# Jackson Multiscale



## EarlWellington (Jun 24, 2016)

Saw this pop up recently... looks like Jackson is entering the world of multiscale.

NAMM: Jackson Enters The Multiscale Arena - I Heart Guitar


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## Winspear (Jun 24, 2016)

Nice to see another seriously scaled 8 string come up as an option to the straight scaled 28" Schecters. Very nice!


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## OmegaSlayer (Jun 24, 2016)

This is much better spec'ed than the Ibby scale wise.


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## Lorcan Ward (Jun 24, 2016)

Its an extra .75" compared to the Ibby and has the perpendicular fret in a much better place. I do find it odd they went for blank boards when Jackson love their inlays.


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## lewis (Jun 24, 2016)

7 string model - 







8 string model - 







pretty sure I read the 7 is a 25.5-27 and the 8 is 25.5-28.

Im excited for the 7 version


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## bostjan (Jun 24, 2016)

I absolutely love this. I wonder what they'll run for a price.


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## lewis (Jun 24, 2016)

bostjan said:


> I absolutely love this. I wonder what they'll run for a price.



the only thing I hate about them is using EMGs  and I wish they went the passive Duncan Nazgul route that their other Jackson models have. I just picked up the slime green non fanned fret version of the blue one (with maple board) and Im tempted to get that blue 7 now to pair with it!!!. What a pair that would be.

would be getting the 8 string Nazgul/Sentient active mount pups put in there though.


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## GuitarBizarre (Jun 24, 2016)

I'm OK with EMGs on longer scale guitars actually - the stronger fundamental makes them a bit more bell like and clear compared to shortscale where they turn into fuzz.


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## GuitarBizarre (Jun 24, 2016)

Also - I like that they did things properly for the 8 string model - I'm not a 28" scale guy for 8 strings, but the fact they didn't just use the same fan on a wider fretboard like Ibanez did means Jackson clearly did their homework.


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## bostjan (Jun 24, 2016)

Actually, this is pretty close to what I expected from Ibanez when they announced they were joining the multiscale community.

I think EMG makes sense for an introductory run. If these sell like crazy, I will assume there will be more pickup options further down the road.


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## Mathemagician (Jun 24, 2016)

That seven looks like very good. It's a nice "safe" option as far as specs & price point, with a really (seemingly) popular fan. I don't own/play any FF, but I would definitely pick it up at a shop & give it a fair shake - which is exactly what this is supposed to do. 

5 years ago if you had told me that brands like Jackson & Ibanez would be putting out affordable 8 strings and fanned options, or that Schecter would have affordable guitars with SS frets I would have looked at you like you were an alien.


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## eaeolian (Jun 24, 2016)

Yeah, I'm pretty surprised that they not only did it, but did it pretty damn well. It's an X Series, so it should be pretty affordable, too.


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## Lorcan Ward (Jun 24, 2016)

lewis said:


> the only thing I hate about them is using EMGs  and I wish they went the passive Duncan Nazgul route that their other Jackson models have. I just picked up the slime green non fanned fret version of the blue one (with maple board) and Im tempted to get that blue 7 now to pair with it!!!. What a pair that would be.
> 
> would be getting the 8 string Nazgul/Sentient active mount pups put in there though.



The reason EMGs are used is because its simple and cheap. You take an oversized soapbar pickup thats designed for an 8 string and can angle it anyway you want because of the blades. No researching or prototyping. Just angle the neck to match the 24th fret and the bridge to match the bridge angle, DONE!. You don't need to care about pole piece alignment, string spacing, offsetting each bobbin etc

With passives it becomes much more more difficult and expensive with just one angle but when you have to make 4 new angled passive pickups specially for a series of guitar that will drive the price way up. Kiesel only made one pickup for each guitar using the neck angle instead of having two because the cost was too much.

Angled passives are going to be the number one thing that hold back or limit multiscale guitars.


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## ThePIGI King (Jun 24, 2016)

25.5" on treble side means I'm not buying one 

I just feel so much more comfortable on a 26.5 or 27 for the higher register. Oh well, good news is, if my 'local' GC gets these, I'll be able to try out a FF!


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## GuitarBizarre (Jun 24, 2016)

Lorcan Ward said:


> The reason EMGs are used is because its simple and cheap. You take an oversized soapbar pickup thats designed for an 8 string and can angle it anyway you want because of the blades. No researching or prototyping. Just angle the neck to match the 24th fret and the bridge to match the bridge angle, DONE!. You don't need to care about pole piece alignment, string spacing, offsetting each bobbin etc
> 
> With passives it becomes much more more difficult and expensive with just one angle but when you have to make 4 new angled passive pickups specially for a series of guitar that will drive the price way up. Kiesel only made one pickup for each guitar using the neck angle instead of having two because the cost was too much.
> 
> Angled passives are going to be the number one thing that hold back or limit multiscale guitars.



Why are you bringing active vs passive into this?

It's blade polepices vs slug/screw polepieces - Whether the electronics are active or not doesn't enter into it in the slightest. 

If you have a single continuous polepiece then the effect of foreshortening from angling that polepiece is nonexistent - there'll always be polepiece under the string. 

If you have separate polepieces for each string, then as you angle the bobbin you have to compensate for the foreshortening.

EMGs are blade polepieces, so that IS why they're commonly used, but the same could be said of an 8 String or 9 string X2N, dimebucker, blackhawks, or whatever, and those are all passive.


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## Lorcan Ward (Jun 24, 2016)

GuitarBizarre said:


> Why are you bringing active vs passive into this?
> 
> It's blade polepices vs slug/screw polepieces - Whether the electronics are active or not doesn't enter into it in the slightest.
> 
> ...





Thats exactly I said in my post. I was quoting the poster who said he wanted a passive Nazgul and I was explaining why its much easier for them to use EMG pickups like Ibanez did because of the blades. "You take an oversized soapbar pickup thats designed for an 8 string and can angle it anyway you want because of the blades"

When people talk about Passives in multiscales are referring 99% of the time to pickups with pole pieces/slugs which the Nazguls have.


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## Captain Butterscotch (Jun 24, 2016)

DAMN, they killed it with this model! Perp fret at the right place, good scale lengths, colors, X-Series price, woods. The only downside is that EMG pickups aren't to my taste, but are an absolutely fine drop in for an angled pickup.


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## eaeolian (Jun 24, 2016)

Lorcan Ward said:


> The reason EMGs are used is because its simple and cheap. You take an oversized soapbar pickup thats designed for an 8 string and can angle it anyway you want because of the blades. No researching or prototyping. Just angle the neck to match the 24th fret and the bridge to match the bridge angle, DONE!. You don't need to care about pole piece alignment, string spacing, offsetting each bobbin etc
> 
> With passives it becomes much more more difficult and expensive with just one angle but when you have to make 4 new angled passive pickups specially for a series of guitar that will drive the price way up. Kiesel only made one pickup for each guitar using the neck angle instead of having two because the cost was too much.
> 
> Angled passives are going to be the number one thing that hold back or limit multiscale guitars.



Someone will make good passives with blade poles for multiscales eventually, but, yeah, you're right.


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## GuitarBizarre (Jun 24, 2016)

Lorcan Ward said:


> Thats exactly I said in my post. I was quoting the poster who said he wanted a passive Nazgul and I was explaining why its much easier for them to use EMG pickups like Ibanez did because of the blades. "You take an oversized soapbar pickup thats designed for an 8 string and can angle it anyway you want because of the blades"
> 
> When people talk about Passives in multiscales are referring 99% of the time to pickups with pole pieces/slugs which the Nazguls have.



"With passives it becomes much more more difficult and expensive" - You

"When people talk about Passives in multiscales are referring 99% of the time to pickups with pole pieces/slugs which the Nazguls have."

OK, so 99% of the time you're right in practicality, but you can be right 100% of the time by just not mentioning active vs passive AT ALL, because it has nothing to do with the issue. Blades vs polepieces is the entire extent of what needs to be explained here. 

There's also the fact that you can easily have Active pickups with polepieces, like the Gus G Blackouts, the Het Set, 57/66, Jeff Loomis Blackouts, so again, waters muddied when they don't have to be.

Hell, this Agile has passive blade pickups in it as standard. Apparently they don't even suck. - http://www.rondomusic.com/intrepidpro72720ebcpnat.html


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## Sicarius (Jun 24, 2016)

I thought the Gus G Blackouts were actually passives but used the Blackout Preamp in the control cavity?

Also, pretty sure the slugs in the Het Set and 57/66 sets are cosmetic?


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## GuitarBizarre (Jun 24, 2016)

Sicarius said:


> I thought the Gus G Blackouts were actually passives but used the Blackout Preamp in the control cavity?


There's no electrical or practical difference. Both systems are active, the Gus G simply puts the preamp in a different place.

I think people fail to understand that as far as magnets and wire goes, there is no difference between a passive and an active pickup. One of them is simply connected directly to the output jack and the other is connected to a battery operated preamplifier.

The pickup that forms the basis of the EMG 81 is a ceramic magnet, blade polepiece pickup with a low number of windings and about the same output as a weak PAF. 

That's good, because it means the pickup has low capacitance and therefore excellent high frequency response. It's also a bit more touch sensitive.

But it's also bad, because that pickup has very little output and won't drive an amp very hard - it also makes it more susceptible to RFI getting into your cables and control cavity because the signal is weaker and easier to destroy.

This is why most passive pickups are wound MUCH hotter than the pickup I just described - you get more output the more coils of wire you have, and that makes the pickup able to drive an amp into distortion, or to ensure signal integrity onstage. The problem is that as you kick up the number of winds, you also increase the capacitance of the coils, and that results in your pickup having less high frequency response - That's why a pickup like the SLUG doesn't have a shimmery sparkly top end but a 36th Anniversary PAF or a Humbucker from hell totally does.

EMGs solve this problem and aim to get the best of both worlds by having a preamp circuit built into the pickup itself that primarily does two things: It boosts the strength of the signal, and it also happens to change the signal from low impedance to high impedance. Both of these things ensure the pickup's output signal is both strong and quite resistant to outside interference. 

There's also a little scope for tone shaping and so on in the circuitry, and other little bits and pieces, but fundamentally, that is what an active pickup is - A passive pickup with bits added.

Doesn't matter if you build it into the pickup, have it outside, or even add it after by using a 3rd party product - The Gus G blackouts with Modular Preamp are exactly as "Active" as an EMG 81 or a Dave Mustaine Livewire.


This is also exactly why it makes no sense to bring active vs passive into the debate about pole spacing - because you can have an active pickup with that problem, and you can have passive pickups without that problem, just as easily as the other way around. 

On the other hand, if you simply say "Blades = no need to custom-space polepieces to compensate for different fan angles", then you've explained the entire problem in 1 sentence and even oddball designs and weird pickups made in strange ways won't make you wrong - because you've eliminated the fluff from your statement and you're only saying what's 100% relevant.


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## robski92 (Jun 24, 2016)

> Blades vs polepieces



That's what I gathered from his first statement...


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## MrWulf (Jun 24, 2016)

Why is GuitarBizarre is lashing out at Ward's original statement? Most of his statements and opinions are true, and never once he talked about how active is better than passive. He merely stated the fact that EMG active are convenient and other passive solutions are not cutting it.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jun 24, 2016)

They used EMGs because EMGs have rail polepieces. They can work for fanned-frets. They can't use Duncans because, to my knowledge, Duncan doesn't make slanted pickups for fanned frets (except for the custom shop), and these guitars have a decently wide range. It makes sense to use EMGs because it doesn't matter how the pickups are positioned. 

As for the price. Sweetwater has the 7-string for $849 and the 8-string for $899. The 7 string is $150 cheaper than the 7-string Ibby and the 8-string is $300 cheaper than the 8-string. Considering you have a "better" scale length with the Jackson and they're probably on-par quality wise, I'd say the Jackson is a no brainer.


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## robski92 (Jun 24, 2016)

> Sweetwater has the 7-string for $849



Wellp, I know what guitar I'm buying next lol


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## lewis (Jun 24, 2016)

when I said about not liking EMG in my initial post which kicked it all off, Im sorry I wasnt more specific. I just hate active pickups in general. Not specifically EMG just any. And therefore would of been happy with any passive pickup. Wouldnt 8 string, active mount, soapbar covered Duncans be working the same way the EMGs would be?. Or am i being thick? (probably haha)

Either way I just would have preferred any passive pickup in the guitar over anything active.


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## robski92 (Jun 24, 2016)

> Wouldnt 8 string, active mount, soapbar covered Duncans be working the same way the EMGs would be?



The coils would still need to be angled for the pole pieces underneath the cover to line up properly. It would probably work with something like an 8 string Slug or Dimebucker because they have bar magnets, but something like the nazgul would not work because the coils have to be angled for the pole pieces to line up properly.


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## stevexc (Jun 24, 2016)

MrWulf said:


> Why is GuitarBizarre is lashing out at Ward's original statement? Most of his statements and opinions are true, and never once he talked about how active is better than passive. He merely stated the fact that EMG active are convenient and other passive solutions are not cutting it.



Because some people live for nothing more than to argue on the internet, and GuitarBizarre likes to regularly remind us that he is one of those people.

For those that haven't seen yet, the FF7 is $849 at Sweetwater, and the FF8 is $899.

Definitely a solid price point. Gonna do some digging and see if there's a Canadian retail price yet.


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## bostjan (Jun 24, 2016)

stevexc said:


> Because some people live for nothing more than to argue on the internet, and GuitarBizarre likes to regularly remind us that he is one of those people.
> 
> For those that haven't seen yet, the FF7 is $849 at Sweetwater, and the FF8 is $899.
> 
> Definitely a solid price point. Gonna do some digging and see if there's a Canadian retail price yet.



I'm impressed by that price! Jackson's done it!


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## Spicypickles (Jun 24, 2016)

My biggest issue with the EMG's is that they have to use the next size up compared to the string count.


So the 8 string will have 909's in it, and your only other option is 909x's or lace. The 8 string emg's seem plenty wide enough that they'd be able to still work at an angle, but I may be wrong.


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## robski92 (Jun 24, 2016)

SD Blackouts would work as well right?


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## GuitarBizarre (Jun 24, 2016)

Spicypickles said:


> My biggest issue with the EMG's is that they have to use the next size up compared to the string count.
> 
> 
> So the 8 string will have 909's in it, and your only other option is 909x's or lace. The 8 string emg's seem plenty wide enough that they'd be able to still work at an angle, but I may be wrong.


They do have to be significantly wider, because your strings need to pass over both blades, not just one. 

You could get signal out of the strings if you angled them and didn't use a wider pickup, but the outside strings would only pass over one of the two blades if the angle was more than very slight, so it'd sound inconsistent compared to the other strings, and you'd also have potentially much less output.


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## Wildebeest (Jun 24, 2016)

I love the 28 inch scale! Great job!


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## mphsc (Jun 24, 2016)

glad they went 28" on the 8 string. They do have that over Ibanez I guess.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jun 24, 2016)

Spicypickles said:


> My biggest issue with the EMG's is that they have to use the next size up compared to the string count.
> 
> 
> So the 8 string will have 909's in it, and your only other option is 909x's or lace. The 8 string emg's seem plenty wide enough that they'd be able to still work at an angle, but I may be wrong.



EMGs are pretty much the only option for the mass market. They make a range of pickups, plus have rail polepieces.

You can get Duncan or DiMarzio to make custom pickups, but given each company has a varying multiscale (With Ibanez's 27.2 - 25.5, Jacksons 28 - 25.5, etc etc), it's hard to have a mass-produced passive pickup that works with every guitar, unless they start making rail pickups. That, or each company has Duncan or DiMarzio mass-produced specific-specced pickups for their guitars.


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## lewis (Jun 25, 2016)

I would rather Lace xbars be in the thing than Active EMGs. They are cheaper than EMG too from memory


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## prlgmnr (Jun 25, 2016)

Brilliant job that we completely tanked the exchange rate just in time for these to come out.


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## prlgmnr (Jun 25, 2016)

Yeah that's right the thing that bothers me most about leaving the EU is no longer being able to import gear from the US at decent prices...


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## seandavis2013 (Jun 30, 2016)

So this looks prett cool. It says coming in October underneath what I screenshot-ed. The image may be super small on non phones/tablet


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## bostjan (Jun 30, 2016)

A couple threads on this have already appeared. Here's the main one.


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## EarlWellington (Jul 1, 2016)

bostjan said:


> A couple threads on this have already appeared. Here's the main one.



You just linked to this thread?


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## Hollowway (Jul 1, 2016)

Those prices are great. I don't need another 8, but I like how Jackson is rolling up to the Multiscale models the way the FBI comes into a local police investigation. They're like, "Nice try, Ibanez, but we'll take it from here." 

I'll criticize them for being so late to the game, but at least they got the fan right. Good scale length and good perp fret location.


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## downburst82 (Jul 1, 2016)

EarlWellington said:


> You just linked to this thread?


The two threads were merged


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## Floppystrings (Jul 1, 2016)

robski92 said:


> The coils would still need to be angled for the pole pieces underneath the cover to line up properly. It would probably work with something like an 8 string Slug or Dimebucker because they have bar magnets, but something like the nazgul would not work because the coils have to be angled for the pole pieces to line up properly.



If you take the baseplate off of a passive pickup, and construct a custom one from fiberboard, you could have angled passive pole pieces inside an active cover.


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## GuitarBizarre (Jul 1, 2016)

Floppystrings said:


> If you take the baseplate off of a passive pickup, and construct a custom one from fiberboard, you could have angled passive pole pieces inside an active cover.


They wouldn't line up, due to foreshortening. 

Imagine taking a strat pickup and lining it up so every polepiece was under the low E string - obviously none of the other strings would be picked up.

Every degree of angle you add to a fanned pickup gets you closer to the same problem, unless you extend the space between polepieces to compensate.

You can avoid this by using pickups with rail or bar magnet polepieces, since there you don't need to worry about polepiece alignment per string, it's only important that the pickup is long enough to span the entire space beneath strings. This is why EMGs are the popular fan fret pickup - they're rail pickups. Even then though, you still usually see 9 string pickups being used on 8 string fans and 8 string pickups on 7 string fans, because they simply need to be longer if they're angled.


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## Masoo2 (Jul 2, 2016)

Really digging the 8, would be a nice cheaper alternative to the Ormsby HypeGTRs.

Anyone play one of the Jackson 8 strings before? If so, what's the neck like? Thin, thick, Ibanez thin, profile, etc...


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## Slunk Dragon (Jul 5, 2016)

Oh wow, these look awesome!

And if it's reasonably-priced, I may not feel as bad when I go to mod it. xD


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## rampant (Jul 7, 2016)

I envy all you bastards who have fingers long enough to make 8 strings playable.


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## bostjan (Jul 7, 2016)

rampant said:


> I envy all you bastards who have fingers long enough to make 8 strings playable.



Have you tried one? I have very average fingers, but I have no trouble with 8s or 9s.


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## noise in my mind (Jul 17, 2016)

Interesting....I am the only one who doesn't like the jackson 8 string headstock?


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 17, 2016)

noise in my mind said:


> Interesting....I am the only one who doesn't like the jackson 8 string headstock?



No, there was a ....storm when Jackson re-released the SLAT series with the SLS headstock.


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## noise in my mind (Jul 17, 2016)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> No, there was a ....storm when Jackson re-released the SLAT series with the SLS headstock.



Yeah, I have seen other versions of this headstock that look fine, but the 8 string one just looks awful to me. I wonder how the fret work turned out? My old sl2h fretwork was honestly aweful, about the same as an inexpensive squire.


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## Lionsden (Sep 7, 2017)

So, anyone tried one yet? I'm seriously considering the 7 as I hope to jump into a multi-scale Aristides next year in the 25.5-27 configuration and this would be an excellent way to test the waters to make sure that's the direction I want to go with the Aristides before dropping $4k on a build half way across the world.


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## lewis (Sep 11, 2017)

can someone at Jackson, slap everyone else at Jackson who thinks its acceptable and looks fine, to NOT COLOUR MATCH THE DAMN HEADSTOCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That blue?. Absolutely lovely....that headstock?. shit

I have the same exact issue with my Jackson Slime Green Slatt with maple fretboard. Its infuriating.


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## bostjan (Sep 12, 2017)

lewis said:


> can someone at Jackson, slap everyone else at Jackson who thinks its acceptable and looks fine, to NOT COLOUR MATCH THE DAMN HEADSTOCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> That blue?. Absolutely lovely....that headstock?. shit
> 
> I have the same exact issue with my Jackson Slime Green Slatt with maple fretboard. Its infuriating.



I would even take a jar of matching paint and an extra decal as an option.


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## lewis (Sep 12, 2017)

bostjan said:


> I would even take a jar of matching paint and an extra decal as an option.


yeah same!!!

does my head in.
I even emailed them one time asking for paint codes and info like that and they actually refused to divulge any info to me about anything that went into building the guitar. So there goes colour matching.
I even tried buying multiple different shades of green vinyl in the hope at least 1 of them would match.
Sadly none did so ive given up trying now.


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