# Lundgren Black Heaven



## sonoftheoldnorth

Hi all, long time lurker, first time poster. Apologies if there is already a thread, but I couldn't find it. 

The Lundgren M series is often talked about and I'm very familiar with the pickup, but nobody seems to have mentioned the new Black Heaven pickups. Lundgren claims they are more organic than the M series and have a wider frequency response, which sounds great. Does anyone have any experience of the pickup? Particularly in a 7 format. 

Cheers.


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## mnemonic

I’m also interested in this one, I’d love to hear someone compare them to the M series, the M7 is my favourite seven string pickup


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## KnightBrolaire

talk to zimbloth (aka nick from axe palace). 
he's the only person that i know has tried em


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## FitRocker33

I’m also curious about this one. The YT videos I was able to find were either scarce or sounded badly done.


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## Glades

Interested in these too.


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## Emperoff

KnightBrolaire said:


> talk to zimbloth (aka nick from axe palace).
> he's the only person that i know has tried em



I contacted him to get a set before getting swamped with a lot of unexpected expenses... Here's what he said (about the alnico version):

_I really love the alnico Black Heavens. These SMOKE the Sentient/Pegasus. Those, like most Duncans, are very bland and murky. I like the JB/Jazz a lot better even. The Black Heavens are much more articulate and responsive, yet still rich and powerful.
The Black Heavens would be like if you mixed the clarity of the Aftermath, but without the harsh highs and compressed feel, and infused some of the warmth of a good alnico pickup like the BKP Nailbomb/Holydiver. But again its really its own thing. Worth a try for sure!
_
Now, Lundgren master race, you peasants!


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## Zender

Id love to compare these to a set of black winters and some bkp juggernauts.
(Still on the fence about getting one of those two sets for my sevenstring... and now this comes along, damnit.)


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## mnemonic

Anyone had a chance to try these yet? 

Still interested to hear how they sound, and how they compare to the M7.


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## Bearitone

Wait, there’s a ceramic version of the black heaven?

Edit: wow they com standard ceramic. Now i have to check them out.


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## Dumple Stilzkin

Emperoff said:


> I contacted him to get a set before getting swamped with a lot of unexpected expenses... Here's what he said (about the alnico version):
> 
> _I really love the alnico Black Heavens. These SMOKE the Sentient/Pegasus. Those, like most Duncans, are very bland and murky. I like the JB/Jazz a lot better even. The Black Heavens are much more articulate and responsive, yet still rich and powerful.
> The Black Heavens would be like if you mixed the clarity of the Aftermath, but without the harsh highs and compressed feel, and infused some of the warmth of a good alnico pickup like the BKP Nailbomb/Holydiver. But again its really its own thing. Worth a try for sure!
> _
> Now, Lundgren master race, you peasants!


That sounds like it would be amazing! Certainly Curtisc about these now.


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## KnightBrolaire

fuck it, I've been the guinea pig for other pickups, guess I'll be the first person besides zimbloth on sso to try the black heavens.


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## Kyle Jordan

KnightBrolaire said:


> fuck it, I've been the guinea pig for other pickups, guess I'll be the first person besides zimbloth on sso to try the black heavens.



Just remember, go big. 6 AND 8 strings.


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## KnightBrolaire

Kyle Jordan said:


> Just remember, go big. 6 AND 8 strings.


patience grasshopper. I only picked up the 6 string sets for now (250-300$ a set hurts my wallet man)


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## Dumple Stilzkin

There's a decent discount on axepalace for black Friday (Thx18) for these. I would've bought one if they were offered in white.


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## Mwoit

I have a bridge pick up version coming in my guitar. I just don't know when my guitar is coming so... fingers crossed that they are decent.


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## mnemonic

I’m really close to ordering a seven string bridge model in ceramic. I need something new for my Mayones anyway. I really dig the M7 but it could be cool to try something with the same DNA but a different flavour.

Fuck it, I’ll probably buy one tomorrow.

I wonder if Johan makes these to order, or if he keeps stock.


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## mnemonic

Ordered one just now. 

at the checkout for his online shop there is a ‘refer a friend’ link to get 10% off, for in case any of you guys in Europe are on the fence about something Lundgren. 

https://tic.tl/CPYYt


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## Mwoit

mnemonic said:


> Ordered one just now.
> 
> at the checkout for his online shop there is a ‘refer a friend’ link to get 10% off, for in case any of you guys in Europe are on the fence about something Lundgren.
> 
> https://tic.tl/CPYYt



Let us know what you think. Have you got an M7 in a guitar you own or is it something you have tried?


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## mnemonic

Mwoit said:


> Let us know what you think. Have you got an M7 in a guitar you own or is it something you have tried?



I have an M7 in a schecter avenger 7, though this pickup will be for a different guitar.

Debating whether or not I want to try directly comparing them in the same guitar, I’m not sure I have the motivation to be swapping pickups around, we’ll have to see how I feel when it shows up


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## Dumple Stilzkin

Ordered one. Will post a review once I get it going.


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## BTS

I emailed Zimbloth and he suggested it might be too bright for an ash bodied ibanez... id be interested to hear what others think about it, as the demos sound good.


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## Emperoff

BTS said:


> I emailed Zimbloth and he suggested it might be too bright for an ash bodied ibanez... id be interested to hear what others think about it, as the demos sound good.



It will. He said something similar to me as my guitar is very bright as well. However, "The One" is the one you'll probably love for that guitar 

I'll be ordering a set of each for two different guitars in a couple of months. Can't wait!


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## mnemonic

My black heaven (7 string, ceramic, bridge) arrived Monday, got it installed about an hour ago. So this is all very much still in the honeymoon phase.

I put it in my Mayones Setius (all mahogany, maple top), replacing a JB that I swapped the magnet out for a double-thick ceramic. I liked that pickup, no major complaints (except it’s microphonic as hell and I need to repot it).

First impression of the Black Heaven is, wow clarity. It maintains the clarity and ‘dryness’ in the feel that the M7 has which is great. Slightly lower output than the M7, but not by much. I think overall slightly lower output than the SD it replaced.

In comparison, my big-ceramic-magnet-JB was a bit fuzzier and middier, less clear and less punchy, slightly higher output.

I felt like I was getting more treble than I need so I reconnected the tone knob on the guitar, now all is well. I had originally disconnected it to try to regain some clarity I felt I lacked with the SH5 and ceramic mag JB I’ve had previously in the guitar.

This particular guitar is very big and ‘wide’ sounding with a pretty big and resonant bottom end, that still comes though with the black heaven, but is controllable which I like. I’m not sure how well the pickup would do in a really bright guitar like something made of ash, maybe 250k pots would be a good choice in something like that.

This pickup, like the M7 I have in my other guitar, is on another level as far as clarity and punchiness go, which I really like. I can get why someone would say ‘sterile’ if they’re used to (and prefer) the slightly ‘slower’ or ‘mushier’ feel of a Duncan (or at least all the Duncan’s I’ve tried).

I don’t mean that as a jab at Duncan, as I dig their pickups, just kind of a feel thing I’ve noticed when comparing directly to the Lundgrens. 

If my thoughts change I’ll make sure to post again, if I remember.




Now I need something dimarzio for the neck, so they match.




It also came with a tshirt which is a nice touch. It even fits. I don’t remember if the checkout on the website asked for a shirt size, so maybe it was a lucky guess.



Edit- worth noting it’s a big thick pickup. Deeper, and the coils are slightly wider than the typical Duncan. The pickup routes in this guitar are very roomy and the pickup tabs are right there at the edges. Barely fits, but it does fit. Be prepared to route or sand if you have really tight routes on your guitar.


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## Dumple Stilzkin

So I installed my black heaven finally. These are my initial impressions. I like it. It's really clear and articulate just like mnemonic mentioned. It's in my RG7620, which is a very snappy and lively acoustically. So it MIGHT very well sound good in an ash bodied guitar. The EQ seems pretty neutral, I'm not really noticing any frequncies that are boosted or cut too drastically. I replaced a tone zone 7 for this, and I have to say it's easily my favorite pickup right now. I have an emgs in my 8 string, my other Ibanez had a nazgul in it. Which has a similar agression to the note attack. Very nice. But manages to do it without sacraficing the overall tone like the nazghul did. I play with my gain at about 65%, so I cranked it up to full kill and every note in a chord was still very defined. It's very nice to be able to hit a somewhat muddy chord and hear both the full chord. Very well balanced I say. So far it seems versatile, I rolled down my volume and got some nice lower gain tones. This pickup was a bit more than I would usually spend, but I must say the results are worth it. Lundgren did a terrific job on it. The one issue I could see others having with it, is that it will magnify all the bad thing's about your playing. Any flaws or flubs really show!


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## Abbath78

Anyone else using these on a 6 string? I have a ESP Horizon that's tuned to E Standard that I'm thinking about installing ceramic Black Heavens in. Wondering if they might be too bright though


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## Legion

Emperoff said:


> _ Those, like most Duncans, are very bland and murky._



It's statements like this that completely write off an entire brand make me not trust some people's opinions. I've been curious about the Black heaven too (and Lundgrens in general) but I'll be waiting for a more balanced review. I'm incredibly happy with my PAF Master for now though


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## narad

Legion said:


> It's statements like this that completely write off an entire brand make me not trust some people's opinions. I've been curious about the Black heaven too (and Lundgrens in general) but I'll be waiting for a more balanced review. I'm incredibly happy with my PAF Master for now though



But c'mon...most Duncans are kind of bland and murky. Plenty of good Duncans as well, but I've found DiMarzios to be more lively almost across the board. It's not like they don't know how to make a different kind of pickup, but for a long time the market wasn't exactly clamoring for it.


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## Legion

mnemonic said:


> My black heaven (7 string, ceramic, bridge) arrived Monday, got it installed about an hour ago. So this is all very much still in the honeymoon phase.
> 
> I put it in my Mayones Setius (all mahogany, maple top), replacing a JB that I swapped the magnet out for a double-thick ceramic. I liked that pickup, no major complaints (except it’s microphonic as hell and I need to repot it).
> 
> First impression of the Black Heaven is, wow clarity. It maintains the clarity and ‘dryness’ in the feel that the M7 has which is great. Slightly lower output than the M7, but not by much. I think overall slightly lower output than the SD it replaced.
> 
> In comparison, my big-ceramic-magnet-JB was a bit fuzzier and middier, less clear and less punchy, slightly higher output.
> 
> I felt like I was getting more treble than I need so I reconnected the tone knob on the guitar, now all is well. I had originally disconnected it to try to regain some clarity I felt I lacked with the SH5 and ceramic mag JB I’ve had previously in the guitar.
> 
> This particular guitar is very big and ‘wide’ sounding with a pretty big and resonant bottom end, that still comes though with the black heaven, but is controllable which I like. I’m not sure how well the pickup would do in a really bright guitar like something made of ash, maybe 250k pots would be a good choice in something like that.
> 
> This pickup, like the M7 I have in my other guitar, is on another level as far as clarity and punchiness go, which I really like. I can get why someone would say ‘sterile’ if they’re used to (and prefer) the slightly ‘slower’ or ‘mushier’ feel of a Duncan (or at least all the Duncan’s I’ve tried).
> 
> I don’t mean that as a jab at Duncan, as I dig their pickups, just kind of a feel thing I’ve noticed when comparing directly to the Lundgrens.
> 
> If my thoughts change I’ll make sure to post again, if I remember.
> 
> View attachment 65521
> 
> 
> Now I need something dimarzio for the neck, so they match.
> 
> View attachment 65522
> 
> 
> It also came with a tshirt which is a nice touch. It even fits. I don’t remember if the checkout on the website asked for a shirt size, so maybe it was a lucky guess.
> 
> 
> 
> Edit- worth noting it’s a big thick pickup. Deeper, and the coils are slightly wider than the typical Duncan. The pickup routes in this guitar are very roomy and the pickup tabs are right there at the edges. Barely fits, but it does fit. Be prepared to route or sand if you have really tight routes on your guitar.






Dumple Stilzkin said:


> So I installed my black heaven finally. These are my initial impressions. I like it. It's really clear and articulate just like mnemonic mentioned. It's in my RG7620, which is a very snappy and lively acoustically. So it MIGHT very well sound good in an ash bodied guitar. The EQ seems pretty neutral, I'm not really noticing any frequncies that are boosted or cut too drastically. I replaced a tone zone 7 for this, and I have to say it's easily my favorite pickup right now. I have an emgs in my 8 string, my other Ibanez had a nazgul in it. Which has a similar agression to the note attack. Very nice. But manages to do it without sacraficing the overall tone like the nazghul did. I play with my gain at about 65%, so I cranked it up to full kill and every note in a chord was still very defined. It's very nice to be able to hit a somewhat muddy chord and hear both the full chord. Very well balanced I say. So far it seems versatile, I rolled down my volume and got some nice lower gain tones. This pickup was a bit more than I would usually spend, but I must say the results are worth it. Lundgren did a terrific job on it. The one issue I could see others having with it, is that it will magnify all the bad thing's about your playing. Any flaws or flubs really show!



Thanks for the reviews folks! 



narad said:


> But c'mon...most Duncans are kind of bland and murky. Plenty of good Duncans as well, but I've found DiMarzios to be more lively almost across the board. It's not like they don't know how to make a different kind of pickup, but for a long time the market wasn't exactly clamoring for it.



I mean. Yes. Plenty of phenomenal duncans but that phrasing basically implies "okay it's now safe to avoid all duncans" to a lot of people.
Lively pickups (presumably brighter, more dynamic) are a preference for some people like you and me, "murky" (dark and compressed) are a preference for others. I just...disagree with the use of the word "bland" there, and that descriptor being applied to an entire range of 60+ offerings one company has. Please don't take this as me being overly combative or anything, I'm just stating my view on it.


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## Emperoff

Legion said:


> It's statements like this that completely write off an entire brand make me not trust some people's opinions. I've been curious about the Black heaven too (and Lundgrens in general) but I'll be waiting for a more balanced review. I'm incredibly happy with my PAF Master for now though


Hey, don't shoot the messenger!  I *didn't* say that. Nick (The Axe Palace) did. However, I was asking for 7-string pickups and my only experience with 7-string Duncans so far has been a JB-7/Jazz set. And the JB is... well, murky. And that's being polite. It sounds outstanding with my ENGL for some reason, though. I guess an ENGL can make anything sound tight. Also, Nick recommended me the M7 for a full maple guitar. So either he gets a greater cut for selling Lundgrens or he just loves bright tones and everything moderately warm is murky to him. That's why you have to try stuff for yourself and don't fall into the internet bullshit.

In the end I ended up not ordering them because Seymour Duncan (unlike Lundgren) makes their "active sized" pickups in 1mm plastic housings with exposed polepieces. Lundgren uses 2mm covers with no exposed poles which affect the string distance, and even Johan Lundgren itself adviced me against getting the set I wanted because of this. So I took a chance and bought a Pegasus/Sentient set used. I'll judge myself if they're murky or not when I install them.

I still want to try some Lundgrens if I get my hands on another guitar suitable for them. But you know what, I'm a sucker for aesthetics on guitar and having so many choices these days I can go with something that both sounds and looks great (custom covers) with other brands.


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## MSS

I recently got a set of Black Heaven’s from Axe Palace for my six string. Great, articulate pickup, a little forward in the mids. It has a midrange growl to it that makes it sound interesting. I think it’s a great rock/metal pickup but IMO I would not pick it over an M7 for metal tones. I tuned the 6 string down to drop a# just get an idea of how it would sound in a lower tuning.


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## Legion

Emperoff said:


> Hey, don't shoot the messenger!  I *didn't* say that. Nick (The Axe Palace) did. However, I was asking for 7-string pickups and my only experience with 7-string Duncans so far has been a JB-7/Jazz set. And the JB is... well, murky. And that's being polite. It sounds outstanding with my ENGL for some reason, though. I guess an ENGL can make anything sound tight. Also, Nick recommended me the M7 for a full maple guitar. So either he gets a greater cut for selling Lundgrens or he just loves bright tones and everything moderately warm is murky to him. That's why you have to try stuff for yourself and don't fall into the internet bullshit.
> 
> In the end I ended up not ordering them because Seymour Duncan (unlike Lundgren) makes their "active sized" pickups in 1mm plastic housings with exposed polepieces. Lundgren uses 2mm covers with no exposed poles which affect the string distance, and even Johan Lundgren itself adviced me against getting the set I wanted because of this. So I took a chance and bought a Pegasus/Sentient set used. I'll judge myself if they're murky or not when I install them.
> 
> I still want to try some Lundgrens if I get my hands on another guitar suitable for them. But you know what, I'm a sucker for aesthetics on guitar and having so many choices these days I can go with something that both sounds and looks great (custom covers) with other brands.



LOL sorry sorry I didn't mean to imply that I thought you said it 
I know it was Zim. He's had this whole "pickups that cost an arm, a leg and a kidney are better than Duncans or DiMarzios" thing for a while now lol. He may have his reasons, it's just a narrative that I personally have no reason to believe.

As for the JB: yeah, it's a pretty bleh pickup, we can agree there. The Custom Five however is a fucking monster. As is the Distortion. Never tried the Pegasus/Sentient, let us know how it goes! Good luck!


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## BananaDemocracy

Very nice. The M7 is not only so iconic, it really IS the most METAL/DJENT/"WHATEVER MAKING ME SMASH MY GUITAR IN A CREATIVE FASION SOUNDS LIKE" lol but I do like to see Lundgren offering other things because it sucks when incredibly talented and versatile artists or inventors often have a lot more to offer but audiences make them 1 hit wonders, when they are so much more!

Thanks for posting OP and for the vids!


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## mnemonic

I've wanted to compare my M7 and Black Heaven (ceramic magnet) in the same guitar for a while now, but I haven't had the motivation to take apart guitars. Though I have little else to do at the moment so here we go. 

I'm still very happy with the Black Heaven in my Setius. Its a really big and thick sounding guitar, with a very resonant low end. None of my other guitars sound as massive on a palm mute as this guitar. That was the bane of my existence when I had looser pickups in it (Duncan JB and SH5), though the Black Heaven made it much more controllable. That being said, I did kinda want to try the M7 in this guitar, to give it some more attack and 'metallness'

The M7 in my Avenger is great, but the guitar does tend to make all my other guitars sound kinda dull in comparison. And when I'm used to playing my other guitars, the M7-loaded Schecter Avenger sounds more grating, and sharper in the upper midrange. A few amp tweaks takes care of that but I'm usually too lazy to do that so the guitar hasn't been played as much lately, i'm spending most of my 7-string time on my Mayones Regius (with covered BK Aftermaths). 

So I swapped the pickups around today, Black Heaven in the Schecter Avenger (which itself is a more focused sounding guitar), and the M7 into the Mayones Setius (which itself is a more wide, thick, open, and resonant sounding guitar). I'm very happy with the results. 

My assumptions about the pickups were broadly correct - comparing the two, the Black Heaven is brighter, though lower output and voiced less 'in your face metal'. Still very tight, clear, punchy, no mud to be found. But a more laid-back feel to it. 

The M7 is more aggressive and metal sounding, maybe slightly tighter? Not as bright but still very clear sounding.

The M7 in the Setius adds a bit more aggression, controls the bottom end a bit more (though still huge), and overall is a great fit for this guitar. 

The Black Heaven in the Avenger tames the guitar down a bit, less aggro sounding but it is still a tight and punchy guitar. The extra high end from the Black Heaven does make this guitar a djent-machine, i'm currently undecided if i want to add a tone knob to smooth that off a bit. At the moment I'm quite happy that each guitar has its own voice and flavor, but they are not so different that I need different amp settings for each. 

I didn't think about recording clips until I was tuning up the now-completed guitars, so sorry about that. 

Only issue I had was when installing the Black Heaven into the Avenger - I think it may be marginally thicker than the M7, or maybe the baseplate legs are longer, since its sits taller. The routes are shallow in the Avenger anyway, so screwed flat to the body, its still quite close. especially on the treble side. It sounds fine so I will leave it for now, but i may need to bust out the router and deepen the route if it bothers me or causes issues. 

also the hole spacing may be slightly wider on the Black Heaven, like maybe 1mm further apart, i had to fill and redrill one mounting hole on the Avenger.


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## Emperoff

Has anyone compared these to the Elysian Tridents II? Specifically the alnico ones.


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## KnightBrolaire

Emperoff said:


> Has anyone compared these to the Elysian Tridents II? Specifically the alnico ones.


 I have DIs and demos of both sets over in my shootout thread


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## Dumple Stilzkin

mnemonic said:


> I've wanted to compare my M7 and Black Heaven (ceramic magnet) in the same guitar for a while now, but I haven't had the motivation to take apart guitars. Though I have little else to do at the moment so here we go.
> 
> I'm still very happy with the Black Heaven in my Setius. Its a really big and thick sounding guitar, with a very resonant low end. None of my other guitars sound as massive on a palm mute as this guitar. That was the bane of my existence when I had looser pickups in it (Duncan JB and SH5), though the Black Heaven made it much more controllable. That being said, I did kinda want to try the M7 in this guitar, to give it some more attack and 'metallness'
> 
> The M7 in my Avenger is great, but the guitar does tend to make all my other guitars sound kinda dull in comparison. And when I'm used to playing my other guitars, the M7-loaded Schecter Avenger sounds more grating, and sharper in the upper midrange. A few amp tweaks takes care of that but I'm usually too lazy to do that so the guitar hasn't been played as much lately, i'm spending most of my 7-string time on my Mayones Regius (with covered BK Aftermaths).
> 
> So I swapped the pickups around today, Black Heaven in the Schecter Avenger (which itself is a more focused sounding guitar), and the M7 into the Mayones Setius (which itself is a more wide, thick, open, and resonant sounding guitar). I'm very happy with the results.
> 
> My assumptions about the pickups were broadly correct - comparing the two, the Black Heaven is brighter, though lower output and voiced less 'in your face metal'. Still very tight, clear, punchy, no mud to be found. But a more laid-back feel to it.
> 
> The M7 is more aggressive and metal sounding, maybe slightly tighter? Not as bright but still very clear sounding.
> 
> The M7 in the Setius adds a bit more aggression, controls the bottom end a bit more (though still huge), and overall is a great fit for this guitar.
> 
> The Black Heaven in the Avenger tames the guitar down a bit, less aggro sounding but it is still a tight and punchy guitar. The extra high end from the Black Heaven does make this guitar a djent-machine, i'm currently undecided if i want to add a tone knob to smooth that off a bit. At the moment I'm quite happy that each guitar has its own voice and flavor, but they are not so different that I need different amp settings for each.
> 
> I didn't think about recording clips until I was tuning up the now-completed guitars, so sorry about that.
> 
> Only issue I had was when installing the Black Heaven into the Avenger - I think it may be marginally thicker than the M7, or maybe the baseplate legs are longer, since its sits taller. The routes are shallow in the Avenger anyway, so screwed flat to the body, its still quite close. especially on the treble side. It sounds fine so I will leave it for now, but i may need to bust out the router and deepen the route if it bothers me or causes issues.
> 
> also the hole spacing may be slightly wider on the Black Heaven, like maybe 1mm further apart, i had to fill and redrill one mounting hole on the Avenger.
> 
> View attachment 78968


Good information here. Thanks!!


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## Emperoff

KnightBrolaire said:


> I have DIs and demos of both sets over in my shootout thread



Checking out the DIs, since the demos have clearly different settings. Downloading...

EDIT: Ok, so I compared them with a random VST. Black Heavens are definetely brighter than ceramic Trident IIs, so they will be even brighter than the Alnico ones. It's specially noticeable on the neck pickup.

I replaced a BKP Aftermath for a Trident II set since the BKPs were too dry and harsh but now I miss some agression. Perhaps those will do the trick. They sound quite agressive to be alnicos!


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

mnemonic said:


> I've wanted to compare my M7 and Black Heaven (ceramic magnet) in the same guitar for a while now, but I haven't had the motivation to take apart guitars. Though I have little else to do at the moment so here we go.
> 
> I'm still very happy with the Black Heaven in my Setius. Its a really big and thick sounding guitar, with a very resonant low end. None of my other guitars sound as massive on a palm mute as this guitar. That was the bane of my existence when I had looser pickups in it (Duncan JB and SH5), though the Black Heaven made it much more controllable. That being said, I did kinda want to try the M7 in this guitar, to give it some more attack and 'metallness'
> 
> The M7 in my Avenger is great, but the guitar does tend to make all my other guitars sound kinda dull in comparison. And when I'm used to playing my other guitars, the M7-loaded Schecter Avenger sounds more grating, and sharper in the upper midrange. A few amp tweaks takes care of that but I'm usually too lazy to do that so the guitar hasn't been played as much lately, i'm spending most of my 7-string time on my Mayones Regius (with covered BK Aftermaths).
> 
> So I swapped the pickups around today, Black Heaven in the Schecter Avenger (which itself is a more focused sounding guitar), and the M7 into the Mayones Setius (which itself is a more wide, thick, open, and resonant sounding guitar). I'm very happy with the results.
> 
> My assumptions about the pickups were broadly correct - comparing the two, the Black Heaven is brighter, though lower output and voiced less 'in your face metal'. Still very tight, clear, punchy, no mud to be found. But a more laid-back feel to it.
> 
> The M7 is more aggressive and metal sounding, maybe slightly tighter? Not as bright but still very clear sounding.
> 
> The M7 in the Setius adds a bit more aggression, controls the bottom end a bit more (though still huge), and overall is a great fit for this guitar.
> 
> The Black Heaven in the Avenger tames the guitar down a bit, less aggro sounding but it is still a tight and punchy guitar. The extra high end from the Black Heaven does make this guitar a djent-machine, i'm currently undecided if i want to add a tone knob to smooth that off a bit. At the moment I'm quite happy that each guitar has its own voice and flavor, but they are not so different that I need different amp settings for each.
> 
> I didn't think about recording clips until I was tuning up the now-completed guitars, so sorry about that.
> 
> Only issue I had was when installing the Black Heaven into the Avenger - I think it may be marginally thicker than the M7, or maybe the baseplate legs are longer, since its sits taller. The routes are shallow in the Avenger anyway, so screwed flat to the body, its still quite close. especially on the treble side. It sounds fine so I will leave it for now, but i may need to bust out the router and deepen the route if it bothers me or causes issues.
> 
> also the hole spacing may be slightly wider on the Black Heaven, like maybe 1mm further apart, i had to fill and redrill one mounting hole on the Avenger.
> 
> View attachment 78968



Just read your review. From what I gathered; if I wanna tighten up my 24.75 Les Paul-esque guitar in drop B which is currently loaded with a JB-ish clone, I'd still go for the M6 over the Black Heaven|?


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## mnemonic

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Just read your review. From what I gathered; if I wanna tighten up my 24.75 Les Paul-esque guitar in drop B which is currently loaded with a JB-ish clone, I'd still go for the M6 over the Black Heaven|?



The M7 is tighter and more 'metal' in my opinion, but either are tighter, clearer, and punchier than any SD's I've used. 

I have had a JB-7 in the Mayones but not sure how similar that actually is to the 6-string JB. Its been a long time since it was in there, but I do remember it was not very tight or clear in comparison. A big ceramic magnet made the JB-7 much closer to something I like, but the Lundgrens were still tighter and clearer.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

mnemonic said:


> The M7 is tighter and more 'metal' in my opinion, but either are tighter, clearer, and punchier than any SD's I've used.
> 
> I have had a JB-7 in the Mayones but not sure how similar that actually is to the 6-string JB. Its been a long time since it was in there, but I do remember it was not very tight or clear in comparison. A big ceramic magnet made the JB-7 much closer to something I like, but the Lundgrens were still tighter and clearer.



The pickup I'm dealing with is the Dean Baker Act. It's like a JB but with a slightly tighter low end and less "twang". I liked it tuned up, but when I tuned down it did lose the clarity and tightness. 

I ended up buying a Lace Drop & Gain second hand, but I'd def be curious to try an M6/M7 given the chance.


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## KnightBrolaire

Emperoff said:


> Checking out the DIs, since the demos have clearly different settings. Downloading...
> 
> EDIT: Ok, so I compared them with a random VST. Black Heavens are definetely brighter than ceramic Trident IIs, so they will be even brighter than the Alnico ones. It's specially noticeable on the neck pickup.
> 
> I replaced a BKP Aftermath for a Trident II set since the BKPs were too dry and harsh but now I miss some agression. Perhaps those will do the trick. They sound quite agressive to be alnicos!


The demos don't have different settings... That's literally the whole point of my shootout, to minimize variables and give people a pretty decent idea of how pickups compare to each other.
that is also why I do DIs..

But yeah the black heavens have way more treble in my mushok compared to the trident iis.


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## Emperoff

KnightBrolaire said:


> The demos don't have different settings... That's literally the whole point of my shootout, to minimize variables and give people a pretty decent idea of how pickups compare to each other.
> that is also why I do DIs..
> 
> But yeah the black heavens have way more treble in my mushok compared to the trident iis.



They sound radically different then. I didn't expect the Black Heaven to be that bright.

BTW, have you thought about miking up the amp? The DIs are really helpful, but camera audio doesn't capture nuances that well. Or perhaps a direct out using always the same impulse.

Considering the work you put into pickup testing, I think you could set up a nice demo channel with a bit of editing and a standarized procedure


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## KnightBrolaire

Emperoff said:


> They sound radically different then. I didn't expect the Black Heaven to be that bright.
> 
> BTW, have you thought about miking up the amp? The DIs are really helpful, but camera audio doesn't capture nuances that well. Or perhaps a direct out using always the same impulse.
> 
> Considering the work you put into pickup testing, I think you could set up a nice demo channel with a bit of editing and a standarized procedure


They do sound very different. The tridents are def lower output and don't feel as thick in the low mids, but have more low end ime. Black heavens smear notes a bit more, but they're still quite clear.

I've thought about miking up the f30 or doing direct to wall of sound, but that defeats the whole point of my shootout. Too many new variables introduced, plus DIs eliminate any issue with camera audio or other clips and people can use the DIs through their preferred settings/gear.
I have tons of supplemental clips where I use different amps and go direct/use IRs, I just haven't bothered making many of them into videos yet.


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## Emperoff

KnightBrolaire said:


> They do sound very different. The tridents are def lower output and don't feel as thick in the low mids, but have more low end ime. Black heavens smear notes a bit more, but they're still quite clear.
> 
> I've thought about miking up the f30 or doing direct to wall of sound, but that defeats the whole point of my shootout. Too many new variables introduced, plus DIs eliminate any issue with camera audio or other clips and people can use the DIs through their preferred settings/gear.
> I have tons of supplemental clips where I use different amps and go direct/use IRs, I just haven't bothered making many of them into videos yet.



I gotta be frank dude. Everyone hates camera audio and it's as pointless as it gets. DIs are useful, but no one will find useful a comparison between two things with crappy audio.

Removing it and going direct you wouldn't be introducing new variables, you'd be setting a decent testing procedure tone for future videos. It's like comparing stuff with a 240p camera and not wanting to upgrade it to retain objectiveness with older videos. It's still crappy video. Go Full HD or 4k. Same with audio.

Not trying to be an ass or anything, I'm legitimately trying to help. Your reviews are useful, your DIs are useful. But noodling 15 minutes with camera audio will not appeal anyone.


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## V1adimir

Is it worth moving from SD Alpha/Omega to Black Heaven? Is there an advantage of Lundgren over Seymour Duncan in general?


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## Legion

holy thread necromancy, batman!

To answer your question: no

They're pickups. Not Erskine's supersoldier serum. You can talk about specific models of pickups going into specific guitar types to be played in a specific rig for a specific genre. But no brand has an inherent "advantage" over another.


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## sell2792

V1adimir said:


> Is it worth moving from SD Alpha/Omega to Black Heaven? Is there an advantage of Lundgren over Seymour Duncan in general?



Having not played the Black Heavens, I can honestly say the Alpha/Omegas are probably one of the best sets I’ve ever used or owned.


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## gunch

Legion said:


> holy thread necromancy, batman!
> 
> To answer your question: no
> 
> They're pickups. Not Erskine's supersoldier serum. You can talk about specific models of pickups going into specific guitar types to be played in a specific rig for a specific genre. But no brand has an inherent "advantage" over another.



Make this into a plaque


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## KnightBrolaire

V1adimir said:


> Is it worth moving from SD Alpha/Omega to Black Heaven? Is there an advantage of Lundgren over Seymour Duncan in general?


There's no real advantage, they just offer different flavors and are designed for different things. The a/o set is great, but the black heavens are cleaner, clearer and lower output.


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## V1adimir

Legion said:


> holy thread necromancy, batman!
> 
> To answer your question: no
> 
> They're pickups. Not Erskine's supersoldier serum. You can talk about specific models of pickups going into specific guitar types to be played in a specific rig for a specific genre. But no brand has an inherent "advantage" over another.



You're right. I have a classic RG2228, which was purchased with DiMarzio D Activator pickups. Excellent pickups, fairly high output, readable on high gain, crisp cleans. A couple of years ago I decided to try other pickups and my choice fell on Pegasus/Sentient, which were not bad, but after them I realized that I like cermaic magnet more than alnico, and unlike DiMarzio, Duncans are fatter and darker on clean sound, which I don't really like. And another big + for DiMarzio is that they have less noise than Duncans. A year ago I bought Alpha/Omega and these are also excellent pickups, which I personally liked much more than murky Pegasus/Sentient, but still there is a feeling that something is missing. I sold the D Activator set a long time ago and now I regret it, now I'm thinking either to try something from Lundgren, about whom I've heard so many good reviews, or not to experiment and buy D Activator again, which are much cheaper and more affordable. As for the genre, well, let me name Meshuggah, Periphery and Intervals as a reference point for the sound 




KnightBrolaire said:


> There's no real advantage, they just offer different flavors and are designed for different things. The a/o set is great, but the black heavens are cleaner, clearer and lower output.



So Black Heaven is medium output pickups? A/O is a high output, but at the same time I would say that it is quite restrained, something between high and medium. Also, someone else wrote, on this forum or somewhere else, that Black Heavens are well suited to basswood.


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## Flappydoodle

V1adimir said:


> So Black Heaven is medium output pickups? A/O is a high output, but at the same time I would say that it is quite restrained, something between high and medium. Also, someone else wrote, on this forum or somewhere else, that Black Heavens are well suited to basswood.



Black Heaven is medium output yes. Definitely NOT high output. They have a pretty chunky low end. Tight. Clean. Very "dry" sounding with tons of string definition. They don't have that kinda "wah" sound that a lot of modern pickups have.

A/O set, to me, was still more of a djent pickup. Not to my taste at all.


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## V1adimir

Flappydoodle said:


> Black Heaven is medium output yes. Definitely NOT high output. They have a pretty chunky low end. Tight. Clean. Very "dry" sounding with tons of string definition. They don't have that kinda "wah" sound that a lot of modern pickups have.
> 
> A/O set, to me, was still more of a djent pickup. Not to my taste at all.



Yes, A/O are definitely narrowly focused not as versatile as we would like. 

There was an opinion that Black Heaven retained the aggression of the M8, is it possible with medium output?


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## Flappydoodle

V1adimir said:


> Yes, A/O are definitely narrowly focused not as versatile as we would like.
> 
> There was an opinion that Black Heaven retained the aggression of the M8, is it possible with medium output?



I never played an M8, so I'm not sure, sorry


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## KnightBrolaire

V1adimir said:


> Yes, A/O are definitely narrowly focused not as versatile as we would like.
> 
> There was an opinion that Black Heaven retained the aggression of the M8, is it possible with medium output?


Black heaven share some sonic qualities with the M8, but no, it's not as aggressive at the same gain levels. It can still get very aggressive (provided you throw enough gain at it) and it retains that classic lundgren M series low mid growl. It's just a different beast from the M series tbh.


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## V1adimir

KnightBrolaire said:


> Black heaven share some sonic qualities with the M8, but no, it's not as aggressive at the same gain levels. It can still get very aggressive (provided you throw enough gain at it) and it retains that classic lundgren M series low mid growl. It's just a different beast from the M series tbh.



And if you compare A/O with M8, how different are they?


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## KnightBrolaire

V1adimir said:


> And if you compare A/O with M8, how different are they?


pretty different in voicing/feel. M8 has a stiffer, more percussive feel with a sledgehammer low end. Cleans are mediocre and not as good as the A/O set. The low mid growl they have can cause some murkiness with chords. High end can be a bit too sharp/overwhelming in the wrong guitar. the m8 is higher output and slams the front of an amp.


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## jyym

KnightBrolaire said:


> pretty different in voicing/feel. M8 has a stiffer, more percussive feel with a sledgehammer low end. Cleans are mediocre and not as good as the A/O set. The low mid growl they have can cause some murkiness with chords. High end can be a bit too sharp/overwhelming in the wrong guitar. the m8 is higher output and slams the front of an amp.


how do like the black heaven cleans, and combined split coil sounds from them? For example both inner or both outers


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## KnightBrolaire

jym said:


> how do like the black heaven cleans, and combined split coil sounds from them? For example both inner or both outers


Cleans are great. Significantly better than the M series, which are kind of cold and dull ime. I can't really comment on the split coil sounds as I didn't have them in a guitar with splitting capability at the time.


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