# Bogner Uberschall vs Diezel Herbert/Hagen/VH4



## ZeroTolerance (May 27, 2012)

I've been recently thinking about changing my Uberschall rig to Diezel rig. To my ears, I think Uber just lacks something. I own Bogner Uberschall green rev. and Bogner Ubercab (2xV30+2xG12T75 in X pattern, rear loaded). 
I read few threads (for example, this one) where people compared these amps (Uber to Herbie), but actually they didn't come to any conclusions, at least not satisfying for me.
I must admit that I'm looking for, well... brutal tone with lots of clarity, not muddy and not sterile. It will be played through Ubercab or Engl Pro (slanted, 4xV30 front loaded) but I'm also thinking about changing Ubercab to Diezel Cab (straight, V30s, probably front loaded). I'm mainly playing in C# and B. Every note and string must be audible on high gain.
My number one atm is Herbert (with EL34). Why? I don't know, it just seems good. Not too many channels, not so sterile and muddy, brutal etc.

Any ideas or thoughts what is suitable for me are welcome.


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## dean_fry (May 27, 2012)

well the secret weapon is still the Einstein! Else VH4 anytime!


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## cardinal (May 27, 2012)

VH4 is my fav amp. It's the most killer hard rock sound imaginable, to me. Not sure I'd call it "brutal," though. Herbie seems to be more popular for extreme metal stuff. Not sure about the Hagen. Reviews put it somewhere between a VH4 and a Herbie. 

Keep in mind that there have been revisions to both the VH4 and Herbert over the years. Herbert MkII's have different/bigger transformers than the originals. I just got an original Blueface VH4, which is different from both the 2007 VH4 is use to own and the 2011 reissue Blueface that I played. They're all awesome and sound like a VH4, but are different flavors.


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## Shadowspecced (May 27, 2012)

I played a VH4 and a Herbert before I got my Uber twin jet.. 

Something about the uber just sounded, and most of all, felt, right when I played through it. One thing to keep in mind, even with kt88's, the Uberschall isn't the bone-crusher that Bogner markets it as. I like to think of it as a mature, refined, modern metal amp.. I play alot of lead, and the way that the Uberschall really brings high notes to life is something I haven't seen too many other high-gain amps do.. Everything really sings in every register, it's musical, and very evenly voiced with just the right amount of inherent midrange. When you couple it with bass, drums, and maybe another guitar, it won't get lost in the mix, and really adds something to the sound of the band, the harmonics are really lively, and it makes guitar parts really jump out. On top of how it works for me with leads, as long as you're on top of your picking hand, this amp seriously growls at you, it sounds like a really pissed off old mans amp.. But you probably know what an Uberschall sounds like for the most part.

The Diezel's on the other hand, while they shouldn't be grouped together, are generally not a whole lot like the Uberschall.. so much so that I think the only reason they get compared all the time is because they're expensive.

When I played the Diezel's, both of them were pretty compressed. The lead sound was really smooth, really fluid, and really boring in my opinion. It's a much more refined amp than the Uberschall, which is why the majority of people prefer it I think. They sound really huge, stay tight with low tuning. It's been used to describe these amps countless times, but the truth is, they sound like a finished studio tone coming out of a cab in front of you. 

Right now I own an Uberschall and I'm super happy with it. With that said, if someone told me to go out right now and get an amp, there's a good chance it'd be a Diezel. They're both great, and if you haven't already, I'd say check out a Diezel. They aren't for everyone, but it's hard to deny that they sound awesome. For me it's just less fun to play through. I should also add, in my band, most of the rhythm's are done with the other guitarists recto. If the other guitarist didn't exist, I'd probably go for the Diezel, when it comes to shaking walls, very few can do it better. I just prefer the Growl, mid range throatyness, and controlled, beautiful harmonics that the uberschall produces.


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## wakjob (May 27, 2012)

Also, as for the cab. And someone can call B.S. to correct me but, I'm pretty sure both the Uberkab and Diezel cab's are made at the same place, same materials, and same construction technique. 

Again, not 100% sure on this. But my feeble memory is tying to tell me I read this someplace. So you may not be gaining much other than matching aesthetics.


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## ZeroTolerance (May 27, 2012)

wakjob said:


> Also, as for the cab. And someone can call B.S. to correct me but, I'm pretty sure both the Uberkab and Diezel cab's are made at the same place, same materials, and same construction technique.
> 
> Again, not 100% sure on this. But my feeble memory is tying to tell me I read this someplace. So you may not be gaining much other than matching aesthetics.



I heard it too. Are they same dimensions etc? Good to know actually, because both Bogner and Diezel cabs are hard to find on 2nd hand market. Easy to sell, not easy to buy.


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## EOT (May 27, 2012)

wakjob said:


> Also, as for the cab. And someone can call B.S. to correct me but, I'm pretty sure both the Uberkab and Diezel cab's are made at the same place, same materials, and same construction technique.
> 
> Again, not 100% sure on this. But my feeble memory is tying to tell me I read this someplace. So you may not be gaining much other than matching aesthetics.



I don't know the whole story, but at least some of the older U.S. made cabs are supposedly made by the same company that builds Bogners cabs. I have one and it does have the same batting material on the back panel. I have EVM12L's in it so it's a beast. 

The newer German made cabs are built a little differently and many say sound better too. I also have one of these front loaded with Celestion K100's. And it's the only cab that sounds as good or better than the EVM loaded cab with my Herbert. 

I have never played an Uber, so I can't give much in terms of comparing them. I really would like to check out an Uber eventually though. 

I do think the Herbert into the front loaded K100 Diezel cab is very brutal and clear. I personally hate V30's for metal. I use an 8 string tuned 1 1/2 steps down and no boost.


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## Seanthesheep (May 27, 2012)

Shadowspecced said:


> I played a VH4 and a Herbert before I got my Uber twin jet..
> 
> Something about the uber just sounded, and most of all, felt, right when I played through it. One thing to keep in mind, even with kt88's, the Uberschall isn't the bone-crusher that Bogner markets it as. I like to think of it as a mature, refined, modern metal amp.. I play alot of lead, and the way that the Uberschall really brings high notes to life is something I haven't seen too many other high-gain amps do.. Everything really sings in every register, it's musical, and very evenly voiced with just the right amount of inherent midrange. When you couple it with bass, drums, and maybe another guitar, it won't get lost in the mix, and really adds something to the sound of the band, the harmonics are really lively, and it makes guitar parts really jump out. On top of how it works for me with leads, as long as you're on top of your picking hand, this amp seriously growls at you, it sounds like a really pissed off old mans amp.. But you probably know what an Uberschall sounds like for the most part.
> 
> ...




Have nor played either amp in real life but only making patches on an axefxii, Id say that to me they can soun similar but the diezel sounds more refined. 

AMP DEMOS 1 by seanthesheep on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free

Thats a clip i recorded today. The diezel is through a mills acoustic 412 with K100s amd the uberschall is through a ubercab IR. 

Hope it helps


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## cardinal (May 27, 2012)

As said above, current Diezel cabs are made in Germany, which is not where the Bogners are made. Most Diezel cabs in the States are not the German cabs (apparently the import costs are outrageous) but were made in the US somewhere. As I understand the situation, many of the US made cabs were made without an actual license from Diezel.

Edit: to the post above, in my opinion, the VH4 sim on the Axe II is a not very acurate model of Channel 4, so it's hard to made judgements on the real thing using the Axe as a reference.


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## USMarine75 (May 27, 2012)

The best note definition I've heard through a modern high gain amp while playing complex chords is a Fryette. And I've read countless articles by tone snobs that agree. Especially with downtuning. I've heard that the Fortin Natas and Meathead also have great clarity with downtuning, but I've only heard clips and not in person. The Uber was close IMO. I've only heard the VH4 and I think it is an all around perfect amp, but I don't think the single note definition is as crystal clear as the Fryette, or even my Engl.


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## cardinal (May 28, 2012)

I played a Fryette 50cl back-to-back with a VH4. Note definition and dynamics on the Fryette were unreal, they were so good. But the VH4 is no slouch in either category, and the Diezel's "sonic footprint" was absolutely massive next to the Pitbull. I've heard that the SigX and Deliverance sound bigger/fatter than the Pitbulls but retain the same unreal dynamics and note definition. I want to try a SigX badly.


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## USMarine75 (May 28, 2012)

cardinal said:


> I played a Fryette 50cl back-to-back with a VH4. Note definition and dynamics on the Fryette were unreal, they were so good. But the VH4 is no slouch in either category, and the Diezel's "sonic footprint" was absolutely massive next to the Pitbull. I've heard that the SigX and Deliverance sound bigger/fatter than the Pitbulls but retain the same unreal dynamics and note definition. I want to try a SigX badly.



Agreed 100%! But the Fryette Ultra Lead is even better and bigger sounding. Definitely give that a try 1st before you buy anything. And it had the most bad ass low end punch of any amp Ive ever heard. It sounded like it had a built in subwoofer lol.


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## EOT (May 28, 2012)

I have a Pittbull UL as well. And it is an awesome amp. Note clarity is very good, there's no denying that. But I feel it needs a boost to get that saturation that I love. You should hear one in stereo with a Herbert.


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## SSK0909 (May 28, 2012)

Heres a little clip of my VH4 through a Mesa 4x12 cab.

Eb tuning and sloppy playing 

Diezel VH4 by Pandas With Power Tools on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free


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## 7 Dying Trees (May 28, 2012)

EOT said:


> I have a Pittbull UL as well. And it is an awesome amp. Note clarity is very good, there's no denying that. But I feel it needs a boost to get that saturation that I love. You should hear one in stereo with a Herbert.


UL + Herbert is an absolutely massive sound. Those two amps just "work"


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## Wizard of Ozz (May 28, 2012)

I'd take a Herbert, VH4 or Fryette UL anyday over any version of the Uberschall. I've owned 5 different Ubers (from version 1.0 thru the current Rev. Blue Uber) and never was 100% happy with any of them. If note definition is important, either Diezel or the UL will work much better for you. I liked both my Herbet and UL way more than any Uber I've owned. Also the Herbert and UL are way more versatile and the fx loops, kill the Uber's loop.


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## USMarine75 (May 28, 2012)

I will say the one thing I noticed about the VH4 over probably any other amp is that the distortion is very unforgiving to mistakes. For some reason more than any other amp I felt it magnified every flaw that I made. [not saying that this is a bad thing... it makes you a better guitarist!]

I'm curious how the Fortin Natas and Meathead compare to these other higain super amps. I've seen all the vids, but I'd love to hear one in person!


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