Have 2 of these to control each hum's coils (6 sounds possible) and the 3rd to control the mix of both hums with each other (again 6 possible combos) and you'll get a fantastic number of...156 different tones/options to play with.

The 6 possible sounds of a passive humbucker are:
1 - Both coils in series and in phase
2 - Both coils in parallel and in phase
3 - Both coils in series and out of phase
4 - Both coils in parallel and out of phase
5 - North coil split
6 - South coil split.

You can consider each humbucker as a single coil and get these 6 sounds as their mix... 3 switches to give you 156 different combinations of 4 coils.

... and I like to share things because that how we grow as a whole, that's how we bond with each other... I'm glad you liked these ones. Now go have some fun with this!...

 

[Rick O'Shea]

Thank you m8. I'll let you know what I end up with

 

[Legion]

Some guys seem to spend more time switching than playing guitar.

Better spending time getting the most out of what you have than looking for more gear- which is what 99.99% of this forum does...

That being said, this thread has given me some ideas to futz with in my own guitar, so thanks everyone!

 

[odibrom]

Better spending time getting the most out of what you have than looking for more gear- which is what 99.99% of this forum does...

That being said, this thread has given me some ideas to futz with in my own guitar, so thanks everyone!

I'm glad to help you guys out with ideas... That's a point of view. My perspective is simpler, as I can't have all the guitas I want for all their sounds, "one for this, one for that"... I'll try to have all the guitars in one, so I don't have to be constantly swapping, it takes less storage real state and keeps the wallet healthy... all good things in my book. 😁

 

[Rick O'Shea]

@odibrom

Hey I was thinking about what you said for a while, so I'm looking into piezo systems.

Do you know anything about piezo saddles themselves?

I designed a bridge sort of like a tune o matic but to fit block like saddles. Think I could make piezo saddles?

 

[odibrom]

@odibrom

Hey I was thinking about what you said for a while, so I'm looking into piezo systems.

Do you know anything about piezo saddles themselves?

I designed a bridge sort of like a tune o matic but to fit block like saddles. Think I could make piezo saddles?

View attachment 123879

View attachment 123878

I'm sure many can make piezo saddles, if you can or not I cannot say. Personally, I'd look at brands like LR Baggs, Fishman and Graftech and see what they offer...