# Is Blackgaze "The New Djent"?



## DXL (Dec 30, 2015)

Okay so before any confusion emerges I just want to clarify that by "the new djent" it is meant as the current prominent scene within metal.

So I was reading an article on itdjents.com where the editor was listing his top 10 albums of the year. One of the bands on that list was a blackgaze/DSBM band called Ghost Bath. The editor stated how blackgaze (black metal with shoegaze/post rock influence) is "the new djent". I started thinking about it, especially in relation to the previous scenes before djent and I think that the editor might be right (or is soon to be).

Looking at the scenes throughout the 2000s, I feel that whatever is the current metal "scene" is whatever relatively new and growing genre that appeals to both the metal crowd as well as a secondary prominent crowd. Nu metal attracted the hard rockers and hip hop listeners, and metalcore, deathcore, and djent all attracted the punk and post hardcore community.

Now with blackgaze, even though a lot of it is rejected by the trve kvlt black metal community, it does get a lot of like from both the metal community and the indie/alternative community. Plus the fact that it's growing faster than it was at this point with there previously being only a few bands here and there and now there being a larger handful (although it's not as saturated as all the previous scenes mentioned). I also feel that being liked by the indie/alternative community is especially significant, since both have a lot of artists currently in the mainstream such as Imagine Dragons, Coldplay, Phillip Phillips, and Arctic Monkeys.

I was just wondering what you guys' stance on this claim is, as current music trends are usually an interest to a lot of people.


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## Emperor Guillotine (Dec 30, 2015)

Never heard of this term. Seems like an excuse to try to come up with a "new" subgenre just for the hell of it. (Because aren't we all just obsessive about overly classifying things and creating factions within the metal community?) 

But it sounds like Deafheaven. I don't like Deafheaven.


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## leftyguitarjoe (Dec 30, 2015)

Lantlos has been doing it for 10 years


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## Emperor Guillotine (Dec 30, 2015)

Alcest has been doing it for 15 years.


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## DXL (Dec 30, 2015)

Emperor Guillotine said:


> Alcest has been doing it for 15 years.



And meshuggah and sikth were djenting for nearly just as long before djent became prominent.


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## Fathand (Dec 30, 2015)

Wait, what - "Blackgaze" is an actual, real genre? 

I'm getting too old for this s**t.  

...just a moment, I'll take my walker and go back to being grumpy with "Transilvanian Hunger" and "De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas". IMO, it can't get much more "gazey" than introverted, nihilistic Norwegians from the 90's.


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## Necris (Dec 30, 2015)

Yes, in the sense that it's equally insufferable.


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## Blasphemer (Dec 30, 2015)

leftyguitarjoe said:


> Lantlos has been doing it for 10 years



And killing it up until Melting Sun. I miss the .neon and self titled days


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## DXL (Dec 30, 2015)

Fathand said:


> Wait, what - "Blackgaze" is an actual, real genre?
> 
> I'm getting too old for this s**t.
> 
> ...just a moment, I'll take my walker and go back to being grumpy with "Transilvanian Hunger" and "De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas". IMO, it can't get much more "gazey" than introverted, nihilistic Norwegians from the 90's.



I'm all about subgenres but even I don't consider blackgaze to be an independent genre, more of just a style of black metal.


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## svart (Dec 30, 2015)

The more terms they come up with, the more I tend to think shov'it and fall back to it's all metal and you got good metal and bad metal... That's it. The rest is just marketing to 'divide and conquer' your wallets imo...


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## Explorer (Dec 30, 2015)

Wait... is "djent" seriously considered a genre? I just thought it referred to certain guitar usages, as embodied by this classic song from 1982.



This tune is from 9 years later.

 

Being as those performers were capable of doing that type of playing and performing as just one part of their professional skillset, it's funny to think that having less performing range is a definition of a "genre"....


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## DLG (Dec 30, 2015)

blackgaze is music for people who got into metal through pitchfork.


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## Demiurge (Dec 30, 2015)

Sweet Jesus. So basically a few hipster/indie publications favorably reviewed "Sunbather" when it came out, and somehow we're at _"lets make this a thing in case it gets popular!"_ already?.

I'm sure there will be some sweet deals on used noise gates in the Classifieds shortly.


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## Sumsar (Dec 30, 2015)

Demiurge said:


> I'm sure there will be some sweet deals on used noise gates in the Classifieds shortly.



I lol'ed .. hard, good thing I am at home 

On the subject: Yeah it seems like Djent has peaked. There is like 5 to 10 bands with a couple of albums under their belt that kinda define the genre now, right? (I don't listen to it myself).
So yeah, the next thing maybe this blackgaze thing (or whatever you call Deafhaven ripoffs ).

I guess an interesting thing about a change in pop-metal genre is the associated gear. Hating on djent or not, it really took the development of guitar gear a long way: Axe FX and Ibanez doing a 9 string and a fanned fret 8 string probably being the height of that.
So I wonder what will the next thing be, what does these blackgaze people use for gear?
Here is hoping for 7 string, neck-though, passive pickup, 25"5 scale guitars with floyd roses, but I am not counting on it


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## mgh (Dec 30, 2015)

as people have said, this was a 'scene' if you like in France about 2000 on with Amesoeurs, Alcest, Lantlos and Les Discrets. Agalloch were doing a similar thing in the US and that influenced the whole Cascadian style bands, and then we got to deafhaven (who I really like btw) and cos they didn't look like metalheads or use normal lyrical matter, they became the hipsters fave, a shame as musically they are really good.
mixing elements of shoegaze with metal isn't that new though, i'd argue a band like ...in the woods and early Ulver had a lot of that in their sound, and there's a forgotten band called Hybernoid who were more overly doing that in about 1995:


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## Konfyouzd (Dec 30, 2015)

Necris said:


> Yes, in the sense that it's equally insufferable.


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## cwhitey2 (Dec 30, 2015)

This whole thread 



I blend post metal and black metal (I'll use ISIS and Marduk as an example) together because I love those 2 genres...does that make me hipster?


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## DLG (Dec 30, 2015)

cwhitey2 said:


> This whole thread
> 
> 
> 
> I blend post metal and black metal (I'll use ISIS and Marduk as an example) together because I love those 2 genres...does that make me hipster?



do you own a cardigan?


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## cwhitey2 (Dec 30, 2015)

DLG said:


> do you own a cardigan?




hahaah what's that?












I kid  and no.


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## redstone (Dec 30, 2015)

Nothing new but I can understand why it would become a thing nowadays.


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## Humbuck (Dec 30, 2015)

Sub-genres and pigeonholing is never going to stop. It's human nature.


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## DLG (Dec 30, 2015)

neither is copying the latest trend and jumping on bandwagons


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## cip 123 (Dec 30, 2015)

Emperor Guillotine said:


> it sounds like Deafheaven. I don't like Deafheaven.



This.


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## broj15 (Dec 30, 2015)

I called this a while back in the thread where we predicited new trends in metal. cba to find the post, but this thought has been buzzing around in my head for a while. Just a month ago a few guys who were in a local deathcore/death metal band asked me to be the bassist for their new black metal project. They played a few of their songs they've already wrote for me and it sounds criminally similar to deafheaven (but not structured nearly as good). Not dissing them or anything... If they get some more songs and get serious I'll join up, but it's just funny how people can trend hop and not even be self aware about it.


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## crg123 (Dec 30, 2015)

Lol does that make Alcest this genre's Meshuggah then? Are people going to whisper things softly in French to eachother instead of making shuggah faces? I guess we'll find out. 

It is funny I've been seeing some of this pop up in my area. Mostly Berklee kids as of right now. It's funny none of them seem to know who Agalloch or Alcest are though. I like both of those bands a lot but I don't really see why people like Deafhaven so much tbh.


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## Sicarius (Dec 30, 2015)

Except NuMetal and MetalCore received radio airplay during their heydays, cementing them as actual genres with critically acclaimed releases from SOAD, Limp Bizkit and Killswitch Engage.

Whereas Deathcore has popular and successful acts, but it doesn't receive radio airplay, and Djent is still mostly a joke.


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## JohnIce (Dec 30, 2015)

Going from a shallow, vapid and technique-obsessed genre to a more pretentious retro one full of noise. That sounds a bit familiar, has that ever happened before? 

I could totally see it having an audience, since the indie/alternative crowd has always been turned off by the posturing and machismo in metal, and these blackgaze bands seem like an alternative that's still heavy and dark but minus all the flexing and... spiked gauntlets. I think a lot of these people see metal as kind of WWE with guitars, and can't really take it seriously. I think it's a bit of a metalhead wishful thinking myth that it's the _sound_ of metal that's too heavy and aggressive for the hipsters, but I think it has more to do with image most of the time.


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## Grindspine (Dec 30, 2015)

Asking if "something" is the "new something" is always rhetorical.

I remember reading, "Is Myspace the new Friendster?!" before, "Is Facebook the new Myspace?!" years ago.

It's all rhetorical and all essentially the same...


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## sevenfoxes (Dec 30, 2015)

I'm so sick of djent, but I can't stop playing it on guitar.


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## leftyguitarjoe (Dec 30, 2015)

Hey, instead of worrying about whether or not a genre is "too cool" these days, lets just jam the fcuk out


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## CGrant109 (Dec 30, 2015)

I wouldn't hold too much weight from an opinion of a writer on itdjents. Deafheaven is definitely helping bring this style of metal to bigger audiences, and you may see a small rise of bands doing the ambient shoe-gaze / black metal approach. I don't think that will become the "new thing", but maybe it will. I really hope it doesn't. I also really hope the "new thing" trend just stops entirely, and people just write what they like, and leave it at that.


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## leftyguitarjoe (Dec 30, 2015)

Its a good thing that genres get some hyperfocus every now and again. Djent exploded, subsided, and left us with some great bands and a whole new bag of tricks to use in other genres. People getting into making textures and walls of sound is by no means a bad thing to me, so I say bring on the blackgaze.


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## bhakan (Dec 30, 2015)

I feel like people get really worked up over Deafheaven solely because they're not trve and cvlt enough. Most of the hate I see towards the style is directed more at pitchfork for writing about it than at the music itself. Of course you've got the regular people who just don't like the style, but I encounter people every now and then who seem to have a deeply personal vendetta against "blackgaze" or "post black metal" or whatever.


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## will_shred (Dec 30, 2015)

I have lately been listening to a good amount of post black metal, which I really enjoy. "blackgaze" I guess is kind of a similar thing? I enjoy bands like lantlos and twilight, but it really seems to be one of those things were a unique band or two carves out a new cool sound, and all of the sudden its a new "genre" spawning poser bands, yet nothing really new or exiting.


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## Emperor Guillotine (Dec 30, 2015)

Demiurge said:


> Sweet Jesus. So basically a few hipster/indie publications favorably reviewed "Sunbather" when it came out, and somehow we're at _"lets make this a thing in case it gets popular!"_ already?.
> 
> I'm sure there will be some sweet deals on used noise gates in the Classifieds shortly.




I seriously cannot understand why the indie/hipster crowd loves Deafheaven so much that they made the band into a Billboard-topping act with the band's debut. I mean, it's so out of left-field. What happened to the indie/hipster crowds loving that indie/garage/alternative/acoustic folk bullsh*t (whatever they call it... Idk.) 

I tried listening to Deafheaven once, and their music is just...



Necris said:


> insufferable


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## DXL (Dec 30, 2015)

will_shred said:


> I have lately been listening to a good amount of post black metal, which I really enjoy. "blackgaze" I guess is kind of a similar thing? I enjoy bands like lantlos and twilight, but it really seems to be one of those things were a unique band or two carves out a new cool sound, and all of the sudden its a new "genre" spawning poser bands, yet nothing really new or exiting.



Blackgaze is just another name for post black metal, just quicker to say I guess.


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## broj15 (Dec 30, 2015)

crg123 said:


> Are people going to whisper things softly in French to eachother



If that's the case then I'm 1000% behind this. Finally I can put those 3 years of french class to "good" use.


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## DarkWolfXV (Dec 30, 2015)

You're literally 3 years late, fam. If you missed the post black metal bandwagon, I suggest not selling your Axe-FX and Agile 9 string, because it might become useful during the still relevant new wave of nu-metal. I do propose, however, re-listening the discography of Deathspell Omega and combining it with deathcore, post-rock, djent/nu-metal, downtempo/beatdown hardcore and funky hardcore with slap bass ala Turnstile. This way you can ensure your band will be relevant for the next two years. After that time, you can send me a message asking what to do next. But who knows, you might become the poster boy of postmodern post-meta hardcore and not need my advice at all!


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## Emperor Guillotine (Dec 30, 2015)

DarkWolfXV said:


> You're literally 3 years late, fam. If you missed the post black metal bandwagon, I suggest not selling your Axe-FX and Agile 9 string, because it might become useful during the still relevant new wave of nu-metal. I do propose, however, re-listening the discography of Deathspell Omega and combining it with deathcore, post-rock, djent/nu-metal, downtempo/beatdown hardcore and funky hardcore with slap bass ala Turnstile. This way you can ensure your band will be relevant for the next two years. After that time, you can send me a message asking what to do next. But who knows, you might become the poster boy of postmodern post-meta hardcore and not need my advice at all!


Savage


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## celticelk (Dec 30, 2015)

Anyone who has to use the term "hipster" to try to account for the popularity of a band or subgenre has already lost the argument, IMO. It's my version of Godwin's Law.


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## bhakan (Dec 30, 2015)

Emperor Guillotine said:


> I seriously cannot understand why the indie/hipster crowd loves Deafheaven so much that they made the band into a Billboard-topping act with the band's debut. I mean, it's so out of left-field. What happened to the indie/hipster crowds loving that indie/garage/alternative/acoustic folk bullsh*t (whatever they call it... Idk.)


I think it's because shoegaze has been regaining a lot of popularity recently, so black metal with elements of shoegaze isn't that far of a stretch.


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## gunch (Dec 30, 2015)

I tried listening to Ghost Bath and found the vocals hilarious, even for BM band 

Are there any more USBM like The Howling Wind? their album Of Babalon was bad ass.


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## DXL (Dec 30, 2015)

silverabyss said:


> I tried listening to Ghost Bath and found the vocals hilarious, even for BM band
> 
> Are there any more USBM like The Howling Wind? their album Of Babalon was bad ass.



Check out Panopticon and Wolves in the Throne Room, both really great bands.


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## gunch (Dec 30, 2015)

DXL said:


> Check out Panopticon and Wolves in the Throne Room, both really great bands.



I actually like WITTR 



that clipping


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## Sumsar (Dec 30, 2015)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackgaze

Wikipedia says it is a thing, so there you have it! It is apparently a thing!


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## cwhitey2 (Dec 30, 2015)

bhakan said:


> I feel like people get really worked up over Deafheaven solely because they're not trve and cvlt enough. Most of the hate I see towards the style is directed more at pitchfork for writing about it than at the music itself. Of course you've got the regular people who just don't like the style, but I encounter people every now and then who seem to have a deeply personal vendetta against "blackgaze" or "post black metal" or whatever.




This.

People act like they did something to them personally 


People need to grow up and get over it. I love Deafheaven. I think they are freaking awesome. People who post negative things probably like djent which is more of a joke. 

And djent personally offends me because it's not trve or kvlt..


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## redstone (Dec 30, 2015)

Cant wait for Djentgaze to create my own "is Djentgaze the new black" thread.


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## wankerness (Dec 30, 2015)

Sumsar said:


> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackgaze
> 
> Wikipedia says it is a thing, so there you have it! It is apparently a thing!



Did you write that article, or did the OP?


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## Sicarius (Dec 30, 2015)

Make it so, redstone.


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## wankerness (Dec 30, 2015)

Wow, there's a band called Ghost Bath? Reminds me of


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## Sumsar (Dec 30, 2015)

wankerness said:


> Did you write that article, or did the OP?



No I just checked up on when deafhaven actually released their first album and saw that they where labelled as blackgaze


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## Sicarius (Dec 30, 2015)

I bet they made it up themselves to be different.


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## Esp Griffyn (Dec 30, 2015)

silverabyss said:


> I actually like WITTR
> 
> 
> 
> that clipping




That was pretty cool actually.


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## Electric Wizard (Dec 30, 2015)

This forum blows my mind sometimes. For a bunch of nerds with musical interests so fringe that they need special guitars and strings (gotta have that .90 on my 32" low E bro, inharmonicity) there's really a ton of "stop liking what I don't like!" that goes on here.


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## TheHandOfStone (Dec 30, 2015)

RE: Deafheaven, a band can "blow up" without spawning "the new ____" (see: Mastodon). But as others have pointed out already, metal is not especially popular right now (at least compared to past times). So it's not like you can't avoid the music if you don't like it. For this reason, I hope it does become "huge." The fans will be happy and the rest of you will have something new to groan about. Sounds like a win-win.


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## Veldar (Dec 30, 2015)

I love me some shoegaze and post rock so I hope it sticks, wasn't a fan of New Bermuda, hopefully we'll get some great albums out of it if it does stick.

EDIT: There's a wiki page, it must be real genre.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackgaze


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## Explorer (Dec 30, 2015)

Creating a Wikipedia page to increase cred is such a hipster move.


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## lemeker (Dec 30, 2015)

Since we are talking about another genre, I wanna start a blackgazedjentacore band that has off beat rhythms and badass ambient breakdowns!!!

i know....I'll show myself out.....


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## celticelk (Dec 30, 2015)

Relevant: Debunking the &#8220;hipster metal&#8221; myth - Features - Alternative Press


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## Fathand (Dec 31, 2015)

I've always liked Agalloch, and WITTR was a very good live experience some years ago.

It's just that this subcategorizing genre madness gets to me sometimes - but then I remember that any "Post-metal/rock" related genre is usually just some bands trying to salvage & rip stuff from the total destruction & annihilation *Neurosis* left in their wake.


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## Necris (Dec 31, 2015)

crg123 said:


> Lol does that make Alcest this genre's Meshuggah then? Are people going to whisper things softly in French to eachother instead of making shuggah faces? I guess we'll find out.



Arguably Weakling fit that role more they predate Alcest (and WITTR and.
The album Dead as Dreams was released in 2000 (recorded in 1998) which had elements of the what would eventually become known as Depressive Black Metal, which is the style that would later be mixed with post-rock influences and morph into the current "blackgaze" sound.



In 2001 Alcest released a standard black metal demo and Neige played drums on (the pre-Peste Noire band) Dor Daedeloth's "Aryan Supremacy" demo the same year.
Alcest didn't change direction until 2005. (As a side note 2005 coincides roughly with when I remember DSBM starting to explode as a subgenre.)


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## mgh (Dec 31, 2015)

As I said in my previous post this has been a thing since at least 1994


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## Grand Moff Tim (Dec 31, 2015)

They might want to rethink the subgenre tag. Maybe go with "post-black," like it was originally called. "Blackgaze" just makes me think "Black gays."


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## Demiurge (Dec 31, 2015)

celticelk said:


> Relevant: Debunking the &#8220;hipster metal&#8221; myth - Features - Alternative Press



As a longtime metalhead, I apparently like a lot of bands that are labeled (in the article as) "hipster metal". Yet I've also been called an elitist before. So conflicted... 

I think that there are some mischaracterizations of positions here. Invoking the whole "metal elitist" trope is the easy, so folks on the defensive will claim that the mindset is, "Hey, this band is getting a lot of attention from indie/mainstream press- posers!" 

My perspective is this: metal has been around for decades, there is an almost unfathomable diversity in styles, and there are bands and dedicated fans all over the freaking world- all this with barely a serious mention in the music press (unless it's Ozzy or one of the Big Four). If a music publication decides to acknowledge the existence of one or two underground-ish bands, I think that it's great for the band- good for them! At the same time, though, I don't think publications like AP deserve as big of a cookie as they think they're entitled to for finally realizing that this long-established, worldwide genre exists, and it's therefore silly to effectively bum-rush the tiny window opened.


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## oompa (Dec 31, 2015)

nu-metal is pop, djent is pop, they're fads that come and go  There will be a new one five years from now I'm sure.


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## UnattendedGolfcart (Dec 31, 2015)

Without ever hearing about it I came up with the phrase "blackgaze" to describe one riff I made earlier this week. I purely meant it as a joke to myself.

Now people think it's a genre.


I'm burning my cardigan.


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## The Hiryuu (Jan 1, 2016)

...yeah, Agalloch is the closest I'll get.


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## wankerness (Jan 1, 2016)

Demiurge said:


> As a longtime metalhead, I apparently like a lot of bands that are labeled (in the article as) "hipster metal". Yet I've also been called an elitist before. So conflicted...
> 
> I think that there are some mischaracterizations of positions here. Invoking the whole "metal elitist" trope is the easy, so folks on the defensive will claim that the mindset is, "Hey, this band is getting a lot of attention from indie/mainstream press- posers!"
> 
> My perspective is this: metal has been around for decades, there is an almost unfathomable diversity in styles, and there are bands and dedicated fans all over the freaking world- all this with barely a serious mention in the music press (unless it's Ozzy or one of the Big Four). If a music publication decides to acknowledge the existence of one or two underground-ish bands, I think that it's great for the band- good for them! At the same time, though, I don't think publications like AP deserve as big of a cookie as they think they're entitled to for finally realizing that this long-established, worldwide genre exists, and it's therefore silly to effectively bum-rush the tiny window opened.



There was a lot of backlash back around 2004 against Mastodon and Isis cause they were getting so many reviews from idiots in the mainstream and on Pitchfork that would say things like "metal was dead...but thank god [Mastodon/Isis] is around to revive it! These guys are singlehandedly keeping the genre alive and are the only fresh thing to come out of it in years! Also I can't name a single other contemporary metal band that isn't Slipknot, but I still am going to make all these sweeping statements about the genre!!!" It wasn't really that people didn't like their music, it was just extreme annoyance at the kind of press they were getting where they were frequently used as a jumping off point for hipsters to slag the entire genre. It was weird. Sunn O)))) got attention from Pitchfork at the same time, I wonder if the "hipster bands" listed in that article are the same deal ten years later? The article seems to mainly just be about people even LIKING it, while what I remember about that first wave of hipster-approved metal was how obnoxious and rude it was about the genre in general. It would have been fine if the mainstream liked it without having to qualify everything with "just so you know, all other metal is still awful and for manchildren!!"


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## AdenM (Jan 1, 2016)

I didn't read through every page of this post (it blew up for as inactive as this forum can be sometimes) but I think that blackgaze and the surge in popularity of post-metal (not that alot of these bands weren't around) and sonically raw and emotional songwriting is kind of the logical backlash to the saturation of djent and the second-wave of djent influenced metalcore (to distinguish it from earlier NWOAHM era bands like Trivium, Machine Head, etc.). Alot of those bands were so tightly produced and the like, I think it stands to reason that people's ears just got tired. I hope the scene continues to grow, as much as I want to tell people to .... off cause I listened to these bands first haha!

EDIT: Okay I read through the posts. I think djent has become a force to be reckoned with in the music industry, as stale as it has gotten (still a fan of some of the bands but w/e). It launched quite a few careers, changed the guitar and gear market place, and cemented the internet and the diy bedroom musician as just as capable of producing music as acts with big studios behind them. The internet also allows people to find all sorts of music that wouldn't normally be available to them - hence, a wider array of influences. I think the emphasis on gear and the diy aesthetic are appealing to musicians outside of just the metal community. If this means more people are listening to and producing metal, and we have more bands that are emphasizing a rawer, more un-polished sound, I'm stoked. I don't think any of us are going to have to listen to or like every band, but the cool thing about this "post-metal" genre is no two bands really sound the same. I get that hipsters are seen as pretentious, but so are metalheads, to outsiders. Sorry for rambling, Happy New Year guys!


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## Vhyle (Jan 1, 2016)

Ghost Bath
Mgla
Antlers
Deafheaven
Wolves in the Throne Room

So many others...

All of these bands kick ass. I don't give a .... what they're called. They're not "black metal" in the traditional sense, but if you want to call them "blackgaze", go for it. I still call them "black metal" regardless, because they still retain all of the similar qualities of it. 

And they also retain the rawness and bleak production values that some of us have grown to love with the older black metal, yet keeping the songwriting and arrangements fresh. It's all good stuff, whatever it is. Enjoy it for what it is. Don't get so bent out of shape on labeling it. Whatever you call it, the recording won't change.


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## vampiregenocide (Jan 1, 2016)

I don't think you can really tell what the next big thing is until it hits. Blackgaze certainly hasn't got a huge following like djent has or had, so while it may be the next trend, it's far too early to say. A lot of the bands that are known for that genre have been around some time, and it's yet to catch on in a big way.


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## Science_Penguin (Jan 1, 2016)

Demiurge said:


> Invoking the whole "metal elitist" trope is the easy, so folks on the defensive will claim that the mindset is, "Hey, this band is getting a lot of attention from indie/mainstream press- posers!"



It's made much easier when they literally describe a band's music as "Pop" as a point against them... and, by connection, imply that "Poppiness" (which usually just translates to "catchyness") is automatically a bad thing.

I know there's people who are overly defensive against people not liking their favourite artists, but, trust me, I've encountered a lot of metal elitists and I didn't have to "invoke" a damn thing.


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## AdamMaz (Jan 1, 2016)

Love it, more interesting than anything else I've been hearing in recent years.


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## Zalbu (Jan 1, 2016)

If you have to ask if something is "the new x" then it probably isn't. The thing about djent is that it evolved organically over several years pretty much single-handedly thanks to Misha (and Meshuggah) and only recently became a fad that people are emulating. Deafheaven releases one critically acclaimed album and now people are trying to slap a different label onto it?

I really don't see how blackgaze is any different from regular black metal or post metal that it needs a new label, at least people started using djent because prog metal is such a diverse genre. Opeth, Porcupine Tree, Dream Theater and Modern Day Babylon are all being called prog metal but they don't sound anything alike.


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## celticelk (Jan 1, 2016)

vampiregenocide said:


> Blackgaze certainly hasn't got a huge following like djent has or had



Djent may have a marginally larger following *among guitarists*, but I'll bet folding money that blackgaze bands are much better known among non-musicians. (Meshuggah being the obvious exception.)


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## Zalbu (Jan 1, 2016)

celticelk said:


> Djent may have a marginally larger following *among guitarists*, but I'll bet folding money that blackgaze bands are much better known among non-musicians. (Meshuggah being the obvious exception.)


I don't know about that, how many blackgaze bands are actually well known outside of Deafheaven? And even then, bands like Periphery, Tesseract and Animals As Leaders have more plays on Last.fm than Deafheaven. Deafheaven might have gotten more hype from places like Pitchfork but djent bands tend to have more passionate fans.


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## celticelk (Jan 1, 2016)

More streaming plays != better known.


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## Zalbu (Jan 1, 2016)

Do you have a better way of measuring how well known a band is? Because if people have managed to miss out on the Deafheaven hype then I seriously doubt that they know about any of the other blackgaze bands


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## bhakan (Jan 1, 2016)

From what I can tell, while the djent bands have more of following in the metal community, but next to no one knows them outside of metal fans. Deafheaven are more well known outside of the metal community but metal fans have deemed them "untrve" and they have less of a following from the regard.


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## wakjob (Jan 1, 2016)




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## Mathemagician (Jan 2, 2016)

So many "metal heads" getting mad when a metal band gains popularity of any sort. Like, listen to it or don't. Why do people get so worked up over stuff they don't like? It's even worse when a band group X likes changes their style significantly. Oooohhhh man.


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## DXL (Jan 3, 2016)

Mathemagician said:


> So many "metal heads" getting mad when a metal band gains popularity of any sort. Like, listen to it or don't. Why do people get so worked up over stuff they don't like? It's even worse when a band group X likes changes their style significantly. Oooohhhh man.



Regarding that last statement, it's probably one of my favorite things when a band changes their style. It keeps me interested.


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## Mathemagician (Jan 3, 2016)

DXL said:


> Regarding that last statement, it's probably one of my favorite things when a band changes their style. It keeps me interested.



Basically. I mean, if they had more great songs in the exact style of their last album they would have just put it on that album. A new album should mean new stuff/ideas. 

Easy example of what happens when you stay the same? Slayer. I own reign in blood. And like most of seasons in the abyss (because it's largely slower). I don't see a reason to buy another of their albums. I don't want "reign in blood 2" I want some dynamics in vocals/textures/etc. but others love that slayer just does one thing. I don't go around complaining when someone praises slayer, but I scratch that musical itch with some other albums/artists.

Also, you can rock slayer shirts at literally any concert. #metalfashion

What was I talking about again? Oh yeah, the new trivium is pretty dope. Also, digging the new track 1 off Deafheavens Bermuda.


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## Edika (Jan 3, 2016)

Grand Moff Tim said:


> "Blackgaze" just makes me think "Black gays."


 
This brought to mind "Black ice will sneak up on you and rob you of your balance" hahaha.

I had to go and search the term shoegaze that had no idea existed. Even though it's an old term it really made me feel old, in a sense of why bother with the stupid names. I haven't listened to any of these bands so I can't say anything more. It'll be an opportunity to listen to something different. I'm biased against bands that rely mostly to sounds than music to create atmosphere but that's just prejudice on my part.

I know a lot of people find hipsters insufferable, myself included, but I think they are a million times more preferable than the Emo fad that luckily died a horrible death. That and screamo (thank whatever deity and non-deity of your choice). Who said things always get worse?


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## BIG ND SWEATY (Jan 3, 2016)

as long as djent isn't the new djent again im fine with whatever


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## jonajon91 (Jan 3, 2016)

I've been away from SS.org for a week or so and it's time to open a cold one and see what I've missed, apparently a whole lot so here come the replies ... wooosh ...



Explorer said:


> Wait... is "djent" seriously considered a genre?



I don't know if this was a serious question, but if not then I took the bait and swallowed. I feel like there should be a good essay or something I should be able to link here on the evolution of language and the difference between prescriptive and descriptive language, but I don't know one so ill just blab on. If someone says to you the word 'djent' or says a group sounds like a djent band and you can imagine what they sound like, then it is a genre. I thought this question was resolved quickly but I guess a few people missed the answer. 
It's the same with blackgaze or any other microgenre floating around there, you can argue it's validity until you are blue in the face, but if you can say it and someone else knows what you mean then that is that. Genre. Language. 



leftyguitarjoe said:


> People getting into making textures and walls of sound is by no means a bad thing to me, so I say bring on the blackgaze.



Preach it



Sumsar said:


> Wikipedia says it is a thing, so there you have it! It is apparently a thing!



It's a thing, it's been around for a while.



lemeker said:


> Since we are talking about another genre, I wanna start a blackgazedjentacore band that has off beat rhythms and badass ambient breakdowns!!!
> 
> i know....I'll show myself out.....



Please do



Vhyle said:


> Ghost Bath
> Mgla
> *Antlers*
> Deafheaven
> ...



Antlers? Really? The same band that made the hospice album? I'm not seeing it.



Zalbu said:


> Do you have a better way of measuring how well known a band is? Because if people have managed to miss out on the Deafheaven hype then I seriously doubt that they know about any of the other blackgaze bands



It depends on where you spend most of your time reading/hearing about music. If you spend all day itdjents then it is the most popular genre in metal, if you spend most of your time here, you might accidentally think that thrash is still relevant. If you spend most of your time on /mu/ then djent came and went in 2012 and blackgaze has been a big deal since Defheaven we're demoing sunbather and still is now.
(edit for serious answer) - Look on websites like last.fm, people scrobble all the music that they listen to and it all tallies up on that website. You can find most artists there.

-----

There is a whole lot of buthurt in this thread and I'm actually pretty disappointed by a lot of it. If you can't handle music evolving then stay listening to what you did when you we're a teenager. In the meantime I will enjoy whatever comes my way, whether it is djent or post rock or new waves of black metal or some hybrid crossover that's floating about out there. I expected more from this forum in terms of open mindedness towards smaller rising genres since it was the home of djent from whatever year to whatever year.
Also that ghost bath album was awesome, but I've not had time to digest it properly yet (lots of new music on my plate at the moment).
Also the person asking about development that this new genre will bring to gear (pointing out that djent bought ergonomics and extended range to the table). Most of the development will be in pedals and pedalboards. Shoegaze was named so because performances were just people staring at their shoes all the time working their pedals.


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## akinari (Jan 3, 2016)

There's nothing evolutionary about several bands making essentially interchangeable pop songs using a lot of distortion and reverb.


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## MFB (Jan 3, 2016)

jonajon91 said:


> Antlers? Really? The same band that made the hospice album? I'm not seeing it.



You're confusing Antlers with THE Antlers, the latter of whom wrote Hospice.


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## jonajon91 (Jan 3, 2016)

^ haha, oopsy.


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## TGOD (Jan 3, 2016)

Just wondering why they couldn't come up with anything better than "Blackgaze". Shoegaze was already an incredibly dull name for a sub-genre. Combining it with Black Metal just sounds stupid.


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## Zalbu (Jan 3, 2016)

jonajon91 said:


> It depends on where you spend most of your time reading/hearing about music. If you spend all day itdjents then it is the most popular genre in metal, if you spend most of your time here, you might accidentally think that thrash is still relevant. If you spend most of your time on /mu/ then djent came and went in 2012 and blackgaze has been a big deal since Defheaven we're demoing sunbather and still is now.
> (edit for serious answer) - Look on websites like last.fm, people scrobble all the music that they listen to and it all tallies up on that website. You can find most artists there.


We're talking about what bands are more well known to the general public/non-musicians. Bands like Periphery and Tesseract are already becoming staple bands in our nook of the metal scene but the most well known shoegaze band I can think of that aren't Deafheaven would be Wolves In The Throne Room and I doubt many people out on the street would know about them if you asked them about it.


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## jonajon91 (Jan 3, 2016)

^ that could be because (while established earlier in the thread blackgaze has been around for a long time) Blackgaze is only just hitting the mainstream. Djent did it's thing and left a few bands that are still going, blackgaze is still doing it's thing. If blackgaze IS the new Djent then after it has done it's thing then there will be bands left with big followings just like with djent.
I'd also say that there are a good number of shoegaze bands in the public eye. Take 'My bloody valentine' for example who currently have the nineth highest rated album of all time this this random website.
Custom chart - Rate Your Music

Either way I completely lost the point I was trying to make a long time ago so it's best I stop.


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## DXL (Jan 3, 2016)

Zalbu said:


> We're talking about what bands are more well known to the general public/non-musicians. Bands like Periphery and Tesseract are already becoming staple bands in our nook of the metal scene but the most well known shoegaze band I can think of that aren't Deafheaven would be Wolves In The Throne Room and I doubt many people out on the street would know about them if you asked them about it.



Did you mean blackgaze instead of shoegaze? Because those bands aren't shoegaze. Shoegaze is Ride, My Bloody Valentine, Slowdive, etc.


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## Zalbu (Jan 3, 2016)

DXL said:


> Did you mean blackgaze instead of shoegaze? Because those bands aren't shoegaze. Shoegaze is Ride, My Bloody Valentine, Slowdive, etc.


...obviously


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## vilk (Jan 4, 2016)

OK so I was pretty positive it had everything to do with the pink album art.

Like, their first album was white and literally no one gave a f*** about the band. I remember the blond guy did an interview where he tried to label his band as "transcendental black metal" which people mocked, but basically everyone was like yeah whatever.

Make pink album art, do iphone commercial, get reviewed by hipster zine--people can't handle that s***.


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## celticelk (Jan 4, 2016)

vilk said:


> I remember the blond guy did an interview where he tried to label his band as "transcendental black metal" which people mocked, but basically everyone was like yeah whatever.



That wasn't Deafheaven - that was Hunter Hunt-Hendrix, from Liturgy, whose album came out about the same time as Deafheaven's debut.


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## vilk (Jan 4, 2016)

^well ...., if that's the truth then I actually don't have anything on the band to make fun of them. Except maybe the singers stage moves. But then again idk what else kind of moves you should do for this kind of music.


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## Necris (Jan 4, 2016)

MFB said:


> You're confusing Antlers with THE Antlers, the latter of whom wrote Hospice.



I was scrolling past and saw "A gaze..." and my brain automatically completed it as "A Gaze in the Northern Sky".


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## Blasphemer (Jan 4, 2016)

vilk said:


> ^well ...., if that's the truth then I actually don't have anything on the band to make fun of them. Except maybe the singers stage moves. But then again idk what else kind of moves you should do for this kind of music.



I remember an interview with - I _think_ - Wolves in the Throne Room, and the interviewer brought up moshing and how the band feels about it. The band said that they'd rather people lie down and cry during the set than mosh 

So, probably something like that...


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