# AX8 or Helix?



## Eden (Oct 1, 2018)

Been saving up for a modeler that I can use for home recording and practice, but could still run a digital rig for jamming with the boys. The Helix seems very cool to me, and I got the chance to play one at my local guitar center and was totally wowed by the sound and feel of it.

However, a new AX8 is the same or less than a used Helix, and from what I've gathered from reviews, it has the better amp modeling, but is a little less UI friendly. 

Thoughts? With the Helix always being updated, does it have the capacity to get even better? Or should I get the Fractal? Because I feel like I'd be happy either way


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## budda (Oct 1, 2018)

Fractal updates their stuff too .

Axe edit is pretty straightforward. It shouldn't be too hard to get good sounds if you are used to editing sounds in a program. Either way you'll want the manual handy when getting started.

I vote fractal. I tried the HxFx and couldnt even make a basic dirt/delay/reverb using their startup guide. I was hopeful because the price is right. With the manual, the fx8 didnt take long to set up.


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## makecamera (Oct 1, 2018)

I own an Axe Fx II XL and love it, but if it were between the Helix and AX8 for home use I'd go with the Helix. It's got the expression pedal, headphone out, and can act as an audio interface -- all things the AX8 doesn't have. You also said you tried one out and liked it, so you already have that going for you.

Or buy both, compare them, and return the one you like the least .


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## Flappydoodle (Oct 1, 2018)

Neither.

If you have to save up to buy a $1000 modeller, then I'd recommend simply using plugins for home recording. They can sound identical, and cost far less. A huge portion of the sound is from the cabinet impulse anyway. Thermionik amp sims costs $8 each, and you can get huge packs of impulses from Ownhammer for $10-12 per cabinet. Or that new Fortin sim is €90. You also have the benefit of being able to change your sound after the fact without re-amping. Your DAW will have built in reverb, delay, chorus etc which are perfectly good enough for home practice and recording.

And what do you mean by running a digital rig for jamming? Do you have a guitar cabinet? If so, then you need a power amp. Neither Helix nor Ax8 can plug directly into a guitar cabinet.

To me, these hardware devices are only worthwhile if you are touring. They will be more reliable than running a laptop with plugins. Plus, being able to control it with your feet is a benefit. For home recording, neither of those is a factor.


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## Bentaycanada (Oct 1, 2018)

KEMPER, seriously.


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## axxessdenied (Oct 1, 2018)

The helix sounds amazing these days


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## ryanscott6 (Oct 2, 2018)

Pick the one you can get the best deal on - all 3 of the top modellers kick ass.


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## MASS DEFECT (Oct 2, 2018)

If amp sounds are a priority, then I say AX8. The tweakability of all the amp models in the AX8 is just superb. You can change tube types, tweak voltage and sag, speaker decay etc. It's like modding a real amp. The Helix amp sounds are not bad at all. They sound more present. But the Fractal amps in Quantum firmware is just warmer and more responsive. Plus the controls are very close to the real thing. 

For everything else, Helix. It has more features, you can use it for recording, and is easier to use.


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## mnemonic (Oct 2, 2018)

AX8 has received a lot of updates in the past which is typical for Fractal, but it uses the same tech as the Axe FX II, which is now EOL and updates have slowed to a trickle as the III is taking up most of their time. I wouldn’t _expect_ further updates, but if there are any, just treat them like a bonus. 

For example, Axe FX II received its most recent update in May. AX8 got an update in September but I’m not sure if that was just the Axe FX II’s update getting ported to the AX8. Same firmware number at least. 

On the up-side, it sounds great as-is, and doesn’t particularly need any further updates. 

Very tweakable, moreso than the Helix, this can be a blessing or a curse depending on you. I kind of have a love/hate relationship with the level of deep editing you can do. If you’re used to amps it’s a learning curve. 

Front screen is very dated but usable, I generally don’t bother plugging my Axe FX II in unless I want to try someone else’s patch or something, I just edit from the front screen. Once you get it down, it’s easy enough to navigate. 

I only have limited experience with the helix, I tried helix native for a day back when the demo came out, since I was curious how it sounded. I thought it was pretty good! But at the time, not enough to make me want to sell my II to get one, as I was happy with my II.


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## Sogradde (Oct 2, 2018)

I'm a little biased because I recently bought a Helix LT but I'll try to explain why I prefer the Helix.

Between the AX8 and the Helix (LT?) I'd pick the Helix because the DSP limitation on the AX8 would inhibit me personally but if you buy the Helix, you will have to spend a little extra cash on good IRs.
Between the Helix and the Axe Fx 2/3 I'd pick the Helix simply because I want a floor unit, it is cheaper and easier to replace if it breaks while on tour.

Sound wise it is assumed that the Axe sounds a little better. From the sound clips and comparisons I heard, I wouldn't call it "better" but different. The fractal units tend to interact better with the volume control of the guitar, being more dynamic but to me the Helix models sound a littler fuller than the Fractal units.

At the end of the day, both have their merits and both are defnitely good enough for home recording, band practice and live gigs, it's just a matter of what features you want/need and what unit suits your work flow.


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## hvdh (Oct 2, 2018)

None of both!
Choose this one. Best solution for small homes for a small budget.


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## maccayoung (Oct 2, 2018)

This is a pretty good comparison video;


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## laxu (Oct 2, 2018)

I owned the Axe-Fx 2 for years and got pretty close to its sound with the Helix. I would still give the Fractal units a slight edge but the main thing the Helix does 10x better is the user interface. Helix is almost as easy to use as a pedalboard of individual pedals. It's fast to select blocks to edit and change their settings.

To me the UI trumped differences in sound, though I use my Helix mostly as an effects unit with a tube amp.


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## Metropolis (Oct 2, 2018)

maccayoung said:


> This is a pretty good comparison video;




It would have been legit couple of years ago, firmware developement changes things a lot.


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## mikah912 (Oct 2, 2018)

Eden said:


> Been saving up for a modeler that I can use for home recording and practice, but could still run a digital rig for jamming with the boys. The Helix seems very cool to me, and I got the chance to play one at my local guitar center and was totally wowed by the sound and feel of it.
> 
> However, a new AX8 is the same or less than a used Helix, and from what I've gathered from reviews, it has the better amp modeling, but is a little less UI friendly.
> 
> Thoughts? With the Helix always being updated, does it have the capacity to get even better? Or should I get the Fractal? Because I feel like I'd be happy either way



If updates are important to you, that tilts heavily for Helix since the AX8 and Axe-FX 2 platforms are way down the Fractal priority ladder these days. It was awesome of Cliff to port whatever Ares algorithms he could to them, but they're clearly nearing EOL in terms of support. Helix, OTOH, has a roadmap of years ahead of it and at least one big firmware update around the corner right now.

Also, the amp models vary on both platforms (I've had an AX8 and a Helix), so statements like "the amp modeling is better on X" don't apply. I liked some stuff better on Fractal and some better on Helix. Not a ton of overlap. The Helix Archon, Badonk and Cartographer amp models are my favorites, and you can't get them on Fractal. The Fractal 5153, Marshall JVM410HJS and FAS Modern models were my favorites there, and you can't get them on Helix. I'd say I preferred Fractal Fender sounds, Helix vox sounds, Fractal Marshalls, Fractal Mesa sounds and the Helix Friedman BE-100 sounds.

The Helix Floor also does sooooooo much more than an AX8. Reamp box, 8x8 interface, headphone jack, expression pedal, scribble strips for live performance.....you get a lot more for your money.


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## Captain Butterscotch (Oct 2, 2018)

Get the Helix and also pay for some top notch cab IRs.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Oct 2, 2018)

AX8 if you care more about amps and don't mind the tweaking, plus a bit of a learning curve using all the options. Lots and lots and lots of amps and cabs to choose from.

Helix if you want more effects, more versatility via the 4CM, and something more user friendly. Also 3rd party IRs are pretty important.


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## Shoeless_jose (Oct 2, 2018)

Helix and one of the ownhammer heavy hitters packs.... Good to go!!! I switched from stock cab sim to the OH IR it was like getting hit in the face with sound it made it so much meaner


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## Eden (Oct 2, 2018)

Fairly surprised in how split this poll has been! I'm trying to decide if all the extra tweaking that the AX8 will permit would be necessary for me, but I think I would just get lost in the sauce, so to speak.

About how much do these Ownhammer IRs go for? They seem to be the most referenced ones from what I've seen


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Oct 2, 2018)

Eden said:


> Fairly surprised in how split this poll has been! I'm trying to decide if all the extra tweaking that the AX8 will permit would be necessary for me, but I think I would just get lost in the sauce, so to speak.
> 
> About how much do these Ownhammer IRs go for? They seem to be the most referenced ones from what I've seen


You could get a IR pack for $50.


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## MASS DEFECT (Oct 2, 2018)

Eden said:


> Fairly surprised in how split this poll has been! I'm trying to decide if all the extra tweaking that the AX8 will permit would be necessary for me, but I think I would just get lost in the sauce, so to speak.
> 
> About how much do these Ownhammer IRs go for? They seem to be the most referenced ones from what I've seen



It's just nice to know that the extra tweaking options for amp models in the ax8 is available when you need it. But as far as I have tried, you dont really NEED to tweak hard with both units. I can play with the Helix with just the first page amp controls fine. They both seem plug and play as far as amp models go.


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## spudmunkey (Oct 2, 2018)

I've owned a few different multi-effects processors before (which...even if they have amp modelers and IRs, it's still what I consider them), and after the first 2 weeks or so, if I was away from my gear for just a couple of days, I feel like I had to completely re-learn how to use them again.

After 30 years of playing guitar, I realized that I need something that's stupid easy to use, almost without the manual. If it's more complicated than that, I'm just not inspired to use it, and then I'll forget _how_ to use it, frustrating me into not using it even more.

I was hours away from plopping down money on a HeadRush because it was so stupid simple, it was a joy to use. Many many people talked me out of it and said to get the Helix instead. I'm happy with the tone I'm getting, but even after having it for a couple of months, and using it almost every day, I still don't have the same "hang" of it as I did the Headrush, in less than 40 minutes in a store with no manual. The Helix is dancing on that line between easy/joy and complicated/frustrating, but I'm giving it a looong fair trial because it does sound better than the Headrush did.

Is the Helix more limited in flexibility than the AX8? Probably. It seems like it, but I haven't used it so i can't say for sure. But I'm at the point in my "career" (ha!) where I get more joy from actually being able to use the gear by just picking it up and playing. I play WAAAAY more guitar now that I've got them all hanging on the wall rather than in cases. I'm lazy like that. I've sold off most of my amps, got annoyed with having to re-build my pedalboard all the time, etc. Sold all of my pedals, except polyphonic stuff the Helix can't do, like the EHX C9, and The Drop.


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## AirForbes1 (Oct 2, 2018)

I've got a Helix and I'm really happy with it. It's really user friendly and didn't take much time at all to get started with it. From the demos I've hear, personally, I think the Axe has better amp modelling, at least they seem to sound better to me. But, I don't think you couldn't (with the right tweaks) get the Helix to sound as good. I went with the Helix because it was easier for me to get, and if anything goes wrong down the road, I feel like it would be easier for me to get repaired, I may be totally wrong about that though. 

I should say though, there hasn't been a Helix update in a while and the last update was just the clean channels of the amps that they released in the update before. From what I've read from TGP, Line 6 are working on something called Helix core (I don't actually know what it is). They say it will allow them to do way more with the Helix then they thought they would. But, this also means that there probably won't be a firmware update for a while.


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## Shask (Oct 2, 2018)

Honestly, it seems like you cant go wrong with either. People love both. People seem to say Fractal sounds better, but Line 6 is easier to use. I would personally chose the AX8, but that is because I have had Fractal rack gear for the last several years, and the HD500 pissed me off so bad I was sick of Line 6 for a while.


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## Flappydoodle (Oct 3, 2018)

Captain Butterscotch said:


> Get the Helix and also pay for some top notch cab IRs.



At which point, why not just use plugins which sound as good as the Helix?


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## Shoeless_jose (Oct 3, 2018)

Flappydoodle said:


> At which point, why not just use plugins which sound as good as the Helix?



Because plugins arent an expression pedal...endless effects and routing optioms. A usb audio interface. A Midi controller for other outboard gear, able to integrate with real amps via 4CM, and gettimg frimware updates adding new amps/fx. Not to mentiom how many VSTs you need to keep up with the options available.


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## littlebadboy (Oct 3, 2018)

Boss GT-1. Costs less than $200 and has all the effeeffects you need. It is also an interface for your DAW. You can also do edits on your computer using Boss Tone Studio. And yeah, it's also a floor pedal to jam or gig.



Everything on my YouTube chanchannel was done with the GT-1. 

I also use a Digitech Drop for down tuning without having a dedicated down tuned guitar.

I can't afford the Helix or Fractal because I'm poor. But I'm sure they are really great sounding too.


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## Shask (Oct 3, 2018)

Flappydoodle said:


> At which point, why not just use plugins which sound as good as the Helix?





Dineley said:


> Because plugins arent an expression pedal...endless effects and routing optioms. A usb audio interface. A Midi controller for other outboard gear, able to integrate with real amps via 4CM, and gettimg frimware updates adding new amps/fx. Not to mentiom how many VSTs you need to keep up with the options available.



All that, and the fact that Plugins have horrible feel. They may sound OK, but are so boring and uninspiring to play because they don't have the dynamic feel and interaction.


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## budda (Oct 3, 2018)

You guys talk about dynamic feel but use incredibly compressed tones a lot


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## Shask (Oct 3, 2018)

budda said:


> You guys talk about dynamic feel but use incredibly compressed tones a lot


I do like compressed tones, but there is a difference between some dynamics, and total flatness. It comes out especially on the huge chugs.... like when you Play Master of Puppets or something....


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## mikah912 (Oct 3, 2018)

AirForbes1 said:


> But, this also means that there probably won't be a firmware update for a while.



There are _multiple_ firmware updates in the works. They never go into Christmas without one, and NAMM is just after that. In fact, they're working on lots of things...


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## AirForbes1 (Oct 3, 2018)

mikah912 said:


> There are _multiple_ firmware updates in the works. They never go into Christmas without one, and NAMM is just after that. In fact, they're working on lots of things...



I see. It's just the impression that I got when I was going through that thread. TBH, I'm pretty happy with what's there now (could use some high gain Orange).


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## spudmunkey (Oct 3, 2018)

mikah912 said:


> There are _multiple_ firmware updates in the works. They never go into Christmas without one, and NAMM is just after that. In fact, they're working on lots of things...



Also, there's been at least one update since February-ish (i think 2.60) and 2.7 is due soon.


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## Albake21 (Oct 3, 2018)

I'm genuinely amazed by how many people here are saying Helix. For some input, about a year ago I went through the same decision. I first bought a Helix LT because of price and the interface. It was alright, but nothing crazy. To be honest, I had a tough time getting the tone I wanted out of it. It wasn't bad, it was just lacking. After a very tough decision I decided to sell it and buy an AX8. I will NEVER forget that moment I plugged my guitar into it and started playing..... the sound and feel was a whole other level compared to the Helix and that was just a standard preset. Fractal has this low end and feel that is way closer to a real amp compared to the Helix. Don't get me wrong, you can definitely get a Helix to sound good, but unless they did major updates in the last year, the feel just wasn't there. It was a pretty major difference to me.

Also I want to note, I was a pretty skeptical at the time about Fractal. I truly thought they would just be the Apple of modelers, but damn how wrong I was.


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## laxu (Oct 3, 2018)

Eden said:


> Fairly surprised in how split this poll has been! I'm trying to decide if all the extra tweaking that the AX8 will permit would be necessary for me, but I think I would just get lost in the sauce, so to speak.



While the advanced options are fun to play with, overall I would call them totally unnecessary. I never bothered messing with them too much on my Axe-Fx 2 as generally just picking the right amp and cab sim with some small tweaking was enough to get me the kind of tone that works for me.

The stock cab sims in the Helix are perfectly fine too but you must play with the settings to tailor them to your tastes. OwnHammer IRs are great but not necessary.


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## laxu (Oct 3, 2018)

spudmunkey said:


> Is the Helix more limited in flexibility than the AX8? Probably. It seems like it, but I haven't used it so i can't say for sure.



It's actually _more_ flexible. While it has less amp models it makes up for it in allowing things like dual amps and more simultaneous effects due to the difference in how the processors are assigned. Both units have the same DSP chips but on the AX8 one is assigned for amp sims (maybe cab sims too) and the other for effects. On the Helix you can assign anything to either processor until you run out of DSP power. This is done using the two paths.

On top of that Helix lets you connect more external devices whether it's pedals or a mic or using the unit as a MIDI controller etc.

OP, if you have a decent audio interface and studio monitors try the Helix Native trial version. It sounds the same as the hardware so you can get an idea how it works for you.


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## Fractal (Oct 3, 2018)

Shask said:


> ...HD500 pissed me off so bad I was sick of Line 6 for a while.



May I ask why?


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## spudmunkey (Oct 3, 2018)

laxu said:


> OP, if you have a decent audio interface and studio monitors try the Helix Native trial version. It sounds the same as the hardware so you can get an idea how it works for you.



I didn't realize they had a trial. That's a great idea. And, if you end up buying a Helix physical unit, you can get the Native for like $60-75, depending on deals/coupons. Very handy. I have the Helix plugged into my amp/speaker, and then I can walk into the other room and plug into my interface, and use my "other"helix without having to move the physical unit around. It's also kinda nice to be able to record a "naked" clip, and then be able to tweak your settings while on a plane on a laptop and headphones. Build a few presets to try out when you can plug in.


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## mikah912 (Oct 3, 2018)

Albake21 said:


> I'm genuinely amazed by how many people here are saying Helix. For some input, about a year ago I went through the same decision. I first bought a Helix LT because of price and the interface. It was alright, but nothing crazy. To be honest, I had a tough time getting the tone I wanted out of it. It wasn't bad, it was just lacking. After a very tough decision I decided to sell it and buy an AX8. I will NEVER forget that moment I plugged my guitar into it and started playing..... the sound and feel was a whole other level compared to the Helix and that was just a standard preset. Fractal has this low end and feel that is way closer to a real amp compared to the Helix. Don't get me wrong, you can definitely get a Helix to sound good, but unless they did major updates in the last year, the feel just wasn't there. It was a pretty major difference to me.
> 
> Also I want to note, I was a pretty skeptical at the time about Fractal. I truly thought they would just be the Apple of modelers, but damn how wrong I was.



To each their own. I sold an AX8 twice precisely because there was no earth-shattering difference. Again, the amp models vary in quality, and there are some I still think Fractal does better to this day. But my favorite Helix amps are all I need. I mean...it'd be nice to have X or Y high gainer in an upcoming update, but I lack for nothing. If you can't get an amazing, tight and clear high gain tone out of the Cartographer, Badonk or Archon models...it's you, not Helix. The feel is responsive and dynamic. The low end is there. The chunk is there. Those are tube-realistic sounds, full stop.

I love the Friedman 2018 model too, but those Line 6 originals are something else.


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## Shask (Oct 3, 2018)

Fractal said:


> May I ask why?


It had a bunch of weird little bugs you had to work around. Like the parallel paths would double the gain, so you had to pad the inputs to make it sound right, and then they would overload effects after the amps, such as delays and such. You always had to mess with levels everywhere or else you would get nasty clipping. One of the best tricks was to pan the sound 100% to one side and mute the other side on the mixer. Line 6 always has a weird feel to me, so I almost always used the Vetta Juice compressor on everything to make it feel normal.

The main thing was the half-assed EQs. Instead of a normal professional 5-band Parametric EQ, you get a bunch of weird EQs that only contain 1 or 2 bands. Most of them would alter the sound even with flat settings, like the Graphic. You had to take up 4-5 slots just to get enough control to be an actual EQ. The display was in %, instead of actual frequencies, so you had no idea what you were adjusting.

I am sure there are more, but those are the main ones that come to mind.... It has been several years ago now.


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## Glades (Oct 4, 2018)

I have the Helix Rack with the Ownhammer cab impulses, and it sounds great to my ears. I am not a tone nerd, and I have never tried the AX8 but I am very happy with it. I am sure both are equally great.


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## laxu (Oct 4, 2018)

spudmunkey said:


> I didn't realize they had a trial. That's a great idea. And, if you end up buying a Helix physical unit, you can get the Native for like $60-75, depending on deals/coupons. Very handy. I have the Helix plugged into my amp/speaker, and then I can walk into the other room and plug into my interface, and use my "other"helix without having to move the physical unit around. It's also kinda nice to be able to record a "naked" clip, and then be able to tweak your settings while on a plane on a laptop and headphones. Build a few presets to try out when you can plug in.



Exactly. Pretty much every VST amp sim comes with a trial so you could also check out Scuffham S-Gear. Far more limited compared to Helix Native but it sounds really good.


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## Eden (Oct 4, 2018)

spudmunkey said:


> I didn't realize they had a trial. That's a great idea. And, if you end up buying a Helix physical unit, you can get the Native for like $60-75, depending on deals/coupons. Very handy. I have the Helix plugged into my amp/speaker, and then I can walk into the other room and plug into my interface, and use my "other"helix without having to move the physical unit around. It's also kinda nice to be able to record a "naked" clip, and then be able to tweak your settings while on a plane on a laptop and headphones. Build a few presets to try out when you can plug in.



I like the idea of this, actually.


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## Flappydoodle (Oct 5, 2018)

Dineley said:


> Because plugins arent an expression pedal...endless effects and routing optioms. A usb audio interface. A Midi controller for other outboard gear, able to integrate with real amps via 4CM, and gettimg frimware updates adding new amps/fx. Not to mentiom how many VSTs you need to keep up with the options available.



But the OP asks about home recording and jamming with friends. 

Expression pedal fair enough. Though you can still buy one and hook it up by MIDI if you want.

OP didn't mention other amps. Hasn't said how he plans to jam with friends (i.e. if he has a power amp, cab etc).

Plugins also get updates, so having firmware updates isn't really a plus. And obviously plugins are much cheaper.

I'm not saying Helix, AX8 etc are bad by any means. But if OP just wants to jam along to songs at home, lay down guitar tracks in a DAW, then he doesn't need a gig-worthy hardware unit.



Shask said:


> All that, and the fact that Plugins have horrible feel. They may sound OK, but are so boring and uninspiring to play because they don't have the dynamic feel and interaction.



Each to their own. Can't say I really notice the difference if using headphones or monitors. Hell, even a mic'd up amp but listening to the recorded tone doesn't feel much different to me. Obviously being in the room with a real amp through a cab is a totally different ball game.


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## Shask (Oct 5, 2018)

Flappydoodle said:


> Each to their own. Can't say I really notice the difference if using headphones or monitors. Hell, even a mic'd up amp but listening to the recorded tone doesn't feel much different to me. Obviously being in the room with a real amp through a cab is a totally different ball game.


I pretty much always use my Axe-FX, etc... and other modelers into a poweramp and cab, bypassing the IR models. Sounds and feels much better.


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## Flappydoodle (Oct 6, 2018)

Shask said:


> I pretty much always use my Axe-FX, etc... and other modelers into a poweramp and cab, bypassing the IR models. Sounds and feels much better.



Oh absolutely. No question about it.

Hell, the sheer volume and air pressure from a cab makes it 10x better than monitors, headphones or PA speakers.


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## Shask (Oct 6, 2018)

Flappydoodle said:


> Oh absolutely. No question about it.
> 
> Hell, the sheer volume and air pressure from a cab makes it 10x better than monitors, headphones or PA speakers.


At home, I pretty much use any of the rigs at a similar volume. Cab still wins. 

I have actually been messing with this recently because I picked up some of those Mooer Preamp pedals, and a Mooer Radar. I have been plugging it right into one 8" M-Audio studio monitor I have. It can sound pretty good, but still never as good as into a guitar cab. This setup is fun though because it is not as complex as the Axe-FX, so I am not tweaking it to death.


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## budda (Oct 6, 2018)

You dont have to tweak the axe fx to death either


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## Albake21 (Oct 6, 2018)

budda said:


> You dont have to tweak the axe fx to death either


The Axe FX is honestly extremely easy to tweak as long as you stay on the first page. If you want to get a little adventurous, go right ahead to the second. But most stuff shouldn't even be touched.


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## Shask (Oct 6, 2018)

budda said:


> You dont have to tweak the axe fx to death either


Don't have to...... but I tend to mess with it more when going direct, because it naturally doesn't sound as good when having to use IRs, and the cab block and all that.


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## axxessdenied (Oct 6, 2018)

The Helix is amazing. When I was at UKTF there was Line 6 booth and the Helix sounded incredible. I was really surprised because I remember the helix didn't sound that great when it was first released. But, they have been pretty active in updating the firmware on the units it seems. The guys from bloodshot dawn ended up using it for their set (both guitarists) and they sounded incredible. 

The Fractal units don't really compare in terms of what you can do with routing. You have additional FX Loops on the helix unit so you can insert stomp boxes, mixers, drum machines, synths, etc into the unit and do much more than just have a guitar processor.


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## Elric (Oct 7, 2018)

If you can only have one and care about tone: Fractal. People will try to tell you that they are in the same class but Fractal is consistently better sounding across the board and it is actually pretty clear to me when they are both in the same room. If you care about features (I/O, sound card, etc) and you are one of those “differences will get lost in a mix people” the Helix is a great value; and it hardly sounds bad. But, if I could have only one; it’d be the FAS unit though.


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## mikah912 (Oct 8, 2018)

Elric said:


> If you can only have one and care about tone: Fractal. People will try to tell you that they are in the same class but Fractal is consistently better sounding across the board and it is actually pretty clear to me when they are both in the same room. If you care about features (I/O, sound card, etc) and you are one of those “differences will get lost in a mix people” the Helix is a great value; and it hardly sounds bad. But, if I could have only one; it’d be the FAS unit though.



As always, to each their own. I've had both at the same time. They absolutely are in the same class. They simply sound different, not consistently better or worse "across the board". Helix models don't even sound consistent to _each other_ across the board. They make leaps with each firmware update just as Fractal has across their many firmware updates. 

I never found a modern high gain amp model on Fractal that does it for me the way the Badonk and Cartographer do on Helix, and similarly, I never found a hot-rodded Marshall on Helix that quite does it for me the way the Marshall JVM410HJS models do on Fractal.

If you care about tone, you're good with any of them. You'll be a bottleneck before any of the hardware is.


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## axxessdenied (Oct 8, 2018)

Elric said:


> If you can only have one and care about tone: Fractal. People will try to tell you that they are in the same class but Fractal is consistently better sounding across the board and it is actually pretty clear to me when they are both in the same room. If you care about features (I/O, sound card, etc) and you are one of those “differences will get lost in a mix people” the Helix is a great value; and it hardly sounds bad. But, if I could have only one; it’d be the FAS unit though.


Not really true anymore. Line 6 has updated the firmware on the helix quite a bit. I think the best thing I heard from one of the guys when a bunch of us were converted to the Helix was "I always thought Line 6 sounded like shit. This thing sounds incredible. I need one!" and this was from a dude running an insane rig and who probably gets some of the better tones in metal these days. It's a serious piece of gear. I didn't like the helix when it initially came out, fyi. Yamaha made Line 6 step up their game.


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## Shoeless_jose (Oct 8, 2018)

mikah912 said:


> As always, to each their own. I've had both at the same time. They absolutely are in the same class. They simply sound different, not consistently better or worse "across the board". Helix models don't even sound consistent to _each other_ across the board. They make leaps with each firmware update just as Fractal has across their many firmware updates.
> 
> I never found a modern high gain amp model on Fractal that does it for me the way the Badonk and Cartographer do on Helix, and similarly, I never found a hot-rodded Marshall on Helix that quite does it for me the way the Marshall JVM410HJS models do on Fractal.
> 
> If you care about tone, you're good with any of them. You'll be a bottleneck before any of the hardware is.




I just want to get off work and dig into this cartographer model so bad now, you mentioning it in this thread made me do some reasearch sounds super fun. Also the 2204 mod has worked fairly well for me for a lot of stuff but to each their own right.


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## Eden (Oct 9, 2018)

I believe that I'm gonna end up going for the Helix. The UI wins obviously and after reading through all these as well as from when I was able to play the LT, it seems like what might be right for me.

RIP that I never explained what my rig would be. Currently I'd probably run it through my Mark V and 2x12 recto cab. Eventually I may condense it down. My thing then is if I would like to get a power amp and still use the 2x12 or go FRFR. Thoughts?


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## Metropolis (Oct 9, 2018)

Eden said:


> I believe that I'm gonna end up going for the Helix. The UI wins obviously and after reading through all these as well as from when I was able to play the LT, it seems like what might be right for me.
> 
> RIP that I never explained what my rig would be. Currently I'd probably run it through my Mark V and 2x12 recto cab. Eventually I may condense it down. My thing then is if I would like to get a power amp and still use the 2x12 or go FRFR. Thoughts?



Really depends what you want, real cab moves more air and feels good giving you that amp in a room sound. Full range monitors or cabinet will give you more control with cab simulations and they don't color how your effects will sound. Obviously it also saves you from micing up a cab in most live situations. PA-speakers with plastic chassis sound often very thin in lower mids and tend to be too bassy in the low end with way too much harsh top end.

Personally I have not yet tried plywood FRFR cab that is designed for playing guitar, so I just ordered one of these to pair with Atomic Amplifire.
https://www.laney.co.uk/products/lfr-112/


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## Shoeless_jose (Oct 9, 2018)

Eden said:


> I believe that I'm gonna end up going for the Helix. The UI wins obviously and after reading through all these as well as from when I was able to play the LT, it seems like what might be right for me.
> 
> RIP that I never explained what my rig would be. Currently I'd probably run it through my Mark V and 2x12 recto cab. Eventually I may condense it down. My thing then is if I would like to get a power amp and still use the 2x12 or go FRFR. Thoughts?



How are you going to be using it with your Mark V ??? And do you have full size Mark V or the 25watt??

You planning on doing 4CM and using it for mostly effects and stuff like that or plugging into the effects loop in and just using the Mark V for power??

My helix into the FX loop of my 5153 absolutely murders stuff.


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## Eden (Oct 9, 2018)

Dineley said:


> How are you going to be using it with your Mark V ??? And do you have full size Mark V or the 25watt??
> 
> You planning on doing 4CM and using it for mostly effects and stuff like that or plugging into the effects loop in and just using the Mark V for power??
> 
> My helix into the FX loop of my 5153 absolutely murders stuff.



4CM primarily. Although I'll definitely be testing it through the FX loop to try just the amp models


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## budda (Oct 9, 2018)

Eden said:


> Currently I'd probably run it through my Mark V and 2x12 recto cab. Eventually I may condense it down. My thing then is if I would like to get a power amp and still use the 2x12 or go FRFR. Thoughts?



You don't *have* to go 4CM with something like the helix but definitely try both ways. By that (since you had just posted) I mean try the effects before the preamp too, without the amp sims, into the Mk V.

As for a rig, cross that bridge after you've owned the unit for a while. Guessing as to what you should do before you even own it is a bit presumptuous


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## Eden (Oct 9, 2018)

Also it's the 90w


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## Eden (Oct 9, 2018)

budda said:


> As for a rig, cross that bridge after you've owned the unit for a while. Guessing as to what you should do before you even own it is a bit presumptuous



You're right about that. I'm just getting hyped and carried away


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## budda (Oct 9, 2018)

Badly. .


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