# Who is the closest we have to virtuo in the guitar world.



## jonajon91 (May 4, 2015)

Paganini, Liszt and Chopin will always be remembered through history as the three big virtuoso players who had complete mastery over their instrument. There are always incredibly talented people that shine above the rest, but the music that these people left behind really is the stuff of legend. My point though is that these incredible people almost always have mastered; the piano, the violin or the 'cello (Yo-Yo Ma / Boccherini). I'm wondering who the closest to complete mastery or virtuosity on the guitar or bass. There are four people that come to mind that could be close. First up is jazz fusion guitarist Guthrie Govan, showing a huge range of techniques and fluidity over the instrument, but (please don't throw rocks at me) in my opinion his playing from a composition standpoint can get a little stale, especially with the aristocrats. There is Erland Caspersen (Spawn of possession), a techdeath bassist that rarely plays anymore since he does not know where to take his bass playing anymore, he has basically achieved everything that he wants to on the bass. Ron Jarzombek, guitar nut and probably the best on my little list for composition, delving into the worlds of twelve tone compositions and scoring to clips so accurately that it honestly hurts my head. Finally, there is Josh Martin, probably not the best, but has such a unique playing style that I had to give him such a mention. To be honest, the guitarist/bassist i'm looking for probably wont be in a field of pop/rock/metal/blues ETC, but in the classical guitar world, an area that I will not hesitate to say I know so little about.

Just to clarify what I mean about true virtuosity, watch this. Really scratch your heads on this one, I don't want any _hurr durr tosin huuurrr slap guitar pflllt_.



Ill open the floor to discussion here, i'm quite eager to find some new guitarists or to hear what you think.


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## Enselmis (May 4, 2015)

I think Julian Lage is probably one of the best, if not the best living guitarist. He doesn't get any recognition on this forum because he isn't a metal player, but I've never seen anybody else with that kind versatility and mastery of the instrument with the ear to back it up. He can play ANY style convincingly.


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## fogcutter (May 4, 2015)

Tough question to answer - but I'm gonna back you up on your video: Valentina Lisitsa is such an inspiring player. She's definitely an example of the term "virtuoso". 

For me, one of the key criteria is being "free", for want of a better term. A virtuoso never bumps up against his/her own limitations on the instrument, and can always approach musical ideas and deliver successfully. Now, this is a projected feeling that a listener would ascribe to a player, because I think most of us who play are aware that as we get better, we become more humbled. 

I realize this might not be a good criteria for true-blue Classical people, since improvisation is such a small part of what they do. No doubt that reading, arranging, ensemble playing, and interpretation are key skills; but I personally think that facility with advanced improvisation is the most "virtuosic" skill. 

John Stowell, to me, is a guy who I think can deliver in a lot of musical situations, and do so with amazing results. Virtuoso, IMO.


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## MaxOfMetal (May 4, 2015)

Being an amazing player is only half the battle, creating exceptional pieces of music that stand the test of time is important when calling someone a virtuoso. 

To that end, and this might be skewed as a lot of newer guys don't go as far back and thus haven't had the opportunity to stand the test of time, a guy like Stevie Ray Vaughn is just as eligible as more technically superior players and perhaps even more so. The guy really could play just about anything and his catalog is still being fleshed out by bother listeners and musicians today. Just using him as an example. 

Expanding on that concept, one of the reasons we know of the three you mentioned is that they wrote wonderful, complex pieces of music that even non-musicians can greatly enjoy. While their mastery of the technical side cannot be questioned it was merely an extension of their writing abilities.


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## JSanta (May 4, 2015)

Someone like Frank Vignola comes to mind.


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## frahmans (May 4, 2015)

Stanley Jordan - one of the best guitarists with really wicked composition. doing all the things the kids do nowadays a long time back for a long time nd a lot better too.

such as his rendition of stairway to heaven 

http://youtu.be/NeooHiX4oH0


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## BucketheadRules (May 4, 2015)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Expanding on that concept, one of the reasons we know of the three you mentioned is that they wrote wonderful, complex pieces of music that even non-musicians can greatly enjoy.



Totally this. Which is why Malmsteen doesn't count.

Not sure I know any virtuoso players who do write music that non-musicians like though... 

Sounds strange, but my best suggestion is Nuno Bettencourt...


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## Mprinsje (May 4, 2015)

maybe steve vai?


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## John_Strychnine (May 4, 2015)

Totally not metal but..

George Benson, That man can PLAY and can write music. A very difficult equilibrium for the modern player it would seem.


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## Malkav (May 4, 2015)

Shawn Lane

First you see him and it's "HOLY .... HE'S FAST" and then you start to dig into the actual phrasing, concepts and composition and realise that he was something beyond comprehension. He was also an exceptional pianist, every bit as ridiculous on it as he was on guitar.

He even has an immense backstory filled with life throwing tons of .... situations at him and yet he constantly rose to the occasion, and remained a humble and gentle person throughout. He had an eidetic memory and could read mountains of books in the space of days with massive recall ability, I actually think he may have had a mild case of Aspergers really.

Admittedly he's dead, but he's closer to our current generations than the aforementioned virtuosos


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## 7 Strings of Hate (May 4, 2015)

This is a loaded question. My friends have asked me who the best guitar player in the world is.

The RIGHT answer is that there are thousands of guitarists out there that are the best guitar player in the world. Once you hit a certain level, each of these guys can play the others stuff. 

This becomes a matter of flavor and taste. Its not a contest. There is no "better" or "winning" when it comes to art. Its a question without an answer.

There are many players that write something the technical guys cant. And vice versa. Why not skip the pointless question and just enjoy some tunes


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## liamh (May 4, 2015)

Pat Metheny
I often forget how good he is at guitar because his compositions are so impressive


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## source field (May 4, 2015)

Highly advanced players who wrote compositions and play complex stuff that even non-musicians can greatly enjoy?

Tommy Emmanuel, Chet Atkins, Larry Carlton, Wes Montgomery, Pat Metheny, George Benson.

Tommy Emmanuel is a guy with an acoustic guitar where you can take the whole family and generations of the family will all find something good in what he does, whether they play or not. Hes such a great communicator.


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## redstone (May 4, 2015)

As far as I know, in a matter of phrasing freedom, Alexey Zimakov was the closest to the "I can play everything at high speed" level. His left hand was very developed and his right hand, even though I could suggest more audacious finger picking techniques, could follow the left anywhere (finger picking is easier but well..). In comparison, Shawn Lane's right hand had shortcomings. Other players I could think about have at least left or right hands shortcomings (oparin, harrison...). However as a classical player, Zimakov vibrato was pretty basic, so... I don't know. Anyways, since you're looking for unheard players, try Zimakov, he rarely shows his full skills though.


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## guitarfan85 (May 4, 2015)

Yngwies concerto suite doesn't count? That fact that his timing in that show is not perfectly robotic, makes him perfect human in my book. Thus making him a virtuoso


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## leftyguitarjoe (May 4, 2015)

I'll second Tommy Emmanuel. 

I'd also like to nominate Guthrie Govan.


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## TheHandOfStone (May 4, 2015)

Emmanuel, Govan, and Lane are the three I always think of. You can hear the 100,000s of hours they've put into their instrument for sheer love and against diminishing returns.


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## Dumple Stilzkin (May 5, 2015)

Allan Holdsworth should get a mention.


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## Thorerges (May 5, 2015)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Being an amazing player is only half the battle, creating exceptional pieces of music that stand the test of time is important when calling someone a virtuoso.



I am afraid you are not thinking of the academic term "virtuoso".  In fact reading this entire thread, seems that you're not the only one. 

*The fact of the matter is the term 'virtuoso' means nothing more than technical ability.* Malmsteen is by definition, a virtuoso. Same with Michael Angelo Batio, Tosin Abasi and Steve Vai, Paul Gilbert etc... In fact, virtuosity was considered derogatory for much of western music history. I copied this off wikipedia, so everyone can see:

*Johann Kuhnau in his The Musical Charlatan (Der musikalische Quack-Salber, 1700) defined the "true virtuoso" once again emphasizing theory ("der wahre Virtuose") describing the "highly gifted musician" ("der glückselige Musicus") or "performer virtuoso" as having nothing more than practical facility.*

*Pejorative connotations started in this epoch exemplified by new German expressions such as "Virtuosenmachwerk" (piece of routine display)
*

I know wikipedia is not exactly academic (even though most professors use it liberally), but here is a passage by Sudip Bose that is also relevant. 

_"The 19th century was the golden age of the virtuoso: the violinist or pianist who traveled from one European town to the next, dazzling audiences with heroic displays of skill. Paganini (1782&#8211;1840) was the greatest of them all, launching his concert career at the age of 27, playing his own works, which were *filled with every difficulty imaginable: incredible leaps from note to note; lengthy passages involving double- or triple-stops (the playing of two- or three-note chords at once); runs involving octaves and the palm-stretching interval called the tenth; rapid left-hand pizzicato (that is, plucking the strings with the left hand rather than the right&#8212;a terribly difficult thing to do); artificial harmonics (the whistling effect produced when one finger is placed on a string while a second hovers just barely above that same string, the fleshy fingertip making the slightest contact with gut or steel).* Whether or not these effects can be seen as tricks, Paganini was viewed in his day as a genuine artist, not merely as a trickster."_

Clearly, the description of virtuosity in Paganini's playing sounds impressive, but I would be hard-pressed to find a description of Rusty Cooley (who is considered boring for many people), Malmsteen (same thing) or anyone else that was different. All these guitarist put in an insane amount of work and are doing indescribably difficult things on the guitar. 

Thanks to YouTube though, we have become desensitized to how amazing these players are (technically at least).


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## HoneyNut (May 5, 2015)

In my honest opinion, we do have a lot of virtuosos. It makes sense if you are starting from a humble perspective. The guitar is not an easy instrument to master. The first step itself takes a lifetime, meaning technicality. 

I have never seen my friend who plays the piano ever practice scales or "runs" to a metronome just to be able to play it fluently and fast. Plus, I doubt if he ever thought about carpal tunnel syndrome. On the other hand, some of us practice those "master of puppets" lick for ages and still can't play it. 



Now, becoming a virtuoso at jazz guitar might require me to start at a young age and work up to that level once i am an adult. Same with the classical guitar, and of course, the rock/shred guitar. These styles are much exclusive almost like being a new instrument altogether and requires a lifetime of dedication for each. It's unfair to ask for 1 virtuoso in 3 different styles/instruments just because they have an overlapping qualifier.

With that, I think Vai is the modern electric guitar wizard. That guy knows a lot. I am surprised that more people do not notice that aspect of vai. He is involved with everything when it comes to his music production/shows etc... He is underrated in some degrees.

(and also all the others - g benson, pat martino, jeff loomis, guthrie, macalpine, kurt rosenwinkle, petrucci, malmsteen, satch, etc etc etc!!)

Have an awesome week guys!


edit : (al di meola, paco di lucia, john machlaughin, holdsworth, django, l carlton, l ritenour ...come on...these guys are all virtuosos....All of them deserve an applaud right now, plus some of these guys here on these boards!)

(maxofmetal, mr big noodles, mprisj, jsanta, omega slayer, solodini, hehasthejazzjands, hand of stone, bulb, jonajon91 +more)

edit 2: see "polytheism".

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/members/mprinsje.html


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## TRENCHLORD (May 5, 2015)

I'm especially fond of Satriani's playing. He finds so many different textures to intermingle, and his songs are just wildly different from one another stylistically. (within the rock/blues/metal realm anyways)


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## Louis Cypher (May 5, 2015)

I agree with Max's point
think you only need to look at Youtube for 10 secs and you can find a player who is techincally incredibile and you think why on earth are they not on the cover of magazines etc etc but the reason they aren;t is coz they lack the more important skill that Paganni, Lizst, Vivaldi had in that their is nothing memorable about their song writing. Its the true genius of someone like Vivaldi that he can write such complex and techincally difficult music that to a non musician it still sounds beautiful. Writing music thats not techincal for techincal sakes but because its expressing a musical idea that can be understood by anyone at some level, thats the skill for me that shows the sign of a real virtuoso. 

Anyway on point I would agree with Vai as prob one of the best modern virtuosos, Jason Becker for sure. Al DiMeola, Paco De Lucia from a non metal stand point.


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## Lorcan Ward (May 5, 2015)

I can think of lots of "virtuoso" electric players but from a live impress the audience point of view I'd have to say Steve Vai. The guy has a command over his instrument live that very few guitar players have. He mixes in acrobatics, costumes and band interaction while playing in some very unorthodox ways(with his tongue, whammy bar, feedback etc). He's an entertainer/master than appeals to both musicians and non-musicians.

Its also worth noting there were lots of composers/players just like Paganini, Liszt and Chopin but they didn't stand the test of time.


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## fps (May 5, 2015)

Jeesan said:


> I have never seen my friend who plays the piano ever practice scales or "runs" to a metronome just to be able to play it fluently and fast. Plus, I doubt if he ever thought about carpal tunnel syndrome. On the other hand, some of us practice those "master of puppets" lick for ages and still can't play it.
> 
> 
> http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/members/mprinsje.html



Then you haven't watched them do their practising, simple. A lot of people start playing the piano at 6 or so, they do basic scales very early, then they're learning pieces, aural and advanced techniques as they go up the grades.


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## JohnIce (May 5, 2015)

Clearly:


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## jonajon91 (May 5, 2015)

7 Strings of Hate said:


> This is a loaded question. My friends have asked me who the best guitar player in the world is.
> 
> The RIGHT answer is that there are thousands of guitarists out there that are the best guitar player in the world. Once you hit a certain level, each of these guys can play the others stuff.
> 
> ...



The fact that it is a loaded question is exactly why we should talk about it, we're on a forum to talk music so why shun the idea to do just that? What I'm trying to say (and perhaps didn't do so well in the OP) is that there are always these fantastic guitarists that people are naming one after the other and perhaps there are ones hidden there that I have not listened to yet (it's been a busy few days, ill catch up soon) that could be. Like with Valentina Lisitsa, absolutely phenomenal player, but compared to Horowitz, not quite as good and when you compare Gorowitz to Liszt ... not quite as good. I'm trying to find this extra level that is above phenomenal, this extra level that perhaps only four or five people might reach per century across the whole board of music. Has anyone ever gotten there on guitar?


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## JustMac (May 5, 2015)

In the metal realm, I think Christian Muenzner- for sheer ability, he has that 'unattainable' extra level that is just incredible to witness.


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## Dyingsea (May 5, 2015)

Malkav said:


> Shawn Lane
> 
> First you see him and it's "HOLY .... HE'S FAST" and then you start to dig into the actual phrasing, concepts and composition and realise that he was something beyond comprehension. He was also an exceptional pianist, every bit as ridiculous on it as he was on guitar.
> 
> ...



I was going to write something very similar and very much agree. That and the fact that no one has ever sounded like him and there are few guys who can even do a decent cover of his more intermediate pieces.


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## Necropitated (May 5, 2015)

Definitely Guthrie Govan


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## cwhitey2 (May 5, 2015)

I really judge a great guitarist by there writing skillz. Some of my friends are great players and can play anything, but they cant write for .... and that's half of being a great guitarist IMO


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## Given To Fly (May 5, 2015)

jonajon91 said:


> The fact that it is a loaded question is exactly why we should talk about it, we're on a forum to talk music so why shun the idea to do just that? What I'm trying to say (and perhaps didn't do so well in the OP) is that there are always these fantastic guitarists that people are naming one after the other and perhaps there are ones hidden there that I have not listened to yet (it's been a busy few days, ill catch up soon) that could be. Like with Valentina Lisitsa, absolutely phenomenal player, but compared to Horowitz, not quite as good and when you compare Gorowitz to Liszt ... not quite as good. I'm trying to find this extra level that is above phenomenal, this extra level that perhaps only four or five people might reach per century across the whole board of music. Has anyone ever gotten there on guitar?



Music and musicians have come a long way since Paganini, Liszt, and Chopin. In terms of technical ability, I would say there are many players who are better violinists and pianists. Ian Pace comes to mind. As for guitarists, Jorge Caballero is truly unique talent. I think he over extends himself at times but he is still a great player. In realm of electric guitar, Steve Vai is actually much better than he lets on. If you read his article "Tempo Mental" you will get an idea of how his mind works concerning rhythm. One of his more impressive feats was premiering "Fire Strings" (I can't remember the French title) which he has not released as far as I know, though some people do have the recording. The score is available and he plays what is written more accurately than I was expecting to say the least.


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## redstone (May 5, 2015)

Sure, if Paganini played his caprices at Leonidas speed, he would have been burned right away  (and re-bam ! Even Kogan can't touch that)


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## GalacticDeath (May 5, 2015)

I think Allan Holdsworth is a worthy contender. His playing is so unique that nobody sounds like him. He's world renowned for his outside playing and left hand legato technique. He has inspired many musicians not only in the jazz genre but also plenty of rock and metal. Also not only is his playing phenomenal but his guitar tones are very distinct as well.


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## Blasphemer (May 5, 2015)

I'd have to say Ana Vidovic



When I was studying classical guitar, she was pretty much recognized in my degree group as the queen of the classical world. Ridiculously emotive, great tone, and just amazing to listen to.


Also, +1 for Holdsworth. Dudes a freaking legend and more or less created and entire style of playing thats fairly widespread today


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## edsped (May 5, 2015)

Blues Saraceno


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## Lorcan Ward (May 5, 2015)

redstone said:


> Sure, if Paganini played his caprices at Leonidas speed, he would have been burned right away  (and re-bam ! Even Kogan can't touch that)



Wow that was fast. Too fast even for a piece like that but that was insane.


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## redstone (May 5, 2015)

He plays with Yuja Wang now ! I think they need to work more to really be a great duo but man.. Wang and Kavakos together.. wet dream.



Blasphemer said:


> I'd have to say Ana Vidovic



Too slow.


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## cip 123 (May 5, 2015)

Jason Becker maybe? He had the skill when he could play he could go from speed metal to a Bach piece and still be totally comfortable, and definitely has some great songwriting skills even though he can't physically play.

Devin Townsend, should also be mentioned. He can definitely play technical stuff, but he really writes some masterful stuff, that I honestly think people will look back on in years to come and say that they're great songs.


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## meteor685 (May 5, 2015)

Per Nillson
Jakub zytecki
Derek Taylor
Guthrie Govan.
Allan Holdsworth
Frank Gambale..
Scott Mishoe
Shawn Lane

As far as Guthrie goes, i'll just leave this here, 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDvZiPPobcs


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## brett8388 (May 5, 2015)

No one mentions Joe Satriani? Skills, catchy tunes, etc. Accessible music and he can play anything.


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## Andromalia (May 5, 2015)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Being an amazing player is only half the battle, creating exceptional pieces of music that stand the test of time is important when calling someone a virtuoso.



To the best of my knowledge, being a virtuoso is only about playing the instrument, not about writing music. Some aformentioned classics also were very good instrument players but there is to my knowledge nolink between that and virtuosity.

That said, I'll offer this guy: 



He's on the top of today classical concertists.


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## TRENCHLORD (May 5, 2015)

brett8388 said:


> No one mentions Joe Satriani? Skills, catchy tunes, etc. Accessible music and he can play anything.



Actually he was my pick on page 1, and a guy before me included him also.  Great pick by all of us .


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## Thorerges (May 5, 2015)

JustMac said:


> In the metal realm, I think Christian Muenzner- for sheer ability, he has that 'unattainable' extra level that is just incredible to witness.



He is extremely capable, but when you compare him to some other players mentioned in this thread I think he falls a bit short of being in that top 0.1%.


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## beyondcosmos (May 5, 2015)

Blasphemer said:


> I'd have to say Ana Vidovic
> 
> 
> 
> When I was studying classical guitar, she was pretty much recognized in my degree group as the queen of the classical world. Ridiculously emotive, great tone, and just amazing to listen to.




Beyond amazing.

To throw my two cents in, I think Chris Broderick is up there in terms of how many different things he can play on guitar and on how many different types of guitars he can play them. That being said, I'm sure he's just the tip of the iceberg, as everyone posting the classical guitarists has shown me.


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## coffeeflush (May 6, 2015)

dave fiuczynski


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## heregoesnothing (May 6, 2015)

source field said:


> Tommy Emmanuel is a guy with an acoustic guitar where you can take the whole family and generations of the family will all find something good in what he does, whether they play or not. Hes such a great communicator.




You obviously haven't seen *this guy*


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## stradfire (May 6, 2015)

+1 for *Steve Vai*. His 30 Hour Workout helped me realize who I am. His composing skills are great. Some of his stuff is way out there and difficult to listen to, but then there's the tunes of his that have amazing memorable refrains mixed with his insane technique. First that comes to mind is this:


I remember how pissed I was when I first heard this song because the notes he uses in the refrain are similar to the ones I used in the early versions of my composition "Lifesong"'s refrain, which I came up with before I knew who Vai was. My fourteen-year-old brain thought I'd be accused of copycatting, so over the years I expanded on the song and now it's its own thing, and it's _still_ not completely finished. I still have to compose the rest of the instrumentation to go with the guitar part! Cellos and harps and flutes, oh my!

It's to be seen if Vai's work will stand the test of time. It's tough with guitar because there are crazy people out there who hate the sound of it, from twangy to distorted and everything between. The difference with guitar and the fretless instruments utilized in timeless classical pieces is that when something is fretless, it is comparable to the human voice - the instrument everyone is born with and can relate to. I'd love to someday commission a fretless eight-string acoustic guitar, but the thought of dealing with it makes me want to slit my wrists. I think acoustic guitar music will last longer than electric guitar music simply because the technology involved is constantly evolving and changing, just like iPhones and Windows operating systems are constantly becoming obsolete. An acoustic instrument is timeless in and of itself. It's pure. It's wood (or carbon fiber if you're a badass). 

My goal as an aspiring composer is to create timeless music. Has been since I got "the bug" and strove to be as or more technically brilliant as/than John Petrucci. I've calmed down a little since I was in high school and as it's been mentioned before, it's not a competition. The only person you're in competition with is yourself yesterday. 

*Andy McKee* is well on his way to becoming a timeless virtuoso composer. I mean, hello...


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## JustMac (May 6, 2015)

Thorerges said:


> He is extremely capable, but when you compare him to some other players mentioned in this thread I think he falls a bit short of being in that top 0.1%.



Perhaps when put alongside classical players, but I think his compositional and laser-precise technique is the best in the genre. Go to 1:38 on this video, to me Vai has never composed anything as breathtaking (seeing as his name keeps cropping up).


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## The Mirror (May 6, 2015)

I'd actually name an "anti-virtuoso"-virtuoso: 

Tommy Emmanuel. Guy knows basically nothing about music theory and learned everything just by listening to the tunes he loved as a teeny, but is now considered to be one of, if not the, best dreadnought guitar players. 

He's got amazing right hand techniques and his style of playing the guitar like piano is above wonderful. 

In addition he can write some damn fine tunes: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1pS_6hErDA


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## beerandbeards (May 6, 2015)

Joseph Anthony Jacobi Passalacqua or as you may know him as Joe Pass


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## Veldar (May 6, 2015)

Jaco was on bass.


_Posted from Sevenstring.org App for Android_


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## MAJ Meadows SF (May 6, 2015)

The Maestro Alex Gregory? Aka, Pretentioso c*cks*ckeratti? 


I think there's more than one, but I lean towards Vai, not because of his command of the instrument (up close live is quite the experience), but his orchestral compositions and ability to make arangements, both complex and simple. And much of that comes from time with Frank Zappa. I think there's many great guitar players and virtuosos, from the many mentioned to old classics. Here's an old one who influenced a lot of playing: Andres Segovia.


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## OmegaSlayer (May 6, 2015)

Jason Becker is the virtuoso.

Also Jeesan, I'm very humbled and flattered, and I would like to have some of the drugs you got yesterday


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## Noxon (May 6, 2015)

No Commander in Chief?  













Before you lynch me, I'm kidding, guys.


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## JustMac (May 6, 2015)

beerandbeards said:


> Joseph Anthony Jacobi Passalacqua or as you may know him as Joe Pass



The album 'Virtuoso' is pretty telling!


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## MaxOfMetal (May 6, 2015)

Yeah yeah yeah, dictionary definition and all that jazz, but if you read the OP, that's not what he was looking for.


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## Kwert (May 6, 2015)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Yeah yeah yeah, dictionary definition and all that jazz, but if you read the OP, that's not what he was looking for.





Right, but that isn't virtuosity. He should have asked who we thought was the most complete musician in the guitar world. There are plenty of instrumental virtuoso players who do nothing for me musically. I'm a classically trained cellist by trade, and we see kids like this all the time. Virtuosity has nothing to do with one's compositional prowess or emotional impact - it has to do with their ability to create pyrotechnics on their instrument with no effort.


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## MaxOfMetal (May 6, 2015)

Kwert said:


> Right, but that isn't virtuosity. He should have asked who we thought was the most complete musician in the guitar world. There are plenty of instrumental virtuoso players who do nothing for me musically. I'm a classically trained cellist by trade, and we see kids like this all the time. Virtuosity has nothing to do with one's compositional prowess or emotional impact - it has to do with their ability to create pyrotechnics on their instrument with no effort.



Ugh, semantics.


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## Randy (May 6, 2015)

Almost 60 posts and no Lucas Mann?


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## chinnybob (May 6, 2015)

I know Steve Vai has had a couple of mentions already, and I'm not even a massive fan of his but he gets my vote purely for this:



I think as a composition that's right up there with the best I've heard in any genre.

For what it's worth though I don't think that any guitarist will ever be considered in the same way as Mozart / Chopin / Bach et al. I can't quite articulate why, maybe it's that guitarists aren't often thought of as composers?


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## GenghisCoyne (May 6, 2015)

i have to throw another andy mckee hat into the ring. I agree that pretty much everyone listed is incredible, but i think mckee is the best at the whole post Michael hedges solo acoustic thing. If i were trying to think of a musician to show a non musician to get them to say "wow thats impressive" i think itd be him.


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## Chemical-Pony (May 6, 2015)

chinnybob said:


> I know Steve Vai has had a couple of mentions already



Unfortunately, I find almost everything he's done completely unlistenable. The above piece has one phrase which doesn't go anywhere, so after that it's just nine minutes of guitar wankery. I know he's an amazing guitarist though, his improvisations on the G3 shows are amazing.

It isn't that I only like music with simple melodies. Ron Jarzombek's 12-tone stuff isn't tuneful in a conventional sense but I find it fascinating.


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## Konfyouzd (May 6, 2015)

Becker...


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## Konfyouzd (May 6, 2015)

Randy said:


> Almost 60 posts and no Lucas Mann?





Laughing at this made my face hurt.


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## mgh (May 6, 2015)

just to add to some points or add a little difference...
many amazing pieces with some elements of virtuosity in their composition have been written by composers for not their instrument; which is why Liszt, for example, was an amazing virtuoso pianist but is chiefly remembered for his piano playing and pieces, and his orchestral works are generally regarded as mediocre; ditto Chopin (his piano concerti should be standard repertoire except the orchestration is not up to the level of his piano composition).

Therefore virtuosity by itself is no guarantee of immortality. However look at, say, Prokofiev, who wrote acclaimed concerti for piano, Violin and cello, and also great orchestral works from ballet to film scores to symphonies. True mastery of composition is different to virtuosity.

Which is the point that people mentioning SRV and others have made. For me Steve Vai is the one who fits this larger remit the best amongst current guitar players...everything from Zappa to Whitesnake!


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## Konfyouzd (May 6, 2015)

Shankle!!!!


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## oompa (May 6, 2015)

My answer would be no. There is none. Not like Lisitsa. There just isn't. And there are a few other pianists to whom there is no equal in guitar. I think it might have to do with the actual type of sound being designed for and associated with piano not to mention it has stronger roots in piano.

You won't find rock pianists like Hendrix either, but it makes sense to me.

For genres like Jazz on the other hand they can all mash up and you can gurgle Jacos and Hiromis and Holdsworths all you want, but if I understand you correctly then my opinion is that there are no players like that in guitar, I definitely do not agree that Vai for example is anything like that whatsoever.. but it is rather down to history and preconceived stuff. And my 2 cents only.


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## Richie666 (May 6, 2015)

liamh said:


> Pat Metheny
> I often forget how good he is at guitar because his compositions are so impressive


 
He's up there but I think he's a bit too "loose" of a player for the title if we're choosing just one. Absolutely genius and very technical but he is a very free player.

I saw him with the Unity group half a year ago and they were incredible!


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## 7 Strings of Hate (May 6, 2015)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Ugh, semantics.



Yea. Stupid words with proper definitions that are being used incorrectly


You all realize this is 100% subjective, correct? So when I tell you how I would consider Adam Jones to be more complete than say, Satch, you cant tell me I'm wrong.


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## Given To Fly (May 7, 2015)

Andromalia said:


> To the best of my knowledge, being a virtuoso is only about playing the instrument, not about writing music. Some aformentioned classics also were very good instrument players but there is to my knowledge nolink between that and virtuosity.
> 
> That said, I'll offer this guy:
> 
> ...




I studied with Thomas for a semester! Good guy, good player!


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## heregoesnothing (May 7, 2015)

Allan Holdsworth, Paco De Lucia, John Scofield, Sylvain Luc, Lenny Breau, Bireli Lagrene, Scott Henderson, Scotty Anderson, Frank Gambale, Shawn Lane, Guthrie Govan, Alex Machacek, Pat Metheny, Tommy Emmanuel, Jason Becker, Yngwie Malmsteen, Steve Vai. 

They're all virtuosos with very different musical personalities.

I really like jazz-fusion guys like Pat Metheny, Scott Henderson and Sylvain Luc. They seems to understands the concept of less-is-more, valuing spaces and pauses as much as they do the sounds that fill those spaces the rest of the time.

I guess i'm the only one here who doesn't dig Ron Jarzombek. To me he sound like a ambitious metal player who was in love with dissonance because he felt he had to be different and "sophisticated" from everything which came before (or after) him. Then again, I'm not really a metal fan and many 20th century composers. Modern composer like Ravel is more my preference. But of course Jarzombek is a virtuoso. Just not my cup of tea

I like Scott Henderson's quote: "I have a lot more respect for the composers who were using their ears and at least a tiny bit of theory to compose with, than the guys who used math and numbers to come up with notes."


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## ChaNce (May 7, 2015)

> I know wikipedia is not exactly academic (even though most professors use it liberally)



Nope. No professor uses wiki as a source for theory building. They may create topics and/or edit mistakes on existing pages, but that's it. 

Any professor who used Wiki as a primary source for research would be laughed out of the room. 

I'm a professor


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## thatguyupthere (May 7, 2015)

I'm absolutely astonished that nobody has even hinted at Rick Graham. That dude can play, whether or not he can make timeless music is irrelivent to the now.

And Marco Sfgoli? Hello? That dude has so much soul.

And EVH. sure he didn't invent tapping, but he's more or less the reason it has bled into popular metal


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## Noxon (May 7, 2015)

Has anyone thrown Petrucci's name out there?


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## USMarine75 (May 7, 2015)

Has anyone consulted the Rolling Stones Top 100 list yet? lol

For me it's EVH, Becker, SRV, Gilmour, and Hendrix. Maybe Petrucci? They transcended their peers and are the Tier 1 virtuosos. I look at what Becker was doing at 17 (only 3 years of material!) and wonder what could have been!? Same with Hendrix... only 3 years of material. Imagine what Hendrix could have done with a Kemper or Axe-FX lol.

Second tier is full of talent, but i just don't know if they transcend their contemporaries (e.g. Loomis, Romeo, Moore, Vivaldi, Buckethead, Friedman, Forte, etc). Hell the kids from Polyphia are freaks! But 10 years from now will we be referring to any of them as game changers? 

Of course, with respect to other genres you have the Kings, Segovia, etc. But I'll leave that discussion open for those of you more versed in their works...


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## JustMac (May 7, 2015)

USMarine75 said:


> Polyphia...gamechangers.



No, we won't!

And right on, guy that said Paco de Lucia, I've been watching videos of him recently and I'm just amazed at how immensely talented he was, true proficiency at the highest level. He really was an embodiment of pure and utter dedication to an instrument, and that's so inspiring.


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## guitarfan85 (May 7, 2015)

Sorry but I think of Joe satriani as nothing more than a fill-in studio musician Or session guitarist. Not a virtuoso.


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## pwsusi (May 7, 2015)

Tony MacAlpine


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## cip 123 (May 10, 2015)

Ted Greene, for sheer knowledge and technique in his style at least he wasn't a shredder but if you've ever read his books or seen him play, he's just crazy.

Pat Martino as well is just a crazy player. Saw Lee Ritnouer was putting an album of guitar greats together and nobody wanted to play with Martino, because the dude will outshine anyone.


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## Sumsar (May 10, 2015)

For bass I would say Tony Levin. The guy has played in a lot of different settings and he has been very innovative over the ~40 years he has been playing.

For playing guitar I would also go with Guthrie Govan although in terms of composition he is not that mind blowing.

From a compositional standpoint I would maybe say Ihsahn? He has contributed alot to several genres over the last ~20 years and have never really done the same thing twice. His technique is pretty bad but he seems pretty free to write whatever he wants to.


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## ENGLShred7 (May 10, 2015)

From a technical standpoint, Emil Werstler. For me, he may be the best guitarist in the genre, and he's certainly one of the most underrated. He's also got one of those signature sounds, you know it's him when you hear his playing.

https://youtu.be/vFHxkxNTP7k


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## Sumsar (May 10, 2015)

Hmm Mattias Ia Eklundh Is maybe even better - because he is doing alot of original things with the guitar and I think he can play pretty much everything.


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## Chemical-Pony (May 10, 2015)

guitarfan85 said:


> Sorry but I think of Joe satriani as nothing more than a fill-in studio musician Or session guitarist. Not a virtuoso.



He may not be the fastest or flashiest but that's not what he's about. I think he's one of the few rock intrumentalists who can actually write memorable music that non-guitarists enjoy. So hardly a 'studio musician'.

It's unfair to compare him technically to the younger guitarists around now. You need to look back to the 80s to see how influential he was.


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## JustMac (May 10, 2015)

Sumsar said:


> Hmm Mattias Ia Eklundh Is maybe even better - because he is doing alot of original things with the guitar and I think he can play pretty much everything.



That dude is f*cking ridiculous. I thought I knew about extended technique on guitar but seriously.... Incredible player


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## Thorerges (May 10, 2015)

ChaNce said:


> Nope. No professor uses wiki as a source for theory building. They may create topics and/or edit mistakes on existing pages, but that's it.
> 
> Any professor who used Wiki as a primary source for research would be laughed out of the room.
> 
> I'm a professor



As a source for theory building? What is that? To get background information on something quickly, there would be no reason not to. Also, I happen to use wikipedia


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## guitarfan85 (May 11, 2015)

ENGLShred7 said:


> From a technical standpoint, Emil Werstler. For me, he may be the best guitarist in the genre, and he's certainly one of the most underrated. He's also got one of those signature sounds, you know it's him when you hear his playing.
> 
> https://youtu.be/vFHxkxNTP7k



Yes emil is the man. He's a culmination of all different influences. He's very melodic as well


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## ArtDecade (May 11, 2015)

guitarfan85 said:


> Sorry but I think of Joe satriani as nothing more than a fill-in studio musician Or session guitarist. Not a virtuoso.



You've said some really off the wall stuff on this forum before... but this has to be near the top of your list.


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## crik (May 11, 2015)

my money is on
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1ssR_oRvv8


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## crik (May 11, 2015)

for electric guitar? 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bcTju0HfD8


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## Zalbu (May 11, 2015)

Django Reinhardt? The dude basically created a whole new genre with two fingers on his left hand.


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## guitarfan85 (May 11, 2015)

ArtDecade said:


> You've said some really off the wall stuff on this forum before... but this has to be near the top of your list.



Not sure what your talking about. Anyways, yeah. Joes music doesn't do anything for me. I'm not bashing him, but I just don't see "it".

Sure he's got a lot of fancy tricks, including alot of whammy wankage, which is cool and all. (Not sure who takes the cake on whammy wankage, him or vai?) But I've never been moved by his music. Not to mention his tone is too digital and unnatural sounding.

How about this, I'll give you a chance to change my mind with one song. or even two. Embed a youtube video on here of a song that shows his virtuosity. (You cannot use flying in a blue dream, or any other popular song. Choose a lesser known, deep cut track please) If you will.


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## ArtDecade (May 11, 2015)

guitarfan85 said:


> Not sure what your talking about. Anyways, yeah. Joes music doesn't do anything for me. I'm not bashing him, but I just don't see "it".
> 
> Sure he's got a lot of fancy tricks, including alot of whammy wankage, which is cool and all. (Not sure who takes the cake on whammy wankage, him or vai?) But I've never been moved by his music. Not to mention his tone is too digital and unnatural sounding.
> 
> How about this, I'll give you a chance to change my mind with one song. or even two. Embed a youtube video on here of a song that shows his virtuosity. (You cannot use flying in a blue dream, or any other popular song. Choose a lesser known, deep cut track please) If you will.



You called him a studio / session guitarist - in spite of the fact that he in the best selling rock instrumentalist of all time. He was the guitar instructor for Steve Vai, Andy Timmons, Kirk Hammett, Charlie Hunter, Alex Skolnick and many, many more top notch musicians. He is a virtuoso. You don't have to like his music, but there is no denying the influence that he has had on a generation of players - and generations to come.

Can he have crap tone? Sometimes. But who didn't have an over-processed tone at some point in the mid-80s?


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## bhakan (May 11, 2015)

I feel like the issue with assigning a modern guitar virtuoso is that modern, guitar based music has diversified so much compared to the classical examples you mentioned. I'm by no means an expert in classical music, but while classical music has some of the most skilled composers and musicians in the world, it still seems to have a more defined set of rules that you can use to better compare musicians on their virtuosity. 

With guitar right now, how do you compare a player like Guthrie to someone doing percussive acoustic stuff like Andy Mckee? You can't compare their techniques because they utilize such vastly different styles, and they both write great music that is loved by many. 

If we use solely technique, there are countless amazing musicians who can play just about everything under the sun. If we instead use what was mentioned in the original post about music that is remembered throughout history, it will probably be none of the people in this thread, but the pop culture icons like Jimi Hendrix or Eddie Van Halen.


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## guitarfan85 (May 11, 2015)

ArtDecade said:


> You called him a studio / session guitarist - in spite of the fact that he in the best selling rock instrumentalist of all time. He was the guitar instructor for Steve Vai, Andy Timmons, Kirk Hammett, Charlie Hunter, Alex Skolnick and many, many more top notch musicians. He is a virtuoso. You don't have to like his music, but there is no denying the influence that he has had on a generation of players - and generations to come.
> 
> Can he have crap tone? Sometimes. But who didn't have an over-processed tone at some point in the mid-80s?



To answer your last question, yngwie and Gilmour still had pure tone. Note, none were super-strat players like joe, vai, macalpine, Gilbert who all had unnatural overprocessed tone.

I do understand Joe taught all those players, which yes it is amazing by itself.

I just want to like his music but have found none that moved me.


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## MaxOfMetal (May 11, 2015)

guitarfan85 said:


> To answer your last question, yngwie and Gilmour still had pure tone. Note, none were super-strat players like joe, vai, macalpine, Gilbert who all had unnatural overprocessed tone.



Not to nitpick, but Dave Gilmour was using a San Dimas with a humbucker in the 80's, which would qualify as a super strat.


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## Simic (May 11, 2015)

I love this thread, there are so many names of great musicians Ive never heard of... so much ne material to listen to &#55357;&#56836;


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## Buffnuggler (May 11, 2015)

I think Satriani, despite his impressive pedigree, often gets overshadowed by Vai. It might seem silly, but they are both two of the most prevalent instrumental guitarists and seem to get brought up together quite often. Satch is an awesome guitar player who has released some of the catchiest and most fun instrumental guitar music you'll find, but while he does have virtuoso technique it is simply not at the level of Vai or some of the other guys you'll find mentioned in the same breath. He's often held in that regard by magazines and fans, but I don't know, he just doesn't have the extreme technique or the off the wall artistry that a player like Vai has.

And I'm not even some sort of Vai superfan, I don't listen to him a ton, but I can't deny how utterly insane and inventive that guy is at the guitar. From being Zappa's stunt guitar to Passion and Warfare, one of the most insane guitar albums of all time, his playing is as jawdropping as it gets even if I don't listen to him a ton. I can't think of a more "virtuoso" player than Vai, who not only has perfect technique but also really pushed what the guitar can do. 

Satriani is amazing and again, definitely a virtuoso, but when you consider him in the context of the players he is compared with his technique isn't quite as insane as Govan or Abasi for example, who he just did a GW cover with, and he just doesn't have that unmistakeable yet unnameable artistry you'll find in a guy like Vai. Even Vai's stuff still tries to push boundaries. Satch just boogies, rips it up, and creates really pleasing catchy and nice music, he's well rounded if nothing else but not someone who I think has pushed boundaries in a really long time, if at all. 

And the fact that he is in Chickenfoot really drives that home IMO. Vai has released some questionable material like his stint with DLR, but let's be real, he was the guitar player and he made it work as well as anyone ever could've. And Ladies Night in Buffalo is about as perfect a solo as I can imagine. The DLR album is pretty damn bad but I'll still listen to it just for the ridiculousness of it and the guitar. Even Jason Becker, who is one of my favorite guitar players of all time, couldn't make it work with DLR quite like Vai did (although admittedly the disease was starting to affect him at the time and he still put out some wicked guitar playing on A Little Ain't Enough that adheres to a more traditional template than Vai moreso than actually being inferior). 

And that's not a shot at Becker who I love even more than Vai, Perpetual Burn is as good as it gets and like Hendrix I can only dream of where his playing might've gone. Vai's playing on Eat Em and Smile rips though.


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## Andromalia (May 12, 2015)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Ugh, semantics.





MaxOfMetal said:


> Not to nitpick, but Dave Gilmour was using a San Dimas with a humbucker in the 80's, which would qualify as a super strat.



*cough*


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## guitarfan85 (May 12, 2015)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Not to nitpick, but Dave Gilmour was using a San Dimas with a humbucker in the 80's, which would qualify as a super strat.



No, thats nitpicking alright. Gibsons have humbuckers and sound completely different. They sound natural and "woodey" as compared to the "80's Ibanez super strats Which sound digital and over processed. Fender Strats with humbuckers sound more natural as well. To me and I'm sure most. I think of Ibanez/jackson/Hamer type guitars when I think of a superstrat.


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## Possessed (May 12, 2015)

Evh and malmsteen


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## JustMac (May 12, 2015)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Not to nitpick, but Dave Gilmour was using a San Dimas with a humbucker in the 80's, which would qualify as a super strat.



Weren't you bemoaning 'semantics' earlier in this thread?


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## Chemical-Pony (May 12, 2015)

Are we seriously arguing now about what type of guitars people play? As if that makes a difference to whether or not someone is a 'virtuoso'?


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## octatoan (May 12, 2015)

Tosin is a virtuoso, at least in my book.  And his compositions aren't half bad.

Allan Holdsworth (or Lane!), Tommy Emmanuel, Tosin Abasi, David Gilmour and Christian Muenzner would be my picks of people from widely varying genres each with an almost superhuman mastery of the instrument.

Edit: Mmm Josh Martin too. Guy's awesome.

Edit 2: And Paco! If you haven't heard him, try Mediterranean Sundance.


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## ArtDecade (May 12, 2015)

guitarfan85 said:


> They sound natural and "woodey" as compared to the "80's Ibanez super strats Which sound digital and over processed. Fender Strats with humbuckers sound more natural as well. To me and I'm sure most..



That doesn't make any sense.

It depends completely on what you are running the guitar into and how the sound is amplified. I can make a Fender sound _digital and processed_ if I run it into a Rockman and make the Ibanez sound _natural_ if I run it into a Super Reverb.


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## guitarfan85 (May 12, 2015)

ArtDecade said:


> That doesn't make any sense.
> 
> It depends completely on what you are running the guitar into and how the sound is amplified. I can make a Fender sound _digital and processed_ if I run it into a Rockman and make the Ibanez sound _natural_ if I run it into a Super Reverb.



I doubt it


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## SeditiousDissent (May 12, 2015)

guitarfan85 said:


> They sound natural and "woodey" as compared to the "80's Ibanez super strats *Which sound digital and over processed*.





Wow...just...wow...


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## USMarine75 (May 12, 2015)

guitarfan85 said:


> To answer your last question, yngwie and Gilmour still had pure tone. Note, none were super-strat players like joe, vai, macalpine, Gilbert who all had unnatural overprocessed tone.
> 
> I do understand Joe taught all those players, which yes it is amazing by itself.
> 
> I just want to like his music but have found none that moved me.



dafuq?

1. Your personal opinion of whether music "moves you" does not determine whether someone has talent or is a virtuoso. Music is subjective. Plenty of people were moved by Poison's "Every Rose has its Thorn", but I'd hardly call them virtuosos. IMO I'd say pop, country, and blues genres probably move people more than metal, but I dont know that there is any correlation with meaning/feeling and virtuosity. With respect to Satriani, he doesn't even like being referred to as a shredder, because he is all about tone, melodies, and writing memorable music. 

[youtubevid/VI57QHL6ge0[/MEDIA]
^ melody for days


^ one of my personal favs


^ another fav





(I had trouble only pasting a few... too many to choose from.)

2. Dafug is "pure tone"? You playing a cigar box acoustic guitar, buh? You Robert Johnson? So David Gilmour through a customshop priceless strat and Marshall stack makes him a virtuoso? Put him on my Peavey Wolfgang, G Sytem, and 5150, and he's not? * Isn't a virtuoso, by definition, good because of his talent and not the gear?*


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## n4t (May 12, 2015)

Well this thread has taken a turn for the dumb (guitarfan85 lol). 

1. Frank Zappa
2. Robert Fripp
3. The rest of the people discussed in this thread. Maybe. 


I should qualify though that I give extra points for overall musicianship in addition to ridiculous guitar skills.


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## ArtDecade (May 12, 2015)

n4t said:


> Well this thread has taken a turn for the dumb (guitarfan85 lol).
> 
> 1. Frank Zappa
> 2. Robert Fripp
> ...



Zappa was def a virtuoso composer and a fantastic and innovative musician, but even he couldn't play the parts that he wrote - which is why he hired stunt guitarists (like Vai, Belew, Keneally, etc) and dedicated his latter years to the Synclavier. That said, he was an amazing guitar player and no one really sounds like him - outside his son.


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## Esp Griffyn (May 12, 2015)

Shawn Lane was our greatest, our shining hero in the darkness of dull, uninspiring music. I think Steve Vai's incredible versatility and ability to bend his unique voice into virtually any style of music is very impressive, but if I think "who has the absolute best command over the guitar right now?" my only answer is Rick Graham. He is one of those guys who is just mind-blowing, flawless technique, incredible musicality and a true master of the craft. He is also equally proficient at electric and classical, and has brilliant flamenco techniques too. He is an under-sung master.


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## ArtDecade (May 12, 2015)

Derek Trucks.


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## guitarfan85 (May 12, 2015)

USMarine75 said:


> dafuq?
> 
> 1. Your personal opinion of whether music "moves you" does not determine whether someone has talent or is a virtuoso. Music is subjective. Plenty of people were moved by Poison's "Every Rose has its Thorn", but I'd hardly call them virtuosos. IMO I'd say pop, country, and blues genres probably move people more than metal, but I dont know that there is any correlation with meaning/feeling and virtuosity. With respect to Satriani, he doesn't even like being referred to as a shredder, because he is all about tone, melodies, and writing memorable music.
> 
> ...




So then what defines virtuosity if not meaning/feeling? tone and memorable music As you say? "Da fuq"? So I have decent tone and songs that I think are memorable too, does that make me a virtuoso?

If satch is all about "tone,...." that makes him a virtuoso but David Gilmour isn't a virtuoso even though he has great tone? thats contradictory. David Gilmour has memorable songs and great melodies, but he's not a virtuoso still? "Da fuq"????

I think I'm good because of my talent, that makes me a virtuoso?

Also no one mentioned anything about Joe being a shredder, so not sure why you mentioned that.

We're not talking about songs that move people as a whole, like the poison song. We're talking about solo musicians/guitarists who move people through melody and phrasing Because of their talent. That's what makes a virtuoso. The thing I said about Joe's tone has nothing to do with that, so you connected the wrong dots on that one.

Don't be butt hurt because I think joe is a glorified session guitarist. I am entitled to that belief


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## n4t (May 12, 2015)

guitarfan85 said:


> So then what defines virtuosity if not meaning/feeling? tone and memorable music As you say? "


 
Keep posting, I'm making popcorn.


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## ArtDecade (May 12, 2015)

n4t said:


> Keep posting, I'm making popcorn.









Allow me to join you.


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## guitarfan85 (May 12, 2015)

n4t said:


> Keep posting, I'm making popcorn.



That makes no sense. Did you read what he wrote? He said feeling and meaning doesn't make one a virtuoso. Your cheerleading someone based off of a misquote. Get your pom poms while the popcorn is in the microwace


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## Noxon (May 12, 2015)

I kinda miss the rep system.


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## Buffnuggler (May 12, 2015)

ArtDecade said:


> Zappa was def a virtuoso composer and a fantastic and innovative musician, but even he couldn't play the parts that he wrote - which is why he hired stunt guitarists (like Vai, Belew, Keneally, etc) and dedicated his latter years to the Synclavier. That said, he was an amazing guitar player and no one really sounds like him - outside his son.



Yeah this 100%, Zappa and Fripp are better than being mere technical virtuosos, they are both just absolute geniuses. Zappa's compositional abilities were on the level of someone like Mozart.


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## asher (May 12, 2015)

guitarfan85 said:


> I know your just praying that the mods see your post. They would be so proud. I think they like very cherry lip balm. You'd better use that flavor next time Your down yhere. Oh and some whip cream



 wtf?


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## guitarfan85 (May 12, 2015)

Buffnuggler said:


> Yeah this 100%, Zappa and Fripp are better than being mere technical virtuosos, they are both just absolute geniuses. Zappa's compositional abilities were on the level of someone like Mozart.



Can you post an example/ song of what your talking about? I'm not familiar with their music


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## SeditiousDissent (May 12, 2015)

guitarfan85 said:


> Get your pom poms while the popcorn is in the microwace



Check!






(Those are Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders, for those who aren't familiar with American football.)

*Edit for disclaimer


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## Noxon (May 12, 2015)

guitarfan85 said:


> I know your just praying that the mods see your post. They would be so proud. I think they like very cherry lip balm. You'd better use that flavor next time Your down there. Oh and some whip cream.



Alright, I want to know right now, which one of you guys let it slip that I am that type of girl?


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