# 27" Scale Necks



## dczx (Aug 6, 2012)

Hello,

I'm thinking about getting a Douglas Hadron. I really like the blue one but the green one has the 27" scale neck. I mainly play shred guitar soloing and not a lot of chugging chords.

I'm a little confused about the advantages. I have a Jackson Kelly that is beyond standard scale (I don't know what it is) and I like it and find it pretty easy to play and a Gibson SG. I like both of them, but I think I prefer the Jackson fretboard.

However, is the 27" not good for standard tuning? I don't really plan on doing any drop tuning. Is a 27" on a 7 string considered good for soloing or more difficult?

thanks for any feedback you might have


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## sol niger 333 (Aug 6, 2012)

Google. Also 27" for standard tuning is silly. You'd need to run the lightest strings EVER otherwise the tension will not allow for much expression at all except aggressive powerful chugging and a heavy right hand


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## sol niger 333 (Aug 6, 2012)

I have a 27" in drop b flat and it plays like a standard pitch 24.75" guitar with 11=52


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## Qweklain (Aug 7, 2012)

sol niger 333 said:


> Google. Also 27" for standard tuning is silly. You'd need to run the lightest strings EVER otherwise the tension will not allow for much expression at all except aggressive powerful chugging and a heavy right hand


That statement is foolish, sorry to say. Each inch only adds roughly one pound to each string give or take when compared to a 25.5" scale. So to make things simple, a 27" will have about 1.5 pounds extra on each string compared to a 25.5".

The biggest advantage is the intonation accuracy when going to lower tunings. The little of extra tension helps in that department as well.


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## Ryan-ZenGtr- (Aug 7, 2012)

@Qweklaln

I disagree with your opinion that the difference is insignificant and to call someone foolish is just bad manners. How rare is it to talk with other 7 string baritone guitarists and you want to insult them? 

I agree with Sol Niger 333, the longer the scale length the tighter the strings, making standard tuning with man sized string gauges (60 - 12) expressionless and tiring to play.

To get my baritone comfortable I had to go 9-52 (7 string tuned B-B standard) otherwise it just wasn't happening, too much string tension. 

@*dczx*
Experimentation will be required with string gauges and manufacturers to get a baritone to suit your purposes. If you are not downtuning at all, perhaps consider a standard scale guitar. Make sure to try a baritone in person before ordering online or otherwise.


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## Jessy (Aug 7, 2012)

sol niger 333 said:


> Google. Also 27" for standard tuning is silly. You'd need to run the lightest strings EVER otherwise the tension will not allow for much expression at all except aggressive powerful chugging and a heavy right hand


And why is that a problem? The use of lighter strings, at the same pitch+tension, equates to more in-tune harmonics. Longer scales are also more comfortable in the highest register, because you're not squishing all of your meats together. The highest six strings of my next guitar will be 27 to >29", and that's even tuning up a whole step! I don't have any desire for a standard-tuned six-string, but if I did, I'd get a 30" one!


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## XeoFLCL (Aug 7, 2012)

I hate to get involved in a heated topic, but I really think people are exaggerating how much going from 25.5 to 27 affects the tension. Originally I got pretty damn light strings planning to pull off A and/or Ab with .54 to .09, but it was WAAAY too light (Previously I'd use a .60 to .10 set for Ab to give an idea of my personal feel, so I tend to aim as light as I can to keep a bit of that definition and percussive tone), and I found myself knocking every string out of tune with picking and left hand pressure, even when picking very lightly. Infact, I ended up tuning up to Bb and it's still way too light for my tastes, and I even have alot of wrist issues. I wouldn't worry too much about tension, but what you SHOULD be worrying about is how it will affect your tone. For cleans, it definitely sounds better but for leads and anything high gain on the bridge pickup, your high strings are going to sound noticeably more shrill and brittle in many cases, so keep that in mind if you're a shred guy that you might need to tweak around things if you go with a 27", or you might just want to go with the 25.5" hadron if you're okay with losing the extra low string definition.

Oh, and to add, I HAVE owned 2 baritones previous to this, an ibanez 27" AX and an Agile 30" so by getting a 27" I didn't devulge into it not knowing what to expect in feel.. However the ibanez I exclusively used for much lower tunings (strung it with .70 to something, (been like two years so hell if I can remember) and never tried anything else, tuned to F# if I recall correctly?) and the agile was an octave down from standard with the lowest being .70 aswell, so they really weren't used in what would be standard application and I couldn't really compare them in a sense to a 27" I'd use in what would be the same tuning I used on 25.5"s

All in all, it's not going to affect your playing that much, rather than your tone. If you're a rhythm guy or prefer to take advantage of big open chords with high gain while keeping clarity, go with the 27". If you're more of a shreddy kind of guy and don't plan on really digging in, go with the 25.5". Personally though, if you never plan on going below B and have no way to try a baritone I'd just recommend a 25.5" as I feel that scale is perfect for B anyways


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## Jessy (Aug 7, 2012)

XeoFLCL said:


> For cleans, it definitely sounds better but for leads and anything high gain on the bridge pickup, your high strings are going to sound noticeably more shrill and brittle in many cases


One man's "shrill and brittle" is another man's "I pick over the fretboard, and with my fingers, so I'll take all the harmonics I can!"


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## dczx (Aug 7, 2012)

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I think I might skip out on the 27 this round.


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## XeoFLCL (Aug 7, 2012)

Jessy said:


> One man's "shrill and brittle" is another man's "I pick over the fretboard, and with my fingers, so I'll take all the harmonics I can!"



That is one way to put it, and that is true you get much better harmonic response with baritones and I definitely agree that leads on baritones with proper technique can be some of the most beautiful sounding things, but standard shred technique isn't going to sound anywhere near as good obviously 

In the end it's really up for debate and personal preference and the best you can do is really just try it for yourself, but remember, it's easier to EQ out something that's there than EQ in something that isn't, which is personally why I ended up getting a 27".. though I was very much planning to downtune 1 1/2 steps and had enough experience beforehand to really judge whether it'd work out or not  Just to add, I really don't think it's that big of a deal at B.

If you get a Hadron though.. Just bewarned you're going to need to change those pickups, they're really on a whole new level of terrible  However, I've owned 2 of the 6 string hadrons (when they were called WRL590s) and one of the 7 string baritone hadrons, and I can promise you, the quality control on them is superb and they're some of the tightest sounding guitars you can get for under 500 and you will be very happy with it no matter which one you pick.  If you want pictures of them, just ask and I'll toss a bunch up here, I'm always proud to show them off .


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## Kali Yuga (Aug 7, 2012)

I play 27" guitars tuned in standard. I'm actually in the process of selling most of my guitars and downsizing to a handful of baritone lengths. 27" is really not a huge change from 25.5". It's noticeable, but the tension is still comfortable and really only drop maybe one size in strings, for instance if you play on 10s, try 9s for 27". IMO, it feels tighter, the fret spacing is more comfortable, and thinner strings seem to have more snap. It simply works for me.


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## jwade (Aug 8, 2012)

Slightly longer than 27" but stillI have my Gibson LP baritone (28" scale) set up with a .060 through to .013 and my original intent of being tuned to B-B didn't pan out. Not enough tension at all. Kept going way out of tune with even a few small bends. I've got it tuned up to C right now to have it sit overnight to see if that holds a bit better, but I'm starting to regret taking off the .070-.017 set (for G-G) I normally use. 
I don't think you would have much trouble tuning to standard so long as you bumped your string gauge up a little bit.


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## Winspear (Aug 8, 2012)

XeoFLCL said:


> I hate to get involved in a heated topic, but I really think people are exaggerating how much going from 25.5 to 27 affects the tension.



+1 +1 +1 !!!

It's 'one fret' lower in terms of fret spacing. That also means one semitone higher in terms of tension.
The same set of strings will feel like F standard rather than E standard. Hardly a huge difference.
And as it happens, that can be countered almost exactly by moving down from 10's to 9's, 11's to 10's and so on.
To the guy who said 27" for standard tuning is silly - that's exactly the same as saying it's silly to tune up to F on a 25.5". Hardly any difference whatsoever.


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## Winspear (Aug 8, 2012)

And it almost completely went over my head that we are talking about 7 strings here! 
In my opinion 25.5" isn't ideal at all when tuning down to B or further. 27" is definitely beneficial for a 7 string even in standard tuning, in terms of clarity in the low end. Any excess brightness in the high end is easily countered by turning down the tone knob.


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## Felvin (Aug 8, 2012)

It's personal preference. To me, 9-56 feels great for standard tuning on 25.5 and horribly stiff on 26.5. It's true that the difference may only be 1.5 to 2 pounds, but you definitly feel it.


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## Mr. Big Noodles (Aug 8, 2012)

All I have to say is: 10's are too heavy, 9's are too light.


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## Kali Yuga (Aug 8, 2012)

Who makes 27" 7-strings, besides Agile anyway?


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## Ryan-ZenGtr- (Aug 10, 2012)

@EtherealEntity

When I first got my baritone (which came in a pretty sad state of disrepair) I tried my regular 7 string set of 60-10 designating it a heavy rhythm guitar (also good for cleans). At 27" I found it tiring to play, with the strings too tight for expressive vibrato and bends over a tone.

As a result, it spent a long time not being played. When maintenance time came round again (I have a few guitars so I normally set a day aside and do as many services and restrings as possible) I changed to a lighter lead guitar set (52-9) and the guitar became much more versatile and enjoyable to play.

Having put a lot of time and money (purchase price inc custom case, installed Lundgren M7 and DiMarzio 7 PAF which was difficult due to pickup route size) into my baritone, it was a real shame to hate the way it played because of the string tension.

Experimentation with string gauges and moving to a lighter set made it a useful instrument for me. My standard scale guitars are much better for lead, due to less string tension with a light set. I did a test session in G standard tuning and the guitar sounding like it should (elephants deprecating), but I'm not really into subsonic tunings. B is low enough for me, as lower requires specialist concerns and without subwoofer playback, disappears beyond the bass threshold of most consumer's audio equipment (crap speakers).

Still, looks really cool, though. 

I'm talking about the guitar in my Avatar, BTW.


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## straightshreddd (Aug 10, 2012)

I used to have a 27" scale guitar and used a set of 10-59's and tuned a half step down and it gave me a relatively slinky feel. I'm pretty sure you can tune to standard with a 10 set and get normal tension. 

However, IMO, anything above a 10 set with standard tuning will be pushing it. My current guitar is 26 and 3/16" with 11-58's and tune to drop A(standard tuning, dropped A) and the tension is rather tight. Comfortable but tight. Hope this provides some help, OP.


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## straightshreddd (Aug 10, 2012)

Kali Yuga said:


> Who makes 27" 7-strings, besides Agile anyway?


 

If you're talking about production models, there's few out there.

ESP and LTD Stephen Carpenter models, ET has a few in-stocks that have 27", old Ibanez XL's, etc. A good ol' fashion search will help you more.


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## Larrikin666 (Aug 10, 2012)

Kali Yuga said:


> Who makes 27" 7-strings, besides Agile anyway?



ESP/LTD, a few USA custom Jacksons, and older Ibanez XLs. Certainly not a ton of current production guitars out there like that these days.


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## otisct20 (Aug 10, 2012)

Not to mention all of the people who get conversion necks made.


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## sol niger 333 (Aug 10, 2012)

Kali Yuga said:


> Who makes 27" 7-strings, besides Agile anyway?



Fender Jaguar, Fender Tele barrys are both 27". I have both. Drop B tuning with 11-52 feels like a 24.75 gat in drop D. PERFECT tension. Expressive but still snappy. Thanks for the negative rep by the way haha. Ya try and help someone


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## Ryan-ZenGtr- (Aug 11, 2012)

@Sol Niger 333

Who the  is Jim Soloway?



^Note the absence of vibrato. 


The stability of high tension is of genuine benefit to his chordal style, where, consistency, intonation and accuracy of pitch are mandatory.
As has been said by everyone, except Qweklain, experimentation with various string gauges is the only way to make a baritone work for *you*.

@Qweklain

Thanks for recommending Jim Soloway. Delicate and relaxing tones!


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## BabUShka (Aug 11, 2012)

My Hellraiser C7 has 26.5" scale. I tune it to standard B tuning with 11-52 + 62 gauge, and its perfect. Its a little harder to bend, but compared to my 25.5" ATX C1, the tension is pretty much the same in standard tuning. Its when I tune it down, then the longer scale comes to an advantage. But my thoughts is that 26.5" is very normally playable in standard tunings. I cant imagine that 27" is any worse, but I wont say for sure since I haven't tried 27".


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## ThrustTony (Aug 12, 2012)

I had a 27" Ibanez tuned AEADGBE and it sounded great and played great!

The trem took some of the tension away when bending strings so maybe that made some difference to how it played so maybe a fixed brigde would feel tighter.

It shook balls though and would destroy small towns when palm muted! Really really tight sound!


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## Stealthdjentstic (Aug 12, 2012)

I hate 27" scale lengths...and this is coming from someone who pretty much grew up on 26.5.


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## Azure (Aug 14, 2012)

9's on a 26.5 scale length are great. I found 10's on a 25.5 to be awkward but great on a les paul with a 24.75 scale length. All in all, if you want to shred in standard, you can just lighten the gauges and everything should be fine. Longer scale lengths are the way of the future.


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## 7stringDemon (Aug 14, 2012)

Anyone who says that you can't tune a 27" scale guitar to standard is stupid 

You can tune any guitar to anything with the right strings. If I REALLY wanted to, I could put a 18" scale in Drop A. And I could but a 30" scale into E standard.


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