# Anyone here bench, lift weights, etc?



## niffnoff

So I've just started working out in the college gym, and doing running and the such, but I really wanna get some training in weights. Anyone here know what the best weight would be for someone who's never done that kinda thing? I know it's a broad question but I'm just curious.


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## Winspear

Just use the bar (20kg presuming it's a standard bar) until you feel comfortable. 
Same applies with all exercises really. Get comfortable and then put the weight up gradually as you see fit. 
Eventually you want to aim for around 6 reps and use a weight that only allows you to do that.


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## Winspear

Also get a trainer to check your form


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## Aevolve

Get someone who really knows what they're doing to walk you through form.

Form ALWAYS >>>> Amount of weight


EDIT: Half ninja'd in like 3 sec.


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## niffnoff

Lol I figured, I started on a 20kg and did 3 sets of 5. But I felt I could do more so I did a 40kg (2 x20 kg) and I did 2 sets of 6. Man they did kill me off


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## Hollowway

To this day I think the best info out there is in Schwarzenegger's Encyclopedia of Modern Bodybuilding. Great routines, multiple exercises, technique, etc.

And +1 to form > weight. You want to be the guy curling 50 lbs weight in proper form with full extension, not the dude with 100lbs just rocking back and forth with his arms bent.

But be careful of picking a personal trainer. I know a decent amount about form, and I see "trainers" in the local gym violate that all the time. The best trainers are in real weight training gyms, not the local health club. Those guys don't know squat. lol: No pun intended!)


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## niffnoff

Most the people at my college are fitness freaks and have been doing it all semester long.  I just follow advice from the most hench people possible and get pointers on the way and try. I do alot of cardio and such, so I know form is the more important thing over reps right now.


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## Winspear

niffnoff said:


> Lol I figured, I started on a 20kg and did 3 sets of 5. But I felt I could do more so I did a 40kg (2 x20 kg) and I did 2 sets of 6. Man they did kill me off



Don't know your build but that sounds about right for a beginner


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## Winspear

Also in direct answer to your original question - the 'best' weight is the one at which you can't get out the last rep. As soon as you can, it's not the best weight anymore


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## niffnoff

EtherealEntity said:


> Don't know your build but that sounds about right for a beginner



Uhhh, I couldn't tell you dude, but I'm just going through the paces, replacing fat for muscle hopefully  not that I'm massively over weight these days I just wanna do more than cardio and work outs.

I felt so relieved after the final rep. chest pain. OW


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## Winspear

As long as you learn to tell the difference between PAIN and working your muscle  Pain is bad, but yes you could absolutely describe a good workout as painful haha.

Also, get a spotter so you can push yourself more. I didn't know my true limits on bench press when I was training alone. I'd always consider the last rep almost failure and then stop. As soon as I got a spot however and was more confident, I found a whole new mental and physical level at which I could keep going - easily taking over 5 seconds to get my last rep up. I'd never go that far without a spot, but if you have someone there you can go a lot heavier. 
Once I found that feeling and knew what to aim for, my bench weight and chest size progress has become 3 times as fast.


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## JP Universe

I've just been working with a couple of dumbells lately in the loungeroom while I watch TV. It also helps if you're watching Ripped guys on TV. Jersey Shore etc lol


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## niffnoff

JP Universe said:


> I've just been working with a couple of dumbells lately in the loungeroom while I watch TV. It also helps if you're watching Ripped guys on TV. Jersey Shore etc lol



Lol if anything that DE-motivates me. I wish I had my own dumbells but sadly I don't and probably won't till after college when the gym ain't free no mo.  But I know what you mean.


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## TheBigGroove

working out with your own body weight is a great way to start, i.e. pushups for chest, dips for triceps. AND you can start out doing a lot of these at home and supplement the routine with just a set of light'ish dumbells.

Personally I'm at the point now where I'd have to do 60+ pushups to feel any kind of 'burn' but you'll definitely feel satisfied with this kind of routine for at least 3 months. 

and when you do start lifting with heavier weights DEFINITELY do some research (youtube is great) on form, technique, routines etc. Also don't forget to try different lifts out on both barbell and dumbells. my bench plateaud at 205x7 reps for about 2.5 months until I started benching with dumbells - and keep in mind I was only benching with 85lb'ers. Now I'm able to get 225 for 6 reps.

edit: dumbell press workouts are also great because they're RELATIVELY safe without a spotter


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## TheBigGroove

EtherealEntity said:


> Also in direct answer to your original question - the 'best' weight is the one at which you can't get out the last rep. As soon as you can, it's not the best weight anymore



this is a great point and one I really didn't understand the merit of until recently. This is why having a spotter is a must when you get into heavy weights - forced repetitions are the only way to get stronger! Going to failure (or realistically just before) is a must once you start making big gains - you need someone there to help just a bit with that last rep.

You have the realize that muscle builds/gets stronger on the way down (the negative). For example with bench press, the pressing-up motion squeezes blood into your pecs, and letting the weight back down to your chest tears into the muscle fibers...then you press again and more blood is allowed in...repeat...viola big solid man-boobs.


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## ExousRulez

I have some kind of "workout gym" in my garage and I use the bar with 2 20lbs and try to do at least 30-45 up and downs at once 5-10 times a day as well as pull ups/push ups.

After starting online school in november I have gained like 20 pounds of fat, I guess I ate more since i'm always home and didn't eat at school but whats the best way to lose some of my stomach? Around a year ago I was easily able to 20-30 pull ups and now I can only do 10-15 because of my weight as well as my dad as a VERY large stomach (he weighs around 250-270 and is shorter than me) and I don't want to be like that.


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## Captain Shoggoth

Eat right. That doesn't mean starve-it means maintain a caloric deficit (take in less calories than you work off during the day (say 500kcal less than your maintenance amount) and eat healthy foods. That's the _proper_ way to lose weight, and really is the only viable way


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## Winspear

Captain Shoggoth said:


> Eat right. That doesn't mean starve-it means maintain a caloric deficit (take in less calories than you work off during the day (say 500kcal less than your maintenance amount) and eat healthy foods. That's the _proper_ way to lose weight, and really is the only viable way



Yep 

I kinda overskimmed your post OP:


niffnoff said:


> Uhhh, I couldn't tell you dude, but I'm just going through the paces, replacing fat for muscle hopefully  not that I'm massively over weight these days I just wanna do more than cardio and work outs.



Good time to mention that you can't exchange fat for muscle as is common belief. You can't build muscle while in a caloric deficit (i.e. losing fat) - the best you can do is maintain it.* 

Your options are: 
Bulk then cut- caloric excess, building muscle and perhaps a little fat. Cut later to reveal a body of more muscle than you had before.
Cut then bulk- caloric deficit, maintaning muscle (hopefully) and losing fat. End up skinny and toned, and then bulk slowly trying not to put on too much fat. 


*This isn't always _strictly_ true - seems quite a few people can make 'noob gains' whilst cutting fat. However, I'd still consider it a true statement and avoid thinking of this as a viable option.


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## Greatoliver

As well as the form over weight, I would say learn when to stop if something hurts. If you feel like you pull something, don't carry on going as actually injuring yourself can put you out for weeks. If it causes pain, then something is wrong.

Also, appreciate rest time - muscles need time to build, and overtraining is not going to build as much muscle if you let your muscles regrow.

There are some guys who give great advice here


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## SenorDingDong

Something that I didn't see yet (although I may be blind ) is a warm up; I believe that warming up is as important, if not more so, than exercising in the first place. 

Take a rubber band, brand new; if you try and stretch it far, it'll snap. Why? Because it's tight. Take a rubber band that has been worn in a bit, and you'll be able to stretch it a lot further because it is looser. 

That rubber band is your muscle; when it's "cold", it's like a brand new rubber band. After a warm up, your muscles are more like that good, dependable, worn-in rubber band, full of elasticity. 

Do a simple warm up so that your muscles aren't straining as much, even if that warm up simply involves moving your arms and legs around for a couple minutes, or doing a light weight set.


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## soliloquy

be careful on the arnold forms though.
he may have been MASSIVE, and was lifting far more than what normally people are lifting these days, but if you look at some of his old pictures, you'd see the weirdest forms ever. 
when lifting on his biceps using a barbell, he would arch his back completely, for example. 

however, reading up on it, you'd see reviewers saying that 'if you lifted that much, then you were forgiven'. 

so you may take arnolds workouts as a guide, but dont take his form.


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## TheBigGroove

soliloquy said:


> be careful on the arnold forms though.
> he may have been MASSIVE, and was lifting far more than what normally people are lifting these days, but if you look at some of his old pictures, you'd see the weirdest forms ever.
> when lifting on his biceps using a barbell, he would arch his back completely, for example.



While you do have a very good point for 'normal' folks, when you're a body builder lifting huge amounts of weight (tears into the muscle more and thus makes it bigger) during your bulking phase, you can cheat on the way up and really work the negative. I see this a LOT with biceps for body builders. They get the bar going with their body weight on the way up then let it down slowly. As I said in an earlier post, you really only tear into the muscle fibers on the negative (when you're letting the bar back down). So he is arching his back just to get the weight up there so he can let it down and do the more essential part of the workout in terms of body building and getting huge biceps. HOWEVER! if you're not a body builder who has a good amount of experience lifting and a good amount of muscle in your back, core, legs and everything else to keep yourself from getting hurt, you wouldn't really ever want to do this...it would just hurt you before it did any bit of good. Hope that made some kind of sense.


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## Uncreative123

JWGriebel said:


> Something that I didn't see yet (although I may be blind ) is a warm up; I believe that warming up is as important, if not more so, than exercising in the first place.
> 
> Take a rubber band, brand new; if you try and stretch it far, it'll snap. Why? Because it's tight. Take a rubber band that has been worn in a bit, and you'll be able to stretch it a lot further because it is looser.
> 
> That rubber band is your muscle; when it's "cold", it's like a brand new rubber band. After a warm up, your muscles are more like that good, dependable, worn-in rubber band, full of elasticity.
> 
> Do a simple warm up so that your muscles are straining as much, even if that warm up simply involves moving your arms and legs around for a couple minutes, or doing a light weight set.




Thanks professor. Since you're wrong about this too, you can choose to ignore it as well.

For those not quite up to date with the advances in our knowledge of stretching, here's the short version.


Stretching, regardless of form, does not reduce muscle soreness.
Static stretching, whether before or after exercise, does not prevent and, in excess, may even cause performance injuries.
Static stretching of a muscle before exercise decreases its subsequent performance.
Static stretching does not increase strength or muscle gains from resistance training.
To understand why, first look at what happens when you stretch a muscle. Broadly speaking, there are three mechanisms by which range of motion, passive or active, can be increased:
Viscoelasticity increases. Simply put, the more elastic a muscle, the more it can be stretched out. However, viscoelasticity isn't the same as elasticity, *and for this reason muscles are not at all like rubber bands, as often stated.*
"Like solid materials, they demonstrate _elasticity_ by resuming their original length once tensile force is removed. Yet, like liquids, they also behave _viscously_ because their response to tensile force is rate and time dependent" (Weppler & Magnusson, 2010).
Neural stretch tolerance increases. The more permissive the nervous system, the greater the ROM it allows the muscle-tendon structures to reach. There are several neural mechanisms, like agonist reflex activation, that contribute to the increased extensibility, but let's use neural stretch tolerance as a catch-all term for all neural processes here.
Muscle length increases. The longer a muscle, the longer its ROM. As such, increases in ROM can be due to any of these factors. The assumption of most stretching programs is that muscle length increases. However, this is based on outdated and methodologically flawed research with improper use of terminology.
The following is what really happens to the above properties when you stretch a muscle:
Viscoelasticity may increase after hard stretching, as in over two minutes, but this is only temporary.
Depending on the amount of stretching, viscoelasticity returns to baseline within about 10 minutes after two minutes of stretching; or 20 minutes after 4-8 minutes of stretching; or an hour after some seriously hardcore yoga.
Stretch tolerance increases.
As this is neural learning, like memorizing words, this is a more permanent adaptation. However, the increased stretch tolerance is lost over time and can be reinforced by repetition, much like words are gradually lost from memory and reinforced by repetition.
*Muscle (and tendon) length stay exactly the same.*

When you stretch a muscle, no permanent structural adaptations take place_._ All you do with most stretching programs is teach the nervous system that it's okay to relax the muscle a bit more when stretched.
Most of the neural adaptation actually is an increase in pain tolerance. Any increases in range of motion still present the day after the stretching are due to purely neural adaptations.
Let me emphasize for effect: You can't increase a muscle's length by stretching it.
This, of course, has far reaching implications for the use of stretching in flexibility training, warming up, and postural correction.


Based on the findings listed in the introduction, static stretching before your training sessions is a very bad idea. Dynamic stretching is also unnecessary, though some of the most effective warm-up drills are dynamic stretches.
According to the specificity principle, you should remember what it is you're preparing your body for during the warm-up. Activate the muscles that need activating, do a few compound dynamic stretching drills, and start on your main movement. Sometimes it's enough to just do the warm-up sets of the movement you're preparing for.
Whatever you do, you should normally be done with it in less than five minutes. Warm-ups are overrated, and the empirical evidence that extensive warm-ups enhance performance or decrease injuries is weak. Furthermore, evolutionarily speaking, it just wouldn't make sense if humans needed long warm-ups.


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## sverrejk

Yes I'm lifting weights! My record is 90kg in bench press.. not that much I think but I always progress so i'm going to try to reach one time at 100kg before this semester is over!  

High-intensity training is recommended if you've been lifting for half a year, you will need a spotter though but it helped me out A LOT. I went from 5 rep on 75kg on a GOOD DAY benching. To 8 reps on 80kg, when I followed a 3 week HIT(high intensity training) program! 

I think it's called mayo-reps(don't know what its called in English really ) 

But the main concept is; 
Pick a weight you can barely do 12 or 15 repetitions on
20 second break, then you lift 3 times(this is heavy as hell though)
20 seconds break, lift 3 times
20 seconds break, lift 3 times
20 seconds break, lift 3 times

You need a spotter because it should be impossible to do the last 2 sets without help. What this type of exercise does, is that you activate almost all the muscle fibers compared to "normal" exercise where you take 6-10reps on each set with a minute+\- break.

I did this for 3 weeks, and now I'm exercising "normally" for 3 weeks before I start with the HIT for 3 weeks, so I go in a 3week cycle with this until I'm happy with my muscles!  If that day ever comes I guess I'll exercise around 2 times a week just to keep in shape!


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## USMarine75

^ that's phenomenal! Wait, what's this _kg_ you speak of? 

Start lifting pounds then we can talk.


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## TheBigGroove

sverrejk said:


> I think it's called mayo-reps(don't know what its called in English really )
> 
> But the main concept is;
> Pick a weight you can barely do 12 or 15 repetitions on
> 20 second break, then you lift 3 times(this is heavy as hell though)
> 20 seconds break, lift 3 times
> 20 seconds break, lift 3 times
> 20 seconds break, lift 3 times



This is a solid workout....but for maximum strength/bulk gains you would, IMO need more rest between sets and try a different approach like this:

BENCH
-set 1 = warmup at about 15-20 reps at roughly 60% max
-set 2 = first workout set at 8 repetitions (the 8th rep needing assistance or a forced repetition)
-set 3 = add a 5 lb plate to each side and do 6 reps
-set 4 = add a 5 lb plate to each side and do 4 reps
-set 5 = add a 5 lb plate to each side and do 2-3 reps with the last one really working the negative.

after this i usally go back down to my first workout weight and try to get 8 reps again, but this really is more for the cutting factor. With this workout on flat bench I'm using 60lb dumbells for my warmup, 90's for first set, 95's for second, 100's for third and sometimes 110's for the last heavy set depending on how I'm feeling.

AGAIN, I'm no expert....this is all stuff I found on the net from guys that are way sronger and muscular than I'll ever be.


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## sverrejk

USMarine75 said:


> ^ that's phenomenal! Wait, what's this _kg_ you speak of?
> 
> Start lifting pounds then we can talk.



according to google:
90 kilograms = 198.416036 pounds, but I can only endure one repetition on 90kg, I managed to take 5 today on 85kg today though!(85 kilograms = 187.392923 pounds)
edit: must be wrong? Lol..
ninjaedit: guess not, wikipedia(<3)


> AGAIN, I'm no expert....this is all stuff I found on the net from guys that are way sronger and muscular than I'll ever bee.


me too, I have no education at this, but from personal experience this has helped me the most


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## SenorDingDong

Uncreative123 said:


> Thanks professor. Since you're wrong about this too, you can choose to ignore it as well.
> 
> For those not quite up to date with the advances in our knowledge of stretching, here's the short version.
> 
> 
> Stretching, regardless of form, does not reduce muscle soreness.
> Static stretching, whether before or after exercise, does not prevent and, in excess, may even cause performance injuries.
> Static stretching of a muscle before exercise decreases its subsequent performance.
> Static stretching does not increase strength or muscle gains from resistance training.
> 
> Based on the findings listed in the introduction, static stretching before your training sessions is a very bad idea. Dynamic stretching is also unnecessary, though some of the most effective warm-up drills are dynamic stretches.
> According to the specificity principle, you should remember what it is you're preparing your body for during the warm-up. Activate the muscles that need activating, do a few compound dynamic stretching drills, and start on your main movement. Sometimes it's enough to just do the warm-up sets of the movement you're preparing for.
> Whatever you do, you should normally be done with it in less than five minutes. Warm-ups are overrated, and the empirical evidence that extensive warm-ups enhance performance or decrease injuries is weak. Furthermore, evolutionarily speaking, it just wouldn't make sense if humans needed long warm-ups.



Where did I say "stretch before you work out"?

I said warm up, then talked about moving around or doing a light set.


Since my post apparently wasn't clear enough, the comparison between the rubber band and your muscle was made to show that, before a warm up, your muscles are tight and at more risk for an injury when stretched.


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## TheBigGroove

sverrejk said:


> according to google:
> 90 kilograms = 198.416036 pounds, but I can only endure one repetition on 90kg, I managed to take 5 today on 85kg today though!(85 kilograms = 187.392923 pounds)



Depending on your build and how long you've been lifting, this is a very respectable weight. I've been lifting for about a year now and can get 90kg 11 times. I'm 6'4, 205-210 lbs and lift for about 5-6 hours a week upper body, and 4 hours a month legs (my weekend job makes having sore legs unbearable). 

But from my experience the fact that you can get 85 kg for 5 reps would realistically mean you can get 90kg more like 2-3 times....but this can have a lot to do with teaching your body how to efficiently recruit more muscle fibers than you can now. I was lucky enough to grow up doing a lot of physical labor (from wayyyyy out in the country) which is why I feel I've gotten such quick results. However, I still haven't been able to reach my goal of 315 on the bench


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## soliloquy

TheBigGroove said:


> This is a solid workout....but for maximum strength/bulk gains you would, IMO need more rest between sets and try a different approach like this:
> 
> BENCH
> -set 1 = warmup at about 15-20 reps at roughly 60% max
> -set 2 = first workout set at 8 repetitions (the 8th rep needing assistance or a forced repetition)
> -set 3 = add a 5 lb plate to each side and do 6 reps
> -set 4 = add a 5 lb plate to each side and do 4 reps
> -set 5 = add a 5 lb plate to each side and do 2-3 reps with the last one really working the negative.
> 
> after this i usally go back down to my first workout weight and try to get 8 reps again, but this really is more for the cutting factor. With this workout on flat bench I'm using 60lb dumbells for my warmup, 90's for first set, 95's for second, 100's for third and sometimes 110's for the last heavy set depending on how I'm feeling.
> 
> AGAIN, I'm no expert....this is all stuff I found on the net from guys that are way sronger and muscular than I'll ever be.



why not try a reverse pyramid?
as in, start off with a heavy weight that you can do 4-6 reps on, drop the weight by 5-10 lbs and try it with 5-7 reps. and keep dropping the weight till you hit 10 or however you feel?


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## TheBigGroove

@soliloquoy - I'll have to try it...this was just the way I learned how to maximize strength gains...it seems pro athletes either use the pyramid style workout that I described OR do AMRAP stuff with 50% of their max.


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## Infamous Impact

This will keep you busy for a while, written by the authority on novice strength training. I'm still on this program after 4 months.


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## Harry

EtherealEntity said:


> Good time to mention that you can't exchange fat for muscle as is common belief. You can't build muscle while in a caloric deficit (i.e. losing fat) - the best you can do is maintain it.*



Sorry man, but that's just not accurate at all. That's an old bro myth.

It's entirely possible to build muscle mass using a caloric cyclical diet where one would be in a net caloric deficit over time. Periods of refeeding used to increase muscle mass despite the caloric deficit.
Bulk and cut phases are cool for guys that are on 'enhancements' or for natty guys that need to lean down to get into contest condition and are able to afford to lose a little bit of muscle.
For someone not planning to compete or not 'enhanced', a caloric cyclical diet is easily the best way to go.


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## ihunda

I did, for a few years, doing a 3x3 program from T-nation.com, then my wife got pregnant, I put on a lot of weight as a result  and now I am trying to motivate myself to go back !


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## Captain Shoggoth

Harry said:


> Sorry man, but that's just not accurate at all. That's an old bro myth.
> 
> It's entirely possible to build muscle mass using a caloric cyclical diet where one would be in a net caloric deficit over time. Periods of refeeding used to increase muscle mass despite the caloric deficit.
> Bulk and cut phases are cool for guys that are on 'enhancements' or for natty guys that need to lean down to get into contest condition and are able to afford to lose a little bit of muscle.
> For someone not planning to compete or not 'enhanced', a caloric cyclical diet is easily the best way to go.



This. I am simultaneously the most muscular and most lean I've ever been, I've sure as hell never done any dirty bulking, and I'm part way through a very moderate cut, but still gaining strength and muscle.


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## Murmel

Man, today I realized how much I fucking hate working chest. Might be becuase I have a very hard time progressing strength wise in that area (really, it takes ages compared to everything else). And my left shoulder doesn't really allow me to bench, I can barely get by with DB presses. For some reason my DB bench was super weak today.
Despite all of that, one thing I truly admire is a nice chest, so I'm just gonna stick to it.

My DL and squat on the other hand are increasing pretty good the last few weeks.


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## fassaction

EtherealEntity said:


> Also get a trainer to check your form



This....and start SLOW! I always see new people in the gym. They get in there and just try to lift up the whole stack on the first set. then you never see them again.

Start with light weights until you get the motions down and feel comfortable with the lifts.


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## Aevolve

Might be slightly off-topic, but close-grip dumbbell bench (the one for triceps where you keep your elbows close to your body) seems to be kind-of tough on my wrists. Anyone know any tricks to help?


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## Trypios

PeachesMcKenzie said:


> Might be slightly off-topic, but close-grip dumbbell bench (the one for triceps where you keep your elbows close to your body) seems to be kind-of tough on my wrists. Anyone know any tricks to help?



Don't bend your wrist, or try other exercises like skullcrashers or cable extensions

OP: Weight lifting standards


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## Aevolve

Trypios said:


> Don't bend your wrist, or try other exercises like skullcrashers or cable extensions
> 
> OP: Weight lifting standards



Well in order to have the bar at my mid-chest where it needs to be, my wrists bend slightly out of necessity. My arms don't go back that far.


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## Winspear

I found barbell to be a lot more comfortable.


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## UnderTheSign

EtherealEntity said:


> I found barbell to be a lot more comfortable.


Same here. Plates don't get in the way as much as they do w/ dumbbells, too.


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## bob123

Who lifts weights.... honestly .... 










You REALLY need to pick your goals first. Strength or size. Two very different methods. Im not a small dude to begin with, but Im much stronger then someone who's going for size. Im also not going to get "absolutely massive" with the way I lift. 

Proper lifts, pushing yourself to the limit, and correct form are all absolute necessities for any goal. 

Couple things 
1) go with someone who actually knows what they are doing a few times.
2) dont forget to listen to your body. If you're done, you're done. You need to know your limits. 
3) Dont be one of those howler monkey's that goes in, wildly slinging weights around, grunting like a mad man, and then dropping weights. I fucking HATE seeing those fucking clowns doing what I call "Full body Curls" with 40's, screaming at the mirror for 8 reps, and the dropping the weights. Its not cool, its not doing anything for you, and you look like a toolbag when you do it.



Good luck!! And Supplements are your friend


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## Aevolve

EtherealEntity said:


> I found barbell to be a lot more comfortable.


 My mistake- I actually meant barbell lol.


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## Wingchunwarrior

bob123 said:


> Who lifts weights.... honestly ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You REALLY need to pick your goals first. Strength or size. Two very different methods. Im not a small dude to begin with, but Im much stronger then someone who's going for size. Im also not going to get "absolutely massive" with the way I lift.
> 
> Proper lifts, pushing yourself to the limit, and correct form are all absolute necessities for any goal.
> 
> Couple things
> 1) go with someone who actually knows what they are doing a few times.
> 2) dont forget to listen to your body. If you're done, you're done. You need to know your limits.
> 3) Dont be one of those howler monkey's that goes in, wildly slinging weights around, grunting like a mad man, and then dropping weights. I fucking HATE seeing those fucking clowns doing what I call "Full body Curls" with 40's, screaming at the mirror for 8 reps, and the dropping the weights. Its not cool, its not doing anything for you, and you look like a toolbag when you do it.
> 
> 
> 
> Good luck!! And Supplements are your friend



Cheers........BRO..


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## TRENCHLORD

Nice guns^, but what's with the bunny ears lol.
I'm seeing now that alcohol might have been involved.


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## UnderTheSign

The pic reminds me of family guy, when Quagmire discovers the internet.. 

...Who drops the weight after curling. People do that, really?


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## Konfyouzd

UnderTheSign said:


> ...Who drops the weight after curling. People do that, really?



Badasses...  

There's this meat head at my gym always trying to lift stuff way too heavy for him and he pretty much drops whatever he's holding after getting it up one time. I wouldn't be as concerned as I am if he appeared to have even the slightest bit of control.


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## bob123

Konfyouzd said:


> Badasses...
> 
> There's this meat head at my gym always trying to lift stuff way too heavy for him and he pretty much drops whatever he's holding after getting it up one time. I wouldn't be as concerned as I am if he appeared to have even the slightest bit of control.




Yeah this is what Im talkin about really. If you're going for a max lift, thats one thing, but EVERY SET.... GTFO! 



LOL @ quagmire refrence  

Bunny ears, some chick was wearin em, I was drunk, she put em on me to take a picture. Not really sure why or what was going on, but yes, alcohol was most certainly a factor in this equation


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## TRENCHLORD

These guys might be even worse lol.
I never relized there were as many gym douchbag videos on youtube, this should keep me busy for awhile.


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## USMarine75

^ just do whatever this says...


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## bob123

TRENCHLORD said:


> These guys might be even worse lol.
> I never relized there were as many gym douchbag videos on youtube, this should keep me busy for awhile.





Im to the point where I dont have any patience with guys like this any more. If I see them setting around, I will usually go ask them to move so I can do my workout if they are in the way. 



And a BIG "Roger That" to the encyclopedia of modern body building. Its not just for men, and its not just for body builders. It has fantastic information for all types of training, even aerobic if you wish.


----------



## Trypios

How can you take this guy seriously?



Just kidding, Arnold is great and so is this guy..who's also natural

scooby1961 - YouTube


----------



## Infamous Impact

Trypios said:


> How can you take this guy seriously?
> 
> 
> 
> Just kidding, Arnold is great and so is this guy..who's also natural
> 
> scooby1961 - YouTube



Arnold wasn't natural, he just didn't use nearly the amount of steroids most bodybuilders do nowadays.
Scooby has a great physique but his teaching is basically from many different training methods, to the point where there's tons of contradictions. A lot of his nutrition advice is bro science too. It worked for him, but it doesn't guarantee it won't work for someone with different genetics.


----------



## Trypios

Infamous Impact said:


> Arnold wasn't natural, he just didn't use nearly the amount of steroids most bodybuilders do nowadays.



Sorry, my English is not so good. I never wanted to say that Arnold is a natural. That's insane  Only that Scooby is a great instructor and also a natural bodybuilder.
It's known that Arnold consumed dbol, primobolan and nandrolone. Mostly dbol


----------



## Aevolve

Hey guys- another topic that I had a question about that I didn't think warranted another thread.
I've always had trouble gaining size in my chest- and I know that many other people have similar issues.
Are there any specific routines or exercises that any of you have found success with as far as gaining size and strength in your chest? I know Phil Heath exclusively does incline exercises now because flat has such a high-risk of injury.


----------



## texshred777

PeachesMcKenzie said:


> Hey guys- another topic that I had a question about that I didn't think warranted another thread.
> I've always had trouble gaining size in my chest- and I know that many other people have similar issues.
> Are there any specific routines or exercises that any of you have found success with as far as gaining size and strength in your chest? I know Phil Heath exclusively does incline exercises now because flat has such a high-risk of injury.


 
Is your goal mostly size or strength? What are you doing now? How is your diet?

I tend to stick with very basic stuff for the most part..

For chest my typical exercises are 

Barbell Bench Press
Dumbbell Bench Press
Incline Dumbbell Press
Push Ups
Dips
Dumbbell Flys


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

225x7 today on bench. New PR!


----------



## Infamous Impact

PeachesMcKenzie said:


> Hey guys- another topic that I had a question about that I didn't think warranted another thread.
> I've always had trouble gaining size in my chest- and I know that many other people have similar issues.
> Are there any specific routines or exercises that any of you have found success with as far as gaining size and strength in your chest? I know Phil Heath exclusively does incline exercises now because flat has such a high-risk of injury.


How much do you bench? If you can take the pain, Smolov Jr for bench works. Currently doing that and the Smolov Squat routine to bust through this plateua I've had. I'm nearing the 2 plate bench and 3 plate squat.


Trypios said:


> Sorry, my English is not so good. I never wanted to say that Arnold is a natural. That's insane  Only that *Scooby is a great instructor* and also a natural bodybuilder.
> It's known that Arnold consumed dbol, primobolan and nandrolone. Mostly dbol


Oh, that understandable. And to the bolded part, NO.


----------



## Wingchunwarrior

USMarine75 said:


> ^ just do whatever this says...



Disagree with that, full of bro science


----------



## TRENCHLORD

PeachesMcKenzie said:


> Hey guys- another topic that I had a question about that I didn't think warranted another thread.
> I've always had trouble gaining size in my chest- and I know that many other people have similar issues.
> Are there any specific routines or exercises that any of you have found success with as far as gaining size and strength in your chest? I know Phil Heath exclusively does incline exercises now because flat has such a high-risk of injury.


 
Different things work for different people of course.
Having said that, most of the guys I've trained with (myself included) do better with a low number of extended sets instead of banging away for set after set of many seperate excersises per muscle group.

For example on chest, a couple extended worksets on bench should do the trick.
If you have a reliable and focused spotter/s then do a normal pyramid style warmup, then when it's time to do your work sets try going un-assisted until you hit the wall, then have your spotter barely touch the bar enough to help you squeeze out an additional rep or three.

If you don't have a sufficiantly strong or reliable spotter who knows how to help on forced reps, then just go until you hit failure then with zero seconds rest hit the floor and do pushups until failure (shouldn't take too many reps if you were already pumped and burning good).
This is effectively just a drop-set.

On other lifts that are a bit safer to do alone, these drop-sets can be a very productive way to accomplish alot with a lower volume style workout.
I absolutely love triple drop sets for shoulder and back excersises.
I'll ladder up to a weight that's right for 8-10 reps on behind the head overhead barbell press (approx 155-175), then upon failure I'll pull off one or two pairs of 10s and immediately start back in (takes about 10-15 seconds actually if alone) and once again rep until failure then pulloff another pair of tens and bang out a few more reps.
The pump and burn is tremendous.
Drop sets and forced reps are an especially effective tool when using smith-machines and cables (just because they're safer and quicker to change the pins).

Extra intensity techniques are great but also very demanding on your recovery systems, so use them wisely and lower the total training volume when using alot of them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hm51oFn-u2g


----------



## Aevolve

texshred777 said:


> Is your goal mostly size or strength? What are you doing now? How is your diet?


Well I'd like strength, and I'd like it to show. So I guess an even helping of both?
A few weeks ago I sprained my rotator cuff and I'll be getting back into lifts that involve my shoulders when I have someone educated to double-check my form. Before I hurt it I was doing:
- Flat barbell bench 4-6x3
- Flat dumbbell bench 4-6x3
- Incline dumbbell bench 4-6x3
- Cable crossovers 4-6x3

I eat as clean as I can, try to maximize protein and minimize fat. I'll have to admit I eat a good amount of carbs as well (multigrain bread mainly) and lots of skim organic milk.


Infamous Impact said:


> How much do you bench? If you can take the pain, Smolov Jr for bench works. Currently doing that and the Smolov Squat routine to bust through this plateua I've had. I'm nearing the 2 plate bench and 3 plate squat.
> .


I'm not sure of my max, as I've never had the opportunity to test. I'm 5'9"-5'10" and about 150 lbs. Before I hurt my shoulder I could rep 155 eight times. I'd rather not have to do any sort of lift that could cause unnecessary strain on my shoulders for fear of exacerbating any sort of injury that may be left over. I'm being very careful with them.


TRENCHLORD said:


> ...



Thanks for the info man  very helpful, I'll have to try it out.


----------



## Uncreative123

Trypios said:


> Sorry, my English is not so good. I never wanted to say that Arnold is a natural. That's insane  Only that Scooby is a great instructor and also a natural bodybuilder.
> It's known that Arnold consumed dbol, primobolan and nandrolone. Mostly dbol




lol, it wasn't mostly dbol. Dbol is a secondary compound, as is NPP. The staple was Primo. He was actually running a very conservative amount of Primo all things considered. The dbol on the other hand was ran fairly high, but more concerning was the LENGTH he ran it for. I saw something like 20 weeks plus 6 weeks for a bridge (bridge doesn't even make sense because they didn't even run PCT back in those days, lol). He's lucky he didn't absolutely destroy his liver. You're not suppose to run orals beyond 6 weeks (especially at that amount) because they're very hepatotoxic. 

Still, nothing compared to what's being run these days.


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> 225x7 today on bench. New PR!



oh fuck you 

nice one dude!


----------



## Murmel

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> 225x7 today on bench. New PR!



My little sister hangs out with some fuckers that are kinda like you; same age and lift like crazy.
My mom says I shouldn't scare them away when they visit. I wonder who's scared of who...


----------



## Stealthdjentstic

I used to lift until I got crippled (no relation) so now I am a bitter young man >:|


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Murmel said:


> My little sister hangs out with some fuckers that are kinda like you; same age and lift like crazy.
> My mom says I shouldn't scare them away when they visit. I wonder who's scared of who...


 Wow that's great man.  
There's a bunch of kids in my school who are insanely strong, and we're only a 2A school. For instance we have two seniors who rep sets of 10 at 315 of clean.


----------



## Uncreative123

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> Wow that's great man.
> There's a bunch of kids in my school who are insanely strong, and we're only a 2A school. For instance we have two seniors who rep sets of 10 at 315 of clean.





Are these the same people who were deadlifting 800+ lbs? lol


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

No. That was some guy claiming that kids in his school could do that, which i highly doubt.


----------



## Trypios

Possible, if those kids have no spine, or they're ants


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

^


----------



## Winspear

Last week in the gym I witnessed the most ridiculous thing;
Two skinny lads training triceps, doing cable pushdowns. They had the weights pretty much _stacked_ - not sure what amount but I'm a lot bigger than them and would push a 3rd of it at most. 
Dude was pretty much jumping up to the bar and wrestling it down underneath him into position, and then proceeding to get his reps out by his friend pushing down on his shoulders from behind. Oh my fuck 
I thought they had finally clued on when one of them failed to get 3 reps and said "Nope..too heavy", proceeding to reduce the weight by..oh. One plate 

Perhaps just as bad is the fact that in the duration of my chest/shoulders/arms workout I witnessed them train nothing but arms  Actually I'm wrong - they managed to fit in some abs too.


----------



## Bigsby

im surprised nobody has posted the "do you even lift" meme yet 







hopefully nobody will kick my ass cause im sure literally everybody in this thread could


----------



## UnderTheSign

EtherealEntity said:


> Last week in the gym I witnessed the most ridiculous thing;
> Two skinny lads training triceps, doing cable pushdowns. They had the weights pretty much _stacked_ - not sure what amount but I'm a lot bigger than them and would push a 3rd of it at most.
> Dude was pretty much jumping up to the bar and wrestling it down underneath him into position, and then proceeding to get his reps out by his friend pushing down on his shoulders from behind. Oh my fuck
> I thought they had finally clued on when one of them failed to get 3 reps and said "Nope..too heavy", proceeding to reduce the weight by..oh. One plate
> 
> Perhaps just as bad is the fact that in the duration of my chest/shoulders/arms workout I witnessed them train nothing but arms  Actually I'm wrong - they managed to fit in some abs too.


Well, at least they weren't just bicep warriors...
Every gym seems to have its idiots. I see guys bending their knees and 'jumping' up all the time doing curls, or dudes that perform what seems to be a dumbbell press/dumbbell fly combo. 

Have you ever seen someone spazz out like a jumping dolphin while doing dips?


----------



## bob123

Bear in mind, the most "Growth" comes from sets of 8-12, not 4-6. 

My 2 cents on this, I suggest doing higher reps first. This helps develop your stabilizer muscles, gets your endurance up, and gives you the satisfaction of the "bigger guns" you so desire.

After you do that for 3-6 months, then i suggest swappoing over to actual strength training.


And if you want size... do squats. Lots and lots of squats.

This is NOT a good rotation for chest/tris at your skill level. 

- Flat barbell bench 4-6x3
- Flat dumbbell bench 4-6x3
- Incline dumbbell bench 4-6x3
- Cable crossovers 4-6x3


----------



## ghostred7

If you want to build up core before bulk....here's a toning rep setup that is good to do once in a while....but mind you....it's a lot more suck than it appears on paper. All done w/ bare bar.

Bare bar: 30s non-stop
rest 30s
Bare bar: 45s non-stop
rest 30s
Bare bar: 60s non-stop

....make sure you do this when there's nothing you need your arms for next day. The regimen that sverrik mentioned is a great regimen, but is more of a bulking regimen. What I just mentioned is more of a "tone burn." We used to use this a lot in the military as part of our weight regimen. I think my max at one point & time was ~300lbs bench. I'd be lucky if I could press 100lbs now LOL. 

Also....do a proper pushup and hold it half way (elbows @ 45* angle). If you can't hold yourself there for a full minute....you need to build more core up (per my last trainer....can't vouch for accuracy).


----------



## Trypios

bob123 said:


> This is NOT a good rotation for chest/tris at your skill level.
> 
> - Flat barbell bench 4-6x3
> - Flat dumbbell bench 4-6x3
> - Incline dumbbell bench 4-6x3
> - Cable crossovers 4-6x3



For beginners that really want to push themselves..

- Flat barbell bench 5 sets: [12-10-8-6-6] (increase 5kg each time)
- Incline dumbbell bench [3sets: 6-8-10] (start heavy and decrease)
- Superset: High cable chest fly & Low cable chest fly [3sets: 10-12 each exercise] 
- Chest press machine [2 drop sets] (start as heavy as you can to do 4-6 reps. Immediately lower the weight to do 4-6 reps again. Do not rest. Rinse-repeat 'till you feel your chest and arms are going to detach

Add three eggs to your breakfast, eat a lot of tuna and chicken breast and buy some new shirts


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Hey so on cleans i need some help. I always see people hitting the bar off of their legs when they pop their hips on the pull. Everytime i try this, it fucks me up. I'm most likely doing the pop at the wrong time. I'm use to just muscling the weight up and almost rowing the weight when I get it past my knee's, which is hard with 245


----------



## Trypios

watch the master!


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

He made that look really easy.  I've only just started popping my hips and hitting the bar. I hit it right above my knee's though, which i think i should do it right at my hips.


----------



## edrod

If you're just starting to lift weights I would recommend the rippetoe workout

Week 1:

Monday - Workout A
Wednesday -Workout B
Friday - Workout A
Week 2:

Monday - Workout B
Wednesday - Workout A
Friday - Workout B
Etc. For the actual workouts read below:

Workout A:

3x5 Squat
3x5 Bench Press
1x5 Deadlifts
**2x8 Dips (if you cant do these or no assist machine then do Decline Dumbbell Bench Press with your hands Facing each other)
Click Here For A Printable Log Of Workout A.

Workout B:

3x5 Squat
3x5 Standing military press
3x5 Bent Rows (or power cleans)
**2x8 Chin-ups (recommended mainly if doing the cleans)
Note: This doesn't include warm-up sets (**)Means this is OPTIONAL


----------



## Infamous Impact

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> He made that look really easy.  I've only just started popping my hips and hitting the bar. I hit it right above my knee's though, which i think i should do it right at my hips.


You're doing it right, the second pull is mid-thigh.



edrod said:


> If you're just starting to lift weights I would recommend the rippetoe workout
> 
> Week 1:
> 
> Monday - Workout A
> Wednesday -Workout B
> Friday - Workout A
> Week 2:
> 
> Monday - Workout B
> Wednesday - Workout A
> Friday - Workout B
> Etc. For the actual workouts read below:
> 
> Workout A:
> 
> 3x5 Squat
> 3x5 Bench Press
> 1x5 Deadlifts
> **2x8 Dips (if you cant do these or no assist machine then do Decline Dumbbell Bench Press with your hands Facing each other)
> Click Here For A Printable Log Of Workout A.
> 
> Workout B:
> 
> 3x5 Squat
> 3x5 Standing military press
> 3x5 Bent Rows (or power cleans)
> **2x8 Chin-ups (recommended mainly if doing the cleans)
> Note: This doesn't include warm-up sets (**)Means this is OPTIONAL


Can't stress the amazingness of Starting Strength for anyone.


----------



## MFB

Any advice for keeping your heels planted while doing squats? My home workout consisted of doing indian squats which has you lifting yourself off the ground with your toes while obviously squatting, but when I get back to the gym I want to start doing squats and my problem is raising my heels while coming down. It's just such a natural reflex now from doing 40-50 at night I do it without thinking


----------



## TRENCHLORD

MFB said:


> Any advice for keeping your heels planted while doing squats? My home workout consisted of doing indian squats which has you lifting yourself off the ground with your toes while obviously squatting, but when I get back to the gym I want to start doing squats and my problem is raising my heels while coming down. It's just such a natural reflex now from doing 40-50 at night I do it without thinking


 
Wrestling shoes are great for gym training.
Basketball and standard crosstraining shoes have a rounded heel that can cause rolling back and forward if not real carful.


----------



## Winspear

I wear flat skating trainers, anything flat will help I guess.

Toes pointing out slightly.

Gradually widen your stance until you find one that lets you keep your heels down. Once you've got that you'll generally be able to stand closer if you wish and still keep them down.

Also something that helped me get nice and low and keep heels down and knees behind toes, and has worked for my friends too, is how I think when I squat - in two motions;
1) Bend at the knees and ankles until your knees are almost above your toes. Stop there - your knees will not come forward any more.
2) Bend ONLY at the knees into a deep sitting position. 

Thinking of it like that really helped my form. Obviously once you are comfortable with it you translate it to one smooth motion.

When I was helping my friends with that, they found 2) difficult. I realised it was just a confidence thing after putting a bench under them they could do it just fine. They were afraid to fall backwards, but once they had felt the motion with a bench were able to do it without.


----------



## Winspear

I like to keep my knees back a fair amount. Much more this







as opposed to this 






But not quite as extreme haha. I don't think I could balance that well with a weight!


----------



## Winspear

You don't need to keep your knees strictly behind your toes - just not too far forward. Bringing them too far forward will make your heels come up. Keep them out, too.
Basically, none of this;


----------



## MFB

Yeah, I think right now I'm over-thinking it while I do it (trying to keep my heels planted) so I end up lifting them off and ending in that position, so I'll probably try just bending at the knees since when I do the Indian Squats its two movements; so that's probably why I end up acting like I'm doing an IS when I want to just do a regular squat. I'm trying to do two movements again, but my previous exercise of two movements conditioned me to raise my heels so I'll try bending at JUST the knees and break that two move habit.


----------



## SirMyghin

MFB - you may also need to stretch your soleus some (stretch calves with bent knee), as if that is tight you will never get to the bottom of your squat without your heels lifting. 

The best way to build this flexibility is by forcing it through squats however, and keeping your weight back. To get around it some folks like to sit their heels elevated, on a 2x4, or a plate, until they become more flexible. The lift on the heel helps some folks whose proportions may not lend to a good deep squat get down there too.


----------



## MFB

So are those like reverse calf-raises? Where you'd left your heel hang off and raise yourself with your toes, but in this case you're doing the opposite?


----------



## Winspear

I think he means just squatting with a board under your heels. Seen a lot of people do that.


----------



## UnderTheSign

Personally, I deadlift and squat barefoot - feels much more stable to me for some reason. Just gotta hope your shoes don't stink too much when you take them off!


----------



## Murmel

So I did legs today, and for some reason I can feel it in my lats now.

What the fuck


----------



## Infamous Impact

Murmel said:


> So I did legs today, and for some reason I can feel it in my lats now.
> 
> What the fuck


Either you have weak lats (stabilization?) or bad form.


----------



## Murmel

Probably my form that was awful today. This is the first time it has happened, weirded me out a bit


----------



## Infamous Impact

Murmel said:


> Probably my form that was awful today. This is the first time it has happened, weirded me out a bit


You're probably doing good mornings on your squats. Don't lean forward too much on them.


----------



## Murmel

I did recall leaning forward more than usual today. Might be the answer to why this happened


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

So as of right now, for my age and weightclass (Medium Build). Sophomore (16) Height 6'1" Weight 195
I rate all American in all four core lifts. 
Bench 280 (270 needed for A.A.)
Squat 375 (370 needed)
Clean 230 (210 needed) I could probably clean much more if it weren't for terrible form.
Deadlift 440 (440 needed  )


----------



## jaxadam

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> So as of right now, for my age and weightclass (Medium Build). Sophomore (16) Height 6'1" Weight 195
> I rate all American in all four core lifts.
> Bench 280 (270 needed for A.A.)
> Squat 375 (370 needed)
> Clean 230 (210 needed) I could probably clean much more if it weren't for terrible form.
> Deadlift 440 (440 needed  )



That is really, really fucking good, dude, especially for your age and stats.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

Murmel said:


> I did recall leaning forward more than usual today. Might be the answer to why this happened


 
That could be the cause, but I'd also add that when you keep your chest out and up correctly and stay rigid and tight through your arms,shoulders,and upper back,
that it is entirely possible to get some outer lat soreness the next day from proper squating.
Especially if you just begining squats or have laid off them for awhile.

I've seen so many guys that simply let the bar sit dead on their spine with no resistance whatsoever.
These are the guys that always end up complaining about the bar hurting the spot where it rest. That's when they start wrapping towels around the bar or buy a pad.

Keeping a slight squeeze through your traps and inner spine muscles, along with rolling the bar back to the perfect spot (not at the base of neck) helps allot in many regaurds.


----------



## Tiger

I wish I had someone to properly teach me clean's.


----------



## TheBigGroove

I wish I had never done cleans in my life and my back still felt nice....I suppose the cutting down trees and setting chokers every summer didn't help either


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Yeah i really don't like doing cleans much at all. Cleans and front squats are the two lifts i do not like at all.


----------



## Harry

Murmel said:


> I did recall leaning forward more than usual today. Might be the answer to why this happened



What kind of setup are you using for squatting (i.e, low bar/high bar, very narrow stance, moderately wide etc)?


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

I love front squats, but I hate overhead press and clean grip. I always used to do it pronated so supinated makes my wrists (especially right wrist) hurt. A lot.


----------



## Murmel

Harry said:


> What kind of setup are you using for squatting (i.e, low bar/high bar, very narrow stance, moderately wide etc)?



I'm currently using a smith machine. Low bar (I guess) and about shoulder wide stance.
They don't have a squat rack at my current gym, but once my membership expires I'm gonna change to something larger and closer to school.


----------



## Infamous Impact

Murmel said:


> I'm currently using a smith machine. Low bar (I guess) and about shoulder wide stance.
> They don't have a squat rack at my current gym, but once my membership expires I'm gonna change to something larger and closer to school.


Whatever you do, STAY AWAY from the Smith. Do it even if it means you have to use dumbbells. That thing is death.


----------



## Murmel

I haven't had any problem at all with it, except I feel like it's going to break because it wiggles around sometimes 
As soon as I get hold of a squat rack I'll use that, obviously.


----------



## Tiger

You're better off not using it, just my two cents.


----------



## Infamous Impact

After seeing Stoitsov, Klokov, and the Chinese Olympic weightlifting team, I've decided I'm going to do Olympic lifting after this Smolov routine. The movements are so fun!


----------



## UnderTheSign

T NATION | Why I Love the Smith Machine


----------



## Tiger

Thats fine. There are numerous ways to target a specific muscle group and engage hypertrophy. You can do that on tons of machines. It doesnt = squatting.


----------



## Infamous Impact

That is insane. Strict press, then bringing it back down controlled instead of dropping it, BEFORE steroids.


----------



## UnderTheSign

Tiger said:


> Thats fine. There are numerous ways to target a specific muscle group and engage hypertrophy. You can do that on tons of machines. It doesnt = squatting.


Of course, no one ever said it did. In the absence of a proper squat rack it might be a (somewhat decent) substitute though and it's certainly not the satanic evil machine the internet makes it to be.


----------



## Murmel

^
I'm not even loading it heavy, you guys have to remember I'm weak a piece of ass 
Deadlifts are my strongest lift and it's like 85kg or something so.


----------



## Fiction

Signed up to a gym today, first time I've ever been.

Wasn't really paying attention to what I was lifting and have no idea of what sort of lifts I was doing (Sounds Promising) But I just started with the smallest weight and kept adjusting it if it was too light, Doing 10 then having a break while the guy I was there with did 10 then swapped, we were doing 3 reps of each.. 

Eventually my arms wouldn't lift so I just went on the bikes for a while and came back and was just working with some 30kg bar, doing 7 Chest to chin, 7 Waist to Chest then 7 Waist to Chin with the bar for 3 sets.. I felt sore by the end of it, but not feeling anything now (Maybe 3 hours after) But I'm expecting to be sore tomorrow haha.


----------



## Uncreative123

Infamous Impact said:


> Whatever you do, STAY AWAY from the Smith. Do it even if it means you have to use dumbbells. That thing is death.




How do you figure it's DEATH? I use to stay away from it, but I'm glad I don't know. Just because most people are dumb-fucks with it and don't have a clue what they're doing doesn't make it a useless or even counterproductive tool. The same people who use it wrong do everything else wrong too. The smith is great for reverse-lunges off a raised platform and for front squats. I use it for incline benching sometimes*. Then I have a mix of barbell (decline) free-weights (flat-bench) and smith. It's not something I use to do, but have been doing lately.

Here's Jay Cutler doing front squats on a Smith- proof that they are very useful:
Jay Cutler Smith Front Squat- video

The T-Nation article nailed it.


----------



## Uncreative123

I would just like to add my most recent and worst gym experience ever as well. I just got signed up at a new gym yesterday. I haven't been in an actual gym in almost two weeks. Partly due to being on the road and the other part because I was putting it off due to moving. I was somewhat hesitant or nervous about a new gym, which is totally out of character for me. I've been to so many different gyms over the course of the last couple years and it use to be something I would look forward to. So if anyone else is putting it off due to some sort of nervousness or laziness, just go in, do it, and get it over with so you can get started. You will acclimate very fast. 

Just don't go to my gym. I'm already thinking about canceling mine although I really don't want to and probably won't. It's not the most conveniently located gym for me, but it is the best in terms of equipment. 
So last night, there I was on my first set of my heaviest bench. I was going to be in the 5 rep range. After the second rep out of NOWHERE some fucking total dipshit comes and stands right over me to give me a spot that I didn't even need or ask for. COMPLETELY threw me off. I had no idea what the fuck he was thinking or doing. And the best part was that this fat fuck was sweaty as shit and as I was getting up to yell at this shithead his sweat dripped onto my forehead. I've never been so disgusted in my life. Even when I asked him why the hell he would ever think that was a good idea he didn't have an answer. Just tried to apologize. I seriously don't know what the fuck this guy was thinking, but hopefully it's the last time he does something so thoughtless and stupid. It's not like I was struggling on the last rep or trapped under the bar- I had just started! I'm getting pissed again just thinking about it.


----------



## Murmel

In respone to the death posts about the smith, I decided to try some regular squatting today.
You CAN squat in the gym, they just don't have a dedicated rack for it. Just a small, very unstable rack without any safety things. I gave it a shot since I don't load heavy anyways. It was different for sure, my form was probably a bit off since it was my first time, and the part of having to balance for yourself threw me off a bit. But I think I'll go with regular squats from now on. They seem to be favoured anyway.


----------



## Blake1970

Tonight is shoulders and triceps. I'm going to try face pulls for the first time.

face pulls - YouTube.


----------



## Infamous Impact

Uncreative123 said:


> How do you figure it's DEATH? I use to stay away from it, but I'm glad I don't know. Just because most people are dumb-fucks with it and don't have a clue what they're doing doesn't make it a useless or even counterproductive tool. The same people who use it wrong do everything else wrong too. The smith is great for reverse-lunges off a raised platform and for front squats. I use it for incline benching sometimes*. Then I have a mix of barbell (decline) free-weights (flat-bench) and smith. It's not something I use to do, but have been doing lately.
> 
> Here's Jay Cutler doing front squats on a Smith- proof that they are very useful:
> Jay Cutler Smith Front Squat- video
> 
> The T-Nation article nailed it.


The Smith isn't death for most things, but the back squat is just terrible to do on the Smith. Most other exercises wouldn't put a heavy load on your spine in an unnatural movement like a Smith back squat, hence why you should avoid it, for that particular exercise. Front squats are fine on it, front squats are a lot less heavy on your back.



Uncreative123 said:


> I would just like to add my most recent and worst gym experience ever as well. I just got signed up at a new gym yesterday. I haven't been in an actual gym in almost two weeks. Partly due to being on the road and the other part because I was putting it off due to moving. I was somewhat hesitant or nervous about a new gym, which is totally out of character for me. I've been to so many different gyms over the course of the last couple years and it use to be something I would look forward to. So if anyone else is putting it off due to some sort of nervousness or laziness, just go in, do it, and get it over with so you can get started. You will acclimate very fast.
> 
> Just don't go to my gym. I'm already thinking about canceling mine although I really don't want to and probably won't. It's not the most conveniently located gym for me, but it is the best in terms of equipment.
> So last night, there I was on my first set of my heaviest bench. I was going to be in the 5 rep range. After the second rep out of NOWHERE some fucking total dipshit comes and stands right over me to give me a spot that I didn't even need or ask for. COMPLETELY threw me off. I had no idea what the fuck he was thinking or doing. And the best part was that this fat fuck was sweaty as shit and as I was getting up to yell at this shithead his sweat dripped onto my forehead. I've never been so disgusted in my life. Even when I asked him why the hell he would ever think that was a good idea he didn't have an answer. Just tried to apologize. I seriously don't know what the fuck this guy was thinking, but hopefully it's the last time he does something so thoughtless and stupid. It's not like I was struggling on the last rep or trapped under the bar- I had just started! I'm getting pissed again just thinking about it.


This is why I'm saving up for a home gym.


----------



## Tiger

^ Ditto. Getting this over the weekend off craigslist for $220

1 olympic bar
6x45lbs
2x25lbs
2x10lbs
2x5lbs
2x plate claps


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

The fact that I train at home, usually alone, is probably my favourite thing about training 

*EDIT:* question for those so inclined to help

This is gonna sound so typically amateur bro gym rat-ish, but does anyone have any tips for _upper_ body growth? A year and a half of deep squatting and an ectomorph's upper body mean that I'm 5'7 with a 34" chest, 12" bis and 21.5" thighs


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Dead lifted 480 today. Started at 425, adding ten pounds each rep til i did 475, then added two 2.5lb plates and stopped after that. Probably could have gone higher if it wasn't for the other reps.


----------



## Cabinet

>2012
>Not doing THE RACK



But I actually started more weight lifting and bench pressing today and I realized how weak my upper body is


----------



## Murmel

^
Just keep at it dude, I was weak as fuck when I started out 5 months ago. I'm still not very strong, but you'll get there. Just remember to eat. I suck at eating and would probably have seen much faster results with a better diet.
My weakest lift is definitely bench, while my strongest is deadlift.


----------



## UnderTheSign

Captain Shoggoth said:


> The fact that I train at home, usually alone, is probably my favourite thing about training
> 
> *EDIT:* question for those so inclined to help
> 
> This is gonna sound so typically amateur bro gym rat-ish, but does anyone have any tips for _upper_ body growth? A year and a half of deep squatting and an ectomorph's upper body mean that I'm 5'7 with a 34" chest, 12" bis and 21.5" thighs


Deadlifts? Presses? Bench?


----------



## Infamous Impact

Captain Shoggoth said:


> The fact that I train at home, usually alone, is probably my favourite thing about training
> 
> *EDIT:* question for those so inclined to help
> 
> This is gonna sound so typically amateur bro gym rat-ish, but does anyone have any tips for _upper_ body growth? A year and a half of deep squatting and an ectomorph's upper body mean that I'm 5'7 with a 34" chest, 12" bis and 21.5" thighs


Dude... My upper body and thighs were around those before I started lifting... Do you eat enough? Are you following a program? If so, what is it? Also, what do you do other than squats? The main compounds (squats, deadlifts, bench, press, rows, weighted pullups, weighted dips) will give you lots of mass simply from consistency and eating.


----------



## TankJon666

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> So as of right now, for my age and weightclass (Medium Build). Sophomore (16) Height 6'1" Weight 195
> I rate all American in all four core lifts.
> Bench 280 (270 needed for A.A.)
> Squat 375 (370 needed)
> Clean 230 (210 needed) I could probably clean much more if it weren't for terrible form.
> Deadlift 440 (440 needed  )



Are these your one rep maxes?


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

Infamous Impact said:


> Dude... My upper body and thighs were around those before I started lifting... Do you eat enough? Are you following a program? If so, what is it? Also, what do you do other than squats? The main compounds (squats, deadlifts, bench, press, rows, weighted pullups, weighted dips) will give you lots of mass simply from consistency and eating.



I led a completely sedentary lifestyle, was unfit as hell and stereotypically skinnyfat before I started lifting dude 

I'm intermittent fasting at the moment, but I solidly eat enough, my current weekly routine consists of primarily (relatively) high weight and low reps training and has done so for a while, with a bit of hypertrophy thrown in.

My approach to training was pretty uneducated largely until September 2011, as was diet, and I didn't supplement up until that point. I've only been doing the whole combo (smart lifting, smart eating, smart supplementing) since the start of 2012.

I'm doing all compound lifts (overhead/front/back squats, deadlifts, bench, overhead press/overhead push press, dips and chinups, getting a dip belt to do weighted dips and chins), and I'm not huge, but I DO know a good amount about training and diet. 

I'm trying to minimise my bodyfat at the moment via Leangains but after that period I'm going into a hard clean bulk, so I'll see what happens then.



UnderTheSign said:


> Deadlifts? Presses? Bench?



I don't try one rep maxes, the maximum I've done for reps on any of those would be (in kg) 102.5/42.5/50


----------



## Infamous Impact

To all the ass to grass squatters, how low do you go? I managed to get stuck yesterday at a ridiculously low depth, after hitting the safety pins with the bar. My friend told me I was less than an inch from touching the ground!


----------



## TRENCHLORD

TankJon666 said:


> Are these your one rep maxes?


 
They were, but he's already gotten stronger since then .


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

TankJon666 said:


> Are these your one rep maxes?


Yeah they were, but Wednesday i got 480 in squat after a long climb of one reps from 425 to 475, then 480. So by my figuring if i wouldn't have done all the others i could have gotten 500.  
Tomorrow i'm going for 350 on front squat.

HUGE MAJOR EDIT: I meant to say deadlift, not squat. I don't squat 480  I wish i did.


----------



## Uncreative123

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> Yeah they were, but Wednesday i got 480 in squat after a long climb of one reps from 425 to 475, then 480. So by my figuring if i wouldn't have done all the others i could have gotten 500.
> Tomorrow i'm going for 350 on front squat.



Didn't you say you were going to post pics like a month ago?


----------



## Tiger

Infamous Impact said:


> To all the ass to grass squatters, how low do you go? I managed to get stuck yesterday at a ridiculously low depth, after hitting the safety pins with the bar. My friend told me I was less than an inch from touching the ground!



I go about 3 or 4 inches from the ground. The issue would be your lower back rounding.


----------



## Infamous Impact

Tiger said:


> I go about 3 or 4 inches from the ground. The issue would be your lower back rounding.


I didn't feel like my back was rounding, I'm going to take a video and see what's happening. I should've mentioned I was front squatting too.


----------



## UnderTheSign

Captain Shoggoth said:


> I don't try one rep maxes, the maximum I've done for reps on any of those would be (in kg) 102.5/42.5/50


Wasn't asking for max lifts, but suggesting things that might help you build upper body mass. Doing those it should be easy enough I reckon.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Uncreative123 said:


> Didn't you say you were going to post pics like a month ago?


 Oh yeah, i totally forgot about that.
On another note, 245x4 on bench today.
Edit: Just took three pictures, one of my stomach area and chest, then my back (tried to get back muscles), and then my left bicep.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

The pictures of me with the really long hair are from the fall of my freshman year in football. I am now a Sophomore. Turned 16 two months ago.
The pictures were taken with my shitty cellphone, so forgive the quality.  I'll try to bring my Ipod in the weight room with me on Monday to get my Cleans and Squats recorded.


----------



## Tiger

You look strangely tiny to have such heavy lifts.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Tiger said:


> You look strangely tiny to have such heavy lifts.


I weigh 195. Not that tiny dude. 
I'll upload video's next week if i can get my ipod into the weight room, our teacher is anal about ipods in there. But i'll try to get it in there, and i'll have proof.


----------



## Tiger

No not doubting, I pay attention to that kind of thing because I periodize my lifting in a sometimes futile effort to get strong without getting bigger. So if you've got a 480 squat thats
breaking parallel then I am impressed.


----------



## USMarine75

^ You must be naturally strong then, because when I was that size and age I could barely push 205 for reps. Good on you if you're really pushing that kind of weight with correct form! 

I was 5'9 190 then when I played football, but I'm 205 now (and prob significantly shorter than you) and I can only rep 275x4 (typical 135x12 warmup, 225x10, 265x8, 275x4 workout... I never max because I'm old and I like my shoulders )


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Tiger said:


> No not doubting, I pay attention to that kind of thing because I periodize my lifting in a sometimes futile effort to get strong without getting bigger. So if you've got a 480 squat thats
> breaking parallel then I am impressed.


I haven't gained weight in forever, but i'm getting so much stronger so quickly. For instance, i never use to do squats or anything, but i always had strong legs. I started this year in September and have gone to 295 to 375 on squat. 
I lift Monday Wednesday and Friday. 2x a day.
It's 480 on deadlift, not squat. My goal is 400+ on squat by football season 

And about being naturally strong, my dad is a big guy with a huge chest. He can rep 315 quite a few times. 


Oh yeah, 1,000th post!!!!!!!


----------



## Tiger

USMarine75 said:


> ^ You must be naturally strong then, because when I was that size and age I could barely push 205 for reps. Good on you if you're really pushing that kind of weight with correct form!



At my last command I was with an Army guy in my class that was just a genetic monster, like those bulls you see whos genes have been spliced to be gigantic, you know? Dude never lifted or anything, if we werent in class he was out drinking, but when he'd come hang out at the gym he was just devastating.

I hate those people.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Tiger said:


> At my last command I was with an Army guy in my class that was just a genetic monster, like those bulls you see whos genes have been spliced to be gigantic, you know? Dude never lifted or anything, if we werent in class he was out drinking, but when he'd come hang out at the gym he was just devastating.
> 
> I hate those people.


 I hear that from people all the time. People always call me Sasquatch because i'm so strong and hairy for my age.


----------



## USMarine75

^ I knew a few and yeah I hate them too. One dude who was 6'5 and 265 that was from the swamp and never showered and refused to take off his boots ever for weeks on end and when he did... but I digress. Anywho, we were benching and I'm probably doing 225x10... I convince him to lift and he's giving me the "I've never lifted before, what do I do?" in his best (and real) Bubba Gump voice... so I show him how to bench and he blows out 10 and hooks it up. We're all speechless and I make a comment about if he wanted to do another set and he asked if he was supposed to stop. He only stopped at 10 because I did. We should have seen how many he could do but our base got shelled and we never got back to it... but damn, what a freak! I had another bud that looked like Sloth from the Goonies... ugliest and funniest dude I've ever known and he would go to the gym a couple times a year and just deadliest, clean, etc... and it was nasty how much weight he could push... meanwhile I had to work 20+ years for meh results...

Oh and update... I tore one of my intercostal muscles last week... so I'll prob be 150 lbs by the time I can lift again (~ 6 weeks)


----------



## jaxadam

USMarine75 said:


> I tore one of my intercostal muscles last week... so I'll prob be 150 lbs by the time I can lift again (~ 6 weeks)



I feel your pain. Been there, done that!


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Torn muscles are not fun man. Sorry to hear


----------



## Uncreative123

Tiger said:


> No not doubting, I pay attention to that kind of thing because I periodize my lifting in a sometimes futile effort to get strong without getting bigger. So if you've got a 480 squat thats
> breaking parallel then I am impressed.




This. And there are no pictures of the legs. Regardless, with a frame like that I can tell you cannot support a 480 squat.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Uncreative123 said:


> This. And there are no pictures of the legs. Regardless, with a frame like that I can tell you cannot support a 480 squat.


My bad!!! Meant 480 deadlift!!
I don't know why i put squat in there, but i meant to say deadlift.  Sorry for the confusion! I understand why you doubted me before. 
My max squat is only 375.

Also, how should i go about taking a picture of my legs?


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

On another note, there is a senior in my high school who is 6' 205lb, who is going to play college ball, and he squats 495. He also is competing in high school lifting with power clean, his max with 315 is eight reps...  
Google him, he'll probably come up. His name is Keenen Walker, insanely strong and fast guy with a not huge frame.

http://www.ncsasports.org/football-recruiting/wa/port-angeles/port-angeles-high-school/keenen-walker


----------



## Uncreative123

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> My bad!!! Meant 480 deadlift!!
> I don't know why i put squat in there, but i meant to say deadlift.  Sorry for the confusion! I understand why you doubted me before.
> My max squat is only 375.
> 
> Also, how should i go about taking a picture of my legs?




Like any other picture but lower? lol, you could also do a full body shot. I'd still be suspect of a 375 legitimate squat. Even when I was at my biggest I think I was around 365-370. I can't remember how much you said you weigh though. I've seen people at the gym "squatting" 315-365 who honestly couldn't even squat 225. It's almost terrifying to watch. They weren't even doing quarter-squats, but I'm sure in their mind it was below parallel. The best thing to do, and what everyone should do at some point, is just take a camera with you and film yourself to check your form. Then you'll know if you're going deep enough and whether or not you're rounding your back, bouncing, etc. Yes, it can be a little embarrassing to film yourself in the gym, but don't worry about what other people think. They should be focusing on themselves anyway.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

I'll be doing some better pictures in the very near future, but these will have to suffice for the moment.
I just shot these a minute ago with the camera's timer, so it was kind of a pain having to hit the button and get to my spot and attempt to flex lol.
Then I was just getting used to the timer cadence when the batteries ran out (uuuuhhhhgggg).

I was exactly 246 on May 1st, and am 239 yesterday morning (I always do my weight check first thing in the morning but after taking a leak), just to get an accurate consistent measurement.

246 was my highest ever (morning dry naked) weight. I'm 5'8" and 37.5yrs old.
I gluttonized very hard to get to 246, tons of good food, beer, and a couple daily protien shakes.

The things I've changed in the last 12 days to lose an initial 7 pounds are;
Cut down from a six-pack/night to 3/night (boston lager ftw), Cut out junk snacks and deserts, almost eliminated all carbs except whole grains and fibers (which I'm still getting a modest amount of).
And fortunately I'm not a sugar drink person (except for the beer), so that's not an issue.

My short-term goal is to be about 232 and noticably harder looking (and much tanner lol) by the end of the month, at which time I'll be better prepared and rehearsed a bit for more pics. 
Flexing properly is a helluva lot harder than most people think. Notice how I forgot to rotate my wrist to make the peaks stand up a little better.
I haven't really flexxed since about 2005 when I was training at a nice gym with mirrors all around lol.


----------



## Ryan-ZenGtr-

Good reading, Gents. Advice, cool stories and motivation. 

I used to play a lot of sport and exercise but lately I've been slacking. A few friends of mine are serious martial arts competitors, always keen to try out there new move on unsuspecting friends. Quite educational, but vertebrae are unforgiving. 

+1 for the Million Dollar Wonder!!!

_One of the guys had this great flat with a pro gym on the ground floor, one of the main pluses for him. So a few of us went down there after hanging out and extended challenges. I attempted to use some kind of device (mechanical bench press) clearly designed in the far future for crushing mortals. Being used to free weights I could barely begin to shift it's automaton-like bulk. 

It was pretty funny for everyone else though...

*inner thoughts* "I'm pushing as hard as I can.... but... nothing is happening... hmmmm."
_

As with everyone else I'll put my :2cents: ... I keep my weights at the top of the stairs (2 story house). Every time I pass them I do a set. 

^^*if I'm feeling motivated*


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Holy shit Trenchlord, you're god damn huge. 
My friend Eagle, is 5'7", 145 and ass to grass squats 360.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> Holy shit Trenchlord, you're god damn huge.
> My friend Eagle, is 5'7", 145 and ass to grass squats 360.


 
Thanks man.
Back in the early-mid 2000s I was getting 315 for 6-8reps on squat, but have since just about gave them up (only do them a couple times a year for fun.

When my son was about 1yr old (07), I decided to slack off on the heavy stuff in order to pace myself so that I wouldn't get too used up before he was at an age of more permanent memory.
Well that time has come (he's turning 6 in november). 
I didn't want to be one of these guys telling their kids; "back when I was young I could bench 500 and squat a thousand pounds".
In 07 my deadlift got up to 525 max and 455 for 8reps.
My best bench days were 295 for 8 and 315 for 6.
Since then it's been off and on, and not too heavy, but I'm in full comeback mode now.
Gotta ease out of this beer flab.


I just picked this up from a from a guy in Indiana.





Once I get it put back together, I'll for the first time in 5yrs be able to bench to failure and do squats again.
Lifting alone at home is great otherwise, and it's nice getting to play metal instead of having to lift to Pink Caddilac and I Will Always Love You .
I'm sure even 225 will be sufficiant to begin with on squat.


----------



## TheShreddinHand

Uncreative123 said:


> Like any other picture but lower? lol, you could also do a full body shot. I'd still be suspect of a 375 legitimate squat. Even when I was at my biggest I think I was around 365-370. I can't remember how much you said you weigh though. I've seen people at the gym "squatting" 315-365 who honestly couldn't even squat 225. It's almost terrifying to watch. They weren't even doing quarter-squats, but I'm sure in their mind it was below parallel. The best thing to do, and what everyone should do at some point, is just take a camera with you and film yourself to check your form. Then you'll know if you're going deep enough and whether or not you're rounding your back, bouncing, etc. Yes, it can be a little embarrassing to film yourself in the gym, but don't worry about what other people think. They should be focusing on themselves anyway.



The one thing that pisses me off more than anything is people that don't squat to parrellel or lower! Argh! Followed closely by those that go about halfway down on a dumbell or bar press with more weight then they could ever handle touching their chest and using full range of motion!

Eric


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

Holy shit Trench, you're an absolute beast! I feel so tiny


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Uncreative123, depending on the day i weigh anywhere from about 195-205  So i'd say 200.
And Trenchlord, that is pretty crazy man. You're a beast. Tomorrow our set for lifting is 3x5 (my school does the bigger faster stronger program) And i'll try to record my last set of squats at 315. It'll be nice to get actual feedback from people who know what they're talking about other than my weight training teacher who says "If it doesn't hurt you're probably doing it right"


----------



## TRENCHLORD

Takes a very long time to build naturaly.
My progression was slow and study, and consistancy was the main thing.
summer of 97- bad breakup, didn't want to dwell in the negative so at almost 23 got into the gym at 165 pounds. Read all magazines could get hands on and began protein shakes.

98- Was up to 185 by summer and started hitting the main lifts more and doing cleans and full squats.

99- in this year only gained 10 so ended the millinium at about 195

00- Started making the 30min drive up to Charleston and training at a gym owned and opperated by Mark Sosamon (94 NPC jr. national heavyweight champ), this was a big help because told me that performing the big three lifts with a bodybuilding mentality (mid-high reps and forget about the pound numbers) was the quickest way to build a better physique in the shortest amount of time.

01-02- climbed up over two years to about 220 and was up to 365 for 12reps on deadlift and 275 for 8 reps on bench (bodybuilding form, slow and controlled with a good explosion off the bottom.

03- was getting a little blubber at 225 so dieted that year back down to 215, stayed focused on the powerlifts though and finally hit 405 for 10 reps on deadlift and 275 for 10 on bench.

04- started at a new gym to lift with high school buddies, it was a great gym but a lousy enviorement, and 45 minute drive I could only make twice a week.
No real strength or bodyweight increases, but had so many more isolation options that I tried pummeling myself with high volume everything and getting cut look. (so-so results).

05-06 - Moved to Mattoon and started at a decent old-school type gym just down the street. With a nice quiet low-key enviorement I was able to get my mind back in the powerlifts and climbed to 405 for 15 reps/455 for 8 reps on deadlifts and 315 for 6 reps on bench (each rep with controled decent, full one or two count at bottom, and explosion WITHOUT shoulder or hip hitching/bouncing.
Over two years there (05-07) got me to a solid 225 weight and my best condition to date.

Got family and frustrating factory/machine shop job after that and started slowly gaining waistline and lifting only on and off lighter lower volume workouts at home.
Strength and condition suffered allot.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Wow, that is some hard work man.  
I've gone up from 185 this year in September (football) to 200 now from lifting heavily. All the weight seems to be coming from my legs. 
I'm actually more lean than i was then as well.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> Tomorrow our set for lifting is 3x5 (my school does the bigger faster stronger program) And i'll try to record my last set of squats at 315. It'll be nice to get actual feedback from people who know what they're talking about other than my weight training teacher who says "If it doesn't hurt you're probably doing it right"


 
I know that program well.
Never done it myself, but our local high school got on it in 98 and many of the coaches, players, and players fathers were coming in the gym and trying to apply the program.

All and all it's a good structure, but when the coaches have only attended a brief seminar and have no real hardcore lifting experience themselves, then kids are bound to get hurt.

They were letting/encouraging these guys to put as much as 400, and in a couple cases as much as 600 pounds on there back for the box squats.

Form on all the lifts sucked because the coaches didn't know jack shit.
I tried to politely interject so that some of the fathers could put their foot down, but since nobody wanted to hear that their boys were NOT strong enough to be putting that kind of weight on their backs, I just gave up on butting in .

The running back who was box squatting with over 600 did get a partial scholorship to a division 1aa (SIU), but began having back problems his first year and never got any playing time then didn't make the team his sophmore year.


----------



## Uncreative123

TRENCHLORD said:


> I'll be doing some better pictures in the very near future, but these will have to suffice for the moment.
> I just shot these a minute ago with the camera's timer, so it was kind of a pain having to hit the button and get to my spot and attempt to flex lol.
> Then I was just getting used to the timer cadence when the batteries ran out (uuuuhhhhgggg).
> 
> I was exactly 246 on May 1st, and am 239 yesterday morning (I always do my weight check first thing in the morning but after taking a leak), just to get an accurate consistent measurement.
> 
> 246 was my highest ever (morning dry naked) weight. I'm 5'8" and 37.5yrs old.
> I gluttonized very hard to get to 246, tons of good food, beer, and a couple daily protien shakes.
> 
> The things I've changed in the last 12 days to lose an initial 7 pounds are;
> Cut down from a six-pack/night to 3/night (boston lager ftw), Cut out junk snacks and deserts, almost eliminated all carbs except whole grains and fibers (which I'm still getting a modest amount of).
> And fortunately I'm not a sugar drink person (except for the beer), so that's not an issue.
> 
> My short-term goal is to be about 232 and noticably harder looking (and much tanner lol) by the end of the month, at which time I'll be better prepared and rehearsed a bit for more pics.
> Flexing properly is a helluva lot harder than most people think. Notice how I forgot to rotate my wrist to make the peaks stand up a little better.
> I haven't really flexxed since about 2005 when I was training at a nice gym with mirrors all around lol.




Jesus Christ dude. If you dropped down to like 200lbs, you could be a monster. Losing strength always sucks, but you've definitely got a solid base underneath and you would probably look even crazier and bigger too, in a good way. I have a few friends who lift and drink everyday and it's kind of like pulling teeth to get them to give it up, but if you did give up drinking, I think you would notice a substantial difference. Maybe even just switching to some kind of light beer that only has like 4g/carbs. I think Heinekin (sp?) light only has 4g/carbs. The hardest thing for me to switch to has been carb-free energy drinks. I hated that shit so much, but that Monster 'absolute zero' is pretty tasty. I'm hooked on caffeine and will not give it up at this point in my life, so that's my solution. 

I'm just getting back into my routine now after being out from the gym for nearly two weeks and I haven't lost any strength. I have started to add weight back on because I ate like shit during those two weeks and was more stressed than I've ever been in my life, but there wasn't much I could do about it. My lifts are actually going up now too. I think part of it had to do with the time off. I haven't taken more than two days in a row off in over two years, so this was quite a shock to the system. I was moving stuff/lifting stuff everyday, up and down stairs so I think that kept me from turning into an instant tub of goo, but I was getting concerned. My appetite is through the roof. It's not a dietary rebound or anything because I'm still doing IF, but I just eat and eat and basically have to stop myself because I can't get full. I'm eating more now at 205 than I was when I was at 250.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

Uncreative123 said:


> Jesus Christ dude. If you dropped down to like 200lbs, you could be a monster. Losing strength always sucks, but you've definitely got a solid base underneath and you would probably look even crazier and bigger too, in a good way. I have a few friends who lift and drink everyday and it's kind of like pulling teeth to get them to give it up, but if you did give up drinking, I think you would notice a substantial difference. Maybe even just switching to some kind of light beer that only has like 4g/carbs. I think Heinekin (sp?) light only has 4g/carbs. The hardest thing for me to switch to has been carb-free energy drinks. I hated that shit so much, but that Monster 'absolute zero' is pretty tasty. I'm hooked on caffeine and will not give it up at this point in my life, so that's my solution.
> 
> I'm just getting back into my routine now after being out from the gym for nearly two weeks and I haven't lost any strength. I have started to add weight back on because I ate like shit during those two weeks and was more stressed than I've ever been in my life, but there wasn't much I could do about it. My lifts are actually going up now too. I think part of it had to do with the time off. I haven't taken more than two days in a row off in over two years, so this was quite a shock to the system. I was moving stuff/lifting stuff everyday, up and down stairs so I think that kept me from turning into an instant tub of goo, but I was getting concerned. My appetite is through the roof. It's not a dietary rebound or anything because I'm still doing IF, but I just eat and eat and basically have to stop myself because I can't get full. I'm eating more now at 205 than I was when I was at 250.


 
Thanks for the imput. You are 110% right about the beer. Not only is it a caloric bag of bricks, but I've read it has negative effects over time on the liver's hormone production, and the liver in general. I'm going to get down to one or two/day next month. I have stayed at 3 for two weeks now without screwing up, so it's a start. Being heavy for one's frame sucks on the feet and ankles as well. Economic burden of alcohol sucks also.

Yeah that whole Carvin thing really threw fuel to the fire of your already hectic situation.
I can't imagine how you've stayed with the IF during all of it.
I'd have broken down and hit the beer and south-western sauced chicken pasta.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Luckily for me i'm not old enough for beer, so i don't have to worry about extra calories.  
I got my Ipod, gonna try to bring it in the weightroom with me, so i'll probably upload a video of me doing squats tonight. Maybe cleans too.  I'm gonna record my friend Eagle though and show you guys. He's tiny, and squats sooooo much for his size.


----------



## Alex6534

I'll be starting to lift heavy in a month or so. Since February I've cut down from about 240 to just above 200lbs. I'm 6ft 2 so carry the weight fairly well, still got a gut though  Hoping to cut down until I'm at 8% body fat... It'l take a while but should be worth it


----------



## TRENCHLORD

Alex6534 said:


> I'll be starting to lift heavy in a month or so. Since February I've cut down from about 240 to just above 200lbs. I'm 6ft 2 so carry the weight fairly well, still got a gut though  Hoping to cut down until I'm at 8% body fat... It'l take a while but should be worth it


 
The lifting will help alot in raising your metabolism, and the extra lean mass will up your maintanence calorie level a bit as well. Might up your appetite though, so be careful.

Sounds like the diet is working well though .


----------



## Aevolve

Just a random little advice question for you guys- went to the gym yesterday with a friend and he says I seem to be rotating my upper-body a bit during bench (both flat and incline DB), which is probably how I hurt my shoulder in the first place. I seem to be sort-of twerking my shoulders as I lift so that one shoulder is placed differently than the other? It's difficult to explain through text. He says it's no more than in inch difference, but that's obviously enough.

Do you guys have any advice on how to even-out my form and get my arms more balanced? He already suggested looking up and making sure my hands were even with each-other during the lift.


----------



## Tiger

You need to be squeezing your shoulder blades together.


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## Aevolve

Tiger said:


> You need to be squeezing your shoulder blades together.



Thank you kindly.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Alright i recorded some video's today, two of my friend Eagle, one of him cleaning 245 and squatting 315 for three reps. He only weighs 140, and he had already done his sets of squats, or else he could do more.  
I also recorded a video of me doing 315x5 on squat, which you can't see the full motion due to the angle of the video, my friend Myer's is really tall.  The third rep i didn't hit parallel on, i know that for a fact.  Uploading right now...


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## AngstRiddenDreams

There's Eagle cleaning 245, he did it for his 5 rep, but i didn't have time to watch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BG4CsxWXgbg&feature=youtu.be 
Me squatting. Don't know why it won't embedd, didn't go low enough on 3rd rep.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1n5AI-n9Ww&feature=youtu.be

Eagle squatting 315x3


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## Uncreative123

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> There's Eagle cleaning 245, he did it for his 5 rep, but i didn't have time to watch.
> 
> 
> Me squatting. Don't know why it won't embedd, didn't go low enough on 3rd rep.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eagle squatting 315x3




You need to lower the weight and work on your form. I think we all thought you weren't going low enough, but that's not issue now. Far more concerning is how you come up, rounding your back and rolling the weight towards your neck. That's actually pretty terrifying. I swear I thought the second to last one was going to roll right over your head. I'm actually surprised you can squat that much while putting that kind of strain almost directly on your neck. If you get your form down a lot better, I think you could lift considerably more.

Couldn't really tell if your knees are going too far forward either. If they are, you can get away with it now, but it will DESTROY your knees in only a few short years.

Edit: Your friends form is better, but a little too much bounce in it at the bottom. Regardless, it's impressive at 140 ( I think you said 140?)


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## AngstRiddenDreams

Yeah, i think i could probably have gone about 4 or 5 inches lower on those. As old as excuses are, i was thoroughly fatigued from cleans and my previous sets of squats.  
I do lean a bit forward on my knee's, but i attribute the weight rolling forward to squatting with a pad on the bar. I need to using that.

Irrelevant, but do i appear to you to be strong enough to squat 375 with better form? 

And also, i'll record me doing bench on Friday, i have the best form with it and am extremely comfortable with it. Squats i have only started since around November.

Should i be putting more weight on my ass muscles per se?

Edit: Yeah he is only 140, i've been trying to get him to help me with form.


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## Winspear

I'd say you could manage that weight on squat in a short while - purely based on the fact that my friend had the same problem with his back rounding, and actually became a lot stronger as soon as he realised how to lock his body better. 
He was however already going low enough so didn't need to put the weight down.


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## AngstRiddenDreams

Alright cool, i will definitely work on that and post updates on here. Goal is 400 by August.

Edit: I'm pretty sure that removing the pad would help with the weight being so high on my neck and rolling forward, do you guys agree too?


----------



## Uncreative123

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> Alright cool, i will definitely work on that and post updates on here. Goal is 400 by August.
> 
> Edit: I'm pretty sure that removing the pad would help with the weight being so high on my neck and rolling forward, do you guys agree too?




Oh boy, I completely missed that. Ditch the Maxi-pad (or aptly named 'pussy pad') immediately. If Ronnie Coleman can squat 900 lbs without one, there's no reason anybody should be using one. It will help you tighten your shoulders up too. 

The other thing I was going to add was it might be a good idea to get some other camera angles of your squat. First of all, don't have somebody hold it, especially if they're that close. Just set it down on something so you can get your whole body in the shot without the whole 'roller-coaster' effect. I couldn't tell from the vid, but you may be inner-quad dominant. Would have to see a shot from behind to confirm. Basically your knees start to turn in to each other if that's the case. Outer-quad dominant would be the opposite. There are some really simple, no weight, tests you can perform to address and confirm this. I don't know them well enough to be able to explain them online. 

Also, if you are having trouble 'feeling it' in your glutes there are some other exercises you'll want to make sure to do. Most people don't recruit their glutes properly when squatting. Box squats will definitely help with this. Leg Press can too. Another exercise that is really good for 'feeling' your glutes and getting use to what it feels like to use them/have them fire is that machine you always see the girls on with their legs flared out like they're about to give birth or receive a pounding. Usually called a hip-abductor/adductor. Yes, it will be embarrassing at first, but you'll appreciate it in the end. Most people (women) think it's for toning your inner legs or strengthening your vag, but it's really good for glute activation. Just make sure the seat is at an INCLINE- not straight up. You'll feel it in your ass, no matter what. The weight is not important. Good quality reps are important. I would try to keep it in the 15 rep range and do it at the end of your leg workout. Seriously don't go too crazy the first time, because you may have issues being able to sit comfortably the next day or two. Good idea to do both the abductor and adductor. 


Next time: Tight hip-flexors and the best way to stretch them.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

I'm a painfully slow typer, and Uncreative has most of the points already.

Lose the pad.

Squeeze the shoulderblades back together some.

Expand your chest and suck your gut in a bit.

Roll the bar back a little lower down, just before it drops off your squeezed traps.

The amount of forward lean differs for person to person, but it should be slight, and it shouldn't deviate at any point, 
which is why I'd recommend not going up quite all the way to straight legs, because that will force you to straighten all the way and deviate your slight lean.
You can get that lockout feel on so many other safer movements, and coming/going in and out of the lockout is where most people's balance gets/starts off track.

When you decend, keep your chest locked and expanded up, and keep your eyes and head locked straight ahead.

Hold that slight lower back arch (opposite of rounded) and sit back.

Some people do better with flat sole shoes, and some better with elevated heel workboots.
I use wrestling shoes because they're flat and I love the tight ankle support.

Don't roll in on your arches, this will cause your knees to dive in.
Don't roll onto your toes, this will kill the knees with that much weight. 
Push through your heels and outer foot only.


----------



## Harry

Ahh, hadn't checked this thread in a bit.
Trench, man, looking big! Am I the only one that noticed the calves? Damn man, pretty beefy calves indeed.
If you stuck to a good caloric cyclical diet, no reason why you couldn't completely maintain strength/muscle mass (even INCREASE) while dropping fat.


----------



## Tiger

I also dont support the use of the weight belt. I feel not having one keeps you honest. I have no interest in pretend lifts with assistance equipment, so maybe Im biased.

But yea, break 90 before claiming heavy weights like that.


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## AngstRiddenDreams

Alright. Lose the pad, stop squatting in running shoes, no back arch, lower on back, and stop bringing my knee's together. Got it.


----------



## UnderTheSign

Tiger said:


> I also dont support the use of the weight belt. I feel not having one keeps you honest. I have no interest in pretend lifts with assistance equipment, so maybe Im biased.
> 
> But yea, break 90 before claiming heavy weights like that.


It's all 'bout raw lifting...


----------



## Tiger

Not that its some macho thing, I just dont understand the point of lifting weight your body cant manage on its own.


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## TRENCHLORD

Some guys do just wear them for good measure.
Others actually get them hypertight and push out with their abs against the belt to increase abdominal cavity pressure, 
which is a bad habit that forces them to depend on the belt all the time.

I don't use a belt on deadlifts and squats (although I rarely max, and when I do I don't really go for broke in fear of injury).
For barbell curls and overhead press, belts can make it a little easier to concentrate on the target and less on stabalizing yourself.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> There's Eagle cleaning 245, he did it for his 5 rep, but i didn't have time to watch.http://


 
At his bodyweight, he really might have some great potential in olympic lifts.
Has he ever maxxed on full clean and jerk?
How long has he been practicing cleans, and how/who did he learn from so far?

sorry for the interview


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

TRENCHLORD said:


> At his bodyweight, he really might have some great potential in olympic lifts.
> Has he ever maxxed on full clean and jerk?
> How long has he been practicing cleans, and how/who did he learn from so far?
> 
> sorry for the interview



His max clean is about 280, 285. And he learned just by watching other kids at the highschool. There are two seniors in my high school who are top 10 in the nation with powerclean.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

That one senior you posted awhile back C&Jing over 400 was incredible for any age really.


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## AngstRiddenDreams

TRENCHLORD said:


> That one senior you posted awhile back C&Jing over 400 was incredible for any age really.


Oh yeah, that guy is a beast. He holds our school squat record at 680. Fucking ridiculous.
It's so weird, my school has some extremely strong people and we have a little under 1,000 kids. I'd expect a much bigger school to be like that.


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> Oh yeah, that guy is a beast. He holds our school squat record at 680. Fucking ridiculous.
> It's so weird, my school has some extremely strong people and we have a little under 1,000 kids. I'd expect a much bigger school to be like that.



Is your school like some kind of special athletically-focused school or something? The concept of a school having a weight room with power racks and a huge number of people lifting crazy weight is completely alien to me  I'm not even sure how many people at my school have ever done C+J or heavy barbell squats below parallel, or even know how to do them


----------



## USMarine75

This thread is F'ing killing me. I have 5 weeks left before I'm supposed to lift again. I did a light maintenance workout last night for shoulders and I'm curious to see how much mass/strength loss I can prevent, or if perhaps a change of pace even helps me break through some plateaus... hell it will probably do some good for my old parts. I tried doing the Weider pre-exhaustion technique that way even though I was only shoulder pressing 30s I could try and still get something out of it.

The worst part is I'm still eating like I'm lifting... aaaargh. And I like eating. I'm trying the leangains concept eating at 1,4 and 8 (workout at 6)... I know the dude mentions black coffee is OK, but I've been getting through the IF period with a 1/2 bottle of G2 low cal (40 cal, 8g carb) and a med DnD coffee with milk... not sure if that is too much intake for the IF period.


----------



## Winspear

Captain Shoggoth said:


> Is your school like some kind of special athletically-focused school or something? The concept of a school having a weight room with power racks and a huge number of people lifting crazy weight is completely alien to me  I'm not even sure how many people at my school have ever done C+J or heavy barbell squats below parallel, or even know how to do them



This. Weird as fuck  School weight rooms are meant to be full of machines and skinny kids doing biceps and abs, right? 


I had to take a week off last week because I had a huge workload on top of being ill. Got back yesterday and all my lifts are back to where I was 6 months ago. Sucks ass! Hopefully shouldn't take too long to repair but I'm currently cutting and feel like that coupled with a week off has made me small as fuck. Damn! No more than 5lbs to go though..


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

EtherealEntity said:


> This. Weird as fuck  School weight rooms are meant to be full of machines and skinny kids doing biceps and abs, right?



That's about the size of it, yeah  Ours has a rack of those rubbery-ass dumbbells and some guys are pretty strong relatively speaking (high reps dumbbell press with 30kgs per arm) but those are the only free weights 




> I had to take a week off last week because I had a huge workload on top of being ill. Got back yesterday and all my lifts are back to where I was 6 months ago. Sucks ass! Hopefully shouldn't take too long to repair but I'm currently cutting and feel like that coupled with a week off has made me small as fuck. Damn! No more than 5lbs to go though..



A setback is only a disaster if you quit. Keep at it man!


----------



## TRENCHLORD

USMarine75 said:


> This thread is F'ing killing me. I have 5 weeks left before I'm supposed to lift again. I did a light maintenance workout last night for shoulders and I'm curious to see how much mass/strength loss I can prevent, or if perhaps a change of pace even helps me break through some plateaus... hell it will probably do some good for my old parts. I tried doing the Weider pre-exhaustion technique that way even though I was only shoulder pressing 30s I could try and still get something out of it.
> 
> The worst part is I'm still eating like I'm lifting... aaaargh. And I like eating. I'm trying the leangains concept eating at 1,4 and 8 (workout at 6)... I know the dude mentions black coffee is OK, but I've been getting through the IF period with a 1/2 bottle of G2 low cal (40 cal, 8g carb) and a med DnD coffee with milk... not sure if that is too much intake for the IF period.


 
I feel your pain (fortunately not literaly ).
Once I either slightly tore or maybe just badly strained an ab area muscle that connected to my left rib-cage.

IIRC it took about two weeks to loosen back up and not have that stretched/ripped feeling.
It was about the same feeling you get on a bad high ankle sprain the next day after.
I couldn't sit, stand, or lay down comfortably for several days.
Finally I located a couple flexeril relaxers and wow, the relief was almost instant and felt like a thousand pounds had been lifted off me.

The thing is, I never felt anything strain or tear when I was lifting. So I'm not even sure what happened.
This was in 03 and hasn't ever happened again .


----------



## Tiger

Got my 375lb deadlift easy today after 6 mile run and hill work. My weight lost is being lame though,I went down to 144 last week then magically went up to 146. Was at 145 this morning, frustrated but whatever. 

Want 139.


----------



## USMarine75

I completely tore the meat off the bone...


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

My school is not hugely athelitically focused at all. 
About 4 years ago we had terrible sports teams, especially football. And 3 years ago we got a new football coach, who is also the weight training teacher, and he tries to convince all the guys in the school to lift weights. So there are tons of football players in the school that lift, and that's about it.


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

Speaking logically, does this routine make sense? Trying to finalise my "split" divided between big lift days and hypertrophy/assistance exercise days, and thought that taking the emphasis off (NOT removing) lifts such as overhead presses in favour of concentrating on the Big 3 would be simpler and more beneficial.

e.g.

Mon-Deadlift day (warmup with pullups, start with low weight to warmup, then do high reps training, then very heavy low reps with light at the end)

Tue-Chest/Arms hypertrophy/assistance

Wed-Squat day (warmup with overhead squats, then work into squats (and perhaps front squats?) in the same way as deadlifts)

Thur-Back hypertrophy/assistance

Fri-Bench day (same as deadlifts but start with chinups instead of pullups)

Sat-Abs hypertrophy/assistance

Sun-Rest

Should result in shorter, more focused workouts methinks. Please someone tell me if I'm a fool for thinking so 



AngstRiddenDreams said:


> My school is not hugely athelitically focused at all.
> About 4 years ago we had terrible sports teams, especially football. And 3 years ago we got a new football coach, who is also the weight training teacher, and he tries to convince all the guys in the school to lift weights. So there are tons of football players in the school that lift, and that's about it.



Ah, that's cool.  We don't have anything particularly like that, except in rugby reason all of us in the squad are told to hit the gym, we don't have any coaches/teachers specifically for weightlifting in classes, but our school hires out a couple of guys (alternating days) to supervise the gym and help people out, happens one is a champion powerlifter+strongman who I report to weekly for coaching, but I train from home because there are no barbells or cages at school


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

As soon as our football season ends, our coach says that training season begins. If you want to start, you better either be an amazing football player, or lifting 2x a day.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

@Tiger; That's almost 3x your bodyweight man!!! 

@Marine; Quit talking like that, it's making me want to pig out on porkchops lol.

@Captain; You might do better going something like
Monday-Deadlifts, other pulls (pullups, rows, ect..)
Tuesday- rest
Wed- Bench, other pushs (military, dips)
Thurs-rest
Fri- Squats and other leg stuff
Sat- abs and arms
Sun-rest

of course if you're young and your split is working, then maybe run an alternating split cycle every few weeks or switch at the end of every month


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

TRENCHLORD said:


> @Tiger; That's almost 3x your bodyweight man!!!
> 
> @Marine; Quit talking like that, it's making me want to pig out on porkchops lol.
> 
> @Captain; You might do better going something like
> Monday-Deadlifts, other pulls (pullups, rows, ect..)
> Tuesday- rest
> Wed- Bench, other pushs (military, dips)
> Thurs-rest
> Fri- Squats and other leg stuff
> Sat- abs and arms
> Sun-rest
> 
> of course if you're young and your split is working, then maybe run an alternating split cycle every few weeks or switch at the end of every month



Cheers Trench. I'm still on my current split for the next few weeks and was wondering what to switch over to. This seems a lot more intuitive and gives me more rest days, so awesome


----------



## Uncreative123

USMarine75 said:


> This thread is F'ing killing me. I have 5 weeks left before I'm supposed to lift again. I did a light maintenance workout last night for shoulders and I'm curious to see how much mass/strength loss I can prevent, or if perhaps a change of pace even helps me break through some plateaus... hell it will probably do some good for my old parts. I tried doing the Weider pre-exhaustion technique that way even though I was only shoulder pressing 30s I could try and still get something out of it.
> 
> The worst part is I'm still eating like I'm lifting... aaaargh. And I like eating. I'm trying the leangains concept eating at 1,4 and 8 (workout at 6)... I know the dude mentions black coffee is OK, but I've been getting through the IF period with a 1/2 bottle of G2 low cal (40 cal, 8g carb) and a med DnD coffee with milk... not sure if that is too much intake for the IF period.




Ditch the G2 and switch to Powerade zero. It's not as good, but it's definitely not bad and it's less carbs and cal. No milk in the coffee. Milk has too much carbs and protein which could spike your insulin levels, especially if you're having other stuff during the fast. Better to err on the conservative side. I would ditch all of that and do straight BCAA's so you can have peace of mind. It'll be cheaper in the end as well. If you're caffeine-addicted like me, try ON's BCAA powder that has caffeine in it. It's pretty tasty and will give you the boost your looking for.


----------



## highlordmugfug

Looking at the Marine fitness test (not joining any military organization, just working on getting in shape).

Didn't get to try the run, but after a bunch of other exercising today: 55 crunches in 2 minutes, and 5 pullups in one session (without releasing the bar). Not bad for now, but I can make it better.



I just copied the section above this from my facebook status about it. I've been doing push-ups with my legs up on the top of the back of the couch, curls, running/jogging/walking 1-7 miles every day or so, pullups, leg presses, lat curls, bench press (with dumbbells since there's no bar at the gym in the apartment complex), crunches (with and without extra weight on my chest) for the last few weeks.



I'm really just trying to put on some more muscle and get a bigger chest (it's working pretty well so far, I can already see a difference in my arms).


----------



## Tiger

TRENCHLORD said:


> @Tiger; That's almost 3x your bodyweight man!!!



Yea, Ill get photo/video of the big event in the next few months or so I hope. 

Amazon.com: Periodization Training for Sports - 2nd Edition (9780736055598): Tudor Bompa, Michael Carrera: Books

^ That book really helped me work out the mixing links for what I wanted my body to be able to do and helped me start training to get smaller but stronger and I recommend it to anyone who wants a well written text for any sport.

It may not look as cool as huge ripped muscles but its pretty satisfying to run ultra's and still outlift all the jacked dudes in my division.


----------



## highlordmugfug

highlordmugfug said:


> Looking at the Marine fitness test (not joining any military organization, just working on getting in shape).
> 
> Didn't get to try the run, but after a bunch of other exercising today: 55 crunches in 2 minutes, and 5 pullups in one session (without releasing the bar). Not bad for now, but I can make it better.
> 
> 
> 
> I just copied the section above this from my facebook status about it. I've been doing push-ups with my legs up on the top of the back of the couch, curls, running/jogging/walking 1-7 miles every day or so, pullups, leg presses, lat curls, bench press (with dumbbells since there's no bar at the gym in the apartment complex), crunches (with and without extra weight on my chest) for the last few weeks.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really just trying to put on some more muscle and get a bigger chest (it's working pretty well so far, I can already see a difference in my arms).


I just realized what I left out of my post 
I'm also planning on adding dumbbell shoulder presses to what I've been doing. Are there any suggestions as to other exercises I should/could be doing? I can't do anything that requires a bench press bar right now.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

highlordmugfug said:


> I just realized what I left out of my post
> I'm also planning on adding dumbbell shoulder presses to what I've been doing. Are there any suggestions as to other exercises I should/could be doing? I can't do anything that requires a bench press bar right now.


 
Looks like you're already doing the right stuff.
The one thing I might suggest adding is some varying forms/angles of leg-raises. Those really seem to tie-in the upper and lower body which makes it safer/easier to safely do all those potentially back hurting excersises (even curls can be a back hurter without that lower/inner ab strength).

Laying flat on the floor/bench and bringing locked straight legs up as high as possible, all the way to the point that the hips come off the floor, then only release until the point where your tailbone touches barely.
So basically the legs go back and forth between the 10:00 and 12:00 angles.
After you get the hang of that you can progress to letting the feet go all the way back down to the floor for each rep.
Then you can incorperate angles (the best of which is to lay backwards on a decline bench with the head up by that thing normaly used to hook the feet through. This way, when your legs are all the way up top there will be more gravity resistance.
Hanging leg and knee raises from a pullup bar are another great tie-in.
Just make sure to attempt that complete hip roll-up contraction.

monkey-bar pullups (palms facing each other and hands just barely outside shoulder-width) are great and also allow for doing the pullup and knee-raise simotaneously, and bringing the knees straight up to chest level and leaning the whole body back a bit actually brings the lower lats, lower abs, and obliques, and everything into it really.


----------



## Tiger

Gotta squat and deadlift, be not afraid.


----------



## USMarine75

Uncreative123 said:


> Ditch the G2 and switch to Powerade zero. It's not as good, but it's definitely not bad and it's less carbs and cal. No milk in the coffee. Milk has too much carbs and protein which could spike your insulin levels, especially if you're having other stuff during the fast. Better to err on the conservative side. I would ditch all of that and do straight BCAA's so you can have peace of mind. It'll be cheaper in the end as well. If you're caffeine-addicted like me, try ON's BCAA powder that has caffeine in it. It's pretty tasty and will give you the boost your looking for.


 
I'm drinking my last coffee with milk right now! (Of course we're talking about just during the IF period... I mean, I'm not crazy) And I'll ditch the shots of mocha that I have them throw in too lol. 

I forget the name of the BCAA that I have but it's terrible. It comes in a white can and I got the flavor-free one to mix with my preworkout drink and with a G2 afterwards (I do the 1pm, 4pm, workout, 8pm split). But it wont mix with cold fluids so the white powder just floats on top and you end up chugging it raw... blech!. Does ON BCAA taste half decent?

I'm also a complete dumbass... it's hard to tell a Marine not to do something. So technically I blame my doctor. I flatbenched anyways on Wed and I kept it light... I did 135x20, 185x10, 205x10, 225x9. Used the smith in case anything ruptured. Nothing yet! I figure as long as I stay away from back excercises that really activate and stretch the intercostal (rib) muscle that had ruptured on the 5th I'll be ok. Yesterday I had to skip my back workout, but I still did biceps/forearms... I have a preacher bench, so I figured that would take any stress off the obliques. 

Anyone have ideas for a light back workout that doesnt engage the intercostal muscles? FWIW I blew it out doing a bent over DB row. 

Oh well if you don't hear from me for awhile its because I'm back in the hospital...


----------



## TRENCHLORD

USMarine75 said:


> FWIW I blew it out doing a bent over DB row.


 
The one time I tweeked my back (I think I hit a nerve in my lower back) I was doing one-arm dumbell rows and that gym sucked for only having up to 70 pound bells, so instead of pulling it straight up near my waist I was trying to make it harder by taking it out to the side almost like a one-arm side lateral and WHAMMM.

Unlike my little ab pull of 03 where I never felt anything bad happen ATM,
This back nerve tweek (again, I'm just guessing here) was instant and flooring. I could barely make it to the car and drive myself home.
What I think really happened was that my opposite side abdominals just relaxed at the wrong time allowing my lower back to twist funny or something.

Anyways, since that moment in 01, I've never done one-arm rows since, not even with good bracing.
I just stick to the barbell so as to not take a chance of twisting wrongly again.
If doing dumbells I even go two-armed and pull slightly up and out at the same time.

As for a back excersise that doesn't involve the intercoastals ,
maybe something upper-back like laying stomach down on tall flat or even incline bench (insert jokes and more here) and doing light dumbell two-armed lateral raises.


----------



## highlordmugfug

Tiger said:


> Gotta squat and deadlift, be not afraid.


I would if I had a bar right now, but I don't have access to one.


----------



## Infamous Impact

I finished my Smolov cycle last week and raised my squat from 320 to 380. Today I deadlifted for the first time in over 2 months and it felt amazing! My last pull before starting Smolov was 360x5. Today I went up by 20 pound increments and pulled 4 plates before deciding my spine had taken enough. I'm hoping to hit 405x5 soon, I love the back lifts!


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Me benching 235x5




He only helps me lift on the very last rep when i rack it.


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

USMarine75 said:


> I forget the name of the BCAA that I have but it's terrible. It comes in a white can and I got the flavor-free one to mix with my preworkout drink and with a G2 afterwards (I do the 1pm, 4pm, workout, 8pm split). But it wont mix with cold fluids so the white powder just floats on top and you end up chugging it raw... blech!. Does ON BCAA taste half decent?



I've got a 500g bag of unflavoured BCAA too, they all suck dude  I mentioned it a couple of days ago, Uncreative123 recommended the Intek and ON (Amino Energy, the ON one is) BCAAs, I can't wait to finish this bag and get some of the ON stuff 





AngstRiddenDreams said:


> Me benching 235x5
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He only helps me lift on the very last rep when i rack it.




strong armpit hair/10


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

wut??

Yeah, they call me Sasquatch.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> Me benching 235x5


 
Actually, your positioning and balance are great.
If you were to do the exact same thing, except pause for a second at the bottom and then explode up without hitching the shoulders (which you already don't hitch, so that's good), and instead of going up to straight arm lockout, stop just an inch or two before lockout and squeeze for a half second before re-lowereing.

This will mean that you might only get 3 or 4 reps instead of 5, but the muscle's time under load will be longer and more time is spent with the muscles in a position of mechanical disadvantage, where the 235 feels the heaviest to the body.
Bottom line is that you will feel it more and that will develop and advance you quicker.
And after doing reps this way for a few weeks (on many excersises actually) it will feel even easier to pump them out in the rep test style of constant bar motion if needed.


----------



## the hittmann

I will join in on the fun. I'm 18, 180lbs @10% bf.

Bench 315
Squat 425
Deadlift 455

Been lifting for 4 yrs, happy to give advice/ answer questions.


----------



## Murmel

My dumbbell bench has stalled for a few weeks now. Would you guys recommend switching to barbell for a while? The reason I stopped doing barbell was because it hurt my left shoulder, but now it doesn't hurt anymore so I guess I could give it a shot.


----------



## Tiger

Captain Shoggoth said:


> I've got a 500g bag of unflavoured BCAA too, they all suck dude  I mentioned it a couple of days ago, Uncreative123 recommended the Intek and ON (Amino Energy, the ON one is) BCAAs, I can't wait to finish this bag and get some of the ON stuff
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> strong armpit hair/10



The ON stuff is nice and sweet but I only had the kind with caffeine in it. Nowadays I like the Scivation stuff (not sure why all the hate it tastes and mixes fine) or even BSN's AminoX cause you can get it very cheap, and they are pretty much the masters of flavor in my opinion.


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

Tiger said:


> The ON stuff is nice and sweet but I only had the kind with caffeine in it. Nowadays I like the Scivation stuff (not sure why all the hate it tastes and mixes fine) or even BSN's AminoX cause you can get it very cheap, and they are pretty much the masters of flavor in my opinion.



Ah, cheers for that, Xtend works out to be a hell of a lot cheaper than the ON stuff and slightly cheaper than BSN  and if it's good enough for Layne Norton, it's good enough for me


----------



## TRENCHLORD

Captain Shoggoth said:


> Ah, cheers for that, Xtend work


 

My girlfriend says it doesn't work at all 
https://www.extenze.com/


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

TRENCHLORD said:


> My girlfriend says it doesn't work at all
> https://www.extenze.com/



hahahaha


----------



## the hittmann

Murmel said:


> My dumbbell bench has stalled for a few weeks now. Would you guys recommend switching to barbell for a while? The reason I stopped doing barbell was because it hurt my left shoulder, but now it doesn't hurt anymore so I guess I could give it a shot.



yes, its good to go back and forth between the two. Db helps with your stabilizer muscles. I would start light since it used two hurt your shoulder and progress accordingly.


----------



## MFB

Pretty soon I'll be moving back to Boston and starting school in the fall, and apparently my dorms not only have a gym but it's 24 hours as well which is fantastic for me since I like to go when it's empty (night-time). I'm looking at doing a bunch of upper body exercises and figure you guys would have some input. Looking at doing the following :

Squats
Deadlifts
Biceps
Triceps
Flys
Delts
Lats
Traps

Ideally that SHOULD be the right amount of exercises to work out the upper body right? Only thing I can think of that might not get worked is the Obliques but I haven't seen any exercises that use weights for those, they get worked in other movements no?


----------



## Infamous Impact

MFB said:


> Ideally that SHOULD be the right amount of exercises to work out the upper body right? Only thing I can think of that might not get worked is the Obliques but I haven't seen any exercises that use weights for those, they get worked in other movements no?


Working your obliques directly increases your waist size. It's best to train them through squats and deadlifts.


----------



## MFB

OK, so I was somewhat on the right track with them being worked through other exercises. Good to see I remember some stuff.


----------



## the hittmann

MFB said:


> Pretty soon I'll be moving back to Boston and starting school in the fall, and apparently my dorms not only have a gym but it's 24 hours as well which is fantastic for me since I like to go when it's empty (night-time). I'm looking at doing a bunch of upper body exercises and figure you guys would have some input. Looking at doing the following :
> 
> Squats
> Deadlifts
> Biceps
> Triceps
> Flys
> Delts
> Lats
> Traps
> 
> Ideally that SHOULD be the right amount of exercises to work out the upper body right? Only thing I can think of that might not get worked is the Obliques but I haven't seen any exercises that use weights for those, they get worked in other movements no?



Work the entire body not just upper, it will benefit you both strength wise and a more balanced physique. Start with basic compound movements for overall mass and strength. Squats, deadlifts, bench press, and pullups are essential in any workout program. You can do them using a variety of techniques. Then you can add a different isolation excersises for a well rounded training program.


----------



## Tiger

10x3 day for smolov cycle, my favorite.


----------



## MFB

the hittmann said:


> Work the entire body not just upper, it will benefit you both strength wise and a more balanced physique. Start with basic compound movements for overall mass and strength. Squats, deadlifts, bench press, and pullups are essential in any workout program. You can do them using a variety of techniques. Then you can add a different isolation excersises for a well rounded training program.



Yeah, I'll definitely be doing upper stuff but my legs have always been far better at being pushed so they haven't really gone downhill whereas the upper body was never a strong suit for me so I'm more focused on that right now. At my old gym I was pushing over 200lbs for Leg Presses and doing who knows how many reps since my legs were just used to carrying my weight all the time for hours on end during work. But there will still definitely be lower extremity exercises in there, I just want to make sure those exercises listed would work for an overall upper body workout.


----------



## Infamous Impact

MFB said:


> Yeah, I'll definitely be doing upper stuff but my legs have always been far better at being pushed so they haven't really gone downhill whereas the upper body was never a strong suit for me so I'm more focused on that right now. At my old gym I was pushing over 200lbs for Leg Presses and doing who knows how many reps since my legs were just used to carrying my weight all the time for hours on end during work. But there will still definitely be lower extremity exercises in there, I just want to make sure those exercises listed would work for an overall upper body workout.


A 200lbs Leg Press translates to a 95lb Squat... Do compounds with free weights before going to machines.


----------



## MFB

Will do.

I seem to go back and forth between machines and free weights, and at the most recent gym I was at before I moved it was machine dominated with a tiny free weight section that was dominated by the form-over-function guys who would go in, pick heavy weights, do 5 reps then just put em down and move on so I didn't even bother using them there; I worked with the machines that were closer to free weights than some of the others since there were different brands.

Free weights definitely give me a better idea of where I'm at with my actual abilities compared to machines


----------



## Uncreative123

USMarine75 said:


> I'm drinking my last coffee with milk right now! (Of course we're talking about just during the IF period... I mean, I'm not crazy) And I'll ditch the shots of mocha that I have them throw in too lol.
> 
> I forget the name of the BCAA that I have but it's terrible. It comes in a white can and I got the flavor-free one to mix with my preworkout drink and with a G2 afterwards (I do the 1pm, 4pm, workout, 8pm split). But it wont mix with cold fluids so the white powder just floats on top and you end up chugging it raw... blech!. Does ON BCAA taste half decent?




The ON stuff is pretty good tasting. I like the Blue Raspberry the best. It's definitely not the best BCAA supp, but I'd rather take that than drink energy drinks. I just ordered some of the BSN BCAA's- watermelon and sour apple, among a few other things. Should be here Monday or Tuesday.

Muscle tears are terrifying. Probably my biggest fear at the gym. That's another reason I don't push too hard on chest exercises. 




Infamous Impact said:


> A 200lbs Leg Press translates to a 95lb Squat... Do compounds with free weights before going to machines.



It definitely doesn't translate to a 95lb squat. I'd say it's more like a 30% conversion rate. I can rep 800 lbs 6-8 times on LP and I'm nowhere near a 400 lb squat.


----------



## Infamous Impact

Uncreative123 said:


> It definitely doesn't translate to a 95lb squat. I'd say it's more like a 30% conversion rate. I can rep 800 lbs 6-8 times on LP and I'm nowhere near a 400 lb squat.


I may have exaggerated, but the point is that free weight strength carries over to machines way better than vice versa.


----------



## oddcam

Just a few pointers

- Many machines will have you doing awkward, unbalanced, or downright damaging movements. Free weights have no equal.

- No matter your goals, Squats are the most beneficial lift to your overall growth. Squats work the largest muscle group; the result is that your body goes into "building mode" (producing more testosterone and other things). So don't cheap out on squats.

- Don't forget your core. Situps, pushups (performed correctly), and light-weight deadlifts will help ensure your body stays in proper form.


----------



## the hittmann

Uncreative123 said:


> The ON stuff is pretty good tasting. I like the Blue Raspberry the best. It's definitely not the best BCAA supp, but I'd rather take that than drink energy drinks. I just ordered some of the BSN BCAA's- watermelon and sour apple, among a few other things. Should be here Monday or Tuesday.
> 
> Muscle tears are terrifying. Probably my biggest fear at the gym. That's another reason I don't push too hard on chest exercises.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It definitely doesn't translate to a 95lb squat. I'd say it's more like a 30% conversion rate. I can rep 800 lbs 6-8 times on LP and I'm nowhere near a 400 lb squat.



Hate to say it but you probably aren't going down low enough on leg presses. If you are doing 800lbs for 6-8 good form(knees touching chest) then you should atleast be able to hit a good 365-400 on Squats.


----------



## UnderTheSign

I think the more you're capable of squatting, the higher your leg press gets in comparison. ie. me being a scrawny novice, I squat 90kg (200lbs) and leg press 120kg (265lbs) so the difference ain't huge.


----------



## USMarine75

I've got to find some back excercises that won't strain the obliques / intercostal muscles... any more suggestions? Need the help I havent excercised back in over a month and I lose muscle mass quickly!

I've found so far I can do the following pain free: bench, tricep pulldowns (strangely, bc I would have thought that this would hurt!), db preacher curl, and shoulder workouts (DBs with the Weider pre-exhaustion technique)


----------



## Uncreative123

the hittmann said:


> Hate to say it but you probably aren't going down low enough on leg presses. If you are doing 800lbs for 6-8 good form(knees touching chest) then you should atleast be able to hit a good 365-400 on Squats.


----------



## Uncreative123

UnderTheSign said:


> I think the more you're capable of squatting, the higher your leg press gets in comparison. ie. me being a scrawny novice, I squat 90kg (200lbs) and leg press 120kg (265lbs) so the difference ain't huge.





I think you can LP a lot more than 265. Most girls can do that- and I don't mean girls that lift, I mean cardio bunnies. 

And don't forget the sled weighs anywhere from 50-100 lbs depending on what brand of machine it is.


----------



## Winspear

Uncreative123 said:


> I think you can LP a lot more than 265. Most girls can do that- and I don't mean girls that lift, I mean cardio bunnies.



Yeah. Leg press has seemed to be one of those where people need to be told what to lift. A lot of people seem to naturally not put much effort into it. I had to tell 3 of the guys I train with, who have no problem pushing themselves hard on most exercises, to _double_ their weight.
If you're squatting 90 you should be pushing at least 170kg.


----------



## MFB

I think people might be worried that they'll overdo it with the leg press and then suddenly the next day they wake up and OH NOES! They can't walk because they overdid it on the LP and their legs are sore. It's kind of a mindfuck of a machine, because you're legs are strong by carrying your own weight but you don't think about it, you treat it like every other machine and start lower because you're not sure and increase from there. 

That's not always the case, and I may be talking out my ass (read as: 99.9% sure I am) but that's how it was for me. I got on it at first and put some weights on and thought "This'll be more than enough" and then started going at it and thought it was just adrenaline/endorphins doing the work but the MORE I did it, the more I realized no leg presses are just something you can add more weight to for the aforementioned reason and then proceeded to add more weight until I was actually challenging myself.


----------



## Wingchunwarrior

oddcam said:


> - No matter your goals, Squats are the most beneficial lift to your overall growth. Squats work the largest muscle group; the result is that your body goes into "building mode" (producing more testosterone and other things). So don't cheap out on squats.
> .


 

That's a myth.....bro, The hormonal spike from doing squats is actually miniscule and short-lived and won't effect your upper body, sleeping and many many other things will produce a hormonal response.However, squats do require many stabilizing muscles in your back so in a way they can help.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Gonna try deadlifting 500 today, i'll upload the video of the attempt. The set for this week is 5-3-1, so i'm gonna do, 385, 420, 500.


----------



## UnderTheSign

EtherealEntity said:


> Yeah. Leg press has seemed to be one of those where people need to be told what to lift. A lot of people seem to naturally not put much effort into it. I had to tell 3 of the guys I train with, who have no problem pushing themselves hard on most exercises, to _double_ their weight.
> If you're squatting 90 you should be pushing at least 170kg.


Hm, I'll check it out on leg day this week. Might have to look into form as well then, or would it be simply a matter of *thinking* it's a lot of weight and a mental barrier? 

Re platform, makes sense as when squatting you count the bar weight as well... No idea what the platform weighs, machine is 260kg according to the website but that's no help...


----------



## Winspear

UnderTheSign said:


> Hm, I'll check it out on leg day this week. Might have to look into form as well then, or would it be simply a matter of *thinking* it's a lot of weight and a mental barrier?
> 
> Re platform, makes sense as when squatting you count the bar weight as well... No idea what the platform weighs, machine is 260kg according to the website but that's no help...



I'm not sure about bothering to count the platform. My weight has always seemed to remain the pretty much the same between several horizontal machines, and even a full on vertical leg press with a huge platform. 

Maybe a mental barrier yes. I'm not big by any means but I squat 100kg for 6 reps and press 180kg for 8 reps afterwards for comparison - I started pressing at 120kg when I was tiny. Guess I just found 'the feeling' on that exercise from the start. 

I actually had an incident the other week where I went up to the leg press, loaded up 180kg (I don't bother warming up as I've already squatted). I couldn't budge it. Had my friend push the first rep, wouldn't move. Lowered to 170. Nothing. 150..Nothing. 

Got up and asked a staff member if it was broken. We lowered the weight to 50kg and it moved. I put it back to 180kg and sat, pushed up the first rep. It's always very hard to get the first rep up but it's fine after that. I just realised at that point that I'd been pushing nowhere near hard enough even though I felt like I was. I guess that's what happens to a lot of people and is why they go light. Either the machine was actually stuck for a while (doubtful), or I was pushing so little that even my friend couldn't help get it up!

I'd say if you're squatting 90 put it straight to 150 and see if you can push it out. Just make sure to keep form and not bring your ass up on that first rep. I'm guessing you'll get it up and find you can rep it just fine.


----------



## UnderTheSign

Good ones.

Keeping my ass down took me a while to get right but I've gotten used to that now.


----------



## the hittmann

Wingchunwarrior said:


> That's a myth.....bro, The hormonal spike from doing squats is actually miniscule and short-lived and won't effect your upper body, sleeping and many many other things will produce a hormonal response.However, squats do require many stabilizing muscles in your back so in a way they can help.


A hormonal spike maybe a myth, but working legs to build a bigger upper body isn't. Your body will only let you get so disproportionate before it stops growth. Thats why you have to work legs. Plus legs will add strength to your upper body power and its essential for a complete physique.


----------



## Uncreative123

the hittmann said:


> A hormonal spike maybe a myth, but working legs to build a bigger upper body isn't. *Your body will only let you get so disproportionate before it stops growth. Thats why you have to work legs. *Plus legs will add strength to your upper body power and its essential for a complete physique.





























They look a little unproportional. Maybe they're just not going low enough on the leg press? 



*#logic*


----------



## highlordmugfug

^Imagine how big they'd be if they'd all have worked out "properly".


----------



## highlordmugfug

Alternative comment:

If you think they're disproportionate, you should see their third legs.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

Those guys are amazing. Most of us truely pale/fail in comparison.


----------



## highlordmugfug

TRENCHLORD said:


> Those guys are amazing. Most of us truely pale/fail in comparison.


I'm both pale and fail.


----------



## UnderTheSign

Speaking bout handicaps, anyone seen this?


----------



## the hittmann

Uncreative123 said:


> They look a little unproportional. Maybe they're just not going low enough on the leg press?
> 
> 
> 
> *#logic*



Ever heard of steroids? Its what makes bodybuilding what it is and allows you to overcome your bodies natural limits, and increase growth in a fraction of the time it would take you to do it naturally or do at all. I give those guys huge props, but they couldn't get that big on their own without a little help from some substances. But i forgot I'm talking to a professional bodybuilder who has trained with some of the greats!!!!!


----------



## Infamous Impact

the hittmann said:


> Ever heard of steroids? Its what makes bodybuilding what it is and allows you to overcome your bodies natural limits, and increase growth in a fraction of the time it would take you to do it naturally or do at all. I give those guys huge props, but they couldn't get that big on their own without a little help from some substances. But i forgot I'm talking to a professional bodybuilder who has trained with some of the greats!!!!!


There are tons of athletes who have disproportionate bodies from training their sport.


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

Friggin love wheelchair bodybuilders, all of them inspire me.


----------



## Uncreative123

the hittmann said:


> Ever heard of steroids? Its what makes bodybuilding what it is and allows you to overcome your bodies natural limits, and increase growth in a fraction of the time it would take you to do it naturally or do at all. I give those guys huge props, but they couldn't get that big on their own without a little help from some substances. But i forgot I'm talking to a professional bodybuilder who has trained with some of the greats!!!!!




Yes I have. Have you? Because it's rather apparent that you don't know anything about them. Tell me which of these athletes are on A.S. and which are natural:

















































You let me know when you've got it figured out. Feel free to post your pictures when you get around to it.  



Infamous- you're right. Arm Wrestlers and female gymnasts come to mind.


----------



## the hittmann

Wow look at that leg development on all of them, so your point is invalid. They all compete naturally, but that doesn't mean a damn thing. You can juice all day and if you know what you are doing use right compounding.ds, you can pass a test. If you think natural competitors are all substance free, I really have nothing to say other than read up. You mean post pics of my physique?


----------



## the hittmann

Infamous Impact said:


> There are tons of athletes who have disproportionate bodies from training their sport.


I wasn't saying you couldn't be disproportionate, I was saying in bodybuilding there is a limit at which your body won't allow growth without a foundation(legs) unless you use aas.


----------



## Greatoliver

the hittmann said:


> If you think natural competitors are all substance free, I really have nothing to say other than read up. You mean post pics of my physique?



Is that not what natural means..? If someone says they are natural, I thought it meant that they didn't take steroids/growth hormones 



the hittmann said:


> I wasn't saying you couldn't be disproportionate, I was saying in bodybuilding there is a limit at which your body won't allow growth without a foundation(legs) unless you use aas.



Not sure about that. If you just trained your upper body, you wouldn't get any leg growth, as there isn't any stimulation there (you would from just lifting up weights to bench etc., but not a lot)


----------



## the hittmann

Greatoliver said:


> Is that not what natural means..? If someone says they are natural, I thought it meant that they didn't take steroids/growth hormones
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure about that. If you just trained your upper body, you wouldn't get any leg growth, as there isn't any stimulation there (you would from just lifting up weights to bench etc., but not a lot)



That is what its supposed to mean, but through the years it's become a joke because most these so called "natural" competitors are indeed using, not to the degree of ifbb pros. They compete at that level because they don't have to get as big and competition isn't as fierce. And I was saying not training legs will not let you reach your full potential and can even inhibit upper body growth. Plus who wants a barrel chest and 20in arms supported by chicken legs?


----------



## Uncreative123

the hittmann said:


> Wow look at that leg development on all of them, so your point is invalid. They all compete naturally, but that doesn't mean a damn thing. You can juice all day and if you know what you are doing use right compounding.ds, you can pass a test. If you think natural competitors are all substance free, I really have nothing to say other than read up. You mean post pics of my physique?


 

Wrong, one of them is on A.S. and you failed to spot it- proving my point. You brought up steroids and said that level of physique is IMPOSSIBLE without the use of AS. YOUR point is invalid and based on absolutely nothing but your own ignorance. 

You have absolutely no idea what 'juicing' entails. You have absolutely no idea what testing entails. People can be DQ'd who aren't even on A.S. although it's very rare. People constantly fail natty testing. Do you think this is news to me or anyone? 
They can test for every compound with ease. It has absolutely nothing to do with 'running the right compounds'. The organic-structure of anabolics is obvious when you know what you're looking for. "Designer steroid" means nothing. That's what supplement companies use to legally sell shit they shouldn't be. All it is, is adding an extra carbon-atom so it can't be legally defined as steroid, even though it doesn't change the chemical structure at all. Then it's legal until somebody finds out about it and makes that specific structure illegal. This happens ALL the time. And it's totally irrelevant when it comes to drug testing. "Tren Xtreme" or whatever the fuck stupid PH nutri-shop would sell will still register as AS. 
T3, Clen, Dimethylamylamine, etc. aren't steroids, but they're still banned substances and they can test for them as well. It's not some guy in a garage doing the testing, they bring in companies to do it. It's not their first rodeo. They are experienced and know exactly what to look for.





the hittmann said:


> I wasn't saying you couldn't be disproportionate, I was saying in bodybuilding there is a limit at which your body won't allow growth without a foundation(legs) unless you use aas.



No, that's EXACTLY what you said.

" *Your body will only let you get so disproportionate before it stops growth. Thats why you have to work legs. *Plus legs will add strength to your upper body"



Put down the shovel. Admit your mistake. 







Greatoliver said:


> Is that not what natural means..? If someone says they are natural, I thought it meant that they didn't take steroids/growth hormones




Natural is very misleading. It basically means that you are 'natural' during the contest. Somebody could have used AS for years, but then stopped prior to the contest. You could probably get away with as little as finishing PCT a week or so out from the contest, but you will not get away with being on AS during the contest. Most don't as it's more of a 'pride' issue. About a year ago I went to the same gym as a guy I use to go to school with and he was an absolute monster. I was shocked to find out he was natural.


----------



## the hittmann

Uncreative123 said:


> Wrong, one of them is on A.S. and you failed to spot it- proving my point. You brought up steroids and said that level of physique is IMPOSSIBLE without the use of AS. YOUR point is invalid and based on absolutely nothing but your own ignorance.
> 
> You have absolutely no idea what 'juicing' entails. You have absolutely no idea what testing entails. People can be DQ'd who aren't even on A.S. although it's very rare. People constantly fail natty testing. Do you think this is news to me or anyone?
> They can test for every compound with ease. It has absolutely nothing to do with 'running the right compounds'. The organic-structure of anabolics is obvious when you know what you're looking for. "Designer steroid" means nothing. That's what supplement companies use to legally sell shit they shouldn't be. All it is, is adding an extra carbon-atom so it can't be legally defined as steroid, even though it doesn't change the chemical structure at all. Then it's legal until somebody finds out about it and makes that specific structure illegal. This happens ALL the time. And it's totally irrelevant when it comes to drug testing. "Tren Xtreme" or whatever the fuck stupid PH nutri-shop would sell will still register as AS.
> T3, Clen, Dimethylamylamine, etc. aren't steroids, but they're still banned substances and they can test for them as well. It's not some guy in a garage doing the testing, they bring in companies to do it. It's not their first rodeo. They are experienced and know exactly what to look for.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, that's EXACTLY what you said.
> 
> " *Your body will only let you get so disproportionate before it stops growth. Thats why you have to work legs. *Plus legs will add strength to your upper body"
> 
> 
> 
> Put down the shovel. Admit your mistake.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Natural is very misleading. It basically means that you are 'natural' during the contest. Somebody could have used AS for years, but then stopped prior to the contest. You could probably get away with as little as finishing PCT a week or so out from the contest, but you will not get away with being on AS during the contest. Most don't as it's more of a 'pride' issue. About a year ago I went to the same gym as a guy I use to go to school with and he was an absolute monster. I was shocked to find out he was natural.



I'm really curious how you "know" none of them juice. You think they are going to believe everything you read. I don't doubt some of them are 100% percent natural, layne Norton for example is one that I honestly beleive is. We arguing different points, I said "your body will only let you get SO disproportionate" not, your body won't let you get disproportionate, meaning you can be disproportionate, I see it all the time. But you can't just work upper body and continually seeing gains, their will be a point where you will plateau and the only way to break through it will be to work lower body to create a solid foundation pb which to add more muscle. You said this was not true and posted wheelchair athletes that aren't natural, and when I call that out you post "natural" competitors asking me to identify them (maybe it was like some pop trivia game, Idk why it was even relevant) so I did make my point which is still correct, you just misinterpreted it. Out of curiousity what are your stats?


----------



## texshred777

the hittmann said:


> Out of curiousity what are your stats?


 
http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/li...ncreative123s-body-transformation-thread.html


----------



## Uncreative123

texshred777 said:


> http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/li...ncreative123s-body-transformation-thread.html




I dropped down to 9.5% by the end of the contest. Never posted final pics though. Bulking now. 




Sorry hittmann, which one did you say was the one on A.S.? I can't remember. Nice pics too. They go well with your argument.


----------



## Greatoliver

Out of interest, how common is steroid usage etc, outside the professional world?


----------



## TRENCHLORD

If I had to guess, I'd say that the 5th from the bottom looks the most steriodial. #257 
Might just be genetics and/or lighting, but his veins are popping way more than the other. A couple of those guys look almost sickly thin, but yet so muscled at the same time.


----------



## the hittmann

Uncreative123 said:


> I dropped down to 9.5% by the end of the contest. Never posted final pics though. Bulking now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry hittmann, which one did you say was the one on A.S.? I can't remember. Nice pics too. They go well with your argument.



Since when did this become a "guess which one is on aas" if i had to say its probably the very last pic, just because it doesn't look like he knows what he is doing, i could be wrong though, but there of course a few up there who have touched some substance. Either way I'm done arguing, my stats do all the talking, its clear between the two of us who knows what they are doing.


----------



## Uncreative123

the hittmann said:


> Since when did this become a "guess which one is on aas" if i had to say its probably the very last pic, just because it doesn't look like he knows what he is doing, i could be wrong though, but there of course a few up there who have touched some substance. Either way I'm done arguing, my stats do all the talking, its clear between the two of us who knows what they are doing.




First of all, I think everyone reading this thread at this point should be aware that *you are 18*. That puts the whole conversation into perspective.
It became a 'who's on AS' thread the second you said X-physique is only achievable through using steroids. Just because SOME do, doesn't mean ALL do- and that is what you're claiming. "Oh, he's in a wheel-chair? STEROIDS". "Oh, he's big? STEROIDS". That's how you're defending your ignorant 'have to do leg work to grow' statement. The comment was based in ignorance, not logic. The entire point of the pictures was to demonstrate that just because some people are big, the knee-jerk reaction shouldn't be to assume that they are on steroids, as the last picture demonstrates that people can take steroids and not look like that at all. There is much more involved. Again, we're dealing with a subject that you know nothing about, nor should you know anything about at your age. 
And for the record, the guy who 'looks like he doesn't know what he's doing' knows exactly what he's doing. He's a respected physiotherapist in the UK. I think those pics were like 8 weeks out from a contest.


This is my friend who has never in his life used A.S.- I have more to go on than 'just because he said so'.













You're exactly right, your stats DO do all the talking. They match your pics perfectly. You are 18. You don't know anything about A.S. because (and here's where I've really got you) 1) You've never done them and 2) If you have, at the ripe 'ol age of 18, you are an absolute moron.

Also- I bench more than you, I've lifted longer than you, I've DL'd more than you, and I don't believe you're squatting 425, and you're 18. The age factor means nothing to you, but it should be pretty comical for anyone over the age of 22 who can reflect back on that age and how they thought they had the world figured out then too. So let's see those vids. Prove me wrong.


----------



## Uncreative123

Greatoliver said:


> Out of interest, how common is steroid usage etc, outside the professional world?





Pretty common. More so than you'd think. Every gym I've ever been to has it's fair share of recreational users.


----------



## jaxadam

Greatoliver said:


> Out of interest, how common is steroid usage etc, outside the professional world?



Way more than you would imagine.


----------



## the hittmann

Uncreative123 said:


> First of all, I think everyone reading this thread at this point should be aware that *you are 18*. That puts the whole conversation into perspective.
> It became a 'who's on AS' thread the second you said X-physique is only achievable through using steroids. Just because SOME do, doesn't mean ALL do- and that is what you're claiming. "Oh, he's in a wheel-chair? STEROIDS". "Oh, he's big? STEROIDS". That's how you're defending your ignorant 'have to do leg work to grow' statement. The comment was based in ignorance, not logic. The entire point of the pictures was to demonstrate that just because some people are big, the knee-jerk reaction shouldn't be to assume that they are on steroids, as the last picture demonstrates that people can take steroids and not look like that at all. There is much more involved. Again, we're dealing with a subject that you know nothing about, nor should you know anything about at your age.
> And for the record, the guy who 'looks like he doesn't know what he's doing' knows exactly what he's doing. He's a respected physiotherapist in the UK. I think those pics were like 8 weeks out from a contest.
> 
> 
> This is my friend who has never in his life used A.S.- I have more to go on than 'just because he said so'.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're exactly right, your stats DO do all the talking. They match your pics perfectly. You are 18. You don't know anything about A.S. because (and here's where I've really got you) 1) You've never done them and 2) If you have, at the ripe 'ol age of 18, you are an absolute moron.
> 
> Also- I bench more than you, I've lifted longer than you, I've DL'd more than you, and I don't believe you're squatting 425, and you're 18. The age factor means nothing to you, but it should be pretty comical for anyone over the age of 22 who can reflect back on that age and how they thought they had the world figured out then too. So let's see those vids. Prove me wrong.


Wow, so by your logic if youve never done meth, you can know nothing about it or its effects, Or doctors who have never had cancer cant know anything about it or how it works? You are right on the fact that ive never done steroids, but ive done plenty of research, so since you know sooooooo much about them you must have tried them yourself or you just disproved your own point. I dont think just because your big you have done steroids, but the truth is a majority of competitors have and you even said how common it is. Also you still failed to disprove my calling out steroid use on the wheelchair competitors, i never said all big people do roids. And lastly you are 4 in taller than me and only 5-10lbs more having the same bf%, to have lifted for 4 plus years to be a perfectly average weight and physique for your height i think you should really read up on proper dieting and bulking. Also i dont see your videos? I will gladly put up a vid of me squatting, maybe it will motivate you to stop reading up and put your "knowledge" into action.


----------



## The Analyst

This thread is turning into a fucking flame-fest! Hittmann, you need to chill out, dude. Everyone knows that A.S. usage among professional bodybuilders is common. I'm not trying to pick on you, but people have a right to be skeptical that you can actually squat 425; given your age, height, weight, and how long you have been training.


----------



## the hittmann

The Analyst said:


> This thread is turning into a fucking flame-fest! Hittmann, you need to chill out, dude. Everyone knows that A.S. usage among professional bodybuilders is common. Im not trying to pick on you, but people have a right to be skeptical that you can actually squat 425; given your age, height, weight, and how long you have been training.



No doubt, is be happy to debate it via pm. I also have no problem doing a vid in a week or two. It is a lot of weight and I understand skepticism, but the argument wasn't about how much weight I can put up. Btw I have worked out with top notch bodybuilders and trainers so my learning curve was severly cut, my good friend just won the npc atl, so I have been pushed. I was never angry either and didn't mean to come off as an asshole.


----------



## USMarine75

WTF happened to this thread while I was gone lol? Can we keep it civil before it gets locked.

General interwebz forum rules apply... pics/video or it didn't happen...


----------



## Bekanor

I bought a set of weights on the weekend and I'm ordering a bench this week. 

My plan to start with is going to to be weights mon/wed/fri and pilates tue/thur giving myself the weekend to play video games and do lazy stuff.

I haven't really thought much about diet/supplement stuff, I know I probably should but there's so much reading and so many different mindsets (and probably a lot of bullshit since most of my research would be done on the web) and I really can't be bothered trying to separate useful information from complete rubbish and people trying to shove their way down everyone's throat on a body building forum. Not to mention that I have enough to think about in any given day without adding nutritional science into the mix as well.

For the record, I'm not trying to get into body building or trying to bulk up or anything like that. Just trying to get into better shape.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

Bekanor said:


> I bought a set of weights on the weekend and I'm ordering a bench this week.
> 
> My plan to start with is going to to be weights mon/wed/fri and pilates tue/thur giving myself the weekend to play video games and do lazy stuff.
> 
> I haven't really thought much about diet/supplement stuff, I know I probably should but there's so much reading and so many different mindsets (and probably a lot of bullshit since most of my research would be done on the web) and I really can't be bothered trying to separate useful information from complete rubbish and people trying to shove their way down everyone's throat on a body building forum. Not to mention that I have enough to think about in any given day without adding nutritional science into the mix as well.
> 
> For the record, I'm not trying to get into body building or trying to bulk up or anything like that. Just trying to get into better shape.


 
Well, many people will say that given your goals a genaral whole-body light weights/high reps 3x/week thing might be best.

I'd say go with some medium-weight/high rep excersises in a basic;

Monday= Pulls (pulldowns, cable rows, pullups, curls ect..)

Wednesday= Legs and Abs (leg-press, squats, leg-raises, crunches, leg-extensions, leg-curls, calves ect...) 

Friday= Pushes (bench, overhead-press, triceps, ect...)

I guess with your equipment limits some of this you can't do, but if you are just trying to tone up a little then you should be fine.
Even medium-wide stance body-weight squats can get the thighs frying if you just keep going and going. Go all the way down to a catchers stance for a good stretch.


----------



## Bekanor

TRENCHLORD said:


> Well, many people will say that given your goals a genaral whole-body light weights/high reps 3x/week thing might be best.
> 
> I'd say go with some medium-weight/high rep excersises in a basic;
> 
> Monday= Pulls (pulldowns, cable rows, pullups, curls ect..)
> 
> Wednesday= Legs and Abs (leg-press, squats, leg-raises, crunches, leg-extensions, leg-curls, calves ect...)
> 
> Friday= Pushes (bench, overhead-press, triceps, ect...)
> 
> I guess with your equipment limits some of this you can't do, but if you are just trying to tone up a little then you should be fine.
> Even medium-wide stance body-weight squats can get the thighs frying if you just keep going and going. Go all the way down to a catchers stance for a good stretch.



I weigh a lot so body weight squats are about all I really trust my legs to handle hahahaha.

The rest is pretty much what I had in mind, but in a slightly different configuration. I'm not really going to worry too much about leg/ab stuff on the mon/wed/fri until I see how my body reacts to the pilates in between. The last time I did pilates I could barely move for 2 days but that was going from doing no exercise at all and up until about a month ago I was doing full body training 3 nights a week so I'm optimistic. I did forearms, biceps and triceps tonight (I would have done some shoulder stuff as well but at 6'3" I'm a bit too tall to do standing shoulder presses in my room so that'll have to wait 'til I pick up a bench so hopefully Wednesday). 

Equipment will always be a limitation here but I'm sure I can find some creative exercises to make up for not having a lat machine or a power tower.

Goal-wise, I'd be stoked if I'm half as ripped as Uncreative in 11 weeks but even that's probably a bit unrealistic.  

Thanks for the helpful feedback.


----------



## Infamous Impact

Bekanor said:


> I weigh a lot so body weight squats are about all I really trust my legs to handle hahahaha.
> 
> The rest is pretty much what I had in mind, but in a slightly different configuration. I'm not really going to worry too much about leg/ab stuff on the mon/wed/fri until I see how my body reacts to the pilates in between. The last time I did pilates I could barely move for 2 days but that was going from doing no exercise at all and up until about a month ago I was doing full body training 3 nights a week so I'm optimistic. I did forearms, biceps and triceps tonight (I would have done some shoulder stuff as well but at 6'3" I'm a bit too tall to do standing shoulder presses in my room so that'll have to wait 'til I pick up a bench so hopefully Wednesday).
> 
> Equipment will always be a limitation here but I'm sure I can find some creative exercises to make up for not having a lat machine or a power tower.
> 
> Goal-wise, I'd be stoked if I'm half as ripped as Uncreative in 11 weeks but even that's probably a bit unrealistic.
> 
> Thanks for the helpful feedback.


1. Your legs can take a pounding. I squatted 145 the first time I squatted at a bodyweight of 115 with relative ease.
2. Shoulder presses are amazing, lack of room or equipment isn't a good enough excuse to avoid it. Do handstand pushups if you need to. Those are amazing.


----------



## MFB

Is there a good way to gauge around what weight you should be starting out squatting? Before I stopped doing chest presses/pull-downs I was doing around 110lbs total so would that be about right as well transferring to straight bar or knock off some of the weight?


----------



## USMarine75

MFB said:


> Is there a good way to gauge around what weight you should be starting out squatting? Before I stopped doing chest presses/pull-downs I was doing around 110lbs total so would that be about right as well transferring to straight bar or knock off some of the weight?



More so than any other excercise, the best bet is to start light and just worry about form. Once your comfortable with the form your body will let you know what weight you can handle. For most FNGs I'd say start with the olympic bar + 25s = 95 lbs, so you can work on balance and gauging how to squeeze your shoulder blades properly to balance the bar so your not lifting with your neck. Have someone checking your form if possible. After that you'll find you can probably jump up relatively quick over the next couple days until you reach an initial plateau that is due to your current strength constraints... from there it will be all about muscle growth blah blah blah.

Because of injuries I have to stay away from exercises that compress my spine so personally I havent squatted or done cleans in awhile . So I'll leave the specifics of form to guys like Uncreative and Trench... but form is the key. Lower back injuries are forever (whether they're caused by improper form or RPGs lol)...

Best piece of advice I ever got was from a deleted scene from "Pumping Iron" lol. Arnold is minding his own business curling and getting ready for his comeback at the 1980 Mr O. Some nobody douche in the gym is curling bigger dumbbells than Arnold and he starts talking smack... saying "look at me I'm curling more than Arnold!" So Arnold puts down his weights and pops a 24" (?) biceps pose and says in that ridiculous accent, "yeah but do your arms look like these?" 

tl;dr unless your competing in a weightlifting competition, then weightlifting isnt a competition! Fuck the guy next to you thats using a ridiculous amount of body english and 75% back to curl that 135 lbs barbell... get the form right!


----------



## MFB

Thanks 

I had a feeling my initial idea would be off since machines are easier than free weights, so I'll probably go with the bar + 15s for an even 90 (bars are 60lbs if I recall correctly, I'm probably wrong though)


----------



## USMarine75

^ Should be 45 lbs (usually, if 7'x2" bar). I've been lifting for 20 years and if it's 60 then I'm stronger than I thought I was! 

Stay away from machines IMO... Learn proper form and use an olympic bar in a squat box for safety...


----------



## UnderTheSign

Regular bars *should* always be 45. 

Talking machines is beating a dead horse, the only ones I like are the lat pull (alternative to pullups/chins) and the (reverse) pec deck for shoulder work.


----------



## MFB

Hmm, I don't know where I remember reading the 60 vs. 45lbs bar but I guess I was off like expected


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Well seeing as i forgot to post it. . .i did get 500 on deadlift on wednesday, which is a new PR by 20 pounds.


----------



## Bekanor

Infamous Impact said:


> 1. Your legs can take a pounding. I squatted 145 the first time I squatted at a bodyweight of 115 with relative ease.
> 2. Shoulder presses are amazing, lack of room or equipment isn't a good enough excuse to avoid it. Do handstand pushups if you need to. Those are amazing.



I'm not going to avoid them completely, I just have to put them off until I get a bench, otherwise I'll crack my ceiling with my bar.


----------



## Uncreative123

the hittmann said:


> Wow, so by your logic if youve never done meth, you can know nothing about it or its effects, Or doctors who have never had cancer cant know anything about it or how it works? You are right on the fact that ive never done steroids, but ive done plenty of research, so since you know sooooooo much about them you must have tried them yourself or you just disproved your own point.



You're comparing a schedule i drug to an incorrectly classified schedule iii drug and then drawing an even more ridiculous line to cancer research. Apples and Oranges wouldn't even be an accurate analogy. No drug has as much propaganda surrounding it as steroids do (ref. Ben Affleck video) making research that much more difficult. You can't reference medical journals like you could for cancer. You're reading opinions on underground sites from peoples personal experiences. Experiences that differ GREATLY.
"So by your logic" you can read a review of a movie, without ever actually having seen it, but then tell everybody that you know everything about it and whether it was good or bad. 



> I dont think just because your big you have done steroids, but the truth is a majority of competitors have and you even said how common it is. Also you still failed to disprove my calling out steroid use on the wheelchair competitors, i never said all big people do roids.



Every sentence you type contradicts the previous one. "You don't have to do steroids to be big". "Those guys are big, they've obviously done steroids." You don't know them. They compete in tested competitions. They're nowhere near Phil Heath size. Yet for some reason you think you can proclaim with all certainty you know everything they put in their bodies regardless of how many examples I provide of natural physiques. Ah, to be young and dumb.



> And lastly you are 4 in taller than me and only 5-10lbs more having the same bf%, to have lifted for 4 plus years to be a perfectly average weight and physique for your height i think you should really read up on proper dieting and bulking. Also i dont see your videos? I will gladly put up a vid of me squatting, maybe it will motivate you to stop reading up and put your "knowledge" into action.



lol, if you weren't 18 and ignorant about the one thing you claim to know anything about, your condescension wouldn't be nearly as laughable and hilarious as it is. 




the hittmann said:


> No doubt, is be happy to debate it via pm. I also have no problem doing a vid in a week or two. It is a lot of weight and I understand skepticism, but the argument wasn't about how much weight I can put up. .




It's 2012- why would it take you two weeks to post pics/video? Unless you're spending the time scouring for pics and videos online. I think we're going to need spoon pics now.


----------



## Tiger

^ Oddly enough I go on the internet to relax and chill out.


----------



## the hittmann

Uncreative123 said:


> You're comparing a schedule i drug to an incorrectly classified schedule iii drug and then drawing an even more ridiculous line to cancer research. Apples and Oranges wouldn't even be an accurate analogy. No drug has as much propaganda surrounding it as steroids do (ref. Ben Affleck video) making research that much more difficult. You can't reference medical journals like you could for cancer. You're reading opinions on underground sites from peoples personal experiences. Experiences that differ GREATLY.
> "So by your logic" you can read a review of a movie, without ever actually having seen it, but then tell everybody that you know everything about it and whether it was good or bad.
> 
> 
> 
> Every sentence you type contradicts the previous one. "You don't have to do steroids to be big". "Those guys are big, they've obviously done steroids." You don't know them. They compete in tested competitions. They're nowhere near Phil Heath size. Yet for some reason you think you can proclaim with all certainty you know everything they put in their bodies regardless of how many examples I provide of natural physiques. Ah, to be young and dumb.
> 
> 
> 
> lol, if you weren't 18 and ignorant about the one thing you claim to know anything about, your condescension wouldn't be nearly as laughable and hilarious as it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's 2012- why would it take you two weeks to post pics/video? Unless you're spending the time scouring for pics and videos online. I think we're going to need spoon pics now.


Two weeks, the fuck? No one asked for a video until a couple days ago, give a man time to get in the gym. I'm not even going to keep this argument going, you obviously don't get what I'm saying so to end it im going to put up a video of me squatting 400+ parallel to show who really knows what they are doing in the gym. I will wear either a periphery or aal shirt so you know its legit. Btw where are your videos of your 315+ bench. I'm calling you out on it, post vid or we know your frauding.


----------



## Murmel

USMarine75 said:


> tl;dr unless your competing in a weightlifting competition, then weightlifting isnt a competition! Fuck the guy next to you thats using a ridiculous amount of *body english* and 75% back to curl that 135 lbs barbell... get the form right!



What's body english?


----------



## USMarine75

Murmel said:


> What's body english?


 
Using body swing / momentum to lift the weight. You most often it see it during barbell curls where the lifter is using mostly back and arm swing to lift the weight instead of concentrating on the biceps. Also see it a lot in people doing pull ups where there doing a "kip" to kind of swing their body up rather than pull it up. 

It's usually horrific form, although if done right it can be used at the end of a set to get a few more extra reps in, basically overcoming your inability to get the positive lift but allowing you to still work the negative. But again, there's always the fine line between getting a few extra reps and hurting yourself through bad technique... and there's usually better ways to get a few extra negatives in at the end anyways.

FWIW... I googled "Body English" for a pic and got some weird shit lol


----------



## Murmel

I was just confused about the "english" part. Didn't know it had other meanings than you know, the English language


----------



## USMarine75

^ Well fuck you then! 

I googled Body Swedish and all I got were massages and hot chicks with big boobs.


----------



## highlordmugfug

Murmel said:


> I was just confused about the "english" part. Didn't know it had other meanings than you know, the English language


English is a term from pool.

I actually knew what USmarine meant.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

USMarine75 said:


>


 
This alone inspires many extra positive contractions.
You can forget about negative reps though, because there's nothing going to go lower after seeing this.


----------



## Uncreative123

the hittmann said:


> Two weeks, the fuck? No one asked for a video until a couple days ago, give a man time to get in the gym. I'm not even going to keep this argument going, you obviously don't get what I'm saying so to end it im going to put up a video of me squatting 400+ parallel to show who really knows what they are doing in the gym. I will wear either a periphery or aal shirt so you know its legit. Btw where are your videos of your 315+ bench. I'm calling you out on it, post vid or we know your frauding.




haha, What?? It takes you two weeks to get into the gym? What am I missing here? You said it was going to take you a week or two to make a video. And now it's going to take a week or two to get into the gym? Maybe you're not going deep enough on leg press?

That reminds me, according to your remedial math skills Ronnie Coleman should be able to Squat what, 1150 lbs? Since he's LP'ing 2300 x 8 here in this vid:


(Ref- "you should have a least a 400 lb squat if you're LP'ing 800+)
Even though, as a former power-lifter, he was squatting a mere  800 lbs (34% of his LP, which is directly proportional to my LP/Squat) at the time. Maybe he doesn't know what he's doing either. 


And sorry I don't have any videos of me benching 315  



....I only have a video of me benching 335 x 3  It's older. Back from my period where I didn't know how to bulk and Prior to the period where I didn't know how to diet down 28 lbs and 12.5% bodyfat in 12 weeks without losing any strength (8 lbs of lean muscle gained)


----------



## the hittmann

Uncreative123 said:


> haha, What?? It takes you two weeks to get into the gym? What am I missing here? You said it was going to take you a week or two to make a video. And now it's going to take a week or two to get into the gym? Maybe you're not going deep enough on leg press?
> 
> That reminds me, according to your remedial math skills Ronnie Coleman should be able to Squat what, 1150 lbs? Since he's LP'ing 2300 x 8 here in this vid:
> 
> 
> (Ref- "you should have a least a 400 lb squat if you're LP'ing 800+)
> Even though, as a former power-lifter, he was squatting a mere  800 lbs (34% of his LP, which is directly proportional to my LP/Squat) at the time. Maybe he doesn't know what he's doing either.
> 
> 
> And sorry I don't have any videos of me benching 315
> 
> 
> 
> ....I only have a video of me benching 335 x 3  It's older. Back from my period where I didn't know how to bulk and Prior to the period where I didn't know how to diet down 28 lbs and 12.5% bodyfat in 12 weeks without losing any strength (8 lbs of lean muscle gained)




My bad I didn't realize I said a couple weeks, I will put the video up this week, if not today. 
And feel free to post your bench video or make a new one. You said you didn't lose any strength so it should be no problem am I right? And I didn't say you will have a 400lb squat if you are lp 800, I said you should be squatting closer to 400 in the 315-365 range. And for Ronnie Coleman, as you keep going up in weight the relation to squat and lp will be greater. I remember when I first started out and could only squat 150, my lp wasn't but 200, but as my squat went up my leg press did to, not equally though. When I could squat 315 my lp was at 700 now its about 1000( I don't know exactly I don't max out on lp). Either way I wouldn't be two concerned trying to compare anybody's stats to an 8x Mr olympia. The dude lifts weight none of us will ever come close to


----------



## Tiger

I see the dick measuring thread is continuing.


----------



## Tiger

Didnt want to make a thread but heres part of my living room: 






Need a rack and a mirror. I know giganticmirrors.com sell them but Id like something for half that price.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

^nice.
Is that a cheapo bar like the two olympic bars I currently have (weiders that came with the 300sets, might be rated for 400-500), or is it an aftermarket quality bar?

Just asking because I've been researching a few threads on the various forums trying to decide which good bar to buy now that I'm almost re-arranged and ready to assemble my dirt-cheap weider 565 rack.
My rack's weakest link is the safety bars which are only rated at 300, but based on what other 565 owners say, they will easily handle 500 as long as the bar isn't dropped on them.

Anyways, I'm leaning towards the Texas power bar from Westside barbell because they say it's very tight and rigid and has the 1.125" grip which is my favorite size for everything except squat. For squats I always liked the super thick bars but since one of my cheap bars is a bit thicker than 1.125, and I won't be going real heavy anyways, I think I'll just use it for squats and use the TPB for everything else.
The cheapo bar I'm using now for bench is a 1.125", but that thing starts flexing at about 225, and really starts bending bad at 315 lol.

Also, smart move to get the mirror, I've always thought it helps from a psychological standpoint. it just improves motivation to see yourself when fully pumped and working.


----------



## the hittmann

Started a thread where I posted my video, check it out.


----------



## Tiger

TRENCHLORD said:


> ^nice.
> Is that a cheapo bar like the two olympic bars I currently have (weiders that came with the 300sets, might be rated for 400-500), or is it an aftermarket quality bar?
> 
> Just asking because I've been researching a few threads on the various forums trying to decide which good bar to buy now that I'm almost re-arranged and ready to assemble my dirt-cheap weider 565 rack.
> My rack's weakest link is the safety bars which are only rated at 300, but based on what other 565 owners say, they will easily handle 500 as long as the bar isn't dropped on them.
> 
> Anyways, I'm leaning towards the Texas power bar from Westside barbell because they say it's very tight and rigid and has the 1.125" grip which is my favorite size for everything except squat. For squats I always liked the super thick bars but since one of my cheap bars is a bit thicker than 1.125, and I won't be going real heavy anyways, I think I'll just use it for squats and use the TPB for everything else.
> The cheapo bar I'm using now for bench is a 1.125", but that thing starts flexing at about 225, and really starts bending bad at 315 lol.
> 
> Also, smart move to get the mirror, I've always thought it helps from a psychological standpoint. it just improves motivation to see yourself when fully pumped and working.



Man so far its held up solid, but Ive not pulled anything heavier than 375 on it, and without having filmed it, Im not sure. The guy had a few higher quality bars for about 50 bucks more, but I doubt my wife and I will need to much more weight put on. We are little people, haha. If it gets fucked up I am not too concerned, Ill get something better.

My thing with the mirror is form, form, form. I never realized I had a thousand checklists I go over as I go to pull and not having the mirror in front of me has weirded me out. Plus since my wife will be using the same rig Id feel a lot more comfortable knowing she can check herself too if Im not there.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

Tiger said:


> Man so far its held up solid, but Ive not pulled anything heavier than 375 on it, and without having filmed it, Im not sure. The guy had a few higher quality bars for about 50 bucks more, but I doubt my wife and I will need to much more weight put on. We are little people, haha. If it gets fucked up I am not too concerned, Ill get something better.
> 
> My thing with the mirror is form, form, form. I never realized I had a thousand checklists I go over as I go to pull and not having the mirror in front of me has weirded me out. Plus since my wife will be using the same rig Id feel a lot more comfortable knowing she can check herself too if Im not there.


 
Yeah mirrors can help form 4sure. I never knew I held my left elbow down more than the right side on squats until I was at a good gym with a mirror in front. Fixed the problem.


----------



## USMarine75

Tiger said:


> I see the dick measuring thread is continuing.


 
I didnt want to say anything because I'm a humble guy... it's actually my best trait... but that was my dick Ronnie Coleman was leg pressing in the video.


----------



## Murmel

Haven't been to the gym in 3 weeks now. I'm getting abstinence problems 
The reason is that I didn't wanna renew my membership at my old gym because I was going to switch to a different one. But you hav to be 18 for that one (no problem as of yesterday). Will see if I can get there tomorrow.

Haven't been there ever yet, but I'm pretty certain it's full of bros and jocks that look at you like you're an inferior organism 
I'm just hoping to god that they have a squat rack (hopefully several) and more than 1 bench.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

Murmel said:


> Haven't been to the gym in 3 weeks now. I'm getting abstinence problems
> The reason is that I didn't wanna renew my membership at my old gym because I was going to switch to a different one. But you hav to be 18 for that one (no problem as of yesterday). Will see if I can get there tomorrow.
> 
> Haven't been there ever yet, but I'm pretty certain it's full of bros and jocks that look at you like you're an inferior organism
> I'm just hoping to god that they have a squat rack (hopefully several) and more than 1 bench.


 
Happy adulthood (18th) man. 

Yeah half those guys will lift themselves right out of the game by constantly showing off for eachother and always placing poundage above roundage .

Lifting with some good resistance is important, but viewing the weights as a whole bag of sculpting tools instead of only a ruler/scale is much more productive IMO.

Even when some guys go medium or higher reps, they still have this preconcieved number they're trying for which causes them to just rush through the reps so that they don't fail to get their rep count.

Focusing on making every rep as individually productive as posible and leaving the rep count total to happenstance is more productive IMO.

For example, I've seen guys rushing through reps with 225 on bench just so they can get the 10 reps, when they'd be much better off repping with precision and getting more soreness out of an ultra-controlled 6 or 7 reps.
Squats are ussually one of the worst for inspiring this less feelfull lifting style.
In fact it doesn't hurt to change up rep cadence/speed on purpose from set to set or from workout to workout, as this greatly effects the part of the motion that is accented (resistence wise).


----------



## Murmel

Fuck, today the registration failed. I'll fix it tomorrow though. But I won't be able to train until wednesday because it needs like a 12 hour activation time. Fuck this I want to deadlift


----------



## texshred777

Murmel said:


> Fuck, today the registration failed. I'll fix it tomorrow though. But I won't be able to train until wednesday because it needs like a 12 hour activation time. Fuck this I want to deadlift



I feel you my current gym has a decent dumbbell selection but no barbells except the smith machines..which I hate. Oh well, the dumbbell variants are doing me well for now.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

TRENCHLORD said:


> My short-term goal is to be about 232 and noticably harder looking (and much tanner lol) by the end of the month.


 
Well, I failed, but I'm viewing it as a success .
As of June 1st my dry morning weight was 234, and now I'm at 233.
So in 5 weeks I've shed 14 pounds and have been eating high protien and lifting hard so I don't think I've lost any muscle at all.

Getting desperate for a pig out at the china buffet though. 
Have been very portion consious and have stuck with the limited beer intake (2or3/night) right after either weight workout or mild cardio,
so that way it's more likely to get utilized instead of bellyized.

I'll continue improvement and post some comparison pics when the difference is more dramatic. Already seeing a good difference in the mirror though,
and I had to get a shoe string to keep my size 38s from falling down all the time. Forgive me, but I just can't stand the Limp Buzzcunt look .


----------



## Infamous Impact

Can anyone help me with muscle imbalances? I've been sprinting and pole vaulting for the last 9 months, and the right side of my body is way stronger than the left side because of this. It affects me most on arm strength, and the right lat is almost twice the size of the left one.


----------



## the hittmann

Infamous Impact said:


> Can anyone help me with muscle imbalances? I've been sprinting and pole vaulting for the last 9 months, and the right side of my body is way stronger than the left side because of this. It affects me most on arm strength, and the right lat is almost twice the size of the left one.



You could do some extra reps on your left side when doing certain isolation excerises. You could isolate the lat by doing one arm pulldowns ect..


----------



## TRENCHLORD

Found this. Works for lighter people better I'm sure.


----------



## Tiger

^ Beast Skills - Tutorials


----------



## Infamous Impact

the hittmann said:


> You could do some extra reps on your left side when doing certain isolation excerises. You could isolate the lat by doing one arm pulldowns ect..


I don't train for size, I train for strength, since I need a good power to weight ratio for my sport, and this imbalance is affecting me strengthwise now.


TRENCHLORD said:


> Found this. Works for lighter people better I'm sure.



Thanks.


Tiger said:


> ^ Beast Skills - Tutorials


I love Beast Skills. Learned to walk on my hands from his tutorial.

So unilateral exercises, got it. One arm pullups, pistol squats, anything else?


----------



## Ibanezsam4

so i have brand new motivation for lifting bigger weights and getting stronger. long story short there's an athletic director at my university's gym that is irritated by the sheer fact i exist. i worked out with minimalist shoes and got kicked out because apparently not allowed (no posted rules that state this). So i came in wearing a more conventional looking shoe (still thin and minimal), and now he seems to just be pissed off when i walk in, he shoots dirty looks at me and my girlfriend while we work out and yeah... he has no power over me because im not in a sports program. so i think the appropriate response is to become a serious beast over there and put to shame all his athletes and make my existence even more of a middle finger to his face.... oh and figure out what is appropriate footwear there, cuz if he pulled that out of his ass im going to have so much fun with this. 

anybody have any "whatdafuq" exercise suggestions that will make him hate me more?


----------



## TankJon666

Ibanezsam4 said:


> so i have brand new motivation for lifting bigger weights and getting stronger. long story short there's an athletic director at my university's gym that is irritated by the sheer fact i exist. i worked out with minimalist shoes and got kicked out because apparently not allowed (no posted rules that state this). So i came in wearing a more conventional looking shoe (still thin and minimal), and now he seems to just be pissed off when i walk in, he shoots dirty looks at me and my girlfriend while we work out and yeah... he has no power over me because im not in a sports program. so i think the appropriate response is to become a serious beast over there and put to shame all his athletes and make my existence even more of a middle finger to his face.... oh and figure out what is appropriate footwear there, cuz if he pulled that out of his ass im going to have so much fun with this.
> 
> anybody have any "whatdafuq" exercise suggestions that will make him hate me more?



Build your squats and deadlifts till your a monster. You'll build size quickly and you can lord it above all the "curls for gurls" posers.


----------



## TankJon666

TRENCHLORD said:


> Well, I failed, but I'm viewing it as a success .
> As of June 1st my dry morning weight was 234, and now I'm at 233.
> So in 5 weeks I've shed 14 pounds and have been eating high protien and lifting hard so I don't think I've lost any muscle at all.
> 
> Getting desperate for a pig out at the china buffet though.
> Have been very portion consious and have stuck with the limited beer intake (2or3/night) right after either weight workout or mild cardio,
> so that way it's more likely to get utilized instead of bellyized.
> 
> I'll continue improvement and post some comparison pics when the difference is more dramatic. Already seeing a good difference in the mirror though,
> and I had to get a shoe string to keep my size 38s from falling down all the time. Forgive me, but I just can't stand the Limp Buzzcunt look .



Ditch the beer dude. Its your worst enemy. Its all sugar and your body won't utilise it for shit other than putting fat around your middle. Those 3 beers will be around 600 calories. And for what? Thats all your days excersise or more gone in 3 drinks. Convert that to food and thats nearly 3 standard size Snickers bars ...would you eat 3 snickers bars a day?

Now multiply that by say 5 nights a week and your looking at 3000 calories ...4200 if you have 3 beers every night. 4200!!!!!!!!

You've done pretty awesome to lose 14 pounds in 5 weeks but if you had left out the beer that could have been anywhere from 20 to 25 pounds.

Regarding the china buffet thing. If you are eating lean and clean all week then you should treat yourself to something like that once every 2-3 weeks. It'll keep you sane. Trust me!

Apologies if this is bordering on "bro-science" but beer aint great if your trying to lose weight.

Out of interest what are you eating on a daily basis?


----------



## highlordmugfug

^ 
2:00: all junk food, ya feel me?



Depending on his workout and lifestyle, the beer could be just fine for him. But yeah it'd probably be better to cut it out (though I remember reading about 1 study where 1 alcoholic drink slightly increased testosterone, which I would think would help with building muscle).


----------



## Murmel

^
Dude is seriously strong as fuck in his entire upper body. Pretty ridiculous.
My shoulders hurt just by watching him though


----------



## TRENCHLORD

TankJon666 said:


> Ditch the beer dude. Its your worst enemy. Its all sugar and your body won't utilise it for shit other than putting fat around your middle. Those 3 beers will be around 600 calories. And for what? Thats all your days excersise or more gone in 3 drinks. Convert that to food and thats nearly 3 standard size Snickers bars ...would you eat 3 snickers bars a day?
> 
> Now multiply that by say 5 nights a week and your looking at 3000 calories ...4200 if you have 3 beers every night. 4200!!!!!!!!
> 
> You've done pretty awesome to lose 14 pounds in 5 weeks but if you had left out the beer that could have been anywhere from 20 to 25 pounds.
> 
> Regarding the china buffet thing. If you are eating lean and clean all week then you should treat yourself to something like that once every 2-3 weeks. It'll keep you sane. Trust me!
> 
> Apologies if this is bordering on "bro-science" but beer aint great if your trying to lose weight.
> 
> Out of interest what are you eating on a daily basis?


 
Yeah I can't argue, you're definitely right in general on all of this.
I'm hitting the sticking point now, so I'll either have to increase cardio or cut back calories a hair more to continue dropping.
Trying to wein calories semi-slowly though so I don't drop muscle either.
Post workout many guys slam a sugar drink though, so a bit of those beer calories do get used to stabalize blood sugar levels and transport the meat protien into the muscles post-workout.
But yeah, 3 is probably 2 too many .
Will post back late-night about diet specifics (gotta take kid to summer reading program right now).


----------



## the hittmann

Ibanezsam4 said:


> so i have brand new motivation for lifting bigger weights and getting stronger. long story short there's an athletic director at my university's gym that is irritated by the sheer fact i exist. i worked out with minimalist shoes and got kicked out because apparently not allowed (no posted rules that state this). So i came in wearing a more conventional looking shoe (still thin and minimal), and now he seems to just be pissed off when i walk in, he shoots dirty looks at me and my girlfriend while we work out and yeah... he has no power over me because im not in a sports program. so i think the appropriate response is to become a serious beast over there and put to shame all his athletes and make my existence even more of a middle finger to his face.... oh and figure out what is appropriate footwear there, cuz if he pulled that out of his ass im going to have so much fun with this.
> 
> anybody have any "whatdafuq" exercise suggestions that will make him hate me more?



Ha, sounds a lot like what I did in high school. The football coach never liked me as I was in band and didn't play any sports. I had been lifting for a while before I came to the school, so it was hilarious when I got into his weight lifting class. The first day was a leg workout and it was Squats 5 sets of 10. All of his football players where squatting 225-285, so when I did 315 for 10 his mouth dropped and he started trying to get me to play football and didn't make me do sprints when he would punish the class, kind of funny how shallow and flawed some coaches perceptions are just cause you are music nerd.


----------



## Infamous Impact

the hittmann said:


> Ha, sounds a lot like what I did in high school. The football coach never liked me as I was in band and didn't play any sports. I had been lifting for a while before I came to the school, so it was hilarious when I got into his weight lifting class. The first day was a leg workout and it was Squats 5 sets of 10. All of his football players where squatting 225-285, so when I did 315 for 10 his mouth dropped and he started trying to get me to play football and didn't make me do sprints when he would punish the class, kind of funny how shallow and flawed some coaches perceptions are just cause you are music nerd.


My coach smirked when he saw me trying out for track, because before that he always walking out of my Music Theory class. I carried my team to states this year. Looks can be deceiving.


----------



## the hittmann

Infamous Impact said:


> My coach smirked when he saw me trying out for track, because before that he always walking out of my Music Theory class. I carried my team to states this year. Looks can be deceiving.



I know, I love breaking the music nerd stereotype, uncoordinated, awkward, shy, ect...


----------



## TRENCHLORD

TankJon666 said:


> Out of interest what are you eating on a daily basis?


 
Most all my meals hit in between 400-600 calories, and all of them are moderate(30g) to high(50g) protien.
As for carbs and fat, I try to rotate between low carb/moderate fat and moderate carb/low fat meals, thereby keeping the total meal calories in check and some what consistant.
So if I were to average out my macro nutrient meal totals it would be something like 40g protien, 30g carbs, and 25g fat, totaling around 500 calories. But as I said, in reality some meals are higher carb and virtually no fat, and some are higher fat and lower carb totals. Meals are consumed every 3-4hrs most of the time.

During 99 through 01 was fairly strict following the ABC(anabolic burst cycling) program. It's basicaly a standerd calorie rotation system to the extreme.
For 14 days you act a complete glutton and consume so much food that it's almost sickening no matter if you're hungry or not, then for the next 14 days you follow a very strict cutting diet that is cyclical in nature because you have a maintanence calorie day, followed by a 200-300 under maintanence day, and then a slightly(100-200 IIRC) over calorie day.
I liked the program because of the constant change and I had nothing really better to do at the time anyway .
If it's a good program or not is debatable, but the one thing I really got from it was the ability to estimate calories and macro-profiles just by looking at the meal substance and portion size.
The first thing I done when starting the program was get the dreaded calorie counter which also of course had the macro breakdown for most food (especially whole food sources) that was a learning tool 4sure.
The next thing i done was buy a food scale for most stuff and digital postal scales for measuring different supplement powders and such since some of the scoop sizes varied and I wasn't sure on the containers if they meant a packed in ;leval scoop, or a fluffed up level or rounded scoop.
I did find some products that were a bit misleading if going off the label instructions.

Anyways, I was literally weighing and calculating everything myself, and even though I haven't done that in a long time, i still can eyeball a plate of food and give a much closer calorie and macro breakdown than your average person, and probably much closer than the average novice trainer as well. 

My main food sources are beef, turkey, chicken, deer, fish, whole grains, veggies, milk, protien supps, and last but not least, boston lagers .
I'm being very limited with any snacks or junk food, although as soon as I wake up in the morning it's a 50g ON gold standard shake and a single small size little debbie snack cake.
If there's any good time for a slight sugar boost, it's as soon as you wake up and post workout, so that's when I indulge the goodies.

My real goal is just to be at the same conditioning that was up until 07, which I'm guessing was always between 10% and 12% bf.
Where i slipped was working lots of overtime at the factory and being too lazy to prepare my own lunches and break snacks. I started eating from the vending machines every couple hours and fell out of lifting as often as needed to maintain good condition.

If I can hold somewhere in the 12% bf range it would be fine for me. Wouldn't mind gaining weight either if my bf% was down lower.
I'm just guessing based off Uncreative's bf level testing in his thread that I'm currently around the 15% range give or take.

Here's my best shot from a few weeks back, if anyone would be so kind to tell me about what body fat % it is in the photo, I'd be most appreciative.







And here's the page with the belly fat shots.
http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/li...658-anyone-here-bench-lift-weights-etc-7.html


----------



## TankJon666

TRENCHLORD said:


> Most all my meals hit in between 400-600 calories, and all of them are moderate(30g) to high(50g) protien.
> As for carbs and fat, I try to rotate between low carb/moderate fat and moderate carb/low fat meals, thereby keeping the total meal calories in check and some what consistant.
> So if I were to average out my macro nutrient meal totals it would be something like 40g protien, 30g carbs, and 25g fat, totaling around 500 calories. But as I said, in reality some meals are higher carb and virtually no fat, and some are higher fat and lower carb totals. Meals are consumed every 3-4hrs most of the time.
> 
> During 99 through 01 was fairly strict following the ABC(anabolic burst cycling) program. It's basicaly a standerd calorie rotation system to the extreme.
> For 14 days you act a complete glutton and consume so much food that it's almost sickening no matter if you're hungry or not, then for the next 14 days you follow a very strict cutting diet that is cyclical in nature because you have a maintanence calorie day, followed by a 200-300 under maintanence day, and then a slightly(100-200 IIRC) over calorie day.
> I liked the program because of the constant change and I had nothing really better to do at the time anyway .
> If it's a good program or not is debatable, but the one thing I really got from it was the ability to estimate calories and macro-profiles just by looking at the meal substance and portion size.
> The first thing I done when starting the program was get the dreaded calorie counter which also of course had the macro breakdown for most food (especially whole food sources) that was a learning tool 4sure.
> The next thing i done was buy a food scale for most stuff and digital postal scales for measuring different supplement powders and such since some of the scoop sizes varied and I wasn't sure on the containers if they meant a packed in ;leval scoop, or a fluffed up level or rounded scoop.
> I did find some products that were a bit misleading if going off the label instructions.
> 
> Anyways, I was literally weighing and calculating everything myself, and even though I haven't done that in a long time, i still can eyeball a plate of food and give a much closer calorie and macro breakdown than your average person, and probably much closer than the average novice trainer as well.
> 
> My main food sources are beef, turkey, chicken, deer, fish, whole grains, veggies, milk, protien supps, and last but not least, boston lagers .
> I'm being very limited with any snacks or junk food, although as soon as I wake up in the morning it's a 50g ON gold standard shake and a single small size little debbie snack cake.
> If there's any good time for a slight sugar boost, it's as soon as you wake up and post workout, so that's when I indulge the goodies.
> 
> My real goal is just to be at the same conditioning that was up until 07, which I'm guessing was always between 10% and 12% bf.
> Where i slipped was working lots of overtime at the factory and being too lazy to prepare my own lunches and break snacks. I started eating from the vending machines every couple hours and fell out of lifting as often as needed to maintain good condition.
> 
> If I can hold somewhere in the 12% bf range it would be fine for me. Wouldn't mind gaining weight either if my bf% was down lower.
> I'm just guessing based off Uncreative's bf level testing in his thread that I'm currently around the 15% range give or take.
> 
> Here's my best shot from a few weeks back, if anyone would be so kind to tell me about what body fat % it is in the photo, I'd be most appreciative.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And here's the page with the belly fat shots.
> http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/li...658-anyone-here-bench-lift-weights-etc-7.html



I'd say your diet is good. It's clear your aiming to build mass. Have you tried dropping the carbs in the evening? Other than a post workout shake I dont have any carbs after 6pm, other than fibrous greens. This approach has helped me retain muscle mass and lose fat.
You thought of perhaps just having 2-3 beers a week?
Stopping drinking made a huge difference for me.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

TankJon666 said:


> I'd say your diet is good. It's clear your aiming to build mass. Have you tried dropping the carbs in the evening? Other than a post workout shake I dont have any carbs after 6pm, other than fibrous greens. This approach has helped me retain muscle mass and lose fat.
> You thought of perhaps just having 2-3 beers a week?
> Stopping drinking made a huge difference for me.


 
With my scheduale it would be no carbs after 12:00am (since don't sleep until almost sun rise), but yeah, that sounds like a good option.
Probably will have to cut beer to get more vascular looking like used to be,
but I thought should at least try taking it down to one or two/night (work out late night) first. Would hate to think i gave it up if didn't need to. (logic of an alcoholic)


----------



## Murmel

Was finally able to haul my ass to the new gym today... And I don't like it. My old gym felt much better even though it wasn't really better equipped.
The new gym does have some sort of squat rack, but I couldn't see any pins on the inside so I'll gonna explore it further when it's time for legs.
Machine wise it's pretty modern, which I don't like, doesn't have that cozy feeling 

The barbell section of the gym is super tight, there's barely any room to deadlift.
Speaking of deadlifts, I did back/biceps today and I REALLY overestimated how much I could pull today. So my lower back is feeling a bit bad right now, but it'll go away 
It doesn't have a mirror room either for streching and stuff, which is weird, just like 2 yoga mats in a corner.

I was definitely expecting much more, I'll probably switch back to my old gym, even if it's further away.

Pull-ups are the most painful exercise in the world btw. Makes me want to vomit after doing them


----------



## TRENCHLORD

^Yeah, enviorement is half the battle with me as well (at least it was for years while hopping around to different area gyms).
I hate gyms that are cramped and also have quite a few custumers because pacing around between sets is a must for me.

Also, some racks I've encountered didn't even have holes for the safetys that went low enough for deep squats or benches inside the rack (for alone lifting).
And other racks I've seen had a full four inches between holes, so it was impossible sometimes to get the safetys exactly where needed.

The house music makes a big difference for me as well. If it's just radio music that's kept down low enough to talk quietly over, that's fine.
When it's blasted hip hop or pop it ruins my mood lol.
Even blasted metal gets on my nerves in a short time, so it's more of a volume thing really for me.
I like metal up loud enough to hear the riffs, but not much louder while lifting except for an occasional great riff rush blast.


----------



## Murmel

^
This gym is pretty popular as far as I know. I only go during the morning hours (now that it's spring break nobody goes that time, which is nice). But during the afternoon I wouldn't be surprised if there are queues to the rack, bench and smith. There's only one of each.
I also have the habit of wandering around between sets  It's not that I want to show off or anything, I just do it.

One of the downs of living in a small town: Almost every gym has only 1 bench press station and 1 free barbell for squats/deads.


----------



## UnderTheSign

So I was checking up on deadlift form today after seeing a guy at the gym do 'em sort of weird and it seems he based his form off this vid:


I have no clue who Smitty Diesel is or what his credibility is like but what do you guys think of sliding the weight over your upper legs and knees? Wouldn't it thoroughly fuck up your knees sliding a couple of plates over them?


----------



## Infamous Impact

UnderTheSign said:


> So I was checking up on deadlift form today after seeing a guy at the gym do 'em sort of weird and it seems he based his form off this vid:
> 
> 
> I have no clue who Smitty Diesel is or what his credibility is like but what do you guys think of sliding the weight over your upper legs and knees? Wouldn't it thoroughly fuck up your knees sliding a couple of plates over them?



His form is perfect. You're putting too much pressure on your back if it's not scarping your legs.


----------



## UnderTheSign

edit: oops, double posted, browser didn't show this post for me...


----------



## UnderTheSign

Should've clarified I meant on the way down, not sure if my post made that clear. Was watching some vids on T-Nation and some seem to briefly touch/scrape the knee, others don't, could be me but not as pronounced as Smitty's vid. I might very well be wrong and have been doing it wrong all time, it just never occured to me.


----------



## wizbit81

Squat, Deadlift, Pullup, Chinup, Pressup, Lunge, Handstand Shoulder press.

Those are CORE and foundation of EVERYTHING. 

Rinse and repeat gentlemen!!!


----------



## Winspear

UnderTheSign said:


> Should've clarified I meant on the way down, not sure if my post made that clear. Was watching some vids on T-Nation and some seem to briefly touch/scrape the knee, others don't, could be me but not as pronounced as Smitty's vid. I might very well be wrong and have been doing it wrong all time, it just never occured to me.



I was under the impression up and down should be the same. Anyway, agreed his form is perfect. Yes the bar should be dragged up and down your legs. I have it in contact all the time from my shins to my thighs. Yes it bruises sometimes a little blood if wearing shorts but it's nothing to complain about and you soon toughen up. With thick jogging bottoms I shouldn't think it would hurt at all.


----------



## TankJon666

^ yep!

Building muscle hurts and nothing says building muscle like bad ass scars on your shins from deadlifting like a champ!


----------



## Tiger

Thats silly. If you scrape off flesh when exercising you must obviously be a champion. : / 

Not trying to be a dick but deadlifts are not squats. If you want to start that low and force contact with your legs the entire lift to suit your build, great, keep the bar aligned right and your golden but theres nothing wrong with not making contact either. Its going to naturally make contact above the knee. When you unload the weight, move your hips out first, put the thing down and be done with it, dont slide it down your legs.


----------



## the hittmann

Ive always been taught to keep the bar in contact with your shins all the way up. The further out the bar is from your body the more stress you put on your lower back and greater chance for injury. If your not bleeding your not deadlifting, lol, at least according to jay cutler.


----------



## Murmel

I do scrape the bar against my shins, only on the way up though. I still keep it close on the way down. My form is probably far from perfect as I've only deadlifted for like 5 months and I've never had it checked. But my back never hurts afterwards so I guess I'm not doing it completely wrong.

Also, I can't be the only one who fucking hates eating? I love the working out part, but eating...


----------



## Infamous Impact

Murmel said:


> Also, I can't be the only one who fucking hates eating? I love the working out part, but eating...


I hate that bloated feeling after eating a HUGE meal, but I eat anything I see anyways. I love eating, but I can't eat large meals. So I snack on anything I see.


----------



## TankJon666

the hittmann said:


> Ive always been taught to keep the bar in contact with your shins all the way up. The further out the bar is from your body the more stress you put on your lower back and greater chance for injury. If your not bleeding your not deadlifting, lol, at least according to jay cutler.



Same here.


----------



## wizbit81

Dudes.....you totally don't have to eat large meals. 6 small meals a day containing plenty of protein is all you need. If two of those are protein shakes, that's only 4 meals, not even large ones. I tend to overeat while on a workout program so I gain muscle but don't lose fat. If I ate properly I'd do both.


----------



## TankJon666

Tiger said:


> Thats silly. If you scrape off flesh when exercising you must obviously be a champion. : /
> 
> Not trying to be a dick but deadlifts are not squats. If you want to start that low and force contact with your legs the entire lift to suit your build, great, keep the bar aligned right and your golden but theres nothing wrong with not making contact either. Its going to naturally make contact above the knee. When you unload the weight, move your hips out first, put the thing down and be done with it, dont slide it down your legs.



Start that low? You should start a deadlift from the floor. This is how you do deadlifts... back straight, looking straight ahead, bar against shins, drive heels through the floor and drag the bar up your shins and lock out.

http://youtu.be/1qq1AAcNpa8


----------



## Murmel

wizbit81 said:


> Dudes.....you totally don't have to eat large meals. 6 small meals a day containing plenty of protein is all you need. If two of those are protein shakes, that's only 4 meals, not even large ones. I tend to overeat while on a workout program so I gain muscle but don't lose fat. If I ate properly I'd do both.


I just dislike eating in general. I get full very fast, but I'm still pulling through because I know that my hopes of getting ripped won't come if I don't eat


----------



## Winspear

Not scraping flesh haha just enough to do some light damage.

And Tank, Tiger knows how to DL  He uploaded a video recently with very good form. 

I hate eating too haha, just because I'm lazy and hate spending time not playing guitar


----------



## Murmel

After my back day I have a vertical bruise mark going up both my shins. It looks pretty weird


----------



## TankJon666

I love eating 

Eating to build muscle just isn't as fun though ...well it can be but I'm lazy in that regard. I cook all my weeks meals on the sunday and freeze them in takeaway containers. Its much easier to just do 21 portions of boiled chicken and brown rice than to do other stuff and that does me for 75% of my weekly meals.
The rest of my meals Ill make on the day. I use extra lean beef steak mince a lot. Also try to eat a few pigs livers a week. Not the best tasting but its cheap and packed with good stuff and I mix it with the beef mince to make meat balls and such like. 
Breakfast is oats, wholegrain toast, peanut butter, eggs, protein shake. Then a load of supps throughout the day ..multi vits, vit C, stinging nettle root, flax seed oil, cod liver oil, glucosamine, glutamine, BCAA's, creatine, CLA and that does me.


----------



## Tiger

TankJon666 said:


> Start that low? You should start a deadlift from the floor. This is how you do deadlifts... back straight, looking straight ahead, bar against shins, drive heels through the floor and drag the bar up your shins and lock out.
> 
> Mark Bell Deadlift Video // Bodybuilding.com \\ Believe Media - YouTube



LOL


----------



## Uncreative123

TankJon666 said:


> Start that low? You should start a deadlift from the floor. This is how you do deadlifts... back straight, looking straight ahead, bar against shins, drive heels through the floor and drag the bar up your shins and lock out.
> 
> Mark Bell Deadlift Video // Bodybuilding.com \\ Believe Media - YouTube





That's how you do sumo-deadlifts. 


You don't have to look straight ahead, in fact, anymore that's usually discouraged because it places unnecessary strain on your neck. Basically your neck should be inline with your spine like this:








When you finish you, you'd be looking straight ahead. The cocking your head back is just really unnecessary and this way allows for a more neutral spine. 

I drag the bar up my shins, but you don't have to. I usually try to wear jogging pants when I do DLs because it destroys my shins and I think it's pretty fucking disgusting and inconsiderate to bleed all over a bar that everyone else has to use and it probably never gets cleaned (since cleaning staff usually only clean the floors.)


----------



## TankJon666

Uncreative123 said:


> That's how you do sumo-deadlifts.
> 
> 
> You don't have to look straight ahead, in fact, anymore that's usually discouraged because it places unnecessary strain on your neck. Basically your neck should be inline with your spine like this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When you finish you, you'd be looking straight ahead. The cocking your head back is just really unnecessary and this way allows for a more neutral spine.
> 
> I drag the bar up my shins, but you don't have to. I usually try to wear jogging pants when I do DLs because it destroys my shins and I think it's pretty fucking disgusting and inconsiderate to bleed all over a bar that everyone else has to use and it probably never gets cleaned (since cleaning staff usually only clean the floors.)



Interesting. I used to do deadlifts like that but suffered lower back problems so the trainer at my gym told me to try the other way and I had no problems. Maybe due to a slightly lower starting stance I dunno.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

Those trap (hex) bar deadlifts are great as well. If done as shown in the picture they basically turn into a leg press and allow an extra 40 or 50 pounds if the hex-bar has extension handles that reduce the range slightly.
I've tried summo DL, but it never felt as good as regulars for me.

My style is what I like to call cannon ball style. 
approx 12" between feet (inside of foot to inside of other foot)
approx 18" between hands (inside to inside)
bar against shins
ass down underneath as much as possible
drive straight up and drag bar up legs without digging in
remember to pre-pull enough to flex the bar before pulling all out (this helps you stay tight throughout the pull and delivers better positioning and hence leverage)
I'm also a believer in keeping the head aligned with the torso instead of lookin up more.

It's also worth noting that a person's leg length to torso length ratio plays an important part in optimal positioning.


----------



## UnderTheSign

Funnily enough, while Smitty's technique is considered perfect, he advises to keep the bar a few inches away from your shins when you set up.

I know a few taller guys who prefer sumos because of their long legs.


----------



## Infamous Impact

UnderTheSign said:


> Funnily enough, while Smitty's technique is considered perfect, he advises to keep the bar a few inches away from your shins when you set up.


Focus on the part where he's saying to do it during SETUP. It lets you start lower, giving you more glute activation.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

Yeah that works fine, but you can also setup against the shins, then when you lower down and get ready to drive you can simply allow the shins to push the bar forward an inch or so.
This keeps the bar tight against the shins throughout.
Floor needs to be somewhat level for this, I've lifted places where the floors were choppy as hell and one side would always roll back or forward.
Either way is fine really.


----------



## TankJon666

TRENCHLORD said:


> Those trap (hex) bar deadlifts are great as well. If done as shown in the picture they basically turn into a leg press and allow an extra 40 or 50 pounds if the hex-bar has extension handles that reduce the range slightly.
> I've tried summo DL, but it never felt as good as regulars for me.
> 
> My style is what I like to call cannon ball style.
> approx 12" between feet (inside of foot to inside of other foot)
> approx 18" between hands (inside to inside)
> bar against shins
> ass down underneath as much as possible
> drive straight up and drag bar up legs without digging in
> remember to pre-pull enough to flex the bar before pulling all out (this helps you stay tight throughout the pull and delivers better positioning and hence leverage)
> I'm also a believer in keeping the head aligned with the torso instead of lookin up more.
> 
> It's also worth noting that a person's leg length to torso length ratio plays an important part in optimal positioning.



My legs are fairly short in comparison to my torso so that may go someway to explain why regular DL gives me lower back grief.


----------



## Ibanezsam4

So thanks to much of the deadlift talk going on here as of late, i was able to fix my technique and deadlift 235 pounds today, which is my heaviest weight thus far


----------



## eurolove

Any of you guys got any tips for getting more gains in the trapezius area? im talking about the front area on top of your shoulders. At the moment i am doing upright rows 3x10 on chest+triceps day. Then on shoulder day, cause i find i can hit em twice a week i have recently been doing cable shrugs 3x10, which is surprisingly good, i can get a nice squeeze. i drop the weight and burn set after the last set. what do you guys do for traps? i know some have monster traps genetically and dont even need hit them that much, im not that guy ha ha.


----------



## Infamous Impact

eurolove said:


> Any of you guys got any tips for getting more gains in the trapezius area? im talking about the front area on top of your shoulders. At the moment i am doing upright rows 3x10 on chest+triceps day. Then on shoulder day, cause i find i can hit em twice a week i have recently been doing cable shrugs 3x10, which is surprisingly good, i can get a nice squeeze. i drop the weight and burn set after the last set. what do you guys do for traps? i know some have monster traps genetically and dont even need hit them that much, im not that guy ha ha.


Hang Snatches and lots of overhead work. I love doing behind the neck presses. Klokov and his traps agree.
KLOKOV Dmitry RUS - YouTube


----------



## eurolove

Infamous Impact said:


> Hang Snatches and lots of overhead work. I love doing behind the neck presses. Klokov and his traps agree.
> KLOKOV Dmitry RUS - YouTube



Thanks for the suggestion, the form looks damn complicated though, i am used to the whole 2 seconds up 2 seconds down kinda thing (I dont tend to do powerlifting excercises) so i think im gonna need to practice these with reaally light weight. I've been wanting to incorporate some power lifting exercises for a while I'm always intimidated by the dangers though.


----------



## Infamous Impact

eurolove said:


> Thanks for the suggestion, the form looks damn complicated though, i am used to the whole 2 seconds up 2 seconds down kinda thing (I dont tend to do powerlifting excercises) so i think im gonna need to practice these with reaally light weight. I've been wanting to incorporate some power lifting exercises for a while I'm always intimidated by the dangers though.


The snatch and clean and jerk are not powerlifting movements. They're the Olympic Weightlifting lifts. It's mostly about form and neurological adaptation with them. You'll want to do tons of form work with a broom. And watch California Strength videos. They've helped me so much. I have a 82kg CnJ and 72kg Snatch at 67kg in less than 2 months from watching them obsessively, along with having a decent Olympic routine. Those two lifts alone have been making my sprint times fall down at an insane pace. My shoulders are looking really nice too. Everyone around me gets discouraged when I have my singlet on.


----------



## TankJon666

eurolove said:


> Any of you guys got any tips for getting more gains in the trapezius area? im talking about the front area on top of your shoulders. At the moment i am doing upright rows 3x10 on chest+triceps day. Then on shoulder day, cause i find i can hit em twice a week i have recently been doing cable shrugs 3x10, which is surprisingly good, i can get a nice squeeze. i drop the weight and burn set after the last set. what do you guys do for traps? i know some have monster traps genetically and dont even need hit them that much, im not that guy ha ha.



I do traps on shoulder day! 

Personally I would avoid doing shoulders on a chest day due to the fact that doing chest you have already put a fair amount of strain through your front delts. I also don't do upright rows or behind the neck stuff due to the fact those movements are commonly linked to shoulder/rotator cuff issues.

Anyway, for traps I do behind the back barbell shrugs with a good squeeze at the top, usually on my back day as most of the trapazius is in your back! I also find doing a superset of dumbell shrugs with seated side laterals are good.

My usual shoulder workout is 

Seated press 3 x 8, seated side lats 3 x 10-12, Front raises 3 x 10, dumbell shrugs 3 x 10-12 and finish on 3 x 15 of lightish behind the back cable side laterals.

And like I said. On back days I do behind the back barbell shrugs.


----------



## Infamous Impact

This is now a Klokov worship thread.


Him and Akkaev are going to make London so intense. Russia has 105kg loaded.


----------



## Tiger

My new power rack, first time using it. Set 3 of a 4x9. Im pretty stoked to not have to ever go to a gym again.


----------



## Infamous Impact

Tiger said:


> My new power rack, first time using it. Set 3 of a 4x9. Im pretty stoked to not have to ever go to a gym again.



I'm saving up for a sweet lifting setup. Squat rack, bench, Olympic platform, bumper plates, rack, etc. The bad thing is, half of it will be just for bumper plates. 
I'm going for it though. I'll hopefully get it by the time I graduate.


----------



## UnderTheSign

Looks sweet Tiger!


----------



## Tiger

Its already changing how I train. I can warm up on my spin bike, workout 20 minutes on a particular life, then go do a chore around the house. I like being able to train right when I get the urge, and its going to be extra nice to have it once the baby is here so I can fit it in whenever.

Plus I really, REALLY hate gyms.


----------



## Murmel

Could somebody enlighten me on this exercise? I mean, other than using it to destroy your neck


----------



## Infamous Impact

Murmel said:


> Could somebody enlighten me on this exercise? I mean, other than using it to destroy your neck



I think that's it. The only reason you'd need to train your neck specifically is if you're in a combat sport with wrestling moves, like wrestling, obviously. In which case, you do the Wrestler's Bridge. It works itself out pretty well.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

Just sleeping is enough screw with my neck sometimes lol. I hate to think what that thing would do to it.


----------



## Infamous Impact

TRENCHLORD said:


> Just sleeping is enough screw with my neck sometimes lol. I hate to think what that thing would do to it.


Then this will give you nightmares 
Honestly I love doing tons of bridge work before and after doing overhead work and back days. Doing it before high jumping usually gives me 2 extra inches on all my jumps. A warmed up spine is tons more flexible.


----------



## Bevo

Hey guys I am looking for a 4 day a week program to add some upper body muscle and some leg strength.

Because I run I have to find a way to balance the workouts so I can still run the next day.
Part 2 of this will be trying to get enough protein and food in to build the muscles and fuel the runs.

Right now I have been doing compound exercises to get the muscles ready for heavy weights and have to say I am damn weak!!!
Its amazing how much long distance running catobolizes (sp) your body!

If this routine can be done at home with free weights and an exercise ball it would be best.

Thanks!


----------



## eurolove

TankJon666 said:


> I do traps on shoulder day!
> 
> Personally I would avoid doing shoulders on a chest day due to the fact that doing chest you have already put a fair amount of strain through your front delts. I also don't do upright rows or behind the neck stuff due to the fact those movements are commonly linked to shoulder/rotator cuff issues.
> 
> Anyway, for traps I do behind the back barbell shrugs with a good squeeze at the top, usually on my back day as most of the trapazius is in your back! I also find doing a superset of dumbell shrugs with seated side laterals are good.
> 
> My usual shoulder workout is
> 
> Seated press 3 x 8, seated side lats 3 x 10-12, Front raises 3 x 10, dumbell shrugs 3 x 10-12 and finish on 3 x 15 of lightish behind the back cable side laterals.
> 
> And like I said. On back days I do behind the back barbell shrugs.



i don't do shoulders on chest day just top of traps, which i hit again on shoulder day because they recover quickly. funnily enough i have the same fear of behind the back barbell shrugs for the whole rotator cuff issue thing, ill take it they are safe then?


----------



## Tiger

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDDyxXyf6UU


Do you even lift?


----------



## kung_fu

^^
wow! This pushed me down the youtube rabbit-hole. I've been watching CrossFit fail vids for the past 20 minutes.


----------



## UnderTheSign

I never know what to expect when watching crossfit vids... It's too bad they took down the "Chris Spealer does 106 pull ups". You could hear his shoulders crackling at every move he made.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

Tiger said:


>




These goof balls must have been absent when inner ears were handed out. There isn't a lick of left/right balance between all of them (let alone the hidious form). 
I like the way that blond cocks her hips though. And at :56 when she says "now jerk it".


----------



## Infamous Impact

Bevo said:


> Hey guys I am looking for a 4 day a week program to add some upper body muscle and some leg strength.
> 
> Because I run I have to find a way to balance the workouts so I can still run the next day.
> Part 2 of this will be trying to get enough protein and food in to build the muscles and fuel the runs.
> 
> Right now I have been doing compound exercises to get the muscles ready for heavy weights and have to say I am damn weak!!!
> Its amazing how much long distance running catobolizes (sp) your body!
> 
> If this routine can be done at home with free weights and an exercise ball it would be best.
> 
> Thanks!


Triple your caloric intake, god knows you need it, you weigh more than me and are taller than me yet I eat that much more. Get on a novice strength program.


----------



## Rook

Hey guys, I have a couple of questions.

First, it's worth knowing I'm pretty casual and haven't taken any serious interest in this until very recently. I've been going to the gym for a long time but just casually lifting stuff up on odd days more than building, I've mostly just been doing cardio (running and rowing) to this point.

A few months ago I started lifting, again lacking focus really but more than previously, and I've decided I'm going to stick to compound exercises until I've gained a decent amount of strength.

I have a workout put together, which I'll write out in a minute, but it consists on Chin Ups, Bench Presses, Squats, Deads and Bicep Curls, I've also added Dips. I have a couple of questions because I don't necessarily feel I'm getting the most out of it right now and think there are some rather important gaps in my knowledge...

Regardless of days etc, for pretty much all the previous exercises the routine is 3 sets, first two of 5 and the last til failure (or nearly, more on that later).

I can't lift my own weight. Here are some stats:
Height 6'2
Weight 190lbs, about 87kg
1R Max Bar Bench ~ 55kg
1R Max DL ~ 80kg
1R Max Squat ~ 70kg
1R Max Bicep Curl ~ 35-40kg

I can just about scrape 1 chin up, barely, I use the weight assisted chin up machine to do 3 sets of 5 with 20k on (so I'm doing chins as if I weighed 67kg).

I couldn't tell you my % body fat but I'm not fat  the softest parts of me have about 1/4" of fat on em (fattiest part of my belly).

Ok onto the questions!
1) I recover from this sort of stuff quite quickly. Later in the day I'll feel like I've done exercise, particularly in the bigger muscles, but my chest and triceps for example feel fine, I can't help but feel I'm not doing enough. Should I be 'working up' before doing my 2x5, 1x5+ routine? How do I do this? I literally couldn't do another press earlier (dumbbell) but my chest n tri's now don't feel all that tired if at all! Am I just doing it wrong?
2) I've heard that working til absolute failure and feeling wrecked for 2 days or whatever isn't optimal, and working almost til failure but not doing those last few but all with good form is better for strength (not going for size here haha). I obviously rest for at least 2 days between workouts, maybe with some cardio in between. Is this right or should I be forcing a last rep or two/using a higher weight?
3) How can I improve my chin ups! I suck at them and it's one of the more important things to me. Is working with reduced weight working against me? Am i better off doing one unassisted chin every now and again rather than lots of lighter ones? Again I've heard that working til failure on chin-ups actually does nothing, any truth in that? 
4) As 3) but for dips 

As for the workout itself, it's 3 days a week (mon, wed, fri), Press every session, squat dead squat split, chins every session, curl weighted chin (which I can't do ) curl split. I've also been doing bent over rows 2 or 3 times a week.

Cheers guys, any improvement would be awesome, I can't help but feel I can get more out of this!


----------



## Marv Attaxx

This is my home-gym


----------



## Tiger

^ How I miss hardwood floors 



Fun111 said:


> Cheers guys, any improvement would be awesome, I can't help but feel I can get more out of this!



Hey buddy, maybe try this. I love the smolov routine for squats, and I put in my max for bench into this calculator and started doing that routine for benching and other supplementary exercises. Try it out and see if it taxes you better, it should:

Powerlifting Heads-Up


----------



## Infamous Impact

Fun111 said:


> Hey guys, I have a couple of questions.
> 
> First, it's worth knowing I'm pretty casual and haven't taken any serious interest in this until very recently. I've been going to the gym for a long time but just casually lifting stuff up on odd days more than building, I've mostly just been doing cardio (running and rowing) to this point.
> 
> A few months ago I started lifting, again lacking focus really but more than previously, and I've decided I'm going to stick to compound exercises until I've gained a decent amount of strength.
> 
> I have a workout put together, which I'll write out in a minute, but it consists on Chin Ups, Bench Presses, Squats, Deads and Bicep Curls, I've also added Dips. I have a couple of questions because I don't necessarily feel I'm getting the most out of it right now and think there are some rather important gaps in my knowledge...
> 
> Regardless of days etc, for pretty much all the previous exercises the routine is 3 sets, first two of 5 and the last til failure (or nearly, more on that later).
> 
> I can't lift my own weight. Here are some stats:
> Height 6'2
> Weight 190lbs, about 87kg
> 1R Max Bar Bench ~ 55kg
> 1R Max DL ~ 80kg
> 1R Max Squat ~ 70kg
> 1R Max Bicep Curl ~ 35-40kg
> 
> I can just about scrape 1 chin up, barely, I use the weight assisted chin up machine to do 3 sets of 5 with 20k on (so I'm doing chins as if I weighed 67kg).
> 
> I couldn't tell you my % body fat but I'm not fat  the softest parts of me have about 1/4" of fat on em (fattiest part of my belly).
> 
> Ok onto the questions!
> 1) I recover from this sort of stuff quite quickly. Later in the day I'll feel like I've done exercise, particularly in the bigger muscles, but my chest and triceps for example feel fine, I can't help but feel I'm not doing enough. Should I be 'working up' before doing my 2x5, 1x5+ routine? How do I do this? I literally couldn't do another press earlier (dumbbell) but my chest n tri's now don't feel all that tired if at all! Am I just doing it wrong?
> 2) I've heard that working til absolute failure and feeling wrecked for 2 days or whatever isn't optimal, and working almost til failure but not doing those last few but all with good form is better for strength (not going for size here haha). I obviously rest for at least 2 days between workouts, maybe with some cardio in between. Is this right or should I be forcing a last rep or two/using a higher weight?
> 3) How can I improve my chin ups! I suck at them and it's one of the more important things to me. Is working with reduced weight working against me? Am i better off doing one unassisted chin every now and again rather than lots of lighter ones? Again I've heard that working til failure on chin-ups actually does nothing, any truth in that?
> 4) As 3) but for dips
> 
> As for the workout itself, it's 3 days a week (mon, wed, fri), Press every session, squat dead squat split, chins every session, curl weighted chin (which I can't do ) curl split. I've also been doing bent over rows 2 or 3 times a week.
> 
> Cheers guys, any improvement would be awesome, I can't help but feel I can get more out of this!


Starting Strength.


----------



## Ibanezsam4

Fun111 said:


> 3) How can I improve my chin ups! I suck at them and it's one of the more important things to me. Is working with reduced weight working against me? Am i better off doing one unassisted chin every now and again rather than lots of lighter ones? Again I've heard that working til failure on chin-ups actually does nothing, any truth in that?



you said you have it assisted at 20kg? next time you go in reduce by 5kg and stay at that weight for two weeks, then decrease that weight again by another 5. pretty soon you'll be doing body weight for multiple sets. i had to do the same thing with my pullups/chinups 




Fun111 said:


> 4) As 3) but for dips



same story as above my friend


----------



## Murmel

I'm gonna continue with the pull-up question: How the hell do I get better at them? I've been stuck at 5-7 reps for what seems like forever now. I don't do til' failure on my first set, but on my second set I can only bust out 3 reps, 4 if I'm lucky.
Using an assist is not an option as my gym doesn't have a pull-up machine.

ALL of my other lifts are increasing without any problems except for pull-ups.
Yes, I eat like crazy already.

For some reason I neglected biceps for like 5 months of training because I thought I would look like a tool in the gym, which was a retarded decision. Perhaps that plays a factor.


----------



## Infamous Impact

Murmel said:


> For some reason I neglected biceps for like 5 months of training because I thought I would look like a tool in the gym, which was a retarded decision. Perhaps that plays a factor.


Do weighted chin-ups, you'll get huge biceps and not look like a tool. Win-win situation.


----------



## Murmel

I'll have to replace pull-ups with chins then, because there is no way I'm gonna be able to do both on the same day. 

I first do DL's then pull-ups on back days, I'm so exhausted afterwards because they are 2 big lifts.


----------



## UnderTheSign

Fun111 said:


> Hey guys, I have a couple of questions.
> 
> First, it's worth knowing I'm pretty casual and haven't taken any serious interest in this until very recently. I've been going to the gym for a long time but just casually lifting stuff up on odd days more than building, I've mostly just been doing cardio (running and rowing) to this point.
> 
> A few months ago I started lifting, again lacking focus really but more than previously, and I've decided I'm going to stick to compound exercises until I've gained a decent amount of strength.
> 
> I have a workout put together, which I'll write out in a minute, but it consists on Chin Ups, Bench Presses, Squats, Deads and Bicep Curls, I've also added Dips. I have a couple of questions because I don't necessarily feel I'm getting the most out of it right now and think there are some rather important gaps in my knowledge...
> 
> Regardless of days etc, for pretty much all the previous exercises the routine is 3 sets, first two of 5 and the last til failure (or nearly, more on that later).
> 
> I can't lift my own weight. Here are some stats:
> Height 6'2
> Weight 190lbs, about 87kg
> 1R Max Bar Bench ~ 55kg
> 1R Max DL ~ 80kg
> 1R Max Squat ~ 70kg
> 1R Max Bicep Curl ~ 35-40kg
> 
> I can just about scrape 1 chin up, barely, I use the weight assisted chin up machine to do 3 sets of 5 with 20k on (so I'm doing chins as if I weighed 67kg).
> 
> I couldn't tell you my % body fat but I'm not fat  the softest parts of me have about 1/4" of fat on em (fattiest part of my belly).
> 
> Ok onto the questions!
> 1) I recover from this sort of stuff quite quickly. Later in the day I'll feel like I've done exercise, particularly in the bigger muscles, but my chest and triceps for example feel fine, I can't help but feel I'm not doing enough. Should I be 'working up' before doing my 2x5, 1x5+ routine? How do I do this? I literally couldn't do another press earlier (dumbbell) but my chest n tri's now don't feel all that tired if at all! Am I just doing it wrong?
> 2) I've heard that working til absolute failure and feeling wrecked for 2 days or whatever isn't optimal, and working almost til failure but not doing those last few but all with good form is better for strength (not going for size here haha). I obviously rest for at least 2 days between workouts, maybe with some cardio in between. Is this right or should I be forcing a last rep or two/using a higher weight?
> 3) How can I improve my chin ups! I suck at them and it's one of the more important things to me. Is working with reduced weight working against me? Am i better off doing one unassisted chin every now and again rather than lots of lighter ones? Again I've heard that working til failure on chin-ups actually does nothing, any truth in that?
> 4) As 3) but for dips
> 
> As for the workout itself, it's 3 days a week (mon, wed, fri), Press every session, squat dead squat split, chins every session, curl weighted chin (which I can't do ) curl split. I've also been doing bent over rows 2 or 3 times a week.
> 
> Cheers guys, any improvement would be awesome, I can't help but feel I can get more out of this!


What do you do to work your shoulders?


----------



## Infamous Impact

Murmel said:


> I'll have to replace pull-ups with chins then, because there is no way I'm gonna be able to do both on the same day.
> 
> I first do DL's then pull-ups on back days, I'm so exhausted afterwards because they are 2 big lifts.


Try switching between between each every back day.


----------



## Rook

'Starting strength'? 

Thanks Ibanezsam4 I'll try that 

Cheers tiger, I'll give that a look 

As for my shoulders, I was under the impression the DL's give the traps something to think about, dumbbell benching the front delts and bent over rows rear delts, should I consider doing something more shouldery? Standing rows or something?


----------



## Infamous Impact

Fun111 said:


> 'Starting strength'?


It's the novice program I recommend you do to build a decent base of strength before going onto bodybuilding, or whatever you want to do. Your lifts are still at novice, you can at least double them in decent time with a good program.


----------



## Murmel

Pulled 209lbs today on my deadlift (95kg).
I did it for my final set, and for some reason I thought it was a good idea to push out 1 more rep when I was completely done for it. With the shittiest form ever, I managed to snap my hip in some weird fashion and that shot a jet of pain in my lower back and down my left leg.

It's pretty fine now though, but I'm probably gonna skip squats if it's not over by friday. There's a fine line between pushing and hurting yourself.

I dedicated this workout to destroy my biceps instead, since I pretty much couldn't do anything that involved the back.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

Murmel said:


> Pulled 209lbs today on my deadlift (95kg).
> I did it for my final set, and for some reason I thought it was a good idea to push out 1 more rep when I was completely done for it. With the shittiest form ever, I managed to snap my hip in some weird fashion and that shot a jet of pain in my lower back and down my left leg.
> 
> It's pretty fine now though, but I'm probably gonna skip squats if it's not over by friday. There's a fine line between pushing and hurting yourself.
> 
> I dedicated this workout to destroy my biceps instead, since I pretty much couldn't do anything that involved the back.


 
Can be dangerous 4sure.
I know most people want to go near max on deadlifts when they do them, 
but I've done better avoiding lower back problems by alternating between medium/high rep deadlift sessions and consecutive singles workouts.

In both cases, I will go up to the weight at which I would perform the consecutive singles workout (95-98% of a good form max weight).

Then on medium or high rep day, I will only do one rep of my consecutive singles workout weight (after taking about 30min to warmup and pyramid up in weight), then after pulling that 96ish%max weight I will strip off a pair of either 25pound plates or 45pound plates (depending of course how it's feeling at that point and what rep range I'm shooting for) and then just rep out until I can't hold safe form anymore.
When I pull 50-90pounds off the bar it just feels so light in comparison to the way that same weight felt when I was pyramiding up during warmup.

Then for the consecutive singles workout I just ladder up to the 95-98%max weight and knock out as many sets of 1rep as possible with safe form, taking only 90-120 seconds rest between sets.
If you can safely get more than 7 sets of 1 rep within a 10-15min. window then use 10-15 pounds more the next time you do CS workout.
After raising the weight up on the next CS workout I might only get 3 or 4 sets of 1 rep.

Make sure you are hitting some specific lower ab stamina and strength excersises to act as a natural belt.


----------



## Tiger

More vids. This high speed camera thing has helped me fix so much shit so far I was doing wrong, I suggest it for everyone.

http://youtu.be/GfiHs5bD3CU

Always doing things after long run days.

Started working on this since the olympics are upon us, if I would have known this was as much fun as it is Id have been doing it long ago.

Learning clean and jerk - YouTube

Why doesnt it embed youtube anymore...?


----------



## Marv Attaxx

I suck so hard at the bench press 
Curse my long arms!
Anyone got some advice for (really) long arms and benching?
My ROM just kills me 

(the max I bench atm is 80 to 90kg. my deadlift is >180... my weight is around 83 kg, height 1.76m)


----------



## Infamous Impact

Tiger said:


> More vids. This high speed camera thing has helped me fix so much shit so far I was doing wrong, I suggest it for everyone.
> 
> 235 7x5 smolov day - YouTube
> 
> Always doing things after long run days.
> 
> Started working on this since the olympics are upon us, if I would have known this was as much fun as it is Id have been doing it long ago.
> 
> Learning clean and jerk - YouTube
> 
> Why doesnt it embed youtube anymore...?


Your squat form is great. You C&J on the other hand... needs a lot of work. 
I'll start from the bottom. The first pull itself needs to be right on your body like a deadlift. It seems like only your hands made contact with the bar. Without having your body connected to the bar, you're losing a ton of power for the second pull.
The second pull should start at mid-thigh. I personally hit it from a little higher, because I get more power from that. But you literally need to hump the bar as hard as possible to get your lower body to be as powerful as possible. During the second pull you feel the triple extension happen. You use so much force to move the bar your ankles, knees, and hips lockout. That's why you see people jumping with the bar if the weight is light enough.
Next is when the bar is in the air. This is why you end up in a squat if the weight is heavy enough to be more than a power clean. When the bar is in the air, your need to catch yourself under the bar. That's why you bend you knees to get under it.
Now comes the racking part. I cringed when I saw how your were racking the bar. You need to keep your elbows up high and your wrists will be feeling a deep stretch too. If needed, widen your grip on the bar to outside your shoulders. The bar lands and rests on your clavicles and deltoids after racking the clean. This is why you keep your elbows up. You don't support it with your arms, you support the bar with your shoulders. Also, keeping your elbows up means you don't snap your wrists from touching your knees with your elbows.
I'm not too knowledgeable about the jerk, it comes naturally to me. I also don't split jerk, I go into a full squat jerk and locking out basically is an overhead squat with different grip.

Watch some videos on the O Lifts. California Strength, Glenn Pendlay, MDUSA, any Russian in 105kg, all have great form and taught me tons.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

This is a fairly comprehensive video on the olympic lifts.
Learning & Teaching the Snatch and Clean & Jerk. - YouTube


----------



## Fiction

Marv Attaxx said:


> Anyone got some advice for (really) long arms)



Walk around all day with your arms straight up in the air, and over time gravity should compress them back to normal size.

Good luck


----------



## TRENCHLORD

Marv Attaxx said:


> I suck so hard at the bench press
> Curse my long arms!
> Anyone got some advice for (really) long arms and benching?
> My ROM just kills me
> 
> (the max I bench atm is 80 to 90kg. my deadlift is >180... my weight is around 83 kg, height 1.76m)


 
A great way to work through that is to do some seperate sets (not more than a couple) working from your sticking point (about halfway up for most) up.

Unless you have a trustable spotter or can bench inside a power rack or on a smith machine this will be difficult because in order to continue progressing (or resume progressing) you'll need to work through/past failure in some manner or another (drop sets and forced reps are a great option).

Even shorter guys like myself tend to have that same point where the bar wants to stop on that last rep or on a max attempt.
By isolating that spot and hitting it without the burden of the full range of motion you will be able to stress those shoulder and triceps (which are ussually the culprit) more completely and you might even try using your max +10 or 20 pounds and only lowering to barely below that sticking point.

If the bar is stopping just off your chest then just work the bottom half.
Lower the ber all the way down, pause, then blast it halfway up, stop, pause, lower, repeat.

These are just things to throw in, not to replace full range.
One idea might be to warmup and ladder up, then hit a full range set to failure followed by a set of lower halfs then a set of upper halfs with a few forced reps (if spotter is good).


----------



## Marv Attaxx

The stuff I usually do is dropsets (3 sets) or 5x5. I work out alone most of the time, so no spotter 
Just recently I added drumb bells again, feels good so far 
I'd love to try stuff like negative reps but like i said: no spotter


----------



## Harry

Murmel said:


> I'm gonna continue with the pull-up question: How the hell do I get better at them? I've been stuck at 5-7 reps for what seems like forever now. I don't do til' failure on my first set, but on my second set I can only bust out 3 reps, 4 if I'm lucky.
> Using an assist is not an option as my gym doesn't have a pull-up machine.
> 
> ALL of my other lifts are increasing without any problems except for pull-ups.
> Yes, I eat like crazy already.
> 
> For some reason I neglected biceps for like 5 months of training because I thought I would look like a tool in the gym, which was a retarded decision. Perhaps that plays a factor.



Perhaps do them more often, but always keep a little bit left in the tank.
Going to failure tends to be pretty counter productive to getting more reps out over time



Murmel said:


> I'll have to replace pull-ups with chins then, because there is no way I'm gonna be able to do both on the same day.
> 
> I first do DL's then pull-ups on back days, I'm so exhausted afterwards because they are 2 big lifts.



If you can manage reasonable volume, no reason why pullups and chinups can't be done on the same day.




Tiger said:


> More vids. This high speed camera thing has helped me fix so much shit so far I was doing wrong, I suggest it for everyone.
> 
> 235 7x5 smolov day - YouTube
> 
> Always doing things after long run days.
> 
> Started working on this since the olympics are upon us, if I would have known this was as much fun as it is Id have been doing it long ago.
> 
> Learning clean and jerk - YouTube
> 
> Why doesnt it embed youtube anymore...?



Time to get some oly lifting shoes me thinks.
If you're gonna be squatting ATG, oly shoes are easily the best way to go and should easily be able to get rid of your butt wink


----------



## Murmel

Harry said:


> If you can manage reasonable volume, no reason why pullups and chinups can't be done on the same day.


The only reason I don't want to do them on the same day is that pull-ups literally make me want to throw up because they require so much effort. I tried chins instead last week though, it's not as hard.

I could always give it a shot and try both on the same day. I'm just so afraid to get that really bad sick to the stomach feeling that I got once. It was on lower day, I did upper/lower splits at the time.
I retreated back to the locker room and sat down in the bathroom for like 15 minutes. Then when it was over, I went back and finished the workout.


----------



## Tiger

My new weightlifting partner.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

Stats man. haha
We want age, breed, price/aqusition info lol.

edit; definetly cute enough


----------



## Tiger

8 Weeks Tamaskan, expensive from puppies by Ratliff but well worth it, new best friend.


----------



## Fiction

Looks like you're doing a great job spotting there


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Hopefully it embeds. 
Anyways, so this is me deadlifting 450 with the straight bar. Idk why the hell it's sideways. 
45lb bar, 4x45lb plates each side. 5lb bumper plates. 10lb plates,5lb, and 2.5lb
I had just finished up a 3x3 on squats and deadlifts at lighter weights because i have a game tomorrow, and a friend did 385 and started getting really cocky. He called me a pussy because i was doing lighter weights, so i did this. 
16 years old 6'1" 194lbs


----------



## Infamous Impact

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> Hopefully it embeds.
> Anyways, so this is me deadlifting 450 with the straight bar. Idk why the hell it's sideways.
> 45lb bar, 4x45lb plates each side. 5lb bumper plates. 10lb plates,5lb, and 2.5lb
> I had just finished up a 3x3 on squats and deadlifts at lighter weights because i have a game tomorrow, and a friend did 385 and started getting really cocky. He called me a pussy because i was doing lighter weights, so i did this.
> 16 years old 6'1" 194lbs



Starting to get to the bar bending weights!


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Thanks man


----------



## Aevolve

New arm workout has been excellent- so I thought I'd share with you guys if you want to try it out. It's for biceps & triceps, and is apparently modeled after what Arnie used to do back in the day.

Supersets in red

*Biceps*
- 5x6 (last set 10 reps) Wide-Grip Standing Curls
- 5x6 (last set 10 reps) Wide-Grip Incline Curls
- 5x10 Preacher Curls
- 5x10 Reverse-Grip Preacher Curls

*Triceps*
- 5x6 (last set 10 reps) Close-Grip Bench
- 5x6 (last set 10 reps) Incline Skullcrushers
- 5x6 Pulldowns with Rope Grip
- 5x6 Regular-Grip Pushdowns
- 5x6 Reverse-Grip Pushdowns

It's torn my arms up pretty well. Maybe some of you might like it!


----------



## Guamskyy

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> Hopefully it embeds.
> Anyways, so this is me deadlifting 450 with the straight bar. Idk why the hell it's sideways.
> 45lb bar, 4x45lb plates each side. 5lb bumper plates. 10lb plates,5lb, and 2.5lb
> I had just finished up a 3x3 on squats and deadlifts at lighter weights because i have a game tomorrow, and a friend did 385 and started getting really cocky. He called me a pussy because i was doing lighter weights, so i did this.
> 16 years old 6'1" 194lbs




BAU5


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> Hopefully it embeds.
> Anyways, so this is me deadlifting 450 with the straight bar. Idk why the hell it's sideways.
> 45lb bar, 4x45lb plates each side. 5lb bumper plates. 10lb plates,5lb, and 2.5lb
> I had just finished up a 3x3 on squats and deadlifts at lighter weights because i have a game tomorrow, and a friend did 385 and started getting really cocky. He called me a pussy because i was doing lighter weights, so i did this.
> 16 years old 6'1" 194lbs





Badass brah!


----------



## Tiger

Good day, got 390lb up and dropped down to 141lbs for the first time. Starting to really notice the effects of cutting this low, looking good. 8)


----------



## Murmel

Always feels awesome when you have a great leg workout in the morning but don't have time to eat properly the whole day.. 
Won't be able to do so good tomorrow either.


----------



## Marv Attaxx

^ I can't walk after the workout so I alway do it in the evening 
I've just tried the Arnold Press for the first time: holy crap!
I feel muscles I've never felt before 
I urge everyone to try it


----------



## Winspear

^ Such a good exercise!
On that..actually - what's the best way to do it? One motion twist on the way up, or a 2 part motion being: Lower dumbells to 90 degree press, and then bring them in like a pec machine, keeping your elbows up 90 degrees all the way.

I do the second and it's a hell of a lot harder at least.


----------



## bob123

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> 16 years old 6'1" 194lbs




dude, impressive weight for your age, but damnit watch your form and wear a stabilizer belt when you start lifting serious weights like that.


I completely wrecked my back a few years ago, and I was in physical therapy for about a year and half before I finally "felt better".


----------



## TRENCHLORD

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> Hopefully it embeds.
> Anyways, so this is me deadlifting 450 with the straight bar. Idk why the hell it's sideways.
> 45lb bar, 4x45lb plates each side. 5lb bumper plates. 10lb plates,5lb, and 2.5lb
> I had just finished up a 3x3 on squats and deadlifts at lighter weights because i have a game tomorrow, and a friend did 385 and started getting really cocky. He called me a pussy because i was doing lighter weights, so i did this.
> 16 years old 6'1" 194lbs


 
How high you got that bar jacked up?

That looks like quite a few mats under each side.
I was using 3/4" horse mat under the plates when I was lifting at the gym. 
Doesn't sound like much (and it's of course not much difference anyway on max attempts), but it sure makes a big difference for repping out (which is how i used them).
Great lift man!!!


----------



## niffnoff

Damn I feel bad for not looking into my own thread for a while 

I've moved up a little since I originally posted.


Atm looking at sets of 

4 sets of 8 at 50 lbs

4 sets of 6 at 60

4 sets of 6 at 70

then 4 sets of 90 lbs .


Also got introduced to this killer skullcrusher for the triceps my friend shown me, damn...


----------



## Bevo

Going on my third week now and the weight I can move has pretty much tripled, not talking big weight at all.
Its amazing how much muscle I lost running!

I found some whey protein that works for me which was a huge help, this and backing way off the running has gained me 6 pounds of muscle!
Not huge but started pretty small..


----------



## Guamskyy

Bevo said:


> Going on my third week now and the weight I can move has pretty much tripled, not talking big weight at all.
> Its amazing how much muscle I lost running!
> 
> I found some whey protein that works for me which was a huge help, this and backing way off the running has gained me 6 pounds of muscle!
> Not huge but started pretty small..



 Yeah, my coworker is in the same situation you're in, just that he hasn't realized to change. He said he wants to bulk up and said he runs 5+ miles a day. I gave him a  and said "maybe stop running so much?" Not doing cardio but lifting weights can bulk you up, but you don't want to be super swolle and than have a poor mile time, gotta find that balance!


----------



## Bevo

My running has been minimal with some injuries so its giving me a head start. That and also eating lots more has helped, it actually makes me hungrier?

One thing that I don't know if its right is the amount of sore muscles a few days after the workout. If I was running I would go but to push heavy I am not sure.
If your in sore say 3 out of 10, 10 being unable to move 5 being it feels good but day off..would you work out that muscle again?

Also, if you work out and are not sore even a bit like "0" should you push more weight?

Thanks!


----------



## Winspear

Soreness will very and depend if you stretch or not. I don't feel much soreness except my legs and back (squats and deadlifts). I stretch legs afterwards otherwise I absolutely cannot walk for a few days. I work all the muscles equally hard. Just seems the ones that take the heaviest weights will be more sore. 
I would not pay attention to it or use it to judge whether you should lift more weight.
You should lift enough weight to get your goal reps and no more with perfect form - simple.


----------



## Murmel

Been working at a local festival the entire week, shitty sleep and and even worse eating. Will be getting back to working out this week. Thinking about throwing in a dedicated arm day so I work them twice a week.


----------



## UnderTheSign

Murmel said:


> Been working at a local festival the entire week, shitty sleep and and even worse eating. Will be getting back to working out this week. Thinking about throwing in a dedicated arm day so I work them twice a week.


Why would you? Your arms get a lot of indirect hits from most of the other stuff you do too, remember that.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

UnderTheSign said:


> Why would you? Your arms get a lot of indirect hits from most of the other stuff you do too, remember that.


 
Some people do seem to be effected less by overlap than others.
I've always had an easy time getting DOMS (delayed onset muscle soreness) so overlap effects me very negatively.

Some weeks could be used more for the smaller detail excersises (like curls, pushdowns, lateral raises, ect.,
and other weeks could be more big lift focused (like grouping into pulls, legs, and pushes) with no arm day at all and very little isolation movements.


----------



## Murmel

UnderTheSign said:


> Why would you? Your arms get a lot of indirect hits from most of the other stuff you do too, remember that.



I seem to get very little development in my arms, so I figure I could at least give it a shot. I don't really have anything to lose.


----------



## Bevo

Any other options for the deadlift?
My gym is super busy in the free weights when I go..

Thanks


----------



## Infamous Impact

Bevo said:


> Any other options for the deadlift?
> My gym is super busy in the free weights when I go..
> 
> Thanks


The deadlift is any of the best ways to develop the posterior chain and I recommend you do that or Olympic lifts when you can, but if you don't have access to free weights, glute-ham raises and back hyperextensions are great too.


----------



## Tiger

5x7 Smolov day, two more of these before I go for the 4 plate deadlift. First squat day Ive had in a long day where I was really feeling it, it was rough.


----------



## Winspear

Nice one! 
Still slowly losing weight. My waist is tiny now! Noticing some good definition but am feeling desperate to build more muscle now at this small size...
Think I'm going to throw on another 200 calories and start supplementing with some CEE.


----------



## Murmel

My right arm is like an inch smaller than my left, if not more. It's looks really puny compared to the left, both flexed and unflexed.
There's not a huge difference in strength, it used to be much worse, now it's not really noticable. The triceps look a bit different too, the right is more defined, but I think the left one is actually bigger.

I guess all this is a matter of form issue?


----------



## Bevo

I bike my collarbones and one healed short and one longer, no one notices but it looks weird to me.

Do you use free weights?
On a machine where you share the load I can see it happening..


----------



## Murmel

I almost never use machines. The only machine I use is the fly machine. I also do incline bench on the smith because there is no incline bench station, which I haven't been doing for long enough to make the muscles unbalanced yet.

I don't know if you count cable push/pressdowns as machine use, but I use that also. There is some struggle pushing with equal force on the pushdowns. Because I pretty much never use my right arm unless I'm playing guitar or using the computer, the left arm is very dominant.

Might've exaggarated a bit with it looking super small compared to the left, it's not THAT bad


----------



## TRENCHLORD

Single handle grip one-arm tricep pushdown (can also use the rope by griping both sides of rope with one hand). I guess you could also just grip one side of rope, - gripping both sides feelf better to me.
One-arm dumbell concentration curls (seated, bent over a bit using inner thigh as an elbow brace/anchor). Place non-working/opposite hand or fore-arm on other knee or top of leg for off arm bracing.


----------



## Murmel

^
Will try some single arm pushdowns next week, didn't occur to me today sadly (today was chest/triceps).

The tricep seems to be what is lagging, even though it at the same time doesn't feel like that because it's more defined, yet smaller  
Overall it's just lacking in fullness. The biceps are almost the same, they used to be worse, but I've managed to pretty much sort them out.


----------



## Dommak89

Tiger said:


> 5x7 Smolov day, two more of these before I go for the 4 plate deadlift. First squat day Ive had in a long day where I was really feeling it, it was rough.


I like your choice of music. May I ask what were listening to?


----------



## Tiger

&#1073;&#1072;&#1089;&#1090;&#1072; &#1080; &#1075;&#1091;&#1092;, they made a record in 2010 thats awesome. When I learned russian at DLI I found out that hip hop is probably the only genre you can find decent russian records of.


----------



## UCBmetal

What about close grip bench press and/or dips? These are exercises that will necessarily force you to work your arms equally since you will literally not be able to complete the lift with an uneven push. Also, these two really get you serious size results in a short amount of time which may cut down on how long it might take to even out your strength.




Murmel said:


> ^
> Will try some single arm pushdowns next week, didn't occur to me today sadly (today was chest/triceps).
> 
> The tricep seems to be what is lagging, even though it at the same time doesn't feel like that because it's more defined, yet smaller
> Overall it's just lacking in fullness. The biceps are almost the same, they used to be worse, but I've managed to pretty much sort them out.


----------



## Winspear

Dips and CGB are THE tricep exercises imo. Don't need anything e;lse


----------



## Rook

Well guys, to follow up my previous post I followed the advice I was given and am now chinning my own weight like a pro, and my bench has gone from about 45k to 60k.

I'm so happy with the progress I'm making here, I feel so much fitter too.


----------



## Tiger

^ Good job man.


----------



## Murmel

UCBmetal said:


> What about close grip bench press and/or dips? These are exercises that will necessarily force you to work your arms equally since you will literally not be able to complete the lift with an uneven push. Also, these two really get you serious size results in a short amount of time which may cut down on how long it might take to even out your strength.


I have been getting back into dips this summer. Couldn't do them before because it would hurt my chest in this really weird way. And the pain wouldn't go away for weeks. I even went to the school nurse because I thought I was having really high blood pressure or something (before I realised it was the dips).
It was fine when I did them yesterday though, but I still can't go super deep because of my shoulders. Also did my first weighted dips yesterday, definitely looking forward to the next few months.

Will try close grip bench next monday!


----------



## TRENCHLORD

Chest exercises that allow for a deep stretch,, like dips and inclines, can often cause a strange sort of soreness right on the breastbone connection. I think it might be the tendons that connect the pecs to the bone. Anyways, whatever it is, I've always got it when starting back up lifting after taking time off and even more so when I first got into lifting. It seems to go away after a few weeks, but it doesn't hurt to take a week off bench if it gets very sore. Occasionally I would even hear/feel it sort of snap or pop on one of the warm up sets, but it would never do it again that day after that one time.

I totaly agree with the slightly focused compound lifts (like CGB) being better for building, but some times imbalances can be more neurological than muscular in origin.
In other words, what happens is that on one side of the body the shoulder might be assisting more than the other side.
If a consious effort to equalize sides on the compound lift fails, then an isolation one-arm move can help teach the weak side contract better.


----------



## UnderTheSign

EtherealEntity said:


> Dips and CGB are THE tricep exercises imo. Don't need anything e;lse


Dips are fab but I prefer skullcrushers and cable pushdowns. Make me "feel" the tricep much more than close grips.


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

^for triceps, I've found decline skullcrushers supersetted with CGB, then followed by dips cover all three heads quite nicely.


----------



## UCBmetal

Murmel said:


> I have been getting back into dips this summer. Couldn't do them before because it would hurt my chest in this really weird way. And the pain wouldn't go away for weeks. I even went to the school nurse because I thought I was having really high blood pressure or something (before I realised it was the dips).
> It was fine when I did them yesterday though, but I still can't go super deep because of my shoulders. Also did my first weighted dips yesterday, definitely looking forward to the next few months.
> 
> Will try close grip bench next monday!



Trenchlord is right about the tendon issue, but lucky for you, the top half of the rep is what really works triceps in the first place. Try keeping your posture straight up (leaning forward focuses more stress on your chest) and just go to a 90 degree angle in the movement.


----------



## Bevo

Guys, have a question on duplication moves, what I mean is multiple exercises that work out the same body part.
What I am trying to avoid is a work out doing two different things but same body part.

Ideally the list would look like this and you only need one in your routine yet can mix it up with others. Hope it makes sense...Im still a newbie in the gym and here...
Can one of you guys do the body parts this way...im sure someone is bored 

Triceps > Dips, CGB, push down


----------



## Aevolve

I'm a little confused by your post.. However, you shouldn't be trying to _avoid _doing subsequent exercises that target the same muscle group. Each muscle group has different divisions/sections, called _heads_.
Different exercises target different heads to a different degree. It is often extremely effective to target only one or two muscle groups per workout, which means a lot of different exercises designated to a single muscle group.
(Sorry if you weren't saying you were avoiding them, it sounded a bit like you were- which led to me clarify the need for them.)

Examples of these kind of workout routines:

Biceps:
- Wide grip straight bar curls
- Preacher curls
- Hammer curls
- Reverse grip curls

Triceps:
- Close grip bench press
- Skullcrushers
- Dips
- Pulldowns
- Reverse grip pulldowns

etc. etc.
Also, a good way to target different heads or switch up your routine- change from regular grip to reverse grip, wide grip to narrow grip, or do some sort of iteration of the two. Some exercises don't safely permit a change in grip, however- so be careful.


----------



## Infamous Impact

PeachesMcKenzie said:


> *Biceps*
> - 5x6 (last set 10 reps) Wide-Grip Standing Curls
> - 5x6 (last set 10 reps) Wide-Grip Incline Curls
> - 5x10 Preacher Curls
> - 5x10 Reverse-Grip Preacher Curls


Damn, Ijust saw this. 20 sets on biceps? Bodybuilder logic.


----------



## Aevolve

Infamous Impact said:


> Damn, Ijust saw this. 20 sets on biceps? Bodybuilder logic.



Seemed to work to me, my arms gained pretty well when I did it. Visible difference in a little over a week.


----------



## Bevo

Peaches you understand what I was saying.

So looking at your biceps excersize, would you do all of those in one work out and if so what is the benefit?

I may be wrong but hitting the same muscle 4-5 different ways during the same workout kinda does not make sense.
One or two maybe...

My thinking is once you do a good routine and your muscles are depleted after say one set of movements, does it make sense to do more on the depleted muscle?

Hope I am making sense here, just trying to understand..


----------



## Aevolve

Potentially, you could- yes. Whether or not that would be the most effective workout is up in the air.

Essentially what you're trying to do is exhaust the muscle as much as possible- this is the same reasoning behind dropsets (if you're familiar with those). You're trying to deplete the muscle as much as you can. If you only do one exercise with a muscle group, the potential energy is there to continue exercising the same muscle group- which is wasted without additional exercises.
Also- different exercises for each muscle group ensure even growth. Take preacher curls for example- they primarily target what is called the "peak" of the bicep: a small strip head in the center, which pushes the bicep up. If you only did preacher curls, your peak head would grow- but the inside and outside heads of your bicep wouldn't, giving you a very strange looking arm.


----------



## Bevo

Ok got it, thats why I had this small muscle real sore when I did a different shoulder exercise, it was obviously one I never activated before.
Now it makes sense why guys concentrate on only sections of the body with lots of different exercises.

I want 3 days at the gym and have been doing the starting strength but find the free weights at my time are hard to get too.
What I was thinking is doing a workout over those 3 days that would hit everything and still get some running in.

How would you split it up?
Leg, Chest, Back or combinations..I want to get out in an hour as well.

Thanks


----------



## Murmel

I do a 3 day split.

Mon: Chest/tri
Wed: Back/biceps
Fri: Legs/shoulders

Works fine for me, hadn't the gym been closed sat/sun I would repeat on sunday.


----------



## Winspear

^ I do a similar split but swapping the last two workouts around.
I also swap triceps and biceps, so they are slightly being hit twice a week. Once as support for chest/back and once as their primary workout.


----------



## Bevo

That looks great, thanks!

Now can you just include what exercises you do for those parts?


----------



## UnderTheSign

Bevo said:


> That looks great, thanks!
> 
> Now can you just include what exercises you do for those parts?


Google "3 day split"...

Really, it all depends on personal preference. For chest there's flat/incline bench with barbells or dumbells, flyes, cable crossovers... Rows, deadlifts, pullups/pulldowns for back, pushdowns, skullcrushers, close grip bench for triceps, 600 different curls for biceps, squats, presses, extensions, raises, curls for legs, tons of shoulder exercises. Put some effort into this. It's your body.


----------



## Bevo

So after a month of working out and cutting back on my running I made some good progress considering how I started.
My body had a serious lack of muscle from catobolizing from the long runs, I was thin but my body fat was a bit high.
Couple stats..

% fat; 16 now 14
Weight 152 now 159
Bench 4 rep max 60lb now 140
Squat 4 rep max 80lb now 180
Rows 4 rep max 50lb now 120

Not big numbers for you guys but pretty cool for me!
That first week was a shocker, I have never been that weak in my life. My new strength is great for opening doors or jars of sauce..hell its even more fun to throw my daughter and GF around now!!

Overall I am happy and really enjoy the workouts!
I have taken your advice and upped my calories and am taking 60 grams of Whey protein a day only.

Thanks for your advice and support!!


----------



## Infamous Impact

Bevo said:


> So after a month of working out and cutting back on my running I made some good progress considering how I started.
> My body had a serious lack of muscle from catobolizing from the long runs, I was thin but my body fat was a bit high.
> Couple stats..
> 
> % fat; 16 now 14
> Weight 152 now 159
> Bench 4 rep max 60lb now 140
> Squat 4 rep max 80lb now 180
> Rows 4 rep max 50lb now 120
> 
> Not big numbers for you guys but pretty cool for me!
> That first week was a shocker, I have never been that weak in my life. My new strength is great for opening doors or jars of sauce..hell its even more fun to throw my daughter and GF around now!!
> 
> Overall I am happy and really enjoy the workouts!
> I have taken your advice and upped my calories and am taking 60 grams of Whey protein a day only.
> 
> Thanks for your advice and support!!


You're doing great!


----------



## TRENCHLORD

Yelp Bevo, like they always say; Rome wasn't built in a day.
The pyramids weren't built in 20yrs either.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dhPCjAplTM

Progress is good progress


----------



## Greatoliver

Hey guys, I've got a few questions about hitting legs:

1) How important are abduction and adduction exercises? I realise that squats will help with this, but I was wondering if I should dedicate an exercise to these muscles.

2) As I have the calves of a child, are there any exercises that will help put on more mass there? I do cycle a fair amount, and I have strength there, just not mass.

3) Are there any stretches I can do to get the flexability in my arms for front squats? (Rather than crossing over my hands)

Cheers for the help!


----------



## highlordmugfug

I had itty bitty baby calves when I started high school, I just did 200 standing calf raises every other day or so and mine got larger.


----------



## Winspear

highlordmugfug said:


> I had itty bitty baby calves when I started high school, I just did 200 standing calf raises every other day or so and mine got larger.



Yeah calf raises are great. I do mine on leg day, two sets of 10 toes in two sets toes out. Free barbell, same weight or heavier than squats.

The first time I trained calves I did 24 minutes straight of unweighted while listening to The Odyssey. I couldn't walk for 3 weeks


----------



## Greatoliver

Cheers for the advice! I'll stick a set in to my leg day.


----------



## Aevolve

Do whatever Tiger's doing for your calves man.. Jesus.


----------



## Infamous Impact

lol sprint


----------



## Tiger

PeachesMcKenzie said:


> Do whatever Tiger's doing for your calves man.. Jesus.



Lol what?


----------



## octatonic

My cutting program is a 3 days weights split with a lot of cardio added in.
I am at the gym twice a day some days.
As follows:

Monday: AM Weights - chest/shoulders/triceps. PM HIIT cardio 30-40 mins
Tuesday: PM Spin class 45 mins
Wednesday: AM Weights - back/traps/biceps. PM Spin class 45 mins
Thursday: rest
Friday: AM weights Legs. PM HIIT cardio or spin
Saturday: AM 45 min spin class then straight into a 60 min circuit training.

2 more months of cutting then I drop 4 of the cardio sessions and up the intensity of the weights and up the calorie intake for a lean bulk.


----------



## Aevolve

Tiger said:


> Lol what?



Your calves exploded. 

I'd personally like to know what you've been doing with your legs- has it just been the squats and deadlifts + running?


----------



## Tiger

Yea I only squat weekly and I deadlift about three times a month with only a few reps. I run in vibrams only though, thats where any calf musculature comes from, I do not work them out specifically.


----------



## Infamous Impact

No one took my half-assed advice on sprinting seriously? My calves doubled in size from sprinting in the first 2 months. It's the best workout for legs in general. Maybe not for size, but definitely strength. And all the forces your calves have to absorb cause them to hypertrophy like crazy.




See, his calves, like mine and most other sprinters, have a high insertion point, which would mean that no matter how hard you work them, your calves would always look small. But if you do something other than calf raises they blow up.


----------



## TankJon666

+1 on the sprinting. I added about 1/4 inch to my calves just through changing one of my usual cardio sessions of running with all out sprinting. Sprint, rest, repeat for about 15 minutes. I do train calves 3 times a week as well though, 6 x 20 reps of alternating position calf raises - either barbell accross the knees or on the calf raise machine. Calves are pretty dense muscle and can be trained hard regularly ..at least thats what I have found.


----------



## Alex6534

I'm down to about 81kg, lost a total of 31kg since February. Seem to still have a fair bit of flab, still a bit of a gut and moobs . I'm working out 5 days per week, usually lifting 5 and cardio 4 times. Lifting is isolation exercises (gym doesn't have barbells etc) and cardio is swimming one mile. Macro's are about 150g Protein, 100g carbs and about 30/40g fat if that... Hoping I can cut down to 75 and see how I go from there. Any tips?


----------



## octatonic

Alex6534 said:


> I'm down to about 81kg, lost a total of 31kg since February. Seem to still have a fair bit of flab, still a bit of a gut and moobs . I'm working out 5 days per week, usually lifting 5 and cardio 4 times. Lifting is isolation exercises (gym doesn't have barbells etc) and cardio is swimming one mile. Macro's are about 150g Protein, 100g carbs and about 30/40g fat if that... Hoping I can cut down to 75 and see how I go from there. Any tips?



Yes- drop the isolations and start doing compounds.
If you don't have barbells then use dumbbells or even body weight (chinups, pushups etc).

Well done on your progress thus far.


----------



## TankJon666

octatonic said:


> Yes- drop the isolations and start doing compounds.
> If you don't have barbells then use dumbbells or even body weight (chinups, pushups etc).
> 
> Well done on your progress thus far.



This ^

Also, if you do strictly compound exercises then I would do 3 sessions a week plus your cardio. You'll be greatful for recovery period between sessions! Deads, squats, chins, bench, standing overhead press etc.. all really take it out of you if you train hard! Isolation exercises are great for when you really want to concentrate on a specific muscle(s) but doing compound exercises will burn more calories and you will get bigger quicker - as long as your eating and sleeping right! I would stick to sets of 5 x 8reps per exercise. You need to be lifting heavy too. Basically if you feel you can do more at the end of your session then you need to up the weights your lifting.

As for protein, carb and fat intake. Based on your weight you may want to adjust your diet based on your goals, if you want to get big then will need to eat more. I stick to 1.5g of protein per pound of body weight. So, for example, I weigh 200lbs (give or take a few pounds) and I eat approx 300g of protein a day. Of my 3000 calories a day that is around 40% protein, 40% carbs and 20% fats.

Not saying this is how you should do it. Its just my approach but something in there may be of use to you!


----------



## Alex6534

Thanks guys, might just order a barbell online, or even just a chin-up bar for now. I live in a little village and the local gym isn't the greatest. They have dumbells, but the rest of the machines are isolation exercises.

EDIT: Didn't realise you also commented on macros etc . Just now I'm on about 1500 calories, trying to cut down body fat and still retain some muscle. I've just recently in the past month/two gotten my diet in check in terms of protein consumption etc, so I think from the weight I have lost a good bit is muscle.. As I seem to be around the 16% bf so look good clothes on, clothes off still moobs and bit of a gut. Arm's are starting to get more defined though, so hopefully the change in diet is helping preserve a bit more muscle. If I can get down to single digit body fat then I will be pleased and bulk up. Hoping to get there by about 75/76kg max. If only I knew all this back in February"


----------



## octatonic

Alex6534 said:


> Thanks guys, might just order a barbell online, or even just a chin-up bar for now. I live in a little village and the local gym isn't the greatest. They have dumbells, but the rest of the machines are isolation exercises.
> 
> EDIT: Didn't realise you also commented on macros etc . Just now I'm on about 1500 calories, trying to cut down body fat and still retain some muscle. I've just recently in the past month/two gotten my diet in check in terms of protein consumption etc, so I think from the weight I have lost a good bit is muscle.. As I seem to be around the 16% bf so look good clothes on, clothes off still moobs and bit of a gut. Arm's are starting to get more defined though, so hopefully the change in diet is helping preserve a bit more muscle. If I can get down to single digit body fat then I will be pleased and bulk up. Hoping to get there by about 75/76kg max. If only I knew all this back in February"



Actually you are probably better off with dumbbells.
90% of my work is DB rather than BB's.
BB's are problematic if you don't have a spotter (the bar can end up on your chest- you can always drop DB's) and DB's mean you can use your stronger arm to push the bar up- with DB's you will increase the strength in your weaker arm.

How are you measuring your body fat?
16% should be an almost flat belly and only 2-3% away from a 6 pack starting to be visible.
If using scales that have a body fat function then ignore them- they are junk.
Most people underestimate their body fat.

Use this as a guide.






If you aren't close to the pic on the far right then you probably aren't around 16%. (Not trying to bum you out- it is just how it is).

The best way to estimate (unless you have a floatation tank to hand) is to use calipers.

1500 calories is low- how tall/old are you and what is your current weight?
You might be burning too much muscle by under eating.
You want to eat 20% less than you use to burn mostly fat.
Eating less than that is counter productive as you go into starvation mode, you body holds onto fat and you burn muscle (because your body thinks there is a famine).


----------



## TRENCHLORD

Infamous Impact said:


> No one took my half-assed advice on sprinting seriously? My calves doubled in size from sprinting in the first 2 months. It's the best workout for legs in general. Maybe not for size, but definitely strength. And all the forces your calves have to absorb cause them to hypertrophy like crazy..


 
.

Another great thing is jumping rope variations.
You don't even need the rope . (I don't own one)

Just hop in place while gradually rotating clock-wise 360 degrees, then switch direction and rotate counter clock-wise ect.,ect.,
I do each direction in 12 counts.
There's a ton of things you can do with the arms, included a basic run movement, a boxing gaurd, arms straight up reaching high stationary, arms out, arms down, ect.,
There's different thing you can do with the feet as well, just watch a pro boxer jump rope and practice foot work.

This is also a great warmup for any big lift centered workout.
Within a couple minutes (especially if you are heavy) the calves are frying great,
and all the turning and direction switching hits the calves and shins on all sides more thoroughly than just about anything (even trail running).


----------



## Bevo

Question on my progress.

My weight, strength and BF are all up and I am at 162 for a 10 pound gain over 5 weeks.
Looking at that I think I am getting the right calories and protein and maybe a bit extra.

Right now I have backed off my running to a couple days a week, can I ad another day and increase my distance yet still get stronger/leaner?
I like my weight but not the BF


----------



## octatonic

Bevo said:


> Question on my progress.
> 
> My weight, strength and BF are all up and I am at 162 for a 10 pound gain over 5 weeks.
> Looking at that I think I am getting the right calories and protein and maybe a bit extra.
> 
> Right now I have backed off my running to a couple days a week, can I ad another day and increase my distance yet still get stronger/leaner?
> I like my weight but not the BF



It is hard to say without knowing the entire story.
In theory though adding more running will see a drop in body fat if you are currently lean bulking.

10lb's in 5 weeks is a fair bit of weight to put on in that time.
Most of it won't be lean muscle.
It takes most people a year to put on 10lbs of lean muscle.

You might have put on 1-2lbs in 5 weeks at a maximum, unless you are doing steroids.
10lbs in 5 weeks will mostly be water with a bit of fat and muscle.
(or it could be a LOT of fat and not muscle if your diet isn't great)

I'd need to see your stats (age/height/weight), a full week's diet (meaning everything that passes your lips) and a week's training programme to know what is going on.


----------



## Bevo

Did some homework and found the answer.
I was running 12-14 hours a week and it dropped down to 3 hours a week. 
On average according to my Garmin I am burning 600 calories an hour so yeah big surprise I put on weight LOL!!

I increased my calories to gain weight and added 80 grams of protein for a total of 120 for this vegetarian.
Age 45, height 5'8" did the starting strength 3-4 days a week only.

To answer my own question I will increase my miles since I LOVE to run, keep the protein up, keep the calories up and start a 3 day split and work hard with the weights.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Well I can actually say that I squat 375 now. Before when I claimed it I didn't know I wasn't going down far enough, and thanks to you guys I started going lighter and to parallel and beyond. Yesterday we did our max testing in football and I tried it, and I got it all the way to parallel and up. 
I also set a new PR on bench with 285 and a 4.89 forty yd dash (Fast time for me  )
It's gonna be a good football season.


----------



## TheBigGroove

just got back into the weightroom after 4 months off letting my tater-cuff heal....pretty much all my upper-body maxes went down 30lbs or so (not too sure about biceps) and I lost 12 lbs...the biggest hit however was to my endurence levels. I was doing the 4 sets of 6 thing with a lot of them being cycles or super sets for cut. being under 200 lbs feels weird. I figure it will be at least 2 months to get back to respectable levels. I can still throw up 255 on the bench though, which I'm happy about.


----------



## TheBigGroove

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> Well I can actually say that I squat 375 now. Before when I claimed it I didn't know I wasn't going down far enough, and thanks to you guys I started going lighter and to parallel and beyond. Yesterday we did our max testing in football and I tried it, and I got it all the way to parallel and up.
> I also set a new PR on bench with 285 and a 4.89 forty yd dash (Fast time for me  )
> It's gonna be a good football season.



I think I'm gonna have to make it into PA to watch u dude...your progress is pretty damn impressive. I miss murdering everyone in the B-league with nothing but natural strength and athleticism. I was an all-league DT (most on the nose) my first 2 years and linebacker my second 2 after I lost 60 lbs my sophomore year....all without there being a weight room out here or being able to get over 5.2 on my 40  PA is 3A though right? just a weeeee bit more competitive...my buddies and I used to push cars to get in shape during the off-season hahaha


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

I'm actually moving back to Clallam Bay. So you can watch me play Neah Bay.


----------



## Bevo

Have not played hockey for a while and since I started to do some strength training its just amazing how much better a player I am!
My shot is so hard now and pushing guys off the puck is 10 times easier not to mention my speed has increased...

I should of done this along time ago...duh!!!!


----------



## TheBigGroove

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> I'm actually moving back to Clallam Bay. So you can watch me play Neah Bay.



ha...have fun being one of the strongest guys in the league...B-league is such a joke until you get past tri-districts. the Red Devils were state champs last year, but I think quite a few key players graduated. Watch out for this kid Ty Maculley though....he's a damn savage! From what I recall he's like 5'8, 270 lbs, 5 flat 40-yard, and could bench like 275 when he was 14.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Yeah I know Ty. We're good friends with each other. He's a big bastard.


----------



## Bevo

Quick question..

Is your protein requirement based on your total weight or your weight minus your body fat?


----------



## Winspear

The later


----------



## Bevo

Picked up some protein powder and the guy for the second time tried to talk me into a test booster, I didn't bite.

What is your take on TB?


----------



## Infamous Impact

Bevo said:


> Picked up some protein powder and the guy for the second time tried to talk me into a test booster, I didn't bite.
> 
> What is your take on TB?


Don't bother.


----------



## UnderTheSign

Infamous Impact said:


> Don't bother.


^Wise words.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

^ agreed also


----------



## Murmel

God I fucking love back and biceps day. Definitely my favourite.

2 buff guys in the gym today at the same time as me, they looked really surprised when they saw me deadlift 220lbs  It was fun.


----------



## Winspear

This is pretty nuts..the longest most demotivational 4 months ever  I had to bring my calories right down to 2000 from 4000 to lose 1-2lbs a week..I was expecting more like 3000. Now 4 months later I've lost so much strength and muscle. Very well toned now though so I'm happy I have a good place to start building slowly again from, without getting fat this time. The strange thing is, I'm now up to 2800 calories and am still losing weight very slowly. I'm not too sure about adding any more incase I start getting fat again...I'm _two stone_ lighter than I was when I was eating 4k. Gonna be a slow, slow bulk I feel.


----------



## Infamous Impact

EtherealEntity said:


> This is pretty nuts..the longest most demotivational 4 months ever  I had to bring my calories right down to 2000 from 4000 to lose 1-2lbs a week..I was expecting more like 3000. Now 4 months later I've lost so much strength and muscle. Very well toned now though so I'm happy I have a good place to start building slowly again from, without getting fat this time. The strange thing is, I'm now up to 2800 calories and am still losing weight very slowly. I'm not too sure about adding any more incase I start getting fat again...I'm _two stone_ lighter than I was when I was eating 4k. Gonna be a slow, slow bulk I feel.


Bring the calories up once you're not making progress on strength again. Right now you're just gaining strength and mass back, which is why you're still losing fat. It's one of the rare cases when you can lose fat and gain muscle at the same time with the conventional cut and bulk cycle.


----------



## Winspear

Cool - Will do. My strength has increased marginally in the last 3 weeks since I started upping the cals. Just utterly confused me that at ~165lbs or so I was saying "Gotta drop from 2200 to 2000, not losing weight" and now at ~154lbs I'm eating 2.8k and not gaining!


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

Started my bulk yesterday for rugby season (not a hard bulk per se, aiming to decrease body fat due to vastly increased physical activity).


currently 145lbs ish

3000+ cals a day
starting strength 3x/week
fitness training 2+ times a week (not including rugby training)


----------



## Murmel

Took my friend with me to the gym today. He's not fit at all, but he wanted to give it a shot. 
Now I finally have someone to spot my bench too


----------



## Infamous Impact

Murmel said:


> Now I finally have someone to spot my bench too


The only reason to have a partner.


----------



## Murmel

^
Except that I had more fun today than my usual workouts, I don't really see any advantages to having a lifting partner other than for a bench spot


----------



## highlordmugfug

I've been doing pushups, hanging leg raises, chin ups, body weight squats, and I feel like I've hit a wall as I haven't really been progressing any in the last few weeks. I'm thinking it's because I'm not getting enough calories now. I'm 5'11", about 145lbs and I've only been eating ~2000-2600 calories a day, even on exercise days. What should I be aiming for caloriewise to keep building muscle and progressing, because I've been sort of stuck in the same place strength and sizewise and it's getting irritating.


----------



## Infamous Impact

highlordmugfug said:


> I've been doing pushups, hanging leg raises, chin ups, body weight squats, and I feel like I've hit a wall as I haven't really been progressing any in the last few weeks. I'm thinking it's because I'm not getting enough calories now. I'm 5'11", about 145lbs and I've only been eating ~2000-2600 calories a day, even on exercise days. What should I be aiming for caloriewise to keep building muscle and progressing, because I've been sort of stuck in the same place strength and sizewise and it's getting irritating.


Either add weight or increase mechanical disadvantage (one arm pushups, pistol squats), or do something harder (handstand pushups, dragon flags).


----------



## SymmetricScars

highlordmugfug said:


> I've been doing pushups, hanging leg raises, chin ups, body weight squats, and I feel like I've hit a wall as I haven't really been progressing any in the last few weeks. I'm thinking it's because I'm not getting enough calories now. I'm 5'11", about 145lbs and I've only been eating ~2000-2600 calories a day, even on exercise days. What should I be aiming for caloriewise to keep building muscle and progressing, because I've been sort of stuck in the same place strength and sizewise and it's getting irritating.



2000-2600 is a really wide range, I'd recommend counting your calories and being a bit more consistent than that. At your weight and height, ~2400 will be maintenance. If you're looking to gain a bit of weight and get stronger, you should shoot for about 2900 calories. Make sure you're getting plenty of protein (at least 120 grams at your current weight), drink lots of water, and maybe try a multivitamin.

If you really track those calories and your eating more than your body needs, you WILL get bigger and your lifts WILL go up.


----------



## Alex6534

Spent a week in Spain in an all-inclusive, safe to say I was mauled in the gym today  doesn't look like I've gained more than a pound if that though, which is a good thing. On goes the cut down to 75  only 5 kg left to go. Question, how far would you's cut down before bulking? I'm new to this and in the past 6 months have lost just over 4 stone, from 108kg to 80kg. I seem to still be about the 17% bf mark, so really trying to ensure this next stone or so is mostly fat and not muscle loss.


----------



## highlordmugfug

SymmetricScars said:


> 2000-2600 is a really wide range, I'd recommend counting your calories and being a bit more consistent than that. At your weight and height, ~2400 will be maintenance. If you're looking to gain a bit of weight and get stronger, you should shoot for about 2900 calories. Make sure you're getting plenty of protein (at least 120 grams at your current weight), drink lots of water, and maybe try a multivitamin.
> 
> If you really track those calories and your eating more than your body needs, you WILL get bigger and your lifts WILL go up.



Yeah, I've been kind of inconsistent on eating lately. I know I've been getting enough protein, and I've been drinking more than enough water, multivitamin's are a no go at least for now (I don't really need it I don't think, and I don't have the money for them right now anyway). 2900 is a good benchmark to stick to, thank you sir!

@Infamous Impact: I'll start adding weight and give Pistol squats a try, I don't think I could do those other exercises with good form yet.

EDIT: Rep'd.


----------



## Winspear

Alex6534 said:


> how far would you's cut down before bulking?



Until you are happy with how you look. 

I bulked to 185lbs recently but decided I wanted to get ripped before continuing so I went on a cut. I wasn't that fat so I thought I would only have to lose 15lbs or so but I've ended up losing 30lbs to look how I wanted. Lost a lot of muscle it seems. But it was my goal to get this lean and not get fat when building in the future, so it only made sense to keep cutting until I was happy - even though the strength and size loss was very demotivational.


----------



## Bevo

I have been trying to find the right balance to burn calories and gain muscle, its hard!

Running has been good because I can get the calorie loss then balance with food to get the right daily amount instead of the other way of dieting.

The negative is you gain muscle slower..


----------



## UnderTheSign

Murmel said:


> ^
> Except that I had more fun today than my usual workouts, I don't really see any advantages to having a lifting partner other than for a bench spot


A motivated and hard working training partner can push you to train harder. Most partners though... Yeah, useful for spotting only.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Football practice is really eating up my weightlifting schedule. So much sprinting, pushups, and situps that i'm too exhausted to lift.  Starting to look cut though.


----------



## Tiger

My one week old has started lifting her own bottle. She can lift her head a lot more than shes supposed to also.

In summary, preworkout drinks make strong babies.

1 Week Old holding her own bottle - YouTube


----------



## Infamous Impact

Tiger said:


> My one week old has started lifting her own bottle. She can lift her head a lot more than shes supposed to also.
> 
> In summary, preworkout drinks make strong babies.
> 
> 1 Week Old holding her own bottle - YouTube


Strong genetics.


----------



## Murmel

Bet there's whey in that bottle, not milk


----------



## Cabinet

There's no squat rack at my gym. Because my gym is for pussies.

Ok but seriously does anyone know of any alternatives to squatting that I can look into?


----------



## Maniacal

Does your gym have a smith machine? You can squat on there. There isn't really an alternative to squats, although leg press is a great exercise.


----------



## Cabinet

It does not, sadly. It's one of those health center things. I just can't get anything better at the moment 
I'll look into the leg presses though.


----------



## Maniacal

Leg press, stiff leg dead lift, barbel/dumbbell lunges, calf raises. They will sort you out if you go heavy with controlled form.


----------



## Cabinet

All of those?


----------



## Maniacal

Yes.
Do a warm up for each, then you might do a routine like this:

Leg press - 3 sets 8 - 12 reps
Stiff leg dead lift - 3 sets 6 - 8 reps
Barbell lunges - 3 sets 8 - 12 reps
Calf raises (probably on leg press machine unless you have a calf raise machine) 3 sets 8 - 12 reps

If you are a beginner, I would take out the lunges.

And of course, make sure you learn good form before worrying about how much weight.


----------



## UnderTheSign

Does your gym have barbells and dumbbells? If so, goblet squats & bulgarian split squats.


----------



## Cabinet

Yes, it has dumb bells and barbells. I want to try Starting Strength but they just don't have a squat rack.


----------



## UnderTheSign




----------



## Maniacal

Not good for bulking though. You will always be limited but how much weight you can hold. Unlike leg press/smith squat etc.


----------



## UnderTheSign

Maniacal said:


> Not good for bulking though. You will always be limited but how much weight you can hold. Unlike leg press/smith squat etc.


True, but seeing as he wants to do SS he's probably a beginner and should be able to hold the db's unless his arms are absolute spaghetti. As long as my hands don't give up I'd take those over leg presses, but I'm not a huge fan of them anyway.


----------



## Maniacal

Yep, fair enough.


----------



## Alex6534

Dammit can't get to the gym today, any good routines I can do at home? I did a 45 minute swim session this morning but never feel right unless I do some sort of weight/strength routine . Preferably ones which do not require dumbbell/barbell as I do not own those, lent the dumbbells to a friend last week


----------



## TheBigGroove

after a bad injury 2 years ago I got back into some kind of shape with a 25lb pair of dumbells and 2 saw-horses. You can do a lot with your body weight. BTW, the saw-horses were for pushup variations and tricep-dips.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

UnderTheSign said:


>




These are amazing, except even better in flat-soles/wrestling shoes and easier to hold using the super curls instead of dumbell.
Grabbing as if preparing for closest grip skull crushers, then of course reverse curling/swinging to the upper chest position.
The thing I really like about these is the way you can get super deep and still be comfortable and centered.


----------



## UnderTheSign

TRENCHLORD said:


> These are amazing, except even better in flat-soles/wrestling shoes and easier to hold using the super curls instead of dumbell.
> Grabbing as if preparing for closest grip skull crushers, then of course reverse curling/swinging to the upper chest position.
> The thing I really like about these is the way you can get super deep and still be comfortable and centered.


Hmm, kinda like front squats then? Reverse curl/clean the weight up to your chest and go from there.

I definitely second flat soles. I haven't found wrestling shoes yet and they tend to be more expensive over here so I just go with my Converse All Stars. Some dude over here squats and DLs wearing his five fingers, looks weird!


----------



## jon66

UnderTheSign said:


> Some dude over here squats and DLs wearing his five fingers, looks weird!



I'll admit, they do look a bit funny at first. Wearing them feels much more natural than shoes though, I find. I do all my gym exercises in my vibrams. I absolutely love them for everything. Especially for movements like squats/deads/standing presses. I feel I can dig my feet into the ground like talons for a really stable "grip" on the floor. 

I also notice an increase in my energy transfer on things like the start of a deadlift or in the hole on squats - I don't have a big cushionlike shoe underneath me absorbing all that energy. Then again, any good flat shoe (like Chucks) or weightlifting shoe is supposed to be similar, although I have no experience with those types of shoes.

I was (one of at least) the first at my gym to use them about 2 years ago and since then I've probably noticed about a dozen others members using them. Lots of people can be seen in YT vids training in them as well. There must be a reason they're becoming more popular.  I'd recommend them to anyone.


----------



## UnderTheSign

Yeah, that's the idea of wearing flat soles, less rocking back and forth, more "drive" into your heels and the ground. Can't find it anymore but there was a pic on bodybuilding.com of a dude leg pressing high poundage wearing running shoes, you could see the soles compressing.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

UnderTheSign said:


> Hmm, kinda like front squats then? Reverse curl/clean the weight up to your chest and go from there.
> 
> I definitely second flat soles. I haven't found wrestling shoes yet and they tend to be more expensive over here so I just go with my Converse All Stars. Some dude over here squats and DLs wearing his five fingers, looks weird!


 
Yeah it's just easier on the wrist for me than the front squats (I grab the inner-most grip with palms facing each other), and I usually use these to get my old knees and core muscles warmed up for deadlifts or even as a post deadlift thigh burner.

Converse all-stars are great idea. Never crossed my tiny mind back when I bought my wrestlers (years ago). I might go that route next time because wrestler shoes look kind of goofy IMO so I don't like wearing them outside the weightroom . Amazingly tight ankle support though.


----------



## Tiger

I only wear five fingers, for all of my running or anything, I dont own anything else. Except boots.


----------



## Uncreative123

TRENCHLORD said:


> Yeah it's just easier on the wrist for me than the front squats (I grab the inner-most grip with palms facing each other), and I usually use these to get my old knees and core muscles warmed up for deadlifts or even as a post deadlift thigh burner.




wrist wraps.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

Uncreative123 said:


> wrist wraps.


 
There you are, I was starting to wonder .

I use the Harbinger classics.
Harbinger 130 Classic WristWrap Glove (Black)

I use them for all the pushing movements and any heavy dumbell stuff, but never for deadlifts, pullups, barbell rows or anything where grip can struggle.

If I ever start doing full out front squats again I will wear them.
For a couple years they were a regular leg lift for me and I was used to doing cleans more often so front squats were comfortable without wristwraps,
although if I'd have worn them then maybe I wouldn't be complaining now .


----------



## Uncreative123

TRENCHLORD said:


> There you are, I was starting to wonder .
> 
> I use the Harbinger classics.
> Harbinger 130 Classic WristWrap Glove (Black)
> 
> I use them for all the pushing movements and any heavy dumbell stuff, but never for deadlifts, pullups, barbell rows or anything where grip can struggle.
> 
> If I ever start doing full out front squats again I will wear them.
> For a couple years they were a regular leg lift for me and I was used to doing cleans more often so front squats were comfortable without wristwraps,
> although if I'd have worn them then maybe I wouldn't be complaining now .




Those are gloves; These are wrist wraps:







Those harbinger ones are garbage. I had them years ago. Wraps make a significant difference for squats and bench.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

^ I'll take your word and order some soon. Any specific model/brand you like? What are those above?
I know the harbingers are not heavy duty at all, but the wrist wrap part never has failed to stay as tight as I make it. 
The glove part does junk out very quickly I found out. 
I only feel like I need the glove part for my dumbells, not because they hurt my hands but because the leather and the sharp knarling on my bells just seem to stick beautifully together with zero slippage, and my hands drip sweat like a faucet at anything over 50 degrees. lol

Now I have my own cage I can bench heavy alone for the first time in 5-6yrs, so some heavy duty wrist support would be very helpful.
I got lucky also because the saftey rods have a adjustment hole that perfectly matched the bar when it touches my chest, so when I hit failure all I have to do is blow out and relax a bit and the bar rest perfectly.
I've benched in cages before that required me to shim the bench up a hair in order to go all the way down without first hitting the safety bars.
My first bench day with the cage I could barely even unrack the 315, and did not complete the rep (just hadn't been able to go heavy for so many years).
After just a half dozen bench sessions I nailed 3 and almost a 4th rep with 315. Still can't give myself forced reps though, so a plateu is likely soon on the way.
I might give some over max weight partials a try to break through it when it happens, and those heavy-duty wraps would be very smart.


edit; google image searched; Inzor Z 20" it looks. I found them.


----------



## Uncreative123

TRENCHLORD said:


> ^ I'll take your word and order some soon. Any specific model/brand you like? What are those above?
> I know the harbingers are not heavy duty at all, but the wrist wrap part never has failed to stay as tight as I make it.
> The glove part does junk out very quickly I found out.
> I only feel like I need the glove part for my dumbells, not because they hurt my hands but because the leather and the sharp knarling on my bells just seem to stick beautifully together with zero slippage, and my hands drip sweat like a faucet at anything over 50 degrees. lol
> 
> Now I have my own cage I can bench heavy alone for the first time in 5-6yrs, so some heavy duty wrist support would be very helpful.
> I got lucky also because the saftey rods have a adjustment hole that perfectly matched the bar when it touches my chest, so when I hit failure all I have to do is blow out and relax a bit and the bar rest perfectly.
> I've benched in cages before that required me to shim the bench up a hair in order to go all the way down without first hitting the safety bars.
> My first bench day with the cage I could barely even unrack the 315, and did not complete the rep (just hadn't been able to go heavy for so many years).
> After just a half dozen bench sessions I nailed 3 and almost a 4th rep with 315. Still can't give myself forced reps though, so a plateu is likely soon on the way.
> I might give some over max weight partials a try to break through it when it happens, and those heavy-duty wraps would be very smart.
> 
> 
> edit; google image searched; Inzor Z 20" it looks. I found them.




These are the ones I use:

Schiek 24" Heavy Duty Black Weightlifting Wrist Wraps | eBay


"Schiek" is the brand. They seem to be the standard most places. I think I actually originally got them for squats. They're really helpful for squats and bench, as well as really have wrist curls (for us musicians). I've seen some people use them for deadlifts, but that seems completely unnecessary. 

I only use them when going over 275 for bench- and same for squat. I didn't take them with me out to LA and I was really nervous about putting up the same amount of weight I normally do without them, but I was actually fine. So they don't 'weaken' your wrists or even lag behind really.


----------



## Bevo

So I managed to put on just over 10 pounds and have adjusted my running and eating to maintain my weight and protein needs.

I have started to lean out even more and am looking much more toned, I like!!

The problem is 10lb is pretty much all I want to carry on the long runs, its amazing how much it takes away from your times.
I like the size I am and want to maintain it and am happy to work out with the weights but not sure of the program I should follow.

So goal is to stay strong at the weight I am, increase strength and stay lean.
Am I looking at high reps lower weights?
Heavy less days?
Can we do it in a 3 day full body routine?

Thanks!


----------



## Winspear

If you want to maintain your weight simply don't eat enough to gain weight. Eat good, plenty of protein, lift heavy, low reps - that will keep you strong.


----------



## Bevo

Thanks

But what about going lighter with more reps?

I find my elbows hurt with real heavy weights so have changed up my routine a bit which helped.

Is it true that lower weight high rep gives you more strength than low rep heavy?
I think that means pound for pound one is stronger than the other?

To me it looks more like endurance vs strength..


----------



## jon66

In general:

Lower weight and higher reps will increase muscle size (hypertrophy).
Higher weight and lower reps will increase strength & power.

Obviously, going TOO light and doing higher rep sets where you aren't even breaking a sweat or feeling any burn isn't doing much of anything. Along side that, going so heavy that you can barely eek out a single rep with good form is likely to lead to a serious injury. The balance lies somewhere in between for most people.

It goes without saying too that a larger muscle is usually a stronger one. Bodybuilders, while huge, are still able to list some pretty serious weight. And individuals training purely for purely strength will notice some mass/size usually follows.

Changing your body size/shape though relies more on diet than anything else. If you want to be bigger, you'll need to add more fuel to the furnace. If you want to be smaller, add less. If you're happy with the size you're at, just eat at your maintenance level and monitor yourself weekly via weight, bodyfat %, and overall measurements to see if you need to increase or decrease your calories. It's a never ending endeavor, which is what makes this lifestyle so awesome, unique, and *add your own adjective here*.


----------



## UnderTheSign

Bevo said:


> Thanks
> 
> But what about going lighter with more reps?
> 
> I find my elbows hurt with real heavy weights so have changed up my routine a bit which helped.
> 
> Is it true that lower weight high rep gives you more strength than low rep heavy?
> I think that means pound for pound one is stronger than the other?
> 
> To me it looks more like endurance vs strength..


This might help out.






If your elbow hurts on real high weights, check your form or get your elbow checked out.

Tiger is getting lighter, stronger and I believe faster too at the same time, might wanna ask him how he does it.


----------



## Tiger

More rest in between sets is the long and short of it...there are a lot of sports periodization books out there but when they all get to transitioning out of hypertrophy into conversion to strength phase, they usually focus on extended rest in between sets. Like 5 minutes, with heavy weight. Its not the be all end all of it, theres a lot to staying small and getting stronger, especially the actual act of periodization in your training, but by no means am I an expert and can only really 'speak for myself' and what has worked for me.


----------



## Bevo

I go fast between all reps and sets and make my last set of reps very hard but 6 reps.
Form wise I move the weight slow not rocking, on new stuff I get a trainer to show me the right way.

Using the chart at 80% at 10 reps 4 sets with a break of 5 min between should work.
It might actualy be good to do a leg set between a set with my elbows..

I'm also older and have beat my body pretty good so it might be some arthritis kicking in.

Thanks again for your help!


----------



## Infamous Impact

Just got some Adistars, knee sleeves, and wrist wraps. I'm going to love cleaning and snatching with these.


----------



## Aevolve

Really want to try lifting in some five-fingers, but my university gym doesn't allow them.
Oh well.


----------



## Murmel

God damnit, I need a dip belt, but they're super expensive. Might have to hunt the UK on Amazon or something.


----------



## Winspear

I got my York dip belt direct from their site for £20 it's great. Don't recommend buying from their site though it was out of stock for two months lol!


----------



## Maniacal

I just use a rucksack. I take it to the gym and fill it with weights when I'm doing dips/pull ups


----------



## Winspear

I thought of that but don't have a sturdy enough bag haha. I used to just do the dumbell between the legs but it got awkward above 20kg.


----------



## Maniacal

Yeah I was never into doing that, too risky and I would put too much focus on actually holding the weight. 

I use a army bag filled with sand, works well for running too.


----------



## Winspear

My uni gym is really anal and the manager (and the one trainer that bothers to enforce his rules) doesn't allow dip belts. He told me the "the plates aren't designed to have chains through them and will get damaged"  
So I just avoid doing triceps on his shift, everyone else is cool with it. He suggested I instead use the weighted vest they have which weighs all of 2.5kg


----------



## Maniacal

What a dick! I don't see what could be wrong with dip belts in a gym.... What about all the people who drop the dumbbells on the floor after a set? Is that not allowed either?


----------



## Winspear

There's signs saying it's not, so no  Though that doesn't actually seem to be a problem at all. They did however used to make a massive fuss about weights being on certain areas of the floor before the put mats all over the free weight area, because they would make marks. They actually had the cleaner in there scrubbing them off - it's a gym for fucks sake


----------



## Murmel

A backpack isn't really an option. I sometimes have to drag both my guitar/bass and gym bag to school, which is more than enough already.
What I'm currently doing is some sort of rope+wooden pin thing. I can attach weights, but strapping it around my body it feels like I'm getting stomach pumped because it's so tight.

I found some pretty damn cheap dip belts on Amazon, the reviews seem fine too. Funny how they go for like £50 here.. 

My creatine also arrived today. Will be interesting to see how it affects my training.


----------



## Guamskyy

Went to the gym today to work on my clean and split jerk and deadlift(no vids to prove.) Did not max out on deadlifts because I don't have a belt and didn't want to hurt my back, but I stopped at 260 lbs with my dl and 115 with my clean and split jerk. Reason why my clean and split jerk is relatively light is because of my right shoulder starting to act up. I would like to hit 300 as a max for my deadlifts, and have 45s on each side for my clean and split jerk, they're just too fun!


----------



## Infamous Impact

guambomb832 said:


> Went to the gym today to work on my clean and split jerk and deadlift(no vids to prove.) Did not max out on deadlifts because I don't have a belt and didn't want to hurt my back, but I stopped at 260 lbs with my dl and 115 with my clean and split jerk. Reason why my clean and split jerk is relatively light is because of my right shoulder starting to act up. I would like to hit 300 as a max for my deadlifts, and have 45s on each side for my clean and split jerk, they're just too fun!


I DL over 400 and don't need a belt. It's not necessary until you have 3+ plates on the bar.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

EtherealEntity said:


> My uni gym is really anal and the manager (and the one trainer that bothers to enforce his rules) doesn't allow dip belts. He told me the "the plates aren't designed to have chains through them and will get damaged"
> So I just avoid doing triceps on his shift, everyone else is cool with it. He suggested I instead use the weighted vest they have which weighs all of 2.5kg


 
Could use backpack for a few 5s or 10s or maybe even a pair of 25s.
Might get back heavy with much though.
If you did he'd likely suggest that you were going to steal the weights .

I used to hold onto one side of a small dumbell (20-40LBs) with my feet, but if the dip bar is very high it can be a hassle. Just depends on the setup.


----------



## Winspear

"Sorry mate, the weights weren't designed to go in bags, you'll damage them" 

It's no prob, like I said I just train triceps when I know it isn't his shift


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

I've got a question for you guys, my weight training class is first period this year and i'm about to buy some protein for drinking after class. Since I have to wait three hours after class for lunch I was thinking that it would be best to get a blend like Bsn's Syntha-6. That way I would get the quick digesting protein then, but also the slower digesting proteins to hold me over til lunch. 
Your thoughts? It's also important that it helps me recover enough to still feel strong at football practice in the afternoon.


----------



## UnderTheSign

Infamous Impact said:


> I DL over 400 and don't need a belt. It's not necessary until you have 3+ plates on the bar.


I think it depends on personal preference and feeling, when it comes to belt everyone has their own opinion and gives you different advice. For some 3 plates (how much is that, 310lbs-ish?) but the numbers will differ if you DL 220 or 700...


----------



## TRENCHLORD

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> I've got a question for you guys, my weight training class is first period this year and i'm about to buy some protein for drinking after class. Since I have to wait three hours after class for lunch I was thinking that it would be best to get a blend like Bsn's Syntha-6. That way I would get the quick digesting protein then, but also the slower digesting proteins to hold me over til lunch.
> Your thoughts? It's also important that it helps me recover enough to still feel strong at football practice in the afternoon.


 
Looks like a good product with fast and slow action like you're saying.
Has some fat and fiber also which is great. If you get a good whole food breakfast an hour or so before school it should work well. If not then adding more carbs post workout would be a must to help keep glycogen stores high in muscles. Sounds like a good time to chomp a snickers or payday (not king-size) along with the supplement.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Thanks a lot Trench 
And yeah, i get a really good breakfast before class. Our school is really small and the meals are practically home cooked. I'll order a tub of it now.


----------



## Infamous Impact

^ Can't beat oatmeal.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Infamous Impact said:


> ^ Can't beat oatmeal.


 We have oatmeal and cream of wheat for breakfast 3 times a week.


----------



## Infamous Impact

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> We have oatmeal and cream of wheat for breakfast 3 times a week.


Perfect.


----------



## Bevo

I like some protein powder in my oatmeal, just make it a bit more wet..


----------



## Infamous Impact

I have an urgent question for you heavy squatters. It's just come up on me this year as I started hitting heavy poundages and getting good gains, and it's just happening since it's finally starting to get cold, but....

Where the hell can I find jeans that fit my waist, AND my ass?


----------



## Alex6534

Probably going to get negged here  but has anyone here done Insanity? Looking to get a good cardio routine as I'm bored shitless of running/swimming. Considering doing the full regime in the morning, around 5.30/6am with 3/4 days lifting in the evening. Any info would be appreciated


----------



## Winspear

Infamous Impact said:


> I have an urgent question for you heavy squatters. It's just come up on me this year as I started hitting heavy poundages and getting good gains, and it's just happening since it's finally starting to get cold, but....
> 
> Where the hell can I find jeans that fit my waist, AND my ass?



Depends what kind of jeans you wear. I wear fairly baggy ones around my hips anyway but yeah it can be a problem with normal fit. Just have to wear a belt I guess! My work trousers have several inches free around the waist but are tight around my quads haha.


----------



## Winspear

Alex6534 said:


> Probably going to get negged here  but has anyone here done Insanity? Looking to get a good cardio routine as I'm bored shitless of running/swimming. Considering doing the full regime in the morning, around 5.30/6am with 3/4 days lifting in the evening. Any info would be appreciated



My friend is also considering this. The same as I've said to him a few times - I think a 3/4 day lifting routine (which is basically a full lifting routine) coupled with an intense cardio routine is totally overkill and will take it's toll very fast. 
If I wanted to do something like that I'd perhaps do a 5 day routine with a little less intense cardio Mon Wed Fri and a push/pull lifting split on Tues and Thurs


----------



## Alex6534

^The lifting routine I'd be doing wouldn't be compound lifts, since I live in a shitty little village it's all isolation machines  so it doesn't leave me completely drained) Main reason for me wanting to attempt this is I'm currently cutting down to about 73kg, it's my first cut so have a lot of fat to lose. Currently at 18% so hoping something like this along with proper nutrition will benefit me a bit more.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

I'd say just get baggy pants and wear a belt.


----------



## Infamous Impact

With my small stature and waist even belts are loose sometimes. 

Can't win everything.


----------



## Winspear

Well Alex I guess if you aren't doing compounds then it's a lot more reasonable 

Haha, yeah - I have to add holes to all of my belts!


----------



## Alex6534

I do want to do compound lifts, just don't have the equipment/college/local gym doesn't have it either  an I don't have the space for it. Kinda gutting but have to make do.... Would dumbbells be sufficient? Can squeeze them in somewhere


----------



## Winspear

Certainly! There are many dumbell exercises you can do that are better than machines. In fact the only two common exercises I can think of right now that NEED a bar are squats and deadlifts.

Dumbell bench
Dumbell shoulder press
Dumbell bent row
etc etc


----------



## Winspear

Just gonna list all the non-bar exercises I think you should do

Chest: 
Dumbell bench
Incline dumbell bench
Dumbell flyes

Shoulders:
Seated db press
Arnold press
Db front raises
Db side raises
Db rear delt raises

Back:
Pullups
Pulldowns
Db bent row
Back extension machine if you have one

Legs:
Calf press
Db lunge
Leg press
Leg extension
Leg curl

Biceps:
Db curls
Db hammer curls

Triceps:
Dips
Overhead db extension
Cable pushdown


----------



## Infamous Impact

Hmm... Cutting holes in my belts can work.

@Alex: The above is perfect. Add in some bodyweight stuff too, work up to a pistol squat, that alone will have your legs crazy strong.


----------



## troyguitar

Infamous Impact said:


> I have an urgent question for you heavy squatters. It's just come up on me this year as I started hitting heavy poundages and getting good gains, and it's just happening since it's finally starting to get cold, but....
> 
> Where the hell can I find jeans that fit my waist, AND my ass?



low rise jeans, fit on hips instead of waist. I've gone up and down over a range of like 6" in waist size and mine fit the same the whole time


----------



## TRENCHLORD

^shoe-string belt has been my friend for years when in decent shape. When not in shape my waistline takes care of things on it's own.
Great thing about the shoe-string belt is it's infinite adjustability and they're easy to keep all over the place (home, car, gym bag ect.,).
Just suck in the gut when tying it and double-knot the bow. Would look silly for shirt tuckers, which I am never.

Also cheap and stylish lol.
The bigger round hiking-boot style strings are much better for the job.


----------



## troyguitar

Also, you might not want to hear it but the best fitting jeans if you're developing big thighs are probably low-rise women's jeans: they're made for people with big thighs and skinny waists. Just get some without the sparkly flowers on the ass (unless of course you are into that sort of thing ).


----------



## TRENCHLORD

troyguitar said:


> Also, you might not want to hear it but the best fitting jeans if you're developing big thighs are probably low-rise women's jeans: they're made for people with big thighs and skinny waists. Just get some without the sparkly flowers on the ass (unless of course you are into that sort of thing ).


 
 Man I didn't want to hear that either .


----------



## troyguitar

If you don't get them 3 sizes too small or super skinny legged or super flared they just look like normal semi-stylish jeans. I have some and even wear them to work occasionally, no one can tell.


----------



## Infamous Impact

Thanks for the ideas. I have low-rise jeans, for men. 
I never really thought of wearing them, simply because the last time I wore them (2+ years ago, forever a midget) they were stupidly baggy on my thighs and calves. I'll see how they fit now.


----------



## Murmel

Infamous Impact said:


> With my small stature and waist even belts are loose sometimes.
> 
> Can't win everything.



What your usual waist/leg length on a pair of jeans? I have a 30" waist and I gotta get them short belts. I think I've found one size smaller than what I wear in belts too, but that would be too small for me.


----------



## prashanthan

I have a 30" waist but wear 34" straight leg jeans to accommodate my thighs. With a belt it's all good. Remember, the problem of finding jeans that fit will never be as big as the problem of being weak!


----------



## troyguitar

prashanthan said:


> Remember, the problem of finding jeans that fit will never be as big as the problem of being weak!


 
What's the problem of being weak? I have needed above average physical strength exactly zero times in my life.


----------



## jon66

troyguitar said:


> What's the problem of being weak? I have needed above average physical strength exactly zero times in my life.



Here's a recent example from work this past week, although I don't know how well it fits the "average physical strength" title...

We've got one of those water cooler things that holds the big 20L water jugs in it. Well it was empty, and I didn't know where they kept the new jugs. This other guy I work with showed me where they were and he bends down and grabs one, hoisting it up with 2 hands, and carries it the 50-60 ft through the office to where the cooler was. I didn't really think he was straining or anything until we approached a door, and he says "get the door" between breaths, as if he was gasping for air. Initially I didn't think anything of it. Didn't do any math in my head telling me 20L was 20kg, etc. Just thought to myself "hmm those bottles must be pretty heavy".

Then yesterday I replaced it myself, and just carried it through the office in one hand, no different than I'd carry a guitar case or briefcase. Then it dawned on me, this this is only as heavy as a 20kg or 45-lb plate at the gym. Why the hell was that other guy straining so bad?


----------



## Murmel

What rep range do you guys generally go for with dips? I've been aiming quite high lately, 10-12. Might strap on some heavier weights next workout to see what it's like in the 5 rep range.


----------



## Winspear

4-6 much like bench, squats, and DL's.


----------



## prashanthan

troyguitar said:


> What's the problem of being weak? I have needed above average physical strength exactly zero times in my life.



Haha jam dude, I was joking. Try life with below average strength though; lugging around guitars/basses in hard cases and amp gear was much more difficult when I was 5ft 10 and 55kg, squatting and deadlifting <40kg, so I can tell you being weak was a problem!




Murmel said:


> What rep range do you guys generally go for with dips? I've been aiming quite high lately, 10-12. Might strap on some heavier weights next workout to see what it's like in the 5 rep range.



I don't know about anybody else but with really heavy weights on dips, my shoulders don't feel all that safe at parallel. I personally don't do less than 8 reps for dips.


----------



## Winspear

prashanthan said:


> Haha jam dude, I was joking. Try life with below average strength though; lugging around guitars/basses in hard cases and amp gear was much more difficult when I was 5ft 10 and 55kg, squatting and deadlifting <40kg, so I can tell you being weak was a problem!



For sure - strength (I'm not even very strong!) has helped me out in many ways. Lugging gear of course - handling amps and cabs used to be hell. Strapping a heavy 6 string bass was tough on the back. I was able to prevent a second 5 minute walk to the van when setting up my mates gig by carrying 3 guitars and two combos. It's nice being able to carry 12 pints of milk + bags back from the store without stopping repeatedly. I have high performance on the meat aisle at work because I can carry the crates around with ease just like the lighter stock - not to mention dragging around heavy rollers of stock. Also when rigging a PA it's nice to not be one of the guys who looks like he's about to collapse the speaker stack, or to be able to carry two pieces of gear instead of one. And so on. It doesn't go amiss in the bedroom either


----------



## troyguitar

EtherealEntity said:


> It doesn't go amiss in the bedroom either


 
Only if you're rocking the fat chicks


----------



## jon66

Now instead of asking her, you just flip that bitch over yourself!


----------



## Infamous Impact

The low-rise jeans did the trick! Fits my quads, ass, and calves nicely without looking like skinny jeans, and is comfortable on the waist! Got tons of staring too. 

Feels good to be past the "do you even lift" stage.


----------



## UnderTheSign

Strenght is always useful. Everything that involves carrying heavy stuff - helping a friend move, getting your buddies small '94 Suzuki "cookie jar on wheels" out of a tight parking spot, carrying gear, the list goes on. 

Of course you don't _need _it, it just makes some stuff a hell lot easier.



Infamous Impact said:


> Feels good to be past the "do you even lift" stage.


I'm at the point where people are starting to notice my shirts getting tighter around the chest and my shoulders filling out more. Pretty decent ego stroke, actually!


----------



## Uncreative123

troyguitar said:


> What's the problem of being weak? I have needed above average physical strength exactly zero times in my life.





And what happens when you do? 


And how do you know you haven't needed it? A certain level of aesthetics comes with strength. So it would stand to reason that if you wanted to even approach some hnnnngggg you would 'need' above average strength/above average aesthetics to do so. Outside of *real rockstars and guys on the Disney channel, I don't see your stereotypical '95 lb. weaklings' hooking up with 8's, 9',s and 10's.

As somebody who has gone from skinny-fat to the opposite, I can tell you it makes a significant difference to the opposite sex. You might not consider it a 'need', but ask some of the ForeverAloner's on this forum and I'm sure they'll tell you otherwise. Yes, I'm being somewhat facetious, but just because you haven't needed it, doesn't mean that others haven't or won't.


----------



## Fiction

Uncreative123 said:


> And what happens when you do?



You say "Hey man, could you help me lift this heavy box?"

.. Crisis averted!


----------



## Tiger

Heh, your view on getting in shape changes a lot when you are trying to get on the Teams. It goes from, "Will this workout make me look more ripped?" to "Will this workout help me run through Afghan mountains with 60 pounds of gear to get to the target?"

But damn dude, I have no idea why people would not want to be healthy, strong and in shape. Born with a Ferrari, treat it like an old beater car? Nah no thanks.


----------



## troyguitar

Tiger said:


> But damn dude, I have no idea why people would not want to be healthy, strong and in shape. Born with a Ferrari, treat it like an old beater car? Nah no thanks.


 
It's pretty simple. Time and money. Once I get to my goal fitness level I'll be spending 15 minutes a day and almost no money staying there. There is a medium between your Ferrari and an old beater. I plan to get into Corvette territory: still way way way better than average but for much much less cost. I will be sitting at ~10% bf with a sub-20 minute 5k time and the ability to do 30+ pull-ups. Yeah I'll be a wimp compared to you, but I will not be in poor shape...

Most of us don't need to run through the Afghan mountains with 60 pounds of gear. The hardest "workout" I ever need to do is walk a mile with a 7 lb briefcase  Getting as fit as you would be an exercise in pure vanity, which is fine but nearly pointless for me.


----------



## Murmel

Uncreative123 said:


> And what happens when you do?
> 
> 
> And how do you know you haven't needed it? A certain level of aesthetics comes with strength. So it would stand to reason that if you wanted *to even approach some hnnnngggg you would 'need' above average strength/above average aesthetics to do so. Outside of *real rockstars and guys on the Disney channel, I don't see your stereotypical '95 lb. weaklings' hooking up with 8's, 9',s and 10's.*



I'm not gonna discuss this here, but this is false.

Not saying it doesn't help though


----------



## jon66

troyguitar said:


> It's pretty simple. Time and money. Once I get to my goal fitness level I'll be spending 15 minutes a day and almost no money staying there. There is a medium between your Ferrari and an old beater. I plan to get into Corvette territory: still way way way better than average but for much much less cost. I will be sitting at ~10% bf with a sub-20 minute 5k time and the ability to do 30+ pull-ups. Yeah I'll be a wimp compared to you, but I will not be in poor shape...
> 
> Most of us don't need to run through the Afghan mountains with 60 pounds of gear. The hardest "workout" I ever need to do is walk a mile with a 7 lb briefcase  Getting as fit as you would be an exercise in pure vanity, which is fine but nearly pointless for me.



Not to disagree with you or necessarily agree with anybody else on the matter, but on this kind of stuff everybody is different.

If you (read: any person) reach your own health and fitness goals, then that's great, I'm happy for you. 

For others, like myself, lifting is something I'm passionate about. I love the stress relief of lifting weights, and seeing my body and strength progress to new levels. Do I really *need* this much strength, size, mass? No (and I'm not even big or that strong)  But I also I don't *need* a cellphone, multiple guitars, video games, cappuccino maker, golfclubs, etc. But for me, I enjoy it, and it's something that helps make me who I am.


----------



## Maniacal

You know you have serious chicken legs when you can bench way more than you can squat. I hate leg day!


----------



## Infamous Impact

Maniacal said:


> You know you have serious chicken legs when you can bench way more than you can squat. I hate leg day!








Legs, not even once!


----------



## Maniacal

okay I'm not _that_ bad!

That looks ridiculous.


----------



## jon66

If your calves are smaller than your forearms, you're doing it wrong.


----------



## UnderTheSign

There's a couple guys like that at my gym. Typically their split is chest/tri's, back/bi's and shoulders/abs. No leg work, no deadlifts.


----------



## Maniacal

I think most people at my gym are like that.

A leg day would be something like: 1 hour of solid biceps training followed by 2 sets of leg extensions and 15 minutes of mirror time.


----------



## jon66

Maniacal said:


> I think most people at my gym are like that.
> 
> A leg day would be something like: 1 hour of solid biceps training followed by 2 sets of leg extensions and 15 minutes of mirror time.



I lol'd.


----------



## Bevo

Getting back to the strength thing..

It has more to do than just strength and vanity, as you get older your activity and health during your 20's through to 40's will come into play. There is a tone of diseases that can be avoided by an active lifestyle, good diet and strength training.

A few months ago I was at my 25 year school reunion and was shocked speechless by what I saw, obese, diseased and horrible looking people from my class. Wrinkles, grey hair, liver spots, bad skin it was like a old age home..average age was 45 like myself.
As shocked as I was people were more shocked at me, no grey hair, fit healthy strong and disease free..I got ID'd at a Casino a few weeks ago (25 age limit)

Trust me on this, use your body and treat it right because before you know it your going to be where I am and may be paying the ultimate price!!

One more thing, when my dad was in his mid 30's he was diagnosed with heart disease but the tough guy said screw that... at 42 had a quadruple bypass at 50 his quality of life was reduced by 50% at 55 he had to retire because he could not work at 65 he cant get out of his chair without help.
The worst part, it could of been avoided with excersize and diet, I have the same disease and its well under control..


----------



## jon66

As sad and tragic as it is, it's becoming common to hear of people dropping dead of heart attacks in their early 60s, 50s and even in their 40s. A lot of people think "that won't happen to me" but it's not like there's magical aura protecting THEM from their sedentary lifestyle and gluttonous eating habits.

Imagine you were given a brand new car for your 16th birthday. Sure at first, you might be racing it around, and driving recklessly for the fun of it, and neglecting its regular maintenance. A few years go by, and suddenly the car starts needing a ton of parts and repairs, as it's essentially "worn out". No biggie right, sell the car and get a new one?

Can't do that with your body. That "new car" is the only car you'll ever be driving. Better to keep in good running order all along, rather than have to restore that old junker 10-30 years down the road.


----------



## troyguitar

You guys are still acting like there is no middle ground or point of diminishing returns. Maybe I'm missing something but I have yet to hear of studies showing people that can lift 400 lbs living longer than those who can only do 300, or people who run 100 miles a week versus 30, or with 10% body fat versus 5%. Do such things exist?


----------



## jon66

troyguitar said:


> What's the problem of being weak? I have needed above average physical strength exactly zero times in my life.





troyguitar said:


> You guys are still acting like there is no middle ground or point of diminishing returns. Maybe I'm missing something but I have yet to hear of studies showing people that can lift 400 lbs living longer than those who can only do 300, or people who run 100 miles a week versus 30, or with 10% body fat versus 5%. Do such things exist?



These two comments don't put the same mental image in my mind. In the upper quote where you said someone weak and average, it paints the picture of an average person who is sedentary and overweight. I wouldn't want to be that person.

The second quote though, yeah I agree with you entirely. As far as distances ran each week or weights lifted, those will all depend on each individual's goals. The main thing is that people do something to help take care of and look after themselves. 

I apologize if I came off offensive or as if I was pointing fingers at you in particular - that wasn't my intention.


----------



## Greatoliver

troyguitar said:


> You guys are still acting like there is no middle ground or point of diminishing returns. Maybe I'm missing something but I have yet to hear of studies showing people that can lift 400 lbs living longer than those who can only do 300, or people who run 100 miles a week versus 30, or with 10% body fat versus 5%. Do such things exist?



Any exercise is good. I don't think anyone here is condoning something like biking, where you don't need to have massive upper body strength, but lifting in itself is beneficial to your health. There is a point when doing too much is bad, and there is a point when you are doing too little to have an effect, of course


----------



## Winspear

Meet Egypt's Popeye

So all over the news right now is another one of these idiots. Being portrayed as a bodybuilder and displaying how 'hard' he works in the gym. Even earned him a record. Worst of all is plenty of people seem to think it's real!


----------



## TRENCHLORD

^That's like Greg Valintino.
Why anyone would think that looks anything other than bad is beyond me.
Maybe if his whole body was injected at the same time lol;.


----------



## Winspear

Yeah I watched that documentary lol. It looks ridiculous, doesn't even look like muscle, more like a tumor.


----------



## Uncreative123

Seriously though, if I stopped training after reaching my initial goals and only focused on maintaining , I'd still only be benching 225, probably wouldn't ever squat or do deadlifts, and would've missed out on so much information...and even parts of my life, that it's actually a little scary to think about. 
I don't know any guitar players who ever reach a goal and then just stop- and it's the same for lifting. There's always SOMETHING to work on or improve. It's not like reading a book and once you're done, you're done.


----------



## Fiction

There's nothing wrong with maintaining, some people may just want to improve their strength and fitness to help out with health, hobbies or their jobs.. I want to improve my fitness and strength simply to help me with some of the heavier things I need to lift at work and some hobbies (I did parkour for a while, and plan to start again)
That's my goal, to maintain a healthy lifestyle... Not to bench 300lbs and have the biggest biceps in all the lands. That's fine,that you (note: you) want to lift and reach new goals in weightlifting, where as some other people want to use the gym simply to get rid of those rolls and tone up a bit.


----------



## Marv Attaxx

Infamous Impact said:


> Legs, not even once!


----------



## jon66

Uncreative123 said:


> Seriously though, if I stopped training after reaching my initial goals and only focused on maintaining , I'd still only be benching 225, probably wouldn't ever squat or do deadlifts, and would've missed out on so much information...and even parts of my life, that it's actually a little scary to think about.
> I don't know any guitar players who ever reach a goal and then just stop- and it's the same for lifting. There's always SOMETHING to work on or improve. It's not like reading a book and once you're done, you're done.



MY personal goals in the gym are always changing and progressing as I reach them - to improve on my lifts, get stronger, bigger, faster, whatever.

Take "Mr/Mrs X" though, and THEIR specific goals might be to just maintain a certain level of health and fitness, strength, joint health, hypertrophy, mobility, bodyfat %, cardiovascular health, etc.

The same can be said for guitar players. There are those who want to learn guitar just so they can jam along with their favorite AC/DC and GNR tunes. Once they can do that, they're happy. 

Bottom line - we all have different goals, which is what makes each of us unique. It isn't really fair to look down on others for having different goals though.


----------



## UnderTheSign

EtherealEntity said:


> Meet Egypt's Popeye
> 
> So all over the news right now is another one of these idiots. Being portrayed as a bodybuilder and displaying how 'hard' he works in the gym. Even earned him a record. Worst of all is plenty of people seem to think it's real!


Here's a more elaborate article including a vid... My favorite part? "Moustafa admits to taking protein shakes to help with his bodybuilding but puts his bulging body down to genetics - his father was an Egyptian wrestler."
Moustafa Ismail, Egyptian Bodybuilder's 31-Inch 'Popeye' Biceps Earn A Place In Guinness Book Of World Records (PICTURES)

Totally mirin' those forearms, must've been doing some real heavy deadlifts...


----------



## peldikuneptun

"Anyone here bench, lift weights, etc?" 

Yes! I'm as addicted to weight lifting as I am to playing the guitar. 

Have been regularly in and out of the gym for a couple of years now, tried several different approaches - but the thing that works for me is Max-OT. 
Not sure what's the public opinion on that around here, but it sure feels good to move a lot of weight (not counting the ego-lifts, though, trying to stick to proper form).

I searched the thread but I did not find a reference to the most important bit of information regarding weight lifting I've read in, well, ever. If it's a repost, then it's still worth posting it: 

Fuckarounditis

It would have been a lot more amusing to read this if none of this applied to me. But it did.

Oh and "yay, synthol!" re: the Egyptian Popeye. Greg Valentino has a small but a devoted group of followers, apparently.


----------



## Alex6534

How much would you guys spend on a bench +weights? Looking to get started with dumbbells and barbell but no idea how much to spend, I'd be going used but don't want something that is either walmart quality or that I will outgrow too quickly.


----------



## Infamous Impact

^ Look on the internet for used weights and a bench, and get a quality power rack off Amazon. You can get a nice setup for under $500 if you look carefully.


----------



## Winspear

UnderTheSign said:


> Here's a more elaborate article including a vid... My favorite part? "Moustafa admits to taking protein shakes to help with his bodybuilding but puts his bulging body down to genetics - his father was an Egyptian wrestler."
> Moustafa Ismail, Egyptian Bodybuilder's 31-Inch 'Popeye' Biceps Earn A Place In Guinness Book Of World Records (PICTURES)
> 
> Totally mirin' those forearms, must've been doing some real heavy deadlifts...



Awful lol...
I saw a quote in the paper at work saying he hopes his exposure recently will lead to a career in professional bodybuilding.
Because bodybuilding is of course judged on huge fake out of proportion muscles, and synthol isn't at all looked down upon.


----------



## peldikuneptun

Infamous Impact said:


> ^ Look on the internet for used weights and a bench, and get a quality power rack off Amazon. You can get a nice setup for under $500 if you look carefully.



+1 to a proper power rack. 

Then again, $500 would probably also buy a subscription at a local gym plus a training and a diet plan. It's probably personal for each individual, but I find it very hard to work out at home; going to the gym though is a whole different story. More focus, less distraction, overall better workouts.


----------



## Alex6534

^I normally would agree, but I live in a village and our local gym is all isolation machines . No squat rack, bench press, chin up bar, anything like that.


----------



## Maniacal

I had to start going to a gym when it became too dangerous for my girlfriend to spot me. 

In an ideal world I would still train at home, I can't stand the average inconsiderate gym member. 

*Oh you looked away from the smith machine for 7 seconds, you must be finished with it*


----------



## peldikuneptun

Alex6534 said:


> ^I normally would agree, but I live in a village and our local gym is all isolation machines . No squat rack, bench press, chin up bar, anything like that.



aye, this is bad.


----------



## Uncreative123

Maniacal said:


> I had to start going to a gym when it became too dangerous for my girlfriend to spot me.
> 
> In an ideal world I would still train at home, I can't stand the average inconsiderate gym member.
> 
> *Oh you looked away from the smith machine for 7 seconds, you must be finished with it*




Too dangerous to spot you? I've had a gf spot me benching 315. It's not like they need to be able to lift the entire load. They're only helping out with what, maybe 30 lbs?


----------



## Maniacal

With bench it wasn't too bad, although there were a few occasions where I lifted very heavy and I was weak on the last rep, could easily get crushed. I was doing 3/4 heavy reps.

The main issue was with squats. I would have to press the weight (upto 120 kilos at the time, get it into position, squat, then somehow get the weight to the floor. I don't have a squat rack, just a bench. It was stupid so I joined a gym.

Thing is, what happens if you injure yourself when benching heavy? Is your gf going to be able to lift the weight off you? Is it worth the risk?


----------



## Uncreative123

Maniacal said:


> Thing is, what happens if you injure yourself when benching heavy? Is your gf going to be able to lift the weight off you? Is it worth the risk?




How are you going to injure yourself benching heavy? I only see two possible ways:
1) Benching 100 lbs more than you should be
2) Using suicide grip

Both scenarios would be your own fault. Both scenarios will have the same outcome regardless of a spotter or not. Like I said before, she doesn't have to lift the entire weight unless you somehow manage to drop it on yourself- in which case, I hate to break it to you, but you're already in a lot of trouble at that point. Spotters don't need to lift a lot, that's the point. Having a stronger spotter at a gym isn't a guarantee of anything either.


Case in point: Three spotters at a powerlifting meet, bar slips, crushes the guy, he died later: **WARNING- GUY DROPS HUGE AMOUNT OF WEIGHT ON HIS CHEST; GRAPHIC***
(he doesn't die in the video, but rather later due to complications, so hopefully this is ok)








I'd rather not lift heavy one day than ask for a spot from someone I'm not sure about. At least with your girl you'll know she knows wtf to do. Half the time you'll get people who follow the bar up and down the whole time with their hands half an inch from the bar (incredibly distracting and idiotic), someone with their balls in your face, or someone who yanks the bar away from you at the first sign of fatigue. So much easier when it's someone you know and trust.


----------



## Infamous Impact

Uncreative123 said:


> How are you going to injure yourself benching heavy? I only see two possible ways:
> 1) Benching 100 lbs more than you should be
> 2) Using suicide grip
> 
> Both scenarios would be your own fault. Both scenarios will have the same outcome regardless of a spotter or not. Like I said before, she doesn't have to lift the entire weight unless you somehow manage to drop it on yourself- in which case, I hate to break it to you, but you're already in a lot of trouble at that point. Spotters don't need to lift a lot, that's the point. Having a stronger spotter at a gym isn't a guarantee of anything either.
> 
> 
> Case in point: Three spotters at a powerlifting meet, bar slips, crushes the guy, he died later: **WARNING- GUY DROPS HUGE AMOUNT OF WEIGHT ON HIS CHEST; GRAPHIC***
> (he doesn't die in the video, but rather later due to complications, so hopefully this is ok)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd rather not lift heavy one day than ask for a spot from someone I'm not sure about. At least with your girl you'll know she knows wtf to do. Half the time you'll get people who follow the bar up and down the whole time with their hands half an inch from the bar (incredibly distracting and idiotic), someone with their balls in your face, or someone who yanks the bar away from you at the first sign of fatigue. So much easier when it's someone you know and trust.



Ugh, saw this on BB.com earlier this week. It was more of a freak accident than anything, poor guy died of a bruised heart. Apparently he dropped a weight like this during warmups, but the spotters caught it. Too bad the spotters were shitty during the actual lifts. Goes to show how important a good spotter is.


----------



## Maniacal

I agree. I hate it when guys spot me at the gym without me asking for help, they practically lift the weight for me! 

I've seen that video before, the spotter on this side should have had his hands under the bar when lifting that kind of weight. 

In my garden the most I did was 155kg for 3 sets of 4 (max ot routine). I was able to control the weight but if for some reason my hand slipped or whatever, I would be left with a very thin neck.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

Many of you might remember this one as well from a couple years back.
This guy is in NFL now but was free agent last I knew.
http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/ncf/news/story?id=6055248

Anyways to the point, I've seen video of him benching aagain after he recovered from his surgery and was preparing for the NFL draft.
This dumbass was once again benching with his thumbs behind the bar, and to top it off he was benching "branch warren style" where you let the weight almost fall and hit your chest then explode up only half-way before letting the bar fall back down.

Thumbs behind can be done safely (I wouldn't recommend it though), and Branch Warren style isn't necessarily bad on it's own, but when you combine the two after you already have a history of dropping the weight on your throat lol.
Some people never learn.
If I could only locate the video/interview, it's so obvious why he dropped the weight, then he has the nerve to sue the university now after becoming a millionare in the NFL, while continueing to bench like an idiot.


----------



## Winspear

Trying to get some gains and strength going again after my cut..Thinking of changing my routine.
I'm considering trying to hit full body twice a week rather than once. I can only workout 3 days max, Tues Weds Thurs is most convenient but I MIGHT be able to push Mon or Fri. 

Currently I do chest+bis+forearms Tues, quads+shoulders+calves Weds, back+hams+triceps Thurs. 
I've always liked splits as I feel the amount of energy and focus on each muscle group and sets/variation you can get in is great. However I'm starting to think maybe my muscles need to be worked more often. 

What if I did squats, bench, shoulder press, deadlifts, curls, pullups, dips, bent rows for example on Mon and Thurs or Tues and Fri?

I don't like the idea of missing out on all the other little exercises like side lats and rear delts, variations etc and my muscles receiving less sets in total each week. Not to mention the fact I can't shoulde press as much at all after chest, etc etc.. But perhaps the frequency and compound nature of these exercises will make up for this?


----------



## TRENCHLORD

Taking the Tues/Fri. for example; Week 1
Tues.- Upper-body day (Benchs, Rows, Inclines, Tricep Cable Pushdowns)
Fri.- Full-body and core (Squats, Bent Laterals, Leg-isolations)

Week 2
Tues.-(Shoulder Press, Pullups, Inclines, Curls)
Fri.-(Deadlifts, Leg Press, Bent Laterals)

also, if you could squeeze abs in on the weekend instead of on the full-body day, it would free up time for isolations (calves/hams/quads) and would serve to add another metabolism increasing active rest day.


----------



## Greatoliver

After seeing all of these bar-dropping incidents, is it uncommon to use safety bars when benching? In my college gym, we have a power cage, where you can adjust bars on the side so that if you drop the weight, it lands on them. Would this not help prevent all these injuries, or is there a reason why people don't use them (other than availability)?


----------



## TRENCHLORD

Greatoliver said:


> After seeing all of these bar-dropping incidents, is it uncommon to use safety bars when benching? In my college gym, we have a power cage, where you can adjust bars on the side so that if you drop the weight, it lands on them. Would this not help prevent all these injuries, or is there a reason why people don't use them (other than availability)?


 
Best thing really . If you have a trusted spotter that's great, but when lifting alone or in a dead gym the cage is a must.
Problem is that in the gym there's usually someone in the cage wasting space with 95LB squats or even 45LB curls.
Even if you do have a spotter, lifting inside the cage makes forced reps even safer.


----------



## jon66

TRENCHLORD said:


> Best thing really . If you have a trusted spotter that's great, but when lifting alone or in a dead gym the cage is a must.
> Problem is that in the gym there's usually someone in the cage wasting space with 95LB squats or even 45LB curls.
> Even if you do have a spotter, lifting inside the cage makes forced reps even safer.



Last time I was at the gym I was in the power cage doing back squats working up progressively to around my 70% 5RM weight. Between sets I look over, and there's a fairly well respected dude from my gym standing in the squat rack beside me with an olympic bar with a 10lb plate on each side. I jokingly say to him "Oh Davey, you're not curling in the squat rack are you?" to which he replies "yeah, why?"

...............

He didn't even get the joke? WHO hasn't heard that is the ultimate gym-goers faux-pas? 

It's not even like our gym doesn't have fixed barbells to curl with. We have ones that start at 20lb and go right up to 120lb in 10lb increments. No excuse to be filling a squat rack or power cage with your "beastly" 65lb curls. /facepalm


----------



## jon66

EtherealEntity said:


> Trying to get some gains and strength going again after my cut..Thinking of changing my routine.
> I'm considering trying to hit full body twice a week rather than once. I can only workout 3 days max, Tues Weds Thurs is most convenient but I MIGHT be able to push Mon or Fri.
> 
> Currently I do chest+bis+forearms Tues, quads+shoulders+calves Weds, back+hams+triceps Thurs.
> I've always liked splits as I feel the amount of energy and focus on each muscle group and sets/variation you can get in is great. However I'm starting to think maybe my muscles need to be worked more often.
> 
> What if I did squats, bench, shoulder press, deadlifts, curls, pullups, dips, bent rows for example on Mon and Thurs or Tues and Fri?
> 
> I don't like the idea of missing out on all the other little exercises like side lats and rear delts, variations etc and my muscles receiving less sets in total each week. Not to mention the fact I can't shoulde press as much at all after chest, etc etc.. But perhaps the frequency and compound nature of these exercises will make up for this?




It's sunday morning. Wife is still sleeping. I've got a hot cup of coffee and some headphones cranking out Fred Brum's cd hbang which just arrived yesterday... This is going to be wordy... 

I'm a big fan of getting in and out of my gym quickly and getting on with my day. I used to go to the gym and even with a 2 muscle-group split (back and bis, for example) I'd spend like 90-120mins. Back then, I didn't see many gains, since I was effectively burning out my CNS more than stimulating my muscles for growth.

Another option for you would just be to dedicate each of your 3 gym sessions per week around a 3x5 or 5x5 routine, with a couple additional accessory movements to fill out the approx 45-60 mins per lifting sessions. 

I'd agree with you that your big compound move should be the focus of your routines. I'm also a firm believer in Rippetoe's train of thought - a guy who can squat fairly heavy isn't going to have teeny tiny legs, just like a guy who can bench a fair bit isn't going to suffer from spaghetti arms.

I see a lot of guys in my local gym doing these 5-6 day splits, which, ok that's their choice. They might start the routine off with a big compound lift, like say the bench press. Then they spend the next hour to 90 minutes using all isolation machines to absolutely destroy their chest, for example.

As the saying goes "stimulate, not annihilate". Training for overall gains in strength and hypertrophy I'd recommend sticking to the 4-8 reps, depending on exercise. Based on this option, an alternative could be something like:

Mon/Tues: (pull day)
Deadlifts (entire posterior chain)
Chins (lats and biceps)
Power Cleans (builds overall power, as well as hits traps very well)

Wed: (push day)
Bench press (chest)
Press (shoulders)
Dips (chest/tri emphasis depending on variation)

Thurs/Fri: (leg day)
Squats (overall leg, focus quads)
SLDL (hams/glutes)
Calves

A couple things I'd tweak for you personally. You said you feel like working bench really fatigues your shoulders. Knowing this, you could alternate the order in which you perform those 2 movements from week to week, giving emphasis to chest/shoulder from week to week.

Power cleans can be substitued for barbell rows, but this seems to me like it'd place too much stimulus of your back when combined with the deads and chins. Maybe even chuck in some shrug-variation - power shrugs, 1-arm db, barbell, whatever you like.

To better target your quads specifically on leg day, you could use front squats to really torch those quads. It's also one of the best core exercises - takes a lot of core strength to keep you from buckling/rounding over with all that weight on your front delts.

It may seem like the volume is low and your missing out on specific muscles, like rear delts. If overall mass and strength is what your after though (remember to stick with a specific goal) gain the mass first, and later you can work on "shaping" the muscle later by working on your weak points/imbalances. (And this is moreso just for people with bodybuilding aspirations/competing, imo. It's not like someone on the street is ever going go stop you and be like "damn man, you're huge....wait, nevermind, your rear delts look little disproportionate to your lateral and front delts...noob") 

Either way, whatever you decide man, best of luck to you. All this was just an option for you is all.


----------



## Maniacal

^ Yep. Short, heavy sessions with plenty of rests have been far better for me than 90 minutes of relentless 8-12 rep sets and drop sets to failure.


----------



## Murmel

Power cleans look interesting, might try them out sometime. I wish I had access to some practice weights though, the lightest I can go without the bar being too low to the floor is 10kg in each side. Which would mean that if I fail, I'd have 40kg flying all over the place. And that's a bit of a problem because the barbell area in my gym is super tiny 

I assume it's not gonna look as good as this until after a few years


----------



## Bevo

TRENCHLORD said:


> Best thing really . If you have a trusted spotter that's great, but when lifting alone or in a dead gym the cage is a must.
> Problem is that in the gym there's usually someone in the cage wasting space with 95LB squats or even 45LB curls.
> Even if you do have a spotter, lifting inside the cage makes forced reps even safer.



Hey!!!
Not long ago 96LB was my max squat LOL!!


----------



## peldikuneptun

Murmel said:


> Power cleans look interesting, might try them out sometime. I wish I had access to some practice weights though, the lightest I can go without the bar being too low to the floor is 10kg in each side. Which would mean that if I fail, I'd have 40kg flying all over the place. And that's a bit of a problem because the barbell area in my gym is super tiny



olympic-style lifting FTW!

though I bet it's really easy to get a more or less permanent injury if you don't apply proper form. I steer clear from these things 'cause neither do I know how to do this correctly nor is there a proper coach in the gym that I go to. 
If I ever get a chance to learn from someone who knows his sh*t, I'll definitely would like to add these to the routine. Until then, I'd rather keep my back and joints in working order


----------



## Infamous Impact

^ I practiced Oly lifts with a broom and an empty bar until I got the form down. My only resources were Cal Strength and other Youtube videos. It's not nearly as complex as you think it is.


----------



## Murmel

^
I think it's difficult to practice form with a broom, tried it when I started deadlifting and it just didn't work out. I need a little bit of resistance. I'd rather use an empty olympic bar.

Youtube was also my teacher when starting out with pretty much everything, I just kept deadlifting and squatting low weight until I had it pretty much down. Now I think I deadlift with pretty good form. Unfortunately my legs are starting to become the weak point in my deads now, gotta get them squats up.


----------



## Infamous Impact

Murmel said:


> ^
> I think it's difficult to practice form with a broom, tried it when I started deadlifting and it just didn't work out. I need a little bit of resistance. I'd rather use an empty olympic bar.
> 
> Youtube was also my teacher when starting out with pretty much everything, I just kept deadlifting and squatting low weight until I had it pretty much down. Now I think I deadlift with pretty good form. Unfortunately my legs are starting to become the weak point in my deads now, gotta get them squats up.


Hence me saying to use the empty bar. Using a broom actually helped me get the positions down, and stopped being useful for technique after about 3 days. 

I still use it to do shoulder dislocations, as shoulder flexibility is really important to the snatch. I recommend it for general use, it's great for your posture.


----------



## Tiger

Just saw this and enjoyed it.


----------



## Infamous Impact

Tiger said:


> Just saw this and enjoyed it.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

I've tried to watch crossfit games but just can't stay interested for more than 5min..
They are all in amazing shape, but the whole "course" thing just cracks me up.

I'd say they should just throw on a backpack full of bricks and grab an extra heavy-duty 5gallon bucket of rocks in each hand and see who can get around the track the most number of times in 1hr. 
Would be no more or less boring to watch IMO.


----------



## Guamskyy

peldikuneptun said:


> olympic-style lifting FTW!
> 
> though I bet it's really easy to get a more or less permanent injury if you don't apply proper form. I steer clear from these things 'cause neither do I know how to do this correctly nor is there a proper coach in the gym that I go to.
> If I ever get a chance to learn from someone who knows his sh*t, I'll definitely would like to add these to the routine. Until then, I'd rather keep my back and joints in working order



As long as you keep you're back straight, chest out, and use your traps NOT your elbows to get the bar to rack position, you'll be golden.


----------



## peldikuneptun

guambomb832 said:


> As long as you keep you're back straight, chest out, and use your traps NOT your elbows to get the bar to rack position, you'll be golden.



thanks, will give it a shot that later this week.

I had leg day this morning, them chicken-sticks are still shaking 9 hours later


----------



## Infamous Impact

I do an Olympic-style routine where I'm squatting and doing the O-lifts and accessories 5 days a week. I can take the volume and it's helped my sprinting the most out of all I've done. What do you guys do?


----------



## TRENCHLORD

Murmel said:


> Power cleans look interesting, might try them out sometime. I wish I had access to some practice weights though, the lightest I can go without the bar being too low to the floor is 10kg in each side. Which would mean that if I fail, I'd have 40kg flying all over the place. And that's a bit of a problem because the barbell area in my gym is super tiny


 
I would highly rectomend practicing like this the first couple times (at least).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jEm8oc5YnO8

This guys form on hang cleans is very good IMO.
Many guys use weights that require them to catch much lower, but catching at about the half-squat position is perfect for working reps on all the olympic lifts especially the hang versions.


----------



## peldikuneptun

TRENCHLORD said:


> I would highly rectomend practicing like this the first couple times (at least).
> Power Clean 6 x 120kg - YouTube
> 
> This guys form on hang cleans is very good IMO.
> Many guys use weights that require them to catch much lower, but catching at about the half-squat position is perfect for working reps on all the olympic lifts especially the hang versions.



If I could do that with such weight, I'd address myself "sir".


----------



## Bevo

That looks like it activates a huge amount of muscles!

I have tried it at home with light weights on my bar and its coming, not as hard as it looks but you have to get the technique down..


----------



## Uncreative123

Came to make fun of crossfit; hnnnnnnnnngggggg'd instead:


----------



## peldikuneptun

Uncreative123 said:


> Came to make fun of crossfit; hnnnnnnnnngggggg'd instead:



I thought I was doing pretty well in the gym. Then I saw this vid. 

I am weak


----------



## UnderTheSign

I'm glad not all xFit folks are absolute idiots...

Sam Byrd does crossfit nowadays too and says he loves it. Dude nailed an 1100lb squat record back in '08 and still lifts hella strong so he must be doing something right...


----------



## TRENCHLORD

peldikuneptun said:


> Then I saw this vid. I am weak


 
I was fine before the video. Now I'm weak and dehydrated .

These two chicks taking turns and watching each other, is a situation that could quickly get very sticky .


----------



## Bevo

Damn that was impressive!!

Those girls are strong as hell and they are built amazing.....I like!!


----------



## Infamous Impact

More Crosshit:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hu0L-2vRsNU


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

I really regeret squatting hard this morning. Did a 5-3-1 with 330-345-360 on squat and my legs are fried. Got a football game tomorrow and i'm hoping it doesn't screw me over.


----------



## Infamous Impact

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> I really regeret squatting hard this morning. Did a 5-3-1 with 330-345-360 on squat and my legs are fried. Got a football game tomorrow and i'm hoping it doesn't screw me over.


Water, fish oil, vitamins, tons of food, stretching, and foam rolling. Wearing compression pants helps me, with the blood flow.

I had 2 weeks a meet during my Smolov cycle and I still squat 4-5 times a week. Recovery is a top priority.


----------



## Bevo

Ouch!

For some reason my body just does not like heavy lifting, my joints just kill if I don't take three days minimum off between each session.

May have to join CrossFit......NO!

I do have to rethink my goals though which is just to be strong fit and not look like an anorexic runner which I was..


----------



## TRENCHLORD

Unless you are competing in a sport, then physique enhancement seems like the best goal (at least for me it does).
There are so many tremendously strong fellers that really don't look much better than the average circut training talk for 5min. between every set guys lol.
I know if I'm going to be putting several hundred pounds on my joints constantly, I at least want some beef to show for it.
That's just me though, and I do appreciate the entertainment of watching guys/girls do the strength sports.


----------



## Bevo

Guys pretty strong and does not look like it.

I guess weightlifting can also be considered a hobby just like trying to get better at guitar, its for your own benefit and sometimes you share. The guys in the video don't look to concerned with the latest Supp's but are just out to lift heavy and hang with the guys...I like it!


----------



## troyguitar

TRENCHLORD said:


> Unless you are competing in a sport, then physique enhancement seems like the best goal (at least for me it does).
> There are so many tremendously strong fellers that really don't look much better than the average circut training talk for 5min. between every set guys lol.
> I know if I'm going to be putting several hundred pounds on my joints constantly, I at least want some beef to show for it.
> That's just me though, and I do appreciate the entertainment of watching guys/girls do the strength sports.


 
I'm quite the opposite. I'd rather gain strength but stay small and light. More race car, less muscle car.


----------



## Murmel

New favourite exercise: Close grip bench.

How did I not do these before.


----------



## Maniacal

I'm about to go do that now, awesome for building triceps


----------



## Infamous Impact

Murmel said:


> New favourite exercise: Close grip bench.
> 
> How did I not do these before.


How close is close? I've always benched with my thumb on the inner ring. My triceps saw more growth than my chest when I regularly benched.


----------



## Winspear

I set my grip for CGs by touching my thumbs together. It's an awesome exercise for sure! I always found I could CG 90% of my bench weight which is nice


----------



## Winspear

Thoughts?


MONDAY
Bench 4 x 4-6
Squat 4 x 4-6
Weighted Pullup 4 x 4-6
Seated DB shoulder press 4 x 4-6
Bent Row 4 x 6-8

Hammer Curls 3 x 6-8
Forearm curls 3 x 8-10
Calves 3 x 8-10




THURSDAY
Incline DB bench 5 x 6-8
Deadlift 4 x 4-6
Weighted Dips 5 x 4-6
Leg press 3 x 6-8
Shrug 4 x 6-8

Curls 3 x 6-8
Forearm curls 3 x 8-10
Calves 3 x 8-10


----------



## TRENCHLORD

I'd say try it and see how you feel after week2.
Would imagine you'll feel overtrained by then, but some people can handle the high volume, and you're giving your CNS good recovery between workouts.

I've always had problems if I hit pushing movements more than once every 5-6days.
My chest and front delts stay sore for longer than any other muscles fpr some reason.
Except for calves, everything else only stays sore for 2days.
Seems like I can hit pulls (not deadlifts) more than anything else without feeling overtrained. I guess humans are just built for rowing (viking thoughts).


----------



## Winspear

I'll see how it goes 

I've upped the sets on some things - when I was doing a lot more chest exercises for example there would only be 3 sets per exercise. Because of this I think I'm going to change my weight scheme. 
I'd always pick a weight and stay on that weight before, meaning I _could_ get more than 4-6 on my first set but the next two sets would work out perfect. I don't think I could carry that across 4 or 5 sets. Do you think maybe I should progressively lower the weight so that each set is failure within the goal reps?
I'm really trying to push it for the end of this year. I have a very scrawny summer to make up for.

With regards to soreness, I only ever feel a bit from chest day (but that's doing a whole load of chest exercises as opposed to something like this!) and squats/deadlifts. There might be a little soreness carrying over in the legs but I think I've arranged it in the most effective way for me with regards to splitting up the exercises and getting the most out of them.


----------



## Maniacal

Not a bad workout, good to see you going heavy rather than doing loads of reps/sets. 

Why are you only doing 2 days?

My advice would be to take a stopwatch with you, make sure you get roughly the same recovery time for each set. I always rest for at least 2 minutes when lifting heavy ie MAX OT.


----------



## Uncreative123

EtherealEntity said:


> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> MONDAY
> Bench 4 x 4-6
> Squat 4 x 4-6
> Weighted Pullup 4 x 4-6
> Seated DB shoulder press 4 x 4-6
> Bent Row 4 x 6-8
> 
> Hammer Curls 3 x 6-8
> Forearm curls 3 x 8-10
> Calves 3 x 8-10
> 
> 
> THURSDAY
> Incline DB bench 5 x 6-8
> Deadlift 4 x 4-6
> Weighted Dips 5 x 4-6
> Leg press 3 x 6-8
> Shrug 4 x 6-8
> 
> Curls 3 x 6-8
> Forearm curls 3 x 8-10
> Calves 3 x 8-10





This is a really bad idea. Not only are you only working out some muscle groups only once a week, but also with only ONE exercise. The most you're doing is two different exercises for each muscle group. Most people do at least twice that even if they only hit the muscle group once a week. This is another reason full body splits are a terrible idea. One direct shoulder exercise per week and nothing for direct triceps/hamstrings/quads? Come on. 

You're trying to do too much in one session, so in turn you're doing a very low overall volume because of everything you're trying to cram in to TWO workouts. 

Full body splits are typically 3 x week and with a lot more volume. Still wouldn't recommend them. I don't see anybody making any kind of progress with them, ever.


You don't have to take my word for it. Do it and witness the results (or lack thereof) yourself. I don't know what your goals are, but I'm pretty sure they're not going to be met if you're only hitting the gym 2x a week.


----------



## Greatoliver

^Can I ask what you mean by full body splits? Does that mean only doing compound exercises or what?


----------



## UnderTheSign

Greatoliver said:


> ^Can I ask what you mean by full body splits? Does that mean only doing compound exercises or what?


He means a routine that hits all body parts each session. Hence the "full body" part.


----------



## Greatoliver

UnderTheSign said:


> He means a routine that hits all body parts each session. Hence the "full body" part.



Is that not very restricted to a few exercises, like squats, deadlifts etc? Or is it more that you do at least one exercise for each muscle per session?

I always took splits (i.e. push/pull/legs) to be better as they focus the session on a set of muscles, so that they can concentrate "damage". By doing full body sessions, you are spreading the effort out, so is less effective...?


----------



## Winspear

Greatoliver said:


> Is that not very restricted to a few exercises, like squats, deadlifts etc? Or is it more that you do at least one exercise for each muscle per session?
> 
> I always took splits (i.e. push/pull/legs) to be better as they focus the session on a set of muscles, so that they can concentrate "damage". By doing full body sessions, you are spreading the effort out, so is less effective...?



That's why I've always done 3 or 4 day splits until now. Never tried full body, ever. But many seem to like them a lot.

With the 3 or 4 day split I'm only hitting each muscle once a week. I feel I need to change that and fullbody workouts is the only way I can do it.
I can only train Mon Tue Wed Thur (Monday being a new addition, I was restricted to the 3 before) so I can't do Mon Wed Fri 3x full body. 

Thanks for the criticism. I don't like the fact I'm missing a lot isolation exercises either but I want to try this. Perhaps upping the frequency like this will be more effective than bench/incline/fly/cable fly just every Tuesday for example. 
I am going to add skullcrushers Monday and rope pushdowns Thursday ontop of what I wrote. We'll see how it goes as I'll be taking part in the 12 week transformation.


----------



## Maniacal

I just don't see how you can go real hard on each of those exercises. 

I would be tired after heavy benching. After 4 sets of heavy squats I would be exhausted... then you are doing all the other stuff after that as well! 

Also, that's 29 sets?

You are doing low rep stuff so I assume you are trying to lift heavy which means you need lots of recovery time... 2 or 3 minutes between squats etc
Are you intending on spending all evening in the gym?


----------



## Winspear

Yeah that's where I don't see the appeal of full body either but I'd like to try it. 2 hours is my goal time frame. First workout is tomorrow so I'll post how it goes!


----------



## Maniacal

Very well, I would argue that you either will probably just exhaust yourself and won't get any stronger. 2 hours is simply far too long.

If you want to put on size and strength, full body is not the way to go. 

But yeah, go for it.


----------



## Winspear

Maniacal said:


> If you want to put on size and strength, full body is not the way to go.



I really am inclined to agree. I guess the whole point of full body is that the frequency is supposed to make up for the lack of volume and perhaps weaker lifts? 

2 hours is probably a bit much. I was able to get through split workouts of similar set amounts in 90 minutes including waiting for a bench etc. I just thought I'd leave some more headroom for waiting for compound equipment. I'll take strict 2 minute rests.


----------



## Maniacal

By all means try it, but I doubt that in 12 weeks you are any bigger. I'm not trying to put you off, but in my experience, training for more than 60 minutes was counter productive.


----------



## Infamous Impact

I tried glute-ham raises for the first time 2 days ago. My hamstrings still hurt. I recommend it to anyone with access to a GHR machine. Even squatting like crazy hasn't made my posterior chain feel like that before, like the GHR did.


----------



## prashanthan

EtherealEntity said:


> I really am inclined to agree. I guess the whole point of full body is that the frequency is supposed to make up for the lack of volume and perhaps weaker lifts?
> 
> 2 hours is probably a bit much. I was able to get through split workouts of similar set amounts in 90 minutes including waiting for a bench etc. I just thought I'd leave some more headroom for waiting for compound equipment. I'll take strict 2 minute rests.



As a suggestion, if your goal is size, you could look into Jim Wendler's 5/3/1 programme, following the "Boring But Big" template. If you can only do 2 days a week, you could have a squat and bench day, and a deadlift and press day (with a bunch of assistance stuff thrown in, of course; the book will have details). It's not a world apart from the programme you're considering, but I think the sets/reps programming is more conducive to achieving good gains and spending less time in the gym.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

Just throwing shit out there now really.

Week 1
Monday- pushes (compounds then isolations of course)
Tuesday- legs
Thursday- pulls

Week 2
Monday- push/pull (alternate between compound pushes and pulls)
Tuesday- legs
Thursday- pull/push (same as monday except start with a pull and use different compounds than on the Monday push/pull)

deadlift on leg days maybe once or twice a month (you could take a week off squats once a month and do deadlifts and leg press instead)


----------



## UnderTheSign

Greatoliver said:


> Is that not very restricted to a few exercises, like squats, deadlifts etc? _Or is it more that you do at least one exercise for each muscle per session?_


The latter. You're confusing a full body "split" (wouldn't really be a split because you're not splitting it up in any way) with a full body exercise.


----------



## Infamous Impact

TRENCHLORD said:


> Just throwing shit out there now really.
> 
> Week 1
> Monday- pushes (compounds then isolations of course)
> Tuesday- legs
> Thursday- pulls
> 
> Week 2
> Monday- push/pull (alternate between compound pushes and pulls)
> Tuesday- legs
> Thursday- pull/push (same as monday except start with a pull and use different compounds than on the Monday push/pull)
> 
> deadlift on leg days maybe once or twice a month (you could take a week off squats once a month and do deadlifts and leg press instead)


Another option could be to go powerlifting style and program around the Big 3 Lifts and assistance.


----------



## UnderTheSign

Infamous Impact said:


> Another option could be to go powerlifting style and program around the Big 3 Lifts and assistance.


That's what I'd do. I believe Jim Wendler wrote about that a while ago as well and said he alternates MP and bench each week, performing one of them as a main movement and the other as assistance.


----------



## Infamous Impact

UnderTheSign said:


> That's what I'd do. I believe Jim Wendler wrote about that a while ago as well and said he alternates MP and bench each week, performing one of them as a main movement and the other as assistance.


Try adding in incline bench along with MP as assistance. I find that raising my Press doesn't help my bench too much.


----------



## peldikuneptun

in other news, it sure does suck to see the weights decreasing on a calorie deficit. what's your experience with this? has anyone had an opposite effect, with the strength going up during a diet?


----------



## Winspear

UnderTheSign said:


> That's what I'd do. I believe Jim Wendler wrote about that a while ago as well and said he alternates MP and bench each week, performing one of them as a main movement and the other as assistance.



I like that idea 

I did do the first workout on Monday. It was tiring but awesome - soreness the next day was good and is gone today. Should be fresh for tomorrows workout and will see how that goes. Chaining the compounds together didn't seem to have too much effect energy wise on my lifts, I was doing what I'd usually do on split days.


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

New routine, basically built around 3 big lifts, with assistance training done with hypertrophy split mentality

AxB exercises do for what feels necessary, increasing with ability

day 1: lower (squat)

heavy squats 3x5 or 5x5
lighter front squats or overhead squats 3x5-8
light jump squats 3x8-10
lunges 3x8-10
standing calf raises high reps

day 2: arms and chest (bench)

chinups AxB
heavy bench press 3x5 or 5x5
DB press/incline DB press 3x8
biceps however many sets of whatever exercise makes me sore (usually 21s and other supersets)
triceps same as biceps

day 3: back and upper (DL)

pullups AxB
relatively heavy OHP 3x5 
heavy deadlifts 1x5
overhead DB press 3x8 or power cleans 3x5 or both
mix up barbell rows, inverted rows, lat pulldowns, for sets of 6-10 (or 20-30 for inverted rows)

Big lift PR's (for reps) pretty weak:
1.25x BW squat
1.5x BW DL
0.8x BW bench

want to bring them to or above
1.5x BW squat
2x BW DL
1x BW bench

comfortably by the end of rugby season (mid-December). Diet fairly clean and eating quite a lot (3-5 properly-sized meals (i.e. normal people meals, not small bodybuilder reqular interval meals)) a day, supplementing only with multivitamin, whey protein and creatine.

Thoughts?


----------



## Infamous Impact

^ I honestly think you're better off on Starting Strength if your lifts are that weak, unless you're over 200 pounds. If you complain that it does nothing for aesthetic but legs, add in assistance. The chins, curls, and dips for assistance are plenty to make gains off of with the core bench, press, and row. Don't bother doing cleans until you have a decent squat.


----------



## Winspear

EtherealEntity said:


> I did do the first workout on Monday. It was tiring but awesome - soreness the next day was good and is gone today. Should be fresh for tomorrows workout and will see how that goes. Chaining the compounds together didn't seem to have too much effect energy wise on my lifts, I was doing what I'd usually do on split days.



Thursdays workout went well and only took 85 minutes. The 2 day recovery was fine - felt refreshed for all the exercises and once again managed to lift my normal weights. 
Once again I'm feeling it very much today over my whole body. I know soreness isn't the be all and end all, but I think it can only be a good thing that I'm feeling each part of my body has been worked much more by an extra set of compound rather than several extra isolation exercises.


----------



## Harry

Infamous Impact said:


> I tried glute-ham raises for the first time 2 days ago. My hamstrings still hurt. I recommend it to anyone with access to a GHR machine. Even squatting like crazy hasn't made my posterior chain feel like that before, like the GHR did.



Man, none of the two gyms I regularly go to have a GHR machine 




peldikuneptun said:


> in other news, it sure does suck to see the weights decreasing on a calorie deficit. what's your experience with this? has anyone had an opposite effect, with the strength going up during a diet?



Do you have refeed days?
I refeed regularly and have only gained strength while losing fat


----------



## peldikuneptun

Harry said:


> Do you have refeed days?
> I refeed regularly and have only gained strength while losing fat



nope, I don't do those. will have to look into it. 
is that something like cheat days, but eating clean mostly?


----------



## Infamous Impact

Harry said:


> Man, none of the two gyms I regularly go to have a GHR machine


That sucks. It's not a end-all exercise, but it's damn efficient and good for what it does.



peldikuneptun said:


> nope, I don't do those. will have to look into it.
> is that something like cheat days, but eating clean mostly?


Just eat at maintenance for the day.


----------



## peldikuneptun

Infamous Impact said:


> Just eat at maintenance for the day.



thanks, will try this.


----------



## Infamous Impact

Found the origin of "Do You Even Lift."

Lulz were had.

Iron Sport Gym&#39;s Planet Fitness response - YouTube


----------



## UnderTheSign

Infamous Impact said:


> Found the origin of "Do You Even Lift."
> 
> Lulz were had.
> 
> Iron Sport Gym's Planet Fitness response - YouTube


I think the meme is older but yeah, this one gave it a face


----------



## GalacticDeath

Infamous Impact said:


> Found the origin of "Do You Even Lift."
> 
> Lulz were had.
> 
> Iron Sport Gym's Planet Fitness response - YouTube


 
I'm pretty sure 'do you even lift' was started in bodybuilding.com.

I think it was a 14 year old poster that coined it back in 2003 if I remember correctly lol


----------



## GalacticDeath

What are your guys' stats? height, weight, lifts.

I'm 5'8" and 185lb but I seriously don't look it. 

I'm about 18-20% bodyfat

I've been lifting seriously for about 8 months now and bulking for 4 months. 

I hardly ever max out on the bench press, last time I got 225x3.
Squats I usually do around 265x8. I'm guessing I could hit 300 pretty easy.
For dead lifts I've only been doing 225x6, not one of my strong points.


----------



## troyguitar

5'10" 140 lbs still 12-13% fat, on my way down to 125-130 most likely to be at 9-10% fat. Yes I am a skinny motherfucker but still have 3" of fat to eliminate from my waist.

I can lift 140 lbs x 15 so far, aka 15 pullups which is the only lift I do


----------



## Maniacal

Just under 6'5, 240 pounds, 20% bodyfat

I am having a week off of doing MAX OT, will resume MAX OT next week. 

I assume you want the 3 obvious lifts. 

Last week I did my routine these are what I managed:
Bench 320x5 by end of year I want 330
Deadlift 440x5
Squat 220x8 - need to sort this out, only just started squatting again.

Good thing uncreative isn't here, I can post without getting bullshit shoved down my throat.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

Infamous Impact said:


> That sucks. It's not a end-all exercise, but it's damn efficient and good for what it does.


 
Yeah, the GHR machine is almost like running, without actually having to run . Absent of all the other great benifits of running, of course.


----------



## danger5oh

Maniacal said:


> Deadlift 440x5



That's a pretty damn good DL for a guy with your height! Most of the taller guys I've trained with always seem to have a harder time getting their DL #'s up.


----------



## peldikuneptun

damn, there are some strong dudes in ss.org.


----------



## Maniacal

danger5oh said:


> That's a pretty damn good DL for a guy with your height! Most of the taller guys I've trained with always seem to have a harder time getting their DL #'s up.



Yeah, I am not sure how my deadlifts are so good, especially considering how bad my squats are. I want to get to 500 pounds DL, without fucking my back in the process.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

peldikuneptun said:


> damn, there are some strong dudes in ss.org.


 It's the metal. Metal makes you strong.


----------



## danger5oh

Maniacal said:


> Yeah, I am not sure how my deadlifts are so good, especially considering how bad my squats are. I want to get to 500 pounds DL, without fucking my back in the process.



I'm no guru, but when I was competing I could pull 6 plates (585lbs) consistently at 5'6" and 180lbs. Do you pull traditional or sumo style? Either way, switch it up from time to time. I like to switch every month just to shake things up a bit. I've noticed huge gains just from strengthening the differing leg muscles being used in the initial lift off for both styles, which is usually the biggest sticking point for deadlifts. I also never go for my 1 rep max during normal training. I like to stay in the relatively normal rep range, dropping as low as 3 reps if I really must go heavy. And obviously... train legs. Like I said, I'm no expert, but I just find that if my numbers start to stagnate, it's usually because my training routine has. Don't be afraid to experiment every once in awhile.


----------



## Winspear

So I've posted about this before but I've been on 3100 cals for a couple of weeks now and still haven't gained any more than a pound. 
I was eating 4000 when I weighed 185lbs and was putting on a pound a week - fair amount of fat.
I am now 154lbs eating 3100 and not putting on. 

Never done cardio, work 3 days a week - apart from that I do the same heavy lifting and sit on my ass all week. I'd say everything is pretty consistent - is 30lbs difference in weight really less than 900 calories difference!? I want to go up but I still feel I shouldn't as I want to stay lean. 

It's almost as crazy as the fact that I had to cut down to almost 2000 calories to drop much below 175 when I cut, even though I was losing weight incredibly slowly.

Can my metabolism really be so all over the place? I don't understand how I have to cut from 175 to 154 on 2000 calories and then can't get above 154 despite eating 3100. I actually stayed around 2000 after the cut too, and didn't continue to lose weight. So how I haven't gained since then is beyond me. I didn't do cardio when I was cutting either.


----------



## MFB

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> It's the metal. Metal makes you strong



I actually do a lot worse at the gym when I listen to metal. I end up running too fast in the beginning and not sticking to routine and with weights I'll just go in and blast through them vs. doing slow, full motions.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

MFB said:


> I actually do a lot worse at the gym when I listen to metal. I end up running too fast in the beginning and not sticking to routine and with weights I'll just go in and blast through them vs. doing slow, full motions.


 
At one of the area gyms I used to go in about lunch time when the herd would thin out.
The lady at the desk wouldn't let anyone play rock/metal because that was still a time when we had a few old people in there doing fitness workouts.
Consequently it would always be either 50's music radio OR the soundtrack for Titanic .
Celiene Dione or Lollypop Lollypop !!!

Now that I lift at home it's either some sort of rock/metal or turned down talk radio.
Either way I can't stand having it blasted for too long when lifting, but occasionally pumping it up for a favorite song or section can really help increase adrenaline momentarily.


----------



## peldikuneptun

TRENCHLORD said:


> Consequently it would always be either 50's music radio OR the soundtrack for Titanic .
> Celiene Dione or Lollypop Lollypop !!!



I know the feeling. At my gym it's "contemporary dance music" and always a couple of decibels too loud. 

for the past 6 months it's been the Dethalbum II that's playing in my headphones. I've found that mostly all my workouts last a full album, not more. At the end of the workout, when it seems that all energy is spent, "Volcano" starts playing and oh yes it does help to do those last few sets with max effort  

I'm anxiously waiting for the Dethalbum III, though. Need some fresh material.


----------



## prashanthan

EtherealEntity said:


> So I've posted about this before but I've been on 3100 cals for a couple of weeks now and still haven't gained any more than a pound.
> I was eating 4000 when I weighed 185lbs and was putting on a pound a week - fair amount of fat.
> I am now 154lbs eating 3100 and not putting on.



If you're lifting weights, I think ~3000 will be about maintenance. That's about as much as I eat too, and I've been about 70kg at 5ft 10 for the past few months, whilst still making gains with my lifts on a weightlifting/powerlifting style training regime. Of course, a lot of this depends on how you're eating too - when you were eating 4000 a day, it doesn't sound like it could've been that clean?


----------



## Alex6534

Getting near the end of my first cut, just got a few more lbs to get rid of the man boobs . Would you's recommend staying at maintenance once I reach my goal? At least for a few weeks to let my body adjust?


----------



## troyguitar

EtherealEntity said:


> So I've posted about this before but I've been on 3100 cals for a couple of weeks now and still haven't gained any more than a pound.
> I was eating 4000 when I weighed 185lbs and was putting on a pound a week - fair amount of fat.
> I am now 154lbs eating 3100 and not putting on.
> 
> Never done cardio, work 3 days a week - apart from that I do the same heavy lifting and sit on my ass all week. I'd say everything is pretty consistent - is 30lbs difference in weight really less than 900 calories difference!? I want to go up but I still feel I shouldn't as I want to stay lean.
> 
> It's almost as crazy as the fact that I had to cut down to almost 2000 calories to drop much below 175 when I cut, even though I was losing weight incredibly slowly.
> 
> Can my metabolism really be so all over the place? I don't understand how I have to cut from 175 to 154 on 2000 calories and then can't get above 154 despite eating 3100. I actually stayed around 2000 after the cut too, and didn't continue to lose weight. So how I haven't gained since then is beyond me. I didn't do cardio when I was cutting either.


 
Could be worse! I gain 3-5 pounds per week, almost all fat, from eating 2500 calories per day. Maintenance is like 1800 per day.


----------



## UnderTheSign

EtherealEntity said:


> So I've posted about this before but I've been on 3100 cals for a couple of weeks now and still haven't gained any more than a pound.
> I was eating 4000 when I weighed 185lbs and was putting on a pound a week - fair amount of fat.
> I am now 154lbs eating 3100 and not putting on.
> 
> Never done cardio, work 3 days a week - apart from that I do the same heavy lifting and sit on my ass all week. I'd say everything is pretty consistent - is 30lbs difference in weight really less than 900 calories difference!? I want to go up but I still feel I shouldn't as I want to stay lean.
> 
> It's almost as crazy as the fact that I had to cut down to almost 2000 calories to drop much below 175 when I cut, even though I was losing weight incredibly slowly.
> 
> Can my metabolism really be so all over the place? I don't understand how I have to cut from 175 to 154 on 2000 calories and then can't get above 154 despite eating 3100. I actually stayed around 2000 after the cut too, and didn't continue to lose weight. So how I haven't gained since then is beyond me. I didn't do cardio when I was cutting either.


Depends on your macros I guess. Plus at 175 you were a lot more flabby.


----------



## Alex6534

I just started LeanGains intermittent fasting yesterday. Not following it completely as the times when I can access the gym change 2/3 times a week but I am following the 16 hour fast and 8 hour feeding window. Have to say, HOLY SHIT eating just 1500 calories a day in that time make you feel full to burst. Also not eating as much crap because I know I've got to get my macros in. Seems like a good way for those who enjoy bigger meals, I hate the 4/5 small meals, 2 hours after an I'd be starving . On the plus side though, I can save myself with a small meal in the afternoon then enjoy a pizza every now and then without going over my limit .


----------



## GalacticDeath

Alex6534 said:


> I just started LeanGains intermittent fasting yesterday. Not following it completely as the times when I can access the gym change 2/3 times a week but I am following the 16 hour fast and 8 hour feeding window. Have to say, HOLY SHIT eating just 1500 calories a day in that time make you feel full to burst. Also not eating as much crap because I know I've got to get my macros in. Seems like a good way for those who enjoy bigger meals, I hate the 4/5 small meals, 2 hours after an I'd be starving . On the plus side though, I can save myself with a small meal in the afternoon then enjoy a pizza every now and then without going over my limit .



That's cool, I've been wanting to try intermittent fasting for a while because I've heard so many success stories about it on youtube and bodybuilding.com. I don't really think I understand it tho. Is it essentially just eating 8 hours a day and fasting 16 hours? Also, I've heard that it's effective for cutting AND bulking. But I can't wrap my head around being able to lose fat and gain muscle at the same time.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

GalacticDeath said:


> That's cool, I've been wanting to try intermittent fasting for a while because I've heard so many success stories about it on youtube and bodybuilding.com. I don't really think I understand it tho. Is it essentially just eating 8 hours a day and fasting 16 hours? Also, I've heard that it's effective for cutting AND bulking. But I can't wrap my head around being able to lose fat and gain muscle at the same time.


 
From my understanding of it, it is essential to the program that you get the required BCAAs during the daily fast, and that you get at least the required macros during the 8 hour eating window.

Requires a fair amount of commitment and structure/time consiousness, but aparently it's effective for stripping fat quickly while retaining lean mass and maintaning lower fat levels while bulking.


----------



## Alex6534

^I think the BCAA's are for those that train in the morning, so you're not training completely fasted. For the first few days you are hungry in the morning but a black coffee sorts that out. After a few days you're not hungry at all. Fits me better since I'm usually at college in the mornings and the time the fast breaks it's just about lunch. Got a few days left until my first week, will give it 2/3 and see what the results are.


----------



## UnderTheSign

Alex6534 said:


> ^I think the BCAA's are for those that train in the morning, so you're not training completely fasted. For the first few days you are hungry in the morning but a black coffee sorts that out. After a few days you're not hungry at all. Fits me better since I'm usually at college in the mornings and the time the fast breaks it's just about lunch. Got a few days left until my first week, will give it 2/3 and see what the results are.


The BCAA's are to prevent your muscles from being broken down while fasting, I'd recommend them.


----------



## jon66

I got the greatest compliment at the gym last night.

Back info: I pride myself in being knowledgeable about stuff. Whether it's recording software, ibanez' product line, nutrition, diets, etc, I like to keep myself in "the know". I'm constantly browsing online articles, forums, sometimes even the odd bodybuilding magazine (though I don't buy many for their excess in advertising - although I realize that's their primary function) and youtube channels. I placed a LOT of focus on Rippetoe's work, primarily his form videos for the main lifts.

Anyways yada yada, last night as I approached the squat rack, this younger guy approaches me and says to me:

"Hey man, I've been watching you train for a long time now. You always have the most perfect form on all of your lifts. Watching you has really helped me improve my own form too. What did you do, go to school for this or something?"

I just wanted to hug the guy right there.  Although the primary reason I do it is so I can train more safely/effectively, it was such a great feeling to have somebody else notice and comment.


----------



## Bevo

Through the summer I was really diligent with my calories and weight lift program. This fall it all went to hell as the Whey was really bothering me and my work load went through the roof.

All the talk about protein and consistency really is true, I kept my running up but not the heavy lifts 4 times a week.
Over the last month I have managed 2 gym workouts a week and protein was 50% less.

I lost 5 pounds muscle and some hard earned inches not to mention strength!

Lesson learned!
I have bought some weights for home and found a new protein source..no excuse now!

Just thought I would share my experience..


----------



## jon66

This thread hasn't seen any action lately. Here's a bump. 

I did an awesome workout on my lunchbreak today. In and out of the gym in under 90 minutes, including warm-up and a shower afterwards. Normally I focus my workouts around big compound movements rather than the typical bodybuilderish split. Today I decided it's been a long time - I'm gonna do a full-blown arm workout. I did a mash-up of a bunch of different training protocols. Sort of max-ot'ish with some higher rep pump-rep range sets, caboosed by some fst7 sets at the end, ending with dc extreme stretches.

Workout was as follows:

warm-up:
2 sets of chins
2 sets of diamond pushups

triceps:
3 sets of weighted parallel bar dips, 8 reps, 2m rest between sets
2 sets of reverse grip straight bar skullcrushers (killer if you havent done them, btw), 10 reps, 90' rest between sets
2 sets of ez-bar reg grip skullcrushers, 12 reps, 90' rest
7 sets of overhead rope extensions, 10-12 reps, 45' between sets
dc tricep fascia stretches, 60s per arm

biceps:
3 sets wide grip barbell curls, slight lean fwd, elbows tucked at sides, 6-8 reps, 2m rest
3 sets of incline sup db curls, 10 reps, 90' rest
7 sets of machine preacher curls, 1 arm at a time, drop-set style, 10-12 reps, no rest, just alternating arms back and forth
dc bicep fascial stretches for 60s

Holy F. What a pump.  You KNOW it's been a great arm workout when you can't wash your face/hair in the shower afterwards.


----------



## Infamous Impact

jon66 said:


> This thread hasn't seen any action lately. Here's a bump.
> 
> I did an awesome workout on my lunchbreak today. In and out of the gym in under 90 minutes, including warm-up and a shower afterwards. Normally I focus my workouts around big compound movements rather than the typical bodybuilderish split. Today I decided it's been a long time - I'm gonna do a full-blown arm workout. I did a mash-up of a bunch of different training protocols. Sort of max-ot'ish with some higher rep pump-rep range sets, caboosed by some fst7 sets at the end, ending with dc extreme stretches.
> 
> Workout was as follows:
> 
> warm-up:
> 2 sets of chins
> 2 sets of diamond pushups
> 
> triceps:
> 3 sets of weighted parallel bar dips, 8 reps, 2m rest between sets
> 2 sets of reverse grip straight bar skullcrushers (killer if you havent done them, btw), 10 reps, 90' rest between sets
> 2 sets of ez-bar reg grip skullcrushers, 12 reps, 90' rest
> 7 sets of overhead rope extensions, 10-12 reps, 45' between sets
> dc tricep fascia stretches, 60s per arm
> 
> biceps:
> 3 sets wide grip barbell curls, slight lean fwd, elbows tucked at sides, 6-8 reps, 2m rest
> 3 sets of incline sup db curls, 10 reps, 90' rest
> 7 sets of machine preacher curls, 1 arm at a time, drop-set style, 10-12 reps, no rest, just alternating arms back and forth
> dc bicep fascial stretches for 60s
> 
> Holy F. What a pump.  You KNOW it's been a great arm workout when you can't wash your face/hair in the shower afterwards.


Arm workout without forearms. Son I am disappoint.


----------



## jon66

Infamous Impact said:


> Arm workout without forearms. Son I am disappoint.



That was already pushing me towards 55-60mins. I normally do my forearms specifically on back/deadlift day. That's not to say that I wont give my forearms a lil workout of their own at some point before the nights out though.  tmi?


----------



## Infamous Impact

jon66 said:


> That was already pushing me towards 55-60mins. I normally do my forearms specifically on back/deadlift day. That's not to say that I wont give my forearms a lil workout of their own at some point before the nights out though.  tmi?


Get your protein after that workout, or you'll risk losing them gainz.


----------



## Bevo

I had a great workout last night with my protein drink after like a good boy.

When I got there I was pissed it was so busy but got on everything I wanted without waiting. I did do some people watching and had some good laughs!
- I hear someone drop the weights, bang! its a guy with two 15 pounders in the machine area without the padded floor.
- dude is on the arm curl machine grunting with some serious weight, as the weight goes down he stands up, as the lifts it comes up..his elbow stayed at 90 degrees..
- I hear some yelling, look around and there is miss universe with the big boob job wearing micro shorts and a beach type bikini top yelling at a guy for checking her out.
- Buddy on the bench machine reading a book, guy asks are you using this..yeah 3 sets left.
- Cougar prowling for a bit of action, she gave me the eye and up down x-ray look...ummm no but she did land a guy.
- A group of Jersey shore wanna bee's came in and started flexing and prancing and doing there hair.
- A couple big Asian guys had some 125lb skinny guy and they kept making him lift all the weights in some machines, must of been a gang torture.

That was over 1 hour lol!!


----------



## Infamous Impact

Bevo said:


> I had a great workout last night with my protein drink after like a good boy.
> 
> When I got there I was pissed it was so busy but got on everything I wanted without waiting. I did do some people watching and had some good laughs!
> - I hear someone drop the weights, bang! its a guy with two 15 pounders in the machine area without the padded floor.
> - dude is on the arm curl machine grunting with some serious weight, as the weight goes down he stands up, as the lifts it comes up..his elbow stayed at 90 degrees..
> - I hear some yelling, look around and there is miss universe with the big boob job wearing micro shorts and a beach type bikini top yelling at a guy for checking her out.
> - Buddy on the bench machine reading a book, guy asks are you using this..yeah 3 sets left.
> - Cougar prowling for a bit of action, she gave me the eye and up down x-ray look...ummm no but she did land a guy.
> - A group of Jersey shore wanna bee's came in and started flexing and prancing and doing there hair.
> - A couple big Asian guys had some 125lb skinny guy and they kept making him lift all the weights in some machines, must of been a gang torture.
> 
> That was over 1 hour lol!!


This is why I lift in the varsity weight room at school or at the local powerlifting gym. None of this crap happens.


----------



## troyguitar

Is there a point to taking days off if I'm only doing a little bit of light lifting? Been doing 1 set of pull-ups (currently that means 15) followed by 1 set of pushups (up to 30 so far) right before dinner every day for a little bit now just for the hell of it. No real goal except to tone up a little bit but I don't want to waste my time or get hurt.


----------



## Winspear

No there is no point - you're better off doing that every day if you're going to do it.
Thing is, that's too little work to really do anything at all. It would burn next to no calories, if fat loss is your goal - and is not enough to trigger muscle stimulation. If you want to tone up your far, _far_ better off doing something as simple as skipping for even just a couple of minutes.
I'd suggest 3 sets of pullups to failure one day, and 3 sets of pushups to failure the next day - and so on. Something like that. Or all 6 sets in one day, day off, repeat. Still - even if you were doing 6 sets a day it's not enough work to do much or warrant a recovery (unless you can feel it lots the next day) so do what you wish


----------



## troyguitar

Just 1 set of each leaves my arms tired and sore for the rest of the day and the entirety of the next day. Is soreness not an indicator of enough work being done to do something? Do you guys just walk around half-crippled every day waiting on muscle rebuild?


----------



## Marv Attaxx

^ yes 
After a workout I can't lift my arms, walking is painful and if I try to do a pushup I can't lift my body off the ground. Not even a bit.
That's why I always do my workouts before going to bed 'cause otherwise I'd be useless for the rest of the day.
And each muscle group only once a week!


----------



## lobee

troyguitar said:


> Just 1 set of each leaves my arms tired and sore for the rest of the day and the entirety of the next day. Is soreness not an indicator of enough work being done to do something? Do you guys just walk around half-crippled every day waiting on muscle rebuild?



The effects of DOMS(delayed onset muscle soreness) are lessened with regular, frequent stimulus. Ever come back to exercising after taking a few weeks off and feel sore for the next week, then the next time you work out again and the soreness doesn't last as long next time? This means that the amount and duration of soreness isn't a direct indicator of growth. You have to work out when you're still a little sore. 

Try doing 3 sets to failure, like mentioned above. When you can do 7-10 pull-ups/chin-ups on all three sets with good form, add a 5 pound weight in a backpack or on a belt until you can do 7-10 reps on all sets, and add 5 more and so on. Doing the same amount of reps and/or weight won't really get you any results. You need to up the weight to get stronger. 

The real secret is discipline and following a program. Following a program made me realize how much work I could actually do. Before that, I was just fucking around with whatever I felt like doing. I looked at other people's workouts and was shocked at how much they were doing. I felt like a wuss. Then, I just picked a program and started with light weight to get good form down. Slow, steady progression is key.


----------



## Winspear

Yeah it gets better, but indeed - soreness all the time somewhat haha. High protein diets are also meant to help with recovery as far as I know.


----------



## UnderTheSign

troyguitar said:


> Just 1 set of each leaves my arms tired and sore for the rest of the day and the entirety of the next day. Is soreness not an indicator of enough work being done to do something? Do you guys just walk around half-crippled every day waiting on muscle rebuild?


Pretty much yeah. I've had leg soreness that lasted 3-4 days and I actually kinda like being sore. Not really a "pain is pleasure" guy, it just feels rewarding. Leg and chest soreness are my favorites. When you have trouble standing up after taking a dump, or squeezing your pecs when they're sore, ain't nothing like it man.


----------



## troyguitar

Eh I dunno, when my arms are sore like that it kills my guitar playing for one thing... if I have to feel even worse than that to see any gains then it is just not worth it. That would mean basically feeling like crap every day and quitting guitar.


----------



## Murmel

^
No it wouldn't because your body would get more used to working out. When I first started out I got sore as a motherfucker in every single muscle, now I rarely feel that much except for the larger muscles.

You don't have to completely destroy yourself every workout. But just 1 set of 2 exercises is not enough.


----------



## troyguitar

I'll take your word for it, next question:

I started out able to do 5 pull-ups and now can do 15. How is that possible if I'm not doing enough work to gain any strength?


----------



## Murmel

Of course you're gonna get stronger, but it's not going to be very efficient. It will also probably come to a halt sooner or later.
As with most things you get better the more you do it, pull-ups is definitely one of them.

It's wrong of us to say that it won't do anything at all. But I would definitely still recommend throwing in some more sets, and some more excersises too just to get a better balance.
I'm not saying you have to spend an hour in the gym every day, just find stuff you can do at home that doesn't take that much time. If you can put aside 30-40 mins every few days then that's great.

We all have to take into account that every person has his/her own goals, not everyone is striving after a 500lbs deadlift. Or 210lbs at 6'2 feet with 7% bodyfat.


----------



## troyguitar

True. My goal is to gain 5-10 lbs of muscle in the next year or so to be slightly less scrawny. Don't have any interest at all in being heavier or bigger than that ever. It just costs more money in food and new clothes and is harder to maintain


----------



## Murmel

If you're aiming at 10lbs of muscle gain I'd definitely throw in more exercises. It's quite a lot to gain that much from just pull ups and pushups.


----------



## troyguitar

I thought you guys doing actual lifting go for like 5+ lbs a month, I'm looking at like .75 lbs a month or so.


----------



## Murmel

That's not 5lbs of pure muscle  And if you put on that much each month you gonna get real fat.

Regardless, 10lbs with 2 exercises is a lot. Especially when they're just upper body.


----------



## Maniacal

5 pounds a month? Only if you want to be a fat bastard.

Gaining 5 pounds of muscle in a month is impossible. 60 pounds a year... 

At the moment I am lucky if I gain 8 pounds in a year, and that is with heavy lifting and a high protein diet all year.


----------



## troyguitar

OK, then again we're back to it's not worth it 

Time to quit lifting.


----------



## Bevo

Adding some muscle will help you burn fat and is a nice workout not just for getting bigger


----------



## Greatoliver

troyguitar said:


> OK, then again we're back to it's not worth it
> 
> Time to quit lifting.



It takes time, patience, and commitment, no real way around that


----------



## troyguitar

It just sounds like way too much work for minimal results. I have ~120 lbs muscle mass, I want to get to ~125 in a year or so. That should not require 2+ hours a week of heavy lifting to the point of exhaustion where I feel like crap. We're talking a very minor shift in body composition over a very long period of time. 

How is 450+ pull-ups and 900+ pushups not enough to gain like 0.4 lbs? Guess I need to do more research. I figured there would be some common ballpark numbers that are easy to estimate like there are for losing weight i.e. running a mile ~100 calories, losing 1 lb ~3500 calories => losing 1 lb per month needs running ~35 miles per month.


----------



## Marv Attaxx

Keep on lifting and you'll feel much better 
Especially for starters it's quite easy to gain muscle mass rather fast (to a certain level of course).
I've gained 20kg since I started lifting seriously (I started lifting when I was 10 years old but that was rather "trial and error" ) and I just feel awesome 

Trust me, after a while you'll be addicted to what you describe as "feeling like crap" 
I love pushing myself to the limt


----------



## UnderTheSign

Murmel said:


> That's not 5lbs of pure muscle  And if you put on that much each month you gonna get real fat.
> 
> Regardless, 10lbs with 2 exercises is a lot. Especially when they're just upper body.


Yeah, I'd at least incorporate some squats and lunges to hit your legs properly too. 

You don't have to lift 'till the point of exhaustion or feel like utter shit - the idea that you'll feel fucking terrible all the time is all between your ears. Sure, you'll feel sore, big deal. I agree arm soreness is a bugger when playing guitar but I rarely get arm soreness anyway. Back, chest and legs all seem much more prone to soreness.


----------



## Bevo

I lift as heavy as I can and rarely get sore enough to limit myself, just a nice feeling of a well used body.

Gaining the .5 LB a month won't mean a thing, your weight will fluctuate that much in a day, one small dump will fix that up.

I think your reasoning is off, you want muscle for muscle sake. Most want to be stronger, leaner and healthier. I do it for strength and health, I don't care about the lean but others do, everyone has a reason or simply just like to push metal.

Your a numbers guy, look up how much 1 lean pound of muscle burns and go from there..


----------



## troyguitar

UnderTheSign said:


> Yeah, I'd at least incorporate some squats and lunges to hit your legs properly too.



This is all in addition to ~2 miles of treadmill running on the highest incline setting (12% or so) as a leg workout and general calorie burning exercise 3-7 times a week depending on how lazy I am.

The reason I'm working only upper body is for balance. My legs are normal size and decently strong whereas my arms are extremely tiny and relatively weak - the opposite of most gym guys.


----------



## Winspear

Marv Attaxx said:


> Trust me, after a while you'll be addicted to what you describe as "feeling like crap"



 I 'feel like crap' at the moment - that's because I haven't been able to train properly in nearly a month and I'm really feeling the impact. It's making me lethargic.


----------



## Infamous Impact

My hamstrings have finally healed up enough to let me go heavy with squats and Oly lifts. So far I've lost 30 pounds on my squat and more on my C&J and Snatch. It kills me to lose progress.


----------



## UnderTheSign

Infamous Impact said:


> My hamstrings have finally healed up enough to let me go heavy with squats and Oly lifts. So far I've lost 30 pounds on my squat and more on my C&J and Snatch. It kills me to lose progress.


I know that feeling, haven't been able to train for close to 3 weeks and I just trained with ~90% of my previous numbers today. The feeling is amazing though, getting all warm and pumped after feeling shitty all that time.


----------



## Alex6534

Haven't been able to hit the gym for the past two weeks . Preparations for gigs and college deadlines are a bitch. Should hopefully be sorted for next week though, fingers crossed!. Getting ready to be obliterated when it comes to leg day


----------



## Infamous Impact

I haven't even begun to fathom the DOMS I will feel tomorrow.


----------



## Alex6534

Should hopefully finish my cut this month too, completion of my first proper cut . Need to do some serious bulking/recomping though, down at 74kg at 6ft 2 does not look particularly appealing. Getting some outline of a 4 pack though, so hoping only another few 2/3kg to go until I declare myself "lean enough". Also hoping a recomp/lean bulk will fill out a bit of the loose skin, which is a major PITA.


----------



## Winspear

troyguitar said:


> I'll take your word for it, next question:
> 
> I started out able to do 5 pull-ups and now can do 15. How is that possible if I'm not doing enough work to gain any strength?



Oh I should've clarified I wasn't talking about strength. There are always strength gains especially as a beginner. I mean progress in appearance. As far as I remember, there are even studies that show the first 3 weeks or so of progress can be entirely down to the brain and that you may not have gotten stronger or built any muscle at all.


----------



## Infamous Impact

EtherealEntity said:


> Oh I should've clarified I wasn't talking about strength. There are always strength gains especially as a beginner. I mean progress in appearance. As far as I remember, there are even studies that show the first 3 weeks or so of progress can be entirely down to the brain and that you may not have gotten stronger or built any muscle at all.


Noob gains are primarily neurological adaptations. For example, I added 20 pounds to my squat easily after switching from high bar to low bar, and learning the form of low bar squatting, after my first month of lifting. It comes down to how efficient your form is, and getting it to be efficient at moving weight.


----------



## troyguitar

Right, there's getting stronger and there's also just getting better at doing the exercise. It will become evident soon whether or not I'm actually getting stronger - I'll either keep improving or not. I wish I'd taken some measurements before I started because I swear my forearms have grown a little from just the few pull-ups I've been doing (when your arms are as skinny as mine even a tiny change is noticeable ).


----------



## Aevolve

A combination of a prolonged 2-month bout of bronchitis (which aggravated my asthma), a sinus infection, and getting 20+ stitches in my right index finger means I haven't really lifted in a couple months and won't be able to for at least a couple more weeks. This is awful. Most I've been able to do is pushups, some ab exercises.. 
Only thing remotely fun I can still do is work on pistol squats.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Ever since i posted on this thread with vids and what not and got to hear your guys feedback, i really started focusing on form more so that the weight i said i was getting was actually legit. I'm happy to say that today i did i three set with 350 on squat to parallel! It was a proud moment for me, and i'm sure i'd still be half assing it if it wasn't for this thread.


----------



## Korbain

go on a holiday in one week, was dieting and cutting then had a week off work, went of the rails lol set myself a 3 week hardout diet, im 2 weeks in and getting good results! 

Doing my usual weights session, then smashing 250-300 calories on the rowing machine after! 

Always used cross trainers, but damn, the rowing machine owns for cutting up!


----------



## Jeff Rage

I've been lifting for almost 18 years. My training is centered around getting stronger, with a secondary focus on getting bigger. I currently lift at my home gym in my garage. It has a Squat Rack and a Lat/Row. (There's also a treadmill, but that hasn't been used much.)


----------



## Greatoliver

What are your opinions on grips for deadlifts? I've reached the point where I can't keep hold of the bar using palms towards and so it seems like the options are straps or "baseball" grip. Is one better than the other, and should I mix up which hand is towards/away with the baseball grip?


----------



## UnderTheSign

Greatoliver said:


> What are your opinions on grips for deadlifts? I've reached the point where I can't keep hold of the bar using palms towards and so it seems like the options are straps or "baseball" grip. Is one better than the other, and should I mix up which hand is towards/away with the baseball grip?


I keep my right hand towards me simply because it feels more natural with me being right handed. Mixed grip > straps IMO. Try to use palms facing as much as possible though.

Do you train forearms/grip?


----------



## TRENCHLORD

I'd try palms towards the body for lighter warmup stuff, and then use alternating grip for the heavys. Try switching up which hand is reversed so that you don't take the chnce of developing a nasty twist within the lower back muscles.


----------



## Infamous Impact

Greatoliver said:


> What are your opinions on grips for deadlifts? I've reached the point where I can't keep hold of the bar using palms towards and so it seems like the options are straps or "baseball" grip. Is one better than the other, and should I mix up which hand is towards/away with the baseball grip?


Like Trench said, use overhand for you warmup sets, then mixed for you heavy working sets. That alone is good enough for your grip until you get to the 300s.

Heavy back work will also make your grip strength shoot up. Pullups, oly lifts/deadlifts, and rows. My favorite things to do.


----------



## Greatoliver

Ok cheers for the advice! I don't actually do any dedicated grip work, would you recommend it? I do pull ups and rows (i.e. most of my back workout involves gripping) but I rarely train forearms/grip, as I figured my grip strength would increase with the weight I was using for the exercises.


----------



## UnderTheSign

Greatoliver said:


> Ok cheers for the advice! I don't actually do any dedicated grip work, would you recommend it? I do pull ups and rows (i.e. most of my back workout involves gripping) but I rarely train forearms/grip, as I figured my grip strength would increase with the weight I was using for the exercises.


Some guys need it, some don't. Mind you, my highest so far is only 305 but I haven't needed grip work yet. Don't use chalk either, I think my calluses provide enough grip at least till mid 300's or 400ish


----------



## Infamous Impact

Greatoliver said:


> Ok cheers for the advice! I don't actually do any dedicated grip work, would you recommend it? I do pull ups and rows (i.e. most of my back workout involves gripping) but I rarely train forearms/grip, as I figured my grip strength would increase with the weight I was using for the exercises.


I haven't done any specific grip work yet, just heavy pulls. When I last deadlifted, my 1RM was 475.

Although that was 4-5 months ago, I don't deadlift during sports season, the CNS strain is too much for me. I do olympic lifts, GHR, bridges, and hip thrusts (it's actually really good for glutes, no matter how odd it is) for my posterior chain now.


----------



## UCBmetal

I have a great deal of respect for the strap-less deadlifters, but if you are a guitar player, be careful about DL's (and a lot of back exercises in general) overworking your forearms. In addition to potentially burning out your forearms before reaching muscle failure in the target muscle groups, lifting heavy weights (305 sans wraps is pretty heavy IMO) can really fry your forearms and the tendons in your wrists and hands, and that could lead to RSI, especially if you're playing a lot of guitar.



Greatoliver said:


> What are your opinions on grips for deadlifts? I've reached the point where I can't keep hold of the bar using palms towards and so it seems like the options are straps or "baseball" grip. Is one better than the other, and should I mix up which hand is towards/away with the baseball grip?


----------



## Winspear

I like grip work. 
When I first started DL's I literally could barely hold 50kg (overhand grip). 
I got one of those captains of crush grippers (100lb) which was pretty tough, and started doing forearm curls. Now I can click the gripper 8-10 times nice and fast, and DL up to 130kg overhand for 3 sets of 6. I definitely recommend it, but there's nothing wrong with using mixed grip. I do find I feel more 'balanced' overhand though.


----------



## iRaiseTheDead

We just got a machine a few weeks ago, I've been using it


----------



## Infamous Impact

UCBmetal said:


> I have a great deal of respect for the strap-less deadlifters, but if you are a guitar player, be careful about DL's (and a lot of back exercises in general) overworking your forearms. In addition to potentially burning out your forearms before reaching muscle failure in the target muscle groups, lifting heavy weights (305 sans wraps is pretty heavy IMO) can really fry your forearms and the tendons in your wrists and hands, and that could lead to RSI, especially if you're playing a lot of guitar.


Even after heavy pull days I've never experienced that kind of fatigue if I played guitar after. Maybe you need to eat more?


----------



## Jazzamatazz

I've done 360+ Deadlifts without chalk, I do alot of workouts that work my grip without going out of my way to work my grip so that has not been a problem for me for a long time.

It also helps alot if you do forearm stretchs regularlly, like everytime you finish playing guitar or working out. In that same vein you should be stretching after workouts anyways and doing warm ups before.


----------



## ShadowAMD

I'm never sure how much I should be lifiting? On a leg press it's something silly like 250Kg / 550lb;s approx double my weight.. On my arms I'm only doing about 60Kg / 130lb's on a bench press and it feels enough..


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

I've never used chalk on deadlift, only on hex-bar, but even then only if it's 400+.
On another note, new max on incline bench today, 225!


----------



## UnderTheSign

ShadowAMD said:


> I'm never sure how much I should be lifiting? On a leg press it's something silly like 250Kg / 550lb;s approx double my weight.. On my arms I'm only doing about 60Kg / 130lb's on a bench press and it feels enough..


Leg press weight seems to differ per person and it's largely irrelevant. Bench is more a chest w/ some shoulder and tricep thrown in though, I wouldn't consider it arms.



Infamous Impact said:


> Even after heavy pull days I've never experienced that kind of fatigue if I played guitar after. Maybe you need to eat more?


Me neither, some mild stretchy feeling or soreness perhaps but nothing bad.


----------



## ShadowAMD

UnderTheSign said:


> Leg press weight seems to differ per person and it's largely irrelevant. Bench is more a chest w/ some shoulder and tricep thrown in though, I wouldn't consider it arms.
> 
> 
> Me neither, some mild stretchy feeling or soreness perhaps but nothing bad.


 
How do you lift the weight up if you don't use your arms?


----------



## Murmel

^
You use your arms but it isn't solely an arms excersise. I feel it more in my shoulders and chest when I bench.
But yes, of course your arms are gonna get worked a bit as well if you're using them. And he didn't say it neglected arms completely either.


----------



## Winspear

ShadowAMD said:


> I'm never sure how much I should be lifiting? On a leg press it's something silly like 250Kg / 550lb;s approx double my weight.. On my arms I'm only doing about 60Kg / 130lb's on a bench press and it feels enough..



You should be lifting enough to complete your goal reps with good form with a gun held to your head, nothing more nothing less  As soon as you get one more rep, weight goes up.

Yeah bench isn't arms. It uses your triceps a bit to extend the elbow but the main movement is your chest contracting to pull your shoulder around to the front of your body.


----------



## UnderTheSign

EtherealEntity said:


> You should be lifting enough to complete your goal reps with good form with a gun held to your head, nothing more nothing less  As soon as you get one more rep, weight goes up.
> 
> Yeah bench isn't arms. It uses your triceps a bit to extend the elbow but the main movement is your chest contracting to pull your shoulder around to the front of your body.


This, I never said you didn't use your arms, it's just not an arms exercise. Sure, it hits tris a little and you can focus on tris when you do close grip, but that doesn't make it an arms exercise.

Oh and regarding your leg press being twice your weight, that's because leg press is a pretty easy exercise to go heavy on. There's dudes on youtube leg pressing 1,000 and even 2,000lbs, go figure.


----------



## troyguitar

UnderTheSign said:


> Oh and regarding your leg press being twice your weight, that's because leg press is a pretty easy exercise to go heavy on. There's dudes on youtube leg pressing 1,000 and even 2,000lbs, go figure.



haha yep I have never been into lifting but used to screw around in the weight room occasionally way back in high school. I weighed ~120 lbs back then and could leg press somewhere around 800-900 with no practice besides years of soccer playing.


----------



## Greatoliver

On the note of tris when benching, how much can you rely on other exercises to work arms? For example, doing bench/incline/shoulder press will all use triceps, and is there much point doing isolation on triceps for anything other than size? Same goes for biceps


----------



## Winspear

troyguitar said:


> haha yep I have never been into lifting but used to screw around in the weight room occasionally way back in high school. I weighed ~120 lbs back then and could leg press somewhere around 800-900 with no practice besides years of soccer playing.



Not to say you couldn't, but I must say it would surprise me if you weren't using your back. Just felt I should say this as that's very dangerous and if you ever try it again, just watch what you're doing.



Greatoliver said:


> On the note of tris when benching, how much can you rely on other exercises to work arms? For example, doing bench/incline/shoulder press will all use triceps, and is there much point doing isolation on triceps for anything other than size? Same goes for biceps


_
Other than size_ being a very important point.
I think you could get away with not training biceps. Pullups and stuff doesn't rely on them so much. 
However it's not uncommon to stall on bench because of tricep weakness. Throw in some dips, no need for anything else


----------



## gamber

hmm i started off with dumbell presses before i actually benched have you tried that yet?


----------



## UnderTheSign

EtherealEntity said:


> Not to say you couldn't, but I must say it would surprise me if you weren't using your back. Just felt I should say this as that's very dangerous and if you ever try it again, just watch what you're doing.
> 
> 
> _
> Other than size_ being a very important point.
> I think you could get away with not training biceps. Pullups and stuff doesn't rely on them so much.
> However it's not uncommon to stall on bench because of tricep weakness. Throw in some dips, no need for anything else


I think most powerlifters throw in some biceps for assistance but don't focus on it a lot. You could get away with not training them I guess but for overall balance and such I would.
Also,
Do Powerlifters Need To Work Biceps And Forearms? | Powerlifting Watch


----------



## Murmel

I need to start doing some ab work seriously I think. I almost never do it, and when I do, I half-ass it 
It's just so boring, and so exhausting.


----------



## Winspear

Murmel said:


> I need to start doing some ab work seriously I think. I almost never do it, and when I do, I half-ass it
> It's just so boring, and so exhausting.



So much this  I've tried so many times, but I honestly can't get any motivation whatsoever for anything without weights. That doesn't include weighted abs


----------



## ShadowAMD

EtherealEntity said:


> You should be lifting enough to complete your goal reps with good form with a gun held to your head, nothing more nothing less  As soon as you get one more rep, weight goes up.
> 
> Yeah bench isn't arms. It uses your triceps a bit to extend the elbow but the main movement is your chest contracting to pull your shoulder around to the front of your body.



Interesting to know, I'm more about toning than pure power.. So I go for extended reps.. So 600lbs on a leg press can go for about 50 reps on a bad day and 60Kg's on the arms I go in sets of 40..

If I was to to an 8 set rip probably triple the arms double the legs, (That's when I was fit years ago).. Now I have not a fudging clue and starting off light again, now I quit smoking..


----------



## Murmel

40 reps with 60kg on an arms excersise? I would like to know what this excersise is because that seems ridiculous 
600lbs leg press for 50 reps is also ridiculous.


----------



## Winspear

Regardless of the rep range, the effort should be the same like I said  The last rep should be your absolute last rep else you're not lifting heavy enough. 

But I will say, anything above 20 reps (I even want to say 15) is pointless and I've even heard dangerous.

And yep those weights are ridiculous, you must be curling with your back and leg pressing with your back, stop  Third the weight, third the reps, fix the form and go from there.


----------



## UnderTheSign

ShadowAMD said:


> Interesting to know, I'm more about toning than pure power.. So I go for extended reps.. So 600lbs on a leg press can go for about 50 reps on a bad day and 60Kg's on the arms I go in sets of 40..
> 
> If I was to to an 8 set rip probably triple the arms double the legs, (That's when I was fit years ago).. Now I have not a fudging clue and starting off light again, now I quit smoking..


I hate the word toning. "Toning" = increased muscle size, decreased body fat.
20+ reps aren't dangerous and I know a bunch of bodybuilders who love to do crazy numbers, especially for calves as they seem to be able to take a hellish beating.

Post up your workout routine if you have one, let us see what you do so we might be able to help you out. Right now IMO it just sounds like you're pretty clueless as to what to do.


----------



## Maniacal

60kg barbell curls for a set of 40 reps?


----------



## Winspear

Maniacal said:


> 60kg barbell curls for a set of 40 reps?


----------



## Maniacal

^ I see, so THAT'S who we are talking to.

I don't think Optimus Prime could curl 60 kilos for 40 reps.


----------



## UnderTheSign

I'm saddened by his lack of synthol'd forearms. I mean, what's a strong arm without a crusher grip and gorilla forearms?


----------



## Winspear

UnderTheSign said:


> I'm saddened by his lack of synthol'd forearms. I mean, what's a strong arm without a crusher grip and gorilla forearms?



He has an awesome tattoo on his forearm, doesn't need muscle


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

ugh synthol is literally the grossest thing ever


----------



## SkullCrusher

When i was 18 (im now 19) I used to be into my weightlifting. the gym I went to was quite rough and alot of drugs were changing hands. one day my friend bought a lot of dianabol steroids and gave some to me (at this point I was 6'2" and nearly 300lb, i wasnt really fat, I could run, sprint, bike 10 miles a day. but my legs were like tree trunks.) 

my calfs now are bigger than most peoples thighs. as yes I play rugby!.

any way i tried the dianabolics and they gave me a nose bleed for 3 days and I was angry at everything.

Im now in full time employment and as im sitting around all day i soon built the chub on so I now do cardio only and the improvement of live is something wholesale better.

But anyway kids dont do steroids and if you feel your aren't getting enough from weights. do cardio.


----------



## Uncreative123

lol........




Anyway, during my time off I set three different PRs:

365 Bench:




It's decline, but I don't flat bench anymore. I think I weighed in right at 230lbs there. The biggest I've been in awhile. Bulking for 5 more weeks, then cutting for 12 for that contest.


I don't really do deadlifts anymore either because of my shoulder instability. I've only done them twice in the last three months, so while the 455lbs I pulled was a PR, I didn't bother filming it. I know if I trained for them the same way I'm doing with bench and squat now I could easily surpass that.

Now that I've fixed my non-firing glutes and using a 5/3/1 type method, my squat numbers are on the rise. Doing that 3x a week has been phenomenal. 



Everything's coming up Milhouse.


----------



## UnderTheSign

How do you schedule your 5/3/1, do you just drop the deadlift day and make it 3 days instead 4?


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

I lift weights really hard three times a week, but I also have basketball practice daily and games 2 to 3 times a week. Does all the running inhibit strength and muscle growth? 
Trust me, we run a lot. Our average practice consists of 6-10 sets of lines at the start, depending on how our game went. 
And should i be eating a shit ton more now?


----------



## InfinityCollision

EtherealEntity said:


> So much this  I've tried so many times, but I honestly can't get any motivation whatsoever for anything without weights. That doesn't include weighted abs



What have you tried for your ab workouts? It doesn't have to be high-rep stuff that goes on forever. There's a ton of weighted and cable options for oblique/rotation exercises. Granted basic core exercises don't have as many options, but it's important to have a good core and it feels pretty damn good when you can do some of the tougher core exercises cleanly 

It's definitely exhausting, but I've never been bored during ab work.


----------



## Infamous Impact

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> I lift weights really hard three times a week, but I also have basketball practice daily and games 2 to 3 times a week. Does all the running inhibit strength and muscle growth?
> Trust me, we run a lot. Our average practice consists of 6-10 sets of lines at the start, depending on how our game went.
> And should i be eating a shit ton more now?


Cardio doesn't affect your gains. Just eat more to make up for the burned calories so you stay at a surplus. That might not necessarily be easy, since even eating to maintain is a lot of work for me, but it's all for the gains.


----------



## Infamous Impact

Also, if ab work bores you, try and make it fun, and work towards a goal.

Try to master the handstand, the dragon flag, the human flag, and ab wheel rollouts. That will get you to a super strong core.


----------



## Uncreative123

Infamous Impact said:


> Cardio doesn't affect your gains. Just eat more to make up for the burned calories so you stay at a surplus. That might not necessarily be easy, since even eating to maintain is a lot of work for me, but it's all for the gains.





Cardio absolutely affects your gains. Especially in the amount he's talking and especially with only working out 3x a week.


----------



## InfinityCollision

Cardio is only going to impact your gains if it affects your calorie balance (eat more if necessary) or impacts your ability to lift. If you're getting some downtime between the two and not experiencing undue fatigue or overtraining then you're probably fine, there are plenty of people who lift and do cardio back-to-back. I'm not a fan of doing so personally, but that's a slightly different matter.



Infamous Impact said:


> Also, if ab work bores you, try and make it fun, and work towards a goal.
> 
> Try to master the handstand, the dragon flag, the human flag, and ab wheel rollouts. That will get you to a super strong core.



This. I'm working towards dragon flags, hanging leg raises, and hanging windshield wipers right now


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

What should i do to make up for it?


----------



## TRENCHLORD

Competitive basketball is much more than just a cardio activity.
If you're a "charlie hustle" type player (which is about all I ever was good at in b-ball),
then it turns into about a hundred mini-sprints per/hr.
It's an extremely draining sport and most high-school coaches go way overboard with running at practice which just ads to the glycogen and CNS and ATP depletion.

Amping up calories is a must, but I wouldn't expect to see signifigant weightroom gains during the thick of the season.
On the other hand, someone who was just starting out or hadn't been at it hard off season might see some gains in season.

My advice is to not aim for gains in season. Reserve your strength for the games and just do brief maintanence workouts for the next couple months (mostly heavy, very low rep, very low volume).
Once the season is over your bodyweight and mass will jump from the change.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Thanks Trenchlord, and I've been continually running hard for the last few months. Football season started in August and we only get a week break between it in basketball. We just run a lot more in basketball. I'm a starter and I run really hard all the time so i definitely will up the calories. I've gone up like 15 pounds on my squats in the last few months, so i can definitely see the correlation between running so much and gains now.


----------



## Alex6534

ugh, been trying to find a gym within reasonable distance that has a power rack, bench and barbell set with acceptable weights and it's just not happening . Everywhere is using this technogym crap. Anyone know of any good machine based workouts for bulking Looking to add maybe 5kg and cut back down


----------



## UnderTheSign

Alex6534 said:


> ugh, been trying to find a gym within reasonable distance that has a power rack, bench and barbell set with acceptable weights and it's just not happening . Everywhere is using this technogym crap. Anyone know of any good machine based workouts for bulking Looking to add maybe 5kg and cut back down


There's a machine substitute for pretty much every exercise. I'd take free weights over most but sometimes you just gotta work with what you have... Figure out a routine and just roll with it the same way you would if you had access to barbells and DBs. That and get proper diet.


----------



## ROB SILVER

Alex6534 said:


> ugh, been trying to find a gym within reasonable distance that has a power rack, bench and barbell set with acceptable weights and it's just not happening . Everywhere is using this technogym crap. Anyone know of any good machine based workouts for bulking Looking to add maybe 5kg and cut back down




I've always worked out at home with free weights. There's nothing really you can do on a machine that you can't do with free weights yourself.

The time saving was always a big factor for me as well. If I worked out for an hour, it took an hour, rather than an hour plus travel time etc both ways.

With a job a band and a girlfriend the saving was really helpful, and helped with the training, because you had less excuses to not do it.


----------



## Kodee_Kaos

Anybody here familiar with kettlebells? Thoughts?


----------



## Infamous Impact

Kodee_Kaos said:


> Anybody here familiar with kettlebells? Thoughts?


http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/li...462-anyone-else-getting-into-kettlebells.html


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Did 100 bodyweight deadlifts in ten mintues today. Fucking burned like hell.


----------



## Marv Attaxx

Had to start cardio again because my heart isn't strong enough and I have high blood pressure


----------



## Infamous Impact

I've had 3 workouts a day, 5-6 days a week, for the past 3 weeks for a different sport/event. I'm jealous of you guys.


----------



## Murmel

First 2 weeks of not being able to work out due to pulled teeth. Now, 1 week after the first workout after my teeth healed, I get cold as shit.

Gains, I don't have them.


----------



## JP Universe

Did a workout this morning on boxing day probably for the first time ever! Feel amazing now


----------



## Infamous Impact

JP Universe said:


> Did a workout this morning on boxing day probably for the first time ever! Feel amazing now


Enjoy the DOMS tomorrow


----------



## SammyKillChambers

Hey guys,

As part of my new year's resolution, and something I've been wanting to do for a LONG time, I'm going to be starting to go to the gym 6 days a week, 3 days for cardio, 3 weeks for weight training, all intertwined. I've been trying to find useful information on the internet, but to no avail. My goal is so that at the end of the year, I can be down to below 10% body fat, and have a lot more lean muscle.

Any suggested workouts/regimes?

Essentially, I want help finding out:

Roughly what nutrition I should take each day (Calories, Protein, Carbs and Fat)

Any supplements/vitamins/tablets that I may benefit from using

And if my idea is essentially ridiculous.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

Bodybuilding.com forum is a wealth of info that's a huge advantage we have these days over generations past.
Like any forum (even this one lol) there's plenty of BS to filter out, which can be hard when you're low on background foundational knowledge.
I was always a fan of Ironman magazine as far as the mag-rack goes.


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

SammyKillChambers said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> As part of my new year's resolution, and something I've been wanting to do for a LONG time, I'm going to be starting to go to the gym 6 days a week, 3 days for cardio, 3 weeks for weight training, all intertwined. I've been trying to find useful information on the internet, but to no avail. My goal is so that at the end of the year, I can be down to below 10% body fat, and have a lot more lean muscle.
> 
> Any suggested workouts/regimes?
> 
> Essentially, I want help finding out:
> 
> Roughly what nutrition I should take each day (Calories, Protein, Carbs and Fat)
> 
> Any supplements/vitamins/tablets that I may benefit from using
> 
> And if my idea is essentially ridiculous.



Your goals seem perfectly doable with dedication and good planning. Weight training workouts I'd recommend Starting Strength, read here; Starting Strength Wiki

Nutrition-wise, depending on your weight (you look fairly small and lean in your profile photo, which is a good starting point) I'd aim for about 2800 calories a day with about 1-1.5 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight, 1.5-2 grams of carbs/pound of bodyweight and about 0.5-1 grams of fats/pound of bodyweight per day. 

Supplements are NOT required or in any way necessary for gains, some are good help but nutrition and training are the fundamentals. If you wanted to go down that route I'd definitely recommend whey protein and perhaps look into simple stuff like standard multivitamins.

The MOST important thing is to research everything yourself, including all the stuff I just said. I've found that the key to size and strength gains (and why I've eclipsed many of my friends in that regard over the last year or so) is due to KNOWLEDGE of how training and nutrition work, what's useful and importantly what isn't, as opposed to just reading what some "bro" on the internet says (I've actually ended up reading a bunch of medical journals to find out about the benefits of certain foods bahahaha)

Best of luck man!


----------



## UnderTheSign

I wish I had done Starting Strenght instead of the random 3-day split the clueless gym guy made for me when I started out, hah. Starting out with SS is a good idea.

Captain is correct on nutrition and supps too. I'd suggest a good multi (I like Universal's Uni-Vite, a good dose of vitamins but not as expensive as Animal Pak) and whey. In the UK, I think ON Gold is the way to go cost/quality wise, or order online from Bulkpowders or MyProtein, both are UK-based.


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

Myprotein is ace, loads of high quality supps for low prices, I can get a 2.2kg bag of True Whey (actually one of their more expensive whey products) for about £32, and 500g of creapure for £12.99


----------



## peldikuneptun

Captain Shoggoth said:


> Supplements are NOT required or in any way necessary for gains, some are good help but nutrition and training are the fundamentals. If you wanted to go down that route I'd definitely recommend whey protein and perhaps look into simple stuff like standard multivitamins.



This. 
I remember seeing a quote on bb.com that went something like "you can't out-supplement a bad diet". The multivitamins and whey protein are pretty much everything one would need when starting a weight training regimen.


----------



## Evergrey

SammyKillChambers said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> As part of my new year's resolution, and something I've been wanting to do for a LONG time, I'm going to be starting to go to the gym 6 days a week, 3 days for cardio, 3 weeks for weight training, all intertwined. I've been trying to find useful information on the internet, but to no avail. My goal is so that at the end of the year, I can be down to below 10% body fat, and have a lot more lean muscle.
> 
> Any suggested workouts/regimes?
> 
> Essentially, I want help finding out:
> 
> Roughly what nutrition I should take each day (Calories, Protein, Carbs and Fat)
> 
> Any supplements/vitamins/tablets that I may benefit from using
> 
> And if my idea is essentially ridiculous.



Did u check Stickys?
Lifestyle, Health, Fitness & Food - Sevenstring.org


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Rep set for today was 10-8-6 and on squat it was 275, 295, and 315. 
My glutes feel all torn up and my legs were super shaky afterwards.  
I am not looking forward to running lines at basketball practice tonight.


----------



## Infamous Impact

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> Rep set for today was 10-8-6 and on squat it was 275, 295, and 315.
> My glutes feel all torn up and my legs were super shaky afterwards.
> I am not looking forward to running lines at basketball practice tonight.


I feel your pain. I did front squats today and later had 400m repeats. All I can say is foam roll out your legs before practice like a madman.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Fuck the 400m so hard.


----------



## Infamous Impact

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> Fuck the 400m so hard.


It's my favorite event 
I'm one of those freaks that don't hit a wall and can die on the ground after instead of during the race, or whatever I'm doing.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

Had to run first leg of 4x4 as a sophmore for just one meet and decided to put the pressure on everyone sense I was an OK sprinter.
I went 23.2 for my split and finished at 57.5 lol. Must have been a biggass brick wall somewhere.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

The last 100m of my 400 always kills me.  I've managed a 55 for my fastest. I think it's mainly cuz i'm never in shape during track season. Doesn't make much sense huh?


----------



## TRENCHLORD

Most high schools have the rubber tracks now, even here in these smaller towns, but it was all cinders around here back then. We only had a few outdoors a yr on rubber so your chances were limited to get PRs or records. Times were like almost a second better per 100m, or at least 3 seconds/quarter mile. Some cinder tracks were far better than others, just depended if the local school gave a shit.
Long Jumping on those damned asphalt and blacktop runways off some cracking old board that was sticking up a half inch out of the ground lol.
I jumped far better from a painted line on the rubber.
Bitching about how hard we had it back in the old days complete., almost


----------



## soliloquy

peldikuneptun said:


> This.
> I remember seeing a quote on bb.com that went something like "you can't out-supplement a bad diet". The multivitamins and whey protein are pretty much everything one would need when starting a weight training regimen.




i'd add omega 3, 6 and 9 supplement to them too. more so if you're in a country that has fairly cold winters. without them, i start feeling like i'm an X-men and i can sense storms coming for a day or two before hand(pretty useless power to have...). they also help when i'm doing heavy lifting work







i just started going to the gym again after i was bed ridden since middle of december. my goal for 2013 is to try pushing 150 lbs for bench press (my chest is the weakest muscle on my body, proportion wise). 

though my biggest problem i have is when i'm squatting. if i'm using a leg-press, then i can easily do about 300ish lbs with 5 sets of 3-8 reps. however, if i'm doing a barbell squat, my upper spine/shoulder area cant take anything more than 155, and it annoys me. i rather do free weights. i guess i can do the same thing with dumbells, which i usually prefer over all other type of weights.


and my wrist strength usually fails me during pull ups and dead lifts well before my body has given up on that exercise... 

hopefully 2013 will be a good year for me in that regard


----------



## Murmel

So apparently one of the 2 bars in my gym is 3kg lighter than the other. I noticed it yesterday while warming up for my deadlift.

Explains why I can't load as much on my bench some days


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

anybody got any tips for DOMS?

On Monday a friend and I sorta dared each other and we did 1,001 standing calf raises-I'm having a lot of trouble walking and fully extending my legs, the pain is so bad

This wasn't training, mind, we're just idiots.


----------



## Infamous Impact

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> The last 100m of my 400 always kills me.  I've managed a 55 for my fastest. I think it's mainly cuz i'm never in shape during track season. Doesn't make much sense huh?


No, it makes a ton of sense. I do a ton of distance running on top of my track workouts and lifting. Planning proper recovery is a bitch, but the 400 is really something you need to be in top shape for to be competitive at.



TRENCHLORD said:


> Most high schools have the rubber tracks now, even here in these smaller towns, but it was all cinders around here back then. We only had a few outdoors a yr on rubber so your chances were limited to get PRs or records. Times were like almost a second better per 100m, or at least 3 seconds/quarter mile. Some cinder tracks were far better than others, just depended if the local school gave a shit.
> Long Jumping on those damned asphalt and blacktop runways off some cracking old board that was sticking up a half inch out of the ground lol.
> I jumped far better from a painted line on the rubber.
> Bitching about how hard we had it back in the old days complete., almost


 People who ran at my school before we got a rubber track come back and complain about how easy we have it.



soliloquy said:


> i'd add omega 3, 6 and 9 supplement to them too. more so if you're in a country that has fairly cold winters. without them, i start feeling like i'm an X-men and i can sense storms coming for a day or two before hand(pretty useless power to have...). they also help when i'm doing heavy lifting work
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i just started going to the gym again after i was bed ridden since middle of december. my goal for 2013 is to try pushing 150 lbs for bench press (my chest is the weakest muscle on my body, proportion wise).
> 
> though my biggest problem i have is when i'm squatting. if i'm using a leg-press, then i can easily do about 300ish lbs with 5 sets of 3-8 reps. however, if i'm doing a barbell squat, my upper spine/shoulder area cant take anything more than 155, and it annoys me. i rather do free weights. i guess i can do the same thing with dumbells, which i usually prefer over all other type of weights.
> 
> 
> and my wrist strength usually fails me during pull ups and dead lifts well before my body has given up on that exercise...
> 
> hopefully 2013 will be a good year for me in that regard


Add rows to build upper back thickness. Strengthening your back and core will really help your body stabilize in the squat. If your wrists hurt from doing so much pulling, do front squats with a Olympic style rack. They strengthen your spine by forcing you to be vertical during the lift, otherwise the bar will fall out of the rack you create.



Captain Shoggoth said:


> anybody got any tips for DOMS?
> 
> On Monday a friend and I sorta dared each other and we did 1,001 standing calf raises-I'm having a lot of trouble walking and fully extending my legs, the pain is so bad
> 
> This wasn't training, mind, we're just idiots.


Water, protein, foam rolling, rest, ibuprofen, and walk down the stairs backwards.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

I just meant the not being in shape during track doesn't make sense.


----------



## Stealthdjentstic

The trick to solid gains is to trenn hard and eat clenn


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Go home Mehtab, you're drunk.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> I just meant the not being in shape during track doesn't make sense.


 
Does to me because our coach was really cool and believed (with the one exception of conference meet) that track was basically an individual sport in which the athlete should choose their own events .

Needless to say, I chose field events only (LJ, TJ, disc) about 95% of the meets, so my cardio went downhill during track season. Much different than having some asshole yelling "on the line!!!!, lets go lets go!!!!!, on the line!!!, on the line!!!!"


----------



## Infamous Impact

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> I just meant the not being in shape during track doesn't make sense.


You won't believe how much downhill my school's team gotten then. 
It's literally half a handful of people carrying the team now. My coach is letting fatties in now, that waddle to a 2 minute 500m.


----------



## Rook

In you guys' opinions, what's the best way to build up a pull up? Its so weird, I'm fit, decently strong, I can chin all day long - not that it's relevant  - but I can barely do one pull up  Is it just a case of keep doing them? 

Also, I'd like your views on something that annoyed me the other day. My buddy and I were gyming, like you do, getting through some deadlifts. Two guys walk in looking a bit like they got something to prove (hoods up and the like) - my gym's a weight-lifter's gym (I'm skinny as shit) but everyone's really chilled, I don't feel out of place - but they aren't big guys at all. They go to a different matt behind us and set up for some deads themselves, this dude has about 150lbs on the bar, does literally the worst formed deadlift I've ever seen basically screaming the whole way up, then just drops this damn thing on the floor, his friend (who was also wearing a dipping belt, hood up) steps in and does basically the exact same thing. I turn to my friend for a supportive 'wtf are they doing' from him and he's like 'nah it's all part of the fun, it's sound of the weight hitting the floor, so good'

....what?

Am I being up tight or is the noise thing really annoying? I mean I give it a little squeak and a grunt hear and there and sometimes you can't help but make a noise when putting the weights down, but shouting and throwing them around? Really?

/rant

Serious question about the pull ups though.


----------



## soliloquy

/\ i'll add to that rant.
i'm getting really annoyed with 'roaches. not actual bugs in the gym. just annoying people who joined the gym january 1st to keep up with their resolution, and who usually fizzle out by february. 

they have no gym etiquette of any sort. if 'm doing dumbell flys/bench press, i usually rest my weights on my knee before i roll onto the bench. so i'm sitting down on MY bench that i've already done a few sets on, and my sweat is on it. i take a seat, about to roll onto the bench when one of the roaches just sits where my head should be resting. and wont move until i sort of grunt at him, making him realize he's sitting where he shouldn't be.

to make it even more annoying, you are lying down, your weights in your hands, and these roaches just come and stand in the field where your arms are supposed to move, thus preventing you from working out.



the worst in leg press. in my gym, most heavy lifters/pushers usually lug around about 5-600lbs on the leg press with proper form. roaches take ALL the 45lbs plates from the gym, load it up on the leg press that tops the weight to about 750(thus preventing other people from working out), decide its not enough, so ask their friends to sit on the top of the leg press, topping the weight to 1020ish lbs. the way they do the exerciser, they BARLEY bend their knee. they may bend their knee about 10 degrees to full extension, then bring it back to 10 degrees. 

i'd be impressed if they can do anything more than 100lbs with proper form.

i'm not that strong, nor that big, but i've got perfect form and i'm doing about 275lbs. and they look at me funny coz of that. 

stupid roaches! cant wait till february when they fizzle out...


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Damn i'm glad I don't have that problem. Regarding the pullup, yeah it's just a matter of doing em really. 
I guess I am lucky, as most of the kids in my high school are pretty strong and gym educated. There's only about 20 guys (B1 school) and almost everyone can bench press 150+ pounds with good form and squat a fair amount to parallel.


----------



## JP Universe

The best thing about doing workouts at home is that you don't have any 'roaches' to worry about and you can concentrate on your own exercise with your own music.

I'm actually more motivated at home than the gym


----------



## UnderTheSign

My gym has only gotten more empty after New Year's Eve, no clue where all the resolutioners went... But it's pretty good like this. Haven't seen a lot of clueless idiots lately either.

Also, to anyone looking for a hypertrophy focused split... I started this two weeks ago and it's insane. After coming off 5/3/1 I wanted a change and rolled with this. The pumps are great and the negatives are grueling and humbling.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiSWGagg7IU


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

JP Universe said:


> The best thing about doing workouts at home is that you don't have any 'roaches' to worry about and you can concentrate on your own exercise with your own music.
> 
> I'm actually more motivated at home than the gym



This x infinity.

as I once read on either the bb.com forums or a youtube comment concerning Planet Fatness lol

"going to a gym=sissy crap
home gym=man law"


Switching up training and going back to the clean bulk diet I had around this time last year. My 3-year transformation overview this summer will be interesting


----------



## soliloquy

UnderTheSign said:


> My gym has only gotten more empty after New Year's Eve, no clue where all the resolutioners went... But it's pretty good like this. Haven't seen a lot of clueless idiots lately either.
> 
> Also, to anyone looking for a hypertrophy focused split... I started this two weeks ago and it's insane. After coming off 5/3/1 I wanted a change and rolled with this. The pumps are great and the negatives are grueling and humbling.




right now i'm trying the 5x5. 
i'll try this after that. looks interesting. and i get annoyed with partners. moreso if they start talking to me. i dont know why i become so anti-social in the gym. you talk to me, and i will try biting your head off

and what do you mean by 5/3/1? 




JP Universe said:


> The best thing about doing workouts at home is that you don't have any 'roaches' to worry about and you can concentrate on your own exercise with your own music.
> 
> I'm actually more motivated at home than the gym



i used to work out at home. i got annoyed and lost motivation. annoyed because i had about 450lbs in plates. each and every time i was doing drop sets, i had to change the weights and it pissed me off. i rather just pick up weights and not wait around them. and i lost motivation as it was my basement, and everything just started looking the same. all my weights were sitting around one bench, thus VERY little moving around. plus, poor lighting...


----------



## m3l-mrq3z

After giving the idea much thought, I finally registered for a membership at a gym in the town I live in. I went there 4 times this week and I feel great about myself. I basically want to burn the fat I've accumulated during the last years. Muscle definition is definitely a goal of mine, too.


----------



## UnderTheSign

soliloquy said:


> right now i'm trying the 5x5.
> i'll try this after that. looks interesting. and i get annoyed with partners. moreso if they start talking to me. i dont know why i become so anti-social in the gym. you talk to me, and i will try biting your head off
> 
> and what do you mean by 5/3/1?


5/3/1 is a training template designed by Jim Wendler. It's a 4 day/week split focused on strenght. For compounds, you do 3x5 one week, 3x3 the next and 1x5, 1x3, 1x1 the third. Fourth week is a deload week though I sometimes turned it into a 3x3 week because I only deloaded once every 8 weeks.
It's great and there are a lot of calculators and different templates for it depending on your goals.
T NATION | How to Build Pure Strength
Calculator - I use and like Strength Standards


----------



## jon66

UnderTheSign said:


> 5/3/1 is a training template designed by Jim Wendler. It's a 4 day/week split focused on strenght. For compounds, you do 3x5 one week, 3x3 the next and 1x5, 1x3, 1x1 the third. Fourth week is a deload week though I sometimes turned it into a 3x3 week because I only deloaded once every 8 weeks.
> It's great and there are a lot of calculators and different templates for it depending on your goals.
> T NATION | How to Build Pure Strength
> Calculator - I use and like Strength Standards



Just to add to ^^ - on the last work set of each day on the main lift, you perform as many reps as possible, while not sacrificing form/safety. So for example on the 3x5 day, you might do 5 reps, 5 reps, and 9 reps on your last set. Over time as the weights increase, and as you're working closer and closer to your actual maxes, the # of reps you're able to do will decrease. That's another reason it's important to start slightly below your current maxes, allowing yourself some progress without stalling too quickly.

I've been using the 531 template for the past 3 months. (I'm currently in my 3rd cycle/month) I love the simplicity of the program. I can go into the gym no matter what the day is and know exactly what I have to do work-wise. My thinking is that if I can at least nail the required reps/sets on those given exercises and keep progressing month after month, I'll have to get getting stronger. Then depending on what mood I'm in or how much time I have to dedicate on a particular to training I can do more or less assistance work, while still focusing and tracking the main lift.


----------



## UnderTheSign

jon66 said:


> Just to add to ^^ - on the last work set of each day on the main lift, you perform as many reps as possible, while not sacrificing form/safety. So for example on the 3x5 day, you might do 5 reps, 5 reps, and 9 reps on your last set. Over time as the weights increase, and as you're working closer and closer to your actual maxes, the # of reps you're able to do will decrease. That's another reason it's important to start slightly below your current maxes, allowing yourself some progress without stalling too quickly.
> 
> I've been using the 531 template for the past 3 months. (I'm currently in my 3rd cycle/month) I love the simplicity of the program. I can go into the gym no matter what the day is and know exactly what I have to do work-wise. My thinking is that if I can at least nail the required reps/sets on those given exercises and keep progressing month after month, I'll have to get getting stronger. Then depending on what mood I'm in or how much time I have to dedicate on a particular to training I can do more or less assistance work, while still focusing and tracking the main lift.


Yeah. I messed up after the first two/three months, got confident, went too heavy and stalled. I followed the BBB template though so I only did the required reps on the last set like Wendler advises.


----------



## soliloquy

what do you guys do for breathing?
if i'm pulling, as i bring the weight closer to me, i breath out
if i'm pushing, as i take the weights further from me, i breath in

i was eaves dropping a personal trainer telling his client the other way around 

:S


----------



## Infamous Impact

soliloquy said:


> what do you guys do for breathing?
> if i'm pulling, as i bring the weight closer to me, i breath out
> if i'm pushing, as i take the weights further from me, i breath in
> 
> i was eaves dropping a personal trainer telling his client the other way around
> 
> :S


Breathe in on the negatives, valsalva/breathe out on the concentric. By valsalva I don't literally mean don't let any air out, I mean force the air to stay in to keep tight.


----------



## UnderTheSign

soliloquy said:


> what do you guys do for breathing?
> if i'm pulling, as i bring the weight closer to me, i breath out
> if i'm pushing, as i take the weights further from me, i breath in
> 
> i was eaves dropping a personal trainer telling his client the other way around
> 
> :S


That's why you don't listen to most personal trainers.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

On most lifts you'll want to wait until you break the sticking point before exhaling/blowing out. It's basically a natural thing with decent weight.
I've seen people breath opposite on pulls, but they're only able to do it wrong because they're doing cable rows with 70 pounds.


----------



## Infamous Impact

TRENCHLORD said:


> On most lifts you'll want to wait until you break the sticking point before exhaling/blowing out. It's basically a natural thing with decent weight.
> I've seen people breath opposite on pulls, but they're only able to do it wrong because they're doing cable rows with 70 pounds.


This is exactly what happens when girls in my school are in the weight room, but with 40 pounds on the lat pulldown right after because the 55 pound cable row was too heavy.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

Exactly ^^. Though that is one thing I miss about the gym (hot chicks, not their lifting form).

Where I used to lift over in Effignham there was a tiny hot girl who was competing in fitness comps. It was very evident that she loved the attention because she would by the end of her workout be down to her competition outfit all sweaty and posing it up right there in front of us (literally a couple yards). That was always a great time to just have a seat and 'rest" for a few minutes.
Then again that's not a sport for a shy girl to begin with lol.


----------



## Fiction

And if they're not hot little girls, just do as Barney does. Invest.

I've Been going to the gym now for 3-4 months, basically been taking it fairly easy and working on form firstly, been showing some improvements and have gained a little bit more fat than muscle 

So I'm thinking of upping the cardio work, and dropping calories just until I can hit my goal of 70kgs, currently 79.5. (170lbs) And than starting a 'bulk' as you lifters say. I'm basically trying to tone up and slim down, what's the est way to go about this as a 6' endo/meso
Or will my body just not allow it?

And you don't need to write a huge book, you can if you want but if you know any good books or articles that would be great, I'll read it all!


----------



## TRENCHLORD

It can be done, and fairly quickly if the calories and macros are in check.
Diets can be stifeling to the metabolism after a time, so caloric rotations can be helpful to keep your metabolic rate maxed out.
Remember that more muscle = more calories burned at rest (and especially during activity) so don't get to caught up on the scale reading.


----------



## Fiction

Awesome, Happy to hear it can be done at least! I've seen the book 'Starting Strength' mentioned quite a bit, is it a broad book or does it simply focus on gain and bulk cycles for power lifters, or can it all be applied to whichever build the person is after.


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

I consider it a beginner's guide to building your base strength, regardless of the physique you ultimately want


----------



## UnderTheSign

I was just going through my 2012 pictures and found this. Progress from early February 2012 to late December 2012. Aside from the obvious better pose, I've added some good thickness, especially to my back. Gained ~20lbs, most of which went to my legs (I finally look like a regular person instead of a stick figure), back and unfortunately, gut. Not bad for a mediocre all over the place diet (wouldn't even dare call it a dirty bulk...) and a powerlifting routine for the past 5 months. Makes me wonder about the progress I'd make on a proper diet.


----------



## Murmel

Ugh, haven't been able to lift for 2cweeks due to illness. And my eating has been way too little so I'm gonna be super weak when I get back on tuesday


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

I hear you man, I've been sick with flu's for two weeks as well. Already lost like 6 pounds


----------



## Atomshipped

Can anyone please help a little with diet? I'm in high school and have a fairly decent metabolism. I started working out hard at home in August and started at the gym last week. I'm definitely seeing incredible improvement in strength and appearance, but I'm a little confused. I eat very healthily now and have cut out pretty much all the junk food (not that I was fat before). I eat less, but more often. Tons of protein, more fruit and yogurt etc all the standard stuff. Protein shake right after working out. I don't know how much I should be eating. There are some who swear by eating a ton of calories (2500-3500), and others who say you need to eat less (~1500-1800?). It makes sense that the more you eat the more muscle you put on, even if that means some fat coming with it. My goal is to continue muscle and strength gains while dropping enough body fat for those sexy abs to show without having to do the strange flex/suck motion you probably can relate to. I have a basic understanding of the whole bulking and cutting thing, and although I probably won't be taking it to either extreme, I'm hoping to start a very rudimentary "cut" by continuing to work out in the gym and eat the same but add Volleyball to everything (I play for my school). Again, to clarify, I'm not by any means "fat" fat, just trying to drop the percent a little in order to increase definition.

Also one other thing I was wondering was about a "schedule" basically. At home I was rotating between different upper body workouts (never the same muscles two days in a row) with maybe two leg workouts a week. At the gym I've been doing something like this (as I've heard it's the best and is working well so far):

Day 1: Chest -> Triceps
Day 2: Back -> Traps -> Biceps -> Brachs -> Wrists 
Day 3: Legs (all parts) and/or cardio, finishing with abs
Repeat until Arnold status

I'm not sure about how to fit this in with Volleyball playing or how to effectively add shoulders in. I've figured that I'll burn many more calories due to volleyball, which is obviously a bonus. Are there certain muscles I should not do at all, less often, or only on weekends after a week of volleyball? For shoulders, I'm not positive on how to incorporate them. It seems logical to work them on "Day 1" but it seems like many of the compound machines/movements I've done also work shoulders (although the machines only label rear shoulders). Can I safely work them on chest/triceps day without having progress slowed by indirectly working them the next day as well? Shoulders have come naturally to me so far so I'm wondering if I should leave them out entirely and just indirectly work them through the standard workouts and volleyball.

Next question: Many of the chest and back machines work (indirectly or not) triceps and biceps, respectively. So far I've been spending about 20-25 minutes on chest and back on each of their respective days before going in to around 10-15 minutes of triceps and biceps (once again, respectively). Is more or less necessary? Does it matter; am I going to overwork them? I found after that after the back workout, heavier and slower lifts worked better for biceps than spending more time over all with less weight and more reps (although I don't have enough experience to determine the consistency of that) as I had already indirectly worked them through many of the back machines. I'm still kind of lost on what to do with triceps; I'll usually do several supersets of running through the two tricep machines and some cable stuff and call it a day. I guess I'm too impatient to rest longer and use more weight haha.

Well since I'm here I'll ask a simple one this time: how much time on wrists is really necessary? They're usually pretty roasted after deadlifts biceps, and brachs so I've only been doing two sets or so just as I finish. My wrists have been improving well but I still want a stronger grip so I can deadlift with more weight. Basically I just need confirmation that there's nothing different I should be doing for this.

I would greatly appreciate it if anyone can help!


----------



## UnderTheSign

Didn't really read your post but losing fat - calorie deficit. Gaining muscle - calorie surplus. Calculate your daily requirements and go from there.
Could you post a detailed example of your routine? "25 minutes on back" means fuck all, in that time you could do a minimal amount of 5 rep sets with high rest or a load of 8-15 rep sets with minimal rest.


----------



## Atomshipped

Thanks! I'll keep that in mind. 
I don't have a set routine but this closely resembles what I've been doing for each body part. In most cases I don't rest very long between a majority of exercises. Everything's in order.

Chest:
Iso-Lateral Super Incline Press Machine/Iso-Lateral Decline Press Machine (superset together; eight reps for each machine in one superset, two supersets) 
Dumbbell Chest Press (one set, ten reps)
Pectoral Fly Machine (superset with eight pushups; eight reps for each, two supersets)
Chest Press Machine (one set, eight reps)
Incline Chest Press Machine (two sets, eight reps)

Triceps:
Tricep Press Machine (ten reps)
Tricep Extension Machine (eight reps)
Tricep Cable Pushdowns (eight reps)
(Usually superset these three together in different orders. Three to four supersets overall. I should probably be resting longer and increasing weight instead.)

Back:
Iso-Lateral Low Row Machine (two sets, eight reps)
Lat Pulldown Machine (two sets, eight reps)
Iso-Lateral High Row Machine (two sets, eight reps)
Lat Pulldown Machine (one set, eight reps)
Deadlifts (three sets, eight reps)
Back Extension Machine (two sets, twelve reps)

Traps: 
Dumbell Shrugs (two sets, twelve reps per set)

Biceps:
Alternating Dumbbell Bicep Curls (one set, ten reps each arm)
Bicep Curl Machine (three sets,
Barbell Bicep Curls (two sets, eight reps, pauses at the peak of the motion and very slow negatives)
Preacher Curl Machine (two sets, eight reps)

Brachs: 
Hammer Curls/Nipple Curls (superset together; eight reps for each in one superset, three supersets)

Forearms:
Forearm Dumbbell Curls (one set, fifteen reps per arm)
Farmer's Walk (two sets, until failure)

Legs (this probably needs the most work):
Leg Extension Machine (two sets, twelve reps)
Leg Curl Machine (two sets, ten reps)
Assisted Squat Machine (three sets, eight reps)
Leg Press Machine (two sets, ten reps)
Super Horizontal Calf Machine (two sets, ten reps)
Calf Extension Machine (two sets, ten reps)
Hip Adduction Machine/Hip Abduction Machine (superset together; twelve reps for each machine in one superset, two supersets)


So yeah there's probably plenty of stuff to fix haha. I'm trying to take advantage of the machines as before last week everything I'd done since beginning was using free weights. I still was making huge progress but overall I can do a lot more with machines. I usually try and add some dynamics to arm and chest workouts by doing drop sets and using very slow negatives for a certain amount of reps per set to increase that wonderful burning sensation. There you go!


----------



## Infamous Impact

^ You can replace a ton of stuff above with heavy compounds and shorten your workouts by a lot.


----------



## UnderTheSign

That looks super random, who put that together? And what do you mean by "I can do a lot more with machines?" More weight? that's all cool but machine weight means fuck all.
Based on a 3-day split (I assume you're doing mon/wed/fri, whatever, at least getting enough rest?), I'd roll with something like this. You don't seem very experienced yet so I wouldn't bother with drop sets/supersets/negatives yet. If you do, incorporate them wisely (ion your last few sets is my preference)

Chest/tris
Bench press 3x8
Incline bench 3x8
Flyes 3x8
Skullcrushers 3x8
Dips 3x8
V-bar pushdowns 3x8 or 2x12

Back/bis
Pullups/machine pulldowns 3x8
Seated cable rows 3x8
BB/DB rows 3x8
Deadlifts 3x5-8
Barbell curls 3x8
Concentration curls 3x8
(whatever type of curl works here)
Forearm curls 3x8 or 2x12

Legs/shoulders (train them goddamn delts)
Squats 3x8
Leg press 3x8
Leg curls 3x8
Calve raises 3x8 
Shoulder press 3x8
(seated, standing, barbell, dumbbell, doesn't really matter. I prefer seated DB for delt focus)
Side laterals 3x8
Front laterals 3x8

I threw in the shoulders with legs because I see no other option to train them. Personally I much prefer a 4-day split because I can mix up everything much easier. The 3x8 thing is yet again just a personal preference and something a lot of guys I know dig a lot. Rep range IMO depends a lot on preference, EtherealEntity on here says he made his best gains on sets of 6 reps (which allows for heavier weight) and a lot of guys are fond of 10 or 12 reps as well.

Like Infamous said, drop some of the machine rubbish and do good ol' compounds. Drop more of the machine stuff overall. Choose 2-4 exercises per bodypart (on HRT, I do 3 exercises for larger bodypart like chest/shoulders/back/legs and 2 for smaller ones) and roll with it. Rest time depends a lot on preference as well and I like to keep it short, 60-90 seconds.


----------



## Alex6534

Starting my first proper lifting routine, spent 2012 cutting from 107kg to 75kg with isolation machines and a lot of cardio, result = skinny fat . Started All Pro's beginner routine last week and it seems to be going well, started with just the bar to get my form etc down. Hoping to do a nice lean bulk until mid-end of June then cut during July. Only looking to bulk to just over 80kg, then cut down.


----------



## Atomshipped

Infamous Impact said:


> ^ You can replace a ton of stuff above with heavy compounds and shorten your workouts by a lot.


I'll look into that! Sounds like a good route.


UnderTheSign said:


> That looks super random, who put that together? And what do you mean by "I can do a lot more with machines?" More weight? that's all cool but machine weight means fuck all.
> Based on a 3-day split (I assume you're doing mon/wed/fri, whatever, at least getting enough rest?), I'd roll with something like this. You don't seem very experienced yet so I wouldn't bother with drop sets/supersets/negatives yet. If you do, incorporate them wisely (ion your last few sets is my preference)
> 
> ...
> 
> I threw in the shoulders with legs because I see no other option to train them. Personally I much prefer a 4-day split because I can mix up everything much easier. The 3x8 thing is yet again just a personal preference and something a lot of guys I know dig a lot. Rep range IMO depends a lot on preference, EtherealEntity on here says he made his best gains on sets of 6 reps (which allows for heavier weight) and a lot of guys are fond of 10 or 12 reps as well.
> 
> Like Infamous said, drop some of the machine rubbish and do good ol' compounds. Drop more of the machine stuff overall. Choose 2-4 exercises per bodypart (on HRT, I do 3 exercises for larger bodypart like chest/shoulders/back/legs and 2 for smaller ones) and roll with it. Rest time depends a lot on preference as well and I like to keep it short, 60-90 seconds.


Yep it is kind of a random routine I guess haha  That's just what I tried last week; I haven't had the experience and don't have the knowledge to refine it much more. I will definitely be sure to try out this kind of routine, thank you!

About the machine comment... I've found now that some machines are definitely more effective than others. Cable equipment (such as for the tricep pushdowns and cable rows) is extremely helpful so far. Overall I just meant to say it's easier and more efficient to train certain body parts with machines and they're also much more practical than what I have at home. Everything's more practical at the gym except having to drive 5 mins to get there lol.

I've always worked out 4-6 days a week (usually 5, rarely 4). Once I got the gym membership I started going every day except Sunday, running through the 3-day split twice a week. I don't think there's anything wrong with that as I'm almost never sore (although I think that soreness does not directly relate to muscle recovery). For rest, 72 hours per muscle group was more than I was used to, but with more efficient workouts at the gym instead of home it seemed like the right amount. I think due to a combination of things a 4-day split once a week seems the most viable right now as I don't have as much time and can't go every day. A more effective workout routine combined with more weight means to me that the extra rest won't hurt and I'll still be able to spend a decent amount of time working out considering I'll also be playing 1.5-3 hours of volleyball 3-5 days a week.

It seems like 3x8 is a good place to start. I'll try resting a little longer and can't wait to use more weight haha. Compounds sound great! Deadlifts have to be one of my favorite exercises as well. I have a better idea of which machines are worth my time now and will get rid of the other ones. Before any of that though I'll try out exactly what you suggested for sure and see how it works. Going to look up a 4-day split as well and depending on what I can do during the week go back and forth between a 3-day and a 4-day. Thanks a bunch for the help!


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

For a guy that lifts a lot of weights, I sure get sore when I do a lot of lunges.


----------



## UnderTheSign

Atomshipped said:


> I'll look into that! Sounds like a good route.
> 
> Yep it is kind of a random routine I guess haha  That's just what I tried last week; I haven't had the experience and don't have the knowledge to refine it much more. I will definitely be sure to try out this kind of routine, thank you!
> 
> About the machine comment... I've found now that some machines are definitely more effective than others. Cable equipment (such as for the tricep pushdowns and cable rows) is extremely helpful so far. Overall I just meant to say it's easier and more efficient to train certain body parts with machines and they're also much more practical than what I have at home. Everything's more practical at the gym except having to drive 5 mins to get there lol.
> 
> I've always worked out 4-6 days a week (usually 5, rarely 4). Once I got the gym membership I started going every day except Sunday, running through the 3-day split twice a week. I don't think there's anything wrong with that as I'm almost never sore (although I think that soreness does not directly relate to muscle recovery). For rest, 72 hours per muscle group was more than I was used to, but with more efficient workouts at the gym instead of home it seemed like the right amount. I think due to a combination of things a 4-day split once a week seems the most viable right now as I don't have as much time and can't go every day. A more effective workout routine combined with more weight means to me that the extra rest won't hurt and I'll still be able to spend a decent amount of time working out considering I'll also be playing 1.5-3 hours of volleyball 3-5 days a week.
> 
> It seems like 3x8 is a good place to start. I'll try resting a little longer and can't wait to use more weight haha. Compounds sound great! Deadlifts have to be one of my favorite exercises as well. I have a better idea of which machines are worth my time now and will get rid of the other ones. Before any of that though I'll try out exactly what you suggested for sure and see how it works. Going to look up a 4-day split as well and depending on what I can do during the week go back and forth between a 3-day and a 4-day. Thanks a bunch for the help!


A 3-day split is supposed to be run ONCE a week. If you're not sore, you're probably not working that hard. If you want to lift 6x a week, get a 6 week split instead.
As for the machines, drop most of the machine stuff and replace them with db/bb versions. It'll help working stabilizing muscles a lot more.

When on a 4-day split, I'd either split it up powerlifing style (bench/squat/deads/overhead press) or something like this. I really liked training biceps with chest instead of triceps.
Day 1: chest/bis
Day 2: legs (quads/hams)
Day 3: off
Day 4: Back/calves
Day 5: Shoulders/tris
Day 6: off
Day 7: off

Could switch day 5 and day 6 up too, helps recover you from the pounding deadlifting gives your body.


----------



## Atomshipped

UnderTheSign said:


> A 3-day split is supposed to be run ONCE a week. If you're not sore, you're probably not working that hard. If you want to lift 6x a week, get a 6 week split instead.
> As for the machines, drop most of the machine stuff and replace them with db/bb versions. It'll help working stabilizing muscles a lot more.
> 
> When on a 4-day split, I'd either split it up powerlifing style (bench/squat/deads/overhead press) or something like this. I really liked training biceps with chest instead of triceps.
> Day 1: chest/bis
> Day 2: legs (quads/hams)
> Day 3: off
> Day 4: Back/calves
> Day 5: Shoulders/tris
> Day 6: off
> Day 7: off
> 
> Could switch day 5 and day 6 up too, helps recover you from the pounding deadlifting gives your body.


Oh I see now haha guess I was doing it wrong! I know what you're saying about machines stuff versus freeweight stuff; I'll definitely incorporate many more freeweight exercises instead. It just makes sense, lol.

Powerlifting style sounds like a bunch of fun. Always loved the idea of powerlifting (based on what I know). I might try and switch it up every week; going back and forth. It seems like it would be very beneficial towards sports as well since (as far as I know, again) it builds functional muscle for natural movements. I was watching a video with Mike O'Hearn and he basically said he's a powerlifter that does bodybuilding on the side. Obviously I'm impossibly far from being like him but I like that and want to give it a go lol.

All I'm left wondering is really how to work harder. It's not sarcasm, I just can't figure it out really. I've decreased rest time, added more different exercises, tried different supersets, slowed negatives, etc. The only thing left is to obviously add more weight. I'm still stuck on that, though - of course I get stronger every time, but it seems to come to a point where I can do however many reps of this weight and increase by the smallest increment to the next weight and rep count goes way down. It's usually not that extreme, but basically it's just like my strength drops off at a certain point if that makes any sense. I'll experiment with more weight and rest but so far I usually don't feel sore even though I'm still constantly gaining.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

It's very important to vary your work set/s weight from session to session.
Maybe train a particular lift around the 8-10 rep area for 2-3wks then go to the 3-5 rep range for the next couple weeks followed by a consecutive singles week (using 98% max approx.). Wouldn't hurt to throw in a burn week either with a 10-20 rep.

The format isn't as important as the princaple of muscle/neuro confusion.
Some trainers switch the rep ranges on a weekly basis.

As far as techniques to increase muscle work my only suggestion is to (for the most part) quit counting reps. (hopefully you don't stop a set just because that was the 8th rep, or 6th rep or whatever number)
Just take plenty of time to warm up/ladder up on each lift without using up any vigor, then place on weight that is anywhere close to that weeks target rep range, then go for broke on 1-3 sets.
Use different EITs (extra-intesity techniques) to prolong the sets if possible.

Forced reps are good with the right spotter.
Drops sets are great if you really fight with each weight and don't pause more than a few seconds max.
Negatives are alright on some stuff but often seem a little pointless to me.

My preference is to lower with control, pause and hold at the bottom for a second, then explode all out without rocking, bucking, hitching.
In other words try to blast the weight on every rep, but do it from a slow controlled stable base on each rep.

Most of the time when guys start blasting the weight up they fall into this fast rep cadence in which they are just sort of dropping the weight, catching at the bottom and turning the momentum around with no stop or pause at the bottom.
Of course at the bottom when holding you want to be in a position of maximum tightness, not relaxing in any way, then start to farther tighten-up just before blasting to help prevent that natural plyometric reaction our nervous system uses to make an action easier which is rocking or in the case of bench is dropping the shoulders back a tiny bit while starting the explosion.
It's hard to resist when exploding from an absolute standstill but it makes many lifts more torquefull and efficient (less sets, less total reps, more muscle breakdown).

Something else very effective for loner lifters like myself who rarely have help for heavy forced reps is to finish yourself off on a workset by reducing the range of motion after you've got as many full ranges as possible.

If you bench inside a rack with safety-rods set you can full range as many reps as possible then continue for a few more reps of pushing as high as possible on each rep, or even holding the weight at the sticking point for those extra few seconds maybe even 5-10 seconds.

On barbell/cambered-bar curls, you could blast each from a standstill until you can't finish another rep, then use an ever so slight rock to get some speed off the bottom and complete another few full-rangers, then return to standstill and pump a few more reps 1/4 or 1/2 way up until even that's shot and arms are ready to fall off or explode (we wish).

These are also all great ways to get hurt as well if not very careful.




edit; also,
There is a technique for making negatives work amazingly well, and that is hyper-loading.
It requires one if not two spotters on some lifts(powerlifts), or within the rack (loner boy) training.
Simply place 10-50 LBS more than your max on the bar, then dismount and lower the weight over as long as time span as humanly possible lol.
Will work wonders if you avoid injury.


----------



## m3l-mrq3z

When doing bench press exercises, I can lift up to 25 kg on each side. I am 24, 1.83, and I weigh 85 Kg...am I weak? :/


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## Murmel

^
In a bodybuilding or powerlifting sense, then yes you're weak. But from what I've seen, most people can't bench 60kg (25 on each side is 70kg with the bar) so don't worry about it. Just make sure you're progressing.


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## m3l-mrq3z

:'(


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## Murmel

My bench is even weaker than yours, but my deadlifts are over 100kg. I just suck at bench for some reason.


----------



## m3l-mrq3z

So, according to powerlifting standards, how much should I be able to lift?


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## Infamous Impact

m3l-mrq3z said:


> So, according to powerlifting standards, how much should I be able to lift?


This is accurate.
Strength Standards


----------



## Murmel

^
If the "intermediate" means what is the standard for people of that weight can handle, then I'd say it's pretty wack.
But if put from the perspective of people actually doing serious strength training I guess it would be more accurate.


----------



## Greatoliver

Infamous Impact said:


> This is accurate.
> Strength Standards



That's pretty cool. Turns out my bench is better than I thought for my weight!

My squats are still terrible


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## UnderTheSign

m3l-mrq3z said:


> So, according to powerlifting standards, how much should I be able to lift?


Depends. do you want to be 'decent' (3 plates on each side should get ya there) or do you want to be elite and bench 350kgs?

The strenght standards calculator is accurate but not a definite standard, especially if you're not a very serious trainee/competitor.


----------



## m3l-mrq3z

UnderTheSign said:


> Depends. do you want to be 'decent' (3 plates on each side should get ya there) or do you want to be elite and bench 350kgs?
> 
> The strenght standards calculator is accurate but not a definite standard, especially if you're not a very serious trainee/competitor.



3 plates weighing how much? Of course I want to be decent. I am not striving to become a body-builder.


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

looking at those strength standards my bench is HUGELY lagging behind my other lifts, christ


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Hit a new 5 rep max on bench today with 240lbs. 
I have been severely slacking on bench, over the course of the year i've maybe gone up ten pounds just because I have been focusing so much on lower body lifts. Stoked to get it though, felt good.


----------



## UnderTheSign

m3l-mrq3z said:


> 3 plates weighing how much? Of course I want to be decent. I am not striving to become a body-builder.


In weightlifting terms "X plates" usually means a 45lbs/20kg plate on each side.

3-plate is what most powerlifters I know that do meets hit. The weights you lift should correspond with your own goals, not with certain standards. Like I said, if you want to be an elite powerlifter, you'll have to bench huge. If you want to be a decent active powerlifter, you can get away with much less.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Slightly pulled a muscle in my back showing off trying to dunk a basketball. Hurts to squat/clean/deadlift.


----------



## Infamous Impact

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> Slightly pulled a muscle in my back showing off trying to dunk a basketball. Hurts to squat/clean/deadlift.


Don't. Let your back heal up. That kind of stuff sticks forever if you aggravate it after injury.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Will do man. It's the same reason I can't throw javelin in track. Everytime I try it aggravates the muscle. Which is a shame because my dad was a state competitor throwing it and I always wanted to see if I could do it too.


----------



## Infamous Impact

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> Will do man. It's the same reason I can't throw javelin in track. Everytime I try it aggravates the muscle. Which is a shame because my dad was a state competitor throwing it and I always wanted to see if I could do it too.


Heal up and throw outdoor!


----------



## m3l-mrq3z

It seems to me that German gym users have lower standards when it comes to bench pressing. I have never ever seen a guy lifting more than two plates here. Even the strongest guys at the gym never go past 40 kg on each side of the bar. What's wrong?


----------



## Murmel

If you go to a big chain type gym you rarely see anyone chuck around large amounts of weight. Those dudes/women usually go to more dedicated power lifting gyms, at least that's my experience.


----------



## UnderTheSign

m3l-mrq3z said:


> It seems to me that German gym users have lower standards when it comes to bench pressing. I have never ever seen a guy lifting more than two plates here. Even the strongest guys at the gym never go past 40 kg on each side of the bar. What's wrong?


Do you ever see them deadlifting or squatting high amounts though?


----------



## m3l-mrq3z

UnderTheSign said:


> Do you ever see them deadlifting or squatting high amounts though?



Well, not really. Why?


@Murmel: I thought so.


----------



## GalacticDeath

Hey guys just wanted to share with you guys some progress that I've made after about a year of serious lifting. I promise you guys I train more than just my arms, but I don't have any shirtless pics of me before I lifted and I don't quite feel comfortable enough even now. 

Anyway, my arms have always been a huge weakness for me. I remember at almost 12in my arms were about the same size as my younger sister's. So this is a muscle group that I made sure to focus on in my training. 

After a year of lifting and almost 8 months of bulking my arms are now about 16in cold, flexed. I did gain quite a bit of fat because I dirty bulked but I also gained a substantial amount of muscle I think. 

I'm no longer bulking, I'm on my second week of my cut now. Gotta get ready for the summer.


Before pic: never trained a day in my life, weighed about 125 lbs







After pic: 1 year of lifting, weigh about 200 lbs


----------



## UnderTheSign

m3l-mrq3z said:


> Well, not really. Why?
> 
> 
> @Murmel: I thought so.


They might just have low standards for lifting overall then


----------



## UnderTheSign

Not bad dude, you actually look like a normal human being now. Keep going.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

@ GalacticDeath
Holy shit dude that's serious progress. I'm betting there's been people you've ran into who don't even recognize you now.
Been visiting Westside Barbell? (yeah i know that's in Columbus lol)


----------



## Murmel

GalacticDeath said:


> Hey guys just wanted to share with you guys some progress that I've made after about a year of serious lifting. I promise you guys I train more than just my arms, but I don't have any shirtless pics of me before I lifted and I don't quite feel comfortable enough even now.
> 
> Anyway, my arms have always been a huge weakness for me. I remember at almost 12in my arms were about the same size as my younger sister's. So this is a muscle group that I made sure to focus on in my training.
> 
> After a year of lifting and almost 8 months of bulking my arms are now about 16in cold, flexed. I did gain quite a bit of fat because I dirty bulked but I also gained a substantial amount of muscle I think.
> 
> I'm no longer bulking, I'm on my second week of my cut now. Gotta get ready for the summer.
> 
> 
> Before pic: never trained a day in my life, weighed about 125 lbs
> 
> 
> 
> After pic: 1 year of lifting, weigh about 200 lbs


 
Extremely jealous of your bulk-genetics. I can't have a social life, do good in school or have a hobby if I want to bulk because my metabolism is through the roof.
Excellent progress.


----------



## m3l-mrq3z

How tall are you, galactic man?


----------



## GalacticDeath

UnderTheSign said:


> Not bad dude, you actually look like a normal human being now. Keep going.



lol thanks man, I'm no where near as big as I want to be, so I'll definitely keep at it.



TRENCHLORD said:


> @ GalacticDeath
> Holy shit dude that's serious progress. I'm betting there's been people you've ran into who don't even recognize you now.
> Been visiting Westside Barbell? (yeah i know that's in Columbus lol)



Thanks a lot! Yeah, I've had some old friends and acquaintances walk right past me in school because they can't recognize me. haha they always have this weird look on their faces when I call out their names.

lol I just train at my school gym and at the Y. Maybe someday I'll visit a more intense gym like Westside Barbell.



Murmel said:


> Extremely jealous of your bulk-genetics. I can't have a social life, do good in school or have a hobby if I want to bulk because my metabolism is through the roof.
> Excellent progress.



Thanks dude, definitely takes a lot of eating for sure. I think I was bulking at around 3,500 cals for most of my bulk. The thing is that I've always been a big eater. Even before I started training and bulking, people would tell me I ate like a fat person, so it wasn't too hard for me to get all those cals in me. Protein shakes really helped me get a few more cals in me when I didn't feel like eating. Maybe you could try a mass gainer, I never tried one but they might benefit you if you're having trouble reaching a calorie surplus.



m3l-mrq3z said:


> How tall are you, galactic man?



I'm 5'8" bro


----------



## Murmel

^
Already on the mass gainer. 
I've lost 4-5kgs in about a month now because I haven't been able to eat enough (been at school from 8:30am to 7pm almost every day). 
A lot of is probably water weight, still sucks because your lifts suffer quite a bit from it. Mostly my bench and DL's have gone down, squats are fine for some weird reason.


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

@GalacticDeath: WOW, very well done man, you look huge! Can't wait to see what you look like after cutting!

message:
I have inconsistent lifter syndome where I say I'll do one thing then change my mind, so I have some very simple goals for 2013, this should also humble me by telling everyone my shitty lifts:

Current stats: 5'6, 73kg, 15% bf
(NOT 1RM's)
Squat: 90kg
Bench: 60kg
Deadlift: 110kg

Goals: c. 70-75kg, 8-10% bf
Squat: 150kg
Bench: 120kg
Deadlift: 180kg

to do this I just need to lift lots for high weight/low reps, eat CLEAN at or slightly above maintenance and do cardio 1-3x a week.

I very humbly request to any SSO lifters who see this post to neg rep the shit out of me if I post about doing anything different between now and reaching aforementioned goals. Cheers all.


----------



## Infamous Impact

Captain Shoggoth said:


> @GalacticDeath: WOW, very well done man, you look huge! Can't wait to see what you look like after cutting!
> 
> message:
> I have inconsistent lifter syndome where I say I'll do one thing then change my mind, so I have some very simple goals for 2013, this should also humble me by telling everyone my shitty lifts:
> 
> Current stats: 5'6, 73kg, 15% bf
> (NOT 1RM's)
> Squat: 90kg
> Bench: 60kg
> Deadlift: 110kg
> 
> Goals: c. 70-75kg, 8-10% bf
> Squat: 150kg
> Bench: 120kg
> Deadlift: 180kg
> 
> to do this I just need to lift lots for high weight/low reps, eat CLEAN at or slightly above maintenance and do cardio 1-3x a week.
> 
> I very humbly request to any SSO lifters who see this post to neg rep the shit out of me if I post about doing anything different between now and reaching aforementioned goals. Cheers all.


Do 5/3/1 Boring But Big for a year and you'll get those goals done easily, and get a lot of mass.

I highly recommend to anyone who wants to see good results in a year to read A Year on Wendler's 5/3/1


----------



## m3l-mrq3z

@GD: 1.76 and 100 kgs? Damn

@dudeaboveme: I am sorry, but he looks everything but aesthetic on the last picture.


----------



## Infamous Impact

m3l-mrq3z said:


> @GD: 1.76 and 100 kgs? Damn
> 
> @dudeaboveme: I am sorry, but he looks everything but aesthetic on the last picture.


How so? He only seems in need of a cut.


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

^the last picture minus 5% bodyfat would be aesthetic as fuck.

EDIT: ninja'd, yeah

@Infamous Impact: yeah, 5/3/1 was exactly what I intended to do but I was wondering which variant, thanks man


----------



## Infamous Impact

Captain Shoggoth said:


> ^the last picture minus 5% bodyfat would be aesthetic as fuck.
> 
> EDIT: ninja'd, yeah
> 
> @Infamous Impact: yeah, 5/3/1 was exactly what I intended to do but I was wondering which variant, thanks man


Read the book, it'll answer all your questions, and it's a quick read.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Bought ten pounds of BSN Syntha-6 today. Really excited to get it. I've been using Walmart protein for too long.


----------



## GalacticDeath

Captain Shoggoth said:


> @GalacticDeath: WOW, very well done man, you look huge! Can't wait to see what you look like after cutting!
> 
> message:
> I have inconsistent lifter syndome where I say I'll do one thing then change my mind, so I have some very simple goals for 2013, this should also humble me by telling everyone my shitty lifts:
> 
> Current stats: 5'6, 73kg, 15% bf
> (NOT 1RM's)
> Squat: 90kg
> Bench: 60kg
> Deadlift: 110kg
> 
> Goals: c. 70-75kg, 8-10% bf
> Squat: 150kg
> Bench: 120kg
> Deadlift: 180kg
> 
> to do this I just need to lift lots for high weight/low reps, eat CLEAN at or slightly above maintenance and do cardio 1-3x a week.
> 
> I very humbly request to any SSO lifters who see this post to neg rep the shit out of me if I post about doing anything different between now and reaching aforementioned goals. Cheers all.



Thanks man, I'm hoping to get to at least 10% by summer. Still got a long way to go, but I've lost 7 pounds in 2 weeks so hopefully everything goes as planned

You're lifting goals are definitely attainable man. Keep lifting hard and you'll get there for sure. Cheers!



m3l-mrq3z said:


> @GD: 1.76 and 100 kgs? Damn



lol thanks. I got quite a bit of fat on me though. My lean body mass is around 160 lbs so I'm dropping to 175 lbs so I can finally see some definition.


----------



## UnderTheSign

m3l-mrq3z said:


> @GD: 1.76 and 100 kgs? Damn
> 
> @dudeaboveme: I am sorry, but he looks everything but aesthetic on the last picture.


200lbs is 90kg. Not bad still, after some good cutting he'll end up around 75-80.


----------



## UnderTheSign




----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

New PR's! 
415 squat
235 clean
275 bench x2


----------



## TRENCHLORD

^^^^You should get a Syntha-6 edorsement.
"once I started taking this stuff it was like BAmmmm, and then I literally started setting new PRs the next day""This stuff is for real"

"works much better than the goat seamen I've been drinking" (that can be my line)


----------



## Chickenhawk

Random story of the day:

The gym I work out at is usually filled with nurses and doctors (hospital owned gym), and I took over the radio in the weight room today. The faces the snooty doctors made to Cattle Decapitation and Black Breath were amazing.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

TRENCHLORD said:


> ^^^^You should get a Syntha-6 edorsement.
> "once I started taking this stuff it was like BAmmmm, and then I literally started setting new PRs the next day""This stuff is for real"
> 
> "works much better than the goat seamen I've been drinking" (that can be my line)


  I swear the shit you say always cracks me up Trench. 
I actually haven't got it yet, it's still shipping. Will be at my house tomorrow I'm hoping.


----------



## Infamous Impact

Chickenhawk said:


> Random story of the day:
> 
> The gym I work out at is usually filled with nurses and doctors (hospital owned gym), and I took over the radio in the weight room today. The faces the snooty doctors made to Cattle Decapitation and Black Breath were amazing.


 I blast Bloodbath to the horror of the track girls whenever we lift.


----------



## Murmel

Yesterday I saw this huge old-school rock looking dude with a ponytail walk into the gym. He did a couple of sets then he went to the stereo, which at the time was playing cheese ballads.
I was certain that he went to change it to the classic rock station, and he did... for about 5 seconds before he switched to Rihanna and went back to his workout


----------



## troyguitar

Infamous Impact said:


>



Maybe that's where the disconnect lies between me and most of you guys...I think that this guy looks better in photo 1 than in 2 or 3. 3rd photo looks like he's a top-heavy mutant whose lower body can barely support him - or one of those guys who is paralyzed from the waist down and ends up building a huge upper body. You guys think that is actually a desirable look?

(serious question)


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

That's awesome man.  
I always blast Gojira in my weight room. My upper back is seriously killing me. After a weekend of doing nothing but slouching on a couch it hurts really bad.


----------



## Infamous Impact

troyguitar said:


> Maybe that's where the disconnect lies between me and most of you guys...I think that this guy looks better in photo 1 than in 2 or 3. 3rd photo looks like he's a top-heavy mutant whose lower body can barely support him - or one of those guys who is paralyzed from the waist down and ends up building a huge upper body. You guys think that is actually a desirable look?
> 
> (serious question)


At the end of his year of 5/3/1 he squats over 400 and deadlifts over 500. The quality of the picture and flexing his lats to spread out makee his legs look small. If that's not the type of body you desire, fair enough. But don't accuse someone of looking unbalanced without better background. 


AngstRiddenDreams said:


> That's awesome man.
> I always blast Gojira in my weight room. My upper back is seriously killing me. After a weekend of doing nothing but slouching on a couch it hurts really bad.


Sitting down all day does that. Sadly, no amount of stretching and foam rolling can really help against being a student.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Didn't he squat 515? That's such a huge improvement over one year.  I wish I had the time to do something like that. My problem with lifting weights is that I only get one hour every monday wedenesday and friday. 
Our high school is so small (less than 40 kids) that the weight room is never opened outside of school. My dad is the maintenance man so I lift weights with him when he does after school. It's just really hard to make progress only lifting 3 hours a week. Then you have to factor in 3 day weekends, breaks, and being sick. 
I hate being a student.


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

^Gojira is among my favourite training music



troyguitar said:


> Maybe that's where the disconnect lies between me and most of you guys...I think that this guy looks better in photo 1 than in 2 or 3. 3rd photo looks like he's a top-heavy mutant whose lower body can barely support him - or one of those guys who is paralyzed from the waist down and ends up building a huge upper body. You guys think that is actually a desirable look?
> 
> (serious question)



1. hadn't noticed the lower body before, in photo 3 it looks kinda small but that's more than likely the pose. Personally I'd like big legs but it doesn't seem awful.

2. if he was doing 5/3/1 then I'd be willing to bet cash money that his legs can more than adequately support his frame

EDIT: fucking ninjad again


----------



## troyguitar

Infamous Impact said:


> At the end of his year of 5/3/1 he squats over 400 and deadlifts over 500. The quality of the picture and flexing his lats to spread out makee his legs look small. If that's not the type of body you desire, fair enough. But don't accuse someone of looking unbalanced without better background.



Who cares what the numbers are? I'm talking purely about appearance and asking a simple question: Do you think he looks like his upper body is way too big for his lower body?

It's obviously subjective - that's what I'm trying to figure out: Are you guys operating on an entirely different visual scale than I am? The answer appears to be yes if you think that he looks good. A chest size that is double your waist size and arms that are as big as your legs does not look good to me. I am wondering if it looks good to you and that is part of our misunderstanding...


----------



## TRENCHLORD

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> I swear the shit you say always cracks me up Trench.


 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWINtUCshxY


----------



## Infamous Impact

troyguitar said:


> Who cares what the numbers are? I'm talking purely about appearance and asking a simple question: Do you think he looks like his upper body is way too big for his lower body?
> 
> It's obviously subjective - that's what I'm trying to figure out: Are you guys operating on an entirely different visual scale than I am? The answer appears to be yes if you think that he looks good. A chest size that is double your waist size and arms that are as big as your legs does not look good to me. I am wondering if it looks good to you and that is part of our misunderstanding...


It's a mere difference of opinion.


----------



## troyguitar

Which is why I was asking for other opinions... 

i.e. What is your "ideal" chest/waist or upper arm/thigh or forearm/wrist ratio, etc.?


----------



## MrCthulhu

I think it depends on your body type, and honestly genetics. I know guys that have tiny legs but they can press big numbers. Just because their legs aren't huge, doesn't mean they aren't strong, and that goes for all aspects of the body. I saw this one guy once that couldn't have weighed more than 115lbs shoulder pressing 60lbs dumbells like he was Bruce Lee or something. You kind of have to go with what your given, and try and keep it as symmetrical as you can. We can't all look like Conan.


----------



## Aevolve

Well, I feel pretty good about today. Hit a PR on deadlift (I've never really tried to max before)

I'm ~5'10 and 152 lbs, today I deadlifted 3 sets of 4 reps at 225, then cleared 2 reps of 245, followed by my normal back and bicep routine.

Might find out what my actual max is soon, any opinions as far as where I'm at guys?


EDIT: by the way, my goals for the end of the year are bench over 225,.deadlift over 350.


----------



## m3l-mrq3z

Did 210 kg in the leg press machine yesterday. I feel kind of proud


----------



## GalacticDeath

Hey guys, I'm on my third week of cutting and I went from 200 to 188 lbs. I'm starting to see a bit more definition and can definitely tell I've shed some fat, but am I cutting too fast? I've heard people say that 2 pounds a week is optimal but I just lost 12 lbs in 3 weeks. I'm guessing that's mostly water weight, but I'm still somewhat worried. This is my first time cutting so I'm still a noob at this.


----------



## troyguitar

Water weight is huge, you could lose 10 lbs in a few days from just water/salt intake. I wouldn't worry about it unless it continues.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Gonna upload a video of me incline benching 260 later today. I arch my back like a mofo but I still think it's good.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

GalacticDeath said:


> Hey guys, I'm on my third week of cutting and I went from 200 to 188 lbs. I'm starting to see a bit more definition and can definitely tell I've shed some fat, but am I cutting too fast? I've heard people say that 2 pounds a week is optimal but I just lost 12 lbs in 3 weeks. I'm guessing that's mostly water weight, but I'm still somewhat worried. This is my first time cutting so I'm still a noob at this.


 
Probably a little of everything, but mainly I'm guessing it to be glycogen stores mostly. (you've most likely chopped your carbs heavily)
Shouldn't be cutting much water weight (unless you have some sort of competition weigh-in tommorow) becuase that will impede your various biological proccess' that you need, including fat reduction (we almost all need that ).

If your lifting poundages aren't changing much then it's not muscle fiber, although you should include either a major cheat day once a week or get on a calorie rotation (it's called something else but I'm blanking right now).

You're most likely in the same boat as I am in that we gain and lose at the drop of a hat with only slight changes to diet (especially at your age).
You might have to be careful with an extended diet (hence the cheat-day reccommendation) of more than a couple weeks or you'll start shedding muscle (again, just note your lifting strength changes).

People who respond very easily to cutting are often the ones who will shed muscle if the calories/macros aren't dialed in just right, and rotations can make the requirements a bit less exacting.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> Gonna upload a video of me incline benching 260 later today. I arch my back like a mofo but I still think it's good.


 
How many reps we doing here?


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

TRENCHLORD said:


> How many reps we doing here?


Only one, keep in mind Trench, I'm 16 and I weigh like 195.  I'll do more reps as the year progresses and I put on as much weight as I wanna. 
My goal is to get up to around 205 while staying lean like I am. 210 is my dream goal but I think I'd be fat.


----------



## m3l-mrq3z

^Periphery fan?


----------



## GalacticDeath

TRENCHLORD said:


> Probably a little of everything, but mainly I'm guessing it to be glycogen stores mostly. (you've most likely chopped your carbs heavily)
> Shouldn't be cutting much water weight (unless you have some sort of competition weigh-in tommorow) becuase that will impede your various biological proccess' that you need, including fat reduction (we almost all need that ).
> 
> If your lifting poundages aren't changing much then it's not muscle fiber, although you should include either a major cheat day once a week or get on a calorie rotation (it's called something else but I'm blanking right now).
> 
> You're most likely in the same boat as I am in that we gain and lose at the drop of a hat with only slight changes to diet (especially at your age).
> You might have to be careful with an extended diet (hence the cheat-day reccommendation) of more than a couple weeks or you'll start shedding muscle (again, just note your lifting strength changes).
> 
> People who respond very easily to cutting are often the ones who will shed muscle if the calories/macros aren't dialed in just right, and rotations can make the requirements a bit less exacting.



My lifts haven't changed much so that's a big relief, if anything I'd say some lifts have gotten stronger. I did cut my carbs quite a bit, I used to eat 200+ grams of carbs but I've cut it down to about 100 grams a day. 

I'll definitely start adding a cheat day to my weekly meal plan, thanks for the info and advice man!


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

m3l-mrq3z said:


> ^Periphery fan?


 I don't see how that is related at all, but yes I am actually. 
How the fuck did you draw that conclusion? Because i'm 16?


----------



## m3l-mrq3z

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> Because i'm 16?


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

That's a pretty general assumption man. My favorite bands are Gojira and Between the Buried and Me. It's not like I'm just "omg djentcorez Periffery is teh best guis" They just happen to be one of the many bands ranging from a lot of different genre's I listen to. I know you weren't trying to be a dick, and I'm not trying to sound like one either. 
How old are you, man? 

edit: do u evn lift bro?


----------



## m3l-mrq3z

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> edit: do u evn lift bro?



Not as much as you do...for how long have you been lifting? You are 16 and you weigh almost 200 lbs? How tall are you?


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

m3l-mrq3z said:


> Not as much as you do...for how long have you been lifting? You are 16 and you weigh almost 200 lbs? How tall are you?


 I'm just fucking with you man.  Just so you know. 
But I'm 6'1". I don't know what that is in meters if you're not from the US. 
But i've been lifting for around 2 years. I was already 185 when I started lifting so it really isn't that huge of an improvement in weight, I've always been big thanks to genetics.


----------



## m3l-mrq3z

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> I'm just fucking with you man.  Just so you know.
> But I'm 6'1". I don't know what that is in meters if you're not from the US.
> But i've been lifting for around 2 years. I was already 185 when I started lifting so it really isn't that huge of an improvement in weight, I've always been big thanks to genetics.



Damn, you are tall for your age. 6'1=1.85 m. 

I am an inch smaller, but a lot weaker. Here in Germany people don't go for lots of weight when lifting, it seems.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

When I was 13 I was right around 6' tall. 
That is actually really suprising, I've always imagined German's being ridiculously strong weightlifters.  
Cheers though, I have a very German ancestry. Know any Mohr's?  Jk


----------



## m3l-mrq3z

So you have German ancestry. I figured that much ;P



AngstRiddenDreams said:


> . Know any Mohr's?  Jk



I know half-blacks. Does that count?


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

I am very much so not black...so I guess not.  
Do you have classes in school for weightlifting in Germany?


----------



## m3l-mrq3z

I am afraid I don't understand your question. Classes for weighlifting?


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Yeah I kinda worded that pretty terribly. 
Do you have weightlifting classes? Like in my school my first class period is weightlifting, and we lift for an hour.


----------



## m3l-mrq3z

Not at all. I am a psychology student. Weighlifting lessons and psychology don't get along well XD


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Oh you're in college? I assumed you were in high school, or the German version of such. I think I want to be a personal trainer/nutrionist when I get out of school.


----------



## m3l-mrq3z

I am 24...I know I sound younger


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

How long have you been lifting? How often? 
I always like hearing another guy's routine.


----------



## Infamous Impact

I've had the best leg day in months today. And the last for 4 more. Track takes my gains away .


----------



## m3l-mrq3z

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> How long have you been lifting? How often?
> I always like hearing another guy's routine.



4 weeks. At least 3 times a week.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

I know I know, I arched my back a lot.


----------



## Maniacal

Let's be honest, that is not really an incline press. You are flat as soon as you go to raise the bar.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Which is why I said, I know I know I arched my back a lot. lol
I didn't have to arch it like that when I did 250, but that was the only way I could get that without getting it stuck on my chest.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

Bound to be sore tomorrow after pushing through that.
I would be concerned with the bench slipping suddenly back from the feet bracing (and that can happpen without any arching also).
I can't really see the spotter's feet though, so maybe he's bracing or there's something holding it solid.
Not to be a worry wart, but things get crazy in a hurry in benching accidents.
Obviously you are controlling everything well because it isn't slipping, but do remain consious and be reminded of that NCAA 1A running back who dropped the bar on his throat and came close to dying a couple years back. (he's in the NFL now but I can't think his name atm)

edit; There's just nothing safer than benching within a squat-cage, and the added confidence helps with extra-intensity techniques like partials and drop-sets.
Some cages don't have as much adjustability as others so you sometimes have to shim up the bench to match it right in order to achieve full range.
Benching in the cage makes forced reps about 1000X safer IMO, and you can always end the set at the bottom instead of the top regaurdless of the rep-style.
With inclines it's even harder for one spotter to provide good safety when going heavy (remember, at anytime you could always snap a tendon or rotator cuff), and most gyms at least have a free incline seat for dumbell inclines/shoulders that can be slid into the cage).

Maybe that's all attatched with the weight trees behind it so it probably wouldn't slip.


----------



## Uncreative123

That was painful to watch, seriously. You are on the fast track to destroying your shoulders if you keep that up. Your elbows going that low made me cringe. If you have to use that much body English to make the lift happen, you shouldn't be doing it. Incline bench injuries are more common than flat or decline and you will find that out the hard way if you keep this up. There's no reason to max out on incline bench. There's no reason to max out on any lift unless you're in a powerlifting competition or to seriously boost your ego. 

I understand the desire to do it, but I am telling you it's just not worth the risk of injury.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Trench and Uncreative, thanks for the advice guys. I always find it helpful hearing your feed back when I post things like this. 
Today I'll try to record doing less weights with better form. I assume I shouldn't go down as far?


----------



## TRENCHLORD

I stop with the bar an inch or two away from upper-chest (depends on the angle of whatever bench is in a particular gym and also what feels right that day, as well as grip width).

Some people have more/less shoulder flexability, like we all know guys that can grab their hands together behind the back with one over and one under (something i'm about 6" from being able to do).
Seems like every pitcher/quarterback I've known can do that lol.

Obviously the flatter the angle the deeper you can safely go, but most pro builders like the 20-30 degree angle and for some reason I see many gyms (especially ones with older equipment) having close to 45 degree benches.

If you watch some videos of the pros you'll notice many stopping at the point where their upper-arm is barely below parrallel with the ground.

Getting the shoulders extremely warm/hot before the work sets goes a long way in preventing injury and wear, plus it improves performance a bit.

I like doing very light dumbell side raises and weightless arm circles (not wide circles) between some light ladder up sets to get the whole shoulders engulfed with blood.

Circle mainly backwards with arms almost straight out and elbows bent just a small amount, and keep circling for a couple minutes until it feels like they're going to catch fire.

Don't worry about it hurting your work set performance because it's really not tiring the fast twitch strength fibers.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

I have extremely flexible shoulders, more so than most people I know. I usually a set of twenty pushups and ten pullups before I do any bench work whatsoever. This was also after doing multiple sets of incline, so I was warmed up. But I will not go down as far anymore, nor will I arch my back. I do not want to be injured at all.


----------



## UnderTheSign

I don't care about the back arch but keep your ass on the goddamn bench!


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

UnderTheSign said:


> I don't care about the back arch but keep your ass on the goddamn bench!


  Okay. 
I went in today and dropped the weight a bit down (205,215) and belted myself to the bench. It was noticeably harder but I managed sets of 6 with each.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

UnderTheSign said:


> I don't care about the back arch but keep your ass on the goddamn bench!


 
Yeah i forgot that point, it's not the arch that's bad because even on flat bench a reasonable arch is essential and is the only way to get the lats involved.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

TRENCHLORD said:


> Yeah i forgot that point, it's not the arch that's bad because even on flat bench a reasonable arch is essential and is the only way to get the lats involved.


Strangely enough, I have never really arched my back much at all on a flat bench. I only ever do it on incline bench. 
Maybe it just seems that way since it's so pronounced at an angle. You were right though Trench, I am sorer than hell yesterday. Though in the afternoon I did another 5-3-1 on flat bench with 240-255-275. That probably contributed a little bit too.  Good thing I have ten pounds of protein though, helps my recovery a lot.


----------



## UCBmetal

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> I know I know, I arched my back a lot.




Stop stealing my bedroom technique!


----------



## soliloquy

a fairly common injury that some of you may suffer from...i had this problem years ago, and after yesterdays workout, its back....

wrist injury from improper form. i've never had the issue with benching/pushing or most pulling workouts. however, reverse curls almost always fuck me up if i'm using an EZ bar. straight bars hurt me a whole lot more...

but if your wrists hurt during benching, then take a look at this

How You Can Avoid Wrist Pain From the Bench Press | StrongLifts StrongLifts


----------



## soliloquy

the new way to work out your stomach....


----------



## TRENCHLORD

^^^^^^^^^^^^^WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


and we see what that kind of physique that technique has given him


----------



## TRENCHLORD

soliloquy said:


> a fairly common injury that some of you may suffer from...i had this problem years ago, and after yesterdays workout, its back....
> 
> wrist injury from improper form. i've never had the issue with benching/pushing or most pulling workouts. however, reverse curls almost always fuck me up if i'm using an EZ bar. straight bars hurt me a whole lot more...
> 
> but if your wrists hurt during benching, then take a look at this
> 
> How You Can Avoid Wrist Pain From the Bench Press | StrongLifts StrongLifts


 
Using wraps helps tremendously over the long haul.
Also, if you have smaller hands and wrist try to find a smaller diameter bar (1 1/16"-1 1/8") because it helps keep the wrist straight and the fist tight.


----------



## Idontpersonally

subbed

@angst btw


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Thanks for sharing that video man. 

Yesterday I was dicking around with some of my friends at track practice and I decided to throw a shot put, I threw about a foot short of the distance that won state last year. Granted I go to a 1B school so the competition isn't exactly awesome.


----------



## Infamous Impact

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> Thanks for sharing that video man.
> 
> Yesterday I was dicking around with some of my friends at track practice and I decided to throw a shot put, I threw about a foot short of the distance that won state last year. Granted I go to a 1B school so the competition isn't exactly awesome.


Take that as an advantage. My main rival won 3 state champion titles, broke a natiinal record, and qualified for the Olympics all on the same day last week.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

Another entertaining (I think they're funny, in a good way) Hodge twin video.
I really do think through all the goofy shit they say/do that the advice is solid in most cases, and especially helpful to those who are fairly new to the sport.


----------



## 1968 Charger B5

Been working out for around 3.5 years. I initially started dieting and lifting when I started law school because I refused to be a fat slob of an attorney like many others...

It has been a bit tougher to maintain a steady regimen lately as my new job starts next month and I am rather busy preparing....heres a shot of me last summer out around Rainsford Island with my father (outside Boston harbor...)


----------



## 1968 Charger B5

I will add...food is everything. I take no supplements, and do not plan to. No girl(s) ever give a shit if you can lift more than the next guy, or if you take a ton of stupid supplements and fart all the time...lol


----------



## TRENCHLORD

^ It's not bad to lay off for awhile periodically anyways. Gives the joints a chance to "feel better" /heal.
As long as you have a couple good training seasons /yr. you can definetly stay in respectful shape. At least with a decent diet you can.


----------



## 1968 Charger B5

I hear ya. A friend was a bodybuilder years ago, was mr rhode island in the early 90s. He still looks amazing for his age, but we all know it was he juice...although he was insane with diet and lifting.....to me it was just plain ol' cheating....


----------



## Maniacal

I take supplements purely to increase my farting abilities. The other benefits are just a bonus.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

^lol, yeah



Seriously though, there are many good quality whey ISOLATE powders (isopure) that are lactose free, and basically cost free as well when used a supplements and not as complete crutches.
At less than $1/serving they can be quite helpful in maintaning, and especially when cutting or bulking.

It's a goal relative thing really.
If one's goal is simply to look unpathetic, then sups probably are just a waste of $.
However, if one enjoys the competition (even just competing with yourself), then whey isolates are an excellent way to start the day alongside a lean healthy breakfast.

Also, there's going to be times when meal prepping and transporting food is mucho hassle, and throwing a couple dry scoops of powder in the shaker and taking it with helps ensure that you don't go catabolic (like when traveling).

Most, if not damned near all of those secondary sups are a complete sham.
Creatine is a good sup if you are involved in draining activities in addition to weight training, but if a person trains for 60-90 min 2-3x/wk. then I wouldn't even bother IMO.


----------



## UnderTheSign

1968 Charger B5 said:


> I hear ya. A friend was a bodybuilder years ago, was mr rhode island in the early 90s. He still looks amazing for his age, but we all know it was he juice...although he was insane with diet and lifting.....to me it was just plain ol' cheating....


Roids don't make a champion though. Dedication does.

I think supps are very useful as what they are- supplements. They supplement your diet and recovery. Whey, creatine, aminos, multivitamins are all very useful. And girls might not care how much you lift but I (and a lot of others) don't lift for the girls. 

As for the Hodge Twins... They make me cringe. 2 seconds into their vid and I turned it off. I'd rather sit through an hour of Scooby than having to watch a full video of them


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

You can knock Scooby, but I found his beginner chinup plan (even if I find his habit of calling negatives "Walk-the-Planks" irritating) is kickass and super helpful.

also question; on 5/3/1 how much should I increase per month? 5kg on squat/deadlift and 2.5kg on OHP/bench seems like what Wendler suggests, anyone here got any experience? More? Less?


----------



## UnderTheSign

Captain Shoggoth said:


> You can knock Scooby, but I found his beginner chinup plan (even if I find his habit of calling negatives "Walk-the-Planks" irritating) is kickass and super helpful.
> 
> also question; on 5/3/1 how much should I increase per month? 5kg on squat/deadlift and 2.5kg on OHP/bench seems like what Wendler suggests, anyone here got any experience? More? Less?


I think it's 10lbs on squat/deads and 5lbs on OHP/bench so yeah, 5 and 2,5kgs respectively sounds reasonable. I found it hard to increase my bench and OHP every month because the smallest plates at my gym are 2,5kg so 5kg is the smallest step upwards.
Calculate your 1RM, take 90% of that, take 90% of that for the first month and move from there I think.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

UnderTheSign said:


> As for the Hodge Twins... They make me cringe. 2 seconds into their vid and I turned it off. I'd rather sit through an hour of Scooby than having to watch a full video of them


 

But don't you wanna build "auuwl kiiiines o muuscle" ?


----------



## 1968 Charger B5

I have watched a few videos, I find myself unable to really workout at home. It is too comfortable. I much prefer a gym. I actually completely prefer separate areas for males and females, nothing is more aggravating then a bunch a dummies sweatin over a female tryin to workout.
Last time I was there, my gf was with me lifting some dumbells, and few guys were droolin, yes in a way it was a compliment, but also it was like guys shes trying to workout, leave her alone.


----------



## Chickenhawk

Has anybody ever asked "What pre-workout supplements does the good ole 'Hawk use?"

No? 

Doesn't surprise me 

NOTHING!!



...until today. Grabbed a tub 'o this:






In fruit punch. And it kicks ass.


----------



## UnderTheSign

Is that the original that still contains 1,3dim or the new one with it removed?


----------



## Chickenhawk

The original.


----------



## UnderTheSign

Nice. Yeah, I've had both good and bad experiences with 1,3d but the good experiences were absolutely great. Best gym session feeling-wise.


----------



## Chickenhawk

Today was the first time I've used a pre-workout in years, and the first time I've ever used Jack3d. I can't believe I stopped working out. This shit is GREAT.

I'm going to finish this tub, then switch to the Jack3d Micro for a while, then cycle off for a few weeks. Everything I've read/watched/heard is that the new stuff is better, but a lot of the opinions involved not liking Beta Alanine, which has never bothered me.

We'll see. I got showed up by a 62 year old at the gym today. Time to step it up


----------



## Uncreative123

1,3 dimethylamylamine was made illegal last year. If you bought that today it doesn't have 1,3 dimethylamylamine in it as it's illegal to sell it. 

The amount of 1,3 D in the original Jack3d was underdosed. I only took one supplement with 1,3 D in it (aside from jack3d) and it was fantastic, but Jack3d paled in comparison. The new formula doesn't have anything in it that you can't find elsewhere.

USP labs will only be a memory by 2014.


----------



## Chickenhawk

I bought that today at GNC. 

Guess they didn't change the label, or they're still in a grace period to dump the rest of their stock. One of the local GNCs had at least 10 left.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

I used to take the original ripped fuel by twin labs (with herbal ephedrine/caffine mixed) and spike it with a few cups of strong black coffee.

It got to be too much though after awhile, or maybe I just wasn't liking it as much so I cut down to only one instead of two capsules then eventually just went back to straight black unsweetened coffee.,

It only works well if you abstain from caffine except for the few workouts a week, and quickly down about 4-5 cups right before starting and as you're begining.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

I used Jack3d as a pre-workout for a month, N.O. Xplode for the same amount of time. But I felt like I was wasting them because I always took it right after breakfast because my weightlifting class is first period. Haven't taken a pre since.


----------



## Marv Attaxx

I use Cellucor C4. Well, I only use a booster when I'm tired, haven't used a booster during the first 12 years I lifted. Getting older haha.
Anyway, I really like the product. Improves your lifts without letting you feel like you're about the explode or having a trip. I only need a gentle push to start a workout, not a cocktail that fucks up my body chemistry 
1 scoop or a half one and I'm good to go.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

New Pr in Hexbar deadlift, 515.


----------



## Ibanezsam4

i thought my workout could benefit from having more structure and consistency, so my brother recommended this guy to me 

 

the workouts suck to do but it really pushes me and i like it quite a bit


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

I've been putting on a lot of weight lately and I wanted to know your guy's take on this. All through out football and basketball season I lifted three days a week for roughly an hour, and I still ate a ton. Never gained a pound, stayed at 195. Our basketball season has been over for almost two months and since then I've started taking whey, creatine, and have gone to lifting over two hours 3-4 days a week. I weighed myself yesterday and I was 208. I know there's no way I've put on 13 pounds of fat because I'm just as defined as i've always been. When I flex you can somewhat see my top four abs, I've always looked just like that. 
My arms are noticeably bigger though. Do you guys think that it seems like a lot? My thoughts are that it's probably a couple pounds of water weight from creatine too.


----------



## soliloquy

so, i was making great strength gain during my 5X5 workout.

however, i recently saw a picture of myself from 3 years ago and i wanna die. i used to be so lean back then.

need to change my workout. what burns more calories? 3 sets of 8 to 10s?


----------



## UnderTheSign

soliloquy said:


> so, i was making great strength gain during my 5X5 workout.
> 
> however, i recently saw a picture of myself from 3 years ago and i wanna die. i used to be so lean back then.
> 
> need to change my workout. what burns more calories? 3 sets of 8 to 10s?


It's not the workout that makes you fat, it's the diet. Change that.


----------



## soliloquy

My diet hasnt changed over the last 3 years by a whole lot.


----------



## Aevolve

Just curious to you guys' take on this. Similar to Angst's question. I've started a new routine and eating schedule and I've been seeing similar results as he has.

How quickly would you say (in lbs/kg) is it possible to put on muscle within a given time period?


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Yeah i'm really wanting to know. Like I said, my arms are noticeably bigger, and my lifts have all gone up by 15-20 pounds. But that still seems like a lot of weight to me.


----------



## Majkel

soliloquy said:


> My diet hasnt changed over the last 3 years by a whole lot.



How old are you? Keep in mind that your metabolism will change quite a bit in your mid-twenties. Also keep in mind that simple stuff like going from a standing to a sitting job will have an effect.


----------



## Majkel

Aevolve said:


> Just curious to you guys' take on this. Similar to Angst's question. I've started a new routine and eating schedule and I've been seeing similar results as he has.
> 
> How quickly would you say (in lbs/kg) is it possible to put on muscle within a given time period?



I think the numbers touted by professors is that on a clean bulk (ie, no HGH) with a consistently very high focus on diet, exercise and recovery the average person can potentially put on about 5lbs of lean mass per year.




AngstRiddenDreams said:


> I've been putting on a lot of weight lately and I wanted to know your guy's take on this. All through out football and basketball season I lifted three days a week for roughly an hour, and I still ate a ton. Never gained a pound, stayed at 195. Our basketball season has been over for almost two months and since then I've started taking whey, creatine, and have gone to lifting over two hours 3-4 days a week. I weighed myself yesterday and I was 208. I know there's no way I've put on 13 pounds of fat because I'm just as defined as i've always been. When I flex you can somewhat see my top four abs, I've always looked just like that.
> My arms are noticeably bigger though. Do you guys think that it seems like a lot? My thoughts are that it's probably a couple pounds of water weight from creatine too.



Keep in mind that you've effectively cut out a big chunk of your cardio and mass-burning exercise, and you're instead focusing on mass-building with supplementation (additional protein for growth and creatine for extra endurance in those final reps that matter). Provided your diet has stayed the same you've effectively entered a bulking phase considering the amount of calories you had to consume to maintain weight with that amount of exercise. So couple that with the fact that most brands of creatine add a fair bit of water weight (ranging from 4 to 10 pounds, usually), I'd say there's your answer.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Thanks for the answer man. I'm just taking plain ol creatine monohydrate.


----------



## Majkel

Yep! If you're freaking out about it, just cycle off it for a while and see if you drop. Otherwise, just go by what the mirror says and lift heavier shit ;D


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

I'm not worried at all. I'm trying to gain weight. If I could be 210 or 215 and a bit leaner by football season I would be sooooo happy.


----------



## Atomshipped

Forearms are so sore I can barely play guitar


----------



## TRENCHLORD

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> I'm not worried at all. I'm trying to gain weight. If I could be 210 or 215 and a bit leaner by football season I would be sooooo happy.


 
I'd be willing to bet that football/basketball had your stored glycogen levels depleted, and that you've not only gained a few pounds of muscle but also several pounds of glycogen stores and some extra stored water.
Probably about equal parts each.
Even a couple pounds of fat can go somewhat un-noticed visually when you get some lean bulking at the same time.

Glycogen can account for a couple % of total lean muscle mass, so even going from 1% up to 2% stored could account for a couple pounds.
Glycogen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Aevolve

Can I get an opinion from you guys on the new routine?

A. Chest
Bench press 5x5
Incline db flyes (everything else 4x10)
Incline db press
Cable flyes
Bench press machine

B. Back
Deadlift 5x5
Lat pulldown (front grip) - (everything else 4x10)
Lat pulldown (back grip)
Seated cable rows
Barbell rows
Shrugs
1-Arm db rows

C. Shoulders
Overhead/Military press (everything 4x10)
Dumbell side raises
Dumbell shoulder press
Cable delt raise
Front delt plate raise

D. Arms
Curls 4x10
Hammer curls 5x5
Preacher curls (everything else 4x10)
Reverse grip bb curls
Reverse grip tricep pushdown
Tricep pushdown (rope grip)
Tricep pushdown
Skullcrushers

E. Core + Legs
Squats 5x5
Lunges 4x10
Crunches 4xfailure
Obliques side bend on hyperextension bench 4x10
Hyperextension for back 5x10
+ isolation leg exercises if I have any energy left (leg curls, etc.)

ABxCDEx

How does it sound?


----------



## Majkel

Very similar to my own program 

I've bolded and colored the changes I'd personally make (which ofc, would make it look like my program ;P)



Aevolve said:


> Can I get an opinion from you guys on the new routine?
> 
> A. Chest
> Bench press 5x5 (rest as long as you need)
> *Flat DB flyes (3 x 6-8, 50-110s rest)*
> Incline db press
> *High Cable Flyes superset with Low Cable Flyes*
> 
> B. Back
> Deadlift 5x5 *(rest as long as you need)
> Chins (might be called pull-ups, depends on country. The one with the pronated grip)*
> Lat pulldown (front grip) - *(3 x 6-8, 50-110s rest)*
> Lat pulldown (back grip) (less prefered for potential injury)
> Barbell rows *(switch order to invest more in BB)*
> Seated cable rows
> Shrugs
> 1-Arm db rows
> 
> C. Shoulders
> Overhead/Military press *(3 x 6-8, 50-110s rest)*
> Dumbell side raises
> Dumbell shoulder press
> Cable *rear* delt raise
> Front delt plate raise *(I prefer this with a BB, whichever works best for your wrists)*
> *Shrugs*
> 
> D. Arms
> *Olympic Bar Curls 4 x 6-8, 2-2-4 tempo (this is your mass builder, give it your all and wrap your wrists)*
> *Dumbbell curls*
> Hammer curls
> *Rope curls with extended contraction (works out that last ounce of energy)*
> *Dips (preferably weighted). At least 6-8, but usually to failure*
> *Skullcrushers*
> Tricep pushdown (rope grip) *(flail hands out at bottom to focus on the outer head)*
> *Kickbacks*
> 
> E. Core + Legs
> Squats 5x5 *(rest as long as you need)*
> *Sumo deadlifts (not entirely sure. Just adding these here myself as I get KILLER glute and hamstring contact with the sumo stance)*
> *Leg curl (if my knees can handle it, very taxing for my joints)*
> *(if I'm feeling particularly self violating) 50x Dumbbell swings*
> Crunches 4xfailure
> Obliques side bend on hyperextension bench 4x10
> Hyperextension for back 5x10
> 
> ABxCDEx
> 
> How does it sound?



I removed your ab work from leg day, and would rather spread them out between sets on your other workouts three times per week. 

All bro-science and personal preference, but there it is for comparison. I would only like to stress that you didn't have dips in your triceps routine, and for me that's the major one (also one of my favorite exercises!)


----------



## UnderTheSign

The DB rows at the end of your back workout don't make much sense. Train your body parts in order, so hit lats, then finish with shrugs for traps. Same goes for leg day, why would you do legs, abs, legs? Do legs then abs.


----------



## Infamous Impact

I don't understand 5x a week splits. The volume is too low for my preference.


----------



## Majkel

Infamous Impact said:


> I don't understand 5x a week splits. The volume is too low for my preference.



How do you mean?


----------



## Atomshipped

^ You only get to work each muscle once a week instead of twice. I like twice a week too.


----------



## Majkel

Atomshipped said:


> ^ You only get to work each muscle once a week instead of twice. I like twice a week too.



Once per week is quite enough. You're focusing the entire workout on that one muscle. There's no way you could put it through the same amount of work several times per week unless you want to be in the gym for 2-3 hours at a time or work out 10 times per week. The split is there for added focus.


----------



## Maniacal

Agreed. One heavy, hard workout per muscle each week is easily enough. 

MAX OT is the best workout I have ever done and it is all about training heavy once per week.


----------



## Aevolve

Majkel said:


> Very similar to my own program
> 
> I've bolded and colored the changes I'd personally make (which ofc, would make it look like my program ;P)
> 
> 
> 
> I removed your ab work from leg day, and would rather spread them out between sets on your other workouts three times per week.
> 
> All bro-science and personal preference, but there it is for comparison. I would only like to stress that you didn't have dips in your triceps routine, and for me that's the major one (also one of my favorite exercises!)



I like the changes man. Dips are a favorite of mine as well, I'll go ahead and throw those in there. I'll try spreading out the ab work.

And as all of you are talking about twice/week splits, I'll probably do one once this routine starts to plateau. Only one week in on this routine and I can already tell a difference. Here comes some PRs.


----------



## soliloquy

other than bodybuilding.com and allstarhealth.com, are there any other supplement shipping websites out there? 

trying to price match but shipping to canada is getting a little insane...i might just have to buy them from gnc as they become cheaper...:|


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Tigerfitness maybe? Muscle and Strength?


----------



## soliloquy

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> Tigerfitness maybe? Muscle and Strength?



they both are quiet expensive comparing to bb.com

the only thing that FAR beats bb.com is protein factory. but there aren't too many reviews on them. 

i guess i have no choice but to shell out 400 bucks on a massive order...


----------



## Infamous Impact

soliloquy said:


> they both are quiet expensive comparing to bb.com
> 
> the only thing that FAR beats bb.com is protein factory. but there aren't too many reviews on them.
> 
> i guess i have no choice but to shell out 400 bucks on a massive order...


TrueNutrition is great for bulk orders


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Pretty much had my proudest moment as a weightlifter today. I hit 300 on the flat bench. It's a goal I set last year in January and it's taken quite a while.


----------



## Infamous Impact

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> Pretty much had my proudest moment as a weightlifter today. I hit 300 on the flat bench. It's a goal I set last year in January and it's taken quite a while.


Congratulations man!


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Thanks man! I was stoked to do it. Felt great.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

^^^ Sweet.
I always feel for you guys with the long arms.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

For real man. My arms are like 3 or 4 inches longer than my weightlifting partner. He's like 5'7". We have our conversion that we joke around with that we use to convert my lifts to his height. So on squat I'd say "Oh yeah I'd do 20 pounds more if my legs were short like yours"


----------



## soliloquy

Infamous Impact said:


> TrueNutrition is great for bulk orders



guess bodybuilding still is cheaper. but after shipping to my door, even that becomes more expensive than gnc...


----------



## Fiction

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> For real man. My arms are like 3 or 4 inches longer than my weightlifting partner. He's like 5'7". We have our conversion that we joke around with that we use to convert my lifts to his height. So on squat I'd say "Oh yeah I'd do 20 pounds more if my legs were short like yours"



 I have the same deal with chin ups and my mate that I gym with. He can do more of the body weight exercises (dips/pulls). But also weighs 15kg lighter


----------



## soliloquy

if you guys haven't tried renegade rows, you are missing out! these are a hole upper body workout! brings in your abs, arms, shoulders, chest, and focuses on upper/middle back:


----------



## UnderTheSign

TRENCHLORD said:


> ^^^ Sweet.
> I always feel for you guys with the long arms.


Apparently long arms are good when deadlifting... too bad my body as a whole feels long and stretched out  Long legs make going deep on squats tricky as well though I guess that's why I like a wide stance so much.


----------



## Majkel

UnderTheSign said:


> Apparently long arms are good when deadlifting... too bad my body as a whole feels long and stretched out  Long legs make going deep on squats tricky as well though I guess that's why I like a wide stance so much.



Have you tried sumo deadlifts, then?


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

I have this huge knot, and I mean HUGE knot on the outside of my hip. It doesn't hurt at all, feels rock hard when I stand and is softer when I sit. So confuzzled.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> I have this huge knot, and I mean HUGE knot on the outside of my hip. It doesn't hurt at all, feels rock hard when I stand and is softer when I sit. So confuzzled.


 

I think that is supposed to be _between _the hips . 
Might wanna get that checked if it last more than 4hrs .

OK, I'm out of jokes now. But really, if it last you should at least let a nurse look at it, preferably a hot one at close range.


----------



## soliloquy

had a bad leg/lower back day today. 
after 3 exercises (deadlift, squat, lying leg curls) of 4 sets of 5 reps (normally i do 5X5), i was just exhausted and cramping. was supposed to do:
jumping alternating lunges
calf raises
front leg raises
back extension
super man

and a few others...just couldnt...guess i need to up my water and carb intake...


----------



## Chickenhawk

soliloquy said:


> if you guys haven't tried renegade rows, you are missing out! these are a hole upper body workout! brings in your abs, arms, shoulders, chest, and focuses on upper/middle back:




Do pushups while you're down there. I throw that in to my routine every once in a while when I feel other people in the gym aren't giving me enough strange looks.

Lift right, lift left, pushup, repeat.


----------



## Majkel

I have a question for the guys that have progressed into heavier weights:

For biceps I've had barbell curls (slightly outside of medium grip) with the Olympic bar as my main mass builder for a while, but I'm struggling a bit with it currently. I'm at 110 lbs (50kg) for 3x8 reps, and while my biceps can (pretty much) handle the weight with proper form, my wrists totally can't. 

I'm using wrist wraps as tight as I can get them which help, but the weight is enough to still fuck up my wrists for a couple of days afterwards. The EZ-curl bar definitely eases off on the wrists, but I enjoy the straight bar more for contact with a completely supinated grip.

So does anyone have a magic bullet for this in terms of technique or wrapping, or is it time to start doing wrist curls and grip strength exercises (blergh)?


----------



## soliloquy

Majkel said:


> I have a question for the guys that have progressed into heavier weights:
> 
> For biceps I've had barbell curls (slightly outside of medium grip) with the Olympic bar as my main mass builder for a while, but I'm struggling a bit with it currently. I'm at 110 lbs (50kg) for 3x8 reps, and while my biceps can (pretty much) handle the weight with proper form, my wrists totally can't.
> 
> I'm using wrist wraps as tight as I can get them which help, but the weight is enough to still fuck up my wrists for a couple of days afterwards. The EZ-curl bar definitely eases off on the wrists, but I enjoy the straight bar more for contact with a completely supinated grip.
> 
> So does anyone have a magic bullet for this in terms of technique or wrapping, or is it time to start doing wrist curls and grip strength exercises (blergh)?



wrist wraps wont help with it. the barbell doesn't work for everyone, especially for their arms. even ez-bar at times hurts my wrists.

two things that would help GREATLY: 
dumbells. they allow far better control over your weight, and they take away any 'cheat' that your stronger arm may do comparing to your wearer side. for example, if you're a righty, your right arm will always be stronger than your lefty. doing a barbell allows the right arm to pickup any slack that the left is leaving behind. 

dumbells also allow greater range of motion and you can isolate every angle with ease. 


the other thing that would help would be trying to do 5X5s if you're trying to lift even heavier. or constantly keep alternating between 3X8s and 5X5s



but, i'm no expert...


----------



## troyguitar

I've been getting some good workouts in recently, tearing down my car getting ready for a clutch replacement. Breaking loose a bunch of bolts that haven't been touched for 131k miles while laying underneath the car can be a bear. 

Then of course since my AWD Audi is on jackstands in the garage, I got stuck in the snowstorm on Monday night trying to get up some hills in the middle of nowhere and got a hell of a workout pushing it out


----------



## Uncreative123

soliloquy said:


> wrist wraps wont help with it. the barbell doesn't work for everyone, especially for their arms. even ez-bar at times hurts my wrists.
> 
> ..





Wrist wraps do help- that's what they're made for. Straight BB curls are pretty hard on my wrists even with wraps, so I limit them. I only do two sets where I need wraps. 


But if your wrists are hurting DAYS afterwards there is a bigger underlying issue and if you're lucky, you'll just need to take some time off to fix it. I would avoid them for awhile- stick with ez bar curls, DB's, and machine stuff.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

^ what he said.

Wrists take a beating since they are involved in almost everything, so you just have to be calculated with the wear. 
Also as a guitar player it's double important.

We get a lot of mass building for arms when we do rows, pullups, bench, shoulders ect..., so very limited heavy isolations for arms are needed for the average non-competing trainer.

One-arm at a time concentration curls (with your arm braced against inner-thigh and upper-arm angle almost straight vertical) with a moderate weight dumbell going straight into a drop-set with lighter dumbell is a great way to get the biceps frying without killing the wrist.

Don't rock back at the top because that takes the tension off the peak contraction at the biceps peak.

With most dumbell stuff I prefer using the glove/wristwrap combination because it helps limit hand slipping when sweaty and also protects the wrist.

Depends on the dumbells though since there are many styles/sizes of grips. 

I can't stand using gloves with fat grip dumbells or fat barbells either one, which makes having the seperated wrist-wraps very useful.


----------



## Aevolve

Going heavier on deadlift, noticing my grip is failing long before I can't lift anymore.

What do you guys think? Should I work my forearms independently to train grip, or should I just deadlift what I can and let my grip catch up naturally?


----------



## TRENCHLORD

^ You are turning one hand around opposite of the other?
If so and you're already doing other back exersises/pulls, then yes i'd say just give it time.
Try getting a full meat of the palm grip on a pullup bar and just hang as long as possible for a couple sets. 
Close grip V-bar (palms facing each other) cable pulldowns are good for getting a strong bar in palm grip.

If slippage is the problem on deadlift try using a small amount of chaulk on the hardest set/s.


----------



## Majkel

Trench & Uncreative: I spoke to a friend of mine who's the world champion in Athletic Fitness, as well as his coach and their solution is simply to lower the weights. 

The reasoning is that actual strength in your biceps is really only needed for compound movements like chins or pull-ups, or if you're actually going to compete in curling. Apart from that, biceps do very well from more pump oriented weights for simple size, and thus overloading to the extent that wrists hurt on the straight bar isn't really necessary for me. Seeing as I can do the compound movements just fine, I'm going to try that solution for a while.

In regards to switching to dumbbells: I see them more for sculpting and defining the different sides. For mass-building - the straight bar is much more effective, so I wouldn't want to leave it out completely.


----------



## Majkel

TRENCHLORD said:


> If slippage is the problem on deadlift try using a small amount of chaulk on the hardest set/s.



I think this is a really important point as many people are prone to going with straps when they feel their grip fail. Magnesium will work wonders and still let YOU perform the exercise.


----------



## Aevolve

TRENCHLORD said:


> ^ You are turning one hand around opposite of the other?
> If so and you're already doing other back exersises/pulls, then yes i'd say just give it time.
> Try getting a full meat of the palm grip on a pullup bar and just hang as long as possible for a couple sets.
> Close grip V-bar (palms facing each other) cable pulldowns are good for getting a strong bar in palm grip.
> 
> If slippage is the problem on deadlift try using a small amount of chaulk on the hardest set/s.





Majkel said:


> I think this is a really important point as many people are prone to going with straps when they feel their grip fail. Magnesium will work wonders and still let YOU perform the exercise.



Unfortunately I'm using a university gym, and they don't allow chalk. Would I be shortchanging myself (and my grip) if I just got some straps?


----------



## TRENCHLORD

^not necessarily

Can even be a good thing if you do your other pulls afterwards.
Something else that's a common problem with deadlifting grip is that if you do them first lift of the day you might not really be getting your hand/wrist/forearms warmed up to the max (which is needed for single rep weight).

If you're not already, then try hitting some high reps with the first couple warm-up sets. 
Start with about 1/3 - 1/2 max weight and just rep until you get a good pump going, then do the same with around 60% max.
Obviously you don't want to use yourself up during warmups but more often than not I've seen people getting to the heavys before being quite ready.


----------



## Aevolve

TRENCHLORD said:


> ^not necessarily
> 
> Can even be a good thing if you do your other pulls afterwards.
> Something else that's a common problem with deadlifting grip is that if you do them first lift of the day you might not really be getting your hand/wrist/forearms warmed up to the max (which is needed for single rep weight).
> 
> If you're not already, then try hitting some high reps with the first couple warm-up sets.
> Start with about 1/3 - 1/2 max weight and just rep until you get a good pump going, then do the same with around 60% max.
> Obviously you don't want to use yourself up during warmups but more often than not I've seen people getting to the heavys before being quite ready.


Usually I just do a high-rep set with 135, then a medium-rep set with 225, then up to my heavy sets. Do you think that's sufficient?


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

I've been thinking lately about why I started lifting weights, what are your reasons for starting to lift?


----------



## RobPhoboS

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> what are your reasons for starting to lift?



Do you need a reason ?


----------



## Chickenhawk

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> I've been thinking lately about why I started lifting weights, what are your reasons for starting to lift?





RobPhoboS said:


> Do you need a reason ?





I started lifting this latest time so I could make "allll kkiiiiinnns of gains".


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

RobPhoboS said:


> Do you need a reason ?


Did you just wake up one day and find yourself in a gym lifting weights and say to yourself "Fuck it, I guess I'm just gonna keep doing this"  
I mean, what inspired you to start. Like self bettering, improving for a sport, to gain muscle.


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

used to be this guy:







enough said really


----------



## Majkel

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> I've been thinking lately about why I started lifting weights, what are your reasons for starting to lift?



The mirror and wanting to make my girlfriend go all wobbly at the knees. Added a pile of muscle and dropped down to about 6% body fat, and along the way I figured out I was naturally quite strong and progressed into power lifting. 

So at the moment I guess you could say that during spring and summer I'm focused on looking great, and during the colder season I'm focused on strength - not so much for bulk, but just to be able to lift shitloads of weight.


----------



## Majkel

Oh, I should also add that prior to starting with the weights about 3-4 years ago I'd literally NEVER engaged in sports or much physical activity.

Best damn thing I've EVER done for myself.


----------



## Greatoliver

I guess I started as I was sick of being skinny, and it came to a point where I wasn't comfortable with being like that. Plus, I hated the gym, which was a bit unreasonable, so I thought I would give it a go.


I then got addicted to the pump 


Well no, I found that it gave me a great feeling after, but more importantly, made me feel better with my body and less insecure. Also, I enjoyed the routine and it showed me that committing to something with enough will, leads to results. Plus, the discipline in getting out the last rep or maintaining form over weight has kinda transferred to life in general, and I feel I've got more peace of mind, but also strength of mind.

So yeah, pretty good life choice I think.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> I've been thinking lately about why I started lifting weights, what are your reasons for starting to lift?


 
My first go around with lifting came when my much older brother came back on leave from USMC boot camp. I was only 11 and just wanted to be around him, and since he was taking the opportunity to build back some of what he'd lost during boot camp I naturally wanted to join in.

Then a couple weeks later when he went back I just didn't want to stop.
We had a set of those plastic covered concrete weights AND a 300 set of black irons (KG style, in other words 44lb, 22lb, 11lb ect.., in the garage, plus we had a tiny little weider bench.

I didn't stop until I was about 15 and got into "adult stuff ", but during those few years my motivation shifted due to the attention I was suddenly getting from girls who had never noticed me before.

Also weights took me from being a fast youth football player who was afraid to take a hit, to a starting varsity player who could play any position on the field (except quarterback). All in a 3yr span.
Also my long jump went from 12ft to 21ft from 11-15yrs old, and that was just doing leg press and extensions (no squats).


But mainly, as posted by others, the pump just gets addicting. I'm drinking my coffee right now in fact getting ready to get the pump fix.


----------



## Infamous Impact

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> I've been thinking lately about why I started lifting weights, what are your reasons for starting to lift?


First to get in shape, then after finding my talent, for track.
I love lifting in itself though.


----------



## BusinessMan

What in the fuck does this have to do with guitars..?


----------



## TRENCHLORD

BusinessMan said:


> What in the fuck does this have to do with guitars..?


 

We have everything here. Check the various subforum topic titles. 
http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Oh new guys


----------



## soliloquy

i started lifting as working out is one of the few things in my life that shows me results; where i have control over everything i do. i dont like to waste my time in things where i see no payoff. thats what the gym is for me.

as i started working out, my motivation changed a bit, which was to get stronger. then it changed to looking better.

now its a mixture of looking/feeling better and being stronger.


----------



## Furtive Glance

Yeah, for me it's a combination of not wanting to be a anorexic-looking, skinny little bitch, and having total control over what I get out of it. I put in the time, I get what I want. I skimp out, then it's my own fault.

Also, cast iron doesn't complain, talk back, or insult you.


----------



## soliloquy

/\ we are around the same area. i'm from mississauga. you?


and cast iron doesn't, but at times my body insults me  certain parts of my body are disproportionately weaker than other parts of me.


----------



## UnderTheSign

BusinessMan said:


> What in the fuck does this have to do with guitars..?


I guess you don't even lift, huh.

Edit: on a less humorous note, apparently Nasser El Sonbaty, '97 Olympia #2 passed away this Wednesday...


----------



## TRENCHLORD

^That's too bad. He was my favorite of that era, and I really thought he looked better than Dorian for those few years, but the judges disagreed.


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

Nasser was one of the few bodybuilders of that caliber (read: size) who I felt somehow didn't look disgusting (which is weird considering he was known for coming in at like 300lbs at contest), and his physique when he was younger was friggin incredible;






Intelligent guy, and his interviews were always pretty insightful. RIP


----------



## UnderTheSign

I didn't know what he looked like back then! He looked amazing indeed. He joined the size freak trend in the 90's but apart from his waist (nothing compared to the guts these days) he looked great.

I like this photo of him. Total freak.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

That dude is fucking huge, holy shit. RIP
I guess I should probably state my reason as I was the one asking the question.  I started lifting because I knew it would help me for football, and I have always liked the thought of being strong. And then I realized that I was getting bigger and it was really setting me ahead of those who didn't lift. Now's it's an addiction, not quite like music is, but damn close.


----------



## Ibanezsam4

i like to lift because im tired of being a skinny guy and like the convenience of being able to pick up heavy objects safely. 

speaking of which i just got back to the gym this month after a break and im trying out a new routine. i just did arms 2 days ago and i cannot straighten my arms out completely because it is too sore  

cant wait for my body to get back into it


----------



## UnderTheSign

And another passing... Joe Weider, one of the originators of the IFBB, dead at age 93.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

Hell, i didn't realize Joe was damned big in his younger day.
I'll miss his gurgley voice.
RIP, and thanks for the awsome and affordable power rack.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Did hang cleans for the first time today, suprisingly enough I like them more than power cleans. I can do about 10 pounds under my power clean max with them. I almost feel they were easier at times because it forced me to get down low with the weight. 
I've changed up my routine this last month changing back squats for front squats, and now I think I'm gonna start doing hang cleans more often than power cleans.


----------



## UnderTheSign

TRENCHLORD said:


> Hell, i didn't realize Joe was damned big in his younger day.
> I'll miss his gurgley voice.
> RIP, and thanks for the awsome and affordable power rack.


Depending on the pic,he can look pretty big.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> Did hang cleans for the first time today, suprisingly enough I like them more than power cleans. I can do about 10 pounds under my power clean max with them. I almost feel they were easier at times because it forced me to get down low with the weight.
> I've changed up my routine this last month changing back squats for front squats, and now I think I'm gonna start doing hang cleans more often than power cleans.


 
I like hang cleans also .
They're much easier to get a good repping rythm to.
Amazing for ab/core conditioning, but it is easy to get too much swinging motion so it's important to snap them close to straight up.
It's cool to use some quick back rocking to help, but you should always be meeting the bar in a slightly forward braced position with a little bit of knee bend for stability.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Yeah they were definitely nice for a change. I tried to stay as far upright as I could while still being able to pop my hips out nice and hard.


----------



## Uncreative123

TRENCHLORD said:


> ^ what he said.
> 
> Wrists take a beating since they are involved in almost everything, so you just have to be calculated with the wear.
> Also as a guitar player it's double important.
> 
> We get a lot of mass building for arms when we do rows, pullups, bench, shoulders ect..., so very limited heavy isolations for arms are needed for the average non-competing trainer.
> 
> One-arm at a time concentration curls (with your arm braced against inner-thigh and upper-arm angle almost straight vertical) with a moderate weight dumbell going straight into a drop-set with lighter dumbell is a great way to get the biceps frying without killing the wrist.
> 
> Don't rock back at the top because that takes the tension off the peak contraction at the biceps peak.
> 
> With most dumbell stuff I prefer using the glove/wristwrap combination because it helps limit hand slipping when sweaty and also protects the wrist.
> 
> Depends on the dumbells though since there are many styles/sizes of grips.
> 
> I can't stand using gloves with fat grip dumbells or fat barbells either one, which makes having the seperated wrist-wraps very useful.



Kind of backtracking to this, I always remember Arnold saying to go as heavy as possible for biceps and for a long time I did that. I think it's valid to an extent, but I think feeling it, or "the pump" is far more effective. A lot of what I do now is focused on that with lower weight and just focusing on the contraction of the muscle. 

I mean, lol, I'm only curling 35's and it seems to be working alright:


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Damn dude, you've got some swole ass arms in that pic.


----------



## RobPhoboS

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> Did you just wake up one day and find yourself in a gym lifting weights and say to yourself "Fuck it, I guess I'm just gonna keep doing this"
> I mean, what inspired you to start. Like self bettering, improving for a sport, to gain muscle.



Soz, only just saw this thread again !
I don't want to think it's downhill from here (in 30's) - I haven't peaked  so I want to get strong. 
Primarily for practicality, well-being and there's just something about lifting/mma that feels RIGHT !


----------



## Aevolve

So guys- I've been using ON Gold Standard for post workout, and cheap Body Fortress whey isolate in the morning and before I go to bed.

I went to the store and picked up some more Body Fortress, but got the plain whey instead of the isolate. Got home and realized that it has creatine in it.

I'm pretty unfamiliar with creatine- does this mean I shouldn't take it before bed as to not gain extra waterweight?
Also, should I take it before my workout as opposed to afterwards? I know creatine is usually a preworkout.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

Uncreative123 said:


> I mean, lol, I'm only curling 35's and it seems to be working alright:


 

I've seen so many guys doing these with 50s while the elbows move all over the place just to make it possible, and tiny arms to show for it.

It sucks that it takes most of us several years to learn how to utilize the weights as tools for building instead of just big luggy objects for moving .

Inspired, I'm going to hit some of these tonight myself .


----------



## TRENCHLORD

Aevolve said:


> So guys- I've been using ON Gold Standard for post workout, and cheap Body Fortress whey isolate in the morning and before I go to bed.
> 
> I went to the store and picked up some more Body Fortress, but got the plain whey instead of the isolate. Got home and realized that it has creatine in it.
> 
> I'm pretty unfamiliar with creatine- does this mean I shouldn't take it before bed as to not gain extra waterweight?
> Also, should I take it before my workout as opposed to afterwards? I know creatine is usually a preworkout.


 
I'm guessing there's just a gram or two of creatine added to that, so really you should probably treat it as a regular protien sup and not as a creatine sup.
Also, you have a whey isolate (only) protein at wal-mart?
The only ones I've seen are basically 90% whey concentrate, but they throw in a pinch of isolate just so they can claim it an isolate sup.
Very deceptive practice that most brands apply.

It seems quite expensive, but if you buy the big buckets of isopure or another more pure isolate powder you actually end up paying about the same per serving as most of the lessor products in small containers.
The difference in biological value is HUGE.


----------



## Aevolve

TRENCHLORD said:


> I'm guessing there's just a gram or two of creatine added to that, so really you should probably treat it as a regular protien sup and not as a creatine sup.
> Also, you have a whey isolate (only) protein at wal-mart?
> The only ones I've seen are basically 90% whey concentrate, but they throw in a pinch of isolate just so they can claim it an isolate sup.
> Very deceptive practice that most brands apply.
> 
> It seems quite expensive, but if you buy the big buckets of isopure or another more pure isolate powder you actually end up paying about the same per serving as most of the lessor products in small containers.
> The difference in biological value is HUGE.



(Other than ON) they're definitely not brands I plan on sticking with, just a broke college student at the moment and don't have much of a choice. I'll look into isopure though, thanks man.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

Aevolve said:


> (Other than ON) they're definitely not brands I plan on sticking with, just a broke college student at the moment and don't have much of a choice. I'll look into isopure though, thanks man.


 
I know the feeling atm . I've been going sup free since last summer.
If you don't have any problems drinking milk then chugging a glass with most meals is a great natural protein booster (skim or 1% of course).


----------



## Aevolve

TRENCHLORD said:


> I know the feeling atm . I've been going sup free since last summer.
> If you don't have any problems drinking milk then chugging a glass with most meals is a great natural protein booster (skim or 1% of course).



I have two (>pint) glasses of 2% (uni doesn't have 1%) with lunch and dinner daily.


----------



## m3l-mrq3z

OK so I have gotten a little bit stronger in the last few weeks. I am finally able to bench 176 lbs (80 kg) and soon I should be lifting my own weight in the bench bank. It feels great to see improvements after two months of training.


----------



## soliloquy

i just renewed my gym membership. but i'm wondering if i should do P90X. i dont want to waste my membership...but i would also like to use body weights for a brief time and work out all my supporting muscles to ultimately get stronger...


----------



## RobPhoboS

soliloquy said:


> i just renewed my gym membership. but i'm wondering if i should do P90X. i dont want to waste my membership...but i would also like to use body weights for a brief time and work out all my supporting muscles to ultimately get stronger...



Personally I don't like that stuff but it's always worth trying out to see how you get on.
I'd recommend doing a strength training program with the basic barbell moves to get your core strength up (stronglifts is good).


----------



## UnderTheSign

soliloquy said:


> i just renewed my gym membership. but i'm wondering if i should do P90X. i dont want to waste my membership...but i would also like to use body weights for a brief time and work out all my supporting muscles to ultimately get stronger...


I feel there's a difference between stuff like P90X and actual lifting in the gym. P90X to me seems useful to get you "in shape", a proper gym routine will get you bigger and stronger. If your split is good, you'll work your supporting muscles and get stronger as well, it's not like P90X is unique in that aspect.


----------



## Greatoliver

^I've always kind of wondered what having a woman like that in bed would be like 


On topic, got back to the gym after a couple of weeks off and did a 5x5 session to get back into the swing. Feels good


----------



## Aevolve

Murmel said:


> I don't know what you buys think about female's being buff as hell, but I thought I'd share this 8 time world champion armwrestler, Sarah Bäckman.
> 
> She's fucking nuts



Strangely attractive. Hmm.


----------



## UnderTheSign

I think she's damn good looking save for her chest.


----------



## Idontpersonally

Aevolve said:


> Strangely attractive. Hmm.



Yea I was never really attracted to muscular women until I started lifting..*shrug* idk what that is


----------



## Aevolve

Idontpersonally said:


> Yea I was never really attracted to muscular women until I started lifting..*shrug* idk what that is



Me either. Now I see a girl deadlifting and start to spasm a little bit.


----------



## Murmel

Totally mirin' her shoulders 






For some reason, googling her makes me motivated as fuck


----------



## Idontpersonally

yea that may be the thing for me as well, motivation. What i used to think was an unattractive amount of muscle looks good to me now.

Jw. has anyone had to try to convince a girl to workout or go to the gym with you how do they usually take it? I cant think of a good way to bring it up without the girl thinking im calling her fat or out of shape or something.


----------



## Chickenhawk

Idontpersonally said:


> yea that may be the thing for me as well, motivation. What i used to think was an unattractive amount of muscle looks good to me now.
> 
> Jw. has anyone had to try to convince a girl to workout or go to the gym with you how do they usually take it? I cant think of a good way to bring it up without the girl thinking im calling her fat or out of shape or something.



Let her know your routine (or a routine you can think of) is hard as hell. If she likes a challenge, she'll be all over it. Maybe poke the fire a little by saying you don't think she can do it.

My wife is a bit overweight, but she motivated herself to go to the gym (mid-30s, two kids, very stressful/demanding job that offers very little accomidations for healthy eating, and a thyroid condition). I rarely have to say anything. When I feel she's slacking off, I tell her I found some new 'program' that'll kick her ass, and she's all over it. And it always kicks her ass  She's goes well out of her way to do what she can, though. 

These 'programs' are almost always those 'get in shape for your military PT test' things. Lots of pushups, situps (and all the variations), burpees, and air squats. I think she knows what I'm doing, but it breaks her out of her routine so things aren't so boring for a couple days. Always good to try new things every once in a while. Break up the monotony. 


But, take my advice with a few hundred grains of salt. I refuse to associate with anybody that is self-conscious. And I damned sure can't be with a woman that responds to any criticism with "So you're saying I'm fat?"

...because my response is usually "...yes. Don't you own a mirror?"

Might be why my wife and I get along so well. We're fairly blunt. And both of us always strive to improve. More than once I've mentioned that I've noticed her slacking off on her cardio, or not doing enough reps, or whatever. Pisses her off, but she'll do another 15 minutes on the elliptical, or grab heavier weights.


----------



## Idontpersonally

Damn dude thanks i dont feel so bad now. It's like if a woman is self concious about her body and weight its like the easiest thing to change and it feels good imo I am a friggin magnet to these types for some reason. She ended up taking it so personally and went with another guy who she said liked her how she was and i wasnt saying i didnt like her the way she was it was just something i thought we both could do, spend time, get fit, i wasnt very motivated enough to start on my own.
I didnt get into lifting until another girl i was with basically gave me a taste of my own medicine and bluntly told me to hit the gym. So i did without thinking twice about it.


----------



## Chickenhawk

*WARNING: RANT MODE, not directed at anybody. Just some examples, and a peek inside my mentality. *


"He needs to love me for who I am, nobody will change me".

That's cool. I don't want anything to do with you unless who you are is a person that strives to constantly become a better person, and isn't someone using that phrase to justify being lazy, inconsiderate, uneducated, ignorant, or a fat sack of shit.

Are you fat? Cool, acknowledge it. Do you not want to be fat anymore? Sweet, do some fucking burpees. 

Are you super skinny? Alright, acknowledge it. Do you want to not be so frail anymore? Do some fucking burpees.

Are you generally unhappy with your appearance, but take it out on others by saying "They don't love me for who I am" while being a self-loathing yet superficial, lazy husk of a person? Piss off, and while you're at it, do some fucking burpees.

Hell, my mom is 65, has stage 3B lung cancer with zero use of her right lung. Chemo every Tuesday, radiation Monday through Friday. She also does yoga every Wednesday. 

She admits she got lung cancer because she smoked her whole life. The day she was diagnosed, she quit (as did most of the family), and has kept her eyes on the goal; No cancer, and get into better health. 

My father is 62, had polio in his right leg (crippled his foot, and seriously hindered his ability to build muscle in his right calf) as a kid. Retired from the Army after 21 and a half years with a green beret, airborne wings, two purple hearts, combat and expert medical badges, pathfinder, Vietnam campaign ribbon, is about to retire as the fastest promoted Major in the State Department of Corrections, and holds qualifications as an FBI Hostage Negotiation Trainer. 

All while having a shitty gimp leg, and has had severe arthritis in most of his joints. 

No excuses, eyes on the goal; To be the absolute best at his trade that he could be. He survived Vietnam with multiple medals for Valor, became a very well respected member of the Army medical community, and even went on to help establish the Combat Lifesaver Program (the first responder program almost every soldier goes though now). He got done with the Army, and became the absolute best he could in the State Correctional system. Fastest promoted officer in history. Topped out at Major (highest officer rank), so he reached out to other agencies to learn more (FBI, Highway Patrol, Police Academy, etc). 


^ That might explain why I don't usually care what peoples 'excuses' and 'reasons' are when they try to explain why they 'can't lose the weight'. 

You could have a serious medical condition that causes you to gain weight easily, and makes it extremely hard to shed the pounds. My sister does, and she still gives it 100% by eating as healthy as she can, and she goes on walks 4 times a week. Running / jogging isn't a viable option. She admits that she's overweight, but she's not un-healthy. She also doesn't bitch about her weight. She used to, a few years ago when she was ~100lbs heavier, but she did something about it and has gotten to a place she can be content.

My wife has a thyroid issue that causes her to gain weight rapidly. She figured out the problem, takes her pill every morning, watches what she eats, and works her ass off at the gym. She also earned her Masters Degree while working full time and raising two kids on her own (her ex-husband was zero help, and actually a burden since he refused to help the family financially, even though one of the kids was his).

Now she works 6-7 days a week, still raising two kids (I help out as much as I possibly can..ya know...since I'm her husband...and not a fucking douche bag), and still finds time to take her happy ass to the gym.

I have no idea what I'm trying to say with this rant...but I had to get it off my chest, I figure. I hear so many people make excuses for themselves in the same breath they bitch about hating themselves for being overweight/out of shape/underweight. Never once have I heard an 'excuse' that I would classify as a 'reason' to why they can't, and I gladly share the stories of my parents, who never made excuses for SHIT, and just got shit done. 

Laziness pisses me off. 

EDIT:

Oh yea, the moral of the story: Accountability. If people would hold themselves accountable, this world would kick ass. Instead they blame the system, blame work, blame genetics (which in most cases they've been dealt a fine hand, genetically), blame fast food (that nobody forces them to eat), blame this, blame that...blame their boyfriend for calling them fat and depressing them.

Never blaming themselves. Shame.

And if you read this entire thing, do some fucking burpess


----------



## Idontpersonally

yea that was pretty epic dude i agree, Id love to be able to be honest about that with women without them getting all butthurt. By far the worst excuse i have ever heard was this woman i was kind of into that actually believe her astrological placements, like zodiac/retrograde/ moons n shit caused her to gain weight/ couldnt loose it. She was attractive funny and smart but that mentality just completely turned me off. I felt kind of bad but completely stopped talking to her [ we were both into astrology but ever since i heard that i said fuck astrology]. I can only imagine how you'd handle that excuse 
Im used to self conscious women [its always usually a mole or scar or something they cant get over] i should be a certified therapist by now 
I feel like i got off to a late start but it was more that i didnt realize how much i could push myself until i wanted to start playing out live and didnt want to look all out of shape on stage. Personally i think it helped my playing too.


----------



## Chickenhawk

Idontpersonally said:


> I can only imagine how you'd handle that excuse



Eh, I wouldn't have. I've gotten really good at smiling and walking away.



> I feel like i got off to a late start but it was more that i didnt realize how much i could push myself until i wanted to start playing out live and didnt want to look all out of shape on stage. Personally i think it helped my playing too.



Don't feel bad, I didn't start actually pushing myself till a couple months ago. And honestly, the first few weeks were pretty crappy. Light weights, low reps. Just getting used to actually doing stuff again. 

Now? Fuck...it's on 

It's a shame I didn't have my current mentality when I was in the Army. Would have made things a bit easier on me  

I was graced by having amazing parents when I was younger, though, who pushed me to do my best in martial arts (age 5 till about 18). Never really cared about actual strength, though. Just how flexible I was, how fast I was, how good my stamina was. Never needed to be strong.

Still don't NEED to be any stronger than I am now, but I have no reason NOT to get stronger. I have no reason NOT to improve my cardio (at least to the point I was at my best in the Army)...again, no reason NOT to improve my overall health.

Hell, it really doesn't matter what your reason to start working out is, because as long as you give it your all, your reason to KEEP working out will be obvious.


----------



## Uncreative123

Idontpersonally said:


> yea that may be the thing for me as well, motivation. What i used to think was an unattractive amount of muscle looks good to me now.
> 
> Jw. has anyone had to try to convince a girl to workout or go to the gym with you how do they usually take it? I cant think of a good way to bring it up without the girl thinking im calling her fat or out of shape or something.




This article is everything you need to know:
T NATION | 3 Steps to Getting Your Girl to Train



I'm convinced however, that women actually have to WANT to workout- it's not enough for them to just want to look good. My last girlfriend/ex-fiance' constantly said she would workout and all that bullshit, and in 6 1/2 years went with me maybe 5 times. 
My current girlfriend has gone with me every day for the last two months. She wants to go. There's no asking. And we have fun. And she has better abs than me.
Both of them are skinny, but my current one has a history of being active through cheerleading and volleyball whereas the other one was always kind of lazy and I think that makes a big difference too. If they're use to being lazy or sedentary it's going to be very difficult to break them of that.


----------



## Majkel

Murmel said:


>



Might interest you guys to know that Sarah just signed on with WWE (or whatever the wrestling federation is called) as a development deal, so if things work out for her we should be seeing her in the ring in a year or so! 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...ing-swedish-female-arm-wrestler-sarah-backman


----------



## Murmel

^
Really? Damn.

I hope she doesn't ruin her face/body with plastic surgery though. Would be a total shame.


----------



## Aevolve

Murmel said:


> ^
> Really? Damn.
> 
> I hope she doesn't ruin her face/body with plastic surgery though. Would be a total shame.



+1


----------



## UnderTheSign

If anyone else has been having shoulder issues (like I have), I can totally recommend this. It's simple, quick and highly effective.
Band Pull-Apart Super Series for Healthy Shoulders


----------



## ghostred7

My gf/wife/insert title here (after 9 years....it's whatever lol) is actually who got us back into working out. We both have grown to be disgusting fat-bodies. Her motivation is that she wants to get healthy so we can create a spawn and be able to actually enjoy him/her.

In lighter news...we both have lost ~13lbs since Mar 4.


----------



## Rykov

Chickenhawk said:


> Are you fat? Cool, acknowledge it. Do you not want to be fat anymore? Sweet, do some fucking burpees.
> 
> Are you super skinny? Alright, acknowledge it. Do you want to not be so frail anymore? Do some fucking burpees.
> 
> Are you generally unhappy with your appearance, but take it out on others by saying "They don't love me for who I am" while being a self-loathing yet superficial, lazy husk of a person? Piss off, and while you're at it, do some fucking burpees.



... I think 'do some fucking burpees' might just be my catch-all solution to any problem I come against from now on.


----------



## Fiction

I have also just recently, 30 seconds ago in fact, adopted the saying "do some fucking burpees".


----------



## soliloquy

Bodybuilding.com has a 20% off deal today. Im getting a free 5lbs dynatize iso100 for free...might as well


----------



## m3l-mrq3z

I am so close to being able to bench 200 pounds! And "only" after three months of being at the gym (this Sunday will see the end of my third month of training). 

I felt so stupid today for having neglected squats and deadlifts, as well as core exercises for so long. This kind of exercises is where it's at. 

I have also noticed that really paying attention to what you eat makes you feel both better and stronger. Had I quitted chips, pizza, burgers and shitty food products months ago, I would have been able to achieve greater results in these 3 months. I can't wait to see how I will look like in two months...

Yes, I am obsessed with body building


----------



## Uncreative123

soliloquy said:


> Bodybuilding.com has a 20% off deal today. Im getting a free 5lbs dynatize iso100 for free...might as well




Thank you for this; placing an order now....


----------



## soliloquy

i'm waiting on my brother in law. as soon as he replies if he wants anything or not, i'm placing an order on 4 tubs of protein, 2 tubs of bcaas and a case of multivitamins


----------



## Chickenhawk

Rykov said:


> ... I think 'do some fucking burpees' might just be my catch-all solution to any problem I come against from now on.





Fiction said:


> I have also just recently, 30 seconds ago in fact, adopted the saying "do some fucking burpees".



Awesome.

I'm slowly trying to destroy the 'brah' mentality at the gym, and get people to actually fucking workout. I can't tell you how many fuckers I see standing around talking right next to the damn weights I need, or the machine I want. I used to be polite, but they don't learn.

Now it usually goes like this:

Me: "Hey, you gonna just that machine?"
Brah: "Yea, I'm doing circuits"
Me: "No you're not, go do some fucking burpees, I've got weight to move"

It seems to baffle them that I go to the gym to actually work out. I also was asked today why I was doing curls with 'only' 35lb dumbells. "You should be able to curl AT LEAST 60lbs man."...I let him know that I plan on doing more than 4 curls today. He didn't seem to understand.

Fucking jackasses. Was funny when one of my workout buddies showed up. He in his 60's, been a highway patrolman for decades, and when it's time to lift weights, it's time to lift some fucking weights. They got out of the way pretty quick when he told them to unass themselves from the area and go do something productive...like some fucking burpees


----------



## soliloquy

also, do ZMAs work? 
i'm about 3/4th down the first case, and i haven't noticed any dreams. i have gotten stronger, but i'm not sure if its due to me hitting the gym harder or ZMA...i dont sleep any better either


----------



## Triple-J

I find ZMA works better if you take it on an empty stomach with a glass of water but recently I've begun washing it down with one of those vitamin C tabs that dissolve in water (Vitamin C fights cortisol so in theory it should aid relaxation) I use it mon-fri and have the weekends off but I haven't noticed any weird dreams though cause it tends to put me in an incredibly deep sleep which suits me fine because I'm a very light sleeper anyway. 

Sleep recovery products in my experience are kind of tricky though as I've tried quite a few of them in the past and some have worked but most have been of no help at all and even kept me awake but for some reason a bottle of cheap basic ZMA works fine for me.


----------



## soliloquy

maybe thats where i'm going wrong. i usually chug down a protein shake with fish oil pills, multivit, and zma all at once before i sleep...


----------



## Triple-J

I'm not 100% on the science behind it but apparently the type of calcium in whey/dairy products disrupts the effects of ZMA because milk calcium blocks the absorption of the zinc in ZMA.


----------



## Rykov

m3l-mrq3z said:


> I am so close to being able to bench 200 pounds! And "only" after three months of being at the gym (this Sunday will see the end of my third month of training).



Goddamn. I've been hitting the gym 3-4 times a week for some four months now and I struggle to bench 90x10 on a good day...

Anyway, I have a question for all involved: just how effective are protein shakes/supplements/things like Muscle Milk? What's the best way to maximise the benefits of such supplements?


----------



## m3l-mrq3z

Rykov said:


> Goddamn. I've been hitting the gym 3-4 times a week for some four months now and I struggle to bench 90x10 on a good day...
> 
> Anyway, I have a question for all involved: just how effective are protein shakes/supplements/things like Muscle Milk? What's the best way to maximise the benefits of such supplements?



90x10?


----------



## Fiction

I do 3 sets of 12 with 50kgs (125lbs) and that's after about 5 months 

So, very badass progression m3l!


----------



## m3l-mrq3z

Fiction said:


> I do 3 sets of 12 with 50kgs (125lbs) and that's after about 5 months
> 
> So, very badass progression m3l!



50 kgs including the bar?


----------



## Scar Symmetry

soliloquy said:


> maybe thats where i'm going wrong. i usually chug down a protein shake with fish oil pills, multivit, and zma all at once before i sleep...



Yup same here. I feel great at the moment!


----------



## The Analyst

Rykov said:


> Anyway, I have a question for all involved: just how effective are protein shakes/supplements/things like Muscle Milk? What's the best way to maximise the benefits of such supplements?



What are your goals? Muscle Milk is generally used for people who are bulking. It tastes pretty good, but I'm not really a fan of the profile. It's not really a good value either. There are better protein blends to be had. For example; TruNutrition Sciences - Trutein or Xtreme Formulations Ultra Peptide. 

The best way to maximize the benefits is getting your diet in check. All that matters is that you hit your daily macros. If it helps you hit your protein,fat levels, carbs, and calories for the day, then yes! It will work.


----------



## Rykov

m3l-mrq3z said:


> 90x10?



Ten reps with ninety pounds. My attempts to use (what I thought was) weight-lifting lingo fall through yet again! 



The Analyst said:


> What are your goals? Muscle Milk is generally used for people who are bulking. It tastes pretty good, but I'm not really a fan of the profile. It's not really a good value either. There are better protein blends to be had. For example; TruNutrition Sciences - Trutein or Xtreme Formulations Ultra Peptide.
> 
> The best way to maximize the benefits is getting your diet in check. All that matters is that you hit your daily macros. If it helps you hit your protein,fat levels, carbs, and calories for the day, then yes! It will work.



I would say I'm trying to bulk up, yes. I have REALLY skinny arms-- at least taking into account that I do work out... like I said, I've been lifting weights three to four times a week for nearly four months now, but I don't feel like it shows. Again, I am a complete amateur and new to weight-lifting/fitness, which I didn't do much of up until maybe eight or so months ago (the months prior to the gym subscription consisted solely of push-ups, crunches, and one twenty five pound dumbbell, and not much progress was made then either :v), so I may be overestimating the results I should be expecting this far in.

I've read frequently that salmon, eggs, and peanut butter, among other things, are the best foods to eat to 'bulk up'. Do you (or anybody else) have some dietary advice-- what to eat, how much of it, etc? I'd be most appreciative of the advice.


----------



## m3l-mrq3z

To the guy above: some people will tell you "eat as much as you can". The truth is, that is one unspecific piece of advice. You need to increase your calorie intake. Do learn the difference between "bad" and "good" fats. If you are as skinny as you say, you might need to get a bit "fat" in order to truly bulk up. I used to be a very skinny guy in my teens but my metabolism changed as soon as I turned 20 so I had the chance to put on some weight. 

Try to keep things as natural as possible. You might end up ruining your liver by using lots of supplements. Do eat eggs (wonderful source of energy), avocados (great source of good fats), fish, chicken (don't eat pork, seriously), salmon is also very good, Greek yoghurt before/after your workout is also very effective. 

Avoid chips, burgers, hotdogs and all that processed stuff. Avoid white bread, normal pasta and white sugar. Lower your alcohol consumption and for John Petrucci's sake, don't drink coke. Some people think that drinking either coke or red bull before a workout will make them achieve more. Bollocks. 

Regarding strength:
One of the mistakes beginners make is that they think isolated exercises (for example triceps extensions and curls) will increase their strength in no time. The best way to becoem stronger is by either doing squats, deadlifts, bench presses, pull ups and shoulder presses. Don't ignore the importance of your core. This is an area that often gets neglected, even by advanced gym-goers. 

I have noticed a dramatical increase in my strength in the last months. This is a byproduct of using more weight while doing less reps and eating fish everyday along with oats and almonds. I have also come to realize that both triceps extensions and the shoulder press do wonders for your bench press.


----------



## The Analyst

Very good advise all around, m3l-mrq3z! Also, using more weight while doing less reps like A 5X5 routine is a great way to build strength fast. Once you can do about 8 reps, you should increase the weight.


----------



## m3l-mrq3z

Yeah, 5x5 is the way to go. Anything around 30 reps is good both for hypertrophy and strength.


----------



## Fiction

@M3l, Yeah that's including the bar. I could probably get an extra 10-20(?)kgs on there if it was reps of 5, although I've never tried doing short rep sets.


----------



## Rykov

m3l-mrq3z said:


> To the guy above: some people will tell you "eat as much as you can". The truth is, that is one unspecific piece of advice. You need to increase your calorie intake. Do learn the difference between "bad" and "good" fats. If you are as skinny as you say, you might need to get a bit "fat" in order to truly bulk up. I used to be a very skinny guy in my teens but my metabolism changed as soon as I turned 20 so I had the chance to put on some weight.
> 
> Try to keep things as natural as possible. You might end up ruining your liver by using lots of supplements. Do eat eggs (wonderful source of energy), avocados (great source of good fats), fish, chicken (don't eat pork, seriously), salmon is also very good, Greek yoghurt before/after your workout is also very effective.
> 
> Avoid chips, burgers, hotdogs and all that processed stuff. Avoid white bread, normal pasta and white sugar. Lower your alcohol consumption and for John Petrucci's sake, don't drink coke. Some people think that drinking either coke or red bull before a workout will make them achieve more. Bollocks.



Metabolism may well actually be my problem, as a teenager not far from the twenty year mark. At this age, for a guy trying to get bigger, it really is a curse, but not one it seems I can do much about. Thanks for the dietary tips.


----------



## Chickenhawk

5x5 is the way to go for damn near anything (in my opinion).

Damn near everything I do is 5x5, with the occasional 3x12 thrown in.

Usually when I'm doing 5x5 the first one is a drop set, then regular. Hell, even my 'super hypertrophy' 12 rep sets start with a drop set to get the blood pumping. Gotta look good for myself in the mirror to offset the horrible fucking faces I make


----------



## m3l-mrq3z

Fiction said:


> @M3l, Yeah that's including the bar. I could probably get an extra 10-20(?)kgs on there if it was reps of 5, although I've never tried doing short rep sets.



Do you not have a training partner? Either find one or ask someone to spot you. Unless you push yourself to lift heavier, you are not going to make improvements anytime soon.



Rykov said:


> Metabolism may well actually be my problem, as a teenager not far from the twenty year mark. At this age, for a guy trying to get bigger, it really is a curse, but not one it seems I can do much about. Thanks for the dietary tips.



Are you an ectomorph? Even if you were, you could still gain mass. You just need to eat the right things. 

I forgot to mention bananas. Throw in some banana slices into the bender so that your protein shake has some potasium. It increases energy and will let you make the most of your workout.


----------



## Fiction

I'm not actually aiming to lift heavier, I thought you were doing like 3x10 sets or something which surprised me, I seem only hear about 5x5s from people who have been lifting for more than 3 months


----------



## m3l-mrq3z

3x10 is what you do as a beginner or as someone who is interested in muscle growth/definition. Once you feel confident, you start using more weight.

Did I already point that soja products ought to be avoided less you want your testosterone levels to decrease?


----------



## Murmel

Finally starting to get back into my routine after having been unable to hit the gym properly the first quarter of 2013. Now to bulk like mad.


----------



## UnderTheSign

m3l-mrq3z said:


> 3x10 is what you do as a beginner or as someone who is interested in muscle growth/definition. Once you feel confident, you start using more weight.
> 
> Did I already point that soja products ought to be avoided less you want your testosterone levels to decrease?


You didn't but the soy discussion is endless and terribly boring so please don't.


----------



## soliloquy

starting a new job on monday. that will throw off my work out routine a bit. being the one who prefers working out alone, where i have one bench from the begining to the end of my workout without ANYONE taking it, same goes for the weights, i generally prefer working out in the morning. but now that i'll be working mornings...i'll have to share my gym with everyone else...

sometimes i hate being anti-social in gyms! mostly i love it...but now i'm gonna hate it


----------



## TRENCHLORD

Fiction said:


> I'm not actually aiming to lift heavier, I thought you were doing like 3x10 sets or something which surprised me, I seem only hear about 5x5s from people who have been lifting for more than 3 months


 
5 x 5 is just a catch all really. It ensures adequate weight and adequate volume both.
Time under load/tension is actually the more important factor as far as the volume aspect, which is why a number of rep schemes seem to work provided you're going heavy enough. That's why rep style/speed is also a big part of the equation. 
5 x 5 is a great place to start, but you'll want to judge for yourself whatever it requires to induce some good soreness the next day.


----------



## Rykov

m3l-mrq3z said:


> Are you an ectomorph? Even if you were, you could still gain mass. You just need to eat the right things.
> 
> I forgot to mention bananas. Throw in some banana slices into the bender so that your protein shake has some potasium. It increases energy and will let you make the most of your workout.



I'm gonna guess, all things considered, that I probably am an ectomorph. I have to work out often just to be something like average in build and if I don't I end up so skinny I might as well be the definition of skinny bones :v It really gets on my nerves. Hope that changes when I hit twenty...

Have no experience with protein shakes, but if they're a big help, I'll look into them.


----------



## m3l-mrq3z

Don't give yourself a hardtime for being (presumably) an ectomorph. Zyzz was one. And look what he achieved.

Sure, sure, he used steroids, but still.


----------



## Chickenhawk

m3l-mrq3z said:


> Don't give yourself a hardtime for being (presumably) an ectomorph. Zyzz was one. And look what he achieved.
> 
> Sure, sure, he used *A LOT* of steroids, but still.



FTFY.


----------



## Rykov

m3l-mrq3z said:


> Don't give yourself a hardtime for being (presumably) an ectomorph. Zyzz was one. And look what he achieved.
> 
> Sure, sure, he used steroids, but still.



Not sure if I should feel reassured or even more disconcerted :v


----------



## m3l-mrq3z

Chickenhawk said:


> FTFY.



He was doing cycles. He didn't look that anabolic, to be honest.



Rykov said:


> Not sure if I should feel reassured or even more disconcerted :v



It is indeed harder to build muscle if you are genetically determined to be skinny. But then again, I was very skinny when growing up. Now my metabolism has changed and it's relatively easy for me to build muscle.


----------



## Chickenhawk

m3l-mrq3z said:


> He was doing cycles. He didn't look that anabolic, to be honest.



Eh, they all cycle. He didn't have the "Holy shit that guy juiced his dick off" look like Ronnie Coleman or Jay Cutler, but he still juiced his fucking eyes off.


----------



## m3l-mrq3z

Chickenhawk said:


> Eh, they all cycle. He didn't have the "*Holy shit that guy juiced his dick off*" look like Ronnie Coleman or Jay Cutler, but he still juiced his fucking eyes off.


----------



## Uncreative123

Chickenhawk said:


> Eh, they all cycle. He didn't have the "Holy shit that guy juiced his dick off" look like Ronnie Coleman or Jay Cutler, but he still juiced his fucking eyes off.




You really have a poor understanding of what you're talking about. That actually goes for the both of you.

Saying somebody "looks anabolic" doesn't even make sense. Your body, along with everyone elses, is always either in an anabolic or catabolic state. I'm not sure how you tell whether a 400 lb man or a 16 year old anorexic girl is anabolic simply by looking at them. 

"he was doing cycles"- doesn't make sense either.

Neither of you, or anyone for that matter, knows exactly what he was on. I remember hearing about Clen for sure and maybe Tren, but clen isn't even an anabolic steroid, so that's irrelevant. I don't doubt for a second he ran a bunch of gear and I really don't care. I never gave a shit about zyzz and don't to this day. I don't understand the fanboyism over this person nor do I want to. But what I do care about is why you guys are trying to steer this thread into an excuse to talk about something neither of you are educated on.


I almost said something about the pre-workout bananas but figured I'd hold out until it was really warranted.


----------



## m3l-mrq3z

Uncreative123 said:


> You really have a poor understanding of what you're talking about. That actually goes for the both of you.
> .



None of us ever claimed to be experts in this field. 



Uncreative123 said:


> Y
> Saying somebody "looks anabolic" doesn't even make sense.



It is probably the wrong way to say that someone doesn't look natural due to the use of anabolic stereoids. 




Uncreative123 said:


> "he was doing cycles"- doesn't make sense either.



Once again: I should've chosen a better way to say that Zyzz was using stereoids sporadically, same as his brother. He himself admitted to doing that. 




Uncreative123 said:


> Neither of you, or anyone for that matter, knows exactly what he was on. I remember hearing about Clen for sure and maybe Tren, but clen isn't even an anabolic steroid, so that's irrelevant. I don't doubt for a second he ran a bunch of gear and I really don't care.



It's not relevant to knw what he was on. People were dissapointed to hear he was not 100% natural, and that's what we were talking about.




Uncreative123 said:


> never gave a shit about zyzz and don't to this day. I don't understand the fanboyism over this person nor do I want to. But what I do care about is why you guys are trying to steer this thread into an excuse to talk about something neither of you are educated on.
> .



None of us is trying to turn this thread into the 1000th thread on Zyzz. Or stereoids abuse, for that matter.



Uncreative123 said:


> I almost said something about the pre-workout bananas but figured I'd hold out until it was really warranted.



You mean you are not 100% sure that eating a banana before a workout is a good thing to do?


----------



## Chickenhawk

Uncreative123 said:


> You really have a poor understanding of what you're talking about. That actually goes for the both of you.
> 
> Saying somebody "looks anabolic" doesn't even make sense. Your body, along with everyone elses, is always either in an anabolic or catabolic state. I'm not sure how you tell whether a 400 lb man or a 16 year old anorexic girl is anabolic simply by looking at them.
> 
> "he was doing cycles"- doesn't make sense either.
> 
> Neither of you, or anyone for that matter, knows exactly what he was on. I remember hearing about Clen for sure and maybe Tren, but clen isn't even an anabolic steroid, so that's irrelevant. I don't doubt for a second he ran a bunch of gear and I really don't care. I never gave a shit about zyzz and don't to this day. I don't understand the fanboyism over this person nor do I want to. But what I do care about is why you guys are trying to steer this thread into an excuse to talk about something neither of you are educated on.
> 
> 
> I almost said something about the pre-workout bananas but figured I'd hold out until it was really warranted.



I made a joke, calm down. 

Let me explain the joke for you: Looking anabolic, like Cutler or Coleman, means to be massively huge. Almost unnaturally big. Having muscles so large they hinder your ability to do other tasks, such as certain sports, and wiping your own ass.

Ya'know...the stereotypical physique that comes to most peoples minds when the words "steroid" or "anabolic" are used. Zyzz didn't have that look.

And no, I'm not a Zyzz fanboy. I couldn't stand that idiot.

EDIT: Me making a joke about something doesn't automatically mean I know nothing about the subject, FYI.


----------



## the hittmann

Chickenhawk said:


> I made a joke, calm down.
> 
> Let me explain the joke for you: Looking anabolic, like Cutler or Coleman, means to be massively huge. Almost unnaturally big. Having muscles so large they hinder your ability to do other tasks, such as certain sports, and wiping your own ass.
> 
> Ya'know...the stereotypical physique that comes to most peoples minds when the words "steroid" or "anabolic" are used. Zyzz didn't have that look.
> 
> And no, I'm not a Zyzz fanboy. I couldn't stand that idiot.
> 
> EDIT: Me making a joke about something doesn't automatically mean I know nothing about the subject, FYI.


Anabolic by definition is the phase of metabolism in which simple substances are synthesized into the complex materials of living tissue. The joke makes no sense. You can't see the state of a persons metabolism.

I agree with uncreative, none of you have a clue on the subject, neither how widespread it is. 

As far as zyzz goes it was more about his lifestyle than him personally. He got so big(fanwise) because he was on the forefront of the recent boom of want to be fitness models.


----------



## Chickenhawk

the hittmann said:


> Anabolic by definition is the phase of metabolism in which simple substances are synthesized into the complex materials of living tissue. The joke makes no sense. You can't see the state of a persons metabolism.





Thanks for the definition, and for letting me know how little I know about steroids and their usage.


----------



## Uncreative123

Chickenhawk said:


> Thanks for the definition, and for letting me know how little I know about steroids and their usage.





Are you acting like a brat because you're embarrassed about being called out for saying things you shouldn't have said and know nothing about? You really do know nothing about AS and its usage- so I don't know why you're rolling your eyes or being sarcastic when you've made it very clear that you don't know what you're talking about. 

Why don't you try acting like an adult and own up to your mistake instead of whatever it is you're trying to do here. You'll save a lot more face by admitting your mistake versus digging deeper.


----------



## Greatoliver

^Can you take this to pm please? Steroids are a massive can of worms and it would be nice to keep this thread away from the often circular discussions IMHO. Thanks


----------



## Chickenhawk

Uncreative123 said:


> Are you acting like a brat because you're embarrassed about being called out for saying things you shouldn't have said and know nothing about? You really do know nothing about AS and its usage- so I don't know why you're rolling your eyes or being sarcastic when you've made it very clear that you don't know what you're talking about.
> 
> Why don't you try acting like an adult and own up to your mistake instead of whatever it is you're trying to do here. You'll save a lot more face by admitting your mistake versus digging deeper.



Drop it, quit trying to pick a fight. 

You didn't like the joke, that's fine. Move on. Going out of your way to tell me that you know more than I do about steroids will prove nothing.

I made no mistake. I made a joke. Never once did I say anybody was wrong about the definition of anabolic. Quit taking shit so fucking serious.


----------



## UnderTheSign

Sort-of progress after not training actively for a couple of months. Strenght training so I care more about deadlifting more than guns... But looking better is a plus I guess. After being skinny all my life, I don't even mind having some belly fat.


----------



## Winspear

So this is probably the 3rd post or so that I've made complaining about my lack of progress 

I was doing really well building size and strength around February last year. I'd put on about 30lb and decided to work off some fat and get some definition going. I did a very controlled slow cut until I had the definition I wanted...unfortunately that lasted all summer and left me small as fuck  Since then in my final year of my audio degree I haven't managed to put on any weight or strength at all. I work 3 nights a week (Fri,Sat,Sun) - coupled with my gym opening times that means I can't train weekends. My aim has been to train Tue Wed Thur or Mon Wed Thur. Some weeks I manage that along with getting the food I want, then I'll end up barely eating for a month and only hitting the gym once a week..I can't count the amount of times I've said "Right, this week - it starts" this year, only to crash a week or two later.
Just trying to balance out coursework, studio sessions etc - running round during the day buying fast food trying to reach my calories but still getting nowhere near. Hell - between February and April I didn't eat an actual meal at home once  Hell, I find myself getting out of bed straight into my chair and realising 6 hours later I haven't eaten, drunk, or showered. I barely get hungry anymore and when I do I don't notice it.

Oh well...I finish uni soon. Going to be hitting the gym hard 4 or 5 days a week from 1st June and hopefully I'll be back to where I was and reach 100kg bench before the end of the year.


----------



## m3l-mrq3z

UnderTheSign said:


> Sort-of progress after not training actively for a couple of months. Strenght training so I care more about deadlifting more than guns... But looking better is a plus I guess. After being skinny all my life, I don't even mind having some belly fat.




Sexy.


----------



## UnderTheSign

m3l-mrq3z said:


> Sexy.


I draped the towel just like that because I knew someone would like it!


----------



## TRENCHLORD

^ We've got bush, pan down lol. (R.O.T.N. movie)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWshbNTYVqg


----------



## TheKindred

Uncreative123 said:


> I almost said something about the pre-workout bananas but figured I'd hold out until it was really warranted.



if you have good info/insight regarding this, I'd be keen to hear it.


----------



## sage

Um, yeah... What's wrong with pre-workout bananas? I'm just trying to get some carb action in there that doesn't make me wanna puke when I'm lifting less than 1/2 hour later. If there's something I should know, let it out.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

UnderTheSign said:


> Strenght training so I care more about deadlifting more than guns.


 
 That's the spirit.
The main powerlifts will be your quickest route to physique development anyways, especially if you perform the lifts with a bodybuilding mentality.
By limiting the amount of isolations you can hit the main lifts with greater frequency and intensity.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

I should have NEVER googled "mantits"!!!!!!


edit:

In B4; Why would you?


----------



## UnderTheSign

Yeah... Why would you?


----------



## Fiction

A science project


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Trench, wtf man.


----------



## USMarine75

Trench, the technical term is *moobs*.

Let me google that for you

^ click on images, I dare you.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

I had what I can honestly say was the most intense day of leg training of my entire life. This weeks set was a 3x5 and today I was doing hex bar and parallel squat. My three sets on hex bar were 435, 465, and 485 which completely drained me. By the end of that I didn't want to do squats but I figured "Fuck it, YOLO!"  
Put 325 on for first set of five and lawdy that was hard. Then I continued to add weight to 345, which is probably where I should of stopped. On my final set with 365 my legs completely gave out. I have never had that happen.  Finished it off with some hamstring curls and now I can barely walk. 
I need a fucking nap.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

USMarine75 said:


> Trench, the technical term is *moobs*..


 

Thanks, it even has _the definitive guide_.


----------



## Idontpersonally

Do you guys like name brand proteins or is the cheap stuff just as good?


----------



## UnderTheSign

Idontpersonally said:


> Do you guys like name brand proteins or is the cheap stuff just as good?


I use a Dutch shops home brand as it's high quality, decent pricing. Most of the cheap ones are blends of (apparently) lower quality protein sources so you're best off sticking with stuff that has a good reputation.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

If you can swing the $ go for a pure whey isolate.
Look at the ingredients and see what is listed first.
If it's whey concentrate then you can almost count on it being almost entirely that.
The brands sort of hide behind the whole "proprietary blend" thing, in which they can give you literally a pinch of isolate and then claim it's a blend of isolate or they sometimes say it's a whey isolate based blend when it's clearly almost all concentrate.

That's not to say that there's no benefit in these, but it is very deceptive how they label it, and the biological value of the concentrate based blends is much less.

Interestingly enough, whey isolate is almost completely deficient of glutamine, which is why they almost always have glutamine added separately, or include another protein source in the blend.

The main thing is just to research it and learn what the amino acid profile is of whatever your taking so that you can compliment it with another food or powder which is high where the other is low.

Soy isolate (supro) is very high in glutamine (18% by volume), but many people stay away from it because of the bad rap that soy concentrate has for being an estrogen booster. From what I've read in the past, the isoflavanoids (or whatever they're called) that are responsible for the estrogen effects are not a problem with the supro.
I'll readily admit though that I haven't read shit on the subject in the last decade, so newer research might prove otherwise now for all I know.


----------



## Infamous Impact

Idontpersonally said:


> Do you guys like name brand proteins or is the cheap stuff just as good?


Pay up for the good stuff, the cheaper ones will make you want to die.


----------



## Idontpersonally

TRENCHLORD said:


> If you can swing the $ go for a pure whey isolate.
> Look at the ingredients and see what is listed first.
> If it's whey concentrate then you can almost count on it being almost entirely that.
> The brands sort of hide behind the whole "proprietary blend" thing, in which they can give you literally a pinch of isolate and then claim it's a blend of isolate or they sometimes say it's a whey isolate based blend when it's clearly almost all concentrate.
> 
> That's not to say that there's no benefit in these, but it is very deceptive how they label it, and the biological value of the concentrate based blends is much less.
> 
> Interestingly enough, whey isolate is almost completely deficient of glutamine, which is why they almost always have glutamine added separately, or include another protein source in the blend.
> 
> The main thing is just to research it and learn what the amino acid profile is of whatever your taking so that you can compliment it with another food or powder which is high where the other is low.
> 
> Soy isolate (supro) is very high in glutamine (18% by volume), but many people stay away from it because of the bad rap that soy concentrate has for being an estrogen booster. From what I've read in the past, the isoflavanoids (or whatever they're called) that are responsible for the estrogen effects are not a problem with the supro.
> I'll readily admit though that I haven't read shit on the subject in the last decade, so newer research might prove otherwise now for all I know.



Ok heres a one i found by cheap i mean walmart, bf etc.
Sounded like people either loved or hated the cheap stuff on other bb forums.
And yea i have heard about staying away from soy as it boost estrogen









*ingredients*

Whey Protein Isolate, Super Recovery Blend (L-Glutamine, L-Taurine, L-Arginine, L-Alanine, L-Lysine, L-Leucine, Isoleucine, Valine), Natural And Artificial Flavors, Soy Lecithin, Cellulose Gum, Xanthan Gum, Acesulfame Potassium, Sucralose, Carrageenan.




Infamous Impact said:


> Pay up for the good stuff, the cheaper ones will make you want to die.




Thats funny i know the blend ive been using comes with creatine and that too much will make you constipated and sure enough i took too much and wanted to die. I have never tried this isolate though and Im still a noob pretty much on what to look for and what my body needs. Im an ectomorph pretty sure thats where you can eat whatever and not gain weight so i was looking for weight/muscle for my shoulder, back ,thighs.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

^that'll be good stuff I bet. 
The deal should be fair being from Wal-Mart, but gram for gram I'm betting those 8 pound buckets of isopure zero carb are a better deal.
$90 at once can be a bummer though when you have other things going on.
Also keep in mind that mixing about any protein (whey, egg, casein ect.) with skim milk is a winner.


----------



## Idontpersonally

K cool thanks


----------



## Chickenhawk

Yea, listen to Trench. He's a big mofo.

One of these days I'll stop being so damn broke (IE spending all my money on a stupid expensive truck and guns) and drop some money on quality supplements and start actually getting bigger. 

I'm a hell of a lot stronger now than I was 3-4 months ago, but I won't call any of it "improvements" because of the gym. Most of it is me having learned proper technique, and getting back into the swing of actually working out. 

It's damn near time to start lifting seriously. I'm 6'4", strong Eastern European blood, and not jacked as fuck. Something is wrong


----------



## TRENCHLORD

^ Yeah when you're that tall it takes about 15-20 pounds to be real noticeable.
At least there's one thing good about being short lol.


----------



## UnderTheSign

TRENCHLORD said:


> ^ Yeah when you're that tall it takes about 15-20 pounds to be real noticeable.
> At least there's one thing good about being short lol.


Being tall sucks... Until ya get big. Being a colossus sounds fun.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

UnderTheSign said:


> Being tall sucks... Until ya get big. Being a colossus sounds fun.


 
Yeah, I need to start wearing my height-raising shoes again . 


One way to make the deadlift into a somewhat safer repping lift for building is to slightly shorten the range by placing rubber mats under the plates but not your feet. Some gyms have the 100# plates which are taller than the standard 45. One 3/4" horse mat and using the 100 plates on the inside made about the same difference as two mats with the 45s.
Flats or wrestling shoes give another half inch or so.
For heavy singles it feels safer for some reason for me to take the mats out and start a hair lower ,,,, maybe because it compresses the abs more.


----------



## Infamous Impact

TRENCHLORD said:


> Yeah, I need to start wearing my height-raising shoes again .
> 
> 
> One way to make the deadlift into a somewhat safer repping lift for building is to slightly shorten the range by placing rubber mats under the plates but not your feet. Some gyms have the 100# plates which are taller than the standard 45. One 3/4" horse mat and using the 100 plates on the inside made about the same difference as two mats with the 45s.
> Flats or wrestling shoes give another half inch or so.
> For heavy singles it feels safer for some reason for me to take the mats out and start a hair lower ,,,, maybe because it compresses the abs more.


I love the fact that at my height, DLing with 25s and standing on plates still doesn't make it al that much harder


----------



## TRENCHLORD

Infamous Impact said:


> I love the fact that at my height, DLing with 25s and standing on plates still doesn't make it al that much harder


 
I'm sure being a runner you're keeping up with the stretching as well, which really should be done by all of us (I do for a spell then I don't for a spell ). Making them deeper is a good switch to improve on lower back and core strength . Going very deep can end up Romanian for some. Helluva hammy builder.
Some guys like rack pulls from about the knee for more of an back spreader and because it allows them to go heavier for higher reps, but those can turn into a wrist and forearm fryer without straps. I tried them like that but didn't care much for it.


----------



## Infamous Impact

TRENCHLORD said:


> I'm sure being a runner you're keeping up with the stretching as well, which really should be done by all of us (I do for a spell then I don't for a spell ). Making them deeper is a good switch to improve on lower back and core strength . Going very deep can end up Romanian for some. Helluva hammy builder.
> Some guys like rack pulls from about the knee for more of an back spreader and because it allows them to go heavier for higher reps, but those can turn into a wrist and forearm fryer without straps. I tried them like that but didn't care much for it.


I actually don't stretch as often as I should... I keep my flexibility just from the drills I do for warming up. Tight hamstrings are a chronic problem for me . It pays off to do deep deficit deadlifts due to this.
I like doing heavy back extensions and glute ham raises too, my deadlift skyrockets in my off season after doing those two and O lifts during my season.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

I'm right at 6'1 and a half or so and I can definitely say deadlifting is hard  Granted I'd hate to be a few inches taller.


----------



## m3l-mrq3z

Which bodybuilders and/or fitness models do you guys look up to?


----------



## Greatoliver

^Kai Greene. I don't have any aspirations to have a body like his, but his philosophy is something I firmly agree with.


----------



## UnderTheSign

m3l-mrq3z said:


> Which bodybuilders and/or fitness models do you guys look up to?


Arnold, Evan Centopani, Frank Mcgrath... Marshall Johnson, Ben Seath, Stan Efferding, Sam Byrd, Jim Wendler.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

I have a question for you guys. Do you often get bruises on the your collar bone from doing cleans? I get huge red marks and bruises from doing them. Just wondering if it's normal.


----------



## Fiction

I get grazes on my shoulders from calf raises


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Well I get really big bruises on my collar bone and sometimes bleed a little. 
Oh and today was max day for me. 
Clean 250
Squat 435
Bench 305


----------



## Infamous Impact

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> I have a question for you guys. Do you often get bruises on the your collar bone from doing cleans? I get huge red marks and bruises from doing them. Just wondering if it's normal.


Front squats and cleans wreck my collar bones!


----------



## m3l-mrq3z

Hey yo, check out the one and only Terry Crews going hard with a very interesting workout routine:




This is something I have started doing and is truly effective.


----------



## UnderTheSign

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> I have a question for you guys. Do you often get bruises on the your collar bone from doing cleans? I get huge red marks and bruises from doing them. Just wondering if it's normal.


I get red marks that look like abrasions on my traps from squatting and deadlifts sometimes ruin my shins but I've always thought that was pretty normal.


----------



## Chickenhawk

Some motivation for my workout today (which reminds me, I gotta quit slacking and actually GO!)


----------



## TRENCHLORD

^ Sure that ain't a pre-bent bar with cotton-stuffed plastic weights?,,, and someone off to the side clanking pans together.

Can't imagine the look on their faces when bad guys get pulled over and they're getting ready to cock-off when the cop walks up to the window. They bite tongue 99% of the time I bet.


----------



## Chickenhawk

TRENCHLORD said:


> ^ Sure that ain't a pre-bent bar with cotton-stuffed plastic weights?,,, and someone off to the side clanking pans together.
> 
> Can't imagine the look on their faces when bad guys get pulled over and they're getting ready to cock-off when the cop walks up to the window. They bite tongue 99% of the time I bet.



Yea, remind me never to get arrested in Arlington, TX.


----------



## Aevolve

Idontpersonally said:


>



Try and find it in chocolate if you can- that vanilla creme foams up and it's the most vile substance I've ever had to choke down.

I'm purely ON Gold Standard from now on.


----------



## UnderTheSign

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> I'm right at 6'1 and a half or so and I can definitely say deadlifting is hard  Granted I'd hate to be a few inches taller.


Funny, I'm 6'5 and deads are easily my favorite. Just can't drive my ass down as low as some guys do but oh well. I've found that with long arms, benching is a pain (not to mention positioning yourself well on the bench) and it took me ages to get adjusted to breaking parallel on squats. A wide stance helps, I can't squat small stance for shit.


----------



## m3l-mrq3z

I'm going to go for the 209 lbs on the bench next week. Wish me luck, guys!


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

UnderTheSign said:


> Funny, I'm 6'5 and deads are easily my favorite. Just can't drive my ass down as low as some guys do but oh well. I've found that with long arms, benching is a pain (not to mention positioning yourself well on the bench) and it took me ages to get adjusted to breaking parallel on squats. A wide stance helps, I can't squat small stance for shit.


I have a really disproportionate upper body and my legs are super short.  I wear right around 30" pant legs so when I deadlift I'm forced to really bend over.


----------



## ghostred7

Has anyone here had a physical set-back that kind of stopped you in your tracks?

I got into an accident about a month ago (http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/of...exting-driving-personal-accident-content.html). 2 weeks of that time, I was on a strict "breathe-at-your-own-pace profile." Meaning, Dr's orders to not do anything. Third week, he said I can do light cardio and maybe some legs...but basically don't do anything that will work your upper body, not even swimming unless with a kickboard only. I'm now in 4th week and while my legs get good workouts still, my abs & up are feeling neglected, but due to this restriction, I'm slowly finding myself losing motivation. I am going to go do *something* today because at this moment in time, I still miss it. March was an awesome month, but due to this accident....my brain has been slowly shutting down my workout urge and proper eating urge.

Anyone ever experience this type of set-back and if so, how in the hell did you re-motivate yourself?


----------



## DoomJazz

ghostred7 said:


> Has anyone here had a physical set-back that kind of stopped you in your tracks?
> 
> I got into an accident about a month ago (http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/of...exting-driving-personal-accident-content.html). 2 weeks of that time, I was on a strict "breathe-at-your-own-pace profile." Meaning, Dr's orders to not do anything. Third week, he said I can do light cardio and maybe some legs...but basically don't do anything that will work your upper body, not even swimming unless with a kickboard only. I'm now in 4th week and while my legs get good workouts still, my abs & up are feeling neglected, but due to this restriction, I'm slowly finding myself losing motivation. I am going to go do *something* today because at this moment in time, I still miss it. March was an awesome month, but due to this accident....my brain has been slowly shutting down my workout urge and proper eating urge.
> 
> Anyone ever experience this type of set-back and if so, how in the hell did you re-motivate yourself?



I haven't been in the same spot as you have, but I do know that if you haven't lifted in a while, once you're cleared to do so, just go to the gym once and wreck yourself doing your favorite workouts. Immediately sparks the need to return. Sometimes we just get lazy, and need to be reminded of why we love it so much.


----------



## ghostred7

DoomJazz said:


> I haven't been in the same spot as you have, but I do know that if you haven't lifted in a while, once you're cleared to do so, just go to the gym once and wreck yourself doing your favorite workouts. Immediately sparks the need to return. Sometimes we just get lazy, and need to be reminded of why we love it so much.


Thx....that's kind of what I'm hoping happens today to be honest. I want it to re-spark the urge.


----------



## Murmel

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> I have a really disproportionate upper body and my legs are super short.  I wear right around 30" pant legs so when I deadlift I'm forced to really bend over.



30" legs at 6'1? How is this even possible  I'm 6'2 and wear 36" cuffed so they're around 34".


----------



## Chickenhawk

Murmel said:


> 30" legs at 6'1? How is this even possible  I'm 6'2 and wear 36" cuffed so they're around 34".



6'4" here, and wear 35"-36", depending on the brand and cut. Rarely will I find a 36" that's a hair too long.

34"s look like high waters on me 

Ever try to find 34x36 jeans for cheap? God damn impossible.


----------



## Murmel

Well, I want 36" just to roll them up, because that's the look I'm after. I can't roll 34" or the become too short.
Finding W30" L36" was a bit of a hassle as well, most stop at 34".


----------



## UnderTheSign

Chickenhawk said:


> 6'4" here, and wear 35"-36", depending on the brand and cut. Rarely will I find a 36" that's a hair too long.
> 
> 34"s look like high waters on me
> 
> Ever try to find 34x36 jeans for cheap? God damn impossible.


Yeah, 36's are fine on me as well. I wear a 32" waist usually, try finding 32x36... Over here, WE and H&M sometimes have them.


----------



## Murmel

^
Let me recommend these. Swedish based. Make fantastic jeans, in lots of different fits and plenty of sizes.

http://shop.nudiejeans.com/en/


----------



## TRENCHLORD

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> I have a really disproportionate upper body and my legs are super short.  I wear right around 30" pant legs so when I deadlift I'm forced to really bend over.


 
Holy shit, you're like Michael Phelps except you don't wait until after the big race to smoke that bong .


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Never mind not 30", 32". Which is still short in my opinion. 

And I quit hitting the bong back in September, Trench.


----------



## Chickenhawk

Doesn't Roger on American Dad wear something like 42x12? Soooooo close, Angst. 

If I had short legs, I'd be the squat fucking KING. Throw a couple Hondas on the bar, I'd only have to move 6 inches 

Instead I have slenderman legs, and have to travel from low Earth orbit to complete a squat.


----------



## Maniacal

^ Yep. Being tall sucks for squats (I'm 6'5). My skinny lady legs have no chance. I use a toilet roll and 2 onion rings, 5 reps max.


----------



## Triple-J

ghostred7 said:


> Has anyone here had a physical set-back that kind of stopped you in your tracks?
> 
> I got into an accident about a month ago (http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/of...exting-driving-personal-accident-content.html). 2 weeks of that time, I was on a strict "breathe-at-your-own-pace profile." Meaning, Dr's orders to not do anything. Third week, he said I can do light cardio and maybe some legs...but basically don't do anything that will work your upper body, not even swimming unless with a kickboard only. I'm now in 4th week and while my legs get good workouts still, my abs & up are feeling neglected, but due to this restriction, I'm slowly finding myself losing motivation. I am going to go do *something* today because at this moment in time, I still miss it. March was an awesome month, but due to this accident....my brain has been slowly shutting down my workout urge and proper eating urge.
> 
> Anyone ever experience this type of set-back and if so, how in the hell did you re-motivate yourself?



Last December I caught Pleurisy (which is basically Pneumonia's little brother) it destroyed me physically because I couldn't sleep or eat properly 
or get around the house due to my constant shortness of breath plus mentally it had a huge affect on my confidence and really scared me cause being so ill made me feel powerless and was a severe reminder of my own mortality and at it's peak I was convinced I wasn't going to see in the new year at all.

The aftermath of the illness was almost as bad as the illness itself cause I'd lost over a stone in weight and spent the first two months of this year trying to get my sleeping routine back on track whilst struggling with food cause I no longer had an appetite and never ever felt hungry anymore so whenever I ate it felt like I was force feeding myself.
When I returned to the gym I found it very intimidating cause my strength and stamina were non existent and I was basically a newbie trainer again so I spent three weeks doing lightweight/high rep stuff (5x20 squats done as quickly as possible with two 44lb or 33lb plates was a favourite of mine) just getting used to training again and not worrying about how many reps or what weight I was lifting.

When those three weeks were over and I began a regular programme I felt totally psyched up (my appetite had finally returned by then!) and ready to give a big "fuck you" to the idea of ever being ill again by training harder than ever and I began to view the illness as less of a setback and more of an opportunity to reset/rebuild my body and rid myself of previous weaknesses (in my case I had weak shoulders and sucked at dips & pullups) and it's worked so far cause after just two months of solid training I'm actually in much better condition now than I was before I'd gotten ill last year.


----------



## ghostred7

Triple-J said:


> Last December I caught Pleurisy (which is basically Pneumonia's little brother) it destroyed me physically because I couldn't sleep or eat properly
> or get around the house due to my constant shortness of breath plus mentally it had a huge affect on my confidence and really scared me cause being so ill made me feel powerless and was a severe reminder of my own mortality and at it's peak I was convinced I wasn't going to see in the new year at all.
> 
> The aftermath of the illness was almost as bad as the illness itself cause I'd lost over a stone in weight and spent the first two months of this year trying to get my sleeping routine back on track whilst struggling with food cause I no longer had an appetite and never ever felt hungry anymore so whenever I ate it felt like I was force feeding myself.
> When I returned to the gym I found it very intimidating cause my strength and stamina were non existent and I was basically a newbie trainer again so I spent three weeks doing lightweight/high rep stuff (5x20 squats done as quickly as possible with two 44lb or 33lb plates was a favourite of mine) just getting used to training again and not worrying about how many reps or what weight I was lifting.
> 
> When those three weeks were over and I began a regular programme I felt totally psyched up (my appetite had finally returned by then!) and ready to give a big "fuck you" to the idea of ever being ill again by training harder than ever and I began to view the illness as less of a setback and more of an opportunity to reset/rebuild my body and rid myself of previous weaknesses (in my case I had weak shoulders and sucked at dips & pullups) and it's worked so far cause after just two months of solid training I'm actually in much better condition now than I was before I'd gotten ill last year.


Inspiring and will take it to heart. Much better than you're not ill any more...that shit sucks. 

I think I'll try that...just going back to "square 1" even though I wasn't far from there when I stopped. I've just been kind of winging it anyway. I really need to have a routine outlined for me. Once I have every muscle group by exercise memorized, different story. 

I did go back today for the first time...just did light stuff in circuit. Then I came home and raked ivy (we're getting rid of that evil shit by hand). I'm hoping to be sore tomorrow. I felt like I got a good workout, but at my current level....doesn't take much.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

I have about a month until Spring football starts, which only lasts six weeks. I'm looking to pack on some more size and strength in my legs. Would you guys recommend a 20 rep squat program? I'll continue my BFS program but two days a week replace my last set with one of 20.


----------



## m3l-mrq3z

Stop listening to Periphery and your legs will start to grow.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

m3l-mrq3z said:


> Stop listening to Periphery and the gonads will start to grow.


 

^^^ the fix is in .


(not a hater, that was just such an easy plug)


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

m3l-mrq3z said:


> Stop listening to Periphery and your legs will start to grow.


Piss off man.  I listen to Cattle Decapitation and Gojira too.


----------



## m3l-mrq3z

I need a new workout/motivation playlist with plenty of blast beats and intensity. Any suggestions?


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

^Anaal Nathrakh have been populating my workout playlists recently

for albums, check out In The Constellation of the Black Widow and Vanitas.

I've been doing 5/3/1, daily foam rolling and fairly regular hill sprints since I last posted. Feels good man.


----------



## Winspear

m3l-mrq3z said:


> I need a new workout/motivation playlist with plenty of blast beats and intensity. Any suggestions?


----------



## Infamous Impact

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> I have about a month until Spring football starts, which only lasts six weeks. I'm looking to pack on some more size and strength in my legs. Would you guys recommend a 20 rep squat program? I'll continue my BFS program but two days a week replace my last set with one of 20.


Front squats and hills for quads, GHRs and sprinting on a track for hamstrings. Nothing compares. My legs blew up from those.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

I actually do quite a lot of front squats and sprints. I think I'm gonna chance my reps up from usual and go to complete failure more often.


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

I feel the need to qualify my earlier statement with links.

Anybody that likes intense lifting music, give this stuff a spin


----------



## Infamous Impact

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> I actually do quite a lot of front squats and sprints. I think I'm gonna chance my reps up from usual and go to complete failure more often.


I do 5x10 a lot like 5/3/1 BBB and do down sets going from 70%-50%


----------



## sage

Getting back into lifting after a long break. I'm totally fat, but still pretty strong. Started with that stronglifts 5x5 program a few weeks ago. Starting to get up there into the "what I used to do 3 sets of 10 reps a few years ago" zone and starting to feel really thrashed. But eating pretty clean, getting lots of sleep, and doing some light endurance based cardio on the other three days a week and my waistline is starting to move in a negative direction. I'd look into doing some more HIIT type stuff for cardio, but my long range goal is to do a half-Ironman, so starting back on the endurance training now is probably a pretty good idea. 

So, today's workout:
5x5 squats at 220
5x5 bench at 190
5x5 bent over rows at 130

Adding 5 lbs per workout to the squats works out to 15 lbs a week. 2 big plates every 6 weeks. I'll be squatting 315 again by June 15, except this time I'll be going all the way parallel, which I don't think I was doing before. And I was only doing 3 sets of 5-6 reps at that weight.


----------



## Aevolve

Just a quick question for some of you guys here-
Pretty much everything with me is progressing really fast except for my chest, which seems to be lagging behind.

Anyone have any particular tips for building mass in your chest?

Current routine on chest day (1/week)

Flat barbell bench: 5x5
Incline db flyes: 4x10
Incline db press: 4x10
Decline db press: 4x10
Bench machine: 4x10
Dips: 4xfailure


----------



## sage

^OMG, I would be dead. I don't even need to know what weight you're lifting. I would be dead. 

It's my understanding that, for growth, you hit the muscles hard with a lot of weight over a few reps. It sounds to me like you've got entirely too many reps going on. But I'm a big, fat caveman, so, take that however you want to.


----------



## Aevolve

About 175-185lbs for 5 reps each set.

So less volume?

Also for mass I'm assuming I might need to drop my bench into the hypertrophy range (8-10) reps?


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Not really weightlifting related, but I ran a 4.7 forty today. Not too bad for weighing 210.  
Not great either.


----------



## m3l-mrq3z

You have a nice routine. Pay attention to your nutrition.


----------



## Aevolve

Definitely eating enough, getting about 1.5g protein / lb body mass daily. It's strange that it's only my chest lagging, everything else is gaining steadily.


----------



## UnderTheSign

sage said:


> ^OMG, I would be dead. I don't even need to know what weight you're lifting. I would be dead.
> 
> It's my understanding that, for growth, you hit the muscles hard with a lot of weight over a few reps. It sounds to me like you've got entirely too many reps going on. But I'm a big, fat caveman, so, take that however you want to.


1-6 reps for strenght 5-12 reps for growth is the general idea. Or something in that range. 
Chest routine looks alright, have you tried simplifying it? ie. dropping the bench machine and moving dips to whatever day you do triceps on?


----------



## m3l-mrq3z

I was able to bench 95 kg (roughly 210 lbs) today!!! 

I was one rep, but that's my max rep for now  90 kg is in the safe range and 85 is even better (6 reps on a good day).


----------



## Aevolve

UnderTheSign said:


> 1-6 reps for strenght 5-12 reps for growth is the general idea. Or something in that range.
> Chest routine looks alright, have you tried simplifying it? ie. dropping the bench machine and moving dips to whatever day you do triceps on?



Usually I'm pretty weak by the time I hit bench machine so it's kind-of a burnout.

I do dips til failure on both my chest and arms days. Currently on a 5-day split (chest, back, shoulders, arms, legs)


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

m3l-mrq3z said:


> I was able to bench 95 kg (roughly 210 lbs) today!!!
> 
> I was one rep, but that's my max rep for now  90 kg is in the safe range and 85 is even better (6 reps on a good day).


Progress is great my man.


----------



## sage

Aevolve said:


> Usually I'm pretty weak by the time I hit bench machine so it's kind-of a burnout.
> 
> I do dips til failure on both my chest and arms days. Currently on a 5-day split (chest, back, shoulders, arms, legs)



That's way more advanced than I'm ever planning on going with this. Good on ya. I would say to maybe drop a lift or two from your chest regime and up your bench weight on the 5x5 a little bit every week. If I was waking up in the morning looking at that set of chest exercises, I might lift just a little less on the bench to make sure I had enough in the tank to complete the last exercises. If you don't have as much of a tail-end workload planned, you might consider putting up a bit more on your first lift. 

I had something really interesting happen yesterday. Went to the gym. Did my planned 25 minutes at over 140RPM on the elliptical trainer. Then went and grabbed one of those ab ball thingies to do some weak bastard situps. I hate situps and it shows (in the gut-ular region). Did 25. Rested. Did one and my abs (there's apparently a set of them under there somewhere) felt like they folded under themselves. Was in an excruciating amount of pain for about 15 minutes while attempting to stretch it. Swam for a bit and then hit the hot tub. It was still kind of bugging me all day, like if I moved the wrong way it was going to cramp up again. Anyone else ever experience anything that horrifying? Ugh. Going to have to try again on Sunday.

Well, it seemed better today, so:
5x5 squats at 225 (yay! Squatting my ideal body weight. Too bad it's 125 lbs down the scale from where I'm at. But it's all about the process, right?)
5x5 overhead press at 115 (yay! I can put Mrs. Sage over my head! Woman!)
1x5 deadlift at 245 
Followed by a cool down on the bike for 5 minutes, a nice slow swim, and more hot tub.


----------



## Greatoliver

I'm looking to start including some circuit training to improve my cardio, as well as get a bit of endurance training. I'm currently doing strength training of push/pull/legs/shoulders+abs and so I'd fit in circuit training somewhere.

Does anyone have any good full-body circuits or any exercises you think are essential for circuits? (e.g. burpees ) Cheers!


----------



## UnderTheSign

Aevolve said:


> Usually I'm pretty weak by the time I hit bench machine so it's kind-of a burnout.
> 
> I do dips til failure on both my chest and arms days. Currently on a 5-day split (chest, back, shoulders, arms, legs)


Exactly, you're already pretty pumped and worn out by the time you even get to the bench machine. Plus, why do bench machine when you're already doing flat BB bench which is the same movement?

Sage, I hate sit ups as well... Never had the ab cramp though. Have you tried hanging (or lying if you can't handle hanging) leg raises? Apparently sit ups are hell on your back anyway and you're better off doing leg raises anyway.


----------



## Aevolve

UnderTheSign said:


> Exactly, you're already pretty pumped and worn out by the time you even get to the bench machine. Plus, why do bench machine when you're already doing flat BB bench which is the same movement?



Just usually focus on the lower ROM where I'm not locking out with my triceps, trying to get as much into my chest as I can.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Terrible sunburn+ Squats and clean= FUCK THAT SHIT.


----------



## sage

UnderTheSign said:


> Sage, I hate sit ups as well... Never had the ab cramp though. Have you tried hanging (or lying if you can't handle hanging) leg raises? Apparently sit ups are hell on your back anyway and you're better off doing leg raises anyway.



I haven't tried the hanging leg raise, but I'll give it a shot. I've done the lying down ones. Sit ups on the Swiss ball don't bug my back at all and I can definitely notice that they are working the muscle. Then again, I really am starting to notice my core getting engaged in the heavier squats, especially now that I'm getting as low as I'm supposed to be getting. Amazing what proper form does.

Angst: Owwww... It's been a gorgeous six days up here in Vancouver, also. I have seen some really pink dudes running around. It's almost like everyone forgets that the sun will mess you up when you live under a cloud for 7 months straight. Noxzema helps sunburns a lot. Eucalyptus to take away the sting and excellent moisturizers.


----------



## m3l-mrq3z

Did 5 reps with 210 pounds today! Assisted (spotter helped me a bit), but still


----------



## soliloquy

last year, i injured my right shoulder by giving myself shoulder tendonitis while improperly lifting during side lateral raises.

last monday (last week), i injured my left shoulder around the same spot during bench press. i HATE doing barbell, so i stick with dumbells. anyone have any recommendations to fix form using dumbells? most videos i see on line are talking about barbell bench press. i feel i dont have as much control over my muscles with a barbell, so i try not to use them for chest.


but for what its worth, my chest is becoming fairly strong and its catching up to going from the weakest muscle on my body, to one of the stronger muscles. so i'm happy for that.


EDIT: come to think of it...it might just be doing dips. i've always been using the same form in benchpress, but last monday was the first time i did dips briefly....so it could have been that...






on an unrelated note, since i HATE cardio that isn't HIIT, and hate it more if its prolonged, i'm incorporating that into my workouts. as soon as i finish a set of weights, i do a minute of high intensity cardio like box-jumping/bench step ups or burpees, or something that forces me to move large muscles fast. then give it a rest for a minute or two, and go back to lifting again. 

i used to think i'm one of the rare few folks that bust my ass in the gym and hardly ever sweat...this new regimen has me sweating buckets. and by the time i'm done my entire workout, i've done about 20ish plus minutes of cardio without realizing it.


----------



## sage

Yesterday:
5x5 at 235 squats
5x5 at 195 bench
5x5 at 145 upright rows
200 yard swim

Today is cardio day. Gorgeous day out, probably run.


----------



## Majkel

Aevolve said:


> Usually I'm pretty weak by the time I hit bench machine so it's kind-of a burnout.
> 
> I do dips til failure on both my chest and arms days. Currently on a 5-day split (chest, back, shoulders, arms, legs)



How long do you feel it's been that your chest has been falling behind, and how long have you been doing that exact routine? Apart from the decline bench (which really doesn't give you anything much added compared to the flat bench) I think your routine looks fine. Probably just a plateau or a need to change up the routine.

If I were you I'd switch up the order, and also give it a month of different set types to see if that gets your chest out of it's rut. Try doing some drop sets, pyramid sets, progressive overloads etc... 

The flat bench is the main mass builder, so it's not like you're doing the wrong exercises (unless your form is totally crap and you're putting all the weight on your shoulders).

You're doing 5x5 on the flat bench - change that to 8-10 (with 50-70s rest) for a month or two. Then go down to 3-4 (with as long a rest as you need) for a powerlifting routine for a month. See what jogs your growth


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

I've always thought that doing bench at a slight incline was much better for hitting the chest muscles than flat bench. I like to do incline barbell bench and incline fly's once a week. Usually fry my chest.


----------



## Chickenhawk

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> I've always thought that doing bench at a slight incline was much better for hitting the chest muscles than flat bench. I like to do incline barbell bench and incline fly's once a week. Usually fry my chest.



I fucking hate flat dumbbell press, almost as much as I hate decline (worst fucking exercise in existence, in my mind, crossfit "pullups" are a close second). Much, MUCH rather do incline press. I usually throw in some machine fly, or flat dumbbell fly. My lower chest is lacking a bit, but I'm gonna add dips to my chest/tricep day, hopefully that'll help even things out. Dips always were pretty effective for me.

Really wish I could settle on a routine. I had planned on switching to a push-pull-legs/abs thing, but my current gym has zero equipment for squats, deadlifts or actual benchpress, so instead of finding ways to compromise, I've stayed with chest/tri, bicep/back, legs/abs, shoulders/finishing routine. Don't like it all that much. I'd rather push/pull, but that'll have to wait till we switch gyms, and I can start doing the movements that interest me.


----------



## Majkel

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> I've always thought that doing bench at a slight incline was much better for hitting the chest muscles than flat bench. I like to do incline barbell bench and incline fly's once a week. Usually fry my chest.



The chest has two heads. The flat bench will work the lower (Sternal) head, which includes whatever help a decline press would give, so the flat bench works the entire lower head.

The incline bench works the upper (Clavicular) head.


----------



## callankirk

soliloquy said:


> anyone have any recommendations to fix form using dumbells? most videos i see on line are talking about barbell bench press. i feel i dont have as much control over my muscles with a barbell, so i try not to use them for chest.



Handle of the dumbbell at the level of your nipples, shoulder-to-elbow upper arm angle should be at a 45-ish degree angle to your spine (tuck your elbows in). Otherwise there is WAY too much weight going on your anterior 2 rotator cuffs and your anterior deltoid head, and you really risk injury (which, as you found out, can happen pretty easily!). When you don't tuck your elbows in, your shoulder girdle is essentially acting to stabilize however much weight you're lifting - that's not the idea! The shoulder isn't meant to stabilize whatever your pecs are putting up, it's meant to abduct your arm. Dropping your elbows in and lowering the bar (relative to your neck/abdomen) takes that "stabilizing" role of your shoulder out of the picture. 

Good luck!


----------



## Majkel

callankirk said:


> Handle of the dumbbell at the level of your nipples, shoulder-to-elbow upper arm angle should be at a 45-ish degree angle to your spine (tuck your elbows in). Otherwise there is WAY too much weight going on your anterior 2 rotator cuffs and your anterior deltoid head, and you really risk injury (which, as you found out, can happen pretty easily!). When you don't tuck your elbows in, your shoulder girdle is essentially acting to stabilize however much weight you're lifting - that's not the idea! The shoulder isn't meant to stabilize whatever your pecs are putting up, it's meant to abduct your arm. Dropping your elbows in and lowering the bar (relative to your neck/abdomen) takes that "stabilizing" role of your shoulder out of the picture.
> 
> Good luck!



Perfect form!


----------



## Aevolve

Majkel said:


> How long do you feel it's been that your chest has been falling behind, and how long have you been doing that exact routine? Apart from the decline bench (which really doesn't give you anything much added compared to the flat bench) I think your routine looks fine. Probably just a plateau or a need to change up the routine.
> 
> If I were you I'd switch up the order, and also give it a month of different set types to see if that gets your chest out of it's rut. Try doing some drop sets, pyramid sets, progressive overloads etc...
> 
> The flat bench is the main mass builder, so it's not like you're doing the wrong exercises (unless your form is totally crap and you're putting all the weight on your shoulders).
> 
> You're doing 5x5 on the flat bench - change that to 8-10 (with 50-70s rest) for a month or two. Then go down to 3-4 (with as long a rest as you need) for a powerlifting routine for a month. See what jogs your growth



My chest has always been smaller than the rest of me. My back and arms definitely far surpass it. I've been doing this split (with slight deviations) for around 2.5 months.
I try to be as strict as I can on form. I'll try deloading and changing up rep amounts and see where it takes me. Thanks man.


----------



## soliloquy

callankirk said:


> Handle of the dumbbell at the level of your nipples, shoulder-to-elbow upper arm angle should be at a 45-ish degree angle to your spine (tuck your elbows in). Otherwise there is WAY too much weight going on your anterior 2 rotator cuffs and your anterior deltoid head, and you really risk injury (which, as you found out, can happen pretty easily!). When you don't tuck your elbows in, your shoulder girdle is essentially acting to stabilize however much weight you're lifting - that's not the idea! The shoulder isn't meant to stabilize whatever your pecs are putting up, it's meant to abduct your arm. Dropping your elbows in and lowering the bar (relative to your neck/abdomen) takes that "stabilizing" role of your shoulder out of the picture.
> 
> Good luck!



also, should i pretend the dumbbells are a bar and keep them straight; OR put them at an angle (i keep them at a 45 degree angle)? or it doesn't matter?


----------



## Chickenhawk

soliloquy said:


> also, should i pretend the dumbbells are a bar and keep them straight; OR put them at an angle (i keep them at a 45 degree angle)? or it doesn't matter?



I usually keep them at a 45. If I'm being my own form-nazi I'll keep them straight, but I never thought it really mattered.

Anybody with more experience have the answer?


----------



## Infamous Impact

Chickenhawk said:


> I usually keep them at a 45. If I'm being my own form-nazi I'll keep them straight, but I never thought it really mattered.
> 
> Anybody with more experience have the answer?


Do what feels better. Keeping the DBs straight hurts my shoulders, which is on of the reasons why people use dumbbells.


----------



## Majkel

Chickenhawk said:


> I usually keep them at a 45. If I'm being my own form-nazi I'll keep them straight, but I never thought it really mattered.
> 
> Anybody with more experience have the answer?



If I'm understanding the question correctly you're talking about the angle of your arm in relation to the shoulder in the bottom of the movement? So when you say "straight" you mean that you look like a T?

If so, that puts way too much stress on your shoulders. Not only is this bad for the shoulder itself in terms of rotator cuff injuries etc, but you're also moving a lot of the focus away from the chest which is what you're trying to work out, exactly like callankirk said. Nipples is your aim for the flat bench (very upper chest/throat for the incline) and tucking your elbows in will keep you more stable and give you a bit of extra press.

Callankirk really did explain exemplary benching form to a tee.


----------



## Chickenhawk

Majkel said:


> If I'm understanding the question correctly you're talking about the angle of your arm in relation to the shoulder in the bottom of the movement? So when you say "straight" you mean that you look like a T?
> 
> If so, that puts way too much stress on your shoulders. Not only is this bad for the shoulder itself in terms of rotator cuff injuries etc, but you're also moving a lot of the focus away from the chest which is what you're trying to work out, exactly like callankirk said. Nipples is your aim for the flat bench (very upper chest/throat for the incline) and tucking your elbows in will keep you more stable and give you a bit of extra press.
> 
> Callankirk really did explain exemplary benching form to a tee.



No, not my arms. The dumbbell itself. I keep my elbows tucked, that's not a problem (very similar way I've done pushups ever since I was a kid, and all through 16 years of martial arts and 4 years in the Army).

I usually push the dumbbells up with the thumb side of my hand pointed more towards my face, and not with them in a straight line (simulating a barbell). 

I didn't think I was doing anything blatantly wrong, but it never hurts to ask.


----------



## Majkel

Chickenhawk said:


> No, not my arms. The dumbbell itself. I keep my elbows tucked, that's not a problem (very similar way I've done pushups ever since I was a kid, and all through 16 years of martial arts and 4 years in the Army).
> 
> I usually push the dumbbells up with the thumb side of my hand pointed more towards my face, and not with them in a straight line (simulating a barbell).
> 
> I didn't think I was doing anything blatantly wrong, but it never hurts to ask.



Aah, sorry man, misunderstood you. As long as you're not going completely sideways which would turn into a fly, I've never heard or seen anyone mention that angle... Can't imagine it would be that important?


----------



## Ibanezsam4

i just had cruel realization tonight. For over a year now little brother has been in culinary school learning to be a super amazing chef and all that shit. his food is delicious and he's really into sustainable cuisine and local farming and i support all of that... but it comes at a price. yes i want to eat healthy, and i dont want shit nutrients in my body, and i want to do all this while being able to lift and bulk up. 

Enter cruel realization. I dont know if my bathroom scale needs to be calibrated, but the last time i weighed myself a 2 months back i weighed 161/162lbs. i weighed myself tonight.. it read 147... i am super pissed 

i've been craving beef like a mo-fo for a while. my brother has restructured everything we buy so i barely have snack food in the house, what we do have has to be prepared to some extent (i dont have time to cook because of school and work). so i have probably been losing meals over the past few months, in addition to me standing all day at work. 

basically i am an ectomorph, and both my brothers are mesomorphs.. my little brother has the whole house diet structure to the way he and my brother and my dad process food. i obliterate fats like its nothing, can knock carbs back without a problem and crave beef constantly.... it fucking sucks and it all hit me tonight that his whole grocery planning has set me back almost 14 pounds... i am about ready to drive to wendy's right now im so pissed off. 

none of the food in my house right now makes me feel full, and i realized i haven't had a meal in a while where i didn't feel hungry about an hour later...

sorry for the rant, i just feel so discouraged... i haven't weighed so little since my crohn's disease flared up almost two years back and it took me so long to put that weight back on.... fuck


----------



## TRENCHLORD

I've seen some guys rotating the dumbells from straight at the bottom to parallel at the top (opposite of those "perfect pushup" rotating floor handles).

Straight (barbell style) feels the best to me for all the bench angles now, but I used to use a half-way (45 degree) angle on inclines for some reason.
I think at the time I was getting shoulder soreness from overdoing too many things at once, which with my laziness nowadays is rarely ever a problem anymore.


----------



## Aevolve

Ibanezsam4 said:


> i just had cruel realization tonight. For over a year now little brother has been in culinary school learning to be a super amazing chef and all that shit. his food is delicious and he's really into sustainable cuisine and local farming and i support all of that... but it comes at a price. yes i want to eat healthy, and i dont want shit nutrients in my body, and i want to do all this while being able to lift and bulk up.
> 
> Enter cruel realization. I dont know if my bathroom scale needs to be calibrated, but the last time i weighed myself a 2 months back i weighed 161/162lbs. i weighed myself tonight.. it read 147... i am super pissed
> 
> i've been craving beef like a mo-fo for a while. my brother has restructured everything we buy so i barely have snack food in the house, what we do have has to be prepared to some extent (i dont have time to cook because of school and work). so i have probably been losing meals over the past few months, in addition to me standing all day at work.
> 
> basically i am an ectomorph, and both my brothers are mesomorphs.. my little brother has the whole house diet structure to the way he and my brother and my dad process food. i obliterate fats like its nothing, can knock carbs back without a problem and crave beef constantly.... it fucking sucks and it all hit me tonight that his whole grocery planning has set me back almost 14 pounds... i am about ready to drive to wendy's right now im so pissed off.
> 
> none of the food in my house right now makes me feel full, and i realized i haven't had a meal in a while where i didn't feel hungry about an hour later...
> 
> sorry for the rant, i just feel so discouraged... i haven't weighed so little since my crohn's disease flared up almost two years back and it took me so long to put that weight back on.... fuck



If you do what I do, I supply my own food and only eat what I buy. It's just a matter of getting back on a caloric surplus man. Backslides happen, you'll get back into the rhythm of things once you start making yourself eat more.


----------



## Majkel

Ibanezsam4 said:


> long ass text!



I think you're thinking about the problem in the wrong way. If you're getting healthy food served to you on a platter daily that's a luxury few of us get. It's not like what you should be soing is eating pizza just to maintain weight. What you'd eat when bulking up is essentially the same, only with different macros. 

So just ask your brother to serve you twice the meal size?


----------



## rapterr15

Just want to chime in for those having a hard time putting on weight, as I'm very tall and thus it putting on decent amounts of muscle is tough. 

I'm sure this may have been mentioned somewhere in this thread, but consider doing Mark Rippetoe's Starting Strength program if you have access to a squat rack and drinking a gallon of whole milk a day to supplement your regular diet. The whole program consists of squats, overhead presses, bench press, deadlifts, and power cleans, all exercises utilizing the barbell. 

I know drinking this much milk long term isnt very good for the body because of the excess calcium, but from what I've read its not a too big a deal short term. I'm 6'7 pretty lean and bit over a month ago I weighed about 215ish and I'm now about 228. And trust me, I haven't put on much fat, and I'm definitely happier with how I am looking, plus I still haven't plateaud on any exercise (but its starting to get real tough for me haha). 

A gallon of whole milk is about 2400 calories and its not too hard for me to drink if I'm consistent throughout the day. With my diet, I'm getting around 4500-5000 cals which is hard for me to do if I'm just eating my calories. Somedays you feel you're getting fatter, but for me its just been bloating cause then a couple days later I feel better. Apparently thats normal with all the milk. And your farts will come often and smell terrible.

It sound kinda crazy, but I can say it definitely works for the "hard-gainers" like myself.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

rapterr15 said:


> Just want to chime in for those having a hard time putting on weight, as I'm very tall and thus it putting on decent amounts of muscle is tough.
> 
> I'm sure this may have been mentioned somewhere in this thread, but consider doing Mark Rippetoe's Starting Strength program if you have access to a squat rack and drinking a gallon of whole milk a day to supplement your regular diet. The whole program consists of squats, overhead presses, bench press, deadlifts, and power cleans, all exercises utilizing the barbell.
> 
> I know drinking this much milk long term isnt very good for the body because of the excess calcium, but from what I've read its not a too big a deal short term. I'm 6'7 pretty lean and bit over a month ago I weighed about 215ish and I'm now about 228. And trust me, I haven't put on much fat, and I'm definitely happier with how I am looking, plus I still haven't plateaud on any exercise (but its starting to get real tough for me haha).
> 
> A gallon of whole milk is about 2400 calories and its not too hard for me to drink if I'm consistent throughout the day. With my diet, I'm getting around 4500-5000 cals which is hard for me to do if I'm just eating my calories. Somedays you feel you're getting fatter, but for me its just been bloating cause then a couple days later I feel better. Apparently thats normal with all the milk. And your farts will come often and smell terrible.
> 
> It sound kinda crazy, but I can say it definitely works for the "hard-gainers" like myself.


 
That's mucho saturated fat. You could go to low-fat milk and then just add olive-oil and/or flaxseed or something more healthy .

Sounds like a good plan layout over-all for gains .

I think you can still buy maltadextrin powders raw for fairly cheap just to add some complex carbs and to make it more filling. Nothing wrong about making milk one of the main protein sources, although a gallon a day is a shitload (p.i.) of m i l k.


----------



## Fiction

^ I go the low fat milk, oil and whey shakes. Some oats sometimes to get some complex carbs in there


----------



## Fiction

Fiction said:


> ^ I go the low fat milk, oil and whey shakes. Some oats sometimes to get some complex carbs in there



Can also amount to a some good calories. I think I'd die if my whole diet was milk 

Edit: this was meant to be an edit, not a quote haha. Sorry chaps!


----------



## Aevolve

rapterr15 said:


> Just want to chime in for those having a hard time putting on weight, as I'm very tall and thus it putting on decent amounts of muscle is tough.
> 
> I'm sure this may have been mentioned somewhere in this thread, but consider doing Mark Rippetoe's Starting Strength program if you have access to a squat rack and drinking a gallon of whole milk a day to supplement your regular diet. The whole program consists of squats, overhead presses, bench press, deadlifts, and power cleans, all exercises utilizing the barbell.
> 
> I know drinking this much milk long term isnt very good for the body because of the excess calcium, but from what I've read its not a too big a deal short term. I'm 6'7 pretty lean and bit over a month ago I weighed about 215ish and I'm now about 228. And trust me, I haven't put on much fat, and I'm definitely happier with how I am looking, plus I still haven't plateaud on any exercise (but its starting to get real tough for me haha).
> 
> A gallon of whole milk is about 2400 calories and its not too hard for me to drink if I'm consistent throughout the day. With my diet, I'm getting around 4500-5000 cals which is hard for me to do if I'm just eating my calories. Somedays you feel you're getting fatter, but for me its just been bloating cause then a couple days later I feel better. Apparently thats normal with all the milk. And your farts will come often and smell terrible.
> 
> It sound kinda crazy, but I can say it definitely works for the "hard-gainers" like myself.



I'd just like to clarify something- Starting Strength can be decent for those with solely strength goals in mind, but if you're goal is to build a more aesthetic physique, SS is not the way to go in my opinion.
I think most people would be better off with a good split that includes all compounds and a slow bulk.


----------



## UnderTheSign

Aevolve said:


> I'd just like to clarify something- Starting Strength can be decent for those with solely strength goals in mind, but if you're goal is to build a more aesthetic physique, SS is not the way to go in my opinion.
> I think most people would be better off with a good split that includes all compounds and a slow bulk.


I think SS is a good foundation for anyone wanting to build a physique too, instead of going straight for a split as a lot of beginners tend to overcomplicate stuff.


----------



## Aevolve

UnderTheSign said:


> I think SS is a good foundation for anyone wanting to build a physique too, instead of going straight for a split as a lot of beginners tend to overcomplicate stuff.



Good as a baseline to learn and execute compounds, but that's just what it is.. _starting _strength. I don't think it has a whole lot of effective application later on.


----------



## soliloquy

anyone wanna work on their balance, core, hands, and all other parts of their bodies while on the treadmill?
here you go, enjoy


----------



## Murmel

Did some interval hill training today. Destroyed both my lungs and legs but I feel great now


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

I've perfected the weight gainer protein shake for myself. Approximately 1 3/4 scoop of syntha 6 with 1 tbsp of olive oil. Fill my shaker up with milk and add a teaspoon of creatine. Ahhhhh yeeeeahhh, rancid farts here I come.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> I've perfected the weight gainer protein shake for myself. Approximately 1 3/4 scoop of syntha 6 with 1 tbsp of olive oil. Fill my shaker up with milk and add a teaspoon of creatine. Ahhhhh yeeeeahhh, rancid farts here I come.


 
There goes that 40 time . Back to the fives now. 

Nah, it won't make much difference if you keep up with some sprints this summer, and maybe some plyometric stuff like jumpers do for track/field.
Were you in t/f this spring? And no, pole vaulting the lady don't count.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

No I wasn't in Track and Field, but I've still been doing plyometrics. Spring football starts in two weeks though so I'll hopefully be able to run faster than before with the additional 75lbs of squat strength since last football season. By fall I'm hoping 100+


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

Murmel said:


> Did some interval hill training today. Destroyed both my lungs and legs but I feel great now



I nearly threw up the first time I did them. Friggin epic



AngstRiddenDreams said:


> I've perfected the weight gainer protein shake for myself. Approximately 1 3/4 scoop of syntha 6 with 1 tbsp of olive oil. Fill my shaker up with milk and add a teaspoon of creatine. Ahhhhh yeeeeahhh, rancid farts here I come.



I've always kept it simple, 2.5 scoops of protein, 2 scoops of oats, a half litre of milk. Combined with creatine daily (but separate) makes for maximal farting results for me


----------



## UnderTheSign

Captain Shoggoth said:


> I nearly threw up the first time I did them. Friggin epic
> 
> I've always kept it simple, 2.5 scoops of protein, 2 scoops of oats, a half litre of milk. Combined with creatine daily (but separate) makes for maximal farting results for me


Yeah, protein + ground/blended oats does it for me as well. No rubbish, just what you need.

edit: so a friend of mine just got a new roommate... We knew he was into bodybuilding but then we found this


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Do you guys like stiff legged deadlifts? I've hammered my legs three days in a row, which I know you guys will say I'm stupid but I really wanted to make myself sore and it seems like lifting every other day never allows me to really be sore. Today I did some stiff legged deadlifts and my hamstrings are fried.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> Do you guys like stiff legged deadlifts? I've hammered my legs three days in a row, which I know you guys will say I'm stupid but I really wanted to make myself sore and it seems like lifting every other day never allows me to really be sore. Today I did some stiff legged deadlifts and my hamstrings are fried.


 
I used to throw them in about twice a year lol.
Always preferred to just do more of a Romanian style DL every third or fourth DL session to emphasise hamstrings, glutes, lower back.
Anytime I'm going medium-high reps on DL they end up more Romanian.
On heavy singles I concentrate on getting down under the weight and driving straight up instead of sitting back and stretching the hams.
You can always use the 25 plates or even the 10s unless you feel the need for a platform.


----------



## Dommak89

I know this topic has been discussed before, but I never asked the question myself, and I wanted some opinion from other guys: How bad is alcohol really for your training?

I know it has real negative effects, but I'm asking more of how much it affects your training negatively and what you're experiences are, if you drink.
I have read and heard for example that one night getting hammered can destroy the progress of 3 weeks training. Is that true?

And how do you handle your drinking habit in regard to your training? Did you quit drinking alcohol? Do you drink every weekend or just a few days a year? How much do you drink? A couple of beers, or do you get hammered? And what are the effects you experienced when you went to the gym the day(s) after?

I just want to get some more input.


----------



## m3l-mrq3z

^It decreases testosterone levels, it contains quite a lot of calories, it is unhealthy, it might disturb the process where the body builds muscle, it is useless..


----------



## TRENCHLORD

A couple beers isn't going to matter except when trying to eat clean and cut BF%.
Any more than that and it's going to become a negative factor for training.

One drunkard isn't going to keep you down for more than a couple days, but if you do it once or twice every weekend, then you can destroy any chance of steady progress.


----------



## Chickenhawk

I slowed my drinking down before I started lifting. Went from drinking every night, to every weekend, to once every couple months. 

Having a stupid amount of beer in 6 hours every 60 days isn't going to kill me, or my training. It's always on a Saturday night, and I usually take Sunday off from lifting anyways. Re-hydrate all day, and back at it on Monday. 

Drinking every weekend? Hope you're not trying to cut, or clean bulk.

EDIT:
I know a guy that calls himself a powerlifter (and for all intents and purposes, he is...just doesn't compete), and he drinks heavily every weekend. He has a stupid high bf%, and is in generally poor health...but he's strong as fuck.


----------



## m3l-mrq3z

Most strongmen/powerlifters are fat...


----------



## Dommak89

Chickenhawk said:


> I slowed my drinking down before I started lifting. Went from drinking every night, to every weekend, to once every couple months.
> 
> Having a stupid amount of beer in 6 hours every 60 days isn't going to kill me, or my training. It's always on a Saturday night, and I usually take Sunday off from lifting anyways. Re-hydrate all day, and back at it on Monday.
> 
> Drinking every weekend? Hope you're not trying to cut, or clean bulk.
> 
> EDIT:
> I know a guy that calls himself a powerlifter (and for all intents and purposes, he is...just doesn't compete), and he drinks heavily every weekend. He has a stupid high bf%, and is in generally poor health...but he's strong as fuck.


I do not, by every means, want to become a bodybuilder. I do, however, want to get stronger and, let's face it, look better. It has already worked although I'm drinking (not always heavily) almost every weekend. But I'm cutting that down now. Though it's tough. I mean who goes to a Pub/Bar and orders a water? But I want to see progress faster, so I'm cutting on the alcohol.


----------



## troyguitar

I don't know how people can afford to go out to bars even once a week, that's like $100+ per month wasted on nothing.

I don't think alcohol is any worse for training than soda or other junk food though... a 6-pack a week is probably not as bad as a pizza.


----------



## sage

Alcohol in moderation is not an altogether bad thing. I can't see a situation where a night of drinking is going to negate three weeks of training unless you're talking about the .0001% of dudes who are at the highest level. In those cases, gains are so hard to come by that maybe pounding back 40 oz of vodka is going to really mess stuff up for a while. For the rest of us, a couple of beers here and there aren't going to mess with you too badly. 

All that said, when I was training for triathlons, I cut it out completely and was the better for it. Lost weight quicker, had zero problems waking up at 5:30 to get my training volume in, and didn't have hydration issues. Lifting, for me anyway, is a much easier path. Fewer hours, less exhaustion, easy progress... So I don't deny myself the occasional bender. But that's my body type, also. I respond incredibly well to strength training. Muscle packs on, fat dissolves, and all with way less effort and time than any amount of cycling and running is ever going to do. For guys who have issues with putting on muscle, maybe that hooch is going to be a problem.


----------



## Dommak89

troyguitar said:


> I don't know how people can afford to go out to bars even once a week, that's like $100+ per month wasted on nothing.



I don't know, "wasted on nothing"? I don't want to start any side discussion so I keep it short: Whether I go to the movies, go out to eat, go out having a drink or spend time with my friends at any other location other than at home, always results in me spending "a lot" of money. And I don't drink alcohol worth $100 a night, unless I'm buying a few rounds for everybody.



sage said:


> For guys who have issues with putting on muscle, maybe that hooch is going to be a problem.


Yeah that's my problem, and that's why I want to change something. Also eat more like Rich Piana always preaches.


----------



## sage

Question for the gigging lifters: Bro, on show day, do you even lift? 

This was the dilemma this morning. I'm playing my first show in 7 years tonight. Physically, I'm doing well. I'm hitting the gym regularly again and have been for over a month now, so keeping the routine is critical. It's working, also. Weight is still about the same, but I definitely notice my shorts being looser, my belt is getting buckled on a notch that hasn't been used in a while, and it's pretty obvious that weight is leaving my belly and showing up on my chest, shoulders, arms, and legs. Being on that Strong Lifts 5x5 thing has me lifting more every workout and I'm getting up into weights that I haven't successfully sustained lifting before. At least not properly. Hitting full parallel on the squats is a new thing for me. 

Anyway, I went. I lifted. I hit the hot tub. I ate. I feel good. But I did worry a bit about, like, what happens if today is the day that I put the weight on the bar, squat down, and wipe out? Well, that would suck. 

So, what's your deal? You lift on gig day or what?


----------



## TRENCHLORD

IF (key word there) I was a gigging lifter, I'd say no I would not.
The reason is it takes awhile for my right claw to loosen back up after doing most upper-body stuff, especially pulls of about any kind.
Maybe if the show was in the evening or late and I could get the workout in early and then catch an afternoon nap, then it'd have time to relax.
Fretting hand doesn't really give me trouble, but when my pick hand is not relaxed I cramp up when speed picking or doing fast all downstroke (M.O.P. type stuff).


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Hell yeah, 225x11 on bench today. By the time I'm a senior i'll get 20.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> Hell yeah, 225x11 on bench today. By the time I'm a senior i'll get 20.


 
You should be getting close to a one-count pause at the bottom 315.
Maybe even 325ish if you take a few days off prior,


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

When I do heavy sets I've always gone super slow just so that I don't hurt my shoulder. So it pretty much ends up being a pause at the bottom because I control the negative so much.


----------



## UnderTheSign

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> Hell yeah, 225x11 on bench today. By the time I'm a senior i'll get 20.


Did you keep your ass on the bench this time? 

Also, what's up with your shoulder then? Have you tried these? Band Pull-Apart Super Series for Healthy Shoulders


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Nothing's wrong with it, I just had a bad experience of going down too fast and my shoulder popping as I came up.


----------



## Infamous Impact

In case anyone wants a good core workout:
http://youtu.be/0O4syEJeg2Y
I probably added a good foot to my vault after I started doing what's in the video


----------



## Murmel

I really wish I could find a bar that high, there's lots of stuff I'd love to try out.


----------



## Chickenhawk

Well, something happened to me in the past couple weeks. I went from pushing 60lb dumb bells 5x5 for flat bench, then suddenly one day, I struggled with 40s (actually finished my sets that week with 35s). I do push on Mondays and Thursdays. No injuries, no change in diet or routine (well, no more than usual...gotta keep it interesting). Today I got back up to 55s, and everything felt fine.

No idea what happened, but it was sure as hell strange. And frustrating. Hopefully whatever that was is over with, 'cause I felt good enough to try 60s again.


----------



## UnderTheSign

Chickenhawk said:


> Well, something happened to me in the past couple weeks. I went from pushing 60lb dumb bells 5x5 for flat bench, then suddenly one day, I struggled with 40s (actually finished my sets that week with 35s). I do push on Mondays and Thursdays. No injuries, no change in diet or routine (well, no more than usual...gotta keep it interesting). Today I got back up to 55s, and everything felt fine.
> 
> No idea what happened, but it was sure as hell strange. And frustrating. Hopefully whatever that was is over with, 'cause I felt good enough to try 60s again.


Off/bad days happen once every while man. A week or two ago squatting 20lbs less than I was planning on felt heavy as hell too so I just went with that and went back up the next week.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

UnderTheSign said:


> squatting 20lbs


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Hey guys, so there's a kid in my school who's really wanting to play football but he's a ....ing stick. Like 5'10 125lbs  
Our spring and summer training program don't include hitting (we wait til the actual season's practices) and we lift weights three days a week.
Do you think he'll be able to put on enough size to not be completely flattened?


----------



## Chickenhawk

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> Hey guys, so there's a kid in my school who's really wanting to play football but he's a ....ing stick. Like 5'10 125lbs
> Our spring and summer training program don't include hitting (we wait til the actual season's practices) and we lift weights three days a week.
> Do you think he'll be able to put on enough size to not be completely flattened?



Is he fast?

Like...stupid fast, and nimble? It's possible he might never get hit (not likely).

Or he can be a kicker


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

He's pretty fast, but I'm every bit as fast and 210.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> Hey guys, so there's a kid in my school who's really wanting to play football but he's a ....ing stick. Like 5'10 125lbs
> Our spring and summer training program don't include hitting (we wait til the actual season's practices) and we lift weights three days a week.
> Do you think he'll be able to put on enough size to not be completely flattened?


 
IMO it's more about the instinct to lower your leverage.
This kid hasn't played before so if he's going against guys that have played since middle-school yes, he'll get flattened, probably to the point of quitting within a week or two of full-contact.

We had a couple "school tough guys" try to go out for football for the first time when in high-school and .
Didn't work out so well for them . One quit after the second practice and the other made it a week.
I hope he proves me wrong though. If there are many other players who don't have a few years or more of ball under their belt then he might make it.


----------



## troyguitar

It also depends on how good/serious your school's program is... I wanted to play in high school but only for fun - no interest in playing at the college level or beyond. With that attitude I would never have made the team even if I was 250 lbs  Our school existed almost solely for the football team, everything revolved around them.


----------



## UnderTheSign

TRENCHLORD said:


>


And that's why reading stuff before ya hit send is a good idea 



AngstRiddenDreams said:


> Hey guys, so there's a kid in my school who's really wanting to play football but he's a ....ing stick. Like 5'10 125lbs
> Our spring and summer training program don't include hitting (we wait til the actual season's practices) and we lift weights three days a week.
> Do you think he'll be able to put on enough size to not be completely flattened?


Depends on how fast he wants to gain the weight. Good food, a lot of it, and a proper routine and he might gain pretty fast but it'll still take him ages to get to a (healthy) 180+.


----------



## Seanthesheep

ok, so quick question when it comes to weights. right now Im trying to build myself a workout routine and one of the biggest questions I have is, is it better to focus on one particular muscle group per workout, or do everything every working but swap out excirsizes every time? 

The gym Im going to is right by my work so going 4-5 times a week is no problem


----------



## TRENCHLORD

^ I'd suggest for just starting out to sort of strike a balance between the two approaches. 

Pushing movements (bench, shoulder-press, tricep pushdowns ect.)
off day
Leg/core day (squats, leg-press, abs ect..)
off day
Pulling movements (pullups, rows, curls ect.)

After a couple months you might want to switch it up in a number of different ways, but the push/legs/pull is a good way to start out strong (p.i.).


----------



## Chickenhawk

TRENCHLORD said:


> ^ I'd suggest for just starting out to sort of strike a balance between the two approaches.
> 
> Pushing movements (bench, shoulder-press, tricep pushdowns ect.)
> off day
> Leg/core day (squats, leg-press, abs ect..)
> off day
> Pulling movements (pullups, rows, curls ect.)
> 
> After a couple months you might want to switch it up in a number of different ways, but the push/legs/pull is a good way to start out strong (p.i.).



^ This.

After a while you will notice what movements you benefit from the most, and what movements become redundant in your routine, and you can start changing things out.

I feel it's fairly important to stay on a strict routine for the first month or two. A basic, simple routine, granted, but stick with it 100% for a while. After you start to get the feel of things, you can start adding in variations, and swapping movements out randomly as you feel.

Shit the last 30 minutes of my most recent push day was shoulders (something I usually do on pull days), simply because I wanted to, and I once read that The Rock does 'instinctive' training, and I wanted to be like him


----------



## m3l-mrq3z

I managed to deadlift 110 kg today, guys! It was kind of scary, as I felt I was going to faint while at it  :O


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

first time I did I felt like my head was going to explode  Reps?


----------



## m3l-mrq3z

Captain Shoggoth said:


> first time I did I felt like my head was going to explode  Reps?



1 rep :/

I can do 5 reps with 100 kg, though 

Gym n00b checking in...


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

time difference between me DL'ing 110kg for one rep and doing it for five was about 6 weeks, half of that time not even really training consistently

keep at it man, prime gains time


----------



## Chickenhawk

*sigh*

....ed my shoulder up again. No clue what happened this time, but I can't stabilize anything over 35lbs for dumbbell press. I tore my rotator cuff in 2005 (sometime during Basic or AIT), and have problems with it about once every 12-18 months. Guess it's that time again 

It's kind of like my man-period.


----------



## Murmel

m3l-mrq3z said:


> 1 rep :/
> 
> I can do 5 reps with 100 kg, though
> 
> Gym n00b checking in...



Don't fret, by 80kg you've deadlifted more than 99% of people ever will in their life anyway.


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

that's a really odd feeling  crazy


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Holy ass munch guys, I rarely do rows and yesterday I did 5 sets of 5 with 155 and my back is so fried.  
Also, if I were to record a video of me doing heavy clean pulls, could you critique it?


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Man do I feel weak, my 17 yr old friend who weighs 195 just won a weightlifting comp with a power clean of 315x2...


----------



## UnderTheSign

19 years old, pulls 775lbs raw.


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

He's ....ing lean as well!

Jesus Christ I'm lagging.


----------



## Aevolve

UnderTheSign said:


> 19 years old, pulls 775lbs raw.



Well shit, he's my age and I only pull 365. 
Insanely impressive.


Unfortunately I won't be able to lift again for a couple weeks- was in the hospital for a few days this week with a collapsed lung. It was a spontaneous pneumothorax, and it was a small one so it's healing on its own without surgery- so that's good news.


----------



## sage

Mostly looking for some sort of advice from Trench, but anyone else with some sorta wisdom would be appreciated also:

I overdid it yesterday. Switched workout up to be a little more similar to my previous workout architecture and nearly barfed. I've been making good progress at adding weight and getting way better form on my squats and deadlifts, but obviously I need more rest between reps than I was giving myself yesterday. I used to do 5-6 exercises in a day, all 3 sets of 8-10, and all as supersets. So I was planning on going back to that for just 2 days a week so I could focus on cardio the other 3 days. 3 sets of 8 squats at 275lbs supered with 3 sets of 8 bench press at 205 lbs and I was pretty much done. Managed to get in 2 sets of overhead press at 135lbs supered with 1 set of rows at 205lbs in after that, but I needed like 4 minutes between sets to even be able to look at the weight, let alone bend over to pick up the bar... I'm gonna try it again on Thursday but without the supersets, just rest 90-120 seconds between sets and do one thing at a time. I'd just like to get out of doing 5x5 of three lifts. It just seems like an awful lot of time to spend in a gym not putting up a lot of reps, no matter how elegant the app for tracking the lifts is.

So, all that out there, here is my goal:

3 sets of 10 squats at 315
3 sets of 10 bench at 225
3 sets of 10 overhead press at 135
3 sets of 10 bent over rows at 225
3 sets of 10 deadlifts at 315

It should be noted that I am a big, strong dude. 6'4", 340 lbs. Lightest I've ever been was 8lbs 13oz (I'm just messing with you). Lightest I've ever been since I was 20 was 208, but that was after a season of treeplanting and a wicked case of giardia. Lightest in-shape weight was probably 230. Definite endomorph. I look at food and put on weight. I lift even a little bit here and there and put on muscle. 

So what's my best way of getting there? Should I back off on all the weights to get my 10 reps in and then increase weights little by little from there? Or am I better off doing this 5x5 stuff until I'm way past my 10 rep goal weights (like, say by 40-50 lbs) and then back off from there?


----------



## Maniacal

340? holy shit! You are a giant! What is your body fat %?

I'm 6'5 and 227.

I would focus on MAX OT style training to build your strength for 6 months + and then up the reps and cut. 

I did MAX OT for a year and my lifts went up a lot, right now I am just trying to lose a few more pounds body fat.


----------



## sage

Body fat is really high, which is why the three days of cardio and two days of weight lifting are kind of key for me. I looked into the MAX OT system and I'm as interested in spending 5 days lifting, with each day centred on a different body part, as I am in masturbating with a cheese grater. I've done that sort of thing before and it totally works, but it works almost too well. I end up with all kinds of crazy muscle that's completely inflexible and makes even the slightest bit of cardio seem almost impossible. It's tough to keep sending oxygen to that much muscle and I end up looking like one of those fat-muscle biker dudes. As I'm approaching 40, I'm more interested in being fit than I am in being huge.


----------



## UnderTheSign

IMO, going from personal experience and that of others, one of the best ways to train for both strenght & some size is Jim Wendler's 5/3/1 with the BBB template. 4 days a week, takes an hour a day at most - so not an awful lot of time either. And while you only up the weights once every month, the gains are steady. 

Add some good cardio and eat clean and you might shed some flab, too.


----------



## Rook

Where do you guys stand on cutting fat and not affecting your muscle building or strength gains?

I started intermittent fasting about 5/6 weeks ago but it's been less strict the last few weeks while I've had a lot of work to do, I've over eaten a few times in the last week but from my 5kg loss over those 4 weeks I've only put 0.6kg back on so I'm not too worried. From what I know however, and this is my first attempt to lose anything, that losses like that for a guy my weight (90kg) aren't too surprising when you first start. I look subtly different on my shoulders arms and legs but I'm still carrying a load of junk of my chest and stomach. 

Anyway now that I'm free I'm gunna start going harder on it, it certainly hasn't affected my gains in the gym, I'll come back to that. I don't see any reason I shouldn't be able to build strength and lose fat at the same time. Do you? If I start doing cardio 2 days a week surely that won't affect my strength gains?

My week looks like this:
1)
Flat Bench
Incline Bench
Shoulder Press
Dips and/or pulldowns
Chin ups

2)
Rest (cardio?)

3)
Deadlift
Speed deadlift (lighter)
[Bent over Rows
Good Morning
Straight Leg Deadlift] Circuit x 3
Upright rows or power shrugs
Chin Ups

4)
Rest (cardio?)

5)
Squat
Hack Squat
Leg Press
Chin ups (lol)

6&7) Rest

I often do dips and/or delt flies most days do, those and the chin ups have done so much more my general back strength, particularly in my bench, which has gone from 70k to 100k since March/April time.

I'm 6ft 2 (1.86m) and 90kg, my big 3 are
Bench - 100k
Squat - 120k
Deadlift - 140k

I wouldn't really be looking to change much tbh progress has been outstanding, but if I can drop some of this flab - if what I think is going to drop some fat s going to work - that'd be amazing. The less it impacts strength the better but I'm happy to trade off.

Cheers


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

My football coach is crazy, he believes that super high reps are the best way to get strong.  
He had us do 100lbs on bench for max reps. 59 reps later my arms were dead. 

Edit: Side note, I'll record myself doing clean pulls tomorrow with something like 285 and 305, I almost think I can pull it high enough to clean but I'm a big ol' pussy.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

sage said:


> Body fat is really high, which is why the three days of cardio and two days of weight lifting are kind of key for me. I looked into the MAX OT system and I'm as interested in spending 5 days lifting, with each day centred on a different body part, as I am in masturbating with a cheese grater. I've done that sort of thing before and it totally works, but it works almost too well. I end up with all kinds of crazy muscle that's completely inflexible and makes even the slightest bit of cardio seem almost impossible. It's tough to keep sending oxygen to that much muscle and I end up looking like one of those fat-muscle biker dudes. As I'm approaching 40, I'm more interested in being fit than I am in being huge.


 
You must be totally wiped out the following day after all those sets of compounds. I know 4sure I'd be aching for days .

Maybe an idea would be to continue your weights twice, and cardio three times/wk, and to stick with the more full-body approach, but divide the main excersises in half for each session.

example;

Monday--- squats, bench, rows, tricep-pushdowns
cardio
off
Thursday---deadlifts, military, pulldowns, dumbbell-curls
cardio
cardio
off

You could still combine pairs for the supersets (like bench and rows, or military-press and pulldowns), but I wouldn't always do them like that.

As for reps, it's not a bad idea to rotate ranges on either a weekly or a monthly basis.
Being almost 40 (can relate ) and having long-lasting health as the main goal, I'm not sure if anything under the 5-6 rep range would ever be needed anyways.
Just to switch it up now and then (maybe one week every month) you might try doing only two sets per exercise and repping as many as safely possible on both. Leg-press should probably replace squats on those weeks to be safer. 
Drop-sets are great to use instead of super-sets sometimes for a change.

Most of the time I don't even count reps, I just get warmed up and ladder up to a decent workout weight (5-20rep range), then hit the first real set for as many as possible, rest 2-3min, then do it again with a drop-set right behind.
It's just the way that seems to generate more soreness the next day.
Occasionally I do the 5x5 or 3x10 when not in a go-to-failure mood .


edit; For guys that are training one or two parts/day and lifting 4-5 days/wk.,, going to failure all the time or doing drop-sets on everything will probably be way overdoing it.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Holy shit I pulled something BAD on my back. This is no beuno guys, can barely breathe without it hurting.


----------



## Infamous Impact

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> Holy shit I pulled something BAD on my back. This is no beuno guys, can barely breathe without it hurting.


Get it checked it ASAP, it might be a hernia. And that would upset us all bro.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

It's definitely a pulled muscle. The right side about midway down my back. No spinal discomfort at all, and I could feel it in the muscle as I was coming up on a rep of squats. I slept weird and the muscle was sore already, hurt like hell. I've been icing it in on and off, stretching, rubbing it etc...


----------



## Infamous Impact

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> It's definitely a pulled muscle. The right side about midway down my back. No spinal discomfort at all, and I could feel it in the muscle as I was coming up on a rep of squats. I slept weird and the muscle was sore already, hurt like hell. I've been icing it in on and off, stretching, rubbing it etc...


Mash the area with a lacrosse ball, or tennis/golf ball if you don't have that.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> It's definitely a pulled muscle. The right side about midway down my back. No spinal discomfort at all, and I could feel it in the muscle as I was coming up on a rep of squats. I slept weird and the muscle was sore already, hurt like hell. I've been icing it in on and off, stretching, rubbing it etc...


 
Welcome to the world of back and neck twinge .
Will become a more frequent thing as time goes on.
Sleeping is rough on old people.

Like I.I. said, find a way to massage the pained area, get on the floor and do some gentle sideways rolling or roll across one of those massaging things.
I still do it anyways, but sleeping on a couch or something that's motion restrictive (especially after a hard running/lifting workout) tends to encourage it.
Even if it's in the upper or middle back on one side or the other, make a point to do gentle neck and arm circles everyday before and after working out to help loosen the muscles out.

Got Flexeril.


----------



## Infamous Impact

TRENCHLORD said:


> Welcome to the world of back and neck twinge .
> Will become a more frequent thing as time goes on.
> Sleeping is rough on old people.
> 
> Like I.I. said, find a way to massage the pained area, get on the floor and do some gentle sideways rolling or roll across one of those massaging things.
> I still do it anyways, but sleeping on a couch or something that's motion restrictive (especially after a hard running/lifting workout) tends to encourage it.
> Even if it's in the upper or middle back on one side or the other, make a point to do gentle neck and arm circles everyday before and after working out to help loosen the muscles out.
> 
> Got Flexeril.


Meet your new best friend.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

I love you guys, my well informed weight lifting buddies


----------



## UnderTheSign

Infamous Impact said:


> Meet your new best friend.


My best friend.


----------



## sage

TRENCHLORD said:


> A bunch of awesome advice



Thanks for that. That makes a whole lot of sense.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

UnderTheSign said:


> My best friend.


 
Those look very much like .  Might make a good Christmas gift for that special ex-girlfriend lol. Could always glue a golf ball on one end. No, make it a softball!!~


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

^^


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

What even are those?

I'm tempted to say rollers but my foam roller looks nothing like that...


----------



## Infamous Impact

Captain Shoggoth said:


> What even are those?
> 
> I'm tempted to say rollers but my foam roller looks nothing like that...


Foam rollers with raised surfaces which help dig into the deeper more knotted muscles.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

I used a tennis ball today, worked wonders. But football practice killed me again.


----------



## UnderTheSign

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> I used a tennis ball today, worked wonders. But football practice killed me again.


I used to use a tennis ball as well but found it easier to roll on the rumble roller as it covers a larger surface and it's easier to stabilise yourself on it.


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

Infamous Impact said:


> Foam rollers with raised surfaces which help dig into the deeper more knotted muscles.



ah nice, cheers


----------



## soliloquy




----------



## axxessdenied

They call me mohammad jordan


----------



## Idontpersonally

My right bicep is a little bigger than the left, is this normal, should i regulate my protein better or just keep doing more reps with the left??


----------



## UnderTheSign

Idontpersonally said:


> My right bicep is a little bigger than the left, is this normal, should i regulate my protein better or just keep doing more reps with the left??


Ask yourself this - how would a change of protein intake change the balance of your muscles?

It's not uncommon for muscles to be uneven, my right trap is larger and so is my left calf. I tried to find a way to change it but most guys said it might be either posture (in the case of traps especially), muscle dominance - you're right handed so the right trap, bicep, etc gets used more or simply genetics. The body isn't perfectly symmetrical so things like this will happen.


----------



## Idontpersonally

UnderTheSign said:


> Ask yourself this - how would a change of protein intake change the balance of your muscles?
> 
> It's not uncommon for muscles to be uneven, my right trap is larger and so is my left calf. I tried to find a way to change it but most guys said it might be either posture (in the case of traps especially), muscle dominance - you're right handed so the right trap, bicep, etc gets used more or simply genetics. The body isn't perfectly symmetrical so things like this will happen.


 Cool, i just asked here bc im new to body building and ive only noticed it since i started.


----------



## Greatoliver

Idontpersonally said:


> Cool, i just asked here bc im new to body building and ive only noticed it since i started.



You can do some exercises where the weaker arm has to pull as much weight. For example, using a barbell means that the dominant arm can potentially put more effort in. Using dumbells means that both arms have to push the same amount of weight.


----------



## Aevolve

Greatoliver said:


> You can do some exercises where the weaker arm has to pull as much weight. For example, using a barbell means that the dominant arm can potentially put more effort in. Using dumbells means that both arms have to push the same amount of weight.



Precisely this. Use dumbbells to ensure that each side is doing an equal amount of work per exercise. This is the only real way to combat muscle imbalance.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

I'd stress some one-arm concentration curls (of course work both arms though).
Sit on the end of a bench and lean forward with the working arm's elbow against your inner-thigh. Be careful and stress good form.
Once you have them down well go for a couple dropsets per/arm.


----------



## UnderTheSign

^could do all that but seeing as you're new I'm pretty sure it'll even out over time anyway.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

UnderTheSign said:


> ^could do all that but seeing as you're new I'm pretty sure it'll even out over time anyway.


 
It should yes.

We have all seen those guys in the gym though, the ones that go crazy un-even on curls and everything.  Can't they see the mirror that's right in front of them.


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

B-b-but curls get the girls, Trench!


disclaimer: I don't do curls


----------



## Seanthesheep

Ok quick question guys and I dont think its worth making a thread over but im curious regardless. Machines or free weights when you lift? I go to a big gym so I have the choice between both but I usually stick to machines. Is there benefits to one vs the other or is it mainly preference?


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

free weights every day of the week/month/year/life, especially compound movements, infinitely greater for overall strength, IMO free weights and some bodyweight exercises (chins, pullups, pushups, dips) are all that you'll ever need for strength training


----------



## Uncreative123

Free weights leave you more prone to injury and lead to muscle imbalances, but you typically have a greater range of motion. Machines allow you to more directly focus on/target specific muscle areas/movements that you otherwise wouldn't be able to do. That's why they were created.


There's no "either or"- it's both. Use both machines and free weights.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

Machines I really miss (being a home only free-weight only lifter now);
leg-extensions
leg-curls
leg-press
cables (mostly for triceps moves and pulldown drop-sets)

Machines I don't like much;
smith (except for over-head press, calves, and inclines) but I can do without smith
hammer-strength (never liked pushing OR pulling on a curving path)(curls are O.K. at best on them)
chest and rear-delt fly machines (not bad, but cables for chest and dumbells for delts much better IMO)

Between free-weights and one good cable station (or maybe even a heavier grade bowflex) I'd be a happy lifter.


----------



## UnderTheSign

Hammer strenght incline bench and shoulder press are great machines. There are a variety of rowing and pulling ones as well and while I don't like them all, they do allow to really focus on contraction.


----------



## sage

Hit the gym hard today. Deadlifted 365 lbs to get things moving and carried on to the rest of my workout. Today's workout buddy: Kevin Freakin' Bieksa of the Vancouver Canucks! OK, not really, but he was there in the same gym! Mrs. Sage got a picture with him and everything.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

Did you at least consider giving him a "d'ya even lift bro?" lol.
Actually he's not exactly pumped looking, but then again having Arnold muscles on ice skates probably wouldn't be best for the job.


----------



## Murmel

I seldom see hockey players being shredded and huge. I mean, sure they're probably strong, but they don't seem to be as big as say football players.


----------



## sage

What you don't see from the photo is his legs are enormous compared to his upper body. I watched his entire session and it was all lower body/core focused with the exception of some barbell and dumbbell rows. He was using fairly light weights, I didn't see him put up any more than 135 lbs on any given lift, but I think he might have been there for a form tune-up. The guy that runs the physio out of the gym is widely considered to be an excellent trainer and he was with him the whole time, just giving little pointers here and there. I'll tell you one thing, it was worth the price of admission today. Watching a 5 million dollar a year hockey player getting form tips and seeing what sort of exercises he does was really eye opening. Also, watching a hockey player getting tuned up to start his off-season training before the NHL playoffs are even over really shows what sort of dedication and hard work goes into being a professional athlete. 

I did consider a "how much you bench?"


----------



## Scar Symmetry

Trained legs with a PT yesterday. Never knew I could dig so deep! Felt great. 

So hooked on the gym right now, it's become my new addiction.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

Yeah I guess it's not wise to joke a guy who can come back with a "do you even make thousands of dollars per minute bro?".


----------



## anunnaki

I have a weights bench in my house and my friends and I are planning on working out 3 times a week at my place for about 2 months during the summer. I've put myself in charge of organising a workout regime and general diet plan for me and the guys, but I have no idea how to make a weights regime. For the cardio I'm planning on doing a 7 minute HIIT workout that I found online, it seems to be pretty good it involves doing 30 seconds of one exercise such as press-ups, or planks, followed by 10 seconds of rest followed by another 30 seconds of exercise and so on until we do 12 different exercises, here's a video of it:
 
it has some funny songs with it too
I'm thinking of throwing in a bit of yoga into the workout regime, I have a book about yoga somewhere in my house, but any advice on that would be appreciated.
If anyone could tell me how I would go about coming up with a weights regime I would much appreciate it because I don't know where to start and I didn't understand any stuff that I've read about workout regimes so far. I know that I'll have to learn about proper weight lifting form, I've watched a few videos on form so far. Cheers guys.


----------



## anunnaki

I found this workout regime: Easy 3-Day Workout Routine - AskMen



> Day 1 - Chest, back, abdominal muscles, and cardiovascular exercises (30 minutes)
> Day 2 - Day off
> Day 3 - Shoulders, legs, abdominal muscles, and cardiovascular exercises (30 minutes)
> Day 4 - Day off
> Day 5 - Biceps, triceps, abdominal muscles, and cardiovascular exercises (30 minutes)
> Day 6 - Day off
> Day 7 - Day off



How does this sound?


----------



## Murmel

^
It's fine, as long as you're lifting heavy with big, compound exercises and eating well you're gonna see gains.

I personally would do chest/tri and back/bi instead of having a separate arm-day.


----------



## anunnaki

Murmel said:


> ^
> It's fine, as long as you're lifting heavy with big, compound exercises and eating well you're gonna see gains.
> 
> I personally would do chest/tri and back/bi instead of having a separate arm-day.



Ok that sounds good. I read that high weights and low reps is what you want to be doing to build muscle. 

Do I need to eat as much on rest days as I do on the days when I'm working out?


----------



## Murmel

If you want to gain you should eat a lot, workout day or not.
This is where I usually fail


----------



## axxessdenied

Week 2. Still loving it. Missed a day becuase I didn't know the gym closed earlier on sunday. Made up for it with an extra hard workout.

So far my workout consists of stretching to warm up, lifting, then hitting cardio for 40 mins (started at 25 and hit 40 mins on the third day!! ) then I hit the foam roller to help with muscle tightness and then do a post workout stretch. Feels amazing.

I need to develop a routine for lifting though!


----------



## Uncreative123

anunnaki said:


> I found this workout regime: Easy 3-Day Workout Routine - AskMen
> 
> 
> 
> How does this sound?





Terrible. You're doing abs every single time you go to the gym. You're hitting your shoulders every time you go to the gym. You're doing "legs" ONCE a week. You're only going 3x a week. And you're trying to cram way too much into one session. Chest, Back, abs, and cardio all in one session- seriously? That would take me nearly three hours and by the end of it I wouldn't be worth a shit at all. It's far more effective to split that up into three one hour sessions over three days. Think about it- instead of being completely gassed, your intensity will be much higher through each workout.
Do the cardio on "off" days. Do the abs with the cardio on off days. Don't do shoulders and legs together. The regiment you listed is begging for an injury or a burnout- whichever comes sooner.


----------



## UnderTheSign

Uncreative123 said:


> Terrible. You're doing abs every single time you go to the gym. You're hitting your shoulders every time you go to the gym. You're doing "legs" ONCE a week. You're only going 3x a week. And you're trying to cram way too much into one session. Chest, Back, abs, and cardio all in one session- seriously? That would take me nearly three hours and by the end of it I wouldn't be worth a shit at all. It's far more effective to split that up into three one hour sessions over three days. Think about it- instead of being completely gassed, your intensity will be much higher through each workout.
> Do the cardio on "off" days. Do the abs with the cardio on off days. Don't do shoulders and legs together. The regiment you listed is begging for an injury or a burnout- whichever comes sooner.


Assuming a 3-day split, how would you do it? I've seen people recommend back/bis, chest/tris and leg/shoulders but I'd go with a good ol' push/pull/legs.


----------



## Aevolve

UnderTheSign said:


> Assuming a 3-day split, how would you do it? I've seen people recommend back/bis, chest/tris and leg/shoulders but I'd go with a good ol' push/pull/legs.



Granted I do a 4-day push/pull now, I have squats on my push day.


----------



## soliloquy

UnderTheSign said:


> Assuming a 3-day split, how would you do it? I've seen people recommend back/bis, chest/tris and leg/shoulders but I'd go with a good ol' push/pull/legs.



day 1: chest and upper back

day 2: legs and lower back (throw abs if you want)

day 3: arms/traps/shoulders/HITT/abs if you want

cardio in day offs, or short HITT to wherever your body/energy level lets you fit it in...

at least that works well for me.

though i think i need to add a 4th day to do heavy legs on day 2, and then light legs on day 4.


----------



## Murmel

^
Do you deadlift and squat in the same day? I would split those exercises apart, because your core and legs are going to be so exhausted after one of them that the other is going to suffer immensely.

I'm just blindly assuming that you are doing to those exercises.


----------



## soliloquy

Murmel said:


> ^
> Do you deadlift and squat in the same day? I would split those exercises apart, because your core and legs are going to be so exhausted after one of them that the other is going to suffer immensely.
> 
> I'm just blindly assuming that you are doing to those exercises.



my legs day consist of these from start to finish:
warm up for arms/wrists/forearms.
warm up for lower back, and legs via body weight alternative lunges, jumps etc

deadlifts 5X5 (between sets i try doing box/bench jumps or step ups)
leg press 5X5 (cant do squats for more than 150 as they start hurting my upper back. unless its me holding it behind me, under my butt. but again, my wrists cant support the weights. so leg press)
a set of bench step up or box/bench jumps

weighted jumping alternating lunges 5 sets of 10+ (between sets i do supermans)

leg extension 5X5

leg curls 5X8 (dropping weight just to complete the 8 reps)

leg abductor

lower back extension weighted (5 sets of 10+)

if i feel like, i throw in abs or tredmill/bike for a few mins afterwards. if its abs, then its weighted leg raises, planks etc)

my legs days are fairly intensive. and i usually cramp all that in about 1.5ish hours. i am sweating buckets, but my energy level usually stays fairly high all through out. 

my other two days in the gym i dont sweat while doing weights. i sweat during HITT that is in between sets.

my energy USUALLY stays high regardless of the days. and my muscles usually take about 2-3ish days to recover.

but my gains for deadlifts are VERY slow. and my calfs need a shitload more work. so thats why i'm thinking of adding a second day for legs. a light and heavy day. light day may include more HIIT like leap frogs, bench step ups, bench jumps and other pylometrics.


----------



## Infamous Impact

soliloquy said:


> leg press 5X5 (cant do squats for more than 150 as they start hurting my upper back. unless its me holding it behind me, under my butt. but again, my wrists cant support the weights. so leg press)


So much wrong with this.

1. You shouldn't be feeling any pain in your upper back. Check to see if your bar placement is correct, and the bar is resting on your traps or traps and rear delts if you're doing low bar.
2. Your wrists aren't supposed to support any weight at all. Keep them in line with your elbows. If you allow the bar to be supported by your wrists you will snap them in no time.
3. Squeeze your scapula together tight while setting up under the bar. You don't want the bar to be resting on your spine.

I feel no pain while squatting over 4 plate. I simply stay tight and keep the bar on my body, not my wrists or spine.


----------



## soliloquy

Infamous Impact said:


> So much wrong with this.
> 
> 1. You shouldn't be feeling any pain in your upper back. Check to see if your bar placement is correct, and the bar is resting on your traps or traps and rear delts if you're doing low bar.
> 2. Your wrists aren't supposed to support any weight at all. Keep them in line with your elbows. If you allow the bar to be supported by your wrists you will snap them in no time.
> 3. Squeeze your scapula together tight while setting up under the bar. You don't want the bar to be resting on your spine.
> 
> I feel no pain while squatting over 4 plate. I simply stay tight and keep the bar on my body, not my wrists or spine.




i mean doing hack squats. my fingers cant hold that much weight. even if the weight is being supported by the arms, the end is being held up with your fingers.

its the same problem i have with deadlifts, though i can support more weight with alternating grip. even if your legs/lower back are lifting the main weight, your fingers are doing the 'holding up of weights'. 

so if my body can do about 285lbs in deadlifts, my fingers will only allow me to do 250lbs before they drop the weights, or i reset my grip after every other rep.


----------



## Infamous Impact

soliloquy said:


> i mean doing hack squats. my fingers cant hold that much weight. even if the weight is being supported by the arms, the end is being held up with your fingers.
> 
> its the same problem i have with deadlifts, though i can support more weight with alternating grip. even if your legs/lower back are lifting the main weight, your fingers are doing the 'holding up of weights'.
> 
> so if my body can do about 285lbs in deadlifts, my fingers will only allow me to do 250lbs before they drop the weights, or i reset my grip after every other rep.


Maybe it would help if you did some actual squatting. Forearms should not be your limiting factor on legs day.


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

Chalk up for deadlifts and decrease the weight, lift off explosively. I ensure that my grip strength is NEVER my limiting factor when deadlifting.


----------



## UnderTheSign

soliloquy said:


> i mean doing hack squats. my fingers cant hold that much weight. even if the weight is being supported by the arms, the end is being held up with your fingers.
> 
> its the same problem i have with deadlifts, though i can support more weight with alternating grip. even if your legs/lower back are lifting the main weight, your fingers are doing the 'holding up of weights'.
> 
> so if my body can do about 285lbs in deadlifts, my fingers will only allow me to do 250lbs before they drop the weights, or i reset my grip after every other rep.


Show a vid of you squatting, if your arms hurt there might be a LOT you're doing wrong.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

soliloquy said:


> i mean doing hack squats. my fingers cant hold that much weight. even if the weight is being supported by the arms, the end is being held up with your fingers.
> 
> its the same problem i have with deadlifts, though i can support more weight with alternating grip. even if your legs/lower back are lifting the main weight, your fingers are doing the 'holding up of weights'.
> 
> so if my body can do about 285lbs in deadlifts, my fingers will only allow me to do 250lbs before they drop the weights, or i reset my grip after every other rep.


 
Hack machines are cool (be them free-weight loaded or an actual machine with pin plates), but really I wouldn't mess with doing them manually by holding the bar behind you down low.

I think the better option if you can't get comfortable with the bar on your back would be either dumbbell squatting or even the much hated bar pad for regular barbell squats.
The pad can itself inspire positioning problems though, so it's important to get locked into the proper groove and not let the pad roll while doing the set.

Most of the time when I see someone struggling a bit with bar comfort or form it is because the bar is sitting up too high on the lower neck almost.
Try rolling the bar back until it's just about ready to fall over the cliff.
But as already said, you really have to use/squeeze the upper back muscles to form a natural padded base for the bar.


----------



## soliloquy

UnderTheSign said:


> Show a vid of you squatting, if your arms hurt there might be a LOT you're doing wrong.



regardless of how one does hacksquats, your arms/fingers/palm are holding the EXACT same weight that your legs are doing. no other way of looking around it. the weights dont hang on your shoulders/upper back. they dont hang on your waist either.



now because they are rear loaded, i cant do as much weight on it than when i'm using the machine to do leg press. but i feel i get more out of it


----------



## Infamous Impact

soliloquy said:


> regardless of how one does hacksquats, your arms/fingers/palm are holding the EXACT same weight that your legs are doing. no other way of looking around it. the weights dont hang on your shoulders/upper back. they dont hang on your waist either.
> 
> 
> 
> now because they are rear loaded, i cant do as much weight on it than when i'm using the machine to do leg press. but i feel i get more out of it



Yet again, do some squats where the bar is on your back or your clavicles.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

Keeping the chest all puffed up and the gut all sucked in will do wonders for good form on just about every damned lift. 
Plus, as added benefits, it makes most lifts generally safer and more effective, it makes you look bigger when repping, and even on curls it gets you the girls.


----------



## UnderTheSign

Infamous Impact said:


> Yet again, do some squats where the bar is on your back or your clavicles.


Yeah, I thought we were talking about regular squats here. Do regular squats.


----------



## Aevolve

So guys- due to my hospital visit I'm not able to lift again until the 24th. Any tips for keeping mass/strength during my hiatus other than keeping my protein intake up?


----------



## Uncreative123

Aevolve said:


> So guys- due to my hospital visit I'm not able to lift again until the 24th. Any tips for keeping mass/strength during my hiatus other than keeping my protein intake up?





Just take a break. That's only slightly over a week.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

Yeah it takes like two weeks before atrophy really starts, so just keep with a normal pro anabolic-state diet and you're likely to have an above average session next workout.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Missed 315 on a bench max attempt. But I nailed 300x2 right before hand. Any tips on increasing my 1rm quickly? I know that 1rm's aren't too good to do, but my football coach insists I increase it to 330 by August.


----------



## Infamous Impact

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> Missed 315 on a bench max attempt. But I nailed 300x2 right before hand. Any tips on increasing my 1rm quickly? I know that 1rm's aren't too good to do, but my football coach insists I increase it to 330 by August.


Eat a ton the days before your max and use some ammonia before your attempt.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Infamous Impact said:


> Eat a ton the days before your max and use some ammonia before your attempt.


Ammonia? What the hell?


----------



## TRENCHLORD

Smelling salt will wake your ass up in a hurry!!!

I'd probably say to cycle up to the max day by going heavy a few times in a row.

Like maybe 3 sets of 5,

then the next session go 3 sets of 3,

then 5 sets of 1 (consecutive singles) with about 15-20 pounds under max (basically your 2rep weight)
with no more than 3min rest between sets (really try to explode these up from a dead stop at the bottom),

then don't train anything other than legs for the 4-5 days before max.


----------



## Aevolve

Uncreative123 said:


> Just take a break. That's only slightly over a week.





TRENCHLORD said:


> Yeah it takes like two weeks before atrophy really starts, so just keep with a normal pro anabolic-state diet and you're likely to have an above average session next workout.



I was dismissed from the hospital on May 22nd, it will be nearly a month. I went to the gym 3 times last week, heeding advice from a cardiothorasic surgeon who said I only needed to wait 2 weeks following dismissal, then during my follow-up appointment with my pulmonologist I was told I should wait until the 24th.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

^^^^ 
You should really air on the side of caution with something like that.
Not a good time to push it.
I'd be over-paranoid/fearfull if it were me. 

I almost scare myself sometimes pushing sets as far as possible, like I'm going to blow a gasket or something lol.
I never really get feeling like my heart or lungs are struggling but I'll probably give myself an amorism one of these days lol. (time for some more term life insurance)


----------



## Infamous Impact

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> Ammonia? What the hell?


It burns your nose and lungs so be careful about taking a whiff of it, but because of it you get woken up and you're very alert for a short amount of time.


----------



## gunshow86de

So, last week, I picked up some rings from Rogue fitness. Did my dips on those instead of the usual bar dips. If you're still doing bar dips, you're doing it wrong.  I can't remember the last time my tri's and chest were so sore (in a good way).


----------



## sage

Sweet niblets, please tell me we're not recommending sniffing ammonia to high school students. 

From the Canadian Centre for Occupational Health and Safety regarding ammonia:

Inhalation: VERY TOXIC, can cause death. Can cause severe irritation of the nose and throat. Can cause life-threatening accumulation of fluid in the lungs (pulmonary edema). Symptoms may include coughing, shortness of breath, difficult breathing and tightness in the chest. Symptoms may develop hours after exposure and are made worse by physical effort. Long-term damage may result from a severe short-term exposure.

Just lift the weights. If you can't lift the weights, work out with a long term plan to be able to lift the weights. Inhaling ammonia so you can _maybe_ put up an extra 10 lbs is dumb. It means that you couldn't have done it without the ammonia, so it's meaningless anyway.


----------



## sage

Also, if your coach is really pushing for this 1RM of 330lbs on the bench, you might do well to remind him that, in football, if you're lying on your back trying to heave 330lbs off your chest, you already lost that play.


----------



## Harry

Infamous Impact said:


> Yet again, do some squats where the bar is on your back or your clavicles.



If you're talking about front squats, the bar is NOT meant to be on your clavicles  That would mean your elbows are too low, bad racking technique.
The elbows should be higher with the bar sitting across the shoulders


----------



## Infamous Impact

Harry said:


> If you're talking about front squats, the bar is NOT meant to be on your clavicles  That would mean your elbows are too low, bad racking technique.
> The elbows should be higher with the bar sitting across the shoulders


Slipped my mind, my bad.


----------



## soliloquy

have any one of you tried something called the 'burn set' where you constantly drop weights after every set without any rest for 4-5 sets in total; then rest for a bit, and go for 2-3 more sets of just 8-12 reps?

ie:



also, if you haven't seen him, the things this guy can do are quiet impressive. kane sumabat:


----------



## gunshow86de

Harry said:


> If you're talking about front squats, the bar is NOT meant to be on your clavicles  That would mean your elbows are too low, bad racking technique.
> The elbows should be higher with the bar sitting across the shoulders



Ahhh the front rack, my old nemesis. I am so inflexible in that area. I finally learned to hook grip, but it's still a struggle to get my elbows up and forearms parallel to the floor. I pretty much have to hook the bar with just my index and middle fingers. Transitioning from that hook to a jerk/pushpress is terrifying when you are first learning.  It get's easier and more comfortable as you work with it.



gunshow86de said:


> So, last week, I picked up some rings from Rogue fitness. Did my dips on those instead of the usual bar dips. If you're still doing bar dips, you're doing it wrong.  I can't remember the last time my tri's and chest were so sore (in a good way).



Had my second go-around with the ring dips on Friday. I can't recommend them enough. I know some of you guys will shy away because they are for the "trendy crossfitter set," but I promise they are worth your time. Best analogy I've read, "The ring dip is to the bar dip as squats are to leg press (ouch!)." They engage the lateral and medial heads of your tricep in a way that bar dips just can't. Accurate analogy is accurate.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

soliloquy said:


> have any one of you tried something called the 'burn set' where you constantly drop weights after every set without any rest for 4-5 sets in total; then rest for a bit, and go for 2-3 more sets of just 8-12 reps?


 
That's just a drop-set (which I've mentioned about 100 times on this thread alone lol). 
You can extend it to any degree but honestly more than a triple will put you more into the aerobic zone. 

Also, for drop sets start on the heavy side at about your 5 rep weight, that way the total set length after the double or triple drop will still be in the 60-90 second range, or less.
When you drop just take off 20lbs on barbells or 10lbs with dumbells, so that each successive weight only takes 5-8 reps to fail (or less even).


----------



## Murmel

After getting a fair hang of hang-cleans, I decided to attempt a full clean today. So much more difficult than doing it from a hanging position.


----------



## gunshow86de

Murmel said:


> After getting a fair hang of hang-cleans, I decided to attempt a full clean today. So much more difficult than doing it from a hanging position.





Hardest part for me is catching in the front rack. It's so hard for me just to get past a 45 degree angle. I watch real Olympic lifters and their forearms are perfectly parallel to the floor. How the .... do they do that? At least Squatting and Jerking (giggle) are easy for me.


----------



## Infamous Impact

gunshow86de said:


> Hardest part for me is catching in the front rack. It's so hard for me just to get past a 45 degree angle. I watch real Olympic lifters and their forearms are perfectly parallel to the floor. How the .... do they do that? At least Squatting and Jerking (giggle) are easy for me.


There's a couple videos on California Strength's YT channel which should help you with getting the rack.


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

Hey guys, I'm training with my best friend over this summer so he can build up some strength and I can increase mine (not to mention fitness) over summer for rugby season, but he's reaaaally thin and weak (like 6'1, 135lbs).

I'm training him a beginner's 5/3/1 with no cardio (initially), and telling him to eat big high-protein, high-carb meals and drink 2 litres of whole milk a day.

Is there anything else he should be doing that I may have missed?


----------



## Infamous Impact

Captain Shoggoth said:


> Hey guys, I'm training with my best friend over this summer so he can build up some strength and I can increase mine (not to mention fitness) over summer for rugby season, but he's reaaaally thin and weak (like 6'1, 135lbs).
> 
> I'm training him a beginner's 5/3/1 with no cardio (initially), and telling him to eat big high-protein, high-carb meals and drink 2 litres of whole milk a day.
> 
> Is there anything else he should be doing that I may have missed?


Put him on a linear progression, 5/3/1 isn't the best for beginners because progression is monthly, and small increases at that. He won't be able to take advantage of the massive strength and size gains a beginner gets with a periodization routine.


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

Infamous Impact said:


> Put him on a linear progression, 5/3/1 isn't the best for beginners because progression is monthly, and small increases at that. He won't be able to take advantage of the massive strength and size gains a beginner gets with a periodization routine.



I was thinking of doing the Boring But Big template, but with just 5 reps and weight increase every week. Cheers


----------



## UnderTheSign

Captain Shoggoth said:


> I was thinking of doing the Boring But Big template, but with just 5 reps and weight increase every week. Cheers


Why 5 reps instead of 10? I found the 10 reps are a great growth stimulation and you're already doing lower rep work on the 5/3/1 sets so I don't see the use of adding another couple sets of 5.

edit: unless I'm misunderstanding and you want to replace the 5/3/1 sets by 5x5 or 3x5, which I think would be a better choice in this guys case. So 3x5 followed by 5x10, then some accesory work.


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

Yeah the latter, so 3x5 followed by 5x10, then accessory work


----------



## Kaickul

Any ectomorphs here could share what workout program have worked out for you?


----------



## Ironbird

Liquid Rage,

I was underweight (56.5kg / 125lbs) in early Jan, and was sick of being skinny all my life. Some people don't understand this, but being called scrawny is just as bad as being called fat. 

So I decided to do something... 4 months before turning 30. 6 months into my regime (details below) and I'm progressing steadily toward my first goal: to hit 68kg / 150 lbs by end December. I'm 63kg / 139lbs now.

*Workout routine*
Day 1: Chest + biceps
Day 2: Core
Day 3: Back + triceps
Day 4: Legs + shoulders

I try to rest after Days 1 & 2, but it's a personal preference. I try not to work out 3 days in a row.

*Diet/supplements*
Meal 1 (9am) - Protein shake (Muscletech Mass Tech - half serving)
Meal 2 (11am) - 2 slices whole wheat bread, 2 tbsp sugarless peanut butter, 1 serving almonds OR 6 tbsp oats, 1 serving almonds
Meal 3 (1pm) - 2 slices whole wheat bread, half can tuna, 2 tbsp olive oil
Meal 4 (3pm) - 1 cup cherry tomatoes, 1 green apple guava
Dinner - I eat whatever is available but try to keep it clean: white rice, chicken, vegetables, milk etc
Before bed - Protein shake (Muscletech Mass Tech - half serving)

Supplements: multivitamins, fish oil.

This seems to be working really well for me, I am gaining 1kg / 2.2lbs muscle mass each month without fail. I am glad to be able to share this, and I really hope this helps you. Just a note, I also stopped drinking completely, and I feel that this has played a big part too.

Good luck!


----------



## UnderTheSign

Liquid Rage said:


> Any ectomorphs here could share what workout program have worked out for you?


I think the most important factor to us ectomorphs is diet. Eat big and eat relatively clean and growth will follow - or at least, that's what I experienced. Workout programming depends a lot on personal preference and finding out what works for you as I've heard different stuff from a lot of guys. 
Some recommendations include 5/3/1 with Boring But Big accessory (progress is slow but steady) and HRT solo. The first being a good combination of strenght/size, the latter is a great hypertrophy program.


----------



## Forrest_H

I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask this, but... 

I've been beating the crap out of my abdominal muscles for awhile, and I can _feel_ the difference, but not see it. At least, not as much as I want to. Can someone recommend me a good cardio exercise? Would HIIT work well?


----------



## UnderTheSign

Forrest_H said:


> I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask this, but...
> 
> I've been beating the crap out of my abdominal muscles for awhile, and I can _feel_ the difference, but not see it. At least, not as much as I want to. Can someone recommend me a good cardio exercise? Would HIIT work well?


Because abs don't show purely by exercising. Also, keep in mind they're still muscles and shouldn't be trained daily.
Diet and HIIT cardio should help you. Read through the other recent threads in this forum


----------



## Forrest_H

UnderTheSign said:


> Because abs don't show purely by exercising. Also, keep in mind they're still muscles and shouldn't be trained daily.
> Diet and HIIT cardio should help you. Read through the other recent threads in this forum



I figured as much  Thanks for the help man!


----------



## Guamskyy

gunshow86de said:


> Hardest part for me is catching in the front rack. It's so hard for me just to get past a 45 degree angle. I watch real Olympic lifters and their forearms are perfectly parallel to the floor. How the .... do they do that? At least Squatting and Jerking (giggle) are easy for me.



When you say get past a 45 degree angle, I'm assuming you're talking about receiving the bar at the rack position? Or are you talking about getting your elbows up and parallel to the floor? If it's the first, focus on your third pull (pulling yourself under the bar) which means triple extension (knees, hips, ankles) followed by a big shrug. After your shrug and your traps and shoulders return to their normal, non contracted position, it pulls your body under your bar, in which you finish the pull under with throwing your elbows under the bar to keep it racked. If it's the second, look up some forearm stretching exercises to loosen up the muscles. You want your elbows parallel to the floor.


----------



## soliloquy

for those who are fasting...i feel for you.
ramadan started about 10 days ago, and i'm already down 11 lbs. if i'm not eating, working out, and getting sufficient sleep, i'm always losing weight, which i absolutely hate! 
last year i lost 15 the entire month. the 2 and 3 years ago i lost 10...whatever i gain all year in the gym usually goes to waste during ramadan :-/


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

soliloquy said:


> for those who are fasting...i feel for you.
> ramadan started about 10 days ago, and i'm already down 11 lbs. if i'm not eating, working out, and getting sufficient sleep, i'm always losing weight, which i absolutely hate!
> last year i lost 15 the entire month. the 2 and 3 years ago i lost 10...whatever i gain all year in the gym usually goes to waste during ramadan :-/



I try and eat as much as possible during dark hours, and train light (mainly isolation exercises with medium weights, no cardio) immediately prior to and during sunset. I've only lost about 2 or 3 pounds, almost all of it fat


----------



## Infamous Impact

Captain Shoggoth said:


> I try and eat as much as possible during dark hours, and train light (mainly isolation exercises with medium weights, no cardio) immediately prior to and during sunset. I've only lost about 2 or 3 pounds, almost all of it fat


I keep my training schedule similar to non-fasting, minus conditioning. Heavy lifting in the weight room, and technique on the track. I try and drink a gallon of water before the sun comes up and eat just enough to maintain. I lose 5-6 pounds during daylight hours, all of which is water that I gain back at night.


----------



## UCBmetal

Liquid Rage said:


> Any ectomorphs here could share what workout program have worked out for you?



Hey man, I unfortunately only discovered the program after about a year or so of lifting and general bro-ing down at the gym and in the kitchen, but the Jim Stoppani 12 week program "Shortcut to Size" has been fantastic in my quest to escape skinny-hood. Take it easy!

Edited to add the link http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/shortcut-to-size.html


----------



## soliloquy

Captain Shoggoth said:


> I try and eat as much as possible during dark hours, and train light (mainly isolation exercises with medium weights, no cardio) immediately prior to and during sunset. I've only lost about 2 or 3 pounds, almost all of it fat



thats kinda hard to do considering you're fasting for 19 hours of the day. the gap between the 'start eating' and 'stop eating' time is so short that you can either stuff your stomach, or get your sleep during then. 

normally when i wasn't fasting, gaining and losing 5 lbs a day was easy due to food and water. but now, i'm not getting any of that, thus all i do is just lose more and more weight. 

even lifting the lightest boxes i find a bit challenging as you're depriving your body of all the nutrients it was used to getting for a good 11 months of the year


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Well, as you guys who frequent this thread can tell, I haven't posted in here in quite awhile. Reason being I sprained my wrist in late June during a football game. Today was the only time I have been able to lift weights since. I can't grip a bar with enough pressure to do anything other than squat at the moment. It still hurts too much to bench.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> Well, as you guys who frequent this thread can tell, I haven't posted in here in quite awhile. Reason being I sprained my wrist in late June during a football game. Today was the only time I have been able to lift weights since. I can't grip a bar with enough pressure to do anything other than squat at the moment. It still hurts too much to bench.


 
Football in June? You guys do passing league out there (5 on 5 or whatever)?
Sounds like a good excuse to make the lady do everything for you. (everything hahaha)


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

TRENCHLORD said:


> Football in June? You guys do passing league out there (5 on 5 or whatever)?
> Sounds like a good excuse to make the lady do everything for you. (everything hahaha)


Yeah we do the 7 on 7. I continued to play with it in a brace. I led our league in INT's as a kid from a 1B school, competing against 2A and 4A schools. 

The only sort of chest workout I can do is pushups on my knuckles.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

As a former back I can sympathize. I was always getting my fingers smashed and my left thumb pulled back some how.
They made me wear a splint a couple times but after that I just lied and said it was O.K. because the splint just made it worse and easier to snag.
It was actually better to carry the ball with the bad hand so I'd have my stiff-arm still to use


----------



## Seanthesheep

you guys dont have summer football leagues?

around here we have fall football thats like late august to november/december thats house leagues or high school (same shit different name) but then come january training starts for summer football which is Rep 

that being said, wrist and hand injuries are the worst, Ive broken my wrist and thumb multiple times (only on my left side) and its really ....ed me over in terms of my left side being weaker than the right, even now like 5 years after Ive stopped playing

btw just want to say the workout routine ive been doing as of late has been really great, Ive dropped 10lbs in one month and am starting to seriously lean out and get definition. Im still a long ways off for sure but the progress is showing. not sure ive posted my routine but here it is

10 minute run/cardio
2 different sets of weights (3x12 for each set)
5 mins run/cardio
2 different sets of weights (3x12 for each set)
5 mins run/cardio
2 different sets of weights (3x12 for each set)


----------



## Aevolve

First day back in the gym today after taking over 1.5 months off thanks to surgery on my left lung.

.... have I deteriorated.

Got tired so easily, couldn't finish the whole routine without pushing too hard- and I'm trying to kindof ease into it.

I look like complete and utter shit.

I feel like shit.

Shit.


----------



## Murmel

Had 2 weeks off, one where I was working at a festival doing mostly manual labour and sleeping/eating like crap for the entire week. The other I was sick for about 6 days straight.

Got my first workout in yesterday and a second today, killed them both and they were super intense. I'm gonna try increasing the intensity of my workouts because I feel like I rest too much.
As expected, my reps weren't as high on some excersises, but fwak me did it feel amazing going that hard.

I basically had to force myself to rest properly, because between sets I felt the urge of going right back into it


----------



## Infamous Impact

This book. Is worth every cent. Your body will thank you and reward you.


----------



## JP Universe

Been out for 2 weeks due to moving interstate..... looking forward to getting back into routine


----------



## gunshow86de

Infamous Impact said:


> This book. Is worth every cent. Your body will thank you and reward you.



I just got this the other day. It's so much material, but I really need it to fix my shoulder issues. It's also sort of depressing to learn how bad my posture is, especially sitting at a desk all day.


----------



## Idontpersonally

Has anyone had any skin discoloration or dry, alligator like spots after using protiens/creatines? Also, even though i use a towel or something to help with grip im still getting sores on my hands. They just get darker should i try dry skin cream or something before/after?


----------



## Infamous Impact

Idontpersonally said:


> Has anyone had any skin discoloration or dry, alligator like spots after using protiens/creatines? Also, even though i use a towel or something to help with grip im still getting sores on my hands. They just get darker should i try dry skin cream or something before/after?


Protein or creatine supplements shouldn't be the cause, otherwise you'd have these spots your whole life. Protein and creatine are synthesized by your body.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

Idontpersonally said:


> Has anyone had any skin discoloration or dry, alligator like spots after using protiens/creatines? Also, even though i use a towel or something to help with grip im still getting sores on my hands. They just get darker should i try dry skin cream or something before/after?


 
Couldn't it be some sort of an std? (hahaha, hope not)


----------



## Idontpersonally

Edit** never mind you were right.. I was just a little Turkish herpes


----------



## Murmel

Man... The drive home after finishing an arm workout. Fortunately there are no sharp turns except in and out of the the parking lot on my way home


----------



## TRENCHLORD

Idontpersonally said:


> Edit** never mind you were right.. I was just a little Turkish herpes


 
I wouldn't know, as I've only battled the Bulgarian strain. 6x in fact.


----------



## texshred777

Murmel said:


> Man... The drive home after finishing an arm workout. Fortunately there are no sharp turns except in and out of the the parking lot on my way home


 
I feel that, my car's a manual transmission. That's fun on leg day.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

texshred777 said:


> I feel that, my car's a manual transmission. That's fun on leg day.


 
Sounds like a wreck waiting to happen.

I can deal with tricep cramps much easier than hamstring cramps lol.


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

>I start driving lessons this month
>back to training after Ramadan and I have to cram a hell of a lot in before rugby season starts

I forsee pain in my near future


----------



## Infamous Impact

TRENCHLORD said:


> Sounds like a wreck waiting to happen.
> 
> I can deal with tricep cramps much easier than hamstring cramps lol.


Hamstring cramps on the pedal leg... Oh god I almost rear ended a guy the other day after sprints.



Captain Shoggoth said:


> >I start driving lessons this month
> >back to training after Ramadan and I have to cram a hell of a lot in before rugby season starts
> 
> I forsee pain in my near future


>Not training over Ramadan and drinking a gallon of fluids in the evening
>Bye-bye gains


----------



## texshred777

Never had an issue luckily enough. My foot just gets shaky when I'm manipulating the clutch a little bit.


----------



## UnderTheSign

Murmel said:


> Man... The drive home after finishing an arm workout. Fortunately there are no sharp turns except in and out of the the parking lot on my way home


Imagine having to walk down a bunch of stairs then cycling home for 30 mins from the gym after leg day


----------



## Aevolve

texshred777 said:


> I feel that, my car's a manual transmission. That's fun on leg day.



Mine too. Makes me regret doing any calf work at all.


----------



## Idontpersonally

homeless mans bench spot


----------



## texshred777

^^
Better free weight setup than my old gym(Planet Fitness).

Not joking..at least that bum can do squats.


----------



## Idontpersonally

TRENCHLORD said:


> I wouldn't know, as I've only battled the Bulgarian strain. 6x in fact.




Dont let herpes become yourpes.


----------



## Valennic

texshred777 said:


> ^^
> Better free weight setup than my old gym(Planet Fitness).
> 
> Not joking..at least that bum can do squats.



.... smith machine squats. So uncomfortable.

I just started lifting under a month ago. I'm loving it so far. Can't wait to see how far I can go.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

I'd rather do leg-press any day over smith-squats.
Smiths are killer for inclines and overhead press though.


----------



## texshred777

I won't use a Smith Machine. Especially for squats. Stabilizing the bar is an important part of lifting.


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

TRENCHLORD said:


> I'd rather do leg-press any day over smith-squats.
> Smiths are killer for inclines and overhead press though.



I was away for a couple of weeks recently, only had the opportunity to use the gym twice but there was no free bar so I had to use a smith.

Overhead pressing with a smith is ....ing awful IMO, my shoulder felt funny for a day afterward. Incline bench was the only thing that felt somewhat normal-God I hate the smith machine.


----------



## UnderTheSign

TRENCHLORD said:


> I'd rather do leg-press any day over smith-squats.
> Smiths are killer for inclines and overhead press though.


Leg press for overall leg work but I've found the smith works nice to isolate the quads some more, especially as I often feel a bit too tall and clumsy for my gyms hack squat machine.


----------



## Aevolve

Getting back into the swing of things after my hospital visits this Summer.

Realized how much strength I lost in the couple months of recuperating so I'm gonna try out an SS routine for a while to try and bring it back up.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

UnderTheSign said:


> Leg press for overall leg work but I've found the smith works nice to isolate the quads some more, especially as I often feel a bit too tall and clumsy for my gyms hack squat machine.


 
Yeah doing them hack-style isn't too bad. Feet out in front more and not crazy weight. More of an isolation really, like you're saying.


----------



## Idontpersonally

Leg day!


----------



## Ironbird

Valennic said:


> .... smith machine squats. So uncomfortable.
> 
> I just started lifting under a month ago. I'm loving it so far. Can't wait to see how far I can go.


I started taking fitness really seriously about 8 months ago. Once you start seeing results, you'll never stop! 

All the best dude!


----------



## Harry

TRENCHLORD said:


> I'd rather do leg-press any day over smith-squats.
> Smiths are killer for inclines and overhead press though.



Absolute hell on the shoulders for the vast majority of lifters that are already lacking in shoulder mobility and don't have the biomechanics to do BB OHP correctly, let alone the Smith machine.
For the few that can genuinely get away with it, it works okay though.



Idontpersonally said:


> Leg day!





To be fair, calves are more or less the muscle most dependent on genetics (and to a lesser extent, environment) to have success with getting them bigger and/or starting out with a good size in the first place.
If your calf insertions are too high, you can train them to hell and back and they wont really grow much, if at all.

Then again, I see tons of guys at the gym training (if you can even call it that) calves horribly. 
Loading up the seated and standing calve raise machines with tons of weight, but simply bouncing their achilles tendon/s up and down as fast as possible. 
Gotta let go of the ego, take the weight off and do those reps slowly and with control.


That said, I still laugh anyway when I see guys with jacked upper arms and tiny calves because it looks so damn disproportionate


----------



## Murmel

So I've decided to give sumo deadlifts a shot. Being tall with short arms and long legs is making conventional deads difficult, and they've been hurting my lower back quite a lot lately.

Noticed right away that sumo's are much more dependant on leg strength.


----------



## Harry

Murmel said:


> So I've decided to give sumo deadlifts a shot. Being tall with short arms and long legs is making conventional deads difficult, and they've been hurting my lower back quite a lot lately.
> 
> Noticed right away that sumo's are much more dependant on leg strength.



Sumo is generally a more technical lift, but something you should bear in mind:
You absolutely MUST making hip mobility a top priority, otherwise it wont be long before your hips are shot to hell. 
Less demanding on the lower back,sure, but significantly increased demands on the hips/hip mobility.


----------



## Ibanezsam4

Murmel said:


> So I've decided to give sumo deadlifts a shot. Being tall with short arms and long legs is making conventional deads difficult, and they've been hurting my lower back quite a lot lately.
> 
> Noticed right away that sumo's are much more dependant on leg strength.



cuz sumo's are much closer to a squat with your weight out front than a deadlift which is dependent on basically all your rear muscles. 

i have the same problem as you and recently figured out that if i elevate the bar slightly by placing plates or something under the weights than i can perform a successful text-book deadlift. 



But i have a question for you guys. has anyone here tried mixing their protein shakes with almond milk? and if so how did it taste?


----------



## Idontpersonally

I love almond milk plain, Ive heard about mixing it with protein, havent tried it but i dont see why it wouldnt be the most best tasting shake ever.


----------



## Ibanezsam4

Idontpersonally said:


> I love almond milk plain, Ive heard about mixing it with protein, havent tried it but i dont see why it wouldnt be the most best tasting shake ever.



thinking of doing it to try and get some extra calories and nutrients since im really sensitive to dairy


----------



## Murmel

Ibanezsam4 said:


> i have the same problem as you and recently figured out that if i elevate the bar slightly by placing plates or something under the weights than i can perform a successful text-book deadlift.



Might give this a shot tomorrow or tuesday, we'll see when I have time to hit the gym 

I've also added like 10kg to my bench in 2 weeks. Lolwut. I've finally found where I should be calorie wise to bulk, so that combined with better technique did it for me.


----------



## Ibanezsam4

Murmel said:


> I've also added like 10kg to my bench in 2 weeks. Lolwut. I've finally found where I should be calorie wise to bulk, so that combined with better technique did it for me.




still trying to find that magic number for me, awesome progress btw


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

Murmel said:


> Might give this a shot tomorrow or tuesday, we'll see when I have time to hit the gym
> 
> I've also added like 10kg to my bench in 2 weeks. Lolwut. I've finally found where I should be calorie wise to bulk, so that combined with better technique did it for me.



Frak yeah! 

also your deadlift problem sounds so alien to me, being barely 5'7 with arms that nearly go down to my knees and big quads and arse, I was born to deadlift


----------



## Murmel

Ugh, I think I need to take a break from deadlifts for a few weeks. My back feels worse after every session, I only did sumos today but I still feel like crap in my lower back.

For some reason squats are fine though.


----------



## gunshow86de

Murmel, I would suggest watching some of Elliot Hulse's videos on deadlifting. He is very knowledgeable and an effective teacher (at least for me). Maybe these will help correct any issues you may be having? 






Probably of particular interest to you, based on posts above.....


----------



## Murmel

Been trying to employ his stuff. It's however impossible while doing a conventional deadlift due to my long legs and short arms.
Right now my lower back is so shot I don't think I can make a fair assessment whether sumo's are going to work or not. I'm gonna give it a few weeks to heal up, then start off with sumo deads.

I have taped myself deadlifting, and my back *looks* just fine, I don't round it or anything, but feels far from it 

This won't discourage me from lifting though, I'm making good gains in all of my other lifts. Moved up to 25kg db's for shoulder presses today, felt great.
Something else I've been working on improving is my squat. Before I was going slightly above parallel, so now I've lowered the weight slightly and focused on getting deep instead.


----------



## UnderTheSign

Murmel said:


> Ugh, I think I need to take a break from deadlifts for a few weeks. My back feels worse after every session, I only did sumos today but I still feel like crap in my lower back.
> 
> For some reason squats are fine though.


If your lower back hurts after deads, you're not doing them right. Get someone to check your form or take vids and get someone to analyse it.


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

^this. Didn't take this advice and screwed up some ligaments in my lower back nearly 2 years ago. All better now and not serious, but it could have been a lot worse.

I think A2G squats may help in terms of hip mobility and glute utilisation. One of the most beneficial things I've ever got from my training


----------



## Murmel

As mentioned, I'm not gonna be deadlifting for a while now. Will do some form checking when I get back into it


----------



## Triple-J

Ibanezsam4 said:


> But i have a question for you guys. has anyone here tried mixing their protein shakes with almond milk? and if so how did it taste?



I've tried it with both almond milk and hazelnut milk and they're both great (especially over cereal!) almond/hazelnut milk is quite pricey here in the UK though so I've switched to lactose free milk which is awesome as it's got less carbs in it and a higher protein ratio too.


----------



## Murmel

Speaking of deadlifts, saw the most cringe-inducing thing I've ever seen at the gym today.
An athletic looking dude came in, looked like a typical hockey player. He loaded 140kg on the bar and commenced deadlifting without warming up. I've never seen anyone hunch over this bad in my life, he literally looked like he was gonna snap in half.

I asked him "doesn't your back hurt?" He just said "nah" and we chatted for a bit. He was cool, but I adviced him to lower the weight a little just for his own safety, I also told him about my situation with the deads.
He continued on doing drop sets with a little rest in between. It was first at around 110kg that his back started looking relatively good.

What must've been his dad then showed up, of course he's gonna be all manly and pull the same weight. He's gonna hurt so bad tomorrow..


----------



## Furtive Glance

God, why are the loudest people at my gym some of the weakest?! I think people that throw down clips, weights, bars and equipment while exhaling loud as _...._ are my least favourite gym-goers out of 'em all. 

Sweet 135lb squats, bro!


----------



## TRENCHLORD

One thing that ticks me off is seeing/hearing people drop the pro-style dumbells.
That's why they are always all loose and clanky. If you're going to be dropping them just use the hex bells or another of the solid types.


----------



## Murmel

Furtive Glance said:


> God, why are the loudest people at my gym some of the weakest?! I think people that throw down clips, weights, bars and equipment while exhaling loud as _...._ are my least favourite gym-goers out of 'em all.
> 
> Sweet 135lb squats, bro!



I agree that throwing equipment around can be a bit annoying. But you have to remember that a 135lbs squat might be equally challenging to some people as the 305lbs Squat (or whatever weight) is to you.

I mean, just because some dude is doing some serious breathing benching 220lbs doesn't mean I can't do the same benching 170lbs, just because I happen to be weaker than him.


----------



## Idontpersonally

Ibanezsam4 said:


> thinking of doing it to try and get some extra calories and nutrients since im really sensitive to dairy



yes whey












I like how you can add it to these kinds of protein recipies

4 ingredients



more ingredients


----------



## UnderTheSign

On the subject of bars... I made this on today. Replaced the 1 cup oats with 1 scoop (~30g) ground oats and 1 scoop chocolat whey. Added a spash of water to make it easier to stir and stuck it in the fridge for 3,5hrs. Pretty good taste and texture.


----------



## Ibanezsam4

Idontpersonally said:


> yes whey
> 
> *proceeds to post epic cooking ideas*



bought some almond milk and have been adding it to the shakes i make in the morning. tastes freaking fantastic. its helped me get a wee bit closer to what i think is my optimal caloric intake. i've been making some sweet gains and have started to get larger and more cut. i've been waiting _years_ to get to this point


----------



## SoItGoesRVA

It's odd, because I used to use supplements, but now I just eat after my workouts, and take a multivitamin. I've been doing this for about 2 years now, and have actually seen improved fitness because of it, so I'm not asking questions


----------



## gunshow86de

Not to beat a dead horse, but Elliot posted another really good deadlift video. Worth a watch.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

^^^ Get your dowel rod away from my ass!!!!


He knows what he's talking about, but IMO he totally overcomplicates. (or maybe he just takes a long time saying a little)
For some people it's probably needed to get that hyper-detailed, just depends on the person I guess.


----------



## Ibanezsam4

making all kindssss of gainsssss... 

all leg weights up, chest up, back up, shoulders.... well im working on it hahaha


----------



## Aevolve

Recuperating from my lung surgery a couple months ago, I jumped on 5/3/1 BBB and I'm seeing some decent strength gains.

Current stats:
5'9.5" 165lbs

Bench 1RM: ~230lbs
Squat 1RM: ~255lbs
Deadlift 1RM: ~360lbs
OHP 1RM: ~135lbs

Gonna keep at it and bring them up even more.


EDIT: Hit 135 on strict OHP today, could probably do more. Yay for progress.


----------



## Winspear

I'm just going to leave this here.
A 17-Year Old Russian Powerlifter With a Doll-like Face (11 pics) | Bored Panda


----------



## Idontpersonally




----------



## Chuck

^ 

I haven't lifted in 4 months and I'm real anxious to get back into but here are my high school ending stats:

5' 11.5"
150lbs

170lb bench
305lb squat
145lb snatch
215lb clean


----------



## Ibanezsam4

So i have crohn's disease, and because of the numerous setbacks caused by flare-ups and my uber fast metabolism, it has taken me years to finally put on muscle. 

but im having a problem, now that i've really upped my caloric intake, my crohns has been acting up. this pissed me off and disheartened me a little because my healthy habits have only increased lately yet my body still gets f**cked up.. 

until i realized that i had started increasing my whey protein shakes. im already sensitive to dairy, and until now i hadn't had a problem. but i think i hit the critical point (whether it be age or the amount of whey in my diet) where my body cannot process the whey as well. 

so i think im going to move on to pea protein, and just grab a few extra snacks here and there to fill out my calories. hopefully this step can reduce the inflammation in my system and i can get back to work. 

EDIT: has anyone seen this video. not dissing the guy cuz he obviously is good at what he does, but it seems like his rants are fueled by pump-blood, pre-workout, and maybe a little cocaine 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CRVjMQuOaM


----------



## Ironbird

Anyone here take creatine? I just ordered a jar of Creakong by Mutant and I want to see if my body accepts it. I've done the same with protein shakes and it helped me pinpoint what works and what doesn't (MuscleTech's Mass Tech works the best for me).

What should I look out for, apart from following the instructions?


----------



## Infamous Impact

Ironbird said:


> Anyone here take creatine? I just ordered a jar of Creakong by Mutant and I want to see if my body accepts it. I've done the same with protein shakes and it helped me pinpoint what works and what doesn't (MuscleTech's Mass Tech works the best for me).
> 
> What should I look out for, apart from following the instructions?


Creatine is such a simple and proven supplement. Just take a teaspoon a day and drink the gallon of water you should already be drinking daily.


----------



## soliloquy

hit the gym again after a 3 month gap. holy hell i've lost so much strength! need to build up asap! proper diet starts again!


----------



## Seanthesheep

well just wanted to check in to say that since july Im now down 20lbs. started at a little over 195, and this morning I checked and Im now at 175. When I was at my leanest I was around 155, so at this point If I can lean out to 165 and start bulking up while staying lean, Ill be pretty happy!

on top of doing weighs, Im starting to do more sports at my school and Im also getting into rock climbing too which has been tons of fun


----------



## Winspear

soliloquy said:


> hit the gym again after a 3 month gap. holy hell i've lost so much strength! need to build up asap! proper diet starts again!



Know the feel. I lost 2 stone whilst not training and not eating during graduation period. Don't worry, it comes back fast when you get it right. I was just getting back into the swing of things recently and then got super busy starting my own business. However I've been back seriously eating and training for 3 weeks now and have put ~15kg back on all the main exercises already.


----------



## Ibanezsam4

Weighed myself for the first time since starting school at the end of August. put on a little over 5lbs of weight, placing at about 172lbs (factoring for water weight). this is currently the heaviest i've ever been.


----------



## Ironbird

> Creatine is such a simple and proven supplement. Just take a teaspoon a day and drink the gallon of water you should already be drinking daily.


Aye, aye, capt'n!


----------



## Winspear

Switched from a 3 day to a 5 day split last month. Really enjoying it. Added a couple of exercises to each body part and I'm feeling the burn and gaining strength like never before 
My previous split was:
Chest+Bis
Quads+Calves+Shoulders
Back+Hams+Tris

Now I'm doing:
Chest
Quads+Calves
Shoulders
Arms
Back+Hams

Love it. Split looks perfect to me in terms of recovery times etc - the only thing being hitting biceps before they get a bit of use on back day but something like that is unavoidable. 

Working with a friend to hit 120kg for reps on squats by Christmas. We are currently at 90kg. My best was 110kg for 4 of 6 almost 2 years ago before I lost a few stone. Hit 130kg deadlift for 3 of 6 the other day which is a best for me. 

I'm keeping the food down and am going to increase it only when I've been stuck at the same weight+strength for a good while. Gaining nice and slow and staying lean this way (well, lean enough. I'm one of those people that can't really drop below 12-14% body fat without a LOT of effort.


----------



## asfeir

Ironbird said:


> Anyone here take creatine? I just ordered a jar of Creakong by Mutant and I want to see if my body accepts it. I've done the same with protein shakes and it helped me pinpoint what works and what doesn't (MuscleTech's Mass Tech works the best for me).
> 
> What should I look out for, apart from following the instructions?



I tried it once, It helped me crosse a plateau. I was stuck with 70kgs on the bench press and it took me to 90kgs. When I stopped taking it It dropped to something like 80-84 depending on form. I'm not sure thought if that's what happens to everyone.


----------



## BrainArt

Started going to the gym about two weeks ago (this week will be my 3rd full week) with my brother-in-law.

We've got a 3-day split:

Day 1: Legs and shoulders

Day 2: Chest, Tris and core

Day 3: Back and Bis

Each day we'll try to throw in some cardio as well.


It feels good, man.

My goal is to go from 222lbs to 190lbs and 14-15% body fat. Good weight for my height, width and bone structure.


----------



## Allealex

Hi guys, total noob here  
I'm looking for some advice about home-training, since right now I don't have the time to hit regulary a gym, so I have to train on my own with only a bench and two dumbbells.
So, I am 6.4 '' tall and weighing 154 lbs, so yeah I'm a really skinny guy even if I think I eat quite a lot.
Let me know guys, what excercises should I do and what/how much should I eat?


----------



## UnderTheSign

You might wanna read the stickies in this forum, that'll teach you how to eat. For someone your size, I'd just say eat a LOT. Nutritional intake is different for everyone.
As for a routine, if you're a total newbie I'd just keep it simple. Bench press, overhead press, rows, deadlifts, squats and lunges are all doable with DBs. Throw in some curls and tricep extensions if you feel like it. How many days would you dedicate to working out?


----------



## Winspear

Having amazing progress recently after losing almost all my progress. I've changed the way in which I progress my weights.

Usually I will do an exercise on a weight at which I can get 4 sets of 4-6 or 6-8 reps depending on the exercise. Seems perfect. When I get all sets for 6, I'd put it up. As long as I didn't get less than 4, I wouldn't put it down. Seems like a good plan. 

Decided to join a friend in a goal to reach 120kg squats by Christmas though, which meant adding 2.5kg every week. I'm finding that the pressure and motivation is causing me to increase the weight when I usually wouldn't, but I'm not dropping below my reps and form is staying solid. I've applied the same goals to other exercises. Basically I'm pushing harder than I knew possible before, and it's awesome


----------



## Allealex

UnderTheSign said:


> You might wanna read the stickies in this forum, that'll teach you how to eat. For someone your size, I'd just say eat a LOT. Nutritional intake is different for everyone.
> As for a routine, if you're a total newbie I'd just keep it simple. Bench press, overhead press, rows, deadlifts, squats and lunges are all doable with DBs. Throw in some curls and tricep extensions if you feel like it. How many days would you dedicate to working out?



Well I'm not a total newbie since I used to go to gym a year ago, so I know how to do some exercises.
Anyway, I'm planning to train 4 times a week


----------



## FollowTheSigns

Just found this thread, kind of depressing seeing gym related topics since I haven't been able to go for 2 months due to a shoulder injury! Almost recovered just need to keep doing some physical therapy, can't wait to go back it feels like YEARS have gone by!


----------



## Mike

Figured this might help some guys looking to add strength and mass. I myself have been into heavy lifting since about 2005 and have tried every legal supplement and eating regimen out there. Some things work, some things don't and everyone is different. I focus primarily on strength because honestly what are muscles for? 

This lifting ideology has greatly helped me increase my strength. 
From Russia With Strength And Power | Mahler's Aggressive Strength

Most will probably have to adjust the numbers to around what you already lift.

For me, the key to progress is to always push yourself harder than you did yesterday, never make excuses, and stay focused on where you want to be.


----------



## Winspear

The girl posted a little back just uploaded this


She can slap me around like that anytime.


----------



## UnderTheSign

Allealex said:


> Well I'm not a total newbie since I used to go to gym a year ago, so I know how to do some exercises.
> Anyway, I'm planning to train 4 times a week


In thas case, maybe follow a routine like 5/3/1 if you want to get stronger, or a 4-day split based on chest/biceps - shoulders/triceps - back - legs?


----------



## Ibanezsam4

posted because its necessary


----------



## Tiger

In a great place where I dont obsess over training these days.


----------



## Ibanezsam4

Hit my November squat goal of 300 pounds today! So pumped! i got the biggest shit eating grin on my face hahahaha


----------



## Aevolve

Finally broke 170lbs at 5'10, gaining steadily. Also finally hit 2 plate on bench.

It's an awesome feeling even though I know it's still babyweight.


----------



## infernalservice

I bought my first cage over the summer and mainly do high intensity dead lifts, squats, and benches. I like doing push ups and lots of body weight exercises too when I am away from home.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

infernalservice said:


> I bought my first cage over the summer and mainly do high intensity dead lifts, squats, and benches. I like doing push ups and lots of body weight exercises too when I am away from home.


 
Isn't it great to be able to lift all-out without a spotter or the worries of not having one. 
I actually miss going to the gym for some reasons (cables, machines, mirrors, friendly competition, ect..), but I sure as hell don't miss trying to do the main lifts at the gym and/or without a competent spotter .


----------



## gunshow86de

I've got my own power rack at my apartment. Don't miss going to the gym one bit. I can do my workout as quickly (or slowly) as I want. I can even curl in the squat rack!!! *gasp*


----------



## TRENCHLORD

gunshow86de said:


> I can even curl in the squat rack!!! *gasp*


 

We can and we do . 

The only thing sucking for me with my arrangement now is that I need to make room so that my rack can be slid out of the way for doing cleans on the rubber mats.
I could do cleans inside the rack, but I hate it like that. I must be cluster-phobic.


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

mracz said:


> Figured this might help some guys looking to add strength and mass. I myself have been into heavy lifting since about 2005 and have tried every legal supplement and eating regimen out there. Some things work, some things don't and everyone is different. I focus primarily on strength because honestly what are muscles for?
> 
> This lifting ideology has greatly helped me increase my strength.
> From Russia With Strength And Power | Mahler's Aggressive Strength
> 
> Most will probably have to adjust the numbers to around what you already lift.
> 
> For me, the key to progress is to always push yourself harder than you did yesterday, never make excuses, and stay focused on where you want to be.




Holy volume Batman!

How long do training sessions usually take you?


----------



## Winspear

After quite a while of sustained abuse now with regards to my post #1528, legs (and back) are going great. I don't even ache any more. Not like I haven't trained legs consistently before but stretching afterwards was always a necessity and I would still find it quite tough for the next few days.
Had my best ever leg session the other day and can't feel a thing!

The secret to less ache: Train harder!


----------



## gunshow86de

Captain Shoggoth said:


> Holy volume Batman!
> 
> How long do training sessions usually take you?



I did the Monday and Wednesday workouts from the Routine #1, they took over 2 hours each.  But holy hell are they good workouts. Doing the Friday one today, purely for posterity's sake. 

I'm coming up with a new plan loosely based on those principles, but trimmed down a bit. Same volume on the "big 2" lifts in each workout, but less/quicker assistance work (mostly using my heavy kettlebells plus pullups and dips for a circuit or Tabata training type of "closer").

And because I like to give stupid names to all my spreadsheets with new training plans, this one will official be; Winter Training 2013: The Summer of George.


----------



## gunshow86de

EtherealEntity said:


> The secret to less ache: Train harder!





The only real way to "flush" the lactic acid is through movement.


----------



## hk_golgatha

gunshow86de said:


> The only real way to "flush" the lactic acid is through movement.



And strong efficient breathing. Biologically speaking, the body will use the lactic acid when oxygen is in supply to your body in aerobic respiration.

Man I love science.


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

gunshow86de said:


> I did the Monday and Wednesday workouts from the Routine #1, they took over 2 hours each.  But holy hell are they good workouts. Doing the Friday one today, purely for posterity's sake.
> 
> I'm coming up with a new plan loosely based on those principles, but trimmed down a bit. Same volume on the "big 2" lifts in each workout, but less/quicker assistance work (mostly using my heavy kettlebells plus pullups and dips for a circuit or Tabata training type of "closer").
> 
> And because I like to give stupid names to all my spreadsheets with new training plans, this one will official be; Winter Training 2013: The Summer of George.



I tried the Friday one two days ago and I managed it in about 45-50 minutes, so I'm thinking I'll give this a test run


----------



## Anton

I've been working out for quite some time now...this past year i've been training a bit less as most of my time went towards music and Muay Thai for sports..

If anybody needs advice about nutrition or working out, feel free to ask...
Remember that you're in the gym to train your body not your ego, always preform exercises in the right from with weight you can handle. 
Right now I don't train as heavy since I'm not really looking to get way bigger..I'm 6'/6'1 weight is about 200~ with 8-10% BF. Squatting(Hack squatting most of the time) 450~ for 10 reps, Bench is 280-300 for 6-10, Deadlift is about 450~ depending on the day since I got a minor shoulder injury from boxing. 

Gonna put more emphasis on nutrition soon and maybe get a bit more serious in the gym!


----------



## DoomJazz

I lift like a fiend but I don't eat balanced, like 80% of my nutrition comes from complex carbohydrates... Gotta start eating more veggies and figuring out how to put more protein in my diet. 

Definitely put as much emphasis on your diet as you do the gym, boys.


----------



## Ibanezsam4

While we're on the topic of nutrition i recently cut all milk proteins out of my diet, including the almighty Whey. i was having digestive problems on it, and since i have crohns disease, if my diet is screw; i'm screwed. 

so maybe a full month and change into the new diet plan i have shed all my bloat, and i feel fantastic. the only problem is now that i cant do dairy,. vegetarian protein is my only options, and that shit gets pricey. 

right now im on a rice protein, and previously i used a pea protein. switched away from the pea because it was unflavored and tasted nasty, but NowFoods has released a vanilla toffee flavored variant that i can get for a good price online and i cant wait to try it. plus with that stuff i technically am eating veggies


----------



## Aevolve

Deload weeks SUCK.


All I wanted to say.


----------



## SoItGoesRVA

After this week, I broke a few personal records. I'm a little bit better than I was pre-hernia surgery (September). I've been trying desperately to condition myself in preparation for re-entering MMA training in December. I'm 5'8"; 166 pounds and soon to be 21 years old. Also, no supplements: the worst thing I do is drink black coffee in the mornings. Also also: I do not use wraps or chalk; I feel like going completely raw does wonders for my grip strength.

Bench press: 315
Overhead press: 225
Clean: 240
And 2 personal records:
Squat: 435 
DL: 450


----------



## Winspear

SoItGoesRVA said:


> After this week, I broke a few personal records. I'm a little bit better than I was pre-hernia surgery (September). I've been trying desperately to condition myself in preparation for re-entering MMA training in December. I'm 5'8"; 166 pounds and soon to be 21 years old. Also, no supplements: the worst thing I do is drink black coffee in the mornings. Also also: I do not use wraps or chalk; I feel like going completely raw does wonders for my grip strength.
> 
> Bench press: 315
> Overhead press: 225
> Clean: 240
> And 2 personal records:
> Squat: 435
> DL: 450



Good stuff! 
I had a great week too. 
Working towards my 120kg squats Christmas goal (from about 90kg late September). Yesterday was scheduled a session for 107.5kg squats (going up 2.5kg a week to make it dead on Christmas). Got 3 sets of 6 there and then tried 120kg for the last set, getting 3 reps. 
I think I'll continue doing 120kg for the last set now to get comfortable with it. I'm confident I can hit 4x6 120kg before 2013 is up 
Managed 6,6,6,10 on 205kg leg press too, and deadlifts are up to 135kg for 4 sets of 5.


----------



## SoItGoesRVA

Well If you're trying to build strength, sets of 6 are good. My football coach in high school used to emphasize that "If you can do it more than 8 times, it's too light to build real strength."


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

Have switched to the Russian-style routine mracz posted on the previous page.

2/3 sessions a week last 75 minutes and my chest is always sore-enjoying all the squatting though, reminds me of when I used to squat 3 times a week (Monday overhead squat, Wednesday front squat, Friday back squat)-don't miss overhead squats at all though


----------



## Anton

Did some heavy legs two days ago, warmed up with some leg press, then went on some heavy leg press sets apx 600lbs for 10 reps...did 2-3 sets of those. Then did some hamstring curls to warm up those as well, did the whole stack for 5-6 sets. Then my nightmare, reversed hack squat, did 2 warm ups and went to apx 300lbs for 12 reps for 3 sets. Finished up with some leg curls..again just the whole stack. 
Barely walking right now...got arms today.


----------



## soliloquy

there is a HHHUUUUUUGGGGEEE sale on bodybuilding.com right now. most things are 20% off. their cart is down right now. prolly too over crowded. give em a call and place that order. 

i just placed an order for $450 or so. they sped up their shipping! last time i ordered was back in april and it took 5-7 business days. now its down to 2-4 business days! woot!


----------



## gunshow86de

Posted it in the "Goals" thread already, but might as well post it here too.

I finally got my bench back over 300, my squat and pull over 400. 

Just starting to approach numbers I used to put up in meets way back in high school (at 16). I'm 27 now, but after almost 6 years of not lifting I'm finally starting to feel like myself again.


----------



## soliloquy

:-/ bodybuilding sent my order to the wrong address...what the ....?!


----------



## SoItGoesRVA

Leg day was ungodly today. Worked up to 285 on front squats, 405 for 5 on back squats, and 415 for 5 on dead lifts. Counting all the exercises I did today, I logged 34 sets. I then ordered a chicken and veggie pizza, and ate it. Ate the whole goddamned thing. Because I earned it.


----------



## Bevo

Guys a request for some assistance please.

I have spent time in the gym and have made decent gains when I was after a strength or size goal so know the basics.
Now I am primarily a bicycle racer where low body weight and higher power means speed.

This is where you come in!

I am looking for a good dumbbell body weight routine that covers the full body and completely services the legs. Upper body is pretty straight forward and core is a given but legs I am not sure.
Do squats and lunges along with dead lifts do a good enough job?

Thanks


----------



## Bevo

Double post, hate when it does that!


----------



## Anton

Bevo said:


> Guys a request for some assistance please.
> 
> I have spent time in the gym and have made decent gains when I was after a strength or size goal so know the basics.
> Now I am primarily a bicycle racer where low body weight and higher power means speed.
> 
> This is where you come in!
> 
> I am looking for a good dumbbell body weight routine that covers the full body and completely services the legs. Upper body is pretty straight forward and core is a given but legs I am not sure.
> Do squats and lunges along with dead lifts do a good enough job?
> 
> Thanks



Add some explosiveness to your workout as well, especially if you're training to other sports. Some squats, deadlifts, good-morning, there are also a verity of weird angled exercises for legs that are killer just with body weight. 
You can also combine full body exercises.


----------



## axxessdenied

Looking to change up my routine a bit. What exercises do you guys find help build a lot of muscle. I'm interested in more full body workout routines.

Looking to add squats, deadlifts and dips to my routine. What are some other good ones? Looking at incorporating some kettlebell exercises as well.


----------



## UnderTheSign

axxessdenied said:


> Looking to change up my routine a bit. What exercises do you guys find help build a lot of muscle. I'm interested in more full body workout routines.
> 
> Looking to add squats, deadlifts and dips to my routine. What are some other good ones? Looking at incorporating some kettlebell exercises as well.


Squats, deads, bench, overhead press, dips, rows, pullups.


----------



## Triple-J

Bevo said:


> Guys a request for some assistance please.
> 
> I have spent time in the gym and have made decent gains when I was after a strength or size goal so know the basics.
> Now I am primarily a bicycle racer where low body weight and higher power means speed.
> 
> This is where you come in!
> 
> I am looking for a good dumbbell body weight routine that covers the full body and completely services the legs. Upper body is pretty straight forward and core is a given but legs I am not sure.
> Do squats and lunges along with dead lifts do a good enough job?
> 
> Thanks



When it comes to squats & deadlifts I'd suggest trying all the variations of the movement and taking notes as you go along to figure out what worked best for you then using it in your program. 
This may sound like a long process but it's worth it and I've just learnt this myself cause for a long time I've performed standard back squats and had little results but recently I've switched to front & zercher squats and they hit my quads much better even with lightweight.


----------



## UnderTheSign

Triple-J said:


> When it comes to squats & deadlifts I'd suggest trying all the variations of the movement and taking notes as you go along to figure out what worked best for you then using it in your program.
> This may sound like a long process but it's worth it and I've just learnt this myself cause for a long time I've performed standard back squats and had little results but recently I've switched to front & zercher squats and they hit my quads much better even with lightweight.


Back squats are more of an overall leg developement thing than just quads. Front squats/hack squats/etc put more focus on the quads.


----------



## Bevo

Thanks for the ideas guys, I will try to get more in the workouts.

One thing I decided to do is get back with the cycle coach for Jan 1, I'm sure he will get me ahhhh busy LOL!


----------



## BrainArt

Haven't been to the gym in two weeks (caught a stomach bug that would have caused me to vomit all over the equipment had I gone and then my brother-in-law's car got blown out tire and some axle damage, so that has to be fixed), and it is driving me stir crazy. There is only so much I can do at home with what I have.

Thought about benching my little sister for a while there.


----------



## Anton

Did shoulders the other day, started off with Seated Military press, did two warm up sets and then 3 sets of 220 for 6-8 reps. Then did some seated side laterals again 2 warm up sets, then 3 sets of 40-5 dumbbells for 8-10 reps, finished of with some reversed flys for the rear delts, did it in a machine, used 100-120 pounds for 5 sets&#8230;6-10 reps. 

Then did some calves and abs..nothing special.


----------



## gunshow86de

Favorite part:
"Are you strong? No? Go directly to Crossfit." 




Aevolve said:


> Deload weeks SUCK.
> 
> 
> All I wanted to say.



How I feel during deload week.


----------



## Murmel

Went back to the gym this morning because I've been a lazy ass for 2 months and skipping everything.

Couldn't finish the entire workout because I was about to throw up. Now we're on the right track again 
Tomorrow; chest day.


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

Had panic attacks last night (slept 4am-7am) and probably going to be up all night tonight working (it's 1am and I'm not even close to a quarter of the way through).

Have had to put off training for over a week now, have to train tomorrow. Not looking forward to it at all.


----------



## soliloquy

today was a bad day at the gym for me. i did a regular 5 minute warm up, kept staring at the bar for a while before i set it up for deadlifts. 2 sets and i'm done. normally on leg day, i'm doing about 45 sets of various exercises....not today. lacked energy. and today i actually had a small meal before hitting the gym. normally i have it on an empty stomach.


----------



## MikeH

Starting a new diet to put on mass. I stopped going to the gym for a while because I was going through some depression and stress (which was a horrible idea, considering exercise cures those things), but now I'm starting back and I want to add some pounds. I crunched some numbers and figured out a general amount of nutrients I need to start adding the weight:

Protein - 110g/556cal
Fat - 46g/418cal
Carbs - 450g/1810cal

I'm not an expert in this stuff, so does that sound like an adequate amount for a guy who weighs roughly 140# looking to get up to around 155-160?


----------



## UnderTheSign

I'd lower the carbs and add some protein and fat. Is there any reason in particular your carbs are so high?


----------



## MikeH

I just used an online calculator for my body weight and goal weight. I did download a calorie tracker on my iPhone that suggests 3,345 a day, and I'm down to 1,900 to go.


----------



## Murmel

How tall are you?

I'm no expert, but from the little experimenting I've done, my gains skyrocket when I have ridiculous amounts of protein. So I would definitly slow down on the carbs and add more protein instead.

Again, I'm not an expert, just my experience.

Also take your lifestyle into consideration. If you travel by bike a lot you'll have to up your calories compared to if you live on the couch apart from going to the gym (like me )


----------



## UnderTheSign

Not sure why it says 500+ kcals for protein though, as far as I know protein gives 4kcal/gram. I'd shoot for ~1g protein/lb bodyweight so roughly 140g. 0.4-0.5g fat/lb also seems to be the minimum recommendation, that'd come down to at least 70g.

A lot of people consider getting in sufficient protein to be the most important. From there on, it's a matter of personal preference. Some prefer high fat, some prefer high carb. Be sensible and try to balance it. Fats especially (peanut butter, olive oil) are easy kcals and when you're trying to gain weight IMO you can't go wrong with a couple extra PB sandwiches...


----------



## MikeH

Yeah, a peanut butter and honey sandwich on wheat put me up an extra 330cal.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

MikeH said:


> Yeah, a peanut butter and honey sandwich on wheat put me up an extra 330cal.


 
Those are delicious . Especially when mommy makes them for me .
I used to practically live on those when I was kid. + a tall glass of lowfat milk of course.


----------



## UnderTheSign

TRENCHLORD said:


> Those are delicious . Especially when mommy makes them for me .
> I used to practically live on those when I was kid. + a tall glass of lowfat milk of course.


Full wat milk all the way


----------



## Ibanezsam4

i just stopped by to share my new diet discovery.... mexican foods (sans the dairy) is like the ultimate macro meal. take a burrito with brown rice and chicken and spread some guacamole all over that bitch... fats, carbs, proteins... everything you want for a bro-post-workout-meal


----------



## gunshow86de

Ibanezsam4 said:


> i just stopped by to share my new *diet* discovery.... *mexican food*s



I think I speak for all mesomorphs when I say................


----------



## MikeH

Went last night and worked out for about an hour. 45 minutes of biceps/shoulders, 15 minutes of cardio. Going tonight to do triceps and chest work, and maybe a little bit of light cardio again. Been eating roughly 3,000 cal a day, sometimes 3.5k. Hoping I can keep myself motivated enough to bulk up at least 10-15 pounds.


----------



## dudeskin

Hi all. I'm just getting back into the swing of things. I'll be starting back at my local boot camp thing. I'll be going 2 or 3 times a week. I managed to get into the fast group and it's intense. 
I'll be doing stuff at home too to help build some muscle with weights I have. 
I've got use of a bench and some free weights. 
I cycle every day to work and back. And sometimes at the weekend. I'm more of a fast intense lung burning cyclist rather than a gentle bike ride haha. 

I don't have any mates that are interested in fitness really so I'm doing it all on my own. But I don't know a lot of what to do or eat. 

I'm medium build. I have muscle and I've reasonable strength as far as work goes. Haha. 
I think I'm 5 8 and around 63kg. 
I basically want to get fit and strong. Defined also. 
I'm really inspired by frank medrano so that's the direction I want to go in rather than bulking up so much. 

Can anyone help me with rough things I need to do to level up. 

I can do a fair amount of push ups when I want to. I've been doing 100 or so when I get in from work whilst I'm still warmed up from the bike. 

I don't know what I have to do diet wise and I find it a little confusing when I see people talking as if it's normal to them haha. 

Any help with rough food and workout ideas would be great. Cheers. 
Joe


----------



## UCBmetal

Ibanezsam4 said:


> i just stopped by to share my new diet discovery.... mexican foods (sans the dairy) is like the ultimate macro meal. take a burrito with brown rice and chicken and spread some guacamole all over that bitch... fats, carbs, proteins... everything you want for a bro-post-workout-meal



Do a bowl to lose the tortilla and you're in real good shape with that one. Added bonus is fantastic gas at the gym, so you get whatever piece of equipment you want.


----------



## UnderTheSign

dudeskin said:


> Hi all. I'm just getting back into the swing of things. I'll be starting back at my local boot camp thing. I'll be going 2 or 3 times a week. I managed to get into the fast group and it's intense.
> I'll be doing stuff at home too to help build some muscle with weights I have.
> I've got use of a bench and some free weights.
> I cycle every day to work and back. And sometimes at the weekend. I'm more of a fast intense lung burning cyclist rather than a gentle bike ride haha.
> 
> I don't have any mates that are interested in fitness really so I'm doing it all on my own. But I don't know a lot of what to do or eat.
> 
> I'm medium build. I have muscle and I've reasonable strength as far as work goes. Haha.
> I think I'm 5 8 and around 63kg.
> I basically want to get fit and strong. Defined also.
> I'm really inspired by frank medrano so that's the direction I want to go in rather than bulking up so much.
> 
> Can anyone help me with rough things I need to do to level up.
> 
> I can do a fair amount of push ups when I want to. I've been doing 100 or so when I get in from work whilst I'm still warmed up from the bike.
> 
> I don't know what I have to do diet wise and I find it a little confusing when I see people talking as if it's normal to them haha.
> 
> Any help with rough food and workout ideas would be great. Cheers.
> Joe


You think Frank Medrano never bulked up? It's not like you'll start on a split and be Dorian Yates big in 2 years, no worries. Hell, in 2 years you won't be Medrano big either, far from it probably. 
Read the stickies in this forum. Do some research. I agree it's a lotta information to soak up so take your time.


----------



## dudeskin

Captain state the obvious didn't really answer any of my questions. Anyone else help directly? All I've done is read and read but soooooo many rabbit holes.


----------



## UnderTheSign

dudeskin said:


> Captain state the obvious didn't really answer any of my questions. Anyone else help directly? All I've done is read and read but soooooo many rabbit holes.


The basics are pretty simple. Calculate your caloric intake (use the sticky thread), build your diet from there. There are examples of carb, protein and fat sources in said thread. Eggs, chicken, steak, cottage cheese, rice, oats, potatoes, fish, nuts, olive oil & coconut oil are all widely availble foods you could use. Don't be afraid to get creative, chicken, rice & broccoli gets boring after a while. Been there, done that...
Watch these two vids for some shopping ideas.



If you want to be serious about fitness (ie grow towards that Medrano physique), you ain't going to get there with us holding your hands. Find out what you need and find out what works for you. Trial and error are part of the game.


----------



## thebunfather

Well, I decided to get my endomorphic self back into the gym after a year and a half of half-assing it. Time to get the diet back in order and hit the weights! My first goal is fat-loss along with building muscle. I'm planning a 4 day split routine with 30 min cardio every day that I lift as well as on my mid-week off day. Any tips?


----------



## Ibanezsam4

gunshow86de said:


> I think I speak for all mesomorphs when I say................



i should've specified and said its good for us ectomorphs ahahaha 



MikeH said:


> Went last night and worked out for about an hour. 45 minutes of biceps/shoulders, 15 minutes of cardio. Going tonight to do triceps and chest work, and maybe a little bit of light cardio again. Been eating roughly 3,000 cal a day, sometimes 3.5k. Hoping I can keep myself motivated enough to bulk up at least 10-15 pounds.



eliminate the cardio unless you're just walking or something. if you want to incorporate cardio into your routine do the bulk first and then go for leaning exercises. if you want your heart pumping do super sets with no rest.


----------



## UnderTheSign

Ibanezsam4 said:


> eliminate the cardio unless you're just walking or something. if you want to incorporate cardio into your routine do the bulk first and then go for leaning exercises. if you want your heart pumping do super sets with no rest.


Eh, some cardio is a good idea even if you're bulking. Nothing wrong with keeping your condition up.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

Just an excuse to bump an irrefutably important thread 


Old man winter sure does suck this year (around here). It's by far my favorite season most years, but this is ridiculous.

My weight room is just an offshoot of my unheated garage, which is normally great because I can run my space heater for however long it takes to get the temp around 55-60 and I'm in heaven (well, dirty weight room heaven that is).

Last night I ran it on high for almost three hours and it still was only about 40 degrees in there, and the bars were literally still ice cold .
I bundled up and made the most of it but that gets very expensive doing it every time.
When it's around the freezing mark outside it only takes an hour or so on high to make it perfect for lifting, but that would be a heat wave lately .

I've stayed at just below 220 for awhile now which is a big improvement over the 250 I was at when this thread first started, nevertheless I had hoped to keep improving my body mass/fat ratio throughout the winter but it's really gotten the better of me in that regard.
I really could bring the dumbells inside and concentrate on some smaller isolation stuff, but then I'd have nothing to panzy-bitch about right .

Oh well, here's to a quick spring . On a side note; Barrow Alaska (that's the north freaking slope) has been consistently warmer this winter than central Illinois.


----------



## SoItGoesRVA

My new leg day routine that I created:

Front Squat 4x10
Back Squat 4x10 super-set with 36" box jumps to failure for every set
Dead Lift 4x10 super-set with calf raises 4x20
Straight leg dead lift 4x10 super-set with good mornings 4x10
One legged leg press 4x15 each leg alternating
Dumbbell lunges 3x20
Leg Extensions 3x15 super-set with Leg Curls 3x15

The next day is pure torture.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

SoItGoesRVA said:


> My new leg day routine that I created:
> 
> Front Squat 4x10
> Back Squat 4x10 super-set with 36" box jumps to failure for every set
> Dead Lift 4x10 super-set with calf raises 4x20
> Straight leg dead lift 4x10 super-set with good mornings 4x10
> One legged leg press 4x15 each leg alternating
> Dumbbell lunges 3x20
> Leg Extensions 3x15 super-set with Leg Curls 3x15
> 
> The next day is pure torture.


 

Oh to be young again.
Are those box jumps with the weight still on your back? 

Got vertical leap?
Mine USED TO BE 37-38" at about 195 pounds.
I'm 5'8" and used to get the veins of my wrist on a regulation rim jumping off two feet only. (not even close off one leg running)
Never could dunk anything other than a mini-ball though. Way too small hands to hang on to a real ball and not enough hops to two-hand jam.
They used to joke that I was a white Spud Web, but that's an insult to the great Spud Web.


----------



## UnderTheSign

SoItGoesRVA said:


> My new leg day routine that I created:
> 
> Front Squat 4x10
> Back Squat 4x10 super-set with 36" box jumps to failure for every set
> Dead Lift 4x10 super-set with calf raises 4x20
> Straight leg dead lift 4x10 super-set with good mornings 4x10
> One legged leg press 4x15 each leg alternating
> Dumbbell lunges 3x20
> Leg Extensions 3x15 super-set with Leg Curls 3x15
> 
> The next day is pure torture.


I'd change the order a bit, right now you're doing a quad dominant movie then squats/deads then hams them quads again. 
Squats
Deads
Leg press
Front squat
Lunges
Extensions
SLDL

Also wouldn't do front squats, back squats, deads and SLDLs _all_ on the same day but that might just be me, I like to keep things split up a bit so I can get them all with the same intensity. Would just throw in regular deads with back day.


----------



## gunshow86de

It's deload week for me.


----------



## The Analyst

UnderTheSign said:


> I'd change the order a bit, right now you're doing a quad dominant movie then squats/deads then hams them quads again.
> Squats
> Deads
> Leg press
> Front squat
> Lunges
> Extensions
> SLDL
> 
> Also wouldn't do front squats, back squats, deads and SLDLs _all_ on the same day but that might just be me, I like to keep things split up a bit so I can get them all with the same intensity. Would just throw in regular deads with back day.



Yeah, I can't even imagine trying to do all of that on the same day. 
SoItGoesRVA your routine is just crazy!  No offense, man. 

That routine is not optimal for progressive overload. Far too many exercises in one day if your lifting heavy.


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

Trench you're 5'8? 

phukking hell man remembering your pictures you just made me feel a hell of a whole lot better about my future prospects (5'7 here)


----------



## gunshow86de

Tax Return Day = Finally replacing my shitty made in China bar 

Ordered a Buddy Capps Texas Power Bar (the real deal, not one of the imitations). Ironically, I had to order from a store in New York.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

gunshow86de said:


> Tax Return Day = Finally replacing my shitty made in China bar
> 
> Ordered a Buddy Capps Texas Power Bar (the real deal, not one of the imitations). Ironically, I had to order from a store in New York.


 
Been wanting one myself for awhile now but it keeps getting out muscled by guitar stuff .
Didn't really know about the fakes though.
Was going to order from westside barbell when it makes it to the top of my list some day. 
Does anyone know if westside's TPB is the real deal?
I think it was like $300 or close to that.


----------



## gunshow86de

TRENCHLORD said:


> Been wanting one myself for awhile now but it keeps getting out muscled by guitar stuff .
> Didn't really know about the fakes though.
> Was going to order from westside barbell when it makes it to the top of my list some day.
> Does anyone know if westside's TPB is the real deal?
> I think it was like $300 or close to that.



Well, there are some cheap fakes and there are some good TPB style bars. Buddy actually sold/licensed the design to Troy (I think a couple of other builders too). There is also a rumor that EFS just buys them from Buddy, puts their own logo on it, and marks it up $100 (and charges their ridiculous shipping fees).

I got mine from Lifestyle Sports. It's actually made by Buddy at his welding shop in Irving, Texas. $300 shipping included is probably the best deal you're going to find for an in stock bar. I found it for $275 at another site, but they only order one at a time from Buddy. It takes ~6 weeks to get it. 

I've heard good things about the Westside bar that is sold through Rogue, but I've never used one myself.

EDIT: Just checked Westside's website, it looks like Buddy makes their bars too.

http://www.westside-barbell.com/ind...oon/specialty-bars/product/83-texas-power-bar


To anyone else, please don't confuse Capps with Cap (those are the shitty barbells that are sold at most national chain sporting goods stores).


----------



## MikeH

Just had a pre-workout smoothie consisting of blueberries, strawberries, banana, honey, oats, orange juice, and vanilla yogurt. It was god damn delicious. Now it's time to go destroy my biceps and shoulders.


----------



## gunshow86de

For anyone interested in powerlifting, Andrey Malanichev just set the raw (no mulit-ply squat suit) squat record. 460kg/1,014 lbs!!! That is insane!! It went up pretty easy, he might have another 5-10 lbs in him (at least). Oh and he walked it out, no monolift. Just insane. If I even tried to lift that off the pegs I'd probably die.


----------



## UnderTheSign

I was waiting for that to happen. His previous attempt got red lighted I believe so it's awesome to see he did it this time. Also broke the world record a couple of weeks ago I think... 2.4k raw total...


----------



## SoItGoesRVA

Yeah sorry, haven't checked this thread in a while. 

And talk shit all you want, that leg routine has been doing wonders for my speed and explosiveness


----------



## Watty

This is completely random, but since there's 65 pages of people talking about lifting, I figure nothing ventured, nothing gained.

I took a few rounds of "strength and conditioning" in high school and ended up injuring my back doing the dead lift. I believe it was probably about 4 months into lifting, having come from not ever really working out in my life. I'm a fairly stocky guy, so "maxing" on dead lift was fairly easy given my body structure. Anyways, I worked my way up through the mid 300's to trying for 400 at the end of the term. First time I tried it, I was about 2" away from being able to lock it in and dropped it. Second time (probably didn't wait long enough among other things), I got it about an inch or two off the ground and felt something pop in my back. Felt weaker than shit, my vision fuzzed over to static and all I could hear was a high pitched whining sound for about 15 seconds afterward. The instructor said it was my body releasing excess pressure and that it was completely normal in this situation. 

So, for probably 5 months afterward, my back was kind of sore and started to ache if I was on my feet for long periods of time and the latter still kind of affects me (it's now been like 7-8 years since). I had it checked out at the doctor and he didn't see any cause for worry, but I'm still wondering what was the most likely "thing" I pulled and now that I'm going to try to get back into working out I figured it was a good idea to casually check into whether or not I should stay away from these kinds of stresses in the future. (i.e. stick to mid-heavy weights instead of consistently pushing to the end of the spectrum)

Any thoughts?


----------



## TRENCHLORD

Train the lower part of your abs very hard twice a week. Once on the same day as deadlift/squats, and once again 3days later (give or take a day).
Obviously you'll want to train the entire abdominal region, but for me anyways it's been very important to zero in on the lower abs to prevent the lower back from always knotting up the day after heavy full-body lifts.

Leg raises from as many angles as possible works well. Hanging from the pull-up bar, laying flat, laying backwards (with your head at the high end) on a decline crunch board really does the trick.


----------



## gunshow86de

I'm not sure about the "pop" in your back. But, as long as you've been cleared by a doctor (hopefully an orthopedist/sports medicine type doctor and not a GP), you should be good to go. I've had ear "blowouts" a couple of times while lifting too. The pressure from drawing in air and creating tension can be similar to your ears popping on a plane. It doesn't happen often. I've been lifting for ~8 years, and it's only happened maybe 4-5 times.

In my experience, pain/discomfort is usually due to muscle imbalance. You might just not have much muscle in your lower-back/core/posterior chain yet. In addition to core/ab work, I've found "good mornings" to be helpful in strengthening the muscles for deadlift. My big imbalance was/is my shoulders. When I got back in to lifting about a year ago, I was having a ton of pain in my shoulders. I started doing a lot of "mobility work," but with little effect. I trained a ton of bench press, but almost never did any overhead press (over 300 on bench but I could barely OHP 135). Since I started specifically training on OHP, my shoulders feel much better (and look better too ).


----------



## Triple-J

If you're worried about lower back pain have a read through this.
T NATION | Yoga, Yes Yoga, For Big Bastards

Around four years ago I was going through a barbell complex and felt a pop in my lower back which put me out of action for around three weeks but when I returned to training I booked a phsyio appointment just to be sure and it turns out my back wasn't the problem it was my hamstrings and this apparently is the case for most people who end up with lower back pain/injuries. 
Since then I've always warmed up with a combination of some of the moves in the article and hamstring curls whenever it's deadlift or squat day and I've had no problems or pain since then.


----------



## Phrygian

gunshow86de said:


> For anyone interested in powerlifting, Andrey Malanichev just set the raw (no mulit-ply squat suit) squat record. 460kg/1,014 lbs!!! That is insane!! It went up pretty easy, he might have another 5-10 lbs in him (at least). Oh and he walked it out, no monolift. Just insane. If I even tried to lift that off the pegs I'd probably die.




Is that raw? I thought those kneebands(correct term?) where equipment. Here in Norway we count raw as belt only. 

Still impressive though!


----------



## gunshow86de

Phrygian said:


> Is that raw? I thought those kneebands(correct term?) where equipment. Here in Norway we count raw as belt only.
> 
> Still impressive though!



It differs from federation to federation, but generally knee/wrist wraps and belt are still considered raw. Basically, as long as you aren't in a multi-ply suit or bench shirt, you're "raw." I've noticed a lot of "raw" records are now specified with or without wraps.

When I was searching for results from RUM7, I noticed they had a meet 2 weekends ago that they called "Iron Man" division. No wraps and no belt. Obviously the weights weren't nearly as high, but still seems like you should at least have a belt when going for PR's.


----------



## MikeH

Trying this out tonight.


----------



## gunshow86de

^

Is that the dude from Bleeding Through?


----------



## MikeH

Yep! Brandan Schiepatti. He owns Rise Above Fitness. Also, I bought some Jack3d pre-workout so I could slam through that workout. It worked for sure, and I definitely noticed more reps. But I also know I will hate myself in the morning.


----------



## gunshow86de

Thought I would share this with you guys. I'm going to be making my first order from them pretty soon. You can buy "pure" whey protein (ie no fillers or "proprietary blends" full of dextrose). I'm also curious to try their pre-workout. Their prices are really good. I'm guessing since it's sort of "factory direct," so no middleman to pay. I've never seen them advertised online or in magazines, so I'm guessing you save cost since they don't have an advertising budget to cover either. 

True Nutrition - The Highest Quality Supplements and Protein at the Lowest Prices

You can also buy your own "building block" nutrients and make your own supplements. OmarIsuf made a cool video describing the preworkout he makes himself (also how I found out about this company).



Anybody have experience with True Nutrition?


----------



## TRENCHLORD

The True Nutrition stuff is at good prices. $10/pound for the whey isolate is cheap.
The Natures Best Isopure I was getting from BB.com came out to about $12/pound.

I like that you can order with various blends, but I'm surprised there wasn't an option for added L-Glutamine and other free-form aminos.
Whey isolate is very high in most aminos but is very low in glutamine and a couple other important aminos which is why Isopure and other pure whey isolates always add an L-Glutamine blend.
I couldn't even find the amino profiles for their various base products unless I'm just missing it.

edit; I found it now. Doesn't show free-form L-Glutamine. I don't think glutamic acid is quite the same.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

MikeH said:


> Trying this out tonight.


 
That's a great way to do it with the drop-set as the final set.
If you're someone who gets sore very easily in the chest then you could probably just do a couple movements with the drops. It's easy to overdo when doing drops on each movement.
Either way though it sure would not be gross overtraining to do all.


----------



## gunshow86de

Excellent deadlifting tutorial from Richard Hawthorne. It's comprehensive while still being fairly succinct. For those that haven't heard of Richard, he might be the best "pound for pound" deadlifter on the planet. A +600 lbs deadlift at only 131 lbs bodyweight!


----------



## UnderTheSign

I see you're in on the ANIMAL athelete vids, haha. Nice.


----------



## gunshow86de

Aww yeah son, check that new avatar. 

This bar is so much better. Worth every penny. I'll try and post up some comparison photos later. For now, IT'S BENCH DAY BROS!!!!!!!!


----------



## MikeH

The last 3 days I have pushed myself to muscle failure on every workout I've done, and it feels so great. I'm sore as shit, but it's a good feeling, and I wake up stiff, but feeling overall better. Plus I can see the beginning stages of Swolitis.


----------



## User Name

just maxed out at the gym this thursday 350 on squat, 220 on cleans, and 210 on bench. such an improvement from when i first started really working out a year ago.


----------



## MikeH

Leg day will be the death of me. The last two leg days have made me nearly unable to walk up and down my stairs without whimpering like a bitch.  Tomorrow is chest/triceps day, which I always love. Also, I've been taking Jack3d, and it has been giving me more reps. Trying to make sure I cycle on and off to keep my tolerance low.


----------



## MikeH

What in the actual f_u_ck?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-bhwC3qz_Q


----------



## gunshow86de

So over the weekend I decided to ''build" myself a lifting platform. In this case, "build" means I stacked 2 sheets of 4-layer plywood on top of each other. 

As I mentioned before, I have a power rack in my apartment. I was squating and deadlifting off the carpet. Feels so much better to deadlift off the hard surface. Oh and the Texas Power Bar doesn't fall out of my hands. So that's a nice thing. You know, to actually be able to grip your bar when lifting. 

I'm on the 5-3-1+ week of my Wendler cycle. This week called for 365 on the 1+ set of the deadlift. After 3 easyish reps I just said, ".... this!" Put all 400 pounds on the bar (all the weight I have at the moment), and pulled 8 strong/fast reps. Feeling pretty beast mode right now!


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

^Yeah!

Holy shit @that CT Fletcher video


----------



## SoItGoesRVA

Going for a PR on muscle-ups. I got 10 last week, shooting for 12 today.


----------



## soliloquy

i'm so close to hitting 300LBS on deadlift. i know many of you are doing WAY above that, so it may not seem that big a deal to you. but still, i've hit 295lbs with 3 reps. i wont try it for another few weeks as it drains my energy and i struggle to finish the rest of the day at the gym. 

i'll get there


----------



## SoItGoesRVA

^Dude we've all been there. I remember benching 200 for the first time and getting so juiced on adrenaline I knocked out 210 right after it. If you're getting 295 but not 300, it may be more of a mental thing. Take a minute to breathe, put on a good track (in my case, preferably something violent), and just crush that shit


----------



## SoItGoesRVA

On another note, I got 12 muscle ups.

It's steak time, mother ....er.


----------



## gunshow86de

I hope you guys aren't getting annoyed with me treating this like Facebook (your workout doesn't count unless you post about it bro! ).

But...... the "platform" made a huge difference on squat today. Last set of my Wendler 1+ set was 360, I got 5 reps. Decided to try 390 and got a triple.  So much stronger with that solid base to lift from, no more shifting carpet.


----------



## MikeH

This is my 3rd day off. I'm going crazy. But Wednesday I saw Deafheaven, yesterday I came home from work and instantly fell asleep with intentions of waking up for the gym&#8230;.but, ya know. And today my girlfriend was going crazy about running errands for the weekend, so I'm making her wake up at 7:30 tomorrow so we can go. BICEPS!


----------



## MikeH

I set two PRs yesterday.

Squat - 250 lbs.
Leg press - 325 lbs.

My legs are god damn sore.


----------



## MikeH

Keeping this thread alive! 

My buddy was supposed to come to the gym tonight, which is usually okay. He's a lazy lifter, though. He'll take 5 minute breaks, walk on the treadmill, etc. I'm kind of glad he didn't show up, because I went in, threw in the headphones, blasted some JFAC, and destroyed my arms. Biceps, triceps, forearms, chest, and a little bit of back. I always love getting in the zone and busting out reps and doing higher weights than I thought I could. PROGRESS!


----------



## SoItGoesRVA

One of my sparring partners and I started a pissing contest of sorts- Who can do the most pull-ups in a row. He maxed out at 32, I got 36 today, and I weigh about 30 pounds more than him. To stay ahead of the curve, I'm going for 40 next week. 

EDIT: I should mention that both of us were wide-gripping and were using proper form. Kipping is for sissies.


----------



## Ibanezsam4

almost exclusively doing front squats now and getting my ass low to the flo... i took a break from my heavy back squats to concentrate on getting my hips lower at the bottom of the exercise. since then my lower back cant support the weight.. making me think my form wasnt good to begin with. 

but just because i my legs still need more stimulation im adding in heavy split squats with dumbells.


----------



## MikeH

Been getting my girl in the gym with me the past few days. Just have her doing functional stuff, plus some squats (for dat booty, doe ) and a little lifting. Honestly, it makes her even hotter to me. I love fit girls.


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

Was having trouble fitting training in around my ridiculous last-year-of-school workload, so me and my dad (he's trying to get fit again haha) changed it up and started waking up at 6 to train before school/work respectively. Feels absolutely incredible.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

Captain Shoggoth said:


> Was having trouble fitting training in around my ridiculous last-year-of-school workload, so me and my dad (he's trying to get fit again haha) changed it up and started waking up at 6 to train before school/work respectively. Feels absolutely incredible.


 
Definitely a good mood booster. I've always felt better about training first rather than after work.


----------



## gunshow86de

^

Yup, I've been thinking about switching back to before work too. It also helps me to stay on track with my macros better if I feel like I'm in "recovery mode" all day. Plus I can come home and just relax, play with my dog, play some guitar and go to sleep.

EDIT:
I guess I'll do a training update too. 

Starting cycle 3 of Wendler 5-3-1 today. I've already added ~15 lbs to my OHP, ~50 lbs to my deadlift (think I started with too low a 1RM though), ~5 lbs on bench ( ), and ~15 lbs on squat. Going to swap the "Boring But Big" days so that I can get in all the lifts twice a week. For example, today was the "main" OHP day (65% x 5, 75% x 5, 85% x 5+). I followed that with the "Boring But Big" for bench (50% x 10 for 5 sets). Tomorrow will be "main" deadlift, with the "Boring But Big" for squat. Thursday and Friday will be the opposite of Monday/Tuesday.

For anyone interested, the link below is probably the best free write-up on Wendler 5-3-1 (I should probably stop being cheap and just buy the e-book already ).

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online...aining_performance/how_to_build_pure_strength

Also for anyone interested; I found a really nice Excel sheet that will calculate everything for you for up to 13 4-week cycles (you can add as many as you want if you know basic Excel). PM me and I can email it to you.


----------



## Fiction

In hoping to get back in soon, but I'll probably be in before work as well, sucks doing split shifts though, generally not enough time in between and too tired after.

Edit: Just cancelled my gym membership (That is near home) and signed up for the gym right near work


----------



## DoomJazz

Atta boy Fiction!

I'm finally weighing in at 175-177lbs, depending on what time of day I weigh in at. Two months ago, it was 168-172lbs. Adding more meat and veggies and taking out most of the carbs has been a great success. Can't wait to start drinking protein again. I got some C4 because I felt myself getting lazy, and I'm going to order a bucket of creatine when I order the protein too. This ............ is going to weight more than 180 by the end of April . Getting some new running shoes when my tax return comes in so I can start sprints as soon as it gets above freezing haha. Man I love working out


----------



## MikeH

Was doing more weight than I typically do on almost everything tonight:

Bench: 165 lbs. for 6 reps
Rows: 105 lbs. 3x10
Dips: 3x10
Barbell curls: 50 lbs. 3x10, 60 lbs. for 10 reps
Dumbell curls: 40 lbs. 3x10
Tricep Pulldowns: 35 lbs. 3x10
Pushups: 2x15

Feeling good.


----------



## Dommak89

Could you guys share your experience with me regarding creatine? I'm going to try it starting next week, but I'm still not sure how I want to take it. My roommate takes it daily, always at the same time (even when he is not going to the gym) and an hour before his workout. He uses creatine hcl and about 2 grams of it.

I wanted to do it this way: Creatine - The Video That Explains it All
Short resumé: He takes it twice on workout days, right before and right after the workout. He says to take approx. 3 grams each time of creatine monohydrate (which I bought, but he also talks about creatine hcl). 
However I'm not sure what he does on his resting days.
Also I'm not sure how long I should take it. Always? Just for a couple of weeks?

TL;DR Basically I have three questions:
1. When do you guys take your creatine? (At what time, rest days etc.)
2. For how long do you take it?
3. What was the effect on your body (differentiating between creatine hcl and monohydrate, if possible)? Did you have stomach problems? Did you have huge muscle gains? Was it worth it in the end? What happened when you stopped?


----------



## Infamous Impact

Dommak89 said:


> Could you guys share your experience with me regarding creatine? I'm going to try it starting next week, but I'm still not sure how I want to take it. My roommate takes it daily, always at the same time (even when he is not going to the gym) and an hour before his workout. He uses creatine hcl and about 2 grams of it.
> 
> I wanted to do it this way: Creatine - The Video That Explains it All
> Short resumé: He takes it twice on workout days, right before and right after the workout. He says to take approx. 3 grams each time of creatine monohydrate (which I bought, but he also talks about creatine hcl).
> However I'm not sure what he does on his resting days.
> Also I'm not sure how long I should take it. Always? Just for a couple of weeks?
> 
> TL;DR Basically I have three questions:
> 1. When do you guys take your creatine? (At what time, rest days etc.)
> 2. For how long do you take it?
> 3. What was the effect on your body (differentiating between creatine hcl and monohydrate, if possible)? Did you have stomach problems? Did you have huge muscle gains? Was it worth it in the end? What happened when you stopped?


Take it once a day every day for as long as you want. I didn't really see much effect with it except some extra energy at the end of a set that allowed me an extra rep.


----------



## gunshow86de

Infamous Impact said:


> Take it once a day every day for as long as you want. I didn't really see much effect with it except some extra energy at the end of a set that allowed me an extra rep.



There are some studies that indicate your "absorption" is better if you do the 7 day loading at the beginning (essentially you take your typical serving 4 times per day for the first 7 days). After that, just take it after you workout. Like with any legal supplement, don't expect a huge, "night and day" difference. It just provides a bit of help in recovery. I do feel like it's helped me stay stronger later in the week. I used to feel a bit rundown on Friday sessions. Creatine is so cheap, you might as well try it. Unless you're buying some dumb "proprietary blend" (a la 'Dat Der Celltech), you shouldn't spend more that $50 for an entire year's worth of creatine.


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

I always take creatine with a fast-absorbing carbohydrate to increase absorption efficiency and speed, uptake is easier and I don't get the extreme farts I usually get when taking creatine otherwise


----------



## TrashJuice

Standard practice is to load or not load with 10g/day, then go down to 5g/day, anytime, every day. It's not going to matter if you take it right before or right after, it is about having an overall increased level of it in your body to speed up the time it takes your muscles to repair themselves.

Some stomachs are more sensitive to it than others so you might dissolve it into a larger amount of water than it calls for, or take 2.5g twice a day.


----------



## UnderTheSign

Captain Shoggoth said:


> Was having trouble fitting training in around my ridiculous last-year-of-school workload, so me and my dad (he's trying to get fit again haha) changed it up and started waking up at 6 to train before school/work respectively. Feels absolutely incredible.


I planned on doing that since I used to get up at 5 for work anyway but I live in a country where gyms don't open till 9am  Lot of short days at school nowadays though so I usually hit it around 3-4pm. Much better than previously when I wouldn't train till 8pm and have to be in bed by 10..


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

Ah, to be fair I lift at home so school notwithstanding I'm pretty flexible with timing.


----------



## DoomJazz

Take with carbohydrates, it takes better with an insulin spike, use the table at this web address to find how much you should take for maintenance and loading phase if you chose to do that. I take AllMax Creatine, it's 20 bucks for 1000 grams. Take for as long as you like, the only time to really cycle off of it is if you need to look extra dry.

http://www.nutritionexpress.com/showarticle.aspx?articleid=61


----------



## Dommak89

thanks a bunch for the insights


----------



## Ibanezsam4

DoomJazz said:


> Take with carbohydrates, it takes better with an insulin spike, use the table at this web address to find how much you should take for maintenance and loading phase if you chose to do that. I take AllMax Creatine, it's 20 bucks for 1000 grams. Take for as long as you like, the only time to really cycle off of it is if you need to look extra dry.
> 
> When to take creatine and how much to take - Nutrition Express Articles



AllMax is my favorite company. no proprietary blends, all the measurements listed, no shit ingredients... love that company. I use their pre-workout and swear by it


----------



## Ibanezsam4

Dommak89 said:


> Could you guys share your experience with me regarding creatine? I'm going to try it starting next week, but I'm still not sure how I want to take it. My roommate takes it daily, always at the same time (even when he is not going to the gym) and an hour before his workout. He uses creatine hcl and about 2 grams of it.
> 
> I wanted to do it this way: Creatine - The Video That Explains it All
> Short resumé: He takes it twice on workout days, right before and right after the workout. He says to take approx. 3 grams each time of creatine monohydrate (which I bought, but he also talks about creatine hcl).
> However I'm not sure what he does on his resting days.
> Also I'm not sure how long I should take it. Always? Just for a couple of weeks?
> 
> TL;DR Basically I have three questions:
> 1. When do you guys take your creatine? (At what time, rest days etc.)
> 2. For how long do you take it?
> 3. What was the effect on your body (differentiating between creatine hcl and monohydrate, if possible)? Did you have stomach problems? Did you have huge muscle gains? Was it worth it in the end? What happened when you stopped?



hmmmm... cant edit my other post. 

but i just started doing this and it feels great. i usually took creatine post, but having some before and after feels great. not sure if im getting better gains because of it... but i definitely think i feel less watery than taking all at once


----------



## DoomJazz

I just made a bodyspace profile, does anyone frequent that site? I had 3 people friend me right off the bat... really weird...

Also, did drop sets today with leg extensions and curls, between the combination of my C4 kicking in HARD and pushing my legs harder than they've ever gone, I ended up laying on the floor of the gym for 5 minutes trying to not cramp up, pass out, and/or puke. Sucked shit. Hopefully I can walk tomorrow


----------



## TRENCHLORD

DoomJazz said:


> I just made a bodyspace profile, does anyone frequent that site? I had 3 people friend me right off the bat... really weird...
> 
> Also, did drop sets today with leg extensions and curls, between the combination of my C4 kicking in HARD and pushing my legs harder than they've ever gone, I ended up laying on the floor of the gym for 5 minutes trying to not cramp up, pass out, and/or puke. Sucked shit. Hopefully I can walk tomorrow


 
Those would be bad crampers with dropsets . Just doing straight-sets (very straight sets ) normal always would give me cramps while driving home from the gym.
I really miss those machines lifting at home.


----------



## MikeH

DoomJazz said:


> I just made a bodyspace profile, does anyone frequent that site? I had 3 people friend me right off the bat... really weird...
> 
> Also, did drop sets today with leg extensions and curls, between the combination of my C4 kicking in HARD and pushing my legs harder than they've ever gone, I ended up laying on the floor of the gym for 5 minutes trying to not cramp up, pass out, and/or puke. Sucked shit. Hopefully I can walk tomorrow



I have one, but I'm never on it much.

I've been doing that when I take Jack3d lately. I just get tunnel vision and blow through my reps. Then on the drive home I want to pull over and die.


----------



## nangillala

MikeH said:


> I've been doing that when I take Jack3d lately. I just get tunnel vision and blow through my reps. Then on the drive home I want to pull over and die.



That's probably the reason why it is illegal in Germany now 

One question for you guys: I'm currently on a slow carb diet (i.e.: no white carbs, beans, etc. are ok) with one refeed day a week.

I want to start my training routine again but I'm more interested in weight loss with some basic training (stronglifts 5x5) than in muscle gains. I read up on different supplements and nearly all the studies I read propagated a mixture of Protein and Carbs (and Creatine) for strength gains, but also weight loss. 
Now I'm not sure if it's smart to take Malto or something similar in a PWS while on such a diet. 

What do you think? Any studies that I wasn't able to find?

Cheers


----------



## Anton

Man studies are bullshit, don't get caught up in them. You can read 500 of them and still look and feel like shit. 
Start training and build yourself a meal plan that works FOR YOU. Obviously eat healthy, listen to your body and do proper training. 

Benched 350 today for 10 reps, feeling good like a mofo.


----------



## notabumblebee

Anton said:


> Man studies are bullshit, don't get caught up in them. You can read 500 of them and still look and feel like shit.


 
No duh.


----------



## Dommak89

My *workout for the past* weeks looked like this:
4 days a week w/

Monday: Back + Abs
Tuesday: Shoulder/Neck + Triceps
Wednesday: /rest
Thursday: Legs + Biceps
Friday: Chest + Abs
Saturday: /rest
Sunday: /rest

I usually did 4-5 exercises per muscle group, exception being arms and abs which I did 2-3 exercises of. I do 3-4 sets and vary between pyramid, drop sets, supersets etc.

I took a week off and now I wanna switch it up a little and wanted to get some *new ideas*. My initial idea was to still go 4 days a week, but do a 3-day split looking like this:

1st week:
Monday: Back + Chest
Tuesday: Arms + Legs
Wednesday: /rest
Thursday: Shoulder/Neck
Friday: Back + Chest
Saturday: /rest
Sunday: /rest


2nd week:
Monday: Arms + Legs
Tuesday: Shoulder/Neck
Wednesday: /rest
Thursday: Back + Chest
Friday: Arms + Legs
Saturday: /rest
Sunday: /rest

etc.

I would do abs every monday and friday, no matter what exercises I did before. Also I would reduce the number of exercises to 3 per big and 2 for small muscle groups. I would do a lot of supersets e.g. bench press + pull ups, biceps curls + triceps extension etc. I wanted to work opposing muscles again, that's why I chose the 3-day workout. 

What would be your idea or suggestion for me to fill those 4 days? It needs to be these four days, because I have other stuff to do on the other days.


----------



## UnderTheSign

What's the reasoning behind that workout? Back and chest are both major muscle groups so I'd separate them. Do shoulders + arms, back and legs or back + bis (or tris), chest + tris (or bis), legs + shoulders, which is a classic split. If you have 4 days a week though, I'd do a 4 day split. More energy and recovery time for each muscle group.

Your previous split doesn't really make sense... Arms and legs on the same day but chest has it's own day? I'd do something like this:
Monday - Chest + triceps (or biceps)
Tuesday - Legs + abs
Wednesday - off
Thursday - Back + abs
Friday - Shoulders + biceps (or triceps)
Sat/Sunday - off
Something along those lines, anyway. And don't do this for a couple weeks, then switch up already.... Do this for 6-8 weeks at least. Reassess your progress and if you're unhappy about it, switch things up a bit. If it's working, continue until progress stops.


----------



## UnattendedGolfcart

For the last few weeks I've been doing a 4 day workout plan:

Monday - Back, biceps, shoulders
Tuesday - Chest, triceps, legs
Wednesday - rest
Thursday - Back, biceps, shoulders
Friday - chest, triceps, legs
Sat/Sun - rest

Then I would do abs two days a week on whatever days I felt impulsive. I did this for maybe 3 weeks and then switched the days around, so M/TH was tris and chest and T/F was back and bis. Although today I devoted to legs and abs and did 2 tris/chest workouts (dips and chest press) because I felt like it. I did 5 workouts for legs and I think 6 for abs. At the gym, I did an abdominal crunch machine, then when I got back to my dorm's tiny gym I did a circuit of frogs(idk what they're really called), cherry pickers, plank, then side planks. Did that circuit 3 times, then did a few sets of straight up leg lifts and crossovers. Feels good. 

Any tips or suggestions if I should switch up my exercises?


----------



## UnderTheSign

Read my post above yours for a 4 day routine.
Any reason for training each muscle group twic a week? If you insist on this layout, I'd start do them in this order, Back > shoulders > biceps and legs > chest > triceps. Bigger muscle groups come first.
As for exercises... I'm a proponent of basing them around the compound movements. Start back with deadlifts and/or rows, legs with squats, chest with bench press and shoulder with military press or a similar movement. Free weights over machine unless you really want to isolate a certain muscle.


----------



## Dommak89

UnderTheSign said:


> What's the reasoning behind that workout? Back and chest are both major muscle groups so I'd separate them.



Actually there is! I wanted to try the antagonistic workout. An example and some benefits are shown *here*. Also I wanted to continue doing a 4 day workout. I chose to switch it up compared to the example in the link since I don't do too much for legs (don't need to) and want to save time. And I liked the idea of working the same muscle group in a week once in a while.

What's the reason you are opposed to my idea? I'm curious, that's why I was asking in the first place. I'm going to do that routine anyway. Just wanted to hear some opinions with explanations.


----------



## s2k9k

Lifter right here baby. I don't lift as much as I used to anymore. But I get in a good 3 days every week now.


----------



## UnderTheSign

Dommak89 said:


> Actually there is! I wanted to try the antagonistic workout. An example and some benefits are shown *here*. Also I wanted to continue doing a 4 day workout. I chose to switch it up compared to the example in the link since I don't do too much for legs (don't need to) and want to save time. And I liked the idea of working the same muscle group in a week once in a while.
> 
> What's the reason you are opposed to my idea? I'm curious, that's why I was asking in the first place. I'm going to do that routine anyway. Just wanted to hear some opinions with explanations.


Why don't you need to do too much for legs? A lot of guys say that but the majority just does so cause they want big arms and don't care about legs.

The main reason I oppose working muscles twice a week is that training them once a week allows for more intensity and longer recovery periods. I'm mostly opposed to that - the antagonistic model simply isn't my cup of tea.


----------



## Dommak89

UnderTheSign said:


> Why don't you need to do too much for legs? A lot of guys say that but the majority just does so cause they want big arms and don't care about legs.



I do legs simply to train my entire body and not because I want to have huge legs. I'm not competing so I don't need muscular legs. Plus I'm more of an ecto-/mesomorph guy and already have fairly big legs. In other words I don't think I'll ever be in the position that my upper body is too huge for my legs.



> The main reason I oppose working muscles twice a week is that training them once a week allows for more intensity and longer recovery periods. I'm mostly opposed to that - the antagonistic model simply isn't my cup of tea.


If I notice any deficits during that workout, because my muscle fiber hasn't fully recovered I will change it up anyways.


----------



## UnattendedGolfcart

UnderTheSign said:


> Read my post above yours for a 4 day routine.
> Any reason for training each muscle group twic a week? If you insist on this layout, I'd start do them in this order, Back > shoulders > biceps and legs > chest > triceps. Bigger muscle groups come first.
> As for exercises... I'm a proponent of basing them around the compound movements. Start back with deadlifts and/or rows, legs with squats, chest with bench press and shoulder with military press or a similar movement. Free weights over machine unless you really want to isolate a certain muscle.



I felt that training only once a week wouldn't do that much for me. I'm not big by any means, I've only been working out seriously for a couple of months now. I figured hitting a body part twice a week with plenty of recovery time between each session would work for me, seeing as I'm trying to build right now.


----------



## Uncreative123

UnattendedGolfcart said:


> I felt that training only once a week wouldn't do that much for me. I'm not big by any means, I've only been working out seriously for a couple of months now. I figured hitting a body part twice a week with plenty of recovery time between each session would work for me, seeing as I'm trying to build right now.




...but you're not allowing enough recovery time between each session because of the volume you're doing. Biceps and back AND Shoulders? Then Chest, triceps, AND legs? That's five different workouts for me that you're cramming into two days. And you're doing that twice a week. 

If you don't think that's too much volume then why not do it all in one super workout that lasts 5 hours?


----------



## s2k9k

Uncreative123 said:


> ...but you're not allowing enough recovery time between each session because of the volume you're doing. Biceps and back AND Shoulders? Then Chest, triceps, AND legs? That's five different workouts for me that you're cramming into two days. And you're doing that twice a week.
> 
> If you don't think that's too much volume then why not do it all in one super workout that lasts 5 hours?



The only thing that really matters is that you get up off your ass and go lift some heavy ass weights. Just because someone disagrees with how you do it doesn't mean shit. Everybody has their own way or routine of getting strong or big. And we all keep learning more as we go along as well. Just do what you do and keep that form correct.


----------



## gunshow86de

I train "everything" twice a week too, but I'm also primarily doing only the "Big 4" lifts, with minimal accessory lifts (pullups, ring dips, some kettlebell and occasionally Dorian rows). My overall volume on each exercise ends up being fairly normal though ("strength day" is only 3 sets on the main lift minus warmup, then a "speed/dynamic" day at 5 sets of 10 at 50-70% of max). Doing a typical bodybuilder type of volume twice a week might be a little too much for most. If you really want to do every body part twice a week, just be mindful of your total volume over the week.


----------



## s2k9k

I love CT!!!!!


----------



## s2k9k

One More


----------



## TRENCHLORD

Just stubbed my big toe so hard it ripped the overgrown nail right up to about the halfway back spot. (yeah I know, trim your toenails scumbag )
Why do we have to have so many nerve-endings under our nails? 
Seems pointless, I mean sure I want to know if someone is trying to cut my toe off, but hell  that's just uncalled for.
It was right when I was setting up for flat bench so it did serve to augment the coffee.

Got 17 reps with 275, but it took 3 sets to do it. (7,6,4), then I quick-dropped with no rest back to 225 and failed around 7 or 8.
Was making sure to freeze at both the top and bottom and squeeze extra, was also stopping about 5/6 of the way up to keep max tension and stopping at about an inch above the chest.
That was my whole workout.
With good weather to come for a couple months I'm going to buckle down and hit it 4 nights/wk. again before the heat gets here.

Spring/Summer also means lots of push-mowing for me because I'm too cheap for a rider and have a big hilly rough yard. Helps keep the fat off though and makes it so I can eat more .


----------



## s2k9k

dude


----------



## UnattendedGolfcart

I actually think I am going to try a new workout for a while and see how it goes. I do think I've been doing too much per day. My new workout might look something like this:

Monday: Chest, triceps
Tuesday: Back, biceps
Wednesday: Legs, abs
Thursday: Shoulders, traps
Friday: Abs
Sat/Sun: Rest

That way I can target just one or two spots each day and do more, and have more ample recovery periods. I'm going to try to hit abs two days a week simply because I really want my abs to come in  Any tips or suggestions?


----------



## UnderTheSign

s2k9k said:


> The only thing that really matters is that you get up off your ass and go lift some heavy ass weights. Just because someone disagrees with how you do it doesn't mean shit. Everybody has their own way or routine of getting strong or big. And we all keep learning more as we go along as well. Just do what you do and keep that form correct.


Getting off your ass is the basic requirement yeah... But that doesn't mean all training styles produce equal results.


----------



## Winspear

Anyone here do powerlifting? 
Gotten into it recently after a trainer at my gym expressed interest in me, saying I have good lifts for my size. I am only 160lbs currently but took part in a small meet at my gym this weekend after 2 weeks of practice (my first experience with 1 repping). PBs are 92.5kg bench, 140kg squat and 160kg deadlift - so 136.5lbs shy of the 1000lb mark. Going to be training with him intensely over the next few months and am hoping to compete in the local region for under 74kgs - hoping to have the 1000lb by then, which I think will be quite attainable given I've little experience tweaking form and identifying weak areas. Hoping for some fast gains in the coming weeks!


----------



## Uncreative123

s2k9k said:


> The only thing that really matters is that you get up off your ass and go lift some heavy ass weights. Just because someone disagrees with how you do it doesn't mean shit. Everybody has their own way or routine of getting strong or big. And we all keep learning more as we go along as well. Just do what you do and keep that form correct.





lol, said no one ever who produced worthwhile results. 


"Just go pick up something heavy...as many or as few times as you want. That's all!" Really?


----------



## gunshow86de

Uncreative123 said:


> lol, said no one ever who produced worthwhile results.
> 
> 
> "Just go pick up something heavy...as many or as few times as you want. That's all!" Really?



The Crossfit Philosophy (minus the heavy, or course )


----------



## s2k9k

Uncreative123 said:


> lol, said no one ever who produced worthwhile results.
> 
> 
> "Just go pick up something heavy...as many or as few times as you want. That's all!" Really?


 Yeah cuz that's what I said.


----------



## MikeH

Going for 205 on bench tonight. My last max was 185, and I've been hitting it for 2-3 reps the last few times I've benched, so I feel like I can get one solid rep out. Also, I'm really unhappy with my gains, so I'm going to tweak my routine and especially my diet and kick everything into overdrive.


----------



## UnderTheSign

UnattendedGolfcart said:


> I actually think I am going to try a new workout for a while and see how it goes. I do think I've been doing too much per day. My new workout might look something like this:
> 
> Monday: Chest, triceps
> Tuesday: Back, biceps
> Wednesday: Legs, abs
> Thursday: Shoulders, traps
> Friday: Abs
> Sat/Sun: Rest
> 
> That way I can target just one or two spots each day and do more, and have more ample recovery periods. I'm going to try to hit abs two days a week simply because I really want my abs to come in  Any tips or suggestions?


Looks better IMO though if you can train all weekdays, I'd switch friday and wednesday. Or really, save wednesday for rest/cario/whatever and scrap the just abs day. Throw in abs with another training day, shouldn't take too long anyway and speaking from experience, having a day off in a 4-day split is nice.


----------



## MikeH

Hit 205 last night on the bench.


----------



## MikeH




----------



## gunshow86de

^
Nah brah, it's bench day...................... brah.




How do you know when your pre-workout has kicked in? When you get an entire extra wrap out of your wrist wraps.  Especially when they're these bad boys =>





They're basically casts.


----------



## Guitarmiester

What kind of technique(s) do you guys use to up the amount you're lifting? 

I used to primarily be a runner with occasional lifting maybe 2 or 3 times a week. In October, I screwed up my knee from running too much and not giving myself enough time to recover. I can't run like I used to, at least not yet, so I've been focusing on lifting. 

I may be doing it all wrong but what I've been doing is starting at a solid weight I know I can comfortably bench. Warm up with 2 sets of 10-15, up the weight, 2 sets of 6-8, add more weight, 2 sets of 3-6 or whatever I can handle. Break for a few minutes and then repeat that same process. 

Do you guys up weight even if you can only do one or two reps or do you work toward a weight until you can hit at least 5+ reps at that weight? Excuse any nonsense that doesn't make sense or isn't the right terminology. Remember, I was a runner up until recently.


----------



## gunshow86de

Guitarmiester said:


> What kind of technique(s) do you guys use to up the amount you're lifting?
> 
> I used to primarily be a runner with occasional lifting maybe 2 or 3 times a week. In October, I screwed up my knee from running too much and not giving myself enough time to recover. I can't run like I used to, at least not yet, so I've been focusing on lifting.
> 
> I may be doing it all wrong but what I've been doing is starting at a solid weight I know I can comfortably bench. Warm up with 2 sets of 10-15, up the weight, 2 sets of 6-8, add more weight, 2 sets of 3-6 or whatever I can handle. Break for a few minutes and then repeat that same process.
> 
> Do you guys up weight even if you can only do one or two reps or do you work toward a weight until you can hit at least 5+ reps at that weight? Excuse any nonsense that doesn't make sense or isn't the right terminology. Remember, I was a runner up until recently.



This is the program I'm running. I'm admittedly biased towards it, but that's because I'm getting really good results (especially my deadlift, I'm already about 60 lbs stronger than the schedule calls for on deads). 

T NATION | How to Build Pure Strength

But yeah, percentages and sets/reps are already there for you. Very easy to follow, designed for small/slow but consistent strength increases.


----------



## gunshow86de

Hit a triple @ 300 on bench tonight (full pause at bottom) and my shoulders are pain free! All that technique plus mobility work is paying off.


----------



## UnattendedGolfcart

UnderTheSign said:


> Looks better IMO though if you can train all weekdays, I'd switch friday and wednesday. Or really, save wednesday for rest/cario/whatever and scrap the just abs day. Throw in abs with another training day, shouldn't take too long anyway and speaking from experience, having a day off in a 4-day split is nice.



I actually took wednesday off and will probably continue to do that. So my current week looks like:

M: Chest, tris
T: Back, bis
W: Rest
TH: Legs
F: Shoulders,traps, abs

Abs really aren't hard to do on a day with another body part so I think I'll stick with either this, or switch Thursday and Friday around.


----------



## s2k9k

gunshow86de said:


> ^
> Nah brah, it's bench day...................... brah.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How do you know when your pre-workout has kicked in? When you get an entire extra wrap out of your wrist wraps.  Especially when they're these bad boys =>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They're basically casts.




LOVE BroScience LOL


----------



## Scar Symmetry

Made excellent gains/fat loss this past week. Only had one day off since Sunday (Thurs) and gonna try keep it up when I'm back to work. Would be a shame to lose this momentum! Had to split some body parts over two sessions due to reasonable waiting times and availability of equipment, I find it helps me to be dynamic and not stress if I can't work exactly what I want to work on any specific session. If it's quiet in there (usually Thurs-Sun( I'll go nuts though! Aiming for 85kg (187lb) bench by end of April.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

Scar Symmetry said:


> Made excellent gains/fat loss this past week. Only had one day off since Sunday (Thurs) and gonna try keep it up when I'm back to work. Would be a shame to lose this momentum! Had to split some body parts over two sessions due to reasonable waiting times and availability of equipment, I find it helps me to be dynamic and not stress if I can't work exactly what I want to work on any specific session. If it's quiet in there (usually Thurs-Sun( I'll go nuts though! Aiming for 85kg (187lb) bench by end of April.


 
Amen to the training flexibility statement.
One of my lifting buddies from the late 90's used to get so jammed up inside when we'd get to the gym and his favorite bench was in use.
He'd damned near get frustrated to tears when it was squat day and some all-talk goons would have the rack .
I literally had to hold him back one time when one of the goons got cocky at him when he demanded they clean up area and rack the plates when done.
This guy could bang out 5-7 deadlift reps with 495!!!, and he was the scrapper type as well. 
He'd have probably destroyed all three of the goons if it came down to it.


----------



## SoItGoesRVA

TRENCHLORD said:


> Amen to the training flexibility statement.
> One of my lifting buddies from the late 90's used to get so jammed up inside when we'd get to the gym and his favorite bench was in use.
> He'd damned near get frustrated to tears when it was squat day and some all-talk goons would have the rack .
> I literally had to hold him back one time when one of the goons got cocky at him when he demanded they clean up area and rack the plates when done.
> This guy could bang out 5-7 deadlift reps with 495!!!, and he was the scrapper type as well.
> He'd have probably destroyed all three of the goons if it came down to it.



Must be a gym thing, a few months ago I told a guy to pick up his shit and he got heated and said "You wanna take this outside?" I obliged, and gave him the ass whipping his parents should have given him long ago. I'm amazed at how many people start talking shit and forget they can't fight.


----------



## Winspear

Guitarmiester said:


> Do you guys up weight even if you can only do one or two reps or do you work toward a weight until you can hit at least 5+ reps at that weight? QUOTE]
> 
> Whenever you hit your goal rep range. That could be 1 or it could be 12 depending what you're training for  Just make sure the form is good.
> So I might train 3x 4-6 @ 50kg one week. As long as I get 3 sets of 4, I wont put the weight down next workout. As soon as I get 3x 6, I will put it up next workout (providing the form was good, if it was a bit slack towards the end I'll do another workout on the same weight).


----------



## TRENCHLORD

SoItGoesRVA said:


> Must be a gym thing, a few months ago I told a guy to pick up his shit and he got heated and said "You wanna take this outside?" I obliged, and gave him the ass whipping his parents should have given him long ago. I'm amazed at how many people start talking shit and forget they can't fight.


 
Hell yeah !!!
We need at least one or two like you at every good gym.


----------



## SoItGoesRVA

TRENCHLORD said:


> Hell yeah !!!
> We need at least one or two like you at every good gym.



Best part is I'm 5'8" and about 165, so I get underestimated constantly. I'm also a 1st dan in Shorin Ryu, a green belt in Judo, and a no-gi Jiu Jitsu practitioner. Threatening people you don't know is an idiotic move. 

And that's all for "When Keepin' It Real Goes Wrong"...


----------



## TRENCHLORD

SoItGoesRVA said:


> Best part is I'm 5'8" and about 165, so I get underestimated constantly. I'm also a 1st dan in Shorin Ryu, a green belt in Judo, and a no-gi Jiu Jitsu practitioner. Threatening people you don't know is an idiotic move.
> 
> And that's all for "When Keepin' It Real Goes Wrong"...


 
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay worse than the gym is,,,,,,,,,,,,The Bar .

99% of those toughguys don't do any training at all, in anything. It's amazing how far out they hold their arms out, as if they're holding softballs in their armpits.
They strain their backs puffing their chests out.


----------



## SoItGoesRVA

Back on topic, Circuit training day!

5 x 5 minute full body circuit, :30 second breaks in between.

take a 2 minute break to stretch and then do it once more.


----------



## AnavarOfficial

Typically your standard bro split

m Chest
t Back
w Legs
th Delts
f Arms
weekend - chill

A couple months at a time ill do full body, just compound oly lifts x 3 week.

As long as your getting stronger your doing it right

(unless your cutting)


----------



## gunshow86de

Got my 13mm Inzer Forever belt yesterday, then promptly got trapped in it. 

Seriously, you need to break that thing in first. That leather is so thick and stiff that it took me like 10 minutes to unbuckle it (5 minutes of which involved lots of swearing and a minor panic attack).


----------



## UnderTheSign

AnavarOfficial said:


> Typically your standard bro split
> 
> m Chest
> t Back
> w Legs
> th Delts
> f Arms
> weekend - chill
> 
> A couple months at a time ill do full body, just compound oly lifts x 3 week.
> 
> As long as your getting stronger your doing it right
> 
> (unless your cutting)


A true bro skips leg day though... "because my legs are already big enough and I run a lot so don't have to train them"


----------



## AnavarOfficial

UnderTheSign said:


> A true bro skips leg day though... "because my legs are already big enough and I run a lot so don't have to train them"


 
soooo much real life

Everytime I squat people look at me like "What the hell is that guy doing in the curl rack?"


----------



## gunshow86de

Since you're posting in the weightlifting thread, I gotta ask, is the Anavar in your name a reference to what I think it is?


----------



## AnavarOfficial

gunshow86de said:


> Since you're posting in the weightlifting thread, I gotta ask, is the Anavar in your name a reference to what I think it is?


 
When we were trying to think of our band name, one of us jokingly said, steriods, then after we kept joking around we came to Anavar. We couldnt think of anything better so we ran with it.

Every now and then, someone picks up on it and has a laugh, and every time we see our name on posters for shows we think its the funniest thing ever.

All of us in the band are pretty committed lifters, cept the singer, so it kinda fits to i guess.


----------



## Anton

Did legs, Hack Squat>Leg Press>Leg Extensions>Leg Curls> light Squat superset with Good Morning. 
550 on the hack squat, 10 reps my legs were burning.


----------



## AnavarOfficial

Anton said:


> Did legs, Hack Squat>Leg Press>Leg Extensions>Leg Curls> light Squat superset with Good Morning.
> 550 on the hack squat, 10 reps my legs were burning.


 
550, thats a dam good effort!


----------



## gunshow86de

Got a nice little bonus at work, treated myself to some new toys.







Got an Inzer 13mm Forever Belt (in the requisite red, white and blue )
Wei-Rui VX3 Fury Weightlifting Shoes (had my first squat session in them today, felt really good, but it's my deload week, real test will come next week)
Rogue Flat Utility bench (finally got a competition size bench, my old one was a cheapo adjustable that was almost 23" high (this one is ~18"), couldn't get any leg drive, this one is so much better)

And my home gym. What, you bros don't have a power rack in your dining nook?


----------



## TRENCHLORD

^^^ I've always wondered how it felt to do cleans in real WL shoes.
Using regular shoes one must be careful to not over-pull the bar back, especially when you have a glass window right behind . (speaking of myself)

I settled on wrestling shoes many years back for the squat and deadlift, mainly so I didn't fry my street shoes.
Whenever I do squats in regular shoes it does relieve the lower-back some, and it hits my lower quads better around the tear-drops.
I suppose like most things it's better to change it up for variation. (well more for physique work not powerlifting)


----------



## MikeH

Leg day cometh. Finally get to squat and deadlift on a free bar, instead of Planet Fitness' shitty smith machines. HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO GET SWOLE ON A SMITH MACHINE, PF?

I jest, because they can be useful. But I've noticed a huge improvement in my form and strength since going to gyms that have power racks instead.


----------



## AnavarOfficial

MikeH said:


> Leg day cometh. Finally get to squat and deadlift on a free bar, instead of Planet Fitness' shitty smith machines. HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO GET SWOLE ON A SMITH MACHINE, PF?
> 
> I jest, because they can be useful. But I've noticed a huge improvement in my form and strength since going to gyms that have power racks instead.


 
planet fitness, eeewww

smith machines are the devil, stay away!


----------



## MikeH

Snapped a picture that marks 10 weeks since I started lifting since high school. I was a measly 140 lbs. when I started, now I'm sitting between 150-151.5 on a good day. Still have a ways to go before I get to my initial goal (which I will continue to smash thereafter), but I'm happy with my progress thus far.


----------



## AnavarOfficial

MikeH said:


> Snapped a picture that marks 10 weeks since I started lifting since high school. I was a measly 140 lbs. when I started, now I'm sitting between 150-151.5 on a good day. Still have a ways to go before I get to my initial goal (which I will continue to smash thereafter), but I'm happy with my progress thus far.


 
the gains you make in the first 3-6 months will be the best of your life!

awesome work mang!


----------



## UnderTheSign

Shit man, looks like proper progress for 10 weeks. I started out a good 50lbs heavier and when I gained 10-15lbs it didn't show nearly as well.


----------



## MikeH

I've become addicted.  I'm still so far off from where I want to be, but I'm proud of the progress. I'm trying to add another 15-20 lbs by the end of the year, so we'll see how that goes. My 3,000 calorie diet may need to be multiplied to make it happen, but that's how you get swole, amirite?


----------



## icos211

MikeH said:


> Snapped a picture that marks 10 weeks since I started lifting since high school. I was a measly 140 lbs. when I started, now I'm sitting between 150-151.5 on a good day. Still have a ways to go before I get to my initial goal (which I will continue to smash thereafter), but I'm happy with my progress thus far.



Damn, dude. I've been working out and on a bulking diet for probably about as long as you, and haven't made nearly those kinds of gains. I started at about 180-182 and I'm only up to about 186-189. And I don't show nearly as well as you, either. Good damn job!


----------



## TrashJuice

gunshow86de said:


> Got my 13mm Inzer Forever belt yesterday, then promptly got trapped in it.
> 
> Seriously, you need to break that thing in first. That leather is so thick and stiff that it took me like 10 minutes to unbuckle it (5 minutes of which involved lots of swearing and a minor panic attack).



Haha, this made me laugh. I got stuck in my forever belt too, years ago. If you can find a pillar you can wrap the loose portion around it and twist your hips til it comes undone.


----------



## MikeH

Thinking about trying to follow this plan:
Bodybuilding.com - Get Swole: Cory Gregory's 16-Week Muscle Building Trainer

I've been loosely following BB's "Big Man On Campus" plan, but not very strictly, only using it for certain days when I don't know exactly what I want to do in the gym. Otherwise, I just look at it for inspiration. Does anyone else here strictly follow a particular plan, or are most of you just "do your own thing" kind of guys who develop their own plans?


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

Was checking progress and pulled 3plate deadlift for 2 reps last week. Goal of hitting 4plate before I go to university feeling a lot more realistic


----------



## TRENCHLORD

TrashJuice said:


> Haha, this made me laugh. I got stuck in my forever belt too, years ago. If you can find a pillar you can wrap the loose portion around it and twist your hips til it comes undone.


 
 Happened to me also, a couple times.
Learned my lesson ended up using a small screwdriver to effectively ream-out the holes just enough to not get stuck again.
I only use belts on barbell curls and overhead pressing.


----------



## Winspear

Strength has been going up very steady on my new routine, but I'm starting to have a knee issue on the squat now I'm up to a fairly heavy weight (repping 130kg). I feel like I have my form down pretty tight and others agree - fairly wide stance with toes pointed out and my knees tracking over my feet. However I started getting a 'tight' left knee - it would take a fair amount of warming up. Felt like I was stretching some tight band over it when I squatted, until I had a couple of sets out at which point it was fine. Now however I'm having a dull ache lasting days after the workouts, and it's come to a point this week where I think it's on the border of injury. What do I do at this point to begin to sort it out?

Also, my girlfriend is joining my gym  I liked a pic of Jen Selters ass on Facebook and she popped up requesting I make her like that, so  Thankfully she's well into the idea of training properly and lifting heavy weights. Should be fun! I need tips for what routine to put her on. She just needs to lose a bit of weight (probably 27% bf) and build some muscle. Her job and training traveling to a hospital mean she isn't here a lot and can't train too frequently. Some weeks would be weekends and Wednesday, some weeks weekends only. Other weeks 4 or 5 days a week no problem. So it's pretty inconsistent. I feel like Squats, Deads, Bench, Rows and Overhead Press combined with some interval sprinting would be a good start - but how to split it up so the days are flexible, infrequent weeks are still as effective as can be, and each single workout isn't too much?

Lifting meet this weekend. Shooting for 100kg bench, 170kg deadlift and 150kg squat (if my knee is ok after a week of rest) at 74kg bw


----------



## UnderTheSign

Maybe have her run a 4-day split based on bench, OHP, deads and squats? Can be leveled down to a 2-day routine. This is a good read. T NATION | Effective Training for Busy Men


----------



## MikeH

Tried the new plan I posted above. Almost everything is super-setted (that's a word now). I haven't had too many sore days since starting and drinking a shit ton of BCAAs everyday, but I did back and chest yesterday, and holy shit am I sore. Today is legs/abs, so I can already tell walking up the stairs for a shower is going to be a treacherous feat.


----------



## icos211

Just got my $100 order of supps from Bodybuilding and what do you know? They put (almost) everything on the site 15% off the day after. Just my luck. I guess I might get some Casein and BCAAs...


----------



## TrashJuice

Captain Shoggoth said:


> Was checking progress and pulled 3plate deadlift for 2 reps last week. Goal of hitting 4plate before I go to university feeling a lot more realistic



Nice. 3 plates on any lift is a big milestone. I just hit 4 plates on DL 4ish months ago and it was an amazing feeling. A few weeks later I pulled 425. I'm not sure what my true max is, I keep getting tired before I think my strength has really given out.


----------



## MikeH

icos211 said:


> Just got my $100 order of supps from Bodybuilding and what do you know? They put (almost) everything on the site 15% off the day after. Just my luck. I guess I might get some Casein and BCAAs...



For BCAAs, GET MUSCLEPHARM'S AMINO1! That shit is magical. I bought the lemon-lime flavor. Tastes straight up like Kool-aid, and it makes recovery so much easier. I'm hardly ever sore for more than a day when drinking it. Usually leg days take me like 3 days to fully recover. I'm down to one now.


----------



## Dyingsea

I've gone full circle basically in my years of training. I'm really getting away from heavy free weights and doing much more light resistance, body weight, plyo, agility, running, yoga etc. training basically crossfit/P90x stuff. The heavy weights just seem to wear on my joints and make me feel old and broken for lack of a better term. I have wayy more energy and explosiveness now, feels great.


----------



## icos211

MikeH said:


> For BCAAs, GET MUSCLEPHARM'S AMINO1! That shit is magical. I bought the lemon-lime flavor. Tastes straight up like Kool-aid, and it makes recovery so much easier. I'm hardly ever sore for more than a day when drinking it. Usually leg days take me like 3 days to fully recover. I'm down to one now.



Thanks man, and I feel ya on the leg day recovery, I'm in the same boat you were. I'm on a 3 day rotation of legs/core, arms, chest and back, then repeat with a rest on every Tuesday, so sometimes my legs aren't even back to feeling right before I have to do them again. I decided I couldn't justify spending more money right now. I should have enough of a supply to last until I'm back to work, so maybe next time. Musclepharm stuff is so expensive though, it really puts me off. I've been bouncing around between BPI(and it's subsidiary, Image Sports), Met-Rx, and Body Fortress(ultra cheap). Are Musclepharm sups really that much better to justify the extra cost?


----------



## Ibanezsam4

icos211 said:


> Thanks man, and I feel ya on the leg day recovery, I'm in the same boat you were. I'm on a 3 day rotation of legs/core, arms, chest and back, then repeat with a rest on every Tuesday, so sometimes my legs aren't even back to feeling right before I have to do them again. I decided I couldn't justify spending more money right now. I should have enough of a supply to last until I'm back to work, so maybe next time. Musclepharm stuff is so expensive though, it really puts me off. I've been bouncing around between BPI(and it's subsidiary, Image Sports), Met-Rx, and Body Fortress(ultra cheap). Are Musclepharm sups really that much better to justify the extra cost?



they have big doses of ingredients + a good marketing scheme and thus a large following. there's enough companies doing what their doing so it all comes down to personal preference at this point. im a huge allmax fan cuz they dont use proprietary blends, but i dont think i could say reliably that their products would give better results than musclepharm. just remember...


----------



## MikeH

icos211 said:


> Thanks man, and I feel ya on the leg day recovery, I'm in the same boat you were. I'm on a 3 day rotation of legs/core, arms, chest and back, then repeat with a rest on every Tuesday, so sometimes my legs aren't even back to feeling right before I have to do them again. I decided I couldn't justify spending more money right now. I should have enough of a supply to last until I'm back to work, so maybe next time. Musclepharm stuff is so expensive though, it really puts me off. I've been bouncing around between BPI(and it's subsidiary, Image Sports), Met-Rx, and Body Fortress(ultra cheap). Are Musclepharm sups really that much better to justify the extra cost?



Would I say that they're worlds better? Not necessarily. Obviously some of the increased cost comes from their marketing campaign and affiliation with Arnold, including the new Arnold Series supplements. But I don't have a great frame of reference since this is the first time I've used MP stuff. I don't use it for everything, as I currently use Body Fortress for my whey protein, and Six Star for creatine. But I do like the results I've had, therefor I'm going to try more of their products.


----------



## gunshow86de

Feeling on top of the world right now. Hit a huge milestone on bench today. Did heavy singles trying to find out my "true" max. Did 315, 320, 325, 330, 335 and 340. The 340 took a lot out of me. I didn't think I had 345, but I decided to Yolo it for 350 instead (because I'm smart like that). And................................ I actually locked it out (full pause at the bottom too)! 

I'm actually maxing out on everything this week. I need to adjust my 1RM for the percentages, since I'm way ahead of the Wendler schedule on bench and deadlift (my 1+ set last cycle on bench I did 10 reps).


----------



## TRENCHLORD

Maybe there's a reason I'm not seeing, but why buy BCAAs separately?

You can get whey isolate for about $1.25 per 60g serving, but you not only get about 10g of BCAAs out of it, you also get another 50g of whey isolate on top of the BCAAs for your $1.25.

Looks like BCAAs alone for a 10g serving is pushing $1 per serving.


Even for someone cutting weight, pure whey-isolate powder has only a gram or two of added carbs and/or fat.


edit; well my math was a little off, looks closer to like $1.50 vs $.75 per serving, but still, if you're using whey-isolate I wouldn't think there would be a need for a BCAA sup., especially if you eat many other quality protein sources like eggs, dairy, meat ect..


----------



## gunshow86de

Did heavy singles on squat today, hit an all-time PR of 440 (belted, no wraps). 

Question: I don't post workout stuff to Facebook because I think it's too narcissistic. Do you guys think it's better or worse posting it here, semi-anonymously?


----------



## Fiction

To be fair this is a thread just for posting such a thing, so go ahead


----------



## TRENCHLORD

gunshow86de said:


> Did heavy singles on squat today, hit an all-time PR of 440 (belted, no wraps).
> 
> Question: I don't post workout stuff to Facebook because I think it's too narcissistic. Do you guys think it's better or worse posting it here, semi-anonymously?


 
If I were hitting PRs I'd probably be posting it also. 

Have you done a good photo spread on here yet?
Can't really be considered a legit self-absorb until you do some good public flex-posing.


----------



## gunshow86de

TRENCHLORD said:


> Can't really be considered a legit self-absorb until you do some good public flex-posing.



I stick to private flex shows only. Those supps ain't gonna pay for themselves!


----------



## TRENCHLORD

Yeah, why should I pay by the month when I could charge by the hour?


----------



## MikeH

Got my preacher curls up to 100 lbs for 6x8s.


----------



## Fiction

Hey guys, can I get some recommendations for Protein, I've been using this;

ACE Whey Protein Isolate | MyoPure

But the taste is rather bland and kind of off putting, which doesn't bother me cause I just add it to smoothies/shakes, but my largest issue is the solubility, the shakers won't do it, needs to be blended. I've tried mixing it with water when I didn't want extra fats and it will pretty much turn to clumps instantly, no chance of mixing it in with water.

So I want something with a high protein per serve, easy to mix in and possibly flavourless, or something mild (vanilla?). Probably no more than $40-50 a kg.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

Fiction said:


> Hey guys, can I get some recommendations for Protein, I've been using this;
> 
> ACE Whey Protein Isolate | MyoPure
> 
> But the taste is rather bland and kind of off putting, which doesn't bother me cause I just add it to smoothies/shakes, but my largest issue is the solubility, the shakers won't do it, needs to be blended. I've tried mixing it with water when I didn't want extra fats and it will pretty much turn to clumps instantly, no chance of mixing it in with water.
> 
> So I want something with a high protein per serve, easy to mix in and possibly flavourless, or something mild (vanilla?). Probably no more than $40-50 a kg.


 

Wal-Mart carries the Body Fortress whey-isolate, not sure if it's available downunder at the same deal though, but it mixes well IME.

Natures Best Isopure is a very well mixing and tasting blend that shakes right up quickly, but again not sure if it's reasonable in Australia.


----------



## Ibanezsam4

TRENCHLORD said:


> Maybe there's a reason I'm not seeing, but why buy BCAAs separately?
> 
> You can get whey isolate for about $1.25 per 60g serving, but you not only get about 10g of BCAAs out of it, you also get another 50g of whey isolate on top of the BCAAs for your $1.25.
> 
> Looks like BCAAs alone for a 10g serving is pushing $1 per serving.
> 
> 
> Even for someone cutting weight, pure whey-isolate powder has only a gram or two of added carbs and/or fat.
> 
> 
> edit; well my math was a little off, looks closer to like $1.50 vs $.75 per serving, but still, if you're using whey-isolate I wouldn't think there would be a need for a BCAA sup., especially if you eat many other quality protein sources like eggs, dairy, meat ect..



well i supplement more because i have a bad reaction to milk proteins of any variety. 
and since my only options are vegetarian and/or meat isolate powders (which are expensive) i add in more BCAAs for convenience and cost efficiency. 

other people use it for pump support hahaha


----------



## MikeH

If you guys are interested, check out my blog and Facebook page for my new outfit I'm trying to get up and running. Metal and weights. Both good things coming together.

https://www.facebook.com/lethalforcefitness
LETHAL FORCE FITNESS


----------



## BrainArt

^ Gave the page a like and bookmarked the blog.


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

Gave it a like



...... brah


----------



## MikeH

You guys are so sweet. 

Also, I think I might take some powerlifting pointers and add them to my routine. My current plan calls for one day of legs, but I really want to add another day of squatting to day 4. Day 4 is shoulders, and I only do two supersets and I'm done. Plus I really want to make my legs swell up. Too many guys avoid getting big legs just to focus on arms, which is okay. But I want to be fucking massive as a whole. Looking into the 20 Rep Squat program, which calls for one set of 20 squats (obviously) 3 times a week for 6 weeks. It's apparently a pretty classic routine and guys have weighed in (no pun intended) saying they've gained 10+ pounds in 6 weeks on it. That plan also includes GOMAD (gallon of milk a day), which is where 99% of those gains are probably coming from, and I'm not that rich to go spend $60 on a two week supply of milk on top of my other groceries.  But I do want to try it and finally get some size to my legs.


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

MikeH said:


> You guys are so sweet.
> 
> Also, I think I might take some powerlifting pointers and add them to my routine. My current plan calls for one day of legs, but I really want to add another day of squatting to day 4. Day 4 is shoulders, and I only do two supersets and I'm done. Plus I really want to make my legs swell up. Too many guys avoid getting big legs just to focus on arms, which is okay. But I want to be fucking massive as a whole. Looking into the 20 Rep Squat program, which calls for one set of 20 squats (obviously) 3 times a week for 6 weeks. It's apparently a pretty classic routine and guys have weighed in (no pun intended) saying they've gained 10+ pounds in 6 weeks on it. That plan also includes GOMAD (gallon of milk a day), which is where 99% of those gains are probably coming from, and I'm not that rich to go spend $60 on a two week supply of milk on top of my other groceries.  But I do want to try it and finally get some size to my legs.




I really want to blast my squats into infinity at the moment as my deads are going up pretty well but I'm struggling to make sure my legs are trim enough to fit into the suit I'm going to wear for my prom (curse you dad for taking me to get one in January instead of June) and I'm really having trouble shifting weight


----------



## MikeH

I did 5x5s at 250 lbs. today, and I still don't feel like that was everything I had. I want to work up to 300 within the next 2-3 months.


----------



## gunshow86de

Finished up my "1RM" week with deadlifts today. My 1RM's for the week;

Bench - 350
Squat - 440
Overhead press - 215
Deadlift - 480

Pretty stoked at my progress over the past few months. I'm seriously considering competing again if I can hit 500 on squat and get near 600 on deadlift within the next year (by next Spring). I'll still likely get my ass handed to me though.  I'd be competing in the 242's, I think I'm too heavy now to drop back into the 220's (my "walking around" weight is between 230-235).


----------



## MikeH

Got excited about 250 on my squat and you totally obliterate it.


----------



## SoItGoesRVA

Stopped barbell benching about a month ago and started doing weighted pushups (both with resistance bands and plates) and I feel noticeably stronger than I did before. Anyone else done this or am I crazy?


----------



## TRENCHLORD

With pushups we follow a curved track that runs opposite of bench.
On bench the bar will travel from lower-mid chest at the bottom to right over the mid-upper chest at the top.
Doing pushups is like a flat angle bench at the bottom and a decline bench at the top, thereby transferring the focus from mid-chest to lower-chest/lats more.

The change itself, and the fact that pushups are often performed more explosively might have something to do with the noticed strength gains.
Plus the resistance-bands, which increase resistance throughout the concentric range could also add some new change. (just like chains do for free-weights)


----------



## SoItGoesRVA

Well I feel like it's more of a functional exercise than when I bench, but maybe that's just personal preference.


----------



## TrashJuice

You might be unconsciously addressing a weakness in your pressing by doing the weighted/banded push-ups. I doubt that permanently substituting those for bench would be a long-term solution but bringing up a weak point while retaining most or all of your previous benching strength will definitely make you stronger. 

Are you familiar with conjugate or "Westside" training? I think that is a big part of that philosophy. You don't always train the actual press, squat, or deadlift, sometimes you train another similar lift (front squats instead of squats, good mornings instead of deadlifts, etc) to address a weakness in the main lift. Then when you go back to the main lift, surprise, you are stronger.


----------



## Konfyouzd

It's chest day!!!!!!


----------



## MikeH

Yes. Chest day is best day.


----------



## MikeH

Actually ended up switching out for leg day today. And in doing so, I hit two PRs on squat and leg press. 260 lbs and 400 lbs, respectfully. Both for 5x5. I felt like an animal. I still have yet to do any 1RM stuff, which I guess I should do. I'll probably try my 1RM on bench, squat, and leg press by the end of this week.


----------



## gunshow86de

So I did something incredibly stupid yesterday. After finishing a set, I sat up from the bench too quickly/aggressively. I smashed the shit out of the top of my head. The knurling caught a hold of my scalp and tore a decent sized chunk of skin/hair (it was actually stuck to the bar when I looked back at it ). Now I have a pretty gnarly gash on top of my head. It didn't actually hurt until I started pouring alcohol on it to clean the wound. That was some of the worst stinging pain ever. I'm just glad it clotted and is closing on it's own. Did not want to have to get stitches.

To add something constructive, one of my favorites Dan Green, smashing world records in the 220 lb class.


----------



## Ibanezsam4

thinking of working with a personal trainer at my gym to help with my shoulder growth.. i have a huge deficiency in that area and i want some one-on-one training in that regard


----------



## gunshow86de

^

What lifts are you currently doing for your shoulders?


----------



## Ibanezsam4

gunshow86de said:


> ^
> 
> What lifts are you currently doing for your shoulders?



standing barbell press, one handed standing dumbbell press, front and side lat raises, and then cable scarecrows. 

i realized i have a bad muscle imbalances (largely due to some injuries i've had) so im going to switch the barbell to a seated dumbbell press... idk i just dont make strength gains with my shoulders and stay frozen at my current weights. it just kinda blows.

its also started to seriously affect my bench ability because my stabilizers in my shoulders are weaker


----------



## gunshow86de

Well, I was going to suggest standing overhead press, since that's an exercise very few people do these days. But you're already doing them. 

Are you doing mobility/stretching work for your shoulders? I was having a really tough time making any strength increases on my overhead press (and getting a lot of pain) until I started using lacrosse balls everyday to loosen up my scapula and rear delts.


----------



## MikeH

300 mother fudging pounds for 3 mother fudging reps on the squat rack today! This was a goal of mine from the get-go. So incredibly stoked. Now to shoot for 400.


----------



## Ibanezsam4

gunshow86de said:


> Well, I was going to suggest standing overhead press, since that's an exercise very few people do these days. But you're already doing them.
> 
> Are you doing mobility/stretching work for your shoulders? I was having a really tough time making any strength increases on my overhead press (and getting a lot of pain) until I started using lacrosse balls everyday to loosen up my scapula and rear delts.



i'll definitely look into that. but i tried some seated overhead dumbbell-presses today and i think im going to turn those into my heavy shoulder exercise just to develop the strength, and then do a higher rep standing barbell press so i continue to develop my core stabilizers and posture while getting the extra volume work in. 



MikeH said:


> 300 mother fudging pounds for 3 mother fudging reps on the squat rack today! This was a goal of mine from the get-go. So incredibly stoked. Now to shoot for 400.



i remember when i hit 300. it felt good. now you're setting yourself up for the fun part of the journey


----------



## TRENCHLORD

Ibanezsam4 said:


> thinking of working with a personal trainer at my gym to help with my shoulder growth.. i have a huge deficiency in that area and i want some one-on-one training in that regard



My suggestions for adding roundness to the shoulders;

Chase bench-press with standing barbell overheads. (behind the head but don't go below ear-level, actually just tip the head forward and take the bar to where the ears were before you tipped head)
Use your 6-8 rep weight and then with no rest drop 20LBS and go to failure followed by another 20LB drop to failure, done.
OR
Chase bench with pushups to failure times 2. (as a dropset with 0 rest)


Then include much rowing and dumbbell bent-laterals on back/pull day.
When it comes to more straight up side laterals I much prefer one arm/shoulder at a time with the opposite leg forward and the working side's leg back.
Takes some playing around to find a good body-bracing stance so that you can concentrate on the shoulder.

Personally, I've never meshed well with having a separate chest day and a separate shoulder day within the same week.
I could do it on a 10-day split, but for me there's too much overlap on a 7-day program to have separate days for all the major groups.
Maybe with some TRT/PEDs it would work better for me , but so far I haven't had the luxury.


----------



## UnderTheSign

Try something like this. Simple Shoulder Training

Also, these worked great for my shoulder health, coupled with the shoulder stretches from Joe Defranco's upper body stretch routine. Band Pull-Apart Super Series for Healthy Shoulders


----------



## MikeH

Put up 300 6 times today. (2x3) Here's a video. 
Instagram

I'm not as low as I want to be, but no more adding weight until I can at least break parallel.


----------



## Winspear

Cool! I would drop to 250 or even 200 to work on it. Stand a touch wider with your feet turned out a little more and really focus on keeping the knees locked out, creating a burn deep into your groin and activating your hamstrings and hips the lower you go. You will find you are using your entire lower body for this, whereas now I expect you feel mainly just your quads. Goblet squats or even bodyweight are good to try this as you can use your elbows to help push the knees out. The hip machines will be helpful to build up strength too. Try to keep the weight on the 'outsides' of your feet.

Hit my 400kg milestone in my second meet a couple of weeks ago (up from 375kg) at 76kg bodyweight. 150kg squat, 85kg bench and 165kg deadlift. Could have got a 95kg bench but failed my 3rd attempt pushing for 97.5kg.

My trainer has me starting an experimental program he wrote, next week. It is an 8 week program designed to lead up to a meet. Main lifts include both heavy and light days, with heavies progressing from 4x5 to 1x1 over the 8 weeks and lights progressing from 4x6 to 4x10 with the weight decreasing. Heavy lifts start at 85% of the current 1RM and progress to a 104% at week 7, aiming for a 107-111% lift on week 8 of the meet. I created a spreadsheet and plugged my 1RMs in and the numbers it's showing me look pretty challenging - really looking forward to it. I can tell this is going to be the best 8 weeks I've ever trained and I hope to make the 440kg and slip into the 74kg category. In 13 weeks I'll be competing my first regional event as Junior 74kgs. This is fun and I wish I had started sooner!!


----------



## MikeH

Yeah, I'm going to drop to about 225 and try to start doing ATG squats. I caught a lot of shit for using the smith machine.  That's unfortunately all I have until my current membership runs out.


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

Solid stuff, but ATG is the way to go man, have always squatted this way and would never dream of doing otherwise


----------



## geese_com

Once my shoulder heals up, I'm gonna have to hit the gym again. Not many things better than getting a good lifting session in.


----------



## texshred777

Great day in the gym the other day. Really destroyed squat and Deadlift, left feeling beastly.

Also had weird random encounter. Some dude comes up and starts complimenting me on doing full ass to ground squats. Now, I appreciate that there's someone else in the gym who sees value in going below parallel...but let me finish my set before you talk to me.

Fat down 70lbs, muscle up 10lbs. Just 20 more pounds to go for 10% Bf. Probably won't cut any further..have been in a deficit(excluding occasional refeed days) for months.


----------



## Fiction

I think I posted about a month ago that I'm back in the gym, but I use to go for around 6 months, and I was pretty much just doing everything 3*12 and had no set days, and generally was making slow progress.

In the past month since I started back at the gym I've been alting between Tri + Chest, Biceps + Back & Legs + shoulders + Abs, and doing 3*8 reps, but higher weights and I've been making some pretty quick progress. Feeling really good about progress and my diet so far, except I generally don't eat weekends (Which is purely due to poor planning, as I do between 16 to 18 hour days at work), and need to cut back on alcohol, I've been going Low-carb beers, but it still doesn't help that I'd be drinking close to 30-40 beers a week.


----------



## MikeH

Alcohol will kill your gains, and develop the infamous beer belly. That should be the number 1 thing you cut out. And eating on the weekends is necessary. Tuperware is your friend. I can eat rice and chicken cold, so that's something you could do. Unless you've got a microwave at work, which helps. Eat that twice a day, some oatmeal, eggs, and a metric shitload of PEANUT BUTTER! I know cutting is the war against calories and carbs, but those are essential in muscle function and energy. So maintain a steady number of calories, but make sure you're eating solid calories that are accompanied with high protein, and adequate carbs and fat.

EDIT: Also, I think I've decided that I'm going to start working towards competitive powerlifting. I've become fascinated with putting up heavy weight, so I think I'm going to get on the 5/3/1 training program by Jim Wendler. It also helps that Ohio is basically the powerlifting mecca, so I'm going to find a gym close and start putting up some heavy weight.


----------



## Ibanezsam4

idk... as much as i like the simplicity of "bro dieting" i.e. macro nutrients.. im also not dead and i love flavor and culture. 

my little brother is a chef and he's been teaching me ways to eat clean without sacrificing flavor for bland tasting food. when watching food intake i think its worth investing some time in learning how to make food flavorful without adding junk. its easier to stick to a food plan when you actually enjoy the food you're eating


----------



## MikeH

I've decided that I've been too strict with my eating anyways. At least for my own goal of adding mass for power. Salad and brown rice and chicken every day is a little too bland. I need some spaghetti and meatballs, or a double cheeseburger from time to time. Ectomorph problems.

EDIT: If you ever want to enhance your brown rice and chicken, here's what I do.

3 white meat chicken breasts
1 small can of pineapple tidbits
1/2 cup of soy sauce (low sodium to curb the cholesterol, if you choose)

Put it in a crock pot for 4 hours on high, or 8 hours on low. Get a steamable bag of broccoli florets, and some brown minute rice. Throw those in the microwave, shred the chicken, throw it all together. It's pretty god damn delicious.


----------



## Infamous Impact

^Learning how to use spices will take you very far in great tasting food while on a cut.


----------



## Ibanezsam4

Infamous Impact said:


> ^Learning how to use spices will take you very far in great tasting food while on a cut.



exactly! i season my food with love.


----------



## Fiction

Yeah I'm a chef as well, so it's not actually cooking food that's the issue, just on weekends I literally work 8.30am to 11pm and we pretty much prep all the way through service whilst cooking and It's hard enough to get in some time to eat a proper meal, I generally just snack on veg/fruit.

And I'm aware of the alcohol ruining things haha, it's coming into winter so everyone starts to reserve back into there studies and parties/events don't seem to happen every second day.


----------



## texshred777

Cutting used to be a miserable time for me, but now I just adhere to getting my minimum protein and fat levels, and fill the rest of my calories with whatever I want. Not worrying about whether everything is "clean" or not is awesome. 

Not saying I eat protein shakes then junk, btw. I eat a crap ton of veggies(which I enjoy), lean proteins, and a good balance of other things. I actually don't use protein shakes anymore.

Point is, I can stick to a deficit, maintain LBM, and get my nutrients without feeling deprived. Sure, I could eat much larger amounts of food if they're "clean", but chicken breast, eggs, oatmeal, and broccoli gets boring after a time. 

Going to an IF type of eating schedule with IIFYM works for me, too. Before it's said, I know meal timing has no affect on metabolism or body composition..I just feel more satiated with two larger meals than five small ones. I'm also never hungry for the first half of a day.


----------



## Ibanezsam4

texshred777 said:


> Cutting used to be a miserable time for me, but now I just adhere to getting my minimum protein and fat levels, and fill the rest of my calories with whatever I want. Not worrying about whether everything is "clean" or not is awesome.
> 
> Not saying I eat protein shakes then junk, btw. I eat a crap ton of veggies(which I enjoy), lean proteins, and a good balance of other things. I actually don't use protein shakes anymore.
> 
> Point is, I can stick to a deficit, maintain LBM, and get my nutrients without feeling deprived. Sure, I could eat much larger amounts of food if they're "clean", but chicken breast, eggs, oatmeal, and broccoli gets boring after a time.
> 
> Going to an IF type of eating schedule with IIFYM works for me, too. Before it's said, I know meal timing has no affect on metabolism or body composition..I just feel more satiated with two larger meals than five small ones. I'm also never hungry for the first half of a day.



gonna be moving to a similar dieting paradigm very shortly. just because i wont have as much time to eat, so im going to pick my spots and just gorge.


----------



## bluediamond

I lost some 50 lbs in the last 12 months (was very obese). It's all about calorie deficit but it's not actually that simple. Increasing my calcium intake from dairy help me broke the plateau and accelerate my weight loss.
Lately I'm into intermittent fasting because I read that it is good for insulin sensitivity. When I get hungry I just drink coffee or green tea with splenda, or get some sugar free chewing gum.


----------



## gunshow86de

MikeH said:


> EDIT: Also, I think I've decided that I'm going to start working towards competitive powerlifting. I've become fascinated with putting up heavy weight, so I think I'm going to get on the 5/3/1 training program by Jim Wendler. It also helps that Ohio is basically the powerlifting mecca, so I'm going to find a gym close and start putting up some heavy weight.



That's the same program I'm running. If you also run the "Boring but Big" accessory work (5 sets, 10 reps @ 50% of your "working" 90% 1RM on the same lift, after the main 5/3/1 work), you can get a nice blend of strength and hypertrophy work. I have a really handy spreadsheet for Wendler 5/3/1 that calculates everything for you for several cycles in to the program. PM me and I can email you a copy if you're interested.

But yeah, you're definitely gonna need to find a gym where the Smith machine isn't the only option for squatting.


----------



## UnderTheSign

MikeH said:


> Yeah, I'm going to drop to about 225 and try to start doing ATG squats. I caught a lot of shit for using the smith machine.  That's unfortunately all I have until my current membership runs out.


Yeah, drop the weight, get your stance a bit wider and seeing as you're using a smith, feet a bit further in front of you as well, that'll allow you to drop down deeper. My gym used to only have a a smith as well so I know the feeling. 

Here's dinosaur Vinny G doing smith squats


----------



## MikeH

Well, I'm getting out of Planet Weakness this weekend and getting to a place with free bars, finally. But I'll definitely do that tonight.


----------



## MikeH

I think I might start Rippetoe's Starting Strength routine for a few weeks. Probably one of the better starting points for a powerlifter, it seems. Wanting to get my squat up to a solid 350 by the end of the year, if not more. Not to mention my bench has been lacking recently. I was able to put up 175 a couple months ago. Now My 5x5 is at 160.


----------



## texshred777

MikeH said:


> Well, I'm getting out of Planet Weakness this weekend and getting to a place with free bars, finally. But I'll definitely do that tonight.




Getting out of Planet Fitness and joining a place with barbells and squat rack was a good move for me. Dumbbells are great, but relying on them for Squats and Deadlift is less than ideal for me. I like using them on occasion for that, but not primarily. 

Not to mention, grunting sometimes happens...even if you're not a "lunker" or whateverthefvck.


----------



## MikeH

Definitely. I'll be switching on Saturday, so that will also begin my powerlifting training. I'm going with Mark Rippetoe's Starting Strength routine. Hope to hit a 200 bench, 300 squat, and 300 deadlift before my first competition.


----------



## Psionic

texshred777 said:


> Getting out of Planet Fitness and joining a place with barbells and squat rack was a good move for me. Dumbbells are great, but relying on them for Squats and Deadlift is less than ideal for me. I like using them on occasion for that, but not primarily.
> 
> Not to mention, grunting sometimes happens...even if you're not a "lunker" or whateverthefvck.



HAHAHA Planet Fitness just good we dont have them over here.



Just listen to what the guy is saying at the end of the vid 


Oh man this is awesome too:


----------



## MikeH

Going there will show you that they're "judgment free" towards people who want to walk on the treadmill and lift 5 lb dumbbells. Towards guys like me who want to put up heavy weight, it's the complete opposite. Can't wear deep cut sleeveless shirts, can't drink out of a gallon jug, can't make noise. It sucks ass.


----------



## Psionic

MikeH said:


> Going there will show you that they're "judgment free" towards people who want to walk on the treadmill and lift 5 lb dumbbells. Towards guys like me who want to put up heavy weight, it's the complete opposite. Can't wear deep cut sleeveless shirts, can't drink out of a gallon jug, can't make noise. It sucks ass.



So good you are switching.
Maybe they should think about adding "progress free zone" to their slogans.


----------



## Winspear

Those videos  "Personal Records? Can't do that here". That has to be the best quote of all time for a gym. I thought _every week _was meant to be a personal record.


----------



## Winspear

Also - regarding smith machine squats. I've never tried them, and I doubt I'd like them. However I'm struggling to see why a lot of people think they would be bad. As far as I'm aware the bar is meant to travel in a straight line above your heels when doing low bar squats? Surely the smith would help reinforce that as long as the start position was right. 
The whole standing further forward thing to sit back into it more on the smith makes sense in my head but at the same time I can't see why it would be necessary. May have to try em out of curiosity


----------



## gunshow86de

Smith machine squats are just very different, and not as "good" for your overall strength and physique. It takes away most of the need to stabilize the weight (from your core keeping your spine "neutral" and your upper back keeping the bar itself wedged in tight). If you squat properly, the bar should remain mostly over your ankle (it will feel like pressure is on the outer portion of your heel). To do this you have to sit back into the squat (hence why so many elite powerlifters recommend box squats), so there is a slight amount of backwards lateral movement on the bar. It's not much, but it's what makes the Smith machine so awkward and difficult to reach proper depth. And doing Smith machine squats with your feet out in front makes it more like a leg press or hack squat. None of those are bad exercises to do, but they're not really going to build your "real" squat all that much. 

tl;dr - There's no substitute for barbell back squats (IMO, of course).


----------



## MikeH

Agreed. I've gone with my brother to the gym that I'll be switching to, and the difference in my bench and squat were staggering. I put up 190 on the smith bench, couldn't even hit 175 on a regular barbell. But even doing sets with 135 felt so much better and like I got an actual workout. I haven't even attempted deadlifting on a smith machine, because that just calls for a back injury. I've done it a few times with a barbell, but I'm ready to finally add it to my routine.


----------



## texshred777

@psionic
(love the username btw)

Guy in the first video was asking for it going to Planet Fitness and screaming. 
They knew exactly what was going to happen, and had nothing to do with Deadlift or setting a PR. Desk guy may have said that, but chances are he just equated those terms with bodybuilding and being "aggressive". Personally, I wouldn't be using a smith machine to check BW DL reps. 

Still bullshit, though.

Second was great, I'm curious if PF ever responded....perhaps with an intelligent person. 

Bodybuilders and power lifters are too busy with their own shit to be worried about anyone else. PF just caters(panders) to people who project their own self judgements on others. There are exceptions, of course. Personally, I've experienced more condescending attitudes from 20 year olds in designer t shirts doing nothing but curls. 

In any case, F that place. 

This just makes me realize how much I love my gym. Meathead dungeon of a place. If you're screaming and destroying DL the owner will probably come and high five you.


----------



## Ibanezsam4

with all this talk of squatting, i think my back is almost strong enough to start back squatting again. i've been front squatting recently to strengthen my deep squats up while simultaneously strengthening my stabilizers. while i dont think im going to return to back squatting 100% of the time, i think im going to do supplemental weeks of 3RM and for that i'll use the back squats for that


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

Can't lift heavy for a few weeks, hurt my back sneezing ffs


----------



## MikeH

5/2/14:
Squat: 3x5 @ 200
Bench: 3x5 @ 160
Wide-grip Lateral Row: 3x5 @ 160
Pull-ups: 3 sets to failure

Wasn't feeling too happy about my workout today. I'm used to going in for an hour, busting my ass really hard on everything, getting a huge pump, and walking out feeling huge. And while this program is pushing the weights I'm lifting, it doesn't get me pumped up as much. Every lift is a challenge. But not pumping.


----------



## Psionic

MikeH said:


> 5/2/14:
> Squat: 3x5 @ 200
> Bench: 3x5 @ 160
> Wide-grip Lateral Row: 3x5 @ 160
> Pull-ups: 3 sets to failure
> 
> Wasn't feeling too happy about my workout today. I'm used to going in for an hour, busting my ass really hard on everything, getting a huge pump, and walking out feeling huge. And while this program is pushing the weights I'm lifting, it doesn't get me pumped up as much. Every lift is a challenge. But not pumping.



You may have get used to free weights as i did understand you didnt use free weights till now did you?


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

MikeH said:


> 5/2/14:
> Squat: 3x5 @ 200
> Bench: 3x5 @ 160
> Wide-grip Lateral Row: 3x5 @ 160
> Pull-ups: 3 sets to failure
> 
> Wasn't feeling too happy about my workout today. I'm used to going in for an hour, busting my ass really hard on everything, getting a huge pump, and walking out feeling huge. And while this program is pushing the weights I'm lifting, it doesn't get me pumped up as much. Every lift is a challenge. But not pumping.



Weird, when I do pump workouts I feel great but then it goes and it's just meh, whereas pushing heavy weight just feels badass, which stays for longer. 

Alternatively 5/3/1 big but boring provides the best of both worlds, to an extent


----------



## MikeH

Psionic said:


> You may have get used to free weights as i did understand you didnt use free weights till now did you?



I use free dumbbells and preloaded barbells, which only go up to 75 lbs and 60 lbs respectively. But today I'm switching gyms, thankfully. And I've used some free benches before.


----------



## Winspear

Just try and remember that pump is just lactic acid buildup and doesn't mean much at all for gains!


----------



## MikeH

I try to. And then I get a pump and I look huge.


----------



## MikeH

Double post. Oops.


----------



## geese_com

EtherealEntity said:


> Just try and remember that pump is just lactic acid buildup and doesn't mean much at all for gains!


----------



## MikeH

5/3/14:
Well, I couldn't resist going today because I didn't feel great about last night. Hit the new gym for the first time, felt really good about my lifts. Finally off of a smith machine, so I expect rapid gains now that I'm on free bars.

Squat: 3x5 @ 245 lbs.
Dead: 3x5 @ 255 lbs. (PR)
Bench: 3x5 @ 165 lbs.

My bench is definitely my weakest lift, but the last time I got on a free bar I was pushing 135 for 5x5, so I'm pretty happy with a 30 lb. gain. Also, I think next time I'm in, I'm going to test my 1RM on the big 3. Hoping for 275 squat, 285 dead, and 175 bench. Felt much better today and actually got a small pump, so I was happy.


----------



## UnderTheSign

MikeH said:


> 5/3/14:
> Well, I couldn't resist going today because I didn't feel great about last night. Hit the new gym for the first time, felt really good about my lifts. Finally off of a smith machine, so I expect rapid gains now that I'm on free bars.
> 
> Squat: 3x5 @ 245 lbs.
> Dead: 3x5 @ 255 lbs. (PR)
> Bench: 3x5 @ 165 lbs.
> 
> My bench is definitely my weakest lift, but the last time I got on a free bar I was pushing 135 for 5x5, so I'm pretty happy with a 30 lb. gain. Also, I think next time I'm in, I'm going to test my 1RM on the big 3. Hoping for 275 squat, 285 dead, and 175 bench. Felt much better today and actually got a small pump, so I was happy.


Just saying, lower reps won't always get you a pump... They'll get you hella strong though.


----------



## MikeH

If you read the last few posts in this thread, you'll see why I said that.


----------



## Winspear

Good work man! That's a good 5 rep squat - I find it quite hard to get my 5 rep squat in the region it should be compared to my 1 rep deads and bench.
I'm trying to pull my bench together too. Last two meets I've failed my third attempt too. I'm really hoping I can get 105kg by August. So far 95 is my best but I haven't hit it in a meet. Still getting the hang of the tight lats and trying to incorporate some leg drive.
I got some Adidas Powerlifts ordered that will hopefully arrive this week, as well as a new belt and some knee wraps 
So glad I have found my sport - it's making me train so much harder to have a goal to work towards. Going to do everything I can to break the 1000lb barrier (455kg) in August at 74kg. I have 1.5kg left to lose to make weight now too - I'm thinking it's going to be pretty hard because I'm quite lean now already. If my maths is right I'll have to hit 9% bodyfat to get under 74kg without losing muscle! I guess 74kg is no class for a 5'9er


----------



## MikeH

I really need my own belt. The gym I go to now has them, but they're Velcro. I'd rather be using a prong belt. Also, I've heard lifting shoes are a bit odd at first because of the angle of the sole. I want some, but I just spent $100 on some Nike Frees, so I'm forbidden.  my goal right now is to just break 700 lbs total. I'm at 665 now, so I don't think it'll be too long. Oh, and I just weighed myself and I'm at 156.4! I've never been this heavy. Looks like my 160 lb goal before vacation at the end of June is going to be hit!


----------



## gunshow86de

These are about as cheap as you can get for weightlifting shoes;

Wei-Rui | MAXbarbell LLC

They're pretty good quality too. Wei-Rui makes all the Rogue and Pendlay shoes. I have the VX3 and they've held up well so far. I don't think I can ever go back to squating in Chuck's.


----------



## Dommak89

MikeH said:


> I really need my own belt. The gym I go to now has them, but they're Velcro. I'd rather be using a prong belt. Also, I've heard lifting shoes are a bit odd at first because of the angle of the sole. I want some, but I just spent $100 on some Nike Frees, so I'm forbidden.  my goal right now is to just break 700 lbs total. I'm at 665 now, so I don't think it'll be too long. Oh, and I just weighed myself and I'm at 156.4! I've never been this heavy. Looks like my 160 lb goal before vacation at the end of June is going to be hit!



May I ask how tall you are?


----------



## MikeH

5'9"


----------



## MikeH

Deadlift 1RM PR today. 305 lbs.  Tried going for more, but my form started going to shit about midway through the pull, so I just let it go in fear of ruining my back.


----------



## gunshow86de

Tonight's workout had me on the very edge of puking.  

3, 3, 3+ week for Wendler

Today was squats. So, 275 x 3, 315 x 3, and 355 x 3+ (got 8 reps )

Boring but Big was 225 x 10 for 5 sets on 1 minute rest (the last 2 sets seemed way harder than the 355 )

Followed that up with some conditioning; 20 box jumps + 20 kettlebell swings with my 24 kg kettlebell for 5 rounds "non-stop*."

*non-stop of course meaning I had to take small breaks to avoid puking up my gains 

So good luck to me walking up the stairs at work tomorrow.


----------



## Fiction

Just did 10x100m sprints instead of my usual 8km run on my rest days, man that kicked my ass.. Felt the same as when I did a 14km run a few months back. Especially after legs/abs yesterday


----------



## soliloquy

STUPID STUPID STUPID ME!!!! i wanna kick my own ass atm. 
i was/am in a middle of a move from one city to the other, thus i've been neglecting gym for the last 3 months. i had cut my protein intake drastically as well. i decided to try out the gym again today (wed being my legs day). did a short warm up, went to deadlifts. i knew i'd be much weaker. 3 months ago i was easily doing 305 lbs with great form and 8 reps. today i decided to test the waters and start slow with 225. first and second set i cleared perfectly. third set, third rep i felt my back give with shooting pain down my spine. i had to drop the weights mid motion (mistake 2 i guess). i might have screwed up my back yet again. last time i was out for a year and a half. hopefully this time its not going to take that long. once i can move a bit more, i'll start doing planks and a bit of yoga to support my core. 

i hate being this weak, and i hate being this immobile, and in pain. stupid stupid stupid me!

mistake 1, miscalculated how weak i've gotten
mistake 2, bad form (though i was keeping an eye in the mirror, but maybe something wasn't right)
mistake 3, dropping the weights mid movement. 



ARG!!!


----------



## MikeH

That's awful, man. Sorry to hear. Whenever you come back from a hiatus, just always assume you've lost every bit of your gains and start from scratch. Start benching 135 and work your way up, faster or slower depending on how easy/hard it is. Same goes for everything else. Hope you heal up quick!

5/7/14
Quick leg smash day. Have some company coming over tonight, so I didn't have much time.

Squat: 3x5 @ 245
Calf Raises: 3x15 @ 120
Lay-down Ham Curl: 3x10 @ 110
Leg Extension: 3x10 @ 110
Split-stance Squat (machine): 3x5 @ 200

Probably going to take the day off tomorrow for recovery.


----------



## soliloquy

MikeH said:


> That's awful, man. Sorry to hear. Whenever you come back from a hiatus, just always assume you've lost every bit of your gains and start from scratch. Start benching 135 and work your way up, faster or slower depending on how easy/hard it is. Same goes for everything else. Hope you heal up quick!
> 
> 5/7/14
> Quick leg smash day. Have some company coming over tonight, so I didn't have much time.
> 
> Squat: 3x5 @ 245
> Calf Raises: 3x15 @ 120
> Lay-down Ham Curl: 3x10 @ 110
> Leg Extension: 3x10 @ 110
> Split-stance Squat (machine): 3x5 @ 200
> 
> Probably going to take the day off tomorrow for recovery.




Haha, chest has always been a weak point on my body. Proportionately speaking, if i could do 305 on deadlifts, and squats about 250+, bicep curls around 35, etc, my chest i could barely do 115. 125 easy on machines, but freeweights, forget it 

But yeah, ill try doing some yoga to recover as fast as i can. I hate this


----------



## MikeH

Good bench weight is considered between 50-60% of your deadlift. If that's your weakest area, I suggest upping your training to twice a week in that area, provided you're only doing it once. Bench is a very slow workout to progress on, but I always try to keep everything in stride with everything else.

Also, if anyone is interested, I will give hefty discounts to anyone on these boards for online training programs. 4-week phases, up to 16 weeks of training. PM me and we can work something out!


----------



## Ibanezsam4

gunshow86de said:


> Tonight's workout had me on the very edge of puking.
> 
> 3, 3, 3+ week for Wendler
> 
> Today was squats. So, 275 x 3, 315 x 3, and 355 x 3+ (got 8 reps )
> 
> Boring but Big was 225 x 10 for 5 sets on 1 minute rest (the last 2 sets seemed way harder than the 355 )
> 
> Followed that up with some conditioning; 20 box jumps + 20 kettlebell swings with my 24 kg kettlebell for 5 rounds "non-stop*."



i was inspired by your post so i did something like this today for legs.. those last two sets are murder. 

good news: i did 3 reps at 315! bad news: im still not happy with my depth... ugh


----------



## MikeH

Drop weight, drop dat ass.


----------



## Uncreative123

MikeH said:


> Good bench weight is considered between 50-60% of your deadlift. If that's your weakest area, I suggest upping your training to twice a week in that area, provided you're only doing it once. Bench is a very slow workout to progress on, but I always try to keep everything in stride with everything else.
> 
> Also, if anyone is interested, I will give hefty discounts to anyone on these boards for online training programs. 4-week phases, up to 16 weeks of training. PM me and we can work something out!





Are you kidding me? This is the point at which I will finally say something because this is downright irresponsible. Not that I think anyone would actually go for it, but you have no business training anyone- let alone charging someone for it. You've been lifting for how many **months**? and have no credentials. There is a difference between training someone and helping someone. 
I see newb/rookie post after newb/rookie post from you and I cannot imagine what is going through your head thinking you are qualified in any capacity to do something like this. I don't care if you're *planning* on going through some sort of certification program for this- why don't you cross that bridge once you actually get there and not count your chickens before they've hatched or whatever proverb you'd prefer to use here. 
The kinds of gains somebody makes right out of the gate are not sustainable. Anybody and everybody will make progress just dinking around at the gym without a clue the first few months. I know I did. I didn't even take any supplements for probably the first 6 months and I made progress like crazy. I didn't understand how incredibly important your diet is. Sure yeah, eat clean. Chicken, veggies, etc. blah blah. It means NOTHING to say it or write it. Diet is 80% of the way you look, feel, and perform at the gym, yet only about 2% of what I've seen you talk about. It is far and away the most overlooked aspect by all beginners. Everyone says they know and understand it's important...but do they really? It's the years after that that really count. Where it's a struggle to add 10lbs a year to your bench. You have no reason to be doing 5x5 or any other structured regiment. It's completely unnecessary and better utilized later when gains have STOPPED. 

Look at your 5/2 workout- you did ONE set for legs, ONE set for chest, and one/two sets for back. It doesn't even matter what utter non-sense that is because you're probably still making progress from that because you've only recently started. That should tell you everything. Look, congrats on making a lifestyle change and making physical progress. Seriously that's great. But keep it in perspective: the reality is you're still not there and your numbers are still really, really, low. I wouldn't expect you to have more than a novice understanding of training, diet, and supplementation at this point. Nobody should expect more than that. That's where you are and YOU need to be aware of that. Experience and knowledge comes with time. It comes with trial and error. You need to slow your role, player.


----------



## MikeH

I think being midway through my training certification with 100% success on all course materials thus far is enough to put someone on a basic training program. As far as diet, I don't talk about it because I feel like nobody gives a shit if I were to say "oh, I ate 4 eggs, two pieces of wheat toast, a banana, and green tea for breakfast, etc." Plus, I'm not exactly on a clean bulk right now, so I would not suggest anyone eat the shit I've been eating if they want to promote a healthy lifestyle. A 2200 calorie meal of burgers, pizza, fries, and a milkshake is not exactly something to brag about. I understand that experience is the ultimate trainer, but studying for hours upon hours about musculoskeletal development, the central nervous system, strength training, (you get the idea), I have enough of a grasp to get somebody on the right track. Maybe charging is not the best idea for me yet, so I'll go ahead and say that anyone who wants _guidance_, I can help you out for free. But just because I don't have years and years of gym time does not mean that I don't understand how to develop a plan for someone in the beginning/novice stages of training. 

As far as my routine for 5/2, I'm currently reading Mark Rippetoe's Starting Strength and that's exactly what it calls for, considering it's a powerlifting routine. There are two base routines that are alternated between on a 3-day or 4-day split. Exercise A: squat, OHP, bent barbell row, any assistance work you want to add. Exercise B: squat, bench, deadlift, assistance work. If there's anyone I trust, it's one of the most prominent figures in the powerlifting community who has been doing this since before I was born.


----------



## Ibanezsam4

not to dog pile on you here bud, but if you want to do this for a living you're gonna run into the problem of people not taking you super seriously as the dude with several years under his/her belt. i have a friend who's working at a YMCA who has your certification, plus a 4 year degree in kinesiology and he has to climb the same way as any other personal trainer. 

it takes time, and lots of one-on-one with potential clients while working at a reputable place. My advice would be to train for competition (which also takes time) and use that as a way to advertise. 

back on topic! 

i get to parallel with my squats even with heavy weight.. i just want to dip lower than that... i have a dream where the backs of my things are touching my calves... yeah


----------



## MikeH

Currently training for my first PL meet.


----------



## Ibanezsam4

question for everyone... how much to guys spread your feet out when squating?

i dont life with shoes on and so the whole "drive the weight into your heels" thing doesnt quite work for me. i guess my real question is: am i losing any benefits by pointing my toes outwards from my knees for better support?


----------



## MikeH

I've always read and always stood at a 35-40 degree angle out with my feet, legs about shoulder-width, if not slightly wider.


----------



## gunshow86de

Ibanezsam4 said:


> question for everyone... how much to guys spread your feet out when squating?
> 
> i dont life with shoes on and so the whole "drive the weight into your heels" thing doesnt quite work for me. i guess my real question is: am i losing any benefits by pointing my toes outwards from my knees for better support?



It's really up to the individual and how your "leverages" work. The key is to find a position and stance width that lets you hit depth comfortably and generate torque when you track your knees out. For me, that is just slightly less than around 40 degrees (feet facing forward/parallel being 0 degrees). It's something you should "play around" with and find what works for you.

One extreme example. Completely duck-footed, but it works for him:


Malanichev also turns out pretty far, and he's the best squatter of all-time*.



*not gonna qualify that with arguably or raw-only, because geared/multiply lifting is fvcking retarded and I'm glad it's starting to die out


----------



## Winspear

Ibanezsam4 said:


> question for everyone... how much to guys spread your feet out when squating?
> 
> i dont life with shoes on and so the whole "drive the weight into your heels" thing doesnt quite work for me. i guess my real question is: am i losing any benefits by pointing my toes outwards from my knees for better support?





MikeH said:


> I've always read and always stood at a 35-40 degree angle out with my feet, legs about shoulder-width, if not slightly wider.



Ditto. I find standing wider and turning the feet out makes it possible to push through the heels (in socks - trying my oly shoes for the first time today). Doing a bodyweight squat, as I push my knees outwards I feel the weight roll onto the outsides of my feet and the heels.


----------



## gunshow86de

^

I recently switched to Oly-shoes too. My advice would be to take your time. I "broke them in" on a deload week. I've actually had to make quite a few changes to my squat to work optimally with the shoes (seating the bar lower, hands about a 1/2" closer together, slightly more narrow stance). 

Now that I've adjusted, I won't be going back to Chucks. Definitely feel much stronger/confident in my squats, and I have the new PR's to back up that feeling.


----------



## Defi

Olympic shoes are magic for squatting. But nothing beats barefoot for deadlifting. Almost makes me want to get back into lifting...


----------



## UnderTheSign

gunshow86de said:


> ^
> 
> I recently switched to Oly-shoes too. My advice would be to take your time. I "broke them in" on a deload week. I've actually had to make quite a few changes to my squat to work optimally with the shoes (seating the bar lower, hands about a 1/2" closer together, slightly more narrow stance).
> 
> Now that I've adjusted, I won't be going back to Chucks. Definitely feel much stronger/confident in my squats, and I have the new PR's to back up that feeling.


Speaking of bar height, where do you guys rest the bar on your back? I feel like I carry it pretty high, upper edge of my shoulder blades and upper rear delts, like my marks show:






Looking at internet diagrams though, this still seems to count as a low bar positioning? I'd say I'm somewhere in the middle...


----------



## Winspear

I have it somewhere in the middle too. Want to work on getting it lower but it's low enough to not mess with the 'low bar' form. 

Tried the oly shoes just now. Incredibly solid. Felt a lot more drive through the heel and outer foot! To test depth, just went with what felt good and had a friend film some reps - none of these are quite to depth but that extra stability is going to translate well when I go a bit deeper for sure. Hitting 3x3 with 135kg on Monday so we'll see how that goes!
Vid: 20140509_190421

I love deadlifting barefoot too, but I picked up these and tried those today too. WEIGHTLIFTING SHOES
Same barefoot feel but more stable (and looks badass!) Pulled 147.5kg for 4 sets of 5 today with ease. Doing sets of 8 Monday..Ugh


----------



## tranqx

Hey dudes, super glad this thread exists on here. Been lifting for the last two years; prior I was always the skinniest of all my friends (6'4" and 160lbs, can you say string bean?). Breakups are usually a good source of motivation to get ripped up and the like... I've put on a solid 40 pounds since then. I just now started doing meal prep! Trying to lower my body fat - when you're on the cusp of just being below 10% you don't drop any farther unless you're really eating well. What are some of your guys favorite meals to prepare for the week?


----------



## Ibanezsam4

gunshow86de said:


> It's really up to the individual and how your "leverages" work. The key is to find a position and stance width that lets you hit depth comfortably and generate torque when you track your knees out. For me, that is just slightly less than around 40 degrees (feet facing forward/parallel being 0 degrees). It's something you should "play around" with and find what works for you.
> 
> One extreme example. Completely duck-footed, but it works for him:
> 
> 
> Malanichev also turns out pretty far, and he's the best squatter of all-time*.
> 
> 
> 
> *not gonna qualify that with arguably or raw-only, because geared/multiply lifting is fvcking retarded and I'm glad it's starting to die out


 

thanks for posting these! watching their form and foot position makes me feel more confident knowing im not off track... also not that far off the depth they hit... pretty good confidence builder right there


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## gunshow86de

3-3-3 week of Wendler today

This is my last set of deads, 390 for 5 reps, no belt or straps



Need to up my conditioning so I can "shed my winter coat." Lookin' pudgy! 

Also blasting 3-6 while wearing my Metal Blade tank.


----------



## Valennic

I've been lifting casually for about 6 months, seen impressive gains in myself both aesthetically and strength wise, but time is rarely on my side when it comes to doing what I want in there.

I work out with a buddy, big dude, knows his shit, but he doesn't know cutting as he's never really done it. Current workout goal is to shred the fat away a bit, get a bit tighter, and then slowly pack on some muscle. I don't want to be massive, just tighter, bit bigger. Question for you guys is can a heavier lifting regiment, IE, what we do varies wildly, but the formula stays the same, warmup at 10, then either three or four sets of 6-8, 10-12, or 12-15 depending on the exercise, but can it be used effectively in a cutting stage? Or is it being pretty counterproductive?

Sorry if that seems disjointed. I find myself writing things out so rarely anymore that I find it difficult to arrange my thoughts


----------



## gunshow86de

Whether you're training for hypertrophy or strength, cutting has more to do with your diet than anything. Decreasing your rest time between sets and adding cardio are useful too, but those won't help if you're still eating a surplus of calories (ie bulking). 

I wouldn't worry about being "massive." Too many people think they'll blow up like an IFBB pro after a few months in the gym. The reality is that pro (and a lot of amateur) bodybuilders' physiques are the results of; their genetics, years and years of training, years and years of eating for mass, and drugs (testosterone, growth hormone, and even using insulin). 

If you're truly natural, I wouldn't worry about looking like a bulky bodybuilder any time soon (if ever).


----------



## SoItGoesRVA

Anyone have some tips for rehabbing an IT band? My right one has been a bit tight towards the hip for going on a month now. I keep rolling it out and stretching it, but I'm still getting a bit of discomfort. Any ideas?


----------



## Winspear

gunshow86de said:


> Whether you're training for hypertrophy or strength, cutting has more to do with your diet than anything. Decreasing your rest time between sets and adding cardio are useful too, but those won't help if you're still eating a surplus of calories (ie bulking).
> 
> I wouldn't worry about being "massive." Too many people think they'll blow up like an IFBB pro after a few months in the gym. The reality is that pro (and a lot of amateur) bodybuilders' physiques are the results of; their genetics, years and years of training, years and years of eating for mass, and drugs (testosterone, growth hormone, and even using insulin).
> 
> If you're truly natural, I wouldn't worry about looking like a bulky bodybuilder any time soon (if ever).



Yeah, absolutely this. Just count your calories and get a little bit under maintenance. Enough to lose a couple lb a week at most. Get enough protein and keep lifting and you wont lose muscle.


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## MikeH

I haven't been to the gym in 3 days. I'm going crazy. About to go squat my legs off today.


----------



## MikeH

On that note, 285 lb squat PR. Yee.


----------



## Uncreative123

SoItGoesRVA said:


> Anyone have some tips for rehabbing an IT band? My right one has been a bit tight towards the hip for going on a month now. I keep rolling it out and stretching it, but I'm still getting a bit of discomfort. Any ideas?




You can read this: T NATION | Winning the IT Band War


I just foam roll it out. There's a specific IT band stretch that works really well too, I can't remember if it's in that article though. Didn't see a pic of it, only skimmed it. Basically just lying down on your back and crossing one knee over the other and bringing it slowly into your chest.


As far as squats go- feet turned out will activate your glutes better and in most cases allow you to squat more. Feet closer together and straight ahead to better hit the outer quad sweep.


----------



## Uncreative123

MikeH said:


> I think being midway through my training certification with 100% success on all course materials thus far is enough to put someone on a basic training program. As far as diet, I don't talk about it because I feel like nobody gives a shit if I were to say "oh, I ate 4 eggs, two pieces of wheat toast, a banana, and green tea for breakfast, etc." Plus, I'm not exactly on a clean bulk right now, so I would not suggest anyone eat the shit I've been eating if they want to promote a healthy lifestyle. A 2200 calorie meal of burgers, pizza, fries, and a milkshake is not exactly something to brag about. I understand that experience is the ultimate trainer, but studying for hours upon hours about musculoskeletal development, the central nervous system, strength training, (you get the idea), I have enough of a grasp to get somebody on the right track. Maybe charging is not the best idea for me yet, so I'll go ahead and say that anyone who wants _guidance_, I can help you out for free. But just because I don't have years and years of gym time does not mean that I don't understand how to develop a plan for someone in the beginning/novice stages of training.
> 
> As far as my routine for 5/2, I'm currently reading Mark Rippetoe's Starting Strength and that's exactly what it calls for, considering it's a powerlifting routine. There are two base routines that are alternated between on a 3-day or 4-day split. Exercise A: squat, OHP, bent barbell row, any assistance work you want to add. Exercise B: squat, bench, deadlift, assistance work. If there's anyone I trust, it's one of the most prominent figures in the powerlifting community who has been doing this since before I was born.




You inadvertently proved my point- you don't understand diet or its importance. (Ref my "diet is 80% of everything" comment) If lifting is only 20%, assuming you know everything there is to know, then that still leaves a substantial amount of ground to cover. Dialing in a diet is comparable to dialing in an amp- but I would say far more time consuming and more difficult to figure out. Everyone burns calories at a different rate and has a different resting metabolic rate- which isn't necessarily the same every day, people respond differently to different types of proteins, carbs, and fats, and it takes a lot of time to figure out what your body needs to meet your goals. The list goes on and on. Not to mention what a pain in the ass food prep is. If you don't prep your meals- you are 100% setting yourself up for failure. Meal prep is everything and I cannot stress that enough. When people drop the ball on that, that's when they make poor dietary decisions...always. Only once you figure out your own shit should you even attempt to try and do it for someone else and have them PAY for it. 


Also, honestly, most 'clientele' in the market for this sort of thing are not trying to look like a fat-pud power lifter. They start out for aesthetic reasons. It's absolutely true. They just want to look better. I went through my PL phase and my BB phase. After a few years of testing the waters I realized power lifting was not in the cards. Never going to bench 600 lbs, never going to squat 700 lbs. Doesn't bother me. The one thing I knew for sure was that I never wanted to look like one since most (not all) most of them look kind of out of shape. Just bulky and boxy. 


The best piece of advice, or story I can share with everyone, is that when I first started getting lean, contest lean, for the first time in my life, I got more attention from girls (and guys- no homo) than ever before in my life. Far and away. Never before when I went out with friends did I have girls coming up to me at bars asking for MY number. I work in a big club with 50+ strippers every night on the weekend and when they knew I didn't have a girlfriend, it was out of control- LOL. I'm with the one I love now and thankfully the other girls will leave me alone now for the most part. I have felt like a piece of meat at times. I don't mean it in a braggy way, I mean it like, I really don't like girls coming up to me and just putting their hands all over me. I'm just not that guy (unless maybe I'm single, lol). Anyway, tangent.

When you're lean and in shape girls pick up on it. I think it has a lot to do with the fact that you walk around with more confidence and better posture. I mean I was wearing longsleeve shirts, not trying to show off or garner attention or anything. It might sound shallow, but it opens up a whole new world to you and that should be about all the motivation you need. It is SO easy to do...as long as you have the will power and *self-control* to not shove donuts and pizza down your gullet every day. Nothing worth having ever comes easy, but this is close. I'm 4 weeks out from my next show and this was a few days ago. I don't have to starve myself. I eat foods I enjoy and for the most part I'm not totally miserable. I'm only now starting to do cardio and thermos too. The next few weeks will be rough because I have A LOT of ground to cover. It's up to you:


----------



## The Analyst

Uncreative123 said:


> You have no reason to be doing 5x5 or any other structured regiment. It's completely unnecessary and better utilized later when gains have STOPPED.



I disagree. A novice looking to gain strength fast should use a 5x5 program, especially if you want to get into power lifting. Something like Stronglifts or Jason Blaha's novice program would be perfect for Mike right now.


----------



## Winspear

tranqx said:


> Hey dudes, super glad this thread exists on here. Been lifting for the last two years; prior I was always the skinniest of all my friends (6'4" and 160lbs, can you say string bean?). Breakups are usually a good source of motivation to get ripped up and the like... I've put on a solid 40 pounds since then. I just now started doing meal prep! Trying to lower my body fat - when you're on the cusp of just being below 10% you don't drop any farther unless you're really eating well. What are some of your guys favorite meals to prepare for the week?



I'm just getting into some more interesting food at the moment. Mainly healthy 'junk' food  Still sticking to basic chicken and rice dinners etc with no cal seasonings, chilli powder etc, but I've bought a bunch of ingredients this week to try out various yummy snacks like protein icecream, brownies, oat cookies etc. I'll post any success!

Hit 3x3s @ 91% for the first time today with a 135kg squat and 87.5kg bench - got all the reps  Very taxing but much nicer than the 4x5s at 85-88% that I was doing previously, it's over SO much quicker haha.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

Defi said:


> But nothing beats barefoot for deadlifting...




Except wrestling shoes.

All the benefits of barefoot,
+amazing ankle support (if you choose to tie them all the way up tightly)
+ you don't get your feet/socks dirty .


----------



## Winspear

^ Yup used the ones I linked to a few times now. Super tight, can barely get them off without pulling at the laces tons haha. Awesome shoes.


----------



## MikeH

Uncreative123 said:


> You inadvertently proved my point- you don't understand diet or its importance. (Ref my "diet is 80% of everything" comment) If lifting is only 20%, assuming you know everything there is to know, then that still leaves a substantial amount of ground to cover. Dialing in a diet is comparable to dialing in an amp- but I would say far more time consuming and more difficult to figure out. Everyone burns calories at a different rate and has a different resting metabolic rate- which isn't necessarily the same every day, people respond differently to different types of proteins, carbs, and fats, and it takes a lot of time to figure out what your body needs to meet your goals. The list goes on and on. Not to mention what a pain in the ass food prep is. If you don't prep your meals- you are 100% setting yourself up for failure. Meal prep is everything and I cannot stress that enough. When people drop the ball on that, that's when they make poor dietary decisions...always. Only once you figure out your own shit should you even attempt to try and do it for someone else and have them PAY for it.
> 
> 
> Also, honestly, most 'clientele' in the market for this sort of thing are not trying to look like a fat-pud power lifter. They start out for aesthetic reasons. It's absolutely true. They just want to look better. I went through my PL phase and my BB phase. After a few years of testing the waters I realized power lifting was not in the cards. Never going to bench 600 lbs, never going to squat 700 lbs. Doesn't bother me. The one thing I knew for sure was that I never wanted to look like one since most (not all) most of them look kind of out of shape. Just bulky and boxy.



That's totally fine, but don't discredit me because we have different goals. You're a bodybuilder, I'm a powerlifter. Ask any powerlifter for dietary recommendations and the answer will be "Eat everything in sight". I have knowledge of clean eating and would never recommend a client do what I'm doing for nutrition, unless they were going for the same thing I am. I really respect your knowledge, but that does not mean I don't know what I'm saying. I'm 350 pages into my training book, and I'm on Elite FTS and the Animal Pak forums more than I'm on here anymore. I've done research and continue to do it extensively every day. I've still got a ways to go, but I'm not an idiot.


----------



## icos211

I worked at my TKD studio for the first time again this summer. It was also leg day, so I didn't want to do it right before I would have to spend all day kicking, so I did it after I spent all day kicking. Boy was that a terrible decision.

My squat dropped from 3x7 at 275 to 3x7 at 215. SO sad, plus I saw some old friends in there, and I was putting up those wimpy ass numbers. I was so tired I had to bail after like 45 minutes. Plus, I think I exacerbated a hamstring pull that I've been fighting, and I took so many shots to my left shin/calf that I can barely put weight on it. Now aesthetically, my legs are literally as thick as my body, and my calves are on the upper end of grapefruits(both from years and years of TKD, lifting my own fat ass), so I could probably skip legs for the next year and still be better off than the bros with toothpicks coming out of their shoes that I'm constantly surrounded by, and still have some humongoid hams. But with such a bitch ass, cop out workout as I did tonight, I just FEEL sad, small, and dirty. Like I basically just skipped leg day...


----------



## Ibanezsam4

Decided to try out the Madcow 5x5 starting out this week.. this is going to be my first regimented workout plan since i started lifting 4 years ago. Should be cool, i'll post my results in a few weeks to see if i've gotten past my PRs


----------



## MikeH

5/13/14:
Finally got some video! There's descriptions of how I thought I did on each lift. Feel free to critique further!

Squat - Instagram
Deadlift - Instagram
Bench Press - Instagram

As far as the workout tonight:
Squat: 1x10 @ 135, 1x5 @ 200, 3x5 @ 250
Deadlift: 1x2 @ 245.25, 1x5 @ 265, 1x1 @ 333 (miss. I got too confident haha)
Bench: 1x5 @ 135, 2x5 @ 155, 1x3 @ 165, 1x2 @ 175 (previous PR), 1x1 @ 185 (PR!)
Chain Dips: 1x12, 1x8, 1x3 @ 2-Chainz (70 lbs.)
Incline (45º) Dumbbell Chest Press: 3x8 @ 45 (each arm)
Tricep Rope Pull-down: 3x10 @ 80
Close-grip Low Row: 3x10 @ 120

Was fairly exhausted starting off, so I'm really surprised I got in as much as I did. I did legs a couple of days ago, so I didn't want to do anymore accessory work for them. Felt pretty well done for after I finished.


----------



## gunshow86de

^

Okay, I'm gonna be brutally honest with you (since you have mentioned you want to start competing).

Squats - You did not hit depth on any of the reps in the video. On a positive note, your upper body posture looked good. 

Deadlift - Your hips are shooting up too quickly (especially that first rep). Remember the first movement is to push up (or stand up) with your legs, then you push the hips through as the bar is around knee level (depending on limb length, you should get a natural "feel" for when it's time to push the hips through)

Bench - I would need to see a full body video to properly evaluate, but from what I can see you did not look tight enough in the upper back and the bar did not touch your chest. If you want to compete I would recommend pause reps on bench. The judges _will_ make you wait for the press command, and if you aren't used to having that bar at a dead-stop on your chest it will be so much more difficult. 


Anyway, here is my video. This is the 1+ set on squats, I got 375 lbs for 6 (ish) reps. Reps 1 and 5 were questionable depth. Not the best angle for judging depth, I'll hit a straight on side profile next time. 



Jamming that new Misery Index!


----------



## TRENCHLORD

On the DL; Highly suggest ditching the belt for now because I've always thought it negatively influenced the learning of proper form for most starters.
That upper-back needs more of an upward pitch at the bottom.
Ditch belt, suck in the abs, and pre-flex the chest.
Tighten everything up hard before starting the pull, to the point that the bar is already flexing before you even lift it.

Bench; See how your chest rises as you drive the weight up.
Before even un-racking the bar you need to be set, and remain in a fixed position throughout the entire motion.
Once again I'll suggest to suck in the gut a bit and go ahead and get the chest in a fully expanded position before starting, and stay locked like that.
Keeping the gut sucked-in really helps prevent the dreaded back hyper-arch.

I'll watch the squat later tonight.


----------



## MikeH

Thanks, guys. I'm wanting honesty, so I don't feel ashamed. I really appreciate the tips.


----------



## gunshow86de

^

On the bench, I agree with Trench. It looks like you may have rushed your setup. Do not even think about unracking until you are "locked-in." 

Yes another Animal video. But this is a good setup (you do not have to mimic him exactly, everyone will be different but the principles are the same).


----------



## JeffFromMtl

So dudes, I need some advice. I was doing the stronglifts 5x5 thing for a while, and although I wasn't having much of a problem upping my weight every workout, I wasn't putting on any weight or mass, myself. I probably wasn't eating or sleeping enough, because I was going through the end of my semester and was beyond broke. Eventually, I ended up getting sick for 3 weeks, and haven't been to the gym in almost a month now.

Given that, I was wondering if you guys know of any other workout plans that'd be better for making gains/putting on weight, since now would be a good time for me to start over, as I lost about 7 or 8 lbs while I was sick. I could stick with 5x5 and now that I'm done school, I'll be working full-time so I have the money for a better diet and a more regular schedule to work workouts and sleep into, but was curious if there are any plans that are better for starting out with. Just looking for some input. Thanks!


----------



## MikeH

I now have to go back in the morning and at least hit one set of each correctly.  I see what I need to fix and now I really want to fix it.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

MikeH said:


> Thanks, guys. I'm wanting honesty, so I don't feel ashamed. I really appreciate the tips.


 
Yeah we've all been there .

When I first started the DL my form was not really bad, but I would try to jerk the weight off the ground from an almost relaxed position .

Took me a few times getting incredibly stiff lower-back the next day to finally seek a solution, which I found was to pre-tighten enough so that my legs didn't straighten out ahead of time.


----------



## gunshow86de

Yeah, I still have to go through all of my mental ques every single set. I have reps/sets where the form is off, but those are becoming increasingly infrequent. It takes practice just like anything else. Once you start hitting the right groove, you feel it instantly (and when you're off too). 



To Jeff, not sure what your experience level is, but 5x5 Stronglifts is great for novice to intermediate lifters. If you're looking to add on size too, Wendler 5-3-1 with the Boring but Big is a great mix of strength and hypertrophy training (yes, I sound like a broken record talking about Wendler ). 

Wendler 5/3/1 Introduction - T NATION | How to Build Pure Strength

I've been reading up on the Cube method. It seems like a nice blend of strength and hypertrophy training too. Contemplating making the switch after another cycle or two of Wendler, just to keep things interesting. 

Cube Method => http://storage.skynet-solutions.net/muscle-research.com/the_cube_method.pdf


----------



## Ibanezsam4

MikeH said:


> 5/13/14:
> Finally got some video! There's descriptions of how I thought I did on each lift. Feel free to critique further!
> 
> Squat - Instagram
> Deadlift - Instagram
> Bench Press - Instagram
> 
> As far as the workout tonight:
> Squat: 1x10 @ 135, 1x5 @ 200, 3x5 @ 250
> Deadlift: 1x2 @ 245.25, 1x5 @ 265, 1x1 @ 333 (miss. I got too confident haha)
> Bench: 1x5 @ 135, 2x5 @ 155, 1x3 @ 165, 1x2 @ 175 (previous PR), 1x1 @ 185 (PR!)
> Chain Dips: 1x12, 1x8, 1x3 @ 2-Chainz (70 lbs.)
> Incline (45º) Dumbbell Chest Press: 3x8 @ 45 (each arm)
> Tricep Rope Pull-down: 3x10 @ 80
> Close-grip Low Row: 3x10 @ 120
> 
> Was fairly exhausted starting off, so I'm really surprised I got in as much as I did. I did legs a couple of days ago, so I didn't want to do anymore accessory work for them. Felt pretty well done for after I finished.



first off, remove any assisting equipment (belt, straps etc.) you are not lifting nearly enough weight to justify using them. u need to learn you can replicate (for now) the same support by using your diaphragm. 

second, technique (obvi). remove more weight if necessary, you're still at a point where gains come quickly (gigity) and you're only setting yourself back 2-3 weeks max. right now muscle memory is necessary to avoid injury. 

remember this isn't a race, PRs happen when they happen so long as you're dedicated. patience is key, especially considering your goals of strength competing are still a little ways off


----------



## JeffFromMtl

gunshow86de said:


> To Jeff, not sure what your experience level is, but 5x5 Stronglifts is great for novice to intermediate lifters. If you're looking to add on size too, Wendler 5-3-1 with the Boring but Big is a great mix of strength and hypertrophy training (yes, I sound like a broken record talking about Wendler ).
> 
> Wendler 5/3/1 Introduction - T NATION | How to Build Pure Strength
> 
> I've been reading up on the Cube method. It seems like a nice blend of strength and hypertrophy training too. Contemplating making the switch after another cycle or two of Wendler, just to keep things interesting.
> 
> Cube Method => http://storage.skynet-solutions.net/muscle-research.com/the_cube_method.pdf



Thanks for the suggestions man, I'll check them out. I really don't have much experience at all. I just went with stronglifts since that's what my roommate does for strength cuz he's a boxer and rugby player, but I don't think I gained any weight doing that whatsoever (and as far as I know, just starting out, putting on weight should be a breeze). I definitely want to add on size. I'm 5'11" and after getting sick and losing a few lbs, I'm just under 150 lbs and stringy as hell. Ideally, I'd like to put on weight, but stay as lean as I am now.


----------



## Ibanezsam4

JeffFromMtl said:


> Thanks for the suggestions man, I'll check them out. I really don't have much experience at all. I just went with stronglifts since that's what my roommate does for strength cuz he's a boxer and rugby player, but I don't think I gained any weight doing that whatsoever (and as far as I know, just starting out, putting on weight should be a breeze). I definitely want to add on size. I'm 5'11" and after getting sick and losing a few lbs, I'm just under 150 lbs and stringy as hell. Ideally, I'd like to put on weight, but stay as lean as I am now.



hmmmm... one thing that helped me was just increasing my calories. i did two protein shakes a day, and after a workout, i put in Now Fitness' carb gainer.. i used to lift for years without the diet to back me up.. suddenly i eat more (cleanish) i shot up 10lbs in like a month and a half. 

not saying my experiences are the same for everyone but uncreative hit the nail on the head when he said diet is 80% of the game


----------



## MikeH

Went in to hit one more set this morning. Any better?
Instagram


----------



## Ibanezsam4

MikeH said:


> Went in to hit one more set this morning. Any better?
> Instagram



just go lighter. you need to trust your body to handle the weight and "sink" into the squat. you cant do that when going too heavy.


----------



## Winspear

Yeah for sure - I'd say another 50kg needs to come off to learn the feeling confidently - I recommend pause squats. Do some bodyweight squats with your arms out infront and get as low as you can go - You don't need to squat _that_ low - but it's a good learner. Consciously push the knees out too - if you're deep, you'll REALLY feel that shit in your groin.

With the bench, yeah, lat tightness. I'm just learning that now myself. 

Deadlifts, try the starting queue that I _think_ I learned from Rippetoe. Walk up to the bar. Stand how wide you want. Get it halfway over your feet. Bend your knees until your shins touch it. Now you have to get your hands to it - bring the hips and ass down and sit right into it. I find that with your shins touching the bar, and your chest up and arms straight, there's no way to get this wrong. You will end up set up in a good deep position. Look at the very first frame of the video before pressing play. If your chest was up, you would not be able to reach the bar, and your hips would have to come down.


----------



## Winspear

JeffFromMtl said:


> Thanks for the suggestions man, I'll check them out. I really don't have much experience at all. I just went with stronglifts since that's what my roommate does for strength cuz he's a boxer and rugby player, but I don't think I gained any weight doing that whatsoever (and as far as I know, just starting out, putting on weight should be a breeze). I definitely want to add on size. I'm 5'11" and after getting sick and losing a few lbs, I'm just under 150 lbs and stringy as hell. Ideally, I'd like to put on weight, but stay as lean as I am now.



The routine really has nothing to do with gaining weight. Gaining _weight_ is inevitable if you eat enough calories to go over whatever your body uses daily. Don't train right/hard and that weight will be fat instead of muscle, however. Train right + hard but eat too much over, and you'll put on some fat too along with muscle. Get on a good routine - stronglifts is a great start to build a solid foundation. Track your calories every day while maintaining this level of exercise. Weigh yourself every morning (Expect fluctuations day to day - that's why you weight every day and look at it over time). I recommend starting at 2300 calories yourself. Eat that every day for 2 weeks while following a routine strictly. Lost weight? You're way under maintenance calories. Stayed the same? Perfect. You know your maintenance - add a few hundred to build up. Gained more than 5lbs in 2 weeks? Cut it back a little else you'll build up some fat pretty fast.


----------



## Winspear

Filmed my 3x3 squat set at 135kg for a depth check in my new shoes. Mike - this is the_ minimum_ depth you want to aim for in training. None of these reps would have passed in competition, though. _Maybe_ the first rep if one of the side judges was very lenient, but most likely not. 

Are my knees meant to come so far forward in these shoes?! Makes sense given the heel elevation but I was surprised to see it given how strict I've been with keeping them back when barefoot.
http://www.mediafire.com/watch/bypdb8gzvnkk9sk/VID-20140512-WA0000.mp4


----------



## MikeH

I easily go ATG with 135 lbs, so I guess that should be my starting point, then work my way up to a weight I can still confidently use.


----------



## Fiction

This is the first time I've actually given eating at an excess a proper go, trying to hit 3000 calories a day, watching what I eat, aiming for unsaturated fats, complex carbs and the like. I've been hitting between 150-200g protein, and I'm making excellent improvements, but I have to say, holy shit, the shit & any other wind that may be passed, it's deadly


----------



## TaP

Yeah, I lift BRO. For the past 5 years...


----------



## MikeH

Fiction said:


> This is the first time I've actually given eating at an excess a proper go, trying to hit 3000 calories a day, watching what I eat, aiming for unsaturated fats, complex carbs and the like. I've been hitting between 150-200g protein, and I'm making excellent improvements, but I have to say, holy shit, the shit & any other wind that may be passed, it's deadly



My protein farts can clear a large hall.


----------



## Maniacal

The only reason I consume eggs and protein shakes are for the improved power and stench of my farts.


----------



## MikeH

So, I've decided that after I finish these last 3 weeks of Starting Strength, I'm going to take on 6-8 weeks of Stronglifts 5x5. After completing that, I'm going to attempt Smolov Squat for 13 weeks. I have two buddies who are on it and they say it's a fucking nightmare, but in the best way possible. Bring on the quads.


----------



## Winspear

Damn that Smolov does look like hell haha!

Finished week 3 of my program today. Triples on deadlifts was actually not bad at all - they seem to be getting stronger faster than the program intends. Squats and bench working out just right, still. 4 sets of 8 on squats for the first time ever today - don't think I've ever done more than 3 or 4 x 6 before. Absolute hell when using a weight that ends up exerting you as much as the 1RM!


----------



## MikeH

5/17/14:
After some heavy critique on those videos above (which was much needed), I got together with a group of guys from the Animal Pak forums at Colerain Barbell. Great group of guys and I hope to train with them pretty frequently. Extremely welcoming and very helpful when it came to fixing my form and depth. So helpful, in fact, that I hit a legitimate squat PR at 301 lbs.

Squat: 1x8 @ 135, 1x5/1x3 @ 216, 1x3 @ 251, 1x1 @ 301 (PR)
DL ( 2.75" deficit): 1x8 @ bar, 1x8 @ 135, 1x5 @ 225, 2x4 @ 285
Leg Press: 1x15 @ 90, 1x15 @ 180, 3x15 @ 230
Leg Extension: 5x15 @ 75
Ham Curl: 5x15 @ 110

Felt extremely good to lift with these dudes, and I can see that my progress is going to skyrocket if I continue to lift with them. Hopefully I'm confident enough to compete by year's end.


----------



## Winspear

Awesome dude good work! Lifting with experienced lifters is awesome indeed - making some crazy gains with the motivation


----------



## MikeH

I wanted to try to pull a DL PR, but I was pretty gassed. I think I will next time. Pulling 20 lbs below my previous PR at a deficit for reps makes me pretty confident I can do it. I'll also be looking for a bench PR next time.


----------



## UnderTheSign

The animal forum guys are all solid dudes. Don't log in a lot anymore but used to! Who did you lift with?


----------



## MikeH

RedlegDbell (Steve Seifert), Luke Starnes, Drake Eaton, and another guy named Mike, whose last name I can't remember.


----------



## UnattendedGolfcart

I'm home for the summer for 3 months and I'm going to try to make some gains all over my body. I don't have much of a set plan right now, but I'm slender so I'm going to get back into my routine that I had before I left college.

Mon- Tris/Chest, Tues- Bis/Back, Wed-Rest, Thurs- Legs, Fri-Shoulders

I'm going to hit abs two days a week, and probably do cardio two days a week. As I get going I'll keep a log of what I do and what my goals become for certain exercises and make changes/specifications from there.


----------



## MikeH

5/19/14:
"I, son of perdition. From sheer nothingness transgressed. Unto the highest self; to utmost freedom; to explore the starry nature of my rage."

I was filled with hunger this morning. I needed to be under the iron. Which, unfortunately made me focus too much on my squat and not enough on my OHP and Barbell row. Still got them in, but there was less concentration. Regardless, my squat form improved tenfold. Here's video evidence:
Instagram

Today's workout:
Squat: 1x10 @ bar, 1x5 @ 135, 1x5 @ 185, 1x3 @ 205, 3x5 @ 225
OHP: 1x5 @ 95, 2x5 @ 110
Barbell Row: 3x5 @ 110
Wide-grip Pull-up: 3x Failure (8,6,3)
Dumbbell Shoulder Press (sitting): 3x8 @ 45 lbs each arm


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## Winspear

Solid!!


----------



## Ibanezsam4

all the gains being posted makes me jealous. on madcow i wont hit PRs for another three weeks


----------



## Winspear

Just wanted to share a particularly delicious protein shake recipe!

-200ml full fat milk
-100ml almond milk
-25g almond butter
-30g oats
-20g greek yoghurt
-3 ice cubes
-One banana (frozen optional for extra creaminess)
-Teaspoon of ginger
-60g of vanilla whey protein

Fits (just) in one standard shaker bottle. 800 calories, 65g of protein and carbs, 31g of fat. 26g of sugars mostly from the banana and milk


----------



## MikeH

I ordered 12 lbs. of mass gainer on Friday. Should be here tomorrow or Wednesday. 1300 calories, 55g protein, 252g carbs, 8g fat. And that's without whole milk, which is what I use with all of my shakes. BRING THE GAINZ!


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## Winspear

I never really looked into mass gainers - just bought the cheap wheys and add my own bananas, oats etc. At the amount of scoops those servings are I found it worked out so expensive! 
But yes, I used to do some more monstrous shakes with double the amount of milk etc coming in over 1000 - so convenient being able to get all those cals in a few minutes! 

Todays workout went great. I know I've never really seriously strength trained before so it can be expected, but I'm still amazed/incredibly excited that on week 4 of this program I'm 3x3ing 94% of what was my 1RM just over a month ago...damn. Satisfying.


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## MikeH

I've had some expensive ones, but the stuff I just bought was just under $40 for 12 lbs. It's called Dymatize Super Mass.


----------



## Ibanezsam4

EtherealEntity said:


> I never really looked into mass gainers - just bought the cheap wheys and add my own bananas, oats etc. At the amount of scoops those servings are I found it worked out so expensive!
> But yes, I used to do some more monstrous shakes with double the amount of milk etc coming in over 1000 - so convenient being able to get all those cals in a few minutes!



they're just a lot of fat.. which yeah i understand is necessary if you're burning a lot of calories going for big lifts.. but the amount of fats doesn't make sense to me. 
the amount of calories can be obtained by eating other things more nutritionally beneficial and less likely to make you fart all the time (a general sign you aren't digesting properly). 

i skipped going for extra milk proteins and fat (if you think about it, whey and casein are the junk fats in milk, and they get strained out of processed dairy most of the time.. not to mention the links to stomach cancer), and simply got more carbs. 

NOW nutrition makes a carb gainer and i added that to my protein shakes to get the extra calories and quick burning nutrients that my body can efficiently process while providing my body with specific nutrients it needs to grow. 

mass gainers are like using a fire hose to water the grass... you're throwing a lot of volume at what is something which can be specifically tailored. 

honestly you have a good process with using fruits and nuts to add nutrients and calories because your body can break it down more efficiently. 

if you really need more fats you can just poor some coconut oil into a shake and you'll accomplish the same thing. but i would never advocate getting calories from cheap fats


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## MikeH

The reason I went with the Dymatize gainer is because the fat content is so low. There's more since I'm using whole milk, but I'm getting that by drinking two cups of whole milk anyways. So, I'm not too worried. Plus, I'm between 12-15% BF, so I can tolerate a little bit of fat gain.


----------



## UnderTheSign

MikeH said:


> I ordered 12 lbs. of mass gainer on Friday. Should be here tomorrow or Wednesday. 1300 calories, 55g protein, 252g carbs, 8g fat. And that's without whole milk, which is what I use with all of my shakes. BRING THE GAINZ!


What I hate about those mass gainers is how they say "HUGE amount of calories per serving"... You buy a $40-50 tub and it only contains 15 servings 

If I want a mass shake I'll just throw in 2 scoops of whey and a ton of ground oats or other carb source. A lot cheaper.


----------



## MikeH

I mean, this claims nearly 2,000 per serving, but a serving is 32 oz. of milk with 2 gigantic scoops of powder, which equals out to 16 servings. I've decided that I'll just drink a half serving a day, which is still an extra 1,000 calories and 40+g of protein I get per day, and I double the amount of servings to 32.


----------



## Ibanezsam4

UnderTheSign said:


> What I hate about those mass gainers is how they say "HUGE amount of calories per serving"... You buy a $40-50 tub and it only contains 15 servings
> 
> If I want a mass shake I'll just throw in 2 scoops of whey and a ton of ground oats or other carb source. A lot cheaper.



yeah they're a ripoff. There are very few gainers which pack a punch.. and those that do you pay a hefty sum for. 

if you need the extra umph just eat more... or seek out alternative protein sources to give your body a break from processing fats and animal proteins. 



MikeH said:


> The reason I went with the Dymatize gainer is because the fat content is so low. There's more since I'm using whole milk, but I'm getting that by drinking two cups of whole milk anyways. So, I'm not too worried. Plus, I'm between 12-15% BF, so I can tolerate a little bit of fat gain.



why on earth do want fat gains when estrogen is contained in fat?


----------



## Uncreative123

MikeH said:


> 5/17/14:
> After some heavy critique on those videos above (which was much needed), I got together with a group of guys from the Animal Pak forums at Colerain Barbell. Great group of guys and I hope to train with them pretty frequently. Extremely welcoming and very helpful when it came to fixing my form and depth. So helpful, in fact, that I hit a legitimate squat PR at 301 lbs.
> 
> Squat: 1x8 @ 135, 1x5/1x3 @ 216, 1x3 @ 251, 1x1 @ 301 (PR)
> DL ( 2.75" deficit): 1x8 @ bar, 1x8 @ 135, 1x5 @ 225, 2x4 @ 285
> Leg Press: 1x15 @ 90, 1x15 @ 180, 3x15 @ 230
> Leg Extension: 5x15 @ 75
> Ham Curl: 5x15 @ 110
> 
> Felt extremely good to lift with these dudes, and I can see that my progress is going to skyrocket if I continue to lift with them. Hopefully I'm confident enough to compete by year's end.





So a week ago you couldn't even do one good squat at 245 (or 225 or actually at any weight because none of them were to depth) and were told to go back to the drawing board, but now all of a sudden you're squatting 301. Sounds legit. Especially with that 230lb leg press. I remember being able to leg press over 600lbs and still couldn't squat 300 (800+ on machines at a different angle), but what do I know, I wasn't taking 'mass gainers'. 

Good luck with all that.


----------



## MikeH

I was leg pressing 5 sets of 15 reps, so I'm not going to max out. It was simple accessory work. If I'm doing 5x5s, my leg press is 425. I doubt you were pressing 600 for 5x15. And that squat was one rep after sitting out a few cycles. I got in one rep with 5 other guys calling my depth, so yeah. I _magically_ did that. Refer to my above squat depth video for visual aid.

I think the best move here would be to continue working on your bodybuilding, and leave me the hell alone.


----------



## MikeH

Pulled a 330 lb. deadlift today.

I gotta say, today was a good day.


----------



## MFB

Did a new PR for leg press. 10 reps @ 320lbs

I'd use the  icon except for that it's totally not the right muscle group


----------



## gunshow86de

1st day of Smolov is down. I CAN'T ....ING BELIEVE I GET HAVE TO DO IT AGAIN TOMORROW! 

On the plus side, I can see why people report eating 4,000 calories a day and still cutting bodyfat. Seems like it will be great for my chubby little endomorph self.


----------



## MikeH

I'm actually jealous.  I want to get on Smolov, but I'm not going to sacrifice these next few months of SS/Stronglifts just to do it. I want my platform to be solid.

Also, stumbled upon this article and thought it to be worthy of this thread.
Why I don&#39;t do CrossFit


----------



## Ibanezsam4

MikeH said:


> Also, stumbled upon this article and thought it to be worthy of this thread.
> Why I don't do CrossFit




not surprising but not on point either. the author is right in that this training isn't beneficial in the long term.. but supplementing (briefly) with HIT (crossfit included) training isn't bad... just cut out the stupid for time stuff... im not going to diss a training method that i've never tried, but my only response to people who have invited em to WOD with them, has been "look i've hurt my back already just weightlifting with bad form.. no way in hell im doing for time without being careful". 

that being said i did observe a video of my friend doing front squats at her CF gym... her awful form and i shuttered


----------



## UnderTheSign

I prefer these articles
Throat Punch: The Influence of CrossFit 
http://articles.elitefts.com/training-articles/all-aboard-the-crossfit-bus/

The problem with crossfit is a lot of coaches simply don't know what they're doing. Then again, how many personal trainers do you see incorrectly teaching someone how to squat or deadlift?


----------



## UCBmetal

Ibanezsam4 said:


> not surprising but not on point either. the author is right in that this training isn't beneficial in the long term.. but supplementing (briefly) with HIT (crossfit included) training isn't bad... just cut out the stupid for time stuff... im not going to diss a training method that i've never tried, but my only response to people who have invited em to WOD with them, has been "look i've hurt my back already just weightlifting with bad form.. no way in hell im doing for time without being careful".
> 
> that being said i did observe a video of my friend doing front squats at her CF gym... her awful form and i shuttered



That's the point of the article, though. Crossfit is marketed to people that don't know what they're doing, so while it may work, the combination of heavy loads, high repetitions, timed exercise and minimal experience is mad dangerous.


----------



## MikeH

5/27/14:
Decided to progress from Starting Strength to Stronglifts 5x5 today. Holy shit. Didn't realize that those extra 10 reps would make that much of a difference. I definitely felt it today and actually didn't do hardly any assistance work because of it.

Squat: 1x10 @ bar, 1x8 @ 135, 1x5 @ 185, 5x5 @ 225
Bench: 1x10 @ bar, 1x8 @ 95, 1x5 @ 135, 5/5/5/5/4 @ 160
Barbell Row: 1x10 @ bar, 1x10 @ 95, 5x5 @ 125
Wide-grip Pull-up: 6/6/4
Calf Raise Machine: 3x10 @ 200
Incline Dumbbell Press (30º): 3x10 @ 45 (each arm)
Swimming sprints: 80m

Didn't get nearly as high of reps on my pull-ups as I usually do because I went straight to that after barbell rows, which was probably a bad idea. Also a little mad that I only got 24/25 reps on bench, but there was no way I was getting that last rep up. Next time!

Also, swimming sprints are the devil. Pure evil.


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

Attempting no fap for the third and hopefully final time (no fap for as long as possible, no porn EVER again). Was really pissed off and in an awful mood at about 1am (unrelated) and was considering breaking my resolve to destress but thought to hell with the time, let's LIFT (I lift at home and am used to lifting at night but my brain, I dunno)

long story short 1 Anaal Nathrakh album, 1 Behemoth album, 8 sets (excl. warmup) of OHP, 5 supersets of NASTY arm work, creatine and my awesome chocolate-oats protein shake later and I feel absolutely godlike

tl;dr preaching to the crowd bigtime here but FVCK YEAH LIFTING


----------



## gunshow86de

Day 2 of Smolov finished.







Just got to plug through tomorrow's workout and then I should be good (a whole 48 hours rest between squat sessions ).


----------



## icos211

Captain Shoggoth said:


> Attempting no fap for the third and hopefully final time (no fap for as long as possible, no porn EVER again). Was really pissed off and in an awful mood at about 1am (unrelated) and was considering breaking my resolve to destress but thought to hell with the time, let's LIFT (I lift at home and am used to lifting at night but my brain, I dunno)
> /QUOTE]
> 
> The .... does that have to do with anything?


----------



## Winspear

icos211 said:


> Captain Shoggoth said:
> 
> 
> 
> Attempting no fap for the third and hopefully final time (no fap for as long as possible, no porn EVER again). Was really pissed off and in an awful mood at about 1am (unrelated) and was considering breaking my resolve to destress but thought to hell with the time, let's LIFT (I lift at home and am used to lifting at night but my brain, I dunno)
> /QUOTE]
> 
> The .... does that have to do with anything?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people believe it takes away from gains etc by ....ing with your test levels. https://www.google.co.uk/?gfe_rd=cr&ei=JN-FU6-pBuvR8geRvoC4AQ#q=site:bodybuilding.com+nofap
Click to expand...


----------



## gunshow86de

^

How much are you guys wanking that it actually changes your test levels? 

A couple times a week will not have any effect on your gains. In fact, not doing it is supposedly bad for long term prostate health (assuming you don't have a significant other that is "helping" you instead).


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

The no-fap thing itself is not related at all, just the lifting bit. I do feel my test levels being higher than before though.

Apologies, that post was pretty random, but I had a massive lifting endorphin rush in my brain so blame that


----------



## jaxadam

UnderTheSign said:


> The problem with crossfit is a lot of coaches simply don't know what they're doing. Then again, how many personal trainers do you see incorrectly teaching someone how to squat or deadlift?





UCBmetal said:


> That's the point of the article, though. Crossfit is marketed to people that don't know what they're doing, so while it may work, the combination of heavy loads, high repetitions, timed exercise and minimal experience is mad dangerous.



You both nailed it. I just recently started doing crossfit about 9 months ago, and I love it. Let me also preface that with the fact that the place we go is a strength and conditioning/crossfit gym, so half the guys there strictly olympic lift and never touch the crossfit stuff.

Most of our workouts incorporate a slow, control, form based strength portion before we ever even get to the WOD, and they are very serious about either doing it right or not doing it at all.

My wife and I actually started it for fun with a few other friends, but man, I had no idea there was so much hate, and such a backlash over the crossfit community. I also didn't really realize how much of a cult following it has, either!


----------



## MikeH

So, if you stop jerking, your test levels can rise?


I'll just continue jerking.


----------



## UnderTheSign

The idea that fapping will somehow decrease test (but having sex won't?) is ridiculous. Yeah, your sex drive will go up... Or that's what you think. No, you're just really ....ing horny all the time cause you haven't had release in ages


----------



## xfilth

In!  After being out of the gym for a looong time, I started lifting mid march, doing Jason Blaha's 5x5. Progress so far in those 10 weeks:

Weight: 170lbs -> 207lbs (water weight and bulking gut!)
Squat 5x5: 125lbs -> 155lbs (had a metatarsal fracture in my right foot, so I didn't start squats until 1½ week ago. By far my worst lift!)
Deadlift 1x5 paused: 175lbs -> 245lbs
Bench press 5x5 paused: 120lbs -> 165lbs
Military press 5x5 paused: 70lbs -> 100lbs
Barbell rows 5x5: 90lbs -> 130lbs
Haven't seen too much progress on the assistant/iso work, but as long as the main lifts are progressing, I'm happy 

I have a problem, though. My elbow is starting to give me problems. Anyone has experience with treating elbow tendonitis? I cut out any bicep/tricep iso as well as rows, as they seemed to aggravate it. Benching and military pressing feel _okay._

What else can I do? Elbow sleeves, forearm bands, NSAIDs? I'm already taking fish oil. The pain is not very intense and only appears after I've used the elbow, so I hope I can remedy it without stopping lifting. I pay very close attention to my form, so I don't think that that is the culprit.


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## MikeH

Looking good, man. As far as the pain, try an elbow sleeve and see if that helps at all.


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## Winspear

Yeah try a sleeve to keep the joint warm. I've had similar issues with my knee recently but it's subsiding with plenty of foam rolling. I read that most joint pain is caused by tight surrounding muscles, so try some regular deep tissue massage on your forearm, bicep, and tricep. I had quite significant knee pain and it would ENTIRELY go away after a foam rolling session for a while whilst I was getting over this. I actually felt like I could feel a tingling in my knee ligament where it hurt, whilst massaging out the most painful knots in my thigh. I did have slight elbow problems a couple of years back but it went away without doing anything soon enough..


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## TRENCHLORD

to fap or not to fap, that is the question


----------



## gunshow86de

Day 3 of Smolov done.

I can't explain how happy I am that I don't have to squat again until Monday. Can't wait to try and walk tomorrow. Squatting 3 days in a row is no bueno.


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## Fiction

Gained 12lbs since I started back again 2 months ago and almost doubled all the weights in doing. Still not doing dead lifts, but I do the other 3 "main" lifts.


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## Ibanezsam4

bit off more than i could chew with madcow... well not really.. its just that program is designed for when gains come to a halt, and my upper body needs tons of work so i went to stronglifts instead (also the phone app makes it too easy) 

i start my squats a little lower, but i think its bee n a benefit especially since you throw 5lbs on everytime... im concentrating a lot on feeling all the muscle groups engage, when ti support the weight and when to explode with the weight... feels good. should be over 300lbs for 25 reps soon.. however my squats make my deadlifts look bad


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## soliloquy

back injury or no back injury, today i weigh the heaviest i've ever been and in the worse shape i've ever been. i'm headed to the gym starting monday. hoping a 4 day split of m/w/f/sat
and when i can, i'll throw in cardio on off days. 

i suck.

what would you recommend? previously i used to do 5 sets of 5 reps and saw my strength go up significantly. then right before injury, i switched to 3 sets of 8-10 reps. for fat loss, what is better? heavy weights, low reps? or low weight, high reps?

and i'll be throwing HITT between sets for a minute, then pause for a minute to catch my breath and/or to change weights for the next set


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## MikeH

I'm on SL 5x5 as well. I enjoy it.

But bad news today. Was warming up for 235 on squats at 185 and my groin started burning with pain. Tried stretching it out, decided to skip squatting and focus on my bench and barbell row. Hit 5x5 on both of them. Tried going back to just the bar and it just wasn't working. Gonna have to sit out on squats for a week or two, which sucks hard because squatting has become my favorite exercise and I'm obsessed with growing my quads. Frustrated is an understatement.


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## Captain Shoggoth

MikeH said:


> I'm on SL 5x5 as well. I enjoy it.
> 
> But bad news today. Was warming up for 235 on squats at 185 and my groin started burning with pain. Tried stretching it out, decided to skip squatting and focus on my bench and barbell row. Hit 5x5 on both of them. Tried going back to just the bar and it just wasn't working. Gonna have to sit out on squats for a week or two, which sucks hard because squatting has become my favorite exercise and I'm obsessed with growing my quads. Frustrated is an understatement.



I know that feel, just gotta roll with it.

SL was my first ever lifting program, I never did anything particularly heavy with it (like 1xBW squat, 1.5BW deadlift) because I was only 15/16, but man I love squatting hahahaha


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## UnderTheSign

soliloquy said:


> back injury or no back injury, today i weigh the heaviest i've ever been and in the worse shape i've ever been. i'm headed to the gym starting monday. hoping a 4 day split of m/w/f/sat
> and when i can, i'll throw in cardio on off days.
> 
> i suck.
> 
> what would you recommend? previously i used to do 5 sets of 5 reps and saw my strength go up significantly. then right before injury, i switched to 3 sets of 8-10 reps. for fat loss, what is better? heavy weights, low reps? or low weight, high reps?
> 
> and i'll be throwing HITT between sets for a minute, then pause for a minute to catch my breath and/or to change weights for the next set


Reps don't matter (much) for fat loss. Diet and some cardio.


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## MikeH

Reps actually matter a lot for fat loss. Moderate weight with high reps will get you cut. Diet and cardio are majorly important as well, but coupled with weight training.


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## UnderTheSign

MikeH said:


> Reps actually matter a lot for fat loss. Moderate weight with high reps will get you cut. Diet and cardio are majorly important as well, but coupled with weight training.


I've never heard anyone say they matter much, let alone a lot. You can lift in the 3-5 range (like a lot of powerlifters do), throw in conditioning/cardio and with a good diet you'll lose fat no problem as well.


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## MikeH

If you ever listen to a powerlifter for fat loss advice, ur doin it rong.














While there certainly are some powerlifters out there who are cut as shit, they are guys who, like myself (not saying that I look cut as shit ), incorporate hypertrophic sets into their routines, which are much better for cutting fat levels. Not to say that the 3-5 range won't do that, because it will. You'll gain more strength and muscle mass, but you won't be looking like a bodybuilder does with defined lines. You're right in saying that diet and cardio are building blocks for that. But I personally saw way more definition coming when I was on a bodybuilding routine. Now that I'm powerlifting, I'm just getting stronger and bigger. Not necessarily leaner.


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## UnderTheSign

One could argue that higher reps/bodybuilding style training make you look more 'cut' because those routines stimulate muscle gain more vs training for raw strength. Bigger muscles + low body fat = definition.

I suggest listening to any professional athlethe for diet advice and that includes a bunch of powerlifters.


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## MikeH

The powerlifting bit was more of a joke than anything. Obviously guys at the professional level know what they're doing. But I feel like reps do matter, because even you said that higher reps stimulate muscle growth more than reps for strength. And bigger muscles = higher metabolism = higher rate of fat loss.


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## Ibanezsam4

MikeH said:


> The powerlifting bit was more of a joke than anything. Obviously guys at the professional level know what they're doing. But I feel like reps do matter, because even you said that higher reps stimulate muscle growth more than reps for strength. And bigger muscles = higher metabolism = higher rate of fat loss.



the reps kinda matter. not a lot though. the idea behind higher reps is that the act of lifting a weight for a longer period of time will imitate a cardio effect. but studies show this isn't really the case. 

the truth is you can do any type of weight training in a caloric deficit and achieve the same results (just watch the hodge twins). you use the same amount of energy to pull a heavy weight for a few reps as you do for pulling a lighter weight for many reps. the difference is people training with high volume are purposefully trying to burn out, whereas the big lifter doesn't want that amount of muscle fatigue for recovery's sake. 

in the case of the bodybuilding training, you lift heavy initially then burn out with light later... but bodybuilders never stick to a high rep training regimen until they're preparing for a show (the higher rep draws water to the muscle giving it a bigger look).


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## Alcoholocaust

I've come to realise that lighter weight high reps vs heavy low reps is insignificant compared to focussing on the mind-muscle connection.
Focussing on the stretch and flexing the muscle independent of everything else - that's the key, the weight comes 2nd!


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## Ibanezsam4

Alcoholocaust said:


> I've come to realise that lighter weight high reps vs heavy low reps is insignificant compared to focussing on the mind-muscle connection.
> Focussing on the stretch and flexing the muscle independent of everything else - that's the key, the weight comes 2nd!



precisely! you can flex and really squeeze your muscles independent of weight and even that will do something eventually


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## Scar Symmetry

MikeH said:


> I'm on SL 5x5 as well. I enjoy it.
> 
> But bad news today. Was warming up for 235 on squats at 185 and my groin started burning with pain. Tried stretching it out, decided to skip squatting and focus on my bench and barbell row. Hit 5x5 on both of them. Tried going back to just the bar and it just wasn't working. Gonna have to sit out on squats for a week or two, which sucks hard because squatting has become my favorite exercise and I'm obsessed with growing my quads. Frustrated is an understatement.



I've found that when I do shit like this I actually end up appreciating the time off 

I've just had to take 5 weeks off due to personal reasons but as of next week I am going to be back on my upper body (lower body is in pretty good shape) like ....kkkk 

From earlier this year I know exactly how I'm going to get the gains: squats, skullcrushers, steak and eggs. Also a shitload of broccoli!


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## gunshow86de

Here's some clips from today's session. Squats are a double at 355 lbs for 2 sets, bench is 275 lbs x 5 with a full pause. Feel free to provide constructive criticism on form (just don't make fun of my chubbiness, that's a "work in progress" ). 

FYI, the background music is the new Vader album. It's ....ing epic. Stream it here.


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## Kidneythief

So a question, I have started to go to the gym again, but something doesn't seem right. I don't know if I'm not doing the exercises correctly, but I just don't feel that "muscle soreness" I've been expecting(?)

Here is what my "plan" looks like, please bear in mind I'm a complete noob at it, trying to follow a plan I found online (I hope I get the translation right). They sort of recommend it for people just starting out, and stick to this for a couple of months. Figured I'd go with this then...

bench press 12-10-8
dumbbell presses 12-10-8
front lat pulldown 12-10-8
standing barbell curl 12-10-8
overhead dumbbell triceps extension (the f*?) 12-10-8
squats with barbell 12-10-8
standing calf raises; around 30x3
crunches; 20x3

Or if anyone could give me tips on exercises, what to look for, or any general tips would be welcome.


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## MikeH

Muscle soreness doesn't necessarily mean you're doing it correctly. Not to say that hard workouts won't make you sore, but the goal is not to be stiff and achey, but just focusing on correct form and rep amounts. Also, I don't know exactly what you're showing me. Is this all of the exercises you do in one day? If so, you should start by breaking up your week into major muscle groups. Doing full body workouts multiple times a week won't allow you adequate recovery time, and you won't grow nearly as fast as you should. The most common split looks like this:

M - Chest/Triceps
W - Legs/Abs
F - Back/Biceps

You don't HAVE to follow a routine like that (I'm currently training for powerlifting, so I do multiple groups at once), but it's a good way to start. Just make sure you're focusing 100% on form and don't worry about weight. Do enough to challenge yourself, but don't ego lift. I was doing that, then had to completely readjust my squat and drop weight because I wasn't hitting correct depth. The beginning of training will engrain your muscle memory with correct motions so that when you start to go up in weight, it will only be beneficial because you're doing it correctly. Bodybuilding.com has some great videos for exercise explanations, if you're stuck on something.

Also, the overhead triceps extension is where you hold a dumbbell with both hands behind your head, and then lift up.


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## Kidneythief

Ah yes forgot to add, that those are the exercises for one day.
Well I'm still at the start of things, so I guess readjusting the program will be beneficial.

What I really need to look out for however is eating. I'm a skinny tall guy, and although I have been eating a lot, I never really gained weight. Obviously I didn't do any workout so that is no suprise, but I can't even "get fat". It's funny though, I can't really imagine myself eating 4-5 times a day. That will be another challenge I guess.

EDIT;
I'm not making up excuses, and this will be a stupid question;
I have only 2 occasions per week that I can go to the gym. Would it be then "better" to merge those three days?
So for example;
1st day: chest, triceps, legs
2nd day: biceps, back, abs


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## Ibanezsam4

I rode the struggle bus hard yesterday on my SL squats. 

i got up to 290 and idk.. maybe i botched my warmup, maybe i was tired.. but i said screw it to the last set... i could already feel my back beginning to strain.

im not put off by it though, technically im 10lbs away from when you're supposedly "done" with Strong Lifts.. so if chill at this weight for another week i'll be good 



Kidneythief said:


> I'm not making up excuses, and this will be a stupid question;
> I have only 2 occasions per week that I can go to the gym. Would it be then "better" to merge those three days?
> So for example;
> 1st day: chest, triceps, legs
> 2nd day: biceps, back, abs



it certainly wouldn't kill you or hurt your gains. 

just make sure you've had some food earlier in the day for energy support and you'll be good.


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## MikeH

Two days a week will be fine. Just make sure you're grinding it out hard. And space the days out so that you have ample recovery time between each session. Maybe do Monday and Thursday, if that's possible for your schedule.

As far as growing, I'm a very small guy as well, and the eating more thing was kind of hard for me starting off. A good way to go about starting would be to calculate your calorie and macronutrient (carbs, protein, fat) intake on a normal day. There are plenty of calculators online, like this one: Bodybuilding.com - Calculate Your Macronutrients Intake! that will give you your recommended intake per day. But since that will probably suggest more than you're used to, start off by calculating your current average intake. There are plenty of calorie and nutrient trackers for smart phones, as well as online. Once you figure that out, add 10-15% of each average macro to every one of your 3 meals. You should start to see results from that. After you start to see visible results and you've gotten into the swing of things in the gym, start supplementing your protein intake with shakes. The goal for someone looking to grow is at least 1g-1.5g of protein per lb of body weight. Seeing as you're a small guy, that will boost your gains big time. As for adding mass, I personally use this. Super Mass Gainer by Dymatize at Bodybuilding.com - Lowest Prices on Super Mass Gainer! I'm a small guy as well, so now that my newbie gains are starting to slow down, I have to cram as many calories and macros down my throat as I can without puking, and mass shakes are a good way to do that. A lot of guys like them, a lot are against them. If you find yourself to be against them, making your own shakes at home is the best (and cheaper) alternative. They typically consist of whey protein, oats, peanut butter, milk, yogurt, and bananas, but there are several different ways to go about it.

If you need anymore help, don't hesitate to ask.


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## Kidneythief

Well about the exercises, how would you approach it?
2-3 types of exercises for each group on one day?

So again back to the "plan" that I made;
1st day: 2-3 exercises each for chest, triceps, legs
2nd day: 2-3 exercises each for biceps, back, abs

There are a lot of variations for one area, so I guess that won't be a real problem, but choosing will be fun. I guess....and finding out which of the exercises works the best for me. Mehhh...


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## UnderTheSign

Do legs first on that first day. Then chest, then triceps. 3 for legs (quads, hams/glutes, calves), 2-3 chest, 2 for triceps. Second day, back, bicep, abs. You're missing shoulders this way though...


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## MikeH

I wouldn't do legs first. Legs are the thing you want to work out with the most intensity, as they are the biggest muscle group in your body. Scheck, one of the guys who writes articles for Animal, said it best:



> *RULE#2*: If you have the ability to train another part of your body after you do legs, then you didn&#8217;t do them hard enough. I&#8217;ve seen this over the years. Guys get done with quads and hamstrings and then go train back or shoulders. If you still have the energy to do another body part then you need to train legs harder. It should be an excruciatingly tiring workout. Your mental capacity and nervous system should be shot. Period.



Here's his full take on leg day.
Article Details


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## Captain Shoggoth

Aren't you currently doing StrongLifts in which on several days squatting is followed by other lifts e.g. OHP which would theoretically therefore contradict this?

Or do you consider the concept of leg-specific training as separate to heavy low-rep squatting as part of strength training?

My view skews to the latter, interested to see your thoughts.


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## MikeH

I'm not applying this fully to myself currently.  Though I do squat every workout (taking a week or two off due to a strained groin ), I still have a day where a lot of my accessory work is devoted to legs. My goal on that day is to basically stumble out of the gym. I usually do it on a deadlift day as well, so my typical leg day is coupled with back and looks like this:

Squat 5x5
OHP 5x5
Deadlift 1x5
Wide-grip Pull-ups 3 sets to failure
Lateral Close-grip Rows 3x12
Leg Press 3x12
Ham Curl 3x12
Leg Extension 3x12

A little bit heavy, but I only work out 3 days a week. Theoretically, I need to be doing this on my last day of the week to give myself a two day break before I squat again. But I'm also an idiot and that's why I have a strained groin. 

Also,
6/5/14:
Really hit my chest and arms hard today. Needed a solid workout. I'm still more and more addicted every day, and my off days are excruciating. 

Bench Press: warmups, 5x5 @ 165
Barbell Row: warmups, 5x5 @ 135
Incline Bench: 3x8 @ 135
Decline Dumbbell Bench: 3x10 @ 50 (each arm)
Preacher Curls: 3x10 @ 30 (each arm)
Chain Dips: 12/8/5 @ 35
McGill Pull-ups: 10x1
Plyometric Pushups: 12/10/8
Cable Curls: 10/10/9 @ 100

I was feeling ripped afterwards. Now I'm exhausted.

PS - For those who don't know, McGill Pull-ups are done in sets of 1 or 2, and are very concentric, explosive pull-ups that you go 100% intensity on every pull. I say for those who don't know, as I've only just learned about them today and wanted to give them a shot. They're pretty interesting. Here's a video for reference.


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## TRENCHLORD

^Those pullups seem like a big waste of time IMO.
Try this;
Explode up, hold the peak contraction as high as possible for a full two count, then lower with nice control, repeat, and don't rest at the bottom.
Under-grip or neutral will do far more for the lat bulk.


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## MikeH

I was doing them neutral grip, so I feel like I got more lat contraction than I would have palms-down.


----------



## Winspear

Anyone here made the switch to sumo deads? What you think?


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## TRENCHLORD

EtherealEntity said:


> Anyone here made the switch to sumo deads? What you think?


 

Make sure and stretch/strengthen thy groin.
I've only gave them a try and didn't really like the feel, but that's likely because I wasn't doing much to prepare properly for the change.
I use a fairly close stance for standard DL.


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## MikeH

No idea what the hell got into me yesterday, but I KILLED my previous DL PR. My last PR pull was 330 belted 3 weeks ago. Yesterday, I felt good pulling 290 for reps without a belt. Decided to say fark it and shoot for a PR. Pulled 340 beltless without a problem. 350 beltless. Again, no problem. Finally pulled 360 beltless with a bit of a sticking point, but got it up regardless. Strapped on a belt and pulled 370. After that, I was shot, but so ecstatic. Didn't do any accessory work, but I made sure I killed that.


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## Alcoholocaust

Nice! i might try a deadlift only day soon to get these numbers up.
I'm currently stuck on 140kg (~74kg bodyweight). Might try a belt also, i have a bit of a dodgy lower back (i'm a bricky by trade).
I'm also grabbing some chalk, my gym has some shitty stripped bars. Not into straps.


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## Captain Shoggoth

Alcoholocaust said:


> Nice! i might try a deadlift only day soon to get these numbers up.
> I'm currently stuck on 140kg (~74kg bodyweight). Might try a belt also, i have a bit of a dodgy lower back (i'm a bricky by trade).
> I'm also grabbing some chalk, my gym has some shitty stripped bars. Not into straps.



Just a tip, if your gym gets butthurt about chalk, try liquid chalk. Cheap and doesn't make the mess that chalk does. Also, we have the same deadlift! I'm almost 10kg heavier than you though so now I've got to get my ass in gear


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## Alcoholocaust

No better motivation than trying to beat someone! haha.
Yeah that liquid chalk looks great i'll look into it for sure.


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## Fiction

Ah, lost 3kg this week 

Shame, I was about to crack 80kgs, but then work dumped an extra 30 hours on me this week and last, also just starting skating again so a bit more cardio. But I'm back to the usual 38 hours work a week and hopefully I can hit 80 in the next month


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## MikeH

I know the weight loss feels. Went from 158 to 154 for two weeks or so, but I'm finally making the ascension to 160.


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## gunshow86de

Wait, trying to NOT lose weight is a thing?


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## MikeH

When you're an ectomorph, yes. I started off at 139. My goal is 200+ in my lifetime.  Probably extremely unlikely, but a boy can dream.


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## Fiction

Well I'm 6'1 and 165lbs, so at the moment I'm trying to put some on, I'm aiming for 200lbs, then I'll most likely cut back to 180 or so and just maintain.


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## MikeH

Started training with a buddy of mine today, so on the days I work with him, I'm trying to follow a more bodybuilding approach, as that's what he's going for. Still getting my power lifts in, so I'm not too worried about it. And I did squats today for the first time in about 10 days. Felt great. No groin pain at all, and I was actually going lower much easier than usual. Weight was a bit lighter at 210, but I felt like it was a good idea to drop after coming back from a strain like that.


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## Alcoholocaust

Fiction said:


> Ah, lost 3kg this week
> 
> Shame, I was about to crack 80kgs, but then work dumped an extra 30 hours on me this week and last, also just starting skating again so a bit more cardio. But I'm back to the usual 38 hours work a week and hopefully I can hit 80 in the next month



Them feels.
Don't worry muscle memory is awesome. I was skeptical but when i was on tour last year i got food poisoning and couldn't eat for around 3 days. Lost 7kgs!
I put it straight back on in 2 weeks when i was home and back into my normal diet.


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## Kidneythief

Well after doing some reading and researching I came up with the following plan. Gonna be interesting to say atleast... don't know how it will work out for a newbie like me. Offcourse I won't be doing these at first with maximum weights 
Tried to cover as much areas as I could, again if you have suggestions feel free 

1st day Going for chest, triceps, shoulders, and a bit of leg:
Benchpress
Triceps Extension On Cable
Shrugs
Flyes
Seated Triceps Extension
Standing Lateral Raises
Squats
Situps

2nd day: biceps, back, legs
Benchpress
Standing Barbell Curls
Front Lat Pulldown
Wrist Curl
Incline Curl With Dumbbells
T-bar rows
Leg press
Calf raises
Situps


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## MikeH

I wouldn't recommend benching both days. If you hit your chest hard enough on your first day, you should still be burnt out on your second day. Not to mention, it's a chest workout anyways. So, instead of that, maybe do some wide-grip pull-ups. That's always my go-to back workout, aside from deadlifts. I wouldn't recommend deadlifts to you until you do a heavy amount of reading and video watching about them. I also don't think you should do squats by themselves. Add it to your leg day instead. That way you're hitting your legs hard one day, then have 6 days of rest after that. Other than that, it doesn't look too bad.

Good call on not doing max weight. Always start small, focus on form and hard muscles contraction. Feel every rep.


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## UnderTheSign

I'd also recommend a more logical order, chest > shoulders > triceps and back > biceps > legs. Might want to drop a curl variation and add a back exercise as right now it's 3 for arms and 2 for back while usually it's the other way around.

If you do legs on one day, I'd recommend changing leg press for some sort of hamstring movement too. Maybe change side lat raises for shoulder presses as I feel those hit the full shoulder more than one type of raise.


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## TRENCHLORD

I think recovery/growth is too often overlooked.

Try this;
Push day- 2-3sets of bench (after warmups), 2-3 sets of shoulder press, 2-3 sets of tricep pushes (any kind)

take a day off

Pull day- same scheme using rows/pullups/pulldowns

take a day off

Legs/Core- Squats or Deadlifts then hit the abs

take a day off 

Repeat cycle (there is no law that says the split needs to be done over 7 days, 6 or 8 can work fine also, or whatever)
You can also rotate the chosen lifts for the day, like inclines instead of flats, or leg-press instead of squats or ect......



^I realize this isn't geared for powerlifting progress.
My training philosophy has always been "the most amount to show for the least amount of work, over the longest amount of time" (decades).
I want to feel good and be muscular when I'm 50, even 60 years old.


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## MikeH

Well, he said that he can only work out 2 days a week, due to his schedule, which makes his split a bit cramped.


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## Kidneythief

Yeah, I know it's not very ideal to cramm the whole thing into 2 days but what can you do.

But thank you for the advices I'll have another look at it. Once I'm done with work dammit...


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## Winspear

Here's what I'd be doing with 2 days a week:

On weeks where it's 2 days in a row or just one day between them:
Day 1:
Squats 4 x 6-8
Leg Press 4 x 6-8
Bench 4 x 6-8
Overhead Press 4 x 6-8
Tricep Dip 3 x 6-8
Tricep Pushdown 3 x 6-8

Day 2:
Deadlift 4 x 6-8
Pullup 4 x Failure
Bent Row 4 x 6-8
T Bar Row 4 x 6-8
Bicep Curl 3 x 6-8
Preacher Curl 3 x 6-8

And on weeks where you can hit the two sessions with two or more days rest in between:
Squats 5 x 5
Bench 5 x 5
Deadlift 5 x 5
Bent Row 5 x 5
Overhead Press 5 x 5
Pullup 4 x Failure

I think a two day a week routine especially where the days are potentially close together is very good for focussing too much on the smaller exercises. I have my girlfriend on a very similar program to the above at the moment (2-3 / wk), minus tris/bis right now, and it's going very well. A routine like this should be focused enough to get some solid noob gains going


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## gunshow86de

Started the Base Mesocycle of Smolov this week, and it is kicking my ass. I barely have energy to do my bench and overhead pressing work. 

Monday was 4 sets of 9 at 295 lbs. Today was 5 sets of 7 at 315 lbs. Friday is 7 sets of 5 at 335 lbs. Saturday is 10 sets of 3 at 355 lbs. Repeat next week, bumping the weights up 20 lbs each day. 

I will say that for anyone considering doing it, I would recommend taking some weight off of you 1RM before calculating the weights for all your sets. I took 15 lbs off of mine and it's still pretty brutal.


----------



## Winspear

Smolov and Smolov JR are sounding fun. Definitely going to try sometime later this year. Lol, 'fun'...

I finish my 8 week program this week with a 104% deadlift on Friday. It's been super fun. Definitely going to run it again but in a caloric surplus because my strength gains while cutting have been fantastic. Real test will come next weekend at a meet going for 107-111%. 
Going to hit triples for 3 weeks after that just before the competition. I checked out some PDF previous results and records today and it's quite likely I will take 1st for 74kg Under 23's and perhaps the whole 74kg Category (only a under 23s and over 40's comp). Also likely to set regional squat+dead records for U23 74kg May only be a regional but for just a few months into powerlifting I'm very happy with this progress. 

My birthday in October though and I'll be moving up a weightclass too, so this is the last time I'll ever be at the top of _anything_ for a while


----------



## MikeH

Need to get back into my squat groove before I hit Smolov. I'm super happy with Stronglifts right now, though. Seeing solid gains every week, pretty consistently. My bench is struggling, but I expected that. I've still gone up 20 lbs with my working weight, so I'm happy about that.


----------



## gunshow86de

Week 2 of the base mesocycle started. I've resigned to the fact that I'll be sore all the time. Even with rolling, stretching and light warmups, I still can't get the lactic acid out until about the 3rd set.


----------



## MikeH

Deadlifting at 300 lbs. for my working set now. A goal that I thought was way far off. I've seen crazy gains lately, and I'm about to kick things into overdrive. This week I'm really focused on eating way more, and making every rep in my workout count. Today kicked my ass because I made every squat rep touch my ass to my heels. Felt like a real man, but it also felt like I was doing what this exercise was meant for. I was in a little bit of a slump, but today was a slump-buster for sure.


----------



## ddtonfire

Just joined the 1000 lb club!

245x1 bench
375x3 squat
395x3 deadlift

Total: 1015 lb


----------



## MikeH

Killing it! Just bumped my total up today with a bench PR at 205. Went for 225, but got stuck midway through and let it hit the catch bars (controlled, I didn't let it drop). Wanted to try for 215, but I was hit after the 225 attempt. There's always next week, though. So:

Squat: 301x1
Bench: 205x1
Deadlift: 370x1

Total: 876

Pretty stoked about it. About to smash through 900.


----------



## Winspear

^ Grats both  How much are you weighing now? 

Got my 4 weeks out test meet this Sunday, looking forward to it! I'm finally at the 74kg mark now, going for a 445kg total this week


----------



## MikeH

I'm sitting at 158 currently. Just started getting my food intake in check this week after slacking off, so I'm hoping I get the gains back. Looking for 180.


----------



## icos211

Man, I love my back. Did some dumbbell rows 3x7 @ 80lbs. May not seem like much, but for only lifting for 3 months they are the biggest dumbbells I've ever touched.

Going swimming with a girl I'm into tomorrow. I'm bulking though, so I'm definitely anything but swimsuit ready. I'm going to hit the gym bright and early, though, and try to get the biggest pump I possibly can. There's an innuendo in there somewhere...


----------



## MikeH

Fvcking bombed out at the gym yesterday. Did two sets of squats at 220 with a pause at the bottom. 3rd set, got two reps and then folded like a pretzel. Luckily I had the safety bars set at a decent height. After that, my legs were shot. I'm blaming it on my recent lack of sleep, as I was up until 1:30am the night before, and woke up at 6:45. Gonna take today and not do shit, then hit it hard tomorrow morning before my tattoo session.


----------



## gunshow86de

Just finished week 2 of the base meso cycle of Smolov. FVCK I'M BEAT!

Monday - 315 lbs x 9 reps for 4 sets
Wednesday - 335 lbs x 7 reps for 5 sets
Friday - 355 lbs x 5 reps for 7 sets
Today - 375 lbs x 3 reps for 10 sets (10 motherfvcking sets!)

It's interesting that, for the Friday and Saturday workouts, the weight somehow gets easier in the second half of the workout. The 9th and 10th sets today were better and easier than the 1st and 2nd. It's weird, but I suppose you just kind of go in to "auto-pilot." 

I'm definitely expending a lot of calories. I've already gained (lost?) a notch on my weight belt (it comes in an extra notch).


----------



## Winspear

MikeH said:


> Fvcking bombed out at the gym yesterday. Did two sets of squats at 220 with a pause at the bottom. 3rd set, got two reps and then folded like a pretzel. Luckily I had the safety bars set at a decent height. After that, my legs were shot. I'm blaming it on my recent lack of sleep, as I was up until 1:30am the night before, and woke up at 6:45. Gonna take today and not do shit, then hit it hard tomorrow morning before my tattoo session.



Know that feeling  Today actually went fairly well apart from deadlifts. After hitting my PRs at yesterdays meet I decided to jump straight back into the later weeks of my plan with the new %'s to hardcore things up before the competition in 4 weeks. So I've effectively skipped 2 weeks of strength gains and started 24 hrs after maxing out. I was meant to be doing 3x3 on squats and bench with 91%. I actually got 3-3-5 on bench which was cool but training bench is always easier when not pausing, compared to squats and deads which are really competition format all the time haha. Squats I managed 3-2-2-2. Deadlifts was meant to be 4x8 on 76%. I got a set of 3, a single, and then called it quits.  My body has never felt as shot as it does right now. Squats were hard, but those few light deadlifts...I felt more prone to injury right there than I have on any 1RM haha! Definitely a good idea to stop.


----------



## MikeH

Luckily hit 5x5 on squats today. Widened my stance, after being fearful and bringing my legs in to prevent groin strain. But luckily I felt nothing in my groin and only had one sticking point out of 25 reps. Bench was a little less than desirable at 5/5/3/3/4, but this is the highest weight I've ever benched for reps (175), so it is to be expected. Overall solid day.


----------



## Fiction

I'm still struggling to put on weight since I lost my last batch. I've been hovering 76-77 for about a month now. My lifts have all improved, and I'm getting slimmer. But I still haven't made any extremely big differences in regards to noob gains. I'm eating close to 3000 calories a day, but I think the fact that I run twice, Gym 4 times and work close to 60 hours as a chef every week I need to up it even more, it's just really really hard 

I started using supps this week though, so hopefully I start to see some improvements, I'll give another little update in a month.


----------



## Winspear

Fiction said:


> I'm still struggling to put on weight since I lost my last batch. I've been hovering 76-77 for about a month now. My lifts have all improved, and I'm getting slimmer. But I still haven't made any extremely big differences in regards to noob gains. I'm eating close to 3000 calories a day, but I think the fact that I run twice, Gym 4 times and work close to 60 hours as a chef every week I need to up it even more, it's just really really hard
> 
> I started using supps this week though, so hopefully I start to see some improvements, I'll give another little update in a month.



I don't know what your diet consists of but get on some beastly shakes - 800-1500 calories in 5 minutes easy  Some people buy weight gainers but I just chuck mine full of a pint of whole milk, about 70g protein and oats, banana, greek yoghurt etc.


----------



## Fiction

Yeah I only just got protein last friday, so now it will be easier. I've been doing 60g protein, 2 egg whites, 30g oats, banana and the rest milk. Quick and easy in the morning before I leave.


----------



## MikeH

PACK IN THE PROTEIN! You'll see great gains when you start supplementing your nutrition, as long as you do it correctly. A lot of guys will assume that since they're getting their protein from shakes that they can skimp on it in their food, which defeats the whole purpose of a supplement. So keep up the same diet you've maintained, plus your protein. And if you still don't see the gains in a few weeks, add more calories to your daily intake. I'm around 3500 a day with 150g of protein. I might honestly try bumping up to 4000/200. I just broke 160 lbs, so I'm trying to go into hyperdrive and gain more.


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

Exams (and school forever, oh god) finally finished yesterday so I went down to a great gym I found 2 minutes from my house. Still had leftover exhaustion and had been driving all day so was just going to go light on deads. Ended up getting hyped, and the guy at the front desk saw me and offered me a belt, DL'd 3 plates for the second time ever (which he was impressed with not least of which because I was by a significant margin the smallest guy in there), murdered myself with HIIT on the exercise bike and staggered to the car  fuck yeah testosterone!


----------



## ddtonfire

Those are the best workouts where you're dogging and unmotivated and think you're going to die and then you pull through HARD.


----------



## MikeH

That's how a good portion of my DL PRs have been hit.


----------



## MikeH

Been reading a lot of articles on Elite FTS. Good way to get psyched up and motivated. A lot of the veteran lifters who write for them are super knowledgeable and just all around genuine guys who cut through the bullshit and lay things out the way they are.

If I Knew Then What I Know Now: Needs vs. Wants
If I Knew Then What I Know Now: It Takes a Village to Raise a Child
Elitefts Classic: 10 Nuggets of Wisdom
EFS Classic: Heavy Music for Heavy Lifting

I just want to be a fusion lovechild of Jim Wendler, Henry Rollins, and Phil Anselmo.


----------



## Winspear

^ Having a read. And chipping in with a great watch and awesome motivation:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=se7PYe0XPeE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8F4I7dvZIg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TG79FmMyUE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwM9PHlwNd8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrp4a-LBGdc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Av3vgpA2zyA
If you don't have time the conclusion is worth a watch on it's own. Needing a source on that music throughout the lifting (which begins at 7 30)


----------



## MikeH

ANYTHING by Animal is worth the watch. I love that brand, and if I ever reach a point in my powerlifting career where I can become an amateur competitor, that would be the company I'd want to be in contact with.


----------



## Winspear

MikeH said:


> if


----------



## MikeH

You're right, you're right.

WHEN I TURN PRO.


----------



## gunshow86de

Personally, I just stare at my avatar to get ready to lift.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

^^^ I'm gonna have to go lie down now.


----------



## MikeH

Strained my hamstring&#8230;.while benching.

Do u even leg drive, bro?

EDIT: Oh, also 215 lb bench PR.


----------



## Winspear

Congrats man  My right thigh always cramps up 
Still couldn't deadlift today - tried block pulls and barely felt able to do 3 reps at 70%. Demotivating, though they say it takes a good 10 days to recover from a deadlift max and it's only been 6 haha. Hopefully Monday goes ok!


----------



## MikeH

Today is always my favorite day. Squat, deadlift, OHP. Always feel cock strong after this workout. Deadlift is supposed to be 320 today, Squat at 230, and OHP at 125. We shall see.


----------



## UnderTheSign

Changings jobs and thus changing gyms in august. From a family gym to one with a powerlifting team and some of the countries strongest guys. Made some calls and they'll be helping me out!


----------



## TRENCHLORD

UnderTheSign said:


> Changings jobs and thus changing gyms in august. From a family gym to one with a powerlifting team and some of the countries strongest guys. Made some calls and they'll be helping me out!



Sure to have plenty of quality racks in there. 
After having my rack for awhile now (cheapo weider, but nice and wide/sturdy for my modest numbers) I'd hate the thought of training without it.



^ not actually mine, same model though. I stripped all the generic cable stuff off mine, plus I don't bench backwards like whoever was lifting on ^that one.


----------



## MikeH

Only hit 3/5 reps on deadlift tonight at 325. To be honest, it's a higher weight than I was supposed to be lifting, but I wanted to shoot for it. Ate like shit today, so next deadlift day, I'm going to eat right and get adequate rest the day before and go heavy again. Everything else was pretty solid, though.


----------



## UnderTheSign

TRENCHLORD said:


> Sure to have plenty of quality racks in there.


My current gym is alright when it comes to equipment, one squat rack, couple of benches and incline/declines too but it's all Panata, made for Italian midgets  My hands/arms often hit the sites of the squat rack and some of the machines are dreadful, especially stuff like leg curls/extensions... "center of joint should be aligned with the mark on the machine"... But it's already on it's largest position and I'm 4 inches away from the mark!


----------



## MikeH

Finally had a solid day on Thursday. A little late to posting, but every day after that was spent being full on AMERICA. AKA, drinking lots of beer.  But, I managed to hit all of my lifts pretty solid. 230 squat and 125 OHP for 5x5, 320 deadlift for 1x5. Going to be lifting in a charity event in two weeks, so I might hit it hard this week, then do a de-load the following week to save myself up.


----------



## MikeH

315 lb squat PR tonight.


----------



## Uncreative123

Benched 605 raw today. Yeah, it was awesome.


----------



## MikeH

Fucking monstrous.


----------



## MikeH

So, I've packed on some serious lbs. Started in January at 139.8. This morning, I weighed 170.5. That's 29.7 lbs in roughly 6 months. It's amazing what you can do when you stop eating crap and start picking up some heavy items.


----------



## MikeH

Looks like I'm keeping this alive. 

Hit another PR tonight. 225 for two reps on the bench. Last PR was 215 for one. Mental prep all day made a hell of a difference.


----------



## BrainArt

I would love to get my squat up, but because of my bad lower back and hip I can't. Years of bone marrow and density tests have left them in bad shape.

The bar puts too much pressure on them with weight added, even with proper form, making it impossible to walk comfortably for a few days after. I know that I'm supposed to feel sore, but this isn't soreness, it is pure pain.

I just stick to leg press to keep my back in good shape, while still activating my leg muscles; and since I'm not planning on competing in anything I think I should be OK.


----------



## MikeH

Yeah, squatting is quite physically taxing, so bone damage can hinder it big time. If you don't feel pain from the leg press, that's probably a good alternative. Not the best, but it will keep you in shape better than not doing anything. I suppose the bad lower back rules out stiff-legged deadlifts as well, no?


----------



## BrainArt

Probably, I haven't tried deadlifting yet. As for the leg press, I go heavy and deep on it. I never skip leg day, even with my large thigh genetics. 

EDIT: Doing some more research on it, I might actually be able to do sumo squats with relative ease and without the back pain. If the Hodge twins can sumo squat with all of their back issues, I should be able to do them as well. I'll have to give them a try.


----------



## JeffFromMtl

Well, I'm about a week and a half into my new workout plan and and have been trying to get as many calories as possible. I've been supplementing with isogainer (and a multi-vitamin) as well cuz like some have said, getting the calories can almost be a chore. I don't have a super-accurate scale but as of today, it looks like I've already put on 3 lbs, and am already seeing a physical difference.

Now that I'm eating this many calories and seeing progress, I'm realizing just how much I was under-eating, it's amazing.


----------



## JeffFromMtl

Double post.


----------



## MikeH

Most people don't realize how little they're actually eating until they track their intake. It's kind of crazy seeing the difference in what you think you're taking in, as opposed to what you actually are.


----------



## anthonyferguson

set a new deadlift PR this week, 155kg (341lbs for you imperial folk). I like to think I'm doing ok for 67kg (just under 150) bodyweight. That along with some pretty brutal squatting. Been doing 5-3-1 but working away and stuff have sort of scuppered my routine which is very annoying... Hoping to get some solid time at home so I can get a 3 month rotating 5-3-1 5/5 programme going. Just out of interest any of you guys had knee problems? I've been getting some slight stiffness and occasional pain in my left knee just above the patella sort of 'inside' the joint around where the outside quad attaches. Would really appreciate some input on how to nip this in the bud if it could be potentially problematic.


----------



## Uncreative123

Uncreative123 said:


> Benched 605 raw today. Yeah, it was awesome.




lol....it wasn't serious.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

Relevant to my P.R.s I'm very weak right now, but never-the-less feeling very good about training.

Had a minor health issue come up early-mid-May which I let go for a few weeks thinking I'd get better on my own. Ended up having to go in and they put me on some crazy strong antibiotics for bacterial/parasitic infections in the digestive tract.
Couldn't eat hardly anything for those 5wks (total) and my bodyweight went from 220 down to 185. No shit!, that's 35LBS lost without any intent to lose .
Unfortunately I dropped both fat and muscle about equally. Everyone noticed how much smaller my face was looking. Not to mention all my pants were falling down. Had to by some extra shoe strings for cheap belts.

Appetite came back quickly after the antibiotic cycle. In these last 3wks I've managed to gain back about 12 pounds with only a few being fat. Probably more muscle-glycogen stores than anything. Stocked up on clean/lean bodybuilding foods and Isopure whey-isolate in an attempt to gain back muscle without fattening up as much as usual.

On a "blessing in disguise" note, the ailment forced me to go cold turkey on alcohol and coffee for those 5wks. I've since had a cup or two/beer or two on a couple occasions, but I'm committed to not making either one into as much of a recreational/habitual thing now and for the future. Saving the money and the calories is feeling great in itself at the moment .
I had been really abusing the coffee in recent months, to the point of 4-5 cups during my early-day and 4-5 cups at the early-night, enough to make anyone's gut feel rock-loaded.


Bodybuilding.com sent me (with my Isopure order) a couple free samples of the preworkout sup called Volt. Has anyone tried this stuff? If so, how does it compare to other popular preworkouts?

I'm going to use it for the next couple workouts at a standard one-serving rate and see how it goes.
I haven't done a preworkout sup since the days of the original caffeine/ephedrine Ripped Fuel (a very long time ago). Since then it's always been plain black coffee mixed nice and strong (chugachuga).
Figuring that using the Volt or something else (for workouts only) will help keep me from making coffee a daily habit again. Trying to keep everything in more moderation from this point forward.


----------



## MikeH

anthonyferguson said:


> set a new deadlift PR this week, 155kg (341lbs for you imperial folk). I like to think I'm doing ok for 67kg (just under 150) bodyweight. That along with some pretty brutal squatting. Been doing 5-3-1 but working away and stuff have sort of scuppered my routine which is very annoying... Hoping to get some solid time at home so I can get a 3 month rotating 5-3-1 5/5 programme going. Just out of interest any of you guys had knee problems? I've been getting some slight stiffness and occasional pain in my left knee just above the patella sort of 'inside' the joint around where the outside quad attaches. Would really appreciate some input on how to nip this in the bud if it could be potentially problematic.



Knee soreness will come with heavy squatting, if not tended to correctly. First, make sure your knees aren't traveling over your toes, as that will put a lot of stress on them. Also, make sure you're going full-depth. Half and 3/4 reps will actually do more damage to your knees than some people want to admit. As for treatment, maybe consider a neoprene knee sleeve from the drug store, and make sure you ice after heavy squat sessions. I get stiff knees from time to time, and icing really helps. That, and stretching a lot.


----------



## anthonyferguson

MikeH said:


> Knee soreness will come with heavy squatting, if not tended to correctly. First, make sure your knees aren't traveling over your toes, as that will put a lot of stress on them. Also, make sure you're going full-depth. Half and 3/4 reps will actually do more damage to your knees than some people want to admit. As for treatment, maybe consider a neoprene knee sleeve from the drug store, and make sure you ice after heavy squat sessions. I get stiff knees from time to time, and icing really helps. That, and stretching a lot.



Cheers for that man. I'm definitely going to full depth... Haven't been squatting at particularly high percentages of 1rm, just quite a lot of volume. Been concentrating on my form a lot so hopefully I'm not doing any damage through that. Might have been the box jumps I was doing recently... Might need to re-evaluate that. That said I might go and get one for the sake of potential future needs! Thanks!


----------



## ghost_of_karelia

Just started all this stuff. Decided to start out clean (that is, no supplements whatsoever and just try and alter my diet to see what difference it would make) and thus far it's made a hell of a lot of difference. Started in mid-June (roughly a month ago) and have put on four pounds (before that found it reeeally difficult to put on any weight at all) and people around me have noticed the difference, and I've mentioned to no-one that I'm working out. 

At the moment I'm concentrating on doing only six exercises, thus I'm not breaking them down into separate routines as I have plenty of time on my hands. I do them every other day, with an entire day's rest between. I'm doing weighted ankle extensions (as I'm participating in a ballet in a couple of weeks and need the calf and joint strength), squats, simple bicep curls, bench press, skull crush and crunches. I've rocketed up weight-wise in the leg department but have seen relatively little progress in the arms and bench, though I can definitely feel myself getting stronger and my control over my body improving. I've always had relatively little body fat and it's actually been quite strange to see my muscles just kind of balloon under my skin. It's great.

Also helps with the mind and maintaining self discipline. Good stuff all around.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

jarvncaredoc said:


> Just started all this stuff. Decided to start out clean (that is, no supplements whatsoever and just try and alter my diet to see what difference it would make) and thus far it's made a hell of a lot of difference. Started in mid-June (roughly a month ago) and have put on four pounds (before that found it reeeally difficult to put on any weight at all) and people around me have noticed the difference, and I've mentioned to no-one that I'm working out.
> 
> At the moment I'm concentrating on doing only six exercises, thus I'm not breaking them down into separate routines as I have plenty of time on my hands. I do them every other day, with an entire day's rest between. I'm doing weighted ankle extensions (as I'm participating in a ballet in a couple of weeks and need the calf and joint strength), squats, simple bicep curls, bench press, skull crush and crunches. I've rocketed up weight-wise in the leg department but have seen relatively little progress in the arms and bench, though I can definitely feel myself getting stronger and my control over my body improving. I've always had relatively little body fat and it's actually been quite strange to see my muscles just kind of balloon under my skin. It's great.
> 
> Also helps with the mind and maintaining self discipline. Good stuff all around.




You probably need more rest between the upper-body workouts, especially if you're going to failure or close to failure on the arms/chest/shoulder lifts.
One day rest in between isn't going to allow for recovery AND growth.


----------



## MikeH

Joined in on a little friendly competition on the Animal Pak boards for the Ohio lifters. We're racing to a 100 lb deadlift PR. Gonna make that my prime focus now. Gonna do a 2-day-a-week deadlift routine coupled with Stronglifts. So I'll probably only be squatting once a week now, instead of twice. We'll see how it goes. Went for a 35 lb PR last week at 405, and got it up about 3 inches, then stalled. After that, I was pretty good and shot.


----------



## Alcoholocaust

Off to the doctors today. I've torn something in my shoulder.
Do your stretches guys! I hit shoulders as usual, no pain. Went home and had a shower and stretched my arm to scrub my back and felt something rip/pop for a split second. It's been almost week now and today i can barely put my shirt on by myself.
We'll see what the Doc says...


----------



## MikeH

No good, man. Just make sure you baby the shit out of it. I had a strained groin about 6 weeks ago and it sucked. And then last Monday, due to a shitload of drinking over the weekend, as well as lack of hydration that day at work, I was washing my leg in the shower, my foot slipped off the tub, and I got the worst cramp I've ever had in my right oblique. Thought I was going to die. My vision got blurry, I was forcing my puke from coming up, and I couldn't breathe. Luckily, I just drank a few glasses of water, ate some pretzels, and slept it off.

Hit my legs pretty solid tonight. Decided to do heavy weight on the leg press at the end of my workout, and just went up in 90 lb increments, starting at 270. Hit 540 for two reps, and probably could have hit around 600 for one. Didn't try, though, as I had already been working out for about an hour and a half and wanted to fall asleep.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

MikeH said:


> No good, man. Just make sure you baby the shit out of it. I had a strained groin about 6 weeks ago and it sucked. And then last Monday, due to a shitload of drinking over the weekend, as well as lack of hydration that day at work, I was washing my leg in the shower, my foot slipped off the tub, and I got the worst cramp I've ever had in my right oblique. Thought I was going to die. My vision got blurry, I was forcing my puke from coming up, and I couldn't breathe. Luckily, I just drank a few glasses of water, ate some pretzels, and slept it off.
> 
> Hit my legs pretty solid tonight. Decided to do heavy weight on the leg press at the end of my workout, and just went up in 90 lb increments, starting at 270. Hit 540 for two reps, and probably could have hit around 600 for one. Didn't try, though, as I had already been working out for about an hour and a half and wanted to fall asleep.





 Nothing hardly worse than getting injured in the shower . (at least it wasn't like on American History X movie)

Just wait until you get a little older, when sleeping is enough to f--- you up.
Luckily it doesn't happen too often, but every now and then I go to get out of bed and I can't hardly turn my neck, and then occasionally it's the lower back stiffness, when it was absolutely fine when I'd went to bed that night.


----------



## MikeH

I've altered my diet a bit, and since I'm taking in around 4000 calories a day, my metabolism is skyrocketing, which makes me sweat when I'm seriously sitting at the computer. Right now. I'm drenched. Doing nothing. So I've lost a lot of water, and it's hard to force myself to drink more, since I never really had to. This has resulted in serious cramping lately. It's a pain in my&#8230;..well, everything really.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

MikeH said:


> I've altered my diet a bit, and since I'm taking in around 4000 calories a day, my metabolism is skyrocketing, which makes me sweat when I'm seriously sitting at the computer. Right now. I'm drenched. Doing nothing. So I've lost a lot of water, and it's hard to force myself to drink more, since I never really had to. This has resulted in serious cramping lately. It's a pain in my..well, everything really.



Since the extra calories isn't a bad thing for your goals, have you tried replacing most of the plain water with Gatorade? 

Not sure how much it really matters, but I noticed awhile back that Powerade uses high fructose corn syrup for sweetener while Gatorade uses regular sugar and dextrose (which is better from what I understand).
Anyways the additional electrolytes should help with the cramping and also help water retention. And plus the extra easy calories might help.


----------



## Alcoholocaust

Haha man I overheat like crazy at night at around 3500 calories. It's winter here at the moment and my gf has like 3 blankets on and I have 1 and still sweat.


----------



## Alcoholocaust

Phew, Doc said it's just tendonitis (in my shoulder). I thought i might of tore something.
Strong anti imfams and no work/gym for a week (well, a week to smash my legs and calves


----------



## MikeH

TRENCHLORD said:


> Since the extra calories isn't a bad thing for your goals, have you tried replacing most of the plain water with Gatorade?
> 
> Not sure how much it really matters, but I noticed awhile back that Powerade uses high fructose corn syrup for sweetener while Gatorade uses regular sugar and dextrose (which is better from what I understand).
> Anyways the additional electrolytes should help with the cramping and also help water retention. And plus the extra easy calories might help.



I didn't think much of it because water is free.  I may try to add a bottle of Gatorade a day, though. I know a buddy of mine stopped drinking Powerade because the levels of sodium are pretty absurd, so I'll have to see what Gatorade is like.


----------



## MikeH

Someday&#8230;


----------



## Winspear




----------



## Alcoholocaust

Well shoulder is still ....ed and i got a 2nd opinion. I've got a tear in my rotator cuff.
Major bummer as i can't lift for a while, pushes my progress back a bit.

Warm up, stretch and look after yourselves!


----------



## TRENCHLORD

Alcoholocaust said:


> Well shoulder is still ....ed and i got a 2nd opinion. I've got a tear in my rotator cuff.
> Major bummer as i can't lift for a while, pushes my progress back a bit.
> 
> Warm up, stretch and look after yourselves!




One thing I like to do that really seems to prevent any shoulder discomfort during and after benching;----

- Make a point to do light pulldowns or rows with cables and/or dumbells in between your warmup/ladder-up sets for bench, inclines, and overheads.
Warming up the joints and muscles in both directions seems to really help get things seated correctly and get the most blood pumped in there which helps protect everything.
Sometimes I also do very light dumbell side-laterals and bent-laterals along with light stretching and arm-circles just to get the shoulders filled with blood before hitting my real work-sets on any press.


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

I had rotator cuff pain a couple of years back (nowhere near as serious as yours) so now I start with 3 sets of 10 shoulder dislocations (How to Boost Your Flexibility with Shoulders Dislocations) on both of my pressing days. Haven't had a problem since.


----------



## Fiction

I got my first 100kg squat today, may not seem like much to you guys, but It's pretty good for me 

Legs are definitely quickly becoming my favourite day, and I love doing back because you can feel it so much. Also had a good session with a friend whose been for for like 2 years, he helped me fix a few form problems with chest and really helped me activate it, it's been awhile since I actually felt sore the next day after chest, but hoo boy did that work 

Unfortunately still sitting at 75kgs, even after upping my diet to 2x60g protein shakes a day + 2 wholemeal chicken sandwiches and for dinner I'm usually having a chicken breast + Veggies. I try to have cereal for breakfast, but most days It's usually a muesli bar, shake & Banana.

Even with weight not going up I'm still improving aesthetically and in how much I can lift, also starting to show really well and get fairly veiny in the arms. Need to try and cut out snacks from work (I'm in charge of desserts as a chef, so I get too much excess fats) I've definitely cut back, but my stomach still isn't as showy as i'd like it to be, but getting there!


----------



## Alcoholocaust

A lot of stretching and ice and the pain is almost gone. I'm back doing pull movements and I'm going to start on some light presses tomorrow. Only a week and a bit off so i'm happy.
Definitely agree with you guys, i'll be doing a lot of warm ups from now on (especially on shoulders).


----------



## Winspear

Nice one Zac! Having a guess with the food you listed, your calories are probably still only coming to around 2400, depending what you do with the shakes. That's right about maintenance for a lot of people your weight. It's exactly mine. 
But indeed, aesthetic improvement is very possible! Since I started powerlifting and making weight for the 74kg class, I've gotten much leaner and put on a good amount of muscle (and huge amounts of strength) all whilst losing almost 5kg.


----------



## Fiction

Yeah thanks Tom, I'm just about to get real serious about my diet now that I really want to start to get ready for summer haha.


----------



## JeffFromMtl

This week, I saw my biggest jump in progress since I started my new plan. Weighed in at 162 lbs for a total gain of 9 lbs so far. My goal of 170 by the first week of september isn't looking unrealistic at all at this point  It'll be my first time weighing 170+ in 3 years!


----------



## kazzie

JeffFromMtl said:


> This week, I saw my biggest jump in progress since I started my new plan. Weighed in at 162 lbs for a total gain of 9 lbs so far. My goal of 170 by the first week of september isn't looking unrealistic at all at this point  It'll be my first time weighing 170+ in 3 years!



Come have Korean chicken with me


----------



## MikeH

I've started training to make Army basic a little easier on myself. And holy shit, it sucks. 300 yd swim, and a 1/4 mile ruck march with a 40 lb sandbag at a 15 incline on the treadmill after not doing cardio for the past how ever many years is like death. Granted it was after I trained legs, so I had a slight disadvantage, but still. I want to be able to do a 12 mile ruck march with the 40 by the time I leave.


----------



## UnattendedGolfcart

Right now I'm on week 7 of the Buff Dudes 12 week program. It's been going well for me, especially since it's the first really focused workout plan I've had. Once I'm done with it, I'm going to start it over again, upping the weight in every category.

I'm still a slim dude, but I've gained a little bit of weight, and I'm definitely seeing gains. 3-6 months ago my average weight was around 143, and now my average weight is like 151-152. When I get back to college, it'll be easier for me to constantly eat, since I have an erratic schedule at my summer job so it's not the easiest to have a set meal plan. I've been making protein shakes that have been helping me out though! I'm using Body Fortress Whey Isolate, with milk and a couple tablespoons of peanut butter. I calculated it to be around 650 calories and 75g of protein. I've been having one every day that I workout, just after I get home from the gym.

I'm proud of myself for sticking with this, I can't believe how much it's helped my self esteem already


----------



## MikeH

Good job, man.  It's a great feeling to see gains. Especially so early on. That's what fueled my decision to make fitness a big part of my life. Now, I'm going into the Army, so fitness will be the majority of my life.  I know everyone is different, but I'd really try to start eating more, if you've only gained 9 lbs in 6 months. I've been going for a little longer than that (around 7 months), and I've put on 31. Just when you think you've eaten enough, eat more. The best way to fuel muscle growth is to give them food.


----------



## UnattendedGolfcart

MikeH said:


> Good job, man.  It's a great feeling to see gains. Especially so early on. That's what fueled my decision to make fitness a big part of my life. Now, I'm going into the Army, so fitness will be the majority of my life.  I know everyone is different, but I'd really try to start eating more, if you've only gained 9 lbs in 6 months. I've been going for a little longer than that (around 7 months), and I've put on 31. Just when you think you've eaten enough, eat more. The best way to fuel muscle growth is to give them food.



Yeah definitely, that's my thing right now is focusing on eating more. I eat a good amount as it is but I think if I really want to gain weight I have to hit that point where I almost get sick of eating  I've probably gained 8-9lbs in the last 3 months rather than 6 honestly, since my weight stayed in the 140s for a very long time. I'll keep working on it!


----------



## Metaldestroyerdennis

So I started casually lifting in February once or twice a week and just recently 5 days a week but I feel like I'm not doing this "properly." I definitely don't eat enough and I don't eat right, and I don't feel like my workouts are structured enough. I have seen massive improvements in my arms over the last month, which really makes me want to do more but I'm not sure where to start. I've looked over at bodybuilding.com but there's so much there I'm not really sure where to begin. Should I take supplements of some kind? Can anyone help me pick a diet/workout plan? Recommend one? I'm happy to discuss this over PM so everyone isn't bothered with my noob questions.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

UnattendedGolfcart said:


> Yeah definitely, that's my thing right now is focusing on eating more. I eat a good amount as it is but I think if I really want to gain weight I have to hit that point where I almost get sick of eating  I've probably gained 8-9lbs in the last 3 months rather than 6 honestly, since my weight stayed in the 140s for a very long time. I'll keep working on it!



Sounds like you're doing well with the program .
The one thing I'll add, and you might already be getting it, is DOMS.

I've trained with many guys who just don't create that good soreness that sets in the next day after the workout.
It's an easy thing to get when you first start lifting, but after time you'll have to be creative and efficient in order to generate the DOMS without overdoing it.
It's easier to get in some muscle groups than others for some people.
It's always been harder and taken more volume to create it for myself when training the pulling motions.


----------



## UnattendedGolfcart

TRENCHLORD said:


> Sounds like you're doing well with the program .
> The one thing I'll add, and you might already be getting it, is DOMS.
> 
> I've trained with many guys who just don't create that good soreness that sets in the next day after the workout.
> It's an easy thing to get when you first start lifting, but after time you'll have to be creative and efficient in order to generate the DOMS without overdoing it.
> It's easier to get in some muscle groups than others for some people.
> It's always been harder and taken more volume to create it for myself when training the pulling motions.



What does DOMS stand for? But I do get the soreness nearly every day after I work out. Every body part that I workout is usually sore, or at least gets sore when I flex that body part. One way the last couple weeks I've been making sure to get it is that I've decreased the time I take between sets. I've been upping weight, but also, and maybe more importantly, upping the intensity of my workouts.

Oh forgot to mention I did 24 slow cross bench dips today with 75lbs of weight on my lap today for the first time. Gonna feel that in my tris tomorrow


----------



## TRENCHLORD

UnattendedGolfcart said:


> What does DOMS stand for? But I do get the soreness nearly every day after I work out. Every body part that I workout is usually sore, or at least gets sore when I flex that body part. One way the last couple weeks I've been making sure to get it is that I've decreased the time I take between sets. I've been upping weight, but also, and maybe more importantly, upping the intensity of my workouts.
> 
> Oh forgot to mention I did 24 slow cross bench dips today with 75lbs of weight on my lap today for the first time. Gonna feel that in my tris tomorrow




Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness (DOMS)

Decreasing rest time between sets is a great way to up intensity .
Intensity and rep-execution are probably the biggest keys to getting target muscle soreness.


----------



## MikeH

DOMS (delayed onset muscle soreness) is not the product of a "good workout". Just because you aren't sore, doesn't mean you didn't get it in. But on the contrary, just because you're sore, it doesn't mean you did. Consistency, constant increase of weight (where applicable. Don't sacrifice reps and form for weight), and more consistency are what will bring the gains.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

MikeH said:


> DOMS (delayed onset muscle soreness) is not the product of a "good workout". Just because you aren't sore, doesn't mean you didn't get it in. But on the contrary, just because you're sore, it doesn't mean you did. Consistency, constant increase of weight (where applicable. Don't sacrifice reps and form for weight), and more consistency are what will bring the gains.




I've read the same, but IME getting some soreness on the target muscle-group results in better results. (I'm talking about hypertrophy, not strength by the numbers)

It can easily be overdone though, which is why I take a lower volume higher intensity approach.

I've known soooo many guys at the gym who say they never get sore, and it's actually very evident by their lack of physique improvement.

DOMS is a fairly easy thing to get, but you have to be focused on feeling the target muscle/s doing all the work.






edit; I'd be curious to know if soreness (the good soreness, not joint pain/injury stuff) is something the rest of you guys strive for.
I've always noticed that active rest on recovery days helps flush and heal the damage. Lay around and you'll be so sore you can barely walk the day after a good squat session.


----------



## MikeH

Competed in an event today. Not a powerlifting event, but it was a charity event for the Brothers In Arms military charity, and the Toys For Tots charity. Did a push/pull event and hit two PRs. 230 bench and 376 deadlift. Opened bench with a 205. Went up like nothing, as expected. Second attempt was 230, but got red-lighted for lifting my ass up. Went for 230 again and hit it easy. I know that if I would have hit it on my first attempt, I could have gotten more, but I didn't want to overshoot my third attempt, so I just did 230 again. Deadlift opener was 326 (3 plates and 5.5 lb weight clip). Again, like nothing, as expected. Second was 356, which went up well. 376 was a grinder, but pretty consistent movement. Felt good to hit some PRs and hang with some really cool, and REALLY strong guys. Brandon Lilly was there. He only benched because he had knee surgery 4 weeks ago. But his opener was 500.  After that, he shot for a post-surgery PR at 545, but failed. All in all, it was a really fun day.

And, for those who don't know who Brandon Lilly is:







He's the creator of the Cube Method&#8230;.and a god damn beast.


----------



## MikeH

Started focusing on training to make basic a bit easier for myself. It really, _really_, *really* sucks.

1.5 mile run (took 15 minutes exactly. Need some serious improvement here)
80 sit-ups
75 push-ups
31 bench reps at 135 lbs
6 sets of 10 at 100 lbs on the fly machine

All working to pass my PT part of basic training. Shoot for 100% or don't shoot at all, right?


----------



## Winspear

Shit man congrats on the pushpull! I still can't get that damn 220 bench haha!

First heavy day back in training after my comp today. Was only able to hit half my reps on squats and 3/4 on bench with planned weights. Deadlifts were solid though! Hoping Friday pans out better.


----------



## MikeH

Ran an 8:13 mile, then worked legs, then did timed push-ups. Dead. Went something like:

8:13 mile
Squats: 3x10 @ 185
Calf Raises: 3x15 @ 225
Leg Extension: 3x12 @ 175
Ham Curl: 3x12 @ 135
Hip Adductors: 3x15 @ 200
Hip Abductors: 3x15 @ 180
Barbell Lunges: 3x20 @ 105
Leg Press: 3x12 @ 320
Timed push-ups: 65 @ 2:00

The push-ups put me at a 92% for PT in basic. Which, if I can get up to 71, that's 100%. Anything after that is bonus points, so hopefully that will carry over to my run time. I know that you still have to get a 16:36 2-mile, but if I get that, I can at least use the push-ups to add to my overall score.


----------



## Cabinet

So I am stepping into a gym for the first time in years, and this is the first gym I'm in that has a squat rack and a power rack.
So of course, I want to do strong lifts 5 x 5.
If you aren't familiar, it's 3 compound lifts every other day, adding 5 lbs each workout day.

It looks like this:
Monday:
Squat 5 x 5
Bench press 5 x 5
Barbell row 5 x 5

Tuesday [rest]

Wednesday:
Squat 5 x 5
Overhead press 5 x 5
Deadlift 5 x 5

And repeat.

I'm starting off basically nothing, and because of my back issues, it's caused numerous complications, especially with my squat form (flat feet, knees bend inward).
So I started last week with literally just the barbell and am making positive progress towards my first milestone: a 1 plate (90 lbs) squat not including the barbell.

Today I'll load 35 lbs on the barbell for the squat, 10 lbs for the overhead press, and dead lift 80 lbs. Progress progress progress!


----------



## MikeH

Huge fan of SL5x5. Added about 30 lbs to my working weight squat, and 15 to my 1RM. Great program.


----------



## UCBmetal

MikeH said:


> Huge fan of SL5x5. Added about 30 lbs to my working weight squat, and 15 to my 1RM. Great program.



I just came to the forum to see if anyone's been doing the SL thang. Yes!

Have you found good success in the back department with the bent-over rows? Especially after squats, I feel like weighted P/U's or even one arm rows might be a better and safer option for 5x5


----------



## MikeH

They worked okay for me, but I got a greater contraction and felt like I got more out of wide-grip pull-ups. Still did bent rows, but I didn't feel them nearly as much.


----------



## UCBmetal

MikeH said:


> They worked okay for me, but I got a greater contraction and felt like I got more out of wide-grip pull-ups. Still did bent rows, but I didn't feel them nearly as much.




That's what I'm thinking too, weight belt here I come


----------



## Cabinet

I am not feeling the row in my back as much, but I do feel my back being worked pretty hard on my bench press. I'm working up to a stable 1 plate bent over row and then I'll start doing pull ups and see how that goes.


----------



## UnattendedGolfcart

Today I drove to my gym at 5:30 and somehow forgot they closed at 4...So I had to do some home tricep workouts using only a set of either 8lb or 25lb dumbbells. Still think I did an alright job for myself, I made sure to squeeze the hell out of my tris every chance I could mid-rep.

Standing French Press 4x15 w/25lbs
Cross Bench Dips 3x12 w/50lbs in lap
Single Arm Dumbbell Press 3x12 right arm, 3x10 left arm w/25lbs (right pec is a bit smaller and I want to fix that)
Kickbacks 4x15 w/8lbs
Dumbbell equivalent of cable flys 4x12 w/25lbs
Then ended it with a quick set of 30 pushups.

I also have a question for you guys, I'm pretty thin as I've said before (lower 150s), but the only place I can see that I would have any fat that I could noticeably lose is on my sides and lower stomach. If I started doing consistent cardio, I know that would help, but would it hinder me making gains at all? If I still ate a ton of food but consumed as little fat as possible and made sure everything I'm eating had some sort of purpose for my body, would I be able to make gains and gain weight while simultaneously shedding the thin layer of fat I have over my abs?

Sorry if that's a noob question, I just still haven't gotten a straight answer on that.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

UnattendedGolfcart said:


> Sorry if that's a noob question, I just still haven't gotten a straight answer on that.




Yes, you could, but things (macros) would really have to be dialed in tight to do so (for most people anyways).


----------



## MikeH

Saturated fats will be where you need to cut. Your body still needs unsaturated fats to support healthy organ function. Not a ton, but don't eliminate fats completely. As far as losing it, the cardio will help, but so will consistent lifting. Putting both together will do good things.


----------



## Cabinet

UnattendedGolfcart said:


> Today I drove to my gym at 5:30 and somehow forgot they closed at 4...So I had to do some home tricep workouts using only a set of either 8lb or 25lb dumbbells. Still think I did an alright job for myself, I made sure to squeeze the hell out of my tris every chance I could mid-rep.
> 
> Standing French Press 4x15 w/25lbs
> Cross Bench Dips 3x12 w/50lbs in lap
> Single Arm Dumbbell Press 3x12 right arm, 3x10 left arm w/25lbs (right pec is a bit smaller and I want to fix that)
> Kickbacks 4x15 w/8lbs
> Dumbbell equivalent of cable flys 4x12 w/25lbs
> Then ended it with a quick set of 30 pushups.
> 
> I also have a question for you guys, I'm pretty thin as I've said before (lower 150s), but the only place I can see that I would have any fat that I could noticeably lose is on my sides and lower stomach. If I started doing consistent cardio, I know that would help, but would it hinder me making gains at all? If I still ate a ton of food but consumed as little fat as possible and made sure everything I'm eating had some sort of purpose for my body, would I be able to make gains and gain weight while simultaneously shedding the thin layer of fat I have over my abs?
> 
> Sorry if that's a noob question, I just still haven't gotten a straight answer on that.


You can do cardio and still build muscular endurance and strength. Look at swimmers, they are ....ing jacked. Swimming is the best form of cardio because it removes the stress on your joints you'd get from say, running. It's a full body exercise and while you aren't doing what your body does when you load up a barbell, you'll still burn fat without losing dem gainz.

If you don't have access to a pool, walk. I lost a lot of weight quickly just by walking around 4 miles 4 days a week.

For diet, cut out standard American processed foods. Frozen dinners, twinkies, doritos. Buy vegetables, meats, dairy, and fruits. The sugars and excess carbohydrates are what will get to you. If you are going to eat grains, eat quinoa and wild rice.


----------



## UnderTheSign

MikeH said:


> Huge fan of SL5x5. Added about 30 lbs to my working weight squat, and 15 to my 1RM. Great program.


You run it with some accesory work though right, and I take it you didn't start the program with just the bar?



Cabinet said:


> I am not feeling the row in my back as much, but I do feel my back being worked pretty hard on my bench press. I'm working up to a stable 1 plate bent over row and then I'll start doing pull ups and see how that goes.


One trick I learned (from Elitefts I think) was pull with the shoulder blades first, squeeze them, then move your arms. Focus on the lats moving your arms from there.


----------



## Winspear

^ Awesome tip. I find underhand grip helps 'bring the elbows together' more too.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

One of the best total back moves ever IMO is cable/bowflex seated rows using the rotating handle-grips.
They let you stretch forward to the point where the palms face down and then as you pull back and squeeze the shoulder blades your hands can rotate all the way to under-grip for a total peak contraction with the back completely arched (chest and belly sticking way out and the hands way back).


----------



## Winspear

That sounds incredible..Need me one of those


----------



## MikeH

UnderTheSign said:


> You run it with some accesory work though right, and I take it you didn't start the program with just the bar?



Minimal accessory work. On deadlift days, I always do wide-grip pull-ups. Then I would throw in some high volume leg work one day a week. Bench days were usually coupled with dumbbell flys, triceps rope pull-downs, and dips. And no, I started a little higher than I should have. Squat was around 185, bench at 135, and deadlift at 225. I recommend starting at around 50% of your 1RM.


----------



## UnderTheSign

MikeH said:


> Minimal accessory work. On deadlift days, I always do wide-grip pull-ups. Then I would throw in some high volume leg work one day a week. Bench days were usually coupled with dumbbell flys, triceps rope pull-downs, and dips. And no, I started a little higher than I should have. Squat was around 185, bench at 135, and deadlift at 225. I recommend starting at around 50% of your 1RM.


Yeah, figured as much. I've been dicking around the past few months but don't really feel like starting with bar only. Since I'm joining a PL gym next month and finally will have a squat rack again I think I'm gonna do SL and just start with weights I can usually do for 8-10+ reps.


----------



## MikeH

I'd say whatever you can do for 3x8 is a good starting point.


----------



## icos211

Been out of the gym for almost 2 weeks, first because of a vacation and now because of RA training taking up every second that the Recreation Center is open. Right before the break I hit a 185 1 rep max on the bench, which means I officially can bench my bodyweight. I was proud as hell of that. I'm really bummed that I had to take such a break, and my diet has been shit for all of it. I can't wait until next week when I'll be able to get back into it and kick my diet back into gear, hopefully gaining a few lifting buddies to finally spot me so I can go big on my big lifts too.


----------



## gunshow86de

Anybody else like making little spreadsheets of their day's workout? I like to put little motivational pictures on my spreadsheets.


----------



## Winspear

Awesome

I have spreadsheets for just about all parts of my life, I really enjoy them 
For a standard progression program I always spreadsheet the entire thing, not individual workouts. I'll have the day splits etc and in each week say I'm aiming for 6-8 reps in an exercise, I'll colour the cell green if I got all 8 so I know to put the weight up next week, etc. 
At the moment I'm on a powerlifting program using %'s based on 1 rep maxes, so of course I made a super nerdy spreadsheet where I can just type my maxes in a box at the top and it will give me all the weight + reps to do for the next few months


----------



## gunshow86de

^

I have a separate sheet to track the percentages for each lift over the weeks/months of whatever program I'm doing. But accessory/conditioning work varies each workout, depending on how I feel that day. So I just open a quick sheet and jot everything down (and yes, things get saved in the "Do you even lift, bro" folder.


----------



## MikeH

I need to get more formal with my tracking. Being on Stronglifts was nice because I had an iPhone app that I used to track my progress. Since coming off of SL, I've just been following a loose routine. I still have my squat/bench/deadlift days, but the accessory work is just sort of "do this exercise for this many reps at a weight that feels challenging on that day". No real method to it, which I need to change.

Also, I really need to get back to tightening up my diet. I let it go for a while because I was just bulking to bulk. Now I want to feel good while bulking, so I need to really calm it down on the shit food.


----------



## Winspear

Yeah, on that kind of program I always just liked to keep to a simple rep range system, say 6-8. If I lift 20kg for 7-6-6 say one week, I'll use the same weight until I get 8-8-8 and then it goes up again. You can have a bad day and do less reps but I'd always keep the weight where it should be unless something is seriously wrong. I think it's easier to push yourself that way when the weight is set and you have a rep goal and a rep history, whereas if the weight is flexible and the reps are set it's easy to hit your reps and believe you couldn't have done it with more weight when you could have.


----------



## MikeH

3x8? I've been doing 5x12.  Really been focusing on endurance over weight. The Army is going to kill me otherwise.


----------



## Winspear

Whatever suits it man same principle! That sounds like hell haha nice! I'd probably do 10-12 and just put the weight up when you hit all sets of 12. I guess it would take quite a while to work up to all sets of 12 again on the next weight with that much volume haha!


----------



## Cabinet

I passed my plateau on the over head press by not upping the weight on my squat, so I had more energy for it (at least that was my reasoning)
Sadly I haven't lifted in days due to injury


----------



## MikeH

Day 2 of Smolov Jr. and I want to die. I haven't even squatted today, but I'm that sore from day 1. What have I gotten myself into?


----------



## Winspear

MikeH said:


> Day 2 of Smolov Jr. and I want to die. I haven't even squatted today, but I'm that sore from day 1. What have I gotten myself into?



I really look forward to trying it hahahah. Not going to this year, maybe around February


----------



## MikeH

Well, I skipped today anyways because I had prior obligations. Tomorrow, though.


----------



## soliloquy

okay, so perhaps this is a technical question...
i'm not sure what i've changed in my diets or workouts, but something has drastically changed with my recovery.
before, i used to be fully healed in about 3ish days, give or take. if, for example, i did chest and upper back on monday, by wednesday or thursday i'd be fully healed. all my supporting muscles like arms would be fully healed too.

however, the last 3 weeks, maybe a month, my recovery is lasting about 8 days, that includes my supporting muscles. thats really dragging my time in the gym as if i've worked out my chest/upper back on monday, wednesys are my legs and lower back days and fridays are my arms and abs day. my biceps and triceps are crazy tired and sore to even make it to the gym on friday. 

sure, i've boosted my protein. i've also boosted my intensity and i'm no longer wasting as much time as i used to in the gym. 

and i usually do 3 or 4 sets of 8-10. each muscle group usually getting 3-5 different exercise to hit each and every angle. if i lifted a weight too heavy and i over estimated, then i go for 5 sets of 5 reps. but mainly i go for 3-4 sets of 8-10. 

prior to me getting injured and heading back to the gym, i used to mainly focus on 5x5. not sure if its the 8-10 reps that is draining me....

any advice? it cant be my diet as i haven't really noticed a lot of weight loss. not sure....


----------



## MikeH

Switching from 5x5 to 3-4x8-10 will make you hurt. Your muscles are more geared towards heavy movement in shorter amounts, as opposed to endurance. Also, siginifcant sleep may be an issue. I know that if I don't sleep enough, my recovery sucks.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

soliloquy said:


> and i usually do 3 or 4 sets of 8-10. each muscle group usually getting 3-5 different exercise to hit each and every angle. if i lifted a weight too heavy and i over estimated, then i go for 5 sets of 5 reps. but mainly i go for 3-4 sets of 8-10.




Just cut down on the volume.
You don't really need to hit every angle every workout, maybe do 2-3 moves for 2-3 sets each.


----------



## Winspear

Yeah. 8 days still sounds incredibly extreme to me though. On high volume I'd expect 4 maybe from a heavy leg day at worst. You may have upped your protein but how much are you getting? Sleep as mentioned could do it too. Enough water? 
Also stretching after the workout generally helps.


----------



## Winspear

Been dreading today for a while - first time deadlifting above the weight I failed badly in competition 6 weeks back. Got 2x2 and it was a breeze! Next Friday, 2x2 on my current PB of 180kg


----------



## soliloquy

MikeH said:


> Switching from 5x5 to 3-4x8-10 will make you hurt. Your muscles are more geared towards heavy movement in shorter amounts, as opposed to endurance. Also, siginifcant sleep may be an issue. I know that if I don't sleep enough, my recovery sucks.



maybe its sleep. i've been taking chamomile tea for last few days and it has helped sleep quiet a bit. 



EtherealEntity said:


> Yeah. 8 days still sounds incredibly extreme to me though. On high volume I'd expect 4 maybe from a heavy leg day at worst. You may have upped your protein but how much are you getting? Sleep as mentioned could do it too. Enough water?
> Also stretching after the workout generally helps.



before my injury when i was working out regularly, i was getting about 100 grams protein from whey, and about 30-40 from food i've been consuming all day. after the injury, now that i'm getting back into it, i've boosted that to 150 grams from whey and 30-40ish from food. i weigh in between 165-180. my body weight fluctuates. as of late its in the high 170's.


----------



## Winspear

That's plenty! I can only recommend less volume and stretching. 
When I was doing a split I liked 4 exercises for chest, back, legs, and shoulders, and 2 for arms. 3 sets on each. 
I did bench press, incline press, flys and cable flys. Military press, arnold press, front raises and side raises. Deadlifts, pullups, rows and pulldowns. Squats, leg press, leg curl and calf press. Tricep dip, closegrip bench, curl and hammer curl.


----------



## UnquestionablePresence

I have yet to post in this thread, until now.

Finally getting into the groove of lifting at school. Was a bit of a shock at first, but now that I am used to it I appreciate the pros that it has. I am way more focused in the school weight room than I am at home in my basement. If I had to guess what the cause of this is I would say that the time constraints play a big role. I tend to dick around a lot in between sets at home, but we barely have enough time to get all of our sets in during the class period. My lifts took a hit because of the shorter rest periods, but my squat is just 2 training days away from roughly being back to where it was. 

The increased intensity brought about by the forced shorter rest periods have been nothing but a boon after taking the time to acclimate. Also, lifting at school exposed me to higher volume. Before this year began I never did sets longer than 5 reps except for chin ups. I have started to slowly gain weight again, not sure if it is because of the higher intensity and higher volume I am subjected to at school or if it is diet-related, but I'm happy either way. 

I'm predicting that when it comes time to test our maxes that I will be setting a school squat record in my weight class, so yay for me.


----------



## MikeH

Yesterday was day 4 of squat training. My first two days were accidentally the actual Smolov 13-week cycle exercises. Started the Smolov Jr. 3-week cycle on Monday. Yesterday was 7x5 @ 235 lbs. First set, 3rd rep. Threw the hips back, squatted down, and felt a pop...

Now, this wasn't a bone, muscle, or tendon...

My brand new, as in first day of wearing them, boxers split from waist band all the way to the bottom seam. 

Dat squat butt, tho.


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## MikeH

I love listening to/reading Jim Wendler's material. I want to be like this guy.


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## icos211

So I've returned to my college Rec center, only to find myself surrounded by guys who can bench more than I deadlift. I've been feeling like I need to get stronger for a long time now, so I've finally taken the initiative and gave up my body building program in favor of Stronglifts 5x5.

I just finished day 2, and man, it sucked. I was done in 20 minutes! And the weight it has me starting out with is so light I'm embarrassed to even be seen in the gym! I know a few of you have talked about it before, but is this really going to work? Because I feel like I'm not doing anything and that cutting my workouts down so much and staying with a calorie surplus diet is going to make me get really fat. If I can get seriously stronger then that's fine, but so far I'm not too confident.


----------



## MikeH

Added roughly 50 lbs to my deadlift, 45 lbs to my bench, and 30 lbs to my squat on 6 weeks of SL5X5. It works.


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## UnquestionablePresence

icos211 said:


> So I've returned to my college Rec center, only to find myself surrounded by guys who can bench more than I deadlift. I've been feeling like I need to get stronger for a long time now, so I've finally taken the initiative and gave up my body building program in favor of Stronglifts 5x5.
> 
> I just finished day 2, and man, it sucked. I was done in 20 minutes! And the weight it has me starting out with is so light I'm embarrassed to even be seen in the gym! I know a few of you have talked about it before, but is this really going to work? Because I feel like I'm not doing anything and that cutting my workouts down so much and staying with a calorie surplus diet is going to make me get really fat. If I can get seriously stronger then that's fine, but so far I'm not too confident.



Simply Sub-Optimal: Dont Do StrongLifts 5x5 for Powerlifting | PowerliftingToWin 

Go down to the "Programming" sub-heading, and read "The Worst Thing About Stronglifts" I myself was not challenged very much when I first started lifting until I put 170-ish on the bar for squats and 225-ish on the bar for deadlifts. Now I'm not claiming to be an expert, but I agree with the article when it says that that amount of time spent with lighter weights in the name of learning "perfect form" (Never going to happen, there is always something you can improve on and that's acceptable) is ridiculous. I'm not saying you should walk into the gym with a complete disregard for safe technique, but realize that ugly technique is bound to happen every now and then if you push yourself. If what you are doing is eventually going to result in injury, more likely than not you will know. You will feel it. You need to tap into progressive overload to make progress, and it's hard to do that when you are lifting weights WAY lighter than what is challenging for you. 

Now, to address another one of your questions, most likely you will get stronger on this program. I brought my squat from about 220x5 to 275x5 without a hitch over the summer with 3 sets of 5, 3 days out of the week. I wasn't even doing deadlifts at the time. That's all I was doing for my lower body and I made that amount of progress in that period of time. It works. You don't need to hit your legs/arms/whatever from every angle known to man and some that man doesn't know to make progress. At least at this point. 

Will you get fat? That's debatable. On programs like this some people do, some people don't. Although people get fat on the bodybuilding type programs you mentioned, too. Weigh yourself regularly. If you start putting on something absurd like 3+ pounds a week, cut back on the food. 

I'd say get any concerns you may have about your program sorted out ASAP so that way you can be confident in the program you are doing, or find another program that you are confident in. If you jump from program to program you probably won't make progress.


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## MikeH

I never lifted weights that were way lighter than what would challenge me. I started off with a comfortable squat weight (~185) and worked my way up from there.


----------



## MikeH

Gym was closed today, so I took it upon myself to test my Air Force PT requirements.

General Standards:
1.5 mile run: 13:36
Push-ups/minute: 33
Sit-ups/minute: 42

TACP Standards:
10:47
Pull-ups: 6
40
48

Personal:
12:00
8
55
48

Currently pass all general standards, but need to get my run time down for TACP. I feel like I'm currently on the right track. Just have to run more.


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## UnquestionablePresence

Lifting at school is starting to suck . Things come up and I end up missing sets and reps because of how tight time is in there. It's not like at home where I can make myself get in all sets before I put the weights away. I have 7 minutes to do my squat sets. Wouldn't be a big problem if he wasn't wanting us to progress linearly pushing circa-maximal weights all the time.

Before school started I was progressing on bench slow and steadily and my squat was starting to slow down after skyrocketing. Now? I have no clue. Too many variables being switched around on me The order of exercises is totally ....ed, and I end up doing things like squatting LAST in a lower body work out after doing glute ham raises and ab work. We cycle which exercise we do first quite often. I find it REALLY hard to gauge if I am making progress or not at the moment because obviously my bench numbers are going to be different if I bench after dips and dumbbell presses compared to when I bench fresh. Oh well, I can probably drop it next semester...hopefully.

I'd much rather lift at home where everything is under my control and not under the control of a "coach" who probably doesn't have any qualifications to speak of aside from his degree in teaching and history. Should've thought this through more before I signed up for this class XD. I dunno. I might find a way to get my bench and squat sets in my way.


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## TRENCHLORD

UnquestionablePresence said:


> Lifting at school is starting to suck . Things come up and I end up missing sets and reps because of how tight time is in there. It's not like at home where I can make myself get in all sets before I put the weights away. I have 7 minutes to do my squat sets. Wouldn't be a big problem if he wasn't wanting us to progress linearly pushing circa-maximal weights all the time.
> 
> Before school started I was progressing on bench slow and steadily and my squat was starting to slow down after skyrocketing. Now? I have no clue. Too many variables being switched around on me The order of exercises is totally ....ed, and I end up doing things like squatting LAST in a lower body work out after doing glute ham raises and ab work. We cycle which exercise we do first quite often. I find it REALLY hard to gauge if I am making progress or not at the moment because obviously my bench numbers are going to be different if I bench after dips and dumbbell presses compared to when I bench fresh. Oh well, I can probably drop it next semester...hopefully.
> 
> I'd much rather lift at home where everything is under my control and not under the control of a "coach" who probably doesn't have any qualifications to speak of aside from his degree in teaching and history. Should've thought this through more before I signed up for this class XD. I dunno. I might find a way to get my bench and squat sets in my way.




Shaking up the order of lifts can actually be helpful to long-term progress, but I can certainly see how the rest of the class-hoopla(the way coach wants things done , and the distraction of so many other lifters cramming sets) being a huge obstacle.
Like those times when you just need a couple extra warmups or ladders to acclimate to the work-set weight. (sorry man, time for the next station)
My home setup is fairly primitive, but it does allow for much more focus and as you say "control" over the entire environment, not the least of which is the metal-jams.


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## UnderTheSign

So I occasionally get very sore quads in the middle of squatting. I'll warm up with bar x10, add half plates from there and it happens anywhere between bar and 135 so it's not like I'm pushing heavy weights there. I don't static stretch before training and have tried dynamic stretches, warming up with leg presses/extensions but nothing changed. Any ideas?


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## MikeH

How long are you stretching? I spend a good 10+ minutes in the stretching rack at my gym before squatting, which has been every day lately. Also, give foam rolling a try. And don't forget to stretch between sets.


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## UnderTheSign

Do you stretch dynamic or static pre/intra? 
I usually bike to the gym so that's 15-20 mins of warming up to me, then 5-10 minutes of stretches. Tried Agile 8 for a while but didn't do much either. I also already foam roll my quads/IT bands multiple days a week, sometimes daily


----------



## UnattendedGolfcart

Did bis and tris today.

Barbell Curls: 4x15, sets 1-2 were 5 wide, 5 medium, 5 close grip, last 2 sets were 5 wide and 10 close grip. 50lbs
Kickbacks: 4x12 @ 15lbs
Barbell Skull Crusher: 4x12 @ 40lbs
Alternating Dumbbell Curls: 10,8,6,6 each arm @ 25lbs
Bilateral Hammer Curls: 4x12 @ 25lbs
Rope Pulldown: 4x12 @ 120lbs
Reverse Barbell Curls: 3 sets of 10,8,8 @ 40lbs.

Feels good going to the gym back at college. Most days I got with my friends so even if we're not working together the whole time we make each other go.


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## MikeH

UnderTheSign said:


> Do you stretch dynamic or static pre/intra?
> I usually bike to the gym so that's 15-20 mins of warming up to me, then 5-10 minutes of stretches. Tried Agile 8 for a while but didn't do much either. I also already foam roll my quads/IT bands multiple days a week, sometimes daily



Typically static. Keep it relatively simple. Hit all the basic quad and ham stretches, butterflies for the groin, some hip turns, and today I just started doing spiderman stretches between sets. Didn't notice a world of difference, but it helped keep my hams loose, which I always have problems with.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

UnderTheSign said:


> So I occasionally get very sore quads in the middle of squatting. I'll warm up with bar x10, add half plates from there and it happens anywhere between bar and 135 so it's not like I'm pushing heavy weights there. I don't static stretch before training and have tried dynamic stretches, warming up with leg presses/extensions but nothing changed. Any ideas?




Sounds like lactic acid buildup to me. Probably wouldn't happen if you walked instead of rode in. Maybe


----------



## UnquestionablePresence

TRENCHLORD said:


> Shaking up the order of lifts can actually be helpful to long-term progress, but I can certainly see how the rest of the class-hoopla(the way coach wants things done , and the distraction of so many other lifters cramming sets) being a huge obstacle.
> Like those times when you just need a couple extra warmups or ladders to acclimate to the work-set weight. (sorry man, time for the next station)
> My home setup is fairly primitive, but it does allow for much more focus and as you say "control" over the entire environment, not the least of which is the metal-jams.



Yeah, some days I can deal with it, but others I am just not ready to go 100% HAM and bust out 3 sets with weight that I need to be liberally "spotted" with during the last few reps of the 2nd and 3rd sets . ATM I have no way of knowing for sure if I am just hitting a bump in the road or if the school's way of doing things is screwing me over.

Oh well, it isn't the WORST thing. I'm not competing or anything, so as long as I am getting bigger and stronger over time I can't complain too much. No rush.


----------



## Kidneythief

Well now...about 4 months since I started my 2-times a week plan, and while the effects aren't as stunning as they would be if I had 3 occasions a week I'm still happy for myself.

I also fixed my diet more or less (cheat days include my mom's home cooking  ), and that and off-course exercise helped me gain weight. I went from 64Kg to 69Kg, I'm quite sure that it isn't all muscle, but I'm already looking better, and not like a twig that you can snap in two 

Question though; what can/could I do to improve my "back-strength"?

When I'm home I either go running, or or do exercises at home. I bought a bar that I can fix between the door frame, and while chin-ups are going pretty good I'm having trouble with regular pull-ups. Or any tips on how to improve that?


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## UnderTheSign

Just get stronger. Pullups (/pulldown machine if you can't), deadlifts, rows.


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## MikeH

Keep doing pullups. Same as anything. Want to get a stronger bench? Bench more. Want a stronger deadlift? Deadlift more. Want a stronger squat? Squat more. Just be consistent and the strength will come. 

Side note: This will be my new winter hoodie.
Gains Hoodie | Lifter


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## Winspear

Nice! I need some gym hoodies 

Yeah just keep trying pullups. Something that works well if you really struggle is jumping up an then controlling the descent. These are known as negatives.


----------



## Winspear

I tried Farmers Walks today. I'll be doing them a LOT more, awesome stuff!


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## UnquestionablePresence

I hit 315 for an EASY double today squatting at school.

Wouldn't be too surprised if I can hit 350 when it comes time to max out next week.


----------



## Bilbone Shaggins

I just started lifting again after a long hiatus. Do you guys generally find that it's best to practice/play guitar before working out (as opposed to afterwards), when possible? I've been noticing that DOMS lasts longer on my right side for some reason (I'm assuming it's due to picking).


----------



## TRENCHLORD

Bilbone Shaggins said:


> I just started lifting again after a long hiatus. Do you guys generally find that it's best to practice/play guitar before working out (as opposed to afterwards), when possible? I've been noticing that DOMS lasts longer on my right side for some reason (I'm assuming it's due to picking).



Physically speaking it's probably better to play before lifting as all the intense gripping can cause cramping for some people, myself included.
On the other hand, training usually improves my mood and creativity (more blood to the brain).

It seems that as long as I get some quality jam time on most days that the hand cramping isn't compounded by the lifting, but if I'm not very regular with the guitar practice the lifting will give me the iron-claw like George Lynch talks about .


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## JeffFromMtl

Fvck, I've been out of the gym for a week now because of a sublaxated shoulder. I'm getting antsy, man.


----------



## soliloquy

AND just like that...i'm injured YET A FU*KING AGAIN!
this time my tendon on my left knee is stretched beyond normal capacity and would need physiotherapy to get it fixed. its almost as if universe is telling me NOT to do any physical activity. every time i see some decent gains, i get injured and sidelined for a few months/year and it pushes me further behind where i started from. 

hopefully yoga wont injure once my knee heals and it'll be something i can use to get back to the gym...eventually...


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## BrainArt

So, I did some more research into it and have decided that while I do have back problems, they aren't what is causing my inability to move the day after squatting, my having bad form is.

I'm going to start squatting and working on form; I'll probably also have my brother-in-law take my phone and record me during my sets so I can watch and critique what I'm doing more thoroughly.

It will be a while, because money is tight, so I haven't been able to get back to the gym for a while.


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## MikeH

I'm going to go ahead and assume it's because you have a weak core. Not to put you down in any way. I have weak as f_u_ck hamstrings. Staying super tight in your core will help keep your back straight and avoid collapsing you forward, which basically makes you do a good morning, hence why your back hurts. Start box squatting. One of my buddies who I train with was terrified of going anywhere below parallel when he first started squatting, so I had him do box squats for about 4 weeks. Now he hits ATG every time. They also help you sit back into the squat, which again, will help keep your back straight.


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## Ibanezsam4

BrainArt said:


> So, I did some more research into it and have decided that while I do have back problems, they aren't what is causing my inability to move the day after squatting, my having bad form is.
> 
> I'm going to start squatting and working on form; I'll probably also have my brother-in-law take my phone and record me during my sets so I can watch and critique what I'm doing more thoroughly.
> 
> It will be a while, because money is tight, so I haven't been able to get back to the gym for a while.



try also working on bar placement. I did all the above advice for years and i've always tweaked my lower back above 300lbs. Turns out doing a high bar squat like most wasn't right for my build. moved to low bar, and now everything feels more locked in. 

also, practice diaphragmatic breathing. Taking in the big breath into your gut and compressing helps give you a ton of support


----------



## Chickenhawk

Little bit of bragging:

I took a break from lifting a couple months ago. Excuses, excuses, ran more, more martial arts, more calisthenics, less lifting. Oh well.

Just started lifting again last week. Taking it slow and easy to get back into it. Well, deadlift day came around. Felt my mobility was beyond decent, strength felt like it was there, so I loaded up 225 and crushed 10 reps. Decided to ignore the programming and plan for the day, loaded up 315, and did 2x5 (odd, I know, but it felt good).

Most I've ever pulled for reps . I've never really sought after heavy weight on deadlift, as I've always done a lot of accessory and variations (romanian deadlift is probably my favorite movement), but now I'm hooked.

I haven't a clue what my max is, but I'm going to fit a deadlift day in every week (like I should have been doing this entire time, instead of pushing the heavy compound to the back burner), and see where I'm at by the end of spring. Hopefully pulling 315 for big reps, and damn close to 500 for max. 

Maybe wishful thinking


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## MikeH

Deadlift master race.  There's no more satisfying lift to me than the deadlift. Squats are awesome, I fucking hate benching, and deadlifts are the best. It's a purely primal lift, and there's no real trick to it (outside of the obvious use of technique to not ruin your back). Put heavy thing on bar, lift heavy thing. That's pretty much it. 315 for reps is solid, especially since you say you never really focused on a strong DL. 500 may be wishful thinking, but you never know until you try. My 5-rep max is roughly around 335, and I've only pulled 400 once, so it's all dependent upon the person. Grats on the personal record!


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## Chickenhawk

MikeH said:


> Deadlift master race.  There's no more satisfying lift to me than the deadlift. Squats are awesome, I fucking hate benching, and deadlifts are the best. It's a purely primal lift, and there's no real trick to it (outside of the obvious use of technique to not ruin your back). Put heavy thing on bar, lift heavy thing. That's pretty much it. 315 for reps is solid, especially since you say you never really focused on a strong DL. 500 may be wishful thinking, but you never know until you try. My 5-rep max is roughly around 335, and I've only pulled 400 once, so it's all dependent upon the person. Grats on the personal record!



I don't flat bench  I just tell people I hate it, and don't do it, but it's mostly because I screwed my shoulder up years ago, and never rehabed it properly (or at all). It makes strange noises under load. Once I get a workout partner I'm going to fix my bench, and actually start doing them. I substitute with dumbells, both flat and incline. Just never heavy.

I'm so-so about squatting. I understand the importance, and I have no reason not to squat, so I do...but I'm never excited. Except to show the wanna-be powerlifters (just fat guys in my gym that rarely actually lift...but call themselves powerlifters ) what a squat SHOULD be (full depth, explosive movements, etc.)...not the 1/4 squat-part-good-morning they all seem to do. 

But then there's deadlift. I. F_u_cking. Love. Deadlift. 500 might be wishful thinking, but oh well. I'll try. I don't really get discouraged for not hitting my goals, since I usually set my sights on some fairly un-achievable things. Least I'll be headed in the right direction.


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## MikeH

I loved squatting for a while. Then, I did Smolov Jr. and&#8230;well, I just _like_ it.  And yeah, nothing pisses me off more than guys that gloat about a 455 squat, but never break a 100º angle at the knees. Ass to grass, or don't squat. I gave sumo deadlifts a shot tonight, after never really liking them. Actually enjoyed them. Hit 325 for 5 sets of 2 reps, and then 345 off of blocks for 3 sets of 2 reps. Thinking I can hit 385 for a 1RM. Might try it in the next couple weeks.


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## UnquestionablePresence

Whoever popularized the bench can go straight to hell. 330 squat (Grabbed the school squat record for juniors/seniors 151-175 with that, don't think I mentioned that in this thread), 375 deadlift, and...165 bench here. I've moved on to heavier rep work with my squat and deadlift since I tested those numbers (About 2 weeks ago). Bench...not so much . 

I would just lower the weight and build back up, but that's not an option with this weights coach XD. He's trying to build "mental toughness" as well. Makes things interesting. For example, if you want to tell him that you aren't going to be going up in weight, DON'T YOU DARE say it's "too hard", "too heavy", "too anything", because that sounds too whiny for his tastes and he will bump you up in weight anyways. My lifting partner makes that mistake all the time. Poor guy. So I am missing reps left and right on bench. Oh well. I'll catch up some day and fake barely getting sets so that I can avoid running myself into the ground each and every set. See how that works.


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

UnquestionablePresence said:


> Whoever popularized the bench can go straight to hell. 330 squat (Grabbed the school squat record for juniors/seniors 151-175 with that, don't think I mentioned that in this thread), 375 deadlift, and...165 bench here. I've moved on to heavier rep work with my squat and deadlift since I tested those numbers (About 2 weeks ago). Bench...not so much .



Know that feel, converting into lbs 330 dead, 260 squat and 160 bench here hahahaha


----------



## MikeH

Everyone says my numbers are fairly proportionate (400 deadlift, 375 squat, 230 bench), but it just doesn't feel like it. Especially when a buddy my size is benching 295. Though, he only squats 225 and deadlifts 315. Aiming for 255 by the end of the year.


----------



## BrainArt

MikeH said:


> I'm going to go ahead and assume it's because you have a weak core. Not to put you down in any way. I have weak as f_u_ck hamstrings. Staying super tight in your core will help keep your back straight and avoid collapsing you forward, which basically makes you do a good morning, hence why your back hurts. Start box squatting. One of my buddies who I train with was terrified of going anywhere below parallel when he first started squatting, so I had him do box squats for about 4 weeks. Now he hits ATG every time. They also help you sit back into the squat, which again, will help keep your back straight.



I take no offense at all, there's no doubt about it that I have a weak core. I'm built like a stereotypical Polynesian man. Tall (with long limbs), broad shoulders, and heavy. 



Ibanezsam4 said:


> try also working on bar placement. I did all the above advice for years and i've always tweaked my lower back above 300lbs. Turns out doing a high bar squat like most wasn't right for my build. moved to low bar, and now everything feels more locked in.
> 
> also, practice diaphragmatic breathing. Taking in the big breath into your gut and compressing helps give you a ton of support



I'll be doing this, as well. I think the bar was too high up for me, so I'll be lowering it.

I kind of made a mistake in the beginning by just jumping in with little to no research on lifting. I've become more educated in these months of not having been to the gym than I was before, which is a good thing. I just wish I had actually done what I usually do and been educated about everything beforehand. 

EDIT: I've been doing body weight squats here and there around my house picking things up off the ground, figuring it could only help.


----------



## Ibanezsam4

BrainArt said:


> I'll be doing this, as well. I think the bar was too high up for me, so I'll be lowering it.
> 
> I kind of made a mistake in the beginning by just jumping in with little to no research on lifting. I've become more educated in these months of not having been to the gym than I was before, which is a good thing. I just wish I had actually done what I usually do and been educated about everything beforehand.
> 
> EDIT: I've been doing body weight squats here and there around my house picking things up off the ground, figuring it could only help.



this is the best video IMO to watch on low bar for form.


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## BrainArt

^ Gotta love Omar Isuf.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

That video does a nice job showing proper posture. 
For development (size) I'd also suggest not going all the way up.
Squating between the full down position and about 2/3 up position keeps that constant tension throughout the motion, and IMO it's even easier to hold proper torso angle for low-bar when you don't rise quite all the way.


----------



## Winspear

Agreed


----------



## MikeH

TRENCHLORD said:


> That video does a nice job showing proper posture.
> For development (size) I'd also suggest not going all the way up.
> Squating between the full down position and about 2/3 up position keeps that constant tension throughout the motion, and IMO it's even easier to hold proper torso angle for low-bar when you don't rise quite all the way.



Jason Huh is a huge (pun absolutely intended) proponent of constant tension reps. A lot of people give him shit for only doing "1/4 reps", but I do that type of movement on my accessory work, and it's absolutely destructive. I wear out faster that way than on full range reps.






Something tells me he knows what the hell he's talking about.


----------



## Ibanezsam4

all kindsssss of gainsssss... 

Had a couple mental work stress combined with moving to a new apartment kept me back from focusing a lot in the gym. kind of went through the motions and didn't see a lot of progress. 

Now im locked into my lifts and hit a few PRs this week. 

First off, hit 340 on a 1rm (i know i can go higher but i need the rest of my body catch up to the my leg strength).. few more weeks and i know i can hit 380 (everything feels right on my back). 

Additionally I changed my squat is now at 315 for a 3x5.. This too will go up quickly. 

And I remember the last time i used a trap bar it was a year ago and i struggled to get 225. but last night i cleared 325 for 2 reps. i need to transition that to a traditional deadlift but i've hurt my back so many times i'm super hesitant to do much with my deadlifts beyond high volume/moderate weight


now that the bragging is over with.. does anybody else notice a 1rm lift is like the ADD of lifting? you basically psyche yourself up for one big lift and only have to worry about form one.. never once do ever question how you are going to lift this one more time or anything... *mentally* its the easiest lift ever


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## UnquestionablePresence

I'm bored, so I thought I'd give an update.

New Projected 1 RMs. I've found a way of calculating these that seems to be pretty spot on based on the last time I maxed. The previous bests are taken from about 3 weeks ago when my weights class had its max week, so they are numbers that I have for sure hit.

Squat: 355 (Previous best: 330)
Bench: 165 (Previous best: 165)
Deadlift: 405 (Previous best: 375)

Height and weight are 5'10" and 157 for those who care about that sort of thing.

Once mid-late December rolls around I'll be able to give some legitimately tested maxes. A 380 squat is the minimum goal I have set for myself, but at this rate I may get more than that. I have been able to add weight every time I have trained squat recently. Same story with my deadlift. Each time I add weight it seems like the difficulty of the lift doesn't change . All of this is happening with next to no change in bodyweight. Pretty nifty. I'm quite happy with my progress at the moment.


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## MikeH

So, in training, Eric Lilliebridge squatted 1,026, deadlifted 906, and is opening with a 535 bench at GPA Worlds. Provided that he hits at least all of those, he'll total 2,467, which is 2 lbs away from Andrey Malanichev's world record total. That's if he doesn't progress in any lift. I imagine we'll be seeing a new world record in a couple weeks.

EDIT: Here's his 1,026 squat. Mind = shattered.


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## Decon87

MikeH said:


> Jason Huh is a huge (pun absolutely intended) proponent of constant tension reps. A lot of people give him shit for only doing "1/4 reps", but I do that type of movement on my accessory work, and it's absolutely destructive. I wear out faster that way than on full range reps.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Something tells me he knows what the hell he's talking about.



Are people really giving him shit for doing "1/4th reps"? Anybody that knows anything about body building knows that keeping the tension on the muscle is way more effective than doing a full extension and letting that weight rest through your knees and heels.


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## MikeH

Well, you pretty much know how the internet goes. Neckbeards behind keyboards always know more than the IFBB Pro.


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## Defi

MikeH said:


> I'm going to go ahead and assume it's because you have a weak core. Not to put you down in any way. I have weak as f_u_ck hamstrings. Staying super tight in your core will help keep your back straight and avoid collapsing you forward, which basically makes you do a good morning, hence why your back hurts. Start box squatting. One of my buddies who I train with was terrified of going anywhere below parallel when he first started squatting, so I had him do box squats for about 4 weeks. Now he hits ATG every time. They also help you sit back into the squat, which again, will help keep your back straight.



I'm gonna "disagree" here. Although it could be any variable, this is what I would posit: If you're having trouble staying upright in squats I would say it's either weak quads or glutes, or poor calf/ankle/hip mobility. By turning the squat into a good morning you're actually using your lower back to lift the weight, so it would not be the weak point. Unless by core you mean abs, but abs pull you forward?

If your quads are weak you will raise your hips while bending over. Thus your quads have gone through their range of motion without moving the bar much, and then the back (most likely) and maybe some hamstrings will take over. This is why low bar squat is popular because it just takes out the quads a bit and adds more hamstring/back, and is always why I wouldn't do it unless I was powerlifting. I squat for quads, deadlift for posterior. In fact I front squat as often or if not more often than back squat. But I also used to want to be an olympic lifter.

2.25x bodyweight front squat hamstrings touching calves with a pause... this guy is total monster


Glute strength keeps the pelvis in the right orientation.

I would say if falling forward is your problem with back squat first try front squatting with a very upright torso. If you can go low but you're weak, quads are weak. If you can't go low with a front squat and your knees are not out far enough, could be calves or ankles. If you can't go low without your pelvis tucking underneath you, could be tight groin, weak glutes, toes not pointed out enough, knees too close together.

I torched my back a bit over a month ago squatting and letting my pelvis tuck underneath me, that's another story but god damn was that awful. Couldn't lift for a week. Learned my lesson.

Stretch and foam roll the muscles that pull against the direction you need to extend mobility. Hell, foam roll everything. I never used to be into stretching but the past few months getting into the habit and foam roller (big fan of this now), has made a huge difference.


----------



## Simic

this guy is an absolute monster when it comes to squats as well, my favourite power lifter


----------



## Defi

Hm... maybe I could do low bar squats without putting my hair in a bun... Maybe I should do them after all.

KB swings with long hair = nuisance. No elastic can contain this.


----------



## Winspear

For trouble staying upright in squats I thoroughly recommend front squats as a therapy!



Defi said:


> Hm... maybe I could do low bar squats without putting my hair in a bun... Maybe I should do them after all.



Hey, it will force you to keep your head and chest up


----------



## Defi

MikeH said:


> Jason Huh is a huge (pun absolutely intended) proponent of constant tension reps. A lot of people give him shit for only doing "1/4 reps", but I do that type of movement on my accessory work, and it's absolutely destructive. I wear out faster that way than on full range reps.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Something tells me he knows what the hell he's talking about.



This picture depicts how similar me and this guy are. I too like walking around the kitchen in my underwear.


----------



## Guamskyy

Anyone on here practice olympic-lifting? I see a lot of you guys do bodybuilding and/or powerlifting.


----------



## Dabo Fett

I apologize in advance if this has been touched upon since I'm new to this side of the forum but I have a quick question. How do you guys keep up with gaining muscle without gaining weight? I've put on about 20lbs of muscle in the last couple months. I know it's muscle because I'm watching the numbers of my lifts go way up. Example, currently can bench 210 when I could barely do 140 10 months ago. But I'm also at 233.5lbs, and as an ex hockey player who's and ex hockey player due to a knee, I'd prefer not to weigh that much. 

So to recap, what methods do you guys use to gain muscle while maintaining or losing weight? Or do you guys build the muscle, then lose the fat separately?


----------



## MikeH

My buddy and occasional lifting partner Luke Starnes competed in the SPF Record Breakers powerlifting meet in Tennessee yesterday. Luke finished with a 1,275 lb total....at 130 lbs body weight. That total officially puts him in the international elite class. He missed his last deadlift at 525, which would have put him at a 1,300 for 10x his body weight total. The kicker is that he pulled his final attempt after already tearing his hamstring on his 500 lb second attempt, which was a good lift. Extremely happy for him.


----------



## Chickenhawk

MikeH said:


> My buddy and occasional lifting partner Luke Starnes competed in the SPF Record Breakers powerlifting meet in Tennessee yesterday. Luke finished with a 1,275 lb total....at 130 lbs body weight. That total officially puts him in the international elite class. He missed his last deadlift at 525, which would have put him at a 1,300 for 10x his body weight total. The kicker is that he pulled his final attempt after already tearing his hamstring on his 500 lb second attempt, which was a good lift. Extremely happy for him.



Holy. Sh_i_t.

Makes me look like a bitch. That's insane!


----------



## Defi

guambomb832 said:


> Anyone on here practice olympic-lifting? I see a lot of you guys do bodybuilding and/or powerlifting.


I pretend to practice it. I'm a wannabe. I went for one coaching session, and it was right before a christmas break the club was taking and well... by the time the break was over I was done my several month lifting spree. Go me.

Now I live in the woods and the nearest club is an hour away. I don't have the money/dedication to drive there 3 times a week and buy a set of bumper plates to practice at home on other days.

But I love the sport, and if I get a better opportunity to in the future I may get some coaching again. If I wanted to make weights my number one passion then I would go for it. 

To me it's by far the most badass and cool reason to touch a barbell. Bodybuilding is... well, stupid in my opinion. I respect the work it takes to get there but man... why? They look positively ridiculous, absolutely SCREAM steroids (OK, ya, most elite athletes are, indeed, but it's not so god damn in your face). Powerlifting is pretty cool, but ehh. It's such a game of decreasing range of motion with the squat and bench, and the whole addition of suits and stuff just seems unnecessary to me... I don't see the point of everyone getting the same advantage and relearning lifts with them when they tested strength perfectly well without them. But maybe someone more familiar with the sport can enlighten me on that.

Olympic lifting just has an elegance and grace to it that I really admire.



Dabo Fett said:


> I apologize in advance if this has been touched upon since I'm new to this side of the forum but I have a quick question. How do you guys keep up with gaining muscle without gaining weight? I've put on about 20lbs of muscle in the last couple months. I know it's muscle because I'm watching the numbers of my lifts go way up. Example, currently can bench 210 when I could barely do 140 10 months ago. But I'm also at 233.5lbs, and as an ex hockey player who's and ex hockey player due to a knee, I'd prefer not to weigh that much.
> 
> So to recap, what methods do you guys use to gain muscle while maintaining or losing weight? Or do you guys build the muscle, then lose the fat separately?



It's hard to gain muscle fast without gaining fat, and hard to lose fat fast without losing muscle. Slow and steady wins the race.

What do you want to do? Do you want to weigh less soon or do you want to trim down slowly? If you want to weigh less quickly just cut your calories lots, be prepared to lose muscle. Don't go nuts on working out or else you will crash your metabolism. 

Once you get to a weight you like, find your maintenance point in calories and plug away. I mean, it all comes down to calories and carb timing. If at that weight you still feel a bit too high in body fat eat all your carbs around the time you work out and stick to protein fats the rest of the day.

As far as what I do: I bulked up big time in a short amount of time this year. I hadn't lifted weights in over a year, but back when I did the most I weight was 190-195, but I was reasonably lean. At the end of October this year I was 225+ but probably ~3-4% higher body fat than I was when I was 195. So the past three weeks I have been low carb, calorie deficit, and training with little rest periods and very metabolic exercises. And it is HELL. Once I get to the leanness I want I am going to go for the slow and steady approach... I haven't lost much weight since beginning this "cut," but I've definitely got leaner. Jesus christ I only have one pair of pants that fits anymore and i was hoping losing fat would solve that but I guess the good news is it's the muscle that caused it.



MikeH said:


> My buddy and occasional lifting partner Luke Starnes competed in the SPF Record Breakers powerlifting meet in Tennessee yesterday. Luke finished with a 1,275 lb total....at 130 lbs body weight. That total officially puts him in the international elite class. He missed his last deadlift at 525, which would have put him at a 1,300 for 10x his body weight total. The kicker is that he pulled his final attempt after already tearing his hamstring on his 500 lb second attempt, which was a good lift. Extremely happy for him.



Jesus, how tall is he? If I was 130 I would probably be unable to support myself


----------



## MikeH

He's very short. I think in the 5'3"-5'5" range. And I need to correct that he pulled his hamstring on his 315 lb bench, which was also a good lift. So he attempted all 3 deadlifts with a pulled hamstring and still got a 500 pull. Dedication.


----------



## Defi

It's crazy the efficiency lifters can get in the lighter weight ranges


----------



## gunshow86de

Defi said:


> It's crazy the efficiency lifters can get in the lighter weight ranges



Men's Raw World Records | Powerlifting Watch

Check out Lamar Grant's 634 lb deadlift, at 123 lbs.  He weighs less than most women I've dated. 

Still, most impressive deadlift of all time has to be Ed Coan's 901 at 220 lbs. It's higher than the 242 and 275 lb class records.


----------



## UnquestionablePresence

I broke out my potato to share a purchase with you guys.











First off, I'm happy to have an olympic bar that weighs the standard 45 pounds finally. The bar that used to sit in that rack was awful. It was incredibly bent, had a sad excuse for knurling, it was starting to crack, the sleeves didn't rotate when loaded, and it only weighed 35 pounds. Also, it has these bolts on the end that constantly need to be tightened. Just awful

The new bar fixes all of that. No cheap bolts, solid construction, the sleeves spin smoothly, it weighs what an olympic bar should weigh, as previously mentioned, and the knurling is incredible. When you grab this bar it grabs you back. I don't think I will be able to drop a chalked deadlift even if I try . Every bar I have handled before barely had a knurl, so this is a great change of pace. The bar also will be less prone to shift around during squats and bench. I have yet to handle heavy weights with this bar, but I will be deadlifting with it soon, so we will see how everything feels when this bar is put to work.

Now I just need to get some collars other than the terrible spring ones that I have that like to slide off during deadlifts, and I won't miss my school's weight room too much when I graduate.


----------



## Ibanezsam4

came back from thanksgiving 4lbs heavier.. this past week i dropped lunch everyday and hit the gym at regular intervals with added cardio. dropped the weight in 5 days. now to keep on point and make sure the next time i hit 190 it is lean muscle


----------



## TRENCHLORD

I've held study between 210-215LBS for awhile now and have decided to do a diet clean-up (diet isn't really bad at all right now calorically but plenty of room for refinement, especially from the health and whole-food/organic angle) and attempt a drop to around 200 without sacrificing any lean mass. This all AFTER the three holiday dinners coming for me (or rather me for them lol).

Anyways my point to the post is that whenever I more closely watch my calories/macros for a period I tend to lean a lot on protein powders for snack-meals, and I've recently heard more and more negative things about the over-consumption of artificial sweeteners and their negative interactions with the body.

Usually I don't worry too much about the back and forth of what is good or bad for our health because it often falls into the "story of the week" realm, and being a dumb lazy slob I don't really want to take the time to research for myself, and the studies always seem to conflict depending on who runs them.

Anyways though, I figure that since I'll be utilizing the powders more often (usually three/day) it would be nice to avoid all that sucrolose/splenda contained in most of the "pure protein" whey-isolate sups. Well I got searching and quickly found this stuff.

http://www.optimumnutrition.com/products/naturally-flavored-100-whey-gold-standard-p-202.html






Anyone taking it or other "all-natural" protein sups?
This stuff is the same price as the regular O.N. Gold and only has a few more calories so I wonder why more people haven't switched over? Unless it just taste terrible, which really doesn't even matter to me anyways .


----------



## Guamskyy

Hmmm, interesting, I'll have to give that a go.


Yeah for me, in order for me to hit my recommended amount of protein, I have to down a double serving of protein every now and then.


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## Ibanezsam4

TRENCHLORD said:


> Anyone taking it or other "all-natural" protein sups?
> This stuff is the same price as the regular O.N. Gold and only has a few more calories so I wonder why more people haven't switched over? Unless it just taste terrible, which really doesn't even matter to me anyways .



yup, made the switch a while ago. I learned the hard whey (zing!) that me and milk proteins dont do too well together so i've been doing pea protein for a long time. because its an alternative typically used by vegans and paleo dieters its very clean and usually sweetened with stevia (unless its unflavored in which case helllll noooo). 

it feels really good.. and more importantly my colon has no longer declared war on humanity


----------



## Fiction

I actually just ordered some of that natural protein, I'll report back in when it gets. I only ever mix mine straight into water aswell, and all the other gold standard mixes perfectly.


----------



## Winspear

I usually use unflavoured anyway but from the popular cheap brands in my country. I could never bring myself to pay ~2-4x as much for those big brand names, especially given I have easily 5 or so scoops every day.


----------



## Chickenhawk

Today was heavy leg day.

Today was also the day that I found out my underwear is a bit small. Split the ass of them wide open doing leg presses.


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## gunshow86de

So Ed Coan squatted 300 kg at GPA Worlds, at 51 years old!

(check that background music too)


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## Ibanezsam4

Chickenhawk said:


> Today was heavy leg day.
> 
> Today was also the day that I found out my underwear is a bit small. Split the ass of them wide open doing leg presses.



that's why you free-ball that shit mang


----------



## MikeH

Chickenhawk said:


> Today was heavy leg day.
> 
> Today was also the day that I found out my underwear is a bit small. Split the ass of them wide open doing leg presses.



I know the feeling. Split a brand new pair of boxers a few months ago doing squats. Ever since then, I've only worn boxer briefs.


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## Chickenhawk

MikeH said:


> I know the feeling. Split a brand new pair of boxers a few months ago doing squats. Ever since then, I've only worn boxer briefs.



These were boxer briefs  Most leg days I wear compression shorts under my sweats or shorts, but lately I've enjoyed not working out with a crushed sack.

But, I've discovered the small differences between Fruit of the Loom Large and XL, and Hanes Large and XL. 

That and I'm growing a butt, finally...after 28 years of life having hams that just run into my lower back.


----------



## Ibanezsam4

So as someone who was self taught with gym technique, i tend to have these "ah-ha!" moments where i discover a little something that makes my lifts easier but then looks really obvious in hindsight. 

This happened this week when i stabilized the bar over my back during squats by..... pulling the bar into my traps....

I was so concerned with keep my lats tight and elbows forward i seemed to gloss over that part where they said "... and pull the bar into your back." 

so now it all makes sense.. but i guess its cool i hit 360lbs in squats just balancing in the bar on my back.. a side career in the circus seems to be an option for me now


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## MikeH

Until you can do this, nobody cares.


----------



## Ibanezsam4

MikeH said:


> Until you can do this, nobody cares.




this was actually my reference video to figure out how to do that


----------



## CapenCyber

Chickenhawk said:


> That and I'm growing a butt, finally...after 28 years of life having hams that just run into my lower back.



It all starts proudly then before you know it you're having to buy a whole wardrobe for your legs every year including suits etc.

Let your shirts just get ever tighter though...


----------



## gunshow86de

^
I can't even wear regular cut pants anymore. They all turn in to skinny jeans. Gotta buy baggy/loose/relaxed for a normal fit.


----------



## Ord92

So does anybody else here feel that their Bench press is their weakest point? I have been a regular on and off gym goer and basically this year I have really focused and been hitting it hard since January. Recently I have been having a problem with my Flat bench press and I have been struggling to hit 80kg (I currently weigh 92KG). I have no problem with other areas, dead lifts, squats etc but for some reason my bench press is becoming a real problem. Any other forum members have this problem?


----------



## Ord92

So does anybody else here feel that their Bench press is their weakest point? I have been a regular on and off gym goer and basically this year I have really focused and been hitting it hard since January. Recently I have been having a problem with my Flat bench press and I have been struggling to hit 80kg (I currently weigh 92KG). I have no problem with other areas, dead lifts, squats etc but for some reason my bench press is becoming a real problem. Any other forum members have this problem?


----------



## MikeH

Well, technically, your bench will always be lower than your other compounds because less muscles are recruited. Squat uses about 80% of your body, deadlifts use about 90%, and the bench only uses about 30%. So, by default, if your bench numbers are matching your squat and deadlift, you need to do some leg work.  As far as it being weaker in relative comparison, I have the same issue. On this last cycle of The Cube Method, my squat went up around 45 lbs (420), deadlift went up around 35 lbs (415), and my bench didn't move (230). So, that's also an issue for me. What I'm doing to remedy it is adding a secondary chest day. My bench days rotate weekly between heavy, high rep, and explosive, so I've decided that on Saturdays, I'm going to do whichever one of those I didn't just do, and won't be doing the following week. So, say I do heavy bench on Wednesday, then the following Wednesday is supposed to be explosive bench, I'll add rep bench in on the Saturday between the two. I just started doing it, so I haven't seen any results yet. But I can't imagine more volume isn't going to help.


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## Winspear

Yeah, what's your squat and deadlift for comparison? Unless they are well over 150 then I'd say 80 is a normal bench. This may be skewed by the amount of people that don't squat or deadlift if you've been comparing your lifts to theirs haha.


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## Ord92

EtherealEntity said:


> Yeah, what's your squat and deadlift for comparison? Unless they are well over 150 then I'd say 80 is a normal bench. This may be skewed by the amount of people that don't squat or deadlift if you've been comparing your lifts to theirs haha.



my 1 max rep dead lift is around 165kg and squat is about 130kg. My deadlift and squat have made huge improvements in the past year however my bench has just struggled along. I just cant seem to get a good enough pump when doing a flat bench press with a bar.

Somehow though I get a better pump using dumbells, yet I am normally using a lower weight (using 35kg DB)


----------



## MikeH

Pump =/= strength building. It helps, but a pump can be achieved with low weight and high reps, so I never base my strength training on how much of a pump I get. Just work on heavy (80-90% of 1RM) bench press for singles and doubles. The rule is, if you want to get better at something, do it more. Want to get better at benching? Bench more. Squatting? Squat more. So on, so forth.


----------



## Winspear

I would say your lifts are proportional


----------



## gunshow86de

I'd be curious to see what your technique is as well. Are you doing "bodybuilding-style" bench press or a "proper" bench (I'm totally not biased )?

These are some of the better technique videos, IMO. You can judge your own technique accordingly.


----------



## Ibanezsam4

I missed my bench pr yesterday and all these videos make me want to bench more


----------



## UnquestionablePresence

I hit a 185 bench recently. 15 pound improvement over 9 weeks. Not the worst progress considering I didn't gain any weight. I just need to work on maintaining form. My rep maxes for bench are lower than what they should be because my form comes unglued quite easily after the 1st rep. I barely get 145 for 6 reps. Shoulders always slide out of place and everything gradually gets looser . I'm working on keeping everything locked down as I bring the bar down, but it's not easy. My shoulders always want to pop up whenever I touch the bar to my chest. 

Also, I've been getting some really decent chest stimulation from bench recently. Right off the bat with a decently heavy weight I can feel it. I attribute this to focusing more on pinching everything in the upper back together. That's the only thing I can recall changing before this started happening. It would probably be even better if I could keep the upper back tightness from deteriorating as the set progresses.

Additionally, I've been working on just hitting a safe competition depth with squats instead of going super low. It's surprisingly difficult. When I went to max out squats I kept getting shoved down deeper into the hole than I intended. My glutes and quads feel the pain just from slowing down 275 in time to change direction when I hit depth on the first rep of a set of six. It feels a lot tighter than going super low. I think that while I can drop that low, I really shouldn't. It's tough to maintain tightness that deep. I basically just plop down into the last few inches of the ROM when I go super low. Not good.

My bodyweight is still about the same. 155. Lean? Sure, but at my height that weight is hardly substantial. I can't really bring myself to stress too much about the scale right now, though. I've been having some head troubles recently and the scale is just adding to my stress and damaging my body image. I've been finding it pretty lame that I've been letting the scale and my eating habits affect my happiness when my strength seems to progress at about the same rate with or without a weight gaining focus as long as I don't completely starve myself. I'm going to try to ignore it for a while unless if my lifts stall. I feel like I look better than I did months ago, but the scale reads about the same.

I'm hoping to see some more gains soon. I think these past couple of weeks I've been slipping out of my total n00b gain phase, and being the idiot that I am and not realizing that this is totally normal I lost my cool and did some VERY weird stuff with my training. Wouldn't be surprised if all of the negativity hurt my progress.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

^ Take time to experiment with bench height, and since most benches don't allow for height adjustment from the ground, you should try placing either rubber mats or weight-plates under your feet until you find just the right height to allow for maximum stabilization. You don't want to be dancing on the toes barely touching when one is trying to concentrate on good form.
If you're a taller guy (or even average height) then you're probably wondering what in the hell I'm even talking about .

Conversely, I have ran upon benches that were too low to the ground for my taste, but that's not the norm. In that case the feet should probably be extended out (more straight-legged) so that you can get a nice tight stable feel and better balance.

Be careful to not start pushing through the legs so much that the hips are coming off the bench. I call that f---ing the sky style .
Seen it many times in many gyms.


----------



## UnquestionablePresence

TRENCHLORD said:


> ^ Take time to experiment with bench height, and since most benches don't allow for height adjustment from the ground, you should try placing either rubber mats or weight-plates under your feet until you find just the right height to allow for maximum stabilization. You don't want to be dancing on the toes barely touching when one is trying to concentrate on good form.
> If you're a taller guy (or even average height) then you're probably wondering what in the hell I'm even talking about .
> 
> Conversely, I have ran upon benches that were too low to the ground for my taste, but that's not the norm. In that case the feet should probably be extended out (more straight-legged) so that you can get a nice tight stable feel and better balance.
> 
> Be careful to not start pushing through the legs so much that the hips are coming off the bench. I call that f---ing the sky style .
> Seen it many times in many gyms.



Max effort bench technique at my school usually includes a strong hip thrust. One of the guys in my period benched 225 by turning it into a decline. I've never had that issue for some reason. The way I set up I can't extend my hips any further even though they are touching the bench. My glutes are squeezed by default when I am ready to go just due to the way my legs are positioned and my arch. I take my time setting up my bench, but I still need plenty of practice with it. Maybe the way I am doing it now isn't the best way. Dunno.

These past couple of days I've been able to do whatever I want in the weight room. It's the week before christmas break and people are either in the gym playing basketball or making up maxes they missed last week. A few of us are still lifting, and he isn't requiring us to follow the plan. Feels good being able to get the rest needed between 3 hard sets since I can choose to do 3 exercises total instead of 5. The equipment that I make use of at school is either on par or worse than what I have at home, but lifting in the morning at school with a few friends feels way better than lifting at home alone. They have a neutral grip pull up set up on two of the racks, too. That's one thing I don't have. I enjoy that grip. Lats were fried


----------



## musicaldeath

I am jumping in here late so sorry if this has already been brought up, but one of the better programs I found for getting my lifts up was the CUBE by Brandon Lilly. I ran that once, and then the Kingpin variation on CUBE and actually just finished Cube Predator which is a bench focused 6 week scheme (you do a bench day twice a week, the second bench replaces your "bodybuilding" day).


----------



## MikeH

On my second cycle of The Cube. Brandon Lilly is one of my favorite lifters, especially because of his philosophies as far as training go. I saw some really good gains in my squat and deadlift, but not so much my bench. So I'm focusing my bodybuilding day on my "bench muscles" (lats, shoulders, triceps, chest). I've actually started doing lat pulldowns every day I'm in the gym. I watched one of his videos and he quoted a fellow powerlifter who said "I've seen guys with big arms, guys with big legs, guys with huge chests who were weak as shit. I've never seen a guy with a big back who was weak." I definitely understand it, and the added back work has shown definite improvement in my bench and deadlift form. I just hope it's going to improve my bench enough to be competitive in February.


----------



## gunshow86de

Just finished testing all my lifts for my last workouts of the year (gonna be skiing all next week). I was pretty disappointed, but the numbers are understandable I guess. I put a bit more focus on conditioning, and lost about 25 lbs of bodyweight over the last 5 months. It really drove my press numbers down. I also had a bit of an issue with my left hip (was very worried I tore my labrum, but I think it ended up just being a strain, it feels almost completely healed now).

All things considered, the numbers are decent compared to the last time I tested 1RM's in May.

Squat - 450 (previous was 440)
Bench - 315 (previous was 350)
Deadlift - 480 (previous was 480)
OHP - 205 (previous was 215)

I think I'll test again around March. I learned a few things testing this week.
1) I've got to start doing heavy singles again. I hadn't taken a squat over 400lbs since the summer time. The 450 felt really "foreign" on my back.
2) Need to start deadlifting in my belt more. The 480 was pretty ugly. It felt like the belt was trying to pull me forward. I couldn't really get my hips in the proper position. If you've ever used a 13mm belt, you probably know what I'm talking about. 
3) Need to set the bar lower on my squats. I always felt like I had it on my rear delts, but the marks on my back show the bar is actually still sitting mostly on my traps/on top of my shoulders. I also probably need to switch back to my Chucks. I switched to my Olympic shoes to get depth easier. That's not a problem anymore, and my Chucks let me sit back easier.
4) Need to go back to my old bench set up. The one I've been using is more comfortable, but doesn't make me as tight or allow as much leg drive. 

I have videos of all the lifts. I'll probably upload once I stop being so depressed about it.


----------



## UnquestionablePresence

gunshow86de said:


> Just finished testing all my lifts for my last workouts of the year (gonna be skiing all next week). I was pretty disappointed, but the numbers are understandable I guess. I put a bit more focus on conditioning, and lost about 25 lbs of bodyweight over the last 5 months. It really drove my press numbers down. I also had a bit of an issue with my left hip (was very worried I tore my labrum, but I think it ended up just being a strain, it feels almost completely healed now).
> 
> All things considered, the numbers are decent compared to the last time I tested 1RM's in May.
> 
> Squat - 450 (previous was 440)
> Bench - 315 (previous was 350)
> Deadlift - 480 (previous was 480)
> OHP - 205 (previous was 215)
> 
> I think I'll test again around March. I learned a few things testing this week.
> 1) I've got to start doing heavy singles again. I hadn't taken a squat over 400lbs since the summer time. The 450 felt really "foreign" on my back.
> 2) Need to start deadlifting in my belt more. The 480 was pretty ugly. It felt like the belt was trying to pull me forward. I couldn't really get my hips in the proper position. If you've ever used a 13mm belt, you probably know what I'm talking about.
> 3) Need to set the bar lower on my squats. I always felt like I had it on my rear delts, but the marks on my back show the bar is actually still sitting mostly on my traps/on top of my shoulders. I also probably need to switch back to my Chucks. I switched to my Olympic shoes to get depth easier. That's not a problem anymore, and my Chucks let me sit back easier.
> 4) Need to go back to my old bench set up. The one I've been using is more comfortable, but doesn't make me as tight or allow as much leg drive.
> 
> I have videos of all the lifts. I'll probably upload once I stop being so depressed about it.



You lost weight, but now you have a heavier squat than your previous, bigger self. That's a win in my book. There is a guy in my weights class who cut 20 pounds for wrestling. His pre-cut squat max dwarfs his current max. He managed to keep his bench about the same, oddly enough.

---

Just realized something about my past two bench workouts. One last week was 145 for a 3x6 attempt. I got 6, 5, 4. Last bench workout was the same thing, except 6, 6, 4 I believe. Looks like my bench is finally moving. I haven't done much newbie linear progression in a while on my own. I incorporated a little linear progression tweak a few months ago by only using weight I was guaranteed to not miss reps with. Gave me gains for a little bit, but I guess it's time to go back to pushing PRs nearly every workout for a while.

When following the school program that is what we do, but my 1RM and rep max discrepancies results in me being assigned a 10RM for what is supposed to be a set of 12, using 8 RM for what is supposed to be a set of 10 etc.

There might not be much of a difference between doing 145x6 when I mean to get 145x8 and doing 145x6 as my target, but I feel like there is a pretty big mental difference. The former makes me feel like I am failing every day. I dunno. All I need to do is convince the coach to let me use 10-5 pounds less than what the chart says I should use and I should be able to get rid of that mental block.

Or maybe this is just all BS and I happened to break out of my progress lull just with stubborness. I haven't made much progress on rep work in a while. I struggled with the same weight the entire 9 weeks and magically ended up with a higher max. It's good to see the rep work moving again.


----------



## MikeH

Went to Planet Fitness with the fiancé today. As much as that place absolutely blows, she's had a membership there that she hasn't used in months, but wants to get back into a strength routine, which I'm 1000% supportive of. Upon going there, though, I'm completely baffled how the hell I used to bench press on a smith machine.  Since pressing with a barbell, I know what correct form is. There's no way in hell I was using the correct range of motion when I was using one of those. I refuse to ever go back there for benching.


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## TRENCHLORD

MikeH said:


> Went to Planet Fitness with the fiancé today. As much as that place absolutely blows, she's had a membership there that she hasn't used in months, but wants to get back into a strength routine, which I'm 1000% supportive of. Upon going there, though, I'm completely baffled how the hell I used to bench press on a smith machine.  Since pressing with a barbell, I know what correct form is. There's no way in hell I was using the correct range of motion when I was using one of those. I refuse to ever go back there for benching.



I totally agree for flats, but I actually miss the straight-vertical smith for 30-35 degree inclines.


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## musicaldeath

I had huge issues with my incline. I had done everything from the incline bench with a barbell, to just using dumbbells on an incline. Can't remember who, but someone suggested the incline in the smith machine. Finally gave it a go, kept everything nice and slow, really focusing on the form. After a month, went back to the regular incline bench. Totally different ball game then. It was awesome. Maybe just muscle memory or something, but I think i never used to keep the bar over the right spot on my chest before using the smith. Muscle memory must have taken over from it, because I never had the issue afterwards.


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## Ibanezsam4

MikeH said:


> . I've actually started doing lat pulldowns every day I'm in the gym. I watched one of his videos and he quoted a fellow powerlifter who said "I've seen guys with big arms, guys with big legs, guys with huge chests who were weak as shit. I've never seen a guy with a big back who was weak."



Out of curiosity, why stick to lat pulldowns when you are capable of doing pullups? 

The pullup engages the whole lat, engages more stabilizers, and with variations such as pause-reps, weighted, weighted negatives, you can put more volume into your back and improve the strength from every muscle group between your elbows and your butt. 

I was always under the impression the bigger guys did pulldowns because they had gotten to the point where their physique interfered with the natural mechanisms of the pullup and as such need to "lean back" more into the pulldown to get full lat engagement.


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## JeffFromMtl

Damn guys, I'm antsy as fvck. It seems like every time I get back in the groove, something sidelines me again. First I got hit by a car and fvcked up my hip for a couple weeks, then I had an accident on my bike and sublaxated my shoulder that kept me out of the gym for a month, then I got sick, then I started getting weird pains in my abdomen that I couldn't figure out, which subsequently ended up being a hernia, and now I've been sick for the last 2 weeks. I've never had this many issues with my health before, and it's driving me insane.

The good news is that I'm finally starting to feel better and I recently decided to get hernia repair surgery, because it's been recurring at least once a month and taking me out for a week at a time, completely fvcking my flow. So I just have to book my appointment and hopefully get it done ASAP. Just curious, has anyone else here had hernia issues before? If so, what did you do about it?


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## MikeH

Ibanezsam4 said:


> Out of curiosity, why stick to lat pulldowns when you are capable of doing pullups?
> 
> The pullup engages the whole lat, engages more stabilizers, and with variations such as pause-reps, weighted, weighted negatives, you can put more volume into your back and improve the strength from every muscle group between your elbows and your butt.
> 
> I was always under the impression the bigger guys did pulldowns because they had gotten to the point where their physique interfered with the natural mechanisms of the pullup and as such need to "lean back" more into the pulldown to get full lat engagement.



I do pull-ups twice a week. Sets of 3xAMRAP, alternating wide and close grip. The lat pulldown I alternate with various grips (wide/close supinated, and wide, close neutral) and weights/rep ranges, to change it up even more than pull-ups. Plus, I do lean back, as it replicates the path of the bar while benching.


----------



## Chickenhawk

Alright, gents, what the fuck is the song?

I need to know....and if it's Meshuggah I'm going to feel like a horrible fan.


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## gunshow86de

It's definitely not Meshuggah. Shazam didn't recognize it, and the comments on YouTube are disabled. Your guess is as good as mine.


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## Chickenhawk

gunshow86de said:


> It's definitely not Meshuggah. Shazam didn't recognize it, and the comments on YouTube are disabled. Your guess is as good as mine.



I went to Shazam first. Tried like 3 times.

I'll probably just send them a message. Same song is used on a couple of their other videos that I've noticed.

It's heavy. I must lift to it.


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## scottro202

Just read a fascinating article. Made my New Year's resolution, stop skipping leg day so much. Cause Da Vinci  Leg workout guide: four reasons not to skip leg day - GQ.COM (UK)


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## MikeH

From a previous thread, quoting myself:



> I find people who skip leg day inferior to me. Both physically and mentally.



How people skip leg day is beyond me. I feel weak as shit doing upper body work. My legs are far and away the strongest part of my body, not to mention doing squats and deadlifts release more testosterone than any other exercise.


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## UnquestionablePresence

I feel like I want a 405 squat more than anything else right now. I hit 300 for 3x6 today and my squat in the bottom position is a lot tighter than it used to be. It's only a matter of time. I just wish that time would pass a bit quicker and I didn't have to put up with other bullshit while waiting for each training session to come.


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## MikeH

Hit my bodyweight (165) for 3 singles on strict press yesterday.


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## Ibanezsam4

Found this Youtuber Cody Leferver after Candito posted something about him on Facebook. Really chill guy with a lot of good advice (and he loves burritos almost as much as I do)

His outlook is refreshing. most strength athletes who have youtube channels don't seem to take their head out of the competition and lose that personal element which makes channels entertaining... plus he's funny as hell


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## TRENCHLORD

^^^ I hate the way he hitches at the hips each time he fires off the bottom. Not good.


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## Ibanezsam4

TRENCHLORD said:


> ^^^ I hate the way he hitches at the hips each time he fires off the bottom. Not good.



his is pretty bad, but i've still seen worse at "elite" level.


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## TRENCHLORD

Ibanezsam4 said:


> his is pretty bad, but i've still seen worse at "elite" level.



Yeah I've seen much worse at every level and every gym , even so it seems to go directly against some of the things he's saying in his commentary.
He talks about the amount of weight not mattering unless you're a competitive powerlifter, and then he proceeds to use a weight that he actually doesn't handle without rocking forward with the torso on each rep .
What good is full depth if one can't blast straight up out of it?
Then to top it off he's kind of making fun of the other guy not being able to properly handle his chosen weight.
He is a strong guy though, I certainly wouldn't try to take that away from him.


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## UnquestionablePresence

Always a good thing to find more lifting channels with content that is just lifting and isn't 2 minutes of lifting weaved in between 9 minutes of walking around in random places/sitting in the car/eating talking about whatever in front of the camera. Guys like Candito and the guy linked (Cody Lefever) have it right.


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## Ibanezsam4

TRENCHLORD said:


> Yeah I've seen much worse at every level and every gym , even so it seems to go directly against some of the things he's saying in his commentary.
> He talks about the amount of weight not mattering unless you're a competitive powerlifter, and then he proceeds to use a weight that he actually doesn't handle without rocking forward with the torso on each rep .
> What good is full depth if one can't blast straight up out of it?
> Then to top it off he's kind of making fun of the other guy not being able to properly handle his chosen weight.
> He is a strong guy though, I certainly wouldn't try to take that away from him.



If anything he made me more aware of my hip movement from watching.. 

tried out pause squats for the first time yesterday, it was my first experiment with squat variations other than the front squat and i dug it. im hoping it gives me greater strength at depth so i can sink even further to the floor with my main lifts


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## TRENCHLORD

Ibanezsam4 said:


> If anything he made me more aware of my hip movement from watching..
> 
> tried out pause squats for the first time yesterday, it was my first experiment with squat variations other than the front squat and i dug it. im hoping it gives me greater strength at depth so i can sink even further to the floor with my main lifts



I'm sure it will help. 

Pause squats always result in more quad burn and more core strengthening IMO. For anyone who doesn't like wearing a belt (myself included) I really think it's much safer to become accustomed to the pause style as one's main variation, since they assure a good clean identical start to every push.
Not going quite all the way up (like 2/3 - 3/4 up) also really helps me stay in the same groove/line. Of course their's always a time and place for different variations though.


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## Ibanezsam4

TRENCHLORD said:


> I'm sure it will help.
> 
> Pause squats always result in more quad burn and more core strengthening IMO. For anyone who doesn't like wearing a belt (myself included) I really think it's much safer to become accustomed to the pause style as one's main variation, since they assure a good clean identical start to every push.
> Not going quite all the way up (like 2/3 - 3/4 up) also really helps me stay in the same groove/line. Of course their's always a time and place for different variations though.



im the same way about belts, so reading this makes me feel better about the workout selection


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## MikeH

Pauses are great. I do them most squat days. Definitely helps with speed out of the hole, on top of all of the aforementioned benefits.


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## gunshow86de

"I must go, my planet needs me."


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## MikeH

So....Andrey Malanichev just squatted 926 for a triple in training...


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## Guamskyy

Here's a good one, happened late November last year: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEjCB6PfJaY

Ilya Ilyin (105 kg class) snatches 190 kg and clean & jerks 242 kg for the new world record- He is ridiculous! Never lost a competition, plus he moved from the 84 kg class back in the 2012 Olympics (took gold in his weight class) all the way to 105 kg. 

The guy attempts to max out once every week during training- it's insane. Despite the doping that goes on in these competitions, it is still a lot of grinding and hard work to get that far.


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## UnquestionablePresence

My school's football/weight room coach is taking all who want to go to a bench and squat competition in late February. Not really a powerlifting meet as only high school students who weight train at schools are allowed, just to clarify. Still should be fun, though. If there was deadlifting involved I would be even more excited because then I could make up for my shitty bench. I would even settle for power cleans being included, lol.

Also, my coach is putting a bunch of new stuff out on the record wall like bench, squat, clean total clubs, and x% of bodyweight for 10 reps on bench/squat club. I made it into the 700 total club with exactly a 700 pound total XD, and the 150%x10 club by squatting 265x10 the day after he decided he was going to make that club a thing (I actually only needed 235x10 to qualify). He might need to make a 200%x10 club before I graduate. We will see.


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## UnattendedGolfcart

Hey guys, I have a question about powerlifting. Since it seems like a really straightforward workout process, is it worth doing if you don't go in planning on doing it for competition purposes? Say I wanted to get bigger and stronger, is doing a powerlifting workout plan any better or worse than having a different-styled plan with a higher number of exercises, etc.?


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## Captain Shoggoth

MikeH said:


> Hit my bodyweight (165) for 3 singles on strict press yesterday.



NICE! Excellent stuff man!

Haven't posted here for a while but just training towards a PL meet I want to compete in this July. Training hard these next few months, last semester DL 1RM went from 140kg to 160kg and squat from 100kg to 120kg, want to increase by the same amount again this semester. Bench is a little stickier but I don't have to increase that that much.



UnattendedGolfcart said:


> Hey guys, I have a question about powerlifting. Since it seems like a really straightforward workout process, is it worth doing if you don't go in planning on doing it for competition purposes? Say I wanted to get bigger and stronger, is doing a powerlifting workout plan any better or worse than having a different-styled plan with a higher number of exercises, etc.?



Absolutely. It's super effective for building size and strength. Depending on how experienced you are I'd recommend Starting Strength or the 5/3/1 Boring But Big template.


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## MikeH

Well, since then, I actually hit a double with wrist wraps, so I'm happy about it. Going for a 175-185 strict press soon.


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## UnattendedGolfcart

I've decided I'm going to do the Buff Dudes 12 Week workout program again. I did it in the summer and I want to try it again. I'm not at all big, I'm a lean skinny 20 year old, but being at school I'll have the gym at school and infinite food at my disposal (which I did not have living at home).

Powerlifting seems good but I don't know if it's for me. I'm not trying to go into any competitions, I just want to be more healthy and muscular.


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## MikeH

I always recommend newer guys to try to mix their training. If you aren't looking to be competitive in bodybuilding or powerlifting, do a hybrid of both to get the strength and size gains. Do heavy compound lifts (squat, bench, deadlift, overhead press, and optionally clean and jerk), with all of your accessory work based around hypertrophy (moderate weight with high reps and sets).


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## UCBmetal

UnattendedGolfcart said:


> Hey guys, I have a question about powerlifting. Since it seems like a really straightforward workout process, is it worth doing if you don't go in planning on doing it for competition purposes? Say I wanted to get bigger and stronger, is doing a powerlifting workout plan any better or worse than having a different-styled plan with a higher number of exercises, etc.?



I've had amazing results from a super simple powerlifting regimen. What I like about it is that, as long as you eat enough to provide the nutrients to rebuild, you can get out of the gym relatively quickly if need be, only have to lift every other day, and have time to work on specific weak spots (chest width and biceps generally in my case) should you choose.


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## UnderTheSign

I think after half a year away from the gym I'm just going to start over again. Change up the diet, start with a good old 3x week 5x5 and do that till summer at least. Hopefully the 'fresh start' idea works out.


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## Ibanezsam4

I'm growing more envious of crossfit gyms by the day. think about it, they don't waste the space with excess cardio equipment, there are squat racks everywhere, no waiting in line for dips or pull-ups... to boot all the Olympic style coaches all have jobs at crossfit gyms because they can make bank (a guy who competed in the '76 and '80 Olympics teaches 30 minutes away from me). If there is one that allows for open format without the classes i would join one in a heartbeat


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## UnquestionablePresence

A couple things I have learned/some rambling:

- I can get away with as little as 2 sets of 6 2 times a week for squats and still more or less follow a linear progression, provided the sets are intense enough. 

-Anything fancier than one hard set of 5-6-ish once a week for deadlifts seems to either not help, or even hurt my progress. Ever since I simplified I hopped back on the linear progression train and rode it into the 400s.

-Really low reps don't seem to do me any favors, at least at this point in time. I worked up to triples that should have placed me in the ballpark of a 405 max with deadlifts a few months ago, but my max really only budged 5-10 pounds up to 380-ish. Went back to a set of six per week, and I'm back up to that territory, my reps are of higher quality, and I feel like I could actually pull 405 if I tried it again.

-I have yet to find the ticket to better bench progress. I appear to have stalled again, but the same thing has happened before and when it came time to max it turned out that my max had actually gone up by 15 pounds. Once I graduate and I have more control over the programming I will start playing with volume and frequency to see what works best.

-I've been able to milk linear progression for a while (I first started lifting last January) without any of the somewhat extreme weight gain that is often recommended for making it last this long, and I know of others who are around my weight and have not only done the same, but have continued to do the same. The basics really are effective, and if you resist the temptation to hop on all of the fancy sciencey "intermediate" or "advanced" shit as soon as possible you may be surprised how far you can go with just adding a little bit to the bar when you complete all of your sets and reps for the day.

TL;DR You are a "beginner" for longer than you realize

-Expanding on the last point, it's odd how certain sectors of the internet are adamant that a beginner who does not consistently gain weight is doomed to stall or even regress, but IRL I see exceptions to this all the time. Hell, I saw someone lose 20 pounds quickly and still maintain their bench.


----------



## Ibanezsam4

UnquestionablePresence said:


> A couple things I have learned/some rambling:
> 
> -Really low reps don't seem to do me any favors, at least at this point in time. I worked up to triples that should have placed me in the ballpark of a 405 max with deadlifts a few months ago, but my max really only budged 5-10 pounds up to 380-ish. Went back to a set of six per week, and I'm back up to that territory, my reps are of higher quality, and I feel like I could actually pull 405 if I tried it again.
> 
> -I've been able to milk linear progression for a while (I first started lifting last January) without any of the somewhat extreme weight gain that is often recommended for making it last this long, and I know of others who are around my weight and have not only done the same, but have continued to do the same. The basics really are effective, and if you resist the temptation to hop on all of the fancy sciencey "intermediate" or "advanced" shit as soon as possible you may be surprised how far you can go with just adding a little bit to the bar when you complete all of your sets and reps for the day.



2 excellent points that need to be brought up more often. You're tapping into what your body tells you. a lot of people go off of advice read on forums or in specialized training programs... while they are helpful, unless you have a solid mind body connection you're not going to do yourself any favors in the long run and you won't be able to hit the real plateaus that happen _years _into your lifting life. 

Strength is simple persistence. kudos to you sir


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## MikeH

It falls back to the old saying:
"If you want to get better at benching, bench more. If you want to get better at squatting, squat more. If you want to get better at deadlifting, deadlift more."

Too many people get caught up in the hype of all this crazy equipment and accessory work thinking that it's going to give them crazy numbers. Yet, they fail to realize the term _accessory_. They're there to supplement your big lifts. I do 5-6 accessory exercises per day, but not before I hit 6-9 sets of my compound lift of the day.


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## UnquestionablePresence

Ibanezsam4 said:


> 2 excellent points that need to be brought up more often. You're tapping into what your body tells you. a lot of people go off of advice read on forums or in specialized training programs... while they are helpful, unless you have a solid mind body connection you're not going to do yourself any favors in the long run and you won't be able to hit the real plateaus that happen _years _into your lifting life.
> 
> Strength is simple persistence. kudos to you sir




I think it's important to realize that people are different, and that applies to building strength too. I'm not advocating jumping off of a program and going to something radically different if you aren't happy with the progress, but little details are important to notice, like how triples didn't help my strength very much (at least at this point in time).

For example, that guy who maintained his bench after a major cut lost about 90 pounds from his squat. From what I've heard his bench should've dropped more than his squat if any strength is lost. A lot of people say that bench is a very bodyweight influenced lift. While he may have been able to maintain his bench at a lighter weight, I'm not quite sure if my body works the same way. It might turn out that gaining weight is the trick to getting my bench to pick up the pace (Won't be too happy if this is the case, I know people personally that are 20 pounds lighter than I am that can bench more, and they aren't that much shorter than I am ). I did gain about 20 pounds over the course of my first 7-8 months of training and my bench still had troubles then, so maybe it has something to do with my programming. I've never tried benching 3x a week consistently, so maybe that will work. At school the program was tweaked a little bit by the coach and I am now able to do weighted dips, so maybe after a couple of months of building that up my bench will get the slight nudge it needs. 

Or maybe I need some extra bench volume. The high rep ranges (8-12) we work in often may not be doing much for my bench, although my progress was pretty similar when I was lifting by myself and doing sets of 5. I've never tried using anything below 5 reps consistently. Or maybe about 15 pounds every 9 weeks is all I can muster for now and I just need to be patient. That's still about 80-90 pounds per year, so a 300+ pound bench still isn't very far off at that rate of progress (even though the gains will likely slow down as time passes). I have no complaints about that. I could lift for 4 more years and I'd only be 22, still very young. I have plenty of time to progress.

It could be ANY of those things, and I just have to try to figure out which one it is.


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## Ibanezsam4

deadlift PR yesterday. pulled 315 for two singles. pulled 295 for a triple before that, i had never done that before either. 

i never knew my deadlift numbers because i always put that after my squat, so i never have done a deadlift with decent weight before this. so far no sign of my previous back problems. fingers crossed


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## UnquestionablePresence

Squatted 280 for 3 sets of 10 yesterday. First set was surprisingly easy, second set was about the same, third set was where I finally had to take some significant breathers, but still nowhere near as hard as I thought it was going to be. The goal of 405 by February 28th is looking more and more realistic. 

Also deadlifted 'bout tree fiddy for a set of 6 yesterday. Wasn't too bad, although I did take my time between some of the later reps. I actually took video of it to look at my form a little and it turns out the set took about a whole minute to complete . I never really noticed the length of my sets before, but I feel like that is way longer than 6 reps should take. 

Oh well, neutral back and similar bar speed throughout. I could've cut down on the rest at the cost of slower reps towards the end if I wanted to. Definitely not max effort, and this went way better than I thought it was going to after deciding that I should go back to 10 pound jumps since I am only deadlifting once a week now and the sets were feeling a bit easy. This still puts my deadlift about 45-50 pounds ahead of my squat, which is about where my deadlift should be based on my experience. With the 5 pound jumps my squat was starting to catch up, so I made the switch.


----------



## Guamskyy

Tuesday's gym day for me was abysmal:

What I had programmed that day was-

Back squats @ 75% 5 sets of 3
Snatch- heavy single
Clean and Jerk- heavy single
Weighted lunge- 3 sets of 5/leg

But those back squats really tired me out. I really SHOULD be squatting more than I do right now (315 max) and I was struggling on my last rep of each set, one point in time I thought I would have to dump the bar. And then when I finished the back squats I wasn't able to hit 80% of my max snatch. This program is odd because I've never done squats as the first exercise in a program- but it's a different stimuli that will ultimately teach me how to keep my cool and technique when fatigued. After my 2nd missed attempt at a 87% of my max snatch, I concluded today wasn't my day and put everything a way and left  Just one of those days right?


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## UnquestionablePresence

Shifting my focus a little bit. While a 405 squat is a great goal, I think I really need to focus on my bench sometime, and that time is soon if not now. It kills me that getting up to a more typical bench for someone at my level of squat and deadlift strength would help my total out quite a bit, so I'm going to be experimenting a bit for the next couple of months.

I'm giving dumbbell benching and close-grip benching a shot. Dumbbell benching for a bit of added chest work + working on bar control. My bench gets pretty shaky and I have trouble maintaining a good bar path once the slightest bit of fatigue sets in. When I pick up dumbbells and try to bench it feels unbelievably awkward, they want to go EVERYWHERE. I feel like building some strength with the little guys will help with keeping the bar where I want it to be.

As for CGBP, it lets me get some heavy tricep work in while being able to practice general barbell bench technique. While I do definitely feel a standard bench press in my chest, the level of fatigue my triceps experience is on a higher level, so maybe a bit of extra triceps work could help.

I will see if getting stronger with these two along with the weighted dips I have already been doing helps my bench move along a bit quicker. I already tried more basic bench volume + frequency before and it didn't seem to do much. OHP stalled a ton and never really did much for my bench back when I first started lifting and incorporated that lift. 

This is the first time I have really considered doing anything besides more volume/frequency for a basic lift to get it to improve. Up until recently the only things I would consider doing extra were pull ups and maybe dips. For my squats and deadlifts the only additional work I may do is some wheel rollouts and I only recently started doing those. I'm not married to one particular philosophy anymore. If a bunch of "bodybuilding" work will get me stronger, I'll do it. The basics are cool, and they should definitely under most circumstances be included, but I don't believe there is anything wrong with doing more work. I've never really felt "overtrained" more so under-recovered AKA I didn't eat/sleep much the night before or I was super-pissed and stressed about something. As long as I get what I need I can tackle some sets of a few more exercises.

Of course, at school we have always done a few more exercises than just bench, squat, and clean (No deadlifts in the school program), but I have no control over those and aside from wheel rollouts and dips I don't see much use, for me at least, in the other things we do and I wish I could scrap them . I think it's a small price to pay, though. My performance in that weight room is typically better than my performance at home by myself.

I really want to get my bench up to par before considering something other than linear progression for my basic lifts. I may end up moving on to more complex forms of progression on my squat and deadlift by the end of the year, but keeping my bench on linear. Who knows. I guess I'll find out.


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## MikeH

My bench is my weakest lift as well, relatively speaking. More volume is what has helped me. Dumbbell pressing and CGBP are in there as well, but they always have been. Just bench more and you'll get better at it. Experiment with grip width as well. Too many guys are sucked into the old bullshit tale that you have to touch the rings in the knurling. If you're a smaller framed guy (like me), that just puts unnecessary strain on your shoulders, and doesn't let you press from your strongest point.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

In addition to changing your grip widths from time to time, or even set to set, you might also try changing up rep cadence and rep range.

The main thing to vary on rep cadence is the length of pauses at the top and/or bottom.

IMO it's better to always drive up the weight as hard as possible on every rep for the concentric phase.
You won't get as many reps total in the set because doing so will fatigue the muscles more than just "coasting up", which is what I see people doing about 99% of the time at the gyms.
Even when I'm on a 10-15 rep sort of weight I still pretend it's a shot-put on every rep, you just obviously have to let off the pedal quicker with lighter weight since you don't want to blast into a painful lockout. Explode from the bottom without using shoulder dip/hitching in an elastic sort of way. Do it with the shoulders in an absolutely frozen position and the chest in an expanded stretched posture.

Slowing down the negatives a little is good sometimes, but if I'm wanting to increase "time under tension/load" I'd rather get my extra seconds in while in the stretched position at the bottom and/or in the contracted position at the top just BEFORE lockout.

As for variation of rep range (he's a wasted rep-ranger, he lives a life of danger);
Try shrinking down the motion and concentrating on the middle-zone from time to time, especially when you're using a wider grip. 
Stop about 2" above the chest at the bottom, hold for a two-count, explode up and squeeze-hold for another couple seconds just before lockout, then just do the negative with general control without wasting time on it.

There's also "lockouts", where you work the top part of the range only, which allows for more weight than one could normally handle on full range.
These were never much my thing because I figure my wrists, elbows and shoulders are already taking enough of a beating in the long run.

Also don't under estimate drop-sets for benching, provided you're in a rack, on a machine, using dumbells, or if you just have excellent spotters.


----------



## WoodisWheretheMusicis

Anyone think heavy weightlifting is bad for guitar playing, slightly damaging to wrists and fingers? I work out, but with low-medium weight and a tonne of reps. 

BTW sorry for actually mentioning guitars here haha


----------



## TRENCHLORD

WoodisWheretheMusicis said:


> Anyone think heavy weightlifting is bad for guitar playing, slightly damaging to wrists and fingers? I work out, but with low-medium weight and a tonne of reps.
> 
> BTW sorry for actually mentioning guitars here haha



Probably not any more wearing than a typical labor type job (roofing, construction, machine shop/factory ect..)

I'd gauge it off level of discomfort and level of importance that guitar playing is in one's life VS the desire to be a muscle man or powerlifting champ maybe.
Heavy lifting and high-intensity moderate-weight training (physique work) are both completely unneeded for just staying in good shape and health.


----------



## MikeH

I'm a powerlifter and don't have any issues in my playing. I mean, if I go hit arms really hard, and I'm doing like 5 sets of curls with 35s, I'll feel it for the next day or two in my wrists and forearms, which slows down my trem picking a bit. But other than that, there's no long term damage that I've noticed.


----------



## gunshow86de

WoodisWheretheMusicis said:


> Anyone think heavy weightlifting is bad for guitar playing, slightly damaging to wrists and fingers? I work out, but with low-medium weight and a tonne of reps.
> 
> BTW sorry for actually mentioning guitars here haha



I wouldn't worry about it.


----------



## UnderTheSign

Dude blew his heart in his early 30's but hey, it's the thought that matters.


----------



## MikeH

Jon Pall is THEE man. That guy was ridiculous.


----------



## UnderTheSign

Makes me wish I was born in Iceland. Love the people, love the country.


----------



## UnquestionablePresence

Well, the last post I made may have excavated some good bench tips, but I just realized today my bench is actually still progressing. Just slowly. Didn't realize it, but my coach has been bumping me up 5 pounds every time we switched rep ranges. I'm actually doing rep work for a 195 max instead of my 185-190 max. Combine that with some recent technique adjustments I am still adjusting to (brought my grip in), and it's no wonder that I have been struggling with hitting the required reps .

My dipping and pull up strength have begun to improve for the first time in a while, so I am actually going to cancel my dumbbell bench and CGBP plans and give it a few months to see how those two progress and how my bench progresses with them. Hopefully if I get to the point of dipping a 45 pound plate for 6-8 reps my bench will have made a noticeable improvement. IF I KEPT A TRAINING LOG I WOULD'VE NOTICED THESE THINGS EARLIER .

Also, I realized I may be falling victim to my ego. I've done this before, and the result was some annoying back pain at least twice a week until I stopped being a moron . I'm toning back the squat and deadlift goals to something that seems more realistic considering my current progress. My form on both of those lifts is starting to slip as I try to rush towards my end of February goals. I'm not a competitive lifter and probably never will be one, so I really shouldn't be in any hurry. I don't know of anybody who gives too much of a shit about how much I lift. No point in getting hurt over it.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

^^^ Just a tip here to spare you some of that next morning tightness in the lower back after squat or deadlift day;

AFTER squats or DL do some intense ab work, especially moves that target the lower-abs.
Contracting the antagonistic muscles can be helpful in reducing tightness or cramping in the worked muscle group. Like if you're having hamstring cramps, do leg extensions.


----------



## UnquestionablePresence

TRENCHLORD said:


> ^^^ Just a tip here to spare you some of that next morning tightness in the lower back after squat or deadlift day;
> 
> AFTER squats or DL do some intense ab work, especially moves that target the lower-abs.
> Contracting the antagonistic muscles can be helpful in reducing tightness or cramping in the worked muscle group. Like if you're having hamstring cramps, do leg extensions.



Yeah. Ab work always provides immediate relief for me if I did something wrong, and/or prevents soreness the next day. At school I have the rollout wheel to use, but at home I haven't really been doing ab work. One time I did try planks with my hands locked together and my elbows placed out in front of me. Way harder than the plank you typically see with hands placed shoudler-width apart and elbows directly under the shoulders. I like ab work for the soreness/tightness relief if nothing else. It's one of the few staples I have accumulated so far aside from bench, squat, and deadlift. Pull ups, dips, and ab work, usually wheel rollouts.


----------



## USMarine75

The Mountain from 'Game of Thrones' Breaks 1,000-Year-Old Weightlifting Record | Bleacher Report

tl;dr "Bjornsson broke a world record... He took five steps while carrying a log over 30 feet long that weighed 1,433 pounds."


----------



## MikeH

Thor is the man. This past WSM, Brian Shaw set a world record for keg toss, then Thor came up right after him and destroyed his time. It was amazing.


----------



## gunshow86de

MikeH said:


> Thor is the man. This past WSM, Brian Shaw set a world record for keg toss, then Thor came up right after him and destroyed his time. It was amazing.



The best part was Shaw bragging about how that time wouldn't be beat. Then, like a minute later............


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

Hit 150kg deadlift for 2 without belt this week. Feels good


----------



## MikeH

Deadlifted 425 lbs for a single myself yesterday.


----------



## UnquestionablePresence

Two weeks and some change before bench + squat comp.


I got 1 set of 330x6 on Tuesday. I might not get the holy grail 405 squat, but I'll be surprised if I don't at least get close to it. Bench is creeping up; an extra rep here and there. Things aren't looking too bad.

I squat beltless and high bar for those of you that care about that sort of stuff.


----------



## MikeH

Olympic squats are the devil. That being said, I hate low-bar as well.  I'm kind of right between low and high bar. Hybrid, maybe? But my stance is also wide as shit.


----------



## Dyingsea

I know doing a lot of weight or hitting a max can be a rush but I've been getting away from heavy weights more and more. I rarely do any heavy lifting anymore. Most everything now days is low-mid weight and/or body weight. Started doing a lot more agility/crossfit/yoga type stuff as well. I feel much better overall, more lean, more flexible, a ton of power and agility now and don't feel like my joints get pounded every day. Back when I was doing heavy weights I always felt "old" and slow.

For example... here's my workout for today:

2 pullups
4 push ups
6 body weight jumping squats 
= 1 set
x25 sets in total (sets should be done as a continuous flow and only rest as needed)

1 burpee 
1 pull up 
= 1 set 
x25 sets in total (burpee to pull up should be a continuous flowing movement, you just jump to the pull up out of the burpee)

10 wall climbs

My own ab routine with about 5 different variations in it.


----------



## MikeH

Everyone finds their own niche. I, for one, can't stand metabolic routines or cardio. Never did them until enlisting in the military, and the only reason I do them now is because it's mandatory for me to stay within the fitness requirements.  On the contrary, I can blow push-ups, sit-ups, and pull-ups out of the water because of strength training.


----------



## UnquestionablePresence

Olympic squats are my go to. I haven't done low bar in forever, and wider stances are hard for me to maintain position in. I think they are a good compliment to the conventional deadlift. Oly squat to focus on leg strength, and the conv. deadlift to focus on posterior chain strength. Not saying the oly squat doesn't involve your posterior chain and that the conv. deadlift doesn't strengthen your quads, but you know, they take more of a beating in one movement than they do the other. Sorta balances out.


----------



## Ibanezsam4

i thought i had upper body strength... then i tried rock climbing. my forearms were tight for two days and i couldn't grips very well. i want to go again but its freaking expensive to join those gyms


----------



## UnderTheSign

Got a 3lbs jar or Celltech with my whey and vitamins today, no clue why the hell they threw that in there  doubting between using it for the hell of it or selling it


----------



## MikeH

Is it Celltech by Muscletech, or is it.....


...dat dere Celltech?


----------



## UnderTheSign

Haha I've been throwing around that meme all day man. It actually says "hard gainers creatine" or whatever now so I guess that's what they're marketing towards now. 18 year old me would've emptied the tub in no time...


----------



## Ibanezsam4

pulled 325lbs on deadlift for 1 rep. tried to hit 335, got the bar to bend weight to move a fraction of the inch off the floor, but i couldn't make the rest of it happen. dropped to 315 for another single then 225 for burnout. 

recently narrowed my squat stance so my weight have to slowly catch back up, but everything is steadily going up in 5-10lbs increments


----------



## UnquestionablePresence

If you guys google "Mythical Strength Blog" you'll come across a dude with some pretty cool ideas about strength training. He has two older articles on what he would do instead of competition lifts if he wasn't a competitive lifter, and a bunch of other interesting pieces. I love reading everything this guy writes even though I don't always agree. Nice to read something that goes deeper than most writers and doesn't just rehash the same information.


----------



## MikeH

Ibanezsam4 said:


> pulled 325lbs on deadlift for 1 rep. tried to hit 335, got the bar to bend weight to move a fraction of the inch off the floor, but i couldn't make the rest of it happen. dropped to 315 for another single then 225 for burnout.
> 
> recently narrowed my squat stance so my weight have to slowly catch back up, but everything is steadily going up in 5-10lbs increments



Do block pulls and deficits. The deficits will help your speed off the floor, and the block pulls will help your lockout strength. When you do deficits, take off 10-20 lbs from what your working weight is that day, and add 10-20 for blocks. If your gym doesn't have blocks, stack 2 plates under each end of the bar, and stand on one plate for deficits. Both alterations have helped me greatly.


----------



## Ibanezsam4

MikeH said:


> Do block pulls and deficits. The deficits will help your speed off the floor, and the block pulls will help your lockout strength. When you do deficits, take off 10-20 lbs from what your working weight is that day, and add 10-20 for blocks. If your gym doesn't have blocks, stack 2 plates under each end of the bar, and stand on one plate for deficits. Both alterations have helped me greatly.



already do the deficits on my secondary deadlift day to address the problem. my 1rm goes up in weight in relation to my volume days getting heavier. so far its been predictable: add ten pounds to my volume deadlift, the next week the deadlift 1rm is about ten pounds up. so the extra ten will come, but its maybe two weeks out... if only my squats were this consistent


----------



## gunshow86de

UnderTheSign said:


> Got a 3lbs jar or Celltech with my whey and vitamins today, no clue why the hell they threw that in there  doubting between using it for the hell of it or selling it



If you've already got it, go ahead and use it. I took it all the time in high school, and it does work. It's just really not all that much more effective than taking regular creatine monohydrate. 

Basically, it's creatine with some carbs.







That said;


----------



## UnquestionablePresence

Speaking of block pulls, yesterday my dad and I took a 4'x6'x3/4" horse stall mat and cut it up into 15 14"x16" mats. Boom. Sturdy, adjustable platforms for block pulls and deficits. We spent no more than $40, too. Although if you don't have the right tools for the job I suppose you will end up spending way more.


----------



## Ibanezsam4

Starting Matt Kroc's 16 week bench program today. should be fun


----------



## gunshow86de

Got my tax return in this morning and decided to treat myself to some powerlifting goodies. Got some of the Reebok powerlifting shoes (no more ripping the toenail off my little toe in narrow-ass Chuck Taylor's). Ordered a Slingshot, Hip Circle and some Gangster Wraps from Mark Bell/Howmuchyabench.net. And got some new knee sleeves and chalk from EliteFTS (won't have to squat in the middle-age rec-league baskeball knee sleeves anymore ).

If only you could order these without the Crossfit logo.  Oh well, I guess these never would have even been made without that Crossfit money. So what are you gonna do?


----------



## anthonyferguson

Recently got a 140 kgx3 on squat. 180 kg deadlift, but far too embarrassed by my bench. I only weigh 67 though so hopefully if I just eat more it'll get in line with the other lifts...


----------



## UnquestionablePresence

gunshow86de said:


> Got my tax return in this morning and decided to treat myself to some powerlifting goodies. Got some of the Reebok powerlifting shoes (no more ripping the toenail off my little toe in narrow-ass Chuck Taylor's). Ordered a Slingshot, Hip Circle and some Gangster Wraps from Mark Bell/Howmuchyabench.net. And got some new knee sleeves and chalk from EliteFTS (won't have to squat in the middle-age rec-league baskeball knee sleeves anymore ).
> 
> If only you could order these without the Crossfit logo.  Oh well, I guess these never would have even been made without that Crossfit money. So what are you gonna do?



I don't have an opinion on crossfit, but I thought of this.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

^^^ I use sharpies like that all the time on things , and those shoes would be no exception.
Sorry to offend any crossfitters (if it does), but that's one of the most boring sports I've ever attempted to watch in my life. Just doesn't play well on TV, kind of like a track meet.


----------



## gunshow86de

TRENCHLORD said:


> ^^^ I use sharpies like that all the time on things , and those shoes would be no exception.
> Sorry to offend any crossfitters (if it does), but that's one of the most boring sports I've ever attempted to watch in my life. Just doesn't play well on TV, kind of like a track meet.



At the risk of sounding like a total misogynist, have you tried watching the women's competition?


----------



## Guamskyy

TRENCHLORD said:


> ^^^ I use sharpies like that all the time on things , and those shoes would be no exception.
> Sorry to offend any crossfitters (if it does), but that's one of the most boring sports I've ever attempted to watch in my life. Just doesn't play well on TV, kind of like a track meet.



I did CrossFit for 2 years and I agree, watching it on TV isn't all that interesting. I'l go out to local competitions and cheer on some buddies, but it's definitely more of a "live atmosphere" to really appreciate it.


----------



## Ibanezsam4

^ How do those shoes compare feel-wise to other weightlifting shoes?


----------



## gunshow86de

Ibanezsam4 said:


> ^ How do those shoes compare feel-wise to other weightlifting shoes?



I just ordered them yesterday, so I haven't had a chance to try them out yet. But most reviews I've read indicate that they'll solve at least one problem I'm having, that Chuck's are far too narrow. In Chuck's, my little toe will either curl under or over the rest (and sometimes rip the nail out when I'm going heavy and really trying to "spread the floor"). 

I was squatting in Olympic shoes, but I've found that I prefer a wide stance for low-bar. Generally, a wide stance doesn't work well with Oly shoes. So I switched back to Chucks at the beginning of the year, and I "find the groove" more consistently than with the Oly shoes. I still use the Oly shoes for front squats and overhead pressing though.


----------



## jaxadam

guambomb832 said:


> I did CrossFit for 2 years and I agree, watching it on TV isn't all that interesting. I'l go out to local competitions and cheer on some buddies, but it's definitely more of a "live atmosphere" to really appreciate it.



Yeah, it's not very exciting to watch unless you either know an athlete and are cheering on buddies or know the workouts and have any favorites.

I wish there were more of a divide between casual crossfitters and the competition ones. We were actually talking about this today in class. A lot of us just do it for fun, but get lumped into the category of the hardcore competitors' lifestyles and lifestyle choices. At the end of the day, I'm all for someone doing something healthy they enjoy and being SAFE about it.


----------



## Guamskyy

jaxadam said:


> Yeah, it's not very exciting to watch unless you either know an athlete and are cheering on buddies or know the workouts and have any favorites.
> 
> I wish there were more of a divide between casual crossfitters and the competition ones. We were actually talking about this today in class. A lot of us just do it for fun, but get lumped into the category of the hardcore competitors' lifestyles and lifestyle choices. At the end of the day, I'm all for someone doing something healthy they enjoy and being SAFE about it.



You CrossFit but don't paleo? Don't take advocare? Don't know what movements to do in Cindy or Fran? Don't own nanos? You don't CrossFit then... haha I kid I kid.

It's all the publicity (positive or negative) that causes the lumping of casual and competitive CrossFitters.


----------



## gunshow86de

Pulled 480lbs for a double tonight. Slowly creeping towards my goal of 500 by end of March.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

gunshow86de said:


> I just ordered them yesterday, so I haven't had a chance to try them out yet. But most reviews I've read indicate that they'll solve at least one problem I'm having, that Chuck's are far too narrow. In Chuck's, my little toe will either curl under or over the rest (and sometimes rip the nail out when I'm going heavy and really trying to "spread the floor").
> 
> I was squatting in Olympic shoes, but I've found that I prefer a wide stance for low-bar. Generally, a wide stance doesn't work well with Oly shoes. So I switched back to Chucks at the beginning of the year, and I "find the groove" more consistently than with the Oly shoes. I still use the Oly shoes for front squats and overhead pressing though.




I also like some heel elevation for over-head pressing . 


Wrestling shoes aren't bad for most stuff though, as long as one has generally good stabilization through the feet.
They're kind of like being barefoot while wearing ankle wraps.
I love the way they feel on the ankles when laced nice and tight.


----------



## Ibanezsam4

TRENCHLORD said:


> Wrestling shoes aren't bad for most stuff though, as long as one has generally good stabilization through the feet.
> They're kind of like being barefoot while wearing ankle wraps.
> I love the way they feel on the ankles when laced nice and tight.



I lift in five fingers so this idea intrigues me. 


pulled 315 for a triple last night. took 2 minutes to recover, went back and pulled it for a single. That last lift felt 10x better than the first pull i did in the previous set. I took a mental note of what i did and will now apply that across the board... Convince that the missed lift at 335 was more mental than anything


----------



## jaxadam

guambomb832 said:


> You CrossFit but don't paleo? Don't take advocare? Don't know what movements to do in Cindy or Fran? Don't own nanos? You don't CrossFit then... haha I kid I kid.
> 
> It's all the publicity (positive or negative) that causes the lumping of casual and competitive CrossFitters.



Ha ha, yeah, it's all about that Paleo Lu Lu Lemon Gym Jones.

We actually do a modified paleo, but have been doing that for way longer than we've been going to crossfit. I actually do know the movements for Cindy and Fran, and sadly a bunch of other named workouts as well that I am horrible at. I have a pair of the Reebok One Trainers, but I will admit I am pretty envious of the new Nanos.


----------



## gunshow86de

jaxadam said:


> Ha ha, yeah, it's all about that Paleo Lu Lu Lemon Gym Box Jones.



FTFY. Never dare call a Crossfitter's box a gym. You'll be in for a lecture with terms like "globo-gym" being thrown around.


----------



## MikeH

I'm actually neutral on the CrossFit side of things these days. For a while, I was adamantly against it, and even still am not a proponent of it. But it seems as though it's catching enough hype for some people to take it seriously and try to be safe and competitive about it.

That being said, I doubt you'll ever catch me in a "box".


----------



## UnquestionablePresence

I think it gets more flak than it deserves. It's relatively new, so there are still plenty of kinks that need to be worked out of the system, and many people's first impression of it comes from fail compilation videos on YouTube. I didn't want to say anything about it at first because I was afraid of a flame war, but it seems like everything is cool right now.

It's a fad, and people on the internet like to pick on fads. They do dangerous, unhealthy things in CrossFit, but that can be said about any sport at a high enough level. Competitors aren't in it to be healthy; they are in it to win. It might not be the best system for building strength, mass, etc., but that's not everyone's goal. It seems like those that are good at CrossFit incorporate more typical strength training, anyways. The way I see it if you want to do it and it will help you reach your goals, do it. 

That being said, I don't want to do it. I'd rather use simpler systems. Get my core lifts in with some bodybuilding work instead of doing a set of single-legged sandbag snatches on a bosu ball followed by throwing a medicine ball at a wall while juggling an open glass vase with my feet followed by god knows what else. CrossFit metcon stuff always looks really goofy to me, and high rep olympic lifts are just hell. I've done 8 rep sets of cleans before. Do not want.


----------



## gunshow86de

Yeah, I would say the average Crossfitter is fine. It's the one's that completely buy in to the "Crossfit Lifestyle" that are annoying. Especially since most of them never even considered lifting free weights until it became trendy. And now they tout Crossfit like it is the only way to get in shape. And how they will talk your ear off (completely unsolicited, btw) about how amazing Crossfit is. They're sort of like vegans in that way. 

Side note: it drives me absolutely fvcking nuts when I hear one of them talk about their Puh-lay-oh diet. It's Pay-lee-oh, as in Paleolithic, you morons!


----------



## jaxadam

gunshow86de said:


> FTFY. Never dare call a Crossfitter's box a gym. You'll be in for a lecture with terms like "globo-gym" being thrown around.



I was referring to this Gym Jones.

https://www.gymjones.com/


----------



## Defi

crossfit is still cooler than bodybuilding.

i actually am pretty happy to see how it has brought weigtlifting to a much wider scope. that being said you'll never find me competing in a WOD... or running very far.

but would definitely lift at a crossfit... uhh... facility? Hey... the sport seems to attract more women than any other fitness facet and i like girls that lift


----------



## Ibanezsam4

I will never completely knock hybrid training (crossfit is a trade mark, not a training style) because i know for a fact a WOD would kill me, as i am not conditioned for it. Professional athletes have used training systems similar to what we know as crossfit for years before it was wide spread.

so kudos to the people who can do it, and do it well. cuz they are strong as fuq. 

i know people say its unsafe and the stacking of exercises is dangerous.. but they are no less dangerous than a standard lift done too heavy with bad technique (which can be seen every day in a standard gym). ego is the most dangerous thing in lifting, not the lift. 

is there a lot of ego is crossfit? sure. same can be said for power lifting which has gained a bit of an ego since its recent surge in popularity. are they superior lifting styles to one another? no. there are plenty of criticisms of power lifting, but they won't be heard ad nauseam until it hits the mainstream

im not a fan of crossfit, but it does more for people who try it than spin classes ever will. plus its done more to grow Oly lifting which is only a good thing. 

there's no right or wrong training method to lift weights. just people who criticize others for doing it. 



Defi said:


> crossfit is still cooler than bodybuilding.



this in spades


----------



## UnquestionablePresence

Yesterday I switched it up a little with deadlifts to get my numbers moving again. I stacked my mats up to about a 5.25" block per side (Puts the bar a bit above the mid-shin for me), warmed up to 335, and pulled a set of 10. I left a few reps in the tank, or possibly even more considering that the first 6-7 reps had very little pause in between them and I usually take my time with deadlifts (Last PR set I pulled was a set of 6 and it took me a little over a minute ). From here, I am going to add 10 pounds per week and shoot for 10 reps every time. I was going to do touch and go reps, but I changed my mind during the warm ups yesterday and settled on dead stop reps instead.

The goal is to get to around 405x10 off of the 5.25" blocks and then begin stripping one .75" mat per week until I am on the floor, although I'll skip from 2 mats straight to the floor. My goal at the end of this is to get 405x8 from the floor. I'm not sure how long this will take. Wrapping this up in May would be perfect; however, I am not quite sure if I will be able to progress as according to plan every week. Block pulls are a new movement for me, and I haven't ever done high rep deadlifts consistently, so maybe the new stimulus will allow for some pretty great gains. A little bit after that I might try to pull 500, which would be a 3x bodyweight pull for me even if I gained a few pounds between now and then. Speaking of which, not entirely sure yet, but I may finally be slowly pushing past my weight gain plateau. I need a few more days of empty stomach morning weigh ins before I can say for sure, but I think I am getting there.


----------



## MikeH

Pulled 405 beltless and 440 with a belt this morning. It felt awesome, considering my last PR was two weeks ago at 425, and I hitched it like a bitch. Numbers going up. Aiming for 265 bench, 445 squat, and 460 deadlift at meet time in April.


----------



## canuck brian

Defi said:


> crossfit is still cooler than bodybuilding.lift



Yeah, who needs proper form and safety anyways.


----------



## Ibanezsam4

canuck brian said:


> Yeah, who needs proper form and safety anyways.



not to start a flame war, but let's be honest, no style of lifting is exempt from this at any level


----------



## gunshow86de

Ibanezsam4 said:


> not to start a flame war, but let's be honest, no style of lifting is exempt from this at any level



I would say Crossfit is inherently more dangerous. Something can "go wrong" any time you are lifting heavy objects. In powerlifting/Oly weightlifting, you program safely (ie. appropriate reps for % of 1RM, appropriate overall volume, adequate recovery time, etc...). Where with Crossfit, it seems like they intentionally "program the danger." 

For example, take that guys that got paralyzed doing Crossfit last year. It turns out the WOD he was doing involved a 3 mile sprint for time, immediately followed by doing heavy snatch for max reps. It shouldn't be all that surprising that he had to bail on a lift, just very unfortunate that it dropped right on his spine.


----------



## jaxadam

canuck brian said:


> Yeah, who needs proper form and safety anyways.



I'd say my form on some lifts drastically improved once starting crossfit. Well, at least those lifts I'd never done before!



gunshow86de said:


> Where with Crossfit, it seems like they intentionally "program the danger."



I'd say kinda, but not really. I think it's pretty much up to the athlete to figure out what's dangerous and what's not, and I wouldn't say a vast majority of the WOD's are super dangerous. I think the problem can be in the coaching; I'm sure there are crossfit outfits out there that may push their members a little too far into a realm where they may be either uncomfortable or in over their head. I think it's all in knowing what's safe as far as movements and weights, and applying a little common sense.


----------



## UnquestionablePresence

I haven't squatted or benched heavy in a little bit. I'm giving those two movements a break in preparation for the competition this Saturday; however, after a week off of school due to a snow storm we are finally going back. I don't know about Thursday or Friday, but I'm pretty sure I'm going to be squatting heavy tomorrow. One thing I have noticed is that squats feel way lighter on my back at school than they do at home. I hope that applies to the squats at the competition as well. I feel like I am more confident lifting in a crowded, noisy room. Maybe sometime in the future if I live in a more population-dense area I might consider running a free, private-ish gym (I guess this just translates to acquiring lifting buddies lol) off of my property if I have the money to get enough gear for a group to train.

I'm curious to see what my max bench is now. I seem to progress pretty linearly with weighted dips despite my slow bench progress. Unless if my max has jumped up a bit since I last benched heavy a week or so ago then I wonder why the hell I am progressing faster with dips than I am with benching.


----------



## gunshow86de

Got some of my goodies today. Those Reebok shoes are legit. Nice wide toe box. Really quality stitching. The sole is perfectly flat and thin. It feels like a minimalist shoe with a sole that isn't floppy. If any of you are thinking about getting some, follow the advice I got and order a 1/2 size down. Mine fit like a glove. 

The hip circle is pretty cool. Didn't do much before squatting today except walking forwards, backwards, sideways and a few squats. Really felt nice and got a ton of blood flowing to my hips. I hope it will have a nice impact on my left hip that seems to be sore 90% of the time.

The Gangsta Wraps are nice too. My Metal silvers are made of stiffer material, but I can actually get the Gangsta Wraps tighter with less pulling effort. I actually made my right hand fall asleep while I was doing 225 for max reps (more on that later ). 

The Slingshot itself is interesting. I didn't use it "correctly" today. I didn't go heavy because it's my deload week. But I did do 225 for max reps in honor of the NFL combine this week. I got to 29 reps and my right hand fell asleep (see above). I couldn't grip the bar tightly, and the spring from the Slingshot made me almost drop it on me*. Decided it was a good idea to stop it there. It's definitely going to take a while to get used to the feel of the Slingshot.

*I realize the irony of talking about Crossfit being unsafe and I almost dropped a bar on myself with "deload weight." In my defense, I had the safety bars up to catch it.


----------



## Ibanezsam4

gunshow86de said:


> Got some of my goodies today. Those Reebok shoes are legit. Nice wide toe box. Really quality stitching. The sole is perfectly flat and thin. It feels like a minimalist shoe with a sole that isn't floppy. If any of you are thinking about getting some, follow the advice I got and order a 1/2 size down. Mine fit like a glove.



You had me at wide toe box


----------



## canuck brian

Ibanezsam4 said:


> not to start a flame war, but let's be honest, no style of lifting is exempt from this at any level



Maybe statements like "crossfit is still cooler than bodybuilding" should be avoided then. 

I'm only saying the safety thing is a huge concern because almost every video of crossfit i see (aside from the crossfit fails), there is a distinct lack of preparation and safety and usually a terrible display of form. I'm not sure who's been teaching deadlifts, but when i see guys doing 250+ deadlifts using their back only, I can't get behind any system where trainers aren't correcting this.

I get that there are tons of people with perfect form, in shape and are safe about it, but that is not the observed majority. Even the competitions are full of people pushing with their knee to get a bar up for a deadlift. If you need a certification to teach a crossfit class, having anyone in your class do something like that should get it revoked.


----------



## gunshow86de

^

I take it you aren't a fan of the signature Crossfit kipping deadlift?


----------



## canuck brian

gunshow86de said:


> ^
> 
> I take it you aren't a fan of the signature Crossfit kipping deadlift?



I like my spine and disks in working order.


----------



## Ibanezsam4

canuck brian said:


> Maybe statements like "crossfit is still cooler than bodybuilding" should be avoided then.



depends which part of bodybuilding you're referring to. the body building prep, the actual work of sculpting the muscles for a look.. 100% behind talking about that all day. Lifting weights is lifting weights to me regardless of the goal.

now when referring to the pageantry of BB... not for me. the exhibition of crossfit is still lifting based and competition driven. way more exciting IMO. 



canuck brian said:


> I get that there are tons of people with perfect form, in shape and are safe about it, but that is not the observed majority. Even the competitions are full of people pushing with their knee to get a bar up for a deadlift.



you must dislike strongman too, no?

my point is at increasing levels of competition athletes do more extreme things to win and yes, they are unsafe... Branch Warren is a great example at someone who has injured himself a lot in BB.


----------



## gunshow86de

Ibanezsam4 said:


> Branch Warren is a great example at someone who has injured himself a lot in BB.



I shouldn't laugh, but.............


----------



## Ibanezsam4

gunshow86de said:


> I shouldn't laugh, but.............




exactly what i was thinking of when i said that. i have never seen a more perfect example of training smart in my life: when you can't handle a bump in the stirrup without your whole hamstring pulling


----------



## canuck brian

Ibanezsam4 said:


> depends which part of bodybuilding you're referring to. the body building prep, the actual work of sculpting the muscles for a look.. 100% behind talking about that all day. Lifting weights is lifting weights to me regardless of the goal.
> 
> now when referring to the pageantry of BB... not for me. the exhibition of crossfit is still lifting based and competition driven. way more exciting IMO.
> 
> 
> you must dislike strongman too, no?



Oh god, the entire BB for "look at me!". Yeah....not a fan of that at all. I work out and lift stuff because i want to get stronger and faster.

Strongman - those guys are already massive, have gone thru ridiculous training and know what they're doing outside of proper form is incorrect. They know the consequences. My ex goes to a strongman gym and they preach proper form above all.

Watching a noob deadlift way too much weight on day one with improper form is a completely different story though. That video of Kevin Ogar paralyzing himself is a glaring example. That entire space behind him should have been clear so the damn bar could roll back away from him. Careless and stupid.


----------



## MikeH

Strength trumps all. End of discussion.


----------



## canuck brian

MikeH said:


> Strength trumps all. End of discussion.


----------



## anthonyferguson

For you UK folks looking for belts etc,

https://www.strengthshop.co.uk/belts/lever-buckle-belts/strengthshop-13mm-lever-belt.html

I can recommend this. Got one recently and the quality is top dog. I know a lot of folks who have got stuff from strengthshop (shoes in particular) and swear by it also.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

Looks like some bloody good stuff there.


----------



## anthonyferguson

yes sirree. I don't know if they ship worldwide, but belts are IPF approved and stuff. Also when I eventually have my own place and set up my own gym I'll be getting everything from there!


----------



## TRENCHLORD

Off topic, but wth.
I recently got "stuck" in my belt .

I only use the belt for overhead pressing and for barbell curls, that's about it really.
Hadn't used the belt in awhile and my weight is less than it used to be, so I choked it up to a brand new unused pair of holes (dual hole style buckle).
Bad move. I should have taken the time to run my round file through them a bit first, but it was the heat of the workout and I didn't want to cool down any.

Yes I know all the tricks of getting a belt off, but they weren't working .
Literally came close to straining/ripping my pecs and shoulders just to get out of it.
Once one of the buckle-pins was free I knew I had it, but I was starting to get worried and thought I might have to go take a drive to get another set of hands to help.

Needless to say I've since taken the time to file out the holes a bit, like they get naturally stretched after taking it on and off several times. 
It's still takes a good pull to unlatch it, but it's now a one-person job at least.


----------



## UnquestionablePresence

I came into the bench and squat competition today super sore, unfortunately. I've lifted sore before and it didn't seem to affect me much last time, but today I couldn't even get my first squat attempt of 350, which I had done for 4 reps just a few days ago. I managed a 180 bench.

I saw some cool things, though. I saw a 170-ish Freshman/Sophomore squat 405. I saw some bigger freshmen squat 455/460. A senior squatted 505. Some guy in my weight class (155-165) benched 295, and one of the volunteer spotters benched 405 for 5 paused reps after the competition just for fun (definitely not a high schooler in case you were wondering, lol). Seeing lifts like that in person is way better than seeing them on the internet IMO. My school took 3rd overall in the freshman/sophomore division.

I'm not really upset that I bombed out. Honestly, the only difference between me now and me if I would have got my squat attempts and placed would be that I would be sitting here bored with a medal instead of just sitting here bored . I'm not a competitive lifter.


----------



## gunshow86de

TRENCHLORD said:


> Off topic, but wth.
> I recently got "stuck" in my belt .



I know that feeling. It happened to me once in a brand new (i.e. stiff as hell) 13mm belt. I was already breathing hard after a set of squats. When I couldn't get it off, I started to have a bit of a panic attack. Which, of course, only made me breath harder and push out harder against the belt. I genuinely considered cutting it off, but then I realized my tin snips probably can't even cut through 13mm of leather. Luckily I was able to calm down enough to finally pop the prong out of the hole.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

gunshow86de said:


> I know that feeling. It happened to me once in a brand new (i.e. stiff as hell) 13mm belt. I was already breathing hard after a set of squats. When I couldn't get it off, I started to have a bit of a panic attack. Which, of course, only made me breath harder and push out harder against the belt. I genuinely considered cutting it off, but then I realized my tin snips probably can't even cut through 13mm of leather. Luckily I was able to calm down enough to finally pop the prong out of the hole.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

Bodybuilding.com emailed article on over-training and lack thereof.
I usually skim over these and delete from my inbox, but there are some decent pieces by Mike Bell and others sometimes worth reading and/or watching.

Bodybuilding.com - The Truth About Overtraining


----------



## Guamskyy

So bad news bears for me the next 6 weeks:

Went to the orthopedic doctor to get my knees checked out since they have been giving me some aggravation lately, but nothing to severe to stop me from training, and it turns out I got chondromalacia in both of my knees (yayy aka yikes). I had a feeling I had that before visiting the doctor due to an extensive amount of research on my problem (grinding sensation/sound in knees through certain range of motions of the knee).

The doctor didn't necessarily tell me whether or not to stop doing what I am already doing, but he did tell me to ease up on the weight (obviously), but the problem is that I train the Olympic Lifts 3x/week with added accessory work 2x/week, so I have to go easy or not at all with the snatch, clean, maybe split jerk(still puts stress on your planting knee), front & back squat. Currently I've been working on stuff I neglect/don't have time for/don't want to do after an intense 1.5 hour heavy-volume Oly-Lift session, basically the beach muscles haha. I don't go into physical therapy till later this week, but just exercises that they will teach me to do at home for the next 6 weeks.

Bummer for me, I was just starting to get strong and put up good weights! I've read that box squats don't put that much stress on the knees, so maybe I'll use that as substitute for squats, hell it will put in some good posterior chain work too, or I'll just throw in some more barbell good mornings or heavy russian kettlebell swings if box squats are inappropriate.


----------



## Millul

Hello!

Good to see some fellow lifters here!
I've been participating in IPF powerlifting competitions for a few years, in the -83 kg class - well short of amazing numbers, but its fun!

Raw: 190-130-200 (gym numbers)
Geared (IPF single ply, meets): 235-170-217.5

I haven't been able to train well the last 2 yeras (work, life, etc) but I'm getting back on the train and I hope I'll be able to close in on my past numbers later this year, and hopefully bet them soon thereafter!


----------



## Ibanezsam4

I think I have finally reached my caloric maintenance to be 188lbs. Getting stronger, but not getting bigger. I have added 230 calories per day and haven't budged, slowly adding in 100 calories a day until i start seeing 1-2lbs a week


----------



## soliloquy

after about 7 months off from gym while recovering from a knee injury, i started going to the gym again. 
i was expecting my strength not to be there nor my stamina. but i have to say, my chest and arms day (chest paired with upper back. arms paired with abs) seem to work just fine. however, my legs and lower day are kicking my ass far worse than i thought. 

the first day i went back, i did 4 exercises. deadlifts with superset of lunges. then leg extensions superset with leg curls. after that i felt depleted from energy and my stomach was in knots. i had to sit down for a bit and actually threw up...on an empty stomach...wtf?! i want to be able to squat along with all those workouts but my energy is not letting me anything more than 4 exercise. normally on leg days, i was doing these:
deadlifts
lunges
squats
calf raises
leg extension
leg curl
(sometimes) back extension

my stomach just feels weird doing all those, and my energy wont let me do anything more than that...

its been 3 weeks since i've been in the gym. last week, i was able to squeeze in hip-thrust/bridge for a bit, but it wasn't as heavy as i wanted and i wasn't sore after either...today, 3rd leg work out since i returned, and after 4 exercises, stomach was in knots and felt super bloated and almost waiting to explode. 


in other news, since december 31st, i am ~18 lbs lighter. down about 2-4ish inches in my waist too...


----------



## Millul

I would say...keep it light and slow. Start with some low weight/mid rep range squats (if your knee allows it) and slowly add volume/weight as you regain strength and stamina.

Something very basic, like a 4x4 the 1st week, then 2x5+2x4 the second, and so on...

Have you tried training with something in your stomach, like a light snack 1 ore before lifting? Maybe the empty stomach is throwing you off, or you're just pushing it too hard too soon.


----------



## soliloquy

Millul said:


> I would say...keep it light and slow. Start with some low weight/mid rep range squats (if your knee allows it) and slowly add volume/weight as you regain strength and stamina.
> 
> Something very basic, like a 4x4 the 1st week, then 2x5+2x4 the second, and so on...
> 
> Have you tried training with something in your stomach, like a light snack 1 ore before lifting? Maybe the empty stomach is throwing you off, or you're just pushing it too hard too soon.



well, the first week when i started working out again, chest/upper back day went well. granted i tired out must faster than usual, but still, i was able to complete the entire day. arms/abs day were easy. but again, they always have been easy to me (smaller muscles, low energy required). but legs was a completely different scenario. i did have a small breakfast about 3 hours before i started working out that day and i threw up, mostly water.

second week i went in empty stomach and though i didn't feel like vomiting, i felt very gassy, or almost as if i'm going to shit my pants. though nothing was in my system as i made sure of it before going to the gym. third leg day was yesterday, and again, i felt like i am going to shit my pants. the only thing i had in my system was water that i was drinking during my breaks.

but for what its worth, even when i was working out regularly before my injury, i always struggled with throwing squats AND deadlifts on the same day. if i was doing deadlifts, then i'd do leg press instead as squats would kill me with free weights. free weight squats, then i had to skip on dead lifts, or do super light deadlifts...though i feel my muscles need more than the light weights, so i dont feel as if i did my muscles justice....

maybe i should try pre-workouts again. last time they did nothing for me...


i'll try doing the 4x4 for a bit and see how that goes. i was doing 3 sets of 8-10 and found it too challenging.... :S

thanks for the suggestion


----------



## Millul

Squatting and deadlifting on the same day is not easy, one of the two will suffer. Just ma,e sure you alternate them (heavy squat/light DL week 1, viceversa on week 2, and so on)


----------



## MikeH

Went up to The Arnold Classic yesterday as a VIP with Animal Pak. Spent the entire day in The Cage, then got to go lift with all of the pros at Metro Fitness afterwards. I was a bit starstruck to say the least. I saw Andrey Malanichev squat 805x3, saw a deadlift battle between Dan Green and Derek Poundstone where they tied at 815, saw another deadlift battle between Jesse Norris and Kade Weber. Norris hit 750, Weber hit 850, then dropped to 750 for 8 reps. Saw Derek Kendall (the biggest son of a bitch I've ever seen in my life) military press 500 eek, then hit 405 for 14 reps, and then lastly saw Richard Hawthorne deadlift 600 for 4 reps at 132 lbs body weight, and then do 405 for 14. Here's a couple pictures I snagged. Be gentle. I'm small as hell in all of these. 

With Dan Green.






With Brandon Lilly.





With Frank McGrath (I look laughably small next to him )





Jay Nera, Grant Higa, Dan Green, and Garrett Griffin.





Andrey Malanichev.





Afterwards, I got a personal deadlift examination from Richard Hawthorne, bench tips from Garrett Griffin, and pulled a PR of 405x2 beltless. I'm still a bit in awe. It was an amazing day. Time to go do some curls&#8230;.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

Millul said:


> Squatting and deadlifting on the same day is not easy, one of the two will suffer. Just ma,e sure you alternate them (heavy squat/light DL week 1, viceversa on week 2, and so on)





Every now and then I go back on a 2-way split for awhile that consist of an "upper-body" day and a "full-body" day in which squats and deads are together.
Workout A; bench, rows, overheads, pulldowns/ups or maybe inclines, pulldowns, flat-dumbell-bench, rows.

Workout B; would be either heavy deads and light squats or vise-versa, and then some abs or other core stuff.

A
off
B
off
A
off
off
B
off
off
repeat

I'd remove an off-day anytime I felt good and was ready for more, even if I had lifted the day before.

Also on a pull, legs, push rotation I'd place deadlift with legs and rotate light/heavy like that, or sometimes just only do one of them and just switch every week.


----------



## Millul

MikeH said:


> Went up to The Arnold Classic yesterday as a VIP with Animal Pak. Spent the entire day in The Cage, then got to go lift with all of the pros at Metro Fitness afterwards. I was a bit starstruck to say the least. I saw Andrey Malanichev squat 805x3, saw a deadlift battle between Dan Green and Derek Poundstone where they tied at 815, saw another deadlift battle between Jesse Norris and Kade Weber. Norris hit 750, Weber hit 850, then dropped to 750 for 8 reps. Saw Derek Kendall (the biggest son of a bitch I've ever seen in my life) military press 500 eek, then hit 405 for 14 reps, and then lastly saw Richard Hawthorne deadlift 600 for 4 reps at 132 lbs body weight, and then do 405 for 14. Here's a couple pictures I snagged. Be gentle. I'm small as hell in all of these.
> 
> 
> Afterwards, I got a personal deadlift examination from Richard Hawthorne, bench tips from Garrett Griffin, and pulled a PR of 405x2 beltless. I'm still a bit in awe. It was an amazing day. Time to go do some curls.



Whoa Mike! That's quite THE lifting experience right there! Seeing what these guys are capable of just from a few feet away really puts things in perspective, doesn't it? and pumps you up for good!
I've been to the 2012 European bench championship, there were some amazing athletes there, and I was awestruck, but nowhere close to what your Arnold experience looks!

Care to share what Garrett told you?


----------



## MikeH

Nothing too far out of what is repeated frequently. He mentioned stability in the descent, as if you're pulling the bar down to you, is key to basically "load up" and explode on the press command. Keeping everything tight and controlled is far more effective than thinking that dropping the bar fast will save energy. Having that control gives you more control of the bar both ways.


----------



## Millul

Thanks!


----------



## UnderTheSign

Mike man that's awesome. I haven't been to the forvm for a while now but the Animal community is great and they have some of the sickest athlethes. I remember a couple years ago everyone was pushing Higa and P Diesel to do another deadlift battle and they ended up doing 500x20 or something like that.


----------



## MikeH

Yeah, they did reps for 500, the following year they did reps for 525. I think Higa ended up beating P with 14 to P's 9 or 10. There were a few more deadlift competitions this year, but they weren't reps. More of a race to the highest weight. It was pretty awesome.


----------



## Defi

500 military press is absolutely god damn ridiculous. don't hear about that once for every twenty 700lb+ squats or deadlifts

I spent two months working on single rep efficiency in a planned progression. Tested myself today and broke my squat PR @420. I weigh 217 so it's not that fantastic. Aiming for 450 in a couple months, 500 in 6 months... if I'm still into this thing that long haha.

I have changed my routine to be very very simple.

Day 1 - Squat/press
Day 2 - Deadlift/bench

Basically just feel it out each workout. If I feel great, I'll go for an "easy max" attempt as I call it, or do some heavy clusters, or some overloaded half reps as a finisher. If not, I'll stick around the 75%-85% range and do sets of 3-5, or slow eccentrics and a pause at the weak point in the concentric. Occasional band pulls for shoulders and farmer's walks once the snow is finished melting and the yard isn't a mess.

some weeks I'll do some rowing or pullups. Maybe 3 weeks out of every 4-6 months I'll do some bastard bitch routine with lots of pulling and some shoulder isolation.

Unsurprisingly, the fewer exercises I do the more weight I can do in them. I am fortunate that my body grows very symmetrically without any isolation. Fortunate as in, it's a bonus, I probably wouldn't spend much time addressing it in any case.


----------



## Fiction

Just starting on Jim Stoppani's 12 week shortcut to size, I'm really just after something to follow and give me a bit of guidance, i'll most likely change it up a bit after 6 weeks or so, but it's looking pretty good for now. I'm currently 80kgs, and have been struggling between the 75-80 range for the previous 6 months (Illness, Travel) and I'm really starting to make some serious progress in the previous month, so going to really start detailing down everything I do in the gym, and everything I eat. Has anyone done this program that can attest to it, or suggest changes? I think i'll enjoy the rep change weekly.

I've never tried for 1RM so I can't really offer any details like that, but at this point I'm squatting 100kg x 12 for 3 sets, bench is around 60kg for 8-10 Reps and 3 sets, and Deadlifts i've literally only just added in the previous month and I'm doing around 80kg for 8 Reps, 3 sets, Just really building up my confidence with them right now. I stagnated visually on my body for a while, my diet has been the worst thing in relation to work to be honest, as being a chef really leaves me with not much time for planning and eating (Surprise, I work in a kitchen and struggle to eat!). I can see fat very slowly falling off and extremely slight muscle growth, but think its time to get a bit more serious, as its almost been a year since I've started in the gym!


----------



## TRENCHLORD

Defi said:


> I have changed my routine to be very very simple.
> 
> Day 1 - Squat/press
> Day 2 - Deadlift/bench




Wondering how many times you'll be able to cycle through those 2 workouts in a month, or maybe the simpler way of asking is; 
How many heavy lifting sessions will you get through in a month on that 2-day split?


----------



## Defi

TRENCHLORD said:


> Wondering how many times you'll be able to cycle through those 2 workouts in a month, or maybe the simpler way of asking is;
> How many heavy lifting sessions will you get through in a month on that 2-day split?


 
I would ideally have it set up in 8 week periods:

--------------------------------------------------------
*week 1 - 6 (about 2 cycles a week):
*
Cycle 1: conservative max effort on both exercises (either 1RM, 2RM, or 3RM)

The important part is that heavy days do not mean frying the nervous system, which happens when you start needing to get pumped up to hit a set, or if you feel a slight doubt or fear, or if you go near failure, etc. If that happens I stop, and 95% of the time I stop before it happens.

Cycle 2: do sets in the 75%-85% of previous conservative max incorporating techniques to address weak points such as pause sets, slow eccentrics, chains (which I should get), bands, overloaded half reps, and less likely some assistance exercises. I much prefer to do assistance work with the same movement pattern as the exercise but in a different method.
*
week 7:*

deload: stick to sets below 65% of recent or best max. workouts don't need to be very long
*
week 8:*

retest 1RM
-balls to the wall... within reason
------------------------------------------------

and then repeat that 8 week cycle or do a 3ish week phase where I basically focus solely on one exercise.


That's been my general flow for a long time, although in reality it's much less structured. but i'm getting over the phase of "oooo i should try that in my routine" so it's getting easy to stick to something.




hit 505 in dl yesterday, form was not that great... will not be going for a max deadlift again for a couple months haha. It was my first time using mixed grip instead of straps, felt the need to keep it bare as I was competing against my cousin.


----------



## UnquestionablePresence

Max week results:

Weighed in at 162 pounds at school (With clothes on)

Squat: 370 (Previous best: 340)
Bench: 185 (Previous best: 185 (Wish I was kidding, lol))
Clean: 195 (Previous best: 175)
(Didn't test deadlift, but I recently pulled a rep PR of 355x6)

I didn't get the 405 squat, but I abandoned that goal a few weeks ago. I need to work on setting more realistic goals, along with realizing that I won't gain like a newbie forever. I'm actually quite happy with the 370 squat.

In other news, I'm finally getting around to abandoning my raw squat club membership



and investing in a belt. I don't know why it has taken me so long to get a decent belt, but better late than never. Should have my hands on one sometime by the end of the month. As if the disparity between my bench and the other powerlifts wasn't big enough . I'm going through a little cycle of light deadlifting, so I figured now would be the best time to acclimate to using a belt. Gonna set some lovely PRs once I figure out how to use it properly.


----------



## Ibanezsam4

so starting Matt Kroc's bench program several weeks back has made me realize i should probably start giving my squat the same attention. 

starting to do a "squat every day" Bulgarian program. i did the math and i think my 1rm for squat is 340lbs, but im always hesitant to train up to that without a spotter (crappy squat rack, don't feel safe in it).. so playing around with volume at lower percentages is fun for me. 

plus the frequency of squatting is really going to help strengthen all the stabilizers which i feel are holding me back.


----------



## MikeH

Hit a 190 lb push press yesterday. Tried for 200, but it wasn't moving. Worked up to a 165 strict press, then 185 push press, missed a 195, dropped to 190 and hit it easy, then missed 200. I don't do OHP enough, and I think my bench is really going to benefit from stepping it up.


----------



## gunshow86de

I'm just curious if anyone else is getting annoyed by the Eddie Hall video being posted everywhere as the "new deadlift world record?" Look, he's damn strong, but until he ditches the straps he's got nothing on Benedikt.


----------



## UnderTheSign

gunshow86de said:


> I'm just curious if anyone else is getting annoyed by the Eddie Hall video being posted everywhere as the "new deadlift world record?" Look, he's damn strong, but until he ditches the straps he's got nothing on Benedikt.


I wouldn't call it nothing and don't find the video annoying at all. Straps or no straps. He's a goddamn monster. 
While he did the 460 strapless, Benedikt did last years 461 with straps too and I didn't hear anyone whining about that one. That's a kilo below Eddies record, too.


It's also just the difference in competition. Bennies 460 still stands as the official raw record while Eddie now has the strongman record.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

I don't count anything as "official" if it includes straps, belts, suites, wraps ect...., but hey, that's just my personal opinion.
They're great tools that can be used to improve a workout, but IMO they've no place in competition.


----------



## gunshow86de

TRENCHLORD said:


> I don't count anything as "official" if it includes straps, belts, suites, wraps etc...., but hey, that's just my personal opinion.
> They're great tools that can be used to improve a workout, but IMO they've no place in competition.



I'm okay with belts and wrist wraps. Knee wraps, to me, get a bit too close to geared lifting for my personal taste. But, most federations distinguish between "Raw with" and "Raw without" wraps.

My main complaint is that the announcer specifically says to the crowd that he's going to beat the world record by 1 kg (Benedikts world record). He's directly comparing the 2 lifts, and (falsely) saying that Hall is breaking Benedikt's world record. And now tons of aggregating sites (that know nothing of powerlifting or strongman) are posting Eddie Hall's video as the world record. It doesn't help that I argue with people in the comments section.  One guy is trying to say that Brian Shaw's tire deadlift is better. I tried to explain how the bar starting almost 9 inches higher makes the tire deadlift much easier. But to him "it weighs the same whether it's tires or plates."

We all know that a "competition" deadlift, a deadlift with straps, and a tire deadlift are very different mechanically. But to most people, I come off as pedantic for trying to point out the differences (which is also frustrating).


----------



## TRENCHLORD

Yeah there wouldn't even be any records under my protocol , I just wish they would have a "true raw" organization where all that was worn was a pair of shorts and a t-shirt (no shoes either, just for the smell of it).
Even then it would be hard/impossible to eliminate the roids, especially far out from competitions. I guess I live in dream world sometimes, or at least wish I did.


----------



## UnderTheSign

gunshow86de said:


> I'm okay with belts and wrist wraps. Knee wraps, to me, get a bit too close to geared lifting for my personal taste. But, most federations distinguish between "Raw with" and "Raw without" wraps.
> 
> My main complaint is that the announcer specifically says to the crowd that he's going to beat the world record by 1 kg (Benedikts world record). He's directly comparing the 2 lifts, and (falsely) saying that Hall is breaking Benedikt's world record. And now tons of aggregating sites (that know nothing of powerlifting or strongman) are posting Eddie Hall's video as the world record. It doesn't help that I argue with people in the comments section.  One guy is trying to say that Brian Shaw's tire deadlift is better. I tried to explain how the bar starting almost 9 inches higher makes the tire deadlift much easier. But to him "it weighs the same whether it's tires or plates."
> 
> We all know that a "competition" deadlift, a deadlift with straps, and a tire deadlift are very different mechanically. But to most people, I come off as pedantic for trying to point out the differences (which is also frustrating).


No, the 1kg difference is between Benedikts record I posted and Eddie Halls record. The difference between Hall and Benedikts raw record is closer to 2kg. The previous world records in both raw and strongman were held by Benni so the announcer was right.

It IS a new deadlift world record, just a strongman not a raw/powerlifting record. 

Also Trench that'd be fun but I think belts to a certain degree also keep you more stable and prevent you from messing up your back so we'd probably see a lot more injured or early retiring lifters


----------



## TRENCHLORD

UnderTheSign said:


> Also Trench that'd be fun but I think belts to a certain degree also keep you more stable and prevent you from messing up your back so we'd probably see a lot more injured or early retiring lifters



True, although they'd likely not be lifting quite as much weight, but still true even then.


----------



## gunshow86de

UnderTheSign said:


> No, the 1kg difference is between Benedikts record I posted and Eddie Halls record. The difference between Hall and Benedikts raw record is closer to 2kg. The previous world records in both raw and strongman were held by Benni so the announcer was right.
> 
> It IS a new deadlift world record, just a strongman not a raw/powerlifting record.
> 
> Also Trench that'd be fun but I think belts to a certain degree also keep you more stable and prevent you from messing up your back so we'd probably see a lot more injured or early retiring lifters



Ahhh, I see. Sorry, didn't watch your video before replying to Trenchlord. I only knew of the older video of Benny (with the MHP logos everywhere). I guess he's rehabbed his bicep tear and is competing again.

Still, I'm much more impressed with 460kg in "bare" hands vs. 462 with straps. I have to give everything I have to grip the bar when I've got 460 _lbs_ on the bar.  Can't even imagine trying to hold 1,000+ lbs.


----------



## Ibanezsam4

TRENCHLORD said:


> True, although they'd likely not be lifting quite as much weight, but still true even then.



I think we'd see completely raw lifters achieve the weight... it would just take more time for records to be broken. 

im not against belts, but i think lifters should learn how to deep breathe properly before using them. i've lost count of how many times i see a lifter take in giant guppy breaths before hitting a squat and thinking "man, you barely took any air into your lungs." 

if more lifters knew how to compress air in their diaphragm, you would see less dependence on belts as a part of early training.


----------



## UnquestionablePresence

There aren't any serious downsides to using a belt, so I don't see why one wouldn't use one aside from personal preference, not being able to afford a decent one, and blood pressure or mobility issues. I've never seen any "It weakens your 'core'" arguments that are based on recent/believable evidence.

Although I do think it should be cycled in and out at least every once in a while like how multi-ply lifters have periods of raw lifting in their training, except it shouldn't be cycled out for as long as those lifters cycle out their suits.

I like all of the gear configurations from no shoes, no socks, and no belt to so much gear that you have to be moved to the squat rack in a wheelbarrow. Straps, belt, knee wraps etc. I don't care. If you are strong enough you will put up good numbers with and without all of the fancy stuff. I've never heard of anybody who could deadlift 900+ with straps that couldn't still lift obscene numbers even without the straps.

For those of you who have way too much free time

The Belt Bible &bull; Strengtheory


----------



## MikeH

I don't think it will make your core weaker, per se. But if you only train and compete with a belt on, you become reliant on the gear, which causes some people to be less efficient without it. I like to have weeks where I don't use a belt, knee wraps, or wrist wraps. But since I'm now 4 weeks out, I won't go without them, because I want to be able to use them as efficiently as possible, and I want to keep myself as injury-free as possible.


----------



## Ibanezsam4

UnquestionablePresence said:


> I've never seen any "It weakens your 'core'" arguments that are based on recent/believable evidence.
> 
> The Belt Bible &bull; Strengtheory



I didn't mean to imply it weakens your core, all it does is compress the air for you. With practice (10 minutes) you can learn to compress a full belly (diaphragm) of air that will press against your spine for support. 

i used to do an opera exercise where i would take my biggest diaphragmatic breath, hold it, and squeeze my expanded belly down until it looked normal. its the same principle as a belt. now im sure this has a ceiling, and when i see it i'll buy myself a good belt, but i just feel too many people rush to it early on in training for injury prevention


----------



## UnquestionablePresence

I didn't mean to imply that I thought you guys were arguing it weakens your core. I was just anticipating common rebuttals to using a belt, and you can still get absurdly strong without ever using any support gear. I don't believe there is a "limit" to completely unassisted lifting barring the extremes of human performance. I'd just prefer to squat and deadlift more by using a belt. I don't have any reservations about using support, so I figured why not?


----------



## Millul

Last week I made a small test, and it looks like I'm finally getting close to my old numbers again!

On thursday night I got a not-too-hard 180 kg squat in belt and sleeves, an on friday morning I got a rather easy 120 kg bench (could've doubled, maybe even tripled it) and 190kg deadlift.

I hate training in the morning, but friggin' MIKE TUCHSHERER was training with us, so taking a day off work and hitting the gym at 9am was a no-brainer.
The guy is uber strong (on friday, in far less than ideal conditions, he DLed 330kg, and benched a very easy 188kg x4) and also uber nice, the best part of the day was taking him and his family around downtown Florence...great times!


----------



## UnquestionablePresence

(Return of the potato camera. Those holes aren't anywhere near that rough-looking in person. Weird lighting effect.) Ordered this on Friday. It arrived yesterday, and I didn't even pay for any special shipping options. Similar story with the bar I ordered through these guys. Speedy shipping. Rogue is an awesome company. Anyways, I was originally going to order their economy model for about half the price, but I ended up settling on the higher end Ohio belt.

I don't know how stiff belts normally are when they arrive, but apparently according to reviews this one ships in a state that is quite comfortable out of the box. Some people talk about driving their trucks over their belts again and again when they arrive in the mail and stuff like that, but with the way this belt arrived I feel like doing something like that would be very unnecessary. It's stiff, but I find it pliable enough to begin using straight out of the box. All I've been doing is tightening it to the tightest setting that I can wear and then taking it off over and over again every now and then just to help loosen up the hole a bit and make it easier to take off.

I haven't used it yet, but I'll be squatting and deadlifting on Friday, so we will see how that goes with the belt.


----------



## Millul

HNB(elt)D!


----------



## Defi

IME mixed grip is easier still than straps... but it might be because my straps suck, and extrapolation from my maxes that are half of these world records lends itself to an err in accuracy. Further, I'm fairly certain most would counter my experience...


----------



## MikeH

I've only ever used straps once, and it was whilst doing a one-handed deadlift. I will say, I didn't feel like I had to tense my grip near as much as when doing double overhand or mixed grip. But that was one-handed, so who knows.


----------



## UnquestionablePresence

I used straps regularly for a month or so a while back. I found a little sweet spot when setting them up where I could just let the bar hang off of my wrists with my fingers barely grasping the bar. I went back to bare hands and chalk for a while, and now whenever I try to use straps it feels far from secure. I feel like mixed grip + chalk allows for a pretty lax grip compared to double overhand and hook grip. I grab the bar, but I don't really squeeze it when I use mixed grip + chalk. Haven't dropped a deadlift in what seems like forever, and I've been doing high rep touch and go lately. Still feels very secure; however, I woudn't say that I have a strong grip at all. I feel like mixed grip lets me be pretty lazy when it comes to holding onto the bar.

I've recently decided to experiment with hook grip. I haven't chalked up with it yet (I will this Friday), but it feels just a bit more secure than mixed grip does to me and the more uniform position between arms makes setting up a lot more comfortable for me, and getting a tight upper back before breaking the weight off the floor feels smoother. A uniform grip makes deadlifting feel a lot better to me, so I hope I can stick with the hook grip. Although unlike mixed grip I really have to squeeze in order to keep my thumbs from sliding out from underneath my fingers.


----------



## MikeH

Just so you guys know, I'm basically famous now. 



You can catch me yelling at Kade Weber from the power rack for a split second at 0:30. Or in the still for the video.

Line for the autographs start at the right.


----------



## UnquestionablePresence

So, today at school I racked what was supposed to be a set of 10 at 8 just because I felt way too out of breath to brace properly and go back into the hole safely. I feel pretty out of shape. I could blame the new belt or the fact that because of the way lifting at school works I had to squat after cleans (which wear out my lungs even quicker), but even when I squatted beltless and first thing in the workout I had a hell of a time breathing. I feel like failing a squat set just because my conditioning blows ass is really lame.

There is this path that follows a steep hill down into a ravine behind my house. I walked down it today and ran up it a few times. It really sucked. I haven't put any remotely serious effort into cardio since I was required to run in freshman PE. For a while I thought just doing high rep big compounds like squats would keep my lungs in good enough shape to handle lifting, and I thought that breathing during a heavy set of squats sucked more anyways. I'm pretty sure I was wrong about the former and I am definitely wrong about the latter after running hard for the first time in a while today. I'm going to see how doing this pans out. Hopefully I won't ever again rack a set of 10 just because I can't breathe.

Even if it doesn't quite work out, I might still keep conditioning in just as an appetite booster. I'm really hungry after that.


----------



## MikeH

Endurance conditioning is paramount. I've been swimming 2-3 times a week on top of my powerlifting regiment, and I'm still getting stronger. I've actually added 30 lbs to my deadlift since starting it. Start doing some running, and swimming if possible, as well as some mobility work. Check out Mobility WOD on YouTube. Tons of fantastic stretches and techniques to limber up. My squat is also deeper now because of it. We powerlifters don't all have to be fat and slow.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

Just from a purely muscular standpoint, things that require a lot of directional changing (basketball, soccer, football) really seem to help with squat/deadlift stability and efficiency, not to mention the endurance benefits.


----------



## MikeH

Jesus, this interview is awkward...but hilarious. The guys on Barbell Shrugged dick ride Louie Simmons so hard, so to have Chad Wesley Smith basically say "Well, just because it works for some people doesn't mean Louie is the greatest of all time" and just crush them spiritually makes me laugh.


----------



## jbealsmusic

MikeH said:


> Just so you guys know, I'm basically famous now.
> 
> 
> 
> You can catch me yelling at Kade Weber from the power rack for a split second at 0:30. Or in the still for the video.
> 
> Line for the autographs start at the right.


Hey cool. My wife trains at Dynamo with Jay, Kade, and crew (she competes in IPF). There is some serious strength in that gym! I trained there with her for a short while and saw some pretty insane lifting. A few 1900+lbs raw totals with BWs as low as 220lbs. INSANE!


----------



## Ibanezsam4

Have to rethink my lifting days now. 2 practice days and 1 game day a week (cardio, body weight training) plus lifting doesn't give me much room for recovery. 

If i can get three days of lifting in, each one should only focus on one of the big three main lifts, with bare minimum accessory work to strengthen weaker muscle groups like my shoulders and triceps and more core workouts. 

additionally my caloric intake needs to be 300-400 higher everyday. I manged to lose 5lbs in a week once practice really got going. excuse me while i eat a whole bag of corn chips.


----------



## UnquestionablePresence

My clean technique is getting to be pretty solid now. It's not perfect, but it is letting me progress into the lower 200s range and it isn't going to get me hurt any time soon. I think I might invest in some bumpers after I graduate so I can continue to train the clean, mostly just because I think it's fun. I can clean with iron plates, but lowering the bar without dropping it can be awkward sometimes and dropping iron from shoulder height is kind of scary. I plan on just getting 1 set of 45 bumpers and then using my smaller diameter iron 45s and the lighter iron plates with it so that when the bar drops the bumpers are the only plates that make contact with the ground. We normally do that at school instead of loading up with all bumpers and it works pretty well. Better than dropping nothing but iron plates.


----------



## Ulvhedin

Been lifting on and off my whole life, but I've decided to step it up now. 
Started regularly last september or so, and have started to notice small visual changes to the better, and my overall strength has also gone upwards 

Anyone got the capacity to dot out a workout program for a tiny ginger?


----------



## MikeH

Black Iron Beast - Cube Calculator

You're welcome.


----------



## MetalheadMC

MikeH said:


> Black Iron Beast - Cube Calculator
> 
> You're welcome.


 
Nice. The cube method is the s..t. Its my go to strength routine


----------



## MikeH

I ran two cycles of it and loved it. My current meet prep cycle is loosely based off of it, but I went with a bit more specificity and added more endurance work. Seems to be working quite well.


----------



## Guamskyy

Over the Easter Weekend we had family come over that we don't get to see often, only usually at holidays such as these, and when my uncle saw me he said "Hey whenever I see you, you get bigger and bigger *demonstrating bigger arms and traps*!" I laughed and accepted his compliment, I guess I must be doing something right haha.

Anyway, I maxed out on my back squat and bench last week. The bench was for fun because I haven't maxed out in a long time, and I went from 170 lbs to 190 lbs, so I'll take that no problem, while my back squat went up from 315 lbs to 335 lbs, which I'll also take no problem as well. Since I focus on Olympic-lifting, I do high bar back squats instead of the low bar or powerlifting squats I read that you guys do. I took a week off, and now it's off to a quick 4 week program, week off, and then 6 week program. Gotta love the snatch and clean and jerk!


----------



## Alex6534

I badly need to get back into the gym, had a hectic 4-6 weeks between work, uni and recording/getting new band members up to speed as well as running a business . My problem is that I'm a former fatty, use to be 20 stone at 16 and lost 8 of it by the time I was 19 (21 now sitting at 13 stone), with not that much muscle mass and not great cardio, fat man in an average guys body . Planning on getting on a good 3-day full body 5x5 or 3x8 workout, only have 35-40 minutes to complete it in which is a killer, but more intensity . 

One thing I'll recommend for folks that struggle with staying within a calorie deficit, psyllium husk. Pretty much all fibre and bought from health shops, 3-5g with a good amount of water and it expands in your stomach, giving the sensation of fullness. Handy if I've had a meal out with friends the evening before and want to cut back more calories today without having food on my mind the entire day.


----------



## Millul

Going to start the new program today...it will get close to killing me, but hopefully it'll also get me at my strongest ever come Raw Nationals in mid-June!


----------



## MikeH

Challenging everyone to do the 22 Rep Squat Challenge. It honors and brings awareness to the 22 veterans who commit suicide daily. 22 reps with your bodyweight on your back. I hit 165x22 this morning.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=967292429948127&pnref=story


----------



## UnderTheSign

Bill Starr died last week apparently


----------



## Dutchbooked

My lifts are down to box squatting, standing military press, kettlebell snatch and swing but my main "lift" is sled drags on grass. 

If you are not doing sled drags or pushing a prowler you are really missing out. It is like getting injections of pure energy when you recover.

I was very into the sport of powerlifting when I was younger but the older I've got the more ridiculous it seems. Who can smoke the most weed is not a sport and neither is who can take the most gear.


----------



## Guamskyy

Dutchbooked said:


> My lifts are down to box squatting, standing military press, kettlebell snatch and swing but my main "lift" is sled drags on grass.
> 
> If you are not doing sled drags or pushing a prowler you are really missing out. It is like getting injections of pure energy when you recover.
> 
> I was very into the sport of powerlifting when I was younger but the older I've got the more ridiculous it seems. Who can smoke the most weed is not a sport and neither is who can take the most gear.



Pushing prowlers gas me out so fast. That only means I got to do them more! I usually do 3-4 sets of 50m prowler sprints, and I'm usually dead by the 3rd set. It's pretty bad because I also don't have any additional weight on them


----------



## MikeH

Competed in my first powerlifting event yesterday. Weighed in at 160 lbs. the morning of. Finished the day going 6/9 with a 430 squat, 230 bench, and 445 deadlift for an 1,105 total. I gave it everything I had, and the only person I can blame for not having a better total is myself. I'm happy with it, and it was a great experience. I told myself I was done powerlifting until after basic training and tech school, but I think I might do one more meet before I leave. As long as I powerlift and work on endurance as well, I'll be totally fine.


----------



## Dutchbooked

guambomb832 said:


> Pushing prowlers gas me out so fast. That only means I got to do them more! I usually do 3-4 sets of 50m prowler sprints, and I'm usually dead by the 3rd set. It's pretty bad because I also don't have any additional weight on them



hah nice.
I did bear crawls pulling the sled today at a park and then stand up and go to failure. Feels like I got ran over by a truck right now.

Mike that sounds like a pretty good total at 160. I would think you should be able to get your bench up to 275 no problem.


----------



## Dutchbooked

MikeH said:


> Jesus, this interview is awkward...but hilarious. The guys on Barbell Shrugged dick ride Louie Simmons so hard, so to have Chad Wesley Smith basically say "Well, just because it works for some people doesn't mean Louie is the greatest of all time" and just crush them spiritually makes me laugh.



Simmons would say Yuri Verkhoshansky is the best strength coach of all time. You do have to appreciate that it wasn't that long ago there was Simmons Powerlifting USA articles and everything else was bodybuilding bro science nonsense as far as training knowledge goes. 

Bashing Simmons is just a way to try to make a name for yourself because there really isn't anything left to figure out since Verkhoshansky. Incredibly brilliant guy with the Soviet Olympic team at their disposal to figure out what works and what does not. Simmons adapted those ideas to powerlifting. Barbell Shrugged is fun for awhile but there is only so much to talk about.


----------



## MetalheadMC

MikeH said:


> Competed in my first powerlifting event yesterday. Weighed in at 160 lbs. the morning of. Finished the day going 6/9 with a 430 squat, 230 bench, and 445 deadlift for an 1,105 total. I gave it everything I had, and the only person I can blame for not having a better total is myself. I'm happy with it, and it was a great experience. I told myself I was done powerlifting until after basic training and tech school, but I think I might do one more meet before I leave. As long as I powerlift and work on endurance as well, I'll be totally fine.



Amazing job bro. You pushed yourself and hit some very good numbers.

Which branch are you going in? I'm in the Air Force currently


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

MikeH said:


> Competed in my first powerlifting event yesterday. Weighed in at 160 lbs. the morning of. Finished the day going 6/9 with a 430 squat, 230 bench, and 445 deadlift for an 1,105 total. I gave it everything I had, and the only person I can blame for not having a better total is myself. I'm happy with it, and it was a great experience. I told myself I was done powerlifting until after basic training and tech school, but I think I might do one more meet before I leave. As long as I powerlift and work on endurance as well, I'll be totally fine.



Awesome. Those numbers are pretty close to my current short-term goals, with the exception of the squat which is WAY higher. Really good result man


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## MikeH

Thanks, guys! Also, Metalhead, I'm in the Air Force as well. I leave for Lackland on June 22nd.


----------



## UnattendedGolfcart

Hey dudes, I have a question. I've been working out a lot the last few months, and I've noticed that the soreness I get after working out seems to be more delayed. When I was in my earlier stages, when I worked out a body part I would almost always get sore in that part the next day. Now, it seems like the next day I'm not sore, but two days after working out that body part I get sore in that part.

Is this good/bad/normal? I don't mind it at all really.


----------



## MikeH

Normal. The real leg day soreness sets in two days later for me.


----------



## MetalheadMC

UnattendedGolfcart said:


> Hey dudes, I have a question. I've been working out a lot the last few months, and I've noticed that the soreness I get after working out seems to be more delayed. When I was in my earlier stages, when I worked out a body part I would almost always get sore in that part the next day. Now, it seems like the next day I'm not sore, but two days after working out that body part I get sore in that part.
> 
> Is this good/bad/normal? I don't mind it at all really.


 
It's normal. That's how it works with me also. Always 2 days after. It's called DOMS, or Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness. It's just your body repairing itself. You just feel the effects a little later


----------



## UnattendedGolfcart

Alright cool, I figured it was a good thing since I have been working out more consistently.


----------



## Ibanezsam4

Just ordered a pair of those reebok shoes Gunshow was talking about a few pages back. I'm a cheap bastard so i looked for a sale on the cheaper canvas construction versions, so mine won't look nearly as classy as his. 

Figured I should get more specific foot gear if I'm going to keep chugging along in squats; lifting in five fingers was starting not work as I'm not as locked into the floor with the smooth soles. 

squats and deads have stalled because working them while playing a running sport is making for extremely sore days and affects my performance. figured when the season ends i'll make up for lost time


----------



## Dommak89

For some weeks now I try to go to the gym every other day. I noticed that training one body part only once a week doesn't trigger anything. However I want to know if i might improve my schedule.

My routine looks like this right now:

*Week 1*
_Monday: _Pull Day including leg workout for leg biceps (or however it's called in english)
_Wednesday:_ Push Day including quads and calves
_Friday: _Heavy Pull Day (basically dealifts and heavy rows)
_Sunday: _Heavy Push Day (basically squats and heavy bench press)

*Week 2
*_Tuesday: _Pull day (look above)
_Thursday:_ Push day (look above)
_Saturday:_ 300-Workout

repeat week 1 and 2

So what I'm trying to do is implement more powerlifting stuff and HIIT while still maintaining what I would call "pump" days. Also I don't want to overtrain my muscles but still hit each major muscle group at least twice a week.

Any thoughts/comments? Anyway to do this better? Any suggestions?


----------



## MikeH

Having two heavy days in a row that partially and fully target legs (deadlift and squats) might hinder your recovery time. I would alternate between one week doing heavy deadlifts and high-rep/lightweight squats, then speed deadlifts/heavy squats. I think you'll see more progress that way. Other than that, I don't really have any gripes.


----------



## Millul

Mike, great job at the meet!
Did you have anybody handling/wrapping you, or were you alone?

Try to understand what cost you those missed lifts (timing? hydration? hunger? bad calls? wrong warm-up?....?) and work on it, but it looks like you had a killer 1st meet - congrats!


----------



## MikeH

Thanks! I didn't have an official handler, but I had some buddies to wrap me. As far as missing the squat, I was nervous on my first attempt and cut the lift short, missing depth. My final attempt for bench, I flared too early and fell out of line and tried to over correct it. The final deadlift attempt was a lack of hips early on. I also didn't rehydrate enough. I know what I need to do to fix it, so I'm aiming for 9/9 and a 1,200 total in about 6.5 weeks.


----------



## UnattendedGolfcart

I'm working through a program right now that's mostly focused on high reps and 3-4 sets for everything. There's some supersets currently as well. I'm working out 5 days a week in this program and it works well I think. However, since it's very focused on endurance and doing supersets and high reps and whatnot, I'm not spending any time figuring out my max or near max lifts. Should I be concerned about this at this time? I'm on the third phase of the four-phase program. Should I try to integrate some max lifting in or should I just wait to spend time on that until I finish the entire workout program?

Btw, it's the Buff Dudes 12 Week Plan, Gym Edition.


----------



## MikeH

Depends on your goals. Are you building muscle size or building strength? Sounds to me like this program is more based on hypertrophy and gaining size as opposed to strength and power. If you want the size and strength, finish the program out and then move to a strength-based program like Stronglifts 5x5, 5/3/1, or The Cube Method. If you're more concerned with strength, go to one of those immediately.


----------



## UnattendedGolfcart

While I'd like to build both size and strength, I think that the point of the program I'm doing is about size. You're right in that it's focused on hypertrophy and burning you out, pushing you in endurance rather than in pure strength.

I might stick with this program and try a new program when I'm done. I'm living at my girlfriend's apartment in the summer in Queens and I'm not sure I'll really have money for a gym membership, and it sounds like there isn't a gym in the immediate area of her house besides her building's basement gym. So I'm probably going to find a plan that I can with bodyweight or low weight, high reps.


----------



## MikeH

Not sure if anyone here would have any insight, but I'm interested in competing in the Highland Games in the next few years. Anyone here have any experience? I've started following Matt Vincent and his Drifta Lifta series, as well as his brand, The HVIII. It seems like really cool stuff, and far more athletic than powerlifting.


----------



## Millul

Look up Steve Pulcinella as well...I have no experience with HG, but they do look to be a lot of fun


----------



## Ibanezsam4

UnattendedGolfcart said:


> While I'd like to build both size and strength, I think that the point of the program I'm doing is about size. You're right in that it's focused on hypertrophy and burning you out, pushing you in endurance rather than in pure strength.



this is a myth. having bigger muscle will in no way hurt your strength and power. In fact, for people with less than ideal leverages (i.e lanky people) building muscle mass to improve overall strength in not only important, but it can be the difference between hitting new PRs in a predictable manner at a competitive level. 

What you need to understand about powerlifting programs is that they are designed to have you "peak" (hit your 1rm) in a certain period of time prior to a meet. 

If your weights in your set go up, then congratulations your 1rm is also improving. You can run hypertrophy programming and linear progressions until the cows come home (and you should because endurance is an oft neglected component of weight training), and your strength will still increase.

The only thing you won't be able to figure out by doing hypertrophy training all the time is what your true 1rm is. that's about it. 

This video goes into more detail than i can: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeFXMX9Al8w


----------



## MikeH

I don't think anyone was saying that, but hypertrophic programs are obviously not geared towards maximal strength. You'll certainly still get stronger, but it's not the same increase as a 5x5 linear progression program with some heavy weight.


----------



## Ibanezsam4

MikeH said:


> I don't think anyone was saying that, but hypertrophic programs are obviously not geared towards maximal strength. You'll certainly still get stronger, but it's not the same increase as a 5x5 linear progression program with some heavy weight.



of course its the same; its just less obvious because you're not comparing it to a 1rm. adding 5lbs to a lift at the 10-12 rep range is still increasing strength by 5lbs. 

one of the key bits of the video i posted was "most people aren't patient enough to go through a full hypertrophy cycle and just want to see big weight gains" 

going through the same basic movements and adding weight to a volume program will move the scales the same way a six week peaking routine would, with just a few extra weeks. the difference is one will produce more useful muscle mass than the other.


----------



## UnattendedGolfcart

Thanks for that Ibanezsam4. Competitions or really focusing on my max isn't important to me, at least not right now. I have no real desire to do a competition.

I know that I'm getting stronger doing a hypertrophy program and I'm seeing some gains. Even if my gains don't look big (I'm not eating a .... ton of food because I'm a broke college student, but I am eating plenty and eating healthy) I know that I'm stronger simply because I've added weight to my exercises haha.

I'm going to stick with the hypertrophic "bodybuilder" workout style because I think it suits me more right now. Over the summer I won't have access to a gym with huge weights and racks so I'm going to stick with what I've been doing.


----------



## Ibanezsam4

^ Solid. diet is tough and figuring out how to do it cheaply and nutritionally is tough, but its possible (chicken, rice, and bean burritos for life!). 

again nothing wrong with chasing the 1rm fairy. it makes you feel like an ox and usually other people in the gym will get behind you. there are just multiple ways to get to the same perceived result.


----------



## MikeH

Ibanezsam4 said:


> of course its the same; its just less obvious because you're not comparing it to a 1rm. adding 5lbs to a lift at the 10-12 rep range is still increasing strength by 5lbs.
> 
> one of the key bits of the video i posted was "most people aren't patient enough to go through a full hypertrophy cycle and just want to see big weight gains"
> 
> going through the same basic movements and adding weight to a volume program will move the scales the same way a six week peaking routine would, with just a few extra weeks. the difference is one will produce more useful muscle mass than the other.



Guys like Jason Huh and Frank McGrath are not as strong as guys like Dan Green and Tee Cummins. Both of the former being 20-40 lbs bigger than both of the latter. Hypertrophic training is absolutely beneficial to strength. I do not disagree that you will get stronger. But is not as beneficial to maximal strength as a linear progression strength program. Period. You have guys who do crossover stuff, the most famous being Ronnie Coleman. But he was an outlier. IFBB pros are not going to come directly from the stage and break world records on the platform. That's why there are different types of training, and why elite level powerlifters aren't using a 3x10 chest/leg/back split.


----------



## UnattendedGolfcart

Ibanezsam4 said:


> ^ Solid. diet is tough and figuring out how to do it cheaply and nutritionally is tough, but its possible (chicken, rice, and bean burritos for life!).
> 
> again nothing wrong with chasing the 1rm fairy. it makes you feel like an ox and usually other people in the gym will get behind you. there are just multiple ways to get to the same perceived result.



That's one thing I'm excited about over the summer: my girlfriend's parents making us dinner that's more often than not pretty healthy, and I won't have a ton of money to spend on junk. Plus I started setting some running goals for myself too, so I've got a good mindset going into this summer.


----------



## MikeH

If anyone is interested, I'm starting to document my progress with recap videos on my YouTube. My first is from last night's bench press session where I hit a 5 lb PR. If you care, subscribe!


----------



## gunshow86de

MikeH said:


> Guys like Jason Huh and Frank McGrath are not as strong as guys like Dan Green and Tee Cummins. Both of the former being 20-40 lbs bigger than both of the latter. Hypertrophic training is absolutely beneficial to strength. I do not disagree that you will get stronger. But is not as beneficial to maximal strength as a linear progression strength program. Period. You have guys who do crossover stuff, the most famous being Ronnie Coleman. But he was an outlier. IFBB pros are not going to come directly from the stage and break world records on the platform. That's why there are different types of training, and why elite level powerlifters aren't using a 3x10 chest/leg/back split.



You could always just be Stan Efferding.


----------



## Ibanezsam4

MikeH said:


> Guys like Jason Huh and Frank McGrath are not as strong as guys like Dan Green and Tee Cummins. Both of the former being 20-40 lbs bigger than both of the latter. Hypertrophic training is absolutely beneficial to strength. I do not disagree that you will get stronger. But is not as beneficial to maximal strength as a linear progression strength program. Period. You have guys who do crossover stuff, the most famous being Ronnie Coleman. But he was an outlier. IFBB pros are not going to come directly from the stage and break world records on the platform. That's why there are different types of training, and why elite level powerlifters aren't using a 3x10 chest/leg/back split.



you're making a few naive and misinformed assumptions here, but they need to be clarified so these muscle myths stop being perpetuated. 

you're assuming there is no difference between a lifter who is juicing and one who is drug free. in natural athletes there is very little difference in training for hypertrophy than what you're defining as "strength" or powerlifting.. or frankly what for the past ten years in the gym, we just called "lifting heavy". 

so much of what read regarding lifting comes from a non-scientific source, usually from unverified first hand sources, such as trainers or athletes. while their advice is largely good when it comes to technique and such, when some start to makes claims on how muscle is formed i laugh because i think biochemists are a better source. regardless... 

... we have science that tells us the line between these allegedly separate training styles is quite gray. 

read through this Do the Acute Biochemical and Neuromuscular Responses Justify... : The Journal of Strength & Conditioning Research 

but i'll summarize. essentially, the different groups who trained heavy sets and hypertrophy sets experienced nearly identical biochemical responses (the .... that makes your muscle grow). the hypertrophy groups received the same responses for strength gains, and the strength group built lean muscle mass... however we have other studies that show reps make for greater hypertrophy.

so moving on to your point about the different athletes... training for maximal strength and training your maximal strength are two different concepts. firstly, training for maximal strength can be accomplished at different rep ranges and weights (yaaay science), and training your maximal strength just means lifting close to your maxes on different movements. 

But comparing two different lifting disciplines is such blatant example apples and oranges that it deserves to be called out. by that logic we should compare professional sprinters to NFL players when they run a 40 meter dash. 

of course someone who has trained their neuromuscular system to have proficiency at a movement will be better on stage.. however the IFBB guys would be able to make the crossover easily... cuz they train heavy too 

again back to the video i posted earlier... a lot of these guys train in higher rep ranges for a good portion of the year except when peaking for meets. 

don't drink the broscience koolaid man.. learn real science instead. period. <-- used for added rhetorical effect


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## MikeH

Well, maybe I was going off on the wrong tangent. I see the flaw in my side of the argument, as I was talking about strength period, but I believe what I meant to talk about is neural specialization for either powerlifting or bodybuilding, as your CNS will adapt differently to the style of workload you are putting on yourself. Guys who are used to 3x12 sets will not have the CNS capacity to go squat a maximal single without feeling shaky and disoriented afterwards, because that's not what they train for. So, I went off in the wrong direction by arguing a different point than I was trying to make. Apologies, sir.


----------



## Bevo

Hey guys, is "starting strength" still the way to go to put on some muscle?
As a cyclist I can't do much as I lost all my muscle from all the cardio, looking for a good program and this looks good.

If it is what is the recommended warm up?

Thanks


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## MikeH

I gained the most strength and mass while on Starting Strength. Great program. I always recommend 8-12 weeks of SS, then transition to Stronglifts 5x5, which is essentially the same program, but 5x5 instead of 3x5.


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## Bevo

Just an update and question..

Good progress, I increased my bench and squats from HA Ha Ha to LOL to good job for a skinny guy 
I changed to the Furious Five novice routine to get a bit more in, the SS was a bit to minimal.
I will keep at it with a goal of benching my weight by July 1.

Question is creatine, I don't eat much meat protien but am getting some in with eggs supplemented with whey for 110 grams at 150 pounds. It was recommended I take it to help make up for lost proteins I'm not getting, I have taken it for a week. Feel pretty bloated and don't really see a benifit, not like I am magically stronger.
Do I need it?

Thanks!


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## donzilla

Staying on top of your protein intake is way more important that creatine will ever be...you're bloated because creatine makes you retain water. "Do you need it"....it's not a need...but it won't hurt. Hope that helps.


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## Harry

Bevo, one week isn't anywhere near enough time to reach full saturation. Keep taking it, at 5 grams a day, for a couple more weeks and after that, you'll only need 15-20 grams per week to maintain saturation levels.
I think people have unrealistic expectations with creatine. It quite definitely works and is one of the most well studied ergogenic aids.
How you'll notice it working is over the long term. That extra rep or two per set or that bit of extra strength you'll be able to bust out will eventually add up over time.


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## Bevo

Thanks Harry

I understand it does benifit in the long run, my natrapath also agreed it would help supplement my light meat diet.
Hopefully the bloating will settle down, she recommended more water which I have done for the last few days.

Either way not giving up yet.

Thanks everyone!


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## Ibanezsam4

Harry said:


> Bevo, one week isn't anywhere near enough time to reach full saturation. Keep taking it, at 5 grams a day, for a couple more weeks and after that, you'll only need 15-20 grams per week to maintain saturation levels.
> I think people have unrealistic expectations with creatine. It quite definitely works and is one of the most well studied ergogenic aids.
> How you'll notice it working is over the long term. That extra rep or two per set or that bit of extra strength you'll be able to bust out will eventually add up over time.



it also helps with some amount of recovery which is nice


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## Millul

Tomorrow is squat test day...hope my nagging hamstring doesn't complain, not too much at least...!


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## MikeH

Squat deep, squat powerful. Stay tight from top to bottom.


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## Ibanezsam4

Just ordered a new batch of pea protein and finally found a flavor which masks the barnyard taste of pea concentrate! 

now i can actually pound protein shakes like a real bro! except i won't fart as much as those flat-brimmed hat neanderthals


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## Millul

MikeH said:


> Squat deep, squat powerful. Stay tight from top to bottom.



It didn'go bad, but not great either. Luckily, I only has to go for 95%, so 180 kg it was!

Way better the following day, when I nailed a 4rm pr at 160x4


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## MikeH

Nice job!

I'm 12 days out from my last meet for a while. Really looking forward to this deload week, because I'm going balls out. 1,200 total or bust. Looking for a 465 squat, 265 bench, and 470 deadlift.


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## Millul

Go get 'em!

I'm 16 days out myself, striving for 430 - 300 - 450.


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## Bevo

Crazy numbers! Great job guys!

130-110-100, don't be jealous LOL!
Up over 50% from 4 weeks ago, goal is a 200 bench before I turn 50 in October.


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## Millul

Thanks Bevo, but it will be a great job if I'll still be lifting when I'm 50! Go get that 200 bench!

Oh, and there are guys who can claim those numbers in kilos...that's a great job as well...!!!


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## UnattendedGolfcart

I need some advice on joining a gym for the summer, dudes. Specifically...


...Planet Fitness.


I need a gym for the next two months while I'm in Queens. The YMCA near where I'm living is about 20 minutes way from my apartment, it's in the complete opposite direction of my work (it'd be probably a 45 minute drive from my work), it's in a sketchy neighborhood, and there's crap parking.

The Planet Fitness is just a few blocks down from my work, so I can leave work and immediately go there and then go home, which would be ideal.

Has anyone been to Planet Fitness? I hear horrible things like that there's no squat racks and I've seen the "lunk alarms". This summer I mainly want to gain some size and lose my gut, so I'm not hugely concerned about max lifts, but I don't want to work out somewhere where everyone is overly sensitive and gets offended at anyone actually working hard.

Wat do?


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## jbealsmusic

UnattendedGolfcart said:


> ...but I don't want to work out somewhere where everyone is overly sensitive and gets offended at anyone actually working hard.


I wouldn't go to Planet Fitness then... People get kicked out for breathing heavy and sweating too much. If you take your fitness even remotely serious, you'll get booted.

Well... Maybe. I'm sure each location is slightly different, depending on the patrons and management.


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## UnattendedGolfcart

jbealsmusic said:


> I wouldn't go to Planet Fitness then... People get kicked out for breathing heavy and sweating too much. If you take your fitness even remotely serious, you'll get booted.
> 
> Well... Maybe. I'm sure each location is slightly different, depending on the patrons and management.



You also aren't allowed to wear tank tops.

It's okay though, I've been looking around and found many a number of gyms to go and check out that are just a few minutes driving distance around here.


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## Millul

You could always stop by, have a look and ask.

And...tank tops are gross anyway, if you're not over 220 and lean.


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## Ibanezsam4

Taking some time to reflect in the rugby off-season about what i can physically do better to make my game more aggressive (if i know i have physicality, mentally i will be more aggressive). 

the short answer: sprinting, speed, strength, and size. 

the long answer: more body weight explosive movements, such as squat jumps and burpees for conditioning and speed, might as well throw some speed ladders in there with sprints and prowler work. 

strength + size = equals a dedicated deadlift day so tons of volume (bar speed paramount) can be achieved. Bulgarian method for squatting, my daily minimum is 190lbs so working from that is not too terrible. also drop setting for more volume. 

continuing bench because why not? but adding more push ups, dips, pullups. 

i want to win collisions... plus dropping down to 185lbs sucks and i want to be over 190lbs again


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## UnattendedGolfcart

Millul said:


> You could always stop by, have a look and ask.
> 
> And...tank tops are gross anyway, if you're not over 220 and lean.



Hey now, they give scrawny 160lb me some confidence


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## MikeH

Millul said:


> You could always stop by, have a look and ask.
> 
> And...tank tops are gross anyway, if you're not over 220 and lean.


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## Ibanezsam4

^ is that an extra small?


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## TRENCHLORD

Ibanezsam4 said:


> ^ is that an extra small?



Extra small what?


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## Millul

Ibanezsam4 said:


> Taking some time to reflect in the rugby off-season about what i can physically do better to make my game more aggressive (if i know i have physicality, mentally i will be more aggressive).
> 
> the short answer: sprinting, speed, strength, and size.
> 
> the long answer: more body weight explosive movements, such as squat jumps and burpees for conditioning and speed, might as well throw some speed ladders in there with sprints and prowler work.
> 
> strength + size = equals a dedicated deadlift day so tons of volume (bar speed paramount) can be achieved. Bulgarian method for squatting, my daily minimum is 190lbs so working from that is not too terrible. also drop setting for more volume.
> 
> continuing bench because why not? but adding more push ups, dips, pullups.
> 
> i want to win collisions... plus dropping down to 185lbs sucks and i want to be over 190lbs again



I'll be blunt...if you squat 190, there's no point in training bulgarian style (not even if that 190 were kilos...!). If you're off-season, use it to build some wheels with squat volume, with some focus on bar speed as you say, while you'll be better off transitioning to BW oriented training in-season.

Bench and OHP, yes...and lots of it.

How long the off-season is? How old are you? If you're in your late teens/early 20's, and have 3 months, a solid run to 200lbs BW should be in the cards.


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## Millul

MikeH said:


>



Sorry Mike...great shape, but it's still a no-go (pet peeve of mine  )


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## MikeH

Ibanezsam4 said:


> ^ is that an extra small?



It's a medium.


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## MikeH

Millul said:


> Sorry Mike...great shape, but it's still a no-go (pet peeve of mine  )



I don't have a more recent photo in a tank top (with no beard and more hair), but how do you feel about cut-offs?


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## Millul

The same as I do about tank tops ahahahaha

Hair...now that's something I am envious of! Not much left on this head of mine...


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## Millul

Mike, are you ready for the meet? I wish you many PRs!

Also, guys, keep an eye on the IPF raw worlds, currently being held in Finland: some insane numbers are being thrown around...!


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## MikeH

I think so! Current weight is now 166.4 at night, which gives me hope of morning weight being under 166. Haven't done much at all this week, so my body is certainly getting rest. Gonna lay off carbs for the most part tomorrow, which is going to suck, but it'll be worth it. Ready to lay it down.


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## MikeH

Woke up at 163.5 today. Safe to say that I'm going to hold back on food today, weigh in tomorrow morning, and then eat a bunch of crap to load up my carbs.


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## Millul

So?


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## MikeH

Sorry, guys. I've been preparing for basic. Meet didn't go as planned, but I still managed a 20 lb total PR. Finished with a 435 squat, 245 bench, and 445 deadlift. Also attempted a 450 squat and cut it high, but the weight was there. Just got into my own head and got scared. Looking to compete early next year, after I'm settled at my duty station and can hold around 180 lbs body weight. Probably won't compete until I have a 500 deadlift.


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## Millul

Good job there Mike, a 20lb PR in such a short time from your last meet is nothing to sneeze at!


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## Ibanezsam4

Millul said:


> I'll be blunt...if you squat 190, there's no point in training bulgarian style (not even if that 190 were kilos...!). If you're off-season, use it to build some wheels with squat volume, with some focus on bar speed as you say, while you'll be better off transitioning to BW oriented training in-season.
> 
> Bench and OHP, yes...and lots of it.
> 
> How long the off-season is? How old are you? If you're in your late teens/early 20's, and have 3 months, a solid run to 200lbs BW should be in the cards.



ugh, just getting to this now... 

I squat 340 at last 1rm check, but i use volume training more than low reps regardless of what time of year it is so my current max is unknown. as of now i had my dad (former track athlete) check my sprinting form, and my fiancee (multiple sports) is doing footwork drills with me now so i have some finesse... emphasis on some lol

but im in my mid-20s, so gains are still there but my metabolism is slowing down noticeably. 

and lastly, off-season end i think the last week of August... so there's time but i'm lighting a fire under my ass to perform at a much higher level, cuz better play equals more field time (no B/secondary squad to speak of)


----------



## GalacticDeath

I'm trying to get back into lifting but it's difficult since my new job screwed up my sleeping and lifting schedule.
Beginning of the year I was benching 225×9 and now I'm back to 225×4. It really sucks


----------



## UnattendedGolfcart

I've been keeping up the 4-5 day workout plan and I'm feeling some improvements, whether on weight, reps, or form. I've been working out my chest 2 times a week because I feel rather underdeveloped there. I last did chest on Monday, pretty sure my last bench set was 135 or 145x5. Not a lot at all but I'm crap at benching.

My highest most recent deadlift set was 260x4. I'm happy with that, my back is the only body part I feel really confident about 

I've been trying to do high rep squats, I was squatting in the 205-225 area last week. Haven't done legs yet this week but I've got a 4 hour drive home today and tomorrow the gym is closed so I may not be able to get it in.

Current goals for myself are: Bench 175, deadlift 300, squat 250. When I'm home for the weekend I'm gonna go restock on protein, that'll help me out a lot since I've been without any protein shakes lately.


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

Goddamn, long time no post. Mike, you look insane, I've never seen anyone transform as fast as you. I know obviously it's super possible with dedication for anyone but not many people have that level.

Fasting for Ramadan and cutting at the same time. ....'s grim but gotta do what you gotta do. Gone down from 94kg to 91 so far (I got super fat), didn't quite meet my 450kg total before the cut but got to 425 (90 B/145 SQ/190 DL) so I'm doing alright. Started doing some direct arm work for the first time and it's paying off, I look and feel a little better already and my noodle arms are finally beginning to look vaguely proportional to my barrel chest . Planning to cut until October-ish, I'm glad I got wanting to be huge out of my system, and being bearmode was fun but at 5'7 I realised I'd much rather just be ripped and have good relative strength at about 74kg.

some pictures of my fat ass from a few weeks ago pre-cut and pre-arms training (no pump, as you can no doubt tell):


----------



## Ibanezsam4

can i share how awful it is to lift and have crohns disease? had a mini flare-up over the past week and a half and of course my weight dropped again and now im back to where i was in may 

starting to think i might just concentrate on strength gains and putting weight on at a slower pace.. seems like anytime i concentrate on bulking i flare up. .... sucks


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

Ibanezsam4 said:


> can i share how awful it is to lift and have crohns disease? had a mini flare-up over the past week and a half and of course my weight dropped again and now im back to where i was in may
> 
> starting to think i might just concentrate on strength gains and putting weight on at a slower pace.. seems like anytime i concentrate on bulking i flare up. .... sucks



jeez man that sucks, my flatmate last year had crohns and she had problems, must be rough.

I think strength is always a good yardstick to aim for. The bar never lies


----------



## UnquestionablePresence

Some hip flexor/quad pain kept me out of squatting for a while. Tried to ease back into it in early June, but it seemed to be too early. Stayed out of it for a while, eased back in with some front squats, and recently put the bar on my back on for a second attempt at returning to back squats and had some success. Put up 275x6 (All time squat PR is a 370 single set shortly before the problems arrived). Not bad after so much time off of the movement. I squat with a much slower descent than I used to, seems to help ward off the pain.

Aside from that, I've beat my best deadlift set of 355x6 and went beyond, lifting 370 for a pretty speedy set of 6 last Wednesday. Wouldn't be surprised if I make it to at least 385x6 soon. Ever since I matched my old PR of 355x6 I've been adding 5 pounds each week without difficulty increasing very much. I am also closing in on matching my bench touch and go best of 155x6 with paused reps. 

I think I mentioned getting into lifting with a belt the last couple times I posted, but I bailed on it. I prefer to lift beltless. I gave it a shot, at least. I also ditched my knee sleeves and I'm starting to enjoy squatting in chuck taylors again. I'm glad I at least got some use out of those two unlike the belt that I only used for a few weeks. All of these decisions are out of preference. I don't compete, so I pick whatever feels most comfortable and not what helps me lift the most weight. 

I went into this summer planning on doing volume training, and now I'm doing the exact opposite by going with around the least amount of volume I can progress with . I've almost always done one top set of deadlifts once a week, but now I'm cutting more and more bench and squat volume to the point where I am likely to push forward with one top set twice a week on each (top set meaning the heaviest set. I still do a few warm up sets). I'm especially interested to see how my bench responds. My front squats were responding well to the low volume, but I'll have to see how this works out now that the bar is on my back again. Accessory lifts are limited to pullups, dips, some gripper work (I gave it a shot and I'm hooked for the time being, very speedy progress. Can't hurt to work on grip strength when it comes so easily), and some farmer's walks (Not the biggest fan of these anymore, and they would be out if my dad wasn't into them. Gotta fit in that father/son time when I can). From here, I can flesh out my routine and add volume and additional accessory work as needed one variable at a time to get a decently accurate measurement of how it effects my lifts, if at all, instead of throwing in tons of new variables at once and having trouble pinning down what is beneficial and what isn't.

It's too soon to tell for bench if the lower volume approach is working as I recently switched to pause bench to see if it will help bust this ridiculous plateau I have (Closest thing I have to a PR on that lift this summer was a 155x6 that felt easier than a 155x6 I have done in the past, and I also think I may have done 160x5 besting a 160x4 I did back in school but I'm not quite sure). The plan with bench is to focus mostly on sub-max weights, eventually setting a 5 pound PR and then backing off a bit before working back up again to another 5 pound PR.


----------



## Millul

The plan looks good man...not completely sold on mid-to-low-volume benching, but give it an honest shot and see how it goes!
Strange that the bench lags so much behind the other lifts, though...!


----------



## UnquestionablePresence

Millul said:


> The plan looks good man...not completely sold on mid-to-low-volume benching, but give it an honest shot and see how it goes!
> Strange that the bench lags so much behind the other lifts, though...!



It's always been behind my other lifts. Could have something to do with my build/leverages. I don't know. I do what I can to work with it. Prior to June I was doing a lot more volume as a part of lifting at school, but I think there was a lot of junk thrown in there that may have pushed me over the sweet spot. I've never given lower volume benching a shot, so that's why I'm experimenting with it now. I'd rather waste time trying something new than waste time doing the same thing I was doing before and hoping that it magically starts working. If I do add more bench volume I'll probably try having a heavier, lower rep set, followed by one or more lighter, higher rep sets considering I've taken the same weight, same rep range, but more sets approach to volume since I've started lifting and my bench seemed to not really respond to it. 

Hopefully it picks up sometime soon; otherwise, I might end up a freak with a sub 200 bench and a 500 deadlift by the end of the year (The disparity might be even larger if I was proficient with a belt) .


----------



## Ibanezsam4

Deadlift, and squat today... decided pyramid prowler sprints were a good idea... 

probably one of my worst ideas... dat pump tho


----------



## Maniacal

Just setup my own PT gym. I am now 100% self employed - teaching instruments and training people at home.


----------



## Ibanezsam4

anyone ever had an experience with gym trainers giving you the fuzzy eyeball or treating you rudely? 

i've been at a healthclub style place for the past year because of a discount i get with work, it has a decent weight room but only one squat rack 

needless to say when a trainer needs a squat rack for a client i go out of my way to cut my sets short and then go back later to get my volume (i also share if other people need to use the rack). 

but for whatever reason, this one guy constantly gives me the "when will this douche be done?" face whenever i show up and always asks when my sets will be over.

this is starting to come to a head with me as none of the other trainers act this way.

last night i went to do 3 prowler sets after asking permission from another trainer to use it (gym policy says the sled is for clients, but they hardly use it). The best part is, the head trainer who ordered the damn thing is right there when i asked. 

of course rude trainer sees me and starts bugging the other guy "is this ok? are you sure about that?" after stripping the sled down i even disinfected it and put it away for the guy.. still got attitude for it!

it's pretty aggravating.. i really can't wait to move soon and find a new gym centered around lifting... maybe this won't be a reoccurring theme.


----------



## Millul

I see no issues with him asking you how many sets you've left...but the "move on" face is downright unprofessional.

I'd just ask him the reason for this confrontational behaviour...if nothing good comes out of it, have a talk with the head trainer.


----------



## gunshow86de

@5:55 Wake up Mike!


----------



## Millul

It looks like I'll be going to the IPF World Championships this November in Hamm, Luxembourg, as a handler/helper to my good friend and training mate Massimiliano Buccioni, who'll compete in the -83 class.

Looking forward to this experience...it will be great to be able to see all the monsters from up close, and I hope Max will put up a good show and make PR's!


----------



## Ibanezsam4

Millul said:


> It looks like I'll be going to the IPF World Championships this November in Hamm, Luxembourg, as a handler/helper to my good friend and training mate Massimiliano Buccioni, who'll compete in the -83 class.
> 
> Looking forward to this experience...it will be great to be able to see all the monsters from up close, and I hope Max will put up a good show and make PR's!



that's pretty cool. i can only imagine what the atmosphere is like at that level


----------



## ctgblue

Ibanezsam4 said:


> anyone ever had an experience with gym trainers giving you the fuzzy eyeball or treating you rudely? .



It's too bad you're having this problem.

I have held personal training and group training certs, but just don't need the hassle. So I've let them lapse.

Normally, I'm moving 2-3 x the weight their clients are moving, so they don't say anything.

BRB for my next set of ~600lb~ shrugs while your guy curls his 15's.... 

I would, but I'm this way, go right up to him, _when he's not with someone_, and ask him if he has some problem with me and what it is.
You don't have to be confrontational, just questioning.
Because YOU PAY to be there and he's getting paid to be there.
You have as much right to any 'gym equipment' as anyone else.

Now, before you do this, ask yourself:
Do you grunt a lot
Do you stink, fart, eat tuna out of a can in the weight area (we'd just kill you, not be rude)
Do you sweat stuff up and leave it (example seems to say no)
Do you leave your plates on the bar
IE.. are you a gym idiot...


----------



## Ibanezsam4

ctgblue said:


> Now, before you do this, ask yourself:
> Do you grunt a lot
> Do you stink, fart, eat tuna out of a can in the weight area (we'd just kill you, not be rude)
> Do you sweat stuff up and leave it (example seems to say no)
> Do you leave your plates on the bar
> IE.. are you a gym idiot...



This is mainly why i was confused. other than sweating alot because because the AC is busted or the heat turned up too much, i don't do any of this. 

i honestly wish at this point i did a Maori war dance in front of the squat rack before i started because then it would be a legitimate gripe.

i've decided that if i am doing squats i just go a little after 6pm when the gym is dead. it's only 1 day a week i have to deal with this. 

anyhow, found an interesting article today about vegan bodybuilders getting more notoriety

Vegan bodybuilders reveal how they got ripped by eating just vegetables | Daily Mail Online 

what do y'all think?


----------



## UnderTheSign

Im very interested in/by the vegan and vegetarian lifting stuff. Since Ill probably go vegetarian when me and the gf move in together I've been reading up on it a bunch and it seems doable. 

That said a lot of the really big guys built most of their physique on meat and other stuff. They mostly turn vegetarian or vegan later on in their career.


----------



## Ibanezsam4

UnderTheSign said:


> Im very interested in/by the vegan and vegetarian lifting stuff. Since Ill probably go vegetarian when me and the gf move in together I've been reading up on it a bunch and it seems doable.
> 
> That said a lot of the really big guys built most of their physique on meat and other stuff. They mostly turn vegetarian or vegan later on in their career.



i have a mixed diet, im trying to get waaay more veggies in my system while still eating meat. if anything switching to vegan protein powder is a great start. pound for pound its cheaper, just as effective and won't give you gas


----------



## Bevo

Update for me that helps the vegan topic above.

Pretty much all my life I have been a veggie that only ate cheese, no meats of any kind.

After a few recovery issues from cycling and a general lack of strength I started to eat a bit of meats. It took two months to get over the various meat hangovers, same as alcohol but from meat. I still can't eat red meat or pork without serious issues.

I also started lifting weights and went from 145 to 160 and can't believe how strong I am. My recovery for cycling is much faster and my power is 25% better across the board. My bench went from a skinny cyclist 45 lb for 5 rally hard reps to 140 for 5 no spotter. 200 is my goal for early next year before I turn 50... Yeah I'm old!

Meat wise I still don't like it, not a fan of the taste and don't crave it at all. Once I get my 200 bench I am going to back off and just do eggs and a bit of chicken but stay with whey protein. For next summer I will need to lean out for bike season but still want to lift, less heavy and more maintenance I think.

Another note on Creatine, I used it for 4 months and it does work as advertised BUT, if your an endurance athlete it does not. The benifit it gives you in strength slows down the muscle speed and increases the lactic acid production, what an unbelievable burn! The coach got me off it and in a week or so the lactic issue went away, I tried it again to be sure and the burn was back in 4 days of loading.

Cheers!


----------



## Millul

Bevo, for some sound advice on combining endurance sports with weight training, make sure to check out Alex Viada's work...he's also recently published a book on the subject, "The hybrid athlete"


----------



## gunshow86de

Another world record for Malanichev 1,036 lbs (470 kg), made it look like an opener.


----------



## JeffFromMtl

Well, alright. I'm back at it. After a year of setback after setback. Hernias, sickness, brutal schedules, lack of sleep. I made the commitment this week to being in the gym at least 5 days a week again and I'm planning to be back where I was at this time last year by November - 172 lbs. That's a 12-pound gain, but seeing how I was able to hit that goal in 2 months last year, I don't see why I couldn't do it again. But this time, I'm going to try to do it without gainer and I haven't had surgery on my hernia, so I'll have to avoid squats and deadlifts. Leg presses galore, I guess. With supplemental core work.


----------



## Greatoliver

gunshow86de said:


> Another world record for Malanichev 1,036 lbs (470 kg), made it look like an opener.




I saw this earlier, it's insane.


----------



## Millul

When Ed Coan is spotting you, you better deliver something great...and Malan did just that!


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## Ibanezsam4

another big performance that day. that deadlift speed


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## Millul

Indeed a great deadlift!

I'd love it if Konstantin Podzeev came out of the woodshed and took this WR total...


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## Ibanezsam4

welp... have to be completely honest with myself. 

the years of muscle imbalances have finally caught up with me. one leg weaker than the other has officially froze my squat progress, i'm now noticing a huge issue with ankle mobility and finally the hips... are too damn tight and won't flex.

time to pay the piper and get this sh!t straightened out before i hurt myself.

any tips on strengthening a single leg? i fractured my ankle 4-5 years ago and i would say my left leg is about 15% weaker than my right.


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## UnderTheSign

Millul said:


> When Ed Coan is spotting you, you better deliver something great...and Malan did just that!


It's funny because while Malanichev barely speaks English, he absolutely worships Ed Coan. I remember stories of him finally meeting him in the Animal cage at the Arnold a year or two ago, guy was absolutely star struck  could almost call it cute. I'd be squatting extra with my major idol spotting me too!


----------



## Millul

Ibanezsam4 said:


> welp... have to be completely honest with myself.
> 
> the years of muscle imbalances have finally caught up with me. one leg weaker than the other has officially froze my squat progress, i'm now noticing a huge issue with ankle mobility and finally the hips... are too damn tight and won't flex.
> 
> time to pay the piper and get this sh!t straightened out before i hurt myself.
> 
> any tips on strengthening a single leg? i fractured my ankle 4-5 years ago and i would say my left leg is about 15% weaker than my right.



I'd say you could start out with adding single leg presses to your routine (only the weaker leg) and maybe also single leg extensions/leg curls, slowly increasing the poundages...see where that takes you in, say, 6-8 weeks and reassess from there.


----------



## Millul

https://www.facebook.com/marco.millul/videos/918684048190751/?pnref=story

Pause squat PR from tonight' session...180 kg, a 10 kg increase over the last time I did these 5 weeks ago (that was a rather conservative attempt, though, while this one is pretty much all out).

Striving to hit 200 kg - without the pause - within year's end...


----------



## Guamskyy

Well once I got over my overuse injury in my knees, after getting back into nearly normal training volume my right wrist isn't having any of it...

It doesn't help at all with what I do (olympic weightlifting) I'm nearly always working overhead. I guess I can get stronger on DL, clean/snatch pulls, and squats.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

Ibanezsam4 said:


> any tips on strengthening a single leg? i fractured my ankle 4-5 years ago and i would say my left leg is about 15% weaker than my right.




I like to stand inside the rack with the safety bars set at about normal squat height (where the bar would be almost touching them at the bottom of the lift).
Simply grab each side's safety bar for balance, control, and assistance, then do one-legged body-weight squats. 

I wouldn't worry about getting too low, and also don't worry about the working leg's knee going out in front a bit more than usual or your upper-body leaning forward for balance.

The off-leg just hangs down and back basically with it's foot just off the ground (obviously). 

At the bottom you should look about like a triple-jumper who just landed after the second phase and is getting ready to explode into the final jump, except that a jumper wouldn't be all the way down on the heel like a one-legged body-weight squatter should be.

Of course you can do them while holding onto anything with one or both hands, I just found it more handy and effective to use the safety bars inside the cage for it.
A pair of chairs or saw-horses also work great and allow you however much or little arm-assistance needed to stay tight and controlled.


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## Ibanezsam4

^ i hate doing one leg squats... i guess that means they're effective


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## UnquestionablePresence

A little idea for any other home gym owner out there. You can approximate a lot of cable machine movements with a band fastened to your rack. You could buy all sorts of different bands with varying tension and still end up spending way less than you would on a cable machine. Just make sure to thread some plates through the safeties/lay them on the bottom of the rack/whatever if your rack is light and not bolted to the ground like mine is once you start playing with tension in the above 70-ish lbs range (I took my rack with me when I tested out speed deadlifts and I didn't think to weigh my rack down a little ).

I've been messing around with how to do a few light accessory movements, and while I've almost always had a mini band that I used back in the day to do assisted pull ups now I hadn't taken notice of their full potential until I bought a heavier pair and got a little curious. I bought these to experiment with speed deadlifts, but I'm finding them more useful for accessory work even though using them for that purpose seemed kind of strange at first. You can double/triple/etc. loop a band around whatever to adjust tension, and even if that doesn't get the job done they sell bands all the way up to the realm of 200 lbs of tension. Wouldn't be surprised if you end up saving a lot of money investing in some bands instead of dumbbells, cable machines, etc. for the little exercises. You might argue it's not quite the same, but when you don't have all the expendable income in the world to build your home gym you have to make compromises. Just an idea for those also short on cash.


----------



## gunshow86de

^

You can also get one of these =>

Spud Inc Econo Tricep and Lat Pulley | Rogue Fitness


----------



## UnquestionablePresence

I've bought a few Spud Inc. products. Definitely big money savers, but I didn't get much use out of what I bought, lol. At least I wasted less money than I would have, and if I meet somebody that likes to do farmer's walks and kettlebell swings I've got something for them. Sometimes I loop the kettlestrap in on itself and use it as a handle like when I gave one arm barbell rows a shot and I tried to mimic the meadows row handle with what I already had. Towels are cool DIY handles for stuff, too.

Honestly, thus far I haven't used anything very consistently aside from the barbell, but I get curious and end up buying different little toys to play around with every now and then or I try out something I haven't done before. Experimentation isn't really all that bad for me because I'm in a weird place right now where I don't really desire to lift x amount of weight or weigh x pounds or look like I might possibly lift anymore, yet still I find myself nearly every day thinking "Maybe I'll just go downstairs and squat/deadlift a plate or two for a few reps just for fun." For fun. That's pretty much why I lift now, and yet I still consistently squat and deadlift. How the hell is that fun?


----------



## TRENCHLORD

Cool recent interview with the Bigger, Faster, Stronger guys.
I had no idea of all the issues Chris has had since the original documentary, nor was I aware of their oldest brother's death shortly after the movie.


----------



## UnquestionablePresence

Honestly, now that I think about it. Last time I had good progress was when I was in school and did what someone else told me to do. Might be time to hop onto something proven and stick to it strictly.


----------



## Millul

"Strictly" is the key word there - you can design your own program, but if you constantly tweak it, change it, f%ck with it, it won't work.
Consistency is the biggest factor in progess in the iron game, IMO.


----------



## UnquestionablePresence

Millul said:


> "Strictly" is the key word there - you can design your own program, but if you constantly tweak it, change it, f%ck with it, it won't work.
> Consistency is the biggest factor in progess in the iron game, IMO.



Yup. On the bright side I've only been set back a few months. There are some really strong dudes out there who talk about how they spent as much as an entire decade without squatting more than "beginner" weight or being weak with or not doing *insert lift that everyone does here*.

I'd really like to get my squat back up to where it was before I irritated my hip flexor, so I think that's the goal for now. Although if I did that technically it would be a PR of sorts and not just getting back to where I was. I'm not as heavy as I was when I made that lift.

EDIT: The summer wasn't a complete waste. I know the fruitier volume and frequency ideas don't really sit too well with me now. Right now I'm just thinking of running something like

1. Main lift (Leaning towards doing one top set of lower body work and doing a few straight sets for my bench)
-Thinking about tossing in some pull ups here after pressing to match every pressing rep I just did.-
2. Similar "big" assistance lift (Stuff like close grip bench or front squats or sumo deadlifts)
3. Smaller accessories (Basically looks like it's going to end up being pull up and dip time on bench day, Ab/lower back work time on lower body days, and I'll probably stick rear delt work, if nothing else, here if I decide to do OHP)

All for basic set/rep schemes that may be cycled every once in a while. Volume probably isn't going to get any crazier than 30 total reps per lift on everything except stuff that falls under the "smaller accessory" category, at least until it becomes a reasonable idea (probably a looong while from now).

This is actually more "complex" in some ways that anything I've ever run before. I've never given each compound it's own day, and I haven't really messed with stuff like doing CGBP or doing front squats along with regular squats (I've only really used them while working through my hip flexor problems as a temporary replacement). The few experiments I have made in programming tend to keep the exercise selection very minimal, but get all cute with the frequency or rest times or set/rep schemes etc. I think I know now why so many programs are pretty standard when it comes to those details after my little experiment. Some people can cope with that stuff, but I didn't get anything out of it.

Anyways, I honestly have no idea how I could deviate from this program because it really covers everything I need right now as far as I'm concerned, but I'll probably find a way if I don't watch myself XD. This is pretty much what I would end up doing if I went out and tried to follow something like 5/3/1 or whatever other program you can find. Pretty common concepts in here.

Above all else I just need to not freak out when things don't go as expected. That's what fueled all the experimentation. I was being impatient and trying to get things rolling again too soon.


----------



## Ibanezsam4

alright, time for another weightlifting goals/programming post. 

a couple months back i outlined what i wanted to do to become stronger for rugby. the plan was half successful; i made some great upper body gains, but lower squat volume (standard 5/3/1.. never again) coupled with getting super sick during the month of June, killed my lower body strength and left me feeling really half-cocked going into the season. 

i also was not happy with the position i was playing. after twisting my ankle a few weeks back i got to think about it a little and realized i really missed my time in the gym. so i've decided the remainder of the season will be put on the back burner to take time to heal and then to get stronger. 

so the plan is: do a cycle of the Cube. i made a lot of improvement on lacking lifts with 5/3/1 but it has its flaws. i know there are a million variants of 5/3/1 but experiencing another method should be fun. if anything it will shock me back into the gym.

After the first 10 week cycle, switch to the GZCL method. Really just choosing this because it covers the bases and honestly looks like a lot of fun as well. it goes in 4 week cycles so it will be easy to manage if i don't like it. my focus is making exercising as enjoyable as possible. 

i will also be doing a steady bulk between now and april, with the goal of being over 200lbs (185 currently). 

the next 6 months will be titled "Operation Look Like a Beast in Short-Shorts"

what do you guys think? any suggestions on how to get big(ger) while still maintaining cardio and such?


----------



## UnquestionablePresence

Ibanezsam4 said:


> alright, time for another weightlifting goals/programming post.
> 
> a couple months back i outlined what i wanted to do to become stronger for rugby. the plan was half successful; i made some great upper body gains, but lower squat volume (standard 5/3/1.. never again) coupled with getting super sick during the month of June, killed my lower body strength and left me feeling really half-cocked going into the season.
> 
> i also was not happy with the position i was playing. after twisting my ankle a few weeks back i got to think about it a little and realized i really missed my time in the gym. so i've decided the remainder of the season will be put on the back burner to take time to heal and then to get stronger.
> 
> so the plan is: do a cycle of the Cube. i made a lot of improvement on lacking lifts with 5/3/1 but it has its flaws. i know there are a million variants of 5/3/1 but experiencing another method should be fun. if anything it will shock me back into the gym.
> 
> After the first 10 week cycle, switch to the GZCL method. Really just choosing this because it covers the bases and honestly looks like a lot of fun as well. it goes in 4 week cycles so it will be easy to manage if i don't like it. my focus is making exercising as enjoyable as possible.
> 
> i will also be doing a steady bulk between now and april, with the goal of being over 200lbs (185 currently).
> 
> the next 6 months will be titled "Operation Look Like a Beast in Short-Shorts"
> 
> what do you guys think? any suggestions on how to get big(ger) while still maintaining cardio and such?



Are you still making good upper body gains? I'd keep a basic 5/3/1 approach for upper body if you're still improving and only make tweaks to lower body programming (I'd ....ing kill to be making "great" bench gains right now).

The squat volume is low in 5/3/1 because Jim intends for you to be running hills and pushing prowlers etc. on top of the typical weight room stuff. There's always the BBB template, which is just a 5x10 of the main lift at a lighter weight (Jim recommends starting with as little as 50% of the training max IIRC) or a similar lift after the main lift. You could go with that or something similar (3x10 if 5x10 is too much for you).

I've been making a bunch of tweaks recently, but now I'm just back to a really simple template of squatting, benching, deadlifting, chinning, and maybe doing some dips. You're about to go on a bulk you say? I recently started getting back into my pre-summer diet habits (recently as in this weekend) and I'm already squatting more. Haven't gained any weight quite yet (I was 152 this morning), but I'm breezing through squats now as I work my way back into the 300+ for reps territory I was at prior to a hip flexor injury. I was trying to get by on a lighter diet because I was a bit burned out from eating so much, but it seems that it just wasn't cutting it. If you've been cutting recently I'd wait to judge what works and what doesn't work for you until you get your bulking diet underway. From my experience even if you don't gain much weight, the large amount of calories and nutrients going down the hatch from a bulking diet helps tremendously.

I wouldn't advise complete program overhauls so often. A few tweaks here and there are cool, though. You can actually begin to develop "your own" program just by tweaking 5/3/1 since it worked so well for your upper body. I know everyone on the internet talks a lot of .... about messing with programs, and there are reasons for that; however, this is more directed at the complete newbie who turns Starting Strength into a bodypart split before he has even tried it rather than someone who has made gains before and has a basic understanding of training trying to tweak a program to suit their needs a little better.

If you need more volume for your legs, add it. Keep everything else that works the same, though. If you're getting bored, try making as few tweaks as possible to keep things interesting. Maybe throw in some dumb .... that you probably don't even need at the end of your workouts. Just go nuts (Unless if "go nuts" means do 10x10 on 5 exercises to you, that's probably a little excessive) If you're eating enough to bulk to 200 pounds I doubt some curls and stuff are going to screw with your recovery so much that it derails your progress.

Just my two cents. I'd wait for the other, more experienced dudes that post in here to weigh in as well.

EDIT: Forgot about the cardio part. 5/3/1 actually covers this, too. You're not going to read about it if you just look up the template posted on a random site, but if you read Jim's own articles or maybe even buy his books he is really focused on being "strong and in shape" as Paul Carter, who has a similar philosophy, likes to put it. Jim recommends getting in some "conditioning" several times a week. Whether that be a prowler workout or running some hills or other short, intense conditioning workouts. Sled drags are cool. I've seen people recommend farmer's carries, but I feel like grip and upper back strength gives out before you can really begin to tax your lungs. Sandbag carries would be a good option. I don't do them myself, but I've had to bear hug and haul some heavy stuff recently outside of training and it seemed like it would be a very effective way to go. Jim has some free articles hovering around where he discusses this, and he actually has a whole sub-forum on T-Nation (Yes, I know. But, where else can you get direct feedback from Jim other than his own, paid forum?) where he posts and helps out folks running his program.

If I still went to an MMA/BJJ gym I could probably get some good ideas from the fighters that train there, but you can probably use google to find out what some good fighters do. That stuff was absolute conditioning hell when I did it (More exhausted from 3 minutes of rolling than from any length of any other activity I had ever done in my life prior to then), and I'd imagine the training they do to hold up in competition is pretty effective. Although their sport takes priority over progress in the gym.

All in all, I'd say look for some of Jim Wendler's conditioning ideas. They probably work pretty well with lifting.


----------



## Millul

Lots of good advice from Unquestionable Presence.

The only thing I'd say, is: add volume back SLOWLY if you're still playing rugby, in order to be able to assess the effect on your running/playing performance.
For slowly, I mean something like 1 set every 2 weeks.
Also, if you want bigger wheels, higher reps ranges might be in order..try a rotation of 8-6-4 instead of 5-3-1; you can do 2 squat sessions/week, one being front squats (killer exercise for quad size) and add some isolation work, like 2-3 sets of leg extensions or lunges/single side leg presses.

170 kg x4 cred vid  :

https://www.facebook.com/marco.millul/videos/938544616204694/?pnref=story


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## Roland777

Solid squats broheim.


----------



## Ibanezsam4

Thanks for the advice guys. As it turns out i just accepted a new job yesterday that i think will sideline my rugby hobby for a bit (early morning hours, plus late night practice doesn't gel), but opens up my gym availability quite a bit.

definitely going to take everyone's advice and add volume in until i'm comfortable with the bar on my back (i just don't feel as strong as i used to). 

i could potentially be in the gym 5 days a week come mid-November

EDIT: sick fookin squats Millul


----------



## UnquestionablePresence

I'm actually working to compete in a powerlifting meet sometime soon. Probably going to be sometime next year because of the way membership works in the federation I'm likely to be competing in, also I need to get my hands on a singlet and a few other things that I may not be able to purchase in time for a meet this year because I'm a bit short on money at the moment.

Oh well, gives me time to go over the rules and build up my sorry ass bench. May also look into spectating the meet I would've attended if I knew I was going to be doing this sooner.

Right now it seems like squat and deadlift training is as simple as a heavy set once or twice a week + nutrition (I've put about 20 pounds back on my squat in the past two weeks) . I'm also making a transition to sumo since it seems to be pretty close to my conventional even though I haven't pulled sumo in over a year and it seems to suit the way I pull better.

Bench training isn't going to be quite so simple. I'm going to be giving a 16 week set/rep plan I pulled from a Kroc article a shot along with a little bit of reverse band work (I bought them, might as well use them) for my triceps. I plugged a conservative max into the program. This is going to be the first time I've broken away from linear progression. I've done a program that was "periodized" in a way before, but it was just a linear progression with weekly changes in rep schemes. I was testing and building at the same time. The way this Kroc bench program works, I'll build THEN test.


Biggest lesson learned this year: program each lift individually. I don't think linear progression is going to cut it for my bench anymore, but it still works for my squat and deadlift assuming nutrition is up to par. I can build and test my lower body at the same time, but my bench may need to be built and tested separately, and I don't have much experience with setting up a program to do this. So, I went with the Kroc bench program. We'll see how it goes. 16 weeks from now the goal is to bench more than 185.


----------



## Ibanezsam4

UnquestionablePresence said:


> Bench training isn't going to be quite so simple. I'm going to be giving a 16 week set/rep plan I pulled from a Kroc article a shot
> 
> We'll see how it goes. 16 weeks from now the goal is to bench more than 185.



i did the same program. went from barely being able to do 1rm of 160 to doing one at 225 (it was slow and weak as .... but it happened) about 14 weeks later. It's all the volume work that really picks your numbers up. 

another thing is make sure you do a ton of pull ups and lat work in addition to those tricep bands. knowing how strong your other lifts are you should shoot up pretty quickly


----------



## Millul

What I'm finding is that, as you say, each lift should be programmed for differently, based on how that lift responds to stimuli, aaaaand that THAT changes with time/level of the lifter, i.e.: volume will not ALWAYS be the answer for your bench.

It's all fun, I guess...!


----------



## Millul

Roland777 said:


> Solid squats broheim.



Thanks, Roland.
You should see the guy who's spotting me! He'll be competing at IPF worlds this year; very strong dude, and textbook form.


----------



## Roland777

1. What the FUC is up with the tags to this thread?
2. BAHAHAHA back to prior strength levels on the squat using steel plates! Not as narrow as comp weights, but nonetheless a step up from the bumper bonanza I was used to in the past. Form feels pretty solid, but I absolutely have to stretch my hips out evenly as the slightest difference in flexibility due to asymmetric tension will take me out of rhythm out of the hole. The last rep of yesterday's 190-squat was ugly as sin.


----------



## UnquestionablePresence

There was a supplement that got some publicity a while ago because it apparently had growth hormone or something like that in it in the form of bovine colostrum. Although getting GH from it was nothing like injecting it. I think WADA banned it regardless and there was this uproar about whether people who took the supplement were natural or not (you know how important it is to be natural on the interwebs, right?) and then Mark Lobliner made this video where he went on a huge rant about how BS it is to equate taking that supplement with using steroids and he starts screaming "IT'S JUST COLOSTRUM" a few times in it. The internet's obsession with who does and doesn't take steroids made the situation way bigger than it should've been. I got a good laugh out of the whole situation, and it was a running joke between a friend and I for a little bit. I obviously have nothing to do with that tag being there...

Those other tags I have no clue about.


----------



## Fiction

Hey guys just a quick Q, whats everyones view on deadlifts and the bar touching the shins, mine usually rubs along the shin very lightly, I don't get bruise or anything like that as ive read a few cases of that, they literally just lightly touch, but its easier with that than trying to avoid my shins, I've seen some say that shin scrape is unavoidable and others say it should be avoided. So what do you guys experience?


----------



## Ibanezsam4

Fiction said:


> Hey guys just a quick Q, whats everyones view on deadlifts and the bar touching the shins, mine usually rubs along the shin very lightly, I don't get bruise or anything like that as ive read a few cases of that, they literally just lightly touch, but its easier with that than trying to avoid my shins, I've seen some say that shin scrape is unavoidable and others say it should be avoided. So what do you guys experience?



in my view the touch your shins cue serves to purposes. 1) it helps tighten your lats (if you already know to tighten them) and tense them up for the pull. 2) it keeps the bar path straighter. 

im in the same boat where lightly touching is enough for me


----------



## Ibanezsam4

so im late to this trend, but what the hell is it with a small segment of fitness youtubers being on a steroid crusade???

whole channels are dedicated to tearing down bodybuilders and powerlifters for juicing but no one ever has the substantive arguments on why they are morally superior to guys who juice. 

just seems super immature considering every major athlete takes something of some degree to get an edge. why the hate?


----------



## Blytheryn

Hey guys, I've just started the Stronglifts 5x5, and so far I'm quite liking it. Doing squats every workout feels great, and even though I can lift heavier on most excercises than I am right now (working my way up from 50kg's on most excercises instead of going as heavy as I can so that I can focus on form and endurance etc) I feel that some body parts aren't getting as much focus as I'd wish. 

For those who aren't totally up to speed on 5x5 it's essentially a strength building program based on 3 excercises a workout for 5x5. (Squats, bench and rows one day, and squats, overhead presses and deadlifts the other day) you essentially cycle between those two workouts until you plateau and then tweak the reps and stuff. (3x3, 1x5 kinda jazz).

Now, it's wintertime, so some raw strength gains will be cool for when I start cutting in spring, but I don't want to neglect some of my favorite muscles groups to train. (Arms, and abs) also, I would like to add some more mass to my rear delts. Do any of you guys have any suggestions to how I could add these to my current split in a way that wouldn't be weird? 

Cheers!

EDIT: I forgot to mention that 5x5 is supposed to be a every other day workout. That means that I potentially have those days in between to hit them. Good idea?


----------



## UnderTheSign

Somewhere in this thread should be a post by MikeH on his adapted stronglifts with arm etc work in there. I'd rather do some curls and delt stuff after the main workout than on the days in between to allow for proper rest.


----------



## Blytheryn

UnderTheSign said:


> Somewhere in this thread should be a post by MikeH on his adapted stronglifts with arm etc work in there. I'd rather do some curls and delt stuff after the main workout than on the days in between to allow for proper rest.



I'll go look for it, thanks


----------



## AxeHappy

Blytheryn said:


> Hey guys, I've just started the Stronglifts 5x5, and so far I'm quite liking it. Doing squats every workout feels great, and even though I can lift heavier on most excercises than I am right now (working my way up from 50kg's on most excercises instead of going as heavy as I can so that I can focus on form and endurance etc) I feel that some body parts aren't getting as much focus as I'd wish.
> 
> For those who aren't totally up to speed on 5x5 it's essentially a strength building program based on 3 excercises a workout for 5x5. (Squats, bench and rows one day, and squats, overhead presses and deadlifts the other day) you essentially cycle between those two workouts until you plateau and then tweak the reps and stuff. (3x3, 1x5 kinda jazz).
> 
> Now, it's wintertime, so some raw strength gains will be cool for when I start cutting in spring, but I don't want to neglect some of my favorite muscles groups to train. (Arms, and abs) also, I would like to add some more mass to my rear delts. Do any of you guys have any suggestions to how I could add these to my current split in a way that wouldn't be weird?
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> EDIT: I forgot to mention that 5x5 is supposed to be a every other day workout. That means that I potentially have those days in between to hit them. Good idea?



Your arms will get plenty of work when the weight gets serious on bench, row and the overhead press. Forearms get plenty of work on deadlifts too. 

Heavy Squats are the single best ab exercise in existence. You work your core by bracing. Anti-flexion and whatnot. 

If you want extra arm work chins and dips are the best way to go.

Overheads are a great exercise to work all 3 heads of your shoulders. 

Leave your off days off. Your body needs that time to recover. It seems easy right now, but when you're squatting 225 for 25 reps and then deadlift 300 for 5 you will be thankful you don't have extra exercises.


Edit:
It should be noted (and is in the program plenty of times) that Stronglifts is a beginner program and you are supposed to move off it eventually! Keep it simple for now and move on when the time comes!


----------



## Blytheryn

AxeHappy said:


> Your arms will get plenty of work when the weight gets serious on bench, row and the overhead press. Forearms get plenty of work on deadlifts too.
> 
> Heavy Squats are the single best ab exercise in existence. You work your core by bracing. Anti-flexion and whatnot.
> 
> If you want extra arm work chins and dips are the best way to go.
> 
> Overheads are a great exercise to work all 3 heads of your shoulders.
> 
> Leave your off days off. Your body needs that time to recover. It seems easy right now, but when you're squatting 225 for 25 reps and then deadlift 300 for 5 you will be thankful you don't have extra exercises.
> 
> 
> Edit:
> It should be noted (and is in the program plenty of times) that Stronglifts is a beginner program and you are supposed to move off it eventually! Keep it simple for now and move on when the time comes!



Aye, I'm aware it's a beginner program, I Just feel that I'm quite far away from maxing out on a lot of excercises. Should I still keep bumping it up slowly on all or is it acceptable to raise the weight by say 5-10kg's on some just to feel like you're actually getting a workout? 

I forgot to say that I have been lifting since January 2014, so I have some pretty alright gains all around, just felt like 5x5 would be a great way to uniformly hit any weak spots that I had and boost my strength so I can hit heavier weights in the future.

Thanks for the feedback, I've recently moved to a new city and so far I don't have any gym buddies, but glad to know there's some meatheads on SSO


----------



## AxeHappy

If you lifted before he has a spreadsheet where you can enter your max and it will spit out what you should start at. Honestly though, I would just keep trucking along slowly. Lifting heavy is a marathon not a sprint. Take the opportunity with these lighter weights to make your sure form is beyond perfect!

If you are conditioned enough from lifting previously, he does have a bunch of assistance exercises that can be added though.


----------



## Blytheryn

AxeHappy said:


> If you lifted before he has a spreadsheet where you can enter your max and it will spit out what you should start at. Honestly though, I would just keep trucking along slowly. Lifting heavy is a marathon not a sprint. Take the opportunity with these lighter weights to make your sure form is beyond perfect!
> 
> If you are conditioned enough from lifting previously, he does have a bunch of assistance exercises that can be added though.



Wow, I have to find this post! Yeah, I know I need to focus on my rows and deadlifts, because I never felt confident in my form on those. I might be able to film me doing a few for critique.


----------



## Millul

Getting back from a hamstring injury:

https://www.facebook.com/marco.millul/videos/vb.100001474947000/1071336606258827/?type=2&theater


----------



## Harry

Millul said:


> Getting back from a hamstring injury:
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/marco.millul/videos/vb.100001474947000/1071336606258827/?type=2&theater



Beast!


----------



## USMarine75

Blytheryn said:


> Wow, I have to find this post! Yeah, I know I need to focus on my rows and deadlifts, because I never felt confident in my form on those. I might be able to film me doing a few for critique.



As a long time power lifter who specializes in back... it's all about T bar rows. Here's some advice FWIW:

-never use the machines. Use an olympic bar in a trap or in wall corner (with a couple 25 lbs counterbalance weights thrown on top for safety). The machines usually cause people to "dophin", lifting their chest off the pad and throwing the stress on the lower back.
-throw a couple 25 lbs plates on the floor under the 45's you're lifting as a podium to start from. This way you're not rowing off the floor. When you go heavy, you don't want to be pulling from the floor, as that will place way too much of the stress on your lower back.
-grip is super important. *** Use a false/superman/neutral grip... thumb along your fingers and not wrapped around bar. This takes the secondary stress off your forearms and arms, and allows you to concentrate on pulling the weight by retracting your scapula and pulling with your lats.
-try not to vary your back angle more than 15 degrees throughout the lift, as you would be doing more of a partial deadlift, again placing undue stress on your lower back and legs.
-around 45 degrees is a good starting point, depending on your flexibility and body type. If you stand too tall you place more stress on traps and shoulders, and take it off of your mid back. Too flat and you'll be off balance, lack a proper foundation, and stress your lower back.

I also do one arm t-bar rows, which I love. These are not just one arm versions of the t bar row. I set up 90 deg to the bar and lift/pull with the inside arm towards the chest . Starting position looks like an NFL OT down in his starting stance. I grip the end of the olympic bar, and for anything over a plate you'll prob need wrist wraps. I do from the floor (no podium and no counterbalance weights needed). I'll try and post videos, because I couldn't find any good pics online.

Start with your major pulling excercises and work towards the secondary muscles at end of routine. I like to do finishing exercises, especially those that involve cables, at end for a nice pump. Typically, I do:

T-bar rows
One-arm T-bar rows
DB rows, bent over reverse grip barbell rows, and/or wide grip machine rows (alternate workout)
Lat pulldowns (machine or cable)
Bent over DB flyes
Straight arm cable pulldowns or Lying DB Pullovers

I work back every 4 days, and I alternate heavy workouts with lighter that involves a lot of pullups instead.

My deadlift game is not as impressive, so I'll leave that to others...


----------



## MoshJosh

Hey guys and gals, I have a problem and I was hoping you can help me out.

So just for background I have been lifting for about a year and a half now, mind you at varying intensities throughout that time. Recently I have been doing a lot of pyramid sets(increase the weight and lower the reps with each set, hope my terminology is correct) for strength building with fairly good results. I've made progress when it comes to my bench and squat. For smaller muscle groups I usually do 3-4 sets of 10-12 reps each while increasing the weights as I go, and this has been going ok. . . But I just don't know how to work back!!! Aside from my deadlift I have made very few gains, both strength and mass, when it comes to back. So what kind of set and rep configurations do you guys use for upper back?


----------



## gnoll

MoshJosh said:


> Hey guys and gals, I have a problem and I was hoping you can help me out.
> 
> So just for background I have been lifting for about a year and a half now, mind you at varying intensities throughout that time. Recently I have been doing a lot of pyramid sets(increase the weight and lower the reps with each set, hope my terminology is correct) for strength building with fairly good results. I've made progress when it comes to my bench and squat. For smaller muscle groups I usually do 3-4 sets of 10-12 reps each while increasing the weights as I go, and this has been going ok. . . But I just don't know how to work back!!! Aside from my deadlift I have made very few gains, both strength and mass, when it comes to back. So what kind of set and rep configurations do you guys use for upper back?



Back is my favorite! 

I have a pretty simplistic way of doing things I guess. All I do for back is deadlift, pull-ups, barbell rows, and sometimes shrugs. The deadlifts I do on lower body day (I do sumo DLs because I like that more) and the pull-ups and rows I do on upper body day. If I do shrugs I usually put those right after the deadlifts.

Honestly I don't often think much about sets and reps. I don't have anything decided before I go to the gym, but rather just do what feels right when I'm there. For deadlifts and pull-ups I sometimes go heavier and sometimes lighter with more volume. I always try to warm up properly by increasing weights little by little before I get up to working set weights. If I'm going heavy I usually do some singles, and/or sets of 2 or 3 reps. Maybe 5-6 low rep sets in all? Something like that. Then I lower the weights a bit and try and get a little volume and technique-training in. Maybe 2-3 more sets of... 5-15 reps? Workouts where I don't go as heavy I usually keep most/all sets in the 5-10 rep range and do maybe... 4-5 working sets in all? For the rows however, I always do 3-4 working sets of 8-10 reps with moderate weight. They're always one of the last exercises I do, so my back is a bit tired by then. Shrugs I usually go pretty light with high rep count. 3-4 sets of about 15 reps. I just do those to completely drain my traps after deadlifts, occasionally, when I feel they need it.

I think set and rep ranges is quite individual what works best for people and has a lot to do with what's most fun. I don't think it's all too important, as long as you get enough overall volume and don't go crazy light to the point where you're just working endurance or something... I think the choice of which exercises you do is more important overall.

What back exercises do you do except for deadlifts?


----------



## MoshJosh

I always try to hit bent rows, lat pull downs (cable pull downs or hammer strength), and cable rows, but I usually throw in other stuff when I have time like dumbbell rows, reverse flies, and landmine rows.


----------



## gnoll

MoshJosh said:


> I always try to hit bent rows, lat pull downs (cable pull downs or hammer strength), and cable rows, but I usually throw in other stuff when I have time like dumbbell rows, reverse flies, and landmine rows.



Well that sounds pretty good I think. I would try to include pull-ups and ditch the pull-downs (or keep them and do both). There's a lot of ways you can vary the weight if your bodyweight isn't "right" for pull-ups, you can use resistance bands or assistance machines or do negatives if it's too heavy, or use a weight belt/vest/backpack if it's too light.

I'd say generally try to include both vertical and horizontal pulling, but it looks like you've got that covered pretty good.

Another thing I thought about is training frequency. Are you training your back often enough? I've recently started an upper body/lower body split, meaning I do deadlifts every other workout and pull-ups/rows every time I don't do deadlifts. That seems like an improvement for me, having come from a 4-way split where I only did back every fourth workout.


----------



## Ibanezsam4

gnoll said:


> Another thing I thought about is training frequency. Are you training your back often enough? I've recently started an upper body/lower body split, meaning I do deadlifts every other workout and pull-ups/rows every time I don't do deadlifts. That seems like an improvement for me, having come from a 4-way split where I only did back every fourth workout.



started doing this as well recently. the gains aren't passing the eyeball test yet, but my back is definitely getting stronger


----------



## Cabinet

Recently joined a powerlifting gym. Started doing Bench/Squat/OHP/Deadlift. I've been enjoying it a lot, great way to relieve stress and build confidence.
Here I am doing 3x3 for 225 lbs. Retested my max and my squat went from 265 lbs to 285. 6' at 190 lbs currently. Chasing that big 3 plate!


----------



## Millul

Harry said:


> Beast!



Thanks mate, far form beastly tough...yet!


----------



## Fiction

Hey anyone on 5 day splits how do you split it up?

I'm currently on;

M: Legs
Tu: Chest + Abs
W: Shoulders
Th: Rest
F: Back + Abs
S: Arms
S: Off

I'm just finding by the time I get to arms on saturday my forearm grip is not great, so not sure whether to slip it into the middle somewhere.


----------



## Bearitone

Fiction said:


> Hey anyone on 5 day splits how do you split it up?
> 
> I'm currently on;
> 
> M: Legs
> Tu: Chest + Abs
> W: Shoulders
> Th: Rest
> F: Back + Abs
> S: Arms
> S: Off
> 
> I'm just finding by the time I get to arms on saturday my forearm grip is not great, so not sure whether to slip it into the middle somewhere.



I try to have a little pushing, pulling, and legs with each workout. And I usually only lift 3 days a week. The rest is jogging, swimming, or yoga.

Day 1: Close-grip underhand pullups, Incline Bench, Squats
Day 2: Rows, Dips, Lunges
Day 3: Wide-grip pullups, Flat bench, Deadlift


I mix and match though. Some days I'll do box jumps, pistol squats, or sprints to replace a leg lift.


----------



## Fiction

Spilt my protein all through my bag, sad day, RIP IN PEACE.


----------



## Blytheryn

Fiction said:


> Spilt my protein all through my bag, sad day, RIP IN PEACE.



Here's hoping it wasn't whey 100! Stuff is expensive!


----------



## Ibanezsam4

so.... i lost my gains. 

not all of them, just the ones i care about. specifically my squat is shot. 

back in June i was feeling a little extra fatigue, and then i got a random unexplained fever spiking at 103 for 3-4 days. got better, went on vacation and the fever came back this time for 5 days. 

Turns out i have 2 treatable tick borne illnesses. however the meds have caused me to lose a bit of weight. 

my question: i've lost 5lbs of weight off my legs already. can i re-gain my gains quickly? or is it back to muscle building square one?


----------



## UnderTheSign

What I've been told is most guys seem to gain back their old strength somewhat quickly. Just take it easy, start low and keep your nutrition on point.


----------



## sharedEQ

Fiction said:


> Hey anyone on 5 day splits how do you split it up?
> 
> I'm currently on;
> 
> M: Legs
> Tu: Chest + Abs
> W: Shoulders
> Th: Rest
> F: Back + Abs
> S: Arms
> S: Off
> 
> I'm just finding by the time I get to arms on saturday my forearm grip is not great, so not sure whether to slip it into the middle somewhere.



Jesus, 5 day split is for very advanced lifters, usually guys on drugs.

Push, Pull, Legs is better split for intermediate and natural guys. Hitting group twice a week is best. Once a week you won't see the gains.


----------



## Fiction

sharedEQ said:


> Jesus, 5 day split is for very advanced lifters, usually guys on drugs.
> 
> Push, Pull, Legs is better split for intermediate and natural guys. Hitting group twice a week is best. Once a week you won't see the gains.



I don't feel like amount of days is more advanced, it really depends on intensity. I think a lot of other exercises throughout the week revisit other parts, such as deadlifts training both legs and back, chest/tricep crossover etc.. I've had better progress with the 5 day split because I am more likely to get every muscle group in for a good workout in a 45 minute workout. I just don't have the time to be doing 3 days @ 90 mins each time.

Also with a 3 day push/pull/leg you're still only training each muscle group once, just having more days off.

Although downside is, I had a flu for like 2 weeks, lost a fair bit of weight, got back in the gym for 2 weeks, went away on holidays, I got back 2 days ago and woke up sick again yesterday, so I've stunted a bit


----------



## wheresthefbomb

can you bench press the new Scion TC?


----------



## MikeH

sharedEQ said:


> Jesus, 5 day split is for very advanced lifters, usually guys on drugs.
> 
> Push, Pull, Legs is better split for intermediate and natural guys. Hitting group twice a week is best. Once a week you won't see the gains.



5 day split is certainly not just for guys on drugs. 5 day split is pretty common for guys who are fit. I'm on a 4 day plan, and I include "active rest" days of running and swimming on my days off to keep from getting stiff. Not to mention, I squat nearly every gym day.


Strength is coming back up, and run time is going down. Cut off 17 seconds from my mile and a half last week, and worked back up to 405x3 and 435x1 on squats, which is a post-basic training PR since last year. Going to try for 405x1 with no belt or wraps soon, as well as a 455x1 with belt and wraps.


----------



## Blytheryn

MikeH said:


> 5 day split is certainly not just for guys on drugs. 5 day split is pretty common for guys who are fit. I'm on a 4 day plan, and I include "active rest" days of running and swimming on my days off to keep from getting stiff. Not to mention, I squat nearly every gym day.
> 
> 
> Strength is coming back up, and run time is going down. Cut off 17 seconds from my mile and a half last week, and worked back up to 405x3 and 435x1 on squats, which is a post-basic training PR since last year. Going to try for 405x1 with no belt or wraps soon, as well as a 455x1 with belt and wraps.



Cool news on the run man! Can't wait to kick this bug I've got to get my time lower as well.


----------



## JeffFromMtl

I lost a bunch of weight after I moved and once I finally got into the groove at the gym and found a reliable source for protein supplements in this shady-as-hell country, I got slammed by an e-bike while biking to work a few weeks ago and suffered a separated shoulder. So for 3 weeks, I've been at home, no work, no gym, almost no exercise aside from walking. So when I get back in the gym in maybe 2-3 weeks, not only will I be back at square one, but I'll have to start with rehabbing my ruined shoulder, which will never be the same again. Can't catch a damn break.


----------



## Blytheryn

So I've started Coolcicada's PPL routine, and I'll tweak it a little by implementing deadlifts. I'm hoping that I'll see some good gains with the added frequency. Any idea why I'm doing 3x5 and not 5?
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=149807833


----------



## MikeH

I'm assuming because of the volume you're getting in with your accessory work. It doesn't necessarily look like a strength program, but more of a bodybuilding program with some compound movements in it. Try it out for a couple weeks, and if you feel like you aren't getting enough volume in, shoot for 5x5. Personally, if you're trying to make strength gains while getting bigger, I'd look into The Cube Method. There's a calculator on Black Iron Beast (http://blackironbeast.com/cube/calculator) where you can input your 1RMs on the big 3, and choose your accessories for each day, and it will write the program for you. I've used it while peaking for PL competitions, and if I ever get back into it, I'll use it again. Not to mention, Brandon Lilly sticks with the philosophy that, if you're strong, you should also look like you're strong, so there's a lot of hypertrophy accessory work throughout each week, plus a day totally devoted to it.

I mean...would you really question him?


----------



## Blytheryn

MikeH said:


> I'm assuming because of the volume you're getting in with your accessory work. It doesn't necessarily look like a strength program, but more of a bodybuilding program with some compound movements in it. Try it out for a couple weeks, and if you feel like you aren't getting enough volume in, shoot for 5x5. Personally, if you're trying to make strength gains while getting bigger, I'd look into The Cube Method. There's a calculator on Black Iron Beast (http://blackironbeast.com/cube/calculator) where you can input your 1RMs on the big 3, and choose your accessories for each day, and it will write the program for you. I've used it while peaking for PL competitions, and if I ever get back into it, I'll use it again. Not to mention, Brandon Lilly sticks with the philosophy that, if you're strong, you should also look like you're strong, so there's a lot of hypertrophy accessory work throughout each week, plus a day totally devoted to it.
> 
> I mean...would you really question him?



Yeah, what I've noted the past few days of trying this program is that it does take it out of you if you go all in on the strength sets. You wind up doing each workout twice a week too. That website looks legit, I'll look through it in any case... Some stuff caught my attention! I've never been focused on pure strength, more the strength that came with the gains of doing a bodybuilding style workout, but upping the numbers is never a bad thing


----------



## Ibanezsam4

Blytheryn said:


> Yeah, what I've noted the past few days of trying this program is that it does take it out of you if you go all in on the strength sets. You wind up doing each workout twice a week too. That website looks legit, I'll look through it in any case... Some stuff caught my attention! I've never been focused on pure strength, more the strength that came with the gains of doing a bodybuilding style workout, but upping the numbers is never a bad thing




also consider this http://swoleateveryheight.blogspot.com/2016/02/gzcl-applications-adaptations.html 

it's more complicated if you jump straight in and start programming on your own, but the 3 preloaded programs are great (doing high frequency 9 week now). i like the philosophy of loading up a bunch of sub-maximal volume with movement/ intensity variations. 

it's worth doing a pre-planned routine once and then going ham on the blank excel sheet and changing everything you want


----------



## MikeH

Decided I'm going to get back into powerlifting competitively. My career is rather stagnant right now, and I can't really progress the way I want to until I finish school, which starts up next month, so I want to do something I enjoy to keep myself busy. I did a mock meet with myself on Friday just to see where I sit in a non-peaked, non-rested state, and totaled 1,100 at 165. I hit a 440 squat, 245 bench, and 415 deadlift. My best in each lift in the last 3 months has been a 440 squat, 265 bench, and 455 deadlift, so at this point, it's all about getting back into the conditioning to keep myself able to hit those numbers all in the same day. I'll be starting a new cycle of The Cube Method tomorrow, and retesting myself in 10 weeks. Also going to be adding in two cardio days, just to keep conditioned for work and my upcoming PT test. Excited to get back into it.


----------



## Millul

Very good numbers, Mike!

My leg has finally started to behave, moving some halfway decent weights after almost a full year:
https://www.facebook.com/marco.millul/videos/1165119893547164/


----------



## Ibanezsam4

I'm about to hop on the Chanko Nabe train for some quality food gains. 



i hate eating raw veggies so any kind of stew that is loaded with them i will tend to try. Reasonably portioned, this looks like an inexpensive and easy way to hit my calorie requirements. 

This in combination with my vegan Italian soup i think will help me get way more vitamins and nutrients into my diet and allow me to focus on my other meals in the day. 

anyone else have some cool weightlifter meals they like to make?


----------



## Anquished

Hey guys, thought I'd throw this question in here.

I've been lifting weights for a while and made decent progress in most areas. One area I seem to be lagging in at the moment however, is shoulders. 

I'm currently on a 5x5 reps and sets plan for my compound exercises and I seem to have peaked at 60kg on overhead shoulder press. No matter how many times I deload and build back up, I can't break through it. I've tried swapping to 12 x 4 one week and back the next to see if that would help, but it hasn't shifted at all. 

I usually do lateral raises, plate shrugs and dumbell press in the 10-12 rep ranges after the 5x5 on the overhead press.. Usually train each muscle group 1-2 times a week. 

Any tips or advice you can give? Cheers.


----------



## Ibanezsam4

Anquished said:


> Hey guys, thought I'd throw this question in here.
> 
> I've been lifting weights for a while and made decent progress in most areas. One area I seem to be lagging in at the moment however, is shoulders.
> 
> I'm currently on a 5x5 reps and sets plan for my compound exercises and I seem to have peaked at 60kg on overhead shoulder press. No matter how many times I deload and build back up, I can't break through it. I've tried swapping to 12 x 4 one week and back the next to see if that would help, but it hasn't shifted at all.
> 
> I usually do lateral raises, plate shrugs and dumbell press in the 10-12 rep ranges after the 5x5 on the overhead press.. Usually train each muscle group 1-2 times a week.
> 
> Any tips or advice you can give? Cheers.



you officially stalled on 5x5. what you need to do now is more volume divided up over more varied rep schemes. 

if you like what you're doing with every other muscle group, try Greg Nuckols 28 free programs and use his bench scheme for overhead press. 

http://strengtheory.com/train-smarter/


----------



## Millul

https://www.facebook.com/marco.millul/videos/1171735269552293/

170kg x2 squat from last week - things are looking rather good, even if the 2nd rep wasn't textbook approved


----------



## Anquished

Cheers, I'll take a look at that.


----------



## MikeH

I'm in serious need of a nutritional reform. I'll preface it by saying that I do eat very wholesome dinners, and the leftovers turn into lunches. Lots of lean meats, clean carbs (rice, wheat pasta), and veggies. But it's the work-day breakfasts, drinks, and snacks that kill me. I drink at least one Rockstar a day, my breakfast usually consists of oatmeal and a Jimmy Dean sausage biscuit. And I can eat the sh!t out of some cookies. I'm on WIC now, so I get free peanut butter, wheat tortillas, pasta, and a certain dollar amount of veggies/fruits. I'm going to start making high-calorie protein shakes in the morning with powder, whole milk, oats, and peanut butter to take in some extra calories and eliminate a lot of the processed crap I eat. Need to find an alternative caffeine source with way less sugar, and eliminate some of the sweets I eat. I'm not fat. In fact, I really need to add weight. I just want to feel better about what I'm eating. I want to put on a solid 10 lbs before the end of the year, so I need to start shoveling it in.


----------



## MikeH

Millul said:


> https://www.facebook.com/marco.millul/videos/1171735269552293/
> 
> 170kg x2 squat from last week - things are looking rather good, even if the 2nd rep wasn't textbook approved



Textbook approved? It looked solid to me! Nice job, man.


----------



## Ibanezsam4

MikeH said:


> Need to find an alternative caffeine source with way less sugar, and eliminate some of the sweets I eat.



coffee. cold brew a light roast to eliminate bitter flavors and use less sugar.


----------



## MikeH

Ibanezsam4 said:


> coffee. cold brew a light roast to eliminate bitter flavors and use less sugar.



I'm not much of a coffee guy, but I have started drinking it. Totally black or with 1 sugar. Still not getting the same effects, but I think I'll adjust. I had a red bull today, and it did absolutely nothing for me, so I think my body is just trying to cleanse itself of caffeine addiction.


Also, has anyone here run a conjugate program for strength? I've got blueprints for one and it looks way more fun than what I'm doing now. The Cube has worked well for me in the past, but it's getting stagnant running it for the third time. I understand it's usefulness, but I also like that conjugate training puts you under heavy weight more often.


----------



## AxeHappy

I have never personally run it but I do know more then a couple of people who have used it to get strong as hell.

From what they have said, if your body responds well to high weight, low volume training it will make you ....ing explode. If you prefer high volume stuff look for something else. 


Disclaimer:
I have never even looked it up, so don't yell at me if they didn't know what they were talking about.


----------



## Ibanezsam4

MikeH said:


> Also, has anyone here run a conjugate program for strength? I've got blueprints for one and it looks way more fun than what I'm doing now. The Cube has worked well for me in the past, but it's getting stagnant running it for the third time. I understand it's usefulness, but I also like that conjugate training puts you under heavy weight more often.



understand that if you run a true conjugate the weights may be heavier but the volume is really reduced (it was programmed for lifters using shirts and suits). if you're someone who responds to low reps then this makes no difference, but if having a ton of volume is beneficial look for variations of the programs that bring in back-off sets or stance variations etc.


----------



## MikeH

The template I have was run by a raw lifter, so I feel like it would translate well. And the goal is to add to my max, so I think it might be helpful. I use accessories for hypertrophy, but would rather use heavy weight and low reps on the compound lifts. I'm going to give The Cube maybe 4 more weeks, do a deload, then retest maxes and see where I'm at. I'll go from there afterwards.


----------



## Ibanezsam4

MikeH said:


> The template I have was run by a raw lifter, so I feel like it would translate well. And the goal is to add to my max, so I think it might be helpful. I use accessories for hypertrophy, but would rather use heavy weight and low reps on the compound lifts. I'm going to give The Cube maybe 4 more weeks, do a deload, then retest maxes and see where I'm at. I'll go from there afterwards.




word. also, and this goes to everyone in this threat looking to get stronger.

Check this video out... it describes everything you need to be a beast


----------



## MikeH

Ibanezsam4 said:


> it describes everything you need to be a beast



Tren and dbol...


----------



## Blytheryn

MikeH said:


> Tren and dbol...



Both cornerstones of a healthy, nutritious diet.


----------



## Ibanezsam4

MikeH said:


> Tren and dbol...



which kinobody can buy with his parents money


----------



## Anquished

MikeH said:


> Tren and dbol...



Eat Clen, Tren Hard.


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## MikeH

On another note, finally pulled 465 after missing it 4 times in the gym, and twice in competition over the past nearly 2 years. Got in the mindset of hitting 415x4 that day, which I did, and it felt good enough to go for a heavy single. Loaded up 445 and hit that super easy. Decided to throw on 465 and had zero issues with it. Came off the floor fast, and I locked it out strong. This was after a 10 hour work day wearing a 30 lb ballistic vest and eating when I could. Going to try for 475 soon. My goal was 500 after I come back from deployment next year, but I think I'm going to try to hit it before I leave.


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## Millul

Good job with the DLs, Mike!


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## Blytheryn

This week has been a week of firsts. My last back day I was able to max out doing 330lbs x 3 on deadlift, and earlier today I 1RM'ed 660 on the leg press. WTF. Very pleased. Now to just get my squat strength up.


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## Anquished

Managed to get 5x5 on 115kg Squat yesterday + 1 set of 5 105kg Deadlifts. Pretty happy with that as I've been recovering from a lower back injury 

Trying to work up to 145kg squat and a similar deadlift by March.


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## Millul

Good job! Make sure to keep sound form throughout to stay clear of nags/injuries!


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## Anquished

Millul said:


> Good job! Make sure to keep sound form throughout to stay clear of nags/injuries!



Cheers man! 

I deloaded considerably after the injury and worked back up to the weights I'm on now, concentrating on form. So far - zero pain.


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## MikeH

Hit a sh!tload of PRs in the gym recently and my current numbers are as stands:
500 squat (wraps)
275 bench
475 deadlift
Provided this week is a good deload, next week will be a mock meet for me. Hoping I can pull all of those numbers together and then some. Currently sitting at ~175 lbs body weight.


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## Anquished

MikeH said:


> Hit a sh!tload of PRs in the gym recently and my current numbers are as stands:
> 500 squat (wraps)
> 275 bench
> 475 deadlift
> Provided this week is a good deload, next week will be a mock meet for me. Hoping I can pull all of those numbers together and then some. Currently sitting at ~175 lbs body weight.



Nice, that is awesome for that body weight!


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## Blytheryn

With some good form coaching from the gym bros I was finally able to get 220 for a single. It's eluded me for so long, I'm ecstatic to have nailed it finally!


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## AxeHappy

Nice. I can't bench worth ....!


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## Blytheryn

AxeHappy said:


> Nice. I can't bench worth ....!



Thanks dude! I've realized that there is so much technique involved in the bench. Everything from how you breathe to your shoulder position, grip and leg drive, as well as a back arch. A few months ago I had really no idea about most of this... after a while it just becomes natural. The crazy thing is that once the bar got off moving off my chest it just flew up, almost effortlessly. I might have to put a few more pounds on in the future to find my real PR!


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## Ibanezsam4

decided to start prioritizing my overhead press over bench. The more i looked at my goals i realized a big bench is not a need right now. but trunk support and upper body strength is a must. 

so more direct strict pressing work (thinking 3 variations a week) and then keeping a handful of bench variations just to maintain and practice the movement


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## MikeH

I took a short break (16 days) from lifting before deployment to let myself rest, and to prioritize my time with my wife and son before leaving. Since then, I've started 5/3/1 For Mass (from 5/3/1 For Powerlifting), and I'm excited to see where it goes. Wendler has always been an idol of mine, from his ridiculous strength, to his love for heavy music, to his general outlook on life. I'm only two days in, and I'm currently postponing my third day due to being in transit between bases to my final destination, but I'm hoping for some definite improvement, seeing as I never really do OHP/military press, and now I have a whole day devoted to it.


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## domsch1988

I went full circle in the past 8 months. I started full body 4 days a week for 4 months to start build the foundation. After that i went to a push-pull split 4 days a week.

After some research i'm back to full body 3 times a week. I loosely follow outalpha in theory. Although Alex has some strong opinions on some subjects that i have different views on, the general concept speaks to me.
So, it's 3 days, intensity-volume-intensity. Then, two days rest. Intensity days are basically, warmup sets, then 3-5 sets of 3 with 80-90% ORM. Volume days are more like 3-5 sets of 10-20 (depending on the exercise). One of the keys to make it work is short rests between sets (as low as 10 seconds) and super-setting where possible (depending on gym and gear availble). I can get through my full body intensity routine in under an hour.

I'm not looking for strength though. I love the feeling of moving heavy weights, but my goals aren't specific numbers. I'm looking for a massive physique. So, Shoulders, upper back and traps, and forearms are priorities. I work to keep my bodyfat between 15 and 20%. I'm now 29 and just started my weight lifting journey. But i love the results so far and am happy to finally have found a sport i really enjoy doing.


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