# Point of ERG's



## yellow (Aug 4, 2011)

Hey everyone

i looked and searched with various terms like "what is the point of..." or "why x # of strings" and searches like that and i didnt really find any threads.

so ill ask here, what do you think is the point of ERG's? I mean you can easily say 6 strings are enough, but I just got a 7, and the only difference is five lower notes (since tuning to high A snaps almost within hours/days)...so now we have 7,8,9,10 string production guitars and there are even 11+ string custom guitars.

if we are playing "guitar" why go into the bass's territory. I mean I can understand a bit lower with the 7 string, and i can even accept the 8 string because its like a step or so higher than the highest bass string, but beyond that were moving out of our usual frequency. like a 9 string guitar is an 8 string with a bass string, and even an 8 string is almost a 7 string with a bass string especially depending on your tuning chioice, i couldnt imagine a 9, 10, or 11+ guitar. ive seen some 13+ string acoustics even. playing one would be really tough to begin with, unless u have monstrous handss i guess (like 6'5''+ person's hands idk) but its somethin thats been on my mind so i thought id ask.

6 is definitely enough, 7 is a nice addition, 8 is startin to push it, and 9 and up just seems a lil too much to me. like why have bass strings on a guitar? do the pickups and frequencies really translate on a regular amp?

im not knockin ERG's, i mean i just bought my second 7 string, but after seeing the 9 and 10 string axes recently, its just been on my mind.

so yeah, what do you think is the point of going into frequencies that low, (which really belong to another instrument)? if we went into high A and up i could see that, but i just dont understanding playin into such low notes. maybe someone can offer their reasoning.

PS I think the Ibanez RGA8 is awesome. What other trem/floating bridges are available for 8 strings other than kahler, cuz im sure there is no production floyd


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## highlordmugfug (Aug 4, 2011)

No one ever complains that pianos have too much range. Why limit yourself to accepted norms on other instruments?
[/thread]


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## ElRay (Aug 4, 2011)

Some folks go high. Some folks go dense (3rds Tunings). Some folks play with Bassists that go even lower. Even if the open strings flitter on the surface of "Bassland", the higher frets are still in "Guitarland" and you can play wider intervals in the same position. There's lots of reasons for ERGs.

Ray


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## leonardo7 (Aug 4, 2011)

ERGs that go lower arent lame, ERGs that go lower but do not have adequately increased scale length are whats lame


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## BangandBreach (Aug 4, 2011)

Why have one? Because we can.

Why buy an automobile that exceeds the highest posted speed limit in your city?
No one _needs_ it. right?
If you have concluded that 6 enough, enjoy your sixes and we'll all enjoy our own guitars.



> if we went into low G and lower i could see that, but i just dont understanding playin into such high notes. maybe someone can offer their reasoning.



See how that works?


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## yellow (Aug 4, 2011)

thanks for the replies, and to the dude above who took it way too personal, relax, i have a 7 string....

like i said, im not knockin em cuz i have a 7, im just wondering what the point of going into bass frequencies is to you. there is no right answer, this is an opinion question


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## yellow (Aug 4, 2011)

and also, aside from kahler is there another trem for 8's?


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## Muerto (Aug 4, 2011)

yellow said:


> what do you think is the point of ERG's?



because the range is extended?


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## yellow (Aug 4, 2011)

man, this thread is causin hostility, forget it, you can close it if u want, i just thought id ask some guitarists why they use ERG's but i guess my question isnt welcome


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## highlordmugfug (Aug 4, 2011)

yellow said:


> man, this thread is causin hostility, forget it, you can close it if u want, i just thought id ask some guitarists why they use ERG's but i guess my question isnt welcome


It's a topic that's been covered a lot, and it's usually brought up by trolls. I kind of figured you'd get that sort of response.


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## yellow (Aug 4, 2011)

im not trollin at all, im a new member, and i didnt know about 8,9,10+ string guitars until like last week, so im curious i knowing why guitarists like the low end range so much, im tryin to get an understanding of other guitarists preferences and styles, thats all. and i also did search and couldnt find any pertinent threads so i thought id ask. if this is like a non-issue to discuss, then forget i asked. i was also curious about 8+ string floating/trems.... but hey, if all im gonna get is flamed lock it down man. honestly, considering i just bought a damien elite 7 fr, im suprised at the flames


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## highlordmugfug (Aug 4, 2011)

yellow said:


> im not trollin at all, im a new member, and i didnt know about 8,9,10+ string guitars until like last week, so im curious i knowing why guitarists like the low end range so much, im tryin to get an understanding of other guitarists preferences and styles, thats all. and i also did search and couldnt find any pertinent threads so i thought id ask. if this is like a non-issue to discuss, then forget i asked. i was also curious about 8+ string floating/trems.... but hey, if all im gonna get is flamed lock it down man. honestly, considering i just bought a damien elite 7 fr, im suprised at the flames


I'm not a mod, you can report your original post if you want to request it be locked, that's the quickest way of going about it.

But yeah, if you don't let the overly defensive people here in this thread scare you and hang out/read around a bit, you'll see all sorts of different reasons people have for wanting longer scale lengths, more strings, all 5ths tunings, et infinitum.

It's very personal, and there's a lot that plays into it, so there will never be a real definitive/simple answer to your question.

 to the forum though.


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## djohns74 (Aug 4, 2011)

In addition to the obvious, it is possible to play the extra lower strings on frets other than 0-4, so you're getting more than just "five extra notes" as the popular phrase goes. For those into such things, you can do longer scale runs without changing positions, for example. 

I personally have little or none of the shredding abilities required to utilize this technique properly, so end up just chugging away on open strings, which gets boring quickly, but I've seen many others do some pretty incredible stuff across all 8, 9 or even 10 strings. I suspect that for these folks, an 8 or 9 string guitar is much more than just a standard guitar with access to the bass range, it's a specialized instrument that they've adapted an entire playing style around, which is pretty cool in my book.


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## yellow (Aug 4, 2011)

highlordmugfug said:


> But yeah, if you don't let the overly defensive people here in this thread scare you and hang out/read around a bit, you'll see all sorts of different reasons people have for wanting longer scale lengths, more strings, all 5ths tunings, et infinitum.
> 
> It's very personal, and there's a lot that plays into it, so there will never be a real definitive/simple answer to your question.
> 
> to the forum though.


 
thanks for the welcome man

yeah tahts all i wanted to know, why people like the ERG and what they do with it. i had trouble understanding the point of a 10 string guitar, especially in terms of playability, so i thought id ask someone who has something over an 8 string, if anyone does have a 9 or 10 string


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## yellow (Aug 4, 2011)

djohns74 said:


> In addition to the obvious, it is possible to play the extra lower strings on frets other than 0-4, so you're getting more than just "five extra notes" as the popular phrase goes. For those into such things, you can do longer scale runs without changing positions, for example.
> 
> I personally have little or none of the shredding abilities required to utilize this technique properly, so end up just chugging away on open strings, which gets boring quickly, but I've seen many others do some pretty incredible stuff across all 8, 9 or even 10 strings. I suspect that for these folks, an 8 or 9 string guitar is much more than just a standard guitar with access to the bass range, it's a specialized instrument that they've adapted an entire playing style around, which is pretty cool in my book.


 
cool answer man


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## flo (Aug 4, 2011)

Why have a bass + a guitar if you can put it all into one instrument? 

Play low _and_ high notes at the same time and stuff like this.

I kid of cause. The true meaning of ERGs is to scare people.


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## leftyguitarjoe (Aug 4, 2011)

Dude you'll love my 12 string


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## yellow (Aug 4, 2011)

wow, see a 12 string now. now for instance, is that a tapping/2 handed instrument or do you strum/pick


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## BangandBreach (Aug 4, 2011)

yellow said:


> thanks for the replies, and to the dude above who took it way too personal, relax, i have a 7 string....
> 
> like i said, im not knockin em cuz i have a 7, im just wondering what the point of going into bass frequencies is to you. there is no right answer, this is an opinion question



Took what personally? You asked a question and I/people answered it. Nothin' more than that.

Sorry you feel that way.

I can add some smilies if it'll make you feel better.


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## BangandBreach (Aug 4, 2011)

leftyguitarjoe said:


> Dude you'll love my 12 string



That looks like a _lot_ of fun.


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## Konfyouzd (Aug 4, 2011)

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/ge...number-strings-best-suits-your-needs-why.html

Search HARDER!!!


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## Konfyouzd (Aug 4, 2011)

For me the point of an ERG is not only to extend the range but to also have access to the same notes in new places thus facilitating certain musical phrases...


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## leftyguitarjoe (Aug 4, 2011)

yellow said:


> wow, see a 12 string now. now for instance, is that a tapping/2 handed instrument or do you strum/pick




Its a tapper


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## Guamskyy (Aug 4, 2011)

Why you ask? Cuz I like to groove and shred


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## MistaSnowman (Aug 4, 2011)

Konfyouzd said:


> For me the point of an ERG is not only too extend the range but to also have access to the same notes in new places thus facilitating certain musical phrases...


 
...and being able to construct 'new' chords.


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## vampiregenocide (Aug 4, 2011)

An artist can chose to use one or two colours, or he can choose to use all of them. Extended range guitars add more colours to your palette.


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## larry (Aug 4, 2011)

personaly, i want a 9 string erg just 'cause it looks cool. seriously.
but, after i owned up to being a total poser --then i thought about
what i would do with all those strings. 

at first i thought going higher would be great. 
since i already have a 7 tuned drop A (AEADGBE),
i could add 2 higher strings. but i'm not much of a lead player, and 
wanted a way to force myself to play/write differently. 
i could easily ignore the two higher strings since i still would have the other
seven in drop A. 

but i don't want that... i want to use all 9 strings, be ispired and move
waaay out of my comfort zone.

so i decided that EBEADGBEG would be ideal since: 
-i would still have my drop tuned low end but lower thus forcing me to 
transpose existing material.
-i would have a low B as well which i've always liked the tight sound of
and riffs in standard 7 string tuning have always come out more melodic.
-i would still have the open chord voicings of a standard 6 string.
-the high G would give me an extra higher string to experiment with as i
develope my lead playing.

chris lechtford used a high g with his 8 strings and i thought some of his
melodies sounded great.


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## orakle (Aug 4, 2011)

id never go over 8 strings, hell i think 7 strings are more than enough


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## Sikthness (Aug 4, 2011)

Djenting. That's literally the sole reason anyone wants an ERG ever. I just like to extend my musical range. That's why the body of my guitar is a snare drum, so I can play bass/guitar/drum and sing at the same time. Basically I want to be able to do all the things other bands have been doing for years, without having to come into contact with another human being. Also, everyone knows that lower tuning=heavier. I love the personal satisfaction of knowing my 'band' is the heaviest to ever exist. 

Really, your answer is right in the question- Extend Range Guitar. Simply to extend your range. Range is the reason you play a six string guitar in the first place instead of a one string guitar. I recently bought an 8, and there are definately some cool possibilities, but I find myself hardly ever playing it. Might sell it I think, if anyone wants an 8 string Agile in the Cleveland area.


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## Deadnightshade (Aug 4, 2011)

I think it depends.."Solo" artists (either with a 10 string classical guitar or electric guitar or bass ) utilize the extra range to get the tone and the feel of a one man performance with the sound of more than one stringed instruments ,or just aim for a different tone.


Now as far as a traditional band line up,yes,beyond two low strings things start to become uncomfortable for a bass and the guitar to live in a mix.The guitar is a mid frequencies instrument in the tonal spectrum,but as you go lower and lower you'll have to "cheat" into getting a more guitar-like tone (to the point that this is applicable) by the means of baritone scales with thinner strings,correct EQing etc



But it all comes to the song structure and ,unfortunately, your gear and the way you manipulate it in order to seperate the guitar from the bass and create something that a conventional bass-6 string guitar cannot provide.



When talking about extending higher,well it's easier to cut in a mix there ( in fear of sounding too shrill without correct EQing,instrument scale etc) ,since there's no other instrument in a traditional line-up that goes higher , so you can get an interesting result.


At the end of the day,it depends how good you are at utilizing that ERGs.If you can compose at least one segment in each song where the extra range (higher ,lower or both) makes the difference and produces a pleasant and or fresh audio result among the the users of extra range/traditional 6stringer-bass line-up,mission accomplished.


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## TheRevEv (Aug 5, 2011)

Personally, I rarely use the "5 extra notes" you're talking about. I like being able to access certain notes in other places without having to travel down 3/4 of the neck to get the note i want. It's also cool to be able to take up some of the bass's territory and free the bass up to do more melodic things.


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## Explorer (Aug 5, 2011)

To yellow... first off, welcome!

Now that you've read some of the responses, you might get something out of re-reading what you asked, and noticing the limitations/blinders which you yourself have as part of your viewpoint.



yellow said:


> Hey everyone
> 
> ...I just got a 7, and the only difference is five lower notes (since tuning to high A snaps almost within hours/days).
> 
> ...



Your questions all contain the idea that such instruments shouldn't have that range. Your question isn't really what you state; the reiterations all echo this: "What is the point of you people buying an instrument which has a range outside of what I consider acceptable?"

And the answer to that is, others have different tastes than you. That's why you play an instrument with 12 frets to the octave and six (or seven) unique strings/courses, compared to a mountain dulcimer with three unique courses and 8 diatonic frets to the octave. You want to be able to do more than a mountain dulcimer, so you have something with more frets and strings. 

Being able to recognize your personal biases and to be able to perceive how they limit your ability to take in information, can be a valuable lesson. I hope that you got something out of this thread beyond the obvious, and that next time you might be curious about something like this, you might be able to see that your range is to ERG as ukulele is to your range... and that it's all about tastes.

Cheers!


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## ZEBOV (Aug 5, 2011)

For me (I don't own an ERG, but I eventually will), I want to be able to play something as heavy as Meshuggah and as light as Alice in Chains without switching back and forth between guitars, and it's cheaper to be able to do that on one or two guitars instead of 5 or 6. Same thing goes for bass. I do it to save money.


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## TheDuatAwaits (Aug 5, 2011)

ZEBOV said:


> For me (I don't own an ERG, but I eventually will), I want to be able to play something as heavy as Meshuggah and as light as Alice in Chains without switching back and forth between guitars, and it's cheaper to be able to do that on one or two guitars instead of 5 or 6. Same thing goes for bass. I do it to save money.



You're like a mind reader. I was thinking the EXACT same thing as far as ERG's go.


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## Ishan (Aug 5, 2011)

I play 8 almost exclusively, for me, it's about having more notes in the same position (it's handy, I don't have to move as much as if they weren't there) and the fact I can play standard 6, 7 and an octave down on the same guitar (I play in drop E, going drop Eb soon).
And there's the obvious "I like Meshuggah, I NEEEDDDD 8 !!!11!!!11ONE" thing  I'm assuming my fanboyism


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## yellow (Aug 5, 2011)

thanks explorer, its not a range that i think is "acceptable", its a range that im lookin at from the "standard", and that includes the EADGBE 6 string tuning, and by that i mean, what a regularly tuned standard 6 string youd pick up anywhere to play would be like, in other words, the norm/average guitar. the whole reason i asked is to see what people use 7+ strings for because it isnt really a "standard" and i was curious to see the unique applications per individual. maybe my phrasing wasnt clear?

so please keep your feedback coming, i find it interesting to hear what other people do with their (non-standard) axes


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## Dayn (Aug 5, 2011)

I wanted to play Meshuggah, and I wanted a lot of range because that's my style: buy the best quality, most versatile thing I can.


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## yellow (Aug 5, 2011)

also, two things that were on my mind when i was thinkin about this was (1) frequency and (2) playability. do the notes "make it through" well enough to sound/ring out with current guitar pickups and amps and is it comfortable to play with such a wide neck because i would imagine its difficult to get a comfortable playing position, or lets say shred, with having to bend your wrist if you understand what i mean. thats another reason i asked about 9+ and 10+ strings


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## yellow (Aug 5, 2011)

can you guys end your posts with the guitar models you play, for reference. you dont have to include pics if u dont want tho that would be cool too. for example, i play

- Schecter Damien Elite 7 FR


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## AcousticMinja (Aug 5, 2011)

I use a 30" baritone in Drop F# at the moment.  But really, I think the advantage is just the range for me. I would love to play the regular chords of a 6 stringer without them sounding too dull and dark tuned so low and also be able to dish out some low end every once in a while. I even use open tunings and fifth tunings for range sometimes. The more strings, the better. I see it as more opportunities to be more creative. Sure, it sometimes doesn't work in a lot of music and sure, I've seen plenty of people not even utilize it to its fullest. They basically just use the low end side. Thus, I have my baritone 6 string for basically just the low end side of things. 
But some people take it and just explode with awesomeness like Tosin Abasi with his crazy 8 string stuff or Jean Baudin with his gnarly 9 to 12 string basses. 
I think ERG's work for some, but not all. It's all in how you approach it.


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## Ishan (Aug 5, 2011)

Mine is in my signature : Agile Intrepid Pro 828 (original run with a single bridge pickup and the older headstock) with a custom wound pickup by Oni Guitars (I thinking of replacing it with a Dimarzio DA8)


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## Dayn (Aug 5, 2011)

yellow said:


> also, two things that were on my mind when i was thinkin about this was (1) frequency and (2) playability. do the notes "make it through" well enough to sound/ring out with current guitar pickups and amps and is it comfortable to play with such a wide neck because i would imagine its difficult to get a comfortable playing position, or lets say shred, with having to bend your wrist if you understand what i mean. thats another reason i asked about 9+ and 10+ strings


I have an RG2228 with EMG808s with the 18v mod. It sounds perfectly fine, though I think I need to change the batteries and maybe bump the string gauge up by a couple hundredths of an inch on the lower strings.

I also find it outrageously comfortable. Guitars feel absolutely weird without such a wide neck now. I suppose it's comfortable for me because I like very thin, flat necks and my fingers are just long enough to fret an eleven-string without 'bending my wrist' if I understand what you're talking about. When I play my six-string now, my thumb isn't on the back of the neck: it's floating in mid-air about an inch or two from the neck, as if it was touching the very edge of a non-existent eight-string-wide neck.


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## yellow (Aug 5, 2011)

see, id be interested in an 8 if there was a floyd. the agile model with the kahler is the only one i see thats affordable with a trem bar. are there any other whammy bridges available other than kahler, or will there be a 8 string floyd....


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## yellow (Aug 5, 2011)

dayn, you dont bend your wrist when fretting?


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## Ishan (Aug 5, 2011)

There no other 8 string trem brand than Khaler (as I know of) so Agile is your best bet if you want a trem.


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## yellow (Aug 5, 2011)

i wish ibanez would release their 8 string edge man, then id love to get my hands on one.


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## XEN (Aug 5, 2011)

Welcome to the forum!
I play a Schecter Blackjack ATX C-8 (26.5" scale, SD Blackouts) tuned to "standard" - F#BEADGBE

Piano was my first instrument so I've never been satisfied with the range of 6 string guitars. Also, in my prime as a singer, my vocal range was broader than that of standard guitars so I wanted more. I hope to move up to 10 strings soon.


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## yellow (Aug 5, 2011)

thanks dude, nice axe. yeah i started on piano myself, and i always felt guitar was one of the closest instruments range wise on par with piano, and now with these extra strings it definitely is closer


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## Dayn (Aug 5, 2011)

yellow said:


> dayn, you dont bend your wrist when fretting?


Nope. I suppose that's why I like thin necks.


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## Tomo009 (Aug 5, 2011)

Well I managed to get my hands on an RG2228, using stock EMGs, haven't 18v modded them, but considering it.

For me it's a few things, for one I REALLY prefer moving vertically instead of horizontally, therefore it's great to get that huge range in one position as others have said. Also it is for the extra notes as well, I've recently decided to change my tuning, using EAEADGBE instead of the 8 string standard F#BEADGBE. I really love the sound of E, sort of metallic and A has this really clear quality to it, very distinct. While to me F# sounded weak and B I like for Morbid Angel-ish swampy stuff, sound a little muddy but I'm not really writing anything like that at the moment.

It's also comforting knowing you really can get those piercing highs when you want. 

I wouldn't go further than 8, I have reasonably sized hands, but the 8 neck sort of feels like my limit of comfortableness, any further I'd be contorting my wrist.

One thing to note is, a 7 feels like a 6 with an extra string, an 8 feels like a whole different instrument. 6s really do feel like toys to me now, though I do play them still.


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## glassmoon0fo (Aug 5, 2011)

Tomo009 said:


> One thing to note is, a 7 feels like a 6 with an extra string, an 8 feels like a whole different instrument. 6s really do feel like toys to me now, though I do play them still.


 
That passes eventually, especially with a well-built 8 like the 2228 (I have one as well). Play some 6 and 7 string tunes you already know on it, and the feeling will normalize soon enough. Matter of fact, I played some Guthrie Govan last night on my 2228 and it didn't bother me a bit, i even threw in some low e string octaves because hey, I GOT THE FECKING RANGE


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## Ishan (Aug 5, 2011)

I think 8 is my limit as more would get in the way too much I'm afraid.
I've considered 9 strings as it's interesting to double bass part in the same octave (with a 5 strings bass), but I fear it's too impractical when playing 6 strings stuff and having to mute 3 lower strings at the same time.


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## yellow (Aug 5, 2011)

yeah im glad u brought up the wrist because thats one thing i was wondering, like a 7 isnt too bad, takes a lil adjustment, but an 8+ seems like it could get uncomfortable in certain positions, i was curious to see how players worked around that if they did u know


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## Tomo009 (Aug 5, 2011)

yellow said:


> yeah im glad u brought up the wrist because thats one thing i was wondering, like a 7 isnt too bad, takes a lil adjustment, but an 8+ seems like it could get uncomfortable in certain positions, i was curious to see how players worked around that if they did u know



Well for me 8 is natural, but sort of feels like anything more would be a stretch. I don't have small hands though.


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## yellow (Aug 5, 2011)

yeah, speakin of which, i think 8 is cool because it just stops short of entering the bass's normal range, so you kinda meet in the middle. but i really wish they had an 8 string floyd, never played a kahler, and though i hear they are great, the tuning stability of the floyd seems to be a bit better


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## stevemcqueen (Aug 5, 2011)

I have an 8 string because I love being able to tune to standard on my top 6 strings and then have that extra range to really go super low. Playing a riff and then being able to drop it down a whole ocatave is a lot of fun. Especially when I haven't compromised my high notes to be able to go that low. You should listen to Meshuggah, Animals As Leaders, After The Burial, and Scale The Summit (though they tune their 8s to have a high A) and then ask yourself that question again. Not flaming you or anything.


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## yellow (Aug 5, 2011)

i like meshuggah, and i heard a bit of animals....for me and others ive known, the high a breaks really quickly, i realize u werent flamin me, but i was askin a subjective question expectin to get differetn answers


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## Tomo009 (Aug 5, 2011)

yellow said:


> yeah, speakin of which, i think 8 is cool because it just stops short of entering the bass's normal range, so you kinda meet in the middle. but i really wish they had an 8 string floyd, never played a kahler, and though i hear they are great, the tuning stability of the floyd seems to be a bit better



I don't really like floating trems, so it's probably easier for me. I hate the tone lost/shifting from palm muting and it just doesn't feel as "solid" to me.


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## Konfyouzd (Aug 5, 2011)

MistaSnowman said:


> ...and being able to construct 'new' chords.



That's a perk of which I've only recently begun to take advantage... 

EDIT: I play an Ibanez RG7 (I have several) and an Agile Intrepid 828 Dual


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## Konfyouzd (Aug 5, 2011)

ZEBOV said:


> For me (I don't own an ERG, but I eventually will), I want to be able to play something as heavy as Meshuggah and as light as Alice in Chains without switching back and forth between guitars, and it's cheaper to be able to do that on one or two guitars instead of 5 or 6. Same thing goes for bass. I do it to save money.



Excellent name drops... I approve


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## Waelstrum (Aug 5, 2011)

Ishan said:


> There no other 8 string trem brand than Khaler (as I know of) so Agile is your best bet if you want a trem.



Agile have one with a vintage style trem (or whatever it is that one calls this thing). It's no floyd, but it's an alternative if you don't like khalers and don't need to pull up.
Agile Intrepid Pro 828 Nat MN Trem at RondoMusic.com


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## Explorer (Aug 5, 2011)

@yellow - I have four 8-strings, neck-through construction, and at this point they are all tuned EADGFCAD. Three have a scale length of 25.5" and have active EMG808 pickups. One has a scale length of 28.625" and currently has passive Cepheus pickups, but I have a set of Dimarzio D-Activator 8 pickups on order with Tom Drinkwater of the Oakland Axe Factory. I'll be installing those along with a Fender TBX tone knob, allowing me to roll off either bass or treble. 

I have not had any problems with the pickups not having enough range. With the EMGs, that shouldn't be surprising, as before EMG started manufacturing pickups for ERGs, many ERG players just used EMG bass pickups, which had the same frequency response. I've also never noticed problems with the Cephus pickups.

One can run into problems if one is using an amplification system which isn't full range. I prefer something which is capable of full range and flat response, so I can decide if I want to skew that response away from flat. I prefer to be able to choose my sonic contour, rather than having to live with one specific hump or scoop right out of the box. 

----

I've had one of the 25.5" guitars and the passive 28.625" tuned in full fifths (Bb0 F1 C2 G2 D3 A3 E4 B4 at 25.5", and Ab0 Eb1 Bb2 F2 C3 G3 D4 A4 at 28.625. That required replacing the lowest saddles with the smaller saddles available direclty from Hipshot, allowing more room for the saddles to travel further towards the tail. (There have been several threads about full fifths tuning, so if you're interested, you should do a search on the subject.) After a few years of that though, I started exploring my present tuning, which gives me the range of a four-string bass combined with that of a six-string guitar. I've been pretty happy, and didn't think I'd have to add anything beyond that.

However... I've been playing more five-string and six-string bass, and have been wanting to add those lowest notes onto my main instrument. With my current tuning, I lack only the low B0 to cover the full range of notes I have using two instruments (guitar and bass). Knowing that I currently actively incorporate and use the low B0 makes me want to just add one onto my next ERG purchase.


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## Sephael (Aug 5, 2011)

I had a friend who tuned all his 8 strings really weird and unique. He had one for example that was tuned AEDADGBE so that the lowest E was actually tuned higher than the lowest D, and a couple of the others also had non sequential tunings.


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## bostjan (Aug 5, 2011)

I like ERG's because they have extended range and more choices for finger positions.

I think it is a natural progression from 16th century guitars that had four strings (the DGBE of a standard guitar) to post-renaissance guitars that added the low A to the modern guitars with the low E. Adding a high A imitates the lute and allows some additional arpeggio fingerings up the neck. Adding a low B and even low F# adds great riff possibilities without sacrificing standard tuning. I can't speak for guitars with more than nine strings, as the only guitars with such a setup that I have played were Chapman-style for touch playing.


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## m4rK (Aug 6, 2011)

I've been playing 7s forever and before that I had my old 6s tuned to an A. This year a bought a Schecter damien elite 8 on a whim and it just seems "normal" to me now. Honestly I've played 1 of my other 4 guitars once since I bought this.. The range, the odd chords, the different styles and grooves you can do with an ERG, well I guess you just have to own one to find out if its your thing.. I know I waste hours and hours of my life with mine!


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## anne (Aug 6, 2011)

OP is doing his best to think inside the box -- already has rules and limits before he's even played a note. My bass never told my guitar to leave his F# alone...


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## Metal_Webb (Aug 6, 2011)

My ERG is a Schecter Damien Elite 8, tuned low-high F Bb F Bb Eb F Bb Eb. The intervals I have with that let me faff about with clean, chorusy/delay chords on the top end then I can switch over to chugging like a boss on the low F/Bb  It's definately the most comfortable guitar I've ever played, my 6's all feel uncomfortable now, especially my Mockingbird with the matchstick neck it has on it .

Getting an 8 however was an awesome purchase. It's making me think differently about playing, phrasing and when you hold the thing, you feel


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## Murdstone (Aug 6, 2011)

I'm often confused by people talking about how uncomfortable it is to play instruments. My 10 string is as comfortable as my 8, both of which are even more comfortable than the 6. Just because it's bigger doesn't mean you're going to get insta-carpal tunnel playing it - you just have to adjust.


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## yellow (Aug 6, 2011)

thanks for the interesting replies. 

@explorer...thanks for all the detail, really cool. you have a few 8 strings, have you thought of going up to 9 or 10? and what amplification do you use?

bostjan, that was a cool theory about the natural progression

anne,all u should assume is what i stated in my post which was asking about ERGs from a "standard" perspective (and thats the only box id assume u mean), which is why an ERG is called an ERG and not a Standard range guitar, extended range implies going beyond the standard. so i dont know what youre talkin bout and i dont think you do either, never played a note???

metal webb, awesome pic lol

murdstone, im talkin about moving around the fingerboard uncomfortably, like from one position and string set to another, sometimes its a big adjustment and i was wondering how fluid the adjustment might feel playing in the first position(say the first 5 frets) on the lowest strings, to the middle of the neck with higher strings, and then movling even higher up the neck but back to the lower strings, like id imagine runs would be harder to play, but i agree about adjustmeent being key

so it seems many have similar reasons: chord construction, fingering positions, increased tonal range in general (more lows without sacrificing high from downtunin), having a little more to color with without sacrificing your primaries ,to spin off an analogy

thanks again for sharing everyone


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## anne (Aug 6, 2011)

yellow said:


> anne,all u should assume is what i stated in my post which was asking about ERGs from a "standard" perspective (and thats the only box id assume u mean), which is why an ERG is called an ERG and not a Standard range guitar, extended range implies going beyond the standard. so i dont know what youre talkin bout and i dont think you do either, never played a note???



Not assuming anything -- you used words like "belongs" and "bass's territory", even "ERG" instead of "8-string". Who says an 8-string guitar has to have extended range? You could tune with thirds, redundant strings, overlapping strings, etc (consider coursed instruments, Sonic Youth). Even the terminology "ERG" is a limit on the concept of an eight-stringed instrument.


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## HighGain510 (Aug 6, 2011)

Asking what is the point of ERGs is akin to asking what's the point of an amplifier. It's in the name dude.... gives you an extended range beyond the "traditional" ranges that a guitar typically sits in, it can be used for a variety of things, but the way you're asking about it is rather obtuse.


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## yellow (Aug 6, 2011)

theres nothing obtuse at all in what i asked if u consider that i am asking from a standard tuned 6 string pov. i wanted to know how people use ERGs, in other words, for what purpose/what is the point, and it wasnt just 8 strings, in other words 7+ strings, including 7,8,9,10,11 and so on.......standards exist for a reason, otherwise everything would be relative and nearly undefinable. an instruments range has a standard which i hope wed agree since there is a thing as standard tuning and I ASKED the question to learn what other people are doing , which i think some people are missing. 

i didnt come here to say 'hey ERGs are pointless' in a roundabout inquiry, i just bought a new seven string a couple of weeks ago, so to put it clearer, the bass exists because it has its own range and function, otherwise no one would have bothered inventing the instrument, so i was wondering why guitarists wanted a "bass on top" to put it a certain way, and how they used it. i got my answer obviously....positions,chords, and obviously range.

so i just wanted to hear some personal experience with ERG's, and i got some good feedback.


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## Waelstrum (Aug 7, 2011)

I think the reason that people are answering a little harsher than you expect is you're using similar words and phrases that trolls sometimes use here, although I think that in this case your query is genuine.

I see it sort of like a string quartet. The highest notes on a cello can be as high as some notes that would more traditionally be played on the violin, but sound quite different to a violin playing it. ERGs expand the range of notes that the guitar has, but it also expands the different timbres and textures that the ensemble has as well. For example, take a traditional single line riff. Normally, one can have one guitar play it in 'standard guitar range' (for want of a better label), one guitar in standard range plus one bass in bass range, one bass in bass range, one guitar in standard guitar range plus bass in standard guitar range, two guitars etc... But if one expands the range of the guitar into 'bass' range as you called it, one has more options, like having the guitar play in the same octave as the bass with or without the bass, if one has a second guitar one can have bass in bass range guitar in bass range and guitar in guitar range etc...

And that is just the start. It's not just four or eight extra notes, it's the same notes in a different octave and timbre.


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## squid-boy (Aug 7, 2011)

highlordmugfug said:


> No one ever complains that pianos have too much range. Why limit yourself to accepted norms on other instruments?
> [/thread]



This.


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## yellow (Aug 7, 2011)

thanks for the insight waelstrum. i could see i was gettin flamy trollish reactions but not being a troll , being new here, and not knowin it was common for "guitar trolls" to frequent here, i didnt expect it, which is why i tried to clarify my question. so yeah, im glad u used the word timbre, which is what i took as tonal extensions and what not.


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## in-pursuit (Aug 7, 2011)

*mod edit: save this kind of crap for OT*


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## Konfyouzd (Aug 7, 2011)

yellow said:


> theres nothing obtuse at all in what i asked if u consider that i am asking from a standard tuned 6 string pov. i wanted to know how people use ERGs, in other words, for what purpose/what is the point, and it wasnt just 8 strings, in other words 7+ strings, including 7,8,9,10,11 and so on.......standards exist for a reason, otherwise everything would be relative and nearly undefinable. an instruments range has a standard which i hope wed agree since there is a thing as standard tuning and I ASKED the question to learn what other people are doing , which i think some people are missing.
> 
> i didnt come here to say 'hey ERGs are pointless' in a roundabout inquiry, i just bought a new seven string a couple of weeks ago, so to put it clearer, the bass exists because it has its own range and function, otherwise no one would have bothered inventing the instrument, so i was wondering why guitarists wanted a "bass on top" to put it a certain way, and how they used it. i got my answer obviously....positions,chords, and obviously range.
> 
> so i just wanted to hear some personal experience with ERG's, and i got some good feedback.



"Standards" exist to appeal to a wider range of ppl. That which adheres to a standard has no more point to it than that which deviates from the norm.


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## GhostsofAcid (Aug 7, 2011)

i play my 7 for two reasons:

the first is that it simply felt natural. I walked into a guitar store one day intent on leaving with a new guitar, but not sure exactly what. After trying out a few i saw an RG7321, and started playing it. It felt like how a guitar was supposed to feel. Six string necks feel uncomfortably small to me, i can't stand playing them anymore, and i don't even have particularly large hands. Of course, i started out musically playing 5 string bass, so that might have something to do with it.

the second reason i play a seven is because it's possible to get all the range of a drop tuned 6 string guitar, without sacrificing any high range. I was always conflicted before because i loved to play stuff along the lines of Nile, In flames, etc. but hated the feel of drop tuned guitars/losing high range.

I'll probably never play an 8+ guitar (at least primarily), because a 7 feels like the perfect amount of extra range to me. just my


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## bostjan (Aug 7, 2011)

EDIT: Double Post...weird that hasn't happened to me for a long time.


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## bostjan (Aug 7, 2011)

Here's a question - Why should six strings be standard? 
Here's another - Why should seven strings be standard? 

If there is a standard number of strings, why should that number be standard? Should the existence of a standard deter manufacturers from making anything else?

Same question for violins - Why have four strings? Why not five?


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## All_¥our_Bass (Aug 7, 2011)

I don't play an 8 (I want one though) but I have an RG7321 that I love and a 6 string Hello Kitty Strat tuned in 5ths from low F to high E. I'm gonna put the 7 in 5ths too-with a high B! I like 5ths since you get more range in one position, you have easier access to larger intervals which makes for some great chordal possibilities and imo makes arpeggios easier, and big major and minor chords are easy to play all across the neck.

Even if you don't play notes that you didn't have before, having the same notes on different strings allows you to play the notes with different timbre-like how an open E sounds different than low B at the fifth fret.

And about getting in the way of the bass I use eq pedals to get rid of that woofy bottom (~100 hz and everything below it) those bass range notes can have, to improve clarity and as a side effect it makes room for real bass.


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## bostjan (Aug 7, 2011)

I would love to mess with a celloblaster...I guess I could turn a six string into a celloblaster +1.


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## All_¥our_Bass (Aug 7, 2011)

bostjan said:


> I guess I could turn a six string into a celloblaster +1.


Please do try it!  It is lovely.


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## The Reverend (Aug 7, 2011)

There is no point to ERGs. They aren't some sort of specialized tool, or something like a pawn in a chess set, with only one function. It's an instrument, something used to express one's self. It's one of probably tens of thousands of different types, so your question is pretty much moot.

I don't like the bias that I and other people have had toward ERGs, and that some still do, which is the whole "You don't have to go lower to be heavy, you don't need that many strings," whatever whatever, but then I started looking at the art world.

At the Menil Museum of Modern Art in Houston, I saw a slab of clay with a bite taken right out of the middle of it. Some people I was with laughed, but I thought it was amazing. They think art should be chubby white women showing a titty or two, or else statues of Greek gods. I understood that art can be anything. By the same token, how I use a guitar to express myself and make sounds that I find pleasant is entirely up to me. I could play a 10-string guitar and only do those dissonant tritone things Emmure does, but if it makes me happy, who are you to say "You, Jesse, are using this instrument, this tool of expression, in an incorrect manner." If I want to use the world's most expensive custom guitar to beat on trash cans in one of my songs, shouldn't I be allowed to?

I feel like the guitar world needs a Declaration of Independence or something, or like an Artist's Manifesto, defining and defending our right to do whatever the fuck we please with our instruments, whether it's based or reason or purely just because we want to .


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## BangandBreach (Aug 8, 2011)

bostjan said:


> I would love to mess with a celloblaster...I guess I could turn a six string into a celloblaster +1.



I'd buy two of those.


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## Ishan (Aug 8, 2011)

bostjan said:


> I would love to mess with a celloblaster...I guess I could turn a six string into a celloblaster +1.



You could tune one of your 6 to NST and be done with it


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## TheBloodstained (Aug 8, 2011)

The reason why I play an ERG/8string?
...because it's fun! ^^

I can't say anything that haven't already been said! Though I would like to clarify that the main reason that my RG2228 ended up being my main axe is because it has the best neck I've ever played! 
When I play different stuff I mostly just use the 8th string for alternate positions, which is a really nice option to have. When I write stuff I intend to incorporate the 8th string, but I have a tendency to end up chugging away on the F#, which isn't necessarily a bad thing but tends to get boring composition wise.


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## SevenString (Aug 8, 2011)

flo said:


> Why have a bass + a guitar if you can put it all into one instrument?
> 
> Play low _and_ high notes at the same time and stuff like this.
> 
> I kid of cause. *The true meaning of ERGs is to scare people.*




Isn't THAT the truth. 

It's a great deterrent to all those "grabby" guitarists who think that me being "on break" between sets is their chance to start screwing with my gear.

I wish I had a dollar for every time some idiot started walking toward my 8-string guitar with obvious intent to "grab", only to suddenly get that "oh shit!" expression on his face, followed by an about-face back to his seat.


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## Hemi-Powered Drone (Aug 8, 2011)

It's logical, to me, to have seven strings instead of six. More notes is always a good thing, in my opinion. Plus it gives you more chords to use. But if you're going to just use six strings, just use a sixer.


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## Jakke (Sep 1, 2011)

I started using one because I wanted to play Nevermore, plus that I love to frighten people... They get the weirdest expressions when I mention seven string guitars.
I think the point is, as already pointed out, because we _can_ do it. Also, why not? 
That is as good of an answer as anything.

I mainly play a custom baritone 7 from Ran Guitars, I tune one half step down. I also rock an Ibanez UV777 when I'm in the mood, which is often


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## Van Heezey (Sep 1, 2011)

SevenString said:


> Isn't THAT the truth.
> 
> It's a great deterrent to all those "grabby" guitarists who think that me being "on break" between sets is their chance to start screwing with my gear.
> 
> I wish I had a dollar for every time some idiot started walking toward my 8-string guitar with obvious intent to "grab", only to suddenly get that "oh shit!" expression on his face, followed by an about-face back to his seat.



Wait... what do you do where kids come up to play your gear?!


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## nightflameauto (Sep 2, 2011)

The Reverend said:


> I feel like the guitar world needs a Declaration of Independence or something, or like an Artist's Manifesto, defining and defending our right to do whatever the fuck we please with our instruments, whether it's based or reason or purely just because we want to .



I love you. This is just a beautiful statement, and something along the lines of what I've been trying to express with the guitar for years. It saddens me the number of musicians, people who I used to think should be some of the more open minded individuals you'd meet, lock in on hard TRUTHS that are nothing more than their own biases.

I guess my musical weirdness has led me down the eight string guitar path. Long ways from the violin where I started.

I just love rhythm and melody. I have yet to meet a stringed instrument that doesn't allow me to express both of those aspects of my musical infatuation.

I would rock the hello kitty 8 to no end.


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## electricred (Sep 4, 2011)

The concept that certain frequencies are strictly "bass territory" is absurd. How about concentrating on music rather than the usefulness of extended range instruments?


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## Seventary (Sep 8, 2011)

What's the point?? Who cares. If some people (myself included) like playing ERG's, then that's the only point needed as far as i'm concerned. People are different and have varied preferences.


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## walleye (Sep 8, 2011)

this thread was such a painful read. i think the OPs question is very relevant.

word to the wise to you mr yellow, don't be mean to ss.org members' toys, they get extremely girly. not that you were mean at all by the way. they just get very very nancy.

my answer: i like extended range because i'm anal about tuning. i want there to the 6 strings i know inside out and i dont want to change them. so i can play drop d songs on a 7 etc.

everyone develops standards and ideals and everyone who reads this section of the forum has their reasons for wanting 7+ strings. its so painful how everyone in this thread has reacted so badly.

as i said before. very relevant question, and people should respect it more


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## The Reverend (Sep 9, 2011)

walleye said:


> this thread was such a painful read. i think the OPs question is very relevant.
> 
> word to the wise to you mr yellow, don't be mean to ss.org members' toys, they get extremely girly. not that you were mean at all by the way. they just get very very nancy.
> 
> ...



Reacted badly? Meh. It's a relevant question, but an incredibly painful one to ask. There IS NO POINT. It's not something that can be answered with some kind of technical response, at least generally speaking. A guitarist is an artist, and with that label comes all the vagueness and wonderful ambiguity that title implies.


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## pink freud (Sep 9, 2011)

An ERG is akin to a sportscar. Some people buy one to use to it's full potential, making use of the entire range of the instrument, some people buy them purely for the exclusivity of owning one without regards to the performance, and others buy them to only partake in a single aspect of them (the "three lowest strings only" kiddies).

Just like beauty, usefulness is in the eye of the beholder.


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## AntiTankDog (Sep 10, 2011)

I know it's been said before, but this forum has corrupted me completely.

I've had a handful of 7's, and then a couple 8's.

Last year, playing my 8 string, I looked down at my left hand and thought "I could handle one more string, higher I think, not lower. That would be cool."

Now I have an Agile 7 Pendulum, Halo 8 Octavia, and Agile 9 Septor.

I have a couple nice 6's (Parker & Steinberger) but rarely play them.

Luckily, I think it will stop at 9 strings. My hands aren't huge, I can handle the 9, but no more. Also, I really don't want to go any higher or lower in pitch, so there's no reason to. 

-> to SevenString: People walk up and mess with your gear when you're taking a break? Around here that would get you pounded into the ground, rightly so.


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## Lankles (Sep 10, 2011)

walleye said:


> this thread was such a painful read. i think the OPs question is very relevant.
> 
> word to the wise to you mr yellow, don't be mean to ss.org members' toys, they get extremely girly. not that you were mean at all by the way. they just get very very nancy.
> 
> ...



You must have some pretty thin skin if you thought that was a "bad reaction". All I saw was the OP getting his question answered.


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## Explorer (Sep 11, 2011)

walleye said:


> this thread was such a painful read. i think the OPs question is very relevant.
> 
> word to the wise to you mr yellow, don't be mean to ss.org members' toys, they get extremely girly. not that you were mean at all by the way. they just get very very *nancy*.
> 
> ...



Interesting that you're calling us faggots, while maintaining that others should be respectful. Why be hateful and using terms as insults? If you're going to be homophobic, why bring it to a forum with a lot of metal players, given the stature of people like Halford. Poor form.

You might have missed the original post.



yellow said:


> ...if we are playing "guitar" why go into the bass's territory. ...i couldnt imagine a 9, 10, or 11+ guitar.
> 
> 6 is definitely enough, ...9 and up just seems a lil too much to me. like why have bass strings on a guitar?
> 
> so yeah, what do you think is the point of going into frequencies that low, (which really belong to another instrument)? if we went into high A and up i could see that, but i just dont understanding playin into such low notes.





yellow said:


> im just wondering what the point of going into bass frequencies is to you.



I noted then that the OP's questions all contained the idea that such instruments shouldn't have that range. The true question, repeated more than once, was "What is the point of you people buying an instrument which has a range outside of what I consider acceptable?"

Anyway, the OP did the equivalent of going into an effect forum and stating that effects were outside of what he viewed as acceptable. That made everyone think he was trolling.


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## ra1der2 (Sep 11, 2011)

Isn't the whole point of music to take you on a journey of exploration and broaden the senses via freedom of expression?

Enhance your life, entice your senses, enrich your soul, expand your mind.

Why question the why when you should be questioning the why not, capisce?


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## walleye (Sep 11, 2011)

Explorer said:


> Interesting that you're calling us faggots, while maintaining that others should be respectful. Why be hateful and using terms as insults? If you're going to be homophobic, why bring it to a forum with a lot of metal players, given the stature of people like Halford. Poor form.
> 
> You might have missed the original post.
> 
> ...



i wasnt being homophobic. you misinterpret my use of the word sissy (or whatever i said i cant remember) cant be bothered explaining it. just take my word for it

i ddint miss the point of the original post. i feel that i are him are on a similar wavelength. asking what the point of something isn't automatically an insult, as some people in this interpreted it to be

maybe the OP was tactless and could have worded himself more politically correct (?). whatever. 
perfect example of this thread is the "why do you use a 12 string guitar, i dont get it?" - "i play two handed tapping" - "oh cool, now i understand!"
there is nothing wrong with that ^


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## walleye (Sep 11, 2011)

Explorer said:


> Interesting that you're calling us faggots, while maintaining that others should be respectful. Why be hateful and using terms as insults? If you're going to be homophobic, why bring it to a forum with a lot of metal players, given the stature of people like Halford. Poor form.
> 
> .



i just reread my post. i said "girly". i think it is you, sir, who is the homophobic because your brain instantly made the word girly synonymous with "faggot". nice work. Heterosexual males can be just as "girly" as homosexuals when they have the right buttons pushed 

eg:

dave mustaine: you can play in megadeth chris, but no 7s, you have to play a 6.
brod: >TANTRUM<

that dialogue is purely speculatory and probably didnt even happen, but an example of ERG girliness.

edit: re-re-read the OP again. i still think its a finely worded question aimed at the community. it wasnt disrespectful or anything of the sort.


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## Jakke (Sep 11, 2011)

walleye said:


> i just reread my post. i said "girly". i think it is you, sir, who is the homophobic because your brain instantly made the word girly synonymous with "faggot". nice work. Heterosexual males can be just as "girly" as homosexuals when they have the right buttons pushed
> 
> eg:
> 
> ...



I think you didn't read Explorers quote, he had fattened the word "nancy". And nancy, and not girly, is assosciated with homosexuals


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## walleye (Sep 11, 2011)

ah i see
well i've never associated it with strictly homosexual i would have said nancy was synonymous with girly. 
agree to disagree? somehow i don't think he will and i think he'll keep pushing it that im a homophobe. unfortunately but not the end of the world. if anyones offended i apologise


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## Jakke (Sep 11, 2011)

God no, anyone who has gone out high school has been called a fag at least once...

I thought I should just inform you, so you'd actually know what he's talking about


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## Explorer (Sep 12, 2011)

@walleye - It's not that the OP was asking for answers necessarily, it's that he kept making the point that the lower frequencies belonged to another instrument, and that in his opinion guitar had no excuse to be there. 

There's a difference between asking, "How do you use that?" and, "Why are you doing something which I judge to be wrong?" 

Or, to use your hypothetical, "Why do you use a 12 string guitar, when I think it has too much range?" - "i play two handed tapping." And then, a few posts later, "But what's the point of you going into the range I already stated was too low?"

Cheers!


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