# Tim Lambesis arrested for trying to hire someone to kill his wife....



## MikeH (May 7, 2013)

What the literal fuck....
Heavy metal singer Tim Lambesis arrested in murder-for-hire plot - police | Reuters


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## Jackson12s (May 7, 2013)

Just saw this on Facebook, wtf


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## MikeH (May 7, 2013)

I'm hoping it's fake, but who knows.


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## Yimmj (May 7, 2013)

What. The. Fuck.


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## AngstRiddenDreams (May 7, 2013)

I suppose your wife would really have to piss you off for this to happen.


2,000 posts! What an uneventful one...


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## MetalBuddah (May 7, 2013)

MikeH said:


> I'm hoping it's fake, but who knows.



Reuters is pretty legit, very doubtful


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## MikeH (May 7, 2013)

Yeah, it's on Lambgoat now as well.

EDIT: And Yahoo News. So either someone set up an incredibly well-thought hoax, or Lambesis is going away for quite some time.


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## Jake (May 7, 2013)

Fuck is all I have to say about this. 


Just fuck.


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## poopyalligator (May 7, 2013)

Wow, this is just crazy.


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## muffinbutton (May 7, 2013)

Why couldn't it have been radke!?


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## MikeH (May 7, 2013)

Lead singer accused of hiring hit man to kill estranged wife | FOX5 San Diego

Heavy metal singer Tim Lambesis arrested in murder-for-hire plot: police

http://......./17KDcau

Seems legit...


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## Floppystrings (May 7, 2013)

Wow, haha.

Fucking weird news.


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## s_k_mullins (May 7, 2013)

Fucking horrible news! Tim has obviously went off the deep end


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## Floppystrings (May 7, 2013)

s_k_mullins said:


> Fucking horrible news! Tim has obviously went off the deep end



Yeah I know right.

This is something evil people do.

It is also extremely stupid.


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## ittoa666 (May 7, 2013)

Wait.....





























































What?!


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## anomynous (May 7, 2013)

idiot


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## JerichoCheng (May 7, 2013)

they just live in hongkong last week,,,
wth!?


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## s_k_mullins (May 7, 2013)

Floppystrings said:


> Yeah I know right.
> 
> This is something evil people do.
> 
> It is also extremely stupid.



Extremely stupid! He's flipped his fucking lid. 




ittoa666 said:


> Wait.....
> 
> What?!



My exact reaction. This guy is the last person I'd expect to hear this about.


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## anomynous (May 7, 2013)

Time to rename the band to As She Lays Dying


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## MrPepperoniNipples (May 7, 2013)

Yesterday on Instagram I think it was, he said he was just leaving from China. I'll double check this, but I don't think there was enough time between these two events.

Or maybe I'm a dildo


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## MikeH (May 7, 2013)

anomynous said:


> Time to rename the band to As She Lays Dying



Well she didn't die, soooo......


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## Captain Butterscotch (May 7, 2013)

As She Almost Had The Potential To Lay Dying


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## Nykur_Myrkvi (May 7, 2013)

MrPepperoniNipples said:


> Yesterday on Instagram I think it was, he said he was just leaving from China. I'll double check this, but I don't think there was enough time between these two events.
> 
> Or maybe I'm a dildo


It didn't need to happen between those two events. It just got discovered between them.


Hope this turns out to be someone framing him or something. Pretty crazy releasing a video talking about how people have these misconceptions about him (the "I'm not a Satanist" video) and then two weeks later or so being arrested for something like this.

Not that the two are linked...or that I really have a point here...just something I thought about.

Anyway, this has to put the Austrian Death Machine kickstarter in a bad place.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (May 7, 2013)

What the flying fuck?


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## erotophonophilia (May 7, 2013)

Well As I Lay Dying is a Christian band and murder isn't very Christian-like. Wait a minute...


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## st2012 (May 7, 2013)




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## ilyti (May 7, 2013)

anomynous said:


> Time to rename the band to As She Lays Dying








I don't know why the dipshit doesn't just get a divorce. Seriously.


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## MythicSquirrel (May 7, 2013)

This is just. Wut.


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## anomynous (May 7, 2013)

I guess this is what the Austrian Death Machine kickstarter was for


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## Captain Butterscotch (May 7, 2013)

erotophonophilia said:


> Well As I Lay Dying is a Christian band and murder isn't very Christian-like. Wait a minute...



Get out of here with that.


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## Spaceman_Spiff (May 7, 2013)

wut


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## katsumura78 (May 7, 2013)

Holy crap. I can't even believe what I'm reading.


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## Xiphos68 (May 7, 2013)

I really, really hope this isn't true. 

Tim was a big influence on me. Also, if some of you do not know, he is no longer a Christian.

The rest of the guys in AILD are, but no longer him.


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## Valnob (May 7, 2013)

Just heard, really unbelievable.


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## ADevilsDaydream817 (May 7, 2013)

I guess they will use all that austrian death machine kickstarter money to bail out. I still find this hard to believe.


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## Djent (May 7, 2013)

This, combined with Frankie Palmeri getting electrocuted, is further proof that instrumental metal bands are plotting to rid the earth of vocalists...


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## Spaceman_Spiff (May 7, 2013)

I dunno this seems fishy to me. AILD has been on tour in Asia and he seems to have come home either yesterday or today, and he supposedly contacted the undercover detective May 2nd. It's possible he did it over the phone I guess.


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## Hyacinth (May 7, 2013)

muffinbutton said:


> Why couldn't it have been radke!?



Don't worry, that retard is going back to jail. Mark my words.


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## ZXIIIT (May 7, 2013)

As I lol Dying.

Yay San Diego.


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## M3CHK1LLA (May 7, 2013)

any word on why she became his estranged wife?


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## Xiphos68 (May 7, 2013)

M3CHK1LLA said:


> any word on why she became his estranged wife?



Yeah.

I thought his wife made all the videos for Austrian Death Machine and what not?


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## absolutorigin (May 7, 2013)

Wtf man? Bizarre as hell.


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## GizmoJunior (May 7, 2013)

I've actually met Tim, this is pretty fucking crazy.



What if he would have decided to have someone kill me.


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## Leuchty (May 7, 2013)

Aww man...


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## CrownofWorms (May 7, 2013)

As I Lay Sobbing in a corner 



If this was true


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## DANiMALxMD (May 7, 2013)

Spaceman_Spiff said:


> I dunno this seems fishy to me. AILD has been on tour in Asia and he seems to have come home either yesterday or today, and he supposedly contacted the undercover detective May 2nd. It's possible he did it over the phone I guess.



EXACTLY. He couldn't of done it if he was in Asia right? RIGHT? 

GUILTY.

Just kidding, this is insane though.


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## The Reverend (May 7, 2013)

So fucking weird. I've never understood how people go about finding hitmen, anyways. Do you go on Craigslist? Talk to people with Italian last names, looking for a Mob connection?


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## Grand Moff Tim (May 7, 2013)

Just ask the first guy you see with a barcode tattooed on the back of his head, probably dressed up as a janitor and trying his hardest to look nonchalant.


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## anomynous (May 7, 2013)




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## fwd0120 (May 7, 2013)

Free Randy Bl..... Oh, yeah this guy sucks.


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## Big_taco (May 7, 2013)

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="As I Lay Dying - "Confined" Metal Blade Records - YouTube" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

edit: I screwed up embedding...doooh


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## Dawn of the Shred (May 7, 2013)

WTF


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## SoItGoesRVA (May 7, 2013)

I'll wait 94 hours to pass judgement. Ba Dum Tiss.


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## Chuck (May 8, 2013)

Damn, this is too crazy.


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## Breakdown (May 8, 2013)

Goddammit, I was looking forward to seeing them with KSE. I really hope they dont get some shit band to replace them if they end up not being able to tour.


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## Rick (May 8, 2013)

Unreal.


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## Tommy (May 8, 2013)

That's some crazy shit.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (May 8, 2013)

I'm really hoping this isn't true. I was really looking foward to Pyrithion.


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## Xiphos68 (May 8, 2013)

Statement from the Sheriff...



> Murder for Hire Plot Foiled Lead Singer for As I Lay Dying Arrested
> Tim Lambesis, lead singer and co-founder for the heavy metal band, "As I Lay Dying" was arrested without incident today, May 7, 2013, at 2:00 p.m. in a retail business on Vista Way in Oceanside. Lambesis is charged with Solicitation of Another to Commit Murder.
> Information came to the San Diego County Sheriff's Department on May 2nd that Lambesis was soliciting another individual to kill his estranged wife, who resides in Encinitas. The Encinitas Detectives, The San Diego Fugitive Task Force and the Sheriff's Special Investigation Division investigators immediately initiated an investigation.
> The investigation culminated this afternoon, when Lambesis solicited an undercover detective to kill his wife. He was then arrested, transported to the Encinitas Station, and booked into the Vista Detention Facility.


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## FireInside (May 8, 2013)

Heard about this earlier. I am still in shock. What in the flying fuck...


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## yingmin (May 8, 2013)

I don't know why he thought an undercover detective would help him kill his wife. That's just asking for trouble.


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## Joomis (May 8, 2013)

Sounds pretty black and white at this point. He contacted an undercover agent to kill his wife. He was being investigated for a couple days from the sounds of it. Can't really get around that!


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## Yo_Wattup (May 8, 2013)

If he did it, I hope he gets locked away for a long time, If he didn't.. I feel very sorry for him and wish him the best of luck.

I hope he did it so one of the shittiest bands ever will hopefully be out of action for a while. 











I like my neg rep with a serving of flames on the side. Ty.


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## GalacticDeath (May 8, 2013)

Just heard about this. 
I wonder what his wife did to piss him off so much. Maybe the dude just snapped. Who knows, it's fuked


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## brutalwizard (May 8, 2013)

It is not a hoax, he is charged with 2 felonies. 

SOLICIT TO COMMIT MURDER
CONSPIRACY:COMMIT CRIME





http://apps.sdsheriff.net/wij/wijDetail.aspx?BookNum=jeibvt6SXUOS3NLj2xIqe8hsUOkA3gko3LeoC4IiLVE=

EDIT it wont let me link to his particular case stuff, just type his name in there.


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## Joose (May 8, 2013)

What the fucking fuck?


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## Dwellingers (May 8, 2013)

poopyalligator said:


> Wow, this is just crazy.



...here´s my number ...


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## Jake (May 8, 2013)

brutalwizard said:


> It is not a hoax, he is charged with 2 felonies.
> 
> SOLICIT TO COMMIT MURDER
> CONSPIRACY:COMMIT CRIME
> ...


thank you for posting that before I could get to it. Everyone keeps saying it's a hoax even when that's clear as day. As hard as it is to believe you cant deny that right there.


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## spawnofthesith (May 8, 2013)

Saw this earlier...... what. the. fuck.


wat.


the.



fawk.


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## Dwellingers (May 8, 2013)

Half?


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## jawbreaker (May 8, 2013)

This is fucking insane! It's even more odd because if you've ever seen their DVD she's in it, and they seem happy. I saw the face of the woman Tim Lambesis tried to have murdered. It's kind of an eerie feeling.




My initial reaction when I read it.


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## ittoa666 (May 8, 2013)

I'm still thoroughly what-the-fucking right now, and I'll continue while I sleep tonight.


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## ayaotd (May 8, 2013)

This is so bizarre.


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## Ironbird (May 8, 2013)

Bizzare is a word to describe this. Wow.


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## Esp Griffyn (May 8, 2013)

The things that people will do, Jesus, what a maniac. Still, much respect to the law enforcement teams who worked swiftly and effectively to stop him from carrying out his evil plan. By the sounds of things, when they found out he was actively searching a for someone to kill his wife, they baited the hook with a juicy worm and let the fish bite it. He is going away for a long time.

I never like AILD, so I won't be sad that they won't be making any more music with Lambesis, but I suppose at the end of a day, a band losing a member or breaking up etc is a minor inconvenience when loss of life has been averted.


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## M3CHK1LLA (May 8, 2013)

is anyone updating the wiki page?

edit: dang you guys are quick lol!



> On May 7, 2013, Tim Lambesis was arrested in Oceanside, California after allegedly trying to hire an undercover detective to kill his estranged wife, the San Diego County Sheriff&#8217;s Department said. As reported By the U-T San Diego.


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## khobi64 (May 8, 2013)

every interview he seemed so down to earth and well just lovely, i think thats why no one can believe it


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## cronux (May 8, 2013)

well...






don't know why but i'm still laughing... never really liked AILD but I've seen some interviews with Tim and know people who seen him live/met him and he seems like a nice guy... 

Women...ahh women


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## Fat-Elf (May 8, 2013)

Having seen them live makes this so unreal. I just wonder what happens to his kids.


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## wookie606 (May 8, 2013)

Uhm, what the fuck?


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## skisgaar (May 8, 2013)

I've shook hands with this man. I don't know what the fuck to think...


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## wlfers (May 8, 2013)

yingmin said:


> I don't know why he thought an undercover detective would help him kill his wife. That's just asking for trouble.



He wasn't aware it was an undercover cop lol.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (May 8, 2013)

athawulf said:


> He wasn't aware it was an undercover cop lol.



Yup. There are cops out there that under cover as hitmen. Tim was unfortunate (well, fortunate for everyone else involved) to run into a undercover cop instead of a "real" hitman.


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## hairychris (May 8, 2013)

If true, then what a complete cock. And a nasty one at that.

Hey ho.


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## flexkill (May 8, 2013)

I don't see how this can not be true. If it is not true....then that is some bad police work all way round.


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## JPMike (May 8, 2013)

You never know what's deep inside someone's soul...


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## MikeH (May 8, 2013)

I really don't think he actually contacted an undercover officer on purpose, which is what some people seem to think. I'm sure it was more of a sting operation and they had someone go in who he thought could help him, and then they got him trying to solicit the officer into doing it and busted him. Still, this is fucked.


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## tkozuch (May 8, 2013)

MikeH said:


> I really don't think he actually contacted an undercover officer on purpose, which is what some people seem to think. I'm sure it was more of a sting operation and they had someone go in who he thought could help him, and then they got him trying to solicit the officer into doing it and busted him. Still, this is fucked.



I think people are missing the obvious sarcasm in those posts.


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## ridner (May 8, 2013)

Christians


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## MrPepperoniNipples (May 8, 2013)

If this is true, there will be no Triple Brutal!

NOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## brutalwizard (May 8, 2013)

MrPepperoniNipples said:


> If this is true, there will be no Triple Brutal!
> 
> NOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




It is true, Go back a page his jailing information is there. Gets arraigned 1:30pm on thursday. Till then he is Just chillen in a jail cell.


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## ridner (May 8, 2013)

you know what - I can totally see the media having a field day with this. 

"Heavy Metal singer plots to kill wife - Heavy Metal is evil" etc

"Heavy Metal corrupts Christian singer to plot in wife's murder" etc


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## linchpin (May 8, 2013)




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## Deathspell Omega (May 8, 2013)

Djent said:


> This, combined with Frankie Palmeri getting electrocuted, is further proof that instrumental metal bands are plotting to rid the earth of vocalists...




And guys like Lambesis and Palmeri are considered to be "vocalists" ?? By the djent community ?


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## Nats (May 8, 2013)

Fat-Elf said:


> Having seen them live makes this so unreal. I just wonder what happens to his kids.



The hitman he contacted to kill his kids wasn't an undercover detective so they'll prob die any second.


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## BIG ND SWEATY (May 8, 2013)

Deathspell Omega said:


> And guys like Lambesis and Palmeri are considered to be "vocalists" ?? By the djent community ?



well they are the frontmen of their bands, what else would they be called? Yellers? lol

this is pretty god damn crazy, im really interested to see how this develops.


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## Fat-Elf (May 8, 2013)

Nats said:


> The hitman he contacted to kill his kids wasn't an undercover detective so they'll prob die any second.



What!? He tried to kill his kids too? I thought it was only his wife he wanted dead.


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## Lorcan Ward (May 8, 2013)

Holy crap thats nuts!


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## Friendroid (May 8, 2013)

I guess he isn't a DIY kind of guy.


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## cronux (May 8, 2013)

i think a big chunk of you are looking at this at a wrong angle - i estimate about 90% of people that met Tim are in shock, hell I never met the guy (but I've watched the AILD documentary, saw some interviews) and the dude seemed really nice so...

WHAT DID HIS WIFE DO THAT MADE A GUY LIKE THAT WANT TO KILL HER?

note: I had a chick that made me want to break her arms with a tank... she was that crazy (i never did though)


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## Nyx Erebos (May 8, 2013)

In the OP link, article about hiring an hitman to kill his wife, 1st comment : they're not heavy metal, they're metalcore


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## Nats (May 8, 2013)

cronux said:


> WHAT DID HIS WIFE DO THAT MADE A GUY LIKE THAT WANT TO KILL HER?



Have you ever been in love?


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## cronux (May 8, 2013)

Nats said:


> Have you ever been in love?



my point exactly


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## guitar_player4_2_0 (May 8, 2013)

Bummer! I'm glad I've already seen them live. They put on a decent show. Did not hear about him not being a Christian anymore tho.


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## Goro923 (May 8, 2013)




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## jehu12141987 (May 8, 2013)

Saw the thread already had 5 pages by this morning... not even hopping in.


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## Randy (May 8, 2013)

Well, I guess he'll have ample time to continue obsessively lifting weights...


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## jephjacques (May 8, 2013)

more like As I Lay Incarcerated


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## Sunyata (May 8, 2013)

jehu12141987 said:


> Saw the thread already had 5 pages by this morning... not even hopping in.



but you just did...


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## lemeker (May 8, 2013)

This is fucked up man. It makes you wonder what this world is coming to!!!!


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## Spaceman_Spiff (May 8, 2013)

Well, at least no one got killed. I'm curious as to what made his wife want to leave him. Maybe he's just been losing it, or she has, but still if she had threatened him or his kids or something go to the police, not Agent 47.


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## wankerness (May 8, 2013)

erotophonophilia said:


> Well As I Lay Dying is a Christian band and murder isn't very Christian-like. Wait a minute...



Of course not, that's why he hired someone else to do it. Still a good christian.


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## MrYakob (May 8, 2013)

Fat-Elf said:


> What!? He tried to kill his kids too? I thought it was only his wife he wanted dead.



I'm preeeetty sure he was just joking....


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## RevDrucifer (May 8, 2013)

For those saying "I met him/shook his hand/watched his DVD and never would have expected this!"....well, why would you? 

My sister recently moved in with a guy who murdered his own mother. There's a huge crazy story behind it, years of abuse, the dude got married and his mom ended up _fucking his wife while he was away in the army_. He came home, snapped and strangled her. 

You'd NEVER know this dude strangled someone, never mind his own mother, when you meet him. Honestly, he's one of the best boyfriends my sister has had. You'd expect this guy to bust out a Star Wars DVD box set in a Wookie costume before doing anything violent.

Ya never know man.


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## RagtimeDandy (May 8, 2013)

Hmm, maybe that's why I never got into their music! Regardless, very good news that no one was harmed/killed, and if he is found guilty, it's also good there's one less psycho on the streets and one less psycho to give metal a bad image (we all know some jackass is gunna play the o'le SATANIC METAL MADE HIM DO IT card)


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## JosephAOI (May 8, 2013)

Also quite in shock about this. AILD was one of my favorite bands when I was younger and I had talked to Tim many times online about a lot of deep subjects. Crazy to hear that something like this actually happened. Hoping that there's some truth behind all of this that can explain why he did it.


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## ricknasty1985 (May 8, 2013)

Don't mind the music, the guy deserves to go to jail for a long time. You don't 'hire' someone to kill your wife. No matter what she did to him. That's brutal news.

I was sympathetic towards Randy... Tim, sorry... Burn.


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## MikeK (May 8, 2013)

Time to reflect upon his Christian values for 10-15 years.


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## thrsher (May 8, 2013)




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## MiPwnYew (May 8, 2013)

RevDrucifer said:


> My sister recently moved in with a guy who murdered his own mother. There's a huge crazy story behind it, years of abuse, the dude got married and *his mom ended up fucking his wife*_ while he was away in the army_. He came home, snapped and strangled her.




Wait... what..?


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## Randy (May 8, 2013)




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## Goro923 (May 8, 2013)

^^Yeah there are ways around that. I mean the strangling.


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## skisgaar (May 8, 2013)

Goro923 said:


>



I shouldn't be laughing.....fuck.

On a serious note for myself, I high fived this man......I don't know what the fuck to think.


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## kevdes93 (May 8, 2013)

these guys along with killswitch engage are the first bands to get me into heavy music. im pretty floored by this news.


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## XEN (May 8, 2013)

Any man who doesn't have the balls to either do the job himself or to get the fuck over it and move on is a bitch.


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## Nats (May 8, 2013)

I know christians don't believe in divorce, but jesus h. christ, you can get an annulment and get peace of mind that jesus and god won't remember your marriage and divorce ever happened because a few hundred dollars wipes that from their memories. 

On a side note, since they have that show To Catch A Predator here in America that baits potential child molesters into meeting up with an (decoy) underage person, they might be onto something if that make a show similar to that with murder for hire. It would be something like this:

-*person who wants spouse dead walks up to nice house and knocks on door*
- Decoy hitman tells the person to come in and sit down. He asks that person to have a seat and drink some lemonade he just prepared while he goes into the other room for a quick second to go clean his guns and knives collection
- Chris Hansen walks out and says "Why don't you have a seat over there"
- profit


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## Robby the Robot (May 8, 2013)

My mouth still won't close from the shock. If this is true I wonder what made him flip.


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## skeels (May 8, 2013)

Wait a minute! WAIT A MINNIT!

WAIT JUST A FUCKING MINUTE!







What was that thing in there about some guy's sister's boyfriend's mom fucking his wife and then he killed her (the mom, not the wife)?


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## Equivoke (May 8, 2013)

skisgaar said:


> I shouldn't be laughing.....fuck.
> 
> On a serious note for myself, I high fived this man......I don't know what the fuck to think.



Murderers can't high five?


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## tacotiklah (May 8, 2013)

When I first found out about this, I was floored. I've never really gotten into AILD, but this rocked me pretty hard all the same because I really could not ever envision a metal musician doing something this evil and heinous.

He'll have his day in court obviously, so we'll see how this plays out. If it turns out that he did indeed do what he is accused of, then he is scum and AILD would be way better off without him. There is nothing justifiable about trying to kill your wife, and it's even more cowardly to me to want to hire someone else to do your dirty work.


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## Riffer (May 8, 2013)

I feel bad for the rest of the guys in the band if this turns out to be true and they were not involved. I'm sure they could get a new singer but Tim was such an important part of the band. He wrote a lot of the music and was a big part of their sound. Still, if he's convicted, then fuck him.


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## yingmin (May 8, 2013)

ghstofperdition said:


> I've never really gotten into AILD, but this rocked me pretty hard all the same because I really could not ever envision a metal musician doing something this evil and heinous.


Either you are the master of irony, or this is the most baffling statement I have ever read on this forum.


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## Jakke (May 8, 2013)

skisgaar said:


> On a serious note for myself, I high fived this man......I don't know what the fuck to think.



Cut off your hand, it's the only way to stop his spirit from possessing you, and using your body to finish the job.





Who even hires hitmen? What is this, Sopranos?


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## tacotiklah (May 8, 2013)

yingmin said:


> Either you are the master of irony, or this is the most baffling statement I have ever read on this forum.



Why is this baffling? Just about every metalhead I've ever met are chill, relaxed people that tend to keep to themselves and for the most part stay out of trouble. Just because they like music that has lyrics about death, dismemberment, etc. doesn't mean that they actually condone or aspire to commit those acts.


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## RevDrucifer (May 8, 2013)

skeels said:


> Wait a minute! WAIT A MINNIT!
> 
> WAIT JUST A FUCKING MINUTE!
> 
> ...



The dude was raised by his crazy drug addict mother. She'd make him snort coke, smoke weed, take pills, drink booze, starting when he was a toddler. I mean like 3-4. She also sexually abused him until the day he ended it. Over the years, the cops were over at their place nonstop, but nothing ever happened. Neighbors would try telling the cops about the abuse but they never did anything.

Dude got married right before he joined the army, when he finished training, he got back and found out his mom had been sleeping with his wife. Some time after all this happened, his mom went after him again, he restrained her and however he did it blocked her breathing. 

He called 911 and said "I think I killed my mother, I'm at...." and waited for the cops. In the end, he spent 4.5 years in jail. I'm not sure what the final charges are.

Funny thing is, my sister still hasn't told me this. She was friends with him when it happened and they recently decided to move in together. My mom gave me his last name only and told me to Google it. 

At first, I was freaking out. My sister moved out of state (first time ever leaving her hometown) to live with this dude, who she only spent a weekend with AFTER all this shit went down (which was 6-7 years ago). 

But, like I said, I met the dude and it changed my opinion. I was expecting to see some white trash thug kid, but he looks way more into Dungeons And Dragons and folk music or something....there's no hate or anger in his eyes. He's social and not awkward in any kind of way, which is surprising due to the shit he went through. 

Shit, the dude helped my band hold up tarps in a torrential downpour to cover our gear and cracked jokes the whole time. I realized that his incident wasn't something he wanted to happened, it was just a really fucked up thing that happened in his life. The whole murder/strangle thing was erased from my mind.

And I'm not using that story to justify Lambesis, my original comment about it was that there were people saying, "I shook that dude's hand, I can't believe he'd do this!". You'd NEVER fucking know my sister's boyfriend did what he did or went through the shit he did and I spent 3-4 hours with him. I told the guys in my band after about it and they couldn't believe it.

Unless Lambesis can come up with some evidence that his wife is an extreme endangerment to their kids, other kids, other people, or she's really a fucking alien from another planet who is going to destroy earth unless he kills her first, he's a piece of shit.


----------



## Equivoke (May 8, 2013)

ghstofperdition said:


> Why is this baffling? Just about every metalhead I've ever met are chill, relaxed people that tend to keep to themselves and for the most part stay out of trouble. Just because they like music that has lyrics about death, dismemberment, etc. doesn't mean that they actually condone or aspire to commit those acts.



I've met a lot of people, most of which are chill, but every group and clique has people who are unbalanced enough to commit stuff like this. 

I think your original statement was "baffling" because metal musicians _have_ committed murder/other various crimes in the past.


----------



## Rap Hat (May 8, 2013)

ghstofperdition said:


> Why is this baffling? Just about every metalhead I've ever met are chill, relaxed people that tend to keep to themselves and for the most part stay out of trouble. Just because they like music that has lyrics about death, dismemberment, etc. doesn't mean that they actually condone or aspire to commit those acts.



Look up all the Norwegian black metal stuff in the 90's. Euronymous getting stabbed a billion times by Varg, the church burnings, etc. Hell, even the singer from Thee Plague Of Gentlemen (a cool doom band) molested a bunch of 5-7 year olds.

I'm sure there's a lot more of this - and I bet as time goes on more *core/modern metal musicians will get arrested for terrible things.

E: not saying it's specific to the genres or whatever though. Just that metal isn't immune from murder and rape and other awful shit... because people can be fucked.


----------



## Joose (May 8, 2013)

Rappers are still more violent.


----------



## yingmin (May 8, 2013)

ghstofperdition said:


> Why is this baffling? Just about every metalhead I've ever met are chill, relaxed people that tend to keep to themselves and for the most part stay out of trouble. Just because they like music that has lyrics about death, dismemberment, etc. doesn't mean that they actually condone or aspire to commit those acts.



A wide variety of reasons, actually. First, the most obvious, which is that several prominent metal musicians already HAVE done things like this, so there's precedent. 

Second, you say that most of the metal musicians you've met are "chill" and "relaxed", but the consensus in this thread is that Tim seemed like a nice, happy, easy-going guy. Hell, OJ Simpson was "chill", too. Outward appearances are just that. People close to Tim might have been able to identify warning signs that he would be capable of doing something like this, MAYBE, but the average fan or casual acquaintance would have no reason to suspect he was anything but a nice guy. This is not uncommon. How well do you really know the "chill" and "relaxed" metal musicians you've met? Can you really say with any certainty that none of them would be capable of something like this?

Without getting into the issue of whether metal musicians are MORE likely to do things like this (which is not what I said), what basis do you have for thinking they are LESS likely to do it? Metal musicians are people, and some people are fucked up. Does it make any sense to think that of all the huge number of musicians making metal, there aren't at least a COUPLE that are genuinely disturbed?


----------



## Jake (May 8, 2013)

Statement from the band:



> To our fans,
> 
> As we post this, the legal process is taking it's course and we have no more information than you do. There are many unanswered questions, and the situation will become clearer in the coming days and weeks. We'll keep you informed as best we can.
> 
> ...



Guess we'll find out more after Tim's appearance in court tomorrow


----------



## MJS (May 8, 2013)

Considering how many divorces basically end with one person coming out of it like a lottery winner at the expense of the other person's life being ruined... I'm surprised this doesn't happen way more often than it already does.

As far as it seeming like they got along great goes... that's how it usually is. You don't want any videos floating around of you screaming "I wish you were dead!" at a wife that you plan on having killed. Hiring a cop to kill her is also a bad way to keep a low profile. 

I'm sure we'd all be shocked if we knew the true number of "accidental deaths" in couples that weren't really accidents. You don't need to hire an assassin or pull a trigger to avoid an expensive divorce.


----------



## robotsatemygma (May 8, 2013)

I really do wonder what the circumstances were for him to reach the conclusion that her death, is the answer. 

Or maybe the dude's a complete psycho.

I mean, he does make a living screaming, and if thats not therapeutic enough, then nothing really is. Ha!


P.S. Met the guy too.


----------



## skeels (May 8, 2013)

RevDrucifer said:


> Totally far out craziness.




Fucking wild.

Tim's arrest=not worth six pages. 

This shit=novel material.


----------



## bce5150 (May 8, 2013)

I hope they get a replacement and still do the tour with Killswitch, I want to see them. Either way, he's fucked and I think we've heard our last release under the name As I Lay Dying. 

Luckily, I've gotten to see them 4 or 5 times.... They were never my favorite but I can't deny that I've jammed out hard to them in my car over the years. I'll still like - remember to separate the art from the artist.


----------



## tacotiklah (May 8, 2013)

I get that there are some metalheads that are completely off the deep end (Varg Vikernes comes to mind), but it's pretty few and far between, especially these days. I dunno, my shock was aimed at the fact that it's not every day that you see a pretty well known and generally well regarded metal musician just up and snap like that. 

That said, if the guy is innocent then no worries and bummer about the legal battle that he has to go through. But if he's guilty, then he will have ruined his life, his reputation, and (very likely) his career. I honestly hold no stake in either outcome of this upcoming trial, and I really do hope that it's just a false accusation. This is pretty serious stuff to be accused of though, and in most cases the feds wouldn't be going apeshit over this if they didn't have something they thought was solid proof. Again, nobody knows shit yet (least of all me, as I was recently reminded) so it's a waiting game at this point.


----------



## 4000 (May 9, 2013)

i'm pretty sure his ex wants half his money from the divorce (for doing no work at all) and she was probably going to get it. I wouldn't be surprised, as i'm sure with AILD popularity he probably has a lot more money than we all think he does.

I dont think hes going to get jail time, but he's definitely going to get fined heavily and probably be on some sort of probation.

Any lawyers feel like chiming in?


----------



## flint757 (May 9, 2013)

No jail time for a felony charge is only likely if the charges are dropped or lowered to something other than a felony. I don't know much about law, but I'm fairly certain felonies have mandatory minimum prison time.


----------



## tacotiklah (May 9, 2013)

Murder for hire is very serious stuff. As in 25-life serious. If convicted, Tim will be going away for a very long time. He can opt for a plea deal, which I figure can mean he'll be out in 5-10 years, depending upon what stipulations the D.A. and his attorney figure out.

The only way he won't do jail time is if he is acquitted. But even that is not true since he will have to stay in jail until he posts bail.


----------



## 3074326 (May 9, 2013)

ghstofperdition said:


> Why is this baffling? Just about every metalhead I've ever met are chill, relaxed people that tend to keep to themselves and for the most part stay out of trouble. Just because they like music that has lyrics about death, dismemberment, etc. doesn't mean that they actually condone or aspire to commit those acts.



Every large group of people consists of the same types of people. Good people, bad people, fucking crazy people, quiet people, etc. No exceptions.


----------



## Nyx Erebos (May 9, 2013)

4000 said:


> i'm pretty sure his ex wants half his money from the divorce (for doing no work at all) and she was probably going to get it. I wouldn't be surprised, as i'm sure with AILD popularity he probably has a lot more money than we all think he does.



It's something you must be prepared for when you get married. I don't know in the US but in France it's not even questionnable, the money is split 50/50. And I don't think losing money justify taking the life of someone (maybe there's children involved ? I don't know if they have some). If money was a concern if I were him I would have thought "time to buy a shitload of gear and send it overseas"


----------



## lucasreis (May 9, 2013)

ghstofperdition said:


> When I first found out about this, I was floored. I've never really gotten into AILD, but this rocked me pretty hard all the same because I really could not ever envision a metal musician doing something this evil and heinous.
> 
> He'll have his day in court obviously, so we'll see how this plays out. If it turns out that he did indeed do what he is accused of, then he is scum and AILD would be way better off without him. There is nothing justifiable about trying to kill your wife, and it's even more cowardly to me to want to hire someone else to do your dirty work.



Ever heard of Varg Vykernes??


----------



## Nile (May 9, 2013)

lucasreis said:


> Ever heard of Varg Vykernes??



Dude he killed was even more fucked in the head.


----------



## MrYakob (May 9, 2013)

lucasreis said:


> Ever heard of Varg Vykernes??





ghstofperdition said:


> I get that there are some metalheads that are completely off the deep end (Varg Vikernes comes to mind)


----------



## lucasreis (May 9, 2013)

Nile said:


> Dude he killed was even more fucked in the head.



True, true. Can't argue with that.


----------



## lucasreis (May 9, 2013)

MrYakob said:


>



I lost the part where he knew about Varg.

Still... this Tim Lambesis story is creepy as hell and it disappointed me.


----------



## Goro923 (May 9, 2013)

HOLY SHIT I FOUND PROOF HE'S AN ACTUAL MURDERER!

HE'S THE HOUND!!!!!!














I kid, I kid 

I really hope this is some huge misunderstanding.


----------



## lucasreis (May 9, 2013)

Goro923 said:


> HOLY SHIT I FOUND PROOF HE'S AN ACTUAL MURDERER!
> 
> HE'S THE HOUND!!!!!!
> 
> ...


----------



## Riffer (May 9, 2013)

As soon as I heard about this I wondered if it had something to do with his body building hobby.
BLABBERMOUTH.NET - TIM LAMBESIS Was 'Obsessed With Bodybuilding' And 'Unavailable' To His Children, Says His Wife


----------



## wankerness (May 9, 2013)

That hound comparison is awesome


----------



## datalore (May 9, 2013)

Maybe he'll pull a Pete Townshend and argue that he was just doing research, and trying to demonstrate how easy it would be to hire someone for murder.


----------



## Goro923 (May 9, 2013)

wankerness said:


> That hound comparison is awesome



I know right? It was bugging me 'cause I was sure he reminded me of someone but couldn't quite place him.


----------



## BucketheadRules (May 9, 2013)

Nile said:


> Dude he killed was even more fucked in the head.



Definitely - this point doesn't get raised enough.

Varg is a turd, yeah, but as far as I can work out, Euronymous was genuinely insane.

While I'm not going to be disgusting and say I'm "glad" he was killed, I'd be lying if I said the world is a worse place with him being gone.


----------



## tacotiklah (May 9, 2013)

ghstofperdition said:


> I get that there are some metalheads that are completely off the deep end (Varg Vikernes comes to mind)





lucasreis said:


> Ever heard of Varg Vykernes??





Nope, never heard of that name before. Sounds like a humble, loving, tolerant christian man though...


----------



## yingmin (May 9, 2013)

ghstofperdition said:


> Nope, never heard of that name before. Sounds like a humble, loving, tolerant christian man though...



Ironically, his birth name was Kristian.


----------



## cwhitey2 (May 9, 2013)

I wonder if the police have video evidence?

If they dont its going to be hard (or atleast it should be) to convict him.


----------



## brutalwizard (May 9, 2013)

cwhitey2 said:


> I wonder if the police have video evidence?
> 
> If they dont its going to be hard (or atleast it should be) to convict him.



I imagine they would I have seen 2-3 videos on tv over the years of people committing this very crime.

I think the one I saw on dateline (or similar show) They even met the lady outside a barnes and nobles.


----------



## Fat-Elf (May 9, 2013)

Bodybuilding, not even once..

I wonder what happens to all those Kickstarter rewards, like the one where you get Mr. Lambesis as your personal trainer for a week.


----------



## Randy (May 9, 2013)

Fat-Elf said:


> I wonder what happens to all those Kickstarter rewards, like the one where you get Mr. Lambesis as your personal trainer for a week.



Conjugal visits?


----------



## Don Vito (May 9, 2013)

ghstofperdition said:


> Nope, never heard of that name before. Sounds like a humble, loving, tolerant christian man though...




Only a true Christian would proclaim that homosexuality is a Jewish invention to keep Europeans from mating


----------



## RevDrucifer (May 9, 2013)

They most likely have audio.

My guess is Lambesis asked around for someone to find him a hitman, someone he asked went to the cops, from there a detective probably told the guy to go back and set up a meeting. A plain clothed cop wearing a wire met Tim at BaN, Tim told him what he wanted done and then BAM, the Po-Po busts out of the flower delivery truck in the parking lot, rushes to Tim....sees he's a giant, runs back to the flower delivery truck, asks a few more guys to come with them, THEN go bust Tim.


----------



## cwhitey2 (May 9, 2013)

brutalwizard said:


> I imagine they would I have seen 2-3 videos on tv over the years of people committing this very crime.
> 
> I think the one I saw on dateline (or similar show) They even met the lady outside a barnes and nobles.



Exactly. I have seen videos as well.

If I was on the jury, im not convicting anyone on hear say.


----------



## Kwirk (May 9, 2013)

> *Meggan Lambesis*, who submitted a 2010 tax return showing the couple's* $233,000 in gross income*


What.


----------



## The Reverend (May 9, 2013)

Wow, dude made $233,000? This makes me rethink just how much I believe people in world-famous bands when they say they don't make much.


----------



## RevDrucifer (May 9, 2013)

The tax return was for the COUPLE'S income, meaning both, not just Tim's. The article said she was a private school teacher before quitting and staying at home. So part of that $233K is hers. A private school teacher can make jack shit or make bank depending on where they are at.


----------



## yingmin (May 9, 2013)

RevDrucifer said:


> The tax return was for the COUPLE'S income, meaning both, not just Tim's. The article said she was a private school teacher before quitting and staying at home. So part of that $233K is hers. A private school teacher can make jack shit or make bank depending on where they are at.



Also, he produces and manages other bands, which provides additional income beyond what he makes just being a member of AILD. Not to mention that the tax return is his gross income, most of which he probably hadn't paid taxes on at that point.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (May 9, 2013)

AS I LAY DYING's Tim Lambesis Pleas Not Guilty In Solicitation of Murder Case - Metal Injection | Tim Lambesis Trial | Metal Injection


----------



## flint757 (May 9, 2013)

cwhitey2 said:


> I wonder if the police have video evidence?
> 
> If they dont its going to be hard (or atleast it should be) to convict him.





RevDrucifer said:


> They most likely have audio.
> 
> My guess is Lambesis asked around for someone to find him a hitman, someone he asked went to the cops, from there a detective probably told the guy to go back and set up a meeting. A plain clothed cop wearing a wire met Tim at BaN, Tim told him what he wanted done and then BAM, the Po-Po busts out of the flower delivery truck in the parking lot, rushes to Tim....sees he's a giant, runs back to the flower delivery truck, asks a few more guys to come with them, THEN go bust Tim.




Yeah they most likely have audio otherwise a sting operation would have been rather pointless. They may even have video, but they definitely have audio.


----------



## The Reverend (May 9, 2013)

RevDrucifer said:


> The tax return was for the COUPLE'S income, meaning both, not just Tim's. The article said she was a private school teacher before quitting and staying at home. So part of that $233K is hers. A private school teacher can make jack shit or make bank depending on where they are at.






yingmin said:


> Also, he produces and manages other bands, which provides additional income beyond what he makes just being a member of AILD. Not to mention that the tax return is his gross income, most of which he probably hadn't paid taxes on at that point.



He made enough to where she could quit working and he could get tattoos and expensive cars and want to kill her instead of splitting half his assets with her.


----------



## linchpin (May 9, 2013)

Who hires Hitmen these days? It's a dead profession.


----------



## RevDrucifer (May 9, 2013)

Another news story with some more info. Who knows how credible it is, but here ya go-

Tim Lambesis - music - entertainment | Stuff.co.nz


----------



## trianglebutt (May 9, 2013)

I feel fucking terrible for those kids right now.


----------



## s_k_mullins (May 9, 2013)

In all of this, I really feel sorry for their 3 adopted children. It's such a fucked up thing to even try to mentally process.


----------



## Alexxx (May 9, 2013)

Hey guys -- look at the bright side:

At least in a couple months we can safely add this to the ss org memes list and it'll be funny by then, disgusting as it is now.


----------



## Jake (May 9, 2013)

RevDrucifer said:


> Another news story with some more info. Who knows how credible it is, but here ya go-
> 
> Tim Lambesis - music - entertainment | Stuff.co.nz


If that information is accurate *IF *it is, then he is a fucking idiot and deserves everything he gets. I dont care how much I love AILD and how much they impacted my life that is just terrible. Just a terrible story all around.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (May 9, 2013)

I feel the same way. I'm not a fan of AILD, but I loved Austrian Death Machine and I was REALLY looking foward to Pyrithion. It leaves more than a sour taste in my mouth if he gets convicted.


----------



## devolutionary (May 9, 2013)

RevDrucifer said:


> Another news story with some more info. Who knows how credible it is, but here ya go-
> 
> Tim Lambesis - music - entertainment | Stuff.co.nz



You found the stuff article? It's always weird to see Kiwi stuff around here...


----------



## gunshow86de (May 9, 2013)

With video of the arraignment. 

MetalSucks | Video from Tim Labesis&#8217; Arraignment; More Details of Prosecution&#8217;s Alleged Case Revealed



> Lambesis e-mailed his wife, Meggan, in August to say he didn&#8217;t love her anymore and didn&#8217;t believe in God anymore. Shortly thereafter, she learned that Lambesis had had multiple affairs and filed for divorce.
> Lambesis twice approached other members of his gym and asked if they knew anyone who could have Meggan killed.
> Once authorities became aware of Lambesis&#8217; plans, they set up a sting operation. On May 7 he met with an undercover detective posing as a hitman named &#8220;Red.&#8221;
> Lambesis believed &#8220;that it&#8217;s better for his children to have one healthy relationship with one parent rather than two unhealthy ones.&#8221;
> ...



If they can prove it, Timmy is fucked.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (May 9, 2013)

Good fucking lord.


----------



## CrownofWorms (May 9, 2013)

I really hope this is not true and I highly doubt this even happened. But, this really isn't a new thing when a metal musician does some fucked up shit. It just happens so rarely

A couple years ago one of the original guitarist of Decrepit Birth (other than Matt) the main reason why they progressed to the sound they have now as apposed to keeping the ATB sound was charged with rape of a minor. Horribly fucked up

We all know the story of Mayhem, Dead, Euronymous and church burnings

Varg Vikerness........................do I need to say more

It's not really screwed up but I remember like last year the bassist for Nile was charged with having a lot of pot and money (I'm not really a supporter of drugs, but I feel things like this are not needed to be taken as the same level as murder)

But I mainly feel like the media always tries to target innocent people more so than people that actually do crimes. Especially when it came to the Randy Blythe trial. It is much easier to attack an innocent artist with high status that plays in a largely stereotyped as dangerous music with some sort of fame. 

It's funny an artist that could be innocent or a normal civilian that just happens to play a game like COD and smokes a lot of pot everyday gets arrested in a heartbeat and will probably find the easiest, not even true reason to get arrested and will take time to figure out an innocent man in months to years back to back while the true criminals almost seem to never obtain justice for their heinous acts. But most of these people are the ones that may work in big corporations.  

But this is all just theory. I'm just a senior in High School that has been studying this stuff for the past few weeks in Sociology/Psychology classes.


----------



## Jake (May 9, 2013)

well......shit 

not looking good at all for that defense.


----------



## flint757 (May 9, 2013)

Well with audio, witnesses and a bit of a paper trail I honestly don't see how he can walk away from this with a win nor do I want him to. The police did the sting and they have nothing to gain by busting him so it is unlikely that this is a 'misunderstanding' or an instance of someone being framed like I've heard some people say (not necessarily here). While I won't say he is definitely guilty I have a feeling he is.


----------



## Xiphos68 (May 9, 2013)

This is a very, very, very dissapointing day...



Tim was such an influence on me and As I Lay Dying was one of the first metal band I started listening to.


----------



## Riffer (May 9, 2013)

That video of his arraignment is nuts. Seeing him behind a protective window and in that prison attire is fucking mind blowing. The more stuff comes out the more it looks like he might be going away. But for him to plead not guilty is weird since now if he is found guilty he will more then likely get the max sentence since he didn't take a plea deal it seems. The look on his face is so weird too. He almsot looks like he's guilty you know? He has the expression that he knows he fucked up but is just more upset that he got caught. This is a messed up situation all the way around. What a bummer for everyone involed. The kids, family, band, fans, everyone.......except Tim if he's guilty, then he deserves everything he gets.


----------



## anomynous (May 9, 2013)

The prosecutor lists all that evidence, has the audio recording, and there's still doubt this happened?


----------



## Riffer (May 9, 2013)

anomynous said:


> The prosecutor lists all that evidence, has the audio recording, and there's still doubt this happened?


 There's still a lot of information that we don't know. Crazier shit has happened and people have still been found not guilty (OJ Simpson).


----------



## Jake (May 9, 2013)

anomynous said:


> The prosecutor lists all that evidence, has the audio recording, and there's still doubt this happened?


The amount of people who are still commenting on the bands page and such saying that it has to be a setup or a publicity stunt amazes me. Although they are the same people who think everything in the universe is a setup so thats no surprise.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (May 9, 2013)

Riffer said:


> The look on his face is so weird too. He almsot looks like he's guilty you know?



Yeah, it's really bizarre to see it...


----------



## RevDrucifer (May 9, 2013)

Something I thought was very odd at the bottom of the MetalSucks article-



> _Major thanks: Saul Hudson_



That's Slash' birth name.


----------



## Xiphos68 (May 9, 2013)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Yeah, it's really bizarre to see it...



Yeah. I get the same feeling.

I have never ever seen him look like that.


----------



## yingmin (May 9, 2013)

gunshow86de said:


> Lambesis believed &#8220;that it&#8217;s better for his children to have one healthy relationship with one parent rather than two unhealthy ones.&#8221;


Certainly can't argue with that logic. 



Riffer said:


> There's still a lot of information that we don't know. Crazier shit has happened and people have still been found not guilty (OJ Simpson).



Whether he did it and whether he'll be convicted of doing it are two very different things, and there is no better example of this than OJ.


----------



## Curt (May 9, 2013)

What the fucking fuck!?


----------



## Zerox8610 (May 9, 2013)

This is devastating to me... AILD was also one of my first metal bands, and 2 of their albums are still among my favorite albums today.

I can't say anything about the guy on a personal level, but he always seemed like a regular dude like any of us (Besides the super lifting) .... I hope that this isn't true..


----------



## Tyler (May 9, 2013)

Rocker Tim Lambesis pleads not guilty in murder-for-hire case - latimes.com


----------



## VBCheeseGrater (May 9, 2013)

yingmin said:


> I don't know why he thought an undercover detective would help him kill his wife. That's just asking for trouble.



AHAHAHAHAHA! I lol'd

poor bastard, crazy what love (or perhaps sheer hatred) will make a man do.

EDIT: only $1000?? he should have known right there it was a setup. Maybe Motherfucker Jones would do it for a grand, but other than that...


----------



## Breakdown (May 9, 2013)

VBCheeseGrater said:


> AHAHAHAHAHA! I lol'd
> 
> poor bastard, crazy what love (or perhaps sheer hatred) will make a man do.
> 
> EDIT: only $1000?? he should have known right there it was a setup. Maybe Motherfucker Jones would do it for a grand, but other than that...



Exactly what I thought. I wonder what he was thinking when he was charged so little for so much. "$1000? What a bargain!"


----------



## Joose (May 9, 2013)

I was really looking forward to more Pyrithion. Tim is a great vocalist.


----------



## Chuck (May 10, 2013)

RevDrucifer said:


> The tax return was for the COUPLE'S income, meaning both, not just Tim's. The article said she was a private school teacher before quitting and staying at home. So part of that $233K is hers. A private school teacher can make jack shit or make bank depending on where they are at.



Most if not all private school teachers make jack shit in comparison to public school teachers soo...


----------



## flint757 (May 10, 2013)

There'd be no reason for him to flip over the divorce if she was well off either as she'd rightly own half their money if that were the case. 

I'm curious what happened to shift his perspective so dramatically. I mean I'm not even kind of religious, but for someone whom to many appeared strong of faith to move on to basically saying 'fuck that shit' is rather odd. And he tells his wife the same day he basically hates her. Something happened that day. That's more interesting than the dumbass move of buying a cheap ass hitman who not surprisingly was an undercover cop.


----------



## trianglebutt (May 10, 2013)

If the information presented so far is true, he is an absolute idiot and I hope he gets a nice little prison sentence so he can think about how fucking stupid he is. He can especially think about the impact this will have on his kids and family. The divorce without a doubt already sucked for his kids, and now they have to deal with this shit.


----------



## abandonist (May 10, 2013)

4000 said:


> i'm pretty sure his ex wants half his money from the divorce (for doing no work at all)



You have no idea how adult relationships work.

This is perversely misogynistic.


----------



## flint757 (May 10, 2013)

Yeah and based on what little I've read he rarely was around and hardly ever took care of the children at all. That means she took care of the bills, house, children, etc. AND worked (even if she stopped at a point). Whereas he cheated, traveled around the world, and was living the 'rock dream'. Poor him. It probably wasn't just her idea to stop working either; people do this crazy thing in relationships like make decisions together.


----------



## M3CHK1LLA (May 10, 2013)

if this all turns out to be true he needs this shirt...


----------



## 4000 (May 10, 2013)

abandonist said:


> You have no idea how adult relationships work.
> 
> This is perversely misogynistic.



says the ultracrepidarian


----------



## Yo_Wattup (May 10, 2013)

Not sure if this has been posted yet... my apologies if so.

Shocking TIM LAMBESIS Arraignment Video Surfaces Revealing Prosecution's Case - Metal Injection | Tim Lambesis Trial | Metal Injection

What a piece of shit of a human being. Killing your wife is one thing.. but killing YOUR CHILDREN'S MOTHER is another. Hope he rots. 

To the guys negging my last comment... grow a dick.. fanboys.


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## abandonist (May 10, 2013)

4000 said:


> says the ultracrepidarian



I've been married for 7 years.

Whatcha' got?

Aside from an ancient word?


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## The Reverend (May 10, 2013)

Why are you people saying that you're sad? Why are you sad? Because a guy you like or look up to got stopped before he had his wife killed? Is this the kind of shit that makes your day a little less kickass!? Holy shit.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (May 10, 2013)

The thought of one of your idols stooping this low isn't really something to be happy about.

Of course it's a good thing that the police stopped the man before he could find a real hitman, but for someone you looked up to, possibly for years, to be this kind of scum... Yeah, its not exactly something to be cheerful about.

That's one thing. But trying to be in denial and to sympathize for him is a another thing.


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## linchpin (May 10, 2013)

When your hitman says his name is "Red"... that's a dead giveaway right there.


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## skisgaar (May 10, 2013)

Misery Theory said:


> Most if not all private school teachers make jack shit in comparison to public school teachers soo...



I never heard this....but I don't live in America, so maybe it's different over here.


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## Maku (May 10, 2013)

Well, I guess she must have deserved it.


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## skisgaar (May 10, 2013)

Maku said:


> Well, I guess she must have deserved it.



Inb4 people don't get sarcasm.


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## Nats (May 10, 2013)

When you post "want to kill my wife, where can I find a hitman for cheap? lmao" on your band's fb page, you're just asking to get undercover cops involved.


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## btm_fdr (May 10, 2013)

linchpin said:


> When your hitman says his name is "Red"... that's a dead giveaway right there.



pretty sure thats just a fake name for use in court? i could be wrong


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## gunshow86de (May 10, 2013)

linchpin said:


> When your hitman says his name is "Red"... that's a dead giveaway right there.



I'll take care of it bro...........


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## Randy (May 10, 2013)

The Reverend said:


> Why are you people saying that you're sad? Why are you sad? Because a guy you like or look up to got stopped before he had his wife killed? Is this the kind of shit that makes your day a little less kickass!? Holy shit.



Um, no, because somebody people looked up to ended up being a colossal dickbag and will not be producing music anymore, as a result.

I fail to so how you interpreted that differently?


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## eaeolian (May 10, 2013)

Yo_Wattup said:


> To the guys negging my last comment... grow a dick.. fanboys.



Grow some sense when you resume posting in a week.


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## Jinogalpa (May 10, 2013)

oh man, i can't listen to AILD anymore. when i hear his voice i have to think that he's a criminal


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## bifftannen (May 10, 2013)

I really hope this isn't true but I think its hope against hope because you can't just explain away meeting with someone and saying expressly that you want to have your wife killed. That said though I strongly believe a man is innocent before proven guilty and people shouldn't rush to judgement over what they read/hear in the press; metal injection and the BBC is hardly scientific proof.

When you think about it its been a shit few years for metal in this sense: Randy from Lamb of God being accused of manslaughter, That guy from Lost Prophets arrested for kiddie fiddling, Jeff Hanneman dying of a million to one shot bite from a spider and now this...


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## yingmin (May 10, 2013)

flint757 said:


> There'd be no reason for him to flip over the divorce if she was well off either as she'd rightly own half their money if that were the case.


Consider that he might not have been operating on cold, machine-like logic.


Yo_Wattup said:


> What a piece of shit of a human being. Killing your wife is one thing.. but killing YOUR CHILDREN'S MOTHER is another. Hope he rots.



The children were all adopted, and based on the circumstances, I have to question how much of a genuine connection Tim has with them.


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## engage757 (May 10, 2013)

bifftannen said:


> Jeff Hanneman dying of a million to one shot bite from a spider and now this...



Hanneman died from cirrhosis of the liver?


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## Jake (May 10, 2013)

engage757 said:


> Hanneman died from cirrhosis of the liver?


Yes, I don't see how people keep saying it was the spider bite after they already said cirrhosis was the cause of death.

OT: I'm not gonna stop listening to AILD just because of this, the rest of the band had nothing to do with it and they make up just as much of the bands sound as Tim did.


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## Joose (May 10, 2013)

^This.

An AILD song is quite obviously AILD long before the vocals start.


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## bifftannen (May 10, 2013)

engage757 said:


> Hanneman died from cirrhosis of the liver?



I knew this would come up. I read that the cirrhosis was caused by the spider bite but turns out now it was down to alcohol. Anyway the point is its been a strange couple of years for metal?


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## datalore (May 10, 2013)

Based on the arraignment video (Shocking TIM LAMBESIS Arraignment Video Surfaces Revealing Prosecution's Case - Metal Injection | Tim Lambesis Trial | Metal Injection) it looks like the prosecution has a very strong case here. They have Tim on tape, asking the undercover agent to kill his wife. They also have an envelope that Tim gave to the agent, containing $1000, pictures of his wife, her address, and gate codes to access the house. I can't see any way that he won't be going to jail for a very long time.

It's hard to imagine that he would be stupid enough to go around asking people at his gym about finding someone to kill his wife, but it sounds like that's what he did.


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## engage757 (May 10, 2013)

datalore said:


> It's hard to imagine that someone who wanted to kill his wife would be stupid enough to go around asking people at his gym about it, but it sounds like that's what he did.



I have a real hard time imagining that he would be this all-around stupid, but I guess we will see!


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## M3CHK1LLA (May 10, 2013)

datalore said:


> ...It's hard to imagine that someone who wanted to kill his wife would be stupid enough to go around asking people at his gym about it, but it sounds like that's what he did.



so much for "what happens at the gym, stays at the gym"


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## gunshow86de (May 10, 2013)

datalore said:


> It's hard to imagine that someone who wanted to kill his wife would be stupid enough to go around asking people at his gym about it, but it sounds like that's what he did.



"Bro, do you even (do) hits?"


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## Chuck (May 10, 2013)

skisgaar said:


> I never heard this....but I don't live in America, so maybe it's different over here.



Yeah this is how it is in America since private schools don't have to follow government regulations like public schools do.


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## no_dice (May 10, 2013)

Joose said:


> ^This.
> 
> An AILD song is quite obviously AILD long before the vocals start.



Yeah, no offense to Tim, but even as a fan of AILD, I think they could easily find a new singer who would be just fine.


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## Konfyouzd (May 10, 2013)

MikeH said:


> Well she didn't die, soooo......



Dy-ING... It's a process...


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## Konfyouzd (May 10, 2013)

Randy said:


> Um, no, because somebody people looked up to ended up being a colossal dickbag and will not be producing music anymore, as a result.
> 
> I fail to so how you interpreted that differently?



You have to be a cynic... Duh... C'mon, Randy!

But I can see it... When ppl actually *do* die all you see is ppl writing "Oh this is so sad." Not that it isn 't, but in text sometimes it's hard to differentiate...


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## Konfyouzd (May 10, 2013)

engage757 said:


> I have a real hard time imagining that he would be this all-around stupid, but I guess we will see!



Woman buys coffee at McDonalds...

Woman spills coffee on self knowing it was hot--EXPECTING it to be hot...

Coffee burns woman

Woman sues...

Woman wins...

You find it hard to believe anyone would be stupid enough to ask ppl at their local gym to kill their wife for them?

OJ Simpson almost definitely killed his wife either himself or had someone do it and the wrote a book titled "If I did it..." 

Not only that, but LITERALLY GOT AWAY WITH MURDER and then gets arrested for armed robbery... 

You find it hard to believe anyone would be this stupid?

Donald Trump ran for president...

Stop me when I reach a sufficient level of stupidity for you believe a man might ask someone at his gym to kill a woman that's currently getting on his nerves...


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## Rap Hat (May 10, 2013)

The McDonald's coffee case wasn't a case of "dumb woman spills coffee" - McDonald's had shit cups that didn't seal properly and served their coffee at temperatures waaaaaaaaay too hot (around 200f, where normal serving temps are supposed to be 150-175f). If you've seen the pictures of her completely destroyed/fused labia (google this, seriously. its a LOT worse than you'd expect) then you should consider "wow, last time I spilled coffee on my pants that didn't happen!" Also McD's had settled in over 400 suits about that exact issue by the time the woman sued, as they figured it was cheaper to pay out than actually fix the issue. In the end she got some (I don't think it was all) of her medical bills covered, but it wasn't a huge windfall like people seem to think.

E: while it wasn't exactly wise of her to put it in her lap, it also wasn't reasonable for her to expect the kind of damage it did.


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## engage757 (May 10, 2013)

I just wonder if it was all idle pumped up jibber jabber shit-talking at a gym that someone rolled on Tim over, and set him up in some form of entrapment. And on top of that, $1k to kill someone?! EVERY decent, self-respecting criminal knows the going rate is $15k a head.


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## Rap Hat (May 10, 2013)

engage757 said:


> I just wonder if it was all idle pumped up jibber jabber shit-talking at a gym that someone rolled on Tim over, and set him up in some form of entrapment. And on top of that, $1k to kill someone?! EVERY decent, self-respecting criminal knows the going rate is $15k a head.



How would they entrap him? Even if it was idle chatter and he didn't "mean" it, when someone contacted him he chose to meet up with an envelope full of cash, pictures, garage codes, times, and shit on how to kill his wife. That goes well beyond the point of just messing around. Maybe he wasn't 100% serious in the gym, but being approached by a "hitman" was the push he needed. That's still entirely his fault.


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## Konfyouzd (May 10, 2013)

Fair enough Rap Hat. I for one thought the smart thing to do would be to not drink beverages known to be hot in a vehicle that might hit bumps or flat out crash, but coffee isn't an addiction I have so I can't fully empathize I suppose. 

For it to be an "acceptable drinking temperature" it would have been hot enough to burn her anyway and to me the severity of the burn was just icing on the cake when she decided to sue. The fact that ppl can sue for so many things in this country is already ridiculous to me. And in many cases for far more money than they're out having gone through what they did. Money doesn't reverse or even guarantee treatment for "emotional" damage but if she only sued for associated medical bills I could see that as being reasonable.


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## yingmin (May 10, 2013)

Konfyouzd said:


> For it to be an "acceptable drinking temperature" it would have been hot enough to burn her anyway and to me the severity of the burn was just icing on the cake when she decided to sue. The fact that ppl can sue for so many things in this country is already ridiculous to me. And in many cases for far more money than they're out having gone through what they did. Money doesn't reverse or even guarantee treatment for "emotional" damage but if she only sued for associated medical bills I could see that as being reasonable.



There's a big difference between coffee hot enough to scald you and coffee hot enough to give you third degree burns.


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## datalore (May 10, 2013)

Another strange/dumb thing about Tim's actions is that he seemed to believe that he wouldn't be linked to the murder just because he couldn't have carried it out himself. It was common knowledge that he and his wife were in the process of divorcing. Who else would have had a motive to kill an innocent mother of three children in her own home?


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## skisgaar (May 10, 2013)

Food for thought?


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## Rap Hat (May 10, 2013)

Konfyouzd said:


> Fair enough Rap Hat. I for one thought the smart thing to do would be to not drink beverages known to be hot in a vehicle that might hit bumps or flat out crash, but coffee isn't an addiction I have so I can't fully empathize I suppose.
> 
> For it to be an "acceptable drinking temperature" it would have been hot enough to burn her anyway and to me the severity of the burn was just icing on the cake when she decided to sue. The fact that ppl can sue for so many things in this country is already ridiculous to me. And in many cases for far more money than they're out having gone through what they did. Money doesn't reverse or even guarantee treatment for "emotional" damage but if she only sued for associated medical bills I could see that as being reasonable.



I had the same "what a frivolous load of bullshit" stance for the longest time until a lawyer buddy told me to actually read what happened. It was surprising considering how it was (and still is) portrayed. While there are far too many genuinely frivolous suits out there, the McDonald's one was a culmination of bad business practices going unchecked thanks to the low cost of settlements and someone doing something dumb that a lot of people do and ending up with completely absurd injuries.

Side note: even though it was reported that she won 2.7mil, the final judgement was for $640,000 and the actual end settlement was even less. She'd also attempted to settle with McDs for much much less before the actual suit ($20,000) but they refused . She also wasn't driving at the time; she was a passenger in her son's car, and they were stopped.

E: I was wrong about the end financial result in my other post; I was going off memory and had confused the original pre trial sought after settlement with the final result (the $20,000 would've covered her medical bills for the most part and a small amount for lost income)


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## Hybrid138 (May 10, 2013)

I can't believe there hasn't been an insanity plea or something. I think with the evidence given, believing the dude has actually lost his mind would kinda make sense. To just completely flip on his beliefs on religion, marriage, and murder...


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## Ginsu (May 10, 2013)

This is actually really depressing for me. As I Lay Dying was the band that got me into metal. I literally started writing music because of that band. They faded from my favorite over time, but still...this is...ugh. :/


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## Breakdown (May 10, 2013)

Hybrid138 said:


> I can't believe there hasn't been an insanity plea or something. I think with the evidence given, believing the dude has actually lost his mind would kinda make sense. To just completely flip on his beliefs on religion, marriage, and murder...


I wouldn't be suprised if the guy was using steroids. Roids can cause a person's emotions to go out of whack and lead to shitty decision making (according to the Association Against Steroid Abuse). It does not excuse his actions, but it could be an explanation for them.

EDIT: Guess I was wrong about the roids, but based on what his wife said the dude definitely had some sort of mental problem.


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## gunshow86de (May 11, 2013)

Breakdown said:


> Roids can cause a person's emotions to go out of whack and lead to shitty decision making (according to the Association Against Steroid Abuse).


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## engage757 (May 11, 2013)

Rap Hat said:


> How would they entrap him? Even if it was idle chatter and he didn't "mean" it, when someone contacted him he chose to meet up with an envelope full of cash, pictures, garage codes, times, and shit on how to kill his wife. That goes well beyond the point of just messing around. Maybe he wasn't 100% serious in the gym, but being approached by a "hitman" was the push he needed. That's still entirely his fault.



Guess we will find out, just playing devil's advocate. Although, the "push" he needed, could be a fine line of entrapment, we won't know until trial unfortunately.


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## flint757 (May 11, 2013)

Not really dude. I could suggest that you need to murder your mom (hypothetically ) and while that may make me a terrible person, if you actually did it that is all on you. What happened to him was not entrapment in the sense that he attempted/admitted to doing something he wasn't actually going to do. Whether he was helped on crossing the line is moot if he actually crossed the line which he absolutely did based on the evidence stacked against him. We are all responsible for our own actions.


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## Dwellingers (May 11, 2013)

Breakdown said:


> I wouldn't be suprised if the guy was using steroids. Roids can cause a person's emotions to go out of whack and lead to shitty decision making (according to the Association Against Steroid Abuse). It does not excuse his actions, but it could be an explanation for them.



Pure Broscience, dude ... He was probably unstabele metally which caused his emotions to go out of wack ...


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## watson503 (May 11, 2013)

Breakdown said:


> I wouldn't be suprised if the guy was using steroids. Roids can cause a person's emotions to go out of whack and lead to shitty decision making (according to the Association Against Steroid Abuse). It does not excuse his actions, but it could be an explanation for them.



I used steroids off-and-on for almost 15 years while competing in powerlifting - they may make you want to bang anything in a skirt - well, almost anything - but they do not make you go to the extreme of seeking a hitman to murder your wife. Think about it, if testosterone caused such reactions, every male that went through puberty would be a criminal.


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## Jakke (May 11, 2013)

Breakdown said:


> I wouldn't be suprised if the guy was using steroids. Roids can cause a person's emotions to go out of whack and lead to shitty decision making (according to the Association Against Steroid Abuse). It does not excuse his actions, but it could be an explanation for them.



1. This is very premeditated, not impulsive like one would expect from someone using steroids.
2. He simply does not look like he is using steroids, he has the sort of ropy muscles that one would expect from someone who got them naturally (there seems to be quite strong observational evidence that steroid muscle often "looks" different than natural, especially in terms of how it stands out, hardness, and how vascular it is).

*EDIT* To expand (since there might be people needing it), one can probably rule out steroid use based on some things: they are for example really effective. Someone who uses steroids when they train gain muscles at a rate of about three times faster than someone who "just" train (fun fact, someone who uses steroids actually gain muscles by not doing any training at all). This means that people who uses steroids swell up very quickly, and as such there is a very small window between "relatively untrained" and "huge". Tim Lambesis is not by any means huge, and has been this size for a number of years. I therefore find it very unlikely that he is using any artificial enhancers. Furthermore, if he is using them, we'd see him shrink down relatively quickly in police custody.
Add to this that he:
-Is a part of a band that tours internationally full-time (which includes flying), and has not once been busted for possession of illegal substances. This would also be very statistically unlikely if he actually used steroids, as they require continous usage, and therefore would need him to use on tour. Following this line, if he had have stopped using on tour, he would have had shrunk down pretty drastically, and had skin flaps etc. 
This is of course not the case.
-Has not exhibited any extreme violent behaviour, behaviour that one would expect from someone who uses steroids, such as beating up annoying fans, beating the guy who cut him off in traffic with a tire-iron, domestic violence (except trying to hire a hitman to finish his ex-wife of course) etc.
-Has not displayed any of the side-effects of usage, such as powerful acne, stretch-marks, tits or losing hair.

The traps and the triceps (the whole upper body musculature really) also has a lot more of what smart people refer to as "androgen receptors". This means that they react stronger, a lot stronger to testosterone and dihydrotestosterone. In someone who uses steroids, these are very often disproportionate. They are not that in Lambesis, which adds to that he is probably not using steroids.

Circumstantial? You bet, but that's a lot of circumstances


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## datalore (May 11, 2013)

flint757 said:


> Not really dude. I could suggest that you need to murder your mom (hypothetically ) and while that may make me a terrible person, if you actually did it that is all on you. What happened to him was not entrapment in the sense that he attempted/admitted to doing something he wasn't actually going to do. Whether he was helped on crossing the line is moot if he actually crossed the line which he absolutely did based on the evidence stacked against him. We are all responsible for our own actions.



This. Entrapment is when someone in law enforcement tricks you into doing something illegal that you weren't already planning to do. In this case, it sounds like law enforcement merely provided Tim with the opportunity to do what he was already planning to do.


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## engage757 (May 11, 2013)

Again, still trying to play devil's advocate here, but would it surprise any of you to find out that the guy at the gym who went to the cops with this information was recently arrested?


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## flint757 (May 11, 2013)

Is it somehow relevant? Say that is how they found out, because he snitched in the slammer, the words still came out of his own mouth with great ease (plus the murder kit he basically gave to the cop).


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## engage757 (May 11, 2013)

Did you see this yet?

BLABBERMOUTH.NET - AS I LAY DYING Frontman's Attorney Says TIM LAMBESIS Initially Faced Life Sentence

Faced Life Sentence - May 11, 2013
AS I LAY DYING frontman Tim Lambesis' attorney believes his client may have been the victim of a setup in connection with the singer's alleged attempt to hire someone to kill Lambesis' estranged wife.

Tim was arrested without incident on Tuesday (May 7) around 2 p.m. at a Barnes & Noble bookstore in Oceanside, California and was ordered held on $3 million bail during his arraignment hearing on Thursday. He faces nine years in state prison if convicted. 

Prosecutors initially requested that Superior Court Judge Martin Staven set Lambesis' bail at $20 million, saying the singer remains "substantially motivated to kill his wife."

Speaking to Artisan News (see video below), Tim's attorney, Anthony Salerno, revealed that Tim's charges were a lot heavier initially, with the potential consequences being life in jail.

"He was arrested for conspiracy to commit murder, which carries a life sentence, as well as being booked for soliciting murder," Salerno said. "I won't necessarily get too deep [in the details of] the law surrounding conspiracy, but I came to believe very strongly that there is absolutely no way that he could be even charged with conspiracy, much less convicted of it. [So] one of the first things I did was to reach out directly to the [district attorney] that was assigned to the case and had some conversations with her. And she, in fact, did decide for Tim not to be charged with conspiracy, which was a big victory, 'cause that took a potential life sentence off the table before he was even charged. That's something that jumped out at me right away &#8212; that I needed to do that early intervention &#8212; so we did that."

Salerno also said that Lambesis was originally being held without bail before the attorney was able to intervene.

"At the point Tim was first arrested, the Sheriff's Department asked for and received permission to hold him with no bail," he said. "They got that permission for a judge and I knew that that was well in excess of what the bail schedule in San Diego County calls for. So my next order of business was to try to see what we could do to get that bail&#8230; well, first of all, to get a bail, and then to get it set as low as possible. That, of course, was what the bail hearing was about [on Thursday]. I was a little bit disappointed; I thought the bail should have been much lower. The scheduled amount for the charge that he ultimately has now is just $250,000. And, in fact, the scheduled amount for even solicitation to commit murder is a million [dollars]; and the judge set it at three million. So I was a little disappointed that it was that high. On the other hand, the D.A. was asking that the bail continued to be set at no bail whatsoever, and then she said &#8212; [which] I thought [was] kind of over the top &#8212; that as a backup, it ought to be set at $20 million. I think the fact that an earlier judge had said 'no bail' kind of must have influenced our judge, and that's [why] he set the three million. So right now the gameplan is to try to work on getting Tim out at that three million or possibly to have it lowered."

The lawyer added that someone may have given false information about Lambesis to authorities in order to "save his own skin." 

"I would anticipate myself asking for quite a bit of additional discovery, particularly on this person I strongly suspect is a snitch and is an informant for the police and was really creating this whole scenario and sort of setting Tim up," he said. "I believe there's a good probability he may be a police informant. And that information is only available internally with the police department, or in this case the San Diego Sheriff's Department, and through the D.A.'s office, and that's something I'm gonna have to explore as well."

He added: "There's one other element to this, too, which is&#8230; I don't want to start to make accusations on this one unless I have some more information, but I will point out that Tim's wife's brother, I understand, is a San Diego Sheriff's deputy, and I think I would be remiss if I didn't fully explore that, 'cause that is a litte bit&#8230; it's at the bare minimum very coincidental, and it may be more than that."

According to the San Diego Sheriff's Department web site, as of Friday afternoon (May 10), Lambesis had yet to post bail one day after pleading not guilty to a charge of solicitation of murder. The singer remains behind bars at a Vista, California detention facility and his next court date is set for June 10. 

Lambesis was ordered to wear a GPS monitor and turn in his passport and was warned by the judge that, if he is released from jail, he must stay away from his immediate family.


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## crg123 (May 11, 2013)

thrsher said:


>




Not to bring knock the seriousness of this case but....

This clip is 1000x funnier since he's in Austrian Death Machine


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## Captain_Awesome (May 11, 2013)

His lawyer sounds like a Weasel


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## flint757 (May 11, 2013)

I'll say it again, even if the guy was a snitch nobody forced him to say "I want you (Red) to kill my wife".  <paraphrasing>

His lawyer is doing a fair job of casting doubt, though, which is all that is need for Tim to walk away unscathed.


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## engage757 (May 11, 2013)

Again, playing devil's advocate.

I think this could have the chance of being blown way out of proportion by the media. It is important to try to see both sides. He is innocent until proven guilty, and he hasn't been proven guilty. yet.

My opinion? Irrelevant. I HOPE it isn't true. But the media is doing a supremely good job of hyping it either way.

Guess we will find out. Sucks, I would have loved to see them with the KSE boys!


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## engage757 (May 11, 2013)

Captain_Awesome said:


> His lawyer sounds like a Weasel



ummm... EVERY lawyer is a weasel. It's their job. 

The D.A. seems like a bitch too! On a side note, a buddy of mine is an assistant D.A. in an EXTREMELY large un-named city in FLorida, and he is a total bastard. I think you just have to be in a job like that. You have to be willing to face ridicule, public opinion and shit-storms. The stress of having someone's life in the balance is enough to do that to anyone I think.


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## flint757 (May 11, 2013)

While it is certainly possible he didn't do it, innocent until proven guilty is only applicable in the legal sense because being found not guilty doesn't mean he didn't do it, only that he MAY not have done it. The distinction is quite important IMO.


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## jwade (May 11, 2013)

Set up? Please. Unless he was tied to a chair with a knife to his throat, and someone told him he had to say "I will pay you to kill my wife", he wasn't 'set up'. It seems pretty simple to me, whether or not someone talking to him gave him the courage to go through with meeting a supposed 'hitman', it was HIS choice to meet with someone, give them money, and say 'kill her'.


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## nothingleft09 (May 11, 2013)

The thing here is, his mental health at the time will be relevant. If his mental health was all jacked up (which seems like) then a good lawyer is going to argue that the informant led him to the point and Lambesis was very coercible due to his mental state. He may do some jail time. But first offence (which it also seems like this is his first) and all that I've already mentioned will fall into play. The thing is, any amount of his sentence can be suspended. He will most likely do some time, 1-2 years and then be on probation or something like that. They can give him 10 years, suspend 5 of it and he's out in 2.5 years with good time and any sentence reductions he gets, (college classes, anger management, substance abuse) will cut his sentence down even further up to 1/3 of his sentence.

Hell. I KNOW a guy from where I live, went into a home, robbed, and killed a woman. They gave him 20 years, with good time that was 10, he got his degree in prison and was out in 7.5 years. Hell of a 20 year sentence isn't it?


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## Demiurge (May 12, 2013)

nothingleft09 said:


> The thing here is, his mental health at the time will be relevant. If his mental health was all jacked up (which seems like) then a good lawyer is going to argue that the informant led him to the point and Lambesis was very coercible due to his mental state. He may do some jail time. But first offence (which it also seems like this is his first) and all that I've already mentioned will fall into play.



That's possible, but his lawyer is going to need to commit to a counter-narrative, then. In that lawyer's statement posted above, he seems to be pushing a little too hard on the "it's a set-up/there was a snitch" angle. 

Indeed, it's possible for one to be "set up" _and_ to be of unsound mind, but what will the jury think if the defense first disputes the evidence, then later concedes the evidence (if it has proved to be as damning as it is claimed to be by authorities) with an insanity plea?


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## Korbain (May 12, 2013)

heard this the other day! wtf! seriously messed up. Glad the law caught up with him before he went through with this and fucked up alot of peoples lives. 

On a side note, some of the stuff in this thread cracked me up lol as fucked up and serious as this, i love this site


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## Darren James (May 12, 2013)

As for steroid use, although I've never used them myself, I do go to the gym 6 days a week and talk regularly to those who take them. Most are just your average individual like you and I except for one guy who told me he was getting off them as he was going through a custody battle and ever since he started taking them, he said he was having thoughts on how to kill her and make things "better". Thing was, I talked to this guy regularly and never would I have thought I'd hear that out of his mouth. He quit taking them and he said his anger and strange thoughts went away. In no way am I saying this is what happened as I have no idea but the odd time, they can have an effect on the mind.


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## Demiurge (May 12, 2013)

I suppose that _if_ steroids would be claimed to be a factor for this guy's mental health, the next question would be if the apparent side-effects would constitute a valid defense. I did a quick Google search and found this article: Bigger, stronger, angrier and mentally ill? Experts weigh legal defense of steroid withdrawal - phillyburbs.com:

I have only skimmed the article at this point, but this jumped-out: 


> Steroid use as a defense is tricky ground, especially in states like Pennsylvania where voluntary intoxication isn&#8217;t a legitimate defense, according to forensic psychiatrist Dr. Ryan Hall, who has published articles on anabolic steroid abuse.
> 
> If someone voluntarily takes an illegal drug &#8212; and without a prescription anabolic steroids are illegal &#8212; trying to say behaviors committed under its influence was the cause won&#8217;t fly, he said.



California might be different from PA with regard to "voluntary intoxication", but perhaps the harder thing to defend is the alleged premeditation. We think of 'roid rage as the result of sudden Hulk-Smash mood swings... but can that be blamed for something that seemed to have been carefully planned?


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## Konfyouzd (May 12, 2013)

yingmin said:


> There's a big difference between coffee hot enough to scald you and coffee hot enough to give you third degree burns.


Either way I think its fucking stupid to have hot liquids in a moving vehicle... Your mileage may vary...


----------



## BaptizedBurning (May 12, 2013)

Insanity defense because of steroid use? 

That defense didn't work out so good for the millions of other illegal drug users in prison.

I definitely don't buy the whole set up/jailhouse snitch scenario. I'm sure the defense will make the argument that it's all a big misunderstanding and he wasn't actually going to go through with the act. I think there's more than enough evidence to convict him or convince him to plead guilty.


But since he's such a good Christian, god will forgive him for any sins...unless he's gay.


----------



## Captain_Awesome (May 12, 2013)

engage757 said:


> ummm... EVERY lawyer is a weasel. It's their job.
> 
> The D.A. seems like a bitch too! On a side note, a buddy of mine is an assistant D.A. in an EXTREMELY large un-named city in FLorida, and he is a total bastard. I think you just have to be in a job like that. You have to be willing to face ridicule, public opinion and shit-storms. The stress of having someone's life in the balance is enough to do that to anyone I think.



Haha, I wouldn't say 'every' lawyer, I've been friends with several who are great guys; however they've all been working in family or corporate law, none of this here murder business.


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## Sikthness (May 12, 2013)

the part that blows my mind is trusting someone to successfully murder your wife, without leaving behind dna/evidence, and then keeping their mouth shut and generally being professional about the whole thing and getting rid of any trace of transaction or interaction before the act. Tim seems to believe he met the individual who possessed this level of professionalism, and that this person charges $1000 haha . Brb gotta commit murder for hire once a week just to make ends meet.


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## GalacticDeath (May 12, 2013)

lol he definitely doesn't look like he's on roids. I don't think anybody would buy that defense.


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## NaYoN (May 12, 2013)

Tim doesn't do roids, I know Tim's trainer and he's actually disappointed at how small Tim is given his workout regime


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## engage757 (May 12, 2013)

Captain_Awesome said:


> Haha, I wouldn't say 'every' lawyer, I've been friends with several who are great guys; however they've all been working in family or corporate law, none of this here murder business.



I have some buddies that are too, but they can all be weasely at the drop of a hat for a client it seems like!


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## dcoughlin1 (May 13, 2013)

Sikthness said:


> the part that blows my mind is trusting someone to successfully murder your wife, without leaving behind dna/evidence, and then keeping their mouth shut and generally being professional about the whole thing and getting rid of any trace of transaction or interaction before the act. Tim seems to believe he met the individual who possessed this level of professionalism, and that this person charges $1000 haha . Brb gotta commit murder for hire once a week just to make ends meet.



maybe he said he was a fan and would give him a discount


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## Rap Hat (May 13, 2013)

dcoughlin1 said:


> maybe he said he was a fan and would give him a discount



That's quite a "killer" discount!


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## jawbreaker (May 13, 2013)

Defense attorney update. Tim was set up? I dunno about all that. 
Tim Lambesis' Defense Attorney Claims AS I LAY DYING Frontman Was Set Up - Metal Injection | Tim Lambesis Trial | Metal Injection


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## Konfyouzd (May 13, 2013)

The puns in this thread are too good...


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## Captain Butterscotch (May 13, 2013)

Konfyouzd said:


> The puns in this thread are *killer*...



Fixed.


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## JosephAOI (May 13, 2013)

Konfyouzd said:


> The puns in this thread are _*cheap*_.



Fixed. (x2)


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## Konfyouzd (May 13, 2013)

Damn... Double corrected...


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## The Reverend (May 13, 2013)

jawbreaker said:


> Defense attorney update. Tim was set up? I dunno about all that.
> Tim Lambesis' Defense Attorney Claims AS I LAY DYING Frontman Was Set Up - Metal Injection | Tim Lambesis Trial | Metal Injection



That lawyer certainly knows what he's doing. I think in a case where there wasn't an audio recording, he'd be able to get Lambesis off. But if you have a recording of the guy saying he wants his ex dead, and proceeds to give the plant all this information, you can't trump that.


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## bouVIP (May 13, 2013)

There's always this


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## ScornEmperor (May 13, 2013)

What gym does he go to that he can't find a good hitman?


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## Holicx (May 13, 2013)

Steroids aren't responsible for his behavior. For him to be affected "mentally" by them he must have been using them long term and by his muscle gains he: Doesn't use them or is using non androgenic steroid hormones (Metenolone enanthate and such) which rarely has side effects on individuals. If he did hire a hitman, then he must have been suffering from some mental illness or just being an ass. No reason to hate on steroidal hormones or any type of hormones.

P.S.: I'm a Molecular Toxicologist and Med student


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## datalore (May 14, 2013)

The Reverend said:


> That lawyer certainly knows what he's doing. I think in a case where there wasn't an audio recording, he'd be able to get Lambesis off. But if you have a recording of the guy saying he wants his ex dead, and proceeds to give the plant all this information, you can't trump that.



Yep. If the audio recording and the contents of the envelope hold up in court, he's done.


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## Equivoke (May 14, 2013)




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## Dommak89 (May 15, 2013)

Rap Hat said:


> That's quite a "killer" discount!


[FONT=&quot]






Couldn't resist 
[/FONT]


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## cronux (May 15, 2013)

well... the whole steroid insanity thing COULD pass...

1000$ for killing somebody? 
if it was 10.000 or 100.000 i would say ok, but a 1000$? 
the guy could just be 

i mean come on, even if he went to let's say a "gang" member that does hits - for a 1000$ i'm pretty much sure he would go


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## abandonist (May 15, 2013)

Every pro I knew that did hits was a 10k minimum + expenses.


I mean, I'm sure you can find some marine washout on craigslist that needs 2 Gs for coke money, but that's hardly going to end well.


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## Dommak89 (May 15, 2013)

abandonist said:


> Every pro I knew that did hits was a 10k minimum + expenses.



Not sure if trolling ...

Is it normal that you know/knew hitmen?


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## drjeffreyodweyer (May 15, 2013)

Uhh maybe it was a 1000 $ deposit? Who pays a hitman in advance? lol


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## Jakke (May 15, 2013)

They do in movies...


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## JPhoenix19 (May 15, 2013)

The Reverend said:


> Wow, dude made $233,000? This makes me rethink just how much I believe people in world-famous bands when they say they don't make much.



That's _gross_ income, not _net_. No telling how much of that income was actual 'take-home' pay.


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## Goro923 (May 15, 2013)

Dommak89 said:


> Is it normal that you know/knew hitmen?



do u even gym brah


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## protest (May 15, 2013)

My wife likes these real life murder story shows. I was watching one with her, and this lady paid a "hitman" $2,000 to kill her husband. He was an undercover cop and she got locked up. I thought man, only 2k to kill somebody? That's a lot of work for 2 grand. Now I find out she was getting ripped off, she could have got a half off discount lol.


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## Larrikin666 (May 15, 2013)

Really interesting piece written by Doc from God Forbid.


MetalSucks | The Dilemma: God Forbid&#8217;s Doc Coyle on His Friendship with As I Lay Dying&#8217;s Tim Lambesis


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## Sikthness (May 15, 2013)

drjeffreyodweyer said:


> Uhh maybe it was a 1000 $ deposit? Who pays a hitman in advance? lol



half up front, half after the deed. You sheltered kids have never contracted out a murder? what has our world came to..


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## abandonist (May 15, 2013)

Yeah, it's half and half with expenses (travel, gear, etc) paid up front. Exponentially more if the person has any kind of public profile.

I used to work in extremely fancy S Beach strip clubs. My uncle was a drug runner. I know people.


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## SoItGoesRVA (May 15, 2013)

Well, AILD just dropped off the tour with Killswitch. Looks like they may be backing him.


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## flint757 (May 15, 2013)

Or they just have no one to fill in. He's the singer, not the easiest position to fill.


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## The Reverend (May 16, 2013)

JPhoenix19 said:


> That's _gross_ income, not _net_. No telling how much of that income was actual 'take-home' pay.



You aren't the first person to point that out. It's not like they're being taxed eighty percent and barely making it, though. They more than likely lose about a third of that, leaving them with what, 170K? That's comfy living by most standards, and extravagant by the standards of most everyone else who's main source of income is metal.


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## Kwirk (May 16, 2013)

Larrikin666 said:


> Really interesting piece written by Doc from God Forbid.
> 
> 
> MetalSucks | The Dilemma: God Forbids Doc Coyle on His Friendship with As I Lay Dyings Tim Lambesis


LOL, did not see the Office Space reference coming.


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## SoItGoesRVA (May 16, 2013)

flint757 said:


> Or they just have no one to fill in. He's the singer, not the easiest position to fill.



Fair enough. Would have loved for them to have gotten Howard Jones (because that wouldn't be awkward on this tour ) However, Darkest Hour is replacing them, so the tour lineup just improved 100%


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## Ralyks (May 17, 2013)

So apparently, they lowered the bail to $2 million, and they're claiming steroids muddled his thought process.

Anyone with legal knowledge able to weigh in?


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## Hyacinth (May 17, 2013)

JPhoenix19 said:


> That's _gross_ income, not _net_. No telling how much of that income was actual 'take-home' pay.



Is that yearly? Because that's still a fucking shitload for being in a band and basically having the time of your life touring the country.


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## Hyacinth (May 17, 2013)

Ralyks said:


> So apparently, they lowered the bail to $2 million, and they're claiming steroids muddled his thought process.
> 
> Anyone with legal knowledge able to weigh in?



I doubt that'll hold up. He can't claim temporary insanity because it was a premeditated murder plot. If he just picked up and lamp and caved her skull in, then the whole steroid thing might fly because he didn't _plan_ anything, he just did it.


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## Uncreative123 (May 17, 2013)

Laughing my balls off at this whole thing now. Sounds like they know he's fucked and this is the only potential straw they can grasp for in hopes of a reduced sentence. I don't believe for a second he used steroids. His wife would have made it very clear by this point had he used them in the past (and they've only been separated what like a year?) as she clearly wasn't holding anything back in her previous statements. I would like to see proof of this. There are so many things wrong with what they're saying.
And you don't see "withdrawl" of steroid use like it's heroin or meth or alcohol. LOL this is just...so sad, depraved, and pathetic. Hoping he gets the max sentence for being a shit-head and trying to excuse his way out of it. Nobody wants to take responsibility for their actions anymore.


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## Zer01 (May 17, 2013)

Steroids are to blame.

So who do we blame for the steroids? Oh, right.


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## Breakdown (May 17, 2013)

SoItGoesRVA said:


> Fair enough. Would have loved for them to have gotten Howard Jones (because that wouldn't be awkward on this tour ) However, Darkest Hour is replacing them, so the tour lineup just improved 100%


Meh, im more stoked that they added The word alive, not really a fan of Darkest hour . I was really looking forward to seeing AILD on this tour but then Timmy had to go ahead and be a dick .

Edit:Wow, guess I was right about him using roids, although whether they contributed to his behavior and thought process is certainly questionable. Although even if they did contribute to the actions he took against his wife, it still wouldn't excuse him. Kind of like how being drunk isn't an excuse for committing a crime.


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## wespaul (May 17, 2013)

Does roid rage work like that?


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (May 18, 2013)

Wait... First they claimed he was set up, now they're saying it was roid rage?

This doesn't look good.


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## yingmin (May 18, 2013)

It's starting to sound more and more like Tim's attorney attended the Richard Gere school of law.


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## potatohead (May 18, 2013)

This is completely, off the wall crazy.


Let's quote some of Tim's lyrics;

As we face distress
We must not lose heart
Stand fast, and press on
Triumph awaits

These helped me a lot when my mother passed a few months ago. I feel dirty for it.


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## Breakdown (May 18, 2013)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Wait... First they claimed he was set up, now they're saying it was roid rage?
> 
> This doesn't look good.



They implied it was a set up they did not use that argument in court since they have no evidence to back it up, this roid rage argument however they actually did use.


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## linchpin (May 18, 2013)

potatohead said:


> This is completely, off the wall crazy.
> 
> 
> Let's quote some of Tim's lyrics;
> ...


Whatever works, I say.


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## Ralyks (May 18, 2013)

So the newer Blabbermouth article says the hit was actually for $20,000. I guess the $1,000 was for up front?


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## skisgaar (May 18, 2013)

SoItGoesRVA said:


> Fair enough. Would have loved for them to have gotten Howard Jones (because that wouldn't be awkward on this tour ) However, Darkest Hour is replacing them, so the tour lineup just improved 100%



A little tangential, but why would it be awkward? HoJo and J-Lo have shared a stage before...


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## Vhyle (May 18, 2013)

Ok so before, he was a "good Christian boy", and then he started roiding out, "lost God" and wanted his wife dead? Is that the jist of it?


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## flint757 (May 18, 2013)

Ralyks said:


> So the newer Blabbermouth article says the hit was actually for $20,000. I guess the $1,000 was for up front?



Hey at least he's not a cheapskate.


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## Jakke (May 18, 2013)

wespaul said:


> Does roid rage work like that?



No.


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## simonXsludge (May 18, 2013)

Vhyle said:


> Ok so before, he was a "good Christian boy", and then he started roiding out, "lost God" and wanted his wife dead? Is that the jist of it?


That is what Christian media is gonna make out of it.


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## Fat-Elf (May 18, 2013)

.... steroids.


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## Datura (May 18, 2013)

Even if steroids were to blame (which they are not), I'd imagine 'roid rage' to be some impulsive killing, rather than visiting a hitman.


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## Joose (May 18, 2013)

Datura said:


> Even if steroids were to blame (which they are not), I'd imagine 'roid rage' to be some impulsive killing, rather than visiting a hitman.



This.


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## MJS (May 18, 2013)

I wonder how long it will be before he hires another hitman/cop to kill his attorney for not being able to come up with anything better than setups and roid rage stories.


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## flint757 (May 18, 2013)

Honestly other than a plea bargain or just straight up admitting guilt/insanity those are the only cards on the table no matter how ridiculous. I would assume the attorney's first move would be to make sure the evidence was 100% admissible as well.


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## M3CHK1LLA (May 19, 2013)

Vhyle said:


> Ok so before, he was a "good Christian boy", and then he started roiding out, "lost God" and wanted his wife dead? Is that the jist of it?





shitsøn;3560921 said:


> That is what Christian media is gonna make out of it.


^
that was *his* own words...read the entire thread & links. shitson, your acting like the liberal media does


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## gunshow86de (May 19, 2013)

This steroid defense is ludicrous. In "double-blind" studies, only about 5% of males show increased aggression (this includes the placebo sample). 0% show an increase in psychotic behavior.


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## Jakke (May 19, 2013)

I think this is how Lambesis wants us to view the situation:


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## DjentDjentlalala (May 19, 2013)

Wish the problem were steroids.His doesnt look like one that used steroids,and anyway they dont make people go crazy.


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## abandonist (May 19, 2013)

Ralyks said:


> So the newer Blabbermouth article says the hit was actually for $20,000. I guess the $1,000 was for up front?



No reputable pro goes that cheap for wetwork.


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## Basti (May 19, 2013)

See, in the good ol' days true metal frontmen would straight up stab each other. 

This is messed up, I feel bad for his fans, I can imagine they must be pretty conflicted right now.


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## Sikthness (May 19, 2013)

Anthony said:


> Roid rage doesn't exist, and he's obviously not on steroids.



shut up cameljockey, do u even lift?


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## Kwirk (May 19, 2013)

Strong awares ITT


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## Curt (May 19, 2013)

Larrikin666 said:


> Really interesting piece written by Doc from God Forbid.
> 
> 
> MetalSucks | The Dilemma: God Forbids Doc Coyle on His Friendship with As I Lay Dyings Tim Lambesis


 The comments on that post are ....ing stupid.

MetalSucks logic: "New entry? Better comment about how shitty any band or artist involved in the article are, and how they're not real metal. "


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## simonXsludge (May 19, 2013)

M3CHK1LLA said:


> ^
> that was *his* own words...read the entire thread & links. shitson, your acting like the liberal media does


I know and I did. But I can smell the bullshit headlines that none of that would have happened if he still believed in god or some mumbo jumbo in that vein.


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## Edika (May 19, 2013)

Why do you people say roid rage doesn't exist? I had a friend that had a horrendous case of hemorrhoids and was in constant agonizing pain. He was pissed at everything that lived!

Joking aside, I don't have to add anything to the situation. I hope the money he saved from having a divorce is more important than the years he'll do in prison.


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## Joose (May 19, 2013)

Curt said:


> The comments on that post are ....ing stupid.
> 
> MetalSucks logic: "New entry? Better comment about how shitty any band or artist involved in the article are, and how they're not real metal. "



Haha, yep. It's the new Blabbermouth. It's where all the metal elitists live.


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## Treeunit212 (May 19, 2013)

This whole thing is really starting to piss me off.

First, the news coverage; something I have strong opinions on as I'm an aspiring journalist myself. The coverage has mainly consisted of live shots of him behind bulletproof glass looking menacing, clips of him screaming in music videos (also menacingly), and his ex wife's friends talking about how and scared she is *of a man who is behind bullet proof glass and steel bars.*  

Can someone explain to me why his ex wife is justified in not allowing her children to go back to school 'for their safety'? Seriously. 

This shit could not be any more slanted against the guy. And, once again, metal music is drawn out to be the evil man's music. Just like those damn Negroes and their jazz hands in up in Harlem trying to touch all our white women... 

The mental state defense is shoddy at best, but I honestly believe he regrets what he did and that he is otherwise a good guy. Steroids _do_ tend to mess up your thought processes. And balls. But that's neither here nor there.

If this ex wife of his is willing to milk this trial for attention and sympathy like she seems to be doing, there is clearly more to this than the evil psychopath metal vocalist that's being portrayed here.


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## Jakke (May 19, 2013)

Treeunit212 said:


> and his ex wife's friends talking about how and scared she is *of a man who is behind bullet proof glass and steel bars.*
> 
> Can someone explain to me why his ex wife is justified in not allowing her children to go back to school 'for their safety'? Seriously.



Because women impying that they are scared have been one of the single greatest motivators of human progress in the history of mankind. We bend over backwards to cater to most women, and some unscrupulous individuals knows this, and take fully advantage of it. Have also been used in custody battles.


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## Ralyks (May 19, 2013)

Jakke said:


> Because women impying that they are scared have been one of the single greatest motivators of human progress in the history of mankind. We bend over backwards to cater to most women, and some unscrupulous individuals knows this, and take fully advantage of it. Have also been used in custody battles.



Yep, pretty much the best summary.


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## abandonist (May 19, 2013)

This isn't related to the actual controversy, but one of the saddest things I've seen as a 20+ year metal fan was In Flames having to open up for As I Lay Dying. It felt like I was being eaten alive by children. Went drinking with the In Flames dudes after, and I brought it up about them touring in support of folks that are just derivative of them and Anders said it's "A little bumming", but they were glad to be on big tours and in front of a lot of fans playing their stuff even if they're second fiddle.


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## potatohead (May 19, 2013)

abandonist said:


> This isn't related to the actual controversy, .


 
You should have stopped there


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## engage757 (May 20, 2013)

Jakke said:


> No.



It VERY well can be, yes. There are no set patterns for how a person's body chemistry reacts to different chemicals. Everyone reacts differently, not to mention, we don't know the specifics of the drugs.


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## Uncreative123 (May 20, 2013)

engage757 said:


> It VERY well can be, yes. There are no set patterns for how a person's body chemistry reacts to different chemicals. Everyone reacts differently, not to mention, we don't know the specifics of the drugs.




No it can't. You don't know what you're talking about. "Specifics of the drugs"? First of all, that doesn't even make sense. Secondly the compounds he was *SUPPOSEDLY* (and we have yet to see any proof of this because I think most people suspect and know it's a cop-out) is irrelevant because regardless of what it was, they're all synthetic versions of Testosterone...something that is already produced in your body naturally. It's not a mind-altering substance or psychedelic. 


Did you get your information from this Reefer Madness after-school special?


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## Ralyks (May 20, 2013)

I actually was curious if there was proof of steroid use, because he doesn't exactly look like someone who has done steroids.


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## downburst82 (May 20, 2013)

I would say he at least kind of looks lke someone who "could" have used steroids. I also think he could have just busted his ass in the weight room...not used steroid..and be using this as an excuse. I beleive either way its no excuse. Its becoming obvious at no point is he going to just man up admit he messed up and serve his time like an honorable human being...it will just be the usual "it wasnt my fault", "she drove me to it" ,"twinkies" ..etc excuses.


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## Kwirk (May 20, 2013)

Not everyone who takes steroids is going to look, or wants to look, like Ronnie Coleman.





Light weight baby.


----------



## emujarofhagas (May 20, 2013)

I don't think a lot of people realize how common steroid use is. Not all people who take steroids look like huge bodybuilders - you need to take a LOT to look like that. For example, Zyzz (if you know him) was a pretty outspoken steroid user, and he doesn't look any bigger than Lambesis. They can be used more as a shortcut in bodybuilding than a substance that transforms you into the Hulk.


----------



## flint757 (May 20, 2013)

Nonetheless, even if he were taking steroids that defense is weak.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (May 20, 2013)

downburst82 said:


>



Does steroid use also make you look like Jesus?


----------



## GRUNTKOR (May 21, 2013)

honestly, imo, he looks like a choad in both pics...


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## s2k9k (May 21, 2013)

It is very easy to achieve these kind of results in 1-2 year period of time naturally. It's annoying that people always assume steroids just because a dude is muscular.



downburst82 said:


> I would say he at least kind of looks lke someone who "could" have used steroids. I also think he could have just busted his ass in the weight room...not used steroid..and be using this as an excuse. I beleive either way its no excuse. Its becoming obvious at no point is he going to just man up admit he messed up and serve his time like an honorable human being...it will just be the usual "it wasnt my fault", "she drove me to it" ,"twinkies" ..etc excuses.


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## Breakdown (May 21, 2013)

s2k9k said:


> It is very easy to achieve these kind of results in 1-2 year period of time naturally. It's annoying that people always assume steroids just because a dude is muscular.



He admitted to using them, its not really an assumption anymore.


----------



## MJS (May 21, 2013)

Maybe he was juicing up so he could fight off horny cell mates if by some chance he wasn't smart enough to make it through life without ending up in prison. 

If he really wanted to go with the roid-rage story, he should have just killed her himself. At least there wouldn't be any audio tapes and an envelope full of evidence against him.


----------



## s2k9k (May 21, 2013)

Breakdown said:


> He admitted to using them, its not really an assumption anymore.


 
Spike Spiegel is the shit!


----------



## Kwirk (May 21, 2013)

s2k9k said:


> *It is very easy* to achieve these kind of results in 1-2 year period of time naturally. It's annoying that people always assume steroids just because a dude is muscular.


Lolwut. Show me a guy who goes from non lifting to repping 100lb DBs on shoulder presses in a year or two. Or three. Not to mention all the lean mass. Unless they are a genetic freak (which Tim is not judging from his before pictures), not bloody likely. The before picture there looks like it was after he started lifting.


----------



## gunshow86de (May 21, 2013)

Kwirk said:


> Not everyone who takes steroids is going to look, or wants to look, like Ronnie Coleman.



Yeah, you gotta take dat dere Celltech to look like the champ.


----------



## Phrygian (May 21, 2013)

Kwirk said:


>



I wonder how his tattoos shifted when he bulked that much. 


Either way, the case against him is overwhelming as I see it, steroids or not.


----------



## Uncreative123 (May 21, 2013)

Kwirk said:


> Lolwut. Show me a guy who goes from non lifting to repping 100lb DBs on shoulder presses in a year or two. Or three. Not to mention all the lean mass. Unless they are a genetic freak (which Tim is not judging from his before pictures), not bloody likely. The before picture there looks like it was after he started lifting.




How about- everyone, ever? Do you even lift? Those results are easily achievable naturally...and he didn't do it in 'a year or two'. I've seen hundreds of people add 30lbs+ of lean muscle over the course of 2-3 years naturally just from lifting, creatine+glutamine+bcaas, and not eating like a raccoon in a dumpster- myself included. I'd be really interested to know how you can LOOK at someone and determine their genetic structure- that has to be the first time I've ever heard anyone make that claim. 
Secondly, dude isn't "repping 100 dbs for shoulder press". He's using steroids as an EXCUSE to get a reduced sentence in hopes that people will buy his claim that it somehow affected his judgement. His well thought out (or rather, poorly thought out), planned ahead, premeditated, time consuming....rash decision.

And why are you saying "not bloody likely"? You're from Minnesota, dawg.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams (May 21, 2013)

Uncreative123 said:


> How about- everyone, ever? Do you even lift? Those results are easily achievable naturally...and he didn't do it in 'a year or two'. I've seen hundreds of people add 30lbs+ of lean muscle over the course of 2-3 years naturally just from lifting, creatine+glutamine+bcaas, and not eating like a raccoon in a dumpster- myself included. I'd be really interested to know how you can LOOK at someone and determine their genetic structure- that has to be the first time I've ever heard anyone make that claim.
> Secondly, dude isn't "repping 100 dbs for shoulder press". He's using steroids as an EXCUSE to get a reduced sentence in hopes that people will buy his claim that it somehow affected his judgement. His well thought out (or rather, poorly thought out), planned ahead, premeditated, time consuming....rash decision.
> 
> And why are you saying "not bloody likely"? You're from Minnesota, dawg.


 For sure dude, I know people that have gained a TON from just lifting. 

Also, because of this site I say cheers too.


----------



## MrYakob (May 21, 2013)

Uncreative123 said:


> How about- everyone, ever? *Do you even lift?* Those results are easily achievable naturally...and he didn't do it in 'a year or two'.



There it is


----------



## Randy (May 21, 2013)

Uncreative123 said:


> Do you even lift?



We've officially reached critical mass on body building discussion when *this* gets tossed out there as a semi-serious question.

I know people who've taken steroids and still look like a gelatinous blob. You can't just assume the guy juiced and ALSO worked out at an incredibly inhuman rate. He could've just been taking the steroids to give him an extra edge because maybe he was a little lazy. If you can't say for sure that somebody DID take steroids based on their physique, then you also can't determine somebody DID NOT take steroids based on their physique.

As it stands, the guy admitted to using them. We can debate whether or not that has ANY bearing on the crime that took place but, at this point, it's moot and unnecessary to argue whether or not the guy took the steroids and just keep passing around half naked pictures of him.


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## Arsenal12 (May 21, 2013)

I personally know what its like when you have kid(s) with a wife or gf, and they're threatening to leave or take them away from you. Women know they have the upper hand when you have kids together, and there are definitely alot of them out there that abuse that. I consider myself a rational, calm person but when I was going through all of that ALOT of crazy ideas went through my head and thats perfectly normal. Thoughts are one thing, acting on it is another.


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## gunshow86de (May 21, 2013)

Uncreative123 said:


> Bro, do you even lift?



FTFY

I do agree with you, Tim's results are far from impossible to achieve naturally.

The steroid defense is complete hogwash. Steroids can increase aggression in a small number of users (even natural elevations in testosterone can do that). But planning to hire someone to kill your wife is not a result of increased aggression. Maybe if they were having an argument and Tim assaulted her "in the heat of the moment," then you could argue steroids. But not this.


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## Randy (May 21, 2013)

gunshow86de said:


> The steroid defense is complete hogwash. Steroids can increase aggression in a small number of users (even natural elevations in testosterone can do that). But planning to hire someone to kill your wife is not a result of increased aggression.



Sounds like an Upright Citizen's Brigade skit or something.

I'm imagining TL all 'roided up, pumping iron like crazy and the guy spotting him is like 'COME ON, BRO! PUSH LIKE YOU MEAN IT! IMAGINE KILLING YOUR EX WIFE!" and Tim puts it up, like a boss. Afterward his friend's like "hey man, I noticed that really gotcha going... you know, I know a guy that can help you out..." and Tim's all leveled out after the workout but it's all awkward for him to say no.


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## Dan (May 21, 2013)

Randy said:


> Sounds like an Upright Citizen's Brigade skit or something.
> 
> I'm imagining TL all 'roided up, pumping iron like crazy and the guy spotting him is like 'COME ON, BRO! PUSH LIKE YOU MEAN IT! IMAGINE KILLING YOUR EX WIFE!" and Tim puts it up, like a boss. Afterward his friend's like "hey man, I noticed that really gotcha going... you know, I know a guy that can help you out..." and Tim's all leveled out after the workout but it's all awkward for him to say no.



Randall Hogue. Defence attorney.


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## Kwirk (May 21, 2013)

Uncreative123 said:


> How about- everyone, ever? Do you even lift? Those results are easily achievable naturally...and he didn't do it in 'a year or two'. I've seen hundreds of people add 30lbs+ of lean muscle over the course of 2-3 years naturally just from lifting, creatine+glutamine+bcaas, and not eating like a raccoon in a dumpster- myself included. I'd be really interested to know how you can LOOK at someone and determine their genetic structure- that has to be the first time I've ever heard anyone make that claim.
> Secondly, dude isn't "repping 100 dbs for shoulder press". He's using steroids as an EXCUSE to get a reduced sentence in hopes that people will buy his claim that it somehow affected his judgement. His well thought out (or rather, poorly thought out), planned ahead, premeditated, time consuming....rash decision.
> 
> And why are you saying "not bloody likely"? You're from Minnesota, dawg.


Gooby pls. I'm not saying his results aren't achievable natty because they are, but I don't exactly see everyone on their second year of weight lifting looking lean with size like Tim. It's possible, but not "very easy" to get there in that small amount of time like the other guy said. Zyzz's physique is achievable natty too, but he rode that bike all the way to the grave. What's your point?

And yes, I recall him repping 100s on the shoulder workout video with DLB that has since been taken down. Show me a natty dude who can do that after a year of training "easily" who isn't a genetic freak. Pls go.

My point wasn't that Tim got there in 1-2 years, my point was people in general, dawg.


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## erotophonophilia (May 21, 2013)

abandonist said:


> This isn't related to the actual controversy, but one of the saddest things I've seen as a 20+ year metal fan was In Flames having to open up for As I Lay Dying. It felt like I was being eaten alive by children. Went drinking with the In Flames dudes after, and I brought it up about them touring in support of folks that are just derivative of them and Anders said it's "A little bumming", but they were glad to be on big tours and in front of a lot of fans playing their stuff even if they're second fiddle.



I don't even like In Flames, but I can tell you that's pretty pathetic.

AILD's scheme was "were a Christian band." That's true. Not as many people would've listened to them if they had Satanic imagery, even though they would've been better musicians. Notice no black metal musicians have done this.
If it was steroids, he would've pulled a Chris Benoit, instead of getting someone else to do it. I'm sure he was stupid enough to post a Craig's list add. You're not gonna find a hitman on killmywife.com


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## tm20 (May 22, 2013)

as i lift dying..... sorry, this is a stupid post but i'm just really bored right now


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## Uncreative123 (May 22, 2013)

Kwirk said:


> Gooby pls. I'm not saying his results aren't achievable natty because they are,




No- that's exactly what you are saying. You even elude to this in your very next sentence: 



> but I don't exactly see everyone on their second year of weight lifting looking lean with size like Tim. It's possible, but not "very easy" to get there in that small amount of time like the other guy said. Zyzz's physique is achievable natty too, but he rode that bike all the way to the grave. What's your point?



Oh YOU don't see how it's possible? Good for YOU. What experience, training, and knowledge do you have? Why are you even talking about zyzz? Of what relevance is he? Because he did steroids? So have millions of other people. What is his significance and what is YOUR point?



> And yes, I recall him repping 100s on the shoulder workout video with DLB that has since been taken down. Show me a natty dude who can do that after a year of training "easily" who isn't a genetic freak. Pls go.
> 
> My point wasn't that Tim got there in 1-2 years, my point was people in general, dawg.




Ok, so we've established that you can determine who is a 'genetic freak' simply by looking at them. I look forward to reading your published work in that area. You conveniently change your time frame from "one or two or three years" to then saying "1-2 years" and then in that last paragraph...one year. Pick a time-frame, stick with it. 

It blows my mind that people are so unwilling to believe that simply by changing your diet and lifting (from eating like a child and not working out at all) that you can drastically change how your body looks and performs. That it *has* to be something else. Nobody can just do that. 
Look at the THOUSANDS of NPC and NANBF athletes who have done it and with far more impressive and dramatic transformations than tim's. The guy added maybe 20-25 lbs of lean mass over 2-3 years? Yeah that's good, and good for him, but I don't even know if I would go as far as to quantify that as "impressive". Throw a stone in any direction at a gym and you can probably hit someone with the same story. LOL my girlfriend had better abs than him before she even really started working out.





Randy said:


> I know people who've taken steroids and still look like a gelatinous blob. You can't just assume the guy juiced and ALSO worked out at an incredibly inhuman rate. He could've just been taking the steroids to give him an extra edge because maybe he was a little lazy. If you can't say for sure that somebody DID take steroids based on their physique, then you also can't determine somebody DID NOT take steroids based on their physique.
> 
> As it stands, the guy admitted to using them. We can debate whether or not that has ANY bearing on the crime that took place but, at this point, it's moot and unnecessary to argue whether or not the guy took the steroids and just keep passing around half naked pictures of him.





Would you be so quick to believe someone claiming an insanity defense simply because they said they were insane? Look if I knew I was going down for at least 10+ years (or really any amount of time) and someone mentions the option to get a reduced sentence by claiming I took steroids then you can be damn sure I'm going to say I took them. I'd say I was on meth and bath salts too. Why would I give a shit? Prison is not a place I would want to hang around. Reduced sentence and drug rehab sure as hell beats being in prison for an extra 5 years.


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## Xaios (May 22, 2013)

Dan said:


> Randall Hogue. Defence attorney.



"Your honor, over the course of these proceedings, we've determined that the nature of this case can be distilled to one single question: Do you even lift? Members of the jury, I'm confident that you'll agree that I've proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that my client does, indeed, lift. As you deliberate on your findings while deciding the fate of my client, you should ask yourself the same: do you even lift? If not, then you have no right to judge my client guilty, for you are not his peers and cannot understand what it is... to lift."


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## Randy (May 22, 2013)

Uncreative123 said:


> Would you be so quick to believe someone claiming an insanity defense simply because they said they were insane?



Believe them? Possibly. Think they should get a lighter sentence because of it? Yes and no, mostly no.

I mean, I get your point but there's a difference between a person having sound enough mind to say "my median mental state renders me unable to make rational decisions" and saying "I was on drugs at the time I made those decisions and had I not been on drugs, I wouldn't have made those decisions" because the latter implies your median mental state affords you the ability to look at things reasonably and in context.

But yeah, I get your point, it's shit people say to get off. I'm assuming they've piss/blood tested him already since then? Either way, I don't care if he WAS using steroids and WAS experiencing 'roid rage, as gunshow mentioned before, the nature of the crime (sitting down and planning out a murder, methodically) doesn't go very well with the idea of being uncontrollably enraged. If he admits he did it and that's his only excuses, throw the book at him. 

I think it's hilarious that you exclusively troll the lifestyle/fitness forums (I've gotten more than a few reports of your bullying in there) and the only time you poke your head into General Music, it's to discuss a guy lifting weights and supposedly taking steroids, and turn it around as essentially another infomercial for how much you know about lifting weights. 

*NOBODY CARES.*


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## potatohead (May 22, 2013)

Randy said:


> *NOBODY CARES.*




You could say... 

It's... 

*Uncreative *

*puts on shades*


Yeeeeahahhhhhhhhhhhhhh


----------



## Goro923 (May 22, 2013)

potatohead said:


> You could say...
> 
> It's...
> 
> ...



Fixed.


----------



## Rick (May 22, 2013)

potatohead said:


> You could say...
> 
> It's...
> 
> ...





Goro923 said:


> Fixed.


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## dcoughlin1 (May 22, 2013)

Randy said:


> If he admits he did it and that's his only excuses, throw the book at him.


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## Randy (May 22, 2013)

Woo-wee, I don't think we've seen Tim Lambesis' muscles enough. Can't decide whether he's guilty or not, right guys?


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## Dan (May 22, 2013)

Randy said:


> Woo-wee, I don't think we've seen Tim Lambesis' muscles enough. Can't decide whether he's guilty or not, right guys?



I can always send nudes to you Randy if you want more oiled up men?


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## engage757 (May 22, 2013)

Uncreative123 said:


> No it can't. You don't know what you're talking about. "Specifics of the drugs"? First of all, that doesn't even make sense. Secondly the compounds he was *SUPPOSEDLY* (and we have yet to see any proof of this because I think most people suspect and know it's a cop-out) is irrelevant because regardless of what it was, they're all synthetic versions of Testosterone...something that is already produced in your body naturally. It's not a mind-altering substance or psychedelic.
> 
> 
> Did you get your information from this Reefer Madness after-school special?




I am sorry, I simply can't let this go.

Yes, specifics of the drug. You have ZERO idea what he was taking or the dosage and frequency. It makes absolute perfect sense. 


There are many types of performance enhancing substances. ALL lumped under the term "steroid". MANY people don't know the difference. Say what you want, but no matter what the substance, people will have a different reaction. neg-rep me all you want, but I am sitting next to someone with a master's degree in applied exercise science that deals with collegiate sports on a daily basis.  My Girlfriend, who is assisting in the thought process of my rant here, also has assisted in drug testing for the US Olympic Team, as well as NUMEROUS NCAA tournaments, events, teams and is a keynote presenter at the North American Athletic Trainer's conference. 

Sure, some people may have similar reactions, but it is absolute ignorance to say that everyone will react to the boosters (no matter what they are) the same way. NOT ONLY on a biological and physiological plane, but also, your mental plane as well. 

Want to bring in psychedelics? Sure, let's. LSD is a synthetic version of the fungus Ergot. LSD causes the brain to produce MASS amounts of Seratonin, stimulating brain activity in different regions. Many Steroids do the same thing, simply causing the body to produce Testosterone on a mass-scale. ANY time the body is thrown out of it's natural cycles, side effects will happen. And they will be different with each individual, it's a medical fact. In general, you aren't INJECTING or taking mass testosterone, you are simply stimulating your body to produce more of it. It simply depends on which "steroids" you are taking. They can inhibit or accentuate certain things. Point blank, it causes a chemical and hormonal imbalance, the side effects of which are OBVIOUSLY different for each individual. Which OBVIOUSLY effects the brain, because it is operating on a different pattern than normal. all people have a "range" of hormonal levels. men and women. By changing that, you are basically basically re-wiring a circuit board.

And I don't need to watch a stupid video to know that. 

Oh yeah, and should I start sending you textbook references? Ok, Page 110, Table 7.1 of the "NSCA's Guide to Sport and Exercise Nutrition", Summary of Popular Sport Supplements, Nutrients, Theoretical Ergogenic Value, Summary of research findings. Then read about 76 more pages on the DIFFERENCES and side effects of individual substances. 



Please, I am around this stuff on a daily basis, you are out of your league. I am in School for Applied Exercise Science/Nutrition as well.

PLEASE pick up a copy of Tabor's Medical Dictionary as well, I know you are into fitness, but if you are this far off bro, I URGE you to learn some more about your body before you seriously injure yourself.


And again, I am simply this whole time trying to play devil's advocate. I don't care. It will be an interesting defense. One that has worked innumerable times in the past. We don't even know if he was on them or not, it could be natural gains, hell, certainly appears to be, but that will all come out in the wash.

Let's try not to get worked up about this, we aren't on the jury.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (May 22, 2013)

Dan said:


> I can always send nudes to you Randy if you want more oiled up men?



Your avatar is fine enough.


----------



## engage757 (May 22, 2013)

gunshow86de said:


> But planning to hire someone to kill your wife is not a result of increased aggression. Maybe if they were having an argument and Tim assaulted her "in the heat of the moment," then you could argue steroids. But not this.



But it has worked as a defense before, temporary insanity caused by a substance. 

Again, I don't care, but it has worked as a defense.


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## gunshow86de (May 22, 2013)

engage757 said:


> Many Steroids do the same thing, simply causing the body to produce Testosterone on a mass-scale. In general, you aren't INJECTING or taking mass testosterone, you are simply stimulating your body to produce more of it. It simply depends on which "steroids" you are taking.



I believe most of us are assuming anabolic steroids, ie synthetic testosterone you inject into your body in place of natural testosterone. Your balls shrink because your body stops producing it's own testosterone. 

Out of curiosity, what forms of steroids make your body produce more test, naturally? I need to know, uh, for a friend. 

/this is getting way off-topic
//how has eaeolian not banned everyone yet?


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## engage757 (May 22, 2013)

gunshow86de said:


> I believe most of us are assuming anabolic steroids, ie synthetic testosterone you inject into your body in place of natural testosterone. Your balls shrink because your body stops producing it's own testosterone.
> 
> Out of curiosity, what forms of steroids make your body produce more test, naturally? I need to know, uh, for a friend.
> 
> ...



we should probably move this to it's own thread. 

Off the record, check out ZMA. Natural testosterone booster. I am in no way recommending it's use, as I have no first hand experience, but a friend of mine uses it. Legal and natural.

ACTUALLY, just by taking vitamins like B6 and Zinc, you can naturally boost test!

OK, back on topic!


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## Xaios (May 22, 2013)

dcoughlin1 said:


>



_Later that day..._

"I'll pay you $1,000 to kill Stitch. He's a bad influence and Lilo will develop healthier relationships without him."


----------



## skisgaar (May 23, 2013)

erotophonophilia said:


> I don't even like In Flames, but I can tell you that's pretty pathetic.
> 
> AILD's scheme was "were a Christian band." That's true. Not as many people would've listened to them if they had Satanic imagery, even though they would've been better musicians. Notice no black metal musicians have done this.
> If it was steroids, he would've pulled a Chris Benoit, instead of getting someone else to do it. I'm sure he was stupid enough to post a Craig's list add. You're not gonna find a hitman on killmywife.com



.............What the hell are you even trying to say?


----------



## Equivoke (May 23, 2013)

Anthony said:


>



I checked the entire thread twice, no one did.


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## engage757 (May 23, 2013)

skisgaar said:


> .............What the hell are you even trying to say?



You will have to excuse him, he doesn't even know.


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## Randy (May 23, 2013)

Alright, alright. The last few pages have been fun but we need to get back on-topic. This is General Music. This thread is about Tim Lambesis' arrest.


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## Uncreative123 (May 23, 2013)

Sorry big R, just let me squeeze this rebuttal in here and then I'm good.





Randy said:


> I think it's hilarious that you exclusively troll the lifestyle/fitness forums (I've gotten more than a few reports of your bullying in there) and the only time you poke your head into General Music, it's to discuss a guy lifting weights and supposedly taking steroids, and turn it around as essentially another infomercial for how much you know about lifting weights.
> 
> *NOBODY CARES.*




haha, ouch, right in the feels. I went back through my posts and saw that out of the last 10 only two were in the Lifestyle sub-forum; even I was surprised. I think it's a stretch to say 'nobody cares' judging from the feedback of my last thread there in conjunction with the questions I'm often asked here. It might be more apt to say YOU don't care, but I'm not sure about that now because it kinda seems like you're keeping track of everything I do or say. Not that I take issue with that.

I don't bully anyone- here or there. I would define bullying as name-calling or picking on someone for the way they look, skin-type, gender, sexual orientation, and in general things that are out of a persons control. I've never done that and to suggest that I have is libel. People don't like to be corrected or told they're wrong- and anytime I explain why or prove someone wrong they become *very* defensive and usually agitated. I've been called countless names and constantly baited...and I couldn't care less. I'm not about to go whine to a moderator about it because I'm not socially mature/adjusted enough to be able to deal with it. 


So here I'm going to respond to this person who *thinks* they know everything, who proclaims loudly that they know more than me, and I will *explain to them* without name-calling what they are wrong about, why they are wrong, and in doing so it should demonstrate that I do know what I'm talking about.


This is about education.




engage757 said:


> I am sorry, I simply can't let this go.
> 
> Yes, specifics of the drug. You have ZERO idea what he was taking or the dosage and frequency. It makes absolute perfect sense.



False- If (and remember, that's IF) he was taking AS, regardless of the compound, all Anabolic Steroids are synthetic derivatives of Testosterone. While different esters and different compounds produce different results- at heart they still affect you the same way ***In the same sense that alcohol, regardless of whether it's gin, vodka, rum, or whiskey still are going to affect a person in the same way. * A 19-Nor structured drug like Deca (Nandrolone) or a 17-Alpha Alkalated compound like Dianabol (Methandrostenolone) while both having completely different chem. structures they are both used for bulking. Whereas Tren (Trenbalone) is a 19-nor but used for cutting (opposite of bulking)- in all its different esters (Enanthate, Acetate, and all the newer derivatives). The half-life of the drug seems to be a far bigger culprit for incidences of 'rage' than the compound itself. Shorter esters like Acetate need to be injected more frequently for stable blood levels, typically every day or EOD; Longer esters like Enanthate which have a two week half-life only need to be taken one or typically twice a week.

The point here is that while I personally know 40-50 different people that use AS regularly or have in the past, men and women both, I've seen zero incidents of 'roid-rage'. I have seen FAR too many incidents of alcohol induced rage in people who seemed perfectly normal. If you are an unstable person to begin with, AS is only going to amplify that. I'm sure there are people out there like that who shouldn't be taking AS because of this, but I think we all have that one friend we know shouldn't be drinking either because of how uncontrollable/black out drunk they get. That seems to be far more prevalent. If the 'rage' existed, it'd be more animalistic and a response to a situation. It would not make you methodically plan out a detailed murder plot over the course of however many weeks. 



> There are many types of performance enhancing substances. ALL lumped under the term "steroid". MANY people don't know the difference. Say what you want, but no matter what the substance, people will have a different reaction. neg-rep me all you want, but I am sitting next to someone with a master's degree in applied exercise science that deals with collegiate sports on a daily basis.  My Girlfriend, who is assisting in the thought process of my rant here, also has assisted in drug testing for the US Olympic Team, as well as NUMEROUS NCAA tournaments, events, teams and is a keynote presenter at the North American Athletic Trainer's conference.
> 
> Sure, some people may have similar reactions, but it is absolute ignorance to say that everyone will react to the boosters (no matter what they are) the same way. NOT ONLY on a biological and physiological plane, but also, your mental plane as well.


I'm going to go the Good Will Hunting route on this one. The fact that you or a girl you're with goes to school for this, means nothing and doesn't add any sort of credibility or validity to your statements. This is all public knowledge and information that anybody can acquire for free online. Anybody here that frequents a gym knows what a joke Personal Trainers are. They're not big, they're not ripped, half the time you wouldn't even know they were a trainer if not for the word "TRAINER" in caps on the back of their shirt. So because they went to school for sports medicine or 'applied exercise science' that means they know more than me or everyone else in the gym who is in better shape, eats better, is bigger, and lifts with proper form? LOL. I understand how glycogen depletion and protein synthesis works too and I didn't have to go to school for it haha.



> Want to bring in psychedelics? Sure, let's. LSD is a synthetic version of the fungus Ergot. LSD causes the brain to produce MASS amounts of Seratonin, stimulating brain activity in different regions. Many Steroids do the same thing, simply causing the body to produce Testosterone on a mass-scale. ANY time the body is thrown out of it's natural cycles, side effects will happen. And they will be different with each individual, it's a medical fact. In general, you aren't INJECTING or taking mass testosterone, you are simply stimulating your body to produce more of it. It simply depends on which "steroids" you are taking. They can inhibit or accentuate certain things. Point blank, it causes a chemical and hormonal imbalance, the side effects of which are OBVIOUSLY different for each individual. Which OBVIOUSLY effects the brain, because it is operating on a different pattern than normal. all people have a "range" of hormonal levels. men and women. By changing that, you are basically basically re-wiring a circuit board.
> 
> And I don't need to watch a stupid video to know that.


Yeah, you need to watch a lot more than that because your information is COMPLETELY backwards. The above statement is where you really shot yourself in the foot. *Everything you said about anabolic steroids there is completely wrong, backwards, misinformed, unintelligible, etc.*

ANY time you take ANY kind of anabolic steroids, doesn't matter what ester, what chem structure, your body's natural production begins to shut down...NOT increase. There is no steroid that causes your body to produce Testosterone. When you are putting excess amounts of Testosterone in your body it signals the body's HPTA to shut-down; Stay on for too long and you could be looking at permanent shut down. That's why people do 'cycles'. HCG (human chorionic gonadotropin) (what Manny Ramirez got nailed for) which isn't a steroid, is the only substance you can take which keeps your Leydig cells functioning (your balls at full size) while natural test production is still offline. So again, that's not producing Testosterone. T3/T4, which are peptides- not steroids, operate in the same manner and will shut down your body's natural Thyroid production...not cause you to produce more of it. Do you know the difference between a steroid and a peptide? Do you know the difference between Insulin, IGF-1, GH, GHRP-6, GHRP-2, and CJC-1295? Do you know the difference between SERMS (selective estrogen receptor modulators) and AIs (Aromatize Inhibitors) and when to use which? This is really beginner, basic stuff that you should know like the back of your hand if you're going to start proclaiming you know half of what you actually know. I mean, that's not even necessarily steroid knowledge, that's like basic human anatomy and physiology knowledge. I would love to have this debate in person because I really don't need the internet at my fingertips to rattle this stuff off. Knowledge is power.




> Please, I am around this stuff on a daily basis, you are out of your league. I am in School for Applied Exercise Science/Nutrition as well.
> 
> PLEASE pick up a copy of Tabor's Medical Dictionary as well, I know you are into fitness, but if you are this far off bro, I URGE you to learn some more about your body before you seriously injure yourself.


Haha, you clearly are NOT around this on a daily basis. You clearly do not understand how AS works. Nor would I expect you to. I know many a people enrolled for various sports medicine/PT classes and discussion about AS is practically non-existent. What little there is, is usually very misinformed. This is how and why kids end up going into Nutri-sport or Complete Nutrition and end up taking pro-hormones, completely destroying their Endocrine system and HPTA and ending up on TRT for the rest of their lives. All because some shithead behind the counter told them what to do and they didn't bother to do any research on their own. Pro-hormones are 10 times worse than AS, have the same basic chem structure, and yet they're legal. The legality of that is another issue altogether...and I already know you know everything about law too, so feel free to go to town on that one.

"Please" stop claiming you know what you're talking about because of some class you're taking. I live outside the classroom. Misinformation, especially on subjects like this can be very dangerous. You are only contributing to that and need to stop. You have not put in your research hours on this. Your other post about ZMA literally made me burst out laughing. "Hell just take zinc and b6"...lol what exactly do you think ZMA is? It's Zinc and Magnesium and most formulas have B6 in them as well. It's cheaper to buy it as ZMA rather than two or three different sups. too. I love how you admitted that you've never even taken it 'but have a friend that does'- as if taking ZMA is some big deal. You can buy it at Wal-Mart or any grocery store. And ZMA's big selling point is that it helps promote sleep and increase IGF-1 levels, with natty test production being a smaller side to that because of the IGF-1. There are a lot of other things you can take for boosting naturally Test levels too- Tribulus being the main one...which again you can buy anywhere.


----------



## wat (May 23, 2013)

FWIW, it IS possible fior performance enhancing drugs to completely put someone in a mental funk, enough to do something completely crazy.

On the other hand, it is also possible to achieve his results naturally.


What I think is funny though, is the fanbois in the comments sections on youtube saying that he was set up as if they really know the guy.

You can't exactly trick someone into hiring someone to kill their wife.


----------



## Randy (May 23, 2013)

Uncreative123 said:


> tl;dr



I'm going to let all the rep/thanks/reports/PMs I've gotten about you do all the talking with regard to exactly "who" cares about what you say.

That said, I'm letting that post stay and not banning you only because you took some lumps over the last few pages and I'll let you get that last point in. I also enjoy how apropos of my statement it is that you decided to post a few pages worth of -tada- bodybuildingbullshit.

After this, take it to PMs. Everybody. Off-topic posts will be handled with extreme prejudice (read: LONG).


----------



## engage757 (May 23, 2013)

Randy said:


> I'm going to let all the rep/thanks/reports/PMs I've gotten about you do all the talking with regard to exactly "who" cares about what you say.
> 
> That said, I'm letting that post stay and not banning you only because you took some lumps over the last few pages and I'll let you get that last point in. I also enjoy how apropos of my statement it is that you decided to post a few pages worth of -tada- bodybuildingbullshit.
> 
> After this, take it to PMs. Everybody. Off-topic posts will be handled with extreme prejudice (read: LONG).


EDIT:
Ok, Randy I can respect that.

Wish I hadn't just written a two page rebuttal though. 

I will leave this link here though:
http://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/drugfacts/anabolic-steroids



And not say another word about the matter in regards to that.


BACK ON TOPIC. 

Tim's defense could be a solid one. despite what certain people may think, there is enough common sense and factual knowledge to state WITHOUT A DOUBT that ANY drug effects an individual differently, at least on some levels. Certain steroids are known to cause paranoid delusions. from the above website, "Researchers have also observed that users may suffer from paranoid jealousy, extreme irritability, delusions, and impaired judgment stemming from feelings of invincibility." Paranoid delusions could most definitely be used in court as a defense for not being in his right mind etc.

At this point though, I should remind everyone that we are not on the jury, I am simply playing devil's advocate here, and whilst I am an As I Lay Dying fan, I understand this defense could be a very good one.

EITHER WAY.

Tim's career has been tarnished. I think it is fairly obvious that one way or another, he won't be in As I Lay Dying anymore, and no matter what the verdict, he will be thought guilty by a lot of people, and that will shed negative light on a positive band.


----------



## potatohead (May 23, 2013)

engage757 said:


> Tim's career has been tarnished. I think it is fairly obvious that one way or another, he won't be in As I Lay Dying anymore, and no matter what the verdict, he will be thought guilty by a lot of people, and that will shed negative light on a positive band.



Agreed.

I really liked this band, too. Major bummer for me. In the end though, if it's true, I'm glad nobody is dead.


----------



## Friendroid (May 23, 2013)

Can someone summarize these 17 pages? I posted when it became known that he hired a hitman, now weight-lifting and drugs are being discussed?


----------



## engage757 (May 23, 2013)

Friendroid said:


> Can someone summarize these 17 pages? I posted when it became known that he hired a hitman, now weight-lifting and drugs are being discussed?



Sure bro.

Guy mentions he wished his wife were dead to guy at gym. Guy at gym tells cops for unknown reason. cops set up sting operation and arrest 1st guy handing them cash to kill his wife. Guy's lawyer says it is setup and that it was based on guy's steroid use changing his state of mind. User on here says all steroid type drugs react the same to every individual. becomes argument for four pages of nonsense.

Think that's about it.


----------



## Friendroid (May 23, 2013)

I love you AND the internet!


----------



## engage757 (May 23, 2013)

Aww thanks! Me too, the Internet, giving fifteen year olds and fools the chance to bitch at complete strangers whom they know nothing about to prove they know something to themselves.  I think the Internet in general needs gangs.  

It's great when people argue, it increases traffic and drives up the cost of ad space.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams (May 23, 2013)

inb4 lock


----------



## RagtimeDandy (May 24, 2013)

Jeebus, I was wondering why this thread was still hanging around - absolutely no damn reason at all! Is there any actual news on the matter?


----------



## JosephAOI (May 24, 2013)

There's this:

New Details On AS I LAY DYING Frontman Tim Lambesis' Arrest, Lawyer Switchover - Metal Injection | Tim Lambesis Trial | Metal Injection

Some guy from B&N saw the arrest.


----------



## Joose (May 24, 2013)

Won't be shocked if he was set up.

Won't be shocked if he actually did this.


----------



## flint757 (May 24, 2013)

He needs to stick to something and go with it.

As far as being setup, I think he could convince a jury of that with no audio or video evidence, but if there is any at all he is screwed and that person is just trying to save his ass. 

Wouldn't Barnes & Noble have cameras on their property too?


----------



## Basti (May 24, 2013)

It seems to be that the less information is released, the bigger and more animated the discussion it sparks becomes.


----------



## engage757 (May 24, 2013)

Basti said:


> It seems to be that the less information is released, the bigger and more animated the discussion it sparks becomes.



Of course! Welcome to the internet!


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (May 30, 2013)

AS I LAY DYING Frontman Tim Lambesis Released From Custody - Metal Injection | Tim Lambesis Trial | Metal Injection



He's out on bail.
http://www.metalinjection.net/lates...g-frontman-tim-lambesis-released-from-custody


----------



## Breakdown (May 30, 2013)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> AS I LAY DYING Frontman Tim Lambesis Released From Custody - Metal Injection | Tim Lambesis Trial | Metal Injection
> 
> 
> 
> He's out on bail.



I wonder if they ended up paying the 2 mil or if the judge lowered it.


----------



## flint757 (May 30, 2013)

He wouldn't have to pay the whole 2 million anyhow, that's what bail bonds are for.


----------



## abandonist (May 30, 2013)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> He's out on bail.



Fresh outta jail.


----------



## SoItGoesRVA (Jul 7, 2013)

http://timlambesis.tumblr.com/post/54852232588/what-i-can-talk-about

I'm just gonna leave this right here...


----------



## 7Heavyness (Jul 7, 2013)

How much is he paying?


----------



## Joose (Jul 7, 2013)

I really do hope he isn't guilty.

This whole experience, especially if he is truly innocent, could make for a great album, lyrically. I need another "An Ocean Between Us".


----------



## Lon (Jul 7, 2013)

so he wrote 4 paragraphs of fancy english words about how he is reexamining christianity?


----------



## bnosam (Jul 7, 2013)

Joose said:


> I really do hope he isn't guilty.
> 
> This whole experience, especially if he is truly innocent, could make for a great album, lyrically. I need another "An Ocean Between Us".



Well I mean, even if he isn't guilty, people will still perceive him as guilty and it may affect his career negatively in some aspects. I won't ever listen to their music the same again (not that I listened to it really before).


----------



## SoItGoesRVA (Jul 7, 2013)

I really want to see how he tries to spin this. He admitted to steroid use, so the best he can hope for is a plea deal.


----------



## M3CHK1LLA (Jul 8, 2013)

SoItGoesRVA said:


> http://timlambesis.tumblr.com/post/54852232588/what-i-can-talk-about
> 
> I'm just gonna leave this right here...



^ no good


> Not Found
> The URL you requested could not be found.




is he still out? any new info?


----------



## Joose (Jul 8, 2013)

bnosam said:


> Well I mean, even if he isn't guilty, people will still perceive him as guilty and it may affect his career negatively in some aspects. I won't ever listen to their music the same again (not that I listened to it really before).



Well, if he's "proven" innocent, it'll make me happy. I have a soft spot for As I Lay Dying. They were one of the bands that really helped move me into the more serious styles of metal. Before them and a few others, it was all Nu Metal pretty much.

Found out about them at a show too. Epic show lol. AILD was tourng in support of Frail Words Collapse. Bleeding Through supporting This Is Love, This Is Murderous. Soilwork supporting Figure Number Five. Chimaira supporting The Impossibility of Reason.

Man, I forgot how great that was...


----------



## SoItGoesRVA (Jul 8, 2013)

M3CHK1LLA said:


> ^ no good
> 
> 
> 
> is he still out? any new info?




He removed the statements, but Metalsucks has it still: As I Lay Dying's Tim Lambesis Releases, Retracts Statement | MetalSucks


----------



## bce5150 (Jul 8, 2013)

bnosam said:


> Well I mean, even if he isn't guilty, people will still perceive him as guilty and it may affect his career negatively in some aspects. I won't ever listen to their music the same again (not that I listened to it really before).



Lame. Even if I hate his rotten guts and hope he dies, it won't affect how I perceive his music. It still sounds the same man. We all know Dave Mustaine sucks, but isn't Wake Up Dead a bitchin song?

Separate the art from the artist. For all we know, Stradivari could have been the biggest dick in the world, but would you refuse to play one of his instruments because of that? If I told you Michelangelo murdered a little girl in a back alleyway, would the Sistine Chapel look ugly all of a sudden?


----------



## Goro923 (Jul 8, 2013)

bce5150 said:


> If I told you Michelangelo murdered a little girl in a back alleyway, would the Sistine Chapel look ugly all of a sudden?



Yeah, because whenever I hear something involving little children and The Vatican, my brain jumps to Michaelangelo. What a perv.


----------



## wat (Jul 8, 2013)

Hmm, I'm not sure how one can frame or "entrap" someone else into soliciting a cop to kill your wife & I would imagine if he's innocent his public statements would have a different tune. When you're innocent of a crime you're being accused of, you it's not a "complex and multifaceted situation"

Something that's really unfortunate is that trying to murder his wife and apparently losing his religion are coinciding. Surely those with a certain agenda are gonna have a field day with that.


----------



## flint757 (Jul 8, 2013)

Field days will be had.

Agreed. If he were innocent the situation wouldn't be that complicated. Multifaceted almost sounds like he is implying there was a 'good' reason to kill his wife or something.


----------



## Draceius (Sep 16, 2013)

I hate necro bumping but I don't want to make a new thread when there is already a massive thread for this, but more news:
BREAKING: AS I LAY DYING Frontman Tim Lambesis' Case Going To Trial [w/Court Room Footage] - Metal Injection | Tim Lambesis Trial


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 17, 2013)

Steroids Found In As I Lay Dying Frontman&#39;s Home - Blabbermouth.net

Looks like he was a juicer.


----------



## Nats (Sep 17, 2013)

I'm sure steriods had nothing to do with it. Wrestlers use steriods all the time and they don't go around killing their spouses or children or themselves.


----------



## Dwellingers (Sep 17, 2013)

Nats said:


> I'm sure steriods had nothing to do with it. Wrestlers use steriods all the time and they don't go around killing their spouses or children or themselves.



Exactly - roid rage has been deemed false long time ago.


----------



## abandonist (Sep 17, 2013)

lol


----------



## wankerness (Sep 17, 2013)

Nats said:


> I'm sure steriods had nothing to do with it. Wrestlers use steriods all the time and they don't go around killing their spouses or children or themselves.



I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not, but LOL either way


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 17, 2013)

wankerness said:


> I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not, but LOL either way



Yeah, I just caught on. Lol'd. Then cringed.


----------



## mattofvengeance (Sep 17, 2013)

Nats said:


> I'm sure steriods had nothing to do with it. Wrestlers use steriods all the time and they don't go around killing their spouses or children or themselves.



Right, because it couldn't have been the multitude of concussions, including those that went undiagnosed.


----------



## rectifryer (Sep 17, 2013)

I feel if it was roid rage he would have just flew off the handle instead of premeditating the act. This wasn't impulsive.

Steroids do affect emotions greatly depending on what you take. If you do not take some sort of estrogen suppression with something as aggressive as, say, clen, you are going to have a very bad time. If you are the lead singer of a death metal band whose sole job is to convey emotion, you might struggle if your cycles are tight. 

There ARE dangers to steroids, kids. Used properly they can be amazing, though. Using them properly requires doctor supervision or someone with a LOT of experience. Its not something you just pick up and do.


----------



## cwhitey2 (Feb 7, 2014)

Tim Lambesis Appeared in Court Today | Metal Injection


----------



## cwhitey2 (Feb 19, 2014)

Not that anyone cares anymore 


Leaked Court Transcripts of TIM LAMBESIS Trial Read Like An Episode of LAW & ORDER | Metal Injection


----------



## TeeWX (Feb 19, 2014)

Wonder how this will pan out


----------



## gunshow86de (Feb 19, 2014)

TeeWX said:


> Wonder how this will pan out



The evidence is pretty strong. If all this is really on tape, then it's really just a question of what his sentence will be (barring a mistrial due to some procedural screw up).



> The undercover officer tried to get Lambesis to use the word kill or dead during their conversation, which he said was recorded, but Lambesis resisted. But he continued to say repeatedly that, I want her gone. I want her never ever, ever to come back.
> Then Lambesis started to walk away. So, as he was leaving, we got about fifteen or twenty feet away from each other and he turned back to me and he goes, *Just to clarify, just so you know, I do want her dead*.



Yeah, he's fvcked.


----------



## UltraParanoia (Feb 19, 2014)

cwhitey2 said:


> Leaked Court Transcripts of TIM LAMBESIS Trial Read Like An Episode of LAW & ORDER | Metal Injection



& to go with it. AS I LAY DYING Guitarist Hints At Band's Future In New Interview | Metal Injection

I was hoping they'd do like Suicide Silence & replace him.
They are a great band & every album is better than the last. 

I really think he's buggered


----------



## TheDeathOfMusic (Feb 20, 2014)

"Just to clarify, just so you know, I do want her dead."
I found this so funny for some reason


----------



## Ralyks (Feb 20, 2014)

Yeah, that last sentence was all he needed to screw himself. His only hope is the court finding something wrong with the protocol in which his arrest was carried out.


----------



## anomynous (Feb 25, 2014)

As I Lay Dying&#8217;s Tim Lambesis Gets Nine Year Prison Sentence | MetalSucks

Sentenced for nine years


----------



## thrsher (Feb 25, 2014)

yeah but he will probably be eligible for parole in 3 1/2 years


----------



## Joose (Feb 25, 2014)

I'll miss AILD. He doesn't even deserve parole though.


----------



## Nats (Feb 25, 2014)

"Vince Neil only got 30 days and he killed somebody"


----------



## Randy (Feb 25, 2014)

Way less time than I was expecting.


----------



## SoItGoesRVA (Feb 25, 2014)

I lol'd.


----------



## rectifryer (Feb 25, 2014)

There aren't any roids in the cage so this guy is gonna be the bottom bitch nomsaiyan


----------



## SoItGoesRVA (Feb 25, 2014)




----------



## Darknut (Feb 25, 2014)

Nats said:


> "Vince Neil only got 30 days and he killed somebody"


----------



## SoItGoesRVA (Feb 25, 2014)

rectifryer said:


> this guy is gonna be the bottom bitch nomsaiyan


----------



## Ralyks (Feb 25, 2014)

He won't recieve his sentence until May.
But yeah, I'm willing to bet he'll get the full 9. Then again, there are various conflicting reports as to whether or not a plea bargin was involved.


----------



## rectifryer (Feb 25, 2014)

Ralyks said:


> *he'll get the full 9.*



Filtered for relevant information.


----------



## Musiscience (Feb 26, 2014)

Can't wait till he get out and change his vocal style to high shrieks singing about a... rape. Black Metal AILD


----------



## Ralyks (May 16, 2014)

Blabbermouth is reporting he got 6 years, no probation. As well as Meggan and the kids having 10 years protection from him.


----------



## JoshuaVonFlash (May 16, 2014)

Ralyks said:


> Blabbermouth is reporting he got 6 years, no probation. As well as Meggan and the kids having 10 years protection from him.


Good.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (May 19, 2014)

Bump. Nick has some strong words for Tim, and defends Meggan. 

As I Lay Dying Guitarist Nick Hipa Says Tim Lambesis Is &#39;A Sociopathic Narcissist In Definite Need Of Rehabilitation&#39; - Blabbermouth.net


----------



## The Reverend (May 19, 2014)

You know, reading his interview made him seem a lot less crazy than I thought. I don't know how much of it is actually sincere, since I saw some arguments and thought processes in there that seem to suggest some manipulatory behavior, but while I still don't condone anything Tim Lambesis did, I can actually see where he's coming from.


----------



## wannabguitarist (May 19, 2014)

The Reverend said:


> You know, reading his interview made him seem a lot less crazy than I thought. I don't know how much of it is actually sincere, since I saw some arguments and thought processes in there that seem to suggest some manipulatory behavior, but while I still don't condone anything Tim Lambesis did, I can actually see where he's coming from.



 he tried to get someone to kill his wife


----------



## ADevilsDaydream817 (May 20, 2014)

Nats said:


> "Vince Neil only got 30 days and he killed somebody"



OJ was found not guilty and he killed somebody.


----------



## The Reverend (May 20, 2014)

wannabguitarist said:


> he tried to get someone to kill his wife



And if you read the article, you can see where his messed up thought process makes a strange kind of sense. Don't act like you're somehow unable to imagine a scenario where you could get messed up enough to make a decision like that. Abstract thought is a gift, use it.


----------



## Winspear (May 20, 2014)

The Reverend said:


> And if you read the article, you can see where his messed up thought process makes a strange kind of sense. Don't act like you're somehow unable to imagine a scenario where you could get messed up enough to make a decision like that. Abstract thought is a gift, use it.



Definitely. That article was a very interesting read.


----------



## flint757 (May 20, 2014)

Ughhh the born again christian, atheism means no morality, scientists are misguided philosophers BS. Not sure if I can bother wading through much more of that interview. In particularly not a fan of the interviewer. What he says in that section is precisely why I was so bothered by the original story. I mean he sounds sincere, and it isn't entirely his fault the point comes across that way, but I don't think anyone can help that he was a stupid christian turned stupid atheist now turned stupid theist. Nope. Now people will just casually think Atheists are terrible people or 'Christians who just need a little guidance'. 

Large parts of his testimony sound like bullshit to me though. No one can be that deluded. Not even referring to the incidence before the arrest, but his thoughts about it after the fact. Despite saying he owns up to it every word comes across like excuses and 'it's not my fault'. A lot of 'I'm not ..., but...' commentary from him. 

The kind of crap he says in that interview is the kind of crap Christians love to hear about Atheists. Sounds to me like he never stopped being a Christian, he just no longer wanted to be responsible for his actions. He literally fulfills the born again stereotype. All in all it feels really canned. I actually hate him a little more after reading that. Dude doesn't actually sound remorseful at all, he sounds calculating. The fact that he keeps deflecting responsibility and adding excuses on to others is very telling to me.

His conversations with his band are rather funny too "I know I don't deserve forgiveness, but forgive me...".  He goes as far as passively being mad at them and saying, 'it's okay were business partners, not friends'. It's like he blames them for not stopping him. He then strips the band apart on a legal technicality to passively hurt them because they don't want to be associated with a nutcase. Does this guy not realize he's a prick? He subtly (or maybe not so subtly) blamed everyone, but himself through that entire interview.

I'm very familiar with people who share this dudes level of narcissism.


----------



## Konfyouzd (May 20, 2014)

ADevilsDaydream817 said:


> OJ was found not guilty and he killed somebody.



I'm still not convinced that he himself did it. But he certainly knows who did and may have paid for it...


----------



## wat (May 20, 2014)

The Reverend said:


> And if you read the article, you can see where his messed up thought process makes a strange kind of sense. Don't act like you're somehow unable to imagine a scenario where you could get messed up enough to make a decision like that. Abstract thought is a gift, use it.




Um, in no hypothetical scenario would I be brought to the point of hiring someone to kill my wife. Different strokes I guess...


----------



## Konfyouzd (May 20, 2014)

Under normal circumstances I imagine not, but I'm very much not into the idea of saying I would never do something because sometimes when I do something completely unexpected comes up where I question whether or not that's still the case.

It's very difficult to imagine killing anyone w/o a serious reason while you're in your proper state of mind. That's not to say you could never be taken out of your proper state of mind. It happens to a lot of ppl all the time.


----------



## Edika (May 20, 2014)

I think this paragraph shows how much he has regretted his actions and repented:

"I will say that whether I serve three days or three years, the lessons have been learned. At this point, it's just satisfying the public, my ex-wife and her family with a certain amount of punishment. It won&#8217;t make anybody feel better, but we all live under the illusion that punishing people makes us feel better. That&#8217;s for the judge to decide, you know, how much punishment will make society feel that I was punished."

He has learned his lesson so any punishment he receives is just to make people feel better. Yes he truly has realized the extent of his actions. 

Conceited prick.


----------



## asher (May 20, 2014)

Edika said:


> I think this paragraph shows how much he has regretted his actions and repented:
> 
> "I will say that whether I serve three days or three years, the lessons have been learned. At this point, it's just satisfying the public, my ex-wife and her family with a certain amount of punishment. It wont make anybody feel better, but we all live under the illusion that punishing people makes us feel better. Thats for the judge to decide, you know, how much punishment will make society feel that I was punished."
> 
> ...



Wow.


----------



## wowspare (May 20, 2014)

The way Tim was caught was pure entrapment. A police informant planted the seed so the likelihood is that Tim never would have even thought of the idea. And the informant harassed Tim repeatedly to talk about the idea. Tim wasn't reaching out to the "Brett" character at all.

While it's shameful for Tim to even consider the possibility, it's ridiculous that the police and their informants can use these tactics in the US. You don't plant seeds and then harass law-abiding citizens (at the time) until they either tell you to **** off or decide to follow through. Tim never would have considered such drastic tactics without "Brett", his harassment, and the chemical affect steroids had on his mind. He made some mistakes, he deserves some time, but there's no denying that he got ****ed over and set up. It wouldn't surprise me in the least of Meggan's father actually had something to do with the whole situation.

As for Meggan, I'm glad she's alive and none of this came to fruition, but just because Tim did something stupid, it doesn't justify the shit she was putting him through.


----------



## Konfyouzd (May 20, 2014)

Edika said:


> I think this paragraph shows how much he has regretted his actions and repented:
> 
> "I will say that whether I serve three days or three years, the lessons have been learned. At this point, it's just satisfying the public, my ex-wife and her family with a certain amount of punishment. It wont make anybody feel better, but we all live under the illusion that punishing people makes us feel better. Thats for the judge to decide, you know, how much punishment will make society feel that I was punished."
> 
> ...



You know... To a degree what he's said is true, but it doesn't sound very good coming from someone in his position.


----------



## Edika (May 20, 2014)

^ The thing is from all the transcripts it is evident that he initiated the search for a hitman. No one really forced him to act as he did. Also most normal people would tell the guy to .... off, not willingly engage him to kill their spouse.

EDIT: the above post was in reply to wowspare.


----------



## Edika (May 20, 2014)

Konfyouzd said:


> You know... To a degree what he's said is true, but it doesn't sound very good coming from someone in his position.



To a degree it is true. In this particular case, after reading the whole interview it is quite obvious the he has no real remorse of what he did.


----------



## Konfyouzd (May 20, 2014)

That's very true. It sounds arrogant when all the facts are considerd. Had he just been some dude on the street asked a question about the justice system I wouldn't think twice about it. But being that we know he tried to have his wife killed it's another story entirely...


----------



## GiveUpGuitar (May 20, 2014)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Bump. Nick has some strong words for Tim, and defends Meggan.
> 
> As I Lay Dying Guitarist Nick Hipa Says Tim Lambesis Is 'A Sociopathic Narcissist In Definite Need Of Rehabilitation' - Blabbermouth.net



Very strong statement, but somehow I feel like Nick tried a little too hard. Call me crazy, but does his statement feel extremely forced to anyone else? I feel like he over saturated his point. The tl;dr should have just been "He's a dick. His wife is cool. Now my band looks like a bunch of dicks. What an asshole."


----------



## Cyn__Theia (May 20, 2014)

GiveUpGuitar said:


> I feel like he over saturated his point. The tl;dr should have just been "He's a dick. His wife is cool. Now my band looks like a bunch of dicks. What an asshole."



I felt the over-saturation yesterday as I read it as well. There are a couple of those paragraphs with sentences that began the same way, in some "I watched as..." manner, like we already don't believe that he experienced what he did? I don't know. I felt like he was trying to convince me of these things instead of just explaining them in his detail and perspective.
Not that I don't appreciate him sharing and trying to open the perspectives of those who have been following the story, nor that I support Tim. I just thought it felt really forced and about 3 or 4 paragraphs too long as well.

That tl;dr statement is seriously the first thing that has made me laugh out loud all morning, though. Haha.


----------



## JosephAOI (May 20, 2014)

I don't feel like it's over-saturated at all. I feel like it's a dude who feels betrayed as shit by one of his absolute closest friends voicing his opinion. Obviously though, it's been revised by his lawyer or whatever to make sure it gives off the right message to the general public. My


----------



## SoItGoesRVA (May 20, 2014)

This is the statement that Nick made that resonated with me the most.

"The prosecution of this case profiled him as a sociopathic narcissist in definite need of rehabilitation. For those of us who truly know the man for who he is, it's shameful that in spite of all, he is still as he ever was and just as they say."


----------



## Cyn__Theia (May 20, 2014)

SoItGoesRVA said:


> This is the statement that Nick made that resonated with me the most.
> 
> "The prosecution of this case profiled him as a sociopathic narcissist in definite need of rehabilitation. For those of us who truly know the man for who he is, it's shameful that in spite of all, he is still as he ever was and just as they say."



Ah, yeah, I can most definitely say the same. I'm glad you brought this up. When I was reading that part, it was almost as if the reality of the situation and Nick's feelings manifested themselves within me and then resonated through my entire being.


----------



## flint757 (May 20, 2014)

wowspare said:


> As for Meggan, I'm glad she's alive and none of this came to fruition, but just because Tim did something stupid, it doesn't justify the shit she was putting him through.



Not going to get into whether it is entrapment or not, but you're assuming a lot here. The only account anyone has of Meggan is from Tim, the guy who tried to have her killed. Call me crazy, but I don't think he is the most reliable source when it comes to describing her character. 

If you genuinely buy his story at face value then he basically admits to being out of his mind for quite some time. There is a high probability that he was an unfit parent during this time period (he admits that and then immediately blows it off, then later on throws a petty slight in her direction when no one even asked). I'd be wary too if I had to leave my kid with a chemically imbalanced drug abuser. The whole thing read like double speak. He was saying he is guilty, that he wants to own up to it, blah blah blah, but in almost every sentence he is throwing blame left and right or he puts a compliment out there only to dis someone immediately following it. That's a clear sign of no remorse or guilt as far as I'm concerned. To sit there and say he has been punished enough is almost laughable all things considered. He's deluded.

Honestly, I think he's got a few screws loose and the steroids played a minimal role at best. I mean he's supposedly clean and his interview reads like someone with a mental disorder. He is completely conceded and delusional throughout the whole thing. Reading his supposed story I can't help, but assume I'm missing 75% of it. His perspective is incredibly one sided (as you'd expect, but still).


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## MJS (May 20, 2014)

Edika said:


> I think this paragraph shows how much he has regretted his actions and repented:
> 
> "I will say that whether I serve three days or three years, the lessons have been learned. At this point, it's just satisfying the public, my ex-wife and her family with a certain amount of punishment. It wont make anybody feel better, but we all live under the illusion that punishing people makes us feel better. Thats for the judge to decide, you know, how much punishment will make society feel that I was punished."
> 
> ...



That sounds like something you might expect to hear from someone doing 10 years for something harmless like possession of a joint or two... not someone whose wife is only alive because her husband is a moron. 

Hope he has a good memory. It would be a shame if he slips the same cop an envelope full of cash to kill "the public" for wanting to see him punished, even though he already learned his lesson.


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## wat (May 20, 2014)

I don't think Hipa's statement was overdone.


It sounds like he was pretty close with and fond of Tim's wife and kids. It's probably pretty heartbroking to see those who are basically family go through such a terrible thing(just imagine how the kids feel) at the hand of someone else who is also basically family. AILD has been the dude's life for like 15 years now and I don't know how long TIm and his wife were together but I wouldn't be surprised if Tim's wife and kids felt like family to him.


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## flint757 (May 20, 2014)

I don't think he realizes that the only reason he 'learned' his lesson (I don't actually believe he did) is because he got caught, got charged with a crime and will have to serve his sentence. If he got off Scot-free he likely wouldn't have learned a thing as there would have been no consequence for his actions. He can say he's punished already because he lost his kids, but it sounds like he lost them a long time ago according to that interview and probably for good reason given what we know for certain.


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## MJS (May 20, 2014)

flint757 said:


> I don't think he realizes that the only reason he 'learned' his lesson (I don't actually believe he did) is because he got caught, got charged with a crime and will have to serve his sentence. *If he got off Scot-free he likely wouldn't have learned a thing* as there would have been no consequence for his actions.



Bingo. 

Plus, did he say what lessons he learned? Maybe the lesson he's talking about is "No one's who they seem, so if you want someone dead, kill them yourself... that way, if you you go to jail, at least they're dead."


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## flint757 (May 20, 2014)

Despite my feelings about it all the article was quite an interesting read. Whether he was bullshitting, telling the truth or what he believed was the truth it gave us a nice peak into a mad mans mind. I find it hilarious when illogical, irrational people think they are just the opposite of that.


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## Sean Conklin (May 20, 2014)

And did anyone else catch how Tim has a girlfriend right now??? Something tells me she has a few screws loose.


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## rainbowbrite (May 21, 2014)

Edika said:


> I think this paragraph shows how much he has regretted his actions and repented:
> 
> "I will say that whether I serve three days or three years, the lessons have been learned. At this point, it's just satisfying the public, my ex-wife and her family with a certain amount of punishment. It wont make anybody feel better, but we all live under the illusion that punishing people makes us feel better. Thats for the judge to decide, you know, how much punishment will make society feel that I was punished."
> 
> ...



guy feels bad because he got caught. shocking.


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## spawnofthesith (May 21, 2014)

One of the most interesting things about that article to me is his comment about how many "christian metal bands" were actually christians in their years of touring. I always kind of figured that a lot of it had to be a money making gimmick.


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## cwhitey2 (May 21, 2014)

Edika said:


> To a degree it is true. In this particular case, after reading the whole interview it is quite obvious the he has no real remorse of what he did.



He has remorse...




Remorse that he got caught!


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## Daf57 (May 21, 2014)

Interesting discussion on the subject of murder for hire and Tim's situation from Head.

*HeAds KoRner: Brian Head Welch on His Own Personal Pain and the Plight of Tim Lambesis*
Korn's Brian 'Head' Welch on the Plight of Tim Lambesis


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## GiveUpGuitar (May 21, 2014)

Daf57 said:


> Interesting discussion on the subject of murder for hire and Tim's situation from Head.
> 
> *HeAds KoRner: Brian Head Welch on His Own Personal Pain and the Plight of Tim Lambesis*
> Korn's Brian 'Head' Welch on the Plight of Tim Lambesis



Now THAT is a bold statement. When did potential wife murdering become a trend in metal?

Seriously tho, Head's statement is of a different perspective. Although its not the prime situation to sit back and say "Yeah, I've been there," he does actually sound like a human, as opposed to Tim, who just sounds all too pleasantly cynical.


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## flint757 (May 21, 2014)

GiveUpGuitar said:


> Now THAT is a bold statement. When did potential wife murdering become a trend in metal?
> 
> Seriously tho, Head's statement is of a different perspective. Although its not the prime situation to sit back and say "Yeah, I've been there," he does actually sound like a human, as opposed to Tim, who just sounds all too pleasantly cynical.



It's funny how casually people can admit to drug use and conspiracy to commit murder like they can't get in trouble for it. 

He definitely sounds more remorseful about it and he didn't throw any blame around at least. From a writers perspective what Head said is definitely more believable. Tim on the other hand not so much.

One line in the Head article stuck out at me:



> I had already murdered them in my heart.




This right here is exactly what bothers me about the scripture where Jesus says something to the effect of thinking about it is equal to doing it. That line allows justification for the mentality above. After all, if you're going to be judged just as harshly, you might as well go through with it, right? 

He sounds more human and remorseful, but equally delusional about the severity of his thoughts and he has to be a little bit stupid to publicly admit that too (from a PR and legal standpoint as well as being a parent). How is killing his daughters mom good for his child? How is doing a shit ton of coke good for her? How is hanging with high level gang members good? They both lay claim to trying to better their children's lives, but they don't sound like an improvement.

[EDIT]

I should note that I'm aware that NOW he is a much better person. My comment is in reference to the time period when Head was supposedly going to also have his wife killed.


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## Joose (May 22, 2014)

I like what Head had to say, despite getting a little preachy in the end. But, that's just me believing that "God" is not a being and that the things "he does" are just people's brains and consciences making good/bad decisions and good/bad things happening.

Tim did not make a good decision; Head did, thanks to his crew member and his past, nothing else.


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## SDMFVan (May 22, 2014)




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## bce5150 (May 23, 2014)

TheMetatron said:


> I felt the over-saturation yesterday as I read it as well. There are a couple of those paragraphs with sentences that began the same way, in some "I watched as..." manner, like we already don't believe that he experienced what he did? I don't know. I felt like he was trying to convince me of these things instead of just explaining them in his detail and perspective.
> Not that I don't appreciate him sharing and trying to open the perspectives of those who have been following the story, nor that I support Tim. I just thought it felt really forced and about 3 or 4 paragraphs too long as well.
> 
> That tl;dr statement is seriously the first thing that has made me laugh out loud all morning, though. Haha.



I have an extremely high tolerance to meandering prose, so long as it contributes to the propagation of the point at hand. IMO, Nick's statement was not well written. I totally like how he threw the wrench in the spokes and you're like, "Oh shit! He's throwing Tim under the bus and Megan is the actual friend he's talking about!". I really like the way he cast his allegiance like that. Totally respectable stance, and totally respectable way of throwing it out to the world. But dude.... some of those sentences sounded like ass.

It's like he's trying too hard to shred and what comes out is derivative of what the true intention was, when in reality it would have yielded greater impact if he just trimmed some of the superfluous shit.... Totally not metaphorical to his playing 

Nahhh jk... I love Nick's playing... just thought some of the sentences sounded like ass.


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## estabon37 (Jun 19, 2014)

Apologies for the necro-bump, but I couldn't find any other references to this article on the site. I saw this link floating around on the web and somehow didn't make the connection to AILD because the title is a little generic...

Convicted heavy metal 'Christian' singer admits being Atheist, duped fans to sell music

It's a weird article because the emphasis in the 'story' relects the emphasis in the headline: essentially that 'Lambesis is an Atheist who took advantage of Christians to make money', as opposed to 'Lambesis is a terrible person who got caught paying somebody to kill his wife'. It's a really strange read. There's not a lot of information in the so-called article that we don't already know, but I couldn't help adding it to the conversation here because it's almost hilarious just how completely the article's author misses the most important elements of the story.


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## flint757 (Jun 19, 2014)

I kind of feel like the opposite is what happened, he became an Atheist so he didn't have to feel guilty for his crimes. Nothing he has said before, during or after this ordeal gives me the impression he was ever really an Atheist, especially the way he describes being one in the articles posted above yours. Either way he's ....ing insane.


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## JoshuaVonFlash (Jun 19, 2014)

OT: But I read this in the comment section

"Religion will fail. But Christianity is not a religion, it is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ! That is the difference"


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## flint757 (Jun 19, 2014)

You'd be surprised how many people think that makes sense. It's scary.


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## asher (Jun 19, 2014)

estabon37 said:


> Apologies for the necro-bump, but I couldn't find any other references to this article on the site. I saw this link floating around on the web and somehow didn't make the connection to AILD because the title is a little generic...
> 
> Convicted heavy metal 'Christian' singer admits being Atheist, duped fans to sell music
> 
> It's a weird article because the emphasis in the 'story' relects the emphasis in the headline: essentially that 'Lambesis is an Atheist who took advantage of Christians to make money', as opposed to 'Lambesis is a terrible person who got caught paying somebody to kill his wife'. It's a really strange read. There's not a lot of information in the so-called article that we don't already know, but I couldn't help adding it to the conversation here because it's almost hilarious just how completely the article's author misses the most important elements of the story.



The site is called "Christian News".


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## LLink2411 (Jun 19, 2014)

JoshuaVonFlash said:


> OT: But I read this in the comment section
> 
> "Religion will fail. But Christianity is not a religion, it is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ! That is the difference"



Same difference.

But he is right, it promotes a personal connection with the divine rather than indoctrination into a specific society.


I know this is SSO and the fedora is strong with this place, but just chiming in for clarification.


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## rectifryer (Jun 19, 2014)

I don't see how Tim's situation is anything like Head's, but some of the sentiment is true.

The whole spiel that falsely equates the sanctity of 2nd chances with other values seems to completely undermine common values like not murdering people.


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## Jakke (Jun 29, 2014)

LLink2411 said:


> Same difference.
> 
> But he is right, it promotes a personal connection with the divine rather than indoctrination into a specific society.




"Oh no, it's not a religion, it's a _personal relationship_....


This is tired, but:

*Religion*
noun
1.
a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2.
a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3.
the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4.
the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5.
the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.


Yeah, christianity is a religion. "Indoctrinating someone into a particular culture" is not in any part of the definition of a religion. The Oxford Dictionary even puts in the "personal" aspect that you claim make christianity *not* a religion:
"The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods"



LLink2411 said:


> I know this is SSO and the fedora is strong with this place, but just chiming in for clarification.



I am as an angry atheist this place has, and I have never owned a trilby in my life (because trilby is what you mean). I don't particularly appreciate the implied ad hom, but I do like the undertone of persecution that you managed to get in.

*EDIT*

Really?


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## LLink2411 (Jun 29, 2014)

Jakke said:


> "Oh no, it's not a religion, it's a _personal relationship_....
> 
> 
> This is tired, but:
> ...


I have never personally had an "atheist" seek me out before to put words in my mouth and go through their (what I am guessing) well-practiced rhetoric. In a dead thread nonetheless. Not even going to delve in to how you perceived the use of the term "fedora" as a personal attack, not to mention me "persecuting" you of all things.

This is like having a jehova's whitness come to your house. You hear about it a lot in bad jokes, but never think it will happen to you.


But here, I'll bite, you need the attention.

_Christianity does promote a personal relationship with the divine_, it is practically the entirety of what the experience is. You go to church, you learn that. You go to youth group, you learn that. In the vast majority of the cases the bible is highly under-emphasized and just used as a different form of Aesop's Fables and other times used tangentially as a common-sense rulebook. The personal relationship is the keystone to the entire experience.

Of course I am generalizing, christianity has the same problem metal does with constant "subgenres." Maybe there are a few that are how you think they are, as misguided and simpleminded and easy to understand as your army constantly insists. I sure as hell have never met any but there are literally hundreds if not thousands of denominations of christians. Statistics will tell you that some have to be nutjobs as they are human and humans tend to be nuts.

You have this very smug idea of who is supposedly opposite to you, but if you deny their main belief mechanic is not there so vehemently that means that you have _no idea_ who you are fighting against. Hell, I'm not even a christian, but I at least got my info from the source instead of biased info on the internet.

I'll put this is Dark Souls terms for you to help you understand: they are Sunbros and that "personal relationship" is their Sun. They do not go to battle _for_ the sun, they go to battle _with_ the sun and use its lightning to strike down bosses for 20% of their health a pop.


I get your pamphlet and marching orders have a very specific description of what your enemy is, but all I am simply doing is clarifying the situation for you. I wasn't agreeing with the guy, I wasn't re-stating what he did, I sure as hell was not asking to be conscripted into your internet war nor be subjected to your Phil101 textbook tactics.

All I was doing was clarifying the situation for the site in a friendly manner since you really don't "get it." No good deed goes unpunished though when insecurity is involved.



Also "fedoras" are a very visible symbol of the athiest and nerd community (there is a lot of overlap). It is not self-chosen and it does not mean you all wear fedoras, it is a joke term used to describe the predatory -and often hilariously so- nature of your kind. To normal people, the sight of the fedora is like seeing a shark's fin. Though instead of signalling danger, it instead signals the coming of all the fun and happiness being sucked out of the room by a pseudo-intellectual blowhard with a chip on their shoulder.

Not to mention fedoras and trilby's are completely different kinds of hats. You just can't stop, can you?


The reason I applied it to the site is that the site is probably 99% of a very specific ilk. Teenagers, young men, and scruffy old men; usually either currently a disaffected youth, those struggling with being a disaffected youth who is growing up, or has long fell into a perpetual state of being a disaffected youth at heart. Atheism is one of the chosen causes to champion in that demographic, so is metal music.

This site is a hotspot for the metal community, I am not going to deny reality because the truth isn't pretty. I can't deny the evidence when it is constantly whipping me in the face with its hair or busting my eardrums with syncopated open notes. I say this not to insult, but as an explanation of my intent.


All that said, I have no problems with either your anti-religious militia nor the metalheads of this site, I was just correcting your misconception.





Now, here is what is going to happen. You are going to read my post and go home having learned something. I am going to ignore you and this is going to be the end of this stupid fight.

Neg rep me all you want, hate me all you want, I don't care. I only come here to post in my Youtube thread anyways.


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## Jakke (Jun 29, 2014)

LLink2411 said:


> I have never personally had an "atheist" seek me out before to put words in my mouth and go through their (what I am guessing) well-practiced rhetoric. In a dead thread nonetheless. Not even going to delve in to how you perceived the use of the term "fedora" as a personal attack, not to mention me "persecuting" you of all things.



A thread last posted in ten days ago is dead? You have to forgive me, but I do not check SSO every day.
Fedora is obviously a personal attack by implication, as it implies those being identified with the term fedora to have the characteristics of the common neckbeard. 
I did however not say that you were persecuting me, I commented that you implied persecution with your ending of "I know that the fedora is strong in this place (thus implying that you are a poor minority)".



LLink2411 said:


> This is like having a jehova's whitness come to your house. You hear about it a lot in bad jokes, but never think it will happen to you.



I get them constantly, usually when I'm sleeping and/or is hungover.



LLink2411 said:


> But here, I'll bite, you need the attention.



You're such a nice person! Especially with the implication that I am just trolling for your attention. It's also absolutely correct, I desperately require specifically *your* attention, you're just that special my friend.




LLink2411 said:


> _Christianity does promote a personal relationship with the divine_, it is practically the entirety of what the experience is. You go to church, you learn that. You go to youth group, you learn that. In the vast majority of the cases the bible is highly under-emphasized and just used as a different form of Aesop's Fables and other times used tangentially as a common-sense rulebook. The personal relationship is the keystone to the entire experience.



And? Do you believe that they have to take the bible seriously to be considered a religion? That would make you very wrong sir.



LLink2411 said:


> Of course I am generalizing, christianity has the same problem metal does with constant "subgenres."



The nice part is that you can generalize within a religious doctrine, because everyone in a particular religious subgroup usually believes more or less the same thing in regards to it (that is what makes them a religion)



LLink2411 said:


> Maybe there are a few that are how you think they are, as misguided and simpleminded and easy to understand as your army constantly insists.



Weren't you complaining about me putting words in your mouth a few paragraphs up? When have I said that religious people are simpleminded? I believe they are misguided in their belief, but I believe that about people who don't share my political views too.

Also, do I have an army? I wasn't aware of it.



LLink2411 said:


> /but there are literally hundreds if not thousands of denominations of christians.



About 41.000 in the world.



LLink2411 said:


> Statistics will tell you that some have to be nutjobs as they are human and humans tend to be nuts.



Why are you defending christianity from an imagined attack from me?




LLink2411 said:


> You have this very smug idea of who is supposedly opposite to you...



Are you psychic? Who will win the world cup?



LLink2411 said:


> ...but if you deny their main belief mechanic is not there so vehemently that means that you have _no idea_ who you are fighting against. Hell, I'm not even a christian, but I at least got my info from the source instead of biased info on the internet.



Let me be the first one to ask... What?
I have been trying to understand what your first claim is, but I'm drawing a blank... Is that if I deny god, do I now know christianity? Will striking them down only make them stronger (moreso than I can possibly imagine)?

That christianity is a religion is fairly uncontroversial, and not only in "biased sources on the internet". Ask an academic theologian, heck, ask several.




LLink2411 said:


> I'll put this is Dark Souls terms for you to help you understand: they are Sunbros and that "personal relationship" is their Sun. They do not go to battle _for_ the sun, they go to battle _with_ the sun and use its lightning to strike down bosses for 20% of their health a pop.



I'm very sorry to say, but I don't play Dark Souls.. Can you rephrase within the framework of Borderlands 2?



LLink2411 said:


> I get your pamphlet and marching orders have a very specific description of what your enemy is, but all I am simply doing is clarifying the situation for you. I wasn't agreeing with the guy, I wasn't re-stating what he did, I sure as hell was not asking to be conscripted into your internet war nor be subjected to your Phil101 textbook tactics.



Do you have some conspiratorial belief in the "atheist illuminati"? Christians are not my enemies, I merely pointed out that, personal relationship or not, christianity is a religion. A world religion at that.

When did I say that you agree with the douche the thread is about? You seem overly defensive, and you might have imagined me attacking you more than I have. This is a discussion forum, and by posting here, you have consented to have your statement discussed. You're not allowed to be publicly wrong just because you would prefer to be unchallenged.



LLink2411 said:


> All I was doing was clarifying the situation for the site in a friendly manner since you really don't "get it." No good deed goes unpunished though when insecurity is involved.



Again with the persecution. No, you did not clarify the situation, as you are demostrably wrong.




LLink2411 said:


> Also "fedoras" are a very visible symbol of the athiest and nerd community (there is a lot of overlap). It is not self-chosen and it does not mean you all wear fedoras, it is a joke term used to describe the predatory -and often hilariously so- nature of your kind.



My... My.. KIND?

It's not a symbol for the atheist community, but it is rather a malicious stereotype for people trying to put us down by implication. 

Again, how is engaging in discussion on a discussion forum predatory? I like how you constantly try to frame yourself as a poor victim of me. You were asking about my reference to persecution? Well, there you have it.



LLink2411 said:


> To normal people, the sight of the fedora is like seeing a shark's fin. Though instead of signalling danger, it instead signals the coming of all the fun and happiness being sucked out of the room by a pseudo-intellectual blowhard with a chip on their shoulder.



So, I am not normal now? Granted that I'm probably not, at least by virtue of my masculine height of 6"7'. 
Now, what have I said that is pseudointellectual? Was proving you wrong it?




LLink2411 said:


> Not to mention fedoras and trilby's are completely different kinds of hats. You just can't stop, can you?



Yes, yes they are, and it's apparently a difference you are unable to grasp.
Trilby:






Fedora:





A handy guide can be that fedoras are worn by Indiana Jones and bootlegging gangsters, while the trilby were originally a ladies' hat now worn by the type of socially awkward men you have thus far referenced. And by Bruno Mars.









Seriously, .... that guy.





LLink2411 said:


> The reason I applied it to the site is that the site is probably 99% of a very specific ilk. Teenagers, young men, and scruffy old men; usually either currently a disaffected youth, those struggling with being a disaffected youth who is growing up, or has long fell into a perpetual state of being a disaffected youth at heart. Atheism is one of the chosen causes to champion in that demographic, so is metal music.



Oh no! Atheists are socially broken, and your complete lack of evidence to prove this has totally swayed my opinion!



LLink2411 said:


> This site is a hotspot for the metal community, I am not going to deny reality because the truth isn't pretty. I can't deny the evidence when it is constantly whipping me in the face with its hair or busting my eardrums with syncopated open notes. I say this not to insult, but as an explanation of my intent.



I am a metalhead (although not a big fan of djent), so I like it here. You are going to get a lot of metal on a site dedicated to extended range instruments though.



LLink2411 said:


> All that said, I have no problems with either your anti-religious militia nor the metalheads of this site, I was just correcting your misconception.



Is calling christianity a religion anti-religious? Do you not see the contradiction in this?









LLink2411 said:


> Now, here is what is going to happen. You are going to read my post and go home having learned something. I am going to ignore you and this is going to be the end of this stupid fight.



And that would make you wrong yet again.




LLink2411 said:


> Neg rep me all you want, hate me all you want, I don't care. I only come here to post in my Youtube thread anyways.



Oh no, I don't neg rep. Not at all, and besides, I wouldn't want to give you the satisfaction of verifying your martyrdom.


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## Grand Moff Tim (Jun 30, 2014)

Jakke said:


> I'm very sorry to say, but I don't play Dark Souls.. Can you rephrase within the framework of Borderlands 2?




I legit lol'd.


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## RagtimeDandy (Jun 30, 2014)

This thread:


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