# Do headless guitars look wrong on stage?



## bzhan1 (Jun 18, 2016)

They're light, unique, really comfy too, but I feel like they just don't look right on stage in a rock/metal setting. They're so little and maybe a bit girly looking, can't imagine head banging with them.

No offense to headless owners, I'll probably get one myself for bedroom jamming.

Anyone with experience gigging with them?


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## Alex Kenivel (Jun 18, 2016)

Different strokes, man. I love me a good headstock.


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## Hollowway (Jun 18, 2016)

I think the opposite. To me, metal is about being different. If I wanted to be like everyone else I'd play country crossover and have a strat. To me, nothing is more metal that hearing incredible music and seeing it come from something and someone that challenges your prejudices and preconceived notions.


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## Humbuck (Jun 18, 2016)

It has nothing to do with anything musically but for me...absolutely yes.

One of the cooler "side" aspects of electric guitars as instruments is that they are highly aesthetically pleasing. Cool looking...to the user and the spectator. To me, headless guitars and some of their associated body shapes are not.

Not rocking a Steinberger, ever.

IMHO of course.


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## marcwormjim (Jun 18, 2016)

It's been thirty years, folks. Screw the absence of vestigial headstocks - If you're going to insist on being embarrassed for something onstage, be embarrassed about not being very good.


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## Science_Penguin (Jun 18, 2016)

Headless isn't out of place as a rule.

For my money, I think the Kiesel Vader, and Steinberger's M, ZT, and Demon models are just fine. They're headless, but they still have relatively standard body shapes, and thus they gain a sleek and modern aesthetic while still remaining unmistakably identifiable as guitars.

On the other hand, Steinberger's standard models look like strange abominations of minimalism gone too far, or worse, like toys. Even Eddie Van Halen couldn't make those look right... Not to my eyes, anyway.

Really, though, as long as you, the player, have confidence and presence while holding the instrument, it shouldn't matter weather you've got a headstock or not.

Check out some footage from Skinny Puppy's 'Greater Wrong of the Right' tour. The guitarist is playing a doubleneck V guitar/bass combo, no headstocks and apparently even fewer f..ks given by the way he's rocking out. 
Yeah, sure, Skinny Puppy's not Metal, but nonetheless, they're hardcore in their own way.


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## Hollowway (Jun 18, 2016)

Skinny Puppy may not play metal, but there is nothing more metal than Skinny Puppy. I've been a fan of theirs since I can remember (Assimilate era).

On topic, how about the Claas guitars? Those are pretty aggressive looking, no? I guess if you're going to lump ergo in with headless, then yeah, it's not the most classically metal looking axe around. I mean, I wouldn't show up to a Metallica tryout with a Klein, but simply lopping the head off a guitar doesn't really suck the metalness out of it, looks wise. I'd rock a Toone, Spalt, Claas, etc. based on looks, though.

(Saving whoever the googling, here's a klein, Toone, Spalt, and Claas, in that order):






















EDIT: Lulz at the "Post quick reply" button when we post something in a thread. Like we, as a group, post "quick" replies. These rants/picture links/stories take a long ass time to write! The button should say, "Post long ass reply that will be read by less than 20 people, which you chose to do over working, spending time with your family, or actually playing your damn guitar. ....ing loser! But sure, post away on an obscure forum!!"


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## Durero (Jun 18, 2016)

bzhan1 said:


> They're light, unique, really comfy too, but I feel like they just don't look right on stage in a rock/metal setting. They're so little and maybe a bit girly looking, can't imagine head banging with them.
> 
> No offense to headless owners, I'll probably get one myself for bedroom jamming.
> 
> Anyone with experience gigging with them?



"Do headless guitars look wrong on stage?" 
Why would anyone else's like or dislike of headless guitars be of any concern to you at all?

Presenting yourself on stage to perform music in public requires that you have enough self confidence to make trivial little decisions like what instrument you play, what gear you use, what clothes you wear, etc. 

It also requires enough confidence to make much more important decisions such as what music you've chosen to play, how well you've chosen to prepare that music, how respectfully and professionally you speak and behave towards the audience, sound people, venue staff, and other bands.

Performing in public is not easy and I can promise you that no one has done so without having to face loads of their own insecurities, both big and small. You may find that some players hide behind a mask of bravado, some numb themselves with intoxicants, but for me the only thing that actually works is to cultivate focus and concentration on the music itself. This implies choosing music that is challenging enough to require strong focus and concentration.


"Anyone with experience gigging with them?"
Yes. I've played headless guitars in metal bands on stage, headbanging, but that's my choice and no one else has any say over what guitar I choose to play. 

I encourage you to choose the tool of your choice to express your art with, and focus on that expression, not the tool.


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## bzhan1 (Jun 18, 2016)

Durero said:


> "Do headless guitars look wrong on stage?"
> Why would anyone else's like or dislike of headless guitars be of any concern to you at all?
> 
> Presenting yourself on stage to perform music in public requires that you have enough self confidence to make trivial little decisions like what instrument you play, what gear you use, what clothes you wear, etc.
> ...



lol how did this get so personal... I play plenty of shows and have no problems playing, I'm just gauging people's opinions here.

Obvious when there's a ton of people watching one should care about how they look on stage. It's not a confidence issue. You think pros like Vai don't spend hours fixing their outfits and doing their hair before a show? What about Ronaldo? Surely the richest and most famous athlete in the world doesn't try to look good while playing because he's insecure.


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## Hollowway (Jun 19, 2016)

I seriously doubt Vai spends hours fixing his outfit and doing his hair before a show.  That's ridiculous. I would say that Vai probably looks exactly the way he would like to look, and doesn't give a rat's ass about whether other people think he looks good. He has his own style, and it's clear it's his thing, and he's not dressing that way because it's the power metal / 80's shred, etc. thing to do. I don't know who you listen to, but I assure you that the bands I listen to write music and dress (and do their hair, lol) the way they think is cool, not what they think audiences think is cool. If that weren't the case, they would be faaaar more famous and better known than they are. I find it hard to believe that anyone plays metal with the delusion that what the play and how they look is designed to please any significant portion of the population. You've been watching too much Kardashians, man.


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## Durero (Jun 19, 2016)

Well I guess my response shows how strongly I interpret your question as a personal choice, because I've already made that choice for myself and it never occurred to me to ask for anyone else's opinion.


But your example of Vai is excellent and really helps me understand why stage appearance can matter a lot to some players and be something they put thought and energy into. Vai has gone so far as to use elaborate laser-clad costumes in his show with extremely unconventional and unique guitars which correspond with his album cover art. 

The point I'm trying to make is that I like to assume someone like Vai is taking those decisions for himself and not seeking anyone else's input for the artistic aspects of his show. A personal choice.

You can disagree with my assumption and instead assume that he is concerned with other peoples opinions of his stage appearance and actively seeks their input. A more social, conformal style of thinking. You could be right, I don't know the guy. 

That's just a different way of thinking than I'm used to.


So if it's examples of headless guitars used in metal and rock that you need here's a few more: Death, Cynic, Scale the Summit, Genesis.


Edit: sniped by Holloway!
I guess it's clear that Holloway and I both prefer bands where stage appearance is pretty low on the priority list. Probably says a lot about why I've never had the slightest interest in seeing or hearing bands like KISS. 

Anyhow each their own.

Play a headless on stage, or don't. I sincerely wish you well either way.


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## Durero (Jun 19, 2016)




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## Science_Penguin (Jun 19, 2016)

See, I come from the camp opposite you two- I highly value musicians who know how to take to the stage with a certain degree of visual style (so long as they use it as a nice enhancement for their shows rather than a gimmick to hide mediocre music... hence why _I_ don't have the slightest interest in KISS) Frankly- and this could be boredom with my own local music scene- but I'm kind of tired of every band coming out on stage wearing their street clothes.

But that's exactly why I wouldn't mind playing a headless on stage. They've got a striking appearance on top of their functionality and comfort level. Really, headless is kind of a win-win on both sides: If you don't care how you look, then you're just playing whatever's comfortable, and if you do care how you look, well, there's one way to stand out- and, like I said, there's plenty of headless styles to choose from so you can get whatever's optimal for the style you're going for.



Hollowway said:


> Skinny Puppy may not play metal, but there is nothing more metal than Skinny Puppy. I've been a fan of theirs since I can remember (Assimilate era).



Discovered them backtracking through the history of Industrial music myself. First album was Weapon... If you're familiar with their modern sound, you can imagine how confused I was upon listening to Too Dark Park.


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## Hollowway (Jun 19, 2016)

Yeah, Penguin, I'm the same as you, in that I want to provide a good stage show, and specifically care about how we look on stage live. It's just that I am not doing it to impress the audience. It seems like a subtle difference, but dressing the way I like, and hoping the audience thinks it's cool, is vastly difference from trying to figure out what he audience likes, and dressing that way. Take Ghost, for instance. I love those guys, and I think their costumes are super cool. And I think they probably like that people think they're cool. But, based on the interviews I've read about them, they came up with the concept because they thought it was a cool idea (nameless, faceless), and went with that. They didn't worry about whether people would think they were cool or metal enough or anything like that. Same with Steve Vai. He's got a very unique and identifiable style. But I doubt he's dressing that way because he's focus grouped fans about what they think would be cool for him. It's the difference between nsync, and other bands manufactured specifically to appeal to a group of people, and bands who have their own thing going, and happen to appeal to others. It would be like knowing a certain girl likes guys who wear dress shirts, bow ties, and jeans, and wearing that in order to impress her, as opposed to a guy who happens to like wearing a dress shirt, bow tie, and jeans, and just happens to wear that when he goes out. The second guy is authentic, the first guy is inauthentic, and is only trying to impress the girl. (Which I'm guilty of doing faaaar too many times! ) 

Anyway, it seems like a subtle difference, what I (and you, and durero) are saying, vs what the OP is saying. But it's pretty fundamental to me. I want to put on a good show for an audience, but what that means is that I will do what I think is cool, and hope they like it. As opposed to figure out what they think is cool, and do that, irrespective of whether I personally like it. 

No shade on OP, but I say do what is a reflection of you, because people respond much more to authenticity than pandering.


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## Fretless (Jun 19, 2016)

I think they look funky, and personally they're not for me. I personally love headstock designs (that is seriously the only reason I decided to go with a KM8 over the VM8 from Kiesel that I just ordered). 

However, some people rock them and make em look really cool. Just not me, since I play keys.


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## Science_Penguin (Jun 19, 2016)

Fretless said:


> I think they look funky, and personally they're not for me. I personally love headstock designs (that is seriously the only reason I decided to go with a KM8 over the VM8 from Kiesel that I just ordered).
> 
> However, some people rock them and make em look really cool. Just not me, since I play keys.



Well, on a functionality level, the more compact design of a headless would make it easier for you to move around your keyboard setup... I assume you play both on stage.

But, if you like headstocks, yeah, probably not your thing.

Dammit, I need to get off this thread, I'm starting to GAS for a headless... I've got three ebay tabs of GM bodies open...


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## Fretless (Jun 19, 2016)

Science_Penguin said:


> Well, on a functionality level, the more compact design of a headless would make it easier for you to move around your keyboard setup... I assume you play both on stage.
> 
> But, if you like headstocks, yeah, probably not your thing.
> 
> Dammit, I need to get off this thread, I'm starting to GAS for a headless... I've got three ebay tabs of GM bodies open...



I only play keys live, I guess you can say they're all headless haha, but yeah, I just like headstocks.

On a side note I plan on possibly playing guitar live when I condense my keyboard rig live down from 3 keyboards to one keyboard.


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## StevenC (Jun 19, 2016)

A light, mobile guitar just to play in your bedroom seems kind of like missing the point to me. The impractical, clumsy guitar I have to be careful with seems the more obvious guitar to keep at home.


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## Alex Kenivel (Jun 19, 2016)

My next guitar will be my first headless:




And I'm not even joking


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## Señor Voorhees (Jun 19, 2016)

Dude from slipknot rocks a headless bass on occasion and it looks sick as f_u_ck.


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## Bloody_Inferno (Jun 20, 2016)

When I was a kid and saw Bill & Ted being rewarded with Steinberger paddles, I thought those guitars were the coolest things ever. 

Today... I don't care what anyone thinks or says, I still want a Steinberger paddle.


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## Rachmaninoff (Jun 20, 2016)

bzhan1 said:


> Do headless guitars look wrong on stage?



As long as they balance right, I see no problem. The only heastocks I don't like are the tiny Music Man ones, which look like a crippled hand or something like that.


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## feraledge (Jun 20, 2016)

None more metal.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jun 20, 2016)

Given what you said in a recent thread about Schecter, I'm starting to think you worry way too much about image, rather than the substance.


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## Science_Penguin (Jun 20, 2016)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Given what you said in a recent thread about Schecter, I'm starting to think you worry way too much about image, rather than the substance.



Ouch... Well, that explains why the OP's fallen silent...

Still, I guess that's one more vote in favour of headstocks. If you care that much about a logo, you gotta have somewhere to put it, right?



Bloody_Inferno said:


> When I was a kid and saw Bill & Ted being rewarded with Steinberger paddles, I thought those guitars were the coolest things ever.
> 
> Today... I don't care what anyone thinks or says, I still want a Steinberger paddle.



To be fair, those were GP's, and, in my opinion, they're the coolest looking of the paddle guitars. Almost like a Micro-Flying V. If I HAD to pick from the paddles, that's the one I'd get.

If only for the pickguard, really. When I see a top-routed guitar, I see potential for experimentation. Grab myself a blank sheet, maybe something in a nice chrome mirror, cut out the basic shape with the original as a template, and then route it for a 3 single coil configuration. OOH! Or P90's! That'd be sweet...


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## GuitarBizarre (Jun 20, 2016)

Science_Penguin said:


> Ouch... Well, that explains why the OP's fallen silent...
> 
> Still, I guess that's one more vote in favour of headstocks. If you care that much about a logo, you gotta have somewhere to put it, right?
> 
> ...



See, I actually think these look amazing, but then, I'm the kind of guy where the speclist being as incredible as it is for the money these go for, that it might have affected my view of the aesthetics.

https://cdn.ustatik.com/article/gear/1/3471_1_ver1465868074.jpg


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## Science_Penguin (Jun 20, 2016)

GuitarBizarre said:


> See, I actually think these look amazing, but then, I'm the kind of guy where the speclist being as incredible as it is for the money these go for, that it might have affected my view of the aesthetics.
> 
> https://cdn.ustatik.com/article/gear/1/3471_1_ver1465868074.jpg



That's fair. On a spec level, those guitars are real nice, and I've always liked that shade of blue on maple tops. I'm just... REALLY not a big fan of the square shape. 
Also, I use straplocks pretty much across the board on all my instruments, and I don't see how I could make those work with that upper strap... thing...


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## eugeneelgr (Aug 11, 2016)

It's funny, all this resurgence in headless guitars in recent years was started by Strandberg, yet no mention of it in this thread at all.

To the dude that mentioned Kiesel Vader and not strandberg, you should be ashamed of yourself.

JKJK I personally think headless guitars look wierd when doing a hard rock/classic rock gig, but if you're doing metal or fusion or prog, I think the look is really cool on stage.


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## Casper777 (Aug 11, 2016)

Well I think I will share my experience here...

Since I got my first Strandberg one year ago, I played several gigs with them! and I must say that there is a similar pattern for people in the public.

First, the headless guitar, it's true will always draw some attention from people and I like it! They are curious, ask about it, etc...

Then there are typically 3 types of reactions:

- The non-musician adults: the usualy like it and find it pretty and strange. A mix of surprise and something else
- Kids: (I mean little kids 10yo (yes I played a summer festival with kids haedbanging evrywhere on stage ) They LOVE the guitar, find it super funny and cool and......
- The musician: They find it ugly, don't like it... One guy even told me (completely drunk) "you should play your nice music on a nice guitar, like I don't know a Flying V... " yeah, sure...

So this leads me to the following conclusion:

1) musicians are stuck with cliché and are so used to some shapes that they actually are the most closed-minded in the public. You should play metal on a black pointy guitar, country on a telecaster and good ol' rock on a Les Paul... you see the point 
2) fresh minds (kids) that are note "polluted" by the predefined ideas are the most open minded and actually LOVE those new shapes and colors!

Then to each his own.

One thing though... Headless guitars look quite weird when played on the knees  They look more at thei place up against the chest  Like a Les Paul would look weird played Plini style 

But again... influenced by the image we have (of Slash wearing his Les Paul down so low...).

One last thing... I personnaly LOVE when I take my Boden on stage, turn in front of the crowd and look at the face of people!!!!!


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## Science_Penguin (Aug 13, 2016)

Casper777 said:


> ne thing though... Headless guitars look quite weird when played on the knees  They look more at thei place up against the chest  Like a Les Paul would look weird played Plini style



Now I'm just trying to picture a Punk rocker playing a Strandberg slung way down below the belt, and I kind of want someone to actually try it. 

It would never happen, because no one would spend that kind of money on a guitar like that to play anything less than Prog or Fusion, but, you know, that's kind of why I want to see it. Just for how wrong it would be.


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## pullingstraws (Aug 17, 2016)

Scott Hull definitely pulls it off on stage IMHO. He also isn't chest-rocking or shredding up any fusion solos either.


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## bpprox22 (Aug 17, 2016)

There are guitars that I can't stand looking at but if it sounds good, I don't really care if it has an extra chunk of wood (or lack of) on it or not... Completely subjective of course.


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## stevexc (Aug 18, 2016)

Science_Penguin said:


> Now I'm just trying to picture a Punk rocker playing a Strandberg slung way down below the belt, and I kind of want someone to actually try it.
> 
> It would never happen, because no one would spend that kind of money on a guitar like that *to play anything less than Prog or Fusion*, but, you know, that's kind of why I want to see it. Just for how wrong it would be.



>implying punk is "less than" prog or fusion 

I get what you mean, though, if you're spending that kind of money on an ergo guitar it's likely for ergonomic reasons. Although that Pig Destroyer link kinda disproves that


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## Science_Penguin (Aug 18, 2016)

I really should know better than to say "never"... Guess some people REALLY must like how Strandbergs look, regardless of the REASON they look the way they do... I dunno, do you get any of the benefits of the ergo design when you play that low?

Though, come to think of it, if you're playing on stages that cramped, a headless might be pretty useful regardless...


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## mrspacecat (Aug 18, 2016)

I would say that they look out of place if there's only one headless in the band. It depends on the guy playing it, though. I recently saw Beyond Creation and they all had headless guitars/bass (one was a strandberg), and it looked pretty awesome.


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## StevenC (Aug 19, 2016)

Science_Penguin said:


> I really should know better than to say "never"... Guess some people REALLY must like how Strandbergs look, regardless of the REASON they look the way they do... I dunno, do you get any of the benefits of the ergo design when you play that low?
> 
> Though, come to think of it, if you're playing on stages that cramped, a headless might be pretty useful regardless...



As far as the body shape of a Strandberg, there are no ergonomic qualities when standing up, aside from the obvious stuff like a belly carve and having a strap button in the right place. The Boden and Varberg shapes are designed to sit comfortably on your legs. Standing up, the guitar will be no more or less ergonomic if the strap is high or low.

The ergonomic design elements of a Strandberg that will come through when playing standing up are the light weight body and the EndurNeck. It'll save your back just as much if it's in your chest as round your knees, and provided you use it properly, the EndurNeck will do what it's supposed to.

When I came across Strandberg, the big selling point for me was that it weighed so little, because I have back problems and I can't play any of my other guitars for as long as I can the Strandberg.


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