# How can I play legato clean?, help please.



## Keytarist (Jun 12, 2009)

Hi. I want to develop legato in my practicing routine, but I have some questions that instructional videos couldn't answer. I'm aware of practicing very slow and with economy of movement. But anyway, when pulling-off my fingers tend to touch the string below the one I'm fretting. This makes a subtle sound, but with distortion turns on a noise, loud enough to be annoying. How can I solve this?. Thanks a lot!.


----------



## Maniacal (Jun 12, 2009)

Dont touch the string below the one youre playing LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


HAHAHAHAHHAHA

Thanks Strongbow


----------



## Keytarist (Jun 12, 2009)

This isn't like normal fretting...indeed when playing picking this doesn't happen. It comes when I PULL the string, and it seems to be inevitable. So I want to know how to mute this noise.


----------



## Konfyouzd (Jun 13, 2009)

do it really really really slow. then gradually speed it up. that's how i learned it. 

or you can take the approach that petrucci proposed to alternate picking. do it really slow. then do it REALLY fast. the do it somewhere in the middle that's comfortable. then increase your slow speed. then increase your fast speed and then try it somewhere that's comfortable in the middle again.

my legato is by no means flawless but both of these approaches have helped it tremendoeusly. i actually prefer legato to alternate picking now for fast runs.


----------



## Excalibur (Jun 13, 2009)

Maniacal said:


> Dont touch the string below the one youre playing LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> HAHAHAHAHHAHA
> ...


What?


Don't use pull-offs.


----------



## S-O (Jun 13, 2009)

Satriani talks about how he uses the fingers of his picking hand to rest on strings he is not playing when he does legato.


----------



## Keytarist (Jun 13, 2009)

S-O said:


> Satriani talks about how he uses the fingers of his picking hand to rest on strings he is not playing when he does legato.



Great tip!. 

As I said before, my main problem is to play clean. Some advanced players refering about legato, told me to play with my fingers tips not falling straight over the string, but more flat in order to mute the string below. I didn't have good results with this technique, this Satriani's approach seems to be much better. Thanks!.
How many other guitarists use this picking hand fingers mute for legato?.
Any other approach for a clean legato?.


----------



## November5th (Jun 13, 2009)

I prefer to hammer on notes instead of pulling off.I find you get a much cleaner tone with more dynamics.I have some clips on my myspace page if you would like to check out.Peace.


Dean

Dean Johnston on MySpace Music - Free Streaming MP3s, Pictures & Music Downloads


----------



## Keytarist (Jun 13, 2009)

Sorry, I don't get it. As far as I know, hammer-ons are for when you ascend through a scale, and pull-offs are for when you descend. Is this right?.


----------



## Konfyouzd (Jun 13, 2009)

November5th said:


> I prefer to hammer on notes instead of pulling off.I find you get a much cleaner tone with more dynamics.I have some clips on my myspace page if you would like to check out.Peace.
> 
> 
> Dean
> ...



i can do both the hammers and the pull-offs. pull-offs don't sound that bad. it's just hard to do it w/o accidentally plucking the other strings sometimes.


----------



## Metaljim (Jun 13, 2009)




----------



## Keytarist (Jun 14, 2009)

Ok, that lesson was really good. Now that I know that for a real legato sound, you must use only hammer-ons, how can I get enough strength that way to make the strings vibrate?. Or maybe it works only with distortion?.
And most important thing of those 2 techniques, the 'fake legato' (or maybe slurred staccato) and actual legato, which one is more easy or suited for a beginner in new articulations?.


----------



## freepower (Jun 14, 2009)

Marshall's full of shit, quite frankly. Legato is as "real" with pull offs - and indeed, some people even like the sound of pull offs. Shocking as it sounds.

To get enough strength and control to convincingly use that style of legato try and use the very tips of the fingers, classical style hand position and practice very slowly - aiming to make your hammered notes louder as your picked ones. That's how Holdsy practiced. 

And unfortunately, it pretty much only going to work through gain - it needent be "distortion" per se. 

For a beginner, what you want to try and do is get clear hammers and pulls between each finger combination. Everyone can play 124 co-ordinations quicky, or 421 - try stuff like 142, moving patterns through and across strings. Here's a cool legato etude I like - plenty of interesting co-ordinations here.


----------



## Konfyouzd (Jun 14, 2009)

freepower said:


> Marshall's full of shit, quite frankly. Legato is as "real" with pull offs - and indeed, some people even like the sound of pull offs. Shocking as it sounds.



that's what i'm saying


----------



## S-O (Jun 14, 2009)

Marshall comes off as a dick, but the man can play.

I feel that the reverse hammer ons, like Holdsworth's, is really just a refined and less exaggerated pull off, more like a pull away. 

I also think that working on legato correctly, you end up reaching this point naturally when aiming for higher speeds, because you end up finding more economic ways of playing, and 'waste' less time flapping around.


----------



## freepower (Jun 14, 2009)

A pull off is completely different in terms of execution. A subtle pull off remains a pull off - if you are generating the note with the finger leaving the string, it's a pull off. If you're generating the note with the finger that frets that note it's a hammer. 

Not to be pedantic but we can't confuse the OP at all. He's a beginner with this stuff. 



> Marshall comes off as a dick, but the man can play.



The lessons on his site were pretty good but the YT stuff is rubbish. It's clear he doesn't have any plan or any real motivation to teach his viewers. He can play, but I have severely gone off him since he started his YT account.


----------



## Keytarist (Jun 14, 2009)

freepower said:


> A pull off is completely different in terms of execution. A subtle pull off remains a pull off - if you are generating the note with the finger leaving the string, it's a pull off. If you're generating the note with the finger that frets that note it's a hammer.



This 'reverse hammer-on' seems more like a fretting hand tapping. Correct me if I'm wrong. In 'normal' playing, when descending through a scale, you fret at the same time all the notes of the pattern, 4-3-1 for example, so your third finger will be already fretting when you release the fourth. I guess that in 'backward hammer-on' your fingers must stay not fretting down, just slightly touching the string, in order to fall over it when you're going to play the note. Is more like hitting the keys of a piano, rather than 'normal' fretting.
Sorry, english isn't my native language, I can't explain better what I'm trying to say.
*
*


----------



## Harry (Jun 14, 2009)

I personally use both the "reverse hammer on" and pull off techniques for legato, it just depends exactly on the shape of the pattern of notes I'm using. There are some patterns where the reverse hammer on technique wont work correctly for the whole note run. Sometimes I might use both descending legato techniques in one run.
Ultimately, the normal pull off technique is just fine. Joe Satriani uses it and I would hardly call the man a slouch.
Tone wise, aim for a high gain tone with plenty of mids, BUT be careful about how you set the gain.
You need to find a balance between having enough compression to make the proceedings sound smooth and you've gotta also make sure the gain is low enough that it makes weaknesses in your legato technique apparent.


----------



## freepower (Jun 15, 2009)

Keytarist said:


> This 'reverse hammer-on' seems more like a fretting hand tapping. Correct me if I'm wrong. In 'normal' playing, when descending through a scale, you fret at the same time all the notes of the pattern, 4-3-1 for example, so your third finger will be already fretting when you release the fourth. I guess that in 'backward hammer-on' your fingers must stay not fretting down, just slightly touching the string, in order to fall over it when you're going to play the note. Is more like hitting the keys of a piano, rather than 'normal' fretting.
> Sorry, english isn't my native language, I can't explain better what I'm trying to say.



You're pretty much correct, it's like playing a piano in that the action producing a note is the same whether crossing strings, ascending, descending, whatever.

The small detail I'd disagree with is in the 431 example - you shouldn't be fretting all the notes ready to descend. You should be only be exerting pressure on the note you're currently playing, and then during the pull-off move the pressure gently to the next note.

This is fundamental to relaxed legato that traverses strings with ease. If you fret all the notes on a string the tension makes it hard to move from string to string.


----------



## darbdavys (Jun 15, 2009)

Keytarist said:


> Sorry, I don't get it. As far as I know, hammer-ons are for when you ascend through a scale, and pull-offs are for when you descend. Is this right?.


if I understood correctly, he says about releasing finger and hammering on the lower note with another finger, so you don't need to pulloff.
e.g. you play on 14th fret, and you release it and momentarily hammer on 12th fret.


----------



## 777 (Jun 16, 2009)

freepower said:


> I AM LEGATO MASTAR!!!!!!



Seriously man is that legato etude meant to be played with absolutely no picked notes whatsoever?


----------



## freepower (Jun 16, 2009)

Oh no, that'd be a bit ridiculous. You can get away without picking the vast majority of them though. 

I pick the finger rolls and the string skips with hybrid picking and that's about it. That being said, haven't played that etude in a loooong time, and never got it up past 90bpm. It's a Shaun Baxter thing from GT, and his examples always seem to be at the correct tempo in the "slow" example and then too fast for the fast one.

Shaun recorded it at 90 and 120bpm iirc, flawlessly clean. Beastly.


----------



## Keytarist (Jun 16, 2009)

I'll try to develop legato with hammer-ons and pull-offs, I'm not sure to keep this method though, it all depends of what works better for me. I'm using a different approach than normal pull-offs, because I'm pulling towards the sky (instead of pulling towards the floor), as said DDDorian in another thread http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/music-theory-lessons-and-techniques/17603-legato-style.html 



freepower said:


> Here's a cool legato etude I like - plenty of interesting co-ordinations here.


I don't have Guitar Pro .


----------



## freepower (Jun 17, 2009)

Get tuxguitar. 

Definately pull towards the floor instead the ceiling. The extensor muscles of the hand just aren't meant for that kind of precise and strong motion.


----------



## 74n4LL0 (Jun 17, 2009)

my legato tecnique is pretty clean and I'm faster with legato than with alternate.

I do something like that:
right hand to rest on the strings above
for the string below I use the first finger (I still have the left hand pretty but usually the first finger is stopping the strings below)

When I do legato mixed with picking I usually have a really different picking angle (similar to Marty Friedman) to have a smoother tone.


----------



## freepower (Jun 17, 2009)

> I do something like that:
> right hand to rest on the strings above
> for the string below I use the first finger (I still have the left hand pretty but usually the first finger is stopping the strings below)



Aye, like this?


----------

