# "Metal" scales?



## Cheesebuiscut (Apr 6, 2009)

I just started learning a bit of theory to begin writing my own music not too long ago and I noticed its damn near impossible to find any real "metal" scales. 

My friend recently showed me one scale that works really well, I call it the "Lamb of god" scale since hes a huge lamb of god fan and this scale tends to make everything sound lamb of god-esq. I'm sure it may have a legitimate name somewhere but this is what I call it.

0-1-4-5-7-8-10-11-12

Yeah I know, it has an extra note in it but I find it works with the scale. He really only showed me up to the 8th fret but I found the last 3 notes worked well too.

I've been trying to figure out some other diminished scales or progressions that give that really nasty metal sound but the only thing that I find works 100&#37; is the "Play lots of open notes" method.

My goal is to be able to find scales / progressions or shapes that allow me to play things that sound disgustingly metal even If I never strike an open note the entire song.

I know a few btbam licks that basically achieve that but I want to be able to create my own riffs to the same effect that still sound at least mildly unique.

So if anyone can show me some stuff or point me in a direction that could help me out I would greatly appreciate it. I'm pretty noob to writing, not entirely sure I should have posted this here and not the beginners section 

yeahhhh... Ty in advance for any assists!


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## Stealthdjentstic (Apr 6, 2009)

Please stop posting in super small fonts


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## Cheesebuiscut (Apr 6, 2009)

Sorry I use a 32" tv as a monitor so super small Is not all that small to me xD

Better?


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## addictus (Apr 6, 2009)

well if your going for brutal, i would say half/whole diminished scale. harmonic minor is also pretty popular in metal (as blood runs black/in flames)


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## Harry (Apr 6, 2009)

The "Lamb Of God" scale you refer to, if you remove the sharp 7th that you've added, is the phrygian dominant scale, which is the 5th mode of the harmonic minor.
There are no hard and fast rules as to what scales you can use in metal.
Black Sabbath relied a lot of pentatonics with chromatics thrown in and Black Sabbath is fucking metal as it comes. Even Megadeth used lots of pentatonic and chromatic stuff. Just depends on the sound you really want.
If you're going for a darker sound, you really want to know the Aeolian mode, harmonic minor scale, locrian mode and the associated chords/arpeggios that are derived from each.
Are you able to take music theory classes or able to afford theory books? If so, take them up on board because they can help you make sense of these things beyond purely theoretical terms.


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## vontetzianos (Apr 6, 2009)

I've heard some amazing riffs and passages written in the Lydian b6 scale, but its a good idea to get hold of some charts, maybe some good theory books, and learn most scales. By doing that, you have the options and a more devoloped tonal pallette, so you know what makes something insanely brutal.


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## ShadyDavey (Apr 6, 2009)

Progressions for metal almost universally don't stick to one key, so while I'm not a huge fan of stealing ideas from other players in might be wise in this case to study some killer riffs and plagarise a few ideas. As soon as you can start applying the ideas to your own playing at least you know you'll be in the right ballpark when it comes to style...you could do a lot worse than studying some Megadeth and Black Sabbath at the very least....

As for scales - you just need to know a little theory and be prepared to experiement. Augmented scales, diminished (half-whole and whole-half), Phrygian Dominant, The Enigmatic(1 b2 3 #4 #5 #6 7) some of the more exotic pentatonic scales (1, b3, 4, 5, 6. I remember Mick Goodrick using something like 1, 2, b3, 5, 6 for a Japanese sound. Then the in-sen (1, b2, 4, 5, b7) or dominant pentatonic scale (1, 3, 4, 5, b7) and another Japanese scale (1, b2, 3, 4, b6). On top of that, the Whole Tone (play augmented chords = instant thrash) and yes, chromatics can spice up _anything_ in order to make it sound metal. 

If you need information - there are a million .pdf's floating round the internet on the subject so give yourself a cool 30 minutes with a search engine and you can probably accumulate enough material for months of practice.


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## Excalibur (Apr 6, 2009)

There's no such thing as a "Metal" scale, and it's not all Minor for them.

I mean, BTBAM use quite a bit of Major, especially in some of their weird sweeps


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## Harry (Apr 6, 2009)

Excalibur said:


> There's no such thing as a "Metal" scale, and it's not all Minor for them.
> 
> I mean, BTBAM use quite a bit of Major, especially in some of their weird sweeps



They also use a diminished arpeggio substitution in the Selkies solo over the top of the E chord, where you would normally use a major arpeggio (if it were 1 3 5) or a dominant 7 if you used the 7th. 
I never though about using the diminished arpeggio substitution idea before over the the V chord of a major chord progression.
So there's one for the OP too, once he gets around to some cool sweep picking stuff, a cool idea for ya.


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## distressed_romeo (Apr 6, 2009)

I'd start with the following...

The major scale and its modes if you don't know them. Have the groundwork down before you jump into wierder stuff.
The harmonic minor scale and its modes (especially the Phrygian Dominant).
The diminished scale.

Whole-tone and augmented scales are useful as well, and if you want to get in fusion-metal then you'll need to know the melodic minor and its modes inside out.

Other than that, I'd experiment with adding chromatic ideas to your playing. The extent to which you want to this is a question of preference; do you want bluesy, Zakk/Dimebag style metal or full-on Trey Azagthoth style atonal craziness?

The main thing is to make sure you have the fundementals down. Once you've done that, it'll be much easier to come up with some really nasty-sounding stuff.


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## Nick (Apr 6, 2009)

ok i could be doing with some help on a related note.

i have no trouble constructing evil 'metal' sounding riffs but solos are another thing entirley.

im looking at Guitar Chords 

looking at the scales section, my band plays in C# tuning although im not sure whether this makes a difference to the actual principal.

say i want to play something from the 'phrygian dominant scale, which is the 5th mode of the harmonic minor' (quoted from Harry above)

how would i plug that into that website to give me the notes on the fretboard?

i know this may seem like cheating but i really need a starting point with understanding this and i think this may be it. Once i get my foot in the door so to speak im sure i will progress quickly with it as right now its like playing a game without knowing the rules and its pretty annoying!


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## ShadyDavey (Apr 6, 2009)

Db tuning with E harmonic minor - I think thats right?

E Harmonic Minor Guitar Scales

This would give you the harmomised chords:

http://www.all-guitar-chords.com/ch...c+minor+triad+i-ii*-III-iv-V-VI-vii*&get2=Get

Then you just need to move the shapes as for some reason the Chord Progession thingy doesn't allow for tuning alterations.


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## Excalibur (Apr 6, 2009)

HughesJB4 said:


> They also use a diminished arpeggio substitution in the Selkies solo over the top of the E chord, where you would normally use a major arpeggio (if it were 1 3 5) or a dominant 7 if you used the 7th.
> I never though about using the diminished arpeggio substitution idea before over the the V chord of a major chord progression.
> So there's one for the OP too, once he gets around to some cool sweep picking stuff, a cool idea for ya.


Personally, I'm not a fan of sweep picking, I sometimes call it a medium.
Because it's neither rare nor well done 

That being said, I'll take those joyful sounding major sweeps over Suicmez and Loomis' diminished arp wanking <3


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## Nick (Apr 6, 2009)

ShadyDavey said:


> Db tuning with E harmonic minor - I think thats right?
> 
> E Harmonic Minor Guitar Scales
> 
> ...



thanks!

question:

why did you choose E as the root note?


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## Cheesebuiscut (Apr 6, 2009)

Thanks guys! Yeah I actually bought the book "the complete idiots guide to music theory" and have been using that to teach myself theory. Its helped a lot but I always find myself using the same basic shapes etc to make something sound evil. Not to mention I have a poor learning curve when it comes to learning from a book compared to learning from a human being.

I'm going for that new age heavy metal sound bands like lamb of god, btbam, all that remains etc etc (Haven't looked up any real real fresh bands as of late)

To my generation bands like black sabbath and megadeth are more hard rock than metal by comparison. I know tech I'm supposed to drop all these diff "core" names for the different types of metal but I'm not a big fan of the random silly labels and wouldn't know them.

Thanks for letting me know which scale that was now I won't look as silly if I have to bring it up in conversation xD

I'll look up / mess around with some of these scales you guys mentioned and see if I cant come up with something half decent xD

I know a lot of it will be experimenting on my own which I've been doing a lot of lately but a direction always helps hah.

Ty!


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## ShadyDavey (Apr 6, 2009)

Nick said:


> thanks!
> 
> question:
> 
> why did you choose E as the root note?



Random click


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## Mr. Big Noodles (Apr 6, 2009)

Chromaticism is pretty heavy, but you have to know how to use it. Look at this Adagio lick:

e---------------------------------------------------------------8-7-8--6-5
b-----------------------------------------------6-5-6------5--------5
G-----------------------------------8-7-5--6---------6-8
D---------5------8-7-5-0-5-4-5-------8
A---5--6--6-5-6
E-3--3

It sounds like every chord is given its own key, a jazzy approach, which might be something you could consider.


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## Nick (Apr 8, 2009)

ShadyDavey said:


> Random click




so doing it in E just means that the Chords have to be in E as well?

i really know nothing *cry*


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## Scar Symmetry (Apr 8, 2009)

personally I like scales that have the same amount of space between each note so as examples:

0 - 3 - 6 - 9 - 12 (diminished)

0 - 4 - 8 - 11 -15 (augmented)

or scales that have the 2 of the same amounts of space in between the notes, examples:

0 - 1 - 3 - 4 - 6 - 7 - 9 - 10 - 11 (don't know this one's name)

0 - 4 - 6 - 10 - 12 - 16 - 18 - 22 (don't know this one's name either)

but I find all 4 to be very suitable for metal , try em out and have fun with them, I can sit there for hours making riffs with just one at a time!

oh yeah, and the Hungarian scale is pretty metal as well which is:

5E, 7E, 8E, 6A, 7A, 8D, 6D, 7D, 4G, 5G, 8G, 5B, 6B, 4E, 5E

hope this helps


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