# Tech can't figure out how to set up Ibanez Zero Point system



## nigh7sh4de (Feb 22, 2016)

TL;DR
Don't buy any guitar with the zero point system in it if you want to use any string gauge lower or higher than the stock 10-58.

Several months ago I bought an Ibanez RG927QM that came with the Edge Zero II bridge featuring the Zero Point System (ZPS3Fe). Basically what the system is supposed to do is make sure that the bridge sits back into its original position with perfect tuning after you use the trem. In my experience, it really didn't work all the well but ok whatever. So anyway after a few months of playing on the string it came set up with I decided it was time to swap out for some new ones. I play 12's on my 6 string but I wanted to do more shreddy stuff on the 7 string so I though I would get 11's with heavier strings for the Low B and E (something like 65 and 58 respectively). So I go out, by my new strings, unstring the old ones, pop the new ones in, and start balancing the bridge.

Problem.

The bridge can't balance. I've got the springs basically maxed out and the bridge is still FAR from floating. I take the guitar to the place I got it (Long & McQuade, huge music retailer here in Canada) and ask them to set it up for me, saying I will pay when I come pick it up. A week later I get an email from the tech saying he couldn't get the bridge to balance. Because of the Zero Point System there is no room for additional springs. He is contacting Ibanez to see what can be done. OK so at least I'm not incompetent, there really is something wrong with the guitar. Another week passes and Ibanez basically goes:

The bridge will only work with the stock gauge of 10-58.

 I mean seriously. Your premium extended range guitar is the only electric guitar the retailer has ever sold that has a specific range for string gauge. Extended range guitar with a limited (to 1) range of string gauges. 

Thankfully the retailer took pity on me and hardtailed the bridge under warranty so I wasn't charged anything and got me a sweet discount on a used Marshal 412 to make up for the fact that my shiny new expensive (for me) Ibanez no longer has a floating bridge.

I'll post pictures later tonight of the custom aluminum... thing... the tech rigged up to hardtail the guitar. It honestly looks very clean and well done. Oh well, at least now I got my beautiful 7 string back


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Feb 22, 2016)

The tech at L&M is an idiot. He just needed to block the trem while adjusting the ZPS and trem springs separately. 

I've set them up as heavy as 12 to 66 in B standard, and as light as 9 to 52 down a half step. 

You sometimes need the heavier springs, but Ibanez will mail you those for free.


----------



## GuitarBizarre (Feb 22, 2016)

Agreed, there's no reason you shouldn't be able to get that string gauge to work as long as you have the heavier springs available - which any tech worth their wages should, or should at least be able to get hold of.


----------



## OmegaSlayer (Feb 22, 2016)

I've heard guitar-techs in stores saying that guitars with floating bridges will always be unbalanced if you go different from 0.09-0.42 or 0.10-0.46, and that's big incompetence on their side.
The tech in that shop ruined your guitar for no reason, he lied because he clearly didn't contact Ibanez, and should change his work to "milking bulls", as probably it's the only thing he's good at.
I'm really sorry for you.
Never, ever take the first suggestion a tech will give you (in whatever kind of thing, from cars to toilets).
Ask 2, 3 person, then make a decision.
If the first guy lacks skills, he will cause a damage that will cost you twice or thrice to get back to normal use.


----------



## OmegaSlayer (Feb 22, 2016)

Oh, and knowing the supreme d!ck I am I would contact Ibanez about this.


----------



## NoodleFace (Feb 22, 2016)

This is why you learn how to properly setup your own guitars.

I once gave my RG3120 to a tech for a setup and received the guitar back with pieces falling off, terrible action, buzz everywhere, and my neck bowed forward. I vowed that day to never again let a tech touch my guitar.


----------



## ang3 (Feb 22, 2016)

i wanna get a nut filing and fret dressings done at L&M but i really don't know how well the techs at L&M are and seeing this isn't making me feel any better ;(

but ya i've had tunings from A# to D standard with 66 being the thickest and the bridge balanced. also the spring weren't even maxed out when i did it. (6 and 7 string RGD)


----------



## 7 Strings of Hate (Feb 22, 2016)

MaxOfMetal said:


> The tech at L&M is an idiot.



 I don't think that means hes an idiot. I think it means that just hasn't worked with that bridge before and isn't sure what hes doing with it yet. 
Being an idiot and being unfamiliar with something are 2 different things.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Feb 22, 2016)

7 Strings of Hate said:


> I don't think that means hes an idiot. I think it means that just hasn't worked with that bridge before and isn't sure what hes doing with it yet.
> Being an idiot and being unfamiliar with something are 2 different things.



If he didn't even bother taking a couple minutes to do his job and figure out how to operate the bridge he's paid to work on, he's an idiot or at the very least ignorant and lazy. 

It's not like the Edge Zero is a new unit, it came out over a decade ago and the ZPS has been around even longer. It's also functionally the same as the Tremsetter, an even older device. 

Part of being a tech, and more importantly a shop tech, is keeping up with the new hardware. That's like if a mechanic who was trained in the 70's refuses to learn about fuel injection.

More to the point, L&M is an authorized Ibanez retailer. I don't know if they're an authorized repair center. If they aren't a ARC, then as a retailer they are not allowed, per contract, to work on the guitar unless they void the warranty. If they are an ARC, then they have signed documentation that all thier techs are knowledgeable and capable of working on Ibanez hardware. So either way, they broke thier dealer agreement.


----------



## Sumsar (Feb 22, 2016)

Techs in general seems to be real idiots, saw this in another thread the other day:

Apparently some tech thought that to install new pickups he had to install pickup rings:


----------



## Riverrunsred (Feb 22, 2016)

Sumsar said:


> Techs in general seems to be real idiots, saw this in another thread the other day:
> 
> Apparently some tech thought that to install new pickups he had to install pickup rings:



Somebody would pay for that, holy crap.


----------



## Mangle (Feb 22, 2016)

Yeah, I remember when I had to learn the hard way that not all techs were competent or knowledgeable. I didn't allow them to disgorge my guitar of a floating trem system or anything but, well, yeah. 
I've heard a lot of really negative sh*t about this Long & McQuade outfit now. Seems like you really have to watch yourself around these guys.


----------



## OmegaSlayer (Feb 23, 2016)

7 Strings of Hate said:


> I don't think that means hes an idiot. I think it means that just hasn't worked with that bridge before and isn't sure what hes doing with it yet.
> Being an idiot and being unfamiliar with something are 2 different things.



I immediately checked your location to see if you were from Canada. 
The dude is not forgivable.
If you don't know how to work on something you say it, you don't risk to damage someone else's gear.


----------



## Hollowway (Feb 23, 2016)

The guy's a fool. But, really, at this point for us all, it's more like, "who is more the fool: the fool, or the fool who follows the fool." Threads like this come up countless times. I had a tech who worked for a custom guitar shop (who shall remain nameless due to an arrangement I have with them) that set up my new guitars with "slammed" action, so it was as low as possible. Well, the tech didn't know that OFRs Coke with shims to allow you to match the FB radius, so the action was all over the place. That was the last time a tech did a set up for me. I mean, I'm sure there are some good ones out there, and if you find one stick with them, but don't assume they have their head out of their ass.


----------



## Vrollin (Feb 23, 2016)

Sumsar said:


> Techs in general seems to be real idiots, saw this in another thread the other day:
> 
> Apparently some tech thought that to install new pickups he had to install pickup rings:



Its not mine and even still this picture broke my heart. I just simply can not understand what was going through that guys head when he did that. He literally had to pull the old ones out to put the new ones in so they knew how to mount them....


----------



## thedonal (Feb 23, 2016)

That's a crappy thing to do to a beautiful guitar.

If someone treated my RG1527 like that, I'd completely flip out! 

Fortunately, as I change pickups on my guitars, I would be wholly to blame!


----------



## HaloHat (Feb 26, 2016)

Maybe we should start a "Where NOT to take your guitar for work" thread. I could contribute a couple Seattle area shops unfortunately. 

As a post above says, good way to learn how to do the work yourself. The tools needed are actually not that expensive and they pay for themselves pretty darn fast too. Wadda ya know, its a piece of wood and some metal parts once you find out how things work. It is more a taking your time to do it right thing than it is uber tech skills. Good way to bond with your instrument of mass destruction too.


----------



## laxu (Feb 26, 2016)

My last experience with a tech was a refret job that took 6 months for me to get the guitar back. The job was alright and I did get a discount for it taking that long but this guy was one of the recommended techs in Helsinki so I expected better. I contacted him repeatedly and it was always "it will be done next week".

I highly recommend everyone learns to at least setup their guitars. The next step from that is small repairs like replacing the nut and fixing electronics, neither of which is difficult but does require some tools.


----------



## Mangle (Feb 27, 2016)

laxu said:


> I highly recommend everyone learns to at least setup their guitars. The next step from that is small repairs like replacing the nut and fixing electronics, neither of which is difficult but does require some tools.



This.... so much. I waited for years before learning how to properly set-up my own guitars. Or to learn what was going on under the hood of my guitars either. Mostly because of my own ignorance and a misguided overt respect I had for them. Thinking it was beyond me to possibly learn (what turned out to be)simple maintenance and/or repairs & upgrades.


----------



## marcwormjim (Feb 27, 2016)

Sorry to turn this into the "crappy guitar store tech story thread", but I typed a rant during my bowel movement:

There's currently no regulating luthiers/techs, beyond the free market. I've found those who take pride in their work to constitute a minority, with the majority having "friend of the owner or manager" as their sole qualification for being allowed to screw guitars up for YEARS.

I could write a book about my experiences, if I wanted to be a pariah. Suffice to say that music store ownership is generally limited to those so lacking in business sense as to own a music store. Unless you're managing a franchise, I haven't found mom-and-pop stores good for much more than laundering money - At best, it's a masochistic community service for the sake of keeping doors open on a month-to-month basis.

If you're in it just to spite Guitar Center, good for you - But I couldn't stand staying in the retail business. As with a lot of "fun" jobs, I felt overpaid in that it didn't feel like work, but underpaid to deal with all the bull.... resulting from unaccountable employees and customers not doing theirs.

You get sick of the same fat kid ripping the jack out of his BC Rich Bronze every other week when he's at his dad's house, followed by the mom coming in blaming you for "not fixing it right", and demanding the third free resoldering that month. You've given up telling her to remind him to put his cable through his strap.

You grow weary of the music store in the next town hiring a high school student who feels every setup-job on a $70 guitar brought in demands $300 in unapproved work, which results in the customer bringing the guitar into your store to undo the damage at a discount they feel entitled to due to their grief with an unrelated store. And of course, this doesn't get brought up until you call them with a quote to replace the frets the other guy "leveled" down to nubs to deal with a truss problem.

You grow impatient with the store-owner who "doesn't want to put all their eggs in one basket"; and so consistently assigns "simple" repairs and setups to their nephew without notifying you, and then you deal with a customer who was charged $70 for a $35 repair that you were unaware of, you can tell by looking at it that no work was performed on the guitar, and the manager has introduced you as "the guy who does all the repairs." 

It goes on and on. People want you to take two hours out of your workday to describe to them how to do their own string-changes, because they don't want to take advantage of the week's "Buy two packs and get a free string change" promotion. 

Guys come in five minutes before closing time to make the whole store stink of weed while asking how much you'd charge to perform a "tone wood transplant" on their epiphone. 

Someone dropped two guitars off with a note requesting that you swap all the electronics and hardware between the Floyd Rose superstrat and Les Paul knockoff, and then calls as you're reading the note to ask if it can be done by tomorrow; because he has a "gig" at a friend's birthday bbq he wasn't invited to.

Players working as floor employees think they're techs, techs think they're luthiers, luthiers think they're woodworkers, and the customer is always right; and know what they want - Up until you tell them how much it will cost. Put a bullet in my head.

Point is, it's a crapshoot.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Feb 28, 2016)

^

Guitar stores are like restaurants. 

Anyone with a chunk of change and a dream can open one, but to actually actually make a great product (or service as the case may be) and more importantly a profit is a lot more difficult. 

But just like restaurants, you should be able to tell whether you're in a _s_hith_o_le or a real gem right away. 

If Guitar Center is McDonalds, then a mom and pop shop can either be a grimey diner or an upscale gastropub. Look at the place, the clientele, and the menu. Use your nose. If you do that, you won't get food poisoning. 

If you ever want a great meal, ask your best friend who cooks or is a chef were to eat. They'll set you straight.


----------



## shredfreak (Feb 28, 2016)

so another kid/guy/... learned the lesson NOT to let big stores do repairs on their gear, lesson learned i hope.

My experience so far with stores:

Amp goes in with some issues on the gain channel, comes back saying the preamp tube was replaced. Problem still existed, the actual problem was the switching board that needed replacement.

Had my guitar scalloped years ago, Store told me it would be CNC'd. Turned out like your typical ..... fender scallop so had to redo it to get it right (150 job tyvm). I can do it myself now, all it took was buying the neccesary tools from the shop.

Owners are just as big a retard as wannabe repairman actually. My cort bass is an amazing example of one, luckily i'm able to work around the mongrel' stupidity. Appearantly it was "upgraded" with a mid selector switch of extremely dubious quality. It wasn't even strung up properly with loose & flabby strings for drop A tuning. Now having that extra hole available i can actually upgrade it with some decent pickups (something splittable like nordy's big split) and a glockenklang pre using the additional hole's drilled for series/parallell/single pickup switching. Right now it's a fully passive bass with all electronics disconnected.

Our guitarists gibson is also a job i'll happily do myself since stores just can't be trusted one bit.


----------



## nigh7sh4de (Mar 2, 2016)

Actually the tech said that he spoke with Ibanez themselves and they were the ones who told them that it would be impossible to balance the bridge with the heavier gauge strings. TBH I don't really mind, I've been considering hardtailing the guitar anyway so having it done for me under warranty was actually pretty nice.

The only thing is that the setup was awful. Everything from intonation problems, to some ridiculously low action on the strings (which even though they were really tight due to the high gauge) still buzzed like mad. A bit of work with a hex screwdriver and I fixed her up.


----------



## GuitarBizarre (Mar 2, 2016)

So what you're saying is your tech screwed your guitar up anyway and gave you a terrible setup, and a bunch of knowledgeable people just told you that tech was already lying to you.

But because your tech told you he "spoke to Ibanez" you're going to disregard that and believe the bridge is impossible to set up with a string guage someone in this thread has already attested to using successfully, and all he had to do was use heavier springs? The ones Ibanez make for this exact situation?


----------



## CapnForsaggio (Mar 2, 2016)

Seems like a decent summary of this situation, yeah.


----------



## Spicypickles (Mar 2, 2016)

lol @ thread


----------

