# Locking Tuners on PRS SE trem not staying in tune



## chrismgtis (Mar 14, 2009)

I just very recently got the Paul Reed Smith SE single cut in tobacco sunburst with the tremolo. A while back I contacted PRS to see what options I had for locking tuners and they told me that Grover 406c locking tuners would be a direct replacement.

Really never used locking tuners in the 12 years that I've been playing. I looked at a YouTube video to make sure I was stringing them right and I'm assuming that I am. I stick part of the string in the post and turn it till the tuners lock the string in and then finish tightening the string. I tried to let the string go around the post once or twice, though the instructions that came with it or to my knowledge that is not required.

Issues:
1. I can turn some of the tuners just a little bit and get a decent distance on the tuning, but on other tuners I have to turn them much further.
2. When I get a string in tune, some of them somehow TIGHTEN (goes sharp) by the time I get back around to check the strings and make sure they are all still dead on (or it goes flat). They go sharp by almost an entire step sometimes in just a matter of 20 seconds.

It's just really frustrating and right now they locking tuners aren't doing their job. I thought maybe the trem was off center or something, but I've really no clue what would cause all of this.

OH by the way. I know the tuners are labeled somehow, but honestly I'm not sure at all if one tuner is supposed to be for a specific string or not. Obviously 3 go on one side only, but that's about as much as I could tell, because there were no instructions to say which tuner went to which string.


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## budda (Mar 14, 2009)

you stretch the strings when you restring your guitars, right?

I'unno


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## chrismgtis (Mar 14, 2009)

budda said:


> you stretch the strings when you restring your guitars, right?
> 
> I'unno



Yea I pulled on them several times. I've played the guitar for a little bit afterward too.


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## Shannon (Mar 14, 2009)

I would make sure that the nut is cut correctly & not binding. 

I have my PRS SE Paul Allender & it's my go-to axe for any Drop D stuff I gotta play. I added Schaller Locking Tuners & had the nut cut properly. I can go nuts on the whammy bar & it never goes out of tune. It's gotta be your nut, dude.


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## chrismgtis (Mar 14, 2009)

Shannon said:


> I would make sure that the nut is cut correctly & not binding.
> 
> I have my PRS SE Paul Allender & it's my go-to axe for any Drop D stuff I gotta play. I added Schaller Locking Tuners & had the nut cut properly. I can go nuts on the whammy bar & it never goes out of tune. It's gotta be your nut, dude.



Well I was thinking about getting a bone nut because a guy I know recommended it. Any advice on that and what size nut I need?


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## Shannon (Mar 14, 2009)

chrismgtis said:


> Well I was thinking about getting a bone nut because a guy I know recommended it. Any advice on that and what size nut I need?



For this particular guitar, you should be fine with the existing nut. Just have the string slots cut & lubed. That's all I had to do.


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## thesimo (Mar 15, 2009)

i duno but the way you have your low E strung is pretty bad, Its overlapping the excess and basically giving you a spring on your tuner lol. make sure its wrapped tight and coming right off the pole.


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## chrismgtis (Mar 15, 2009)

thesimo said:


> i duno but the way you have your low E strung is pretty bad, Its overlapping the excess and basically giving you a spring on your tuner lol. make sure its wrapped tight and coming right off the pole.



Yea, I was trying to do something different and I've never really had instruction on anything guitar, especially how to string the best way.


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## PirateMetalTroy (Mar 15, 2009)

If they're locking tuners, why do you have so much string wrapped around your string posts? shouldn't you need less than one wrap? As far as I've ever heard lost of wraps can cause the strings to catch/stick to each other when you dive, knocking you our of tune.

EDIT: That is, unless your guitar has a locking nut, but yours doesn't so ignore this comment.


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## chrismgtis (Mar 15, 2009)

PirateMetalTroy said:


> If they're locking tuners, why do you have so much string wrapped around your string posts? shouldn't you need less than one wrap? As far as I've ever heard lost of wraps can cause the strings to catch/stick to each other when you dive, knocking you our of tune.
> 
> EDIT: That is, unless your guitar has a locking nut, but yours doesn't so ignore this comment.



At first I was kinda hesitant with these type of locking tuners. I wasn't sure I could trust it to hold a string in so I wrapped once or twice for good measure. I'll stop doing that.


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## PirateMetalTroy (Mar 15, 2009)

My dad has a guitar with some gotoh auto-locking tuners. The kind that have that casing that locks down on the string, not the kind with the thumb screws at the back...never, ever had a problem.

insert string, tune to pitch, stretch strings, done. It's doesn't even require one full wrap.


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## Shannon (Mar 15, 2009)

Shit, didn't notice that. NO STRING WRAPS on locking tuners....ever.


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## gunshow86de (Mar 15, 2009)

Shannon said:


> Shit, didn't notice that. NO STRING WRAPS on locking tuners....ever.



This is truth!

If you wrap locking tuners, you are no better off than using standard tuning machines. You want the string to make a sort of U shape at the post, so that the hole/slot is parallel to the string. There is a common mis-conception that strings "stretch", but that is actually the string windings around the post just settling. I've never actually had to stretch strings with locking tuners, I just tune up the new string and go.


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## chrismgtis (Mar 16, 2009)

gunshow86de said:


> This is truth!
> 
> If you wrap locking tuners, you are no better off than using standard tuning machines. You want the string to make a sort of U shape at the post, so that the hole/slot is parallel to the string. There is a common mis-conception that strings "stretch", but that is actually the string windings around the post just settling. I've never actually had to stretch strings with locking tuners, I just tune up the new string and go.



They don't stretch? Seriously? Damn. I've had so many people tell me that.


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## asaber89 (May 17, 2009)

Shannon said:


> I would make sure that the nut is cut correctly & not binding.
> 
> I have my PRS SE Paul Allender & it's my go-to axe for any Drop D stuff I gotta play. I added Schaller Locking Tuners & had the nut cut properly. I can go nuts on the whammy bar & it never goes out of tune. It's gotta be your nut, dude.




What kind of Schaller's did you put on your SE? I have a Santana SE with stock, non-locking tuners and would love to put some locking ones on there. Also, did you have to drill any holes to fit the Schaller's?


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## MTech (May 17, 2009)

Those SE tuners are horrible. I know on all the SE guitars we had out we made them upgrade the tuners to the ones on the high end models and than never had a problem. In fact the one guitar that DIDN'T break on the road was the SE where as all the SC's had some issue or another.

Also with locking tuners like posted above you don't want it to wrap around of it defeats the purpose. When you string it correctly it should look like this.


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## darren (May 18, 2009)

chrismgtis said:


> I tried to let the string go around the post once or twice, though the instructions that came with it or to my knowledge that is not required.



Not only is it not required, it's not recommended. The wraps of string around the tuning post is exactly the issue locking tuners are meant to _eliminate_. All those wrapped strings will continue to flex and stretch, making your guitar go out of tune.

Pull the string through the tuner, pull it taut, then lock it. Your guitar should tune to pitch in less than one turn of the post.


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## hairychris (May 18, 2009)

darren said:


> Not only is it not required, it's not recommended. The wraps of string around the tuning post is exactly the issue locking tuners are meant to _eliminate_. All those wrapped strings will continue to flex and stretch, making your guitar go out of tune.
> 
> Pull the string through the tuner, pull it taut, then lock it. Your guitar should tune to pitch in less than one turn of the post.



+1

+1 to checking that the nut's cut correctly too, but one thing at a time!


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## CrushingAnvil (May 18, 2009)

chrismgtis said:


> At first I was kinda hesitant with these type of locking tuners. I wasn't sure I could trust it to hold a string in so I wrapped once or twice for good measure. I'll stop doing that.



Errr....Those dont look like locking tuners! you should go for a bone nut and some sperzels, not just for function but for aesthetics.


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## HighGain510 (May 18, 2009)

They are locking tuners, look at the top of the tuner post dude.  They're definitely locking Grover tuners.

To the OP, I think since it sounds like you're lacking experience in the technical area of guitar maintenance (not a shot at you, just judging by your posts in this thread so far ) your best bet is to bring it with you to a local guitar tech and let them take a look to see if your nut has any issues first and foremost. I know a lot of the SE line needs the nut slots fixed or a new nut installed, both of which are cheap fixes and will definitely improve the quality of the guitar tenfold. While you are there, ask them if they will show you how to properly string a guitar with locking tuners as it is relatively easy but since it sounds like you don't have experience with them it might be better than the guys on here trying to tell you how to do it via text alone.


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## Elysian (May 18, 2009)

CrushingAnvil said:


> Errr....Those dont look like locking tuners! you should go for a bone nut and some sperzels, not just for function but for aesthetics.



 Bone nut is nice tonewise, but not slippery, at all. My recommendation would be a Graphtech Tusq or Black Tusq nut, not bone.


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## CrushingAnvil (May 19, 2009)

Elysian said:


> Bone nut is nice tonewise, but not slippery, at all. My recommendation would be a Graphtech Tusq or Black Tusq nut, not bone.



Those are good also  - OP, You have a guitar with, what I'd say is, great modding potential, mod away!



HighGain510 said:


> They are locking tuners, look at the top of the tuner post dude.  They're definitely locking Grover tuners.
> 
> To the OP, I think since it sounds like you're lacking experience in the technical area of guitar maintenance (not a shot at you, just judging by your posts in this thread so far ) your best bet is to bring it with you to a local guitar tech and let them take a look to see if your nut has any issues first and foremost. I know a lot of the SE line needs the nut slots fixed or a new nut installed, both of which are cheap fixes and will definitely improve the quality of the guitar tenfold. While you are there, ask them if they will show you how to properly string a guitar with locking tuners as it is relatively easy but since it sounds like you don't have experience with them it might be better than the guys on here trying to tell you how to do it via text alone.



O LAWDZ My eyes deceived me! 

also,

+1


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## Shannon (May 19, 2009)

asaber89 said:


> What kind of Schaller's did you put on your SE? I have a Santana SE with stock, non-locking tuners and would love to put some locking ones on there. Also, did you have to drill any holes to fit the Schaller's?



I used these bad boys. They drop right in & I had a local tech do it, although it'd be really easy to do it yourself. The tech just through them on because he was doing other mods for me. Make sure your nut it also cut properly for whatever string gauges you use because strings can bind there also.

Schaller Mini Locking Tuners


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## DavyH (May 19, 2009)

Nut binding. SEs are awesome guitars for the price, but the nuts are crap. Replace or have the slots recut and lubed.

Locking tuners: why the hell doesn't _every_ guitar come with locking tuners?


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## Shannon (May 19, 2009)

DavyH said:


> Nut binding. SEs are awesome guitars for the price, but the nuts are crap. Replace or have the slots recut and lubed.



I just had the existing nut cut correctly. With that & the locking tuners, I have tried my best to get this thing to go out of tune & I can't do it. Great axes indeed.


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## 7 Strings of Hate (May 19, 2009)

dude, get an earvana nut


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