# EVH 5150 III mini vs Laney Ironheart 120 vs Peavey 6505+ vs Blackstar HT 100 Metal



## metalguy2013 (Oct 24, 2013)

Hi, I want this type of distortion. What say me people?


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## JoshuaVonFlash (Oct 24, 2013)

I'm pretty sure all of these amps will get you that kind of distortion, what else do you play (to narrow down your choice).


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## MikeyLawless (Oct 24, 2013)

metalguy2013 said:


> Hi, I want this type of distortion. What say me people?




They will all give you that sound...my vote is for the laney.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Oct 24, 2013)

Laney Ironheart loaded with EL34s or the 6534+.


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## metalguy2013 (Oct 24, 2013)

joshuavsoapkid said:


> I'm pretty sure all of these amps will get you that kind of distortion, what else do you play (to narrow down your choice).



Well man, I love the modern tones more that other thing. I'm looking a head with that type of distortion, but I want something professional and a head with a decent clean, but, the clean not is very important for me like the distortion, but I not want a blues clean, I want a jazz clean if this is possible. I play in my band, rock/metal modern and some soft things. I want a head with MUCH headroom (that sound FULLER, KILLER, A MONSTER HEAD).


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## Spaced Out Ace (Oct 24, 2013)

Well, if you want lots of headroom, you'd want something with kt88s like a Splawn Nitro or Fryette.


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## metalguy2013 (Oct 24, 2013)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Well, if you want lots of headroom, you'd want something with kt88s like a Splawn Nitro or Fryette.



Is out of my budget


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## Spaced Out Ace (Oct 24, 2013)

metalguy2013 said:


> Is out of my budget



Is it out of your budget used? Don't think I read where you mentioned a budget.


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## metalguy2013 (Oct 24, 2013)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Is it out of your budget used? Don't think I read where you mentioned a budget.



Well, the heads mentioned in this thread are in the same range of prices.


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## Handbanana (Oct 24, 2013)

I'm biased, honestly i get a boner every time i play through my 5150 iii


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## metalguy2013 (Oct 25, 2013)

Handbanana said:


> I'm biased, honestly i get a boner every time i play through my 5150 iii



Well, I think that you have the 100 watts version. I think buy the 50 watter, but I not know if this amp (the mini), have a tone fuller or completed like are the heads of 120watts or 100watts. 

I can see all the time, guitar players with amps of 100 or 120 watts for this style musical. 50 watts is like more for the practice, now, 100watts is like to play in live, for concerts. But I not sure of this. What can say me?


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## Metaldestroyerdennis (Oct 25, 2013)

metalguy2013 said:


> Well, I think that you have the 100 watts version. I think buy the 50 watter, but I not know if this amp (the mini), have a tone fuller or completed like are the heads of 120watts or 100watts.
> 
> I can see all the time, guitar players with amps of 100 or 120 watts for this style musical. 50 watts is like more for the practice, now, 100watts is like to play in live, for concerts. But I not sure of this. What can say me?



Exactly what 50 watt amps are you practicing with because mine is pretty f***in' loud


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## JoshuaVonFlash (Oct 25, 2013)

He's probably using solid state, solid state watts are about a quarter or even half the output of a tube amp of the wattage.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Oct 25, 2013)

Yeah, even for small gigs, 50W may be to much.


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## 7stringDemon (Oct 25, 2013)

The 50W is loud as fu*k and VERY close to the 100W. Almost exact. 

It's exactly what you're looking for.


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## metalguy2013 (Oct 25, 2013)

Good. =) But my problem not is exactly with the loud, is with the tone, 100 watt or 120 watt sound like with more mids or body and fuller that a 50 watt head. Is like a comparison of cars. A 50 watt sound like a engine of a toyota corolla. Now, a 100 or 120 watts sound like a engine of a Mercedez SLR Mclaren or Lamborgini. Can understand me now?


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## GreatWhiteYeti (Oct 25, 2013)

My 50 watt head is louder than both of my band mates 100w heads. And the size of the thing is hard to replace when moving on and off the stage as fast as possible.



Handbanana said:


> I'm biased, honestly i get a boner every time i play through my 5150 iii




! Indeed!


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## Underworld (Oct 25, 2013)

metalguy2013 said:


> Good. =) But my problem not is exactly with the loud, is with the tone, 100 watt or 120 watt sound like with more mids or body and fuller that a 50 watt head. Is like a comparison of cars. A 50 watt sound like a engine of a toyota corolla. Now, a 100 or 120 watts sound like a engine of a Mercedez SLR Mclaren or Lamborgini. Can understand me now?




This is where you are wrong. Wattage does not equal sound quality. Wattage does not equal percieved volume. Wattage is a mesurement of energy and headroom. You get what? 3db difference between 50 watts and 100 watts?! You cannot compare wattage to car engine. Some of the best tone of all time come from low wattage amps, Bad Cat amps per say. Also, not to mention the extremely shitty Crate Blue Voodoo 300  

The 50 watts is NOT a mini amp. It's just a smaller, more affordable version of the original. 

Now, how does compare the EVH 50 watts vs the 100 watts. Meaner. More gain. Volume power is almost as powerfull. 

My bandmate has the 100 watts, and I own the 50 watts, both into Mesa 4X12 OS cab from the same era. In our rock band, we use channel 2 for our rhythm sound. I put the gain on about 11:30, and the volume at 10:00 (we play FVCKING LOUD). On his, gain is on 3:00, volume at 9:30. We have almost the exact same sound. 

The only difference I can see is that the 100 watts is a little more low mids oriented where the 50 is high mids oriented but this is VERY SUBTLE.


I have been a true amp whore before owning the EVH - I got a Framus Cobra, Mesa Triaxis + 2:90, VHT Pitbull CL, VHT 2-90 with Ada MP1, 3 Laney amps. I changed amps every 6 months! I 've been owning the EVH for 1 year and a half now, and it still amaze me. That's something.


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## Quitty (Oct 25, 2013)

metalguy2013 said:


> Good. =) But my problem not is exactly with the loud, is with the tone, 100 watt or 120 watt sound like with more mids or body and fuller that a 50 watt head. Is like a comparison of cars. A 50 watt sound like a engine of a toyota corolla. Now, a 100 or 120 watts sound like a engine of a Mercedez SLR Mclaren or Lamborgini. Can understand me now?



Understand? yes. I think you just disagree.
A 50W head has almost the same perceived volume, but less headroom. Bottom line is, when you really crank it up, you will have less low-bass than on a 100W version. If you have a bassist, that's usually a good thing.
The mids shouldn't be any different. The tone should be identical.


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## metalguy2013 (Oct 25, 2013)

Underworld said:


> This is where you are wrong. Wattage does not equal sound quality. Wattage does not equal percieved volume. Wattage is a mesurement of energy and headroom. You get what? 3db difference between 50 watts and 100 watts?! You cannot compare wattage to car engine. Some of the best tone of all time come from low wattage amps, Bad Cat amps per say. Also, not to mention the extremely shitty Crate Blue Voodoo 300
> 
> The 50 watts is NOT a mini amp. It's just a smaller, more affordable version of the original.
> 
> ...



Thanks, I understand this. Well, I have a Mesa 4x12 with v30, I love the low mids, the Mark Tremonti style.


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## talon97 (Oct 25, 2013)

Story of The Year - Ryan Phillips Guitar Gear Rig and Equipment


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## metalguy2013 (Oct 25, 2013)

talon97 said:


> Story of The Year - Ryan Phillips Guitar Gear Rig and Equipment



Mesa Boogie Lonestar (1800$) and Stilleto Deuce (1900$). Marshall JCM800 with mods (2400$ + the mod, like 2800$). No man, they use 100 watts heads, can see? Is a great tone, but the prices are very out of my budget, not can buy this. Used can be a great option, but, is like very dangerous no?

My budget in USA is of 1100$.


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## metalguy2013 (Oct 25, 2013)

Also, this band (Story of the Year) in this year use recently Blackstar Series One 104 EL34 (2100$). But, like I not can buy that heads, I only can buy the new Blackstar HT 100 METAL =)


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## Underworld (Oct 25, 2013)

metalguy2013 said:


> Used can be a great option, but, is like very dangerous no?
> 
> My budget in USA is of 1100$.




Again, no. I always (or almost) buy used, and never got a single problem with my stuff. In fact, I prefer used guitars and cabinets are they are "worn in" or "settled"... you know, a brand new guitar have some kind of stiff, not "broken in" feeling that I don't like. I prefer not to deal with an instrument that still needs time to adjust itself properly. Used guitars are, I believe, much more stable. 

Best exemple? Last time I went guitar shopping in a store, the guitar I though had the best feeling and mojo was the Fender Stratocaster Road Worn... an already beaten up strat where the finish was scrapped at places. Loved it.


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## metalguy2013 (Oct 26, 2013)

Underworld said:


> Again, no. I always (or almost) buy used, and never got a single problem with my stuff. In fact, I prefer used guitars and cabinets are they are "worn in" or "settled"... you know, a brand new guitar have some kind of stiff, not "broken in" feeling that I don't like. I prefer not to deal with an instrument that still needs time to adjust itself properly. Used guitars are, I believe, much more stable.
> 
> Best exemple? Last time I went guitar shopping in a store, the guitar I though had the best feeling and mojo was the Fender Stratocaster Road Worn... an already beaten up strat where the finish was scrapped at places. Loved it.



Well man, I love that low mids range in the tone of a 100 watts head, I prefer this that have high mids. Leaving out the EVH mini of the list, what of the others heads you recommend me for this that I 'm looking?


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## Underworld (Oct 26, 2013)

I don't think I expressed myself clearly on that last sentence. The 50 watts does not lack low mids at all. It is the best amp of your list, period. The 6505 series sounds like shit compared to it IMO. 


Also, it is a common beginner mistake to believe a 100 watts amp will sound better than a 50 watts. In fact, I PREFER 50 watts amps. Why? What makes a tube amp sound good? That powertube compression and warmth you get when you crank the fvcking volume. And unless you plan to play stadiums and arenas next week, 100 watts is just stupid. When I owned 100 watts amps I used to remove 2 of the powertubes to drop the power to 50 watts. And as far as band practice go, if you have a not-over-the-top-loud drummer, you can easily deal with a 5 watts amp  

Tl;dr 50 watts will give you that brutaly compressed but warm tube tone we love at lower volume and this is why we love them. 

2 last tips :

- go try the amps by yourself. Some amps may sound good on paper, but play like shit for you. I have that problem with Mesa Rectifiers. I LOVE that recorded tone, but that totally suck with my playing. Hell, every Mesa amp suck with my playing! Same guitar same rig and my bandmate does magic on Mesa amps. 

- don't believe you will get guitars sounds like you hear on recordings. The mix is often far from what the guys really use, and guitars are mixed really thin to leave place for the bass.


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## Metaldestroyerdennis (Oct 26, 2013)

If you really want a 120 watt head go buy the Laney or the 6505. Then when you realize how ridiculous it is you can return it and get the 5150 III


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## russmuller (Oct 27, 2013)

It seems like you're quick to dismiss the 50 watt option. I have a 50 watt Pittbull and it's pretty damn loud. When I was touring, at rehearsals, or recording, it was never lacking.

I'll just leave this here: WTF is the Difference Between a 50 Watt and a 100 Watt Amp? | Guitar WTF


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## Handbanana (Oct 27, 2013)

metalguy2013 said:


> Well, I think that you have the 100 watts version. I think buy the 50 watter, but I not know if this amp (the mini), have a tone fuller or completed like are the heads of 120watts or 100watts.
> 
> I can see all the time, guitar players with amps of 100 or 120 watts for this style musical. 50 watts is like more for the practice, now, 100watts is like to play in live, for concerts. But I not sure of this. What can say me?



Nah I use the 50w and I cant even get past 50% in a typical jam situation.


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## Forkface (Oct 27, 2013)

dude, I use an Orange Dual terror, which is 30 watts, and I get scared for my ears every time I turn the volume past 5... thing is louder than my friend's 120 watt Peavey Windsor, just saying.


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## Heavy (Nov 1, 2013)

Saturated, scooped, wet/squishy(single-coil like) sound?
Ye, 5150 III is for you.

I've played small HT amp, I've had 5150 III and currently have 6534+ with E34L (el34/6l6 hybrid) which someone suggested. 
6534 has more mids than 6505, and both these amps are more focused on mids than 5150 III. 
Fender III is more modern, scooped, saturated, refined, compressed, 3D-like tone (6505 is just a saturated wall of sound, not so 3d). Much more gain than 6534.
IMHO in 6534 there is more string separation (distorted chords), maybe because it sounds more raw, but 5150 III has better single note definition (I know it might sound weird but that's what I think) and better pinched harmonics (easy to get). 
I think 6534 has more character than 5150 III. I bias it low to get that weird distortion. Some people hate it, I like it.
Imo Peavey sounds better when you use low tunings, crunchier/crispier than III (just less scooped/compressed).
It's much easier to get good tone with 5150 III though, I have to mess with 6534 knobs to get nice sound (changing volume sometimes requires serious adjustments, 5150 III is more consistent).

Basically:
6505 = In Flames, middy, raw, aggresive
5150 III = Killswitch Engange / Periphery, scooped, a bit fizzy, refined, modern
HT is more straightforward, not so thick sounding like 6505 or III, but I liked it too.


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## chassless (Nov 1, 2013)

Heavy said:


> Basically:
> 6505 = In Flames, middy, raw, aggresive



on which records exactly ? supposing that they have about 3 eras (let's say whoracle, clayman, a sense of purpose), and each has its distinct guitar tone, which one are you referring to ?


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## Metaldestroyerdennis (Nov 1, 2013)

chassless said:


> on which records exactly ? supposing that they have about 3 eras (let's say whoracle, clayman, a sense of purpose), and each has its distinct guitar tone, which one are you referring to ?



5150-Early In Flames

5150 III-New In Flames

Not the best case for the amp but it can sound brutal


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## chassless (Nov 2, 2013)

amazing ! thanks


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## Heavy (Nov 2, 2013)

It's hard to say because all recordings sound different than real amp. 

Both amps are really similar, I just want to exaggerate the difference.

In flames/Machine head:



Thick midrange. It hits you with mids. Not marshall piercing mids, but what I mean it has balls in the low-mids.

Periphery:
 1:20
For me it's modern/wet sound, with nice single note clarity(also chords clarity, but as I said I think Peavey has better, unfortunately I can't find nice peavey example). 
(I think they've used kemper or Axe FX for that song, so it's not even 5150 III). 

Don't get me wrong, these videos do not show how these amps sound, I'm just using them to point the difference between two amps.

Actually I think I like Periphery tone more  But I have other preferrences in real life. For example I love Rectifiers on recordings, but I didn't like to play Rectifier. (Maybe it's more about feeling, I like thumping, mean, raw, crushing wall of sound). Mesa on modern setting was too piercing/fizzy/thin for me, compared to, let's say, JCM800.


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## revivalmode (Nov 4, 2013)

Heavy said:


> Periphery:
> 1:20
> For me it's modern/wet sound, with nice single note clarity(also chords clarity, but as I said I think Peavey has better, unfortunately I can't find nice peavey example).
> (I think they've used kemper or Axe FX for that song, so it's not even 5150 III).
> ...




I believe that Periphery ran an EVH 5150 III head as a power amp through an Axe FX to record PII


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## Fred the Shred (Nov 4, 2013)

Of all those I prefer the Ironheart myself, but the 5150 III is nothing to sneeze at at all - it's just a matter of how the "grit" works in regards to one's personal preference, really.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Nov 4, 2013)

revivalmode said:


> I believe that Periphery ran an EVH 5150 III head as a power amp through an Axe FX to record PII



Yup. Power section of the 5153 only.


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## karjim (Nov 4, 2013)

5150III= compressed modern sound which a lot of people don't like and others fall in love.
50W 100W same fight same sound, if you want see a difference put these very very very freakin' loud during 10 hours....Then go back to the studio when the two heads are burning since last night...Then maybe you'll hear a difference.
"6505 series sound like shit compared to 5150III" ?????
ha ha oh oh hey hey said the joker....I take the 6534+ in a sec instead of the Fender.
So more musical in a band mix, so beautiful RAW mids.
I made a 6534+ mini ( 50W) with 2 JJE34Ls) with a mercury transformer...some capa changes and others shits 
With a TS9 or 808....It's the best wall of sound Peavey could ever make...AMAZING for Gigs.


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## metalguy2013 (Nov 5, 2013)

Well guys, I'm not looking a head with much FIZZ in your tone and with a thin tone, No, I not want this! My main target is the distortion, what I'm looking? Well, DEFINITION, the head more definite in this list. I love a dark amp, not so bright! as sound the distortion in the link of youtube. =)
You want more examples of the tone of distortion? See this:

Story Of The Year - The Antidote - YouTube

Story Of The Year - We Don't Care Anymore (Video) - YouTube

Story Of The Year - Razorblades - YouTube

The tone like Story of the Year

I think combine this with a cabinet Mesa Boogie Rectifier Traditional (Not the Oversize or Standard model) 4x12" with V30. For this reason, this cabinet have a particular tone, and I wish combine the best head in the list with this cabinet, with the purpose of get a great tone and very close of the tone of Story of the year!

Now, this, in tone, but, in volume, well, I want a head that IN CLEANS and IN BIG CONCERTS I not have the need of put the volume at 3:00 o'clock to can hear the clean. I want in a clean channel, put the gain at 9:00 o'clock and the volume at 11:00 or 12:00 o'clock NO MORE, and with all this, can hear me very loud! I can get this with a 50 watts? I believe that not! :/ See? In the case of the clean my problem not is the tone, is precisely that. =)

So guys, what can tell me? =D


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## Heavy (Nov 5, 2013)

In that case 5150 III can maintain better clean tone. But you have to know that in 50W version there is quite big volume jump between clean channel and crunch. 

You can avoid that with some mods or by controlling volume in fx loops with some rack unit.

BTW 6534+ has nice clean channel too:

It's more like marshall clean but its not that bad as some people describe it. And there is no big volume jump like in 5150 III.

If it comes to tone in these videos, I think it's pretty...bright/crunchy - I'd say that you can hear some Marshall-like sounds in We Don't Care Anymore video. It's pretty solid/raw//crunchy to me, boosted Marshall would be nice for that. If you like tone from The Antidote more - then some Mesa Rectifier with EL34 tubes would do. Also I think in that type of music Rectifiers are really nice.
It also heavily depends on your guitar, Marshalls (especially old ones) are quite picky. Mine sounds really heavy with Peavey Wolfgang but with SG-like guitar it just sounds like ACDC.

It's hard for me to tell which one is darker if it comes to 5150 amps.

5150 III has scooped sound, but on the other hand it has more presence/fizz which makes it more edgy/cutting than 6534, which translates to nice single-note definition.
6534 has more mids, but it is not so fizzy/edgy - so its sounds more 'vintage' compared to 5150 III, and some people might it's darker.

I think for this music, Blackstar would be better - it has simpler tone but it's crunchier/brighter. Anyway I would buy Rectifier with EL34s (like Single Rectifier, which is brighter than Dual).

---------------------
dark and defined

5150 III - for me it's dark because it has scooped mids.Also refined/wet sound, so it's crunchy, but not like Marshall(not so raw).

Old Rivera Knucklehead/Mesa Mark IV - thick, dark sounding amps with quite nice definition, but to be honest - they've lacked definition of Marshall. Marshall just has that cutting sound(well, some Marshall amps have flubby bass, you need to push them with some pedal do get better definition). American cleans, very nice. Medicore crunch.

Splawn Nitro KT88- VERY dark amp with very nice definition, quite scooped. Very modern sounding, but not refined like 5150 III. It's like Rectifier on steroids (Many people say that's Marshall on steroids, well, for me it's too modern sounding to compare it to Marshall). Medicore clean.

If you don't mind playing compressed amps...
Mako Mak2 Dorado - very dark, very thick, very fluid, but still defined. By defined I mean that you can hear what you are playing. Unique sound. I was very impressed, but unfortunately it was to compressed for me. I just didn't feel that amp. It was very nice with single coils though. Maybe my guitars are too hot.
Excuse my playing, i'm just an hobbyist.



Lol, I thought I'm writing private response. hah.


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## metalguy2013 (Nov 5, 2013)

Heavy said:


> In that case 5150 III can maintain better clean tone. But you have to know that in 50W version there is quite big volume jump between clean channel and crunch.
> 
> You can avoid that with some mods or by controlling volume in fx loops with some rack unit.
> 
> ...




Very nice answer man! Well, I love the rectifier series, but I not have the money for buy one. 1950$ USD is the price of a new Dual Rectifier, I love the 2010 version, the Multiwatt, is more definite that the old duals. But I not can find one used. Only can see old duals and this heads have much use :/

For my budget (1200$ USD), I think that the Blackstar is a very nice option, this have 6L6 and this tubes are a bit scopped, but, with the ISF control can are very close of a head with EL34. The Blackstar that I'm talking is the new Blackstar HT 100 METAL . The Blackstar have 100 watts, and that band (Story of the Year) use in concerts only heads of 100watts, not less. And 100watts can sound very loud  and I love this!

What you can say me man? The Blackstar is for me? =)


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## Metaldestroyerdennis (Nov 5, 2013)

For loud cleans use low output pickups. I can get to about 3 fully clean with blackouts, 5 if I pick softly, but then again blackouts slam the amp with a wall of saturated brutality. Dark will depend on your guitar, my III sounds pretty dark with my SLS, very bright with my friend's kelly. The 50 watt does have a resonance control if you need an extra touch of darkness. Bottom line is this:

Both amps will do bright, dark, middy, scooped, insanely saturated, or djenty. The EQ controls do a lot in the III. What you need to be looking at is:

Do you want a very tight and aggressive punchy gain (5150)
Do you want a more refined, but much more gainy and smooth distortion (III)

Based on the songs you posted:
The 6505 won't hit the cleans. It will hit those dirt tones, but it will have to be loud
The III will be a little more saturated than that, but it will hit the cleans

I would recommend the 6505+ for that music: It will do that type of distortion naturally and its cleans get close. Because it's 120 watts it will have a touch extra headroom if the cleans are really important, and you can swap out the preamp tubes for (12at7?) lower gain ones, but what you sacrifice in doing so is the ability not to crank the amp to get heavier sounds. A tubescreamer is a must.


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## metalguy2013 (Nov 5, 2013)

Metaldestroyerdennis said:


> For loud cleans use low output pickups. I can get to about 3 fully clean with blackouts, 5 if I pick softly, but then again blackouts slam the amp with a wall of saturated brutality. Dark will depend on your guitar, my III sounds pretty dark with my SLS, very bright with my friend's kelly. The 50 watt does have a resonance control if you need an extra touch of darkness. Bottom line is this:
> 
> Both amps will do bright, dark, middy, scooped, insanely saturated, or djenty. The EQ controls do a lot in the III. What you need to be looking at is:
> 
> ...



Well man, my current rig is this:

-Cabinet: Mesa Boogie Rectifier Traditional 4x12 with v30
-Guitar: Paul Reed Smith Custom 24.
-Pickups: PRS 57/08

What you can say me?


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## Metaldestroyerdennis (Nov 5, 2013)

I doubt you'll have any issues with getting a dark sound out of that thing, or cleans for that matter. The only experience I have is with the 6505, 6505+, and 5150 III and out of the three I would choose the 6505+ if I were you. I have no experience with PRS pickups, so I have no idea how they handle aggressive tone, but I don't think I've ever heard any complaints about the cleans they get.


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## metalguy2013 (Nov 5, 2013)

Metaldestroyerdennis said:


> I doubt you'll have any issues with getting a dark sound out of that thing, or cleans for that matter. The only experience I have is with the 6505, 6505+, and 5150 III and out of the three I would choose the 6505+ if I were you. I have no experience with PRS pickups, so I have no idea how they handle aggressive tone, but I don't think I've ever heard any complaints about the cleans they get.



The PRS 57/08 are pickups mid gain, very cristaline and definite, VERY DEFINITE! Clear! Is awesome!


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## Andrew91 (Nov 5, 2013)

Gonna have to say the 5153.
Wattage isn't important, and the 50w version is cheaper.
It's verrryyy nice.


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