# Krank: Difference between Revolution & Krankenstein?



## zimbloth (Feb 21, 2006)

Does anyone know what the tangible differences between the Krank Revolution head and the Krankenstein, other than the Dimebag name? I've been thinking about buying one of these, they appear to be the same thing, but the Revolution is cheaper.

Anyone who can help me out? 

Are these even good or just overrated hype? Seems like everyones playing these nowadays. Even diehard Peavey and Mesa players.


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## eaeolian (Feb 21, 2006)

Everyone's playing them because they're endorsing everyone. *Qualifier* I have yet to play through one myself *end qualifier*, but many people I know and trust say they flat-out sound like ass. I very definitely get the feeling the endorsers don't get the same ones you buy.


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## noodles (Feb 21, 2006)

Yeah, I know the difference. One is crap, the other is crap with someone's name on it.

Seriously. Don't waste your time. Neither of them could hold a candle to a Peavey XXX, and that amp has basicly one useable channel. Mesas, of course, completely blow them out of the water. I think I plugged them into every cab that Chuck Levin's had (Marshall, Peavey, Bogner, H&K, Diezel, Mesa), and they sounded like ass through every single one.

For the money, I would buy a 5150, hands down. Krank is the endorsement whore company, handing them out to anyone who will appear in an ad. I saw the side of the sde stage at Ozzfest, and not a single one of those bands was actually using the Kranks they had out front. Some didn't hide it well at all (Trivium, who had their Marshalls in plain view beside the dummy Kranks that didn't even have lights glowing), and some took great pains to keep them from view (Soilwork, who had their 5150s behind the dummy stacks, with guitar cases stacked in front of them, visable barely from only one spot). When several bands in a row have the same exact backline, I go hunting for good viewing angles to the backstage area, because you're not fooling me.


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## zimbloth (Feb 21, 2006)

Thanks for the input guys.

The only thing is, Andy Sneap was using them on the new Nevermore and Arch Enemy record, and I thought they sounded great. The new Fear Factory also was recorded with them, and although I think their new album sucks, the tone is kind of cool. I've also seen some of these guys playing them live. Are you saying Jeff Loomis has Krank props live and he's really using a Dual Rec or Triple XXX or something?

I don't understand why all of these people would claim they're so great if they suck so bad. Weren't they endorsed by Peavey/Mesa beforehand? Did Krank just offer them more money or something?

I don't know.... I believe you guys, and I definitely won't be buying one now unless I play it first. It just seems odd that Andy Sneap and several of my favorite guitarists would rave about them if they sucked. 

Shrug. As for the Mesas and 5150s, etc, I'm already fully aware of their merits and I've had several of them before. I just thought maybe this amp was something special too. 

I guess not.

Thanks again for your response. Noodles that's some great info right there about the dummy stacks, what a joke. Who knew some of my fav guitarists who I admire so much were posers. I guess Guitar World and all the other rave reviews were bullshit too. 

Another oddity: ZERO Harmony Central user reviews. How is that possible? I've seen the most obsolete shit ever reviewed there.


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## Shikaru (Feb 21, 2006)

zimbloth said:


> Another oddity: ZERO Harmony Central user reviews. How is that possible? I've seen the most obsolete shit ever reviewed there.



I could be wrong, but wasn't there a big fuss at HC a while ago because Krank employees had been posting raving reviews about the amps there? I'm guessing if that's the case, that they cleared all the previous reviews.


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## goth_fiend (Feb 21, 2006)

that is exactly what happened, krank was posting reviews for their own stuff and they got caught, I have never played one personally but again I have heard nothing but bad things about them, sorry I would rather have a bogner or engl anyway


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## zimbloth (Feb 21, 2006)

Wow. This is amazing to me. Great stuff guys, thanks.

Basically I'm looking for another tube head just for the sake of variety. I'm thinking about either:

Mesa Single Rectifier (Regular or Trem-O-Verb [any diff other than reverb here?]), Mesa Recording Pre-Amp, Marshall DSL100 (sometimes these sound awful, sometimes these sound amazing, I used to have one that sounded amazing but it was too loud for what I needed it for at the time), Peavey XXX/JSX.6505/6505+, Mesa DC-5 Head or a Marshall JMP-1 Pre.

Right now I have a Peavey Ultra Plus, Laney GH50L, Mesa Studio .22+ and a Dual Rectifier (2 channel).


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## David (Feb 21, 2006)

the guys from shadows fall now use krank right? Well there have been excessive rumors that they've stuck with their Marshall amps.

I think Krank's sound like shit, very slow and unclear.

A lot of people don't actually use the amps that they have on stage, or they use a different one, and put the same grill and cloth on it as another the brand they're endorsed by. Steve Vai, uses his Bogner amplifiers quite a lot, even though he has tons of his Legacy's up all over the place. The fact is, those legacy's just can't match up.


and zimbloth... don't choose off of what others sound like. Choose off of what YOUR sound is. I'm gonna be playing through a Carvin TS100 and a Line 6 cab... something you don't see anyone playing... because that's the sound I'm going for, and it's my original tone that fits me. If what you're going for... is to sound like Nevermore... then please do go buy it, haha, but I strongly suggest finding your own in it.



We could also use the arguement of "this person uses it so it must be good," for ALL Marshall's and ALL Gibson guitars. I bought a Gibson LP Studio when I was into Slash, Randy Rhodes, Zakk Wylde, Jimmy Page, Angus Young, etc... and I was like, I don't care! They use it! it must be the BEST!!!! Well Gibsons are complete crap all around and like 1 in 5 Marshall's are a jem.

oh, and zimbloth, I'm not trying to bust your chops, just trying to give some tough love... I WASTED nearly $1000 on gear that I really could have used towards other things... a car... investing... etc, and now I'm seeing the reprocussions of it. If I can stop someone from making a bad gear choice, and save them money, it's worth it, even if I have to sound like a total ass.


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## Dylan7620 (Feb 21, 2006)

the krankenstein has a bit more gain. thats it. save yourself some bucks and grab a metal zone if you want that tone.

the tremoverb has reverb & tremolo (and its a 100w dual recto with a good clean channel, the rectoverb is the 50w single recto with just reverb.) 

im a mesa guy. i see you have both a 2 channel recto and a .22+ so you know both types of brutal mesa distortion.and you have an ultra lead plus. i say go for some sort of marshall to add a new flavor in your stable. JCM 900 SL-X? perhaps, i'd recommend this over a JCM 2000. cheaper too.


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## Donnie (Feb 21, 2006)

I've played around a bit on the Krank Revolution head and the Krankenstein. The Revolution was very bland and average sounding. The Krankenstein was very thin and fizzy sounding. I couldn't get into either. Plus, I've also heard that they are very unreliable.


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## DSS3 (Feb 21, 2006)

No offense guys, but most of you are out of your damn minds.


I've played the Revolution extensively, it's like a different 5150. Definately a cool amp, though.

One thing you need to do is use an OD infront, and not use the Krank Cabinets, however.

If you have an Ultra Plus, Recto, .22+, and a Laney already, I say get something like a Splawn or VHT.



Also, if you want to hear the Krank alone, Andy Sneap has samples here:

http://www.audiostreet.net/sneapsamplemp3s

and in the title track of This Godless Endeavour, when Jeff plays the verse riff alone (Jeff plays the right side, Steve plays the left), that's all Krank.


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## Shannon (Feb 21, 2006)

Donnie said:


> I've played around a bit on the Krank Revolution head and the Krankenstein. The Revolution was very bland and average sounding. The Krankenstein was very thin and fizzy sounding. I couldn't get into either.


My thoughts exactly.


Donnie said:


> Plus, I've also heard that they are very unreliable.


Yep. My friend in the band, MANNTIS, got endorsed with Krank. Within 2 months, he had TWO Krankensteins crap out. At the last show I played with them, the Krank fried and he played through a Marshall MG head to get through the show. For $1700, they should be WAY more reliable. So in 2 words....Fuck Krank. I can go way more in depth about it, but I'll leave it at that.


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## Donnie (Feb 21, 2006)

DSS3 said:


> Also, if you want to hear the Krank alone, Andy Sneap has samples here:
> 
> http://www.audiostreet.net/sneapsamplemp3s


Sounds like your average amp to me. You can achive that sound with most any amp for way less $$$. Just my opinion. Not trying to be a jerk or anything.


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## The Dark Wolf (Feb 21, 2006)

DSS3 said:


> and in the title track of This Godless Endeavour, when Jeff plays the verse riff alone (Jeff plays the right side, Steve plays the left), that's all Krank.


That's one of the most awesome, amazing rhythm tones I've ever heard. 

But! The part where the verse riff is played alone (2:23) is on the LEFT side, not the right...? Is that the part you meant?

EDIT - the Krank in that sample sounded kinda like a 5150 to me. I love the Jeff Loomis sound... in fact, I can't say that enough. That guy's tone is orgasmic to me... but I agree with Donnie here. The Kranks just sounded so-so in those samples. A bit "thin and fizzy' I guess is apt, although they fit in the mix pretty well.


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## Shannon (Feb 21, 2006)

It's a mix of Krank and Peavey XXX. There's an "in the studio with nevermore" mpeg floating around showing this.


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## zimbloth (Feb 21, 2006)

David said:


> and zimbloth... don't choose off of what others sound like. Choose off of what YOUR sound is. I'm gonna be playing through a Carvin TS100 and a Line 6 cab... something you don't see anyone playing... because that's the sound I'm going for, and it's my original tone that fits me. If what you're going for... is to sound like Nevermore... then please do go buy it, haha, but I strongly suggest finding your own in it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This was a serious waste of time for you to say all that. I've never tried to emulate anyone else's sound. I'm not a newbie man. I've never known anyone else in the universe whose main amps were a Peavey Ultra Plus thru a Mesa 4x12. I've had a plethora of tube amps, Marshalls Mesa Laney Peavey H&K, etc.

I agree I hate Gibsons and most Marshalls. I simply brought up Arch Enemy and Nevermore because they are some of my favorite guitarists and their sound is killer. No matter what amp I play through it still sounds like ME, but it can't hurt to be interested in an amp that (supposedly) is prevalent on some of my favorite records of the last year. The tone on "Doomsday Machine" is one of my favorites of all-time....I just thought if I could get that sound and then use it with my unique style it could yield sweet results, but I guess Kranks suck or whatever, shrug.

I'm always on the quest to find better tone, eventhough I think the tone I have now sounds better (to me) than really anything else I've ever heard...I'm a perfectionist.

Anyways thanks for all the info on the Krank, I still wouldn't mind finding out for myself by trying one out sometime, but now I definitely won't buy one blind.

Frankly I can't afford a VHT or Bogner right now, the most I want to spend right now is about $1200. That could land be basically any Mesa Marshall or Peavey, but it's hard to find a nice Bogner VHT etc for those prices.


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## DSS3 (Feb 21, 2006)

The Dark Wolf said:


> That's one of the most awesome, amazing rhythm tones I've ever heard.
> 
> But! The part where the verse riff is played alone (2:23) is on the LEFT side, not the right...? Is that the part you meant?
> 
> EDIT - the Krank in that sample sounded kinda like a 5150 to me. I love the Jeff Loomis sound... in fact, I can't say that enough. That guy's tone is orgasmic to me... but I agree with Donnie here. The Kranks just sounded so-so in those samples. A bit "thin and fizzy' I guess is apt, although they fit in the mix pretty well.




That was my fault, Jeff is on the left, steve is on the right.



Shannon said:


> It's a mix of Krank and Peavey XXX. There's an "in the studio with nevermore" mpeg floating around showing this.




No actually, that's just what Jeff used for the pre-production. The actual album was recorded with a mix of 96 Mesa Dual Racktifier and Krank Revolution 1, through a Boogie cabinet.


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## Jerich (Feb 21, 2006)

yeah !! for the money KRANK seems a little far fetched...I just ordered a DIEZEL VH4S and I have a ENGL powerball..so after trying out all KRANK had to offer..I came to the same conclusion..they add something to Endorsee's amps!!!...the KRANKinstien has more mid gain....and a larger cost!! you all forgot to mention that!!...KRANK is too new and really have not re-invented the wheel for many of us to even care! I also Heard/know about the burn outs they seem to have quickly...sounds like KRANK need to go back to the Drawing board!


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## zimbloth (Feb 21, 2006)

Those older Rectos are SO much better. The two channel ones, with the green chanel distortion in there "variable high gain", sounded amazing. Mine is a 1994 one I think. Whenever I've played a Recto at GC in the last 5 years they've all sounded like ass.


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## Jerich (Feb 21, 2006)

Try...Hughes & Kettners Tri amp...now that's an AMP!!!

Stephan Forte' used and approved....


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## zimbloth (Feb 21, 2006)

Mesa DC-5 Head: Thoughts?



Jerich said:


> Try...Hughes & Kettners Tri amp...now that's an AMP!!!
> 
> Stephan Forte' used and approved....



I've never tried one of those.


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## nyck (Feb 21, 2006)

Off topic, but could you write a review of the Mesa Studio .22, zimbloth? Comparing it to a .50 Caliber+? 



You might want to look into starting a rack setup for a different sound.


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## zimbloth (Feb 21, 2006)

nyck said:


> Off topic, but could you write a review of the Mesa Studio .22, zimbloth? Comparing it to a .50 Caliber+?
> 
> 
> 
> You might want to look into starting a rack setup for a different sound.



Sure I can do that. 

As for the rack setup, I have thought about that. I've been thinking about a Marshall JMP-1 or a Triaxis (or the Recto Pre). The cheap Mesa Studio Pres are great too but I already have the .22+ which is very similar. I've had some mixed results with rack setups. This summer I had a Mesa Recto Pre running into a 20/20 and a 50/50. The 20/20 was great (JJ EL84 tubes = unholy), but with the 50/50 it was fairly horrible at loud volumes.


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## nyck (Feb 21, 2006)

zimbloth said:


> Sure I can do that.
> 
> As for the rack setup, I have thought about that. I've been thinking about a Marshall JMP-1 or a Triaxis (or the Recto Pre). The cheap Mesa Studio Pres are great too but I already have the .22+ which is very similar. I've had some mixed results with rack setups. This summer I had a Mesa Recto Pre running into a 20/20 and a 50/50. The 20/20 was great (JJ EL84 tubes = unholy), but with the 50/50 it was fairly horrible at loud volumes.


Awesome thanks. 


Have you tried a Madison Divinity? They sound similar to Mesa Rectos, so you might not want another sound like that.


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## zimbloth (Feb 21, 2006)

Nope, never heard of those. I'm not a huge Recto fan, I definitely prefer the older Mesa models from the 80s such as the Calibers, Studios, etc. But, a lot of bands get really great sounds from them. I've played through dozens of Rectos over the years, and most of them have sounded bad. The only ones that sounded good were a '94 Dual Rec and a Rackmount Dual Rec which Jon from DIECAST has in his rehearsal space.

I think in many ways Rectifiers have sexy qualities, and I always find myself being lured back in to using them but in the end I usually revert to my other Mesas, Peaveys or Laneys.

That being said, I am itching to try a Single Rec with JJ 6L6s in EL34 mode so its biased hotter.


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## nyck (Feb 21, 2006)

zimbloth said:


> Nope, never heard of those. I'm not a huge Recto fan, I definitely prefer the older Mesa models from the 80s such as the Calibers, Studios, etc. But, a lot of bands get really great sounds from them. I've played through dozens of Rectos over the years, and most of them have sounded bad. The only ones that sounded good were a '94 Dual Rec and a Rackmount Dual Rec which Jon from DIECAST has in his rehearsal space.
> 
> I think in many ways Rectifiers have sexy qualities, and I always find myself being lured back in to using them but in the end I usually revert to my other Mesas, Peaveys or Laneys.
> 
> That being said, I am itching to try a Single Rec with JJ 6L6s in EL34 mode so its biased hotter.


Ah I see. I'm not a huge fan of the recto sound myself. I'm kindaw out of suggestions lol. Maybe you could go into Engl/Diezel territory.


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## David (Feb 21, 2006)

zimbloth said:


> This was a serious waste of time for you to say all that. I've never tried to emulate anyone else's sound. I'm not a newbie man. I've never known anyone else in the universe whose main amps were a Peavey Ultra Plus thru a Mesa 4x12. I've had a plethora of tube amps, Marshalls Mesa Laney Peavey H&K, etc.



haha, like 5 minutes after I wrote my reply, I saw all your gear. 

Just ignore my post... lol.


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## zimbloth (Feb 21, 2006)

It's okay though, it annoys me to no end to constantly see 99% of guys out there just trying to emulate others. There's two groups of people. There's the newbie who thinks Kirk Hammett is a good musician who comes in and plays Fade to Black on a shitty Crate solid-state amp and worships Metallica. Then there's the pseudo-experienced guy who comes in and MUST play a PRS through a Triple Recto, despite the fact PRS are 10x overpriced and are mediocre as they come...and despite the fact they'll never come close to needing a Triple Recto. Every single alternative rock guitarist I see in Massachussetts has a PRS/Mesa.

So yeah I understand why you said what you did. But yeah, way ahead of ya


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## David (Feb 21, 2006)

btw man, what do you do for a job? You must make a SHITLOAD of money, or just really know how to manage it well.

[action=David]grabs a notepad to take tips[/action]


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## zimbloth (Feb 21, 2006)

David said:


> btw man, what do you do for a job? You must make a SHITLOAD of money, or just really know how to manage it well.
> 
> [action=David]grabs a notepad to take tips[/action]




Are you kidding? I'm a disgrace with money. I spend all my money on gear. I have like no savings. I do work at a college but only part time. The majority of money I get is from selling things on eBay. Either selling one of my beloved guitars to get something I like even more, or sometimes I'll find a really good deal on something and I sell it for more than I paid.

For example, I bought a Parker Deluxe used from GC for $750. Then another one on eBay for $900. These guitars cost $2299.99 new. I sold one for $1400 and the other for $1500. That left me with quite a bit left over. I took the money from those two guitars and purchased my Universe and K7 ($1100 each) and obviously have money left over.

Another time I purchased a USA Custom Schecter Sunset 7 from a guy on Craigslist for $350. I then sold it on eBay for $900-950 or so. I just get lucky sometimes. But usually I just recycle my own gear to get new things. I don't have a lot of guitars anymore or anything.

When it's all set and done though, I'm just a poor college student with an expensive passion.


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## DSS3 (Feb 21, 2006)

I don't dislike the new Mesa's at all, actually. They have more grind up top, but that can be a good thing. I think if you're setting the two up identically, the new ones will sound worse, for sure.

I also don't really like Mesa cabinets at all. What cabinet are you running right now?


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## David (Feb 21, 2006)

nice man, now go use some of that money to buy a mic or a video camera!

if of course... you don't already have one...


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## zimbloth (Feb 21, 2006)

DSS3 said:


> I don't dislike the new Mesa's at all, actually. They have more grind up top, but that can be a good thing. I think if you're setting the two up identically, the new ones will sound worse, for sure.
> 
> I also don't really like Mesa cabinets at all. What cabinet are you running right now?



I'll have to disagree based on my own experiences. I don't hear grind as much as fizz and a thin sound. But, newer Mesas can be inconsistent...so perhaps I've played a lot of bad ones and you've played a good one.

I used the oversized Mesa 4x12 cabinet with my heads. I have a Mesa 2x12 cabinet that I use in conjunction with my Mesa .22+ combo, a nice combination with the Black Shadow built-in speaker actually. Same cabs I've had for 6-7 years.



David said:


> nice man, now go use some of that money to buy a mic or a video camera!
> 
> if of course... you don't already have one...



What do you mean? I have a mic and a video camera I suppose. I have stuff recorded, but right now I'm working hard on my new bands debut project. As for videos, I have a joke video I recorded for a College assignment of me shredding on an ESP Viper Baritone I used to own, while wearing a 'Scream' mask. Long story there.

....


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## nyck (Feb 21, 2006)

zimbloth said:


> I'll have to disagree based on my own experiences. I don't hear grind as much as fizz and a thin sound. But, newer Mesas can be inconsistent...so perhaps I've played a lot of bad ones and you've played a good one.
> 
> I used the oversized Mesa 4x12 cabinet with my heads. I have a Mesa 2x12 cabinet that I use in conjunction with my Mesa .22+ combo, a nice combination with the Black Shadow built-in speaker actually. Same cabs I've had for 6-7 years.
> 
> ...


"As for videos, I have a joke video I recorded for a College Project of me shredding on an ESP Viper Baritone while wearing a 'Scream' mask. Long story there."

That sounds badass! 


Got any clips of your Studio .22?


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## zimbloth (Feb 21, 2006)

Yeah it was kinda funny. One of those spontaneous "had to be there" kind of things. I kind of miss that ESP Viper Baritone actually. The EMG 81s sounded cool through my Peavey. 

As for clips of my Studio .22, yes... I recorded some half-ass "scratch tracks" for the aforementioned project I'm working on with the .22+. The "real" guitars are going to be recorded with different amps, but they still sound fairly decent considering it was just a SM57 stuck in front of the .22+ at low volumes, not even pushed.

Unfortunately the computer where those files are located currently resides at the studio, but I can try to post one for you. The .22+ is TREMENDOUS for metal (obviously great for rock and anything else too).


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## nyck (Feb 21, 2006)

Ah cool then. I'm kinda leaning towards the .50 Caliber over the .22. Is there any real sound difference?


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## David (Feb 21, 2006)

hahahahha, awesome! Post them man!


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## zimbloth (Feb 21, 2006)

Yeah. The .50 is a lot rounder sounding, smoother, 6L6s. The .22+ has EL84 tubes which are really tight and crisp sounding. There's plenty of bass, but the tone is more aggressive and heavy. I also think the .22+ is extremely loud for being 22 watts. It is louder than say, a Blue Voodoo 120w head haha. Really great for recording as you can push the tubes at a managable level. The .50 Caliber is superb as well, and has the advantage of having the EQ option. I just think the .50 Caliber is just a bit too creamy and smooth, not the same amount of crunch, bite and sizzle as the .22+


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## nyck (Feb 21, 2006)

I think I like a smoother sounding amp more. Meshuggah used .50 cals on their None album and I really like the tight rhythm sound they get out of it. The lead sounds are also incredible. None of my stores nearby have older Mesas, so I can't try them out. I gotta rely on reviews and soundclips 

I have a soundclip of the .22 and I really like the sound. It was kinda tight, focused and had this uniqueness to it that I really liked. The soundclip was recorded with a cheap mic though, but it still sounded pretty good and clear.


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## zimbloth (Feb 21, 2006)

nyck said:


> I think I like a smoother sounding amp more. Meshuggah used .50 cals on their None album and I really like the tight rhythm sound they get out of it. The lead sounds are also incredible. None of my stores nearby have older Mesas, so I can't try them out. I gotta rely on reviews and soundclips
> 
> I have a soundclip of the .22 and I really like the sound. It was kinda tight, focused and had this uniqueness to it that I really liked. The soundclip was recorded with a cheap mic though, but it still sounded pretty good and clear.



Im pretty sure Meshuggah didn't use a .50 caliber on None. I'm almost certain it was Marshal Valvestates or something. Their tone on those albums are terrible I think and sound nothing like a Mesa tube amp to my ears. Now, on CHAOSPHERE you can clearly hear that Mesa tone on all its glory.

Anyways, yeah smooth is nice for lead playing, but not when you want crisp attack on low notes or sharp palmmutes. The .50 is AMAZING, but i just love those EL84 tubes


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## nyck (Feb 21, 2006)

zimbloth said:


> Im pretty sure Meshuggah didn't use a .50 caliber on None. I'm almost certain it was Marshal Valvestates or something. Their tone on those albums are terrible I think and sound nothing like a Mesa tube amp to my ears. Now, on CHAOSPHERE you can clearly hear that Mesa tone on all its glory.
> 
> Anyways, yeah smooth is nice for lead playing, but not when you want crisp attack on low notes or sharp palmmutes. The .50 is AMAZING, but i just love those EL84 tubes


Well that's what I heard over at the Meshuggah forums. 

I'm also listening to Sol Niger Within, which was recorded with a .50 Caliber. I know this for sure. I really like the rhythm/lead tones coming out of it.

I think I might have seen a EL84 driven .50 Caliber....

That double merging feature is really nice!


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## LordOVchaoS (Feb 21, 2006)

zimbloth said:


> Basically I'm looking for another tube head just for the sake of variety. I'm thinking about either:



[action=LordOVchaoS]thinks zimbloth should buy a Madison [/action]


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## zimbloth (Feb 21, 2006)

nyck said:


> Well that's what I heard over at the Meshuggah forums.
> 
> I'm also listening to Sol Niger Within, which was recorded with a .50 Caliber. I know this for sure. I really like the rhythm/lead tones coming out of it.
> 
> ...



no 50 calibers have el84s...those are only found on 20-30w Mesas


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## Drew (Feb 21, 2006)

David said:


> A lot of people don't actually use the amps that they have on stage, or they use a different one, and put the same grill and cloth on it as another the brand they're endorsed by. Steve Vai, uses his Bogner amplifiers quite a lot, even though he has tons of his Legacy's up all over the place. The fact is, those legacy's just can't match up.



My sole contribution to this debate will be to point out that Vai doesn't even bring an amp with him on world tours these days, he just grabs a stock Legacy from the local distributer. 

Trust me, having seen Vai in concert twice since the Legacy came out, and having heard and loved his tone on the G3 album with EJ where he DID have an exctacy, he's definitely not playing a Bogner. More's the pity.


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## zimbloth (Feb 21, 2006)

Interesting. My only experience of playing a Legacy was one at GC that I suspect had bad tubes, because it sounded absolutely lifeless and terrible. I would like to check one out sometime, but it's hard to given that they're only available direct from Carvin.

UPDATE: I just bought a Mesa Rectifier Recording Pre. Now I just have to figure out what power amp to get. I had a bad experience with this unit with a 50/50, but I don't know if I want to spend out the ass for a 2:90 or 2:100.


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## 7StringofAblicK (Feb 21, 2006)

zimbloth said:


> Interesting. My only experience of playing a Legacy was one at GC that I suspect had bad tubes, because it sounded absolutely lifeless and terrible. I would like to check one out sometime, but it's hard to given that they're only available direct from Carvin.
> 
> UPDATE: I just bought a Mesa Rectifier Recording Pre. Now I just have to figure out what power amp to get. I had a bad experience with this unit with a 50/50, but I don't know if I want to spend out the ass for a 2:90 or 2:100.



Get a 20/20...pimp tone without an earbleeding 200 watts of tube power!!

I thought i read that you had/have one and liked it. I tried a 50/50 and it was great...but it wasn't with that unit, so...


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## zimbloth (Feb 21, 2006)

Yeah, but the thing is the 20/20 sells for as much as 50/50s do. I'd prefer to just save up for a 2:90 than get a 20/20 again. 

I had the older model 50/50s, not the 2:50. For whatever reason, it was just really harsh sounding and couldnt get a really quality sound. Very noisy too. Perhaps I just didn't set it up right, but I like to think I know what I'm doing and I'm very good at dialing in tones.

If anyones had a Recto Pre and liked it, I'd love to hear what power amps you used.


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## 7StringofAblicK (Feb 21, 2006)

I've never heard one, but i wonder what a 2:90 or 2:100 sounds like cranked...I mean my XXX is 120 watts and my classic 50 is, well, 50 lol...both are absurdly loud...i couldn't imagine more. but, my nomad will be here in a week or less and that's mesa 100 watts...i'll have to see how that fills some air.


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## zimbloth (Feb 21, 2006)

The watts is irrelevant to me. The 20/20 is loud enough. It's more that the 2:90 and 2:100 are a bit more compatible with the Recto Pre. They both have circuitry which specifically takes advantages of modes in the Recto pre, which the 20/20 and 50/50 don't have. I also like that you can use EL34s in those amps instead of just 6L6s. 

I don't know, it'll probably come down to which one I can find for a sick deal ($600 or under I hope).


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## Jeff (Feb 22, 2006)

The Krank stuff is aweful. We had two used Krankensteins at the GC I worked at ever so briefly in Phoenix, and they were more sterile and card board sounding than his Warheads. They were absolutely the worst tube amps I've ever played through. 

I haven't had a chance to play with the XXX (I'll try it out when I pick up my Valveking head this week) but I am sure it blows any Krank out of the water. I know the Valveking does, and it's a fraction of the price.


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## eaeolian (Feb 22, 2006)

zimbloth said:


> UPDATE: I just bought a Mesa Rectifier Recording Pre. Now I just have to figure out what power amp to get. I had a bad experience with this unit with a 50/50, but I don't know if I want to spend out the ass for a 2:90 or 2:100.



Since you've already stated that you like EL34s, why not step outside the loop and try a VHT power amp? When I was using rack gear, I tried every power amp, and the 2150 was hands-down the best. The two/fifty/two that's currently being produced sounds excellent, and gives that nice, midrangy EL34 punch better than the Mesas w/34s, IMO.


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## grimmchaos (Feb 22, 2006)

Zimbloth, I sold my old 2:100 for $600, so they are out there for that price if you want one.


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## Drew (Feb 22, 2006)

zimbloth said:


> Interesting. My only experience of playing a Legacy was one at GC that I suspect had bad tubes, because it sounded absolutely lifeless and terrible. I would like to check one out sometime, but it's hard to given that they're only available direct from Carvin.



Shortly after they came out, I saw a great blues/rock band (surprisingly good, considering they were playing a town fair in Adams, lol) playing a Legacy with a strat. The guy's tone was excellent, very round and bluesy without being overpoweringly so. 

I hate the "woman tone" sort of sound the Legacy heads towards with humbuckers - it's just way too "Vai" for me. However, with a strat to add some brightness and crispness, it actually sounded quite good, sorta like a modern tube Fender with EL34's. 

That said, I've heard of loads of reliability problems with the things...


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## zimbloth (Feb 22, 2006)

I ended up buying a Mesa 2:50. The price for it MINT was too difficult to refuse ($400). It's the newer model which will accept EL34s, so I'll promptly throw in some JJ E34L's which are rad.

It will arrive Thursday at Noon, hopefully it was worth it. I mainly want it for recording more than to play live, but if it sounds cool live then all the better.

PS: Thanks for all the comments on the Krank, im REALLY GLAD i didn't end up buying one. I was going to pick up a Revolution head for $1350 blind. Thank goodness that didn't happen.


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## XEN (Feb 22, 2006)

I seriously appreciate this thread too. I was considering heading down the same road.


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## noodles (Feb 22, 2006)

zimbloth said:


> I ended up buying a Mesa 2:50. The price for it MINT was too difficult to refuse ($400). It's the newer model which will accept EL34s, so I'll promptly throw in some JJ E34L's which are rad.



I was going to recommend the Carvin TS100, since a friend has one and it is a steal at $500, but you did good for yourself with that Mesa. At $400, I would have bought it and figured out what to do with it later.  

A side note: I've been using the EL34(x2)/6L6(x2) combo for my rhythm tones, and the sound is thick and complex, kind of the best of both the Marshall and Mesa worlds. I'd try mixing it up a bit with that amp, because you can get some neat tones. At this point, you have half a Road King if you mix the power tubes up.

Another side note: Mike just got new power tubes from Mesa for his TriRec, and they sound absolutely crushing. I need to get a set for my RK, because they replace the high end fizz with this midrange growl that sounds amazing for everything. I was never big on the lead tones one gets out of a TriRec, but those new Mesa tubes made me a believer.


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## zimbloth (Feb 22, 2006)

You can use 6L6s and EL34s at the same time with a Mesa 2:50? Wouldn't one invariably be biased incorrectly or something?


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## noodles (Feb 22, 2006)

zimbloth said:


> You can use 6L6s and EL34s at the same time with a Mesa 2:50? Wouldn't one invariably be biased incorrectly or something?



Well, I never tried, but aren't those true stereo (two discrete power amps)? If so, each side should be biasable individually. Go to Mesa's website and download a pdf manual.


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## zimbloth (Feb 22, 2006)

Its stereo but theres only one universal bias switch man. Its one or the other. It doesnt matter much, I only intend on using one channel at any given time anyways.


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## nyck (Feb 22, 2006)

That's cool about the Recto Pre and the poweramp.


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