# Any interest in an Agile 8-string for Lead players?



## troyguitar (Mar 6, 2009)

Kurt recently made a post asking if anyone would be interested in a Kahler-equipped Intrepid and I think it's a great idea. I've always been interested in an 8 for a tuning like BEADGBEA or ADGCFADG with a tremelo for crazy shred wankery but don't feel like spending over 1500 or 2000 dollars just to try it...

Would you buy an Agile 8-string with the following specs:

Intrepid Standard Bolt-on "short scale"(Perhaps call it Intrepid Lead?)
25.5" - 26.5" scale (preferably 25.5)
Dual Cepheus Passive pickups
Kahler 7328 tremelo
The rest of the specs are up for debate (I would go Mahogany body, maple neck, rosewood fretboard for cost and tonal reasons)

Price would *likely* be under $800. Maybe more like $900 for a neck-through?

What say ye?

EDIT2:

Here are the most recent proposed specs:

Intrepid Lead Standard
Mahogany Body
3-piece Maple bolt on neck with 15&#8221; radius and headstock matching body
Width 2 &#188;&#8221; at the nut
Ebony fretboard with no inlays (or Rosewood if Ebony is not possible)
Scale Length: 25.5&#8221; 24 Jumbo Frets
Cepheus "Alpha" passive pickup in the bridge position and Cepheus "Beta" in the neck position with master volume and tone and 3 way switch. Cavity has been routed large enough to accommodate additional electronics
Kahler USA Hybrid Tremelo system 7328 with Locking Nut! Converts to fixed-bridge with the turn of a screw!
Die-cast Sealed Tuners with 18-1 ratio
Polyurethane Finish
Finish: Gloss White with Gold Hardware

Intrepid Lead Pro
Alder Body w/ Flamed (or Quilted, whichever sells best) Maple Top
5 piece maple/walnut neck-thru body design with headstock matching body
Maple fretboard with no inlays
Neck radius 15". Width 2 &#188;&#8221; at the nut
Scale Length: 25.5&#8221; 24 Jumbo Frets
Cepheus "Alpha" passive pickup in the bridge position and Cepheus "Beta" in the neck position with master volume and tone and 3 way switch. Cavity has been routed large enough to accommodate additional electronics
Kahler USA Hybrid Tremelo system 7328 with Locking Nut! Converts to fixed-bridge with the turn of a screw!
Die-cast Sealed Tuners with 18-1 ratio
Polyurethane Finish
Finish: Trans Blue with Black Hardware


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## darren (Mar 6, 2009)

Agile Intrepid Meedly-MEEEEE

Sounds like a good idea, and if you're interested, you should propose it to Kurt.


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## LordHines42 (Mar 6, 2009)

No but u may want to try a 6 or 7 string. This way you won't limit yourself in speed and playability.


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## Urbane (Mar 6, 2009)

I would buy this guitar right away if this model went into production. I think this is a great idea.


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## AgileLefty (Mar 6, 2009)

LordHines42 said:


> No but u may want to try a 6 or 7 string. This way you won't limit yourself in speed and playability.


 

how is an 8 string "limiting" yourself in speed and playability??

edit - nevermind, i just read the other thread that you've been posting in. i see now that you are just silly


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## Krankguitarist (Mar 6, 2009)

Seems a little premature to put a price on it, especially if you haven't run it past Kurt yet .


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## Våd Hamster (Mar 6, 2009)

Hell yeah! Kahlers are the only trems I like, so that would be a heavensend.


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## troyguitar (Mar 6, 2009)

Krankguitarist said:


> Seems a little premature to put a price on it, especially if you haven't run it past Kurt yet .



A regular standard plus a full retail Kahler is like 875. If you assume he pays retail for the Kahler and 2/3 of retail for the normal Hipshot, then the price is 800. It's a flatmount so there's no complicated routing to make labor costs go up.

Anyway, that's my thought process in arriving at the 800.


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## DrunkenMonkey (Mar 6, 2009)

I got a Halo with a Kahler. Pretty bad-ass. It locks so you can got from hard-tail to tremolo in no time. 

If I didn't just get an Intrepid Pro, I'd be on it like a fat kid in a cake shop.


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## Scali (Mar 6, 2009)

Sounds good, but might I suggest alder rather than mahogany for the body?


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## caughtinamosh (Mar 6, 2009)

+1 for alder

Oh, and I think it's be great for the "regular" 8s to have Kahlers too (as an option). They could be something of a substitute for the Ibanez Fixed Edge bridge - I believe they can be locked.


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## The Echthros (Mar 6, 2009)

+1 to alder. if we're going to give it a go at a shred/lead guitar out with the chug and in with the spank!

oh...would I be correct in thinking the short scale is for adding a higher string instead of a low F#? cus if you are still looking at a low F# then youre looking at major flubber


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## Dusty201087 (Mar 6, 2009)

+9870968976 for alder.

I'd be interested, but while I'd prefer just about any wood over rosewood for a fretboard, it wouldn't kill it for me. And I'd say the scale should be at least 27", tuned B-A. Only thing that would absolutely kill it right off the bat for me is if it only has one pup


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## caughtinamosh (Mar 6, 2009)

One pickup: not likely on a guitar designed with "lead" playing in mind... Unless the sole pickup was on the neck, which would look/be very strange.


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## troyguitar (Mar 6, 2009)

I prefer Alder too. I figured most people would like Mahogany more, maybe not! I'm game for anything really except perhaps basswood.

27" scale is out though. It's too close to the normal Intrepid scale.



il_echthros_777 said:


> oh...would I be correct in thinking the short scale is for adding a higher string instead of a low F#? cus if you are still looking at a low F# then youre looking at major flubber



You are correct!


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## neroceasar (Mar 6, 2009)

HELL YES I WOULD GET ONE! 8 STRING + KAHLER = ASSMAZING!!!
I'd say the best bet would be same specs as the current 8 strings but with 2 pickups. A pro that had passives would be highly desirable also.


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## techjsteele (Mar 6, 2009)

If Kurt made it 25.5" (preferred) or 27" scale I'd be all over that. Though IMO I think it should be all mahogany 8-string with a choice of maple, rosewood, or ebony fretboard. Second choice would be alder body, maple neck-through with the above mentioned fretboard choices. Just my


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## Krankguitarist (Mar 6, 2009)

troyguitar said:


> A regular standard plus a full retail Kahler is like 875. If you assume he pays retail for the Kahler and 2/3 of retail for the normal Hipshot, then the price is 800. It's a flatmount so there's no complicated routing to make labor costs go up.
> 
> Anyway, that's my thought process in arriving at the 800.



I'm not questioning the logic, just pointing out that Kurt's the guy with the final say. A "hopefully" modifier should be added to yer quoted price .


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## tian (Mar 6, 2009)

I was literally eyeing the Intrepid Pros Agile currently offers just yesterday, wishing they made one with a shorter scale and two passive pickups.

I'm all for it.


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## Koshchei (Mar 6, 2009)

Neck through too, please. Big heels are not conducive to incendiary leads.


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## lefty robb (Mar 6, 2009)

Koshchei said:


> Neck through too, please. Big heels are not conducive to incendiary leads.


 

I can tell you right now that the heels on them are just as good as a ibanez AANJ.

How can these guitars be under $800 when the trem alone is like $3-$400?


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## troyguitar (Mar 6, 2009)

Koshchei said:


> Neck through too, please. Big heels are not conducive to incendiary leads.



Tell that to Malmsteen!



lefty robb said:


> How can these guitars be under $800 when the trem alone is like $3-$400?



The Kahler is $259 retail and the fixed Hipshot is $114 retail.


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## possumkiller (Mar 6, 2009)

i definitly think its a great idea. although im not really interested in buying one personally. i just LOVE the low range too much. however i am all for good variety!


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## Gain_Junkie93 (Mar 6, 2009)

Awesome idea I would probably buy one.


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## Urbane (Mar 6, 2009)

with the shorter scale what gauge would be needed for the high A


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## TomAwesome (Mar 6, 2009)

At 25.5", you'll still need an Octave4Plus string for the high A. If you're going with Octave4Plus anyway, you can still get B-A tuning with the existing Intrepids. I know there are other reasons for wanting a shorter scale length, but I just figured I'd throw that out there.


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## Urbane (Mar 6, 2009)

octave4plus is so expensive though


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## Adam (Mar 6, 2009)

TomAwesome said:


> At 25.5", you'll still need an Octave4Plus string for the high A. If you're going with Octave4Plus anyway, you can still get B-A tuning with the existing Intrepids. I know there are other reasons for wanting a shorter scale length, but I just figured I'd throw that out there.



 Who knows, maybe Garry can work something out with Kurt and have his strings come stock on the agiles. It may be a good business move for Garry, I'll drop him a line about it.


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## Adam (Mar 6, 2009)

Urbane said:


> octave4plus is so expensive though



Not when you realize how long they last, the fact they are handmade by Garry, the years spent exerimenting with different combinations of metals to find out witch would hold that tuning with low tension, and the obvious fact that you are not going to find a string anywhere else like this, it's a pretty damn good deal.
I of course, get all of mine for free though.


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## Urbane (Mar 6, 2009)

Yea, i just dont know if id have the funds right now haha


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## Adam (Mar 6, 2009)

Urbane said:


> Yea, i just dont know if id have the funds right now haha



Trust me buy one and it will last for months, it has actually outlived my high e string in some cases. 
Also .005-.015 available string guages FTW!


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## Urbane (Mar 6, 2009)

hmmm...i might consider it


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## Adam (Mar 6, 2009)

il_echthros_777 said:


> +1 to alder. if we're going to give it a go at a shred/lead guitar out with the chug and in with the spank!
> 
> oh...would I be correct in thinking the short scale is for adding a higher string instead of a low F#? cus if you are still looking at a low F# then youre looking at major flubber



I should also note that Garry Goodman makes roundwound strings now too, and has even developed a string for B0(same as the low B on a 5 string bass) for the 26" scale and has the clarity and tension of a bass at 35". His strings for F#1 should have at least double the tension at 25.5" than at 30" using a very light guage of wire.


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## guitarplayerone (Mar 6, 2009)

sounds like a good idea, but I would personally go for a long scale length anyway- I would just shred like normal as well as djent.


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## Adam (Mar 6, 2009)

guitarplayerone said:


> sounds like a good idea, but I would personally go for a long scale length anyway- I would just shred like normal as well as djent.



Read post above


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## Harry (Mar 6, 2009)

25.5 inch scale with high A string would kick ass


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## troyguitar (Mar 6, 2009)

TomAwesome said:


> At 25.5", you'll still need an Octave4Plus string for the high A. If you're going with Octave4Plus anyway, you can still get B-A tuning with the existing Intrepids. I know there are other reasons for wanting a shorter scale length, but I just figured I'd throw that out there.



Yep I know. The main reason is to have the fret spacing smaller to keep big stretches possible/easier and to not be forced to develop new muscle memory. I also just like the tone of high strings at shorter (i.e. standard) scale lengths.


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## lefty robb (Mar 6, 2009)

troyguitar said:


> The Kahler is $259 retail and the fixed Hipshot is $114 retail.


 

sorry I was thinking of the 2328 model, not the hybrid series.


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## troyguitar (Mar 6, 2009)

lefty robb said:


> sorry I was thinking of the 2328 model, not the hybrid series.



Ah sorry I didn't even realize that those exist. $420 for a bridge + locking nut! Yikes...


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## demolisher (Mar 7, 2009)

Neat god damn idea gentle sirs.


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## Fionn (Mar 7, 2009)

man i would sell all my gits (and my body) to fund one of these! am i correct in thinking that you can do a high A at longer scale lengths then? No high A at 26.5" or 27"? Having the extra length is good for the lower strings, 26" would be sick for like drop A or even drop G (27 would be better).

Anyone though of ADGCFADG? That would be perfect its low enough to do the djent and defo high enuff for shred shred shred!


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## Sponge (Mar 7, 2009)

LordHines42 said:


> No but u may want to try a 6 or 7 string. This way you won't limit yourself in speed and playability.



Did you really experience limiting with the 8 string? I've seen you post this in another thread.

*edit*

I'd like to see what players come up with in different tunings. What would a high A feel like to pick or bend, and what about sustain?


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## Panterica (Mar 7, 2009)

YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES


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## 7deadlysins666 (Mar 7, 2009)

Since its a Shred guitar, what about a single coil in the neck position? Like an RG565. That is quite the shred guitar. And since ESP did it so it is possible, no shred guitar is complete without a Reversed headstock.


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## Adam (Mar 7, 2009)

Sponge said:


> Did you really experience limiting with the 8 string? I've seen you post this in another thread.
> 
> *edit*
> 
> I'd like to see what players come up with in different tunings. What would a high A feel like to pick or bend, and what about sustain?



Check out my review on Garrys strings for answers
http://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/1907301/page/1#Post1907301


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## Adam (Mar 7, 2009)

Fionn said:


> man i would sell all my gits (and my body) to fund one of these! am i correct in thinking that you can do a high A at longer scale lengths then? No high A at 26.5" or 27"? Having the extra length is good for the lower strings, 26" would be sick for like drop A or even drop G (27 would be better).
> 
> Anyone though of ADGCFADG? That would be perfect its low enough to do the djent and defo high enuff for shred shred shred!



Yes you are correct, you can now tune to A4 up to a 30" scale, and with string guages varying from .005-.015. Using Garry Goodmans strings.


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## troyguitar (Mar 7, 2009)

7deadlysins666 said:


> Since its a Shred guitar, what about a single coil in the neck position? Like an RG565. That is quite the shred guitar. And since ESP did it so it is possible, no shred guitar is complete without a Reversed headstock.



While that might be cool for a custom, this thread is more about doing something relatively easy for the next production run of Intrepids. Besides I don't think an 8-string single coil exists as of now.


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## 7deadlysins666 (Mar 7, 2009)

troyguitar said:


> While that might be cool for a custom, this thread is more about doing something relatively easy for the next production run of Intrepids. Besides I don't think an 8-string single coil exists as of now.



It doesn't exist, but since rondo makes their own 8 string humbuckers, I don't see how a single coil would cost any more.


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## Rick (Mar 7, 2009)

Seems like a cool idea.

What exactly is an Agile 8 string for lead players?


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## Adam (Mar 7, 2009)

Rick said:


> Seems like a cool idea.
> 
> What exactly is an Agile 8 string for lead players?



Here's one take on it:
shorter sclae(25.5")
Neck pickup
Tuned to B-A(Garrys A4 string) or E-D(with a 22" scale+Garrys strings though)
Thinner neck
Flatter fretboard radius
Bolt on construction(for snappy attack and sustain)
A optional trem system


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## Tommy Van Dyke (Mar 7, 2009)

Adam said:


> Here's one take on it:
> shorter sclae(25.5")
> Neck pickup
> Tuned to B-A(Garrys A4 string) or E-D(with a 22" scale+Garrys strings though)
> ...



OMG a high D? 

Wouldn't a 22" scale make the low e kind of muddy though? 

Still, imagine the crazy high pitched shrieks you could get from those D string harmonics


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## vansinn (Mar 7, 2009)

Sounds very interesting. Since I'd prefer being able to go high up, and also possibly want to be able to drop both low strings independently (Sperzel D-thingy), I'd prefer:

. lighter type of mahogany for body (african?)
. sycamore maple setneck with carbon inserts
. speed/wizard neck, maybe compound profile
. limited compound scale, 25" - 26" (26.5")
. Gary's on top string
. ebony fretboard, flat or low compound radius, no pos markers
. locking tuners, and no locking nut
. neck pickup, preferably a stacked-bucker singlecoil
. locking trem, the Kahler looks fine to me

I know.. a bit above ~$800, but how about a base model with these options on top?


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## J-Twin (Mar 7, 2009)

Hi, I'm new here--actually my first post. I'm seriously wanting an 8 and have been reading up (a lot to read!). 

So, on this issue, I would be a definite maybe if it had a Kahler and ebony or rosewood. I'd also love a PRS-type body (AG-3000)?

Cheers


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## Adam (Mar 7, 2009)

vansinn said:


> Sounds very interesting. Since I'd prefer being able to go high up, and also possibly want to be able to drop both low strings independently (Sperzel D-thingy), I'd prefer:
> 
> . lighter type of mahogany for body (african?)
> . sycamore maple setneck with carbon inserts
> ...


Carbon inserts wouldn't be necessary with multi-laminate necks with 8 strings anyway. Plain hard maple is all you need not sycamore maple. A compound scale would drive the price up too much and isn't all that necessary with a 1"-1.5" fan. Agile has never to my knowledge made a stacked single coil, so that would drive the price up even more. Same goes with name brand locking and drop tune tuners. You would be looking at almost $2000, or possibly more.


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## troyguitar (Mar 7, 2009)

vansinn said:


> Sounds very interesting. Since I'd prefer being able to go high up, and also possibly want to be able to drop both low strings independently (Sperzel D-thingy), I'd prefer:
> 
> . lighter type of mahogany for body (african?)
> . sycamore maple setneck with carbon inserts
> ...



That's definitely going to require going to a custom shop, my friend.


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## ugmung (Mar 7, 2009)

troyguitar said:


> That's definitely going to require going to a custom shop, my friend.



yeah, but that would be one hellava guitar though.


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## Shannon (Mar 7, 2009)

If they made 25.5" 8-string, I'd be all over it. Of course, I'd still tune it with a Low F#.
I'd also like to see a 30-32" model for B E A D G B E A (down one octave).


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## larry (Mar 7, 2009)

I would definately like to see it happen.
although, the intrepid shape isn't as ideal to me.
since the interceptor is the 'shredder' of the bunch, 
i say an 8 string interceptor, with kahler trems in both the
pro and standard options would be great!!

fanned frets would be expensive- though it would be
a giant first, since rondomusic would be, to my knowledge,
the first to mass produce a fanned fret guitar...
it would be a nice option for those who want to 
experiment with fanned frets, but don't want to pay
thousands for a custom instrument.

i hope kurt keeps up the innovation and makes the leap.


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## ShadyDavey (Mar 7, 2009)

Koshchei said:


> Neck through too, please. Big heels are not conducive to incendiary leads.



I'd quite fancy an 8 for lead which means neck through would be excellent Not too worried about a trem but a Kahler would be fine...however I am not a massive fan of single coils in the neck position.


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## troyguitar (Mar 7, 2009)

larry said:


> I would definately like to see it happen.
> although, the intrepid shape isn't as ideal to me.
> since the interceptor is the 'shredder' of the bunch,
> i say an 8 string interceptor, with kahler trems in both the
> pro and standard options would be great!!



I agree with that. There is a rumor that an Interceptor-8 might happen, so maybe we could combine that idea with this one.

I'm going to try to get in touch with Kurt and see what he says about all of this. Apparently there is interest for a 25.5" 8-string w/ the Kahler!


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## InCasinoOut (Mar 7, 2009)

Koshchei said:


> Neck through too, please. Big heels are not conducive to incendiary leads.


Isn't part of the reason for an extra high string to minimize horizontal movement on the fretboard? I would imagine that people would rarely be hitting the 24th fret on the high A...

Then again, I'm really not a shredder, and the nice heel on my Interceptor never really mattered to me since I don't play that high.


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## Variant (Mar 7, 2009)

Wait... isn't the whole point of a eight string so one can have a detuned guitar and not lose the high end for leads and clean stuff?


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## troyguitar (Mar 7, 2009)

Variant said:


> Wait... isn't the whole point of a eight string so one can have a detuned guitar and not lose the high end for leads and clean stuff?



The whole point is to play it however you want... I have no desire to tune any lower than A, but I could and would make use of a high G/A string.


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## Hollowway (Mar 8, 2009)

I think I'd be into it. My Intrepid is on the way, so that'll be my first experience with a low F#. But, I'm more meedly meedly than djent, so I'd like to stick with the 25.5 and add the high string. I suspect it will take a lot more getting used to, since for leads I'm pretty much on muscle memory, and I'm really going to have to practice with that high A if I'm ever going to incorporate it into everyday playing. Of course, at SOME POINT, I know I'm going to have to either stop buying guitars or open an actual guitar store. I NEED AN INTERVENTION!!!


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## GorillaSalsa (Mar 8, 2009)

Any word on if this is happening? The only 8-string I'd be interested in from rondo would be one with two non-emg humbuckers and an ebony fretboard. Some of us want to tune to BEADGBEA.


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## vansinn (Mar 8, 2009)

Adam said:


> Carbon inserts wouldn't be necessary with multi-laminate necks with 8 strings anyway. Plain hard maple is all you need not sycamore maple. A compound scale would drive the price up too much and isn't all that necessary with a 1"-1.5" fan. Agile has never to my knowledge made a stacked single coil, so that would drive the price up even more. Same goes with name brand locking and drop tune tuners. You would be looking at almost $2000, or possibly more.



Yeah, I realize I made a major boo with those specs in this thread. My darkest apols..
What I meant was some of those might be had as options
I'd post-fit the Sperzels myself as-needed, unless it could be had as a custom add-on when ordering.
IIRC, I once asked them about compound scale/fanned, and was told they don't do such.

Having re-read Adams review on Gary's strings, and paid the site another visit, it might seem a fanned design isn't as needed as I thought, very nice, thanks Adam.

I do think avout how to get a good low B (and even more a drop A) with a 25.5" scale. Anyone else considering a 26" as a compromize for both low end and that A4?

I also question my own 'design skills' when thinking about drop tuners alongside a Kahler. I mentioned the Kahler because it was already referred in this thread.


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## troyguitar (Mar 9, 2009)

I've emailed Kurt to see if we can do this. I've initially proposed a Standard and a Pro model with the following specs:

Intrepid Lead Standard
Mahogany Body
3-piece Maple bolt on neck with 15 radius and headstock matching body
Width 2 ¼ at the nut
Ebony fretboard with no inlays (or Rosewood if Ebony is not possible)
Scale Length: 25.5 24 Jumbo Frets
Cepheus "Alpha" passive pickup in the bridge position and Cepheus "Beta" in the neck position with master volume and tone and 3 way switch. Cavity has been routed large enough to accommodate additional electronics
Kahler USA Hybrid Tremelo system 7328 with Locking Nut! Converts to fixed-bridge with the turn of a screw!
Die-cast Sealed Tuners with 18-1 ratio
Polyurethane Finish
Finish: Gloss White with Gold Hardware

Intrepid Lead Pro
Alder Body w/ Flamed (or Quilted, whichever sells best) Maple Top
5 piece maple/walnut neck-thru body design with headstock matching body
Maple fretboard with no inlays
Neck radius 15". Width 2 ¼ at the nut
Scale Length: 25.5 24 Jumbo Frets
Cepheus "Alpha" passive pickup in the bridge position and Cepheus "Beta" in the neck position with master volume and tone and 3 way switch. Cavity has been routed large enough to accommodate additional electronics
Kahler USA Hybrid Tremelo system 7328 with Locking Nut! Converts to fixed-bridge with the turn of a screw!
Die-cast Sealed Tuners with 18-1 ratio
Polyurethane Finish
Finish: Trans Blue with Black Hardware

I've also edited the first post to reflect this.


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## Urbane (Mar 9, 2009)

Really liking those specs although the finish isnt really my style if it came out looking good i might not mind it everything else is looking really nice


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## GorillaSalsa (Mar 9, 2009)

troyguitar said:


> I've emailed Kurt to see if we can do this. I've initially proposed a Standard and a Pro model with the following specs:
> 
> Intrepid Lead Standard
> Mahogany Body
> ...



Oh my sweet fucking lord, would I buy this. I would overpay for this. I'd like to replace the gold with black hardware, but maybe not, who cares, these specs are beautiful. 

Kurt, you better do this.


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## Scali (Mar 10, 2009)

How about a 5-way switch system, so there will be some split humbucker sounds? That should sorta satisfy the people wanting a single-coil.
Or alternatively, a push-pull volume/tone knob to switch between full humbucker and split sounds.


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## TomAwesome (Mar 10, 2009)

Scali said:


> How about a 5-way switch system, so there will be some split humbucker sounds? That should sorta satisfy the people wanting a single-coil.
> Or alternatively, a push-pull volume/tone knob to switch between full humbucker and split sounds.



Those seem more like aftermarket mods that could be easily done by anyone who wants them.


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## troyguitar (Mar 10, 2009)

Yeah I'm with Tom on that one, though I would probably try out the push-pull idea myself if I got one.


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## Scali (Mar 10, 2009)

TomAwesome said:


> Those seem more like aftermarket mods that could be easily done by anyone who wants them.


 
Only if the humbuckers have 4-conductor wiring.
Does anyone know if these humbuckers do?
I know that Gibson doesn't have it, so you can't coil-tap a Gibson unless you replace the pickups. Which is really annoying. Gibson's aftermarket pickups do have 4-conductor wiring.
So yea, at the very least I'd make it a point to have the humbuckers with 4-conductor wiring, so we won't have to replace the pickups right away.
And if it has that wiring anyway, it's little extra work to wire it on a 5-way super-switch (Ibanez style) rather than a 3-way switch, so I don't really see why it can't come stock.


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## Adam (Mar 10, 2009)

Scali said:


> Only if the humbuckers have 4-conductor wiring.
> Does anyone know if these humbuckers do?
> I know that Gibson doesn't have it, so you can't coil-tap a Gibson unless you replace the pickups. Which is really annoying. Gibson's aftermarket pickups do have 4-conductor wiring.
> So yea, at the very least I'd make it a point to have the humbuckers with 4-conductor wiring, so we won't have to replace the pickups right away.
> And if it has that wiring anyway, it's little extra work to wire it on a 5-way super-switch (Ibanez style) rather than a 3-way switch, so I don't really see why it can't come stock.



They do have 4 conductor wiring, and a regular strat style 5-way would be sufficient.
http://www.rondomusic.com/cepheusalpha.html


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## RenegadeDave (Mar 10, 2009)

troyguitar said:


> Kurt recently made a post asking if anyone would be interested in a Kahler-equipped Intrepid and I think it's a great idea. I've always been interested in an 8 for a tuning like BEADGBEA or ADGCFADG with a tremelo for crazy shred wankery but don't feel like spending over 1500 or 2000 dollars just to try it...
> 
> Would you buy an Agile 8-string with the following specs:
> 
> ...



I'd buy a 7 string w/ a kahler and locking nut with the specs you've mentioned.


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## Scali (Mar 10, 2009)

Adam said:


> and a regular strat style 5-way would be sufficient.


 
I don't think it will?
A super-switch will allow you to tap coils in certain positions, or wire them in parallel etc.
Afaik, a Strat switch only has 3 inputs, whether it's 3-way or 5-way. The 5-way just has the two extra in-between positions to connect the middle pickup with one of the outer pickups.
I don't see how that would work for 4 coils rather than 3.


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## Adam (Mar 10, 2009)

Scali said:


> I don't think it will?
> A super-switch will allow you to tap coils in certain positions, or wire them in parallel etc.
> Afaik, a Strat switch only has 3 inputs, whether it's 3-way or 5-way. The 5-way just has the two extra in-between positions to connect the middle pickup with one of the outer pickups.
> I don't see how that would work for 4 coils rather than 3.



It works for their H-H strats, so I assumed they would work for this.


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## Scali (Mar 10, 2009)

Adam said:


> It works for their H-H strats, so I assumed they would work for this.


 
Are you sure they're not the super-switch type?
I'd like to know how they wired up their H-H.
The way Ibanez does it on the RG and S series is just great.


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## Adam (Mar 10, 2009)

Scali said:


> Are you sure they're not the super-switch type?
> I'd like to know how they wired up their H-H.
> The way Ibanez does it on the RG and S series is just great.



They may actually use a super switch, does this look like the one?
http://i3.iofferphoto.com/img/item/794/089/81/fender5.jpg


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## E Lucevan Le Stelle (Mar 19, 2009)

I'd say the REAL way to go would be fanned frets.

If Kurt could manage it, having the first (and only) production multiscale 8 would be massive... I'd get two!

It would also allow tuning both high and low (25.5 to 28.625 would be ideal, and would provide the possibility for both a high A and low F# tuning), which would sort you meedly-meedly-mee guys out... 

No need to compromise and choose one tuning or the other.


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## Qucifer (Mar 19, 2009)

E Lucevan Le Stelle said:


> I'd say the REAL way to go would be fanned frets.
> 
> If Kurt could manage it, having the first (and only) production multiscale 8 would be massive... I'd get two!
> 
> ...



x100. I'd _definitely_ buy two.


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## Cancer (Mar 19, 2009)

The scale length on this should be **AT LEAST** 26.5, if not 27". See the Loomis for details.


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## eegor (Mar 19, 2009)

The fanned fret idea is great. I would sell both my Intrepids just to have one of those if they became a reality.


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## TomAwesome (Mar 19, 2009)

Cancer said:


> The scale length on this should be **AT LEAST** 26.5, if not 27". See the Loomis for details.



Why? If it has a baritone scale, it's not too much different from the existing Intrepids.

And yeah, a 25.5" - 28.625" fan would tempt me quite a bit as well. I'm not sure how feasible it would be on this kind of guitar, though (by that I mean a budget Korean guitar).


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## FlamesOfDestiny (Mar 19, 2009)

I would definitely buy one and maybe two if Kurt can get a multiscale 8.


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## Justin Bailey (Mar 19, 2009)

yeah if it's fanned, I'd be all over this beast. But I somehow doubt that'd happen.


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## eegor (Mar 19, 2009)

Yeah, the future of that idea is not very bright. Even if it did happen it would hike up the price at least a few hundred dollars, so a lot of people still wouldn't be able to get one.


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## Scali (Mar 19, 2009)

I rather like the idea of a guitar tuned BEADGBEA (7-string + high A), which wouldn't require a long scale or fanning, and would be very meedly-meedly-worthy, I think.


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## Justin Bailey (Mar 19, 2009)

eegor said:


> Yeah, the future of that idea is not very bright. Even if it did happen it would hike up the price at least a few hundred dollars, so a lot of people still wouldn't be able to get one.



if we keep this beast simple we might be able to do it.


here's a quick idea:


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## eegor (Mar 19, 2009)

Let's at least keep the headstock.

And we should keep it to a single EMG in the bridge to keep costs down.


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## Scali (Mar 19, 2009)

eegor said:


> And we should keep it to a single EMG in the bridge to keep costs down.


 
I think most lead players will find a neck pickup very important.
And probably don't care about EMG. Passive is good enough, and cheaper.


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## FlamesOfDestiny (Mar 19, 2009)

Scali said:


> I think most lead players will find a neck pickup very important.
> And probably don't care about EMG. Passive is good enough, and cheaper.



+1


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## eegor (Mar 19, 2009)

Scali said:


> I think most lead players will find a neck pickup very important.
> And probably don't care about EMG. Passive is good enough, and cheaper.



Yes, but if this is going to be a fanned fret model, Kurt would have to make new pickups with slanted design, something that would cost more, and two of those would start to get really expensive. The EMG is something that doesn't require any alteration if you put it in at an angle, but two would get a little expensive. Combine that with the cost of actually pulling off the ff design of the guitar, and it starts getting a little high for most peoples' tastes. If we're keeping this guitar inexpensive, then I would think to keep it as simple as possible to allow people to make their own changes.


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## Justin Bailey (Mar 19, 2009)

eegor said:


> Yes, but if this is going to be a fanned fret model, Kurt would have to make new pickups with slanted design, something that would cost more, and two of those would start to get really expensive. The EMG is something that doesn't require any alteration if you put it in at an angle, but two would get a little expensive. Combine that with the cost of actually pulling off the ff design of the guitar, and it starts getting a little high for most peoples' tastes. If we're keeping this guitar inexpensive, then I would think to keep it as simple as possible to allow people to make their own changes.



exactly


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## Scali (Mar 19, 2009)

Ah right... I guess it's too difficult to discuss pickups when specs like fanned frets and such aren't even decided.
I personally don't even want fanned frets.
In fact, take the Dual Cepheus model, slap a Kahler on there, and I'd be pretty happy already. A slightly shorter scale neck would mean even more win.
And alder wings.


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## eegor (Mar 19, 2009)

I have pretty much the same thoughts. I absolutely hate EMG's and would much rather have passives, but my thoughts regarding their use in the ff model were based solely on cost.


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## djohns74 (Mar 19, 2009)

I thought I've heard previously that Kurt isn't able to offer fanned fret guitars, but it's possible that was just for custom orders, I'm not sure.

If there's interest, I'm willing to work with the group to mock up some fanned fret ideas though.


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## TomAwesome (Mar 19, 2009)

There's also the matter of the bridge. I guess individual saddles would be an option, but I dunno. He'd probably end up having to design and manufacture something. Also, if he were to go with a fanned fret design, and if this is supposed to be built around the idea of a high A, wouldn't something like a 23"-26.5" fan be more appropriate than 25.5"-28.625"? I'd love to have the latter myself, but that would be for use with two extra low strings. For a low B and high A, I think I'd much rather have something like the former.


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## Scali (Mar 19, 2009)

Isn't it pretty much impossible to put a tremolo on a fanned guitar anyway?
And wasn't it pretty much decided that this guitar would have a trem?
I mean, that seemed to be in the opening post. I guess trem and dual pickups are the main features that make this a 'lead' guitar as opposed to the regular Intrepid which is more of a 'rhythm' guitar.


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## eegor (Mar 19, 2009)

The only trem option I can think of is the Kahler ff 8-string bridge, which iirc is only available via custom order, which would make the price skyrocket. Individual saddles would be the only way to go.

As far as scale length goes, I would personally rather have it at 25"-28.625" so that everyone who wants it can have it, whether they want a high A string or low F#. And if that scale length is a little extreme for a low B, then at least do 25"-27", thus making the fan less extreme and having a decent tension for lower tunings.


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## E Lucevan Le Stelle (Mar 19, 2009)

eegor said:


> The only trem option I can think of is the Kahler ff 8-string bridge, which iirc is only available via custom order, which would make the price skyrocket. Individual saddles would be the only way to go.
> 
> As far as scale length goes, I would personally rather have it at 25"-28.625" so that everyone who wants it can have it, whether they want a high A string or low F#. And if that scale length is a little extreme for a low B, then at least do 25"-27", thus making the fan less extreme and having a decent tension for lower tunings.



That's the reason I was thinking that scale length - so that (with the Goodman strings probably) it would handle both a high and low tuning in the same guitar. A mass production fanned fret guitar would be a first - noone else does it - and I'm sure would do well, as the reason I didn't get on with my Intrepid (and sold it) was scale length issues - it just wasn't a great guitar for much except the usual "djent" kind of thing which isn't much of what I play. Fun, yes - but I don't really need a guitar for it when I already have the Death Warrior.


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## daemon barbeque (Mar 19, 2009)

The Multi-scale solution is great!
If there would be only one option about the scale and perpendicular fret position ,it won't be too hard to keep it cheap.

2 PUs is a must tho. I hate to use neck PUs ,but many people need it.So it could be an option.

Single bridges is a good possibility ,but it costs more. So an engineered angled bridge can do miracles on the price side.

Great project ,hope it comes out well!


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## eegor (Mar 19, 2009)

The thing with the 2 pickups is the cost. Considering the circumstances, I'm not sure Kurt would be able to keep the cost down enough if we tack on too many options like this.


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## Hollowway (Mar 19, 2009)

I'm definitely going to vote for keeping the scale length at 25.5". Fanned frets are cool, but by 25.5" 7 strings with low B are totally fine. If it's larger, I may as well just put a high A on my Intrepid and call it a day. I'd be happy with 8 strings, standard scale length, B-A tuning. Then I've got my 28.625" 8 string with F#-E. That's livin'. L -I -V -I -N.


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## daemon barbeque (Mar 19, 2009)

eegor said:


> The thing with the 2 pickups is the cost. Considering the circumstances, I'm not sure Kurt would be able to keep the cost down enough if we tack on too many options like this.



That's why I was thinking about not optional scalelength ,but optional Neck PU.
Curt will know how many lead players prefer Neck PUs. he won't build a guitar with no future to sell!


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## eegor (Mar 20, 2009)

You have a valid point, sir. I think we separate these ideas into both a standard-length 8 and a fanned fret 8 as to make everyone happy, or at least to keep the controversy to a minimum.


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## vansinn (Mar 20, 2009)

I see the discussion is still on about number of pickups, fanned frets or not, and trem..
Earlier I wrote my take, which quite rightfully was demed too fancy for an affordable axe.

For Kurt to produce such a shredders dream at an affordable price, it'll have to speak to a decent number of players, else sales won't be enough to justify the development efforts.

Many in here are into elaborate ideas like fanned frets, but honestly, most other players don't see what it's good for, and they too look at the website.
We know some will want to downtune, while some/many of us may want that high A.

If an aggressive fan is chosen, many/most players will disregard it.
Further, such a fan will demand custom pickups and a trem designed for it.
I also think not too many will like a fanned scale going as short as 24". I believe many can accept a Gibson 24.75" scale, but not any shorter.

I'm very unsure about the nut. I'd want to retrofit drop tuners on the two low strings, which of course won't work with a locking nut.
(personally, I don't do dives nor pulls, just use the trem as a 'dipper', i.e. the opposite of bending strings, so I feel a graphite nut should work with a Kahler used this way.)
Maybe the type of nut could be made optional..?

Based on the above, I think most all on this instrument should be fixed items, for the sake of being able to produce the affordable 8-string shred axe, which started this thread.
It should be fixed at two pickups and an agreed-upon equal scale or moderate fanning.

Therefore, I suggest a 25" - 26" fan, laid out with a minimum fanning at the body.
This will enable using stock pickups, and, as far as I can tell, a standard Kahler should be able to accomodate such a limited fan. I just beg that a locking Kahler is chosen.
A fixed bridge version will have no problems with this scheme.

For players not used to fanned frets, it won't look too weird, will be an easy adoption, and the limited fanning could be marketed as allowing better downtuning, low-end action and intonation, plus the ability to tune somewhat up with standard strings.
Those of us who desire that A4 can choose Garry's strings.

The only optionals should be:
. Two or three types of fretboard: Maple, Ebony, Rosewood (just my suggestions).
. Fixed bridge or Kahler (locking)
. Locking nut or graphite
. Color schemes


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## Scali (Mar 20, 2009)

In my opinion, rosewood is the worst option for shredders. I'd be fine with only ebony and maple options, I don't really care which... although I prefer the look of ebony.


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## CaptainD00M (Mar 20, 2009)

Yes ive been wanting an acessibly priced 8 with a high A or G for some time now... PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE...


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## plyta (Mar 20, 2009)

Folks don't get carried away 

Fanned fret option was out of the question while designing initial Intrepid, because Rondo would have to get Novax license:
Novax Guitars: Licensing the Fanned-Fret Design


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## J-Twin (Mar 20, 2009)

vansinn said:


> ...I'd want to retrofit drop tuners on the two low strings, which of course won't work with a locking nut....I feel a graphite nut should work with a Kahler used this way. Maybe the type of nut could be made optional..?



I'm in the same boat, but inexperienced in these matters. I'm wanting to try Kahler w/ graphite nut & locking tuners. 

Vansinn, you make some very good suggestions, IMO.


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## CaptainD00M (Mar 20, 2009)

Thats lame... how can someone patent something like a fret boad design? really, i mean would that not mean that a 22 fret 24.3/4 inch neck with a gibbo 59 profile then be subject to gibbo lic laws or something?

Im no expert on patent law mind, but im struggeling to see how Ralph Novax could sew up the market... how then did Ormsby make the multi scale 6 and sevens for that guy who is only referd to as SAXON on the website.


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## NDG (Mar 20, 2009)

plyta said:


> Folks don't get carried away
> 
> Fanned fret option was out of the question while designing initial Intrepid, because Rondo would have to get Novax license:
> Novax Guitars: Licensing the Fanned-Fret Design



Hmm that's confusing since the FAQ states:



> Do I need to pay a licensing fee to build a Fanned-Fret instrument?
> 
> No.


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## MF_Kitten (Mar 20, 2009)

the novax fanned frets patent only covers the method of making fanned frets and stuff, not the actual technology of having more than one scale on the instrument.

plus, his patent ran out a couple years back, didn&#180;t it?

as long as you don&#180;t call it "fanned frets", but rather "multiscale" or something like that, and don&#180;t use, or don&#180;t admit to use, novax&#180;s calculation methods for making the fanned frets, then you should be fine. it&#180;s not his invention, and he doesn&#180;t own the patent for the basic concept itself.


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## NDG (Mar 20, 2009)

wiki:



> In 1989 Ralph Novak patented an arrangement of frets he calls &#8220;fanned frets,&#8221; denoting "a series of straight frets aligned in a non-parallel pattern," and "each of said frets extending along a straight line" and "with said plurality of strings substantially converging to a point." *This patent has expired.* Novak also has a copyright on the use of the term &#8220;fanned frets.&#8221; (Patent #4,852,450, Novak)


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## plyta (Mar 20, 2009)

Hm, maybe it's expired after all, I can't tell 

Anyways, that license does not concern building fanned fret instruments, it concerns selling 'em in USA, Ormsby is Aussie and Blackmachine is British (don't know other fanned fret builds).

Even if there are no legitiment issues, slotting fanned fretboard requires a special slotting machine or slotting 'em manualy. Either way it's a noticeable bump in price, ask Kurt about it.


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## MF_Kitten (Mar 20, 2009)

again, from the wiki: In 1989 Ralph Novak patented an arrangement of frets he calls &#8220;fanned frets,&#8221; This patent has expired.

and from his site again: 
-Do I need to pay a licensing fee to build a Fanned-Fret instrument?

-No.

in his FAQ section he even provides this link: Cutting a Fanned-Fret Fretboard


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## vansinn (Mar 20, 2009)

^ I'm not so sure about that. I has been stated elsewhere in here that Novax' patent ran out long ago, and others actually wrote them and was told so.

Even if still valid, someone should challenge such a crap ide of patenting something which was used already in past centuries. Just my .2 euro's..


EDIT: Sorry, hadn't noticed page 12 of this great thread. OMG! a place on the net where manufacturers can be influenced; how great is that!


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## daemon barbeque (Mar 20, 2009)

eegor said:


> You have a valid point, sir. I think we separate these ideas into both a standard-length 8 and a fanned fret 8 as to make everyone happy, or at least to keep the controversy to a minimum.



Yess! i think that's the best way to do it!


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## Justin Bailey (Mar 20, 2009)

yep I'd say the best best is to split this into two guitars. One 8 string with a slightly shorter scale length with neck two pickups and a kahler for lead players and a multiscale 8 as kind of the next part in the evolution of the Agile 8.


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## eegor (Mar 20, 2009)

I think we should wait a while on the multiscale idea, though, because there are already two other designs (other than this guitar) being suggested to Kurt.

Edit: Although it couldn't hurt to start the discussion.


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## ledzep4eva (Mar 21, 2009)

Why does a 'lead' guitar have to have a tremelo? Can't there be a hardtail option?


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## Scali (Mar 21, 2009)

ledzep4eva said:


> Why does a 'lead' guitar have to have a tremelo? Can't there be a hardtail option?


 
Because Agile already has a hardtail 8-string?


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## TomAwesome (Mar 21, 2009)

Scali said:


> Because Agile already has a hardtail 8-string?



It also has a 28.625" scale. The point of a "lead" 8-string is, at least in this case, the inclusion of an extra high string instead of a low string. A tremolo would add to the lead thing, but the scale is the important factor here.


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## Scali (Mar 21, 2009)

TomAwesome said:


> It also has a 28.625" scale. The point of a "lead" 8-string is, at least in this case, the inclusion of an extra high string instead of a low string. A tremolo would add to the lead thing, but the scale is the important factor here.


 
But that's just the thing.
This guitar is supposed to be aimed at lead players. that's why it has a shorter scale. As you say, it adds to the lead thing.
I'm quite sure that most lead players would prefer a tremolo, or at least wouldn't be bothered if the guitar has a trem, even though they may not use it).
As such, I think a tremolo should be on this guitar... Especially since there already are short scale 8-strings on the market, but afaik there's no mass-produced/affordable 8-string with trem. It would most probably increase sales, because it will aim at this niche in the market.

If people think the 28.625" scale is too long, perhaps the regular Intrepid should be adjusted to a slightly shorter scale... Or perhaps make the standard one scale, and the pro another?


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## cyril v (Mar 24, 2009)

Scali said:


> But that's just the thing.
> This guitar is supposed to be aimed at lead players. that's why it has a shorter scale. As you say, it adds to the lead thing.
> I'm quite sure that most lead players would prefer a tremolo, or at least wouldn't be bothered if the guitar has a trem, even though they may not use it).
> As such, I think a tremolo should be on this guitar... Especially since there already are short scale 8-strings on the market, but afaik there's no mass-produced/affordable 8-string with trem. It would most probably increase sales, because it will aim at this niche in the market.
> ...



I'd like to think a 27" interceptor 8-string with a trem would be perfect.


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## CaptainD00M (Mar 25, 2009)

Justin Bailey said:


> yep I'd say the best best is to split this into two guitars. One 8 string with a slightly shorter scale length with neck two pickups and a kahler for lead players and a multiscale 8 as kind of the next part in the evolution of the Agile 8.


 
Sounds like a good idea... to be honest id rather wait around for the multi scale as i think thats going to be more my style. Plus it may give me time to actually afford said device of widdle widdle widdle.


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## cicadasilence (Jul 8, 2009)

I joined this site because I've been looking for an affordable B-A tuned 8 stringer for ages. My search led me here, and so far as I can see, this is only place seriously entertaining the idea. 

Personally, I'd love to see these options:

Graphite nut (I don't really get along with locking nuts)
Two passive pickups (I use my neck pickup 85% of the time, and don't dig EMG tones)
Coil taps, or a single coil option. I only like buckers in the bridge position.
25.5" scale

Here's hoping this takes off, and this instrument becomes a reality.


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## Hollowway (Jul 8, 2009)

cicadasilence said:


> I joined this site because I've been looking for an affordable B-A tuned 8 stringer for ages. My search led me here, and so far as I can see, this is only place seriously entertaining the idea.
> 
> Personally, I'd love to see these options:
> 
> ...



Welcome! You just missed (by 3 months) the first order of these from Rondo. Search the forums and you'll see some info about them, but basically the first batch will be delivered to those of us that ordered them in the next few weeks. After that, stay tuned because there will likely be a new round of ordering. But for this round there was an option of 25.5 with two passive pickups.
p.s. The easiest way to search the forums would be to look for Lizard Burst, since that seems to be one of the unique/popular finish options for these.


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## ralphy1976 (Jul 8, 2009)

cicadasilence said:


> I joined this site because I've been looking for an affordable B-A tuned 8 stringer for ages. My search led me here, and so far as I can see, this is only place seriously entertaining the idea.
> 
> Personally, I'd love to see these options:
> 
> ...


 
llok here for a list of models

Agile Intrepid Pro 830 Dual Cepheus NAT (Deposit) at HomeOld


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## cicadasilence (Jul 8, 2009)

It's so late/early that I didn't realize I was bumping a fossil thread. 

Thanks for the heads up.


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