# Patriots..... spies? wtf!



## Vince (Sep 10, 2007)

ESPN - Sources: Pats suspected of stealing Jets' signals - NFL

*NFL security confiscated a video camera and its tape from a New England Patriots employee on the team's sideline during Sunday's game against the Jets in a suspected spying incident, sources said.

The camera and its tape were placed in a sealed box and forwarded to the league office for investigation, the sources said.*

"We don't have any comment," an NFL spokesman said Monday.

The Patriots' cameraman was suspected of aiming his camera at the Jets' defensive coaches who were sending signals to their unit on the field, the sources said. The league also is investigating some radio frequency issues that occurred during the game.

The league's competition committee could conduct a conference call about the incident, which violates NFL policy, and ultimately recommend a penalty that could cost the Patriots a future draft pick or picks if it verifies that the team was spying on the Jets.

*"It's not their first time," a member of the committee, who did not wish to be identified, said.*

*In fact, Green Bay Packers president Bob Harlan confirmed a similar incident that occurred when the Patriots played at Lambeau Field last Nov. 19.* The same cameraman who was questioned by NFL security on Sunday was also the one whom the Packers removed from the sideline and escorted from the field during their 2006 game, according to Packers security official Doug Collins.

"From what I can remember, he had quite a fit when we took him out," Harlan said. "We had gotten word before the game that they [the Patriots] did this sort of thing, so we were looking for it."

A Jets official declined comment Monday, directing an inquiry to the league office. The Patriots also did not have immediate comment.


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## Popsyche (Sep 10, 2007)




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## Chris (Sep 10, 2007)

I'z in ur stadiumz
Fimin' ur playbookz


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## Chris (Sep 10, 2007)

We beat the Packers like 31-0 that game, if I recall correctly.


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## Steve (Sep 10, 2007)

Chris said:


> I'z in ur stadiumz
> Fimin' ur playbookz


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## jacksonplayer (Sep 11, 2007)

With the team the Pats have assembled this year, they hardly need to do anything like this. Still, it wouldn't surprise me.


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## garcia3441 (Sep 11, 2007)

It would suprise me if the Pats were the ONLY team doing it.


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## Beta (Sep 11, 2007)

I'z in da leeg offis
Takin ur draft pikz


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## Rick (Sep 11, 2007)

Chris said:


> I'z in ur stadiumz
> Fimin' ur playbookz


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## zimbloth (Sep 11, 2007)

I don't condone cheating, if the Pats did this its lame, but this is an overblown story. ESPN is over sensationalizing things always, making like they 'stole a victory from the Jets'. The Pats completely dominated the Jets and it had nothing to do with taping signals. Randy Moss didn't outrun 3 defensive backs for a 50 yard TD catch because the Pats had some schmo on the sidelines taping signals. Their offensive line didnt completely prevent the Jets rushers from getting to Brady because of a video tape. They are just better.

That said, its embarassing and Billicheck has some explaining to do. The fact people are talking down to the Pats when theyre probably the best team in the league (top 3 at worst), is a shame.


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## Metal Ken (Sep 11, 2007)

So wait... im not a sports guy, but... 

Cant everyone see the signals anyway? Then whats the problem with taping them?


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## Groff (Sep 11, 2007)

can someone explain to me, as a person who does not enjoy football, what the whole "stealing signals" thing is and how it's cheating? I'm curious, and confused.


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## garcia3441 (Sep 11, 2007)

Chris said:


> We beat the Packers like 31-0 that game, if I recall correctly.



It helps when you know what plays they're going to call in advance.


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## Beta (Sep 11, 2007)

The head coach of the Jets, Eric Mangini, was a defensive backs coach, then defensive coordinator (in 2005), for the Patriots.

It's tremendously useful for the Patriots to try to steal the Jets' signals, because if Mangini is running a similar defense to what he ran when with the Patriots, one who is in the know can remember exactly what the coverage and rush schemes are, and call plays accordingly. And though the signals may be clearly visible, videotaping them allows one to correlate what signals go with what defensive plays.

So it's very debatable whether or not the Patriots completely dominated the Jets on talent alone (the same can't be said for the Packers, who've sucked for some time now). When the commissioner of the league tells all teams they had better not attempt to steal signals, it's probably a good idea not to employ people to videotape the opposing team's signals, especially if you're a team that's been busted for it previously. At least have the fuckin' smarts not to hire the same guy who got busted doing it the first time.

And it's reportedly not a question of "if" anymore. If the story on ESPN is accurate, Goodell has decided they violated league rules.

Edit: The Patriots, according to the ESPN story, allegedly had more radio frequencies available to them than league rules allow. This means they could have been monitoring opponents' radio signals to the quarterback or linebacker/other defensive player, or could have used them to relay in plays for audibles based on stolen signals.


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## Steve (Sep 11, 2007)

I'z noz da playz.
I'z hitz da holez.


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## Beta (Sep 11, 2007)

One more thing to add: beating the Jets means beating a team in the division for the Patriots. Winning the division means they don't have to play all their playoff games, other than the Super Bowl, on the road. The Jets were the AFC Wild Card last year. And the Jets beat the Patriots 17-14 in their second meeting last year- in New England's home stadium. If the Jets hadn't lost games they shouldn't have to Buffalo and Cleveland, they would have had a 12-4 record, just like the Patriots. Both the Jets and the Patriots were 4-2 in the division last year.

In a division where half the teams are almost guaranteed to be weak (Miami and Buffalo), and where you're seeing those weak teams twice each, you can rack up four easy wins, and six if you steal the signals of one of your old assistant coaches.

10-11 wins probably gets you the division title in the AFC East. So, if they beat all the teams in the division twice, Cleveland at home (the weakest team on their schedule, and they also feature a former Patriots defensive coordinator as head coach- Romeo Crennel), and snag wins from four of the remaining teams they play (Dallas, the Giants, Washington and Cincinnati being the most likely victims) the division title most likely is theirs. And the Patriots would own any tiebreaker in the event one of the teams in the division equals their record.

The Jets also have an easier schedule than the Patriots do. So, if cheating can tilt the odds of winning within your division, there's plenty of incentive to cheat. And if you can pull it off in all your other games, too...


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## zimbloth (Sep 11, 2007)

Thats all well and good dude, but Chad Pennington is horrible and you don't go far in the AFC with a bad quarterback and no running game. The Jets are mediocre at best, they couldn't beat us even if they knew all OUR plays. 

I really think all of this stuff is overrated. If we know all their plays, how come we barely got to Pennington and got NO interceptions? Also, on defense, the patriots receivers were well covered, they just out-ran/out-jumped their defensive backs. 

This is bad shit and the Pats should be penalized, but the actual tangible affect on the game is very small IMO.


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## Beta (Sep 11, 2007)

zimbloth said:


> Thats all well and good dude, but Chad Pennington is horrible and you don't go far in the AFC with a bad quarterback and no running game. The Jets are mediocre at best, they couldn't beat us even if they knew all OUR plays.
> 
> I really think all of this stuff is overrated. If we know all their plays, how come we barely got to Pennington and got NO interceptions? Also, on defense, the patriots receivers were well covered, they just out-ran/out-jumped their defensive backs.



The Patriots are suspected of stealing DEFENSIVE signals. So all that Pennington stuff is meaningless.

But, yeah, Pennington is freaking horrible. He played in all 16 games last year, and got the Jets to the playoffs without the benefit of a running game, and beat the Patriots on their wretched field (you know, the one the league had to tell the team to re-sod because they intentionally let it erode to make it more difficult for opposing kickers) during the regular season. The Jets should just cut him now.

Also, wasn't Pennington sacked four times in Sunday's game? Four sacks is barely getting to the opponent's quarterback? Good luck getting to Peyton Manning that much.



zimbloth said:


> the actual tangible affect on the game is very small IMO.



Sorry, but spoken like a homer. If that was true, the league wouldn't make rules against filming your opponent's signal callers. And the league clearly has rules against it.


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## Mastodon (Sep 12, 2007)

I see no problem with this at all.


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## Chris (Sep 13, 2007)




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## DelfinoPie (Sep 13, 2007)

^^


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## Chris (Sep 13, 2007)

garcia3441 said:


> It helps when you know what plays they're going to call in advance.



I'm one of the millions of people each week who watches Monday Night Football. I'm going to cheat by staring at the hand signals as well. 

They're fucking hand signals. It's not like the guy was filming the playbook, bugging conversations or actually doing anything that everyone else in the stadium couldn't do. He was looking at the coordinator, and happened to have a camera.


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## Chris (Sep 13, 2007)

Beta said:


> The head coach of the Jets, Eric Mangini, was a defensive backs coach, then defensive coordinator (in 2005), for the Patriots.
> 
> It's tremendously useful for the Patriots to try to steal the Jets' signals, because if Mangini is running a similar defense to what he ran when with the Patriots, one who is in the know can remember exactly what the coverage and rush schemes are, and call plays accordingly. And though the signals may be clearly visible, videotaping them allows one to correlate what signals go with what defensive plays.
> 
> ...



You have to be a Jets fan.


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## Steve (Sep 13, 2007)

Chris said:


> You have to be a Jets fan.



How did he get past the screening process?!?!? Sheesh, we need to be careful, next thing you know a Yankee fan will join the forum.


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## Beta (Sep 13, 2007)

Chris said:


> You have to be a Jets fan.



Wrong.  I'm just someone who can make the obvious connections as to why you'd want to do it, especially against the Jets.

I'm a Chargers fan, for the record, and I hate the Patriots, Jets, Giants, Knicks, Rangers, Islanders, Celtics, and- most of all- I hate, hate, hate the fucking Yankees.



Steve said:


> How did he get past the screening process?!?!? Sheesh, we need to be careful, next thing you know a Yankee fan will join the forum.


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## Chris (Sep 13, 2007)

If you honestly think that the patriots couldn't beat the Jets without filming their coordinator's hand gestures in the middle of the game, you don't know much about football dude. No offense. 

This whole scandal is nothing but a cop-out for all the crybabies who couldn't beat us to cling to like the losers that they are.


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## Beta (Sep 13, 2007)

Chris said:


> If you honestly think that the patriots couldn't beat the Jets without filming their coordinator's hand gestures in the middle of the game, you don't know much about football dude. No offense.
> 
> This whole scandal is nothing but a cop-out for all the crybabies who couldn't beat us to cling to like the losers that they are.



Or, you could stop making assumptions about what I think and what I know. Go back and find where I said they couldn't beat the Jets without filming signals. Go ahead. On second thought, don't bother, because you won't find it since it's not there.

Your punk-ass team got busted cheating again is all that this scandal amounts to.

No offense.


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## Drew (Sep 13, 2007)

Beta said:


> No offense.



 

*insert really obnoxious comment about knowing your mother in the biblical sense*

No offense.


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## Chris (Sep 13, 2007)

Beta said:


> Or, you could stop making assumptions about what I think and what I know. Go back and find where I said they couldn't beat the Jets without filming signals. Go ahead. On second thought, don't bother, because you won't find it since it's not there.
> 
> Your punk-ass team got busted cheating again is all that this scandal amounts to.
> 
> No offense.



Holy shit, did I hit a nerve?  How about where you say this:



you said:


> I'm just someone who can make the obvious connections as to why you'd want to do it, especially against the Jets.



How about this: I think you're an oversensitive pussy who's taking the internet too seriously.  I hope that doesn't make too many assumptions for you. But do assume that I think you can go fuck yourself.


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## JJ Rodriguez (Sep 13, 2007)

Drew said:


> *insert really obnoxious comment about knowing your mother in the biblical sense*
> 
> No offense.



Comment about football and how it's fans get really defensive about it.


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## Chris (Sep 13, 2007)

This guy is totally a Jets fan.


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## Beta (Sep 13, 2007)

Chris said:


> How about this: I think you're an oversensitive pussy who's taking the internet too seriously.



Fair enough.



Chris said:


> But do assume that I think you can go fuck yourself.



Ditto (that I think it's fair enough, not that you can go fuck yourself).


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## YYZ2112 (Sep 13, 2007)

How about them Yankees


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## Beta (Sep 13, 2007)

Chris said:


> This guy is totally a Jets fan.


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## Rick (Sep 13, 2007)

This is why I love college football.


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## Chris (Sep 13, 2007)

YYZ2112 said:


> How about them Yankees



I hate you.


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## garcia3441 (Sep 13, 2007)

Chris said:


> I'm one of the millions of people each week who watches Monday Night Football. I'm going to cheat by staring at the hand signals as well.
> 
> They're fucking hand signals. It's not like the guy was filming the playbook, bugging conversations or actually doing anything that everyone else in the stadium couldn't do. He was looking at the coordinator, and happened to have a camera.



Like I said; I would be shocked if the Pats were the only team to have done it. They just happened to haven gotten caught.........twice.


BTW: Zack Thomas of the Dolphins admitted that Miami has 'cheated' as well.


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## Drew (Sep 13, 2007)

garcia3441 said:


> Like I said; I would be shocked if the Pats were the only team to have done it. They just happened to haven gotten caught.........twice.



...which is something we should be embarrassed about. fuck, we don't even cheat well.  


Wait a second... Should we be proud of that? I'm thinking maybe... We cheat less well than the entire rest of the league. Go pats!


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## Rick (Sep 13, 2007)

Now there's something to be proud of.


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## Drew (Sep 13, 2007)

JJ Rodriguez said:


> Comment about football and how it's fans get really defensive about it.



Retort about Canada only wishing they had a football team, so pretending to look down on football fans instead to save face.


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## Rick (Sep 13, 2007)

I like the CFL. 

Go Alouettes!!!


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## Beta (Sep 13, 2007)

garcia3441 said:


> Like I said; I would be shocked if the Pats were the only team to have done it. They just happened to haven gotten caught.........twice.
> 
> 
> BTW: Zack Thomas of the Dolphins admitted that Miami has 'cheated' as well.



I read somewhere that Marty Schottenheimer used to do basically the same thing, without videotaping, when he was coaching in Cleveland. That was roughly 20 years ago, wasn't it?


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## Chris (Sep 13, 2007)

Dude, finally the Patriots are getting off the good-guy, model-franchise bandwagon and turning into lyin', cheatin', Randy Moss draftin' winning machines. 

I like it.


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## Rick (Sep 13, 2007)

Chris said:


> Dude, finally the Patriots are getting off the good-guy, model-franchise bandwagon and turning into lyin', cheatin', Randy Moss draftin' winning machines.
> 
> I like it.



Nice.  

I mean, you gotta get behind your team, right?


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## garcia3441 (Sep 13, 2007)

Rick said:


> I like the CFL.
> 
> Go Alouettes!!!



I was a Renegades fan..........until they went under.


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## YYZ2112 (Sep 13, 2007)

Chris said:


> I hate you.



 At least Arod Doesn't cheat....


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## JJ Rodriguez (Sep 13, 2007)

Drew said:


> Retort about Canada only wishing they had a football team, so pretending to look down on football fans instead to save face.










This is all the retort I need anime face.


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## Chris (Sep 13, 2007)

YYZ2112 said:


> At least Arod Doesn't cheat....



Yelling "I got it!" behind the third baseman, and trying to slap the ball out of the first baseman's glove in the playoffs isn't cheating?


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## Rick (Sep 13, 2007)

Chris said:


> Yelling "I got it!" behind the third baseman, and trying to slap the ball out of the first baseman's glove in the playoffs isn't cheating?



More of one of those unwritten rules, I guess. 

I'm a Yankee hater, by the way.


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## Jason (Sep 13, 2007)

Steve said:


> How did he get past the screening process?!?!? Sheesh, we need to be careful, next thing you know a Yankee fan will join the forum.



Too late 

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/members/yyz2112.html

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/members/metalmike.html


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## Jason (Sep 13, 2007)

YYZ2112 said:


> How about them Yankees



SEE!!!!!!


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## YYZ2112 (Sep 13, 2007)

Chris said:


> Yelling "I got it!" behind the third baseman, and trying to slap the ball out of the first baseman's glove in the playoffs isn't cheating?



That was a joke  

I'm not an Arod fan even with his 52 HR's and 140 RBI.


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## Jason (Sep 13, 2007)

YYZ2112 said:


> At least Arod Doesn't cheat....



 thats like saying AROD and jeter don't suck each other off.. It's so obvious they do..  wait..what?


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## Steve (Sep 13, 2007)

_"If you ain't spying, you ain't trying."_
~ Vince Lombardi (1967)


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## YYZ2112 (Sep 13, 2007)

:


Rick said:


> I'm a Yankee hater, by the way.




GREAT! Like we need another Yankee hater here


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## Jason (Sep 13, 2007)

YYZ2112 said:


> :
> 
> 
> GREAT! Like we need another Yankee hater here



Like we need more yankee fans?


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## YYZ2112 (Sep 13, 2007)

Jason said:


> Like we need more yankee fans?



Touche


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## Chris (Sep 13, 2007)

YYZ2112 said:


> That was a joke
> 
> I'm not an Arod fan even with his 52 HR's and 140 RBI.



I will  him when he comes to Boston next season.  It'll have my ARod shirt and Randy Moss hat on.


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## Jason (Sep 13, 2007)

Chris said:


> I will  him when he comes to Boston next season.  It'll have my ARod shirt and Randy Moss hat on.


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## Chris (Sep 13, 2007)

They'll look awesome when I hop on to the the big ol' bandwagon like I do every year.


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## YYZ2112 (Sep 13, 2007)

Chris said:


> I will  him when he comes to Boston next season.  It'll have my ARod shirt and Randy Moss hat on.



You won't love Arod in the post season.


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## Drew (Sep 13, 2007)

I won't love him anyway. The post-season slap attempts ruined him for me, though to be faiir the purple lips are kind of freaky.


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## ohio_eric (Sep 13, 2007)

Can't we just say what needs to said here? That the Patriots have bought the team that should win a Super Bowl. This of course means people in San Diego or Indianapolis can start making plans to go to the Super Bowl.


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## zimbloth (Sep 13, 2007)

It's going to be great when the Pats roll over the league _again _this season, and all the whiners out there like Hines Ward and Donovan McNabb who are suggesting their playoff defeats are now in question will have to find new excuses.

Just about every reputable analyst with a clue out there is saying this is the most overrated, overblown story ever. Not sure if you've seen Sean Salisbury's thoughts, but he nailed it on the head. EVERY TEAM DOES THIS. You don't need to video tape teams to see their signs. THE GAMES ARE ON LIVE TV. Anyone can analyze national tv broadcasts and try to deduce opponents signals/patterns. Everyone knows everyone else's plays. And if it's getting so predictable, change your fucking signals or communicate signals via headset like offenses do. 

Again, EVERY team does this. The *only *reason this whole 'scandal' happened was because Eric Mangini and Bill Billicheck HATE each other and he wanted to stick it to his old boss. Biggest. Non. Story. Ever.

PS: As for A-Rod, as a sox fan I'd love to have him on my team. He may be a putz, but damn he's good. That said I wouldn't mind keeping Mike Lowell too, he rules


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## garcia3441 (Sep 13, 2007)

The fallout: From ESPN.com



> The NFL slapped Bill Belichick with a maximum fine of $500,000 Thursday night; fined the Pats $250,000 and will take away their 2008 first-round draft choice if they reach the playoffs; or second- and third-round picks if they do not qualify for the playoffs.


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## Steve (Sep 13, 2007)

garcia3441 said:


> The fallout: From ESPN.com





> The NFL slapped Bill Belichick with a maximum fine of $500,000 Thursday night; fined the Pats $250,000 and will take away their 2008 first-round draft choice if they reach the playoffs; or second- and third-round picks if they do not qualify for the playoffs.




They don't need that 32 overall pick anyway!


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## Drew (Sep 14, 2007)

zimbloth said:


> Just about every reputable analyst with a clue out there is saying this is the most overrated, overblown story ever. Not sure if you've seen Sean Salisbury's thoughts, but he nailed it on the head. EVERY TEAM DOES THIS. You don't need to video tape teams to see their signs. THE GAMES ARE ON LIVE TV. Anyone can analyze national tv broadcasts and try to deduce opponents signals/patterns. Everyone knows everyone else's plays. And if it's getting so predictable, change your fucking signals or communicate signals via headset like offenses do.




Close. They're on live TV, but live TV is on a 5-second lag, due to a certain famous live-TV suicide. 5 seconds in a foootball play can make a huge difference. 

"Well, I wish I could have met you..."


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## MetalMike (Sep 14, 2007)

Jason said:


> Too late
> 
> http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/members/yyz2112.html
> 
> http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/members/metalmike.html



 

[action=MetalMike]looks over at his Joba Chamberlain jersey with pride and contemplates wearing a "Boston Sucks" shirt to the next Yankee game he attends before remembering that they've been banned from Yankee Stadium for a few seasons now because Yankee fans obviously have class.  [/action]


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## Chris (Sep 14, 2007)

zimbloth said:


> It's going to be great when the Pats roll over the league _again _this season, and all the whiners out there like Hines Ward and Donovan McNabb who are suggesting their playoff defeats are now in question will have to find new excuses.
> 
> Just about every reputable analyst with a clue out there is saying this is the most overrated, overblown story ever. Not sure if you've seen Sean Salisbury's thoughts, but he nailed it on the head. *EVERY TEAM DOES THIS*. You don't need to video tape teams to see their signs. *THE GAMES ARE ON LIVE TV*. Anyone can analyze national tv broadcasts and try to deduce opponents signals/patterns. Everyone knows everyone else's plays. And if it's getting so predictable, change your fucking signals or communicate signals via headset like offenses do.
> 
> ...



I just want to emphasize the important parts of Nick's post.  In case like, the national media is reading this site.


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## Chris (Sep 14, 2007)

Drew said:


> Close. They're on live TV, but live TV is on a 5-second lag, due to a certain famous live-TV suicide. 5 seconds in a foootball play can make a huge difference.
> 
> "Well, I wish I could have met you..."



I hate to disagree sir, but I completely disagree. 

There is no difference between me standing in the seats with a camcorder filming the DC and what the Patriots did. 

5 seconds to read the signs, decipher them, radio them to the coach, have the coach determine an offense based on that defense, relay it to his OC and QB and have the team execute said play with the leet inf0z gained in 5 seconds?

It just doesn't work like that.


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## Steve (Sep 14, 2007)

Drew said:


> "Well, I wish I could have met you..."




"...but now it's a little late."


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## Chris (Sep 14, 2007)

Wait, that's what that song's about?


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## Steve (Sep 14, 2007)

Chris said:


> Wait, that's what that song's about?



"That's why I say....."Hey Man...Nice Shot""

Budd Dwyer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Rick (Sep 14, 2007)

Well, these guys got caught cheating too. 

FIA fine McLaren $100 million and take points away - Boston.com


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## Jason (Sep 14, 2007)

MetalMike said:


> [action=MetalMike]looks over at his Joba Chamberlain jersey with pride and contemplates wearing a "Boston Sucks" shirt to the next Yankee game he attends before remembering that they've been banned from Yankee Stadium for a few seasons now because Yankee fans obviously have class.  [/action]



Tonight biotch


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