# Fanned Fret Conversion Neck for Ibanez



## skeels (Jun 1, 2014)

So I had been thinking about this for a while and in talking with BCrotchett, started making concrete plans. 

The idea is a 26.5 to 27 fan to retrofit an Ibanez 1527. I plan to put the perpendicular at the 25th fret to keep the heel profile the same as a factory neck. As a gentle fan, there should be enough movement in the bridge saddles to accommodate for intonation. Also the trem will be blocked, I'll just have a bone nut on it.

if anyone has any advice, I'm all ears. 

I already got some wood- Indian rosewood and flamey maple for the fretboard. 












I have a 1527 body and ran off some test fretboard designs. I plan on building the neck first, then fitting the slotted board to it to help line up that 25th fret.






Started on a neck template. 






Like I said, I'm open to any suggestions or advice. I will be taking this slow, as I want to make it work out as best I can.

Thanks guys.


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## ElysianGuitars (Jun 1, 2014)

This could be really cool.


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## Webmaestro (Jun 1, 2014)

As someone who is a hoarder of RG1527's, I'm definitely subscribed to this one.


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## tssb (Jun 1, 2014)

Have you thought about making the "perpendicular" at the bridge ? The fan isn't that extreme, so it could work.

Also, you don't need to have fretboard parallel to the heel end, most freeboards have an overhang to compensate for the non-rectangular heel end, yours would be...more generously dimensioned.


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## ElysianGuitars (Jun 1, 2014)

tssb said:


> Have you thought about making the "perpendicular" at the bridge ? The fan isn't that extreme, so it could work.
> 
> Also, you don't need to have fretboard parallel to the heel end, most freeboards have an overhang to compensate for the non-rectangular heel end, yours would be...more generously dimensioned.



The reason one wouldn't do an overhang like that is because the neck pickup butts right up to the edge of the neck. It'd have to come over the neck pickup pretty much...


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## tssb (Jun 1, 2014)

ElysianGuitars said:


> The reason one wouldn't do an overhang like that is because the neck pickup butts right up to the edge of the neck. It'd have to come over the neck pickup pretty much...



True, hadn't looked closely enough at the body pics. You can always just chop it off, which due to the fan would cause partial frets. Personally, i like the look of partial frets, especially the ESP 27 fret style.


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## ElysianGuitars (Jun 1, 2014)

Are you still going to use a locking nut Andy?


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## skeels (Jun 1, 2014)

Nope, no locking nut on this. I would need to get one machined. B plays with a blocked trem so it's not mandatory. 

My first thought was actually to use the perpendicular at the bridge but because of the Ibanez neck heel butting up to the pickup and the scale change, where I use the 25th fret at the place of the factory's 24th, I figured this would work best. I don't mind partial frets, but the bridge angle this way would best suit the conversion I think.


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## ElysianGuitars (Jun 1, 2014)

You could still do a locking nut if you do a zero fret and have a straight end of the fingerboard. Would slightly widen the string spacing at the 1st fret, but not by much... but probably not necessary on a blocked trem.


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## Taylor (Jun 1, 2014)

Dat Lightning McQueen Doe...

But in all seriousness, I am eager to see how this works out!


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## skeels (Jun 1, 2014)

I never thought of a zero fret. Not certain of the a esthetics of it. Might make the "throat" of the headstock look weird. I have no issue with a wee bit wider spacing but this is for someone else.

Also, ka-chow!


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## iamnoah262 (Jun 1, 2014)

I'm really excited to watch this project! Unfortunately, I can't help you out, but I wish you all the luck!

-Noah


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## Explorer (Jun 2, 2014)

I thought the optimal place for the perpendicular fret was where your fretting hand's arm is perpendicular to the neck. Then, as your arm pivots up and down the neck while playing without straining the wrist. I think that's normally between the 6th and 8th frets for most people. putting it 3/4 of the way into the scale length is not good.

With that said, you're just adding a half inch, so it won't be a huge angle change, but that brings up the next question: Is this just a project for sh1ts and giggles, or is there an advantage you see at the end of this investment of time, energy and material costs?


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## UnderTheSign (Jun 2, 2014)

ElysianGuitars said:


> You could still do a locking nut if you do a zero fret and have a straight end of the fingerboard. Would slightly widen the string spacing at the 1st fret, but not by much... but probably not necessary on a blocked trem.


Or do a regular (angled) nut followed by a Kahler behind-the-nut lock. Might not be the prettiest but it does offer the best of both worlds here.


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## cardinal (Jun 2, 2014)

Kahler doesn't make a 7-string behind-the-nut clamp, to my knowledge. I'd be interested in one if they did...


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## theo (Jun 2, 2014)

so uhm... http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/bass-guitar-discussion/271918-fanned-fret-our-favorite.html


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## Greenbrettiscool (Jun 2, 2014)

I would also love to see how this project turns out, I have been considering doing the same to one of mine, good luck dude!


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## Winspear (Jun 2, 2014)

Explorer said:


> I thought the optimal place for the perpendicular fret was where your fretting hand's arm is perpendicular to the neck. Then, as your arm pivots up and down the neck while playing without straining the wrist. I think that's normally between the 6th and 8th frets for most people. putting it 3/4 of the way into the scale length is not good.
> 
> With that said, you're just adding a half inch, so it won't be a huge angle change, but that brings up the next question: Is this just a project for sh1ts and giggles, or is there an advantage you see at the end of this investment of time, energy and material costs?



Well it's a baritone conversion for a start - otherwise I'd agree such a small fan is fairly pointless haha. But if he's gonna make a baritone neck then why not do this too  I've played with the idea of a straight bridge/perp 24th fret - templates seem perfectly comfortable. With a small fan the perp fret doesn't really matter because any extreme of nut or a bridge angle wont be a problem.


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## skeels (Jun 6, 2014)

Got a little progress this week. It's starting to warm up-went from 40 degrees to 80 degrees- no spring, straight to summer- and it gets to be 100 in my shop. BUT! 

Yes, Ex, this is an experiment but also an upgrade for BCrotchett. I'm going to try another neck or maybe for a 7620 .... we'll see. ...

Some pics...













some template action and a new addition to my shop- a real, non-gouging push block! Thanks to the guys who helped me with the Ibby headstock pdf!

FINALLY got a neck template to my liking and did the hover-board test. Nice fit. So weird to reverse engineer a neck.







Got the scarf glued. Rosewood is a tough cookie to work with. I like it. 






Will probably forego the locking nut. Just don't like the way it looked. Too after-thoughty and blew the angle of the nut.

Stay tuned!


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## eddiewarlock (Jun 6, 2014)

locking tuners, and a graphite nut.


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## Alex Kenivel (Jun 6, 2014)

Lawls @ "after-thoughty"


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## skeels (Jun 13, 2014)

Slowly coming along. Had wind and rain storms here, which has kept me busy with 16 hours days and perpetually wet. Also, rosewood is very tough to work- you have to take it slowly or you will mess up. 

So I started slotting the maple fretboard...








and routed for the truss rod...






Next up, cutting the neck and headstock to shape, fitting the fretboard and drilling for tuners!


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## RV350ALSCYTHE (Jun 13, 2014)

Awesome! Can't wait to see the end result.
Glad someone is documenting a straight to fanned conversion 

So, how's that rosewood smell while working it?
I found it to be very "pissy" 
Like a pool of concentrated cat urine.


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## UnderTheSign (Jun 13, 2014)

RV350ALSCYTHE said:


> Awesome! Can't wait to see the end result.
> Glad someone is documenting a straight to fanned conversion
> 
> So, how's that rosewood smell while working it?
> ...


Dunno what kind of rosewood you used but most rosewoods smell like vanilla


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## Electric Wizard (Jun 13, 2014)

Indian rosewood definitely has a urine smell.


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## Taylor (Jun 13, 2014)

Electric Wizard said:


> Indian rosewood definitely has a urine smell.



Bocote smells like pickles.


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## Edika (Jun 13, 2014)

Interesting project Skeels. Plus Rosewood neck and (flame) maple fretboard? That's witchcraft I say! lol


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## skeels (Jun 18, 2014)

Slowly. ... slowly. .... sloooooow.... ly.....


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## OfArtAndArsenal (Jun 18, 2014)

If this works, I'm doing it.


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## MetalBuddah (Jun 18, 2014)

Holy crap  I have seen a ton of interesting/cool mods but this one takes the cake. I hope this turns out well for you!


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## Eliguy666 (Jun 19, 2014)

GraveyardThrone said:


> Bocote smells like pickles.



If we're going for the best smelling rosewood, it's granadillo. It smells like rose water and cinnamon, which, while perhaps not the greatest smell, outranks piss or pickles.


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## RND (Jun 19, 2014)

Hey, I don't know if you've looked too much into fanned fretboards, but your fan looks like it has a very high perpendicular point. It looks as though your outline has that perpendicular all the way up in the higher register. Usually people put this "parallel fret" to be around the 7th or 8th fret, to make chording easier, but since the fan on this is so slight, it might not make a huge difference anyways. This is an example of a 25.5"-27" fan I made for a 7 string. You can see the 8th fret is pretty much straight.


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## Solodini (Jun 19, 2014)

See 1st post: "The idea is a 26.5 to 27 fan to retrofit an Ibanez 1527. I plan to put the perpendicular at the 25th fret to keep the heel profile the same as a factory neck. As a gentle fan, there should be enough movement in the bridge saddles to accommodate for intonation." He doesn't have that luxury when just making a new neck for an exisiting body with a bridge intended for single scale.


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## RND (Jun 19, 2014)

Solodini said:


> See 1st post: "The idea is a 26.5 to 27 fan to retrofit an Ibanez 1527. I plan to put the perpendicular at the 25th fret to keep the heel profile the same as a factory neck. As a gentle fan, there should be enough movement in the bridge saddles to accommodate for intonation." He doesn't have that luxury when just making a new neck for an exisiting body with a bridge intended for single scale.



What are you talking about? The diagram wasn't a suggestion, it was an example; I'm aware he wants to keep the fan slight so that he can use the original bridge. I was just commenting on his perpendicular placement. The fretboard doesn't affect the heel profile unless you cut them identically, which is what other people were saying with fretboards that overhang, such as on a strat. You don't need the perpendicular at the 25th fret, because the fretboard doesn't need to match the heel profile. I could see the possible problem with doing that if the fanned fingerboard would bump into the neck pickup if he let the board overhang, but it didn't look like he checked that, so why not comment on it?


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## russmuller (Jun 19, 2014)

RND said:


> What are you talking about? The diagram wasn't a suggestion, it was an example; I'm aware he wants to keep the fan slight so that he can use the original bridge. I was just commenting on his perpendicular placement. The fretboard doesn't affect the heel profile unless you cut them identically, which is what other people were saying with fretboards that overhang, such as on a strat. You don't need the perpendicular at the 25th fret, because the fretboard doesn't need to match the heel profile. I could see the possible problem with doing that if the fanned fingerboard would bump into the neck pickup if he let the board overhang, but it didn't look like he checked that, so why not comment on it?



Can't tell if trolling....  Much of what you say is perfectly true, but you seem to think that he can get away with more angle at bridge using the existing hardware and I believe most of us disagree. But maybe I'm wrong on that.

The placement of the perpendicular fret is directly related to the angle of the bridge, so you can't just put it anywhere unless you have a lot of flexibility with the bridge angle. If the perpendicular fret was the 12th, you'd have equal amounts of slant (theoretically) at the nut and the bridge. Moving that point either direction will change the slant at either end.

It would be very difficulty to use the existing bridge if the perpendicular fret is much closer to the nut as it would require the bridge to be more and more slanted. And any amount of slant at the bridge eats away from its ability to intonate properly. Given that this will be a 7-string with an extended scale, this guitar will definitely need some room to intonate, so I don't think it's wise to move the perpendicular fret further from the bridge.


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## RND (Jun 19, 2014)

russmuller said:


> Can't tell if trolling....  Much of what you say is perfectly true, but you seem to think that he can get away with more angle at bridge using the existing hardware and I believe most of us disagree. But maybe I'm wrong on that.
> 
> The placement of the perpendicular fret is directly related to the angle of the bridge, so you can't just put it anywhere unless you have a lot of flexibility with the bridge angle. If the perpendicular fret was the 12th, you'd have equal amounts of slant (theoretically) at the nut and the bridge. Moving that point either direction will change the slant at either end.
> 
> It would be very difficulty to use the existing bridge if the perpendicular fret is much closer to the nut as it would require the bridge to be more and more slanted. And any amount of slant at the bridge eats away from its ability to intonate properly. Given that this will be a 7-string with an extended scale, this guitar will definitely need some room to intonate, so I don't think it's wise to move the perpendicular fret further from the bridge.



Ohh... You're right, the perpendicular is placed that low to accommodate for the bridge, I didn't realize that, sorry. I thought that just the fact that it was a slight fan would make it usable with a bridge intended for single scale, but I checked it with the good 'ol ekips calc, and I saw exactly what you mean. The first one is the fan with the high perp. fret, and the 2nd is with the lower perp. fret (both are 6 string, as I was just checking with default settings). Very cool and unique mod, now that I see exactly what this guy is doing. Sorry for the confusion.


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## skeels (Jun 19, 2014)

RND said:


> Hey, I don't know if you've looked too much into fanned fretboards....



Mmmm. Little bit....










Just kidding man. Ive actually been putting away some hardware for some new FF builds. I'm just slow.


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## OfArtAndArsenal (Jun 20, 2014)

^Did you build that one, Skeely?

The guitar, I mean, not the kid.


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## Konfyouzd (Jun 20, 2014)

He only built half the kid if at all...


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## russmuller (Jun 20, 2014)

RND said:


> Ohh... You're right, the perpendicular is placed that low to accommodate for the bridge, I didn't realize that, sorry. I thought that just the fact that it was a slight fan would make it usable with a bridge intended for single scale, but I checked it with the good 'ol ekips calc, and I saw exactly what you mean. The first one is the fan with the high perp. fret, and the 2nd is with the lower perp. fret (both are 6 string, as I was just checking with default settings). Very cool and unique mod, now that I see exactly what this guy is doing. Sorry for the confusion.


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## skeels (Jul 8, 2014)

Storms have kept me working crazy hours, but I've gotten her ready for fretting. Shaped, radiused and wiped down with animal spirits. 





































Just loving this combination of woods. Definitely going to make one for a 7620.

Stay tuned!


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## Solodini (Jul 8, 2014)

Which animal?


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## Renkenstein (Jul 8, 2014)

SKEEEELS!!! A maple FB on a rosewood neck?!?! Out-flippin-standing!


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## XxJoshxX (Jul 9, 2014)

A headstock not sharp enough to impale somebody?This is NOT the skeels we know and love.

Just kidding, this is looking great skeels.


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## ovlott (Jul 11, 2014)

I am Totally going to do this to an 7421 if I can get my hands on a body for cheap! Have been wanting an FF guitar for awhile now


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## skeels (Jul 11, 2014)

Thanks guys! I keep getting calls for storm work but I'm starting on the fretting. I've been busy climbing trees in the dark, which is a highly rewarding experience but it's been keeping me from concentrating on building. 

Ovlott- I think this is going to turn out great. Converting a store bought guitbox to FF has been on my list for too long!

Josh- I felt weird about not using a medieval torture device as a template for this headstock but I actually don't have a design for a right hand one, so I went copy! Lol!

Renk! Yeah I'm way digging this combo- think I need to get more rosewood instead of new pants. Pants are over rated anyway. 

Solo- I used a mysterious concoction instead of mineral spirits.  I'll post a picture of it soon!


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## Konfyouzd (Jul 11, 2014)

Solodini said:


> Which animal?


Yea... Animal spirits? Like dog liquor?


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## Solodini (Jul 12, 2014)

skeels said:


> Solo- I used a mysterious concoction instead of mineral spirits.  I'll post a picture of it soon!



Shame, I was hoping you had protected the neck with an incantation you had learned while finding yourself in some hallucinogenic trip, guided by said animal's spirit. This thread is just disappointment now. I'm out.


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## skeels (Jul 12, 2014)

Solodini said:


> .... learned while finding yourself in some hallucinogenic trip, guided by said animal's spirit.



How do you think I came up with. ....... THIS!


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## JoeuJGM (Jul 13, 2014)

Loving this thread, such a great idea. I wonder if this could work on an RGA8... maybe 27"-27.5"... possibly even out to 28" if there's enough room for intonation with the bridge... Keep up the work man, looks great so far. I REALLY REALLY want to see this finished


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## SnowfaLL (Jul 13, 2014)

ahh this is awesome. I've recently become interested in fanned frets, but I wouldnt want to sacrifice a tremolo. Since I want a very slight fan (25.5 to 26 or 26.25) having a P fret closer to the bridge probably wouldn't cause an unreasonable stretch in the first 5 frets. 

I'll wait to see your reviews once this is completed.


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## GizmoJunior (Jul 13, 2014)

JoeuJGM said:


> Loving this thread, such a great idea. I wonder if this could work on an RGA8... maybe 27"-27.5"... possibly even out to 28" if there's enough room for intonation with the bridge... Keep up the work man, looks great so far. I REALLY REALLY want to see this finished



Generally more strings allow for a longer fan. I'm gonna be getting an Rga8 in the next couple days.

Once this neck is finished up and I've got the guitar set up I'll compare it to the Rga8 bridge and see if it'd be able to compensate for intonation. An inch fan might be a little much but I'm sure a half inch would be fine. I'll let you know how it works out cause a fanned Rga8 would be very cool.

Every time I check this thread I get more excited.


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## JoeuJGM (Jul 16, 2014)

BCrotchett said:


> Generally more strings allow for a longer fan. I'm gonna be getting an Rga8 in the next couple days.
> 
> Once this neck is finished up and I've got the guitar set up I'll compare it to the Rga8 bridge and see if it'd be able to compensate for intonation. An inch fan might be a little much but I'm sure a half inch would be fine. I'll let you know how it works out cause a fanned Rga8 would be very cool.
> 
> Every time I check this thread I get more excited.



A fanned Ibby 8 would be the best thing in the world, and yeah I had my doubts about the bridge as well, there's honestly not alot of room for backwards compensation with the saddles I find. I can barely intonate my low F with a .074 gauge string. Maybe I need to go up to an .080+, which is probably not a half bad idea anyway. Now if you wanted to go the other way, 26" to the existing 27" on the top, I definitely think it would be possible for a 1" fan on an RGA8.
The RG8 would probably be a better candidate for a fanned fret job, it's not only cheaper but it would be easy enough to strip the paint down, as many do anyway, fill the bridge and string through holes, and redrill for single saddles with a new neck.It would probably be easier to just build an entirely new guitar at that point, but it's definitely possible. I'm going off on a tangent here, so I'll be going now


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## VSK Guitars (Jul 16, 2014)

This is a cool idea man... looking forward to the final report


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## Zai (Jul 19, 2014)

Hmmmmm tasty project man


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## notasian (Jul 20, 2014)

do we have the right to be impatient about this? i mean all he needs to do is put in the frets and bolt it on! that takes like 5 seconds in internet lurking time!


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## skeels (Jul 20, 2014)

.... and make the nut and do the side dots and oil it and do some leveling and crowning and put something on the maple board and make a truss rod cover and... 

Ya I know, I am slow. I've gotten some of these things done and I'm zeroing in on completing this gal. Went back and did some more contouring on her just to improve the feel. Rosewood does not shape as easily as say, maple... I would imagine the premium you see for a rosewood neck lies in the labor!

Test fitting. ..





The board is gorgeous! 





Especially with the fanned frets. ..




I really should have just made two.  

While we are all here, can anyone tell me which trems fit the 1527s? I've got this test body but no hardware. It's got posts already. I was going to put a swirl on it. If I make another neck for myself, I may have to put this together! 

Be patient with me. The Outernet is really camping my style!


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## GizmoJunior (Jul 20, 2014)

I'm falling in love with this neck.


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## SnowfaLL (Jul 21, 2014)

damn, you should sell me a neck like that =] Such an awesome idea.

1527 should be equiped with the Edge Pro 7 if I recalll, but one of the ibby experts should come comment soon.


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## Konfyouzd (Jul 21, 2014)

That looks just as comfy as if the perpendicular fret were lower. I'd have to play it to be sure, but definitely doesn't look bad at all.


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## Erick Kroenen (Jul 21, 2014)

i dont have and ibby now and i want that neck, awesome!


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## Webmaestro (Jul 21, 2014)

I shed a single, solitary tear of joy as I viewed these latest update pics.


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## ElysianGuitars (Jul 22, 2014)

Looking awesome Andy. Really came together quite well. You might be able to shoehorn an OFR7 into there, not sure if it would need the back end of the recess elongated or not, but from bass side to treble side should fit.


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## skeels (Jul 22, 2014)

Thanks you guys. 

Adam I do actually have an OFR "just laying around" but the more I think of it, I may try to make a new RG body. Not sure. Should be my next project for 2016!

Forgot some shots of the back!











Kid tested, cat approved! 

Getting closer.... clooooser.....


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## pondman (Jul 22, 2014)




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## VSK Guitars (Jul 22, 2014)

The back of that neck looks pretty damn tasty man, beautiful work


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## mongey (Jul 22, 2014)

I ask out of pure ignorance and interest ,and the neck looks great , what does a fan that slight offer over straight frets ? 

I wouldnt think tension wise a .5 differnce would be that noticable in string tension .maybe it is ???honest question


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## Webmaestro (Jul 22, 2014)

skeels said:


> While we are all here, can anyone tell me which trems fit the 1527s? I've got this test body but no hardware. It's got posts already. I was going to put a swirl on it. If I make another neck for myself, I may have to put this together!
> 
> Be patient with me. The Outernet is really camping my style!



The "older" 1527's were equipped with the Edge Pro 7... but at some point they switched to the newer Edge Zero 7 with ZPS.

Not sure if that's what you were asking, or if you're just curious what trems will fit it in general (including non-Ibby trems).


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## BlackMastodon (Jul 22, 2014)

Oh man, I'm late to the party on this one. Looks great skeels! Also disappointed in myself for missing the animal spirits joke window.


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## skeels (Aug 12, 2014)

Ok well, she's gone to Brandon for fitting and final assembly. It seems weird- that I can't make sure the nut is filed right for action and string gauge, that I don't know if I worked out all the frets right and so forth...

But here's a few last pictures before he has his guy set it up and posts an NND. Thanks for watching and all the comments and suggestions.


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## ThePhilosopher (Aug 12, 2014)

That's just plain sexy, want to make one for an RG8 next?


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## Neilzord (Aug 12, 2014)

Awesome work! Look forward to seeing the NND!!!


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## noj (Aug 12, 2014)

Looks awesome buddy! Truss rod cover is a nice touch!


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## SnowfaLL (Aug 21, 2014)

Has this been completed and set up now? How does it play? Any issues with trem functionality?


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## Renkenstein (Aug 21, 2014)

Mannnn, that TRC is the icing on that cake of awesomeness. You just finish that thing when you're good and ready. I understand holdups on builds, believe you me! Kids are the bane of any builder. I've got a toddler in the midst of potty training and right when I get going in my shop, I hear a little voice exclaim "Uh oh! POOP!"


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## russmuller (Aug 27, 2014)

NickCormier said:


> Has this been completed and set up now? How does it play? Any issues with trem functionality?



Guitar has been setup and will be arriving in it's new home next week. NGD will follow soon.


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## Altar (Sep 6, 2014)

Update!!!


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