# Fortin Nameless Plugin from NeuralDSP



## narad

While I'm annoyed with the "algorithmically perfect" tagline, sounds great:


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## Flappydoodle

I just watched that video and was going to post here, but you beat me to it

Does sound pretty good. But it also sounds like Ola. He's demo'd Amplitube, Mercuriall Spark, U530 and Triaxis, BIAS FX/AMP, and probably more - and he always sounds kinda the same.

I really wish there was a demo. The NeuralDSP simulation of the Darkglass B7K had a demo, and I ended up buying that. So they're obviously capable of doing demos with their distribution system (through iLok plugin). Wonder why there isn't a demo of this Fortin model.


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## vertibration

This is Mike Fortin. There is no question that someone who has utter disdain for digital, would never release trash. This plugin will decimate other amp sims.


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## KnightBrolaire

it sounds good, but ola manages to make shit like bias sound good. I'll wait for a few more demos before I even think about buying it.


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## vertibration

There isnt a demo, because it is preorder right now. Demo will probably come out after it releases. Just like the Darkglass plugin. I preordered because I know Mike Fortin wont disappoint, and I love the Darkglass emulation. Its spot on


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## technomancer

I find it funny that Meshuggah wouldn't allow them to put the name on the plugin


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## Kyle Jordan

Really looking forward to the demo. Good price too, preorder or normal.


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## vertibration

technomancer said:


> I find it funny that Meshuggah wouldn't allow them to put the name on the plugin



Probably because its not about Meshuggah. Its about Fortin, and promoting his brand


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## technomancer

vertibration said:


> Probably because its not about Meshuggah. Its about Fortin, and promoting his brand



Probably because they said no... it's the Meshuggah signature amp and that was the huge selling point of that limited production amp. From a marketing standpoint using the hype generated by that would have been a very good move.


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## vertibration

technomancer said:


> Probably because they said no... it's the Meshuggah signature amp and that was the huge selling point of that limited production amp. From a marketing standpoint using the hype generated by that would have been a very good move.



I dont know man, If I was Mike, I would not push a Meshuggah amp sim. I would push the Fortin brand. Thats just me


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## cwhitey2

I kind of realllly want this.


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## Kaura

Sounds good but with every demo that Ola makes I'm more sure that his strings are made of titanium alloy and his pickups are powered by a nuclear reaction or something. There's just something about him and his gear that makes even the worst stuff out there to sound decent. So might as well just wait for other reviews to see if it actually sounds as good as Ola makes it seem. Especially since they only give you a 10€ discount for pre-ordering. And the Toneforge Misha plugin just got released today so I should try to mess around with it first.


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## Vyn

Pushing it without the Meshuggah brand opens interest up to those who aren't fans of Meshuggah (finding someone on this board who doesn't like Meshuggah is unusual unlike in the mass market where Meshuggah isn't everyone's cup of tea).

Even though Ola sounds like Ola, this is fucking impressive. Definitely buying


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## prlgmnr

vertibration said:


> This is Mike Fortin.


Hi! Nice to meet you.


Anyway, I'm a bit sad that this doesn't cost significantly more than similar products while being limited to only a thousand downloads.


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## vertibration

prlgmnr said:


> Hi! Nice to meet you.
> 
> 
> Anyway, I'm a bit sad that this doesn't cost significantly more than similar products while being limited to only a thousand downloads.



LMAO !!!!!!! Nah man Im not Mike Fortin, I was making a point that Mike Fortin does not like amp sims


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## Bentaycanada

As an owner of some Fortin gear, I think the plugin sounds pretty dead on. Looking forward to picking it up!


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## narad

I'm Mike Fortin!


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## technomancer

prlgmnr said:


> Hi! Nice to meet you.
> 
> Anyway, I'm a bit sad that this doesn't cost significantly more than similar products while being limited to only a thousand downloads.



 nah I have exchanged emails with Mike in the past, if anybody from that camp it sounds more like engage... if it was Mike he wouldn't play around posing as somebody else.


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## Jacksonluvr636

Kewl. I just got a Captor and am trying to get away from amp sims so I doubt I will get this.

It does sound good, that is Ola playing. I wouldn't go as far as saying this is going to decimate every other amp sim out there. I do think for $99 it is a great buy either way since it comes with a grind sim and an IR loader with mic placements.

To me the mic placement is the selling point. Not sure how that would work with other IR's though. Seeing how you can get a TS808 for free and Le Cab and Ignite for FREE and other things like Thermionik for super cheap this thing better kick ass haha.

I am also sad that this is not $999 dollars and limited to 1k downloads. This can't be Mike Fortin.


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## StevenC

vertibration said:


> Probably because its not about Meshuggah. Its about Fortin, and promoting his brand


When I think of Fortin I think of Meshuggah, Ola Englund and Kirk Hammett.

Ola makes everything sound pretty much as good as each other, and I don't want Kirk's tone. I've played a good number of high gain amps, but I really haven't got a clue what a Fortin sounds like. I think I saw some once.


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## Xaios

narad said:


> I'm Mike Fortin!


I AM SPARTAC... uh, MIKE FORTIN!


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## Lorcan Ward

Not the most ideal release time for this but the more hi-quality guitar plugins the better! The neural DSP guys do great work and since Fortin had direct input I'm sure this is a winner. Hopefully there is a demo like their darkglass plugin.


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## sakeido

I am so incredibly happy I didn't go and buy the amp head now ... so, so happy


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## Werecow

"FREE iLok License Manager and iLok account needed" Is that basically DRM for their plugin? Does that mean if they go out of business or the license server disappears you can never reinstall it again at a future date?


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## Ola Englund

Just get the ducking plugin guys, it slays everything else I’ve tried so far in plugin form. The only downside I see with a plugin like this, is that every production with home recording guitar players will sound exactly the same from now on.


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## mnemonic

Ola Englund said:


> The only downside I see with a plugin like this, is that every production with home recording guitar players will sound exactly the same from now on.



Like the dark days, when everyone used a podxt and DFH.


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## Kyle Jordan

Watched Ola's demo a few more times now. Sounds really damn good. My brain keeps telling me to wait for a demo version as I've been burned in the past on plugins, but the impulse to buy is rising rapidly.


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## technomancer

Werecow said:


> "FREE iLok License Manager and iLok account needed" Is that basically DRM for their plugin? Does that mean if they go out of business or the license server disappears you can never reinstall it again at a future date?



It's DRM. iLok has been around forever, IIRC Protools uses them. Given Mike's concerns about not getting paid for his work not an unreasonable option.


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## Kaura

Anyone pre-ordered this yet? I tried to but it's asking for a "VAT registration number" and I have no idea what that means.


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## KnightBrolaire

just saw posts on IG from john browne playing around with this plugin, and apparently arnold from unbiased gear reviews got a copy as well. I'm guessing we're going to be inundated with demos of the plugin from all the bigger gear demoers relatively soon.


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## Flappydoodle

Ola Englund said:


> Just get the ducking plugin guys, it slays everything else I’ve tried so far in plugin form. The only downside I see with a plugin like this, is that every production with home recording guitar players will sound exactly the same from now on.



No offence man, but you've also raved about:

Amplitube 4 - three separate videos on that one
BIAS AMP/FX/2 - had your own signature page on their tone cloud
Mercuriall ReAxis - had your own signature stock presets in the plugin 
UAD ENGL Savage

All of them have sounded good in the demos you put out.

So is this REALLY the best one? Or just the latest one to come along and pay you to promote it?


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## fob

Ola Englund said:


> Just get the ducking plugin guys, it slays everything else I’ve tried so far in plugin form. The only downside I see with a plugin like this, is that every production with home recording guitar players will sound exactly the same from now on.


I mean I think you’ve said this in your videos, how you have received criticism for your demos of stuff all sounds the same. However that’s because YOU are playing it, with your hands and your pick and your guitar, etc. I don’t see that being an issue. 

I did pre order it for anyone wondering.

I just let that part with the code blank and it worked fine. I got the receipt for the payment but no ETA on when it’s coming or anything else so far.


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## narad

Flappydoodle said:


> No offence man, but you've also raved about:
> 
> Amplitube 4 - three separate videos on that one
> BIAS AMP/FX/2 - had your own signature page on their tone cloud
> Mercuriall ReAxis - had your own signature stock presets in the plugin
> UAD ENGL Savage
> 
> All of them have sounded good in the demos you put out.
> 
> So is this REALLY the best one? Or just the latest one to come along and pay you to promote it?



Every phone I get is the fastest phone I've ever used.


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## Kaura

fob said:


> I just let that part with the code blank and it worked fine. I got the receipt for the payment but no ETA on when it’s coming or anything else so far.



Looks like the gray checkout box just fooled me. Also, looks like the tax wasn't included in the price so the total would come to 111€ so no thanks. I'll just wait until I get back to work and then rethink about it.


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## fob

Kaura said:


> Looks like the gray checkout box just fooled me. Also, looks like the tax wasn't included in the price so the total would come to 111€ so no thanks. I'll just wait until I get back to work and then rethink about it.


My total price with the conversion rate to USD via PayPal was $107 after taxes, if that helps.


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## Kaura

fob said:


> My total price with the conversion rate to USD via PayPal was $107 after taxes, if that helps.



That would be 92 in euros so now I'm even less eager to get it. Hopefully there will be a sale in the future.


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## fob

Kaura said:


> That would be 92 in euros so now I'm even less eager to get it. Hopefully there will be a sale in the future.


It was cheaper than I was expecting lol


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## Metropolis

Flappydoodle said:


> No offence man, but you've also raved about:
> 
> Amplitube 4 - three separate videos on that one
> BIAS AMP/FX/2 - had your own signature page on their tone cloud
> Mercuriall ReAxis - had your own signature stock presets in the plugin
> UAD ENGL Savage
> 
> All of them have sounded good in the demos you put out.
> 
> So is this REALLY the best one? Or just the latest one to come along and pay you to promote it?



Guess Ola doesn't get paid from everything what he's demoing. I remember him being really excited about Mercuriall ReAxis, but when demoing Bias Amp 2 he was just like "meh, that was cool". So, from that one could make a conclusion to direction or another which is best... (it's not Bias )


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## KnightBrolaire

KnightBrolaire said:


> just saw posts on IG from john browne playing around with this plugin, and apparently arnold from unbiased gear reviews got a copy as well. I'm guessing we're going to be inundated with demos of the plugin from all the bigger gear demoers relatively soon.


well well look what just popped up on youtube. it sounds good, but not 100$ good imo.


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## Lorcan Ward

Skimmed the video cause its time for pints but I liked the sound samples I heard. 

Its a good time to be a guitar player with all these options. I remember people raving about Metal Amp Room years ago being the pinnacle of amp sims and that costed something like $200.


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## Flappydoodle

narad said:


> Every phone I get is the fastest phone I've ever used.



Yes I know. And Tim Cook proudly says "it's the best iPhone we've ever made".

I'm not accusing him of lying. But we all know that Positive Grid paid reviewers. And as I said, he even put his name on that product. Mercuriall likely does too. The video series about Amplitube was also sponsored.

Would just like a little bit of honest opinion.



Metropolis said:


> Guess Ola doesn't get paid from everything what he's demoing. I remember him being really excited about Mercuriall ReAxis, but when demoing Bias Amp 2 he was just like "meh, that was cool". So, from that one could make a conclusion to direction or another which is best... (it's not Bias )



Sure. But he did have his own page in the tone cloud for BIAS, so he wasn't too ashamed to put his name on it.


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## narad

Flappydoodle said:


> Yes I know. And Tim Cook proudly says "it's the best iPhone we've ever made".
> 
> I'm not accusing him of lying. But we all know that Positive Grid paid reviewers. And as I said, he even put his name on that product. Mercuriall likely does too. The video series about Amplitube was also sponsored.



Dude, it's their job. They're _all_ getting paid. For basically _all_ the reviews. Just listen to the demos and take everyone's opinions with a grain of salt. 

But it's worth pointing out that obviously Fortin tone is Ola tone, that his sig amp is based on a Fortin design, and that it's very easy to imagine that the latest and greatest Fortin amp sim is going to be something Ola can be a bit more genuinely excited by.


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## Flappydoodle

narad said:


> Dude, it's their job. They're _all_ getting paid. For basically _all_ the reviews. Just listen to the demos and take everyone's opinions with a grain of salt.
> 
> But it's worth pointing out that obviously Fortin tone is Ola tone, that his sig amp is based on a Fortin design, and that it's very easy to imagine that the latest and greatest Fortin amp sim is going to be something Ola can be a bit more genuinely excited by.



Yes I know. But when he's coming here, outside of his YouTube channel, presumably NOT being paid to advertise on forums, should I interpret that as more genuine?


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## Flappydoodle

KnightBrolaire said:


> well well look what just popped up on youtube. it sounds good, but not 100$ good imo.




Sounds fine, but Arnold's tone always kinda sucks IMO. I think it's something to do with his interface, because his guitar always has this "choked off" kinda sound, as if the volume on the guitar is only half way up, or the input gain on his interface is too low. It never really gets a full, saturated sound. Then he compensates by having the gain on 11.


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## narad

Flappydoodle said:


> Yes I know. But when he's coming here, outside of his YouTube channel, presumably NOT being paid to advertise on forums, should I interpret that as more genuine?



As you say, if he's presumably NOT being paid to advertise on forums, is there any reason then to suggest that he's not being genuine or to ask for "just like a little bit of honest opinion"? He already gave an opinion so would you expect a new Ola post: "Ah, right, really put me on the spot -- sorry guys, it didn't actually slay"? A priori the technology behind this plug-in is better than Bias/Amplitude/UAD, you should expect it to be better than Bias/Amplitude/UAD.

I started the thread and I said it sounded good to me. What are my motivations? Am I getting paid? OoooOOooo


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## dark_vader

Flappydoodle said:


> Yes I know. But when he's coming here, outside of his YouTube channel, presumably NOT being paid to advertise on forums, should I interpret that as more genuine?



You know how I could tell he was genuinely into it / excited by it?

0 burps.


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## KnightBrolaire

Flappydoodle said:


> Sounds fine, but Arnold's tone always kinda sucks IMO. I think it's something to do with his interface, because his guitar always has this "choked off" kinda sound, as if the volume on the guitar is only half way up, or the input gain on his interface is too low. It never really gets a full, saturated sound. Then he compensates by having the gain on 11.


yeah, his tone usually sucks, but he did have some good results with this plugin. He always seems to have wayy too much treble in his tone, and it never sounds as full as say fluff or ola's demos. It'll be kind of interesting to see what sounds the other big demoers get with this plugin. From what I've heard so far this seems to be a lot better than the jst bulb toneforge.


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## Ola Englund

Flappydoodle said:


> No offence man, but you've also raved about:
> 
> Amplitube 4 - three separate videos on that one
> BIAS AMP/FX/2 - had your own signature page on their tone cloud
> Mercuriall ReAxis - had your own signature stock presets in the plugin
> UAD ENGL Savage
> 
> All of them have sounded good in the demos you put out.
> 
> So is this REALLY the best one? Or just the latest one to come along and pay you to promote it?



It's ok to like all products, it doesn't have to be black and white all the time. It's like when people ask me about kemper vs axe fx. Both are good in their different , what more can I say. And no I'm not getting paid to say anything, that's something I make clear to all brands I review, whatever happens in my videos STAYS in my videos. You will see and notice on my reaction if I like a product or not. That's one of the terms I have to make videos overall. I have had a bunch of brands backing out from having me making videos because of this.
Stock plugins, brands ask me to make them, I make them because I think it's fun. I'm honoured to be trusted by brands to have presets from their launch. Would you say no?

Like I said in the video, if the modern metal sound is what you go for, THIS plugin is the shit right now. In three months there might be a new Mercuriall Plugin that will blow everything out of the water, it's not like I'm going back to revise my first videos just because something better comes out.
Thanks for the understanding.


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## Bentaycanada

Ola Englund said:


> It's ok to like all products, it doesn't have to be black and white all the time. It's like when people ask me about kemper vs axe fx. Both are good in their different , what more can I say. And no I'm not getting paid to say anything, that's something I make clear to all brands I review, whatever happens in my videos STAYS in my videos. You will see and notice on my reaction if I like a product or not. That's one of the terms I have to make videos overall. I have had a bunch of brands backing out from having me making videos because of this.
> Stock plugins, brands ask me to make them, I make them because I think it's fun. I'm honoured to be trusted by brands to have presets from their launch. Would you say no?
> 
> Like I said in the video, if the modern metal sound is what you go for, THIS plugin is the shit right now. In three months there might be a new Mercuriall Plugin that will blow everything out of the water, it's not like I'm going back to revise my first videos just because something better comes out.
> Thanks for the understanding.



Things change, new programs develop new improved tones for guitar on an almost never ending cycle. Especially now.

I remember Line 6 POD Pro being the be all end all, then the POD XT, HD, 11R, Axe Fx, Kemper, Bias.....etc.....etc....

In the last 10 years it’s gone from Line 6 and Boss to over a dozen digital brands, and it’s almost too hard to keep up! BUT my fuck is it ever an exciting time to be playing these great programs!

Thermionik is great, Mercuriall is great, Fortin looks great, and Toneforge looks great too. They can all exist and all deserve their praise equally!


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## Ola Englund

I


Flappydoodle said:


> No offence man, but you've also raved about:
> 
> Amplitube 4 - three separate videos on that one
> BIAS AMP/FX/2 - had your own signature page on their tone cloud
> Mercuriall ReAxis - had your own signature stock presets in the plugin
> UAD ENGL Savage
> 
> All of them have sounded good in the demos you put out.
> 
> So is this REALLY the best one? Or just the latest one to come along and pay you to promote it?



As a side note, I was a little surprised you said I had made 3 separate Amplitube videos. I had to search my channel for amplitube and only found one video and one comparison videos. So you’re lying! You’re creating fake news! 

Not that it matters I’m used to people talking untruths about me


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## I play music

Bentaycanada said:


> In the last 10 years it’s gone from Line 6 and Boss to over a dozen digital brands, and it’s almost too hard to keep up!


I think it's more like hundreds than over a dozen.


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## I play music

Ola Englund said:


> I
> 
> 
> As a side note, I was a little surprised you said I had made 3 separate Amplitube videos. I had to search my channel for amplitube and only found one video and one comparison videos. So you’re lying! You’re creating fake news!
> 
> Not that it matters I’m used to people talking untruths about me


Hi Ola! OT since we have you here: When you demo products like preamps that have a cab sim please show that cab sim a bit more than just 10 seconds. For example Mooer Black Truck.


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## Ola Englund

I play music said:


> Hi Ola! OT since we have you here: When you demo products like preamps that have a cab sim please show that cab sim a bit more than just 10 seconds. For example Mooer Black Truck.


Ok!


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## Ericjutsu

Ola Englund said:


> Ok!


I like you Ola. Your videos are neat. I remember watching your videos with the amp tone shootouts and your tone was/is awesome. When I'm not broke anymore I'll have to get the Fortin amp sim.


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## KnightBrolaire

lasse lammert posted about the plugin, and josh from northlane posted a story on his IG using the plugin. the hype train chugs onwards


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## Flappydoodle

narad said:


> As you say, if he's presumably NOT being paid to advertise on forums, is there any reason then to suggest that he's not being genuine or to ask for "just like a little bit of honest opinion"? He already gave an opinion so would you expect a new Ola post: "Ah, right, really put me on the spot -- sorry guys, it didn't actually slay"? A priori the technology behind this plug-in is better than Bias/Amplitude/UAD, you should expect it to be better than Bias/Amplitude/UAD.
> 
> I started the thread and I said it sounded good to me. What are my motivations? Am I getting paid? OoooOOooo



Not sure why you're being so weird, sarcastic and aggressive. Let me be blunt: YouTubers are paid advertisers and all of us who aren't gullible idiots already know that. And yes, we take it with a grain of salt and try to read into whether they *really* liked something, or whether they're just following the script they were paid to read. I'm not hating on the guy for trying to make a living, even if it's by shilling a new product every week.

But when that person comes onto a totally separate forum and says something is good, then presumably it's a more genuine opinion. (Unless he's also being paid by Fortin to promote products here, which I imagine the SSO admins would have a problem with.)

So yeah, maybe some genuine opinion would be nice. Crazy how that's apparently too much to ask.



Ola Englund said:


> As a side note, I was a little surprised you said I had made 3 separate Amplitube videos. I had to search my channel for amplitube and only found one video and one comparison videos. So you’re lying! You’re creating fake news!
> 
> Not that it matters I’m used to people talking untruths about me



*Well, prepare to be surprised for a second time!
*
Number one. The teaser video: 

Number two. The reveal ad: 

(gotta build that hype, right!)

Number three. The full product ad: 

Not that the number of videos was the important part of my post anyway.


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## Shask

Jeeesshhh guys.... Ola is going to quit posting here if every post he makes causes a bitchfest. I am just happy to see Ola posting here again, because it has been awhile.


Personally, I think this sounds OK, but was way more impressed with the Mooer Black Truck demo. There is just something about VST plugins I can't get into.


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## Ola Englund

Oh yeha


Flappydoodle said:


> Not sure why you're being so weird, sarcastic and aggressive. Let me be blunt: YouTubers are paid advertisers and all of us who aren't gullible idiots already know that. And yes, we take it with a grain of salt and try to read into whether they *really* liked something, or whether they're just following the script they were paid to read. I'm not hating on the guy for trying to make a living, even if it's by shilling a new product every week.
> 
> But when that person comes onto a totally separate forum and says something is good, then presumably it's a more genuine opinion. (Unless he's also being paid by Fortin to promote products here, which I imagine the SSO admins would have a problem with.)
> 
> So yeah, maybe some genuine opinion would be nice. Crazy how that's apparently too much to ask.
> 
> 
> 
> *Well, prepare to be surprised for a second time!
> *
> Number one. The teaser video:
> 
> Number two. The reveal ad:
> 
> (gotta build that hype, right!)
> 
> Number three. The full product ad:
> 
> Not that the number of videos was the important part of my post anyway.



Oh yeah that was my idea, nothing I did because someone told me to. I thought it would be fun because I thought it sounded awesome and pretty much like the real amp. But I guess it doesn’t really matter in the end. I try to make content that people can enjoy and people take it as an advertisement. It’s like the recent metalzone video. I made it because it was fun, much like 90% of my videos, not paid for by anyone.

I’m lucky enough that my channel is a small part of my total income so I don’t have to rely on sponsored content. I thought people realized that but maybe it doesn’t come across that way.


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## fob

Ola Englund said:


> Oh yeha
> 
> Oh yeah that was my idea, nothing I did because someone told me to. I thought it would be fun because I thought it sounded awesome and pretty much like the real amp. But I guess it doesn’t really matter in the end. I try to make content that people can enjoy and people take it as an advertisement. It’s like the recent metalzone video. I made it because it was fun, much like 90% of my videos, not paid for by anyone.
> 
> I’m lucky enough that my channel is a small part of my total income so I don’t have to rely on sponsored content. I thought people realized that but maybe it doesn’t come across that way.


Ola please don’t let some internet opinions voice the majority of us who do appreciate and love your work. I get a sense you’re genuine, and yes we’re all adults and know some things are paid but when I watched your Fortin video I got the impression you GENUINELY liked it a lot, that combined with my ears of it genuinely sounding better and different than some other stuff. The critical people are always the most vocal. 

I’m not attacking who criticized either, I’m simply saying I really don’t see the basis for it and the need to keep digging it in except for the attention at this point. It’s just a demo. At the end of the day you make your own decision, no need to shit on someone who made a demo, just don’t watch it or buy the product and move on if that’s not your type of review.


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## JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo

Flappydoodle said:


> Sounds fine, but Arnold's tone always kinda sucks IMO. I think it's something to do with his interface, because his guitar always has this "choked off" kinda sound, as if the volume on the guitar is only half way up, or the input gain on his interface is too low. It never really gets a full, saturated sound. Then he compensates by having the gain on 11.



Frankly, the intro he uses sounds awful. I'm not going to claim to be a great sound engineer, but if you're going to use a tag on the front of each video of your gear review channel, it better sound a hell of a lot better than his does. He's a great reviewer, though, certainly knows his stuff. Fluff suffers from the same thing, although I can't say his production and riffing particularly sells me on anything.


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## Beheroth

Ola



__ Beheroth
__ Aug 26, 2018


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## Ola Englund

fob said:


> Ola please don’t let some internet opinions voice the majority of us who do appreciate and love your work. I get a sense you’re genuine, and yes we’re all adults and know some things are paid but when I watched your Fortin video I got the impression you GENUINELY liked it a lot, that combined with my ears of it genuinely sounding better and different than some other stuff. The critical people are always the most vocal.
> 
> I’m not attacking who criticized either, I’m simply saying I really don’t see the basis for it and the need to keep digging it in except for the attention at this point. It’s just a demo. At the end of the day you make your own decision, no need to shit on someone who made a demo, just don’t watch it or buy the product and move on if that’s not your type of review.



Don’t worry about me, Like I said earlier being a Youtuber you have to get thick skin otherwise you’re going to have a hard time. It’s just the natural evolution. You grow bigger and with more people enjoying what you do, there will also be more people that won’t like what you’re doing. You can’t escape it. People say the most hateful evil stuff, I would have probably cared if I was 12 years old but thankfully I’m old, I have kids and have other problems to deal with than worrying about a dislike on a video


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## ZombieLloyd

Ola Englund said:


> Don’t worry about me, Like I said earlier being a Youtuber you have to get thick skin otherwise you’re going to have a hard time. It’s just the natural evolution. You grow bigger and with more people enjoying what you do, there will also be more people that won’t like what you’re doing. You can’t escape it. People say the most hateful evil stuff, I would have probably cared if I was 12 years old but thankfully I’m old, I have kids and have other problems to deal with than worrying about a dislike on a video



Hey, Ola. Would you consider doing a review of the Satan 50 in the style of your recent amp review videos since it's now a production model? There needs to be more videos on Youtube of the amp in general, but I think the guy the amp was created for would do it best haha


----------



## mnemonic

Ola Englund said:


> It’s like the recent metalzone video. I made it because it was fun, much like 90% of my videos, not paid for by anyone.



OLA IS A BOSS SHILL, CONFIRMED


Also the Metal Zone I think was based on the old Boss GL-100 preamp, so it makes sense it would work well as a preamp. 

I’ve done a few mods on one I bought on eBay to tame it a bit so I can use it as a boost.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

mnemonic said:


> OLA IS A BOSS SHILL, CONFIRMED
> 
> 
> Also the Metal Zone I think was based on the old Boss GL-100 preamp, so it makes sense it would work well as a preamp.
> 
> I’ve done a few mods on one I bought on eBay to tame it a bit so I can use it as a boost.



I think that actually explains a lot, then. I guess it sounds like shit because it overloads the front end?


----------



## KnightBrolaire

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I think that actually explains a lot, then. I guess it sounds like shit because it overloads the front end?


no, the mt2 only sounds like shit because of that mid frequency sweep knob. past a certain point it's a can of bees. when it's dialed in for your amp it kicks ass.


----------



## Beheroth

here's some interesting lecture about the metal zone :
https://electricdruid.net/boss-mt-2-metal-zone-pedal-analysis/


----------



## ZombieLloyd

KnightBrolaire said:


> no, the mt2 only sounds like shit because of that mid frequency sweep knob. past a certain point it's a can of bees. when it's dialed in for your amp it kicks ass.


This has been my experience too. I tried it yesterday with my Randall V2 and it sounds great with the mid knob all the way up at 200Hz, anything other than that is very bad haha.


----------



## Shask

Beheroth said:


> here's some interesting lecture about the metal zone :
> https://electricdruid.net/boss-mt-2-metal-zone-pedal-analysis/


Damnit.... I have an old MT-2 I modded years ago I have to get out and play with now.....


----------



## dark_vader

Ola Englund said:


> Oh yeha
> 
> I try to make content that people can enjoy and people take it as an advertisement. It’s like the recent metalzone video. I made it because it was fun, much like 90% of my videos, not paid for by anyone.



I really enjoy your videos personally. I understand you get paid for some of your videos. I don't care, good for you. Who wouldn't do the same in your shoes? Some people will complain no matter what you do. You seem like a genuinely good guy and your videos are entertaining. I hope you keep making them.

Love,
dark_vader


----------



## narad

Flappydoodle said:


> Not sure why you're being so weird, sarcastic and aggressive. Let me be blunt: YouTubers are paid advertisers and all of us who aren't gullible idiots already know that. And yes, we take it with a grain of salt and try to read into whether they *really* liked something, or whether they're just following the script they were paid to read. I'm not hating on the guy for trying to make a living, even if it's by shilling a new product every week.
> 
> But when that person comes onto a totally separate forum and says something is good, then presumably it's a more genuine opinion. (Unless he's also being paid by Fortin to promote products here, which I imagine the SSO admins would have a problem with.)
> 
> So yeah, maybe some genuine opinion would be nice. Crazy how that's apparently too much to ask.



I'm just really confused by what you want. If someone gave you their opinion, and then you keep pressing them for a _genuine_ opinion, isn't that calling them a liar?


----------



## narad

Ola Englund said:


> I would have probably cared if I was 12 years old but thankfully I’m old, I have kids and have other problems to deal with than worrying about a dislike on a video









;-)

Yea, just want to say that, while I guess the internet makes people more vocal about the things they dislike than the things they like, I really enjoyed he recent set of videos -- especially the ones that explore old BOSS pedal chains and classic metal tones. It's been really entertaining and educational (and...yes, has also made me want to buy a bunch of old BOSS pedals).


----------



## vertibration

The one thing I don't seem to understand is that Ola clearly explains his signal chain, and it goes direct into the Fortin plugin, yet some still complain that anything he does sounds the same or good because he has some sort of secret sauce. Listen, take some lessons on how to record properly in a DAW, then come back and post your opinions. First off his Solar guitars sound great, he is recording into a UAD interface, also sounds great. Into Logic, which.....Also sounds great for a DAW, and the Fortin plugin sounds amazing. I have been scouring Instagram stories, and lots of prominent artists have been posting demos of how it sounds, and they all have been raving. At some point you gotta stop thinking stupid and realize that if that many people are taking it this seriously, and probably seriously enough to record albums, then this plugin is probably going to floor you


----------



## narad

vertibration said:


> The one thing I don't seem to understand is that Ola clearly explains his signal chain, and it goes direct into the Fortin plugin, yet some still complain that anything he does sounds the same or good because he has some sort of secret sauce. Listen, take some lessons on how to record properly in a DAW, then come back and post your opinions. First off his Solar guitars sound great, he is recording into a UAD interface, also sounds great. Into Logic, which.....Also sounds great for a DAW, and the Fortin plugin sounds amazing. I have been scouring Instagram stories, and lots of prominent artists have been posting demos of how it sounds, and they all have been raving. At some point you gotta stop thinking stupid and realize that if that many people are taking it this seriously, and probably seriously enough to record albums, then this plugin is probably going to floor you



Rapid fire QA session:

1. You're conflating two things: Ola being good at making things sound good/similar, and whether this plugin sounding good. 
2. When you're seeing prominent artists all posting demos of how it sounds on day one, that's marketing. 
3. Lots of other plugins have been "serious" enough for recordings. 
4. Just enjoy the plugin, and let's not try to start a civil war over something people here aren't even hands-on with or arguing about (unless you can point to a single instance of anyone here saying it doesn't sound good -- but don't waste your time, worse anyone has said is that it sounds "OK". Fortin's sound is not everyone's favorite sound btw).


----------



## Lorcan Ward

@Ola Englund is there a reason you don't mute your headstock, everytime you palm mute in that video there is a "shring" sound underneath. I saw a good few comments complaining the plug-in was clanky without realising its just the overtones from the headstock. 



KnightBrolaire said:


> lasse lammert posted about the plugin, and josh from northlane posted a story on his IG using the plugin. the hype train chugs onwards



They've done a great job marketing it compared to another similar released plug-in that just got its hype and excitement window squashed.


----------



## narad

Lorcan Ward said:


> They've done a great job marketing it compared to another similar released plug-in that just got its hype and excitement window squashed.



That this is a thing is just...depressing to me.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

I don't recall it ever happening before. Fractal announcing the III the day after NAMM to get maximum reach is the closest I can think of.


----------



## Steinmetzify

Lorcan Ward said:


> @Ola Englund is there a reason you don't mute your headstock, everytime you palm mute in that video there is a "shring" sound underneath. I saw a good few comments complaining the plug-in was clanky without realising its just the overtones from the headstock.
> 
> 
> 
> They've done a great job marketing it compared to another similar released plug-in that just got its hype and excitement window squashed.



Which plugin just got murdered?


----------



## KnightBrolaire

steinmetzify said:


> Which plugin just got murdered?


the bulb toneforge plugin


----------



## Steinmetzify

Ah, I see


----------



## mikah912

KnightBrolaire said:


> the bulb toneforge plugin



I doubt it. They wisely got a ton of people to bite on preorders by making presets and a discount exclusive to that. People are rushing to YT to demo clips for it. They probably made most of what they were going to make before the announcement of the Fortin plugin. I wouldn't be surprised if they sell the Misha presets for $10-$20 a bit down the line with maybe some additional content. It was a smart strategy.


----------



## bulb

KnightBrolaire said:


> the bulb toneforge plugin



Damn such confidence! May I ask what data you are basing this off of exactly?


----------



## Xaios

bulb said:


> Damn such confidence! May I ask what data you are basing this off of exactly?


----------



## KnightBrolaire

bulb said:


> Damn such confidence! May I ask what data you are basing this off of exactly?


general social media buzz, particularly on instagram and guitar groups on fb. every ig guitarist with a decent following is hyping fortin's plugin right now, and i've barely seen any posts about your plugin. unless you and fortin post sales numbers i can't really give a quantitative comparison.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

KnightBrolaire said:


> general social media buzz, particularly on instagram and guitar groups on fb. every ig guitarist with a decent following is hyping fortin's plugin right now, and i've barely seen any posts about your plugin. unless you and fortin post sales numbers i can't really give a quantitative comparison.



Yeah, I have to second this actually. I've seen way more content about the Fortin plugin in just a few days than I have since the first day the Toneforge started being advertised. I saw more about the limited edition Precision Drive than I have the Toneforge plugin even.

Just an observation. I think both plugins are interesting and I've debated purchasing both even.


----------



## mnemonic

Maybe one spent more on marketing than the other.


----------



## fob

I mean if I’m not mistaken this is Fortin’s debut amp sim? That would give reason to have an extra bump in social media buzz. It’s the same dudes who make amps for Meshuggah. Of course it’s gonna be popular. This is Mishas first amp sim that I’m aware of, but JST has like 4 now, and Misha already had Horizon Devices which I think stole that “first time” thunder that Fortin has right now.


----------



## I play music

LeviathanKiller said:


> Yeah, I have to second this actually. I've seen way more content about the Fortin plugin in just a few days than I have since the first day the Toneforge started being advertised. I saw more about the limited edition Precision Drive than I have the Toneforge plugin even.


Maybe the amount of work that went into each plugin was also very different so that to be profitable sales do not have to be equal


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

mnemonic said:


> Maybe one spent more on marketing than the other.



Mike has Zack Khoury working for him. That dude knows how to get around.


----------



## technomancer

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Mike has Zack Khoury working for him. That dude knows how to get around.



That's one term for it


----------



## Metropolis

fob said:


> I mean if I’m not mistaken this is Fortin’s debut amp sim? That would give reason to have an extra bump in social media buzz. It’s the same dudes who make amps for Meshuggah. Of course it’s gonna be popular. This is Mishas first amp sim that I’m aware of, but JST has like 4 now, and Misha already had Horizon Devices which I think stole that “first time” thunder that Fortin has right now.



And it's developed by Neural DSP which is kind of software company of Darkglass Audio, and cab modeling is developed by ML Soundlab (Mikko Lövgren) who works for Fractal Audio. Kind of know this from the inside, because both are finnish companies


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

technomancer said:


> That's one term for it


Was trying to be classy about it.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Someday, there will be a pedal like a VST amp sim loader just like we have IR pedals right now. That would be awesome.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

MASS DEFECT said:


> Someday, there will be a pedal like a VST amp sim loader just like we have IR pedals right now. That would be awesome.



I think the only outboard VST loader I know of is the Musebox. 

I wonder if a Raspberry Pi has the power to run VSTs? Especially if someone can make a custom OS specifically for VST loading.


----------



## Bentaycanada

MASS DEFECT said:


> Someday, there will be a pedal like a VST amp sim loader just like we have IR pedals right now. That would be awesome.



I brought this up last year, a pedal that could load amp vsts / IR’s from your computer would be a great idea.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

mnemonic said:


> Maybe one spent more on marketing than the other.


very likely. I was just reporting what I've seen from social media.


----------



## vertibration

[/QUOTE]

LMAO!!! For real though, Misha's plugin is good. I got it, and its got a lot of good perks. I mean, look...Misha is not an amp designer, neither is Joey Sturgis. Fortin is, and probably one of the best ones out there at that. So yea, people are going to flip out when he authorizes an emulation. The thing with the demos from Ola, and a few on Insta that Ive heard, is they pretty much all sound sick as hell, and that helps too. You can't just let that overshadow the fact that the Misha plugin isn't as good, because it is. Its just different. Frankly, I love the PD, and Reverb on it, and the clean channel sounds amazing as well, and thats sometimes a real pain to nail for plugins. I say get both, and use both because I don't think the Fortin has a good clean channel from the videos that I have heard obviously. Lastly, one thing I will say is that the Fortin has a chug that I have never, ever heard a plugin nail like that one does


----------



## lurgar

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I wonder if a Raspberry Pi has the power to run VSTs? Especially if someone can make a custom OS specifically for VST loading.



They run ARM processors which means that stuff designed for PCs and Macs wouldn't be compatible. They're also not a very beefy platform so I doubt they'd have the processing power or RAM to run the VSTs.

Some day though I would love to be able to load up a VST, get my presets and IRs worked out, then load it into a pedal and take it to a show.


----------



## Shoeless_jose

lurgar said:


> They run ARM processors which means that stuff designed for PCs and Macs wouldn't be compatible. They're also not a very beefy platform so I doubt they'd have the processing power or RAM to run the VSTs.
> 
> Some day though I would love to be able to load up a VST, get my presets and IRs worked out, then load it into a pedal and take it to a show.



Im ignorant. How is vst presets and IRs in a pedal not essentially just a helix/ax8 type unit?


----------



## vertibration

lurgar said:


> They run ARM processors which means that stuff designed for PCs and Macs wouldn't be compatible. They're also not a very beefy platform so I doubt they'd have the processing power or RAM to run the VSTs.
> 
> Some day though I would love to be able to load up a VST, get my presets and IRs worked out, then load it into a pedal and take it to a show.



For the cost of that new Microsoft Surface, the one for like $399, you could take that, and whatever interface you have and you are pretty much set. Just buy a super rugged case to protect it and your'e good to go. I tested a few amp sims into a power section through a cab and it sounds good enough. Bet that Fortin would sound pretty insane actually


----------



## bulb

KnightBrolaire said:


> the bulb toneforge plugin



Damn such confidence! May I ask what data your are basing this off of exactly?


mnemonic said:


> Maybe one spent more on marketing than the other.



Haha, that’s very astute of you!


----------



## bulb

KnightBrolaire said:


> the bulb toneforge plugin



Damn such confidence! May I ask what data your are basing this off of exactly?


mnemonic said:


> Maybe one spent more on marketing than the other.



Haha, that’s very astute of you!


----------



## LeviathanKiller

Dangit, the @bulb bot is broken again


----------



## lurgar

Dineley said:


> Im ignorant. How is vst presets and IRs in a pedal not essentially just a helix/ax8 type unit?



You're not ignorant. I just don't have enough money to get one of those units and was trying to think of something cheaper and maybe DIY


----------



## Shoeless_jose

lurgar said:


> You're not ignorant. I just don't have enough money to get one of those units and was trying to think of something cheaper and maybe DIY




Okay no worries just seems like its creeping towards just like an amp modeler pedalwoth IRs making sure i wasnt missing anything


----------



## Andrew Lloyd Webber

vertibration said:


> LMAO!!! For real though, Misha's plugin is good. I got it, and its got a lot of good perks. I mean, look...Misha is not an amp designer, neither is Joey Sturgis. Fortin is, and probably one of the best ones out there at that. So yea, people are going to flip out when he authorizes an emulation. The thing with the demos from Ola, and a few on Insta that Ive heard, is they pretty much all sound sick as hell, and that helps too. You can't just let that overshadow the fact that the Misha plugin isn't as good, because it is. Its just different. Frankly, I love the PD, and Reverb on it, and the clean channel sounds amazing as well, and thats sometimes a real pain to nail for plugins. I say get both, and use both because I don't think the Fortin has a good clean channel from the videos that I have heard obviously. Lastly, one thing I will say is that the Fortin has a chug that I have never, ever heard a plugin nail like that one does



Is this the README for the plugin?


----------



## narad

vertibration said:


> I mean, look...Misha is not an amp designer, neither is Joey Sturgis. Fortin is, and probably one of the best ones out there at that. So yea, people are going to flip out when he authorizes an emulation.



And of course that's very important. Mike probably spent a few months using his amp knowledge, sweating over a laptop, tweaking byte arrays, setting up unit tests, meticulously glancing back and forth between an open amp chassis and three monitors filled with source code. It's great to finally have an amp designer in there making these emulations.


----------



## 7 Strings of Hate

I thought this was a gear demo thread, and it turned into a drama bitchfest.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

The palm mutes at 0:04 - 0:08 has me sold on this.


----------



## bulb

narad said:


> And of course that's very important. Mike probably spent a few months using his amp knowledge, sweating over a laptop, tweaking byte arrays, setting up unit tests, meticulously glancing back and forth between an open amp chassis and three monitors filled with source code. It's great to finally have an amp designer in there making these emulations.



You do know that Neural made this right?
That’s Doug from Darkglass’s company.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

the hype train continues


----------



## narad

bulb said:


> You do know that Neural made this right?
> That’s Doug from Darkglass’s company.



Yea, that was a facetious paragraph. My pov is whether you design/build amps or just listen to amps and mix all day, you're probably equally capable of creating a good plugin if the engineers doing the actual modeling are the same. In contrast to the guy that's flipping the F out and dropping Mike's name a ton. Mike doesn't know anything about modeling.


----------



## vertibration

narad said:


> Yea, that was a facetious paragraph. My pov is whether you design/build amps or just listen to amps and mix all day, you're probably equally capable of creating a good plugin if the engineers doing the actual modeling are the same. In contrast to the guy that's flipping the F out and dropping Mike's name a ton. Mike doesn't know anything about modeling.



The point I was trying to get across (didnt explain it well enough), is that yes, Mike did not make the plugin, but his input to the design was probably detrimental in the plugins creation. No one is flipping here. Maybe my words about being an amp designer was probably not relevant to making a plugin now that I think about it, but no need to get salty. All I was trying to say is both plugins are awesome. I dont think the Fortin is killing the Misha plugin, or vice versa. I also dont think people get paid to advertise a plugin in my opinion. I think certain artists are given this plugin, and I do think they are genuine and enthusiastic about sharing videos of it. If you had to pay that many artists to share a video, that would be a pretty poor business decision financially. However, I dont know how it works if you have to pay someone who has as many followers as Ola, so I cant comment on that


----------



## Beheroth

KnightBrolaire said:


>


----------



## fob

Beheroth said:


>


Lmao


----------



## KnightBrolaire

vertibration said:


> The point I was trying to get across (didnt explain it well enough), is that yes, Mike did not make the plugin, but his input to the design was probably detrimental in the plugins creation. No one is flipping here. Maybe my words about being an amp designer was probably not relevant to making a plugin now that I think about it, but no need to get salty. All I was trying to say is both plugins are awesome. I dont think the Fortin is killing the Misha plugin, or vice versa. I also dont think people get paid to advertise a plugin in my opinion. I think certain artists are given this plugin, and I do think they are genuine and enthusiastic about sharing videos of it. If you had to pay that many artists to share a video, that would be a pretty poor business decision financially. However, I dont know how it works if you have to pay someone who has as many followers as Ola, so I cant comment on that


giving people stuff for free or paying them to hype a product is something businesses do all the time. I'm sure a lot of the youtube/insta-famous guitarists were tickled pink to get some free stuff, or some money to play around with a plugin that most of them likely would have tried out anyways. It's good targeted marketing.


----------



## narad

vertibration said:


> The point I was trying to get across (didnt explain it well enough), is that yes, Mike did not make the plugin, but his input to the design was probably detrimental in the plugins creation. No one is flipping here. Maybe my words about being an amp designer was probably not relevant to making a plugin now that I think about it, but no need to get salty.





also you said:


> I mean, look...Misha is not an amp designer, neither is Joey Sturgis. Fortin is, and probably one of the best ones out there at that. So yea, people are going to flip out when he authorizes an emulation.



^^ That's what I don't agree with. And uh..._detrimental_ might not have been the word you were looking for there.


----------



## Kyle Jordan

Damn. This sounds REALLY good in many of these demos.


----------



## vertibration

narad said:


> ^^ That's what I don't agree with. And uh..._detrimental_ might not have been the word you were looking for there.



I am busy as hell today, and typed pretty quick, yea detrimental was the wrong wording. I meant to say instrumental. Thanks for the grammar correction


----------



## I play music

bulb said:


> You do know that Neural made this right?
> That’s Doug from Darkglass’s company.


Hm... so that would actually make my idea possible of the Fortin amp simulation in a small pedal like the Mooer Micro preamps. Not saying it is going to happen but it would be very cool and Darkglass/Neural DSP have already proven they can make all it takes: Digital pedals and amp simulation


----------



## oracles

Another new demo


----------



## Deadpool_25

OliOliver said:


> Frankly, the intro he uses sounds awful. I'm not going to claim to be a great sound engineer, but if you're going to use a tag on the front of each video of your gear review channel, it better sound a hell of a lot better than his does. He's a great reviewer, though, certainly knows his stuff. Fluff suffers from the same thing, although I can't say his production and riffing particularly sells me on anything.



Interesting. Fluff’s riffing could sell me on about anything lol


----------



## Deadpool_25

LeviathanKiller said:


> Dangit, the @bulb bot is broken again



You mentioned me?


----------



## LeviathanKiller

Deadpool_25 said:


> You mentioned me?



No haha
Misha himself posted the same comment three times at two different points of time (one was just a genuine double-post) in the thread over the past day or so lol


----------



## oracles

Deadpool_25 said:


> Interesting. Fluff’s riffing could sell me on about anything lol



I'm the exact opposite, I find he makes most things he demo's sound terrible. The PD demo, his fuzz demos, and his Lundgren demo are catastrophically bad


----------



## Deadpool_25

LeviathanKiller said:


> No haha
> Misha himself posted the same comment three times at two different points of time (one was just a genuine double-post) in the thread over the past day or so lol



Haha. I know. Was poking fun at the other thread


----------



## KnightBrolaire

oracles said:


> Another new demo



alright, I was a cynic, but the fact that it sounds solid in every demo besides arnold's sealed the deal. guess i'm preordering it


----------



## Deadpool_25

oracles said:


> I'm the exact opposite, I find he makes most things he demo's sound terrible. The PD demo, his fuzz demos, and his Lundgren demo are catastrophically bad



Hm. I really only watch most of his amp demos and dig his riffing style.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

Is it standalone? (has an interface version which _doesn't _require a DAW)
That was one of (if not the only lol) nice things about Positive Grid BIAS


----------



## axxessdenied

Flappydoodle said:


> I just watched that video and was going to post here, but you beat me to it
> 
> Does sound pretty good. But it also sounds like Ola. He's demo'd Amplitube, Mercuriall Spark, U530 and Triaxis, BIAS FX/AMP, and probably more - and he always sounds kinda the same.
> 
> I really wish there was a demo. The NeuralDSP simulation of the Darkglass B7K had a demo, and I ended up buying that. So they're obviously capable of doing demos with their distribution system (through iLok plugin). Wonder why there isn't a demo of this Fortin model.


His Bias 2 demo sounded like a steaming pile of doodoo, lol. He can't make everything sound great.


----------



## noob_pwn

Darkglass Doug sent me this plugin to beta test. It's totally awesome and super easy to get it to sound great. I have a fortin on order and this has made me even more excited about it.
I was asked to do a demo too:


----------



## Flappydoodle

noob_pwn said:


> Darkglass Doug sent me this plugin to beta test. It's totally awesome and super easy to get it to sound great. I have a fortin on order and this has made me even more excited about it.
> I was asked to do a demo too:




Look forward to it, but the link seems broken?


----------



## noob_pwn

Flappydoodle said:


> Look forward to it, but the link seems broken?


all fixed!


----------



## vertibration

noob_pwn said:


> Darkglass Doug sent me this plugin to beta test. It's totally awesome and super easy to get it to sound great. I have a fortin on order and this has made me even more excited about it.
> I was asked to do a demo too:




Thanks for the vid, new song sounds real good. Your new Jacksons are looking slick too!


----------



## makecamera

Anyone know what the release date is? Paul Ozz mentioned today (8/28/2018) in his video, but that doesn't seem to be the case.


----------



## fob

makecamera said:


> Anyone know what the release date is? Paul Ozz mentioned today (8/28/2018) in his video, but that doesn't seem to be the case.


I messaged Fortin on insta last week when they unveiled it and they said “within a week or so”.


----------



## vertibration

My guess is this weekend.


----------



## Steinmetzify

Anybody know if there’s going to be a demo available like there is for the Darkglass?


----------



## JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo

Deadpool_25 said:


> Interesting. Fluff’s riffing could sell me on about anything lol



Different strokes, I guess. His riffs sound uninspired to me, like he loaded up a key on Guitar Pro and right clicked a riff together.


----------



## Deadpool_25

OliOliver said:


> Different strokes, I guess. His riffs sound uninspired to me, like he loaded up a key on Guitar Pro and right clicked a riff together.



Lol. If so I should try doing exactly that


----------



## lewis

8 string!!


----------



## Ericjutsu

awesome! I think I'll buy this plugin when it comes out.


----------



## Rev2010

So far from the vids on YouTube I'm really impressed and looking forward to trying this out. Was tempted to do the pre-order thing but I've really learned it's better to wait and try before you buy. Hopefully a demo will be out soon.


Rev.


----------



## skewkus13

Just got an email from Fortin saying they're releasing "within the next two weeks". Super bummed.


----------



## makecamera




----------



## Krucifixtion

I know there's a lot of hype with this, but I pre-ordered because the tones from what I have heard seem pretty decent and I don't really have any good amp sims. I do have my Axe-Fx II, but nothing I can just plug straight in with that sounds good. Axe-Fx is great, but at my friends where I do a lot of DI tracking it will be interesting to compare this to the Helix Native plugin. For a little over $100 i'm down!


----------



## fob

skewkus13 said:


> Just got an email from Fortin saying they're releasing "within the next two weeks". Super bummed.


----------



## Flappydoodle

skewkus13 said:


> Just got an email from Fortin saying they're releasing "within the next two weeks". Super bummed.



Basically, how much more guaranteed $$ they can get from the hype train before the pre-orders slow down. Shitty tactic really. There's actually no legit reason for pre-ordering software. It's not like there's a limited quantity which will sell out. And especially since this runs with iLok, there isn't even the piracy excuse.


----------



## Andrew Lloyd Webber

Mike’s stepping into a market in which preorder shenanigans are not only standard, but the single determinant of whether the product trips over its own dick upon leaving the gate. If he wanted to go against the grain, the product wouldn’t even have been considered.

The target consumer for this recent slew of DAW amp plugins is the djent/prog-aestheticist who already has a djent/prog rig and DAW, but needs to always be filling the void in their soul with the latest and greatest means of getting their hypothetical guitar signal to sound like a spring door stop mixed with a utensil in a garbage disposal, no matter how redundant each replacement is.

In this lifestyle, the outboard components of the perfectly functional and streamlined bedroom rig are constantly being recontextualized as, and relegated to, the “gig rig for when I gig some day” - AKA, the corner.

Imagine if Apple released a $50 emulation of your iPhone to be used from your iPad, but (due to unqualified parenting) you only ever used either in your bedroom - So you’re looking at your $825 phone while you’re using the $875 tablet’s $50 emulation of the $825 phone, rather than picking up the phone. And now that you’ve paid the $50 for the emulation of the $825 phone, you find yourself consciously choosing the cheaper emulation over the more expensive hardware in order to justify the cost of the cheaper emulation, rather than the more expensive hardware.

And because the target market is limited those who think this is a great idea, the model comes loaded with an inherent imperative to saturate the Youtube Influencer-consumer market with enough role models in a chair bragging that they’ve replaced their collection of outboard hardware with redundant emulation that the demographic is inundated with the tacit assumption that _this all just makes sense, somehow._

And that neckbeard-niche is such a slim slice of the _already_-niche djent/prog market, that the only realistic means of one of these products dominating sales is, again, if at least one of the major players in the competition trips over their dick out the gate. Whomever the major players in the redundant DAW amp plugin market end up being, they will only succeed by their competitors’ abject failure.

Come Winter NAMM, we’ll all be playing armchair CEO about how, in hindsight, _Company_ _A_ shouldn’t have bet everything on a singular celebrity endorsement drumming up preorders, whereas _Company B _underestimated how much the announced release date-postponement _harmed _preorders. Meanwhile, _Companies_ _C _and _D _out of left-field could have had equal success, if only _D _hadn’t failed to address crash-bugs in the first week following release. This resulted in _C _being the most well-regarded, even though it ultimately had fewer features than what was promised by _D_.

And then, come the Winter NAMM plugin announcements, those who constitute the target-consumer base will be afflicted with amnesia.

This market exists _not just _because _these_ people spend the money,















but because they perpetually believe they’re _One Major Purchase _away from being this:


----------



## prlgmnr

I take it the hidden joke is that one of those people is you?


----------



## Andrew Lloyd Webber




----------



## Metropolis

I don't even know what is going on in this thread anymore... Here's Meshuggah'ish demo I found.


----------



## Sean Richardson

having an each way personally... having used ReValver for ages (shit I used to use Bias on an iPad into a Line 6 as an FRFR), I am very very keen to get my hands on this one. Preordered as soon as I saw the OLA bell ring on my feed.

presently getting my head round the JST Toneforge Misha thing (its good - interest purchase experience though) in preparation for this one dropping.

Fortin stuff is impressive but WAYYY out of my league for real amps $ wise, to be able to get a VST/AU for essentially cents on the dollar has me salivating.

don't get too wound up about one V's the other - its boring (unless you like to go at it on forums - then knock yourself out), focus on the (virtual) gear thats dropping right now. Digital is soooo good these days.


----------



## JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo

I feel a little triggered by ALW's post, but can't say it's wrong.


----------



## Sean Richardson

Metropolis said:


> I don't even know what is going on in this thread anymore... Here's Meshuggah'ish demo I found.




it got I think; philosophical 

speaking of which - read the new Devin Townsend ebook, Thats some true philosophy there.


----------



## Sogradde

Andrew Lloyd Webber said:


> [...]


I have an amp+cab for band practice and shows and amp sims for playing at home and pre-production of our music. Fight me.


----------



## Andrew Lloyd Webber

Sogradde said:


> I have an amp+cab for band practice and shows and amp sims for playing at home and pre-production of our music. Fight me.



Bro, first of all, you totally need to:

- Replace your amp with a single-channel, single rack-space digital pre with an FX loop, MIDI switching for on/off, and a blue LED, run that into a two-space PA with 6 EL84s and a MIDI-switchable DI into a tube-powered FOH IR loader, then use the proprietary, outboard S/PDIF buffer/splitter to run your IR loader and backing tracks from your MacBook to FOH.

- There are four must-own pedals for your single channel, digital pre:

1. Horizon Devices TS-9 Plus Bass Knob in preorder-exclusive green.

2. Fractal 2XNS401 Dual Noise Gate/Suppressor taken from the Axe FX III and enclosed in a $600 box with color-changing LED on/off footswitch and 6-color high definition LCD screen for reading “on” or “off” in the dark.

3. Snark Pedal pedalboard-mounted chromatic plasma-LCD strobe tuner that clips to your headstock from the floor.

4. Strymon Columbia Ambient Disintigration Multi-Delay. It uses fourteen MIDI-controllable convolution reverbs to simulate outer space.

- Chances are, your cab needs a laser-etched grill; and you may as well buy what I’m using next month instead of cheaping-out with an aftermarket grill. I’m thinking two 80w 10s and a pair of 25w 15s, so your ERG isn’t overpowered by what isn’t filtered from your bass player’s tube high-pass distortion pedal. As far as what brand of speakers, just go on YouTube and limit results to whatever’s been making the gear channel rounds in the past four days.

- Whatever you’re using for “pre-production”, you need to start getting serious about your pre-production mastering. There’s a new app currently on preorder for 2021 that you can master your pre-production tracks with. It’s currently only for iPhone X, but the preorder bonus includes demo-quality presets from top artists who haven’t been announced yet. So that’s plenty of time to think about what DAW interface you’ll want for that one iPhone X app.

- I don’t know what amp sim you’re using, but it’s wrong. Fluff and Positive Grid are coming out with a plugin based on seven of his favorite vintage high-gain lead channels from 1995, and each one has a TS808 hard-wired to always be “on” and dimed, with a single virtual knob to tighten up the low end. It will go perfect with the pre-production mastering app, because the site is holding an exclusive preorder for the next two years.

“You’re welcome”, because your tone will thank me for it.


----------



## GunpointMetal

You're so good at trolling that I'm actually starting to think you may have a serious mental issue.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

Andrew Lloyd Webber said:


> Mike’s stepping into a market in which preorder shenanigans are not only standard, but the single determinant of whether the product trips over its own dick upon leaving the gate. If he wanted to go against the grain, the product wouldn’t even have been considered.
> 
> The target consumer for this recent slew of DAW amp plugins is the djent/prog-aestheticist who already has a djent/prog rig and DAW, but needs to always be filling the void in their soul with the latest and greatest means of getting their hypothetical guitar signal to sound like a spring door stop mixed with a utensil in a garbage disposal, no matter how redundant each replacement is.
> 
> In this lifestyle, the outboard components of the perfectly functional and streamlined bedroom rig are constantly being recontextualized as, and relegated to, the “gig rig for when I gig some day” - AKA, the corner.
> 
> Imagine if Apple released a $50 emulation of your iPhone to be used from your iPad, but (due to unqualified parenting) you only ever used either in your bedroom - So you’re looking at your $825 phone while you’re using the $875 tablet’s $50 emulation of the $825 phone, rather than picking up the phone. And now that you’ve paid the $50 for the emulation of the $825 phone, you find yourself consciously choosing the cheaper emulation over the more expensive hardware in order to justify the cost of the cheaper emulation, rather than the more expensive hardware.
> 
> And because the target market is limited those who think this is a great idea, the model comes loaded with an inherent imperative to saturate the Youtube Influencer-consumer market with enough role models in a chair bragging that they’ve replaced their collection of outboard hardware with redundant emulation that the demographic is inundated with the tacit assumption that _this all just makes sense, somehow._
> 
> And that neckbeard-niche is such a slim slice of the _already_-niche djent/prog market, that the only realistic means of one of these products dominating sales is, again, if at least one of the major players in the competition trips over their dick out the gate. Whomever the major players in the redundant DAW amp plugin market end up being, they will only succeed by their competitors’ abject failure.
> 
> Come Winter NAMM, we’ll all be playing armchair CEO about how, in hindsight, _Company_ _A_ shouldn’t have bet everything on a singular celebrity endorsement drumming up preorders, whereas _Company B _underestimated how much the announced release date-postponement _harmed _preorders. Meanwhile, _Companies_ _C _and _D _out of left-field could have had equal success, if only _D _hadn’t failed to address crash-bugs in the first week following release. This resulted in _C _being the most well-regarded, even though it ultimately had fewer features than what was promised by _D_.
> 
> And then, come the Winter NAMM plugin announcements, those who constitute the target-consumer base will be afflicted with amnesia.
> 
> This market exists _not just _because _these_ people spend the money,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but because they perpetually believe they’re _One Major Purchase _away from being this:



EXTREMELY spot on.
That's sig-worthy.


----------



## fob

At this point I’m just checking these threads for entertainment. lol what’s happening


----------



## sakeido

ALW is spot on but seems critical of the underlying business idea, which is to separate underachieving trend chasers from their money. I 100% endorse any plan to bilk neckbeards of their cash, especially if the plan is to take their money before they have had any chance to test out the product they are paying for. People who pre-order are the fucking worst. 

It's not all bad though. The pervasiveness of this stuff makes it really easy to skip past all the trendy djent music because they all use the same production style. If the guitars sound like duck quacks reverberating off sheet aluminum, I hit it with the thumbs down and bail before they get a +1 on their view count.

re: the actual plug-in, only Ola's demo has sounded good. Bad demos are 5 to 1 outnumbering the good ones. Will wait until a trial version is released.


----------



## fob

mistakes were made


----------



## Xaios

All modern VSTs are powered by a tiny clone of Christian Olde Wolbers playing a washboard with a crack pipe.


----------



## fob

On a somewhat related note, does DSP have good sales worth waiting for? I want the Darkglass and it’s not too bad of a price but I can wait if there’s a some sort of significant difference.


----------



## Sogradde

Andrew Lloyd Webber said:


> [...]


I'm sold. Where do I sign up for a season pass?


----------



## cwhitey2

@Andrew Lloyd Webber my god, you are funny sir


----------



## Kaura

ALW's posts are so spot-on that I'm seriously considering to start recording everything with a Pocket POD and free drum samples from the internet. That's actually how I started and shouldn't have just went with instead of jumping the amp plugin bandwagon.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

Sogradde said:


> I'm sold. Where do I sign up for a season pass?



Season pass gives you access to "free" presets every quarter of the year for the next year


----------



## B.M.F.

Andrew Lloyd Webber said:


> Epicness


Thank you for summing up pretty much everything I detest about today’s “metal” (oh whatever if you can even call it that) in one post.


----------



## Flappydoodle

sakeido said:


> ALW is spot on but seems critical of the underlying business idea, which is to separate underachieving trend chasers from their money. I 100% endorse any plan to bilk neckbeards of their cash, especially if the plan is to take their money before they have had any chance to test out the product they are paying for. People who pre-order are the fucking worst.
> 
> It's not all bad though. The pervasiveness of this stuff makes it really easy to skip past all the trendy djent music because they all use the same production style. If the guitars sound like duck quacks reverberating off sheet aluminum, I hit it with the thumbs down and bail before they get a +1 on their view count.
> 
> re: the actual plug-in, only Ola's demo has sounded good. Bad demos are 5 to 1 outnumbering the good ones. Will wait until a trial version is released.



Agreed. Pre-ordering is retarded. Especially to save $10, lol. It's software. It won't go out of stock. There's no need to "reserve". Wanting to desperately be the first to use something you only just heard about.. urgh, that says everything about the human mentality doesn't it.

I'll wait to try anything before I buy now. I've been burned before. JST Menace had lots of good Youtube videos, but it was shit. Luckily, I bought it for $10 instead of $120. I got some cab impulses too. They were ok, but not worth the money.

BIAS FX got me too. That was a total waste of money, but I got suckered into the hype. All the simultaneous videos flooding YouTube. I bought it, then realised you couldn't do half the stuff without also buying BIAS AMP. and then they released a bunch of expansion packs which broke lots of Tonecloud presets. It's not even installed on my computer now.

People are also fucking up their established brands now by jumping onto the plugin market.

Brainworx made some endorsed ENGL plugins. I tried a demo. They were HORRIBLE. Noisy, muffled garbage. The stock impulses were horrible. Most of the knobs felt like they did nothing. It sounded NOTHING like an ENGL amp sounds, and I am very familiar with them. That's kinda damaged ENGL in my mind now, because they endorsed that shit.

The Waves PRS plugins are also pretty bad from what I've seen. I can't believe they're actually endorsed by PRS. I hope the quick cash Paul made was worth the damage to his brand of putting his name on something rubbish.

And sorry for the direct callout, but I'm not going to support Misha's stuff either. Guy puts his name onto absolutely ANYTHING which pays him. Axe FX, then a signature amp (absolutely ridiculous, especially when I saw him doing a rig rundown trying to explain why he had an amp, wasn't using it for half the songs, how it didn't integrate at all into their automated live rig etc). And now, a year later, a signature plugin which isn't modelled off the signature amp... wtf. Plus, I had a bad experience with JST last time.

And finally, Fortin. Worshipped by many, with a cult following. Let's see if this lives up to the hype. Ola's demo sounded good - but his demos also sounded good for BIAS, Amplitube, those Mooer things, and the 20 other plugins he's told us were awesome.

The real lesson learned: you can't trust anything on Youtube, and you should try to be happy with your current sound.



fob said:


> On a somewhat related note, does DSP have good sales worth waiting for? I want the Darkglass and it’s not too bad of a price but I can wait if there’s a some sort of significant difference.



I've never seen a sale, or had any emailed sales from them.


----------



## Shoeless_jose

Lets not forget the most important part of the product cycle.

Pre announcing your announcememts


----------



## fob

Dineley said:


> Lets not forget the most important part of the product cycle.
> 
> Pre announcing your announcememts


Big things coming!!!!


----------



## mongey

Andrew Lloyd Webber said:


> Mike’s stepping into a market ......and so on


well fuck , nailed it .
truth told


----------



## vertibration

Flappydoodle said:


> Agreed. Pre-ordering is retarded. Especially to save $10, lol. It's software. It won't go out of stock. There's no need to "reserve". Wanting to desperately be the first to use something you only just heard about.. urgh, that says everything about the human mentality doesn't it.
> 
> I'll wait to try anything before I buy now. I've been burned before. JST Menace had lots of good Youtube videos, but it was shit. Luckily, I bought it for $10 instead of $120. I got some cab impulses too. They were ok, but not worth the money.
> 
> BIAS FX got me too. That was a total waste of money, but I got suckered into the hype. All the simultaneous videos flooding YouTube. I bought it, then realised you couldn't do half the stuff without also buying BIAS AMP. and then they released a bunch of expansion packs which broke lots of Tonecloud presets. It's not even installed on my computer now.
> 
> People are also fucking up their established brands now by jumping onto the plugin market.
> 
> Brainworx made some endorsed ENGL plugins. I tried a demo. They were HORRIBLE. Noisy, muffled garbage. The stock impulses were horrible. Most of the knobs felt like they did nothing. It sounded NOTHING like an ENGL amp sounds, and I am very familiar with them. That's kinda damaged ENGL in my mind now, because they endorsed that shit.
> 
> The Waves PRS plugins are also pretty bad from what I've seen. I can't believe they're actually endorsed by PRS. I hope the quick cash Paul made was worth the damage to his brand of putting his name on something rubbish.
> 
> And sorry for the direct callout, but I'm not going to support Misha's stuff either. Guy puts his name onto absolutely ANYTHING which pays him. Axe FX, then a signature amp (absolutely ridiculous, especially when I saw him doing a rig rundown trying to explain why he had an amp, wasn't using it for half the songs, how it didn't integrate at all into their automated live rig etc). And now, a year later, a signature plugin which isn't modelled off the signature amp... wtf. Plus, I had a bad experience with JST last time.
> 
> And finally, Fortin. Worshipped by many, with a cult following. Let's see if this lives up to the hype. Ola's demo sounded good - but his demos also sounded good for BIAS, Amplitube, those Mooer things, and the 20 other plugins he's told us were awesome.
> 
> The real lesson learned: you can't trust anything on Youtube, and you should try to be happy with your current sound.
> 
> 
> 
> I've never seen a sale, or had any emailed sales from them.



I seen Misha play at Revolution in Amityville NY last summer I believe, and they used his signature heads across the board for everyone I think. Cant really say for sure if it was all 3 of them, but def Misha, and it sounded insane. 

You are dead on about Bias, the way they operate, it feels like a "made in China" type of plugin


----------



## Kyle Jordan

Flappydoodle said:


> BIAS FX got me too. That was a total waste of money, but I got suckered into the hype. All the simultaneous videos flooding YouTube. I bought it, then realised you couldn't do half the stuff without also buying BIAS AMP. and then they released a bunch of expansion packs which broke lots of Tonecloud presets. It's not even installed on my computer now.



That's what did it for me. I purchased the full bore BIAS AMP and FX set up for $400 and not only did it sound fairly bad, it had so many different issues that it was unusable. Never encountered the same from other plugins. I apparently got very lucky in getting an easy refund of my money but after that, I became extremely skeptical of all plug ins because not only was BIAS a disappointment, but others before and after were as well. Hell, I still go back and forth on the best amp plugin being between ReAxis and Ignite Emissary. And Emissary is FREE!

I've liked a good number of the Nameless demos so far, but I will not purchase until I can at least sample it with my setup. If they offer no demo, I will not buy it. And again, I think it sounds great so far.


----------



## technomancer

fob said:


> Big things coming!!!!



You are clearly on the Facebook group 



vertibration said:


> I seen Misha play at Revolution in Amityville NY last summer I believe, and they used his signature heads across the board for everyone I think. Cant really say for sure if it was all 3 of them, but def Misha, and it sounded insane.
> 
> You are dead on about Bias, the way they operate, it feels like a "made in China" type of plugin



Unless something changed he's using the head as a poweramp for the AxeFx into the Peavey cabs.


----------



## Vyn

technomancer said:


> You are clearly on the Facebook group
> 
> 
> 
> Unless something changed he's using the head as a poweramp for the AxeFx into the Peavey cabs.



Also was only Jake and Misha using the Invectives as power amps, Holcomb was using an SD Powerstage from memory (been a while since watching that rig rundown).


----------



## vertibration

Vyn said:


> Also was only Jake and Misha using the Invectives as power amps, Holcomb was using an SD Powerstage from memory (been a while since watching that rig rundown).



I just dont see the reason to sport a big head for just a power amp and looks. I mean, maybe its both. I dont know, I miss the days of guitarists using real heads, and pedals. Seen Pantera when I was 16 play at Giants Stadium with White Zombie and the Deftones and I left with hair on my chest


----------



## mikah912

vertibration said:


> I just dont see the reason to sport a big head for just a power amp and looks. I mean, maybe its both. I dont know, I miss the days of guitarists using real heads, and pedals. Seen Pantera when I was 16 play at Giants Stadium with White Zombie and the Deftones and I left with hair on my chest



When's the last time you saw a rock band playing that size of venue? What about the time before that?


----------



## Metropolis

vertibration said:


> I just dont see the reason to sport a big head for just a power amp and looks. I mean, maybe its both. I dont know, I miss the days of guitarists using real heads, and pedals. Seen Pantera when I was 16 play at Giants Stadium with White Zombie and the Deftones and I left with hair on my chest



They are for stage volume too. I've hated couple of times to be in one of the first rows of the audience and not being able to hear guitars properly.


----------



## Shask

vertibration said:


> I just dont see the reason to sport a big head for just a power amp and looks. I mean, maybe its both. I dont know, I miss the days of guitarists using real heads, and pedals. Seen Pantera when I was 16 play at Giants Stadium with White Zombie and the Deftones and I left with hair on my chest


I saw that tour also! Still one of my favorite shows to this day!


----------



## vertibration

mikah912 said:


> When's the last time you saw a rock band playing that size of venue? What about the time before that?



After 1996 I was like 16 at the time, I went to Tattoo the Earth tour, and the Big Day Out tour. Early 2000's I think. Thats when shows really were amazing. Now its all Hip Hop and Dance music that pack out Arenas in NY. Most bands play club venues now like the Paramount in Huntington NY or NYC clubs

This was the list of Bands that played Tattoo the Earth in Jersey back in 2000

Slayer
System of a Down
Sepultura
Hatebreed
Stone Temple Pilots one show in Portland
Lamb of God
Slipknot
Hed PE
Mudvayne
Downset
Metallica one show in New Jersey
Full Devil Jacket
Famous
Amen
U.P.O.
Nothingface
PPM
Cold
Relative Ash
Systematic
Six Feet Under
Candiria
Sevendust
God Forbid
Darkest Hour
Unearth
All That Remains
Dropkick Murphys
Sick of It All
The Workhorse Movement Pontiac show
Tiger Army
Converge
The Unseen
Reach the Sky
Stretch Armstrong
Kill Your Idols
Nashville Pussy
Professional Murder Music
One Minute Silence


----------



## JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo

Kaura said:


> ALW's posts are so spot-on that I'm seriously considering to start recording everything with a Pocket POD and free drum samples from the internet. That's actually how I started and shouldn't have just went with instead of jumping the amp plugin bandwagon.



I remember the first recording I ever made - I had no clue what I was doing, I just had a Pod X3 plugged in via USB, a pirated copy of Superior Drummer and my guitar and bass. The song is long gone so I can't re-listen, but I'm convinced I focused way more on the song and sound itself rather than plugins and what I "should" be doing that I made something that was actually a lot better than some of my more recent attempts.


----------



## Metropolis

It's not plugin's fault that you are doing something wrong, or concentrate on some things more than you should be. Keep writing and production phases separated from each other to avoid that.

Ola shared this on facebook, sounds absolutely crushing in here.


----------



## JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo

Metropolis said:


> It's not plugin's fault that you are doing something wrong, or concentrate on some things more than you should be.



I didn't say it was. All I meant was it's easy to get sucked into the plugin marketing machine and think they'll make your works better when really you should be using your ears and your own instincts rather than thinking the latest magic plugin will make your mix godlike. Basically agreeing with ALW with approximately 100% less hyperbole.

From all my years messing around with my home studio (and I really want to stress that I'm no professional grade sound engineer) I've learnt above all that "magic" plugins aren't the be-all-end-all of your mix - stock compressors, limiters, and EQs will get you to a good mix if you learn how to really use them. The vast majority of these channels and services that want to make you a better engineer are at the end of the day trying to sell you something. Nail the Mix (for example) is amazing because it gets you professional acts to work with, awesome seminars from professional mixing engineers, but at it's core, Joey is trying to sell you plugins.


----------



## vertibration

OliOliver said:


> I didn't say it was. All I meant was it's easy to get sucked into the plugin marketing machine and think they'll make your works better when really you should be using your ears and your own instincts rather than thinking the latest magic plugin will make your mix godlike. Basically agreeing with ALW with approximately 100% less hyperbole.
> 
> From all my years messing around with my home studio (and I really want to stress that I'm no professional grade sound engineer) I've learnt above all that "magic" plugins aren't the be-all-end-all of your mix - stock compressors, limiters, and EQs will get you to a good mix if you learn how to really use them. The vast majority of these channels and services that want to make you a better engineer are at the end of the day trying to sell you something. Nail the Mix (for example) is amazing because it gets you professional acts to work with, awesome seminars from professional mixing engineers, but at it's core, Joey is trying to sell you plugins.



Agreed, I actually was struggling with tone on a song Im writing using Toneforge, but I threw EZMIX Mark Lewis on there with Fab Filter Pro Q2, and problem solved. I still think the Fortin will kick ass, but whenever I get caught up in a plugin storm, I gotta take a step back and realize buying new ones is not the answer. Good EQ, and a good starting point can work better most of the time


----------



## I play music

OliOliver said:


> I didn't say it was. All I meant was it's easy to get sucked into the plugin marketing machine and think they'll make your works better when really you should be using your ears and your own instincts rather than thinking the latest magic plugin will make your mix godlike. Basically agreeing with ALW with approximately 100% less hyperbole.
> 
> From all my years messing around with my home studio (and I really want to stress that I'm no professional grade sound engineer) I've learnt above all that "magic" plugins aren't the be-all-end-all of your mix - stock compressors, limiters, and EQs will get you to a good mix if you learn how to really use them. The vast majority of these channels and services that want to make you a better engineer are at the end of the day trying to sell you something. Nail the Mix (for example) is amazing because it gets you professional acts to work with, awesome seminars from professional mixing engineers, but at it's core, Joey is trying to sell you plugins.





vertibration said:


> Agreed, I actually was struggling with tone on a song Im writing using Toneforge, but I threw EZMIX Mark Lewis on there with Fab Filter Pro Q2, and problem solved. I still think the Fortin will kick ass, but whenever I get caught up in a plugin storm, I gotta take a step back and realize buying new ones is not the answer. Good EQ, and a good starting point can work better most of the time



I think it's always good to remember that all the guys from Ola to Misha started with very standard inexpensive gear(POD / Harley Benton cab with SM57 ...). In my opinion their sound has not improved from when they started despite all the expensive gear that they got over time. 

The only guy who has stepped up the sound quality over time in my opinion is Keith Merrow but I think his favourite amp is still his old 5150 for example so it's probably more because of him improving his abilities and not because of new boutique gear.


----------



## skewkus13

This is now the Chinese Democracy of plugins. Im going to be 87 by the time it releases.


----------



## fob

skewkus13 said:


> This is now the Chinese Democracy of plugins. Im going to be 87 by the time it releases.


That’s what I’m wondering too. It seems past testing phase, right? At this point, probably the majority of the market they want knows about it and either pre ordered or is waiting on more demos... what’s the hold up?


----------



## Steinmetzify

skewkus13 said:


> This is now the Chinese Democracy of plugins. Im going to be 87 by the time it releases.



Difference between this and CD was no one gave any fucks about CD. 

Seriously tho...aren’t we having some instant gratification issues here? It’s only been 10 days....I remember when Mercuriall announced ReAxis and we had to wait over a month for it...


----------



## fob

steinmetzify said:


> Difference between this and CD was no one gave any fucks about CD.
> 
> Seriously tho...aren’t we having some instant gratification issues here? It’s only been 10 days....I remember when Mercuriall announced ReAxis and we had to wait over a month for it...


Well when literally everyone you follow is playing it for promotional purposes and you already paid for it... yes I would like to know why I need to wait longer if it’s ready and out there already?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Wait, you guys bought this on "pre-order" without a concrete release date? 



Ya'll never cease to amaze me.


----------



## fob

MaxOfMetal said:


> Wait, you guys bought this on "pre-order" without a concrete release date?
> 
> 
> 
> Ya'll never cease to amaze me.


Not playing a victim. Asking for some answers. I am willing to support their first release, but they need to address some things if they want future support. It’s a give and take with consumer/business relationships imo.


----------



## Rev2010

MaxOfMetal said:


> Wait, you guys bought this on "pre-order" without a concrete release date?



Not I. Still anxiously awaiting the demo! I don't buy before I try except for items that are protected via return policy.


Rev.


----------



## Steinmetzify

fob said:


> Well when literally everyone you follow is playing it for promotional purposes and you already paid for it... yes I would like to know why I need to wait longer if it’s ready and out there already?



Bet you anything it's iLok bullshit.....they know these guys (YT demo dudes) aren't going to share it around; no one would talk to them or give them demo stuff ever again if it became known they did that, but they know reg peeps would.

Prob just waiting on that....


----------



## vertibration

I think its going to be out by this coming Friday.


----------



## vertibration

Actually Fortin posted on his Insta that its coming out thursday for those that preordered


----------



## skewkus13

vertibration said:


> Actually Fortin posted on his Insta that its coming out thursday for those that preordered


Can confirm, also seen the post. Fortin Chinese Democracy suite set for Thursday for those who preordered.... or is it???


----------



## Shoeless_jose

The youtube demos could also have been sort of one final beta test type of thing too. See how it plays out in the wild. Get comments from respected guys who try lots of things so their feedback actually holds value.

This is hardly an unfair amount of time to release. Lets ease off on the piss baby antics


----------



## narad

Dineley said:


> This is hardly an unfair amount of time to release. Lets ease off on the piss baby antics



Is it out yet?? Is it out yet, Daddy?? Is it out?? Is it out? What time zone is Mike in I want to synch our watches so I don't miss an announcement!! Oh i just checked Mike's Facebook and it says he's online right now!! This is it!!!! This is it!!!!


----------



## KnightBrolaire

jesus christ it hasn't even been 2 wks since the demos came out. Chill out.
also paul ozz did another demo with @oracles 
acoustic guitars are the new meta


----------



## axxessdenied

Holy entitlement. LOL!


----------



## fob

axxessdenied said:


> Holy entitlement. LOL!


When you already paid, yes you are entitled to somethings.


----------



## vertibration

narad said:


> Is it out yet?? Is it out yet, Daddy?? Is it out?? Is it out? What time zone is Mike in I want to synch our watches so I don't miss an announcement!! Oh i just checked Mike's Facebook and it says he's online right now!! This is it!!!! This is it!!!!


----------



## Shoeless_jose

fob said:


> When you already paid, yes you are entitled to somethings.




Did they have a promised release date that was missed???? You pre ordered. That means paying before its available. Hence the PRE part


----------



## axxessdenied

fob said:


> When you already paid, yes you are entitled to somethings.


you preordered it at a discounted price. You could have waited until it was out and just paid full price. I'm looking forward to a quality release. Glad to see someone not just rushing to put something out for the sake of it being released. Do it right.


----------



## fob

Dineley said:


> Did they have a promised release date that was missed???? You pre ordered. That means paying before its available. Hence the PRE part


Once again, I’m not complaining. Please don’t nit pick and quote me out of context to show how I may have sounded like I’m complaining because I’m not. In fact my statement could be said from the consumer or product manufacturer POV. I’m simply stating a fact and giving general feedback to how pre orders can be improved upon in my opinion. I’m not against pre orders. I think there’s some incentive for both sides, but again, it could be done better or smoother. Just feedback. Put the pitchforks away.

More edits:
This isn’t a bad pre order release either. I’m hyped as hell and it came super soon and unexpected, and the reviews are raving. I’m just saying as someone who already had their money taken to participate in a pre order release, there are a few reasonable expectations that I think could be met better. I’m sure they want to make each experience as best as it can be so more people trust their name and product. If they handle the next time with a even better experience, I am much more likely to be happy to pre order, get a discounted rate and whatever else, and be enjoy their products because I get what I pay for from a solid company.

Again tho... it’s been practically 2 weeks since the announcement and release of this so that’s fast as fuck. No complaints here personally lol


----------



## sakeido

fob said:


> I’m just saying as someone who already had their money taken to participate in a pre order release, there are a few reasonable expectations that I think could be met better



Your money was GIVEN not TAKEN. Huge difference. 

There was no reason for them to do pre-orders at all in this case. The product was already full developed, beta tested, then the testers were given the go ahead to make their YouTube demos.. it's not like they needed pre-order crowdfunding to finish developing the plugin. 

There was no reason for you to pre-order either. It'll be cheaper at Christmas


----------



## fob

sakeido said:


> Your money was GIVEN not TAKEN. Huge difference.
> 
> There was no reason for them to do pre-orders at all in this case. The product was already full developed, beta tested, then the testers were given the go ahead to make their YouTube demos.. it's not like they needed pre-order crowdfunding to finish developing the plugin.
> 
> There was no reason for you to pre-order either. It'll be cheaper at Christmas


The money can be taken on delivery. It can be processed through payments. They set up the systems in those ways, then there are varying expectations to each one. Totally your opinion if you don’t wanna participate. Not your opinion if money = product/service in business. If I pay full upfront, I expect things. If I pay full upon delivery, then I don’t have much room to ask what’s happening do I because they have taken nothing even if I’m willing to give it now. It makes a difference in a tangible way. And AGAIN, It could be done BETTER. You’re just beating a dead horse at this point by bitching about the negatives mate. I’m looking for ways to make it better because ultimately I feel like I as the consumer can benefit from it if it’s done right.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Having a preorder without a release date is... Pretty common. Especially in the video game market.


----------



## fob

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Having a preorder without a release date is... Pretty common. Especially in the video game market.


Yeah but with a lot of backlash. It’s been the demise of a few games and reputations. It’s not a shining example of a working pre order system.


----------



## skewkus13

Lol. I love this thread


----------



## Rev2010

One guy says he's "gonna be 87 before it's released" and one other guy (Fob) simply asks "what's the hold up" and this thread turns into piling on two people who are simply anxious for the release, one of which paid already. Geez, lighten up guys. They aren't really vehemently ranting, they're just anxious for it. I am too, I just haven't put the money down yet since I want to try the demo first. Let's not devolve this into a flame fest.


Rev.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Rev2010 said:


> One guy says he's "gonna be 87 before it's released" and one other guy (Fob) simply asks "what's the hold up" and this thread turns into piling on two people who are simply anxious for the release, one of which paid already. Geez, lighten up guys. They aren't really vehemently ranting, they're just anxious for it. I am too, I just haven't put the money down yet since I want to try the demo first. Let's not devolve this into a flame fest.
> 
> 
> Rev.


I mean, I preordered it as well, but I'm not foaming at the mouth like skewkus. I honestly just preordered because if it can make arnold sound half decent, then it must be a REALLLY good plugin.


----------



## skewkus13

KnightBrolaire said:


> I mean, I preordered it as well, but I'm not foaming at the mouth like skewkus. I honestly just preordered because if it can make arnold sound half decent, then it must be a REALLLY good plugin.


Foaming at the mouth !? Ha ha ha geeze Louise. A bloke can't have a bloody joke on a online public forum anymore eh. Lollzzzzzz


----------



## fob

skewkus13 said:


> Foaming at the mouth !? Ha ha ha geeze Louise. A bloke can't have a bloody joke on a online public forum anymore eh. Lollzzzzzz


U WOT M8?!


----------



## skewkus13

Ha ha ha ha . 


fob said:


> U WOT M8?!


----------



## Vyn

fob said:


> U WOT M8?!



U FOOKING WOT M8?! U FOOKING WOT?! U CUM NEAR ME AN ILL NOCK UR FOOKING TEETH CLEAN OUT!

Gotta love a little bit of Chav in the afternoon


----------



## skewkus13

Vyn said:


> U FOOKING WOT M8?! U FOOKING WOT?! U CUM NEAR ME AN ILL NOCK UR FOOKING TEETH CLEAN
> 
> Gotta love a little bit of Chav in the afternoon



Nah mate, its bogan


----------



## Vyn

skewkus13 said:


> Nah mate, its bogan



When I think bogan, I think Australian bogan which is replace "WOT" with "WAT" and "FOOKING" with "FARKING"


----------



## skewkus13

Vyn said:


> When I think bogan, I think Australian bogan which is replace "WOT" with "WAT" and "FOOKING" with "FARKING"


Can confirm


----------



## Snarpaasi

Fortin preordered!


----------



## Beheroth

fob said:


> U WOT M8?!









at this point i'm just in for the memes tbh


----------



## Shoeless_jose

Beheroth said:


> at this point i'm just in for the memes tbh




boy messing with Geralt gonna be dead


----------



## LeviathanKiller

I haven't been that impressed so far and this video continues that trend


----------



## Vyn

LeviathanKiller said:


> I haven't been that impressed so far and this video continues that trend




That being said, it must be somewhat decent if Glenn didn't rip it to shreds. He's not afraid to literally destroy a product.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

This demo seems better to me


----------



## ECGuitars

LeviathanKiller said:


> I haven't been that impressed so far and this video continues that trend




It's also worth noting, that glen can't dial a tone to save his life along with that arnold guy


----------



## vertibration

Go to the middle of Glens video and look at his settings lol. Jesus who the hell sets an amp up like that with those settings? To each his own, but I would never, ever judge this plugin from that video. I actually liked the systematic productions, Northlane, and Ola video the best, as they all sound similar to what I would normally go for in tone.


----------



## fob

LeviathanKiller said:


> I haven't been that impressed so far and this video continues that trend



Yeah... anyone else try to dial a nice clean tone in by maxing out the mids and bass and playing on the bridge? I'm sorry but if I was going off of this alone, I would completely avoid this plugin. How can the plugin be played for a week, and then there's only have 3 settings to show that sounded pretty much like ass IMO? I mean the hiss from the isolated guitar was terrible in the background. 

These kinda demos have been awkward because if the plugin actually kicks ass for most people, this shows that some of these people, with all due respect to their skills and knowledge in other areas, can't dial an amp sim tone for shit, while others can. Which is fine... but don't do reviews and demos of stuff you don't really know how to use that well. Just stick to real amps if that's your thing or a TON of other things out there. Just cause every other metal head is demoing it doesn't mean you have to if you're not that good at those types demos. 

Who would ever play a tone with high gain with a shit ton of hiss and ringing (not from the player or technique) and think it sounds good? Not me, personally. Maybe I'm not the market for some people's demos either and I just don't hear what their hearing which is possible I suppose.


----------



## Flappydoodle

All of this is why Neural need to put out a DEMO so that we can try it ourselves. 

I understand what Glenn says about the high end. I hear that metallic ‘krang’ sound in the top end too. A lot of the Djent guys love it, but to me it sounds like shit.


----------



## Flappydoodle

Vyn said:


> That being said, it must be somewhat decent if Glenn didn't rip it to shreds. He's not afraid to literally destroy a product.



Not true. He only does that for ‘fearless gear review’ videos. 

In this case, Fortin have given him the plugin early, for free, in exchange for this review. He’s never torn a product apart under those circumstances. And the ‘fearless’ reviews are usually weak targets anyway.. line6 spider etc.


----------



## Vyn

Flappydoodle said:


> Not true. He only does that for ‘fearless gear review’ videos.
> 
> In this case, Fortin have given him the plugin early, for free, in exchange for this review. He’s never torn a product apart under those circumstances. And the ‘fearless’ reviews are usually weak targets anyway.. line6 spider etc.



That didn't even cross my mind, will have to re-think that one.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

glenn's demo was easily the worst one yet. Shit even arnold got better tones than glenn.


----------



## Flappydoodle

KnightBrolaire said:


> glenn's demo was easily the worst one yet. Shit even arnold got better tones than glenn.



Very clear that he didn't like it.

He said, "it is... interesting"

"Never heard something with the top end quite like this"

Followed by that "yeeeeah" after the sound clips

Finally got a chance to watch it properly on monitors and headphones. Sounds like total, utter shit. But Glenn was also using his own impulses, and not the built-in cabs, so who knows. 

His settings look kinda crazy - bass to 10, treble at 3, presence at 0. But I've no idea whether that's normal for a Fortin amp or not (i.e. that type of extreme setting would be fine on a Mesa Mark 5). And Ola and other demos also have that kinda ear-splitting janky high end, which I suppose Glenn hates.

Again, we need a downloadable demo that we can try for ourselves. Enough of this pre-sale, pre-order nonsense for a digital product. The hype is dying now and not all of the reviews are glowing.


----------



## A-Branger

Flappydoodle said:


> Again, we need a downloadable demo that we can try for ourselves. Enough of this pre-sale, pre-order nonsense for a digital product. The hype is dying now and not all of the reviews are glowing.


yup^

if you are gonna give the product to a bunch of youtubers (the new magazine add promo page) then have the product ready to buy.

"oh that demo sounds cool, let me get it....... oh its not available yet... ok I could wait...... *week passes*.... the plugin what now again?"


also, if its a digital product... then why a "pre-order"??? why not just "click here to buy/download"??


----------



## prlgmnr

Flappydoodle said:


> His settings look kinda crazy - bass to 10, treble at 3, presence at 0. But I've no idea whether that's normal for a Fortin amp or not (i.e. that type of extreme setting would be fine on a Mesa Mark 5).



You've run a MKV with the bass at max? Good lord captain, she cannae hold it.


----------



## Flappydoodle

prlgmnr said:


> You've run a MKV with the bass at max? Good lord captain, she cannae hold it.



Hahahaha, dear god no. But I mean that type of extreme setting is ok on some amps. For a Mk5:25, having bass at 2, treble at 10 actually sounds pretty fucking brutal (obviously combined with the 5 band EQ)

Point being, I won't judge Glenn by his settings - only by the sound (which was shit)


----------



## Rev2010

Glenn's video is the only one that kinda annoyed me. Firstly, I went into the video immediately thinking, "OK let's see him make it sound like shit". I've watched a number of his videos and personally think most things he tries he can't dial in good. Anyhow, what miffed me the most was he only used his IR. I mean come on, an IR is a big portion of the sound. I would've preferred to hear the internal cabs/mics. And yeah, I saw his Amp settings and couldn't help but wonder if he dialed it in like that to intentionally make it sound bad. Who uses such settings? 


Rev.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Flappydoodle said:


> Very clear that he didn't like it.
> 
> He said, "it is... interesting"
> 
> "Never heard something with the top end quite like this"
> 
> Followed by that "yeeeeah" after the sound clips
> 
> Finally got a chance to watch it properly on monitors and headphones. Sounds like total, utter shit. But Glenn was also using his own impulses, and not the built-in cabs, so who knows.
> 
> His settings look kinda crazy - bass to 10, treble at 3, presence at 0. But I've no idea whether that's normal for a Fortin amp or not (i.e. that type of extreme setting would be fine on a Mesa Mark 5). And Ola and other demos also have that kinda ear-splitting janky high end, which I suppose Glenn hates.
> 
> Again, we need a downloadable demo that we can try for ourselves. Enough of this pre-sale, pre-order nonsense for a digital product. The hype is dying now and not all of the reviews are glowing.


the other vid that leviathan posted shows off what the vst sounded like with default settings/cab. I honestly think it's a mix of him being unable to dial in a good unmixed sound, and that he was trying to make it sound like shit intentionally. his revv gen 100p demo wasn't that good compared to all the others.
i know what you mean about the mesa mark. i run my mk3 with treble at 8 and mids/bass at like 1(pre eq) with the deep v post eq. sounds crushing, but i've yet to find an amp that benefits from maxed mids and bass like he was running.


----------



## Ola Englund




----------



## Kaura

Pre-ordered. I don't even know why. I'll probably just use it once and go back to using Guitar Rig 5.


----------



## Steinmetzify

Flappydoodle said:


> Again, we need a downloadable demo that we can try for ourselves.



This. I don’t care whose name is on it, unless I can try before I buy I won’t buy. 

Especially after these vid reviews.


----------



## Metropolis

I wondered how it's so damn bassy piece of shit in Glenn's demo, but post in previous page clarified it to me. When he really bothers learn how to dial in amp modeling to get a decent tone?



Kaura said:


> Guitar Rig 5.


----------



## Steinmetzify

Just got an email; it’s out for the preorder guys. Can buy now if you want to. 

Trial version available on Saturday, that’s when it’s officially released.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

sounds good to me


----------



## LeviathanKiller

I'm probably just paranoid, but it seems like every review says "I would use this on a release album" in so many words. Maybe some of them have watched other's reviews and the phrase has contagiously spread. Idk

That last video by SickTones Studios does sound pretty dang good though I'll admit.


----------



## vertibration

Metropolis said:


> I wondered how it's so damn bassy piece of shit in Glenn's demo, but post in previous page clarified it to me. When he really bothers learn how to dial in amp modeling to get a decent tone?



Glenns settings had his bass knob maxed, mids maxed, and treble at 0. Who the hell plays like that?


----------



## Steinmetzify

I’ll grab the demo on Saturday and chuck it on a mid to see what’s up; hopefully the guys that preordered can throw up some clips and honest reviews.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

steinmetzify said:


> I’ll grab the demo on Saturday and chuck it on a mid to see what’s up; hopefully the guys that preordered can throw up some clips and honest reviews.


I'll definitely throw up some clips and a review once I spend some time playing around with it. I'm curious how it'll work for less djenty toanz.


----------



## technomancer

Watching the hype and debate over a plugin that models a Jose modded Marshall 2204 is somewhat hilarious... keep it up guys. Fortin's marketing is indeed brilliant.


----------



## Steinmetzify

KnightBrolaire said:


> I'll definitely throw up some clips and a review once I spend some time playing around with it. I'm curious how it'll work for less djenty toanz.



Baritone thrash please kthanxbai


----------



## Metropolis

vertibration said:


> Glenns settings had his bass knob maxed, mids maxed, and treble at 0. Who the hell plays like that?



Hopefully no one, except maybe if you want to achieve sludgy and messy doom tone.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

Some of those recent clips sound awful. 



LeviathanKiller said:


> I'm probably just paranoid, but it seems like every review says "I would use this on a release album" in so many words. Maybe some of them have watched other's reviews and the phrase has contagiously spread. Idk



Its common when reviewing anything that certain phrases stick, people are always going to watch other reviews to get an idea what to say. A lot of these guys don't usually review. At least that saying means something, people turning each EQ knob from 5 - 10 - 0 - 5 in 1.3 seconds is the worst thing about gear reviews to catch on.


----------



## mikah912

technomancer said:


> Watching the hype and debate over a plugin that models a Jose modded Marshall 2204 is somewhat hilarious... keep it up guys. Fortin's marketing is indeed brilliant.



Yeah, I'm thinking I'll just boot up my Thermionik JMP "Jose Mod" VST and play with that with a boost in front.


----------



## Kaura

So is this now up for download for us pre-orderers? At least I got an email with the download link but I wonder if there's is some sort of time-lock on it. I'm away from my recording pc tonight so I couldn't use it anyway.


----------



## makecamera

Kaura said:


> So is this now up for download for us pre-orderers? At least I got an email with the download link but I wonder if there's is some sort of time-lock on it. I'm away from my recording pc tonight so I couldn't use it anyway.



Yep. Downloaded it and playing with it now.


----------



## Kaura

makecamera said:


> Yep. Downloaded it and playing with it now.



Nice! Can't wait to test it tomorrow. Hopefully it doesn't ruin my Friday like another plugin did couple of weeks back.


----------



## Rev2010

Wonder how long it will be before there's a demo.


----------



## fob

KnightBrolaire said:


> the other vid that leviathan posted shows off what the vst sounded like with default settings/cab. I honestly think it's a mix of him being unable to dial in a good unmixed sound, and that he was trying to make it sound like shit intentionally. his revv gen 100p demo wasn't that good compared to all the others.
> i know what you mean about the mesa mark. i run my mk3 with treble at 8 and mids/bass at like 1(pre eq) with the deep v post eq. sounds crushing, but i've yet to find an amp that benefits from maxed mids and bass like he was running.


It’s almost like he was trying to take away some of the treble and add more bass to fatten up the clean tone.

If only there was a pick up position on the guitar that did that. That would be cool.


----------



## oracles

Metropolis said:


> Hopefully no one, except maybe if you want to achieve sludgy and messy doom tone.



As an avid doom guy, even I'm cringing at those settings.


----------



## vertibration

Heard from a source they had over 1000 preorders, and they are rolling them out so anyone that hasnt gotten the download, will get it today at some point. On a side not, that is over $100,000 in preorders right there. Not too shaby


----------



## skewkus13

Just trying it out now. Dat note definition tho......!!!!!!. Ibanez RG 550 Genesis E standard - scarlett 2i4 - 2014 i5 macbook pro. Feels better than any preset I have tried from BiasFX.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

https://app.box.com/s/olwj2mlihg27fw3zoozadtjp944vl9q6
The clean clip is default eq with master vol rolled down and gain1/2 rolled down to 4 or so (everything else at noon)
The high gain clip is everything at noon starting (no grind) and then grind engaged (also set at noon) at the end of the clip
I used my prs mushok with the mcp afwayu in the bridge for both clips.
I'll give my opinion when I've played around with it more


----------



## Kyle Jordan

KnightBrolaire said:


> https://app.box.com/s/olwj2mlihg27fw3zoozadtjp944vl9q6
> The clean clip is default eq with master vol rolled down and gain1/2 rolled down to 4 or so (everything else at noon)
> The high gain clip is everything at noon starting (no grind) and then grind engaged (also set at noon) at the end of the clip
> I used my prs mushok with the mcp afwayu in the bridge for both clips.
> I'll give my opinion when I've played around with it more



Good stuff.

I liked the high gain part without the Grind FAR more than the one with. Thanks for sharing. Clean was surprisingly good too.


----------



## Rev2010

KnightBrolaire said:


> https://app.box.com/s/olwj2mlihg27fw3zoozadtjp944vl9q6



I think that sounds excellent. I can imagine double/quad tracks guitars in my head and it sounding phenomenal. Thanks for sharing!


Rev.


----------



## skewkus13

Kyle Jordan said:


> Good stuff.
> 
> I liked the high gain part without the Grind FAR more than the one with. Thanks for sharing. Clean was surprisingly good too.


Added a free reverb plugin to my clean setting. Sounds really good.


----------



## fob

Might be a dumb question but is there a noise gate of some sort built into this? I played it for a second but had to go. I couldn’t find one.


----------



## axxessdenied

nope, use the one in your daw or something like fabfilter pro-g.

this vst sounds good holy cow


----------



## Rev2010

Just purchased this on their site and like a dumbass only realized something when I went to the iLok webpage.... does the iLok require you maintain an internet connection each time you use the plugin?? This is extremely important as I keep my DAW offline at all times unless I need to simply activate a license. Wish I'd thought to ask first. Can someone confirm whether or not it works offline after activation? Thanks.


Rev.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Rev2010 said:


> Just purchased this on their site and like a dumbass only realized something when I went to the iLok webpage.... does the iLok require you maintain an internet connection each time you use the plugin?? This is extremely important as I keep my DAW offline at all times unless I need to simply activate a license. Wish I'd thought to ask first. Can someone confirm whether or not it works offline after activation? Thanks.
> 
> 
> Rev.


it's not online oriented afaik


----------



## Snarpaasi

Installed this morning and had to try quickly before work. It didn't come as a surprise that there's this really strong high-mid focus, which is why I replaced the stock IR with my go-to combination I've been using for 5 years or so. Short take on monuments: https://www.dropbox.com/s/t3iezvph6h0z62f/Fortintest1.mp3?dl=0


----------



## Lorcan Ward

fob said:


> Might be a dumb question but is there a noise gate of some sort built into this? I played it for a second but had to go. I couldn’t find one.



It would have been a perfect opportunity to model the Fortin noisegate. A good standalone guitar noisegate is desperately needed in the plug-in world. A couple of guys have said they are working on one but years later nobody has delivered anything.


----------



## Flappydoodle

KnightBrolaire said:


> https://app.box.com/s/olwj2mlihg27fw3zoozadtjp944vl9q6
> The clean clip is default eq with master vol rolled down and gain1/2 rolled down to 4 or so (everything else at noon)
> The high gain clip is everything at noon starting (no grind) and then grind engaged (also set at noon) at the end of the clip
> I used my prs mushok with the mcp afwayu in the bridge for both clips.
> I'll give my opinion when I've played around with it more



Yeah, that's that kinda "KRANG" sound in the high end which I hate. It sounds like there's a wah pedal engaged in the signal chain, or as if you're using a single coil pickup.

Jammed the plugin very briefly at a friend's place yesterday, and it sounded exactly like your clip. Very noisy too. I thought I probably just needed to dial it in better. I kinda understand how Glenn ended up putting the presence to 0 and bass to 10, haha.

Suppose it might sound good for really low tuned guitars, but it's seeming like this plugin is quite a niche sound?


----------



## Rev2010

Flappydoodle said:


> Yeah, that's that kinda "KRANG" sound in the high end which I hate.



Me too, not a fan of that sound. But I hear that sound in most clips where people are using a boost, and most commonly when they are using ceramic pickups. This is one reason I use alnico pickups and no boost. From the clips I've heard I like the sound of the Fortin better without the grind engaged or at least set fairly low.


Rev.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Flappydoodle said:


> Yeah, that's that kinda "KRANG" sound in the high end which I hate. It sounds like there's a wah pedal engaged in the signal chain, or as if you're using a single coil pickup.
> 
> Jammed the plugin very briefly at a friend's place yesterday, and it sounded exactly like your clip. Very noisy too. I thought I probably just needed to dial it in better. I kinda understand how Glenn ended up putting the presence to 0 and bass to 10, haha.
> 
> Suppose it might sound good for really low tuned guitars, but it's seeming like this plugin is quite a niche sound?


that was the default settings so I didn't even adjust the eq at all. I'll post up some clips later with different eq settings to see if I can mitigate the metallic sound. FWIW the metallic kerrang is even worse with the Grind engaged.


----------



## Kaura

First impressions after 30 or so minutes...

I started by trying it with my Fender Mustang with single-coils. Big disappointment. It sounded super noisy (I almost had to max out the threshold in the noise gate I used) and had that terrible metallic clang to it that you guys have been talking about. Even though I don't mind it myself to certain extent. 

So after that I tried it with my trusty old RG1527 and oh my... From the moment I hit the first chord I couldn't but smile the whole time I was playing. Almost straight out of the box, with just minimal tweaking it sounds awesome. Better than anything I've ever done with any other plugin I've tried. Even though it's just an amp sim like everything else. For the first time it felt like it was actually simulating the sound of an amp instead of just being a digital distortion generator.

Since everyone is talking about that one demo the angry Steve Harris looking mofo with the glasses did, I followed his settings and it didn't actually sound half bad, imo. The bass response is awesome. I could turn the bass knob all the way up just like the guy in the video and it still sounded completely usable to my ears. Which is impressive since I've always hated my RG1527 for sounding too muddy (mostly because of the god awful stock pickups). Also, the note definition or the way how even big chords doesn't sound like a mess is great.

Doesn't feel too versatile, in my opinion but it does the modern (djenty) metal rhythm tone, and it does it well.

Ps. Take my words with a grain of salt. After all, I'm the guy who has been using GR5 almost exclusively for the past 5 years.  So, if you're coming from a background using stuff like Axe-Fx or whatever then this plugin might not seem so impressive to you as it is for me.


----------



## narad

Kaura said:


> Ps. Take my words with a grain of salt. After all, I'm the guy who has been using GR5 almost exclusively for the past 5 years.  So, if you're coming from a background using stuff like Axe-Fx or whatever then this plugin might not seem so impressive to you as it is for me.



GR5? Damn dude, I heard they were making a HellRaiser sequel where the Cenobites made a guy play through GR5 for an entire weekend.


----------



## Steinmetzify

Kaura said:


> First impressions after 30 or so minutes...
> 
> I started by trying it with my Fender Mustang with single-coils. Big disappointment. It sounded super noisy (I almost had to max out the threshold in the noise gate I used) and had that terrible metallic clang to it that you guys have been talking about. Even though I don't mind it myself to certain extent.
> 
> So after that I tried it with my trusty old RG1527 and oh my... From the moment I hit the first chord I couldn't but smile the whole time I was playing. Almost straight out of the box, with just minimal tweaking it sounds awesome. Better than anything I've ever done with any other plugin I've tried. Even though it's just an amp sim like everything else. For the first time it felt like it was actually simulating the sound of an amp instead of just being a digital distortion generator.
> 
> Since everyone is talking about that one demo the angry Steve Harris looking mofo with the glasses did, I followed his settings and it didn't actually sound half bad, imo. The bass response is awesome. I could turn the bass knob all the way up just like the guy in the video and it still sounded completely usable to my ears. Which is impressive since I've always hated my RG1527 for sounding too muddy (mostly because of the god awful stock pickups). Also, the note definition or the way how even big chords doesn't sound like a mess is great.
> 
> Doesn't feel too versatile, in my opinion but it does the modern (djenty) metal rhythm tone, and it does it well.
> 
> Ps. Take my words with a grain of salt. After all, I'm the guy who has been using GR5 almost exclusively for the past 5 years.  So, if you're coming from a background using stuff like Axe-Fx or whatever then this plugin might not seem so impressive to you as it is for me.



Coming off of a Kemper; the words ‘modern djenty metal rhythm tone’ hit me. I’m not a djent guy, I don’t play 7s, I’m a sludge/doom guy that likes to chug 6 strings in drop B. Will this work or you think it’s gonna be too harsh/modern sounding for me?


----------



## fob

steinmetzify said:


> Coming off of a Kemper; the words ‘modern djenty metal rhythm tone’ hit me. I’m not a djent guy, I don’t play 7s, I’m a sludge/doom guy that likes to chug 6 strings in drop B. Will this work or you think it’s gonna be too harsh/modern sounding for me?


IMO without the GRIND on, it’s more open and flubby so less of that “djent” sound, plus changing the IR can make a world of a difference. Never underestimate a different IR and some EQ.


----------



## Kaura

steinmetzify said:


> Coming off of a Kemper; the words ‘modern djenty metal rhythm tone’ hit me. I’m not a djent guy, I don’t play 7s, I’m a sludge/doom guy that likes to chug 6 strings in drop B. Will this work or you think it’s gonna be too harsh/modern sounding for me?



I need more time to figure that out but I guess it's possible. It doesn't really sound that harsh as long as you don't enable the Grind-pedal which is pretty appropriately named as it pretty much just cuts the low end and boosts the high mid range.


----------



## skewkus13

Kaura said:


> First impressions after 30 or so minutes...
> 
> I started by trying it with my Fender Mustang with single-coils. Big disappointment. It sounded super noisy (I almost had to max out the threshold in the noise gate I used) and had that terrible metallic clang to it that you guys have been talking about. Even though I don't mind it myself to certain extent.
> 
> So after that I tried it with my trusty old RG1527 and oh my... From the moment I hit the first chord I couldn't but smile the whole time I was playing. Almost straight out of the box, with just minimal tweaking it sounds awesome. Better than anything I've ever done with any other plugin I've tried. Even though it's just an amp sim like everything else. For the first time it felt like it was actually simulating the sound of an amp instead of just being a digital distortion generator.
> 
> Since everyone is talking about that one demo the angry Steve Harris looking mofo with the glasses did, I followed his settings and it didn't actually sound half bad, imo. The bass response is awesome. I could turn the bass knob all the way up just like the guy in the video and it still sounded completely usable to my ears. Which is impressive since I've always hated my RG1527 for sounding too muddy (mostly because of the god awful stock pickups). Also, the note definition or the way how even big chords doesn't sound like a mess is great.
> 
> Doesn't feel too versatile, in my opinion but it does the modern (djenty) metal rhythm tone, and it does it well.
> 
> Ps. Take my words with a grain of salt. After all, I'm the guy who has been using GR5 almost exclusively for the past 5 years.  So, if you're coming from a background using stuff like Axe-Fx or whatever then this plugin might not seem so impressive to you as it is for me.



My biggest regret is selling my RG1527 years ago when I was younger. It was my first really nice guitar. Iv tried to even track it down. No luck. 

Anyways. For those interested. Fortin just posted saying a demo version will be available on launch.


----------



## Xaios

skewkus13 said:


> My biggest regret is selling my RG1527 years ago when I was younger. It was my first really nice guitar. Iv tried to even track it down. No luck.
> 
> Anyways. For those interested. Fortin just posted saying a demo version will be available on launch.


Well then, glad I still have my RG1527.


----------



## makecamera

Quick clip. I tried to dial in a tone that doesn't have the "kerrang" / single coil tone (Grind turned off) and something more suited to 6-string / standard tuning. I also compared it with the best patch I could find for BiasFX (completely different rig setup) (Bias FX starts at 11 seconds in).

For the Nameless plugin, I used the built-in cab simulation.

https://soundcloud.com/user-856062320/nameless-vs-biasfx


----------



## Rev2010

makecamera said:


> https://soundcloud.com/user-856062320/nameless-vs-biasfx



Definitely preferred the first half of the clip. The second half didn't "oomph" with the palm muting, sounded dull and compressed. More noticeably the growl of the distortion sounded like thinner fine tooth comb waves in the second part. The Fortin clip had more of a real amp "growl". I've found this with many plugins, that tight thin distortion sound. Like Amplitube, it just sounds thinner, more like an 80's distortion pedal going into the clean channel of an amp.

So far the best plugin I've been using is Helix Native, and while I love it, often in the headphones I'm still not yet fully satisfied, though it sounds awesome playing live through my studio monitors. I bought the Fortin the other night, supposed to be available for download by tomorrow morning Can't wait to try it!


Rev.


----------



## Krucifixtion

This plugin is incredible. I haven't ever used a plugin that felt this natural. In no time I had a better rhythm tone than most of the stuff I have tried to come up with on the Axe-FX II in years. I know this is the honeymoon phase, but it's worth the money at that price. Yeah it's not going to be as versatile as a full modeler or other stuff, but you can still tweak it pretty well to get some different tones if you also add in some FX too. The feel and sound is super real for something purely digital. Very impressed. Just running my Explorer with Fluence Moderns is brutal as shit.


----------



## Crundles

Heads up - trial version is available, I'm downloading it now

https://store.neuraldsp.com/collections/frontpage/products/fortin-nameless-suite-trial


----------



## Kyle Jordan

Well, I was about to go to sleep, but I'm nabbing it now too and going to mess with it a bit.


----------



## Metropolis

They weren't bullshitting in the reviews, feels very amp-like. Tone has kind of metallic clang in it, and I'm not sure if I like that too much. Duncan Solar pickups are making it even more like that.


----------



## Krucifixtion

Metropolis said:


> They weren't bullshitting in the reviews, feels very amp-like. Tone has kind of metallic clang in it, and I'm not sure if I like that too much. Duncan Solar pickups are making it even more like that.



I was able to get an odd almost HM-2 tone out of it if I had Gain 1 maxed. Try messing with the Gain settings and keep the treble and presence backed off.


----------



## fob

Krucifixtion said:


> I was able to get an odd almost HM-2 tone out of it if I had Gain 1 maxed. Try messing with the Gain settings and keep the treble and presence backed off.


Gain 1 seems more bass heavy and gain 2 seems more treble heavy. Depending on which one you have more of, you can get a pretty wild range of sounds only with that. 

Loving this thing so far. Being a guitar player has never been better.


----------



## Metropolis

Krucifixtion said:


> I was able to get an odd almost HM-2 tone out of it if I had Gain 1 maxed. Try messing with the Gain settings and keep the treble and presence backed off.



Backing off gain 1 and presence helped.

Oh yes, I found video of Soreption's guitarist trying it out.


----------



## makecamera

Just got an email. They added a gate in a new version of the plugin.


----------



## fob

makecamera said:


> Just got an email. They added a gate in a new version of the plugin.


Was about to say this!!! FUCK yeah. That’s how you do customer service.


----------



## Snarpaasi

I got better results by disabling grind but using a TS simulation instead. Low input and gain 1 maxed out, bass and presence to 0. Gain 2 seems to have some of those harsh high frequencies?


----------



## Krucifixtion

makecamera said:


> Just got an email. They added a gate in a new version of the plugin.



That's awesome, because the whole time I was like "man this thing needs a Zuul lol"


----------



## Kaura

Haha, just before going to bed last night I was thinking that it would be really nice for them to release an update sometime in the future and add a gate to it. Didn't see it coming this soon.

So it's nice to have the gate but I'm probably still going to stick to using the gate in GR5 since I can adjust the attack on it and I'm just used to having that instant attack. And since it's actually a noise supressor it also gets rid of the unwanted hiss while playing so I don't have to crank it as much as the FNS's own gate.


----------



## Rev2010

So, just been playing with it the past hour or so. My opinion... I love it! Really sounds great straight away with minimal tweaking. For those of us that were talking about the metallic twang or "karang" sound, I dialed it out easily. I turned off the Grind pedal which helps the most, but I also found tweaking the two gain knobs helped a lot. I wound up cranking both of them up around to around 9 o'clock. yes that's high but it sounds thick and fat without that twangy metallic sound. Really nice tone. I went with an SM57 and an E906 just off center.

Couple of observations though: I'm looking forward to updates as it still needs work. I had some stuck 100% ASIO spiking when changing between the presets I made. Had to unload the one instance and reload to resolve it. Also, the plugin is indeed very very noisy. Noisier than any other amp sim I own. I really hope they can reduce the inherent noise. The gate knob is nice, hopefully they'll build up the noise gate feature a bit more than just a single knob. I used two gate plugins, one before and one after the plugin for a nice tight quiet sound.

Anyhow, I'd say it lives up the the hype. I spent way way more time trying to make my Helix Native patch sound good and comparing them the Fortin Nameless beats the sound and I spent less than 30 minutes tweaking the sound - most of that time simply listening to the differences in gain and trying the different mics.

*edit - oh yeah, and the note definition is definitely excellent. 


Rev.


----------



## Frostbite

I used the demo for all of 5 minutes and just went and bought it. Holy shit


----------



## Steinmetzify

Activated it on iLok, won’t run in Reaper. This is retarded. 

I HATE iLok crap.


----------



## Frostbite

steinmetzify said:


> Activated it on iLok, won’t run in Reaper. This is retarded.
> 
> I HATE iLok crap.


Have you tried re-scanning for plugins? I had this issue and the Clear cache/rescan under preferences ,plugins and then VST fixed it


----------



## Steinmetzify

Was my next step, didn’t restart my comp either after DLing. Give it a shot. 

Thanks mang


----------



## Frostbite

No worries. Hope it works


----------



## Steinmetzify

That didn’t work; kicked it and redownloaded it. 

It was telling me I’d already activated it; see what happens this time. 

Fair warning, this might be a bitchfest tonight. 

Plus beers.


----------



## Steinmetzify

Ok so is the demo not a full version? 

Does it look like a weird Reaper plugin for anyone running the demo?


----------



## Flappydoodle

Rev2010 said:


> So, just been playing with it the past hour or so. My opinion... I love it! Really sounds great straight away with minimal tweaking. For those of us that were talking about the metallic twang or "karang" sound, I dialed it out easily. I turned off the Grind pedal which helps the most, but I also found tweaking the two gain knobs helped a lot. I wound up cranking both of them up around to around 9 o'clock. yes that's high but it sounds thick and fat without that twangy metallic sound. Really nice tone. I went with an SM57 and an E906 just off center.
> 
> Couple of observations though: I'm looking forward to updates as it still needs work. I had some stuck 100% ASIO spiking when changing between the presets I made. Had to unload the one instance and reload to resolve it. Also, the plugin is indeed very very noisy. Noisier than any other amp sim I own. I really hope they can reduce the inherent noise. The gate knob is nice, hopefully they'll build up the noise gate feature a bit more than just a single knob. I used two gate plugins, one before and one after the plugin for a nice tight quiet sound.
> 
> Anyhow, I'd say it lives up the the hype. I spent way way more time trying to make my Helix Native patch sound good and comparing them the Fortin Nameless beats the sound and I spent less than 30 minutes tweaking the sound - most of that time simply listening to the differences in gain and trying the different mics.
> 
> *edit - oh yeah, and the note definition is definitely excellent.
> 
> 
> Rev.



Very helpful post, thank you.

You're right. Disabling the grind helps a LOT. Why on earth do people pay so much money for that pedal which makes your tone sound like shit? You can just plug in a wah and accomplish the same effect of removing all low end and boosting high mids. Maybe it's useful for 8 strings or something, but for regular tuning, it's horrible.

Moving the 57 off axis also helps a LOT, just like in real life.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

steinmetzify said:


> Activated it on iLok, won’t run in Reaper. This is retarded.
> 
> I HATE iLok crap.



Mine is running in Reaper just fine


----------



## LeviathanKiller

I like it pretty well. Don't think I'll buy it though. I'd rather have a physical device as a backup rig than something on my PC.

Here's my fiddling with it
https://www.dropbox.com/s/crf54d5cin4nf1r/20180908_201912_Fortin_Nameless_Suite_demo_001.wav?dl=0

and my settings (cab used was OwnHammer Heavy Hitters Mesa V30)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/smb9ao50fix8drf/20180908_202701_Window.png?dl=0


----------



## Steinmetzify

LeviathanKiller said:


> Mine is running in Reaper just fine



I like hate you and stuff

Lasse reamp:

https://soundcloud.com/steinmetzify/fortinnameless


----------



## LeviathanKiller

steinmetzify said:


> I like hate you and stuff
> 
> Lasse reamp:
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/steinmetzify/fortinnameless



Seems like almost everyone's clips have a lot of treble. Hopefully my clip wasn't too dark


----------



## Steinmetzify

LeviathanKiller said:


> Seems like almost everyone's clips have a lot of treble. Hopefully my clip wasn't too dark



Nothing wrong with your clip man, dug it. 

I’m having plugin issues, fuck all that treble


----------



## fob

https://m.soundcloud.com/fobtoonz/fortin-amp-sim-squire-tele

Quick lil demo. Just 1 track hard pan left and 1 hard right, with drums with some stuff to make them not boring but not actually mixed or anything. Guitars are the Fortin in the raw with just a extra gate.


----------



## Flappydoodle

steinmetzify said:


> I like hate you and stuff
> 
> Lasse reamp:
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/steinmetzify/fortinnameless



That is ear-splitting, omg

The gain is brutal sounding, but the treble/presence is WAY too much in my opinion



LeviathanKiller said:


> Seems like almost everyone's clips have a lot of treble. Hopefully my clip wasn't too dark



Yours was the best so far IMO. Might need a little more high end to cut through in a mix, but as a tone to jam with, yours sound great.


----------



## Steinmetzify

Flappydoodle said:


> That is ear-splitting, omg
> 
> The gain is brutal sounding, but the treble/presence is WAY too much.



My bad dude, like I said, I had plugin issues (ISSUES) and could only hit it with default settings lol


----------



## Adeamus

So I made a comparison video of the Fortin vs Guitar Rig 5 vs the built in stuff in Logic. I agree with what I've been seeing here about the presence being REALLY over the top on the Fortin. Dialing that back a bit took some doing. It is def better then the stock logic amps, and a slight improvement over Guitar Rig 5. If you don't own anything yet I'd say its totally worth your while, but if you've already got decent amp sims its not gonna blow your mind.


----------



## Beheroth

steinmetzify said:


> I like hate you and stuff
> 
> Lasse reamp:
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/steinmetzify/fortinnameless









now can you play transilvanian hunger pls ?




pretty pls


----------



## Flappydoodle

steinmetzify said:


> My bad dude, like I said, I had plugin issues (ISSUES) and could only hit it with default settings lol



Ah gotcha. Sorry, I misread what you wrote earlier. The default settings are super bright - the Grind pedal engaged, and dead centre SM57.. ouch!

Do you have the Lasse DIs? The link on his YouTube channel is dead. It's such a classic amp testing song, I'd love to run it through my own setups.


----------



## zarg

Tried out the Nameless Suite today. it took ages to install because of that iLok crap and it didn't want to activate or told me it was already activated but didn't work. But overall I'm very happy with how it sounds. Most other amp sims just have so many parameters and I get option paralysis quickly. With this it already sounds wicked good with everything on noon which to me is a sign of a good amp even in real life. No other amp sim has sounded acceptable to me that quickly before and I'm pretty sure I will buy it for my solo stuff or some recordings with my band.

its a bit more noisey than other sims, might be my interface though. Did a quick test, there's some more tweaking to be done but it sounds great already. No plugins, eqs or whatever on that one. Sounds pretty evil to me! https://soundcloud.com/user-14405527/fortin-nameless-suite-test


----------



## I play music

steinmetzify said:


> Activated it on iLok, won’t run in Reaper. This is retarded.
> 
> I HATE iLok crap.


I tend to use free software not because I can't afford paid stuff but because the licensing crap always annoys me taking way too much time


----------



## fob

t


zarg said:


> Tried out the Nameless Suite today. it took ages to install because of that iLok crap and it didn't want to activate or told me it was already activated but didn't work. But overall I'm very happy with how it sounds. Most other amp sims just have so many parameters and I get option paralysis quickly. With this it already sounds wicked good with everything on noon which to me is a sign of a good amp even in real life. No other amp sim has sounded acceptable to me that quickly before and I'm pretty sure I will buy it for my solo stuff or some recordings with my band.
> 
> its a bit more noisey than other sims, might be my interface though. Did a quick test, there's some more tweaking to be done but it sounds great already. No plugins, eqs or whatever on that one. Sounds pretty evil to me! https://soundcloud.com/user-14405527/fortin-nameless-suite-test


That sounds insane. lol


----------



## Kyle Jordan

LeviathanKiller said:


> I like it pretty well. Don't think I'll buy it though. I'd rather have a physical device as a backup rig than something on my PC.
> 
> Here's my fiddling with it
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/crf54d5cin4nf1r/20180908_201912_Fortin_Nameless_Suite_demo_001.wav?dl=0
> 
> and my settings (cab used was OwnHammer Heavy Hitters Mesa V30)
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/smb9ao50fix8drf/20180908_202701_Window.png?dl=0



Best demo I've heard. 

Enjoying the trial so far. I still end up using Wall Of Sound most of the time for cabs, but the internal cab section in Nameless is actually much better than I was anticipating. And yeah, the Grind stays off.


----------



## Frostbite

I ended up turning the presence all the way down and having the treble in the 2-4 range to get that high end shrillness gone. This amp just makes me want to play Gojira style riffs. It's super gross, metallic and angry. First time I bought a plugin that I liked the second I started using it.

I will say though, I did find my first issue. When trying to use the presets that I set, it freaks out and the audio becomes nothing but digital static. Have to close my DAW and re-open and and then manually set everything up. Hope they fix that soon


----------



## Rev2010

Frostbite said:


> I will say though, I did find my first issue. When trying to use the presets that I set, it freaks out and the audio becomes nothing but digital static. Have to close my DAW and re-open and and then manually set everything up. Hope they fix that soon



Same exact problem I encountered. After the first time I deleted the preset and created it again and it was fine after that, but yeah that needs addressing asap.


----------



## Ericjutsu

LeviathanKiller said:


> I like it pretty well. Don't think I'll buy it though. I'd rather have a physical device as a backup rig than something on my PC.
> 
> Here's my fiddling with it
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/crf54d5cin4nf1r/20180908_201912_Fortin_Nameless_Suite_demo_001.wav?dl=0
> 
> and my settings (cab used was OwnHammer Heavy Hitters Mesa V30)
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/smb9ao50fix8drf/20180908_202701_Window.png?dl=0


Sounds good. Which Mesa V30 IR specifically are you using?


----------



## Ericjutsu

I'm liking this plugin. The main issue I have with it is that it is noisy. Even with the noise gate I can't get rid of the hiss.


----------



## Flappydoodle

zarg said:


> Tried out the Nameless Suite today. it took ages to install because of that iLok crap and it didn't want to activate or told me it was already activated but didn't work. But overall I'm very happy with how it sounds. Most other amp sims just have so many parameters and I get option paralysis quickly. With this it already sounds wicked good with everything on noon which to me is a sign of a good amp even in real life. No other amp sim has sounded acceptable to me that quickly before and I'm pretty sure I will buy it for my solo stuff or some recordings with my band.
> 
> its a bit more noisey than other sims, might be my interface though. Did a quick test, there's some more tweaking to be done but it sounds great already. No plugins, eqs or whatever on that one. Sounds pretty evil to me! https://soundcloud.com/user-14405527/fortin-nameless-suite-test



Your demo sounds fucking brutal on the big chords and chugs. Individual notes still quite thing, which is something I've also found.

This is what I've ended up with after some tweaking. Using TSE 808 tube screamer instead of the Grind. Treble and presence way down. Using the 57 out towards the edge, and the 121 just off the centre, blended 6dB lower than the 57. ESP Horizon with Duncans, standard tuning. Some reverb added on the bus with Fabfilter Pro-R. Double tracked.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/nzfc6x4j414cdnd/Fortin Nameless.m4a?dl=0


----------



## Steinmetzify

Flappydoodle said:


> Ah gotcha. Sorry, I misread what you wrote earlier. The default settings are super bright - the Grind pedal engaged, and dead centre SM57.. ouch!
> 
> Do you have the Lasse DIs? The link on his YouTube channel is dead. It's such a classic amp testing song, I'd love to run it through my own setups.



Yeah man, flip me an email to dump it to and I’ll get it to you.


----------



## Frostbite

Did a few demos. One is a riff I had from about a month ago just "re-amped" with the Fortin and the Precision drive in TFMM solo'd in front of the Fortin

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1kVSkvuv7OjkMkLN5_17W4JlUA5awaJTg

And this one is a test I just did. It's just a single track, played pretty poorly and with slightly dead strings but it stills sounds absolutely beefy

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1YvZrr2Nt8yoBmt4kR3QGXR44CIgmCjyF


----------



## ExileMetal

Anyone else unable to register in iLok? Says no redemptions available on my license.


----------



## Steinmetzify

ExileMetal said:


> Anyone else unable to register in iLok? Says no redemptions available on my license.



Yeah, had the same issue. Don’t even know what I did but it ended up working; however it looked like a Reaper plugin, all generic and just sliders etc...


----------



## makecamera

steinmetzify said:


> Yeah, had the same issue. Don’t even know what I did but it ended up working; however it looked like a Reaper plugin, all generic and just sliders etc...



IIRC, the generic sliders display is just a result of pressing the UI button (or something similar) in the top right-hand corner of the plugin window.

FWIW, I had no issues on Mac with Reaper.


----------



## Steinmetzify

makecamera said:


> IIRC, the generic sliders display is just a result of pressing the UI button (or something similar) in the top right-hand corner of the plugin window.
> 
> FWIW, I had no issues on Mac with Reaper.



Interesting; I had to do it that way because it didn’t show up with any other visual besides that. The whole thing was just a blank tiny window...


----------



## narad

Look at all you shills, shilling out. How dare you post your shill demos here!


----------



## Steinmetzify

Shillers gonna shill broheem


----------



## Frostbite

Gonna have to change my motto to "Fortin Shill"


----------



## LeviathanKiller

Ericjutsu said:


> Sounds good. Which Mesa V30 IR specifically are you using?



From the "A1 Picks" folder, the "OH 412 MES V30 PROG-05"


----------



## Bentaycanada

Got to try this out briefly this afternoon. It's very cool. It sounds just as good as my Mercuriall VST's, but I wouldn't say any better.
The Treble / Presence are shrill as sh*t, but a bit of tuning the amp sounded big!

I can say as an ex-Grind user, and current 33 owner, the VST Grind is dead on. It does exactly what the real pedal does, 100%. That aspect is awesome.

I'll admit the demo didn't make me want to instantly shell out $150 (CDN) for the full version, but I'm sure once the demo has ended I'll get that itch soon enough.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

narad said:


> Look at all you shills, shilling out. How dare you post your shill demos here!


Oh sweet, we're getting paid to demo things now?


----------



## LeviathanKiller

I think the shrill high-end is very tamable with third party IRs


----------



## KnightBrolaire

made a clip in standard with ownhammer 4x12 DZL/Mesa blend cab IR. used my dc600 with a holy diver in the bridge. It was still pretty bright even with the presence basically down to 2 and the treble at like 3.5. No grind used
download for best quality:
https://app.box.com/s/jckuhv0qeq9ketrqwh0c6ax2e8addouk
settings are in the pic:





So far I really like this plugin. It's obviously not going to replace my kemper or mk3, but it does the hot rodded marshall vibe exceedingly well imo. I think it's a great plugin but not 100$ great.


----------



## Ericjutsu

LeviathanKiller said:


> From the "A1 Picks" folder, the "OH 412 MES V30 PROG-05"


I like the OH1-05


----------



## narad

LeviathanKiller said:


> I think the shrill high-end is very tamable with third party IRs



If only we could do something about the _high-end_ _shill_. 

Okay, okay, last one.


----------



## axxessdenied

Dunno it's not that bright if you don't want it to be. https://soundcloud.com/noiseimplant/not-that-bright/s-OIsPY 
That's using the stock ir that comes with it.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

I had a quick go of the demo there on some DIs. Turned off the Grind straight away, it adds and pushes a lot of frequencies I don't like and explains a lot of the clips that were too bright or clanky. Good at low settings but I think people are cranking it too high. I replaced it with TSE 808 and dialled in a tone better than the original I had on my track in a minute. This is going to be a great amp sim for quickly laying down guitar. 

Its a little thin sounding at stock settings but the all the controls are very responsive. I find on a lot of Amp sims most do very little but its very noticeable going 5 to 6 on the Fortin, the way it should be in real life. The Cab section is great. Very good Impulse Responses and they blend together very well to thicken up the sound.


----------



## Steinmetzify

someone profiled it for the Kemper lol.....search for 'Neural DSP Fortin3'


----------



## fob

steinmetzify said:


> someone profiled it for the Kemper lol.....search for 'Neural DSP Fortin3'


When you have a $2000 machine to copy a $100 plugin lol


----------



## LeviathanKiller

Hey, I'll tone match it with the Axe-Fx II XL+ and the Axe-Fx III later


----------



## KnightBrolaire

steinmetzify said:


> someone profiled it for the Kemper lol.....search for 'Neural DSP Fortin3'


lmao we have reached the pinnacle of absurdity, especially considering how many good hot rodded marshall profiles are out there (pete turley's jvm410 profiles are the tits).


----------



## mikah912

KnightBrolaire said:


> lmao we have reached the pinnacle of absurdity, especially considering how many good hot rodded marshall profiles are out there (pete turley's jvm410 profiles are the tits).



Funny enough....aren't Pete's JVM410 profiles from a *Fortin-modded* JVM?


----------



## KnightBrolaire

mikah912 said:


> Funny enough....aren't Pete's JVM410 profiles from a *Fortin-modded* JVM?


yup, but it's just based on a jose mod afaik, it's not a proprietary mod that fortin does.


----------



## Bentaycanada

Been having lots of fun with the demo version today. I think I'm fairly convinced to purchase the full version now. Great heavy tone!

I recorded this super quick with the Grind engaged and the stock IR. 

https://soundcloud.com/carrion-king/fortin-nameless/s-zOJxC


----------



## fob

Bentaycanada said:


> Been having lots of fun with the demo version today. I think I'm fairly convinced to purchase the full version now. Great heavy tone!
> 
> I recorded this super quick with the Grind engaged and the stock IR.
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/carrion-king/fortin-nameless/s-zOJxC


Sounds fucking pissed.

I was wondering if we should have a thread where we have consolidated and categorized presets for diff amp sims? I’d love to try out some of what you are all doing with your settings.


----------



## Rev2010

fob said:


> When you have a $2000 machine to copy a $100 plugin lol



Lmfao! So true


----------



## Rev2010

Was playing with it more today. Still loving it but compared it to a number of other amp sims I have and noticed a few more things. It uses more CPU than my other amp sims even in normal oversampling mode. Compared to Helix Native loaded up with two different amp models going into one Ownhammer IR cab the Fortin still uses more CPU. They need to streamline their code. And although I mentioned it already I'll do so again...the inherent noise... they really need to improve it. No other amp sim I've tried is this noisy. I'm using a gate in front and after it.

Anyhoo, made a brief recording and using the Fortin as a reference dialed in my Helix main patch even better. Got it close enough now I'm actually going back and forth wondering if I should stick with Helix Native for the lower noise/CPU. More testing to try but hopefully they'll update the plugin with additional improvements as time goes


Rev.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

Ya know, I listen to something like this and then I realize for like $130 more, you can do better.
The Mooer stuff is even cheaper (under $100 for quite a few mini preamps) and they hold up really well for a lot of people who use them.


----------



## fob

LeviathanKiller said:


> Ya know, I listen to something like this and then I realize for like $130 more, you can do better.
> The Mooer stuff is even cheaper (under $100 for quite a few mini preamps) and they hold up really well for a lot of people who use them.



It’s been out for a short time though and already updated with a fast response with a gate. I think if they, and others releasing impressive amp plugins, continue to update these with the feedback people are giving (I’m hoping for some under the hood fixes maybe but I really have no clue how that works, except it happens with hardware units when they’re updated), then in a few months it’ll be more than worth what you paid for initially. It’s proven in the gaming industry that if you do that, you will have the support of the community. I don’t see why it can’t have the benefits of that platform here.


----------



## FourT6and2

technomancer said:


> Watching the hype and debate over a plugin that models a Jose modded Marshall 2204 is somewhat hilarious... keep it up guys. Fortin's marketing is indeed brilliant.



If only people knew lol


----------



## axxessdenied

They are already working on improving the noise floor of the Fortin VST, btw. 

The only thing that is noisy in it is using the grind. Try it with a different amp and irs and its exactly the same. the amp itself is no more noisier than other high gain amp vsts.


----------



## Andrew Lloyd Webber

fob said:


> When you have a $2000 machine to copy a $100 plugin



Another potential site banner.


----------



## Rev2010

axxessdenied said:


> The only thing that is noisy in it is using the grind. Try it with a different amp and irs and its exactly the same. the amp itself is no more noisier than other high gain amp vsts.



I have the Grind off and it's still noisier than any of my other amp sims. I compared them direct A/B/C/D etc and the Fortin is still the noisiest.


Rev.


----------



## fob

Rev2010 said:


> I have the Grind off and it's still noisier than any of my other amp sims. I compared them direct A/B/C/D etc and the Fortin is still the noisiest.
> 
> 
> Rev.


Do you get a really hard to tame .2ms or something hiss after, even with a hella tight get on and after?? I can tame it by choking the life out of it but without it it’s like a “breath” faith hiss that happens after with this amp. It doesn’t happen with others when I compared at high gains and same dB.


----------



## fob

dupes


----------



## Rev2010

fob said:


> Do you get a really hard to tame .2ms or something hiss after



Yes!! Even with a tight gate there's still a very slight breath. I know exactly what you're referring to. I don't have that either with other amp sims.


Rev.


----------



## fob

Rev2010 said:


> Yes!! Even with a tight gate there's still a very slight breath. I know exactly what you're referring to. I don't have that either with other amp sims.
> 
> 
> Rev.


Good to know. I’m still learning so I was hoping that wasn’t user error lol


Also if you want to load a custom IR folder through the loader built into the plugin, is there a way to scroll through the preceding and proceeding .wav IR files without having to re-open the whole folder and click them one by one? I didn’t see one.


----------



## Kaura

fob said:


> Also if you want to load a custom IR folder through the loader built into the plugin, is there a way to scroll through the preceding and proceeding .wav IR files without having to re-open the whole folder and click them one by one? I didn’t see one.



No there isn't at least when I used it with Cubase but that's another feature they should really add in the next update. Just a hint, in case the Neural DSP guys are lurking on this thread.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

fob said:


> Good to know. I’m still learning so I was hoping that wasn’t user error lol
> 
> 
> Also if you want to load a custom IR folder through the loader built into the plugin, is there a way to scroll through the preceding and proceeding .wav IR files without having to re-open the whole folder and click them one by one? I didn’t see one.





Kaura said:


> No there isn't at least when I used it with Cubase but that's another feature they should really add in the next update. Just a hint, in case the Neural DSP guys are lurking on this thread.



You can copy the ones you frequently use to the default folder though and then it lets you select them from the drop-down list.


----------



## JD27

Wow, the Grind sounds like ass. The plugin is pretty fun though, especially with good IRs, I have a bunch from the Ownhammer Heavy Hitters Vol 1. I just use the TSE808 plugin with it. Going to try it this week with an Orange Omec Teleport so I can run it through my power amp, 2x12s, and a Precision Drive.


----------



## vertibration

JD27 said:


> Wow, the Grind sounds like ass. The plugin is pretty fun though, especially with good IRs, I have a bunch from the Ownhammer Heavy Hitters Vol 1. I just use the TSE808 plugin with it. Going to try it this week with an Orange Omec Teleport so I can run it through my power amp, 2x12s, and a Precision Drive.



Yea, I would like to see an update that tames a bit of that high end


----------



## axxessdenied

I know what you guys are talking about. I get that if I set the fortin up with way too much gain. lol
I use the zuul in front of my interface and don't need any additional gating in my DAW and don't get any weird pumping noise. But, I did a direct comparison with Kazrog Damage 120 and the Fortin not any noisier than it with similar dialed in tones / volume with the exact same DI signal.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

Try using mic placement and blending to tame the hi-end before turning the presence and treble down. Move the sm57 out a bit and then blend a 906 moved a little away at a lower volume. You can curve off a lot of the highs that way.


----------



## axxessdenied

I have a question. 

How many of you guys have actually DIMED a tube amp and listened to the noise floor they have? Amps are NOT quiet at extreme settings.


----------



## fob

axxessdenied said:


> I have a question.
> 
> How many of you guys have actually DIMED a tube amp and listened to the noise floor they have? Amps are NOT quiet at extreme settings.


One of the cons of a sim is that it won't ever be the real thing in a sense that's always going to be distinguishable because of physics IMO (real tubes being pushes and real speakers being pushed, vs algorithms simulating it), but one of the benefits is that you can fix things about real amps that are effects of those real processes happening easier that might not be desirable. 


Since this is on the topic of an amp aim and that regards D.I., and since we've already off railed lol, I am considering getting a D.I. box. I use a Presonus Firewire straight into the Instrument input, and just have the gain at 0. I get about -12Db to -6Db, and I think it sounds pretty balanced. I've seen a few people suggest the Little Labs D.I. Box (http://www.littlelabs.com/redeye.html) even though I do have a pretty good interface. Any opinions on this would be appreciated.


----------



## Vyn

axxessdenied said:


> I have a question.
> 
> How many of you guys have actually DIMED a tube amp and listened to the noise floor they have? Amps are NOT quiet at extreme settings.



I suspect the answer to that question is not many. There are few places where the sound of a 100w+ valve head and 4x12 can be used and cranked like hell. We used to have a shed in the middle of a paddock for practice. The driveway to the shed was over a kilometre long and you could hear the sound of the Triple Rectifier from the other end of it.


----------



## narad

fob said:


> One of the cons of a sim is that it won't ever be the real thing in a sense that's always going to be distinguishable because of physics IMO (real tubes being pushes and real speakers being pushed, vs algorithms simulating it), but one of the benefits is that you can fix things about real amps that are effects of those real processes happening easier that might not be desirable.



Not sure why people feel like tubes and speakers are magical things. You can develop race cars, planes, bridges, and skyscrapers under simulation physics, but somehow we'll never be able to recreate that tube. While simultaneously a kemper or a bunch of JFET pedals will fool people a decent amount of the time.


----------



## fob

narad said:


> Not sure why people feel like tubes and speakers are magical things. You can develop race cars, planes, bridges, and skyscrapers under simulation physics, but somehow we'll never be able to recreate that tube. While simultaneously a kemper or a bunch of JFET pedals will fool people a decent amount of the time.


Like I said, to a degree, it's impossible to really replicate the actual physics of it. Although on a practical level, I 100% agree that it'll be simulated so well as to not be able to be distinguishable by our senses. There MAY always be a tiny factor of "you don't know it's there until it's gone" though, but I am ultimately in the camp that technology, innovation and automation are the answer for a lot. Amp sims are cheaper and just as effective at the end result and really are just as good as the hands of the person using them these days.


----------



## Vyn

narad said:


> Not sure why people feel like tubes and speakers are magical things. You can develop race cars, planes, bridges, and skyscrapers under simulation physics, but somehow we'll never be able to recreate that tube. While simultaneously a kemper or a bunch of JFET pedals will fool people a decent amount of the time.



Welcome to creative industries where everything is subjective. You could create THE perfect digital pre-amp/IR simulation of someone's favourite gear to the point where the waveform behaves exactly the same, has the same harmonic overtones, same response etc and people will still claim to be able to hear the difference and rag on it because it's not valve.


----------



## Rev2010

axxessdenied said:


> I have a question.
> 
> How many of you guys have actually DIMED a tube amp and listened to the noise floor they have? Amps are NOT quiet at extreme settings.



I have a question for you... how come you keep trying to defend the Fortin for its noise floor? A plugin is NOT a tube amp. I am not diming the Fortin Nameless either, but compared against using Helix Native, Amplitube, my POD HD, and Guitar Rig at similar settings the Fortin is noticeably noisier. I'm not the only one to report this. It doesn't make the plugin unusable but it's something that can be brought down with better coding/design. The CPU usage is also higher than a dual amp instance of Helix Native running with a boost, an IR, post EQ, and a noise gate, and I'm not using the Grind or their built in gate. Again, that can be lower via code optimization. These are all observations. I don't think anyone so far has said it's unusable.

Rev.


----------



## narad

Rev2010 said:


> The CPU usage is also higher than a dual amp instance of Helix Native running with a boost, an IR, post EQ, and a noise gate, and I'm not using the Grind or their built in gate. Again, that can be lower via code optimization. These are all observations. I don't think anyone so far has said it's unusable.
> 
> Rev.



The CPU usage isn't something you can blame outright on code optimization. More complex sim requires more cpu usage. One would expect successive sims to require increasing power.


----------



## Chrisesp

Downloaded the trial and had a quick play. The plugin is cool but far too bright and thin with the Grind pedal on. I've had best results with no Grind pedal and with the MVC pulled out. Here is a quick tone test using an Ownhammer IR and a bit of EQ-

https://www.dropbox.com/s/hhzk26ef7kj839y/fortin tone test.wav?dl=0

To me though, any of these amp sims always sound digital no matter how I try to EQ them. Here is the same riff with my Dual Rectifier Roadster into a Suhr reactive load using the same IR. Sounds way more natural to me.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/b1namsn2d7248hn/mesa new.wav?dl=0

Thoughts?


----------



## DudeManBrother

Chrisesp said:


> Downloaded the trial and had a quick play. The plugin is cool but far too bright and thin with the Grind pedal on. I've had best results with no Grind pedal and with the MVC pulled out. Here is a quick tone test using an Ownhammer IR and a bit of EQ-
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/hhzk26ef7kj839y/fortin tone test.wav?dl=0
> 
> To me though, any of these amp sims always sound digital no matter how I try to EQ them. Here is the same riff with my Dual Rectifier Roadster into a Suhr reactive load using the same IR. Sounds way more natural to me.
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/rfl00fvbg9z7nw2/mesa tone test.wav?dl=0
> 
> Thoughts?


Dual Recto all day IMO. Sounds great


----------



## Chrisesp

DudeManBrother said:


> Dual Recto all day IMO. Sounds great



Thanks man, I agree. The real amp just breathes more to my ears.

I was hearing some nasty frequences through my headphones so I've made a few EQ adjustments and here are the updated links.

Fortin Plugin>Ownhammer IR>EQ - https://www.dropbox.com/s/54b820zk1jkianv/fortin final.wav?dl=0

Mesa Dual Rectifier Roadster>Suhr RL>Ownhammer IR>EQ - https://www.dropbox.com/s/crps9nkn62f45n6/mesa final.wav?dl=0


----------



## axxessdenied

Rev2010 said:


> I have a question for you... how come you keep trying to defend the Fortin for its noise floor? A plugin is NOT a tube amp. I am not diming the Fortin Nameless either, but compared against using Helix Native, Amplitube, my POD HD, and Guitar Rig at similar settings the Fortin is noticeably noisier. I'm not the only one to report this. It doesn't make the plugin unusable but it's something that can be brought down with better coding/design. The CPU usage is also higher than a dual amp instance of Helix Native running with a boost, an IR, post EQ, and a noise gate, and I'm not using the Grind or their built in gate. Again, that can be lower via code optimization. These are all observations. I don't think anyone so far has said it's unusable.
> 
> Rev.


I've compared it against a few other high gain models that I have in my arsenal. It's no noisier than other sims when they are set up for similar tones at the exact same volumes. I actually spent time tweaking each one to get them to sound similar to the fortin amp in terms of EQ and gain before comparing. Not just opening them in default settings. the grind itself is the noisiest part of the fortin suite. the amp itself is fine, imo.
I just did a comparison with ReAxis. Not really any different in terms of how much noise each vst generated. (comparing just amps, not using any of the pedals / gates, etc)


----------



## axxessdenied

boost another amp sim with the grind in the fortin suite and see what happens. the grind is the offender. If used with pretty conservative settings it's fine. I treat it more like an EQ than an actual boost. I just use the input trim as the boost.


----------



## Andrew Lloyd Webber

axxessdenied said:


> I just use the input trim as the boost.



If you go on giving people the respect and benefit of the doubt that they bought this product with any understanding of it beyond that it was for sale, you’re going to continue to find yourself misunderstood.


----------



## axxessdenied

Good point haha


----------



## axxessdenied

been messing around with the just the amp a bit so I decided to see if I can make the grind pedal usable with a 6-string guitar (tuned Eb).
so I was tinkering with the grinds level and just playing some simple palm muted power chords and it kind of sounded like there was weird clipping going on that shouldn't be happening.
So... knowing the grind in real life is meant to be a +20db boost I figured what the hell and took the input trim down to -20db. Readjust the gain a bit in low-gain mode with the grind engage and now I'm jamming with no obnoxious noise with the grind pedal maxed out. Give it a shot!


side note: doing my experimentation with ZERO GATING, no software or pedal gates involved.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

I wish they would have opted for a demo release where the audio cuts out every 30 seconds or whatever because it would be nice to follow along when updates come out as well as have the option to re-evaluate the plugin later on if I decide/think I don't like it now.


----------



## Flappydoodle

Chrisesp said:


> Thanks man, I agree. The real amp just breathes more to my ears.
> 
> I was hearing some nasty frequences through my headphones so I've made a few EQ adjustments and here are the updated links.
> 
> Fortin Plugin>Ownhammer IR>EQ - https://www.dropbox.com/s/54b820zk1jkianv/fortin final.wav?dl=0
> 
> Mesa Dual Rectifier Roadster>Suhr RL>Ownhammer IR>EQ - https://www.dropbox.com/s/crps9nkn62f45n6/mesa final.wav?dl=0



In all fairness, they're totally different sounds. The Fortin is a modded Marshall, which is nothing like a dual recto, lol.

Personally, I prefer the Fortin tone in this specific example that you uploaded. The recto is more mushy, too much mid-range IMO.

Same impulse response for both?


----------



## Chrisesp

Flappydoodle said:


> In all fairness, they're totally different sounds. The Fortin is a modded Marshall, which is nothing like a dual recto, lol.
> 
> Personally, I prefer the Fortin tone in this specific example that you uploaded. The recto is more mushy, too much mid-range IMO.
> 
> Same impulse response for both?



I agree with you on the comparison being kind of pointless. I did go away thinking that a few hours after I'd posted it. The IR used was the same for both but again, what works for one amp doesn't always work for another. It was more to demonstrate the digital sound of an amp sim that my ears perceive.

Having said that, I think I've found an IR that suits the Fortin much better. Recording sonething to post as we speak.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

Chrisesp said:


> I agree with you on the comparison being kind of pointless. I did go away thinking that a few hours after I'd posted it. The IR used was the same for both but again, what works for one amp doesn't always work for another. It was more to demonstrate the digital sound of an amp sim that my ears perceive.
> 
> Having said that, I think I've found an IR that suits the Fortin much better. Recording sonething to post as we speak.



Honestly, I'm curious on how the two (the amp and the sim) would sound blended together. Tons of clarity from the Fortin sim and lots of body and warmth from the Mesa amp.


----------



## axxessdenied

ReAxis + Fortin Suite blended together sounds heinous


----------



## LeviathanKiller

axxessdenied said:


> ReAxis + Fortin Suite blended together sounds heinous



I'm wondering how it sounds with a real amp though. Some of my favorite sounds are two amps blended together. I find that the best way to mix them is have one kinda dull but thick and the other thin with the treble and clarity.


----------



## fob

Variety is the spice of life my dudes


----------



## vertibration

I'd like some folks to post what kind of guitars, and pickups they are using with the Fortin. I have a 7421 with EMG's until I get a new guitar, and I want some suggestions. Im thinking about getting a custom Kiesel Tele 8 string multi scale


----------



## oneblackened

narad said:


> Not sure why people feel like tubes and speakers are magical things. You can develop race cars, planes, bridges, and skyscrapers under simulation physics, but somehow we'll never be able to recreate that tube. While simultaneously a kemper or a bunch of JFET pedals will fool people a decent amount of the time.


 That's because essentially nobody has actually accurately recreated tubes, at least nothing beyond a triode (and even then, not great). It just requires too much processing power to do beam tetrodes or pentodes at this point in a plugin and I think most will agree that a tube power amp is pretty essential to actually getting things right.


----------



## narad

oneblackened said:


> That's because essentially nobody has actually accurately recreated tubes, at least nothing beyond a triode (and even then, not great). It just requires too much processing power to do beam tetrodes or pentodes at this point in a plugin and I think most will agree that a tube power amp is pretty essential to actually getting things right.



It should come as no surprise to know that most of the people developing tube simulations for plug-ins are not the same guys developing the physics simulations with hundreds of millions of dollars and human lives at stake. It's like asking a physics grad student to mix your album for you -- it's the wrong kind of background. 

If everyone thought that because something didn't exist, that it is sufficient evidence that something couldn't exist, we'd pretty much be beating each other over the head with cudgels to see who gets to eat the best part of the mammoth tonight. I'm sure many people would have said the same thing pre-Kemper, that such a thing couldn't exist and work to the degree that it does.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

https://app.box.com/s/s07s0ztyoacavipayqex7pcnrmi0dmme
made a clip of the fortin plugin with an ownhammer diezel/mesa 4x12 blend IR. I used my knightro 8 string loaded with elysian goliaths in F#standard and a bit of drop E at the end. The guitar is kind of bright and the pickups are pretty spanky so it kind of exacerbates the kerrang of the amp at times :


----------



## LeviathanKiller

narad said:


> It should come as no surprise to know that most of the people developing tube simulations for plug-ins are not the same guys developing the physics simulations with hundreds of millions of dollars and human lives at stake. It's like asking a physics grad student to mix your album for you -- it's the wrong kind of background.
> 
> If everyone thought that because something didn't exist, that it is sufficient evidence that something couldn't exist, we'd pretty much be beating each other over the head with cudgels to see who gets to eat the best part of the mammoth tonight. I'm sure many people would have said the same thing pre-Kemper, that such a thing couldn't exist and work to the degree that it does.



I think it's that. We just don't have a large amount of talent behind such an effort. The dev groups at Fractal, Kemper, Line6, and so on are all pretty small. The lack of importance means there's less pay which means it doesn't draw as many devs in. A lot of sims and stuff out there are people's hobby projects, they don't survive off those sales. If we had more musicians with technical backgrounds that had time, we'd be a lot better off.


----------



## Andrew Lloyd Webber




----------



## Tree

Finally downloaded the demo yesterday and the damn PACE installer just sat at the final step forever without finishing. 

Anyone else run into this issue? Google was no help. Running WIN7 64bit


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Tree said:


> Finally downloaded the demo yesterday and the damn PACE installer just sat at the final step forever without finishing.
> 
> Anyone else run into this issue? Google was no help. Running WIN7 64bit


it happened to me the first time I tried installing it. uninstall and reinstall worked for me


----------



## Tree

KnightBrolaire said:


> it happened to me the first time I tried installing it. uninstall and reinstall worked for me



Okay I’ll have to give that a shot. Did you uninstall the plugin too, or just the license manager?


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Tree said:


> Okay I’ll have to give that a shot. Did you uninstall the plugin too, or just the license manager?


just the plugin and all the stuff from the .exe, you don't need to uninstall ilok


----------



## Tree

KnightBrolaire said:


> just the plugin and all the stuff from the .exe you don't need to uninstall ilok



For sure. Thanks, homie!


----------



## Flappydoodle

KnightBrolaire said:


> https://app.box.com/s/s07s0ztyoacavipayqex7pcnrmi0dmme
> made a clip of the fortin plugin with an ownhammer diezel/mesa 4x12 blend IR. I used my knightro 8 string loaded with elysian goliaths in F#standard and a bit of drop E at the end. The guitar is kind of bright and the pickups are pretty spanky so it kind of exacerbates the kerrang of the amp at times :



I think that's how the real amp actually sounds. Found this cool play through on YouTube



The plugin is really spot on IMO. All the characteristics are there.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Flappydoodle said:


> I think that's how the real amp actually sounds. Found this cool play through on YouTube
> 
> 
> 
> The plugin is really spot on IMO. All the characteristics are there.



yeah, it reminds me a lot of my mk3 a lot (which I'd swear is based off the hot rodded marshall tone). Both are pretty bright/midrangey with great chuggy low end


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands




----------



## hYpYz

anyone had issues getting the demo to be visible in the vst list ?
I have other plugins like reaxis working fine.
The parth to the dll i have chosed is the one in program files/ common files under avid
I am using Reaper. and I lok is installed turned on and license is activated.
I tried with 32 and 64 bit versions. Tried reinstalling the plug in.
Tried rescanning adding both versions path and it just doesnt show up in the list.
Am i missing something ?


----------



## Kaura

hYpYz said:


> anyone had issues getting the demo to be visible in the vst list ?
> I have other plugins like reaxis working fine.
> The parth to the dll i have chosed is the one in program files/ common files under avid
> I am using Reaper. and I lok is installed turned on and license is activated.
> I tried with 32 and 64 bit versions. Tried reinstalling the plug in.
> Tried rescanning adding both versions path and it just doesnt show up in the list.
> Am i missing something ?



First when I installed the full version, I put the .dll file inside its own folder I made for it under the general vst folder and couldn't see it in the plugin list in Cubase. Then I just slapped it in the general vst folder and it came visible.


----------



## Breeding The Spawn

The plugin only became visible after I activated it in ilok license manager. I didn't have to put .dll file any where. It popped up on Reaper right away. Btw, the plugin is really sick, took no longer than a few minutes to find a really good tone.


----------



## Flappydoodle

hYpYz said:


> anyone had issues getting the demo to be visible in the vst list ?
> I have other plugins like reaxis working fine.
> The parth to the dll i have chosed is the one in program files/ common files under avid
> I am using Reaper. and I lok is installed turned on and license is activated.
> I tried with 32 and 64 bit versions. Tried reinstalling the plug in.
> Tried rescanning adding both versions path and it just doesnt show up in the list.
> Am i missing something ?



Are you on Mac?

If so, there are two audio plugin files. One is in the "library" folder of your root. Library, audio, plugins.

The other is under your user folder, library, audio, plugins

The installer by default put it into the wrong one. Just cut and paste into the correct folder.


----------



## Steinmetzify

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


>




Interesting. Lasse is usually my boy for tones but I like Jason’s vid/tones a lot more here. Thanks for posting this mang


----------



## Flappydoodle

steinmetzify said:


> Interesting. Lasse is usually my boy for tones but I like Jason’s vid/tones a lot more here. Thanks for posting this mang



Doesn't really sound "right" with his own impulses I think. His tone sounds noticeably different from other demos (and my own experimentation) using in the built-in cab sims


----------



## Flappydoodle

Also, I have to say, this thing sounds fucking incredible on my 7 string Eclipse with an EMG 57 in the bridge. It's a very fat-sounding guitar, so it goes well with this ultra-tight, high attack amp that has tons of note definition and treble frequencies.

MY main guitar (Caparison Brocken baritone) doesn't sound anywhere near as good with this sim. Far too thin and brittle unless you disable the grind, turn the presence to 0 etc, which kinda defeats the point of this plugin. That guitar has lower output passive pickups, it's baritone (so brighter), and generally has much more note definition and clarity. With this amp sim, it's just way too much.


----------



## axxessdenied

https://www.instagram.com/p/BnvIsS1nTUi/?taken-by=axxessdenied just a quick video I did playing along to Jinjer. What's incredible about the fortin vst is that it DOES NOT make you feel like you're using a plugin at all when you jam along with an actual song. I think that was one of the things that really stood out to me when I used other VSTs to jam to songs on youtube for example. The fortin just sounds and reacts so well!


----------



## axxessdenied

getting some T H I C C tones with this setting lol


----------



## Wojtas_guitar1

Guys, this plugin is really worth it. It is very easy to use and easy to get solid tones. There is not much difference between Fortin and fractal. Download the demo version and check it by yourself !
Check my demo:


----------



## axxessdenied

Awesome tone @Wojtas_guitar1


----------



## Paul McAleer

Gave the demo version a try just now.

Initial thoughts are that the Grind pedal sim sounds/feels overkill for the Amp sim. It already feels nice and clanky?? on its own when adjusting GAIN I/II knobs with the MVC pull gain out.

This could be justifiable if you don't already have an arsenal of VSTs or rack gear. It's just very plug n' play nice sounding from the start of the plugin.


PS - I wanna jamming on this with the ibanez m80m


----------



## LeviathanKiller




----------



## Frostbite

New update

## [1.1.2] - September 18th 2018
### Changed
- Gate takes the Sidechain from the input and applies gate after the amp section.
‍- Input Gate is now called Gate and automation parameter is called Threshold.
- Gate Release time faster.
- AU Validator was not passing on some tests. FIXED.
- Small improvement in noise.
- Default Settings set to “good to go” settings instead of all controls at noon.

I love how quickly they're releasing updates for this thing and they updates of things that make it even better. The gate is much more usable now and the noise is noticeably better. I can't sing the praises of this plugin enough at this point


----------



## axxessdenied

DOPE! downloading the update now


----------



## Flappydoodle

LeviathanKiller said:


>




Interesting how he says the grind plugin sounds more like the 33. I did notice that the knob on the plugin is also like the 33, not the grind. Also, look at the LED colour. Wonder which one NeuralDSP actually modelled...


----------



## Paul McAleer

Very willing to bet it's taken after the 33. Given with how much boost and low freq cut it gives out.


----------



## Flappydoodle

Paul McAleer said:


> Very willing to bet it's taken after the 33. Given with how much boost and low freq cut it gives out.



IMO, yep. And so they hinted at it, but aren't able to say it explicitly. Just like how the amp is "nameless" because of copyright/whatever reasons.


----------



## fob

Paul McAleer said:


> Very willing to bet it's taken after the 33. Given with how much boost and low freq cut it gives out.


Seems that way to my ears as well. I would love the option for both cause there’s a certain sharp edge to the pedal on the Fortin suite ATM but I would like to have an option to retain some of the bass while also having that chomp.


Also kickass update. Seemed to really help some of that noise when I played through it.


----------



## Vyn

Finally got around to getting the plugin and having a play. I've spent a couple of hours just jamming on the default preset because it's just that good. Seriously, are NeuralDSP made of wizards or something? If I was blind and had to A/B that against a real amp and my life depended on getting the answer right, I'd be dead. I can't tell the difference at all.


----------



## SamSam

I'm having serious noise issues with this plugin. Gonna dedicate an evening to trying to sort it out.

Any tips?


----------



## Kaura

Wow, the noise is almost


SamSam said:


> I'm having serious noise issues with this plugin. Gonna dedicate an evening to trying to sort it out.
> 
> Any tips?



Even with the noise gate enabled? 

I tried the updated version. They really tamed the noise issue, imo. Now I just have to set the gate around -70 db to make the sound decent enough when before I had to put it below -50. Though, I still like using a separate gate from GR5 since it kinda cleans up the tone while playing instead of just removing the noise while not playing.


----------



## SamSam

Does the new update have a new ui? Does the gate now have a second dial? I think the update might not have been applied (likely need a reset).


----------



## Kaura

SamSam said:


> Does the new update have a new ui? Does the gate now have a second dial? I think the update might not have been applied (likely need a reset).



I was thinking the same but I noticed when I open the plugin the knobs are not set at noon so I guess it works.


----------



## SamSam

In that case it has definitely updated, I'll mess with around with it later and perhaps try using the axe fx as a line in as opposed to the interface


----------



## shred-o-holic

This is on my list to try. Big Fortin fan \m/


----------



## Flappydoodle

The update is great. 

Noticeably quieter. And the default settings don’t sound like tiny shit any more. In fact, they’re very similar to where I ended up after tweaking. 

The key to thickening up the sound is disabling the grind/33 pedal, move the mic away from the centre, blend in a darker mic (R121 for example). If you do that, you don’t need to turn the presence down to 2 any more. Then you get a nice bite without being brittle. 

I still sometimes boost with TSE 808 in front, but it’s not really needed.


----------



## Snarpaasi

Funny how they chose initially everything at noon as a default. It might work for some amps but for the pessimistic people and those who don't want to tweak too much, the first impression is extremely important. Great that they fixed the settings in the update.


----------



## CrystalMatts

I got the plugin (ver is 1.1.2), but I have an Issue with master volume control being very quiet when I pull it, and gain isn't behaving properly. Both sound like low gain. Can't dial the output above -10db (very loud in comparison with all channels), input above -2db and the gate just cuts most of the sound whilst playing when i go above - 50db.
Equipment used:
- Forcusrite Scarlet 2i2
- Klotz guitar cable
- Ibanez 2127z w/ BKP aftermaths
- MSP7 Yamaha Monitors
Although I noticed a very big improvement with just swapping VST's (old vs Fortin NS), the mix is atleast 5 times better with these guitars.
edit: typos


----------



## SteveFireland

I recorded my latest album with an AX8 and after firing all the DIs through this plugin, I'm actually going to have to go back and redo all my AX8 patches. So much chunk, so much percussive attack... it makes my AX8 patches sound very old school. It's the first plugin I'd happily use on an album recording. I am impressed.


----------



## Neural DSP

Hello guys. Neural DSP team here. First of all, thank you for the support and positive comments on our products!

We have been following the forum and we are working hard on improving the Fortin Nameless Suite every day. 

As we enjoy positive feedback, we also pay a lot of attention to negative feedback and possible improvements. We have to communicate that we will release version 1.1.3 version today since we did an internal mistake in the sound of the plugin. If you had a session with the plugin before, version 1.1.2 will sound 4 dB louder and with slightly different tone. MVC pot also produces errors while it's at max value. 

Otherwise, it remains the same, noise floor and gate are improved in version 1.1.3 but it respects the sound of the previous versions. 

We are sorry if someone already run through this issue. 

Thank you all for your patience and support. We will always work towards improving our products to the best possible and impossible.


----------



## Steinmetzify

Neural DSP said:


> Hello guys. Neural DSP team here. First of all, thank you for the support and positive comments on our products!
> 
> We have been following the forum and we are working hard on improving the Fortin Nameless Suite every day.
> 
> As we enjoy positive feedback, we also pay a lot of attention to negative feedback and possible improvements. We have to communicate that we will release version 1.1.3 version today since we did an internal mistake in the sound of the plugin. If you had a session with the plugin before, version 1.1.2 will sound 4 dB louder and with slightly different tone. MVC pot also produces errors while it's at max value.
> 
> Otherwise, it remains the same, noise floor and gate are improved in version 1.1.3 but it respects the sound of the previous versions.
> 
> We are sorry if someone already run through this issue.
> 
> Thank you all for your patience and support. We will always work towards improving our products to the best possible and impossible.



Man guys, I really wish I could try this; I was one of the unfortunates that the UI didn’t work for, and now my trial has expired and I can’t use it. 

I got the email about 20 minutes ago that you’d updated the trial and hoped I’d be able to give it a shot but it won’t let me. 

Heard nothing but good things about it tho, so sounds like you’ve got a winner on your hands. Good luck with it! @Neural DSP


----------



## axxessdenied

Sweet downloading now!


----------



## Neural DSP

steinmetzify said:


> Man guys, I really wish I could try this; I was one of the unfortunates that the UI didn’t work for, and now my trial has expired and I can’t use it.
> 
> I got the email about 20 minutes ago that you’d updated the trial and hoped I’d be able to give it a shot but it won’t let me.
> 
> Heard nothing but good things about it tho, so sounds like you’ve got a winner on your hands. Good luck with it! @Neural DSP




Please just send us a message to support with your iLok account. We don't have any problem on extending your Trial time! 

Same goes for anyone who has had technical issues and has not been able to fully experience 14 days of Trial period.

Thank you again!


----------



## CrystalMatts

I think I still got the guarantee for my Scarlett 2i2, I'll change it out and see if that fixes my issue. I just noticed that the grind pedal also doesn't behave like it should. I tried it with the Precision Drive in front and it sounded quite boosted (like it should I guess). I'll update you guys with my progress, and I'm hoping it's just the scarlett and not a different hardware issue. Cheers!


----------



## Flappydoodle

Fantastic video here. The guy who actually did all of the cabinet mic'ing and impulse capturing gives tips on how to dial it in.

He points out that the GUI isn't realistic with regards to the mic positions. So the cap edge isn't actually the cap edge.

Also, helpful points about setting input gain and the important of it


----------



## Flappydoodle

So after following that video, I have an even better sound than I had before.

The guy literally turned presence to 0, treble to 0, mid to 10 etc. Disabled the grind/33 obviously.

I used the input gain to "boost" the amp instead of using the grind.

Then blend the 57 at the position he suggested (0.650) with the 121 about 6dB quieter... that's a seriously chunky sound.



Neural DSP said:


> Please just send us a message to support with your iLok account. We don't have any problem on extending your Trial time!
> 
> Same goes for anyone who has had technical issues and has not been able to fully experience 14 days of Trial period.
> 
> Thank you again!



Hi. You should implement some sort of preset sharing feature. Perhaps like BIAS do where it's online through the plugin. Or maybe even just a central repository web page.


----------



## Steinmetzify

Finally got this thing to work thanks to the guys at Neural DSP. They extended my trial because I couldn’t get it to run. 

However, this has been plagued with problems. I’m running an i7 with 16 GB of RAM and a 512 SSD and I’m getting pops, glitches, latency and dropouts every 5-6 seconds. 

There’s no way my comp can’t run this VST, especially when I loaded ReAxis up right after and it ran fine, same sample rates, everything. 

Anyone got any ideas?


----------



## lewstherin006

I had issues with 1.12, but the update to 1.13 finally let me use it! It wasnt showing up in my DAW plug in list. Took a shot at getting some sounds with it, even tried some cleans. Let me know what you think.


----------



## Steinmetzify

Woke up to an email from Neural DSP this morning, concerned I was still having issues; asked for comp specs which I provided, then asked me for a phone video. Said I would after work, worked later than intended, came home and fired everything up after a restart.

Now it works flawlessly; I have zero idea what the fuck is happening.

I will say this though; I’m not even a CUSTOMER, and their customer service is off the charts. 

Major kudos to you guys, thanks for all your help @Neural DSP


----------



## Elric

Loving this plugin. I am generally into stuff with a lot of complexity & features but this thing is definitely bad a**. Hope they have some more cool stuff in the works and keep tweaking on this one.


----------



## 7slinger

ugh frustrated. have downloaded and installed, activated, deactivated, uninstalled, lathered, rinsed, repeated, etc.

can't get it to show up on plugin list

reaper and windows 7


----------



## hvdh

Competition has arrived. I hope without this Ilok drama.
https://www.gearnews.com/audio-assault-emperor-amp-sim-plug-in-a-high-gain-bargain/


----------



## Neural DSP

7slinger said:


> ugh frustrated. have downloaded and installed, activated, deactivated, uninstalled, lathered, rinsed, repeated, etc.
> 
> can't get it to show up on plugin list
> 
> reaper and windows 7




Can you please write to our support team? If your license is correctly activated, you might need to press the Clear cache and rescan button in Reaper Preferences. 

Please write us an email and we will solve it in no time!


----------



## 7slinger

message sent


----------



## mikah912

hvdh said:


> Competition has arrived. I hope without this Ilok drama.
> https://www.gearnews.com/audio-assault-emperor-amp-sim-plug-in-a-high-gain-bargain/




From the Grind Machine guys? Hmmm....doesn't fill me with confidence at all. Nor does the sound in this demo. I think Fortin Nameless is absolutely worth the price they're charging.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

Grind Machine II was alright. It's been a while since I've played with it though


----------



## KnightBrolaire

hvdh said:


> Competition has arrived. I hope without this Ilok drama.
> https://www.gearnews.com/audio-assault-emperor-amp-sim-plug-in-a-high-gain-bargain/



doesn't even sound that good in that clip.


----------



## Kaura

hvdh said:


> Competition has arrived. I hope without this Ilok drama.
> https://www.gearnews.com/audio-assault-emperor-amp-sim-plug-in-a-high-gain-bargain/




Sounds nice for 35$ (15$ on sale right now) but definitely no contest for the NS.


----------



## alessandroarzilli

After one month from its release, I think it's time for me to buy it.
I'm just anxious to know if it will sound good with my Jackson JS22-7 and its bridge SD Invader SH-8B.


----------



## 7slinger

support figured it out, now I can check this out

I must say that was a nice support experience too


----------



## Flappydoodle

alessandroarzilli said:


> After one month from its release, I think it's time for me to buy it.
> I'm just anxious to know if it will sound good with my Jackson JS22-7 and its bridge SD Invader SH-8B.



I think that's what the 14 day demo is for


----------



## axxessdenied

I've even just been using the IRs on their own without the amp and grind engaged. Got dang!! Running a preamp pedal into a power amp sim then into the fortin IRs sounds sick af


----------



## Andromalia

Why is everybody doing their demos with "modern metal" tropes :/


----------



## Metropolis

Matias Kupiainen from Stratovarius playing through Fortin Nameless.


----------



## Kaura

Metropolis said:


> Matias Kupiainen from Stratovarius playing through Fortin Nameless.




Sounds awesome. Maybe that will prove that the plugin is not only for djent tones.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

Stratovarius sound a lot different nowadays! Usually amp sims sound thin and brittle with low gain settings like that but it holds up very well here. His lead sound is really good but Mathias has that fluent finger tone which would make anything sound good.

I got an email over the weekend with the offer to extend your trial period. This company really has their customer service down.


----------



## Vyn

It does have the best 'Modern Metal' tone out there IMO but for me what really sells it is just how damned good the plexi-crunch tones are. Holy shit.


----------



## axxessdenied

Did a comparison of 20 different sims starting with the Fortin! 0:58 is when the guitar sounds start.


----------



## Cynicanal

Thermionik FB100, TSE X50 II, and Ignite Emissary blew the others out of the water in that IMO.


----------



## Flappydoodle

Cynicanal said:


> Thermionik FB100, TSE X50 II, and Ignite Emissary blew the others out of the water in that IMO.



Suspect that's more down to the cabinet impulse used than the sim itself.



axxessdenied said:


> Did a comparison of 20 different sims starting with the Fortin! 0:58 is when the guitar sounds start.




Totally agree that you need to put them through the same cabinet impulse. The impulse makes 80% of the difference IMO.


----------



## axxessdenied

Yeah, I'm going to totally do it up. I'll probably use Wall of Sound.


----------



## Metropolis

Problem is that playing feel of a certain amp sim doesn't ever translate from videos, just the tone. Matching every amp sim to some kind of a reference tone you're aiming for and choosing different IR's to every amp could be most fair comparison.


----------



## axxessdenied

Totally! I think I mention in the video that the fortin and ss-11x felt the best but overall theres a ton of usable stuff mixwise.
I have four more comparisons planned using different IRs to see how the amp models actually compare. Some of the stock IRs companies have are absolutely rancid lol!
I have planned : ML Sound Labs FREE IR (everyone can access this tone free), Wall of Sound with the Fortin UK cab, The Cab section from Nameless Suite and my own secret blend of IRs \m/


----------



## EL_JEFE

I'm digging this plugin, trying the demo...is there a way to add your own IR's in the paid version?


----------



## SamSam

Just deactivate the cabs and add a cab loader as your next plug in


----------



## axxessdenied

EL_JEFE said:


> I'm digging this plugin, trying the demo...is there a way to add your own IR's in the paid version?


Yeah, just click on the dropdown for mic's and there is an option to load your own IR file! No need to use any other plugins.


----------



## Kaura

axxessdenied said:


> Did a comparison of 20 different sims starting with the Fortin! 0:58 is when the guitar sounds start.




Personally this just proves that you need to test everything yourself to see if it fits you. For example, Emissary sounded awesome in that video but when I use it myself, it sounds absolute dogshit.


----------



## axxessdenied

Kaura said:


> Personally this just proves that you need to test everything yourself to see if it fits you. For example, Emissary sounded awesome in that video but when I use it myself, it sounds absolute dogshit.


You should always test things for yourself before making a final decision! 

Here is a comparison using a free IR you can download from ML Sound Lab. There's a link in the video description for it \m/


----------



## Cynicanal

Softube and Grind Machine II did way better here, but the FB100, X50 II and Emissary were still the clear winners IMO.


----------



## TheComplainingGamer

Hey guys, this is my first post here. Recently came back to the world of guitar after many years.

I have a Nameless contribution I'd like to share, could a mod remove the 2 day link restrictions for me?


----------



## Metropolis

I thinked about that feel thing little bit more, you can hear from amps decay or attack (what ever you want to call it) a clue how it's gonna feel, but just hearing things like that is not very accurate. I've tried quite a few of those, Fortin, Mercuriall and Kazrog have this area covered best.


----------



## Cynicanal

If you want feel, why aren't you just using an amp? The point of amp-sims is easy recording, so what really matters there is how it sounds.


----------



## Andrew Lloyd Webber

Cynicanal said:


> If you want feel, why aren't you just using an amp? The point of amp-sims is easy recording, so what really matters there is how it sounds.



Imagine if this was the marketing angle they went with.


----------



## hvdh

This EMISSARY BY IGNITE AMPS is indeed a freaking good sounding plugin. And it is for FREE
https://www.kvraudio.com/product/emissary-by-ignite-amps


----------



## nMON

Metropolis said:


> Matias Kupiainen from Stratovarius playing through Fortin Nameless.



Good stuff, though I think 2 top tier VST are missing, BIAS FX and Waves PRS Archon. 2 different architectures, BIAS is dependent more on modeling pre-existing amps and internal cab simulation while PRS is Dependant more on external cab IR, well exclusivly on IR and they dont have any cab sims. BIAS does have a cab IR loader, but only if you edit with Bias AMPS. but feel, PRS definitely has the best response outside of Fortin that I've played. Fortin is the king or high gain IMO right now and I've been using VST exclusively for about 10 years now. BIAS is the most complete package though imo with their wonderful included pedals and then with BIAS pedal, you can emulate pedals as you do amps in BIAS Amps. all great stuff though.


----------



## TheComplainingGamer

axxessdenied said:


> You should always test things for yourself before making a final decision!
> 
> Here is a comparison using a free IR you can download from ML Sound Lab. There's a link in the video description for it \m/



Thank you for your comparison and detailed hardware description below the video however I do have a few extra questions...


Could we hear the DI momentarily too? The Babyface Pro being an RME product I assume that the preamps are excellent, how do they compare to a similar UA/Apogee/Audient Product DI?
Strings: brand, model, gauge and age.
Guitar cable?
Plectrum and playing style?
Pickups?
I'm personally very dissatisfied with my Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 DI, it's very muddy so I've been looking at products like the Audient iD4 for what is believed to be a significantly better preamp.


----------



## fob

TheComplainingGamer said:


> Thank you for your comparison and detailed hardware description below the video however I do have a few extra questions...
> 
> 
> Could we hear the DI momentarily too? The Babyface Pro being an RME product I assume that the preamps are excellent, how do they compare to a similar UA/Apogee/Audient Product DI?
> Strings: brand, model, gauge and age.
> Guitar cable?
> Plectrum and playing style?
> Pickups?
> I'm personally very dissatisfied with my Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 DI, it's very muddy so I've been looking at products like the Audient iD4 for what is believed to be a significantly better preamp.


For what it's worth I just got the Radial J48 DI box and it changed my DI tone for the hella better. I used to use a Scarlett 2i2 direct, tried the POD HD PRO X DI, and the current interface I'm using , the presonus FireWire into the Instr input. The guitar through the DI box into the line input is by far the best DI sound I've gotten from all the DI stuff I've tried to my ears. My tele sounded too thin and now sounds full and punch and you can hear WAY more articulation, and my 8 sounds WAY less muddy and more balanced with all the highs and lows when I have the high pass engaged. Would recommend looking into something similar first. I thought going from the Scarlett to the FireWire was gonna change everything but it wasn't what I hoped at all. THIS thing made all the difference for me. Instantly the Nameless sounded way better than it did before, which already sounded sick. So much extra hiss and noise from the Fortin is gone now too because my DI is cleaner.

My 2 cents.


----------



## TheComplainingGamer

fob said:


> For what it's worth I just got the Radial J48 DI box and it changed my DI tone for the hella better. I used to use a Scarlett 2i2 direct, tried the POD HD PRO X DI, and the current interface I'm using , the presonus FireWire into the Instr input. The guitar through the DI box into the line input is by far the best DI sound I've gotten from all the DI stuff I've tried to my ears. My tele sounded too thin and now sounds full and punch and you can hear WAY more articulation, and my 8 sounds WAY less muddy and more balanced with all the highs and lows when I have the high pass engaged. Would recommend looking into something similar first. I thought going from the Scarlett to the FireWire was gonna change everything but it wasn't what I hoped at all. THIS thing made all the difference for me. Instantly the Nameless sounded way better than it did before, which already sounded sick. So much extra hiss and noise from the Fortin is gone now too because my DI is cleaner.
> 
> My 2 cents.



Thanks for the input fob but my potential ignorance just leaves me confused here. The Radial will balance the signal afaik, so surely the Presonus has the final say on DI output as the Radial is going into it?


----------



## buriedoutback

fob said:


> Radial J48 DI box and it changed my DI tone for the hella better.


Same here. I bought a radial di and its way more betterer. definitely worth it.


----------



## fob

TheComplainingGamer said:


> Thanks for the input fob but my potential ignorance just leaves me confused here. The Radial will balance the signal afaik, so surely the Presonus has the final say on DI output as the Radial is going into it?


Maybe the preamp colors it a bit but I have the preamp turn all the way down and any signal strength and balance is coming from the DI box. Like I said I used the Instr input on the presbous, even with it turned up hot and various combinations. The DI box has the hardware that is doing something that it's specifically designed for with this purpose and it's hella noticable. Other DIs are passable to me, and can be improved with some tweaking maybe, but the DI box is a night and day difference in my experience so far.


----------



## axxessdenied

Here's all the amp sims going through the Fortin Nameless cab section!




TheComplainingGamer said:


> Thank you for your comparison and detailed hardware description below the video however I do have a few extra questions...
> 
> 
> Could we hear the DI momentarily too? The Babyface Pro being an RME product I assume that the preamps are excellent, how do they compare to a similar UA/Apogee/Audient Product DI?
> Strings: brand, model, gauge and age.
> Guitar cable?
> Plectrum and playing style?
> Pickups?
> I'm personally very dissatisfied with my Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 DI, it's very muddy so I've been looking at products like the Audient iD4 for what is believed to be a significantly better preamp.



Good points. I was planning on doing a video with my thoughts after these comparisons so I'll probably add that info to it!

But, I can answer your questions aside from posting the DI atm:
2. Elixir Optiwebs 10-46. Guitar is in Drop C right now but it might have still been in Drop C# when I recorded the DI. The guitar is a 24.75" scale. Strings are probably about a month old and surprisingly still bright.
3. I'm using https://www.covenantcables.com/ I have a coil-cable from him that he doesn't appear to have listed on the site atm. Guitar was going into a Sonic Research Turbo Tuner ST-300 > Fortin Zuul Noise Gate > Revv G3 (bypassed) and direct into my RME Babyface Pro. I have a Radial JDI but I find the RME has a great DI so no point in adding an extra thing to my signal chain. I use it more now to split my signal to my amp and DI at the same time.
4. I'm using a Winspear Instrumental Resin Shiv ... playing style.. um myself? lol 
5. Bareknuckle Pickups Aristides Customs


----------



## axxessdenied

Going further. The RME Babyface Pro was a massive upgrade to my sound overall. Not only are the preamps for recording vastly superior but the sound you HEAR from your monitors has a noticeably higher fidelity. There is a much lower noise floor because of the extremely good drivers that RME is known for. It seems like a lot of money on an interface but it's really the most important part of your signal chain when recording direct. I've read good things about the Audient ID4 sound quality. Not sure if they solved the latency issues on that unit. 
My old interface was a Presonus Firestudio Project and I also had a Roland duo-capture ex as a backup. There is really no comparing those interfaces to the RME tbh. Consumer grade vs pro grade.


----------



## TheComplainingGamer

axxessdenied said:


> Here's all the amp sims going through the Fortin Nameless cab section!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good points. I was planning on doing a video with my thoughts after these comparisons so I'll probably add that info to it!
> 
> But, I can answer your questions aside from posting the DI atm:
> 2. Elixir Optiwebs 10-46. Guitar is in Drop C right now but it might have still been in Drop C# when I recorded the DI. The guitar is a 24.75" scale. Strings are probably about a month old and surprisingly still bright.
> 3. I'm using covenant cables I have a coil-cable from him that he doesn't appear to have listed on the site atm. Guitar was going into a Sonic Research Turbo Tuner ST-300 > Fortin Zuul Noise Gate > Revv G3 (bypassed) and direct into my RME Babyface Pro. I have a Radial JDI but I find the RME has a great DI so no point in adding an extra thing to my signal chain. I use it more now to split my signal to my amp and DI at the same time.
> 4. I'm using a Winspear Instrumental Resin Shiv ... playing style.. um myself? lol
> 5. Bareknuckle Pickups Aristides Customs




Hmm, interesting approach in my opinion. Drop C using 10-46 and a shorter scale length. Your strings are surely quite loose. And the pick you listed seems to be very thick, so you've gone for an approach of light strings, thick pick. If you dig in aren't you going to get close to detuning the note?

You have A LOT of high-end gear, are you solely an enthusiast or do you have completed mixes I could check out?

It's interesting how the D'Addario EXL117 Nickel Wound 11-56 set claims 'optimized for D tuning'. Do you have any low end issues using 10-46?

As you said the RME is pro-grade and a bit expensive, what I'm looking for is a clean DI without the huge price tag.


----------



## axxessdenied

TheComplainingGamer said:


> Hmm, interesting approach in my opinion. Drop C using 10-46 and a shorter scale length. Your strings are surely quite loose. And the pick you listed seems to be very thick, so you've gone for an approach of light strings, thick pick. If you dig in aren't you going to get close to detuning the note?
> 
> You have A LOT of high-end gear, are you solely an enthusiast or do you have completed mixes I could check out?
> 
> It's interesting how the D'Addario EXL117 Nickel Wound 11-56 set claims 'optimized for D tuning'. Do you have any low end issues using 10-46?
> 
> As you said the RME is pro-grade and a bit expensive, what I'm looking for is a clean DI without the huge price tag.


I just tune to the attack. I've recorded a shortscale in F# with a 0.62 (thickest I could get on the bridge). I prefer a brighter tone so I try to use as thin of a gauge as I can. I also used 7-38 in standard for a couple weeks and that really changed my perspective on strings. 9s felt tight after! It's all relative to what you're used to.
The picks I'm using have a ton of attack so you don't have to use a lot of OOMPH to get notes to really jump out so it works out well for me!

The Audient ID4 seems to have great sound. I would just look into the latency on it before diving in. I'm sure it was just a driver issue and was taken care of by now.


----------



## TheComplainingGamer

Here's my initial contribution to the Nameless possibilities.

Working exclusively within the Fortin Nameless Suite from Neural DSP Technologies and using DI stems from Opeth’s track Deliverance this amp sim delivers an incredible guitar tone (in my opinion)

I used excellently captured guitar DI tracks from here https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1676590
The song/audio I chose is the introduction to Opeth's track Deliverance. It includes; guitar DI L/R x2, bass DI, drums mix/midi, no vocals.
I dialled in this tone based on the ml studio labs video. My preset fyi https://drive.google.com/open?id=1RWZGuJdTYzvR7ZoJPAcTymU5XC2bZYqx simply place it in this location *C:\Users\James\AppData\Roaming\Neural DSP\Fortin Nameless Suite *substituting your user.
The guitars are hard panned left and right, bass middle, drums mix only used. Bass slightly tweaked and drums only had levels set.
Thats it!
And here's the result...

· *Nameless Deliverance 1 Band Mixed (EQ)*
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1-jtsxWWGaGudqBYIla7pGQCMvSldSTiO

· *Nameless Deliverance 1 Band Raw (NO EQ)*
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1go0aus9N4EiqeUGIatWogInRuqjhcYaD

· *Nameless Deliverance 1 Guitars Mixed (EQ)*
https://drive.google.com/open?id=130_xxHRpQUr7HQ2jWqqR8nbUFzr_fSZN

· *Nameless Deliverance 1 Guitars Raw (NO EQ)*
https://drive.google.com/open?id=15KPLb2XsFA37RmhGNR8LUamACdVqnEsG

The post-processing on the mix versions is extremely light and simply adds some sparkle. The preset provided you will find is without additional boosts and may come across quite under driven so it will require a player to really dig in. Alternatively it provides dynamics and does not require any kind of gating.

Let me know what you think, I'm James and all the best!


----------



## Andrew Lloyd Webber

Can I get my trial extended if I don’t have a James folder?


----------



## Flappydoodle

axxessdenied said:


> Here's all the amp sims going through the Fortin Nameless cab section!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good points. I was planning on doing a video with my thoughts after these comparisons so I'll probably add that info to it!
> 
> But, I can answer your questions aside from posting the DI atm:
> 2. Elixir Optiwebs 10-46. Guitar is in Drop C right now but it might have still been in Drop C# when I recorded the DI. The guitar is a 24.75" scale. Strings are probably about a month old and surprisingly still bright.
> 3. I'm using https://www.covenantcables.com/ I have a coil-cable from him that he doesn't appear to have listed on the site atm. Guitar was going into a Sonic Research Turbo Tuner ST-300 > Fortin Zuul Noise Gate > Revv G3 (bypassed) and direct into my RME Babyface Pro. I have a Radial JDI but I find the RME has a great DI so no point in adding an extra thing to my signal chain. I use it more now to split my signal to my amp and DI at the same time.
> 4. I'm using a Winspear Instrumental Resin Shiv ... playing style.. um myself? lol
> 5. Bareknuckle Pickups Aristides Customs




Fortin sounds the best. 

Emissary sounds great. 

TSE X50 definitely needs the tube screamer enabled to get rid of the 5150 block letter flub. (Sounds authentic though)

5153 sounded second best after the Fortin. It's tighter, still has attack, not too much fizz.

Some of them were horrible.


----------



## axxessdenied

Flappydoodle said:


> Fortin sounds the best.
> 
> Emissary sounds great.
> 
> TSE X50 definitely needs the tube screamer enabled to get rid of the 5150 block letter flub. (Sounds authentic though)
> 
> 5153 sounded second best after the Fortin. It's tighter, still has attack, not too much fizz.
> 
> Some of them were horrible.


Yeah, some of them are definitely more usable than others. Might just be the wrong IRs for that particular sim though!

did a hard rock cover with the fortin. some soad:




I also recorded a cover of Royal Beggars by Architects. that one is coming out tomorrow


----------



## Steinmetzify

Fortin L, ReAxis R, Amplitube Orange for bass, EZD2 for beats...some Crowbar.

https://soundcloud.com/steinmetzify/tbamii


----------



## Smoked Porter

steinmetzify said:


> Fortin L, ReAxis R, Amplitube Orange for bass, EZD2 for beats...some Crowbar.
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/steinmetzify/tbamii


Gotdayum, that sounds really good, and your actual playing was nice to listen to. Was that with stock IRs or third party?


----------



## Steinmetzify

Smoked Porter said:


> Gotdayum, that sounds really good, and your actual playing was nice to listen to. Was that with stock IRs or third party?



Just stock; I went down the IR rabbit hole for a few years and have something like 25,000 of em lol....most of the time I can’t be bothered to use them anymore. 

The IRS in ReAxis are pretty good, and I like using both mics in Nameless too, really thickens it up. 

Thanks man!


----------



## EvilDragon

axxessdenied said:


> There is a much lower noise floor because of the extremely good drivers that RME is known for.



I'd like to correct this statement. Drivers have nothing to do with the noise floor. Preamps have everything to do with the noise floor. Drivers have to do with latency and overall stability of the system at your specified latency - and THIS is where it's at with RME. Simply the best drivers in the biz. Bar none. Got myself UFX+ which I needed because it can be expanded to LOTS of inputs via ADAT and MADI, since I have a lot of racked synths I like to use, it's perfect for that.


On topic: Neural DSP is doing a helluva great job, and Fortin Nameless sounds great, but in all honesty, I'm not hearing anything groundbreakingly new that Thermionik, Mercuriall ReAxis, Kuassa Creme or indeed Ignite Amps freebies cannot do (and Ignite Amps dudes also build amps as well, they for sure know their shit and it can easily be heard in their plugins as well) - and all of these don't use iLok (which might be an important decision factor for some). Certainly a good color to add to your plugin toolkit, but the one to rule them all? I think not.


----------



## axxessdenied

I bet drivers have something to do with how your interface picks up interference from the PC itself. Either way. I traded two guitars in to get an RME Babyface Pro when my Firestudio Project was giving me too much headache and it's one of the best decisions I could make. I'm eventually going to get a big rack version because I could definitely use more inputs as I'm looking to record modular synth with multiple sources coming in and I want to be able to record them to separate stems versus running into a mixer like I currently do. But being forced to commit decisions is really fun as it makes you more critical of your decisions.

I think in terms of tone other amp sims come pretty close but when it comes to overall feel and how the notes decay the fortin is definitely way more inspiring to play and I think that is what separates good from great.


----------



## EvilDragon

axxessdenied said:


> I bet drivers have something to do with how your interface picks up interference from the PC itself.



Absolutely not. Drivers are just instructions for OS that explain how to talk to the hardware that was added, what type of hardware it is, what it does, and how fast (with what priority) to do those things. Nothing to do with interference (and if you have an external audio interface, interference is not any of your concerns anyways).




axxessdenied said:


> I think in terms of tone other amp sims come pretty close but when it comes to overall feel and how the notes decay the fortin is definitely way more inspiring to play and I think that is what separates good from great.



Yes, there's the feel factor. IMHO, both Thermionik and S-Gear 2 are absolutely stellar in this regard, and are a joy to play (the most recent Kuassa Caliburn ticks that same box as well), so as far as I'm concerned, Fortin Nameless is just as good as them. It doesn't "feel" leaps and bounds better than those others that I listed, it responds as you'd expect (just like how Thermionik and others listed do, too).


----------



## axxessdenied

Did a cover of the architects new song. I did the programming at like 3 am so the drums are missing some of the lighter hits but whatever lol
25.5" F# lol


----------



## axxessdenied

EvilDragon said:


> Absolutely not. Drivers are just instructions for OS that explain how to talk to the hardware that was added, what type of hardware it is, what it does, and how fast (with what priority) to do those things. Nothing to do with interference (and if you have an external audio interface, interference is not any of your concerns anyways).


I had a presonus firestudio project that suffered from picking up interference from the PC a lot. maybe it was purely hardware. I dunno. I do know one thing. The presonus drivers were always trash on windows, lmao. What a godsend the RME is. I know one of the reasons that the RME drivers are fantastic is that most of the operations are performed hardware side so your actual CPU isn't doing much processing. That's probably where the great latency comes from.


----------



## EvilDragon

axxessdenied said:


> I had a presonus firestudio project that suffered from picking up interference from the PC a lot. maybe it was purely hardware.



Interferences are ALWAYS hardware-based. Drivers are software, they have NOTHING to do with interference. It could've been the PSU, it could've been bad grounding on the USB port (very common issue)...



axxessdenied said:


> I know one of the reasons that the RME drivers are fantastic is that most of the operations are performed hardware side so your actual CPU isn't doing much processing.



Heh, this is also wrong.  Your CPU is always doing processing. Your plugins are ALL processed by the CPU - RME is not doing any of that (well, unless you run a hardware DSP platform like UAD, then UAD plugins are offloaded to their own DSP chips and your CPU is free for other things - but you're not doing that here). It's simply well written drivers that are super-optimized (hence your OS's DEALING with those drivers is going to use a BIT less CPU than drivers of most other audio interface vendors), and their own programming for USB/Firewire/Thunderbolt controllers via FPGA chips (instead of using generic off-the-shelf controllers anyone else can buy).


----------



## axxessdenied

I'm speaking in terms of hardware and pc talking to each other via the driver.



> Our high-performance philosophy guarantees maximum system performance by executing as many functions as possible not in the driver (i.e. the CPU), but directly within the audio hardware.


----------



## EvilDragon

Yes, that still has no bearing on actual audio processing done by any of your plugins in your DAW - this is still done on your CPU!

That just means you can do basic EQ and basic compression for each channel individually before the signal hits your DAW for recording, using TotalMixFX - that's all done in RME's hardware (but of course, the compressor is purely digital, so it won't actually prevent your inputs from hard digital clipping of the ADC like a hardware compressor/limiter would, so always set your inputs properly!). This stuff is useful (for example) when doing live mixing with RME gear - you even have a delay and reverb FX and all channels send to that. Of course, it's not exactly the highest quality reverb, but it's there.

In general, though, I don't use any of those TotalMixFX features (are you?). Just straight from input into DAW and to the disk. No faffing around.


----------



## Flappydoodle

EvilDragon said:


> Interferences are ALWAYS hardware-based. Drivers are software, they have NOTHING to do with interference. It could've been the PSU, it could've been bad grounding on the USB port (very common issue)...
> 
> 
> 
> Heh, this is also wrong.  Your CPU is always doing processing. Your plugins are ALL processed by the CPU - RME is not doing any of that (well, unless you run a hardware DSP platform like UAD, then UAD plugins are offloaded to their own DSP chips and your CPU is free for other things - but you're not doing that here). It's simply well written drivers that are super-optimized (hence your OS's DEALING with those drivers is going to use a BIT less CPU than drivers of most other audio interface vendors), and their own programming for USB/Firewire/Thunderbolt controllers via FPGA chips (instead of using generic off-the-shelf controllers anyone else can buy).



I have a question related to this.

When I use my shitty old interface (iRig HD), hooked up by USB to my Mac running Logic, I get around 20ms of latency for the guitar signal. But when I use my nicer interface (Apogee Duet) the latency for the exact same project, same settings, is around 5ms. 

Is that just due to efficient drivers, rather than superior hardware? To my knowledge, both of them are using Apple core audio.


----------



## TheComplainingGamer

axxessdenied said:


> The Audient ID4 seems to have great sound. I would just look into the latency on it before diving in. I'm sure it was just a driver issue and was taken care of by now.



I took the plunge and picked up the Audient iD4 and HOLY SHIT, the difference between the Audient iD4 and the Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 (Gen1) is night and day. The clarity of the Audient DI thanks to the preamp they use literally left me inspired and noodling for hours. Notes resonate and are delivered transparently, especially on clean sounds. It seems the Scarlett was forcing me to compensate tonally in many different areas.

Not only that Audient have definitely fixed any latency issues of the past with their current drivers and firmware capable of delivering remarkable low numbers in the region of 1-3ms now going down to 16 samples. I'm not sure about the full round trip time but when monitoring both daw and real-time there was no obvious delay between the two sources.

NO MORE POPPING with the Audient iD4, Focusrite Scarlett drivers are absolute dogshit and always have been for years and still are to this day, at least for me on gen1, maybe someone else can offer their 2 cents for gen2.

Anyway long story short, I'm really happy with the iD4 and it may just be the best (cheapest) interface in the market today. It lacks midi, and Burr Brown D/A converters found on its bigger brothers like the iD14 and above but it still sounds fantastic to my ears. Audient say that the iD4 uses AKM converters.

As someone who is purely looking for a transparent electric guitar DI signal I don't think you can go wrong with the iD4.


----------



## EvilDragon

Flappydoodle said:


> I have a question related to this.
> 
> When I use my shitty old interface (iRig HD), hooked up by USB to my Mac running Logic, I get around 20ms of latency for the guitar signal. But when I use my nicer interface (Apogee Duet) the latency for the exact same project, same settings, is around 5ms.
> 
> Is that just due to efficient drivers, rather than superior hardware? To my knowledge, both of them are using Apple core audio.



If CoreAudio is taking care of both, then it's obvious that hardware is better on the Apogee (plus Apogee used to be quite Mac-centric all the way until recently, so that is also a factor for sure).


----------



## hvdh

[QUOTE="EvilDragon, post: 4925844, member: 90221" *indeed Ignite Amps freebies cannot do (and Ignite Amps dudes also build amps as well, they for sure know their shit and it can easily be heard in their plugins as well) - and all of these don't use *[/QUOTE]

SOOOOOOO CORRECT


----------



## EvilDragon

Partial quotes are the devil.


----------



## Flappydoodle

EvilDragon said:


> If CoreAudio is taking care of both, then it's obvious that hardware is better on the Apogee (plus Apogee used to be quite Mac-centric all the way until recently, so that is also a factor for sure).



But how does the hardware being "better" result in lower latency?

I can understand better hardware having less noise, or having a more balanced frequency response, being able to handle hotter signals etc. But I thought latency was all about processing power and nothing else.


----------



## TheComplainingGamer

EvilDragon said:


> (Apogee used to be quite Mac-centric all the way until recently, so that is also a factor for sure).



When recently researching interfaces I noticed that Apogee now support PC as opposed to solely Mac like of the past. My recent best/cheap search took me to two interfaces, the Apogee One and Audient iD4. Ultimately I went with Audient due to the mixture of preamp and price and I couldn't be happier, although I have no doubt that Apogee have excellent preamps.

To bring things a bit back on track Fortin Nameless is quite the CPU hog, especially as you start to introduce multiple instances set to high quality.


----------



## Steinmetzify

Nameless doing KsE

https://soundcloud.com/steinmetzify/namelessreaxiskse


----------



## axxessdenied

Flappydoodle said:


> But how does the hardware being "better" result in lower latency?
> 
> I can understand better hardware having less noise, or having a more balanced frequency response, being able to handle hotter signals etc. But I thought latency was all about processing power and nothing else.


There are still drivers involved for each specific device. Yes, CoreAudio is used by both devices. But, they are probably both using custom versions of CoreAudio drivers specific to the hardware.
on top of that the hardware does make a difference too since your digital-to-analog and analog-to-digital converters have their own buffers which adds to the round-trip of your audio signal.


----------



## EvilDragon

Flappydoodle said:


> But how does the hardware being "better" result in lower latency?
> 
> I can understand better hardware having less noise, or having a more balanced frequency response, being able to handle hotter signals etc. But I thought latency was all about processing power and nothing else.



Different ADCs/DACs have different latencies (although this is usually very small, on the order of <10 samples). Different USB controllers are the same. It piles up eventually.

It can also very well be that a particular device doesn't gel well with CoreAudio (or vice versa).


----------



## AaronGraves

https://soundcloud.com/aaron-graves/fortin-nameless-suite-and-shreddage-bass-test

Custom Schecter Tempest w/ Seymour Duncan P90s -> Scarlett 2i4 -> Reaper


----------



## gunch

So if I were to buy one VST plugin and one only, would it be this or Reaxis/Spark?


----------



## Steinmetzify

silverabyss said:


> So if I were to buy one VST plugin and one only, would it be this or Reaxis/Spark?



Depends on what you’re into most; if you love Mesa tones then ReAxis is obviously the better choice. If you want a large variety of Marshall tones Spark is good, if you want all out brutality Nameless is badass. 

All are good and about on the same level, and I’m saying this as a Mercuriall fanboy. Nameless sounds great right out of the box to my ears; move the mics off the cone a bit and you’ve got a completely great tone that totally cuts thru a mix. 

I wasn’t a huge fan of the cab sim, my preferred way to use Nameless was with the cab turned off and using the cabs/FX in ReAxis, it just felt more familiar to me.


----------



## Flappydoodle

silverabyss said:


> So if I were to buy one VST plugin and one only, would it be this or Reaxis/Spark?



What type of music?


----------



## gunch

Flappydoodle said:


> What type of music?



Mostly noisy/heavy genres like death metal, grind, sludge


----------



## Metropolis

silverabyss said:


> Mostly noisy/heavy genres like death metal, grind, sludge



If you don't need a channel with most clean possible sound, buy Fortin... at least I would, because it can sound quite mean and brutal. Why not to try them first, all of them have free demo versions available.


----------



## Flappydoodle

silverabyss said:


> Mostly noisy/heavy genres like death metal, grind, sludge



Fortin definitely has more brutality than the others, so that would be my first choice from the ones you listed

ReAxis is for a Mesa Triaxis sound. Personally, not my cup of tea.

Spark is more classic Marshall tones. Probably not what you're looking for.

Another plugin to consider would be TSE X50. It's a 5150 emulation, and sounds great and includes lots of commercial impulse responses. 5150 can definitely cover the genres you want.


----------



## axxessdenied

Metropolis said:


> If you don't need a channel with most clean possible sound, buy Fortin... at least I would, because it can sound quite mean and brutal. Why not to try them first, all of them have free demo versions available.


You can do clean tones no problem with the fortin suite as well


----------



## Doug Castro

First post!

I'm Doug from Neural DSP. First of all thank you for all the support and useful feedback!

I wanted to let you know that we've added a standalone feature as a free upgrade as of 15 minutes ago.

Any questions, don't hesitate to let me know.


----------



## Flappydoodle

Doug Castro said:


> First post!
> 
> I'm Doug from Neural DSP. First of all thank you for all the support and useful feedback!
> 
> I wanted to let you know that we've added a standalone feature as a free upgrade as of 15 minutes ago.
> 
> Any questions, don't hesitate to let me know.



I don't know how possible it is, but can updates be done automatically within the app/plugin?

Currently, we need to see somewhere online that there's a new version, go to your website and download the installer, then mess around with overwriting whichever version we have. For some of us, the installer puts things in non-default places (A folder called plug-ins instead of Plug-ins, lol).

It's amazing that you're updating and adding so many features to existing products. The cab section for Darkglass is absolutely incredible. It would just be a much nicer process if updates could pop up during the app and be a one-click install kinda thing.


----------



## Doug Castro

Flappydoodle said:


> I don't know how possible it is, but can updates be done automatically within the app/plugin?
> 
> Currently, we need to see somewhere online that there's a new version, go to your website and download the installer, then mess around with overwriting whichever version we have. For some of us, the installer puts things in non-default places (A folder called plug-ins instead of Plug-ins, lol).
> 
> It's amazing that you're updating and adding so many features to existing products. The cab section for Darkglass is absolutely incredible. It would just be a much nicer process if updates could pop up during the app and be a one-click install kinda thing.



Hi, thank you for the feedback. 

That is possible but not trivial to execute (a ton of back-end coding needs to be done, in-app serial validation, etc.).

We will probably put some people to work on it soonish, as I believe in making all processes as painless as possible for you guys.

It might take a while, but we will be looking into it.


----------



## Kaura

Doug Castro said:


> First post!
> 
> I'm Doug from Neural DSP. First of all thank you for all the support and useful feedback!
> 
> I wanted to let you know that we've added a standalone feature as a free upgrade as of 15 minutes ago.
> 
> Any questions, don't hesitate to let me know.



First of all, thanks for the amazing products! Both the FNS and the Darkglass Ultra are my #1 favorite plugins. I just want to ask that is there any new products being worked on/planned at the moment? Because I really hope so! 

Also, more of an suggestion but as much as I love the Grind pedal in the FNS. I think a more traditional overdrive pedal would be a nice option to make the plugin more versatile. Sure, I could just use an overdrive from some other plugin but I trust that you guys would come up with something better sounding than your competitors.


----------



## Doug Castro

Kaura said:


> First of all, thanks for the amazing products! Both the FNS and the Darkglass Ultra are my #1 favorite plugins. I just want to ask that is there any new products being worked on/planned at the moment? Because I really hope so!
> 
> Also, more of an suggestion but as much as I love the Grind pedal in the FNS. I think a more traditional overdrive pedal would be a nice option to make the plugin more versatile. Sure, I could just use an overdrive from some other plugin but I trust that you guys would come up with something better sounding than your competitors.



On the overdrive. Yeah, we have had similar feedback from others, and you probably know by now that we do listen .

As for new products, you bet! The massive success that’s been the Nameless has only allowed us to push harder and aim even higher. 

Tons of cool stuff in the works! 

Thanks again for the kind words, feedback and support.

Doug.


----------



## Flappydoodle

Doug Castro said:


> Hi, thank you for the feedback.
> 
> That is possible but not trivial to execute (a ton of back-end coding needs to be done, in-app serial validation, etc.).
> 
> We will probably put some people to work on it soonish, as I believe in making all processes as painless as possible for you guys.
> 
> It might take a while, but we will be looking into it.



Awesome. It would definitely make the process easier, but also makes sure that people are always getting the best of your products. I will bet there are a good % of your users who still have whatever version they initially downloaded, and they're missing out on cab sims for Darkglass, noise gate for Fortin etc.

I also strongly second the comments from others that the Grind is a love/hate thing. Personally, I disable it, and use a tube screamer emulation in front of the plugin. Obviously for the standalone, if you can incorporate a TS808 or something like it, that would be the absolute best.

Edit: Just jammed the standalone and realised how much I miss having some slight reverb...


----------



## Lorcan Ward

Welcome to the forum Doug!

The best thing about the Nameless Suite is it's made it so much easier to dial in a good tone and as a result people are making so much music with it. Wrestling with hi-gain tones from amp sims can be exhausting so a plug-in like this is a godsend. Thanks to all your team for putting in all the work!! We are really looking forward to what's next.


----------



## Elric

Feedback: Your plugin is extremely CPU hungry compared to my other plugins. That said, it sounds solid. You should fix the graphic representation of the mics on the cabinet. According to ML sound lab (who shot the cabs) the GUI is deceptive and it led many people to think it was overly bright because normal mic positions don't work if you are judging by the GUI.


----------



## Doug Castro

Elric said:


> Feedback: Your plugin is extremely CPU hungry compared to my other plugins. That said, it sounds solid. You should fix the graphic representation of the mics on the cabinet. According to ML sound lab (who shot the cabs) the GUI is deceptive and it led many people to think it was overly bright because normal mic positions don't work if you are judging by the GUI.



Thanks for the feedback.

It is CPU hungry because of our full circuit model, which is what makes the plugin feel so amp-like in comparison to other sims, the beta version required twice as much actually. We optimized a lot by replacing generic equation solvers and rewriting the whole convolution class from scratch. 

We are trying to further optimize things here and there, but the amount of real-time calculations needed to have a model that accurately behaves like an analog one (with all the appropriate interaction between the tube stages, output transformer and reactive loads, etc.) mean higher CPU consumption.

And we will always prioritize accuracy to computational requirement optimization. 
The bet is that this will be less of a problem with computing power increasing over time.

As for the cab mic representation, the decision was to make the mics easy to set up, and the current implementation offers a better resolution in the center/edge area.
Regards,
D.


----------



## Doug Castro

Lorcan Ward said:


> Welcome to the forum Doug!
> 
> The best thing about the Nameless Suite is it's made it so much easier to dial in a good tone and as a result people are making so much music with it. Wrestling with hi-gain tones from amp sims can be exhausting so a plug-in like this is a godsend. Thanks to all your team for putting in all the work!! We are really looking forward to what's next.



Thank you!



Flappydoodle said:


> Awesome. It would definitely make the process easier, but also makes sure that people are always getting the best of your products. I will bet there are a good % of your users who still have whatever version they initially downloaded, and they're missing out on cab sims for Darkglass, noise gate for Fortin etc.
> 
> I also strongly second the comments from others that the Grind is a love/hate thing. Personally, I disable it, and use a tube screamer emulation in front of the plugin. Obviously for the standalone, if you can incorporate a TS808 or something like it, that would be the absolute best.
> 
> Edit: Just jammed the standalone and realised how much I miss having some slight reverb...



Thanks! Yeah, I agree. I am very satisfied with the current state of our DSP development, which was the focus was: to acquire world-class modeling know-how.
Now there is a lot of work to do on what goes on around the algorithms, to improve usability and ease of access to improvements and other features within the plugin.

Don't worry, I am quite adamant on pushing the envelope, and we’re pushing super hard to make the best products we possibly can.


----------



## axxessdenied

Welcome to the forum, Doug 
Great job on the amp sim. Looking forward to future products from you guys.

If I had a suggestion to make I think I would make the grind be turned off by default. Maybe add some helper overlays that can be turned off/on in the settings menu that would help explain or give recommendations on how to dial in each knob for people that are unfamiliar with the process. You could do like an optional mini-tutorial on the first run to help people out. Just a thought! 

I'm currently having withdrawals from the plugin because my iLok died and I just sent it off to get my licenses recovered, lol! Back to playing a real amp, I guess.


----------



## Neural DSP

axxessdenied said:


> Welcome to the forum, Doug
> Great job on the amp sim. Looking forward to future products from you guys.
> 
> If I had a suggestion to make I think I would make the grind be turned off by default. Maybe add some helper overlays that can be turned off/on in the settings menu that would help explain or give recommendations on how to dial in each knob for people that are unfamiliar with the process. You could do like an optional mini-tutorial on the first run to help people out. Just a thought!
> 
> I'm currently having withdrawals from the plugin because my iLok died and I just sent it off to get my licenses recovered, lol! Back to playing a real amp, I guess.



Hello guys! 

It is very difficult to decide on a default setting since it will never work for everyone, but we think we can release a pack of presets that will help people get faster through some tones. 
About your license, you should have 3 activations. If you activated 1 of them on your iLok, you should still have 2 left. You can activate it on your computer and keep using it! Let us know!

Thank you.


----------



## Elric

Thanks for representing here, @Doug Castro and @Neural DSP can't wait to see what you cook up next. Appreciate the addition of the stand alone app and your willingness to provide updates and new versions after the sale.


----------



## alessandroarzilli

It's definitely a great plugin.
Its sound is very neat, compared to other plugins. It's ready for the mix, while with the other ones you usually have to set them all up quite a bit. I've only tried the the trial version, had a bit of difficulties registering with that Lock-like license manager, but then managed to make it work perfectly. Now I'm waiting for some $$$ to build a new home studio PC and the nameless will be for sure my first buy.
I did a quick test review on my youtube channel, (maybe I can link it here? sorry if not) comparing it to bias fx and emissary by ignite amps.


----------



## DropTheSun

I had to buy this. I HAD TO! Easily the best Guitar Plugin I've ever tried. I primaly use Fractal AX8, but man this is in the same league and so easy to get great tones out of it! Well done Neural DSP! 

https://soundcloud.com/dead-queens/fortin-4

https://soundcloud.com/dead-queens/fortin-3


----------



## LeviathanKiller

Man, I'm thinking about getting the Fortin NTS plugin.

I have an Axe-Fx III. What am I doing?


----------



## Vyn

LeviathanKiller said:


> Man, I'm thinking about getting the Fortin NTS plugin.
> 
> I have an Axe-Fx III. What am I doing?



The right thing


----------



## Ericjutsu

Would you guys say the Neural DSP stuff is on par with Axe FX?


----------



## Lorcan Ward

Definitely! It gives me hope for a Fractal plug-in in the future seeing as how accurate Neural DSP are.


----------



## Ericjutsu

Lorcan Ward said:


> Definitely! It gives me hope for a Fractal plug-in in the future seeing as how accurate Neural DSP are.


What do you think of Mercurial? I like the Neural DSP stuff but wish they had more than just Fortin for guitar.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

Lorcan Ward said:


> Definitely! It gives me hope for a Fractal plug-in in the future seeing as how accurate Neural DSP are.



I don't think Fractal's reasoning was not being able to but rather not wanting it to be pirated. The only way to prevent piracy 100%, is to not create the software to begin with.


----------



## trem licking

plugins have been on par with axe fx for a while now. lots of good plugs already out there. this is just another amazing option to add to the list


----------



## Ericjutsu

trem licking said:


> plugins have been on par with axe fx for a while now. lots of good plugs already out there. this is just another amazing option to add to the list


which ones would you consider on par with Axe FX?


----------



## trem licking

Ericjutsu said:


> which ones would you consider on par with Axe FX?


Overloud TH3, kazrog, mercuriall, tse, amplitube 4, helix plugin. My favorite is TH3


----------



## LeviathanKiller

Ericjutsu said:


> which ones would you consider on par with Axe FX?





trem licking said:


> Overloud TH3, kazrog, mercuriall, tse, amplitube 4, helix plugin. My favorite is TH3



Having used Kazrog plugins and owning both an Axe-Fx II and III. I disagree very much.
I have used Mercuriall and TSE and they are both really quite good (Mercuriall edges out a bit better in my experiences).
The NeuralDSP Fortin stuff so far sounds and feels really good and I put it up there with the Mercuriall stuff. Top notch in the VST area.
If interference noise weren't an issue, I'd be pretty happy with those a lot of the time.
All that said and I still prefer the Axe-Fx and Kemper I have. I can use the same IRs for everything but those two units still sound better (Axe-Fx beating Kemper).


----------



## Doug Castro

LeviathanKiller said:


> Having used Kazrog plugins and owning both an Axe-Fx II and III. I disagree very much.
> I have used Mercuriall and TSE and they are both really quite good (Mercuriall edges out a bit better in my experiences).
> The NeuralDSP Fortin stuff so far sounds and feels really good and I put it up there with the Mercuriall stuff. Top notch in the VST area.
> If interference noise weren't an issue, I'd be pretty happy with those a lot of the time.
> All that said and I still prefer the Axe-Fx and Kemper I have. I can use the same IRs for everything but those two units still sound better (Axe-Fx beating Kemper).



Hi! Only posting regarding your noise issue, that shouldn't happen: the Nameless Suite should produce as much noise as the real amplifier at similar settings, which should be easily fixed with any noise gate.

If you're experiencing hiss there could be something else going on (sound card or other setup problems)?

I'd love to help.

Kind regards,
Doug.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

Doug Castro said:


> Hi! Only posting regarding your noise issue, that shouldn't happen: the Nameless Suite should produce as much noise as the real amplifier at similar settings, which should be easily fixed with any noise gate.
> 
> If you're experiencing hiss there could be something else going on (sound card or other setup problems)?
> 
> I'd love to help.
> 
> Kind regards,
> Doug.



No, just normal power interference from the PC that I haven't been able to dissolve
Occurs with all of my gear


----------



## Doug Castro

LeviathanKiller said:


> No, just normal power interference from the PC that I haven't been able to dissolve
> Occurs with all of my gear



Ah. Have you tried galvanic isolation from the guitar path to the computer? i.e. a transformer based DI box?


----------



## LeviathanKiller

Doug Castro said:


> Ah. Have you tried galvanic isolation from the guitar path to the computer? i.e. a transformer based DI box?


I have not. I'll see how much it is to try that. Thanks!


----------



## Doug Castro

LeviathanKiller said:


> I have not. I'll see how much it is to try that. Thanks!



Np, a transformer can do wonders with interference as it isolates the signal paths (the guitar signal is transferred electromagnetically from the transformer primary to secondary), pretty neat and useful when dealing with electrical wiring issues.


----------



## axxessdenied

Forgot to share this here.
Drop F with the nameless suite and my new fiddle strictly for the br00tz:


----------



## Neural DSP

Hello guys. 

The Pre Order of our new "Fortin NTS Suite" will be shipped in one and a half hours from now. 

We have been working very hard these last weeks to be able to deliver a great product. 

Thank you all for the support and please let us know what you guys think! 

Thank you.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

I got bored and decided to make some clips showing how nameless works for less modern tones. i used my jackson star straight into my interface and used ownhammer diezel v30 4x12 IRs
standard riffage: https://app.box.com/s/w5m2f9oif3kao7zq2o1fv4jrkv9sxol0
drop d riffage: https://app.box.com/s/gh52h8rrokq0rdzo9a9o87r69aqw8a4c


----------



## ekulggats

What would you guys say are good system specs for running the plugin fully? I have a laptop with a few year old i5 and 8gb ram-


----------



## KnightBrolaire

ekulggats said:


> What would you guys say are good system specs for running the plugin fully? I have a laptop with a few year old i5 and 8gb ram-


it's more ram/cpu intensive than some other plugins but it shouldn't bog you down with those specs


----------



## Kaura

ekulggats said:


> What would you guys say are good system specs for running the plugin fully? I have a laptop with a few year old i5 and 8gb ram-



I have i5-2500K and 8 gigs of RAM and it runs just fine.


----------



## Vyn

Kaura said:


> I have i5-2500K and 8 gigs of RAM and it runs just fine.



Pretty much if you have a mid-high tier 2nd gen onwards i5 and 8 gig of RAM you'll be laughing, especially if running as standalone.


----------



## ekulggats

Rad, thanks guys- about to pull the trigger.


----------



## Flappydoodle

ekulggats said:


> What would you guys say are good system specs for running the plugin fully? I have a laptop with a few year old i5 and 8gb ram-



Download the demo and find out whether it works

And obviously, close any unnecessary background processes and applications


----------



## DropTheSun

Will the Nameless Plugin alert for the new updates automatically or do we have to check new updates from Neural DSP site?

Also any info if the HexDrive pedal would be added for the Nameless Suite as well?


----------



## Kaura

DropTheSun said:


> Will the Nameless Plugin alert for the new updates automatically or do we have to check new updates from Neural DSP site?
> 
> Also any info if the HexDrive pedal would be added for the Nameless Suite as well?



So far the updates have been sent via email as soon as they're up. I think when NTS was announced there was some talk about the Zuul being updated to Nameless Suite. Hopefully they'll add Hexdrive as well.


----------



## Guitarjon

Finally tried the Nameless Suite in a full mix.
This was basically a reamped track that I also did for the Axe Fx III and Helix Native (I'll post those links below as well).

This amp has a very aggressive sound, at least with the Grind pedal on.
To me it does feel like it is very specifically fine-tuned for extended range instruments.
Grind gets aggressive quite quickly but it can work out if that's what you're going for.
Anyway, check out the results here:

Nameless Suite:


And for comparison here is the same track with the Axe Fx III:


Helix Native:


The Nameless Suite is definitely the most 'pokey' of the 3.
Would be interested to know which one you guys enjoyed best sound wise.


----------



## Kaura

Guitarjon said:


> Would be interested to know which one you guys enjoyed best sound wise.



Did you use the same IR for all the videos? I really can't decide which one sounded the best. I think the videos just prove that it pretty much comes down to your own taste with modern modelling technology. If I had to select one, I'd probably pick the Helix because it had most clarity. The Nameless Suite had maybe a bit more presence but I think I was hearing some annoying top-end frequency ringing.


----------



## Guitarjon

Kaura said:


> Did you use the same IR for all the videos? I really can't decide which one sounded the best. I think the videos just prove that it pretty much comes down to your own taste with modern modelling technology. If I had to select one, I'd probably pick the Helix because it had most clarity. The Nameless Suite had maybe a bit more presence but I think I was hearing some annoying top-end frequency ringing.



The Helix and Axe Fx versions use the same IR but I had to use a darker and rounder IR (M+) for the nameless because it's just so bright and scooped...


----------



## Ericjutsu

The Axe FX was the best, followed closely by the Helix. The Nameless suite didn't fit in the mix as well and was too mid rangy.


----------



## mnemonic

Axe FX and Helix did sound a lot better than Nameless there, I think the Nameless tone could have benefited from more saturation and less tightness. Either higher gain on the amp, or a different boost entirely, like a tubescreamer.


----------



## Guitarjon

mnemonic said:


> Axe FX and Helix did sound a lot better than Nameless there, I think the Nameless tone could have benefited from more saturation and less tightness. Either higher gain on the amp, or a different boost entirely, like a tubescreamer.



Totally agree! That plugin needs an extra boost because the Grind is so extreme.
I think they'll add one though....


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Actually kinda dug the Nameless there. Helix was also great. The Axe felt a wee bit too boxy?

I can see what people mean about the tone. But I grew up listening to Iced Earth so I dig that kinda tone.  Also the Full Shred tends to be a bright, dry pickup, so it might also be exacerbating things in the low end department.



Guitarjon said:


> Totally agree! That plugin needs an extra boost because the Grind is so extreme.
> I think they'll add one though....



They talked about adding one after they did it with the NTS, I believe.


----------



## gunch

Nameless sounded a little clanky yeah but the sus2 chords sound so nice


----------



## ekulggats

Helix sounded pretty good. Albeit with a 3rd party IR... it can't be that hard to include some usable ones on the unit, its the main reason I will not buy one.

*A different note- Got the Nameless running on my comp finally. Tone is hella good, as expected. But I am experiencing enough latency to make it difficult to track (reaper). Sounds like a slapback delay... when there aint supposed to be one. Anyone know what to do to minimize it? I have an 'alright' I5 and 8gb ram in my laptop... Would getting better computer spec do anything to reduce latency? Focusrite 2i2 out front if that helps.


----------



## Ericjutsu

ekulggats said:


> Helix sounded pretty good. Albeit with a 3rd party IR... it can't be that hard to include some usable ones on the unit, its the main reason I will not buy one.
> 
> *A different note- Got the Nameless running on my comp finally. Tone is hella good, as expected. But I am experiencing enough latency to make it difficult to track (reaper). Sounds like a slapback delay... when there aint supposed to be one. Anyone know what to do to minimize it? I have an 'alright' I5 and 8gb ram in my laptop... Would getting better computer spec do anything to reduce latency? Focusrite 2i2 out front if that helps.



What is your buffer size when using it?


----------



## TerminalFunction

Hey guys and gals!

Thought I'd share with you a couple of videos I made with the awesome Fortin/Neural amps in a full mix setting.

First up is the Nameless:



Just for jamming and noodling, I think the Nameless is my favorite. It's such a mean sounding beast, but it tends to get a bit drowned in a full mix, comparing to the NTS with its more natural midrange sound. 



Here's the NTS version. In a mix, it just sits nicely and pops through. In our original released version, the guitar sound is actually closer to this (on the record we used a blend of EVH 5153 lunchbox and a MESA TriAxis). 

Which one do you prefer?


----------



## Doug Castro

Guitarjon said:


> Finally tried the Nameless Suite in a full mix.
> This was basically a reamped track that I also did for the Axe Fx III and Helix Native (I'll post those links below as well).
> 
> This amp has a very aggressive sound, at least with the Grind pedal on.
> To me it does feel like it is very specifically fine-tuned for extended range instruments.
> Grind gets aggressive quite quickly but it can work out if that's what you're going for.
> Anyway, check out the results here:
> 
> Nameless Suite:
> 
> 
> And for comparison here is the same track with the Axe Fx III:
> 
> 
> Helix Native:
> 
> 
> The Nameless Suite is definitely the most 'pokey' of the 3.
> Would be interested to know which one you guys enjoyed best sound wise.




Hi man! Thank you for the videos! 

The NTS is capable of much thicker sounds, which is why we chose this amp to be next, as it does very well things that the amp the Nameless was modeled after was not specifically designed for.

You can also use the Hex Drive in it to drive the Nameless if you’d like to try it with a more conventional booster while we add the Zuul and Hex Drive pedals to it.


----------



## Doug Castro

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Actually kinda dug the Nameless there. Helix was also great. The Axe felt a wee bit too boxy?
> 
> I can see what people mean about the tone. But I grew up listening to Iced Earth so I dig that kinda tone.  Also the Full Shred tends to be a bright, dry pickup, so it might also be exacerbating things in the low end department.
> 
> 
> 
> They talked about adding one after they did it with the NTS, I believe.



Yes, we are working on it at the moment .


----------



## Doug Castro

ekulggats said:


> Helix sounded pretty good. Albeit with a 3rd party IR... it can't be that hard to include some usable ones on the unit, its the main reason I will not buy one.
> 
> *A different note- Got the Nameless running on my comp finally. Tone is hella good, as expected. But I am experiencing enough latency to make it difficult to track (reaper). Sounds like a slapback delay... when there aint supposed to be one. Anyone know what to do to minimize it? I have an 'alright' I5 and 8gb ram in my laptop... Would getting better computer spec do anything to reduce latency? Focusrite 2i2 out front if that helps.



Hey man! If you email our support guys they’ll get you running in no time: [email protected].


----------



## Doug Castro

TerminalFunction said:


> Hey guys and gals!
> 
> Thought I'd share with you a couple of videos I made with the awesome Fortin/Neural amps in a full mix setting.
> 
> First up is the Nameless:
> 
> 
> 
> Just for jamming and noodling, I think the Nameless is my favorite. It's such a mean sounding beast, but it tends to get a bit drowned in a full mix, comparing to the NTS with its more natural midrange sound.
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the NTS version. In a mix, it just sits nicely and pops through. In our original released version, the guitar sound is actually closer to this (on the record we used a blend of EVH 5153 lunchbox and a MESA TriAxis).
> 
> Which one do you prefer?




Nice videos, thank you!


----------



## TerminalFunction

Thanks mate. Glad you like them!


----------



## ML Sound Lab

I thought I'd join this forum since I keep being mentioned in many of the threads, especially this one. It's very interesting to see people virtually mic up my personal cabinet and making it sound amazing. Keep it up guys and if you have any questions, shoot!


----------



## Lorcan Ward

Welcome to the forum, long time fan of your work.


----------



## AlmaMater

Hi guys,

I started to test this plugin and I love it so far. I do also have a noise issue which you can hear here:


I thought it was maybe my interface (UR22 MKII) but seems it is a known issue? When using the grind pedal ?


----------



## Neural DSP

AlmaMater said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I started to test this plugin and I love it so far. I do also have a noise issue which you can hear here:
> 
> 
> I thought it was maybe my interface (UR22 MKII) but seems it is a known issue? When using the grind pedal ?





Hello! 

That sounds like an issue with your interface or grounding. For further assistance please contact our support team at [email protected]. They will help you right away! 

Also, we will be releasing an update for the Nameless Suite on Wednesday 13th of March, including the Zuul, Hexdrive pedals, some improvements on the Algorithm itself and some surprises! 

Thank you guys for all your support!


----------



## AlmaMater

Neural DSP said:


> Hello!
> 
> That sounds like an issue with your interface or grounding. For further assistance please contact our support team at [email protected]. They will help you right away!
> 
> Also, we will be releasing an update for the Nameless Suite on Wednesday 13th of March, including the Zuul, Hexdrive pedals, some improvements on the Algorithm itself and some surprises!
> 
> Thank you guys for all your support!



Thanks!

Yes, support is helping me since everything indicates to be an issue on my side.

Killer plugin! Definitely will buy it once I fix my sound issues!

Cheers


----------



## HjR

Fortin Nameless Suite brings you the heaviest chugs from your computer, no doubt!


----------



## Doug Castro

It's finally here!

The updated Suite is now available as a free update to all users.

https://neuraldsp.com/products/fortin-nameless-plugin/

Looking forward to hearing what you think.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

It's great you guys are listening to customer suggestions and implementing them so quick.


----------



## Doug Castro

Lorcan Ward said:


> It's great you guys are listening to customer suggestions and implementing them so quick.



Thanks and of course!

We are just getting warmed up. 

We want you guys to know that whatever it is you chose to but from us, will only get better with time.


----------



## Deformance

Loving the Fortin plugin, eager to try out the new version (2.0.0) later today.
But I was wondering, does a place already exist where (custom) presets are actively shared? 
I'd love to increase the amount of different sounds I have and to have access to various tones.


----------



## Neural DSP

We are working on it. 

For now, Facebook Neural Users Group can be a start. 

You can find your presets in the Magnifying glass icon within the plugin and just send the .XML file to your friends. 

To import, just drag and drop it on the plugin. 

Thank you for your kind words!


----------



## AlmaMater

Neural DSP said:


> Hello!
> 
> That sounds like an issue with your interface or grounding. For further assistance please contact our support team at [email protected]. They will help you right away!
> 
> Also, we will be releasing an update for the Nameless Suite on Wednesday 13th of March, including the Zuul, Hexdrive pedals, some improvements on the Algorithm itself and some surprises!
> 
> Thank you guys for all your support!



Just a follow up on this in case anybody experience the same issue as me.

At the end it was caused by my desktop tower PC (My pickups were picking all the static electric noise [EMGs]). Weird thing is that when using another plugin such as BIAS FX for example the noise was not there so it might be that Fortin does uses different frequencies that makes this noise more audible?

Anyway, moving the desktop to another place solved the issue entirely.

I just want to mention that Fortin support is really great, they did help me with a lot of ideas even if I have not buy anything yet from them!

Totally recommended!

Cheers


----------



## Kaura

AlmaMater said:


> Just a follow up on this in case anybody experience the same issue as me.
> 
> At the end it was caused by my desktop tower PC (My pickups were picking all the static electric noise [EMGs]). Weird thing is that when using another plugin such as BIAS FX for example the noise was not there so it might be that Fortin does uses different frequencies that makes this noise more audible?
> 
> Anyway, moving the desktop to another place solved the issue entirely.
> 
> I just want to mention that Fortin support is really great, they did help me with a lot of ideas even if I have not buy anything yet from them!
> 
> Totally recommended!
> 
> Cheers



Hey, could you give more information where your PC was and is now? I'm also experiencing more ground noise with Nameless Suite than any other amp plugin out there.


----------



## Doug Castro

Actually many (if not most) plugins have "hidden" gates, Guitar Rig for example.

A good test is to see if the noise goes away when setting the guitar volume knob to zero, then the problem is msot likely elsewhere.

If you're experiencing noise that's being amplifier from the pickups, you can use either of the gates in the plugin.

Moving around the room (facing away from screens and fluorecent tubes/lamps) can help a lot as well.


----------



## AlmaMater

Kaura said:


> Hey, could you give more information where your PC was and is now? I'm also experiencing more ground noise with Nameless Suite than any other amp plugin out there.



I move it here:












IMG_20190316_125425



__ AlmaMater
__ Mar 16, 2019






Before that it was in the floor where the 2nd monitor is located.

As Doug says, a noise gate is helpful but in this case the electronic noise (Like old TV white noise) was so loud that even with 2 noise gates it was not possible to play. If I set the volume to zero, then no electronic noise is present.

@Kaura if you want to make sure that in your case it is also the tower and not the monitor or lights, etc. Turn on the volume with high gain on the Nameless plugin, and start moving your pickups near the tower. If you found that the noise you are experience get triplicated, then it might be the cause. Please be aware that before I got to that conclusion I discarded basically anything else that I could control in my environment (Turned off/disconnected monitors & light, moved the power cable of the PC to another outlet, used a DI box, changed battery in the pickups)

But now that I have the tower in that position, no electronic noise is produced and I can finally play sitting in front of the monitor.


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## adriangrizzly

https://neuraldsp.com/products/archetype-plini/?utm_source=plini&utm_campaign=plini

Plini Signature "Pack" just released.

edit: nevermind there an own thread about it!


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## Ramy

Awesome plugin! I'd really like to use the IR's on my AX8. Does anybody know which IR's are being used for the stock IR? Specifically the dynamic 57 and the ribbon 121. Thanks!


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## Ericjutsu

Ramy said:


> Awesome plugin! I'd really like to use the IR's on my AX8. Does anybody know which IR's are being used for the stock IR? Specifically the dynamic 57 and the ribbon 121. Thanks!


They are from MLSoundlab. Shoot him a message on facebook and maybe he can steer you in the right direction. My guess would be a mesa IR


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## KnightBrolaire

I made some random clips with ownhammer IRs and my Oil City Blackbird loaded Mushok.
https://www.mediafire.com/file/91wvt59b72cqkac/blkbird_nameless.zip/file


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## youngthrasher9

Here’s a clip I did, show casing an almost buzzsaw-y bloodbath-y double boosted tone with Nameless. I was relearning an entombed riff at the beginning and realized I played it entirely wrong, but the tone is pretty decent. This was also a PRS mushok, mine was loaded with a Titan in the bridge. 



https://soundcloud.com/christopher-ward-8/dwedish-sick-bd


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## Mullet

How do I get the Nameless plugin to work in Cubase 10 guys? I'd like to hear the wet guitar noise as a I record if possible too. Thanks


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## Kaura

Mullet said:


> How do I get the Nameless plugin to work in Cubase 10 guys? I'd like to hear the wet guitar noise as a I record if possible too. Thanks



Search the folder where you've installed Cubase for a folder called "vstplugins", at least that's what it's called in Cubase 6. Then copy the .dll file of the plugin there. To hear the wet signal. Just tap the speaker icon on the desired track(s).


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## youngthrasher9

Alex Wade just posted a pretty cool playthrough of his new Neural sig plugin on his instagram story. Three channels like the Archetype but obviously geared toward his style.

There’s no details yet but I suspect the high gain amp is modeled after either his blackface dual rec, his Fortin Knuckle Mod (Marshall), or his Fortin Meshuggah. I’m guessing it’ll come with the Zuul, and either his signature blade OD or the Grind. I’m leaning towards the dual rec or the knuckle mod because Nameless is the meshuggah. I know he tracked The Valley with the dual rec mostly so we shall see. I’m super stoked.


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## PatientMental76

Wish they would add the 33 pedal to it or make a standalone


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## Kaura

Yeah, I saw that Alex Wade post on IG too. I think it's said that the plugin will be out in late August so hopefully they'll release some info about it this week. Also, I want to get the Parallax plugin but I'm gonna wait until the new plugin so I can finally get some discount.


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## Cynicanal

PatientMental76 said:


> Wish they would add the 33 pedal to it or make a standalone


Doesn't it already have the Grind? The Grind and the 33 are literally the same pedal as per Plage Scythe Studio's analysis.


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## PatientMental76

Cynicanal said:


> Doesn't it already have the Grind? The Grind and the 33 are literally the same pedal as per Plage Scythe Studio's analysis.



No they are not, Plauge should do hair product reviews instead!


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## Cynicanal

Yes, they are. Same components aside from some extra power filtering on the 33 (irrelevant for a plugin). Both the 33, Grind, and the simulated Grind in the Nameless plugin have the same EQ curve and db boost.


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## Mullet

Kaura said:


> Search the folder where you've installed Cubase for a folder called "vstplugins", at least that's what it's called in Cubase 6. Then copy the .dll file of the plugin there. To hear the wet signal. Just tap the speaker icon on the desired track(s).


Thanks mate!!


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## Backsnack

PatientMental76 said:


> No they are not, Plauge should do hair product reviews instead!


Despite the fact that he looks like a wannabe pre-pubescent Mormon Jesus, his analyses are thorough. RTA/EQ plots disprove your opinion.

If you still think you’re right, get both pedals and have someone set up a blind a/b test for you and try to pick one from the other. I’ll bet you the price of one of those pedals that you can’t do it reliably, with certainty, more than a few times.


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## Metropolis

Finally bought this, it's a monster and it feels like a real amp. What else you need?  Time to sound like everyone else in 2018/2019


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## bmth4111

Holy shit I ignored the hype for this plugin until I randomly tried it today. I have been trying to get a decent tone out of the axe fx and always end up frustrated and uninspired. 

Playing this trial now and it sounds INSANE with minimal tweaking! Really inspired me to play after being so fed up with my axe fx xl.

The tone is so close to what I have been trying to create. So dynamic yet brutal. Using Fishmans fluence moderns and until now I have liked them much.


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## PatientMental76

bmth4111 said:


> Holy shit I ignored the hype for this plugin until I randomly tried it today. I have been trying to get a decent tone out of the axe fx and always end up frustrated and uninspired.
> 
> Playing this trial now and it sounds INSANE with minimal tweaking! Really inspired me to play after being so fed up with my axe fx xl.
> 
> The tone is so close to what I have been trying to create. So dynamic yet brutal. Using Fishmans fluence moderns and until now I have liked them much.



I was in the same boat man, tweaking my Axe Fx none stop instead of playing! I got the Nameless & sold the Fractal & never looked back!


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## bmth4111

PatientMental76 said:


> I was in the same boat man, tweaking my Axe Fx none stop instead of playing! I got the Nameless & sold the Fractal & never looked back!



Yeah Im thinking about doing the same. Can't wait for whatever they are going to reveal at namm!
Now just need to try the other plug-ins for a good warm but articulate clean!

Using a computer live for tone is just a little odd to me but I think it would still be worth it even if they dont end up coming up with hardware for neural.


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## c7spheres

KnightBrolaire said:


> I made some random clips with ownhammer IRs and my Oil City Blackbird loaded Mushok.
> https://www.mediafire.com/file/91wvt59b72cqkac/blkbird_nameless.zip/file


 Nice thick and gooey fudge brownie tone!


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## Backsnack

bmth4111 said:


> Yeah Im thinking about doing the same. Can't wait for whatever they are going to reveal at namm!
> Now just need to try the other plug-ins for a good warm but articulate clean!
> 
> Using a computer live for tone is just a little odd to me but I think it would still be worth it even if they dont end up coming up with hardware for neural.


Check the new thread. Neural is teasing something that looks like it might be hardware.


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## InHiding

Does this plugin (or the standalone version) have a scaling graphical user interface? I have a 4K laptop and do not really like to use smaller resolutions so most plugins are really small on the screen. Windows magnifying glass helps but it's a bit of a hassle too.


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## Metropolis

InHiding said:


> Does this plugin (or the standalone version) have a scaling graphical user interface? I have a 4K laptop and do not really like to use smaller resolutions so most plugins are really small on the screen. Windows magnifying glass helps but it's a bit of a hassle too.



Latest version has three different sizes, height of the biggest scaling option is 1080.


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## Lorcan Ward

For reference I find the biggest size too big on my 21.5” iMac and the middle is more than big enough to work with.


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## KnightBrolaire

Got bored and made a vid showing that the Nameless plugin is pretty good at classic hard rock/thrash tones.


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## InHiding

Really nice plugin. I wish they'd release a decently priced regular sized stomp box version of this plugin only with most important knob adjustments and some settings could be brought over from the VST. I would instantly buy it. The Quad Cortex is not that interesting to me at least right now.


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## Frostbite

Just a heads up the Nameless has been updated with a working stereo button, tuner, and midi options like with the new Omega plugin. Version 3 is out now.

Edit:I'm 4 months late on that. Woops LMAO


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## Backsnack

I’ve been circling back around to Nameless lately.

It’s pretty damn easy to get a great-sounding tone with my 7 and 8-stringers. What’s even more impressive is how good it sounds on the default settings.


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