# Best Power Tubes For Metal?



## RLG167 (Oct 26, 2016)

So I have to replace the power tubes in my Bugera 6262 (almost like a darker sounding 5150), and in trying to figure out what I need. I play Death Metal, so I usually keep the gain fairly low and scoop the bass. My EQ is usually about Mid-6.5, Bass-1.8, Treb-7, Presence-6.8, Gain-6.5. So I want a tube that can handle that low growl, but still give me good output and let chords ring out clearly. Any suggestions? My amp has a bias knob, so I can use a fairly wide range, but it recommends 6L6/12AX7.
Thanks, RG


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## TurboJT8 (Oct 26, 2016)

Winged C or Ruby 6L6GCMSTR are always good choices for power tubes...as far as tone and clarity goes you'll notice much more of a difference when changing the preamp tubes. Doug over at dougstubes.com has a tube package deal specifically for metal for the 5150...probably would just have to add an extra 12AX7.


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## Bearitone (Oct 26, 2016)

I loved my TAD 6l6's way more than the Rubys when I owned my 6505. I would definitely give them a try if you don't want to buy NOS Winged-Cs


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## budda (Oct 26, 2016)

There is no magic brand for tubes. Some generally have a better rep than others, but I guarantee you that there's albums cut with Sovtek 6L6's and no one is any wiser.

Just buy the tubes you can afford that have a good rep.


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## Bearitone (Oct 26, 2016)

budda said:


> There is no magic brand for tubes. Some generally have a better rep than others, but I guarantee you that there's albums cut with Sovtek 6L6's and no one is any wiser.
> 
> Just buy the tubes you can afford that have a good rep.



^^^ Amen.
The amount of research and effort you put in to choosing the "perfect" power tubes won't be worth the difference you notice.


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## MetalHead40 (Oct 26, 2016)

When it comes to altering the voice of an amp, power tubes are not going to give you something that isn't already inherent in the amps circuit design. They can slightly enhance/alter what's already there to some barely perceivable extent. As stated above, preamp tubes will make a bigger difference but again aren't going to make a huge voicing change. Your better off trying to get what your after from a different set of pickups or even different speakers. 

If your actually cranking the amp loud enough to light up the power section, then I would say different power tube characteristics will be noticeable, but its attributes like compression, vs. less compression, more mids/less mids, rounder bass (low end) vs sharper/tighter bass that differ.

I tried chasing that dragon for over a year with countless tube swaps and $$$ because I didn't know any better. The amp voicing I was trying to change was still there, I still hated it, and I eventually sold the amp and moved on to the amp that offered the voicing I wanted. 

Just my


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## mongey (Oct 27, 2016)

In my recto for 6l6 I've used Mesa branded (Ruby's ? ) , JJ and winged c

The winged c are expensive and I don't really like them. I usually chuck them in every few months and they last a few jams then get swapped back out. I don't like the low end with them. I find them too bass heavy in the recto. But in a less bottom heavy amp they could be great. 

JJ and the Mesa are Pretty similar. 

I also have a set of JJ el34's that I chuck in when I feel like a change. I usually like em for a while then out 6l6 back in as I prefer the clean channel with the 6l6.


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## Alekke (Oct 27, 2016)

Changing brands won't change the tone significally and your transformers can't take 6550. 
Just use most reliable ones. For example, my Ruby 6L6 died after year and a half, but JJ 6L6GC hold pretty good


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## lewis (Oct 27, 2016)

seeing more love for 6l6s in here. Am i the only one who prefers kt88s?.

6l6s are too boomy imo


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## RLG167 (Oct 27, 2016)

Thanks for all the replies, everyone. I've had this head for a few years now, but I've never really looked into the tubes, so I'm still trying to figure it out. What if I put in a rectifier tube? And Lewis what are kt88's?


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## MetalHead40 (Oct 27, 2016)

Oh boy


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## lewis (Oct 27, 2016)

RLG167 said:


> Thanks for all the replies, everyone. I've had this head for a few years now, but I've never really looked into the tubes, so I'm still trying to figure it out. What if I put in a rectifier tube? *And Lewis what are kt88's*?



They are a Different type of Poweramp tube. You have 6l6s, KT88s, El34s, EL84s there may be more too etc.

each has their own tonal (and power I presume?) characteristic. I personally prefer the sound of KT88s over 6l6's.

This is a good video by Ola where he compares the different tubes and sounds you will get from each one -


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## DeathChord (Oct 27, 2016)

I had a really good experience with the guys at Eurotubes, At the time I was using a Marshall DSL with the stock EL34's but after researching this sites info I switched to E34L's for a tighter bottom end and more headroom in the gain department, check em out.

http://https://www.eurotubes.com/store/pc/home.asp


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## cGoEcYk (Oct 27, 2016)

IMO 6550's 

I havent tried KT88's in my DR yet but would love to at some point.

The bigger tubes just slam more.


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## oracles (Oct 27, 2016)

lewis said:


> Am i the only one who prefers kt88s?



Nope, I love KT88's, and I'll use KT77's over EL34's any chance I get.




cGoEcYk said:


> IMO 6550's



I don't think he'll get 6550's in there, and I wouldn't suggest it even if he could. I love 6550's, but I wouldn't drop them in a 6262. 

OP, I'd just stick with the 6L6GC and 12AX7 tubes the amp suggests. As for what tube to buy, there's no "magic tube" that's light years better than another. My experience with 5150 variants and clones is that they tend to like Chinese tubes like the Shuguang's or Ruby's. They're inexpensive and easy to find. 

If you're willing to spend a bit more, I've found the combination of Svetlana 6L6's and Tung-Sol 12AX7's to work very well.


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## RLG167 (Oct 27, 2016)

I'll check my amp when I get home later and see what the recommended tubes are exactly (it's stamped on the amp) and with a bias knob, doesn't that mean I have more options for tubes?


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## oracles (Oct 27, 2016)

RLG167 said:


> I'll check my amp when I get home later and see what the recommended tubes are exactly (it's stamped on the amp) and with a bias knob, doesn't that mean I have more options for tubes?



It means you have more options as far as the bias range of tubes, not necessarily that you can throw in whatever tube you like. Bigger tubes require a greater distance apart from each other for proper heat dissipation, for example.


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## op1e (Oct 27, 2016)

The old non Infinium 6260/6262's have a switch for el34 or 6L6. If you like less bass and more grind I'd try KT77 or el34L, el34B. Another good option is JJ 6v6 if you wanna get the power section cooking more. They drop in for 6L6 but are rated for way less power. Probably 40w a quad instead of 120.


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## vick1000 (Oct 28, 2016)

Don't put $200 worth of tubes in a $200 amp. Get some froma reputible dealer that are burned in and then tested/matched. 

https://www.tubedepot.com/products/sino-6l6wgs-black-plate-power-vacuum-tube
https://www.tubedepot.com/products/sovtek-6l6wxt-plus-power-vacuum-tube

There is some bad info in this thread. Power tube type and construction, as well as bias and output, most certainly effects the tonal quality of your amp. Some power tubes reproduce harmonics in a different order, as well as vary in frequecy level just like an EQ.

You cannot put 6550/KT88s in place of 6L6s, they will probably torch your power tranformer or worse. 6V6 are not drop in either, you will fry them in most 6L6 amps in a few hours to a few weeks if the output transformer is not setup for their impedance needs. the "Infinium" tech is garbage and total BS, which is why they have such a bad rep. The original clones were at least fixable.

All tubes are made in three factories now.

Shuguang (China)
JJ/Tesla (Czech Rep.)
Reflector (Russia)
*Svetlana (Russia out of business)

Regardless of brand name, they are rebrands of those three manufacturers. Svetlana tube are still around but fading fast.


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## lewis (Oct 28, 2016)

vick1000 said:


> Don't put $200 worth of tubes in a $200 amp. Get some froma reputible dealer that are burned in and then tested/matched.
> 
> https://www.tubedepot.com/products/sino-6l6wgs-black-plate-power-vacuum-tube
> https://www.tubedepot.com/products/sovtek-6l6wxt-plus-power-vacuum-tube
> ...


i thought the bugera had auto biasing and its main marketing bs was that it could take any tubes?


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## vick1000 (Oct 28, 2016)

lewis said:


> i thought the bugera had auto biasing and its main marketing bs was that it could take any tubes?



It's marketing BS. Sure, you could auto bias between in spec tubes, but 6550/KT88s and 6V6 require completely different current specs. And that's IF the auto bias is working properly, which I doubt it is. I thik it was only designed with a small range so you could use off the shelf tubes instead of getting them matched and hand picked for a certain load/plate response.


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## op1e (Oct 28, 2016)

vick1000 said:


> Don't put $200 worth of tubes in a $200 amp. Get some froma reputible dealer that are burned in and then tested/matched.
> 
> https://www.tubedepot.com/products/sino-6l6wgs-black-plate-power-vacuum-tube
> https://www.tubedepot.com/products/sovtek-6l6wxt-plus-power-vacuum-tube
> ...



Not bad info regarding the JJ 6v6. Other 6v6 are not compatible, JJ's are made to be, ask Bob at Eurotubes. And my amp tech puts them in every Fender he gets ahold of without mods.


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## RLG167 (Oct 28, 2016)

I've heard the new Bugera amps are kinda junk with the Infinium. Mine is a first generation when they were about the quality of higher end Blackstars. It's really a great amp, been running strong 3+ years since I got it, and years before that


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## vick1000 (Oct 29, 2016)

op1e said:


> Not bad info regarding the JJ 6v6. Other 6v6 are not compatible, JJ's are made to be, ask Bob at Eurotubes. And my amp tech puts them in every Fender he gets ahold of without mods.



As long as the plate voltage is 450v or less, the JJ should be fine, but more than that and you are asking for trouble. So what's the plate voltage on a Bugera 6262?

Bob at Eurotubes has a conflict of intrest.


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## RLG167 (Oct 29, 2016)

I took the back cover off this morning and grabbed a couple pics. And off topic for a second, what's the best way to clean this? It's very dusty.
Anyways, here are some pics:





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## vick1000 (Oct 29, 2016)

I just pull all the tubes and chassis out, then use a rag with Lysol sprayed on it. Then a dry rag after, and a paint brush to get in those hard to reach places. The Lysol has alchohol in it, so don't get crazy with it, or it may strip some of that screen printing.

The bias test point there is useless BTW, you will need a bias probe to acuratey bias. And you should pull the chassis out to check the plastic connectors for heat damage or arching, Bugera is famous for that.


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## budda (Oct 29, 2016)

If your amp takes 6L6, you put in 6L6 tubes. Some amps can run different tube types, and I'm sure the Bugera is not one of them.

I like other tubes too - but stick with what your amp can handle, unless you mod it/it has been modded.


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## RLG167 (Oct 29, 2016)

budda said:


> If your amp takes 6L6, you put in 6L6 tubes. Some amps can run different tube types, and I'm sure the Bugera is not one of them.
> 
> I like other tubes too - but stick with what your amp can handle, unless you mod it/it has been modded.



Under the tubes it has 6L6/EL34 printed. Doesn't that mean I can use EL34s with it? My friend's Blackstars has EL34s and I love how it sounds.


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## Desolate1 (Oct 29, 2016)

RLG167 said:


> Under the tubes it has 6L6/EL34 printed. Doesn't that mean I can use EL34s with it? My friend's Blackstars has EL34s and I love how it sounds.



Right next to the bias test point and adjustment pot there is a switch to select between 6L6 and EL34. If you are running 6L6's or any of there variants (5881 or Kt66) you must have it set to 6L6 and if you are going to run EL34's or any of there variants (6CA7 or KT77). Now you must still adjust the bias after installing new tubes but the switch gets you in the proper range for each tube type. As others have stated you should stick to either 6L6's or EL34's or there variants with this amp. I would not run 6550's or KT88's in this amp as the I doubt the amp has the range in the bias adjustment to properly bias these tubes without modification and most certainly the power and output transformer are not up to the task. Also as others have mentioned a set of KT88's are going to run you more then the amp is worth.


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## budda (Oct 29, 2016)

Turns out I was wrong - good jog Bugera.

Just make sure your amp can and will work with the tube type you want to put in.

I'd love to run 6550's in my JCM800 but it's not set up for them, so I don't.


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## RLG167 (Oct 29, 2016)

Think I'll just go with 6L6's. I have like a $40 credit at musiciansfriend.com, so I'll check out what they have. See if they have any sets of 2 or 4


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## vick1000 (Oct 29, 2016)

RLG167 said:


> Think I'll just go with 6L6's. I have like a $40 credit at musiciansfriend.com, so I'll check out what they have. See if they have any sets of 2 or 4


 
Credit aside, I really recommend buying from Doug's Tubes, Valve Queen, or Tube Depot, and getting burned in tubes. Off the shelf tubes are a crapshoot, and overpriced at most retailers.

A set of the Sino Blackplates should only run you $80 max, burned, matched, and shipped, from Tube Depot.


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## RLG167 (Oct 29, 2016)

vick1000 said:


> Credit aside, I really recommend buying from Doug's Tubes, Valve Queen, or Tube Depot, and getting burned in tubes. Off the shelf tubes are a crapshoot, and overpriced at most retailers.
> 
> A set of the Sino Blackplates should only run you $80 max, burned, matched, and shipped, from Tube Depot.



I'll have to check that out, thanks. By a set, you mean four matched? Anyways, I just took out the tubes and cleaned my whole amp with lysol on a rag and paintbrush as suggested by vick1000, and I cleaned out the terminals with some compressed air, then I polished all the Bugera tubes that are in it now, and I have to say, it sounds so much better now! Maybe it was just dirty? I mean, I'll still replace the tubes because these are so old, but maybe I shouldn't be in such a huge rush now because it's acting better. I mostly noticed a much better response to the gain control, and it's less fuzzy than it was before I cleaned it.


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## Desolate1 (Oct 29, 2016)

budda said:


> Turns out I was wrong - good jog Bugera.
> 
> Just make sure your amp can and will work with the tube type you want to put in.
> 
> I'd love to run 6550's in my JCM800 but it's not set up for them, so I don't.



That is a pretty easy mod to do. All that is needed is to do a resistor value change to allow for the proper bias range. These amps shipped with 6550's at one point in time during the amps history. If you get 6550's in a cool enough grade you may not even need to do the mod but you will not know until you put the tubes in and try and bias them.


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## wakjob (Oct 29, 2016)

The last Marshall I had on my bench I pulled out my box of EL34's and did some comparisons one boring lonely night.

EH, Winged C, Shuguang, JJ, and x2F's.

There definitely is a overall tonal timbre change, with that class of tubes at least.
Quite a marked one at that. I won't get into superlatives, but it was very noticeable.


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## MetalHead40 (Oct 29, 2016)

I agree that you will hear some tonal difference and a change in feel between power tubes and preamp tubes. However, I do stand firm on my previous opinion that power tubes will not drastically change the voicing of an amp as some people claim. Not saying anyone in this thread has, but I get so sick of hearing guys claim that a tube swap turned their amp into a completely different sounding amp. It just aint gonna happen; tubes are but one component in a circuit of hundreds of components. 

I swapped power tubes in a PV Triple XXX II I used to own and switched between RUBY EL34BSTRs and JJ 6L6GCs, also changed all the preamp tubes with various cocktails and can agree and say sure the tone changed a little bit as did the feel but to say that there is a night and day difference, not at all IMO.

Swapped all 4 preamp tubes for various cocktails in my Engl FB100 and there was a LITTLE change in tone, a slightly bigger change in feel, but no where near the drastic change that most guys claim when tube swapping. 

Swapped all 6 preamp tubes with various cocktails in my Engl Savage 120 and same thing applied here. Some definite change in overall articulation, some MINOR change in the treble response and bass response but nothing that even remotely comes close to some mind blowing experience like so many claim when tube swapping. 

But hey, everyone hears things differently when it comes to tone, timbre, frequencies, etc.


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## budda (Oct 29, 2016)

www.thetubestore.com


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## narad (Oct 29, 2016)

MetalHead40 said:


> I swapped power tubes in a PV Triple XXX II I used to own and switched between RUBY EL34BSTRs and JJ 6L6GCs, also changed all the preamp tubes with various cocktails and can agree and say sure the tone changed a little bit as did the feel but to say that there is a night and day difference, not at all IMO.



I definitely observed a pretty significant difference between EL-34s and 6L6s in an Engl SE and in a Bogner 20th ecstasy. They'd still obviously do everything they did before and could probably be EQ'd out -- the feel was more apparently than the sound. With preamp tubes I just notice the difference between fresh and stale, and never had any significant repeatable character changes from preamp tube swaps.


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## KnightBrolaire (Oct 29, 2016)

what do you guys think of EL84s?


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## vick1000 (Oct 30, 2016)

KnightBrolaire said:


> what do you guys think of EL84s?



Avoid at all costs. Rather have a SS amp.


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## wakjob (Oct 30, 2016)

KnightBrolaire said:


> what do you guys think of EL84s?




http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/EL84-6BQ5-Tube-Types/Preferred-Series-7189-Premium-EL84

Gonna try these in my Fender BB 15 soon.
I LOVE Vox / Morgan / Dr. Z style medium gains.


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## MetalHead40 (Oct 30, 2016)

vick1000 said:


> Avoid at all costs. Rather have a SS amp.



The Engl Ironball I played sounded kick ass running EL84s.


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## Aymara (Oct 30, 2016)

I'm a bit astonished, that nobody mentioned, that the preamp tubes will make a bigger difference in sound, than different power tubes.

I would recommend, what Vick said ... contact a tube seller with a good reputation and use the same tubes, that are currently installed.

Nevertheless I would let a pro check the BIAS afterwards.

If you want more clarity and low end growl, exchange the preamp 12AX7 tubes to Genalex Gold Lion 12AX7 ... but these are expensive, 40 bucks each! If exchanging only preamp tubes, no biasing is needed.


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## MetalHead40 (Oct 30, 2016)

^^^
It was mentioned earlier in the thread by several of us my good sir.


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## Aymara (Oct 30, 2016)

MetalHead40 said:


> ^^^
> It was mentioned earlier in the thread by several of us my good sir.



Oops


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## Seventy (Oct 30, 2016)

MetalHead40 said:


> The Engl Ironball I played sounded kick ass running EL84s.



A lot of the lower wattage amps use EL84s rather than 6L6s and I think it's because it takes a lot to drive the 6L6s because of their headroom.

The mini-recto also uses EL84s along with the mini 6505 and EVH LBX. Basically once you get down to around 25 watts all these amps will generally be using EL84s.

I would agree that EL84s don't get the same tone as 6L6s driven hard but they can sound badass in their own way. I still prefer 6L6s over El84s though.


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## Orionsbelt456 (Nov 20, 2016)

I like the jj tubes alot. Good clarity


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## bluesmetalguy (Aug 4, 2020)

I just bought my first tube amp. I've played on and off for many years but only had solid state amps. I'm transitioning from playing metal to blues but still want to thrash out some metal riffs occasionally. My new amp (Laney cub 15w head and 2x12 cab gets nice blues tones but is completely incapable of anything close to a good metal sound (even with pedals). So I'm wondering if it's worth trying different tubes or if I should just buy another head for metal. I've heard the orange micro terror dark is good for metal.


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