# Metal and Homophobia/Sexism



## eleven59 (Jan 11, 2010)

So, this is something I've been seeing more and more being in the metal scene: guys always being "manly men" and making homophobic/sexist comments. 

They'll (almost) always deny being actually homophobic/sexist, but they'll still be extremely disrespectful towards women/gays, and any time they don't like something it's "gay". 

I guess what I'm asking is:

Is ridiculous, over the top, chest-beating manliness a requirement of metal?
Are all/most metalheads actually homophobic/sexist?
Am I the only one that finds this completely ridiculous and pathetic?


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## Hollowman (Jan 11, 2010)

or you can be Steel Panther and making fun of it and the so called lifestyle.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 11, 2010)

Considering you have people members of Vader, Gorgoroth,Morbid Angel, Judas Priest, King's X, Cynic, Otep, etc who are gay I don't think it's that big of a deal.

The whole "gay" word is just a phrase and I don't think homophobia is that rampant in the metal community. Most people don't care. Masculinity is a part of metal, and it always will be and should be, but that doesn't exclude gay men..gay men usually don't want to be a part of it for that reason. I'm a gay man in the metal scene and I've never had an issue with anyone, especially because I'm more than willing to crack someone's skull if I had to. It's not being gay that's frowned upon in metal..it's pretty much being a wimp.


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## eleven59 (Jan 11, 2010)

Hollowman666 said:


> or you can be Steel Panther and making fun of it and the so called lifestyle.



True enough, it just seems like a large number of people take that shit seriously and it's starting to piss me off and make me want to quit the scene.


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## Scar Symmetry (Jan 11, 2010)

Machismo is part of Heavy Metal. Drink beer, play guitar fast and bang your head... these are things straight guys like to do. Saying it's pathetic though... is kinda silly considering it's what the genre is based on. Metal SOUNDS macho, so it's no surprise the guys who like it are too. 

Macho can also be a gay thing in context, hell I'm sure there are gay dudes out there who love drinking beer, playing guitar fast and banging their heads.



DrakkarTyrannis said:


> It's not being gay that's frowned upon in metal..it's pretty much being a wimp.





A gay man that can hold his own gets just as much respect as a straight man that can hold his own. A wimp gets no respect, gay or not.


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## eleven59 (Jan 11, 2010)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Considering you have people members of Vader, Gorgoroth,Morbid Angel, Judas Priest, King's X, Cynic, Otep, etc who are gay I don't think it's that big of a deal.
> 
> The whole "gay" word is just a phrase and I don't think homophobia is that rampant in the metal community. Most people don't care. Masculinity is a part of metal, and it always will be and should be, but that doesn't exclude gay men..gay men usually don't want to be a part of it for that reason. I'm a gay man in the metal scene and I've never had an issue with anyone, especially because I'm more than willing to crack someone's skull if I had to. It's not being gay that's frowned upon in metal..it's pretty much being a wimp.



I knew you'd have some good insight. You make some really good points.


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## eleven59 (Jan 11, 2010)

I guess another thing I'm wondering is: is there a place for open-minded, positive metal without the negativity/hate, and without the "macho". Still heavy music, but more about "big" and "epic" sounds and less about how "tough" it is.


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## S-O (Jan 11, 2010)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Considering you have people members of Vader, Gorgoroth,Morbid Angel, Judas Priest, King's X, Cynic, Otep, etc who are gay I don't think it's that big of a deal.
> 
> The whole "gay" word is just a phrase and I don't think homophobia is that rampant in the metal community. Most people don't care. Masculinity is a part of metal, and it always will be and should be, but that doesn't exclude gay men..gay men usually don't want to be a part of it for that reason. I'm a gay man in the metal scene and I've never had an issue with anyone, especially because I'm more than willing to crack someone's skull if I had to. It's not being gay that's frowned upon in metal..it's pretty much being a wimp.



Wait, who's gay in Cynic?

Gay and masculine are not mutually exclusive. Nor is metal and gay


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## Scar Symmetry (Jan 11, 2010)

eleven59 said:


> I guess another thing I'm wondering is: is there a place for open-minded, positive metal without the negativity/hate, and without the "macho". Still heavy music, but more about "big" and "epic" sounds and less about how "tough" it is.



Yeah absolutely, metal today is more open-minded than it's ever been. Metal is also more brutal than it's ever been, so I hope it never loses that macho side as for me it's the key essence of the genre.


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## PnKnG (Jan 11, 2010)

You should watch this:


It has a part witch talks about the metal and sexuality thing.


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## Fzau (Jan 11, 2010)

Scar Symmetry said:


> Yeah absolutely, metal today is more open-minded than it's ever been. Metal is also more brutal than it's ever been, so I hope it never loses that macho side as for me it's the key essence of the genre.


 
+1


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 11, 2010)

eleven59 said:


> I guess another thing I'm wondering is: is there a place for open-minded, positive metal without the negativity/hate, and without the "macho". Still heavy music, but more about "big" and "epic" sounds and less about how "tough" it is.



Those are the things I like about metal. Aggression and violence and that element of danger is what makes metal good. To take that away would be de-balling it for people who find it "too extreme". Metal is about being extreme and always has been since the early days of the extreme genres..I'd be seriously pissed if it got watered down.


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## Scar Symmetry (Jan 11, 2010)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Those are the things I like about metal. Aggression and violence and that element of danger is what makes metal good. To take that away would be de-balling it for people who find it "too extreme". Metal is about being extreme and always has been since the early days of the extreme genres..I'd be seriously pissed if it got watered down.





Repped.


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## Fzau (Jan 11, 2010)

eleven59 said:


> I guess another thing I'm wondering is: is there a place for open-minded, positive metal without the negativity/hate, and without the "macho". Still heavy music, but more about "big" and "epic" sounds and less about how "tough" it is.


 
Want big and epic sounding metal?

www.myspace.com/tracesmetal here you go


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## Customisbetter (Jan 11, 2010)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> It's not being gay that's frowned upon in metal..it's pretty much being a wimp.



WINNAR


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## Scar Symmetry (Jan 11, 2010)

Fzau said:


> Want big and epic sounding metal?
> 
> www.myspace.com/tracesmetal here you go


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## pink freud (Jan 11, 2010)

Metal isn't really sexist either. If anything, metal is _far_ less sexist than normal rock music. 

Metal will have lyrics about killing and mutilating people in an indiscriminate manner. Rock half the time seems to be a more musical version of rap: Fuck as much pussy as you can while doing drugs.


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## dmguitarist99 (Jan 11, 2010)

Wow, who's gay in Vader,Morbid Angel, and Cynic?
Also I don't have a problem with homosexuals, but if you flaunt it around trying to make it sound like it's the greatest thing in the world. I don't really agree with you.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 11, 2010)

The guitarist and drummer in Cynic, Doc of Vader was gay and it's believed other members are, and the bassist/vocalist of Morbid is "bi". Yes he has a wife but it's well known that he plays for both teams. There are others too and people don't care. It has nothing to do with the music so it's not really a factor. And we can all agree that the people I've mentioned have more than proven themselves in the scene and no one thinks twice about it. Surely you have a few who don't care but so what? That's life. You can write songs about eating people and raping dead children but you run crying because some idiot called you a fag?


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## eleven59 (Jan 11, 2010)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Those are the things I like about metal. Aggression and violence and that element of danger is what makes metal good. To take that away would be de-balling it for people who find it "too extreme". Metal is about being extreme and always has been since the early days of the extreme genres..I'd be seriously pissed if it got watered down.



I'm not saying watering it down musically. I've just never seen metal as "tough" or "violent" in a manly, muscly kind of way, I've always seen that side of metal as more of a chaotic, uncontrolled kind of thing. Metal to me has always fallen into two chategories: mechanical, and superhuman. 

Everything in metal, to me, is about sounding bigger than human, or sounding like a machine, and in both cases, occasionally sounding violently out of control and dangerous.


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## dmguitarist99 (Jan 11, 2010)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> The guitarist and drummer in Cynic, Doc of Vader was gay and it's believed other members are, and the bassist/vocalist of Morbid is "bi". Yes he has a wife but it's well known that he plays for both teams.





Holy Shit, Sean Reinert is gay? I had no idea, he's one of the most creative drummers I can think of though. I had a feeling David Vincent might have been 50/50, I wasn't positive though. I didn't know Doc *RIP* was either.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 11, 2010)

eleven59 said:


> I'm not saying watering it down musically. I've just never seen metal as "tough" or "violent" in a manly, muscly kind of way, I've always seen that side of metal as more of a chaotic, uncontrolled kind of thing. Metal to me has always fallen into two chategories: mechanical, and superhuman.
> 
> Everything in metal, to me, is about sounding bigger than human, or sounding like a machine, and in both cases, occasionally sounding violently out of control and dangerous.



The music goes with the theme. The lyrics match the image and it matches the music. Honestly the issue isn't that the genre is violent towards gays. Most gay men want no part of metal. These guys represent another of those groups of guys who used to beat them up, and their aggression is what puts lots of gay men off. A guy interested in Louis Vuitton shoes and frosting his hair isn't going to throw on some combat boots and jump into a pit, that's just how it is. That's WHY metal is good..it's for those who want that aggression and the music feeds that and scares off most people. Why fix what ain't broken? I've never heard a gay guy complain.



dmguitarist99 said:


> Holy Shit, Sean Reinert is gay? I had no idea, he's one of the most creative drummers I can think of though. I had a feeling David Vincent might have been 50/50, I wasn't positive though. I didn't know Doc *RIP* was either.









Really?


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## eleven59 (Jan 11, 2010)

^ Fair point 

I think my biggest thing is, I'm into all kinds of music, metal included, and I tend to look pretty metal (long hair, goatee), so people assume I'm just a standard metalhead, meanwhile I can not, at all, grasp the idea of enjoying being pissed off/negative all the time, or hating other kinds of music.


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## dmguitarist99 (Jan 11, 2010)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> The music goes with the theme. The lyrics match the image and it matches the music. Honestly the issue isn't that the genre is violent towards gays. Most gay men want no part of metal. These guys represent another of those groups of guys who used to beat them up, and their aggression is what puts lots of gay men off. A guy interested in Louis Vuitton shoes and frosting his hair isn't going to throw on some combat boots and jump into a pit, that's just how it is. That's WHY metal is good..it's for those who want that aggression and the music feeds that and scares off most people. Why fix what ain't broken? I've never heard a gay guy complain.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




....Thanks Drakkar..



...I'm certainly aware now


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## Rick (Jan 11, 2010)

eleven59 said:


> Is ridiculous, over the top, chest-beating manliness a requirement of metal?
> Are all/most metalheads actually homophobic/sexist?
> Am I the only one that finds this completely ridiculous and pathetic?



Probably.
Probably.
No.


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## EliNoPants (Jan 11, 2010)

all musicians of any sort, in any genre are poofters to some degree, you can never play any instrument properly without having finesse and a delicate touch, be as much of a meathead as you want the rest of the time, once you pick up that guitar, you've gotta rein it in a bit and have your dainty little fingers dance across those strings (unless you're Max Cavalera, somehow that guy still manages to write some of the coolest fucking riffs, despite possibly being a caveman) no matter what you're playing, hell, ESPECIALLY if you're playing super wanky shreddy "look at me" type solos...also, how long do you think someone would last at a metal show if they started screaming "Rob Halford is a faggot!"?


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 11, 2010)

Oh yeah..and Phil Anselmo's known for playing both fields...and that's the ONLY thing people don't have a problem with regarding him.


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## Winspear (Jan 11, 2010)

I don't know...while a lot of metal might be all 'manly' or what, I'd think the metal crowd care the LEAST about gays than of the more 'in' crowds


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## xXxPriestessxXx (Jan 11, 2010)

To speak for the whole sexism in metal, I think it has really declined over the years. Especially with the rise of some great female metal vocalists. I mean, there is always a dude in a group that thinks he is above women, or wants to treat them like they are his "bitch", but for the most part I think metal is much more accepting and woman friendly than other genres. Not to mention, they tend to be much less judgmental of the way a woman looks. At least these are my experiences.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 11, 2010)

xXxPriestessxXx said:


> To speak for the whole sexism in metal, I think it has really declined over the years. Especially with the rise of some great female metal vocalist. I mean, there is always a dude in a group that thinks he is above women, or wants to treat them like they are his "bitch", but for the most part I think metal is much more accepting and woman friendly than other genres. Not to mention, they tend to be much less judgemental of the way a woman looks. At least these are my experience.



Ur hawt


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## Customisbetter (Jan 11, 2010)

xXxPriestessxXx said:


> To speak for the whole sexism in metal, I think it has really declined over the years. Especially with the rise of some great female metal vocalist. I mean, there is always a dude in a group that thinks he is above women, or wants to treat them like they are his "bitch", but for the most part I think metal is much more accepting and woman friendly than other genres. Not to mention, they tend to be much less judgemental of the way a woman looks. At least these are my experience.



I prefer to be below the woman.


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## dmguitarist99 (Jan 11, 2010)

xXxPriestessxXx said:


> To speak for the whole sexism in metal, I think it has really declined over the years. Especially with the rise of some great female metal vocalist. I mean, there is always a dude in a group that thinks he is above women, or wants to treat them like they are his "bitch", but for the most part I think metal is much more accepting and woman friendly than other genres. Not to mention, they tend to be much less judgemental of the way a woman looks. At least these are my experience.




Agreed, also mainly because of the fact that metal girls are some of the most beautiful in existence 

but when I want to hear music that's sensitive to female needs, and tries to be as respectful as possible to them. I listen to rap...

/end sarcasm


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## FearFactoryDBCR (Jan 11, 2010)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Oh yeah..and Phil Anselmo's known for playing both fields...and that's the ONLY thing people don't have a problem with regarding him.


 
Seriously? Not like it's anything bad, but i've never heard anything about Phil being Bi, or having any kind of sexual relationship/encounter with a dude. Can you tell me where you heard this from?


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 11, 2010)

FearFactoryDBCR said:


> Seriously? Not like it's anything bad, but i've never heard anything about Phil being Bi, or having any kind of sexual relationship/encounter with a dude. Can you tell me where you heard this from?



Many sources including those who know him personally..it's on Metalsludge too. No one knows a rockstar like a groupie. He fits the type imo.


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## Mr. Big Noodles (Jan 11, 2010)

Hmm. Of the metalheads that I have known and met, opinions on homosexuality are about 50/50. I know guys that are complete homophobes, and guys who couldn't give a damn where somebody's putting their dick. I don't think I've been acquainted with any out-of-the-closet gay metalheads.

This thread reminds me of a part of a documentary that I saw for a sexuality class.


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## velvetkevorkian (Jan 11, 2010)

eleven59 said:


> So, this is something I've been seeing more and more being in the metal scene: guys always being "manly men" and making homophobic/sexist comments.
> 
> They'll (almost) always deny being actually homophobic/sexist, but they'll still be extremely disrespectful towards women/gays, and any time they don't like something it's "gay".
> 
> ...


No.
Probably.
Definitely Not.

I think I get where you're coming from in trying to remove the macho element from metal. For me metal has always been an outlet for violence and aggression- the music allows me to express that, so I can go on being mild mannered, laid back and peaceful. Listening to aggressive music makes me less aggressive, so I don't really buy into the whole macho thing at all.

I think there are issues of homophobia and derogatory uses of "gay" in wider society (which definitely piss me right off), and that comes through in metal circles too, but its not something that's a problem with metalheads in particular IMO.


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## Customisbetter (Jan 11, 2010)

^^Loving the background music.


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## FearFactoryDBCR (Jan 11, 2010)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Many sources including those who know him personally..it's on Metalsludge too. No one knows a rockstar like a groupie. He fits the type imo.


 
Wow, i'm surprised man, i've gotta say he's the first person to pop into my mind when i say manly macho metal head. You learn something new everyday haha. Also with groupies being mentioned, anybody seen that vid on youtube where Dime's teaching certain riffs backstage in a locker room and you can hear Phil making sexy time with a groupie in another room? Hahaha.


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## Cheesebuiscut (Jan 11, 2010)

Look at how many forms of metal have people wearing girls jeans size 00 shirts and tacky nic-nacs. 

Metal doesn't stick to any 1 look or thought process since the genre has more sub-genres then there is regular genre's in music.

If your talking about HXC kids (I think its called) then yeah they are the metal equivalent of people trying to act "gansta" 


Personally I spent most of my grade school years making people feel extremely uncomfortable with countless of gay jokes. Unfortunately this made a lot of people think I was actually gay and I got more gay guys making passes at me than girls...


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## S-O (Jan 11, 2010)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> The guitarist and drummer in Cynic, Doc of Vader was gay and it's believed other members are, and the bassist/vocalist of Morbid is "bi". Yes he has a wife but it's well known that he plays for both teams. There are others too and people don't care. It has nothing to do with the music so it's not really a factor. And we can all agree that the people I've mentioned have more than proven themselves in the scene and no one thinks twice about it. Surely you have a few who don't care but so what? That's life. You can write songs about eating people and raping dead children but you run crying because some idiot called you a fag?



Huh, never knew. Paul or Tymon? Never read about it before, and I worship Cynic  But then again it was a pain to find interviews that were unique from each other for the, each one seemed to ask the same things.



DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Really?



Well damn. 

I don't think I like my men with chest hair though. 

Back on topic.

I think the small groups that are into all the hate are the ones that ruin it for you.


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## EliNoPants (Jan 11, 2010)

Customisbetter said:


> I prefer to be below the woman.



that's something we all do as we get older...everyone fights for bottom position so they don't have to do as much work...stupid kids think being on top means some sort of dominant position...on bottom you get all of the benefit, plus watching boobies bounce, it's a winning situation if you ask me


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 11, 2010)

S-O said:


> Huh, never knew. Paul or Tymon? Never read about it before, and I worship Cynic  But then again it was a pain to find interviews that were unique from each other for the, each one seemed to ask the same things.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Paul I think it is. The little one..not the one with all the hair. Clearly I'm a diehard Cynic fan


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## JaxoBuzzo (Jan 11, 2010)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Paul I think it is. The little one..not the one with all the hair.


 Eh, i could see that about Paul...but about Anselmo?...not that i have a problem with someone being gay,but still,its Phil Anselmo.


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## White Cluster (Jan 11, 2010)

With the exception of KillWhitneyDead I really can't think of any Metal bands that are outwardly sexist.Rock bands definitely.They make up for the impotentcy of their music with chauvanistic behavior to appear macho.I don't think homophobia is any more prevalent in metal as it is in the rest of society.Same goes for racism or any other "ism".Almost every metal show i've been to has been a complete sausagefest.I wouldn't be surprised if there is a few gay guys in the crowd.Hell,those of us that have been groped while crowd surfing know that to be fact.


Just because people listen to aggressive,violent music does not make it indicative of their persona or lifestyle.Rage is an emotion we all feel and metal is a great release.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 11, 2010)

JaxoBuzzo said:


> Eh, i could see that about Paul...but about Anselmo?...not that i have a problem with someone being gay,but still,its Phil Anselmo.



A drug using overly macho metalhead? If that isn't the posterchild for the pseudo-gay "head is head" guy I don't know what is.


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## Triple-J (Jan 11, 2010)

To be honest as a black man I think that rap and hip hop are far more homophobic than metal can ever be but the irony is that rap (like metal) does have a lot of homoerotic undertones, though I think that rap is homophobic because black culture as a whole has a MAJOR problem with homosexuality but thats an entirely different debate for a different day.

As for metal and homosexuality imo it's quite a dense and variable subject for example I go to Rockworld which is a club in my town and it provokes a reaction but I also go to another club in leeds called the Wendyhouse and I've seen just about every type of sexual preference or kink there and no one gives a shit yet I've no fucking clue why theres such a difference. 

When Gaahl came out I found the reactions of the fans interesting but for the most part fucking stupid cause his sexuality makes zero difference to his music plus in terms of philosophy he's known for being very anti religion so in a way him being gay is the ultimate fuck you he could give to the world as to some people it's still taboo and isn't breaking taboos a big part of metal anyway?

I definitely don't buy into metal being a macho thing though as for me it's about aggression yet metal is also about being intelligent as it's subject matter is limitless it's the only genre which discusses history, religion, politics and morality, themes of science fiction or just the basic need to punch someones face in, plus I think machismo has nothing positive to offer humanity but a bad poserish attitude that starts fights whereas anger is a positive thing and in the words of John Lydon "anger is an energy!"


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## White Cluster (Jan 11, 2010)

*YOU GONNA GET RAPED!*


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## S-O (Jan 11, 2010)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Paul I think it is. The little one..not the one with all the hair. Clearly I'm a diehard Cynic fan



Well damn.

Not that it really matters musically, but it is interesting.

I would do all of Cynic.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 11, 2010)

S-O said:


> Well damn.
> 
> Not that it really matters musically, but it is interesting.
> 
> I would do all of Cynic.



.....would you now.....


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## S-O (Jan 11, 2010)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> .....would you now.....



At least he's not hairy


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## eleven59 (Jan 11, 2010)

So, I think what I've learned is:

Regardless of genres, some people are just douchebags


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 11, 2010)

S-O said:


> At least he's not hairy



Ahem..hairy men are sexy. Shaved men just look...well...gay. I can't stand when guys do that shit.


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## kung_fu (Jan 11, 2010)

Honestly, i'm seeing the exact opposite happen. It seems that most bands these days aren't afraid to be silly and make fun of themselves. I think people have realized how stupid the macho chest-beating posing of the 80s and 90s was. Also with respect to the whole "gay" thing, just watch the Louis CK bit. 

Possibly NSFW due to some foul language:


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## Customisbetter (Jan 11, 2010)

^^i can't stand people.


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## TomAwesome (Jan 11, 2010)

eleven59 said:


> True enough, it just seems like a large number of people take that shit seriously and it's starting to piss me off and make me want to quit the scene.



So ditch the scene and enjoy the music on your own.


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## S-O (Jan 11, 2010)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Ahem..hairy men are sexy. Shaved men just look...well...gay. I can't stand when guys do that shit.



Respectable. I guess I am just more down for well groomed, there can be hair, I just need it to be under control. Mostly to counteract me:

http://i805.photobucket.com/albums/yy336/sos1990/Axe-FX Ultra/DSCN0704.jpg

That goes for my women too. 

That's right, I need my women to have well kept beards and chest hair.


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## jjjsssxxx (Jan 11, 2010)

I think the whole macho, metal as a release of anger etc. thing is great for teenagers who don't/can't get laid, but is essentially retarded. A loud, distorted guitar and loud ass drums can represent a lot of things other than anger and frustration. Granted that's a big part of it, but it also just sounds fucking cool. Jazz isn't an expression of sex and crime, but it's been used in movie soundtracks for sleazy sex and crime scenes for decades. Mosh pits, tattoos, flexed muscles, long hair, shaved heads, pointy guitars - all of those things are really separate from the music for me.

I think racism is more rampant in metal scenes, at least in America, than sexism or homophobia.

But maybe that's just me.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 11, 2010)

Neal said:


> I think the whole macho, metal as a release of anger etc. thing is great for teenagers who don't/can't get laid, but is essentially retarded. A loud, distorted guitar and loud ass drums can represent a lot of things other than anger and frustration. Granted that's a big part of it, but it also just sounds fucking cool. Jazz isn't an expression of sex and crime, but it's been used in movie soundtracks for sleazy sex and crime scenes for decades. Mosh pits, tattoos, flexed muscles, long hair, shaved heads, pointy guitars - all of those things are really separate from the music for me.
> 
> I think racism is more rampant in metal scenes, at least in America, than sexism or homophobia.
> 
> But maybe that's just me.



Racism is something I rarely see. When dealing with black metal and the whole NSBM thing then maybe, but I've gone to shows with skinheads and whatnot and had 0 issue. I've never been hassled about anything really.



S-O said:


> Respectable. I guess I am just more down for well groomed, there can be hair, I just need it to be under control. Mostly to counteract me:
> 
> http://i805.photobucket.com/albums/yy336/sos1990/Axe-FX Ultra/DSCN0704.jpg
> 
> ...



I don't have a lot of body hair, but the hair I do have goes nowhere. I shave nothing below the neck. Unless a guy has an extra, extra amount of hair..no shaving. Then again I like wooly lookin dudes and bears and shit.


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## xXxPriestessxXx (Jan 11, 2010)

Neal said:


> I think the whole macho, metal as a release of anger etc. thing is great for teenagers who don't/can't get laid, but is essentially retarded. A loud, distorted guitar and loud ass drums can represent a lot of things other than anger and frustration. Granted that's a big part of it, but it also just sounds fucking cool. Jazz isn't an expression of sex and crime, but it's been used in movie soundtracks for sleazy sex and crime scenes for decades. Mosh pits, tattoos, flexed muscles, long hair, shaved heads, pointy guitars - all of those things are really separate from the music for me.
> 
> I think racism is more rampant in metal scenes, at least in America, than sexism or homophobia.
> 
> But maybe that's just me.



I seem to have seen more racism in punk and ska type stuff.  Guess it is different in different regions.


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## E Lucevan Le Stelle (Jan 11, 2010)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Paul I think it is. The little one..not the one with all the hair. Clearly I'm a diehard Cynic fan



Paul certainly comes across as gay...

...and he's fucking gorgeous 






I asked him if he wanted to get a drink someplace after the Cynic reunion show in London - he kind of brushed me off with being "too busy". Now that would have been some (gay) metal credibility


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 11, 2010)

E Lucevan Le Stelle said:


> Paul certainly comes across as gay...
> 
> ...and he's fucking gorgeous
> 
> ...



Meh..not really my thing. 

You know the funny thing with Cynic is, before I knew anything about them, I tried getting into their music. Didn't like it at all. Talking this over with a friend, he asked me why and I told him that "it just sounds gay" Then I find out what I know now..funny how that works.


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## S-O (Jan 11, 2010)

Seems like gay is pretty damn metal.

I guess the homophobia is really just in your scene. Bummer.


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## eleven59 (Jan 11, 2010)

S-O said:


> Seems like gay is pretty damn metal.
> 
> I guess the homophobia is really just in your scene. Bummer.



I think it's mainly a misunderstanding on my part


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## TheHandOfStone (Jan 11, 2010)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Paul I think it is. The little one..not the one with all the hair. Clearly I'm a diehard Cynic fan



This makes a lot of sense, actually. Chuck sang about Masdival in The Philosopher: "So you preach about how I'm supposed to be, yet you don't know your own sexuality."


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## S-O (Jan 11, 2010)

eleven59 said:


> I think it's mainly a misunderstanding on my part


 
Maybe it is a lot more subtle than we realize, and your scene is just a little less subtle.


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## E Lucevan Le Stelle (Jan 11, 2010)

TheHandOfStone said:


> This makes a lot of sense, actually. Chuck sang about Masdival in The Philosopher: "So you preach about how I'm supposed to be, yet you don't know your own sexuality."



Yep. He fell out with Masvidal and Reinert in '93 because they wanted to take the band in the jazz/metal direction that ended up with Focus, while he wanted to carry on with his ideas - especially given that Masvidal and Reinert had just been hired as session guys, really. "The Philosopher" was just a cheap shot at Masvidal for trying to take over creative direction in the band.


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## Zugster (Jan 11, 2010)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> ...And we can all agree that the people I've mentioned have more than proven themselves in the scene and no one thinks twice about it. Surely you have a few who don't care but so what? That's life. You can write songs about eating people and raping dead children but you run crying because some idiot called you a fag?


 
Ummm... how is raping dead children and the like, manly? I don't get it.



Neal said:


> I think the whole macho, metal as a release of anger etc. thing is great for teenagers who don't/can't get laid, but is essentially retarded. A loud, distorted guitar and loud ass drums can represent a lot of things other than anger and frustration. Granted that's a big part of it, but it also just sounds fucking cool. Jazz isn't an expression of sex and crime, but it's been used in movie soundtracks for sleazy sex and crime scenes for decades. Mosh pits, tattoos, flexed muscles, long hair, shaved heads, pointy guitars - all of those things are really separate from the music for me.
> 
> I think racism is more rampant in metal scenes, at least in America, than sexism or homophobia.
> 
> But maybe that's just me.


 
+1


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 11, 2010)

Zugster said:


> Ummm... how is raping dead children and the like, manly? I don't get it.


I never said it was. But if you can write overly aggressive brutish songs and put yourself into such a mindset, you shouldn't cringe like a little girl at a silly name.


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## S-O (Jan 11, 2010)

E Lucevan Le Stelle said:


> Yep. He fell out with Masvidal and Reinert in '93 because they wanted to take the band in the jazz/metal direction that ended up with Focus, while he wanted to carry on with his ideas - especially given that Masvidal and Reinert had just been hired as session guys, really. "The Philosopher" was just a cheap shot at Masvidal for trying to take over creative direction in the band.



That's funny, I always felt that Individual Thought Patterns was continuing on with the sound that Human started, and led to what Symbolic and the Sound of Perseverance would be.

Human and Symbolic are my favorite ones from them, kind of lame that Chuck bashed on Paul like that, never noticed it before though, don't listen to ITP that much.

I thought I read everywhere that Chuck was down with Paul and Sean pitching ideas to him, guess I read wrong.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 11, 2010)

S-O said:


> That's funny, I always felt that Individual Thought Patterns was continuing on with the sound that Human started, and led to what Symbolic and the Sound of Perseverance would be.
> 
> Human and Symbolic are my favorite ones from them, kind of lame that Chuck bashed on Paul like that, never noticed it before though, don't listen to ITP that much.
> 
> I thought I read everywhere that Chuck was down with Paul and Sean pitching ideas to him, guess I read wrong.



Ya know..Chuck seemed ultra gay to me. That girlfriend business fools no one. Homeboy was sweet.


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## S-O (Jan 11, 2010)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Ya know..Chuck seemed ultra gay to me. That girlfriend business fools no one. Homeboy was sweet.



I genuinely lol'd.


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## Waelstrum (Jan 12, 2010)

One of my favorite you-tube arguments is when some idiot calls symphony x 'gay' and 'un-metal', and someone else replies so's rob halford and he's the god of metal.


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## Scar Symmetry (Jan 12, 2010)

Cheesebuiscut said:


> Personally I spent most of my grade school years making people feel extremely uncomfortable with countless of gay jokes. Unfortunately this made a lot of people think I was actually gay and I got more gay guys making passes at me than girls...


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## wannabguitarist (Jan 12, 2010)

I thought I read in some interview that Paul had a wife and kids . Not that that means he's not gay, or that him being gay makes Cynic any less awesome (but does that make my man-crush on his musical abilities weird now?). From all the interviews I've seen he comes off like the kind of person that would have no problem openly coming out, and it wouldn't surprise me if he did.

I also never thought of metal being homophobic; maybe it's the just the metalheads I know though . And isn't being gay like the ultimate peak in macho-ness?


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## Metal Ken (Jan 12, 2010)

eleven59 said:


> They'll (almost) always deny being actually homophobic/sexist, but they'll still be extremely disrespectful towards women/gays, and any time they don't like something it's "gay".


A while back, i knew a couple of lesbians who were into metal, and they'd be the first to call something they didnt like "Gay" or "faggy"


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## auxioluck (Jan 12, 2010)

The whole thing is funny to me. Most people in metal or those who listen to metal typically feel that they are in some way misunderstood.

We are jaded, bitter, and individualistic by nature. Most of my gay friends fit this mold perfectly. 

I'm going to spin off-point here and ask....does anyone else think that, with his musical talent and creativity that Freddy Mercury would have been one hell of a metal musician? Because I do.


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## jjjsssxxx (Jan 12, 2010)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Racism is something I rarely see. When dealing with black metal and the whole NSBM thing then maybe, but I've gone to shows with skinheads and whatnot and had 0 issue. I've never been hassled about anything really.



I don't mean the kind of overt racism like a harassment or violence, just the chicken-shit, behind-the-back, in the safety of their own car type.



xXxPriestessxXx said:


> I seem to have seen more racism in punk and ska type stuff.  Guess it is different in different regions.



Probably is different in different parts of the country.
Racism in a ska scene seems especially hilarious/stupid.


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## SnowfaLL (Jan 12, 2010)

You know what they say about people who are homophobic; they are the most likely to be a closet homosexual, or having an instance in the past that was gay and are trying to hide it by acting homophobic.

I think its a pretty good description of some metalheads, It wouldnt surprise me at all if many have had those kinds of pasts.. And then look at how much of the metal scene worship Rob Halford. and wasnt that pantera singer gay also? He sure is an asshole either way.


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## Loomer (Jan 12, 2010)

I don't quite know about the danish scene, really. A lot of people probably think I'm gay, since I always show up well-groomed, wear tight-fitting tshirts and is never seen "conquering" women. 

The last bit is not voluntary, though 

I rarely ever encounter real homophobia, though. If anything I encounter homoeroticism in spades, since we're usually all up with the hugs and calling each other "sweetheart" and shit


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## wannabguitarist (Jan 12, 2010)

Customisbetter said:


> I prefer to be below the woman.



Makes life easier at times


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## Mr. Big Noodles (Jan 12, 2010)

NickCormier said:


> You know what they say about people who are homophobic; they are the most likely to be a closet homosexual, or having an instance in the past that was gay and are trying to hide it by acting homophobic.



See my post on page 4.


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## sol niger 333 (Jan 12, 2010)

Scar Symmetry said:


> Macho can also be a gay thing in context, hell I'm sure there are gay dudes out there who love drinking beer, playing guitar fast and banging their heads.



Define "banging their heads"


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 12, 2010)

So then we can all agree that homosexual fagbeasts are a plague sweeping the nation, promoting loose morals and AIDS to our children and they need to be destroyed like the sinning heathen unwashed animals that they are. Agreed? Good. Now let's all go to church. Gaymen...I mean AMEN...I MEANT AMEN


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## drmosh (Jan 12, 2010)

in most cases it's people not thinking before they speak when they call something gay, it kinda pisses me off. Not because I am gay (my wife would be furious!  ), but because it's become such a blanket statement.
In other cases it's people just being uneducated idiots


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## ShadyDavey (Jan 12, 2010)

eleven59 said:


> I guess what I'm asking is:
> 
> Is ridiculous, over the top, chest-beating manliness a requirement of metal?
> Are all/most metalheads actually homophobic/sexist?
> Am I the only one that finds this completely ridiculous and pathetic?



a) No - this is not the 70's where cocaine, orgies, big hair and knicker collections were the way to demonstrate a succesful act.

b) None of the one's I've met in about 30 years of liking metal were homophobic...there were a lot of sexist twats in the 80's. 

c) No, you are not alone it IS ridiculous and pathetic. 

Perhaps I missed the point but metal was never about the image or the traits of success...it's always been about the music and anyone prepared to make judgements on any other quality of a musician needs to wake the fuck up. 

Or die. Either works for me.


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## Loomer (Jan 12, 2010)

One thing I've always kinda blamed, is the way gay men are portrayed in the media. Look at "Will & Grace" or "Queer Eye..." etc etc etc. Some homophobia may actually stem from the fact that when someone needs a gay person in the media, they usually go for the wildly flamboyant, overly effeminate flamer, as opposed to the normal dude who just happens to like cocks instead vaginas. 

There was a bit of a media ruffle about this in denmark a few years ago, when someone said gays were the "next big thing". Some homosexuals argued that the portrayal was one-sided, and that it would produce a warped idea in people's minds how gay people were. They argued that it would only perpetuate stereotypes and prejudice to portray only the prancing, preening, fashion-obsessed queens, and not the people who mind their own business like everyone else. It would perpetuate the idea that being gay somehow makes you different, which it doesn't.

An odd example of this, is how openly gay actor John Barrowman (from the series Torchwood), was turned down for the role of Will in "Will And Grace", because he was "too straight". The role then went to a straight man. Go figure.


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## Koshchei (Jan 12, 2010)

As metal has absorbed various musical traditions and spread around the globe, it's become a lot harder to quantify on the whole.

Certainly, less musically-inclined metal bands, which are more about dictating an exclusive lifestyle, have been known to encourage homophobic, racist, or macho behavior. However, this is not a consistent trend, as every band is different.

The most obvious example here is black metal, which runs the gamut from very mature avante-garde experimental music (Ihsahn, Ulver) to ultra-nationalistic authoritarian "white person music"* (Burzum, Mayhem, Gorgoroth).

*paraphrase attributed to Hellhammer


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## canuck brian (Jan 12, 2010)

Homophobia = lame. It's going to be something that isn't going away for a while actually because there are just too many ignorant metal fans. How long did people think Halford dressed like the most macho dude ever with the leather and spikes? 

I find it even more funny when hardcore homophobes worry about gay men trying to sex them up at all times when the gay dudes are probably thinking that they're badly dressed slobs that *might* be able to score a fat chick at the end of the night.  Seriously - the best dressed men are gay. Period.

I think I get the biggest kick out of watch Black Dahlia Murder's videos because it's obvious they're just having fun and not being macho dipshits.

That being said, I dont' see how playing wood instruments while dressed up in spiky leather and caked on makeup is macho....


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## Loomer (Jan 12, 2010)

Koshchei said:


> The most obvious example here is black metal, which runs the gamut from very mature avante-garde experimental music (Ihsahn, Ulver) to ultra-nationalistic authoritarian "white person music"* (Burzum, Mayhem, Gorgoroth).
> 
> *paraphrase attributed to Hellhammer



And the irony of that, is that Ihsahn and Ulver are the people who follow the basic idea of black metal the closest, by doing whatever they damn well please and following their creativity. How's that for kvltness?!


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## Koshchei (Jan 12, 2010)

Loomer said:


> And the irony of that, is that Ihsahn and Ulver are the people who follow the basic idea of black metal the closest, by doing whatever they damn well please and following their creativity. How's that for kvltness?!



Trvth! Mediocrity and homogeneity go hand in hand.


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## ry_z (Jan 12, 2010)

Loomer said:


> Some homophobia may actually stem from the fact that when someone needs a gay person in the media, they usually go for the wildly flamboyant, overly effeminate flamer, as opposed to the normal dude who just happens to like cocks instead vaginas.



Well, there's also the fact that many people (including many gay guys) think that there's something wrong with flamboyant or effeminate men. I say fuck that.


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## Loomer (Jan 12, 2010)

ry_z said:


> Well, there's also the fact that many people (including many gay guys) think that there's something wrong with flamboyant or effeminate men. I say fuck that.



Well, if someone is uber-hyper and "on" constantly it can get a bit grating. If you wear colour-splosion spandex and high heels, cool, just don't freakin' yell and scream all the time


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## AVWIII (Jan 12, 2010)

> Is ridiculous, over the top, chest-beating manliness a requirement of metal?
> Are all/most metalheads actually homophobic/sexist?
> Am I the only one that finds this completely ridiculous and pathetic?



If I was only going off my observations from the Slayer concert I attended a couple years back, I'd say yes.
This, of course, is not all true. The metal folks I hang out with are incredibly chilled, well balanced people that also love metal. That's what I'm familiar with, so that's what I like to see in a band. I'm not really into bands that over-use the whole macho frontman angle (I was born with a very low tolerance to air-punches and mimed slit throats ).
Honestly, the whole "tuffguy" scene has really kept me from seeing local shows in the past few years. My band's almost ready to start playing out again, so I'm hoping it's at least died down somewhat.


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## eleven59 (Jan 12, 2010)

AVWIII said:


> If I was only going off my observations from the Slayer concert I attended a couple years back, I'd say yes.
> This, of course, is not all true. The metal folks I hang out with are incredibly chilled, well balanced people that also love metal. That's what I'm familiar with, so that's what I like to see in a band. I'm not really into bands that over-use the whole macho frontman angle (I was born with a very low tolerance to air-punches and mimed slit throats ).
> Honestly, the whole "tuffguy" scene has really kept me from seeing local shows in the past few years. My band's almost ready to start playing out again, so I'm hoping it's at least died down somewhat.



This area is definitely a "-core" based scene, unfortunately, and that comes with a lot of "tough" guys. You basically have to develop a thick skin around here and realize that a lot of people are going to hate your band for no good reason  

To be honest, this is one of the things that I didn't like about our old singer, and one of the reasons I'm glad he's not in the band anymore. It's also, unfortunately, one of the reasons we got big in the local scene. 

The London scene is very clique-y, until you get to the all-ages crowd. We've had nothing but good experiences opening for bigger bands, and playing all-ages shows. There's just too much drama between certain bands in this city, that basically run Moon Over Marin and that scene. There's still some awesome bands that are great guys to hang out with and play shows with. Baptized In Blood, Battlesoul, Burn Us Both, (wow...a lot of "B"s  ) The Karma Cure are all really cool and don't get involved in any of the drama (there's others too).


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## Scar Symmetry (Jan 12, 2010)

sol niger 333 said:


> Define "banging their heads"



FROTTING.


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## Triple-J (Jan 12, 2010)

auxioluck said:


> I'm going to spin off-point here and ask....does anyone else think that, with his musical talent and creativity that Freddy Mercury would have been one hell of a metal musician? Because I do.



Listen to "Ogre Battle" by Queen it's metal as fuck and borders on being thrash infact Queen 2 is a very underated metal record and like most of their 70's albums it's definitely not the sort of material they are remembered for.


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## AVWIII (Jan 12, 2010)

eleven59 said:


> This area is definitely a "-core" based scene, unfortunately, and that comes with a lot of "tough" guys. You basically have to develop a thick skin around here and realize that a lot of people are going to hate your band for no good reason...


 I'm fine with that. 
It's good there're a bunch of bands around that don't play into the drama. I've had good experiences with the dudes from Vow of Thorns and one of the guys from TS&TS is in my band and he's hilarious. Other than that, I guess I really don't hang around with the local bands that much. Offtopic: I still haven't seen your band w. new singer yet. Definitely looking forward to it.


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## Xiphos68 (Jan 12, 2010)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Considering you have people members of Vader, Gorgoroth,Morbid Angel, Judas Priest, King's X, Cynic, Otep, etc who are gay I don't think it's that big of a deal.


Who is gay in Cynic?


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## velvetkevorkian (Jan 12, 2010)

Why does it matter?


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## wannabguitarist (Jan 12, 2010)

Xiphos68 said:


> Who is gay in Cynic?



Sean and there are lots of rumors (and a death song) about Paul


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## eleven59 (Jan 12, 2010)

AVWIII said:


> I'm fine with that.
> It's good there're a bunch of bands around that don't play into the drama. I've had good experiences with the dudes from Vow of Thorns and one of the guys from TS&TS is in my band and he's hilarious. Other than that, I guess I really don't hang around with the local bands that much. Offtopic: I still haven't seen your band w. new singer yet. Definitely looking forward to it.



Cool, which guy from TS&TS? We've played with them a few times and so I know all those guys.

You coming to the Emmure/After The Burial/Terror show we're opening?


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 12, 2010)

ry_z said:


> Well, there's also the fact that many people (including many gay guys) think that there's something wrong with flamboyant or effeminate men. I say fuck that.



Nothing wrong with them..but not many men wants to be that way. There's nothing about Mr. Fabuloth! that makes me want to imitate that and to be honest it get's highly annoying. I'm gay and I've never been one to hang around those kinds of guys. Doesn't make them inferior but it's just not my thing and being around that long enough will drive me to murder.


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## Randy (Jan 12, 2010)

Xiphos68 said:


> Who is gay in Cynic?





wannabguitarist said:


> Sean and there are lots of rumors (and a death song) about Paul



I thought this was obvious, no? Well, I mean, they *were* both in Aeon Spoke.

Kidding, kidding. I actually really like AS.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 12, 2010)

PAUL AND SEAN ARE GAY. THEY ARE IN CYNIC...EVERYONE GOT THAT?

Why is this huge news, why is it that I know this and I couldn't even hum a Cynic song yet fans didn't get the memo? Now we're all on the same page. And no it's no "rumor" Paul is gay. Am I the only one who thinks those two are obvious?


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## cyril v (Jan 12, 2010)

I really don't see how any of this relates to music at all... saying that it's people that are into metal is a sweeping generalization with not much of an argument to rely on. IMO of course, if I had to guess I would think it's the same percentage as any other group of people that aren't into metal.


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## S-O (Jan 12, 2010)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> PAUL AND SEAN ARE GAY. THEY ARE IN CYNIC...EVERYONE GOT THAT?
> 
> Why is this huge news, why is it that I know this and I couldn't even hum a Cynic song yet fans didn't get the memo? Now we're all on the same page. And no it's no "rumor" Paul is gay. Am I the only one who thinks those two are obvious?



I really didn't know. And I damn near worship them. 

Meh, just interesting.

I guess I have no Gaydar, if one exists.


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## E Lucevan Le Stelle (Jan 12, 2010)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Nothing wrong with them..but not many men wants to be that way. There's nothing about Mr. Fabuloth! that makes me want to imitate that and to be honest it get's highly annoying. I'm gay and I've never been one to hang around those kinds of guys. Doesn't make them inferior but it's just not my thing and being around that long enough will drive me to murder.



Oh shut up, you know you'd go for me nonetheless


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## Xiphos68 (Jan 12, 2010)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> PAUL AND SEAN ARE GAY. THEY ARE IN CYNIC...EVERYONE GOT THAT?
> 
> Why is this huge news, why is it that I know this and I couldn't even hum a Cynic song yet fans didn't get the memo? Now we're all on the same page. And no it's no "rumor" Paul is gay. Am I the only one who thinks those two are obvious?


I just talked to my friend who is big in the music business he said "he was pretty sure Paul is married."


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## iondestroyer1527 (Jan 12, 2010)

i'd have to chalk this up to being sheerly cultural and not really having anything to do with music.IMO.it's very common now for people to use words like "gay"... watch the episode of south park where they pretty much chronical the use of the word "fag" and how the meaning is so skewed now but no one really questions it. also bands like agoraphobic nosebleed, i wrestled a bear once,arch enemy, blood shot eye all boast female lead singers and i don't really see any sexism there because they are sweet but i would say if they sucked it may seem like there was some sexism because people might use phrases like "that bitch sucks" but that i would think would just be in reaction to the person not being good at vox. there again with more extreme metal you do see lyrics that would degrade women and it's really "light hearted" in that it's kind of like a competition to see who can be sometimes even more medically descriptive to "seem" more mentally disturbed than the next band haha. i dunno just my best answer to the question i guess...take it or leave it.


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## ry_z (Jan 13, 2010)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Nothing wrong with them..but not many men wants to be that way. There's nothing about Mr. Fabuloth! that makes me want to imitate that and to be honest it get's highly annoying. I'm gay and I've never been one to hang around those kinds of guys. Doesn't make them inferior but it's just not my thing and being around that long enough will drive me to murder.



Well, just because someone is effeminate or flamboyant (which certainly aren't the same thing anyway) doesn't mean they're necessarily annoying.


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## CrushingAnvil (Jan 13, 2010)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Considering you have people members of Vader, Gorgoroth,Morbid Angel, Judas Priest, King's X, Cynic, Otep, etc who are gay I don't think it's that big of a deal.
> 
> The whole "gay" word is just a phrase and I don't think homophobia is that rampant in the metal community. Most people don't care. Masculinity is a part of metal, and it always will be and should be, but that doesn't exclude gay men..gay men usually don't want to be a part of it for that reason. I'm a gay man in the metal scene and I've never had an issue with anyone, especially because I'm more than willing to crack someone's skull if I had to. It's not being gay that's frowned upon in metal..it's pretty much being a wimp.



/Thread.

Drakkar, you are the coolest person I know about being gay...

In my experience it's mostly people who aren't even gay who make a big deal about people using the word 'gay' in the negative sense...which is perfectly warranted if something is cringe worthy/camp/disgustingly up-beat.

Thread, Drakkar is the first homosexual I have ever met online/spoken to, personally, from the metal community but I honestly don't think there's a tolerance issue...I think ever since Halford came out, people have been fully accepting and have totally embraced it as it opposes christian beliefs 

I don't 100% agree with homosexuality (and I understand that alot of the time you don't choose if you're gay or not) but I don't discourage it, I tolerate it totally.

For instance if Drakkar came up to me one day and suggested we start a band, his sexuality wouldn't even come to mind.

Although just because I'm a decent person, that doesn't mean there aren't intolerant people out there (which there are) and they may or may not be in the metal community, I just haven't heard of any intolerance concerning homosexuality, more so concerning racism, which, unfortunately Drakkar could become subject to  although It's 2010, people like that should become rarer but I dear say I think as long as there are humans, there is going to be bigotry.

Concerning women? I personally would prefer chicks from a Judas Priest concert from 1984 as opposed to chicks from a Lamb Of God concert in 2010


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## Hollowman (Jan 13, 2010)

Hollowman666 said:


> or you can be Steel Panther and making fun of it and the so called lifestyle.



I made this quote a couple days ago and had sometime to actually ponder this and discuss this topic with friends because this was a very good topic. I don't really think being gay has anything to do with metal or you abilities to do the things that are enjoyed by anyone/everyone someone spoke of Doc R.I.P of Vader being gay who cares he kicked mad ass the same goes with Elton John, Freddy Mercury and Rob Halford and the list goes on and on, however I thought it was funny that people gasped when Halford came out and acted like it was a shock like you couldn't tell . but again I said who cares METAL is for everyone....as for the other part of this topic you have to look at country or mainstream rock or rap for sexism more so than metal. so regardless rock on my brethren!!!


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## Ram150023 (Jan 13, 2010)

IMO... who gives a hell if you can chug on the strings or beat the shit out of a bass drum??? Its all about the music... for each and every person it evokes a reaction/ emotion... unfortunately its the a-holes that seem to stick out in a crowd more often than not. But who gives a turkey what sexual preference of someone is... especially if they are packing venues and selling albums??? Doesnt matter to me... agreed metal is for everyone!!!


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 13, 2010)

Xiphos68 said:


> I just talked to my friend who is big in the music business he said "he was pretty sure Paul is married."



Since when does being married mean you're straight?



ry_z said:


> Well, just because someone is effeminate or flamboyant (which certainly aren't the same thing anyway) doesn't mean they're necessarily annoying.



The hell it doesn't. I find them highly annoying. Maybe you don't, but believe me I've tried to "not be so mean" and mingle with such people. It always ends with a migraine.


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## elrrek (Jan 13, 2010)

I think the people saying they haven't experienced any homophobia in metal must not have been going to metal concerts.

And you can replace "homophobia" with "sexism" as well.

That's my experience and while I fully endorse the statements being made by other people in this thread that "metal is for everyone", there are many I have met who do not subscribe to this view.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 13, 2010)

elrrek said:


> I think the people saying they haven't experienced any homophobia in metal must not have been going to metal concerts.
> 
> And you can replace "homophobia" with "sexism" as well.
> 
> That's my experience and while I fully endorse the statements being made by other people in this thread that "metal is for everyone", there are many I have met who do not subscribe to this view.



Of course there are some more hostile scenarios than others, but as a general rule it's not as bad as one would think. Of course you have to also factor in the location..in some places it may be worse than other places. And it goes back to my thing about being just like all the other men in metal, how would one know you were gay? Most people assume someone is straight, especially at a metal show. It's mainly the wimp factor that's frowned on. You could be straight and if you go into a Cannibal Corpse show with a pocket protector, plaid shirt, highwater khakis and dress shoes you'll get your ass handed to you. And it's also like I said, if there's a gay guy in the scene who's sexuality is known, he may be hassled. If he caves faces just like anyone else he's less likely to be fucked with. Metal isn't exactly for the "hold me and cry" types and unless you're just crazy, you won't bother someone who could very well stomp you flat. That's not just for metal that's for life and the gay guys who adopt that policy have less hassle than the ones who are more likely to curl into a fetal position at a moments notice.


----------



## JJ Rodriguez (Jan 13, 2010)

I hate super fabulous gay dudes. I mean, I don't give a shit if you like dick, but come on, act fucking normal, not like a prissy little fag


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 13, 2010)

JJ Rodriguez said:


> I hate super fabulous gay dudes. I mean, I don't give a shit if you like dick, but come on, act fucking normal, not like a prissy little fag



This


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## JJ Rodriguez (Jan 13, 2010)

You don't need to act super fabulous Drak. You ARE super fabulous, on the inside.


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## Konfyouzd (Jan 13, 2010)

You're gonna find the macho "manly men" in any circle... Half of em are more faggy than actual homosexuals...

And you don't have to be gay to be FABULOOOOOOOOOOOOOOUSSS!!!


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## White Cluster (Jan 13, 2010)

Super fab gay guys are good for comedic value. Their outrageousness cracks me up. 




Plus they're more apt to swallow.lol



It's like those people that just try too hard to show they fit in with a certain group. For christ's sake just be yourself. People will respond more positively if they feel your being genuine. If they feel that there is some sort of facade that you're hiding behind they are more likely to push you away. Just ask Vanilla Ice.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 13, 2010)

JJ Rodriguez said:


> You don't need to act super fabulous Drak. You ARE super fabulous, on the inside.



And you're all man on the inside JJ......I should know...I've been there


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## Konfyouzd (Jan 13, 2010)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> And you're all man on the inside JJ......I should know...I've been there


Awesome... 



White Cluster said:


> It's like those people that just try too hard to show they fit in with a certain group. For christ's sake just be yourself. People will respond more positively if they feel your being genuine. If they feel that there is some sort of facade that you're hiding behind they are more likely to push you away. Just ask Vanilla Ice.



Vanilla Ice could dance his ass off back in the day... Just sayin...


----------



## Xiphos68 (Jan 14, 2010)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Since when does being married mean you're straight?


Two gay people that are "supposedly married." That's not marriage. Marriage is for only man and women. Not man and man nor woman or woman.

Besides my friend was surprised when I told him that and he was pretty sure he was married to a women and had a family.


----------



## boltzthrower (Jan 14, 2010)

Xiphos68 said:


> Marriage is for only man and women.



So polygamy only? LOL

Marriage in the eyes of the federal goverment is bullshit, regardless of sexual orientation. Why should only married people be eligible for special tax breaks and shit? What about people that aren't married? You're being punished for not getting married, or you're being awarded for getting married? What about if you're hideously deformed and no one will marry you? Then you should have to pay more? WTF! I guess it's just some bizarre archaic remnant from the cultist upbringing of this nation.


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## Scar Symmetry (Jan 14, 2010)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> And you're all man on the inside JJ......I should know...I've been there



 This thread is hilarious!



Xiphos68 said:


> Two gay people that are "supposedly married." That's not marriage. Marriage is for only man and women. Not man and man nor woman or woman.
> 
> Besides my friend was surprised when I told him that and he was pretty sure he was married to a women and had a family.



Dude, I may or may not agree with you, but religious practises have no place in intelligent discussion. Please refrain from posting in threads like this if you don't agree to avoid needlessly offending anyone.



boltzthrower said:


> So polygamy only? LOL
> 
> Marriage in the eyes of the federal goverment is bullshit, regardless of sexual orientation. Why should only married people be eligible for special tax breaks and shit? What about people that aren't married? You're being punished for not getting married, or you're being awarded for getting married? What about if you're hideously deformed and no one will marry you? Then you should have to pay more? WTF! I guess it's just some bizarre archaic remnant from the cultist upbringing of this nation.



I'm sure there's some sort of financial benefit for the Government but never having been married I don't know what it is! It's the only thing that makes sense though.


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## Cheesebuiscut (Jan 14, 2010)

Scar Symmetry said:


> but religious practises have no place in intelligent discussion.



Dizzle +500 points for dave!

Hunter no one wants to hear bigoted ideals on this forum, sorry. Keep that shit to yourself.





and I agree with the gyst of what drakkars been saying. Its not about gay or not gay its about acting macho. Acting like the tough "gansta kids from the ghetto" type of thing they just listen to metal music.

Prime example:

YouTube - WINDS OF PLAGUE - The Impaler (OFFICIAL VIDEO)


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## Scar Symmetry (Jan 14, 2010)

Cheesebuiscut said:


> Dizzle +500 points for dave!
> 
> Hunter no one wants to hear bigoted ideals on this forum, sorry. Keep that shit to yourself.



For once we are in total agreement


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## ArtDecade (Jan 14, 2010)

Scar Symmetry said:


> Dude, I may or may not agree with you, but religious practises have no place in intelligent discussion. Please refrain from posting in threads like this if you don't agree to avoid needlessly offending anyone.


 
I half agree with you here. I think religious practices can be discussed as long as they are presented in a manner that permits debate. That being said, I think the original post was written in a way that is needlessly offensive.


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## distressed_romeo (Jan 14, 2010)

ArtDecade said:


> I half agree with you here. I think religious practices can be discussed as long as they are presented in a manner that permits debate. That being said, I think the original post was written in a way that is needlessly offensive.





I think Drakkar actually meant that it's possible for someone to be married and come out as gay later, or to be openly gay but be married to someone else for the sake of convenience/legal complications/children etc.


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## Scar Symmetry (Jan 14, 2010)

ArtDecade said:


> I half agree with you here. I think religious practices can be discussed as long as they are presented in a manner that permits debate. That being said, I think the original post was written in a way that is needlessly offensive.



That's funny because I half agree with you too 

My personal opinion is that if religious practises are to be brought into intelligent discussion then they must be met from a completely neutral point of view. With some people that is possible (xXxPriestessxXx can do this no problem) but it doesn't seem like it's possible here which is why I said it has no place here, I meant this discussion specifically


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## JJ Rodriguez (Jan 14, 2010)

You know Xiphos, you were doing so good at not being a knob about religion then you had to go and pull this shit in this thread and the Booby guitar thread.

We're excited you found something that works for you, but just because your intangible father figure in the sky deems homosexuals unworthy of basic human rights, doesn't mean you have to come in here with your intolerance.

Also, $20 says this thread gets closed within 24 hours


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## MaxOfMetal (Jan 14, 2010)

Has anyone else noticed the tag?


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## JJ Rodriguez (Jan 14, 2010)

That's awesome.


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## JJ Rodriguez (Jan 14, 2010)

Also, the more sausage jockeys there are in metal, the more pre-marital poon there is for the rest of us heathens.


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## ArtDecade (Jan 14, 2010)

Scar Symmetry said:


> That's funny because I half agree with you too
> 
> My personal opinion is that if religious practises are to be brought into intelligent discussion then they must be met from a completely neutral point of view. With some people that is possible (xXxPriestessxXx can do this no problem) but it doesn't seem like it's possible here which is why I said it has no place here, I meant this discussion specifically


 
 I change my position and now totally agree with you.


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## EliNoPants (Jan 14, 2010)

JJ Rodriguez said:


> Also, the more sausage jockeys there are in metal, the more pre-marital poon there is for the rest of us heathens.



repped! i've always thought this...it works both ways, the gay guys get more options, and us straight guys get less competition


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## Concr3t3 (Jan 14, 2010)

I could care less about a person's sexual orientation; it has nothing to do with me. My sister is a happily married lesbian and she and her wife have 2 normal well adjusted kids. Maybe that makes me part lesbian? 

Anyhow, I want to chime in on "gay" being used is everyday language. I think when one says "That guy is gay." It could mean 1 of 2 things: 1. That guy is of the homosexual persuasion. Or 2. That guy is not a favorable person. I was once asked by a friend of mine to stop using "gay" to describe something lame. I then asked him if I should use "sucks" or "blows". He laughed and understood the point I was making. 

I really don't see the big deal in using the word "gay" in describing something unfavorable. I and the people I am in conversation with know exactly what I am referring to from a negative point of view. This purpose of this debate is nothing more than to fuel any issues and/or drama attached to the homosexual lifestyle, and that's it. If it were truly about the belittling of a culture, then why I have NEVER heard any complaints about "douchebag" being used to describe an unfavorable person? Women should be ALL over that one but they're not. No one is, that I know of. And I'm sure there are many many more words out there have a 2nd or 3rd definition added because of slang.

It's pretty obvious that people forget that communication is more than just grunts, moans, and clicks slurred together to form words. There's emotion and point of reference. Point of reference is the most important because without that we'd never figure out "there, their and they're".

I do understand that there are hate mongers that say "gay" with such hate and such evil, but that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about everyday use. Take the word "f-ing". This word has become seriously over used and way too popular. I truly wish everyone would just say "fucking" because that's what they mean. They don't mean "freaking" because that's just another censored version of "fucking".


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## mattofvengeance (Jan 14, 2010)

JJ Rodriguez said:


> Also, the more sausage jockeys there are in metal, the more pre-marital poon there is for the rest of us heathens.



Rep'd for brilliance.


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## Xiphos68 (Jan 14, 2010)

Ok everybody. I will only talk religous aspects if you ask me too and it's not that I choose this religion to have a religion. God called me and that's it. But I will refrain. Now the whole boob thread is completely disrespectful but ok.
As far as offending goes it is just the truth.
We can just stop talking now. But I will refrain and keep my signature and that's it.


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## Cheesebuiscut (Jan 14, 2010)

*sigh*


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## Scar Symmetry (Jan 14, 2010)

Xiphos68 said:


> Ok everybody. I will only talk religous aspects if you ask me too and it's not that I choose this religion to have a religion. God called me and that's it. But I will refrain. Now the whole boob thread is completely disrespectful but ok.
> As far as offending goes it is just the truth.
> We can just stop talking now. But I will refrain and keep my signature and that's it.



A little something to think about: "There is no truth, only a perspective"

Truth is a personal thing dude. You have yours, I have mine, everyone else has theirs. But what one person finds to be true others may find it to be false. If the Christian faith works for you then great, but please don't use it as an absolute when discussing matters such as this. Input your opinion - sure - but don't act like it's fact, as that will drive people away which I'm sure is the opposite of what you want.

Also the white part of your signature is very condescending dude  I know you're only doing what you think is right, but I think it's pretty patronising and I'm sure others too. Not having a go, just pointing it out.


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## Cheesebuiscut (Jan 14, 2010)

Don't waste your time dude, trying to talk sense into him will be as constructive as one of our arguments.


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## Scar Symmetry (Jan 14, 2010)

It's just a little friendly advice, that's all


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## Customisbetter (Jan 14, 2010)

god makes phone calls. 

I figured this thread would head in a religious direction, but I'm pleasantly surprised at the amount of restraint. great job guys, i think this thread will stay alive.


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## Xiphos68 (Jan 14, 2010)

Scar Symmetry said:


> A little something to think about: "There is no truth, only a perspective"
> 
> Truth is a personal thing dude. You have yours, I have mine, everyone else has theirs. But what one person finds to be true others may find it to be false. If the Christian faith works for you then great, but please don't use it as an absolute when discussing matters such as this. Input your opinion - sure - but don't act like it's fact, as that will drive people away which I'm sure is the opposite of what you want.
> 
> Also the white part of your signature is very condescending dude  I know you're only doing what you think is right, but I think it's pretty patronising and I'm sure others too. Not having a go, just pointing it out.


Scar I understand where your coming from. But my sig will stay. I'm not of high superiority. I was made to worship and witness to people about God and that is what I'm going to do. Acutally I'll take the white one down and show people I'm a servant of God by the way I act and not by what I say. But I'll keep the gold one.


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## Scar Symmetry (Jan 14, 2010)

Cheesebuiscut said:


> Don't waste your time dude, trying to talk sense into him will be as constructive as one of our arguments.





Xiphos68 said:


> Scar I understand where your coming from. But my sig will stay. I'm not of high superiority. I was made to worship and witness to people about God and that is what I'm going to do. Acutally I'll take the white one down and show people I'm a servant of God by the way I act and not by what I say. But I'll keep the gold one.



Cheese, you were saying? 

Thanks Hunter I appreciate that  I also repped you for being a good sport and for being respectful.


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## gunshow86de (Jan 14, 2010)

4 pages, and not one person has posted this?


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## Loomer (Jan 14, 2010)

gunshow86de said:


> 4 pages, and not one person has posted this?



You have a point, but only the Sean Reinert pic actually makes me wanna reconsider my sexuality.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 14, 2010)

Xiphos68 said:


> Two gay people that are "supposedly married." That's not marriage. Marriage is for only man and women. Not man and man nor woman or woman.
> 
> Besides my friend was surprised when I told him that and he was pretty sure he was married to a women and had a family.



Kid you're talking to a Satanist who's had more bible "training" than I care to even go over. Spare me the Sky Daddy logic because it ain't sticking here.

My point was that you can be married and still gay. There are several men who leave their wives after finally getting tired of living the lie. Anyone can get married, that doesn't prove anything. Gay men are well aware of that tired old coverup of "I'm not gay I have a woman" which usually is code for "I'll meet you at midnight and don't say a word about this"..Marriage ain't so "sanctified" these days now is it?


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## Xiphos68 (Jan 14, 2010)

Scar Symmetry said:


> Cheese, you were saying?
> 
> Thanks Hunter I appreciate that  I also repped you for being a good sport and for being respectful.


lol. Your welcome!



DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Kid you're talking to a Satanist who's had more bible "training" than I care to even go over. Spare me the Sky Daddy logic because it ain't sticking here.
> 
> My point was that you can be married and still gay. There are several men who leave their wives after finally getting tired of living the lie. Anyone can get married, that doesn't prove anything. Gay men are well aware of that tired old coverup of "I'm not gay I have a woman" which usually is code for "I'll meet you at midnight and don't say a word about this"..Marriage ain't so "sanctified" these days now is it?


I understand. But I take marriage only one way and that's Gods way and that's the way it was created. I'll leave like that and that is all I have to say. I'm done.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 14, 2010)

Xiphos68 said:


> I understand. But I take marriage only one way and that's Gods way and that's the way it was created. I'll leave like that and that is all I have to say. I'm done.



Once again you've missed the point entirely. We ARE talking about gay men who marry women and have children..not gay marriage.


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## Xiphos68 (Jan 14, 2010)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Once again you've missed the point entirely. We ARE talking about gay men who marry women and have children..not gay marriage.


I guess I missed something. lol. Sorry for mixing things up.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 14, 2010)

Xiphos68 said:


> I guess I missed something. lol. Sorry for mixing things up.



My point being that just because Paul is married and has kids (possibly), that doesn't mean that he isn't gay, or bi.


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## Xiphos68 (Jan 14, 2010)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> My point being that just because Paul is married and has kids (possibly), that doesn't mean that he isn't gay, or bi.


Gotcha


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## Customisbetter (Jan 14, 2010)

I hate to say this, but modern day marriage is a joke.

the number of marriages actually going until death is absurdly small. It has lost all of its meaning and as xiphos says, "sacristy". 

i kind of want to see a statistic on the ratio of gay marriages that succeed... maybe they do a bit better...


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## Cheesebuiscut (Jan 14, 2010)

Can we cut the religious nonsense? I am using all sorts of restrain to prevent myself from ranting about hunters religious bigotry.

Hunter if you want to make a religious propaganda thread in the off topic section or the lounge go for it but it has absolutely nothing to do with this thread.

PLZ stay even remotely on topic.


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## JohnIce (Jan 14, 2010)

As far as sexism goes, around my area girls who come to metal shows are totally welcomed (and totally hit on) by everybody, pretty much. I mean what's not to like about a girl who shares your taste in music? In such a male-dominated music scene, any girls are appreciated, if just for stirring in the cockfest a little.

It's hard to talk about homophobia when you're an 19-year old guy. Guys in that age are usually still full of hormones, ignorance and naïvity. On a not so related note, I have a non-metal friend who is gay as christmas and I've never seen anyone give him shit for it. And he's gay to the point that I sometimes get annoyed, it's like "dude, I have no problem with your sexuality, but do you have to be talking to me about gay sex and showing everyone pictures of naked men all the time?"

I don't have much metal credibility really, some people know me from playing in my old prog metal band and they tend to compliment my soloing skills and I'll get som cred that way, but after dropping off that band, I don't really get much anymore. I've stopped dressing metal in any way, cut my hair and don't do any of that macho stuff. When some über macho metalhead tries to out-man me I don't really bother with it, I get laid more than they do *shrugs*


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## Randy (Jan 14, 2010)

I know this thread's kinda gotten a bit off topic, but I wanted to mention one thing and that's all...

Of the Christians I'm friends with, only some of them consider homosexuality to be a sin. And even of those, they preach "not elevating one sin above another" so condemning somebody for being gay is just as bad as sending someone to hell for swearing. That's kinda what that whole "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" thing was all about... you know... the thing the guy with the beard and the robe said.

I only mention this cause Hunter's posts were starting to passive aggressively sound like condemnation of homosexuality, and I kinda felt a need to defend those of us that aren't insane. In my book, it doesn't make a difference. Different strokes for different folks.

On topic, I think the metal community has become more accepting of homosexuality. Going to a metal show and seeing "Metal just got gay" T-shirts and the like speak to that, IMO. A lot of the need to make it "us versus them" has been transferred to "genre vs. genre" hate. And just like homophobia, it's mostly carried out by bigoted knuckleheads that are more interested in fighting than just listening to some fucking music.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 14, 2010)

I get raped huh, bitches? Why don't you step on up and let's get with it then


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## Cheesebuiscut (Jan 14, 2010)

Lets do this!

I'll do to you what I did to konfyouzd in the chat room!


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## Customisbetter (Jan 14, 2010)

"drakkar gets raped" is an awfully odd tag for a thread filled with drakker pwnage.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 14, 2010)




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## Cheesebuiscut (Jan 14, 2010)

Customisbetter said:


> "drakkar gets raped" is an awfully odd tag for a thread filled with drakker pwnage.



Yeah I dont get it either.


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## S-O (Jan 14, 2010)

I got witnessed at work once. I was clearly busy, but the dude kept talking. He had a script memorized, had I been off the clock, I would have verbally owned him. He told me that accepting Jesus is not good enough to go to heaven, that I must blah blah blah.

<-- Atheist

Part of me loves the poor boy because we are all one, but I have no respect for his views, as they condemn innocent people to hell.


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## Customisbetter (Jan 14, 2010)

^Who cares what religion you are when you have a friggin Axe FX ultra...

wait... doesn't that make you a god?


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## Cheesebuiscut (Jan 14, 2010)

Actually god is hydrogen, because according to national geographic I think I was watching hydrogen had sex with some other chemicals which formed stars. and ipso facto stars basically formed everything else.

So theres your answer for creation.

THREAD IS ABOUT THE METAL SCENE BEING HOMOPHOBIC, 

metal, gay, not gay, kinda gay, we accept gay, etc.


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## EliNoPants (Jan 14, 2010)

do you think that if Johnny Depp started a metal band, there would be a whole crop of "confusing and strange new feelings for metal" popping up?

at the very least it would bring an army of cougars to metal shows i think


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## helly (Jan 15, 2010)

eleven59 said:


> This area is definitely a "-core" based scene, unfortunately, and that comes with a lot of "tough" guys. You basically have to develop a thick skin around here and realize that a lot of people are going to hate your band for no good reason



I feel like that's a pretty unfair stereotype. The entire local scene in the Chicago burbs is -core based, deathcore, hardcore, melodic/progressive hardcore and all other metal offshoots, but you see rarely any homophobia. Infact, the running joke is that sometime in the last 10 years, metal got gay, and the reason for it, is that it's hilarious.

Full frontal male nudity is funny, and most shows, hanging out with bands after, at some point balls get pulled out just because it's the funniest damn thing ever. Not to say male nudity is gay in and of itself, but in the presence of men almost exclusively, most of those macho homophobe guys would find it to be unacceptably gay. Sure, there are plenty of 'tough' guys in the scene here, lots of violence at shows and whatever else, but it's strictly related to the usual nu-metal kids who have terrible show etiquette and end up being disruptive until somebody decides to hit them. I don't know any dudes in the scene who are gay (AFAIK anyway), but I also don't know any who are outwardly homophobic, either. 

I'd say genre-wise, metal/hardcore kids seem to be the most tolerant. Of the ones I know, almost all of us are atheists, and completely tolerant of race, sexual preference, gender, and pretty much anything except stupidity. 

Personally, I find it pretty damn silly when you see the macho metal fucks this thread is about at shows or wherever else. 

EDIT: Amusing stereotype violating point of note, just for fun: the vocalist of my band happens to be a straight hair stylist.


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## Scar Symmetry (Jan 15, 2010)

Why is Hunter banned? 

I thought I'd defused the situation


----------



## Prydogga (Jan 15, 2010)

Maybe he's only banned to cool off, there has been alot of religious talk about from him. 

EDIT: Yep, he'll be back. 



> Xiphos68 - Note this is a freaking musicians forum dedicated to mainly 7s/ERGs and then our random OT shit but it's not a place dedicated to push religion or judge.
> 
> I'm a religious person myself but what you're doing right now is coming across as a dick trying to get people to conform to your opinions and set of beliefs. It's in this naivety that I can tell you are young and still not mature enough. If you knew this thread was NSFW and then it most likely goes against your beliefs then GTFO.
> 
> We've (mods) have noticed that you seem to go into a lot of threads and start your stuff about God/religion etc and the buck stops here. We'll all see you in 2 weeks. If you keep it up we'll prolly never see you again.


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## meisterjager (Jan 15, 2010)

drmosh said:


> in most cases it's people not thinking before they speak when they call something gay, it kinda pisses me off. Not because I am gay (my wife would be furious!  ), but because it's become such a blanket statement.
> In other cases it's people just being uneducated idiots


 
I can't say I agree with the last part - it's just a saying that's hard to shake, really. A lot of my friends are uber-intelligent.. scarily, infact.. but I think pretty much everyone I know calls stuff gay. It's not like saying 'hahaha, your new hat is homosexual', it's more like just saying it's lame. 

I'm pretty sure, 99% of the time, if someone calls something gay they're not thinking of docking or guys fucking bear-fucking eachother.


----------



## Loomer (Jan 15, 2010)

JohnIce said:


> As far as sexism goes, around my area girls who come to metal shows are totally welcomed (and totally hit on) by everybody, pretty much. I mean what's not to like about a girl who shares your taste in music? In such a male-dominated music scene, any girls are appreciated, if just for stirring in the cockfest a little.



Well, you're from Sweden anyways, and as we all know Swedish metal chicks are a fantastic thing indeed!



JohnIce said:


> On a not so related note, I have a non-metal friend who is gay as christmas and I've never seen anyone give him shit for it. And he's gay to the point that I sometimes get annoyed, it's like "dude, I have no problem with your sexuality, but do you have to be talking to me about gay sex and showing everyone pictures of naked men all the time?"



Maybe he's just closet straight, and overcompensating?


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## mattofvengeance (Jan 15, 2010)

Speaking of gay,


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## Randy (Jan 15, 2010)

Only half as gay as the extras from Stockholm Knockout with Alexi and Janne making out with eachother.


----------



## JohnIce (Jan 15, 2010)

Customisbetter said:


> ^Who cares what religion you are when you have a friggin Axe FX ultra...
> 
> wait... doesn't that make you a god?


 

*grabs suspenders with thumbs* 

I was a bit surprised to hear Paul M was gay, then again, he does look a whole lot like a certain figure in Brokeback Mountain:











There's no such thing as a coincidence, boys and girls!


----------



## Cheesebuiscut (Jan 15, 2010)




----------



## Loomer (Jan 15, 2010)

"I can't quit you! I'll carve out a space for this!"


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## Scar Symmetry (Jan 15, 2010)

JohnIce said:


> *grabs suspenders with thumbs*
> 
> I was a bit surprised to hear Paul M was gay, then again, he does look a whole lot like a certain figure in Brokeback Mountain:
> 
> ...



The Textures guitarist also looks like a certain figure in Brokeback Mountain


----------



## ArtDecade (Jan 15, 2010)

A discussion on metal and homophobia is never be complete without Brokeback Mountain reference.


----------



## Customisbetter (Jan 15, 2010)

Loomer said:


> "I can't quit you! I'll carve out a space for this!"



This statement made me laugh so hard, i spit on my monitor.


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## Loomer (Jan 15, 2010)

Thank you, that was very much my intention. Your monitor and I have a long-standing emnity


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## synrgy (Jan 15, 2010)

meisterjager said:


> It's not like saying 'hahaha, your new hat is homosexual', it's more like just saying it's lame.



This. Context is everything.

Recent episode of South Park dealt with the word 'fag'; how in the modern context it doesn't have anything to do with homosexuality. They decided that if it refers to anyone specifically, it would be obnoxious Harley Davidson riders.


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## JohnIce (Jan 16, 2010)

I prefer the term "homosexual" over "fag" or "gay". It sounds more sophisticated and brings me closer to my ultimate goal, which is to become Stewie Griffin.


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## Rick (Jan 16, 2010)

I hate when people use "gay" to mean something that they don't like. 

"Wow, that band's gay."


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## Customisbetter (Jan 16, 2010)

I'm offended when some describes something negative as "Lame".

I am proud to lame and that use of the term insults me!


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 16, 2010)

I'm insulted when opposites take HIGH offense to a comment that's not even about them. The straight people who have to be oh so anal (pardon the well intended pun) about people using derogatory words for gay people, or the white people who have to be extra offended at black jokes..I always see it as overcompensating for something. I'll know when to be offended..I don't need you to speak on my behalf as I'm more than capable of fending for myself.

I call stuff gay all the time, people whining about a word that doesn't concern them...now THAT is gay.


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## Adam Of Angels (Jan 16, 2010)

^Good post, Drakk

I've never had a single problem with homosexuals - then again, I like ALL kinds of people.. I get pissed when I'm around too similar of people all the time.. but anyway, I also call things "gay" all the time - like we've been saying, it seriously has nothing to do with homosexuality, but is more of a product of the society I grew up in.


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## HammerAndSickle (Jan 16, 2010)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> I'm insulted when opposites take HIGH offense to a comment that's not even about them. The straight people who have to be oh so anal (pardon the well intended pun) about people using derogatory words for gay people, or the white people who have to be extra offended at black jokes..I always see it as overcompensating for something. I'll know when to be offended..I don't need you to speak on my behalf as I'm more than capable of fending for myself.
> 
> I call stuff gay all the time, people whining about a word that doesn't concern them...now THAT is gay.



You know what I fucking hate? Gay


Spoiler



niggers


. That shit is so retarded, it's completely lame.


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## Adam Of Angels (Jan 16, 2010)

^Your user name doesn't lend to that being a good idea


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## MaxOfMetal (Jan 16, 2010)

HammerAndSickle said:


> You know what I fucking hate? Gay niggers. That shit is so retarded, it's completely lame.


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## Customisbetter (Jan 16, 2010)

^^^HEY!

No swearing. 

EDIT

ninja'd


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 17, 2010)

Lol..oh lord boy.._*please*_ change that before the banhammer comes down


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## EliNoPants (Jan 17, 2010)

wow, as much as i know we all get the joke, it's inevitable that SOMEONE will get their panties in a bunch over it, and you'll probably get a nasty banhammering, i'd change that shit asap duder


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## Scar Symmetry (Jan 17, 2010)

HammerAndSickle said:


> You know what I fucking hate? Gay niggers. That shit is so retarded, it's completely lame.


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## JohnIce (Jan 17, 2010)

I can see Drakk's point that you shouldn't be offended on behalf of others. However, my bass player is black, my sister's boyfriend is an immigrant, many of my friends are black, asian, indian etc., so if some idiot comes with racial slurs when I'm around I don't take it lightly. If someone insults one of my white friends I'll be pissed off, so if someone insults one of my black friends I'm not gonna drop it just because it's racially oriented and thereby not concerning me.

I don't think this is what Drakk was talking about, but when people come with racist comments, I take t as an insult to my close friends and thus an insult to me, as I chose to be with those friends.


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## Customisbetter (Jan 17, 2010)

My god this thread will never die.


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## Rick (Jan 17, 2010)

JohnIce said:


> I don't think this is what Drakk was talking about, but when people come with racist comments, I take t as an insult to my close friends and thus an insult to me, as I chose to be with those friends.



That's where I was coming from.


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## t o k u g a w a (Jan 18, 2010)

Fzau said:


> Want big and epic sounding metal?
> 
> www.myspace.com/tracesmetal here you go



Thanks for that. 

I've read through this thread in its entirety, and I have nothing to add that hasn't already been said. 

There have been many well spoken posts. I'm glad to see that we have intelligent people on this board.


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## SnowfaLL (Jan 18, 2010)

yeh if theres one thing that really pisses me off, is when you are with some idiot kids who think saying the N word is ok because they hear it in rap videos, or even if they say it as a joke.. like calling someone that when theres no black people around, thinking since no one is around but white people, no one will get offended..

Or the worst, when you are playing games online either thru Xbox/PS3 or computer, and idiot kids keep using the N word.. I wish they had the balls to say it infront of a black person in real life face to face, and get their ass beat.


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## eleven59 (Jan 18, 2010)

NickCormier said:


> yeh if theres one thing that really pisses me off, is when you are with some idiot kids who think saying the N word is ok because they hear it in rap videos, or even if they say it as a joke.. like calling someone that when theres no black people around, thinking since no one is around but white people, no one will get offended..
> 
> Or the worst, when you are playing games online either thru Xbox/PS3 or computer, and idiot kids keep using the N word.. I wish they had the balls to say it infront of a black person in real life face to face, and get their ass beat.



Yeah, I see a lot of this, and a lot of the time, it seems like they're actually kind of racist and are just testing the waters to see who's going to agree with them.


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## Cheesebuiscut (Jan 18, 2010)




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## stuz719 (Jan 18, 2010)

Customisbetter said:


> My god this thread will never die.



It will when people start talking about the homoerotecism of metal (cf. Manowar's stage outfits, the feminine overtones of having long hair, the focus on "brotherhood" and fraternity such as focussing on martial themes, and celebrating the exclusion of what may be seen as more feminine or "emotional" traits).


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## Loomer (Jan 18, 2010)

stuz719 said:


> It will when people start talking about the homoerotecism of metal (cf. Manowar's stage outfits, the feminine overtones of having long hair, the focus on "brotherhood" and fraternity such as focussing on martial themes, and celebrating the exclusion of what may be seen as more feminine or "emotional" traits).



And the fact that a guitar always represents a BIG FAT COCK


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## Customisbetter (Jan 18, 2010)

^I always thought it was an Axe... 

maybe it differs between different genres of Metal?


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## JohnIce (Jan 18, 2010)

This explains why I always feel uncomfortable playing next to an upright bass...


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 18, 2010)

I'll just state for the record that I find metalheads attractive...well sometimes.


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## Sang-Drax (Jan 18, 2010)

Gay people break paradigms, and for that alone I fully support the notion.

Plus, the more gay men around, the lower the competition. 

Lesbianism should be highly discouraged, though


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## JJ Rodriguez (Jan 18, 2010)

I make gay, black, jewish, and all sorts of jokes all the time. I just don't give a fuck, and if I know someone I'll even make the jokes in front of them that make fun of whatever group it is they happen to be from


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 18, 2010)

Sang-Drax said:


> Gay people break paradigms, and for that alone I fully support the notion.
> 
> Plus, the more gay men around, the lower the competition.



Not all the time. I've been known to cock block rather effectively when I feel like being an ass. Hell, there have been times I've hit on the hottest chick in the room and pulled her just so the other fools staring wouldn't get a chance. I do have the advantage in that sort of thing


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## JohnIce (Jan 18, 2010)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Not all the time. I've been known to cock block rather effectively when I feel like being an ass. Hell, there have been times I've hit on the hottest chick in the room and pulled her just so the other fools staring wouldn't get a chance. I do have the advantage in that sort of thing


 
I've been asked to do that a few times too... one thing men often fail to realize, is that being a hot girl in a bar full of horny drunk men isn't always that much fun. It wasn't until I got a full-time girlfriend that I realized just how annoying many guys are when they're trying to pick up girls. And you wouldn't even believe the text messages she gets from some dudes  It's a bad combination of tactlessness and persistance. I almost feel ashamed on their behalf sometimes.


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## eleven59 (Jan 18, 2010)

JJ Rodriguez said:


> I make gay, black, jewish, and all sorts of jokes all the time. I just don't give a fuck, and if I know someone I'll even make the jokes in front of them that make fun of whatever group it is they happen to be from



See, that's the difference, I'd have no problem with that from you, because I'd know you don't really believe any of the shit you're joking about. (God, I hope not, anyways  )

The ones I have a problem with is the guys that make jokes only when no one's around that might get offended, and the jokes aren't really funny, so they're more so just statements, and they're obviously hoping someone's going to agree with them, so they can go be racist/sexist/whatever together. Or the ones that do it only for the shock value, without actually being clever or funny.


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## stryker1800 (Jan 18, 2010)

my thing on about making certain kinds of jokes when no one is around, I'm one of those people who makes terrible racist and otherwise distasteful jokes when only my friends are around, but i don't do it because I'm scared i do it because it's even more distasteful to make jokes around people that you don't know how they'll take the joke. 

I have been in a few fights and arguments for misuse of terms like ...... and other such obscenities. I apologize if my actually using the word offended someone but I believe we shouldn't be afraid of using a word when used in the proper context


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## Rick (Jan 18, 2010)

eleven59 said:


> See, that's the difference, I'd have no problem with that from you, because I'd know you don't really believe any of the shit you're joking about. (God, I hope not, anyways  )
> 
> The ones I have a problem with is the guys that make jokes only when no one's around that might get offended, and the jokes aren't really funny, so they're more so just statements, and they're obviously hoping someone's going to agree with them, so they can go be racist/sexist/whatever together. Or the ones that do it only for the shock value, without actually being clever or funny.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 18, 2010)

stryker1800 said:


> I believe we shouldn't be afraid of using a word when used in the proper context



I believe I should be able to sit in on a skinhead convention and leave with as much life as I came in with..but things don't exactly work that way. That "words are words" thing always bothers me. You have some people who feel they should be able to use certain offensive words, and my question is always, why? Why do you want to say that word so badly? Why is it even part of your vocabulary?


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## stryker1800 (Jan 18, 2010)

Well depending on the kind of skinheads you're talking about you would be completely safe, but more on point i didn't necessarily say i just want to be able to randomly throw out the word in day to day conversation, but we should be able to openly use particular words when discussing social issues such as racism and homophobia, if such a taboo word existed, without fear of people lashing out at you.

My point is if I'm using a word in an intelligent context why should i be afraid of using it because of it's history.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 18, 2010)

stryker1800 said:


> Well depending on the kind of skinheads you're talking about you would be completely safe, but more on point i didn't necessarily say i just want to be able to randomly throw out the word in day to day conversation, but we should be able to openly use particular words when discussing social issues such as racism and homophobia, if such a taboo word existed, without fear of people lashing out at you.
> 
> My point is if I'm using a word in an intelligent context why should i be afraid of using it because of it's history.



Why would you want to? Now obviously if you're saying it regarding something with sense, fine. But to refer to a group of people by that word, singing the word in a song, etc..that's something you just don't need to do, ESPECIALLY if you know there will be problems. Just don't say it. That goes for any word. It shouldn't be such a part of your vocabulary that you have to fight for the right to use such a word..what the hell is such a battle for? What would you win exactly?


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## JohnIce (Jan 18, 2010)

stryker1800 said:


> My point is if I'm using a word in an intelligent context why should i be afraid of using it because of it's history.


 
Many words have gone forgotten over the years. If no-one uses a word, it loses its meaning and people forget what it means. By using a word such as "the n-word", in any context be it common or intelligent, gives the word staying power. Why would anyone want to use that word in an "intelligent" context when it's just a direct substitute for "black".

I don't see your point.


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## wannabguitarist (Jan 18, 2010)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Not all the time. I've been known to cock block rather effectively when I feel like being an ass. Hell, there have been times I've hit on the hottest chick in the room and pulled her just so the other fools staring wouldn't get a chance. I do have the advantage in that sort of thing



Getting cock-blocked by a gay dude is a extremely humiliating yet extremely entertaining experience


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## Rick (Jan 18, 2010)

^


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 18, 2010)

wannabguitarist said:


> Getting cock-blocked by a gay dude is a extremely humiliating yet extremely entertaining experience



This is WHY I do it. Sometimes bitches have to be reminded that I'm the H.N.I.C. gay or not.


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## Sang-Drax (Jan 18, 2010)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Not all the time. I've been known to cock block rather effectively when I feel like being an ass. Hell, there have been times I've hit on the hottest chick in the room and pulled her just so the other fools staring wouldn't get a chance. I do have the advantage in that sort of thing



Does that make you a male lesbian, then?


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## Rick (Jan 18, 2010)

stryker1800 said:


> My point is if I'm using a word in an intelligent context why should i be afraid of using it because of it's history.



I would LOVE to hear using the n-word (I'm assuming that's what's being talked about here) in an "intelligent context."


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 18, 2010)

Rick said:


> I would LOVE to hear using the n-word (I'm assuming that's what's being talked about here) in an "intelligent context."



Replacing "the n-word" in the sentence you just said with the actual word..that'd be about it. Just referring to the word itself. Using it the way it was intended..nope..no intelligent way to use that.


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## Rick (Jan 18, 2010)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Replacing "the n-word" in the sentence you just said with the actual word..that'd be about it. Just referring to the word itself. Using it the way it was intended..nope..no intelligent way to use that.





Exactly. There is no intelligent way no matter what.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 18, 2010)

Speaking of racism..you know I STILL can't give rep to Konfyouzd? It won't let me. I can rep everyone else but him.


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## eaeolian (Jan 18, 2010)

Nothing good will come of this.


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