£3400/$4990/€3760 for a baritone ESP = fail

Discussion in 'Standard Guitars' started by Scar Symmetry, Apr 26, 2009.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Yoshi

    Yoshi SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    608
    Likes Received:
    136
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2007
    Location:
    Perth, Western Australia
    You mean hand built instruments from Japan right?

    Original series is handbuilt. They are not made in the same factory or procedure the Standard Series are. They are Custom Factory guitars.
     
  2. Scar Symmetry

    Scar Symmetry Ex Whiny Bitch

    Messages:
    15,865
    Likes Received:
    2,947
    Joined:
    May 29, 2007
    Location:
    Bristol, UK
    oh wise fountain of ESP knowledge, please excuse us for not all being ESP fanboys, pray tell - what is the difference?

    both Standard series and Original series are built in the custom shop, so what's the massive difference between the two?
     
  3. hufschmid

    hufschmid Banned

    Messages:
    7,888
    Likes Received:
    2,556
    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2007
    Location:
    switzerland
    You mean that a body cut out by CNC is hand built?

    Most of the operations are made by CNC even on a ''custom shop''........

    There is a big difference between custom shop and handmade in some cases........
     
  4. noodleplugerine

    noodleplugerine SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    883
    Likes Received:
    34
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2007
    Location:
    London UK
    There's a very good reason they cost that much. Because people are willing to pay that much.

    ESP is a business. They're trying to make money. They're not giving guitars away.

    And in terms of "reality check" - The reality is, ESP charge this much, and sell them - And I'm sure they make a massive profit - That's the point of running a successful business right?

    Or would you expect them to expand massively as a company, all the while making less profit than they could, so that you can get your chosen guitars cheap? Reality? Checked.

    That is the difference... The standard series is built in a factory, and then Original series are built in a custom shop.

    Edit for Hufschmid's post:

    You can go into the philosophy of luthiery if you want - But do you really think you can prove that your method of building is better than say Organic guitars - Who CNC his bodies and finish off by hand?

    For rough cutting, I don't see any problem with CNC at all - its just more efficient than building a blank and then cutting out a basic shape with a band saw/router - And I'm sure its probably more accurate aswell.

    And if they could make a CNC machine that could build a whole guitar down to even the neck carve etc, then it would definitely be viable imo.
     
  5. Scar Symmetry

    Scar Symmetry Ex Whiny Bitch

    Messages:
    15,865
    Likes Received:
    2,947
    Joined:
    May 29, 2007
    Location:
    Bristol, UK
    I remember reading on the ESP website somewhere that ESP guitars were built in the main factory and custom shop in Japan. I guess I thought that meant that each guitar was moved between the two, instead of different series are built in each.

    that makes more sense now :yesway:
     
  6. Metal Ken

    Metal Ken Hates the Air Contributor

    Messages:
    21,002
    Likes Received:
    751
    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2004
    Location:
    Florida
    I dont know any independant Japanese luthiers offhand. But i have gotten quotes from several small independant builders that are no more than 25-2800$.
     
  7. Yoshi

    Yoshi SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    608
    Likes Received:
    136
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2007
    Location:
    Perth, Western Australia
    The Standard Series and Original are constructed differently. If you were to order a Custom Shop from ESP which would run about the same price, You would be getting the same level of quality from the Original Series guitars. The Standard series are a notch below. Hence the prices.

    There are also Technical House and Craft House guitars which cost a lot more.

    An independent luthier or company who hand builds their guitar doesn't automatically make the highest of quality. Devires is a clear example. With ESP you get what you pay for. I know many luthiers around where I live and while they also build their guitars mostly by hand (I don't think many luthiers these days make guitars without some machinery involved) and their guitars aren't quite up to the ESP Custom standard. If you think that price is bullshit then come here and buy an LPC. 8000AUD+.
     
  8. hufschmid

    hufschmid Banned

    Messages:
    7,888
    Likes Received:
    2,556
    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2007
    Location:
    switzerland
    I love the way you throw in Devires as an exemple....

    Thank you for comparing our work to his work and telling that we dont meet ESP standards :rofl:
     
  9. Yoshi

    Yoshi SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    608
    Likes Received:
    136
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2007
    Location:
    Perth, Western Australia
    If you went to Japan and visited ESP's Technical and Craft houses you could get a guitar that is usually of even higher quality than the Custom Shop guitars. Custom Shop/Original Series are factory ordered guitars. The T/C House's are in person. You can choose whatever you want on your guitar there.

    I think when you mention the guitars being moved you might be thinking about their Edwards line. Woodworked in China under supervision of ESP's Japanese luthiers and finished off in Japan.

    Who said you're work? Are you insinuating that I made allusions to it being your work? While I like your guitars, I have never played one. I can't compare YOUR guitar to ESP. I'm just saying that I've played guitars by local luthiers who were not up to the same quality as my ESP which was a tad more expensive.

    Saying that you can get a hand built guitar for that price means that hand built would have to be better otherwise why say it?

    Meh, maybe Devries wasn't the best example, but he's still an independent luthier who builds guitars. My point was that hand build does not automatically equal better.
     
  10. Cheesebuiscut

    Cheesebuiscut Loves his Q-tuners

    Messages:
    4,053
    Likes Received:
    370
    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2009
    Location:
    NJ
    Yoshi can rant all day and shoot the shit...

    I'd buy 50 hufschmids before I would even think about buying 1 production guitar at that price.
     
    hufschmid likes this.
  11. Metal Ken

    Metal Ken Hates the Air Contributor

    Messages:
    21,002
    Likes Received:
    751
    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2004
    Location:
    Florida
    I realize this. I'm talking about reputable luthiers. KxK, for example. You can get a base model from them for around 1300$. one with some serious options for around 2-2500$. Ran is a bit more expensive now, but their prices still beat the hell out of what you pay for a ESP custom. There's a few others i cant think of offhand, but you get the idea. If you want to talk about "Name brand custom shops", Schecter has quoted a tricked-the-fuck-out 007 Blackjack Baritone guitar at about 3800$ when i emailed them for a quote.

    With ESP, you're getting a quality guitar, i agree. But you're not getting what you're paying for. What you're paying for is a financial pillaging.
     
  12. Scar Symmetry

    Scar Symmetry Ex Whiny Bitch

    Messages:
    15,865
    Likes Received:
    2,947
    Joined:
    May 29, 2007
    Location:
    Bristol, UK
    that makes much more sense to me now.

    now all I need to do is get an ESP endorsement and order a custom shop free of charge :)
     
  13. KH Guitar Freak

    KH Guitar Freak Member

    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    4
    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2009
    Location:
    Perth, Western Australia
    I wonder how much these guitars made by less well known luthiers are able to fetch on the used market...

    Funny thing is, there are many other great guitars for the money like Nik Hubers and Hamers, but I don't see anyone hyping about them either...

    Not that ordering a RAN is wrong, but I hope you are kidding when you are comparing a RAN to an ESP Custom Shop guitar...
     
  14. PnKnG

    PnKnG Banned

    Messages:
    946
    Likes Received:
    155
    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2009
    Location:
    Sweden
    Its hilarious that you pick Devires as an example. That guy is a kid who decided after he had made 1 guitar that this made him a luthier. Being a luthier is much more than just making a guitar. You have to have knowledge of what wood to pick for what guitar, diciding which piece is the best and so much more. Devires is no a luthier. He is a scam. A guy who says that his guitar is made for 1 specific amp played on 1 specifc setting is an idiot and not a luthier to me.

    The other thing is you going after Hufschmid. His guitar ARE better than any ESP custom shop. ESP still uses only industrial standard parts. While Hufschmid does the same for bridge and other hardware, you will get custom made, hand built pickups if you buy a guitar from him. ESP only offers you the normal choise of SD, EMG, Dimarzio and so on. ESP is still a mass producer. If something doesn't comes out 100 % right they don't care. While a luthier ALWAYS has to put 100 % into his work and nothing less. If he does a half ass job he will go out of buissnes. ESP doesn't needs to fear that. Also to got accsess to the custom shop you often have to be a signed artist to the company. Also its hilairous what most big companys charge for custom shop guitar. from a luthier you will got the same quallity if not better for less money if you find the right one. Of course there are also those who will be of less quallity but you make it out to be as if an ESP custom shop is the best ever which it is not.

    edit:
    I also agree with Metal Ken.
    ESP is not a bad guitar. just overpriced.
     
  15. Yoshi

    Yoshi SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    608
    Likes Received:
    136
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2007
    Location:
    Perth, Western Australia
    Well no. KxK are manufactured in America. I do not know the grade of wood is used etc. But I assume that the price would be fairer to you than to me. If I asked someone to build the exact same thing I asked of ESP or Jackson or any other company that had their own custom shop with the same grade of materials used, I truly wonder whether the price would be better. I have played an Original Series GT, and it does in fact play like a 6k guitar when I compared it to the Gibson Les Paul Custom I played. It's not a matter of the guitar being a production model, it is HOW it is built and who builds it. I have nothing against independent luthiers, hell if I knew of a luthier who could build a 3k guitar that played like a 6k ESP I would jump right on it, but I've never been able to play a guitar that was as such. I can't compare Elysian or Hufschmidts(Sorry if I spelt it wrong) guitars because I haven't played it.

    And to confirm. Original Series are treated in the same way as their Custom Shop guitars. Built the same way. Custom Shops are merely one offs that they build on order. Quality would be of the same standard.
     
  16. PnKnG

    PnKnG Banned

    Messages:
    946
    Likes Received:
    155
    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2009
    Location:
    Sweden
    Thats because if you buy a custom guitar from a luthier you normally stick to that one.

    And what is wrong with RAN?
    guitar that are very close to ESP for less money. Does seems anything wrong to me.
     
  17. Yoshi

    Yoshi SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    608
    Likes Received:
    136
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2007
    Location:
    Perth, Western Australia
    I never went after him...
    Proof?
    So it's a fact then?

    That's a non issue. You saying SD, Dimarzio or EMGs suck?

    That's entirely your opinion.

    I'm under the impression you don't know the difference in quality levels with ESP. Sorry but that's how you come off.:wavey:
     
  18. PnKnG

    PnKnG Banned

    Messages:
    946
    Likes Received:
    155
    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2009
    Location:
    Sweden
    That doesn't makes any sense at all. Those are 2 completely different guitars.

    And yes a luthier will make a better guitar out of the same material as the custom shop. Also you should realize that that comparison is dumb since no piece of wood is alike. even if its from the same tree it will have a different density and stuff like that. There are a lot of luthiers today that can build a better Les Paul than Gibsons own custom shop. When ordering from a big company you will ALWAYS also pay for the name. with a luthier you will pay for what you get.
     
  19. drmosh

    drmosh Sir Paul of the Mosh Contributor

    Messages:
    4,709
    Likes Received:
    552
    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2007
    Location:
    Manchester, UK
    Is it a fact that they're not better? how can you know that?
     
  20. PnKnG

    PnKnG Banned

    Messages:
    946
    Likes Received:
    155
    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2009
    Location:
    Sweden
    1. Uh...The guitar in the OP for example has a OFR, Gotoh tuner and SD pickups ;) Nothing is specially made just for this guitar. all standard parts that you can buy yourself.
    2. Yes, IF you got a good luthier. if you go to a guy like Devires its something totaly different. but yeah it is.
    3. No, never said that. just said that you can get something you can't get from the ESP custom shop.
    4. Opinion just opinion.
    5. Why should I? I don't like ESP guitars and I'm not a fanboy like you.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.