# Paleolithic/cave-man diet?



## soliloquy (Apr 2, 2011)

anyone tried this? 
i dont really care for losing weight, and i generally dont believe in diets (i prefer working off the weight if i wanna lose...). but this diet seems interesting. plus, unlike other diets out there, this doesn't seem to cut out anything in specific other than sugars and saturated fats and other similar stuff. easy to substitute one thing for another. 

though their carbs are a bit concerning... 

further reading: Paleolithic diet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## SD83 (Apr 2, 2011)

Interesting stuff indeed, but I tend to believe in what is written in the "Plant to animal ratio" paragraph... it's not likely that the cave-man diet had more than 50% animal products in it (+the amount of flesh we eat is already rather unhealthy for our planet). In addition, if one has a look at more "primitive" cultures, it becomes obvious that if they have to, they eat whatever is available and can be digested, if the question is getting a heart attack at 45 or starving at 16, the answer is obvious. So... I believe in parts of the theory (that a lot of what the average person in the western world eats is NOT healthy), but not in all of it. And I totally believe in that this diet makes no sense if you don't adapt your lifestyle. I.e. walk a lot for example. If our ancestors lived on a diet like this, they ate these foods to be able to live a life which is very different from ours. (In fact, I've been thinking a lot about what would be species-appropriate behaviour and diet for our race. Without comming to any real conclusion yet)


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## highlordmugfug (Apr 2, 2011)

SD83 said:


> Interesting stuff indeed, but I tend to believe in what is written in the "Plant to animal ratio" paragraph... it's not likely that the cave-man diet had more than 50% animal products in it (+the amount of flesh we eat is already rather unhealthy for our planet). In addition, if one has a look at more "primitive" cultures, it becomes obvious that if they have to, they eat whatever is available and can be digested, if the question is getting a heart attack at 45 or starving at 16, the answer is obvious. So... I believe in parts of the theory (that a lot of what the average person in the western world eats is NOT healthy), but not in all of it. And I totally believe in that this diet makes no sense if you don't adapt your lifestyle. I.e. walk a lot for example. If our ancestors lived on a diet like this, they ate these foods to be able to live a life which is very different from ours. (In fact, I've been thinking a lot about what would be species-appropriate behaviour and diet for our race. Without comming to any real conclusion yet)


Good response. 

I can agree with the 'naturalization' part of the diet and avoiding artificial colors/flavors/sugars/etc, but it's not really a 'caveman' diet if people are still buying meat at grocery stores from big ass companies and whatnot. 










EDIT: Mini-rant: I'm kind of sick about hearing about all the thousands of 'diets' all the time. Everyone who isn't a fucking moron knows what they need nutritionally, and anyone who isn't a fucking moron can take the few hours it would take to find out where you can get everything you need, and everyone who isn't a fucking moron knows what's 'healthy' and what's not, and everyone who's not a fucking moron knows that they need to excercise to some degree.

Exercise, eat right, don't be a lazy fucking fuck.
Fuck.

NOTE: That's not aimed at anyone here, just at humanity/people in general. [/rant]


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## soliloquy (Apr 2, 2011)

yeah, i dont get it when people boast about a specific diet they are on and going strong so and so many days...

i just look at em and say 'enjoy the losses and cuts you've made in the last 3 days. just be warned you'll earn your loses in gaining double the weight you loss!'

i was sort of on a paleo diet without really knowing it for a bit. i cut down my carbs to only stuff my body needed, but nothing extra. boosted my protein. cut down my fat. boosted my veggies and fruits, and cut down anything unnatural. i didn't really loose much as i was working out and also on some supplements. so though i didn't loose, i did gain quiet a bit of muscle, and i started seeing cuts on my body all over. really cool stuff...


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## Mordacain (Apr 2, 2011)

SD83 said:


> Interesting stuff indeed, but I tend to believe in what is written in the "Plant to animal ratio" paragraph... it's not likely that the cave-man diet had more than 50% animal products in it (+the amount of flesh we eat is already rather unhealthy for our planet). In addition, if one has a look at more "primitive" cultures, it becomes obvious that if they have to, they eat whatever is available and can be digested, if the question is getting a heart attack at 45 or starving at 16, the answer is obvious. So... I believe in parts of the theory (that a lot of what the average person in the western world eats is NOT healthy), but not in all of it. And I totally believe in that this diet makes no sense if you don't adapt your lifestyle. I.e. walk a lot for example. If our ancestors lived on a diet like this, they ate these foods to be able to live a life which is very different from ours. (In fact, I've been thinking a lot about what would be species-appropriate behaviour and diet for our race. Without comming to any real conclusion yet)



I've heard this plant-to-animal ratio concept referenced a lot in opposition to Vegetarian, Pescetarian and Vegan diets. Most commonly in reference to the relatively unsubstantiated idea that an increase in proteins from higher consumption of animal fat is what kicked off the evolution of higher learning functions. Pretty much anytime I see a meat-heavy diet fad I just see people trying to justify the excesses of modern humanity.


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## highlordmugfug (Apr 2, 2011)

Mordacain said:


> I've heard this plant-to-animal ratio concept referenced a lot in opposition to Vegetarian, Pescetarian and Vegan diets. Most commonly in reference to the relatively unsubstantiated idea that an increase in proteins from higher consumption of animal fat is what kicked off the evolution of higher learning functions. Pretty much anytime I see a meat-heavy diet fad I just see people trying to justify the excesses of modern humanity.


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## S-O (Apr 7, 2011)

I'm with you highlordmugfug. I have a friend who goes by this, and to be fair, he look great, but with this diet comes funky energy levels until a certian point, I forget the medical term, kertosis or something, don't quote me on it. But with enough fruits one ought to be able to keep up on energy levels. Otherwise, the paleo dieter seems to nap frequently. My dude would zonk out if his body was at rest for too long, he held through class, but napped between somewhat often, if he didn't bash on some caffeine.

Now, he looks great, but he is not going into any marathons anytime soon. I'm a chubby yet fit fuck, am at the gym lifting every other day, getting a mile in on off days and playing basketball with the doods after running.

I did adopt some of the paleo ideas, as I find them nifty, I cut down on grains and such a bit, breads seem to be one of those things you don't realize how much you bashed on until later, and you didn't get much nutrients out of it. I buy bags of oranges and grapefruits, bash on them often, usually on my way to class. Keeps appetite down and metabolism up, or at least for me.


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## Origin (Apr 7, 2011)

The food kinda looks good, the seafood thing anyway. 

Still, my favourite diet is 'anything when you're not a fatass who eats too much.' 
Just no pop or junk food and getting off the ass once in a while. I don't understand how people refuse to actively acknowledge this.


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## Revan132 (Apr 7, 2011)

Diets only exist for people to find an "easy way out." No one in today's fat society wants to hear "run a mile on the treadmill, and put down the Big Mac." They want to have their cake and eat it too (the entire cake). This is a huge reason why I can't get a lot of my friends to lose weight like I did (60 lbs later). They don't understand it requires effort; there is no magical diet or pill that will make you lose weight in a natural, healthy way. That being said, the only "diet" I subscribe to is carb cycling (At least this is logical).


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## gtrbmart (Apr 7, 2011)

Well, in taking this thread in, perhaps, another direction. I "follow" a paleo-like diet. I say "follow" because I don't follow any set guidelines. I've read a lot of medical literature and follow the blogs of many doctors who promote higher fat diets and now I just eat based on my own judgement.

Anyway, when I was eating close to 70% fat (mostly saturated but a small amount mono-), about 25% animal protein, and the rest in chocolate, I lost 80 pounds in the span of 8 months. I know a friend who did the same and lost 60 pounds in half a year. Results speak volumes, I say.

EDIT: Also I did very little exercise during this time as it was during one of my busiest semesters. I was never a soda drinker or Big Mac eater or anything like that. I was raised on a carbohydrate heavy diet (bread at every meal is as Portuguese as it gets).


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## Revan132 (Apr 7, 2011)

gtrbmart said:


> Well, in taking this thread in, perhaps, another direction. I "follow" a paleo-like diet. I say "follow" because I don't follow any set guidelines. I've read a lot of medical literature and follow the blogs of many doctors who promote higher fat diets and now I just eat based on my own judgement.
> 
> Anyway, when I was eating close to 70% fat (mostly saturated but a small amount mono-), about 25% animal protein, and the rest in chocolate, I lost 80 pounds in the span of 8 months. I know a friend who did the same and lost 60 pounds in half a year. Results speak volumes, I say.
> 
> EDIT: Also I did very little exercise during this time as it was during one of my busiest semesters. I was never a soda drinker or Big Mac eater or anything like that. I was raised on a carbohydrate heavy diet (bread at every meal is as Portuguese as it gets).



I'm gonna call bullshit on this one. Pics or it didn't happen.


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## gtrbmart (Apr 8, 2011)

I've never done the before and after thing. I don't have any good pictures of me recently but here's a sample success story from a guy that prescribes something similar to what I do.

The Unconquerable Dave | Mark&#039;s Daily Apple


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## highlordmugfug (Apr 8, 2011)

gtrbmart said:


> I've never done the before and after thing. I don't have any good pictures of me recently but here's a sample success story from a guy that prescribes something similar to what I do.
> 
> The Unconquerable Dave | Mark&#039;s Daily Apple



Paleo-diet. Lots of protein, not much else.





We're gonna miss ya puppy.


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## Revan132 (Apr 8, 2011)

gtrbmart said:


> Well, in taking this thread in, perhaps, another direction. I "follow" a paleo-like diet. I say "follow" because I don't follow any set guidelines. I've read a lot of medical literature and follow the blogs of many doctors who promote higher fat diets and now I just eat based on my own judgement.
> 
> Anyway, when I was eating close to 70% fat (mostly saturated but a small amount mono-), about 25% animal protein, and the rest in chocolate, I lost 80 pounds in the span of 8 months. I know a friend who did the same and lost 60 pounds in half a year. Results speak volumes, I say.
> 
> EDIT: Also I did very little exercise during this time as it was during one of my busiest semesters. I was never a soda drinker or Big Mac eater or anything like that. I was raised on a carbohydrate heavy diet (bread at every meal is as Portuguese as it gets).



I also really wouldn't suggest eating that much saturated fat. Fat is good for you, but mostly unsaturated fats (Nuts, olive oils). It's been proven hundreds of times over; saturated fat (and cholesterol) is directly related to most types of coronary diseases and hypertension.


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## gtrbmart (Apr 8, 2011)

Revan132 said:


> I also really wouldn't suggest eating that much saturated fat. Fat is good for you, but mostly unsaturated fats (Nuts, olive oils). It's been proven hundreds of times over; saturated fat (and cholesterol) is directly related to most types of coronary diseases and hypertension.



I can see that I won't be able to sway you but if you ever want a good read, grab a copy of Good Calories, Bad Calories by Gary Taubes.


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## Revan132 (Apr 8, 2011)

gtrbmart said:


> I can see that I won't be able to sway you but if you ever want a good read, grab a copy of Good Calories, Bad Calories by Gary Taubes.



My father does nothing but eat saturated fats and cholesterol all day and he has had two heart attacks, has heart disease, and has hypertension. My entire family has histories of this. Perhaps you should explain your reasoning. Sell me.


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## RichIKE (Apr 14, 2011)

I lost about 60 Pounds on the "Paleo" diet with minimal exercise. The extreme reduction in refined Carbohydrates in this diet is great for weight loss. Once I eliminated all of that extra sugar from my diet I also slept better and generally felt better. I highly recommend this diet to anyone.


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## RichIKE (Apr 14, 2011)

Revan132 said:


> I also really wouldn't suggest eating that much saturated fat. Fat is good for you, but mostly unsaturated fats (Nuts, olive oils). It's been proven hundreds of times over; saturated fat (and cholesterol) is directly related to most types of coronary diseases and hypertension.



Heart Disease is mostly caused by inflammation and the plaquing out of cholesterol due to having the small pattern LDL. The large fluffy pattern is the alternative and is resistant to plaquing. the Large fluffy pattern is produced by the consumption of saturated fats and the small dense pattern that can become plaqued is produced by excessive carbohydrate intake. Excess carbs also are pro-inflammatory. Heart disease and the like have almost nothing to do with cholesterol itself. A good watch would be the movie "Fat Head" by Tom Naughton.

Fat Head (2009) - IMDb


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## saxman42 (Jun 22, 2013)

I've been on the paleo diet for about four weeks now and have lost 8 lbs overall (including the weight gained in muscle from crossfit 4-5 times a week). I have a lot more energy every day and it's a very easy diet to follow when you get into the swing of things.

I've tried lots of diets over the last few years and this is the only one I can see actually sticking with. I haven't had wheat in a month and I only have sugar in my coffee, but I don't care anymore. It was rough for the first week, but it got a lot easier after that. I definitely think this is a great way to get in shape.


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## Labrie (Jun 23, 2013)

Revan132 said:


> I also really wouldn't suggest eating that much saturated fat. Fat is good for you, but mostly unsaturated fats (Nuts, olive oils). It's been proven hundreds of times over; saturated fat (and cholesterol) is directly related to most types of coronary diseases and hypertension.



Everything is good for you in moderation, except for maybe trans fats which is what you get at McDonalds. One of the main causes of arteriosclerosis and the subsequent hypertension resulting from it, is by inflammation of the blood vessels over a long period of time. Insulin spikes are a major cause of this inflammation which happens when you eat a lot of simple and refined sugars. I.e. grains, which is a staple in pretty much every north american diet. 

What is the cause of type 2 diabetes in our world today? The fact that people eat so much sugar. What do diabetics most likely end up dying from? Heart attack, stroke, hypertensive crisis. It's not just a coincidence.

Sugar is the culprit, fats just get caught in the crosshairs. Now I'm not saying eating a pound of bacon a day is good for you but I'd bet there's a lot more to your family history than simply eating lots of saturated fats. How about excercise, smoking, diabetes, overweight?

There is merit to this cave man diet and I wouldn't be so quick to turn my nose to it. I don't follow it personally but I know people that do. One person I know was on it for 8 months and hasn't had to use his asthma puffers since (and he's had them his whole life).


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## sage (Jun 25, 2013)

I'm giving it a go. Been on it for 4 days. I'm making sure that more than 1/2 of the food I eat by weight is vegetables and fruit. I'll let you know how it goes.

This isn't too far off of what I was already doing, which involves eating very little processed food. I cook most of my own meals. Basically, I've removed the oatmeal for breakfast and replaced it with some fruit, nuts, and meat or eggs, removed the bread from the sandwich at lunch and put whatever I was gonna eat on a huge mess of lettuce instead, and doubled or even tripled veggies at dinner instead of rice, potatoes, or pasta as a side. I haven't miraculously lost 40 pounds in the last 4 days, so it's obviously not working.


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## Seanthesheep (Jun 25, 2013)

just realized ive been attempting a paleo diet for the past month, been cutting on carbs as much I can without being extreme, upping fruits and veggies as well as meats and proteins. I still dont think Im there with protein intake so I may have to find a way to supplement that, probably with a low carb protein shake since I am working out regularly. and still gotta figure out how to snack on fruit more often. always feels like a chore eating fruit because Its so messy compared to like........ saltine crackers


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## sage (Jun 26, 2013)

Grapes and blueberries are easy, non-messy fruits. Grapes are also awesome frozen. Like little popsicles.


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## KevHo (Jun 26, 2013)

Could you elaborate on this a little?

I am very interested in what you did to achieve the muscle gain and cuts. I want to do something that I can make a permanent lifestyle change with, not some crazy diet that will only work for the short term.



soliloquy said:


> yeah, i dont get it when people boast about a specific diet they are on and going strong so and so many days...
> 
> i just look at em and say 'enjoy the losses and cuts you've made in the last 3 days. just be warned you'll earn your loses in gaining double the weight you loss!'
> 
> i was sort of on a paleo diet without really knowing it for a bit. i cut down my carbs to only stuff my body needed, but nothing extra. boosted my protein. cut down my fat. boosted my veggies and fruits, and cut down anything unnatural. i didn't really loose much as i was working out and also on some supplements. so though i didn't loose, i did gain quiet a bit of muscle, and i started seeing cuts on my body all over. really cool stuff...


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## sage (Jun 26, 2013)

To inject a little funny into this convo:



Because it's such a buzzword/fad thing, the amount of "paleos" injected into this thing cracked me right up.


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## zuzek (Jun 28, 2013)

There's a lot about the paleo diet that makes sense from both an intuitive point of view and a scientific one. That said, there is no perfect diet as scientists are still exploring what an optimum diet might be. Hence you have so many variations. Personally, I follow a paleo-ish diet and have been for some time. There's a few general rules for me: 1) I do not eat anything with wheat products in it or that has been processed along with wheat products 2) I stay away from refined products and stick to whole foods 3) I do not consume sugar 4) for as much as possible I do not consume products that have 'scientific additives'; you know the kind that is difficult to pronounce right away, E numbers etcetera 5) for as much as possible I buy organic, always paying attention to what the label tells me and what I can find out about the supplier due to the looseness of the term.

This has done me so many worlds of good I never want to go back to the average man's diet. I have a healthier complexion, more energy, stable healthy stool, better memory and more alertness. I could probably come up with more advantages if I thought about it, but whatever.

I do have some issues with the general paleo diet. I'm not convinced about the exclusion of legumes (lentils are one of my staples for carbs) as phytates are only anti-nutrients in massive amounts. The same is true for lectins, which are actually extremely beneficial to a human in moderate doses. As I carb cycle, this is never an issue. It is simply about moderation. I still have dairy as I love milk (cannot get raw here, only hormone/GM-free) and fermented dairy in my opinion is absolutely fine. As long as you are not lactose intolerant in the slightest I have not seen or heard any scientifically underpinned research that says you shouldn't be consuming it.

At first it is hard to adapt because you have to get rid of that sweet tooth you had, the cravings for a slice of toast, store bought beef jerky.. whatever. After only a few weeks these desires diminish and even when you have cravings, you learn to find ways to address to them. For sweet stuff I eat 85% chocolate or dates. Hell, if I use coconut/almond flour and honey instead of sugar I can still bake cakes. I can use coconut oil and honey to make lemon curd which tastes far better than the store bought jarred crap.

There's also not as much wrong with saturated fats as people say. One of the healthiest oils to consume is extra virgin cold pressed coconut oil. This is very much because of its contents of lauric acid, a saturated fat. There needs to be more research about the whole saturated/unsaturated fat debate as there is really no definitive thing to say for either camp. Some unsaturated fats are known to be incredibly unhealthy (hi canola/vegetable oils) From a personal point of view, I do not see animals pick and choose on the Discovery channel and only eat the lean parts (animal fat is saturated fat). Likewise, I intuitively don't think our ancestors treated animals they caught that much differently. 

You know the common thought you shouldn't have more than 2 egg yolks a day? There are common misconceptions about cholesterol. There are two types, oxidized and non-oxidized cholesterol. The second is extremely beneficial and even necessary to us. Egg yolks are extremely nutrient dense and have exactly the right type of cholesterol: non-oxidized. The yolk only oxidizes if you expose it to (tada!) oxygen for too long and overcook it terribly. All things are good in moderation, but you can have 4-5 eggs if you want. It's really not bad for you.

In the end, we all know that we are what we eat. For me the biggest push towards learning about nutrition was thinking critically about this. Think very critically about what you eat in a day. Check the labels. The majority of people I know really don't do themselves justice.


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## fortisursus (Jul 7, 2013)

I once tried making a big cut in the carbs and didn't work out well. I was overall more fatigued. As I see it there is no magic in dieting. Just eat what is characteristic of your activity level. And eat healthy foods. I may be on a fringe, but I believe most of the "energized" feeling is mental. The debate comes back to the age old placebo effect.


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## sage (Jul 12, 2013)

OK, progress report on Paleo type diet. I'm down just over 10 lbs in the 17 days I've been eating like a quasi caveman. I'm also enjoying the food I eat a lot more. It's just a much higher quality all the time. Tonight, I made pulled pork for a potluck tomorrow night. One whole pork loin slowly simmered in 650ml of nice beer, apple cider vinegar, garlic, cumin, coriander seeds, and bay leaves for 3.5 hours. It fell apart. I reserved some of the braising juices. I'm going to brown it in the oven tomorrow before I go. I also whipped up a barbecue sauce. 2 small cans of tomato paste, 1/2 can of chipotle in adobo sauce, 3 tbsp honey, 3/4 cup apple cider vinegar, and one of those barbie sized bottles of rum. I'm hoping there will be enough left over for the potluck. Mrs. Sage may wipe out the whole batch.


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