# Hughes & Kettner Black Spirit 200 - Bionic 200W cute little monster



## Constructivist (Sep 7, 2018)

Have you seen this thing? They just came out with this today! 2 to 200 watt and loaded with goodies. What do ya all think? It will probably cost a quadrillion.

http://hughes-and-kettner.com/products/spirit/black-spirit-200/

There is a hilarious promotional video at the end. Amplifighters! I still miss the old street fighter days.


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## Wolfhorsky (Sep 7, 2018)

I dunno. SS amp with magic gimmick is now priced higher than very many proper tube amps.... I don’t get it. I know it has lots of features, but to my ear it sounds stiff on h&k vids. Time will tell if it’s good.


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 7, 2018)

Wolfhorsky said:


> I dunno. SS amp with magic gimmick is now priced higher than very many proper tube amps.... I don’t get it. I know it has lots of features, but to my ear it sounds stiff on h&k vids. Time will tell if it’s good.



Over here, in the US, it's priced pretty competitively, which is surprising. 

It's coming up as ~$800 from Sweetwater. The only tube amps in that range are either sub-30 watt mini heads and some stripped down, so-so 50 watt heads. It's the same price as the Yamaha THR100 2-channel and cheaper than ho-hum Positive Grid stuff.

As long as it's not awful or difficult to dial in, I can see this being competitive. But we'll see.


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## Wolfhorsky (Sep 7, 2018)

Nice. Oh, today the price droped to 700-ish €.
Maybe it will prove us, that non-modeling ss amp can be good.


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 7, 2018)

Wolfhorsky said:


> Maybe it will prove us, that non-modeling ss amp can be good.



I feel that has already been proven, but okay.


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## Constructivist (Sep 7, 2018)

What is the story behind the spirit tone generator thingy? Is there a new technology around it?
The price is indeed surprisingly good.


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## TGN (Sep 7, 2018)

Looks interesting. If it sounds decent it should be a very flexible and practical tool.


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## narad (Sep 7, 2018)

Constructivist said:


> What is the story behind the spirit tone generator thingy? Is there a new technology around it?



Cutting-edge marketing technology.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 7, 2018)

H&K usually make killer SS amps, so this might be a really solid amp.


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## KnightBrolaire (Sep 7, 2018)

some cool ideas all smashed together into one package. The amplifighter video was funny. I'd have no use for but it looks like another great option for people looking for feature laden amps.


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## Wolfhorsky (Sep 7, 2018)

MaxOfMetal said:


> I feel that has already been proven, but okay.


Oh, kay. YMMV. I like sag of tube poweramp or at least modelled one.


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## Constructivist (Sep 10, 2018)

Wolfhorsky said:


> Oh, kay. YMMV. I like sag of tube poweramp or at least modelled one.


Yup! I guess that is a unique feature and really comes in handy for all bedroom warriors that record at low volumes.


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## Ben Pinkus (Sep 10, 2018)

Yeah this is interesting, seems like H&K trying to do a more upmarket Boss katana? 

Sounds from the vids are pretty cool, would consider getting one as a commutable amp where I wouldn't need a big board as well. Will keep my eyes open for these


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## lewis (Sep 10, 2018)

Nothing sounds and feels like a tube amp except a tube amp.
Kempers and axe fxs get the closest and are killer units for all in one soloutions especially as live the crowd wont tell whats tube or not.

In a finished mix it doesnt matter now either
But to get a SS amp like this and pay more than a real tube amp (which will sound better) and a similar amount to a kemper/axe fx doesnt make sense either imo.

Like, who is their market?.

Confused tube amp owners who dont own one of the big 3 existing modelling products?


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 10, 2018)

lewis said:


> Nothing sounds and feels like a tube amp except a tube amp.
> Kempers and axe fxs get the closest and are killer units for all in one soloutions especially as live the crowd wont tell whats tube or not.
> 
> In a finished mix it doesnt matter now either
> ...



Are there any _good_ tube amps _under_ $800 _new_?


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## Vyn (Sep 10, 2018)

Being able to turn off the built-in cab sim is an amazing and underrated feature. Quite a few current amps would be that much better off with that feature (looking at you 6505MH).


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## Shoeless_jose (Sep 10, 2018)

Looks like they just made the Grandmeister Deluxe solid state. And an H and K without glowing tubes aint right.


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## Wolfhorsky (Sep 10, 2018)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Are there any _good_ tube amps _under_ $800 _new_?


PRS MT15


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## Andromalia (Sep 10, 2018)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Are there any _good_ tube amps _under_ $800 _new_?



Well, yes, unless if you define "good" by "lots of watts". I'd easily rate my tubemeister 18 as "good". That's the only point of comparison I have since it's the only amp I have left.


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## lewis (Sep 10, 2018)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Are there any _good_ tube amps _under_ $800 _new_?



*Randall RD45H Diavlo 45 Watt*
*Fortin Designed*
*£547 1 left in stock*

*https://www.bax-shop.co.uk/amp-head...Iuk7dzS7fpXVWqdFACsMdxvjmJxSHFOhoCGwgQAvD_BwE*

Edit: Thomann have them at £543


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## KnightBrolaire (Sep 10, 2018)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Are there any _good_ tube amps _under_ $800 _new_?


randal diavlo 100 is 600$ bstock on reverb. also eod88 is like 800$ new


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 10, 2018)

Wolfhorsky said:


> PRS MT15





Andromalia said:


> Well, yes, unless if you define "good" by "lots of watts". I'd easily rate my tubemeister 18 as "good". That's the only point of comparison I have since it's the only amp I have left.





lewis said:


> *Randall RD45H Diavlo 45 Watt*
> *Fortin Designed*
> *£547 1 left in stock*
> 
> ...





KnightBrolaire said:


> randal diavlo 100 is 600$ bstock on reverb. also eod88 is like 800$ new



So some lunchboxes and ho-hum Randalls.


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## lewis (Sep 10, 2018)

MaxOfMetal said:


> So some lunchboxes and ho-hum Randalls.


Yes because this small SS amp from these guys isnt Ho Hum itself? Haha.

Hilarious thinking a tube amp designed by Mike fortin is run of the mill hahah


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 10, 2018)

lewis said:


> Yes because this small SS amp from these guys isnt Ho Hum itself? Haha.
> 
> Hilarious thinking a tube amp designed by Mike fortin is run of the mill hahah



So you've played it? Also, how is 200 solid state watts "small"? I mean, everyone seems to be loving thier small <150 watt pedal power amps these days. 

Also, which of these Randalls have you played? The Diavlo line is nothing special, even the bigger heads. They sit at retailers and gather dust, just ask Randall. The EOD is kind of cool, but a one truck pony on its own. 

I stand by my original comment: if this is good it's going to be a competitive product at it's price, and my second one: it's not like there is a bevy of good all tube heads at this price point.


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## lewis (Sep 10, 2018)

MaxOfMetal said:


> So you've played it? Also, how is 200 solid state watts "small"? I mean, everyone seems to be loving thier small <150 watt pedal power amps these days.
> 
> Also, which of these Randalls have you played? The Diavlo line is nothing special, even the bigger heads. They sit at retailers and gather dust, just ask Randall. The EOD is kind of cool, but a one truck pony on its own.
> 
> I stand by my original comment: if this is good it's going to be a competitive product at it's price, and my second one: it's not like there is a bevy of good all tube heads at this price point.



Meant small in physical size, not power.

I will stick to my Ax8, Kemper and Randall T2 amp rather than this personally.


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 10, 2018)

lewis said:


> Meant small in physical size, not power.
> 
> I will stick to my Ax8, Kemper and Randall T2 amp rather than this personally.



I'd think the small form factor is a bonus. 

Yeah, I'm not ditching my Axe or Kemper either, but the more cool non-tube stuff on the market the better.


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## lewis (Sep 10, 2018)

MaxOfMetal said:


> I'd think the small form factor is a bonus.
> 
> Yeah, I'm not ditching my Axe or Kemper either, but the more cool non-tube stuff on the market the better.


Yeah it wasnt a slight on it. I didnt mean for "small" to come across derogatory. More just describing it. I.e

The entire thing, size aside, just seems middle of the road for me.

Like it seems like an idea that is 10 years behind now or something.
Unless im a H&K fan, i just wouldnt be interested in this considering the alternatives that are just a little more cash.

Anyway. Lets agree to disagree.
+1 on owning both an Axe and a Kemper too. Well played.


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## Bearitone (Sep 10, 2018)

Stoked to see a big company making a solid state amp that isn’t just an after thought or bedroom practice amp.

The orange crush amps seemed like more of an after thought once i actually played one.

I think would still take an AMT SH-100r or a used ISP Theta Head over this though


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## GunpointMetal (Sep 10, 2018)

Solid-State, Limited Modeling, if this was made by any other company it would be priced the same as a Spider head


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## LiveOVErdrive (Sep 10, 2018)

I really want to see more solid state amps out there. I'm of the belief that they can sound every bit as good as tube. Hell, jfets behave almost identically to triode tubes. 

I guess I'll just keep building my own for now.


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## Elric (Sep 10, 2018)

MaxOfMetal said:


> So some lunchboxes and ho-hum Randalls.


Fortunately, those of use who live in the real world do not have to buy new. So this thing does have to compete against stuff you can buy used:
https://www.guitarcenter.com/Used/Amplifiers-Effects.gc?Ntt=6505+ head&Ns=r#pageName=used-page&N=18353+1076+1087&Ntt=6505+ head&Nao=0&recsPerPage=30&postalCode=78749&radius=100&profileCountryCode=US&profileCurrencyCode=USD

https://www.guitarcenter.com/Used/Amplifiers-Effects.gc?Ntt=5150 head&Ns=r#pageName=used-page&N=18353+1076+1087&Ntt=5150 head&Nao=0&recsPerPage=30&postalCode=78749&radius=100&profileCountryCode=US&profileCurrencyCode=USD

https://www.guitarcenter.com/Used/G...ead&postalCode=78749&radius=100#narrowSideBar


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 10, 2018)

Elric said:


> Fortunately, those of use who live in the real world do not have to buy new. So this thing does have to compete against stuff you can buy used:
> https://www.guitarcenter.com/Used/Amplifiers-Effects.gc?Ntt=6505+ head&Ns=r#pageName=used-page&N=18353+1076+1087&Ntt=6505+ head&Nao=0&recsPerPage=30&postalCode=78749&radius=100&profileCountryCode=US&profileCurrencyCode=USD
> 
> https://www.guitarcenter.com/Used/Amplifiers-Effects.gc?Ntt=5150 head&Ns=r#pageName=used-page&N=18353+1076+1087&Ntt=5150 head&Nao=0&recsPerPage=30&postalCode=78749&radius=100&profileCountryCode=US&profileCurrencyCode=USD
> ...



Well, in the real world, these will eventually be available used too.


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## Elric (Sep 10, 2018)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Well, in the real world, these will eventually be available used too.


Fair enough. Someone has to buy them new first for there to be any decent supply, though.


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 10, 2018)

Elric said:


> Fair enough. Someone has to buy them new first for there to be any decent supply, though.



Or, if they're as bad as the folks who've never played them think, they'll eventually be blown out and liquidated.


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## SnoozyWyrm (Sep 10, 2018)

I don't think this is going to compete with the "big 3" in any way. Everyone shouting this down over its price failed to take into account the gazzilion features this thing has. It's an all-in-one portable solution for a gigging musician (one that might be playing different gigs/setlists every week). I'd say it is comparable to the Katana head, with more useful stuff added on top.


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## Shoeless_jose (Sep 10, 2018)

H and K red box is pretty awesome this is an okay tool im sure it will have a market.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 10, 2018)

So can we like
Actually have fucking demos in this thread?


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## lewis (Sep 10, 2018)

SnoozyWyrm said:


> I don't think this is going to compete with the "big 3" in any way. Everyone shouting this down over its price failed to take into account the gazzilion features this thing has. It's an all-in-one portable solution for a gigging musician (one that might be playing different gigs/setlists every week). I'd say it is comparable to the Katana head, with more useful stuff added on top.



So this compact all in one, SS, gigging solution from H&K wont be trying to compete with the big 3 all in one, SS, compact, gigging solutions?

It really is a confused product then.
Hahaha


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## Bearitone (Sep 10, 2018)

lewis said:


> So this compact all in one, SS, gigging solution from H&K wont be trying to compete with the big 3 all in one, SS, compact, gigging solutions?
> 
> It really is a confused product then.
> Hahaha



Um no because this isn’t a modeler or profiler. It’s an SS Head with digital effects built in.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 10, 2018)

kindsage said:


> Um no because this isn’t a modeler or profiler. It’s an SS Head with digital effects built in.



Pretty much. It's a solid state version of their Grandmeister.


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## Bearitone (Sep 10, 2018)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Pretty much. It's a solid state version of their Grandmeister.



Just as far as the layout? Or the actual sound of each channel too?


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 10, 2018)

kindsage said:


> Just as far as the layout? Or the actual sound of each channel too?



I was going with the features. No clue on sound. I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to match the Grandmeister tone-wise as well.


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## MASS DEFECT (Sep 10, 2018)

Man. I hope somebody put this against the Katana 100 Head. But for the price, the Kat has it beat. And it is pretty loud on its own too. (considering you use the proper cab)


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 10, 2018)

MASS DEFECT said:


> Man. I hope somebody put this against the Katana 100 Head. But for the price, the Kat has it beat. And it is pretty loud on its own too. (considering you use the proper cab)


Seems like these are for different sections of the market. The Katana for beginners/semi-pro, while this is priced more towards the semi-pro/pro market. It's gonna be around $800+ it looks like.


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## Shoeless_jose (Sep 10, 2018)

lewis said:


> So this compact all in one, SS, gigging solution from H&K wont be trying to compete with the big 3 all in one, SS, compact, gigging solutions?
> 
> It really is a confused product then.
> Hahaha




The big 3 are Helix, Fractal and Kemper... none of which are targeted by this.


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## lewis (Sep 10, 2018)

Why dont people understand what i mean?.

A solid state, all in one amp is the same regardless what form it takes.

A powered kemper is still essentially a SS all in one amp lol.


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## Wolfhorsky (Sep 10, 2018)

This head would be more tempting in the pedal format imho. More compact, no additional footswitch. Only 2 cables: from the guitar and to the speaker. BT via iPad can be used to make changes without the necessity to bow down.
My


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## KnightBrolaire (Sep 10, 2018)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> So can we like
> Actually have fucking demos in this thread?



sounds good. guitarists have so many good options anymore


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## MASS DEFECT (Sep 10, 2018)

lewis said:


> Why dont people understand what i mean?.
> 
> A solid state, all in one amp is the same regardless what form it takes.
> 
> A powered kemper is still essentially a SS all in one amp lol.



I don't think they are all the same. You have to account for pricing, feature set, and target market.


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## Vyn (Sep 10, 2018)

lewis said:


> Why dont people understand what i mean?.
> 
> A solid state, all in one amp is the same regardless what form it takes.
> 
> A powered kemper is still essentially a SS all in one amp lol.



I think the big thing here is that this isn't a solid state amp. It's using mostly analog circuits (opamps etc), not digital (transistor city). Big difference from a technical standpoint.


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## Bearitone (Sep 10, 2018)

lewis said:


> Why dont people understand what i mean?.
> 
> A solid state, all in one amp is the same regardless what form it takes.
> 
> A powered kemper is still essentially a SS all in one amp lol.



The amp section is all analog SS. Analog means no computing of any kind. No processor. At least on the amp section.

Catching my drift here?


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## LiveOVErdrive (Sep 10, 2018)

Vyn said:


> I think the big thing here is that this isn't a solid state amp. It's using mostly analog circuits (opamps etc), not digital (transistor city). Big difference from a technical standpoint.


It is solid state. Opamps are solid state (transistor). It's just analog and not digital.


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## Vyn (Sep 10, 2018)

LiveOVErdrive said:


> It is solid state. Opamps are solid state (transistor). It's just analog and not digital.



Opamps aren't always solid state, they can be manufactured from valves or transistors.

In any case, my statement was incorrect: The Spirit is indeed Solid State, just analog instead of digital.


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 10, 2018)

lewis said:


> Why dont people understand what i mean?.
> 
> A solid state, all in one amp is the same regardless what form it takes.
> 
> A powered kemper is still essentially a SS all in one amp lol.



The only thing this has in common with the "big three" is that it lacks tubes.

The form factor, features and price point are vastly different. 

You're basically saying that a Strandberg Boden is competing directly with a Steinberger M, Gittler and Toone. They're all headless, but vastly different takes that are marketed and priced accordingly.


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## Hollowway (Sep 11, 2018)

MaxOfMetal said:


> The only thing this has in common with the "big three" is that it lacks tubes.
> 
> The form factor, features and price point are vastly different.
> 
> You're basically saying that a Strandberg Boden is competing directly with a Steinberger M, Gittler and Toone. They're all headless, but vastly different takes that are marketed and priced accordingly.



Yes, and remember that Lewis is the guy who bought the Chinese Grote headless guitar because he wanted to see if he would eventually like a strandberg, so he may well think they're all in direct competition. (Lol, sorry Lewis. I had to get that dig in there!)

But, I will say that I wholeheartedly disagree that SS amps cannot sound like tube amps. Especially for metal. We all talk about preamp distortion, miles of power amp headroom, no tube sag, SS rectification, etc., to get a tight tone. And then say a SS amp can't cut it? It makes no sense. Now, I like Fryettes, and will buy them, knowing they're tubes, because I can't get a SS amp that will sound just like it. But it's because of the specific tone it has, not just that it has tubes. I suppose the argument would be different if we were playing music types that required power amp distortion and sag. But this group of us generally don't.

At any rate, I'm not going to buy this, because I don't really need another amp, but I am surprised by how many people are saying it won't sound as good as these <$800 tube amps. Especially when we could hop over to another thread and we'd all be talking about how much these same s<$800 tube amps suck compared to their big brothers with more wattage.


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## Constructivist (Sep 11, 2018)

Hollowway said:


> At any rate, I'm not going to buy this, because I don't really need another amp, but I am surprised by how many people are saying it won't sound as good as these <$800 tube amps. Especially when we could hop over to another thread and we'd all be talking about how much these same s<$800 tube amps suck compared to their big brothers with more wattage.



Dat tru bro...


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## narad (Sep 11, 2018)

Hollowway said:


> At any rate, I'm not going to buy this, because I don't really need another amp, but I am surprised by how many people are saying it won't sound as good as these <$800 tube amps. Especially when we could hop over to another thread and we'd all be talking about how much these same s<$800 tube amps suck compared to their big brothers with more wattage.



Yea, when it comes to metal, EL-84 amps are tube amps in the worst way possible. I'd much rather have solid state in that price range.


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## Sogradde (Sep 11, 2018)

Weird stuff. It's only slightly cheaper than a Helix LT and about the same as any lunchbox head + some multi FX. 
Can't think of any practical reason to own one of these, unless you're specifically looking for the H&K sound.


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## Aliascent (Sep 11, 2018)

Sogradde said:


> Can't think of any practical reason to own one of these, unless you're specifically looking for the H&K sound.



That would be a good enough reason for me. I just hope it can get as mean as a [tube/grand] Meister could, even on the lower power settings. If it can, that would be my ideal appartment / low volume / practice rig.

It looks good too, like most H&K amps (except the tube series).


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## lewis (Sep 11, 2018)

Sogradde said:


> Weird stuff. It's only slightly cheaper than a Helix LT and about the same as any lunchbox head + some multi FX.
> Can't think of any practical reason to own one of these, unless you're specifically looking for the H&K sound.


BOOOOOOOM

finally someone else gets my gripes.
Excatly man. Well said.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 11, 2018)

With the Helix you'll still need a power amp and cab if you want something similar to this. With any other lunchbox head youll still need the multi FX and most likely some kinda MIDI relay device if you want the programability. This is meant to be an all-in-one thing just like the Grandmeister.


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## LiveOVErdrive (Sep 11, 2018)

Seems to be designed to be a convenient head for gigging.

Unfortunately I think it might be a bit to pricey to beat out the usual stigma against solid state gear.


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## Sogradde (Sep 11, 2018)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> With the Helix you'll still need a power amp and cab if you want something similar to this. With any other lunchbox head youll still need the multi FX and most likely some kinda MIDI relay device if you want the programability. This is meant to be an all-in-one thing just like the Grandmeister.


The H&K head needs a cab aswell so that's not a good point for it. 
Also, as far as I can tell, the H&K is priced at 800€, the optional(!) MIDI controller ist priced at 166€. That's almost 1000€, which gets me almost any common lunchbox head with a POD HD 500X. That setup will easily blow the H&K out of the water.

I'm not trying to shit on H&K, I just fail to see the market.


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## LiveOVErdrive (Sep 11, 2018)

Sogradde said:


> The H&K head needs a cab aswell so that's not a good point for it.
> Also, as far as I can tell, the H&K is priced at 800€, the optional(!) MIDI controller ist priced at 166€. That's almost 1000€, which gets me almost any common lunchbox head with a POD HD 500X. That setup will easily blow the H&K out of the water.
> 
> I'm not trying to shit on H&K, I just fail to see the market.



Not quite a fair comparison. It is a lunchbox sized head but it's 200W.

Also AFAIK nobody has compared it to a tubed head with a pod HD so.... It might sound massively better. 

Selling point seems to mostly be that it is a one-piece head that's easy to carry around and has plenty of output power. Good for gigging.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 11, 2018)

Sogradde said:


> The H&K head needs a cab aswell so that's not a good point for it.
> Also, as far as I can tell, the H&K is priced at 800€, the optional(!) MIDI controller ist priced at 166€. That's almost 1000€, which gets me almost any common lunchbox head with a POD HD 500X. That setup will easily blow the H&K out of the water.
> 
> I'm not trying to shit on H&K, I just fail to see the market.



You still need the power amp with the Helix. And you don't need the included footswitch. If we're including used prices, yo can get any other MIDI footswitch to work for it 2nd hand. 

Also, we're still saying anything else will blow it out the water...

Have you guys even tried it yet?  

It's just weird seeing so much against this amp that no one's tried except for a few youtube """""""influencers"""""""""".

Speaking of that, 200w solid state ain't nothing to sneeze at. That's loud as fuck and can easily be gigged with. And Hughes and Kettner makes great SS amps. Just because it's solid state doesn't mean it's gonna sound like that shitty Fender Frontman, Marshall MG, or Gorilla 10-watt amp you used when you started off.


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## Trashgreen (Sep 11, 2018)




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## Trashgreen (Sep 11, 2018)




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## Vyn (Sep 11, 2018)

It's worth noting that yes you still need a cab, but if you're on a budget that V30 2x12 HB cab is only $100-$200US. Helix LT still needs a cab AND a power amp or a PA system to go through.


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## Hollowway (Sep 11, 2018)

Is H&K generally not well regarded around here? I’m surprised at all the skepticism and negativity for an amp that hasn’t even been heard by most people. To me, the selling points here are that it weighs essentially nothing, it can go FRFR standard cab, it can be used to practice, record, or gig at a stadium, is basically a powersoaked amp, with the “sag” control, and is from a well respected company. I would think this site would eat it up. We get all excited about $300 solid state preamp pedals put into a 100 watt power amp with no tube distortion, but bring up an amp like this, and suddenly everyone is into real tube tone. It’s just weird. Maybe people are getting this mixed up with modelers? I mean, I fail to see how people can’t see who this appeals to. I can’t see who it DOESN’T appeal to.


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## Shoeless_jose (Sep 11, 2018)

Hollowway said:


> Is H&K generally not well regarded around here? I’m surprised at all the skepticism and negativity for an amp that hasn’t even been heard by most people. To me, the selling points here are that it weighs essentially nothing, it can go FRFR standard cab, it can be used to practice, record, or gig at a stadium, is basically a powersoaked amp, with the “sag” control, and is from a well respected company. I would think this site would eat it up. We get all excited about $300 solid state preamp pedals put into a 100 watt power amp with no tube distortion, but bring up an amp like this, and suddenly everyone is into real tube tone. It’s just weird. Maybe people are getting this mixed up with modelers? I mean, I fail to see how people can’t see who this appeals to. I can’t see who it DOESN’T appeal to.



THANK YOU!!!! somebody gets it!

For me I'd rather get the tube version (Grandmeister Deluxe) but this thing still is very impressive. I don't need an amp at all but either of these looks sweet, and honestly a solid state one might be better when I think about it, would be nice to have an amp that I don't need to worry about tube maitenance and such on. not sure why its compared to a modelling amp??? Maybe because you can save presets or something.

Either way H and K make some pretty kick ass amps, maybe because they don't have a channel that emulates a 5150 or an extreme mid boost people aren't take these seriously but it looks like a good product from a company that puts out quality shit, if it wouldn't cost me like 5k I would grab a Tri Amp in a heartbeat.


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## eightsixboy (Sep 12, 2018)

lewis said:


> Why dont people understand what i mean?.
> 
> A solid state, all in one amp is the same regardless what form it takes.
> 
> A powered kemper is still essentially a SS all in one amp lol.



Lol wat?

Kemper is digital, so are Helix and axe FX. Not sure what you mean by all the same?



lewis said:


> BOOOOOOOM
> 
> finally someone else gets my gripes.
> Excatly man. Well said.



What's the point comparing it to a Helix when its completely different technology?

You could apply that logic to anything. Gee why do people spend 3k on Kempers when you can buy a real amp. Or why do people buy Helix's when you can buy a lunch box tube amp.

There is a market for everything. In the case of this new H&K its the fact its an all analog solid state, updated red box, midi controlled, light weight and also presumably decent quality.

I'm not even a H&K fan but at the price its at its very appealing. What else is there for similar money that's also powered, so excluding pedal boards. DSL range, lower end Fenders, the new Marshall Origin, cheaply made amps like the Randall you mentioned. So what if its "fortin designed", I had a Diablo 20 and yea it was an ok amp but it did one thing well, high gain and that's it. Your comparing apples to oranges. One trick cheap ponies vs new technology.


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 12, 2018)

Hollowway said:


> Is H&K generally not well regarded around here?



I don't think they're on a lot of folks' radar here. Thier US distribution isn't great, but better than its been in years prior.

More folks on here probably know them for thier smaller lunchbox amps than thier flagship Triamp, which can get very brutal, but it ain't cheap.

They haven't done a stripped down (read: cheaper) high gain amp over 50 watts in some time, so I can see how folks around here, the typical 5150/Recto/Marshall crowd, wouldn't have much experience with them.


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## narad (Sep 12, 2018)

Sounds great in the official demo! Best SS I think I've heard so far. Oddly the high gain was flakey and reminded me of my AMT SS amp, but the clean/crunch/lead were great. Then all the plug-ins are doing great high-gain and flakey on the rest of it -- buy both and you're all set.


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## Hollowway (Sep 12, 2018)

Anyone seen any metal demonstrations in any of the available clips yet? I’m only seeing hard rock or blues in what I’ve watched. And I’m too lazy to watch ‘em all.


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## Sogradde (Sep 12, 2018)

As I said, I don't wish them any ill, I just don't see the point of it. I already listed some more or less better alternatives in that price range.


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## narad (Sep 12, 2018)

^^ dude's having an on-going conversation with himself about how a POD is as good as this :-/


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## Sogradde (Sep 12, 2018)

Two people quoted me since my last post and one person commented on a post that was directed at me.
Also nice reading comprehension bro!


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## TheBloodstained (Sep 12, 2018)

I like it  I'm actually considering saving some money and then buy one 

I've been longing for a Hughes & Kettner amp ever since I borrowed a sweet little combo for a gig back in my high school days. The Tubemeister and Grandmeister look sweet, but I can't justify a full-on valve amp for my current use, which is mostly bedroom playing and occasional recording (this is why I settled for a used Marshall MG100HDFX when I bought an amp last year).
The Black Spirit seems perfect for my needs 

Also, I do get horrible "option paralysis" from my Line6 Pod HD Pro. I want something more simple with real knobs for dialing in my tone. I've grown so tired of digital interfaces.
In the demo video with Rabea and Josh they quickly dial in the basic tones I long for - sparkly clean, heavy crunch and thick gain. The built-in effects offer all I need too.

I haven't put my current rig up for sale YET, but I'm seriously considering it


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## Andromalia (Sep 12, 2018)

Hollowway said:


> Is H&K generally not well regarded around here? I’m surprised at all the skepticism and negativity for an amp that hasn’t even been heard by most people.



I guess it has a lot to do with the pricing. It is still a solid stats 800$ amp head, that's 200ish more expensive than a boss katana... WITH a cabinet.
I checked Thomann and nothing reaches this price point for a SS amp head.

That said, H&K isn't a "cheap" brand to begin with. The Triamp is around 2K5 here in europe.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 12, 2018)

Andromalia said:


> I guess it has a lot to do with the pricing. It is still a solid stats 800$ amp head, that's 200ish more expensive than a boss katana... WITH a cabinet.
> I checked Thomann and nothing reaches this price point for a SS amp head.
> 
> That said, H&K isn't a "cheap" brand to begin with. The Triamp is around 2K5 here in europe.



Good solid state usually is expensive. The higher end SS Randall stuff, the ISP theta line, and AMT's Stonehead line ran aroind the same price, or was more expensive. And then you add the onboard DI, actually tweakable effects, and the MIDI programability. 

I just find it funny that you have people here that keep touting digital stuff like it's the end all be all, yet are still shitting on a solid state head.  I love my Helix LT, but I still love my solid state amps as well. Both can sound excellent if you can design them right, and H&K is usually great with AS tech.


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## Andromalia (Sep 12, 2018)

A 8100 head is 200€.


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## I play music (Sep 12, 2018)

Hollowway said:


> Is H&K generally not well regarded around here? I’m surprised at all the skepticism and negativity for an amp that hasn’t even been heard by most people. To me, the selling points here are that it weighs essentially nothing, it can go FRFR standard cab, it can be used to practice, record, or gig at a stadium, is basically a powersoaked amp, with the “sag” control, and is from a well respected company. I would think this site would eat it up. We get all excited about $300 solid state preamp pedals put into a 100 watt power amp with no tube distortion, but bring up an amp like this, and suddenly everyone is into real tube tone. It’s just weird. Maybe people are getting this mixed up with modelers? I mean, I fail to see how people can’t see who this appeals to. I can’t see who it DOESN’T appeal to.


The product would probably appeal to me but the marketing does not.


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## Bearitone (Sep 12, 2018)

I play music said:


> The product would probably appeal to me but the marketing does not.



Agreed. The product seems cool but, the marketing is pretty corny. I think Orange is the only amp brand I’ve seen that does “fun” advertising without being corny.

I also don’t like watching demos where it’s two youtubers saying how great a product is while they’re being paid to say how great it is. Is it bad that i don’t want to hear their opinion during a demo? I just want specs, info, and great clips.


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## LiveOVErdrive (Sep 12, 2018)

There is some modern metal / djenty stuff in the second half of this video.



This amp actually sounds pretty tasty. I kind of want one of these things.


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## lewis (Sep 12, 2018)

To add, i have nothing against H&K.

If anything its the opposite.
Best guitar tone ive ever head live from my local venue, was a dude using a H&K going direct with the Redbox thing.
Had an 7 string ibanez and was playing like Symphony x style.

Tone was unreal.


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## MASS DEFECT (Sep 12, 2018)

The true test of these kind of amps is if they can at least get that same sort of loudness like a tube amp and cut through the live mix. I know 200 watts is 200 watts solid state or vs tube but there's some difference with the frequencies, sag, and headroom. I wonder how clean is the headroom if a guy is driving more than one 4x12 like that marketing pic they have in their website.


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## LiveOVErdrive (Sep 12, 2018)

I like the fact that it has a GOOD cab sim onboard. Setting up a gig would just be plug it into a cab for your own monitoring, run a cable out the back to front of house. Don't have to mess with mic placement or anything.


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## 0rimus (Sep 12, 2018)

I've always been a huge solid state fan

I got excited about the Yamaha THR100hd (the metal tones just weren't there) and that was about $800

The Vox MVX150H with nutube tech is about $800 but the feature set is a bit limited compared against the Black Spirit 200

But here's the best part: you go to get on plane. Your stupid gigantic 7 string guitar in a nice case takes your 1 checked bagggage spot.

You'll figure out a cabinet situation when you get there ( or go direct, or use headphones)

So what do you do for an amp and effects?

Remove 1 pair of pants and 2 t-shirts from your carry on
Or 2 pairs of pants 
Or 3 rolled up t-shirts

Slam the Black Spirit in dere, boom.
Go anywhere. But seriously, 8 pounds and the damn thing looks as small as my Katana Air

I still own and love my Crate Powerblock so... lol, right up my alley


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## LiveOVErdrive (Sep 12, 2018)

0rimus said:


> I've always been a huge *solid state fan*


Like this?


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## eightsixboy (Sep 12, 2018)

kindsage said:


> Agreed. The product seems cool but, the marketing is pretty corny. I think Orange is the only amp brand I’ve seen that does “fun” advertising without being corny.
> 
> I also don’t like watching demos where it’s two youtubers saying how great a product is while they’re being paid to say how great it is. Is it bad that i don’t want to hear their opinion during a demo? I just want specs, info, and great clips.



Unfortunately that's just YouTube now. Like how all the youtubers got the product at the same time as well.

When/if Henning does a proper review on his channel that will be more realistic I think.

I wonder if this thing is actually just a Nutube tyoe of thing? Funny how its very "secret" and hush hush.


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## LiveOVErdrive (Sep 12, 2018)

I'm looking forward to hearing Ola make it sound like his Randall Satan.


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## MASS DEFECT (Sep 12, 2018)

You gotta admit though, "Spirit Tone Generator" sounds too cheesy.


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## cwhitey2 (Sep 12, 2018)

This thread sums up what I love about this forum. 

I personally love H and K amps and have zero issues with solid state amps. As said before, if Fryette was solid state I would still own one... but no one else has that tone.


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## Hollowway (Sep 12, 2018)

The other thing I like about SS heads, much like tubes, is there’s no silicon and software to worry about. I say that because if a tube head breaks 3 years from now, you can have it repaired. But no one is going to be able to repair an Axe FX 30 years from now, unless they can find some used chips to plop back in. I know that doesn’t make a difference to someone currently in a band, etc. But for me, I am no longer gigging, so I just want to make sure I don’t buy something that will be obsolete in the not too distant future.


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## Hollowway (Sep 12, 2018)

LiveOVErdrive said:


> There is some modern metal / djenty stuff in the second half of this video.
> 
> 
> 
> This amp actually sounds pretty tasty. I kind of want one of these things.




Well, that was weird. I’ve been on the fence about buying the Victory Kraken for, like, a year, and I go to watch this video, and there’s Rabea again.  

Comparing those two (the VK and the H&K) I definitely prefer the Kraken. But, when they scrolled through the 8 cab settings on this video, I kind of had an unsettling feeling. Those cab types made a bigger impact on tone than any other setting, except the channel. Which means I really gotta think more seriously about the cabs I’m using, rather than just the amps.


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## eightsixboy (Sep 12, 2018)

Sounds pretty good.


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## Hollowway (Sep 12, 2018)

^ I’m American. If I started talking really loudly and slowly, do you think he’ll speak back to me in English? 

That video does sound pretty good. I think I’d need to hear this in person to really judge, but it sure is a cool little amp!


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## Seabeast2000 (Sep 12, 2018)

I won't be convinced of its viability until Ice T's ad drops.


eightsixboy said:


> Sounds pretty good.



Hey wasn't that the same guy jamming with Rabea?


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## Musiscience (Sep 13, 2018)

I love H&K since i owned a Triamp for many years. They usually make some great gear. 

After hearing the demos, I really want to try it once they hit the stores. This has all I am looking for: solid state so no tubes to replace, 200W with the possibility to soak the power to gig or play at home. A lot of effects, a noise gate, a boost for each channel, redbox, sag selector and MIDI function makes this something I am very likely to buy as a main rig. Not to mention how good and responsive it sounds on these videos.


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## Andromalia (Sep 13, 2018)

Hollowway said:


> The other thing I like about SS heads, much like tubes, is there’s no silicon and software to worry about. I say that because if a tube head breaks 3 years from now, you can have it repaired. But no one is going to be able to repair an Axe FX 30 years from now, unless they can find some used chips to plop back in. I know that doesn’t make a difference to someone currently in a band, etc. But for me, I am no longer gigging, so I just want to make sure I don’t buy something that will be obsolete in the not too distant future.



To be honest, "silicon failure" is more about moving parts than chips themselves. The axe II doesn't seem to have condensers, so the only real part prone to failure over time is the fan, or, possibly, the screen. My C64 still boots fine and it's *old*. Computers do last a very long time provided you don't submit them to excessive heat or moisture.


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## Wolfhorsky (Sep 13, 2018)

That SAG control is something intersting for me .


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## B.M.F. (Sep 14, 2018)

Do you guys think this H&K would be the best option for brutal death metal shred and slam... Have been intrigued by their amps for a long time and wondering which one is the best for extreme high-gain.
I love solid state amps especially since they are a different texture than just what about everyone else uses. But this one has a decent clean-semi-dirty sound.


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## KnightBrolaire (Sep 14, 2018)

BlasphemyMadeFlesh said:


> Do you guys think this H&K would be the best option for brutal death metal shred and slam... Have been intrigued by their amps for a long time and wondering which one is the best for extreme high-gain.
> I love solid state amps especially since they are a different texture than just what about everyone else uses. But this one has a decent clean-semi-dirty sound.


Cradle of filth uses a full pedal rig with no real amps iirc, just about anything can be used for death metal provided it has enough gain on tap..


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## Shoeless_jose (Sep 15, 2018)

BlasphemyMadeFlesh said:


> Do you guys think this H&K would be the best option for brutal death metal shred and slam... Have been intrigued by their amps for a long time and wondering which one is the best for extreme high-gain.
> I love solid state amps especially since they are a different texture than just what about everyone else uses. But this one has a decent clean-semi-dirty sound.



I think the 200 watt solid state would actually be good for the brutal stuff.

Obviously the tri amp slays. But all their other stuff is all small bottle amps which i dont think have the head room needed to be fully brutal and keep clarity under extreme high gain, only John Browne made the Grandmeister sound evil although Devin Townsend put it too good use as well.

Ugh this amp intrigues me so much despite me having ZERO need for it


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## LiveOVErdrive (Sep 15, 2018)

Wolfhorsky said:


> That SAG control is something intersting for me .



Can get that effect by putting a compressor in your effects loop (or after your preamp/distortion pedal). I demo'd it in this video.


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## Wolfhorsky (Sep 15, 2018)

LiveOVErdrive said:


> Can get that effect by putting a compressor in your effects loop (or after your preamp/distortion pedal). I demo'd it in this video.



Yeah, i think that SAG gimmick is just a multi band compressor with predetermined settings.


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## LiveOVErdrive (Sep 15, 2018)

Wolfhorsky said:


> Yeah, i think that SAG gimmick is just a multi band compressor with predetermined settings.


Probably. Sounds great on the demo vids I've seen though so hey. Cool.

I've wanted to try making a pedal that simulates sag by having a push pull AB pair inside a preamp with an artificially saggy power supply (series resistor and cap). Basically a tiny power amp in a box as a preamp.


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## Bish0p34 (Sep 16, 2018)

Dineley said:


> I think the 200 watt solid state would actually be good for the brutal stuff.
> 
> Obviously the tri amp slays. But all their other stuff is all small bottle amps which i dont think have the head room needed to be fully brutal and keep clarity under extreme high gain, only John Browne made the Grandmeister sound evil although Devin Townsend put it too good use as well.
> 
> Ugh this amp intrigues me so much despite me having ZERO need for it




This guy gets a Grandmeister 40 to be pretty brutal. He uses it at band practice all the time too.


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## Shoeless_jose (Sep 16, 2018)

Bish0p34 said:


> This guy gets a Grandmeister 40 to be pretty brutal. He uses it at band practice all the time too.





Yeah I get that it can make the heavy sounds maybe I just don't like el84 amps cause it just doesn't quite do it for me, it definitely sound heavy just doesn't have the bit/ooomph that I crave and that my big heads give me, maybe I'm just spoiled, I'm sure the amp is perfectly capable just doesn't suit my tastes per say


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## BranchDavidian (Sep 19, 2018)

Its portable, light weight, and has an ultra gain channel. 

When its available, ill buy it. 

If it ends up sounding digital and shitty like a zoom multi effects pedal, ill return it. 

So who are they marketing it to?

Me. They are marketing it to me. 

I made a post a while back looking for a more portable alternative to a full sized half stack for death metal. The main suggestions were a rev g3/tightmetal pro + seymour duncan powerstage 170 or a 5150 3. 

I bought them both. The 5150 3 sounds as good as a full sized tube head, but is only slightly less of a chore to haul. The sd powerstage and preamp pedal are insanely easy to haul, but are slightly just lacking on tone. 

This amp would theoretically be the miracle head. Easy as hell to drag around with good enough tone to play next to a recto or powerball. IF it has the tone. 

Cant tell from the youtube videos. Everything sounds like a digitech pedal on youtube. 


The ultimate test will be to A-B this next to a kraken


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## mikah912 (Sep 19, 2018)

BranchDavidian said:


> Its portable, light weight, and has an ultra gain channel.
> 
> When its available, ill buy it.
> 
> ...



I like your perspective. SUPER interested to hear what you think once you get one.


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## katsumura78 (Oct 30, 2018)

Got one last night at a Hughes and Kettner event. Within 10 mins I knew I wasn’t leaving the store without it. It’s badass. 8 lbs, loud, headroom for days and a lot of tones on tap. They had a deal going too so it wasn’t a hard decision.


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## chris wallace (Dec 10, 2018)

I have the Grand Meister 40 Deluxe (paid 1099 with mark III controller) and the Black Spirit 200 (paid 699)-- the deluxe is easily dialed in seconds. The spirit is harder, but is more versatile. Which tone do i like best so far? hands down; the deluxe! The Spirit has so many possibilities- I have just not even scratched the surface- Between sag and cabinet selections- the tones are there.


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