# Bulking up?



## Deathbykidd (Apr 28, 2013)

So I am 17 and around 5'10 and weigh about 145 last time I weighed myself. I am really skinny and am looking for ways to bulk up. I'm just tired of seeing bones sticking out and want to gain some weight. I don't have any idea what my target weight is suppose to be based on my age and such. A few people said protein shakes should do it, but do they really work? I'm worried that I will gain too much bulk if I use it. Are there any other options? I'm trying to find where to start on all of this. Thanks for the help!


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## the_heretic_divine (Apr 28, 2013)

Be careful with protein shakes. We Americans consume WAY too much protein as it is. You'll bulk up in the wrong way. Just be dedicated to the gym. Once you have a basic workout regimen in place(and not just limited to meat head lifting),we can go from there


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## Deathbykidd (Apr 28, 2013)

the_heretic_divine said:


> Be careful with protein shakes. We Americans consume WAY too much protein as it is. You'll bulk up in the wrong way. Just be dedicated to the gym. Once you have a basic workout regimen in place(and not just limited to meat head lifting),we can go from there



That was my concern with them. I was thinking that it would give me some fat to turn into muscle. If I recall correctly I had a really low fat count when I took my mass body index in my health class a while ago. So maybe start on a small amount of protein shakes and then transition into a workout? I use to work out daily at the local YMCA, with a mix of cycling and weights, but it didn't do much for me. It helped out my muscles, but I'm still super skinny.

Edit: just actually weighed myself.. 125 pounds. My memory sucks.


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## Chickenhawk (Apr 28, 2013)

Eat more. Skip the protein shakes until you know how many (good) calories you're taking in, and how much of that is protein. Then you can figure out how many calories you'll need to bulk (a few guys on here are well versed in this subject, and can help: Trenchlord and Uncreative come to mind first). If you can't eat enough to get the protein you need, then look into protein shakes.


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## Deathbykidd (Apr 28, 2013)

Chickenhawk said:


> Eat more. Skip the protein shakes until you know how many (good) calories you're taking in, and how much of that is protein. Then you can figure out how many calories you'll need to bulk (a few guys on here are well versed in this subject, and can help: Trenchlord and Uncreative come to mind first). If you can't eat enough to get the protein you need, then look into protein shakes.



Hopefully they can add to this discussion. I eat a lot of food, ti the point people tell me I should be a fat kid. I believe I just have a high metabolism. Majority of what I eat are noodles or chicken. I rarely ever eat a steak. So I'm not sure where else to go with it.


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## Fiction (Apr 28, 2013)

Go to the gym.

Exercising does stuff to your body, changes metabolism. It's possible to bulk regardless of your build. My housemate was 120lbs when he started and is now about 136lbs, He also thought he wouldn't bulk up.


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## Chickenhawk (Apr 28, 2013)

Deathbykidd said:


> Hopefully they can add to this discussion. I eat a lot of food, ti the point people tell me I should be a fat kid. I believe I just have a high metabolism. Majority of what I eat are noodles or chicken. I rarely ever eat a steak. So I'm not sure where else to go with it.



I joined the Army at 6'2", about 165lbs at 18 years old. I left Basic and AIT (about 24 weeks total) at 195. Went to Iraq a year later at 185, and came back at 210. My weight has more or less stabilized between 205-210, depending on how much water I'm retaining (I'm 26 now). People that haven't seen me since 2004-2005 can't believe that I don't look like a flag pole anymore. I'm not anything special, but I've finally found out how to keep on healthy weight (and not going back to 220+ by drinking a case of beer every night).

Eat a lot of good food, and go to the gym.

I had a friend in the Army that was about 5'6", and was forced to eat extra food because he was so damned skinny. Didn't do anything until he started lifting. A self-proclaimed powerlifter took him under his wing, and he started packing the pounds on within a couple months. He left some of his insane running abilities behind (Army 10 miler in ~55 minutes, 2 miler in ~12), but he never had to battle keeping healthy weight on anymore. 

He's a rock climber, now 

What's your diet like, currently? Noodles and chicken don't say a lot.


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## JP Universe (Apr 28, 2013)

Nutrition - You're aiming for around 300 Calories above maintenence. Considering you said that you're really skinny you can cut loose and eat above that. I wouldn't be too concerned with adding too much fat as you can go on a cut later on and lose it.

Honestly (without going into too much detail) smash the protein shakes.... 2 a day should be sufficient. You can drink more if you really want to. Won't affect your goal too much. You can't really have too much protein in your diet IMO. On my cut for example I was having 2 protein shakes a day and 2 servings of chicken/steak and hitting my macros....

All in all eat a lot of healthy food. That simple really.... get in the mindset of eating as much as you can. macro numbers will take care of themselves  do some research on bodybuilding.com for more info


Workout - Workout with as much weight as you can handle at around 5 - 10 reps. 3-4 times a week is enough.... 1 bodypart/workout

Cardio - Not really needed unless you want to improve health and eat even more than what you want

That's my 

I'll let the usual suspects give more detail


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## Deathbykidd (Apr 28, 2013)

Chickenhawk said:


> I joined the Army at 6'2", about 165lbs at 18 years old. I left Basic and AIT (about 24 weeks total) at 195. Went to Iraq a year later at 185, and came back at 210. My weight has more or less stabilized between 205-210, depending on how much water I'm retaining (I'm 26 now). People that haven't seen me since 2004-2005 can't believe that I don't look like a flag pole anymore. I'm not anything special, but I've finally found out how to keep on healthy weight (and not going back to 220+ by drinking a case of beer every night).
> 
> Eat a lot of good food, and go to the gym.
> 
> ...



I see it has more to do with the correct diet and working out too. As far as my diet. I usually opt for chicken over beef if I can. I just prefer chicken and try for grilled over breaded any chance I get. I tend to eat a lot of noodles like Spaghetti, Ziti, lasagna, just plain noodles, Mac and cheese.. the list goes on. So I'm sure that if I diversify my food choices It should help more. I do eat quite a bit of fast food however due to complications with family schedules. But I don't seem to gain any weight from it. I would think that would add all kinds of fat and weight to me. 


JP Universe said:


> Nutrition - You're aiming for around 300 Calories above maintenence. Considering you said that you're really skinny you can cut loose and eat above that. I wouldn't be too concerned with adding too much fat as you can go on a cut later on and lose it.
> 
> Honestly (without going into too much detail) smash the protein shakes.... 2 a day should be sufficient. You can drink more if you really want to. Won't affect your goal too much. You can't really have too much protein in your diet IMO. On my cut for example I was having 2 protein shakes a day and 2 servings of chicken/steak and hitting my macros....
> 
> ...



That's where the idea of protein shakes came in, the more I've been thinking about it and comments on this thread, it's making me think that I need to be careful with the shakes and integrate it into better food choices and a workout regime. I didn't think that eating any more than I usually do would work as I feel quite full when I'm done eating. Do I just force myself to eat more?


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## TRENCHLORD (Apr 29, 2013)

Just basically echoing what others have said,;

Increase meat and veggies and train as heavy as possible while still feeling it in the target muscle group.
It's hard to not get caught up in the competitive aspect of the gym, but try to ignore all those guys who are relying on their buddy Mo (as in momentum) to lift heavier weights.
If you're controlling the weight and feeling the target muscle get really pumped then it's cool to try going just a little heavier.
The 5-10 rep area should be the main focus to start out.

You already might be getting plenty of calories, but if there isn't a demand placed on the body to increase muscle then it won't.
Free weights are king but there's also many advantages to having cables and machines to work with.
Especially for beginers it might be a good idea to start each session with a basic free weight lift like bench or deadlift, then work some machines and cables since it's usually a safer way to go all out to failure, at least until you learn good balance and proper leverage.

Main thing with the diet is eating often and not letting more than 3hrs pass without getting some quality calories (protein and complex carbs).
You can eat a normal breakfast-lunch-supper routine and halfway between the meals hit a snack meal.
A little junk food isn't going to hurt when you're skinny but keep that to the snack meals within reason.
A pint of skim milk and a regular size Payday bar would work if you have to grab a quick dollar store/Wal-Mart snack, or a $1 chicken sandwich and a small cup of soda (better yet water with chicken and small fries) if you're in fastfoodville.

If bodyfat isn't a problem anyways then one of the higher quality weight gainer powders make good snack meals.
If you go that route just make sure that most of the carbs are complex and not just sugars.
Measure the servings much smaller than the suggested amount.
About 50 grams of mostly complex carbs (and you can buy pure maltodextrin powder) is more than enough for one dose.

Taking 1/3 servings of this stuff in water would give you approx. 30g carbs, 20g protein, and a couple grams fat, which would cost about .75cents/drink.
That's about the same cost as can of coke, and a little milk would spike the mix without adding much cost (if you were at home).
http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/opt/gainer.html


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## troyguitar (Apr 30, 2013)

You could also just wait. I also graduated high school around 5'10" 125 lbs and able to eat as much of anything as I wanted. Now I'm 150 and gain weight like crazy without staying on a pretty strict diet.


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## m3l-mrq3z (Apr 30, 2013)

Protein shakes are just supplements...they won't replace the meat/fish or other natural sources of protein you should be already consuming. 

I don't know how you guys feel about this, but I for one freak out when I see skinny 15-18 year olds at the gym doing nothing but getting vascular (with veins protuding from their arms) because they are either ectomorphs or their metabolism is still too fast.


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## Winspear (Apr 30, 2013)

Deathbykidd said:


> That's where the idea of protein shakes came in, the more I've been thinking about it and comments on this thread, it's making me think that I need to be careful with the shakes and integrate it into better food choices and a workout regime. I didn't think that eating any more than I usually do would work as I feel quite full when I'm done eating. Do I just force myself to eat more?



They are a great way to get the calories you need to grow without making yourself too full. I certainly couldn't manage without them (when I was training properly)- I eat oats for breakfast, some pasta and tuna for lunch, and a big salad with rice and chicken for dinner. Shakes inbetween the meals which come in at 800 calories each - more than twice that huge dinner which fills me right up. It's the full fat milk that does it.

They aren't dangerous and should be viewed no differently than food..because they are food. Just don't let them replace food (unless you don't have time to eat a meal), because the vitamins etc are of course missing.

And I'm not sure about the comment about Americans eating too much protein already...A chicken breast and a can of tuna is only about 60g protein tops - most recommendations for building I see are 150-250g.

But yes, eat well, and good food. Get on a good routine. Track calories every day - see how your weight goes. If you don't put on a few lbs after a few weeks, add a shake (pint semi skim milk and one 30g scoop of whey) for an extra few hundred cals and ~35g protein a day.


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## Furtive Glance (Apr 30, 2013)

Been there! I was 130 lbs at 5'11" 3-4 years ago. Now I'm a good 40-50lbs heavier (mostly muscle too, woot). 

Eat eat eat eat eat. Gym gym gym gym gym.

But diet's the real deal breaker; you have to eat good food! Like everyone else has said, already.


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## Uncreative123 (Apr 30, 2013)

m3l-mrq3z said:


> ...they won't replace the meat/fish or other natural sources of protein you should be already consuming.




Actually, that's exactly what they do. They supplement the protein you would get from other sources. Most people have issue eating 2+lbs of meat/fish/poultry a day and need to supplement the rest. 
Obviously it's not the same thing......it's just that, a supplement. And there's nothing wrong with having one or two or three or even four a day. 

I'm only doing 1-2 a day right now- morning or pre-workout and post-workout; but I've done 4+ in a day before and I've also done none in a day before. If you're getting "too much" protein it's going to come out one way or another. If you're shitting more than 3x a day maybe ease off a bit. That's my complex scientific theory.


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## Chickenhawk (Apr 30, 2013)

Uncreative123 said:


> If you're shitting more than 3x a day maybe ease off a bit. That's my complex scientific theory.



That's basically how it's always been explained to me.

Gym science:
Too much protein = rotten ass farts
Way too much = shitting all the time

My wife tried to explain it to me the other day, but I wasn't listening. You'd think I'd listen to the woman that has a Bachelors in biology, and a Bachelors and Masters in Nursing when she's trying to explain to me how the human body works. 

Guess the general consensus is to try to eat more, and if you find that you can't stomach that much food a day, it won't hurt to supplement with a protein shake or two a day. That's what I'm gonna have to do very soon.


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## m3l-mrq3z (Apr 30, 2013)

Chickenhawk said:


> That's basically how it's always been explained to me.
> 
> Gym science:
> Too much protein = rotten ass farts
> ...



Regardless of the source of said protein (natural/isolate)?

Btw:


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## Chickenhawk (Apr 30, 2013)

m3l-mrq3z said:


> Regardless of the source of said protein (natural/isolate)?



I don't know. I've only encountered protein farts from GNC brand Protein shakes. Honestly couldn't tell you exactly what the stuff was. It's been since 2005 since I've used the stuff.

I have had some horrid poops after a weekend of beer and steak in abundance. 

I wouldn't think you'd produce a lot of fecal matter from just the shakes, though. Not enough substance to turn into a turd. But there's probably some other stuff going on when your body is in a "_protein surplus_" that I don't know enough about.

EDIT:
Protein surplus is the wrong term, I'm sure of it. But it gets the point across, so I'm running with it.


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## Captain Shoggoth (Apr 30, 2013)

I don't get protein shake farts, but that's probably because I consume a metric fuckton of meat and milk anyway.

Creatine farts, on the other hand... carnage.


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## TRENCHLORD (Apr 30, 2013)

Can we please move this thread along now?
No? Well O.K. then.

I like the smell of my own farts | Is It Normal? | http://isitnormal.com


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## AngstRiddenDreams (Apr 30, 2013)

You never fail to disappoint Trench, you sick fuck.


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## Ibanezsam4 (Apr 30, 2013)

copy&pasted from one of the comments in Trench's link.. this is too good 

"i once went on a date with a girl, and after we ate curry, and had a few drinks i ended back at her place, we ended up in bed, and thats when it happened...i knew i needed to lay a stinking cable as gas was coming from my corn-hoop every second for about an hour, in the end i thought 'fuck it' and shouted 'shit ghost!' and let out the biggest-ring-ripper the earth has ever seen, it smelled like burnt tyres mixed with off meat!, my undies felt squidgy ..id actually poo'd, and it had sprayed about six feet down the bed and was on the wall too!..i got up, and said 'gotta go' farted again and ran away. not heard from her since" 

now back to bulking!


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## m3l-mrq3z (May 1, 2013)

lol "now back to bulking!" was the single most epic way to finish your post


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## UnderTheSign (May 1, 2013)

Chickenhawk said:


> I don't know. I've only encountered protein farts from GNC brand Protein shakes. Honestly couldn't tell you exactly what the stuff was. It's been since 2005 since I've used the stuff.
> 
> I have had some horrid poops after a weekend of beer and steak in abundance.
> 
> ...


The cheap stuff makes me fart and feel bloated. Higher quality whey is alright though it still makes me feel bloated sometimes and isolate is perfect - no bloat, no farts. More expensive though.


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## Fiction (May 1, 2013)

I use ACE, and still get some pretty damn good farts. I don't think it's a case of quality of supplements, it's just how your body reacts. Excess protein is going to cause excess gas. What your body does, is what your body does.


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## m3l-mrq3z (May 1, 2013)

Fiction said:


> *I use ACE, and still get some pretty damn good farts.* I don't think it's a case of quality of supplements, it's just how your body reacts. Excess protein is going to cause excess gas. What your body does, is what your body does.


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## Majkel (May 7, 2013)

Personally I'm not into the "eat every X hours" thing. I believe it's mostly myth, somewhat based on the old incorrect saying that the body can only absorb x grams of protein in one sitting. If you think about that from an evolutionary perspective where people got to eat maybe every other day, we'd be dead as a race a long time ago.

For me it's all about hitting your macros, doing it with clean food and quite importantly WHEN you eat what. Figure out your BMR and from there get your macros. Someone said in the beginning of the thread that you're probably consuming way too much protein and I'd argue that that's probably incorrect as all hell. Getting 1g (I think that's right... being from Europe I'm used to counting 2g/kg) protein per lean pound in a day is actually quite a bit of meat to stuff down your face, and weighing in at 145 lbs I'm guessing you're not a huge eater. Add your carbs to that and you'll be eating quite a lot, so protein shakes will definitely help you. If you're not used to eating loads of protein, sure that can give you an upset stomach and in that case it might be an idea to split your protein intake more evenly during the day.

As for macro timing, I believe it's very important to keep track of when you're eating what. Personally I try to consume about 60% (and I only eat twice per day, so you can imagine the size of that portion...) of my food intake directly after working out. This is when carbs are most needed, not at night before you go to bed. The carbs are there to restore the glycogen in your muscles, making sure you can go hard day after day without strength loss. It needs to be replenished while the muscles are "hungry", with a little bit of a top up later in the day, not while you're burning absolutely no energy at all. 
Make sure to keep fat intake low on training days, and switch it for rest days (ie, very low carb but maybe x2 the fat). Keep the protein intake the same no matter if it's a training or a rest day. 

As for the gym... Take your time. Learn how to do free weights properly. It takes a long time to get that backbone feeling for how to perform an exercise correctly (I gave both deadlifts and squats about 1.5 months of practice before starting to load on the weights). You need to learn how to work out with good form right at the beginning, and you need to keep a steady eye on it. It's *so* easy to get into bad habits and "faking" the exercise just to move a heavier weight, and that's entirely counter productive. Learn how to target the muscle you're going for and have only that muscle do the work (ie, no traps should be involved in a lateral raise. If your traps move up, you're doing it wrong). Learn how to be strict and precise at lower weights.

After that: go heavy as fuck. Always, always, always strive to lift heavier. Except for perhaps your biceps and abs, all your muscles benefit from lifting as heavy as you possibly can. The weight will be your motivation and your goal. If you're not there to own the shit out of that weight, you're not there to grow purposefully. The weight is where the fun is


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## UnderTheSign (May 7, 2013)

Majkel said:


> Personally I'm not into the "eat every X hours" thing. I believe it's mostly myth, somewhat based on the old incorrect saying that the body can only absorb x grams of protein in one sitting. If you think about that from an evolutionary perspective where people got to eat maybe every other day, we'd be dead as a race a long time ago.


The main reason a lot of guys spread their intake over 5-6 meals is because grinding down 3/4/5000kcal+ in 2 meals would be madness.


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## Majkel (May 7, 2013)

UnderTheSign said:


> The main reason a lot of guys spread their intake over 5-6 meals is because grinding down 3/4/5000kcal+ in 2 meals would be madness.



Yeah, but that's preference, not a basis for recommendation. The normal argument is to keep your insulin levels constant, allow for a constant digestion, and for the said protein uptake problem.

4-5000 calories over two meals is not a problem. A pizza is what, 1800 kcal? Granted the macros are not at all what you are going for, so realistically you're going to be eating a lot more, but it's certainly doable. I was doing one meal per day for a while and chowed down 1800-2200 kcal in a sitting. 

Granted, I stopped doing it because it took forever and was more work than the actual work-out.


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## Despised_0515 (May 7, 2013)

We're the same height and I've also got a really fast metabolism and used to eat like a damn beast. Without changing my diet and without taking protein shakes, I went from weighing 135 to about 146 or so. That was when I was at a shitty gym with friends distracting me and not really knowing what the hell I was doing. Still about a 10 pound gain.

I started avoiding those friends and that gym because you really gotta want it for yourself if you want to make some gains. I signed up to a much, much better gym and changed things up. No matter what I did, with the exception of core and legs, I made sure I lifted heavy and did just a few sets of 6 to 10 reps.

Like I said, I didn't change my diet at all but I made sure I ate at about the same time every day and hit the gym at the same time every day. I can't recall how long it took me but I got up to 155 from 135 and I felt great.

I was on my way to my next goal of 160.
Then my ex came along...
AVOID THAT SHIT LIKE THE PLAGUE IF YOU WANT GAINS!


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## Captain Shoggoth (May 8, 2013)

Eat lots of good food, lots of protein (~1.5g/lb of bodyweight) and lift big compound lifts-bench and overhead press are more likely to make you grow than concentration curls and tricep extensions imo-be economical with your training, don't throw in lots of exercises you don't need.

I only really use whey protein as a meal filler or sugar cravings mitigator (chocolate flavour+milk+oats mmmm), the other stuff is just creatine, fish oil and a multivitamin. Keep it simple, I'd say only whey (if that) if you're only 145lbs.

Keep at it and keep things simple but effective and you'll get there. I consider myself a hard-gainer (couple of years ago after cardio'ing away my baby fat I was about 5'5 and 135lbs, currently am 5'6 165lbs age 17)


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## UnderTheSign (May 8, 2013)

Majkel said:


> Yeah, but that's preference, not a basis for recommendation. The normal argument is to keep your insulin levels constant, allow for a constant digestion, and for the said protein uptake problem.
> 
> 4-5000 calories over two meals is not a problem. A pizza is what, 1800 kcal? Granted the macros are not at all what you are going for, so realistically you're going to be eating a lot more, but it's certainly doable. I was doing one meal per day for a while and chowed down 1800-2200 kcal in a sitting.
> 
> Granted, I stopped doing it because it took forever and was more work than the actual work-out.


Yeah, a pizza. But when you're trying to gain actual muscle, you're not going to rely on pizza. Of course it's "doable", it's just a lot easier splitting it up and I certainly think that's basis for recommendation. The protein thing "your body can't process more than 30-40g protein every 3 hours" has long been discarded anyway.


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## Majkel (May 8, 2013)

UnderTheSign said:


> Yeah, a pizza. But when you're trying to gain actual muscle, you're not going to rely on pizza. Of course it's "doable", it's just a lot easier splitting it up and I certainly think that's basis for recommendation. The protein thing "your body can't process more than 30-40g protein every 3 hours" has long been discarded anyway.



Like I said, realistically you're going to be eating a lot more food since you're _not_ eating pizza.

First link the googles gave me, but at least it mentions some actual "benefits" that are commong truths to the frequent meals theory, ie hunger control and elevated metabolism. 

Being _able_ to eat your calories isn't quite the point of it, and it's mostly considered positive in a weight loss sense anyways.

Anyways, how many times per day you eat isn't what we need to argue, and it certainly wasn't my point. Like I said, personally I'm much more focused on when I eat what.


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## Joseph Kimbrell (May 8, 2013)

m3l-mrq3z said:


> Regardless of the source of said protein (natural/isolate)?
> 
> Btw:



LOL - When I'm bulking up, I'll get these about the first month because my digestion isn't used to working with all those extra calories.


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## Seanthesheep (May 11, 2013)

troyguitar said:


> You could also just wait. I also graduated high school around 5'10" 125 lbs and able to eat as much of anything as I wanted. Now I'm 150 and gain weight like crazy without staying on a pretty strict diet.



opposite thing happned to me. graduated highschool around 160 Lbs and reasonably fit. got a couple office jobs and now only a couple years later Im around 195lbs most of it is fat and now Im working my ass off to kind of revert back to being more fit


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## WestOfSeven (May 24, 2013)

The key for me when I'm bulking is I replace all the fluids I drink with chocolate milk and protein powder.

It's easier when you drink some of your calories and it really helps recovery.


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## glpg80 (Jun 2, 2013)

One thing to help gain weight is to cut down on the fruits for snacks as they are sugars and substitute nuts/pecans/sunflower seeds for your snacks.

Oats are excellent. EGGs are eggcellent!!! Learn to love eggs. Your main goal is to cut sugars, cut cholesterol, and cut total fats. As said before you can have fats whenever starting out and cut them later once you have put on a few pounds. Some fats are nutritious and essential to your daily diet but dont over do it.

Load up on carbohydrates before a workout. Anything that is white. Bread, potatoes, noodles, etc. This will give you energy to burn during your workout. Post workout load up on proteins/amino's and veggi's. You need the vegetables to replace important key minerals. 

Drop empty carbs. Specifically soda and beer.

Increase water intake. If you're urine is not crystal clear or has an odor then you are not drinking enough water. Be sure to keep sodium and potassium intake in check as well. If food is cooked with sodium then you're fine.

Vitamin B6 and B12 are used for digestion of food and the efficiency of your metabolic rate. You also need it to keep fatigue at bay. 

I use whey protein isolates - particularly lactose free versions. I've had bad experiences with lactose based weight gainers in the past. No gas, no bloating, no adverse effects.

Also mind your amino acid intake which helps you to digest your protein. Either supplemental or through cooked fish and meat.

Always do cardio after a workout, not before. There have been studies that show no adverse benefits of cardio before a workout, but afterwards there is a large benefits in fatiguing leg and calf muscles. Overall you see more growth. Studies exist to show this point and are easily googled for proof. I read this one myself in a textbook.

That's all i got


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