# Direct drive double bass pedals



## Djep (Jan 22, 2019)

I am going to start drumming besides many years of guitarism and buy Millenium MPS-850 e-drums and doublepedals soon after that. Thinking of direct drive Millenium PD-223 Pro or PDP Concept. After searching found these machined direct drive 25" long boards which appeals to my eye http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5338014327&icep_item=192493713669
I like good quality equipment not the brand names. Prefer new. I'm interested on those no name ones so anyone have any idea that are they even close as awesome as they look? They're like a copy of Czarcie kopyto and have some fine adjustments. Would use these for some modern proggressive metal with wife and kids if they got into drumming when they grow up.
Have tried direct drive Pearl Demons and that I remember they were nice.


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## prlgmnr (Jan 23, 2019)

That looks like a copy of the Trick Bigfoot pedals, but with a regular spring instead of a compression spring.

For that money I'd be looking for second hand Axis or Trick pedals all day long.


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## Ordacleaphobia (Jan 23, 2019)

prlgmnr said:


> That looks like a copy of the Trick Bigfoot pedals, but with a regular spring instead of a compression spring.
> 
> For that money I'd be looking for second hand Axis or Trick pedals all day long.



I don't think you'd have much luck finding a good condition used Trick in that ballpark; but I would caution against Axis.
I have one of the Axis pedals and I seriously hate it. Adjusting this thing is a bitch and three quarters. The industrial style design is also really, really good at pinching your hand when you're working on or carrying it. Looks great though. Plays okay, and totally sold me on direct drive, but I really, really wish I just ponied up the extra few hundred bucks for a Trick or DW. Pedals are absolutely not something you want to settle on.


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## prlgmnr (Jan 24, 2019)

Ordacleaphobia said:


> Adjusting this thing is a bitch and three quarters.



I have a pair of Axis longboards and a pair of Trick Pro1vs, I massively prefer playing the Axis but you're not wrong about the adjustability, it's an absolute twatting nightmare.

I don't know if it's just because the springs on the Trick won't go as tight that I prefer the Axis.


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## Djep (Jan 24, 2019)

Pdp Concept Is out of question cause many revievers on Amazon are saying they're luggish for speed. Used we have only about older Eliminators and Axis. Not a single Trick pedal.
As for Axis I think the basic adjustability could be a mess as you say.


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## TedEH (Jan 24, 2019)

Djep said:


> e-drums


Just my  but if you're going to be playing only on an e-kit, I think the extra expense on good pedals might be a bit of a waste, since it's not going to respond/rebound the way an acoustic drum would. The feel ends up not being right even if the pedals are right for you.


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## Ordacleaphobia (Jan 24, 2019)

TedEH said:


> Just my  but if you're going to be playing only on an e-kit, I think the extra expense on good pedals might be a bit of a waste, since it's not going to respond/rebound the way an acoustic drum would. The feel ends up not being right even if the pedals are right for you.



I would actually argue the opposite. I was able to get by with really, really bad pedals on my actual kit, but when the time came to switch to eDrums, getting something that felt 'natural' was crazy difficult. I went from my old no-name pedals, to a pair of DW5000s, to Iron Cobras, to DW8000s, to the Axis pedals I have now. The 8000s felt natural but struggled with speed and the Axis pedals were the first ones that felt "correct." There's also the argument that pedals are universal; if you switch to an acoustic kit later, good pedals are good pedals. 

Then there's also the possibility that I'm just a cork sniffer. Stranger things have happened.



Djep said:


> Pdp Concept Is out of question cause many revievers on Amazon are saying they're luggish for speed. Used we have only about older Eliminators and Axis. Not a single Trick pedal.
> As for Axis I think the basic adjustability could be a mess as you say.



I can't give you firsthand experience because I've never played them, but I have heard really nothing but fantastic things about the Pearl pedals, even the more midrange chain drive stuff. Those might be a great balance option to split the difference.


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## TedEH (Jan 24, 2019)

I suppose I've never really been in a spot where I had good pedals and an e-kit at the same time. I've always had cheaper pedals, and only felt the need to upgrade after switching to an acoustic kit.


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## Ordacleaphobia (Jan 24, 2019)

TedEH said:


> I suppose I've never really been in a spot where I had good pedals and an e-kit at the same time. I've always had cheaper pedals, and only felt the need to upgrade after switching to an acoustic kit.



There's also the possibility that you just have good technique; because mine is admittedly pretty awful. Could explain why we had completely opposite experiences


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## TedEH (Jan 24, 2019)

I think it's more likely that we have different but equally awful technique.  I'm a guitarist-turned-bassist-turned-drummer as opposed to someone who has always played sooooo take any drum advice from me with a grain of salt. Or a whole shaker of salt.


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## TheWarAgainstTime (Jan 25, 2019)

I've owned Axis AL-2 Longboards and currently have a set of Trick Pro 1Vs. I prefer the Tricks in basically every conceivable way  durability, feel, adjustment, bass drum attachment, beaters, etc. Got them used for a steal, but they're well worth the price new IMO


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## Sephiroth952 (Jan 25, 2019)

Tama just released their new direct drive pedal.

https://www.tama.com/usa/products/detail/hpds1tw.html


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## Djep (Jan 26, 2019)

Dyna-sync could be nice with slidable cam.


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## Sephiroth952 (Jan 26, 2019)

Djep said:


> Dyna-sync could be nice with slidable cam.


I'm not a drummer, but I do some tech work for my step dad and I even calibrated his new speed cobras when he got those. As a guitarist messing with something so foreign I can say that the speed cobra format (which the dyna-sync is built on) is super user friendly and easy to tweak. Also extremely serviceable, he had another set that the band he joined was using at their practice space and the bearing was completely seized, but since the bearing just come right out and use a standard skateboard bearing I was able to replace them right away with some I had laying around.


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## sezna (Jan 30, 2019)

I used demon (direct) drives for a while and eventually ended up switching to speed cobras (chain drive) as I felt more accurate and quick on them. Definitely try out some speed cobras, dw9000s, demon drives, etc. before just assuming you'll like direct drives more and be quicker with them. For me, I like the non-linear response of the speed cobras, it is like the tactile click on a mechanical keyboard. It helps me deliver consistent and powerful hits. With the demon drives, I felt like there was zero resistance at all, and I could fly super fast but could not hit consistently hard or with excellent timing.

Different strokes for different folks, just don't dismiss chain drive because it seems less quick than direct drive conceptually.

It should also be noted a bunch of metal drummers are moving away from direct drive, as I think the fad is almost over. Alex Rudinger, Anup Sastry, and a few others moved from Demon Drives to Speed Cobras. Direct drive stuff is gaining popularity in Jazz where they need incredibly precise control of their dynamics on the bass drum.


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## Ordacleaphobia (Jan 30, 2019)

sezna said:


> I used demon (direct) drives for a while and eventually ended up switching to speed cobras (chain drive) as I felt more accurate and quick on them. Definitely try out some speed cobras, dw9000s, demon drives, etc. before just assuming you'll like direct drives more and be quicker with them. For me, I like the non-linear response of the speed cobras, it is like the tactile click on a mechanical keyboard. It helps me deliver consistent and powerful hits. With the demon drives, I felt like there was zero resistance at all, and I could fly super fast but could not hit consistently hard or with excellent timing.
> 
> Different strokes for different folks, just don't dismiss chain drive because it seems less quick than direct drive conceptually.
> 
> It should also be noted a bunch of metal drummers are moving away from direct drive, as I think the fad is almost over. Alex Rudinger, Anup Sastry, and a few others moved from Demon Drives to Speed Cobras. Direct drive stuff is gaining popularity in Jazz where they need incredibly precise control of their dynamics on the bass drum.



Did you play the 9000s? If so, how would you compare the Speed Cobras?
I want to try them because I hear tons and tons of praise, but given my experience with every other form of Tama hardware being unfathomably terrible, I'm hesitant to drop the coin for pedals. I did play 8000s for a while though (which felt identical to the 9000s my buddy had if I'm being real), so I'm curious if there's any comparison.


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## sezna (Jan 30, 2019)

Ordacleaphobia said:


> Did you play the 9000s? If so, how would you compare the Speed Cobras?
> I want to try them because I hear tons and tons of praise, but given my experience with every other form of Tama hardware being unfathomably terrible, I'm hesitant to drop the coin for pedals. I did play 8000s for a while though (which felt identical to the 9000s my buddy had if I'm being real), so I'm curious if there's any comparison.


I've owned Demon (direct) Drives, Mapex Falcons, Iron Cobras, Speed Cobras, Axis Longboards, and Demon Chain drives. I have played my friend's DW9002 pedals as well.

My favorites I've owned are Speed Cobras, for reasons outlined above. I know tama stands and hardware can be bad, but their drums and pedals are not, you can take my word for it. I've actually owned three pairs of speed cobras, having sold them, regretted it, and rebought them twice, and they've all been very easy to set up and consistent.

I would say Speed Cobras and DW9002 pedals are equal in quality but different in feel. I would also suggest to look at the DW9002 XF pedal, as it is more comparable to the other pedals you have listed with its longer footboard. The Speed Cobra "feel" is non-linear, you get a bit more resistance at the beginning and then it drops off, launching the beater into the head. The dw9000 feeling is like, you just have to think about hitting the head and the beater is already there. If luxury drum pedals are a thing, they're dw9002XF pedals. 

All of this said, DW9002 pedals are absolutely divine, especially if you can get the XF longboard version. I cannot speak to what it is like to own them, but I have a lot of hours on them and they're truly amazing pedals. They feel different to the Speed Cobras, though. Are you able to try both out?


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## Ordacleaphobia (Jan 30, 2019)

sezna said:


> All of this said, DW9002 pedals are absolutely divine, especially if you can get the XF longboard version. I cannot speak to what it is like to own them, but I have a lot of hours on them and they're truly amazing pedals. They feel different to the Speed Cobras, though. Are you able to try both out?



I've played the normal 9000s on and off pretty consistently, so I'm familiar with how they feel. Never seen an XF variant though.
Nobody I know owns a Speed Cobra and while I'm sure they've got one set up at GuitarCenter, it's different _owning _it though, and being able to play on your setup, with your parameters- so if I end up plunging for it it'd pretty much be sight unseen. Really good to hear that the quality is above their stands and such, because those were a nightmare.

I've heard the DWs are better all-rounder pedals while the Speed Cobras are better suited for the quick, fast rolls we have in metal. As someone who's definitely drank the direct-drive kool-aid, I think I'd at least like to give them a shot if they compare to the 9000s before I go whole hog and commit to buying a really high end pair of Tricks or something.


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## sezna (Jan 30, 2019)

Ordacleaphobia said:


> I've played the normal 9000s on and off pretty consistently, so I'm familiar with how they feel. Never seen an XF variant though.
> Nobody I know owns a Speed Cobra and while I'm sure they've got one set up at GuitarCenter, it's different _owning _it though, and being able to play on your setup, with your parameters- so if I end up plunging for it it'd pretty much be sight unseen. Really good to hear that the quality is above their stands and such, because those were a nightmare.
> 
> I've heard the DWs are better all-rounder pedals while the Speed Cobras are better suited for the quick, fast rolls we have in metal. As someone who's definitely drank the direct-drive kool-aid, I think I'd at least like to give them a shot if they compare to the 9000s before I go whole hog and commit to buying a really high end pair of Tricks or something.



Here you go. 

I personally hate the feel of tricks/axis/DD. It feels too light for me, so I can go quicker but lose control. But like I said, it is all preference. I can answer any questions or provide pictures about my Speed Cobras if you'd like. Their length and the spring under the footboard are solid plusses. The fact that so many metal drummers recently transitioned to them speaks well too. They're also very easy to adjust and come with a great case, drum key, etc.

edit: I realize this sounds like an ad, sorry. I just like mine a lot. I encourage you to try them out, but in the end, it is all subjective.


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## Ordacleaphobia (Jan 30, 2019)

Nah man I appreciate it, it's been over a decade and I still haven't found a set of pedals I'm excited about- so enthusiastic opinions are definitely helpful.


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## MerlinTKD (Feb 1, 2019)

Disclaimer: I'm a Tama fanboy 

Having said that, I've been using a DW5002 set for years, I love them, and (more importantly) I'm used to them; I know exactly how to do the things I want to do. The only pedals that have tempted me to upgrade are the Speed Cobras, they're like the best of both worlds between typical chain drive power and direct drive speed. I haven't looked, but I bet you could find a decently priced used set, since they've been around a while now. Although... that Tama direct drive video has me thinking, I admit!


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## sezna (Feb 1, 2019)

MerlinTKD said:


> Disclaimer: I'm a Tama fanboy
> 
> Having said that, I've been using a DW5002 set for years, I love them, and (more importantly) I'm used to them; I know exactly how to do the things I want to do.



This is important too, whatever you get you just gotta stick with it and learn the muscle memory and feeling of that particular pedal. Chasing new pedals can leave you without a “home base”


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## Ebony (Feb 2, 2019)

I'd buy the demon drive. For a direct drive pedal, it has a pretty "normal" feel. That can be a concrete advantage when learning on the pedals, as you're not then thrown off too bad when playing other peoples gear. The Axis pedals are _very_ light and the Trick pedals are _very_ unique.

If you ever aspire to play precise 16th note singlestrokes at 250bpm+, direct drive offers concrete, non-fad advantages. If prog at current standards is the final aim, just buy the pedal you get the best deal on.

Pedals I'd avoid: Dw3000, Iron Cobra 200-series, any chain-drive Gibraltar that isn't the 9811 or the 9711.


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## TedEH (Feb 2, 2019)

Ebony said:


> Pedals I'd avoid: Dw3000


Curious what you don't like about those? That's what I'm using and they seem fine.


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## Ebony (Feb 2, 2019)

TedEH said:


> Curious what you don't like about those?



Shitty build quality, even for the price point. I currently own a two-legged hihat stand from the 3000-series with a lot of the same parts, and it's the second worst piece of gear I own.


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## TedEH (Feb 2, 2019)

Odd. I've played on 5000 and 3000 pedals and they feel different, but I've never had any complained regarding build quality. Maybe I'm just not a very experienced drummer, but I found the 5000 level to have passed that "I can tell the difference enough to justify the cost" line by a significant amount.


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## Ebony (Feb 3, 2019)

TedEH said:


> Odd. I've played on 5000 and 3000 pedals and they feel different, but I've never had any complained regarding build quality. Maybe I'm just not a very experienced drummer, but I found the 5000 level to have passed that "I can tell the difference enough to justify the cost" line by a significant amount.



If it works, then it works. You may desire to upgrade some day, who knows.

Personally, I dislike both the 3000 and the 5000, and I'm disappointed with the 9000. I've had so many problems with my 9000 pair. The first shaft literally fell apart, second one came with jammed screws at the shaft-extension, board adjustment on the right pedal has worn out for no apparent reason and the latency of the slave pedal is off the charts no matter how the pedals are aligned.

In fact, all my DW hardware is shite. I have their flagship snare stand, impossible to balance, and the basket itself won't fasten properly. I have their flagship throne, had to ditch that as the insane wobble gave me back pain. And I have a cymbal stand from them that barely holds an 18 inch crash without tilting.


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## TedEH (Feb 4, 2019)

The only thing I found about the 3000 is that they sort of felt "slower" than the 5000s, but I think that was owing more to the way they had been adjusted, and the fact that the 5000 has some kind of offset thing going on (the "accelerator" version maybe?).


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