# Educate me please (NoOb to staining)



## Michael T (Apr 20, 2012)

OK as title says, Please educate me about staining.

I've got a 7620 I'm having an African Mahogany body built for. I'm wanting to go with some type of Black/Greyish stain. I'm wanting a dirty nasty industrial style finish but still able to see the grain and accents in the wood.
I've got a 4-6 week wait on my body so I have plenty of time to prepare.
Also is there any wood that accepts stain similar to the mahogany that's cheap so I can practice/test on before the real deal arrives.

 Thanks in advance 
​
Here is where I need your guys educated help.

1.) What is the proper procedure for prepping the wood for stain.
2.) What type of stain should be used for this wood (Oil, water?)
3.) what is the proper procedure for staining. (apply stain, sand, repeat ect ??? Foam brush, rag or what for applying? )
4.) What is a good way to seal the finish if i decide to not spray a gloss clear coat on it?


If possible please refer me to brands and specific items involved that way i buy the correct product. (Eg. Steel wool or sand paper what grits, Wet sand or dry?)

I've spent time with Google & on YouTube but I trust my fellow SSOers more than some random chap posting about it. You know more about guitars and can get a better understanding of what I'm shooting for.

A few images of the color/ style I'm wanting.
I know these are ash except for the M8M which is Alder and I'm doing a Mahogany guitar but this is the color/finish style I'm wanting to achieve, if possible.


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## iron blast (Apr 20, 2012)

the guitars you showed all have ash tops and black stain


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## Michael T (Apr 20, 2012)

iron blast said:


> the guitars you showed all have ash tops and black stain



Unfortunately I know this.  But that's the SHADE of black I'd like to go for.
I'm aware that Ash & Alder takes stain different from Mahogany, I'm just wondering if that same shade/finish can be achieved and if so whats the proper technique.

Thank you for pointing that out though because someone else may had not known they were ash.


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## Berserker (Apr 21, 2012)

This one is mahogany and probably the kind of thing you're going for. Should be a case of wiping/brushing black stain on and then an oil finish. No need for grain filler as you want the pores to show. Should be pretty simple.


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## Michael T (Apr 21, 2012)

^^Thank you Berserker. +1

As for the Grain filler, Could it be tinted a dark black or say maybe green to enhance the pores or are the too small on mahogany and it'd just look like crap?


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## JStraitiff (Apr 21, 2012)

If you DO use a clear coat you will want to use grain filler to fill the pores before the clear goes on because if you dont your grain will show on the finish, like there will be ridges in the clear coat.

As for the staining itself you could either just wipe on black water based or you might even like the look of mixing black transtint with your clear coat which will give you an even black transparent color over the whole thing mixed right in with the finish. With mahogany you wont have any of the dynamics of the ash in those pics so this might be better as it will still show the grain but will have an even color all around. If you go with this you will want to fill the grain first.


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## Michael T (Apr 21, 2012)

JStraitiff said:


> As for the staining itself you could either just wipe on black water based



Cool, Thank you. If i go with just a stained finish what would you recommend to seal/protect the finish?


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## JStraitiff (Apr 21, 2012)

Probably either tung oil or a satin clear coat.

The satin finish would be best. itll look like this






Sorry about the big pic.


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## Metal_Webb (Apr 21, 2012)

The coloured grain filler probably won't be such a good idea on the mahogany for the reason you mentioned, nothing wrong with experimenting on a scrap bit though.

Oil based stain is probably the way to go. It's easier to get traditional finishes (oils, varnish) to go over an oil based stain in a shorter time period.

How to get the right shade you're after as well? Experiment on a scrap bit. Mix your dyes together being sure to make note of the ratios between the different colours. Can also be used to work out if you want to go for 2 separate staining sessions (more on that below). Also use this to figure out how long you need to leave the stain to soak into the timber to get the colour you want. Too short a time and there will be barely any colour, too long and it will be much darker.

*Staining Advice!*

Make sure you've sanded the timber back to at least 320/400 grit feel free to sand it even further if you want, is free from bumps, rough patches, etc etc. The smoother you get it, the nicer the finished product is going to be.

Try to get the colour on in only one application. Applying a second coat of the same colour is going to block out a lot of grain pattern.

If you want to go for a 2 tone stain, stain first with your backing colour. Lightly sand the body to remove the stain from the high points, leaving stain in the pores of the timber. Apply your top colour and enjoy!

Make sure you have plenty of mineral turpentine on hand for thinning and cleaning. Place your brushes/applicators into a jar of it when you aren't using them. Wipe them dry on a bit of scrap before you commence work though.

*How to Stain!*

1. Get a decent quality brush or foam pad. Load enough stain onto the applicator so that you can cover a fair bit without the stain pooling. Be sure to wear gloves and avoid handling the project with bare hands until stain is totally dry (at least 24 hrs).

2. Spread the stain over the surface. Do only one face at a time and in small enough sections so you can work on it properly.

3. Leave the stain on for as long as you need to get the right colour depth.

4. Use a lint free cloth (heck, even an old cotton t-shirt will do the trick) to wipe the stain off. Going with the grain, rub the stain into the timber. Do it hard to buff the stain off if you want to accentuate any high points.

5. Keep the application, soak in and buffing the same between all steps to get the most consistent finish.

6. Leave the stain to dry. At least 24hours before applying any further finishes.


*Final Finishes*

Most stains aren't going to be able to handle people and things rubbing on them for a long period of time, so you really should look at getting another coat of stuff over the stain. (If you can get your hands on a resistant stain, by all means, use the hell out of that). Don't use stain & varnish, that is pretty much a coloured varnish and is inferior in every way to a separate stain process IMO.

As for coats to put over it, you can use a tung or a linseed oil finish to get that look, as previously said. The linseed will impart a slightly darker tinge to the final product, especially if you use a boiled linseed oil, so bear that in mind.

Linseed on Mahogany (the top piece btw)





Tung Oil on Mahogany:





I'm using linseed on a build atm and I'm quite impressed with how it's doing. Do an initial coat over the stain of about 25% linseed and 75% mineral turpentine. Next coat, up that to 50:50. Do a couple like that and finish off with a coat or two of pure linseed. The more coats of linseed you do, the better and tougher the finish is going to be. The idea of gradually building up the oil in the coat is to give the timber a chance to have the oil seep right into the pores and give protection the whole way through. Wipe off/in any surface excess with a t-shirt. You need to leave linseed to dry for at least a days between coats though, as drying is a very slow process. 

An old adage:
_Once a day for a week
Once a week for a month
Once a month for a year
Once a year forever after_

Probably overkill, but old guys have to be right about this sort of stuff, right? 

Application of tung oil is a similar process (as far as I know) to that of linseed. 

One last note, be sure to leave and rags that you use for staining/oiling laid out flat to dry completely in a well ventilated area (preferably outside). Oil drying is an exothermic process that gives off heat. Though the risk is minimal, the rags can ignite. The other alternative is to place the rags into a bucket full of water once you're done with them.

Most of all.....
Good luck with it and have fun! 

(I think I covered everything )


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## Michael T (Apr 21, 2012)

Thank you Metal Webb, Perfect. Exactly the type of information I was looking for. You sir have been Repped +1


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## Metal_Webb (Apr 21, 2012)

Michael T said:


> Thank you Metal Webb, Perfect. Exactly the type of information I was looking for. You sir have been Repped +1



Thanks mate, it's amazing what one can get typed when you're procrastinating


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