# Time Signatures



## macalpine88 (Oct 6, 2004)

i have just recently been trying to write stuff other than 4/4. i know a whole note gets 4 beats per measure and half gets 2 beats etc in 4/4. but do all the notes get counted the same in something other than 4/4. say 9/8  would notes have the same number of beats?


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## Metal Ken (Oct 6, 2004)

in 9/8, the 8th not gets the beat. But the easiest way to count that of is 3 8th notes per quarter note click on the metronome. Basically, think of 9/8 as 3/4 in triplets. generally, anything in X/8 has 3 8th notes per quarter note beat.


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## Drew (Oct 6, 2004)

yeah, given the formula A/B, B gets the beat, and there are A beats per measure. So, 7/4 means the quarter note gets the beat, and there are 7 of 'em to a measure. 7/8 is seven 8th notes per measure. 15/8 is 15 of 'em. Etc. 

It's usually a LOT easier to subdivide these when counting, though. Like, a fast 15/8 groove would involve counting one-two-three-four-five-six...-fourteen-fifteen-one... etc to stay on top of. It's MUCH easier to count, 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8, 1-2-3-4-5-6-7, 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8, etc. That's a pretty extreme example, maybe, but the traditional way of counting seven is 1-2-3-4-1-2-3, which is a little more excessable...

You can count it in other ways, though- whatever fits your riff, really. You could count 15 as 1-2-3-4-1-2-3-4-1-2-3-4-1-2-3; three groupings of four, then one of three. Or, you could do two groupings of 6 and one of three if that's how the downbeats fall- a buddy of mine wrote a riff in 19 that he counted out 1-1-2-3-1-2-3-4-1-2-3-4-5-6-7-1-2, because that fit the melodic countour; one, three, seven, two. 

Sorry, late night at work- this might be a little disjointed. 

-D


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## God Of 7 (Oct 6, 2004)

I taught piano for years (college major) and I found that you learned faster and more thoroughly when attacking odd time signatures one at a time.
Focus on 5/4 and play examples until you are comfortable-really comfortable.You should be able to play your favorite 4/4 song melodies in 5/4 without much trouble. It'll sound wierd, but when you can do that- move to 7/4.
You want to keep the quarter constant (like an anchor) as you navigate and only go to the eighth note meter after.

Much easier to cop it IMHO.


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## macalpine88 (Oct 6, 2004)

thanks for the help  i dont know why it is so hard. i have been trying to learn for about a year and now it is just starting ot make sense


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## Metal Ken (Oct 6, 2004)

macalpine88 said:


> thanks for the help  i dont know why it is so hard. i have been trying to learn for about a year and now it is just starting ot make sense




The best thing to do is read as amny theory books as you can and ask as many questions as you can to people who know theory. After a while it all starts to make sense ;p


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## Drew (Oct 7, 2004)

Listening to the stuff helps, too- if you don't own any, now's a GREAT time to buy some Tool... 

-D


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## macalpine88 (Oct 7, 2004)

Drew said:


> Listening to the stuff helps, too- if you don't own any, now's a GREAT time to buy some Tool...
> 
> -D



i listen to planet x alot to they have some wierd time signatures and i can count them but i just have trouble writing in them i dont know why though


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## Metal Ken (Oct 7, 2004)

Drew said:


> Listening to the stuff helps, too- if you don't own any, now's a GREAT time to buy some Tool...
> 
> -D



Of if you wanna go to an extreme, Spiral Architect ;p


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## Drew (Oct 8, 2004)

been meaning to grab some of their stuff- care to recommend a starting point? 

tool still rocks.  Maynard's a fuckin' genius 

-D


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## Metal Ken (Oct 8, 2004)

They only have one album so far.. Get that one . ;p

Songwise, check out Spinning or FountainHead.


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## Drew (Oct 8, 2004)

hmm. tricky. 

No file sharing program, sorry... I miss audiogalaxy, i bought SO many albums because of that thing.


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## Metal Ken (Oct 8, 2004)

I got instant messanger, if you wanna do that or i could email them to ya.


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## Drew (Oct 8, 2004)

no home net access, and it wouldn't fly at work- sorry man. 

I checked out an amazon.com clip of "Spinning," I think- the first track. Didn't really care for the vocalist, and it's tough to get a feel for rhythmic complexity at whisper-quiet volumes... 

-D


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## Metal Ken (Oct 8, 2004)

just wait till you can hear it in its entirety. Its one of my all time fav. Prog albums after some Psychotic Waltz.


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## Vince (Oct 9, 2004)

an easy way I like to break up odd time sigs is to break them down to their core parts. For example, when I'm playing 7/4 time, I try to think of it as a measure of 3, then a measure of 4...or a measure of 4, then a measure of 3. Either one of those (whichever fits the piece I'm playing) usually gets me through the part.

I have two songs I've written where I delve in to odd times. One song is an industrial twinged song based in 5/4 time, and I oscillate (sp?) between 5/4 and 4/4, even putting 2 measures of 3/4 in there for fun.

In another song, I begin the song in 4/4 time, the bridge halfway through is in 6/8, and then I finish the song with a 4 part guitar harmony in 11/8 time.

11/8 time rules. It's a waltz with 2 big powerful hits every 4 measures (3/4, 3/4, 3/4, 2/4). Fun stuff!


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## Metal Ken (Oct 9, 2004)

Yeah, there's this badass spiral Architect riff in 11/16(Intro to "Fountainhead"). Its like, you gotta count 1-2-3-4-5--1-2-3-4-5-6. Its freaky as hell. You keep wanting to make it 12/16 (3/4) but thats what makes it so hard to play.


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## Vince (Oct 9, 2004)

so, (5 and a half + 6)/ 4? That's not music, that's nearly calculus! 

Just put an _f(n) = _ in front of it!



Spiral Arichitect is a crazy band. Great stuff.


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## Metal Ken (Oct 9, 2004)

desertdweller said:


> so, (5 and a half + 6)/ 4? That's not music, that's nearly calculus!
> 
> Just put an _f(n) = _ in front of it!
> 
> ...



Its not 5.5, it was just me making it easier to read lol 
But its weird as hell 
After that, it goes into this part in 19/16 then back into the original riff, then into a 7/8 part thats awesome as hell.


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## Vince (Oct 9, 2004)

HateBreeder said:


> Its not 5.5, it was just me making it easier to read lol



Well I saw the two dashes and just assumed  


Oh yeah, one more thing...


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## Metal Ken (Oct 9, 2004)

desertdweller said:


> Well I saw the two dashes and just assumed
> 
> 
> Oh yeah, one more thing...




I know, my bad dude.


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## Andi Rauscher (Oct 22, 2004)

I´ve made this here to explain these thing a little better... hope that helps!!! after all, I guess you just have to feel the beat....


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