# How do you practice scales?



## bythepainiseetheothers (Jan 9, 2016)

Hi!

I've always been the kind of guy that goes for tabs and then learns (or at least tries to) the entire song. I've decided that I want to get into guitar seriously and I wanna learn scales and how to use them.

I've picked up today G Major scale in the 4th position and with a metronome i've started practicing and learning the scale.

My question is how did you/do you learn scales so you will be able to, in a future, put it into a musical context? Thank you!


----------



## kootenay (Jan 9, 2016)

I have been playing for 20 years, but never practiced anything as far as actual guitar knowledge. I finally learned the minor pentatonic scale and the 7 modes of the major scale, but I still have no idea how to apply them. I decided it was just best to bite the bullet and take lessons. Which I did, started them yesterday. So I guess my solution is take lessons....haha


----------



## redstone (Jan 9, 2016)

I play all modes, listen to their colors, how they connect together, what sort of chords and progressions I can use and how it connects to other scales. When I couldn't play much, I used a DAW and a keyboard instead of struggling with the instrument. I don't use scale patterns to practice instrumental techniques.


----------



## Khaerruhl (Jan 9, 2016)

If you wanna learn in a musical context, practice in a musical way. Either find or create a backing track, doesn't have to be anything flashy, but something to practice over.


----------



## Konfyouzd (Jan 9, 2016)

redstone said:


> I play all modes, listen to their colors, how they connect together, what sort of chords and progressions I can use and how it connects to other scales. When I couldn't play much, I used a DAW and a keyboard instead of struggling with the instrument. I don't use scale patterns to practice instrumental techniques.



This... They're colors in a palette not resume items.


----------



## bythepainiseetheothers (Jan 9, 2016)

So, practice with a metronome to get the idea of the scale and get used to the fingering, and then go straight into backtracks and jam? Seems logical, okay, I will do that.


----------



## Konfyouzd (Jan 9, 2016)

Don't be overly concerned w mistakes when you jam. You can learn from them.


----------



## wespaul (Jan 9, 2016)

Sequencing scales is really good for getting them firmly under your fingers and in your ears, such as sequencing in 3rds and 4ths.


----------



## Santuzzo (Jan 10, 2016)

I practice scales along to backing tracks and play them in different sequences/patterns. And I also try to improvise with it.

When practicing modes I think using some kind of harmonic/chordal background (as in a backing track) is very important as it lets you hear the sound of each particular mode. If only practiced to a metronome, D dorian will sound the same as E phrygian, but a backing track in D dorian will sound very different to a backing track in E phrygian.


----------



## TheFightingCPA (Jan 10, 2016)

This is a really great book that will get you going, even includes a cd.

http://www.amazon.com/Serious-Jazz-Practice-Book-Instruments/dp/1883217423


----------



## DudeManBrother (Jan 11, 2016)

Practice scales in your mind! Seriously though, if you learned G major, congratulations, you know every major scale there is. Just start on any note other than G and repeat the same pattern. Practicing a scale isn't very musical, try to grasp the relationship each scale tone has to one another. Start with G and hear why B and D sound so nice with it. Hear why D wants to resolve back to G, hear why F# also serves the same purpose as D when creating tension that wants to resolve to G. Don't want to resolve just yet? Then pick a different scale tone to build even more tension. 
Try a simple chord progression like I vi IV V in G major (G Em C D), now use the same progression in A dorion(2nd scale tone of G maj, just play G major but start at the 2nd note, A, and play thru to A an octave higher, jik you didn't understand what a mode is) i vi*IV v. Hear how it is similar, hear how it is different. Move through all the modes using the same basic progression to get a basic understanding of how to use modes. You could roll a dice, whatever number it lands on will tell you how many chords you're going to play in your progression. Then roll two dice to determine which scale tone you'll play. Ex., die rolled 3, so you'll play a 3 chord progression. First roll of two dice is 4+2, so it will be the 6th scale tone, second roll of dice is 6+5 so play the 4th scale tone (11 is an octave of 4; 11-7) and the last roll is snake eyes, so play the 2nd scale tone. In G major you got vi IV ii, or Em C Am. Em is the natural minor scale(aeolian) of G major, so you can also write it as i VI iv in E minor. Same exact thing, just one is expressed from the major scale starting point, and the other is expressed from the first chord as the leading tone.


----------



## meteor685 (Jan 11, 2016)

Don't just learn G major scale, learn the major scale in all 12 keys, and also the modes in the 12 keys.. 

LEarn them in every position of the neck. Theres a load of scales in the sticky thread for this section of the forum to learn.

Learn your chord types, and what scales, arps, pentatonics, triads sounds good over it..

Example: Dorian works very well with Min 7 chord type

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmA5FUTBGf8

This method is a great method of learning scales...even though it is a bit boring at times.

you can also learn 4 note per string scales, you can get great sounds of them, and make some cool sounding sequences with them..its in Brett Garseds rock fusion somewhere.

And as always practice with metronome


----------



## onefingersweep (Jan 11, 2016)

Practice chord scales. You need to know what chords are in the scale. Learning only patterns will not get you anywhere musically.


----------



## bythepainiseetheothers (Jan 14, 2016)

Okay, so when you say "I vi IV V" those are the degrees of the scale, right?


----------



## Santuzzo (Jan 15, 2016)

bythepainiseetheothers said:


> Okay, so when you say "I vi IV V" those are the degrees of the scale, right?



Yes, it's the diatonic chords built on those degrees of the scale. An upper case roman numeral indicates a major chord/triad and a lower case roman numeral indicates a minor chord.


----------



## celticelk (Jan 15, 2016)

I practice scales by improvising melodies. I never practice patterns.


----------



## bythepainiseetheothers (Jan 16, 2016)

I've been practicing shapes for a couple days and it has been great! I'm feeling really comfortable with my fingers and I feel how my dexterity is growing.


----------



## bigboy (Feb 10, 2016)

Lessons r the a must? At it for years I should be better see my box playing thread I just made for my lack of skils . For real I can't afford 60.00 a hour or more but is there any online teachers that teach for free or at a budget rate ? Not YouTube I want that one on one experience i learn better that way. YouTube Imo helped me sure but I get stuck an give up . I dud learn tapping,harmonics from a few YouTube videos but anyone against lessons for me? Sorry to thread jack


----------



## Vladissonance (Feb 10, 2016)

the only way to practice the scale is with pleasure


----------



## MajorTom (Feb 10, 2016)

I generally practise scale - A flat through to G sharp and pentatonics scales and such for an hour or two in bed every morning before I get up, I have a really nice parlour guitar that is made of birch and made in the late 30's that is the perfect size for playing the guitar in bed. I also use a metronome that does both clicks on the beat and lights u on the beat and I alternate between using the clicks and light, so one morning I will use the clicks, the next morning I will use the light feature, my metronome also has the ability to program in different time signatures like 5/3 and such, so I make use of that feature aswell.

A good metronome is worth it's weight in gold when practicing.



bigboy said:


> Lessons r the a must? At it for years I should be better see my box playing thread I just made for my lack of skils . For real I can't afford 60.00 a hour or more but is there any online teachers that teach for free or at a budget rate ? Not YouTube I want that one on one experience i learn better that way. YouTube Imo helped me sure but I get stuck an give up . I dud learn tapping,harmonics from a few YouTube videos but anyone against lessons for me? Sorry to thread jack



I hate to be the bearer of bad news and to pee all over your bonfire, but if you want one to one attention, you have to pay for it, and it is not cheap, there are over heads to be covered that can not be divided by multiple students to soften the blow if you are teaching one on one, unless the teacher you get is lucky enough to own his teaching space there is the cost of the room rental that is used for teaching that needs to be covered, then there is the utilities for the room heating electricity..., then there are the perishable things like your teachers guitar picks and strings and things like batteries, then there is the wear and tear of your teachers instrument and equipment like amps and leads, plus many other expenses that need to be covered like business insurance, business license, advertising and marketing, the teachers time and effort, teaching materials, taxes, health and dental insurance if you are in America NHS contributions if you are in the U.K. and US$60.00 an hour for one on one guitar lessons is extremely cheap, I charge a lot more than that for one on one lessons, and I only teach one on one, I don't teach group lessons. I could go on and on about all the costs involved, but the bottom line is this. 

What makes you think that you are so special that a teacher should not only teach you for free but basically pay for the privilege of teaching you?


----------



## feraledge (Feb 11, 2016)

Practicing scales is kind of like my stress ball. I think it drives my wife nuts though. The real problem is that I've been playing guitar for 23 years now and I didn't take the lessons seriously enough to pick up more than 2 or 3 scales early on. I constantly think I should spend more time on picking up new ones, but I always default on those same 2 or 3. 
If I could go back to young me, I would say that just because punk bands take the easy route doesn't mean that I should disregard the metal and take those scales more seriously. Live and learn.


----------



## gnoll (Feb 11, 2016)

I don't think scales sound good so I'm not really interested in playing them.


----------



## USMarine75 (Feb 11, 2016)

gnoll said:


> I don't think scales sound good so I'm not really interested in playing them.


----------



## Maybrick (Feb 14, 2016)

I like to practice scales to a backing track for YouTube so I can learn to get a real feel for the scale.


----------



## Nomad (Feb 16, 2016)

In '96 John Myung (Dream Theater bassist -- awesome at soloing) did an instructional video
called "Progressive Bass Concepts" produced by Hal Leonard. Within the video he demonstrates an idea called "The Backwards Modal Approach." I won't give away the details here, but if you know the basic 3-note-per string patterns for each of the modes across 2 strings, you can play any scale across the neck easily by connecting 6-note patterns. It really works! It's very easy to understand with a basic music theory background. Also the fact that it's based on 3-note per string patterns makes it easy to play faster than playing a scale using a mix of 2 and 3 notes per string...


----------



## Solodini (Feb 18, 2016)

Don't just play in 2nds (G to A, A to B, B to C). Play through the scale across a few octaves in 3rds, 4ths, 5ths, 6ths, going from high to low, as well as from low to high. 

Displace notes by an octave, so you're playing one note or more out of the octave, like GABC then drop down an octave for D, back up an octave for E, back down an octave for F# and G. Also try playing the next note you're looking for on a random string: G on the D string, A on the B string, C on the A string, D on the B string, E on the G string, F# on the D string, E on the A string. This will familiarise you with finding notes all over the fingerboard and not limit yourself to thinking in boxed positions.

Repeat notes. Double pick whatever you're playing sometime, or double pick the odd note here and there: the latter approach will displace notes rhythmically, putting different notes on strong beats and implying a different focus. Also return to notes. This could be playing GAGBGCGD... or GABGCDGEF# or GABABCBCDCDEDEF#EF#GF#GA OR GAGABGABCGABCD... You can double pick any sections of those, too. 

Create short phrases comprising of various intervals and shift them diatonically through the scale. GCBD would shift down to F#BAC to EAGB. Or it would shift up to ADCE to BEDF# and so on. You can also invert that phrase, so instead of going from G (the tonic of the scale) up a 4th to C, down a 2nd to B, up a 3rd to D, you might go down a 4th from G to D, up a 2nd to E, down a 3rd to C. Then shift that through the scale. Then mix and match them. Double pick/or double the duration of some notes.

These approaches will get your hands and brain used to moving through a scale but in ways which apply more directly to making music and improvising, rather than just linearly playing up and down and needing every note to be in context of that physical pattern.


----------



## Thrashman (Feb 26, 2016)

Santuzzo said:


> If only practiced to a metronome, D dorian will sound the same as E phrygian, but a backing track in D dorian will sound very different to a backing track in E phrygian.



Yes and no. This does not work because of the way if approach, which in this case is similar/just like the most common mistake when approaching/playing modes - playing a C major from F to F does not make it Lydian just because F is the fourth degree from the scale, it will only become Lydian if the underlying harmony is, and with the minor modes (Dorian, Phrygian, Aeolian and Locrian) the last thing to do is think C major when playing for example D Dorian because you will automatically emphasise the major sound.

For modes I would much rather recommend playing the major or minor pentatonic and add the key notes from each mode - the Dorian scale signature is the maj 6th interval, so play a minor pentatonic scale and add that note in to really hear and get a feel of that mode. For Mixolydian that is a major scale with a flat (b) 7th interval, play the major pentatonic and add the flat 7 for example.

This is how a lot of the greats do it and for a very good reason - you get the most important sounds without the 'garbage' or redundant intervals and at the same time you will sound great and people will think you know what you are doing.. Maybe because you do


----------



## Santuzzo (Feb 27, 2016)

Thrashman said:


> Yes and no. This does not work because of the way if approach, which in this case is similar/just like the most common mistake when approaching/playing modes - playing a C major from F to F does not make it Lydian just because F is the fourth degree from the scale, it will only become Lydian if the underlying harmony is, and with the minor modes (Dorian, Phrygian, Aeolian and Locrian) the last thing to do is think C major when playing for example D Dorian because you will automatically emphasise the major sound.
> 
> For modes I would much rather recommend playing the major or minor pentatonic and add the key notes from each mode - the Dorian scale signature is the maj 6th interval, so play a minor pentatonic scale and add that note in to really hear and get a feel of that mode. For Mixolydian that is a major scale with a flat (b) 7th interval, play the major pentatonic and add the flat 7 for example.
> 
> This is how a lot of the greats do it and for a very good reason - you get the most important sounds without the 'garbage' or redundant intervals and at the same time you will sound great and people will think you know what you are doing.. Maybe because you do



In my experience practicing to a modal backing track works very well. 
This could also just be a drone with the root note of the mode sounding, so you hear the sound of every scale note referred to the root of the mode. 

Whether you derive your modes from pentatonics or not gets you to the same result. But playing a min pentatonic scale and adding the maj6th interval gets you a dorian sound, yes, but it's still not the same thing as playing the full dorian mode. Don't get me wrong, it's still a nice thing to do and sounds good, but it's just NOT the same as practicing the full mode. And I would not advice using this approach as an alternative to studying the modes. I'd rather use it in addition.

To me there are no 'garbage' or redundant intervals in scales. Each of them has their place and importance. Would you say the 2/9 is a redundant note in Dorian????  

But apart from practicing modes, what I like to do if I use pentatonics, is to change the standard pentatonics, so I might play a minor pentatonic scale but instead of adding the major 6rh, I replace the minor 7th with the major 6th.
This is a cool thing to do over all kinds of chords, say a maj7th#5 chord I might use 1,3,#4,#5,7 as a pentatonic scale. Sounds very cool


----------



## Thrashman (Feb 27, 2016)

Santuzzo said:


> In my experience practicing to a modal backing track works very well.
> This could also just be a drone with the root note of the mode sounding, so you hear the sound of every scale note referred to the root of the mode.
> 
> Whether you derive your modes from pentatonics or not gets you to the same result. But playing a min pentatonic scale and adding the maj6th interval gets you a dorian sound, yes, but it's still not the same thing as playing the full dorian mode. Don't get me wrong, it's still a nice thing to do and sounds good, but it's just NOT the same as practicing the full mode. And I would not advice using this approach as an alternative to studying the modes. I'd rather use it in addition.
> ...



Yes and no, you still have to imply dorian, otherwise what you play will still sound major rather than minor (referencing to my previous mindset comment) and that is pretty much fact/psychology which i why I don't recommend it.

For dorian, yes, the 2 is redundant FOR THAT MODE/SOUND, as the 2/9 is not unique to that mode.. Do you get what I mean? To get straight to the dorian sound, a min pentatonic + 6th is the simplest and fastest/most effective way there as you will outline the harmony without too many shared notes. This is a similar reasoning to why many big platers like Gilmour often remove the min6 from a minor/aeolian scale, because it is quite ambiguous.. 
Again, not saying you shouldnt play the notes, but that some if them are not needed and often excessive, like the 4 and 5. Then again, it comes down to what you want to convey, but more is not always better


----------



## Santuzzo (Feb 27, 2016)

Thrashman said:


> Yes and no, you still have to imply dorian, otherwise what you play will still sound major rather than minor (referencing to my previous mindset comment) and that is pretty much fact/psychology which i why I don't recommend it.



What I am saying is to practice the scale against a backing track. If you play the notes of a c-major scale over a C major backing track they will sound very compared to playing the same notes over a D Dorian backing track for instance. 



> For dorian, yes, the 2 is redundant FOR THAT MODE/SOUND, as the 2/9 is not unique to that mode.. Do you get what I mean? To get straight to the dorian sound, a min pentatonic + 6th is the simplest and fastest/most effective way there as you will outline the harmony without too many shared notes. This is a similar reasoning to why many big platers like Gilmour often remove the min6 from a minor/aeolian scale, because it is quite ambiguous..
> Again, not saying you shouldnt play the notes, but that some if them are not needed and often excessive, like the 4 and 5. Then again, it comes down to what you want to convey, but more is not always better



I still stand by my opinion, the 2nd is not redundant to me, no single note of any scale is. The 9 is one of the notes I would use quite a bit. Keep in mind, when playing a certain mode, we are still wanting to make music and not have as primary goal just to show that we know which notes outline the mode we are playing.
Of course they are not needed, but neither is the root, it will be played by the bass player or other accompanying instrument. I would rather avoid playing the root too much than the 2nd.

My 2 cents anyway. Like I said, I still stand by my opinion, as I'm sure you will stand by yours. Fair enough.


----------



## Thrashman (Feb 27, 2016)

Actually let me rephrase/edit - the 2/9 IS redundant in the dorian mode. The only notes you need in that mode to imply dorian is 1(key center) min3 (minor) and 6 (dorian characteristic). That is stripping it down but answering your question correctly, and this works for all modes, Lydian being 1-3-#4 (maybe maj7) for example. For what other notess you need or want depends on the underlying harmont/chords, and whatnotes you prefer is another thing but that takes us into subjective opinions and preferences  so lets leave it there!


----------



## Santuzzo (Feb 27, 2016)

Thrashman said:


> Actually let me rephrase/edit - the 2/9 IS redundant in the dorian mode. The only notes you need in that mode to imply dorian is 1(key center) min3 (minor) and 6 (dorian characteristic). That is stripping it down but answering your question correctly, and this works for all modes, Lydian being 1-3-#4 (maybe maj7) for example. For what other notess you need or want depends on the underlying harmont/chords, and whatnotes you prefer is another thing but that takes us into subjective opinions and preferences  so lets leave it there!



Well, I was not saying your idea is wrong, it's a good idea to use pentatonics and see which notes to add to get a certain mode.
I was only suggesting to use that as an addition rather than an alternative to the study of complete modes.

But once again: to me no note is redundant in any mode. I know what you mean, though, you play a maj6th over a minor chord and that is enough to create the dorian sound. But to me that is not really studying modes.
Now we're going in circles, though .... LOL

Using many different approaches is very often a good idea, but choosing only one as 'the right one', because 'THIS is what the greats are doing' seems a little limiting in my opinion. There's many different ways of practicing modes. All of which are valid. Best practice is to use more than one approach.


----------



## JeremyRodriguez5544998 (Mar 14, 2016)

Pretty sure this has been answered by now but just in case:

One of the best exercises to learn how to apply scales is mixing up patterns. Things like playing a half step below each note in the arpeggio, or playing up the scale and back down, alternating.

The technical terms are like playing in thirds, arpeggiating and incorporating leading tones. Not sure if you're as familiar with that stuff.


----------



## bostjan (Mar 14, 2016)

Check out my music theory site and let me know what you think: https://sites.google.com/site/bostjanzupancickhereb/home/bostjan/music-theory

You can practice a scale by playing it forwards and backwards. Once that's no longer challenging, try playing the first note, skipping the second note, playing the third note, going back to the second note, etc.

Like, if the scale is G A B C D E F# G,

Start by playing G A B C D E F# G
Then G F# E D C B A G

And, after you progress: G B A C B D C E D F# E G F# A G
Then G B F# A E G D F# C E B D A C G

If that gets too easy, you are ready to jam, but you can also try going skip skip back, like G B D A C E B D F# C E G D F# A E G B F# A C G
Then G B D F# A C E G B D F# A C E G B D F# A C E G

After you do that, you'll have also played all of the elementary arpeggios in the key of G major.


----------

