# If you see something, film it. police brutality content



## kevdes93 (May 15, 2013)

saw this gem going around facebook today


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## Randy (May 15, 2013)

Couldn't make it through the whole thing. That was horrendous.


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## wlfers (May 15, 2013)

A bud of mine sent me a different video last night about police brutality.

It seems bad cops smack the shit out of you to get your hands behind your back, causing the natural reaction of trying to block them from smacking the shit out of you, causing them to smack the shit out of you more (to get your hands behind your back) feeding a loop that only ends when the person is too worn out to block the shit smacking.

I thus far have had mostly positive interactions with the police, and know a few officers who are upstanding individuals. There are good cops out there, it's unfortunate they all aren't that way and there is little repercussion for the ones who abuse their power.


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## kevdes93 (May 15, 2013)

Agreed, 99% of cops are regular joes just doing their duty for their respective communities and i've only ever had good encounters (except for a tiny marijuana mishap  )

The part of the video that got me raging was the guy who got the shit kicked out of him upon being ejected from a flipping car.


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## UnderTheSign (May 15, 2013)

athawulf said:


> I thus far have had mostly positive interactions with the police, and know a few officers who are upstanding individuals. There are good cops out there, it's unfortunate they all aren't that way and there is little repercussion for the ones who abuse their power.


Before the "Fuck tha police yo" stuff starts again... This, so many times this.


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## Randy (May 15, 2013)

I haven't had a very good history with the police. 

I've never personally been physically abused, but I've definitely been mistreated on multiple occasions, despite being completely cooperative.

Also, I've told the story before but I'll mention it again... I live in a small town where "everybody knows everybody". A couple of the local PD had a grudge with a friend of mine, so one night when we were out having drinks, they spotted the both of us outside, pulled him off to the side and took turns holding his arms while the other one pummeled the shit out of him.


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## Watty (May 15, 2013)

Randy said:


> Also, I've told the story before but I'll mention it again... I live in a small town where "everybody knows everybody". A couple of the local PD had a grudge with a friend of mine, so one night when we were out having drinks, they spotted the both of us outside, pulled him off to the side and took turns holding his arms while the other one pummeled the shit out of him.



That shit is not okay and obviously needs to lead to them being fired and charged with assault.

However, for most incidents (i.e. the first couple in the video), the perpetrators don't obey the cops or just don't think they're worth paying attention to. In clip 1, the guy keeps walking with two cops pointing guns/stun guns at him...who the fuck would do that? And in clip number two, they'd obviously told the kids to sit there and be quiet while they figured things out, and he sees fit to get up in what could be construed a confrontational manner. If you're innocent, you're innocent and won't have anything to worry about (at least insofar as most incidents with law abiding cops are concerned). Most of the brutality shown in videos like these, while unwarranted and inappropriate, was carried out against people who opened themselves up to the possibility by acting the way they did. If I'm a cop in today's day and age (esp. with all the gun talk), I'm going to be jumping at every noise and movement going on while making an arrest. I don't see why you'd give them a cause to be worried about what you might do. Am I condoning the behavior? No.


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## Winspear (May 15, 2013)

That video was horrible. Good job I don't live in America and carry a gun, because if I witnessed what was in several of those clips I don't think I could help but shoot the motherfuckers. Straight up abuse of power


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## Randy (May 16, 2013)

Watty said:


> However, for most incidents (i.e. the first couple in the video), the perpetrators don't obey the cops or just don't think they're worth paying attention to. In clip 1, the guy keeps walking with two cops pointing guns/stun guns at him...who the fuck would do that? And in clip number two, they'd obviously told the kids to sit there and be quiet while they figured things out, and he sees fit to get up in what could be construed a confrontational manner. If you're innocent, you're innocent and won't have anything to worry about (at least insofar as most incidents with law abiding cops are concerned). Most of the brutality shown in videos like these, while unwarranted and inappropriate, was carried out against people who opened themselves up to the possibility by acting the way they did. If I'm a cop in today's day and age (esp. with all the gun talk), I'm going to be jumping at every noise and movement going on while making an arrest. I don't see why you'd give them a cause to be worried about what you might do. Am I condoning the behavior? No.



But that's the issue. 

It's easy to say "Oh, a police officer beat an elderly, unarmed woman in broad daylight" and make him pay for it. When you're referring to criminals, there's this inclination for people to say "well, he shoplifted so that's what he gets" like, the instant you do something people disagree with, you have no rights and no amount of force is too much. And a lot of people will get really angry and read this thinking "oh, okay fine, let him go... give him a pat on the back". No, you did something wrong, you deserve to go to jail and/or pay a fine for it. That's what the democratically elected representatives of society have decided is a reasonable penalty for what you've done. 

Being beaten in the legs mercilessly because you ran from the cops is unnecessary; a "resisting arrest" charge, leading to an extra couple weeks in jail really should suffice.

My point being, our standard for what's acceptable behavior by police shouldn't be graded on a curve just because they're dealing with criminals. The job in and of itself gives the police the discretion to hand cuff, detain and even subdue people if and when necessary. The job, by design, requires you to interact with people that have done things that run counter to culture's acceptance. A head level enough to handle that is a _requirement_ for taking that job.


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## Captain Shoggoth (May 16, 2013)

I generally take the side of the police, or, I should say, don't have any kind of agenda or bias or whatever against them.

But the notion of not being able to film your police is fucking ludicrous, and if anyone ever told me I wasn't allowed to I'm fairly sure I'd have a hard time not saying something to that effect in response


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## Watty (May 16, 2013)

Randy said:


> But that's the issue.
> 
> It's easy to say "Oh, a police officer beat an elderly, unarmed woman in broad daylight" and make him pay for it. When you're referring to criminals, there's this inclination for people to say "well, he shoplifted so that's what he gets" like, the instant you do something people disagree with, you have no rights and no amount of force is too much. And a lot of people will get really angry and read this thinking "oh, okay fine, let him go... give him a pat on the back". No, you did something wrong, you deserve to go to jail and/or pay a fine for it. That's what the democratically elected representatives of society have decided is a reasonable penalty for what you've done.
> 
> ...



I hope I didn't insinuate any of what you were replying to. I don't think the cops should be given a pass because they're dealing with criminals. Beating a shoplifter is obviously more than shortsighted and uncalled for, just as holding a taser on someone long after they're down is more than a bit overkill.

I'm simply saying most of the people in that video encouraged the behavior on the cops' parts, not that the officers were justified in their response. If a police office with a gun leveled at you tells you to get on the ground, you get on the fucking ground; you don't shrug and continue walking. If you've been "detained" and are told to sit tight while the cops figure things out, you sit tight; you don't quickly get up with a confrontational look on your face. Maybe it's just me having been raised to respect the police and what they do, but it seems pretty straightforward. I mean, it's in your best interests to comply and obey...the innocent man has nothing to hide and they certainly won't beat on you (unless they're corrupt, as in your story) unless you give them a damn good reason. And in the case of being beaten in the legs....yeah, it's excessive, but he shouldn't have run in the first place. I'd rather the cops be rough (read: not excessive) on a suspect in order to prevent him from getting away and potentially committing a more significant crime. I'd be pissed if someone's life were taken by a criminal who'd escaped custody because the police were too docile in handling him. 

And we have very little context for these "arrests" in the video, which can make all the difference. If the guy had just come from killing someone...I don't care how rough the cops are with him. If he'd kept 3 girls prisoner and repeatedly raped them (current case), I would DEFINITELY have condoned pretty much anything the cops did to that guy while bringing him in. There are limits to which you can violate our social contract and still get decent treatment...if you cross them, all bets are off as far as I'm concerned.

Edit: I realize I represented two contrary views, but I hope I was clear as to the clarifier that separates the kind of treatment you get. Run of mill crime? NO justification for acting in the way represented in the video. "Horrific" crime? ...you get the idea.


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## Hollowway (May 16, 2013)

Captain Shoggoth said:


> I generally take the side of the police, or, I should say, don't have any kind of agenda or bias or whatever against them.
> 
> But the notion of not being able to film your police is fucking ludicrous, and if anyone ever told me I wasn't allowed to I'm fairly sure I'd have a hard time not saying something to that effect in response



Yeah, the Supreme Court has made it plenty clear that it is entirely legal to film the police. I just read an article about a beating where a lady and her daughter's BF told them they were filming the cops doing the beating. The cops just kept doing it. Then then later they grabbed the phones and deleted one of the videos. I guess the lesson here is if you film something like that, get that stuff online asap. Otherwise it's your word against theirs, and people will typically side with the cops, as most of them are normal people. I applaud people who film them - heck, I like anyone to film any crime - because that's the only way they'll be able to weed out the bad ones.


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## straightshreddd (May 16, 2013)

Randy said:


> I haven't had a very good history with the police.
> 
> I've never personally been physically abused, but I've definitely been mistreated on multiple occasions, despite being completely cooperative.




Every single time I've ever had to deal with police, I've been fully cooperative and polite. 80% of those times, I've been met with adrenaline-filled/in-your-face rage, totally rude assholeness, or pretentiousness. 

Probably the one that still makes me angry to this day was when I got "arrested" last year. I got held up by the cops because I was drunk and got into an argument with my cousin, so the cops came over to see what's up. 

I told them I was drunk and that I just needed to cool off. They then told me that I was going to be taken in an ambulance to the hospital. 

I told them I was fine, I was just a little upset. They then repeated several times that I was going to the hospital. I informed them that I do not have any health insurance and the ambulance ride alone will put me in at a least a year's worth of debt, let alone the doctor coming to check on me for no reason. 

They fed me some bull about how I can go on a payment plan, and I demanded several times(calmly and respectfully) that I be let go, but they declined. I even asked if I was under arrest and the one said "No, we just wanna take you to the hospital to make sure you don't have alcohol poisoning." Mind you, I was drunk, but I was also fully coherent and speaking fine. If I had alcohol poisoning, I'd have been passed out puking in my sleep.

Finally, the ambulance got there and I just started running. Quite possibly the fastest I've ever ran in my life. 

They couldn't catch me, so I chilled out in a shopping plaza and started walking. The one cruiser spotted me and I could have sworn in the name of Gary Busey that he was gonna hit me. 

So, I stopped. Got on my knees. Put my hands behind my head. Interlocked my fingers and waited.

He then says nothing and tackles me to the ground on my stomach, punches me in the back of the head about 3-4 times while yelling "Yeah, you like that, little bitch?!"

He locks the handcuffs excruciatingly tight and puts me and the back of his cruiser. I asked him why he had to hit me and he responded with "Little bitch. You're lucky I didn't whoop your ass even more."

Then, we met with the other cop and they both laughed and kept calling me a dumb bitch and the one goes "Oh, you thought you were gonna be in debt with the ambulance ride? We're not even gonna lock you up. I'm charging you with resisting arrest and we're still sending you to the hospital in the ambulance. That should hold you off for a while." 

I tried reminding them that I was never under arrest, so I can't be charged with resisting arrest and the one told me "Shut the fuck up. Oh, well."

Then, all the EMT's and the two initial cops all stood in a circle laughing and cracking jokes about how stupid I was for about 20 mins and I was hauled off. When the nurses saw all the marks on my face and arms(my wrists looked like someone cut them. The handcuffs were so tight my hands had a purplish tint) they just grimaced and walked away. Didn't even ask what happened.


I'm still in debt from the ambulance company, the hospital, and I owe in fines for the resisting charge.

I wish someone had been there to film that. I sincerely hope that all those EMT's and those two cops go through something terrifyingly shitty.


Oh, and when I went to court, a homeless lady got an $80(plus the $33 in court fees) fine for riding a bike at night without reflectors. I think that pissed me off more than why I was there.


I have met and dealt with cops who were very chill dudes. Shit, I even got out of a few things because I used to train with several cops at my old Brazilian Jiujitsu school, but I have several other stories that allow me to rightfully say "Fuck most police." 

I feel the training and qualifications to become a police officer should be as difficult as it is to become a doctor. It's too easy to be a cop, thus too easy for assholes to become them.

I worked with two spoiled dickheads who fed off their parents wealth, that are cops now. We worked together while they were taking all the tests and training and what not and they'd tell me how unbelievably stupid the tests were. 

I say, if you wanna be a cop, you should go through at least 4 years of elite training and you should be analysed thoroughly throughout that training. 


And on that note, here's some LOC





Stza- "It's a statement to the world, saying to the public, 'Watch your ass.'
The cops can come into your house at anytime. You have no more rights
anymore. This is the world of big business, and if you don't wanna play
the game you'd better be prepared to be locked up in prison or out on the
streets. The cops are like another gang, only like, maybe the biggest,
y'know? We're all fuckin' helpless. Fuck the police."


/Rant


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## Nile (May 17, 2013)

There should be some self defense rule vs police brutality when it occurs.


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## Cynic (May 17, 2013)

inb4fuckthepolicecomments


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## pink freud (May 17, 2013)

Watty said:


> And we have very little context for these "arrests" in the video, which can make all the difference. If the guy had just come from killing someone...I don't care how rough the cops are with him. If he'd kept 3 girls prisoner and repeatedly raped them (current case), I would DEFINITELY have condoned pretty much anything the cops did to that guy while bringing him in. There are limits to which you can violate our social contract and still get decent treatment...if you cross them, all bets are off as far as I'm concerned.



The idea behind the modern justice system is that no matter how despicable a person may be, they are still afforded the rights of everybody else. Violation of the social contract is supposed to bring about punishment that is in accord with the social contract. The US's social contract doesn't include what these officers did.

It is understandable that we feel violent tendencies towards people who commit certain acts, but part of OUR agreement in the social contract is that we don't get to act on them, and instead let our justice system take care of it.


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## Xaios (May 17, 2013)

Boy, I'm glad I don't live where you guys live. Outside of roadside checkstops (where I've never been given any trouble because I don't drink), the only encounter I've ever had with the police was this: one night a few years ago, in the middle of winter at about 8PM, me and some buddies tied a little crazy carpet sled to the back of my friend's truck and took turns spinning around in an ice-covered parking lot on the thing. A couple cops came over from the Starbucks that was nearby when they saw what we were doing. They told us we should stop because it didn't look particularly safe. They weren't dicks about it at all, and they genuinely seemed concerned.

That's it.


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## dcoughlin1 (May 17, 2013)

I've only had 3 encounters with the police and none of them of them involved me being physically beaten there was plenty of verbal abuse. The one time I got arrested when I was 15 I was walking down the street texting and then out of nowhere I saw flashing lights and a woman with a gun pointed at my face. They said I was doing graffiti when I was just going to the deli and because I had a sharpie in my school bag from school they brought me in saying they caught me in the act of doing graffiti. Even though the graffiti they were talking about was done with red spray paint. The whole ride to the station the guy driving was calling me a "faggot" and a"loser" because I was wearing a Mets sweater and have long hair.
Another time an unmarked police car came up to me and searched my car because I pulled over because my mother was calling me they kept saying I was a "druggie" to my mom on the phone even though I don't even use drugs and they threw everything in my car all over the floor on the drivers side. When I said something I was told to shut the fuck up around a dozen times by all 4 of the officers.


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## flexkill (May 17, 2013)

I have had many encounters with the police in my younger years.....and 99% of them bad. All of you who say 99% of Police are good Police and its the few bad that give them a bad image....sorry that is BULLSHIT! I would bet that it is the exact opposite! 99% are bad and thats why the good few are not recognized.

EXAMPLE: When I was in my early twenties I was arrested with a group of friends for "Public Intoxication". I was the tattooed shaved head guy so this one cop decided to make an example of me I guess. So he starts with shouting at me with his nose practically touching my face and shit and this whole time I'm cuffed and chained to a bench. I just looked him in his eyes the whole time not even flinching. Then he proceeds to start the whole "Ohhh you think your a bad ass" talk ....again all in my face. He then proceeds to unchain me from the bench and takes me to an empty holding cell and shuts the door. In comes another Cop as well. He tells me it's my lucky day and starts removing his utility belt/Holster and weapon....then he punched me three times in the face while I am still cuffed. After his freebies, he talked some more shit then uncuffed me and we went at it! As soon as I started getting the better of him....BINGO....the other Cop, who hadn't done a thing up to this point, whacks me in the back with one of those telescoping metal batons. Let me tell you....that shit HURT! In the end the Cop that I scuffled with puts in his report that I spit on him while being arrested, which is a total lie, and if you think the judge liked hearing that one of his Cops was spit on.....lets just say no....no he didn't.


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## Rev2010 (May 17, 2013)

I have an idea to help this - require all officers to have on body cameras recording all the time. If the camera is disabled, blocked, or tampered with they get charged for criminal conduct. With digital camera equipment so dirt cheap these days, and tiny memory cards that can store plenty of hours worth of HD video I can't see why this isn't yet suggested for implementation, I mean they do it for their vehicles.

I never really got into much trouble with the police when I was younger but the few times we did have run ins most of the time they were mad cool. There was one time though, sounds almost similar to dcoughlin1's story up above^^, when I was walking with some of my friends and a few girls. We were like 18 or 19. They were walking slow as hell and I walk fast so I was ahead of them. I had long red hair at the time as well, thrash metal look. I stopped next to a mailbox to wait for them to catch up and out of nowhere this police wagon (big type) pulls up and this big bellied white cop jumps out, followed by what appeared to be a rookie he was training, and tells me to put my hands on the side of the wagon. I was in disbelief. I said, "What? are you serious? Why?". And he says, "I saw your hands in the mailbox!! Get your hands against the van". I put my hands against the van and said, "I never even touched the mailbox I was waiting for those friends there to catch up. What would I want with mail anyway??". He pats me down and threatens to take me in!!! I told him I don't have anything and didn't do anything. I forgot what he'd said after that but eventually he warned me or some shit then told the other cop something then they jumped back in and sped off.

I'm guessing 100% that was his way of teaching rookies to harass youth randomly for kicks, no joke.


Rev.


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## straightshreddd (May 18, 2013)

flexkill said:


> All of you who say 99% of Police are good Police and its the few bad that give them a bad image....sorry that is BULLSHIT! I would bet that it is the exact opposite! 99% are bad and thats why the good few are not recognized.



Dude, this is so true, it's not even funny.


A couple of you might remember a thread I posted a while back about my out-of-control little brother. Well, around the time of that thread, two officers came to my house regarding gang-related shit with my brother.

They were both with the juvenile department. One of them sat there for about 30 minutes trying to talk to my brother about how real shit gets when you're on your own. He even, in one of the most candid speeches I've ever heard, said that almost all the cops in our town are guys who joined for the fun of it, the excitement of putting guys away, and care nothing about what's right. He told my bro that he joined the juvenile department because he felt that's where adult criminals start and wanted to keep kids out of trouble. 

I truly have respect for that guy and he's one of the few cops I've encountered that seemed to actually care. 

Power and authority over other human beings is extremely valuable in our world. One of these days... Straight to the moon.

haha Nah, but forreal. One day, people will band together and end this capitalistic, power-hungry regime.


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## axxessdenied (May 18, 2013)

I haven't been in the United States too much. Last time, in Washington, DC. We had a cop give us a huge speech about "what if a terrorist attack happened" and our car was parked where it was while the attack was occuring as he was writing out our parking ticket.... 

What the hell does a damn parking ticket have to do with terrorism?!?!?! We drove away laughing our ....ing asses off. LOL.


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## tacotiklah (May 18, 2013)

Nile said:


> There should be some self defense rule vs police brutality when it occurs.



There is. The constitution says that you cannot be denied life, liberty or property without due process, and also bars cruel and unusual punishment. Since cops beating the shit out of you unwarranted doesn't fall under due process, you have every right to defend yourself. I know that if a cop starts wailing into me for no reason I'm going to hit back. It's not a macho thing, but the simple fact that I don't let people swing on me; badge or not. To me their a person like everyone else. I get that they have a shit job, but they're the ones stupid enough to take the ....ing badge in the first place. If they don't like it or the pressure is too much, find a new job.


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## flexkill (May 18, 2013)

ghstofperdition said:


> There is. The constitution says that you cannot be denied life, liberty or property without due process, and also bars cruel and unusual punishment. Since cops beating the shit out of you unwarranted doesn't fall under due process, you have every right to defend yourself. I know that if a cop starts wailing into me for no reason I'm going to hit back.


While you are technically correct, I hope you understand that by showing any kind of resistance against a Cop warranted or otherwise could get you killed and they will more than likely walk away Scott free. They will lie, lie, and lie some more...and then every one of their gang members (Cops= gang members because thats exactly what they are, a gang!) will lie for them as well.


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## Randy (May 19, 2013)

Not sure if this belongs here or the gun thread but:

Hofstra student was killed by police, authorities say | Fox News


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## flexkill (May 19, 2013)

Randy said:


> Not sure if this belongs here or the gun thread but:
> 
> Hofstra student was killed by police, authorities say | Fox News







What a shame man.


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## ghostred7 (May 19, 2013)

Randy said:


> Not sure if this belongs here or the gun thread but:
> 
> Hofstra student was killed by police, authorities say | Fox News


Sad. 12yr veteran of the force, eh? 

Things like this piss me off way more than overabuse of power. The law enforcement departments should require WAY more training and qualification with their firearms. There was no reason why that girl had to die. The officer should of been able to hit the badguy wherever he wanted in that short of a distance. Hell...I can quick-draw and hit where I want @ 25yds or less and I'm rusty. This is inexcusable.


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## Rev2010 (May 19, 2013)

ghostred7 said:


> Things like this piss me off way more than overabuse of power.



Seriously? A group of cops beating the piss out of someone who didn't commit any serious crime and abusing their power just because they can pisses you off less than a scared nervous cop accidentally hitting a victim when his life is threatened? Veteran or not people .... under serious stress, no matter the training, under such situations hitting a target is much harder than one might think. And I doubt the perp was standing dead still, he was likely moving a lot. Have you ever played paintball? I don't mean to sound silly bringing the word "paintball" into this but one thing it taught me very well even in the very beginning (I've played for years) is that firearm play is NOTHING like in the cop/robber and war movies. Especially when you come *face to face*. People panic and your accuracy in firing turns to shit. Sorry, but someone knowingly abusing their power to beat people senseless is quite different than an officer accidentally hitting a civilian when the gun suddenly gets pointed at him. I bet he's extremely distraught right now.


Rev.


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## straightshreddd (May 19, 2013)

Randy said:


> Not sure if this belongs here or the gun thread but:
> 
> Hofstra student was killed by police, authorities say | Fox News



Damn, that sucks, really huge. :/

If I were the cop, though, I'd have went to the family's house myself and apologized. Even if they didn't accept and were just angry stares.


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## estabon37 (May 21, 2013)

I've wondered for a long time whether or not increasing funding to policing, and then offering better pay and standards for officers would change this situation. It's too late at night (early in the morning) for me to be bothered looking up a bunch of numbers, but the best way to attract good, intelligent people to a job is to offer a better pay than they'd get elsewhere. You get what you pay for, and offering average pay basically guarantees that above-average people will not even look at the job. Apparently the standard police pay in London, Ontario is greater than high ranking personnel in many Us police forces.



> Only in Orange County, Calif., where the average home costs $500,000, do salaries rival those in London -- $82,020 US.



Want quality policing? Just move to a neighbourhood where there aren't any criminals!


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## pink freud (May 21, 2013)

estabon37 said:


> I've wondered for a long time whether or not increasing funding to policing, and then offering better pay and standards for officers would change this situation. It's too late at night (early in the morning) for me to be bothered looking up a bunch of numbers, but the best way to attract good, intelligent people to a job is to offer a better pay than they'd get elsewhere. You get what you pay for, and offering average pay basically guarantees that above-average people will not even look at the job. Apparently the standard police pay in London, Ontario is greater than high ranking personnel in many Us police forces.
> 
> 
> 
> Want quality policing? Just move to a neighbourhood where there aren't any criminals!



Higher pay but higher (and more immediate) consequences for bad behavior is something I could support.


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## tacotiklah (May 23, 2013)

estabon37 said:


> Want quality policing? Just move to a neighbourhood where there aren't any criminals!



>Assumes that higher income and more wealth means there's less crime
>Forgets 2008 market crash

Seriously though, crime knows no social class; it just puts on a different face. In the ghetto you may people shooting each other and whatnot, but theft and extortion are things you'll find among the wealthy more often than not.

Kind of a funny, but I knew of some people that lived in one of the most posh neighborhoods in my area and I found out later they were big time meth dealers. Money just hides your crime a little bit better.


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## Randy (Jun 4, 2013)

Video captures Jasper, Texas, police officers beating woman


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## flexkill (Jun 4, 2013)

Randy said:


> Video captures Jasper, Texas, police officers beating woman


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## mcrdsd911 (Jun 4, 2013)

I try not to judge and i'm usually on the side of officers, but the force was a little to much. Apprehending suspects is the key, not beating the sh$t out of persons


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## baptizedinblood (Jun 4, 2013)

ghostred7 said:


> Sad. 12yr veteran of the force, eh?
> 
> Things like this piss me off way more than overabuse of power. The law enforcement departments should require WAY more training and qualification with their firearms. There was no reason why that girl had to die. The officer should of been able to hit the badguy wherever he wanted in that short of a distance. Hell...I can quick-draw and hit where I want @ 25yds or less and I'm rusty. This is inexcusable.




Easy to talk when you're sitting in the comfort of your home on a computer.


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## SenorDingDong (Jun 5, 2013)

I'm not going to cop bash because I have my own thoughts and feelings on things and it would take too long to get into (also I don't feel like having a long argument on line right now), but I have to ask: how was the very first clip brutality? The guy obviously had a weapon of some sort and his body language when he turned to the officer suggested he was about to attack. I don't think so many shots were warranted, but neither do I believe the officer's reaction was unwarranted. The man wasn't stopping, then he turned toward the first officer with what looked like every intention of taking a swing with whatever object he was holding (can't tell if it is a hammer, or a pick, or what).


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## benduncan (Jun 22, 2013)

Randy said:


> Video captures Jasper, Texas, police officers beating woman



i lol'd when the cop fell over backwards while trying to drag her.


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## jwade (Jun 22, 2013)

We're pretty lucky here in Calgary that a substantial percentage of the police force is made up of genuinely helpful people that go out of their way to be really cool about most things...

but there is the flipside, and that small percentage of seriously violent, unstable bully-types do some incredibly illegal shit. The downtown core of the city tends to have those assholes out in force, dealing with the drunken idiot children at the clubs, and they almost always go overboard. a lot of them have that 'i'm a cop, i can stomp your ass if i want' mindset, and they don't often bother to make sure they're going after the right person until after they've handed out a serious injury.


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## JoeyW (Jun 25, 2013)

Meet The 17-Year-Old Who Blew The Lid Off Racial Profiling With His iPod

Sorry if this has already been posted somewhere, but I think this fits the topic of the thread.


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## flint757 (Jun 25, 2013)

Watty said:


> And we have very little context for these "arrests" in the video, which can make all the difference. If the guy had just come from killing someone...I don't care how rough the cops are with him. If he'd kept 3 girls prisoner and repeatedly raped them (current case), I would DEFINITELY have condoned pretty much anything the cops did to that guy while bringing him in. There are limits to which you can violate our social contract and still get decent treatment...if you cross them, all bets are off as far as I'm concerned.



Vigilante justice is never okay.

Playing into your scenario however, sometimes people get wrongly accused. In such a situation you are promoting innocent people getting hurt as well. All that aside, even if the perp is guilty as hell that is not and should not be how are law/legal system works.



ghstofperdition said:


> There is. The constitution says that you cannot be denied life, liberty or property without due process, and also bars cruel and unusual punishment. Since cops beating the shit out of you unwarranted doesn't fall under due process, you have every right to defend yourself. I know that if a cop starts wailing into me for no reason I'm going to hit back. It's not a macho thing, but the simple fact that I don't let people swing on me; badge or not. To me their a person like everyone else. I get that they have a shit job, but they're the ones stupid enough to take the ....ing badge in the first place. If they don't like it or the pressure is too much, find a new job.



Good luck with that. The law takes the police word over any civilian and if you swing you are asking to be accused of drawing first blood. Now you've just justified, in the legal sense, your abuse from the police as far as any judge is concerned.



flexkill said:


> While you are technically correct, I hope you understand that by showing any kind of resistance against a Cop warranted or otherwise could get you killed and they will more than likely walk away Scott free. They will lie, lie, and lie some more...and then every one of their gang members (Cops= gang members because thats exactly what they are, a gang!) will lie for them as well.







Randy said:


> Not sure if this belongs here or the gun thread but:
> 
> Hofstra student was killed by police, authorities say | Fox News



That's a shame, but it does seem to be an accident. As far as the police code of conduct I'm pretty sure he is not supposed to open fire on a suspect with a hostage. I can't say I would have reacted differently in his shoes, though, and he probably feels terrible. 8 shots seems a bit excessive however.

This goes to show why 'everyone having guns' isn't necessarily a good thing. Look what one stray bullet just did and it was done by someone who is supposedly trained no less. It killed a poor girl who was just about to finish college.


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## will_shred (Jul 22, 2013)

> I have had many encounters with the police in my younger years.....and 99% of them bad. All of you who say 99% of Police are good Police and its the few bad that give them a bad image....sorry that is BULLSHIT! I would bet that it is the exact opposite! 99% are bad and thats why the good few are not recognized.



Couldn't agree more. One big thing I remember from high school is that pretty much anyone I knew who was interested in police work/criminal justice were the bullies, the jocks, the general assholes. 

there's a huge collection of stories from around rochester of the RPD abusing the shit out of Rochester's citizens. While they do nothing at all about the HUGE gang violence problems in the bad parts of town. The city board decided to bring in a ton of state troopers to clean up the RPD's mess which ends up being worse yet because these people don't know the city, or the people. Rochester is a small enough city to where that's a very important factor in police work. 

For example, this happened not to long ago. There was a house punk show going on (very common), no laws were being violated, not even any under age drinking or anything like that. They got a noise complaint and instead of, you know, knocking and telling them to quiet down they actually raided the house. breaking windows, excessive use of pepper spray and tazers, just ....ing the place up and putting a few people in the hospital. I don't believe any charges were filed against anyone at the show.


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## Watty (Jul 22, 2013)

will_shred said:


> Couldn't agree more. One big thing I remember from high school is that pretty much anyone I knew who was interested in police work/criminal justice were the bullies, the jocks, the general assholes.



Because we all know that no one ever really changes? High School is a really poor example of character if not only because it's all adolescent posturing. Once you've graduated and enter the real world, you're no longer surrounded by people who give a shit about you and yours....thus, no reason to continue acting the way you did in school. Granted, you might still be an asshole, but it'll now be because you didn't show up to work on time, not because you didn't do your homework. All the people I knew in HS that fit into the categories you describe either turned out better than I thought they would or just ended up being deadbeat losers. Doesn't necessarily fit your model regardless of criminal justice implications.



will_shred said:


> For example, this happened not to long ago. There was a house punk show going on (very common), no laws were being violated, not even any under age drinking or anything like that. They got a noise complaint and instead of, you know, knocking and telling them to quiet down they actually raided the house. breaking windows, excessive use of pepper spray and tazers, just ....ing the place up and putting a few people in the hospital. I don't believe any charges were filed against anyone at the show.



I can't help but think that every single one of the "bad cop" stories presented in this thread has other factors at play that you either don't know or are choosing not to post in order to further your point. Context is everything, and when it comes to criminal justice and confrontation with people who don't have a healthy respect for the law, it becomes infinitely more important.


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## vampiregenocide (Jul 22, 2013)

This is one of a few reasons I could never live in America. Even being white, how can you feel safe if you can't even trust those who are there to protect you? I know someone is a police officer here in the UK, and they can't get away with that shit.


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## Watty (Jul 22, 2013)

vampiregenocide said:


> Even being white



And here we go again....this sort of mentality (whether intentional or not) is a large part of the problem. Not calling you out as a racist, because you happen to (unfortunately) be right but the fact remains that so many people (regardless of race) adopt an outward appearance that is immediately suspect that it begs the question as to whether or not they're asking for "trouble." Not trying to unpack everything contained within the argument I'm making, but I think a lot of the "bad cop" stories would not have even been an issue if more people took this and other aspects of the way they conduct themselves to heart.

Edit: To make it a bit more clear, despite being "white," if you dress, talk, and act in a way that speaks to a criminal mindset, I'd expect you'd be treated that way initially....with suspicion.


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## Grand Moff Tim (Jul 22, 2013)

vampiregenocide said:


> This is one of a few reasons I could never live in America. Even being white, how can you feel safe if you can't even trust those who are there to protect you? I know someone is a police officer here in the UK, and they can't get away with that shit.



For the record, these problems aren't endemic or anything. There are _some_ parts of _some_ cities in _some_ states where _some _of the cops aren't always on the level. For every American you find bemoaning the behaviour of the police, you could likely find hundreds who either have no complaints, or have nice things to say.


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## The Reverend (Jul 23, 2013)

Watty said:


> And here we go again....this sort of mentality (whether intentional or not) is a large part of the problem. Not calling you out as a racist, because you happen to (unfortunately) be right but the fact remains that so many people (regardless of race) adopt an outward appearance that is immediately suspect that it begs the question as to whether or not they're asking for "trouble." Not trying to unpack everything contained within the argument I'm making, but I think a lot of the "bad cop" stories would not have even been an issue if more people took this and other aspects of the way they conduct themselves to heart.
> 
> Edit: To make it a bit more clear, despite being "white," if you dress, talk, and act in a way that speaks to a criminal mindset, I'd expect you'd be treated that way initially....with suspicion.



Watty, come on man. I'm a hipster. I love clothes and modern fashion. I can give you personal anecdote after anecdote where I've been mistreated, profiled, and even falsely arrested (twice!) while offering no resistance or attitude. I grew up in South Dakota, where I was the only black kid in my school, so I don't use any sort of rap slang or even sound like a black person is 'supposed' to sound. There aren't always extenuating circumstances where mistreatment by the cops can be justified, or where victim-blaming is somewhat rational.



Grand Moff Tim said:


> For the record, these problems aren't endemic or anything. There are _some_ parts of _some_ cities in _some_ states where _some _of the cops aren't always on the level. For every American you find bemoaning the behaviour of the police, you could likely find hundreds who either have no complaints, or have nice things to say.



I think it strongly depends on what America you live in. I've become convinced that reality is split into so many dimensions that even though I can talk to you and you can talk to me we don't exist in the same world. Reports of abuse racially motivated or not should be so rare as to warrant huge national scandals, yet looking at the number of videos, stories, and articles about it happening lessens your point some. Even if it's 1% of all cops abusing their power, unreported cases as well, it's too much.


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## Grand Moff Tim (Jul 23, 2013)

The Reverend said:


> I think it strongly depends on what America you live in. I've become convinced that reality is split into so many dimensions that even though I can talk to you and you can talk to me we don't exist in the same world. Reports of abuse racially motivated or not should be so rare as to warrant huge national scandals, yet looking at the number of videos, stories, and articles about it happening lessens your point some. Even if it's 1% of all cops abusing their power, unreported cases as well, it's too much.



Nah, that doesn't really lessen my point so much as it agrees with it completely. I don't deny that there are shitty cops, or that different peolpe have different experiences with them. I was just pointing out that the bad stuff you hear about is more anecdotal than an indication of how _most_ cops are. 

And yes, even 1% of cops abusing their power is too much. I'm not trying to sweep the bad cops under the rug when I say most of them aren't bad, I'm just trying to dispel the idea that America is rife with police corruption around every corner, which our English friend seems to think. 

There are plenty of legitimate reasons one could come up with to not want to live in the US, I just wanted to point out that, for the most part, the conduct of our police isn't one of them. A reason not to move to, say, south central LA or someplace like that, sure, but not a blanket reason to avoid the entire country.


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## larry (Jul 23, 2013)

I look suspicious.. . baggy gray jeans, long black t-shirt, dark skin, prominent brow, long bushy hair, broad shoulders, stocky build, i don't smile much and i keep to myself. i mean, that's just me... i think most folks are busy with their own lives & social opinions to even be assed with anything from me and i'm okay with that. sounds sad, but i'm much more social on here... some of the looks i get in public, would likely make a few of you question humanity. why should i worry about how i 'look'? if i wanted to continually be profiled then i would have stayed in the phillipines.

thankfully i have not been mistreated by the police but my point is, at 33 i am afraid of them. i find it terrifying that they are basically driving around looking for me most of the time. i'm not sure if i have a real stake in this argument, i just felt it was a good time to open up because i trust y'all.


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## The Reverend (Jul 23, 2013)

Grand Moff Tim said:


> Nah, that doesn't really lessen my point so much as it agrees with it completely. I don't deny that there are shitty cops, or that different peolpe have different experiences with them. I was just pointing out that the bad stuff you hear about is more anecdotal than an indication of how _most_ cops are.
> 
> And yes, even 1% of cops abusing their power is too much. I'm not trying to sweep the bad cops under the rug when I say most of them aren't bad, I'm just trying to dispel the idea that America is rife with police corruption around every corner, which our English friend seems to think.
> 
> There are plenty of legitimate reasons one could come up with to not want to live in the US, I just wanted to point out that, for the most part, the conduct of our police isn't one of them. A reason not to move to, say, south central LA or someplace like that, sure, but not a blanket reason to avoid the entire country.



I totally missed that point. I think I somehow forgot you were talking to Ross. Chalk it up to liberal fury or something.


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## Watty (Jul 23, 2013)

The Reverend said:


> Watty, come on man. I'm a hipster. I love clothes and modern fashion. I can give you personal anecdote after anecdote where I've been mistreated, profiled, and even falsely arrested (twice!) while offering no resistance or attitude. I grew up in South Dakota, where I was the only black kid in my school, so I don't use any sort of rap slang or even sound like a black person is 'supposed' to sound. There aren't always extenuating circumstances where mistreatment by the cops can be justified, or where victim-blaming is somewhat rational.



Humorous:

Well there's your problem man, how many african american hipsters are there really? 

Serious:

No, really, I really don't see many non-white hipsters....and I live in the northwest (i.e. Portland and Seattle much)

Seriously serious:

Maybe it's just me then, but I don't give a shit how much melanin you've got in your skin or who your parents were. I guess I just wanted to hope that our police officers would feel the same...but then again, we do live in America, where the stereotype reigns supreme. Maybe it's justified, maybe it's not. Maybe it's solely to do with racism, maybe the cop is just really into stats and he follows them religiously. Maybe every story told here is 100% true, and again, maybe not. Regardless of any implications to do with how the system works and the people that operate (whether for better or for worse) within it....it's, quite unfortunately, a necessary aspect of our society. Perhaps some of the suggestions levied here can actually be applied to try and help the situation, but until that happens, adopting a blanket ".... the police" mentality isn't going to get anyone anywhere.





Edit: For the record, Hipster = modern fashion like 1 = 2...you might be able to get there with some weird argument, but when you do, you look like that much more of a hipster douche. And I say that with the utmost derision for everything that the word hipster (and "fashion" for that matter) stands for.


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## The Reverend (Jul 23, 2013)

Watty said:


> Humorous:
> 
> Well there's your problem man, how many african american hipsters are there really?
> 
> ...



I'm not one of the guys here saying, "F--k the police, they're all crooked." I understand the basis for racial profiling, though I think it's ridiculous in practice to think you can just look at someone and tell that they're a criminal. I guess if I had like East Side Crip Killer or something tattooed on my face it be practical, but yeah. I also don't think most cops are inherently racist. If anything, both minorities and cops have created this situation where there is an undue amount of tension between them. There are certain expectations this creates that I believe lead cops to behave a certain way, as well as people they're dealing with. 

Most importantly, the line between hipster and modern fashion is very thin, and in some places doesn't exist at all. Someone who hates the very idea can't be expected to know, I guess. For the record, hating fashion and hipsters makes you a hipster.


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## Watty (Jul 23, 2013)

The Reverend said:


> I'm not one of the guys here saying, "F--k the police, they're all crooked." I understand the basis for racial profiling, though I think it's ridiculous in practice to think you can just look at someone and tell that they're a criminal. I guess if I had like East Side Crip Killer or something tattooed on my face it be practical, but yeah. I also don't think most cops are inherently racist. If anything, both minorities and cops have created this situation where there is an undue amount of tension between them. There are certain expectations this creates that I believe lead cops to behave a certain way, as well as people they're dealing with.



I'd agree with the above.



The Reverend said:


> Most importantly, the line between hipster and modern fashion is very thin, and in some places doesn't exist at all. Someone who hates the very idea can't be expected to know, I guess. For the record, hating fashion and hipsters makes you a hipster.



You could have said you were a fashionable, somewhat metrosexual male. You instead chose the word hipster, which speaks to something as far as I'm concerned. I don't hate the idea, what I do hate is the commonplace (and in most cases, cliche) implementation among a group of people that consistently miss the point. The line might be thin, but it's a pretty clear demarcation. And no, hating fashion and hipsters makes me counter-counter-culture, which implies that I'm simply culture.....or normal.


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## straightshreddd (Jul 23, 2013)

I live in what most would argue to be the worst area of my city. I'm hispanic, but I kinda look white and I have what most refer to as "white boy style". I used to get stopped all the time in my neighborhood because I clearly looked like I did not belong. 

One of my buddies dads gave me a ride home a couple years ago(He's a polo/khaki wearing physical therapist who drives a fresh ass SUV) and he got pulled over while I was getting out. 

Lots of great arguments and points here, but in the end they have the control. 

I have a buddy who's family is very wealthy and financially privileged(AKA he's never had to deal with any of these types of things). We'd get into debates about this and he'd always try some tough-guy approach about how they can't do that and how he'd tell them his rights and walk off. Shit just doesn't work like that. They almost have infinite power. They can and will rough your ass up, slap you with a charge, and lock you up and you will have to eat that shit. 

Unless, it's filmed. I'm 100% for filming any police interaction. 

Shit, when you go to municipal court, you can't even tell your side of the story. You go in, some appointed official reads your charge, and he tells you what you're going to plead. Either that, or you can appeal and go through a long, annoying, and costly process that isn't even worth it. The system is f*cked and there's not much we can do.

I personally think that the government does this simply because they have no one to do anything serious about it. 

Think about it. There's a bully at school and he f*cks your shit up every day. You tell the teachers, you tell the prinicipal, you call the hotlines, the whole nine. Rarely do they go out of their way to stop the motherf*cker. They have meetings, they suspend him, etc and hopefully he'll leave you alone.

The moment you bust that assholes head open with a pipe or open fire on his ass, is they day his whole perspective will change. 

We are intelligent creatures and violence is not the answer to all problems, but evil knows no boundaries and sometimes motherf*ckers need to get f*cked up. I know it's a little gay to use the word evil, but that's how I feel about government. 

We need a militia of highly trained, V for Vendetta type motherf*ckers to start sniping those assholes from rooftops and to start attacking power-abusers in tremendous numbers with the precision of a spec ops unit if we really want to put a stop to this.

We bitch about the cops(a part of the government) to the government(the cops' safety net and buddies). What f*cking good does that do? Honestly? Nothing. That's like when you fought a kid in your neighborhood and he complains to your own parents about it. Yeah, they'll yell at you in front of him so he feels like justice has been served, but you know you won't get in serious trouble for it.

They let us win insignificant battles here and there to make us feel like we have a chance.

When shit gets real, piece-of-shit cops will walk the streets in fear and government officials will be hiding in their panic rooms. 

I wanna kick a cop square in the nuts.


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## estabon37 (Jul 24, 2013)

Watty said:


> Maybe every story told here is 100% true, and again, maybe not.



I can't think of any reason to suspect that the stories here aren't true (within the boundaries truth being largely subjective). That the majority of posters seem to be law-abiding/law-avoiding types, even if we were to double the amount of stories here it would account for such a tiny percentage of overall police activity on a day to day basis. Realistically, it's one's positive and negative encounters that one remembers. This is why a close friend of mine remembers one particular officer for helping him after a very serious car accident he had when he ran off a country road and survived a crash that he really shouldn't have survived, as opposed to routine stuff like being breath-tested or seeing a cop car hidden beside a road everybody speeds on. The stories here are memorable encounters, positive or negative singular moments that stand out above the dozens of interactions we have with police officers on a monthly basis, many of which we don't notice because we are focusing on our lives at the time.



straightshreddd said:


> They almost have infinite power. They can and will rough your ass up, slap you with a charge, and lock you up and you will have to eat that shit ... Shit, when you go to municipal court, you can't even tell your side of the story. You go in, some appointed official reads your charge, and he tells you what you're going to plead. Either that, or you can appeal and go through a long, annoying, and costly process that isn't even worth it. The system is f*cked and there's not much we can do.



From what I gather here, you're talking more about major, MAJOR systemic issues here. As the video from earlier in the thread on NYC police being pushed into making "quotas" shows, it's not always within the capability of ground-level officers to control that shit. Not that they should be excused or ignored for their part in it, but when you say...



straightshreddd said:


> I know it's a little gay to use the word evil, but that's how I feel about government ... We need a militia of highly trained, V for Vendetta type motherf*ckers to start sniping those assholes from rooftops and to start attacking power-abusers in tremendous numbers with the precision of a spec ops unit if we really want to put a stop to this ... When shit gets real, piece-of-shit cops will walk the streets in fear and government officials will be hiding in their panic rooms. I wanna kick a cop square in the nuts.



...you're lumping potentially good people in with the bad in a way that really throws innocent people to the wolves, which is exactly what you are accusing "the government" of doing. You used a schoolyard analogy in your post. When things got bad at school, did you wish that some random unit of guerillas was there to wipe out teachers you disliked, knowing that there was every chance that a teacher you liked who had really helped you could become a target because they failed to help somebody else? This is why reprisals against officers are a bad idea: it's too easy to paint everyone wearing the uniform with the same brush. 

I don't mean to diminish your experiences, and I'm sure as hell not saying you're wrong about there being major issues. But violence is really not an answer. The great thing about the corrupt is that they will devour each other in an attempt to maintain power. We need to record every interaction, and encourage the good guys on the inside to leak information or take evidence on the bad guys. The system can be our weapon too.

And if you don't trust anyone on the inside to clean it up, join them. Fix it. My concerns about education have led me to trying to becoming a teacher. You don't need a vigilante force to wipe out corrupt cops, you need a wave of people who genuinely care about social justice to sign up. I'm confident that the vast majority of people I'm studying with at uni are going to be amazing teachers who could genuinely revolutionise education. The same could be done with law enforcement (and paying decent officers more would go a long way towards making that happen).


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## flint757 (Jul 24, 2013)

straightshreddd said:


> They almost have infinite power. They can and will rough your ass up, slap you with a charge, and lock you up and you will have to eat that shit ... Shit, when you go to municipal court, you can't even tell your side of the story. You go in, some appointed official reads your charge, and he tells you what you're going to plead. Either that, or you can appeal and go through a long, annoying, and costly process that isn't even worth it. The system is f*cked and there's not much we can do.



That is incorrect. When you go to the municipal court they are dividing those who plead guilty or no contest from those who claim to be not guilty. There is no need to plead ones case here during this procedure. When you actually go to court then you both plead your case. If you have a lawyer and you live in a big city you'd just postpone the case until the police officer forgets/can't come and get it dismissed if the charges are minor (like traffic related). Pending on what you are being charged with the process is not necessarily that long or costly.  Either way they don't tell you what you are going to plead, they ask.


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## straightshreddd (Jul 24, 2013)

Alright, I was pretty drunk, so I wasn't very organized or detailed in my post. haha I was referring primarily to police officers, government officials, etc who ABUSE POWER and COMMIT CRIMES. Of course, I wouldn't want innocent, good people to get hurt.

At Flint, I postponed twice and they told me if I do it once more, then they will put out a warrant for my arrest. My friends used to tell me that, too. I don't think every city let's shit slide and I don't have money for a lawyer.

Also, once when I went to court for a busted headlight and 1 week expired insurance and misplaced id, this is exactly what happened:

1. Walked in and waited in line.

2. My turn came up.

3. Handed the guy my papers and very briefly explained that my insurance and id were still active and clean, I just left my new card and my id at home by accident(which was true. They easily could have looked it up to confirm. I have a clean driving record).

4. He says, "Alright, you're gonna take the insurance and headlight."

5. I say, "But-"

6. "Look, you can take all three or what I give you."

7. I sat the f*ck down.

Yes, I could have appealed, but I was trying to avoid the fines for a reason. haha Getting a lawyer, paying more court fees, etc would have set me back further than just taking all three. lol 


At Estabon, I think you're totally right to an extent. I still believe if crooked authority figures were met with force, it'd make the others think twice.

Good people can make a difference, but as far as numbers are concerned, we're losing.

I just feel that they have no reason to stop if we do "nothing". I admit, total vigilante anarchy isn't a good idea. I was just inebriated and rather hype. But, just as violence will not solve every problem, totally passive non-resistance won't either. I respect that you decided to make a difference by becoming a teacher. A lot, actually. It's what a lot of people should do. However, being a good person and doing the right thing won't stop a police officer from beating your ass for no reason, or your local government from putting you in jail for something you didn't do.

I'm not saying I'm 100% right and that all the things I've said are the only way things should be. I'm just speaking from my personal experiences.

I'm not for senseless violence. A lot of my friends call me a hippy because of my views. I just know when enough is enough. At some point, fists must be raised and wounds must be inflicted because when the body receives pain, it tells the brain to back the f*ck off of whatever caused it.


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## The Reverend (Jul 24, 2013)

If you want to stop police brutality, all you need to do is bring more attention to it. There are personality types who shouldn't be in law enforcement who are. Sadists, bigots, and just plain greedy officers make the rest look bad. If this whole watch the police movement organizes better, fundraises, and brings suits to every cop and their department, we could start seeing a decline in these reports. Departments would start self-policing more, which means better screening for potential cops and more immediate and appropriate punishments for violators. 

You have to assume that not all the cops documented in that video and others are being violent beyond what is necessary for the first time. This means that they're used to getting away with it. They don't think anything bad will happen to them, so they're okay with it. If the steps I outlined above were followed, I don't think this attitude by bad cops would be as visible.


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## wheresthefbomb (Jul 30, 2013)

People are always quick to remind that there are "good cops" when criticism of the police comes up. This is problematic, because it leaves me to wonder where the "good cops" are when the "bad cops" are assaulting innocents. The "Blue Code of Silence," exactly the same as the Mafia's code of Omerta, is a well-established fact.

Furthermore, can a cop enforce an unjust law and still be a "good cop?" I do not believe so.

The only "good cops" I can see are those who actively refuse to enforce unjust laws, report their comrades' misconduct, and refuse to be complicit in said misconduct. As a result, most "good cops" are ex-cops.

In conclusion, film the police, because they sure aren't gonna do it for you!


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## canuck brian (Jul 31, 2013)

Check out recent events in Toronto where a kid with a knife is shot 3 times, goes down, is shot another 6 times, THEN tasered. There are a lot of nice angles on various cameras too.

I really like my Windows Phone. I have it set to automatically upload all pictures and videos to Skydrive. Taking my phone won't do shit.


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## wheresthefbomb (Jul 31, 2013)

canuck brian said:


> I really like my Windows Phone. I have it set to automatically upload all pictures and videos to Skydrive. Taking my phone won't do shit.



I have heard about that, that's very clever. I need to set up my android to do the same.

Is anyone here familiar with or part of Copwatch? We are starting to form a group here to teach people how to film the police and how to assert their rights when dealing with police. 

The campus cops, Upigs as we affectionately know them, will pull people over for nonsense reasons looking for DUIs. They used "hi-beams" as an excuse a number of times, it couldn't be more transparent. We found out the cop shop on campus gets federal grants for DUI convictions. Follow the money...

That was sort of the catalyst, got a lot of my non-radical friends interested and aware.


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## SevenStringSam (Jul 31, 2013)

theres reasons im going to completely break down and rebuild america (far easier than youd expect if you know the right people) and its ....ers like in those clips i will make DAMN WELL SURE are the receiving end of the beatings


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## Señor Voorhees (Jul 31, 2013)

I find the whole thing interesting. I've been stopped by the police a handful of times, and none of them were anything I shouldn't have expected. When I was young, I was walking with friends, one of them made a shifty remark about trench coats and guns while we were in a walmart. Somebody overheard it and alerted the police, who ran into us later walking through the ghettos. Even though I had an illegal knife, and I inadvertently lied about it (I thought I left it at home and told them I didn't have any weapons or anything illegal) all they did was take the knife, get pissy with me and sent me on my way.

I've been stopped by police in Oildale, where you'd expect to be treated like shit, and they were a little short and mean, but I never made any quick moves, and I cooperated. (on top of not doing anything wrong in the first place.) They checked me out and sent me on my way.

Pretty much every time I'm stopped, I may get an attitude, but that's it. And considering the people they generally deal with, I'm not surprised they give an attitude and I try my best not to add on to it. Because I'm always calm and I'm never doing anything that can even be considered wrong (being drunk is a huge thing here), I've never had any legal issues. Hell, I've gotten off of tickets because I'm genuinely calm and not insulting or rude.

I honestly do believe that the majority of cops are well enough. They may be rough, they may be rude, but in my experience they only get real physical when they perceive threat. There is shit that happens that shouldn't, and I certainly don't condone over-use of physical violence, but I have a hard time believing a lot of the people who claim they were victimized. Their own opinions color the story, on top of the fact that a lot of people seem to forget that when you're drunk, things didn't quite happen the way you remember it. 

It's not just me either. I have a small cluster of calm law abiding "straight edge" friends who have never once been harassed by the police, while I also have a cluster of friends/people I know personally who bitch and moan about the police being shit heads. The people who bitch and moan about the police tend to partake in illegal or at the very least sketchy activity. It's anecdotal evidence at best, but I really don't think it's a coincidence. 

I think it would be beneficial for police to be required to wear some form of camera though. I think Rev said it on the first page. It's relatively cheap, and you'd see everything that happens. There is zero downside to it. I think it'd help quell what police brutality there is, and it'd prove some of these smug little shits claiming they were unfairly treated wrong. Credibility would be a non-issue.


Also, fbomb, you made mention about how they'll follow unjust laws and that would make them a bad cop? "Unjust" in a lot of instances is subjective. Beating the ever loving piss out of a defenseless crack dealer or child molester can be seen as "just" by a lot of people, and from the sounds of it you'd be all over it saying the cop was a piece of shit for beating the defenseless person, even though he was doing what he and a lot of others feel is "just." This is why there are rules and guidelines, to help minimize this fact.


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## flint757 (Jul 31, 2013)

Wearing a camera is not the best plan either. They'd need to be able to turn it off when taking a piss or something. If they can turn it off then they can abuse the privilege.

What could work is having it log when it is turned off so they can match it against reports. If a report is filed and it is shut off during the incident it would draw attention to the situation.


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## wheresthefbomb (Jul 31, 2013)

Señor Voorhees;3666270 said:


> Also, fbomb, you made mention about how they'll follow unjust laws and that would make them a bad cop? "Unjust" in a lot of instances is subjective. Beating the ever loving piss out of a defenseless crack dealer or child molester can be seen as "just" by a lot of people, and from the sounds of it you'd be all over it saying the cop was a piece of shit for beating the defenseless person, even though he was doing what he and a lot of others feel is "just." This is why there are rules and guidelines, to help minimize this fact.



Drug sentencing is a good example. Our prison system is full of people whose lives were ruined because they had a plant in their pocket that had arbitrarily been deemed illegal.

I understand your argument, the issue I have with it is that it relies on laws being good and morally justified. Being inherently arbitrary, they can hope to be neither. Many laws exist specifically to the benefit of certain groups or individuals.

Similarly, there is still the issue of the Blue Wall of Silence in regards to police misconduct as (un)reported by police. Silence is complicity in my book.


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