# Looking for advice on Equipment, Recording and Mixing! (Starting with the equipment.)



## Dragonfly (Jun 25, 2010)

.. Just check the last post. Thank you!




.. Because I already made 'some' choices, so this text is not that relevant anymore.


Hello , if you know anything about the equipment needed for recording or mixing, please read, if you can help me it will really be appreciated!

I got some questions, first off, I've never 'recorded' anything for mixing purposes. Never mixed anything also.
But I want to get into recording my guitar, bass, e-drums and if everything goes well vocals too. Then I would like to be able to mix everything into a good sounding track.
Now, I don't expect myself too be able to learn all this in a few weeks, that's why I'm starting my questions now.

If everything goes as planned then I will be able to buy myself equipment to get my recording and mixing started in *summer 2011* that's in a year, so there's enough time (because I'm sometimes rather slow at learning when it comes to job-specific terms in English + I'll never know when I will get a hold-up.)

Seeing that I want to get equipment, I need to know what there is for what price and what suits my needs. Now as I mentioned I have zero experience here, so I really hope you can help me out. I have read through various articles and topics on the forum here (also on the rest of the internet) but a lot of stuff are hard for me to understand because of some specific terms and the fact that I don't know jack about this all 

*So that's question one, what equipment would I need? *
Here's what I want (and got):
I want to be able to record bass and guitar (separately - this is all one-man-band stuff, so I won't have multiple tracks going at the same time.)
I like the idea of using cab sims for what I've recorded (or maybe something in between, like a POD.) But I just don't want to mic my amp because I think it's a lot harder and more expensive.
I've got electronic drums which have a MIDI output, so I'd like to stick that in somewhere for recording.
And as mentioned, if all goes well I will have to record vocals also!
So I need something to connect the sound to my PC, (I think this is called an 'interface' but I'm not sure if that's the correct term)

Now I'm not planning on recording stuff for other people, so this only needs to suit what I want. Secondly, I don't have ten-thousands to spend. I don't expect to get the 'real recording studio' sound. But I'll settle for some sweet 'pre-production-ish' sound (like some found on this sub-forum.)
I have the time on my hands to learns things and adjust things, I just don't have a huge amount of money and I'm not intending on spending a huge amount of money because I've never done this stuff before. (My max budget would be 5.000 euro (which is about the same in dollars/pounds.. give or take. but that budget is the absolute max! I would prefer it to be more around 3000 or lower.)

With that said, beside the 'interface' I will need a PC. I read through the whole Mac vs PC thing and I'm not going to be bothered to pay a lot more (and can go on discussing about this, but that's for the other topic.)
Currently I have a laptop, which has a mic in, but I haven't tried sticking my guitar in there.
On other articles they all mentioned you need a lot of RAM for working with audio programs. (that's DAW's right?)
They also mentioned that that would cost me about 3.000 ? Now I think that that's a bit too high for me considering my budget.
I've got a friend who can help me day and night building a PC, so once I know what specs I want I can get it for a good price.
Do I need a good sounds card when I have an interface?
Oh, and because I still have my laptop I probably wont have to run programs on the new PC (though - if it has to have a nice CPU + lot's of RAM in there then I'll probably use if for CAD programs and Photoshop also.)

And off course an audio program. In the other topic they mentioned reaper, now I will check it out, but it's hard to check out software while you haven't got any samples/recorded stuff to work with/test things out.

I've got a room available which is pretty 'empty': there's a bed, closet, desk and my electronic drums. I was thinking of using that room for the mixing part. Now off course I need to know if I have to do something with this room (I'm not going to build a concrete wall inside the room.) Because the next item on the shopping list would be monitors/headphones. I need to know whether I can prepare my room for some nice monitors or whether I need to just drop it and get some headphones and deal with it. (If you need more information about this before being able to answer, please ask!)
Also for the same room I would like to make a recording booth to record vocals. So I also need some hints about such booth (I'm probably using the wrong word.) and I also need some info about microphones - I'll also ask my vocal coach about this.

In the video's I saw on youtube they all had a midi keyboard. Now I've got a keyboard, just not midi (it's old..) would a midi keyboard be useful in my situation - note, I want other instruments in my mix as well with the use of VST's (I hope I'm not saying impossible things now 'cause my knowledge is limited.)

Oh, and what about mixing board (with all the sliders and stuff?) I've used them at band repetition, will I have use for such thing/ do I need it?

The questions above are mostly needed for me in a year (not that you have to wait your answers a year, not that - please answer or give suggestions or ask questions so that I can reply and get some wisdom about all this - if it's any motivator, all useful reply's that will really help me will of course be repped )

Onto some more questions, what can I do over the timespan of a year.
Is it possible to already buy an interface and use it on my laptop? (it has some on-board sound. and I used the DPC latency checker and is was mostly below 500 micro seconds with some jumps to 1100 micro seconds. But the program said that was good enough.)
That way I could start recording and when I have audio software, then I could even try out some mixing by just jumping in and testing stuff.
If so, then again, what could I need more, what is suggested?

I'm not into buying anymore stuff for recording in the following 2 years (well, not upgrading that is, if I need additions, then I could get those.) because I still have my eyes on some 6 or more stringed basses.

But anyways, I will buy the PC no matter what next summer, if everything fails and I won't be able to record/mix then it will just be a working computer (I'll probably change the specs then though.) Also, I'm not definitive now on buying all those stuff then, but I will be more sure on whether yes or no at the start of 2011.

*So, long story short (but less detailed) *I want to start recording and mixing.
I have zero experience and equipment. I would like to start practicing as soon as possible with recording and mixing. In summer 2011 I'll have the money (and more view on whether it's going to work or not) to buy a PC + monitors.
This leads me to the end of my drastically long post and I was thinking of getting an interface soon to start doing something, but I don't know where to start, what to look for and what will serve my needs. Also I don't want to buy a new one in a year when the more serious recording starts.
Budget for all that's needed (PC, monitors, midi-keyboard, interface, microphone, + all the other things I need but don't know off.) is maxed at 5.000 euro/dollar/pound give or take. But I would rather start of light/simple with equipment sub-3.000 .. don't know if that still sounds high/low, but I'm thinking about 1500 for a PC, 300 interface, 100 microphone, 300 monitors, and 300 midi-keyboard + other? .. this is all just guessing, still no clue about what I really need for what I want to do.

I hope everything is clear, if not (or when in doubt!) please ask, comment, share experiences, or tell about whatever you know that can help me on this. 

Thank you very much for reading, 

Ps. I probably forgot a lot and some parts are probably hard to understand because English is not my native language, sorry for that and thank you for your patience.


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## Dragonfly (Jun 25, 2010)

Damn, it's more text then I thought. I know that pictures and less text would probably make it more interesting to read, but I'm just giving all the info I think is necessary for you to get an idea of what I need.

All helpful/constructive reply's are appreciated.

I also got the REAPER evaluation. I'm going to try if I can get myself familiar with it. (It keeps screaming that there's a problem with the audio hardware..)

EDIT: learned some basics in Reaper, I know how to create a track, record something with my crappy laptop mic, and add FX and envelopes on it (I understand what envelopes and FX are, just don't know all the possibilities.
Oh, And I have a Line6 Backtrack (+mic) , which I use to record my playing to check for mistakes, would that be any use here? It has a IN and OUT (3/4")


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## Dragonfly (Jun 26, 2010)

.. someone? 

I'm going to the city now, when I come back I'm going to look for more info on the internet, but I hope someone here could help me out a bit as well!


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## Dragonfly (Jun 26, 2010)

Random dude from the internet: "Hey Dragonfly, I know something that might help you with this, it sure helped me:
The Best Audio Interfaces for your Home Studio by TweakHeadz Lab "

Dragonfly: "Oh, thank you, that's something I was looking for!! I spend hours searching the internet!"

(.. well that didn't happen for real, I just made that up)

Ok, I've read it all, (and now I vaguely now some stuff about Audio Interfaces/soundcards..)

And here are some tables:

PCI Audio Interface Comparison Chart
Tweak's USB 2.0 Audio Interface Comparison Chart
Audio Interface Comparison Chart by TweakHeadz Lab

Now at first I thought I needed a case, so that would be USB2 of Firewire,, but I don't know now, maybe PCI would be fine also for my needs, any views on this?
(If there aren't any views on this, I'll probably check out the USB2 and FireWire stuff.)

I don't need to record different things at the same time, so I'll only need 2 Inputs (but that still gives me the ability to record 2 things at the same time for when a friend comes over.)

I would like MIDI, because I have E-drums and am considering a MIDI keyboard for soft-synths (damn I'm learning so much stuff these days!)

But then I read something about when you have a mixer, you'll need more outputs and inputs. So do I need a mixer? Or do I want to use a software mixer?

What about s/pdif i/o ????

Because these two seam ok:
- Tascam US122 MKII at zZounds
- Tascam US144 MKII from zZounds.com
EDIT2: (btw, what's the difference, they just glued a LINT OUT knob on it.. what does it do?)
EDIT: just noticed that these have weird microphone inputs (or is that normal? :s - and what's up with the "Line in L and Lin in/guitar R" does that mean that guitar can only be done in the right one? Any experienced users here?
And I read in the guide that the outputs are used for monitors and that you'll need the USB/firewire to your PC (doh), but what you have a mixer, you'll need more output.. euh? Then what does the mixer do with the.. euh.. I don't get it.

More suggestions?
It doesn't have to be this cheap, but these where the cheapest I came across (on those lists.) And I have no idea what I would need more or have more use for.
+ What about the pre-amps on this? I that OK for guitars/basses/mics? + Do I need that?

Again, thank you for all your responses, really appreciate it!


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## Dragonfly (Jun 26, 2010)

There are midi to usb converters, those will work for recording my E-drums right?

That way I won't specifically need a MIDI port op the Audio Interface, 
I just need an Audio Interface for guitar/bass/vocals, all recorded seperatly. With good enough sound between (100-500?)

Recommendations? (And also for the MIDI to USB, if that's not on the Audio Interface)


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## Andii (Jun 26, 2010)

You will need:
Interface: the one you posted will do for what you are describing. It has a switch on it to plug the guitar straight in. That is really important for using amp vsts. 

Computer: You will want something with some serious power. A quad core machine will do. You will want at least 4gb of memory, but more if you can. The motherboard needs USB2.0 ports. This is the most expensive part, but it won't come out to be much if you are smart about it. I build my own computers and it saves a lot. I also use the licenses from old obsolete computers for windows installations. So you get the OS for free if you build your own saving you megatons. It may be possible to upgrade the computer you're reading this from to what you need. Even if you replace almost everything you will save on the monitor, mouse, keyboard, case, disc drive, OS, hard drive and maybe power supply.

A DAW: Anything with a good piano roll and vst support will do. That rules out protools unless you get the expansion that allows vst.

Monitors and headphones: You will want some monitors that are at least 8 inches so you can tell what you are doing. KRK Rockit 8s are a good choice. For headphones the ATHm40fs are the best deal. They go 20hz-20khz and are really cheap. They reproduce the sound very accurately. Listen to lots of music on your monitoring equipment so you will know how things are supposed to sound. That is a very important thing to do.

VSTs: You will want to load the PC with all the great free amp sim software there is out there. All of it beats the vst amps that you pay for and also beats the feces out of PODs. Poulin amps and poulin lecab running the catharsis impulses is a sweet combo. Also check out the x30 preamp vst. You Should also get TSS which is a free tubescreamer vst to put before the amp. 

Drum samples: Steven Slate or superior 2.0


All of that stuff is a lot cheaper than you think and you could get started much sooner than you plan. It comes in less than half of the budget you're planning. If you go with the headphones and skip the monitors for now you can get started sooner. 

Also anyone that tells you that it's not possible to get pro sounding recordings at your house has no idea what they're talking about. It's all about what you do and not what expensive stuff you have. I've heard a multitude of bedroom recordings that sounded much better than most professional jobs.


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## Dragonfly (Jun 26, 2010)

Andii said:


> You will need:
> Interface: the one you posted will do for what you are describing. It has a switch on it to plug the guitar straight in. That is really important for using amp vsts.


But what does that mean, if I want to look at alternatives, I just have to look for a switch to plug the guitar straight into it? (I don't want to regret my buy within 2 weeks, so I'm kind of picky.) 



> Computer: You will want something with some serious power. A quad core machine will do. You will want at least 4gb of memory, but more if you can. The motherboard needs USB2.0 ports. This is the most expensive part, but it won't come out to be much if you are smart about it. I build my own computers and it saves a lot. I also use the licenses from old obsolete computers for windows installations. So you get the OS for free if you build your own saving you megatons. It may be possible to upgrade the computer you're reading this from to what you need. Even if you replace almost everything you will save on the monitor, mouse, keyboard, case, disc drive, OS, hard drive and maybe power supply.


Yeah, I can build some stuff myself, that's no problem at all, just wondering a bit about specs some more, here are a few examples of some stuff I found, I sorted on quad-cores with at least 6gb of RAM:

Dell Inspiron 580 MT (D005827) (This one is the cheapest with the specs mentioned above.)
CPU: Ci5 750 (that's 2667Mhz, with 8MB l3-cache)
RAM: 6GB (ddr-3)
HD: 1TB
Price:  698,99

HP Pavilion p6260nl (VS180AA) (One with the Ci7 instead of the Ci5 (so high-end instead of mid-end)
CPU: Ci7 860 (2.8Ghz, 8mb l3-cache)
RAM: 6GB (ddr-3)
HD: 1TB
Price:  849,- (It's 150 euro more expensive, that' why I'm wondering what the high-end Ci7 is doing that much better than the Ci5 core?)

Dell Inspiron 580 MT (D005829) (One with the same Ci5 as the first example, but with 8gb RAM)
CPU: Ci5 750
RAM: 8GB (ddr-3)
HD: 1TB
Price:  828,99 (about 120 euro more expensive than the first because it has 2gb more RAM in it, is that fair?)



> A DAW: Anything with a good piano roll and vst support will do. That rules out protools unless you get the expansion that allows vst.


I'm not sure what a piano roll is, but would REAPER do the job? I'm figuring that one out at the moment, haven't had any contact with other DAW's



> Monitors and headphones: You will want some monitors that are at least 8 inches so you can tell what you are doing. KRK Rockit 8s are a good choice. For headphones the ATHm40fs are the best deal. They go 20hz-20khz and are really cheap. They reproduce the sound very accurately. Listen to lots of music on your monitoring equipment so you will know how things are supposed to sound. That is a very important thing to do.


I will look into the monitors and headphones. Just what I don't understand is how do you know when something is a 'monitor' instead of just an ordinary speaker?



> VSTs: You will want to load the PC with all the great free amp sim software there is out there. All of it beats the vst amps that you pay for and also beats the feces out of PODs. Poulin amps and poulin lecab running the catharsis impulses is a sweet combo. Also check out the x30 preamp vst. You Should also get TSS which is a free tubescreamer vst to put before the amp.


I read something about impulses in another topic, are those the same thing?
And I haven't got a clue how to put a VST in front of another one, but I'll figure it out when the time comes. 



> Drum samples: Steven Slate or superior 2.0


I thought these are just for programming purposes, can I use them with my E-drums too? (stupid question probably, I'll google it after I finish this post.)



> All of that stuff is a lot cheaper than you think and you could get started much sooner than you plan. It comes in less than half of the budget you're planning. If you go with the headphones and skip the monitors for now you can get started sooner.


That's a great thing to hear, because I only picked the high budget because I was afraid of getting flamed with "You can't record something good when you haven't got that much money!" - so I took a bit of a higher budget, in hope it would be lower in the end 



> Also anyone that tells you that it's not possible to get pro sounding recordings at your house has no idea what they're talking about. It's all about what you do and not what expensive stuff you have. I've heard a multitude of bedroom recordings that sounded much better than most professional jobs.


This sounds motivating, but then again, I've seen some rooms decorated with 'bass traps' or some sort of 'egg shaped foam' to make the sound in the room better or something? How do I know if I need this and when?

Thanks for replying, you gave me a lot to think about, and sorry for the habit of making really long posts.. I just tend to do things long when I'm excited, and I'm excited about doing this!


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## Andii (Jun 27, 2010)

Dragonfly said:


> But what does that mean, if I want to look at alternatives, I just have to look for a switch to plug the guitar straight into it? (I don't want to regret my buy within 2 weeks, so I'm kind of picky.)


Plugging a guitar into a normal 1/4 in won't work right because it would be the wrong level and impedance. You need an unbalanced 1/4 input. That tascam has a switch that switches the 1/4 to instrument level. Whatever you get make sure it has unbalanced 1/4 ins so you can use amp sims.



Dragonfly said:


> Yeah, I can build some stuff myself, that's no problem at all, just wondering a bit about specs some more, here are a few examples of some stuff I found, I sorted on quad-cores with at least 6gb of RAM:


Those are decent prices. The details on computers go on and on so much that it's like another topic. Building one is my favorite way to go but there are better options than dell and HP:

If you go the out of the box route take a look at Asus:
Asus - Essentio Desktop with Intel® Core&#8482; i5 Processor - CG5275-AR003

It has 8gb mem and 8 usb2.0 ports etc. It's a better deal than other brands. I built 2 computers recently with Asus motherboards and I really like them.



Dragonfly said:


> I'm not sure what a piano roll is, but would REAPER do the job? I'm figuring that one out at the moment, haven't had any contact with other DAW's


The piano roll is where you program synths and drums. It's an area with a grid that you put notes on and can edit midi data. I don't know much about the one in reaper, but I'm sure that there is info somewhere about its capability or incapability in that area. 


Dragonfly said:


> I will look into the monitors and headphones. Just what I don't understand is how do you know when something is a 'monitor' instead of just an ordinary speaker?


 Monitors are self powered speakers that deliver flat response. They are made specifically for mixing and mastering.




Dragonfly said:


> I read something about impulses in another topic, are those the same thing?
> And I haven't got a clue how to put a VST in front of another one, but I'll figure it out when the time comes.


Yeah. Impulses are cab simulation files that you run in a vst such as Poulin lecab. The catharsis impulses are free and are some of the best out there. They chain after each other on the channel you're putting your guitar to. 

My chain is tss>poulin legion>poulin lecab. 


Dragonfly said:


> I thought these are just for programming purposes, can I use them with my E-drums too? (stupid question probably, I'll google it after I finish this post.)



Yeah you can use them with your ekit. Play your electronic kit and recording the midi is similar to programming drums, just with a different input method.




Dragonfly said:


> That's a great thing to hear, because I only picked the high budget because I was afraid of getting flamed with "You can't record something good when you haven't got that much money!" - so I took a bit of a higher budget, in hope it would be lower in the end
> 
> 
> This sounds motivating, but then again, I've seen some rooms decorated with 'bass traps' or some sort of 'egg shaped foam' to make the sound in the room better or something? How do I know if I need this and when?
> ...


You won't need acoustic treatment unless you start recording drums and other things that have a lot of air and some microphones involved. If your room rings bad and sounds strange you would need some panels it to hear monitors correctly, but normal rooms with carpet etc. are usually fine.


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## wlfers (Jun 27, 2010)

Hey dragonfly, I recently got my impulses running with reaper and I'm about to explore some drum software too. Since I just got my reaper up and running I can probably answer alot of your beginners questions with it =D


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## wlfers (Jun 27, 2010)

edit doublepost


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## Dragonfly (Jun 27, 2010)

Andii said:


> Plugging a guitar into a normal 1/4 in won't work right because it would be the wrong level and impedance. You need an unbalanced 1/4 input. That tascam has a switch that switches the 1/4 to instrument level. Whatever you get make sure it has unbalanced 1/4 ins so you can use amp sims.


I thought the difference between balanced and unbalanced was that balanced has a separate L and R, what does impedance have to do with that? (though I've noted that I will need a unbalanced 1/4 input.
What about the pre-amps in the AI's?
And does a mic need an unbalanced 1/4 input also? (ifso, why would anyone need a balanced?)



> If you go the out of the box route take a look at Asus:
> Asus - Essentio Desktop with Intel® Core i5 Processor - CG5275-AR003
> 
> It has 8gb mem and 8 usb2.0 ports etc. It's a better deal than other brands. I built 2 computers recently with Asus motherboards and I really like them.


Those links I gave where the first I could find with a pricewatch, that Asus is indeed a lot cheaper + Asus is indeed nice, my Asus laptop is still doing lovely.
I'm going to look at the internet for differences with the Ci5 and Ci7, because most Ci7 seem to have a lower clock speed, which is weird, cause they are high-end of the series..
Btw, do I need to get a fast HD? I don't know how the speeds are now, but I would probably start looking for something with 7200RPM, but do I need more because the recording puts massive data on your HD? (+ I have no idea how much space the recording requires, but what about HD space? most seem to have between 1TB and 2TB nowadays, will 1TB be enough, or does that mean I'll have to throw off a lot of recordings within a year.)



> The piano roll is where you program synths and drums. It's an area with a grid that you put notes on and can edit midi data. I don't know much about the one in reaper, but I'm sure that there is info somewhere about its capability or incapability in that area.


Reaper has a piano roll, it's CTRL+dragging a MIDI sequence and then opening the roll in which you can drag notes on every sound. Seems good enough.(?)



> Yeah. Impulses are cab simulation files that you run in a vst such as Poulin lecab. The catharsis impulses are free and are some of the best out there. They chain after each other on the channel you're putting your guitar to.
> 
> My chain is tss>poulin legion>poulin lecab.


Noted, I'll see what I can do with this, thanks.



> You won't need acoustic treatment unless you start recording drums and other things that have a lot of air and some microphones involved. If your room rings bad and sounds strange you would need some panels it to hear monitors correctly, but normal rooms with carpet etc. are usually fine.


Then I'm thinking I might have to switch to the guest room, because when I play bass here, at certain tones, stuff starts ringing.

I'm currently reading through this whole site: Tweak's Guide to the Home and Project Studio
Lot's of info, and I'm a slow reader ..
On the left you can see the chapters, there are so many.. and every chapter is long. But I'm learning, and that's the goal!


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## Dragonfly (Jun 28, 2010)

Ok, let me assemble a shopping list, look through it and give suggestions (other products that suit my needs), ideas, or whatever:

Monitors (don't know any other options):





*KRK RP-8G2*
Price: 229 euro each, so 458 euro for both.

(What about the 5" or 6" versions of these? And do these come with cables?)

Also found these monitors suggested:
http://www.zzounds.com/item--MACMR5

Headphones (don't know any other options - I do have headphones myself, but they're open (the good ones I have,,) and I don't know if they're really flat):




*Audio Technica ATHM40fs Precision Extended-Response Monitor Headphones*
Price: 79 euro

And found these headphones suggested:
http://www.zzounds.com/item--SNYMDR7506

Audio Interface (here I have some different options, didn't have the time to research them all, will do after work - for the ones without MIDI I'll need a separate MIDI device transfer converter thingy..):




*Tascam US100 USB 2.0*
Price: 95 euro





*Tascam US122 MKII USB 2.0*
Price: 135 euro





*Tascam US144 MKII USB 2.0*
Price: 166 euro 

(What's the difference between this one and the previous one? US122 vs US144)





*M-Audio Fast Track MKII USB 2.0*
Price: 119 euro





*Emu 0202 USB 2.0*
Price: 100 euro

(Still have to research these audio interfaces, because I need one that will work well with Windows 7 x64.)

Here are some links to PCI soundcards,, maybe they are fine for me, but I don't want to crawl behind my computer everytime, so I don't know if this is it for me + I haven't researched this at all.. so I know nothing about this except the fact that they're in my price range, have 2 Inputs and support MIDI:
http://www.zzounds.com/item--EMU8803
http://www.zzounds.com/item--ECHMIAMIDI
http://www.zzounds.com/item--MDOAP2496
http://www.zzounds.com/item--EMU1212M

(So, if you could tell me about this, it would be nice. I'll check it out tonight - Do I need a mixer with these cards?)

Mircrophone (this one got suggested by Tweakheadz - haven't looked up anything else, maybe you have some suggestions):




*Studio Projects B1 Large Diaphragm Condenser Microphone*
Price: 115 euro

(Guess I'll need some sort of shock mount too?)

MIDI keyboard (haven't looked here at all, Tweakheadz suggested a little on with only 2 octaves,, though that could be nice, but I'm able to play a bit of keyboard with 2 hands and that'll get crowded on a small one, but my keyboard doesn't have MIDI, so I'll need a keyboard with MIDI.):
- 

(If you get a MIDI synth, does it record the effects you use with the synth? Also if you have a whammy on your synth, does MIDI support that?)

Computer:
I'll build something here with a quad in it and 8gb of RAM, if I look at what Andii I think I can get one here for about 600-700 euro. Then adding a new monitor (100 euro) Hmm, I don't need a soundcard in my PC at all right? (because of the Audio Interface?)

DAW:
Currently I'm figuring out Reaper, but I noticed some Audio Interfaces come with software.. does that mean you'll get like a 'full version' or one just for recording purposes?

When I got everything running I'll check back on the VST's and Drum Samples.

Thanks again for your input!  I'm going to work now, I'll research more this evening. (And I'll update the links I threw in in the last minute.)


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## Inazone (Jun 28, 2010)

Going in reverse order on a couple of things . . . 

DAW: Most interfaces do NOT include full versions. Instead, you'll usually get something like Cubase LE, Ableton Live Lite, or something along those lines. The exception will be *most* M-Audio interfaces, which will include Pro Tools M-Powered. Although it obviously isn't "full" Pro Tools (more like Pro Tools LE) it is considered a full product of its own. I personally am using Reaper, because there is such a huge online user community that it's easy to get info on almost anything.

Computer: Although you don't need a soundcard, there will most likely be an onboard one that you can disable if desired. As far as the actual hardware, try to buy something with one of the latest processors that supports DDR3 instead of DDR2 memory. In fact, you could probably get by with less RAM at first, as just about any good DDR3-capable PC will be able to take 8GB. As far as processors, go for an Intel "i-series" rather than an earlier-generation quadcore, even if it costs more now.

Interface: If you get an external interface, you can use it with your current computer. The deciding factor between USB and FireWire should probably be the number of channels you actually need to record. FireWire will have a higher sustained throughput, but if you're only recording 1-2 channels at a time, USB will keep up just fine. If you buy a PCI card/interface, you'll get the best performance. You included the Echo Mia card, which is a good card (I had the original non-MIDI version years ago) but if you need to connect a mic, the Mia doesn't have a mic preamp, so you'll need to buy one separately. Don't rule out the Line 6 interfaces either, as they are just as capable as the others you listed.

Monitors: Consider 5" or 6" instead of 8" monitors, and get a subwoofer later if necessary. A lot of the latest monitors have EQ controls to adjust to the room acoustics, so take that into consideration. Mackie and JBL now have "budget" monitor models, and M-Audio and Alesis have some nice inexpensive ones that have a smaller footprint if you have limited space.


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## Dragonfly (Jun 28, 2010)

Inazone said:


> Going in reverse order on a couple of things . . .
> 
> DAW: Most interfaces do NOT include full versions. Instead, you'll usually get something like Cubase LE, Ableton Live Lite, or something along those lines. The exception will be *most* M-Audio interfaces, which will include Pro Tools M-Powered. Although it obviously isn't "full" Pro Tools (more like Pro Tools LE) it is considered a full product of its own. I personally am using Reaper, because there is such a huge online user community that it's easy to get info on almost anything.


Then I'll probably be using Reaper, I'm already starting to get to know it.


> Computer: Although you don't need a soundcard, there will most likely be an onboard one that you can disable if desired. As far as the actual hardware, try to buy something with one of the latest processors that supports DDR3 instead of DDR2 memory. In fact, you could probably get by with less RAM at first, as just about any good DDR3-capable PC will be able to take 8GB. As far as processors, go for an Intel "i-series" rather than an earlier-generation quadcore, even if it costs more now.


Yeah, getting an I series was the idea, there are 2 mid-range Ci5 quads, and the Ci7 are all quads, there pricing isn't that high and they support DDR3, so that'll be fine. 
And I'm gonna be looking for an ASUS motherboard, my old PC and laptop with an ASUS inside are doing great,, my other old computer with an ASROCK motherboard failed.. had to bring it back like 5 times. that series sucked.
I'll check how expensive the memory is when buying, and I can always start with less memory, 


> Interface: If you get an external interface, you can use it with your current computer. The deciding factor between USB and FireWire should probably be the number of channels you actually need to record. FireWire will have a higher sustained throughput, but if you're only recording 1-2 channels at a time, USB will keep up just fine. If you buy a PCI card/interface, you'll get the best performance. You included the Echo Mia card, which is a good card (I had the original non-MIDI version years ago) but if you need to connect a mic, the Mia doesn't have a mic preamp, so you'll need to buy one separately. Don't rule out the Line 6 interfaces either, as they are just as capable as the others you listed.


You're mentioning that recording 1-2 channels with USB will be 'just fine', that doesn't sound really promising though? From what you're saying I read that FireWire can throughput more data, but is that better for lower channels maybe?

You also mention that a PCI card will have better quality then an external interface, does that mean the sound will be better? And does that differ much at my price level?
Because getting a PCI card can still be an option, but I don't have a clear visual on how that'll work out with connecting and stuff. With an external I can easily imagine myself having a little box where I just jam my cable in and be done.

Oh, and all those PCI cards say they have balanced inputs,, will that work with guitar and bass? Because somebody above said it wont.
Also, they don't seem to have those weird XLR microphone inputs,, what does that mean? Can't I use a mic on them?

Do you mean stuff like the POD XT when talking about line6, or do they have specific audio interfaces also? because I also need to be able to hook up a mic and MIDI.


> Monitors: Consider 5" or 6" instead of 8" monitors, and get a subwoofer later if necessary. A lot of the latest monitors have EQ controls to adjust to the room acoustics, so take that into consideration. Mackie and JBL now have "budget" monitor models, and M-Audio and Alesis have some nice inexpensive ones that have a smaller footprint if you have limited space.


The room I'm gonna put that stuff in is about 3x4meters, it has half Linoleum on the floor and half carpet (that's where the E-drum is on.) a bed in there, a closet and a desk. The ceiling is at 2.5meter but since it's on the second floor, theres a bit going shear because of the roof.
So I have enough space, and I just want a good bang for my buck.
You say buying a subwoofer separably, is that better/less expensive / what's the reason? because are there subwoofers made to create a flat response (I have seriously no clue.)
But thanks, I'll look up the stuff you talked about!


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## Dragonfly (Jun 28, 2010)

Something different, I've read quite some stuff about the USB2.0 vs FireWire vs PCI. And every discussion/article goes another way.

But what mostly is said is that USB2.0 is slowest, then comes FireWire and the PCI cards are the fastest because they are tied directly to the motherboard.

I don't really want another power adapter, and noticed most FireWire interfaces need an power adapter, some USB 2.0 interfaces as well. I don't need USB or FireWire btw, it's going to get connected to a desktop and that setup wont change at all.
And I don't want to crawl behind my PC every time to connect cables, because cables + guitars wont be in the same room all the time, and that's when I found this:








Echo Gina 3G PCI Audio Interface (Scroll down to see all the specs)

It's one of the cheaper PCI cards with a breakout box. It's has 2 universal inputs which would suit my needs (they're used for guitar/mic/line), it has pre-amps for the mics. It has MIDI. It has a box outside of the computer. And because it's PCI it should have a lower latency (and maybe better quality?)

I've looked up quite some reviews, because I'm a bit more excited about this then a USB2.0 interface (Dunno, I'm just septic about all the data going through a small wire .. ) and some reviews said it was awesome, that they would buy it again if it went broke. But one was very negative, it said the sound was very 2d, not dynamic at all. (This was at some audiophile forum.) Now, if that's normal for this price range, then OK, but if it's not normal for this price range, then I might look for other options.

So from what I've checked (outside computer box, no power adapter (Sorry, I don't like an extra adapter, or can something like that make the interface much better?), MIDI, usable for guitar & mic, affordable.

Audio Interfaces:
It's that Echo Gina 3g vs Tascam US144Mk2 (the advantage over the US122Mk2 is that is has a separate headphone + line out volume control, that way I won't blow my ears up when I switch to headphones.
(I've seen 2 sites with returned Gina's .. so that's bothering me, please feel free to check out the 4 links below also. So I've got 6 candidates now.)

(Btw, they all have phantom power,, I've read about it but don't get it, my English is bad.)

*These are the candidates:*
Ok, like mentioned above: Tascam US144Mk2
And, Echo Gina 3G PCI Audio Interface
Or maybe (they do have the power adapters,, but they're probably needed.):
M-Audio Fast Track Ultra USB 2.0 Audio Interface (the cheapest M-Audio which has the specs I'm looking for.)
Lexicon Ionix U22 USB 2.0 Recording Audio Interface (it also has the specs I need)
Native Instruments Audio Kontrol 1 Interface (I can't find if this one has a mic preamp (it does have phantom power.), because it has lot's of knobs I don't understand. But the description says it can do guitar, keyboard, mic, etc.. It has 1line/HiZ (TRS), and I read somewhere you needed HiZ to record guitar well. Though again this one is balanced (?) .. USB-powered!, and this one mentions something about ASIO drivers, I read somewhere that was good.)
Last one I found: Emu 0404 USB 2.0 Audio/MIDI Interface (Also has the features I'm looking for.)
EDIT:
Don't know why I haven't found this one before: M-AUDIO FAST TRACK PRO, Also has what I need
Here are 3 FireWire solutions:
Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 FireWire Audio Interface
Echo AudioFire4 6-Channel Portable FireWire Audio Interface
PreSonus FireStudio Mobile FireWire Audio Interface
I've got enough candidates now, so need to compare and pick the one that suits my needs the best + has the best bang for my buck!

Ok, I think I've looked through all interfaces/soundcards for less then 300 dollars/euro. If you have any suggestions/ notifications about these, please go ahead and tell me.
And please, go ahead and give me some pointers about what to buy and what not. Or go ahead and order them in the way you like/dislike them + for what reasons. 
I got 6 options left here, so I'm pretty close to making a choice I think. 

Because when I know which one I'm going to get, then I can check if I can find a motherboard that goes well with it (Oh, and it also has to work well with Windows 7 x64.)

I'm going to research even more, brb!


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## Dragonfly (Jun 28, 2010)

Ok, last post for today, I found some more monitors and keyboard.

Monitors:
Lot's of monitors.. no idea what to choose, I'll update this later when I've looked up more reviews and such.
KRK RP-8G2

KRK RP6G2 Rokit G2 Powered 2-Way Active Monitor

KRK RP5G2 Rokit G2 Powered 2-Way Active Monitor

Alesis Monitor One MK2 Studio Monitors

Behringer B2031A Truth Active Monitors

Wharfedale DP8.2A Diamond Pro Active Monitor (6.5 in.)

Keyboards:
I don't know much about this, just that I need MIDI.
Now I've been looking at synths but they start at 600, which is too much for me at the moment. So I figured I'll go with a keyboard that feels the velocity which you press the keys down with. But most sub-300 models only have '2 sensitivity levels' ,, so I figured that I'd leave the sensitivity outside for now. But just wondering, isn't it hard to play without velocity difference and then having to add that later on? Or does that go pretty easy?
Alesis Micron 37-Key Analog Modeling Synth (Red one)

M-Audio Oxygen 25 v3 25-Key USB MIDI Keyboard Controller (Little one)

Roland JUNO-G 61-Key Synthesizer Keyboard (Cheap one)

Akai LPK25 Laptop Performance Keyboard (Little cheap one)

Since I want a PC that's tough, I can run a lot of soft synths, so the keyboard doesn't have to be superb, but I'm wondering what I'll need/want in a keyboard.


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## Inazone (Jun 28, 2010)

Instead of commenting on each of those, I'll tell you what I have, as your room setup seems very similar to mine. My PC is older, but I'll include that info anyway.

PC: Intel Pentium 2.2GHz Dual-Core w\ 4GB DDR2 RAM running Vista Home Basic 32
Interface: Focusrite Sapphire Pro 24 
Other Hardware: UAD-1 PCI plug-in card
Monitors: Alesis M1 520 Active *and* M-Audio BX5A monitors (no sub)
DAW: Reaper w\ POD Farm, Amplitube 2 Live and various other plug-ins

I really like my Focusrite interface, but I did strongly consider getting a PCI-based interface instead, as well as the M-Audio Fast Track Ultra for a USB option. I decided that I wanted an external interface that I could use at home or away, and that FireWire would give better performance if I wanted to record 3-4 tracks at once.


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## Dragonfly (Jun 29, 2010)

Ok! So I checked some other equipment and started throwing all the data in OpenOffice's Calc (Excell for you Microsoft Office users.) That way I could make a better comparison and stripe away some options.

Tomorrow I'm going to look up some reviews for the products (to check if it's a good product) and check if they're compatible with the equipment/software I'm going to be using. So I'm going to make some decisions pretty soon, because I started realizing that in this low budget section there won't be THAT much of a difference, as long as it's a good product and suits my needs.

Here's a list of what I've got (I only listed the options I'm still looking at pricings from low to high (in euro)):
*Audio Interfaces (by far the trickiest choice for me!):*
*Tascam US144Mk2*
Price: 165
Connection: USB 2.0
Inputs: 2 XLR inputs, 2 1/4 balanced
Outputs: 4, 96kHz/24-bit
Mic Preamps: 2
Headphone: Headphone out + volume control
S/PDIF: yes
MIDI: yes
Power adapter: no








*M-AUDIO Fast Track Pro*
Price: 179	
Connection: USB	
Inputs: 2 XLR inputs, 2 inserts	
Outputs: 6, 96kHz/24-bit	
Mic Preamps: 2	
Headphone: Headphone out + volume control	
S/PDIF: yes	
MIDI: yes	
Power adapter: yes








*Emu 0404 USB 2.0* 
Price: 200	
Connection: USB 2.0 
Inputs: 2 XLR inputs
Outputs: 2, 192kHz/24-bit	
Mic Preamps: 2	
Headphone: Headphone out + volume control	
S/PDIF: yes	
MIDI: yes	
Power adapter: yes
(is 192kHz over 96kHz usefull?)








*Native Instruments Audio Kontrol 1* 
Price: 249	
Connection: USB	
Input: 1 XLR, 1 TRS (HiZ)	
Outputs: 4, 192kHz/24-bit	
Mic Preamp: 1	
Headphone: Headphone out + volume control	
S/PDIF: no	
MIDI: yes	
Power adapter: no
(This one has a HiZ input which should be for the high freq guitar sounds, others didn't mention they have them..)








*Echo Gina 3G* 
Price: 278	
Connection: PCI	
Inputs: 2 XLR inputs	
Outputs: 6, 100mHz/56-bit	
Mic Preamps: 2	
Headphone: Headphone out + volume control	
S/PDIF: yes	
MIDI: yes	
Power adapter: no
(I still like this one because it's PCI with a breakout box! Best of latency & acceptability - though it's a bit more expensive, is it worth it?) 








*Monitors (prices here are for a pair (2) monitors):*
*Alesis Monitor One MK2* 
Price: 155	
Driver: 6.5	
Passive	
Power: 120w (200w peaks)	
Frequency: 45Hz  20kHz





*KRK Rokit RP5G2* 
Price: 300	
Driver: 5	
Active	
Power: 140w	
Frequency: 49Hz  20kHz
*KRK Rokit RP6G2* 
Price: 350	
Driver: 6	
Active	
Power: 140w	
Frequency: 49Hz  20kHz





Headphone (I still wanted a Audio Technica to add to my collection and this one was recommended, so.. ):
*Audio Technica ATHM40fs *
Price: 79





Microphone (for vocals):
*Studio Projects B1*
Price: 110
(+ shock mount + pop screen/killer)





*MIDI controller:*
*M-audio oxygen 49*
Price: 119








*Roland A500 S*
Price: 145
(This one is made with/for Cakewalk, but will work with other DAW's too, right?)








*M-audio oxygen 61*
Price 154








Software:
Reaper
Steven Slate (maybe Superior 2.0 if I have the cash to spend)



Ok, I've added images, because I know you love those! 
Now, I probably wont have the option of trying any of this equipment out before buying because of the lack of music stores (,, only some small ones who sell specific stuff, could always try out some stuff there - but planning on buying online anyway because of the huge price difference)

Ok, again, comment on what's up here and say why/why not you would pick something.
Currently I got 2 ideas:
-El cheapo (combination of the cheapest options I currently have): Tascam US144Mk2, Alesis Monitor One MK2, Audio Technica ATHM40fs, Studio Projects B1, M-audio oxygen 49.
Price: 630 
-Current preference (might change after reading reviews): Echo Gina 3G, KRK Rokit RP6G2, Audtio Technica ATHM40fs, Studio Projects B1, Roland A500 S
Price: 960

C'mon, ideas, suggestions, whatever pops in your mind that is relevant or has any form of relation with this all is appreciated!


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## Dragonfly (Jun 30, 2010)

Inazone said:


> Instead of commenting on each of those, I'll tell you what I have, as your room setup seems very similar to mine. My PC is older, but I'll include that info anyway.
> 
> PC: Intel Pentium 2.2GHz Dual-Core w\ 4GB DDR2 RAM running Vista Home Basic 32
> Interface: Focusrite Sapphire Pro 24
> ...



I don't really need a portable solution, but those are mostly cheaper. I also only need 2 tracks, though if it has 4 and it's still cheap then it's fine.
I looked up the UAD-1 PCI plug-in card, but they're just VST, but sticked on hardware right? So if I get a really fat processor, I'll be able to run the VST's as software?

Can you tell me a bit more about your monitors since they both have 5" drivers, and I'm curious about those performing in a 3x4m bedroom. (That's 10 by 13 foot.)
Because somebody recommended the 8" drivers to me before, and I've already 'went' with the 6" because of the price, but what about the 5" ?


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## Inazone (Jun 30, 2010)

When I bought the M-Audio BX5A monitors, I compared them to the KRKs (previous version of what you linked) and liked the BX5As better. The price was about the same, and neither brand had a 6" model that I could try out. My band's vocalist went to school for Pro Tools production and is borrowing the monitors to mix at his house, so I bought the Alesis M1 520s for several reasons: small footprint for my limited workspace, EQ controls for adjusting to the room, good results for general music use with smaller 320s on my work/game PC, and price. I don't have space for 6" monitors, and even some 5" models (Mackie in particular" are deeper than the M-Audio or Alesis equivalents.

The UAD card would probably be overkill for you. I bought it because the price was right, and because the card handles the processing of any VSTs it hosts, which I knew would help on a low-end PC like mine. I am still pretty new to using plug-ins (my past recording experience was all on old Cakewalk Pro Audio, which didn't support VSTs) so wanted to experiment as much as possible without bogging down my CPU.

Of all the interfaces you listed, I think the Gina looks like the best choice. I considered E-MU and Tascam, but read numerous reviews that mentioned driver issues, so I went with Focusrite. But my past experiences with Echo products were good.


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## Andii (Jun 30, 2010)

I went through really fast, but some of those interfaces looked like they didn't have XLR ins. You definitely need xlr inputs with 48v phantom power. The Tascam looks good, just check the win7 support with people who aren't tascam .

USB2.0 is really fast. You can have far more than 2 channels going at once. USB2.0 is actually faster than firewire if you plug it into a usb2.0 hub and plug nothing else into that hub. On my Asus motherboard there is a separate hub for the KB and mouse, so I give the interface the whole hub and it's never had a problem keeping up, even recording drums. 

If you build your own pc, go with an AMD cpu. The price to performance ratio is much better. Their 3.0ghz quad core is 140 USD right now.


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## Dragonfly (Jun 30, 2010)

Andii said:


> I went through really fast, but some of those interfaces looked like they didn't have XLR ins. You definitely need xlr inputs with 48v phantom power. The Tascam looks good, just check the win7 support with people who aren't tascam .
> 
> USB2.0 is really fast. You can have far more than 2 channels going at once. USB2.0 is actually faster than firewire if you plug it into a usb2.0 hub and plug nothing else into that hub. On my Asus motherboard there is a separate hub for the KB and mouse, so I give the interface the whole hub and it's never had a problem keeping up, even recording drums.
> 
> If you build your own pc, go with an AMD cpu. The price to performance ratio is much better. Their 3.0ghz quad core is 140 USD right now.



The Tascam has seperate Mic and Guitar, the other ones all have the Mic + Guitar all in a universal plug (which accepts 3pin XLR + 1/4" line/guitar) 
(I hope I'm getting this right, else I'm a complete douche  .. oh wait, I already.. nvm )

But I'm probably going with that Tascam, it's a cheap starting model for me, has all I need, the only thing is that it runs on USB 2.0 which I'm a bit afraid of at first (because it speed could be lower + power supply isn't the same at all times, it varies.) , but I'm going cheap now, and upgrade if I need more, I herd people getting some nice sound out of it. So I'm going to check if it's compatible with win 7.

Good point on the AMD's btw, I totally forgot about them, I'll look into some comparisons.

They all have 48v phantom power, so that's fine 2, but does phantom power immediately mean it has a mic preamp? (I'm asking here: "phantom power=mic preamp"?)


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## Dragonfly (Jun 30, 2010)

Inazone said:


> When I bought the M-Audio BX5A monitors, I compared them to the KRKs (previous version of what you linked) and liked the BX5As better. The price was about the same, and neither brand had a 6" model that I could try out. My band's vocalist went to school for Pro Tools production and is borrowing the monitors to mix at his house, so I bought the Alesis M1 520s for several reasons: small footprint for my limited workspace, EQ controls for adjusting to the room, good results for general music use with smaller 320s on my work/game PC, and price. I don't have space for 6" monitors, and even some 5" models (Mackie in particular" are deeper than the M-Audio or Alesis equivalents.
> 
> The UAD card would probably be overkill for you. I bought it because the price was right, and because the card handles the processing of any VSTs it hosts, which I knew would help on a low-end PC like mine. I am still pretty new to using plug-ins (my past recording experience was all on old Cakewalk Pro Audio, which didn't support VSTs) so wanted to experiment as much as possible without bogging down my CPU.
> 
> Of all the interfaces you listed, I think the Gina looks like the best choice. I considered E-MU and Tascam, but read numerous reviews that mentioned driver issues, so I went with Focusrite. But my past experiences with Echo products were good.


Thanks for clarifying the UAD card part. My suspicions were right. 

I'm still dubbing about the monitors, whether I should go active or passive, does anyone have comments/thoughts about this? But since I have a bigger space (guessing from you mentioning that the 6" are too large to put somewhere), I'm thinking I might need some 6" to bring the sound throughout the room?

And I like the idea of getting the Gina it's just that it's 120 euro more expensive, which makes me wonder: "Do I get that much more for that 120 euro?" (I earn a bit more then 5 euro/hour (I don't get paid enough ).. so that's 60 hours of work for me,, that's one-and-a-half-week of work , so will I really get something more for that time spend working?) 
It does have 56 bit though.. don't see any use for that, but hey 

But like mentioned above, I will check out about the drivers and take into consideration what you mentioned. Because if I can choose between:
- a product that might work/ might not work, you'll have to be lucky or fondle the drivers
vs
- a product that works right out of the box without any fondling for 120 euro more
In that scenario, I'll choose the latter (am I using this word correct?  I'm experimenting with my English vocabulary & grammar.)
(If used wrong, I mean that I'll take the pricey one that WORKS!)

Again, thank you for your replies, it so much easier to think stuff over when you get responses from others! I love you guys! 


So, to highlight the question(s) between this wall of text:

*Active VS Passive monitors?* (And some question about your expirience with Tascam.)


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## Dragonfly (Jun 30, 2010)

I did a google search and came up with the following:

Tascam US144 MK2 USB 2.0 Audio/MIDI Interface
(under reviews)


> This unit was a complete waste of time - it\'s going back tomorrow. I attempted to use it on a brand new laptop with Windows7. Nothing but lame excuses and finger pointing from Tascam and Steinberg support. Doesn\'t work with Windows 7, despite their claims to the contrary.



So that doesn't sound too good. Then again, this was posted on january 29, 2010

When I check the Tascam site it has (under recourses for this product):
US-122mkII & US-144mkII Windows Drivers: 
- Windows 7/Vista/XP driver ver 2.01 (64-bit) (download)
- Windows XP/Vista driver ver 2.00 (64-bit) for US-122mkII and US-144mkII (download)
- Windows 7/Vista/XP driver ver 2.00 (32-bit) for US-122mkII and US-144mkII (download)
- Windows XP/Vista driver ver 1.14 (64-bit) for US-122mkII and US-144mkII (download)
- Windows XP/Vista driver ver 1.14 (32-bit) for US-122mkII and US-144mkII (download)

So, I'm guessing from this, that when Tascam claimed it had Windows 7 support, the drivers were at ver 2.00, that's when the guy above bought it and had a disfunctioning product with his brand new Windows 64-bit loaded laptop. And after that (but I don't know where in time), they made a 2.01 driver for the 64-bit Windows' 

I guess it's a good sign to note that there are different versions, which means they DO work on drivers and not just make on when the product releases and leave it at that, what do you guys think?

EDIT:
Checked out the REAPER forums for info about the Tascam US144 (or US122, which is almost the same model.. has the same driver though)
In a sticky about soundcards working with REAPER, the Tascam US122 shows up multiple times (one or two times with minor problems)

Then I found another post about the US144 not working on Vista 64-bit with 64-bit drivers in Reaper 32-bit (that way they could run some plugins.)
But that's another old post (a year old to be precise) where they mention drivers v1.12
+ that's about vista and not about Windows 7, come to think of it, the topic ended with a post mentioning that Windows 7 64-bit does just fine with the US144. 
So that's a good thing.
That means, they made a few drivers in a year time (1.12 a year ago, between there they've made AT LEAST 1.14 & 2.00, and now they have 2.01) - so they're taking care of there products I guess!

Tascam seems like a good company, I'm 90% sure I'm going to buy that one! (Tascam US144)

EDITEDIT:

Read through some more outdated negative responses because of bad drivers. Current responses seem to be fine.
Somebody mentioned a clicking when playing guitar, but put a EDIT below mentioning you have to set it on 'guitar' (so he probably forgot to switch it to guitar OR you'll notice some clicking when on guitar mode.. haven't heard this on other sources)
Most sources mention that the product works fine with Windows 7 64-bit and some random DAW's.

*And somebody mentions that the Tascam has 12ms latency on the lowest setting... that seems like a lot to me?*
I mean, what will happen when I plug my guitar in, put some virtual amps/impulses on it and play some stuff through my monitors, does that double the load on the Tascam, will it make the latency even higher?
Can somebody say something about this, getting a bit afraid here.  (confused, I should say!)


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## Dragonfly (Jun 30, 2010)

(Damn, I'm getting way too less sleep, need to get this stuff figured out soon or I'll end up like an insomniac.)

Monitors, 

Like mentioned 4 posts above I'm looking at the:

Alesis Monitor One MK2 (passive 6.5" 120w (200w peaks))

KRK Rokit RPG5G2 (active 5" 140w biamped)

KRK Rokit RPG6G2 (active 6" 140w biamped)


So I was hanging a bit towards the KRK's (because they got recommended to me first and they appealed to me in some way, 
Then I started asking myself the difference between actives and passive.
I told myself, well active is powered, so it's advantage is..! Well,, uh...
.. advantage? Hmm, I don't know. Google-time!

Then I found two disturbing links (disturbing from an low-budget-active-amp-buyer-point-of-view):
Q. Should I opt for active or passive monitors?
Compare/Contrast: Active vs. Passive Monitors... - Gearslutz.com

Both end up saying that low budget actives are just gimmicks, and that they are nowhere near the real actives, because:
- they are biamped
- they have a low price, so they have a crappy amp
- they can't be upgraded because you'll need to replace drivers + amp (won't be upgrading parts at this price-range though.. )
Though both posts are from a few years ago, I'm starting to wonder whether I really need active monitors?

So, I jumped back to the cheaper options: the Alesis Monitor One MK2. Lot's of positive reviews on it. It has a L and R input and that's enough for me! (And it's 150-200 cheaper then the KRK's - but for that ammount of money it will be notable in sound right? .. but enough difference to match 150-200 euro?)
Here a bad comment on the Alesis Monitor One MK2: "These monitors sound good for the price but are not 100% accurate for mixing! Sure... your recordings will sound great in the studio but the real test lies in how good the mix sounds when played on other systems outside the studio! Good mids and nice high end but the lower frequencies are not at all accurate. What you end up with is a great sounding cd on the system it was recorded on but real BOOMY mixes elsewhere! These monitors are excellent when used as a reference but spend the extra money and get a pair of REAL STUDIO MONITORS if you want truly accurate mixes!!"
Now, I guess that for this price you can expect such thing, but will I be able to work with it?

*But I need to know, do I need a separate amp with passive monitors?* It's going to be hooked up to my Tascam US144 USB 2.0 audio interface.
Does monitoring through USB go well? (I'm still sketchy about USB.. in my mind, USB is used for simple things: keyboard, mouse, crappy MIDI keyboard.. I've never worked with something heavy that relies on USB.)

/USB rant
Tag, your turn! Go awnser my questions and help me out a bit. 
I'll summarize what I've got tomorrow. 

Ps. I also looked up the AMD vs Intel stuff atm, but I'm probably going with a cheap Intel Core I7, it beats AMD Phenom II (in speeds, specifically music and audio stuff) plus gives me some extra freedom in hardware.
Now I just have to look up a nice Asus (or maybe Gigabyte) motherboard and some RAM to put in them slots. .. and a HD or 2.. and a DVD drive/burner.. and a monitor.. a case .. power supply,, bloody hell, still a lot of stuff to figure out! Still lots of work to do.


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## Ben.Last (Jul 1, 2010)

Lots of interesting info in this thread. So, this is me commenting so I'm subscribed to it


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## Dragonfly (Jul 1, 2010)

Lern2swim said:


> Lots of interesting info in this thread. So, this is me commenting so I'm subscribed to it



Hey! that's not helping me!  (If you want REALLY interesting info, check out: Tweak's Guide to the Home and Project Studio <-- on the left of that page you have an index with LOT's of chapters, I'm reading it all through page by page and it's still interesting and not boring! (this is coming from someone who doesn't read very often, so that's saying a lot.))

Ah well, maybe someone should make a sticky with useful sites like tweakheadz.com and explanation of all the hardware and inputs and impedances and.. and.
But first I want my recording rig done, so please view the last 3 posts of Page 1 of this thread.


*Basically what I really want to know at the moment is whether I need an amp for passive monitors (when plugged into the Tascam), or not.* If someone can awnser me that then I'm almost done with getting it all together (just the PC parts then - but I can start ordering the audio interface + monitors)

And cables? Do monitors come with cables or do I need to buy them myself? And I can just use two 1/4" cables for L and R, or do I need some special cable that I don't know shit about (very unlikely because of all the reading I've done.


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## Inazone (Jul 1, 2010)

Your interface will NOT provide power to passive monitors - you will need a separate power amp. GearSlutz has a lot of useful information, but most of the people there are going for higher-end gear and are very critical of anything that isn't considered professional grade. Although it's important to have good monitors, running good monitors through a budget USB interface isn't going to make the most of those monitors. Remember, you can always listen to your mixes somewhere else - home stereo, car stereo, in another studio, or on rented monitors - but the interface will make an impact on the recording quality. In my opinion, you'd benefit more from a slightly nicer interface now, and maybe better monitors sometime in the future.

Back to the passive vs. active question, unless you have a professional studio and can only get *perfect* results with a certain type of passive monitor, you're better (in my opinion, considering your budget) to go with active monitors. Although I didn't care for the KRKs myself when I tried them out, you might like them, and you might benefit from the 6" model. My issue is not with room size, but with actual desktop space, as my computer is in a corner and I don't have enough depth for some of the larger monitors; M-Audio BX5As just barely fit, and the Alesis 520s were more "comfortable" in the space I have available.

Part of the reason I opted for the interface I did (Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 DSP) is that, in addition to its other features, it has "virtual monitoring" through headphones that can emulate different types of monitors in a variety of room sizes. Also, the Alesis monitors and a number of other brands have some type of EQ functions built right into the monitors to compensate for any inaccuracies you find in your mixes due to the room you're monitoring in. This is usually in the form of high- and low-pass filter switches, but in some cases (I think) is an actual 3-band EQ control right on the monitor.


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## Dragonfly (Jul 1, 2010)

Ok, damnit!
I just realized that I need a power amp when I use passive speakers.

So, when I was looking at an Alesis power amp (250w x2), it was 255 euro. 
255 (power amp) + 150 (monitors) = 400
KRK Rokit RP6g2 = 350.

That way, the Rokits would still be cheaper. I could even pick the RP5's for 300 and check out there subwoofer later on.. (I can't add a subwoofer with the Tascam)
Yeah, I could probably find a cheaper power amp,.. but I didn't think of this before (I'm an idiot!)

So, currently I'm leaning towards the KRK Rokit's again. - 5" or 6"

EDIT: Inazone beat me to it! Yeah, I read a lot of stuff at gearslutz (came there through googling)

Hmm, deskspace is not really a problem.. and I'm getting what you're saying about getting the actives: it's a lot easier (and cheaper I guess?) then getting passives with a seperate power amp.

But you're making me doubt about the Tascam interface.. could I be better of getting the Echo Gina, or a Firewire solution around the same price?


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## Inazone (Jul 1, 2010)

My thought on the passive monitors and power amp is that now you are considering a cheap power amp AND passive monitors that aren't any better than the active monitors you already looked at. Honestly, you aren't going to see any major improvements in monitor quality until you double your price range. Better (again, in my opinion) to look for additional features in the current price range, because until you spend a lot more money (relative to your entire hardware investment) you're still dealing with Chinese-built monitors that don't vary much from one another except in minor features. At that point, you could start considering other brands, such as Behringer and Samson, because there just isn't much difference in the construction or basic functions.

Back to the interface, consider that different brands get praised or criticized for specific components. Although I bought my Focusrite for reasons already stated, I first became aware of them because numerous reviews gave high marks for the onboard mic preamps compared to other small interfaces. Echo products tend to get good reviews because of the analog/digital converters (again, in this price range) and brands like Mackie and Digidesign are simply industry standards. Tascam earned its reputation with tape-based gear, but to be honest, I've never read any especially stellar reviews of their budget computer interfaces. They are small, seem to be limited, and don't offer anything unique.

For performance, the Gina would be best. For additional functionality at a modest price, I'd look at Focusrite and M-Audio. Don't rule out Line 6 either, if you stick with USB. Alesis and Phonic also make some affordable interfaces that have actual faders/knobs and additional channels if you think you'll need to expand, but not necessarily better overall construction.


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## Dragonfly (Jul 1, 2010)

Inazone said:


> My thought on the passive monitors and power amp is that now you are considering a cheap power amp AND passive monitors that aren't any better than the active monitors you already looked at. Honestly, you aren't going to see any major improvements in monitor quality until you double your price range. Better (again, in my opinion) to look for additional features in the current price range, because until you spend a lot more money (relative to your entire hardware investment) you're still dealing with Chinese-built monitors that don't vary much from one another except in minor features. At that point, you could start considering other brands, such as Behringer and Samson, because there just isn't much difference in the construction or basic functions.


Yeah, that was my guess, too, low-budget stuff doesn't sound that much different from each other, so I'm going for the KRK active ones, they don't have to trouble of getting a power amp. (And still dubbing between the 5" and 6".. I need to hear some stuff - but traveling to a music store which HAS this kind of stuff is like traveling to China for me!)
*Or does anybody else have some cheap active monitors to recommend?* (That are still use-able and functional off course.) 


> For performance, the Gina would be best. For additional functionality at a modest price, I'd look at Focusrite and M-Audio. Don't rule out Line 6 either, if you stick with USB. Alesis and Phonic also make some affordable interfaces that have actual faders/knobs and additional channels if you think you'll need to expand, but not necessarily better overall construction.


Ok, you got me doubting again, because I looked up the Saffire pro 24 again and noticed it's a lot cheaper than I thought! But that's because the idiot me was looking at the saffire pro 24 DSP before that.. (which is 75 euro more expensive - which adds something -> DSP)

EDIT: I immediately noticed you ARE talking about the DSP version.
Ok, I'm going to sum up the options once more what I'm looking at now:

Tascam US 144
Price: 165

Echo Gina 3G
Price: 278

Saffire pro 24
Price: 275

Saffire pro 24 DSP
Price: 349

They all have what I need (Mic input/Guitar input/Mic preamp/MIDI/headphone out/ ..)
Now, I'm tend to go a bit more to the Echo Gina 3G because it's a PCI card with a breakout box! - the Tascam is still an option when I'm going on the cheap. But when I'm considering the price range of the Gina, then I have to consider products in that price range.
Now you recommended the Saffire pro 24 DSP because you own it.
I can't find any comparisons online VS the Echo Gina, so maybe someone here can help me: which one is better?
Now I can't imagine on being better on the MIDI parts,, because that's just MIDI. So the performance is displayed in
- Latency
- Recording (DAC's)
- Microphone preamp
- Displaying sound
- ..
(I can't think of more here.)

Now that Saffire pro 24 is a bit cheaper then the Echo Gina, but it's no PCI so I'm going for the Gina there. But I'm curious about the Saffire pro 24 DSP vs the Echo Gina 3g. Hopefully somebody (maybe somebody else that hasn't responded yet) can say something about this. (?)
The Saffire pro 24 DSP is 75 euro more. (which at that price is an increase of 33% more cost.)
Is the performance worth it? Because it'll probably lose when it comes to latency (though I only have to record 1 track at a time, VST's might make the difference?)
What about the DAC's, my guess is that at this price range the DAC's won't differ that much.
Microphone preamp? They all say they have a HIGH QUALITY one that has one thousands of awards! .. 
And the display of sound can't be that different at this price range right? Considering that the monitors will have a bit of a finger in this too.

So what kind of functionality does the Saffire pro 24 DSP offer to make it more interesting? Or does it really have better DAC's and stuff? 
I know you talked about the virtual headphone thing, but I don't see an application for this right away, I'll google some stuff about it, but maybe you can put it in a context and give an example.

Inazone, thanks a lot for the time and text you're putting into this thread to help me out, I really appreciate it! 

EDIT: bonus question. All these interfaces have random amount of outputs, but how do you tell which is for Left and which for Right?


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## Inazone (Jul 2, 2010)

Heh, me again! Since I've never used the Gina specifically, I can't comment on how it would stack up to the Saffire. As with my decision to buy the UAD card for plug-ins, the additional money for the Saffire DSP went along with the ongoing quest to get more comfortable with various features *and* be able to go "outside the box" with some functions. You'd have to compare specs to see if the non-DSP version includes the VRM (virtual monitoring) of the DSP version, as it seems like a pretty valuable feature to me after experimenting with it. However, it may not be worth the extra expense to you.

As far as the left and right outputs are concerned, those can be assigned via software.


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## Dragonfly (Jul 2, 2010)

Inazone said:


> Heh, me again! Since I've never used the Gina specifically, I can't comment on how it would stack up to the Saffire. As with my decision to buy the UAD card for plug-ins, the additional money for the Saffire DSP went along with the ongoing quest to get more comfortable with various features *and* be able to go "outside the box" with some functions. You'd have to compare specs to see if the non-DSP version includes the VRM (virtual monitoring) of the DSP version, as it seems like a pretty valuable feature to me after experimenting with it. However, it may not be worth the extra expense to you.



Hmm, I hope you're not saying that it was MY plan to get an UAD card? Because the CPU should be good enough for software VST's.

Non-DSP saffire doesn't have the VRM. So, that saying, the non-DSP version is a bit cheaper then the Gina, but it's not PCI.
I'll try to check out some more reviews of these two. And I'm gonna check how much money the PC would cost. Cause if it's too much I might have to go back to the Tascam US144. (Going to work now so I can afford this stuff, bye!)


*Could software do VRM?*

EDIT:
I compared the Focusrite Saffire pro 24 DSP, (and NON-DSP) with the Echo Gina 3G AND the Echo Audiofire 4.
(I recently came across the Audiofire 4 and it has the same specs as the Gina, but it's firewire connected like the Saffire.)

So below here are some compared specs between the Focusrites and the Echo's (because the DPS and non-DSP version have the same hardware, and the Audiofire and Gina 2)
Both company's have a list of detailed specs.
*Dynamic range:* (Echo has a higher overall Dynamic range.)
Echo: 110dB (input) and 114dB (output) and 112dB (Mic preamp A/D input)
Saffire: 106.5dB (input) and 105dB (output) and 106dB (Mic preamp A/D input)
*Frequency response:* (Echo has a higher overall Frequency response)
Echo: 10Hz-20kHz
Saffire: 20Hz-20kHz
*THD+n* (Saffire has a lower THD, though below 1% should be inaudible - according to Wikipedia) 
Echo: <0.002% (input, output, mic preamp, instrument)
Saffire: <0.001% (input, output, mic preamp) <0.0015% (instrument)
*S/PDIF sample rates* (more = better? Echo has more)
Echo: 32kHz - 96kHz
Saffire: 44.1kHz - 96kHz
*ADAT sample rates* (more = better? Saffire has more)
Echo: 44.1kHz, 49kHz
Saffire: 44.1kHz - 96kHz
*Mic preamps EIN* (lower should be better, so Echo has a slight advantage with their "studio perfomance preamps" over Saffire's "award winning preamps" .. but there probably are other factors)
Echo: -128dBu
Saffire: >125dB

All in all, not much difference. So again, lots of choice, but I'm gonna be harsh this time and I DON'T like the 1/8" headphone output on the Audiofire 4, so I'm not going to take that one. Back to the Saffire pro 24 (DPS and NON DSP) and the Gina 3G.
I also must add that Focusrite has designers that want to make look things a bit more professional, which they did well in comparison to Echo.. but the specs are still almost the same. Now I don't care about looks that much. But I DO care about that one huge difference: PCI vs FireWire (oh, and VRM does make a bit of difference.)

I found a site which has some B-stock (returned products), they have the same return policy as zzounds (30-day,) and people didn't like some items, and coincidental they have the Saffire pro 24 DSP and the Echo Gina 3G which makes pricing as followed:
Saffire pro 24: 275
Saffire pro 24 DSP: 319 (returned - this makes the DSP version a bit more attractive!)
Gina 3G: 256 (returned - again, this is also a lot cheaper!)
The returned ones still have full warranty + original boxes. And if I don't like them as well I can always send them back within 30 days. (Though it's shipped from Germany, so it cost some shipping, so I'm not going to buy them just to try them out. I want to buy the right one right away.)

If I have to cut on the budget for Audio Interfaces I can always go back to the Tascam US144 or the FOCUSRITE SAFFIRE 6 USB (I recently found this one, same functionality as the Tascam one - about the same price 2.)

Going to check out PC parts now.


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## Dragonfly (Jul 3, 2010)

Ok, image first to get your attention:





I've looked a bit for a PC for under 1000.
- Tough processor. (2.66gHz Hexacore), even though the Core i7 920 scores better on a lot of tests, REAPER is said to be optimalized very well for multicores. So REAPER would benefit a lot from the hexacore compared to the quadcore (with HT.) The Core i7 920 would be a bit more future proof though with the option of triple channel memory.

- Enough DDR3 memory, for this it's 8gb in dual channel. GeIL had a lot of possitive reviews.

- Mobo with at least 1 PCI slot, a few USB 2.0 ports, a Firewire 400 port.

- I've looked at putting some HD's in RAID 10, but that's too expensive, so I'm going with a 1.5tb drive for my OS plus data backup. and a 1tb drive for direct recording (a fast drive.)

- I haven't though about the case and such, but it HAS to be coolable with some big (and SILENT!!) fans. That's why I added a case, some fans and a CPU cooler, just to get an idea of the price.

- I don't know how big the PSU must be.. but this one has to be silent too, so no little 40mm fans in there but a big 120mm fan on top!

- And a big screen so I can see what I'm doing when playing guitar from a distance. And I noticed that at 23" the screens get a 1900x1080 resolution, and a bigger resolution is always nice.

Ideas, comments, suggestions, all welcome. I'm by no means a computer expert, but I know what everything does and stuff.

(+ this is also a BUMP for my previously asked questions about the audio interfaces)


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## Dragonfly (Jul 4, 2010)

Ok, this relationship isn't going to work if you don't pay attention to me!!
(Wow, I'm getting weirder every day.. )

Again: Ok, time for the big roundup.
I've got a total of 2.000 euro's spend on equipment, I'm going to list this below:

Audio Interface:
*Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 DSP* (dude,, you convinced me, VRM sounds cool + having a monitor volume control + mute is something I really want ourside the software! + some asian dude on youtube sounded awesome with it )

Monitors:
*KRK Rokit RP5 G2* . small ones, I'll get a subwoofer later when needed. Will monitor the lowend on my headphones for now!

Headphones:
*Audio Technica ATHM40FS* Iiiiii wantttt Audio Technicaaa (collecting headphones..)

MIDI controller:
*M-audio Oxygen 61* Yeah, I want the big one! the 49 seemed ok at first, but I don't want to fiddle around in the software too much when I can just as easily play something an octave higher/lower. + I have the space.

Computer:
*AMD Phenom II X6 1055T* 2.8gHz hexacore; Price/performance very good. REAPER is optimized to utilize multiple cores, so that's awesome. Was thinking about the Core i7 920 at first. But it's a bit more pricy + it needs a pricy motherboard + pricy triple channel memory. Though it IS a bit more future proof.. (does anyone have to say something useful about this? cause I'm like 10% doubting my choice..)
*Asus M4A785TD-V EVO* Firewire 400 connector! (+ the other specs needed.)
*GeIL GV34GB1333C9DC* Because Geil is Dutch for horny  , nah, it's great memory at a good price. (2x2gb) (per kit.. that's 4gb memory, will I need 8gb?)
*Fractal Design Define R2 case *with a lot of *silent Scythe fans *(and a *Scythe CPU cooler*) in it. This is a sound dampening designed case which should be silent. I put some low speed silent fans in there for the needed airflow because of the heat the component will produce.
*2x Samsung Spinpoint F3 1TB* So that's 2TB of HD-space for now. 7200RPM.
*Club3D HD5770* Videocard to do a little gaming and watching movies and stuff (you know what I mean by movies and stuff right.. don't ya .. ) (I'm kidding! )
*Acer V233Habd* 23" screen, because 22" isn't big enough!  (well.. actually 24" was too expensive for me. )
*Other* DRD+/-RW, Wireless network adepter thingy and a SurgeMaster to protect my valuable stuff! (at least from too much power.. )


Wishlist (this will be about 1000 euro's spend over the next few years..):
Good starting microphones (Studio Projects B1, Shure 57)
More Headphones!
Active subwoofer to help me with some detailed lowend
More memory (that's when I'm going with the 4gb option.)
More HDD's (got room for 6 on the MOBO so.... )
Ergonomic mouse + keyboard (all the sitting behind computer researching stuff + playing music (both for lots of hours) is having a toll on my arms, shoulders, hands, fingers, etc.)
Decibel meter (I just want one!  )


This all isn't final currently I'm trying to make some deals with the shops I'm buying my stuff from. So if you have any:
- suggestions
- ideas
- questions
- story's
- experiences
- other..
Then please share!!

Also, if you have questions regarding the stuff I mentioned above for your OWN computer / home recording studio - then go ahead and ask because I've researched A LOT about these products + all products and company's (and Dutch web shops) in this price range!

Sorry for not adding a lot of images this time.. I know you don't like text a lot (that's why you don't reply to me right..?  )
That's why I've added a lot of smilies while typing, you know what? Because I like you that much I'll add some more smilies here:


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## Andii (Jul 4, 2010)

I think you should go with 8s. 5s will have you not knowing what is going on in the lows and adding a sub might have you going in the other direction and not knowing what is going on. Your mixes could have too much bass with 5s and too little when using subs. 

Get some 8s and then you won't have to get the subs once you get used to them and understand how everything will translate.


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## Dragonfly (Jul 5, 2010)

Andii said:


> I think you should go with 8s. 5s will have you not knowing what is going on in the lows and adding a sub might have you going in the other direction and not knowing what is going on. Your mixes could have too much bass with 5s and too little when using subs.
> 
> Get some 8s and then you won't have to get the subs once you get used to them and understand how everything will translate.



They're like 100 euro more per monitor.. so it adds another 200, I like the idea of getting those.. but I don't think I have the money for that.

+ is there a real comparison somewhere between those 2? (I mean,, the difference can't be THAT big.. it's only a larger driver.. )
Did someone measure the response for each frequency somewhere?

Then again, you got me doubting, so I'll travel far away to listen to some of them ..
Thank you for your input, but it would be nice if this could be backed up with facts and not only opinions - because on other places I hear adding a sub-woofer (like the KRK K10 active subwoofer), is just fine.. but they don't back it up with proof aswell~ tricky subject.. tricky..


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## Dragonfly (Jul 5, 2010)

BUMP and now I'm gonna take a DUMP (no that's not true.. even though it rhymes.) 

But I commented on a lot of threads and I thought I could get some help too.

Check 2 posts up for what I'm planning on buying, though plans might chance and I might go fore and Core i7 setup after all because it's more future-proof.
+ Can people tell me something about there RECORDING-computer? (how much RAM (if you have 8gb or more, show screenshots of your task manager that you're using it  - what kind of CPU, etc..)
But I'm less sure about all the Audio stuff. So help me out on that one! What can you tell me about the stuff in my list?

Just comment on whatever you can about that setup, every bit of information helps! Thank you! 

Oh, and what about these microphones for vocals:
Studio Projects B1, Shure 57 - I know they aren't the most expensive ones, but they should have a good price/performance ratio. And I'm aiming for PTH like vocals (I'm a male if you didn't know.. I'm telling that because I noticed a lot of microphones are specified as 'male' or 'female' (in reviews..) .. now don't worry!! If you're a guy and you like me (or a lesbian girl), we still could have 'jam' if you know what I mean  - I'm such a retard,, please ignore the last sentences and just comment on my shopping list.. PLEASE you'll really help me and I'll love you forever! )


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## Andii (Jul 5, 2010)

The condenser will work nicely. 

Some people use the sm58 for vocals too. It's pretty much the go to dynamic if you wish to go that route.


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## Dragonfly (Jul 7, 2010)

I'm going to check out the 5" vs 8" monitors this friday!

I'm going with the Core i7 920 and some triple channel memory. Got my eye on some used computers!

Mic. will be the Studio Projects B1 (when I get a mic, don't need one at first)

I also contacted a store if I could get some discount when buying multiple items going over 1.000 euro. And if I could send him the items I want, then he could look at it. So I need to know if I'm going with the 5" or 8" KRK's!

Any more suggestions/comments on my shopping list?



Dragonfly said:


> Again: Ok, time for the big roundup.
> I've got a total of 2.000 euro's spend on equipment, I'm going to list this below:
> 
> Audio Interface:
> ...


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## rectifryer (Jul 7, 2010)

Well I built a thuban 1055t processor computer the week they came out and its pretty fucking epic. They can overclock to 4.0ghz on air with a nice zalman cooler. 

I use adobe master suite cs4 on my cpu and these fucking programs load instantly even off a platter hard drive.

I reccommend finding a decently priced solid state sata3(NOT sata 3gb/s, thats sata2) hard drive to put all your programs on and a large disk drive to put all your projects on. 

The ram, read up on latency for the ram. That matters. 4gbs is fine if you dont have the money for everything now. 



USB 3 is out and its fucking amazing. Find products for that.

Currently ASUS is offering the best am3 boards as far as OCing goes. I have the MSI board and you cant raise the FSB multiplyer up enough to take advantage of what a thuban can really do. 

As far as sound cars go, I hate my m audio fast track. The drivers are horrible.

The 5850 video cards are a better choice. If you go to tomshardware.com, you will find more information than you can deal with regarding why. I am running one right now with crisis warhead maxed out.


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## Dragonfly (Jul 9, 2010)

Ok, I found some cheap used PC's which meet my requirements.

Back to audio stuff, one question here:

*KRK rokit RP5 (x2) + KRK 10(sub)*

OR

*KRK rokit RP 8 (x2)*

I don't have the chance to listen to them anywhere.. :+ The nearest place is somewhere in Germany.. 

If you have other monitor setups in this price range to recommend, go ahead.
I haven't got real monitors, so I haven't got a comparison and I'm not used to anything yet.

For listening I'm mostly into a lot of prog/experimental/avant-garde metal (UneXpecT, Rolo Tomassi, Atrox, BTBAM, PTH, IWABO, SikTh, Gojira, Otep, whateverzz..., etc... )
I'm NOT going to mix (or even listen .. ;p ) any R&B, or Hip Hop stuff, dance/rave & rock music is something I put on from time to time.

I'm mentioning because of following some Mackie VS KRK debates in which people tend to prefer the Mackie for techno and drum & bass. - and that's just not me.
So, recommendations?

_I know the RP6 are also in between,,_ but I feel like it's a waste to add a subwoofer there and that the low-end just isn't enough.
The RP8's seem to have big enough drivers for some good low-end + it will always be in stereo!
The RP5's seem to have not that much low-end so they'll need a subwoofer. This might give a superb low-end, but it's in mono (because I'm not buying 2 subwoofers!)


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## Dragonfly (Jul 9, 2010)

OOOORRR the *Yamaha HS80M* - people mentioning this one is 'better' then the KRK RP 8 (and it's a little bit cheaper)


And what about 2.1 monitoring sets VS the 2 near field monitors?

Example (this one's in a bit more expensive then 2x 8" and a bit cheaper then the 2x 5" + 10" KRK's):
*ESI SW10K EXPERIENCE
2x ESI NEAR05*

Or maybe: *BLUE SKY EXO2*
? any ideas?

I made a post below to sum up what I've found (again) so far... it's a clean posts.. not that much text so please. read that and try to help me out, because I don't have the options of checking the speakers out. Thank you!


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## Dragonfly (Jul 9, 2010)

The options:
(The ones with bold in it are up high on my list of interest.)

2 monitors:

KRK Rokit *RP 8* (8") 500 euro
KRK Rokit *RP 6* (6") 400 euro
Yamaha *HS80M* (8") 475 euro
ADAM *A3X* (5") 400 euro
ADAM *A5 Klavier* (5.5") 500 euro
ADAM *A5 Pro* (5.5") 525 euro
JBL LSR 2325P (5") 400 euro
M-AUDIO STUDIOPHILE *BX8A D*ELUXE (8") 300 euro
BEHRINGER B3030A TRUTH (6.5") 300 euro
ALESIS M1 ACTIV MK2 (6.5") 300 euro
ESI NEAR08 EXPERIENCE (8") 300 euro
SAMSON RESOLV A8 (8") 300 euro
SAMSON RUBICON R5A (5") 300 euro
SAMSON RUBICON R6A (6") 300 euro
BEHRINGER B2031A TRUTH (8") 325 euro
PRODIPE PRO 8 ACTIVE STUDIOMONITOR (8") 350 euro
BEHRINGER *B3031A* (8") 350 euro
TANNOY REVEAL *AKTIV 5A* (5") 350 euro
SAMSON RUBICON R8A (8") 400 euro



Single subwoofers (to be added later or I should pick out some cheaper monitors):

SAMSON RESOLV SUB 120A SUBWOOFER (10") 175 euro
FOSTEX PM-0.5-SUB MKII (10") 275 euro
PRODIPE PRO 10S ACTIVE SUBWOOFER (10") 300 euro
SAMSON RUBICON R10S (10") 300 euro



2 monitors + subwoofer:

KRK Rokit *RP 5* + KRK *10S* (5" + 10") 300 + 350 = 650 euro (too expensive for now, will add the subwoofer later.)
KRK Rokit *RP 6* + KRK *10S* (6" + 10") 400 + 350 = 750 euro (too expensive for now, will add the subwoofer later.)
ESI *Near05 C*lassic + ESI *SW10K E*xperience (5" + 10") 450 euro
ESI *Near04 C*lassic + ESI *SW10K E*xperience (4" + 10") 100 + 300 = 400 euro
ESI *Near08 C*lassic + ESI *SW10K E*xperience (8" + 10") 175 + 300 = 475 euro
ESI *Near05 E*xperience + ESI *SW10K E*xperience (5" + 10") 200 + 300 = 500 euro
BLUE SKY EXO2 (4" + 8") 450 euro
FOSTEX *PM-0.5-SUB BUNDLE (PM 05)* (5" + 10") 550 euro


_I'm looking for the best price/performance ratio for mostly metal music on the playback._
(Does a bigger driver for the monitor still make a big difference when hooked up with a 10" subwoofer?)
The ESI speakers are a bit less favored then the KRK's in reviews, but they are a bit cheaper, so easily set up with a subwoofer.
I added some more company's. If you don't know anything about the specific speaker, please comment on the price/performance ratio for another product of the company. I've currently listed ALL the options within my price range from the shop I'm ordering my stuff from, with some luck I'll get a nice discount. There IS a 30-day return policy, but I'd rather get the stuff I want the first time. And I want the best price/performance ratio for metal music on the playback.
Suggestions, ideas, comments?


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## Dragonfly (Jul 10, 2010)

Check the post above.. if all the information is too much for you then some simple questions:

Question 1)
2 monitors OR 2 monitors + a subwoofer (2.1 setup)


Question 2)
Which company's have the best price/performance ratio WHEN IT COMES TO MONITORS and which ones the worst + comment on experiences with these company's:
KRK
Yamaha
ADAM
ESI
JBL
M-audio
Behringer
Alesis
Samson
Prodipe
Tannoy
Blue Sky
Fostex


Thanks, + if you have some more time, check out the post above and give me your ideas on the 'best' pick.


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## Dragonfly (Jul 12, 2010)

Just little bump, I'll add the info I was intended to put here after work, because I have to go now.

I did some looking at the brands, and skipped all the brands out that weren't really popular (I do want to be able to get some good support online.)
I skipped out the 2.1 sets, because they mainly cost too much or probably would deliver crappy results compared in the mid-high range compared to 2 monitors.. (and maybe even crappy low because everything had to be budget.

I also threw out all the sets with 5" and 5.5" drivers, so now I've got left:

M-AUDIO STUDIOPHILE.BX8A DELUXE (8") 300 euro
BEHRINGER B3030A TRUTH (6.5") 300 euro
ALESIS M1 ACTIV MK2 (6.5") 300 euro
SAMSON RESOLV A8 (8") 300 euro
SAMSON RUBICON R6A (6") 300 euro
BEHRINGER B2031A TRUTH (8") 325 euro
BEHRINGER.B3031A.(8") 350 euro
KRK Rokit.RP 6.(6") 400 euro
SAMSON RUBICON R8A (8") 400 euro
Yamaha.HS80M.(8") 475 euro
KRK Rokit.RP 8.(8") 500 euro

Ok, so that's a smaller list then before, they're sorted on price and filtered by everything mentioned above.

Now tell me, which brands/which of these monitors have a good price/performance ratio and which ones have bad ones.. (for example,, I heard Behringer was a brand that delivers bad results in term of price/performance ? )

Help me out, it will be greatly appreciated!! <3


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