2-point trems are in and double locking trems are... less in than before. Why?

[oracles]

I feel like newer guitarists are less intimidated by 2 point/vintage style trems than they are floyds or other double locking trems. They see all the extra screws and hardware and don't know how to work with any of it, and the intimidation is enough for them to move towards more vintage style trems.

Every summer, I get high school kids in who want to try out heavy duty mechanic work but they've never held a hand tool in their lives, much less know how to use one, or even what most of them are. I wouldn't be surprised if that's carried across to guitars.

Looks hard/intimidating = less interest.

I dont think we're going to see a decline in FRs, just more people paying to have them setup because they cant/don't want to learn how to.

 

[MetalDestroyer]

I think it has more to do with guitar culture in general. The Gen Z trend is Suhr-style guitars with the rise of Polyphia and other associated Instagram acts, so a ton of new models have started to have 510's. It's not like FR (and its Ibanez equivalents) are made less, it just seems like it because a large portion of new models have 510's.

 

[Crash Dandicoot]

Personally, I believe the EBMM JP series is the culprit for the tremolo paradigm shift we're experiencing. In my view they were the catalyst for the general shift towards the 'non-locking trems with locking tuners' angle.

Less specifically, though, it's general guitar culture, as mentioned. When you have a vocal demographic who are mechanically illiterate incessantly preaching that Floyds are a hassle to service ad nauseam on forums for years, the optics tend to be negative. It's the same kind of crowd that wouldn't know they had a flat tire unless a light in their cluster told them so.

Even in this thread you have members who believe the 510 is a step above in terms of ease of use/setup and I fundamentally cannot understand that line of thinking. Floating trems are floating trems. They operate within the same principles and laws of physics as the rest.

 

[Mboogie7]

I was very curious about the Gotoh 510’s when they hit the market and eventually got my hands on an AZ. I’ll say that it does everything I want/need it to, but I’ve also never been Uber crazy when it comes to dive mobs, etc with any of my Floyd’s.

The Floyd certainly feels clunkier to me, which is one reason I like the 510, but I still think I’d prefer a Floyd if it could be minimized, if that makes sense.

 

[KentBrockman]

Let's be real - there are lot of guitar players out there that just aren't very bright and are impatient. It's not hugely difficult to google "floyd rose setup" or whatever. In the past 10-15 years, so many online resources have become available to walk one through the process. There really isn't much of an excuse for a DL trem owner to not know how to set it up.

 

[CapinCripes]

Honestly I find guitar setup time to be zen time so the Floyd's complexities are actually a perk.

 

[yan12]

They all are good systems and all have their pros/cons. I only own Floyds and hardtails. I think the newer 2pt trems are fantastic and have their place for tons of great players.

That said, as a man in my 50's, I grew up with learning how to set up and use Floyds. I love them. I do feel the move to the (easier?) to set up 2 points is akin to how I feel about younger folks in general. I call them the short cutter generation because to me, I encounter laziness everywhere and every day with that group, always looking for the easy way. My kids are included in that statement! I am sure that statement will offend some folks, but it should only offend the lazy. I have a real issue with it and since it permeates every single aspect of life these days....shelf stockers, bank tellers, teachers...my patience has worn thin. I am in for a LONG rest of my life dealing with these clowns. Again, this applies to my own kids. I love 'em more than anything, but fight to have them really dig into the concept of work ethic in ALL things, not just school.

But the cure is to fire up the stacks and play my balls off. I love writing and recording, and just the entirety of the guitar world. Can't have enough guitar in my life and I put in the work to really enjoy it.

If you are going to be a serious player or collector, learn how to maintain your own gear. Period. Even it you have a 2pt trem, know how it works, how to maintain it, and keep jamming. The world is devoid of players but full of talkers and teachers on the subject.

 

[KnightBrolaire]

Let's be real - there are lot of guitar players out there that just aren't very bright and are impatient. It's not hugely difficult to google "floyd rose setup" or whatever. In the past 10-15 years, so many online resources have become available to walk one through the process. There really isn't much of an excuse for a DL trem owner to not know how to set it up.

Exactly. When I was first learning to play like 20 years ago (jesus I can't believe it's been that long) not knowing how to set stuff up would have been a valid excuse, because yt didn't exist yet, and online tutorials weren't omnipresent like they are now. Nowadays it's stupidly easy to find tutorials on damn near anything you can think of. There really isn't an excuse for not being able to do basic setups on your guitars at this point. Shit I still see people asking dumb questions about truss rods and being scared to adjust them.

 

[somethingsomething]

There's some wild speculation in this thread. Like, are y'all only looking at Fenders or something? Because I see double-locking trems all over the place.

Ibanez can barely put out a guitar (save the AZ) without a Lo-Pro. Jackson and Charvel put FRs on almost everything. ESP has plenty of models with FRs. I see tons of Kiesels with FRs. Even Suhr uses the Gotoh FR on certain models.

I actually wish there were more options for hardtails and non-locking trems on "metal" guitars. But, in general, it seems to me that there are more options for all preferences than ever before.

 

[Hollowway]

I see tons of Kiesels with FRs.

Kiesel is one of the main builders moving away from Floyds. You might be seeing loads of used Kiesels with Trems, but not new ones. They only offer them on a few sixxers these days. (And only last month increased that availability.) 5-10 years ago they were available on a crapload of models, but not anymore.

 

[somethingsomething]

Kiesel is one of the main builders moving away from Floyds. You might be seeing loads of used Kiesels with Trems, but not new ones. They only offer them on a few sixxers these days. (And only last month increased that availability.) 5-10 years ago they were available on a crapload of models, but not anymore.

Sure, but there's still obviously a demand for them. The main point is basically all of the major "shred guitar" makers are pumping out tons of FR-models. I mean, sure, I don't see a lot of Aristides with FRs (though, they don't have any standard production models anyway, so this isn't a great example) but Aristides also represents a sliver of the guitar market.

I don't really understand what OP is saying about guitar makers moving away from FRs. I see them everywhere on almost every metal-leaning guitar.

 

[gunch]

There's some wild speculation in this thread. Like, are y'all only looking at Fenders or something? Because I see double-locking trems all over the place.

Ibanez can barely put out a guitar (save the AZ) without a Lo-Pro. Jackson and Charvel put FRs on almost everything. ESP has plenty of models with FRs. I see tons of Kiesels with FRs. Even Suhr uses the Gotoh FR on certain models.

I actually wish there were more options for hardtails and non-locking trems on "metal" guitars. But, in general, it seems to me that there are more options for all preferences than ever before.

I was thinking of AZs( and the chon and polyphia sigs by extension) Charvel DKs with 510s and the Aaron Marshall sig when I made this thread

Tim and Scott did play some Jacksons and RGs with locking trems before the AZ days though

Indeed, just a casual observation and sig models aren’t the entire product stack in a given maker

 

[Kyle Jordan]

Most guitarists don't know shit about fuck when it comes to setting up and maintaining their instruments so they're willing to sacrifice a bit of tuning stability so they don't have to put as much effort in.

^This. A thousand times this.

For most of my playing life, I've been Floyd/Double Locking or GTFO. The ease of dealing with my fixed bridge S8 was offset by it's lack of tuning stability compared to my Floyd Jacksons, and the S8 is actually a very stable guitar.

Even with my Evertune, that I adore, I still wanted an equivalent guitar with a trem, so I'm giving the Hantug Aristides a whirl on my next guitar. It's not quite a Floyd, but is double locking. If the H/08 doesn't pan out for some reason, it'll be replaced with a production 7 or custom 8 sting.

Either of those will have a Floyd. (Or a Gotoh 1996/Lo Pro Edge/Sophia. You get the idea.)

 

[budda]

I bought a DC727FR with plans to learn whammy tricks. I did not learn whammy tricks.

 

[spudmunkey]

all of the major "shred guitar" makers are pumping out tons of FR-models.

I don't really understand what OP is saying about guitar makers moving away from FRs.

It makes sense for brands known for their floyd-equipped guitars to continue offering them, and it makes sense that they continue to sell because they have always been on of "the" sources for it.

But...I think there are more and more (non-strat) models with non-floyds. So many of the AZ models, as mentioned, etc.

When EBMM made the EVH guitar, it had a Floyd. Once they stopped offering that, the model that replaced it's single-cut-ness in their lineup, the Axis, still has it...but zero of their other models have a locking trem.

John Petrucci's JPM100 Ibanez had a double locking, but none of his current EBMM do.

Kiesel's been brought up, and while they do continue to offer 6-string Floyds, even in some of their newest models, it's not as many as it used to be on, and they dropped the 7-string floyd now like 5-6 years ago I think.

Going to Schecter's site's "new" section, only 1 of the 3 trem-equipped has a Floyd even though their signature artist roster seems pretty heavily-weighted to Floyds. I am not familiar enough with much of their roster, but a lot of the Floyd models' namesakes seem to be a bit more "old school" than the sig models with another trem option.

 

[somethingsomething]

It makes sense for brands known for their floyd-equipped guitars to continue offering them, and it makes sense that they continue to sell because they have always been on of "the" sources for it.

But...I think there are more and more (non-strat) models with non-floyds. So many of the AZ models, as mentioned, etc.

That seems right to me. But that doesn't necessarily mean that there are less FR guitars. It's perfectly possible that there are just as many FR-equipped guitars nowadays as there were ten years ago. It could just be the case that guitar makers are also putting out more guitars with two-point trems. And that's my main point. There are more options than ever when it comes to guitars. So yeah, not everyone who's interested in a trem wants an FR. Some people are satisfied with non-locking trems, which makers are catering to.

As an aside, I personally think the Floyd is an outdated design with too many quirks. In my opinion, Ibanez created a much more comfortable locking bridge and it's a shame they don't license it out to other companies.

 

[nickgray]

As an aside, I personally think the Floyd is an outdated design with too many quirks. In my opinion, Ibanez created a much more comfortable locking bridge and it's a shame they don't license it out to other companies.

I think the biggest issue with fully floating trems by far is that they don't come with a built-in block that blocks the pull-up motion. That's where all the issues come from with regards to putting them in a different tuning and all the maintenance related problems. I really think they'd be more popular and we'd see way less random people hating on FRs because they don't know how to deal with them (yep, it's as simple as blocking it). A claw design with just a single adjustment (like Schaller Sure Claw) would help even more, as you won't get tiny discrepancies due to not being able to turn the two claw screws perfectly in sync. Single adjustment claw + built-in pull-up block = foolproof trem. At least imo.

 

[Robslalaina]

Even in this thread you have members who believe the 510 is a step above in terms of ease of use/setup and I fundamentally cannot understand that line of thinking. Floating trems are floating trems. They operate within the same principles and laws of physics as the rest.

Exactly! Why locking nuts are so problematic or dauting for some people I can't fathom either. No string binding issues (at least ime), they can accomodate a broad range of gauges... I seriously don't get it. Make sure the base of the nut is securely screwed in. Make sure you don't crush the friggin strings by overtightening the pads. That's it. Nut sitting too low? Cut up a soda can to make shims. Nut sitting too high? Time for some minimal sanding which can be a hassle, but not any more difficult than making string slots the right shape, depth, slope and sometimes radius, and so if you're handy with a nut file, what's even the diffculty of having a locking nut?

 

[Goblet of Gore]

Call me crazy but I always liked the sound of Floyded guitars more....

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

No locking nut setups can perform great with locking tuners and a well set up nut, but one of the most crucial minimization of friction points is a straight string path for the saddle to the tuner post with just enough down pressure at the nut to seat the string there. Ideally, in this setup, the nut should be the only friction point between the saddles and the locking tuner post.