# Long & McQuade frustration stories?



## WintermintP (Aug 23, 2018)

Hi.

I'll try and tread carefully here as much as I can but...

(sigh)

Okay. I've seen several rants of Long & McQuade and how frustrating and dodgy they are/were but those were back in the 2015 days so I've been wondering if anything changed in the other cities, but here where I live, has actually worsened over the years.

Let's start off with the first signs of trouble.

I bought like, at least 5 or 6 instruments from them now? And I've bought tons of other stuff from them such as picks, cables, gig bags... you name it, I bought it.

The first problem is that whenever I bought something from them, to start things off, they never provided any perks for being one of the main buyers. Even Guitar Centre in the U.S. at least provides deals, even for first-time customers. The Canadian dollar still sucks and it's bound to worsen even more than 2015 so that's expected. Okay fine.

The second problem is, I'm not one of those customers who swear by the "you just find what you want, you buy it, and leave" mentality. There are so many questions I have about one product alone and I tend to have trouble making a clear decision half the time. And the things that the clerks say... are often misleading. The thing here is, I'm not even a beginner at guitar by any means. I think this is my 11th year playing guitar/bass now?

Third problem. Now we're getting to the bigger problems. Whenever I get a guitar or bass set up, I have really specific needs. So I'll be asking for really obscure tunings like Drop G. One guitar in particular that cost me over $1K (I didn't ask for Drop G with this)... I bought new strings for it for Free Setup Day but the top string just fell off before I could even play. Also, these guys don't know what a drop tuning is. Whenever I ask for a Drop tuning such as, say, Drop A 6-string, for example, which should be A E A D F# B, I get A D G C E A. Aftermath? No compensation whatsoever. Even on the other guitar I had to specifically name down all of the open notes just to get the strings set up correctly, and I was lucky those gauges were really heavy.

Now for what happened recently. I ordered DR DDT bass strings from them last month. When I first called for an update, they said it's on backorder but I'll be able to get it 1 August. 1 August arrives. They're saying they just reached the supplier and said it will take an additional two or three weeks or whatever. I called again just yesterday. The guy said he'll contact the supplier. I get a message today. Now they're telling me they're on backorder again and it'll take an additional two weeks. I end up having to call them and snap back at them and reminding them that it's already been at least six or seven weeks, but their excuse is that they're only going by what the supplier is telling them. Based on my past experiences, I have no clue if I can believe them or not.

So yea, has Long & McQuade gone better or worse in other places in Canada? I'd love to hear how things are like now.

Thanks,
WintermintP


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## Bdtunn (Aug 23, 2018)

At least they stopped wearing those awful pastel shirts and ties. I never wanted to buy a guitAr from a guy in a tie Hahahaha


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## Sogradde (Aug 23, 2018)

Rule #1: Learn to set up your instruments.

Paying someone to set up your guitar to your needs is like paying someone to adjust your car seat to your liking.


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## budda (Aug 23, 2018)

So your "big gripes" are the fact that *most* guitarists and techs don't do downtuning below C, and that you ordered niche strings that aren't a regular stock item?

Seriously?

L&M is fine. The staff are fine. They don't know everything, and if you're asking about things they don't know, then they'll tell you that and you gotta look it up on your own.

As for perks, L&M has sales. L&M has deals. They don't have the deals like GC because we aren't the USA. Period. That's all it is. We don't have the population, and the product doesn't come in way cheaper (shipping in US vs. shipping in Canada). Don't act entitled and just maybe you'd be able to take something home without renting etc.

It doesn't sound to me like the store is the problem here.


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## eightsixboy (Aug 23, 2018)

Honestly I wouldn't let anyone touch any guitar I just bought unless it was myself or a proper tech. You asking for issues getting a shop to do work for you UNLESS you know they have a proper tech.

With the backorder thing that might not even be their fault, sometimes ETA's for things gets shifted from one day to the next etc. Its no different to when ordering an Ibanez, store tells you supplier said shipment due X date, rocks up a month later, then other hurdles etc etc you end up chasing the store waiting for what you ordered. In my experience if you order something be prepared to have delays and the unexpected.


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## Captain Butterscotch (Aug 23, 2018)

Sogradde said:


> Rule #1: Learn to set up your instruments.
> 
> Paying someone to set up your guitar to your needs is like paying someone to adjust your car seat to your liking.




I charge people $15 to change strings. They stand and watch me do it. While I do it they talk about how it's just insane to imagine themselves doing the same thing. Don't be those people, OP.


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## Avedas (Aug 23, 2018)

Never had any issues with the L&Ms in the Vancouver area. I don't typically ask the staff questions as I already know everything about the gear I'm interested in, or I can read a spec sheet that's sitting with the price tag. They threw in cables and picks or whatever for me way back when I made 3 digit purchases from them in the mid-late 00's (last time I ever bought anything there really).

Also, are you saying after 11 years of playing guitar/bass you can't set up your own instruments? This is especially important when you're not using standard tunings. I think this should be beyond obvious.

And finally, for products going into Canada it's always slow as shit regardless of what you're buying or ordering. That's just the nature of the game in Canada. Things take 6-8 weeks to arrive from anywhere. You should know this by now.

L&M is also far more pleasurable to deal with than basically every guitar shop in Tokyo. L&M is great.


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## Splenetic (Aug 23, 2018)

Have no issues with them either. The other day I went with my co-worker to help him pick out his first guitar, an acoustic. 

We went to Steve's first which is a block away from our workplace.... The acoustic section of the store felt downright oppressive hahah....I didn't pay it much attention but at one point my buddy says "Holy shit it's so fucking quiet in here, no one is talking, it feels like they're listening to us and judging silently i wanna get the fuck outta here" hahah, it made him uncomfortable to a point he didn't even wanna try the guitars..... and the funny thing is, he was kinda right. The FOUR sales dudes were dead silent lined up along the counter just not saying anything, it was bizarre.

We then went to L&M on Bloor near Ossington, and the atmosphere was 10 times better. The sales dudes were doing their own thing and talking amongst each other, didn't pay attention to us until we asked for one of them to help us out. After that, the older gentleman, Matthew, helped my buddy out in the most pro manner a salesman can. He didn't shill, gave solid advice, no complaints. 

Plus it was thanks to their once per year clearout sale that I started playing seven string axes in the first place.


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## Eptaceros (Aug 24, 2018)

never been there, but this thread gives me the idea they're a top notch establishment


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## MaxOfMetal (Aug 24, 2018)

Eptaceros said:


> never been there, but this thread gives me the idea they're a top notch establishment



I've been to an L&M once when visiting some family. Not sure which one, somewhere in Southern-ish Ontario. 

Reminded me a lot of Sam Ash over here.


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## WintermintP (Aug 24, 2018)

Just a little bit of context before any more of you get at me for "not learning how to set up my instruments" because I forgot to bring that up and I knew that was going to be an issue.

I *did* learn how to set up my own instruments. I didn't know how to do it *back then*. Besides, when that incident happened was like, a long while ago, so... yea...

That means you, @Sogradde... =.=

@Avedas Really now? This is the *first* time I had to wait more than six weeks to get a pack of strings.

Again, though, just so everyone's clear, I didn't know how to set up instruments *back then*. I know how to do it now so that's not really an issue anymore.

The main point here, was that there have been more than a small number of incidents that's been causing me to really grit my teeth against L&M.

WintermintP


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## diagrammatiks (Aug 24, 2018)

How can you possibly expect a guitar store employee to know everything about every guitar. 
They aren’t some nerd living at home spending all day on the internet. They actually have to go to work and shit.


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## WintermintP (Aug 24, 2018)

diagrammatiks said:


> How can you possibly expect a guitar store employee to know everything about every guitar.
> They aren’t some nerd living at home spending all day on the internet. They actually have to go to work and shit.



Well I don't expect them to know everything per se. I just expect them to be more honest and less misleading. If they don't really know I'll look for other sources to find my information.



budda said:


> So your "big gripes" are the fact that *most* guitarists and techs don't do downtuning below C, and that you ordered niche strings that aren't a regular stock item?
> 
> Seriously?
> 
> ...



I'm not trying to say I'm entitled. It's just that there have been a bunch of instances where they were really frustrating to deal with.

First of all, even though I almost always downtune below C, I can still find the gauges I need usually. Even if they didn't have the gauges I needed, it usually didn't take long for them to fetch me the right gauges. This is the *first* time it's taking this long, as I said earlier.

Second, that's not the "big gripe" I'm talking about. The real problem is that there have been more than a handful of frustrating experiences with those guys. Heck, there have even been numerous occasions where they tried to talk their way out of pricematching and so on and so forth. Also, there were other occasions when I tried to buy a specific item they tried to sell me a lesser brand instead (saying it's a better brand when it's not) just because they don't carry the brand I want (that's what made me lose faith regarding the DR DDTs in the first place).

WintermintP


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## Avedas (Aug 24, 2018)

WintermintP said:


> @Avedas Really now? This is the *first* time I had to wait more than six weeks to get a pack of strings.


Yeah man Canada border guards are dicks and will hold basically anything in customs for weeks, or your package will sit on a truck and go across the continent a couple times before getting to your city.


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## WintermintP (Aug 24, 2018)

Avedas said:


> Yeah man Canada border guards are dicks and will hold basically anything in customs for weeks, or your package will sit on a truck and go across the continent a couple times before getting to your city.



Well in this case I know exactly what's going on. The supplier won't ship anything until the crate's completely filled so that the shipping wouldn't be as expensive. But still, this is the first time it's taking this long...

Okay, fine, I was a little too worked up over the matter, but I just had to rant because this has been really frustrating (as this never happened before; and maybe in case this happens again I'll plan better) and as I said earlier, there already have been other instances that caused me to lose faith in those guys.

(sigh) Sorry for the rant. I just had too many frustrating experiences with those guys so I just had to vent it out.

Just so we're on the same page, it's not that I was trying to imply that I'm entitled or anything. It's just that there have been so many cases where I either clearly knew what I wanted but ended up having to get something else instead, or I needed help figuring stuff out but the staff were saying some misleading things. And again, it's not that I expect them to know everything, but I just at least didn't want to be misled.

WintermintP


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## Avedas (Aug 24, 2018)

WintermintP said:


> The supplier won't ship anything until the crate's completely filled so that the shipping wouldn't be as expensive.


Yeah, exactly. They only have to do stuff like that because shipping to Canada is an expensive pain in the ass. Sad harsh realities of living up north.


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## WintermintP (Aug 24, 2018)

Welp... okay, looks like I learned my lesson today then... :'<

WintermintP


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## budda (Aug 24, 2018)

WintermintP said:


> I'm not trying to say I'm entitled. It's just that there have been a bunch of instances where they were really frustrating to deal with.
> 
> First of all, even though I almost always downtune below C, I can still find the gauges I need usually. Even if they didn't have the gauges I needed, it usually didn't take long for them to fetch me the right gauges. This is the *first* time it's taking this long, as I said earlier.
> 
> ...



Ok so it's the first time there's been a delay with strings... that's a pretty good track record for 11 years no?

Did they "try and talk their way out of price matching" or did you bring in a sale price and they said they couldn't match it? That's every store by the way, from groceries to guitars. 

What exactly was the item you wanted, and the "lesser brand"?. I'm curious to know. It makes total sense that as an employee of a retail company, they tried to sell you a similar product that probably fits your needs because... they are there to sell stuff. As a company, it's better to sell a similar product than lose the sale . Why didn't you check online to see if they have the brand you want, before spending your time going to the store? Why not cover due diligence on your end when the information is available without leaving your house?

It still sounds like you didn't do your research in situations where you should have.

If it's that frustrating then go to the PA shop or Bellones.


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## Sogradde (Aug 24, 2018)

WintermintP said:


> That means you, @Sogradde... =.=


Wasn't trying to shit on you mate. I'm just saying, do your own research and make your own setups. Don't expect the people at guitar stores to know their stuff. I know it's disheartening but from my experience, most of them are dadrockers or teens who play acoustics to pick up chicks. There is a massive difference between "being a guitar player" and "being knowledgeable about guitars".


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## 70Seven (Aug 24, 2018)

If you're one of those customers that give them a hard time, ask for these weird tuning set ups (weird from their point of view), asks a ton of questions and take time making decisions, don't expect to get deals even if you buy regularly. 

All my years shopping at long McQuade the guys that worked there were "classic rock" guys, I didn't expect them to know everything about high gain amps or the latest EMG pickups.. 

The guys at one store started to know me, not by name but I would get a "hey man" when I walked in. They started knowing my string gauges and the kind of music I like. I'd walk in, do a quick walk around, chat a little if one of the guys approached me but was never a "difficult" customer. When I bought my latest guitar with them, I asked for a deal, like no taxes.. guy was hesitant since it wasn't a super expensive guitar(just over 1K). Talked with the manager, and said best he could do was knock off 50$, so basically from 1149$ to a flat 1100$ plus taxes. I said its better than nothing..


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## coupe89 (Aug 24, 2018)

I remember the late 90s the price of gear where I am from was around the price they charge now.


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## erdiablo666 (Aug 24, 2018)

I've always had good experiences with them. Their return policy is phenomenal by the way. 30 days, no questions asked (as long as it wasn't a special order).

Yes, I've waited weeks for strings. It happens. This is why I buy multiple packs at a time. I get GHS 8 string sets for reference. When I buy NYXL singles they're a lot quicker to arrive. 

90% of the time when I special order strings or picks they come in less than a week. The staff are always friendly and knowledgeable. If they don't know something, they'll tell you and then go look it up. Really can't say enough good things.


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## TedEH (Aug 24, 2018)

The only complaint I ever really have about L&M is that some of the salespeople at the one closest to me like to hover around you once they realize you're someone who spends money. The last time I bought an amp head in store, the sales guy suddenly became my best friend every time I've entered the store since - in the sense that he sticks to me like flies on sh*t in hopes that I'll go through him to get my next purchase, given my "expensive tastes".

The Steves in Ottawa on the other hand..... basically only employs opinionated older guys and naive kids. If you want to spend a bajillion dollars on a strat, Steves can help you out, but they're clueless when it comes to anything else. Not only that, but they're kinda stuck up about it. If you walk in with long hair and a black shirt, you get the eye rolls and that look that says "the pointy bullsh*t guitars you want are in the back, don't talk to me until you learn to play real music".

I've heard some wacky/dumb lines in that store:
"If we don't carry it, trust me, you don't need it."
"Nobody would be stupid enough to record anything with EMGs."
I'm sure there's more, but I can't think of them right now.


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## budda (Aug 24, 2018)

Steve's is also known for being a bit of a front, and I won't recommend anyone go to their stores .

L&M staff aren't on commission, so there's nothing to be gained for that employee who follows you around. Have you tried... asking him to stop?


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## erdiablo666 (Aug 24, 2018)

Only complaint I have about Steve's is that they won't order single strings for me. Otherwise they're great. Only shop in town where you can get Schecters too.


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## budda (Aug 24, 2018)

erdiablo666 said:


> Only complaint I have about Steve's is that they won't order single strings for me. Otherwise they're great. Only shop in town where you can get Schecters too.



L&M carries schecter, and they price match. I feel like spaceman and maybe another would have some too?


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## ArtDecade (Aug 24, 2018)

WintermintP said:


> Hi.
> 
> I'll try and tread carefully here as much as I can but...
> 
> ...



Let me dry your eyes, little bear.






Need a hug as well?


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## vortex_infinium (Aug 24, 2018)

Positive story from when I was in college, me and my friends would go to L&M down the road maybe once every other week and play their guitars and amps in a respectful manner. They have some good people, one guy who started to get to know us and knew we weren't buying anything (I was already buying my strings and accessories online by that point) was more than happy to pull from a stand behind the counter their fancy $4000 Gibson and their not-so-expensive but hard to find for the time Ibanez 8 string for us to noodle around on.

That being said they're the Wal Mart of guitars. That's my expectation. I've had employees say they're doing something for me only to disappear. I've had employees charge my credit card, gesture to hand it back to me and as I reach for it throw it down on the counter. Don't expect anything they don't carry normally to get ordered anytime soon and don't expect returns on things they consider special orders that are a dime dozen online but they aren't willing to stock otherwise.

I've had better experiences with the L&M staff than Steves though.


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## erdiablo666 (Aug 24, 2018)

budda said:


> L&M carries schecter, and they price match. I feel like spaceman and maybe another would have some too?



Not the one in Ottawa unfortunately...As far as Spaceman goes, they're mostly used gear. You may find a Schecter but it won't be new.


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## budda (Aug 24, 2018)

erdiablo666 said:


> Not the one in Ottawa unfortunately...As far as Spaceman goes, they're mostly used gear. You may find a Schecter but it won't be new.



Given they are a national chain, i dont see how the ottawa location doesnt carry them.


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## erdiablo666 (Aug 24, 2018)

Something to do with Steve's having exclusive rights...Someone explained it to me once but I forget the details. I know it's weird but trust me, they don't carry Schecters.


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## WintermintP (Aug 24, 2018)

If everything else were to make sense, here's the one detail that doesn't. *WHY* is it that the order reaches the supplier for a little while and *then* it's on backorder *again* when it *already* got there? Are they trying to shift what used to be my order to someone else when I ordered them first?!

@budda Also, London has two L&M stores and I go there often enough to know they don't carry Schecters here either.

WintermintP


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## budda (Aug 24, 2018)

Carry and have in stock are two different things. They carry schecter. They stock mostly fender, gibson and epiphone with the splash of prs se's/s2's, ibanez and whatever else has come through. Guaranteed you can grab your next C1 at l&m though .


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## Splenetic (Aug 24, 2018)

One good thing about Steve's....before I guess, they used to carry Reverend guitars. Sadly I only found out after they stopped carrying them and only had two models left that I'm not feeling. The (extremely passive and casual) search for a Sensei continues...


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## budda (Aug 24, 2018)

Malevolent_Croatian said:


> One good thing about Steve's....before I guess, they used to carry Reverend guitars. Sadly I only found out after they stopped carrying them and only had two models left that I'm not feeling. The (extremely passive and casual) search for a Sensei continues...



Cask music in toronto carries reverend.


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## WintermintP (Aug 24, 2018)

budda said:


> Carry and have in stock are two different things. They carry schecter. They stock mostly fender, gibson and epiphone with the splash of prs se's/s2's, ibanez and whatever else has come through. Guaranteed you can grab your next C1 at l&m though .



Sorry, dude. I play 7-string guitars almost exclusively now. 6-string guitars just aren't the same anymore.

WintermintP


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## buriedoutback (Aug 24, 2018)

I've experienced having to wait weeks and weeks and weeks for a pack of strings. Ended up that a full order was needed before it was shipped. This wasn't L&M.

My local L&M is small, and they never have anything in stock that I want, but they did take back a defective product that I ordered off their website without any hassle, so meh.

I start with 1. Kijiji 2. Axe Music 3. Amazon 4. other sites. (order changes based on new/used/etc).

Like 99% of all the shopping I do, it's done online. Yes, there are limitations to that, but I do a metric shit-ton of research before purchasing, so I have a good idea what I'm ordering.

Sometimes, like with guns, I'll go into a local store and fondle the product (if they have it), then buy it cheaper online.


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## erdiablo666 (Aug 24, 2018)

budda said:


> Carry and have in stock are two different things. They carry schecter. They stock mostly fender, gibson and epiphone with the splash of prs se's/s2's, ibanez and whatever else has come through. Guaranteed you can grab your next C1 at l&m though .


Imma go ask them just for fun then. Here's the thing though: When you're a dealer, you MUST have product on display. I know guys that used to work at Steve's. For example, they're required to have certain models on hand. Ie whatever they happen to be pushing at the time. Doesn't matter if it sells or not. Ibanez requires the same thing. That's business.

Edit: Their website confirms they have Schecter. I'm still gonna ask what the deal is though.


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## Splenetic (Aug 25, 2018)

@budda Excellent, thanks! Never checked Cask out before, but good to know.


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## budda (Aug 25, 2018)

buriedoutback said:


> I've experienced having to wait weeks and weeks and weeks for a pack of strings. Ended up that a full order was needed before it was shipped. This wasn't L&M.
> 
> My local L&M is small, and they never have anything in stock that I want, but they did take back a defective product that I ordered off their website without any hassle, so meh.
> 
> ...



Im gonna say it again - you know l&m price matches non sale prices, right? I had them match amazon when I bought my flashback x4.


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## buriedoutback (Aug 25, 2018)

budda said:


> Im gonna say it again - you know l&m price matches non sale prices, right? I had them match amazon when I bought my flashback x4.


In my case, it's the same people working at the l&m as when the store used to be called something else, and those guys were dicks and refused to price match, so even at the same price, I'll buy elsewhere. Same situation with my gun purchases and other tech purchases. North Bay businesses have poor customer service.


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## budda (Aug 25, 2018)

Im rarely in north bay, but have you tried letting management of these places know?


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## Furtive Glance (Aug 25, 2018)

I've had pretty good experiences with L&M in the past. Really nice salespeople that never even remotely pressured me into anything.

Worst thing that happened was I tried out a Mesa Road King and they didn't take the plastic sleeves off the 6L6s... Mmm, melted plastic. Shut that down right away and let them know. They had it hooked up and everything - it's not that I took it into the amp room from the sales floor.


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## ImNotAhab (Aug 25, 2018)

Sales wise I find them pretty good. Good guys and girls for the most part. In Vancouver at least I have not found the in store techs in general are good for anything outside the fender/gibson realm though. Got a set up done on a seven string and the guy butchered the nut. Worse, after he messed up and did the most embarrassing repair job I've ever seen he starts blaming me! Told me I asked the impossible and guitars are not meant for strings that big (.062 if you are interested) and i should get baritone. I informed him rather that it was in fact a 26.5 scale guitar. He then told me I should by a fan fret and stick to a .056. 

After I went home and prayed to Xenu that his next bowl movement took the form of a hedgehog I had to get new nut and bring it to a different place to install a new one. Thankfully I found a great luthier nearby, I wish I had found her years ago. Had a back and forth bass issue she went above and beyond to fix. Costs more but I no longer have the stress that I used to feel from hit and miss repair people.


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## xCaptainx (Aug 26, 2018)

The backorder 'issue' is dead simple to explain. 

You ordered one set of strings. 

They put it on back order with their supplier. 

Here's the kicker.....they aren't going to ship just a single set of strings from supplier to retailer. It's honestly not worth the shipping costs for a single sale. 

So they put it on back order until an entire shipment can be justified. What constitutes a full shipment? It could be a huge box, it could be a shipping container. Who knows. But the costs of shipping one item will be on par with an entire box and they'd eat up their profit margin if they just shipped a single packet. 

So you're at the mercy of supply and demand. 

If you want to buy pretty stock standard stuff that has a very short life in inventory (because of popularity) then yeah, walk into most shops and expect to see it. Strings, picks, sticks, it's their bread and butter. 

But you've already admitted to alternative tunings, specific string gauges. Perhaps take the niche stuff to online stores that my have a larger inventory, or do bulk orders yourself to save the hassle. 

Either way, your rant spoke more of you then it did of the retailer tbh.


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## MaxOfMetal (Aug 26, 2018)

This has pretty much become a pile-on thread, so I'm shutting it down.


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