# Low Tuning



## ARKAEAN (Sep 13, 2009)

I went on Octave4.com and found that they sell a fourstring set with gauges of .185(E0), .160(A0), .130(D1), and .100(G1), an octave from standard tuning.

My guitarists tune D2-A3-D3-G3-B3-E4-A4 (Common drop-D with a high A) and D1-A2-D2-G2-B2-E3-A3, an octave down, and I am wondering if I could tune an octave from our lower guitarist, as a SEVENSTRING bass at DADGBEA. Octave4 make a .262-gauge G#00, so apparently you would have little problem going that low?

RAN Guitars said they could build a bass for tuning that low, but what hardware..pickups, amps might I need?

Azhra


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## I_infect (Sep 13, 2009)

ARKAEAN said:


> so apparently you would have little problem going that low?
> 
> Azhra



Warwick made a bass called the vampire dark lord, it was 35" scale 4 string and it was tuned F#-B-E-A. It's discontinued though. The problem with going that low isn't tuning, it's actually hearing it. The lower the frequency the more power it takes for us to hear it. In my opinion you would probably feel that low D more than hear. You really have to research freq response and range on the gear to handle it. D0 is about 18hz.


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## MF_Kitten (Sep 13, 2009)

i´m having a custom bass built right now to tune to drop E, just a single note higher than what you´re after. the bass will have a 40" scale length, and use Circle K strings, which are made for low tunings. O4P can provide you with strings to do the same, of course.

so i´d say either go for at least 35" scale, maybe 37" scale if you want to go a bit further, or if you´re really adventurous like me, 40" scale. you will need custom made strings for this purpose no matter what you go for. the shorter the scale length is, the thicker and stiffer the strings need to be. longer scale lengths will be clearer, but harder to play.

as for pickups and hardware: i´m going to use Q-tuner pickups, but you could also use EMG or Bartolini. both will be clear-sounding as far as i know.

but do think about getting a custom bass made with a looong scale length. it´ll make a huge difference.

edit: I_infect, you have a point in one way, but you don´t need to hear the fundamental frequency of those low notes for it to sound awesome. in my experience, sub-octave bass sounds best when you boost the 100-300 hz range. you con´t really need to hear the lowest frequencies. 

example: http://soundclick.com/share?songid=7935120

this is a song i recorded with the 8 string in drop E. when the heavy part kicks in, there´s a transposed guitar track that is an octave below the regular guitar tracks. there´s not a whole lot of fundamental frequencies in there, but the low mids range really makes you hear the timbre of the note, and it adds to the guitar notes. it ends up sounding like a really throaty growly kind of sound.

turning that track off, or replacing it with one played in the same octave makes it sound lame in comparison. it doesn´t give it that "SHIT THAT´S DEEP!" feeling.

so yeah, you don´t need to hear the lowest frequencies to hear the notes, and you can use it in a musical way without any problems.


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## Sang-Drax (Sep 13, 2009)

^ Really cool track, Morten! Let us know when this bass from hell of yours get ready!


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## MTech (Sep 13, 2009)

Sub Low stuff can sound huge, I really dig the stuff Jaquo III-X does.


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## knuckle_head (Sep 14, 2009)

Jauqo is awesome


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## MTech (Sep 14, 2009)

knuckle_head said:


> Jauqo is awesome



I'm really surprised he's not on your basses...does he have one too??? I wasn't sure if you did NAMM or not, if so I'm jacked I missed seeing you there, but I usually try and watch him tear it up when I can there.


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## knuckle_head (Sep 14, 2009)

He has his Adler subcontra, and he may at this point be tuning one or more of his Laklands similarly, but he doesn't have one of my basses so far as I know. 

We know each other and chat very rarely - usually at NAMM. I haven't attended the last few but will be at winter '10. I haven't heard him play in a while. I am looking forward to that - he really is quite good.


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## ixlramp (Sep 16, 2009)

It's a common misconception that the ear cannot hear below 20Hz.


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## MTech (Sep 20, 2009)

ixlramp said:


> It's a common misconception that the ear cannot hear below 20Hz.



Well seeing as studies show the _range_ of _human hearing_ is generally considered to be 20 Hz to 20 kHz, but it is far more sensitive to sounds between 1 kHz and 4 kHz....


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## damigu (Sep 20, 2009)

ixlramp said:


> It's a common misconception that the ear cannot hear below 20Hz.



around 20Hz is indeed the lower limit of human hearing. some people can hear a couple Hz lower, while others can't hear that low.

don't confuse FEELING the bass resonate with actually hearing it.


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## ixlramp (Sep 20, 2009)

Hmmm... yes damigu I could be wrong. I seem to remember reading that it was more like 13Hz...


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## maniac mikej (Sep 21, 2009)

Does anybody know what frequency a low F# on a bass would be? I'm looking to make a 6 string tuned F#, B, E, A, D, G and want to know the frequency range


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## damigu (Sep 21, 2009)

frequencies of equal-tempered notes from octave 0 to 8:

Frequencies of Musical Notes


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## maniac mikej (Sep 21, 2009)

<3 Now, are there any cabs out there that can handle that low?


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## Durero (Sep 21, 2009)

Bag End S21E-C


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## damigu (Sep 21, 2009)

maniac mikej said:


> <3 Now, are there any cabs out there that can handle that low?



the cab/speaker don't have to be able to handle the fundamental frequency in order for it to sound heavy *or* low.
for example, the typical male voice has a fundamental frequency around 85 Hz, but you could easily filter that out without affecting the sound of the person in question.

the bulk of a guitar's sound (and human voice, for that matter) are in the harmonics. the fundamental barely has any effect except that it is technically the base frequency.

in fact, most mixers will actually cut the ranges that the fundamental guitar frequencies are in, in order to give some room for the bass without the two having to compete.


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## maniac mikej (Sep 21, 2009)

so any decent bass amp setup would work, as long as the pickups have the balls to sense the F#?


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## knuckle_head (Sep 21, 2009)

maniac mikej said:


> <3 Now, are there any cabs out there that can handle that low?





Durero said:


> Bag End S21E-C





damigu said:


> the cab/speaker don't have to be able to handle the fundamental frequency in order for it to sound heavy *or* low.



Durero & damigu - truth.

In addition to the 21" Bag End Infra there is also the Velodyne DD series - servo driven, with ALOT more control than the Bag End stuff allows. Both are VERY spendy. 

With bass notes there is more than twice the sonic energy at the second harmonic (one octave up from the note's identifying frequency) than at the actual fundamental. If you are playing at 20 Hz E then you are very well served by a cabinet that does 40 Hz, F# is done justice by a cab that can handle 46 Hz or so, etc.

Be careful about advertised frequency response info from manufacturers - especially musical instrument cab folk. 40 Hz is VERY hard for ANY cab to reach and there are nearly none that can actually do it. Only way to know what a cab ACTUALLY does is to have a reputable sound reinforcement tech evaluate it.

FWIW, the only way to do low well with any kind of volume is with a pretty large cabinet.


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## Durero (Sep 21, 2009)

Thanks for that info Skip. Are there any other cab brands/models that you've had good experiences with?

I'm looking for a decent amplification system for my StickBass which I'm tuning to low E0. My little Hartke 2x10 is definitely not up to the task


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## MF_Kitten (Sep 22, 2009)

trust me when i say that the fundamental frequencies of super low notes aren´t the frequencies you need to sound good. you can´t really hear what notes are being played if you just focus on the fundamentals. it´s like wiht guitars. if you run a tubescreamer in front of your amp, the sound gets clearer and tighter. yet the tubescreamer filters out frequencies below like 700 hz. that means it basically sucks out most of the fundamentals that your guitar can reproduce.

math and technicalities never really represent what we experience when we try things out. to make a bass sound good tuned an octave below a guitar, the EQ of the bass has to blend well with the EQ of the guitar, simple as that.

most decent bass amps will sound good if you twiddle the EQ with care. the important part is the sound coming from the bass. good in, good out.

edit: a nice example of great bass tone for low notes would be Chimp Spanner: http://soundclick.com/share?songid=6700801 Paul has some of the best mixes i´ve ever heard, and he really makes the bass blend perfectly with the guitar all the way down to the lowest notes. the lowest note in this clip is f# i believe. i don´t think he tunes down below that.


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## SD83 (Sep 22, 2009)

E0? You guys are confusing me... wouldn't that be 2 octaves below a normal bass guitar?


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## knuckle_head (Sep 23, 2009)

SD83 said:


> E0? You guys are confusing me... wouldn't that be 2 octaves below a normal bass guitar?



Nope - just one.

Durero - take a hard look at PA cabs. The Carvin 1503 kinda thing. Best recommendation I can make is a DIY cab designed by a friend from Talkbass - it'd be a 15/6 that gives you a very efficient 40 Hz. you can drive it with as little as 200 watts or as much as 900. It's called the fEaRB, part of a series of speakers called fEarful; there's a VERY long three part thread with tons of details.


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## Jauqo III-X (Oct 14, 2009)

MTech said:


> Sub Low stuff can sound huge, I really dig the stuff Jaquo III-X does.




For the record(in case you didn't know) the bass in that clip is standard tuned EADG.





knuckle_head said:


> Jauqo is awesome




Thanks Skip.




MTech said:


> I'm really surprised he's not on your basses...does he have one too??? I wasn't sure if you did NAMM or not, if so I'm jacked I missed seeing you there, but I usually try and watch him tear it up when I can there.



I do not own one of Skips basses but I have had the chance to play a few. I personally thought they were kool but I'm not into basses with a super long scale(and that's not a knock on what Skip is doing at all. Just a personal preference).





knuckle_head said:


> He has his Adler subcontra, and he may at this point be tuning one or more of his Laklands similarly, but he doesn't have one of my basses so far as I know.




My fretless Adler subcontra bass is my main subcontra bass while my Laklands and any other none subcontra basses stay in standard tuning.


I've attached a pic of me with my fretless Adler subcontra bass.


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## MF_Kitten (Oct 14, 2009)

that´s a nice pic of the bass 

have you ever tried jamming with another bassist playing in the same tuning as you´re in, except the octave above? i can imagine that would sound huge and "filling". the funny thing is, that guy an octave above you would still be tuning down, technically 

i´m having a 40" scale bass made for drop E tuning. funny thing is that it´s got something similar to your Adler going on with the bodyshape, and i didn´t even remember yours at all when i placed the order. i just realized it looking at the picture now


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## Jauqo III-X (Oct 15, 2009)

MF_Kitten said:


> that´s a nice pic of the bass




Thank you if you're referring to me.



MF_Kitten said:


> have you ever tried jamming with another bassist playing in the same tuning as you´re in, except the octave above? i can imagine that would sound huge and "filling". the funny thing is, that guy an octave above you would still be tuning down, technically




Again,if you're talking to me.


I have used my bass while playing with a bass player utilizing a traditional bass guitar and it definitely has it's place.


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## MF_Kitten (Oct 16, 2009)

yep, referring to you in both


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