# Peavey Invective Megathread Misha Mansoor Signature Amp



## Takk

From Twitter 
https://twitter.com/shima_md/status/822208061443973120


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## Blasphemer

Dat footswitch...


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

Well that came out of nowhere.


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## op1e

Wow, umm. Peavey coppin ENGL tones now? Guess it explains why he's making an overdrive now.


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## endmysuffering

What.


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## op1e

I just stumped Google for the 1st time checking this.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

I don't think Misha's done the Engl thing since the first album. On his Axe, I believe he mostly used the Recto, 5150, and Friedman amps the most. 

And he's had an overdrive with Protone for awhile now. It's just he ditched them and decided to make his own.


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## Takk

Misha will do a demo of this amp at NAMM.
https://www.facebook.com/PeaveyElec...196255.168803.177270091255/10153991072411256/


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## bulb

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Well that came out of nowhere.



Haha I have kept this a secret for almost 3 years now.


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## vick1000

Peavey ehh?

Bet it's made in China. Looks like a great feature set though.


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## bulb

vick1000 said:


> Peavey ehh?
> 
> Bet it's made in China. Looks like a great feature set though.



It's made in the USA! I packed every feature I would want in my dream amp, and this thing sounds absolutely monstrous.
I'll show everything off at NAMM, it's been hard to keep this one under wraps as we were developing it haha.


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## SwanWings

I'm intrigued... I'm quite interested to see the back panel. Is this amp based at all on the original 5150 sound?


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

bulb said:


> It's made in the USA! I packed every feature I would want in my dream amp, and this thing sounds absolutely monstrous.
> I'll show everything off at NAMM, it's been hard to keep this one under wraps as we were developing it haha.



If you can say one thing about it... Is it based on the 5150, Ultra (XXX, JSX, etc), or is it it's own thing?

EDIT: And will Periphery backlines be ....ing awesome with Peavy fullstacks in the background like the old Loudness shows?


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## mongey

WtF is a midi button ?


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

Facebook video. 

So, it's basically a souped up 6505+. Has the Crunch and Lead of the 6505+, with an ACTUAL clean channel, and both gain channels have a TS-style boost/noise gate.


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## bulb

mongey said:


> WtF is a midi button ?



It's sends out MIDI cc4 in case you want to assign a custom function to that switch, tap tempo, tuner, etc for your midi device!


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## bulb

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Facebook video.
> 
> So, it's basically a souped up 6505+. Has the Crunch and Lead of the 6505+, with an ACTUAL clean channel, and both gain channels have a TS-style boost/noise gate.



We actually started with an original block letter, but obviously tweaked it from there. Ch2/3 have a wide range of sounds, but Ch2 has more low mid and purr, Ch3 has more hi mid and god save us all "djent". It's insanely pissed off especially with the Drive, the gate is ultra tight, the clean channel rules.


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## mongey

bulb said:


> It's sends out MIDI cc4 in case you want to assign a custom function to that switch, tap tempo, tuner, etc for your midi device!



cool idea. never seen one on an amp foot switch before


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## JD27

The 9 volt power supply on the back is kind of a neat idea.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

Reminds me of the old Randalls that had 3-prong outlets on the back.


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## buriedoutback

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> So, it's basically a souped up 6505+. Has the Crunch and Lead of the 6505+, with an ACTUAL clean channel, and both gain channels have a TS-style boost/noise gate.



Interesting!! That'll cut down on pedals out front.


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## bulb

JD27 said:


> The 9 volt power supply on the back is kind of a neat idea.



I told them that I wanted two power supplies to be able to power my Strymon Timeline and Big Sky, and put one in each loop and then be able to remotely switch them using the pedal. Because the pedal has a preset mode, and the amp has a midi thru I could also use that pedal to switch presets on the Strymons.

There's a very real possibility that I may move fully to an amp rig and use my Axefx for effects.
In the meantime, it will be my live poweramp, because we designed the loops to be ULTRA clean for use with modelers, and the Axefx II sounds so goddamn good through the amp's poweramp.


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## bulb

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Reminds me of the old Randalls that had 3-prong outlets on the back.



Just to be clear these are 9v neg tip barrel outlets, like a pedal board power supply. Draw is i think 1amp.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

I know.  It's just kinda similar. I imagine the Randall was for basically the same thing.


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## op1e

That and the Greenback 2x12 and the 6505 powered sub. Holy Shizenberger.


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## mongey

well at the very least I had to google a new word today

invective. I shall use it in conversation at the pub tonight


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## crankyrayhanky

bulb said:


> It's made in the USA! I packed every feature I would want in my dream amp, and this thing sounds absolutely monstrous.
> I'll show everything off at NAMM, it's been hard to keep this one under wraps as we were developing it haha.


Kudos to you for keeping it USA
The features look great. The BK Juggernauts are my #1, so incredible... I am sure the tone on this will be to my liking

I hope the midi and loop work well with my FX8...want!!!
I'm gonna blow up in my Madison Square Garage with this!


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## Universe74

bulb said:


> We actually started with an original block letter, but obviously tweaked it from there. Ch2/3 have a wide range of sounds, but Ch2 has more low mid and purr, Ch3 has more hi mid and god save us all "djent". It's insanely pissed off especially with the Drive, the gate is ultra tight, the clean channel rules.



You are not helping.


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## bulb

op1e said:


> That and the Greenback 2x12 and the 6505 powered sub. Holy Shizenberger.



Just for clarity, the cab has a V30/Creamback H combo because that is still the best speaker combo I have come across. You get the bite and traditional frequency response of the v30, but the harsh edges are softened by the Creamback H and you get more low mids and warmth out of that speaker.

The Greenbacks sound so good, but wattage wise are too much of a mismatch for the v30, so they break up so much faster. The Creamback H at 75 watts breaks up much consistently with the 60w v30 at stage volume, and honestly the way at the volumes we run them, they aren't really breaking up in a bad way.


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## maggotspawn

Looks bada$$.


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## stratjacket

Congrats on the new amp, looks like some great features. Can't wait to hear it. Do you have any youtube demo's coinciding with the release?


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## Steinmetzify

This is disgustingly sick and cool. 

You basically eliminated the need for a metal player's pedalboard. Boosts in there, gates, power supplies/MIDI w/presets for delays etc. This thing is gonna rule. 

Right the .... on man, damn good job! Any clips for this thing yet?


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## bulb

steinmetzify said:


> This is disgustingly sick and cool.
> 
> You basically eliminated the need for a metal player's pedalboard. Boosts in there, gates, power supplies/MIDI w/presets for delays etc. This thing is gonna rule.
> 
> Right the .... on man, damn good job! Any clips for this thing yet?



Not just yet but obviously all of that is coming very soon. We literally just put the finishing touches on this beast and it really has been almost 3 years in the works at this point haha.


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## toiletstand

did you name it after the destiny shotgun? 


edit: ALSO CONGRATS DUDE AMP LOOKS ALL SICK


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## bulb

toiletstand said:


> did you name it after the destiny shotgun?
> 
> 
> edit: ALSO CONGRATS DUDE AMP LOOKS ALL SICK



...i don't know what you are talking about...teehee

Remember when Invective was OP as all hell and the meta in Iron Banner. Well just pretend that the stage and studio are Iron Banner and Crucible right now, because this Invective is way OP, but there is one very big difference:

Bungie can't nerf this.


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## toiletstand

HAHAHA oh my god


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## BearOnGuitar

Congrats on the amp Misha! It has some really nice features, I might be in for one myself. Any info on pricing? Looking forward to some sound demos.


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## whosdealin

I've owned more amps than I would like to admit.... Diezel, Bogner, Friedman, Soldano, Engl, Mesa, etc etc ....My 6505+ has been my go to amp it just sounds so right to me. I also love the original 5150 and the EVH Fender versions. Its amazing how great these amps sound considering the more afordible price points compared to the boutique brands.

Now if this new peavey amp does that sound right with all the added features it has then Misha hit a home run by teaming up with Peavey. Ive always thought that if a 5150 amp with a tubescreamer and ts style boost built in came out it would be the ultimate for me. 

Misha can you tell us more about the tubescreamer circuit thats built in ? Also would you say that the voicing of the amp is as aggressive as the original 5150 or is it a bit smother like the 5150 II ? Personally I like the Huge sound the original 5150 has but it can get a bit hairy in certain places , the 5150 II is smoother and tighter.

I'm thinking an amp thats voiced somwehere between the original and the 5150 II would be killer, spinklle in a little added clarity and it would be my dream amp &#55357;&#56834;


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## bulb

whosdealin said:


> I've owned more amps than I would like to admit.... Diezel, Bogner, Friedman, Soldano, Engl, Mesa, etc etc ....My 6505+ has been my go to amp it just sounds so right to me. I also love the original 5150 and the EVH Fender versions. Its amazing how great these amps sound considering the more afordible price points compared to the boutique brands.
> 
> Now if this new peavey amp does that sound right with all the added features it has then Misha hit a home run by teaming up with Peavey. Ive always thought that if a 5150 amp with a tubescreamer and ts style boost built in came out it would be the ultimate for me.
> 
> Misha can you tell us more about the tubescreamer circuit thats built in ? Also would you say that the voicing of the amp is as aggressive as the original 5150 or is it a bit smother like the 5150 II ? Personally I like the Huge sound the original 5150 has but it can get a bit hairy in certain places , the 5150 II is smoother and tighter.
> 
> I'm thinking an amp thats voiced somwehere between the original and the 5150 II would be killer, spinklle in a little added clarity and it would be my dream amp &#65533;&#65533;




Hey dude, this exact sentiment is why I approached Peavey with this idea. 
To answer your question, we started with the Peavey Block Letter and built up from there. To me that has always been the best sounding of the 5150s, and it always had this super rich harmonic characteristic and this beautiful saturation that I never got from another amp. To my ears, the 5150 II was a bit anemic and sterile sounding by comparison. Also the way the high mids sit on that amp just make it work so magically in rock and metal recordings. 

The amp is super aggressive, and the TS style drive on Ch2/3 put it in pissed off mode haha, the super tight gate keeps everything in check, I don't really ever run it higher than halfway up haha!

The Ch1 OD is very different, it kinda started life as a TS but we changed it A LOT because I wanted that to be kind of a sparkly/cranked vintage amp kind of vibe and Ch1 with that on is one of my favorite things to jam on ever.


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## VigilSerus

bulb said:


> ...i don't know what you are talking about...teehee
> 
> Remember when Invective was OP as all hell and the meta in Iron Banner. Well just pretend that the stage and studio are Iron Banner and Crucible right now, because this Invective is way OP, but there is one very big difference:
> 
> Bungie can't nerf this.




I'm willing to bet this amp is going to be as hot and pissed off as Invective's ornament Storm's Reproach.


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## beerandbeards

What about the Peavey Gjallarhorn?


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## beerandbeards

Will the Peavey Thorn be the 50w version?


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## op1e

bulb said:


> Just for clarity, the cab has a V30/Creamback H combo because that is still the best speaker combo I have come across. You get the bite and traditional frequency response of the v30, but the harsh edges are softened by the Creamback H and you get more low mids and warmth out of that speaker.
> 
> The Greenbacks sound so good, but wattage wise are too much of a mismatch for the v30, so they break up so much faster. The Creamback H at 75 watts breaks up much consistently with the 60w v30 at stage volume, and honestly the way at the volumes we run them, they aren't really breaking up in a bad way.



Didn't know if that was a sig cab with it or not, cool. Be sweet if they made a 4x12 of that too with an X pattern.


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## lemeker

Curious if it's what we hear in the new Jackson video, or just an amp they have laying around...?


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## rebornself27

I'm sold !! Congrats Misha!! i.Is it too soon to ask the street price on the Invective


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## nerdywhale

bulb said:


> The Ch1 OD is very different, it kinda started life as a TS but we changed it A LOT because I wanted that to be kind of a sparkly/cranked vintage amp kind of vibe and Ch1 with that on is one of my favorite things to jam on ever.



Can the first revision change this to an HM-2 pls?


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## incinerated_guitar

Well....looks like I'll be selling my EVH that I JUST bought soon


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## Snarpaasi

Gief demo of the amp!


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## endmysuffering

I wonder how this will work with 8 string drop e guitars.


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## P-Ride

The dual-input (guitar detection and FX loop in) style of the G-String and TC sentry pedals has made them a real headache for keeping a simple FX board that I can use through amps and into my laptop alike; palming that off to an amp would be super-convenient (I have VST gating in Ableton) - does this amp's gating giving the previously-mentioned pedals a run for their money?

I would love to drop a noise-gate off my travelling pedalboard if possible!

Also, am I right in thinking the 5150 II/6505+ are known for have more upper-mid focus and the 5150/6505 more of a low-mid focus?

In that sense, this amp would grab the II in channel 3 and the I in channel 2?

Please correct if I misunderstand! Cheers


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## Spinedriver

Sadly, the only guitar shop in town stopped carrying Peavey a few years ago.  
Mainly because the company that owns the chain also makes Traynor amps and Peavey would CRUSH them in sales (not that they sell many to begin with.. they've had a 3 channel 100 watt head of theirs on sale for $600 for over a year now & it's still sitting there). Not that Traynors are terrible, it's just that you need pedals to make them sound good.

That being said, if the retail on the Invective is on par with other Peavey heads, I can see this going toe-to-toe with the 5150III EASILY. Can't wait to hear the demos.


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## Hachetjoel

VERY interested in this.


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## Harry

P-Ride said:


> The dual-input (guitar detection and FX loop in) style of the G-String and TC sentry pedals has made them a real headache for keeping a simple FX board that I can use through amps and into my laptop alike; palming that off to an amp would be super-convenient (I have VST gating in Ableton) - does this amp's gating giving the previously-mentioned pedals a run for their money?
> 
> I would love to drop a noise-gate off my travelling pedalboard if possible!
> 
> *Also, am I right in thinking the 5150 II/6505+ are known for have more upper-mid focus and the 5150/6505 more of a low-mid focus*?
> 
> In that sense, this amp would grab the II in channel 3 and the I in channel 2?
> 
> Please correct if I misunderstand! Cheers



Sort of, yeah.
There's only 4 components difference between the 5150/6505 and 5150II/6505+ lead/red channel. The II/+ component values move the high pass filtering higher up, ergo cuts more bass. The weaker bass content definitely ups the perception of more nasally mids too (mind you not in a bad way at all IMO).
This was something I came to really appreciate about the 6505+ I had because it meant I didn't need to run a TS-style boost as the tightness was already there.


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## protest

I'm so disappointed that this thing isn't called Fatebringer.


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## prlgmnr

I feel like this thread is a bit short on invective, so...

What the .... is the point of just slightly modifying a 5150 and putting a couple of effects power supplies in the back of it when I can already plug my effects in anywhere, not to mention two effects loops which will no doubt suck twice as much tone as a single loop thus leaving 0 tone intact.


Seriously though, I keep thinking of buying a block letter 5150 so will definitely be looking out for the UK pricing on these, even if just in order to go "OH FOR ....S SAKE" and go back to keeping an eye out for old 5150s.


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## theicon2125

bulb said:


> We actually started with an original block letter, but obviously tweaked it from there. Ch2/3 have a wide range of sounds, but Ch2 has more low mid and purr, Ch3 has more hi mid and god save us all "djent". It's insanely pissed off especially with the Drive, the gate is ultra tight, the clean channel rules.



Holy .... this is almost exactly what I'm looking for in an amp. If this is priced right I've found where my tax return is going. Are you going to be using these on tour now or sticking with the Axe FX? I know a lot of the reason you guys like to use Axe is because it's easier than taking a tube head with you on the road.

Edit: also what is the second power level? 60 watts?


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## DarthV

Spinedriver said:


> Sadly, the only guitar shop in town stopped carrying Peavey a few years ago.
> Mainly because the company that owns the chain also makes Traynor amps and Peavey would CRUSH them in sales (not that they sell many to begin with.. they've had a 3 channel 100 watt head of theirs on sale for $600 for over a year now & it's still sitting there). Not that Traynors are terrible, it's just that you need pedals to make them sound good.
> 
> That being said, if the retail on the Invective is on par with other Peavey heads, I can see this going toe-to-toe with the 5150III EASILY. Can't wait to hear the demos.



I can't remember seeing Peavey stuff @ L&M, here in Fredericton, ever. Be interesting to hear what this beast will sound like.


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## StrmRidr

DarthV said:


> I can't remember seeing Peavey stuff @ L&M, here in Fredericton, ever. Be interesting to hear what this beast will sound like.



That is because L&M does not carry Peavey for some reason.


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## whosdealin

prlgmnr said:


> I feel like this thread is a bit short on invective, so...
> 
> What the .... is the point of just slightly modifying a 5150 and putting a couple of effects power supplies in the back of it when I can already plug my effects in anywhere, not to mention two effects loops which will no doubt suck twice as much tone as a single loop thus leaving 0 tone intact.
> 
> 
> Seriously though, I keep thinking of buying a block letter 5150 so will definitely be looking out for the UK pricing on these, even if just in order to go "OH FOR ....S SAKE" and go back to keeping an eye out for old 5150s.



Man I think the opposite that this amp is right to the point .
The point being that if you are a giging modern Metal player who brings an amp , switching system and several pedals or rack pieces to a show this amp would cut down on all the .... to carry around. 

On top of that there isn't really a clean tone to be had with the original 5150. This amp having a full clean channel and even a switchable volume boost for solos really covers a lot of ground of what you might need in a live situation . 

I just hope the tone is there and that it's as good or possibly better than the original 5150 . One thing to also keep in mind is that the loop on the original 5150 and 5152 is pretty transparent. It's actually better than a lot of "boutique" amps so I also have my fingers crossed that they used that same design or even improved on it.

I could see myself preordering one of these from MF or Sweetwater. Maybe Misha can clue us in on when these will be showing up at dealers.


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## cwhitey2

whosdealin said:


> Man I think the opposite that this amp is right to the point .
> The point being that if you are a giging modern Metal player who brings an amp , switching system and several pedals or rack pieces to a show this amp would cut down on all the .... to carry around.
> 
> On top of that there isn't really a clean tone to be had with the original 5150. This amp having a full clean channel and even a switchable volume boost for solos really covers a lot of ground of what you might need in a live situation .
> 
> I just hope the tone is there and that it's as good or possibly better than the original 5150 . One thing to also keep in mind is that the loop on the original 5150 and 5152 is pretty transparent. It's actually better than a lot of "boutique" amps so I also have my fingers crossed that they used that same design or even improved on it.
> 
> I could see myself preordering one of these from MF or Sweetwater. Maybe Misha can clue us in on when these will be showing up at dealers.



I'm not worried about the tone or the loops at all. I'm just wondering how much these suckers will $$$, since it's essentially a 5150 with ALL the features that a 5150 doesn't have


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## bnzboy

can't wait to try this amp out and eventually get one


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## TonyFlyingSquirrel

Back panel pic?
Midi capability?


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## Baconjerky

Looks really awesome. A USA suped up 5150 yea it's gonna be some $$$. Maybe I should have waited on doing that bathroom remodel... 

Great that his name's not written on it or anything too. I can't stand that about signature gear.


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## RustInPeace

Might have just killed my gas for a Mesa TC-50. This has all the features I want. I used to own a block letter 5150 and I regret selling it sometimes.. only to remember it has the worst clean channel ever. If this is a significant upgrade over that I might be all over it.


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## NorCal_Val

Well...I may have to go back on my "I'll never own another Peavey amp. Ever." oath.
Guess I'll have to drag the 8-string down to the Peavey dealer in SacTown to try one.
(When/if they ever get one...)


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## electriceye

Holy crap....


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## Double A

prlgmnr said:


> I feel like this thread is a bit short on invective, so...
> 
> What the .... is the point of just slightly modifying a 5150 and putting a couple of effects power supplies in the back of it when I can already plug my effects in anywhere, not to mention two effects loops which will no doubt suck twice as much tone as a single loop thus leaving 0 tone intact.
> 
> 
> Seriously though, I keep thinking of buying a block letter 5150 so will definitely be looking out for the UK pricing on these, even if just in order to go "OH FOR ....S SAKE" and go back to keeping an eye out for old 5150s.




What is the point? I have been using a 5150 II almost 20 years, because it is the sound I want and my pedal board for about 10 of those years has been:

guitar>turbotuner>maxon808>keeley 4 knob>Decimator II>amp

Loop in>7 band EQ>Boss Line Selector in loop mode with a Carbon Copy delay in that loop>effects in

A PP2+ powers it all.

That is 7 pedals to get the rhythm channel working the way I want and then I basically had to add a boost/lead channel with the line selector for solos. I love my amp but anything that would cut this down would be a god send.

So, if the Invective is just a modernized 5150 with a usable clean channel to boot I will be one of the first people in line to get one. It has taken Peavey waaaay too long to do this if you ask me.


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## electriceye

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Facebook video.
> 
> So, it's basically a souped up 6505+. Has the Crunch and Lead of the 6505+, with an ACTUAL clean channel, and both gain channels have a TS-style boost/noise gate.



I don't get how Peavey can put this out there.....and there are no demos of it. WTF?


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## P-Ride

Baconjerky said:


> Great that his name's not written on it or anything too. I can't stand that about signature gear.



Yeah, I've never liked the idea of signature gear, even if it's my favourite guitarist; but every piece of gear released for the Periphery guys seems to be dripping in sensible ideas.


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## bulb

P-Ride said:


> Yeah, I've never liked the idea of signature gear, even if it's my favourite guitarist; but every piece of gear released for the Periphery guys seems to be dripping in sensible ideas.



Well, that's why this is a collaboration. I worked on the amp with them, but it does not bear my name anywhere on it, it's just an amp that will be available to buy soon, just a pretty damn incredible one haha!

I seriously can't wait for you guys to hear this, and hopefully be able to try these out for yourselves in your stores that stock Peavey!


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## bulb

endmysuffering said:


> I wonder how this will work with 8 string drop e guitars.



Very very well. I definitely tested it extensively with all sort of tunings, and with Ch2/3 and the Boost on it can handle those low tunings and keep things very tight and clear!


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## bulb

P-Ride said:


> The dual-input (guitar detection and FX loop in) style of the G-String and TC sentry pedals has made them a real headache for keeping a simple FX board that I can use through amps and into my laptop alike; palming that off to an amp would be super-convenient (I have VST gating in Ableton) - does this amp's gating giving the previously-mentioned pedals a run for their money?
> 
> I would love to drop a noise-gate off my travelling pedalboard if possible!
> 
> Also, am I right in thinking the 5150 II/6505+ are known for have more upper-mid focus and the 5150/6505 more of a low-mid focus?
> 
> In that sense, this amp would grab the II in channel 3 and the I in channel 2?
> 
> Please correct if I misunderstand! Cheers



Hmm I wouldn't say that, CH2/CH3 started life as the Green and Red Chans on a block letter, but we focused on the gain since the green channel was never really a clean channel. We also tweaked everything from there, but I would say it would be selling it short to call it just a 5150/5150II.



prlgmnr said:


> I feel like this thread is a bit short on invective, so...
> 
> What the .... is the point of just slightly modifying a 5150 and putting a couple of effects power supplies in the back of it when I can already plug my effects in anywhere, not to mention two effects loops which will no doubt suck twice as much tone as a single loop thus leaving 0 tone intact.
> 
> 
> Seriously though, I keep thinking of buying a block letter 5150 so will definitely be looking out for the UK pricing on these, even if just in order to go "OH FOR ....S SAKE" and go back to keeping an eye out for old 5150s.



You seem to really dislike the idea of the amp. But just keep in mind that the amp's tone is the most important factor for me. At every juncture, and with every feature, the first question I was asking was if this would affect the tone negatively. The features you don't like or care for, you don't have to use. The loops by design are ULTRA clean and don't color the sound on or off. 

Maybe this won't end up being the amp for you, but I would urge you to keep an open mind and actually try one before writing it off. You might be surprised!



whosdealin said:


> Man I think the opposite that this amp is right to the point .
> The point being that if you are a giging modern Metal player who brings an amp , switching system and several pedals or rack pieces to a show this amp would cut down on all the .... to carry around.
> 
> On top of that there isn't really a clean tone to be had with the original 5150. This amp having a full clean channel and even a switchable volume boost for solos really covers a lot of ground of what you might need in a live situation .
> 
> I just hope the tone is there and that it's as good or possibly better than the original 5150 . One thing to also keep in mind is that the loop on the original 5150 and 5152 is pretty transparent. It's actually better than a lot of "boutique" amps so I also have my fingers crossed that they used that same design or even improved on it.
> 
> I could see myself preordering one of these from MF or Sweetwater. Maybe Misha can clue us in on when these will be showing up at dealers.



I'm not really sure when these will be showing up at dealers because we literally just finished the latest revisions in time for this to show at NAMM, but the plan is to get all of this rolling ASAP!

Also, just so you know, by comparison, the 5150 is a pretty noisy amp. The engineer who I worked with on this, John Fields, told me how excited he was to finally get an opportunity to try to clear that up as much as possible. It's not quite as straight forward as it sounds because we had to clean it up without compromising the overall tone, and that was a time consuming process with a lot of A/Bing and testing to make sure we were only improving on the amp!



cwhitey2 said:


> I'm not worried about the tone or the loops at all. I'm just wondering how much these suckers will $$$, since it's essentially a 5150 with ALL the features that a 5150 doesn't have





Double A said:


> What is the point? I have been using a 5150 II almost 20 years, because it is the sound I want and my pedal board for about 10 of those years has been:
> 
> guitar>turbotuner>maxon808>keeley 4 knob>Decimator II>amp
> 
> Loop in>7 band EQ>Boss Line Selector in loop mode with a Carbon Copy delay in that loop>effects in
> 
> A PP2+ powers it all.
> 
> That is 7 pedals to get the rhythm channel working the way I want and then I basically had to add a boost/lead channel with the line selector for solos. I love my amp but anything that would cut this down would be a god send.
> 
> So, if the Invective is just a modernized 5150 with a usable clean channel to boot I will be one of the first people in line to get one. It has taken Peavey waaaay too long to do this if you ask me.




I think you understand EXACTLY why I wanted to make this amp haha.


----------



## BadSeed

Being a huge 5150 fan, I'm excited to hear this. Honestly, I was hoping for a whole new amp/voicing, as the 5150 sound has pretty much become THE sound for modern metal of any sort, but that's not without reason.

Half power is nice, the option to swap power tube types would be awesome as well. Not sure if the latter is a feature of this amp or not, but has been of the ultra series for some time, so incorporating it into the 5150/6505 family would have been an awesome addition. Either way, I'm excited to hear this thing.


----------



## Garfish

I can't wait to hear some demos ! I'm currently looking at buying a 5150 iii 50w, but this could be a challenger, depending on the pricetag and sounds


----------



## technomancer

Garfish said:


> I can't wait to hear some demos ! I'm currently looking at buying a 5150 iii 50w, but this could be a challenger, depending on the pricetag and sounds



It's highly unlikely this will be in the same price ballpark as the 5153 50w, given the Chinese built 6505+ is the same price... I would be happy to be wrong though.


----------



## Spinedriver

StrmRidr said:


> That is because L&M does not carry Peavey for some reason.



When our store was a Musicstop, they sold Peavey but once L&M bought them out, that was probably roughly when they stopped. I thought I had heard a rumor some time ago that L&M were having difficulties dealing with Peavey on a few levels. So, now that they sell Spider amps, Fender Mustangs, Boss Katana & Marshall CODE/MG amps, it could be that they just told them that they don't need their business anymore and just dropped 'em.

That being said though, if you live in bigger cities like Montreal, Calgary, etc.. there are bound to be a few stores here & there that'll be carrying them. Sadly, it's not the case for places here in N.B. If I want to get a Peavey amp, it's either off Kijiji or online.


----------



## cwhitey2

bulb said:


> Hmm I wouldn't say that, CH2/CH3 started life as the Green and Red Chans on a block letter, but we focused on the gain since the green channel was never really a clean channel. We also tweaked everything from there, but I would say it would be selling it short to call it just a 5150/5150II.
> 
> 
> 
> You seem to really dislike the idea of the amp. But just keep in mind that the amp's tone is the most important factor for me. At every juncture, and with every feature, the first question I was asking was if this would affect the tone negatively. The features you don't like or care for, you don't have to use. The loops by design are ULTRA clean and don't color the sound on or off.
> 
> Maybe this won't end up being the amp for you, but I would urge you to keep an open mind and actually try one before writing it off. You might be surprised!
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not really sure when these will be showing up at dealers because we literally just finished the latest revisions in time for this to show at NAMM, but the plan is to get all of this rolling ASAP!
> 
> Also, just so you know, by comparison, the 5150 is a pretty noisy amp. The engineer who I worked with on this, John Fields, told me how excited he was to finally get an opportunity to try to clear that up as much as possible. It's not quite as straight forward as it sounds because we had to clean it up without compromising the overall tone, and that was a time consuming process with a lot of A/Bing and testing to make sure we were only improving on the amp!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think you understand EXACTLY why I wanted to make this amp haha.




Oh I don't Misha 

I just haven't heard it yet 


I will most certainly be trying this out since I am at heart a Peavey lover!


I almost think it has to many feature a hahaah


----------



## oniduder

ummm price??

edit!!!!- and really as good as any gate incorporated into an amp might be, i'm incredibly skeptical, plus i figure that the involved (to say the least) footswitch may jack price quite a bit

i've never had any issues with peavey loops, so i don't care if they have 320 of them

i do question the boost, or built in pre preamp thingy, or whatever you want to call it, 

i just don't know, obviously i'm going to have to hear it, in person, to make any judgement, 

i do respect the fact that misha's name isn't all over it, i really really like that

ciao


----------



## narad

So far so good, but the emphasis on US made has me scared what the price will be. If it's $2500+, pretty much getting into used SLO territory. Could be a debate for another place, but to me SLO is like a fancy-pants big metal 5150.


----------



## prlgmnr

For heavens sake everyone, I was doing a joke, it sounds like it could be awesome.

It's called the invective! So I directed some invective at it! Jokes! Wahey!


----------



## jc986

MSRP for the head is $2499.99, so a street price of $1499.99 would be in line with Peavey's other heads. MSRP on the cab is $799.99, so it will be between $480-500 street. Not bad at all for USA made.

I got the MSRP's from http://www.musicradar.com/news/guit...eys-invective-120-amp-brings-the-heavy-647275.


----------



## narad

$1500 would be a great price! I was thinking it'd be more like $2100.


----------



## skmanga

electriceye said:


> I don't get how Peavey can put this out there.....and there are no demos of it. WTF?



Has it even been officially announced?
I'm sure the NAMM release will be the first time anyone will get to hear this new product, followed by a wave of demos by all the big youtube review dudes and even dudettes!


----------



## FILTHnFEAR

jc986 said:


> MSRP for the head is $2499.99, so a street price of $1499.99 would be in line with Peavey's other heads. MSRP on the cab is $799.99, so it will be between $480-500 street. Not bad at all for USA made.
> 
> I got the MSRP's from http://www.musicradar.com/news/guit...eys-invective-120-amp-brings-the-heavy-647275.



Now that is definitely some good news.  $1500 I can float, much more than that starts to get hard for me to justify with my level of skill, and the fact that I don't gig.

Not sure about the shared eq for the Lead and Crunch channels though.


----------



## theicon2125

jc986 said:


> MSRP for the head is $2499.99, so a street price of $1499.99 would be in line with Peavey's other heads. MSRP on the cab is $799.99, so it will be between $480-500 street. Not bad at all for USA made.
> 
> I got the MSRP's from http://www.musicradar.com/news/guit...eys-invective-120-amp-brings-the-heavy-647275.



I was hoping it would be a little bit lower, but I might have to stretch my budget.


----------



## icipher

And I just bought a Rhodes KSR Orthos II.......


----------



## jc986

The pricing is really pretty great (if that's what it ends up being). EVH charges $1800 for a Mexican made 5153, so I was expecting it to be more than that given that it is being made in the US. I was actually really surprised (pleasantly) to hear that it is being made here since they liquidated most of their US amp production equipment and employees not too long ago. I'd like to see the 6505 and 6505+ lines come back to the states as well.


----------



## narad

icipher said:


> And I just bought a Rhodes KSR Orthos II.......



Regardless, you did the right thing.


----------



## Jaxcharvel

If this thing is legitimately under $2k I may have to finally sell off my beloved Mark V. This looks monstrous.


----------



## bnzboy

Wow the price tag seems very promising.. I hope it is not "assembled" in USA though.


----------



## Jaxcharvel

The 5150 (6505) is already the gold standard for modern metal. The feature set and moden conveniences is amazing. As long as they retain the aggression and rawness of the 5150 series and the price point is under $2k they are going to absolutely slaughter the competition. Bravo Misha and Peavey, bravo.


----------



## Hachetjoel

shoot man, guess I may have to grab one. I just wish it wasn't so damn ugly.


----------



## jc986

Hachetjoel said:


> shoot man, guess I may have to grab one. I just wish it wasn't so damn ugly.



Yeah, I'm not a fan of the aesthetics. Looks like the bastard lovechild of a Diezel and an EVH.


----------



## Jaxcharvel

jc986 said:


> Yeah, I'm not a fan of the aesthetics. Looks like the bastard lovechild of a Diezel and an EVH.


They could have put the original XXX grill on this and made the tolex ...... pink with knobs shaped like nutsacks and i'd still buy it. If it delivers on all it's promises this is THE new modern metal amp.


----------



## narad

Hachetjoel said:


> shoot man, guess I may have to grab one. I just wish it wasn't so damn ugly.



Could probably make a custom faceplate for < $100 -- the bolts attaching it have me hopeful that it'd be an easy swap. But yea, that's the one area where they didn't quite hit it with this.



Jaxcharvel said:


> If it delivers on all it's promises this is THE new modern metal amp.



HahahHA AHAHA HAHA


----------



## jc986

Agreed. If it's lead channel can replace a 5150/5150 II and it has a nice clean channel I'm still buying one. Peavey has really never designed any gear that looks particularly sexy, so I can't say I'm surprised.


----------



## katsumura78

narad said:


> Regardless, you did the right thing.



Heck yeah. Love my Orthos.


----------



## Thrashman

ITT: people voicing their subjective opinions on why they don't like a _signature_ amp.


I think this looks great and I'm looking forward to trying one in person


----------



## budda

Hey Misha, I'll be the first to say it here:

Thanks for putting a lot of used Fractal Audio stuff into the used market .

This amp seems cool and I wish you the best with the venture.

You probably don't remember me, but you may remember your first time in Canada . My how things have changed!


----------



## VigilSerus

Thrashman said:


> ITT: people voicing their subjective opinions on why they don't like a _signature_ amp.
> 
> 
> I think this looks great and I'm looking forward to trying one in person



Ok this is bugging me: I don't think it's a signature amp, press release made it seem like it's just a collaboration, and Misha just said here that it doesn't have his name anywhere other than he helped produce it.


----------



## NorCal_Val

bulb said:


> Very very well. I definitely tested it extensively with all sort of tunings, and with Ch2/3 and the Boost on it can handle those low tunings and keep things very tight and clear!



That's what I was waiting to hear.


----------



## decoy205

Congrats on this man it sounds like a great concept. I think the design is cool. Kudos for taking the oval off the logo. Although I always wondered why they don't use the Peavey logo from the actual original 5150s, or design a newer less cheesy one. 

I use a block letter and this seems to have solved a lot of the issues with that amp. Well done. I can't wait to hear it.


----------



## Jaxcharvel

decoy205 said:


> Congrats on this man it sounds like a great concept. I think the design is cool. Kudos for taking the oval off the logo. Although I always wondered why they don't use the Peavey logo from the actual original 5150s, or design a newer less cheesy one.
> 
> I use a block letter and this seems to have solved a lot of the issues with that amp. Well done. I can't wait to hear it.



I think i'm the only person alive who actually likes the Peavey lightning bolt logo.


----------



## Unleash The Fury

The only thing i dislike about the way this amp looks is the Invective logo font. It just looks to..........plain and sterile. It needs just a tad more "character".


----------



## MattThePenguin

If this is only $1,500 .... is going to come out of my ass


----------



## feraledge

I'm exceptionally eager to hear these and very stoked to hear how they are against a 5153. From the sounds of it, it's very fancy bells and whistles on an already viciously brutal platform. I'm on the EVH train, but it's still on the 5150 rail, so...


----------



## Paincakes

Demo up!



Street price is $1899
Unfortunately (imo) the amp's audio in this demo comes from the Mic Simulated Direct Interface.


----------



## Hachetjoel

I really want this amp to be good. Despite how godawful it looks from the description I'm pretty sure I want this so I hope to God it sounds nothing like that demo.


----------



## feraledge

"Here's a demo with the boost dimed," said no one who ever wanted to make a video that sold a head. Need to hear something other than direct out on this.


----------



## decoy205

Agreed. That was a wall of fizz.


----------



## JD27

Demos live from the NAMM floor always tend to sound like crap.


----------



## decoy205

JD27 said:


> Demos live from the NAMM floor always tend to sound like crap.



Truth. They are usually pretty worthless.


----------



## xzacx

Talk about a bad first impression. I'm no fan of Misha's tone, but it's more that it's not my taste than being bad. This was objectively terrible. That's definitely an unfair way to hear an amp for the first time though. There's no way this could actually sound that bad, essentially being a 5150.


----------



## bulb

Haha that video doesn't sound so hot, might be the DI out, but I even got that to sound good.

Anyways, don't worry, I'll be demoing it tomorrow, hopefully you guys can get a sense of what it really sounds like if that gets filmed.
Been getting awesome feedback from people who have tried it so far, so I'm stoked!


----------



## buriedoutback

bulb said:


> Anyways, don't worry, I'll be demoing it tomorrow, hopefully you guys can get a sense of what it really sounds like if that gets filmed.
> Been getting awesome feedback from people who have tried it so far, so I'm stoked!



I can't watch the video above because I'm at work.

I get the impression that a substantial number of people (fans of yours or otherwise) are going to base their opinion and subsequent GAS for this amp, on your namm demo alone. maybe, maybe not. I suggest having someone mic the cab properly and shoot a semi-pro video. The specs/details on this amp are killer, but we need our ears to agree with our eyes


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

That wasn't Mishas demo. It was just an on-floor NAMM demo using the MSDI. It's hard to get a decent mic'd tone at NAMM.


----------



## buriedoutback

Cool, ya i figured it wasn't his demo above. 
From the comments that came after the demo video, I have to assume any attempt at micing the cab would be infinitely better hehehe




HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> That wasn't Mishas demo. It was just an on-floor NAMM demo using the MSDI. It's hard to get a decent mic'd tone at NAMM.


----------



## Stijnson

Loving the concept of the amp Misha, and I think i speak for many when I say i'll trust your judgement on the sound/features. I hope it does well and that ill find some Kemper profiles of it soon! But to be clear, this is not a pro model then right? 
And please tell me this, why do companies insist on using a terrible emulated out?! I mean how hard can it be to put a proper high quality IR in there to make it actually sound good? 8 inches away from the cone i read somewhere. Cause yeah, thats how metal guys like to mic their amps...


----------



## thraxil

I wouldn't worry too much about the NAMM video. If the amp is really effectively a 5150/6505 with a decent clean channel for under $2k, there's a market for it. All the other features and Misha's name on it are just gravy.


----------



## Tisca

Don't we still have any sounds of this besides that horrible mic sim video from Premiere Guitar?


----------



## technomancer

People need to relax, NAMM is for product announcements and you get some floor demos from various people if you're lucky. Actual availability of this stuff is never for months afterwards and pro-shot and reviewer demos show up before things are available to buy.

NAMM = Not Available yet, Maybe May


----------



## op1e

More amp makers need to collaborate with artists instead of just trying to appeal to the broader market. Seems like wherever you go you get S10, Ranger, Dakota lol. Always a compromise of something that needs bypassed, fixed, or modded.


----------



## Emperoff

I really, really, really don't need this amp. A 5150 III 50W will cover all my needs at half the price and size.

But... But...

This has to be the most cleverly designed amp since the Revv Generator. If by any chance gets close to the 1500$ mark I will have a VERY hard time not buying it.

People hate the front grill design, but I'm already thinking about stamping my band's logo in there since the Peavey logo is off-set.


----------



## SwanWings

People think it's ugly? Weird. It really doesn't look that different than the 5153.


----------



## Petar Bogdanov

technomancer said:


> NAMM = Not Available yet, Maybe May



Where is the gosh darned like button?


----------



## xvultures

budda said:


> Hey Misha, I'll be the first to say it here:
> 
> Thanks for putting a lot of used Fractal Audio stuff into the used market



 If prices drop, I'd be excited.


Bulby bro, how would this change your whole live setup? You're using a laptop with the DAW telling the Axe-FX when to switch patches?


----------



## mniel8195

I love how they embrace that logo!


----------



## Emperoff

More videos. I don't remember how to embed so if anyone wants to fix it, go ahead:


----------



## technomancer

^ fixed your embed... also please tell me I didn't hear the loops are parallel loops at about 3:17?


----------



## feraledge

^ a solid two seconds on the red channel, but you immediately can tell it's in the 5150 lineage in a great way. Stoked to hear Mishas demo.


----------



## katsumura78

What time is Misha's demo happening?


----------



## Tisca

Just another video where they're afraid to really show what it can do. Is it an unfinished prototype?


----------



## prlgmnr

I'm beginning to see why when I tried to make up some overblown complaints for a joke, people thought my complaints were serious.


----------



## Emperoff

technomancer said:


> ^ fixed your embed... also please tell me I didn't hear the loops are parallel loops at about 3:17?



Well he clearly says so. I'm not familiar with the differences between serial and parallel loops, but I do know everyone says that serial is better. I wonder if its something needed for the funky features of the amp.

Misha also said that the loops are"super clean" specially designed to work with modellers, so I'd guess they're also SS instead of tube.


----------



## technomancer

Emperoff said:


> Well he clearly says so. I'm not familiar with the differences between serial and parallel loops, but I do know everyone says that serial is better. I wonder if its something needed for the funky features of the amp.
> 
> Misha also said that the loops are"super clean" specially designed to work with modellers, so I'd guess they're also SS instead of tube.



Serial all signal goes through the loop, parallel the signal is split and goes through the loop and to the power section at the same time so you always have an unaffected signal. Generally unless you're running a wet / dry setup parallel loops are a pain in the nuts.


----------



## cmtd

Why do they get these people to demo this gear. This is obviously directed at metal guitarists. So the solution is to have some guy chug an E, in standard tuning (not to mention horribly out of tune), on the high gain channel? 

Furthermore, I'd be very disappointed if this had parallel loops. Watching the video, I don't even know that I believe this peavey rep. He sure didn't seem very confident and kind of talking out of his ass.


This amp looks like it will be pretty killer. My hope is that this is a prototype and it gets a facelift. The aesthetic is just not pleasing.


----------



## Paincakes

Here's one from Sweetwater. Just talking about the features, no sound clip.


----------



## endmysuffering

cmtd said:


> Why do they get these people to demo this gear. This is obviously directed at metal guitarists. So the solution is to have some guy chug an E, in standard tuning (not to mention horribly out of tune), on the high gain channel?
> 
> Furthermore, I'd be very disappointed if this had parallel loops. Watching the video, I don't even know that I believe this peavey rep. He sure didn't seem very confident and kind of talking out of his ass.
> 
> 
> This amp looks like it will be pretty killer. My hope is that this is a prototype and it gets a facelift. The aesthetic is just not pleasing.



Real talk here, why does an amp have to be aesthetically pleasing If you already know how it sounds? Looks are just for marketing but we're all gonna know how it sounds.


----------



## cmtd

endmysuffering said:


> Real talk here, why does an amp have to be aesthetically pleasing If you already know how it sounds? Looks are just for marketing but we're all gonna know how it sounds.



I don't know how it sounds based of a couple of low quality youtube clips. The specs look very appealing, I'm speculating.

Ummm... I prefer gear that looks good? I think most people do, hence the premiums people pay for exotic/premium top guitars, cars, etc.


----------



## Paincakes

endmysuffering said:


> Real talk here, why does an amp have to be aesthetically pleasing If you already know how it sounds? Looks are just for marketing but we're all gonna know how it sounds.



I think visual design is pretty important to some extent. A Marshall Plexi, Orange, 5150, and Kemper, etc, all have very different aesthetics that may or may not speak to certain users. While the tone is the determining factor on why *you* would pick one over another, the amps appearance can play a significant role for others.


----------



## endmysuffering

Paincakes said:


> I think visual design is pretty important to some extent. A Marshall Plexi, Orange, 5150, and Kemper, etc, all have very different aesthetics that may or may not speak to certain users. While the tone is the determining factor on why *you* would pick one over another, the amps appearance can play a significant role for others.



I agree, that's why I stated "for marketing". I just thought that sso users were different when it came to amps.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

If anything i think a lot of SSO users care more about looks than sound and quality. 

I don't get it with amps. Usually they're hidden away.


----------



## oniduder

yeah i didn't think the look of the amp too questionable, i find some of the features questionable though

pros- 
built in power supply for pedals
midi
not sure,
cons-
skeptical about the gate
skeptical about built in tube screamer or whatever 
parallel loops seems strange, 

seems that they'd put a parallel and a series loop in there, given there's two of them, or have them switchable idk?!

who cares, peavey is going to sell a boat load of these

my opinion is frankly lost in the noise of thousands 

so screw it


----------



## SwingMachine

cmtd said:


> Why do they get these people to demo this gear. This is obviously directed at metal guitarists. So the solution is to have some guy chug an E, in standard tuning (not to mention horribly out of tune), on the high gain channel?



Reminds me of this...


----------



## Jacksonluvr636




----------



## feraledge

endmysuffering said:


> Real talk here, why does an amp have to be aesthetically pleasing If you already know how it sounds? Looks are just for marketing but we're all gonna know how it sounds.



Real talk, because Peavey has been letting us all down after they hit it so out of the park with the XXX aesthetics.


----------



## Emperoff

If you check the actual Peavey news article, it say it has "paralleled speaker outputs". There's still the possibility that the guy testing the amp has no ....ing clue about what he's talking about


----------



## Vairish

katsumura78 said:


> What time is Misha's demo happening?



It's streaming live right now on Peaveys Facebook page.


----------



## technomancer

Emperoff said:


> If you check the actual Peavey news article, it say it has "paralleled speaker outputs". There's still the possibility that the guy testing the amp has no ....ing clue about what he's talking about



Could very well be. Booth staff are usually sales guys at the larger companies like Peavey... which is what cracks me up about guys complaining about who was "picked to demo". They're booth staff that humored somebody with a camera, that they play at all is a bonus. The demos are scheduled with artists at regular times.


----------



## feraledge

Sounds like it was described, which means it sounds awesome. Will be watching this for sure as they roll out.


----------



## WarMachine

Emperoff said:


> If you check the actual Peavey news article, it say it has "paralleled speaker outputs". There's still the possibility that the guy testing the amp has no ....ing clue about what he's talking about


 I kind of got the same impression when he was asked about the tubes: "Um, we have 6L6 power amp tubes...and we have..........6 preamp rubes"  pretty sure premier guitar only got half the answer they were looking for lol


----------



## Spinedriver

Tisca said:


> Just another video where they're afraid to really show what it can do. Is it an unfinished prototype?



Bulb did say that they had just finished it in time to bring it to NAMM. There's always a chance they could make a few tweaks before it goes into production but it'll probably stay as it is. As for demos, once they get it into a proper studio setting where they can mic it up properly, I'm sure the demos will improve significantly.


----------



## will_shred

This thing looks pretty sweet, but not "sell my mesa" sweet, apples and oranges.


----------



## bulb

oniduder said:


> yeah i didn't think the look of the amp too questionable, i find some of the features questionable though
> 
> pros-
> built in power supply for pedals
> midi
> not sure,
> cons-
> skeptical about the gate
> skeptical about built in tube screamer or whatever
> parallel loops seems strange,
> 
> seems that they'd put a parallel and a series loop in there, given there's two of them, or have them switchable idk?!
> 
> who cares, peavey is going to sell a boat load of these
> 
> my opinion is frankly lost in the noise of thousands
> 
> so screw it



To be clear:

2 SERIAL loops, in sequence. 1 feeds to 2.

The gate is so tight that I don't run it past 6 haha, doesn't matter how loud the amp is, it will silence it!

The TS style OD is very much a crowd pleasing middle of the road style boost, doesn't cut a ton of low end out, but tightens everything up nicely and as you would expect if you use a TS style boost in front of your amp.


----------



## Gmork

Hey Bulb thanks for the inside scoop! really appreciate it. this is damn close to what i would personally ask for in a custom amp so im pretty excited for this despite knowing it will be far outside of my budget anytime in the foreseeable future. might have to sell off my 6505 and some other stuff. Very nice to see Peavey back to form!


----------



## 4Eyes

The most important question - does it go to 11?


----------



## theicon2125

https://www.facebook.com/PeaveyElectronics/videos/10153996754086256/

Here's Misha's demo. I have no idea how to embed it though


----------



## philkilla

That thing sounds super angry and pissed off. Very cool Misha


----------



## Emperoff

I'm actually pretty surprised by the clean channel. It's the exact opposite of what I was expecting. Being designed for closed cabinets I thought it was going to sound less "boxy" and more open and sparkly (even more considering the kind of clean sound Misha uses). But it's actually the opposite: very fat and compressed. 

Perhaps if we want hi-gain with pristine cleans it *still* may not be the amp to go for...


----------



## Hachetjoel

Emperoff said:


> I'm actually pretty surprised by the clean channel. It's the exact opposite of what I was expecting. Being designed for closed cabinets I thought it was going to sound less "boxy" and more open and sparkly (even more considering the kind of clean sound Misha uses). But it's actually the opposite: very fat and compressed.
> 
> Perhaps if we want hi-gain with pristine cleans it *still* may not be the amp to go for...



You have to take into account the quality and compression of that video so we'll see sounds good despite the fact excited to play it in stores. But the go to amp for cleans and high gain is definitely ksr


----------



## oniduder

bulb said:


> To be clear:
> 
> 2 SERIAL loops, in sequence. 1 feeds to 2.
> 
> The gate is so tight that I don't run it past 6 haha, doesn't matter how loud the amp is, it will silence it!
> 
> The TS style OD is very much a crowd pleasing middle of the road style boost, doesn't cut a ton of low end out, but tightens everything up nicely and as you would expect if you use a TS style boost in front of your amp.



damnit misha, don't get me excited about this, i'm only being negative because i'm poor, 

thanks though for the info


----------



## bulb

Emperoff said:


> I'm actually pretty surprised by the clean channel. It's the exact opposite of what I was expecting. Being designed for closed cabinets I thought it was going to sound less "boxy" and more open and sparkly (even more considering the kind of clean sound Misha uses). But it's actually the opposite: very fat and compressed.
> 
> Perhaps if we want hi-gain with pristine cleans it *still* may not be the amp to go for...



Yeah it's definitely a fat sounding and more compressed sounding clean made to match the tone and dynamics of the other channels. But don't be fooled, it will sound pristine, and when you split it it won't sound thin or nasally. Put some delay and Reverb in the loop and you have Misha clean haha


----------



## Wizard of Ozz

... but does it djent?



Anyone else think it looks horrible? Like an early '80s amp or something too retro?


----------



## devnull

I'm still shocked at the amount of destiny bros out there. While I want to buy this amp, I just can't get with anything that carries a name of the shotgun meta 

Should have named it hawkmoon in hopes bungie would read this and bring the best gun ever back to its former glory without the stupid ghost bullets! Palidrome being a close second of course. 

If you ever want to run banner or trials, add me PSN: devnullish


----------



## narad

Wizard of Ozz said:


> Anyone else think it looks horrible? Like an early '80s amp or something too retro?



I would love retro. This just looks cheap (in terms of the faceplate, the kind of way the holes are punched). But hoping it'd be easy to replace -- Misha, do you know if it's just those 4 bolts holding it on?


----------



## runbirdman

Wizard of Ozz said:


> Anyone else think it looks horrible? Like an early '80s amp or something too retro?



I think it looks great. I'm just hoping it does other things other than djent well. I'd love a 6505 with more than one usable channel. Have they mentioned whether or not it has a built in power soak or attenuator?


----------



## narad

runbirdman said:


> I think it looks great. I'm just hoping it does other things other than djent well. I'd love a 6505 with more than one usable channel. Have they mentioned whether or not it has a built in power soak or attenuator?



It's pretty obvious it'll do "other things" that 5150s do, and full/half switching, as said in the NAMM presentation.


----------



## pkgitar

Sounds awesome in the facebook demo, horrible in the Premier demo. Close micing at NAMM shouldn't be a thing...

I kind of like the simplistic look of it actually.


----------



## kevdes93

Looks like these are gonna street at 1899$


----------



## runbirdman

narad said:


> It's pretty obvious it'll do "other things" that 5150s do, and full/half switching, as said in the NAMM presentation.



I don't think the versatility of the amp is "obvious" yet. It'll take more than two videos before I'm confident this amp can do more than the 6505. I just haven't cared for at least one of the channels on any Peavey amp I've ever tried, so I apologize for sounding skeptical.

I am excited for a new entry from Peavey and will definitely give it a try.


----------



## Bearitone

VERY happy with direction you decided to go with the clean channel Misha. I love a really fat clean channel. Stoked.

I told myself I would never go back to tubes but, damn it's more tempting than ever now


----------



## MattThePenguin

$1,900 is a bit too steep for this year's budget. I'll probably get the cab, because my cab is good but not great, and I want to downsize from a 4x12.


----------



## sawtoothscream

Misha video anywhere yet? the others dont do it any favors


----------



## rebornself27

sounds great love the concept credit card is ready to charge Peavey lol


----------



## katsumura78

I noticed the footswitch can recall up to 9 presets. Does that mean it'll save different amp settings per preset ? Sorry if that's a stupid question lol but I've been seeing these H&K programmable tube amps pop up so I'm wondering if this amp can pull that off.


----------



## crankyrayhanky

I think the presets will likely control the 3 channels selection, gate, OD, loop ON & Off (not gain and eq settings)

The shared eq is a bit of a bummer. In my dream world I'd probably ditch the OD and even the gate to get a true 3 channel...running an OD up front is not much hassle. 

Still salivating on this amp, just nitpicking because I'm hungry and cranky, lol


----------



## Emperoff

Hachetjoel said:


> You have to take into account the quality and compression of that video so we'll see sounds good despite the fact excited to play it in stores. But the go to amp for cleans and high gain is definitely ksr



I wasn't talking about the audio (which is obviously crap), but rather Misha's explanation, confirmed here:



bulb said:


> Yeah it's definitely a fat sounding and more compressed sounding clean made to match the tone and dynamics of the other channels. But don't be fooled, it will sound pristine, and when you split it it won't sound thin or nasally. Put some delay and Reverb in the loop and you have Misha clean haha



I don't doubt it will sound great. I just happen to like stratty/funky cleans 



runbirdman said:


> I don't think the versatility of the amp is "obvious" yet. It'll take more than two videos before I'm confident this amp can do more than the 6505. I just haven't cared for at least one of the channels on any Peavey amp I've ever tried, so I apologize for sounding skeptical.
> 
> I am excited for a new entry from Peavey and will definitely give it a try.



Dude? If you didn't like the previous generations it's highly unlikely you'll like this one . Also, do you really need more videos to be confident that this amp will be more versatile? It's got another damn channel (clean, which the others didn't have), 2 boosts, noise gate, integrated 9v power supply, 1/2W switching and a midi controller... Seriously, what ELSE do you need as a proof?


----------



## runbirdman

My point is I'm interested to the point I will seek one out to try it out in person. If it's a 6505 with a great clean channel, I will buy one after trying it out. I have never purchased an amp or any gear for that matter without trying it out or basing a $2000 purchase on watching YouTube videos or reading a spec sheet. I completely commend Peavey for putting out a new piece of high end gear, I just hope it fits what I'm looking for.


----------



## btbg

sawtoothscream said:


> Misha video anywhere yet? the others dont do it any favors



Misha's video didn't do a whole lot of anything either.

Not to mention the amp ....ting the bed 18 minutes in.


----------



## Bearitone

btbg said:


> Misha's video didn't do a whole lot of anything either.
> 
> Not to mention the amp ....ting the bed 18 minutes in.



Eh... Isn't that essentially a test model or final prototype? I wouldn't worry about quality. I've never heard a single bad thing about the reliability or functionality of any USA made Peavey amps. These amps have ALOT going one but, I doubt we'll see any major hiccups in QC once production is started.


----------



## MattThePenguin

It was a little awkward haha but I thought they handled it pretty well. I was really interested in what Misha had to say there so I hope he touches up on it with one of his demos.


----------



## feraledge

kindsage said:


> Eh... Isn't that essentially a test model or final prototype? I wouldn't worry about quality. I've never heard a single bad thing about the reliability or functionality of any USA made Peavey amps. These amps have ALOT going one but, I doubt we'll see any major hiccups in QC once production is started.



 Very much this. 
I'll say this much about Peavey, I got a "scratch and dent" 6505 once right before recording and playing some out of town shows. When I opened the box (in the studio), it looked like it fell off of a forklift. The front was busted off, things looked smashed. But I needed to use it while they worked out a replacement. Even though it had clearly lost the battle against larger machines and gravity, the only thing that was wrong with it? The effects loop was a little wonky. 
Peavey makes workhorses. A prototype is a prototype.


----------



## feraledge

Being totally honest: I was playing my 5153 today and seriously thought that I hope this amp turns out to be Peavey answering the EVH trends well because I get sick of having to reach behind the head to turn it off and on.


----------



## rockskate4x

when misha said that he prefers that cab to his zilla, makes me wonder if it would gel nicely with my 5153 50w


----------



## xzacx

Hachetjoel said:


> But the go to amp for cleans and high gain is definitely ksr



The Herbert is my top choice for that. I think it's almost worth owning for the cleans alone. That first channel is criminally underrated - you can go from a slightly warmer JC-120 type tone, to power tube breakup (at decent volume even, thanks to the global master). I don't love the 3rd channel, but the amp certainly does high gain. 

VHT's Deliverance 60/120 will also do pristine cleans and high gain, and does a pretty solid job of everything in between too. Tremendous range of tones for the money. 

Back to _this_ amp though, the clean sounds really promising in Misha's demo. If you don't have the money for a Diezel, and need channel switching or a loop (which the Deliverance doesn't have), this could turn out to be a great option. I suspect there is a probably a pretty big segment of players out there who would like a high gain amp with good cleans, with channel switching versatility, in a semi-affordable package. And while there are other options, none are as widely available or have as much name recognition as Peavey. I think this was a really smart amp to build.


----------



## Djentlyman

Keen as a bean for this! Please give one to Fluff, Glen Fricker and Ola to do a review for us!


----------



## Snarpaasi

Djentlyman said:


> Keen as a bean for this! Please give one to Fluff, Glen Fricker and Ola to do a review for us!



Don't you already know what it sounds like in Ola's hands


----------



## Andromalia

So, now the djent sound path is boost/gate Misha Pedal into the Boost/gate section of this amp ? This brings in the burning question..... 

Where do the compressors fit in ?


----------



## bulb

kindsage said:


> Eh... Isn't that essentially a test model or final prototype? I wouldn't worry about quality. I've never heard a single bad thing about the reliability or functionality of any USA made Peavey amps. These amps have ALOT going one but, I doubt we'll see any major hiccups in QC once production is started.



Yeah it turned out to be some of the shielding had come off slightly during shipping and was touching one of the wires. Easy fix, and not a problem with the mass produced models. These ones are all built by John Fields, who is an absolutely brilliant engineer, but sometimes we get little glitches because of all the changes.

He's actually tweaking the design as we speak, because we had revised the rhythm tones a hair on the latest revision of the amp to make them even fatter without sacrificing harmonics or top end air, but that didn't make it in time for the NAMM models. It's only like a 5% difference, but we want this thing to blow everything out of the water when it ships hehe!


----------



## bulb

Andromalia said:


> So, now the djent sound path is boost/gate Misha Pedal into the Boost/gate section of this amp ? This brings in the burning question.....
> 
> Where do the compressors fit in ?



You COULD put a compressor up front, or in one of the loops, but it's honestly a lot less necessary on this amp with the clean kinda dialed in to be kinda compressed already. I might run compression just on cleans, but the dirty channels really really don't need it.


----------



## Universe74

Since nobody has posted it yet.

https://www.facebook.com/PeaveyElectronics/videos/10153996754086256/


----------



## InCasinoOut

Universe74 said:


> Since nobody has posted it yet.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/PeaveyElectronics/videos/10153996754086256/



Lol it was already posted a couple pages ago.


----------



## drmosh

i'm surprised they marketed this as "just" a 6505 with nice cleans


----------



## CapnForsaggio

drmosh said:


> i'm surprised they marketed this as "just" a 6505 with nice cleans



Every high gain amp they have made since the block 5150 has been, 'like a 5150, but with better CLEANS.'

Usually they are right, but sometimes they fudge up the gains.... like on the 6505II.


----------



## Emperoff

bulb said:


> You COULD put a compressor up front, or in one of the loops, but it's honestly a lot less necessary on this amp with the clean kinda dialed in to be kinda compressed already. I might run compression just on cleans, but the dirty channels really really don't need it.



Misha, since you have plenty of experience with it... Could you please tell us (extra features aside) how do the 3 channels sound compared to the EVH 5150 III? It obviously is its direct competitor


----------



## Miek

Very cool. Definitely want to try it out and maybe replace my 6505+ with one. And if it's able to nail it maybe my JSX too haha. The cab seems cool but it also seems like would pair well with my closed back orange 212


----------



## MattThePenguin

Hoping I can get some sick ass AHAB cleans with the block letter gain channel.


----------



## Universe74

InCasinoOut said:


> Lol it was already posted a couple pages ago.



Ah well no harm!


----------



## btbg

drmosh said:


> i'm surprised they marketed this as "just" a 6505 with nice cleans



They... Didn't?


----------



## MattThePenguin

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Invective212

Cab is $650 =D


----------



## Garfish

Emperoff said:


> Misha, since you have plenty of experience with it... Could you please tell us (extra features aside) how do the 3 channels sound compared to the EVH 5150 III? It obviously is its direct competitor



This please


----------



## bulb

Emperoff said:


> Misha, since you have plenty of experience with it... Could you please tell us (extra features aside) how do the 3 channels sound compared to the EVH 5150 III? It obviously is its direct competitor



Sure, I have both the 100w and the 50w 5150III, so it's pretty easy to compare.
I actually think the 50w sounds better for what it's worth, the blue channel is dialed in better, and it has a resonance knob.

Anyways, I actually dig the 5150III quite a bit, my main qualms with it are that the mids always have this kinda "notched" quality which isn't really affected by the amp eq, and even though there are 3 channels, the clean is still kinda garbage on it. The 5150III's clean needs the gain to be set quite low if you don't want any dirt, and then it sounds kind of anemic and thin. The Invective by comparison has a warm and fat clean channel. Want it to have some dirt? Just put on the OD.

Ch2 is nice on the 5150III if you want a tight rhythm sound but still kinda tough to get good saturation from if you want, even with a TS in front I find it's still a little thin sounding. The Invective by comparison has a very fat and low mid rich Ch2 which goes from tight crunch to full on pissed off saturation, and that's before you even engage the amp's boost.

Ch3 is definitely the highlight of the 5150III and I can't fault it much, but the overall "notched" mids aren't always to my taste. I find it's the kind of thing that sounds pretty cool when I'm jamming, but when I'm recording, it never sits in the mix as well as I would expect. By contrast, Ch3 on the Invective is the most like the old Block letter, at least in terms of character. It has the rich mids and harmonics of Ch2 with quite a bit more gain on tap, but the low mid purr has been traded for some high mid aggression. This really cuts nicely through the mix if you have aggressive riffs, even more so if you activate the boost. 

Another thing on the Invective (that I wasn't able to fully demonstrate in the demo) is how much the nature of the amp changes if you dime the channel volume vs the master. If you dime channel volumes and keep the master down, the overall sound of the amp is a lot more midrange focused, and kinda smoother in the top end. If you dime the master volume and keep the channel volumes down, you get way more "air' and top end sparkle, with a more scooped midrange. Obviously you can adjust between the two sounds by playing with the relative volumes, and it's a very nice touch, especially for recording!

I hope that answers your questions!


----------



## Carvinkook

Congrats on the build, I think you hit it out of the park man! Very well thought out and packed with great features.


----------



## duffbeer33

This looks like a game changer. I've been waiting for something like this. Can't wait to try it out. Think it might be time to finally upgrade the old Rectoverb 50.


----------



## bulb

duffbeer33 said:


> This looks like a game changer. I've been waiting for something like this. Can't wait to try it out. Think it might be time to finally upgrade the old Rectoverb 50.



We spent almost 3 years on it with the goal of it being a gamechanger. So I really hope people love it!


----------



## feraledge

I didn't even catch that it has a master volume. My 5153 is starting to sweat a little.


----------



## MattThePenguin

BOI


----------



## benny

MattThePenguin said:


> BOI




That felt so awkward.


----------



## MattThePenguin

benny said:


> That felt so awkward.



As awkward as it was I still felt the dreams come true when he chugged some chords out. I wish GG didn't edit out the clean demo bit.

I think I realized what I don't like about the amp aesthetically.. I think I just wish all of it was black. It reminds me of why you see a crap ton of white EVH amps, because the black ones look kinda goofy with the white panel.


----------



## Emperoff

bulb said:


> Sure, I have both the 100w and the 50w 5150III, so it's pretty easy to compare.
> I actually think the 50w sounds better for what it's worth, the blue channel is dialed in better, and it has a resonance knob.
> 
> Anyways, I actually dig the 5150III quite a bit, my main qualms with it are that the mids always have this kinda "notched" quality which isn't really affected by the amp eq, and even though there are 3 channels, the clean is still kinda garbage on it. The 5150III's clean needs the gain to be set quite low if you don't want any dirt, and then it sounds kind of anemic and thin. The Invective by comparison has a warm and fat clean channel. Want it to have some dirt? Just put on the OD.
> 
> Ch2 is nice on the 5150III if you want a tight rhythm sound but still kinda tough to get good saturation from if you want, even with a TS in front I find it's still a little thin sounding. The Invective by comparison has a very fat and low mid rich Ch2 which goes from tight crunch to full on pissed off saturation, and that's before you even engage the amp's boost.
> 
> Ch3 is definitely the highlight of the 5150III and I can't fault it much, but the overall "notched" mids aren't always to my taste. I find it's the kind of thing that sounds pretty cool when I'm jamming, but when I'm recording, it never sits in the mix as well as I would expect. By contrast, Ch3 on the Invective is the most like the old Block letter, at least in terms of character. It has the rich mids and harmonics of Ch2 with quite a bit more gain on tap, but the low mid purr has been traded for some high mid aggression. This really cuts nicely through the mix if you have aggressive riffs, even more so if you activate the boost.
> 
> Another thing on the Invective (that I wasn't able to fully demonstrate in the demo) is how much the nature of the amp changes if you dime the channel volume vs the master. If you dime channel volumes and keep the master down, the overall sound of the amp is a lot more midrange focused, and kinda smoother in the top end. If you dime the master volume and keep the channel volumes down, you get way more "air' and top end sparkle, with a more scooped midrange. Obviously you can adjust between the two sounds by playing with the relative volumes, and it's a very nice touch, especially for recording!
> 
> I hope that answers your questions!



Thanks for your in-depth response! 

Judging by the character of the tone in the latest clip by Gear Gods, it seems to be spot on. It sounds monstruous! It indeed sounds more like the original 5150 I had than a 5150 III. The "notched" mids of the 5150 III are somewhat its tone signature and (while I love it) it definetely is in the "thin side".

Funny and ironic that I returned it because I needed a clean channel. I guess life goes full circle 



MattThePenguin said:


> As awkward as it was I still felt the dreams come true when he chugged some chords out. I wish GG didn't edit out the clean demo bit.
> 
> I think I realized what I don't like about the amp aesthetically.. I think I just wish all of it was black. It reminds me of why you see a crap ton of white EVH amps, because the black ones look kinda goofy with the white panel.



I almost crap my pants when I heard the distorted tone. All the previous demos were soooo bad than I didn't expect it to sound so good. The clean channel sounds fat and punchy, it's clean but it has guts. I like it


----------



## KailM

The drive tone sounds just like it should -- an ORIGINAL 5150. Probably even sounds better once you play around with it.

Interested to hear more clips of the clean channel -- that's going to boost sales I think...of the Invective ....AND used EVH 5150 IIIs.

If I'd only known about this amp a month ago I probably wouldn't have bought my 6505 head...


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

I find that interesting with the MV. With the master dimed, I expected more midrange and compression.

If anything this makes me wanna trade my 5150II for a 5150/6505.


----------



## benny

Yeah, I'm not sure how I feel about the amp yet. I don't feel like I need to sell my 6505+ immediately to help fund this revision though. Most of the additional features are meaningless for me. I'll hold my judgment until I can play one in person. 

I do wonder how much the footswitch adds to the cost (vs a "standard" footswitch).


----------



## MASS DEFECT

How does this act with 4 Cable Method with Fractal products, Misha? The og 5150 was hard to work and balance with 4CM with an Axe Fx or AX8.

How clean is the power amp? Can I also use it as a clean power amp for some of my Axe FX patches that have full amp models? Or is it like my 5150, that is better with pre models?


----------



## Unleash The Fury

How loud was the amp turned up to at that demo? Was it attenuated? Also another thing to remember, i would assume that those speakers havent been broken in yet


----------



## Garfish

So it's $1900usd on Sweetwater https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/InvectiveH

So for us EU dudes, we should probably add atleast 20% on top of that.


----------



## Kryss

just ran across this amp, looks very interesting. I was going to dump my backup line6 hd147 later this year and get another tube amp head. had been eyeing getting a used mark4 or jp 2c+ but have always been a big peavey fan. the fact that this has midi is awesome. looking forward to possibly picking one up once I get a chance to hear one in action.

just heard the namm demo. omfg this amp sounds disgusting it's so brutal. I'm sold


----------



## icipher

This amp looks super cool and if I hadn't just bough a KSR Orthos ii i would strongly consider it.

My take on this thing is that it's a cleaner/clearer/tighter 5150 with wayyyy more tonal flexibility. And that, Misha, sounds pretty perfect.

I'd buy this thing in a heartbeat over the stiff EVH 5150 III.


----------



## mikah912

It's so funny how the pendulum swings because the consensus when the EVH 5150 III came out was that it was a smoother, clearer and more versatile 5150 with a way better clean channel. Now, it's....not?

That's not a ding on Misha or anyone else crushing on this amp. I'm sure it'll sound great. That base 5150/6505 voicing is immortal.

It's just weird how the cycle of these things goes.


----------



## icipher

mikah912 said:


> It's so funny how the pendulum swings because the consensus when the EVH 5150 III came out was that it was a smoother, clearer and more versatile 5150 with a way better clean channel. Now, it's....not?
> 
> That's not a ding on Misha or anyone else crushing on this amp. I'm sure it'll sound great. That base 5150/6505 voicing is immortal.
> 
> It's just weird how the cycle of these things goes.



I never got the 5150 3 hype. I played a couple and thought they were lifeless. Yes they are stiffer and tighter than the original but they lack the beautiful swirling saturation the peavey does. I couldn't stand the amp and I can make most high gain heads sound good.


----------



## RustInPeace

The clean channel on the 5153 is definitely better than the old 5150s, but its still pretty lifeless. I use 4cm with a pod hd and just use a clean amp sim instead. 

Has the price of this leaked out yet?


----------



## benny

RustInPeace said:


> Has the price of this leaked out yet?





Garfish said:


> So it's $1900usd on Sweetwater https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/InvectiveH




Yup.


----------



## katsumura78

We need a proper demo of this thing, with effects of course. Excited that the clean was voiced to sound good with closed back cabinets too. Once I pick one up it'll be an amp battle to see which 2 stay (JP-2C, Orthos MkII or invective) .


----------



## MattThePenguin

katsumura78 said:


> We need a proper demo of this thing, with effects of course. Excited that the clean was voiced to sound good with closed back cabinets too. Once I pick one up it'll be an amp battle to see which 2 stay (JP-2C, Orthos MkII or invective) .



God... those amps <3


----------



## crwnedblasphemy

I went on sweetwater as well as watched your namm vid, can someone tell me the cab dimensions? Actually interested in it to pair with my EVH 100s. I have been looking for a 2x12 for 6 months now, and can never decide. I also have the EVH 2x12 combo, so I absolutely love that amp, the greenbacks 8 ohms in series sound killer. Funny thing is I really didn't like 16ohm greenbacks in my splawn 4x12 that I have since sold. 

Love the sound of zilla fatboys from all the clips, but Paul quoted me $890 to get one here in Cali, which is a lot...

This cab looks like it might be a winner for me to pair with my head.


----------



## elborracho

Very short video of friend jamming (distortion) on the gear at NAMM .
Sorry, no idea what channel he was in.
(rec thru crap phone)

https://www.facebook.com/hatefx/videos/10154253583892078/


----------



## HUGH JAYNUS

im getting one period. 

but for looks, i like it. and i think the white panels make for better visibility. especially in the dark on stage where it counts. this thing is all about function and practicality. besides, that grille is coming off immediately and LEDs are going in.


----------



## rockskate4x

Something has been bugging me about this. Misha keeps saying the cab has a vintage 30 but other guys in the namm videos have been saying a v-type which I assumed was shorthand for vintage 30, except I found out that celestion does manufacture a "v-type" and this appears to be different. Which is it? And if it is a type rather than a true vintage 30, what differences can I expect? Also, is the creamback a g12h 75? That would seem to be consistent with Misha saying it was a 75 watt speaker.


----------



## technomancer

It's not going to ship for at least several more months, I'm sure actual specs will be published by the time it ships


----------



## bulb

It's definitely not a V Type haha.
It's the V30 and G12H 75 combo I have been using for a while now in a pine Peavey cab.


----------



## rockskate4x

bulb said:


> It's definitely not a V Type haha.
> It's the V30 and G12H 75 combo I have been using for a while now in a pine Peavey cab.



Thank's, man. I am in the market for an oversized 2x12 and this looks super rad. I'm very very interested, especially if you think that it slays your zilla cabs.


----------



## katsumura78

Any other company make a stock cab out of pine? I have that speaker combo in a port city and it sounds killer. Sometimes I wish I would've gone 2 creambacks or one creamback neo.


----------



## bulb

katsumura78 said:


> Any other company make a stock cab out of pine? I have that speaker combo in a port city and it sounds killer. Sometimes I wish I would've gone 2 creambacks or one creamback neo.



I'm not sure, to be honest I had never heard of pine being used for a cab before and I wasn't crazy about the idea initially, but John Fields said that his favorite cab of all time was pine and that I should at least try it out, man I'm glad I listened to him haha


----------



## technomancer

Pine has been used for guitar cabs going all the way back to the Fender Tweed amps in the 50s.


----------



## MattThePenguin

Finally a good sounding demo of the cleans! Sounds beautiful!

Also this totally answers my can it get AHAB cleans question. I want this so baaaaaaad


----------



## 4Eyes

technomancer said:


> Pine has been used for guitar cabs going all the way back to the Fender Tweed amps in the 50s.


also lot of DIY-ers used pine instead of ply with great success


----------



## crwnedblasphemy

Funny thing man. I was thinking that channel 2 had some heavy Devy tones, and then u busted in with some Townsend riffs. I felt it coming. Lol


----------



## decoy205

Love what I'm hearing from this amp. It seems like it will deliver on all the promises unlike some have in the past.


----------



## Unleash The Fury

Hard to tell from the demo how the cleans actually sound due to it being soaking wet


----------



## bulb

Unleash The Fury said:


> Hard to tell from the demo how the cleans actually sound due to it being soaking wet



In the beginning you can hear it dry, kinda funny though, I only put reverb and delay because in the last demo I did a bunch of people said they wanted to hear it with Reverb and Delay hahah


----------



## MattThePenguin

bulb said:


> In the beginning you can hear it dry, kinda funny though, I only put reverb and delay because in the last demo I did a bunch of people said they wanted to hear it with Reverb and Delay hahah



Yeah as soon as you hit that first note I was in. That's totally the tone I'm looking for. Gonna look into these pedals but I'm going to take a wild guess and say that they're a bit expensive hehe

Edit: Yup, just checked. Holy cow. You get what you pay for I guess, but as my first reverb/delay I could go for something a bit lower.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

the amp sounds great.


----------



## Matt08642

bulb said:


> In the beginning you can hear it dry, kinda funny though, I only put reverb and delay because in the last demo I did a bunch of people said they wanted to hear it with Reverb and Delay hahah



Man that delay and reverb reminded me hard of Devin, then you busted out some Devin  Sounds killer


----------



## feraledge

Goddammit, you really nailed this one Bulb. I'm going to end up buying the quarter stack when I can... Sounds killer and the options are awesome.


----------



## Kryss

great demo. I'm sold. those cleans sound fantastic and the distortion is so brutal sounding. this amp and the jp2c just seem like they are in a class of their own from the demos I've heard.


----------



## Black_Sheep

EU price? release date?


----------



## elhantiri

Would it be possible to retube the amp without going through the usual hassles of tubes bias since peavey's are mostly fixe bias amps ? It would be wonderful to just take out the old tubes when they give up the ghost and to put new power tubes of the same grade without the use of a bias meter or any dissipation calculations and what not!


----------



## xCaptainx

Moving over from a Laney Ironheart to this. I've owned four different 5150s over the last 15 years. 

A block letter style 5150 with an actual clean channel + build in gate, od and two serial effects loops, plus a Destiny reference? I could kiss you. Instant purchase for me once they hit New Zealand.


----------



## lewis

Damn i cannot wait until the big guns roll out Kemper profile packs of this beasts clean and lead channels!!!!!


----------



## Jacksonluvr636

MattThePenguin said:


> Finally a good sounding demo of the cleans! Sounds beautiful!
> 
> Also this totally answers my can it get AHAB cleans question. I want this so baaaaaaad




Very impressed. This is a perfect demo, sounds killer.

I was interested when I heard about it but honestly after the NAMM vids I lost interest but this video regains my interest and then some.


----------



## Stijnson

Misha Im not sure you know about it this, but Xûr seems to have gotten a head start and is selling the Invective this weekend. You should probably talk to Peavey about that.


----------



## VBCheeseGrater

Very cool! I dig the abilities from the foot controller, looks like it was designed by someone that wants to be able to easily integrate all their FX and make them easy to turn on/off,without too much tap dancing and tone suckage. This type of thing definitely gets my attention.


----------



## cwhitey2

Stijnson said:


> Misha Im not sure you know about it this, but Xûr seems to have gotten a head start and is selling the Invective this weekend. You should probably talk to Peavey about that.



Probably just pre-sales like anything that's new.


----------



## MrYakob

cwhitey2 said:


> Probably just pre-sales like anything that's new.



I believe he is making a Destiny joke


----------



## bulb

Stijnson said:


> Misha Im not sure you know about it this, but Xûr seems to have gotten a head start and is selling the Invective this weekend. You should probably talk to Peavey about that.



It's crazy how the nine just seem to have access to everything before anyone else...


----------



## megamaeng

Since the footswitch lights up, can I assume this has 7 pin midi phantom power? If so I can use something like the Morningstar MC6 to send out a bunch of midi commands without the need to run power to it.


----------



## bulb

megamaeng said:


> Since the footswitch lights up, can I assume this has 7 pin midi phantom power? If so I can use something like the Morningstar MC6 to send out a bunch of midi commands without the need to run power to it.



Hmm that's a good question, I think it would be down to the power rating of the pedal and what pin it receives power on. I'll ask John Fields and John Fera!


----------



## endmysuffering

Can you get brilliant cleans on this? Ac30 style I mean.


----------



## megamaeng

bulb said:


> Hmm that's a good question, I think it would be down to the power rating of the pedal and what pin it receives power on. I'll ask John Fields and John Fera!



Great thanks! I think if it does supply midi phantom power, that it would open it up to a bunch of powerful midi footcontrollers out there, and the amp can be a seriously flexible tone and effects hub.

The problem is that I'm now having a REALLY hard time deciding between getting this with an h9 or strymons in the effects loop, or go for AX8 or used axe fx ii with a power amp into a cab. The pricing is close enough where that's not a determining issue. My heart tells me tube amp, but my brain says go for fractal. 

Anyone using fractal/kemper/helix thinking of dropping those and getting this?


----------



## bulb

megamaeng said:


> Great thanks! I think if it does supply midi phantom power, that it would open it up to a bunch of powerful midi footcontrollers out there, and the amp can be a seriously flexible tone and effects hub.
> 
> The problem is that I'm now having a REALLY hard time deciding between getting this with an h9 or strymons in the effects loop, or go for AX8 or used axe fx ii with a power amp into a cab. The pricing is close enough where that's not a determining issue. My heart tells me tube amp, but my brain says go for fractal.
> 
> Anyone using fractal/kemper/helix thinking of dropping those and getting this?


 
Tough call which is why I'm using both haha, definitely gonna be putting the Axefx II in the loop once I get my pedal setup going.


----------



## bulb

And actually, even before that I'm going to be using the Invective as my poweramp because part of the design goal was to make it work wonderfully as a tube poweramp for a modeler.


----------



## megamaeng

bulb said:


> And actually, even before that I'm going to be using the Invective as my poweramp because part of the design goal was to make it work wonderfully as a tube poweramp for a modeler.



I wish I could get both! But $$$ as always... 

But since I primarily use boost and gate for fx, I'm leaning towards the invective.

That's interesting to hear your plans tho. So you plan on using it just as a power amp first with amp sims from the axe fx because it'll sound better than a SS PA power amp? 

And then when you put together a pedal setup, you'll put the axe fx in the loop with all your other pedals? At that point will you just be using the effects on the axe fx? Or are you planning on still using amp sims and just switching from the invective preamp tones and fractal amp sims in conjunction with pedals?

In any event, it's amazing the options we have these days. That's my problem tho haha!


----------



## MASS DEFECT

bulb said:


> And actually, even before that I'm going to be using the Invective as my poweramp because part of the design goal was to make it work wonderfully as a tube poweramp for a modeler.



When you use it with your axe fx, do you use the full amp models or just the preamp models?


----------



## Laimon

The amp looks amazing, quite a swiss army knife of modern metal. I am fairly tempted, I must say (and I haven't been in about 3 years, since I got my Kemper). 

My main worry is however that, like the 6505, will do amazing tight and clear rhythm, but will feel too gritty for shredding. Misha, it would be interesting to hear how to smooth the tone for liquid solos (some Petrucci tone?)


----------



## Black_Sheep

Europe release date? 

Please! i need that so i can start planning my life


----------



## Laimon

Black_Sheep said:


> Europe release date?



And Europe price too, would be interesting


----------



## DirtyJesus

This is everything.  I don't see a downside to this amp at all. I think that anything that anyone is complaining about can be bypassed with the footswitch, if that's what you want to do. My only complaint would be the white panel, and that's because I associate white objects with "men who wear white sunglasses." Lol. No biggie. 

I currently have 2 6505+ heads, I didn't notice if the ohms were switchable or not, I'm assuming it's at 16 if not? Is that a 6505 4x12 cab in the studio demo? 

Also, Misha, how does it sound in conjunction with the Precision Drive pedal? Do you use both gates with the amp OD off, or both off with the pedal just for another tone? 

Is the release date 6 weeks or 6 months? Trying to decide if I want to blow my tax check and start saving for this


----------



## elhantiri

So no one could confirm if the amp needs to be biased everytime you change the power tubes? I know the 6505 don't require a tubes bias .


----------



## mnemonic

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but the 5150/6505 isn't self-biasing or anything like that, it's just fixed, meaning not adjustable. You can achieve the same thing with an adjustable-bias amp by just not adjusting it, right? by leaving the bias 'fixed' in its original position?


----------



## narad

mnemonic said:


> Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but the 5150/6505 isn't self-biasing or anything like that, it's just fixed, meaning not adjustable. You can achieve the same thing with an adjustable-bias amp by just not adjusting it, right? by leaving the bias 'fixed' in its original position?



That sounds fishy. How would you prevent it from running a bit hot or cold just based on the variable nature of tube manufacturing (even for the same type of tube)?


----------



## elhantiri

mnemonic said:


> Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but the 5150/6505 isn't self-biasing or anything like that, it's just fixed, meaning not adjustable. You can achieve the same thing with an adjustable-bias amp by just not adjusting it, right? by leaving the bias 'fixed' in its original position?



Yes, the peavey 6505 is a fixed bias amp, I understand that peavey went for a cold fixed bias option so that people stop worrying about the lethal risks of biasing the tubes or the hassles of trying to find a guitar tech to bias your amp.

Mesa Boogie did the same thing, you can just pull out the old tubes and put in the new ones as long as they are similar grade Mesa tubes.

The question is: is it necessary to adjust the bias of the all new Invective amp, or is it okay to just swap the old 6L6s and put in the fresh 6L6s without checking the bias ? There was once a peavey tech who chimed in to say that even the 6505+ which has bias pots on the rear panel doesn't necessary require a bias check.

Where I live there are no guitar/amp techs, and if I invest my money on the invective then I want to make sure that the tubes will not require a bias adjustment.

I hope Misha or someone could bring a confirmation.


----------



## PrestoDone

Hey Misha i preordered the invective 120 head about 2 weeks ago. Any idea when its going to be released??

Thanks Man!


----------



## PrestoDone

im stoked i preordered one. All the clips i heard sound amazing, cant wait!


----------



## Laimon

Thinking about it. However, being in Europe, I wouldn't mind knowing EU price and availability date first...and also hearing some more would help, e.g. some soloing (as we've heard the chugs already)


----------



## jerm

I'm waiting for the Kemper profiles


----------



## Kryss

I was searching around yesterday for the release dates and couldn't find one. be good to know when peavey plans on actually releasing them to us. I'm not going to pre-order it but when they are out i'll probably pick one up right away. I'm kind of leaning on picking up one of these just cause it sounds too damn brutal and the cleans on misha's demo sound incredible. plus midi makes it a win imo.


----------



## Meeotch

Are you guys also considering the matching 2x12? Seems like a cool cab, with the pine giving it a different and potentially superior tone. I'm torn between this and just ordering a v30/creamback for my current rig.


----------



## lewis

jerm said:


> I'm waiting for the Kemper profiles



hahaha same!!


----------



## Mmcgrouty

It's just a 5150 with more switching and a built in boost, for a hefty price tag. I'd get a used 6505 and an sd1 and save $1200.


----------



## bulb

Kryss said:


> I was searching around yesterday for the release dates and couldn't find one. be good to know when peavey plans on actually releasing them to us. I'm not going to pre-order it but when they are out i'll probably pick one up right away. I'm kind of leaning on picking up one of these just cause it sounds too damn brutal and the cleans on misha's demo sound incredible. plus midi makes it a win imo.



I have the final revision of the amp waiting for me at home to test and okay once I'm home from our tour, if all is well with that revision and I can sign off on it, it shouldn't be terribly long till production starts. I just don't want to rush anything just for the sake of getting it out earlier.


----------



## narad

Someone releases a tweaked 5150 with a decent clean, and people are waiting for kemper profiles?? The cool part of the amp is having these features all together. I mean, you get that, right?


----------



## sandalhat

narad said:


> Someone releases a tweaked 5150 with a decent clean, and people are waiting for kemper profiles?? The cool part of the amp is having these features all together. I mean, you get that, right?



This. It's cracking me up every time.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

narad said:


> Someone releases a tweaked 5150 with a decent clean, and people are waiting for kemper profiles?? The cool part of the amp is having these features all together. I mean, you get that, right?



To be fair, Lewis does that in every new amp thread he visits.


----------



## ElasticPancakes

I just want to know 1 thing... is this amp named after the invective in Destiny?


----------



## tripandfall426

Kryss said:


> I was searching around yesterday for the release dates and couldn't find one. be good to know when peavey plans on actually releasing them to us. I'm not going to pre-order it but when they are out i'll probably pick one up right away. I'm kind of leaning on picking up one of these just cause it sounds too damn brutal and the cleans on misha's demo sound incredible. plus midi makes it a win imo.



I actually asked sweetwater back on feb 2nd if they had an ETA and this was their response.



I'm having a difficult time deciding what I want to do. I want to either get the invective with matching peavey cab, get a evh 5150 III with custom omega cab, or possibly go for an AXE FX II. I obviously know the axe fx has lots of effects and such but if it came down between this peavey and the evh, I really don't know what's the better option. I play through a 6505+ currently but want to do something new, the invective is definitely catered towards modern metal which is what I play but the 5150 III is also great for that. any opinions or thoughts about this? It's hard to want to buy something that hasn't been released completely and there isn't enough reviews/comparisons yet.

I should probably add that I ordered one of the Horizon Devices Precision Overdrive too which I wonder how well that compliments a evh 5150 or an Invective. I would assume it enhances both but I almost feel like the Invective wouldn't really need it to get that tight tone it naturally has already.


----------



## lewis

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> To be fair, Lewis does that in every new amp thread he visits.



Hell yeah. Hahah. My list of amp profiles is extensive


----------



## Kryss

damn that's a few months out still. good to know though, thanks for the heads up.


----------



## Meeotch

tripandfall426 said:


> I'm having a difficult time deciding what I want to do.



I say wait and get the Invective with matching cab. EVH 5153 rules but man, this is fresh! Or just wait for it's release and play one, then decide.


----------



## xCaptainx

bulb said:


> I have the final revision of the amp waiting for me at home to test and okay once I'm home from our tour, if all is well with that revision and I can sign off on it, it shouldn't be terribly long till production starts. I just don't want to rush anything just for the sake of getting it out earlier.



I've already put an order here in NZ  Very keen to hear the DI/XLR out with the next demo please!


----------



## tripandfall426

Meeotch said:


> I say wait and get the Invective with matching cab. EVH 5153 rules but man, this is fresh! Or just wait for it's release and play one, then decide.



odds are that no store locally around my town will ever have one. Nearest guitar center is nearly 300+ miles, so I would more than likely be buying one online. I have never personally played through an evh but I have played through an original block letter although I feel that would be a lot different than a 5150 III. I think I might just wait for the invective since time is not a concern currently and I really do love the features it has such as saving presets with the included foot controller plus the fact you can power two pedals from it is pretty sweet as well. it would be pretty cool being one of the first ones to have it too.


----------



## pkgitar

*mod edit: this is a thread about an amp, not the Kemper*


----------



## Bearitone

Mmcgrouty said:


> It's just a 5150 with more switching and a built in boost, for a hefty price tag. I'd get a used 6505 and an sd1 and save $1200.



You're also getting an actual clean channel, midi capability, as well as two effects loop and hands free switching of EVERYTHING at your feet.

Thats a whole heck of alot more than the standard 5150:
-2 channels
-No clean
-Shared EQ
-1 effects loop
-No midi capability
-No boost
-No gate


----------



## Tisca

I'm seeing an influx of 5150s and 6505s for sale locally. Wonder if it's because of this amp or just coincidence =).


----------



## Nitrobattery

Tisca said:


> I'm seeing an influx of 5150s and 6505s for sale locally. Wonder if it's because of this amp or just coincidence =).




Sold mine as soon as it was announced.


----------



## lewis

I really get the impression that this and the Randall Satan are now, currently the go to best metal amps out there.

atleast until the Meshuggah amps get released?. I mean Imagine a 2 guitarist or stereo rig of a Satan 1 side and this amp the other?.

Would be absolutely massive.


----------



## aprilia4life

lewis said:


> I really get the impression that this and the Randall Satan are now, currently the go to best metal amps out there.



Let's not all climb aboard the hype train just yet...


----------



## bulb

ElasticPancakes said:


> I just want to know 1 thing... is this amp named after the invective in Destiny?



FULL AUTO REGEN AMMO


----------



## ElasticPancakes

bulb said:


> FULL AUTO REGEN AMMO



Haha yeah boi!


----------



## PrestoDone

hey misha when does your current tour wrap up??


----------



## bulb

couple days!


----------



## Tisca

lewis said:


> I really get the impression that this and the Randall Satan are now, currently the go to best metal amps out there.



IMO they sound very different. Would you disagree? Doesn't make your statement false, just wondering if you're trying to compare these two.


----------



## 7 Stringer

I am also way into this amp, i am getting one fo sure!!!! 

I currently play a 5153 100w, for what seems like forever, really enjoy it, but lately i feel it is a bit of a stiff amp, harmonics are hard to coax, i need to work hard to get my point across!!!!

Features are off the charts (Invective)!!!!!!!!

God damn, can't wait to get one!!!!!!

Chris


----------



## oath5

lewis said:


> I really get the impression that this and the Randall Satan are now, currently the go to best metal amps out there.
> 
> atleast until the Meshuggah amps get released?. I mean Imagine a 2 guitarist or stereo rig of a Satan 1 side and this amp the other?.
> 
> Would be absolutely massive.



Saw Meshuggah live in Gothenburg last wednesday. HOLY .... that guitarsound  I thought their axefx sound live was mindblowing last year. Their new amps blew the head right off me.


----------



## lewis

Tisca said:


> IMO they sound very different. Would you disagree? Doesn't make your statement false, just wondering if you're trying to compare these two.



no thats the point. Blending 2 amps together that sound different from each other, but that can be dialed in to work together sounds better and would be huge. Its like taking Chocolate and Caramel (2 totally different things) and putting them together to make a dessert. The outcome just works and is awesome.

That and I love the features on both. 
Girt + Grind on the Satan and all the amazing features on this Peavey.

I can just imagine seeing a metal band live, where both guitarists have a Satan on the matching 4x12 one side glowing red, and the Peavey on matching Cab the other looking sleek.
Imagine the tone... jeez


----------



## PrestoDone

Hey misha.....hows the final revision of the amp sounding??


----------



## bulb

It's on its way to me as we speak, fingers crossed it's good to go!


----------



## PrestoDone

bulb said:


> It's on its way to me as we speak, fingers crossed it's good to go!



Hey misha sorry to bug you so much, but how good is the noise gate on the Invective? What noise gate would you compare it to??


----------



## bulb

PrestoDone said:


> Hey misha sorry to bug you so much, but how good is the noise gate on the Invective? What noise gate would you compare it to??



The noise gate on the Invective is pretty damn incredible and tight, not entirely sure what I would compare it to, but I don't really need to run it more than halfway up haha


----------



## tripandfall426

bulb said:


> The noise gate on the Invective is pretty damn incredible and tight, not entirely sure what I would compare it to, but I don't really need to run it more than halfway up haha



Does the Invective's noise gate also block out feedback noise/buzz? I remember hearing it's mainly focused on guitar input to get tight sound. I guess another question would be, how much noise in general does the amp make while it's on and running?


----------



## CapnForsaggio

tripandfall426 said:


> Does the Invective's noise gate also block out feedback noise/buzz? I remember hearing it's mainly focused on guitar input to get tight sound. I guess another question would be, how much noise in general does the amp make while it's on and running?



Same question different way:

Is the NG at the end of the "loop," after preamp stages? (potentially gating tails)
Or is it earlier, to track the dry guitar better? (potentially leaving preamp hiss)
Or is it AWESOME and track guitar input, but gate much later in the signal path?!


----------



## bulb

It's after the OD but before the preamp because that's where I always would place the gate pedal in my signal chain.


----------



## Stooly

How much amp noise is there? I know all my high gain amps are pretty noisy, so I typically run a gate after the preamp to keep things quiet. I'm definitely interested in this amp to simplify my 4 cable setup I'm currently using.


----------



## DEUCE SLUICE

bulb said:


> It's after the OD but before the preamp because that's where I always would place the gate pedal in my signal chain.



Does it sense & clamp at the same place in the chain? Or is it sensing there and clamping elsewhere down the line?

I always like the gates where you can sense up front and clamp at the effects loop to keep the preamp buzz out of it, but if the amp doesn't have any buzz maybe it's not a big deal...


----------



## bulb

Stooly said:


> How much amp noise is there? I know all my high gain amps are pretty noisy, so I typically run a gate after the preamp to keep things quiet. I'm definitely interested in this amp to simplify my 4 cable setup I'm currently using.



It's not really a noisy amp, the only problem you get with running a gate in the fx loop is your chan volume and MV will affect how you set it, and gates there can kinda be all or nothing with your sustain, so that's why I never really bothered with putting a gate there, but with the amp's 2 fx loops you could literally dedicate one of those loops to being a post preamp gate.


----------



## beavis2306

Hey Misha, any chance you could detail the last minute revisions if any?


----------



## oniduder

on the cabinet, is it truly 16.5" deep? because that's f-in awesome, or impractical idk which yet, but i'm leaning towards awesome sauce all over your face, 

let me know?

please?

i promise not to awesome sauce you... maybe?


----------



## bulb

beavis2306 said:


> Hey Misha, any chance you could detail the last minute revisions if any?



Getting clean channel to be even cleaner and sweeter, getting the amp's noise floor even lower without affecting tone, final noise gate tweaks.


----------



## beavis2306

bulb said:


> Getting clean channel to be even cleaner and sweeter, getting the amp's noise floor even lower without affecting tone, final noise gate tweaks.



Cool, cheers dude.


----------



## bluffalo

I'm pretty much sold. My 6505 has been a little intermittent over the years, and this sounds like it will basically does the same job with a little more flexibility. 

Looking forward to release date in Australia, hoping we don't get shafted 320% price increase like many things seem to be.


----------



## beavis2306

bluffalo said:


> Looking forward to release date in Australia, hoping we don't get shafted 320% price increase like many things seem to be.



Yup


----------



## MattThePenguin

bulb said:


> Getting clean channel to be even cleaner and sweeter, getting the amp's noise floor even lower without affecting tone, final noise gate tweaks.



Glad the clean channel is being taken so seriously. I'm really interested in this head.


----------



## sialethekid

OMG slowly dying as i wait for this thing to release...


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

https://www.facebook.com/misha.mansoor/videos/10155127669964533/

More teasy teasy.


----------



## xCaptainx

Hey Misha, already have ordered the head and 2x12 cab here in NZ, just one final question. 

What's the XLR Cab emulation DI based on? Sweetwater describes the controls for level, tone, and ground lift were voiced in collaboration with Joe Satriani. 

Curious to know if you had any input on that also. Would I be safe to assume it's meant to match the 2x12 cab?


----------



## bulb

xCaptainx said:


> Hey Misha, already have ordered the head and 2x12 cab here in NZ, just one final question.
> 
> What's the XLR Cab emulation DI based on? Sweetwater describes the controls for level, tone, and ground lift were voiced in collaboration with Joe Satriani.
> 
> Curious to know if you had any input on that also. Would I be safe to assume it's meant to match the 2x12 cab?



It's just Peavey's standard MSDI with a tone sweep. I probably won't be using it, it doesn't sound bad, but it's really designed to be used as a live situation alternative to micing, especially if you don't have your own FOH who knows how to mic your setup properly.


----------



## xCaptainx

Sweet that's exactly what I'm after, and how I was using the Laney Ironheart XLR out as a secondary option for sound guys. 

Nice option to have either way, cheers!


----------



## katsumura78

The more videos you do of this amp the harder it gets to stop myself from preordering hahah it sounds killer.


----------



## Stooly

Now that I moved my Uberschall, I think I'm going to give it a shot and preorder one.


----------



## Semi-pro

The MIDI and gate make it so tempting to switch from my EVH 5150 100w to this...


----------



## Stooly

Semi-pro said:


> The MIDI and gate make it so tempting to switch from my EVH 5150 100w to this...


 
Yep, I'm in the same boat. I have a 100w EVH Stealth that I love but I may want to pick up the Invective for a simplified setup with my other project. Always nice having a couple of options to amp mix when tracking too


----------



## lewis

Stooly said:


> Yep, I'm in the same boat. I have a 100w EVH Stealth that I love but I may want to pick up the Invective for a simplified setup with my other project. Always nice having a couple of options to amp mix when tracking too



just do not give up that Stealth haha. Those things are badassss


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

lewis said:


> just do not give up that Stealth haha. Those things are badassss



Tone-wise theyre awesome. But they don't have the features of the Invective. 

Although if they ever made a 5150S (not a mini) with MIDI and a built-in noise gate, that WILL be the king of amps.


----------



## oniduder

oniduder said:


> on the cabinet, is it truly 16.5" deep? because that's f-in awesome, or impractical idk which yet, but i'm leaning towards awesome sauce all over your face,
> 
> let me know?
> 
> please?
> 
> i promise not to awesome sauce you... maybe?



i'm serious sweetwater has the cabinet with a depth of 16.5" is there any truth to this??

if not what is the depth of the cabinet, that depth is exciting for me, idk why, i like it deep i guess?

most 2x12 cabinets don't surpass 14.5 or 15" just saying


----------



## Stooly

oniduder said:


> i'm serious sweetwater has the cabinet with a depth of 16.5" is there any truth to this??
> 
> if not what is the depth of the cabinet, that depth is exciting for me, idk why, i like it deep i guess?
> 
> most 2x12 cabinets don't surpass 14.5 or 15" just saying


 
I saw that too. It's basically the same dims as my Genz Benz G-flex cab, but 2 1/2" deeper and 4# lighter! If those specs are correct anyway... it's loaded with the same speakers I have in one of my Mesa cabs (tank) V-30 and 75 Creamback, that combo is a killer blend!


----------



## sakeido

I made the mistake of buying an amp with "tons of features" once before .... a bunch of extra money for stuff I never, ever used, or eventually ditched for outboard stuff anyway 

buy on tone, and tone only 

this amp sounds like a boosted 5150 (aka good) but odds are you don't need the extra .... or you could add it to your existing setup for less money than you'd lose selling your existing gear and replacing it with a brand new amp


----------



## oniduder

sakeido said:


> I made the mistake of buying an amp with "tons of features" once before .... a bunch of extra money for stuff I never, ever used, or eventually ditched for outboard stuff anyway
> 
> buy on tone, and tone only
> 
> this amp sounds like a boosted 5150 (aka good) but odds are you don't need the extra .... or you could add it to your existing setup for less money than you'd lose selling your existing gear and replacing it with a brand new amp



yes i agree, it's like buying a ferrari to do deliveries for pizza hut,

cool features, but really i know i'll never need them, and frankly i don't really like the built in crap, like a built in booster, or gate, it is sooooo f-in rare that those features are better than add ons ya know?

but seriously what's the depth of the damn cabinet


----------



## Unleash The Fury

sakeido said:


> I made the mistake of buying an amp with "tons of features" once before .... a bunch of extra money for stuff I never, ever used, or eventually ditched for outboard stuff anyway
> 
> buy on tone, and tone only
> 
> this amp sounds like a boosted 5150 (aka good) but odds are you don't need the extra .... or you could add it to your existing setup for less money than you'd lose selling your existing gear and replacing it with a brand new amp



Well we will see in due time. If the gate and OD are great then thats a no-brainer. And everything is footswitchable, and if you really really needed to have a pedal out in front, you can plug it into the back of the damn amp! 

This amp is like a dog that all it wants to do is please its master, and you wont even give it the time of day!


----------



## TedintheShed

So....I'm a living room warrior. I have a 20 watt Engl Ironball that is super nice, but seems to lack the bottom end I want. Been thinking about going to a 6L6 based amp because their common denominator seems to be a nice, full rounded low end.

There are no low wattage amps based on 6l6 tubes, so the master is going to be really important so that I don't bleed from my ears. Will the master be okay to obtain a lower volume, or will I need something like a Rockcrusher to prevent a Marty McFly moment?


----------



## PrestoDone

TedintheShed said:


> So....I'm a living room warrior. I have a 20 watt Engl Ironball that is super nice, but seems to lack the bottom end I want. Been thinking about going to a 6L6 based amp because their common denominator seems to be a nice, full rounded low end.
> 
> There are no low wattage amps based on 6l6 tubes, so the master is going to be really important so that I don't bleed from my ears. Will the master be okay to obtain a lower volume, or will I need something like a Rockcrusher to prevent a Marty McFly moment?



You will def get a good tone at bedroom level....of course turning it up loud is a game changer. It also has a switch on the back to go down to 60 watts...


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

sakeido said:


> I made the mistake of buying an amp with "tons of features" once before .... a bunch of extra money for stuff I never, ever used, or eventually ditched for outboard stuff anyway
> 
> buy on tone, and tone only
> 
> this amp sounds like a boosted 5150 (aka good) but odds are you don't need the extra .... or you could add it to your existing setup for less money than you'd lose selling your existing gear and replacing it with a brand new amp



On the inverse... What if someone NEEDS an all-in-one solution? A nice clean channel, 2 OD channels with boosts and gates that are only active on the dirt channels. MIDI to switch channels and effects at the same time to have a chorus/delay/reverb on your clean or leads, and a dry rhythm sound?

If you just need a 5150, then just buy a 5150. If you need a 5150 for all the extra bells and whistles to make your live show a breeze and without a ....ton of outboard gear, then get this.


----------



## bulb

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> On the inverse... What if someone NEEDS an all-in-one solution? A nice clean channel, 2 OD channels with boosts and gates that are only active on the dirt channels. MIDI to switch channels and effects at the same time to have a chorus/delay/reverb on your clean or leads, and a dry rhythm sound?
> 
> If you just need a 5150, then just buy a 5150. If you need a 5150 for all the extra bells and whistles to make your live show a breeze and without a ....ton of outboard gear, then get this.



Eh no piece of gear is for everyone, it's obviously not to his taste, and that's no biggie. Though to be fair, even without the boost/gate, this does the 5150 vibe but better, so it's a win/win hehe.

Either way I'm very pleasantly surprised to see this get so much traction here and in general, and I just approved the latest revision, so they are moving to production now!!

So stoked for you guys to be able to play with these first hand.

To the dude asking about cab depth, the cabs are at the Periphery storage so I can't measure, but I do remember them being relatively deep!


----------



## oniduder

bulb said:


> Eh no piece of gear is for everyone, it's obviously not to his taste, and that's no biggie. Though to be fair, even without the boost/gate, this does the 5150 vibe but better, so it's a win/win hehe.
> 
> Either way I'm very pleasantly surprised to see this get so much traction here and in general, and I just approved the latest revision, so they are moving to production now!!
> 
> So stoked for you guys to be able to play with these first hand.
> 
> To the dude asking about cab depth, the cabs are at the Periphery storage so I can't measure, but I do remember them being relatively deep!



cool, i guess more accurate dimensions may come out relatively soon...ish

and yeah i agree with both sentiments, "oh nos an amp not for everyone" and my opinion, "sorry it's just not for me, please don't hurt me in this thread, dox me or threaten me with rape or raping of my family, or some variation of this because i'm not interested in the amp"

a bit hyperbolic, on my characterization of how my opinion has been met

but whatever it's the internet who cares? wait i do! 

thanks for your time and i'll wait impatiently for the true answer

ciao honkeys


----------



## PrestoDone

bulb said:


> Eh no piece of gear is for everyone, it's obviously not to his taste, and that's no biggie. Though to be fair, even without the boost/gate, this does the 5150 vibe but better, so it's a win/win hehe.
> 
> Either way I'm very pleasantly surprised to see this get so much traction here and in general, and I just approved the latest revision, so they are moving to production now!!
> 
> So stoked for you guys to be able to play with these first hand.
> 
> To the dude asking about cab depth, the cabs are at the Periphery storage so I can't measure, but I do remember them being relatively deep!



wow great news!!! Any eta on your end on when they might start to ship????


----------



## bulb

PrestoDone said:


> wow great news!!! Any eta on your end on when they might start to ship????



If all goes to plan, hopefully the first units will start shipping late may, early june.


----------



## PrestoDone

ahh ok right on!


----------



## crwnedblasphemy

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Tone-wise theyre awesome. But they don't have the features of the Invective.
> 
> Although if they ever made a 5150S (not a mini) with MIDI and a built-in noise gate, that WILL be the king of amps.



midi yes, but why noise gate? Mine is very quiet


----------



## bulb

crwnedblasphemy said:


> midi yes, but why noise gate? Mine is very quiet



The noise gate on the Invective is on the lower end is simply just to cut out any excess noise and/or noise added by the boost on chans 2/3. On the mid to higher end, it's for use as an actually gating effect as metal, rock, djent etc bands like to use it.


----------



## PrestoDone

bulb said:


> The noise gate on the Invective is on the lower end is simply just to cut out any excess noise and/or noise added by the boost on chans 2/3. On the mid to higher end, it's for use as an actually gating effect as metal, rock, djent etc bands like to use it.



Hey Misha Quick Question. Would you think it would play nice if i used my VFE Focus pedal along with the invective boost to further shape the sound or would it be overkill? to get a tighter more aggressive tone.


----------



## Soya

TedintheShed said:


> So....I'm a living room warrior. I have a 20 watt Engl Ironball that is super nice, but seems to lack the bottom end I want. Been thinking about going to a 6L6 based amp because their common denominator seems to be a nice, full rounded low end.
> 
> There are no low wattage amps based on 6l6 tubes, so the master is going to be really important so that I don't bleed from my ears. Will the master be okay to obtain a lower volume, or will I need something like a Rockcrusher to prevent a Marty McFly moment?



Just as an aside, the Kaos sludge 30 watt version is 6l6 based


----------



## possumkiller

Where is the mini head version?


----------



## bulb

PrestoDone said:


> Hey Misha Quick Question. Would you think it would play nice if i used my VFE Focus pedal along with the invective boost to further shape the sound or would it be overkill? to get a tighter more aggressive tone.



It depends on what you are after, you can definitely use the two, I personally think it might be a bit overkill so you may opt for one or the other, but if you want that way too djenty sound that combo should give you that haha.

By the way, someone was asking about low volume operation, with the chan/MV control and the half power switch you can not only run it softer but reduce the headroom on the powersection. No problem at all to get it running at bedroom volumes and sounding damn good too! That was a big issue for me with the 5150.


----------



## bnzboy

bulb said:


> By the way, someone was asking about low volume operation, with the chan/MV control and the half power switch you can not only run it softer but reduce the headroom on the powersection. No problem at all to get it running at bedroom volumes and sounding damn good too! That was a big issue for me with the 5150.



Good to know this because the 5150 I have tried went from sizzly noise to WTF loud very quickly, not so home-use friendly.


----------



## possumkiller

Yes I had a 6505 half stack and never turned it louder than one lol. Most of the time it was at like .25 but once in my buddie's basement studio I wanted to see just how loud it got. We never found out. It physically hurt at one.


----------



## Harry

possumkiller said:


> Yes I had a 6505 half stack and never turned it louder than one lol. Most of the time it was at like .25 but once in my buddie's basement studio I wanted to see just how loud it got. We never found out. It physically hurt at one.



In a well treated room in a good size rehearsal/studio space, 1 isn't THAT bad when standing a good distance away from the cab.
It being genuinely painful at 1, I'd say half of that would be a terrible sounding basement with heaps of reflections exaggerating the volume perception (or actual real volume). Same thing with a small bedroom, can be painful.

Generally the 5150/6505 series don't really get much louder after 4.5 post gain from memory. At that point you will utterly overwhelm just about any room in a 2 guitar band  
It just gets gradually more compressed if you continue to turn up and in a way that's not pleasant IMO.

I can't tell you exactly what's happening from a tech perspective, but it's either output tranny saturation, power tube saturation, the phase inverter distorting or likely a combination of all 3 (maybe sir Bulb can inquire with the Peavey techs). 
Probably speaker breakup at that kind of volume too.


----------



## TedintheShed

bulb said:


> By the way, someone was asking about low volume operation, with the chan/MV control and the half power switch you can not only run it softer but reduce the headroom on the powersection. No problem at all to get it running at bedroom volumes and sounding damn good too! That was a big issue for me with the 5150.



That was me Misha. I appreciate you taking the time, so I'm pretty sure I'm pre-ordering one from Sweetwater. My daughter, who is a guitarist and fangirl of Periphery, is really happy because that means she gets to use "Dad's amp" lol...


----------



## shpence

possumkiller said:


> Where is the mini head version?


 
Seconded! In time, hopefully.


----------



## bulb

TedintheShed said:


> That was me Misha. I appreciate you taking the time, so I'm pretty sure I'm pre-ordering one from Sweetwater. My daughter, who is a guitarist and fangirl of Periphery, is really happy because that means she gets to use "Dad's amp" lol...



Haha best dad ever!


----------



## bulb

shpence said:


> Seconded! In time, hopefully.



If the amp does well, I'd say the Mini head will be an easy sell to the Peavey guys! So for right now, we just want to focus on getting this amp out, and making the most of our launch!


----------



## shpence

bulb said:


> If all goes to plan, hopefully the first units will start shipping late may, early june.



Does this go for the cabs also? Thanks!


----------



## aWoodenShip

I think I've more or less decided to finance one of these bad boys from Sweetwater. I can't wait until it comes out.


----------



## endmysuffering

Does this amp thall though?


----------



## feraledge

bulb said:


> If the amp does well, I'd say the Mini head will be an easy sell to the Peavey guys! So for right now, we just want to focus on getting this amp out, and making the most of our launch!



Doesn't it have a half power mode? Maybe I'm remembering that wrong...


----------



## bulb

It does indeed!


----------



## TedintheShed

bulb said:


> Haha best dad ever!



LOL...not by a long shot. My dad discourage my musical interests, so I sure as hell won't do that to my daughters as I've been on the receiving end of that (one is a singer, the other a guitarist). I think music and pursuing one's interests in art is highly undervalued in society, even if it is just as a hobbyist. It leads to great things, even if not directly related to the arts. I met my wife of 28 years in the back of my drummer's van in 1988, for which I got the privilege of thanking Billy Sheehan for personally at Gearfest...but that's another story.


----------



## PrestoDone

hey misha....your opinion....for the invective 120 head would you rather use a hesu 2x12 or the matching invective 2x12 ??


----------



## endmysuffering

bulb said:


> It does indeed!



I'm really haarpy that it has a HALF power mode.


----------



## bluffalo

Australian RRP is expected to be $3499.

Best get selling some stuff...


----------



## beavis2306

Which isn't too hideous as a starting point - should be able to talk em down a bit further. Where'd you find that?


----------



## MrYakob

Thank god you don't need the left handed version... $$$$$$$$$$


----------



## beerandbeards

TedintheShed said:


> I met my wife of 28 years in the back of my drummer's van in 1988, for which I got the privilege of thanking Billy Sheehan for personally at Gearfest...but that's another story.




Wait wait wait.... I need to hear this


----------



## MetalHead40

MrYakob said:


> Thank god you don't need the left handed version... $$$$$$$$$$


----------



## bulb

MrYakob said:


> Thank god you don't need the left handed version... $$$$$$$$$$



Seriously though if you need a left handed version of the amp, I can talk to Peavey's Custom Shop and help get that pushed through!


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

bulb said:


> Seriously though if you need a left handed version of the amp, I can talk to Peavey's Custom Shop and help get that pushed through!



It'll only cost around... $3800, right? 

Gotta be a risktaker!


----------



## Djentlyman

bluffalo said:


> Australian RRP is expected to be $3499.
> 
> Best get selling some stuff...



I love Australian pricing.  now I just stick to the used market, however in this instance I'll be waiting a while.



bulb said:


> Seriously though if you need a left handed version of the amp, I can talk to Peavey's Custom Shop and help get that pushed through!



haha shots fired.


----------



## MattThePenguin

I might be having a brain fart, are these supposed to start shipping in June?


----------



## shpence

MattThePenguin said:


> I might be having a brain fart, are these supposed to start shipping in June?



I pre-ordered the 2x12 and was informed, "we hope to start shipping sometime this spring."


----------



## cmtd

Saw this shot of the periphery rig online today. I wasn't the biggest fan of the aesthetics of this amp, however in white I think it looks killer. Hopefully this will be an option.


----------



## rockskate4x

Oh God yes I hope this means we get an Invective 4x12 cab with vintage 30/creamback x pattern and mono/stereo jackplate. Also more white amp/cab shells please


----------



## dongh1217

shpence said:


> I pre-ordered the 2x12 and was informed, "we hope to start shipping sometime this spring."



Well, I've heard totally different story, no firm ETA at all yet.


----------



## technomancer

dongh1217 said:


> Well, I've heard totally different story, no firm ETA at all yet.



"we hope" isn't exactly a firm ETA


----------



## narad

That's pretty awesome. Pointless, but awesome.


----------



## technomancer

narad said:


> That's pretty awesome. Pointless, but awesome.



You know you've gotten big enough to have roadies when 

Looks fantastic


----------



## bulb

narad said:


> That's pretty awesome. Pointless, but awesome.



Why exactly is it pointless?


----------



## Cheap

saw them in chicago the other night and the guitar sound was just stupid good. i've seen a few shows where their guitar tone has really not impressed (most likely the venue/energy levels/whatever), but this really blew me away

not sure if it has anything to do with these amps though--didn't see channels change for the whole show so i'm assuming the axe fx is going to remain the brain with these acting as power amps for misha and jake? it'd be cool to see a switch over to these combined with the effects from the fractal, but i know i'd be hesitant to change my sound if it's already that great haha


----------



## 7 Stringer

Will these be available in white?

That would be so cool. I'd buy a full stack in white, sexy as hell!!!!!


----------



## GunpointMetal

bulb said:


> Why exactly is it pointless?



Four cabs four one guitar.


----------



## katsumura78

I need this amp in white!


----------



## Sephiroth952

cmtd said:


> *Awesome cabinets


NOICE! Reminds me of what Petrucci was doing there for a while, See: Score.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

GunpointMetal said:


> Four cabs four one guitar.



clearly you've never seen necrophagist live. 4 4x12 cabs in a tiny ass venue. It's like being hit in the chest with a sledgehammer over and over again. 4 full stacks gives a ridiculously huge sound if the sound guys aren't garbage.


----------



## bulb

Sephiroth952 said:


> NOICE! Reminds me of what Petrucci was doing there for a while, See: Score.



That was unquestionably the influence haha, always thought it looked super classy!


----------



## GunpointMetal

KnightBrolaire said:


> clearly you've never seen necrophagist live. 4 4x12 cabs in a tiny ass venue. It's like being hit in the chest with a sledgehammer over and over again. 4 full stacks gives a ridiculously huge sound if the sound guys aren't garbage.



A 1x12 will give a ridiculously huge sound if the sound guys aren't garbage, lol. A modeler DI'd to the FOH will give a huge sound if the sound guys aren't garbage.


----------



## bhakan

GunpointMetal said:


> A 1x12 will give a ridiculously huge sound if the sound guys aren't garbage, lol. A modeler DI'd to the FOH will give a huge sound if the sound guys aren't garbage.


If you're in a smaller venue, or close enough to the stage to hear the stage volume, I don't think it's comparable. A Mic'd cab through a PA or a modeller emulating that isn't quite the same as being smacked in the chest by a wall of huge guitar cabs.


----------



## Soya

As someone who has seen Yngwie Malmsteen perform in a smaller venue, I wholeheartedly agree.


----------



## endmysuffering

I'll tell you guys how it sounds tonight if the quadstack is coming on stage.


----------



## katsumura78

It sounded killer last night. Massive tones !


----------



## Black_Sheep

Im eagerly waiting to order this amp from Thomann (i guess they're gonna have it since they have everything else by Peavey), but they don't even have a pre-order option yet. 

Also, damn that white one looks great, would definetly choose it over "standard" black.


----------



## whosdealin

I had a dream last night I thought I would share , it went down like this :

Somehow I find myself in the building where Misha Mansoor's rehearsal studio is and come upon his room. The door happens to be partially open and I decide to walk in uninvited. 

Inside the room I notice it could double as a messy dorm room because along with all the gear you would expect in a rehearsal space there are a couple beds and laundry scatterd all over the place. Kinda strange but since it was a dream I continue on . There happens to be nobody "home" I'm wondering if Misha stepped out for a minute and notice that the Invective 120 is sitting on a cab and is plugged in and on standby. There are a couple of Misha's Jackson guitars out so I decide to help myself to one of them because I'm really excited to try the amp. 

Now the whole time I remember thinking to myself ( This guy Misha seems super cool and friendly in videos so he probably won't mind Im just helping myself to his stuff . ) So anyway I plug one of his guitars in and start rockin the Invective. It's sounding sick but the volume is only up a little bit, I'm walking towards the amps to crank it and the man himself walks in.

I must have caught him off guard because he is looking at me like "who the fak are you" so Im telling him "Hey I'm a member from Sevenstring and just wanted to stop by and see if you were around" He looks confused and kinda pissed at this point and is staring at his Jackson hanging on my body. So he walks over and politely takes his guitar back and inspects it for damage. He puts the guitar down and I start blabbering to him about how I love my 6505+ and have been really excited about the Invective when my alarm goes off ....Time for work mofo's !


----------



## prlgmnr

10 minutes til Bulb comes on and says "There was some git in my practice room last night playing on my Jackson. AND Matt had been sleeping in there on a pile of dirty v-necks again."


----------



## narad

Damn you guys are thirsty.


----------



## Unleash The Fury

narad said:


> Damn you guys are thirsty.


----------



## crwnedblasphemy




----------



## CapnForsaggio

This is the dorkiest/worst early product demo ever. Nice work Peavey. Idiots.

Where's the artist demo, with great sound production?!

We get some jackwagon in a bedroom with a strat, who happens to be friends with Peaveys A&R guy....

What a failure.


----------



## crwnedblasphemy

I'd rather have an "in the room" demo to hear how the amp actually sounds over a over produced demo. It's not a failure at all. Just an honest walk through.


----------



## vick1000

Sounds like it won't djent.....LOL


----------



## Sephiroth952

Review was just fine. Really good player too.


----------



## prlgmnr

Well that's answered the burning question: "Does it twang?"


----------



## KnightBrolaire

the dad rock is strong in this one.


----------



## Bladed-Vaults

vick1000 said:


> Sounds like it won't djent.....LOL



...... This video had so much Thall bro. No idea what you mean


----------



## Wolfhorsky

prlgmnr said:


> Well that's answered the burning question: "Does it twang?"


----------



## technomancer

It's actually pretty smart trying to make sure the amp doesn't get pigeon holed as a metal amp


----------



## Wolfhorsky

technomancer said:


> It's actually pretty smart trying to make sure the amp doesn't get pigeon holed as a metal amp


Yeah, You are right, but that comment about "will it twang" is really funny


----------



## Bearitone

CapnForsaggio said:


> This is the dorkiest/worst early product demo ever. Nice work Peavey. Idiots.
> 
> Where's the artist demo, with great sound production?!
> 
> We get some jackwagon in a bedroom with a strat, who happens to be friends with Peaveys A&R guy....
> 
> What a failure.



For some reason I imagined Trumps voice when reading this. I feel like you just needed to add "Bad!" at the end


----------



## lewis

for god sake these reviews annoy me. This is, quite clearly, a High Gain amp designed for HARD Rock and Brutal Metal. So why do we ever get reviews of amps like this, where the dude is playing "grandad crunch" or "Blues" or whatever is beggars belief.

Im just going to turn up to my Church folk band gig with a Stereo rig of an Peavey Invective and a Randall Satan. Perfect for those light crunch tones.

sigh absolutely ridiculous. Would be like trying to go on tour in a metal band with a Vox combo amp.


----------



## MattThePenguin

I thought the demo was pretty rad. I'm actually more excited for it now lol


----------



## mnemonic

You guys are lucky Paul from GuitarWorld didn't review it.


----------



## Blytheryn

lewis said:


> for god sake these reviews annoy me. This is, quite clearly, a High Gain amp designed for HARD Rock and Brutal Metal. So why do we ever get reviews of amps like this, where the dude is playing "grandad crunch" or "Blues" or whatever is beggars belief.
> 
> Im just going to turn up to my Church folk band gig with a Stereo rig of an Peavey Invective and a Randall Satan. Perfect for those light crunch tones.
> 
> sigh absolutely ridiculous. Would be like trying to go on tour in a metal band with a Vox combo amp.



I think it's actually pretty funny, but irritating.


----------



## narad

mnemonic said:


> You guys are lucky Paul from GuitarWorld didn't review it.



Ha yea, I'll take dad rock over guitar-store wankery any day.


----------



## lewis

Blytheryn said:


> I think it's actually pretty funny, but irritating.



I cant wait to see Periphery tour these beasts -


----------



## prlgmnr

lewis said:


> sigh absolutely ridiculous. Would be like trying to go on tour in a metal band with a Vox combo amp.



I used to have a Vox V125 head, it had a diode clipping stage I guess like a 2205/2210. Absolutely killer when you got a chance to crank it. Regret letting it go but we're talking like 10-15 years ago. Swapped it for a Marshall Valvestate because it kept blowing fuses.

Of course I then got rid of that as well and now regret that because it would be great for that early death metal sound.

I guess the lesson is, sell nothing and let it all pile up in a corner somewhere.


----------



## Jacksonluvr636

technomancer said:


> It's actually pretty smart trying to make sure the amp doesn't get pigeon holed as a metal amp



 exactly.

Appeal to one or appeal to all? I'm sure both Peavey and Misha would love if everyone enjoyed the amp.


----------



## exo

Ok, that review showcases that the amp is gonna be pretty versatile......but at the same time, the guys that are the primary audience for this still don't know JACK about how it actually sounds under the most likely applications of the amp.

I totally "get" wanting to show off it's not just a djent/brutal amp........but the guys that are gonna buy these from stores are going to be EXACTLY that audience segment. the numbers of these that will end up in the "blues dad" crowd are so minuscule there was really not a lot of point to even doing this style of a review........


----------



## lewis

Jacksonluvr636 said:


> exactly.
> 
> Appeal to one or appeal to all? I'm sure both Peavey and Misha would love if everyone enjoyed the amp.



Im sorry but this is such a misguided approach. Do Peavey honestly expect grandad blues players to buy this?. Regardless of how many reviews they put out showing us how it MIGHT work for those tones, no one other than Metal or heavy Rock guys will be buying this and I could put my hat on that fact.

I think its a stupid approach given its for metal guys and we STILL dont really know how it handles high gain sounds. (Its primary use)


----------



## Lindmann

Next time, a new vox amp or fender blues amp is released, I'm gonna make a demo of it only playing Emmure chugs on it and wait for the blues community to praise the tone and versatility of the amp after watching my video.


----------



## prlgmnr

lewis said:


> Im sorry but this is such a misguided approach. Do Peavey honestly expect grandad blues players to buy this?. Regardless of how many reviews they put out showing us how it MIGHT work for those tones, no one other than Metal or heavy Rock guys will be buying this and I could put my hat on that fact.
> 
> I think its a stupid approach given its for metal guys and we STILL dont really know how it handles high gain sounds. (Its primary use)



Right but it would be a funny ....ing twist to pull at this point if it didn't do high gain sounds.


----------



## prlgmnr

Kick it onto Channel 3 and a bunch of plastic flowers pops out to the sound of sad trombone.


----------



## lewis

prlgmnr said:


> Kick it onto Channel 3 and a bunch of plastic flowers pops out to the sound of sad trombone.


----------



## technomancer

The EVH amps are HUGE sellers across multiple genres and that is what Peavey is hoping to hit. So they're targeting multiple market segments.

Not rocket science, not sure why it's hard for some to grasp.


----------



## lewis

technomancer said:


> The EVH amps are HUGE sellers across *multiple genres* and that is what Peavey is hoping to hit. So they're targeting multiple market segments.
> 
> Not rocket science, not sure why it's hard for some to grasp.



Rock, Heavy Rock, Metal?

There is no way someone plays rock and roll, blues or any kind of folk or lighter music etc, using an EVH 5150 or an Peavey Invective. There just isnt.

Because it would be as dumb as Whitechapel (or similar brutal band) using a Fender Blues Deluxe on tour for their tones. Would not happen in a million years.


----------



## scrub

didn't the guy in the demo just prove that you can play blues and lighter rock on an Invective?


----------



## prlgmnr

I'm going to get one and play nothing but Little Wing over and over again purely out of spite.

Well I would but I can't ....ing play Little Wing for some reason.


----------



## technomancer

lewis said:


> Rock, Heavy Rock, Metal?
> 
> There is no way someone plays rock and roll, blues or any kind of folk or lighter music etc, using an EVH 5150 or an Peavey Invective. There just isnt.
> 
> Because it would be as dumb as Whitechapel (or similar brutal band) using a Fender Blues Deluxe on tour for their tones. Would not happen in a million years.



The massive threads places like TGP about the 5150 III full of blues, rock, country, and worship players pretty much shows you are objectively wrong.


----------



## lewis

scrub said:


> didn't the guy in the demo just prove that you can play blues and lighter rock on an Invective?



I mean from the "buying perspective". 
I would love to know, how many grandad blues buyers there are for this amp in 2 years time. Because there is no way I see these blues players (like Cap from Andertons for example) buys a 120 watt Peavey Invective, to play his cleanish, breakup, blues jams.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

A fender hot rod deluxe is the most br00tal amp ever created. Nothing makes people at guitar center uncomfortable like playing an 8 string through one


----------



## lewis

technomancer said:


> The massive threads places like TGP about the 5150 III full of blues, rock, country, and worship players pretty much shows you are objectively wrong.



Rock was a genre I listed twice as being included not excluded.
Well maybe others in different countries are more open minded. I can guarantee, in the area of the UK I live in, you would not find a single blues grandad/dad player, with a super duper high gain Peavey head.


----------



## lewis

KnightBrolaire said:


> A fender hot rod deluxe is the most br00tal amp ever created. Nothing makes people at guitar center uncomfortable like playing an 8 string through one





Hahahaha still needs that Maxon clean boost infront though right?. To tighten up that loose clean breakup mushy low end?


----------



## KnightBrolaire

lewis said:


> Hahahaha still needs that Maxon clean boost infront though right?. To tighten up that loose clean breakup mushy low end?



nah something magic about that amp, it stays tight, perfect for playing bleed by 'shuggah.


----------



## narad

lewis said:


> I mean from the "buying perspective".
> I would love to know, how many grandad blues buyers there are for this amp in 2 years time. Because there is no way I see these blues players (like Cap from Andertons for example) buys a 120 watt Peavey Invective, to play his cleanish, breakup, blues jams.



You'd be surprised what appeals to people. Maybe one of them likes the idea of a built in noise gate, or the better clean channel, or the powering pedals off the top of the head. 

The point being, SSO is quite niche, and like Techo referenced, if you walk over to TGP you'll find hundreds of guys who play bluesy / classic rock stuff on 5150s. Listen to some isolated tracks of early VH -- there's not that much gain going on there. So I mean, regarding that amp, you are objectively wrong. Whether Peavey can hit some of them with this without tying it to an iconic guitar player they know, I'm skeptical, but it's obviously worth trying!



lewis said:


> I can guarantee, in the area of the UK I live in, you would not find a single blues grandad/dad player, with a super duper high gain Peavey head.



There is, unsurprisingly, a whole world outside of Norfolk that companies would like to market their products to.


----------



## technomancer

narad said:


> You'd be surprised what appeals to people. Maybe one of them likes the idea of a built in noise gate, or the better clean channel, or the powering pickups off the top of the head.
> 
> The point being, SSO is quite niche, and like Techo referenced, if you walk over to TGP you'll find hundreds of guys who play bluesy / classic rock stuff on 5150s. Listen to some isolated tracks of early VH -- there's not that much gain going on there. So I mean, regarding that amp, you are objectively wrong. Whether Peavey can hit some of them with this without tying it to an iconic guitar player they know, I'm skeptical, but it's obviously worth trying!



Exactly.


----------



## bulb

haha


----------



## Semi-pro

lewis said:


> There is no way someone plays rock and roll, blues or any kind of folk or lighter music etc, using an EVH 5150 or an Peavey Invective. There just isnt.
> 
> Because it would be as dumb as Whitechapel (or similar brutal band) using a Fender Blues Deluxe on tour for their tones. Would not happen in a million years.



...the same way there's no way a rock, blues or folk musician would drive a Ferrari to go to a supermarket, because it would be as dumb as a racecar driver competing with a Datsun?

You don't need to use all the gain, and then it's just all about the tone. Some grandpa might like it. The amp migh be designed primarily for high gain applications, but even I would never use all the gain in my EVH even if I had to play some brutal slamming death metal because like with most amps today that's just way over the top 

Can't really blame Peavey for trying to sell a product for as big an audience as possible. I'm sure Eddie would never have guessed that his signature amp would become one of the most iconic amps of the future metal generations. Maybe most metalheads just give a shrug, keep playing their kempers and 6505's and this amp will be the hottest thing in Nashville in a few years!


----------



## prlgmnr

Not wanting to start a massive side argument about Van Halen (there is something about the guy that seems to lead to arguments) but the VH1 tone sounds like masses of gain to me. Maybe it's a lot of "hair" rather than gain, maybe this stuff is just a subjective mess that we can't talk about in any reasoned way.


----------



## narad

prlgmnr said:


> Not wanting to start a massive side argument about Van Halen (there is something about the guy that seems to lead to arguments) but the VH1 tone sounds like masses of gain to me. Maybe it's a lot of "hair" rather than gain, maybe this stuff is just a subjective mess that we can't talk about in any reasoned way.



I meant early Van Halen like, with respect to their whole history, so maybe we're differing there. I was thinking about a bunch of 1984 type mega popular tracks that I know for sure would sound to me like a 5150 III/Friedman or something on like 4/10 gain, unboosted, and very dry sounding. Like Panama is pretty backed off vs. what I thought it was. What most people would describe as "crunch channel". But checking out some proper early VH1 stuff in isolated tracks, it doesn't sound so different. I mean, it's heavy for the time, but it'd be a very conservative setting on modern amps (and I think surprisingly low in reality vs. what everyone covering VH tends to dial in).

That's all just to say that just because a gain knob goes to 10 doesn't mean that it has to be somewhere close to that or you risk being some stupid old blues dad who bought the wrong amp to play his stupid old blues. Probably doesn't even know who Tosin is...psssshhhh.


----------



## lewis

ah nice. 
Im going to order a Randall Satan and an Axe Fx to play bluegrass and some reggae then.


----------



## bhakan

I don't know why everyone is so mad about the video. They're obviously trying to sell the clean and crunch channels, which is what they should be doing. Misha has already said the gain is basically a slightly refined block letter with a built in gate and boost. All of us know exactly what a block letter sounds like. I'd take a guess that the minor adjustments between this and a block letter are probably something that a demo, especially a produced demo with eq and post production, would have difficulty conveying anyway.

Peavey's trying to ensure that this amp isn't seen as having a good clean channel _for a metal amp_, they want to let people know it's a good clean channel, period.


----------



## prlgmnr

I hope I'm around when Lewis is old enough to find young whippersnappers on forums complaining about Djent Dads with their stupid old 8 strings and what not.


----------



## technomancer

lewis said:


> ah nice.
> Im going to order a Randall Satan and an Axe Fx to play bluegrass and some reggae then.



So you really think only metal guys are using the Axe Fx?


----------



## lewis

technomancer said:


> So you really think only metal guys are using the Axe Fx?



and where exactly did i say that in my post?


----------



## lewis

prlgmnr said:


> I hope I'm around when Lewis is old enough to find young whippersnappers on forums complaining about Djent Dads with their stupid old 8 strings and what not.



hell im hoping it happens to me once my daughter is older than 1


----------



## narad

lewis said:


> ah nice.
> Im going to order a Randall Satan and an Axe Fx to play bluegrass and some reggae then.



Here's the important thing: *whatever works for you.*


----------



## bnzboy

prlgmnr said:


> Djent Dads with their stupid old 8 strings and what not.



DjentDads. Never thought about this before haha! That is hilarious.


----------



## cwhitey2

bulb said:


> haha


----------



## bulb

One important thing to remember with the amp is that it's alw


----------



## MattThePenguin

when can I buy that cab tho


----------



## bnzboy

bulb said:


> One important thing to remember with the amp is that it's alw



Hi Misha what is an ALW? It can't be August Long Weekend


----------



## prlgmnr

I think the Blues Dads got to him and silenced him in mid post.

They'll brainwash him and wheel him out again later on to announce "the Invective will now come finished in Aged Tweed, with a bonus pair of slippers"


----------



## FourT6and2

bnzboy said:


> Hi Misha what is an ALW? It can't be August Long Weekend



Angsty, lewd women
Almost legally wasted
Absolutely loaded walrus
Ambiguously lowered whippersnapper


----------



## Unleash The Fury

Well alright fine. Now that theres at least one dad blues demo out there, for the one person that plans on buying it to play dad blues.............please let the rest of the demos be geared toward metal!


----------



## Nitrobattery

Cool demo. I thought being able to go from clean, to blues to crunch to metal all in one box was the whole point. I always enjoyed the versatility of the EVH 5150, but prefered the tone of the Peavey versions. This seems like a nice marriage of everything. There are a ton of amps that can do 1 or 2 things. If this can cover a ton of ground, it'll be really well received with cover bands and session players as well as metal guitarists. This seems like it's the heavy equivalent of something like a Suhr PT-100. A Swiss Army Knife that can be used in a bunch of applications. Nice playing as well.


----------



## Lindmann

FourT6and2 said:


> Angsty, lewd women
> Almost legally wasted
> Absolutely loaded walrus
> Ambiguously lowered whippersnapper


A long wiener.

Jeez...so obvious.


----------



## cmtd

I'm looking into a new amp, and the invective has caught my attention. I've been playing a rectifier for years, and am ready for a change. I've always liked the 5150/6505 high gain sounds, however the major turn off for me has been the high noise floor the amps have. i.e. the static "hiss" you get when you turn up the channel volume, especially on the high gain channels. This could prove problematic for a mic'd cab in a live environment.



I had a 5150iii s EL34 for a few days, and returned it because of the noise, exactly like in the video above. I tried the NS2 in the fx loop, and it had a minimal effect in reducing the hiss.

I messaged Misha regarding this, and he said the gate would keep it dead silent. I know it has a built in gate, however it seems to be an input gate, and the noise seems to come from the preamp, which an input gate wouldn't solve. Perhaps the amp having a master volume would solve some of the issue. My mesa had master volume, so I never experienced the "hiss" problems I described above with it.


----------



## bulb

The amp is dead silent even at loud volumes with the gate on!


----------



## cmtd

bulb said:


> The amp is dead silent even at loud volumes with the gate on!



Thanks, wasn't that I didn't believe you, just didn't want to pester you with repeated messages.


----------



## Unleash The Fury

bulb said:


> The amp is dead silent even at loud volumes with the gate on!



Im impatiently waiting for that exact demo!


----------



## prlgmnr

Unleash The Fury said:


> Im impatiently waiting for that exact demo!



"The silence on this thing is really smooth, no ice-picky absences of noise. The low frequency silence in particular is extremely tight without not lacking fullness."

I'm actually liking this idea, can everyone crank their amps to the max and then see how nice a recording of 4'33 we can make? No cheating by, for example, not pressing record. Or not micing the cab. Or not turning the amp on. Or just not doing it and saying you did.


----------



## cmtd

prlgmnr said:


> "The silence on this thing is really smooth, no ice-picky absences of noise. The low frequency silence in particular is extremely tight without not lacking fullness."
> 
> I'm actually liking this idea, can everyone crank their amps to the max and then see how nice a recording of 4'33 we can make? No cheating by, for example, not pressing record. Or not micing the cab. Or not turning the amp on. Or just not doing it and saying you did.



lol? I guess it's out of line to want an amp that doesn't make noise.


----------



## prlgmnr

cmtd said:


> lol? I guess it's out of line to want an amp that doesn't make noise.



not at all, I was just mildly tickled because someone said they wanted to hear it on being told it was capable of being completely silent


----------



## technomancer

cmtd said:


> lol? I guess it's out of line to want an amp that doesn't make noise.



I think it's more that all tube high gain circuits hiss when the gain and volume are turned up, it's the nature of the beast... it's one if the main reasons noise gates exist


----------



## lewis

technomancer said:


> I think it's more that all tube high gain circuits hiss when the gain and volume are turned up, it's the nature of the beast... it's one if the main reasons noise gates exist



this 100%
im surprised gates didnt work with the lunchbox amps mentioned before. Ive had good success gating amp hiss via an effects loop. Either with physical gates, or digital gates on all in one modellers like an pod hd pro


----------



## cmtd

lewis said:


> this 100%
> im surprised gates didnt work with the lunchbox amps mentioned before. Ive had good success gating amp hiss via an effects loop. Either with physical gates, or digital gates on all in one modellers like an pod hd pro




Not to derail the thread, however.

I had the 100w EVH stealth EL34. It did exactly the same thing as that lunchbox head in the video in my original post, with a gate in front, in the loop, or both, even with nothing plugged into the amp. That hiss, like in the video would be unusable in an situation with the cab mic'd in my opinion. Sure the amp sounded great with the volume on 1, or while you were playing with it turned up. Stop playing and the hiss appeared. I'm not sure if I had a bad head or anything. EVH said it was normal. The 6505s and other 5150iii's I tried all responded in a similar way. I know numerous people use these live, I'm not sure how, with what I have experienced.

Again, I never had these issues with my rectifier. It was basically dead quiet when you stopped playing with a gate in front of the amp. My only assumption is because it was a master volume amp. Hence, why I assumed the invective might solve this problem, while providing a 5150 based high gain tone.


----------



## bulb

Yeah the gate on this thing keeps it tame and silent at volumes I would never dream of using (our FOH would quit haha).

When I was in Meridian, we were testing one of the later revisions in their auditorium and said it was good to crank it, which I did. Or so I thought, then they told me to turn it up. This amp does get stupidly loud, but it was nice to be able to test the features at that level, and it was nice that everything still worked wonderfully at absurd levels!


----------



## Andromalia

lewis said:


> ah nice.
> Im going to order a Randall Satan and an Axe Fx to play bluegrass and some reggae then.



Well I do use my axe fx to play reggae. I use it to play everything in fact, that's ont of the points of having a modeler with zillions of amps available.
Most gear can be used for non high gain applications, I did my last reggae recording with the axefx and a Luke II with EMGs with the JTM 45.

What I find weirder is that people would still actually need 100+ watt heads. Both the recording tech and live sound tech have progressed so much that you can get pristine cleans without needing an ungodly wattage because you have to play loud. Same goes for "modern high gain" with no power amp saturation. Stage volume has dropped considerably from the 70es, while sound quality in live shows has skyrocketed.
You can get miked up in almost all live venues now, if I had to pick I'd choose a 20w power amp which is plenty loud enough for everything. A 20w mesa 20/20 already is blasting at 25%.


----------



## TedEH

^ It's been said before though, it's not about volume, it's about what the headroom does for your sound. I don't know the science behind it, but it seems like more tubes and bigger output transformers make a lot of difference to the feel of an amp, and in particular the character of the low end. Sure, 20w is "enough" but it's going to feel thin, compressed, wimpy, etc. next to a 100w amp.


----------



## lewis

Andromalia said:


> Well I do use my axe fx to play reggae. I use it to play everything in fact, that's ont of the points of having a modeler with zillions of amps available.
> Most gear can be used for non high gain applications, I did my last reggae recording with the axefx and a Luke II with EMGs with the JTM 45.
> 
> What I find weirder is that people would still actually need 100+ watt heads. Both the recording tech and live sound tech have progressed so much that you can get pristine cleans without needing an ungodly wattage because you have to play loud. Same goes for "modern high gain" with no power amp saturation. Stage volume has dropped considerably from the 70es, while sound quality in live shows has skyrocketed.
> You can get miked up in almost all live venues now, if I had to pick I'd choose a 20w power amp which is plenty loud enough for everything. A 20w mesa 20/20 already is blasting at 25%.



when I said "Randall Satan" first, then axe fx, assumed people would understand I meant "metal amp" using Axe FX "effects".

Try recording reggae with a randall satan then come back?


----------



## jerm

lewis said:


> when I said "Randall Satan" first, then axe fx, assumed people would understand I meant "metal amp" using Axe FX "effects".
> 
> Try recording reggae with a randall satan then come back?


Just because it's a quote/un-quote metal amp, doesn't mean it can't do reggae....

All you need is a decent clean channel and decent high gain tone and you could do many different styles in between. Sure it's not a fender clean, but that doesn't mean it can't do it.

Look at the Dual Rect and Uberschall or SLO-100, all high gain monsters. But they also have good clean channels which doesn't mean they can't do pop/clean or even jazz.


----------



## Andromalia

TedEH said:


> ^ It's been said before though, it's not about volume, it's about what the headroom does for your sound. I don't know the science behind it, but it seems like more tubes and bigger output transformers make a lot of difference to the feel of an amp, and in particular the character of the low end. Sure, 20w is "enough" but it's going to feel thin, compressed, wimpy, etc. next to a 100w amp.



You will notice I expressly talked about headroom in my post to avoid having dudes chiming in "watts aren't volume", yes, I know. 
For the most part, 20w amps don't feel "thin and compressed" compared to a 100W amps because the 100w amp guy with his 4x12 gets told to play at volume 1 on his amp by the venue manager. If you're playing stadiums, good for you, but that's not something most people do. For the record I play the axefx direct to PA if available, through a 20 watt tube power amp and a 1x12 miked if not.


----------



## bulb

Andromalia said:


> You will notice I expressly talked about headroom in my post to avoid having dudes chiming in "watts aren't volume", yes, I know.
> For the most part, 20w amps don't feel "thin and compressed" compared to a 100W amps because the 100w amp guy with his 4x12 gets told to play at volume 1 on his amp by the venue manager. If you're playing stadiums, good for you, but that's not something most people do. For the record I play the axefx direct to PA if available, through a 20 watt tube power amp and a 1x12 miked if not.



20 watt high gain amp through a 1x12 will have very compressed low mids at volume, especially if you are palm muting in lower tunings. The wattage is to be able to handle those frequencies well at volume, at bedroom volumes you won't notice much if any difference.


----------



## TedEH

Andromalia said:


> For the most part, 20w amps don't feel "thin and compressed" compared to a 100W amps



As an owner of both 20w and 100w amps, I disagree with you. I regularly use amps of both sizes at home, in band context, and at shows, and in every scenario you can feel the difference.


----------



## McKay

> You will notice I expressly talked about headroom in my post to avoid having dudes chiming in "watts aren't volume", yes, I know.
> For the most part, 20w amps don't feel "thin and compressed" compared to a 100W amps because the 100w amp guy with his 4x12 gets told to play at volume 1 on his amp by the venue manager. If you're playing stadiums, good for you, but that's not something most people do. For the record I play the axefx direct to PA if available, through a 20 watt tube power amp and a 1x12 miked if not.



I've never had my amp on 1 at a show and never been asked to have it on 1.


----------



## McKay

cmtd said:


> Not to derail the thread, however.
> 
> I had the 100w EVH stealth EL34. It did exactly the same thing as that lunchbox head in the video in my original post, with a gate in front, in the loop, or both, even with nothing plugged into the amp. That hiss, like in the video would be unusable in an situation with the cab mic'd in my opinion. Sure the amp sounded great with the volume on 1, or while you were playing with it turned up. Stop playing and the hiss appeared. I'm not sure if I had a bad head or anything. EVH said it was normal. The 6505s and other 5150iii's I tried all responded in a similar way. I know numerous people use these live, I'm not sure how, with what I have experienced.
> 
> Again, I never had these issues with my rectifier. It was basically dead quiet when you stopped playing with a gate in front of the amp. My only assumption is because it was a master volume amp. Hence, why I assumed the invective might solve this problem, while providing a 5150 based high gain tone.



Hiss is bad but the noisefloor on 5150s is not so bad as to be unusable live by virtue of being used live all the time, it's a very very popular amp. Also most venues large enough to necessitate micing your cab up will have gates available.


----------



## Drezik27

Just a FYI for everyone

I reached out to Sweetwater as I'm looking to grab either one of these or another 2x12 relatively soon, response below:

"This is Mitch from Sweetwater. Matt is out of the office today and I'm giving him a hand. I wanted to get back with you about your email from earlier. It looks like right now we're scheduled to get those Peavey Invective cabs in around mid-July. They are some great sounding cabs! 

Let me know if you'd like me to put you on the preorder list or if there's any other questions I can answer!"


----------



## lewis

Drezik27 said:


> Just a FYI for everyone
> 
> I reached out to Sweetwater as I'm looking to grab either one of these or another 2x12 relatively soon, response below:
> 
> "This is Mitch from Sweetwater. Matt is out of the office today and I'm giving him a hand. I wanted to get back with you about your email from earlier. It looks like right now we're scheduled to get those Peavey Invective cabs in around mid-July. They are some great sounding cabs!
> 
> Let me know if you'd like me to put you on the preorder list or if there's any other questions I can answer!"



Good news!!
Are they doing a 2x12 matching Cab?. sorry if thats been answered!. Wouldnt mind grabbing one if so and adding it to my Laney 2x12


----------



## Drezik27

lewis said:


> Good news!!
> Are they doing a 2x12 matching Cab?. sorry if thats been answered!. Wouldnt mind grabbing one if so and adding it to my Laney 2x12



Yes they are, Sweetwater has them listed at $650


----------



## PrestoDone

release date for the amp anyone?


----------



## KnightBrolaire

PrestoDone said:


> release date for the amp anyone?


 mid-july.


----------



## xCaptainx

I've been told near end of year for Australia/NZ, which has put a damper on my plans.


----------



## Shoeless_jose

I hope the 2x12 is a reasonable price in Canadian dollars, I think it would be a great replacement for my 1960B 4x12


----------



## PrestoDone

Just got off the horn with ben, my sweetwater sales engineer, and he says i am in the first shipment of the invective and it might ship next week. I did order mine on jan 28, 2017 so if you ordered one around that date check your emails starting next week


----------



## beavis2306

Is that for the actual amp? I got the impression from some earlier posts that they were releasing the cab in the near future but the head was delayed for whatever reason.


----------



## PrestoDone

Yes it is for the actual amp....depending when you ordered it you might get it in a few weeks or till august.....i am stoked


beavis2306 said:


> Is that for the actual amp? I got the impression from some earlier posts that they were releasing the cab in the near future but the head was delayed for whatever reason.


----------



## MattThePenguin

PrestoDone said:


> Yes it is for the actual amp....depending when you ordered it you might get it in a few weeks or till august.....i am stoked



Post some vids when you get it man!


----------



## PrestoDone

MattThePenguin said:


> Post some vids when you get it man!



I will man!


----------



## bulb

PrestoDone said:


> I will man!


That's so exciting. I got word that the first production units are almost ready to ship, so I hope that you love the amp as much as I do when you get it!!

Edit: 
Also when you get it, be sure to play around with the master volume/channel volume ratios. Keeping the master low and channel volume high will give you more midrange and tame the top end which I find better for live or louder playing, and vice versa will scoop it and you will get more "air", which I find sounds better for recording.


----------



## BadSeed

The more I read about this, the more excited I am for it to release.

I already own 4 different amps in the 5150/6505 lineage, but I will more than likely end up scooping this thing up as well.


----------



## cmtd

PrestoDone said:


> Just got off the horn with ben, my sweetwater sales engineer, and he says i am in the first shipment of the invective and it might ship next week. I did order mine on jan 28, 2017 so if you ordered one around that date check your emails starting next week



I ordered this amp fairly early as well, through guitar center. 2 weeks ago I was told it would be in and ready to ship last week. I just got off the phone with them, and I was told it will now be mid august before they plan to have them in stock.


----------



## DarthV

Dineley said:


> I hope the 2x12 is a reasonable price in Canadian dollars, I think it would be a great replacement for my 1960B 4x12



Cosmo has the 212 cab listed at $999CAD, so $60 more than the Mesa or Orange 2x12's.


----------



## Drezik27

cmtd said:


> I ordered this amp fairly early as well, through guitar center. 2 weeks ago I was told it would be in and ready to ship last week. I just got off the phone with them, and I was told it will now be mid august before they plan to have them in stock.



Bummer man. I asked Sweetwater about the cab again and they said July 12th.


----------



## Deadpool_25

bulb said:


> Seriously though if you need a left handed version of the amp, I can talk to Peavey's Custom Shop and help get that pushed through!



On a serious note, does Peavey actually have a custom shop? Because I would love to order an Invective with a black face plate.


----------



## Deadpool_25

I ordered through Sweetwater yesterday evening. I'm just an intermediate player trying to learn for my own satisfaction.

I'm closer to 50 than 40, and I'm always hunting an amp that is super versatile. I want it to be able to do everything at least fairly well from jazz to blues to pop to rock to metal, etc. I have an Axe FX because it can do all that no problem, but tweaking can be daunting sometimes so I started looking into tube amps again.

I picked up a Mesa TC-50 because Of its versatility. Ordered an Invective because it seems to be able to as well (and has the benefit of those 5150 high/mid gain sounds which are ...ing awesome).

So I'm glad that newest video was posted. I mean, it seems incredibly obvious that it'll do the high gain stuff well. If it isn't obvious enough even without the previous videos, Misha's couple of videos are pretty solid evidence. And when more videos pop up, I'm guessing 75-85% of them will be high gain stuff.

I dunno, I guess I'm just a blues grandpa...oh wait. I don't have any kids. And I like a shitload more types of music than just one.


----------



## Deadpool_25

Sorry for consecutive posts but just called Sweetwater. Their ETA now seems to be mid August.


----------



## bulb

Man I'm sorry for the delays with the amp, it's on the production side of things as always, getting new products up and running to where you can scale so you can build 1000 as easily as you can build 10 is always the tough part, but thanks for your patience guys!


----------



## Deadpool_25

bulb said:


> Man I'm sorry for the delays with the amp, it's on the production side of things as always, getting new products up and running to where you can scale so you can build 1000 as easily as you can build 10 is always the tough part, but thanks for your patience guys!



No worries Misha. Have them build mine with a black faceplate and we'll call it even.


----------



## Panacea224

Hey Misha, strongly considering picking an Invective up. I'm wondering if you know if the tone will vary greatly playing through two V30's vs the matching cab? I'm guessing the creamback smooths out the tone a bit?


----------



## Deadpool_25

Misha, how's that traditional pedalboard coming? Get a rig rundown/demo video up with that and the Invective. We are way overdue for more Invective


----------



## Tachy

Misha, the Invective will also be available in italy ?


----------



## Drezik27

Talked to my Sweetwater guy yesterday, said I should have the cab by the end of next week. 

Starting to get excited


----------



## Deadpool_25

Drezik27 said:


> Talked to my Sweetwater guy yesterday, said I should have the cab by the end of next week.
> 
> Starting to get excited



Nice. I've been going back and forth about ordering the cab.


----------



## mookcore

Drezik27 said:


> Talked to my Sweetwater guy yesterday, said I should have the cab by the end of next week.
> 
> Starting to get excited



Did they mention anything about when the heads were going to arrive ? Albeit I didn't order mine thru sweetwater .


----------



## Drezik27

mookcore said:


> Did they mention anything about when the heads were going to arrive ? Albeit I didn't order mine thru sweetwater .



I didn't ask about the head. I went on their website and it looks like it will be a bit still. 

*Cab:*
Arriving Soon
We expect more from Peavey in just a few days. Reserve yours now, risk-free.

*Head:*
More On The Way
This item requires extra delivery time from Peavey. Reserve yours now, risk-free, or contact us for more information.


----------



## mookcore

Drezik27 said:


> I didn't ask about the head. I went on their website and it looks like it will be a bit still.
> 
> *Cab:*
> Arriving Soon
> We expect more from Peavey in just a few days. Reserve yours now, risk-free.
> 
> *Head:*
> More On The Way
> This item requires extra delivery time from Peavey. Reserve yours now, risk-free, or contact us for more information.



Damn that sucks. I was told by GC that I was supposed to get mine around the 10th of last month. Currently don't have an amp so I'm fucking dying !


----------



## Ironbird666

I just placed one on order. My Sweetwater guy said they are expecting them around the 16th of August.


----------



## Deadpool_25

Yeah, that's what my Sweetwater guy said too. Mid August.


----------



## mookcore

Deadpool_25 said:


> Yeah, that's what my Sweetwater guy said too. Mid August.


Everything I know is a lie and nothing is sacred !


----------



## cmtd

mookcore said:


> Damn that sucks. I was told by GC that I was supposed to get mine around the 10th of last month. Currently don't have an amp so I'm fucking dying !



Exact same boat I am in currently. Was told the same thing from GC. Mid august seems to be the date everyone is getting lately.


----------



## mookcore

bulb said:


> That's so exciting. I got word that the first production units are almost ready to ship, so I hope that you love the amp as much as I do when you get it!!
> 
> Edit:
> Also when you get it, be sure to play around with the master volume/channel volume ratios. Keeping the master low and channel volume high will give you more midrange and tame the top end which I find better for live or louder playing, and vice versa will scoop it and you will get more "air", which I find sounds better for recording.


Hey just wondering how the the foot switch works. I see that some of the switches has multiple functions. Is it easy to operate or is there still going to be some tap dancing involved


----------



## Deadpool_25

mookcore said:


> Hey just wondering how the the foot switch works. I see that some of the switches has multiple functions. Is it easy to operate or is there still going to be some tap dancing involved



I thought Misha stated in the NAMM unveiling that the foot switch is basically just a MIDI controller? I could be misremembering.

EDIT: Yup. About 4:26 in this video


----------



## mookcore

Does anyone have any idea how the foot switch operates? Like I see that there is a few functions for a few of the switches .


Deadpool_25 said:


> I thought Misha stated in the NAMM unveiling that the foot switch is basically just a MIDI controller? I could be misremembering.
> 
> EDIT: Yup. About 4:26 in this video



thanks man . Must have overlooked it . Mid / late august couldn't come sooner


----------



## JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo

Mid/late August, hmm? If only my RG7 wasn't projected to be completed at around that time. Might have to do some overtime.


----------



## feraledge




----------



## Unleash The Fury

Cool video i suppose. But when will we get a quality video that gets right to the brootz?


----------



## Deadpool_25

Meh. Not a fan of that video. I'm sure Mitch and Don are great guys but they always bore me .

I do love that the amp seems like it can cover a lot of ground. I'm a fan of versatility. I'd love to see a series of videos where it's "The Peavey Invective does (insert genre here)"

Jazz, blues, rock, grunge, heavy metal, metal, prog, djent, etc.


----------



## narad

Thought it sounded good but not versatile. Seems to have the same versatility as a 5150III.


----------



## El Caco

Everything about that video was terrible, especially the tones.


----------



## lewis

so as I got stick for before in this thread I believe, any one who isnt a high gain player would be wasted with this amp. These dudes /\ clearly are not (the sweetwater vid) and because of it, they make the amp sound dreadful.

No blues players will buy this. I will stand by that. If its not some boutique old school style amp, they could not dial in tones that suit their playing to save their lives.

Im sure this is going to be an amazing amp, but the demos that will make it sound as amazing as it will likely be, will be the modern metal demos from dudes who specialize in that genre. Amazing ambient cleans with super gated low tuned rhythms etc.

Sick of these types of demos personally.


----------



## El Caco

lewis said:


> so as I got stick for before in this thread I believe, any one who isnt a high gain player would be wasted with this amp. These dudes /\ clearly are not (the sweetwater vid) and because of it, they make the amp sound dreadful.
> 
> No blues players will buy this. I will stand by that. If its not some boutique old school style amp, they could not dial in tones that suit their playing to save their lives.
> 
> Im sure this is going to be an amazing amp, but the demos that will make it sound as amazing as it will likely be, will be the modern metal demos from dudes who specialize in that genre. Amazing ambient cleans with super gated low tuned rhythms etc.
> 
> Sick of these types of demos personally.


I've realised no one on Youtube knows how to dial in gear. You have some guys who can dial in any gear for their specific sound but no one seems to understand how to build any tone. And just as few people realise the tone in the fingers concept when you see non Metal players try to get what they think Metal tones are without any understanding of Metal playing techniques. And most of the time those guys seem to think Metal means turn the mids to 7 o'clock, throw in some saw dust and chug. They turn the gain to 5 o'clock and expect the amp to be as fizzy as f'k to make up for having no mids. I see all these non Metal guys saying Djent all the time or describe Metal as that style of start/stop chugging. 

If only they knew of the big Metal bands that still get their tone with a OD into a JCM. I saw Michael Amott not too long ago talking about his rig, he said he wasn't endorsed by anyone and just plays what he wants. Can't recall now if it was a TS or 808 but all he said he used live was the OD into a 50w JCM800 and a Wah.

Then you see a guy with a studio try and record a Metal mix and the guy can play but you can't hear his guitars because they are buried.

And with all these modellers it isn't going to get any better. The guys who learn about tone are the guys who start with a good clean amp and have to learn how to get all their tones from that.

I'm not a fan of 5150's but with all the bells and whistles this thing has if people on Youtube can't work out how to get sweet tones out of it I think they shouldn't be doing gear demos.


----------



## lewis

El Caco said:


> I've realised no one on Youtube knows how to dial in gear. You have some guys who can dial in any gear for their specific sound but no one seems to understand how to build any tone. And just as few people realise the tone in the fingers concept when you see non Metal players try to get what they think Metal tones are without any understanding of Metal playing techniques. And most of the time those guys seem to think Metal means turn the mids to 7 o'clock, throw in some saw dust and chug. They turn the gain to 5 o'clock and expect the amp to be as fizzy as f'k to make up for having no mids. I see all these non Metal guys saying Djent all the time or describe Metal as that style of start/stop chugging.
> 
> If only they knew of the big Metal bands that still get their tone with a OD into a JCM. I saw Michael Amott not too long ago talking about his rig, he said he wasn't endorsed by anyone and just plays what he wants. Can't recall now if it was a TS or 808 but all he said he used live was the OD into a 50w JCM800 and a Wah.
> 
> Then you see a guy with a studio try and record a Metal mix and the guy can play but you can't hear his guitars because they are buried.
> 
> And with all these modellers it isn't going to get any better. The guys who learn about tone are the guys who start with a good clean amp and have to learn how to get all their tones from that.
> 
> I'm not a fan of 5150's but with all the bells and whistles this thing has if people on Youtube can't work out how to get sweet tones out of it I think they shouldn't be doing gear demos.


I wish I could do more than just like this post.

Exactly how I feel and to me, is the truth. Im now realising this myself regards to just simple pedal and tube amp > cabinet route.

if the technique is dreadful then running through a $20,000 rig, would not make any difference whatsoever


----------



## El Caco

Yeah I just thought of all the Blackstar ID series demos I've seen. Those amps have 6 voices including 2 boutique style cleans, a crunch, a JCM style super crunch and 2 super high gain OD channels. And I'm not kidding in most of the demos you see guys start with the gain turned right down on the clean channels but too high on the crunch channels and by the time they get to the OD they have the gain pinned so that it is a super compressed, chainsaw fizzy mess.

I just shake my head. I wonder what these guys normally play? Jazz?

Oh and my favourites that they all do. I just finished a phase so now I need to grab that bar and wiggle, there is a moment in that video where he kind of fumbles for it, I thought it was hilarious. Then there are the moments when you just want to hear what the amp sounds like but they bury the tone with effects. I prefer it without even reverb but I can live with a little but when an amp has onboard effect holy crap do these guys lose the plot and suddenly it becomes a video of lets see how overboard and stupid we can make these FX sound. They may as well be playing a keyboard.


----------



## mnemonic

The best example is watching Paul from GuitarWorld demo a metal guitar or metal amp. I don't know how he makes that stuff sound so bad. 

He's probably perfectly fine for demoing clean or lightly driven amps and guitars. But nothing for metal. The way he sets the amps and the way he plays doesn't work for that.


----------



## Beheroth

demo with actual br00tz (at 1:40)


----------



## lewis

Beheroth said:


> demo with actual br00tz (at 1:40)



exactly as we called it.

The amp only sounds amazing through the hands of metal players who actually know what they are doing.

the riffs from 1:56 onwards are seriously sick! \m/


----------



## El Caco

Misha? Whoever it is, I'm guessing you care about Peavey. Please make objective reviews happen. Peavey's problem is they tend to only stick to advertorials and advertorials don't give the consumer the information they are looking for. If you only ever want to sell to a niche then fine. That's why there is no hype about the Vypyr even though they are so much better than the Katana and most other modelling amps in that category. 

You can't make a buying decision from a 3 minute video or even a 10 minute video that says "This amp is awesome". Guitarists don't have a problem watching multiple 40 minute videos if the people presenting are interesting and the videos contain the info they are looking for. And more often than not because of the issues mentioned in the earlier post they need to watch multiple videos. They are not looking to be told they need something by people who don't know what they need, they want a video that tells them everything about an amp so they know if it is what they are looking for. The more features it has, the longer the video needs to be. And most importantly if the guy doing the video isn't having fun, doesn't go off script and get lost in the amp, how can we expect to have fun and get lost in it?

The biggest thing I take away from the approach companies like Peavey take with the way they put their products out is they don't have confidence in their products. If you are worried about unpredictable "loose cannons" saying something bad about your product they are not the problem, the problem is why can they say something bad about the product? Good products have nothing to fear. So why is Peavey always afraid?

I've been wanting someone at Peavey to wake up and realise this forever. It kind of bugs me the way some of their awesome products go unnoticed while everyone acts like comparatively shit stuff is the second coming. So since someone seems to be paying attention and can get this information where it needs to be I'm hoping this might help change that.


----------



## El Caco

Oh and not TK. That's like a 40 minute advertorial which is worse.


----------



## Deadpool_25

I feel that companies simply don't hire the right guys to do the demos most of the time. They seem to have one or two guys, usually good players, but who are only really good at one thing. I suppose it's tough to find a player who is equally adept at playing a lot of different stuff. Thus, companies would be better served by picking four or five players who are very good at that one thing, then making four or five demos of those guys doing their thing with the products. Mesa is somewhat decent at that. They have a few different folks doing a few different styles. The Mark 5:25 demos with Andy Timmons and John Petrucci were instrumental in my decision to purchase those. Andy showed stuff from jazzy, to poppy, to rockin. JP showed how brutal the amp could get. Great variation in styles and tones. Still, even Mesa could do it better by being more focused.

And I wholeheartedly disagree with the sentiment that "this is just a metal players' amp, no blues guys are going to buy it so they shouldn't be demoing that stuff." I realize I may be in the vast, vast minority so take this for what it's worth, but I want an amp that is great at anything. So I want to hear a demo of, in this example, the Invective doing some George Benson and Joe Pass style jazz. I want to see another demo of some cat ripping some SRV and Hendrix licks. I want a demo with some 80's style rock and/or shredder stuff. Give me some KSE, Metallica, etc. Give me another demo with some instrumental metal like Scale the Summit, Plini, Animals as Leaders, Covet. Hell, I want to hear some more pop oriented stuff like John Mayer on the damn thing.

Make them different videos. The Invective Does Jazz. The Invective does Blues. Etc. A player who does metal exclusively doesn't need to watch the other videos; they can just watch the metal one and decide based on that (and hopefully actual in-person demos).

I find it frustrating when companies limit themselves to just basically one target audience when their products can clearly be good for so many more people. This is why I liked the video where Victor LaRocca was doing his thing on the Invective. He's not a metal guy, but he talked about and showed pulling a few other nice tones out of the amp. In my opinion, we need more of that stuff, not less. Of course you need some strong demos for the assumed target audience, but a few solid demos showing other styles is absolutely warranted IMO.


----------



## bluffalo

or simply go down and plug in to it for yourself when ever it becomes available?


----------



## El Caco

Deadpool_25 said:


> I feel that companies simply don't hire the right guys to do the demos most of the time. They seem to have one or two guys, usually good players, but who are only really good at one thing. I suppose it's tough to find a player who is equally adept at playing a lot of different stuff. Thus, companies would be better served by picking four or five players who are very good at that one thing, then making four or five demos of those guys doing their thing with the products. Mesa is somewhat decent at that. They have a few different folks doing a few different styles. The Mark 5:25 demos with Andy Timmons and John Petrucci were instrumental in my decision to purchase those. Andy showed stuff from jazzy, to poppy, to rockin. JP showed how brutal the amp could get. Great variation in styles and tones. Still, even Mesa could do it better by being more focused.
> 
> And I wholeheartedly disagree with the sentiment that "this is just a metal players' amp, no blues guys are going to buy it so they shouldn't be demoing that stuff." I realize I may be in the vast, vast minority so take this for what it's worth, but I want an amp that is great at anything. So I want to hear a demo of, in this example, the Invective doing some George Benson and Joe Pass style jazz. I want to see another demo of some cat ripping some SRV and Hendrix licks. I want a demo with some 80's style rock and/or shredder stuff. Give me some KSE, Metallica, etc. Give me another demo with some instrumental metal like Scale the Summit, Plini, Animals as Leaders, Covet. Hell, I want to hear some more pop oriented stuff like John Mayer on the damn thing.
> 
> Make them different videos. The Invective Does Jazz. The Invective does Blues. Etc. A player who does metal exclusively doesn't need to watch the other videos; they can just watch the metal one and decide based on that (and hopefully actual in-person demos).
> 
> I find it frustrating when companies limit themselves to just basically one target audience when their products can clearly be good for so many more people. This is why I liked the video where Victor LaRocca was doing his thing on the Invective. He's not a metal guy, but he talked about and showed pulling a few other nice tones out of the amp. In my opinion, we need more of that stuff, not less. Of course you need some strong demos for the assumed target audience, but a few solid demos showing other styles is absolutely warranted IMO.



That's the thing, for a objective review or demo to be valuable you really need someone to take the time to try and do everything with it. 

This is so important because tone is subjective. So you need people to try and play a variety of genres with it and they need to film the process and spend time trying to dial it in. Of course it doesn't help if they have no idea how to dial in that tone. 

But I think it is important not to approach it from the perspective of a genre, if you do that you limit the amp too much. I'd rather see people work through the range of a channel and to do it with more than one guitar. That's why the Anderton's videos kind of work even if they are a kind of advertorial. What they have going for them is 2 different guitarists with different guitars trying different things. Even though they don't always know what they are doing, make mistakes and barely scratch the surface you can usually learn something watching them and I find them entertaining even when they frustrate me by saying something completely wrong or just failing hard. 

For me the best videos are when someone might start with the clean channel and work their way through the gain, trying what ever they feel inspired to do along the way. Then push the boost button and work through it again. Does it have a bright switch, then you might need to run through a few more times. How does the EQ react, does the EQ effect the gain characteristics? The more complicated, the more versatile a amp is means you need to spend more time testing it. These videos are fun because if the guy knows what he is doing and he's a cool guy it can be like you are hanging out with him while testing an amp.

How does each channel interact with various pedals? What happens when you roll the volume off on each channel?

Then after he has tested the various channels I like it if he comes back and tries to dial in specific genres. Can you do blues on the clean? How about on the Crunch and how does rolling off the gain on the amp or the volume on the guitar effect it? How about on the Lead? How do they all compare for Blues? When the clean doesn't work well for blues is it because it is too pristine so does it work much better for Jazz?

To me it seems to be starting off with a 5150 style power amp so to me that makes this amp potentially best suited to modern metal and with the right clean channel could potentially be very F amp like. A few years ago I would have described that as the perfect amp. These days I probably lean more to British amps. I think both extremes are a compromise, each does things better than the other and I think El84's are the best all rounder but lack head room and not ideal live. If I had to pick a side these days I'd rather fight El34 British voiced amps because their strengths are more appealing to me but I concede this style of American amp has the potential to be better at a lot of things while still very capable at others. 

I doubt I'll grab one as there are more appealing amps than this to me now but I still want to see what this thing can do in the right hands.



bluffalo said:


> or simply go down and plug in to it for yourself when ever it becomes available?


That will never be an option for someone like me. This type of amp will never be stocked locally. I'll need to drive 4-6 hours to try one of these out.

Also the power of the internet can be powerful considering the limit of testing in store.

I tested an amp the other day and loved it. So much that I was pretty sure I'd come back and buy it. Then after watching many many videos that made it sound like shit I started to second guess myself. I started to wonder if it actually sounded as good as i thought it did in the store or if my ears were having a bad day when I tried it and perhaps the videos were more representative. I thought perhaps the reason it sounds bad in all the videos is because it really wasn't as good as I first thought it was. I watched so many videos, it seemed like over a hundred. But finally I found one channel that I'd never seen before do a demo that not only showed me the sound without effects but showed me exactly what I remembered hearing in the shop. The best part was they did multiple videos with 2 different guitarists each mic'd slightly different but their result was consistent with what I'd already heard.

Even though I'd already tested that amp briefly the incredible number of company made advertorials featuring company employees are what almost turned me off the amp.


----------



## Unleash The Fury

Me personally, if im looking for metal specific reviews, i dont want to watch a 40 minute long video that demonstrates a variety of styles and tones. I get bored and tired rather quickly. I just dont have the patience to sit through something that long. I want to get straight to the meat of it. 

Thats part of why i dislike Chappers videos......i just want to hear some damn playing. I find myself clicking on the timeline to skip ahead a few minutes at a time. And each time the video loads and plays, theyre fucking talking again!! Again that may be my own problem because of my impatience. But i value my free time and i dont want to hear the opinions of people i want to hear the tones for myself!

And lets all be real here, when it comes to guitars/amps Peavey is not known for much of anything other than being for rock/metal!


----------



## feraledge

narad said:


> Thought it sounded good but not versatile. Seems to have the same versatility as a 5150III.


All I want to hear is how this stacks up against the EVH. Particularly the high gain channel.


----------



## El Caco

Unleash The Fury said:


> Me personally, if im looking for metal specific reviews, i dont want to watch a 40 minute long video that demonstrates a variety of styles and tones. I get bored and tired rather quickly. I just dont have the patience to sit through something that long. I want to get straight to the meat of it.
> 
> Thats part of why i dislike Chappers videos......i just want to hear some damn playing. I find myself clicking on the timeline to skip ahead a few minutes at a time. And each time the video loads and plays, theyre fucking talking again!! Again that may be my own problem because of my impatience. But i value my free time and i dont want to hear the opinions of people i want to hear the tones for myself!



I have no doubt you'll get plenty of Metal specific videos. I can see you value your time but the problem is if you just want to hear people playing Metal through the amp you are probably wasting your time. Is it a produced track? Hasn't Misha already made them? Can you see what settings the guy is using? Does he show you multiple settings? I don't know how any video even a Metal specific video can be good and short. If you watch a short video and the tone isn't your thing how can you be sure it isn't the way he dialled it in?



Unleash The Fury said:


> And lets all be real here, when it comes to guitars/amps Peavey is not known for much of anything other than being for rock/metal!



That really is their own fault because they may not be known for the other stuff but they have made a range of amps that rival the others in everything, they build great sounding gear but their marketing and PR suck.


----------



## Unleash The Fury

El Caco said:


> I have no doubt you'll get plenty of Metal specific videos. I can see you value your time but the problem is if you just want to hear people playing Metal through the amp you are probably wasting your time. Is it a produced track? Hasn't Misha already made them? Can you see what settings the guy is using? Does he show you multiple settings? I don't know how any video even a Metal specific video can be good and short. If you watch a short video and the tone isn't your thing how can you be sure it isn't the way he dialled it in?
> 
> 
> 
> That really is their own fault because they may not be known for the other stuff but they have made a range of amps that rival the others in everything, they build great sounding gear but their marketing and PR suck.



There are plenty of gear review videos that have a second window in the corner showing a hand turning knobs in real time, its not hard to do.

But really i think gear demos videos are meant to stear someone in the right direction so you know what to try out at a guitar store; if you already havent randomly walked in and tried one. At least thats how i use gear videos. I use the videos as a compass, my inspiration to go to the store and try/buy one.

I know not everyone has a store nearby so they can just run to and try gear. Those people should watch lots of gear demos. Those people can watch the 40 minutes long videos.

As i was saying, I just want a shorter and sweet one that gets right to the point. It shouldnt be difficult for someone within the Peavey company to make such a video by now.

I know he already has a demo video out. but if i remember it was a cell phone video recording. 

And does Peavey not know Misha plays modern metal?? Geesh!


----------



## lewis

Peavey =

*Works with the worlds biggest modern metal guitarist on new amp suitable for said genre*
*Said guitarist brilliantly explains online about all its features creating hype in the metal/guitarist world*
*after some time, Peavey releases a fair few review demo videos using 58 year old mid life crisis dads who specialize in Bon Jovi and Blues but are trying their hand at metal....playing some terrible incarnation of Metallica but worse, as their way to show off the amp*
*Internet explodes about how the reviews are pointless and dont showcase the amp properly*

after everything Peavey have achieved, and especially how much success their products have had in the metal world....how in this day and age are they still making high gain modern metal monsters, then using retired "rock n Roll dads" in their worthless reviews for them? Its unreal

We should have had the Horizon Devices type reviews.
Send amps out to Keith merrow, Ola Englund, Jason Richardson, Jeff Loomis and anyone else willing who nails high gain and modern metal tones and production and ensure that bare play through's were included so we hear raw amp sounds aswell as how great it is in a mix.


----------



## Deadpool_25

I'm willing to bet some cash that the Invective will soon be in the hands of all those awesome reviewers. They were having production issues so once those are hashed out and the amp is finalized, it's going to get shipped to all those dudes. Bet on it.

Also, I agree that shorter videos are better than very long ones. I'd like to see style-focused videos about 5-10 minutes long each. Each one would have a player who is quite good at that style and who can dial in a nice tone for that style. Show them dialing in the tone and explaining why they're doing what they're doing. Then have them play a few minutes in that style. Ideally, do with a couple of slightly different tonal options.

This way, of you just want to focus on one style, you click that link and ignore the others.

Kinda funny how people bitched about LaRocca's Invective demo but I bet they watched the whole thing anyway. And then they bitch that it didn't show metal. Misha's video showed that the Invective cab do metal (as if "channels 2 and 3 are basically straight out of the 5150 block letter" doesn't make it damn near obvious that it can do metal).


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Sounds like it is in between the OG 5150 and the 5150II. Hmmmm....


----------



## lewis

what interests me massively about the invective is did they play it safe with the gain structure and characteristics? Or will its main rhythm sounds and feel be basically that of a 6505 to the point where any small tone differences between them, could be reached by just adjusting the 6505's eq?

Sometimes Im cynical of companies marketing spiel. Could this just be a 6505(5150) with way better features and a reworked clean channel?. Or will this be its own high gain beast thats entirely different sounding? (really it should be better sounding too)


----------



## narad

lewis said:


> Sometimes Im cynical of companies marketing spiel. Could this just be a 6505(5150) with way better features and a reworked clean channel?.



Yes.



lewis said:


> (really it should be better sounding too)



Nothing sounds better than a 5150. Only different.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

I thought Misha and Peavey said it was a straight-up 5150? Only thing different is the tweaked green and clean channel and the added knick-knacks. Otherwise, I recall them saying the red channel is a stock 5150.


----------



## prlgmnr

Deadpool_25 said:


> The Mark 5:25 demos with Andy Timmons and John Petrucci were instrumental in my decision to purchase those. Andy showed stuff from jazzy, to poppy, to rockin. JP showed how brutal the amp could get. Great variation in styles and tones. Still, even Mesa could do it better by being more focused.



On a similar note, I totally bought a Mark V because of:



Just look how much fun he's having.


----------



## Deadpool_25

Yeah that's a good video. Like seeing folks having fun.


----------



## Deadpool_25

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I thought Misha and Peavey said it was a straight-up 5150? Only thing different is the tweaked green and clean channel and the added knick-knacks. Otherwise, I recall them saying the red channel is a stock 5150.



Mayyyyybe. He said channels 2 and 3 were basically the 5150 but there was an implication that minor tweaks may have been made. If so they're likely very minor.

I'm excited about the clean channel as that's important to me. I'm hoping it's very warm on its own and pedal friendly too. I also like that he wanted the loop to be friendly for running a modeler straight into it. I'm already running an FX8 but at considering an AX8 for ultimate flexibility.


----------



## bulb

Ch2/3 were based off the Block Letter spec, but we tweaked from there in part to make them richer, tighter and have more range in the controls. The clean channel is brand new. It's not just a 5150 with a clean.


----------



## bulb

narad said:


> Yes.
> 
> Nothing sounds better than a 5150. Only different.



Narad, please don't be a know-it-all on a product you have zero involvement with or any actual knowledge about apart from information you think you are at best misrepresenting and regurgitating. If you are already prepared to talk down on an amp you have never played and never tried, i'm sure we can all count on you sticking to your guns when you actually try it.

Confirmation Bias is a bitch, but awareness goes a long way. Keep an open mind, pal.


----------



## narad

bulb said:


> Narad, please don't be a know-it-all on a product you have zero involvement with or any actual knowledge about apart from information you think you are at best misrepresenting and regurgitating. If you are already prepared to talk down on an amp you have never played and never tried, i'm sure we can all count on you sticking to your guns when you actually try it.
> 
> Confirmation Bias is a bitch, but awareness goes a long way. Keep an open mind, pal.



I'm not talking down the amp at all. The world needs a refined 5150. There are people who have ditched every Diezel/Bogner/Engl/Friedman for 5150s. I even like the idea of the amp, its feature set, and what I've heard so far (!!)

But I also listened to the vids where you and some Peavey representative described it as tweaked block letter. Does that lead to "its own high gain beast thats entirely different sounding"? It's subjective, but I think it's safe to say it's not "entirely different sounding".


----------



## bulb

narad said:


> I'm not talking down the amp at all. The world needs a refined 5150. There are people who have ditched every Diezel/Bogner/Engl/Friedman for 5150s. I even like the idea of the amp, its feature set, and what I've heard so far (!!)
> 
> But I also listened to the vids where you and some Peavey representative described it as tweaked block letter. Does that lead to "its own high gain beast thats entirely different sounding"? It's subjective, but I think it's safe to say it's not "entirely different sounding".



I understand what you are saying, however if you want to go down that link of thinking, then everything is a Fender or a Marshall. Let's be honest here, tweaks go a long way, and in some cases make all the difference.


----------



## narad

bulb said:


> I understand what you are saying, however if you want to go down that link of thinking, then everything is a Fender or a Marshall. Let's be honest here, tweaks go a long way, and in some cases make all the difference.



And every Marshall is a Fender ;-)

Of course there are some tweaks that go along way — it’s all a gamut. But you know I’m not referring to a “tweak” as the difference between a Fender and a Fortin, I’m talking on the scale of 5150/5150II/5153. Or a JCM800 and a silver jubilee. And a richer, tighter 5150II is exactly how I might describe my experience with the 5153. So all I’ll say is that if you _don’t_ want people thinking of it as a slight variation of a 5150, and you _don’t_ want them thinking that this is a 5150 that caters more to the prog metal scene, then it’s not matching the pitch in these videos and the information released so far. I think the slew of comments here (by other not-me people) is indicative of that.

And FWIW, it’s actual the close relation to the 5150 that has me following it in the first place.

To me the question I’ll be asking myself when I gauge whether this is “entirely different sounding” is whether, disregarding the clean channel, it makes any sense to own both an invective and a block letter, subject to the constraint where I probably don’t want infinite amps, but maybe 3-4. So if I can't sit at an invective and dial in a really close block letter tone, then please let me know, because that would be (slightly sad) news to me. And if I can, then I think I'm justified in treating the basic tone as being in the same ballpark / not its own entirely different thing to keep harping on Lewis's terms.


----------



## Deadpool_25

Welcome back Misha. Love having your input here. Have you had any time to work on your traditional (non-Fractal) pedal board? Just curious as I'm building a new board for use with the Invective (I also ordered the cab).

Fractal FX8 (maybe AX8 later)
Strymon Timeline
Strymon BigSky
Hamstead Tremolo
Digitech Drop (cuz we can't all get unlimited guitars from Jackson)


----------



## El Caco

narad said:


> So if I can't sit at an invective and dial in a really close block letter tone, then please let me know,



It maybe kinda sorta seemed like he answered that here



bulb said:


> based off the Block Letter spec, but we tweaked from there in part to make them richer, tighter and



but "richer, tighter" confuses me a little

What did you think of Victor's video? In that video it sounds very 5150 to me and IMO I didn't hear the "richer, tighter" from channel 2/3. It came across to me as a 5150 with an F type clean channel combined with good noise gate and a pretty transparent clean boost and what seems to be a usable master volume. From what I have heard so far the boost on the lead is what gives it the extra tightness. I didn't hear any extra richness in 2/3 but the clean channel is without a doubt richer and tighter than anything a 5150 is capable of.

I wouldn't have imagined this amp would be for me but from what I have seen in these 4 videos it kind of looks to be a killer package that can do so much more than I would have thought it could. There is no way I would have thought this would work for someone like me who primarily plays at home but Victor's video seems to indicate it can work well at lower volumes.

I guess for me my main reservations at this time are I'm not sure it can be warm enough for me and I'm not sure it is practical for me primarily playing at home so I'll keep watching vids for now.

But I'm real impressed by what I've seen so far.


----------



## bulb

Deadpool_25 said:


> Welcome back Misha. Love having your input here. Have you had any time to work on your traditional (non-Fractal) pedal board? Just curious as I'm building a new board for use with the Invective (I also ordered the cab).
> 
> Fractal FX8 (maybe AX8 later)
> Strymon Timeline
> Strymon BigSky
> Hamstead Tremolo
> Digitech Drop (cuz we can't all get unlimited guitars from Jackson)



I have a pedalboard at home that I'm always playing around on as my little inspiration station, and that's either entirely into the clean channel of the Invective or more ideally half in front half in the loops. Getting this to be a Periphery rig with our current setup is going to be a bit of an uphill battle just because of how airtight our current setup is, and as much as I will definitely hear a difference in my ears, I have to weigh whether all the extra work it will be for everyone will be worth the notch up in quality against two other guitars, drums and vocals in a live context. With that said, I'm fighting the good fight on that, and I want to eventually get some sort of gig-rig style thing where I have the pedalboard, which is still switched through MIDI by our setup, but that I can override.

For your setup, I would probably put the Strymons in one loop and the FX8 in the other with the other effects in front of the amp, but you can play around with the setup that works best for you.


----------



## bulb

El Caco said:


> It maybe kinda sorta seemed like he answered that here
> 
> 
> 
> but "richer, tighter" confuses me a little
> 
> What did you think of Victor's video? In that video it sounds very 5150 to me and IMO I didn't hear the "richer, tighter" from channel 2/3. It came across to me as a 5150 with an F type clean channel combined with good noise gate and a pretty transparent clean boost and what seems to be a usable master volume. From what I have heard so far the boost on the lead is what gives it the extra tightness. I didn't hear any extra richness in 2/3 but the clean channel is without a doubt richer and tighter than anything a 5150 is capable of.
> 
> I wouldn't have imagined this amp would be for me but from what I have seen in these 4 videos it kind of looks to be a killer package that can do so much more than I would have thought it could. There is no way I would have thought this would work for someone like me who primarily plays at home but Victor's video seems to indicate it can work well at lower volumes.
> 
> I guess for me my main reservations at this time are I'm not sure it can be warm enough for me and I'm not sure it is practical for me primarily playing at home so I'll keep watching vids for now.
> 
> But I'm real impressed by what I've seen so far.



All I can tell you is what I know from the tweaking we did in person, ultimately it's all absolutely meaningless and you should just try it for yourself and see how you like it, and I recommend that you do that if what you hear in the videos is intriguing because as I am sure you know, it's very difficult to represent how an amp sounds in the room with a video.


----------



## Deadpool_25

bulb said:


> For your setup, I would probably put the Strymons in one loop and the FX8 in the other with the other effects in front of the amp, but you can play around with the setup that works best for you.



I'm actually considering running the FX8 in 4CM so I can have effects in front or behind the amp. I'll put the strymons after the FX8, but yeah maybe in the 2nd FX loop


----------



## bulb

Deadpool_25 said:


> I'm actually considering running the FX8 in 4CM so I can have effects in front or behind the amp. I'll put the strymons after the FX8, but yeah maybe in the 2nd FX loop


Ah yeah you can do 4CM, though I think most effects units tend to get kinda noisy in 4CM but I haven't personally tried the FX8 in that config so I don't know if that will be an issue or not.


----------



## Deadpool_25

bulb said:


> Ah yeah you can do 4CM, though I think most effects units tend to get kinda noisy in 4CM but I haven't personally tried the FX8 in that config so I don't know if that will be an issue or not.



It tends to be very quiet in 4CM. I have an EBTech hum eliminator just in case especially since I'm considering a stereo rig with the Mesa TC-50.


----------



## El Caco

I have not found that about effects units and I would be shocked if it was the case with the FX8. The Pod X3 Live had a defective loop which made it unusable in 4CM, it was a known hardware issue that Line6 said they couldn't fix with a firmware update. Since the loop in the Blackstar ID series was an afterthought it was noisy at first but apparently they improved it with updates. I haven't updated mine yet so I don't even have the loop but it is something I'll try at some point because I'm hoping to use 4CM with it. There are certain amps that have loop compatibility issues and others with crap loops. For what it is worth I ran my GSP1101 in 4CM and never had an issue with any gear.


----------



## JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo

I'm hoping to get one and use the onboard boost and gate, then have a G System for the small amount of fx I'd use and amp switching. Then I can have it all hooked up with the G's brain on top of the amp and the board at my feet. It'd be wonderful to have such a clean and easy setup. I really get sick of hooking up my board every day. Sure it's only 4 cables, but most of the time I just wanna flick on the amp and get to it. Plug and play all day, baby.


----------



## Deadpool_25

Well, I don't have any noise issues using 4CM with my FX8 and my TC-50. And that's true whether I use "humbuster" cables as recommended by Fractal or if I just use regular instrument cables. I also don't have any issues using 4CM with the FX8 and my Mark Five:25. I even had them both hooked up in stereo via 7CM and had no noise issues.

We will see in a month or so if it's an issue with the Invective (if so, I'll likely be able to remedy it in a couple of reliable ways). You're right that some amps have notorious FX loop issues, luckily none of mine have so far.


----------



## whosdealin

As Misha said , try the amp when it is available and decide for yourselves .... my favorite amp of all time is the Peavey 5152 , I've been fortunate to own Bogner, Diezel, Soldano, Fryette, ENGL, Friedman, Fortin, etc etc.....Some very great amps in there own right but it amazes me that the high gain tone I like most comes from an amp I can buy on the used market for around $500. 

Point being is its actually a tall feet to improve on the 5150 amps because they sound so great to begin with that sometimes when refining that tone you end up taking the balls away. I have my fingers crossed that this version ends up being great and I think Misha is spot on with all the design features he added. They make the amp way more versatile in a live situation while cutting down on the amount of external pedals and switching loops/controllers that would normally be needed with the original amps.

So best of luck to you Misha, I hope everyone digs the amp and they sell like crazy !


----------



## El Caco

I think the Boost with tone control on each channel is the most interesting part. I'd love to play with one just to see the possibilities because depending on the boost circuit I can see how that feature could potentially make the amp versatile enough to imitate a wide variety of sounds usually found from other types of amps.


----------



## Deadpool_25

Last I checked, Sweetwater was saying mid August. Now they're saying mid September.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

I swear to god if this is another Devin Townsend situation.


----------



## Deadpool_25

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I swear to god if this is another Devin Townsend situation.



I saw DTP last year. Tell me this story.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Deadpool_25 said:


> I saw DTP last year. Tell me this story.


Devin Townsend had a signature guitar with Peavey. Iirc prototypes started as far back as 2007 and was supposed to be released in 2008/2009 but got pushed back all the way to 2011. The guitar released with little fanfare or promotion, Devy quietly dropped Peavey for Framus, and the guitar was discontinued.


----------



## lewis

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Devin Townsend had a signature guitar with Peavey. Iirc prototypes started as far back as 2007 and was supposed to be released in 2008/2009 but got pushed back all the way to 2011. The guitar released with little fanfare or promotion, Devy quietly dropped Peavey for Framus, and the guitar was discontinued.


----------



## budda

OliOliver said:


> I really get sick of hooking up my board every day.



Just leave it all plugged in then?


----------



## JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo

budda said:


> Just leave it all plugged in then?



I used to, but I live in a small space and I once tripped over my cables in the night. Once was enough.


----------



## Deadpool_25

OliOliver said:


> I used to, but I live in a small space and I once tripped over my cables in the night. Once was enough.



You might also consider a small area rug that you put over the cables.


----------



## JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo

Deadpool_25 said:


> You might also consider a small area rug that you put over the cables.



You're not my real dad!


----------



## cmtd

I just got off the phone with guitar center, they told me they are expecting to have them in on August 14th. Hoping that doesn't change, been without an tube amp for a good bit at this point.


----------



## Deadpool_25

cmtd said:


> I just got off the phone with guitar center, they told me they are expecting to have them in on August 14th. Hoping that doesn't change, been without an tube amp for a good bit at this point.



I hope you're right. All I know is if mine isn't here in November when Periphery come to town, I'm totally stealing one of Misha's.


----------



## USMarine75

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Devin Townsend had a signature guitar with Peavey. Iirc prototypes started as far back as 2007 and was supposed to be released in 2008/2009 but got pushed back all the way to 2011. The guitar released with little fanfare or promotion, Devy quietly dropped Peavey for Framus, and the guitar was discontinued.



Around that time the same thing happened with the Peavey Josh Rand Special.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

USMarine75 said:


> Around that time the same thing happened with the Peavey Josh Rand Special.



Whatever happened there anyway? It's like Josh was with Ibanez in 2007, was with Peavey in 2008, then switched to PRS in 2009.


----------



## USMarine75

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Whatever happened there anyway? It's like Josh was with Ibanez in 2007, was with Peavey in 2008, then switched to PRS in 2009.



^ Exactly this... lol.

Luckily I scored one so that's all I care about haha. MF/GC had them available for pre-order and everything. Then they just refunded the money a year later when it was cancelled. Did the same thing with the Amplitube pedalboard that never made it to market. Add the Peavey DT to that list lol.


----------



## Deadpool_25

You bastards are scaring me. GTFO.


----------



## bulb

cmtd said:


> I just got off the phone with guitar center, they told me they are expecting to have them in on August 14th. Hoping that doesn't change, been without an tube amp for a good bit at this point.


They damn well better, I'm supposed to be going to the Rockville guitar center to show the amp on the 12th haha


----------



## USMarine75

Just confirmed with multiple sources this amp doesn't exist


cmtd said:


> I just got off the phone with guitar center, they told me they are expecting to have them in on August 14th. Hoping that doesn't change, been without an tube amp for a good bit at this point.



Nolly took the amp with him...  

(sorry, couldn't resist)


----------



## bulb

USMarine75 said:


> Just confirmed with multiple sources this amp doesn't exist
> 
> 
> Nolly took the amp with him...
> 
> (sorry, couldn't resist)


too soon?


----------



## USMarine75

bulb said:


> too soon?









And here I was gonna try and photoshop Nolly in place of the WV Governor during his and Trump's speech tonight... lol


----------



## Deadpool_25

bulb said:


> They damn well better, I'm supposed to be going to the Rockville guitar center to show the amp on the 12th haha



Whaaaaat?? I'm all the way in Phoenix but am so excited for this amp, I may need to fly out there. Lol


----------



## mookcore

bulb said:


> They damn well better, I'm supposed to be going to the Rockville guitar center to show the amp on the 12th haha


I ordered mine thru that gc . If it's there for the clinic can you sign it?


----------



## bulb

mookcore said:


> I ordered mine thru that gc . If it's there for the clinic can you sign it?


of course!


----------



## sevenfoxes

Misha, a big time congrats to you on your signature amp! 

I've read that the Invective is voiced after the 6505. Just _how _voiced after the 6505 is it? How would you personally describe the comparisons between these two amps , and how does it perform at bedroom levels? I am also curious about the hiss/noise that the 6505 naturally has. Is this amp any quieter (minus the built in gate)? Thanks!


----------



## El Caco

Those questions have probably been answered as good as they will be answered until the amp is in the hands of people.

He spends the first few minutes answering your first question. Start at 1:20


I can't remember where but the bedroom question has been answered, apparently it does bedroom levels well. This next video seems to back that up. Pay attention to the string noise and the clicking of the switches, the amp sounds loud but when you consider those sounds it can't be, it just sounds huge at those low volumes giving the impression that it is very loud. I'm still not convinced it is quiet enough for any and every bedroom but I think I could get away with it.


As for the last question, on channel 2/3 I doubt it. I think the answer to the first question most likely answers that. If anything I'd expect it has the potential to be worse. Not that it matters, the amp will no doubt have a very high quality gate. His gate has always been an important part of his chain and he can use any gate he wants, I doubt he would want an inferior gate fitted to his amp, he wouldn't use it if it wasn't comparable to his current gate. On channel 1 I suspect noise isn't an issue based on what has been said.

This post is just what I suspect based on the videos we have all watched and the comments I have seen here and other places.


----------



## Deadpool_25

El Caco, I think that's probably correct on all points. I know he mentions that it sounds great at bedroom levels and gives a little example in that top video from NAMM you linked. I'm not sure what time in the video, but it's definitely in there. Also, Misha stated he lives in an apartment, and I'm guessing that bottom video is taken in that apartment. Like you, I'm betting he's playing pretty quietly in that demo.


----------



## mookcore

Man Saturday in Rockville can't come soon enough!


----------



## Deadpool_25

mookcore said:


> Man Saturday in Rockville can't come soon enough!



I'm curious if this actually happens and/or if Peavey actually has units available/shipping at that time.


----------



## mookcore

Deadpool_25 said:


> I'm curious if this actually happens and/or if Peavey actually has units available/shipping at that time.


The one he's demoing may be spoken for ...


----------



## Deadpool_25

mookcore said:


> The one he's demoing may be spoken for ...



Haha. Maybe but that doesn't affect me...I'm on the west coast. I certainly hope it goes well and that someone records some good video. I'm a little tired of watching the same three videos over and over on YT.


----------



## mookcore

Deadpool_25 said:


> Haha. Maybe but that doesn't affect me...I'm on the west coast. I certainly hope it goes well and that someone records some good video. I'm a little tired of watching the same three videos over and over on YT.


I know that they've sent some to the stores ahead of time . The ones that are demoing it I believe . But they're shipping the 14th


----------



## bulb

I know they will have one tomorrow and that it will be for sale with the one condition that you can only take it home once the event is done since we need it haha


----------



## Deadpool_25

Couple short videos up on Peavey's FB.


----------



## mookcore

It sound so sick . I'm going to pick it up later tonight! Thanks misha for being really cool and showing me slot of the features


----------



## purpledc

What I am still not clear on is whether its really made in the USA. On the back of the amp it says "designed and engineered In the USA". From what I understand peavey closed its USA amp making facility. Unless this is being made wherever the buddas are being made but usually when peavey makes something in the states it aint leaving the factory without at least one American flag on it and loud and proud "made in usa" on the back. Not that I even care if it was made in china. I just think people should be able to know either way.


----------



## mookcore

It's made in the USA


----------



## Deadpool_25

purpledc said:


> What I am still not clear on is whether its really made in the USA. On the back of the amp it says "designed and engineered In the USA". From what I understand peavey closed its USA amp making facility. Unless this is being made wherever the buddas are being made but usually when peavey makes something in the states it aint leaving the factory without at least one American flag on it and loud and proud "made in usa" on the back. Not that I even care if it was made in china. I just think people should be able to know either way.



It's been confirmed a few times now as made in the USA.


----------



## jerm

What preamp tubes does it come with? The website says it comes with JJ power tubes but doesn't mention which preamp tubes.


----------



## Deadpool_25

jerm said:


> What preamp tubes does it come with? The website says it comes with JJ power tubes but doesn't mention which preamp tubes.



6 12AX7 preamp tubes
4 JJ 6L6GC power tubes


----------



## DudeManBrother

Deadpool_25 said:


> 6 12AX7 preamp tubes
> 6 JJ 6L6GC power tubes


I think 12AX7's are practically a given for a high gain amp, Im sure he's asking the brand of preamp tubes.


----------



## Deadpool_25

Yeah I realized that must be the case after I posted.


----------



## Deadpool_25

Maybe @mookcore can take a peek inside his new one and let us know.

And yeah I'm jealous as fuck right now lol


----------



## lewis

does it have a self biasing feature for using other tube types?
KT88's would be sweet etc.


----------



## purpledc

Yes its been confirmed by people on the internet but has anyone seen a "made in the usa" mark anywhere on the product or even the box? Again I know Misha and reps for sweetwater say its made in the USA. So why does the product NOT say that. It does make a claim on the website to be USA made. I'm just really surprised they didn't put it on the actual amp. Maybe "engineered" is replacing "made" in this case.


----------



## jerm

Yes, I'm asking about brand. Those power amp tubes are great, I had a pair of JJ's in my 6505+. I hope they're not just cheap Chinese tubes.


----------



## technomancer

purpledc said:


> Yes its been confirmed by people on the internet but has anyone seen a "made in the usa" mark anywhere on the product or even the box? Again I know Misha and reps for sweetwater say its made in the USA. So why does the product NOT say that. It does make a claim on the website to be USA made. I'm just really surprised they didn't put it on the actual amp. Maybe "engineered" is replacing "made" in this case.



You're pretty much not going to see "Made In the USA" on anything electronic anymore due to legislation in California. Most electronics components (capacitors, resistors, etc etc) are not made in the US and Cali law no longer allows you to label an item as "Made In the USA" unless a high percentage of components are made in USA as well as the product itself.

That's not to say I'm not curious about where the new Peavey USA gear (guitars and amps) are being manufactured as I'd love to see info on the new facilities.


----------



## jerm

Bottom right.


----------



## BaptizedBurning

Misha was demoing this at my local Guitar Center yesterday, but I got there too late and he was getting in his car when I pulled into the parking lot. Some people were jamming on it in the store afterwards and it sounded amazing. 

Peavey was doing 20% off all their products that day too.


----------



## narad

jerm said:


> Bottom right.



It was already mentioned that Sweetwater is marking it that way. On the amp itself it says "Designed and Engineered"



BaptizedBurning said:


> Peavey was doing 20% off all their products that day too.



So they'll do 20% off the amp if you go to one of these things?


----------



## purpledc

technomancer said:


> You're pretty much not going to see "Made In the USA" on anything electronic anymore due to legislation in California. Most electronics components (capacitors, resistors, etc etc) are not made in the US and Cali law no longer allows you to label an item as "Made In the USA" unless a high percentage of components are made in USA as well as the product itself.
> 
> That's not to say I'm not curious about where the new Peavey USA gear (guitars and amps) are being manufactured as I'd love to see info on the new facilities.



Wow thats a great tid-bit i was unaware of. Thanks I had no idea that was the case. But it sure would explain why the wording would be different. Thanks!


----------



## technomancer

purpledc said:


> Wow thats a great tid-bit i was unaware of. Thanks I had no idea that was the case. But it sure would explain why the wording would be different. Thanks!



Yeah different companies are doing different things to get around it... IIRC Friedman is using "Hand Wired in Los Angeles, CA" these days.


----------



## bulb

I think it's just to avoid legal issues when a lot of the parts are sourced from outside the US, mainly because you can't even get a lot of those parts from the US anymore.


----------



## bulb

narad said:


> So they'll do 20% off the amp if you go to one of these things?


I don't believe so, as it was explained to me, it was just that store and that day. I didn't even know about it until I got there.


----------



## Jobam-Martins

I have been using a peavey 6505 with my band. This one sounds great as well. Looking forward to test it.


----------



## BaptizedBurning

bulb said:


> I don't believe so, as it was explained to me, it was just that store and that day. I didn't even know about it until I got there.



They even applied the 20% off to Peavey products ordered at the store that day too, not just what was on physically on the shelf. So I ended up ordering a Peavey Classic Mini for $100 off.


----------



## Deadpool_25

So have any of you actually taken delivery yet? @mookcore?


----------



## cmtd

Seeing that the amp was out for an in store demo recently, I just called guitar center again for an update, they now tell me it is backordered until September 18th....


----------



## Deadpool_25

cmtd said:


> Seeing that the amp was out for an in store demo recently, I just called guitar center again for an update, they now tell me it is backordered until September 18th....



That implies current orders should be delivered/shipped before that date. Hmmm. Unless you mean that's when they're estimating delivery of stock to fulfill current orders?


----------



## cmtd

Deadpool_25 said:


> That implies current orders should be delivered/shipped before that date. Hmmm. Unless you mean that's when they're estimating delivery of stock to fulfill current orders?



I took it as it will be Sept 18th before we have your pre-order amp to ship to you


----------



## Deadpool_25

Unfortunate. But not surprising.


----------



## Matt08642

cmtd said:


> Seeing that the amp was out for an in store demo recently, I just called guitar center again for an update, they now tell me it is backordered until September 18th....



Oh Noooooo, Misha is getting Peavey'd. I worry this will be just like Devin Townsend's Peavey V. It was released for press for what seemed like forever, then just ended up being vaporware


----------



## narad

Matt08642 said:


> Oh Noooooo, Misha is getting Peavey'd. I worry this will be just like Devin Townsend's Peavey V. It was released for press for what seemed like forever, then just ended up being vaporware



Clearly not the same thing. Devin left to go to Framus -- do you really think Misha's going to go to another amp company after working toward this one for so long? 

And even though I think that's a ridiculous thought, supposing it did happen, the amp has always been pitched something like ~ "designed in collaboration with Misha Mansoor" in all the Peavey press stuff. That's a lot different than Devin's guitar with a big personal logo in the center of it, where there's really no sensible reason to keep producing it if he's not affiliated.


----------



## lewis

I dont know how a hold up can happen?


----------



## bnzboy

As a guy who works in a business process mgmt department, ridiculously minor things can delay the whole process and it is not even funny when legal/compliance folks join the party; things go from green to yellow quite often and even people involved in projects usually do not see that coming. Wish all the best for Peavey to get the delay resolved and hopefully we can see the amp in action soon.


----------



## bulb

bnzboy said:


> As a guy who works in a business process mgmt department, ridiculously minor things can delay the whole process and it is not even funny when legal/compliance folks join the party; things go from green to yellow quite often and even people involved in projects usually do not see that coming. Wish all the best for Peavey to get the delay resolved and hopefully we can see the amp in action soon.



This is so true it hurts.
It sucks, but this is why most new products end up getting delayed, there are just so many things that have to happen to not only launch a product but to scale it up to demand and keep that going, and sometimes the smallest issues cascade into longer delays. I have no idea why things are pushed back, but I do know the amp is coming out, POs have been placed by many retailers and models have been pre-sold for a while now. I have launched enough products now to where these kinds of delays aren't surprising even with the best preparation and intentions. The good news, however, is once things get rolling it's easy to maintain the momentum.


----------



## Panacea224

Here's a clip with Misha using the Invective for educational purposes.


----------



## Beheroth

"how to dial in a modern metal tone : buy the shit wih my name on it"
Misha Mansoor


----------



## cmtd

I get your point, but to be fair shouldn't he be using the stuff he is endorsing? People complain when artists don't really use their sig gear. Good on him for actually using the gear he is endorsing.


----------



## bulb

cmtd said:


> I get your point, but to be fair shouldn't he be using the stuff he is endorsing? People complain when artists don't really use their sig gear. Good on him for actually using the gear he is endorsing.


Hahah you can't win. If I play the gear I designed then I'm a shill, if I don't then people bitch about it. Here's some friendly advice: If you are a gear nerd and ever get the opportunity to design an amp, or pedal or guitar or whatever, take it!!


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

At least you were vague with the video. 

You weren't like "No all amps suck you can't use that shitty Marshall or Maxon or Ibanez get my Peavey MXR and Jackson you plebs".


----------



## bulb

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> At least you were vague with the video.
> 
> You weren't like "No all amps suck you can't use that shitty Marshall or Maxon or Ibanez get my Peavey MXR and Jackson you plebs".


Haha not at all, I like my gear because I designed it to be something that I like, but at the end of the day it's just gear. I hope other people like it too, and I think if you dig the kinds of tones I like it's definitely the easiest way to get that sound, but then again I have a pretty stupid amp/pedal collection.


----------



## Unleash The Fury

That amp sounds really good! But doesnt it have a built in OD, so why are you using the pedal? Or am i wrong about the built in OD?


----------



## bulb

Unleash The Fury said:


> That amp sounds really good! But doesnt it have a built in OD, so why are you using the pedal? Or am i wrong about the built in OD?


It absolutely does! We used the pedal because most amps won't have a built in OD so it's much easier to illustrate the point. A lot of people still seem to have the idea that if you pay X amount for an amp you shouldn't have to boost the front end, and I have been trying to dispel that notion for a while now.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

bulb said:


> A lot of people still seem to have the idea that if you pay X amount for an amp you shouldn't have to boost the front end, and I have been trying to dispel that notion for a while now.



Holy shit I hate this. Like, some amps shine to perfection with an OD or an EQ. Look at Rectos and JCM800s, and whatnot.


----------



## cwhitey2

bulb said:


> It absolutely does! We used the pedal because most amps won't have a built in OD so it's much easier to illustrate the point. A lot of people still seem to have the idea that if you pay X amount for an amp you shouldn't have to boost the front end, and I have been trying to dispel that notion for a while now.


Caugh...Fryette. 






Just kidding, I still use a boost even though it doesn't really need one


----------



## bulb

The fact of the matter is that it's not the fault of the amp, it's the fault of the tuning, gauges and frequencies that are hitting the amp, as well as people's expectation of modern metal tones. These amps are designed to receive guitars generally with 10-46 strings in E Standard and guess what, they sound great for rock tones in those tunings.

But to get the sound that people hear on most of their favorite metal records, especially when the guitars are low tuned and still sharp and aggressive, you just plain have to use a boost so that you can hit the amp with frequencies closer to what it was designed for.


----------



## Deadpool_25

bulb said:


> The fact of the matter is that it's not the fault of the amp, it's the fault of the tuning, gauges and frequencies that are hitting the amp, as well as people's expectation of modern metal tones. These amps are designed to receive guitars generally with 10-46 strings in E Standard and guess what, they sound great for rock tones in those tunings.
> 
> But to get the sound that people hear on most of their favorite metal records, especially when the guitars are low tuned and still sharp and aggressive, you just plain have to use a boost so that you can hit the amp with frequencies closer to what it was designed for.



This doesn't *seem* to explain how a boost tightens up the bottom end and adds some note/string clarity. I mean a down-tuned guitar still sounds down-tuned.

On the video, I'm glad you did it. I have a Precision Drive and am still waiting (impatiently lol) for my Invective. How would you compare the PD to the built in boost on the Invective? Also, what type of boost is on channel 1? Kind of a bluesy, drivey kinda thing or...?


----------



## buriedoutback

buriedoutback, Jan 21, 2017


buriedoutback said:


> .... I suggest having someone mic the cab properly and shoot a semi-pro video. The specs/details on this amp are killer, but we need our ears to agree with our eyes



I watched the sweetwater video this afternoon. Sounds awesome dude! I'm going to keep an eye on this amp moving forward. \m/


----------



## bulb

Deadpool_25 said:


> This doesn't *seem* to explain how a boost tightens up the bottom end and adds some note/string clarity. I mean a down-tuned guitar still sounds down-tuned.
> 
> On the video, I'm glad you did it. I have a Precision Drive and am still waiting (impatiently lol) for my Invective. How would you compare the PD to the built in boost on the Invective? Also, what type of boost is on channel 1? Kind of a bluesy, drivey kinda thing or...?



1. It does by basically acting as a HPF so it's literally cutting low frequencies from the signal. Lower tunings physically occupy lower frequencies, so that's part of the problem, the other part is thicker gauges which are darker by nature, and therefore have more of a focus on the lows/low mids instead of the higher frequencies a lighter string pack would give you. Those two together are even more the problem.

2. The Invective boost is awesome, but it's much less adjustable and much more of a general crowd pleaser, so like the TS9 or Maxon 808 kinda vibe. The Precision Drive allows you to customize exactly where you are cutting the lows and thereby affecting how the mids are affected in turn with the attack switch, so you get so much more flexibility across different guitars/tunings/gauges, and the built in gate combined with the Invective's built in gate gives you a smart combo that's almost impossibly tight without the need for a compressor to "fight" the gates.

3. CH1 boost is kind of it's own thing, very different from the CH2 boost, but if you like pushed cleans it's just the best thing ever. Funny enough I find myself jamming on CH1 with the boost on all the time because it's so satisfying.


----------



## JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo

It sounds sweet as hell in that video. I know we've had a couple vids mic'd up now, but this one takes the cake. Imma have to save up those pennies now


----------



## Deadpool_25

bulb said:


> 1. It does by basically acting as a HPF so it's literally cutting low frequencies from the signal. Lower tunings physically occupy lower frequencies, so that's part of the problem, the other part is thicker gauges which are darker by nature, and therefore have more of a focus on the lows/low mids instead of the higher frequencies a lighter string pack would give you. Those two together are even more the problem.
> 
> 2. The Invective boost is awesome, but it's much less adjustable and much more of a general crowd pleaser, so like the TS9 or Maxon 808 kinda vibe. The Precision Drive allows you to customize exactly where you are cutting the lows and thereby affecting how the mids are affected in turn with the attack switch, so you get so much more flexibility across different guitars/tunings/gauges, and the built in gate combined with the Invective's built in gate gives you a smart combo that's almost impossibly tight without the need for a compressor to "fight" the gates.
> 
> 3. CH1 boost is kind of it's own thing, very different from the CH2 boost, but if you like pushed cleans it's just the best thing ever. Funny enough I find myself jamming on CH1 with the boost on all the time because it's so satisfying.



Thanks for the reply. Man I can't wait for this amp to get here.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Sly, low key gear ad is sly and low key.


----------



## purpledc

bulb said:


> It absolutely does! We used the pedal because most amps won't have a built in OD so it's much easier to illustrate the point. A lot of people still seem to have the idea that if you pay X amount for an amp you shouldn't have to boost the front end, and I have been trying to dispel that notion for a while now.



I run a kemper. I still use my maxon OD808X. And the kemper has a TS type pedal model. For years I resisted using a boost or any type of drive pedal. And for years I could not get the tone I was after. Now I have played some high end amps that don't need a boost. But that doesn't mean they don't sound even better with one. I think a boost is just one of those necessary evils if you want to reach a certain sound.


----------



## FitRocker33

I absolutely agree with the above statement. I had been OD ignorant for years, And for years I constantly bitched about my palm mutes and low end being loose in one way or another. I had thought that tubescreamers were meant more for a "solo" boost of sorts. I didn't realize it was the equivalent of spanxx for amps. Makes everything tighter!


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

FitRocker33 said:


> I absolutely agree with the above statement. I had been OD ignorant for years, And for years I constantly bitched about my palm mutes and low end being loose in one way or another. I had thought that tubescreamers were meant more for a "solo" boost of sorts. I didn't realize it was the equivalent of spanxx for amps. Makes everything tighter!


Make your palm mute tone do the kegel deadlift of doom!


----------



## FitRocker33

Actually I have my amps low end on a regimen of Romanian deadlifts and barbell hip thrusters. You can bounce a quarter off my amp now.


----------



## Deadpool_25

Sweetwater updated their status to "expecting more in a couple of weeks."

I also saw a magazine ad which is a good sign.

Excited.

I'm definitely hoping to have it in hand by the time Periphery and AAL comes to town in November. @bulb You guys doing any clinics/masterclasses? What an amazing event that would be!


----------



## FitRocker33

Deadpool_25 said:


> Sweetwater updated their status to "expecting more in a couple of weeks."
> 
> I also saw a magazine ad which is a good sign.
> 
> Excited.
> 
> I'm definitely hoping to have it in hand by the time Periphery and AAL comes to town in November. @bulb You guys doing any clinics/masterclasses? What an amazing event that would be!



I dunno where you're located but Misha is doing a Q&A and clinic of sorts @ Sam Ash in Clearwater, FL on the 21st. I will be there for sure! Not gonna fall prey to autograph & selfie fanboy syndrome, just gonna take in an evening of a player I've admired since the "Icarus lives" days


----------



## Deadpool_25

FitRocker33 said:


> I dunno where you're located but Misha is doing a Q&A and clinic of sorts @ Sam Ash in Clearwater, FL on the 21st. I will be there for sure! Not gonna fall prey to autograph & selfie fanboy syndrome, just gonna take in an evening of a player I've admired since the "Icarus lives" days



I'm in Phoenix. I know he did some GC events but the closest was in Cali. I'll keep an eye out to see if they have anything upcoming in AZ. Yeah I'm not really an autograph guy. I prefer to just soak in whatever guys happen to be sharing and be able to ask a few questions.


----------



## Tisca

Some Invective 120 sounds but mostly talking.


----------



## crwnedblasphemy

Is it me of did the 2x12 shoot up in price already. I thought it was $650, but now it's $750?


----------



## Deadpool_25

crwnedblasphemy said:


> Is it me of did the 2x12 shoot up in price already. I thought it was $650, but now it's $750?



I think that's where it started? I could be wrong.


----------



## Panacea224

crwnedblasphemy said:


> Is it me of did the 2x12 shoot up in price already. I thought it was $650, but now it's $750?



You're right. I checked my pre-order on musicians friend and it is $650 but the listing for the cab on their site shows $750.


----------



## Deadpool_25

Panacea224 said:


> You're right. I checked my pre-order on musicians friend and it is $650 but the listing for the cab on their site shows $750.



Wow so it did go up. Interesting. I honestly did wonder about the price. If it's really solid pine as opposed to pine plywood, I thought 650 wasn't too bad. I didn't order one though. I had a custom cab made (and might be making another).


----------



## Deadpool_25

Now Sweetwater is saying:

*"Arriving Soon :* We expect more from Peavey in just a few days."


----------



## PBGas

What a neat and great sounding amp. Can't wait to see more clips from it. An amazing feature set!


----------



## Panacea224

Musicians friend just cancelled my order for the head and cabinet. All the email says is it was cancelled, no details. This happen to anyone else? I'm going to give them a call in a bit.


----------



## Deadpool_25

Panacea224 said:


> Musicians friend just cancelled my order for the head and cabinet. All the email says is it was cancelled, no details. This happen to anyone else? I'm going to give them a call in a bit.



Uh oh. That's not a good sign. Keep us posted please.


----------



## mnemonic

We've all been Peavey'd!


----------



## JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo

I'll start polishing my pitchfork


----------



## Panacea224

Just got off the phone with a musicians friend customer support rep and he told me the Federal Trade Commission requires a customer to call in every 30 days to keep a backorder active. They sent me an email, but because I get 1 million BS emails per day the important stuff got buried and I didn't see it. Had to re-order the head and cab with the cab being at the new higher price


----------



## Deadpool_25

Panacea224 said:


> Just got off the phone with a musicians friend customer support rep and he told me the Federal Trade Commission requires a customer to call in every 30 days to keep a backorder active. They sent me an email, but because I get 1 million BS emails per day the important stuff got buried and I didn't see it. Had to re-order the head and cab with the cab being at the new higher price



Booooo!! That sucks. MF should honor your originally ordered price.

On the flip side, I'm definitely relieved there's not some mass order cancellation going on. I want my Invective!


----------



## Panacea224

Deadpool_25 said:


> Booooo!! That sucks. MF should honor your originally ordered price.
> 
> On the flip side, I'm definitely relieved there's not some mass order cancellation going on. I want my Invective!



Yeah, me too. 

I will probably call them back and see if I can work that out.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Give them hell. I can't stand MF anyways, so I hope you get more than the hundred bucks off. Tell them someone else has offered to give you that price difference and you might just go with them if that's the case.


----------



## bulb

Man that blows, I'm sorry you had to deal with that, sounds like red tape BS...


----------



## bulb

OliOliver said:


> I'll start polishing my pitchfork


Oh trust me, I know half of you guys are just sitting by watching this and praying this thing ends up becoming the biggest failure of all time just for that sweet sweet endorphin rush you will get from all the schadenfreude. 

I, on the other hand, would just love for this to be out. The demand was so much higher than anyone at Peavey was prepared for and they are playing catch up on production to meet the orders. This has happened with a few of my products, and it makes for a slow start, but eventually things catch up and even out. Fingers crossed people get their amps soon, and I really do hope they love them, because I think we made something really special!


----------



## mnemonic

I hope it does well, it seems like a cool amp, good feature set, and 5150's are a classic so it's not like it's some big new thing that might flop. It's a classic sound with modern appointments. 

5150's have never really been 'it' for me for whatever reason, but I know they are for many people.


----------



## JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo

bulb said:


> Oh trust me, I know half of you guys are just sitting by watching this and praying this thing ends up becoming the biggest failure of all time just for that sweet sweet endorphin rush you will get from all the schadenfreude.
> 
> I, on the other hand, would just love for this to be out. The demand was so much higher than anyone at Peavey was prepared for and they are playing catch up on production to meet the orders. This has happened with a few of my products, and it makes for a slow start, but eventually things catch up and even out. Fingers crossed people get their amps soon, and I really do hope they love them, because I think we made something really special!



Was only joking, dude. I've been very positive toward the amp since I heard about it, my contributions to this thread so far make that evident.


----------



## bulb

OliOliver said:


> Was only joking, dude. I've been very positive toward the amp since I heard about it, my contributions to this thread so far make that evident.


Haha well in that case, while the sentiment is genuine, the message is not directed at you and let's just chalk it up to Poe's law at work!


----------



## Shoeless_jose

Definitely stoked to see this thing hit the market, not sure if it something that I would grab, but it seems super cool and it just awesome to have something that seems so deliberately designed.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

bulb said:


> Haha well in that case, while the sentiment is genuine, the message is not directed at you and let's just chalk it up to Poe's law at work!


That exchange was a bit comical.


----------



## JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo

bulb said:


> Haha well in that case, while the sentiment is genuine, the message is not directed at you and let's just chalk it up to Poe's law at work!



Just another day on the internets. Just wait until I start comparing you to Hitler.


----------



## purpledc

bulb said:


> Oh trust me, I know half of you guys are just sitting by watching this and praying this thing ends up becoming the biggest failure of all time just for that sweet sweet endorphin rush you will get from all the schadenfreude.
> 
> I, on the other hand, would just love for this to be out. The demand was so much higher than anyone at Peavey was prepared for and they are playing catch up on production to meet the orders. This has happened with a few of my products, and it makes for a slow start, but eventually things catch up and even out. Fingers crossed people get their amps soon, and I really do hope they love them, because I think we made something really special!




I honestly dont think anyone wants to see this endeavor fail. Hell of all your past and current endorsements this seems to be the thing that appeals to the most people. I just think it has sorta become the norm these days that really promising gear implodes before its even released or there is such a shit show attached to it everyone is over it by te time they get their shit together. I honestly think many are excited for this release. Either way i hope you dont feel some of the tongue in cheek humor is a sign that people really want this to fail. I just think with so many failed product launches that people would rather be prepared for the worst rather than expecting the best.


----------



## Deadpool_25

purpledc said:


> I honestly dont think anyone wants to see this endeavor fail. Hell of all your past and current endorsements this seems to be the thing that appeals to the most people. I just think it has sorta become the norm these days that really promising gear implodes before its even released or there is such a shit show attached to it everyone is over it by te time they get their shit together. I honestly think many are excited for this release. Either way i hope you dont feel some of the tongue in cheek humor is a sign that people really want this to fail. I just think with so many failed product launches that people would rather be prepared for the worst rather than expecting the best.



I'm sure plenty of people want to see it succeed. I'm sure there are also quite a few who actually hope it fails if only so they can say, "I told you so." So they can say that an amp that is "just a 5150 with decent cleans for three to four times the price of a used one," was always destined for failure. But of course those of us who are looking forward to it see it as much more than that.

You know how it goes. Haters gonna hate. Trolls gonna troll. Lol

But hey...maybe I'm just a cynic.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Also a lot of people seem like they expect it to fail, given Peavey's track record with endorsements and sig gear in the passed 10 - 15 years.


----------



## Shoeless_jose

I think it will do great, as shown by the 5150 itself, the amps features are what sell it more than any endorsement. Clearly the massive high gain tone and being rugged as fuck are what made the 5150 the legendary amp it is, Eddie's name on it was not what built the legacy.


----------



## whosdealin

Dineley said:


> I think it will do great, as shown by the 5150 itself, the amps features are what sell it more than any endorsement. Clearly the massive high gain tone and being rugged as fuck are what made the 5150 the legendary amp it is, Eddie's name on it was not what built the legacy.



I agree! IMO The 5150 amps have been THE metal amp to compare everything else to. Not because Eddies name is on it but because they sound killer. We can thank Eddie for having great ears, I'm sure he helped in voicing the amp.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

whosdealin said:


> I agree! IMO The 5150 amps have been THE metal amp to compare everything else to. Not because Eddies name is on it but because they sound killer. We can thank Eddie for having great ears, I'm sure he helped in voicing the amp.


From what I understand, he told James what he wanted, and James made component changes until he got what he wanted. The lead channel on the 5150 is thicker than the lead on the 5150II though, for anyone that doesn't know the difference. Heck, I didn't know until a few weeks ago.


----------



## purpledc

Dineley said:


> I think it will do great, as shown by the 5150 itself, the amps features are what sell it more than any endorsement. Clearly the massive high gain tone and being rugged as fuck are what made the 5150 the legendary amp it is, Eddie's name on it was not what built the legacy.


Yeah, from what I remember they became popular when us metal heads could pick them up on the cheap and they had more gain than any other head on the planet at the time. I remember when I was selling them in sam ash and no one really took them seriously. Everyone still was about the marshall TSL and DSL.


----------



## Shoeless_jose

purpledc said:


> Yeah, from what I remember they became popular when us metal heads could pick them up on the cheap and they had more gain than any other head on the planet at the time. I remember when I was selling them in sam ash and no one really took them seriously. Everyone still was about the Marshall TSL and DSL.



Too funny, by the time I really got into music everyone was shitting all over the TSL/DSL there was a big fan club of people with Dual Reverb JCM 900s that did tube swaps and used some pretty intensive graphic EQs, but yeah those JCM 2000s eeeek. I'm sure Marshall would love to forget those haha.


----------



## whosdealin

Spaced Out Ace said:


> From what I understand, he told James what he wanted, and James made component changes until he got what he wanted. The lead channel on the 5150 is thicker than the lead on the 5150II though, for anyone that doesn't know the difference. Heck, I didn't know until a few weeks ago.



Thats true the 5150 has more bass and low mids compared to the 5152. I like both but prefer the 5152 since the bass is tighter and the voicing is smoother. The original 5150 has more of an angry grind to it which is cool too. A mixture of the best qualities of both would be awesome , maybe the Invective is it !


----------



## Panacea224

Everyday musicians friend moves my expected ship date out another day. Now at 9/26 expected ship date. Anyone else seeing the same thing? Guitar Centers site still shows 9/18.


----------



## purpledc

Dineley said:


> Too funny, by the time I really got into music everyone was shitting all over the TSL/DSL there was a big fan club of people with Dual Reverb JCM 900s that did tube swaps and used some pretty intensive graphic EQs, but yeah those JCM 2000s eeeek. I'm sure Marshall would love to forget those haha.


which is odd because they reissued the DSL. I had a DSL and TSL. They were my first tube amps. Cant say they were anything special. But they beat the peavey wiggy that's for sure.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

purpledc said:


> which is odd because they reissued the DSL. I had a DSL and TSL. They were my first tube amps. Cant say they were anything special. But they beat the peavey wiggy that's for sure.



The DSL was actually pretty good. One of Marshalls' best selling amps, which is why they did the reissue.
The TSL was soooooooo bad. One of the worst tube amps I've played. Sounds like they took the Marshall 8100 and took out all the aggression.


----------



## TheRileyOBrien

DSL are great amps. I had one in the early 2000's and it sounded great. Not really a direct competitor to the 5150 range though.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

TheRileyOBrien said:


> DSL are great amps. I had one in the early 2000's and it sounded great. Not really a direct competitor to the 5150 range though.



Definitely more versatile than a 5150, though. a DSL can get fairly brutal, especially with a boost.


----------



## op1e

I was told by a buddy that had one that the JCM 2000 DSL is the one to have. His was loaded with Gold Lion KT77's and was pretty nasty. They were playing drop G on Les Pauls and had a nice grind to it and good clarity.


----------



## Lethalharmonic

I just called Sweetwater and spoke with my sales rep!
I had mine pre-ordered days after NAMM early this year!

They have tracking information from Peavey for trucks containing the Heads and more cabs
what appears like enough to fill most of the backorders! Coming in by the end of the month!

I noticed on one of the recently posted Sweetwater demos on the back of the head written in black marker was \\V3// I wonder if possibly there were issues with a faulty tube socket in that position or this was simply Version 3 ?

 4:35 is the exact time!


----------



## cmtd

Panacea224 said:


> Everyday musicians friend moves my expected ship date out another day. Now at 9/26 expected ship date. Anyone else seeing the same thing? Guitar Centers site still shows 9/18.



I spoke to guitar center Thursday, I was told they expect to get "a status update" from Peavey on 9/18. When I asked for clarification, the rep made it sound like 9/18 would not be the day they were receiving the amps.



Lethalharmonic said:


> I just called Sweetwater and spoke with my sales rep!
> I had mine pre-ordered days after NAMM early this year!
> 
> They have tracking information from Peavey for trucks containing the Heads and more cabs
> what appears like enough to fill most of the backorders! Coming in by the end of the month!



This is encouraging, hoping it is the same for "other retailers".


----------



## Deadpool_25

Sweetwater's showing the price of the head as $1899. Wasn't it $1799? Maybe it went up like the cab did?


----------



## narad

Since we're pretty close to xmas, how are the Sweetwater xmas deals? Worth waiting around for a couple hundred off of this?


----------



## cmtd

Deadpool_25 said:


> Sweetwater's showing the price of the head as $1899. Wasn't it $1799? Maybe it went up like the cab did?



My preorder was $1899 from Guitar center


----------



## bulb

Deadpool_25 said:


> Sweetwater's showing the price of the head as $1899. Wasn't it $1799? Maybe it went up like the cab did?


Nah the price on the head was always 1899, in fact if you watch the NAMM video I'm pretty sure I mention the price there as well!


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Cab definitely went up in price. $750 from $650



Drezik27 said:


> Yes they are, Sweetwater has them listed at $650



Amp has always been $1899. 



kevdes93 said:


> Looks like these are gonna street at 1899$


----------



## Deadpool_25

Ok cool. Guess I just had 1800 on the brain. No worries at all.

@bulb You guys doing a meet and greet or clinic on the tour (Tempe, AZ) with AAL? If so, would you autograph my Invective? (Assuming it's here by then?)


----------



## feraledge

narad said:


> Since we're pretty close to xmas, how are the Sweetwater xmas deals? Worth waiting around for a couple hundred off of this?


Pretty notoriously good. I'm not sure this will be marked down, but they'll match competitor coupons and markdowns as long as they're an authorized dealer. Usually if you call and say you have a 15% off coupon for GC (very common) I've had that price matched without question most of the time.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

feraledge said:


> Pretty notoriously good. I'm not sure this will be marked down, but they'll match competitor coupons and markdowns as long as they're an authorized dealer. Usually if you call and say you have a 15% off coupon for GC (very common) I've had that price matched without question most of the time.


This.


----------



## Black_Sheep

Anyone know about the availability in Europe? haven't seen any info on this anywhere


----------



## NickVicious24

Black_Sheep said:


> Anyone know about the availability in Europe? haven't seen any info on this anywhere



Have seen it pop up on a local music gear webshop. Price seems a bit high compared to the US price if i'm honest though, also says it will be available in about 14 weeks.


----------



## lewis

@bulb dude honest question as Im curious. Tonally, can the Axe FX and the kemper (tweaking a 5150 profile) get close to the tonal sound of this amp?
Is it just the amps amazing features which sets it apart rather than any differences in sound?

The demo video tonally is what interested me as for my application I dont need its features. Just curious if I could get close to, or exact, to its core tone by just tweaking other amp sounds within modellers/digital.

Thanks man


----------



## narad

Drastically different sound? What are you smoking?


----------



## lewis

narad said:


> Drastically different sound? What are you smoking?


you have misunderstood my comment.
I mean i.e is it identical to the sound of say a 5150 and its just the features that separate it.
I was not saying I think it has a drastically different sound, if that makes sense.


----------



## lewis

i editted my post to avoid confusion


----------



## narad

Does the Axe-FX or Kemper get close enough to the 5150 for you? There's no reason to think that's not also going to be the answer to your question.


----------



## Deadpool_25

lewis said:


> you have misunderstood my comment.
> I mean i.e is it identical to the sound of say a 5150 and its just the features that separate it.
> I was not saying I think it has a drastically different sound, if that makes sense.



I think for this or any other amp in the Axe FX it depends on the context. Are you talking about playing in front of the amp/cab in an unmic'd situation such as at home or a small club with no PA? Or are you talking about recording, or live when playing through a PA? 

The Axe FX nails amp tones if you're talking about a recorded or through-PA situation. Even Misha said they have recorded and played live using the AFX into an amp's power section. The number of artists making incredible sounding music with the AFX (and Kemper) should make the answer clear for that context. 

However the answer is still debatable when talking about an at-home type situation where you're comparing playing through an amp/cab vs listening to a model/profile. I've tried a couple of configurations (FRFR, SS amp into Mesa cabs) and not been quite as satisfied as through an amp. I haven't tried the Axe through a tube amp power section and I suspect that would be the closest.


----------



## Petar Bogdanov

NickVicious24 said:


> Have seen it pop up on a local music gear webshop. Price seems a bit high compared to the US price if i'm honest though, also says it will be available in about 14 weeks.



It's fairly standard, swap dollars for euros and add 20% VAT. Euro prices are always like this.


----------



## Andromalia

Price is actually decent compared to the margins some other brands take in Europe, as we've become the "milkable" market since the USA are plunging down. Same reason US bands tour Europe non stop.


----------



## whosdealin

I was able to get real close with the Kemper but as someone else mentioned above what you are using to amplify the tone will make it sound different unless you are using the poweramp of the 5150 head. That is part of the sum . The Kemper and other modelers get close to the tone of the preamp but they can't do what the power amp does.


----------



## bulb

As far as the Euro price unfortunately that is one of the downsides of having a US made amp, that's basically the cost of the amp/margin plus shipping, duties and taxes. 

As far as the Axefx thing goes, I think I have said this before but I like the Axefx because it does sort of "hyper real" versions of the amps, where they have the character of the amp in question but they are tighter. I actually think the Helix does a good job at realistically emulating a tube amp meaning it showcases the amps rawness, though that's not always desirable.

I consider the Invective to be somewhere in the middle of those, it has the rawness of a real tube amp but is also refined in its design and features to where it has an almost hyper real quality to it just by nature. 

Also I haven't messed with the Kemper honestly but I have heard they are great. With that said, when designing the amp I learned just how much of the sound, feel and response of the amp is affected by the power amp and I was shocked. I assumed maybe it only mattered at louder volumes, but it's almost as important as the preamp itself, we spent quite a bit of time on the poweramp aspect alone!


----------



## Drezik27

Since I haven't seen anyone post about the cab...

After about 2 months of breaking it in, I am thoroughly impressed/very pleased. I've run an Axe Fx, Kemper, and a 5150 through it and every rig has sounded fantastic. Cab looks great, sounds great, couldn't ask for anything else.

Personally, I consider this a serious upgrade over my old Marshall cab.


----------



## Deadpool_25

Drezik27 said:


> Since I haven't seen anyone post about the cab...
> 
> After about 2 months of breaking it in, I am thoroughly impressed/very pleased. I've run an Axe Fx, Kemper, and a 5150 through it and every rig has sounded fantastic. Cab looks great, sounds great, couldn't ask for anything else.
> 
> Personally, I consider this a serious upgrade over my old Marshall cab.



I was wondering about this. I'd thought some cabs were supposed to have already been delivered, but then after not hearing any reports I thought maybe that was false. Good to hear. I actually had a custom vertical 2x12 cab built to fit the Invective. It's finger jointed pine ply and has a V30/Creamback combination. Sounds great. I will probably build another one, this time out of solid pine instead of pine plywood.


----------



## lewis

bulb said:


> As far as the Euro price unfortunately that is one of the downsides of having a US made amp, that's basically the cost of the amp/margin plus shipping, duties and taxes.
> 
> As far as the Axefx thing goes, I think I have said this before but I like the Axefx because it does sort of "hyper real" versions of the amps, where they have the character of the amp in question but they are tighter. I actually think the Helix does a good job at realistically emulating a tube amp meaning it showcases the amps rawness, though that's not always desirable.
> 
> I consider the Invective to be somewhere in the middle of those, it has the rawness of a real tube amp but is also refined in its design and features to where it has an almost hyper real quality to it just by nature.
> 
> Also I haven't messed with the Kemper honestly but I have heard they are great. With that said, when designing the amp I learned just how much of the sound, feel and response of the amp is affected by the power amp and I was shocked. I assumed maybe it only mattered at louder volumes, but it's almost as important as the preamp itself, we spent quite a bit of time on the poweramp aspect alone!


Thanks for the reply dude.

Appreciate it. Very good way to explain it too as I completely understood that haha.


----------



## Deadpool_25

Called Sweetwater to check. They said they're due in tomorrow but he didn't see any tracking info to confirm. Hmmmm. I'd like to be cautiously optimistic but I think I'd better stick with hopefully skeptical.


----------



## PrestoDone

Just talked my sales engineer ben... told me 6 shipments of the invective are on tye way due tomorrow. 



Deadpool_25 said:


> Called Sweetwater to check. They said they're due in tomorrow but he didn't see any tracking info to confirm. Hmmmm. I'd like to be cautiously optimistic but I think I'd better stick with hopefully skeptical.


----------



## PrestoDone

Update : got another call in to sweetwater since it looks like guitar center is not going to get the invective.120 till oct 10.(i called gc too ) Sweetwater should only get about 6 amps in tomorrow. lets see what happens. thankfully i am #5 on the list.


----------



## Deadpool_25

Oh wow. Hmmmm. Wonder where I am on the list....


----------



## Deadpool_25

So I just called and Sean said I'm number.....7! Ack!! That's the bad news.

The good news is that he says it's "6 shipments" and they're actually expecting about 20 units. So who knows. Hopefully I'll make the first batch.


----------



## cmtd

PrestoDone said:


> Update : got another call in to sweetwater since it looks like guitar center is not going to get the invective.120 till oct 10.(i called gc too ) Sweetwater should only get about 6 amps in tomorrow. lets see what happens. thankfully i am #5 on the list.



The guy at guitar center just told me they are expecting delivery on the 29th. Their website says available on the 18th, which was yesterday. Seems like every time there is a new date for availability posted it gets pushed back, this has happened 3-4 times now. I understand the delays, etc with launching a new product. I just wish there was a way to get a definitive answer on what is actually happening. Why is sweetwater saying they are on the way? Why is GC telling me the 29th, telling you Oct 10th, and their website saying yesterday? That is the frustrating aspect.


----------



## NickVicious24

Nice playthrough/lesson of "The Way The News Goes", with the invective and HT6


----------



## Unleash The Fury

Not to derail the thread but did i see him do some of the triplets starting with an upstroke? (I always wonder how many people do triplet chugging starting each triplet with a downstroke. Or if some people alternate them)


----------



## Deadpool_25

NickVicious24 said:


> Nice playthrough/lesson of "The Way The News Goes", with the invective and HT6




This video is awesome and makes me even more excited for the Invective. I'm also a huge fan of bands like Plini, Scale the Summit, David Maxim Micic, The Contortionist, etc. and this seems to be nailing those types of tones.

A couple of notes on the video:

1. The intro riff is using the clean channel with the boost on. I don't know what boost the clean channel's is based on (if any) but I like it. A lot. I see why Misha does as well. If I'd just listened and guessed, I'd have guessed the crunch channel with low gain.

2. @bulb, looks like you're in preset mode on the footswitch? Do you have a couple of different Timeline settings kicking in via MIDI? What was the setup on the Timeline?

3. I noticed you used the lead channel for the "Happy, heavy" riff  during the lesson section, but the crunch channel when playing in the mix. Can you discuss that briefly?

Dude, I'm pretty sure you have a serious winner with this amp. I can not F***ing wait to get it.


----------



## Shoeless_jose

Clean with boost sounded cool. Almsot like Bill Kellihers deacription of clean in his butterslax demo. 

Would love to see how it cleans up more pristine. Either way sounds killer.

Misha I must ask now that you have this amp that clearly meets all your needs do you feel less drawn to the axe fx? Or do the other conveniences such as protools switching and direct to front of house make it something you cant abandon even with an amp youre crazy about?


----------



## Deadpool_25

Dineley said:


> Would love to see how it cleans up more pristine. Either way sounds killer.



Do you mean how the clean sounds without the boost, or how it cleans up using the guitar's volume knob with the boost on?


----------



## Deadpool_25

Oops, another question. Was this using full or half power mode?


----------



## bnzboy

cmtd said:


> The guy at guitar center just told me they are expecting delivery on the 29th. Their website says available on the 18th, which was yesterday. Seems like every time there is a new date for availability posted it gets pushed back, this has happened 3-4 times now. I understand the delays, etc with launching a new product. I just wish there was a way to get a definitive answer on what is actually happening. Why is sweetwater saying they are on the way? Why is GC telling me the 29th, telling you Oct 10th, and their website saying yesterday? That is the frustrating aspect.



I understand the frustration man. I went through a similar situation with my PRS Holcomb order. 2 months delay felt like 2 years! 

My assumption: the amp is already good to go (manufactured and packaged) but at some point someone is holding back the entire chain. Delivery guys? Lawyers? Mrs. Peavey? Who knows? When this happens, unfortunately in many businesses, no one party can be 100% responsible for the hold up and it is quite tricky to find out. You need to understand that some stores might be frustrated just as much as you are; they are here to sell, not to hold things up for valued customers and get a bad reputation. 

Even if they identified the issue, let's say there was an issue at the storage/warehouse, communicating that to customers may or may not be worth it or necessary from the business point of view. Yes, this may potentially cause some cancelled pre-order but we know this whole conversation..

...will be over once the amp is delivered 

Say what you want to say about being transparent but I am sure Peavey is trying to resolve this frustration asap.


----------



## Deadpool_25

A sales rep at Sweetwater said that tracking showed that some had been delivered, but they hadn't been accepted into stock yet (meaning they just need to be officially logged into stock before going out to customers). The implication was that some, but not all of the tracking numbers showed delivered to them. He wouldn't say exactly how many had come in, "because it would be all over the forums." Lol. I assume they're watching this thread. They know me too well.  Fingers crossed for shipping soon!


----------



## Deadpool_25

bnzboy said:


> I understand the frustration man. I went through a similar situation with my PRS Holcomb order. 2 months delay felt like 2 years!
> 
> My assumption: the amp is already good to go (manufactured and packaged) but at some point someone is holding back the entire chain. Delivery guys? Lawyers? Mrs. Peavey? Who knows? When this happens, unfortunately in many businesses, no one party can be 100% responsible for the hold up and it is quite tricky to find out. You need to understand that some stores might be frustrated just as much as you are; they are here to sell, not to hold things up for valued customers and get a bad reputation.
> 
> Even if they identified the issue, let's say there was an issue at the storage/warehouse, communicating that to customers may or may not be worth it or necessary from the business point of view. Yes, this may potentially cause some cancelled pre-order but we know this whole conversation..
> 
> ...will be over once the amp is delivered
> 
> Say what you want to say about being transparent but I am sure Peavey is trying to resolve this frustration asap.




Looks like the amps have been sent from Peavey and are actually starting to arrive at distributors.


----------



## JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo

NickVicious24 said:


> Nice playthrough/lesson of "The Way The News Goes", with the invective and HT6




Sweet Jesus it sounds so goooood


----------



## Shoeless_jose

Deadpool_25 said:


> Do you mean how the clean sounds without the boost, or how it cleans up using the guitar's volume knob with the boost on?


Just the cleanest possible. Without volume knob. Anything gets clean with volume knob


----------



## Deadpool_25

Dineley said:


> Just the cleanest possible. Without volume knob. Anything gets clean with volume knob



I believe a few of the Invective videos demo the clean channel a bit. You might look through this playlist:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLb8B4z1q8-p42qVDFVGF67X0B2fAQ6Ewq


----------



## PrestoDone

anyone have any updates on the eta to sweetwater or guitar center??


----------



## Slam5150

I talked to Sweetwater a few days ago and they said they’re expecting them very soon. Talked with Chris Kelly at Peavey too and he said Sweetwater is usually the first to get new products.


----------



## Deadpool_25

PrestoDone said:


> anyone have any updates on the eta to sweetwater or guitar center??





Slam5150 said:


> I talked to Sweetwater a few days ago and they said they’re expecting them very soon. Talked with Chris Kelly at Peavey too and he said Sweetwater is usually the first to get new products.



Some have already arrived at Sweetwater. They’re probably inspecting them before accepting them into stock and shipping them out.


----------



## prlgmnr

Deadpool_25 said:


> Some have already arrived at Sweetwater. They’re probably inspecting them before accepting them into stock and shipping them out.


They'll no doubt be doing the same painstaking inspection they do to their new Ibanez guitars.

"This one has rubber ducks instead of 6L6s"

"That's great, tick it off and send it out"


----------



## PrestoDone

got some bad news folks...ben my sales engineer from sweetwater just called me to update me. he said the eta has been moved till early november....bummer


----------



## Ironbird666

Mine hasn't emailed me back or called yet. I'm sure it's because he doesn't want to tell me I'll be paying for this amp for two more months without having it in my possession. Lol. Thanks for the update however crappy it may be man.


----------



## Slam5150

Are you fucking kidding me?! Another month out....again?!?


----------



## Deadpool_25

PrestoDone said:


> got some bad news folks...ben my sales engineer from sweetwater just called me to update me. he said the eta has been moved till early november....bummer



Interesting. They said they had at least some of them arrive. Definitely sucks if this is the case.


----------



## mnemonic

Peavey'd again!


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

I'd just cancel orders and go for something else if it keeps going from August, to September, and now November... really? It has some interesting features and shit, but it's still just a 5150 with bells and whistles. Buy a 5150. Then buy the bells and whistles. Problem solved.


----------



## Matt08642

https://imgur.com/X9V4e5G


----------



## Unleash The Fury

Spaced Out Ace said:


> I'd just cancel orders and go for something else if it keeps going from August, to September, and now November... really? It has some interesting features and shit, but it's still just a 5150 with bells and whistles. Buy a 5150. Then buy the bells and whistles. Problem solved.



For real. Get your money back. Then just buy it when it actually comes. You can take that money and spend it tomorow, then possibly save up the same amount of money again by the time the amp actually comes out


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Unleash The Fury said:


> For real. Get your money back. Then just buy it when it actually comes. You can take that money and spend it tomorow, then possibly save up the same amount of money again by the time the amp actually comes out


This.


----------



## Deadpool_25

I haven’t spent a dime as of yet so....


----------



## Ironbird666

Eh, I'm not all that worried about it. I owned a 5150 for well over 20 years so I've been there done that with that family of amps. If it turns out the Invective falls through in a few months I'll get my money back and put it towards another amp. I have an amp I'm pretty happy with for now so I'm ok with waiting for a few months. If this amp turns out to be as good as advertised it will be nearly dream amp levels of awesome for me. A midi switchable 5150? Yes please, I'll take that for sure. I'm cool with waiting a little longer if I have to.


----------



## bulb

Ironbird666 said:


> Eh, I'm not all that worried about it. I owned a 5150 for well over 20 years so I've been there done that with that family of amps. If it turns out the Invective falls through in a few months I'll get my money back and put it towards another amp. I have an amp I'm pretty happy with for now so I'm ok with waiting for a few months. If this amp turns out to be as good as advertised it will be nearly dream amp levels of awesome for me. A midi switchable 5150? Yes please, I'll take that for sure. I'm cool with waiting a little longer if I have to.



Apologies for the wait dude, and thank you for your patience. I really do hope you love the amp, I know the easiest way to describe it is a 5150 with a clean channel and MIDI, but when you get it I think you will see that description kinda sells it a bit short haha!


----------



## Deadpool_25

Ironbird666 said:


> Eh, I'm not all that worried about it. I owned a 5150 for well over 20 years so I've been there done that with that family of amps. If it turns out the Invective falls through in a few months I'll get my money back and put it towards another amp. I have an amp I'm pretty happy with for now so I'm ok with waiting for a few months. If this amp turns out to be as good as advertised it will be nearly dream amp levels of awesome for me. A midi switchable 5150? Yes please, I'll take that for sure. I'm cool with waiting a little longer if I have to.





bulb said:


> Apologies for the wait dude, and thank you for your patience. I really do hope you love the amp, I know the easiest way to describe it is a 5150 with a clean channel and MIDI, but when you get it I think you will see that description kinda sells it a bit short haha!



Exactly. This is why I have it preordered and am keeping it that way. 

As for the guys above who say "get your money back," It's going on my Sweetwater card so it hasn't been charged yet anyway. And even if it had, I'd still wait. The delays are a bit frustrating, but it's not like it's keeping me from anything so it's just a minor annoyance. Besides, it's given me an opportunity to sell off a few items I was procrastinating on dumping so that cash is just chilling and waiting to go towards an Invective.


----------



## Shoeless_jose

At this rate we will at least get some more NAMM videos to decide if we want to preorder it!


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Dineley said:


> At this rate we will at least get some more NAMM videos to decide if we want to preorder it!


"Summer NAMM 2018 at the Peavey booth, care to tell us about the Invective?"


----------



## Tisca

I'm sure this has been discussed already but too many pages; if it's built in the USA then why does it say only designed and engineered in the USA on it? We all know what that means.


----------



## Shoeless_jose

Tisca said:


> I'm sure this has been discussed already but too many pages; if it's built in the USA then why does it say only designed and engineered in the USA on it? We all know what that means.



because California has different laws about branding products made in the USA, and the amp has transistors and capacitors and other electronic parts that are no longer manufactured in the USA. So to meet legal requirements they must change the wording. Stuff like LED bulbs and knobs and junk like that even if all the work is done in USA.


----------



## bulb

Dineley said:


> because California has different laws about branding products made in the USA, and the amp has transistors and capacitors and other electronic parts that are no longer manufactured in the USA. So to meet legal requirements they must change the wording. Stuff like LED bulbs and knobs and junk like that even if all the work is done in USA.



This exactly. There are a lot of amp parts that just aren't made in the US anymore, so if you want to keep everything above board you have to be careful about your wording. However, aside from sourcing the individual pieces, these amps are indeed made in Meridian, MS. 

This is actually one of the reasons why the amp ends up being more expensive in non US territories, as shipping and customs come into play in the overhead cost.


----------



## Tisca

Dineley said:


> because California has different laws about branding products made in the USA, and the amp has transistors and capacitors and other electronic parts that are no longer manufactured in the USA. So to meet legal requirements they must change the wording. Stuff like LED bulbs and knobs and junk like that even if all the work is done in USA.



Makes sense, thx. Are any integral parts of it made in the US, like transformers.. anything? If US made only means more expensive labor then why not have them assembled in China and transfer the saving to us.


----------



## Ironbird666

bulb said:


> Apologies for the wait dude, and thank you for your patience. I really do hope you love the amp, I know the easiest way to describe it is a 5150 with a clean channel and MIDI, but when you get it I think you will see that description kinda sells it a bit short haha!



For sure man! I know I'm selling it a bit short, I've already sat around and thought about the possibilities with the just the clean channel (boost off/on) alone. I use a MIDI switcher/looper with my pedals so I'm pretty damn stoked about what I'll be able to do with this amp! I play in a black/death metal band and we go from full out heavy to more ambient moments so I truly believe this amp will deliver everything I need PLUS more. I'll gladly wait a little longer.


----------



## lewis

i personally would have cancelled the pre order and got my money back. BUT thats just how I am as a person. I hate waiting etc. That isnt a dig on the product. Im sure its great. I would just cancel and buy it when it finally drops If I still wanted it.


----------



## GoldDragon

bulb said:


> This exactly. There are a lot of amp parts that just aren't made in the US anymore, so if you want to keep everything above board you have to be careful about your wording. However, aside from sourcing the individual pieces, these amps are indeed made in Meridian, MS.
> 
> This is actually one of the reasons why the amp ends up being more expensive in non US territories, as shipping and customs come into play in the overhead cost.



That's good news, I wouldn't pay 1600 for a Chinese amp. I was really worried it was Chinese because it said "Designed and Engineered in USA".

OTH, if they are using Chinese parts, what is the difference between a Chinese amp and one built in MS? To that, I don't have the answer.


----------



## GoldDragon

I've listened to the demos, sounds great clean, lots of gain obviously, but can it get a saturated clean on the edge of breakup, depending on how hard you play? Or can it get a mild gain that cleans up when you play soft?

I was surprised the Peavey Valve King couldn't do that well (imo), neither could any of their Ultras, and it wasn't a strength of the 5150 either.

If it can do the low and mid gain well, I would definitely get one of these.


----------



## technomancer

Guys take a deep breath and chill... 99% of electronics components are not manufactured in the US anymore, period. No tubes used in guitar amps are currently manufactured in the US. Some of you make it sound like Peavey is trying to cheap out using overseas parts, when the reality is this stuff just plain old is not made in the US anymore.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

technomancer said:


> Guys take a deep breath and chill... 99% of electronics components are not manufactured in the US anymore, period. No tubes used in guitar amps are currently manufactured in the US. Some of you make it sound like Peavey is trying to cheap out using overseas parts, when the reality is this stuff just plain old is not made in the US anymore.



On top of that, it was only recently made law in California IIRC, which is why the change is so recent.


----------



## technomancer

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> On top of that, it was only recently made law in California IIRC, which is why the change is so recent.



Yep it was in the last year or two... even Friedman amps like the Butterslax say "Hand Wired in Los Angeles, CA" now because of this.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

technomancer said:


> Yep it was in the last year or two... even Friedman amps like the Butterslax say "Hand Wired in Los Angeles, CA" now because of this.



I was actually wondering if that was a loophole. I noticed Mesas still say "Hand-Built in California" or whatever.


----------



## GoldDragon

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> On top of that, it was only recently made law in California IIRC, which is why the change is so recent.



Can you explain it to me? Why doesn't it say "made in usa"? Because it has many chinese parts? That seems kinda silly.

Does that mean that 6505s made five years ago in MS, would have to be labeled "Designed and Engineered in USA", if it was built the same way today?

What % of parts have to be american to get the "made in usa" title?

IMO, the labor should be the determining factor of where it is made.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

GoldDragon said:


> Can you explain it to me? Why doesn't it say "made in usa"? Because it has many chinese parts? That seems kinda silly.
> 
> Does that mean that 6505s made five years ago in MS, would have to be labeled "Designed and Engineered in USA"?
> 
> What % of parts have to be american to get the "made in usa" title?



If it's the same as the 1996 FTC proposal, then 75% of the product has to be made of USA parts.

And by recent, I mean 2015 or 2016. That's right before they moved the production of the 6505/6505+ to China.


----------



## FitRocker33

Music man guitars used to have "made in San Luis Obispo, California" on the back of the headstock. Now it says "California heritage since..." 

They are still very emphatically American made guitars.


----------



## technomancer

FitRocker33 said:


> Music man guitars used to have "made in San Luis Obispo, California" on the back of the headstock. Now it says "California heritage since..."
> 
> They are still very emphatically American made guitars.



Yep but under the California law since the basswood may not be US grown, the hardware is likely made by Schaller, etc etc etc they can't say Made in USA


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

technomancer said:


> Yep but under the California law since the basswood may not be US grown, the hardware is likely made by Schaller, etc etc etc they can't say Made in USA


Why exactly are other states held hostage by California laws regarding this matter, anyways? ie, why do Mississippi amp companies and pedal companies from throughout the country held to certain things just because California passes a law? That should be the case for California companies and California companies only.


----------



## technomancer

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Why exactly are other states held hostage by California laws regarding this matter, anyways? ie, why do Mississippi amp companies and pedal companies from throughout the country held to certain things just because California passes a law? That should be the case for California companies and California companies only.



Because it applies to all products sold in California and no company wants to either not sell in California or screw around having the increased costs for separate labeling / production / packaging for stuff going to California. Also pretty sure Cali isn't the only state with legislation like this now, but haven't researched it.


----------



## Deadpool_25

GoldDragon said:


> I've listened to the demos, sounds great clean, lots of gain obviously, but can it get a saturated clean on the edge of breakup, depending on how hard you play? Or can it get a mild gain that cleans up when you play soft?
> 
> I was surprised the Peavey Valve King couldn't do that well (imo), neither could any of their Ultras, and it wasn't a strength of the 5150 either.
> 
> If it can do the low and mid gain well, I would definitely get one of these.



Yeah it would be nice to hear some more in depth demos of the different channels and how they react using the guitar’s volume knob. I don’t know if you noticed but in the latest video posted where Misha does a lesson on “The Way the News Goes”, he plays the intro riff on the clean channel with the OD engaged. That seems like it’s clos to that edge of break up tone but with a little more gain. I’d think a little less gain on the channel or on the OD would get a nice tone in that ballpark. Can’t wait to find out for sure though.


----------



## FitRocker33

It just occurred to me that if I had a manufacturing stamp on my foot it would read "developed and produced in the US" but seeing as my background isn't Native American I can't claim to be 100 percent American made now can i? Hahah


----------



## Petar Bogdanov

technomancer said:


> Yep but under the California law since the basswood may not be US grown, the hardware is likely made by Schaller, etc etc etc they can't say Made in USA



I thought American Basswood grew in the USA.


----------



## technomancer

Petar Bogdanov said:


> I thought American Basswood grew in the USA.



Some does, a lot also grows in Canada. Or the maple may be imported. Or the rosewood if it is a rosewood board. The point being that if a very high percentage of the product is not produced in the US it can't be sold with the branding. Including raw materials being grown here for things like the wood in guitars.


----------



## mnemonic

FitRocker33 said:


> It just occurred to me that if I had a manufacturing stamp on my foot it would read "developed and produced in the US" but seeing as my background isn't Native American I can't claim to be 100 percent American made now can i? Hahah



Technically they can't either as their ancestors migrated from Asia several thousand years ago.


----------



## GoldDragon

Deadpool_25 said:


> Yeah it would be nice to hear some more in depth demos of the different channels and how they react using the guitar’s volume knob. I don’t know if you noticed but in the latest video posted where Misha does a lesson on “The Way the News Goes”, he plays the intro riff on the clean channel with the OD engaged. That seems like it’s clos to that edge of break up tone but with a little more gain. I’d think a little less gain on the channel or on the OD would get a nice tone in that ballpark. Can’t wait to find out for sure though.



This is what it comes down to. The reason this is important is because the majority of music from the 70/80/90s uses tones like that.

I'm guessing the high gain channels are like previous peavey amps, with an extra (extras?) gain stage to give it that super-saturated sound. IME, when you lower the gain on a channel like this, they still sound metalish/harsh, unless you reduce treble and presence alot, and its still not the same thing as a channel with less gain stages.

That leaves the clean channel and how it responds to a boost pedal. (?) What peavey did with the XXX/JSX was designed them to stay clean, even with a hot input signal (actives pups) . When you gave them even more boost, they crapped out (clipped). I think a clean channel should respond to input gain in a very gradual way. At first it should get fat and warm, then with a little more gain or picking harder, should start to break up.

It comes down to how they designed the clean channel. Or maybe one the gain channels has less gain stages? TBD.

Very interesting design for sure. They designed it so you can keep your pedals and FX at the amp.


----------



## Deadpool_25

It’ll be interesting to see how the clean channel takes various boost pedals. The Sweetwater review said that they designed the clean channel to have a lot of headroom unless you push it hard. I’ll be curious to see/hear how the clean channel sounds with no OD and higher gain settings, with low-gain settings on the onboard OD, and with things like a Sweet Tea or other low/medium gain OD pedals. Or with a Horizon PD. 

A the stuff from 70s-90s you mentioned are almost always with non-MV amps right? Might need to get the power tubes cooking to get in those neighborhoods eh?


----------



## lewis

Deadpool_25 said:


> It’ll be interesting to see how the clean channel takes various boost pedals. The Sweetwater review said that they designed the clean channel to have a lot of headroom unless you push it hard. I’ll be curious to see/hear how the clean channel sounds with no OD and higher gain settings, with low-gain settings on the onboard OD, and with things like a Sweet Tea or other low/medium gain OD pedals. Or with a Horizon PD.
> 
> A the stuff from 70s-90s you mentioned are almost always with non-MV amps right? Might need to get the power tubes cooking to get in those neighborhoods eh?


yeah good shout.
Hopefully we see some Friedman BEOD or MXR 5150 pedals into the clean channel demos pop up when the amp drops.

@bulb is that something you could show us?


----------



## GoldDragon

Deadpool_25 said:


> It’ll be interesting to see how the clean channel takes various boost pedals. The Sweetwater review said that they designed the clean channel to have a lot of headroom unless you push it hard. I’ll be curious to see/hear how the clean channel sounds with no OD and higher gain settings, with low-gain settings on the onboard OD, and with things like a Sweet Tea or other low/medium gain OD pedals. Or with a Horizon PD.
> 
> A the stuff from 70s-90s you mentioned are almost always with non-MV amps right? Might need to get the power tubes cooking to get in those neighborhoods eh?



NO, alot of those amps had master volume. But it doesn't matter these days with the number of reactive load devices on the market, you can crank it!

I always loved the Peavey amps (still do) but they are mostly for metal and great lead sounds. Whenever you try to do something else (like 90% of covers) they only do an "ok" job at best. I sold my JSX when I went through an AC/DC phase and realized it couldn't get a credible low/mid-gain sound. (The intro to Hell's Bells is probably a good test for this.) 

Thats why my favorite amp is currently the Laney Ironheart. It does clean with saturation, mild breakup... every level of gain except "molten". Its gain channels seem to have fewer gain stages than a Peavey, so they retain an open character without fizz. If you want super saturated, just add an OD pedal w/ a touch of drive. Its easier to add than it is to take away.

If the Invective can do these low/mid gain sounds, then the midi switching, FX loops and other features make it a no brainer. Otherwise I would be looking at the TC-50.


----------



## Deadpool_25

GoldDragon said:


> NO, alot of those amps had master volume. But it doesn't matter these days with the number of reactive load devices on the market, you can crank it!
> 
> I always loved the Peavey amps (still do) but they are mostly for metal and great lead sounds. Whenever you try to do something else (like 90% of covers) they only do an "ok" job at best. I sold my JSX when I went through an AC/DC phase and realized it couldn't get a credible low/mid-gain sound. (The intro to Hell's Bells is probably a good test for this.)
> 
> Thats why my favorite amp is currently the Laney Ironheart. It does clean with saturation, mild breakup... every level of gain except "molten". Its gain channels seem to have fewer gain stages than a Peavey, so they retain an open character without fizz. If you want super saturated, just add an OD pedal w/ a touch of drive. Its easier to add than it is to take away.
> 
> If the Invective can do these low/mid gain sounds, then the midi switching, FX loops and other features make it a no brainer. Otherwise I would be looking at the TC-50.



I have a TC-50 and it’s awesome. My plan is to run a stereo rig with the TC and the Invective.


----------



## GoldDragon

Deadpool_25 said:


> I have a TC-50 and it’s awesome. My plan is to run a stereo rig with the TC and the Invective.



If you are covering any AC/DC or rock, you might have to disable your left channel.


----------



## Deadpool_25

GoldDragon said:


> If you are covering any AC/DC or rock, you might have to disable your left channel.



Maybe. Then again, maybe not. I’m still guessing the amp will be capable of tones in those neighborhoods with lower gain settings on channel 2 (possibly rolling off guitar’s volume a little, but maybe without needing to) or on channel 1 with higher gain settings.

It’s not like I’d be trying to cop an exact tone of any particular band anyway; I’d be doing covers with my own tone. Otherwise I’d have just kept my Axe FX or bought an AX8  (I have the FX8 now).

As long as the Invective can get in the ballpark of whatever genre I want and do the things I’m particularly interested in very well, I’ll be happy. So far the demos have led me to believe this will be the case.


----------



## GoldDragon

Deadpool_25 said:


> Maybe. Then again, maybe not. I’m still guessing the amp will be capable of tones in those neighborhoods with lower gain settings on channel 2 (possibly rolling off guitar’s volume a little, but maybe without needing to) or on channel 1 with higher gain settings.
> 
> It’s not like I’d be trying to cop an exact tone of any particular band anyway; I’d be doing covers with my own tone. Otherwise I’d have just kept my Axe FX or bought an AX8  (I have the FX8 now).
> 
> As long as the Invective can get in the ballpark of whatever genre I want and do the things I’m particularly interested in very well, I’ll be happy. So far the demos have led me to believe this will be the case.



I'm sure its a fine amp. My long term experience with the XXX and later JSX was that the drive channels already had that "extra" gain stage built in, so even if you lowered the channel gain, and rolled off the volume, the sound never quite went to the middle ground. Neither could you do it by adding gain into the clean channel.

I hope that Peavey realizes that today's amps cover alot of ground, that todays players need them to do many styles. 

I think the downfall of the JSX (for me) was that the clean channel always stayed clean no matter how hard you hit it with boost. 

IMO, thats a terrible tradeoff; building the channel to stay clean when hit hard with active pickups, but unable to get any in between sounds. What makes it worse is that both the gain channels have the extra drive stage, so you can't get there with those channels either. Do one or the other, but not both.

The solution, imo, is to make the extra gain stage switchable on the rythym channel.


----------



## narad

^^ They have overdrive pedals for that. There's really nothing wrong with a clean that stays clean. I prefer a second channel to have a gain stage or two for light overdriven crunchiness, but really high gain + clean that stays clean is probably a pretty good fit with the JSX target demographic.


----------



## Deadpool_25

@bulb said one of the goals was to create a clean channel that fit the rest of the amp. I believe he said that one of the things he doesn't love about most high-gain amps is that when they do have a good clean channel that clean is a crystal clean that doesn't really match the compressed nature of the gain channels. And if what Victor LaRocca said on his video is accurate (and I feel like it is based on what I hear in his video) the clean channel does seem to be somewhat warm and slightly compressed (that clean channel may or may not have been tweaked more since that video though).

For some reason (and this might be completely illogical) this makes me think the clean channel would take pedals fairly well. I guess it's because the HRD is warm and slightly compressed and it takes pedals like a champ. I wonder if LaRocca still has that amp head. He said he likes to play with lots of boosts and stuff so I wonder if he could/would do another video showing some of these things we've been talking about.


----------



## Deadpool_25

@narad Haha. I just read your sig. "What do we say to the God of Practice?" "Not today!" GoT quote? Syrio?


----------



## narad

Deadpool_25 said:


> @narad Haha. I just read your sig. "What do we say to the God of Practice?" "Not today!" GoT quote? Syrio?



Well yea, a GoT reference, but I stole it from a guy on thegearpage ;-)


----------



## GoldDragon

narad said:


> ^^ They have overdrive pedals for that. There's really nothing wrong with a clean that stays clean. I prefer a second channel to have a gain stage or two for light overdriven crunchiness, but really high gain + clean that stays clean is probably a pretty good fit with the JSX target demographic.



IDK, I'm a satriani fan and while the noise suppressor, pres and res knobs were great features, it was just a XXX with some minor changes. The "crunch" channel had all the extra gain stages, and when you turned down the gain, it got "farty" like the XXX; never got to a place where dynamics or volume knob changed the level of drive. I kinda expected satriani to put his name on something really versatile. Turns out he was only using the clean channel with all sorts of pedals before going to Marshall.


----------



## GoldDragon

Deadpool_25 said:


> @bulb said one of the goals was to create a clean channel that fit the rest of the amp. I believe he said that one of the things he doesn't love about most high-gain amps is that when they do have a good clean channel that clean is a crystal clean that doesn't really match the compressed nature of the gain channels. And if what Victor LaRocca said on his video is accurate (and I feel like it is based on what I hear in his video) the clean channel does seem to be somewhat warm and slightly compressed (that clean channel may or may not have been tweaked more since that video though).
> 
> For some reason (and this might be completely illogical) this makes me think the clean channel would take pedals fairly well. I guess it's because the HRD is warm and slightly compressed and it takes pedals like a champ. I wonder if LaRocca still has that amp head. He said he likes to play with lots of boosts and stuff so I wonder if he could/would do another video showing some of these things we've been talking about.



I dont know who he is but I would watch a linked video.


----------



## GoldDragon

narad said:


> ^^ They have overdrive pedals for that. There's really nothing wrong with a clean that stays clean. I prefer a second channel to have a gain stage or two for light overdriven crunchiness, but really high gain + clean that stays clean is probably a pretty good fit with the JSX target demographic.



I was trying to find a good authentic low gain drive pedal and I got one of the Tone Bones (it was blue). Had alot of potential, but was a nightmare from a switching standpoint. Going from the kind of clean I like to a gain channel on the jsx always took two foot presses. The amp needs to do this.

Most OD pedals don't do the mildly saturated thing all that well. Its like the saturation is independent of the input gain.


----------



## Deadpool_25

Here's a playlist with a few Invective videos: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLb8B4z1q8-p42qVDFVGF67X0B2fAQ6Ewq

And here is the particular video by Victor La Rocca:


----------



## narad

I mean, it's not as good as an amp that does a good breakup, but there are plenty of good pedals that do a decent job at it. Bogner, leqtique, j rockett, a million thegearpage favs. Some of my favorite bluesy low-gain solo-y tone was a Fender with nice OD pedals. A warmer clean tone usually helps.

But this is all just to say that most JSX owners probably knew pretty well what they were getting into and weren't going to be primarily indie rock / blues players. I mean, it's a sig amp, it kinda doesn't make sense.


----------



## Deadpool_25

GoldDragon said:


> I was trying to find a good authentic low gain drive pedal and I got one of the Tone Bones (it was blue). Had alot of potential, but was a nightmare from a switching standpoint. Going from the kind of clean I like to a gain channel on the jsx always took two foot presses. The amp needs to do this.
> 
> Most OD pedals don't do the mildly saturated thing all that well. Its like the saturation is independent of the input gain.



I've found that a lot of good OD pedals (at least the ones I've tried) clean up quite well with the volume knob.


----------



## GoldDragon

Deadpool_25 said:


> I've found that a lot of good OD pedals (at least the ones I've tried) clean up quite well with the volume knob.



My personal clean tone is fat with a little bit of grit so whenever I switch between clean and gain channels, it takes two pedal presses if the amp's clean can't be set that way. Maybe the invective loops can be assigned by channel which could automatically switch the OD with the clean.


----------



## Deadpool_25

GoldDragon said:


> My personal clean tone is fat with a little bit of grit so whenever I switch between clean and gain channels, it takes two pedal presses if the amp's clean can't be set that way. Maybe the invective loops can be assigned by channel which could automatically switch the OD with the clean.



Ah. Yeah I get you. The loops might work but would be a strange place to put an OD...which is not to say it wouldn’t work

It’s MIDI controllable too so there are a lot of options. I will be using an FX8 so switching channels and activating a pedal will be quite easy. Another option might be one of the Helix or Boss models to allow easier use of a favorite standalone OD.

Regardless, though I’m talking about workarounds, I’m hoping the Invective can do the things you are talking about on its own. If so, the rest is just gravy


----------



## Shoeless_jose

GoldDragon said:


> My personal clean tone is fat with a little bit of grit so whenever I switch between clean and gain channels, it takes two pedal presses if the amp's clean can't be set that way. Maybe the invective loops can be assigned by channel which could automatically switch the OD with the clean.



I think you'd like some of the Mark series amps. John Browne has some videos up on the Mesa site and his clean tone is so fat and woody it's unreal like I would kill for a clean tone like that.


----------



## lewis

is there any plans to do a 50 watt lunchbox version of the amp?


----------



## Shoeless_jose

lewis said:


> is there any plans to do a 50 watt lunchbox version of the amp?



likely focusing on just getting the amp on the shelves at this point.


----------



## Deadpool_25

lewis said:


> is there any plans to do a 50 watt lunchbox version of the amp?



@bulb answered a similar question earlier in the thread (I know it's a long thread). Like @Dineley mentioned, they are focusing on getting this amp out there and will have to see how it does, but Misha said it might be interesting to look at if the 120 does well. What I took from that is that it might get considered if the 120 does well but it's not currently being talked about. So while it might happen, I wouldn't hold my breath.


----------



## Deadpool_25

Also, I'd think a small form-factor version would be in the 15-25w range since the 120 can be switched down to 60w.


----------



## GoldDragon

Deadpool_25 said:


> Also, I'd think a small form-factor version would be in the 15-25w range since the 120 can be switched down to 60w.



IMO, there no reason to make a smaller invective. The 6505mh sounds good, but not great. In AB against the real 6505 it doesnt have the punch and aggression.

I wonder if the 60W switch is just disabling two tubes like pulling them physically would? If its some kind of attenuation separate from disabling tubes, it might be possible to remove two tubes and have the amp at 30W? Its fun to speculate.


----------



## GoldDragon

Deadpool_25 said:


> @bulb answered a similar question earlier in the thread (I know it's a long thread). Like @Dineley mentioned, they are focusing on getting this amp out there and will have to see how it does, but Misha said it might be interesting to look at if the 120 does well. What I took from that is that it might get considered if the 120 does well but it's not currently being talked about. So while it might happen, I wouldn't hold my breath.



This is an interesting thought... if it doesn't do well.

I hadn't even thought about that because Peavey hasn't had a new tube amp design in around 15 years (jsx). I figured people would eat this up. The 6505 is iconic, now made in china, vs a new amp with much better features that is MiA(but not labeled as such) and based on the 6505. Besides the shared EQ, this amp has every feature a gigging guitarist would need from a tube amp.

I don't know anything about who buys tube amps anymore. If the Invective doesn't do well, its because everyone is buying Chinese made amps for the lower price. New players probably want modelers. This is probably going to be the last (sorta) Made in America tube amp Peavey makes. If their design cycle is every 10-15 years, its possible no one will be buying tube amps when the Invective is at the end of its run. Its probably more likely that in the next 2-5 years they will move its production to China.


----------



## Unleash The Fury

Thats fine if its the last tube amp they make because they last forever so they will always be bought and sold throughout the world. Its not like they will sieze to exist.

But it does beg the question, when will Peavey introduce their first moder competitive amp modeler pedalboard?


----------



## Matt08642

GoldDragon said:


> If the Invective doesn't do well, its because everyone is buying Chinese made amps for the lower price.



Or it's because it was announced and then delay after delay happened and people who would love to try it can't in any way shape or form


----------



## Deadpool_25

Matt08642 said:


> Or it's because it was announced and then delay after delay happened and people who would love to try it can't in any way shape or form



Delays may affect initial sales if the early interest fades (which it has if this thread is any indication, though I wonder what percentage of preorders actually cancel before it releases). However if the amp is great the delays won’t matter...the price could matter though. The people who only want it if it’s MIA are, I suspect, a tiny minority. My guess is that it would do substantially better if it was made overseas and correspondingly less expensive. That’s assuming a high quality product of course.

I’m wondering if the delays are due to manufacturing problems with the Meridian factory.


----------



## narad

^^ I'm one of the MIA guys, though admittedly I guess my gear is fringe in many ways. I mean, it's nice to have some other options -- I've actually wanted a 5150 sound for a while but I don't like a bunch of plastic pieces on an amp. Then you're mostly looking around at like SLOs and cornfords and things for something close, and not even that close.


----------



## Deadpool_25

narad said:


> ^^ I'm one of the MIA guys, though admittedly I guess my gear is fringe in many ways. I mean, it's nice to have some other options -- I've actually wanted a 5150 sound for a while but I don't like a bunch of plastic pieces on an amp. Then you're mostly looking around at like SLOs and cornfords and things for something close, and not even that close.



Interesting. Nothing sounds quite like a 5150/6505 to me. Well, the good modelers do but that not what we’re talking about.

I’ve been considering a multi-watt Dual Rec if the Invective doesn’t work out. Those are MIA as much as the Invective is I think, and have a monster metal tone all their own. If I hadn’t been lusting after that unique 5150 tone, I’d probably go that route. The DR + TC-50 would probably be just as awesome as the DR + Invective.

I’ll be running with an FX8, but am still considering the amps with an AX8 instead. That was my initial plan when I sold my AFX: stereo amp setup with AX8 in 4CM. The only additional feature I’d miss out of the Invective is the MIDI control but that could be compensated for pretty easily via relays or a mini amp gizmo. Boosts and gates are on the AX8 (and FX8).

Dual Rec + TC-50 + AX8 + FX8 maybe? Come on Peavey, get that Invective out there! See what you’re making me consider? Lol


----------



## PrestoDone

all i know is i preordered the invective back in january...couple more weeks wont kill me


----------



## Deadpool_25

PrestoDone said:


> all i know is i preordered the invective back in january...couple more weeks wont kill me



Yeah, it's fine. Sweetwater is saying they think it'll be early November this time. I'm not holding my breath on that as there have been too many pushbacks so far, but who knows. At this point I'm actually pretty patient, but I am curious what is actually causing the delays. /shrug


----------



## cmtd

Just got off the phone with guitar center....again. Their site has shown the invective as "Available 10-10-17" for a while now, so I have been cautiously optimistic. After a discussion, they informed me that they did not receive the amps today, and stated that Peavey has again pushed the date back to Oct 20th. No word on what the problem is.

This is really becoming a joke at this point. This product was announced almost a year ago. I traded in my amp and to fund this head, and have now been without an amp for 5 months. I think I am gonna give this pre-order until the 20th, and then cancel it. Which sucks, because this amp checks so many boxes of what I would like to have. This isn't Peavey's 1st product launch and the silence, other than the date being pushed back again and again is not acceptable IMO.

Misha, I know you read this thread, no intention of flaming you over this at all. Hope you don't take it personally.


----------



## Deadpool_25

cmtd said:


> Just got off the phone with guitar center....again. Their site has shown the invective as "Available 10-10-17" for a while now, so I have been cautiously optimistic. After a discussion, they informed me that they did not receive the amps today, and stated that Peavey has again pushed the date back to Oct 20th. No word on what the problem is.
> 
> This is really becoming a joke at this point. This product was announced almost a year ago. I traded in my amp and to fund this head, and have now been without an amp for 5 months. I think I am gonna give this pre-order until the 20th, and then cancel it. Which sucks, because this amp checks so many boxes of what I would like to have. This isn't Peavey's 1st product launch and the silence, other than the date being pushed back again and again is not acceptable IMO.
> 
> Misha, I know you read this thread, no intention of flaming you over this at all. Hope you don't take it personally.



I understand where you're coming from. I have an amp I can use in the meantime, but I did sell some stuff to help fund the Invective. I was planning on no-interest financing through Sweetwater. Now I have the cash in hand to pay it off immediately, so that's a nice little silver lining I guess. However, I've been planning on this TC-50/Invective stereo rig. So with all the delays, it has made me consider a different setup--specifically a Dual Rec with the TC-50. However, I know that while the DR is awesome, I'd get it in and really like it, then when the Invective comes out, I'll wish I had just waited a while longer. So...wait it is for me.
@cmtd , if you really think you'd love this amp more than others, it may be worth waiting for. Just a thought.


----------



## bulb

So I just got word from Peavey that the first of the amps are shipping out to stores as of today! It's a relatively small batch, but it's a start, and there should be more to follow soon!


----------



## Deadpool_25

bulb said:


> So I just got word from Peavey that the first of the amps are shipping out to stores as of today! It's a relatively small batch, but it's a start, and there should be more to follow soon!



Awesome to hear, Misha! Thanks for the update!


----------



## PrestoDone

bulb said:


> So I just got word from Peavey that the first of the amps are shipping out to stores as of today! It's a relatively small batch, but it's a start, and there should be more to follow soon!


 Just got off the horn with sweetwater , they still have not been sent shipping confirmation so eta for them is first week of november. this could change in the next few hours or by tomorrow. lets keep the fibgers crossed. Thanks Misha!


----------



## Panacea224

Thanks for the update Misha. So excited to receive mine.


----------



## Ironbird666

I'm glad to hear they are finally moving to stores! I'll be safe and just assume Sweetwater will start receiving them early November like I was informed. Still, positive news finally.


----------



## JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo

I'm looking forward to all the tasty demos that'll keep me occupied until I can remotely afford it, haha


----------



## PrestoDone

hey misha @bulb , im going to catch you guys in los angeles at the wiltern...what are the chances of getting the back plate signed, assuming i have it by then, by you


----------



## Black_Sheep

bulb said:


> It's a relatively small batch, but it's a start, and there should be more to follow soon!



I really hope so. With the massive hype around this amp, I can already see to my own future. Next spring when im ready (which means can afford, student at the moment) to buy one, they're all out of stock. And the next batch goes to whoever ordered months before me, and so on and so on which will eventually result in me buying an amp or something that is actually available.

Im sure the pre-orders for this thing are through the roof, so I really hope Peavey takes this seriously. It is also the most expensive amp they ever made so it's a win win for everyone if they make more.


----------



## Nitrobattery

FYI, the place that I occasionally do independent contractor work for just got one in stock this morning. I don't get any kickbacks for any sales or anything so I hope this is ok, but their number is 1-877-SOUND-01.


----------



## PrestoDone

i will call sweetwater in the morning...hopefully they have some good news...

i will call sweetwater in the morning...hopefully they have some good news...

dont mean to switch subjects from the invective, but scored a beat up crate 4x12 cab from the early 90s for $40. replaced the switch and the input jacks and put 2 celestion 30s and 2 creamback-H in an x pattern...second cab i do this too hope it sounds ok


----------



## PrestoDone

just got off the phone with sweetwater, they have not received any invectives yet and still have an eta of first week of November


----------



## crankyrayhanky

October bummer
If this delivers the tones like it should, it will be hard not to get in on this!


----------



## PrestoDone

crankyrayhanky said:


> October bummer
> If this delivers the tones like it should, it will be hard not to get in on this!




too late for me...i have already started to pay for it


----------



## PrestoDone

literally just got a call from Ben, my sales engineer over at sweetwater, they got 5 invectives in and my invective will ship to me today! I should receive it by next week on thursday. i recommend who ever preordered early to call...i preordered my invective mid jan. i will post pics and clips once i get my hands on it. good luck fellas!


----------



## Deadpool_25

Nice! I didn't order until June so there are people in front of me in line...you were obviously one of those people.

With that said, I may or may not have one on the way from another source...


----------



## Deadpool_25

With the knowledge that they are now available, I’m actually a bit surprised no one has chimed in to say they have one in hand yet. I’m sure we’ll have a few guys with them in the next few days.


----------



## whosdealin

I was one of the first to order through Sweetwater also... They sent me a tracking # today. Should have the head by Wednesday.


----------



## Bearitone

I think everyone that gets theirs should do a NAD without reading other NADs. That way we get unbiased review from a few members here 

Stupid idea?


----------



## Deadpool_25

kindsage said:


> I think everyone that gets theirs should do a NAD without reading other NADs. That way we get unbiased review from a few members here
> 
> Stupid idea?



Ha. No, it’s a good idea but unlikely. 

Is anyone else kinda excited, or is it just me?


----------



## lewis

PrestoDone said:


> i will call sweetwater in the morning...hopefully they have some good news...
> 
> i will call sweetwater in the morning...hopefully they have some good news...
> 
> dont mean to switch subjects from the invective, but scored a beat up crate 4x12 cab from the early 90s for $40. replaced the switch and the input jacks and put 2 celestion 30s and 2 creamback-H in an x pattern...second cab i do this too hope it sounds ok


would love a thread on that Cab with review/clips if its possible?


----------



## Panacea224

I'm definitely excited. Can't wait to receive my head and cab.


----------



## PrestoDone

lewis said:


> would love a thread on that Cab with review/clips if its possible?



i did not get the matching cab, but put vintage 30s and Creamback H in an x pattern in my rivera 412 ... been playing through it with my powerball ii and its a game changer...my new fav combination


----------



## lewis

PrestoDone said:


> i did not get the matching cab, but put vintage 30s and Creamback H in an x pattern in my rivera 412 ... been playing through it with my powerball ii and its a game changer...my new fav combination


ooh nice.

I would still be interested to know why/how etc if you would care to review it?


----------



## PrestoDone

lewis said:


> ooh nice.
> 
> I would still be interested to know why/how etc if you would care to review it?




wont get the invective in my hands till thursday, but the vintage 30 and creamback H combination gives you a tighter bottom end. also it still has those creamy upper mids because of the vintage 30s. Also it makes the lower mids and the bottom end more defined. I know it varies from amp to amp but its a match made in heaven with my ENGL Powerball 2. I scored an early 90s crate cab that is beat up but in one piece. i last week i also put that same speaker configuration into it , but havnt tested it yet. I will try to make a video with the incective a/b both cabs as soon as i can.


----------



## Deadpool_25

PrestoDone said:


> i did not get the matching cab, but put vintage 30s and Creamback H in an x pattern in my rivera 412 ... been playing through it with my powerball ii and its a game changer...my new fav combination



Very cool. I had a custom cab built. It’s a 2x12 with V30 and creamback H. I had it built to look like/match my Mesa vertical 212, but this is wider to work with the Invective head. I also had it made to be as close to the same volume of airspace as the Peavey cab.

I can echo your sentiments in your review. It’s an awesome cab. Been using it with my TC-50. When the Invective gets here the TC is going back to the stock Mesa 212. I may swap one of its speakers to a creamback as well.


----------



## Ironbird666

Have any of you played a V30/K100 combination and could compare it to the V30/Creamback H? I have the V30/K100 combo currently in my 4x12 but I've been curious about the Creambacks for a while. I'm not sure if I would switch it up anytime soon but if it's that much more worth it I may consider it in the future.


----------



## Deadpool_25

Sorry, I haven’t tried that combo.


----------



## Ironbird666

Deadpool_25 said:


> Sorry, I haven’t tried that combo.



No worries. I may just give it a shot down the road eventually. I'll do my research.


----------



## lewis

Ironbird666 said:


> No worries. I may just give it a shot down the road eventually. I'll do my research.


im just going to do this myself.
Now i have my v30 + G12k100 x pattern 4x12, Im going to try v30 + creamback H in my laney 2x12


----------



## Deadpool_25

Invective in hand!! I’ll get some pics up in a bit. SEXY!


----------



## Deadpool_25

Guess I'll use this spot to add a few pics.


----------



## Deadpool_25

Now for an initial noodle to check it out...


----------



## crwnedblasphemy

Sweet. Lycanthropy wait to hear thoughts and clips


----------



## crwnedblasphemy

Can’t wait..:don’t know why spellcheck put that


----------



## JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo

All aboard the hype train!


----------



## Deadpool_25

My initial thoughts are...I love it. I guess I'll need to do a NAD thread with a full review, but so far....yeah I love it. Great work @bulb !!


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Holy shit, Misha broke the Peavey curse.

A sig Peavey that actually exists.


----------



## Lethalharmonic

Just finished up shredding it! 
Gotta Crash tho
The amount of clarity in the high end and midrange is unreal!! Cleans are breathtaking through the 2x12 I definitely feel like it has its own thing going on apart from a 5150 & 6505+ Just feels like a fresh modern metal machine! Low end fills out very nicely when the resonance hits 7 & man does the mid range have character!!

Going to test with the Mesa OS & 1960 marshall cab (T-75s) tomorrow!!

Sticker on the back of the amp says “made in China” yet the box it came in says assembled in USA under the usual “designed & engineered in USA” 
Either way its flawless and just looks killer IMO 

Look forward to sharing thoughts with everyone!!


----------



## Deadpool_25

Lethalharmonic said:


> View attachment 56879
> Just finished up shredding it!
> Gotta Crash tho
> The amount of clarity in the high end and midrange is unreal!! Cleans are breathtaking through the 2x12 I definitely feel like it has its own thing going on apart from a 5150 & 6505+ Just feels like a fresh modern metal machine! Low end fills out very nicely when the resonance hits 7 & man does the mid range have character!!
> 
> Going to test with the Mesa OS & 1960 marshall cab (T-75s) tomorrow!!
> 
> Sticker on the back of the amp says “made in China” yet the box it came in says assembled in USA under the usual “designed & engineered in USA”
> Either way its flawless and just looks killer IMO
> 
> Look forward to sharing thoughts with everyone!!



Awesome! Yeah I agree with your characterizations. It’s amazing. Interesting yours says made in China. Mine has a sticker on the back that says “Assembled in the USA.” Makes me wonder if the delays with the US plant made them move the assembly to China. I dunno. Either way man this amp kicks ass.


----------



## Lethalharmonic

Deadpool_25 said:


> Awesome! Yeah I agree with your characterizations. It’s amazing. Interesting yours says made in China. Mine has a sticker on the back that says “Assembled in the USA.” Makes me wonder if the delays with the US plant made them move the assembly to China. I dunno. Either way man this amp kicks ass.





Just noticed both our stickers on the box have same month manufacture dates yet our serials are so close yours ending in11461 & mine 11470 just 9 later off the line! But I have a “Made in China” sticker on the board!! Send some pics I gotta see this to believe it!!

I hate to drive this home so early but I have seen it brought up so many times in countless forums all year and would like to put it to rest once and for all!


----------



## Deadpool_25

Wow. I was about to say I’d take a pic later, but remembered I shot a pic yesterday when it first came in. You can easily see the Made in USA sticker.

This makes me think Peavey had some problems with slow production at the US plant and moved rapidly to switch production to China. That’s total speculation though. If that is the case it’ll piss some people off. And people will definitely complain about paying $1900 for a MIC amp. Not to say those complaints wouldn’t be valid, but I can say I definitely feel like it’s worth what I paid.

I can’t seem to grab the actual image link to embed it from my phone but here’s the link. 

https://flic.kr/p/ZHdoZU


----------



## Unleash The Fury

Glad to hear the reviews so far are positive. But im wondering if they based on "biased honeymoon hype". I hope not! Ill still wait to see what users are saying a month from now as they break it in.


----------



## Deadpool_25

Unleash The Fury said:


> Glad to hear the reviews so far are positive. But im wondering if they based on "biased honeymoon hype". I hope not! Ill still wait to see what users are saying a month from now as they break it in.



Well I'm definitely in the honeymoon phase, and I have limited experience with various amps--especially compared with a lot of guys around here and other forums. I'm actually curious to hear from some folks how it compares to a 5150 in the crunch and lead channels. That's what it was based on, and positive comparisons there would be quite a testament. I'm interested to see what happens when some of the big youtube demo types get their hands on it. Fluff, Pete Thorn, Andertons (Pete and Rabea please), etc. Regardless...loving it right now. 

For all of its features, the amp is really pretty damn simple too. I guess one thing people might not like is the shared EQ on the crunch and lead channels. Personally I don't see it as an issue, but I know some will.


----------



## Unleash The Fury

Deadpool_25 said:


> Well I'm definitely in the honeymoon phase, and I have limited experience with various amps--especially compared with a lot of guys around here and other forums. I'm actually curious to hear from some folks how it compares to a 5150 in the crunch and lead channels. That's what it was based on, and positive comparisons there would be quite a testament. I'm interested to see what happens when some of the big youtube demo types get their hands on it. Fluff, Pete Thorn, Andertons (Pete and Rabea please), etc. Regardless...loving it right now.
> 
> For all of its features, the amp is really pretty damn simple too. I guess one thing people might not like is the shared EQ on the crunch and lead channels. Personally I don't see it as an issue, but I know some will.



I think those gear reviewers especially Andertons, are very one sided. They think everything sounds great. But i suppose, if they can get a good sound out of something then its fair to say you can too. Dont listen to me im just being negative. Go enjoy your amp and record some brootz if you can!


----------



## Deadpool_25

Unleash The Fury said:


> I think those gear reviewers especially Andertons, are very one sided. They think everything sounds great. But i suppose, if they can get a good sound out of something then its fair to say you can too. Dont listen to me im just being negative. Go enjoy your amp and record some brootz if you can!



I agree they seem to be pretty one-sided. However, I feel like you can get a feel for how excited they really are about a product sometimes. Regardless, I just enjoy the demos. lol.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Deadpool_25 said:


> Guess I'll use this spot to add a few pics.



Awesome! Those blue leds are beautiful. How does the Invective sound with your Mesa 2x12 Vertical? That's a 2x12 vertical right?


----------



## Tisca

Have you looked inside, did you at least get brand tubes? While you're poking inside, check if the trannies are marked. Slim chance but look anyway.


----------



## Ironbird666

Deadpool_25 said:


> Well I'm definitely in the honeymoon phase, and I have limited experience with various amps--especially compared with a lot of guys around here and other forums. I'm actually curious to hear from some folks how it compares to a 5150 in the crunch and lead channels. That's what it was based on, and positive comparisons there would be quite a testament. I'm interested to see what happens when some of the big youtube demo types get their hands on it. Fluff, Pete Thorn, Andertons (Pete and Rabea please), etc. Regardless...loving it right now.
> 
> For all of its features, the amp is really pretty damn simple too. I guess one thing people might not like is the shared EQ on the crunch and lead channels. Personally I don't see it as an issue, but I know some will.



I owned a 5150 for many years. I'll definitely be able to give an opinion on how the crunch/lead channel compares to the "sig" 5150 I used to own. It's a sound and feel I'm very familiar with. I sold the amp to a friend of mine so I still get to play it from time to time. If I'm able, I'll see if I can get both heads in the same room and go back and forth through my cab to see how much has changed. It may not happen, but I can try.


----------



## crankyrayhanky

To puff your chest out and continually proclaim *USA* during development and then sneak in some fine print China is bad PR, no way around that. It is still an amp I consider and GAS, but that is a WTF moment. Harley.

How's it sound on the Mesa vertical 2x12?


----------



## Lethalharmonic

Another quick update! Just finished a half hour jam in Drop A with EMGS on my Boden OS7
through the ol' 4x12 Slant baffle straight cab Mesa with the UK V30s A/B'd it with my Axe Fx
5150 and 6505+ sims and let me tell you. The Attack Punch and Clarity in the Midrange and low midrange is INCREDIBLE! turn the on board boost on and rock back the Resonance and low EQ a bit and your right in that recordable cutting territory! My ears just keep telling me on and off axis all around Punchy Tighter Low Mids extremely clear highs! just excitement all around.


----------



## Slam5150

I should be getting mine in about 2 weeks from sweetwater. I am curious as to the USA/China production too because like someone said, Peavey hyped the “made in US” and if it is being made/assembled in China, I have a problem spending the money I spent on this amp.


----------



## Tisca

crankyrayhanky said:


> To puff your chest out and continually proclaim *USA* during development and then sneak in some fine print China is bad PR, no way around that...



How else are they going to charge that price without the letters U and S somewhere =). Let's wait for the Bugera clone for a 3rd of the price.


----------



## Deadpool_25

MASS DEFECT said:


> Awesome! Those blue leds are beautiful. How does the Invective sound with your Mesa 2x12 Vertical? That's a 2x12 vertical right?





crankyrayhanky said:


> To puff your chest out and continually proclaim *USA* during development and then sneak in some fine print China is bad PR, no way around that. It is still an amp I consider and GAS, but that is a WTF moment. Harley.
> 
> How's it sound on the Mesa vertical 2x12?



It’s actually a custom cab I had built especially for the Invective. I included the Mesa logo so it would match aesthetically with my actual Mesa vertical 2x12. This cabinet is wider to accommodate the Invective head which is too wide for a stock Mesa vert 2x12. It is also a little deeper. The internal airspace is almost exactly that of the stock Invective cabinet, and like that cabinet this one is finger jointed pine and 16 ohm, housing a V30 and a Creamback (both 8ohm and made in the UK). The cab is awesome IMO and the Invective sounds fantastic through it.

Edit: it occurs to me that maybe you guys were asking how it sounds through the actual Mesa 2x12 (that’s under the TC-50 in my pic above). I haven’t tried that yet but I certainly can. 

I agree about the Made in the USA thing. It was a point of pride for them initially and saw me people preordered based on that, so if production has moved to China I’d hope they’d let folks know.



Tisca said:


> Have you looked inside, did you at least get brand tubes? While you're poking inside, check if the trannies are marked. Slim chance but look anyway.



I have not poked around inside it, but I’ll try to remember to check those out when I get home.


----------



## bnzboy

Pics are looking good! Peavey should have been clear about engineered in U.S.A vs made in China. Although people really need to realize that some of our instruments we end up owning would be eventually made in China. Randal Satan was my first MIC amp and it is my main amp now.


----------



## HighGain510

Yeah I find it a little strange given how much Peavey themselves hyped up the fact that these would be built in the USA only to ship production over to China and not say a peep about it?  The Peavey guy at NAMM specifically called that out as well as one of the selling points:

(Edit: Not sure why the URL changed from the stopped video when it embedded, but fast forward to 3:23 in the video below)




Keep in mind that I’m in no way bashing the amp itself as it can be built in China and still sound great if they used quality parts and a reputable factory for the work. But given the pricepoint, to me at least, it seemed easier to swallow if they were being built in the US because labor is substantially more expensive here so that would be the expectation. If they’re building them in a country where the labor rates are substantially lower, you’d think the smarter PR move would have been to announce the change in country of production at the very least, and possibly even drop the price to account for it.  I don’t think the 5150 III 50w would have sold nearly as well if the new price were $1750.  Granted it isn’t as complicated or have the endorsement behind it, but I’m sure you get what I mean.

I’m still excited to check one of these out, but I would have to come across a REALLY good discount from a dealer or a lower priced used one given the change in country of manufacture (again not speaking to the quality of Chinese amp manufacturing, strictly the cost difference) so that part is a bit of a bummer for me.


----------



## godgrinder

"Assembled" is such a loose term anyway. They could've soldered up the PCBs with parts in China then chuck it into the chassis in the US and call it "assembled in USA".

The way how it's just a sticker instead of being silkscreened on the chassis makes me even more suspicious.



Deadpool_25 said:


> Interesting yours says made in China. Mine has a sticker on the back that says “Assembled in the USA.” Makes me wonder if the delays with the US plant made them move the assembly to China. I dunno.


----------



## technomancer

godgrinder said:


> "Assembled" is such a loose term anyway. They could've soldered up the PCBs with parts in China then chuck it into the chassis in the US and call it "assembled in USA".
> 
> The way how it's just a sticker instead of being silkscreened on the chassis makes me even more suspicious.



Read the earlier stuff in the thread about why nothing electronic says Made in the USA anymore...


----------



## Deadpool_25

Remember guys, we are speculating that at least some of these are coming out of China. And that’s based on the sticker on one amp we’ve seen so far. Mine definitely says “Assembled in the USA.” So while we are making educated guess, they are still just guesses. Let’s not break out the pitchforks and torches just yet (though I understand making sure they’re ready to go lol).

IF production moved to China then I agree you’d expect to see the price come down. Unless, of course, it actually costs much more than they expected to produce so they had to move it to keep the $1900 price point. Not sure that’s likely, but the 5153 is $1800 ($2200 for the Stealth) and made in Mexico. Dual Recs are “Hand Built In CA” but they’re just a little more expensive than the Invective. The PRS Archon is “Assembled in the USA” and is about $50 more than the Invective.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not defending the silence in the face of a significant change to a significant selling point. I’m just saying considering the feature set, I’m not sure the price is out of line with the competition regardless.

@Lethalharmonic, have you considered calling Peavey and actually asking them? I’m not sure I’d expect a solid answer as companies these days seem to be making dancing around the truth a standard business practice, but it might be worth a shot.


----------



## Deadpool_25

godgrinder said:


> "Assembled" is such a loose term anyway. They could've soldered up the PCBs with parts in China then chuck it into the chassis in the US and call it "assembled in USA".
> 
> The way how it's just a sticker instead of being silkscreened on the chassis makes me even more suspicious.



+1 to what @technomancer said.

Take a look at my post above. Notice even Dual Recs and Mark Vs don’t say “Made in the USA” anymore.


----------



## godgrinder

Yeah I've seen similar discussions for several times now. It's just that there were always been many rumours about Peavey on that issue (but not Mesa etc).

Back when 6505's became officially "made in China", the price didn't really drop and I doubt this one would.

As long as the QC is well enforced it should be all good though. We're all posting on here with MIC gadgets after all...


----------



## cmtd

Guitar center is telling me Nov 6th they expect the shipment to arrive. But they "may" arrive a week earlier. Guess we will see.


----------



## FitRocker33

godgrinder said:


> As long as the QC is well enforced it should be all good though. We're all posting on here with MIC gadgets after all...



Hah very true. The iPad I type this on is as Chinese as a roast pork egg roll.


----------



## Deadpool_25

I'm actually curious what's UNDER the Assembled in the USA/Made In China stickers...


----------



## godgrinder

Deadpool_25 said:


> I'm actually curious what's UNDER the Assembled in the USA/Made In China stickers...



That area is blank is you look at photos from the original press release/preorders etc.


----------



## Deadpool_25

Tisca said:


> Have you looked inside, did you at least get brand tubes? While you're poking inside, check if the trannies are marked. Slim chance but look anyway.



Without pulling it apart, which I simply don’t feel like doing, all I can say is that the power tubes are JJs. They do say 5G1 on the back.

The preamp tubes have metal covers. And the trannies have no markings that I can see through either the front or back grates. All of the internal screws/nuts I can see have dabs of red paint on them, presumably for evidence of tampering in a warranty situation.


----------



## Deadpool_25

godgrinder said:


> That area is blank is you look at photos from the original press release/preorders etc.



Ah yeah. Good call.


----------



## USMarine75

HighGain510 said:


> Granted it isn’t as complicated or have the endorsement behind it, but I’m sure you get what I mean.



So you're saying the EVH 5153 lacks the level of endorsement the Invective has?


----------



## diagrammatiks

1800 is actually really good price for a 3 channel amp this complicated. The 667 is made over seas as well at the same price point. 

But it’s wierd that there are 2 countries of origin on the sticker. 



USMarine75 said:


> So you're saying the EVH 5153 lacks the level of endorsement the Invective has?



But Eddie has to get with the social media man. When was the last time Eddie came here and said hi.


----------



## bluffalo

Guys guys, spare a thought for us in Australia that are going to have to pay $3600 for this..... Stop complaining about $1900 or whatever it is for you haha


----------



## prlgmnr

diagrammatiks said:


> But Eddie has to get with the social media man. When was the last time Eddie came here and said hi.



He posts on here as "Jeffbro"


----------



## HighGain510

USMarine75 said:


> So you're saying the EVH 5153 lacks the level of endorsement the Invective has?



I’m saying the 5150 III didn’t have an artist endorsing it quite as heavily as a sig amp (aside from the obvious EVH stamp of approval) especially considering how many versions keep coming out. Misha worked directly with Peavey on a lot of the design elements to get it perfect to his tastes, whereas from what I’ve seen, the 5150 III was basically designed by Howard Kaplan and then EVH signed off on it.  I’d say it’s a less direct involvement from an artist endorsing the gear, no clue what percentage Eddie sees off each 5150 sale but I don’t know that his involvement was quite at the same level. That and we see a new revision every 6-12 months of “this is the version Eddie uses! BUY THIS!!!” to help move units.


----------



## USMarine75

HighGain510 said:


> I’m saying the 5150 III didn’t have an artist endorsing it quite as heavily as a sig amp (aside from the obvious EVH stamp of approval) especially considering how many versions keep coming out. Misha worked directly with Peavey on a lot of the design elements to get it perfect to his tastes, whereas from what I’ve seen, the 5150 III was basically designed by Howard Kaplan and then EVH signed off on it.  I’d say it’s a less direct involvement from an artist endorsing the gear, no clue what percentage Eddie sees off each 5150 sale but I don’t know that his involvement was quite at the same level. That and we see a new revision every 6-12 months of “this is the version Eddie uses! BUY THIS!!!” to help move units.



Wow couldn't disagree more with literally every single point. Your phrasing sounds like the Invective is a sig amp and the 5153 somehow _isn't_?

The 5150 might be one of the most used and recognizable amps in rock and metal, of all time, aside from the "big two". * And the amp is synonymous with the artist.* Do you really think that 20 years from now the Invective will be synonymous with Misha? And, um, the Invective _IS _a modded 5150. Hell, I'll put my FJAMOD 5150 with a VFE Standout and G-String II noise gate up against it all day, 'errah day.

http://equipboard.com/pros/misha-mansoor

Also, you're praising one of this generations most notorious gearwhores and gearflippers, but slamming EVH for releasing "new revisions"? These new amp revisions were lower power versions (that were buyer requested and are filling a commonly requested niche in the current market) and a version with EL34 (whoah, major change)? Hell, half the people here rave about how much better the original block faced version is, and all that changed were the stock tubes from the factory.

EVH was a notorious micromanager when the Peavey 5150, Wolfgang, and pickup prototypes were being developed. He wouldn't even let them use rosewood on the necks and they had to hide those in a closet in Meridian for years until they released them as "customs" through the custom shop. The 5153 is basically the same thing as what mod companies like FJAMODs and Voodoo were doing with the 5150's, turning them into 3 channel amps with a few other minor tone tweaks. To say he wasn't involved with FMIC underplays that the amp was basically 99% the same DNA and him taking his patents and design specs to another company and saying "make this". He's still a d!ck, but that's a whole 'nother story.

I get it. Misha seems like a nice kid. I actually dig his music. I really like the amp. But c'mon man.... 






^ I'm gonna start handing these out in this thread. 

tl;dr EVH has less revisions since 1978 than Misha has had this year.


----------



## TheRileyOBrien

When do we stop being kids? Misha is in his 30's

The point being made is that EVH is Eddies company...he can profit from the sales as an owner would. Peavey presumably has to chip of a bit of each sale to Misha.

Having said that. I don't think it really factors into the overall cost very much.

If these are really made in the USA I would think it would be in Peaveys best interest to put out a video showing them being made. Should have coincided with the release. All the other made in USA amps(that I can think of) have these types of videos out there. I understand the restrictions in labeling due to the origin of components but the issue here is that they made a big claim and have not provided any proof to back it up.


----------



## Panacea224

I ended up finding an Invective at Pibull Audio and cancelled my musicians friend order, it's arriving today. I'll post some impressions after I get some play time.


----------



## technomancer

At a guess if these turn out to have had production shifted to China there were problems bringing production up at the new US plant so they went with their current go-to factory to get them out the door.



HighGain510 said:


> I’m saying the 5150 III didn’t have an artist endorsing it quite as heavily as a sig amp (aside from the obvious EVH stamp of approval) especially considering how many versions keep coming out. Misha worked directly with Peavey on a lot of the design elements to get it perfect to his tastes, whereas from what I’ve seen, the 5150 III was basically designed by Howard Kaplan and then EVH signed off on it.  I’d say it’s a less direct involvement from an artist endorsing the gear, no clue what percentage Eddie sees off each 5150 sale but I don’t know that his involvement was quite at the same level. That and we see a new revision every 6-12 months of “this is the version Eddie uses! BUY THIS!!!” to help move units.



Not so sure about that... at least with the Stealths Ed toured with and had both versions tweaked over an extended period of time before the release of both of them. Obviously the 50w are a marketing thing, but Eddie was definitely involved in refining both 100w Stealths over time.


----------



## AkiraSpectrum

godgrinder said:


> Yeah I've seen similar discussions for several times now. It's just that there were always been many rumours about Peavey on that issue (but not Mesa etc).
> 
> Back when 6505's became officially "made in China", the price didn't really drop and I doubt this one would.
> 
> As long as the QC is well enforced it should be all good though. We're all posting on here with MIC gadgets after all...



When did 6505's become officially made in China? 
If you're referring to the MH, and 6505+ Combo and Piranha these have always from the start been Chinese amps, and this is one of the reasons for their lower price-points. 
The full 6505 heads (including the +'s and 34's) are still USA made or assembled or whatever the going term is now. The 6505 2x12 combo was also USA but they recently discontinued it.


----------



## Tisca

technomancer said:


> At a guess if these turn out to have had production shifted to China there were problems bringing production up at the new US plant so they went with their current go-to factory to get them out the door.



I failed googling for more info; so Peavey has a new US factory and that's specifically for amplifier production?


----------



## Lethalharmonic

Could anyone lead me in the right direction of "Correctly" hooking the Invective up to the 2x12 Invective cabinet as well as my 4x12 Recto Cabinet.

I have very base knowledge of Series & Parallel wiring as well as Ohms Laws & it all starts getting a little over my head when you have 2 output jacks in Parallel out the back of the amp & 2 separate enclosures with Stereo Options and Multiple Ohms configutarions

Is this even possible? if so could you please lay the proper routing of cables for me!!

I am blown away with the Clarity & Punch of the Invective 2x12 (The cleans through this are bliss) but would love to retain the nice slight low end "Boom" on the Recto cab when jamming Solo!! Thanks everyone I have included Pics


----------



## Lethalharmonic

The Chassis is Made in China the circuit board tubes wiring box etc are all ASSEMBLED in USA per Head Engineer "Aubrey Fulton" for every Invective 120

I called Peavey yesterday Regarding my Invective Chassis having a "Designed & Engineered in USA Made in China" sticker on the back & Another members amp only 9 units ahead of mine in production having a "Assembled in USA" sticker on his

First rep i spoke with was a Customer Service rep who seemed a little rushed/annoyed at my questions and threw out quickly "No amps are made in Meridian anymore" after a little explanation I was put on hold while he went to speak with the head engineer I was told I would receiver a call back that he was on the phone at the moment and would call me back

To my surprise a guy named "Aubrey Fulton" called me back with a very calm and assuring voice & explained to me that the chassis circuit board tubes resistors box etc were ALL assembled in Meridian USA he asked me to send him pictures of the back of the chassis with the different stickers and gave me his personal Email. Send him over the pics and still doubted I would get a return 

Called back this morning spoke to a woman in sales she said Aubrey received the email and was still obtaining info on the matter quickly Aubrey returned my call & told me it was a 

Mix up in the factory some worker was tired etc and put the wrong sticker on the chassis & said he "doesnt want to get into the nitty gritty concerning this issue & how it happened"

He is sending the correct sticker that should be on the back of the Chassis "Assembled in USA"


----------



## TheRileyOBrien

Lethalharmonic said:


> Could anyone lead me in the right direction of "Correctly" hooking the Invective up to the 2x12 Invective cabinet as well as my 4x12 Recto Cabinet.
> 
> I have very base knowledge of Series & Parallel wiring as well as Ohms Laws & it all starts getting a little over my head when you have 2 output jacks in Parallel out the back of the amp & 2 separate enclosures with Stereo Options and Multiple Ohms configutarions
> 
> Is this even possible? if so could you please lay the proper routing of cables for me!!
> 
> I am blown away with the Clarity & Punch of the Invective 2x12 (The cleans through this are bliss) but would love to retain the nice slight low end "Boom" on the Recto cab when jamming Solo!! Thanks everyone I have included Pics



If the mesa cab has a 16 ohm(can't tell from the pic) input you can set the head to 8 ohm and connect each output to a 16 ohm input on the cabs. If the mesa only does 8 ohms you probably won't be able to use them both at the same time.


All Peavey needs to do is get their social media person to grab a quick video taking a stroll through their shop and say "here are some invectives being assembled" and post it to instagram. That would put an end to this speculation.



AkiraSpectrum said:


> When did 6505's become officially made in China?
> If you're referring to the MH, and 6505+ Combo and Piranha these have always from the start been Chinese amps, and this is one of the reasons for their lower price-points.
> The full 6505 heads (including the +'s and 34's) are still USA made or assembled or whatever the going term is now. The 6505 2x12 combo was also USA but they recently discontinued it.



All of the 6505's are made in china. Been that way for several years now.


----------



## diagrammatiks

Lethalharmonic said:


> The Chassis is Made in China the circuit board tubes wiring box etc are all ASSEMBLED in USA per Head Engineer "Aubrey Fulton" for every Invective 120
> 
> I called Peavey yesterday Regarding my Invective Chassis having a "Designed & Engineered in USA Made in China" sticker on the back & Another members amp only 9 units ahead of mine in production having a "Assembled in USA" sticker on his
> 
> First rep i spoke with was a Customer Service rep who seemed a little rushed/annoyed at my questions and threw out quickly "No amps are made in Meridian anymore" after a little explanation I was put on hold while he went to speak with the head engineer I was told I would receiver a call back that he was on the phone at the moment and would call me back
> 
> To my surprise a guy named "Aubrey Fulton" called me back with a very calm and assuring voice & explained to me that the chassis circuit board tubes resistors box etc were ALL assembled in Meridian USA he asked me to send him pictures of the back of the chassis with the different stickers and gave me his personal Email. Send him over the pics and still doubted I would get a return
> 
> Called back this morning spoke to a woman in sales she said Aubrey received the email and was still obtaining info on the matter quickly Aubrey returned my call & told me it was a
> 
> Mix up in the factory some worker was tired etc and put the wrong sticker on the chassis & said he "doesnt want to get into the nitty gritty concerning this issue & how it happened"
> 
> He is sending the correct sticker that should be on the back of the Chassis "Assembled in USA"




doesn't it seem weird that they would even have made in china stickers at the us factory?


----------



## crankyrayhanky

Lethalharmonic said:


> The Chassis is Made in China the circuit board tubes wiring box etc are all ASSEMBLED in USA per Head Engineer "Aubrey Fulton" for every Invective 120
> 
> I called Peavey yesterday Regarding my Invective Chassis having a "Designed & Engineered in USA Made in China" sticker on the back & Another members amp only 9 units ahead of mine in production having a "Assembled in USA" sticker on his
> 
> First rep i spoke with was a Customer Service rep who seemed a little rushed/annoyed at my questions and threw out quickly "No amps are made in Meridian anymore" after a little explanation I was put on hold while he went to speak with the head engineer I was told I would receiver a call back that he was on the phone at the moment and would call me back
> 
> To my surprise a guy named "Aubrey Fulton" called me back with a very calm and assuring voice & explained to me that the chassis circuit board tubes resistors box etc were ALL assembled in Meridian USA he asked me to send him pictures of the back of the chassis with the different stickers and gave me his personal Email. Send him over the pics and still doubted I would get a return
> 
> Called back this morning spoke to a woman in sales she said Aubrey received the email and was still obtaining info on the matter quickly Aubrey returned my call & told me it was a
> 
> Mix up in the factory some worker was tired etc and put the wrong sticker on the chassis & said he "doesnt want to get into the nitty gritty concerning this issue & how it happened"
> 
> He is sending the correct sticker that should be on the back of the Chassis "Assembled in USA"




Wow. Misha seems like a cool cat. But everyone at the top of Peavey....not so much.


----------



## technomancer

Tisca said:


> I failed googling for more info; so Peavey has a new US factory and that's specifically for amplifier production?



Peavey has not produced any amps in the US for several years... therefore if these are being built in the US there is a new line somewhere to build them. New line + new product = potential problems... which the delayed rollout would seem to indicate as well.

As I said it was a guess, and I'm sure this thread will devolve into fanboy / hater battles in the next day or so so I am backing away slowly


----------



## Tisca

technomancer said:


> Peavey has not produced any amps in the US for several years... therefore if these are being built in the US there is a new line somewhere to build them.



a.k.a a warehouse where they swap to new boxes and add stickers . Make no mistake; Until proven differently "assembled in US" is nothing more than a marketing ploy to justify higher prices.


----------



## prlgmnr

"Final Sticker Placement Completed on US Soil"

and even then they put the wrong stickers on


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

1.9k for a Chinese amp...


----------



## diagrammatiks

Tisca said:


> a.k.a a warehouse where they swap to new boxes and add stickers . Make no mistake; Until proven differently "assembled in US" is nothing more than a marketing ploy to justify higher prices.



not really if it's made in china they have to stamp it made in china. it can't be made in the us unless all the parts are us made and that's impossible...so assembled in us is as good as it gets. i think? what are mesas stamped with now?

That being said does a sticker that says assembled in us and made in china exist. that sticker is one sticker.


----------



## Tisca

diagrammatiks said:


> not really if it's made in china they have to stamp it made in china. it can't be made in the us unless all the parts are us made and that's impossible...so assembled in us is as good as it gets. i think? what are mesas stamped with now?
> 
> That being said does a sticker that says assembled in us and made in china exist. that sticker is one sticker.


Not quite. Local law determines what you're allowed to call what. Does it meet the requirements to be called "made in" or "assembled in" or "stickered in".


----------



## godgrinder

technomancer said:


> Peavey has not produced any amps in the US for several years... therefore if these are being built in the US there is a new line somewhere to build them.



That doesn't quite add up. If it's OEM'd by someone else in the states I doubt they can retail it at $1900, considering all these bells and whistles on the amp.

I mean yeah there're other US 100-watters out there but none of them have this many extra features...


----------



## feraledge

HighGain510 said:


> I’m saying the 5150 III didn’t have an artist endorsing it quite as heavily as a sig amp (aside from the obvious EVH stamp of approval) especially considering how many versions keep coming out. Misha worked directly with Peavey on a lot of the design elements to get it perfect to his tastes, whereas from what I’ve seen, the 5150 III was basically designed by Howard Kaplan and then EVH signed off on it.  I’d say it’s a less direct involvement from an artist endorsing the gear, no clue what percentage Eddie sees off each 5150 sale but I don’t know that his involvement was quite at the same level. That and we see a new revision every 6-12 months of “this is the version Eddie uses! BUY THIS!!!” to help move units.


Not to beat a dead horse, but both the 5153 and the Invective are/are based on what is Eddie's signature amp. I think it's a given that Misha could give you better answers about what's going on inside it and Eddie is just a hype man for things with his name, BUT he DOES use them and he is admittedly always on the tone chase. And, I agree with Eddie, each version is better. It's clear that he had little to do with the technicalities behind the amp, but his end product is time tested and his ability to improve on it after leaving Peavey says a lot.
There is, however, no question: the 5153 is Eddie's amp. So saying he's not heavily endorsing it means you haven't taken a look at the website lately where the branding couldn't be heavier.
And don't take this as a diss on Misha, but if you want to say anyone has more of a history of hyping products with catastrophic consequences, Eddie is going to inch out Misha considerably on this. He's had Wolfgangs with three companies and all still carry the shape as a solid seller. Peavey is 6505 and they sell even better than the 5153, but the EVH brand stands strong and consistently delivers.
I'm thinking Misha has learned his lesson, but we don't need to go over a past of mismatching enthusiastic "BUY THIS!!" and failed products/companies. Considering the Jackson, Peavey and Horizon Devices successes, I wish him many more. But it's ironic as all get up to talk about Eddie in a negative way when Misha has said the 3rd channel on the Invective is straight up 5150. Eddie might have not had the same level of involvement in its development, but Misha definitely did not outside of insisting on following that parameter.
In terms of the rest of the amp, yes, lots more going on, but most of these are going to live on the lead channel, just as the 5150/6505s have and do.


----------



## technomancer

godgrinder said:


> That doesn't quite add up. If it's OEM'd by someone else in the states I doubt they can retail it at $1900, considering all these bells and whistles on the amp.
> 
> I mean yeah there're other US 100-watters out there but none of them have this many extra features...



Who said anything about OEM? AFAIK Peavey still owns the same factory, they just haven't been building amps there. Regardless this is all speculation and pretty much a waste of time.


----------



## PrestoDone

just received my my invective.120 from fedex...see you guys in about a month


----------



## Deadpool_25

godgrinder said:


> That doesn't quite add up. If it's OEM'd by someone else in the states I doubt they can retail it at $1900, considering all these bells and whistles on the amp.
> 
> I mean yeah there're other US 100-watters out there but none of them have this many extra features...



Peavey is making these in their factory in Meridian, Mississippi. The one that had the MIC sticker was, reportedly, mislabeled. And that info was from high in the Peavey ranks.

So it’s not OEM’d by someone else. It’s being made on a line that has been reactivated. Peavey used to make amps in Meridian but I believe they shut down ops there a while back and moved all those functions to China. Now they seem to have reopened that plant and are making the Invective there. However parts of the Invective have to be sourced from overseas. Thus, Assembled in the USA.


----------



## Deadpool_25

PrestoDone said:


> just received my my invective.120 from fedex...see you guys in about a month



Yessss! Congrats!


----------



## bulb

Yeah just to echo that, I called Peavey up to ask what was up and apparently certain parts when sourced had to have the label on to clear US customs, but they didn't remove the sticker during assembly. Anyways the amp is indeed made in Meridian, MS.


----------



## Panacea224

My Invective arrived earlier today and I got to put in about an hour of playing time with it. Loving it so far and that is through my 2x12 with V30's. I'm strongly considering giving the matching cab a go. 

Also, thank you Misha for clarifying. My Invective states "assembled in USA" on it, but it's nice to know the story behind the few which say MIC. 

...and yes the dog shaped guitar hanging between the Juggernaut and the Merrow is my main axe.


----------



## Deadpool_25

Panacea224 said:


> My Invective arrived earlier today and I got to put in about an hour of playing time with it. Loving it so far and that is through my 2x12 with V30's. I'm strongly considering giving the matching cab a go.
> 
> Also, thank you Misha for clarifying. My Invective states "assembled in USA" on it, but it's nice to know the story behind the few which say MIC.
> 
> ...and yes the dog shaped guitar hanging between the Juggernaut and the Merrow is my main axe.



Congrats man! I love the dog guitar! I’ll need to hunt one down on Reverb!


----------



## PrestoDone

my amp has the "assembled in the usa" emblem


----------



## AkiraSpectrum

TheRileyOBrien said:


> If the mesa cab has a 16 ohm(can't tell from the pic) input you can set the head to 8 ohm and connect each output to a 16 ohm input on the cabs. If the mesa only does 8 ohms you probably won't be able to use them both at the same time.
> 
> 
> All Peavey needs to do is get their social media person to grab a quick video taking a stroll through their shop and say "here are some invectives being assembled" and post it to instagram. That would put an end to this speculation.
> 
> 
> 
> All of the 6505's are made in china. Been that way for several years now.



Holy cow, just checked and you're right! Definitely disappointing, especially since there didn't seem to be a price drop after moving production to China? Unless there was a price drop and I missed that?


----------



## Lethalharmonic

bulb said:


> Yeah just to echo that, I called Peavey up to ask what was up and apparently certain parts when sourced had to have the label on to clear US customs, but they didn't remove the sticker during assembly. Anyways the amp is indeed made in Meridian, MS.



Hey Misha, 
I’ll trade you the only mis-labeled Invective head out of the Meridian plant for your original!!! Lol Aubrey Fulton was kind enough to send me the right sticker it’s on the way!! I love the amp & cab just awesome!!


----------



## PrestoDone

feraledge said:


> Not to beat a dead horse, but both the 5153 and the Invective are/are based on what is Eddie's signature amp. I think it's a given that Misha could give you better answers about what's going on inside it and Eddie is just a hype man for things with his name, BUT he DOES use them and he is admittedly always on the tone chase. And, I agree with Eddie, each version is better. It's clear that he had little to do with the technicalities behind the amp, but his end product is time tested and his ability to improve on it after leaving Peavey says a lot.
> There is, however, no question: the 5153 is Eddie's amp. So saying he's not heavily endorsing it means you haven't taken a look at the website lately where the branding couldn't be heavier.
> And don't take this as a diss on Misha, but if you want to say anyone has more of a history of hyping products with catastrophic consequences, Eddie is going to inch out Misha considerably on this. He's had Wolfgangs with three companies and all still carry the shape as a solid seller. Peavey is 6505 and they sell even better than the 5153, but the EVH brand stands strong and consistently delivers.
> I'm thinking Misha has learned his lesson, but we don't need to go over a past of mismatching enthusiastic "BUY THIS!!" and failed products/companies. Considering the Jackson, Peavey and Horizon Devices successes, I wish him many more. But it's ironic as all get up to talk about Eddie in a negative way when Misha has said the 3rd channel on the Invective is straight up 5150. Eddie might have not had the same level of involvement in its development, but Misha definitely did not outside of insisting on following that parameter.
> In terms of the rest of the amp, yes, lots more going on, but most of these are going to live on the lead channel, just as the 5150/6505s have and do.



you do know, as misha has said before, the lead channel is a reworked version of the 5150 block letter...



AkiraSpectrum said:


> Holy cow, just checked and you're right! Definitely disappointing, especially since there didn't seem to be a price drop after moving production to China? Unless there was a price drop and I missed that?



i hope you are not talking about the invective...just got my invective abd it is assembled in the usa


----------



## AkiraSpectrum

PrestoDone said:


> i hope you are not talking about the invective...just got my invective abd it is assembled in the usa



Nope, referring to the 6505 series. I didn't realize that they recently changed all of the 6505 series to being made in China.


----------



## feraledge

PrestoDone said:


> you do know, as misha has said before, the lead channel is a reworked version of the 5150 block letter...


Actually I thought he said in some later videos that it was pretty straight block letter, I must have misremembered or misheard it. My bad. 
Either way, amend my statement from straight 5150 to tweaked 5150, point still stands.


----------



## Deadpool_25

Panacea224 said:


> My Invective arrived earlier today and I got to put in about an hour of playing time with it. Loving it so far and that is through my 2x12 with V30's. I'm strongly considering giving the matching cab a go.
> 
> Also, thank you Misha for clarifying. My Invective states "assembled in USA" on it, but it's nice to know the story behind the few which say MIC.
> 
> ...and yes the dog shaped guitar hanging between the Juggernaut and the Merrow is my main axe.



Photobucket is dumb. I could see your pics earlier.


----------



## diagrammatiks

AkiraSpectrum said:


> Nope, referring to the 6505 series. I didn't realize that they recently changed all of the 6505 series to being made in China.


this happened a while ago tho.


----------



## bulb

diagrammatiks said:


> this happened a while ago tho.



Not only did the price go down when the 6505 moved to China, but Peavey told me that the quality actually didn’t suffer for it either.


----------



## Lethalharmonic

bulb said:


> Not only did the price go down when the 6505 moved to China, but Peavey told me that the quality actually didn’t suffer for it either.



I have been running the Invective gate tone at 5 & level at 10 for my lead channel and have been very pleased with the results "tightens things up nice and really cuts" I am curious to how the Precision Drive compares!?

Also I am still hearing floor noise from the Invective with the Input gate on witch I assume is normal I sold my Decimator G string 2 a while back.... Could the precision drive be ran in front of the Invective as well as in the loop to kill the Noise Floor Static????

Thanks!!!!


----------



## Slam5150

The gate doesn’t have a tone or level adjustment. That’s the onboard boost and there should be no reason to run it at 10 on the lead channel. 

Have you adjusted the gate “threshold”?



Lethalharmonic said:


> I have been running the Invective gate tone at 5 & level at 10 for my lead channel and have been very pleased with the results "tightens things up nice and really cuts" I am curious to how the Precision Drive compares!?
> 
> Also I am still hearing floor noise from the Invective with the Input gate on witch I assume is normal I sold my Decimator G string 2 a while back.... Could the precision drive be ran in front of the Invective as well as in the loop to kill the Noise Floor Static????
> 
> Thanks!!!!


----------



## narad

diagrammatiks said:


> this happened a while ago tho.



I checked the 6505 prices at musiciansfriend on wayback machine. Seems sometime between 2015 and 2016 they dropped the price $100, and removed the "Made in America" that was always at the end of the description. It was replaced with "A classic voice in American rock" that had previously been elsewhere 

It's this kind of shady stuff -- proudly stamping Made in American on everything, and when they move overseas suddenly it becomes difficult to find the country of origin. Tsk Tsk.


----------



## Lethalharmonic

Slam5150 said:


> The gate doesn’t have a tone or level adjustment. That’s the onboard boost and there should be no reason to run it at 10 on the lead channel.
> 
> Have you adjusted the gate “threshold”?



My mistake on wording I have the “Boost” tone set to 5 and the level 10 

The Inpute gate I activate and slowly turn up until things are tight 

I noticed the Input gate does not silence that humming/buzzing noise floor that get more audible with increased master volume pre gain and post gain as running a noise gate in the loop and in front of the Amp creates nearly complete silence


----------



## TedEH

bulb said:


> Peavey told me that the quality actually didn’t suffer for it


Not to sound funny, but would they have admitted if the opposite was really true? 

"Yeah, our products are crap quality now." 

Mostly kidding.


----------



## Unleash The Fury

Lethalharmonic said:


> My mistake on wording I have the “Boost” tone set to 5 and the level 10
> 
> The Inpute gate I activate and slowly turn up until things are tight
> 
> I noticed the Input gate does not silence that humming/buzzing noise floor that get more audible with increased master volume pre gain and post gain as running a noise gate in the loop and in front of the Amp creates nearly complete silence



So the built in noisegate is not on par with a noise gate pedal?


----------



## 7 Stringer

Unleash The Fury said:


> So the built in noisegate is not on par with a noise gate pedal?



It is an input gate, will not remove hiss from the preamp stage. It will help reduce the noise and static that comes before the amp and acts as a slammer gate, to get that staccato djent sound, witch is fuc**** awesome!!!!!!


----------



## Tisca

PrestoDone said:


> just received my my invective.120 from fedex...see you guys in about a month


This guy gets it. Actually playing gear instead of talking about it online. I on the other hand will continue shitposting here.



bulb said:


> Not only did the price go down when the 6505 moved to China, but Peavey told me that the quality actually didn’t suffer for it either.



So same quality, yet they decide to "manufacture" Invective in the states? They didn't think customers would want more affordable amps? @bulb you have contacts at Peavey, could you tell them to post photos of the production line because the Internet doesn't believe them which is hurting sales.


----------



## crankyrayhanky

+1^


----------



## Deadpool_25

Slam5150 said:


> The gate doesn’t have a tone or level adjustment. That’s the onboard boost and there should be no reason to run it at 10 on the lead channel.
> 
> Have you adjusted the gate “threshold”?



Yeah, the way the amp is labeled it's easy to see where the confusion comes from. GATE is in bold and it almost looks like the boost is part of that section.

Anyway, yeah, I have that boost at 5, but while it's easy to say there's no reason to run it at 10 on the lead channel, one could just as easily say there's no reason NOT to run it at 10 lol. If it sounds good, rock out to it.


----------



## Deadpool_25

Tisca said:


> This guy gets it. Actually playing gear instead of talking about it online. I on the other hand will continue shitposting here.
> 
> 
> 
> So same quality, yet they decide to "manufacture" Invective in the states? They didn't think customers would want more affordable amps? @bulb you have contacts at Peavey, could you tell them to post photos of the production line because the Internet doesn't believe them which is hurting sales.




Lol @ shitposting.

You're saying "the internet" doesn't believe them that the Invective is being made in MS? Interesting. I mean I understand curiosity about just exactly what is done in the MS plant to even call it Assembled in the USA, but I wouldn't think Peavey would straight up lie about it. Would be too easy for a leak or for someone to just straight up disprove it. Meh. F*** it. Whatever. I'm going back to practicing.


----------



## beavis2306

Tisca said:


> This guy gets it.





Deadpool_25 said:


> Meh. F*** it. Whatever.



_This _guy get's it


----------



## Lethalharmonic

Deadpool_25 said:


> Lol @ shitposting.
> 
> You're saying "the internet" doesn't believe them that the Invective is being made in MS? Interesting. I mean I understand curiosity about just exactly what is done in the MS plant to even call it Assembled in the USA, but I wouldn't think Peavey would straight up lie about it. Would be too easy for a leak or for someone to just straight up disprove it. Meh. F*** it. Whatever. I'm going back to practicing.



So I understand that the metal "Chassis" was made in China & had to have a "Designed and Engineered in U.S.A Made in China" sticker on it to clear US Customs.

Now that Aubrey Fulton Head engineer at Peavey is sending me my "Assembled in USA" sticker I am wondering to everyone else who has their Invectives can you feel a slight bump under your sticker because you would think at the Plant in Meridian instead of going through the work of taking every single Made in China sticker off the back of the chassis after the circuit board tubes slid into box etc was all finished the guy at the end of the line would slap on the serial number sticker and Smack that "Assembled in USA" sticker right over the China one!!!


----------



## Deadpool_25

Lethalharmonic said:


> ...because you would think at the Plant in Meridian instead of going through the work of taking every single Made in China sticker off the back of the chassis after the circuit board tubes slid into box etc was all finished the guy at the end of the line would slap on the serial number sticker and Smack that "Assembled in USA" sticker right over the China one!!!



I think that would lead to exactly the kind of speculation that we are seeing now. It’s amazing what one little mistake can do to light and fuel the fires. And equally amazing how difficult those fires are to extinguish.

P.S. I lied...Time to binge on Stranger Things.


----------



## feraledge

Lethalharmonic said:


> View attachment 56927


If I saw that sticker on anything, I'd think there's no way someone went through the process of designing and manufacturing a product like this and then landed on THAT sticker to round it out.


----------



## Lethalharmonic

Lol yea I was pretty let down when I seen that sticker on the back of my head then Deadpool’s amp being 9 units ahead of mine had the assembled in USA sticker on it then after 3 calls to Peavey one rep telling me no amps are made in meridian and a bunch of my time he was kind enough to send me a sticker & I still don’t know what to believe


----------



## Tisca

Deadpool_25 said:


> I wouldn't think Peavey would straight up lie about it.


It's in Peavey's financial interest to have people think it's made/assembled in the US. If they are made or Peavey is lying is what we're trying to find out. But I do know that there's no reason why they would suddenly make amps in the US after moving production to China. It does not add up. I can understand that you want to believe them because you already bought one.


----------



## Tisca

Lethalharmonic said:


> ...then after 3 calls to Peavey one rep telling me no amps are made in meridian and a bunch of my time he was kind enough to send me a sticker & I still don’t know what to believe



This is a long thread and I'm pretty sure I read that the thing about "Assembled in the US" was only because law states that they're not allowed to call it "made in the US" because Chinese parts exceed a certain threshold. Now who said this I don't remember, so could be bad information but these types of laws are a thing. 
Now someone at Peavey you reached perhaps spilled the beans by mistake.


----------



## Lethalharmonic

Tisca said:


> It's in Peavey's financial interest to have people think it's made/assembled in the US. If they are made or Peavey is lying is what we're trying to find out. But I do know that there's no reason why they would suddenly make amps in the US after moving production to China. It does not add up. I can understand that you want to believe them because you already bought one.



Yeah I’m seriously on the edge of just returning the whole amp and cab strictly over this issue as I did when I ordered a new 6505+ last year only to see Made in China on the box! Paul Reed looking damn good on YouTube in his factory opening amps and old vids of Misha being blown away by the archon really getting too me knew I shoulda followed my gut instinct earlier this year screw it I’ll just run an AXE 8 in 4 cable with it idk I’m just gonna play the heck outta this thing and really see where it takes me


----------



## Tisca

> *Assembled in USA Claims*
> A product that includes foreign components may be called "Assembled in USA" without qualification when its principal assembly takes place in the U.S. and the assembly is substantial. For the "assembly" claim to be valid, the product’s last "substantial transformation" also should have occurred in the U.S. That’s why a "screwdriver" assembly in the U.S. of foreign components into a final product at the end of the manufacturing process doesn’t usually qualify for the "Assembled in USA" claim.


https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/complying-made-usa-standard

Notice, the assembly must be "substantial".


EDIT: "Designed and engineered in X, Made in Y" part you can read up on under "
U.S. origin claims for specific processes or parts"


----------



## bulb

Lethalharmonic said:


> Yeah I’m seriously on the edge of just returning the whole amp and cab strictly over this issue as I did when I ordered a new 6505+ last year only to see Made in China on the box! Paul Reed looking damn good on YouTube in his factory opening amps and old vids of Misha being blown away by the archon really getting too me knew I shoulda followed my gut instinct earlier this year screw it I’ll just run an AXE 8 in 4 cable with it idk I’m just gonna play the heck outta this thing and really see where it takes me



Wait, you are saying you want to return the amp and cab because you believe Peavey is lying about the amp being made in Meridian?

Also I believe the Archon is made in China. So effectively you would be trading a USA amp for a Chinese one hahah.


----------



## USMarine75

Lethalharmonic said:


> Yeah I’m seriously on the edge of just returning the whole amp and cab strictly over this issue as I did when I ordered a new 6505+ last year only to see Made in China on the box! Paul Reed looking damn good on YouTube in his factory opening amps and old vids of Misha being blown away by the archon really getting too me knew I shoulda followed my gut instinct earlier this year screw it I’ll just run an AXE 8 in 4 cable with it idk I’m just gonna play the heck outta this thing and really see where it takes me



Cool story bro... When you get the PRS Archon, can you also get some periods and commas for your sentences?


----------



## mnemonic

bulb said:


> Also I believe the Archon is made in China. So effectively you would be trading a USA amp for a Chinese one hahah.



The amps on Google images say "assembled in USA" on the bottom left of the chassis.


----------



## lewis

god this argument is pathetic

"Oh noes....the amp was made somewhere I dont want"

who gives a fuck?. if it sounds amazing and the features all work, just enjoy the purchase dear god!.

I swear so many on here invent gripes to have just "because".
So there are people here who had the money to afford an invective and matching cab, yet they are still complaining and want to return it or something?. purely because it might have been built in china?

honestly this world is getting so pathetic.


----------



## diagrammatiks

lewis said:


> god this argument is pathetic
> 
> "Oh noes....the amp was made somewhere I dont want"
> 
> who gives a fuck?. if it sounds amazing and the features all work, just enjoy the purchase dear god!.
> 
> I swear so many on here invent gripes to have just "because".
> So there are people here who had the money to afford an invective and matching cab, yet they are still complaining and want to return it or something?. purely because it might have been built in china?
> 
> honestly this world is getting so pathetic.



it's not pathetic to want companies to be honest. 1800 is really good for a usa made amp...not that great for a chinese amp...although I'm totally down with the randall 667. 

But ya, honesty. Just say where it's actually made and show some factory photos. That's not too much to ask. 

That's why I really put off buying something from say jericho guitars...which doesn't say anywhere where the guitars are actually made on their website. But i've got no problem having balagauer do a build for me. Transparency is good.


----------



## prlgmnr

lewis said:


> god this argument is pathetic
> 
> "Oh noes....the amp was made somewhere I dont want"
> 
> who gives a fuck?. if it sounds amazing and the features all work, just enjoy the purchase dear god!.
> 
> I swear so many on here invent gripes to have just "because".
> So there are people here who had the money to afford an invective and matching cab, yet they are still complaining and want to return it or something?. purely because it might have been built in china?
> 
> honestly this world is getting so pathetic.


I feel like the attitude that as long as you like something, it's fine and shouldn't be subject to any scrutiny whatsoever might be more of a contribution to the current pathetic state of the world than anything.


----------



## lewis

prlgmnr said:


> I feel like the attitude that as long as you like something, it's fine and shouldn't be subject to any scrutiny whatsoever might be more of a contribution to the current pathetic state of the world than anything.



how is that what is happening here?>

Peavey have said on the amp itself exactly the situations with USA, and China. There is no deception right?.
Its endorsed and co designed by one of the worlds most known modern metal players.
There is no deception, there clearly wont be any loss of standards, as confirmed by Bulb.

this BS notion of "china = garbage" needs to stop.
I understand people moaning at me in another thread about the counterfeit part of China which is fair enough to that argument, but interms of massive companies using China factories to assemble their products, just should not be moaned about anymore.
Its dumb imo.
Every company and their dog mostly uses China for assembly?.

Especially when people in here have bought the amp, got it home, seen it sounds and works great but that all becomes irrelevant if they read the word "China" on it somewhere?

its a peavey ffs not a Bugera.


----------



## prlgmnr

lewis said:


> Peavey have said on the amp itself exactly the situations with USA, and China. There is no deception right?.



They've said it clearly on some of the amps, and said a different thing clearly on some other ones, and then said yet another thing on the phone only to later say ANOTHER different thing on the phone, it's hardly a model of clarity.



lewis said:


> There is no deception, there clearly wont be any loss of standards



I do agree with you there,


----------



## technomancer

This is getting ridiculous, especially since at this point most of the debate is one guy posting the same thing over and over to stir shit. Honestly if you are worried about this, wait until the amp shows up on European stores and see what it says. The EU laws are MUCH stricter than anything in the US on this.

Friedman went through this whole thing because the footswitches he uses are Made in China 



bulb said:


> Also I believe the Archon is made in China. So effectively you would be trading a USA amp for a Chinese one hahah.



Nope, none of the Archons are made in China. IIRC the only non-USA PRS amps were the SE series and they were clearly marked with the country of origin.


----------



## FitRocker33

A good portion of the reason I prefer to buy American made is because it represents American jobs being used. We have a serious issue with outsourcing everything and coming up with new ways to take job positions from working class Americans in the name of saving pennies on the dollar.

It USED to be that things were sent overseas to be priced less expensive than the American made, and often superiorly built counterparts, but I saw an an Indonesian built ibby at Sam ash the other day for around 1500, and evh 5150III heads are made in Mexico but still cost close to 2k, so clearly that concept of pricing went out the window a long time ago.

I'm only in my 30's but I remember when Mexican strats were 400 bucks or so brand new.


----------



## narad

lewis said:


> There is no deception, there clearly wont be any loss of standards, as confirmed by Bulb.
> 
> this BS notion of "china = garbage" needs to stop.
> I understand people moaning at me in another thread about the counterfeit part of China which is fair enough to that argument, but interms of massive companies using China factories to assemble their products, just should not be moaned about anymore.
> Its dumb imo.
> Every company and their dog mostly uses China for assembly?.



In a capitalist society the idea of "voting with your dollar" is supposed to be an important one. If you disagree with general trends in the country -- like the loss of jobs and the destruction of small town communities due to outsourcing -- then it's important to know whether the products you're buying are outsourced or not. 

I don't want to get into the speculation about the amp, but it should be pretty simple to understand why someone would want to know the origin of the product in a way that goes well beyond "china == garbage" mentality, or any hands-on experience with the amp.

FWIW, none of the companies I buy amps from assemble in China so I don't get the "every company does it" argument.


----------



## lewis

narad said:


> In a capitalist society the idea of "voting with your dollar" is supposed to be an important one. If you disagree with general trends in the country -- like the loss of jobs and the destruction of small town communities due to outsourcing -- then it's important to know whether the products you're buying are outsourced or not.
> 
> I don't want to get into the speculation about the amp, but it should be pretty simple to understand why someone would want to know the origin of the product in a way that goes well beyond "china == garbage" mentality, or any hands-on experience with the amp.
> 
> FWIW, none of the companies I buy amps from assemble in China so I don't get the "*every company does it*" argument.



wasnt talking specifically about Amp builders. Meant any business in general seems to outsource to Asia.
Its all you hear about these days.


----------



## mnemonic

Plenty of businesses still make things in first world countries, but it's also generally not cheap stuff.

Almost every industry, there is nicer stuff you can get that is made in the USA, or UK, or whatever.

Those companies have to seperate themselves from competition somehow, and if it's gonna be on price, someone outsourcing to cheap labor in a less developed country will almost always be able to beat them.


----------



## JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo

FitRocker33 said:


> It USED to be that things were sent overseas to be priced less expensive than the American made, and often superiorly built counterparts, but I saw an an Indonesian built ibby at Sam ash the other day for around 1500, and evh 5150III heads are made in Mexico but still cost close to 2k, so clearly that concept of pricing went out the window a long time ago.



But how can company heads have nice bonuses if they don't charge exorbitant prices?

You're totally right. Outsourcing doesn't seem to save money anymore. But then again, quality is definitely way better than it used to be.


----------



## bulb

This speculation is silly because some of you guys are insinuating that Peavey is lying about where they are making the amp.

I normally wouldn’t do this, but just to nip this in the bud I’ll ask them to send a pic of the Meridian assembly line. 

In the meantime to those who have the amp, just enjoy it. If this whole thing is too much for you, then honestly just return it, as there’s are a lot of people who are trying to get this amp. I’m willing to bet that they will enjoy it more as well, largely due to the fact that they won’t know or care that this amp happens to be made in Meridian, MS.


----------



## bulb

OliOliver said:


> But how can company heads have nice bonuses if they don't charge exorbitant prices?
> 
> You're totally right. Outsourcing doesn't seem to save money anymore. But then again, quality is definitely way better than it used to be.



One thing a lot of people don’t realize is that a lot of parts that are used in most electronics, including amps, are just not made in the US. So this means that companies have to outsource.


----------



## katsumura78

I’ll get one but under one condition... you release a version in white tolex like the one you guys had on tour  it looks flipping sweet in white.


----------



## technomancer

bulb said:


> One thing a lot of people don’t realize is that a lot of parts that are used in most electronics, including amps, are just not made in the US. So this means that companies have to outsource.



Yep. The majority of electronics components are simply not manufactured in the US anymore at all. There simply is no US source for them.


----------



## lewis

bulb said:


> This speculation is silly because some of you guys are insinuating that Peavey is lying about where they are making the amp.
> 
> I normally wouldn’t do this, but just to nip this in the bud I’ll ask them to send a pic of the Meridian assembly line.
> 
> *In the meantime to those who have the amp, just enjoy it*. If this whole thing is too much for you, then honestly just return it, as there’s are a lot of people who are trying to get this amp. I’m willing to bet that they will enjoy it more as well, largely due to the fact that they won’t know or care that this amp happens to be made in Meridian, MS.


/thread

well said


----------



## JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo

bulb said:


> One thing a lot of people don’t realize is that a lot of parts that are used in most electronics, including amps, are just not made in the US. So this means that companies have to outsource.



Exactly. It just makes sense. I can see _why _people are apprehensive of buying stuff built in the cheap countries (working conditions, quality etc), but I've now owned several guitars made in what's considered "cheap" countries (paying a substantial price for them), and they've been great quality. My Schecter KM6 was an incredible guitar that I really regret selling on.

All this is besides the point anyway. If it sounds great and feels great, then what's the big deal? I don't see any "lie" being told here. Yeah, the price is high, but a lot of that is probably due to the fact it's a brand new amp. They probably don't have a rolling production on it like their flagship amps, therefore don't have the production at it's most efficient, therefore bigger overhead.


----------



## Deadpool_25

Tisca said:


> It's in Peavey's financial interest to have people think it's made/assembled in the US. If they are made or Peavey is lying is what we're trying to find out. But I do know that there's no reason why they would suddenly make amps in the US after moving production to China. It does not add up. I can understand that you want to believe them because you already bought one.



No, I actually don’t care if it’s made in the US. That’s never been a huge selling point of this amp for me. It’s nice but I’m far to used to having a majority of stuff I buy made in cheaper labor markets.

My point is that a lie in this case does more harm to Peavey than good. Especially since a lie here would be far too easily exposed. The 6505 has been made overseas for a while. They could’ve made the Invective in the same place, labeled it the same as the 6505, and never used “Made in” as a selling point. Then it wouldn’t have even been a conversation topic.

There are parts made overseas and the ge amp is assembled in the US. If there’s curiosity about exactly what that assembly consists of, I guess that’s understandable (personally I don’t care) but to think they’re flat out lying and that that would in any way be in their best interests seems ridiculous.


----------



## Deadpool_25

bulb said:


> In the meantime to those who have the amp, just enjoy it. If this whole thing is too much for you, then honestly just return it, as there’s are a lot of people who are trying to get this amp. I’m willing to bet that they will enjoy it more as well, largely due to the fact that they won’t know or care that this amp happens to be made in Meridian, MS.



Word. As I stated, I don’t care anyway.

What I do care about is whether I or not I like the amp. And I love it.


----------



## Tisca

prlgmnr said:


> I feel like the attitude that as long as you like something, it's fine and shouldn't be subject to any scrutiny whatsoever might be more of a contribution to the current pathetic state of the world than anything.


Textbook fanboyism, which is different from fandom.



lewis said:


> this BS notion of "china = garbage" needs to stop.


You're completely missing the point and no one has said that. Personally I'd prefer it was 100% MIC for price's sake. This amp doesn't have a MIC price tag. There's two outcomes here; If it turns out it in fact is mostly US made, I'm going to be disappointed they didn't go the MIC route that saves the customer's money. If it turns out it's mostly/all MIC I'm also going to be disappointed that it doesn't have a MIC price tag (and that they lied). Now if they'd actually put a MIC price on a MIC product is another discussion. The 6505 got only about 100€ cheaper when it started saying MIC.


----------



## lewis

Tisca said:


> Textbook fanboyism, which is different from fandom.
> 
> 
> You're completely missing the point and no one has said that. Personally I'd prefer it was 100% MIC for price's sake. This amp doesn't have a MIC price tag. There's two outcomes here; If it turns out it in fact is mostly US made, I'm going to be disappointed they didn't go the MIC route that saves the customer's money. If it turns out it's mostly/all MIC I'm also going to be disappointed that it doesn't have a MIC price tag (and that they lied). Now if they'd actually put a MIC price on a MIC product is another discussion. The 6505 got only about 100€ cheaper when it started saying MIC.


your missing my point.

who actually gives this much of a fuck when you have a brand new, modern high gain amp sitting infront of you that has this many features and sounds this killer?.

thinking this in depth about prices vs build locations and whats justified what isnt, is just dumb.

I bet 98% of the electronic stuff in my life that I enjoy immensely, ive never thought for a second "Where is this bought?. Because the price seems like it should not be made in a certain country, and if it is im going to write a stern letter.
to whom it may concern"

like games consoles, TV,s, phones etc.
You pay the price and enjoy it.
Does anyone here ever open up their LED Tv and too see where it was made?


----------



## Tisca

> who actually gives this much of a fuck



No one is talking about you and your feelings, why do you get so defensive. If you don't care, don't comment. Several pages of comments from people who do care. You're talking about apples while we are talking about oranges.


----------



## Lethalharmonic

bulb said:


> This speculation is silly because some of you guys are insinuating that Peavey is lying about where they are making the amp.
> 
> I normally wouldn’t do this, but just to nip this in the bud I’ll ask them to send a pic of the Meridian assembly line.
> 
> In the meantime to those who have the amp, just enjoy it. If this whole thing is too much for you, then honestly just return it, as there’s are a lot of people who are trying to get this amp. I’m willing to bet that they will enjoy it more as well, largely due to the fact that they won’t know or care that this amp happens to be made in Meridian, MS.



Thank you!!, I look forward to seeing the picture of the Meridian assembly line. I never meant for this to get blown out of proportion on this thread. I stated when I first posted the pics "I hate to do this" I simply wanted to do my best to put the whole thing to rest.


After 5 days with the head and matching Cabinet, I keep walking away from every session with nothing but a smile on my face. In my opinion the Invective 120 & the matching 2x12 cabinet is the single best culmination of the 5150 tone you can hear in person! You have to experience it!


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

lewis said:


> your missing my point.
> 
> who actually gives this much of a fuck when you have a brand new, modern high gain amp sitting infront of you that has this many features and sounds this killer?.
> 
> thinking this in depth about prices vs build locations and whats justified what isnt, is just dumb.
> 
> I bet 98% of the electronic stuff in my life that I enjoy immensely, ive never thought for a second "Where is this bought?. Because the price seems like it should not be made in a certain country, and if it is im going to write a stern letter.
> to whom it may concern"
> 
> like games consoles, TV,s, phones etc.
> You pay the price and enjoy it.
> Does anyone here ever open up their LED Tv and too see where it was made?


I think a lot of people would care if they paid 1.9k for an amp they thought was going to be made in the USA only for there to be some doubts that it wasn't. What are you even going on about?


----------



## lewis

Spaced Out Ace said:


> I think a lot of people would care if they paid 1.9k for an amp they thought was going to be made in the USA only for there to be some doubts that it wasn't. What are you even going on about?


oh, I must have the complete wrong end of the stick?.

Didnt the amps have on them where they were built/assembled?

if not or thats been proven to be lies, then yeah I understand that situation then. Is that the case?

Thats pretty shit if so.


----------



## narad

Lethalharmonic said:


> In my opinion the Invective 120 & the matching 2x12 cabinet is the single best culmination of the 5150 tone you can hear in person!



You had my curiosity, now you have my_ attention_.


----------



## PrestoDone

Some of you guys are funny...the sticker clearly states assembled in the usa...im sure the internal parts, for the most part, are chinese...as long as the pcb was soldered here you should be ok. just enjoy it and have fun. if you think there is a "conspiracy" fro. peavey then return/cancel your amp order...give it some time and you will see the doubters going back to getting one. had it since thursday afternoon and i can honestly say build , tone, and price tag are all killer for this amp. just my two cents. @bulb


----------



## Tisca

lewis said:


> oh, I must have the complete wrong end of the stick?.
> 
> Didnt the amps have on them where they were built/assembled?
> 
> if not or thats been proven to be lies, then yeah I understand that situation then. Is that the case?
> 
> Thats pretty shit if so.



Story is something like this: around NAMM it was stated they were made in USA. Then while waiting for release it turned to Assembled in USA. Now we have stickers saying on the actual sold amps both assembled in the USA and Made in China. Someone in this thread was told by a Peavey rep that no amps are made in the USA anymore. Every piece of evidence right now is saying totally not made in the USA. Let's hope Misha comes through so we can stop arguing.


----------



## beavis2306

Has anyone got any idea how this goes with a Mesa OS cab yet? Is it a dark sounding amp and is the fact that the matching cab uses a plain V30 and a H75 intended to add the top end sparkle. Would the comparatively rolled-off top end of the Mesa V30s be too much? I suppose people use 5150s and Mesa cabs all the time...


----------



## FitRocker33

If I ever take a trip to china someday I fully expect the food I eat there to be grown, cooked and prepared in Miami Florida. We're not the only ones who can outsource!


----------



## bulb

PrestoDone said:


> Some of you guys are funny...the sticker clearly states assembled in the usa...im sure the internal parts, for the most part, are chinese...as long as the pcb was soldered here you should be ok. just enjoy it and have fun. if you think there is a "conspiracy" fro. peavey then return/cancel your amp order...give it some time and you will see the doubters going back to getting one. had it since thursday afternoon and i can honestly say build , tone, and price tag are all killer for this amp. just my two cents. @bulb



Dude thats awesome! I’m glad you early adopters are digging it! I know the wait was a lot longer than we all expected, so thanks for your patience and support!


----------



## Deadpool_25

bulb said:


> Dude thats awesome! I’m glad you early adopters are digging it! I know the wait was a lot longer than we all expected, so thanks for your patience and support!



Yeah man. Definitely glad I was patient and waited. It’s WELL worth it. Right now I’m running it in stereo through some Strymon stuff with the stereo Invective’s signal going to the TC-50’s power section. Sounds absolutely stunning. Thanks for putting such an amazing clean channel on a great high-gain amp.


----------



## Unleash The Fury

FitRocker33 said:


> If I ever take a trip to china someday I fully expect the food I eat there to be grown, cooked and prepared in Miami Florida. We're not the only ones who can outsource!



Yeah but China is smart enough to have chinese workers in Florida doing all that work. They wouldnt be outsourcing to American workers, they would just send their own citizens to do the work on American soil! Lol


----------



## 7 Stringer

I heard from someone that the amp is not super loud??? Headroom is limited he said. That seems weird.

Anybody notice this?


----------



## penguin_316

You have to admire the irony of American consumers boycotting foreign goods and services. Most have little to no knowledge as to where, when, and how their goods come into existence.

Before you respond, go ahead and fire up that Chinese computer on your Chinese desk and get comfortable in that Chinese gaming chair. Continue ad nauseum....

This isn't the early 1900s anymore, next to nothing is 100% made and assembled in America. Deal with it.

I can't wait to try it, as soon as it's readily available lol.


----------



## Slam5150

Why are there no new vids up of this thing yet??


----------



## diagrammatiks

penguin_316 said:


> You have to admire the irony of American consumers boycotting foreign goods and services. Most have little to no knowledge as to where, when, and how their goods come into existence.
> 
> Before you respond, go ahead and fire up that Chinese computer on your Chinese desk and get comfortable in that Chinese gaming chair. Continue ad nauseum....
> 
> This isn't the early 1900s anymore, next to nothing is 100% made and assembled in America. Deal with it.
> 
> I can't wait to try it, as soon as it's readily available lol.



gotta admire the knee jerk reaction of people not reading threads.

nobody is boycotting the amp. people are just very confused about a very confusing sticker.


----------



## penguin_316

I did read through it. People are mad about a companies claims about the construction of the amp and subsequent sticker usage. Some people can complain about anything, I swear.

This isn't a Peaveygate situation, you can all stop the witch hunt. You paid more for the amp due to the endorsee. Don't act like you bought it based on the premise it was a 100% crafted piece of American art.

Go ahead and return all of your goods made in China, have fun with that haha.


----------



## mnemonic

Separate from this amp, but why do some people get so offended that some others would prefer first world made goods over Chinese-made goods? 

When I'm looking to buy a new thing, and there is a US or UK made version, I'll tend to go for that version over the import, assuming it's affordable to me. 

That isn't always the case though and back in college I was too poor to do this. Luckily I'm not now though. 

My phone and computer are Chinese made, but to my knowledge there aren't any comparable first world products I could have bought. But for amps, guitars, clothes, etc. there are, or at least options that are less reliant on exploiting low wage workers in foreign counties.


----------



## diagrammatiks

mnemonic said:


> Separate from this amp, but why do some people get so offended that some others would prefer first world made goods over Chinese-made goods?
> 
> When I'm looking to buy a new thing, and there is a US or UK made version, I'll tend to go for that version over the import, assuming it's affordable to me.
> 
> That isn't always the case though and back in college I was too poor to do this. Luckily I'm not now though.
> 
> My phone and computer are Chinese made, but to my knowledge there aren't any comparable first world products I could have bought. But for amps, guitars, clothes, etc. there are, or at least options that are less reliant on exploiting low wage workers in foreign counties.



It’s a mystery. Or when people just go apeshit when you think things should be clearly labeled. 

My phones and computers are clearly labeled made in china.


----------



## 7 Stringer

This thread is getting boring man, lets concentrate on the amp here.

Anybody notice the amp having limited headroom?


----------



## diagrammatiks

That seems like it would be a bias or tube issue on some units since no one here who has one has reported a volume issue


----------



## 7 Stringer

diagrammatiks said:


> That seems like it would be a bias or tube issue on some units since no one here who has one has reported a volume issue



Not a volume issue really, but just less volume than a 6505+ he compared it too.

I was just curious.


----------



## Deadpool_25

7 Stringer said:


> This thread is getting boring man, lets concentrate on the amp here.
> 
> Anybody notice the amp having limited headroom?



Absolutely not. It gets loud as hell. I actually had an issue where I was getting much less volume than I expected. Took like 5 minutes to narrow it down to a bad cable. I will fire it up and take an SPL reading. Any particular channels/settings you’re curious about?


----------



## Deadpool_25

Slam5150 said:


> Why are there no new vids up of this thing yet??



I suspect because the first ones off the lines actually went to regular consumers who have been waiting for them for so long. Peavey probably could have sent a bunch out to the YouTube demo regulars instead, and it might’ve been better for short term sales if they had, but I would’ve been slightly annoyed at seeing them in those guys’ hands first. With that said it would’ve been completely understandable from a business standpoint.


----------



## PrestoDone

my invective.120 gets as loud as my 5150 II . not sure why some are reporting headroom issues.


----------



## PrestoDone

if you are having headroom issues try swapping out each 6l6 power amp tube with another 6l6 tube. that way you can narrow it down to a specific tube


----------



## Paul McAleer

You dudes gotta start posting more clips of this thing


----------



## KailM

Paul McAleer said:


> You dudes gotta start posting more clips of this thing



Or send the amp to me and I'll do some demos.


----------



## 7 Stringer

Deadpool_25 said:


> Absolutely not. It gets loud as hell. I actually had an issue where I was getting much less volume than I expected. Took like 5 minutes to narrow it down to a bad cable. I will fire it up and take an SPL reading. Any particular channels/settings you’re curious about?



Cool and glad to hear, i was just wondering cause a guy who has one told me that, i just wanted another opinion on the matter, wich seems non existant.

Getting very anxious to get that thing!!


----------



## 7 Stringer

PrestoDone said:


> if you are having headroom issues try swapping out each 6l6 power amp tube with another 6l6 tube. that way you can narrow it down to a specific tube




All good, i did not receive mine yet. Just a thing i heard. Seems all good though from you guys sayings, i am all good.


----------



## Paul McAleer

KailM said:


> Or send the amp to me and I'll do some demos.




Right? I'd even listen to some crappy camera / phone recordings of this thing. Let's here it folks!


----------



## USMarine75

beavis2306 said:


> Has anyone got any idea how this goes with a Mesa OS cab yet? Is it a dark sounding amp and is the fact that the matching cab uses a plain V30 and a H75 intended to add the top end sparkle. Would the comparatively rolled-off top end of the Mesa V30s be too much? I suppose people use 5150s and Mesa cabs all the time...



Well if it is based on a 5150, then terrible. Per my old Peavey factory tech, a Celestion tech, and a top Peavey mod company, the amp was not designed for and does not play well with OS cabs if you are looking for any form of tight bass. As an actual former owner of a Mesa OS cab, I can tell you it sounded boomy and flubby and generally like absolute shit. Then again, maybe the changes will have some effect on this.

Anyways, I'm sure a bunch of people on here will tell you it sounds great, because this is SSO, even though they don't own either or both...


----------



## MattThePenguin

Can yall post phone videos or something pleeeeease lol I've seen every video for this under the sun and I just want more lol


----------



## beavis2306

USMarine75 said:


> Well if it is based on a 5150, then terrible. Per my old Peavey factory tech, a Celestion tech, and a top Peavey mod company, the amp was not designed for and does not play well with OS cabs if you are looking for any form of tight bass. As an actual former owner of a Mesa OS cab, I can tell you it sounded boomy and flubby and generally like absolute shit. Then again, maybe the changes will have some effect on this.



That's interesting. I thought it would've been fairly popular. Thanks for sharing your experience


----------



## USMarine75

beavis2306 said:


> That's interesting. I thought it would've been fairly popular. Thanks for sharing your experience



Yup, hence I had bought an OS Recto! lol 

It will still thump (think striking an open D chord a la AC/DC), but when I couldn't dial it in without flub and poor tracking, that's when I started reaching out to those various techs. Granted, I didn't play extreme brutal tech death at 220 bpm at the time lol... but now I know better.


----------



## BadSeed

It's funny, the MESA OS cab and 5150/6505 used to be the winning combo for metal and hardcore, and now everyone writes that cab off as too flubby or boomy. They make this crazy thing called a resonance control, and believe it or not, it functions from 0-10, not just on 10 

I own many cabs and heads, the only amp that I have that sounds tubby through the OS cab is a dual rec, and that's because that amp has an inherently loose and boomy bottom. Never understood the complaints about the OS cab being too boomy for a 5150 series amp.


----------



## BadSeed

On a side note, glad people are enjoying the invective. I'll need to hear one next to my 6505+ to see if they are different enough to warrant a purchase, as most of the extra features don't really suit my needs.


----------



## BadSeed

Also, one last comment to the point of origin of manufacture. 

People should DEFINITELY be concerned with origin of manufacture, if they have any intention of being an informed consumer. This amp was being marketed as "Made in USA" from the start, which is, in my view, how they were justifying a higher price point. While I don't believe Peavey would flat out lie about this, especially with the strict laws in place that dictate how such a thing is even phrased in marketing, packaging and on the end product, it would be a shame if there was some sort of deceit to it.

The reason why it matters is, there is a well known higher labor cost associated with Made in USA items, therefore, you are justified in paying a higher price for said items. If an item is made in China but the price isn't cheaper to reflect the lower cost to the Manufacturer, that is gouging the customer for profits, which happens all the time, but I'd refrain from a brand that is willing to do that if I have the knowledge that it's happening.

I don't really think this was ever an argument about quality, as the stigma that China has poor production quality is slowly starting to fade away. I just wouldn't want to pay US made prices for a Chinese made amp, but I don't believe that to be the case here.


----------



## FitRocker33

Here’s something to mentally masticate tonite:

Would you rather have an amp with all USA made components, but ASSEMBLED overseas, or an amp with all Chinese parts, but built right here in America?

Hmm...


----------



## Deadpool_25

MattThePenguin said:


> Can yall post phone videos or something pleeeeease lol I've seen every video for this under the sun and I just want more lol



Haha. Yeah I understand. But I will certainly not be posting any videos of my rookie playing. Be patient. I'm sure some more demos will be popping up soon since these are on the streets now.


----------



## PrestoDone

you guys are thinking waaaay to hard about this...made in usa with overseas components mean better quality control. just enjoy the damn amp


----------



## TheWarAgainstTime

I really like what I've heard from the amp so far, especially the Sweetwater videos Misha did a while back  

Maybe my local Guitar Center will get one in at some point to try out  Not exactly holding my breath, but they've surprised me a couple of times before with some high end amps.


----------



## USMarine75

BadSeed said:


> It's funny, the MESA OS cab and 5150/6505 used to be the winning combo for metal and hardcore, and now everyone writes that cab off as too flubby or boomy. They make this crazy thing called a resonance control, and believe it or not, it functions from 0-10, not just on 10
> 
> I own many cabs and heads, the only amp that I have that sounds tubby through the OS cab is a dual rec, and that's because that amp has an inherently loose and boomy bottom. Never understood the complaints about the OS cab being too boomy for a 5150 series amp.



I never thought to try _all _the knobs... Peavey techs, Celestion techs, Peavey mod companies, and I must have been wrong all these years.


----------



## jsmalleus

Forget overseas, I heard it was actually made underseas by blind hybrid gelatinous/crustacean warrior sea cucumbers with fourteen thumbs to allow them to better feel the tonez. Pics or it didn't not happen?


----------



## lewis

can i just say, so many of you dudes are lucky having music shops that would stock gear suitable for high gain/metal applications.

the only real big music store in my local City 10 minute drive from my house (PMT), caters almost entirely for Blues, light rock and dad/grandad musicians based on the stock the last time I went in there.
The only stuff guitar wise that jumped out to be suitable for me, were a small batch of used guitars being sold.

All the new stuff with the high prices is the typical Gibsons, strats etc etc.

There is no way I would see Randall amps or like High gain Peavey's in there based on my experiences.
They dont even sell packs of strings for 7 or 8 string guitars from memory.

anytime you ask about stuff like that you get the normal "8 string?. jeez abit much isnt it" type response

EDIT: In their defence they do sell Helix/Kempers


----------



## Tisca

PrestoDone said:


> you guys are thinking waaaay to hard about this...made in usa with overseas components mean better quality control. just enjoy the damn amp


Are you claiming murican QC is automatically better than Chinese? Then how do you explain Gibson guitars.
Oh, you've been to the Peavey factory. Please do share your experience.


----------



## TheRileyOBrien

FitRocker33 said:


> Here’s something to mentally masticate tonite:
> 
> Would you rather have an amp with all USA made components, but ASSEMBLED overseas, or an amp with all Chinese parts, but built right here in America?
> 
> Hmm...



Don't care either way as long as they are not lying or being misleading about it.


----------



## BrianC85

jsmalleus said:


> Forget overseas, I heard it was actually made underseas by blind hybrid gelatinous/crustacean warrior sea cucumbers with fourteen thumbs to allow them to better feel the tonez. Pics or it didn't not happen?



...and now I want an amp made by a blind hybrid gelatinous/crustacean warrior sea cucumber!


----------



## KailM

To anyone who's actually tried this thing -- how does the lead channel compare to an original 5150/6505's lead channel? Because I have both a 6505+ and a 6505, and definitely prefer the original, "non-+" lead channel. I've been toying with the idea of selling off both 6505s in favor of this, but only if it can still get that ultra-angry, not-overly-tight, low-mid roar of my 6505. The other features, like the amazing cleans are why I'd consider trading up. Again, I'm not a fan of this modern, overly-tight, clinical tone. Can the Invective be dialed to get some sag and massive low-end thump?


----------



## bulb

Yes, no one wants clinical tone from an amp, and I think you will like this amp.


----------



## Unleash The Fury

Thats a good question.......could this amp do doom/sludge/sabbath type metal if you wanted? (i know, i know you can buy X amp if i want X tone. Its just a question)


----------



## Matt08642

Unleash The Fury said:


> Thats a good question.......could this amp do doom/sludge/sabbath type metal if you wanted? (i know, i know you can buy X amp if i want X tone. Its just a question)



I feel like the general vibe of the amp is "If a 5150 can do it, so can the Invective", assuming you're using the lead channel


----------



## KailM

bulb said:


> Yes, no one wants clinical tone from an amp, and I think you will like this amp.



Awesome, I kinda get the sense that it's pretty adjustable. It would just take a lot to beat the aggression I hear in my 6505. I'd rather the amp be a little tubby in the low end and then have the ability to dial that out, but keep some; know what I mean? Some modern amps just have too much low end removed, IMO. Could be that I don't tune as low as some though, so I notice it more. I only go as low as drop-B, and that's pretty seldom.

I doubt I'll get to try one before buying-- so selling my 6505 to get an Invective would be a leap of faith.


----------



## 7 Stringer

Mine just came in, finally!!!!!

Cant play it yet


----------



## Palmer6strings

I just signed up today specifically for the invective threads.
I received my Peavey Invective here a little over a week ago, and I am also having low headroom on my volume. It's max volume with all knobs on 10 only gets as loud as my 6505+ on 2.5.
SweetWater is in the process of sending me a new one, and I will see if I have the same volume issue with it also.

On the extremely Bright side, this amp sounds amazing. You can get almost any type of sound you want and the tones are just amazing.
with the boost on your clean channel, it almost makes it to where you have 4 channels in a 3 channel amp.
The cleans are some of the best cleans I've ever personally heard through an amp.
The crunch and lead channel can sound anywhere from dark to really bright.

If the new one comes in and the issue is resolved, I would say this is a must have for any metal guitar player that likes to incorporate a lot of different sounds with just one amplifier.



KailM said:


> I doubt I'll get to try one before buying-- so selling my 6505 to get an Invective would be a leap of faith.



I wouldn’t sell your current amp just yet. It seems there are some quirks that still need worked out.
Saying this from personal experience.


----------



## Deadpool_25

@Palmer6strings 

I’m assuming you tried straight into the amp? I had a volume issue too. I was going through about 9 pedals and and traced the volume issue to a bad wire. I still haven’t done my spl test. Guess I should do that.


----------



## Deadpool_25

I just used an SPL app on my phone and on the crunch channel, with gain at noon, post gain maxed, and master on around 8 I had a max reading of 114.9 db. Honestly I think that might be the max on that app because I’m pretty sure I got it a little louder than it was at that point. Regardless, 115 dB is pretty damn loud.

Edit: full power setting, master boost off, channel boost off, custom 2x12 cab, Fishman Fluence Classic Humbuckers.


----------



## 7 Stringer

Anybody read the manual? 

KT88, 6550, 6Ca7, EL 34....... All can be used in the amp!!!!!÷

Bias range must be quite large.....or not. Screen grids can take it !!!!!!! If Peavey writes it in there manual.

Cant play the amp damn it, too late, everybody is sleeping, except me....again.....

This is very promising, i did not know it could take different tube types!!!


----------



## TheWarAgainstTime

KT88's  wonder why they didn't push that more as a feature, especially since one of the main advantages of the amp is its versatility


----------



## USMarine75

TheWarAgainstTime said:


> KT88's  wonder why they didn't push that more as a feature, especially since one of the main advantages of the amp is its versatility



Right? Ability to use KT88 were a big draw for me when I was looking at KSR, Fryette, and Splawn.


----------



## Palmer6strings

@Deadpool_25

I did go straight into the amp. Nothing in the loop.
With all settings at 12 o’clock, the clean channel blows away my gain channels volume wise.

With all settings at 12 o’clock and putting post gains and master at max volume I can still play sitting right in front of my amp without it hurting my ears any. Just barely loud enough to practice with my band.

I have noticed that my half power/full power switch doesn’t do shit. I have also noticed that the power tubes doesn’t get bright at all compared to my 6505+.


I don’t have a way to test decibels but I am using an Ibanez with EMG 707s, a 16 ohm 6505 cab (set to the correct ohms) and all brand new cables.

I have a video posted up on Facebook but I can’t link it here because I haven’t been a member long enough.


----------



## Deadpool_25

@Palmer6strings 

I see. Hopefully Peavey gets you sorted out quickly. Such an awesome amp.


----------



## Deadpool_25

7 Stringer said:


> Anybody read the manual?
> 
> KT88, 6550, 6Ca7, EL 34....... All can be used in the amp!!!!!÷
> 
> Bias range must be quite large.....or not. Screen grids can take it !!!!!!! If Peavey writes it in there manual.
> 
> Cant play the amp damn it, too late, everybody is sleeping, except me....again.....
> 
> This is very promising, i did not know it could take different tube types!!!



Haha. Yeah I read that in the manual too. Cool possibilities. I’m running mine with stock tubes and sending it’s preamp signal into my TC-50 with EL-34s for Stereo. Best of both worlds.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

7 Stringer said:


> Anybody read the manual?
> 
> KT88, 6550, 6Ca7, EL 34....... All can be used in the amp!!!!!÷
> 
> Bias range must be quite large.....or not. Screen grids can take it !!!!!!! If Peavey writes it in there manual.
> 
> Cant play the amp damn it, too late, everybody is sleeping, except me....again.....
> 
> This is very promising, i did not know it could take different tube types!!!


Yeah, if Peavey writes it in the manual, then it definitely can handle it. They're pretty persnickety from what I recall about users putting alternate types of tubes in amps. I think people were at one point mixing power tube types, and it was quite popular among some, but Peavey was none too pleased about the trend.


----------



## beavis2306

Only the on bias adjustment knob? I assume being able to run different types of tubes would have been a major selling point. Is there even one?


----------



## 7 Stringer

I too am very surprised they did not use this feature for marketing the amp. Boutique builders rave about that feature, Peavey should of too. Would of been a big selling point for me.

Kinda weird?


----------



## bulb

Big feature list, gotta focus on the important ones, most people don’t realize it comes with a midi footswitch either haha.

For dude with volume issues sorry about that and I hope it gets sorted quickly!


----------



## technomancer

Palmer6strings said:


> @Deadpool_25
> 
> I did go straight into the amp. Nothing in the loop.
> With all settings at 12 o’clock, the clean channel blows away my gain channels volume wise.
> 
> With all settings at 12 o’clock and putting post gains and master at max volume I can still play sitting right in front of my amp without it hurting my ears any. Just barely loud enough to practice with my band.
> 
> I have noticed that my half power/full power switch doesn’t do shit. I have also noticed that the power tubes doesn’t get bright at all compared to my 6505+.
> 
> 
> I don’t have a way to test decibels but I am using an Ibanez with EMG 707s, a 16 ohm 6505 cab (set to the correct ohms) and all brand new cables.
> 
> I have a video posted up on Facebook but I can’t link it here because I haven’t been a member long enough.



Have you tried swapping out preamp tubes? Tubes can easily be damaged in shipping and look perfectly fine while not working properly and would explain the volume drop on some channels and not others.


----------



## Palmer6strings

technomancer said:


> Have you tried swapping out preamp tubes? Tubes can easily be damaged in shipping and look perfectly fine while not working properly and would explain the volume drop on some channels and not others.



No I haven’t, the reason why I haven’t though is because I don’t want SweetWater to think I tampered with the amp and try to turn it around on me that I tampered with the amp without going to a authorized Peavey repair tech. I mean I know tubes are kinda like fuses in a way as to where they can/need be changed and it’s something I can do myself, but companies can be weird like that.
I may call them and see if that is something I can do or not.


----------



## Slam5150

7 Stringer said:


> Mine just came in, finally!!!!!
> 
> Cant play it yet


Who’d you order from?


----------



## 7 Stringer

Slam5150 said:


> Who’d you order from?


Killer Burst, Jon, great guy to deal with.


----------



## Deadpool_25

For those searching, Is Boynton Audio out? I think they had a couple more come in.


----------



## 7 Stringer

I too find the amp has to be cranked to get any serious volume, like almost full throttle and even then, it is not that loud.

Compared my 5150 II side by side with it and forget it, it is way quieter and does not hold the low end with the master and post cranked that high, falls apart.

Clean channel is way louder. I will try and get a video up, if i can find some spare time sooon. Only had about half an hour to play around with it, need more time!!!!!!


----------



## 7 Stringer

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Look at the sticker on the box, very clear to me.


----------



## Palmer6strings

@7 Stringer 

Well That’s 3 of is so far.

I’m waiting on a call back to see if they will let me mess with the tubes or not.
I really hope Peavey does something about this because I don’t want to be out $2k and have an amp that I cannot use. (As I’m sure you all don’t either.)

Get some more time with it and let us know what you think also.


----------



## lewis

holy crap i expected the volume issue to be limited to 1 dude.
3 so far? wow thats a damn shame. Seems whole batches are shipping like this.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

I haven't read through the thread, but did you guys try swapping tubes or something?


----------



## Deadpool_25

7 Stringer said:


> I too find the amp has to be cranked to get any serious volume, like almost full throttle and even then, it is not that loud.
> 
> Compared my 5150 II side by side with it and forget it, it is way quieter and does not hold the low end with the master and post cranked that high, falls apart.
> 
> Clean channel is way louder. I will try and get a video up, if i can find some spare time sooon. Only had about half an hour to play around with it, need more time!!!!!!



I'm curious about this. I'm getting almost 115db out of the amp, but I really don't know if it could/should be louder (115db is pretty loud). If you turn the channel's post gain all the way up, then use the master volume to control the amp's overall volume, it's still noticeably quiet? I assume so from what you guys have been saying. Doing it that way, my amp gets quite loud up to about 4 or 5 on the master then it starts to compress a bit more (though it still increases in volume). I will try to set up a little video tonight just to show the volume.


----------



## KailM

If the amps shipped with their power tubes installed, I would pull them out and put them back in, making sure they're seated properly. Sorry if that's elementary knowledge but I thought I'd just put it out there.

A couple times when I've moved my 6505 to/from a gig, one of the power tubes became unseated, and I swear I was very careful and gentle when moving it. The amp still fired up and made sound, but was noticeably a lot quieter even though I had it turned up pretty loud. It wasn't until then that I noticed one of the PTs wasn't lit up. After re-seating it -- it was balls-out loud again.

Hopefully that's all that's going on here.

You guys talking about sitting right in front of the cab with everything on 10 -- shit, my 6505 would sterilize me if I tried that. Not to mention, I'd have no hearing left.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Right? I couldn't even stand my 6505+ at volume 2 in my room. 

Hope the volume problems get sorted out. I'm so close to pulling the trigger on an Invective. I just need to hear more of it (and the EVH 5150III el34 50w). Holidays are coming. Need to give in to GAS.


----------



## Unleash The Fury

This is why nowadays i wont order, or especially pre-order anything thats a brand new idea until it has all its kinks worked out. I refuse to be a lab rat


----------



## Palmer6strings

KailM said:


> You guys talking about sitting right in front of the cab with everything on 10 -- shit, my 6505 would sterilize me if I tried that. Not to mention, I'd have no hearing left.



Exactly. Lol.

My 6505+ is the same way. I’ve compared them side by side. 

6505+:
Lead channel pre gain 6 
post gain around 3 
Almost too loud for band practice.

Invective: 
Lead channel pre gain around 5-6
Post gain max
Boost on
Master max
Barely too loud for band practice.


----------



## PrestoDone

now that you mention it.... i have to have my post dimed and master up to move sone air...will try and see if the tubes moved during shipping...even so...the tone of this amp is godly


----------



## PrestoDone

justed checked the power tubes and some became unseated during shipment...helped with the volume issue but still need to put the post way up abd the master gain too


----------



## bulb

For the record yeah the amp has a much more linear master volume than the 6505 or a lot of amps. I feel like I don't turn a lot of amps past 2-3 including the 6505 because it's at max volume there, and that's just silly. So this was designed to give you max volume when you actually max out the volume, thereby giving you a lot more control over the range in between. The amp is dumb loud too, like I would personally never run it anywhere close to max, mainly because out FOH would quit haha.


----------



## PrestoDone

Just made sure my invective tubes were set in correctl, along with the preamp tubes,and put my post gain at around 5 or 6. Now the master volume i can not put past 1 1/2 to 2 for bedroom levels...its LOUD ! Experiment with it...nothing wrong with the amp


----------



## 7 Stringer

PrestoDone said:


> Just made sure my invective tubes were set in correctl, along with the preamp tubes,and put my post gain at around 5 or 6. Now the master volume i can not put past 1 1/2 to 2 for bedroom levels...its LOUD ! Experiment with it...nothing wrong with the amp



Serious?

I gotta check this out, i was comparing my 5150II with it and it has way more balls, meat to the tone. The tube thing might be the answer.

Sure hope so cause this amp has it all, a dream amp.


----------



## Deadpool_25

bulb said:


> For the record yeah the amp has a much more linear master volume than the 6505 or a lot of amps. I feel like I don't turn a lot of amps past 2-3 including the 6505 because it's at max volume there, and that's just silly. So this was designed to give you max volume when you actually max out the volume, thereby giving you a lot more control over the range in between. The amp is dumb loud too, like I would personally never run it anywhere close to max, mainly because out FOH would quit haha.



Interesting. I was thinking about this today as this is the way my TC-50 is built. Nice and linear volume tapers. I guess I’ll check my tubes as well just to be sure, but like I said I can get 115db out of it as is. That’s NOT quiet lol


----------



## KailM

PrestoDone said:


> Just made sure my invective tubes were set in correctl, along with the preamp tubes,and put my post gain at around 5 or 6. Now the master volume i can not put past 1 1/2 to 2 for bedroom levels...its LOUD ! Experiment with it...nothing wrong with the amp


----------



## Lethalharmonic

+4 on the Volume issue I noticed my clean channel being TONS louder than the Crunch & Lead I wrote it off as compression/tech related.

Going to investigate further this afternoon.....


----------



## bulb

Lethalharmonic said:


> +4 on the Volume issue I noticed my clean channel being TONS louder than the Crunch & Lead I wrote it off as compression/tech related.
> 
> Going to investigate further this afternoon.....



The clean’s pre gain will also affect its volume, so use a combo of that and the clean post gain to get it to a volume that matches ch2/3.


----------



## Lethalharmonic

bulb said:


> The clean’s pre gain will also affect its volume, so use a combo of that and the clean post gain to get it to a volume that matches ch2/3.



I did some experimenting with the volume levels of my Invective through both the 2x12 matching cab at 16ohms full power & my Mesa OS 4x12 at 8ohms full power.

I can confirm that when the master volume reaches just under 1 sound comes alive, 2-5 it levels out, 5-8 adds a little more compression and 8-10 hits that HUGE jump to insane never go there territory that reminds me of 2.5-10 without an attenuator on any 5150 6505 amp I have ever played

Lowering the pre gain on the clean channel does drastically change the volume level. I was able to get a perfect blend between all the channels afterwards. I am convinced after my own experimentation and Misha's comments regarding the "linearity" of the master volume along with the pre gains affect on the clean channels volume my amp is functioning %100 correctly!

I am curious to learn a little more about how swapping post gain for master affects tone. Is it better to push your master volume & keep the post gain down or run your post gain higher and keep the master down? My ears have a difficult time telling the difference, some science would help!!!


----------



## Unleash The Fury

I think Peavey/Misha should have explained this from the beginning though (the linearity thing). It should have been mentioned as a selling point.


----------



## GoldDragon

Deadpool_25 said:


> I'm curious about this. I'm getting almost 115db out of the amp, but I really don't know if it could/should be louder (115db is pretty loud). If you turn the channel's post gain all the way up, then use the master volume to control the amp's overall volume, it's still noticeably quiet? I assume so from what you guys have been saying. Doing it that way, my amp gets quite loud up to about 4 or 5 on the master then it starts to compress a bit more (though it still increases in volume). I will try to set up a little video tonight just to show the volume.



120 Watts should be 125+ db


----------



## 7 Stringer

OMFG.

Everybody, you all need to get some 6550 tubes, i am telling you, it is just insane!!!!!

Compmetely new amp. Cleans are.....marveleous.

Crunch is way more crisp, not boomy, very articulate.

Lead..... Well just imagine......

Anybody ever play a VHT UL? But with more saturation.....

I am floored......

And it is loud now man......

Gonna go play it now.

Have a nice day!!!!!!!


----------



## beavis2306

!


7 Stringer said:


> OMFG.
> 
> Everybody, you all need to get some 6550 tubes, i am telling you, it is just insane!!!!!
> 
> Compmetely new amp. Cleans are.....marveleous.
> 
> Crunch is way more crisp, not boomy, very articulate.
> 
> Lead..... Well just imagine......
> 
> Anybody ever play a VHT UL? But with more saturation.....
> 
> I am floored......
> 
> And it is loud now man......
> 
> Gonna go play it now.
> 
> Have a nice day!!!!!!!




Oooooh tinkering, this is exciting
Edit: what breed of tubes did you use?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

So it was a bad batch of tubes, or mis-set tubes?


----------



## 7 Stringer

beavis2306 said:


> !
> 
> 
> 
> Oooooh tinkering, this is exciting
> Edit: what breed of tubes did you use?


Svetlana

The distortion is now very clean, no fizz, at all. Some may not like that but i looove it. I am used to the VHT clean, crisp and clear gain. Paired witht the input gate, it is TIGHT.

I played with the bias and raised it a little bit and it gained a bit of volume and a bit of hair. I will play with that more.


----------



## 7 Stringer

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> So it was a bad batch of tubes, or mis-set tubes?


Well i noticed before swapping the tubes that they where not seated all the way down. Was that a part of the issue? Not sure, i did not re check it.

Now i just love it, so damn convenient. The footswitch is damn smart too, i read the manual and it does all sorts of cool tricks. Very well thought out.

DC power outs work great too, very convenient. A super grab and go rig.


----------



## beavis2306

Anbody able to try some kt88's?


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

beavis2306 said:


> Anbody able to try some kt88's?


Is there enough room for KT88s? That can tend to be an issue.


----------



## Deadpool_25

Like I said, my amp seems fine. 115db so it’s loud enough for me. However I thought maybe @GoldDragon was right, so I decided to take a closer look to see if any tubes looked like they weren’t in all the way.







Clearly the second tube from the left isn’t in all the way. Too late to test it for volume right now but I’ll have to do that tomorrow.


----------



## Deadpool_25

Like I said, my amp seems fine. 115db so it’s loud enough for me. However I thought maybe @GoldDragon was right, so I decided to take a closer look to see if any tubes looked like they weren’t in all the way.






Clearly the second tube from the left isn’t in all the way. Too late to test it for volume right now but I’ll have to do that tomorrow.


----------



## Deadpool_25

Hm. Also noticed I had my impedance set incorrectly. It was in the middle (Full 8, Half 16). I’ve been running it full power but my cab is 16ohms. Oops. Now I’m _really_ curious what it’s like when I try turning it up tomorrow.


----------



## TheRileyOBrien

Deadpool_25 said:


> Hm. Also noticed I had my impedance set incorrectly. It was in the middle (Full 8, Half 16). I’ve been running it full power but my cab is 16ohms. Oops. Now I’m _really_ curious what it’s like when I try turning it up tomorrow.



Yikes, good thing it wasn't the other way around. Ohm mismatch will absolutely cause it to sound quieter and just bad overall. 

Those chinese sockets must not be retaining the tubes very well


----------



## Deadpool_25

This amp is plenty loud imo. If you’re having volume issues (a) check that your tubes are fully seated and (b) be aware that the master volume has a pretty linear taper.


----------



## Meeotch

I liked the clean channel quite a bit, and then he switched to crunch and I knew...

Recorded using the direct out, sigh...

I mean it doesn't sound bad, but er uhm yeah, sounded like a metal zone. Granted there are some fantastic qualities of this amp that shine through in this demo and I'm still super interested in hearing more clips!


----------



## diagrammatiks

Meeotch said:


> I liked the clean channel quite a bit, and then he switched to crunch and I knew...
> 
> Recorded using the direct out, sigh...
> 
> I mean it doesn't sound bad, but er uhm yeah, sounded like a metal zone. Granted there are some fantastic qualities of this amp that shine through in this demo and I'm still super interested in hearing more clips!




direct out into a daw without any sort of tone shaping or ir or anything pretty much always sounds like a metal zone.


----------



## TheRileyOBrien

Why even bother making a video if you are going to record the direct out signal to an ipad. FFS.


----------



## Palmer6strings

I checked all my tubes, found a pre amp tube with a bent pin. Arranged all my tubes differently, made sure they were all seated well. 
Still a volume problem. 

I also used a decibel app also and with all volumes maxed it also read around 115 decibels.
Thing to remember is, it’s a phone app not actually a decibel reader.
There is no way my amp is getting as loud as a jackhammer. I’ve used a jackhammer and it’s intolerable to be around without hearing protection.


----------



## bnzboy

I just wanted to quickly swing by and say Periphery did put out a hell of an amazing show last night. Guitars sounded really good especially Misha's new Jackson Strat through Invective.


----------



## Deadpool_25

Meeotch said:


> I liked the clean channel quite a bit, and then he switched to crunch and I knew...
> 
> Recorded using the direct out, sigh...
> 
> I mean it doesn't sound bad, but er uhm yeah, sounded like a metal zone. Granted there are some fantastic qualities of this amp that shine through in this demo and I'm still super interested in hearing more clips!





TheRileyOBrien said:


> Why even bother making a video if you are going to record the direct out signal to an ipad. FFS.



Yeah, I saw that video a couple of days ago and decided against posting anything about it. No disrespect to the guy, but I didn't think it sounded nearly as good as the tone I'm getting through my own Invective. With that said, he's talking about how good it sounds and I do agree with that.


----------



## Deadpool_25

Palmer6strings said:


> I checked all my tubes, found a pre amp tube with a bent pin. Arranged all my tubes differently, made sure they were all seated well.
> Still a volume problem.
> 
> I also used a decibel app also and with all volumes maxed it also read around 115 decibels.
> Thing to remember is, it’s a phone app not actually a decibel reader.
> There is no way my amp is getting as loud as a jackhammer. I’ve used a jackhammer and it’s intolerable to be around without hearing protection.



A thought just occurred to me. I think people are testing their volume with the master boost off (I was too). If you want to compare amp volumes, like against a 6505, you need to turn the master boost on (and probably max it). I just did a quick crunch channel volume check. I set the pre gain to noon, BMT to taste, post gain to full, master boost to full. I didn’t dare turn the master volume past 2. It’s insanely loud.

I’m not 100% sure on this but I think the master boost is holding some output in reserve. Kinda makes sense that it would work that way when you think about it.


----------



## Deadpool_25

And another interesting thing. With pre gain on noon, post gain all the way down, master boost off, master volume all the way down...I can still hear some sound.


----------



## 7 Stringer

Deadpool_25 said:


> A thought just occurred to me. I think people are testing their volume with the master boost off (I was too). If you want to compare amp volumes, like against a 6505, you need to turn the master boost on (and probably max it). I just did a quick crunch channel volume check. I set the pre gain to noon, BMT to taste, post gain to full, master boost to full. I didn’t dare turn the master volume past 2. It’s insanely loud.
> 
> I’m not 100% sure on this but I think the master boost is holding some output in reserve. Kinda makes sense that it would work that way when you think about it.



I think you might be right on this


----------



## cmtd

Guitar center just pushed the date back AGAIN to 11/27 as of today. Sweetwater emailed me and said "no word" on getting these in stock. Guess some of you guys got these amps through someone.

Unfortunately, I have the majority being paid with store credit through guitar center. This has just reached the point of absurd. Probably the 8th time the date has been pushed back now.


----------



## Deadpool_25

Oh man. Sorry to hear that @cmtd. Sweetwater definitely had some at some point because when I called to cancel my order they were about to ship it. I preordered back in June though. Hopefully you get it soon. It’s an amazing amp.


----------



## Seamus0407

I pre ordered my invective in June as well from sweetwater and they called me on Friday telling me they were going to ship me the head I should receive it today. Unfortunately the 2x12 cab isn't coming until December


----------



## Deadpool_25

@Palmer6strings, I'm curious if you read my post above and if you've tried the amp with the master boost on and cranked up.

@bulb, I am seriously thinking this is the source of the perceived "volume issue" for most folks.


----------



## Palmer6strings

Deadpool_25 said:


> @Palmer6strings, I'm curious if you read my post above and if you've tried the amp with the master boost on and cranked up.



Well God damnit...

Yeah sorry I didn’t get back sooner.
I swear, I ran circles around that damn button and never once hit it. I even read through the manual like 5 times front to back and somehow kept missing it.

I do however think that a tube with a bent pin wasn’t helping any.

I am now completely satisfied with this amplifier.

Thanks for finding out my problem!


----------



## Deadpool_25

Palmer6strings said:


> Well God damnit...
> 
> Yeah sorry I didn’t get back sooner.
> I swear, I ran circles around that damn button and never once hit it. I even read through the manual like 5 times front to back and somehow kept missing it.
> 
> I do however think that a tube with a bent pin wasn’t helping any.
> 
> I am now completely satisfied with this amplifier.
> 
> Thanks for finding out my problem!



Hell yeah. Awesome man. I think the issue is that we read "master volume boost" and intuitively believe it's going to add volume to an amp, when instead it probably just holds some volume in reserve and then allows you access it at the push of a switch.

This must be the case because an amp's max volume will be determined, generally speaking, by its power output (and speakers, etc. but that's a different topic). It's not like the master volume boost can increase the power output from 120W to 200W, so it must work as a power inhibitor until you engage it. 
_
_


----------



## Deadpool_25

So in this thread, four people reported possible volume issues. @7 Stringer, @PrestoDone, @Lethalharmonic, and @Palmer6strings.

Palmer6Strings' issue is solved, 7 Stringer's issue might be solved, I'm guessing PrestoDone's is the same thing. I'm thinking the "issue" has just been a misperception about how the amp actually works in regards to the mater volume boost.


----------



## Stooly

How is the noise floor on the amp? Do you feel like you still have to have another noisegate in the loop to kill the hum?


----------



## Palmer6strings

Y


Stooly said:


> How is the noise floor on the amp? Do you feel like you still have to have another noisegate in the loop to kill the hum?



There is a little bit of noise, but it’s not that bad unless if you have the gain extremely cranked or volume maxed out.


----------



## Frostbite

Man I just want this 2x12 to come out. It's basically stopping me from buying a used 5150 III 50 watt lol


----------



## Deadpool_25

Stooly said:


> How is the noise floor on the amp? Do you feel like you still have to have another noisegate in the loop to kill the hum?



I agree with @Palmer6strings. If you're playing very loud or recording (especially on the lead channel, with higher gain settings), you could probably benefit from a gate in the loop. I may grab an MXR smart gate just for the heck of it, but I don't feel like I _need_ it for what I am doing with the amp.


----------



## 7 Stringer

Stooly said:


> How is the noise floor on the amp? Do you feel like you still have to have another noisegate in the loop to kill the hum?


Personally, for me, it needs a noise gate in the loop. The hiss is very present at higher volumes. But i play very loud with my band so it is mandatory.

Even at moderate volume it is quite hissy and i dont use a lot of gain 10-11 o clock.

I have a Decimator II right now and it works perfect. I have a Fortin Zuul coming too.

The cool thing with the 2 loops is i have my H9 in one loop and the gate in the other. Perfect.


----------



## Unleash The Fury

Pardon my ignorance but can someone explain to me why someone cant make an amp with multiple noisegates that cut all unwanted noise from any and all things, eliminating the need for an external gate pedal?


----------



## MASS DEFECT

A shop near me has one in stock. Stoked to try this one later.


----------



## 7 Stringer

Unleash The Fury said:


> Pardon my ignorance but can someone explain to me why someone cant make an amp with multiple noisegates that cut all unwanted noise from any and all things, eliminating the need for an external gate pedal?



Marshall made one with 4 post loops, no input gates though. The JVM410HJS.

Post gates cut out all the pre amp noise. This one could of had one of those, and like you said, eliminating any external gates.


----------



## Deadpool_25

Unleash The Fury said:


> Pardon my ignorance but can someone explain to me why someone cant make an amp with multiple noisegates that cut all unwanted noise from any and all things, eliminating the need for an external gate pedal?



They could. They don't. Probably not worth the time and effort for most companies.


----------



## narad

Unleash The Fury said:


> Pardon my ignorance but can someone explain to me why someone cant make an amp with multiple noisegates that cut all unwanted noise from any and all things, eliminating the need for an external gate pedal?



And just put a delay, chorus, reverb, a nice fuzz in there, a phaser. Why do pedalboards have to exist?


----------



## 7 Stringer

narad said:


> And just put a delay, chorus, reverb, a nice fuzz in there, a phaser. Why do pedalboards have to exist?



A bit if an exageration here, but with a loop gate, the amp would be super quiet. Good thing it has two loops though, as one can turn off the loop with a gate in it for the clean channel so the signal does not cut out.

I am running it this way


----------



## Jacksonluvr636

So they made an amp with a built in noise gate that still needs an external noise gate?


----------



## 7 Stringer

Input gate does not take pre amp hiss away, never has, never will.


----------



## Palmer6strings

The input gate will only take away sound that’s in front of the amp.
It’s sole purpose in this case is to help shape tone for a more tight attack.


----------



## gfactor

Noticed in the picture on this page that the cab has feet for standing it up sideways. Awesome feature, I use my 212 on its side all the time on small stages so the sound isn't blasting into my calfs.


----------



## Unleash The Fury

narad said:


> And just put a delay, chorus, reverb, a nice fuzz in there, a phaser. Why do pedalboards have to exist?


^Triggered smartass of the month award goes to...^


----------



## Deadpool_25

Unleash The Fury said:


> ^Triggered smartass of the month award goes to...^



narad's comment might earn smartass of the day, but I think he'd have some competition for any longer than that.


----------



## Unleash The Fury

A gate is usually given. In the context of metal, if you have a pedalboard, you definitly have a gate pedal in there. Delay, chorus?......... not so necessary.


----------



## Unleash The Fury

A gate is usually a given. In the context of metal, if you have a pedalboard, you definitly have a gate pedal in there. Delay, chorus?......... not so necessary though. A gate is absolutley necessary. Ask anyone who owns an amplifier

Edit. Double post sorry


----------



## narad

Deadpool_25 said:


> narad's comment might earn smartass of the day, but I think he'd have some competition for any longer than that.



Hey, I'm in other threads too!



Unleash The Fury said:


> A gate is usually given. In the context of metal, if you have a pedalboard, you definitly have a gate pedal in there. Delay, chorus?......... not so necessary.



I don't know, I don't have a gate in my board/rack anymore. Some of my high gain amps have it built in, some just don't require it. Never needed a gate with a Diezel Herbert.


----------



## Unleash The Fury

narad said:


> Hey, I'm in other threads too!
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know, I don't have a gate in my board/rack anymore. Some of my high gain amps have it built in, some just don't require it. Never needed a gate with a Diezel Herbert.



Fair enough. But do you play live, have band practice, or just play loud in general? Like past volume 2 with high gain? I suppose it depends on the amp and situation, but to me and i think most metal players would agree that a noise gate is essential in any pedalboard


----------



## Soya

Egnater Armageddon also had a built in gate, but I think it's a preamp gate too.


----------



## 7 Stringer

Unleash The Fury said:


> Fair enough. But do you play live, have band practice, or just play loud in general? Like past volume 2 with high gain? I suppose it depends on the amp and situation, but to me and i think most metal players would agree that a noise gate is essential in any pedalboard



It sure is essential with some volume, even a boutique $4000 high gain amp needs one. I lkke to hear nothing when stop playing, not a hiss, not a squeal. Makes for a pro sounding setup.

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, hate that sound!!!!! Lol


----------



## narad

Unleash The Fury said:


> Fair enough. But do you play live, have band practice, or just play loud in general? Like past volume 2 with high gain? I suppose it depends on the amp and situation, but to me and i think most metal players would agree that a noise gate is essential in any pedalboard



No, but I don't think this matters as much as genre. If I played djent I would care. 

Or if I had a noisy amp like a 5150/triple rec I would care. But I used to play with a ton of gain and an ISP pro-rack G, now I play with less gain and high quality amps and it's just not been much of an issue.


----------



## Unleash The Fury

narad said:


> No, but I don't think this matters as much as genre. If I played djent I would care.
> 
> Or if I had a noisy amp like a 5150/triple rec I would care. But I used to play with a ton of gain and an ISP pro-rack G, now I play with less gain and high quality amps and it's just not been much of an issue.


I cant afford to ditch my 6505+ and get a boutique amp. Besides i love the sound of it (minus the noise). I was hoping this invective built in gate would take care of that noise but i was ignorant of what its purpose is. So thats why im asking why arent there amps with built in gates with the purpose eliminating all noise, the same way that a gate pedal does.


----------



## narad

Unleash The Fury said:


> I cant afford to ditch my 6505+ and get a boutique amp. Besides i love the sound of it (minus the noise). I was hoping this invective built in gate would take care of that noise but i was ignorant of what its purpose is. So thats why im asking why arent there amps with built in gates with the purpose eliminating all noise, the same way that a gate pedal does.



First thought being, obviously, there are gate pedals. 

This is better (economics) for a lot of people: if someone has two amps that they paid $400 more for to include an ISP-style gate in both, they could be $200 better off to have a pedal that is shared between rigs. Pedal/rack gates are almost always considered better gates than built-in ones.

From the amp company perspective, is it worth inflating amp cost by $200 for a feature some won't use, vs. a barebone competitor amp? I mean it's nice if it was in the amp, but not if it makes a competitor's product significantly more affordable. Same reason a lot of effects aren't thrown into amps, like in the smartass comment. Like I'd like an amp with a built in compressor, but I'm not going to pay any more for it really.


----------



## Unleash The Fury

narad said:


> First thought being, obviously, there are gate pedals.
> 
> This is better (economics) for a lot of people: if someone has two amps that they paid $400 more for to include an ISP-style gate in both, they could be $200 better off to have a pedal that is shared between rigs. Pedal/rack gates are almost always considered better gates than built-in ones.
> 
> From the amp company perspective, is it worth inflating amp cost by $200 for a feature some won't use, vs. a barebone competitor amp? I mean it's nice if it was in the amp, but not if it makes a competitor's product significantly more affordable. Same reason a lot of effects aren't thrown into amps, like in the smartass comment. Like I'd like an amp with a built in compressor, but I'm not going to pay any more for it really.



Well why did you shell out the cash for a Diezel amp when you could have just gotten a used peavey valveking and a ns2 pedal? Both sound great in their own rights.

I think it is worth inflating the price for both users and producers. It is convenience that people pay for. Why do people pay $4 for cheese and garlic bread at a restaurant when you can buy 2 loaves of bread and 4 whole cloves of garlic for the same price and make it yourself and have garlic bread for a whole week? Why do people pay $13 for a plate of spaghetti at olive garden when they can make 3 times the amount of spaghetti at home for $1?

There are plenty of people that would pay the extra price for the convenience of having an amp with true noise removal. (Of course then you could say well why dont they just take that extra money and buy a better amp thats not noisey? Youd have a point there. But the 5150 sound cant be denied


----------



## Deadpool_25

It is clearly NOT worth it for companies to do it because if it was, they’d do it. These are businesses we are talking about. 

Gates, like other effects, are personal things. Or can be. My Vypyr has a bunch of built in effects. Those appeal to a certain demographic of amp shoppers...the ones who typically buy affordable practice amps and want an all in one solution. More experienced guitarists typically want to have more say in exactly what their gear consists of.

Wait...why am I even discussing this? Somehow, “why don’t companies build gates into their amps,” became a real question. Like pretty much any other answer when it comes to business...because it’s not profitable.

Now get back to talking about the Invective.


----------



## 7 Stringer

A gate is not really an effect, it is a device made to quiet down hiss and noise generated by a said amplifier. Making a built in gate would make sense, to me, and Joe Satriani, oh and Yngwie, and sell the said amp at no more than any other quality amps on the market. 

To me, it would make total sense to have a built in post gate. Hell, they put a pre gate in, why not a post one? Why not try and make an amp dead silent? Lets leave the hiss alone, every other company does......


----------



## crankyrayhanky

narad said:


> And just put a delay, chorus, reverb, a nice fuzz in there, a phaser. Why do pedalboards have to exist?


Now that I've spent some time with Katana, this is actually a valid question. Katana level fx in a quality tube amp- does that even exist?



Unleash The Fury said:


> Fair enough. But do you play live, have band practice, or just play loud in general? Like past volume 2 with high gain? I suppose it depends on the amp and situation, but to me and i think most metal players would agree that a noise gate is essential in any pedalboard


Diezels are crazy quiet for the high gain they spit out. It's not dead silent like a gate in a loop, but it's remarkably quiet. 
And on my noisier EVH 50w, I just make sure to hit over to the green channel when the song ends and kill the guitar volume. 

But yes, a proper gate system is nice!
I'm glad people are digging on their new Invectives! I can;t join you this round, but maybe one day...


----------



## Unleash The Fury

7 Stringer said:


> A gate is not really an effect, it is a device made to quiet down hiss and noise generated by a said amplifier. Making a built in gate would make sense, to me, and Joe Satriani, oh and Yngwie, and sell the said amp at no more than any other quality amps on the market.
> 
> To me, it would make total sense to have a built in post gate. Hell, they put a pre gate in, why not a post one? Why not try and make an amp dead silent? Lets leave the hiss alone, every other company does......


Absolutely this.


----------



## cwhitey2

I love all of this talk about gates 

Since I purchased my sig:x I haven't thought about using a gate and I won't use one live unless it's absolutely needed.


----------



## 7 Stringer

cwhitey2 said:


> I love all of this talk about gates
> 
> Since I purchased my sig:x I haven't thought about using a gate and I won't use one live unless it's absolutely needed.



Had a Sig X, sold it after a couple years, was a hell of an amp and actually very quiet. Only sold it cause i also have an UL and find it more aggressive and tight. Less versatile but more my style.

I would buy another one in a heartbeat though, really enjoyed that amp.


----------



## GoldDragon

7 Stringer said:


> Input gate does not take pre amp hiss away, never has, never will.



Wrong.

If the preamp is designed well, when the guitar volume is rolled off, the hiss stops, just as if the guitar was disconnected.

An input gate *should* completely stop the preamp hiss. If the amp has an input gate and is still hissing, it is coming from somewhere after the preamp.

The JSX built in noise gate was excellent, that amp didnt need another gate pedal. If the invective needs another gate pedal, its worth troubleshooting to see if something is wrong with the amp.

1) Roll off the volume on guitar. Is preamp still hissing?

2) Plug guitar directly to the effect return. Is amp still hissing? (with reverb off)

If it is hissing in either of these scenarios, there is something wrong.

If turning off the guitar volume stops the hissing, but the built in gate does not, there is something wrong with the gate.


----------



## TedEH

Unleash The Fury said:


> A gate is usually a given. In the context of metal, if you have a pedalboard, you definitly have a gate pedal in there. Delay, chorus?......... not so necessary though. A gate is absolutley necessary. Ask anyone who owns an amplifier





Unleash The Fury said:


> But do you play live, have band practice, or just play loud in general? Like past volume 2 with high gain? I suppose it depends on the amp and situation, but to me and i think most metal players would agree that a noise gate is essential in any pedalboard


I feel like this is something that owners of 5150-styled amps assume (and maybe people who don't recognize that metal doesn't mean ALL THE GAIN), but it's not close to true. I've never owned or felt like I needed a gate. None of the people I jam with use gates. And I play high gain, loudly, at shows, jams, etc.- using Randall, Mesa, Traynor, etc. amps. The only time I felt like a gate was needed was when I borrowed a 5150 a couple of times. Noisy and feedbacky as all hell. This isn't a common thing among amps. When you say "ask anyone who owns an amplifier" what you meant to say was "ask anyone who owns a 5150 or derivative." The rest of us are happy with our quiet amps. Same thing goes for boost pedals. Not everyone needs them.


----------



## technomancer

GoldDragon said:


> Wrong.
> 
> If the preamp is designed well, when the guitar volume is rolled off, the hiss stops, just as if the guitar was disconnected.
> 
> An input gate *should* completely stop the preamp hiss. If the amp has an input gate and is still hissing, it is coming from somewhere after the preamp.



Actually this is wrong. 

"Designed well" is really vague and some designs depending on how the stages are biased and input loads etc will just have hiss with high gain. All depends on what you're going for. Could you lower the input resistor and change the gain stage layout / biasing on a 5150 to remove noise? Sure. But it wouldn't sound like a 5150 anymore. There are things you can do like using metal film resistors to lower noise floor, but some designs just have hiss, period.


----------



## 7 Stringer

GoldDragon said:


> Wrong.
> 
> If the preamp is designed well, when the guitar volume is rolled off, the hiss stops, just as if the guitar was disconnected.
> 
> An input gate *should* completely stop the preamp hiss. If the amp has an input gate and is still hissing, it is coming from somewhere after the preamp.
> 
> The JSX built in noise gate was excellent, that amp didnt need another gate pedal. If the invective needs another gate pedal, its worth troubleshooting to see if something is wrong with the amp.
> 
> 1) Roll off the volume on guitar. Is preamp still hissing?
> 
> 2) Plug guitar directly to the effect return. Is amp still hissing? (with reverb off)
> 
> If it is hissing in either of these scenarios, there is something wrong.
> 
> If turning off the guitar volume stops the hissing, but the built in gate does not, there is something wrong with the gate.



How can a gate before the preamp stop the hiss after it?????

Same as a gate before a delay or after. After it cuts the trails, before it does nothing, just as if it was not there.


----------



## Slam5150

cwhitey2 said:


> I love all of this talk about gates
> 
> Since I purchased my sig:x I haven't thought about using a gate and I won't use one live unless it's absolutely needed.



Im actually pulling the plug on waiting for my Invective and getting a Sig-X. Very excited!


----------



## Unleash The Fury

TedEH said:


> I feel like this is something that owners of 5150-styled amps assume (and maybe people who don't recognize that metal doesn't mean ALL THE GAIN), but it's not close to true. I've never owned or felt like I needed a gate. None of the people I jam with use gates. And I play high gain, loudly, at shows, jams, etc.- using Randall, Mesa, Traynor, etc. amps. The only time I felt like a gate was needed was when I borrowed a 5150 a couple of times. Noisy and feedbacky as all hell. This isn't a common thing among amps. When you say "ask anyone who owns an amplifier" what you meant to say was "ask anyone who owns a 5150 or derivative." The rest of us are happy with our quiet amps. Same thing goes for boost pedals. Not everyone needs them.


Ok. Well the argument works in my favor in this case in that, the amp in this thread happens to be a 5150 derivitive 

No not everybody needs gates and boost pedals, but ALOT of people use them. Fwiw i dont play with all the gain either. My amps pregain is at 4 right now, i have my OD level all the way up to tighten it up because thats the sound i prefer and cant seem to get that sound without that boost.

And again, this is a thread about a 5150 style amp; so i think its appropriate that i ask why this amp doesnt have a post gate built into it.


----------



## Lethalharmonic

gfactor said:


> Noticed in the picture on this page that the cab has feet for standing it up sideways. Awesome feature, I use my 212 on its side all the time on small stages so the sound isn't blasting into my calfs.



I am almost positive this is NOT the "Inective 2x12" pictured. My cab only has rubber feet on the bottom, as well as the Peavey logo in the upper left and "Invective. 2x12" badge on the lower right.

Page 55 is the original location of this post if anyone else cares to comment on this.





[/QUOTE]


----------



## TedEH

Unleash The Fury said:


> this is a thread about a 5150 style amp; so i think its appropriate that i ask why this amp doesnt have a post gate built into it.


I agree, it's an appropriate comment regarding the kinds of amp in question in the thread, I just disagree with the very generalized way it was (and tends to be) stated- I think a lot of metal players assume other people's rigs are really similar to their own more often than is really the case.

I still thinks it's a weird thing to expect of the amp though, unless you also roll a bunch of the other pedals people often use into the amp at the same time. If it's supposed to be a "one amp head to replace the stereotypical use of a 5150-style amp", then it should have the gates in both locations, a tube-screamer style boost built in, as well as a post-gain EQ in place of the pedal people like to put in their loops.


----------



## cwhitey2

Slam5150 said:


> Im actually pulling the plug on waiting for my Invective and getting a Sig-X. Very excited!



I don't think you will be disappointed! 

What cab are you going to use with it?


----------



## Unleash The Fury

TedEH said:


> I agree, it's an appropriate comment regarding the kinds of amp in question in the thread, I just disagree with the very generalized way it was (and tends to be) stated- I think a lot of metal players assume other people's rigs are really similar to their own more often than is really the case.
> 
> I still thinks it's a weird thing to expect of the amp though, unless you also roll a bunch of the other pedals people often use into the amp at the same time. If it's supposed to be a "one amp head to replace the stereotypical use of a 5150-style amp", then it should have the gates in both locations, a tube-screamer style boost built in, as well as a post-gain EQ in place of the pedal people like to put in their loops.



Hey I didnt take it to that extreme, YOU did . All i wanted was a post gate. I was wrong to generalize, I have zero experience playing with high end equipment, both guitars and amps, so i figured most rigs were noisy like the 5150.


----------



## TedEH

Realistically, I think it's fair to say lots of amps are noisy in some way, but most aren't "I need two noise gates for this to be manageable" noisy.


----------



## Slam5150

cwhitey2 said:


> I don't think you will be disappointed!
> 
> What cab are you going to use with it?



Unfortunately I still have my EVH 4x12 and am fully aware I’m probably gonna have to get a different cab.


----------



## cwhitey2

Slam5150 said:


> Unfortunately I still have my EVH 4x12 and am fully aware I’m probably gonna have to get a different cab.



Well try it first and go from there. I have not tried those speakers so I cannot comment on the sound.

I'm using a Basson 4x12 with Legends and it's awesome! IMO I think you can get away using a non Fryette cab with the sig:x. @Triple7 had/has one incoming and has used one in the past and comment on cabs as well.


----------



## Lethalharmonic

Page 53 has my original post and pictures!!

Any word on pictures of Invectives being assembled in the Meridian Plant? Aubrey Fulton (head engineer at Peavey Meridian actually did send me the correct sticker LOL!

Right power amp tube was badly lifted, Found hidden Chassis sticker with MFG date of 7/17 sticker, one over the top had 10/17 date. The true assembly location continues & Delay cause remains a mystery!


----------



## narad

Well that chassis looks nice and shiny.


----------



## Deadpool_25

On noise: Just did some more testing. I agree there’s enough noise on the lead channel to warrant an extra gate even with lower gain settings. The crunch channel doesn’t really need it, but there is a little hiss that could be removed if you’re getting a gate for the lead channel anyway. I’m going to grab an MXR Smart Gate and see how that is. I really don’t need it personally but...it’s gear. F it.

Edit: Also, the built in gate does kill noise from the guitar, but there is still hiss present at volume. I just checked my TC-50 and it has just as much at similar volume levels. 

On volume: If the amp isn’t loud enough for you with post gain and master volume both dialed in high, you can use the master boost to make up that volume. Using that, the amp can get incredibly loud. Like, scary loud. So be careful. If you want to get that volume back but without using the master boost (presumably because you want to use that boost for solos or something) another great option is to put an EQ in the loop. I have an MXR 6-band and it does the job quite well. Again, be careful. The EQ can add more than enough volume. On top of that an EQ in the loop is just an awesome thing to have for tone shaping. Love it.


----------



## Triple7

cwhitey2 said:


> Well try it first and go from there. I have not tried those speakers so I cannot comment on the sound.
> 
> I'm using a Basson 4x12 with Legends and it's awesome! IMO I think you can get away using a non Fryette cab with the sig:x. @Triple7 had/has one incoming and has used one in the past and comment on cabs as well.




Oh it came in alright! 

I don't have a Fryette cab either...I have been using a Vader 4x12 with all things Fryette/VHT, and it sounds amazing. So, if you can get your hands on one of those...you win.


----------



## Slam5150

My sweet water rep just called to tell me that Peavey won’t be getting them their next shipment until the end of December. Fuck you peavey. I cancelled my order and am getting a different amp


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Wow...


----------



## Unleash The Fury

Slam5150 said:


> My sweet water rep just called to tell me that Peavey won’t be getting them their next shipment until the end of December. Fuck you peavey. I cancelled my order and am getting a different amp


And at the end of December they'll say..............


----------



## 7 Stringer

Peavey Invective 120 for sale: $4500.


----------



## 7 Stringer

Lol, was just kidding. 

But it is just a matter of time before it happens.....


----------



## Deadpool_25

Slam5150 said:


> My sweet water rep just called to tell me that Peavey won’t be getting them their next shipment until the end of December. Fuck you peavey. I cancelled my order and am getting a different amp



That sucks man. Hopefully you end up with an amp you love.


----------



## cmtd

Same, I emailed peavey regarding the delay, and was told "the dealer is the only one that can find out the status of the order". I have contacted the dealer multiple times, and they only have the available dates that peavey says they will ship.

I gave it over 6 months of waiting on a pre-order list, and apparently the pre-order means nothing, as other shops are getting them in stock for people to buy. Not sure who or what is to blame, and really don't care at this point.

Cancelled mine today as well.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Wonder if the same or similar happened to George Lynch when he was working on a signature amp with Peavey. Wasn't the Triple X supposed to be a Lynch signature amp? 

Anyways, sucks that people who were really stoked for them amp are waiting so long that they give up on it and moving on to something else.


----------



## bluffalo

There's a lot of butthurtz in here. They haven't even started producing the variant for Australia yet, and some of you sooks are giving up.

I'm amazed.


----------



## 7 Stringer

I waited over a year for a little mod done to my Friedamn BE100 by Dave, never complained.

But i get that it is frustrating to hear the date pushed back, i was anxious also to get mine. Got lucky i guess.

But.

This is an amp wait list, not a heart transplant wait list.

Back to our regular program.


----------



## katsumura78

Any plans to release a version with white tolex next year? You guys had them on tour and that picture won’t get out of my head. They look so sick! I’ll gladly wait if it’s in the works.


----------



## Deadpool_25

It does suck that folks are so frustrated they’re giving up. I get it but still a shame. It’s such a good amp. Peavey could/should have had a system in place where retailers could communicate how many preorders they had and Peavey could fill based on those.

I will say that I think the amp is worth an extra degree of patience but to be fair that’s easy for me to say when I’ve got mine.


----------



## mnemonic

I don't think we should be encouraging each other to be complacent and accept poor customer service. If you're just totally fine with waiting half a year longer than expected for something, then more power to you. But to say someone is wrong for not wanting to be jerked around while actively trying to give a company their money... The more you let people get away with it, the more it will happen. 

Peavey also isn't one guy who mods and builds amps, they're a pretty big corporation who has done this product fulfilment thing for years, they ought to know their shit.


----------



## Slam5150

mnemonic said:


> I don't think we should be encouraging each other to be complacent and accept poor customer service. If you're just totally fine with waiting half a year longer than expected for something, then more power to you. But to say someone is wrong for not wanting to be jerked around while actively trying to give a company their money... The more you let people get away with it, the more it will happen.
> 
> Peavey also isn't one guy who mods and builds amps, they're a pretty big corporation who has done this product fulfilment thing for years, they ought to know their shit.



This right here!

I’m an endorsed Peavey artist and I waited over 6 months being told “it’s coming shortly”, only to be told time and time again that it’s pushed back. I said I needed it no later than mid November and was assured it would be here by then. Yet again, I’ve been told to wait for another 2 months. Nope! No amp is worth getting dicked around like that. For Peavey to release a 5150 preamp-based amp with all the modern day features and an amazing clean and think it wasn’t going to be in severe demand, they’re not thinking straight. There is absolutely no reason to be on a waiting list for 6+ months for a mass-produced amp. A $4000 boutique amp is a different story.

I have no doubt the Invective is a great amp, but “worth the wait” and constant disappointment every time they fail to follow through....not for me.


----------



## 7 Stringer

There is a reason for everything, but i am sure Peavey is not doing this on purpose, they sure want to sell these amps i am sure on that. 

What they should be doing is issuing a statement saying exactly what is going on and that they are doing there best to rectify the situation.

I gave my deposit a hell of a long time ago, got my amp, i was lucky as i can see, but i would not be cancelling my order if i had not received it yet, i would continue waiting.

I waited 1 1/2 years to get my Fortin Natas, was supposed to take 6 months. I did not make a fuss about it and totally understood Mike's situation, all good. 

Big or small company, shit happens.


----------



## Slam5150

7 Stringer said:


> There is a reason for everything, but i am sure Peavey is not doing this on purpose, they sure want to sell these amps i am sure on that.
> 
> What they should be doing is issuing a statement saying exactly what is going on and that they are doing there best to rectify the situation.
> 
> I gave my deposit a hell of a long time ago, got my amp, i was lucky as i can see, but i would not be cancelling my order if i had not received it yet, i would continue waiting.
> 
> I waited 1 1/2 years to get my Fortin Natas, was supposed to take 6 months. I did not make a fuss about it and totally understood Mike's situation, all good.
> 
> Big or small company, shit happens.



You’re right that is what they should be doing, and they’re not. In fact, they are not making any attempt to explain to customers and people who have been waiting for almost a year why their amp isnt in yet. I talked to a numerous number of people in multiple departments at Peavey about the situation and not a single one had any idea what was going on. For people waiting in line to shell out money for their most expensive amp to date and not having a clue what’s going on with the production of them is horseshit. 

I don’t have time to “wait longer”. I sold my other amp and go on tour in a month. I can’t just continue to wait.

Again you’re comparing a $5k PTP handmade amp with a mass produced production-line amp. Totally different scenarios. 

I’m glad you got your amp man. You’re def one of the lucky ones. The fact is Peavey dropped the ball for the majority of people interested in this amp and they’re doing nothing about it but telling people to “wait longer”.


----------



## cmtd

To echo what has been said. I've been waiting for a hand built small boutique amp from a one man builder for almost 2 years now. I'm not opposed to waiting for gear, in the appropriate situation. 

The problem is Peavey is a multi-million dollar company that has been around since the 1960's. This isn't their first rodeo. I'm not ok with having ~$2,000 just siting out there and getting absolutely no information on what is going on, aside from the just keep waiting. Which is my personal choice, and if you are ok with waiting, great. No one is telling anyone what to do with their time or money.

My opinion is that Peavey has dropped the ball here. They hyped the shit out of this amp and fell flat on delivering. So I will take my money elsewhere. I sincerely hope those that have gotten one, or will in the future enjoy it. I'm sure it is a great amp.


----------



## Deadpool_25

I certainly can understand why some people are canceling orders. Everyone has their own needs, perspective, tolerance for BS, etc.

In my opinion, Peavey seems to have dropped the ball in a few areas. They were too optimistic with their delivery timetable, they didn’t seem to pay enough attention to preorders (in order to support those early adopters), and they have certainly dropped the ball in terms of communication. Misha has been great though imo (he has done a better job communicating than we should expect from full-time and often-touring artist). But I believe even he has had to call and ask for information. These things are disappointing...and correctable. 

Now, what they did not drop the ball on was building a great amp. With Misha’s input they have a real winner here as far as I can tell. When the demos from the big YouTube guys start popping up, and when there are some in stores to try, I think they’ll sell a lot of them. Order cancellations won’t hurt them at all directly since the cancellations will likely go to other preorders that don’t cancel (I bet there are lurkers here who have orders in and are silently cheering when folks say they canceled), or will sell very quickly when they’re in stock at a retailer. Peavey has clearly pissed some people off though and they risk potentially losing a few customers for many years to come.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Hey if you guys are around Petaluma California, Silly Strings have an Invective in stock. I tried it and it was fricking loud. And yes, sounds like the OG 5150 on the lead channel, only more hi-fi, if that makes any sense.

I just think it is not worth trading in my 6505+ since I won't be using all those nice features on the Invective. If you are a pedalboard and MIDI guy, this is the metal amp for you. Every amp should have those 9V terminals!


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

7 Stringer said:


> There is a reason for everything, but i am sure Peavey is not doing this on purpose, they sure want to sell these amps i am sure on that.
> 
> What they should be doing is issuing a statement saying exactly what is going on and that they are doing there best to rectify the situation.
> 
> I gave my deposit a hell of a long time ago, got my amp, i was lucky as i can see, but i would not be cancelling my order if i had not received it yet, i would continue waiting.
> 
> I waited 1 1/2 years to get my Fortin Natas, was supposed to take 6 months. I did not make a fuss about it and totally understood Mike's situation, all good.
> 
> Big or small company, shit happens.


Fortin/Friedman are not the same as Peavey. Stop trying to compare the wait times.


----------



## 7 Stringer

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Fortin/Friedman are not the same as Peavey. Stop trying to compare the wait times.



???

Waiting for an amp is waiting for an amp. Period.

Small or big.

The amp will be available. Peavey might not be addressing the situation in the finest manner, i will give you that, but words like fuck Peavey, ( I known,I know, not you) seem a bit overboard.

New amp, complicated one, re instated US shop, parts sourcing, California regulations......list could go on.

Anyway, this is getting old, this thread was about the actual amp, i guess that ain't the point no more.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

7 Stringer said:


> ???
> 
> Waiting for an amp is waiting for an amp. Period.
> 
> Small or big.
> 
> The amp will be available. Peavey might not be addressing the situation in the finest manner, i will give you that, but words like fuck Peavey, ( I known,I know, not you) seem a bit overboard.
> 
> New amp, complicated one, re instated US shop, parts sourcing, California regulations......list could go on.
> 
> Anyway, this is getting old, this thread was about the actual amp, i guess that ain't the point no more.


It is still about the amp, so I'm not sure what you're talking about. As for "waiting for an amp is waiting for an amp," no, not really. A big company like Peavey is different than a small, boutique builder like Fortin and Friedman -- a lot different. The problem with comparing the two is because it's comparing two companies that are quite a bit different structure wise.


----------



## USMarine75

I think someone should teach Peavey a lesson and sell me their Invective cheap... take a stand against this tyranny!


----------



## KailM

Some of the best things in life are worth waiting for.

This is all quite entertaining for me to watch. I'm sure Peavey will deliver in due time. What I don't doubt is that this is an amazing amp. Probably the most ambitious design they've ever released; of course there's going to be hangups and holdups. 

I might feel differently if I had the $2k on the line, but I decided a long time ago my timeline for getting an Invective is years down the road. I have trouble coughing up $2k for a new amp; any brand -- I'm going to wait until there's some used ones out there. If you can't wait for a new amp, well, there's plenty of great amps out there. But there's no need to declare war on Peavey.


----------



## 7 Stringer

Here is a fresh pic of my current amps, just to freshen up the thread. Missing is my 5150II and 5150III.




image album upload

I was wondering something, if anybody is good with midi. Would it be possible controlling the Invective and my Fractal FX8 via the Invective FS? 

What i mean by that is i would leave my FX8 on top of my amp, short cable runs, and just use the Invective FS to control both the amp functions and FX8.


----------



## Deadpool_25

7 Stringer said:


> Here is a fresh pic of my current amps, just to freshen up the thread. Missing is my 5150II and 5150III.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> image album upload
> 
> I was wondering something, if anybody is good with midi. Would it be possible controlling the Invective and my Fractal FX8 via the Invective FS?
> 
> What i mean by that is i would leave my FX8 on top of my amp, short cable runs, and just use the Invective FS to control both the amp functions and FX8.



Just going off what I read in the manual here so I could be wrong, but...

It depends what you need the FX8 to do. The one negative thing I’ve found about the Invective is that the midi out is not a true through. Meaning the only messages it will pass are messages that were valid for the Invective. From the manual, this is so the Invective FS can control multiple Invectives.

I think as advanced as you’ll be able to get is using the FS in preset mode and having that call up presets in the FX8. In that case you’d be limited to 9 presets. If you need more sounds than that, you’d probably be better off with a dedicated midi foot controller.

Edit: Damn man. Nice stable you’ve got going there!

Edit2: The midi not being a through is easy to work around. If you run out from a midi controller to a device with real midi through, then into the Invective last, it works fine. I tested the Morningstar MC6 through my TC50.


----------



## 7 Stringer

Deadpool_25 said:


> Just going off what I read in the manual here so I could be wrong, but...
> 
> It depends what you need the FX8 to do. The one negative thing I’ve found about the Invective is that the midi out is not a true through. Meaning the only messages it will pass are messages that were valid for the Invective. From the manual, this is so the Invective FS can control multiple Invectives.
> 
> I think as advanced as you’ll be able to get is using the FS in preset mode and having that call up presets in the FX8. In that case you’d be limited to 9 presets. If you need more sounds than that, you’d probably be better off with a dedicated midi foot controller.
> 
> Edit: Damn man. Nice stable you’ve got going there!
> 
> Edit2: The midi not being a through is easy to work around. If you run out from a midi controller to a device with real midi through, then into the Invective last, it works fine. I tested the Morningstar MC6 through my TC50.



God damn, started fiddling with this this morning and bam, no more sound out of the Invective!!! Pressed the master boost and it came back, for 10 seconds, then no more.

Changed speaker cable,guitar cable, unplugged everything, still nothing. No hiss from the pre amp, fuse is good.

Bad tube? Bad pre amp tube? Blown internal fuse?

Weird.


----------



## 7 Stringer

Gotta go do something but will check this out later.

Thanks for the info on the midi topic.


----------



## Deadpool_25

Ruh oh. That’s a bad sign. What were you doing at the time? Messing with midi stuff or just using the amp normally?


----------



## DudeManBrother




----------



## 7 Stringer

Deadpool_25 said:


> Ruh oh. That’s a bad sign. What were you doing at the time? Messing with midi stuff or just using the amp normally?


Was checking out presets and just playing in general before plugging in the editor. Only had the midi cable and effects loop 1 plugged into the FX8.

Will go check a bit later.


----------



## Unleash The Fury

7 Stringer said:


> God damn, started fiddling with this this morning and bam, no more sound out of the Invective!!! Pressed the master boost and it came back, for 10 seconds, then no more.
> 
> Changed speaker cable,guitar cable, unplugged everything, still nothing. No hiss from the pre amp, fuse is good.
> 
> Bad tube? Bad pre amp tube? Blown internal fuse?
> 
> Weird.


Hopefully someone can address this because thats not cool lol.


----------



## 7 Stringer

Unleash The Fury said:


> Hopefully someone can address this because thats not cool lol.



Ok, had time to poke around, found the issue. The impedance selector switch, i played around with it and the sound came back. Had a little scratchy sound from 16 to 8, then everything was fine.

Just a little quirk, hope everything stays fine. Sounds massive now, seems louder, maybe related to the previous issue of volume???

Back to playing. I will fiddle with the midi stuff tomorrow, got some people coming over for dinner.


----------



## Deadpool_25

7 Stringer said:


> Was checking out presets and just playing in general before plugging in the editor. Only had the midi cable and effects loop 1 plugged into the FX8.
> 
> Will go check a bit later.



Interesting. What midi cable from FX8 to Invective? The one from the foot switch?


----------



## Deadpool_25

7 Stringer said:


> Ok, had time to poke around, found the issue. The impedance selector switch, i played around with it and the sound came back. Had a little scratchy sound from 16 to 8, then everything was fine.
> 
> Just a little quirk, hope everything stays fine. Sounds massive now, seems louder, maybe related to the previous issue of volume???
> 
> Back to playing. I will fiddle with the midi stuff tomorrow, got some people coming over for dinner.



Ah cool. Well that seems odd for that to happen out of the blue but I’m glad it’s back working again.


----------



## 7 Stringer

Deadpool_25 said:


> Ah cool. Well that seems odd for that to happen out of the blue but I’m glad it’s back working again.



Yeah me too, thanks.

Was playing around creating sounds with the FX8, man, that thing sounds awesome. Better than my G System. And i think i am gonna be selling my H9, FX8 sounds more musical to me, less science fiction soundtrack type tones.

Now if i can figure out my midi setup i want to create, i will be golden!!!!!


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Glad everything is back to normal. It might've been stuck between two settings on the impedance switch, and some vibrations finally made it settle on an actual indent on the switch rather than in between. Just a wild guess.


----------



## 7 Stringer

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Glad everything is back to normal. It might've been stuck between two settings on the impedance switch, and some vibrations finally made it settle on an actual indent on the switch rather than in between. Just a wild guess.





Yes sir, me too. Thanks.


----------



## Deadpool_25

7 Stringer said:


> Yeah me too, thanks.
> 
> Was playing around creating sounds with the FX8, man, that thing sounds awesome. Better than my G System. And i think i am gonna be selling my H9, FX8 sounds more musical to me, less science fiction soundtrack type tones.
> 
> Now if i can figure out my midi setup i want to create, i will be golden!!!!!



I recently sold mine but the FX8 is awesome. I replied to your thread on the other forum. I think it can do what you want.


----------



## 7 Stringer

Deadpool_25 said:


> I recently sold mine but the FX8 is awesome. I replied to your thread on the other forum. I think it can do what you want.



Just replied over there, thanks man, that setup is gonna rock.

If the gate works good on the FX8, i will be able to knock my Decimator out, or the Zuul, witch is incoming soon........


----------



## Meeotch

Looking forward to your review of the Zuul. Do you have the G-String II?


----------



## 7 Stringer

Meeotch said:


> Looking forward to your review of the Zuul. Do you have the G-String II?



Should be here tomorrow or Tuesday... I hope!!!

I have the Decimator II, two of them. Linked and they work awesome. Had the pro rack and it sucked some tone, while the individual pedals don't. I had the G string a while back and it worked great but sold it to fund the pro rack, then sold that to fund the two Decimators.... 

The Zuul seems to work great, i have an input gate on the Invective so i will put it in the loop and compare it with the FX8 one.

I will report back.


----------



## MetalCapsFan

Hey all! Great thread, been following since the first announcement of the impending release of the Invective. Just placed an order through Sweetwater a couple of days ago, sales rep confirmed they'd be getting another batch by the end of December. I'm trying to get some info on how far down the list I am since I know a lot of people on here put orders in months ago. I'll report back if I have any news. Cheers!


----------



## MetalCapsFan

Ok, got a little bit more info from Sweetwater, my sales dude left me a message a little while ago, said I was 2nd to last on the list, but that there weren't a lotta people ahead of me. He again confirmed that Peavey was sending a batch of amps by late December, and that, if they send the amount expected, then all existing orders would be able to be filled. He hedged a little bit though saying he'd alert me if there was any change in the actual amount of amps Sweetwater would be able to obtain. So, fingers crossed that the production has ramped up enough to fill demand across the various outlets offering the Invective for sale. Good luck all!


----------



## Ironbird666

7 Stringer said:


> Yeah me too, thanks.
> 
> Was playing around creating sounds with the FX8, man, that thing sounds awesome. Better than my G System. And i think i am gonna be selling my H9, FX8 sounds more musical to me, less science fiction soundtrack type tones.
> 
> Now if i can figure out my midi setup i want to create, i will be golden!!!!!



Hey man, maybe I can help? I use my Invective (oh yeah my bad, I should have updated earlier.... I'll give my thought a bit later this weekend. I like it a lot, more details to follow) with a MIDI pedal switcher that changes channels and turns pedals off/on. Here's what I did:

In the manual, you'll see the settings for 9 user programmable presets, right? So, you can set the amp to switch on/off basically any function the amp is able to do and program it to MIDI function 1-9, which corresponds to the supplied pedalboard the amp comes with. Their intent was for you to use the pedalboard they sent BUT you can use any MIDI device to trigger those MIDI functions you've now programmed into the amp. For instance, I programmed a basic clean setting using MIDI 1 on my amp. It's the clean channel with FX Loop 1 activated. Now, I unplugged the supplied board, plugged in my board to the MIDI footswitch plug, and programmed the patch I wanted to recall the clean channel. I repeated using the user defined MIDI functions I created with the Peavey board until I set up all the sounds I wanted using about 3 banks with 4 patches and multiple variations of pedals. 

It's not too hard to do and if you have any questions hit me up and I'll do my best to help you out. If you look through the manual you should be able to find the section I'm talking about though. I don't have a FX8 but I'm sure all you'll need to do is set the MIDI change function for your amp (user defined functions you programmed using MIDI 1-9), set your fx, then store to whatever system of banks or patches you use with that particular device. Good luck man, hope you figure it out!


----------



## 7 Stringer

Hey man, thanks for the tips, really appreciate the help.

I started programming patches the other day and it is working pretty well. I get what your saying, i looked at that table that tells exactly what each CC command triggers in the Invective. If i decide to use the FX8 as the main board, i will for sure need your help!!!!! Or deadpool too, i will be in over my head then. 

But once you get your head around all this midi stuff, it gets easier to understand it all, i am getting there...Slowly....but surely!!!! Lol

Chris


----------



## Palmer6strings

So from what I’m understanding, you cannot run something like a Voodoo Labs Hex along with the footswitch the Invective comes with?
I’m really wanting to start using midi to have my pedals preset and was hoping this amp would let me do that.

Also, after a lot of playing by myself and with my band, I’m still not that satisfied with the volume on this amp. It’s baffling the fuck out of me... I have to have both post gain and master at around 8 with the master boost maxed to compare with the 6505+ and at that high of volume the Invective starts to sound flubby.
I love this amp but what should I do.

Hate to bring up gates again, but I’m curious how you all are using yours.
In the past I’ve always just lived with the hiss but now that my amp has a pre gate build in, I decided to move my noise suppressor to the loop. Well on my lead channel to have no hiss I have to max the pedal and to remove feedback I have to set the gate to around 8... which in turn leaves me with no sustain whatsoever...

Ugh...


----------



## Deadpool_25

7 Stringer said:


> Hey man, thanks for the tips, really appreciate the help.
> 
> I started programming patches the other day and it is working pretty well. I get what your saying, i looked at that table that tells exactly what each CC command triggers in the Invective. If i decide to use the FX8 as the main board, i will for sure need your help!!!!! Or deadpool too, i will be in over my head then.
> 
> But once you get your head around all this midi stuff, it gets easier to understand it all, i am getting there...Slowly....but surely!!!! Lol
> 
> Chris



Yeah man it gets a little confusing at first but it’s certainly doable. We’ll get you all setup!



Palmer6strings said:


> So from what I’m understanding, you cannot run something like a Voodoo Labs Hex along with the footswitch the Invective comes with?
> I’m really wanting to start using midi to have my pedals preset and was hoping this amp would let me do that.
> 
> Also, after a lot of playing by myself and with my band, I’m still not that satisfied with the volume on this amp. It’s baffling the fuck out of me... I have to have both post gain and master at around 8 with the master boost maxed to compare with the 6505+ and at that high of volume the Invective starts to sound flubby.
> I love this amp but what should I do.
> 
> Hate to bring up gates again, but I’m curious how you all are using yours.
> In the past I’ve always just lived with the hiss but now that my amp has a pre gate build in, I decided to move my noise suppressor to the loop. Well on my lead channel to have no hiss I have to max the pedal and to remove feedback I have to set the gate to around 8... which in turn leaves me with no sustain whatsoever...
> 
> Ugh...



Yes you can run a midi switcher with the stock pedal. It’s somewhat non-intuitive though. You’d run your stock pedal to the amp, then run the amp’s midi out back to the Hex. When you activate a preset on the pedal it can recall a preset on the hex.

I’m using a Morningstar MC6 instead of the stock pedal and a Morningstar ML5 midi switcher (it’s kinda like the hex). Very powerful setup.

If it’s sounding flubby to you here are a few options:

1. Try engaging the boost, dialing the tone up a little (may not help, but try it anyway) and messing with the level.

2. If that doesn’t help, try dialing the resonance and/or bass back a bit.

3. Try an EQ in the loop. I have an MXR M109S 6-band sitting on the head. I run it in loop 1 and my delay and reverb in loop 2. This is probably my favorite option for you because you can use it to reduce some low end flub and also increase your volume, allowing you to reduce that master boost and/or master volume a bit to remove some hiss and feedback.

4. If none of the above work for you to reduce the flub (I’d be surprised if they don’t) you could try using a Precision Drive. I have one and the Attack knob does a great job reducing flubbiness. I haven’t needed it for the Invective as the built in boost works great, but I’m putting it on the board because I’m running a stereo rig and the second amp (TC-50) can benefit from the PD.

On the gate, I’m planning on putting my smart gate in loop 1 right after the EQ. If playing at very loud volume, I’d dial it in to reduce hiss to a minimum while not losing too much sustain; it’s a balancing act so a small amount of hiss would be tolerable.


----------



## Deadpool_25

Oops. Double post


----------



## Palmer6strings

Deadpool_25 said:


> Yeah man it gets a little confusing at first but it’s certainly doable. We’ll get you all setup!
> 
> 
> 
> Yes you can run a midi switcher with the stock pedal. It’s somewhat non-intuitive though. You’d run your stock pedal to the amp, then run the amp’s midi out back to the Hex. When you activate a preset on the pedal it can recall a preset on the hex.
> 
> I’m using a Morningstar MC6 instead of the stock pedal and a Morningstar ML5 midi switcher (it’s kinda like the hex). Very powerful setup.
> 
> If it’s sounding flubby to you here are a few options:
> 
> 1. Try engaging the boost, dialing the tone up a little (may not help, but try it anyway) and messing with the level.
> 
> 2. If that doesn’t help, try dialing the resonance and/or bass back a bit.
> 
> 3. Try an EQ in the loop. I have an MXR M109S 6-band sitting on the head. I run it in loop 1 and my delay and reverb in loop 2. This is probably my favorite option for you because you can use it to reduce some low end flub and also increase your volume, allowing you to reduce that master boost and/or master volume a bit to remove some hiss and feedback.
> 
> 4. If none of the above work for you to reduce the flub (I’d be surprised if they don’t) you could try using a Precision Drive. I have one and the Attack knob does a great job reducing flubbiness. I haven’t needed it for the Invective as the built in boost works great, but I’m putting it on the board because I’m running a stereo rig and the second amp (TC-50) can benefit from the PD.
> 
> On the gate, I’m planning on putting my smart gate in loop 1 right after the EQ. If playing at very loud volume, I’d dial it in to reduce hiss to a minimum while not losing too much sustain; it’s a balancing act so a small amount of hiss would be tolerable.


Ok, the midi deal helps. Thank you. How you all were talking about it confused and scared me some. Ha ha.
I forgot to mention, I was using the boost. And even though your answer is helpful, unfortunately, that would mean I have to spend a lot more more money that I don’t have at the moment.
I’ll try to mess with my setting a bit more in the mean time.


----------



## 7 Stringer

Palmer6strings said:


> So from what I’m understanding, you cannot run something like a Voodoo Labs Hex along with the footswitch the Invective comes with?
> I’m really wanting to start using midi to have my pedals preset and was hoping this amp would let me do that.
> 
> Also, after a lot of playing by myself and with my band, I’m still not that satisfied with the volume on this amp. It’s baffling the fuck out of me... I have to have both post gain and master at around 8 with the master boost maxed to compare with the 6505+ and at that high of volume the Invective starts to sound flubby.
> I love this amp but what should I do.
> 
> Hate to bring up gates again, but I’m curious how you all are using yours.
> In the past I’ve always just lived with the hiss but now that my amp has a pre gate build in, I decided to move my noise suppressor to the loop. Well on my lead channel to have no hiss I have to max the pedal and to remove feedback I have to set the gate to around 8... which in turn leaves me with no sustain whatsoever...
> 
> Ugh...



Yeah, i am really in the same situation man, i need my gate in the loop or else it's hiss mania.

And i too find the amp a bit flubby at high volumes. I found that playing the amp on the 8 ohm setting helped a lot, and also me putting 6550 tubes in there.

I will need to try it all out with the band tomorrow night but to date, i don't think it will replace my 5153. That thing with the precision drive is just insane, i love that amp.

We ll see.............


----------



## Deadpool_25

Palmer6strings said:


> Ok, the midi deal helps. Thank you. How you all were talking about it confused and scared me some. Ha ha.
> I forgot to mention, I was using the boost. And even though your answer is helpful, unfortunately, that would mean I have to spend a lot more more money that I don’t have at the moment.
> I’ll try to mess with my setting a bit more in the mean time.



Yeah mess with the settings a bit. The EQ is only like $80 and I think that would have you sorted out.


----------



## sleepy502

I don't understand how you guys can shell out $3000+tax CDN and then need additional EQ pedals and boosts and such. Thats completely unacceptable to me.


----------



## narad

sleepy502 said:


> I don't understand how you guys can shell out $3000+tax CDN and then need additional EQ pedals and boosts and such. Thats completely unacceptable to me.



I boost and EQ all amps...Engl, Diezel, Bogner... if you want to get nitpicky, then more control is always going to be a good thing. Completely independent of the price of the amp.


----------



## Deadpool_25

sleepy502 said:


> I don't understand how you guys can shell out $3000+tax CDN and then need additional EQ pedals and boosts and such. Thats completely unacceptable to me.



I think most users won’t _need_ anything additional outside of what they would for other amps...amps that cost just as much if not more.

Do you need an EQ pedal? No, but it’s nice to have and can be used to solve specific issues for some people. Do you need an extra boost? Nope. The only reason I have a Precision Drive on my board is so I can boost the TC-50 that is in my stereo setup—an amp that costs just as much and has fewer features (awesome amp though).


----------



## PrestoDone

sleepy502 said:


> I don't understand how you guys can shell out $3000+tax CDN and then need additional EQ pedals and boosts and such. Thats completely unacceptable to me.



how many amps have built in wahs, volume pedal, phasers, ect... if someone buys a $2000 + , amp and played it on the clean channel with the gain up on the od i see your point..my two cents


----------



## Deadpool_25

Someone put up a new video


----------



## 7 Stringer

Ok, i used the Invective tonight at band practice... Damn it sounded awesome. But......

Are you guys having feedback issues? I have the gain on the lead between 9 and 10 o clock and the boost is at 11 o clock. The amp is unusable without the gate, high volume yes, but even at a moderate volume it squeals like crazy

Even on the clean channel, boost at max, i get a little bit of feedback gotta watch where i stand.

Was thinking pre amp tubes maybe? Cause even when not playing, gate off, it is quite noisy.

But the tone is crushing, got it setup with my Nemesis delay via midi with presets and it is so convenient.

But that damn noise.......


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Might have a microphonic tube. Maybe poke at the tubes with a pencil eraser and see if it makes any funny noises. 

Really wondering if the Invectives shipped out with a bad batch of tubes.


----------



## 7 Stringer

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Might have a microphonic tube. Maybe poke at the tubes with a pencil eraser and see if it makes any funny noises.
> 
> Really wondering if the Invectives shipped out with a bad batch of tubes.



Yeah wanted to do that but had to leave after practice, i will bring some spare tubes next jam and swap a couple around just too see.

Wondering if anybody else has issues with this?

Besides that, i looove the amp. Has a lot of gain though, too much if you ask me.


----------



## Deadpool_25

7 Stringer said:


> Yeah wanted to do that but had to leave after practice, i will bring some spare tubes next jam and swap a couple around just too see.
> 
> Wondering if anybody else has issues with this?
> 
> Besides that, i looove the amp. Has a lot of gain though, too much if you ask me.



The Invective has what I'd consider a normal level of noise. It definitely becomes much harder to control with higher levels of gain, especially on channel 3. The input gate does help a lot IMO. With gain at 9:00 to 10:00 I wouldn't expect it to get out of hand, especially with the input gate on. However, it could likely also depend on how loud you're running overall.

What are your settings for gain, channel volume, master volume, master boost (on/off/level), channel boost level?


----------



## 7 Stringer

Deadpool_25 said:


> The Invective has what I'd consider a normal level of noise. It definitely becomes much harder to control with higher levels of gain, especially on channel 3. The input gate does help a lot IMO. With gain at 9:00 to 10:00 I wouldn't expect it to get out of hand, especially with the input gate on. However, it could likely also depend on how loud you're running overall.
> 
> What are your settings for gain, channel volume, master volume, master boost (on/off/level), channel boost level?


When the gate is on, it is controllable, but just before it shuts, you hear a EEEE. Then shuts down.

I was running on channel 3:

Gain-9h30
Boost-11
Bass-10
Mids-1
High-1
Post-3
Master-3
No master boost

This is in o clock. It was uncontrollable without the input gate, like impossible even far away.


----------



## Deadpool_25

Gotcha. Yeah you'll definitely get some feedback until the gate kicks in. Do you use the master boost for solos or anything? If not, you might experiment with dialing down the master volume and/or post and seeing what effect using the master boost to raise volume has. It may not help at all, but you never know until you try lol.


----------



## 7 Stringer

Deadpool_25 said:


> Gotcha. Yeah you'll definitely get some feedback until the gate kicks in. Do you use the master boost for solos or anything? If not, you might experiment with dialing down the master volume and/or post and seeing what effect using the master boost to raise volume has. It may not help at all, but you never know until you try lol.



Yeah i was thinking of trying that out. I was using the master boost on the lead channel without the channel boost on. Bit i was lacking a little gain for my leads.

I will fiddle more with it next Sunday, won't have access to it till then.

Thanks


----------



## Palmer6strings

Well... lol... not really lol. I just lost my gain channels.
was playing away, trying to get a bit better toan.
Then it sounded like someone stepped on a mouse a few times then nothing. Still got cleans. No gain...

Time to call up Sweetwater... Again.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Palmer6strings said:


> Well... lol... not really lol. I just lost my gain channels.
> was playing away, trying to get a bit better toan.
> Then it sounded like someone stepped on a mouse a few times then nothing. Still got cleans. No gain...
> 
> Time to call up Sweetwater... Again.


If you have cleans, but no gain channels, then my guess would be that a tube stage for the gain channels shit the bed. Hopefully that's all it is.


----------



## beavis2306

Palmer6strings said:


> Then it sounded like someone stepped on a mouse a few times then nothing.



Hahaha, i laughed out loud at that. Sucks about the amp trouble though.


----------



## Deadpool_25

Palmer6strings said:


> Well... lol... not really lol. I just lost my gain channels.
> was playing away, trying to get a bit better toan.
> Then it sounded like someone stepped on a mouse a few times then nothing. Still got cleans. No gain...
> 
> Time to call up Sweetwater... Again.



Wel dammmmnnnn. That sucks. Hope you get it figured out and sorted soon.


----------



## Shoeless_jose

This amp looked so insanely awesome when it was announced, all the delays, and the seemingly myriad of problems that people are having is a huge bummer. It's not something I would have been picking up anytime soon no matter what but still no fun.


----------



## JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo

Periphery tour diary has a clip of Misha playing Ragnaroks through it at 2:57. Sounds pretty beef!


----------



## narad

Ha, I liked their chant.


----------



## Deadpool_25

Dineley said:


> This amp looked so insanely awesome when it was announced, all the delays, and the seemingly myriad of problems that people are having is a huge bummer. It's not something I would have been picking up anytime soon no matter what but still no fun.



Well, knock on wood, but so far so good here and now that the stereo rig with the TC-50 and pedalboard is up and running....holy hell what a sound. Just amazing and insanely fun. Couldn’t be happier.



OliOliver said:


> Periphery tour diary has a clip of Misha playing Ragnaroks through it at 2:57. Sounds pretty beef!




I just had a set of Ragnaroks installed in an Ibanez RGA42FM (the blue one). The guy called to tell me it was done and said it sounded amazing. When I picked it up he was asking about them and looking them up. I got it home and damn is he right.


----------



## JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo

Deadpool_25 said:


> I just had a set of Ragnaroks installed in an Ibanez RGA42FM (the blue one). The guy called to tell me it was done and said it sounded amazing. When I picked it up he was asking about them and looking them up. I got it home and damn is he right.



Yeah, I'm totally interested, it's just been slow to get a good set of demos. A lot of money for something I'm not so sure on yet.


----------



## Ironbird666

Sucks to hear so many people are having issues with there Invectives. I've yet to have an issue with mine. I find it's plenty loud as well, more than loud enough to compete with a drummer and my other guitarist, who happens to use a block letter 5150. Do I have to turn it up to 8 rather than his 5 on the volume knob? Sure, but who cares? That sort of thing doesn't bother me at all. I find the Invective has a much more useable volume control from 1-10 than the 5150 ever did. 

I also find it's much tighter, less flubby, more articulate than my old 5150 was without a boost on the lead channel. I have the channel volumes cranked for all of my channels since I'm finding that works best for me. I love it, no complaints here at all. I hope you guys work out the issues soon.

Oh, one more thing. The 5150 platform is fairly noisy to begin with. It generates feedback. It's raw, ugly, nasty, uncivilized even. Some things about it are a tradeoff for the kick ass, pissed off tone you get from it. You may need to adjust pickup height a bit with everything cranked up or lower your boost levels to help alleviate some of the extra noise and feedback. Hope that helps some.


----------



## 7 Stringer

Ironbird666 said:


> Sucks to hear so many people are having issues with there Invectives. I've yet to have an issue with mine. I find it's plenty loud as well, more than loud enough to compete with a drummer and my other guitarist, who happens to use a block letter 5150. Do I have to turn it up to 8 rather than his 5 on the volume knob? Sure, but who cares? That sort of thing doesn't bother me at all. I find the Invective has a much more useable volume control from 1-10 than the 5150 ever did.
> 
> I also find it's much tighter, less flubby, more articulate than my old 5150 was without a boost on the lead channel. I have the channel volumes cranked for all of my channels since I'm finding that works best for me. I love it, no complaints here at all. I hope you guys work out the issues soon.
> 
> Oh, one more thing. The 5150 platform is fairly noisy to begin with. It generates feedback. It's raw, ugly, nasty, uncivilized even. Some things about it are a tradeoff for the kick ass, pissed off tone you get from it. You may need to adjust pickup height a bit with everything cranked up or lower your boost levels to help alleviate some of the extra noise and feedback. Hope that helps some.



Yeah, i was concerned about the volume issue, but it is not an issue, we are not used to amps with a progressive taper like the Invective, it is usually very abrupt.

It is plenty loud to keep up with a drummer, no problem there. Just the feedback thing but i will lower my pickup height to see what it does. Problem is though that my main guitars are EVH Wolfies with direct mounted pups.......router time maybe!!!!!!

Besides that, it is awesome. I use two gates and the issue goes away. But it bugs me. I will try swaping pre amps tubes next time and see if that helps.


----------



## Ironbird666

Man, direct mount pickups drive me crazy! I neeeeed to tweak!


----------



## USMarine75

All this complaining and yet no one has sent me their Invective.

PS... My KSR Ares works great.


----------



## TheRileyOBrien

USMarine75 said:


> All this complaining and yet no one has sent me their Invective.
> 
> PS... My KSR Ares works great.


 
To be fair they have only shipped like 5 of them


----------



## Deadpool_25

USMarine75 said:


> All this complaining and yet no one has sent me their Invective.
> 
> PS... My KSR Ares works great.



I did send it to you. It didn’t arrive yet?


----------



## cmtd

Just checked guitar centers site out to see if this was still on for the 11/27 date they last had. Showing it pushed back again to 12/18 now. What is going on?


----------



## technomancer

TheRileyOBrien said:


> To be fair they have only shipped like 5 of them



It'd be funny if it wasn't completely false.


----------



## PrestoDone

saw periphery at the wiltern in los angeles last night. Misha was rocking two all white invective.120 (one on each side of the stage). It was on the green channel the whole show which means he is going through his axe fx for lead and rhythms and cleans with the infectives. Band played great. I have zero complaints about my invective, works and sounds great


----------



## Deadpool_25

PrestoDone said:


> saw periphery at the wiltern in los angeles last night. Misha was rocking two all white invective.120 (one on each side of the stage). It was on the green channel the whole show which means he is going through his axe fx for lead and rhythms and cleans with the infectives. Band played great. I have zero complaints about my invective, works and sounds great



I saw them in Phoenix last week. Great show. I suspect one of the other guys is also going through an Invective and using the Axe FX for preamp tones. It’s possible the Invectives are just there for looks too, as Misha has said they all use basically the same Axe patches. Regardless, yeah the Invective is awesome. I love it.


----------



## Drezik27

cmtd said:


> Just checked guitar centers site out to see if this was still on for the 11/27 date they last had. Showing it pushed back again to 12/18 now. What is going on?



Looks like it's pushed again. Guitar Center now says 12/28 and Sweetwater no longer has an expected date.


----------



## bracky

Ok I’m onboard sort of. I have three combo amps that I’m happy with (Peavey classic 30, Peavey valve king 50 watt 2x12, and Mesa Rectoverb 50. I’ve been wanting a 2x12 cabinet to pair with them for quite some time. I was going to get an Orange but I really like the specs of the invective cabinet so I ordered one. 

I ordered it from bhphoto whom has it listed for $650 which is $100 cheaper then everywhere else. I’m hoping all works out with the purchase and I’m really looking forward to hearing the cab.


----------



## pvampmgr

Hi All, got a tip from a Deadpool_25 user about this thread. I haven't been able to read the entire thread, but I know there is a lot of chatter about the delays. The truth is twofold. First off, the demand caught us a bit off-guard. We've shipped a lot more than people think, but this thing has been a hit all over the world, and we ship to many different countries, all of which have their own quirks regarding regulations and voltage requirements. Secondly, we've experienced some parts outages, which is totally random, but it does happen sometimes. We are working hard to get them out, we want everybody to get their hands on one!

Now to the question about the volume (I saw a couple of posts about it). I assure you the Invective is a loud beast. The confusion comes from the Boost function and the Master Volume. If you want all the Volume controls to operate the way you are used to, engage the boost and turn it all the way up, and crank the Master Volume. Then you are playing through a 120 watt head where the individual channel controls operate intuitively. The boost has a 10dB range, so if you do the math there's a huge range of output wattage. Boost is something that is a kind of misnomer. Frankly, there is no such thing as a boost on an amplifier. Everything else is a CUT. It isn't going to boost more than 120 watts, so in normal usage when the boost is off, you might be at 30-40 watts depending on where the master is set. Also, the Invective has a master volume, which totally changes the way the channel volumes operate. It's all very interactive. The 6505+ doesn't have a MV, so keep that in mind.

I go all over the world doing product launches and trainings and I'm not a high gain player, and the Invective has totally blown my mind on how versatile it is. The clean channel was designed not just for a closed back cabinet, but for the Invective cabinets. The built in distortion on it can give you some amazing rock, blues and country lead tones. The brutal high gain stuff is certainly there.

Please bear with us on the production schedule, no one feels it more than us I assure you. There's no big secrets about why it's been slower than normal, just some supply chain issues that we are working through. The dates you see online can be misleading, because it takes time for us to communicate a delay and more time for them to post it, so it can seem like it's all over the place. 

Working with Misha has been a real treat for us here at Peavey. The Invective has a great feature set, sounds great and everything on the amp was done because of his input, so my personal kudos go out to Misha.

Michael Smith


----------



## Ironbird666

Ahhhh, cool info on the boost function! I'll re-adjust my settings later and run the amp differently to check it out! I was able to get enough volume but I'll give this a shot since I'm not really using the boost. Thanks! I love the amp by the way, it sounds amazing!


----------



## Drezik27

bracky said:


> Ok I’m onboard sort of. I have three combo amps that I’m happy with (Peavey classic 30, Peavey valve king 50 watt 2x12, and Mesa Rectoverb 50. I’ve been wanting a 2x12 cabinet to pair with them for quite some time. I was going to get an Orange but I really like the specs of the invective cabinet so I ordered one.
> 
> I ordered it from bhphoto whom has it listed for $650 which is $100 cheaper then everywhere else. I’m hoping all works out with the purchase and I’m really looking forward to hearing the cab.



I got the cab back in July, I really like it.


----------



## Matt08642

pvampmgr said:


> Hi All, got a tip from a Deadpool_25 user about this thread. I haven't been able to read the entire thread, but I know there is a lot of chatter about the delays. The truth is twofold. First off, the demand caught us a bit off-guard. We've shipped a lot more than people think, but this thing has been a hit all over the world, and we ship to many different countries, all of which have their own quirks regarding regulations and voltage requirements. Secondly, we've experienced some parts outages, which is totally random, but it does happen sometimes. We are working hard to get them out, we want everybody to get their hands on one!
> 
> Now to the question about the volume (I saw a couple of posts about it). I assure you the Invective is a loud beast. The confusion comes from the Boost function and the Master Volume. If you want all the Volume controls to operate the way you are used to, engage the boost and turn it all the way up, and crank the Master Volume. Then you are playing through a 120 watt head where the individual channel controls operate intuitively. The boost has a 10dB range, so if you do the math there's a huge range of output wattage. Boost is something that is a kind of misnomer. Frankly, there is no such thing as a boost on an amplifier. Everything else is a CUT. It isn't going to boost more than 120 watts, so in normal usage when the boost is off, you might be at 30-40 watts depending on where the master is set. Also, the Invective has a master volume, which totally changes the way the channel volumes operate. It's all very interactive. The 6505+ doesn't have a MV, so keep that in mind.
> 
> I go all over the world doing product launches and trainings and I'm not a high gain player, and the Invective has totally blown my mind on how versatile it is. The clean channel was designed not just for a closed back cabinet, but for the Invective cabinets. The built in distortion on it can give you some amazing rock, blues and country lead tones. The brutal high gain stuff is certainly there.
> 
> Please bear with us on the production schedule, no one feels it more than us I assure you. There's no big secrets about why it's been slower than normal, just some supply chain issues that we are working through. The dates you see online can be misleading, because it takes time for us to communicate a delay and more time for them to post it, so it can seem like it's all over the place.
> 
> Working with Misha has been a real treat for us here at Peavey. The Invective has a great feature set, sounds great and everything on the amp was done because of his input, so my personal kudos go out to Misha.
> 
> Michael Smith



That's all well and good, and I get that delays and outages can cause issues, but this amp has been delayed and delayed and delayed over and over for nearly a year now. You mention how it was unanticipated and stuff and that each country has their own issues to deal with, but do you not already sell your entire line in all of those countries? How is any country-specific voltage or requirement a surprise by now? (unless you're expanding to new countries with an untested amp with production delays, which would be insane)

It's just weird that this is such a huge chance for Peavey to become extremely relevant again with a modern product for modern metal (not just riding on 5150/6505), and it's 1000% messed up and no one can seem to make sense of it.

I have a 6505 myself and love it, but issues like this are such a mark on Peavey's reputation


----------



## 7 Stringer

Thanks for the update and info on the boost, it all makes sense now!!!!!!

The Invective is an awesome amp, took a bit of tweaking to set it all up to my liking and the results are great!!!!!

The two loops and power supplys is pure genious, so convenient. No messy audio and power cables all over the floor.

And one thing i was soooo surprised was the ability to use deifferent power tubes, that should of been mentioned, it is such a great feature. I run mu favorite tubes in it right now and wow. 6550 tubes.

Chris


----------



## Deadpool_25

Matt08642 said:


> That's all well and good, and I get that delays and outages can cause issues, but this amp has been delayed and delayed and delayed over and over for nearly a year now. You mention how it was unanticipated and stuff and that each country has their own issues to deal with, but do you not already sell your entire line in all of those countries? How is any country-specific voltage or requirement a surprise by now? (unless you're expanding to new countries with an untested amp with production delays, which would be insane)
> 
> It's just weird that this is such a huge chance for Peavey to become extremely relevant again with a modern product for modern metal (not just riding on 5150/6505), and it's 1000% messed up and no one can seem to make sense of it.
> 
> I have a 6505 myself and love it, but issues like this are such a mark on Peavey's reputation



This post seems completely off base. The amp hasn't been delayed for nearly a year. Info about it leaked in January and it was officially announced at NAMM in mid-July where there was no release date given. Sweetwater and other places projected mid-August. Misha said the first shipment went out on October 11th, and we know they hit stores no later than the 16th (mine arrived October 24th). So the actual delay was more like _two months or less_...and that's assuming the mid-August date was ever "official" in the first place.

Some people are seeing longer delays. I agree, different countries' quirky regulations and such probably shouldn't matter all that much, though I don't know what exactly he means by that. But combining higher than expected demand and random parts outages, it's not hard to see why there are less in the hands of forum users than we might like.

And this is absolutely not "1000% messed up". The amp was delayed a little bit, but it's out there. There is higher demand than expected...because it's a great amp. They are having parts shortages...likely not their fault and likely due to the fact that demand is high...because it's a great amp. Misha has been in here more than we should expect with some updates and info. One of the Peavey dudes hears about this thread and stops by to communicate some info.

Is this "such a mark on Peavey's reputation"? Only if people aren't thinking about it rationally. My guess is when more folks start getting them in hand and posting about them, and posting clips, the Invective will definitely leave a mark on Peavey's reputation...a positive mark. Did I mention, it's a great amp?


----------



## pvampmgr

I think I created a little confusion about export units. What I meant was that we have about 7 or 8 variants of every product. There are only a handful of voltage variants, but more and more we have to jump through regulatory hoops in different countries. It's basically just paperwork and fees, but it takes time. That's all I meant. That hasn't created delays in the USA, but it has in other countries. I can't assume everybody on this thread is in the USA. I just got back from South America and they are going bananas for the Invective down there, where metal rules!


----------



## diagrammatiks

i think they really underestimated misha's ability to sell all the things.


----------



## Drezik27

Deadpool_25 said:


> This post seems completely off base. The amp hasn't been delayed for nearly a year. Info about it leaked in January and it was officially announced at NAMM in mid-July where there was no release date given. Sweetwater and other places projected mid-August. Misha said the first shipment went out on October 11th, and we know they hit stores no later than the 16th (mine arrived October 24th). So the actual delay was more like _two months or less_...and that's assuming the mid-August date was ever "official" in the first place.



Well to be fair to @Matt08642 I just checked my emails to Sweetwater, I asked them about it on May 19th and they said mid-July. So we went from Mid-July to about now. I got my cab on July 10th. I think everyone expected the amp and cab to ship at the same time no?

Either way....I did come across one at Motor City Guitar if anyone lives in Michigan. Looks even better in person, sounds awesome.


----------



## Matt08642

Deadpool_25 said:


> This post seems completely off base....



Are you on Peavey's payroll? All you've done in this thread is address customer complaints like a PR rep, talk about how amazing the amp literally like 5 people on earth have posted anywhere about, and get someone from Peavey to post in the thread. Based on this reply:



Drezik27 said:


> Well to be fair to @Matt08642 I just checked my emails to Sweetwater, I asked them about it on May 19th and they said mid-July. So we went from Mid-July to about now. I got my cab on July 10th. I think everyone expected the amp and cab to ship at the same time no?
> 
> Either way....I did come across one at Motor City Guitar if anyone lives in Michigan. Looks even better in person, sounds awesome.



People were being told this amp would be in their stores early/mid summer, not later dates. Those dates were all from delays.



pvampmgr said:


> It's basically just paperwork and fees, but it takes time.



I understand that, but why wasn't this kind of stuff done before the amp was announced, released, etc.



pvampmgr said:


> That hasn't created delays in the USA, but it has in other countries.



Except a ton of USA-based buyers who were on the preorder list have been waiting 6+ months for this amp to show up even to just try in a store.

Again, I love my 6505, I love Periphery, and from the live show I went to in early November, the amps sound good, but this kind of delay is inexcusable. Peavey isn't some rinkydink shop, they've been a prominent name in the guitar/amp/PA world for literally 40 + years. Mesa announces the JP-2C, and I can go try one at a store within a month. Peavey announces the Invective, delays it for months, and there's still only like 10 demo videos anywhere on the internet, including the ones from Misha and from NAMM.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Deadpool_25 said:


> This post seems completely off base. The amp hasn't been delayed for nearly a year. Info about it leaked in January and it was officially announced at NAMM in mid-July where there was no release date given. Sweetwater and other places projected mid-August. Misha said the first shipment went out on October 11th, and we know they hit stores no later than the 16th (mine arrived October 24th). So the actual delay was more like _two months or less_...and that's assuming the mid-August date was ever "official" in the first place.


Fake news. It was officially announced in January.


----------



## pvampmgr

Matt08642 said:


> I understand that, but why wasn't this kind of stuff done before the amp was announced, released, etc.



Because you can't. Agency testing requires actual products. All I can say is we're working on it and doing the best we can. No one can foresee parts outages, but we have a team of people on it.


----------



## cmtd

pvampmgr said:


> Because you can't. Agency testing requires actual products. All I can say is we're working on it and doing the best we can. No one can foresee parts outages, but we have a team of people on it.



The vague “we are working on it” just keep waiting is what got me to cancel my order. Emails to both the supplier (guitar center) and builder (Peavey) gave me no tangible info aside from “we are working on it”. That showed me no concern as a customer that pre-ordered months ago. 

Furthermore why are random shops getting amps in stock before pre orders are filled?

I’ve since moved on to a different amp, just sharing another opinion. 

PS. I’m highly suspicious of some shilling going on in this thread as well....


----------



## Deadpool_25

Drezik27 said:


> Well to be fair to @Matt08642 I just checked my emails to Sweetwater, I asked them about it on May 19th and they said mid-July. So we went from Mid-July to about now. I got my cab on July 10th. I think everyone expected the amp and cab to ship at the same time no?
> 
> Either way....I did come across one at Motor City Guitar if anyone lives in Michigan. Looks even better in person, sounds awesome.



Ah ok. However, it was mid-July until mid-October (when the amp started getting delivered). Assuming the amp and cab would ship at the same time is just that...an assumption. Not saying it's a completely unreasonable one, but it's still an assumption. When did you order it from Sweetwater? I ordered mine from Sweetwater on June 22nd. When I called to cancel it they were about to send it out so anyone who ordered before me (from Sweetwater) should have theirs if they didn't cancel.

Cool to hear about people seeing them in stores. @Nitrobattery posted about the one at Boynton. I called them a few days later and ordered it. They're out there.



Spaced Out Ace said:


> Fake news. It was officially announced in January.



Hm. Not that I've seen, but I'll take your word for it. Regardless, it seems the actual delay from projected release dates to actual release date was only in the neighborhood of 2 months...again, assuming Sweetwater was passing an official release date from Peavey (which I doubt based on my conversations with Sweetwater).



Matt08642 said:


> Are you on Peavey's payroll? All you've done in this thread is address customer complaints like a PR rep, talk about how amazing the amp literally like 5 people on earth have posted anywhere about, and get someone from Peavey to post in the thread.



Nope. If you say so; I think I try to balance all the ridiculous conspiracy theories and whining with a little patience and some common sense about how business works. But you go on whining if it makes you feel better. And the amp IS amazing...guess I'm one of those 5 people.


----------



## cwhitey2

I love how everyone is getting bent over pre-orders not being delivered on time... Who ever said ANY pre-order date was set in stone?

I understand people are mad, but come on...i read this thread everyday and just laugh.


Look at Fryette (who i adore by the way) with new products and get back to me.


----------



## Deadpool_25

cmtd said:


> The vague “we are working on it” just keep waiting is what got me to cancel my order. Emails to both the supplier (guitar center) and builder (Peavey) gave me no tangible info aside from “we are working on it”. That showed me no concern as a customer that pre-ordered months ago.
> 
> Furthermore why are random shops getting amps in stock before pre orders are filled?
> 
> I’ve since moved on to a different amp, just sharing another opinion.
> 
> PS. I’m highly suspicious of some shilling going on in this thread as well....



Why random shops are getting amps before preorders is a super valid question imo. Peavey should have had a better way to assess how many preorders needed to go out before non-preorder shipments.

Hope you like your other amp. Didn't you get a Sig-X or something?

No conspiracy here, man. I just love my amp.


----------



## narad

cmtd said:


> PS. I’m highly suspicious of some shilling going on in this thread as well....



True that. Guitar forums are shill-central.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

cwhitey2 said:


> I love how everyone is getting bent over pre-orders not being delivered on time... Who ever said ANY pre-order date was set in stone?
> 
> I understand people are mad, but come on...i read this thread everyday and just laugh.
> 
> 
> Look at Fryette (who i adore by the way) with new products and get back to me.


Yeah, because Peavey and Fryette are on the same level.


----------



## Deadpool_25

narad said:


> True that. Guitar forums are troll-central.



Fixed.


----------



## Matt08642

Deadpool_25 said:


> I think I try to balance all the ridiculous conspiracy theories and whining with a little patience and some common sense about how business works. But you go on whining if it makes you feel better



You're a goof then, lmao. I understand that your amp is awesome, I am happy for you, and I am happy for Misha for getting to design this kind of thing, but Peavey flat out dropped the ball on this from a distribution standpoint. If you think getting told for months on end that your stuff is delayed and then cancelling is "whining", then there is absolutely no convincing you otherwise, and that's also fine, we each have our stance on this.

This literally doesn't happen to any other company at this scale designing and selling amps that I have heard of in recent history. Going back to my JP-2C example, you can find videos of that thing anywhere. I can go to a store and try one. I can have one made with some wacky exotic wood and have it at my door _in LESS THAN A YEAR. _This all happened VERY shortly after release as well, none of this "well, there's actually paperwork" bs

To address the situation as a whole, I honestly just feel bad for Misha in this whole mix. I'm sure he wants these amps to sell like hotcakes. Nobody wants to have their name associated with this kind of shit.


----------



## pvampmgr

Deadpool_25 said:


> Why random shops are getting amps before preorders is a super valid question imo. Peavey should have had a better way to assess how many preorders needed to go out before non-preorder shipments.



This is because we fill orders based on first come, first served TO US. We have no way of knowing what orders are pre-sold to customers and which are not. The only way it can possibly work in a fair manner is for us to just go down the list. 



Spaced Out Ace said:


> Yeah, because Peavey and Fryette are on the same level.



I think you'd be amazed to talk to the boutique builders of the world and see their respect for Hartley Peavey. He knows more about tubes, why they were invented, who invented them, etc, than anyone in the business. He's still here every day, he's very engaged and one of the smartest people I've ever met. I'd better get off this thread now.


----------



## Matt08642

pvampmgr said:


> I'd better get off this thread now.



Thanks for dropping by!


----------



## KailM

A wise man once told me "good things come to those who wait."


----------



## narad

Deadpool_25 said:


> Fixed.



There's already a number of people here under pseudonyms that keep trying to prop up the things they're selling. Hate to get all red-pill/blue-pill on you, but if you've been here long enough you'd know them. Same thing happened on TGP so I stopped going there.

The core of the issue is that it's hard to make a living as a musician from the music itself. There is a huge incentive to partner up and create some auxiliary income streams through affiliates and marketing, and as just regular guys, there's many people trying to ride guitars as investments to flip. So yea, guitar forums can be great information sharing resources, but when it comes to finding out what to buy, proceed with caution.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

pvampmgr said:


> I think you'd be amazed to talk to the boutique builders of the world and see their respect for Hartley Peavey. He knows more about tubes, why they were invented, who invented them, etc, than anyone in the business. He's still here every day, he's very engaged and one of the smartest people I've ever met. I'd better get off this thread now.


I meant as far as the scale of the companies, not the people the brands are named after.


----------



## exo

People bent out of shape over the "pre-orders" situation shouldn't be aiming their ire at Peavey, unless they somehow managed to wrangle a direct order from Peavey themselves.

It's not Peavey's fault the stores set up a pre-order the STORES were unable to fulfil. That's on the various outlets that sold pre-orders without knowing how much stock they'd be able to fulfill.......


----------



## 7 Stringer

I cant fucking beleive this place, the Peavey guy comes in here trying to explain the situation and talking good and some goof ball comes in and steers shit up, again and babbles on and on.

Get the fuck over it, the amp is delayed, stop whinning. Play your other amps in the meantime.


----------



## cwhitey2

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Yeah, because Peavey and Fryette are on the same level.


It has absolutely nothing to do with 'level' 

We are talking about announcing a product and then it taking forever to actually arrive.


----------



## cwhitey2

exo said:


> People bent out of shape over the "pre-orders" situation shouldn't be aiming their ire at Peavey, unless they somehow managed to wrangle a direct order from Peavey themselves.
> 
> It's not Peavey's fault the stores set up a pre-order the STORES were unable to fulfil. That's on the various outlets that sold pre-orders without knowing how much stock they'd be able to fulfill.......


EXACTLY! Mad at Peavey for a stores mistake is pathetic. All this crap belongs in the first world problems thread.


----------



## mnemonic

Expecting a company to deliver on its word, #FirstWorldProblems


----------



## Deadpool_25

mnemonic said:


> Expecting a company to deliver on its word, #FirstWorldProblems



With due respect, when did Peavey, or even the retailers, give their word that people would have the amp in hand by whatever date?

Businesses are almost always hesitant to make promises out of fear they can't deliver. People had "we expect it on" dates.


----------



## technomancer

7 Stringer said:


> I cant fucking beleive this place, the Peavey guy comes in here trying to explain the situation and talking good and some goof ball comes in and steers shit up, again and babbles on and on.
> 
> Get the fuck over it, the amp is delayed, stop whinning. Play your other amps in the meantime.



Time to take a step back, everyone is allowed to express their opinions here. While we don't need mindless shit stirrers we also don't need mindless fanboys either. Bottom line is some people are going to be pissed when a company blows a release date and they are allowed to talk about it.

It's also not like this doesn't happen with at least a couple of announcements every NAMM from somebody or another


----------



## Lethalharmonic

Anyone have any idea what the "Input Gate" is designed after on this amp? Would it be the same as say throwing a Decimator between your guitar input and amp input etc?


----------



## Deadpool_25

Lethalharmonic said:


> Anyone have any idea what the "Input Gate" is designed after on this amp? Would it be the same as say throwing a Decimator between your guitar input and amp input etc?



Yeah, like putting a gate between the guitar and amp's input. No idea if it was designed with any particular gate in mind, but it works the same way. For those who want to quiet down some amp hiss at higher gate settings, an actual gate pedal in the loop is still something to consider.


----------



## diagrammatiks

The way I understand it...it's probably closer to the gate in the horizon then a real full functioned gate.
It's there to help get that staccato sound...not really to get rid of noise.


----------



## 7 Stringer

Deadpool_25 said:


> Yeah, like putting a gate between the guitar and amp's input. No idea if it was designed with any particular gate in mind, but it works the same way. For those who want to quiet down some amp hiss at higher gate settings, an actual gate pedal in the loop is still something to consider.



Yup, i am using a Fortin Zuul in the loop now and it kills all pre amp hiss and random noises. Very quiet, might i say dead silent!!!! At crazy volumes too.

While the Zuul has a key input, i put it in its own loop and have it switched out on my clean presets, works great.

Two loops is soooo convenient, more manufacturers should imllement this feature. I know Diezel has that on the Herbert, 3 loops!!!!!! Damn cool.


----------



## technomancer

Quick thread cleanup to remove the Fortin / Randall derail


----------



## 7 Stringer

Where did my reply go???? I did not mention nothing about Fortin in there.

Hmmmm, i think mu reply made sense so it got deleted.

Nice


----------



## Deadpool_25

diagrammatiks said:


> The way I understand it...it's probably closer to the gate in the horizon then a real full functioned gate.
> It's there to help get that staccato sound...not really to get rid of noise.



Sort of. Misha said in a video that the gate in the PD is there to for the staccato palm mutes, but also to get rid of any noise that would be added by the pedal. It also works to reduce/eliminate noise and feedback from the guitar's pickups.


----------



## Lethalharmonic

Heads up to everyone I sent my Invective back a week ago, now sweetwater has the unit up on their site for $1,600.00 it was a great amp & everything I said earlier with Deadpool about the Invective is true! I just wont find myself using as much of the features as I thought. 

I personally don't keep much gear around & try my best to only keep what I use. 

Also a real quick tip i found out on getting the original 5150 tone from this amp is to crank the Channel Volume to max & use the master only. All the Raw (Crunchy chest punch) tone will come back & all the Fizzy fuzzy etc. we have all heard in several of the Youtube Vids goes away.

I was more satisfied running it this way through my Attenuator rather than running it with channel & masters lower!

Thanks everyone I look foreward to checking this thread everyday! & who knows I might find myself with an Invective back in the studio with time!


----------



## Deadpool_25

So there's a cheaper Invective on Sweetwater? Let's see how quick it goes lol.

I think it's gone already actually.


----------



## Lethalharmonic

Deadpool_25 said:


> So there's a cheaper Invective on Sweetwater? Let's see how quick it goes lol.
> 
> I think it's gone already actually.


It's sold


Deadpool_25 said:


> So there's a cheaper Invective on Sweetwater? Let's see how quick it goes lol.
> 
> I think it's gone already actually.


Yup its already gone!


----------



## MetalCapsFan

Lethalharmonic said:


> It's sold
> 
> Yup its already gone!



Haha actually I think I'm the one who grabbed it, randomly looked last night to see if there was any update on when the amps would be coming in to Sweetwater, and it said 'demo avail for $1709." So, I called in @ 9am and had them cancel my original order which had me way down the waiting list, and saved a coupla hundred bucks in the process. Of course, I'd appreciate it if you'd gimme a heads up if there's anything amiss with the amp I should be aware of. Should be here on Sat, so will give some opinions on it soon. Cheers!


----------



## Deadpool_25

Congrats man. Let us know what you think when it arrives.


----------



## Lethalharmonic

MetalCapsFan said:


> Haha actually I think I'm the one who grabbed it, randomly looked last night to see if there was any update on when the amps would be coming in to Sweetwater, and it said 'demo avail for $1709." So, I called in @ 9am and had them cancel my original order which had me way down the waiting list, and saved a coupla hundred bucks in the process. Of course, I'd appreciate it if you'd gimme a heads up if there's anything amiss with the amp I should be aware of. Should be here on Sat, so will give some opinions on it soon. Cheers!



Everything works perfect on it!


----------



## MetalCapsFan

Lethalharmonic said:


> Everything works perfect on it!



Great to hear! I'm actually super excited to do some kinda stereo thing and match it up w/ my Ampeg VH-140 C amps. In Dying Fetus/Misery Index, we always matched the solid state VH series amps w/ various tube amps to fatten up the rhythm tracks in the studio. Looking forward to trying it live as well. Ready to do some experimenting!


----------



## Matt08642

Update from Steve's Music in Canada, they're waiting on word from Peavey.

Genuinely wonder if I could try & buy a Mesa TC-100, which was announced like 2 weeks ago, before I can even try an Invective?


----------



## cmtd

MetalCapsFan said:


> In Dying Fetus/Misery Index




Wait a minute....

Fan of both bands


----------



## MetalCapsFan

cmtd said:


> Wait a minute....
> 
> Fan of both bands



Sparky here, played gtr in D.F. from '99-2001, and gtr in M.I. from 2001-10. More recently, I've been playing live gtr for Fulgora. Adam Jarvis (M.I./Pig Destroyer) is on drums and his cousin John Jarvis (Pig Destroyer/Agoraphobic Nosebleed/Scour) is on bass. The vocalist LaMew actually writes all the gtr riffs (so far), but just wants to be a frontman and jump around live. Anyway, sorry for thread derail, but will def be using the Invective when Fulgora plays gigs in the future. Cheers!


----------



## cmtd

MetalCapsFan said:


> Sparky here, played gtr in D.F. from '99-2001, and gtr in M.I. from 2001-10. More recently, I've been playing live gtr for Fulgora. Adam Jarvis (M.I./Pig Destroyer) is on drums and his cousin John Jarvis (Pig Destroyer/Agoraphobic Nosebleed/Scour) is on bass. The vocalist LaMew actually writes all the gtr riffs (so far), but just wants to be a frontman and jump around live. Anyway, sorry for thread derail, but will def be using the Invective when Fulgora plays gigs in the future. Cheers!




Sick, actually played a gig with you then in Nashville, TN probably 2005-ish. Yakuza/Intronaut tour. About the time Discordia was getting ready to release I think.

Had to re-live a bit of nostalgia, sorry for off-topic


----------



## Deadpool_25

MetalCapsFan said:


> Great to hear! I'm actually super excited to do some kinda stereo thing and match it up w/ my Ampeg VH-140 C amps. In Dying Fetus/Misery Index, we always matched the solid state VH series amps w/ various tube amps to fatten up the rhythm tracks in the studio. Looking forward to trying it live as well. Ready to do some experimenting!



Cool. I built a crazy stereo rig with the Invective and a TC-50. It’s amazing. Love it.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

All the best Misery Index albums are the ones with the Sparky riffs and his crusty counter melodies/leads. Glad to see you here! \m/


----------



## MetalCapsFan

MASS DEFECT said:


> All the best Misery Index albums are the ones with the Sparky riffs and his crusty counter melodies/leads. Glad to see you here! \m/



Thanks very much for the compliments. Working on new tunes now so will def be using the Invective as part of the tonal variety in the riffage. Def feeling inspired by this new amp, has pretty much all the guts + bells and whistles I'm looking for. Def kudos to Misha for working to make this thing come to fruition for all of us. Cheers!


----------



## MetalCapsFan

Just got the amp, played it for a few mins, def sounds killer. Not sure if there is supposed to be a user manual, but none came in the box. Looked on the Invective page on Peavey's site, and there doesn't appear to be a link for a .pdf of the user manual to download. Maybe I'm just bad at the internet haha, so if anyone knows where I can find it, lemme know. Thanks!

ETA: at the bottom of the page, there is a link for a manual, but not a lotta info is contained in it, just a kind of basic overview and a bullet list of features.


----------



## MetalCapsFan

Went over to the forums on the Peavey site and found a download link for the manual in their Invective thread...

https://peavey.com/forum/download/file.php?id=17647

ETA: looks like you have to be logged in over there to access the file. I did leave a comment suggesting the link be added to the Invective page. The rep from Peavey who posted here a few days back offered to send me a hard copy of the manual, so all is good!


----------



## Deadpool_25

MetalCapsFan said:


> Went over to the forums on the Peavey site and found a download link for the manual in their Invective thread...
> 
> https://peavey.com/forum/download/file.php?id=17647
> 
> ETA: looks like you have to be logged in over there to access the file. I did leave a comment suggesting the link be added to the Invective page. The rep from Peavey who posted here a few days back offered to send me a hard copy of the manual, so all is good!



Awesome. Spent some more time dialing in the stereo rig (Invective + TC-50) including getting most of the MIDI stuff set up.


----------



## Deadpool_25

Spent some time with just the Invective. We have discussed that the amp might have too much gain but I was able to get some nice mid gain tones on the clean channel with the drive boost engaged. 

Basically I had it setup as 4 channels: clean, mid-gain, high-mid-gain, high-gain. There’s room to either decrease or increase any of the gain knobs. Just playing at home and at these settings everything is about 97 dB with a Les Paul in the bridge (clean with the neck pickup is about 93 dB). Master boost is off.


----------



## Palmer6strings

Sorry, but I forgot to update you all on my situation...
My Invective half died. So now it’s just sitting, not able to be played.
I was playing it one night a few weeks ago and i heard a bunch off fizzle noises and a few squeaks like a mouse and then I just lost all my dirty channels.
Called SweetWater and they are replacing it. So now I’m just annoyed and waiting for my new one to arrive.


----------



## diagrammatiks

Palmer6strings said:


> Sorry, but I forgot to update you all on my situation...
> My Invective half died. So now it’s just sitting, not able to be played.
> I was playing it one night a few weeks ago and i heard a bunch off fizzle noises and a few squeaks like a mouse and then I just lost all my dirty channels.
> Called SweetWater and they are replacing it. So now I’m just annoyed and waiting for my new one to arrive.



that just sounds like a tube issue. 5 minute fix.


----------



## Palmer6strings

It could be, I’ve already had to deal with the tubes in it once already. Im not going to just keep replacing tubes every month or so.
I’ve honestly had way too many problems with this amp already. I’m done screwing with it unless they want to keep sending me tubes.


----------



## diagrammatiks

Palmer6strings said:


> It could be, I’ve already had to deal with the tubes in it once already. Im not going to just keep replacing tubes every month or so.
> I’ve honestly had way too many problems with this amp already. I’m done screwing with it unless they want to keep sending me tubes.



you replaced all the preamp tubes already?


----------



## Palmer6strings

diagrammatiks said:


> you replaced all the preamp tubes already?


Yup.


----------



## feraledge

Palmer6strings said:


> It could be, I’ve already had to deal with the tubes in it once already. Im not going to just keep replacing tubes every month or so.
> I’ve honestly had way too many problems with this amp already. I’m done screwing with it unless they want to keep sending me tubes.



*Definition of invective*
: of, relating to, or characterized by insult or abuse

Sometimes naming things means you have to be careful of what you might be inadvertently wishing for.


----------



## Meeotch

Hey Misha - 

It's my understanding that the Invective 212 has a Chinese V30 in it. Any chance you compared that to a Mesa V30 when choosing speakers for the cab? I'd love to hear some opinions on this, and since the speakers act together to provide a definitive sound, I wonder if the Mesa V30 (being a bit smoother) would give the cab less cut overall, or maybe a less desirable sound?


----------



## bulb

feraledge said:


> *Definition of invective*
> : of, relating to, or characterized by insult or abuse
> 
> Sometimes naming things means you have to be careful of what you might be inadvertently wishing for.


Thanks for your contribution to the conversation.


----------



## bulb

Meeotch said:


> Hey Misha -
> 
> It's my understanding that the Invective 212 has a Chinese V30 in it. Any chance you compared that to a Mesa V30 when choosing speakers for the cab? I'd love to hear some opinions on this, and since the speakers act together to provide a definitive sound, I wonder if the Mesa V30 (being a bit smoother) would give the cab less cut overall, or maybe a less desirable sound?



I don't really know what the deal is with the Mesa V30 honestly, so I can't comment, but they seem to have them made to spec somehow. All I know is that the chinese V30 has been working wonderfully and they actually seem to be super consistent too, so if it ain't broke, don't fix it haha!


----------



## Deadpool_25

@bulb I don’t have experience with the 5150. Would you say the Invective has more gain on the crunch and lead channels? Is that one of the tweaks you made?


----------



## feraledge

bulb said:


> Thanks for your contribution to the conversation.


Sorry dude, didn't mean to distract the enlightening conversation that had been going on about faulty tube issues and unending complaints about production delays on your signature amp. Back on track.


----------



## bulb

Deadpool_25 said:


> @bulb I don’t have experience with the 5150. Would you say the Invective has more gain on the crunch and lead channels? Is that one of the tweaks you made?


Hmm it's hard to say for sure, they definitely both have more gain than I would ever use so it's something I have never actually compared!


----------



## Matt08642

feraledge said:


> Sorry dude, didn't mean to distract the enlightening conversation that had been going on about faulty tube issues and unending complaints about production delays on your signature amp. Back on track.


----------



## bulb

feraledge said:


> Sorry dude, didn't mean to distract the enlightening conversation that had been going on about faulty tube issues and unending complaints about production delays on your signature amp. Back on track.


Haha that's actually a hella solid comeback, can't even be mad. 
slowclap.gif

I get it, it's frustrating for everyone, me included. I just wanted to make a sick amp, and I feel like we really did create something awesome. However there have been a lot of problems getting the ball rolling, but it's always a bit of a battle getting these new products started from scratch. With that said, with all the other products, once they gain some momentum then everything tends to fall into place, so I really hope that's what will happen with this!


----------



## Palmer6strings

I just decided to ignore the guy bashing me for still having a problem with my Invective since it was an unnecessary statement. 
I understand there are problems with new products when they come out the door. I also know how to repair my equipment and just electronics in general when they start having problems. 
I’ve already done some tube work on my Invective. I don’t believe I should have to keep doing work on a brand new product again so soon tubes or not. That’s the point of having a warrantee. 
I wasn’t bitching about not liking the amp, not do I not want the amp. As a matter of fact I love the amp. The tone is amazing, otherwise I wouldn’t be upset about having an amp for the last 2 months or so that’s been unplayable for more than a month of that time.
I’m only upset about not being able to play this wonderful amp that is in my possession because of the problems I’ve had.
Sorry if I have ruffled some feathers in the process.

Misha, your amp is awesome! I just want to be able to play it. Lol.


----------



## FitRocker33

FWIW my Precision Drive has worked flawlessly for me since I got it months ago. 

So apparently not all of Misha’s developed products have issues. 

Granted, I’m only talking about a 200 dollar pedal, not a 2000 dollar amp lol...


----------



## narad

FitRocker33 said:


> FWIW my Precision Drive has worked flawlessly for me since I got it months ago.
> 
> So apparently not all of Misha’s developed products have issues.
> 
> Granted, I’m only talking about a 200 dollar pedal, not a 2000 dollar amp lol...



Manufactured by an entirely different set of people as well.


----------



## bulb

Palmer6strings said:


> I just decided to ignore the guy bashing me for still having a problem with my Invective since it was an unnecessary statement.
> I understand there are problems with new products when they come out the door. I also know how to repair my equipment and just electronics in general when they start having problems.
> I’ve already done some tube work on my Invective. I don’t believe I should have to keep doing work on a brand new product again so soon tubes or not. That’s the point of having a warrantee.
> I wasn’t bitching about not liking the amp, not do I not want the amp. As a matter of fact I love the amp. The tone is amazing, otherwise I wouldn’t be upset about having an amp for the last 2 months or so that’s been unplayable for more than a month of that time.
> I’m only upset about not being able to play this wonderful amp that is in my possession because of the problems I’ve had.
> Sorry if I have ruffled some feathers in the process.
> 
> Misha, your amp is awesome! I just want to be able to play it. Lol.



Thanks dude, I'm sorry your amp is not working correctly and I hope you get a replacement sent quick, Sweetwater is known for their customer service being awesome, so I hope you get this resolved quickly!


----------



## Palmer6strings

It’s all good man.
Honestly, SweetWater has been great about the whole thing. I’ve got a rep doing really well. 
I did talk to a tech today because my rep wasn’t in the office. They wouldn’t allow me a new set of tubes anyway. They said I should have the new amp by the end of December unless their shipment gets delayed.
I can’t wait to play it again.

I also have to add, dude, the clean channel is amazing. One of the best cleans I’ve ever played personally.


----------



## feraledge

bulb said:


> Haha that's actually a hella solid comeback, can't even be mad.
> slowclap.gif
> 
> I get it, it's frustrating for everyone, me included. I just wanted to make a sick amp, and I feel like we really did create something awesome. However there have been a lot of problems getting the ball rolling, but it's always a bit of a battle getting these new products started from scratch. With that said, with all the other products, once they gain some momentum then everything tends to fall into place, so I really hope that's what will happen with this!


Legit. Do I win a PD? 

It does sound like a sick amp. I don't think anything about the rollout really has anything to do with you, but it's crazy that Peavey seems to be having the issues they are with this (delays aside). If it was something new, like fucking with the gate, that'd make a little more sense, but badly seated and faulty tubes? They've been doing that forever. Hopefully it's just a hiccup and things roll out smoothly. I'm waiting for a call from a semi-local store to let me know when the rep has one to bring by. Might be the only time my ESP Custom leaves the house. 
It's more uncharacteristic of Peavey. Ten years ago, I bought a "6505+" "scratch and dent" only to have a delay and get it while in the studio and had a show the day after. "Scratch and dent" turned out to be "fell off a forklift" and half the front panel was gone (also, was a 6505), all smashed up. Despite that, it worked pretty perfectly, minus a little extra hum when using the loop. That's not just a workhorse, that's a tank. So hopefully they get their shit together and keep the Invectives at tank level.


----------



## Deadpool_25

narad said:


> Manufactured by an entirely different set of people as well.



My amp is working flawlessly. /shrug


----------



## narad

Deadpool_25 said:


> My amp is working flawlessly. /shrug



I know dude, I read your 20 other posts to that effect.

My point was that the pedals working has very little, if any, bearing on the amps working. There's no link between them other than having Misha helping to develop them both. It's not a criticism of the amp or the pedal. Different devices, different complexity, different price points, different parts, different people.


----------



## Petar Bogdanov

An entirely new amp (more complex than ever before) built in an entirely new factory is bound to have issues. In fact, it's a testament to Peavey's quality that 3 out of the 4 amps that were shipped work.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Petar Bogdanov said:


> An entirely new amp (more complex than ever before) built in an entirely new factory is bound to have issues. In fact, it's a testament to Peavey's quality that 3 out of the 4 amps that were shipped work.


75% is a plus, not a negative...? If you say so.


----------



## bracky

Peavey will get it sorted. Their track record is pretty darn good. 

I’m still awaiting my .212 cabinet and am now thinking I need the head also for a matching set. I do think I’ll wait a bit to order it until everything is up to speed.


----------



## Deadpool_25

So of the 7 or 8 people who have had their amps delivered, which of them has had issues? @Palmer6strings for sure. Who else? @7 Stringer?


----------



## Petar Bogdanov

People are so mad, they missed the joke about Peavey delivering only 4 amps in total.


----------



## Matt08642

Petar Bogdanov said:


> People are so mad, they missed the joke about Peavey delivering only 4 amps in total.



Don't worry, I saw and loved it.


----------



## GoldDragon

Palmer6strings said:


> I just decided to ignore the guy bashing me for still having a problem with my Invective since it was an unnecessary statement.
> I understand there are problems with new products when they come out the door. I also know how to repair my equipment and just electronics in general when they start having problems.
> I’ve already done some tube work on my Invective. I don’t believe I should have to keep doing work on a brand new product again so soon tubes or not. That’s the point of having a warrantee.
> I wasn’t bitching about not liking the amp, not do I not want the amp. As a matter of fact I love the amp. The tone is amazing, otherwise I wouldn’t be upset about having an amp for the last 2 months or so that’s been unplayable for more than a month of that time.
> I’m only upset about not being able to play this wonderful amp that is in my possession because of the problems I’ve had.
> Sorry if I have ruffled some feathers in the process.
> 
> Misha, your amp is awesome! I just want to be able to play it. Lol.



Thats true. If a particular item has those problems out of the gate, it might be something other than the tubes causing the problem. New tubes just don't blow up on their own. They are tested and graded before going into amps.


----------



## GoldDragon

Deadpool_25 said:


> Well, knock on wood, but so far so good here and now that the stereo rig with the TC-50 and pedalboard is up and running....holy hell what a sound. Just amazing and insanely fun. Couldn’t be happier.



How do both amps compare in the low/mid gain category?

Which is better at the fat, clean, edge of breakup sound? (where the input gain is driving the clean right to the point of clipping, maybe adding a bit of compression.)

Which is better at the cranked plexi growl? (AC/DC style?) 

I know this is subjective and depends on how loud you can crank them. Do both of them have a wattage control? Can you get honest to God power tube grind at reasonable levels?

Every amp I've played can do clean-clean and high-gain, how the amp behaves in the middle ground is what matters to me. Also, tube amps NEED wattage control these days.


----------



## Deadpool_25

GoldDragon said:


> How do both amps compare in the low/mid gain category?
> 
> Which is better at the fat, clean, edge of breakup sound? (where the input gain is driving the clean right to the point of clipping, maybe adding a bit of compression.)
> 
> Which is better at the cranked plexi growl? (AC/DC style?)
> 
> I know this is subjective and depends on how loud you can crank them. Do both of them have a wattage control? Can you get honest to God power tube grind at reasonable levels?
> 
> Every amp I've played can do clean-clean and high-gain, how the amp behaves in the middle ground is what matters to me. Also, tube amps NEED wattage control these days.



They can both do the edge of break up thing well. The Invective does it much better on the clean channel using the drive boost than on the crunch channel. The crunch channel has a bit too much gain for that application. The TC covers that ground with a few options. You can get those tones on the clean or crunch channel fairly easily. So the TC has more options for getting there, but they both have excellent edge of breakup tones available.

Cranked plexi? Well, I’d say both do it well with the TC having more options. Same thing applies. Clean channel with drive boost on the Invective. So for low-mid gain I’d give a slight edge to the TC just for having more options. 

Because of the way these amps work (with master boosts) you can do get the power tubes growling at “lower” volumes but I wouldn’t say those are LOW volume.


----------



## 7 Stringer

Great demo from Keith:


And no problems so far with my Invective, plenty loud and clear. 

Not super great crunch tones but not bad, too much gain on the crunch channel a bit for cranked plexi style. Miss my 5153 blue channel, that one kicks ass!!!


----------



## Meeotch

That was cool! Almost too much gain for my preferences, and it looked like the pre knobs were fairly low. Hmmm...is that an Invective 412??


----------



## LeviathanKiller

Meeotch said:


> That was cool! Almost too much gain for my preferences, and it looked like the pre knobs were fairly low. Hmmm...is that an Invective 412??



Yep, confirmed by his video description it is indeed an Invective 4x12.
I guess it'll be a X configuration of the 2 different kinds of speakers.


----------



## Deadpool_25

7 Stringer said:


> Not super great crunch tones but not bad, too much gain on the crunch channel a bit for cranked plexi style. Miss my 5153 blue channel, that one kicks ass!!!



Try the clean channel, not too low volume, pre gain around 1:00 or more, with the drive boost set between 1:00 and max and let me know your thoughts.


----------



## wakjob

Flame suit on...
I've watched every video on this amp so far.
And I know it's not the same as playing it myself but,

This amp sounds very dull, vanilla, flat, and uninteresting to my ears. There is nothing "tubey" coming across these vids that can separate it from a good high gain SS amp.

I love Misha and Periphery, and I'm sure if I had all of his sig gear and could play like him, this amp would be prefect for me.

But so far from what I've heard, this amp contains not even one thing sonically that I personally look for in a quality high gain tube amp.


----------



## GoldDragon

Deadpool_25 said:


> They can both do the edge of break up thing well. The Invective does it much better on the clean channel using the drive boost than on the crunch channel. The crunch channel has a bit too much gain for that application. The TC covers that ground with a few options. You can get those tones on the clean or crunch channel fairly easily. So the TC has more options for getting there, but they both have excellent edge of breakup tones available.
> 
> Cranked plexi? Well, I’d say both do it well with the TC having more options. Same thing applies. Clean channel with drive boost on the Invective. So for low-mid gain I’d give a slight edge to the TC just for having more options.
> 
> Because of the way these amps work (with master boosts) you can do get the power tubes growling at “lower” volumes but I wouldn’t say those are LOW volume.



Thanks. Thats what I thought, it would take a boost on the clean, and it all comes down to the quality of the built in boost/drive, which is tbd (for my ears).

Everyone raved about the JSX versatility ten years ago. I put a lot of miles on my JSX, but the gain channels were always compressed and had too much gain for the crunch channel, and the clean was dark and didn't respond to input gain well.

Is the Invective clean channel like the JSX, designed for "pedals" (active pickups)? IOW, it stays clean no matter how hard you hit it, (but when it does finally overdrive, it sounds nasty.) It would be a nice change if the invective clean could overdrive nicely depending on how hard you hit it.

I wish Peavey would stop putting the extra gain stage into their "crunch" channel and stop limiting their clean channels. Its amazing to me how peavey can add a million switches and options, yet it doesn't really make them more versatile.


----------



## 7 Stringer

Deadpool_25 said:


> Try the clean channel, not too low volume, pre gain around 1:00 or more, with the drive boost set between 1:00 and max and let me know your thoughts.



Yup tried that, i made a preset this way, sounds better to me than the crunch channel for this type of tone. But i cant use it all the time as i need my clean to be cleaner without the boost.

I fiddled with that briefly though, i need to spend more time with it but it is at my drummers place. I need to come in early and play around with thw amp more


----------



## Palmer6strings

wakjob said:


> Flame suit on...
> I've watched every video on this amp so far.
> And I know it's not the same as playing it myself but,
> 
> This amp sounds very dull, vanilla, flat, and uninteresting to my ears. There is nothing "tubey" coming across these vids that can separate it from a good high gain SS amp.
> 
> I love Misha and Periphery, and I'm sure if I had all of his sig gear and could play like him, this amp would be prefect for me.
> 
> But so far from what I've heard, this amp contains not even one thing sonically that I personally look for in a quality high gain tube amp.


From most of what I’ve seen on videos, most people run their EQ pretty close to flat and don’t seem to want to explore much past those noon settings.
When my amp was working, (lol, sorry I had to do it. Make light of a bad situation you know.) I would dial up my pres and res. Bass around 6 mids around 4 highs a solid 7.5. It then for me became a bright standoutish amp with a nice low end chug and it stood out fairly well.

Thing is nowadays there is so many products out and so many people using those products for their tone that it seems hard to have original tone. But that’s just my .02¢.


----------



## PrestoDone

Hey guys, quick update. Been playing daily for about an hour since i got my invective early November and no issues at all. I keep seeing people complain about this and they, but in reality unless you buy the hype its beat to wait to play one in person (when one to play is available). i play mostly thrash and melodic death metal, and to me this is a super versatile amp. The feature people are overlooking is the ability to swap different kinds of power tubes..still experimenting but i can say one this...this amp is bad ass...hope you guys enjoy it as much as i do.


----------



## TheRileyOBrien

wakjob said:


> Flame suit on...
> I've watched every video on this amp so far.
> And I know it's not the same as playing it myself but,
> 
> This amp sounds very dull, vanilla, flat, and uninteresting to my ears. There is nothing "tubey" coming across these vids that can separate it from a good high gain SS amp.
> 
> I love Misha and Periphery, and I'm sure if I had all of his sig gear and could play like him, this amp would be prefect for me.
> 
> But so far from what I've heard, this amp contains not even one thing sonically that I personally look for in a quality high gain tube amp.



Well it's essentially a 5150 with some extra bells and whistles. It is well established what the crunch and lead channels sound like. If it doesn't sound good to you, either you don't like the 5150 sound or the creator of the video didn't tweak the audio to your taste...


----------



## bulb

PrestoDone said:


> Hey guys, quick update. Been playing daily for about an hour since i got my invective early November and no issues at all. I keep seeing people complain about this and they, but in reality unless you buy the hype its beat to wait to play one in person (when one to play is available). i play mostly thrash and melodic death metal, and to me this is a super versatile amp. The feature people are overlooking is the ability to swap different kinds of power tubes..still experimenting but i can say one this...this amp is bad ass...hope you guys enjoy it as much as i do.



I'm glad you dig it! And yeah tube swapping is only not advertised more because you really should rebias the amp once you swap the tubes, and that's a bit of an advanced thing for most people.


----------



## Deadpool_25

wakjob said:


> Flame suit on...
> I've watched every video on this amp so far.
> And I know it's not the same as playing it myself but,
> 
> This amp sounds very dull, vanilla, flat, and uninteresting to my ears. There is nothing "tubey" coming across these vids that can separate it from a good high gain SS amp.
> 
> I love Misha and Periphery, and I'm sure if I had all of his sig gear and could play like him, this amp would be prefect for me.
> 
> But so far from what I've heard, this amp contains not even one thing sonically that I personally look for in a quality high gain tube amp.



Nothing wrong with that at all. If you don’t like it, you don’t like it.



GoldDragon said:


> Thanks. Thats what I thought, it would take a boost on the clean, and it all comes down to the quality of the built in boost/drive, which is tbd (for my ears).
> 
> Everyone raved about the JSX versatility ten years ago. I put a lot of miles on my JSX, but the gain channels were always compressed and had too much gain for the crunch channel, and the clean was dark and didn't respond to input gain well.
> 
> Is the Invective clean channel like the JSX, designed for "pedals" (active pickups)? IOW, it stays clean no matter how hard you hit it, (but when it does finally overdrive, it sounds nasty.) It would be a nice change if the invective clean could overdrive nicely depending on how hard you hit it.
> 
> I wish Peavey would stop putting the extra gain stage into their "crunch" channel and stop limiting their clean channels. Its amazing to me how peavey can add a million switches and options, yet it doesn't really make them more versatile.



Not sure about the JSX question. Haven’t had one for a long time and didn’t have it long (nice amp though).

The Invective does take pedals quite well. At least I like it with my JHS @ and my Riverside. It does have a crap ton of headroom. It stays clean all the way through max gain settings even with my hottest pickups (120W setting; still haven’t tried half-power lol). Hitting it with the PD (drive off, level at noon) does bring in a nice amount of grit. Sounds good imo but YMMV obviously. If you want me to try the same with an OD808 I can do that too.

There’s not an amp-only setting that I’ve found for edge of breakup with the guitar’s volume on full. The clean channel has too much headroom without its boost on. With the drive boost on and at minimum drive setting, you get into some more crunchy AC/DC territory. Adjusting the channel’s pre gain doesn’t really add or remove much dirt at all. With that said though, roll off the volume a bit and it cleans up pretty well and you can find edge of break up tones here. Or if you want, you can put an OD in front and do it that way.

Versatility? I can’t speak to other Peavey amps, but this one has plenty.

Edit: I tried the edge of breakup thing with humbuckers. Might try with a Strat later if anyone cares.


----------



## Deadpool_25

7 Stringer said:


> Yup tried that, i made a preset this way, sounds better to me than the crunch channel for this type of tone. But i cant use it all the time as i need my clean to be cleaner without the boost.
> 
> I fiddled with that briefly though, i need to spend more time with it but it is at my drummers place. I need to come in early and play around with thw amp more



I just read that again. You need your clean to be cleaner without the boost? I can’t get the amp to break up on the clean channel even with max gain. That’s what makes it a pseudo 4-channel. Build a clean tone you like, then kick in the drive boost with drive to taste for a really nice channel 1.5.


----------



## GoldDragon

Deadpool_25 said:


> Nothing wrong with that at all. If you don’t like it, you don’t like it.
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure about the JSX question. Haven’t had one for a long time and didn’t have it long (nice amp though).
> 
> The Invective does take pedals quite well. At least I like it with my JHS @ and my Riverside. It does have a crap ton of headroom. It stays clean all the way through max gain settings even with my hottest pickups (120W setting; still haven’t tried half-power lol). Hitting it with the PD (drive off, level at noon) does bring in a nice amount of grit. Sounds good imo but YMMV obviously. If you want me to try the same with an OD808 I can do that too.
> 
> There’s not an amp-only setting that I’ve found for edge of breakup with the guitar’s volume on full. The clean channel has too much headroom without its boost on. With the drive boost on and at minimum drive setting, you get into some more crunchy AC/DC territory. Adjusting the channel’s pre gain doesn’t really add or remove much dirt at all. With that said though, roll off the volume a bit and it cleans up pretty well and you can find edge of break up tones here. Or if you want, you can put an OD in front and do it that way.
> 
> Versatility? I can’t speak to other Peavey amps, but this one has plenty.
> 
> Edit: I tried the edge of breakup thing with humbuckers. Might try with a Strat later if anyone cares.



Thanks. You could have been describing the JSX, it sounds like Peavey still makes amps the same way. They always needed an OD pedal to get light gain, and the crunch channel is too compressed to get there on its own. Now the OD is built in, but who is going to pick that over their favorite drive pedal?

Whats weird about this amp design, to me is that if they built in a switchable boost, why would they make the crunch channel a high gain one, knowing that you can always just add the boost to make it so.


----------



## Deadpool_25

GoldDragon said:


> Thanks. You could have been describing the JSX, it sounds like Peavey still makes amps the same way. They always needed an OD pedal to get light gain, and the crunch channel is too compressed to get there on its own. Now the OD is built in, but who is going to pick that over their favorite drive pedal?
> 
> Whats weird about this amp design, to me is that if they built in a switchable boost, why would they make the crunch channel a high gain one, knowing that you can always just add the boost to make it so.



Who is going to pick that over their favorite drive pedal? I guess that’s a valid question but why doesn’t it apply to any amp? You either like the way an amp sounds better than you like a particular pedal or you don’t. And if you don’t, you keep using the pedal. I don’t know how the drive boost is designed but with it engaged the amp still feels like an amp to me.

And I’m not sure I understand your second question. You can’t make the crunch channel high gain with its boost. The drive boost on the clean channel and the OD-style boost on the crunch/lead channels are completely different. The boost on channel 1 has a drive control that affects actual distortion. The boost on channels 2/3 has a level control but no drive/gain control; it’s like a TS-style boost with the gain control hardwired off.


----------



## Lethalharmonic

bulb said:


> This speculation is silly because some of you guys are insinuating that Peavey is lying about where they are making the amp.
> 
> I normally wouldn’t do this, but just to nip this in the bud I’ll ask them to send a pic of the Meridian assembly line.
> 
> In the meantime to those who have the amp, just enjoy it. If this whole thing is too much for you, then honestly just return it, as there’s are a lot of people who are trying to get this amp. I’m willing to bet that they will enjoy it more as well, largely due to the fact that they won’t know or care that this amp happens to be made in Meridian, MS.



Any update on getting these pictures to confirm the Invective being "Assembled" in USA at the Meridian Plant??


----------



## narad

Lethalharmonic said:


> Any update on getting these pictures to confirm the Invective being "Assembled" in USA at the Meridian Plant??



Who cares where they're made if the success rate is only 75%! 

j/k, by all means these seem like simple fixes.


----------



## 7 Stringer

Jammed last night with the band at high volume and i still have feedback problems, the gate shuts but i have a little squeal just before, and if i sustain a chord, it goes into unwanted not pleasant feedback, quite annoying. And that is with the gain at 9 o clock, it's getting to the point of not enough gain. Even the crunch feedbacks at 10 on the gain.

I am thinking i might have a faulty pre tube. Sucks.


----------



## Deadpool_25

7 Stringer said:


> Jammed last night with the band at high volume and i still have feedback problems, the gate shuts but i have a little squeal just before, and if i sustain a chord, it goes into unwanted not pleasant feedback, quite annoying. And that is with the gain at 9 o clock, it's getting to the point of not enough gain. Even the crunch feedbacks at 10 on the gain.
> 
> I am thinking i might have a faulty pre tube. Sucks.



Interesting. Does make me wonder about having so much gain on the amp. Still, I don’t remember any mention in any of the videos so far about feedback issues and some of those had the gain set higher than you. Misha had it set about the same in the The Way The News Goes video and it seemed okay there. Merrow had it set higher I think. Wonder how that was.

Settings? Master boost on? Drive boost on? Where are you standing in relation to the amp?

Didn’t you swap out tubes? May be unrelated but have you tried swapping the original tubes out to see if it’s any different?

Edit: just remembered Misha used a piece of tape on the strings in the video I mentioned didn’t he? Hmmm. Idk


----------



## 7 Stringer

Deadpool_25 said:


> Interesting. Does make me wonder about having so much gain on the amp. Still, I don’t remember any mention in any of the videos so far about feedback issues and some of those had the gain set higher than you. Misha had it set about the same in the The Way The News Goes video and it seemed okay there. Merrow had it set higher I think. Wonder how that was.
> 
> Settings? Master boost on? Drive boost on? Where are you standing in relation to the amp?
> 
> Didn’t you swap out tubes? May be unrelated but have you tried swapping the original tubes out to see if it’s any different?
> 
> Edit: just remembered Misha used a piece of tape on the strings in the video I mentioned didn’t he? Hmmm. Idk



I have 6550 power tubes, but the pre amps are the same, even if i move around, i get feedback. Even on the crunch, volume pot lowered to about less than half, if i sustain a note, lets say to try to tune, i get feedback instantly, within two seconds. It really bothers me.

I am going to pick up the amp at the drummers place Wedensday and will go over it here at home.

As far as settings go, bass around 11, mids 1 and highs around 1 or 2. Drive boost 11, no master boost. Gain lime i mentioned is around 9 ish, 10. This is all in o clock.

I am even starting to want to bring back my 5153, and setup a basic WDW setup with a stereo 2x12 for my effects. 

Confused.....


----------



## GunpointMetal

Your feedback issue sounds like poor potting/microphonics in your pickups (unless they're active, then NVM).


----------



## 7 Stringer

GunpointMetal said:


> Your feedback issue sounds like poor potting/microphonics in your pickups (unless they're active, then NVM).



Well it does it with all my guitars, two with Suhr Aldrich pickups and two other ones with Tom Anderson H3+ and an HN3.

I dont think it is pickup related, but...... Never know.

I just picked up the amp, will fiddle with it.


----------



## Jacksonluvr636

Such an entertaining thread to read.

This amp sounds killer on the videos and I would not mind giving one a go. I will say that it sucks some people are having issues with their amps.

I personally think that is crappy. I am not sure why that happens, weather the product was rushed or not built with care or not I am unsure. But I do think it was announced way too early. To be honest, right now or maybe last month would have been a better time to announce. It took forever to ship one and a lot of the buzz seemed to have died and now some of the people who did manage to get one have issues? Crap.

However that is not Misha's fault or the Peavey Rep's either. Just poor judgement from whoever is in charge at peavey most likely.

Is what it is. Still probably a killer amp but nobody should have issues on their brand new $1,900 amp. But hey I guess according to a lot of people here people are just expecting WAY too much from their new gear lol.


----------



## Shoeless_jose

Jacksonluvr636 said:


> Such an entertaining thread to read.
> 
> This amp sounds killer on the videos and I would not mind giving one a go. I will say that it sucks some people are having issues with their amps.
> 
> I personally think that is crappy. I am not sure why that happens, weather the product was rushed or not built with care or not I am unsure. But I do think it was announced way too early. To be honest, right now or maybe last month would have been a better time to announce. It took forever to ship one and a lot of the buzz seemed to have died and now some of the people who did manage to get one have issues? Crap.
> 
> However that is not Misha's fault or the Peavey Rep's either. Just poor judgement from whoever is in charge at peavey most likely.
> 
> Is what it is. Still probably a killer amp but nobody should have issues on their brand new $1,900 amp. But hey I guess according to a lot of people here people are just expecting WAY too much from their new gear lol.




Although I don't approve of the constant ballwashing that Deadpool is giving Misha and the amp in defense of any flaws, this is not a case of people expecting too much.

And that thread about the guitars was totally valid, but an amp is a totally different animal than a guitar in terms of what is acceptable in terms of quality issues. But lets not get down this road. Had they leaked the amp now for NAAM this year and then instantly started filling orders this would have been a game changer of an amp and had huge buzz and momentum. 

I'm sure with the feature set it will still get a big share of the metal market, hasn't been many fresh takes in the amp world besides super boutiquey stuff.


----------



## marcwormjim

Just skimmed this thread for the first time: Perfect representation of ss.org, including that Deadpool kid actually being 47.


----------



## KailM

To be fair, we don't really know how many Invectives are out there in people's hands. Just because they're not posting reviews on SSrg, UG, or Youtube doesn't mean people aren't at home playing them and loving them. I, for one, am excited about this amp and hope it does well. God knows Peavey needs this to happen.

Anyway, peace and prosperity; happy holidays to you all. Too much negativity around here these days...


----------



## Jacksonluvr636

Dineley said:


> Although I don't approve of the constant ballwashing that Deadpool is giving Misha and the amp in defense of any flaws, this is not a case of people expecting too much.
> 
> And that thread about the guitars was totally valid, but an amp is a totally different animal than a guitar in terms of what is acceptable in terms of quality issues. But lets not get down this road. Had they leaked the amp now for NAAM this year and then instantly started filling orders this would have been a game changer of an amp and had huge buzz and momentum.
> 
> I'm sure with the feature set it will still get a big share of the metal market, hasn't been many fresh takes in the amp world besides super boutiquey stuff.


That’s exactly what I was meaning when I said they announced way too early. Buzz is gone, not to mention the 50w EL34.

I do disagree about the guitars though. A new product is a new product. Amp, guitar, pedal, car, tv, phone, whatever.


----------



## USMarine75

wakjob said:


> Flame suit on...
> I've watched every video on this amp so far.
> And I know it's not the same as playing it myself but,
> 
> This amp sounds very dull, vanilla, flat, and uninteresting to my ears. There is nothing "tubey" coming across these vids that can separate it from a good high gain SS amp.
> 
> I love Misha and Periphery, and I'm sure if I had all of his sig gear and could play like him, this amp would be prefect for me.
> 
> But so far from what I've heard, this amp contains not even one thing sonically that I personally look for in a quality high gain tube amp.



Just curious what amps do you prefer for high gain tube amps?


----------



## Matt08642

7 Stringer said:


> Jammed last night with the band at high volume and i still have feedback problems, the gate shuts but i have a little squeal just before, and if i sustain a chord, it goes into unwanted not pleasant feedback, quite annoying. And that is with the gain at 9 o clock, it's getting to the point of not enough gain. Even the crunch feedbacks at 10 on the gain.
> 
> I am thinking i might have a faulty pre tube. Sucks.



There is for sure something wrong. There is no way Misha and co. designed an amp to squeal with feedback at 9 o'clock on the gain lmao.



Deadpool_25 said:


> Interesting. Does make me wonder about having so much gain on the amp. Still, I don’t remember any mention in any of the videos so far about feedback issues and some of those had the gain set higher than you. Misha had it set about the same in the The Way The News Goes video and it seemed okay there. Merrow had it set higher I think. Wonder how that was.
> 
> Settings? Master boost on? Drive boost on? Where are you standing in relation to the amp?
> 
> Didn’t you swap out tubes? May be unrelated but have you tried swapping the original tubes out to see if it’s any different?
> 
> Edit: just remembered Misha used a piece of tape on the strings in the video I mentioned didn’t he? Hmmm. Idk



Ahhh, Peavey PR is here to save the day


----------



## 7 Stringer

Matt08642 said:


> There is for sure something wrong. There is no way Misha and co. designed an amp to squeal with feedback at 9 o'clock on the gain lmao.
> 
> Ahhh, Peavey PR is here to save the day



I certainly hope so, i will find some time on the week end to swap some pre amp tubes around and try to locate my issue. It sucks cause i really enjoy the tone this thing generates.

It does however have a LOT of gain, i dont get why they cram so much in there, after 1-2 o clock your maxed out anyways, why not make it usable up to max?


----------



## Matt08642

7 Stringer said:


> I certainly hope so, i will find some time on the week end to swap some pre amp tubes around and try to locate my issue. It sucks cause i really enjoy the tone this thing generates.
> 
> It does however have a LOT of gain, i dont get why they cram so much in there, after 1-2 o clock your maxed out anyways, why not make it usable up to max?



That's more or less how the 5150 circuit is as well. My lead channel gain stays at 9oclock


----------



## 7 Stringer

Matt08642 said:


> That's more or less how the 5150 circuit is as well. My lead channel gain stays at 9oclock



Yes, probably why i like the 5152 better a bit than the 5150. Less gain, more upper mid focus and tighter in the bass. Got my gain at 12 on the pre knob.


----------



## prlgmnr

7 Stringer said:


> It does however have a LOT of gain, i dont get why they cram so much in there, after 1-2 o clock your maxed out anyways, why not make it usable up to max?



Because the other way of doing it, people whine that they "had to turn the gain all the way up to get really high gain", either way I don't know why people put so much stock in how far they do or don't have to turn a knob to get the sound they want, provided the sound they want is in there somewhere.


----------



## diagrammatiks

prlgmnr said:


> Because the other way of doing it, people whine that they "had to turn the gain all the way up to get really high gain", either way I don't know why people put so much stock in how far they do or don't have to turn a knob to get the sound they want, provided the sound they want is in there somewhere.



because man if you don't turn it up all the way you are wasting it.
like if you buy a tv and don't have the sound up all the way allllll the time. you should have just bought a different tv. right.


----------



## wakjob

USMarine75 said:


> Just curious what amps do you prefer for high gain tube amps?



Fear Factory 'Soul of a New Machine' guitar sound is a pretty good baseline or starting point for the general metal tones I like.

Mike Fortin knows what's up.

I had a Friedman amp... It was ok.

When I had a Kemper, the Mesa Mark III and Engl Savage preamp profiles were incredible for me.

On the other hand, the first Periphery album had great guitar tracks too, so....


----------



## 7 Stringer

prlgmnr said:


> Because the other way of doing it, people whine that they "had to turn the gain all the way up to get really high gain", either way I don't know why people put so much stock in how far they do or don't have to turn a knob to get the sound they want, provided the sound they want is in there somewhere.



People dont know how to adjust their gain then, at some point you need to back off, only a big mess is then heard. A more linear taper on the gain pot would provide far greater versatility and lots of in between tones. Not everybody likes massive amounts of gain to the point of absurd.

Who will use the gain at 3 o'clock on the Invective????? 


Now i am not an electrical engineer and don't know how the internals interact with each other, but if this is the only way to acheive the tone of the Invective, then ok. But if not, it wouldl a big plus to have that gain knob more usable.

I have many other high gain amps and the gain levels are much more controllable. I heard talk of Friedman earlier in the thread, i have a modded BE100( for less gain!!!! Lol) and it can get super heavy with the Precision Drive and is clearer in the gain than the Invective. But i really enjoy the Peavey man, a really well thought out amp. ( Except for the amount of gain )

But hey, that's just me.


----------



## Palmer6strings

diagrammatiks said:


> because man if you don't turn it up all the way you are wasting it.
> like if you buy a tv and don't have the sound up all the way allllll the time. you should have just bought a different tv. right.



This was pretty funny.

One of my problems even with the master boost on was that I had to have everything pertaining to raise volume practically maxed for just practice and I don’t like that because I don’t feel it leaves me enough headroom in case if I need it louder yet.
Some venues I’ve played at don’t mix guitars through a PA because well... I don’t know... they are dicks who usually work with dicks that always play too loud? Just a guess.

But I’m hoping that was just a problem that my Invective had that caused it to break down.


----------



## GoldDragon

I'm sorry all you guys are having problems.

There are a number of things that could be causing the delays/issues that may be beyond Peavey's control. I wouldn't blame anyone for this. Sometimes problems arise; at least they are attempting to keep it price competitive and built in the USA.

There could be delays in receiving the parts they need from suppliers.

They could be having labor issues, workers may have sought employment elsewhere and they struggle to keep up with demand. Or they possibly needed to fire workers. (As everyone probably knows by now, Peavey was on Undercover Boss and it was a very unflattering view of their management and current culture.)

Defective parts from supplier causing issues.

Design or manufacturing flaws caused them to scale back production until they solve the issues.

My guess is probably a combination of the above. Something like an amp release is a "long game"; these will be on the market a long time. At some point PV will probably move manufacturing overseas and lower the price.


----------



## Unleash The Fury

GoldDragon said:


> I'm sorry all you guys are having problems.
> 
> There are a number of things that could be causing the delays/issues that may be beyond Peavey's control. I wouldn't blame anyone for this. Sometimes problems arise; at least they are attempting to keep it price competitive and built in the USA.
> 
> There could be delays in receiving the parts they need from suppliers.
> 
> They could be having labor issues, workers may have sought employment elsewhere and they struggle to keep up with demand. Or they possibly needed to fire workers. (As everyone probably knows by now, Peavey was on Undercover Boss and it was a very unflattering view of their management and current culture.)
> 
> Defective parts from supplier causing issues.
> 
> Design or manufacturing flaws caused them to scale back production until they solve the issues.
> 
> My guess is probably a combination of the above. Something like an amp release is a "long game"; these will be on the market a long time. At some point PV will probably move manufacturing overseas and lower the price.


They could very well be moving right now as we speak


----------



## crankyrayhanky

7 Stringer said:


> People dont know how to adjust their gain then, at some point you need to back off, only a big mess is then heard. A more linear taper on the gain pot would provide far greater versatility and lots of in between tones. Not everybody likes massive amounts of gain to the point of absurd.
> 
> Who will use the gain at 3 o'clock on the Invective?????
> 
> 
> Now i am not an electrical engineer and don't know how the internals interact with each other, but if this is the only way to acheive the tone of the Invective, then ok. But if not, it wouldl a big plus to have that gain knob more usable.
> 
> I have many other high gain amps and the gain levels are much more controllable. I heard talk of Friedman earlier in the thread, i have a modded BE100( for less gain!!!! Lol) and it can get super heavy with the Precision Drive and is clearer in the gain than the Invective. But i really enjoy the Peavey man, a really well thought out amp. ( Except for the amount of gain )
> 
> But hey, that's just me.


On my 515 50w head, I slapped a 12au7 in a red channel slot and it delivered just this^
Previously, 9 -10 o'clock was the most you could dial. With the au7, I can now get similar tones but have a wider sweep. 12- 2oclock is where it usually is but almost every setting is usable now.


----------



## 7 Stringer

crankyrayhanky said:


> On my 515 50w head, I slapped a 12au7 in a red channel slot and it delivered just this^
> Previously, 9 -10 o'clock was the most you could dial. With the au7, I can now get similar tones but have a wider sweep. 12- 2oclock is where it usually is but almost every setting is usable now.



That seems cool, but does 12au7 deliver the same aggressive character? Tried it once in my 5153 and it became stale, did not have that aggressive bark, crunchy gut stab.

Might be different in the Invective.

Might try that as i have a 12au7 laying around somewhere.


----------



## crankyrayhanky

7 Stringer said:


> That seems cool, but does 12au7 deliver the same aggressive character? Tried it once in my 5153 and it became stale, did not have that aggressive bark, crunchy gut stab.
> 
> Might be different in the Invective.
> 
> Might try that as i have a 12au7 laying around somewhere.


Yes it worked really well for me, I also swapped a few other tubes too
My 50w is Kruse mode to stealth specs


----------



## crankyrayhanky

FWIW....Here's my notes from the day I was tube rolling Nov 2016 viewtopic.php?f=3&t=183631&p=2051187&hilit=12au7#p2051187




It is said that Howard recommended 12au7 in V2 & V3 to reduce red channel gain.
Really cool! With gain on full it was less than the blue, so that wouldn't work for me but would likely be cool for less gain freaks.

I then tried 
V2: LPS
V3: JJ 12au7

Now this ^was very close to what I wanted, but still just a bit more tame than I wanted. I imagine many players would love this though

I flipped it and found the magic:
V2: 12au7
V3: LPS

This was awesome! It retains most of the ferocious girth and power but allows full use of the gain- cool tones from 9oclock to maxxed. I tried the original 12ax7 in V3 but that brought back some extra noise, so back to the LPS


I have the LPS in V5 and the rest stock


----------



## Deadpool_25

crankyrayhanky said:


> FWIW....Here's my notes from the day I was tube rolling Nov 2016 viewtopic.php?f=3&t=183631&p=2051187&hilit=12au7#p2051187
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is said that Howard recommended 12au7 in V2 & V3 to reduce red channel gain.
> Really cool! With gain on full it was less than the blue, so that wouldn't work for me but would likely be cool for less gain freaks.
> 
> I then tried
> V2: LPS
> V3: JJ 12au7
> 
> Now this ^was very close to what I wanted, but still just a bit more tame than I wanted. I imagine many players would love this though
> 
> I flipped it and found the magic:
> V2: 12au7
> V3: LPS
> 
> This was awesome! It retains most of the ferocious girth and power but allows full use of the gain- cool tones from 9oclock to maxxed. I tried the original 12ax7 in V3 but that brought back some extra noise, so back to the LPS
> 
> 
> I have the LPS in V5 and the rest stock



This is cool info and inspired me to try a few tubes in an attempt to tame the gain a bit. I have a couple of 12AU7s and a couple LPSs on the way.

The Invective’s tube layout, according to the manual, is:

V1 = Crunch/Lead stages 1/2
V2 = Crunch/Lead stages 3/4
V3 = Loop driver/PI driver
V4 = Phase Inverter
V5 = Crunch/Lead stages 5/6
V6 = Clean channel

So I’m thinking I might try 12AU7s in V2 & V5, then 12AU7 and LPS combo in those slots.


----------



## beavis2306

What's the latest date for more of these things to hit the streets? Still nothing at all in oz.


----------



## Meeotch

I have the head and cab on order from guitar center, and they are expecting to ship January 5th.


----------



## bluffalo

beavis2306 said:


> What's the latest date for more of these things to hit the streets? Still nothing at all in oz.



John fields said a little while ago that it's a different production run for Australia that hadn't started yet.


----------



## teqnick

Waiting to hear more on ship/stock dates.May trade in the ol 5153 for the invective, as it seems to have that extra im looking for.


----------



## Unleash The Fury

I asked my guitar center today if they were to be getting any Peavey Invectives. They had no idea what a Peavey Invective was.


----------



## cwhitey2

Unleash The Fury said:


> I asked my guitar center today if they were to be getting any Peavey Invectives. They had no idea what a Peavey Invective was.


That sounds about right


----------



## narad

Unleash The Fury said:


> I asked my guitar center today if they were to be getting any Peavey Invectives. They had no idea what a Peavey Invective was.



Ha, well they are probably going out of business -- maybe they stopped caring about upcoming products haha


----------



## Unleash The Fury

narad said:


> Ha, well they are probably going out of business -- maybe they stopped caring about upcoming products haha


Who Guitar Center or Peavey?


----------



## narad

Unleash The Fury said:


> Who Guitar Center or Peavey?



Guitar Center. There's a thread on here about it and their recent investment downgrading.


----------



## Unleash The Fury

narad said:


> Guitar Center. There's a thread on here about it and their recent investment downgrading.


I know i was joking


----------



## Deadpool_25

Tubes arrived and I did some swapping. Mirrored @crankyrayhanky’s swaps (using V2 and V5 in the Invective) and came out with exactly the same results even though he has an EVH 5150 III 50w. I’ll leave the 12AU7 in V2 and the LPS in V5.


----------



## Vyn

bluffalo said:


> John fields said a little while ago that it's a different production run for Australia that hadn't started yet.



I did notice that there's like one distrubutor who has it listed on their page over here:

http://www.galacticmusic.com.au/peavey-invective-p-1679.html

I know shipping to Australia costs a bit, but $3599AUD ($2800ish-USD) is a pretty hard pill to swallow. What's the US RRP?


----------



## beavis2306

Vyn said:


> I did notice that there's like one distrubutor who has it listed on their page over here:
> 
> http://www.galacticmusic.com.au/peavey-invective-p-1679.html



That's the only distributor. No mention at any retailers yet. I don't think there's too many people stock Peavey at all. I think we'll be waiting a while


----------



## USMarine75

Vyn said:


> I did notice that there's like one distrubutor who has it listed on their page over here:
> 
> http://www.galacticmusic.com.au/peavey-invective-p-1679.html
> 
> I know shipping to Australia costs a bit, but $3599AUD ($2800ish-USD) is a pretty hard pill to swallow. What's the US RRP?



FWIW... have you looked into the MI Audio Gamma? Far cheaper alternative for metal since it's home grown.


----------



## crankyrayhanky

Deadpool_25 said:


> Tubes arrived and I did some swapping. Mirrored @crankyrayhanky’s swaps (using V2 and V5 in the Invective) and came out with exactly the same results even though he has an EVH 5150 III 50w. I’ll leave the 12AU7 in V2 and the LPS in V5.


Oh that's awesome!
I hope to try Invective soon


----------



## Vyn

beavis2306 said:


> That's the only distributor. No mention at any retailers yet. I don't think there's too many people stock Peavey at all. I think we'll be waiting a while



Yeah, wouldn't be surprised if it was another 6 months before one even gets to the country.



USMarine75 said:


> FWIW... have you looked into the MI Audio Gamma? Far cheaper alternative for metal since it's home grown.



I have looked into them however none of the distributors listed on their page a) have a decent website or b) have nothing listed from MI Audio with prices. Getting gear that's not Gibson/Fender in this country is a ball- ache and a half, even when it's local haha.


----------



## USMarine75

Vyn said:


> I have looked into them however none of the distributors listed on their page a) have a decent website or b) have nothing listed from MI Audio with prices. Getting gear that's not Gibson/Fender in this country is a ball- ache and a half, even when it's local haha.



I spoke with the owner when I emailed them and IIRC they had a Christmas sale of around $1499 on the Beta?


----------



## Vyn

USMarine75 said:


> I spoke with the owner when I emailed them and IIRC they had a Christmas sale of around $1499 on the Beta?



Ah, so you can go directly through the manufacturer, that's awesome!

Still going to end up with an Invective I think, worst comes to worst it'll be importing one from the states and using a step-down transformer.


----------



## USMarine75

Vyn said:


> Ah, so you can go directly through the manufacturer, that's awesome!



Kind of the point, no? 

FWIW he was awesome when we chatted and I kind of regret not grabbing one for that price. The demos are just beastly. But I was concerned that it might be too similar to other amps I already have.


----------



## cmtd

Been watching the guitar center site, as Jan 5th was the "in stock" date for the past few weeks. Now that the date is here, it is just changed to "backordered", haven't seen that one yet.


----------



## Palmer6strings

Since Peavey pushed back the delivery date yet again, my SweetWater rep decided to send me more preamp tubes! Let’s hope this will solve my issue. I feel like it’s been a fight to try and get my amp working like it’s supposed to. I want to play it so bad! Fingers crossed.


----------



## Meeotch

Yep, GC now just says "backordered". I'm not too bothered by the delays, but I do have a Herbert inbound which just might kill any remaining gas. Not holding my breath on this one...


----------



## Palmer6strings

I got my 2 preamp tubes from SweetWater today. I actually had to drive 80 miles round trip because the Fedex guy was too lazy to apparently knock on my door... but anyway, they sent me 2 MESA instead of JJ’s. How bad will this effect my tone? Any at all? 
Since I’ve lost my gain channels, I’m guessing I should prolly start with V1, V2, and V5 tubes since they are the gain stages.


----------



## KailM

Palmer6strings said:


> I got my 2 preamp tubes from SweetWater today. I actually had to drive 80 miles round trip because the Fedex guy was too lazy to apparently knock on my door... but anyway, they sent me 2 MESA instead of JJ’s. How bad will this effect my tone? Any at all?
> Since I’ve lost my gain channels, I’m guessing I should prolly start with V1, V2, and V5 tubes since they are the gain stages.



Mesas could very well be JJs -- JJs that have been tested by Mesa and meet their spec. Mesa doesn't make tubes, they re-label from Russian and sometimes Chinese tubes. Sometimes they relabel JJs. I wouldn't sweat it, because they generally reject any tubes that are not up to their high standards.

You're correct in that V1 and V2 are the first spots to try.


----------



## Deadpool_25

Mesa does use excellent tubes. They’ll be fine. I’d try V5 and V2 first.


----------



## narad

Jeez - amp was named after Destiny, but it's starting to look like it should have been named after Duke Nuke Forever.


----------



## Beheroth

narad said:


> Jeez - amp was named after Destiny, but it's starting to look like it should have been named after Duke Nuke Forever.



Peavey Half Life 3 designed by Gaben


----------



## Palmer6strings

The tubes fixed it. I honestly think there may be a problem with the socket because the same pin that was bent when I checked the tubes the first time was bent again.



Deadpool_25 said:


> Mesa does use excellent tubes. They’ll be fine. I’d try V5 and V2 first.



You were right they are fine but believe it or not it was the V1 stage.

Also, not sure if this is ok, but I made a Facebook group kinda dedicated to the Invective if anyone would like to join that.


----------



## Deadpool_25

Palmer6strings said:


> The tubes fixed it. I honestly think there may be a problem with the socket because the same pin that was bent when I checked the tubes the first time was bent again.
> 
> 
> 
> You were right they are fine but believe it or not it was the V1 stage.
> 
> Also, not sure if this is ok, but I made a Facebook group kinda dedicated to the Invective if anyone would like to join that.



Glad to hear it’s fixed. Hopefully it stays that way.


----------



## bulb

Hey guys, since it sounds like some of you guys have been waiting a while on backordered amps, there is actually a store that has one in stock and ready to go:
https://www.themusicden.com/product/263294/peavey-invective120-tube-amplifier-head-wmidi-switch


----------



## Jesse Zuretti

Yeah, if you guys are interested, PM me! I'll put you in touch with our sales guys.



bulb said:


> Hey guys, since it sounds like some of you guys have been waiting a while on backordered amps, there is actually a store that has one in stock and ready to go:
> https://www.themusicden.com/product/263294/peavey-invective120-tube-amplifier-head-wmidi-switch


----------



## Palmer6strings

@bulb

Hey man, I’m just curious, and it may have been answered but I’ve heard that there is a 4x12 cab for the Invective. Is that true?
I saw that a sketchy site had said it was a special order for $1,200 and no photo to prove it was really what it is.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Think you answered your own question by the description you gave. No pic, sketchy site, etc.


----------



## sylcfh

I can't wait for the Peavey Defective.


----------



## Deadpool_25

Palmer6strings said:


> @bulb
> 
> Hey man, I’m just curious, and it may have been answered but I’ve heard that there is a 4x12 cab for the Invective. Is that true?
> I saw that a sketchy site had said it was a special order for $1,200 and no photo to prove it was really what it is.


----------



## Palmer6strings

Deadpool_25 said:


>




I saw the top video, that’s what got me searching for it. Just watched the second video. Misha didn’t say much about the 4x12.
I may get in contact with John Fields since I am able to contact him to see about how I can obtain one for myself.


----------



## bulb

Palmer6strings said:


> I saw the top video, that’s what got me searching for it. Just watched the second video. Misha didn’t say much about the 4x12.
> I may get in contact with John Fields since I am able to contact him to see about how I can obtain one for myself.


4x12s will be available!


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

bulb said:


> 4x12s will be available!



How are the speakers going to be loaded? The V30s and Creambacks loaded side-to-side like the 2x12, one on top and one on bottom, or X-pattern?


----------



## shanike

is it possible to control the Invective with a MIDI-enabled controller, such as Fractal FX-8?


----------



## shanike

also, does the LEAD channel work as a modern hi-gain RHYTHM sound with an OD? or is it too oversaturated similar to the red channel on EVH 5150III?


----------



## Deadpool_25

shanike said:


> is it possible to control the Invective with a MIDI-enabled controller, such as Fractal FX-8?



Yes.



shanike said:


> also, does the LEAD channel work as a modern hi-gain RHYTHM sound with an OD? or is it too oversaturated similar to the red channel on EVH 5150III?



Yes you can use it for that with lower gain settings (I’d use 9:00-11:00; YMMV of course). Built in OD works quite well but external ODs also work well (I’ve tried precision drive and Maxon OD808).


----------



## zarg

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> How are the speakers going to be loaded? The V30s and Creambacks loaded side-to-side like the 2x12, one on top and one on bottom, or X-pattern?



on the latest rig rundown bulb said they're X pattern. that being the one one the stage with him, maybe not the production one but I assume it will go to the production models like this.


----------



## Partario

Hey guys, just a heads up. Sweetwater has them in stock and ready to ship. I was notified by my kind sales engineer


----------



## MegaTones

Patrick R Hearn said:


> Hey guys, just a heads up. Sweetwater has them in stock and ready to ship. I was notified by my kind sales engineer



Briefly trying to catch up on this thread, but isn't this what every retailer has said for a year now? Like... I won't be surprised if someone orders them and the status goes to "pending" or some nonsense cause they only had one amp to ship


----------



## shanike

right, here in EU the delivery has been pushed again 2 weeks to mid-march


----------



## Matt08642

Aaaaaand it's back out lol


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Matt08642 said:


> Aaaaaand it's back out lol


No wonder Lynch abandoned Peavey and went with Randall instead. Rumor has it the XXX was supposed to be a Lynch signature amp, but he bailed due to them taking too long, and they basically just did as they wanted with it, which mainly meant re-releasing the Ultra in a gaudy fashion.

Though, come to think of it, the Ultra was pretty gaudy to begin with. Anyone remember the logo that'd light up?


----------



## cmtd

Was backordered for a week or so, now available in 2 more months. I've lost count of how many times this date has been pushed back.


Happened to click on the single review, no surprise where its from.....


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

This is getting comical at this point.


----------



## Shoeless_jose

Lol review from deadpool I assume???


----------



## Vyn

Spaced Out Ace said:


> This is getting comical at this point.



A long time ago on a music forum far far away there lived the Light of Bulb, dedicated servants to the one true Djentleman known only as MM. Their text, the scacred Mocha Emporium contained the history of the Pickup Wars, the Downfall of BRJ amongst other legends. One such legend was the fabled Golden Invective. Whosoever to be the one to aquire this invective would recieve untold power and be able to bask in the Lord's Djentlness.

(For the record I'm a huge Periphery fan, I'm just Australian and genetically hardwired to take the piss  )


----------



## Matt08642

I like how literally the only two reviews are the Totally Not a Paid Peavey Rep™ deadpool, and some other guy (who I think is also from here?) saying how his dirty channels all died


----------



## Deadpool_25

Paid? Hey, WTF Peavey? You guys are supposed to be paying me? Well where’s my damn check? Tell you what, send me another Invective and we can call it even, yeah? Let’s make it white tolex. Periphery’s do look pretty good. Ok? Cool, thanks.

Hmmm. Now that I’m thinking about it, I’m thinking let’s also add a pair of those 4x12 cabs. May as well go all out. Thanks Peavey. Good lookin’ out.


----------



## bracky

I got tired of waiting on the .212 cab and bought a Orange. Oh well maybe later this year.


----------



## cwhitey2

I just like how GC has it listed as top seller


----------



## kevdes93

Looks like theres 1 on sweetwater as of 11:33am EST


----------



## Shoeless_jose

kevdes93 said:


> Looks like theres 1 on sweetwater as of 11:33am EST



Likely a returned one


----------



## Deadpool_25

A point on the Invective’s master boost function in contrast with the Mesa TC-50’s solo boost function.

On the Invective if the master boost is off, you cannot access the amp’s full volume capability, or even close to it. This is what led to misunderstandings about how loud the Invective is overall.

On the TC, the higher the Output knob is, the less effect the solo boost has. With the Output maxed, you can access the TC’s full volume without ever engaging the solo boost (so the solo boost doesn’t do anything in this case).

So on the Invective if the amp isn't loud enough for you with the channel and master volumes cranked up, have to choose whether you want the amp really loud OR if you want to be able to use the master boost—you can’t have both. With the TC-50 you can pretty much have both since the amp gets stupid loud with moderately high Output settings which leaves you a little leftover volume to call on with the solo boost.

I definitely like Mesa’s implementation better for this function.


----------



## beavis2306

Deadpool_25 said:


> So on the Invective if the amp isn't loud enough for you with the channel and master volumes cranked up, have to choose whether you want the amp really loud OR if you want to be able to use the master boost—you can’t have both.



Informative dude. Thanks.

So i intend to get one for "bedroom" use only if they get released in oz in my lifetime. I take it that it would still be heaps loud enough without the boost engaged for my purposes?


----------



## Deadpool_25

beavis2306 said:


> Informative dude. Thanks.
> 
> So i intend to get one for "bedroom" use only if they get released in oz in my lifetime. I take it that it would still be heaps loud enough without the boost engaged for my purposes?



Definitely. It can get much louder than you need for home use. I’d say it can get loud enough for most people to gig with but if you need a ridiculous amount of volume you’ll need to use the master boost. With the master boost engaged, it gets a lot louder than you need even for gigs.


----------



## beavis2306

Cool. I'd figured that would be the case. Good to know. Is there any appreciable change to the tone with the boost besides what you would expect from volume increases? I'm sure this has been covered but this thread's too long in the tooth for my vitrified brain to retain everything


----------



## Deadpool_25

beavis2306 said:


> Cool. I'd figured that would be the case. Good to know. Is there any appreciable change to the tone with the boost besides what you would expect from volume increases? I'm sure this has been covered but this thread's too long in the tooth for my vitrified brain to retain everything



Actually I don’t think this has been discussed yet. No change in tone that I can tell. If I was going to gig it and wanted it to be stupid loud but still wanted a volume boost for solos, I’d just setup an EQ pedal in one of the loops. That way you can add volume and can do a little mid boost or something as well. Could do it a bunch of other ways too of course. Again though, if using it at home or even for most gigs none of that is probably necessary.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Is that master boost a clean boost? Or the same boost as you get on the front panel?

And how is the Invective in Bedroom volumes? I assume it is better than 5150s since it has a master volume? Like you can get TV volume levels with good enough tone like a 6505MH.


----------



## Deadpool_25

MASS DEFECT said:


> Is that master boost a clean boost? Or the same boost as you get on the front panel?
> 
> And how is the Invective in Bedroom volumes? I assume it is better than 5150s since it has a master volume? Like you can get TV volume levels with good enough tone like a 6505MH.



The master boost is a pure volume boost as far as I can tell. It’s like the master boost holds some of the amp’s power in reserve then releases some or all of that reserve on command. The two boosts on the front panel (one for the clean channel, and one for the crunch/lead) are completely different things.

The Invective is good at bedroom levels. I don’t have any experience with the 6505MH so can’t compare, but because the master boost is holding some power back, it makes the tapers on the master volume and the channel levels very smooth. This means the amp is very controllable in lower volumes. 

Note that with the master boost on and cranked, the amp’s volume is very tough to manage, going from zero to WTF-loud very quickly like many other high-power amps.


----------



## beavis2306

To either Misha or any Peavey reps - is there any official info or updates for how the situation is going with these amps?


----------



## daos_27

bulb said:


> Sure, I have both the 100w and the 50w 5150III, so it's pretty easy to compare.
> I actually think the 50w sounds better for what it's worth, the blue channel is dialed in better, and it has a resonance knob.
> 
> Anyways, I actually dig the 5150III quite a bit, my main qualms with it are that the mids always have this kinda "notched" quality which isn't really affected by the amp eq, and even though there are 3 channels, the clean is still kinda garbage on it. The 5150III's clean needs the gain to be set quite low if you don't want any dirt, and then it sounds kind of anemic and thin. The Invective by comparison has a warm and fat clean channel. Want it to have some dirt? Just put on the OD.
> 
> Ch2 is nice on the 5150III if you want a tight rhythm sound but still kinda tough to get good saturation from if you want, even with a TS in front I find it's still a little thin sounding. The Invective by comparison has a very fat and low mid rich Ch2 which goes from tight crunch to full on pissed off saturation, and that's before you even engage the amp's boost.
> 
> Ch3 is definitely the highlight of the 5150III and I can't fault it much, but the overall "notched" mids aren't always to my taste. I find it's the kind of thing that sounds pretty cool when I'm jamming, but when I'm recording, it never sits in the mix as well as I would expect. By contrast, Ch3 on the Invective is the most like the old Block letter, at least in terms of character. It has the rich mids and harmonics of Ch2 with quite a bit more gain on tap, but the low mid purr has been traded for some high mid aggression. This really cuts nicely through the mix if you have aggressive riffs, even more so if you activate the boost.
> 
> Another thing on the Invective (that I wasn't able to fully demonstrate in the demo) is how much the nature of the amp changes if you dime the channel volume vs the master. If you dime channel volumes and keep the master down, the overall sound of the amp is a lot more midrange focused, and kinda smoother in the top end. If you dime the master volume and keep the channel volumes down, you get way more "air' and top end sparkle, with a more scooped midrange. Obviously you can adjust between the two sounds by playing with the relative volumes, and it's a very nice touch, especially for recording!
> 
> I hope that answers your questions!




So Bulb you are saying it is more upper mid focussed then the original 5150 ...Does this mean it has less low end punch? I found the only down side to the 5150 was the lack of low end thump like the dual rec and many other modern amps. I actually found the 5150 II appeared to have more low end however, this could have been due to the compression and punch that amp was tweaked for...

would you say it has less bottom end then the 5150 about the same or more overall on the balls out setting?
Thanks!


----------



## crankyrayhanky

daos_27 said:


> So Bulb you are saying it is more upper mid focussed then the original 5150 ...Does this mean it has less low end punch? *I found the only down side to the 5150 was the lack of low end thump* like the dual rec and many other modern amps.


----------



## Robotechnology

So I tried out an Invective today through a 6505 slant cab. Spent a little more than an hour with it. Used an Ibanez JEM Woody at first but the intonation was out when playing chords with open strings so I switched to a PRS Custom 24 for the duration. The Woody was a dark sounding guitar and the CU24 had a more balanced tone (more on why that matters in a little bit). 

This head has A LOT of features. I love the footswitch and the fact that the amp saves your boost on/off setting when channel switching. My favorite tone on the amp by far is channel 1 with the boost engaged. Such a smooth and versatile tone. You know when you happen upon a great amp tone where you play different styles without feeling the need touching a single knob because everything you play is sounding great? That’s how it sounded for me. Can you dial in some nice heavy metal rhythms with the invective hell yeah. Can you get a singing melt into pleasing feedback lead tone? Yep. 

Now after saying that, the two dirty channels sounded better to me with the dark sounding Woody. A bit of fizz—maybe I’m using that word in error but, you know that signature upper midrange zing that 5150’s/JSX/XXX have—I couldn’t it dial out when using the PRS. I think it would cut through just fine in a live situation or on a recording very well just like a 5150 does. After playing it, I feel for me that a 5150 III’s dirty tones are more my preference. However, if you like the original 5150, you will like this amp. It’s as simple as that. And you can absolutely get it to do more things than a 5150 can just by using the on board boosts. Oh yeah the clean is much better than on a 5150 or 5150 II. I think I like the 5150 III clean better but, that is more of a preference thing. I think the invective clean channel is really good. I do think the amp (All 5150 models too) would be better off having more of a gain range... as you keep turning up the gain basically you start accentuating certain frequencies because you already have maximum gain on tap by 12 o’clock on channel 2 and 10 o’clock on channel 3. I had the gain at 9 o’clock on the third channel and that was more than enough. 2nd channel had a less of the on/off maximum gain thing going on but, still, like all 5150 variations, there is too much gain below 12 o’clock in my opinion. The noise gate works very well in clamping down on noise and I definitely would use it for live use. I don’t think you’d need to put it any higher than the minimum for the threshold as it’s pretty sensitive though. Did I already say that the footswitch is GREAT? Well it really is. It’s late so I’m going to stop rambling and go to sleep.


----------



## beavis2306

Thanks for sharing that. Was just the fizz that upset you about the distortion or is there something else about the 5150 III that you prefer?


----------



## bulb

If you run channel volume maxed and master volume to taste you can remove the fizz. Opposite way to accentuate it, but that is part of what makes the amp sound good recorded, so I never roll it off completely. In a live situation I def prefer it with ch volume maxed or close to it.


----------



## Robotechnology

beavis2306 said:


> Thanks for sharing that. Was just the fizz that upset you about the distortion or is there something else about the 5150 III that you prefer?



Upset would be too strong of a word to use. I own a 5150 III 50 watt 6L6 Head and I like the frequencies it accentuates more than the frequencies the Invective accentuates is all. Styles matter of course and I must point out I am less of a modern metal (and not at all djent) player than most people whom I would assume this amp is marketed too. Like I said if you are a fan of the 5150 or 5150 II, you will dig it without question. My 5150 Block Letter did not last long in my possession. With that being said, I’d rather have an Invective than a 5150 and all its derivatives (save the III). It’s a close 2nd to the III. Really not a bad amp. Feature set is INCREDIBLE.



bulb said:


> If you run channel volume maxed and master volume to taste you can remove the fizz. Opposite way to accentuate it, but that is part of what makes the amp sound good recorded, so I never roll it off completely. In a live situation I def prefer it with ch volume maxed or close to it.



I did notice the volumes are very manageable (which is a very good thing) and yes, the lower the volume was the more the fizz. Thanks for your involvement all these years on the forums Misha!


----------



## lewis

so is this another peavey example of the devin townsend guitar thing?


----------



## Deadpool_25

bulb said:


> If you run channel volume maxed and master volume to taste you can remove the fizz. Opposite way to accentuate it, but that is part of what makes the amp sound good recorded, so I never roll it off completely. In a live situation I def prefer it with ch volume maxed or close to it.



Just kinda riffing around messing with this a bit. Raising the channel volume quite high and then adjusting actual volume using the master volume definitely does what bulb says. Reduces or smooths out some high frequency content. I’m curious what causes this. Regardless, it’s pretty cool that you can do some tone shaping like that.

Also want to reiterate that this amp can get pretty damn loud even without the master boost engaged.


----------



## Matt08642

lewis said:


> so is this another peavey example of the devin townsend guitar thing?



That's kind of what I thought about when I heard Misha was going with Peavey. I've been a huge fan of Devin's for years, and I remember that whole debacle of it never being available, then just discontinued.


----------



## beavis2306

Hopefully not. It's a shame that Peavey aren't more up-front about what's going on. People seem to be pretty keen to get their hands on this thing and i think that keeping potential customers abreast of what's actually happening, good or bad, would do a lot to smooth over the frustrations. It's a sad situation at the moment.


----------



## bracky

It’s not like it’s vital medicine or something.


----------



## feraledge

I love that people are still waiting on @bulb to join in the complaint chorus. The delays are on Peavey, not him. From no angle does it benefit him to become the public face of their production issues just because the amp has his name on it. If he gets word from Peavey and passes it on then it doesn’t happen (again), then he’s just taking their hits. 

That said, I’m sure team Eddie is working on taking some of these ideas and implementing them. Misha is already in the FMIC family. Just sayin, an EVH Deflective would certainly get my attention.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

feraledge said:


> That said, I’m sure team Eddie is working on taking some of these ideas and implementing them. Misha is already in the FMIC family. Just sayin, an EVH Deflective would certainly get my attention.


And they'd hit the market in bulk before the Peaveys do.


----------



## feraledge

And Peavey might get more done if they stopped spending so much time on their forum integrated AI helpbot @Deadpool_25 techology. Might be on the fritz anyways, still selling the Invective as your answer to all needs right out of the box after one of 100 listed tube swaps or combinations. Probably can even find out how to Maximize Your Tonal Experience with a trial list of responses to different power conditioners.


----------



## Chuckatory

Just got my Invective from Sweetwater yesterday. Ordered it last Thursday. I bought the amp with a Mesa Standard Rectifier 4×12 cab. I tried the amp out plugged straight in and then with a Maxon OD808 pushing the front. Amp really sounds great. Now it's time to hook up my Helix and sort out the MIDI functions. Oh and mine did come with an owner's manual...more later


----------



## Deadpool_25

Chuckatory said:


> Just got my Invective from Sweetwater yesterday. Ordered it last Thursday. I bought the amp with a Mesa Standard Rectifier 4×12 cab. I tried the amp out plugged straight in and then with a Maxon OD808 pushing the front. Amp really sounds great. Now it's time to hook up my Helix and sort out the MIDI functions. Oh and mine did come with an owner's manual...more later



Congrats. Looks like there are a couple on Reverb too if anyone is searching.


----------



## Lethalharmonic

Quote from Misha Page 48 on this thread

"This speculation is silly because some of you guys are insinuating that Peavey is lying about where they are making the amp.
I normally wouldn’t do this, but just to nip this in the bud I’ll ask them to send a pic of the Meridian assembly line.

In the meantime to those who have the amp, just enjoy it. If this whole thing is too much for you, then honestly just return it, as there’s are a lot of people who are trying to get this amp. I’m willing to bet that they will enjoy it more as well, largely due to the fact that they won’t know or care that this amp happens to be made in Meridian, MS."

Any word on these pictures??? I am still curious to know the truth behind this as well as my friends who ask me about it every so often!


----------



## Chuckatory

Anyone with this amp try to control it with Midi? I have a Line 6 Helix and trying to figure out how to get the helix and amp to talk. Midi with my 5150 iii was easy to do but I'm having issues getting the Helix to change the Invective channels.


----------



## Deadpool_25

Chuckatory said:


> Anyone with this amp try to control it with Midi? I have a Line 6 Helix and trying to figure out how to get the helix and amp to talk. Midi with my 5150 iii was easy to do but I'm having issues getting the Helix to change the Invective channels.



Hi. It took a bit but I figured out how to control the amp with midi. I would say the manual is your friend, but honestly the midi section is a bit confusing at first. My Mesa TC-50 manual seems much easier to understand.

Anyway, if you just want the amp to change channels, the first thing is to ensure the Helix is sending messages on the correct channel. For some reason the way to select midi channels on the Invective is buried on the last page of the midi section (pg. 17). To select a midi channel, connect the stock foot switch (just do it, this will only take 5 seconds), hold down foot switch 9 until switches 1-8 blink then select a midi channel by selecting the appropriate switch (1 for channel 1, 2 for 2, etc.). Now you can disconnect the stock foot switch and reconnect Helix. In the Helix settings, make sure it is sending messages on that channel.

If all you want to do is change amp channels, have the Helix send CC 1 for the clean channel, 2 for crunch, 3 for lead.

If you want to do more than that, you can use a midi CC to turn on/off various individual functions (gate, master boost, etc.) or use a midi PC to select various amp configurations (for example, channel 2 with drive boost engaged, master boost engaged, gate off, both FX loops on is PC 94; see manual pages 13-15).

Hopefully that helps. If not, shoot me a PM and I’ll see if I can help.


----------



## Chuckatory

Thanks for the response. I will try when I get off work. Oh and I will be doing this with Snapshots on the Helix.


----------



## feraledge

Lethalharmonic said:


> Quote from Misha Page 48 on this thread
> 
> "This speculation is silly because some of you guys are insinuating that Peavey is lying about where they are making the amp.
> I normally wouldn’t do this, but just to nip this in the bud I’ll ask them to send a pic of the Meridian assembly line.
> 
> In the meantime to those who have the amp, just enjoy it. If this whole thing is too much for you, then honestly just return it, as there’s are a lot of people who are trying to get this amp. I’m willing to bet that they will enjoy it more as well, largely due to the fact that they won’t know or care that this amp happens to be made in Meridian, MS."
> 
> Any word on these pictures??? I am still curious to know the truth behind this as well as my friends who ask me about it every so often!


In Misha's defense, they have to be actively making the amp to get production pics.


----------



## Chuckatory

Deadpool_25 said:


> Hi. It took a bit but I figured out how to control the amp with midi. I would say the manual is your friend, but honestly the midi section is a bit confusing at first. My Mesa TC-50 manual seems much easier to understand.
> 
> Anyway, if you just want the amp to change channels, the first thing is to ensure the Helix is sending messages on the correct channel. For some reason the way to select midi channels on the Invective is buried on the last page of the midi section (pg. 17). To select a midi channel, connect the stock foot switch (just do it, this will only take 5 seconds), hold down foot switch 9 until switches 1-8 blink then select a midi channel by selecting the appropriate switch (1 for channel 1, 2 for 2, etc.). Now you can disconnect the stock foot switch and reconnect Helix. In the Helix settings, make sure it is sending messages on that channel.
> 
> If all you want to do is change amp channels, have the Helix send CC 1 for the clean channel, 2 for crunch, 3 for lead.
> 
> If you want to do more than that, you can use a midi CC to turn on/off various individual functions (gate, master boost, etc.) or use a midi PC to select various amp configurations (for example, channel 2 with drive boost engaged, master boost engaged, gate off, both FX loops on is PC 94; see manual pages 13-15).
> 
> Hopefully that helps. If not, shoot me a PM and I’ll see if I can help.


Thanks for the help but I got it figured out now. I had to use the instant commands in the Helix command center because I'm using Snapshots. I made sure I was on Midi channel 1 with the Peavey controller and used the program numbers from the manual. I'm using PC changes because I want the amp to do different things instead of only switching channels. Cheers! 

Love the amp btw. It's crushing my bedroom right now and can't wait to bring it to the practice room with the band. I'm running the post gain maxed out like Misha suggested and using the master volume and the Helix Volume to control volume.


----------



## Deadpool_25

Still doesn’t seem to be readily available, and guys in the guitar shops I go through still haven’t even heard of it lol. With that said, it looks like Sweetwater has one or more in stock.

And here are a couple clips from IG (not by me).
https://instagram.com/p/BegwtzVBNRm/

https://instagram.com/p/BewBM4mAYTc/


----------



## QuantumCybin

feraledge said:


> In Misha's defense, they have to be actively making the amp to get production pics.


----------



## GoldDragon

Deadpool_25 said:


> A point on the Invective’s master boost function in contrast with the Mesa TC-50’s solo boost function.
> 
> On the Invective if the master boost is off, you cannot access the amp’s full volume capability, or even close to it. This is what led to misunderstandings about how loud the Invective is overall.
> 
> On the TC, the higher the Output knob is, the less effect the solo boost has. With the Output maxed, you can access the TC’s full volume without ever engaging the solo boost (so the solo boost doesn’t do anything in this case).
> 
> So on the Invective if the amp isn't loud enough for you with the channel and master volumes cranked up, have to choose whether you want the amp really loud OR if you want to be able to use the master boost—you can’t have both. With the TC-50 you can pretty much have both since the amp gets stupid loud with moderately high Output settings which leaves you a little leftover volume to call on with the solo boost.
> 
> I definitely like Mesa’s implementation better for this function.



Thats lame, and it probably a bug.

To me, it sounds like they are doing limited production knowing that they will have to eventually service many of the amps they sent out.

They may well have shipped <100, the majority of people who got them are guinea pigs who want to be the first. These kinds of people are more likely to talk about it online. A typical gigging guitarist is *not* just going to buy an Invective and not post online about it. All I'm hearing is crickets.

What would be more useful is for people to compare serial numbers and try to figure out how what the range is.

Also, is there a chance that Deadpool is an alt account for Bulb?


----------



## GoldDragon

Spaced Out Ace said:


> No wonder Lynch abandoned Peavey and went with Randall instead. Rumor has it the XXX was supposed to be a Lynch signature amp, but he bailed due to them taking too long, and they basically just did as they wanted with it, which mainly meant re-releasing the Ultra in a gaudy fashion.
> 
> Though, come to think of it, the Ultra was pretty gaudy to begin with. Anyone remember the logo that'd light up?



No, the trucker chicks were Lynch's idea. I don't think Lynch was a big enough name to launch that amp. Satriani and EVH were the caliber they were used to . Things are not the same these days.


----------



## Deadpool_25

GoldDragon said:


> Thats lame, and it probably a bug.
> 
> To me, it sounds like they are doing limited production knowing that they will have to eventually service many of the amps they sent out.
> 
> They may well have shipped <100, the majority of people who got them are guinea pigs who want to be the first. These kinds of people are more likely to talk about it online. A typical gigging guitarist is *not* just going to buy an Invective and not post online about it. All I'm hearing is crickets.
> 
> What would be more useful is for people to compare serial numbers and try to figure out how what the range is.
> 
> Also, is there a chance that Deadpool is an alt account for Bulb?



I don’t think it’s a bug at all—I think it was a design choice. Not horrible but certainly could’ve been implemented better. 

I do think it’s very suspect how few of these seem to be on the streets. I definitely expected more reviews both in print or on YT by now. The one Peavey guy said they were having issues with parts suppliers but you’d think those would be worked out by now.

The alt account thing...weak. You can troll better than that. @feraledge might be able to help you out there.


----------



## Andrew Lloyd Webber

People are trying to give you the benefit of the doubt that you’re not a real person.


----------



## KailM

Deadpool_25 said:


> The alt account thing...weak. You can troll better than that. @feraledge might be able to help you out there.



Deadpool, I don't support the trash talk you're getting in this thread, but the post above nearly made me spill my coffee.


----------



## Deadpool_25

KailM said:


> Deadpool, I don't support the trash talk you're getting in this thread, but the post above nearly made me spill my coffee.



 Man I don’t mind the trolling. I get it to be honest. But c’mon man. If you’re gonna do it, do it right. Lol


----------



## beavis2306

KailM said:


> Deadpool, I don't support the trash talk you're getting in this thread



Same. It's pretty ordinary. Cheers for providing some helpful info


----------



## bsshiver

As an owner of an Archon 100 and a JP-2C, I’m really enjoying my Invective! I’ve never owned a 5150/6505/5153, so take this as you will, but the sound I was able to get in the practice space with the band this past week was really, really good, and I wasn’t lacking for volume. I was playing through an EVH 4x12 with greenbacks, and I’ll try out my Orange 2x12 with Vintage 30s this coming week. 

Also, the versatility you get with that foot switch is amazing and quite simple to set up. 

Shout out to this thread for letting me know when Sweetwater had one in stock. I had been on the fence, but decided to jump on the chance. I’m not disappointed, but I’ll keep you guys posted on my experience with it.


----------



## GoldDragon

Deadpool_25 said:


> The alt account thing...weak. You can troll better than that. @feraledge might be able to help you out there.



It wasn't exactly trolling, just acknowledging that bulb probably has an alt account to vent/pimp things that he doesnt want associated with his main account. If I was "internet famous", I would have multiple accounts so I could post in anonymity. I mean, thats the point of having an avatar, isn't it?

The thought that you might be bulb was more an attempt at humor; despite your protestations, we will never really know. 

If its not a technical problem, and its not a supply problem, has anyone considered it might be a brand/marketing problem? Maybe Peavey is pulling a George Lynch on boy periphery? Maybe their market analytics show that Periphery is the wrong face to sell a tube amp. (Like putting a picture of Hillary Clinton on a box of Wheaties). Or maybe they have concerns about investing their product launch in someone who has been involved in some online flame wars and are concerned that one errant tweet/post could undermine their flagship product and possibly the company's survival? (They don't want to be Kylie Jenner'd.)

As people have mentioned, its probably not technical, its probably not supply. That leaves marketing strategy. Would not be surprised if another version of the invective appears, and the invective becomes a signature version of the main course.

What about a chinese-made version of the Invective at 6505 pricing? Now I'm really interested. They could call it the Chinvective.


----------



## Deadpool_25

GoldDragon said:


> It wasn't exactly trolling, just acknowledging that bulb probably has an alt account to vent/pimp things that he doesnt want associated with his main account. If I was "internet famous", I would have multiple accounts so I could post in anonymity. I mean, thats the point of having an avatar, isn't it?
> 
> The thought that you might be bulb was more an attempt at humor; despite your protestations, we will never really know.
> 
> If its not a technical problem, and its not a supply problem, has anyone considered it might be a brand/marketing problem? Maybe Peavey is pulling a George Lynch on boy periphery? Maybe their market analytics show that Periphery is the wrong face to sell a tube amp. (Like putting a picture of Hillary Clinton on a box of Wheaties). Or maybe they have concerns about investing their product launch in someone who has been involved in some online flame wars and are concerned that one errant tweet/post could undermine their flagship product and possibly the company's survival? (They don't want to be Kylie Jenner'd.)
> 
> As people have mentioned, its probably not technical, its probably not supply. That leaves marketing strategy. Would not be surprised if another version of the invective appears, and the invective becomes a signature version of the main course.
> 
> What about a chinese-made version of the Invective at 6505 pricing? Now I'm really interested. They could call it the Chinvective.



Haha. I kinda figured so my response was a good natured jab back at ya.  That's the funny thing about conspiracy theories. They don't often offer solid proof but come up with all kinds of ways to shoot down proof that that runs counter to their argument.

That Peavey rep did post that it was supply issues. That doesn't seem impossible, but they haven't worked those supply issues out yet? Ehhhhh. The interesting thing now is they're in a really bad place in terms of marketing. For whatever reason, they're having issues getting enough of these built. If they were go start advertising it and marketing the hell out of it, they'd be creating even more demand for a product they're already having problems supplying. They're better off not marketing it much until they can fix their supply issues.

MIA vis MIC....meh. If you make it in the US you have to charge more for it, then people bitch about the higher price. If you make it in China people bitch that you're not supporting American workers. People are always gonna bitch about something. Assuming they wouldn't have the slow production issues if it was MIC (which is a huge and wildly speculative assumption) they'd have been much better off if it had started off as MIC and at a lower price point.


----------



## Matt08642

GoldDragon said:


> If its not a technical problem, and its not a supply problem, has anyone considered it might be a brand/marketing problem? Maybe Peavey is pulling a George Lynch on boy periphery? Maybe their market analytics show that Periphery is the wrong face to sell a tube amp. (Like putting a picture of Hillary Clinton on a box of Wheaties). Or maybe they have concerns about investing their product launch in someone who has been involved in some online flame wars and are concerned that one errant tweet/post could undermine their flagship product and possibly the company's survival? (They don't want to be Kylie Jenner'd.)



This scenario would be hilarious considering Peavey is more or less a joke outside of the 5150/6505 at this point, and should be grasping for any relevance.

Whoever came up with the invective had something good going (not the concept, but actually designing the circuit and making it MIDI capable and stuff),


----------



## Deadpool_25

Matt08642 said:


> This scenario would be hilarious considering Peavey is more or less a joke outside of the 5150/6505 at this point, and should be grasping for any relevance.
> 
> Whoever came up with the invective had something good going (not the concept, but actually designing the circuit and making it MIDI capable and stuff),



Pretty accurate. Peavey doesn't have much going for it in the consumer guitar world right now as far as I can tell. As you say, the 6505 is pretty much it. The Vypyr might be better than the Line 6 Spiders but it can't get a solid market share; the Spider is just too entrenched. And I'd guess they aren't selling all that many 6505s since it's been out so long it's easy to find them used. Also there are a lot of solid alternatives these days. My guess is that the pro audio stuff is keeping them afloat and that they'd like to stay relevant in the guitar world, while capitalizing on the reputation of the 6505 as the "go-to" metal amp.

So what do they do? They put out an amp that's based on the 6505, but greatly improves (on paper) on that amp's design. They make it super versatile which is a good decision and some buzz is created. But they run into supply chain or manufacturing issues and some of the buzz turns into annoyance which turns into disdain (for some people). Because of delays, the buzz quiets down a lot but because they're having issues getting them off the line, they can't even aggressively market it to get the buzz going again.

And to make matters worse, it's made (okay, assembled) in the US. That seems cool when you first hear it, but not only did that put it at a higher price point, it came into question as a fact in itself.

So I don't think it "would be" hilarious. I think it is pretty comical as an entire situation. Like a comedy of errors. With the exception of the fact that the amp is still awesome. Come on, you know I was gonna throw that in there.


----------



## GoldDragon

Deadpool_25 said:


> So what do they do? They put out an amp that's based on the 6505, but greatly improves (on paper) on that amp's design. They make it super versatile which is a good decision and some buzz is created. But they run into supply chain or manufacturing issues and some of the buzz turns into annoyance which turns into disdain (for some people). Because of delays, the buzz quiets down a lot but because they're having issues getting them off the line, they can't even aggressively market it to get the buzz going again.



They are probably finding out that its not as easy to build amps in the USA and make a profit these days.

Pairing the amp launch with Periphery... from my perspective not a great move. Only because I doubt the average fan/player of that band can spend 2K on a head. And they are of a newer generation, more likely to be using plugins or modeling amps. Phone integration is more important to them than tubes.


I'm a likely candidate to buy an Invective because its a great looking amp and I've enjoyed Peavey amps over the past 25 years, but the Periphery connection (to me) is a negative.

Competing amp in this price range is Mesa TC50. Usa made, great price, top brand. And afaik, its not linked to any specific artist.

Times have changed and I believe that the Invective marketing/price was all wrong. Which is why I think there may be another "non signature", chinese made version in the pipeline. They could call it a 6505++ (or "Ultra 3D" lol) , leverage the name recognition, and charge $1300 for it. If they did that, it would be my next amp.

In retrospect, they should have paid EVH whatever he wanted to keep him with the brand. They could have kept 5150 name, and the Fender/EVH amps would not exist.


----------



## Andrew Lloyd Webber

At this point, I’m not sure I believe Misha was made in America.


----------



## Deadpool_25

GoldDragon said:


> They are probably finding out that its not as easy to build amps in the USA and make a profit these days.
> 
> Pairing the amp launch with Periphery... from my perspective not a great move. Only because I doubt the average fan/player of that band can spend 2K on a head. And they are of a newer generation, more likely to be using plugins or modeling amps. Phone integration is more important to them than tubes.
> 
> 
> I'm a likely candidate to buy an Invective because its a great looking amp and I've enjoyed Peavey amps over the past 25 years, but the Periphery connection (to me) is a negative.
> 
> Competing amp in this price range is Mesa TC50. Usa made, great price, top brand. And afaik, its not linked to any specific artist.
> 
> Times have changed and I believe that the Invective marketing/price was all wrong. Which is why I think there may be another "non signature", chinese made version in the pipeline. They could call it a 6505++ (or "Ultra 3D" lol) , leverage the name recognition, and charge $1300 for it. If they did that, it would be my next amp.
> 
> In retrospect, they should have paid EVH whatever he wanted to keep him with the brand. They could have kept 5150 name, and the Fender/EVH amps would not exist.



Good post. Interestingly, the amp is NOT actually a “signature” model. It’s “designed with input from” which is technically quite different. But although I’ve seen that said (I think even by Misha himself?) and that’s exactly what it says on Peavey’s website—and there’s zero affiliation with Periphery on the actual amp—I’ve also seen plenty of places where it actually was called a signature amp. I think even at least one of the Peavey guys at NAMM said it. They probably wanted to avoid the “signature” thing but then they kinda tried to walk that line. And clearly failed lol. Now almost everyone calls it a signature amp.

I have the TC-50 as well (you’re right...there’s no artist affiliation with it) and I very much prefer the Invective. Off the shelf, the TC does mid gain a bit better. The TC has a better implementation of the master boost. And the TC (including the TC-100) is physically smaller. Aside from those things I prefer the Invective in every way (and after swapping that one preamp tube the mid gain thing has equaled out for me).

But Mesa marketed the TC quite well. The showed how versatile it is, demonstrating it with clean, low gain, bluesy, countryish, classic rock, modern rock, modern metal...awesome marketing.

On Peavey’s site, on the guitar amplifiers page, it’s not even the top amp listed. It’s third down, below the 6505 and the Classic series. Lmao. This amp should absolutely and obviously be the flagship yet it’s not even at the top of the amp page? Ridiculous. (And the pic of the Invective on that page has Misha leaning on it which reinforces the “signature” perception.)

The marketing was/is definitely wrong. The pricing is right (imo) for an amp with these features that is “assembled in the US” but if they could have built it overseas and kept the price a few hundred lower...AND if that would’ve enabled them to have smoother and higher production, then they definitely should’ve done that.

Edit: holy fuck that was long. Sorry about that.


----------



## narad

GoldDragon said:


> They are probably finding out that its not as easy to build amps in the USA and make a profit these days.
> 
> Pairing the amp launch with Periphery... from my perspective not a great move. Only because I doubt the average fan/player of that band can spend 2K on a head. And they are of a newer generation, more likely to be using plugins or modeling amps. Phone integration is more important to them than tubes.
> 
> 
> I'm a likely candidate to buy an Invective because its a great looking amp and I've enjoyed Peavey amps over the past 25 years, but the Periphery connection (to me) is a negative.
> 
> Competing amp in this price range is Mesa TC50. Usa made, great price, top brand. And afaik, its not linked to any specific artist.
> 
> Times have changed and I believe that the Invective marketing/price was all wrong. Which is why I think there may be another "non signature", chinese made version in the pipeline. They could call it a 6505++ (or "Ultra 3D" lol) , leverage the name recognition, and charge $1300 for it. If they did that, it would be my next amp.
> 
> In retrospect, they should have paid EVH whatever he wanted to keep him with the brand. They could have kept 5150 name, and the Fender/EVH amps would not exist.



Respectfully disagree -- I would have loved a flexible 5150, brand new, made in America. Does the world need another Chinese-made 5150 variant? Would the invective, with its tweaks, still deliver that? Who knows - no decent demos really.

But when I'm on the market for something in this area, I'm basically torn between block letter 5150 and a SLO. The block letter has the the pedigree, but these days they're all beat up and you don't really know what you're getting, but $600-900-ish. The SLO has super nice transformers and wiring, used pricing around $2200-3200, and new around $4500. I feel like this could have been a good middle ground.

Of course the 5150 and SLO are not the same tonally, but similar enough that they're competing in my search.


----------



## GoldDragon

narad said:


> Respectfully disagree -- I would have loved a flexible 5150, brand new, made in America. Does the world need another Chinese-made 5150 variant? Would the invective, with its tweaks, still deliver that? Who knows - no decent demos really.
> 
> But when I'm on the market for something in this area, I'm basically torn between block letter 5150 and a SLO. The block letter has the the pedigree, but these days they're all beat up and you don't really know what you're getting, but $600-900-ish. The SLO has super nice transformers and wiring, used pricing around $2200-3200, and new around $4500. I feel like this could have been a good middle ground.
> 
> Of course the 5150 and SLO are not the same tonally, but similar enough that they're competing in my search.



I don't have anything against the Invective price. Looks like a great amp. 

However, a "USA made" amp these days uses all chinese components afaik. If the warranty is the same, the parts are the same, what does it matter if built by a chinese person? (And priced $500 lower)

I am a big believer in manufacturing in USA, but electronics components are all imported now anyway, so there is an additional layer of complexity that doesn't improve the product.

Even if USA built, an Invective is still not a SLO with hand selected components.

On cars they show percentages of where the parts were sourced. The part sourcing % is of more interest to me. If it uses mostly USA parts, that engages a lot more of the economy.


----------



## Deadpool_25

GoldDragon said:


> I don't have anything against the Invective price. Looks like a great amp.
> 
> However, a "USA made" amp these days uses all chinese components afaik. If the warranty is the same, the parts are the same, what does it matter if built by a chinese person? (And priced $500 lower)
> 
> I am a big believer in manufacturing in USA, but electronics components are all imported now anyway, so there is an additional layer of complexity that doesn't improve the product.
> 
> Even if USA built, an Invective is still not a SLO with hand selected components.
> 
> On cars they show percentages of where the parts were sourced. The part sourcing % is of more interest to me. If it uses mostly USA parts, that engages a lot more of the economy.



I agree. I’d guess the parts for my TC-50 are mostly from China or elsewhere overseas too. I wouldn’t be surprised at all to find out they have an equal number of parts made overseas.


----------



## narad

GoldDragon said:


> I don't have anything against the Invective price. Looks like a great amp.
> 
> However, a "USA made" amp these days uses all chinese components afaik. If the warranty is the same, the parts are the same, what does it matter if built by a chinese person? (And priced $500 lower)
> 
> I am a big believer in manufacturing in USA, but electronics components are all imported now anyway, so there is an additional layer of complexity that doesn't improve the product.
> 
> Even if USA built, an Invective is still not a SLO with hand selected components.
> 
> On cars they show percentages of where the parts were sourced. The part sourcing % is of more interest to me. If it uses mostly USA parts, that engages a lot more of the economy.



Where are the transformers coming from? 

But anyway, it does tend to matter to me. It's like these korean guitar shops. There's nothing comparatively worse about a guitar made in Korea by Korean hands, but there is about a shop whose being budgetted a certain amount of time and needs to find some savings -- be it in reduced time -> degree of attention and QC, or resources -> lower grade wiring, less scrutiny over subpar wood, subpar fretwire, etc.

You can say all the amp parts are made in China, but as far as I'm aware that's just speculation. It could come down to many of them being imported from China, but you still have to build the thing, and there's actually a lot of foresight that goes into a good amp layout, how the points are soldier, how things are mounted on the board, etc.

I mean, I'd love to see a lot of gut shots of Chinese made amps compared to US made amps at various price points to see how things measure up, but a priori, I'm going to give the nod to the US made one for now.


----------



## GoldDragon

narad said:


> Where are the transformers coming from?
> 
> But anyway, it does tend to matter to me. It's like these korean guitar shops. There's nothing comparatively worse about a guitar made in Korea by Korean hands, but there is about a shop whose being budgetted a certain amount of time and needs to find some savings -- be it in reduced time -> degree of attention and QC, or resources -> lower grade wiring, less scrutiny over subpar wood, subpar fretwire, etc.
> 
> You can say all the amp parts are made in China, but as far as I'm aware that's just speculation. It could come down to many of them being imported from China, but you still have to build the thing, and there's actually a lot of foresight that goes into a good amp layout, how the points are soldier, how things are mounted on the board, etc.
> 
> I mean, I'd love to see a lot of gut shots of Chinese made amps compared to US made amps at various price points to see how things measure up, but a priori, I'm going to give the nod to the US made one for now.



Here is another angle. Labor in China/Korea is dirt cheap, so they can pay them to do the job right. And even though that wage is relatively low, they live like kings on that salary. They can get relatively better employees.

I imagine paying Americans to build amps is tricky. Cant pay too much or the amp will not make any money, but what level of quality do you get if you're only willing to pay $15/hr? (What level of staff turnover, etc.)

Economy needs to be fixed to solve this, but I agree a preference for USA built is a part of that.


----------



## narad

GoldDragon said:


> Here is another angle. Labor in China/Korea is dirt cheap, so they can pay them to do the job right. And even though that wage is relatively low, they live like kings on that salary. They can get relatively better employees.



I mean, it could be like this, but in as much as I've heard it as it pertains to world music co, it's very much not like this currently. I mean, when there's like a Korean Soldano where it's $1400 for a Korean made amp but with beautiful point to point wiring, high quality solder, all the best components, I'm all game.


----------



## FitRocker33

Is anybody here posting from their 1000 dollar Chinese made iPhone 10?


----------



## Deadpool_25

FitRocker33 said:


> Is anybody here posting from their 1000 dollar Chinese made iPhone 10?



/raises hand


----------



## mnemonic

I never really got that argument, since our phones are Chinese made we shouldn’t be allowed to prefer US made (or other first-World countries) for other stuff where we actually have a choice, or somehow it makes us hypocritical. 

As far as I know there are no first-World-made smartphones. The only alternative is to not have one.

But for guitars and amps, and many other things in life we have a choice and assuming it’s not prohibitively expensive, I’ll take the first-world-made product.


----------



## bracky

Invective .MH

To soon?


----------



## Matt08642

GoldDragon said:


> Pairing the amp launch with Periphery... from my perspective not a great move. Only because I doubt the average fan/player of that band can spend 2K on a head. And they are of a newer generation, more likely to be using plugins or modeling amps. Phone integration is more important to them than tubes.



I think it's hilarious that the king of modeling, bulb himself, designed an amp in the first place.


----------



## FitRocker33

mnemonic said:


> I never really got that argument, since our phones are Chinese made we shouldn’t be allowed to prefer US made (or other first-World countries) for other stuff where we actually have a choice, or somehow it makes us hypocritical.
> 
> As far as I know there are no first-World-made smartphones. The only alternative is to not have one.
> 
> But for guitars and amps, and many other things in life we have a choice and assuming it’s not prohibitively expensive, I’ll take the first-world-made product.



I think my joke was slightly misinterpreted. I understand that not all Chinese made products are total garbage, but I AM in agreeance that I prefer certain things to be made certain places because of the quality.

Guitars and amps are one such example.

Tiny example:

I have a Japanese made ESP Horizon III. The fit, finish and playability is well worthy of the 1600 pricetag.

The other day I played one of the brand new LTD deluxe horizon III’s that came out for 2018, I believe it was Korean built.
While it was certainly a nice playing guitar And well made, there were definitely little things about it that you could tell and feel it wasn’t the full tilt Japanese made model. 

To me, those little things are worth the extra expense after having played guitar for 25 years.


----------



## Shoeless_jose

I think the only issue with the price is that peavey no longer has the clout to demand those prices although feature wise it is fair.

Mesa booogie stuff is expensive but every detail is immaculate, and look under the hood of one. Youre paying for design and development.

Mesas just feel special to me.

So when Peavey is in that price range for an amp that you can barely even get your hands on it leaves a sour taste.


----------



## Deadpool_25

Valid. Kinda like a Hyundai Equus lol


----------



## FitRocker33

Or a Kia K900!

Why the fluck would somebody shell out more than 50 grand for a Kia and not a Lexus, Acura, Audi, etc?


----------



## narad

Dineley said:


> So when Peavey is in that price range for an amp that you can barely even get your hands on it leaves a sour taste.



Yea, announcing amps and then never making them available for purchase is a pet peave of mine ;-)


----------



## beavis2306

narad said:


> Yea, announcing amps and then never making them available for purchase is a pet peave(y) of mine ;-)



Added the "y" for lolz


----------



## Hollowway

beavis2306 said:


> Added the "y" for lolz


 Well played!


----------



## Andrew Lloyd Webber

All this drama will blow over with a mkII do-over announced for preorder. Probably something like



bulb said:


> i hear all you guys loud and clear lol weve changed a few things in how the amp is built to make them both more affordable and faster to roll out. Believe me weve addressed all concerns people had for the old model with the new satin finish


----------



## bracky

An invective minihead would be pretty cool.


----------



## Andrew Lloyd Webber

idk “invective minihead” makes me think of Kiesel and not Peavey.


----------



## bracky

Peavey has a line of mini head amps based on their big brothers. So it would only be natural to make one for the invective. We’ll see. .D


----------



## prlgmnr

Andrew Lloyd Webber said:


> idk “invective minihead” makes me think of Kiesel and not Peavey.


Maybe file it away for your next username.


----------



## GoldDragon

Andrew Lloyd Webber said:


> At this point, I’m not sure I believe Misha was made in America.



He was made in america, but with all foreign parts. Just like the Invective.


----------



## bulb

GoldDragon said:


> He was made in america, but with all foreign parts. Just like the Invective.


this is true


----------



## FitRocker33

Ask me where Mauritius is on a global map and I would have no idea whatsoever lmao.


----------



## JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo

FitRocker33 said:


> Ask me where Mauritius is on a global map and I would have no idea whatsoever lmao.



It's somewhere outside the USA, but if you're in the USA it doesn't matter to you anyway.

More on topic: I'm still really hopeful for this amp to get going and becomes a go-to workhorse. I'm really interested in an amp rig that I can plug straight into, even going as far as contacting amp modders in the UK to see if they can mod my Fireball to have a boost (or an anti-woof cut) switch/knob in the amp. If I were able to get my hands on an Invective, that'd be preferable. Thomann has a listing currently "Waiting for stock" so fingers crossed progress is being made.


----------



## Andrew Lloyd Webber




----------



## Cynicanal

OliOliver said:


> It's somewhere outside the USA, but if you're in the USA it doesn't matter to you anyway.
> 
> More on topic: I'm still really hopeful for this amp to get going and becomes a go-to workhorse. I'm really interested in an amp rig that I can plug straight into, even going as far as contacting amp modders in the UK to see if they can mod my Fireball to have a boost (or an anti-woof cut) switch/knob in the amp. If I were able to get my hands on an Invective, that'd be preferable. Thomann has a listing currently "Waiting for stock" so fingers crossed progress is being made.


Possibly a bit off topic, but there's plenty of amps that should be tight and saturated enough straight-in that'll probably be cheaper than getting your amp modded. Randall Diavlo or Satan, Mesa Mark series, Bogner Twin Jet (or possibly even a regular Uberschall, although it's not as tight as the TJ), or pretty much any Diezel. Maybe the PRS Archon as well.


----------



## JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo

Cynicanal said:


> Possibly a bit off topic, but there's plenty of amps that should be tight and saturated enough straight-in that'll probably be cheaper than getting your amp modded. Randall Diavlo or Satan, Mesa Mark series, Bogner Twin Jet (or possibly even a regular Uberschall, although it's not as tight as the TJ), or pretty much any Diezel. Maybe the PRS Archon as well.



In the UK, Mesa is a no-go unless you get lucky and find a stupid good deal on it used (unlikely). I've owned an Archon but that still required a boost to tighten up. I guess I'm probably just picky, haha.


----------



## KailM

bracky said:


> An invective minihead would be pretty cool.



It would only be cool if it was a 50 watter running two 6L6s aka _big boy_ tubes. I'd pass on it if it were the same el84 shite that has been marketed to death as of late.


----------



## Deadpool_25

KailM said:


> It would only be cool if *you could actually find them to buy.*



FTFY 

I agree. That’s probably a decent solution. Make a 50W version overseas that can compete with the 5153 50W.

Gotta have all the same features as the 120 though (maybe just 1 loop and no pedal power outlets) , and maybe add power scaling like the TC-100. Also make the master boost work like the TC’s solo boost. And make channel 2 have less gain so it is better at mid to low gain.


----------



## FitRocker33

The 5153 50w can get extremely tight unboosted if you manipulate the gain, resonance and bass controls properly. I run my red channel gain around no more than 9 or 10 o’ clock.

I still boost it with a Maxon because there is something in that mid hump that it adds that I always liked.


----------



## JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo

I've owned a couple EVHs in the past and I couldn't get along with them. Knowing that Gojira (supposedly) go straight in to their EVHs and ended up with the tone of The Way Of All Flesh always tempts me to try them again


----------



## feraledge

With the 5150/6505s you can just pull a pair of tubes and run in half power. Is that not true for the Invective? Otherwise, if a mini-head comes out, it'll be because EVH is going to jump them on production time and just add in the midi-controls, etc into the next 5153 variation. Peavey might still be trying to figure out how to build these things in the meantime. I've been really itching to play one, so maybe they'll finally get over that hurdle. I suppose we'll start seeing them widely when we see them.


----------



## Deadpool_25

feraledge said:


> With the 5150/6505s you can just pull a pair of tubes and run in half power. Is that not true for the Invective?



It has a half power switch.


----------



## feraledge

Deadpool_25 said:


> It has a half power switch.


That’s what I thought, makes a 50 watt version very redundant.


----------



## Deadpool_25

feraledge said:


> That’s what I thought, makes a 50 watt version very redundant.



Yeah kinda. It would only be good if:

1) It had power scaling similar to the Mesa TC-100
2) It was a smaller form factor (EVH 5153 50W size)
3) It had a couple less features (as I mentioned above; no pedal power jacks, only 1 FX loop)
4) The price was in the $900-$1000 range
5) They could get them off the line in sufficient numbers to meet a high demand (which I think there would be)

Outside of that, you're absolutely right. No point in a straight up 50W version.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

I'd rather them do a 6505 60W head to go against the EVH 50w. And that 6505 60W should have the features of the 6505 MH. Power scaling, Reverb, etc etc. That would probably be Chinese and be sold at a price betwen the MH ($500) and the big 6505+ head ($1000).

That would sell a Sh1t ton, Peavey.


----------



## KailM

MASS DEFECT said:


> I'd rather them do a 6505 60W head to go against the EVH 50w. And that 6505 60W should have the features of the 6505 MH. Power scaling, Reverb, etc etc. That would probably be Chinese and be sold at a price betwen the MH ($500) and the big 6505+ head ($1000).
> 
> That would sell a Sh1t ton, Peavey.



That's basically what I have with my 6505+ 112 converted into a head -- a 60 watt head that's about 15 pounds lighter than the 120 watt head. Bummer is, it's still the same size as my 120 watt 6505. Sounds brilliant though. If they built one the size of the EVH 50 watt, they'd be onto something. Of course, I'd have no use for the power scaling because 60 watts sounds just fine at low volumes, as does my 120 watt head.


----------



## Veldar

So does anyone actually have one yet?


----------



## Deadpool_25

Veldar said:


> So does anyone actually have one yet?



Yeah. I do along with about 7 or 8 other folks in this thread.


----------



## Veldar

Deadpool_25 said:


> Yeah. I do along with about 7 or 8 other folks in this thread.



So is it good?
Does it very tight aggressive Meshuggah?

And is the clean actually better than a 5150?


----------



## Deadpool_25

Veldar said:


> So is it good?
> Does it very tight aggressive Meshuggah?
> 
> And is the clean actually better than a 5150?



Yes. 
Yes. 
Yes. 

Phenomenal amp. Worst thing about it is they’re so hard to find right now.


----------



## bsshiver

Veldar said:


> So is it good?
> Does it very tight aggressive Meshuggah?
> 
> And is the clean actually better than a 5150?



As Deadpool said, yes to all three. I found the clean a little dark at first, but I was able to EQ it to where it was nice and chimey, and the boost on that channel is awesome for mid-gain tones. The crunch and lead channels are also exactly what I was looking for, and the built-in boost for those does exactly what I wanted it to: tighten up the low end and add some compression. This is my first 5150/6505 kind of amp, so I was looking forward to this one, and I'm not disappointed!


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

OliOliver said:


> I've owned a couple EVHs in the past and I couldn't get along with them. Knowing that Gojira (supposedly) go straight in to their EVHs and ended up with the tone of The Way Of All Flesh always tempts me to try them again



They blended the 5153s with 6505s.


----------



## Deadpool_25

So I may or may not have just picked up a block letter to have something to compare it with.


----------



## narad

Deadpool_25 said:


> So I may or may not have just picked up a block letter to have something to compare it with.



Clips!


----------



## NateFalcon

Peavey’s since the Ultras are pretty comparative...all are tight, all will “djent” and the differences are subtle tone wise. If the Invective is based of the 5150, then it’s gonna be like every other Peavey “vs” scenario...so close it’ll always be a toss up to preference. The features (boost, gate) on the invective are cool, if you want that stuff “built in”, then get it....after dozens of Peavey heads I still have an Ultra plus, XXX, and 2-3120’s and it’s absolutely apples to apples when it comes to gain structure and tightness. You can’t go wrong with any of them, the features set them apart but you’re gonna find the same high gain, core tone in any of them


----------



## KailM

NateFalcon said:


> Peavey’s since the Ultras are pretty comparative...all are tight, all will “djent” and the differences are subtle tone wise. If the Invective is based of the 5150, then it’s gonna be like every other Peavey “vs” scenario...so close it’ll always be a toss up to preference. The features (boost, gate) on the invective are cool, if you want that stuff “built in”, then get it....after dozens of Peavey heads I still have an Ultra plus, XXX, and 2-3120’s and it’s absolutely apples to apples when it comes to gain structure and tightness. You can’t go wrong with any of them, the features set them apart but you’re gonna find the same high gain, core tone in any of them



Mostly I agree-- but, I notice a pretty big difference between my 6505 and my 6505+. Yes, they're in the same ballpark voice-wise, but I personally prefer the looser/slightly saggier and overall more ballsy 6505 mk 1. For me, there's a big enough difference to go with one over the other, depending on what you want.

The real draw of the Invective, for me, is the addition of not just a usable dedicated clean channel, but an excellent one. And you still get to keep your br00telz.


----------



## Matt08642

Deadpool_25 said:


> So I may or may not have just picked up a block letter to have something to compare it with.



post some clips dude


----------



## Deadpool_25

Yeah, yeah. I may finally break down and do a couple of short clips. No guarantees, but we will see in the next few days.

In general the Invective definitely seems seems very, very similar to the 5150 tonewise. However to get them sounding similar it takes balancing the channel post gain with the master volume. With the post gain low and master volume cranked the Invective seems brighter. With the post volume cranked and the master low, you lose a lot of high end brightness. It’s actually pretty cool because you can fine tune it, maybe for a certain guitar or whatever, in a way you can’t with the 5150.

Keep in mind that’s an initial impression and my Invective has that one preamp tube swapped out right now. I’ll swap the original tube in later to compare and see about a clip or two.


----------



## NateFalcon

I’m still interested to see where it “sits” with other Peaveys in side-by-sides, though. I just think they hit a ceiling in high gain amps years ago, that’s why you’re seeing more modded “derivatives” of high gain circuits (Fortin maxwatt, and pumpkin...tighter Recto clones etc) now...goes to show the 5150 is still a legendary base tone for metal. It’s hard to find a “unique” tone by plugging straight into anything...I tried that with Bogners, Peters and Diezels just to find out I had wasted money (for me) chasing a new tone that never gelled with me like a 5150 does...I’m sure the Invective gives that same feeling, just with more features and flexibility


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Deadpool_25 said:


> Yeah, yeah. I may finally break down and do a couple of short clips. No guarantees, but we will see in the next few days.
> 
> In general the Invective definitely seems seems very, very similar to the 5150 tonewise. However to get them sounding similar it takes balancing the channel post gain with the master volume. With the post gain low and master volume cranked the Invective seems brighter. With the post volume cranked and the master low, you lose a lot of high end brightness. It’s actually pretty cool because you can fine tune it, maybe for a certain guitar or whatever, in a way you can’t with the 5150.
> 
> Keep in mind that’s an initial impression and my Invective has that one preamp tube swapped out right now. I’ll swap the original tube in later to compare and see about a clip or two.



How's the Invective in bedroom volumes? Is the master volume as responsive as your Triple Crown?


----------



## Deadpool_25

MASS DEFECT said:


> How's the Invective in bedroom volumes? Is the master volume as responsive as your Triple Crown?



They are both excellent at bedroom volumes. They both work very similarly having master volumes, individual channel volumes, individual channel gains, and a master/solo boost function. All together that makes them exceptionally controllable at low volumes.


----------



## gujukal

Anyone knows if they are planning on a smaller low watt model? Would be awesome with something around 25w in a much smaller form factor, just overall much more suitable for gigging or take with you to a friend.


----------



## JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo

gujukal said:


> Anyone knows if they are planning on a smaller low watt model? Would be awesome with something around 25w in a much smaller form factor, just overall much more suitable for gigging or take with you to a friend.



Lower wattage, maybe just clean and lead channels, one loop, smaller footswitch and the right size to fit on a vertical 212 would be pretty killer. But really the full size head needs to get into full swing first.


----------



## gujukal

OliOliver said:


> Lower wattage, maybe just clean and lead channels, one loop, smaller footswitch and the right size to fit on a vertical 212 would be pretty killer. But really the full size head needs to get into full swing first.


Yupp, something along the lines of a EVH 5153 50w but separate EQ for the channels and only two channels and also even lower wattage. Maybe even make it a rack unit like the IronHeart Studio.


----------



## Deadpool_25

Clean and crunch is all you need if it has as much gain as the 120. The crunch channel has enough gain to cover both crunch and lead sounds. Especially if you keep the master boost function.

Edit: then again, no I guess it would need to be clean and lead on this amp, but hopefully they reduce the gain a bit on the lead channel because it has so much from the factory it gets a bit nuts over about 11 or 12 o'clock.


----------



## Threeve

Anyone have the 412 yet?


----------



## PrestoDone

just scoeed a focusrite 2pre usb..i i wi try to post some clips from the invective in the coming days...btw its a monster amp.


----------



## cmtd

Availability date pushed back yet again through guitar center


----------



## Unslaved

Im convinced Deadpool is the only person in the world who has one of these. Lol!


----------



## Werecow

No sign of a single one getting to the UK yet. I was going to get one but they've taken so long i've ended up being tempted by and getting an EVH 5150 Stealth instead.


----------



## Deadpool_25

Unslaved said:


> Im convinced Deadpool is the only person in the world who has one of these. Lol!



Unless I just photoshopped it into a pic of my house...

Edit: And tonight I’m playing it pretty loud through a Riverside into the clean channel. The clean channel is all set on noon. The Riverside is:
High gain
Mid push
Presence +
Drive: noon
B: 2:30
M: 11:30
T: 5:00 (dimed)
Level :1:30

And I’m liking it more than the Invective’s channel 2 or 3. At least tonight. I don’t think you’re supposed to be able to dial in that much high end and still have a usable tone. Interesting. There’s a mid “honk” to the Invective that I’m not jiving with right now. I’m guessing I could dial it out if I put my EQ back in the loop, but I’m too lazy for that. /shrug


----------



## JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo

Werecow said:


> No sign of a single one getting to the UK yet. I was going to get one but they've taken so long i've ended up being tempted by and getting an EVH 5150 Stealth instead.



I'd really love an Invective, but I've contacted several stores around the UK who have listings about any info on stock and none of them know anything. I'm considering saving up for the Maxwatt Fortin to fulfill my "straight-in, tight metal tone" quest. It'll cost £700 more than an Invective, but at least I know there'll be some in the country.


----------



## Werecow

OliOliver said:


> I'd really love an Invective, but I've contacted several stores around the UK who have listings about any info on stock and none of them know anything. I'm considering saving up for the Maxwatt Fortin to fulfill my "straight-in, tight metal tone" quest. It'll cost £700 more than an Invective, but at least I know there'll be some in the country.



I'm keeping an eye on that as well. A lot of GAS recently and i seem to be embracing it rather than resisting  I think the invective is off my radar now though with owning two 5150 amps.


----------



## PrestoDone

its realy sad whats happening with the invective...its a terrific amp, but les than 20 are in circulation. If anyone needs one i am willing to trade mine for a dumble amp...hehe


----------



## Andrew Lloyd Webber

It’s already so far into the product cycle that Misha will be pimping an Axe FX III with an Invective model in it before the real thing is ever made available.


----------



## Deadpool_25

PrestoDone said:


> its realy sad whats happening with the invective...its a terrific amp, but les than 20 are in circulation. If anyone needs one i am willing to trade mine for a dumble amp...hehe



20? I’ll take the over (but I wouldn’t bet a lot lmao).

I’d probably sell mine for the right offer. I figure they’ll get them out there eventually, and I could just pick up another one. My dumb ass has been gassing for a BE-50 Deluxe anyway. 

But....nahhhh. The Invective and Riverside gives me the tone versatility I need.


----------



## Deadpool_25

Andrew Lloyd Webber said:


> It’s already so far into the product cycle that Misha will be pimping an Axe FX III with an Invective model in it before the real thing is ever made available.



Lol. That’s pretty true. Although the Invective is already in the Axe FX if you think about it.


----------



## Andrew Lloyd Webber

Oh, you hush!

They aren’t supposed to know that they can have all the functionality of an impossible-to-acquire Invective in a cheaper used Axe FX with Periphery patches featuring a modded 5150, or that used Axe FXs have never been cheaper now that the III is out. Stop undermining one of the potential passive revenue streams of a world-touring, car-, guitar-, amp-, stompbox-, polo shirt-, and watch-collecting son of a foreign diplomat who brags about only touring his metal band as a hobby in the same breath he uses to complain about struggling to make ends meet.

The poor guy can’t even afford a vendor account, and you’re here telling people a way they can save money instead of buying his new thing that they can’t!


----------



## PrestoDone

hahah right on!


----------



## lurè

Geez, that was a lot of salt


----------



## crankyrayhanky

whoa....better watch out. He's obviously connected so I assume he could have a drone blow you up with a click of a mouse while he simultaneously works on a djenty mix on a second screen


----------



## Vyn

Andrew Lloyd Webber said:


> Oh, you hush!
> 
> They aren’t supposed to know that they can have all the functionality of an impossible-to-acquire Invective in a cheaper used Axe FX with Periphery patches featuring a modded 5150, or that used Axe FXs have never been cheaper now that the III is out. Stop undermining one of the potential passive revenue streams of a world-touring, car-, guitar-, amp-, stompbox-, polo shirt-, and watch-collecting son of a foreign diplomat who brags about only touring his metal band as a hobby in the same breath he uses to complain about struggling to make ends meet.
> 
> The poor guy can’t even afford a vendor account, and you’re here telling people a way they can save money instead of buying his new thing that they can’t!



I've been laughing for ten minutes. This was fantastic 

As a side note, (at least here in Aus anyway) getting ANY Peavey gear seems to be a bit difficult. Was looking into ordering one of the updated 6505 4x12 cabs w/V30's and I was surprised to be told that I'd be waiting quite a while for one (considering that cab is pretty much their bread and butter next to the 212-6 w/Greenbacks).

The Peavey distributor here has a list price for the Invective but still no date yet.


----------



## Shoeless_jose

Its gonna get nerfed by Bungie before most people get it


----------



## Masoo2

Andrew Lloyd Webber said:


> It’s already so far into the product cycle that Misha will be pimping an Axe FX III with an Invective model in it before the real thing is ever made available.


don't forget that he's working with Joey Sturgis Tones in developing an Invective/similar plugin


----------



## Andrew Lloyd Webber

Of course. The only way to double down on launching a signature amp after pimping the Axe FX with “amps are obsolete!” is to sell a digital model of the analog model of the digital model. I can’t wait to see the Youtube demo of a row of 2D knobs on an iMac screen, while the offscreen AxeFX III the guitar’s cable seems to be running out to wows us with the same 30 effects before and after the same old TS9/5150 recipe:

“I want you guys to see how it sounds _straight in_!” *literal closeup of monitor screen with VST tempo light flashing, while fully produced song from next Periphery album plays*

Unrelated question: How many watches would one need to own in order to, let’s say, _*extend fifteen minutes*_?


----------



## Axayacatl

Andrew Lloyd Webber said:


> Of course. The only way to double down on launching a signature amp after pimping the Axe FX with “amps are obsolete!” is to sell a digital model of the analog model of the digital model. I can’t wait to see the Youtube demo of a row of 2D knobs on an iMac screen, while the offscreen AxeFX III the guitar’s cable seems to be running out to wows us with the same 30 effects before and after the same old TS9/5150 recipe:
> 
> “I want you guys to see how it sounds _straight in_!” *literal closeup of monitor screen with VST tempo light flashing, while fully produced song from next Periphery album plays*
> 
> Unrelated question: How many watches would one need to own in order to, let’s say, _*extend fifteen minutes*_?





lol... dude... where is all this deep *hurt* coming from? Did Daddy forget the safe word again?


----------



## Andrew Lloyd Webber

Nah. I’m just a lazy hack; and making fun of production issues the artist has no control over is like playing wiffle ball. Obviously, the public successes and failures are due to bulb having done way more in the last few years than I’ll ever even attempt in my sedentary life.

When you burst out of the gate pitching a vaporware product with the name “Invective”, the jokes write themselves.


----------



## Deadpool_25

Lol! ALW is on a roll.


----------



## Shoeless_jose

Finally found a good invective supply


----------



## Flappydoodle

Andrew Lloyd Webber said:


> Of course. The only way to double down on launching a signature amp after pimping the Axe FX with “amps are obsolete!” is to sell a digital model of the analog model of the digital model. I can’t wait to see the Youtube demo of a row of 2D knobs on an iMac screen, while the offscreen AxeFX III the guitar’s cable seems to be running out to wows us with the same 30 effects before and after the same old TS9/5150 recipe:
> 
> “I want you guys to see how it sounds _straight in_!” *literal closeup of monitor screen with VST tempo light flashing, while fully produced song from next Periphery album plays*
> 
> Unrelated question: How many watches would one need to own in order to, let’s say, _*extend fifteen minutes*_?



Actually, the funniest thing recently was seeing the Periphery "rig rundown" video on YouTube, with Misha awkwardly trying to explain why he had an amp and cab after singing praises of AXE-FX for years and years. 

It was especially awkward when it became apparent that he wasn't using it very much at all, that it didn't integrate well into their whole click-track MIDI-controlled system, that he had made the band's entire rig more complicated and annoying for basically no reason at all.

So yeah, basically I imagine that Peavey contacted him and he just said yes - because, fuck turning down a pay check, right?

Even funnier how I'm pretty sure that the album was recorded with a Friedman patch, not 5150 anyway.

Guys like him will, IMO, eventually see their influence run out. He's willing to endorse and sing the praises of absolutely anything that pays him - it's hard to respect that. I won't attack him for trying to make money, but I hope that more people will wisen up to how that whole industry works and that the "opinions" of these people is worthless.


----------



## Andrew Lloyd Webber

If you want to go there, it’s worth pointing out that duplicitous, personality-driven gear sales and oversaturated Youtube fanfare is all djent really is or will be associated with. Remove ten years of technological innovations in social currency from that pond, and you’re back to square-Meshuggah.

Strictly my opinion, of course - My point is that every djent player regarded enough beyond the scope of their band to be referred to by name is selling a product that promises to djent, and that that’s exactly what I expect from the turds who float to the top of a scene understanding that fashion alone dictates when they’re all going to be flushed. Sir Mix-a-Lot is the role model for the djent entrepreneur looking for passive revenue streams as the dignified path off a sinking ship while still climbing over their peers.

“Djent” is a branding, along the lines of “gluten-free”, “non-GMO”, and “Fair Trade”: I recognize that somebody’s selling a fad-based identity as soon as I see it on the shelf. I can’t take it seriously, much less personally. That product’s not intended for me; so I don’t worry about it. Let those eager to be parted from their money and those eager to part them from their money continue doing what comes naturally.

What, just because some amps are having a hard time making it to the walls of a Guitar Center, we’re going to be outraged on the behalf of a target consumer base that only exists to settle for less when it’s branded “djent”? We can trust them to move on to their next abomination in short order, then post hyperbolic reviews of some four digit-purchase they didn’t like by time they got it home, anyway. There’s nothing new under the sun; so let’s not waste time in the present pretending djent is any more exploitative than any other lifestyle-subgenre that was formulated to pander to the unschooled musician: It’s djent today, and it will be dgone tomorrow.

But we can have fun with it in the meantime.


----------



## feraledge

Andrew Lloyd Webber said:


> “Djent” is a branding, along the lines of “gluten-free”, “non-GMO”, and “Fair Trade”: I recognize that somebody’s selling a fad-based identity as soon as I see it on the shelf. I can’t take it seriously, much less personally. That product’s not intended for me; so I don’t worry about it. Let those eager to be parted from their money and those eager to part them from their money continue doing what comes naturally.


I know you're on the fifth encore for an audience of one and that you very much like all your little quips, but in just catching some of it and then seeing this monstrosity of a paragraph, maybe just take a knee for a minute. 
Djent is a genre, Periphery is a band that formed in 2005 and is seemingly still increasing in popularity. To give it some perspective, Metallica formed in 1981, released 'Master' in 1986, lost Cliff and still had 'And Justice' out in 1988, then started a massive shift with the black album in 1991. I'm sure there were plenty of old heavy metal bastards who were talking about thrash as a brand, but guess what, it's a genre. Like it or not, Periphery is still around and in the same trajectory in the time it took for Metallica to take the reigns of a genre and then leave it forever, creating a legacy that dudes like me, who are pushing 40 or older, still, failingly, want to hold them up to. 
Is Periphery Metallica? Definitely not. But there are definitely a lot of kids who see Periphery the way I see Metallica. And by all objective means, they're even more consistent at it than Metallica was. 
You don't like djent? Cool. I genuinely like none of it. But that changes nothing. It is what it is. 

Your comparisons though? Jesus dude. The first GMO product sold was in 1994. So that means every single thing eaten in the history of the world before that was 100% non-GMO. Fad-based? Just because it's popping up on your radar now, that doesn't make it so. You don't take it personally? Why the hell would you?? 
We're all entitled to opinions, but you don't have to clog up threads with "here's other things I don't like, so they must be fake" and shit like that. 
Want to have a conspiracy about Misha shilling an amp to sell sims? Cool. You've said it. Seems highly unlikely, I know Misha has made bad moves before but he did his work on this amp and promoting it. By all means, if they ever really come out and have no issues, they should be pretty killer. It's not his fault that after making amps for 53 years Peavey suddenly can't make them right or within any reasonable/projected time frame. 

I have no problem with holding people accountable for shit like propping up BS companies like BRJ or Stricly 7, shit like that, but Horizon Devices is doing great, Jackson's largely doing good, and I never complained about Peavey amps, no reason to have expected these issues. Whatever Misha did before, he seems to have learned his lessons and anchored himself more responsibly, I can't see how Invective issues lie at his feet nor why his reputation comes into question on schemes you've thought up.


----------



## Andrew Lloyd Webber

Edit: New page; so nevermind.


----------



## bluffalo

Soooo... 5150's are cool right?

It doesn't say Misha's name on the box. If there were no videos or websites and peavey made the invective, it's a 5150 that's been updated in the end.

Suits me. I'll get one when I can order one in Australia.


----------



## bulb

bluffalo said:


> Soooo... 5150's are cool right?
> 
> It doesn't say Misha's name on the box. If there were no videos or websites and peavey made the invective, it's a 5150 that's been updated in the end.
> 
> Suits me. I'll get one when I can order one in Australia.


Yeah haha doesn't say my name anywhere on the amp, it's a shame about the delays, but hopefully they make it over to Australia soon!


----------



## Flappydoodle

Andrew Lloyd Webber said:


> If you want to go there, it’s worth pointing out that duplicitous, personality-driven gear sales and oversaturated Youtube fanfare is all djent really is or will be associated with. Remove ten years of technological innovations in social currency from that pond, and you’re back to square-Meshuggah.
> 
> Strictly my opinion, of course - My point is that every djent player regarded enough beyond the scope of their band to be referred to by name is selling a product that promises to djent, and that that’s exactly what I expect from the turds who float to the top of a scene understanding that fashion alone dictates when they’re all going to be flushed. Sir Mix-a-Lot is the role model for the djent entrepreneur looking for passive revenue streams as the dignified path off a sinking ship while still climbing over their peers.
> 
> “Djent” is a branding, along the lines of “gluten-free”, “non-GMO”, and “Fair Trade”: I recognize that somebody’s selling a fad-based identity as soon as I see it on the shelf. I can’t take it seriously, much less personally. That product’s not intended for me; so I don’t worry about it. Let those eager to be parted from their money and those eager to part them from their money continue doing what comes naturally.
> 
> What, just because some amps are having a hard time making it to the walls of a Guitar Center, we’re going to be outraged on the behalf of a target consumer base that only exists to settle for less when it’s branded “djent”? We can trust them to move on to their next abomination in short order, then post hyperbolic reviews of some four digit-purchase they didn’t like by time they got it home, anyway. There’s nothing new under the sun; so let’s not waste time in the present pretending djent is any more exploitative than any other lifestyle-subgenre that was formulated to pander to the unschooled musician: It’s djent today, and it will be dgone tomorrow.
> 
> But we can have fun with it in the meantime.



I actually like Periphery's music, so I'll never bash them for that. It's creative, takes talent to create, and their production is top-notch. Every member of the band is talented, without doubt.

You are right about the fad aspect, though I don't see Misha or any of the other guys overtly pushing that branding. I think they just want to make music, and obviously cash in on as many opportunities as possible along the way - fair enough. My only point was that if you keep doing that, people will stop taking you seriously.


----------



## Edika

Going back on topic, I'd still be interested to try the amp as I love my 5150II. The Green channel on crunch mode with the pregain high enough and a boost and the red channel are pure joy to play but the "clean" channel is only high frequencies with no body or life whatsoever.

I really hope this amp doesn't take the Devin Townsend 7 string V route.


----------



## bulb

Edika said:


> I really hope this amp doesn't take the Devin Townsend 7 string V route.



Nothing in life is certain, but as much as my influence on things allows, I will work to make sure that doesn’t happen. I really want this amp to be out and readily available too!


----------



## Deadpool_25

bulb said:


> Nothing in life is certain, but as much as my influence on things allows, I will work to make sure that doesn’t happen. I really want this amp to be out and readily available too!



Any idea how many are actually on the streets?


----------



## prlgmnr

Deadpool_25 said:


> Any idea how many are actually on the streets?


What, starving djent musicians?


----------



## Seabeast2000

prlgmnr said:


> What, starving djent musicians?


Djent busking? Hmm.


----------



## bulb

Deadpool_25 said:


> Any idea how many are actually on the streets?


Hmm I'm not actually sure to be honest, I think there might be between 40-50 out now but with 100-150 hitting the market soon. However there are things in motion that I'm working on to address these issues. 

There was a fundamental misunderstanding of the demand on the amps with Peavey. They thought people would want only 50-100 a year, but found themselves having to cap off the initial orders at 400 as I understand it.

It's unfortunate, but as it stands it's out of my hands. Not an ideal start, but I'm glad that dealer interest is strong, and I think that once Peavey can actually get these out we will be in a good place!


----------



## Deadpool_25

@bulb Cool man. Thanks.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

The906 said:


> Djent busking? Hmm.


isn't that how mike dawes got popular


----------



## Vyn

bulb said:


> Hmm I'm not actually sure to be honest, I think there might be between 40-50 out now but with 100-150 hitting the market soon. However there are things in motion that I'm working on to address these issues.
> 
> There was a fundamental misunderstanding of the demand on the amps with Peavey. They thought people would want only 50-100 a year, but found themselves having to cap off the initial orders at 400 as I understand it.
> 
> It's unfortunate, but as it stands it's out of my hands. Not an ideal start, but I'm glad that dealer interest is strong, and I think that once Peavey can actually get these out we will be in a good place!



There's a lot of hype around it, not just because of who produced it/collaborated on the design, but because it's actually got a stack of features that make perfect sense for guitarists of any persuasion, especially metal guitarists. When you think about it, most valve amps have remained with the same feature set for the last 50 years, the occasional boost control or eq range sweep toggle here and there etc. This is actually the most modern update to an amp for a while (excluding modelling) so no wonder demand is high.


----------



## Meeotch

Yep! You could cut the tension in this thread with a butter knife, but I keep reading because I'd love to see this amp hit the market. Awesome features, a solid foundation, and a cool history with Misha.

To be honest, I had the amp on order but after many delays I bought something else. I'd bet this is the case with many musicians, and I hope Peavey can learn from this oversight. Something tells me there will still be plenty of buyers if Peavey can just release the damn thing, for real!


----------



## Deadpool_25

Anyone have a BE-50 Deluxe? I’ll trade you straight up.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Is Peavey tone deaf? Lots of buzz online, and they think "people would only want 50-100 a year"? I think even at 400/yr it's a bit limiting, but you don't want to KISS solo album the thing either. (basically, KISS had a ton of product in record stores, and it looked like it never sold; which was bad from a 'brand' standpoint.)


----------



## mnemonic

Their most popular amp of all time, updated with modern features and the biggest complaint (clean channel) addressed. Yeah, sounds like a low-demand product to me. gg Peavey.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

mnemonic said:


> Their most popular amp of all time, updated with modern features and the biggest complaint (clean channel) addressed. Yeah, sounds like a low-demand product to me. gg Peavey.


Yeah. Noise gate and overdrive boost for gain channels, a proper clean channel, all built around Peavey's most popular amp, and Peavey thinks 50-100 a year should meet demand. 

Sorry, but either Peavey is clueless or wanted to artificially limit the availability so they could "resale" these on Reverb for quite a bit of cash. "Buy it very much like new for $2250, or wait months for it to become available through Sweetwater, etc." Judging from how many things have reached absolutely absurd levels in terms of resale (such as the Klon, Dumble amps), this doesn't seem too out there to me.


----------



## katsumura78

Sweetwater had 1-2 in stock last night and I missed out so got on the preorder list today. They’re saying 2-3 weeks on the next batch. Fingers crossed.


----------



## Unslaved

No offense to Misha, but he's the wrong guy to associate with this amp. I can see Misha pushing some digital gear like an AxeFX or something.

Peavey 5150 is the old school classic amp for classic and death metal. Those are the type of fans that would be interested in an updated 5150....but when they see a djent dude is pushing it?............ Yeah they probably wouldn't give it the time of day. 

Peavey needs someone less djenty to push it.

Brings me to another point.....we're approaching one whole year since the original release date! Happy anniverssssssss..............ah fuggit!


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Unslaved said:


> No offense to Misha, but he's the wrong guy to associate with this amp. I can see Misha pushing some digital gear like an AxeFX or something.
> 
> Peavey 5150 is the old school classic amp for classic and death metal. Those are the type of fans that would be interested in an updated 5150....but when they see a djent dude is pushing it?............ Yeah they probably wouldn't give it the time of day.
> 
> Peavey needs someone less djenty to push it.
> 
> Brings me to another point.....we're approaching one whole year since the original release date! Happy anniverssssssss..............ah fuggit!


 the 5150 has proven it's more than capable for basically any genre (except for country lol). I think it excels at death metal (which misha plays- in haunted shores). 
No matter what I think the specs/features speak for themselves. I was legit considering getting one of these or a 5153 until I found a mkiv locally.
This is just another case of peavey shitting the bed like they did with devin townsend's sig guitar. They overpromised and can't even deliver.


----------



## feraledge

Unslaved said:


> Peavey needs someone less djenty to push it.


Peavey needs someone else to promote an amp that they can’t seem to build fast enough?
Cool logic. And you do know @bulb was directly involved in every step of the R&D right? And he named it. Oh yeah, and it’s his signature amp. Kind of matters.


----------



## feraledge

Guess the whole 5150 line should have just stayed in the hands of death metal juggernauts. Like Eddie Van Halen.


----------



## mnemonic

Even if the 5150 were only popular in the death metal scene, it would still make more sense for someone like Misha, in the ‘djent’ scene which is experiencing a lot of growth, to promote it so that the amp can get more exposure to other people who might not nessesarily have considered it.


----------



## Andrew Lloyd Webber

mnemonic said:


> the ‘djent’ scene which is experiencing a lot of growth



http://www.sevenstring.org/threads/misha-we-periphery-make-no-money.328712/


----------



## feraledge

Andrew Lloyd Webber said:


> http://www.sevenstring.org/threads/misha-we-periphery-make-no-money.328712/


Except the point of that thread is that the shifts in the music industry push away from growth meaning money in the pocket. New outreach can mean more expenses and the scaling is all off which is _why_ he said he does make money from things like signature gear, such as guitars, pedals and amps....




...when they actually come out.
But he points this out specifically because gear is the most easily monetized aspect that they're gaining from their growth. It's a platform which outperforms sales. So it's not an argument about stunted growth and reach, just that it's harder to make a living off of the music alone.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

mnemonic said:


> Even if the 5150 were only popular in the death metal scene, it would still make more sense for someone like Misha, in the ‘djent’ scene which is experiencing a lot of growth, to promote it so that the amp can get more exposure to other people who might not nessesarily have considered it.



Lol remember that time in the late 90s when all the Nu Metal bands played Mesa Rectifiers? If only the guys from Korn or Godsmack did a recto sig hahaha


----------



## Seabeast2000

MASS DEFECT said:


> Lol remember that time in the late 90s when all the Nu Metal bands played Mesa Rectifiers? If only the guys from Korn or Godsmack did a recto sig hahaha


Is there such a thing as a Mesa sig model?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

The906 said:


> Is there such a thing as a Mesa sig model?









Also I think the King Snake was kind of a Carlos Santana sig model.


----------



## Seabeast2000

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Also I think the King Snake was kind of a Carlos Santana sig model.


Ahh oh yeah, thanks for the reminder. Surprisingly very few sig models for a pretty legendary company.


----------



## FitRocker33

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Also I think the King Snake was kind of a Carlos Santana sig model.



Don’t forget the Mesa heartbreaker that was supposedly a Tom 
Petty amp.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

FitRocker33 said:


> Don’t forget the Mesa heartbreaker that was supposedly a Tom
> Petty amp.



http://www.mesaboogie.com/support/out-of-production/heartbreaker.html



> _There is no association nor any implied endorsement between the Heartbreaker amplifier and Tom Petty or Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers_


----------



## Unslaved

feraledge said:


> Peavey needs someone else to promote an amp that they can’t seem to build fast enough?
> Cool logic. And you do know @bulb was directly involved in every step of the R&D right? And he named it. Oh yeah, and it’s his signature amp. Kind of matters.


Touchy arent we?


----------



## feraledge

Unslaved said:


> Touchy arent we?


Don't confuse disbelief with outrage. You just said something that was outlandishly stupid.


----------



## FitRocker33

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> http://www.mesaboogie.com/support/out-of-production/heartbreaker.html



I stand corrected.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Unslaved said:


> Touchy arent we?



But is he wrong?  The supposed reason the amp is still isn't here is because it can't meet demand. Although I also think it's because Peavey tends to be shit with newly-released products... given their history with botching sig products. 

I can see why Peavey went for him though. A band that has a huuuuge following of gearheads with tons of disposable income.


----------



## Flappydoodle

Unslaved said:


> No offense to Misha, but he's the wrong guy to associate with this amp. I can see Misha pushing some digital gear like an AxeFX or something.
> 
> Peavey 5150 is the old school classic amp for classic and death metal. Those are the type of fans that would be interested in an updated 5150....but when they see a djent dude is pushing it?............ Yeah they probably wouldn't give it the time of day.
> 
> Peavey needs someone less djenty to push it.
> 
> Brings me to another point.....we're approaching one whole year since the original release date! Happy anniverssssssss..............ah fuggit!



I also don't understand how Peavey couldn't have come up with those "innovations" themselves. A noise gate, basic MIDI, and a clean channel - how revolutionary! How did they never think of that in 40 years? Why did it even need to be a signature amp?


----------



## Meeotch

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I can see why Peavey went for him though.



I dunno. My impression is that Misha honestly loves the 5150 and that it was more of a collaboration to bring modern features to a historic amp, rather than Peavey targeting him. Maybe I'm being too non-judgemental? Or maybe some are being too judgemental?


----------



## Seabeast2000

Meeotch said:


> I dunno. My impression is that Misha honestly loves the 5150 and that it was more of a collaboration to bring modern features to a historic amp, rather than Peavey targeting him. Maybe I'm being too non-judgemental? Or maybe some are being too judgemental?


Noob question, I thought the 5150 was EVH/Fender brand and 6505 was the Peavey?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

The906 said:


> Noob question, I thought the 5150 was EVH/Fender brand and 6505 was the Peavey?



Peavey introduced the 5150 in 1991 as Van Halen's sig amp, then the 5150II in 1998 as a revised version based on mods done to one of his touring 5150s. When He and Peavey split in 2005, Eddie took the 5150 name with him and they renamed the 5150 to the 6505 as sort of a 40-year commemorative thing (1965 - 2005). Eddie then formed EVH with Fender, and released his new amp as the 5150 III a year or two later.


----------



## Seabeast2000

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Peavey introduced the 5150 in 1991 as Van Halen's sig amp, then the 5150II in 1998 as a revised version based on mods done to one of his touring 5150s. When He and Peavey split in 2005, Eddie took the 5150 name with him and they renamed the 5150 to the 6505 as sort of a 40-year commemorative thing (1965 - 2005). Eddie then formed EVH with Fender, and released his new amp as the 5150 III a year or two later.


Thanks, I am enlightened.


----------



## PrestoDone

https://ibb.co/cO1uzc
Just in case you guys thought it was a myth...fired the bad boy up on a rainey los los angeles day

https://ibb.co/myfXkH


----------



## Seabeast2000

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Peavey introduced the 5150 in 1991 as Van Halen's sig amp, then the 5150II in 1998 as a revised version based on mods done to one of his touring 5150s. When He and Peavey split in 2005, Eddie took the 5150 name with him and they renamed the 5150 to the 6505 as sort of a 40-year commemorative thing (1965 - 2005). Eddie then formed EVH with Fender, and released his new amp as the 5150 III a year or two later.


Another question, was the 6505 the XXX replacement? Name only or new design?


----------



## PrestoDone

The xxx and the 6505 are completly different amps...


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

The906 said:


> Another question, was the 6505 the XXX replacement? Name only or new design?



No the 6505 replace the 5150 and the 6505+ replaced the 51502. The XXX was replaced by the 3120.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Didn't the XXX replace the Ultra or whatever it was called?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Didn't the XXX replace the Ultra or whatever it was called?


Yeh. Iirc the XXX was designed by George Lynch who was big into Rectos at the time.


----------



## Unslaved

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> But is he wrong?  The supposed reason the amp is still isn't here is because it can't meet demand. Although I also think it's because Peavey tends to be shit with newly-released products... given their history with botching sig products.
> 
> I can see why Peavey went for him though. A band that has a huuuuge following of gearheads with tons of disposable income.


Hah no hes absolutely correct!


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Yeh. Iirc the XXX was designed by George Lynch who was big into Rectos at the time.


And why'd he leave? Oh, right. Because it took Peavey too long to get it out, so he moved on and went with Randall. 

Actually, I think I skipped one, Genz-Benz, but he basically went from Peavey to Randall.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Then the JSX was the Recto Marshall thing for Peavey. That was a bit successful and went on for quite some time. I remember the JSX even had a little combo. It was renamed to XXXII when Satch moved to Marshall. 

And I think now it is already discontinued. Too bad, it was an awesome amp. I remeber seeing Havok with those.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

MASS DEFECT said:


> Then the JSX was the Recto Marshall thing for Peavey. That was a bit successful and went on for quite some time. I remember the JSX even had a little combo. It was renamed to XXXII when Satch moved to Marshall.
> 
> And I think now it is already discontinued. Too bad, it was an awesome amp. I remeber seeing Havok with those.


The XXXII probably only lasted a year. Maybe two.


----------



## Vyn

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Peavey introduced the 5150 in 1991 as Van Halen's sig amp, then the 5150II in 1998 as a revised version based on mods done to one of his touring 5150s. When He and Peavey split in 2005, Eddie took the 5150 name with him and they renamed the 5150 to the 6505 as sort of a 40-year commemorative thing (1965 - 2005). Eddie then formed EVH with Fender, and released his new amp as the 5150 III a year or two later.



So what you're saying is that I need to get multiple amp heads


----------



## Shoeless_jose

Spaced Out Ace said:


> The XXXII probably only lasted a year. Maybe two.



The 3120 was what I think the successor was eventually named and then even that is gone now. One of the guys in Protest the Hero used one for a while.


----------



## Shoeless_jose

Also all the dudes being salty about Misha being "djent djude" is pathetic, who cares what the artist plays especially when its promoting a product it's not like you have to listen to his music. (which I have no problems with by the way)

And seriously just sucks to see this kind of vitriol directed at other musicians in the community. Like don't you guys remember why you like metal in the first place, because pop music sucked balls, you wanted something hard, fast and aggressive that pushed the limits and made you feel dangerous.

Too shit all over someone else who is trying to make music that they're inspired too.... just because it has too much high mids or many artists in that vein use similar modelling patches.... man it makes me wonder if there's any hope.

Anyways rant over.... let's get this damn amp on the streets though.


----------



## Andrew Lloyd Webber

Dineley said:


> don't you guys remember why you like metal in the first place, because pop music sucked balls, you wanted something hard, fast and aggressive that pushed the limits and made you feel dangerous.


----------



## Shoeless_jose

Andrew Lloyd Webber said:


>


well played


----------



## Andrew Lloyd Webber

Even though your rant was rhetorical, I agree, and think a few people are just doing a poor job of expressing feeling burnt out on their only consistent interactions with djent being someone selling a premium must-have. It’s like getting a daily sales newsletter from a store you bought a guitar cable from ten years ago.


----------



## Deadpool_25

Dineley said:


> Like don't you guys remember why you like metal in the first place, because* [anything popular must be shit]*, you wanted something hard, fast and aggressive that pushed the limits and made you feel dangerous.



This is a standard thing and has been for decades (centuries, I’m sure). It’s the rebel spirit taken to the extreme where people are disinclined to like anything popular. They feel the need to tear it down because too many people like it. When things get too big/popular, they start being (consciously or subconsciously) associated with “the system” and are thusly despised.

In part, I think it comes from a belief that most people are stupid sheep (which I actually agree with). It can follow that if too many people like something, you can’t like it too because then you’re agreeing with the sheeple. But this is single level thinking and actually runs counter to thinking for yourself.

/philosophizing off 

Edit: this is not to say that everyone bitching in this thread feels this way. Just an early-morning, pre-work, pre-caffeine semi-philosophical rant.


----------



## USMarine75

I'm still just glad Peavey finally has a signature product lol...


----------



## RustInPeace

The JSX was a refined XXX for JS with a smoother gain structure (and less gain overall as well) and added features like the deep switches and the built in noise gate. The 3120 is just a rebranded XXX, and the XXX2 is the rebranded JSX.


----------



## Soya

USMarine75 said:


> I'm still just glad Peavey finally has a signature product lol...



Uh they still don't.


----------



## Deadpool_25

Soya said:


> Uh they still don't.



True. Because it’s not a signature amp.


----------



## feraledge

Spaced Out Ace said:


> And why'd he leave? Oh, right. Because it took Peavey too long to get it out, so he moved on and went with Randall.
> 
> Actually, I think I skipped one, Genz-Benz, but he basically went from Peavey to Randall.


Legit didn't know any of that. Peavey really has a reputation for burning some signature bridges, eh? 
Off topic, but I've seen Suffocation make XXXs sound solid, but I have a feeling the tubes on the one I had for a while must have been fucked or something. It had 0 balance. Of all the tube amps I've had, I genuinely didn't like that one. 
Anyways, here's to the Invective actually coming out in full production at some point. Would love to hear one in person.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Yeah Suffocation with those XXX/3120 amps sounded great live. Those vader cabs with v12s tamed that fizzy high end.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

I think Peavey's ability to deal with sig gear went away when James Brown left the company in the mid-2000s. After he left, every sig product they released became a shit-show.


----------



## bulb

Andrew Lloyd Webber said:


> Even though your rant was rhetorical, I agree, and think a few people are just doing a poor job of expressing feeling burnt out on their only consistent interactions with djent being someone selling a premium must-have. It’s like getting a daily sales newsletter from a store you bought a guitar cable from ten years ago.



I don't know if this intentional on your part, but your posts definitely make you come off as bitter and old, so why not freshen up your tone and stay relevant with a fancy new Horizon Devices Precision Drive! 

You will still be bitter and old, but at least you will have sick OD pedal hahah.


----------



## oniduder

bulb said:


> I don't know if this intentional on your part, but your posts definitely make you come off as bitter and old, so why not freshen up your tone and stay relevant with a fancy new Horizon Devices Precision Drive!
> 
> You will still be bitter and old, but at least you will have sick OD pedal hahah.



as an old bitter duder (my lawn looks great btw), and a fan of andrew lloyd webber bette milder and any version of cats or the phantom of the opera

i was curious about the presicion drive, how would you compare it to other overdrives, i like the airis effects stuff and idk but there's plenty out there, the gate is a selling point i think what other pedals have you played and liked?

bette milder loves you


----------



## bulb

oniduder said:


> as an old bitter duder (my lawn looks great btw), and a fan of andrew lloyd webber bette milder and any version of cats or the phantom of the opera
> 
> i was curious about the presicion drive, how would you compare it to other overdrives, i like the airis effects stuff and idk but there's plenty out there, the gate is a selling point i think what other pedals have you played and liked?
> 
> bette milder loves you



I'd say that the attack knob really allows you to get the most out of it with different rigs/tunings/string gauges as those were always the main factors that were making me choose different ODs for different setups. Also given that ODs always introduce noise, the gate was something I felt made sense to have, and it definitely allows the pedal to not only have no impact to added noise overall, but can also just work as a gate in your rig which is nice!


----------



## Cynicanal

oniduder said:


> as an old bitter duder (my lawn looks great btw), and a fan of andrew lloyd webber bette milder and any version of cats or the phantom of the opera
> 
> i was curious about the presicion drive, how would you compare it to other overdrives, i like the airis effects stuff and idk but there's plenty out there, the gate is a selling point i think what other pedals have you played and liked?
> 
> bette milder loves you



One of my friends has a PD. We tested it against a TS9, an OD808, and a OCD Fulltone, and found it was the worst of the three. The PD made everything sound smaller and weak.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Now we have a 412 cab. 







https://www.sweetwater.com/store/de...tive-412-240-watt-4x12-inch-extension-cabinet

That's expensive.


----------



## Cynicanal

Eh, that's pretty standard for a quality 4x12. And the parallel wiring thing _is_ pretty cool.


----------



## Deadpool_25

That is a cool looking cab specs-wise. It is pretty expensive for sure but it’s the same price as a Mesa Recto 4x12 so not out of line I guess. Also, solid pine construction (as opposed to pine ply) and finger joining would add a bit to the cost?

But F that 4x12 thing. Loving my custom 2x12 that people regularly mistake for a 4x12.


----------



## Deadpool_25

Cynicanal said:


> One of my friends has a PD. We tested it against a TS9, an OD808, and a OCD Fulltone, and found it was the worst of the three. The PD made everything sound smaller and weak.



Interesting. I have a PD and a Maxon OD808 and I can get them to sound absolutely identical. /shrug


----------



## Cynicanal

That's really weird to hear; we played with the settings on the PD a ton, and the closest we could get had the attack all the way down, Bright at about 9'o clock, and volume at about half, and even then, the PD seemed like it was just zero-ing in on the pick attack and killing the whole "body" of the note.

(For reference on the others, we couldn't tell any difference between the TS9 and OD808. We preferred the TS9/OD808 through my Twin Jet and his 5153, and the OCD through my Ironheart.)


----------



## Deadpool_25

Isn’t the OCD a lot different from the TS circuit?

The PD is kinda weird in that noon on at least the bright and volume knobs are like having the corresponding knobs on a TS dimed. At least I think I remember hearing @bulb say that on a video or two. Not sure if that’s true on the drive knob too. Maybe he can confirm.


----------



## Cynicanal

Yeah, the OCD is a lot flatter. That's why it worked better through the Ironheart -- through the 5153 or TJ, it got flubby, but the main reason I boost an Ironheart is to saturate it more since the last thing that amp needs is "tighter".


----------



## crankyrayhanky

Cynicanal said:


> One of my friends has a PD. We tested it against a TS9, an OD808, and a OCD Fulltone, and found it was the worst of the three. The PD made everything sound smaller and weak.


I had a PD for a short time. It didn't jive with my amps, but I think if I had a looser 5150 or Recto it would have worked well.
Sort of the same experience with the Fortin Grind- very amp dependent


----------



## Deadpool_25

bsshiver said:


> As Deadpool said, yes to all three. I found the clean a little dark at first, but I was able to EQ it to where it was nice and chimey, and the boost on that channel is awesome for mid-gain tones. The crunch and lead channels are also exactly what I was looking for, and the built-in boost for those does exactly what I wanted it to: tighten up the low end and add some compression. This is my first 5150/6505 kind of amp, so I was looking forward to this one, and I'm not disappointed!



About getting the clean nice and chimey, did you basically just lower the bass? I tried that and did manage to get the clean sounding more sparkly and less compressed.


----------



## FitRocker33

I had a PD for a few months and eventually sold it and rebought a Maxon 808 because it seemed to me the PD caused my sound to be harsh no matter what I did with the knobs and putting the attack past the 1st or 2nd position sucked all the balls from the tone and basically made it a razor sharp djenty/metalzone-esque tone that was just not inspiring to me..

But hey to each their own. Try new things and some stick, some don’t.


----------



## lurè

Before the PD I've had a Maxon 808 and a DeadHorse Deluxe.
For me the PD is hands down the best of the 3.
The 808 lacks the attack of PD and the deadhorse was tremendously noisy.


----------



## bsshiver

double post


----------



## bsshiver

Deadpool_25 said:


> About getting the clean nice and chimey, did you basically just lower the bass? I tried that and did manage to get the clean sounding more sparkly and less compressed.



I lowered the bass and bumped up the treble to taste. It really is a great clean channel!

Edit: One other thing I like about it is that, by default, the clean works great when you coil-tap because it is so thick. I only lower the bass and raise the treble when I’m trying to get chimey cleans on a full humbucker.


----------



## feraledge

Cynicanal said:


> Eh, that's pretty standard for a quality 4x12. And the parallel wiring thing _is_ pretty cool.


I almost didn't believe it, but I haven't bought a new cab in well over a decade. They've gotten really damn expensive! I'll continue my nearly life long habit of never buying cabs new. But it's crazy because I've gotten Peavey 6505 cabs new for nothing before. I got one as like a doorbuster deal from GC for like $150 once. I think they mislabeled the sign, like $150 with purchase of a head, but I took advantage of that shit for sure.


----------



## phil.g13

Yeahhh!!! Here it is! Brand new and freshly delivered today! Awsome amp!!


----------



## Deadpool_25

phil.g13 said:


> Yeahhh!!! Here it is! Brand new and freshly delivered today! Awsome amp!!



Congrats man. That makes 13 (14?) owners in this thread.


----------



## Vyn

Deadpool_25 said:


> Congrats man. That makes 13 (14?) owners in this thread.



That's pretty impressive if they are only making 50-100 units for this year. over 10% ownership on this forum alone haha.


----------



## Meeotch

phil.g13 said:


> Yeahhh!!! Here it is! Brand new and freshly delivered today! Awsome amp!!



Pretty sweet first post! Welcome to the board, and how about a review of your new amp?


----------



## cmtd

Looks like we are pushed back to May now, at least through GC.


----------



## Deadpool_25

Vyn said:


> That's pretty impressive if they are only making 50-100 units for this year. over 10% ownership on this forum alone haha.



Lol. True.


----------



## Andrew Lloyd Webber

You guys must feel like DeLorean owners.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

cmtd said:


> Looks like we are pushed back to May now, at least through GC.


This shit is getting pretty comical.


----------



## katsumura78

Hopefully Sweetwater didn’t get pushed back. I was told 2-3 weeks and I preordered last week.


----------



## bracky

If I were peavey I’d move heaven and earth to get these things built seeing that there is pent up demand.


----------



## Womb raider

Maybe the big box stores are getting delays but there are Invectives out there that can be bought right now brand new.


----------



## Deadpool_25

There are a bunch listed on Reverb right now. Couple used (one comes with cab and is local pickup only), and a few used.

At least 1 in Utah (seems like they have multiple ads)
2 in New York
6 (?!) at musicstorelive website

Like @Womb raider said, maybe the big box stores are getting delays, but they're shipping to smaller dealers who don't have the browser/preorder traffic?


----------



## Andrew Lloyd Webber

Deadpool_25 said:


> maybe the big box stores are getting delays, but they're shipping to smaller dealers who don't have the browser/preorder traffic?



Are we talking about the same company that told dealers to fly the “Made in USA” flag at the same time they were surprising stores with “Product of China”-stamped boxes and crates? Because that was my experience doing business with Peavey. Granted, it was a reasonable alternative to ESP telling dealers throughout California to drive to Hollywood if they wanted to pick up the stock of LTDs they’d ordered.

Point being, I don’t see any company depriving their large accounts of available product just because it rightfully belongs to a waiting smaller account.


----------



## MegaTones

I haven't been here in a while, but it's hilarious that people are STILL making excuses for this fucking amp. Replace Peavey with Kiesel and the company is boycotted, but cause your boy Bulb is associated, lets just give them 2 years to sort out production issues.

Anyone who buys this amp after reading this thread or seeing the shit that's gone on is a fool tbh.

I was really interested in this amp since the cleans on my 6505 are lackluster, switching sucks, I love the idea of the pedal power outlets in the amp, etc, but this is a failed experiment in my eyes, and I'll just stick with the 6505. Ridiculous.


----------



## NateFalcon

These are all James Brown designed circuits...the triple X was a George Lynch amp and he happened to jump ship to Randall in the middle...Satriani also had input on the XXX prior to developing the JSX. It really started with VTM, Classic 30/50 and Butcher, then the Ultra (+), then 5150 etc...the tone stacks are pretty similar, bar the active EQ on the XXX/3120/JSX/XXX2...pretty apples to apples


----------



## NateFalcon

Max Cavalera endorsed the 3120 as well


----------



## NateFalcon

Here’s the man himself (left) with Satriani while developing the XXX...James Brown now owns ‘Amptweaker’ -awesome products btw...this guy really is one of The Godfathers of high gain amp circuits


----------



## Seabeast2000

NateFalcon said:


> View attachment 60004
> Here’s the man himself (left) with Satriani while developing the XXX...James Brown now owns ‘Amptweaker’ -awesome products btw...this guy really is one of The Godfathers of high gain amp circuits


How did Joe get in there without a badge?


----------



## NateFalcon

He’s why you need a pass lol


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

NateFalcon said:


> These are all James Brown designed circuits...the triple X was a George Lynch amp and he happened to jump ship to Randall in the middle...Satriani also had input on the XXX prior to developing the JSX. It really started with VTX, and Butcher, then the Ultra (+), then 5150 etc...the tone stacks are pretty similar, bar the active EQ on the XXX/3120/JSX/XXX2...pretty apples to apples



I thought it started with the Triumph?


----------



## NateFalcon

Could be...Peavey VTM is the first “high gain” James Brown amp in ‘86 IIRC...he had his hands on a lot of shit tho, I know he designed the Delta Blues...anything before ‘86 couldn’t have been him -that’s when he started collaborating with Hartley Peavey


----------



## NateFalcon

VTM 60/120 was Peaveys’ answer to the JCM-800 but with higher gain and cool dip switches...still an awesome metal amp even today


----------



## beavis2306

MegaTones said:


> I haven't been here in a while



I don't mind if you don't come back


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

NateFalcon said:


> These are all James Brown designed circuits...the triple X was a George Lynch amp and he happened to jump ship to Randall in the middle...Satriani also had input on the XXX prior to developing the JSX. It really started with VTM, Classic 30/50 and Butcher, then the Ultra (+), then 5150 etc...the tone stacks are pretty similar, bar the active EQ on the XXX/3120/JSX/XXX2...pretty apples to apples


From what I understand, Lynch left because Peavey took too long to get it to market.


----------



## NateFalcon

Peavey taking too long to get a new product out??...I don’t believe it lol


----------



## NateFalcon

George’s claim was that he wasn’t getting much out of the deal other than free amps...Randall was on the rise at the time and offered him more money...supposedly that’s the story


----------



## Vyn

Spaced Out Ace said:


> From what I understand, *Lynch left because Peavey took too long to get it to market*.



...I'm torn between laughing and crying right now lol.


----------



## Deadpool_25

Andrew Lloyd Webber said:


> Point being, I don’t see any company depriving their large accounts of available product just because it rightfully belongs to a waiting smaller account.



Not saying that. Saying the big stores are having delays getting _more_, while the small stores have them sitting there since they have so much less traffic.

And if Reverb search results are accurate there are at least 15 available new and 2 used. So if someone is bitching about them not being available, I have to wonder wtf they’re talking about. Oh wait, let me guess...they just don’t want to pay full price.


----------



## Deadpool_25

MegaTones said:


> I haven't been here in a while, but it's hilarious that people are STILL making excuses for this fucking amp. Replace Peavey with Kiesel and the company is boycotted, but cause your boy Bulb is associated, lets just give them 2 years to sort out production issues.
> 
> Anyone who buys this amp after reading this thread or seeing the shit that's gone on is a fool tbh.
> 
> I was really interested in this amp since the cleans on my 6505 are lackluster, switching sucks, I love the idea of the pedal power outlets in the amp, etc, but this is a failed experiment in my eyes, and I'll just stick with the 6505. Ridiculous.



Yeah? What’s wrong with the amp exactly?


----------



## Vyn

Deadpool_25 said:


> And if Reverb search results are accurate there are at least 15 available new and 2 used. So if someone is bitching about them not being available, I have to wonder wtf they’re talking about. Oh wait, let me guess...they just don’t want to pay full price.



I'm more than happy to pay full price and I will end up getting one if/when they become available in my country. I literally am a living version of the "SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY" meme right now, only that I'm not sure Australia is even going to be allocated any of this year's run as demand in the US alone is nuts.


----------



## beavis2306

Vyn said:


> I'm more than happy to pay full price and I will end up getting one if/when they become available in my country. I literally am a living version of the "SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY" meme right now, only that I'm not sure Australia is even going to be allocated any of this year's run as demand in the US alone is nuts.



Same


----------



## Deadpool_25

@Vyn and @beavis2306 

Yeah that sucks. I guess having any of those places ship it overseas is cost prohibitive. I hear it’s really bad getting stuff shipped to Australia.

The Peavey rep that posted here implied that there were some going overseas. Wonder where to.


----------



## Vyn

Deadpool_25 said:


> @Vyn and @beavis2306
> 
> Yeah that sucks. I guess having any of those places ship it overseas is cost prohibitive. I hear it’s really bad getting stuff shipped to Australia.
> 
> The Peavey rep that posted here implied that there were some going overseas. Wonder where to.



It's a bitch shipping stuff here from those places two-fold:

1 - Actual cost is dumb, then we have to pay importation tax and general sales tax on top
2 - A lot of manufacturers have regional deals where the stores can't ship outside of their region (US).

On top of that depending on the amplifier they can be solely 120V 60Hz (especially American manufacturers). We use 220-240V at 50Hz here in Australia (same as a UK). Some amps have dual power supplies can can be switched between the two but trying to find that information out can be a pain. Can get a step-down transformer or a power conditioner but they end up being dumb money and before you know it you've blown $6k-$7k on an amp advertised in your region for $3.6k.


----------



## Deadpool_25

@Vyn Yeah fuck that. @pvampmgr, get a few of these shipped out to Australia, pronto!


----------



## Andrew Lloyd Webber

Deadpool_25 said:


> Yeah? What’s wrong with the amp exactly?



I think what happened is he read the thread.


----------



## Deadpool_25

Andrew Lloyd Webber said:


> I think what happened is he read the thread.



Irrelevant


----------



## NateFalcon

People also tend to think of Peaveys as cheap amps and when they finally tack on a competitive price point comparative to say a Mesa, people tend to think “it’s not worth it” not realizing Peaveys have always been well made USA amps...it’s just because it’s not a $900 6505 and the features have brought the price to a competitive level with other high quality smps out there that they’re now kinda offput by expecting Peavey to be “cheap”...15-25 yrs later XXX’s and 5150’s still crush and I’ve had VERY FEW problems with the 10+ Peaveys I’ve had over the years. Peavey Ultra series owners were just spoiled and never knew it (some did)...


----------



## prlgmnr

NateFalcon said:


> people tend to think “it’s not worth it” not realizing Peaveys have always been well made USA amps



Made in USA (Made in USA sticker made and applied in China)


----------



## Edika

I'd say for the features the Incective boasts and with a good clean channel it is still more competitively priced than most first world country build amps. The Marshal JVM series is cheaper but I don't know if these are made in the UK and ENGL's, while cheaper in EU, still will be in the ballpark price of the Invective.

Peavey's in EU where well priced in regards to anything else. But with salaries being less and VAT being what it is they still weren't as easily attainable as in the US. Due to the crappy clean channel they are not that versatile so if your income is limited and you have to choose one amp then the Peavey 6505/5150, even though better priced than others, still were not the ideal choice.


----------



## Cynicanal

The Invective is the price of a Dual Recto despite not having anywhere near the features (no, a built-in gate and boost are nothing like the feature set, and resulting complexity in wiring, that a Recto has), and there's never been a Peavey made that's got a build quality anything like Mesa. That's not "competitively priced".


----------



## cwhitey2

Cynicanal said:


> The Invective is the price of a Dual Recto despite not having anywhere near the features (no, a built-in gate and boost are nothing like the feature set, and resulting complexity in wiring, that a Recto has), and there's never been a Peavey made that's got a build quality anything like Mesa. That's not "competitively priced".


Totally agree.

Mesa's are in a completely different ballpark.


----------



## lurè

I think the price is right considering all the feaures.
At least in EU it sits in the same price range of most Engl amps.


----------



## Deadpool_25

Cynicanal said:


> The Invective is the price of a Dual Recto despite not having anywhere near the features (no, a built-in gate and boost are nothing like the feature set, and resulting complexity in wiring, that a Recto has), and there's never been a Peavey made that's got a build quality anything like Mesa. That's not "competitively priced".



I have owned both and disagree.

Edit: In fairness, I have not owned the newest revision of the DR.

Edit2: to clarify, I think both amps have amazing feature sets. Their feature sets are a bit different though so it depends on the person which features are more desirable. And the DR is a beast of an amp. If I hadn’t gotten the Invective I would have gotten a new multi-watt DR, blacked out, and probably would’ve been just as happy.


----------



## NateFalcon

prlgmnr said:


> Made in USA (Made in USA sticker made and applied in China)


Maybe as of now,as with most electrical products but Peaveys prior to ROHS was all USA made, bar a few internal components. I never got the feeling they were “lying” about it...


----------



## prlgmnr

NateFalcon said:


> Maybe as of now,as with most electrical products but Peaveys prior to ROHS was all USA made, bar a few internal components. I never got the feeling they were “lying” about it...


Don't worry it was just a jest.


----------



## NateFalcon

Cynicanal said:


> The Invective is the price of a Dual Recto despite not having anywhere near the features (no, a built-in gate and boost are nothing like the feature set, and resulting complexity in wiring, that a Recto has), and there's never been a Peavey made that's got a build quality anything like Mesa. That's not "competitively priced".


Really?...here we go, exactly my point. Then tell me why almost all of my (3)Recto’s or (4)Marks have had tube/cap failures and OT’s burn out...? I’m not bashing Mesa, nor trying to start another Peavey vs. Mesa debate (my bad) because I have a Mark IV rackmount that I love, but don’t tell me Mesa are better amps...because they’re not. More “robust” components, or complicated wiring isn’t better if it doesn’t work IMO


----------



## Cynicanal

Do you have a shorted speaker cable or something? I dunno, the occasional tube failure is to be expected of course, and all amps need cap jobs eventually, but repeated OT failures on Mesas is pretty unheard of.


----------



## NateFalcon

No...I’ve had combinations of these problems...premature tube burnout, smoked caps, overheated OT’s...I’ve been playing over 25 yrs swapping mountains of gear so one shorted cable is not the culprit...Mesa’s have been high maintenance IME. And yeah, I’ve had tubes go down on Peaveys as well...just not nearly on the same level. Proof is in the pudding to me.


----------



## Seabeast2000




----------



## lurè

Maybe the amp is assembled in USA and all the parts are made in China.
I honestly don't know and I wouldn't even care.
As long as the amp turns on, sounds good and doesn't fail me after 1 month, for me it's enough.


----------



## FitRocker33

NateFalcon said:


> I’m not bashing Mesa, nor trying to start another Peavey vs. Mesa debate (my bad) because I have a Mark IV rackmount that I love, b



Lol this sounded like the guitar equivalent of “ dude I am sooo not racist. I have a friend who’s black!”


----------



## NateFalcon

Whatever that means...?...I’ve owned more than one Mesa and like them too...Claiming other amps are superior to Peavey as if it’s steeped in fact is just not true.


----------



## crankyrayhanky

NateFalcon said:


> Really?...here we go, exactly my point. Then *tell me why almost all of my (3)Recto’s or (4)Marks have had tube/cap failures and OT’s burn out.*..? I’m not bashing Mesa, nor trying to start another Peavey vs. Mesa debate (my bad) because I have a Mark IV rackmount that I love, but don’t tell me Mesa are better amps...because they’re not. More “robust” components, or complicated wiring isn’t better if it doesn’t work IMO


Accidental OHM mismatch?


----------



## NateFalcon

Lol...uh...no


----------



## NateFalcon

My point really was that people still view Peavey as something you buy when you can’t afford a “better” amp...which is nonsense


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

FitRocker33 said:


> Lol this sounded like the guitar equivalent of “ dude I am sooo not racist. I have a friend who’s black!”


No POC friends? RACIST!
Some POC friends? STILL RACIST!


----------



## Lethalharmonic

I was pumped when I got my Invective and was admiring it then spun it around and seen that "Designed in USA Made in China" sticker smack dab on the back of the Chassis! luckily Peavey was straight up with me, I never got a clear answer & Misha was very prompt about getting to the bottom of it & getting some pictures of Invectives rolling down the line at the Meridian Plant!

Sorry for the poor punctuation & haters!


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Lethalharmonic said:


> I was pumped when I got my Invective and was admiring it then spun it around and seen that "Designed in USA Made in China" sticker smack dab on the back of the Chassis! luckily Peavey was straight up with me, I never got a clear answer & Misha was very prompt about getting to the bottom of it & getting some pictures of Invectives rolling down the line at the Meridian Plant!
> 
> Sorry for the poor punctuation & haters!


Yeah, Misha still hasn't come through with the photos he promised regarding where the amp is made.


----------



## mnemonic

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Yeah, Misha still hasn't come through with the photos he promised regarding where the amp is made.



I’m pretty sure we all forgot about that already


----------



## NateFalcon

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Yeah, Misha still hasn't come through with the photos he promised regarding where the amp is made.


I’ll do you the favor...


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

mnemonic said:


> I’m pretty sure we all forgot about that already


Nah.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

NateFalcon said:


> View attachment 60157
> 
> 
> I’ll do you the favor...


#MadeInAmerica


----------



## NateFalcon

#made in Merikai


----------



## Lethalharmonic

GAWLD DARN AMP BET BE MADE IN UH MERICA!!! lmao I'm always drawn to that clown at NAMM demonstrating the amp with everyone plugged in DI sounding like fizzy Sh*t, Sweating his ass off looking like hes been up for days. saying ugh YUP YULP its made in AMERICA amps made in AMERICA (soon as we run 5 down the line we are closin' down the Meridian plant again, only temp. workers this time Hartley!!! Pound UP)


----------



## Lethalharmonic

*MISHA MANSOOR Talks Peavey Invective 120 Amp at NAMM 2018 | GEAR GODS*

*2:53*

*buh Duh.. (stutter) I have an older block letter!*

*I gladly returned my Invective & picked up a Block letter for $400 in Kansas LOVE IT!!! thanks Misha*


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Lethalharmonic said:


> *MISHA MANSOOR Talks Peavey Invective 120 Amp at NAMM 2018 | GEAR GODS*
> 
> *2:53*
> 
> *buh Duh.. (stutter) I have an older block letter!*
> 
> *I gladly returned my Invective & picked up a Block letter for $400 in Kansas LOVE IT!!! thanks Misha*


sadtrombone.wav


----------



## bulb

Lethalharmonic said:


> *MISHA MANSOOR Talks Peavey Invective 120 Amp at NAMM 2018 | GEAR GODS*
> 
> *2:53*
> 
> *buh Duh.. (stutter) I have an older block letter!*
> 
> *I gladly returned my Invective & picked up a Block letter for $400 in Kansas LOVE IT!!! thanks Misha*


You are welcome!


----------



## Deadpool_25

NateFalcon said:


> View attachment 60157
> 
> 
> I’ll do you the favor...



Lol! Well played, sir. 

@Lethalharmonic $400?? Hell of a deal! Congrats!


----------



## katsumura78

Mine shipped today so I’m not sure where this “can’t find them anywhere” mentality is coming from. Go through Sweetwater if you really want one. Reverbs got a few as well.


----------



## Deadpool_25

On the Invective:

John Fields, who designed the amp, said there is a presence mod and basically said that, yes the Invective is brighter than the block letter. So it wasn’t my imagination (I knew that...it’s obvious when they’re at similar settings).


----------



## NateFalcon

Yeah...4 Hundo for a block letter...


----------



## buriedoutback

NateFalcon said:


> Yeah...4 Hundo for a block letter...


I got my 5150 Sig last year for $400 CAD. I'm sticking with it


----------



## bulb

buriedoutback said:


> I got my 5150 Sig last year for $400 CAD. I'm sticking with it


Damn that's an incredible price! Congrats!


----------



## A-Branger

wrong post..... sorry


----------



## NateFalcon

A-Branger said:


> wrong post


“Just have fun with it!”


----------



## bulb

NateFalcon said:


> “Just have fun with it!”


Just have fun with it!


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Just fun it with have!


----------



## lurè

just have a fan with it


----------



## A-Branger

NateFalcon said:


> “Just have fun with it!”


naaahh I just clicked the tread and took me to the last seen post and wanted to repply to a coment, then I realized the post was like 4 pages ago, so meh not longer relevant


----------



## Deadpool_25

Holy shit, shows in stock on both SW and GC. Did Peavey work out their supply chain issues?


----------



## NateFalcon

...now watch people not buy them after talking shit about not being able to get one...


----------



## FitRocker33

Deadpool_25 said:


> Holy shit, shows in stock on both SW and GC. Did Peavey work out their supply chain issues?



Yep they finally chartered a boat big enough to hold all the amps to ship em over from China


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

NateFalcon said:


> ...now watch people not buy them after talking shit about not being able to get one...


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

FitRocker33 said:


> Yep they finally chartered a boat big enough to hold all the amps to ship em over from China


And yet we still wait... waiit... like a White Lion song for the Meridian plant photos proving they are indeed made in the USA.


----------



## katsumura78

Mine came in today. Sticker on the back says “ Assembled in the USA “ so take that for what it is. Either way the build quality is solid and the damn amp is pretty heavy. Can’t wait to play it tomorrow.


----------



## Andrew Lloyd Webber

katsumura78 said:


> Sticker on the back says “Assembled in the USA “



With the address of a chinese restaurant.


----------



## katsumura78

Andrew Lloyd Webber said:


> With the address of a chinese restaurant.



If they make a solid amp then honestly who gives a shit? Not like anyone is forcing you to buy it lol. I’m sure you’ve never bought a single product with Chinese made parts in it


----------



## Meeotch

NateFalcon said:


> ...now watch people not buy them after talking shit about not being able to get one...



I had one on order for a while, and finally just bought something else. Hype can be powerful, and I was willing for many moons. I'm not butthurt about Peavey like some in this forum, but just realistic. They lost my sale, and if I buy one in the future it will be second hand. 

From the few reviews I've heard, it has potential. I really hope it kicks ass.


----------



## katsumura78

Meeotch said:


> I had one on order for a while, and finally just bought something else. Hype can be powerful, and I was willing for many moons. I'm not butthurt about Peavey like some in this forum, but just realistic. They lost my sale, and if I buy one in the future it will be second hand.
> 
> From the few reviews I've heard, it has potential. I really hope it kicks ass.



I don’t blame ya man. If I had something on preorder that kept getting pushed back I would’ve said screw it. I preordered through Sweetwater and was told 3 weeks till the next batch. Only took 2 so I guess I got lucky. I’ll know tomorrow if it lives up to the hype which I have a feeling it will.


----------



## Deadpool_25

Lol. Here we go again.


----------



## katsumura78

Deadpool_25 said:


> Lol. Here we go again.



Lol alright I’ll play nice. Either way I’m psyched Peavey teamed up with Misha to get this thing to market. Honestly what amp has everything the invective has?! My JP-2C is nasty but no gate, no power outputs for pedals, no midi controller, no built in boosts. People hating for no reason. So what’s the count at for invective owners now? 15-16?


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

katsumura78 said:


> Lol alright I’ll play nice. Either way I’m psyched Peavey teamed up with Misha to get this thing to market. Honestly what amp has everything the invective has?! My JP-2C is nasty but no gate, no power outputs for pedals, no midi controller, no built in boosts. People hating for no reason. So what’s the count at for invective owners now? 15-16?


Just have power outlets with it!


----------



## StevenC

katsumura78 said:


> Lol alright I’ll play nice. Either way I’m psyched Peavey teamed up with Misha to get this thing to market. Honestly what amp has everything the invective has?! My JP-2C is nasty but no gate, no power outputs for pedals, no midi controller, no built in boosts. People hating for no reason. So what’s the count at for invective owners now? 15-16?


The Satriani Marshall has 4 gates, MIDI and the modes basically act as a boost. And at least in the UK I can buy a couple of great power supplies for the difference in price.


----------



## Deadpool_25

I’ve heard that JS JVM is really good.


----------



## Seabeast2000

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Just have power outlets with it!


I'm holding out for a K-cup version.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

The906 said:


> I'm holding out for a K-cup version.


You might need a backbrace if she has K cups, bro.



Deadpool_25 said:


> I’ve heard that JS JVM is really good.


Does it suffer from the cheap flexible knobs like the regular JVM does?


----------



## Andrew Lloyd Webber

katsumura78 said:


> If they make a solid amp then honestly who gives a shit? Not like anyone is forcing you to buy it lol. I’m sure you’ve never bought a single product with Chinese made parts in it



You’re right. I am ashamed.


----------



## narad

katsumura78 said:


> Lol alright I’ll play nice. Either way I’m psyched Peavey teamed up with Misha to get this thing to market. Honestly what amp has everything the invective has?! My JP-2C is nasty but no gate, no power outputs for pedals, no midi controller, no built in boosts. People hating for no reason. So what’s the count at for invective owners now? 15-16?



Trying to compare the Invective to the JP-2C is like an instant fail. The invective doesn't have two band EQs or shred mode or pull gain or presences. Honestly what amp has everything the JP-2C has!?


----------



## katsumura78

narad said:


> Trying to compare the Invective to the JP-2C is like an instant fail. The invective doesn't have two band EQs or shred mode or pull gain or presences. Honestly what amp has everything the JP-2C has!?




The Mark series amps pretty much need those EQ’s or you’re left with little room to tweak. Shred mode is so noisy you need a gate and the reverb on the JP is useless seeing as it’s before the effects loop in the circuit. Both amps are sick and each has something over the other, hell its why I own both. The price difference is worth mentioning too.


----------



## narad

katsumura78 said:


> The Mark series amps pretty much need those EQ’s or you’re left with little room to tweak. Shred mode is so noisy you need a gate and the reverb on the JP is useless seeing as it’s before the effects loop in the circuit. Both amps are sick and each has something over the other, hell its why I own both. The price difference is worth mentioning too.



To take this further then... Honestly what amp has everything the Engl SE has!? Modern/classic gain? Depth boost? Mega-Low Punch? Gate? Gain boost? High gain? Mid edge? Contour Active?

There's just no point of comparison. They're different things. The invective doesn't offer more than other top-of-the-line amps, it's just more vs. other Peavey things. The only amps where the invective features are an outright win vs. a categorical difference is when it comes to 5150s -- amps that share the same basic circuit DNA but are noisy amps with subpar cleans and no modern switching. 

Maybe I'm being nitpicky but you did ask the question.


----------



## StevenC

Come to think of it, I can't think of an amp that has everything a VH4S has.


----------



## lurè

But are these features practically usabile?
Are you going to turn back and press that bottom boost in your engl while playing?
Or press the middle boost and make you sound so dark that you become unlistenable?
Imho just putting 2 power suppliers for pedals on the back of the amp is better idea then 5 nonsense switches.


----------



## katsumura78

narad said:


> To take this further then... Honestly what amp has everything the Engl SE has!? Modern/classic gain? Depth boost? Mega-Low Punch? Gate? Gain boost? High gain? Mid edge? Contour Active?
> 
> There's just no point of comparison. They're different things. The invective doesn't offer more than other top-of-the-line amps, it's just more vs. other Peavey things. The only amps where the invective features are an outright win vs. a categorical difference is when it comes to 5150s -- amps that share the same basic circuit DNA but are noisy amps with subpar cleans and no modern switching.
> 
> Maybe I'm being nitpicky but you did ask the question.



Nah bro you’re right lol. Engl SE is a monster and H&K has some 6 channel beast right? There’s an amp out there for everyone now.


----------



## narad

lurè said:


> But are these features practically usabile?
> Are you going to turn back and press that bottom boost in your engl while playing?
> Or press the middle boost and make you sound so dark that you become unlistenable?



Then I would just engage the bright and ultra-bright switches 



lurè said:


> Imho just putting 2 power suppliers for pedals on the back of the amp is better idea then 5 nonsense switches.



I guess that's going to depend on the person. Don't get me wrong -- I think the pedal power plugs is like a smart thing to include since it probably isn't much hassle to implement that feature and it's a nice convenience. But when I buy an amp, I buy it based on sound features, not something that is otherwise solved with a <$10 adapter.


----------



## NateFalcon

There’s so many boosts and gate preferences out there that boxing myself in to a “built in” gate/boost actually turns me off...and I honestly don’t want to power up my pedal board through the power supply in my head (crossover frequency, circuit stuffing, more to go wrong)...even FX loops are getting to be used as a marketing gimmick and all these “features” still pale in complexity to the wet/dry/wet and rack setups of the late 80’s and 90’s...I say a XXX, 3120 or JSX can be made with a couple pedals to do everything an Invective can do on a 1/4 of the price lol...and then some- more gain and active EQ on the XXX/3120. Amps hit a ceiling decades ago...it’s all just sprinkles and toppings now


----------



## Deadpool_25

I think it’s absolutely true that most of the extra features on the Invective could be replicated fairly cheaply with outboard gear. A noise gate and OD for channels 2/3 are easy. Ads your choice of gain pedal for channel 1 and you’re actually ahead a little bit (assuming you like that gain pedal better than the built in drive in Channel 1, which you probably will). A power supply is obviously an easy thing.

The Invective definitely does not have the onboard tonal flexibility of a lot of other amps that have various fat/bright/contour/tight/raw/etc. switches.

For ME, I want three channels: an awesome clean, a Marshallish crunch, and a 5150ish high gain. The Invective hits the first and last of those out of the ballpark. Marshallish crunch...ehhh. Solid double I guess. It can get close enough for me. But the clean’s ability to take pedals means that I can definitely get what I need.

The amps I’ve tried with tons of options (i.e. Mark V 90W and a couple others) I had to hunt for tones I really liked and once I found them, I’d just use those two or three sounds.

The additional loop and the cool footswitch functionality are fucking great though IMO. Love those two features. Not all people will though. The extra features suit ME well.

It’s so personal. People are going to love different amps and there’s nothing wrong with that. It’s awesome that there are so many great amps to choose from. 

I know you guys think I defend the amp a lot, but only against things that are misrepresentations, opinions stated as facts, or statements are flat out wrong. I assume that people will come to this thread to research whether the amp might be worth trying, and falsehoods, whether positive or negative, aren’t helpful.

If you have one and love it, enjoy. If you tried one and didn’t love it, cool. In either case, post up your honest thoughts and the thread can be beneficial.

(Assuming it’s not already too far off the rails lol)


----------



## NateFalcon

I wasn’t trying to imply anything negative about the Invective...it is a nice amp and the features are great ideas. At that price point the features just need to be considered by the people who actually need/use them...for some of us, the world got along just fine before without them


----------



## Deadpool_25

NateFalcon said:


> I wasn’t trying to imply anything negative about the Invective...it is a nice amp and the features are great ideas. At that price point the features just need to be considered by the people who actually need/use them...for some of us, the world got along just fine before without them



Definitely man. My post was just a comment that in general a lot of the excellent amps are just different so certain ones will be better or worse totally depending on the user.


----------



## NateFalcon

And honestly I do like the look...with the white face panel it kinda looks like a cross between a 5153 and a Diezel


----------



## lurè

My point is that if you have to add features to an amp, make them simple and smart.

An amp should sound decently good with every knob at 12 o'clock and not with a combination of engaged/disengaged 15 switches.

Don't kow about the Invective but I doubt that the OD on Ch 3 just screws up your tone so much that you're forced to never use it (or, vice versa, that it has to be always on because ch 3 sucks) .

Some will prefer their OD/TS and it's totally fine, but others may find that it can just do the trick.

Same story for the noise gate: you have one and, assuming it's working, maybe can save you from buying a separate pedal.

Then I doubt people will buy the Invective to power their delay pedals but I think it's a cool feature and certainly has its uses.


----------



## narad

lurè said:


> My point is that if you have to add features to an amp, make them simple and smart.
> 
> An amp should sound decently good with every knob at 12 o'clock and not with a combination of engaged/disengaged 15 switches.



On amps that have lots of switches, you usually don't need the switches to get a good sound. That's kind of missing the point.


----------



## Shoeless_jose

Has there been any like actual good in depth video reviews of the thing??

I know Keith Merrow used one in a video but it was all in the mix from what I recall... would love for someone to sit down with the thing and go through it all hear the different clean and crunch tones available and other such things.


----------



## Deadpool_25

Dineley said:


> Has there been any like actual good in depth video reviews of the thing??
> 
> I know Keith Merrow used one in a video but it was all in the mix from what I recall... would love for someone to sit down with the thing and go through it all hear the different clean and crunch tones available and other such things.



Not sure if it’s what you’re looking for, but the last few minutes of Merrow’s video is a play through. Starts at about 5:35 I think?


----------



## Shoeless_jose

Deadpool_25 said:


> Not sure if it’s what you’re looking for, but the last few minutes of Merrow’s video is a play through. Starts at about 5:35 I think?



Ill check it out. I didnt watch whole video as i was at work


----------



## Deadpool_25

Dineley said:


> Ill check it out. I didnt watch whole video as i was at work



I watched that section again. It may not be the type of demo you are wondering about.


----------



## chapperbone

So.... just got the invective after 6 months from the initial purchase..... that was a nightmare. I just tried it last night with my band. I had my trusty 5150 2 120 watt head so I could AB it. Tones are great, but I have to dime it at 8 post and 9 master to get it up to the 5150 2 at 5 post and 3.5 master. My drummer is a beast so I require a lot of volume. The invective is a 120 watt but it feels like a 60 watt. I thought the 60 watt half function was engaged, after switching between the full and half, I found out that was not the case. Concerned on the volume output.


----------



## KailM

chapperbone said:


> So.... just got the invective after 6 months from the initial purchase..... that was a nightmare. I just tried it last night with my band. I had my trusty 5150 2 120 watt head so I could AB it. Tones are great, but I have to dime it at 8 post and 9 master to get it up to the 5150 2 at 5 post and 3.5 master. My drummer is a beast so I require a lot of volume. The invective is a 120 watt but it feels like a 60 watt. I thought the 60 watt half function was engaged, after switching between the full and half, I found out that was not the case. Concerned on the volume output.



Deadpool will probably be of better help to you, but if you scroll back through this thread someone posted something about the Invective not running at full volume until you switch something or other on or off -- can't remember, haha. It'll do the full 120 watt volume thing though, rest assured.

I'm confused about your 5150 II's "master" volume knob though. None of the 5150s/6505s I've played or owned ever had a master volume. Just pre (gain) and post (volume).


----------



## chapperbone

KailM said:


> Deadpool will probably be of better help to you, but if you scroll back through this thread someone posted something about the Invective not running at full volume until you switch something or other on or off -- can't remember, haha. It'll do the full 120 watt volume thing though, rest assured.
> 
> I'm confused about your 5150 II's "master" volume knob though. None of the 5150s/6505s I've played or owned ever had a master volume. Just pre (gain) and post (volume).



Yes, no master. Pre and post gain is what I meant.


----------



## Deadpool_25

chapperbone said:


> So.... just got the invective after 6 months from the initial purchase..... that was a nightmare. I just tried it last night with my band. I had my trusty 5150 2 120 watt head so I could AB it. Tones are great, but I have to dime it at 8 post and 9 master to get it up to the 5150 2 at 5 post and 3.5 master. My drummer is a beast so I require a lot of volume. The invective is a 120 watt but it feels like a 60 watt. I thought the 60 watt half function was engaged, after switching between the full and half, I found out that was not the case. Concerned on the volume output.



Turn on the master boost (and turn up the knob on the back).

Edit: 
WARNING: turn the master volume on the front all the way down first then turn it up after lol


----------



## bulb

FYI, on the 5150/6505 my issue was that you got pretty much max volume at 3/4 and then from there you weren't getting more, definitely not anything useful, so we chose to create a taper so that not only could you more finely set the volume, but it would be easier to get bedroom volumes. Just crank the channel volume, and adjust the master to taste for live use. If you need more, you can always use the master boost on the back of the amp.


----------



## katsumura78

Been playing mine at the house for the last week. Badass amp. I was on the fence about buying one but it’s worth it. Still trying to figure it out when it comes to volume settings. Crank the post to 7 and run the master low for bedroom levels? I’ll be playing it live soon enough so I can’t wait to really crank it.


----------



## NateFalcon

Buying a 120 watt amp for bedroom level playing is like buying a monster truck and then trying to make it street legal...if it’ll do it, great...if not, it’s the wrong tool for the wrong job anyway...next they’re arguing about what attenuator to get, or ask weird questions about how they can make a 100-120 watt amp perform flawlessly at bedroom levels. “Does it sound good at bedroom volume?” such a common knee-jerk question ...well...that’s not what it’s for...and ‘Swiss army knife” amps always seem to sacrifice either on the stage, or while the newborn is sleeping. Get a small watt combo amp for home jamming and leave the half stack at the jam space


----------



## Werecow

NateFalcon said:


> Buying a 120 watt amp for bedroom level playing is like buying a monster truck and then trying to make it street legal...if it’ll do it, great...if not, it’s the wrong tool for the wrong job anyway...next they’re arguing about what attenuator to get, or ask weird questions about how they can make a 100-120 watt amp perform flawlessly at bedroom levels. “Does it sound good at bedroom volume?” such a common knee-jerk question ...well...that’s not what it’s for...and ‘Swiss army knife” amps always seem to sacrifice either on the stage, or while the newborn is sleeping. Get a small watt combo amp for home jamming and leave the half stack at the jam space



I use all my big amps at home, including late night use, whisper quiet. Everything else smaller sounds shit in comparison even at those volumes, so why shouldn't i use them?


----------



## NateFalcon

I’m with you...not every big amp sounds good at low volume 
-I use my XXX and 3120’s in my living room...I just don’t expect them to be ‘living room’ amps...


----------



## narad

NateFalcon said:


> Buying a 120 watt amp for bedroom level playing is like buying a monster truck and then trying to make it street legal...if it’ll do it, great...if not, it’s the wrong tool for the wrong job anyway...next they’re arguing about what attenuator to get, or ask weird questions about how they can make a 100-120 watt amp perform flawlessly at bedroom levels. “Does it sound good at bedroom volume?” such a common knee-jerk question ...well...that’s not what it’s for...and ‘Swiss army knife” amps always seem to sacrifice either on the stage, or while the newborn is sleeping. Get a small watt combo amp for home jamming and leave the half stack at the jam space



A lot of small watt combos use different tube types. The last thing I want is a high gain amp with pushed EL86s honestly -- I'd rather have the 100W low master than a pushed lunch box amp. Meanwhile that low watt amp will have trouble outside of the bedroom. An amp for each domain is an expensive proposition (if you care about both).

I mean, a load box is like a $400 thing these days, so why not? Lots of great impulses. There's never been a better time to use a 100W+ amp in the bedroom. I admit, how does it sound at bedroom volume is an unusual-sounding question, but I think it's clear it comes out of practicality and other constraints.


----------



## NateFalcon

Again, I totally agree, mine sound GREAT at low volumes...it’s just funny to think a big watt amp will be the perfect choice for low volume jamming. You don’t always get lucky lol


----------



## Werecow

NateFalcon said:


> Again, I totally agree, mine sound GREAT at low volumes...it’s just funny to think a big watt amp will be the perfect choice for low volume jamming. You don’t always get lucky lol



No need to be lucky, you just ask the question "does it sound good at bedroom level?" that common knee-jerk question you referenced above 

For me a big watt amp is literally the perfect bedroom amp, as i get the best pre-amp sections there are. I just have a cab at home and a cab at practice and just simply move the head around. Really easy and i get the best sound possible as well.


----------



## NateFalcon

Almost ALL Peaveys sound good at low volumes...it’s a tired question


----------



## bulb

NateFalcon said:


> Almost ALL Peaveys sound good at low volumes...it’s a tired question


Actually it's not, with the 5150/6505 if you turn the volume down all the way it goes into this super dark sound, as if all the high end is being attenuated, and then you have to be super careful when setting the volume to get it to get past that effect but not get loud. 
This was something I made sure wouldn't happen with the Invective.

So yes with the Invective you can get it to sound good at all volumes.

Katsumura, for bedroom levels experiment with different combos of channel and master. More channel to master gets you richer mids, the opposite gets you more scooped and more air. I generally prefer the former setting for jamming, so I will do Channel volume at 7-8 and master to taste.


----------



## KailM

NateFalcon said:


> Buying a 120 watt amp for bedroom level playing is like buying a monster truck and then trying to make it street legal...if it’ll do it, great...if not, it’s the wrong tool for the wrong job anyway...next they’re arguing about what attenuator to get, or ask weird questions about how they can make a 100-120 watt amp perform flawlessly at bedroom levels. “Does it sound good at bedroom volume?” such a common knee-jerk question ...well...that’s not what it’s for...and ‘Swiss army knife” amps always seem to sacrifice either on the stage, or while the newborn is sleeping. Get a small watt combo amp for home jamming and leave the half stack at the jam space



I don't need an attenuator for my 120 watt 6505 because it has a perfectly good one called "post gain." No issues whatsoever getting an awesome low-volume tone. That "dark" spot Bulb was talking about is definitely there but there is a point where you tweak the volume slightly beyond that and you get the full tone, and it's not very loud. I love running a big rig at home, and after owning one EL-84 based mini amp and selling it, I don't see myself ever going back.


----------



## NateFalcon

Over the years I’ve owned 3-5150’s, 1-5150 II, 2-XXX’s, 2-3120’s, an Ultra+ and a JSX...they’re pretty much apples to apples other than slight tonal differences and the XXX/3120’s having active EQ...ALL sound pretty good at low volume, and at the same time I’ve never had ‘volume complaints’...sure none of my Peaveys are quite as loud as my Mark IV, but I’d like to crank up an Invective and compare it to another Peavey or two...


----------



## USMarine75

I guess the 15-20 different Peavey/EVH amps I've had over the years are different that the one you guys got.... lol


----------



## MASS DEFECT

The secret to getting a 6505/6505+ to sound good at bedroom volume is to turn down the presence and resonance at 0. You can get away with post gain at 1 or 2. 

Equivalent sound to my 6505 Mini head at Volume 1 at 1 watt and the presence and reso knobs at noon. That is barely TV volume but it sounds good.


----------



## bsshiver

chapperbone said:


> So.... just got the invective after 6 months from the initial purchase..... that was a nightmare. I just tried it last night with my band. I had my trusty 5150 2 120 watt head so I could AB it. Tones are great, but I have to dime it at 8 post and 9 master to get it up to the 5150 2 at 5 post and 3.5 master. My drummer is a beast so I require a lot of volume. The invective is a 120 watt but it feels like a 60 watt. I thought the 60 watt half function was engaged, after switching between the full and half, I found out that was not the case. Concerned on the volume output.



It holds some volume in reserve for the volume boost function. If you leave the boost engaged and roll the boost volume up on the back it’ll work like your other amp. 

Hope that helps!

P.S. Also, if you can get the volume you want without engaging the boost, then don’t worry about it! There’s nothing wrong with using the upper range of the volume knobs. It took me a bit to get used to it, but it ended up not being a problem for me.


----------



## DNCHN

This is my first post on sevenstring, but I've been reading posts on the forum for years and it's been very helpful to me. I didn't realize how uncommon this amp was. I've owned one since November last year.

I've always wanted a 5150, but didn't care for the clean channel. When I read about this amp I knew it was time to throw down some money. As soon as I saw one available online, I got it (through Reverb). I was not disappointed. It's exactly what I needed it to be.

I have a number of other high gain amps to compare it to, mostly Mesa amps. The closest amp I have in comparison is the Roadster. Unboosted, the Invective is tighter. In my opinion and the way I use both amps, neither of them need a boost, but of course they both tighten up with a boost active. The Roadster seems to naturally have a more booming low end, which I like. However, the Roadster needs to be turned up to a decent volume before it sounds good on high gain, otherwise it's pretty mushy sounding. The Invective sounds more consistent across all volumes.

I also have a Mark IV, Mark V, and a JP2C. These amps are all way tighter than any other amp I've ever played, although at the cost of potentially sounding too bright, especially the Mark V. I think the Mark IV is my favorite amp of all time, but I haven't had the JP2C long enough to know for sure, and that amp is a close second right now.

I would also like to say that I personally do not play djent music, nor am I really a fan. I'm also not a Periphery fan. Nothing against them, it's just not my kind of music. I'm looking to eventually get the matching cabinet for the amp, as I'm currently playing it through a Mesa cabinet. I was hoping to come back here to see if someone wrote a review of the cabinet only to see most people don't even have the amp yet. I feel lucky to have one. It does what I need it to do, and it's a sound that I couldn't really produce with my other amps.

Also, I own a Kemper as well, so for anyone out there kind of on the fence about getting a real amp or a digital one, there is a difference. I can't speak for the Axe FX, but the Kemper is awesome for recording. It's consistent and reliable. It's also really convenient to have amps and effects all in one space, and being able to switch amps, effects, and any setting you desire with the click of one button, and it's super portable. However, I have never been able to have it sound the same in the room, no matter what setting or trick I used, it always sounds like a recorded guitar track.

Anyway, bottom line, the Invective is great. The clean is really nice, and the high gain is fantastic and can be dialed in to be either saggy or really tight. If you're in the market for an amp and the features match your needs it will satisfy you.

I hope this helps.


----------



## VBCheeseGrater

MASS DEFECT said:


> The secret to getting a 6505/6505+ to sound good at bedroom volume is to turn down the presence and resonance at 0. You can get away with post gain at 1 or 2.
> 
> Equivalent sound to my 6505 Mini head at Volume 1 at 1 watt and the presence and reso knobs at noon. That is barely TV volume but it sounds good.



I recall on my original 5150 the secret was finding that .000001 degree on the volume knob between "off" and "cops". Granted i didn't fiddle with it that much at home - but yeah there are plenty of 100 watt amps that do just fine at low volume.


----------



## bulb

Haha "off" and "cops" is kinda the perfect way to describe it.


----------



## KailM

bulb said:


> Haha "off" and "cops" is kinda the perfect way to describe it.



Haha yes, I thought so too.

I run an MXR 10-band EQ in the loop with its volume slider backed off a few dbs and at least then there's about 1/4" of movement that can happen between "0" and "cops" lol.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

KailM said:


> Haha yes, I thought so too.
> 
> I run an MXR 10-band EQ in the loop with its volume slider backed off a few dbs and at least then there's about 1/4" of movement that can happen between "0" and "cops" lol.


Probably works sort of like an attenuator, yeah?


----------



## KailM

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Probably works sort of like an attenuator, yeah?



Sort of, yes. It doesn't really affect the tone though, it just makes the volume taper more manageable. When I really have to play quietly I set the slider all the way down and at that point I can turn post gain up to around 1.5 and still have very reasonable quiet playing. It's still loud AF on 3 and up though.


----------



## penguin_316

VBCheeseGrater said:


> I recall on my original 5150 the secret was finding that .000001 degree on the volume knob between "off" and "cops". Granted i didn't fiddle with it that much at home - but yeah there are plenty of 100 watt amps that do just fine at low volume.



This is all peavey amps and it’s a huge design flaw. Otherwise, I love these amps.


----------



## NateFalcon

Again, the 5150 wasn’t DESIGNED for bedroom jamming...and finding that .000001 isn’t that hard for me...I dunno...


----------



## Lethalharmonic

Designed & Engineered in USA Made in China

Good job this year Michael at staying away from boasting about this amp being "MADE IN USA"



0:23 Stutter Misha's Holy Grail Amp is Basically (not to get technical) an old block HEADER logo.

4:25 price dictates the quality of a product? $1,899.00 is plenty achievable! WHA??? because $1,899.00 looks so much better than $2,000.00


----------



## cmtd

2:12 "This other feature is a gate. Now, this isn't a noise gate, this is a palm muting gate"


----------



## prlgmnr

cmtd said:


> 2:12 "This other feature is a gate. Now, this isn't a noise gate, this is the gate behind which all these amps are kept, ensuring that they remain out of the hands of all but a select few for the foreseeable future"


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

So it is made in china?


----------



## mnemonic

Hartley Peavey invented resonance controls huh? I thought it was Stephen Fryette who first came out with them.


----------



## kevdes93

Spaced Out Ace said:


> So it is made in china?



I think there are still folks holding out hope that these are MIA but ill bet just about anything on these being chinese.


----------



## bsshiver

I know you all are having fun, but there *are *regulations regarding these things:

https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/complying-made-usa-standard

*Assembled in USA Claims*

A product that includes foreign components may be called "Assembled in USA" without qualification when its principal assembly takes place in the U.S. and the assembly is substantial. For the "assembly" claim to be valid, the product’s last "substantial transformation" also should have occurred in the U.S. That’s why a "screwdriver" assembly in the U.S. of foreign components into a final product at the end of the manufacturing process doesn’t usually qualify for the "Assembled in USA" claim.​Read more at the link.

B~

Edit: I should add that this is an important distinction because a substantial number of components used in building amps are only made in China now.


----------



## narad

Why is the master volume on the new ones labeled 大声说话 ?


----------



## FitRocker33

Why is the master volume labeled as chicken chow mein?


----------



## Seabeast2000

Secret adjent code


----------



## feraledge

Rear panel shot from Peavey, posted on GC: 





Thomann & Andertons: 





Sweetwater is the only one with the USA sticker? 





It looks like all other Peavey's are printed on, but these are stickers? I don't think there's conspiracy, there are a number out in the wild with USA on them, but it would appear that maybe Peavey was more non-committal about this one? At least if they jumped to China they would probably have been built already. I'd guess that's where the demand has gone and I'm not sure Bulb would have much say in it. I'd think he'd stand to benefit more if the cost was lowered. At least that should be the case. 
As it stands, I wouldn't put more stock in the idea that these will always be USA made than Peavey is.


----------



## noise in my mind

The Chinese are capable of building quality products. I guess we will find out eventually with this amp one way or another.


----------



## Deadpool_25

@Ola Englund put up a vid


----------



## prlgmnr

Deadpool_25 said:


> @Ola Englund put up a vid



1:20 is probably the highlight.


----------



## diagrammatiks

whys it so hard for a company to just say where something is assembled.


----------



## narad

^^ Best invective demo yet. Still always sounds to me like a 5150 with a subtle, unpleasant nasal quality to it. It's also the same sort of nasalness that a precision drive can add (maybe this is a side effect of the same EQing that gives it more tightness), but unfortunately here it doesn't seem to be removable (vs. just having a 5150 and using a PD when you want Misha-y tone).


----------



## mnemonic

narad said:


> ^^ Best invective demo yet. Still always sounds to me like a 5150 with a subtle, unpleasant nasal quality to it. It's also the same sort of nasalness that a precision drive can add (maybe this is a side effect of the same EQing that gives it more tightness), but unfortunately here it doesn't seem to be removable (vs. just having a 5150 and using a PD when you want Misha-y tone).



Get some juggernauts for your guitar and boost your invective with a precision drive, I mean you might as well just play the trumpet.


----------



## wtfrak

Ok I just spent...let's just say longer than I care to admit reading this entire thread. I created an account just to leave this comment because I can't believe every single one of you isn't demanding those photos of a bare-chested, American flag waiving Hartley Peavey hand wiring every one of these heads! Ok I'm exaggerating buuuuuuuut.....Misha said we would have photos of the plant/production and after devoting an absurd amount of my life to this saga I feel motivated to hold him to his word, or at least address the issue fully. I'm not saying good products can't be made in China or that something being made in America automatically makes it perfect but clearly this amp was marketed with "Made In U.S.A." as a selling point. In fact on the first page of this thread Misha emphatically points out that "It's made in the USA!". I also understand that it's not his job to address every single detail but this should be a very simple one and photos were promised.


----------



## Jesse Zuretti

*mod edit: if you want to sell for your store sign up for a Vendor account.*


----------



## prlgmnr

one of the highly sought after early "USA sticker" models


----------



## Seabeast2000

prlgmnr said:


> one of the highly sought after early "USA sticker" models


$6500 or trade for BlackMachine or Dumble.


----------



## NateFalcon

“Assembled in USA”...what’s the fucking point of even mentioning that worthless info...?


----------



## narad

"Payment processed in USA"


----------



## bulb

Okay let's clear this all up and hope it doesn't get lost in the fray:

1. The amp up until now has been made in the US, or rather from a legal/technical standpoint Assembled in Meridian, MS. The majority of the components came from China, and this led to the issue with stickers being left on there accidentally. The issue is that there was A LOT more demand from dealers than initially anticipated, and especially so from international dealers.

2. For the US it wasn't a logistical problem, just a bandwidth one which led to very slow delivery as we have seen. Overseas the costs and logistics just didn't make sense and we couldn't keep MAP pricing consistent if it was going to be built in the US and shipped out. This is on top of the fact that Meridian already couldn't keep up with US dealer demand.

3. The amp is now being made in China. I think there is one more batch that will be assembled in the US but that will be the final one, and then for logistical and bandwidth purposes as well as to meet US and international demand everything will be switched over to China. I obviously had to approve the Chinese sample, but it really didn't take much work as all the internal electronics are basically the same and just assembled by someone in China instead of someone in the US. So now the Chinese version, (aka the version Ola demoed) sounds and feels identical to the US one.

4. As a result, early adopters have a unique version of the amp. Although it won't have a tonal advantage over the Chinese version, I won't be surprised if it ends up holding special collector value due to it's limited nature.

So now we should be able to get this out internationally and avoid the stocking issues we have been having so far. I know there will be the odd potential customer who will be put off by the country of origin, but the feedback from domestic and international dealers/distributors has been very positive with the shift and we are now able to fulfill the orders they originally wanted. So ultimately I think this move was the right one and I hope you guys agree!


----------



## LeviathanKiller

bulb said:


> Okay let's clear this all up and hope it doesn't get lost in the fray:
> 
> 1. The amp up until now has been made in the US, or rather from a legal/technical standpoint Assembled in Meridian, MS. The majority of the components came from China, and this led to the issue with stickers being left on there accidentally. The issue is that there was A LOT more demand from dealers than initially anticipated, and especially so from international dealers.
> 
> 2. For the US it wasn't a logistical problem, just a bandwidth one which led to very slow delivery as we have seen. Overseas the costs and logistics just didn't make sense and we couldn't keep MAP pricing consistent if it was going to be built in the US and shipped out. This is on top of the fact that Meridian already couldn't keep up with US dealer demand.
> 
> 3. The amp is now being made in China. I think there is one more batch that will be assembled in the US but that will be the final one, and then for logistical and bandwidth purposes as well as to meet US and international demand everything will be switched over to China. I obviously had to approve the Chinese sample, but it really didn't take much work as all the internal electronics are basically the same and just assembled by someone in China instead of someone in the US. So now the Chinese version, (aka the version Ola demoed) sounds and feels identical to the US one.
> 
> 4. As a result, early adopters have a unique version of the amp. Although it won't have a tonal advantage over the Chinese version, I won't be surprised if it ends up holding special collector value due to it's limited nature.
> 
> So now we should be able to get this out internationally and avoid the stocking issues we have been having so far. I know there will be the odd potential customer who will be put off by the country of origin, but the feedback from domestic and international dealers/distributors has been very positive with the shift and we are now able to fulfill the orders they originally wanted. So ultimately I think this move was the right one and I hope you guys agree!



That sucks but is totally understandable at the same time


----------



## Vyn

bulb said:


> Okay let's clear this all up and hope it doesn't get lost in the fray:
> 
> 1. The amp up until now has been made in the US, or rather from a legal/technical standpoint Assembled in Meridian, MS. The majority of the components came from China, and this led to the issue with stickers being left on there accidentally. The issue is that there was A LOT more demand from dealers than initially anticipated, and especially so from international dealers.
> 
> 2. For the US it wasn't a logistical problem, just a bandwidth one which led to very slow delivery as we have seen. Overseas the costs and logistics just didn't make sense and we couldn't keep MAP pricing consistent if it was going to be built in the US and shipped out. This is on top of the fact that Meridian already couldn't keep up with US dealer demand.
> 
> 3. The amp is now being made in China. I think there is one more batch that will be assembled in the US but that will be the final one, and then for logistical and bandwidth purposes as well as to meet US and international demand everything will be switched over to China. I obviously had to approve the Chinese sample, but it really didn't take much work as all the internal electronics are basically the same and just assembled by someone in China instead of someone in the US. So now the Chinese version, (aka the version Ola demoed) sounds and feels identical to the US one.
> 
> 4. As a result, early adopters have a unique version of the amp. Although it won't have a tonal advantage over the Chinese version, I won't be surprised if it ends up holding special collector value due to it's limited nature.
> 
> So now we should be able to get this out internationally and avoid the stocking issues we have been having so far. I know there will be the odd potential customer who will be put off by the country of origin, but the feedback from domestic and international dealers/distributors has been very positive with the shift and we are now able to fulfill the orders they originally wanted. So ultimately I think this move was the right one and I hope you guys agree!



Thank you for the info! Quick question if you are able to answer it - Will the change in assembly location affect the MSRP at all (ie increase or decrease)?


----------



## bulb

Vyn said:


> Thank you for the info! Quick question if you are able to answer it - Will the change in assembly location affect the MSRP at all (ie increase or decrease)?



The MAP on the amp won’t change as it’s not actually that much cheaper to actually make the amp in China. It’s just a lot cheaper to logistically fulfill and ship it, and the production can actually keep up with demand. 
What this does mean is that the amp can be competitively priced outside of the US and it should be readily available in all territories soon. Originally keeping production in the US would have forced a pretty unattractive markup outside of the US. Not to mention there just wouldn’t have been many amps available to ship out. 
So those are both pretty big issues solved with this change.


----------



## FitRocker33

The way I see it, the amp is now a solid contender @ 1499.99 or so. Time to knock that price down PV!


----------



## bulb

FitRocker33 said:


> The way I see it, the amp is now a solid contender @ 1499.99 or so. Time to knock that price down PV!


No margin at that price unfortunately! Has to be a sustainable percentage, especially at scale. With that said, dealers and distro are happy with the price!


----------



## narad

At $1899 for a Chinese amp that's tough -- it's only $200 away from the Canadian-made Revv 100P, and I don't want to get too apples-to-oranges, but that's really one hell of an amp that's going to appeal to a lot of potential invective customers.


----------



## NateFalcon

I once had a baseball that had “genuine imitation leather” printed on it...I think of it every time I see a gitchy “assembled”, “crafted”, “designed” in USA etc...2k for a Chinese made Peavey?...I’m out.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Chinese 5150 with proper clean channel, plus bells and whistles for the same price as what was originally advertised as an American made amp. Thanks, Hartley.


----------



## beavis2306

Nice to finally know what's going on. Shame it took so long


----------



## NateFalcon

I could smell the bullshit as it went from “Made in USA” to “Assembled in USA”...on to straight up “Made in China” lol...what a bunch of long-winded BS to just fucking spit it out and come clean...


----------



## feraledge

bulb said:


> 4. As a result, early adopters have a unique version of the amp. Although it won't have a tonal advantage over the Chinese version, I won't be surprised if it ends up holding special collector value due to it's limited nature.


On this episode of Friends with Flippers.


----------



## NateFalcon

Collectors item??...that’s rich. I think $1000 for a chinese 6505+ is a little thick IMO...


----------



## Vyn

NateFalcon said:


> Collectors item??...that’s rich. I think $1000 for a chinese 6505+ is a little thick IMO...



The 6505+ is fair I think, considering that you don't even need to use a boost into the front of it on the lead channel if you don't want to. For a relatively easy-to-dial in amp that sounds awesome and has a stack of power behind it, $1000USD is pretty good. Can find used ones for peanuts as well, and spares are easy to come buy because there's so many of them.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

narad said:


> At $1899 for a Chinese amp that's tough -- it's only $200 away from the Canadian-made Revv 100P, and I don't want to get too apples-to-oranges, but that's really one hell of an amp that's going to appeal to a lot of potential invective customers.


Yeah, and the MI beta is like 2000 usd for an australian made amp that delivers some of the most crushing high gain sounds I've ever heard on youtube (it's at least on par with the 100p and KSR orthos). The Invective has some super stiff competition at that price point, not to mention what kind of amps you can find used for sub 2k. I found a Fryette SigX and a Mesa Mark IV for 1k each a while back. Hell I've found 5153 heads with matching cabs for under 1500$ locally.


----------



## Vyn

KnightBrolaire said:


> Yeah, and the MI beta is like 2000 usd for an australian made amp that delivers some of the most crushing high gain sounds I've ever heard on youtube (it's at least on par with the 100p and KSR orthos). The Invective has some super stiff competition at that price point, not to mention what kind of amps you can find used for sub 2k. I found a Fryette SigX and a Mesa Mark IV for 1k each a while back. Hell I've found 5153 heads with matching cabs for under 1500$ locally.



+1. There's been a few wicked deals on Mesa IV's lately, people have forgotten they exist haha. The Invective as it stands (I haven't seen the international prices updated yet, only going off the ones that came out this year) really only makes sense in the American market and even then the kit they have access to is nuts.


----------



## LeftOurEyes

bulb said:


> It’s just a lot cheaper to logistically fulfill and ship it, and the production can actually keep up with demand.
> What this does mean is that the amp can be competitively priced outside of the US and it should be readily available in all territories soon. Originally keeping production in the US would have forced a pretty unattractive markup outside of the US.



This matters to customers in the USA why? I get maybe adding the Chinese model for international sales, but now the US customers pay the same for what will be seen as "slightly" inferior (MIC).

Translation, we just made this much cheaper for ourselves to ship by making it in China, but you still pay the same price for an amp that was assembled in the USA but now is assembled in China.

Haha no thanks, I was originally interested in this amp, got hesitant and now will certainly pass.

I get it from a company standpoint, but from a customers standpoint why would I pay the same for an amp that is made in China rather than the USA like originally advertised? At least a little price drop is needed. Just like when the 6505+ went to china, but the price stayed the same. No thank you.

Might have to start looking at a Mark V here soon.


----------



## Deadpool_25

@bulb 
Thanks for the info. Now, about that mini head version...

(Or small 1x12 combo)


----------



## Deadpool_25

I totally get the vitriol at this point at the production move if the price isn’t coming down even a little. Even a $200 reduction would be something. I don’t know what the margins are but seems possible...?

I doubt there will be any collectors stuff going on. I’m not saying it’s impossible because gear nuts are...well...crazy. But it would surprise me.


----------



## LeftOurEyes

I have no problem with Chinese amps, I just feel the price needs to reflect it. When this amp first launched I thought it was kind of reasonable at the price considering the features and the country of origin but when an amp goes from USA to China and the price stays the same then I feel like I am getting ripped off somehow. At this price it is approaching near other very nice USA made amps. Since I already own a 6505+ anyway, I think Mesa Boogie is looking better and better.


----------



## diagrammatiks

wtfrak said:


> Ok I just spent...let's just say longer than I care to admit reading this entire thread. I created an account just to leave this comment because I can't believe every single one of you isn't demanding those photos of a bare-chested, American flag waiving Hartley Peavey hand wiring every one of these heads! Ok I'm exaggerating buuuuuuuut.....Misha said we would have photos of the plant/production and after devoting an absurd amount of my life to this saga I feel motivated to hold him to his word, or at least address the issue fully. I'm not saying good products can't be made in China or that something being made in America automatically makes it perfect but clearly this amp was marketed with "Made In U.S.A." as a selling point. In fact on the first page of this thread Misha emphatically points out that "It's made in the USA!". I also understand that it's not his job to address every single detail but this should be a very simple one and photos were promised.



that feeling when you sign up to make one post and then instantly eat crow.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

LeftOurEyes said:


> I have no problem with Chinese amps, I just feel the price needs to reflect it. When this amp first launched I thought it was kind of reasonable at the price considering the features and the country of origin but when an amp goes from USA to China and the price stays the same then I feel like I am getting ripped off somehow. At this price it is approaching near other very nice USA made amps. Since I already own a 6505+ anyway, I think Mesa Boogie is looking better and better.


1 Used Mesa Boogie
2 $100 Ibanez TS9
3 ???
4 profit!


----------



## StevenC

So Peavey realised putting the knobs on in the USA wasn't a logistically effective way to add $1000 to the price compared to putting the knobs on in the same place as the rest of the amp is put together?

I feel like a boost and noise gate can be had for around that. Maybe even a bit left over for when Periphery come through town and get something Misha's name on something then.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

StevenC said:


> So Peavey realised putting the knobs on in the USA wasn't a logistically effective way to add $1000 to the price compared to putting the knobs on in the same place as the rest of the amp is put together?
> 
> I feel like a boost and noise gate can be had for around that. Maybe even a bit left over for when Periphery come through town and get something Misha's name on something then.


A boost and noise gate can be had for around $1000?


----------



## Vyn

Spaced Out Ace said:


> A boost and noise gate can be had for around $1000?



I feel like that if you can't find a noisegate, OD and power supplies for both that you like under $1000 you're doing something wrong.


----------



## Shoeless_jose

Shame this has stirred up so much shit. Even Schecter custom shop isnt allowed fo say made in USA because of silly california laws.

But I am very curious why everyone makes stuff in China when it apparently isnt even cheaper, I'm sure all the many people whose jobs got out sourced would be salty to hear that.

Anyways I'm 100% sure there won't be an impact on quality, it's just another unfortunate hiccup in the story line of what looks like a fairly killer product.

But at the same time most of the world probably doesn't give a crap about most of the stuff that fills the pages of this thread.


----------



## wtfrak

diagrammatiks said:


> that feeling when you sign up to make one post and then instantly eat crow.


yep I instantly regret having Misha finally admit exactly where the amps are coming from after a year and a half of no clear answers. You are so clever.


----------



## katsumura78

There are plenty of USA ones out there if people want to snag them. People acting like Peavey already took the money out of their account lol. It’s a badass amp either way you look at it.


----------



## wtfrak

katsumura78 said:


> There are plenty of USA ones out there if people want to snag them. People acting like Peavey already took the money out of their account lol. It’s a badass amp either way you look at it.


fair point although for some people they did. I think a lot of orders were placed thinking they were being made in the US(because they said they were being made in the US) not just parts assembled in the US.


----------



## narad

katsumura78 said:


> There are plenty of USA ones out there if people want to snag them. People acting like Peavey already took the money out of their account lol. It’s a badass amp either way you look at it.



I think that would defeat a lot of the purpose. I mean, there's the quality issue, but if all your parts are coming from China anyway, I'm a bit skeptical of a significant difference. But apart from that, a lot of people try to buy locally or otherwise "vote with their dollar" against moving US jobs overseas. Like I couldn't get my dad to consider a Honda when we were getting our first new car -- it had to be American. Searching out a used USA-made amp doesn't do anything to serve that purpose.


----------



## bulb

Dineley said:


> Shame this has stirred up so much shit. Even Schecter custom shop isnt allowed fo say made in USA because of silly california laws.
> 
> But I am very curious why everyone makes stuff in China when it apparently isnt even cheaper, I'm sure all the many people whose jobs got out sourced would be salty to hear that.
> 
> Anyways I'm 100% sure there won't be an impact on quality, it's just another unfortunate hiccup in the story line of what looks like a fairly killer product.
> 
> But at the same time most of the world probably doesn't give a crap about most of the stuff that fills the pages of this thread.



It's ss.org so it's not a big deal haha, I'm used to it now. I used to worry about this kind of stuff because if you just live in the ss.org bubble it would be easy to think that my products are all doing poorly, but I have learned not to sweat it because the truth is it doesn't really affect things in the big picture. I really just post here and respond because I have a bit of a soft spot for this place for whatever reason haha.

To tell you the truth, I don't know the answer why it's not substantially cheaper, I'm just relaying the info I was given for the sake of transparency. 

I think the amp is definitely killer and it has been getting awesome feedback so far, so for those of you who are interested, definitely go check it out, and be sure to play around with the relative channel/master volume levels when you do, lots of tone shaping there!


----------



## technomancer

Dineley said:


> But I am very curious why everyone makes stuff in China when it apparently isnt even cheaper, I'm sure all the many people whose jobs got out sourced would be salty to hear that.



Because it is cheaper. However in this case the "USA" part of operation was likely soldering a handful of wires and tightening some bolts so they could put the USA sticker on it so the savings isn't huge. In other words the price was already set for the profit margins they wanted and they don't want to cut it since they probably only shaved off a handful of hours of US labor from the cost.

I haven't had a chance to take an Invective apart, but usually 99% of the components are on the board including tube sockets so the way the "assembled in USA" works for a principally Chinese built amp is to do the board, chassis, and headshell in China, then ship them over and install the board in the chassis and the chassis in the headshell and change the sticker on the back.


----------



## Shoeless_jose

technomancer said:


> Because it is cheaper. However in this case the "USA" part of operation was likely soldering a handful of wires and tightening some bolts so they could put the USA sticker on it so the savings isn't huge. In other words the price was already set for the profit margins they wanted and they don't want to cut it since they probably only shaved off a handful of hours of US labor from the cost.
> 
> I haven't had a chance to take an Invective apart, but usually 99% of the components are on the board including tube sockets so the way the "assembled in USA" works for a principally Chinese built amp is to do the board, chassis, and headshell in China, then ship them over and install the board in the chassis and the chassis in the headshell and change the sticker on the back.



Yeah I was talking fairly tongue and cheek when I said that it isn't cheaper, although it definitely makes sense if so little of the final work was being doing in the US then they wouldn't be saving very much at all so makes sense.


----------



## FitRocker33

For 2k someone can get a brand new KSR Ares 50 which is built by a super nice dude who puts out rock solid stuff and proudly makes almost the entire thing, parts included in the USA.

Many other options as well, I’m simply naming one I can vouch for.


----------



## bulb

FitRocker33 said:


> For 2k someone can get a brand new KSR Ares 50 which is built by a super nice dude who puts out rock solid stuff and proudly makes almost the entire thing, parts included in the USA.
> 
> Many other options as well, I’m simply naming one I can vouch for.


I'm selling my Ares 50 if you want a second one.


----------



## bsshiver

It's like it's revelatory that there is competition out there on the market. Sheesh. If you don't want an Invective, I get it. There are lots of amps I don't want! That said, I'm loving mine, and I would love for this thread to become a place where we can discuss the amp and how we're using it instead of a complaint-fest about perceived wrong-doing by Peavey. The air has been cleared, so let's move on.


----------



## lurè

From the youtube demos I've seen the amp has a lot of gain (maybe too much?).
I guess it's just the nature of the beast, since is based on the 5150 block letter.
Has anyone who owns an Invective tried to swap the stock preamp tubes to something with lower gain?


----------



## bsshiver

lurè said:


> From the youtube demos I've seen the amp has a lot of gain (maybe too much?).
> I guess it's just the nature of the beast, since is based on the 5150 block letter.
> Has anyone who owns an Invective tried to swap the stock preamp tubes to something with lower gain?



I have not tried to swap any tubes yet, but I can say that channel 2 has a bit of room to run the gain lower. The lead channel less so. I noticed in Ola's video that he was running the gain really high and also maxing out the boost on the lead channel. I wouldn't run mine like that, but ymmv.


----------



## LeftOurEyes

bsshiver said:


> instead of a complaint-fest about perceived wrong-doing by Peavey. The air has been cleared, so let's move on.



Sorry but thats kinda funny posted on a thread with over 1,800 replies already about just that.


----------



## NateFalcon

Maybe the air is cleared but it still reeks of bait and switch...that’s why I mentioned the 6505 -same thing...switched production to China while retaining the Made in USA price. They’ve done this before, not meaning to bash Peavey...I’m a huge advocate but can’t stand waffling and dancing around a straight answer with a bunch of backpedaling...They knew exactly what they were doing and thought it’s “Ok” because nowdays it’s cool to just tell the consumer whatever you want to...it’s not just a “SSO thing”...it’s dishonest


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Actually I think the 6505+/6505 had a $200 price drop after they switched production to china.


----------



## NateFalcon

They were 1100 new (GC) and eventually settled in the 1000 range and to my observation continued that price with the MIC models...they’re still $999 at GC. Regardless of price, what bothers me is the USA hype to sell a product and intentionally shifting production to China after the product takes hold. I have no problem with Chinese made products -I have a problem with dishonesty


----------



## LeftOurEyes

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Actually I think the 6505+/6505 had a $200 price drop after they switched production to china.



The price was $999 (6505+) when they were made in America towards the end ( I bought mine in the begining of 2015 MIA), and the same price when they went to MIC. Not sure what you're referring to.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

LeftOurEyes said:


> The price was $999 (6505+) when they were made in America towards the end ( I bought mine in the begining of 2015 MIA), and the same price when they went to MIC. Not sure what you're referring to.



Musiciansfriend says $1299 in early 2015, which is actually more expensive than the $1199 I was remembering.

https://web.archive.org/web/2015050...fects/peavey-6505-120w-guitar-amp-head/481432

EDIT: The 6505 was $999, so it was only a $100 drop.

https://web.archive.org/web/2015042...iers-effects/peavey-6505-120w-guitar-amp-head


----------



## crankyrayhanky

still want to play it, sounds cool...but Hartley presents as a creepy creep. He's the only one silly enough to allow Undercover Boss to film his company- showing how cool and hardworking his employees are- and then he goes back on his word of promotions and gifts and swings the axe on their heads during the grand finale. Every other show is a feel good tear jerker. The Peavy episode still has me enraged years later....now this puff your chest out about USA USA and then go immediately overseas is another unbelievably bad PR move. Too bad, because I like Misha as he seems like a cool dude, but
F this HP guy. I have one Peavey product left (after having countless)...will likely move it as well


----------



## LeftOurEyes

Maybe I got it on sale at the time then, don't remember anything stating that it was though, but I paid $999 through musiciansfriend. I guess I got a deal hah.


----------



## feraledge

NateFalcon said:


> Maybe the air is cleared but it still reeks of bait and switch...that’s why I mentioned the 6505 -same thing...switched production to China while retaining the Made in USA price. They’ve done this before, not meaning to bash Peavey...I’m a huge advocate but can’t stand waffling and dancing around a straight answer with a bunch of backpedaling...They knew exactly what they were doing and thought it’s “Ok” because nowdays it’s cool to just tell the consumer whatever you want to...it’s not just a “SSO thing”...it’s dishonest


It's definitely not an SSO thing. There's 92 pages on this thread though and since the first amps came out, this has been an ongoing question to clarify the country of origin WHICH Peavey used as a sales pitch. 
Ola just posted a demo video (which sounds killer) and Misha said that was one of the heads made in China. So that means this was in discussion a while ago (probably as soon as the first heads kept selling out after numerous delays) and that there are heads from that production line out there now shows that this isn't news, it's been actively in production, while these discussions were going on. 
TO BE CLEAR: I don't have issue with this being made in China. It seems like a killer head and the options are pretty awesome, whether they are worth almost twice a 6505+ is another issue. What is a problem is saying one thing and then when it finally comes out that it isn't the case, just being like, "look guys this is what it is, all good." Implying that making it in China is not cheaper is an insult. Of course it's cheaper! 

I get it, this is part of Misha's income and there's no question he's being a salesman, but if you want to come off as a buddy all the time, be a little more sympathetic about it. Could've copped to the differences and even passed it off on Peavey, but saying, "yeah, it's made in China, what's wrong with you nerds!?" Isn't exactly good faith either. 
But fuck, if it is an SSO thing, then I'm fine with that too. 
If you're going to clear the air, it's more than a PR statement. 
This could totally be fine and yet it was treated as conspiracy then it was "this is what it is, so what?" I'm not losing sleep, I'm not pissed, I really have little to no investment in this (outside of potentially owning one at some point), but c'mon, this is, at the very least, worth acknowledging.


----------



## NateFalcon

Peavey in the past was known for solid, USA made products at a great price -they know that...and the problem is wanting to maintain that image by putting American flag stickers on products that are NOT USA made. The second problem is the consumer having to do their own research to gain clarity because the company only settles into honesty after lengthy questions from the potential buying pool. The third problem is labeling changes to keep the company honest when they knew from the beginning that these amps ultimately would be made in China -along side the 6505+...


----------



## lewis

I checked out the Ola demo of this and the amp sounded in a way that I did not expect.
Think interms of tone, I prefer the original 5150 and the level of saturation on his video seemed too much for me. Like too much Gain?

either way what I would say is the clean channel with the boost engaged gave an amazing tone. That i could defo use alot.
Its features are still better than 99% of high gain amps on the market though.

Abit random, but is there any plans to make a "poweramp" only version for Rack setups?. (like a Powerstage 700 but with tubes and better features)
If we got a stripped back poweramp version with midi still and the 2x 9volt pedal power sources on back, I think even I would enter the fold then.
buying the full blown amp head for that price and power, just to run a Kemper/Axe into seems overkill to me and a waste of a great amp.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

What are people complaining about the level of gain for? Ola always goes for this sound. It has boosts out the ass. It has a noise gate to allow one to go for higher gain without so much noise like the Theta preamp does.

I don't like it, but what is everyone complaining about the gain level for? Ola always goes for this overcompressedultratightsuperdistorted tone.



lewis said:


> Abit random, but is there any plans to make a "poweramp" only version for Rack setups?. (like a Powerstage 700 but with tubes and better features)
> If we got a stripped back poweramp version with midi still and the 2x 9volt pedal power sources on back, I think even I would enter the fold then.
> buying the full blown amp head for that price and power, just to run a Kemper/Axe into seems overkill to me and a waste of a great amp.


You can get that, but it'll still be $1,899. 

Oh, and it'll just be the head. And it won't be rack mountable.


----------



## USMarine75

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Chinese 5150 with proper clean channel, plus bells and whistles for the same price as what was originally advertised as an American made amp. Thanks, Hartley.



Or you can buy a MIM EVH 5150-III 50W for <$1000 or a 100W for $1799, or the Stealth for $2k... all with Fender cleans. And everyone knows that Mexico is basically the US anyways.

You don't find anyone that is more of a Peavey fanboy than me... but c'mon man. They can't even get their guitars distributed to dealers either. WTF has happened to Peavey?

Oh well I'll stick to my 80s and 90s Peaveys lol.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

USMarine75 said:


> Or you can buy a MIM EVH 5150-III 50W for <$1000 or a 100W for $1799, or the Stealth for $2k... all with Fender cleans. And everyone knows that Mexico is basically the US anyways.
> 
> You don't find anyone that is more of a Peavey fanboy than me... but c'mon man. They can't even get their guitars distributed to dealers either. WTF has happened to Peavey?
> 
> Oh well I'll stick to my 80s and 90s Peaveys lol.


Mexican or American factory, the workers are going to be the same either way.

After that Undercover Boss episode, Peavey's been in the dust bin.


----------



## USMarine75

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Mexican or American factory, the workers are going to be the same either way.
> 
> After that Undercover Boss episode, Peavey's been in the dust bin.



Yeah, FWIW I don't think any of this angst should be directed at Misha. Peavey has made tons of questionable business moves since closing the Meridian plant and shipping their production to China. Maybe there were mitigating circumstances that caused the necessity... I don't know.


----------



## StevenC

Where are the cabinets made?


----------



## bluffalo

Misha: hopefully you're pretty stoked that there's been so much interest in this that the original plan had to be changed to keep up with demand. Thank you for trying your best to let us all know, I'm gathering you needed permission etc as it's all business right? Makes no sense to upset the customer, makes no sense to upset the manufacturer.

Of course it's less than ideal but oh well. The main thing is the whole product didn't just vanish and be some obscure one off prototype that people talk about in 2031.

Hopefully that means in places where it hasn't even begun selling or possible to order eg Australia the predicted price of $3500 or so will be less... You guys in the USA whine a bunch about your prices! The Australian demand probably cannot be gauged as there's no way to measure it yet.

Still want to buy one.


----------



## narad

lewis said:


> buying the full blown amp head for that price and power, just to run a Kemper/Axe into seems overkill to me and a waste of a great amp.



Yes. Yes it does.


----------



## bluffalo

lewis said:


> I checked out the Ola demo of this and the amp sounded in a way that I did not expect.
> Think interms of tone, I prefer the original 5150 and the level of saturation on his video seemed too much for me. Like too much Gain?



Ummm it's got knobs, that you can turn.... To set the gain level........?


----------



## narad

Man, Peavey seems like a smart, trustworthy dude:



But it's hard to reconcile basically anything he said in the interview (2014) with shipping out almost all amp production out to China.


----------



## lewis

bluffalo said:


> Ummm it's got knobs, that you can turn.... To set the gain level........?


erm but the erm tonal characteristics of the gain are urm not how i expected urm


----------



## mnemonic

lewis said:


> Abit random, but is there any plans to make a "poweramp" only version for Rack setups?.



Rackmount tube poweramps aren’t nearly as popular as they used to be, most companies don’t make them anymore. There’s only a small handful that still make them. 

Apart from the Fryette Powerstation and the Synergy 50/50, both of which have pretty specific purposes, I can’t think of any other recently developed rack tube poweramps. 

The good news is, you can pick up rack poweramps cheap as chips here in the uk. Especially Marshalls. The bad news is once you have one, you’ve got it for life since nobody wants to buy it from you.


----------



## Ironbird666

lewis said:


> erm but the erm tonal characteristics of the gain are urm not how i expected urm



Having owned a 5150 and now owning an Invective I can tell you it's not drastically different in the room. Also, the other guitarist in my band is still running a block letter and the main difference is mine is probably a bit brighter if the settings are the same. If I adjust my presence down it sounds pretty much the same. So, yeah. Lower the gain, don't use the boost, us your normal boost, whatever the case may be, it's still going to provide you with the familiar 5150 sound you're used to.


----------



## NateFalcon

These supposed “volume taper” differences and bedroom volume talk that makes the amp out to be totally different are as horseshit as their “USA” floundering...total BS...


----------



## narad

Ironbird666 said:


> Having owned a 5150 and now owning an Invective I can tell you it's not drastically different in the room. Also, the other guitarist in my band is still running a block letter and the main difference is mine is probably a bit brighter if the settings are the same. If I adjust my presence down it sounds pretty much the same. So, yeah. Lower the gain, don't use the boost, us your normal boost, whatever the case may be, it's still going to provide you with the familiar 5150 sound you're used to.



Would love to hear more people set this up like a block letter. Ola's was the closest so far to my preferences.


----------



## bsshiver

NateFalcon said:


> These supposed “volume taper” differences and bedroom volume talk that makes the amp out to be totally different are as horseshit as their “USA” floundering...total BS...



I'm not sure if you actually have experience with the amp or not, but the volume taper is definitely different from my other amps. It _is_ more linear and has to be turned up higher (by default) to get the volume up to band levels. There's plenty of headroom, but it's in a different spot on the dial. As for playing at lower volume, this taper does make that a fairly simple prospect.


----------



## Ironbird666

I don't run the boost on mine unless I'm in my lead setting (I'm taking full advantage of MIDI). Rhythm tone is the lead channel straight up, actual lead is the rhythm sound with the boost engaged to give it a bit more of a liquid sustain. Honestly, the lead channel on this amp is plenty tight enough for my needs so boosting for rhythm work just doesn't make sense. I'm more or less trying to get the sound from my old 5150 with improved tightness with using a boost, plus the benefits of a nice clean channel and MIDI switching. The amp allows me to do this.

I'll also state I don't honestly care where it's made, who buys it, who's name is on it, how many people cry about it, etc. It's a damn good sounding amp that provides me the features I've always wanted a 5150 variant to have. The whole ordeal does indeed suck but to slag the amp and what it can do because of this is absurd. It's a nice product that has fallen victim to some crappy circumstances. Not the first nor the last time this will happen.


----------



## NateFalcon

New plan: Insourcing


----------



## NateFalcon

My point is I don’t care about the volume settings...it’s never been a problem for me -certainly not worth buying a 2k Chinese amp over...other people struggle with it apparently


----------



## Vyn

Ironbird666 said:


> I don't run the boost on mine unless I'm in my lead setting (I'm taking full advantage of MIDI). Rhythm tone is the lead channel straight up, actual lead is the rhythm sound with the boost engaged to give it a bit more of a liquid sustain. Honestly, the lead channel on this amp is plenty tight enough for my needs so boosting for rhythm work just doesn't make sense. I'm more or less trying to get the sound from my old 5150 with improved tightness with using a boost, plus the benefits of a nice clean channel and MIDI switching. The amp allows me to do this.
> 
> I'll also state I don't honestly care where it's made, who buys it, who's name is on it, how many people cry about it, etc. It's a damn good sounding amp that provides me the features I've always wanted a 5150 variant to have. The whole ordeal does indeed suck but to slag the amp and what it can do because of this is absurd. It's a nice product that has fallen victim to some crappy circumstances. Not the first nor the last time this will happen.



The difference is though is you have one of the USA amps, ie what they said in the promotional material originally. I doubt current owners would be bothered by this because they already have a USA made amp.


----------



## Soya

StevenC said:


> Where are the cabinets made?



Sudan I believe.


----------



## USMarine75

Enough with the 'block letter' BS lol... the difference between the block letter and script version was the block Letter came with US made Sylvanias and the script version came with crappy Chinese tubes.


----------



## NateFalcon

...people just like the block letter look...


----------



## USMarine75

NateFalcon said:


> ...people just like the block letter look...



Fair enough... it just grinds my gears when people pull this Yanny/Laurel BS about how their block letter sounds better than a script 5150 or 6505 lol...






Get off my lawn!


----------



## narad

USMarine75 said:


> Fair enough... it just grinds my gears when people pull this Yanny/Laurel BS about how their block letter sounds better than a script 5150 or 6505 lol...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Get off my lawn!



Who's pulling that? No one's mentioned a script in forever and brought up 6505s only regarding the old Peavey price changes.


----------



## Deadpool_25

lurè said:


> From the youtube demos I've seen the amp has a lot of gain (maybe too much?).
> I guess it's just the nature of the beast, since is based on the 5150 block letter.
> Has anyone who owns an Invective tried to swap the stock preamp tubes to something with lower gain?



Yes. I also think it has a bit much gain—at least for my taste—so I swapped in a 12AU7. It did reduce the gain and I quite like it that way. I tried swapping in a pair of the 12AU7s but thought that reduced it a bit too much. Right now the amp is back to its stock tubes because I was comparing it with a 5150 (BLOCK LETTER @USMarine75 lol). I still really like it; I just keep the gain down lower.

I also thought the Invective was noticeably brighter than the 5150, and as @Ironbird666 said, reducing the presence gets it in the ballpark. And it’s been confirmed by the designer of the amp that there’s something different with the presence between the two amps so it’s not imagined.

On the volume taper: it IS more linear than you could expect on a 120w amp but only because most people are using it in what is, in effect, low-power mode without realizing it. If the amp is in full power and the master boost is off the amp is probably around 15w*.

If you want to see what the amp really tapers like in its 120w mode, max the master boost, turn the MV all the way up, then slowly increase the post gain. Through my 2x12 I can’t get the post up past about 2.5 (on the dial—not clock face) or it’s _blisteringly_ loud. the opposite way, with post gain all the way up and slowly increasing the MV, I can’t get the MV past about 1.5.

* The master boost is supposedly 10db. Assuming that’s accurate, and assuming that you have to double power to produce a 3db increase in volume

120w = full volume
60w = full volume -3db
30w = full volume -6db
15w= full volume -9db

May not work exactly that way but it’s probably in the ballpark.


----------



## USMarine75

narad said:


> Who's pulling that? No one's mentioned a script in forever and brought up 6505s only regarding the old Peavey price changes.



Saying "since is based on the 5150 block letter" at first glance sounded like it was implying such. Every 5150/6506/5153 thread on SSO eventually goes down this hole. So I naturally go into the thread already looking like this...






I figured I'd shut that shit down now and save myself the inevitable anger later. You're welcome.


----------



## feraledge

Give it a few years, let the salt cure age a bit. 
Soon enough it'll be:
5150 block letter : 5150 script : : Invective "Assembled in America" : Invective Made in China.


----------



## USMarine75

feraledge said:


> Give it a few years, let the salt cure age a bit.
> Soon enough it'll be:
> 5150 block letter : 5150 script : : Invective "Assembled in America" : Invective Made in China.



There's no way in hell I'm spending that kind of money on something Made in China! I support local jobs! MAGA!

*sent from my iPhone


----------



## Andrew Lloyd Webber

It’s a local _con_-job...


----------



## USMarine75

As long as it's made by hand job I'm interested.


----------



## lewis

USMarine75 said:


> As long as it's made by hand job I'm interested.


We all love hand jobs lets be fair


----------



## mnemonic

lewis said:


> We all love hand jobs lets be fair



Not me. Why do I want to sit there and watch some girl make a mockery of something I’ve perfected over the years.


----------



## Ironbird666

mnemonic said:


> Not me. Why do I want to sit there and watch some girl make a mockery of something I’ve perfected over the years.



Hard to argue this point. I think you've somehow won this thread in a roundabout way. Congrats! LOL


----------



## FitRocker33

mnemonic said:


> Not me. Why do I want to sit there and watch some girl make a mockery of something I’ve perfected over the years.



This +100

I’ve yet to meet a girl who does it better than me.


----------



## KnightBrolaire




----------



## bulb

NateFalcon said:


> My point is I don’t care about the volume settings...it’s never been a problem for me -certainly not worth buying a 2k Chinese amp over...other people struggle with it apparently



I think what this thread definitely needs is more posts where you tell everyone just how much you aren't gonna buy this amp. I keep forgetting and it's kinda coming off like it's definitely going to be your next purchase haha.


----------



## bulb

lewis said:


> We all love hand jobs lets be fair


Who doesn't love a happy ending?


----------



## FitRocker33

In the words of The Ladies Man:

“ I prefer gettin’ my wang mouthified”


----------



## NateFalcon

bulb said:


> I think what this thread definitely needs is more posts where you tell everyone just how much you aren't gonna buy this amp. I keep forgetting and it's kinda coming off like it's definitely going to be your next purchase haha.


Yep...in a few years when I can get one for $600 lol


----------



## JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo

mnemonic said:


> Not me. Why do I want to sit there and watch some girl make a mockery of something I’ve perfected over the years.



Truly putting the "master" in masturbation


----------



## sevenfoxes

What the hell is this thread turning into? So many dumb, derailed comments.


----------



## DudeManBrother

sevenfoxes said:


> What the hell is this thread turning into? So many dumb, derailed comments.


Haha it is a strange phenomenon indeed. I guess knowing where the amp is being manufactured, the price, features, availability, and where to buy if interested isn’t good enough. Maybe one day, when enough people get their hands on one, it will mellow out and turn into a thread for sharing settings etc. *not going to say I haven’t chuckled from time to time watching this monster grow from page 1 though*


----------



## narad

DudeManBrother said:


> not going to say I haven’t chuckled from time to time watching this monster grow


----------



## Soya

?


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Soya said:


> View attachment 61068
> 
> 
> ?


I used to say that a lot, but the context was much different...


----------



## NateFalcon

Spaced Out Ace said:


> I used to say that a lot, but the context was much different...


Used too?...what happened, you switch teams?


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

NateFalcon said:


> Used too?...what happened, you switch teams?




No, I don't talk to the woman that I used to say it to, whom got the reference and was the reason I started saying it.


----------



## sevenfoxes

Out of curiosity, what are some other Chinese made amps in this price range? Just wondering what the competition is.

And how do you guys feel this compares with the EVH 100w from a tonal standpoint?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

sevenfoxes said:


> Out of curiosity, what are some other Chinese made amps in this price range? Just wondering what the competition is.



The Mike Fortin-designed Randalls, Orange amps, I think some Voxes. The Fender EVH amps are all made in Mexico.


----------



## Vyn

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> The Mike Fortin-designed Randalls, Orange amps, I think some Voxes. The Fender EVH amps are all made in Mexico.



The Satan and Thrasher are both significantly cheaper than the Invective from memory


----------



## sevenfoxes

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> The Mike Fortin-designed Randalls, Orange amps, I think some Voxes. The Fender EVH amps are all made in Mexico.


Thanks!

Ah, Orange! Forgot that they were manufactured in China.

Could you tell me what the tonal differences are between the Invective and the EVH?


----------



## sevenfoxes

Vyn said:


> The Satan and Thrasher are both significantly cheaper than the Invective from memory


Looks like the Satan is in the same ball park.


----------



## Vyn

sevenfoxes said:


> Looks like the Satan is in the same ball park.



Fuck, I'm thinking of the 50w versions. Yeah, the big boy Satan is on par with the Invective in price.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Vyn said:


> Fuck, I'm thinking of the 50w versions. Yeah, the big boy Satan is on par with the Invective in price.


The Satan, thrasher, and KH103 are all in the same ballpark. The only pricier one is the 667 and that thing is a massive beast of an amp.


----------



## beavis2306

Still no word of this thing in Oz?


----------



## DNCHN

It's been many years since I played an EVH amp, but I played the original one, never played any of the stealth models. As I recall, the gain structure of the EVH emphasized upper mids, and the peavey emphasizes low mids. I never got to crank the EVH because I demoed it in a shop, but they told me they cranked it in the store after they closed and it sounded amazing. I haven't exactly cranked the peavey, but certainly played it louder, and every chug sounds like an explosion. The matching cabinet does pair to it nicely. I have a lot of nice amps to compare to it, and the only amp I own that you could argue sounds as good or better is my Mesa Roadster. It's thicker sounding, but still tight and depending on the guitar and volume, sometimes I prefer it. I've had the amp now for 8 months, and I still think it's one of the best amps I've ever played.


----------



## Vyn

beavis2306 said:


> Still no word of this thing in Oz?



My local talked to the distributor recently and there's no ETA at the moment


----------



## beavis2306

No surprises there. Thanks for the update though


----------



## PrestoDone

Looks like there àre some used ones floating around for about $1600 ... I think its a great ap


----------



## Flick

Trying to decide. Buy the Invective for $1899. It has the built in boost and gate which are the only other things I need in a rig. Or buy the 6505 and fit it with a Fortin Grind and Zuul for $1350.


----------



## Bearitone

Flick said:


> Trying to decide. Buy the Invective for $1899. It has the built in boost and gate which are the only other things I need in a rig. Or buy the 6505 and fit it with a Fortin Grind and Zuul for $1350.



Having a clean channel would be worth the invective for me


----------



## bulb

Flick said:


> Trying to decide. Buy the Invective for $1899. It has the built in boost and gate which are the only other things I need in a rig. Or buy the 6505 and fit it with a Fortin Grind and Zuul for $1350.


Invective erryday!


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Flick said:


> Trying to decide. Buy the Invective for $1899. It has the built in boost and gate which are the only other things I need in a rig. Or buy the 6505 and fit it with a Fortin Grind and Zuul for $1350.


buy a 5150 and the zuul. no boost needed. plus you save a bunch of cash.


----------



## Flick

bulb said:


> Invective erryday!


Man, that made my day! And made my decision. I’m only left with one question. Where is the gate in the signal chain? Input, post preamp, both?


----------



## I play music

Flick said:


> Trying to decide. Buy the Invective for $1899. It has the built in boost and gate which are the only other things I need in a rig. Or buy the 6505 and fit it with a Fortin Grind and Zuul for $1350.


I'd go for the 6505. I probably wouldn't buy the Fortin Grind for it, though


----------



## Deadpool_25

Flick said:


> Man, that made my day! And made my decision. I’m only left with one question. Where is the gate in the signal chain? Input, post preamp, both?



It’s an input gate—great for tight palm mutes. If you want one post preamp to silence high-gain preamp hiss, you’ll need another gate in the loop.


----------



## phil.g13

Hi guys! I’ve been enjoying this beast of an amp since a few months already and I recently bought a Headrush multi-effect pedalboard. I tried to control the Invective with the Headrush via MIDI but no matter what I’m trying, nothing happens. No channel switching or anything that is supposed to happen. Then I tried to do the same with the Headrush and a Hughes & Kettner Tubemeister and everything worked perfectly. 

Does anyone have a clue about something I forgot to do or an idea from where my trouble may come from?


----------



## Deadpool_25

First check that you’re connected to the midi/fsw input on the amp. Next, ensure the headrush and invective are on the same midi channel (last line of the midi section in the manual iirc). Then check the manual to make sure you’re sending midi messages the amp recognizes (it doesn’t recognize everything).

Then report back. Good luck!


----------



## feraledge

If you say Invective in the mirror three times, @Deadpool_25 will appear.


----------



## Deadpool_25

You think I’d wait til you got to three?


----------



## PrestoDone

Cant believe this amp is still outa stock at guitar center and sweetwater


----------



## Andrew Lloyd Webber

Someone needs to go to the assembly line and yell “hurry up, child!”


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

You'd think paying premium prices for Chinese gear would result in the damn thing actually being available.


----------



## Andrew Lloyd Webber

That’s not how supply-and-demand works: First, it must answer the market question of whether or not it djents. From there, it must be marketed as “built in the USA” and sold with “made in China” stickers to one guy on a messageboard, so he can spend a year or two reassuring and correcting everyone else who can’t get one that it is pretty much the best thing ever. From there, more redundant, djent-branded versions of existing products may be announced to this messageboard in odd intervals.


----------



## Vyn

Andrew Lloyd Webber said:


> That’s not how supply-and-demand works: First, it must answer the market question of whether or not it djents. From there, it must be marketed as “built in the USA” and sold with “made in China” stickers to one guy on a messageboard, so he can spend a year or two reassuring and correcting everyone else who can’t get one that it is pretty much the best thing ever. From there, more redundant, djent-branded versions of existing products may be announced to this messageboard in odd intervals.



I thought first it must be a niche, low-volume product endorsed by local forum celebrity that's not that expensive but because of said endorsement and the following hype train the product sells out, the manufacturer inflates the price 1000% and rakes it in. In the meantime, said celebrity jumps ship to another product. Rinse and repeat until it djents.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Vyn said:


> I thought first it must be a niche, low-volume product endorsed by local forum celebrity that's not that expensive but because of said endorsement and the following hype train the product sells out, the manufacturer inflates the price 1000% and rakes it in. In the meantime, said celebrity jumps ship to another product. Rinse and repeat until it djents.


I just wanna know if the Misha signature kitchen sink djents or not.


----------



## Vyn

Spaced Out Ace said:


> I just wanna know if the Misha signature kitchen sink djents or not.



Less Djenting, more gurgling.


----------



## Shoeless_jose

Spaced Out Ace said:


> You'd think paying premium prices for Chinese gear would result in the damn thing actually being available.



Maybe Trump put tariffs on Invective to bring back beautiful clean American 5150s!!!! They Sound UGE!!!


----------



## Randy

Dineley said:


> Maybe Trump put tariffs on Invective to bring back beautiful clean American 5150s!!!! They Sound UGE!!!



Kidding aside, I did see an appeal from Apogee saying there's a 25% increase on the price of the components they get from China. Even if this model weren't fraught with what seem like Peavey's increasingly frequently delays, the tariffs could definitely impact the availability even more.


----------



## Shoeless_jose

Randy said:


> Kidding aside, I did see an appeal from Apogee saying there's a 25% increase on the price of the components they get from China. Even if this model weren't fraught with what seem like Peavey's increasingly frequently delays, the tariffs could definitely impact the availability even more.



Yeah it definitely could have an effect on this and lots of other amps obviously I don't know what exactly is getting tariffs, but since most components aren't made stateside they could get dinged on lots of stuff, especially metal for chassis and such.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Dineley said:


> Maybe Trump put tariffs on Invective to bring back beautiful clean American 5150s!!!! They Sound UGE!!!


BUILD THE WALL OF SOUND!!!


----------



## bulb

KnightBrolaire said:


> BUILD THE WALL OF SOUND!!!


hahaha


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

KnightBrolaire said:


> BUILD THE WALL OF SOUND!!!


Some users on here would like to build a wall of invectives, but they're trying to just get the amp to start with. I think we can all blame Undercover Boss for this one. Damn "reality" TV.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Make Peavey Great Again


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

KnightBrolaire said:


> Make Peavey Great Again


Make peavey available again first. Then we will work on making them great.


----------



## bulb

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Make peavey available again first. Then we will work on making them great.



One step at a time I suppose. At least I’m still ahead of Trump’s wall hahah.


----------



## StevenC

bulb said:


> One step at a time I suppose. At least I’m still ahead of Trump’s wall hahah.


Yeah, but this was announced a day before he took office, so not by much.


----------



## bulb

StevenC said:


> Yeah, but this was announced a day before he took office, so not by much.


I bet more invectives ship out than walls get built


----------



## StevenC

bulb said:


> I bet more invectives ship out than walls get built


Can't argue with that


----------



## FitRocker33

bulb said:


> I bet more invectives ship out than walls get built



And Mexico will make the invectives! 100 percent!


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

FitRocker33 said:


> And Mexico will make the invectives! 100 percent!


Someone needs to make them, but Peavey certainly isn't meeting demand it seems.


----------



## cwhitey2

bulb said:


> I bet more invectives ship out than walls get built


----------



## FitRocker33

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Someone needs to make them, but Peavey certainly isn't meeting demand it seems.



Seems my subtle joke went over yer head. It was a nod to trump saying “Mexico will pay for the wall 100 percent”


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

FitRocker33 said:


> Seems my subtle joke went over yer head. It was a nod to trump saying “Mexico will pay for the wall 100 percent”


Nah, I got your joke. I just decided to no sell it.


----------



## PrestoDone

There is a new review by fluff up on youtube


----------



## Shoeless_jose

Saw fluffs demo.... How does he make every amps clean channel sound like my single channel marshall on the neck pickup with no volume.

Amp seems superv versatile may grab one used in a few years


----------



## KailM

Dineley said:


> Amp seems superv versatile may grab one used in a few years



A new one would have to exist before it could become 'used.'


----------



## Shoeless_jose

KailM said:


> A new one would have to exist before it could become 'used.'



True lol should have put in a few years when theyre in stores


----------



## Shoeless_jose

@bulb i know Bungie nerfed the original invective but that was better than it being a super rare drop


----------



## NateFalcon

Dineley said:


> @bulb i know Bungie nerfed the original invective but that was better than it being a super rare drop


----------



## bulb

NateFalcon said:


> View attachment 63894



Are you older/not a gamer?


----------



## NateFalcon

bulb said:


> Are you older/not a gamer?


Too old for bombshellar Starfire protocol leggings...


----------



## soul_lip_mike

Hi everyone, does anybody know if peavey will sell the invective in white/ivory like @bulb used on tour? Thank you.


----------



## narad

Well China _is_ the world's biggest importer of ivory.


----------



## JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo

soul_lip_mike said:


> Hi everyone, does anybody know if peavey will sell the invective



No idea.


----------



## NateFalcon

Has the Invective become the new DAR fbm amp?


----------



## bulb

NateFalcon said:


> Has the Invective become the new DAR fbm amp?



If anything it has more in common with the new Ceramic Daytona because it’s actually sick and supply is less than demand hahah.


----------



## Jacksonluvr636

bulb said:


> Are you older/not a gamer?


Socom 2 - best game ever!!!

Sorry there are issues with the stock. Have not followed closely as I am not in the amp market but the in room cam video that was posted way back sounded very very good. Hopefully they start pushing more out soon.


----------



## FitRocker33

Jacksonluvr636 said:


> Socom 2 - best game ever!!!.



Wrong-O.

Rainbow six:Vegas 2 was the best game ever.


----------



## NateFalcon

bulb said:


> If anything it has more in common with the new Ceramic Daytona because it’s actually sick and supply is less than demand hahah.


Where’s the full bust-down Invective?...when are the pimps gonna start plating and studding their amps?. Now that I said it, it’s bound to happen if you don’t steal the idea...


----------



## bulb

NateFalcon said:


> Where’s the full bust-down Invective?...when are the pimps gonna start plating and studding their amps?. Now that I said it, it’s bound to happen if you don’t steal the idea...



Nah that’s not my style, be my guest, it will match your new watch nicely haha!


----------



## NateFalcon

bulb said:


> Nah that’s not my style, be my guest, it will match your new watch nicely haha!


What?...you don’t want to be the Quavo of metal?...I’m giving away golden ideas here -nobody besides a few rag-tag SSO members would hate on you for it..? You see the money these rapper kids are making? You might as well tap into that market -you’re already halfway there (I mean exposure wise-no offense lol) Once the right metal guys get into the major hip hop scene you’re going to actually see some money flow into the metal scene

I’m too old to pioneer anything cool...


----------



## narad

NateFalcon said:


> What?...you don’t want to be the Quavo of metal?...I’m giving away golden ideas here -nobody besides a few rag-tag SSO members would hate on you for it..? You see the money these rapper kids are making? You might as well tap into that market -you’re already halfway there (I mean exposure wise-no offense lol) Once the right metal guys get into the major hip hop scene you’re going to actually see some money flow into the metal scene
> 
> I’m too old to pioneer anything cool...



There you go -- no one's making a boost pedal specifically designed for the demands of the hip-hop market. Instead of making your tone tight, it makes your tone tite.


----------



## Seabeast2000

Inspirational:


----------



## NateFalcon

The906 said:


> Inspirational:


Gettin’ close...


----------



## NateFalcon

I’m thinking something like this but with a few hundred carats of VS1 diamonds and a matching amp head -mark my words...it’ll happen


----------



## FitRocker33

Only a world class va-jay-jay would drop 8k on a Liberace-inspired Paul Stanley sig. Ibanez.


----------



## NateFalcon

FitRocker33 said:


> Only a world class va-jay-jay would drop 8k on a Liberace-inspired Paul Stanley sig. Ibanez.


I was just using it for reference...and 8k?....no, I’m talking a couple million lol


----------



## sakeido

Dineley said:


> @bulb i know Bungie nerfed the original invective but that was better than it being a super rare drop



Invective was never good, but "shot package felwinter's lie" just isn't a good name for an amp


----------



## 7 Stringer

Wow, this thread has derailed big time.


----------



## NateFalcon

What else is there to keep talking about?


----------



## Edika

bulb said:


> I bet more invectives ship out than walls get built



Rumor has it the wall will be built with Invectives. That's why it's talking so long 

Sorry couldn't resist. I hope Peavey makes these more available soon. I thought the China factory move was going to solve that but there seems to be other issues maybe?


----------



## FitRocker33

The Chinese factory proved too costly and inefficient. The factory has been relocated to a remote Siberian Gulag. Amps production will commence once the “workers” tend to their whip wounds and cease their weeping fits.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

I thought the Invective was in-stock at a bunch of places?


----------



## 7 Stringer

NateFalcon said:


> What else is there to keep talking about?


 
Exactly.......


----------



## NateFalcon

Just have fun with it!


----------



## 7 Stringer

NateFalcon said:


> Just have fun with it!


I had fun with it, for the month or so i had it.lol

Seriously though, could not gel with the Invective, and damn did i try. Went back to my trusty old 5150 II, just more me i guess.


----------



## Seabeast2000

7 Stringer said:


> I had fun with it, for the month or so i had it.lol
> 
> Seriuosly though



What happened to it?


----------



## Andrew Lloyd Webber

Turns out it had never been delivered in the first place.


----------



## narad

Andrew Lloyd Webber said:


> Turns out it had never been delivered in the first place.



M. Night Shayamalan-level twists going on in this thread.


----------



## bulb

Andrew Lloyd Webber said:


> Turns out it had never been delivered in the first place.


Hahahah


----------



## 7 Stringer

Oh it got delivered all right. 

Was too fat sounding for me, too gainy and not enough crunchiness. I like crispness in my tone and definition. 

Like i mentioned a while back, i do not ljke the original 5150, too much saturation going on and too loose of a bottom. The II fixed that for me.

Now i play my Peters FSM with 6550 tubes biased a bit cold. Crunch heaven!!!!!! I switch between the 5150 II and this every year or so.


----------



## sakeido

7 Stringer said:


> Oh it got delivered all right.
> 
> Was too fat sounding for me, too gainy and not enough crunchiness. I like crispness in my tone and definition.
> 
> Like i mentioned a while back, i do not ljke the original 5150, too much saturation going on and too loose of a bottom. The II fixed that for me.
> 
> Now i play my Peters FSM with 6550 tubes biased a bit cold. Crunch heaven!!!!!! I switch between the 5150 II and this every year or so.



I was lookin at a Peters on here and had a great talk with the man himself on the forum but just pull the trigger... seems like an amp I'd buy, and then be completely stuck with and unable to sell if I didn't like it. a few good clips out there for sure though


----------



## MASS DEFECT

7 Stringer said:


> Oh it got delivered all right.
> 
> Was too fat sounding for me, too gainy and not enough crunchiness. I like crispness in my tone and definition.
> 
> Like i mentioned a while back, i do not ljke the original 5150, too much saturation going on and too loose of a bottom. The II fixed that for me.
> 
> Now i play my Peters FSM with 6550 tubes biased a bit cold. Crunch heaven!!!!!! I switch between the 5150 II and this every year or so.



Glad somebody here prefers the 5150II instead of the OG 5150. I'm right there with you when you say the 5150 has some loose bottom. But damn it had that aggression. I just preferred the tighter and more precise sound of the II. 

However, I think the Invective could get close to the II since the pots were more responsive and had a bit more taper when I tried it. I could get it as bright as the II if I push more treble and presence and back of the bass and the gain. Gain like at 3. lol


----------



## StevenC

We need to get back to the main topic of this thread: finding an amp that has the same features as the Invective.

So I think I've got it. Driftwood Purple Nightmare has a boost, a gate, a power supply, a low power mode and it's also not made in America.


----------



## Shoeless_jose

StevenC said:


> We need to get back to the main topic of this thread: finding an amp that has the same features as the Invective.
> 
> So I think I've got it. Driftwood Purple Nightmare has a boost, a gate, a power supply, a low power mode and it's also not made in America.




HEYO!!!!


----------



## Jacksonluvr636

7 Stringer said:


> Oh it got delivered all right.
> 
> Was too fat sounding for me, too gainy and not enough crunchiness. I like crispness in my tone and definition.
> 
> Like i mentioned a while back, i do not ljke the original 5150, too much saturation going on and too loose of a bottom. The II fixed that for me.
> 
> Now i play my Peters FSM with 6550 tubes biased a bit cold. Crunch heaven!!!!!! I switch between the 5150 II and this every year or so.



This makes me want an Invective tbh.


----------



## 7 Stringer

MASS DEFECT said:


> Glad somebody here prefers the 5150II instead of the OG 5150. I'm right there with you when you say the 5150 has some loose bottom. But damn it had that aggression. I just preferred the tighter and more precise sound of the II.
> 
> However, I think the Invective could get close to the II since the pots were more responsive and had a bit more taper when I tried it. I could get it as bright as the II if I push more treble and presence and back of the bass and the gain. Gain like at 3. lol



Yeah, it can be pretty versatile and get close to the II, but in the end it has the 5150 DNA. Wich is fine, but just not what i prefer.

I had a 5153 stealth and the new el34, sold them, too much GAIN, damn it, when is enough? The el34 was an awesome amp but i had to run the gain at 9 o clock on the blue and that a lot of gain, push it more and it looses clarity and definition, squeals like crazy. I am a big fan of the original 5153 blue channel, perfect amount of gain for me. The red has a lot of gain but is very manageable. I run it at around 11 o clock.

In the end, the Invective is so well thought out and has all the features for a perfect live rig. I just wish its tones where more my thing. I had so high expectations for it.

I am sure some will looooove it. I might be THE exception.......lol

On a side note, my Favorite amp of them all is my VHT UL, so this background of tone is very tight and clear, no saturation and no hidding behind the wall of gain. So this definately reflects on my experience or opinion of the Invective.


----------



## 7 Stringer

Jacksonluvr636 said:


> This makes me want an Invective tbh.



Might be your perfect amp man, i sure hope so. It is a crazy cool amp.


----------



## cwhitey2

StevenC said:


> We need to get back to the main topic of this thread: finding an amp that has the same features as the Invective.
> 
> So I think I've got it. Driftwood Purple Nightmare has a boost, a gate, a power supply, a low power mode and it's also not made in America.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but Driftwood are made in Germany, not China...


----------



## MASS DEFECT

StevenC said:


> We need to get back to the main topic of this thread: finding an amp that has the same features as the Invective.
> 
> So I think I've got it. Driftwood Purple Nightmare has a boost, a gate, a power supply, a low power mode and it's also not made in America.



That low power mode is cool tbh. It turns off the tube and gives you a mosfet poweramp. It would just sound a bit solid state-y though.


----------



## StevenC

cwhitey2 said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but Driftwood are made in Germany, not China...


Nor America


----------



## cwhitey2

StevenC said:


> Nor America


So Diezel doesn't make quality amps?


----------



## StevenC

cwhitey2 said:


> So Diezel doesn't make quality amps?


Diezel make fantastic amps. What's that got to do with it?


----------



## 7 Stringer

StevenC said:


> Diezel make fantastic amps. What's that got to do with it?



Not made in the USA is the main thingy.....

Everywhere in the world is OK except China, Korea... Maybe Mexico......Vietnam..... Add a couple more if you want.....


----------



## LeviathanKiller

7 Stringer said:


> Not made in the USA is the main thingy.....
> 
> Everywhere in the world is OK except China, Korea... Maybe Mexico......Vietnam..... Add a couple more if you want.....



Nigeria
Never order from there. I had a gold business there operated by a friend of mine that was a prince. The whole thing fell through. Never saw a dime.


----------



## Vyn

7 Stringer said:


> Not made in the USA is the main thingy.....
> 
> Everywhere in the world is OK except China, Korea... Maybe Mexico......Vietnam..... Add a couple more if you want.....



I really don't get the MIC hate when it comes to amps. The Chinese have really stepped up their quality and skills over the last decade, it's not the 80s or early 90s anymore where everything was just garbage.

Of course, a company advertising manufacturing in one country of origin and then manufacturing it in another whilst not changing the price upon change of manufacturer is something else entirely...


----------



## Shoeless_jose

Vyn said:


> I really don't get the MIC hate when it comes to amps. The Chinese have really stepped up their quality and skills over the last decade, it's not the 80s or early 90s anymore where everything was just garbage.
> 
> Of course, a company advertising manufacturing in one country of origin and then manufacturing it in another whilst not changing the price upon change of manufacturer is something else entirely...



Yeah this is the issue at heart here, and China is gonna be fine for quality as long as quality components are used there being no change in cost is puzzling though.


----------



## Soya

cwhitey2 said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but Driftwood are made in Germany, not China...


So you're saying not America?


----------



## 7 Stringer

Vyn said:


> I really don't get the MIC hate when it comes to amps. The Chinese have really stepped up their quality and skills over the last decade, it's not the 80s or early 90s anymore where everything was just garbage.
> 
> Of course, a company advertising manufacturing in one country of origin and then manufacturing it in another whilst not changing the price upon change of manufacturer is something else entirely...



I agree, made in China has come a long way. If it sounds good, is reliable and has quality components, who cares where it is made ?

I have a Washburn Southern Cross that is made in Korea and it is one of my favorite playing guitars, a killer feel.

And yeah, they have to adjust there pricing though as i feel it is taking advantage of us and the workers.........


----------



## 7 Stringer

LeviathanKiller said:


> Nigeria
> Never order from there. I had a gold business there operated by a friend of mine that was a prince. The whole thing fell through. Never saw a dime.



Sucks man, loosing money is never cool. We work hard for it.


----------



## Meeotch

Well after following this thread since page 1, I finally got to play an Invective.

I must say, despite the massive hurricane of speculation, shit talking, and general pussyfooting surrounding this amp, it totally slays. I could not believe the grind coming from this amp. It's like a chainsaw with EQ knobs, plus a whole bunch of other shit that sweetens the deal. I don't really have the money to buy one at the moment, but my opinion is that it's worth its retail price. Bad ass amp!


----------



## sakeido

Meeotch said:


> Well after following this thread since page 1, I finally got to play an Invective.
> 
> I must say, despite the massive hurricane of speculation, shit talking, and general pussyfooting surrounding this amp, it totally slays. I could not believe the grind coming from this amp. It's like a chainsaw with EQ knobs, plus a whole bunch of other shit that sweetens the deal. I don't really have the money to buy one at the moment, but my opinion is that it's worth its retail price. Bad ass amp!



so you're saying it's a 5150


----------



## Meeotch

sakeido said:


> so you're saying it's a 5150


Well if I had both side by side to A/B, I might come to that conclusion...but I don't, so instead of speculating I'll just say again - bad ass amp.


----------



## KailM

Meeotch said:


> Well if I had both side by side to A/B, I might come to that conclusion...but I don't, so instead of speculating I'll just say again - bad ass amp.



It's a 5150 with an amazing clean channel among other nice features. I get the criticism of this amp as far as the release delay shenanigans and manufacture location and all that -- what I don't get is the comments saying "it's just a 5150/6505." Why is the clean channel overlooked? People gladly pay $1800+ for an EVH 5150 III 100 watt head, but the Invective is "just a 5150/6505 with a few bells and whistles."

On paper, this thing beats the big boy 5153. Better cleans, and a better brootz channel (that's my opinion, of course -- but since I own both a 5153 and 6505, I think the 6505 "out-brutals" the EVH).


----------



## Cynicanal

If it the Invective shares the 5150 Green/"Crunch" channel, there's something the 5153 does better; the 5153 blue is a much better mid-gain Marshall-y thing than the 5150 Green/"Crunch" IMO.

(Also, I'm of the opinion that the 5153 is also kind of overpriced. $1800 should equal made in America, that's Mesa money. Plus, the Invective price looks worse because it's sitting next to the 6505, one of the best deals in the amp world.)


----------



## narad

sakeido said:


> so you're saying it's a 5150



I thought it was a MIDI-controllable 12V power supply with extra gain stages?


----------



## bulb

Meeotch said:


> Well after following this thread since page 1, I finally got to play an Invective.
> 
> I must say, despite the massive hurricane of speculation, shit talking, and general pussyfooting surrounding this amp, it totally slays. I could not believe the grind coming from this amp. It's like a chainsaw with EQ knobs, plus a whole bunch of other shit that sweetens the deal. I don't really have the money to buy one at the moment, but my opinion is that it's worth its retail price. Bad ass amp!



I'm glad you dug it dude!!


----------



## KailM

Cynicanal said:


> If it the Invective shares the 5150 Green/"Crunch" channel, there's something the 5153 does better; the 5153 blue is a much better mid-gain Marshall-y thing than the 5150 Green/"Crunch" IMO.
> 
> (Also, I'm of the opinion that the 5153 is also kind of overpriced. $1800 should equal made in America, that's Mesa money. Plus, the Invective price looks worse because it's sitting next to the 6505, one of the best deals in the amp world.)



If the Invective crunch channel is modeled after the original 5150 Green/Crunch, I agree with you. That channel is awesome, but to my ears is more or less a slightly tamer but thicker Red channel, not really a Marshally sound. If the Invective takes after the 5150II/6505+ Green/Crunch, well, I actually prefer that to my 5150 III Blue channel slightly, in terms of that Marshally, 80's thrash kind of tone.

I think I may be one of the only people on this site who is not blown away by the EVH Blue channel. It's great, for sure, but I think the 6505+ green beats it for that kind of tone. :shrug


----------



## bulb

KailM said:


> If the Invective crunch channel is modeled after the original 5150 Green/Crunch, I agree with you. That channel is awesome, but to my ears is more or less a slightly tamer but thicker Red channel, not really a Marshally sound. If the Invective takes after the 5150II/6505+ Green/Crunch, well, I actually prefer that to my 5150 III Blue channel slightly, in terms of that Marshally, 80's thrash kind of tone.



Yup that's exactly right, I always felt the green channel was a bit underrated as a full on gain channel, so that's what the crunch channel on the Invective is based off of!


----------



## bulb

Meeotch said:


> Well if I had both side by side to A/B, I might come to that conclusion...but I don't, so instead of speculating I'll just say again - bad ass amp.



I think if you had them side by side you would realize it’s a tad reductive to say that it’s just a 5150, but I’m glad that you thought it was cool!


----------



## StevenC

narad said:


> I thought it was a MIDI-controllable 12V power supply with extra gain stages?


It's two 9V power supplies, dude..


----------



## bracky

Is the cabinet still being made in the USA?


----------



## sharedEQ

What's the low down on this amp?

Did they move manufacturing to China? Or is it still USA made with chinese parts?

Was there / is there a volume issue or technical problem?

Did Peavey botch the marketing, release, or both? Or was this just typical forum anxiety about something many had high hopes for?

Is Peavey on a path to recovery or will this be the last real tube amp they build?


----------



## KnightBrolaire

sharedEQ said:


> What's the low down on this amp?
> 
> Did they move manufacturing to China? Or is it still USA made with chinese parts?
> 
> Was there / is there a volume issue or technical problem?
> 
> Did Peavey botch the marketing, release, or both? Or was this just typical forum anxiety about something many had high hopes for?
> 
> Is Peavey on a path to recovery or will this be the last real tube amp they build?


china made, chinese parts.
peavey shit the bed with pushing it as an MIA amp, then pushing it as chinese made with american qc. they couldn't keep up with demand, closed their missouri factory, moved all the production to china, and took forever to tell people that they did so, and still couldn't meet demand.
peavey usa is basically dead.


----------



## Tisca

KnightBrolaire said:


> china made, chinese parts.
> peavey shit the bed with pushing it as an MIA amp, then pushing it as chinese made with american qc. they couldn't keep up with demand, closed their missouri factory, moved all the production to china, and took forever to tell people that they did so, and still couldn't meet demand.
> peavey usa is basically dead.



Wait they moved more of the production recently? Like during Invective time?


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Tisca said:


> Wait they moved more of the production recently? Like during Invective time?


yup, barring a couple early invectives all current ones are made in china.


----------



## sakeido

Am I the only one who is actually happy it's made in China now? "Made in USA" just means you pay a lot more for less. Hell sometimes tons more for a lot less. Soldano, anyone? The price point should have come down a bit maybe but still not the end of the world. The Invective is a lot of amp for the money.

China has been building complicated electronics for decades and Peavey's Chinese amp operation has been in business for almost 10 years now (afaik). You don't have too much to worry about from an established operation. They started simple with the 6505+ combo, then the 6505/6505+ went there, now the Invective. It's been a slow and gradual ramp up in complexity. I'm confident the amps are just as good as they would have been made in the US.

I just want one of these goddamn things to actually appear in a store somewhere so I can try it out before I go and buy my fourth 5150.


----------



## sharedEQ

sakeido said:


> Am I the only one who is actually happy it's made in China now? "Made in USA" just means you pay a lot more for less. Hell sometimes tons more for a lot less. Soldano, anyone? The price point should have come down a bit maybe but still not the end of the world. The Invective is a lot of amp for the money.
> 
> China has been building complicated electronics for decades and Peavey's Chinese amp operation has been in business for almost 10 years now (afaik). You don't have too much to worry about from an established operation. They started simple with the 6505+ combo, then the 6505/6505+ went there, now the Invective. It's been a slow and gradual ramp up in complexity. I'm confident the amps are just as good as they would have been made in the US.
> 
> I just want one of these goddamn things to actually appear in a store somewhere so I can try it out before I go and buy my fourth 5150.


Ok, just checked... its a $1900 amp, which means $1600 after %15 discount. This pretty high for a chinese amp. 

I also checked, and thats the same price of a USA made Mesa TC50. Or spend a little more and get a Mark V. I think Peavey has a problem here...

Was the original US run a ploy to generate buzz and justify the higher price?


----------



## sakeido

sharedEQ said:


> Ok, just checked... its a $1900 amp, which means $1600 after %15 discount. This pretty high for a chinese amp.
> 
> I also checked, and thats the same price of a USA made Mesa TC50. Or spend a little more and get a Mark V. I think Peavey has a problem here...
> 
> Was the original US run a ploy to generate buzz and justify the higher price?



Checked where? Are you drunk?

Sweetwater prices with no arbitrary discounts, the Invective and TC50 are the same price ($1,899) despite the Invective having twice as many power tubes.

The Triple Crown doesn't have anywhere near as many features, except it finally supports MIDI and has Mesa's garbage CabClone built in. The TC100 is the same shit except it costs $300 more than the Invective.

You spend a LOT more to get a Mark V ($2,549 for what is, IMO, not a good amp at all) or hell if you want the closest comparison, a fully USA made 5150, Soldano SLO-100, is $5,995.

It's debatable if the Invective extras are any good.. the cocked wah pedal Bulb boost is, to me, basically worthless, but hey. They are still in there and factor into the price. There's that footswitch to consider as well, it's too bad it appears to be a little gimped as a MIDI foot controller but comparable units are $200+

This whole initially being USA made, now being China made thing is a debacle to be sure but I doubt it was a ploy to get buzz. I'm pretty sure a guy (who happens to have a massive following) who always used modelers coming out with a tube amp was going to generate quite a bit of buzz anyways. Seems more like best intentions running headfirst into cold business reality.


----------



## sharedEQ

This is the first I've ever heard a Mark V is "not a good amp at all".

You can easily get 15% discount on any major brand from GC MF if its generally in stock.

Chinese stuff is supposed to cost half or less than US made. If I can get a Mark V for $2150 after standard discount, I would expect the invective "out the door" price to be around $1100. You know, thats what USA Peaveys cost just ten years ago.

Thats roughly what every other competitive Chinese amp street price is, Laney, H&K, etc. 5153 is more tho.

Basically they have applied an "Eddie Van Halen" name markup on a chinese made amp.

Either their pricing is way out of line, or Periphery is at the Taylor Swift level of popularity. Who knew?


----------



## sakeido

sharedEQ said:


> This is the first I've ever heard a Mark V is "not a good amp at all".
> 
> Chinese stuff is supposed to cost half or less than US made. If I can get a Mark V for $2150 after standard discount, I would expect the invective "out the door" price to be around $1100. You know, thats what USA Peaveys cost just ten years ago.
> 
> Thats roughly what every other competitive Chinese amp street price is, Laney, H&K, etc. 5153 is more tho.
> 
> Basically they have applied an "Eddie Van Halen" name markup on a chinese made amp.
> 
> Either their pricing is way out of line, or Periphery is at the Taylor Swift level of popularity. Who knew?



at that price point, $100 more than a new 6505+, you'd get
- one more channel
- built in boost
- built in noisegate
- cab sim
- a useful footswitch

wow yeah that sounds totally feasible /s. the 6534+ already sits above that $1,100 price point btw.

Chinese stuff should be half or less than USA made? uhh, okay. EVHs are made in Mexico or Vietnam. 100 watt Laney is only 2 channels, $1,299. They also sell a MIC amp for $1,799. H&Ks are cheap because they sound bad and always have - if they had a circuit half as good as the 5150 they'd charge more. You are so far out to lunch it just sounds like a terrible troll job.


----------



## beavis2306

Still no sign of it in Oz.


----------



## sharedEQ

At this point, I'd just be happy for Peavey to die. I liked them as a company when I could call and speak to their amp techs and order filter caps from them. But if they have outsourced all those jobs, and based on what I've heard of their management, maybe its time for them to disappear. 

Maybe if I was a periphery fan I'd feel different, but in this day and age, you can get something like a Helix, run it to the loop of any old Peavey tube amp, and get more versatility, same quality tones, and for less cash.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Some people in this thread need to take a fucking breather. Jesus fucking christ.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

KnightBrolaire said:


> yup, barring a couple early invectives all current ones are made in china.


I bet only Misha's first couple are USA made. The rest are probably Chinese made.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

sharedEQ said:


> This is the first I've ever heard a Mark V is "not a good amp at all".
> 
> You can easily get 15% discount on any major brand from GC MF if its generally in stock.
> 
> Chinese stuff is supposed to cost half or less than US made. If I can get a Mark V for $2150 after standard discount, I would expect the invective "out the door" price to be around $1100. You know, thats what USA Peaveys cost just ten years ago.
> 
> Thats roughly what every other competitive Chinese amp street price is, Laney, H&K, etc. 5153 is more tho.
> 
> Basically they have applied an "Eddie Van Halen" name markup on a chinese made amp.
> 
> Either their pricing is way out of line, or Periphery is at the Taylor Swift level of popularity. Who knew?


Isn't that 5153 made in Mexico? Or did they move production since then?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Are we still dick sword fighting over the price of an amp no one has played yet?


----------



## sharedEQ

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Some people in this thread need to take a fucking breather. Jesus fucking christ.



I didn't realize this was such a hot button. I didn't read all 100+ pages. When I checked this thread last year it was supposed to be US made.

Peavey's appeal was affordable, american made and they were worth supporting. They seem to have done a 180* and are now expensive chinese stuff. Just my .02.

Now that they are chinese they are in the same category with everyone else. What other chinese amp has so many people emotionally invested in it? None other.

IOW, this amp no longer deserves 100+ pages of speculation and discussion. Its just another chinese SLO clone, and apparently an overpriced one. Its like a Bugera except 3x as expensive. Where is the 100+ page speculation thread for Bugera or Jet City amps? 

Now thats its chinese made, I am less interested in the amp and left wondering if Peavey is even worth supporting? Probably not. It was an interesting amp only when it was made in the USA.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

sharedEQ said:


> Peavey's appeal was affordable, american made and they were worth supporting.



And look what they have to show for it: years of terrible financial stability.

The thing is, Peavey way under charged for their amps for years, even as manufacturing in the US got more and more expensive and the market got significantly more competitive. Didn't help that they stopped innovating, mainly because they didn't have the money for R&D or the capacity to add to the lineup.

You can only race to the bottom for so long before you just can't sustain yourself. 

The same thing happened to Carvin Amps, and Randall and pretty much every company that thought it could make amps in the US and try to fight dollar for dollar with import stuff. If you want to succeed you need to have features and quality, and focus on having higher margins and lower volume. If your amp is something special, folks will buy it regardless of the price.


----------



## sharedEQ

MaxOfMetal said:


> And look what they have to show for it: years of terrible financial stability.
> 
> The thing is, Peavey way under charged for their amps for years, even as manufacturing in the US got more and more expensive and the market got significantly more competitive. Didn't help that they stopped innovating, mainly because they didn't have the money for R&D or the capacity to add to the lineup.
> 
> You can only race to the bottom for so long before you just can't sustain yourself.
> 
> The same thing happened to Carvin Amps, and Randall and pretty much every company that thought it could make amps in the US and try to fight dollar for dollar with import stuff. If you want to succeed you need to have features and quality, and focus on having higher margins and lower volume. If your amp is something special, folks will buy it regardless of the price.



I dont think they undercharged..they prob sold 5x as many amps as the expensive brands (less profit each), but this made them more vulnerable to change. This probably helped them support their dealer network..back in the day everyone sold peavey.

Their first chinese tube amp, the Vypyr head was promising, if they had moved the 6505 overseas back in 2005 they would be doing better. Hard to say why it took them so long.

Overcharging for the invective is probably just to raise their brand profile. It will actually help them sell more 6505s.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

sharedEQ said:


> I dont think they undercharged..they prob sold 5x as many amps as the expensive brands



You can over sell.

They saturated the market with _relatively_ cheap amps which drove down used prices into absurdity (bought my first 5150 for $400) and, not surprisingly, bit them later when they couldn't raise the price on the now slower selling 6505s without completely tanking sales. 

You have to balance pricing and sales, especially if you don't have any plans to update your product for the foreseeable future. 

Folks ask "who buys new SLOs?", but really, who is buying new 6505s? There are hundreds available for 50% the price of new ones, even at places like GC and SamAsh where they'll warranty used gear. _Those will probably be made in the USA too. _


----------



## narad

sharedEQ said:


> Chinese stuff is supposed to cost half or less than US made. If I can get a Mark V for $2150 after standard discount, I would expect the invective "out the door" price to be around $1100. You know, thats what USA Peaveys cost just ten years ago.



With the passing of the three-fifths clause (1787) it was actually decreed that all amps made by non-Americans should cost, naturally, 3/5 of the corresponding price when soldered using pure, American hands. This is also why on Mesa amps you get a QC card attached to the amp that lists all the names of the people who made your ramp, so you can double-check that there's no "Jose"s or "Liu"s in there. If you find one you can contact Mesa customer service for a partial refund. So I'm not sure where you get this 1/2 figure but it's simply ridiculous.


----------



## Beheroth

narad said:


> With the passing of the three-fifths clause (1787) it was actually decreed that all amps made by non-Americans should cost, naturally, 3/5 of the corresponding price when soldered using pure, American hands. This is also why on Mesa amps you get a QC card attached to the amp that lists all the names of the people who made your ramp, so you can double-check that there's no "Jose"s or "Liu"s in there. If you find one you can contact Mesa customer service for a partial refund. So I'm not sure where you get this 1/2 figure but it's simply ridiculous.



woah, i didn't know that, thank you narad, very cool ! From now on i will always ask to see the tech's birth certificate before buying an amp !
MAGA : make amplifiers great again !


----------



## Beheroth

i still have a question though : how much does a made in USA amp made by a native american cost ? more because they're true americans or less cause they're colored ?


----------



## mnemonic

so is the assumption that if someone prefers made in America, it just must be a race thing?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

mnemonic said:


> so is the assumption that if someone prefers made in America, it just must be a race thing?



Yeah, I don't know why people are jumping on @sharedEQ about that.

I see what he's getting at, Chinese manufacturing is much cheaper (hey, there's a reason everything is being built over there) and historically, it hasn't been known to be the best quality. Not because Chinese hands (or really, machines) can't make a good amp, but because the way some OEMs have operated, such as subbing unapproved, higher threshold components, in the past. 

Where he's wrong, from what I've seen, is that the quality has gotten exponentially better over the last ten or so years and companies are better at keeping the QA/QC of the OEMs in check. 

But, I can see why they, and others, have a hard time paying a premium price for something that is significantly more than likely cheaper to manufacture. Especially when no one has played it to see if the tone is worth the premium price.

Like I said, folks will pay whatever for whatever if the sound is there.


----------



## narad

I don't think there's anything wrong with buying American or wanting to support "local" in one sense or another, but rather the expectation that something from outside America *should* cost some fraction of the American price. It's not 1960. There's no superiority on manufacturing at the level of country anymore. You want to take that down a notch and compare company to company, or better yet, product to product, fine.


----------



## mnemonic

narad said:


> I don't think there's anything wrong with buying American or wanting to support "local" in one sense or another, but rather the expectation that something from outside America *should* cost some fraction of the American price. It's not 1960. There's no superiority on manufacturing at the level of country anymore. You want to take that down a notch and compare company to company, or better yet, product to product, fine.



As far as I know the cost of manufacturing in China is still a hell of a lot lower than the cost of manufacturing in America (probably down to a combo of lower cost of living, less worker protection, less environmental protection, etc) so yes, I think Chinese made things should cost less than comparable USA made things. 

Superiority of manufacturing doesn’t come into my conclusion. I know China can make a wide range of quality, from garbage to nice stuff.


----------



## narad

mnemonic said:


> As far as I know the cost of manufacturing in China is still a hell of a lot lower than the cost of manufacturing in America (probably down to a combo of lower cost of living, less worker protection, less environmental protection, etc) so yes, I think Chinese made things should cost less than comparable USA made things.
> 
> Superiority of manufacturing doesn’t come into my conclusion. I know China can make a wide range of quality, from garbage to nice stuff.



And yet without knowing the specifics of any of these, and less the shipping / distributional overhead in getting it back out of China, someone can just say - "yup, should be less than 1/2 American price"? I don't care if someone justifies their own purchase decisions with guess work, but dumping it in this thread is getting old. Of course you can guess how many people would be actively participating in your version of a "What I think a fair price for an amp is" thread.


----------



## Sogradde




----------



## MaxOfMetal

narad said:


> And yet without knowing the specifics of any of these, and less the shipping / distributional overhead in getting it back out of China, someone can just say - "yup, should be less than 1/2 American price"? I don't care if someone justifies their own purchase decisions with guess work, but dumping it in this thread is getting old. Of course you can guess how many people would be actively participating in your version of a "What I think a fair price for an amp is" thread.



There is a difference between possibly overestimating the price advantage of Chinese manufacturing and being racist.

It's not like anyone is saying that Chinese, or other overseas OEMs, deserve to be paid less because they're not American. 

When I get quotes for machine parts, those from China are typically between 25% and 70% cheaper than sourcing domestic. Total delivered. So I don't think it's insane to think that the "50%" figure is completely insane. Granted, these are very different items.


----------



## narad

MaxOfMetal said:


> There is a difference between possibly overestimating the price advantage of Chinese manufacturing and being racist.



Yes, and I never called anyone racist. Though, now I can see what that was brought up, since I mentioned the 3/5th clause. That was more of a metaphor: sweeping generalizations of worth at the expense of the individual are always bad ideas. But yea, fair enough, I see I didn't have a particularly tight bound on interpretation, and my mind went to that more because of the fraction than anything else.



MaxOfMetal said:


> When I get quotes for machine parts, those from China are typically between 25% and 70% cheaper than sourcing domestic. Total delivered. So I don't think it's insane to think that the "50%" figure is completely insane. Granted, these are very different items.



It's not insane, it's just unfounded. How many variables are at play in pricing this product? And how many do we observe? And then we're going to grab a totally different amp and say this should cost 50% of that? Completely apart of USA/foreign make, none of that is either complete or logical enough to reach some price and say - "that invective should have been $1200!" or whatever. 

I'm just so exhausted by armchair expert commentary on what things should cost depending on where they're made. 

To be honest I heard some good Invective demos last month and finally started seeing some pop up used on Reverb. $1200 for a new circuit based on the block letter with new tubes and a foot controller vs. some old 5150 with questionable service and tube maintenance, semi-beat up. Even if I don't want those Misha features and pretty much just want a reliable block letter, I was pretty tempted.

Not to mention those 9V jacks...


----------



## Beheroth

narad said:


> Yes, and I never called anyone racist. Though, now I can see what that was brought up, since I mentioned the 3/5th clause. That was more of a metaphor: sweeping generalizations of worth at the expense of the individual are always bad ideas. But yea, fair enough, I see I didn't have a particularly tight bound on interpretation, and my mind went to that more because of the fraction than anything else.



oh ok, i was legit wondering why everyone was screaming racism all of a sudden, didn't know about the 3/5th clause.


----------



## sharedEQ

MaxOfMetal said:


> Yeah, I don't know why people are jumping on @sharedEQ about that.
> 
> I see what he's getting at, Chinese manufacturing is much cheaper (hey, there's a reason everything is being built over there) and historically, it hasn't been known to be the best quality. Not because Chinese hands (or really, machines) can't make a good amp, but because the way some OEMs have operated, such as subbing unapproved, higher threshold components, in the past.
> 
> Where he's wrong, from what I've seen, is that the quality has gotten exponentially better over the last ten or so years and companies are better at keeping the QA/QC of the OEMs in check.
> 
> But, I can see why they, and others, have a hard time paying a premium price for something that is significantly more than likely cheaper to manufacture. Especially when no one has played it to see if the tone is worth the premium price.
> 
> Like I said, folks will pay whatever for whatever if the sound is there.



I never said anything about quality of Chinese goods.

I never said anything "racist". The reason to buy american is to protect american jobs and also pride in the belief that americans can still manufacture competitive products.

If a $1000 Peavey amp is made in America and its just as good as an import, its a no brainer. If it costs more and provides better support and has better resale (Mesa), it can also make sense.

What doesn't make sense is paying more but not getting the same support or satisfaction of buying american. When other amp builders can make great import amps for $1000, when Peavey charges almost twice as much for a Chinese "flagship", that raises some concerns. 

I think everyone here is smart enough to realize that building an Invective does not cost significantly more than building a 6505. 
Again, let me reiterate that a $1900 Chinese amp doesn't deserve 100+ pages of discussion. I've got nothing more to say on this.


----------



## narad

In a nutshell: Apples from country A cost more than oranges from country B. And that's outrageous!


----------



## bsshiver

sharedEQ said:


> I think everyone here is smart enough to realize that building an Invective does not cost significantly more than building a 6505.



This is not a belief that I hold. I’m not sure how people, in general, are supposed to “realize” this. 

Also, I still love my Invective, and it compares favorably to my Mesa JP-2C.


----------



## sharedEQ

bsshiver said:


> Also, I still love my Invective, and it compares favorably to my Mesa JP-2C.



How do their resale values compare? How about support?


----------



## Matt08642

IDK why everyone is making such a big deal about this. People here will get this amp, play it for two weeks, and then on to the next meme.

"Yeah I wasn't _feeling_ the Invective so I swapped it for another expensive amp and Fluences, maybe a Grind or 33 pedal will be the answer"


----------



## sakeido

5150 circuit is pretty timeless imo, if the amp doesn't suck and does a good block letter tone it'll stick around. Even better if it can do the 6505+ rhythm tone too, that's one of my favorite 5150 sounds.



sharedEQ said:


> I've got nothing more to say on this.


you had nothing to say in the first place. if only you had saved us all the time.

I dunno where you're from but Mesa stuff drops 50% in value the moment it leaves the store.


----------



## NateFalcon




----------



## NateFalcon

Pow pow...bullseye


----------



## PrestoDone

For those of us that own one or those who want one and are making asumptions , let it go...great amo and a great amount of bells and whistles. When it comes down to it....its what most of you guys want.....play one before bashing


----------



## bracky

I was interested when it was made in the US. Not interested at all now. But that’s how I live my life. I always buy domestic if at all possible.


----------



## USMarine75

And here I am just getting upset because I keep seeing this amp referred to as a "block letter" 5150 lol.

The difference between the block letter and the signature 5150-I/6505 were the tubes they came shipped with.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

USMarine75 said:


> And here I am just getting upset because I keep seeing this amp referred to as a "block letter" 5150 lol.
> 
> The difference between the block letter and the signature 5150-I/6505 were the tubes they came shipped with.



Mystique is the best kind of marketing.


----------



## narad

USMarine75 said:


> And here I am just getting upset because I keep seeing this amp referred to as a "block letter" 5150 lol.
> 
> The difference between the block letter and the signature 5150-I/6505 were the tubes they came shipped with.



Everyone knows that, but no one wants to write block-letter-and-signature-model-also. Like it didn't become any less block letter in light of that information.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

narad said:


> Everyone knows that, but no one wants to write block-letter-and-signature-model-also. Like it didn't become any less block letter in light of that information.



Then wouldn't you just call it "5150"?


----------



## narad

MaxOfMetal said:


> Then wouldn't you just call it "5150"?



Then it'd be unnecessarily unclear between a single amp and the whole lineage of those amps. 5150 is shorthand for about a dozen variations, block letter, only one.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

narad said:


> Then it'd be unnecessarily unclear between a single amp and the whole lineage of those amps. 5150 is shorthand for about a dozen variations, block letter, only one.



Were there really that many variations on the head? Like actual differences in the amps.


----------



## USMarine75

No, block letter just sounds uber-douchey boutique hipster I had one before they were cool. 

And seriously, not everyone knows that... I still see posts about how "my block letter sounded better than my 6505" or telling people the 6505s arent as good as the 5150s. I will not tolerate this kind of nonsense on a reputable high-quality bulletin board system / forum like SSO. No, sir.



MaxOfMetal said:


> Were there really that many variations on the head? Like actual differences in the amps.



Exactly 2. The 5150/6505 and 5150-II/6505+. Not including the 5150/6505 combo.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

USMarine75 said:


> No, block letter just sounds uber-douchey boutique hipster I had one before they were cool.
> 
> And seriously, not everyone knows that... I still see posts about how "my block letter sounded better than my 6505" or telling people the 6505s arent as good as the 5150s. I will not tolerate this kind of nonsense on a reputable high-quality bulletin board system / forum like SSO. No, sir.
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly 2. The 5150/6505 and 5150-II/6505+. Not including the 5150/6505 combo.



That's what I thought. Thanks.

I understand when folks mention what revision their Recto is, because those actually varied, sometimes significantly as Smith worked on it.


----------



## narad

I don't think you can be particularly Uber douchey hipster about an amp that routinely sells for less than the tax percentage on my other amps. And not anything particularly more than signatures. Like I get it if we're in a which 5150 is the best thread, but the circuit is modified anyway, so it just strikes me as ridiculous to be like, "no Misha! That wasn't the amp that inspired you when trying to spec out this one! It was the signature model, you just had the wrong tubes in it in that sound in your head."

As for me, I prefer block letters in the few shoot out vids between 5150s that there are out there.


----------



## Flappydoodle

sharedEQ said:


> At this point, I'd just be happy for Peavey to die. I liked them as a company when I could call and speak to their amp techs and order filter caps from them. But if they have outsourced all those jobs, and based on what I've heard of their management, maybe its time for them to disappear.
> 
> Maybe if I was a periphery fan I'd feel different, but in this day and age, you can get something like a Helix, run it to the loop of any old Peavey tube amp, and get more versatility, same quality tones, and for less cash.



Agree entirely. And there's no reason a Periphery fan should feel differently. After all, the tones the albums that you'd have loved were all Axe-Fx anyway. The signature tube amp from a guy famous for using digital technology was just... weird. As for Peavey, their business practices are clearly a mess.

The great news for us is that EVH makes the same, and better, amps. I have no idea why people totally idolise the original block letter Peavey 5150. I've played several of them now, and they really aren't that special. The EVH 5150 III retains the brutality that we love, but is tighter in the low end, quieter etc. 

It's just some weird nostalgia and a desire for "vintage" which makes people idolise the old stuff. I can almost understand it with guitars, but an amp is a simple consumer electronic good. The 5150 came out in 1992. A TV, fridge or any other consumer electronic device from 1992 would be shit compared to today. Why do people think amp technology hasn't also improved?


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Flappydoodle said:


> Agree entirely. And there's no reason a Periphery fan should feel differently. After all, the tones the albums that you'd have loved were all Axe-Fx anyway. The signature tube amp from a guy famous for using digital technology was just... weird. As for Peavey, their business practices are clearly a mess.
> 
> The great news for us is that EVH makes the same, and better, amps. I have no idea why people totally idolise the original block letter Peavey 5150. I've played several of them now, and they really aren't that special. The EVH 5150 III retains the brutality that we love, but is tighter in the low end, quieter etc.
> 
> It's just some weird nostalgia and a desire for "vintage" which makes people idolise the old stuff. I can almost understand it with guitars, but an amp is a simple consumer electronic good. The 5150 came out in 1992. A TV, fridge or any other consumer electronic device from 1992 would be shit compared to today. Why do people think amp technology hasn't also improved?


Well, first off, you're referring to a tube amp.


----------



## GunpointMetal

Flappydoodle said:


> A TV, fridge or any other consumer electronic device from 1992 would be shit compared to today. Why do people think amp technology hasn't also improved?


Because obviously it's not as cool to tell people you got a newer version of the same amp, and everyone knows tubes sound better on a chassis that's been worn in for the last 25 years.


----------



## narad

Flappydoodle said:


> A TV, fridge or any other consumer electronic device from 1992 would be shit compared to today. Why do people think amp technology hasn't also improved?



Because it hasn't? It just adjusts to evolving musical tastes and markets. Just like your 2018 fridge connects to the internet, but the 1992 one keeps your soda equally cold.


----------



## Bearitone

bracky said:


> I was interested when it was made in the US. Not interested at all now. But that’s how I live my life. I always buy domestic if at all possible.




See to me I’m not against buying something that was designed by China from a Chinese manufacturer. It’s the idea of giving away US intellectual property to a foreign country to remain competitive or save money by outsourcing manufacturing.

I feel like that’s the easy way out but, not great in the long run.


----------



## KailM

Flappydoodle said:


> The great news for us is that EVH makes the same, and better, amps. I have no idea why people totally idolise the original block letter Peavey 5150. I've played several of them now, and they really aren't that special. The EVH 5150 III retains the brutality that we love, but is tighter in the low end, quieter etc.



My EVH is most definitely not as brutal as my OG 6505. Tighter? Maybe. What if I don't want tighter? My EVH also has a noisier preamp. The only thing it does better is cleans.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Man. The EVH 5150 sounds way different than the OG 5150. You can hear the lineage, sure. But come on, nobody is gonna say the 6505 is obsolete because there's a 5153. Have you even heard that aggressive low end of a 5150 at post gain 6? Sh1t.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

I love the 5153, but it doesn't sound like a 5150, or a 5152. The 5150 is tighter and brighter, but is more scooped and smooth. It doesn't need a boost. 

The 5150 has more mids. More aggressive. Thicker sound compared to the 5153. Needs a boost, but when you add a boost, it's fucking brutal.

I love the 5152, though. A good middle ground.


----------



## NateFalcon

Lots of people love vintage stuff...amps, cars, jewelry etc etc. newer is NOT intrinsically better -in fact quite opposite for lots of products...


----------



## FitRocker33

.....and in some ways newer is most definitely better. Case in point? Stainless frets. They were uncommon as all hell up until a handful of years ago, and expensive as an option to boot. Now they are common even on some Korean and indo guitars. 

I think most of us will agree the play quality of stainless to nickel-silver is undeniable.


----------



## NateFalcon

FitRocker33 said:


> .....and in some ways newer is most definitely better. Case in point? Stainless frets. They were uncommon as all hell up until a handful of years ago, and expensive as an option to boot. Now they are common even on some Korean and indo guitars.
> 
> I think most of us will agree the play quality of stainless to nickel-silver is undeniable.


Well...I prefer the feel of nickel frets over stainless and also because stainless is (usually) too bright for my tastes. But yeah, lots of things have improved with time but that analogy doesn’t hold up in lots of areas...


----------



## Flappydoodle

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Well, first off, you're referring to a tube amp.



Which is still a consumer electronic device, like a television, digital camera or a fridge. There's nothing intrinsically special or magical about it. While less digital than a computer, amps still rely on circuit boards, transformers etc. Those manufacturing processes have improved dramatically over 30 years. Manufacturing costs are also lower.



narad said:


> Because it hasn't? It just adjusts to evolving musical tastes and markets. Just like your 2018 fridge connects to the internet, but the 1992 one keeps your soda equally cold.



Your 2018 fridge is also faster to cool the contents, better designed internally and externally, better insulated, more efficient etc. It will also be more reliable, less likely to spontaneously catch on fire. 

Point is, there's nothing magical about a guitar amplifier which exempts it from the general improvements we've seen in most products over 25 years. 



HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I love the 5153, but it doesn't sound like a 5150, or a 5152. The 5150 is tighter and brighter, but is more scooped and smooth. It doesn't need a boost.
> 
> The 5150 has more mids. More aggressive. Thicker sound compared to the 5153. Needs a boost, but when you add a boost, it's fucking brutal.
> 
> I love the 5152, though. A good middle ground.



I wouldn't agree that the OG 5150 is more "aggressive", but I suppose that depends how you define that term. Thicker maybe, but you can dial that in with the EVH. That's been my experience anyway, and the 3 original 5150's that I've played haven't been totally consistent with each other anyway, as best as I can remember.



NateFalcon said:


> Lots of people love vintage stuff...amps, cars, jewelry etc etc. newer is NOT intrinsically better -in fact quite opposite for lots of products...



Sure, and that makes sense for some items. Jewellery doesn't age. Usually people are collecting because of rarity. Nobody is going to seriously argue that an old Ferrari is better than a new one. It will be slower, less reliable, far less safe. It's just rare to find one in good condition, which makes them valuable.

However, with amps, they are an electronic device equivalent to a TV, fridge, washing machine etc. I think a good amount of the worship is simply due to nostalgia, and another big percentage is down to placebo effect. To use Peavey as an example, they must have struck incredibly lucky with the very first 5150 to make it perfect. And all the time they spent on R&D, getting user feedback, doing product development etc after that only made it worse. And another company, founded by the guy who guided the 5150 also made it worse..? That sounds like BS to me.

I spent a couple minutes thinking, and I can't think of any equivalent device which has become worse with time.


----------



## FitRocker33

Flappydoodle said:


> I spent a couple minutes thinking, and I can't think of any equivalent device which has become worse with time.



Not a device but....the Star Wars franchise?


----------



## KailM

Actually freezers, refrigerators, and other household appliances have become worse over time. "Green" regulations have led to such "energy efficiency" that many of the parts, motors, etc are not up to the demand. Everyone I know who has built a home in recent years has experienced appliance failure on new appliances. Most freezers will not last five years anymore. I got that straight from a repair shop when I took in my two year old fridge. It was "beyond the warranty period" and "more expensive to repair than to replace." Gave me a warm, fuzzy feeling inside.

The companies producing that garbage fail to mention the net energy cost of disposal of all those defective units + the raw materials that must be used to produce new pieces of shit.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Flappydoodle said:


> Which is still a consumer electronic device, like a television, digital camera or a fridge. There's nothing intrinsically special or magical about it. While less digital than a computer, amps still rely on circuit boards, transformers etc. Those manufacturing processes have improved dramatically over 30 years. Manufacturing costs are also lower.
> 
> Your 2018 fridge is also faster to cool the contents, better designed internally and externally, better insulated, more efficient etc. It will also be more reliable, less likely to spontaneously catch on fire.
> 
> Point is, there's nothing magical about a guitar amplifier which exempts it from the general improvements we've seen in most products over 25 years.


Point is... you missed my point. You're complaining over people jerking themselves off over "vintage" gear when the tube itself is old as fuck technology. So the idea that "hey, newer is better" is flawed because you're talking about tube amps, which are formed around some technology that couldn't be anymore dated.


----------



## Meeotch

So glad we could finally have a proper conversation about refrigerators!
How about ovens next? I heard mkII will be the Convective...


----------



## Seabeast2000

Meeotch said:


> So glad we could finally have a proper conversation about refrigerators!
> How about ovens next? I heard mkII will be the Convective...


The Peavey Convective?


----------



## narad

Yea, just because technology and manufacturing processes improve, doesn't mean those improvements will be implemented in low cost consumer products. Sometimes it's mostly just the cost-saving that is done.



Flappydoodle said:


> Point is, there's nothing magical about a guitar amplifier which exempts it from the general improvements we've seen in most products over 25 years.



Why can you get specific about improvements to fridges and not to amps?

But moreover, and why this was a dumb road to go down in the first place, is the output of the amp is a subjective thing, and the output of the fridge is a set of easily measurable objective things. Peavey didn't get everything perfect with the block letter, and there are issues modern amps do better (lower noise floors, better cleans), but at the end of the day, if you're chasing tones made with block letters, if that's the sound you like, and you want to experience it straight out of the amp without a bunch of postprocessing, then the block letter is the best thing for that.*

*Or signature, to spell it out completely.


----------



## NateFalcon

As a construction contractor I can say with 100% confidence that tools in particular have taken a hard nose dive in quality and longevity...yeah, they’ve lighter in weight but I’m constantly at the tool repair house having saws and drills rebuilt (most are beyond repair),yet my vintage tool collection remains solid. Building materials are also sub standard compared to today’s crap...cheaper, lighter, faster materials have led to lots of recalls and absolute frustration to the installer (me, lol)...not always but the ‘newer is better’ argument just isn’t always true


----------



## MaxOfMetal

NateFalcon said:


> As a construction contractor I can say with 100% confidence that tools in particular have taken a hard nose dive in quality and longevity...yeah, they’ve lighter in weight but I’m constantly at the tool repair house having saws and drills rebuilt (most are beyond repair),yet my vintage tool collection remains solid. Building materials are also sub standard compared to today’s crap...cheaper, lighter, faster materials have led to lots of recalls and absolute frustration to the installer (me, lol)...not always but the ‘newer is better’ argument just isn’t always true



Most American tools are garbage now. 

I went German (Stahlwillie, Wera and Metabo) and I'm not going back. Expensive, but the quality is just stupid good.


----------



## NateFalcon

Yeah, my Metabo grinders and Wera screwdrivers are nice by today’s standards...


----------



## NateFalcon

...now back to talking about how the Invective has trouble holding his dad’s balls up


----------



## USMarine75

narad said:


> I don't think you can be particularly Uber douchey hipster about an amp that routinely sells for less than the tax percentage on my other amps. And not anything particularly more than signatures. Like I get it if we're in a which 5150 is the best thread, but the circuit is modified anyway, so it just strikes me as ridiculous to be like, "no Misha! That wasn't the amp that inspired you when trying to spec out this one! It was the signature model, you just had the wrong tubes in it in that sound in your head."
> 
> As for me, I prefer block letters in the few shoot out vids between 5150s that there are out there.



Huh? The amp isn't douchey. No, I'm saying the term 'block letter' is uber douchey. It is literally the exact same amp as the script 5150, but with different stock tubes. Just like people saying they prefer the original 5150s to the 6505s. (i.e. They are the same amp. 5150=6505 and 5150-II = 6505+) Whatever....


----------



## narad

USMarine75 said:


> Huh? The amp isn't douchey. No, I'm saying the term 'block letter' is uber douchey. It is literally the exact same amp as the script 5150, but with different stock tubes. Just like people saying they prefer the original 5150s to the 6505s. (i.e. They are the same amp. 5150=6505 and 5150-II = 6505+) Whatever....



Uh, I didn't call the amp douchey. 

Simply put, I just don't think of a block letter as the unobtanium required to be some douchey marketing term. And saying 5150 would needlessly create confusion with 5150 IIs, IIIs, LBX, and all their internal variants. i.e., "Our starting point is an amp that frequently sells for less than half of what we're asking with this one" just doesn't strike me as snobbish/douchey marketing. A klon has proper hype. A dumble has proper hype. A block letter has a tiny bit of internet favoritism since it was literally the model used on a bunch.

"I like the Toyota FR-S" 
"NOO! NOOO! IT'S THE SAME AS THE SUBARU BRZ!! SAME EXACT DRIVETRAIN!!" 
"Yea, but like... I don't own the Subaru..."

But whatever. Anything's better than talking about the historical trends in the build quality of refrigerators on a guitar forum.


----------



## USMarine75

narad said:


> Uh, I didn't call the amp douchey.
> 
> Simply put, I just don't think of a block letter as the unobtanium required to be some douchey marketing term. And saying 5150 would needlessly create confusion with 5150 IIs, IIIs, LBX, and all their internal variants. i.e., "Our starting point is an amp that frequently sells for less than half of what we're asking with this one" just doesn't strike me as snobbish/douchey marketing. A klon has proper hype. A dumble has proper hype. A block letter has a tiny bit of internet favoritism since it was literally the model used on a bunch.
> 
> "I like the Toyota FR-S"
> "NOO! NOOO! IT'S THE SAME AS THE SUBARU BRZ!! SAME EXACT DRIVETRAIN!!"
> "Yea, but like... I don't own the Subaru..."
> 
> But whatever. Anything's better than talking about the historical trends in the build quality of refrigerators on a guitar forum.



dafuq.


----------



## narad

USMarine75 said:


> dafuq.



Ah, not that you're likely referring to this but a chunk of that response got cut out trying to type it up on my phone.

~A block letter has a tiny bit of internet favoritism since it was literally the model used on a bunch _of highly influential metal acts/albums.

If I owned a Toyota FR-S and had the chance to design my own car, and decided to used it as a starting point, somebody might come along and try to use the same sort of argument you're making:_

"I like the Toyota FR-S" 
"NOO! NOOO! IT'S THE SAME AS THE SUBARU BRZ!! SAME EXACT DRIVETRAIN!!" 
"Yea, but like... I don't own the Subaru..."

(If you can't infer, like the block letter and signature, the FR-S and BRZ are essentially the same car with some aesthetic differences. There's no need to group these things together. A guy can say he likes the block letter without it implying anything with respect to the signature model or 6505. A guy should be able to base an amp off sounds he knows come from a block letter without naming all the other amps that have approximately the same circuit, if those aren't specifically the amps he had in mind in his head when designing the new one...).

Man, it's hard being on the opposite side of the Misha hate force. Like a salmon swimming up river.


----------



## USMarine75

narad said:


> Ah, not that you're likely referring to this but a chunk of that response got cut out trying to type it up on my phone.
> 
> ~A block letter has a tiny bit of internet favoritism since it was literally the model used on a bunch _of highly influential metal acts/albums.
> 
> If I owned a Toyota FR-S and had the chance to design my own car, and decided to used it as a starting point, somebody might come along and try to use the same sort of argument you're making:_
> 
> "I like the Toyota FR-S"
> "NOO! NOOO! IT'S THE SAME AS THE SUBARU BRZ!! SAME EXACT DRIVETRAIN!!"
> "Yea, but like... I don't own the Subaru..."
> 
> (If you can't infer, like the block letter and signature, the FR-S and BRZ are essentially the same car with some aesthetic differences. There's no need to group these things together. A guy can say he likes the block letter without it implying anything with respect to the signature model or 6505. A guy should be able to base an amp off sounds he knows come from a block letter without naming all the other amps that have approximately the same circuit, if those aren't specifically the amps he had in mind in his head when designing the new one...).
> 
> Man, it's hard being on the opposite side of the Misha hate force. Like a salmon swimming up river.



It's like having a debate with a glass of warm milk. So yeah, I reiterate... Dafuq.

They're not similar. They're literally the exact same, except for that tiny EVH block letter vs EVH sig.


----------



## narad

USMarine75 said:


> It's like having a debate with a glass of warm milk. So yeah, I reiterate... Dafuq.
> 
> Moving on...



Whatever dude. Looking forward to the next Peavey thread where you'll no doubt continue to harp on the nomenclature of amps from the early 90s.


----------



## USMarine75

narad said:


> Whatever dude. Looking forward to the next Peavey thread where you'll no doubt continue to harp on the nomenclature of amps from the early 90s.



^ Boom... roasted. And that's how it's done people.


----------



## Beheroth




----------



## bulb

Sweet


----------



## Spaced Out Ace




----------



## TedintheShed

I have an Archon 100 (that I boost with a Precision drive) that I absolutely love, but the amp is pretty "basic". I like more of a low end driven, high gain "thrash" sound. (Setting uploaded for reference- I'm going into an Engl 112 Pro) While eying a VH-4, that just may be overkill so I want to give the Invective a look.

I worked for a Peavey dealer in the 1990's and admit I have an anti-Peavey bias. While the woodwork was build like tanks, I found the electronics to be cheap. Has this been overcome?

Sound wise, the bass seemed unfocused and "woofy". I'd assume that this is no longer the case.

So, will the Invective do this?


----------



## bulb

No the invective is sick


----------



## FitRocker33

I had no idea Winston Churchill was a Periphery fan.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

bulb said:


> No the invective is sick


Ah, dang. Guess you better take it to the doctor and get it some antibiotics.


----------



## NateFalcon

It has the Chinese bird flu


----------



## mnemonic

How do I put a thread on my ignore list


----------



## NateFalcon

Do you really need an ignore list to stay off a thread you don’t like...?


----------



## Soya

I believe it was a joke....


----------



## NateFalcon




----------



## Deadpool_25

Wow. You guys are nuts lol. 

Anyway, lately I’ve been noticing some excess noise when powering my pedals off the built in 9v jacks. Anyone else notice that? I tried swapping the cables out but didn’t help. I haven’t yet concluded it’s the amp, but it seems to be. 

Also, I got a TC-100. When A/B’ing, I prefer the clean on the TC. It brings to light the natural compression on the Invective clean. In a vacuum, I thought I could dial out that compression by lowering the bass. That does help, but it doesn’t really get the sparkle going. The TC just has a certain clarity. 

I also prefer the crunch channel on the TC. Much more versatile and again there’s a clarity the Invective doesn’t quite match. 

Channel 3 is a toss up. Both are awesome and I don’t prefer one significantly over the other.

I still think Invective is a phenomenal amp of course, but damn the TC is pretty amazing too.

Anyway, just thought I’d throw that out there. You guys can get back to arguing about MIC vs MIA and why it matters that someone says “block letter.”


----------



## narad

Deadpool_25 said:


> I still think Invective is a phenomenal amp of course, but damn the TC is pretty amazing too.



Et tu, Deadpool?


----------



## USMarine75

bulb said:


> No the invective is sick



The early block letter Invectives were.


----------



## USMarine75

Deadpool_25 said:


> You guys can get back to arguing about MIC vs MIA...



My apologies... Back off topic... here is an excerpt from an interview with Hartley Peavey regarding guitar amp production in China:

Interviewer asked:

"American made Peavey amps of the past are known as the toughest, most road worthy amps in the world. Are the amps built out of country capable of living up to the high standards set by the American made amps?"

Hartley Peavey replied:

"I started building amplifiers in the late 50's. By the time I graduated from high school, I'd built quite a few amps for myself and my friends. This practice continued for most of my college career. In 1964, I decided that I wanted to build the best amps available. By the time I had graduated from college, many of the family owned music manufacturers had been bought out by huge companies like CBS, LTV, Norland, etc, etc. When I started Peavey 44 years ago (1965) I set out to do what every musician has always wished for..."good gear at fair prices"...That's what we've been doing since the company officially started June, 1 1965.

Good gear at fair prices was certainly a major objective, but another was building gear that was reliable. Some of my early amplifiers weren't as reliable as I'd hoped for, but by 1965, I had already had quite a few years of building amps under my belt. I used that experience with our first amplifiers, and every year since then, our experience has gotten better and better. One unique thing about Peavey is that we've had 44 years to EVOLVE and grow under the same ownership and management based on our own experience (as well as watching closely the techniques, circuitry, and approaches used by our competitors). Because Peavey is one of the few companies in our end of the music and sound business that has existed 44 years under the SAME OWNERSHIP and MANAGEMENT, we have the good fortune to remember history, so we've always tried to NOT make the same mistake twice. This also applies to closely observing our competitors and not making the same mistakes we've seen them make. This has resulted in Peavey having the most reliable gear available because we constantly utalize our unmatched record of experience. Interestingly, I built my first tube amp before many of the current crop of "amp gurus" were born! Yet, many of these guys claim to have some "magic"...Frankly, I doubt it. I've been in this business a long, long time and I've run into a lot of science & technology, quite a lot of technique (good and bad) and quite a bit of "art"...But NEVER any "magic." Strangely, guitar players (in particular) seem to believe in magic... I've NEVER encountered any "magic." I believe that what people don't understand they consider magic, but if you UNDERSTAND techniques and technologies, then it becomes SCIENCE.

You asked about the quality of our Chinese made gear. Early Chinese stuff was, frankly, not very good. The same was true re: Japanese goods and later Korean goods. Today, Japan makes high quality goods because they went through the "learning curve" with much of the techniques and technology "borrowed" from the USA, UK, and Europe; ditto the Koreans. For the last decade or so, China has been learning the same lessons and has progressed amazingly fast. Peavey was the LAST major manufacturer to move production of low and medium priced gear to China. We resisted that decision until it became clear that all of our competitors in those price ranges had already done so, and it was obvious that USA made gear simply could not compete pricewise with China made gear. When we finally got around to making that decision, we decided that we would design our products here, (including the packaging) and manufacture it in China using components we know and had experience with...This is in stark contrast to many of our competitors, who basically buy "off the shelf products" in China and merely change the faceplate or logo. Because Peavey designs all our products and the packaging (utilizing components that we know will work) our China made gear is apparently just as reliable as our US made gear. In spite of making a considerable amount of our low and medium priced gear in China, Peavey retains extensive manufacturing capabilities in the USA, including our recently opened 19th Street Custom Shop. All in all, we believe that our US based design, packaging, and component selection with Chinese manufacture is a good combination, which utilizes the best capabilities of our USA design team (and their vast experience) and our Chinese suppliers. Customers everywhere "claim" to want to purchase USA made product, but unfortunately, when confronted with American pricing, many opt for Chinese made goods. I suppose that's just a fact of life that has to be dealt with. In any case, I feel like we are offering the best product in every category, whether it's made in our extensive USA facilities or sourced in China (but designed in the USA)."


----------



## feraledge

I just want my 5153 to have switches on the front. I had hoped that among the things the Invective would inspire EVH to do, that would be one of them. Alas...


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

"In spite of making a considerable amount of our low and medium priced gear in China, Peavey retains extensive manufacturing capabilities in the USA, including our recently opened 19th Street Custom Shop."

Not anymore!


----------



## USMarine75

Spaced Out Ace said:


> "In spite of making a considerable amount of our low and medium priced gear in China, Peavey retains extensive manufacturing capabilities in the USA, including our recently opened 19th Street Custom Shop."
> 
> Not anymore!



Shhh... we dont talk about that.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

No, what we don't talk about is that fucking Unde-handovermouthmuffledwords-


----------



## Soya

He's kinda full of himself, yeah?


----------



## USMarine75

Soya said:


> He's kinda full of himself, yeah?



Why, because he drives Porsche and plays prog metal? Come at me bro! I'll cut you.


----------



## Seabeast2000

This topic has gone into litigation. Narad, Esq. will be representing his client, 1992.


----------



## narad

The906 said:


> This topic has gone into litigation. Narad, Esq. will be representing his client, 1992.



Shit timing -- Kavanaugh's historically tough on tone.


----------



## Soya

USMarine75 said:


> Why, because he drives Porsche and plays prog metal? Come at me bro! I'll cut you.



Sig version.


----------



## Xaios

narad said:


> Shit timing -- Kavanaugh's historically tough on tone.


He claims to respect precedent though. I guess we'll find out if he ends up voting to overturn Gibson vs. PRS.


----------



## PrestoDone

Rofl you fellas are funny


----------



## PrestoDone

Deadpool_25 said:


> Wow. You guys are nuts lol.
> 
> Anyway, lately I’ve been noticing some excess noise when powering my pedals off the built in 9v jacks. Anyone else notice that? I tried swapping the cables out but didn’t help. I haven’t yet concluded it’s the amp, but it seems to be.
> 
> Also, I got a TC-100. When A/B’ing, I prefer the clean on the TC. It brings to light the natural compression on the Invective clean. In a vacuum, I thought I could dial out that compression by lowering the bass. That does help, but it doesn’t really get the sparkle going. The TC just has a certain clarity.
> 
> I also prefer the crunch channel on the TC. Much more versatile and again there’s a clarity the Invective doesn’t quite match.
> 
> Channel 3 is a toss up. Both are awesome and I don’t prefer one significantly over the other.
> 
> I still think Invective is a phenomenal amp of course, but damn the TC is pretty amazing too.
> 
> Anyway, just thought I’d throw that out there. You guys can get back to arguing about MIC vs MIA and why it matters that someone says “block letter.”




Havnt noticed execive noise on my amp...i am running a isp gstring 2 throught the loop


----------



## Meeotch

Deadpool_25 said:


> I still think Invective is a phenomenal amp of course, but damn the TC is pretty amazing too.



I've always been curious about the TC100. Not sure I would use the power soak switches, as I've always preferred max wattage even at low volumes. But Mesa is claiming the TC to have the most gain of any Mesa. What do you think about it's metal rhythm tones compared to the invective?


----------



## USMarine75

Soya said:


> Sig version.


----------



## TheWarAgainstTime




----------



## narad

TheWarAgainstTime said:


>




Based on the block letter. Nice.


----------



## bulb

TheWarAgainstTime said:


>




Such a sick demo!


----------



## Deadpool_25

Meeotch said:


> What do you think about it's metal rhythm tones compared to the invective?



They’re both awesome, just different. Kind of like some people like the Recto better, and some prefer the 5150. The TC does have a ton of gain but, like so many other high gain amps, most people probably wouldn’t use so much anyway. Mine doesn’t get much past 1:00. I keep the Invective’s around 9:00-10:00.

The Invective lead is very much like a 5150’s but with more high end on tap—I find myself turning it down a bit.

I find the TC tougher to describe, in part because I can so easily swap tubes. That makes me a bit more hesitant to try to describe since it’s tough to do justice to its tonal versatility.

For now I’ll just say I think both sound phenomenal on their lead channels for Heavy rhythms. I’ve always loved that 5150 metal rhythm tone though which is a main reason I got the Invective. 

FWIW, my friend played through my Invective a couple times and ended up ordering one (he ordered the 2x12 cab too, which I don’t have). About a month later I got the TC-100 and we played through both amps side by side doing a pretty comprehensive a/b comparison. While he still really liked the Invective, he much preferred the TC-‘s channels 1 & 2...I had to agree (somewhat grudgingly, I admit). The TC has that clarity I mentioned before—that really shines through on those channels. We both thought channel 3 comparisons were a tie. He’s really into cleans these days so he canceled the Invective setup (which still hadn’t shipped after over a month anyway) and ordered a TC-50 combo which he now loves.


----------



## Deadpool_25

TheWarAgainstTime said:


>




That’s the best demo yet imo. Does show the capabilities and versatility of the amp very well. Kudos to Bea and Joss for that.

The guys do seem to love it. As has been said by others in other threads though, it can be tough to know just how much because you rarely hear any of the big name YouTube guys say anything negative about any products, let alone products put out by guys we might think of as their “circle.” In this case though, the read I get is that it seems to be genuine. As I’ve said before, it’s a beast of an amp.

Now, as has been the case lately, I’m outta here for a while. While you guys keep discussing stuff of debatable import (pun intended), I’ll keep playing/practicing on my awesome amp. Errr...amps (with a nod to the TC).


----------



## Miek

my invective says assembled in USA on the back which I imagine means something different from made in USA. still, good amp


----------



## bulb

USMarine75 said:


> Why, because he drives Porsche and plays prog metal? Come at me bro! I'll cut you.


I don’t drive a Porsche and it’s arguable whether I play metal


----------



## USMarine75

Soya said:


> He's kinda full of himself, yeah?





USMarine75 said:


> Why, because he drives Porsche and plays prog metal? Come at me bro! I'll cut you.





bulb said:


> I don’t drive a Porsche and it’s arguable whether I play metal



It was (supposed to be) funny because (I assumed) he was talking about Hartley Peavey in his interview I posted, but I hilariously shifted his angst from HP to you. 

tl;dr Jokes are funnier when you have to explain them.


----------



## Soya




----------



## MASS DEFECT

Deadpool_25 said:


> They’re both awesome, just different. Kind of like some people like the Recto better, and some prefer the 5150. The TC does have a ton of gain but, like so many other high gain amps, most people probably wouldn’t use so much anyway. Mine doesn’t get much past 1:00. I keep the Invective’s around 9:00-10:00.
> 
> The Invective lead is very much like a 5150’s but with more high end on tap—I find myself turning it down a bit.
> 
> I find the TC tougher to describe, in part because I can so easily swap tubes. That makes me a bit more hesitant to try to describe since it’s tough to do justice to its tonal versatility.
> 
> For now I’ll just say I think both sound phenomenal on their lead channels for Heavy rhythms. I’ve always loved that 5150 metal rhythm tone though which is a main reason I got the Invective.
> 
> FWIW, my friend played through my Invective a couple times and ended up ordering one (he ordered the 2x12 cab too, which I don’t have). About a month later I got the TC-100 and we played through both amps side by side doing a pretty comprehensive a/b comparison. While he still really liked the Invective, he much preferred the TC-‘s channels 1 & 2...I had to agree (somewhat grudgingly, I admit). The TC has that clarity I mentioned before—that really shines through on those channels. We both thought channel 3 comparisons were a tie. He’s really into cleans these days so he canceled the Invective setup (which still hadn’t shipped after over a month anyway) and ordered a TC-50 combo which he now loves.



So is the TC100 darker sounding the Invective high gain channel? I was hoping it would be a Recto-Mark with some Marshall character in the high mids.


----------



## lurè

MASS DEFECT said:


> I was hoping it would be a Recto-Mark with some Marshall character in the high mids.



Perfect amp doesn't exi...


----------



## NateFalcon

lurè said:


> Perfect amp doesn't exi...


I disagree lol...


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

NateFalcon said:


> I disagree lol...
> View attachment 64733



That's not a JP2C.


----------



## narad

Are you guys making this like a competition award ceremony where you announce the third and second place winner, and only then do you post the diezel Hebert?? Like build up the suspense?


----------



## Seabeast2000

narad said:


> Are you guys making this like a competition award ceremony where you announce the third and second place winner, and only then do you post the *5150 Script*?? Like build up the suspense?



I'll take the opportunity to keep the gag going and FTFY.


----------



## narad

The906 said:


> I'll take the opportunity to keep the gag going and FTFY.



_SCRIPT_!? Why don't you just fart into your DAW?


----------



## Werecow

narad said:


> _SCRIPT_!? Why don't you just fart into your DAW?


Digital Anus Workstation?


----------



## KnightBrolaire

I see your 5150 and raise you one FSM


----------



## narad

C'mon guys, put your peters away.


----------



## USMarine75

KnightBrolaire said:


> I see your 5150 and raise you one FSM






/thread


----------



## KnightBrolaire

USMarine75 said:


> View attachment 64748
> 
> 
> /thread


haha i thought about posting my kemper.


----------



## FitRocker33

USMarine75 said:


> View attachment 64748
> 
> 
> /thread



How’d you get that sweet axefx III in a desert tan anodized finish?!?! I’ll pay you TOP dollar!


----------



## sakeido

narad said:


> _SCRIPT_!? Why don't you just fart into your DAW?



actually if you sample a fart and run it through BYOME, it can sound more lush and full than an Omnisphere pad synth


----------



## USMarine75

FitRocker33 said:


> How’d you get that sweet axefx III in a desert tan anodized finish?!?! I’ll pay you TOP dollar!



Opening bid is Leah from Aliases Blackmachine collection. I'm still on the fence about selling tho... lol


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

USMarine75 said:


> Opening bid is Leah from Aliases Blackmachine collection. I'm still on the fence about selling tho... lol


Review from that transaction: "He sold me a box."


----------



## Given To Fly

bulb said:


> I don’t drive a Porsche and it’s arguable whether I play metal



You either play metal or country. Those seem to be the rules now.


----------



## bulb

Given To Fly said:


> You either play metal or country. Those seem to be the rules now.


I suppose that means I play country


----------



## mnemonic

Basically dad-prog at this point.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

can't wait for the paisley version of the invective in that case


----------



## narad

KnightBrolaire said:


> can't wait for the paisley version of the invective in that case



Uh uh. Suede and vox cloth.


----------



## Deadpool_25

MASS DEFECT said:


> So is the TC100 darker sounding the Invective high gain channel? I was hoping it would be a Recto-Mark with some Marshall character in the high mids.



Define “darker” so we can better talk from a similar perspective. 

I personally don’t hear much Mark in the TC but my experience with the Marks is somewhat limited. I definitely get a Recto/Marshall thing from it. Maybe leaning more towards Marshall with 6V6s (which sound amazing) and more Recto with 6L6s. I guess? I dunno if those comparisons are of any real value though. It kinda has its own thing going...


----------



## mylilss

Just curious if anyone has tried KT88’s in this amp yet ? I’ve been tossing up the idea of retubing my invective with a set but it looks like they used the narrow power tube placement peavey is notorious for, which would mean they don’t fit. I’m not sure of the exact spacing needed so I thought I’d ask on here to see if anyone has tried it


----------



## oneblackened

mylilss said:


> Just curious if anyone has tried KT88’s in this amp yet ? I’ve been tossing up the idea of retubing my invective with a set but it looks like they used the narrow power tube placement peavey is notorious for, which would mean they don’t fit. I’m not sure of the exact spacing needed so I thought I’d ask on here to see if anyone has tried it


 Measure the space from socket center to socket center. The narrowest I'd try is 2.5" center to center.


----------



## Veldar

bulb said:


> it’s arguable whether I play metal


----------



## bluffalo

I no longer have a Facebook account, is anyone able to message John Fields and see if there's any update for the start of production for the Australian market?


----------



## Deadpool_25

@bluffalo I asked in the FB group and John said “they should’ve been shipping there for a while now.”


----------



## Seabeast2000

Theres a used one listed on tucson cl.


----------



## beavis2306

Deadpool_25 said:


> @bluffalo I asked in the FB group and John said “they should’ve been shipping there for a while now.”



I cannae find any evidence of this. Sorta been keeping an eye out for these but no joy yet


----------



## Miek

there's kind of a fizziness to mine that I can't eq out. can't tell if it's endemic to the circuit or what


----------



## Deadpool_25

Have you tried cranking the Post gain and using the Master to control volume? Or...is it the reverse? Lol. Not gonna lie, I haven’t used the Invective in a while. Lately it’s been mostly the Vibrolux with pedals, or the TC-100. Shocking, I know. /shrug


----------



## FILTHnFEAR

@Deadpool_25, or any other owners, 

How programmable is the Invective with the included footswitch? It says 9 presets, but how detailed can the presets be?

Am I correct in saying I can have 9 different preset combinations of any channel, boosts and/or gate on or off and whichever fx loop I want or don't want?

I'm after a new amp as well as being really set on finally having an fx switching system but I honestly can't justify spending more on a Boss Es-8 or GCX or the like that's going to cost way more than the very few pedals I'll ever be using. I've been looking at Mesa Mark IV/V's and the Satan but would still need to buy an fx switching systems for those.

The Invective sounds amazing from what I've heard, the bells and whistles would be super useful, so I'd rather put more money towards an awesome amp that can do all I want rather than really cool albeit pretty pricey(for me) midi systems. 

I just want to make sure I completely understand what all the Invective is capable of before I drop the cash. 

Any help folks? Thanks!


----------



## Deadpool_25

@FILTHnFEAR

Yeah the presets can be any combination of channel, master boost on/off, drive boost on/off, fx loop 1 and/or 2 on/off.

Additionally the presets will send a midi message so you could control a midi-capable pedal and have its settings vary per preset.

Do you already have the pedals you’re going to use?


----------



## Bearitone

Deadpool_25 said:


> @FILTHnFEAR
> 
> Yeah the presets can be any combination of channel, master boost on/off, drive boost on/off, fx loop 1 and/or 2 on/off.
> 
> Additionally the presets will send a midi message so you could control a midi-capable pedal and have its settings vary per preset.
> 
> Do you already have the pedals you’re going to use?



Daaammnn. I didn’t know it could do all that


----------



## FILTHnFEAR

Deadpool_25 said:


> @FILTHnFEAR
> 
> Yeah the presets can be any combination of channel, master boost on/off, drive boost on/off, fx loop 1 and/or 2 on/off.
> 
> Additionally the presets will send a midi message so you could control a midi-capable pedal and have its settings vary per preset.
> 
> Do you already have the pedals you’re going to use?



Sweeeet!

I have a Boss delay and chorus, and want a reverb as well for cleans, and have an eq for hi gain that I would use in separate loops. And ideally I want to have a few different delay and reverb settings without having to stop and adjust the pedals. So if I can control midi capable pedals with the Invective footswitch as well, I will eventually probably splurge on some nicer pedals, like some Strymons or something.

This all sounds like exactly what I need. Just need to save up a bit more.

Thanks for the reply dude. Much appreciated.


----------



## Deadpool_25

FILTHnFEAR said:


> Sweeeet!
> 
> I have a Boss delay and chorus, and want a reverb as well for cleans, and have an eq for hi gain that I would use in separate loops. And ideally I want to have a few different delay and reverb settings without having to stop and adjust the pedals. So if I can control midi capable pedals with the Invective footswitch as well, I will eventually probably splurge on some nicer pedals, like some Strymons or something.
> 
> This all sounds like exactly what I need. Just need to save up a bit more.
> 
> Thanks for the reply dude. Much appreciated.



No problem man. Hope you get your rig doing what you want. I have the big three Strymon pedals and they’re great for that kind of setup. Gets expensive but don’t need a lot more. And apparently Strymon made some of their smaller format pedals midi controllable now too. You might actually consider something like the HX FX, FX8, or similar.


----------



## bluffalo

Wow, so as far as I was aware, Galactic Music was the importer and distributor for Peavey in Australia.

I tried their website again to see if there was any update for the Invective for Australia and the website was broken.

Tried to call ((03) 8813 0241) and heard the message that they've ceased trading.

Wonderful.

I hope one day I'll be able to buy this amp.


----------



## TedintheShed

The Invective is starting to look very attractive to me. It seems to have a great master to accomodate for bedroom levels. I'm down to this and Revv.

Can channel 2 do old-school Metallica/Megadeth/Anthrax style thrash?


----------



## 7 Stringer

TedintheShed said:


> The Invective is starting to look very attractive to me. It seems to have a great master to accomodate for bedroom levels. I'm down to this and Revv.
> 
> Can channel 2 do old-school Metallica/Megadeth/Anthrax style thrash?



Had the Invective and a ReVv 120.

The ReVv is still here.

Thank me later.....lol


----------



## FitRocker33

7 Stringer said:


> Had the Invective and a ReVv 120.
> 
> The ReVv is still here.
> 
> Thank me later.....lol



This.


----------



## 7 Stringer

The Revv, the more i tweak it, the more awesome it is getting. To the point of me thinking about selling my Friedman BE100. It can get a very similar sound, but even better if you can beleive that. Not kidding.

Channel 4 with no aggression gets very plexi ish. Van Halen tones no problem!!!!

I have very high praise for this amp.


----------



## Deadpool_25

I’ve always been interested in that Revv 120. Seems like it could be awesome.


----------



## FitRocker33

I’ve owned a good amount of amps and since I got the revv it’s the 1st time I’ve said to myself “ I think I could actually be perfectly happy with JUST this amp”

The thought scares and excites me at the same time lol.


----------



## 7 Stringer

FitRocker33 said:


> I’ve owned a good amount of amps and since I got the revv it’s the 1st time I’ve said to myself “ I think I could actually be perfectly happy with JUST this amp”
> 
> 
> The thought scares and excites me at the same time lol.




Yup, i feel the same way. I have owned so many amps it is crazy. I always come back to my 5150II. Compared it with the Revv and the Revv gets that tone, and even better.

Only amp that is very distinct and hard to duplicate is mu VHT UL. That amp is special. Not better that the Revv, just has its own particular voice.

But in the end, if it would come down to owning just one amp. The ReVv would be IT.

I have it setup in WDW with a G system. Every function assigned to a switch. Best setup i ever had.

Here is a pic for reference.


----------



## nedheftyfunk

bluffalo said:


> Wow, so as far as I was aware, Galactic Music was the importer and distributor for Peavey in Australia.
> 
> I tried their website again to see if there was any update for the Invective for Australia and the website was broken.
> 
> Tried to call ((03) 8813 0241) and heard the message that they've ceased trading.
> 
> Wonderful.
> 
> I hope one day I'll be able to buy this amp.



I have no idea if there are import taxes or vat, but Thomann, the big online retailer based in Germany, have them in stock for 2,600 AUD and ship to Australia for 80 AUD.


----------



## Meeotch

I think enough has been said on the Invective, maybe we should just turn this into a Revv thread  Only 3 for months wait for me


----------



## narad

I'm a little surprised because from youtube clips the Revv seems to me to have much more Mesa DNA than Peavey, and here everyones saying it's better instead of just apples/oranges?


----------



## FitRocker33

narad said:


> I'm a little surprised because from youtube clips the Revv seems to me to have much more Mesa DNA than Peavey, and here everyones saying it's better instead of just apples/oranges?



I don’t think the revv has Mesa OR Peavey DNA to be honest. It’s not compressed like a 
5150 or saggy and boomy like a recto can be. I’m not sure what amp I would compare it to but I’m sure somebody here might be able to.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

narad said:


> I'm a little surprised because from youtube clips the Revv seems to me to have much more Mesa DNA than Peavey, and here everyones saying it's better instead of just apples/oranges?


I thought the same thing (that the revv had some recto/mark vibes to it) but from what zimbloth and others have told me it's more in the vein of an SLO with a hint of uberschall


----------



## crankyrayhanky

Put me in the I love my Revv amp club- it is astounding! 

I still look at others like Invective but likely to stay with just Revv & Kemper & be super happy


----------



## narad

Do any Invective hands-on people prefer a 5150/6505 in any way?


----------



## Deadpool_25

narad said:


> Do any Invective hands-on people prefer a 5150/6505 in any way?



I suppose I like the 5150 a little better for its old-school simplicity. I also like its generally darker tonality on the lead channel, though the Invective’s high end is certainly tameable.


----------



## oneblackened

KnightBrolaire said:


> I thought the same thing (that the revv had some recto/mark vibes to it) but from what zimbloth and others have told me it's more in the vein of an SLO with a hint of uberschall


 Revv and KSR to me both share that kind of "uberschall plus SLO" thing but the KSRs I've tried tend towards the Uber and the Revvs tend more toward the SLO (to me). 

As for the Invective, it's kinda like a modernized 6505+, to me. It'd actually basically be my ideal amp if not for the fact that it's nearing KSR prices for a Peavey.


----------



## bracky

Honestly I think it could use a mud flap girl or two on the front panel.


----------



## katsumura78

oneblackened said:


> Revv and KSR to me both share that kind of "uberschall plus SLO" thing but the KSRs I've tried tend towards the Uber and the Revvs tend more toward the SLO (to me).
> 
> As for the Invective, it's kinda like a modernized 6505+, to me. It'd actually basically be my ideal amp if not for the fact that it's nearing KSR prices for a Peavey.



Well I did have an Orthos mkII and kept my invective so Lol KSR makes a great amp but the sound was stuck in 80’s hair metal land. Again not bashing it but it’s not the best amp for today’s heavy tones. I think there’s a dealer on eBay selling invectives for 1400 shipped new? That’s not bad for how much amp you get.


----------



## Miek

narad said:


> Do any Invective hands-on people prefer a 5150/6505 in any way?


the quality of life and Swiss army knife features on the invective are very nice but sometimes I do miss my 6505+ and jsx


----------



## narad

Miek said:


> the quality of life and Swiss army knife features on the invective are very nice but sometimes I do miss my 6505+ and jsx



Anything you're missing tonally?


----------



## FILTHnFEAR

Miek said:


> the quality of life and Swiss army knife features on the invective are very nice but sometimes I do miss my 6505+ and jsx



I'm with Narad, what is it you're missing from those amps?

As of now the plan is an Invective brand new at tax time unless I find another used before then. I just missed out on one from GC for $1500 because I hesitated for a day and it sold.

The built in gate, boosts, midi footswitch, and dual fx loops are of great interest as I'd love to get rid of my OD and gate and just have whatever few pedals I use in the loops on top of my amp instead of on the floor in front of me. 

Also negating the need for an expensive midi switching system for my pedals/amp channels and a giant pedal board for it all.

Wish I could try before I buy but that's not very likely. 

How tight can the boost get on the gain channels? I'm not trying to djent or play tech death so it doesn't need to be ultra tight, but enough so that I can ditch my OD pedal, which I don't always use anyway.

How noisey are the fx loops with a few pedals in them? 

Is it really just a tweaked, clearer, more refined 6505(+) as advertised? I want a mix of pissed off/aggressive tone but with good note clarity/separation. Versatility, not just a death machine. Haha

Any and all opinions welcome. Thanks.


----------



## bracky

They are being sold brand new for $1,400 on eBay. 8 available right now.


----------



## Miek

narad said:


> Anything you're missing tonally?


it's hard to put it down to anything in particular, and it may just be I need time to get acquainted with the amp. I can't a/b then against each other or even use the same of or guitar, but it just has a different feel.
a small strike against the invective that I can be objective about is the lack of separate eq for channel 2 and 3


----------



## Meeotch

bracky said:


> They are being sold brand new for $1,400 on eBay. 8 available right now.



Man that is tempting, but at this rate in a year or two they will be going for 1K used.


----------



## budda

109 pages?

6534+ or gtfo. Those who know, know.


----------



## bulb

budda said:


> 109 pages?
> 
> 6534+ or gtfo. Those who know, know.


Ew, the 6534+ is no bueno. EL34s sound terrible with a 5150 style Preamp, the tone has the consistency of a wet sandwich. Same goes for the 5153 EL34 variants.


----------



## Beheroth

bulb said:


> Ew, the 6534+ is no bueno. EL34s sound terrible with a 5150 style Preamp, the tone has the consistency of a wet sandwich. Same goes for the 5153 EL34 variants.



we need a dislike button


----------



## budda

bulb said:


> Ew, the 6534+ is no bueno. EL34s sound terrible with a 5150 style Preamp, the tone has the consistency of a wet sandwich. Same goes for the 5153 EL34 variants.



I strongly disagree. And that's why Peavey makes both


----------



## cwhitey2

bulb said:


> ... the tone has the consistency of a wet sandwich...


----------



## FitRocker33

Just for the record, the last monuments album was largely tracked using a 6534 with an eq pedal and a fortin grind. Don’t think it sounded bad at all in the mix.


----------



## Nitrobattery

I'm about to do a demo video for a retailer's YouTube channel. Do any of you guys have anything that you want to see/hear that you're still curious about 110 pages later?  

For the mods, is it cool to post the video here when I'm done?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Nitrobattery said:


> I'm about to do a demo video for a retailer's YouTube channel. Do any of you guys have anything that you want to see/hear that you're still curious about 110 pages later?
> 
> For the mods, is it cool to post the video here when I'm done?


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Nitrobattery said:


> I'm about to do a demo video for a retailer's YouTube channel. Do any of you guys have anything that you want to see/hear that you're still curious about 110 pages later?
> 
> For the mods, is it cool to post the video here when I'm done?


Yeah, the brown sound and 80s hair metal.

Also, Stevie Ray Vaughan.


----------



## Werecow

Nitrobattery said:


> I'm about to do a demo video for a retailer's YouTube channel. Do any of you guys have anything that you want to see/hear that you're still curious about 110 pages later?
> 
> For the mods, is it cool to post the video here when I'm done?



I want to hear a slightly out of tune cover of Enter Sandman with the palm-muted sections played incorrectly, with the gain, bass, and treble dimed, and the mids on zero on the amp


----------



## narad

Nitrobattery said:


> I'm about to do a demo video for a retailer's YouTube channel. Do any of you guys have anything that you want to see/hear that you're still curious about 110 pages later?



I want to hear as much classic 5150 as possible. Basically the dilemma is -- get a used 5150 for $500-600, or a used invective for $1200 or so. Even though I'm 100% chasing classic 5150 sounds, I kind of don't like the thought of a beat-up 20+ yr old amp with a spotty history. But if the Invective can't really nail it, then the choice is clear to me -- I already have some full-featured modern metal amps, so the suite of invective features is not a huge selling point.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

narad said:


> I want to hear as much classic 5150 as possible. Basically the dilemma is -- get a used 5150 for $500-600, or a used invective for $1200 or so. Even though I'm 100% chasing classic 5150 sounds, I kind of don't like the thought of a beat-up 20+ yr old amp with a spotty history. But if the Invective can't really nail it, then the choice is clear to me -- I already have some full-featured modern metal amps, so the suite of invective features is not a huge selling point.


Good point. I think it would've been a bigger selling point in 2005 after Peavey decided not to renew Eddie's contract.


----------



## Nitrobattery

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Yeah, the brown sound and 80s hair metal.
> 
> Also, Stevie Ray Vaughan.



I spent about two hours with several guitars yesterday and a bunch of IR's, and am planning on doing some rock stuff on a Les Paul with low output Alinco 2 pickups, some Van Halen-esque stuff on a Strat with an overwound PAF style pickup in the bridge, some tight Metallica-esque stuff on a mahogany/maple guitar with EMG's, some downtuned Machine Head/Killswitch Engage type stuff with EMG's, and then some more modern high gain with a fairly high output passive pickup in a basswood/maple guitar. My plan was to use Greenbacks, V30's, H75's and then blends of the speakers so people could hopefully get a good idea of what it would sound like through whatever cab they have. 



narad said:


> I want to hear as much classic 5150 as possible. Basically the dilemma is -- get a used 5150 for $500-600, or a used invective for $1200 or so. Even though I'm 100% chasing classic 5150 sounds, I kind of don't like the thought of a beat-up 20+ yr old amp with a spotty history. But if the Invective can't really nail it, then the choice is clear to me -- I already have some full-featured modern metal amps, so the suite of invective features is not a huge selling point.



For what its worth, here's an old incarnation of one of my own rigs. It was a 6505, an 8 space rack, a Quilter Aviator head (clean amp), a Radial ToneBone Headbone, an overdrive pedal, a noise gate, a power conditioner and an effects unit. Playing with the Invective, I just stuck an Eventide H9 in one of the Invective's effects loops (powered by the amp), plugged straight into the front of the amp and was pretty much done. I've had a bunch of 5150's/6505's over the years, and when I cranked the Invective up, I just sort of went, "Yep, that's the sound". Not trying to steer you one way or the other, but if you're after a 6505 with a clean channel, the Invective is less money and less hassle than what I used to lug around. If you don't need a clean channel, the 5150/6505 is a classic.


----------



## narad

Nitrobattery said:


> I spent about two hours with several guitars yesterday and a bunch of IR's, and am planning on doing some rock stuff on a Les Paul with low output Alinco 2 pickups, some Van Halen-esque stuff on a Strat with an overwound PAF style pickup in the bridge, some tight Metallica-esque stuff on a mahogany/maple guitar with EMG's, some downtuned Machine Head/Killswitch Engage type stuff with EMG's, and then some more modern high gain with a fairly high output passive pickup in a basswood/maple guitar. My plan was to use Greenbacks, V30's, H75's and then blends of the speakers so people could hopefully get a good idea of what it would sound like through whatever cab they have.
> 
> 
> 
> For what its worth, here's an old incarnation of one of my own rigs. It was a 6505, an 8 space rack, a Quilter Aviator head (clean amp), a Radial ToneBone Headbone, an overdrive pedal, a noise gate, a power conditioner and an effects unit. Playing with the Invective, I just stuck an Eventide H9 in one of the Invective's effects loops (powered by the amp), plugged straight into the front of the amp and was pretty much done. I've had a bunch of 5150's/6505's over the years, and when I cranked the Invective up, I just sort of went, "Yep, that's the sound". Not trying to steer you one way or the other, but if you're after a 6505 with a clean channel, the Invective is less money and less hassle than what I used to lug around. If you don't need a clean channel, the 5150/6505 is a classic.



Good to know. Do you actually have to crank it up? One thing I'm curious about is the biasing. Like if it was super close to a 5150, is the invective also biased as cold?


----------



## Nitrobattery

narad said:


> Good to know. Do you actually have to crank it up? One thing I'm curious about is the biasing. Like if it was super close to a 5150, is the invective also biased as cold?



The master volume actually works great. With the original 5150/6505, I always found the sweet spot on the volume was between 3 1/2 and 4....which is pretty loud through efficient speakers like V30's. With the Invective you can turn up the channel volume to get that big, muscular tone...but keep it at apartment volumes if need be. 

I haven't checked the bias, but there are bias points like on the 6505+. It's not my amp so I'm going to leave the bias alone, but I'm sure it's currently biased on the cold side and could be warmed up significantly if desired. 

I'll leave it there for now. I don't actually work for the retailer and am just contracted to do videos for them here and there, but I don't want to sound too spammy or make these answers sound like a sales pitch. In a nutshell, as a 5150/6505 enthusiast, it's a cool amp. I genuinely dig it.


----------



## feraledge

Nitrobattery said:


> In a nutshell, as a 5150/6505 enthusiast, it's a cool amp. I genuinely dig it.


That's really what I'm looking for. Perks over a 5150, ideally compared to a 5153. I love my 5153 50w a ton, but if the price was right and I had the option for a master volume and switches on the front with variable wattage, I'd jump ship in a second. The other stuff is bells and whistles to me.


----------



## Andromalia

Nitrobattery said:


>



The "pray there's no wind" rig.


----------



## Nitrobattery

Andromalia said:


> The "pray there's no wind" rig.



JENGA!


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Andromalia said:


> The "pray there's no wind" rig.


I hope it doesn't Break Like the Wind.


----------



## DudeManBrother

That’s what my old rig started looking like before I finally decided to get a Kemper for live use


----------



## FILTHnFEAR

Ordered my Invective. Should be here in a couple days. So stoked.


----------



## narad

FILTHnFEAR said:


> Ordered my Invective. Should be here in a couple days. So stoked.



Assuming you did enough bargain hunting to land a good price -- where'd you order from / what cost?


----------



## MASS DEFECT

YOOOOOOOO


----------



## narad

Makes sense.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Where the OD and noise gate at?


----------



## bracky

Sweet! It won't sway me from it's big brother though.


I wonder how it differs from the 5150mh.


----------



## Meeotch

Whoa. I hope there's some big glass in there.


----------



## bracky

If it's like the other Peavey Minis it's going to be 20/10/5 watt.


----------



## LeftOurEyes

bracky said:


> If it's like the other Peavey Minis it's going to be 20/10/5 watt.



The 6505MH is 20/5/1 watts


----------



## FitRocker33

Just another micro head where people will complain it doesn’t hold together at higher volumes ala small trannies and small glass.

Pass.


----------



## bracky

LeftOurEyes said:


> The 6505MH is 20/5/1 watts



I was close. 

I have one but always leave on high.


----------



## crankyrayhanky

It should have big glass in there or it's a fail


----------



## Deadpool_25

MASS DEFECT said:


> YOOOOOOOO


 Uhhh. Whut?!


----------



## Deadpool_25

I was almost wondering if fake, but @MASS DEFECT doesn’t pull that nonsense. 

https://peavey.com/news/article.cfm/action/view/id/944/cat/1/article.cfm


----------



## MASS DEFECT

So it's basically a 6505mh without a reverb but with noise gate and a tight switch.


----------



## Deadpool_25

I guess? How’s the clean on the 6505mh?


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Decent. But it could get thin. The reverb helps alot since it sounds better than expected.


----------



## Deadpool_25

A bit more info from Jon Fields (designed the Invective 120 and I’m guessing this one too):

“It's as close as possible to the big one. Consider that it has a 20W EL84 power amp.... that is the biggest difference. We couldn't fit all of the features in that package. The gate and boost are preset (footswitchable as a pair) with each having a panel switch and are exclusive to the gain channel. There's a "tight" switch on the same channel that does the gain reduction for the crunch (also fsw). Channel and loop are also on the floor. We chose to sacrifice the mid control to get the clean down to three controls. You get the same effect as the big one there, too, but scaled so not to clip the smaller power amp while retaining volume. The rear is identical to the other MHs. I think they'll be shipping in May.”


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

May of 2020.


----------



## Deadpool_25

Spaced Out Ace said:


> May of 2020.



Being a little optimistic there aren’t you?


----------



## Curt

I would have loved to see a 60 watt version or something, moreso than this. But I don't have a horse in this race. im still all about the Helix. This amp should do mega well with the bedroom djent crowd though


----------



## MASS DEFECT

And midi control. That's a nice feature.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Curt said:


> I would have loved to see a 60 watt version or something, moreso than this. But I don't have a horse in this race. im still all about the Helix. This amp should do mega well with the bedroom djent crowd though


It won't be able to djent. Need the big glass and huge 'formers.


----------



## Deadpool_25

Curt said:


> I would have loved to see a 60 watt version or something, moreso than this.



There’s already a 60 watt version


----------



## Curt

Deadpool_25 said:


> There’s already a 60 watt version


I've been fuckin sleeping then. Lmao

Disregard that then.

Edit: @Spaced Out Ace

You're probs right, but a lot of bedroom djent kids aren't probably going to know that.


----------



## narad

Curt said:


> This amp should do mega well with the bedroom djent crowd though



Is there any other djent crowd?


----------



## bulb

The mini head is so sick! Hopefully distro and availability will be better than the 120, but either way I’m so happy with that little cutie pie of an amp!


----------



## beavis2306

Still no word on availability in Oz


----------



## Deadpool_25

Hm. I was thinking I’d definitely get the MH but can’t really see the point since I have the 120 and it’s fantastic at low volumes.


----------



## Soya

If it's similarly priced to the 6505mh, it may very well be on my short list this year. I like the Invective sound but I definitely have no use for a full price, 120 watt head.


----------



## soul_lip_mike

I"m just crossing my fingers Peavey will release a white Invective head like the rig Misha showed in one of those youtube interviews.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Soya said:


> If it's similarly priced to the 6505mh, it may very well be on my short list this year. I like the Invective sound but I definitely have no use for a full price, 120 watt head.



I think I saw somwehre it's $699.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Lol price of mint-ish used 6505.


----------



## Bearitone

Andromalia said:


> The "pray there's no wind" rig.



Right?
Take the top handle off the 6505 and add some side handles so you can rest the rack gear on top


----------



## Soya

MASS DEFECT said:


> Lol price of mint-ish used 6505.


Used gear is cheaper than new gear? Who knew!


----------



## Curt

narad said:


> Is there any other djent crowd?


A few dozen bands or so that actually tour, yeah.


----------



## bluffalo

Deadpool_25 said:


> @bluffalo I asked in the FB group and John said “they should’ve been shipping there for a while now.”


Thanks for asking.... Too bad there doesn't appear to be any


----------



## Bentaycanada

Now this looks interesting...


----------



## USMarine75

But where is it made?


----------



## narad

Bentaycanada said:


>




Are corgis power-packed?


----------



## FitRocker33

Has nobody else noticed that all of the namm videos about the mini-vective don’t have any sound demos? (Unless I somehow managed to miss one despite my YT search)

Does it actually work or did they bring an empty chassis to the show? Lol


----------



## narad

FitRocker33 said:


> Has nobody else noticed that all of the namm videos about the mini-vective don’t have any sound demos? (Unless I somehow managed to miss one despite my YT search)
> 
> Does it actually work or did they bring an empty chassis to the show? Lol



Nah, one video had a brief clip -- it was posted above with Misha and the older guy holding the guitar (he plays), but the version here was cut out before the playing. It sounded good IMO. Didn't have that EL-84 sound a lot of the lunch box distortion amps have, maybe because it's a heavily preampy circuit.


----------



## technomancer

USMarine75 said:


> But where is it made?



Hey as long as they don't get busted swapping China for USA stickers again it'll be fine 

Seriously though this release was sort of a no brainer given the product line.


----------



## USMarine75

technomancer said:


> Hey as long as they don't get busted swapping China for USA stickers again it'll be fine
> 
> Seriously though this release was sort of a no brainer given the product line.



Yeah, I'm an admitted Peavey fanboy/whore... but that will always be a hilarious footnote in their history. Now I kind of want to order MIC and MIA stickers and overlap them all over the back of the chassis of one of my Peaveys just for the chuckles.

My fav is this:







I mean duh, >50% of "Made in China" products were "Designed and Engineered in America" 

https://www.minneapolisfed.org/research/economic-policy-papers/the-costs-of-quid-pro-quo


----------



## bracky

USMarine75 said:


> Yeah, I'm an admitted Peavey fanboy/whore... but that will always be a hilarious footnote in their history. Now I kind of want to order MIC and MIA stickers and overlap them all over the back of the chassis of one of my Peaveys just for the chuckles.
> 
> My fav is this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I mean duh, >50% of "Made in China" products were "Designed and Engineered in America"
> 
> https://www.minneapolisfed.org/research/economic-policy-papers/the-costs-of-quid-pro-quo




Apple does the same thing with their iPhones so Peavey isn’t alone in this. Except they go a step further. “Designed in California” lol


----------



## oneblackened

I actually tried the Invective mini. Sounds a lot like the bigger brother albeit with less of a thumpy low end. The gate is absolutely worthless on the cheaper one though, it's set super aggressive and there's no control for it.


----------



## AkiraSpectrum

oneblackened said:


> I actually tried the Invective mini. Sounds a lot like the bigger brother albeit with less of a thumpy low end. The gate is absolutely worthless on the cheaper one though, it's set super aggressive and there's no control for it.



Interesting. So it's kind of set as a 'hard gate' in terms of settings then? You can turn it off though right?


----------



## bulb

AkiraSpectrum said:


> Interesting. So it's kind of set as a 'hard gate' in terms of settings then? You can turn it off though right?


It's set to be fairly hard, about 6ish on the head, and yes you can definitely switch it off. Should be great for people who don't have gates, but if you have one you love you can always use that with the head!


----------



## bracky

I got my $1,400 ebay special today. Very mildly blemished but I sort of figured these must be b stock or something. Considering the discount it's no biggie to me. It's warming up now. 

It has a final assembly in USA sticker pasted on the back. I'm curious what's under it but I won't peel until my return window has past.


----------



## oneblackened

bulb said:


> It's set to be fairly hard, about 6ish on the head, and yes you can definitely switch it off. Should be great for people who don't have gates, but if you have one you love you can always use that with the head!


Yes, I mostly meant there was no threshold adjust.


----------



## bulb

bracky said:


> I got my $1,400 ebay special today. Very mildly blemished but I sort of figured these must be b stock or something. Considering the discount it's no biggie to me. It's warming up now.
> 
> It has a final assembly in USA sticker pasted on the back. I'm curious what's under it but I won't peel until my return window has past.



Well if it has a USA sticker it was assembled in the US. Peavey were never disingenuous about that. 

The only confusion was that since the chassis itself was from China, it had its own made in China sticker, but initially the amps were assembled in Meridian and then eventually production was moved to China so we could scale to demand.


----------



## prlgmnr

bracky said:


> It has a final assembly in USA sticker pasted on the back.



I promise not to do any more jokes about the sticker.


----------



## bracky

So I've gotten to try it out properly. It's everything I could want in an amp. From clean to mean it just sounds great. Warm, articulate, ferocious. I wish I could think of more words. It responds so well to my pick attack from soft to squeal it just nails it. I started with the clean channel which was great. But as soon as I hit boost I knew this thing was going to be the real deal. I could front a metal band with just the clean channel. It just has grunt even with the gain really dialed back. Then I moved to crunch and it's just an oh yeah this is awesome sort of sound. This is with the master barely cracked mind you. So yeah a win by Peavey. I hope they sell a ton of them.

My box says it was manufactured on 3/20/18. The blemish is very minor and looks like something hot was set on it melting the surface of the covering slightly. The guy still has a couple left so if your in the market...


----------



## Jacksonluvr636

IMHO - First, we absolutely need more clips.

I do find it very odd that there are virtually none. Are you hiding something Peavey? That is the skeptic in me talking but seriously why is there not an abundance of clips? I mean this was at NAMM right?

I saw the Misha vid with the other guy briefly playing and I also saw this one:[video]

All I have is youtube to go by here and first hand experience will be different but something seems off.

I can hear some of the Invective tone for sure, mostly in the mids. But I also hear a very round/warm/almost fuzzy thing going on in the low end that I have not heard with the Invective before. Could be the player, guitar, mic, what have you.

I would really like to see/hear more demos but until then I have to say they did not get this as close to the big dog as they should have.

Just being honest, not trying to slam anyone here but my money will be going to the JJ-20.

The price is definitely right on the Peavey MH. As the cheapest option of the mini trend, especially with all of the features it boasts but for me, I would rather pay a little more and get a little more.


----------



## bulb

Simply put, NAMM is one of the worst places to try to get clips.

These will be in stores soon, and should be readily available for you to try out for yourself.

Start with everything at noon, I think you will be pleasantly surprised!


----------



## Jacksonluvr636

bulb said:


> Simply put, NAMM is one of the worst places to try to get clips.
> 
> These will be in stores soon, and should be readily available for you to try out for yourself.
> 
> Start with everything at noon, I think you will be pleasantly surprised!


Fair enough and makes sense. Will definitely check one out.


----------



## feraledge

bracky said:


> So I've gotten to try it out properly. It's everything I could want in an amp. From clean to mean it just sounds great. Warm, articulate, ferocious. I wish I could think of more words. It responds so well to my pick attack from soft to squeal it just nails it. I started with the clean channel which was great. But as soon as I hit boost I knew this thing was going to be the real deal. I could front a metal band with just the clean channel. It just has grunt even with the gain really dialed back. Then I moved to crunch and it's just an oh yeah this is awesome sort of sound. This is with the master barely cracked mind you. So yeah a win by Peavey. I hope they sell a ton of them.
> 
> My box says it was manufactured on 3/20/18. The blemish is very minor and looks like something hot was set on it melting the surface of the covering slightly. The guy still has a couple left so if your in the market...
> View attachment 66586
> View attachment 66587
> View attachment 66588


I want to hear those amps together. STAT.


----------



## Deadpool_25

feraledge said:


> I want to hear those amps together. STAT.



You mean the 120 vs the mh?


----------



## mikah912

Deadpool_25 said:


> You mean the 120 vs the mh?



No, he means the Recto combo in the photo along with the Invective also in the photo.


----------



## Deadpool_25

mikah912 said:


> No, he means the Recto combo in the photo along with the Invective also in the photo.



Ahh. Yeah got it.


----------



## bracky

feraledge said:


> I want to hear those amps together. STAT.



I can make that happen. Gimme a day or two.


----------



## Nitrobattery




----------



## bluffalo

Jeez I just wish I could buy one.


----------



## bracky

So like a lot of you I finally got a chance to turn up that master volume and I'm like what the heck this doesn't get very loud. So I figured out how the master boost functions. This information should be highlighted in a faq or something. 

So what I discovered is the amp remembers the master boost setting even after you disconnect the footswitch. Some of us may have received our amps with the boost on and others boost off. Mine came boost off obviously.

So I primarily play in my "jam room" and usually don't have my amp footswitches hooked up. I am happy to discover I can turn the boost on the put the switch away until I desire to turn it back off which may be never. You get a nice gradient of volume using the master boost volume control on the back of the amp so I'm happy leaving it on all the time I think and just using the knob if I desire a big volume change.

And as a big Periphery fan I'm hoping to get the man to sign the back of my face plate sometime. Maybe Silver Spring in April.


----------



## Deadpool_25

bracky said:


> So like a lot of you I finally got a chance to turn up that master volume and I'm like what the heck this doesn't get very loud. So I figured out how the master boost functions. This information should be highlighted in a faq or something.
> 
> So what I discovered is the amp remembers the master boost setting even after you disconnect the footswitch. Some of us may have received our amps with the boost on and others boost off. Mine came boost off obviously.
> 
> So I primarily play in my "jam room" and usually don't have my amp footswitches hooked up. I am happy to discover I can turn the boost on the put the switch away until I desire to turn it back off which may be never. You get a nice gradient of volume using the master boost volume control on the back of the amp so I'm happy leaving it on all the time I think and just using the knob if I desire a big volume change.
> 
> And as a big Periphery fan I'm hoping to get the man to sign the back of my face plate sometime. Maybe Silver Spring in April.



Yeah there were some questions like “why the amp doesn’t get as loud as it should” a few months ago. We figured out that people (myself included) weren’t accounting for the master boost. If you want to compare its volume to another amp like a 5150/6505 for example, you need to set the post gains to 0, turn on and max the master boost, and also crank the master volume. Then slowly start raising the post gain. Doing that, you see just how devastatingly loud it can get past around 1 or 2 on the post gain (as any other 100+ watt amp). In such a long thread, that info is easily buried.


----------



## TedintheShed

God, I'm waffling between this and other amps...


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Nitrobattery said:


>





I'm sold. That clean demo did it for me.


----------



## Deadpool_25

TedintheShed said:


> God, I'm waffling between this and other amps...



What kind of music do you play? What are you looking for in a clean tone?


----------



## TedintheShed

Deadpool_25 said:


> What kind of music do you play? What are you looking for in a clean tone?



My favorite clean tone is an EMG S in the neck position through a Twin. 

I am old-school. I like to play everything from Zeppelin on, but my wheel house is thrash and nu-metal. I like Slipknot, Fear Factory, etc. too.


----------



## Nitrobattery

MASS DEFECT said:


> I'm sold. That clean demo did it for me.



Awesome, glad it helped!

FYI, if anyone wants one that was assembled in the USA, the amp in the video has been on their showroom floor while they've been selling new ones in factory sealed boxes. It has some scuffs from being moved around in the shop, but I was talking to the sales manager and they'll do a killer deal on the open box/floor model. You can contact them at the email address in the video's description box. If I hadn't just bought that black Suhr in the video, I would've turned right around with it myself.


----------



## Deadpool_25

TedintheShed said:


> My favorite clean tone is an EMG S in the neck position through a Twin.
> 
> I am old-school. I like to play everything from Zeppelin on, but my wheel house is thrash and nu-metal. I like Slipknot, Fear Factory, etc. too.



Okay, I definitely suggest you try one if you can to see how you like the clean. It is definitely warmer and rounder than a true fender clean. Which isn’t to say you’ll definitely like it less. It’s just a warmer, more compressed sound—less sparkly. It does take pedals well though, and the onboard drive (clean channel) is quite nice.


----------



## Deadpool_25

Nitrobattery said:


> Awesome, glad it helped!
> 
> FYI, if anyone wants one that was assembled in the USA, the amp in the video has been on their showroom floor while they've been selling new ones in factory sealed boxes. It has some scuffs from being moved around in the shop, but I was talking to the sales manager and they'll do a killer deal on the open box/floor model. You can contact them at the email address in the video's description box. If I hadn't just bought that black Suhr in the video, I would've turned right around with it myself.



Boynton is legit. That’s where I found mine (also thanks to @Nitrobattery).


----------



## TedintheShed

Deadpool_25 said:


> Okay, I definitely suggest you try one if you can to see how you like the clean. It is definitely warmer and rounder than a true fender clean. Which isn’t to say you’ll definitely like it less. It’s just a warmer, more compressed sound—less sparkly. It does take pedals well though, and the onboard drive (clean channel) is quite nice.



I usually compress my cleans some anyways, and sometimes add a chorus to emulate Hets Roland Jazz chorus clean tone.

Thanks!


----------



## AkiraSpectrum

Finally some good sound clips of the Invective MH!


----------



## narad

AkiraSpectrum said:


> Finally some good sound clips of the Invective MH!




Did that sound good? I thought it seemed much fizzier than the 120 demos I like.


----------



## AkiraSpectrum

narad said:


> Did that sound good? I thought it seemed much fizzier than the 120 demos I like.



A bit fizzy yeah, but that is probably because its at low volumes because of the NAMM noise restrictions. That would be my guess anyway.


----------



## Deadpool_25

The 120 can be fizzy too if the post gains are low. I like to keep them around 3:00 give or take. The post on the mh was pretty high in that video though so idk


----------



## sharedEQ

Peavy amp distortions always sound like there is a boost pedal in front with drive at noon.

I used to love that liquid gain all the way back from my first rockmaster preamp. Its a very "pressured" sound. Back in the day, most amps didnt have enough gain by themselves. But peaveys sure did! So easy to play!

But whenever i recorded a peavey amp, it came out sounding like 80s hair metal, no matter what. In room they sound great, but recorded, the mids have some kind of woof of fatness in the wrong place. Kinda like seeing a pic of your ex gf and realizing she wasnt as hot as you thought she was when you were together.

Im still waiting for a peavey that lets you turn off that input drive stage so you can get a nice open singing tone. Maybe the valve king.

Imo, all the invective bells and whistles are worthless if you cant turn off that first drive stage and get a clear, singing lead tone.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

sharedEQ said:


> Peavy amp distortions always sound like there is a boost pedal in front with drive at noon.
> 
> I used to love that liquid gain all the way back from my first rockmaster preamp. Its a very "pressured" sound. Back in the day, most amps didnt have enough gain by themselves. But peaveys sure did! So easy to play!
> 
> But whenever i recorded a peavey amp, it came out sounding like 80s hair metal, no matter what. In room they sound great, but recorded, the mids have some kind of woof of fatness in the wrong place. Kinda like seeing a pic of your ex gf and realizing she wasnt as hot as you thought she was when you were together.
> 
> Im still waiting for a peavey that lets you turn off that input drive stage so you can get a nice open singing tone. Maybe the valve king.
> 
> Imo, all the invective bells and whistles are worthless if you cant turn off that first drive stage and get a clear, singing lead tone.


So try a lower gain tube in either V1 or the first stage dedicated to the gain if it affects the cleans too much.


----------



## KailM

sharedEQ said:


> Peavy amp distortions always sound like there is a boost pedal in front with drive at noon.
> 
> I used to love that liquid gain all the way back from my first rockmaster preamp. Its a very "pressured" sound. Back in the day, most amps didnt have enough gain by themselves. But peaveys sure did! So easy to play!
> 
> But whenever i recorded a peavey amp, it came out sounding like 80s hair metal, no matter what. In room they sound great, but recorded, the mids have some kind of woof of fatness in the wrong place. Kinda like seeing a pic of your ex gf and realizing she wasnt as hot as you thought she was when you were together.
> 
> Im still waiting for a peavey that lets you turn off that input drive stage so you can get a nice open singing tone. Maybe the valve king.
> 
> Imo, all the invective bells and whistles are worthless if you cant turn off that first drive stage and get a clear, singing lead tone.



Get an EQ for the effects loop. Dial-out the fizz at the top end. Remove some 4-500 hz mids. Revel in the amazing resultant tone.


----------



## sharedEQ

KailM said:


> Get an EQ for the effects loop. Dial-out the fizz at the top end. Remove some 4-500 hz mids. Revel in the amazing resultant tone.



Peavey high gain amps layer so many gain stages you can't just "dial it out". I wish they let you remove a gain stage so it sounded like a traditional amp, then you could use whatever boost pedal has the signature you want.

The 500Hz hump, the "honk" is so 80s. I thought the invective would rework the EQ, but it sounds like a 5150.

I was a Peavey guy for so many years, now I'd much rather use an SD-1 into an amp with a tone stack I prefer.

I guess I should try one in person to see whats really going on, but it sounds like a 5150 to me


----------



## KailM

^^^Maybe they’re just not for you.

FWIW, I run 5751 tubes in both V1 and the phase inverter of both my 6505 and 5153. It helps the tone a lot, by taming the tendency to over saturate. I suspect the Invective would respond the same way.

Otherwise, with my EQ and an MXR M77 boosting it, preamp gain set to about “3” and a Black Winter bridge pickup, I’ve never heard a more brutal metal tone.


----------



## sharedEQ

Peaveys sound raunchy. I am more into the more modern articulate/open sound these days. I've been playing an Ironheart these past four years.

I was hoping the Invective with all the switching options would let you tailor the gain staging, make it sound like a classic amp by removing a clipping stage. Otherwise the options make it look like a great amp.


----------



## Deadpool_25

I got a couple of lower gain tubes (12AU7 maybe?) and there is SIGNIFICANTLY less gain with them both installed. I have it back to stock now because I was testing some stuff, but may put one of them back in.


----------



## TedintheShed

sharedEQ said:


> Peavey high gain amps layer so many gain stages you can't just "dial it out". I wish they let you remove a gain stage so it sounded like a traditional amp, then you could use whatever boost pedal has the signature you want.
> 
> The 500Hz hump, the "honk" is so 80s. I thought the invective would rework the EQ, but it sounds like a 5150.
> 
> I was a Peavey guy for so many years, now I'd much rather use an SD-1 into an amp with a tone stack I prefer.
> 
> I guess I should try one in person to see whats really going on, but it sounds like a 5150 to me



Didn't Misha say it was designed around the 5150?


----------



## Soya

sharedEQ said:


> Peaveys sound raunchy. I am more into the more modern articulate/open sound these days. I've been playing an Ironheart these past four years.
> 
> I was hoping the Invective with all the switching options would let you tailor the gain staging, make it sound like a classic amp by removing a clipping stage. Otherwise the options make it look like a great amp.



You were hoping an amp that was helped developed by a popular modern metal player would have options to make it sound less modern?


----------



## KnightBrolaire

lmao complaining about " too much gain" and wishing a 5150 based amp would sound less like a 5150. funniest thing i've read all day


----------



## sharedEQ

KnightBrolaire said:


> lmao complaining about " too much gain" and wishing a 5150 based amp would sound less like a 5150. funniest thing i've read all day


We all grow up some time. Used to love pv amps because i grew up in an era when amps didnt have enough gain.

On a dsl you can disengage a clipping stage with the od switch. Lots of high gain amps have that feature. Its different than turning down the gain knob. And its important if you want to use a boost pedal.

A 2000 dollar amp that does everythjng else should have tone n gain shaping options on par with a jvm.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

More honk, please. Thanks. I want an amp with a "honk" control.


----------



## Deadpool_25

TedintheShed said:


> Didn't Misha say it was designed around the 5150?





KnightBrolaire said:


> lmao complaining about " too much gain" and wishing a 5150 based amp would sound less like a 5150. funniest thing i've read all day



Yup. I AB’d it vs my 5150. On crunch and lead channels with BMTPR on 6 and gain on 4, the two amps are identical (Invective post gains about 3:00). /shrug


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

sharedEQ said:


> We all grow up some time. Used to love pv amps because i grew up in an era when amps didnt have enough gain.
> 
> On a dsl you can disengage a clipping stage with the od switch. Lots of high gain amps have that feature. Its different than turning down the gain knob. And its important if you want to use a boost pedal.
> 
> A 2000 dollar amp that does everythjng else should have tone n gain shaping options on par with a jvm.


Do the plastic control knobs on the JVM still flex enough to make you nervous they're going to snap right the fuck off just watching a demo video?


----------



## narad

sharedEQ said:


> We all grow up some time. Used to love pv amps because i grew up in an era when amps didnt have enough gain.
> 
> On a dsl you can disengage a clipping stage with the od switch. Lots of high gain amps have that feature. Its different than turning down the gain knob. And its important if you want to use a boost pedal.



It's a real shame. I bet a lot of classic metal albums that used 5150s would have had great tone if they could have used the boost pedal properly :-/


----------



## PrestoDone

Rofl...i am liking where this thread is going!


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

PrestoDone said:


> Rofl...i am liking where this thread is going!


You mean the JVM knob talk? I read in a Guitar Player review about the knobs being plastic. They quoted someone from Marshall, I believe, and explained it away as "well, with that many controls, it needs to be plastic" or some shit like that. I saw a review or two and could not believe how much flex there was when the person would adjust a knob.


----------



## sharedEQ

If the Invective is a 5150 with more switching options and modern control, why not just buy a 6505 and run it 4cm with a Helix LT? Roughly same price.

When you add a MFX to the mix, all the extra features of the Invective don't make too much sense. If the Invective was released 15 years ago, it would have been a game changer. 

These days, most amps are getting smaller because guitarists are doing more with digital. Really just need a single channel amp with a good FX loop.


----------



## TedintheShed

sharedEQ said:


> If the Invective is a 5150 with more switching options and modern control, why not just buy a 6505 and run it 4cm with a Helix LT? Roughly same price.
> 
> When you add a MFX to the mix, all the extra features of the Invective don't make too much sense. If the Invective was released 15 years ago, it would have been a game changer.
> 
> These days, most amps are getting smaller because guitarists are doing more with digital. Really just need a single channel amp with a good FX loop.



Because of the clean channel. From what I understand, the 6505 can't touch the clean channel of the Invective.


----------



## Deadpool_25

6505 4CM with a MFX gets you most of the way there. As @TedintheShed said, you’d also want a good clean (assuming the 6505 clean leaves you dissatisfied). Add an AMT F1 or similar, and you’re pretty much done.


----------



## sharedEQ

TedintheShed said:


> Because of the clean channel. From what I understand, the 6505 can't touch the clean channel of the Invective.



If the gain channel is in a switchable loop, you can just run a digital clean in a parallel loop.

Digital MFX all seem to do a great job with cleans. For that matter, when running through an actual tube amplifier, the gain models are also pretty stellar these days.

The Invective is like a dream amp built for someone whose perspectives were formed back in the 80/90s without considering all the advances in peripheral gear.

What I want in an amp (order of preference)

1) Built in power attenuator / wattage control to get power tube sat at lower volumes.

2) Gain channel with versatile tone stack and ability to take any boost pedal really well. (If it has an extra clipping stage, it needs to be switchable.)

3) Global presence and resonance controls.

4) Great FX loop.
-------------------------------------- (nice to haves)
5) Great clean channel

6) midi controllable

7) Built in high quality cab sim (digital/IR based?)


----------



## TedintheShed

sharedEQ said:


> If the gain channel is in a switchable loop, you can just run a digital clean in a parallel loop.
> 
> Digital MFX all seem to do a great job with cleans. For that matter, when running through an actual tube amplifier, the gain models are also pretty stellar these days.
> 
> The Invective is like a dream amp built for someone whose perspectives were formed back in the 80/90s without considering all the advances in peripheral gear.
> 
> What I want in an amp (order of preference)
> 
> 1) Built in power attenuator / wattage control to get power tube sat at lower volumes.
> 
> 2) Gain channel with versatile tone stack and ability to take any boost pedal really well. (If it has an extra clipping stage, it needs to be switchable.)
> 
> 3) Global presence and resonance controls.
> 
> 4) Great FX loop.
> -------------------------------------- (nice to haves)
> 5) Great clean channel
> 
> 6) midi controllable
> 
> 7) Built in high quality cab sim (digital/IR based?)



I don't understand. You're complaining that the Invective "built for someone whose perspectives were formed back in the 80/90s" yet earlier were complaining that you hoped it "would let you tailor the gain staging, make it sound like a classic amp by removing a clipping stage. "

Do you want it to sound like a modern amp or a classic amp?


----------



## KnightBrolaire

sharedEQ said:


> If the gain channel is in a switchable loop, you can just run a digital clean in a parallel loop.
> 
> Digital MFX all seem to do a great job with cleans. For that matter, when running through an actual tube amplifier, the gain models are also pretty stellar these days.
> 
> The Invective is like a dream amp built for someone whose perspectives were formed back in the 80/90s without considering all the advances in peripheral gear.
> 
> What I want in an amp (order of preference)
> 
> 1) Built in power attenuator / wattage control to get power tube sat at lower volumes.
> 
> 2) Gain channel with versatile tone stack and ability to take any boost pedal really well. (If it has an extra clipping stage, it needs to be switchable.)
> 
> 3) Global presence and resonance controls.
> 
> 4) Great FX loop.
> -------------------------------------- (nice to haves)
> 5) Great clean channel
> 
> 6) midi controllable
> 
> 7) Built in high quality cab sim (digital/IR based?)


so you basically want a modeler or a revv d20.


----------



## TedintheShed

KnightBrolaire said:


> so you basically want a modeler or a revv d20.



I was thinking the same thing.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Are we like

Forgetting that Misha pretty much designed this amp for himself? 

That's kinda the point of a signature head. 

Also jesus I didn't realize they bumped the price up to $2000.


----------



## Jacksonluvr636

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Also jesus I didn't realize they bumped the price up to $2000.



Lol wut?

Why raise the price, don't prices usually go down the longer an amp has been out?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Also jesus I didn't realize they bumped the price up to $2000.



Wasn't it $1900 before? Doesn't seem like a big deal. 

Also, GC/MF still has it at $1900. 

Did the MSRP change or just the MAP?



Jacksonluvr636 said:


> Lol wut?
> 
> Why raise the price, don't prices usually go down the longer an amp has been out?



Not if they're moving faster than supply.


----------



## bracky

Or you can pay $1400 from this guy. I’ve thrown my box away so you know I am happy with it. 

5 left

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5338014327&icep_item=123555505637


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

MaxOfMetal said:


> Wasn't it $1900 before? Doesn't seem like a big deal.
> 
> Also, GC/MF still has it at $1900.
> 
> Did the MSRP change or just the MAP?



MAP. SW has it for $1999 now.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

That _might _be a good price if it wasn't a bait and switch outsource to China deal.


----------



## bracky

Mine was assembled in the good ol USA. I think only some were assembled in China.


----------



## LeftOurEyes

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Also jesus I didn't realize they bumped the price up to $2000.



I thought I noticed a few Peavey things go up in price recently sometime when I wasn't paying attention. Like the 6505mh is $599 now instead of the $499 it was for the longest time.


----------



## bracky

Peavey. Not just a great sound. But a sound investment.


----------



## sezna

LeftOurEyes said:


> I thought I noticed a few Peavey things go up in price recently sometime when I wasn't paying attention. Like the 6505mh is $599 now instead of the $499 it was for the longest time.


I believe 6505s were price bumped too, theyre pretty pricey now.

_looks at his MIA 6505+ he got for $500 used_


----------



## narad

MaxOfMetal said:


> Not if they're moving faster than supply.



At the rate they been able to supply them, that's true for just about any level of demand 



sharedEQ said:


> What I want in an amp (order of preference)



Sick dude. Looking forward to it when the endorsement happens. We need more competition for the VHX. Please make it < $1500 also.


----------



## sharedEQ

narad said:


> At the rate they been able to supply them, that's true for just about any level of demand
> 
> 
> 
> Sick dude. Looking forward to it when the endorsement happens. We need more competition for the VHX. Please make it < $1500 also.


The age of the internet famous, bedroom guitarist was amply filled by Bulb, but alas has come and gone.

Too many fat kids living in their parents house making yt vids for there to be any novelty left in it. 

God forbid anyone is over 24, doesnt have a career and is still trying to "make it" as a "rock star".

Ewww. Just ewww.


----------



## Soya

Bunch of kids on your lawn right now, huh?


----------



## narad

These kids with their guitar music. And their video games. And their guitar music about video games. Just makes me so...GRRRR!

Anyway, anyone looking down on social media guitarists need only look at Mateus Asato for a wake-up call.


----------



## TedintheShed

I'm 52 years old and came up playing thrash and hair metal, and I don't think or even "wish" the age of the "internet famous guitarist' has come and gone. My 20 year old daughter plays and introduced me to these folks. Technology will surely evolve the skill set but I think like other incarnations, it is here to stay.


----------



## soul_lip_mike

MaxOfMetal said:


> Wasn't it $1900 before? Doesn't seem like a big deal.
> 
> Also, GC/MF still has it at $1900.
> 
> Did the MSRP change or just the MAP?
> 
> 
> 
> Not if they're moving faster than supply.



Could it be tariffs?


----------



## Miek

sharedEQ said:


> The age of the internet famous, bedroom guitarist was amply filled by Bulb, but alas has come and gone.
> 
> Too many fat kids living in their parents house making yt vids for there to be any novelty left in it.
> 
> God forbid anyone is over 24, doesnt have a career and is still trying to "make it" as a "rock star".
> 
> Ewww. Just ewww.


???


----------



## soul_lip_mike

sharedEQ said:


> The age of the internet famous, bedroom guitarist was amply filled by Bulb, but alas has come and gone.
> 
> Too many fat kids living in their parents house making yt vids for there to be any novelty left in it.
> 
> God forbid anyone is over 24, doesnt have a career and is still trying to "make it" as a "rock star".
> 
> Ewww. Just ewww.



'This was so cringe it wasn't even funny.


----------



## Deadpool_25

narad said:


> These kids with their guitar music. And their video games. And their guitar music about video games. Just makes me so...GRRRR!
> 
> Anyway, anyone looking down on social media guitarists need only look at Mateus Asato for a wake-up call.


 You forgot to mention their video games about guitar music.


----------



## Jeff

I’d love to give the little one a go. Hopefully some place local will carry it.


----------



## KailM

Jeff said:


> Hopefully some place local will carry it.



 That's a good one!


----------



## Deadpool_25

KailM said:


> That's a good one!



Lol. They’ve been stupidly hard to find.

Amazingly enough the Sam Ash near me has one (the 120). And the cab too. I was shocked to see it there.


----------



## Seabeast2000

Deadpool_25 said:


> Lol. They’ve been stupidly hard to find.
> 
> Amazingly enough the Sam Ash near me has one (the 120). And the cab too. I was shocked to see it there.



There's still one on the Tucson CL for $1450. Been up twice now for a month or two. 

I like that Sam Ash, they have more shit than the GC out here in SW Valley. A lot.


----------



## Jeff

KailM said:


> That's a good one!



Yeah probably. 

So this is basically a “refined” 6505, right?


----------



## narad

Jeff said:


> Yeah probably.
> 
> So this is basically a “refined” 6505, right?



I was hoping this was more like a 6505 with some built-ins and a decent clean, which was sort of my understanding, but otherwise someone let me know before I hunt down a cheap one.


----------



## Deadpool_25

narad said:


> I was hoping this was more like a 6505 with some built-ins and a decent clean, which was sort of my understanding, but otherwise someone let me know before I hunt down a cheap one.



That’s exactly what it is.


----------



## Jeff

Deadpool_25 said:


> That’s exactly what it is.



Cool. @bulb are you planning on using one of these MH's live, into a Torpedo or something? I could see this as a cool little live head for modest on-stage sound, then into a Torpedo or Suhr RL_IR into the board.


----------



## feraledge

sharedEQ said:


> God forbid anyone is over 24, doesnt have a career and is still trying to "make it" as a "rock star".


21 word story turns out to be among the saddest things I've read in my life. 
It's okay bud, get your show on. Get paid. Stack them tones.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

feraledge said:


> 21 word story turns out to be among the saddest things I've read in my life.
> It's okay bud, get your show on. Get paid. Stack them tones.


Bro... you've really let yourself go. Are you okay?


----------



## Soya

.


----------



## Korblod

Does Anyone know if there's a way to access the Master Boost via 'non-footswitch' on the Invective 120???


----------



## bracky

I have not found a way but it does remember where you set it after the foot switch is disconnected.


----------



## bracky

It would be amazing if Peavey or a third party came up with a Bluetooth module that plugged into the midi footswitch connector allowing us to use a android or ios device to control the amp.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

bracky said:


> It would be amazing if Peavey or a third party came up with a Bluetooth module that plugged into the midi footswitch connector allowing us to use a android or ios device to control the amp.



They make generic Bluetooth to MIDI adapters, so I'm surprised no one has cobbled together an app for it in this context. 

Maybe they have. I haven't really thought to look into it. 

I was all about having control via phone/tablet until I tried a Line 6 AmpliFi and just didn't get along with it.


----------



## Deadpool_25

Korblod said:


> Does Anyone know if there's a way to access the Master Boost via 'non-footswitch' on the Invective 120???



MIDI


----------



## Soya

MaxOfMetal said:


> They make generic Bluetooth to MIDI adapters, so I'm surprised no one has cobbled together an app for it in this context.
> 
> Maybe they have. I haven't really thought to look into it.
> 
> I was all about having control via phone/tablet until I tried a Line 6 AmpliFi and just didn't get along with it.


Have you tried the Hughes and Kettner Spirit 200? Seems to be a good setup for Apple stuff.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Soya said:


> Have you tried the Hughes and Kettner Spirit 200? Seems to be a good setup for Apple stuff.



I have not. 

I just didn't like fiddling with a touchscreen as much as I thought I would. Took too much concentration to get just right, and required either both hands, a stand, or an awkward viewing angle.


----------



## Soya

Yeah I had aspirations of a Bias based iPad rig but got tired of tweaking it.


----------



## bracky

I was checking the bias in my Invective today and wow this thing really does look amazing with the guts exposed.
​


----------



## narad

bracky said:


> I was checking the bias in my Invective today and wow this thing really does look amazing with the guts exposed.
> ​
> View attachment 67414



Think that's just the back lol


----------



## prlgmnr

ah you got the rare model that doesn't have a country of origin sticker


----------



## bracky

It had one that said Assembled in USA. I peeled it off because it looked kinda cheesy like a return address label.


----------



## bracky

So I figured out how to control the Invective using my iPhone/ipad over Bluetooth. It requires an adapter such as the Yamaha MD-BT01. The possibilities are pretty cool.


----------



## Korblod

Hey Guys, I’m trying to get rid of that annoying humming* (the hiss when I’m not playing, dunno how to call it) of my high gain stuff on the Invective, and did a little research to find myself trying to decide wheter to buy the ‘ISP Decimator II’ or the ‘ISP Decimator II G String’, I’ve never used a Noise Gate before, and read that the ‘G String’ has a way to go in the Input* (or preamp or something like that) of the amp head as well as the Effect Loop, but since the Invective already has a Noise Gate on the Input* (wich I use mainly to get rid of the feedback) maybe I could be good with just the ‘Decimator II’ on the Effects Loop and save me that extra $100 bucks of the ‘G String’.

Any opinions on wheter to buy the ‘ISP Decimator II’ or the ‘ISP Decimator II G String’??, is the Noise Gate on the Invective good enough for removing feedback?, or should I buy the G String and not use the Invective Noise Gate??, or any other recommendations on Noise Gates would be appreciated.

P.d. I Use the Pre Gain on Channel 3 at lvl 4.5, and the Invective Noise gate at lvl 2 just for feedback.


----------



## Deadpool_25

The Decimator II should work just fine for that purpose, as should any other decent gate. I have an MXR Smart Gate and a Rocktron Reaction Hush that both work well for that. When playing at home, I kinda like the hush better since it cuts out hiss even while playing. It’s amazing how much difference it makes at relatively low volumes.


----------



## FILTHnFEAR

Korblod said:


> Hey Guys, I’m trying to get rid of that annoying humming* (the hiss when I’m not playing, dunno how to call it) of my high gain stuff on the Invective, and did a little research to find myself trying to decide wheter to buy the ‘ISP Decimator II’ or the ‘ISP Decimator II G String’, I’ve never used a Noise Gate before, and read that the ‘G String’ has a way to go in the Input* (or preamp or something like that) of the amp head as well as the Effect Loop, but since the Invective already has a Noise Gate on the Input* (wich I use mainly to get rid of the feedback) maybe I could be good with just the ‘Decimator II’ on the Effects Loop and save me that extra $100 bucks of the ‘G String’.
> 
> Any opinions on wheter to buy the ‘ISP Decimator II’ or the ‘ISP Decimator II G String’??, is the Noise Gate on the Invective good enough for removing feedback?, or should I buy the G String and not use the Invective Noise Gate??, or any other recommendations on Noise Gates would be appreciated.
> 
> P.d. I Use the Pre Gain on Channel 3 at lvl 4.5, and the Invective Noise gate at lvl 2 just for feedback.



The Decimator II is plenty.

I use a first gen Decimator in the loop of my Invective and it combined with the built in gate = total silence.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Bump because




Check out this wall of holy fuuck.


----------



## technomancer

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Bump because
> 
> View attachment 67772
> 
> 
> Check out this wall of holy fuuck.



Great looking power amps for the Axe III


----------



## Meeotch

technomancer said:


> Great looking power amps for the Axe III



Well he's got backups in case the Axe blows


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

technomancer said:


> Great looking power amps for the Axe III



I don't care if they're using unmodded MiT DS-1s in front of them, they look slick as fuck stealthed out.


----------



## FitRocker33

I wonder if theyre using an invective model in the axe III too


----------



## technomancer

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I don't care if they're using unmodded MiT DS-1s in front of them, they look slick as fuck stealthed out.



I was not kidding about the great looking part, that does look awesome  I know they want the brand prominent, but a black logo would make it look even better


----------



## Deadpool_25

Love the blacked out look.


----------



## Soya

Soooo we gonna get the Invective MH this year or no?


----------



## bracky

Deadpool_25 said:


> Love the blacked out look.



Yeah the blacked out chassis is awesome.


----------



## kevdes93

Soya said:


> Soooo we gonna get the Invective MH this year or no?



https://www.zzounds.com/item--PEVINVMH

Looks like a tentative early May release for the mh


----------



## Soya

What year though? (couldn't help it)


----------



## Seabeast2000

Soya said:


> What year though? (couldn't help it)



The Year of the Horse.


----------



## JesperX

kevdes93 said:


> https://www.zzounds.com/item--PEVINVMH
> 
> Looks like a tentative early May release for the mh



Hah, typical NAMM slippery release date. They originally say “Available in March, preorder now!” and then it slips and slips and slips and you can actually buy one in September.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Remember remember, the slippery release date of September.


----------



## Shoeless_jose

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Bump because
> 
> View attachment 67772
> 
> 
> Check out this wall of holy fuuck.



This picture on Instagram is like slight further zoomed out and it says "made in" in the top corner of that big Peavey banner, I'm guessing based on the red white and blue motif it doesn't say China... is this country of origin stuff still being misleading??


----------



## bracky

My invective had a nice red white and blue sticker on the back that said assembled in the USA. Seems pretty clear to me. Mostly imported parts assembled in the US.


----------



## FILTHnFEAR

bracky said:


> My invective had a nice red white and blue sticker on the back that said assembled in the USA.



Mine too.


----------



## bluffalo

Australian Update - 



Thank you for enquiring about the Invective 120 Head.


Pro Music Australia have only just been appointed the new Australian distributors for Peavey.


We are arranging our very first shipment as we speak, and have the Invective 120 on order.


Once we have confirmed shipping details I will be able to update you as to the ETA.


All the Best


Ian


----------



## AkiraSpectrum




----------



## beavis2306

bluffalo said:


> Australian Update -
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for enquiring about the Invective 120 Head.
> 
> 
> Pro Music Australia have only just been appointed the new Australian distributors for Peavey.
> 
> 
> We are arranging our very first shipment as we speak, and have the Invective 120 on order.
> 
> 
> Once we have confirmed shipping details I will be able to update you as to the ETA.
> 
> 
> All the Best
> 
> 
> Ian


Finally. Thanks for posting that. It's been so long that i don't think i'll bother now though


----------



## Soya

Over a year since they announced it, just now setting up a distributor now for a giant country? What a joke.


----------



## bluffalo

Soya said:


> Over a year since they announced it, just now setting up a distributor now for a giant country? What a joke.


Over 2 years...


----------



## Soya

Oh shit it has been 2 years, haha fuck everything


----------



## Miek

is it possible to record bass through this amp if you use the simulated mic out or is it still gonna run through the cab and ruin speakers?


----------



## PrestoDone

Got my hands on a two notes torpedo captor to pair with my invective.120 ....game changer....sounds crushing...


----------



## katsumura78

Put a big sky in the loop with the amp powering the pedal. Getting a ton of noise ! Anyone else have issues with that? Seems like the only pedal that it’s effecting so maybe I should hit up strymon on what the deal is.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

katsumura78 said:


> Put a big sky in the loop with the amp powering the pedal. Getting a ton of noise ! Anyone else have issues with that? Seems like the only pedal that it’s effecting so maybe I should hit up strymon on what the deal is.



Look at the power requirements of the pedal vs the power the amp is giving. It could be power hungry. Try plugging it with its separate power source.


----------



## bulb

PrestoDone said:


> Got my hands on a two notes torpedo captor to pair with my invective.120 ....game changer....sounds crushing...


I use mine with the reload and it's incredible!


----------



## katsumura78

MASS DEFECT said:


> Look at the power requirements of the pedal vs the power the amp is giving. It could be power hungry. Try plugging it with its separate power source.



It looks like the power requirement is met for the pedal, heck even Misha has a demo of the amp using the same pedal.


----------



## PrestoDone

bulb said:


> I use mine with the reload and it's incredible!


I liked the amp without the atenuatter but with its its a beast....pre gain 11 o'clock and post at 2 oclock....master vol at 3 oclock ...with the rest to taste ..crazy good amp..


----------



## Deadpool_25

katsumura78 said:


> Put a big sky in the loop with the amp powering the pedal. Getting a ton of noise ! Anyone else have issues with that? Seems like the only pedal that it’s effecting so maybe I should hit up strymon on what the deal is.



My Big Sky worked fine but my Timeline has a bit of noise powering off the amp. Not sure what’s up.


----------



## MetalHex

Curious about the noisegate on this amp? Sorry about my noobish understanding, but this gate is as good as having an, say, a ISP Decimator in front of it? How good of a job does it do? If I use no other effects and just use the built in boost and gate, i can play at live show volumes and have everything I need all in one amp I'm hoping?


----------



## FILTHnFEAR

MetalHex said:


> Curious about the noisegate on this amp? Sorry about my noobish understanding, but this gate is as good as having an, say, a ISP Decimator in front of it? How good of a job does it do? If I use no other effects and just use the built in boost and gate, i can play at live show volumes and have everything I need all in one amp I'm hoping?



The built in gate takes care of feedback/noise from whatever is in front of the amp, but you'll probably want a separate gate in the loop as there is a fair bit of hum. Nothing unbearable but I put my Decimator in the loop for total silence.


----------



## MetalHex

FILTHnFEAR said:


> The built in gate takes care of feedback/noise from whatever is in front of the amp, but you'll probably want a separate gate in the loop as there is a fair bit of hum. Nothing unbearable but I put my Decimator in the loop for total silence.


Damn! Why couldnt they put two gates in this amp with another one in the loop? I want to be able to plug into the foot controller, and run that to the amp, withouy any other pedals at all. That should be the main goal, to need no other gate pedals I would think?

But now that i think about it, when i was playing with individual pedals, the chain was. Guitar tuner OD gate (or gate before the OD cant remember), and it was just fine handling pretty loud band practice volumes. So technically the gate was before the amp so therefore i could do fine with this amp's gate and have the same result, no?


----------



## bluffalo

I dunno about you guys but I have never owned or even used a gate before. I normally use a 6505 and 2x Orange ppc412. It's not noisy, there's no hum and hiss and feedback ever. 
I play with the post at 4, so it's pretty loud volume wise. 

I can see the gate's usefulness for the effect for Ultra sharp palm mutes.... But for fixing feedback/hum? Really?


----------



## narad

bluffalo said:


> I dunno about you guys but I have never owned or even used a gate before. I normally use a 6505 and 2x Orange ppc412. It's not noisy, there's no hum and hiss and feedback ever.
> I play with the post at 4, so it's pretty loud volume wise.
> 
> I can see the gate's usefulness for the effect for Ultra sharp palm mutes.... But for fixing feedback/hum? Really?



Play with single coils near a computer and you'll warm up to the idea.


----------



## A-Branger

Im reaaaaaly GASing for the MH20 version. My GAS plan was to get the Peavey classic20 for the cleans, and get the Kraken pedal for 2 different types of dirt. But with the Invective kinda covers both grounds as having proper clean chanel, but also I would be saving some cash and it also has presence/resonance knobs over the classic head, so my GAS is doing its thing

now where I could find some $ for it?


----------



## MetalHex

bluffalo said:


> I dunno about you guys but I have never owned or even used a gate before. I normally use a 6505 and 2x Orange ppc412. It's not noisy, there's no hum and hiss and feedback ever.
> I play with the post at 4, so it's pretty loud volume wise.
> 
> I can see the gate's usefulness for the effect for Ultra sharp palm mutes.... But for fixing feedback/hum? Really?


 With volumes that loud, you must have a 100ft cable and your standing outside your house to not have feedback with any guitar/amp. 

Or you are just straight trolling


----------



## bluffalo

MetalHex said:


> With volumes that loud, you must have a 100ft cable and your standing outside your house to not have feedback with any guitar/amp.
> 
> Or you are just straight trolling



Nope. Green channel, crunch button, pre at 3 on the dial, bass 2, mid 10, treb 6, post at 4, res and pres 7. Cable is I'm guessing 5 metre.


----------



## trem licking

when i played my 5150 II at practice/gig volume, i never had any issues with hum or feedback either. volume usually between 3-4 and red channel gain at 5-6. not terribly far away from the amp either.


----------



## JesperX

bluffalo said:


> I dunno about you guys but I have never owned or even used a gate before. I normally use a 6505 and 2x Orange ppc412. It's not noisy, there's no hum and hiss and feedback ever.
> I play with the post at 4, so it's pretty loud volume wise.
> 
> I can see the gate's usefulness for the effect for Ultra sharp palm mutes.... But for fixing feedback/hum? Really?



You must’ve got the magic one


----------



## ATRguitar91

JesperX said:


> You must’ve got the magic one


I run pretty low gain and a 12AT7 in the first gain stage on my 6505. It's certainly possible to run it sans gate without having unbearable feedback/hum, but it's by no means silent and there's no way I'd perform like that.


----------



## MetalHex

I have to ask this again, why didnt they put two noisegates in this amp, is it impractical? Would it not eliminate even more noise thus eliminating the need for an external gate?

IMO, the perfect amp should be one that has built in boost and gates so there would be no need for extra pedals to do what the amp could already do.

Has anyone played this amp at loud practice/show volumes and have been satisfied with just the built in OD and nothing else?

I mean, if you are a minimalist like myself who has nothing in the FX loop, then the one gate this amp has should work perdectly, no?


----------



## PrestoDone

MetalHex said:


> I have to ask this again, why didnt they put two noisegates in this amp, is it impractical? Would it not eliminate even more noise thus eliminating the need for an external gate?
> 
> IMO, the perfect amp should be one that has built in boost and gates so there would be no need for extra pedals to do what the amp could already do.
> 
> Has anyone played this amp at loud practice/show volumes and have been satisfied with just the built in OD and nothing else?
> 
> I mean, if you are a minimalist like myself who has nothing in the FX loop, then the one gate this amp has should work perdectly, no?




But more importantly....does it djent?


----------



## KailM

PrestoDone said:


> But more importantly....does it djent?



Hopefully not.


----------



## Meeotch

MetalHex said:


> IMO, the perfect amp should be one that has built in boost and gates so there would be no need for extra pedals to do what the amp could already do.



You could look in to the Driftwood Purple Nightmare - built in gate and boost. Not sure if the gate is in front of the amp, but when I owned one it worked quite well. My favorite gate remains the Fortin Zuul.

Also don't forget there are the 9V DC jacks on the back of the Invective, so even if you do need a gate in the loop, everything remains pretty convenient.


----------



## AkiraSpectrum

MetalHex said:


> I have to ask this again, why didnt they put two noisegates in this amp, is it impractical? Would it not eliminate even more noise thus eliminating the need for an external gate?
> 
> IMO, the perfect amp should be one that has built in boost and gates so there would be no need for extra pedals to do what the amp could already do.
> 
> Has anyone played this amp at loud practice/show volumes and have been satisfied with just the built in OD and nothing else?
> 
> I mean, if you are a minimalist like myself who has nothing in the FX loop, then the one gate this amp has should work perdectly, no?



If I'm not mistaken, you said in a previous post that you used to run a gate in front of your amp but not the effects loop, this is basically what is featured in the Invective. You should have a similar result.

A gate or noise reduction pedal in the loop is mainly for preamp gain hiss (not hum or feedback which is eliminated mainly from putting a gate before the preamp/input). So if you run a lot of preamp gain you'll have the hiss going on, but it seems like whatever hiss you had on your previous rig it didn't bother you, so if you're runnign a similar amount of gain on the invective you will likely be fine without a gate in the loop.
However, some amps are noisier than others, so you may find more hiss on one type of amp vs. another.


----------



## MetalHex

AkiraSpectrum said:


> If I'm not mistaken, you said in a previous post that you used to run a gate in front of your amp but not the effects loop, this is basically what is featured in the Invective. You should have a similar result.
> 
> A gate or noise reduction pedal in the loop is mainly for preamp gain hiss (not hum or feedback which is eliminated mainly from putting a gate before the preamp/input). So if you run a lot of preamp gain you'll have the hiss going on, but it seems like whatever hiss you had on your previous rig it didn't bother you, so if you're runnign a similar amount of gain on the invective you will likely be fine without a gate in the loop.
> However, some amps are noisier than others, so you may find more hiss on one type of amp vs. another.


That is correct I did say that. However even with the hiss (which is loud but I can stand it), theres still some feedback but that could be anything from a bad cable to standing too close to electrical interference, that when I stopped playing It would feedback. I've yet to solve the issue exactly. Of course I turn it up loud to keep up with the drummer. However if I can make due with that setup then I am sure I could make due with the invective and worse case scenario, I would have to get an external gate.

But I reckon in a live situation, at most venues, they will just mic my cab and there will be no need to crank it like i do at practice.


----------



## AkiraSpectrum

MetalHex said:


> That is correct I did say that. However even with the hiss (which is loud but I can stand it), theres still some feedback but that could be anything from a bad cable to standing too close to electrical interference, that when I stopped playing It would feedback. I've yet to solve the issue exactly. Of course I turn it up loud to keep up with the drummer. However if I can make due with that setup then I am sure I could make due with the invective and worse case scenario, I would have to get an external gate.
> 
> But I reckon in a live situation, at most venues, they will just mic my cab and there will be no need to crank it like i do at practice.



In my (past) experience playing a Peavey 5150 combo live (gigs and practice) a gate in the front should theoretically cover you for hum and feedback issues. If you were still feedingback even with a gate maybe you need to turn up the gate more; maybe you're running too much gain for the gate to reasonably handle; or, as you suggest there is interference issues or electrical issues with your practice space.


----------



## PrestoDone

New invective 120 demo


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Oh, god. I can't stand this dude. Sorry.

And for a guy who constantly shit talks and critiques other's guitar tones, those tones were buzzy and nasally as all hell.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

And that is why I LOVE my 6505+. That tone was too bloated and has too much gain. he could have turned down the preamp gain and compensated with boost and tone.


----------



## PrestoDone

I completely agree.....his tones was bad and the amp sounds much better than that


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Oh, god. I can't stand this dude. Sorry.
> 
> And for a guy who constantly shit talks and critiques other's guitar tones, those tones were buzzy and nasally as all hell.


glenn consistently has some of the worst tone out of all the bigger yt demoers besides tone king.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

He is more concerned about making the snare drum sound right.


----------



## MetalHex

Rabaea Massad(or however you spell his name) usually has great tone and his chops are killer though

Edit: he had reviewed the amp as well


----------



## PrestoDone

This one does it justice


----------



## Soya

KnightBrolaire said:


> glenn consistently has some of the worst tone out of all the bigger yt demoers besides tone king.


And Ryan Bruce.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Soya said:


> And Ryan Bruce.


and arnold


----------



## narad

It's just a shame that us guys that don't make demo vids have the best tones and know how to review amps properly. Strange.


----------



## Soya

That infamous Narad snark.


----------



## MetalHex

Soya said:


> That infamous Narad snark.


I've never met a snark that was always a couple cents flat


----------



## Soya

Right?


----------



## Flappydoodle

narad said:


> It's just a shame that us guys that don't make demo vids have the best tones and know how to review amps properly. Strange.



In all seriousness, I hear better mixes posted here all the time

And for someone who claims to be a professional sound engineer, Glenn should do better

And Tone King really is just a joke. The guy can barely play.


----------



## MetalHex

Where is the dude Deadpool? He's like the first guy on the planet to get one of these invectives and I am not sure if he ever posted a demo?


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Glenn always bangs on about someone's guitars being nasally, etc., and he puts out horrid shit like that. It blows my mind because you'd think he wouldn't talk shit given how awful his own tones are.


----------



## Meeotch

I think the problem with his tone is that he recommends cranking the post gain to 100%. I just got an Invective, and have noticed when you crank the post gain, shit gets really nasally. An EQ in the loop can help fix it, but without one you are left cranking the presence to compensate. I prefer right around 3 on the post gain.

Actually I've been a bit surprised by the tone controls on the Invective. On the gain channels, the treble control is more of an upper mids control. So with the post gain cranked, even cranking the treble leaves much to be desired, hence the need for an EQ in the loop. Dial this in right and the amp sounds killer! YMMV


----------



## MASS DEFECT

I think you also need to crank the volume on the back of the amp to open it up like a 5150. So that it operates like the OG ones with just the pre and post gain knobs. Master full and lead boost full is the real 5150 setting.


----------



## Meeotch

Cool I will try those settings out


----------



## Selkoid

Are there any invective mh clips out there? There's a video or two from the usual offenders but otherwise not much, are there just not many in the wild yet?


----------



## MetalHex

There arent even many Invective 120's in the wild yet nevermind MH's


----------



## PrestoDone

Lead sounds meh, crunch sounds really nice


----------



## MASS DEFECT

I knew I've seen an Invective during the Vio-lence show in Oakland. I was just too far back and hazed to make sure. 

Phil is using it solo.


----------



## Sogradde

Flappydoodle said:


> And for someone who claims to be a professional sound engineer, Glenn should do better


That's because he's shit. 
I got banned from a sound engineering group on facebook for criticising his modus operandi. He and his fanboys are trash.


----------



## thrashinbatman

Glenn can get good tones but he's pretty inconsistent. A lot of times the mixes I'll hear him put out are just like, yikes, but when he does nail it he really does.


----------



## Deadpool_25

There’s competition in the water.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Sogradde said:


> That's because he's shit.
> I got banned from a sound engineering group on facebook for criticising his modus operandi. He and his fanboys are trash.


I was pretty amazed by his shit tones for the Invective demo. I've not seen much of his crap, but he constantly bangs on and on about guitar tones, only to produce that nasally dog shit.


----------



## JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo

@bulb Those blacked out Invectives ever gonna hit the market or are they all fancy-special for just the Periphery boiz? I ask because Invective time may be coming soon for me. I want a blacked out one cos it's sexy.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

MetalHex said:


> Rabaea Massad(or however you spell his name) usually has great tone and his chops are killer though
> 
> Edit: he had reviewed the amp as well



Rabea's like one of the only good youtubers. 

Metal guitar "influencers" are shit for the most part. Bea and Ola are great, though.


----------



## viifox

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Rabea's like one of the only good youtubers.
> 
> Metal guitar "influencers" are shit for the most part. Bea and Ola are great, though.


Ola is great. I also like Stevie T, and Leo. They're kind of in different camps though.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Rabea's like one of the only good youtubers.
> 
> Metal guitar "influencers" are shit for the most part. Bea and Ola are great, though.


Eh... Ola ain't shit, but everything sounds like a 5150 or Recto when he plays. Not metal, but I prefer Brett Kingman.


----------



## Deadpool_25

OliOliver said:


> @bulb Those blacked out Invectives ever gonna hit the market or are they all fancy-special for just the Periphery boiz? I ask because Invective time may be coming soon for me. I want a blacked out one cos it's sexy.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Eh... Ola ain't shit, but everything sounds like a 5150 or Recto when he plays. Not metal, but I prefer Brett Kingman.



OTOH, I feel like Brett makes everything sound like a Plexi.  
I like Leon Todd though. Dude sounds great through everything. And he seems like the dude that makes videos just to. Same with Plague Scythe Studios.


----------



## viifox

Deadpool_25 said:


> View attachment 70362


Damn. That's pure sex.


----------



## Deadpool_25

viifox said:


> Damn. That's pure sex.



Thanks. After hearing that the black ones Periphery was using we’re done with just an overlay and some plexiglass, I decided I’d try to do it myself. I spent some time with Adobe Illustrator and managed, after a crapton of trial and error, to come up with a template. I had it printed on vinyl at a local place and then cut it out. If you look closely you can see it’s a DIY hack job but it worked out well enough lol.


----------



## MetalHex

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Same with Plague Scythe Studios



I actually really like this guys videos I find them really helpful. He explains the products in a not too conplicated way. He is bias towards the AX8 and he is creating a big GAS bubble for me by doing that.


----------



## bracky

Deadpool_25 said:


> Thanks. After hearing that the black ones Periphery was using we’re done with just an overlay and some plexiglass, I decided I’d try to do it myself. I spent some time with Adobe Illustrator and managed, after a crapton of trial and error, to come up with a template. I had it printed on vinyl at a local place and then cut it out. If you look closely you can see it’s a DIY hack job but it worked out well enough lol.




You did a nice job. Only you will know.


----------



## LeftOurEyes

viifox said:


> Ola is great. I also like Stevie T, and Leo.



Ewwww gross. I have never wanted to see someone get their faced smashed in as much as Steve T. Absolutely nothing good or funny about that D-bag of a human and his stupid face.


----------



## viifox

LeftOurEyes said:


> Ewwww gross. I have never wanted to see someone get their faced smashed in as much as Steve T. Absolutely nothing good or funny about that D-bag of a human and his stupid face.


That's super.


----------



## viifox

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Rabea's like one of the only good youtubers.
> 
> Metal guitar "influencers" are shit for the most part. Bea and Ola are great, though.


You know a youtuber who genuinely kicks ass? Ben Eller. That mofo can play, and his lessons are actually useful.


----------



## bracky

Uncle Ben is a great resource. But I do guiltily enjoy the occasional Stevie T video.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

viifox said:


> You know a youtuber who genuinely kicks ass? Ben Eller. That mofo can play, and his lessons are actually useful.



Ben eller is fucking awesome all around. Great playing, great sound, great advice ( playing, tone, setup/tech, tone etc), and great dude.
Both Ben and Bea are the 2 best youtubers and nothing can tell me otherwise.

Edit: I was gonna say Axe Hacks was great as well, but his channel went dead like 2 years ago.


----------



## mnemonic

I should look into some of those new channels, Ola is the only one I watch, but since he started doing the paid subscriber thing, it’s been getting kinda weird.


----------



## viifox

mnemonic said:


> I should look into some of those new channels, Ola is the only one I watch, but since he started doing the paid subscriber thing, it’s been getting kinda weird.


Definitely Check out Ben Eller (he's been around for a while, actually). He knows his shit, and is entertaining. If i could only recommend one youtuber for guitar lessons, it would be him. Super underrated, imo.


----------



## MetalHex

I know hes not a metal guy but i always enjoy watching Philip Mcknight.

Oh and Troglys guitar show. He basically gives a history lesson on every guitar he shows, with such enthusiasm and conviction.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

"Unfair competition." 

I knew it was wrong to give Gibson's new CEO too much credit and leeway. I mean is Gibson really that mad that Schenker plays a Dean and not a Gibson? Or perhaps it's because Gibson can't really release a James Hetfield signature V/Explorer because he's signed to ESP?

But seriously, though. Keep milking that Slash and Iommi dollar, scumbags.


----------



## viifox

MetalHex said:


> I know hes not a metal guy but i always enjoy watching Philip Mcknight.



He's a likeable guy. Generally knows what he's talking about. Love his Fender "history" videos.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Sorry, but not a fan of McKnight at all.


----------



## Matt08642

Spaced Out Ace said:


> I mean is Gibson really that mad that Schenker plays a Dean and not a Gibson?



Yes. Gibson is literally stuck in like 1979 at most. They still tout the tune-o-matic as a big wow factor and selling point. The only thing they've "innovated" in the last.... 50 years? is probably those shitty robot tuners everyone hated

That being said, they make some very good pickups


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Matt08642 said:


> Yes. Gibson is literally stuck in like 1979 at most. They still tout the tune-o-matic as a big wow factor and selling point. The only thing they've "innovated" in the last.... 50 years? is probably those shitty robot tuners everyone hated
> 
> That being said, they make some very good pickups


Yeah, but with the competition, I'm sure most would rather use SD, DiMarzio, Wilde (Bill Lawrence), and the hundreds of other companies out there.


----------



## thrashinbatman

Spaced Out Ace said:


> "Unfair competition."
> 
> I knew it was wrong to give Gibson's new CEO too much credit and leeway. I mean is Gibson really that mad that Schenker plays a Dean and not a Gibson? Or perhaps it's because Gibson can't really release a James Hetfield signature V/Explorer because he's signed to ESP?
> 
> But seriously, though. Keep milking that Slash and Iommi dollar, scumbags.


He apparently approached them to do the Iron Cross as a signature and they told him to pound sand, so they just don't know what they're doing.


And while I like Trogly, it fascinates me that he traffics so many guitars and is like a Gibson historian but doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground when it comes to amps.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

thrashinbatman said:


> He apparently approached them to do the Iron Cross as a signature and they told him to pound sand, so they just don't know what they're doing.
> 
> 
> And while I like Trogly, it fascinates me that he traffics so many guitars and is like a Gibson historian but doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground when it comes to amps.


Maybe they weren't into the Iron Cross because of what it sorta relates to, but ESP doesn't seem to give a shit. (Lynch, Hetfield, Hanneman)

In fairness, Marshall has some rather confusing 70s/80s amp models.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

thrashinbatman said:


> He apparently approached them to do the Iron Cross as a signature and they told him to pound sand, so they just don't know what they're doing.



Actually there was supposedly one in the works. I BELIEVE James actually had a replica prototype ready to go. But Gibson fucked it up somehow, or James pissed them off. Idk. I just know sometime between 2008 - 2009, James was using a LOT of Gibson stuff, then suddenly drops them like a fucking hot rake and goes back to using strictly ESP and KL.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Actually there was supposedly one in the works. I BELIEVE James actually had a replica prototype ready to go. But Gibson fucked it up somehow, or James pissed them off. Idk. I just know sometime between 2008 - 2009, James was using a LOT of Gibson stuff, then suddenly drops them like a fucking hot rake and goes back to using strictly ESP and KL.



I know it's easy to blame Gibson, but there has to be more to it. 

Consider when members of the same band have no problems with getting signature models made. Two recent examples are Kirk and Bill from Metallica and Mastodon vs James and Brent. Same band, same guitar company, yet very different outcomes. The only variable being the artist themselves.


----------



## USMarine75

Gibson in this thread too? lol

I'm starting to think whatever their doing must be right.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

USMarine75 said:


> Gibson in this thread too? lol
> 
> I'm starting to think whatever their doing must be right.



Drama grabs attention. 



MaxOfMetal said:


> I know it's easy to blame Gibson, but there has to be more to it.
> 
> Consider when members of the same band have no problems with getting signature models made. Two recent examples are Kirk and Bill from Metallica and Mastodon vs James and Brent. Same band, same guitar company, yet very different outcomes. The only variable being the artist themselves.



Judging by what Brent said, Bill tried to be a super patient guy and I guess he was trying to hope for the best outcome (IE: kiss Gibson's ass in his own worlds ), but seems like he had enough as well. He eventually took Brent's side and said Gibson is hard as shit to deal with and was becoming a shitshow.

Also on his Instagram, James gave the same reasons as Bill eventually did as to why he left. AR was a bitch to communicate with and it took forever to get changes made. Also claims the Kirk V came to be because they went to him after the Iron Cross debacle.


----------



## Seabeast2000

USMarine75 said:


> Gibson in this thread too? lol
> 
> I'm starting to think whatever their doing must be right.



I wouldn't kick a Gibson out of bed for eating Cheetohs.


----------



## Deadpool_25

The906 said:


> I wouldn't kick a Gibson out of bed for eating Cheetohs.



That’s just because you love Cheetohs.


----------



## USMarine75

Matt08642 said:


> Yes. Gibson is literally stuck in like 1979 at most. They still tout the tune-o-matic as a big wow factor and selling point. The only thing they've "innovated" in the last.... 50 years? is probably those shitty robot tuners everyone hated
> 
> That being said, they make some very good pickups



But a large portion of their customer base doesn't want innovation. For an LP they want a '58-'60 burst with HB pickups. These are what sells:


















I own this and I've had more Gibson aficionados say the color belongs on a PRS not on a Gibson lol...





Anyways it doesn't mean other models don't sell. Personally I prefer the goldtop P90 look to a burst and that's what I bought:





But the sales numbers are what they are.


----------



## Lukhas

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Actually there was supposedly one in the works. I BELIEVE James actually had a replica prototype ready to go. But Gibson fucked it up somehow, or James pissed them off. Idk. I just know sometime between 2008 - 2009, James was using a LOT of Gibson stuff, then suddenly drops them like a fucking hot rake and goes back to using strictly ESP and KL.


I think I saved Hetfield's version of that story. Here it is.

Anyway, back to the Invective.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Lukhas said:


> I think I saved Hetfield's version of that story. Here it is.
> 
> Anyway, back to the Invective.


Kirk Hammett has a Gibson signature?


----------



## Lukhas

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Kirk Hammett has a Gibson signature?


Yeah, a run of 150 Custom Shop black Flying V, 50 of which were signed by the man himself.

http://aws2.gibson.com/News-Lifesty...Sealed-Delivered-The-Kirk-Hammett-Flying.aspx


----------



## thrashinbatman

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/KHAgdSgnV--gibson-kirk-hammett-flying-v

He did at one point, apparently. Nothing especially unique and very expensive.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Ew that button placement is disgusting. No wonder people copy their shapes and make them better. 

In other news, I REALLY should've kept that Hamer Vector.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Kirk Hammett has a Gibson signature?





Lukhas said:


> Yeah, a run of 150 Custom Shop black Flying V, 50 of which were signed by the man himself.
> 
> http://aws2.gibson.com/News-Lifesty...Sealed-Delivered-The-Kirk-Hammett-Flying.aspx





thrashinbatman said:


> https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/KHAgdSgnV--gibson-kirk-hammett-flying-v
> 
> He did at one point, apparently. Nothing especially unique and very expensive.



In retrospect you can kinda tell this seems like it was a plan B. A guitar that Kirk really didn't have anything to do with post-1984 after he got his Jackson and Fernandes guitars. I'm surprised they didn't make a sig based on his Les Paul Custom he used between 1988 - the mid 2000s.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> In retrospect you can kinda tell this seems like it was a plan B. A guitar that Kirk really didn't have anything to do with post-1984 after he got his Jackson and Fernandes guitars. I'm surprised they didn't make a sig based on his Les Paul Custom he used between 1988 - the mid 2000s.


Interesting that Kirk apparently used single coils for awhile.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Interesting that Kirk apparently used single coils for awhile.



Yup. Apparently a lot of stuff in the RtL era was done with this baby. His main fiddle until he got the Jackson.






Also if you watch THAT For Whom The Bell Tolls video, the final shot of Kirk is him playing this guitar.


----------



## USMarine75

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Interesting that Kirk apparently used single coils for awhile.



Well it's not like Kirk's guitar is _on _during rhythm parts lol.


----------



## Meeotch

USMarine75 said:


> Well it's not like Kirk's guitar is _on _during rhythm parts lol.



Ya know, this has always been something I wondered about. In live performances, Kirk is usually playing basic rhythm parts together with James. In the studio, are the rhythm parts literally all James?


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Meeotch said:


> Ya know, this has always been something I wondered about. In live performances, Kirk is usually playing basic rhythm parts together with James. In the studio, are the rhythm parts literally all James?


Pretty sure St Anger was both of them. There is probably some rhythm tracks from Kirk, but it's likely similar to Megadeth in someways. Dave, at least early on, played the hard left/right tracks, and had a track from Chris/Marty, etc. in the center, though probably a little mixed down. While Metallica likely doesn't do the same thing, it's probably similar. ie, 24 tracks from James, and 1 track left, 1 track right of Kirk, if that. Most of it is James though.


----------



## Lukhas

Meeotch said:


> Ya know, this has always been something I wondered about. In live performances, Kirk is usually playing basic rhythm parts together with James. In the studio, are the rhythm parts literally all James?


Until Re/Load it was all James. For example, Kirk isn't even credited on Nothing Else Matters! You can hear on isolated tracks from Re/Load that the right (Kirk) and left (James) track are actually quite different, unlike previous records. Compare and contrast:




EDIT: At least, Re/Load have certainly both Kirk and James playing the rhythms; not sure about the following records.


----------



## viifox

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Yup. Apparently a lot of stuff in the RtL era was done with this baby. His main fiddle until he got the Jackson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also if you watch THAT For Whom The Bell Tolls video, the final shot of Kirk is him playing this guitar.


Those were the days.


----------



## viifox

I love how this thread isn't even about the Invective anymore.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

viifox said:


> I love how this thread isn't even about the Invective anymore.








Dead meme, meet dead hype train.


----------



## Soya

Has anyone seen an Invective mini in the wild yet?


----------



## USMarine75

Soya said:


> Has anyone seen an Invective mini in the wild yet?



That species is native to China.


----------



## Werecow

Lukhas said:


> Until Re/Load it was all James. For example, Kirk isn't even credited on Nothing Else Matters! You can hear on isolated tracks from Re/Load that the right (Kirk) and left (James) track are actually quite different, unlike previous records.
> 
> EDIT: At least, Re/Load have certainly both Kirk and James playing the rhythms; not sure about the following records.



I've read that beforehand James would play Rhythm panned to one side with his guitar and whole rig, and then James again panned to the other side but with Kirk's guitar and whole rig.


----------



## Andromalia

That's the best off topic conversation I've read in years. XD


----------



## bluffalo

Still no word on being able to purchase an Inventive in Australia..


----------



## viifox

So with the Invective being MIC, can anyone chime in on the reliability? I'm pretty close to buying one, but that kinda worries me.


----------



## FILTHnFEAR

viifox said:


> So with the Invective being MIC, can anyone chime in on the reliability? I'm pretty close to buying one, but that kinda worries me.



I've got one of the "assembled in the USA" Invectives and haven't had any issues so far other than the LED for the lead channel going out, but that's an easy fix.

I've only had it a few months but I'm really happy with the quality and sound.

Edit: can't wait to try it with some KT88's.


----------



## beavis2306

bluffalo said:


> Still no word on being able to purchase an Inventive in Australia..



Dude, i was gonna chime in and say not true as i'm sure i saw one at Kosmic in Perth but i can't find anything now. I keep an eye out for em too but i'm kind of a bit shit off with how long it's taken.


----------



## bracky

My assembled in USA model is running great. No burnt leds.


----------



## MetalHex

@bulb are there any plans to make this a midsize 50w amp? I know the full size is 50w-able but its still the monster size and weight that it is. The mini version Im afraid wont have the same crushing balls gain at very loud band practices and shows...

Can we please get a standalone 50 w head or are there any plans to do this?

@Deadpool_25 how is the boost in this amp? Does it make it tighter like a TS style boost would?


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

MetalHex said:


> @bulb are there any plans to make this a midsize 50w amp? I know the full size is 50w-able but its still the monster size and weight that it is. The mini version Im afraid wont have the same crushing balls gain at very loud band practices and shows...
> 
> Can we please get a standalone 50 w head or are there any plans to do this?
> 
> @Deadpool_25 how is the boost in this amp? Does it make it tighter like a TS style boost would?


Do they even have a steady stream of the basic 100w model?


----------



## mnemonic

The guy who manages Randall amps distribution I think also works for Peavey.


----------



## Edika

mnemonic said:


> The guy who manages Randall amps distribution I think also works for Peavey.



I hope this is more of a tongue in cheek reply than a serious one otherwise nobody will get these amps lol!


----------



## Deadpool_25

MetalHex said:


> @Deadpool_25 how is the boost in this amp? Does it make it tighter like a TS style boost would?



On the crunch and lead channels, yes. The one on the clean channel is more of a gain boost.


----------



## MetalHex

Deadpool_25 said:


> On the crunch and lead channels, yes. The one on the clean channel is more of a gain boost.


That is to say that no other external boost is needed to cut bass and boost other frequencies then....great!

Yeah they a 50w model to bring the overall size and weight, and price down, yet still have a big enough sound that will retain its sound and blaringly loud volumes. They need to start mass producing them, yesterday. Why are they so scarce as it is already?!


----------



## FILTHnFEAR

Why do people think these are still scarce? GC and Sweetwater have had them in stock for a while. They pop up fairly often on GC used as well. It's where I picked mine up.

@MetalHex I feel no need for an external boost. It works really well with the lead and crunch channels. 

I really don't get the appeal for the MH. It lacks most of what makes it's big brother great. No midi means no presets(only boost and gate on the lead channel), no crunch channel, el84's instead of big glass, only 1 fx loop, no mid tone control on the clean channel. Not very appealing now that I'm used to the features of the 120.


----------



## MetalHex

FILTHnFEAR said:


> Why do people think these are still scarce? GC and Sweetwater have had them in stock for a while. They pop up fairly often on GC used as well. It's where I picked mine up.
> 
> @MetalHex I feel no need for an external boost. It works really well with the lead and crunch channels.
> 
> I really don't get the appeal for the MH. It lacks most of what makes it's big brother great. No midi means no presets(only boost and gate on the lead channel), no crunch channel, el84's instead of big glass, only 1 fx loop, no mid tone control on the clean channel. Not very appealing now that I'm used to the features of the 120.


To be honest I would only want boost and gate on lead channel as thats what I would use 99% of the time....so i wouldnt need crunch channel either. 1 FX loop is also fine considering a live situation because it keeps things minimal. The only thing for me is the 20w max concern if the place doesnt have a good PA and also at band practice. Though, most small bars and clubs mic up amps to the PA nowadays I think?

Still though I would feel safer with a 50w; its the sweet spot.


----------



## FILTHnFEAR

@MetalHex the 20 watts should be a concern unless you're certain you can mic up. 

Ime these 20w lunchbox heads don't have the headroom for breakup free cleans or to keep the low end from falling apart at band level volumes. 

2 friends were very disappointed when their lunchbox heads(6505mh & JCA20h) were buried by 100w heads and drums. Despite being warned.

50watts should do much better. Why not try a 5153 50 watter?


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Why bother with less wattage at all? The 50w is going to be around 3dB less volume wise than the 100w. You could get that amount of volume decrease from trading your 412 in for a 212.


----------



## MetalHex

FILTHnFEAR said:


> @MetalHex the 20 watts should be a concern unless you're certain you can mic up.
> 
> Ime these 20w lunchbox heads don't have the headroom for breakup free cleans or to keep the low end from falling apart at band level volumes.
> 
> 2 friends were very disappointed when their lunchbox heads(6505mh & JCA20h) were buried by 100w heads and drums. Despite being warned.
> 
> 50watts should do much better. Why not try a 5153 50 watter?


I'd love to try one but also they dont have built in boost and gate.

Peavey should def make a 50w invective  @spacedoutace I dont know why to bother with the lower wattage...I guess it's strictly for bedroom players and part trendy novelty item


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

So get an attenuater and a 212 cabinet. You're not going to get that big of a difference in volume anyways, and you'd likely get less features.


----------



## FILTHnFEAR

I don't see them making a 50w Invective. The 120 switches down to 60 and now they have a 20w MH. Not much point.

Is the weight of the 120 really that big of an issue? As Ace said, the volume difference between 50 and 100 watts is negligible, you'll have better headroom and all the features.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

I'd switch to a 212 (-3dB or so if everything is mostly equal or close to it versus a 412) and use the 60w setting (another -3dB give or take).


----------



## Deadpool_25

Volume should not be an issue with this amp. It’s very easy to control at low volumes. With the post and master volumes low it’s definitely bedroom volume. If it gets a little fizzy with the posts so low, just dial back the treble and presence and/or use an EQ (I recommend MXR 10-band for the extra high end frequency control).

Hmmm. I may have to unwatch this thread as I’m considering selling mine lol. Gotta help fund a non-guitar purchase.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Deadpool_25 said:


> Volume should not be an issue with this amp. It’s very easy to control at low volumes. With the post and master volumes low it’s definitely bedroom volume. If it gets a little fizzy with the posts so low, just dial back the treble and presence and/or use an EQ (I recommend MXR 10-band for the extra high end frequency control).
> 
> Hmmm. I may have to unwatch this thread as I’m considering selling mine lol. Gotta help fund a non-guitar purchase.



Lowering the boost knob on the back helps with taming it too. I found that riding the master and the boost low can give me 6505MH 1watt level volumes.


----------



## Guitardave

What’s going on with the MH? I’ve had one on pre-order for weeks here in the UK, but even Peavey UK (as of yesterday) still can’t provide a release date :-/

Every website that has it up for pre-order has a different date! The place I ordered from has August 5th, but i’m not holding my breath...

Really frustrating when they launch these products at NAMM but then you can’t actually get hold of them for 6-12 months later.


----------



## Soya

Or if you live in Australia, ever.


----------



## beavis2306

I


Soya said:


> Or if you live in Australia, ever.



Truth


----------



## Vyn

Soya said:


> Or if you live in Australia, ever.



If it's a music product from a US brand that's not Fender or Gibson it's nigh on impossible to get easily in Australia. You have better luck convincing Joe Blogs private seller to ship his gear to Australia than a dealer being able to get something in from the manufacturer.

On the flip side our ESP/Ibanez dealers are on point and we get ALL the cool shit haha (my local has had 3 2027XLs in the space of 4 months haha)


----------



## Werecow

Vyn said:


> If it's a music product from a US brand that's not Fender or Gibson it's nigh on impossible to get easily in Australia. You have better luck convincing Joe Blogs private seller to ship his gear to Australia than a dealer being able to get something in from the manufacturer.
> 
> On the flip side our ESP/Ibanez dealers are on point and we get ALL the cool shit haha (my local has had 3 2027XLs in the space of 4 months haha)



Is the problem that there's no equivalent to an Andertons, or Thomann, or Sweetwater there? Or just that the manufacturers themselves aren't interested in the market?


----------



## StevenC

Werecow said:


> Is the problem that there's no equivalent to an Andertons, or Thomann, or Sweetwater there? Or just that the manufacturers themselves aren't interested in the market?


There's half a billion people in the EU and in North America. There's maybe 30 million in Australia and New Zealand.


----------



## Vyn

Werecow said:


> Is the problem that there's no equivalent to an Andertons, or Thomann, or Sweetwater there? Or just that the manufacturers themselves aren't interested in the market?





StevenC said:


> There's half a billion people in the EU and in North America. There's maybe 30 million in Australia and New Zealand.



Less than 30 million, I think we only recently hit 24 million haha. Scale is part of the problem, the other being the middle men who are the distribution network (third parties independent of the manufacturer) are fucking useless at importing goods.


----------



## Guitardave

So I managed to finally get a timescale out of Peavey for the release of the Invective MH. They told me “4th Quarter”, so anywhere between October and December. Not exactly helpful. Maybe they’re going to try for a full 12 months from revealing the amp to anyone being able to actually buy one. I’m on the verge of cancelling my preorder and just going with an EVH 5150 instead. Fed up of waiting!


----------



## Matt08642

I can't even try Peavey stuff where I am in Canada tbh, I can't imagine other countries lol


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Guitardave said:


> So I managed to finally get a timescale out of Peavey for the release of the Invective MH. They told me “4th Quarter”, so anywhere between October and December. Not exactly helpful. Maybe they’re going to try for a full 12 months from revealing the amp to anyone being able to actually buy one. I’m on the verge of cancelling my preorder and just going with an EVH 5150 instead. Fed up of waiting!


Just go for it. Cut your losses.


----------



## Spinedriver

Matt08642 said:


> I can't even try Peavey stuff where I am in Canada tbh, I can't imagine other countries lol


 
Same here. There was 1 store in the city that carried Peavey stuff but L&M bought them out and closed the store. If you want ANYTHING Peavey now, it's either buy & sell ads or pawn shops.


----------



## Matt08642

Spinedriver said:


> Same here. There was 1 store in the city that carried Peavey stuff but L&M bought them out and closed the store. If you want ANYTHING Peavey now, it's either buy & sell ads or pawn shops.



Yep exactly. We had one store that carried Peavey in my city but they closed in like 2012. Since then it's been slim pickings. I remember asking the L&M guy in 2015ish if they carried Peavey and he almost laughed at the notion


----------



## Spinedriver

Matt08642 said:


> Yep exactly. We had one store that carried Peavey in my city but they closed in like 2012. Since then it's been slim pickings. I remember asking the L&M guy in 2015ish if they carried Peavey and he almost laughed at the notion



I think Peavey was considered to be their 'budget' line of amps at one time but since then, L&M either bought or was bought by Yorkville/Traynor, so that took over the 'budget' bass/guitar amp head part and now with Line 6, Boss, Marshall & Fender all putting out cheap combo amps, they didn't really need Peavey anymore. That & I seem to recall there being something about L&M having a lot of issues with Peavey in general so they just said 'screw it' because they had plenty of other things to fill in the gap.


----------



## USMarine75

Vyn said:


> If it's a music product from a US brand that's not Fender or Gibson it's nigh on impossible to get easily in Australia. You have better luck convincing Joe Blogs private seller to ship his gear to Australia than a dealer being able to get something in from the manufacturer.
> 
> On the flip side our ESP/Ibanez dealers are on point and we get ALL the cool shit haha (my local has had 3 2027XLs in the space of 4 months haha)



Just buy an MI Audio Gamma or Beta instead.


----------



## Guitardave

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Just go for it. Cut your losses.



Done.

Cancelled the Invective Mini and put in an order for the new EVH 5150 el34 1x12 combo instead. It’s due end of October. Fender were a lot more helpful than Peavey have been, and the 1x12 has got all the features i’m looking for so i’m happy to wait.

Shame the Peavey deal went sour. At the time I ordered it I was really looking forward to it, and the EVH hadn’t even been announced at that point. I’m sure it will sound great when it does eventually hit the stores though


----------



## Socatevoli

I registered here just to make this post..

I recently stumbled upon a Chinese made invective, and an “assembled in USA” model. There are def noticeable differences including over all volume/tone of the amp!

USA model made in 2017 China model made in 2018.

Right off the bat you can see a difference in the tolex. USA is lighter and feels like a quality tolex. China is really black and vinyl/plastic looking.

After inspecting differences on the outside I opened them both up and checked the internals. USA model has a red locktite on the tops of all the screw heads on the chassis. China nothing. USA used a long high quality bolt to screw in the front face plate. China is shorter bolts and feels like a cheap metal. All of the covers over the preamp tubes on the USA model came off very smooth with not binding. Chinese i really had to give some force to get them off...yes I understand you push down and twist. The wood on the USA model has an ice grain and seems solid. Chinese is particle board. Everything else seemed pretty similar..knobs looked and felt the same on both models...all of the input/output jacks felt the same when plugging and unplugging. Nothing else really stood out to me as far as cosmetics went. 

So now let’s see how they sound...

I set both amps to the exact settings and fired them up. Right away I noticed the clean channel light on the USA model was more of a yellowish green and the light on the Chinese model is just straight green. I a/b’ed both amps and started with the Chinese model on the clean tone...played a few chords then switched to the USA model...wow the difference in volume/punch and over all tone was a drastic difference. I literally stopped playing for a min because I was so shocked. The USA model sounded alive compared to the Chinese model. It was like a completely different amp. It was like this through the other two channels as well. I even brought in my tone deaf wife to reassure I wasn’t going crazy and she even gave me an “oh yeahhhh” the difference is huge!! Again both amps set up exactly the same!! So at the point I went to the tubes..I thought maybe the USA model was tampered with since it was used and maybe the previous owner messed with the bias not knowing what it could do. The milliamps on the USA model read 26.4 on the two outside tubes and 22.3 on the two inside tubes..makes sense as it drops the outside tubes when used in half mode. I’m sure the previous owner used that mode a lot. So perfectly normal and within Peaveys recommended voltage. Nothing was loose and everything tested as it should. Did the same with the Chinese model.... that amp biased around 27ma...just a tad hotter than the USA head and it has zero balls at all when compared. Just speechless.

I can understand some cheaper components when made in China but I’m pretty sure “assembled in USA” means Chinese parts assembled in the states. So how can these amps be so drastically different when it comes to the sound?? What is peavey trying to pull here...????


----------



## 7 Stringer

Ouff, you just started something big man. Watch out...... Block letter vx sig all over again!!!!!

Lol


----------



## Socatevoli

7 Stringer said:


> Ouff, you just started something big man. Watch out...... Block letter vx sig all over again!!!!!
> 
> Lol


I was afraid of that


----------



## 7 Stringer

Socatevoli said:


> I was afraid of that


You will be remembered for eternity man. Glad to have met you....lol.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

So who else here is a fan of tacos?


----------



## Socatevoli

One of the


Spaced Out Ace said:


> So who else here is a fan of tacos?


One of the very few to figure that out


----------



## prlgmnr

Socatevoli said:


> I set both amps to the exact settings and fired them up. Right away I noticed the clean channel light on the USA model was more of a yellowish green and the light on the Chinese model is just straight green



Make America(n lights) Green Again


----------



## AkiraSpectrum

Somehow Premier Guitar still fails to put out a decent product demo even after all these years.


----------



## Werecow

AkiraSpectrum said:


> Somehow Premier Guitar still fails to put out a decent product demo even after all these years.




I'm not sure why manufacturers want their high gain stuff on their channel. The more classic rock leaning people in the comments nearly always tear everything metal apart in the comments no matter how good the amp is, and yeah they hardly ever record the things well either. Either that or the player makes weird decisions to layer effects over it or play styles of music not really associated with the amp.


----------



## FILTHnFEAR

Would it be possible to add an extra FX loop or two to the Invective? And be able to function within presets like the existing two?

Or would that just be too much? I know nothing of the complexities of loops(obviously lol).


----------



## Vyn

FILTHnFEAR said:


> Would it be possible to add an extra FX loop or two to the Invective? And be able to function within presets like the existing two?
> 
> Or would that just be too much? I know nothing of the complexities of loops(obviously lol).



It's completely possible to do with almost any amp. The issue running out of space in the chassis. In the case of the invective with the feature set it already has, I doubt there's room left in there to swing a bee's dick.


----------



## shpence

mylilss said:


> Just curious if anyone has tried KT88’s in this amp yet ? I’ve been tossing up the idea of retubing my invective with a set but it looks like they used the narrow power tube placement peavey is notorious for, which would mean they don’t fit. I’m not sure of the exact spacing needed so I thought I’d ask on here to see if anyone has tried it


Did anyone ever try this? I unfortunately went through this whole thread but only saw 6550s being used instead of the 6L6s.


----------



## FILTHnFEAR

shpence said:


> Did anyone ever try this? I unfortunately went through this whole thread but only saw 6550s being used instead of the 6L6s.



The Invective manual says it can run Kt88's, and IIRC John Fields said so as well on the Invective FB page a while back.

I plan on trying some in mine here before long, I'll make sure I report back after doing so.

Really curious as to what it will sound like with them as opposed to the 6l6's that are in there now.


----------



## soul_lip_mike

I just got an invective 120w head. Coming from an EVH 5150 50w with a 2x12 cab. Any recs on a 2x12 cab to pair with it? I’m still using the evh 5150 cab for now but it’s only 60w and it’s ivory which bugs me sitting under the black invective.


----------



## narad

FILTHnFEAR said:


> The Invective manual says it can run Kt88's, and IIRC John Fields said so as well on the Invective FB page a while back.
> 
> I plan on trying some in mine here before long, I'll make sure I report back after doing so.
> 
> Really curious as to what it will sound like with them as opposed to the 6l6's that are in there now.



Literally the only part of this amp that had be considering it over a vanilla 5150. Really wish someone would give it a shot and report back. Does it have external bias points?


----------



## MASS DEFECT

So...what happened to the Invective Mini? Died because of Covid-19?


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

soul_lip_mike said:


> I just got an invective 120w head. Coming from an EVH 5150 50w with a 2x12 cab. Any recs on a 2x12 cab to pair with it? I’m still using the evh 5150 cab for now but it’s only 60w and it’s ivory which bugs me sitting under the black invective.


Aren't those EVH speakers 20w? Pretty sure they are, which would be 40w...


----------



## Mike_R

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Aren't those EVH speakers 20w? Pretty sure they are, which would be 40w...



The EVH 2x12s don't come with the signature EVH speakers, they come with 30w G12H Anniversarys.


----------



## soul_lip_mike

Mike_R said:


> The EVH 2x12s don't come with the signature EVH speakers, they come with 30w G12H Anniversarys.



Yep -- dual 12" Celestion G12H 30-watt


----------



## beavis2306

soul_lip_mike said:


> I just got an invective 120w head. Coming from an EVH 5150 50w with a 2x12 cab. Any recs on a 2x12 cab to pair with it? I’m still using the evh 5150 cab for now but it’s only 60w and it’s ivory which bugs me sitting under the black invective.


Ya happy with the sound of the amp?


----------



## Deadpool_25

@soul_lip_mike 

I had a pine 2x12 built by BFG cabs. It looks a lot like a Mesa 4x12 but is a bit smaller and is the width of the head. It has the same speakers as are in the stock Invective cab—a V30 and a Creamback 65. They’re connected at 16ohms and sound phenomenal imo.

I also tried it with a Mesa 4x12 (V30s) which also kicked ass.

You might want to find a used Recto 2x12 horizontal cab. Should sound great b


----------



## soul_lip_mike

Deadpool_25 said:


> @soul_lip_mike
> 
> I had a pine 2x12 built by BFG cabs. It looks a lot like a Mesa 4x12 but is a bit smaller and is the width of the head. It has the same speakers as are in the stock Invective cab—a V30 and a Creamback 65. They’re connected at 16ohms and sound phenomenal imo.
> 
> I also tried it with a Mesa 4x12 (V30s) which also kicked ass.
> 
> You might want to find a used Recto 2x12 horizontal cab. Should sound great b



That sounds awesome @Deadpool_25 did you post it anywhere on here?


----------



## Deadpool_25

soul_lip_mike said:


> That sounds awesome @Deadpool_25 did you post it anywhere on here?



Im sure I posted it but it’s been a while. Here’s an older pic:


----------



## Deadpool_25

Here’s a more recent pic. I blacked out the front panel.


----------



## jemunder

Been reading this thread. Man...a lot of arguing about where it's made or why they are or weren't available. Struggled to get through the whole 127 pgs but I did find some good info. Kind of expected to see more about different tones with different settings, tube rolling, changes in bias settings, ect.

As soon as I plugged it in I noticed the volume situation. Saw the post about the master boost so now I just run it dimed all the time. I'm not a big fan of the noise gate. Still a ton of hissing going on and it cuts your notes off even at lower settings. I guess it would be optimal for the fast down tuned start/stop rhythm riffs where you don't need that sustain but no good for lead IMO. I have an old school ISP Decimator and just run that up front and it does a way better job keeping things quiet but not killing the sustain. I don't even find that I need to run a gate in the loop at all. 

One thing i noticed is this amp is surgical...doesn't cover up mistakes well that's for sure. Articulation is going to be great for extended range guitars with low tunings I have no doubt. To me the amp sounded stiff initially and cold. I've been playing Marshall's for a while now and it's been a minute since I owned a 5150/6505 so normally I'm all about mids. I honestly couldn't get a real good warm tone with nice sustain and harmonics. Suddenly I got pretty depressed. Just spent a fair amount of money on this beast and it really wasn't living up to my expectations. Then I started to think well maybe I'm just so used to the Marshall tone, maybe that's just what I like now. Am I going to really have to flip this thing and just get a JVM? Anyway...I spent more time with it and noticed quite a few things and was able to dial it in like the amp I thought it would be. 

As stated here there is a pretty big difference in tone just with the way you dial in the channel post with the master volume. It is way warmer with the channel post volumes dimed and just using the master. This is the way I like to run it. Or you could honestly blend them in any different amounts and get different results...this is actually pretty cool. EQ settings along with the presence & resonance seem to react well & give you what you need...no issues there. With the channel volumes & master boost dimed and on there is no question about volume lol. It gets crushingly loud on like 2. Back to the warmth thing...I checked the bias on the tubes and it was running somewhere around the neighborhood of 26mA. I cranked them up to 33 and it made all the difference in the world. Suddenly the amp got warmer, harmonic content was there, nice sustain, note separation in chords, ect. I highly recommend biasing your tubes warmer. All you need is a cheap multimeter.

I'm rambling here but there is a lot to this amp. Jury is out as to whether or not I prefer the boost on the orange/red channel vs a pedal. On the orange channel I honestly prefer to just use a regular old TS808. Dial the gain way back (yeah right!) & add gain & level on the TS and it sounds really badass. Red channel does remind me of the 5150. For this channel you can use the boost on the amp and be just fine...tight as hell with that nasty grind & more gain on tap than you would ever use. Cleans are ridiculous. I have an old analog chorus and it sounds unreal through the loop. Then as you introduce the OD you get into blues & classic rock territory. All in all I think this is a fantastic amp and it has the ability to cover a ton of different tones if you experiment with the settings, it's onboard boosts, & different pedals. I'd like to have the matching cab so I can see how that responds but all in all I'm very happy with it. Will probably start experimenting with swapping pre's to see how the amp responds to different 12AX7's. I'm not a huge fan of the JJ preamp tubes...I like their power tubes though. Peace...


----------



## Deadpool_25

jemunder said:


> Been reading this thread. Man...a lot of arguing about where it's made or why they are or weren't available. Struggled to get through the whole 127 pgs but I did find some good info. Kind of expected to see more about different tones with different settings, tube rolling, changes in bias settings, ect.
> 
> As soon as I plugged it in I noticed the volume situation. Saw the post about the master boost so now I just run it dimed all the time. I'm not a big fan of the noise gate. Still a ton of hissing going on and it cuts your notes off even at lower settings. I guess it would be optimal for the fast down tuned start/stop rhythm riffs where you don't need that sustain but no good for lead IMO. I have an old school ISP Decimator and just run that up front and it does a way better job keeping things quiet but not killing the sustain. I don't even find that I need to run a gate in the loop at all.
> 
> One thing i noticed is this amp is surgical...doesn't cover up mistakes well that's for sure. Articulation is going to be great for extended range guitars with low tunings I have no doubt. To me the amp sounded stiff initially and cold. I've been playing Marshall's for a while now and it's been a minute since I owned a 5150/6505 so normally I'm all about mids. I honestly couldn't get a real good warm tone with nice sustain and harmonics. Suddenly I got pretty depressed. Just spent a fair amount of money on this beast and it really wasn't living up to my expectations. Then I started to think well maybe I'm just so used to the Marshall tone, maybe that's just what I like now. Am I going to really have to flip this thing and just get a JVM? Anyway...I spent more time with it and noticed quite a few things and was able to dial it in like the amp I thought it would be.
> 
> As stated here there is a pretty big difference in tone just with the way you dial in the channel post with the master volume. It is way warmer with the channel post volumes dimed and just using the master. This is the way I like to run it. Or you could honestly blend them in any different amounts and get different results...this is actually pretty cool. EQ settings along with the presence & resonance seem to react well & give you what you need...no issues there. With the channel volumes & master boost dimed and on there is no question about volume lol. It gets crushingly loud on like 2. Back to the warmth thing...I checked the bias on the tubes and it was running somewhere around the neighborhood of 26mA. I cranked them up to 33 and it made all the difference in the world. Suddenly the amp got warmer, harmonic content was there, nice sustain, note separation in chords, ect. I highly recommend biasing your tubes warmer. All you need is a cheap multimeter.
> 
> I'm rambling here but there is a lot to this amp. Jury is out as to whether or not I prefer the boost on the orange/red channel vs a pedal. On the orange channel I honestly prefer to just use a regular old TS808. Dial the gain way back (yeah right!) & add gain & level on the TS and it sounds really badass. Red channel does remind me of the 5150. For this channel you can use the boost on the amp and be just fine...tight as hell with that nasty grind & more gain on tap than you would ever use. Cleans are ridiculous. I have an old analog chorus and it sounds unreal through the loop. Then as you introduce the OD you get into blues & classic rock territory. All in all I think this is a fantastic amp and it has the ability to cover a ton of different tones if you experiment with the settings, it's onboard boosts, & different pedals. I'd like to have the matching cab so I can see how that responds but all in all I'm very happy with it. Will probably start experimenting with swapping pre's to see how the amp responds to different 12AX7's. I'm not a huge fan of the JJ preamp tubes...I like their power tubes though. Peace...



Welcome to the forum. Good first post. Sorry you had to wade through this whole thread lol.

Agreed on all points. I haven't gotten into tube rolling other than swapping the lower gain preamp tubes in there. It's back to the stock tubes right now though. Not for any real reason other than I was testing it against the 5150 and never put the 12AT7s (or were they 12AU7s?) back in there. Sounds great. Now it's running in the 2-amp rig with the Super Kraken it's wtfbeastly.


----------



## jemunder

Thanks man...& thanks for all you contributed to this thread. Actually helped me fix some issues I was having last night. I'm sure that 2-amp rig sounds killer. I'm going to get this bitch all figured out then I'll post some videos.


----------



## Deadpool_25

jemunder said:


> Thanks man...& thanks for all you contributed to this thread. Actually helped me fix some issues I was having last night. I'm sure that 2-amp rig sounds killer. I'm going to get this bitch all figured out then I'll post some videos.



Cool man. Thanks for that. I'm glad all my yapping in this thread was at least a tiny bit helpful to someone lol. The rig does sound killer, but I've ripped my pedalboard apart _yet again_, this time to build a homemade board to put the pedals on. Looking forward to your videos for sure.


----------



## soul_lip_mike

As much of a @bulb fan boy this will make me out to be, I have actually had a lot of success running the Horizon precision drive on top of the Channel 2 for my main Rhythm tone. It really tightens things up. The noise gate is great IMHO. I haven't had to use the master boost very much, nor the regular boost on the 2nd channel. I love the sound of the boosted clean channel for a bit of a dirty bluesy sound. Have not used channel 3 much at all yet. I tend to find it a bit too messy for me but I have not had a lot of time to mess with the amp at loud volumes yet.


----------



## soul_lip_mike

@Deadpool_25 which speakers did you put in your custom cab? Same as the invective 2x12? Following your advice since the invective 2x12 is on back order forever I am having BFG build me one. Never installed my own speakers before so hopefully it goes well...


----------



## Deadpool_25

soul_lip_mike said:


> @Deadpool_25 which speakers did you put in your custom cab? Same as the invective 2x12? Following your advice since the invective 2x12 is on back order forever I am having BFG build me one. Never installed my own speakers before so hopefully it goes well...



Yeah I used the same speakers as the stock invective cab, a V30 and a Creamback. Both are UK made and both are 8 ohms which allows for either a 4 or 16 ohm configuration. I chose 16 like the stock cab. My cab has a single output jack, not a switchable jack like the stock cab (although sometimes I wish it was switchable--maybe I should install a switchable plate). The wiring isn't tough, once you've settled on what you want the cab's impedence to be, then you can order the speakers with the correct ohm rating. Let me know if you have any other questions.

Brian at BFG is awesome to work with does great work.


----------



## jemunder

I agree with you on the precision drive. I found one here locally on CL and snatched it up on a good deal. It is an awesome pedal! It runs great on the orange or red channel & I was able to do away with my ISP Decimator up front since the pedal has a built in gate that works well. Hell only thing I have on my pedal board now is a tuner, CFH wah, the precision drive & the mothership floor board for the invective with chorus & delay running through the loops. I'm using a Seismic oversized 2X12 with V30's. Sounds awesome but I want the Invective cab once they are available. Check out these settings with the precision drive...orange channel pre 7, gate on or off either way, onboard boost off, Low 6, Mid 3.5, High 6.5, Post 8, Presence 6, Resonance 7, master volume to taste & master boost off. Precision drive attack 2nd position or 11:00, volume noon, bright 1:00 & drive off. Sounds sick as hell through my rig with an Ibanez RG tuned to drop C with blackouts. I can use similar settings with the red channel but I back the gain off to about 4. To me the precision drive makes the amp way tighter than the onboard boost. I also have a baritone RG tuned to drop B with a bareknuckle alnico warpig and that fucker sounds nasty as hell with this setup.

Oh forgot...my tubes are also biased at 33ma. Good improvement IMO.


----------



## Iron1

MASS DEFECT said:


> So...what happened to the Invective Mini? Died because of Covid-19?



Anyone have any real updates on this? Sweetwater is saying they can ship in September, but that would require patience...


----------



## Blast Meat

Looks like this Thread kind of died, but I registered nevertheless because I got my Invective today. Actually I was quite lucky, it was the very last available in Germany and neighbour countries. 

Just gotta say this amp is everything I've ever dreamed of. 15 years ago I spent years to get the Machine Head sound but I was not able to afford a 5150/6505 since I've been in school and the amp was f*cking expencive back then. Now it was cheap, and whilst I'm still a metal head throughout, I want an amp that does everything, chimey cleans, nice crunch combined with the 6505 leads. I've been in love with the 6505 sound ever since and whilst I tried tons of different amps during the past 15 years, I always come back loving and prefering the 6505 sound, not just for metal. So after owning various Engl's, Bulldozers, Hughes & Kettners, Marshalls, Bugeras, EVH... I kind of sticked with the Marshall JVM410 due to it's incredible flexibility, but whenever I played or recorded, I preferred my Peavey Vypyr modelling amp due to its 6505 model. Well. Sure, Marshall may fit better to normal Rock music which I do than the Peavey 6505, bud I don't give a f*ck. I just love how the Peaveys sound.

So the past few months I was working on a new band project doing some alternative hard rock stuff and after months of recording and looking for MY sound, I just noticed once more: 6505 Lead it is. The problem: I want a tube amp with the 6505 lead sound, but an actual clean and crunch channel, external bias points, full midi support and just the flexibility that I need. While it was cool having like 10 amps at home, I found myself just playing with the one I liked the most even though I just loved it for one particular channel.

I actually took a quick look at the Invective a year ago, but I didn't realize it was based of the 6505. So I got kind of upset why Peavey is not releasing a modern 6505 that can be used in any imaginable band situation and for more than just heavy stuff. And the fact that this amp was promoted as Misha Signarute Amp didn't help. @ Misha: You're a great guy and I love the sounds you get, no question. But this kind of promotion just felt like the amp is super scooped and meant to be played with 8 strings only for Djent, which is just not my cup of tea. So I forgot about the invective, up until I found this thread. And I reat all the damn 128 pages and instantly catched the last available Invective over here. And Misha, thanks a fucking ton to make a modern 6505 rather than another one trick pony. 

And holy shit, I love it. It's technically the amp I've always been dreaming of. The Noise Gate is awesome and I like that it is a little slower when you keep the threshold fairly low. I also like the dicision to keep the gate before the preamp, because I hate having a gate in the loop and having to adjust the threshold every time you change the Channel volume vs the master volume. And with the Invective, it's super smart because the voicing of the amp changes a LOT when you're juggling the post gain vs master volume knobs. It got infinite balls even through my cheap 2x12 with vintage 30's which is kind of bright due to the poor construction and materials. But Pre gain at 8 does it for me. This is actually the first amp that I love straight away with all dials set to 12 o clock, which I absolutely love, because in my opinion the amp has to be your cup of thea with all dials at 12 o clock already. If it's not, then it's not the right amp. And the clean is fantastic. I just tried it with my Eclipse equiped with EMG 57 and 66 and though I cranked the gain on the clean channel, it's still super clean, It gets warmer, but doesn't clip.

The built in boosts are nice as well. I can't spot a huge difference in between the built in Boost and my vintage Maxon OD 808. And this is another big point for me: I planned to buy a midi looper so when I select the lead channel, the Maxon OD 808 will be engaged and as soon as I switch to clean, it gets disabled automatically. Wich this amp, I can store a clean without boost preset, clean with overdrive, crunch, crunch with boost, lead without boost for heavy rythem and lead with boost and volume boost for leads. And with the post gain knob set fairly high you can immediately hear the 6505 DNA. And it sounds fantastic, it's super tight, yet doesn't cover my guitar sound. I tried single coils, passive and active humbuckers, various guitars and this amp just nails it. Some amps just sound the same no matter what guitar you plug in. And the dynamics. Damn I have so much gain in the lead channel and still the gain drops if you just pick the strings extremely light. Just a little tighter and boom, it chuggs.

Anyway, after trying so many amps I finally "feel at home". So though I got a bit older I'll still play some Machine f*cking Head now, because finally my sound is in their ballpark. Awesome amp, seriously.


----------



## Shoeless_jose

Blast Meat said:


> Looks like this Thread kind of died, but I registered nevertheless because I got my Invective today. Actually I was quite lucky, it was the very last available in Germany and neighbour countries.
> 
> Just gotta say this amp is everything I've ever dreamed of. 15 years ago I spent years to get the Machine Head sound but I was not able to afford a 5150/6505 since I've been in school and the amp was f*cking expencive back then. Now it was cheap, and whilst I'm still a metal head throughout, I want an amp that does everything, chimey cleans, nice crunch combined with the 6505 leads. I've been in love with the 6505 sound ever since and whilst I tried tons of different amps during the past 15 years, I always come back loving and prefering the 6505 sound, not just for metal. So after owning various Engl's, Bulldozers, Hughes & Kettners, Marshalls, Bugeras, EVH... I kind of sticked with the Marshall JVM410 due to it's incredible flexibility, but whenever I played or recorded, I preferred my Peavey Vypyr modelling amp due to its 6505 model. Well. Sure, Marshall may fit better to normal Rock music which I do than the Peavey 6505, bud I don't give a f*ck. I just love how the Peaveys sound.
> 
> So the past few months I was working on a new band project doing some alternative hard rock stuff and after months of recording and looking for MY sound, I just noticed once more: 6505 Lead it is. The problem: I want a tube amp with the 6505 lead sound, but an actual clean and crunch channel, external bias points, full midi support and just the flexibility that I need. While it was cool having like 10 amps at home, I found myself just playing with the one I liked the most even though I just loved it for one particular channel.
> 
> I actually took a quick look at the Invective a year ago, but I didn't realize it was based of the 6505. So I got kind of upset why Peavey is not releasing a modern 6505 that can be used in any imaginable band situation and for more than just heavy stuff. And the fact that this amp was promoted as Misha Signarute Amp didn't help. @ Misha: You're a great guy and I love the sounds you get, no question. But this kind of promotion just felt like the amp is super scooped and meant to be played with 8 strings only for Djent, which is just not my cup of tea. So I forgot about the invective, up until I found this thread. And I reat all the damn 128 pages and instantly catched the last available Invective over here. And Misha, thanks a fucking ton to make a modern 6505 rather than another one trick pony.
> 
> And holy shit, I love it. It's technically the amp I've always been dreaming of. The Noise Gate is awesome and I like that it is a little slower when you keep the threshold fairly low. I also like the dicision to keep the gate before the preamp, because I hate having a gate in the loop and having to adjust the threshold every time you change the Channel volume vs the master volume. And with the Invective, it's super smart because the voicing of the amp changes a LOT when you're juggling the post gain vs master volume knobs. It got infinite balls even through my cheap 2x12 with vintage 30's which is kind of bright due to the poor construction and materials. But Pre gain at 8 does it for me. This is actually the first amp that I love straight away with all dials set to 12 o clock, which I absolutely love, because in my opinion the amp has to be your cup of thea with all dials at 12 o clock already. If it's not, then it's not the right amp. And the clean is fantastic. I just tried it with my Eclipse equiped with EMG 57 and 66 and though I cranked the gain on the clean channel, it's still super clean, It gets warmer, but doesn't clip.
> 
> The built in boosts are nice as well. I can't spot a huge difference in between the built in Boost and my vintage Maxon OD 808. And this is another big point for me: I planned to buy a midi looper so when I select the lead channel, the Maxon OD 808 will be engaged and as soon as I switch to clean, it gets disabled automatically. Wich this amp, I can store a clean without boost preset, clean with overdrive, crunch, crunch with boost, lead without boost for heavy rythem and lead with boost and volume boost for leads. And with the post gain knob set fairly high you can immediately hear the 6505 DNA. And it sounds fantastic, it's super tight, yet doesn't cover my guitar sound. I tried single coils, passive and active humbuckers, various guitars and this amp just nails it. Some amps just sound the same no matter what guitar you plug in. And the dynamics. Damn I have so much gain in the lead channel and still the gain drops if you just pick the strings extremely light. Just a little tighter and boom, it chuggs.
> 
> Anyway, after trying so many amps I finally "feel at home". So though I got a bit older I'll still play some Machine f*cking Head now, because finally my sound is in their ballpark. Awesome amp, seriously.



Welcome to the forum!!

With all the nonsense in the world right now getting to read a nice long story about a guy getting the amp he wanted was fantastic. Congrats on new amp hope it serves you well!!! 


Also make a new amp day thread with some photos!!


----------



## Deadpool_25

@Blast Meat Welcome! Congrats on getting an amp you love! That can be tough. After some recent a/b testing, I kind of fell back in love with the Invective.

As far as I can tell, the Invective can do every decent sound I can get out of my 6505. But it also has a really good clean channel and a ton more features/options. 

Some of the features are obvious, but one that may not be as obvious for some people is that on the 6505 you can change between the rhythm and lead channels but you can’t engage/disengage the crunch switch via the foot pedal. On the Invective you of course have instant access to all three channels (and the boosts of course).

Still an awesome amp.

A personal apology for you having to read my constant posting in this thread lol (he says as he posts in this thread)


----------



## beavis2306

How does the shared eq go though? This is the only thing making me look at a stealth


----------



## Deadpool_25

beavis2306 said:


> How does the shared eq go though? This is the only thing making me look at a stealth



Total non-issue for me but it doesn’t bother me on.....all my amps have that lol. Hadn’t really occurred to me. Invective, Super Kraken, BE-100D, 6505. They all have a shared EQ. But I know it’s a thing for plenty of people so YMMV.


----------



## Blast Meat

Thank you guys! I'll post a thread with some detailed opinion once I have some more experience with this beauty...

Here a pic after I unboxed it at home:

@Deadpool_25 no worries, was having a good read! This is the first insanely long thread I was reading until the very end. 

About the shared eq: I like it as well, the crunch and lead sound good and fit together, so a good lead eq will also be satisfying in the crunch channel. I had the issue with my jvm because 4 independand channels with independent eq, 3 modes per channel, it's 12 sounds you can get. I spent ages to decide which of the 12 modes to use and then another ages for finding good eq settings and setting them up to fit together. So the common eq on crunch and lead is pretty nice due to the voicing fitting together


----------



## Iron1

Congrats on the purchase, Blast Meat. And Welcome! 

FYI, I heard from a friend who knows someone on the development team that the MHs just finally went into production with an expectation they'd start shipping to the states in October.


----------



## Blast Meat

Thank you!

So after work I spent the entire day with the amp, just adjusted the bias because it was even colder than what Peavey recommends in the manual. (26 ma per Tube, in average I got 25, so i pushed it a little)

So far I am still pleased with the sound and everything, but I found something that is a bit weird. At bedroom volumes I noticed that when you turn up the master boost on the backside of the amp, the sound gets uber fizzy, even with post gain maxed. It's so fizzy, it almost sounds like a broken tube. When you engage the master boost, some of the fizz goes away, but I definitely have the best tones with the master boost set on 0, so the fizz is pretty much gone no matter whether master boost is enabled or not.

Did anyone try the master volume boost on stage volume and knows if it still introduces this much fizz when the knob is cranked and the boost is disenganged? I'm living in an apartment and can't really crank the amp without pissing my neighbors off.

Or might this be caused by a weird preamp tube? However, I have a bright cab with V30's, so some of the fizz definitely comes from the cab. But compared to all my other amps, when cranking the master boost the amp sounds broken.

Edit: Master Boost on 0 on the backside of the amp, but when you engage it, the tone gets better with less fizz, even though the volume remains the same. This is a bit weird...


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Blast Meat said:


> Thank you!
> 
> So after work I spent the entire day with the amp, just adjusted the bias because it was even colder than what Peavey recommends in the manual. (26 ma per Tube, in average I got 25, so i pushed it a little)
> 
> So far I am still pleased with the sound and everything, but I found something that is a bit weird. At bedroom volumes I noticed that when you turn up the master boost on the backside of the amp, the sound gets uber fizzy, even with post gain maxed. It's so fizzy, it almost sounds like a broken tube. When you engage the master boost, some of the fizz goes away, but I definitely have the best tones with the master boost set on 0, so the fizz is pretty much gone no matter whether master boost is enabled or not.
> 
> Did anyone try the master volume boost on stage volume and knows if it still introduces this much fizz when the knob is cranked and the boost is disenganged? I'm living in an apartment and can't really crank the amp without pissing my neighbors off.
> 
> Or might this be caused by a weird preamp tube? However, I have a bright cab with V30's, so some of the fizz definitely comes from the cab. But compared to all my other amps, when cranking the master boost the amp sounds broken.
> 
> Edit: Master Boost on 0 on the backside of the amp, but when you engage it, the tone gets better with less fizz, even though the volume remains the same. This is a bit weird...



I don't think that's weird at all considering that the master boost and the master volume puts the amp on a leash hence the fizz when it's on lower levels. While a basic 5150 has only a post gain but the amp is wide open. On the Invective, putting the master boost on 10 and master volume on 10 and controlling volume via post gain is the basic 5150 setup (less fizz).


----------



## Blast Meat

I just tried this and it honestly sounds like my Invective is broken. It's so extremely fizzy, incredible. I played a 6505 some time ago with my cab and it was not even close to this in terms of fizzyness. It almost sounds like a broken tube or a broken speaker, but the cab is fine with ma other amps.

Edit: Trying all the various settings, I get the feeling that maybe a tube might be bad. The power tubes look fine, no extreme glow or redplating, bias is at the cold 26 ma recommended in the manual. I got some spare 12AX7 here, gonna swap the pre's and see whether one of them are faulty and causing this sound. It sounds honestly really really bad

Edit 2: I just enabled master boost, cranked it, cranked Post gain and when I turn the master volume up, it seems like the amp is actually pretty quiet? When I do this with my other amps, my neighbors would immedately call the cops. I got everything cranked and master at 1 and it's still not more than louder bedroom volume...

Edit 4: Nevermind. Stupid me forgot that I routed the amp through an reactive attenuator yesterday evening for testing. It is loud AF. And while cranking everything except post gain is the worst thing in terms of fizzyness, it gets really good at bedroom volume the other way around. I know this is not how the 5150 works, since there the powertube is always at 100% and the amp volume is dialed in via post gain. But on the Invective however, for practice and "playing at home volumes", keeping post gain at 90-100% and master low is just better.

Ah and I also noticed that maybe I just f*cked one of my V30's in my 2x12. Switching to stereo and playing through the single speakers, one is of them is veeeery less fizzy than the other.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Blast Meat said:


> I just tried this and it honestly sounds like my Invective is broken. It's so extremely fizzy, incredible. I played a 6505 some time ago with my cab and it was not even close to this in terms of fizzyness. It almost sounds like a broken tube or a broken speaker, but the cab is fine with ma other amps.
> 
> Edit: Trying all the various settings, I get the feeling that maybe a tube might be bad. The power tubes look fine, no extreme glow or redplating, bias is at the cold 26 ma recommended in the manual. I got some spare 12AX7 here, gonna swap the pre's and see whether one of them are faulty and causing this sound. It sounds honestly really really bad
> 
> Edit 2: I just enabled master boost, cranked it, cranked Post gain and when I turn the master volume up, it seems like the amp is actually pretty quiet? When I do this with my other amps, my neighbors would immedately call the cops. I got everything cranked and master at 1 and it's still not more than louder bedroom volume...



If you already tried cranking master boost and master volume then controlling thru post gain with 666 on eq and 5/5 on Presence and Resonance and it still sounds neutered, then yeah, probably a faulty pre amp tube somewhere.


----------



## Blast Meat

Good morning! Or good night, depends on where the majority of the users here are living.

So I still didn't figure the amp out entirely and I didn't swap the Preamp tubes yet, but playing with these settings, they're really not that fizzy. But the amp almost to loud for my apartment with master boost cranked and post gain on 0 in the lead channel. So when the amp is louder, the mids are screaming and hell, I remember why the hell I love 5150's since I got my first electric guitar as a little kid. So cranking the master boost and having post gain down vs the other way around both seems to yield the best results as soon as you play a little louder than home practice volume. I don't know how the amp sounds and reacts on stage volume though. But it easily smokes every amp at moderate volumes I had. BTW I still kind of prefer the preamp cranked and master turned down, because the other way around I get loud pops when switching channels. With the Master quiet it's silent and the amp is quiter in idle.

A small tip for you guys: I dug out my old Defizzerator and put it in the FX loop to get rid of the fizz at lower volumes and hell, I'm in love. In case you don't know what this is, it's actually a passive EQ designed by the guy who engineered the 5150 together with Eddie van Halen. It got 3 selecatble frequency ranges and a poti to adjust how much fizz is removed. So you can dial it in perfectly removing a little fizz, but not so much it sounds dull. And then it's just incredibly punchy even at bedroom volumes. I just smacked this thing in the FX loop and there it is. No fizz, just pure 5150 roar without cranking the amp. I love this thing. Since it's passive and very small, all you need is two short cables to the fx loop and that's it, no power supply required. I turned the Defizzerator down and played with engaging and disengaging the loop to see if it is changing the sound, but it really is not. I might grab the signal in between the Poweramp and Cab and run some FFT analysis to see if it changes the frequencies a bit, but with bare ears I really don't spot a difference immediately. To be honest I'd expect this from a product that is made by the guy who actually made the "granddad" of our Invectives. You should really give it a try!





God I'm in love with this amp. Thanks guys for all the useful information so far, I'm terribly relieved that this tone hunt is over and finally I got THIS tone with an amp that is super flexible.


----------



## Blast Meat

Me again,

so I did some testing to get more insight of the amp and how the master boost as well as MV to Post Gain ratio changed the behavior of the amp. Grab a coffee, this is taking a while...

It's not really scientific, but I took a looper pedal and recorded a riff, feeding it straight into the amp. The Invective is hooked up toa reactive loadbox with DI out, going straight into my DAW with some impulse responses from Ownhammer. So I am catching the signal after the power section. I kept the volume fairly low to avoid the cranked amp to mask any of the stuff I try to spot.

I recorded 8 tracks:
Post gain cranked, MV down, Master boost down but engaged
Same, but disengaged

Then I kept the post gain cranked, MV down, but cranked the master boost switch and recorded it engaged
Same, but disengaged

These 4 recordings were done with the Master volume cranked and the post gain down, all trying to dial in a similar volume.

Take a look at the tracks:



First four tracks are with post gain cranked, the last 4 tracks with MV cranked.
You can see that although I dialed in the same volume on the amp, the tracks with the post gain cranked are way less compressed. Except the third track, which is with master boost cranked and enabled. It's a little more compressed, even though the MV is still down.
Second thing I learned from this: The amp only reaches it's full volume with master boost button cranked AND engaged, this made the amp louder. Disengaged, turnd down and engaged as well as disengaged were roughly the same in level, but of course quiter as with the boost.

Now I started to use Ozone Match EQ to analyse the tracks frequency wise and roughly spot where the differences were.

First I compared Post gain cranked, MV down, Boost at the backside of the amp turned to 0 but engaging vs disengaging it. One would think this makes no difference, but it does. It's less fizzy with less high end when the master boost is engaged:


Orange: Signal with master boost engaged Blue: Signal without master boost. The white curve in the middle shows the difference in between these two, the blue one being the one with more high end. This fits to what I hear: Less fizz with the master boost engaged, even though the master boost is completely rolled off at the back panel of the Invective. If you take a look you can see that 6k is about 2 db quiter with master boost engaged. At 10k it's roughly 3-4 db quiter and at 20k hz it's 6 db quiter. So overall less high end and fizz. The volume however stays nearly the same, but the fizz seems to be cut of for whatever reason.

So now I cranked the master boost knob and compared the frequency curve with it enabled vs disabled. This is interesting.
Left being the enabled master boost, right the disabled one:


Here it's the exact opposite. The orange signal is the one with master boost knob turned up AND engaged. The right one is the same but master boost disengaged.
In this case, with the master boost knob on the back panel maxed out, it's actually a little less bright and fizzy with the master boost disengaged. Exactly the opposite of what happens when the master boost knob was turned to 0. But I guess this is something you can compensate with EQ settings.

Ok so where is this coming from? I disengaged the master boost on the footswitch but compared how the amp sound changes by turning the knob. I suspected this, but wanted to make sure: The signals are the same. So when the master boost is switched off, the setting of the boost knob does not influence the amps voicing.



So far I've learned:
Master boost knob turned down to 0, but master boost engaged: Least fizz / High End
Master boost knob turned up, but master boost disengaged: More fizz / High End
Master boost knob turned up and master boost actually engaged for more volume: Most fizz / High End

I guess this has something to do with the compression of the power section that's taking place depending on the master boost settings. So I repeated the tests above while cranking master volume and keeping post gain down. Because as you could see in the first image, cranking MV led to much more compression in the signal even in quite volumes. So my guess was that the effects of playing with the master boost is similar, but not as much noticable. So I do spare you the images to keep this post smaller, but in fact, the differences were pretty small.

MV cranked, Post gain down, master boost cranked: The difference between engaging and disengaging is neglectable. Mainly the bass below 60 hz changes a bit.
V cranked, Post gain down, master boost on 0: The difference in between engaging and disengaging were almost similar to pre gain cranked, master volume turning down. Switching off the master boost on the foot pedal also reduced the high end and fizz, but this time the frequency started decreasing at 3k instead of 600k.

So playing with the master boost, engaging and disengaging it, even when the boost knob is set on 0, makes a big difference in high end and fizz.

Last but not least, I did a comparison of the sound with master volume cranked VS. post gain cranked. This is however kind of difficult, because when the post gain is cranked, using the master boost with various settings alters the sound at some point. So I compared the following two recording:

- Post gain cranked, MV down, Boost cranked and engaged
- MV cranked, post gain down, Boost cranked and engaged

The result:
1. The sound is way more compressed, as you can see in the recorded signal of picture 1
2. The sonic differences were the following:


Orange: MV cranked, Post gain down
Blue: Post gain cranked, MV down

The main difference is a massive bass drop when cranking the master volume and keeping post gain down. In fact, cranking master volume and regulating the volume with post gain removes so much bass from the amp that it's not even visible on Ozone anymore. But it must be at least 12 db quiter.
The mids up to 3k seem to be pretty much the same, with the heights above 6 k just being 1-2 db louder. (The white line is off due to volume differences in the recording)
*
So my summary of this test:*
1. Cranking the master volume and keeping post gain down was the fizziest, no matter how you set the boost. The boost will just change the amps voicing a little with this settings, but the fizz is there. 

2. Cranking the post gain instead while keeping master volume down to adjust the amp volume leads to a much bigger bass response and thicker sound. However the boost function of the amp can lead to weird fizz depending on the settings. Turning the boost button of the backside of the amp to 0 but still engaging the boost with your footswitch was giving the least fizz.

3. With MV cranked, Post gain low, you have a way bigger compression going on, which might be desired by some guitarists.

4. If you like the sound of the amp with MV cranked, but like the less compressed feel of the Post gain cranked, you can crank the post gain, turn down resonance a lot and increase presence just a little bit. This will bring you kind of into the same ball park while maintaining dynamics.

I hope you could follow along.  This should help with the crank MV vs post gain discussion and it's differences, as well as which settings are the least fizziest, at least at lower volumes. I'm too lazy to take some more hours repeating this with the amp cranked into the load box. Hope this will be useful for some of you...


----------



## Meeotch

/\ holy shit! All I remember when I owned this amp was that for low to medium volumes I greatly preferred post gain at lower settings. Higher post gain made the amp honky and congested in the mids. I didn't get anywhere near the level of tweaking with MV and master boost that you have documented. Thanks for the write up and it makes me want to revisit this amp and compare it to the 50w stealth.


----------



## Blast Meat

Welcome!

Can anyone of you maybe try these settings?

Lead Channel
Everything at 5, gain at 4
Post gain at 3, master volume at 1.

On my Invective this setting sounds like a hi gain amp sim without cab simulation, so much fizz it is ridiculous. Can anyone replicate this on his amp? This setting sounds like the amp is seriously broken. I like the sound I can get with cranked MV or Post Gain and the defizzerator in the loop. Can this be a hint for a broken tube in some of the stages? AFAIK there are 3 pre's/gain stages working for crunch an lead...

This is the sound, SM57 on cone edge...
https://soundcloud.com/user-814170134/invective-fizz-test/s-oXrkgd4XJ50
First half is with the settings mentioned above, second half is with post gain cranked. Seriously, are your amps sounding the same?

Edit: It's way worse in the room, but you can kind of hear the fizz and buzz on the recording...


----------



## Matt08642

Blast Meat said:


> Me again,
> 
> so I did some testing to get more insight of the amp and how the master boost as well as MV to Post Gain ratio changed the behavior of the amp. Grab a coffee, this is taking a while...
> 
> It's not really scientific, but I took a looper pedal and recorded a riff, feeding it straight into the amp. The Invective is hooked up toa reactive loadbox with DI out, going straight into my DAW with some impulse responses from Ownhammer. So I am catching the signal after the power section. I kept the volume fairly low to avoid the cranked amp to mask any of the stuff I try to spot.
> 
> I recorded 8 tracks:
> Post gain cranked, MV down, Master boost down but engaged
> Same, but disengaged
> 
> Then I kept the post gain cranked, MV down, but cranked the master boost switch and recorded it engaged
> Same, but disengaged
> 
> These 4 recordings were done with the Master volume cranked and the post gain down, all trying to dial in a similar volume.
> 
> Take a look at the tracks:
> View attachment 84635
> 
> 
> First four tracks are with post gain cranked, the last 4 tracks with MV cranked.
> You can see that although I dialed in the same volume on the amp, the tracks with the post gain cranked are way less compressed. Except the third track, which is with master boost cranked and enabled. It's a little more compressed, even though the MV is still down.
> Second thing I learned from this: The amp only reaches it's full volume with master boost button cranked AND engaged, this made the amp louder. Disengaged, turnd down and engaged as well as disengaged were roughly the same in level, but of course quiter as with the boost.
> 
> Now I started to use Ozone Match EQ to analyse the tracks frequency wise and roughly spot where the differences were.
> 
> First I compared Post gain cranked, MV down, Boost at the backside of the amp turned to 0 but engaging vs disengaging it. One would think this makes no difference, but it does. It's less fizzy with less high end when the master boost is engaged:
> View attachment 84639
> 
> Orange: Signal with master boost engaged Blue: Signal without master boost. The white curve in the middle shows the difference in between these two, the blue one being the one with more high end. This fits to what I hear: Less fizz with the master boost engaged, even though the master boost is completely rolled off at the back panel of the Invective. If you take a look you can see that 6k is about 2 db quiter with master boost engaged. At 10k it's roughly 3-4 db quiter and at 20k hz it's 6 db quiter. So overall less high end and fizz. The volume however stays nearly the same, but the fizz seems to be cut of for whatever reason.
> 
> So now I cranked the master boost knob and compared the frequency curve with it enabled vs disabled. This is interesting.
> Left being the enabled master boost, right the disabled one:
> View attachment 84640
> 
> Here it's the exact opposite. The orange signal is the one with master boost knob turned up AND engaged. The right one is the same but master boost disengaged.
> In this case, with the master boost knob on the back panel maxed out, it's actually a little less bright and fizzy with the master boost disengaged. Exactly the opposite of what happens when the master boost knob was turned to 0. But I guess this is something you can compensate with EQ settings.
> 
> Ok so where is this coming from? I disengaged the master boost on the footswitch but compared how the amp sound changes by turning the knob. I suspected this, but wanted to make sure: The signals are the same. So when the master boost is switched off, the setting of the boost knob does not influence the amps voicing.
> View attachment 84641
> 
> 
> So far I've learned:
> Master boost knob turned down to 0, but master boost engaged: Least fizz / High End
> Master boost knob turned up, but master boost disengaged: More fizz / High End
> Master boost knob turned up and master boost actually engaged for more volume: Most fizz / High End
> 
> I guess this has something to do with the compression of the power section that's taking place depending on the master boost settings. So I repeated the tests above while cranking master volume and keeping post gain down. Because as you could see in the first image, cranking MV led to much more compression in the signal even in quite volumes. So my guess was that the effects of playing with the master boost is similar, but not as much noticable. So I do spare you the images to keep this post smaller, but in fact, the differences were pretty small.
> 
> MV cranked, Post gain down, master boost cranked: The difference between engaging and disengaging is neglectable. Mainly the bass below 60 hz changes a bit.
> V cranked, Post gain down, master boost on 0: The difference in between engaging and disengaging were almost similar to pre gain cranked, master volume turning down. Switching off the master boost on the foot pedal also reduced the high end and fizz, but this time the frequency started decreasing at 3k instead of 600k.
> 
> So playing with the master boost, engaging and disengaging it, even when the boost knob is set on 0, makes a big difference in high end and fizz.
> 
> Last but not least, I did a comparison of the sound with master volume cranked VS. post gain cranked. This is however kind of difficult, because when the post gain is cranked, using the master boost with various settings alters the sound at some point. So I compared the following two recording:
> 
> - Post gain cranked, MV down, Boost cranked and engaged
> - MV cranked, post gain down, Boost cranked and engaged
> 
> The result:
> 1. The sound is way more compressed, as you can see in the recorded signal of picture 1
> 2. The sonic differences were the following:
> View attachment 84643
> 
> Orange: MV cranked, Post gain down
> Blue: Post gain cranked, MV down
> 
> The main difference is a massive bass drop when cranking the master volume and keeping post gain down. In fact, cranking master volume and regulating the volume with post gain removes so much bass from the amp that it's not even visible on Ozone anymore. But it must be at least 12 db quiter.
> The mids up to 3k seem to be pretty much the same, with the heights above 6 k just being 1-2 db louder. (The white line is off due to volume differences in the recording)
> *
> So my summary of this test:*
> 1. Cranking the master volume and keeping post gain down was the fizziest, no matter how you set the boost. The boost will just change the amps voicing a little with this settings, but the fizz is there.
> 
> 2. Cranking the post gain instead while keeping master volume down to adjust the amp volume leads to a much bigger bass response and thicker sound. However the boost function of the amp can lead to weird fizz depending on the settings. Turning the boost button of the backside of the amp to 0 but still engaging the boost with your footswitch was giving the least fizz.
> 
> 3. With MV cranked, Post gain low, you have a way bigger compression going on, which might be desired by some guitarists.
> 
> 4. If you like the sound of the amp with MV cranked, but like the less compressed feel of the Post gain cranked, you can crank the post gain, turn down resonance a lot and increase presence just a little bit. This will bring you kind of into the same ball park while maintaining dynamics.
> 
> I hope you could follow along.  This should help with the crank MV vs post gain discussion and it's differences, as well as which settings are the least fizziest, at least at lower volumes. I'm too lazy to take some more hours repeating this with the amp cranked into the load box. Hope this will be useful for some of you...



This kind of in-depth testing and write-up is so refreshing! 

I'm so used to/tired of everything just saying "Wow that's so tight and aggressive" for every new amp/pickup/pick/bridge/cable/string/fret material/body shape


----------



## Ironbird666

The only time I've found mine to be fizzy is when I'm running it at low volumes. I run the channel masters and the boost cranked at all times and gigging volumes it sounds pretty similar to my old 5150, just a bit tighter and the upper mids seem to have more cut. It sounds fine enough at lower volumes to practice but I typically use a small practice amp at home for that anyway. Interesting to see you have issues with fizzy top end; I find it's similar to the 5150 in that it just wants to be played loudly to sound it's best. I play mine through an old marshall cab with V30's and K100's in a X pattern so I'm not sure how much of a difference that plays in keeping things a bit more smooth on the top end but at louder volumes it just sounds nice and meaty.


----------



## Deadpool_25

Blast Meat said:


> Welcome!
> 
> Can anyone of you maybe try these settings?
> 
> Lead Channel
> Everything at 5, gain at 4
> Post gain at 3, master volume at 1.
> 
> On my Invective this setting sounds like a hi gain amp sim without cab simulation, so much fizz it is ridiculous. Can anyone replicate this on his amp? This setting sounds like the amp is seriously broken. I like the sound I can get with cranked MV or Post Gain and the defizzerator in the loop. Can this be a hint for a broken tube in some of the stages? AFAIK there are 3 pre's/gain stages working for crunch an lead...
> 
> This is the sound, SM57 on cone edge...
> https://soundcloud.com/user-814170134/invective-fizz-test/s-oXrkgd4XJ50
> First half is with the settings mentioned above, second half is with post gain cranked. Seriously, are your amps sounding the same?
> 
> Edit: It's way worse in the room, but you can kind of hear the fizz and buzz on the recording...




I’m pretty sure I’ve done that and your recording doesn’t surprise me at all. There is definitely WAY more fizz with low post gain settings. Right now, I honestly don’t remember if I could compensate with the presence and high knobs. I didn’t think it was overly important though because I just dial the post gains up to 3:00 and then control the amp with the master volume and it sounds great, even at bedroom levels.


----------



## Deadpool_25

Meeotch said:


> /\ holy shit! All I remember when I owned this amp was that for low to medium volumes I greatly preferred post gain at lower settings. Higher post gain made the amp honky and congested in the mids. I didn't get anywhere near the level of tweaking with MV and master boost that you have documented. Thanks for the write up and it makes me want to revisit this amp and compare it to the 50w stealth.



Do it!


----------



## Meeotch

Deadpool_25 said:


> I’m pretty sure I’ve done that and your recording doesn’t surprise me at all. There is definitely WAY more fizz with low post gain settings. Right now, I honestly don’t remember if I could compensate with the presence and high knobs. I didn’t think it was overly important though because I just dial the post gains up to 3:00 and then control the amp with the master volume and it sounds great, even at bedroom levels.



Yeah, I do remember with VERY low post gain it was quite fizzy, but even in the 9-10 o'clock range it was fine for me, and preferred compared to 3 o'clock. Now one thing to keep in mind is that there are SO many variables at play here. For example, I can make my amp sound more fizzy just by stepping more into an on-axis position with my cab while playing. And my main cab is an EVH 412 with Greenbacks so a big difference to most people's V30 cabs. Even the Invective cab with it's v30/h75 mix can be pretty harsh and fizzy if you're not careful.

@Blast Meat I'd say you should definitely try rolling some preamp tubes through your amp to see if it fixes that. Fizzy or not fizzy, it should NOT be a total mess/unplayable.


----------



## Blast Meat

Thanks for all the replies guys...

I also tried moving the cab a little, trying different angles in the room. I noticed in the past that early reflections from a wall emphasize the fizz, so putting it in the corner of the room with some sort of 45 degree angle to any wall was the best sound. Buuuuuut it's still damn fizzy. (OK yes I am using v30's and a cheap Harley Benton cab, which is nice, but also on the brighter side, so maybe it's just too much with the Invective).

I'm fine with the sound with post gain at 3 pm, though. And at louder volumes this amp just sounds killer, just want to make sure I'm getting the very best out of this beauty that I possibly can. Imagine loving the sound but playing with a weird preamp tube for 2 years and then all of a sudden you hear what this amp is really capable of. 

I'm currently swapping the tubes and recording the results using a looper, so I can compare it. I'll also tell if swapping preamp tubes really makes a huge difference on this amp, but I just got 3 different TAD tubes to try. So far I tried swapping V1. The stock tube was a JJ. Swapped it with a TAD 12AX7WA-R. Absolutely 0 difference, gain and voicing wise. The Ozone Match EQ line is dead flat. Gonna swap v2 and v5. (Weird names, Peavey...)

Btw, regarding the master boost and fizz, I'll try to figure out the exact boost level where the sound doesn't change when boost is engaged for solos. With the boost engaged, turning the boost to 0 is the least fizziest, boost cranked is the most fizziest. Boost off was kind of medium in this regard. So I'll try to spot the exact setting of the boost where the heights of the frequencies don't change so you can boost it without a sound change. I guess it must be somewhere around 3 on the master boost settings.

Man, I should spend more time playing and practicing than running tests, but somehoe I can't stop this. 

Update:
Finished swapping all the pre's of crunch and lead. If you take a look from the front of the amp, the three gain stages for chrunch and lead are the second, third and fourth tube. The first one on the very left is not V1, it's for the clean channel. The two pre's next to the power tubes are for the FX loop and phase inversion.

So after all: Gain and Fizz were exactly the same. Tone wise nothing changed. Swapping the second and third gain stage (tube 3 and 4 from left to right) just emphasized the upper mids/treble from 1k to 6k by maybe half a db, so not worth the hassle in my opinion. However I tried two stock AX7 from TAD as well as an AX7 from Elextro Harmonix. 

All Pre's from this amp seem to be some decent JJ tubes. So I guess the amp is fine. Maybe I should try running the power tubes a little hotter? I don't know the plate voltage of the Invectives, but 26 mA per tube seems to be a bit cold? I don't mind playing with a higher bias and sacrificing just a little tube life, since swapping the tubes is not a pain in the ass thanks to the external bias points...


----------



## Blast Meat

Unluckily I can't edit my old post, so I have to make a new one. So a small recap in terms of how the master boost changes the sound when engaged.

Masterboost engaged, but knob on the backside of the amp turned completely down: Less fizz / High End
Masterboost disengaged: Regular fizz / High end for this amp
Masterboost engaged and set on 10: Most fizz / High end

So for those of you who want the high end of the amp to stay the same with and without boost, the perfect setting is: 4

Looks like this:



The only remaining difference is that when the boost is engaged, some of the bass is missing, but not too much. It starts getting noticable at 60 Hz downwards but it's not really any issue. I think it's more important that the high end stays the same. But you can still use this as a feature rather than a bug. If you want screaming leads, crank the MV, so the boost adds more volume and more treble. But I guess if you overdo this, the FOH might have trouble with your massive volume jumps between boost and non-boost...


----------



## FILTHnFEAR

For bedroom levels and band volume both I dime the master boost on the back, and keep the post gain higher and the MV lower. I keep the treble at noon or slightly more and crank the presence knob about 80% of the way. Helps keep the fizz down and makes it nice and articulate, cuts really nice.

It's definitely fizzier at lower volumes but the Ge-7 in the loop takes care of that. 

I'm surprised you can crank the post gain up to 3oclock and it's not ear bleeding. lol If I did that I'd barely be able to turn the MV up at all without instantly killing my cats. Haha

For the first 6 months I had it I was cranking the MV and keeping the channel volume low like I would with my H&K. It's infinitely better sounding the way I have it now. I wanted to kick myself for not trying it sooner.

I love this amp. It's the sound I've had in my head. I pretty much live on the crunch channel, so thick and chunky. When funds permit I'm going to pick up the matching 4x12 and retube it with KT88's. That should be interesting.

Glad you're digging the amp. It's definitely a lot of fun.


----------



## Blast Meat

Couldn't agree more about this, however I have to try the presence knob thing!

By the way, I ran another test yesterday, sonic differences between 120 and 60 watt mode. 60 watt removes a bit Form the very high end fizz and removes some bass below 60 hz. So for bedroom playing I definitely prefer 60 watts, it's not really quiter, but has even less fizz. 

Haha no, when I crank post gain of course I keep the master volume down, otherwise my neighbors would hunt me down. Unluckily my apartment is pretty thin walled... 

But I also prefer cranking post gain at lower volume, but I guess at stage volumes it doesn't make as much difference since you end up cranking one and running the other knob pretty high anyway...

But I get what you say about the tone in your head. This was exactly the same for me. I got so many amps and always thought "Damn, it sounds nice" but it was not the tone I was after. Same with the JVM... IMHO Marshall's #1 Amp because it got fender like cleans, Marshall cleans, low and high gain modes and the high gain really kicks ass, both available in vintage and modern voicing so one time, you can have it with typical Marshall eq behavior with the mids at 650 hz, and a modern voiced channel with the mids scooped more and centered around 500 hz. And while this amp sounds killer in my opinion, it doesn't sound like the tone in my head. Luckily the invective does


----------



## Deadpool_25

I did a test recently with the Invective vs the 6505. I set the 6505 up my favorite way: gain 4, BMTPR all at 6. Then I tried to dial the Invective to match. I was able to do so, but I had to dial the highs and presence back to about 4.5 to 5 and had to dial the low and resonance up to about 7.5 to 8. I don't remember having to do that before. Regardless it worked out very well and sounded the same. Interestingly, when I dimed the low and resonance on both the 6505 and Invective, they still sounded about the same as far as I could tell (through my custom 2x12).

I'd also heard a guy on here (sorry, can't remember who right now) mention he likes to use 5150/6505 green channel in "clean" mode but crank the gain. I can't get that tone using the Invective's clean channel because it doesn't break up that much, but I can get it on the crunch channel with moderate gain settings (3-4 IIRC).

Every good sound I get out of the 6505 I've been able to duplicate with the Invective. I still may keep the 6505 because the damn thing is just cool in its simplicity, but we'll see. With the Invective I'm not missing out on any of those great tones and I also get a superior clean and much better control.


----------



## Blast Meat

Thats some good stuff! Good to know since it's been a couple of years since I was truly able to spend time with a real 6505. Love to hear it's doing that sound.

Regarding Rythem: I guess your friend might be using the "clean" channel but with the boost knob engaged? I know that Machine Head uses their 6505's this way. They boost the Crunch channel because it has less fizz than the Lead channel. I tried this with the Invective as well and it works magically. The fizz you have with any gain setting on the lead channel disappears when you're in crunch with Gain below 7. You have to listen carefully in the crunch channel, when you crank the gain knob past 7 it suddenly adds a fizzy high frquency. If you stay below that and push the gain with the onboard boost instead, you can get some sick rythem tones without the fizz.


----------



## Deadpool_25

Blast Meat said:


> Regarding Rythem: I guess your friend might be using the "clean" channel but with the boost knob engaged?



The guy I mentioned was talking about the 5150 (or 6505; I forget which but same thing anyway), so no onboard boost. Just the 5150 rhythm channel on the clean mode (crunch button off) with pre gain dimed. On the Invective, the corresponding tone is on the crunch channel with low-to-mid pre gain. Hope that makes sense.


----------



## KailM

Deadpool_25 said:


> The guy I mentioned was talking about the 5150 (or 6505; I forget which but same thing anyway), so no onboard boost. Just the 5150 rhythm channel on the clean mode (crunch button off) with pre gain dimed. On the Invective, the corresponding tone is on the crunch channel with low-to-mid pre gain. Hope that makes sense.



That might have been me. I sometimes run my 6505’s clean channel that way (green channel, gain dimed, crunch boost off, but boosted with an OD pedal instead.)

It is pretty dynamic that way, and super chunky. Low output pickups might not be enough. It’s not fizzy, just percussive, tight, and great for technical palm muted riffs. You’ve got to pick harder to get it to grind and sound gainy, but if you do there’s enough gain for almost anything.


----------



## Deadpool_25

KailM said:


> That might have been me. I sometimes run my 6505’s clean channel that way (green channel, gain dimed, crunch boost off, but boosted with an OD pedal instead.)
> 
> It is pretty dynamic that way, and super chunky. Low output pickups might not be enough. It’s not fizzy, just percussive, tight, and great for technical palm muted riffs. You’ve got to pick harder to get it to grind and sound gainy, but if you do there’s enough gain for almost anything.



Yeah it probably was you. I like that tone. But I blame you and that comment for me buying the 6505 because I hadn’t run my old 5150 that way before I sold it and it got me curious if it was something the Invective couldn’t quite do. Turns out it can, just on the crunch channel. At least that was my initial impression.


----------



## Blast Meat

Ah yeah, I get what you mean. Damn did the 6505 have so much gain on the rythem channel without crunch enabled? Crazy...

I think this doesn't really work on the Invective anymore since the clean channel is really super clean. I hooked it up on my loadbox and cranked the amp and even in 60 watt mode I barely can get it to overdrive even when using EMG's. 

I just spent the entire day with this amp and I totally love the sound. So I run it at 60 watts now, post gain between 8 and 9, mv pretty low. The defizzerator in the loop does an awesome job removing the fizz without removing the treble. I don't know how this thing works, but you enable the loop and bam - Fizz is gone while the amp sounds the same. It's insane. Even when you now crank presence, the fizz is gone. This thing is like a secret weapon for fizzy amps.

Never got such a decent low volume sound and I keep playing this amp for hours, but didn't even mind changin the EQ of the lead channel. Everything is at noon, presence and resonance as well. With the in built boost the flubby bass gets tamed and it's just instant butter. Without changing the gain I can play hi gain rock licks and 5 seconds later I can play some Machine Head stuff and it immediately sounds like this. It just sounds like the good old recordings with the block letter 5150 they still use. No joke, I spent 6 years as a boy chasing this tone, even wrote a Mail to Machine Head asking them what Amp, Effects, Pickups etc. they used. Of course no one replied. 

But still figured it out after years and countless interviews and internet research. Anyway... It's nice to have the final ingredient to their tone: 5150/6505/Invective.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Man, these posts make me want an Invective. The built in boost and noise gate are really handy as well as the master volume and powered loops. But then I come down to earth and realize my 5150II and my Fractal AX8 thru the effects loop is basically an Invective with more pre amp options. lol


----------



## Deadpool_25

MASS DEFECT said:


> Man, these posts make me want an Invective. The built in boost and noise gate are really handy as well as the master volume and powered loops. But then I come down to earth and realize my 5150II and my Fractal AX8 thru the effects loop is basically an Invective with more pre amp options. lol



Yeah I think a good modeler through a decent FX loop is way more capable than an individual amp. The AX8 definitely qualifies lol. Honestly I don’t even know why I have all these amps when the FM3 through an FX loop sounds and feels just as good. That’s one reason I’m likely going to sell the 6505 and the Super Kraken. Not only are the BE and Invective incredible on their own, they also have excellent FX loops. 

That reminds me, at some point I should compare the Fractal BE to the real thing. Meh. Maybe not. I’m getting tired of comparisons. I really need to just _play_.


----------



## katsumura78

The gear choices in 2020 are so awesome. The invective is a beast and honestly I don’t see a lot of talk about it online (besides this thread ). It does so many things well and is a lot of bang for your buck. I love the Axe Fx but there’s no way in hell I’m selling the invective. It’s too good. If anyone reading this is on the fence about it then get it. You won’t regret it. @Deadpool_25 I’d love to hear BE vs Fractal BE. That 100 Deluxe is on the GAS list lol.


----------



## Blast Meat

Hey all,

I've spent a couple of days recording a very long video about the Peavey Invective and put it on a new channel that is meant for our new band project:



Maybe you'll enjoy watching it and learn some things about tweaking it, but it's actually everything I wrote in my last posts packed into a 1+ hour long video. In this case you might also let me know whether the recorded guitar is clipping for you. Our drummer and I checked it on like 10 differend devices and everywhere the sound is ok. Except using the YouTube app on my Xbox, there my guitar clips. No Idea why, but yeah. In case you encounter issues with the sound I'd really appreaciate if you let me know so I can actually try to fix this. If not, I can keep it the way it is.

Let me know what you think!

Cheers


----------



## King Belial

katsumura78 said:


> The gear choices in 2020 are so awesome. The invective is a beast and honestly I don’t see a lot of talk about it online (besides this thread ). It does so many things well and is a lot of bang for your buck. I love the Axe Fx but there’s no way in hell I’m selling the invective. It’s too good. If anyone reading this is on the fence about it then get it. You won’t regret it. @Deadpool_25 I’d love to hear BE vs Fractal BE. That 100 Deluxe is on the GAS list lol.



paired up with a mesa oversized 4x12... get the big boy or the mh? does the invective have the same characteristics as the 5150? i like tight but i also like low end


----------



## katsumura78

The invective doesn’t lack in the low end department I can tell you that much. I’d get the big amp. Life is too short to play 20 watts lol.


----------



## Blast Meat

King Belial said:


> paired up with a mesa oversized 4x12... get the big boy or the mh? does the invective have the same characteristics as the 5150? i like tight but i also like low end


It has a ton of low end unless you engage the on board boost which is designed after a Maxon OD 808 or a Ts9. I play it with my bright 2x12 cab at home and I get way more bass (still tight) than with my Hughes and Kettner or Marshall Jvm 410h.

And it is definitely an improved 6505, the lead channel is just a little different in the bass response because it had a different output transformer than the 6505 to improve tightness when using down tuned guitars. But the clean channel stays clean even with emg's and fully cranked, I'm showing this in the video as well. The small invective will sound different because the el84 are similar to el34 rather than 6l6 and the smaller transformers will bring less low end tightness. And the lower you tune your guitar, the more beneficial a high wattage power section with appropriately scaled output transformer.

In my video I was recording the invective with a reactive load box and some quality Mesa ir's from ownhammer, but the sound is not processed. But it is not how it will sound in the room, still will give you an idea how the Invectice 120 sounds through a recorded Mesa cab.

I totally don't regret getting the 120...

Edit: It's now also my fav amp for bedroom practice. There are three important things that remove fizz when you play quietly and I explain them in the tone tweaking tips section of the video. In fact it made me stop using my Peavey vypyr with the 6505 model that I used for bedroom practice the last 6 years and it sounds better at low volume than any other tube amp I got.


----------



## narad

katsumura78 said:


> The invective doesn’t lack in the low end department I can tell you that much. I’d get the big amp. Life is too short to play 20 watts lol.



20 watts is like for religious people that need to inflict suffering upon themselves in order to find enlightenment or forgiveness.


----------



## metaljohn

King Belial said:


> paired up with a mesa oversized 4x12... get the big boy or the mh? does the invective have the same characteristics as the 5150? i like tight but i also like low end



Get the 120, unless it's completely out of your budget. I use mine with a Mesa OS 4x12 and it's *chef's kiss*

It's also quite easy to get a tight sound with good low end. I keep the bass around 10-11 o clock and the resonance around 1-2 o clock on channel 2 with the boost engaged for C#. Mileage may vary depending on your tuning.


----------



## Blast Meat

Bass at 12 and resonance at 2 o clock, post gain on 3 o clock and mv to taste

Note that if you try this amp, cranking mv and keeping post gain low removes bass a lot. The more post gain you add, the more bass and mids you get. I measured this and this has also been confirmed by Misha. And get used to keep either of both knobs to at least 14 o clock,using the other one for volume control. Otherwise you end up sounding like my grandmother with diarrhea.


----------



## Deadpool_25

King Belial said:


> paired up with a mesa oversized 4x12... get the big boy or the mh? does the invective have the same characteristics as the 5150? i like tight but i also like low end




Talking about the big boy:
The Invective’s crunch and lead channels are basically identical to the 5150/6505. The circuit is the same. There is a difference in presence that resides in the power section. According to John Fields difference not only makes the amp brighter in the high end, it also affects the resonance making it seem like there’s a bit less low end. However in a side by side test if you crank the bass and resonance to max on both the Invective and the 6505 the low end is the same. So if you want to use the Invective to replicate the tones of the 5150/6505 just dial in a bit more bass and resonance, and a bit less presence.


----------



## Blast Meat

@Deadpool_25 do you roughly know how these knobs were set? That's interesting because I actually end up having resonance at around 2 o clock and I cut a little bit of the high end fizz with the defizzerator in the fx loop, this way I like the sound the most...


----------



## runbirdman

I’m really curious about when the 120 is going to start being fulfilled. I’m 60 days into a preorder. I know the people who purchased the MH have waited much longer but it’d be nice to get a ballpark ETA and it doesn’t seem like anyone knows. I think Peavey had production issues even before COVID so I suspect it could be next year before I get mine.


----------



## Deadpool_25

Blast Meat said:


> @Deadpool_25 do you roughly know how these knobs were set? That's interesting because I actually end up having resonance at around 2 o clock and I cut a little bit of the high end fizz with the defizzerator in the fx loop, this way I like the sound the most...



How the knobs were set for what? When I did some side by side testing?


----------



## Deadpool_25

runbirdman said:


> I’m really curious about when the 120 is going to start being fulfilled. I’m 60 days into a preorder. I know the people who purchased the MH have waited much longer but it’d be nice to get a ballpark ETA and it doesn’t seem like anyone knows. I think Peavey had production issues even before COVID so I suspect it could be next year before I get mine.




Interesting. I didn’t realize they’d gotten hard to find again.


----------



## Blast Meat

Deadpool_25 said:


> How the knobs were set for what? When I did some side by side testing?


Yes exactly, I mean the setting of presence and resonance that sounded like the 6505. Would be awesome to know


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Hey Invective owners. Anybody got a good EVH sound from the crunch channel? Like the blue channel on 50w EVH 5153? Something like a tight crunch, almost Marshall-y sound that is good for 80s hair metal. 

I know the 6505+ can do that but I don't know if the Invective can. It sounds looser and has tons of gain even on the crunch channel on video demos.


----------



## Blast Meat

Well, I could record a riff in a looper and plug it into my Marshall JVM and Invective so you get to hear what's the difference between the real British Crunch vs the Invective Crunch sound. But I guess this is not really what you're looking after.

I assume (Really don't know for sure) that they should be almost identical, except the minor sound change due to the different output transformer. The gain stages seem to be the same as far as I have researched.

Peavey 5150: V1, V2, V5, V3, V4 (This order the signal passes through in all channels. "Clean", Crunch and Lead)
V1, V2 and V5 are the gain stages. (These are the weird names Peavey uses). V3 is the loop and V4 the phase inverter.

Invective: Pretty much the same, except the clean channel is kept out of these three gain stages. (The Invective has a separate Preamp tube/circuit for cleans only, which is why it is actually clean)

So as far as I know Crunch and Lead share the same circuit on the Invective, as well as the Crunch channel/mode from the 5150 did. So if the Lead channel of the Invective really sounds the same (except the different output transofrmer), the crunch channel must also sound identical to the 5150. At least this is what I think after taking a look at the gain stages and signal paths.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Blast Meat said:


> Well, I could record a riff in a looper and plug it into my Marshall JVM and Invective so you get to hear what's the difference between the real British Crunch vs the Invective Crunch sound. But I guess this is not really what you're looking after.
> 
> I assume (Really don't know for sure) that they should be almost identical, except the minor sound change due to the different output transformer. The gain stages seem to be the same as far as I have researched.
> 
> Peavey 5150: V1, V2, V5, V3, V4 (This order the signal passes through in all channels. "Clean", Crunch and Lead)
> V1, V2 and V5 are the gain stages. (These are the weird names Peavey uses). V3 is the loop and V4 the phase inverter.
> 
> Invective: Pretty much the same, except the clean channel is kept out of these three gain stages. (The Invective has a separate Preamp tube/circuit for cleans only, which is why it is actually clean)
> 
> So as far as I know Crunch and Lead share the same circuit on the Invective, as well as the Crunch channel/mode from the 5150 did. So if the Lead channel of the Invective really sounds the same (except the different output transofrmer), the crunch channel must also sound identical to the 5150. At least this is what I think after taking a look at the gain stages and signal paths.



Thanks for the thorough explanation. If it is identical to the 5150 crunch then I'd assume it is fatter than the EVH 5153 crunch. I suppose you can get a tighter crunch sound with the clean section boosted with the built-in od?


----------



## Blast Meat

MASS DEFECT said:


> Thanks for the thorough explanation. If it is identical to the 5150 crunch then I'd assume it is fatter than the EVH 5153 crunch. I suppose you can get a tighter crunch sound with the clean section boosted with the built-in od?



Nah unluckily not, the clean channel is just really good for cleans. The boost will ad just a little bit of "tube saturation like" overdrive, but it's pretty dark. I would really stick to the crunch channel. It actually sounds very similar to my Marshall JVM on OD1 Orange mode (Which is like a hot rodded JCM 800 with an extra gain stage)

The Pre-Gain on clean is not really adding gain, but volume. And then the 6l6 tubes start to saturate, which by far doesn't sound as nice as when you do this to a Marshall with EL34 power tubes. I can explain it to you in case you're interested but I'd really just use the clean channel for clean and bluesy clean tones.

I just made a quick recording for you:
https://soundcloud.com/user-814170134/invective-clean-vs-crunch/s-IdxTdGzZvox

1. Take is the Clean with OD activated. I had to crank treble on both the boost and EQ, but it is still very dark
2. Is Crunch channel with Pre Gain and EQ on Noon. No boost.
3. Is Crunch, but with boost activated. (Level and Tone are at noon, too)

Another recording:
https://soundcloud.com/user-814170134/invective-vs-jvm/s-rLsAE4vkslx

This is the Invective and the Marshall JVM straight into a reactive load box using some cab IR's. Invective is the first half, my Marshall JVM the second. I was recording this riff into a looper, feeding the exact same signal in both amps. So only the amps have changed in this recording setup, everything else is 100% the same.

Settings: Everything at noon, except the JVM's gain was at 9 o clock because it has a shitload of gain.

Take a look of the amps frequency:



The Marshall Crunch sounds a little brighter, crisper and has less mids, whereas the Peavey sounds like a Peavey, heavy, thick and dark voiced. Way more mids and bass. This is funny, because a lot of people think british tones have tons of midrange, but actually the marshall sound consists of a very thin and bright sound. Far less bass than the Peavey Invective.

To explain what you see:
The left frequency curve is the Invective (the second recording I made for you) and the second curve is the real Marshall. The white line shows an EQ-Profile to make the Marshall sound like the peavey. So you can see the Marshall has way less bass below 60 Hz. The low mids between ~150 and 600 Hz are actually 1-2 db quiter than the Invective. Then the Marshall is a lot brighter between 1000 and ~7000-8000 Hz, which is the "presence" frequency that make the guitar sound in your face, but also pretty harsh. And then again, the very top end, 10k and above is much lauder on the Invective, causing the very bright top end fizz we associate with the 5150 fizz.

So to sound more like a Marshall (at least like my JVM) you can turn down mids and add more treble and cut off the very top end, but you can't do this with the presence control since this starts to effect the frequencies from 1000 hz onwards. (I measured this on a lot of amps). So you would need some kind of EQ pedal in the loop to just get rid to the frequencies above 10k Hz. (Which is why I use the Amptweaker Defizzerator in the FX loop of many of my amps. You can cut this above 10k fizz without affecting the treble of your amp)


It works well with less gain, and if you add more gain you can easily use it for metal rythem (which is what many bands did with the 5150, too)
The fizz you hear is the typical 5150 sound due to the three gain stages the signal has to pass before hitting the powertube stage. They add a lot of upper frequency content and harmonics.

Anyway, I would really stick to the crunch channel with the Invective when you're aiming to play rock and mid gain stuff...

Edit: BTW I am running my bias at stock values (26 mA per tube) so it is pretty cold. I think it will sound a bit smoother and warmer when you set it a little higher, which is quickly done on the Invective. I remember some people in this thread saying that rising the bias was improving the tone for them a lot.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Blast Meat said:


> Nah unluckily not, the clean channel is just really good for cleans. The boost will ad just a little bit of "tube saturation like" overdrive, but it's pretty dark. I would really stick to the crunch channel. It actually sounds very similar to my Marshall JVM on OD1 Orange mode (Which is like a hot rodded JCM 800 with an extra gain stage)
> 
> The Pre-Gain on clean is not really adding gain, but volume. And then the 6l6 tubes start to saturate, which by far doesn't sound as nice as when you do this to a Marshall with EL34 power tubes. I can explain it to you in case you're interested but I'd really just use the clean channel for clean and bluesy clean tones.
> 
> I just made a quick recording for you:
> https://soundcloud.com/user-814170134/invective-clean-vs-crunch/s-IdxTdGzZvox
> 
> 1. Take is the Clean with OD activated. I had to crank treble on both the boost and EQ, but it is still very dark
> 2. Is Crunch channel with Pre Gain and EQ on Noon. No boost.
> 3. Is Crunch, but with boost activated. (Level and Tone are at noon, too)
> 
> Another recording:
> https://soundcloud.com/user-814170134/invective-vs-jvm/s-rLsAE4vkslx
> 
> This is the Invective and the Marshall JVM straight into a reactive load box using some cab IR's. Invective is the first half, my Marshall JVM the second. I was recording this riff into a looper, feeding the exact same signal in both amps. So only the amps have changed in this recording setup, everything else is 100% the same.
> 
> Settings: Everything at noon, except the JVM's gain was at 9 o clock because it has a shitload of gain.
> 
> Take a look of the amps frequency:
> View attachment 85249
> 
> 
> The Marshall Crunch sounds a little brighter, crisper and has less mids, whereas the Peavey sounds like a Peavey, heavy, thick and dark voiced. Way more mids and bass. This is funny, because a lot of people think british tones have tons of midrange, but actually the marshall sound consists of a very thin and bright sound. Far less bass than the Peavey Invective.
> 
> To explain what you see:
> The left frequency curve is the Invective (the second recording I made for you) and the second curve is the real Marshall. The white line shows an EQ-Profile to make the Marshall sound like the peavey. So you can see the Marshall has way less bass below 60 Hz. The low mids between ~150 and 600 Hz are actually 1-2 db quiter than the Invective. Then the Marshall is a lot brighter between 1000 and ~7000-8000 Hz, which is the "presence" frequency that make the guitar sound in your face, but also pretty harsh. And then again, the very top end, 10k and above is much lauder on the Invective, causing the very bright top end fizz we associate with the 5150 fizz.
> 
> So to sound more like a Marshall (at least like my JVM) you can turn down mids and add more treble and cut off the very top end, but you can't do this with the presence control since this starts to effect the frequencies from 1000 hz onwards. (I measured this on a lot of amps). So you would need some kind of EQ pedal in the loop to just get rid to the frequencies above 10k Hz. (Which is why I use the Amptweaker Defizzerator in the FX loop of many of my amps. You can cut this above 10k fizz without affecting the treble of your amp)
> 
> 
> It works well with less gain, and if you add more gain you can easily use it for metal rythem (which is what many bands did with the 5150, too)
> The fizz you hear is the typical 5150 sound due to the three gain stages the signal has to pass before hitting the powertube stage. They add a lot of upper frequency content and harmonics.
> 
> Anyway, I would really stick to the crunch channel with the Invective when you're aiming to play rock and mid gain stuff...
> 
> Edit: BTW I am running my bias at stock values (26 mA per tube) so it is pretty cold. I think it will sound a bit smoother and warmer when you set it a little higher, which is quickly done on the Invective. I remember some people in this thread saying that rising the bias was improving the tone for them a lot.



Man, I appreciate the effort that went into this! I'll go find some quality cans when I get home and listen to the clips. I've tried a JVM 205 and I do like those crunch sounds. Easy to dial in some 60s and 70s rock tones. 

When my band mate had an Invective, I remember it being brighter than a 6505 while retaining that low mid rawness. The Treble and presence pots have more useable range, at least. Too bad, I didn't get to try the crunch channel before he moved on to an EVH 6L6.


----------



## Deadpool_25

Blast Meat said:


> Yes exactly, I mean the setting of presence and resonance that sounded like the 6505. Would be awesome to know



6505 / Invective:
Gain: 4.5 / 4.5
Low: 6 / 8
Mid: 4.5 / 4.5
High: 6 / 4.5
Resonance: 6 / 7.5
Presence: 7 / 5

Invective had master boost on 10, full power, post gain 8, boost and gate off. Master volume 1.

6505 post gain was on 1.

Both amps connected to my custom 2x12 with a V30 and a Creamback. Mesa Headtrack used for a/b switching. 

I think that’s about it.


----------



## Blast Meat

Deadpool_25 said:


> 6505 / Invective:
> Gain: 4.5 / 4.5
> Low: 6 / 8
> Mid: 4.5 / 4.5
> High: 6 / 4.5
> Resonance: 6 / 7.5
> Presence: 7 / 5
> 
> Invective had master boost on 10, full power, post gain 8, boost and gate off. Master volume 1.
> 
> 6505 post gain was on 1.
> 
> Both amps connected to my custom 2x12 with a V30 and a Creamback. Mesa Headtrack used for a/b switching.
> 
> I think that’s about it.


Thank you! 
I will try these settings today after work. Can't wait! I'm going to compare your settings to the darker sound produces by less master boost. I'm curious how similar the invective sounds without the additional treble caused by the mb, maybe then it comes also close to the 6505 without putting treble and presence down a little. Man I should play and practice instead of doing this


----------



## Deadpool_25

MASS DEFECT said:


> Hey Invective owners. Anybody got a good EVH sound from the crunch channel? Like the blue channel on 50w EVH 5153? Something like a tight crunch, almost Marshall-y sound that is good for 80s hair metal.
> 
> I know the 6505+ can do that but I don't know if the Invective can. It sounds looser and has tons of gain even on the crunch channel on video demos.



Again I’ll say I found the tones from the 6505 in the Invective (except the clean of course). My understanding is the 6505 isn’t as tight and has less gain compared to the 6505+. From everything I’ve heard invective was based on a block letter 5150. However the Invective has a presence “mod”which also decreases low end. That, along with the onboard boost let the amp get plenty tight. 

The crunch channel with quite low gain settings might be in the ballpark. In most video demos the guys seem to want to start with everything at noon and then they are hesitant to deviate far from that. There are some really good tones with lower gain settings though. 

On the 6505, you can ballpark that tone in the “clean” mode with a high gain setting (or perhaps the crunch mode with a low gain setting—is it my imagination or is there overlap in those two?).


----------



## Deadpool_25

Blast Meat said:


> Thank you!
> I will try these settings today after work. Can't wait! I'm going to compare your settings to the darker sound produces by less master boost. I'm curious how similar the invective sounds without the additional treble caused by the mb, maybe then it comes also close to the 6505 without putting treble and presence down a little. Man I should play and practice instead of doing this



When I had my 5150 I a/b’d it with the Invective and I don’t remember needing to change the tone knobs. I wonder if I had the master boost on and if I was at full or half power. Honestly can’t remember but I probably posted it in this thread a long time ago lol


----------



## runbirdman

If anyone’s curious, the next run of Invective 120s will start shipping between mid-December and early January next year per Peavey. I was really hoping it wouldn’t be quite that long but the Invective checks a lot of boxes for me so at least now I have an estimate.


----------



## I play music

runbirdman said:


> I’m really curious about when the 120 is going to start being fulfilled. I’m 60 days into a preorder. I know the people who purchased the MH have waited much longer but it’d be nice to get a ballpark ETA and it doesn’t seem like anyone knows. I think Peavey had production issues even before COVID so I suspect it could be next year before I get mine.





runbirdman said:


> If anyone’s curious, the next run of Invective 120s will start shipping between mid-December and early January next year per Peavey. I was really hoping it wouldn’t be quite that long but the Invective checks a lot of boxes for me so at least now I have an estimate.


Just get some other amp man, there are hundreds out there ...

used 5150 style amps can be had for quite affordable btw


----------



## Blast Meat

I play music said:


> Just get some other amp man, there are hundreds out there ...
> 
> used 5150 style amps can be had for quite affordable btw


I guess he needs the invective for the same reason as some of us. 5150 sound, but midi, clean channel and 3 real channels...


----------



## I play music

Blast Meat said:


> I guess he needs the invective for the same reason as some of us. 5150 sound, but midi, clean channel and 3 real channels...


Sounds like things you could want to play live but who's really gigging these days? For recording you don't need that


----------



## Blast Meat

I play music said:


> Sounds like things you could want to play live but who's really gigging these days? For recording you don't need that


Ok at the moment there really aren't a lot of gigging options. 

But personally what I like about the Invective is that it has everything you could possibly need in any situation that might come up. If you just need hi gain sounds and play in a metal band I'd prefer the 6505 or 5150, too. Due to the price... 

But the invective is like a Swiss knive and while you might not need it now, there will be a point where you miss certain features. At least this happened to me more than once during the past 16 years of tone hunt.


----------



## I play music

Blast Meat said:


> But the invective is like a Swiss knive and while you might not need it now, there will be a point where you miss certain features. At least this happened to me more than once during the past 16 years of tone hunt.


Personally I found out I never use all the extra features that I thought I could need at some point


----------



## Blast Meat

Well it really depends. 

I have to say that I was using the past months to study seven! books about harmony, taking notes and repeatingly learning them. So far I learned 300 questions about harmony, scales, modes, chords, modal interchange and very jazz specific stuff because I want to make use of some new sounds rather than playing the same pentatonic licks. And during this time I found out how much I need different sounds (including clean) for practice and writing stuff, practicing writing different pieces in different genres and so on.

Personally for me I need every single feature the Invective has.

1. I was annoyed to activate my Maxon OD 808 manually when switching to rhythem sounds. Playing clean was not able because it always adds some slight distortion, even through a Fender type clean circuit. Having the onboard boost allows me to switch channels and the boost at the same time without activating 20 buttons.

2. Same for programmable FX loops. Store a lead delay preset and the loop with delay will be activated. No more pressing 2 buttons twice

3. 60 Watt mode is nice due to sound (attenuates 10k'ish fizz) and due to the fact that my reactive load is restricted to 100 watt only, but I can flick a switch and blow my apartment up if needed. 

4. I actually need all the channels of the invective

5. I also need midi, was a main criteria. Sometimes I use a Boss GT 1000 as midi controller and using the 4 cable method (of course without the Boss amp sims, but real amps instead) you can save unlimited effects and presets and the GT 1000 will switch channels and Features of the real amp. So you can use the GT 1000 as a Footswitch with 250 presets if needed. (I mean 250 presets is just over the top, I know...) 

6. Having two loops is nice, too. I keep the defizzerator in Loop 2 to cut off fizz that you can't dial out with the presence knob. And I still can use my delay in Loop 1.

7. The FX power jacks on the amp are nice. Somebody said this is bullshit because there will be ground loops or buzz, but I never had the slightes noises due to the current flow. So it works. And I always use it because long cables in the loop remove high frequencies from your sound and when on stage, it's nice to not run your signal through 50 feet of cable before it hits the speaker. You may say it's impossible to hear, but I actually measured the impact of different cables and there is. And it's more audible than you think. So beiong able to control the effects (by actually controlling the two loops) is nice to keep the cables short --> pristine tone

8. I also use the gate, because this is one more FX unit I can keep away from my pedal board. Plus it is programmable, too. So if you want to play leads without a gate to not get cut off when sustaining long notes? Store a preset and everything will be switched with one tap.

9. External bias points: Is a MUST HAVE for me, seriously. I insist on playing tube amps (whereas if you show me a recording of the real amp vs an axe fx, they will both sound good) but I still prefer playing tube amps. Simply because I love these glowing bulbs. But I want an amp that doesn't need to be entirely taken apart for biasing.

10. Due to the external bias points you actually have a 5150 with bias mod, but you don't have to get your amp modded. If you like higher bias, turn it up. Ah and of course everyone complaining about this amp having 6l6 tubes can switch to KT88, 6550 and EL34. You just need to re-bias, which is done in 5 minutes. Some people also like to mod their 5150 to use different tubes.

The only thing I don't really need is the master boost and the DI out because I am running my heads into a hardware IR loader post power section and then into a cab for monitoring on stage. But the signal is actually a mesa 4x12 IR straight to the FOH. Everything else is exactly what I have always wanted on my dream amp, including the real 6505/5150 sound.

Long story short: If you need it, it's great value for the money. If you don't need it, get a 6505 and a Maxon OD 808/Ibanez TS9. But 10 years ago the lead channel of the 6505 would have been everything I need. But my needs have changed a lot during the past decade...


----------



## runbirdman

I play music said:


> Just get some other amp man, there are hundreds out there ...
> 
> used 5150 style amps can be had for quite affordable btw



I have other amps. I specifically sold an EVH 5150 III to fund the Invective due to the extra features. I have moved away from the Helix in 4CM so the two effects loops will enable me to have an always on delay, harmonic tremolo, and reverb assigned to a wet clean channel and a separate delay and reverb unit for the overdrive channels. The separate boosts will probably come in handy and MIDI control is a feature all high end amps should come with and for some reason the 100 watt EVH amps don’t have it. There aren’t a lot of amps in the price range that have a similar feature set. JVM410H and some of the Engl offerings are pretty similar but the JVM wasn’t quite as good at the modded Marshall sound as channel 1 of my Uberschall and Engl amps have an outrageous markup in the states. I have the Recto sound covered with the MW so the Archon doesn’t interest me as much. Other than those there aren’t a whole lot of competitive products that I’m aware of.

I have been working to move a lot of gear that wasn’t seeing much use and now I have a MW Recto and Uberschall TJ until the Invective arrives.


----------



## Deadpool_25

Been asked a couple times now so FWIW the Invective footswitch Dimensions are:

12.5 x 6.75 x 2.5


----------



## Deadpool_25

As good as the clean channel is, I was wishing it was more sparkly and was more Fenderish. On a whim, I reached out to John Fields to see if that could be done. John is the guy who worked with Misha and designed the Invective. He said it was pretty easy so I sent it off to him.

I got it back today and, long story short, mission accomplished. It sounds VERY Fenderish now. I played it side by side with my Vibrolux (both through my 2x12) and other than the Vibrolux having more low end (too much if you don’t dial it back) the Invective clean now sounds very, very much the same.


----------



## beavis2306

Deadpool_25 said:


> As good as the clean channel is, I was wishing it was more sparkly and was more Fenderish. On a whim, I reached out to John Fields to see if that could be done. John is the guy who worked with Misha and designed the Invective. He said it was pretty easy so I sent it off to him.
> 
> I got it back today and, long story short, mission accomplished. It sounds VERY Fenderish now. I played it side by side with my Vibrolux (both through my 2x12) and other than the Vibrolux having more low end (too much if you don’t dial it back) the Invective clean now sounds very, very much the same.



Are you still able to get the cleans you could but with more sparkle capability now or have you lost something?


----------



## FILTHnFEAR

Deadpool_25 said:


> As good as the clean channel is, I was wishing it was more sparkly and was more Fenderish. On a whim, I reached out to John Fields to see if that could be done. John is the guy who worked with Misha and designed the Invective. He said it was pretty easy so I sent it off to him.
> 
> I got it back today and, long story short, mission accomplished. It sounds VERY Fenderish now. I played it side by side with my Vibrolux (both through my 2x12) and other than the Vibrolux having more low end (too much if you don’t dial it back) the Invective clean now sounds very, very much the same.



What did he do to it?

I love the cleans, but find myself using the eq in the loop to boost some high end.


----------



## Deadpool_25

FILTHnFEAR said:


> What did he do to it?
> 
> I love the cleans, but find myself using the eq in the loop to boost some high end.



When I asked him if it was doable he said yes. He said he didn’t want to say exactly what the mod was but that he’d be happy to do it. He documented everything. Also when I mentioned it had less low end than my Vibrolux he said he would provide me pics and info to take to someone if I wanted. He also offered that I could send it back for a free adjustment if I wasn’t happy with it.


----------



## metaljohn

One thing I've kinda been wondering lately, is if it's possible to mod the amp to change where one of the loops are in the signal chain? For example, having a Pre and Post loop (like the Amptweaker Tight Metal Pro) with the Pre loop being between the preamp and the noise gate. I sometimes use other boost pedals in front (Abominable Electronics Evil Ned mostly) and they completely overwhelm the built in noise gate (that and it would be nice to have them switched off when I switch to the clean channel)


----------



## Deadpool_25

Interesting question. Shoot John Fields a message on FB. He’s a really cool and helpful dude. Let me know if you have trouble finding him.


----------



## bluffalo

Has anyone in Australia had any luck being able to buy one yet? It's been years now.....


----------



## Thrashman

If only I knew I needed to have gigs booked in order to own an amplifier..


----------



## beavis2306

bluffalo said:


> Has anyone in Australia had any luck being able to buy one yet? It's been years now.....



I think they had em at better music for a little while but they're gone again. Fukn hopeless


----------



## Deadpool_25

I suspect a shipment is on its way across the pond.


----------



## Bearitone

Blast Meat said:


> Well it really depends.
> 
> I have to say that I was using the past months to study seven! books about harmony, taking notes and repeatingly learning them. So far I learned 300 questions about harmony, scales, modes, chords, modal interchange and very jazz specific stuff because I want to make use of some new sounds rather than playing the same pentatonic licks. And during this time I found out how much I need different sounds (including clean) for practice and writing stuff, practicing writing different pieces in different genres and so on.
> 
> Personally for me I need every single feature the Invective has.
> 
> 1. I was annoyed to activate my Maxon OD 808 manually when switching to rhythem sounds. Playing clean was not able because it always adds some slight distortion, even through a Fender type clean circuit. Having the onboard boost allows me to switch channels and the boost at the same time without activating 20 buttons.
> 
> 2. Same for programmable FX loops. Store a lead delay preset and the loop with delay will be activated. No more pressing 2 buttons twice
> 
> 3. 60 Watt mode is nice due to sound (attenuates 10k'ish fizz) and due to the fact that my reactive load is restricted to 100 watt only, but I can flick a switch and blow my apartment up if needed.
> 
> 4. I actually need all the channels of the invective
> 
> 5. I also need midi, was a main criteria. Sometimes I use a Boss GT 1000 as midi controller and using the 4 cable method (of course without the Boss amp sims, but real amps instead) you can save unlimited effects and presets and the GT 1000 will switch channels and Features of the real amp. So you can use the GT 1000 as a Footswitch with 250 presets if needed. (I mean 250 presets is just over the top, I know...)
> 
> 6. Having two loops is nice, too. I keep the defizzerator in Loop 2 to cut off fizz that you can't dial out with the presence knob. And I still can use my delay in Loop 1.
> 
> 7. The FX power jacks on the amp are nice. Somebody said this is bullshit because there will be ground loops or buzz, but I never had the slightes noises due to the current flow. So it works. And I always use it because long cables in the loop remove high frequencies from your sound and when on stage, it's nice to not run your signal through 50 feet of cable before it hits the speaker. You may say it's impossible to hear, but I actually measured the impact of different cables and there is. And it's more audible than you think. So beiong able to control the effects (by actually controlling the two loops) is nice to keep the cables short --> pristine tone
> 
> 8. I also use the gate, because this is one more FX unit I can keep away from my pedal board. Plus it is programmable, too. So if you want to play leads without a gate to not get cut off when sustaining long notes? Store a preset and everything will be switched with one tap.
> 
> 9. External bias points: Is a MUST HAVE for me, seriously. I insist on playing tube amps (whereas if you show me a recording of the real amp vs an axe fx, they will both sound good) but I still prefer playing tube amps. Simply because I love these glowing bulbs. But I want an amp that doesn't need to be entirely taken apart for biasing.
> 
> 10. Due to the external bias points you actually have a 5150 with bias mod, but you don't have to get your amp modded. If you like higher bias, turn it up. Ah and of course everyone complaining about this amp having 6l6 tubes can switch to KT88, 6550 and EL34. You just need to re-bias, which is done in 5 minutes. Some people also like to mod their 5150 to use different tubes.
> 
> The only thing I don't really need is the master boost and the DI out because I am running my heads into a hardware IR loader post power section and then into a cab for monitoring on stage. But the signal is actually a mesa 4x12 IR straight to the FOH. Everything else is exactly what I have always wanted on my dream amp, including the real 6505/5150 sound.
> 
> Long story short: If you need it, it's great value for the money. If you don't need it, get a 6505 and a Maxon OD 808/Ibanez TS9. But 10 years ago the lead channel of the 6505 would have been everything I need. But my needs have changed a lot during the past decade...



Wait a god damn second. You can run KT88s in the Invective?


----------



## Deadpool_25

beavis2306 said:


> Are you still able to get the cleans you could but with more sparkle capability now or have you lost something?



Sorry, I missed this question. I love Fendery cleans and after I got past the honeymoon period I wished the Invective had that style clean. So these are better for me. However it doesn’t quite sound the same with the stock boost on and cranked up a bit. Still a cool sound but not the same. So if anything is “missing” that would be it.


----------



## Deadpool_25

Bearitone said:


> Wait a god damn second. You can run KT88s in the Invective?



From the manual: “Apart from 6L6GC, other types can be used including EL34, 6550, KT66, KT88 and 6CA7.”


----------



## JimF

Like many I'm trying to weigh up whether its worth going for the Invective or a 6505 & pedals. Only difference is I'm looking at MH models.
I've got a 100w head and 4x12 at the minute but considering downsizing for space. I could fit a vertical 2x12, head & all my guitars/hardcases into the space currently taken up by my oversize 4x12.
The Invective MHs were showing out of stock for a long time, and the websites that had due dates were showing 12+ weeks.
I reached out to Peavey and they said they're hoping to get the MHs available in the UK before Christmas.

The 6505 is also 2/3 the price...


----------



## Deadpool_25

JimF said:


> Like many I'm trying to weigh up whether its worth going for the Invective or a 6505 & pedals. Only difference is I'm looking at MH models.
> I've got a 100w head and 4x12 at the minute but considering downsizing for space. I could fit a vertical 2x12, head & all my guitars/hardcases into the space currently taken up by my oversize 4x12.
> The Invective MHs were showing out of stock for a long time, and the websites that had due dates were showing 12+ weeks.
> I reached out to Peavey and they said they're hoping to get the MHs available in the UK before Christmas.
> 
> The 6505 is also 2/3 the price...



How important is the clean tone?


----------



## JimF

That's it isn't it! That's the question. At the minute I've not been able to get a decent clean tone out of my amp. Historically I've never used cleans, I've always been a two or three pedal guy, one being a distortion pedal. But since I've been playing more at home and not gigging anymore, I've fancied a setup to nail the cleans. 

I can dial a great metal tone, but I've never had to dial cleans, so I'm clueless. 
Should I buy a chorus pedal? A decent reverb? Questions questions. I've never had a clean channel I've liked so I don't know how much I'd use it. I do find myself lusting over guitars with piezo bridges, those accoustic simulator pedals etc so there must be a part of me wants it.
Maybe I'll just play the Fade to Black intro and then get over it. But my current amp has a woolly 'almost-overdriven' clean channel leaving me wanting more.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

6505MH plus a DIY Precision Drive (aka Dwarven Hammer) would do it. The Invective MH OD and noise gate is not even adjustable. And you lose a crunch channel. The crunch channel on the 6505MH is nice for some blues and low gain stuff with its onboard reverb. The clean channel with the bright switch on is very useable too.


----------



## JimF

Oooh that's helpful thanks! Will have a look into the Dwarven Hammer too I'm just about to start my Triangulum boost!


----------



## Deadpool_25

List like three songs/parts where you like the clean tone. That might spark some ideas. I feel a little dirty saying this in this thread but have you looked into the EVH amps?


----------



## JimF

Not looked into them yet, think I discounted them as they have about five knobs in the front, so didn’t believe I cold get much better than I get now. I’m looking at lunchbox amps though.

Cleans I like, luckily all in the intros. Probably drowned with chorus reverb and delay but here goes:


----------



## Deadpool_25

Reverb and delay. Not a ton of chorus I don’t think. Could be wrong though. Although I think you could get away with the 6505mh cleans, the Invective cleans would probably be closer to the more crystal cleans of the ones you posted. 

I mentioned the 5153 50s because they’re narrow enough to fit on a vertical 2x12.


----------



## JimF

I'd discounted them because of the 50w but it could be worth looking into! Do they have the Fender cleans?


----------



## Deadpool_25

JimF said:


> I'd discounted them because of the 50w but it could be worth looking into! Do they have the Fender cleans?



Yes the cleans are very Fender.

And they’re super controllable at low volume or can get damned loud so don’t let the 50w bother you.


----------



## JimF

That might actually help because I'd considered getting rid of my monster amp & 4x12 because I don't gig anymore. But the "what if" aspect of future band activities left me hesitant. 
Thanks for the heads up, I'll have a look into them! If they have great cleans and take a pedals like a motherbitch then I might have found my amp!


----------



## PrestoDone

IMO stick with a rig you like at full tilt boogie, ...buy a two notes captor and keep the tone you love....


----------



## Blast Meat

PrestoDone said:


> IMO stick with a rig you like at full tilt boogie, ...buy a two notes captor and keep the tone you love....



Captor FTW. My recordings in my apartment using a SM57 have never been as good as the amp plugged straight into the Captor with some quality IR's. For the money it's a no brainer

BTW: Did Misha dieded? Has been damn quiet for some time. He was joining the discussions about his sig amp earlier but I haven't seen Peavey or him doing any promotion in the past few weeks and months?

I think they should, because the Invective doesn't get the attention it deserves.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Peavey died lol. There is barely any stock coming to retailers.


----------



## beavis2306

Australia getting even less


----------



## Blast Meat

Same here in Germany...

Mine really was the absolute last one in stock, can't believe it. I tried all huge stores in Germany and they were out of stock and I just found a single Invective on some price comparison website which is taking a look at all online shops in Europe. And the retailer said it's the very last one. So I got it...

When I check this price comparison website now there is still not a single Invective. The first shop to have it back in stock is Thomann supposingly mid January 2021. Well...


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Blast Meat said:


> Captor FTW. My recordings in my apartment using a SM57 have never been as good as the amp plugged straight into the Captor with some quality IR's. For the money it's a no brainer
> 
> BTW: Did Misha dieded? Has been damn quiet for some time. He was joining the discussions about his sig amp earlier but I haven't seen Peavey or him doing any promotion in the past few weeks and months?
> 
> I think they should, because the Invective doesn't get the attention it deserves.


Considering they can hardly even get them out the door, I'm not surprised that Peavey and Misha are basically acting like it doesn't exist.


----------



## Blast Meat

True again... But to be honest I also think that it wasn't a good choice to present it as Mishas signature head without highlighting the flexibility. The few people I know and who heared about the Invective thought it is just a one trick pony for Djent stuff...


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Blast Meat said:


> True again... But to be honest I also think that it wasn't a good choice to present it as Mishas signature head without highlighting the flexibility. The few people I know and who heared about the Invective thought it is just a one trick pony for Djent stuff...


Either way, if they can't get it into stores, then who cares, ultimately speaking.


----------



## Blast Meat

Made a video about the DI Out/MSDI Out of the Peavey Invective, for those of you who are interested:


----------



## Blast Meat

Guys, did anyone of you actually swap tubes to another type? I know someone trying to fit EL34's, but the BIAS is way too cold even though he maxed the bias adjust knob. 

Anyone had similar issues?


----------



## Blast Meat

John Fields just left a comment and mentioned that the MSDI DI-Output on the Peavey Invective seems to recognize which type of guitar speaker is connected and changes the sound of the in-built speaker simulation accordingly. This means that when you connect some V30's to the Peavey Invective and catch the DI-Output for recording, the mic sim should sound like a mic'd V30 speaker, and when using Greenbacks, it should sound like a mic'd Greenbacks etc.

Thought this might be worth sharing for you guys!


----------



## beavis2306

How could it do that?


----------



## Blast Meat

Guess it's related to the impedance curve of the speaker. When a speaker is connected to a guitar amplifier, a current is being sent back to your amplifier through the output jacks depending on the said individual impedance curve of the guitar speaker. This will change the sound inside your guitar amp - the same principle as of why resistive loads sound different to reactive loads. Reactive loads try to simulate a particular speaker impedance curve to make your amp sound and respond as if it was connected to a real guitar cabinet instead. This is why cheap resistive loads make your guitar amp sound lifeless and dull when cranked.

My guess is that they make use of this impedance curve and kind of feed it into the MSDI Output of the Invective...

Edit: There are also reactive loads that let you change the emulated impedance curve from "British" to "American" voicings. (This model I'm talking about allows you to select between a V30 and a Greenback impedance curve)


----------



## Blast Meat

I asked John Fields about how the MSDI works. His answer:

"There's a simple passive filter that does an outgoing SM57, "one inch from the outside of the cone simulation" on the signal that is at the speaker jack. The impedance curve is inherently transposed to that filter by means of Ohm's Law. It's too simple not to work. Obviously, the effects of volume in the ears can't be accounted for, nor cone breakup; however, the character of this "simulation" holds for all practical purposes."

So as far as I understand, it's a static frequency filter of a Shure SM57 one inch off the cone combined with the impedance curve of the connected speaker. He mentions that physical effects happening on a specific cab cannot be replicated, which makes sense. But the character of the speaker is caught and combined with the SM57-type filter. Really cool stuff...


----------



## Korblod

The Invective 120 is back in stock


----------



## FILTHnFEAR

I'll waiting on them to get more of the 4x12's in.


----------



## soul_lip_mike

I think I’m gonna sell mine. I haven’t touched since I took delivery of my Fractal FM3.


----------



## crankyrayhanky

I see in the manual that it ships with the suggested bias of 26
It can take other tubes- does anyone have the suggested settings or range of settings for each of the popular types like 34, 77? 
I know in my Randall head there was a formula that yielded different bias numbers for each tube type but I don't see that info for Invective


----------



## crankyrayhanky

Ok, just checked my stock issued bias and 2 were at 26, 2 tubes were around 24ish
I bumped it up a bit to 27-29 and I think it sounds waaaay better now!


----------



## FILTHnFEAR

crankyrayhanky said:


> Ok, just checked my stock issued bias and 2 were at 26, 2 tubes were around 24ish
> I bumped it up a bit to 27-29 and I think it sounds waaaay better now!



What kinda change did you notice when raising the bias?


----------



## crankyrayhanky

FILTHnFEAR said:


> What kinda change did you notice when raising the bias?


Not sure if it's in my head, but it feels like the attack is faster and livelier, lows are deeper
as is my love lol
Might be a feel thing, not sure if it would record this way or could all be in my head?

In general, what are the difference between a cold and hot biasing? Does it match up with my observations?
It seems like a big company might error on the side of cold bias knowing that they need the amp to withstand a being on a sales floor, lots of on/off, perhaps not selling for many months so they need it to have maximum endurance. I'm sure being too hot could burn tubes out quickly, but a few notches up from factory cold seems good to me.


----------



## crankyrayhanky

I want to try a quad set of el34s next but not sure where to put the bias. I think it needs to be in the low 30s (if it's anything like the Randall rm100)?


----------



## FILTHnFEAR

@crankyrayhanky faster attack and deeper lows sounds good to me.

I still have the stock 6l6's but when I get around to changing tubes I'm gonna try KT88's. One of the many things I like about the amp, the ability to run pretty much any tube type.


----------



## Michael Sawyer

Blast Meat said:


> John Fields just left a comment and mentioned that the MSDI DI-Output on the Peavey Invective seems to recognize which type of guitar speaker is connected and changes the sound of the in-built speaker simulation accordingly. This means that when you connect some V30's to the Peavey Invective and catch the DI-Output for recording, the mic sim should sound like a mic'd V30 speaker, and when using Greenbacks, it should sound like a mic'd Greenbacks etc.
> 
> Thought this might be worth sharing for you guys!




So, Tobias Just... I have gone on the web page that talks about the MSDI out on the Invective, and I have watched the YouTube video as well. Neither of them go through any type of procedure for how to use the MSDI output to achieve such a recording. I am trying to figure out how I can record with my Invective 120 silently using the MSDI output.

In order to do this, do I need to use an entirely separate piece of gear, like a Two Notes Torpedo Captor, or Captor X, or an OxBox or the like? If so, its seems to me that this MSDI is sort of redundant. Don't get me wrong, I love my Invective, but if it's not plug n play, then what's the big deal about this MSDI??? Now the Rev D20 and G20 and also the Generator III all come with Two Notes Torpedo Captor hardware built into the amps, and even have a switch integrated into the amp that allows you to save YOUR OWN 8 or 9 favorite cab IRs to the switch so that you can have them instantly without the need to carry a bunch of other gear with you. Granted, the Generator III is a $4000 amp, but my point is, if you can't just plug it into your A.I. and record, then what is the milestone here? You still have to have the amp cranked and pissing off the neighbors in order to get a good tone to record, so if you have to do all of that, why not just mic the damn thing and get the real deal sound? What's cheaper, a Shure SM-57, or a Captor? The SM-57.

I want to record silently though. So also, if I need a Torpedo Captor (X), then the cab sim the amp produces is irrelevant too because any load box is going to include software which will include IRs that will still blow the MSDI out of the water. So please correct me if I am wrong here. Do I need a load box to record silently, or no? And if the answer is no, would you please be kind enough to share with me the procedure you follow in order to silently record with the Invective 120. I would really appreciate it as I cannot seem to find anything about this on the web ANYWHERE.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions, help, or information that could help me out


----------



## Deadpool_25

Michael Sawyer said:


> So, Tobias Just... I have gone on the web page that talks about the MSDI out on the Invective, and I have watched the YouTube video as well. Neither of them go through any type of procedure for how to use the MSDI output to achieve such a recording. I am trying to figure out how I can record with my Invective 120 silently using the MSDI output.
> 
> In order to do this, do I need to use an entirely separate piece of gear, like a Two Notes Torpedo Captor, or Captor X, or an OxBox or the like? If so, its seems to me that this MSDI is sort of redundant. Don't get me wrong, I love my Invective, but if it's not plug n play, then what's the big deal about this MSDI??? Now the Rev D20 and G20 and also the Generator III all come with Two Notes Torpedo Captor hardware built into the amps, and even have a switch integrated into the amp that allows you to save YOUR OWN 8 or 9 favorite cab IRs to the switch so that you can have them instantly without the need to carry a bunch of other gear with you. Granted, the Generator III is a $4000 amp, but my point is, if you can't just plug it into your A.I. and record, then what is the milestone here? You still have to have the amp cranked and pissing off the neighbors in order to get a good tone to record, so if you have to do all of that, why not just mic the damn thing and get the real deal sound? What's cheaper, a Shure SM-57, or a Captor? The SM-57.
> 
> I want to record silently though. So also, if I need a Torpedo Captor (X), then the cab sim the amp produces is irrelevant too because any load box is going to include software which will include IRs that will still blow the MSDI out of the water. So please correct me if I am wrong here. Do I need a load box to record silently, or no? And if the answer is no, would you please be kind enough to share with me the procedure you follow in order to silently record with the Invective 120. I would really appreciate it as I cannot seem to find anything about this on the web ANYWHERE.
> 
> Thanks in advance for any suggestions, help, or information that could help me out



The MSDI is for going direct to an interface or FOH via XLR—I’m not sure it’s is made for silent recording. It has its own level and tone though so do you need any master volume at all? Is the MSDI Level completely independent? I don’t know as I haven’t ever used mine.


----------



## Michael Sawyer

Deadpool_25 said:


> The MSDI is for going direct to an interface or FOH via XLR—I’m not sure it’s is made for silent recording. It has its own level and tone though so do you need any master volume at all? Is the MSDI Level completely independent? I don’t know as I haven’t ever used mine.



I was in the same boat until about 2 weeks ago. I have just been playing through the amp, and doing so CRANKED TF UP at full power every time I get a chance. I've been getting into recording though. Nothing crazy, just learning everything I can in little steps, and I literally knew ZERO about any of it 6 months ago. In fact, it's this amp that inspired me to do so. So I did a bunch of researching and then went out and bought a Scarlett 2i2 interface, bought some plugin software, some 8" studio monitors (because even when I'm tracking, I like to be able to feel and hear that low end), some ATH-M50x headphone monitors, XLR and TRS cables, downloaded Reaper and got a license (this I would recommend for ANYONE out there trying to learn about the ins and outs of recording, because Cuckos, the creators of Reaper, saw fit to include nice, professional, and informative tutorial videos for EVERY DAMN THING you can possibly do in the Reaper DAW, except recording guitar silently using an MSDI output on a guitar amp, so each one is like its own little class on whatever the topic happens to be. And they cover EVERYTHING, from getting started and all the basics all the way through to the most detailed stuff that you don't get into until you are a PRO at the s%$#), and finally I went out and bought a new PC just to use for recording and guitar stuff, because one of the first lessons I learned was that it takes a good deal of CPU power/speed/memory to be able to run DAW using an audio interface to do guitar stuff, especially if you are doing multiple tracks per recording and relying on plugins to get your tones.

Anyway... So I f'n LOVE my Invective, and I decided I wanted to figure out how to record using it instead of the usual plugins. Enter this fiasco trying to figure out just WTF the MSDI is. Because initially, I knew it was on the back panel, but I had no clue what it was used for and figured I never would. When I started researching how to do this, I immediately was directed to a handful of links for YouTube videos, one website, and a couple forums. But none of them explain how to do it, and the forums are nothing but posts just like mine right here, with someone's question, but no answers.

After some digging and researching other stuff and leaving the word "Invective" and "MSDI" out of my searches, I began to get somewhere. Not with recording silently with an MSDI, but just my understanding of silent recording with tube amps in general. What I have come to understand is this...... Tube amps and related tech, just like digital stuff, has come a LONG way in the past 10 to 15 years. While people still mic cabs (which could arguably still be the very best way to record tone-wise, IF one knows what they are doing of course, and if you don't, it's garbage), direct outputs, load boxes, attenuators and such have become the new norm. And the beauty of it is that using IR technology, one can record tracks that sound like mic'd up cabs without actually mic'ing up a cab ever, AND, one may do so SILENTLY using a set of headphones with their 100 watt or more tube amp heads. You just need something like a Universal Audio OxBox or a Two Notes Torpedo Captor X or the like. This allows you to connect the output of your amp to a load (via the 1/4 inch speaker output on your amp) so that you don't fry your transformer, but its a load box instead of your 4, 8, or 16 ohm speaker cab. And from that load box you can connect to your audio interface and record in your DAW using headphones or studio monitors and using cab sims (or IRs) to get good tone.

Thing is, and this is my entire point here, unless I'm just oblivious to some huge fact.... These load boxes, as I mentioned before, use a 1/4 inch speaker cable connection from your amps 1/4 inch output. The MSDI already has its own cab sim, so even if you found a load box with an XLR INPUT, you would just be adding an IR anyway, so you would be adding an IR to an already cab simulated output. Stands to reason this would cause odd, or anything but run of the mill tone, or is at the very least just completely unnecessary. So, I pose this question. WHAT then, is the point? And if there is a point that I am missing, PLEASE will someone share it with me, because I would LOVE to be able to record silently with just my Invective as it sits, rather than spending $600 or more on a Two Notes Torpedo Captor X or the like. And if doing so is not possible, I'd just like the confirmation so that I can go on and pull the trigger on said Captor X. I know what I want to do is achieveable. I just need to know what I need, or need to do in order to get to work on making it happen.

Thanks for the response though. I do truly appreciate any and all help that is offered up here


----------



## aceshigh92

Michael Sawyer said:


> So, I pose this question. WHAT then, is the point? And if there is a point that I am missing, PLEASE will someone share it with me, because I would LOVE to be able to record silently with just my Invective as it sits, rather than spending $600 or more on a Two Notes Torpedo Captor X or the like.



The MSDI on the Invective is not intended to be used for silent recording. It is supposed to be used when playing live. You can have a cab on stage connected to your amp for stage volume, and you can also send the MSDI signal out to FOH so you don't have to fuck about with micing up a cab on stage.

If you want to record silently, you need a seperate loadbox such as the Captor X


----------



## Michael Sawyer

So...... Captor X it is then.....

Thanks for the replies.


----------



## Michael Sawyer

If anybody is interested, I've got a damn near brand new Peavey Invective 120 with footswitch and MAYBE the 212 Invective cab too for sale. I am going to find the classifieds on here and post it now. I am asking $1250, but that is sale cost, if I have to ship it, which will be most likely, the purchaser (or purchasee, wtf ever) would have to pay shipping cost along with the asking price. Believe me when I say it would be more than worth it. This amp is pretty much brand new and in immaculate condition, everything is 100% functional including the footswitch.


----------



## ChrisKey

bulb said:


> FYI, on the 5150/6505 my issue was that you got pretty much max volume at 3/4 and then from there you weren't getting more, definitely not anything useful, so we chose to create a taper so that not only could you more finely set the volume, but it would be easier to get bedroom volumes. Just crank the channel volume, and adjust the master to taste for live use. If you need more, you can always use the master boost on the back of the amp.


Hello Misha, one question if you don’t mind… did you design the Amp to sound tonally the same with the Master boost engaged (just louder), or does it affect tone like adding power amp saturation/distortion? I‘m asking because I believe to hear a difference, but it could also just be fletcher munson effect before I compensate the level…


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