# Stupid Things You Used to Believe About Music/Guitars



## groverj3 (Dec 29, 2020)

Probably not an original idea for a thread but I'm bored.

We all have biases about music and instruments. Some of them, in hindsight, are pretty dumb.

For starters, and I attribute this to the era in which I started playing (early 00s), I thought Schecters were bad. In my defense, 90% of Schecters from that time period were covered in fake abalone and had tacky inlays. If you combine that with probably only ever playing one at a guitar center, complete with an early 00s guitar center setup (no setup out of the box at all) you'd think they were crap too.

Clearly, based on what they're making these days, and having played them with a good setup, they aren't crap.


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## KnightBrolaire (Dec 29, 2020)

I hated all trems for a long time. Mostly because one of the first guitars I owned had one, and it was a shitty licensed floyd which caused me nothing but problems as a young guitarist. 
I still hate most trems (especially jazzmaster and kahler trems) but I've grown to enjoy floyd loaded guitars . I own about 5 floyd loaded guitars now lol


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## bostjan (Dec 29, 2020)

First Schecter I played was an A-7 with a funky V- neck. I never touched another Schecter for maybe a decade after that, assuming they all had similar neck shapes.

If we go back to when I first started playing, there were a lot of things I had wrong. As soon as I learned chords, I thought every chord sounded better with a ninth added to it. Most of the songs I wrote with my first real band were either tons of add9 chords zigzagging around the fretboard in a nonsensical way or open chords that I moved up and down to get weird harmonic content in the laziest way. Looking back at one song or another, maybe I don't cringe too hard, but listening to 4-5 songs in a row is a huge cringe for me, since the formula didn't have much variation.

I think those early mistakes are easily excusable, though. What's far more cringey is stuff that I thought more recently- like thinking that I'd be a better guitarist if I practiced every possible scale or thinking that touring in my late 30's would bring me some profound satisfaction in my life.

EDIT: Trems - I got my first electric guitar when I was 12 years old and it had one of those "vintage" trems. I think I played with the whammy bar for maybe 30 seconds, then tossed it in the case compartment where it remains today. I've owned guitars with all sorts of trems, and frankly, only the FR and FR-inspired ones ever made me want to do any sort of trem stuff. As much as I enjoyed the Parker trems, I just didn't put them to any actual use outside of checking them out and screwing around when I should have been practicing. So I agree 100% that Floyds and Floyd copies (z.B. Ibanez LoPro, etc.) are really the only trems that beg the player to utilize them, and therefore, achieve their goal best.


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## spicevam (Dec 29, 2020)

That would be a long list. When I first started playing I was reading a lot about guitar and what seemed to be golden advice then turned out to be a pile of shit. The amount of misinformation in the guitar world is honestly petrifying. A good example is all the drama surrounding truss rods and people thinking that giving it a gentle bop will make your guitar explode like a frag grenade and create a black hole that will suck in everything in a 500 feet radius. The mollycoddling gets to the point where people are afraid of touching their instruments because they might just dematerialize. I've seen much more stupid things though but the one mantra that takes the cake for me is that you supposedly should always start on an acoustic guitar and then move on to an electric. That is just terrible advice and luckily the guitar community seemed to have moved on from that as of recently. A less extreme version of this idea but one I still disagree with and one that many folks still subscribe to is that if you wanna play ERGs you should work your way up from 6, to 7, eventually to 8, etc. This statement is completely wrong in my opinion because it sets 6 strings as a baseline for no apparent reason. Why don't we just start learning on djent sticks with only one string and then work our way up? In the 18th century in Russia seven strings were used pretty much exclusively, which means that we can safely deduce that most of Russian musicians from that era had little to no experience with six-string guitars. And somehow they still managed to write amazing pieces of music.

All I have to say is that if you wanna start your guitar journey with a multiscale fanfret 34"-26.5" EMG 11011x 12 string with mind-controlled tuners then do it. Don't restrain your creativity.


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## Demiurge (Dec 29, 2020)

^It's funny, that the fear of truss rods (and a lot of other basic guitar maintenance) exists alongside an enormous hype market for mods and aftermarket parts.

My own prior stupid: I used to believe that high-output pickups were essential for good distorted tone. In the pre-Youtube & easily-accessible pickup demo days, I would trawl online listings for pickups with the highest DC resistance reading (and that's another...). I never got a bad pickup- the Kent Armstrong Motherbucker was worth the 10 wires- but I never found myself wanting for more gain when I had lower-output pickup'ed guitars plugged-into the same gear.


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## Señor Voorhees (Dec 29, 2020)

I used to think there was some mystical magical reason that you needed 7 strings + to tune really low. Obviously scale lengths make things more practical, but there is literally no difference between a 25.5" scaled 6 string and 25.5" scaled 7 string. 

Also, my dumb kid self didn't understand floating trems, so I thought the first floyd equipped guitar was broken when I got it, changed to higher gauge strings, and tried tuning to the same pitch and my string action was WAY too high. lol


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## rokket2005 (Dec 29, 2020)

When I started playing I didn't like Fender or PRS cause obviously you can't play metal with a Fender and PRS guitars were for NuMetal guys and Santana. Now I have 8 PRS', 3 Fenders, and 3 G&Ls.


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## TedEH (Dec 29, 2020)

I used to associate strat shapes with starter guitars, because my first electric guitar was a strat copy. Even now, when I see a strat I still think "but a guitar can be so much more". It's sort of burned into my brain as the lowest-common-denominator guitar.


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## TheBolivianSniper (Dec 29, 2020)

I've never lost my floyd obsession but it's not nearly as boring as I thought it would be playing hardtails and I actually like TOMs now. I thought you only bent with one finger and gave up on learning bends since they were so hard. Now that I know how I do it I do it all the time. 

Honestly I beat the fuck out of my first guitar so bad that I'm not afraid of floyds or truss rods any more, I tried to use the headstock tuners while the nut was locked, fucked with the truss rod and action way too much, and tuned it down and back up without adjusting my floyd screws.


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## sirbuh (Dec 29, 2020)

groverj3 said:


> For starters, and I attribute this to the era in which I started playing (early 00s), I thought Schecters were bad. In my defense, 90% of Schecters from that time period were covered in fake abalone and had tacky inlays. If you combine that with probably only ever playing one at a guitar center, complete with an early 00s guitar center setup (no setup out of the box at all) you'd think they were crap too.
> 
> Clearly, based on what they're making these days, and having played them with a good setup, they aren't crap.



Made the same mistake and now back filling the interesting guitars I missed out on


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## bostjan (Dec 29, 2020)

I think a lot of this is pretty universal, though.

My first floating trem sent me into a panic the first time I tried to restring it. When I started playing, I thought single coils were for country music. And I had to learn how to adjust my truss rod, too. All of this was way before youtube, so, luckily, I learned this stuff from a grouchy older guy at a guitar repair shop, who had not only done all of this stuff a hundred million times, but had explained it all a million times, too.

I've heard tons of weird things from other beginners, too, mostly when I worked as a tech myself, years later. Some stuff I heard when I taught lessons. I had at least two totally different students who thought that your pick thickness had to match your string gauge (i.e., medium thickness for medium gauge, light for light, etc.).

The craziest job I did as a tech was this young lady who brought in an acoustic guitar with some super beefy strings (with a 0.026" plain steel third - ruined my cutters on that one). I asked her at least four times which tuning she used, and all she would say was "standard." I asked "E Standard?!" and mentioned at least three times how the strings were going to be incredibly tight at that tuning. But she just kept nodding and saying "standard" while willfully omitting the repetition of "E" and said she liked super high tension. I had her sign the paperwork, along with a waiver that so much tension on the neck was a bad idea, and off she went. It took me twenty minutes to get everything adjusted the first time, then several smaller adjustments every couple hours until halfway through the next day, when it seemed settled. When she came back, I insisted she try playing to make sure everything was to her liking, and she was like "Damn! You tuned this thing way up!" After about ten minutes of back-and-forth, we mutually came to the realization that she thought C Standard was the same thing as "Standard," and, though she knew where C was on the piano, she didn't know which note was called which. So, I took the guitar back, and set it back up for C standard with the same strings for no charge.


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## fps (Dec 29, 2020)

That you had to come up with something totally original for it to be of worth. It cost me years. Everything repeats, so much is duplicated, and that’s fine.


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## gunch (Dec 29, 2020)

Floyds are bad
You need a humbucker to sound heavy
Mahogany is the only tonewood worth a squirt


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Dec 29, 2020)

When I first started playing I used to think that baritone guitars naturally just sounded lower and that was how you got a really heavy sound. I was stuck on ESP F baritones because my favorite guitarist at the time used an ESP Viper. I assumed it must have been a baritone because the album sound was super chunky.

I also thought for a brief moment that a guitar's shape would alter the sound. I was convinced that Vs had more treble and made for a more lead type sound.

I used to tune my low E string the exact same pitch as my D string for 1 finger power chords because I thought it sounded better..and that tuning the low E down to where it should be didn't sound right.

I also used 60s and 70s on my low E (tuned that high) because I thought that's how you get a heavy sound.


I was stupid as fuck.


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## Celtic Frosted Flakes (Dec 29, 2020)

I used to think Floyds were cool.


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## GunpointMetal (Dec 29, 2020)

I used to get mad when friends would say my riffs sounded like a song they'd heard.
I used to think not being able to shred meant I would never write music I liked.
I used to think guitar solos were important.

I still intentionally avoid anything "vintage" or "retro".


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## dmlinger (Dec 29, 2020)

Anything with excessive amounts of abalone is cheap.


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## CM_X5 (Dec 29, 2020)

Worrying about wood affecting tone when I'm just gonna put it through a bunch of pedals and super high gain amp anyway.

In fact worrying about all the smallest details when I should be worrying about playing, buying into marketing wank feels bad man.


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## GunpointMetal (Dec 29, 2020)

dmlinger said:


> Anything with excessive amounts of abalone is cheap.


 Tacky, dated, and classless? Absolutely. Cheap? Probably, but not always.


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## gunshow86de (Dec 29, 2020)

1. Single coils sound thin/bad.
2. You need a super thin neck and flat radius to play fast.
3. Volume and tone knobs should always be on full (or removed, if possible). Now I know playing with the volume and tone level is critical for finding the "magic" with my single coil guitars. 
4. Modelers are just as good as real amps. "Feel" is a thing that only old guys whine about (This one might actually still be true, since I'm an old guy now )


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## TedEH (Dec 29, 2020)

GunpointMetal said:


> I used to get mad when friends would say my riffs sounded like a song they'd heard.


I used to get mad when people said my music sounded like something I didn't like or didn't intend. 

After a while I got used to the idea that people who aren't as.... enthusiastic? involved? knowledgeable? ...with music just don't have the vocabulary to interpret or comment on certain musical things, but it took a while for me to "get" that not everyone hears things the same way I do, and to not let that bug me.
When every acoustic bit "sounds Spanish" for some reason.
When any song longer than 3 minutes "sounds like it should be a movie soundtrack".
When the "devil voice" qualifies anything/everything as being "hardcore" or "screamo" or whatever other word.
When someone sees you own a non-strat and says "I bet you won't play _country_ on that thing, har har". I mean, no, I won't, but you could.

Someone once said to me that something stood out in one song - that they kept hearing what sounded like hitting a piece of a metal with a piece of wood. They were technically correct - they were talking about a snare.


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## Rosal76 (Dec 29, 2020)

When I first stated learning how to play guitar in the early 1990's, I was under the impression that neck-thru guitars were always better in everything. Construction, quality, sound, etc, etc, etc. Plus, at the time, many of my favorite guitar players all used neck-thru guitars. Kerry King, Jeff Hanneman, Dave Mustaine and Marty Friedman to name a few. My guitar heroes use them so they must be the best, right? Neck-thru guitars did cost more than bolt-ons in the 1990's so that probably helped me to believe that, "expensive is more better". But as the years went by, the bias wore off and I love bolt-on and neck-thru guitars equally. I do like the smoother look of neck-thru guitars but it isn't a deal breaker for me.

Also, my thinking in the early 1990's. B.C. Rich is only played by guys in death metal bands. Obituary guitarist, Allen West proved me wrong.  * Chuck Schuldiner (Death) and Richard Brunelle (Morbid angel) both used B.C. Rich. Allen West used Ibanez.


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## Necris (Dec 29, 2020)

I used to believe the change in tone which resulted from changing pickups was worth the expense. Trying new stuff is fun, but wow what a money pit.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Dec 29, 2020)

Cranked mids were good.

Slightly scooped mids are perfectly fine and sound even better in a mix to me than boosted mids.


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## TheBlackBard (Dec 29, 2020)

That Indonesian guitars are always shit. Don't get me wrong, there are quality issues with some of them, but some of the best guitars I've owned, in terms of feel have been Indonesian. Maybe it's just me, but I think they're actually getting better at QC.


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## VibTDog (Dec 29, 2020)

With hard work, persistence and dedication, your band will get signed.

NOPE. Its all in who you know


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## broj15 (Dec 29, 2020)

I used to believe the tone wood myth & that neck through/set neck guitars had more sustain. Learned that the first wasn't true just by playing/owning a bunch of different guitars & it was actually this forum that set me straight on the bolt on vs. neck through/set neck thing.


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## Necky379 (Dec 29, 2020)

Early wrongs:
Had no idea a band plays together. Having never used a metronome, never playing against a live drummer and just learning off tabs I assumed guitar players, drummers, bass players need to play at the “right” speed. Playing off the drummer who is there to keep time was a foreign concept. I never used to play to a cd or drummer, I would learn the song notes/chords and call it a day. The first time I played with a live drummer it sounded horrendous because I wasn’t even listening to him, I was just trying to play the song in my own little guitar world. I started wondering why drummers can’t play my songs. The answer to that is I was all over the place.

I thought basswood sounded bad. Basswood guitars don’t sound bad, some guitars sound bad and some guitars need different settings than others.

Mod=Improvement, wrong. In many cases Stock>Modified.

Pro’s amp settings will sound good with my rig.

*Bonus*
Early rights:
I still love 81’s and Invaders.

I saved up and bought a brand new 5150 in 9th grade, it’s still my #1 at 33.

At a young age I chose to take theory lessons instead of taking “learn to play Green Day and Blink 182 songs” lessons like the other students. I didn’t absorb everything but I know way more than the people I play with. They’re generally more talented players so I can bring something else to the table. It’s been very helpful.


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## Forkface (Dec 29, 2020)

i used to think the blues scale was boring and always sounded the same. oh boi was i wrong or was i wrong.

I used to think thinner necks meant faster playing, which meant better playing. I avoided thick necks for the longest time. I recently played an old gibson 335 with a chunky ass neck, and cursed myself all thru the walk back home. so much more comfortable than the skinny wood boards that shred guitars have.


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## ellengtrgrl (Dec 29, 2020)

rokket2005 said:


> When I started playing I didn't like Fender or PRS cause obviously you can't play metal with a Fender and PRS guitars were for NuMetal guys and Santana. Now I have 8 PRS', 3 Fenders, and 3 G&Ls.



Yup, I was like that about Teles - I thought they (as in the traditional single coil version) were only good for oldies or country music. Wrong!! They have tons of beef to them sound-wise, even for the single coil traditional versions - just back off the amp's treble and/or use the tone control on the guitar, and you're solid. All too often people forget that the first 'Zeppelin album was recorded with a Tele. Soundgarden also used them in the studio (and not just on the clean parts) for at least the "Down on The Upside" album, and possibly on the "Superunknown" album.

Fender Teles are much more versatile than you think. You can not only rock out hard on them, but more than a few jazz players like Ed Bickert, Bill Frisell, and Julian Lage have played them. Therefore, that's why I have a Tele. Mine is a Fender Britt Daniel Telecaster Thinline (on other words it's semi-hollow). It sounds killer, has a decently chunky neck, that I find oh so comfortable, and with its S1 switch, that allows you run both the bridge and neck pickup in series as a humbucker, can really kick out the humbucker rock tones, if I'm in the mood for them.


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## mastapimp (Dec 29, 2020)

Back in '95 when I got my 2nd guitar, I thought "okay, that's enough"
I now have 22 guitars.


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## BenjaminW (Dec 29, 2020)

I used to hate distortion or overdrive because I always associated it with electric guitar. I thought this way because when I first started, acoustics were better because The Beatles played them and that’s who I wanted to be. Ironically, distortion and overdrive are where it’s at for me.

I also thought Fenders and maple necks sucked because they weren’t what was on Gibsons or Les Pauls in particular.


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## Seabeast2000 (Dec 29, 2020)

Shredder/metal guitars are unfit for low gain tones.


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## TedEH (Dec 29, 2020)

Necris said:


> I used to believe the change in tone which resulted from changing pickups was worth the expense.


In fairness, "worth the expense" is relative. If you're happy with it, it's arguably worth it.


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## groverj3 (Dec 29, 2020)

Bonus: Stupid things I still believe

1. People who complain about shreddy guys not having "feeling" are idiots and I immediately stop listening to anything they say after that.
2. I still have a really hard time justifying an expensive bolt-on guitar. Even though I know, logically, that it's not like neck through construction is inherently "better."
3. The guitar world could stand for having some more formal instruction when it comes to technique, like most other instruments. I see a lot of crazy stuff technique-wise that holds people back, and a lot of great players either don't analyze how they play, or blatantly ignore what they actually do and say some other shit because it's what people commonly think. Not that there is _*ONE and ONLY ONE*_ way to play, but there are certainly wrong ways to.

Edit: Should've mentioned something about tonewood, but we're not even going there, haha.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Dec 30, 2020)

I used to think anything other than enjoying yourself mattered. It doesn't.


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## Grand Moff Tim (Dec 30, 2020)

I used to not know that intonation was a thing, so I adjusted the saddles on my first strat so they were all lined up flush with each other.


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## chipchappy (Dec 30, 2020)

used to think pickup/wiring changes were rocket science when i was a kid. They're really not


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## Seabeast2000 (Dec 30, 2020)

Grand Moff Tim said:


> I used to not know that intonation was a thing, so I adjusted the saddles on my first strat so they were all lined up flush with each other.



I once tightened all of the spokes on my bike wheels.


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## TedEH (Dec 30, 2020)

groverj3 said:


> Not that there is _*ONE and ONLY ONE*_ way to play, but there are certainly wrong ways to.


I had a mild disagreement with someone not super long ago about the idea that the "right" way to play is (IMO) whatever way works for you and doesn't actively harm you in the process. We had been talking about keyboards and apparently I was "doing it wrong".


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## gnoll (Dec 30, 2020)

I used to think it was a good idea to buy a 5150, a v30 cab and an sm57.


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## Fis:Destroyer (Dec 30, 2020)

A lot of what’s already been said already. 
I used to think a “lead guitar” was a different instrument from a “rhythm guitar”. I was VERY insistent at 15 that my first guitar be a lead and not a rhythm or an acoustic guitar, because Ace Frehely played lead guitar.


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## Metropolis (Dec 30, 2020)

gnoll said:


> I used to think it was a good idea to buy a 5150, a v30 cab and an sm57.



You can still get wide variety of sounds from a 5150, different "V30's" aren't equal in sound, and still don't sound the same in different cabs. Try something else with SM57 than usual fredman technique or a single mic placed between cap and cone. They really don't make everything sound the same because there is so many variables in a signal chain and end product, using this particular gear doesn't make it any easier either.


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## Edika (Dec 30, 2020)

One thing I believed was that you only need one guitar and nothing more. I had a friend that had 3 and I thought it was super douchey. Now I have 9. Several have come and gone in between lol.

Only neckthrough guitars had the best sustain and was worthy of high end guitars. Set necks then and bolt one were for cheap instruments. Plus Basswood sucked. Also to be higher end it had to have an ebony fretboard. So seeing an Ibanez Prestige or J.Custom go for serious coin I was really annoyed.

If you wanted a high end great guitar it had to be made in the USA.

A guitar had to be super versatile and be able to play all styles to be good and worthwhile. So aside from various switches for coil splitting it needed to have a Floyd or some type of term bridge to be able to have that option when needed. In that regard TOM bridges where the devil.


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## gnoll (Dec 30, 2020)

Metropolis said:


> You can still get wide variety of sounds from a 5150, different "V30's" aren't equal in sound, and still don't sound the same in different cabs. Try something else with SM57 than usual fredman technique or a single mic placed between cap and cone. They really don't make everything sound the same because there is so many variables in a signal chain and end product, using this particular gear doesn't make it any easier either.



Why would I fight with gear I hate when I could use other stuff?

I don't get it. There are other amps, speakers, and microphones. We don't all HAVE TO use these particular products.


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## Metropolis (Dec 30, 2020)

gnoll said:


> Why would I fight with gear I hate when I could use other stuff?
> 
> I don't get it. There are other amps, speakers, and microphones. We don't all HAVE TO use these particular products.



Of course you don't have to. For example in these I tend to go towards hot rodded Marshall sounds, Mesa Boogie Mark type of tones, or any other modern thing that isn't a 5150 variant. Though SM57 and Mesa cab combination stays at least with IR's I'm using.


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## groverj3 (Dec 30, 2020)

TedEH said:


> I had a mild disagreement with someone not super long ago about the idea that the "right" way to play is (IMO) whatever way works for you and doesn't actively harm you in the process. We had been talking about keyboards and apparently I was "doing it wrong".


Perhaps "wrong" isn't quite the word I'm looking for here. It's all relative.

Picking like Marty Friedman is never going to let you strictly alternate pick super fast and accurate runs. However, it's not a "wrong way to play." It works for his style, but that's not what he's going for. If you did that it would surely hold you back from playing 3 billion notes per second with strict alternate picking.


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## c7spheres (Dec 30, 2020)

groverj3 said:


> ........
> .......
> Picking like Marty Friedman is never going to let you strictly alternate pick super fast and accurate runs......



.. But Marty Freidman is super fast and accurate and can alternate pick. He's one of the best techincal guitarists of all time. Maybe you typed in Marty Friedman but meant someone else?


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## groverj3 (Dec 30, 2020)

c7spheres said:


> .. But Marty Freidman is super fast and accurate and can alternate pick. He's one of the best techincal guitarists of all time. Maybe you typed in Marty Friedman but meant someone else?


Not trying to have a forum disagreement over whether guitarist A or B can do what better than each other. Friedman's playing doesn't involve Petrucciesque alternate picked runs. His picking technique seems like it would preclude this. Most Friedman solos have a lot of legato mixed in. However, that's not his style and what he does do is unique and incredibly hard for anyone else to imitate or even approximate. This is strictly, IMHO. I could be full of shit and perhaps he could pull off that kind of stuff.

My point is more that certain technique is going to make your life more difficult, depending on what you want to do. Not that it's "wrong" per se. It might, though, give you an advantage or add uniqueness to your playing in some way of course.

But I've now derailed my own thread


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## High Plains Drifter (Dec 30, 2020)

That if I bought that amp, that effect pedal, and that guitar... I would sound just like "that dude in the video".


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## Ordacleaphobia (Dec 30, 2020)

So. *Prepare for cringe*. I got into drums at the same time I got into metal, and I got into guitar a couple years later. This was right around the time Periphery was gaining a ton of momentum and djent was all the rage. So, a lot of the music I was into at the time was played on a 7 string, and I had just gotten confident enough to ditch my beater Gio I was learning on and buy my first new guitar. Obviously, this meant I had to buy a 7. 

Why, you ask? Because _obviously_, a 7 is tuned different. You can't just play a song written on a 7 on a 6, because the tuning is scrambled, *duh*. I know your top and bottom string are obviously staying the same, but all of the strings in between are tuned differently to cover the in-between because there's more of them, so the notes have to be spread out differently; which is why 7s are so different and unique and cool 

God, looking back that actually causes me physical pain. 
You know what's sad too is that I'd been lurking here since around 2009. You'd have thought I'd have _accidentally _picked up how _*tuning*_ works by then.
I'm glad I did it though; learning on a 7 made things much less intimidating once I started learning and playing stuff on a 6 again.


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## mmr007 (Dec 30, 2020)

I used to believe that you get better at guitar by practicing 1 hour a day and shopping on Reverb 3 hours a day. I don't believe that anymore but habits do die hard.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Dec 30, 2020)

I was convinced that I needed a unique guitar so I could be synonymous with the shape..which was why I used to constantly write up guitar specs in a book I had. Getting a "signature " guitar was the goal of life


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## Thep (Dec 30, 2020)

I would pretend to like Joe Satriani because I thought all cultured guitarists, particularly Ibanez fanboys, had to. I even owned a JS1000 at one point. 

In actuality, I listened to less than 30 minutes of Satriani my entire life and I disliked every minute of it.


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## spudmunkey (Dec 30, 2020)

Demiurge said:


> ^It's funny, that the fear of truss rods (and a lot of other basic guitar maintenance) exists alongside an enormous hype market for mods and aftermarket parts.



With cars, you have enormous after-market suppliers and the 'tuner' scene...and at the same time you have people who only take their cars to the dealer for oil changes, and would never buy a car with after-market wheels because "the person who bought them is likely someone who abuses their car."


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Dec 31, 2020)

That playing your guitar "too low" was bad. I always felt more comfortable with a guitar slung super low but always felt it was associated with dumb guitarists.

Ah well, I drop my shit even lower now because it just feels comfortable.


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## XPT707FX (Dec 31, 2020)

1. The thinner the neck the better the guitar
2. A cheap guitar can never play well
3. You need to use a lot of pressure on the fretting hand


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## Rynphos (Dec 31, 2020)

Shredding had no feeling, so it was illegal.
Too much screaming meant the band was compensating for something, so it was illegal.
7 strings were disgusting. Illegal.
Old daddy rock was the shit.

Now I'm all over those. Then again, I enjoyed it back then, but my surroundings weren't exactly supportive of my tastes so I felt like I had to tame them.

EDIT: Blues were sacred and the only way to play with feeling. I'd fight you over it.


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## HungryGuitarStudent (Dec 31, 2020)

You don't need to know where the intervals are, just learn 3 notes per string.

Playing picking runs on the neck pickup is cheating.

Yeah, I was dumb. EDIT: Still am.


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## nightflameauto (Dec 31, 2020)

The truss rod fear just blows my mind. I've even had guitar shops get pissy with me when I wanted to trade in a guitar where the rod cover was off because, "that just says you're constantly cranking on the truss rod so it's probably broken." No, dumbass, I live in South Dakota and need to tweak it twice a year just like anybody else that lives in South Dakota should.

I will say I had no idea how to intonate a guitar when I started and it used to drive me nuts that my tuning would be so whacky going up and down the neck. I started on violin where intonation is all in the fingers and you had to be REALLY good at it at all times, so my ear was trained to hear notes correctly. Then I swapped strings on my first guitar and thought it must be broken it was so out of whack.

I used to think all guitars HAVE to have a floyd or floyd alike. Now I can't hardly stomach the damn things.

That better equipment would make me a better player. Now my number 1 and number 2 guitars are some of the cheapest on the market and I probably play better than I did when I owned custom shop instruments.

That amps without distortion are useless.

I could probably pull another twenty things out of my head if I thought about it.


----------



## bostjan (Dec 31, 2020)

Ordacleaphobia said:


> So. *Prepare for cringe*. I got into drums at the same time I got into metal, and I got into guitar a couple years later. This was right around the time Periphery was gaining a ton of momentum and djent was all the rage. So, a lot of the music I was into at the time was played on a 7 string, and I had just gotten confident enough to ditch my beater Gio I was learning on and buy my first new guitar. Obviously, this meant I had to buy a 7.
> 
> Why, you ask? Because _obviously_, a 7 is tuned different. You can't just play a song written on a 7 on a 6, because the tuning is scrambled, *duh*. I know your top and bottom string are obviously staying the same, but all of the strings in between are tuned differently to cover the in-between because there's more of them, so the notes have to be spread out differently; which is why 7s are so different and unique and cool
> 
> ...



I was a little bit of an "early adopter" to seven strings. I was fascinated before I even had any idea what the tuning was. It was just something magical about the number of strings being one more. I picked up a UV at the store that I couldn't afford and played it for hours - going back as often as I could to bang on that guitar. One day it sold, but they must have felt bad for me, because they stocked another UV a couple of weeks later. Then, when the RG7620 first came out, I already had one on order before the sales guy finished his sentence. I played the ever-loving crap out of that guitar. There wasn't a single song that didn't need at least one note on the extra string added into it.

Looking back, it makes no sense. I liked Korn and Steve Vai, but wasn't into playing either. I did learn the "chug-chug-chug chug-chug-chug" part of Dream Theater's "The Mirror," but was mostly just wanting to throw out some funky open chords with super low root or fifth stacked on bottom just for the novelty.

Shortly after buying the guitar, I joined a cover band that was gigging almost every week, and, as misguided as my logic was buying a seven string in the first place, it kept me sane. Playing "Brown Eyed Girl" or "Taking Care of Business" ten thousand times in a year was a little less boring when I could go completely insane in the third verse with ridiculously low chord voicings. No one cared that much - most of the audience was drunk by then and the other musicians in the band didn't seem to mind anything stupid to break up the monotony.

It wasn't until 6-7 years after that when I finally really started learning stuff that would have been totally impractical without a sevenstring (as opposed to a second six string tuned down), and was actually somewhat respectable to bother playing, but, by then, my potential audience for such things was very small...

TL;DR - It doesn't matter why you picked up the guitar you picked up. It does matter what you do with it.


----------



## Nonapod (Dec 31, 2020)

I used to think my old Crate GX65 1x12 combo amp (circa 1992) sounded heavy as fuck with my Metalzone in front of it. I remember slaving a Peavy 1X15 combo bass amp out of that Crate get absurd low end in my old college dorm room. I'm sure it must've sounded god awful. I also bought a used HM2 pedal back in '92 for $20 (and I still have it) that I thought didn't sound as good as the Metalzone.


----------



## groverj3 (Dec 31, 2020)

Nonapod said:


> I used to think my old Crate GX65 1x12 combo amp (circa 1992) sounded heavy as fuck with my Metalzone in front of it. I remember slaving a Peavy 1X15 combo bass amp out of that Crate get absurd low end in my old college dorm room. I'm sure it must've sounded god awful. I also bought a used HM2 pedal back in '92 for $20 (and I still have it) that I thought didn't sound as good as the Metalzone.


I owned a metalzone, circa 2004, and it was my main sound into the clean channel of a crate 2x12.

Funny thing is, I just recently plugged it into a loop return. IDGAF what anyone says. The metalzone functioning as a preamp into a loop return can actually sound pretty good.


----------



## Nonapod (Dec 31, 2020)

groverj3 said:


> I owned a metalzone, circa 2004, and it was my main sound into the clean channel of a crate 2x12.
> 
> Funny thing is, I just recently plugged it into a loop return. IDGAF what anyone says. The metalzone functioning as a preamp into a loop return can actually sound pretty good.



Oh, I agree. I recall watching an Ola Englund video showing that using the MetalZone in the effects loop (essentailly using it as a preamp of sorts) gets you a much nicer sound. Of course nobody thought to try that back in the day and it's only recently become more known.


----------



## groverj3 (Dec 31, 2020)

Nonapod said:


> Oh, I agree. I recall watching an Ola Englund video showing that using the MetalZone in the effects loop (essentailly using it as a preamp of sorts) gets you a much nicer sound. Of course nobody thought to try that back in the day and it's only recently become more known.


I'm calling it now. Some "boutique" amp builder is going to make an expensive head that copies the metalzone for its high gain channel.


----------



## gunch (Dec 31, 2020)

TheBlackBard said:


> That Indonesian guitars are always shit. Don't get me wrong, there are quality issues with some of them, but some of the best guitars I've owned, in terms of feel have been Indonesian. Maybe it's just me, but I think they're actually getting better at QC.



Thats the sound of Carl Kochack melting


----------



## TheBolivianSniper (Dec 31, 2020)

gunch said:


> Thats the sound of Carl Kochack melting


That's the sound of me melting, after my past few Indo guitars I said no more and will no longer buy anything not made in at least Korea. It's working well


----------



## KnightBrolaire (Dec 31, 2020)

groverj3 said:


> I'm calling it now. Some "boutique" amp builder is going to make an expensive head that copies the metalzone for its high gain channel.


Mesa already did it, it's called the contour channel of the F series lol


----------



## budda (Dec 31, 2020)

I used to think guitar tone was important, up until last summer.

Then i made my own EP.

No, bass tone is important - and really hard to actually do well  (especially when you're a hack bassist). Pretty sure you could make or break most "omg wow" guitar tones simply by adding a good or meh bass tone.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis (Dec 31, 2020)

budda said:


> I used to think guitar tone was important, up until last summer.
> 
> Then i made my own EP.
> 
> No, bass tone is important - and really hard to actually do well  (especially when you're a hack bassist). Pretty sure you could make or break most "omg wow" guitar tones simply by adding a good or meh bass tone.


BUT MAH $600 PICKUPS AND $1000 BOUTIQUE TOOB SKREEMUR!!???


----------



## gnoll (Jan 1, 2021)

But you could just turn down the bass in the mix 

Anyway these days most bass tones are horrible. They're scooped to shit while all the mids are in the guitars. Ugh. Can we plz let the bass actually sound like, you know, a bass, and not some edm synth (not dissing edm btw). And that way it could play interesting lines that could actually be heard, and not just fill in low end for the guitars.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 1, 2021)

gnoll said:


> But you could just turn down the bass in the mix


No....that's not how that works


----------



## Lemonbaby (Jan 1, 2021)

gunshow86de said:


> 2. You need a super thin neck and flat radius to play fast.
> 4. Modelers are just as good as real amps. "Feel" is a thing that only old guys whine about


+1 ... and adding low string steup to this line.

Disagree on 4. though. After owning one since the early days (August 2016) I still think the Helix kicks ass through my FRFR. And getting better with each update.


----------



## Merrekof (Jan 1, 2021)

- Changing to brand pickups would be a night and day difference.

- I thought the 0 or "zero" in tabs was the first fret for some reason, I thought my Yamaha starter guitar or the tablature sucked balls because it never sounded right. Took me a couple of months to figure out why everything I played was a half step up.

- When playing metal, the gain knob should always be on 10, or 11 in some cases.

- The more DC resistance a pickup has, the better it sounds.

- Only a full stack with a (minimum 120 watt) tube amp on top sounds good.


----------



## gnoll (Jan 1, 2021)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> No....that's not how that works



Aha ok, make sure you mention that to Metallica.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 1, 2021)

gnoll said:


> Aha ok, make sure you mention that to Metallica.


You mean the band that made such questionable choices as St. Anger's production?

Yeah....don't turn the bass down in the mix. You're gonna have a bad time


----------



## gnoll (Jan 1, 2021)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> You mean the band that made such questionable choices as St. Anger's production?
> 
> Yeah....don't turn the bass down in the mix. You're gonna have a bad time



Right. And what about albums like Ride the Lightning, Master of Puppets, or ...And Justice for All? You know, the classics?

Didn't we just have a thread were people were talking about how much they enjoyed AJFA?

But sure, bringing up St. Anger is always convenient.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 1, 2021)

gnoll said:


> Right. And what about albums like Ride the Lightning, Master of Puppets, or ...And Justice for All? You know, the classics?
> 
> Didn't we just have a thread were people were talking about how much they enjoyed AJFA?
> 
> But sure, bringing up St. Anger is always convenient.



They made one album with no bass...they didn't go back to it for a reason. You don't "turn the bass down" because it leaves a giant hole in the mix and the guitars don't sound as full. So Budda's right in saying that the bass makes for a lot of the guitar's tone. When it's a cohesive unit the overall sound is huge.


----------



## gnoll (Jan 1, 2021)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> They made one album with no bass...they didn't go back to it for a reason. You don't "turn the bass down" because it leaves a giant hole in the mix and the guitars don't sound as full. So Budda's right in saying that the bass makes for a lot of the guitar's tone. When it's a cohesive unit the overall sound is huge.



Dude listen to the early albums, you can't hear the bass there either.

There's different ways of doing things, you CAN have a mix with the bass guitar turned down and still have it sound good.

Modern guitar tones don't exactly need help to sound "huge" anyway. If anything that's a problem, because when guitars sound huge everything else has to keep up with it, which means we get stuff like ridiculous sounding drums with millions of stacked samples and where the top end is boosted to shit and the whole thing is compressed like crazy because that's the only way things are gonna be heard over these stupid "huge" sounding guitars.


----------



## budda (Jan 1, 2021)

gnoll said:


> And that way it could play interesting lines that could actually be heard, and not just fill in low end for the guitars.



Except the bass doesn't fill in the low end for the guitars, because guitarists think low end is their problem . The bass and guitar seem to be tuned the same so it's just the varied frequency difference in the same space. 

That's one thing I'll always be thankful for from my time in Sparrows - we were very particular about bass tone in studio and live, and it paid off. SVT's are nice, cranked SVT's are incredible .


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 1, 2021)

gnoll said:


> Dude listen to the early albums, you can't hear the bass there either.
> 
> There's different ways of doing things, you CAN have a mix with the bass guitar turned down and still have it sound good.
> 
> Modern guitar tones don't exactly need help to sound "huge" anyway. If anything that's a problem, because when guitars sound huge everything else has to keep up with it, which means we get stuff like ridiculous sounding drums with millions of stacked samples and where the top end is boosted to shit and the whole thing is compressed like crazy because that's the only way things are gonna be heard over these stupid "huge" sounding guitars.



First off Metallica had one of the greatest bassists of all time. You could definitely hear his playing. Aside from AJFA, you can definitely hear the bass in all the other albums. 

You don't use "stacked samples" to compete with loud guitars. The entire purpose of mixing is to level things out. When everything is in it's own frequency range and leveled properly there is no "keeping up". A huge sound is about giving things space in a mix, not volume. None of what you're saying makes sense. Do you even record at all?


----------



## gnoll (Jan 1, 2021)

budda said:


> Except the bass doesn't fill in the low end for the guitars, because guitarists think low end is their problem . The bass and guitar seem to be tuned the same so it's just the varied frequency difference in the same space.
> 
> That's one thing I'll always be thankful for from my time in Sparrows - we were very particular about bass tone in studio and live, and it paid off. SVT's are nice, cranked SVT's are incredible .



I guess it depends, lol. Seems most people just want mids in the guitars and uses the bass as some sort of supplement and not as its own instrument.

Nice to hear at least somebody mics an actual bass amp.



DrakkarTyrannis said:


> First off Metallica had one of the greatest bassists of all time. You could definitely hear his playing. Aside from AJFA, you can definitely hear the bass in all the other albums.
> 
> You don't use "stacked samples" to compete with loud guitars. The entire purpose of mixing is to level things out. When everything is in it's own frequency range and leveled properly there is no "keeping up". A huge sound is about giving things space in a mix, not volume. None of what you're saying makes sense. Do you even record at all?



Maybe you have better hearing than me, but I certainly can't hear much of the bass on the early records. Listening to the isolated bass tracks is pretty interesting, some stuff there I had no clue about.

And you totally use drum samples to compete with guitars. It makes the drums poke through and be heard.


----------



## brett8388 (Jan 1, 2021)

I used to believe that the more guitars someone has, the better player they must be. I think the inverse function applies here actually.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 1, 2021)

budda said:


> I used to think guitar tone was important, up until last summer.
> 
> Then i made my own EP.
> 
> No, bass tone is important - and really hard to actually do well  (especially when you're a hack bassist). Pretty sure you could make or break most "omg wow" guitar tones simply by adding a good or meh bass tone.



This is also what I mean about slightly scooped mids. When you have an even, maybe slightly scooped guitar sound, you pair it with a compressed, (slightly) distorted bass sound with tons of growl (and some clean DI ofc for the low end rumble)... Trust me, no better sound than that. 

It's how I pretty much record a lot of my stuff. When I first started recording, I had these kinda midrange heavy tones and a meh sounding bass, wondering why things sounded so... not huge. Then I started scooping the mids a LITTLE bit more, adding more to the treble frequencies and 200hz range. Then started isolating the dirty and clean bass signals, boost the bass signal ~900 - 1.6khz. Then it all started making sense.


----------



## Triple-J (Jan 1, 2021)

I don't have any regrets/dumb beliefs about guitar playing but if there's one regret I do have about music it's that I didn't listen to certain genres sooner.

For example I avoided black metal for years because of it's association with racist edgelord bellends plus the visual aspect of BM can be so ott it's like watching an episode of RuPauls Drag Race where all the costumes are black & covered in spikes, but when I finally found BM bands I liked I wished I'd discovered the genre sooner as there's a lot of modern BM bands taking on goth/post punk/folk elements and I've always been someone who prefers a sonically diverse album instead of 10 tracks that sound identical to each other.

The other example is country music but this is purely because I'm in the UK so the only country music that's visible to us over here is the cheesy nonsense of mainstream country so I completely avoided it until I heard Johnny Cash who made me want to dig deeper.


----------



## MrWulf (Jan 1, 2021)

God the parts about samples with drums sounds so fucking wrong as someone who's studying audio engineering. Samples are not used to compete with the guitars lmao. It is there to reinforce the drums sure but you are barking the wrong tree. It very much depends on the vibe and aesthetic, and at the discretion of the engineer.

Hell, the modern metal clicky kick was pretty much born in the early 90s at the birth of the death metal scene, popularized by Pantera, and it just goes from there. The modern clicky kick allow it to be heard (very attacky), good fundamentals/sub, but clear in the low mid where the bass should be, and the bass is a critical parts of a good guitar tone. And also it cleared up frequency range for vocal and guitar as well. So it all linked together as a cohesive whole. If mixing drums is just putting samples on top of samples to "make it heard" then URM must be going bankrupt soon.


----------



## gnoll (Jan 1, 2021)

MrWulf said:


> God the parts about samples with drums sounds so fucking wrong as someone who's studying audio engineering. Samples are not used to compete with the guitars lmao. It is there to reinforce the drums sure but you are barking the wrong tree. It very much depends on the vibe and aesthetic, and at the discretion of the engineer.
> 
> Hell, the modern metal clicky kick was pretty much born in the early 90s at the birth of the death metal scene, popularized by Pantera, and it just goes from there. The modern clicky kick allow it to be heard (very attacky), good fundamentals/sub, but clear in the low mid where the bass should be, and the bass is a critical parts of a good guitar tone. And also it cleared up frequency range for vocal and guitar as well. So it all linked together as a cohesive whole. If mixing drums is just putting samples on top of samples to "make it heard" then URM must be going bankrupt soon.



_"Grammy‑winning producer Andy Sneap suggests that, in hard rock and heavy metal, sample replacement "is the only way to get the clarity required in the drums to cut through the wall of guitar that is expected these days.” If you're interested, Andy's use of both sample replacement and augmentation, and the wall of guitars that he has become renowned for, can be heard on Testament's 2008 album, The Formation Of Damnation."
_
https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/replacing-reinforcing-recorded-drums

Anyway, whatever.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 1, 2021)

gnoll said:


> _"Grammy‑winning producer Andy Sneap suggests that, in hard rock and heavy metal, sample replacement "is the only way to get the clarity required in the drums to cut through the wall of guitar that is expected these days.” If you're interested, Andy's use of both sample replacement and augmentation, and the wall of guitars that he has become renowned for, can be heard on Testament's 2008 album, The Formation Of Damnation."
> _
> https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/replacing-reinforcing-recorded-drums
> 
> Anyway, whatever.



Simple question, do you record? I'm guessing by your posts that you don't. That's not what samples are for


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3 (Jan 1, 2021)

KnightBrolaire said:


> I hated all trems for a long time. Mostly because one of the first guitars I owned had one, and it was a shitty licensed floyd which caused me nothing but problems as a young guitarist.
> I still hate most trems (especially jazzmaster and kahler trems) but I've grown to enjoy floyd loaded guitars . I own about 5 floyd loaded guitars now lol



Trems are evil. I can't tell you how many times I have tried to love them but always hate them.

I love the feel of them but most of the time just block them.


----------



## gnoll (Jan 1, 2021)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Simple question, do you record? I'm guessing by your posts that you don't. That's not what samples are for



And if I don't? It's an internet forum, I could be anyone, which is why I quoted that Sneap interview to reinforce my point.

Disagree with me all you want, that's fine.


----------



## Demiurge (Jan 1, 2021)

gnoll said:


> _"Grammy‑winning producer Andy Sneap suggests that, in hard rock and heavy metal, sample replacement "is the only way to get the clarity required in the drums to cut through the wall of guitar that is expected these days.” If you're interested, Andy's use of both sample replacement and augmentation, and the wall of guitars that he has become renowned for, can be heard on Testament's 2008 album, The Formation Of Damnation."
> _
> https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/replacing-reinforcing-recorded-drums
> 
> Anyway, whatever.



I suppose one could argue that this is really taking in one's own wash. Making the guitar the absolute front-and-center featured instrument that requires tricks & compromises to shoehorn-in the other instruments might be unsound to begin with.

The challenge is not making the guitar the center of the universe. Can't say I've remedied this for myself because I find that the hardest thing to play or write as a guitarist is still a rest.


----------



## gnoll (Jan 1, 2021)

Demiurge said:


> I suppose one could argue that this is really taking in one's own wash. Making the guitar the absolute front-and-center featured instrument that requires tricks & compromises to shoehorn-in the other instruments might be unsound to begin with.
> 
> The challenge is not making the guitar the center of the universe. Can't say I've remedied this for myself because I find that the hardest thing to play or write as a guitarist is still a rest.



Right, exactly, something like that was kinda my point to start with I guess. These days it seems that everything needs to be as big sounding as possible and then of course it can be hard to fit other stuff in, leading to stuff like more sample enhancement and clicky kicks.

But then I also think that as people have got used to that kind of stuff it's also become the preferred overall sound. I imagine some people don't even know what drums sound like irl, and they probably wouldn't like it if that's what they heard on a record.


----------



## gunshow86de (Jan 1, 2021)

This is more of a stupid habit than something I used to believe, but I just noticed it when I was playing this morning I thought it was pretty funny.

I _always _hold my pick with the logo/text under my thumb (never towards my index finger). Even the picks where the lettering isn't raised or textured. Anybody else do this?


----------



## c7spheres (Jan 1, 2021)

gunshow86de said:


> This is more of a stupid habit than something I used to believe, but I just noticed it when I was playing this morning I thought it was pretty funny.
> 
> I _always _hold my pick with the logo/text under my thumb (never towards my index finger). Even the picks where the lettering isn't raised or textured. Anybody else do this?



I do this. It totally sounds and feels different. I don't care what anyone says, it's true. Even with a new pick. Logo up is normal, logo down is extra crispy.


----------



## budda (Jan 1, 2021)

gnoll said:


> And if I don't? It's an internet forum, I could be anyone, which is why I quoted that Sneap interview to reinforce my point.
> 
> Disagree with me all you want, that's fine.



Im guessing it's the difference between experience and therefore deeper understanding of a subject vs. parroting information from other sources.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 1, 2021)

gnoll said:


> And if I don't? It's an internet forum, I could be anyone, which is why I quoted that Sneap interview to reinforce my point.
> 
> Disagree with me all you want, that's fine.



Because you keep saying things that show you have no actual knowledge of how mixes work...and when people who actually do are telling you that what you're saying makes no sense, you are hellbent on trying to show how your theory (which is untested and devoid of any first hand understanding or experience) is correct.

Samples and mixing isn't about making everything louder. You don't spend your time recording drums just to manually build an entire fake kit. Big sounding mixes or guitars aren't about volume. Drum samples have been used for decades and more often than not it's a sample of a real drum. The idea of "people wouldn't know what a real drum kit sounds like " makes no sense. Hell you yourself wouldn't even know because you have no experience in the topic you're talking about


----------



## gnoll (Jan 1, 2021)

budda said:


> Im guessing it's the difference between experience and therefore deeper understanding of a subject vs. parroting information from other sources.





DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Because you keep saying things that show you have no actual knowledge of how mixes work...and when people who actually do are telling you that what you're saying makes no sense, you are hellbent on trying to show how your theory (which is untested and devoid of any first hand understanding or experience) is correct.
> 
> Samples and mixing isn't about making everything louder. You don't spend your time recording drums just to manually build an entire fake kit. Big sounding mixes or guitars aren't about volume. Drum samples have been used for decades and more often than not it's a sample of a real drum. The idea of "people wouldn't know what a real drum kit sounds like " makes no sense. Hell you yourself wouldn't even know because you have no experience in the topic you're talking about



Don't like what I post? Tough shit, don't fucking read it then.


----------



## MrWulf (Jan 1, 2021)

gnoll said:


> _"Grammy‑winning producer Andy Sneap suggests that, in hard rock and heavy metal, sample replacement "is the only way to get the clarity required in the drums to cut through the wall of guitar that is expected these days.” If you're interested, Andy's use of both sample replacement and augmentation, and the wall of guitars that he has become renowned for, can be heard on Testament's 2008 album, The Formation Of Damnation."
> _
> https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/replacing-reinforcing-recorded-drums
> 
> Anyway, whatever.



I dont think appeal to authority is the move here but ok. Would it blow your mind that sample replacement is even pretty usual in metal where there isnt a wall of guitars? Its about consistency in sounds, dude. 



gnoll said:


> Don't like what I post? Tough shit, don't fucking read it then.



Tough shit, dont say stupid fucking opinion then.


----------



## gunshow86de (Jan 1, 2021)

Gentlemen, gentlemen! Let us not allow anger to rule the day.


----------



## gnoll (Jan 1, 2021)

MrWulf said:


> Tough shit, dont say stupid fucking opinion then.



Lol what? I'll post my fucking opinion if I want. If you think it's stupid I don't give a fuck.


----------



## MrWulf (Jan 1, 2021)

Now i know what it is like to speak to covid-19 deniers. Thanks!


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 1, 2021)

gunshow86de said:


> Gentlemen, gentlemen! Let us not allow anger to rule the day.




I'M MADLY IN ANGER WITH YOU


----------



## TheBolivianSniper (Jan 1, 2021)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> I'M MADLY IN ANGER WITH YOU


Are we the peopuuuuuuuuuuul

AH


----------



## nickgray (Jan 1, 2021)

gnoll said:


> I imagine some people don't even know what drums sound like irl



From a certain perspective, amplified music (rock, metal, etc.) doesn't even "exist" acoustically in the same sense that classical music (not the modern weird stuff that includes helicopters) does or any other unamplified music. The standard way of distributing and hearing music isn't via sheet music that is performed live (though even for classical music this is no longer relevant), or through a live, unamplified performance, but via recorded albums. And even in case of live music (or in case the album is a live studio recording), there's still production and mixing involved, and live music is literally dangerous to your hearing, so nowadays if you have any sense, you'll wear some kind of hearing protection to a show.

In a nutshell, my point is, there's a whole lot more of wiggle room for interpreting sounds when it comes to amplified music and recordings because there are so many extra variables involved (mics and mic placement alone are enormously impactful, for instance).


----------



## gnoll (Jan 1, 2021)

nickgray said:


> From a certain perspective, amplified music (rock, metal, etc.) doesn't even "exist" acoustically in the same sense that classical music (not the modern weird stuff that includes helicopters) does or any other unamplified music. The standard way of distributing and hearing music isn't via sheet music that is performed live (though even for classical music this is no longer relevant), or through a live, unamplified performance, but via recorded albums. And even in case of live music (or in case the album is a live studio recording), there's still production and mixing involved, and live music is literally dangerous to your hearing, so nowadays if you have any sense, you'll wear some kind of hearing protection to a show.
> 
> In a nutshell, my point is, there's a whole lot more of wiggle room for interpreting sounds when it comes to amplified music and recordings because there are so many extra variables involved (mics and mic placement alone are enormously impactful, for instance).



Sure, I think that's a fair point, but I still think processing has gone a bit overboard. Not that I think it's wrong per se, but I like hearing a bit more natural sounding instruments on recordings.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 1, 2021)

TheBolivianSniper said:


> Are we the peopuuuuuuuuuuul
> 
> AH


Now I'm gonna go watch the St. Anger rehearsal video. I love that video.


----------



## nickgray (Jan 1, 2021)

gnoll said:


> but I still think processing has gone a bit overboard



Oh, I definitely agree. I think my main beef is with excessive limiting that doesn't just destroy the dynamic range, but they crank it so high there's very audible distortion. At least it's not as bad nowadays as in 2000s, and with streaming services 0dbfs target like with the CD is irrelevant, so there's also a practical reason to avoid this shit. I'm also pretty sure that the awareness of sound quality is higher now, and the availability of affordable speakers/headphones is higher as well.

Though then there's the whole "wall of sound" style of mixing where everything needs to be as much in your face as humanly possible, which is a slightly different issue. I realize that for some albums/genres it works, but listening to the original masters of 80s and early 90s albums, like Iron Maiden or Megadeth (or whatever other band you like), and then comparing them to anything post-2000 these same bands put out... good god, the early mixes live and breathe. Clarity, instrument separation, actual dynamics from the drum kit (just look at the peaks - every time a snare hits in these old school mixes, you actually see, and of course hear the transient), and completely non-tiring sound. Whereas modern records are squashed to resemble white noise, and the more extremely examples can be about as comfortable to listen to. The fact that a lot of metal productions are mediocre at best (like harsh guitars in the 4k region or obnoxious cymbals) doesn't help either. All that pro gear with crazy good specs, including SNR, but the actual master has the dynamic range of a fucking wax cylinder so that people with $10 earbuds could destroy their hearing considerably faster, or whatever the logic is for this nonsense. Anyways, I'm just ranting.


----------



## budda (Jan 1, 2021)

gnoll said:


> Don't like what I post? Tough shit, don't fucking read it then.


----------



## budda (Jan 1, 2021)

gnoll said:


> Sure, I think that's a fair point, but I still think processing has gone a bit overboard. Not that I think it's wrong per se, but I like hearing a bit more natural sounding instruments on recordings.



Can you post some examples?


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 1, 2021)

budda said:


> Can you post some examples?


Gurl don't do it...don't go there. You KNOW it's gon be some fuckery. Be like Lot from the bible. Just keep your eyes forward and keep moving. Don't look back cause there ain't NOTHING but a real salty situation.


----------



## groverj3 (Jan 1, 2021)

To help my own thread get back on track (and yes, I know I also derailed it myself a few pages back).

Here's one. When I started out, I thought tabs for whatever song were correct even if they seemed insane. Because there were tabs out there for just about anything by 2003ish it seemed to me that they must be like sheet music (which is, of course, never wrong either, haha).

I know better now, and have realized that not only are most tabs wrong and require rearranging for ergonomics, but if you figure out a different way to play a riff than the original artist... whatever, play it however you want.


----------



## thebeesknees22 (Jan 1, 2021)

whoa, this thread. 

https://media.giphy.com/media/jUwpNzg9IcyrK/giphy.gif

lol 

/me slowly backs away


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 1, 2021)

When I first started I had a Fender Frontman 25 watt combo amp. I thought cranking my bass, gain and mids to 10 was nailing the Deadsy sound.

There's so much wrong with that sentence. Dear god.


----------



## akinari (Jan 1, 2021)




----------



## gnoll (Jan 1, 2021)

budda said:


> Can you post some examples?



Yeah, no.

What are you even looking for here?


----------



## TedEH (Jan 1, 2021)

Are we looking for examples of over-produced music....? Way-too-loud mastering?

At the risk of beating some dead horses, or poking a sleeping whatever etc etc expressions- 

Every time a recent-ish Lamb of God tune comes up while listening to a mix of stuff, I have to turn it down. It's just painfully loud to my ears, and it doesn't sound good. I'm not usually one of those "loud mastering sounds bad" kinda people, but LoG takes it to another level.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 1, 2021)

TedEH said:


> Are we looking for examples of over-produced music....? Way-too-loud mastering?
> 
> At the risk of beating some dead horses, or poking a sleeping whatever etc etc expressions-
> 
> Every time a recent-ish Lamb of God tune comes up while listening to a mix of stuff, I have to turn it down. It's just painfully loud to my ears, and it doesn't sound good. I'm not usually one of those "loud mastering sounds bad" kinda people, but LoG takes it to another level.



That's also because LoG sucks in general. I find they sound great when silent.


----------



## profwoot (Jan 1, 2021)

I guess I could provide an example for discussion. Listen to the opening riff of "Ephemeral" by Afterglow. 


I actually kinda dig the song and don't mind the production either. The tails are chopped from just about every note for an intentionally synthetic sound. Whether you dig it is completely subjective but I imagine a lot of people won't. This is perhaps an extreme example, I suppose.


----------



## MrWulf (Jan 1, 2021)

In the age of streaming the loudness war is kinda irrelevant considering thay every streaming service has their own LUFS standard so what end up being is that each engineer/band can just aim for a certain dynamic/loudness and be done with it. Personally? I always aims for around DR of 7 and LUFS around -10 db. It is the best balance between having a big, open sounds that is competitive, loud. 

If you want a more prominent example, take a look at Fleshgod Apocalypse's 2nd album (arguably one of their worse album when it comes to mixing, with everything being limited and squashed quite hard) vs their later output (Veleno) where it has significantly more dynamic.


----------



## TedEH (Jan 1, 2021)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> That's also because LoG sucks in general.


Funny, I'll give you that. But they've got enough of a fanbase that like them. I think they have a lot of good material. And some albums are decently produced. But they went from under-produced to well-produced to VERY-produced and each album seems to get louder.


----------



## TedEH (Jan 1, 2021)

MrWulf said:


> In the age of streaming the loudness war is kinda irrelevant considering thay every streaming service has their own LUFS standard


That's assuming that anyone is following that standard. I find I have to pretty regularly play with volume controls while using Spotify 'cause it really isn't consistent. Especially if you're putting older material right next to new stuff.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 1, 2021)

TedEH said:


> Funny, I'll give you that. But they've got enough of a fanbase that like them. I think they have a lot of good material. And some albums are decently produced. But they went from under-produced to well-produced to VERY-produced and each album seems to get louder.



To be fair I've never been a fan. I don't hate them but they don't do it for me. I HATED their guitar tone for a long time before they got better production but even now I still don't like it. It just doesn't make me angry anymore


----------



## MrWulf (Jan 1, 2021)

TedEH said:


> That's assuming that anyone is following that standard. I find I have to pretty regularly play with volume controls while using Spotify 'cause it really isn't consistent. Especially if you're putting older material right next to new stuff.



For the most part Spotify or else will just turn the LUFS down to standard so the normal operating procedure is "just get as loud as you want" essemtially. But yeah it is not the most consistent but trying to master 10 different version for 10 different services is a pointless and time consuming endeavors


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 1, 2021)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> To be fair I've never been a fan. I don't hate them but they don't do it for me. I HATED their guitar tone for a long time before they got better production but even now I still don't like it. It just doesn't make me angry anymore



HONESTLY I never understood the love for their tone either. When you use a Mesa Mark, you're supposed to SCOOP the 750hz, slider, not BOOST it.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 1, 2021)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> HONESTLY I never understood the love for their tone either. When you use a Mesa Mark, you're supposed to SCOOP the 750hz, slider, not BOOST it.


Super thin, bassless, way too much mid going on...it's horrible.

Them and Slipknot. I'll never understand why people love their tones so much


----------



## gunch (Jan 1, 2021)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Super thin, bassless, way too much mid going on...it's horrible.
> 
> Them and Slipknot. I'll never understand why people love their tones so much



As the Palaces Burn rules, S/T and Iowa rule and I usually find most radio metal abhorrent


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 1, 2021)

gunch said:


> As the Palaces Burn rules, S/T and Iowa rule and I usually find most radio metal abhorrent


Nah..none of that.


----------



## MFB (Jan 1, 2021)

Lamb of God is like Metallica, listen to the first four and that's all you need.

Everything up to and including Sacrament is fucking great, I just wish they didnt continue to write the same song for the last four albums (Sturm und Drang does stand out for me compared to the rest but I still overlook it).


----------



## TedEH (Jan 1, 2021)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> When you use a Mesa Mark, you're supposed to SCOOP the 750hz, slider, not BOOST it.


I'm very much biased (is that an amp pun?), but I find most Mark players scoop it waaaaaaay too far. The only time that slider should drop past that last white line is when you're in "lol I sound like old Metallica" mode.

It's sort of appropriate for a "stupid things guitarists believe" thread - I was definitely one of those kids who did the whole treble+bass on full and mids off thing. Then I became a bassist for a band. Then I also became a guitarist for another band. Quickly learned that mids are your friend, and bass is the bassist's job.


----------



## XPT707FX (Jan 2, 2021)

Another one I used to believe in: as wattage drops volume also drops in a linear fashion


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 2, 2021)

XPT707FX said:


> Another one I used to believe in: as wattage drops volume also drops in a linear fashion



Which some folks clearly believe...hence people always talking about they need mini watt amps for low volume playing. *Looks over to the gear talk section of the forum*


----------



## MrWulf (Jan 2, 2021)

Dialing a tone can be quite troublesome anyway. It depends on your whole signal chain. I myself always have to scoop some mids because my pickups are very mid-flavored (Nazgul and BW bridge 7). Otherwise the guitar tone can be pretty congested. 

To contribute to the thread, one thing i used to believe is that it is not hard to make an album or EP. Now that i'm making two by myself, it dawned to me how hard and time consuming it is. Now wonder why bands take 2 years touring/recording cycle.


----------



## oldbulllee (Jan 2, 2021)

learning how to play on a piece of shit instrument will automaticaly make you a good player on a decent instrument.
acoustic guitar is where you should always start.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 2, 2021)

TedEH said:


> I'm very much biased (is that an amp pun?), but I find most Mark players scoop it waaaaaaay too far. The only time that slider should drop past that last white line is when you're in "lol I sound like old Metallica" mode.



Still gotta scoop those mids even slightly IMO. With the 750hz flat, rhythm tones are so weak and nasally. Even when I ran my Torpedo live with rather scooped sounding IRs you still had to play with the 5 band.


----------



## budda (Jan 2, 2021)

gnoll said:


> Yeah, no.
> 
> What are you even looking for here?





You said you like more natural sounding guitar sounds. I asked for examples. You declined.


----------



## gnoll (Jan 2, 2021)

budda said:


> You said you like more natural sounding guitar sounds. I asked for examples. You declined.



I'm not dying to post more in this thread when I'm mostly hearing how wrong I am and how useless my opinion is.

But if you're genuinely interested:



I like that because it sounds pretty raw and natural, while still feeling heavy. The drums sound way more like real drums to me compared to most metal that comes out these days, and generally it all feels like an actual band playing music. I love the feeling and intensity of it, and I wish there was more of that vibe in modern metal.


----------



## groverj3 (Jan 2, 2021)

Damn, guys. And here I thought this was an innocent, and amusing topic for a thread. Never underestimate the internet.


----------



## MrWulf (Jan 2, 2021)

You do have to put in the sound in the context of the time and technology available in those time. Engineers back then would love to have modern technology in order to deal with the supremely ugly nature of sounds. Most of the sounds back then sounds pretty naked because you cant precisely deal with sounds the same way that engineers today can. At the same time it is also very time consuming and a money drain (since you can only record in a proper studio, not like now where you can record in your own home and send stems to your mixer who works ITB) But a lot of ppl grow up with that sounds so for a lot of them this is the be all end all. It really isnt. Advancement in technology does allowed bands like Meshuggah, Fleshgod Apocalypse to live because really, have fun mixing either of them by hand. 

Personally? Do whatever you want to achieve the sounds you want within your means. Sample replacement? Go for it. Record to tape and mix it by hand on an SSL deck? Feels free to do so. There's no "right" sound and there's no "wrong" sound either. Only sounds that you like and you dont. Disparage any eras because they are different is nothing but gatekeeping because the world has to revolves around you and your taste.


----------



## gnoll (Jan 2, 2021)

MrWulf said:


> You do have to put in the sound in the context of the time and technology available in those time. Engineers back then would love to have modern technology in order to deal with the supremely ugly nature of sounds. Most of the sounds back then sounds pretty naked because you cant precisely deal with sounds the same way that engineers today can. At the same time it is also very time consuming and a money drain (since you can only record in a proper studio, not like now where you can record in your own home and send stems to your mixer who works ITB) But a lot of ppl grow up with that sounds so for a lot of them this is the be all end all. It really isnt. Advancement in technology does allowed bands like Meshuggah, Fleshgod Apocalypse to live because really, have fun mixing either of them by hand.



Sure, there's a lot of things you can do now that you couldn't back then, and that's great. I'm all for diversity, innovation and new ways of doing things. But I think that at the same time, technology can be relied on too much. Just because it can be done doesn't mean that it has to every time. I think overall that metal is overproduced and too similarly produced these days. In some cases it might be warranted, but not always. Just my opinion...



MrWulf said:


> Personally? Do whatever you want to achieve the sounds you want within your means. Sample replacement? Go for it. Record to tape and mix it by hand on an SSL deck? Feels free to do so. There's no "right" sound and there's no "wrong" sound either. Only sounds that you like and you dont. Disparage any eras because they are different is nothing but gatekeeping because the world has to revolves around you and your taste.



And I agree. I'm not against sample replacement at all. Not sure if the gatekeeping comment is aimed at me but I just want to hear more diversity, not less...


----------



## Science_Penguin (Jan 2, 2021)

Probably the biggest one I used to buy into was the bullshit notion that your talent (and therefore worth) as a guitarist was directly proportional to how difficult your music was to play.

Is your song in a drop or open tuning? That doesn't require nearly as many fingers to play power chords as standard tuining! Clearly you suck!

Does your solo have a lot of hammer-ons? Why not alternate picking? Tapping? Why not sweeping? Learn to play pleb!


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 2, 2021)

groverj3 said:


> Damn, guys. And here I thought this was an innocent, and amusing topic for a thread. Never underestimate the internet.


----------



## gnoll (Jan 2, 2021)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


>



So you managed to trigger somebody on the internet. Want a medal?


----------



## akinari (Jan 2, 2021)

Some of y'all need to take a long break from... something.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 2, 2021)

.....ANYWAYS

I used to also think that having the most high gain pickups I could find was the best thing. Then I tried the X2N....good lord did I learn I was wrong.


----------



## MrBouleDeBowling (Jan 2, 2021)

I used to think the Dean Razorback V I had was the greatest and the most badass guitar of all time. I didn't care if the neck was unconfortable for me, the cheap licensed Floyd was an anal fissure to maintain, the pain job had the absolute worst QC I still have ever seen and the case was so big it could barely fit in the back seat of my car. I was so happy that I bought it. "MAN it looks SO BADASS ON STAGE!1" 

I was 17

Kinda miss it sometimes tho. Beside all that I said, the guitar sounded great.


----------



## TheBolivianSniper (Jan 2, 2021)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> .....ANYWAYS
> 
> I used to also think that having the most high gain pickups I could find was the best thing. Then I tried the X2N....good lord did I learn I was wrong.



What don't you like about it? It's terrible in anything below D but it's so thick and chunky in E or D. Great for hair metal or stuff that doesn't need a tight as hell low end.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 2, 2021)

TheBolivianSniper said:


> What don't you like about it? It's terrible in anything below D but it's so thick and chunky in E or D. Great for hair metal or stuff that doesn't need a tight as hell low end.


It was a super gainy, shitty mess. I had that pickup installed for all of two days and it only lasted that long because I had to wait for the next day to take the guitar back and have it taken out.


----------



## BlackMastodon (Jan 2, 2021)

Probably been said earlier in he thread so I apologize for being to lazy to read through it all now, but here's my silly beliefs:

There's money to be made in the music industry. I remember my dad and brother asking why I buy so many CDs when I was in my early 20s and I had to explain how the obscure-ass metal bands I listen to don't play stadiums and own private jets to tour around.

I needed a 7 string to tune lower. My first guitar teacher convinced me to get one as my first electric for the music I wanted to play. It wasn't until being part of this forum for a year or 2 that I bothered to learn about scale lengths and string gauges (shout out to Max for making the concept easy to understand).


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 2, 2021)

BlackMastodon said:


> There's money to be made in the music industry.



Oh there's money to be made. All depends on what you're doing


----------



## c7spheres (Jan 3, 2021)

gnoll said:


> I'm not dying to post more in this thread when I'm mostly hearing how wrong I am and how useless my opinion is.
> 
> But if you're genuinely interested:
> 
> ...




- Just had to say that first one has a lot of similarities/vibe to Maiden's Powerslave song. 
- Here's a local band I use to be in same building with down the hall. Is this the kinda raw you're talknig about or is this to much raw? Thought you might dig them. They're from Phoenix.


----------



## BornToLooze (Jan 3, 2021)

This was my view on music growing up


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 3, 2021)

BornToLooze said:


> This was my view on music growing up



It was both a shame and hilarious when he got his ass handed to him over trying to take on Dolly Parton while rambling racist nonsense. Good Ol' Unknown


----------



## gnoll (Jan 3, 2021)

c7spheres said:


> - Just had to say that first one has a lot of similarities/vibe to Maiden's Powerslave song.
> - Here's a local band I use to be in same building with down the hall. Is this the kinda raw you're talknig about or is this to much raw? Thought you might dig them. They're from Phoenix.




Yeah good stuff!


----------



## TedEH (Jan 3, 2021)

BlackMastodon said:


> There's money to be made in the music industry.





DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Oh there's money to be made. All depends on what you're doing


Really depends on what you mean by that though, doesn't it? When a non-musician says to a musician that they just need to "make it", they don't mean making a living by stacking up a bunch of diverse musical side-gigs - doing lessons, youtube channels, session work for people, on top of the normal merch and shows, etc all at the same time - they just think anyone can live the rock star lifestyle and play stadiums and never worry about money, just by trying hard enough and believing in yourself.

I keep having to listen to "why don't you just switch to a 'good' genre, then you could make that your job!" as if that's how anything works. Or people who are convinced that the only reason the bands I'm in aren't self-sustaining careers is that we're just not doing it right or not trying hard enough. Some people are convinced that if I was to put out one or two pop or country albums, I could just retire and do what I want from then forward.


----------



## bostjan (Jan 3, 2021)

TedEH said:


> Really depends on what you mean by that though, doesn't it? When a non-musician says to a musician that they just need to "make it", they don't mean making a living by stacking up a bunch of diverse musical side-gigs - doing lessons, youtube channels, session work for people, on top of the normal merch and shows, etc all at the same time - they just think anyone can live the rock star lifestyle and play stadiums and never worry about money, just by trying hard enough and believing in yourself.
> 
> I keep having to listen to "why don't you just switch to a 'good' genre, then you could make that your job!" as if that's how anything works. Or people who are convinced that the only reason the bands I'm in aren't self-sustaining careers is that we're just not doing it right or not trying hard enough. Some people are convinced that if I was to put out one or two pop or country albums, I could just retire and do what I want from then forward.



I mean, when I did a poprock thing about 5-6 years ago, the level of success we had was easily 20x as much as I've had trying to do metal, and with maybe half the effort and 4x as many unexpected snags.

Not that I made enough to pay my mortgage or to consider a change of lifestyle, but it was the last time I made enough money from a musical endeavor to have to pay more taxes.

So maybe if you do those two country albums, you'll be able to turn the thermostat up another degree for the next couple of winters, at least.


----------



## Demiurge (Jan 3, 2021)

A friend of mine switched to country and has been quite successful... in making his life into an old country song. If a Yankee shoehorning a bunch of "southern" signifiers into a song isn't fooling other Yankees, back to the drawing board.

That's the thing, even modest success in music seems to rely on extra-musical factors, so if you go trend-chasing, failure is still possible and you'll look like an ass if/when it happens.


----------



## budda (Jan 3, 2021)

Not my belief but one ive heard and read many times - you have to be really good at guitar to own an expensive one.

Naw B, just need funds .


----------



## bostjan (Jan 3, 2021)




----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 3, 2021)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> .....ANYWAYS
> 
> I used to also think that having the most high gain pickups I could find was the best thing. Then I tried the X2N....good lord did I learn I was wrong.



That was my exact experience. I remember my friend's dad trying to sell me a Les Paul Studio and I said how I was gonna get a DIMarzio X2N for it. It was my holy grail pickup. This was back in like 2009?

Never got the Studio, but yeeeeeeeeears later (which was last year) I tried the X2N and remember thinking "wow this is the loudest, most blandest pickup I've ever tried."


----------



## lewis (Jan 3, 2021)

"active pickups are a joke - also, screw batteries. What a terrible inconvenience. Im never using Actives ever"

how wrong was 19 year old me haha


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 3, 2021)

lewis said:


> "active pickups are a joke - also, screw batteries. What a terrible inconvenience. Im never using Actives ever"
> 
> how wrong was 19 year old me haha


I was the opposite sorta. My idea was "Actives have GOT to be awesome"

And then I tried them..and have been using passives ever since.


----------



## TedEH (Jan 3, 2021)

bostjan said:


> when I did a poprock thing about 5-6 years ago, the level of success we had was easily 20x as much as I've had trying to do metal


That math seems scary to me - 20x zero is still zero. Even worse - I make negative money with music, so I'd rather not scale that up either.


----------



## Seabeast2000 (Jan 3, 2021)

I believe notorious hedgefund magnate Jimmy Buffet once famously said, "You have to spend money to lose money".


----------



## Matt08642 (Jan 4, 2021)

I used to think that you just went up a gauge each half step you tuned down when I started, eg standard tuning = 9s, Eb = 10s, D = 11s, etc linearly forever


----------



## groverj3 (Jan 5, 2021)

Matt08642 said:


> I used to think that you just went up a gauge each half step you tuned down when I started, eg standard tuning = 9s, Eb = 10s, D = 11s, etc linearly forever


Haha, I thought the same thing but half intervals. 10s for E-standard, 10.5s for Eb, 11s for D, etc.

I still do this though because I'm incredibly used to the feel of each guitar I have in those tunings.


----------



## groverj3 (Jan 5, 2021)

Another classic

Drop tunings are dumb because they're for people too lazy to even fret a power chord with two fingers.


----------



## Steinmetzify (Jan 5, 2021)

groverj3 said:


> Another classic
> 
> Drop tunings are dumb because they're for people too lazy to even fret a power chord with two fingers.



I started using drop tunings not to ‘be heavier’ but in fact because I AM too lazy to use two fingers to fret a power chord. Fuck that I’m busy and need to multitask my fingers thanks.


----------



## gnoll (Jan 5, 2021)

groverj3 said:


> Another classic
> 
> Drop tunings are dumb because they're for people too lazy to even fret a power chord with two fingers.





steinmetzify said:


> I started using drop tunings not to ‘be heavier’ but in fact because I AM too lazy to use two fingers to fret a power chord. Fuck that I’m busy and need to multitask my fingers thanks.



I was against drop tunings when I was younger because it seemed to be what all the uncool bands were using.

Then I joined a band using drop tunings and I realized that drop tunings actually make it much easier for me to reach some intervals and extended chords. Now I have trouble going back, because standard tuning feels so restrictive.


----------



## kisielk (Jan 5, 2021)

Heavier gauge strings sound heavier. In high school I had an Epiphone SG and wanted to play metal and rock, so of course I had to get the guitar set up with 11s, even though I played in standard tuning. Paid like $100 for a new nut and setup at the guitar shop. I was disappointed that it didn't sound any better through my 15W Fender practice amp than before.


----------



## nickgray (Jan 5, 2021)

kisielk said:


> I was disappointed that it didn't sound any better through my 15W Fender practice amp than before



Rookie mistake. Should've gotten a Metal Zone or a Zoom 505 instead


----------



## groverj3 (Jan 5, 2021)

gnoll said:


> I was against drop tunings when I was younger because it seemed to be what all the uncool bands were using.
> 
> Then I joined a band using drop tunings and I realized that drop tunings actually make it much easier for me to reach some intervals and extended chords. Now I have trouble going back, because standard tuning feels so restrictive.


Now I realize that there are uses for them like this as well. Yet, I've still never tuned to a drop tuning


----------



## potency (Jan 5, 2021)

I used to think the "Marshall Sound" meant that all Marshall amps sounded the same since that's what was in the name and thusly they had the same circuit. I had a Valvestate and it def left me wanting more. It sounded great for what it was though.

I also used to look down on Ibanez guitars, and most anything that wasn't an ESP or a Jackson. I love my Ibanez and am looking to get a few more.

I used to look through Guitar mags and think I needed every effect processor I saw in the ads. I used to think if I had an ART SGX-2000 and a Digitech RP1 I would be able to get every sound that had ever been put to tape. Good thing I couldn't afford anything back then.


----------



## InfinityCollision (Jan 5, 2021)

groverj3 said:


> Haha, I thought the same thing but half intervals. 10s for E-standard, 10.5s for Eb, 11s for D, etc.
> 
> I still do this though because I'm incredibly used to the feel of each guitar I have in those tunings.


This is a decent rule of thumb for keeping similar tension across different tunings. +1 gauge on the top string for every letter down (including C->B), +0.5 for flats in between. You stay pretty close to the original E tension all the way down to about A this way.


----------



## NotDonVito (Jan 5, 2021)

I unironically made a thread on ultimate-guitar when I was 13 asking if the tape could be removed from the neck pickup on a Dean dimebag model. I got destroyed in those comments, my favorite was "no the tape is applied with the frozen indestructible semen of Dime himself, it can never be removed sorry".


----------



## BlackMastodon (Jan 5, 2021)

NotDonVito said:


> I unironically made a thread on ultimate-guitar when I was 13 asking if the tape could be removed from the neck pickup on a Dean dimebag model. I got destroyed in those comments, my favorite was "no the tape is applied with the frozen indestructible semen of Dime himself, it can never be removed sorry".


Man, those UG forums were brutal for first time posters. Had a similar experience when trying to look up info on building a guitar in high school.


----------



## lurè (Jan 6, 2021)

When I was younger I used to think the best and most known musicians had the most reliable opinions on gear and guitars.


----------



## ElRay (Jan 6, 2021)

bostjan said:


> ... So maybe if you do those two country albums, you'll be able to turn the thermostat up another degree for the next couple of winters, at least.


The YouTuber @SamuraiGuitarist went this route in his younger days. It didn't go as well as hopped. I won't say that that the fact he's mixed (Caucasin/Asian) and Canadian had anything to do with it, but I'm not surprised. At least he's from Manitoba, he had that going for him.


----------



## ElRay (Jan 6, 2021)

Science_Penguin said:


> ... Is your song in a drop or open tuning? That doesn't require nearly as many fingers to play power chords as standard tuining! Clearly you suck! ...


Ghad! The number of times I've heard that "Alternate Tunings" (and FINGERPICKING) were cheating to make you sound better than you really are.


----------



## bostjan (Jan 6, 2021)

ElRay said:


> The YouTuber @SamuraiGuitarist went this route in his younger days. It didn't go as well as hopped. I won't say that that the fact he's mixed (Caucasin/Asian) and Canadian had anything to do with it, but I'm not surprised. At least he's from Manitoba, he had that going for him.



Yeah, I know Steve a little bit. He probably doesn't remember me, but we did a collab a while ago. He's pretty easy going and nice to work with, so I'm surprised that he didn't find success doing country music in the Canadian midwest. Perhaps he and I have different measures of success. I'm sure he's more comfortable doing youtube videos than touring around spending ten thousand bucks to make tenthousand and five back, like many of us are at this point. 

I just remember way way back when I had lower standards, I was in a country band making in a night 3-4x what I made playing in rock bands, in spite of the fact that the band had twice as many musicians in it. But things have changed a lot since then.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 6, 2021)

ElRay said:


> Ghad! The number of times I've heard that "Alternate Tunings" (and FINGERPICKING) were cheating to make you sound better than you really are.



This idea was all the rage during the NuMetal era. 

Open drop tunings were so anyone could play guitar and anyone who used them sucked and couldn't really play.


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## Spicypickles (Jan 6, 2021)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> This idea was all the rage during the NuMetal era.
> 
> Open drop tunings were so anyone could play guitar and anyone who used them sucked and couldn't really play.


Yea, like that Devin guy, dude sucks


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 6, 2021)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> This idea was all the rage during the NuMetal era.
> 
> Open drop tunings were so anyone could play guitar and anyone who used them sucked and couldn't really play.



*insert Devin Townsend doing virtuoso shit in open C*







EDIT: Fuck you @Spicypickles


----------



## noise in my mind (Jan 6, 2021)

When I was a kid I thought cranking the gain to 10 on my Crate GLX sounded good.


----------



## ZXIIIT (Jan 6, 2021)

These were things that were told to me by my school's guitar teacher,

_"You HAVE to master an acoustic before you can even get an electric."

"There's no reason for heavy gauge strings for downtuning when you can use a capo or transpose the chord. "

"7-string guitars are only needed if you do not have a bassist."
_
And the one that stuck with me forever
_"Sorry, if you do not have a band or a drummer, I can't let you perform on our guitar showcase talent show."_


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## groverj3 (Jan 6, 2021)

noise in my mind said:


> When I was a kid I thought cranking the gain to 10 on my Crate GLX sounded good.


Yesssss.

My childhood.

Don't forget to turn the mids to 0.


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## groverj3 (Jan 6, 2021)

I shook myself out of this one quickly.

That good players always can play well regardless of the quality of gear they have. Sure, it's a component, but if you give someone a shit guitar they'll sound mediocre at best. My first guitar teacher thought this. I had to play one of his other students' guitars at an open jam because I wasn't intending to play, was just checking it out, and didn't bring mine. It had the worst action I'd ever seen. When I explained that it didn't play well, he didn't think that was a good reason for sounding pretty bad. Didn't take lessons from him after that.


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## ElRay (Jan 7, 2021)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> This idea was all the rage during the NuMetal era...


I even ran into it recently from A CLASSICAL guitar instructor. I was asking if he would work through a Russian Classical Guitar method book, and it got poo-poo'ed because:

It was in an open tuning
It required a 7-string guitar
At least fingerpicking pejoratives were left out.


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## ElRay (Jan 7, 2021)

Spicypickles said:


> Yea, like that Devin guy, dude sucks


Nunes or Townsend?


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 7, 2021)

Tying in with the open tuning thing.

There's this idea that you need to be held by some standards guitarists have made up in their heads before you can be considered a "real musician".

Whether you can shred like Vai or only play a shaky version of hot cross buns..if you're where you want to be that's all that matters.

Something I learned after beating myself up over not being the next guitar god. You only need to be as good as it takes to play what's in you to play. Got riffs in your head? If you can play them then you've won. Doesn't matter if you can't beat Satriani in a shred-off. None of that shit matters.

Going back to the open tuning thing, are you using an open tuning to make music? Congrats, you're a "real musician". There's no law that says you need to do much else.

It will never matter how technically skilled you are because there will be guitarists out there who will claim you're a hack and they can do better. Stop chasing the brass ring. Play them powerchords and have fun. You're already doing better than the dude practicing for hours at a time just so he can "beat" other guitarists. He'll never win, but you did.


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## ElRay (Jan 7, 2021)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Tying in with the open tuning thing. ... There's this idea that you need to be held by some standards guitarists have made up in their heads before you can be considered a "real musician". ...


OK, one last "vent". When I lived in Baltimore, Peabody Institute required applicants to rote-memorize one of the acceptable improvisations for any audition piece where the original sheet music was noted "improvise here". I don't recall if this applied to all auditions, or just Classical Guitarists.


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## Science_Penguin (Jan 7, 2021)

ElRay said:


> I even ran into it recently from A CLASSICAL guitar instructor. I was asking if he would work through a Russian Classical Guitar method book, and it got poo-poo'ed because:
> 
> It was in an open tuning
> It required a 7-string guitar
> At least fingerpicking pejoratives were left out.



I've never heard of this anti-finger picking sentiment. Who the hell is trying to say finger picking is easy?!


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 7, 2021)

ElRay said:


> OK, one last "vent". When I lived in Baltimore, Peabody Institute required applicants to rote-memorize one of the acceptable improvisations for any audition piece where the original sheet music was noted "improvise here". I don't recall if this applied to all auditions, or just Classical Guitarists.



Baltimore seems to be the hot bed for idiotic art methods taught by schools that take themselves too seriously. MICA is the same way. All of those kids think going to MICA means they are legendary artists. The vast majority of them can't find their asses with both hands and have been brainwashed into a bunch of silly practices so much that they can't even make art. They just get lost in the steps you take before you take the steps to prepare to take the steps to make art.

I've worked with quite a few. It amazes me how you ask some random artist who's never been anywhere near a school to do something and they make gold. Ask a MICA kid? They tell you it's gonna take 2 years and several meetings before they can even think about getting it done. Yes...that has literally happened.


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## BornToLooze (Jan 7, 2021)

I don't get the hate for open tuning. I mean...


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## Mathemagician (Jan 7, 2021)

That I would one day have the patience to learn how to do my own setups. HA.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 7, 2021)

BornToLooze said:


> I don't get the hate for open tuning. I mean...
> View attachment 88722


Because stupid people think the more difficult something is the more "gooder" you must be. So if it's simple then it's wrong.

As if the greatest guitar riffs of all time aren't simple shit.


----------



## Spicypickles (Jan 7, 2021)

ElRay said:


> Nunes or Townsend?


Always Townsend. Only Devin I need to know


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## budda (Jan 7, 2021)

That's the thing, I can't play what I need to play to get the riffs out .


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 7, 2021)

budda said:


> That's the thing, I can't play what I need to play to get the riffs out .


----------



## BornToLooze (Jan 7, 2021)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Because stupid people think the more difficult something is the more "gooder" you must be. So if it's simple then it's wrong.
> 
> As if the greatest guitar riffs of all time aren't simple shit.



I mean, I kinda get it...I got into metal around the time when most tabs were 000--00-0-000. But regardless of your opinion of Dimebag, Walk has a bitching riff and it's 2 notes.

But to expand on that, and double down on my Unknown Hinson post, I grew up listening to both kinds of music until I became a punk ass teenager, and all I could listen to was "devil music" and of course I had to make sure I only listened to the "good" metal bands. Then I got to the point where I just ran of fucks to give.

Good music is good music, even if it's not your thing. Now I can listen to a song and even if I don't like it, I still try to find something good about it. I mean, hell, even Nickelback has some decent production and nails being a radio rock band (and Animals is a guilty pleasure song).


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 7, 2021)

Honestly I don't get the Nickelback hate. Granted I haven't heard anything from them since that "Too Bad" song and I liked it. I don't know what they sound like now


----------



## budda (Jan 7, 2021)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Honestly I don't get the Nickelback hate. Granted I haven't heard anything from them since that "Too Bad" song and I liked it. I don't know what they sound like now



Depends what market they feel like hitting that day.


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## BornToLooze (Jan 7, 2021)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Honestly I don't get the Nickelback hate. Granted I haven't heard anything from them since that "Too Bad" song and I liked it. I don't know what they sound like now



Me neither. I mean I don't care for them, but they are very good at what they do. 

That's like, I don't know about now, but back in the day everybody hated Avenged Sevenfold. How can you listen to City of Evil and tell me that's not a guitar players album? I swear, it's like 90% sweet licks, and not only that, they're hard enough to keep it from being boring, but easy enough that you can just enjoy playing it instead of having to focus on it.


----------



## Science_Penguin (Jan 7, 2021)

BornToLooze said:


> Me neither. I mean I don't care for them, but they are very good at what they do.
> 
> That's like, I don't know about now, but back in the day everybody hated Avenged Sevenfold. How can you listen to City of Evil and tell me that's not a guitar players album? I swear, it's like 90% sweet licks, and not only that, they're hard enough to keep it from being boring, but easy enough that you can just enjoy playing it instead of having to focus on it.



Basically just boils down to "popular thing bad!"


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 8, 2021)

Science_Penguin said:


> Basically just boils down to "popular thing bad!"


 Jealousy. For every 1 musician on a stage there are at least 100 musicians watching on the sidelines swearing they're better.

The world is full of "the greatest musicians" playing Madison Square bedroom in their mom's house talking shouldacouldawouldas about a successful/happy musician's career.


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## Themistocles (Jan 8, 2021)

Some of the typical things like ultra high output pickups are heavier (not, I prefer mid to midhigh output now, mostly because amps have so much gain these days) and shure microphones were the best and most professional. Now I never use sm 57's or sm 58's for my own recordings and prefer certain sennheisers and akgs instead (been that way for 30 years). 

I realized a few years ago that my first guitar was a pretty nice 70's Tokai strat that my mom bought me in the early 80's. I got rid of it because I wanted humbuckers and didnt understand how a good setup could have improved it immensely. I did trade it for a super rad and rare Ibanez xv500 which I should never have sold to a guitar student. Wish I had both of those back but its mostly 7 strings from now on for me.


----------



## ElRay (Jan 8, 2021)

Science_Penguin said:


> I've never heard of this anti-finger picking sentiment. Who the hell is trying to say finger picking is easy?!


I've never understood it. My best guess is that the thought process is that you can play more than one note at a time, therefore, its cheating, because otherwise you'd have to pick twice as fast.

I've also encountered the "flip side". When I first started playing, I was enamored with Joe Pass' later "free right hand", aka finger-style, jazz. Several folks called me arrogant for wanting to play like that without first learning to play with a pick.



DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Jealousy. For every 1 musician on a stage there are at least 100 musicians watching on the sidelines swearing they're better. ...


It's the old joke:

Q: How many guitarists does it take to change a light bulb?
A: One, but 99 have to stand on the side and say, "I could have done that."


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## akinari (Jan 8, 2021)

Let's not forget that Western culture prioritizes many, many things far above the arts, and as a consequence of that we're left with increasingly basic and formulaic popular music. Lil Baby sells millions, and the most talented composer I've ever met has been bartending in NY for like, 10 years.


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## EmaDaCuz (Jan 8, 2021)

Not guitar related, but I think still counts.

When I was younger, I "auditioned" as a drummer for a local band. Never played the drums before, but I felt like I had some good sense of rhythm and was quite skilled at hitting pillows and pans with... CHINESE STICKS. I was sure they would work very well on drums, too. Needless to say, I didn't get the gig ahahahah


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## John (Jan 8, 2021)

Back when I was around 7 and barely out on the guitar, I thought that blues and singer-songwriter folk stuff were the only things that people ever played on the guitar as that was the only type of guitar-related material that anyone around me ever played on CD, cassette, or in person.

Little did I know that I was going to be in for a rude awakening with the likes of prog, rock, metal, shred, fusion jazz, flamenco, and so much more.


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## bostjan (Jan 8, 2021)

EmaDaCuz said:


> Not guitar related, but I think still counts.
> 
> When I was younger, I "auditioned" as a drummer for a local band. Never played the drums before, but I felt like I had some good sense of rhythm and was quite skilled at hitting pillows and pans with... CHINESE STICKS. I was sure they would work very well on drums, too. Needless to say, I didn't get the gig ahahahah



You might have started a trend. About 5 years ago, I was in a band that auditioned a guy who showed up with chopsticks instead of drumsticks!


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## Themistocles (Jan 8, 2021)

EmaDaCuz said:


> Not guitar related, but I think still counts.
> 
> When I was younger, I "auditioned" as a drummer for a local band. Never played the drums before, but I felt like I had some good sense of rhythm and was quite skilled at hitting pillows and pans with... CHINESE STICKS. I was sure they would work very well on drums, too. Needless to say, I didn't get the gig ahahahah


Im going to try it on my kit later today... might sound cool??? Ive had to be my own drummer since March so maybe its time I chopstick auditioned for myself...


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 8, 2021)

Dave Mustaine was a political genius.


----------



## Ordacleaphobia (Jan 8, 2021)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Honestly I don't get the Nickelback hate. Granted I haven't heard anything from them since that "Too Bad" song and I liked it. I don't know what they sound like now



I may just be living a fever dream but I kinda feel like this was a short-time thing from a handful of years back.
Every time I see them get brought up here and honestly anywhere else everyone seems to be pretty much on the same page of "Their production slaps and they're good enough at what they do." 

Same with A7X since they got mentioned too. It seems like a cycle of heavier sounding band gets mainstream success > popular thing bad > popular thing honestly not too bad.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 8, 2021)

To be honest I kinda get the A7X dislike. They seem like ball-less copies of an 80s band if it were redone with Backstreet Boys inspiration. The singer is annoying and I'm just not into it.

Do I hate them? Nah. Do I wish ill on them? Nah. They just aren't my thing but kudos to them for being around so long and succeeding.


----------



## Mathemagician (Jan 8, 2021)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Honestly I don't get the Nickelback hate. Granted I haven't heard anything from them since that "Too Bad" song and I liked it. I don't know what they sound like now



Apparently they recently put out some of the heaviest shit you’ll ever hear on the radio. They are skilled musicians, but they choose to write music that will sell. And their production is top-notch. The “photograph” song was played out on the radio, but I bet they had a great live show.



BornToLooze said:


> Me neither. I mean I don't care for them, but they are very good at what they do.
> 
> That's like, I don't know about now, but back in the day everybody hated Avenged Sevenfold. How can you listen to City of Evil and tell me that's not a guitar players album? I swear, it's like 90% sweet licks, and not only that, they're hard enough to keep it from being boring, but easy enough that you can just enjoy playing it instead of having to focus on it.



City of Evil was one of the best modern metalcore/thrash albums ever. And the prior album Elephant Trumpets, had THE drop D riff everyone pretends they didn’t steal.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 8, 2021)

Mathemagician said:


> Apparently they recently put out some of the heaviest shit you’ll ever hear on the radio.



It was one song on Feed the Machine. The title track. Besides another track being decent (Coin To the Ferryman), the rest of the album is your typical Nickelback... stuff.


----------



## bostjan (Jan 8, 2021)

Mathemagician said:


> They are skilled musicians, but they choose to write music that will sell.


Agreed. The wrote that one song that was crazy popular. In fact, they kept writing that one song that was crazy popular, over and over. 

I think the trouble with Nickelback is that they have some cool-enough songs, but they also aren't at all afraid to write the cringiest lyrics ever:



An actual Nickelback song said:


> One step, two step, electric slide
> Red fish, blue fish, blow your mind
> Engine, engine, number nine
> Mama’s gonna let you set the moon on fire
> ...


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 8, 2021)

Fun fact: It's the job of professional musicians to sell music. If you know the formula to make a hit, you do so. Not saying you have to completely suck cock for cash but your singles SHOULD be your attempt at a hit song. That's kinda the whole point.


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## KnightBrolaire (Jan 8, 2021)

Dark Horse is the only good nickelback album


----------



## bostjan (Jan 8, 2021)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Fun fact: It's the job of professional musicians to sell music. If you know the formula to make a hit, you do so. Not saying you have to completely suck cock for cash but your singles SHOULD be your attempt at a hit song. That's kinda the whole point.


I disagree. The job of a musician is to *make* music. The job of radios and the music media is to _sell_ music. There's plenty of music out there that is a better product than Nickelback's music, that does not sell as well as Nickelback does. That doesn't mean that Nickelback makes better music.

If you want to espouse the idea of more sales = better product, then I could point out plenty of your arguments in threads about guitars and amps to convince you that yourself might have a point.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 8, 2021)

bostjan said:


> I disagree. The job of a musician is to *make* music. The job of radios and the music media is to _sell_ music. There's plenty of music out there that is a better product than Nickelback's music, that does not sell as well as Nickelback does. That doesn't mean that Nickelback makes better music.
> 
> If you want to espouse the idea of more sales = better product, then I could point out plenty of your arguments in threads about guitars and amps to convince you that yourself might have a point.


Nowhere did I day sales = better product and I never would.

But a professional musician pays their bills by making music. If you are signed to a big label it's quite literally your job to sell music. When you don't do your job they fire you aka not continuing your contract.

That's how the business works. You want to make hits because it works in your favor to do so.

These days musicians make their money off of tours and merch..BUT a hit song is how you make that happen. If you've got a hit on your hands then hopefully that means you'll make enough that the label and all the little folks get their money out of your release, and you've made enough to see money from it. That money also goes to funding tours, buying merch, etc.

The entire point of a single is to catch people's ears so they are interested in what you do. A single is essentially a commercial for your band. Any marketing will tell you that a commercial is only effective if it catches on.


----------



## Mathemagician (Jan 8, 2021)

bostjan said:


> Agreed. The wrote that one song that was crazy popular. In fact, they kept writing that one song that was crazy popular, over and over.
> 
> I think the trouble with Nickelback is that they have some cool-enough songs, but they also aren't at all afraid to write the cringiest lyrics ever:



Any song that references Humpty Dumpty unironically is straight fire.




KnightBrolaire said:


> Dark Horse is the only good nickelback album



It’s also an AMAZING Katy Perry song. Try not to sing that chorus.



bostjan said:


> I disagree. The job of a musician is to *make* music. The job of radios and the music media is to _sell_ music. There's plenty of music out there that is a better product than Nickelback's music, that does not sell as well as Nickelback does. That doesn't mean that Nickelback makes better music.
> 
> If you want to espouse the idea of more sales = better product, then I could point out plenty of your arguments in threads about guitars and amps to convince you that yourself might have a point.



Everyone does their job the simplest way possible. If the radio has to work to convince an audience that a song is good, versus a song that “sells itself” radio is going to pick the easy one.

If a band can play for a decade and still be stuck in tiny bars, or reach a level that allows them to feed their families (or better) it’s their choice to do that.

If a band does/doesn’t change their sound and I don’t like it I just find something new to listen to. They’re having fun and I work at an office like, who is having more fun?

Sales =/= Better, but does = Eating. And freeeee geeeaaaarrrr.


----------



## bostjan (Jan 8, 2021)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Nowhere did I day sales = better product and I never would.
> 
> But a professional musician pays their bills by making music. If you are signed to a big label it's quite literally your job to sell music. When you don't do your job they fire you aka not continuing your contract.
> 
> ...



Pop musicians yes. Metal musicians - are you crazy? When was the last time any metal song was a "hit?"

The guys in Dream Theater and Periphery and whatever prog-whatever-hybrid-metal bands you and I don't listen to are still doing what they are doing and maybe had that one hit song that one time, but are still financially viable.

And this all comes back to how vapid some of Nickelback's lyrics are. If you gauge their success on how well they do their job, then you need to define their job. Selling records? Nobody sells records anymore. Writing good music? With those lyrics and that same tempo/structure/chord progression that they already used at least once on that same album? Nah. So what is it? It's consumerism. Everybody knows them because of the hate toward them, so it works in their favour in that respect.

I personally don't hate Nickelback. Hate's wayyyy too strong a term for my indifference toward their music. If I hear them on the radio, I'll just flip the station (oddly, I can't recall hearing them on the radio in the past ten years anyway). If you want to say that they are successful, then sure, but I wasn't trying to say that they weren't. I just think that their music is typically very low-effort. I think a lot of extremely popular music makes Nickelback's music sound like Beethoven's 9th Symphony, though, so it's all relative.


----------



## bostjan (Jan 8, 2021)

Mathemagician said:


> Any song that references Humpty Dumpty unironically is straight fire.


Hey, cringecore is a legitimate genre, sure.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 8, 2021)

bostjan said:


> Pop musicians yes. Metal musicians - are you crazy? When was the last time any metal song was a "hit?"
> 
> The guys in Dream Theater and Periphery and whatever prog-whatever-hybrid-metal bands you and I don't listen to are still doing what they are doing and maybe had that one hit song that one time, but are still financially viable.
> 
> ...



If you are signed to a label..you are signed because the label wants to make money off of you. Even metal bands attempt hits. That's the ENTIRE purpose of a single.

Every time you see a metal band with a new video, they are putting out the commercial for you to buy their brand. Even if it doesn't go platinum like mainstream artists, the entire purpose of a single is to be an ear bug that makes money.

Every metal band wants a "Raining Blood" or "Sad But True" or "Hammer Smashed Face". Those songs catch on, the bands make money.

You aren't signed to a label just because the label likes you as a person. That's not how it works. How do you think bands like Dream Theater and Periphery get what they get? Their music is at least minimally lucrative. Even if it's on a small scale, their songs still count as hits. 

The entire purpose of a single is to put your best and catchiest song out there so it gets attention. That's hit making.


----------



## bostjan (Jan 8, 2021)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> If you are signed to a label..you are signed because the label wants to make money off of you. Even metal bands attempt hits. That's the ENTIRE purpose of a single.
> 
> Every time you see a metal band with a new video, they are putting out the commercial for you to buy their brand. Even if it doesn't go platinum like mainstream artists, the entire purpose of a single is to be an ear bug that makes money.
> 
> ...



Where did I say that was how it worked?!



DrakkarTyrannis said:


> How do you think bands like Dream Theater and Periphery get what they get?



Because people buy their albums. People buy their albums because of the dense character of the music they make. Not because they write catchy earworms. Even though people buy their albums, these bands probably don't make enough money from album sales to support themselves (it's even been discussed by Misha from Periphery here on this forum). They get endorsements. Do they get endorsements from hit songs? Maybe, but it's exceptionally rare if it ever works that way at all.

For example, how does John Petrucci make money? Lots of ways - guitar clinics, guitar lessons, guitar videos, signature guitars, signature amps, John Petrucci merchandise, John Petrucci beard oil, touring, etc. etc. etc. There's a ton of diversity there. The brand "Dream Theater" is worth a thousand if not ten thousand times as much as whatever their plays and purchases are for singles.

Maybe those are more extreme examples, but, in metal bands, this is the general way things work out, not heaps of riches from being a hit-parade radio-friendly hit-factory.



DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Their music is at least minimally lucrative. Even if it's on a small scale, their songs still count as hits.
> 
> The entire purpose of a single is to put your best and catchiest song out there so it gets attention. That's hit making.



Still disagree. My question about which metal song in recent memory was a hit was completely ignored in your response to me, but ask yourself that question and try to see where I'm coming from before telling me that I don't know what I'm talking about.

I mean, you are a reasonably accomplished musician yourself, so, I'm puzzled why you would even argue against me on this.


----------



## Spicypickles (Jan 8, 2021)

Just wanna say that nickelback’s tones are pretty damn good.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 8, 2021)

bostjan said:


> Where did I say that was how it worked?!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



A hit isn't always something that makes heaps of money in the pop music sense. A hit is a song that has legs and walks in order to get bands broader attention and sells. For metal a hit might not be Beyonce levels of money, but a hit will take you far.

Walk
Raining Blood
No More Tears
Bodies
Hammer Smashed Face
Down With The Sickness
Brackish
Nookie
Enter Sandman
Falling Away From Me
Push It
Progenies Of The Great Apocalypse
Conquer All
Wait And Bleed

Those are all hit metal songs. Metal isn't likely to hit the top of the charts BUT for that genre those are defining songs that pave the way for bigger money. Some of the songs I mentioned lead to gold and platinum albums. Those are indeed hit songs.

I think you're assuming that writing a hit song means just making garbage that sells. That's not the point. Are you suggesting that bands can't be good and write hit music? Hit music is a formula. There are entire studies on this. When you want a single to do well you can craft one that has potential to do so. Or you take your most catchy song, have it edited as a single or radio edit and that's designed to fit within those parameters.


Talent isn't even a factor in the music industry. It's not about talent. It's about how much money you can generate to keep the wheels greased. Labels are about money. Dream Theatre makes money. Even if it's not huge money like Metallica would, they still pull down enough to keep things afloat. That's just how the music industry works.

Obviously endorsements and all that are part of it..but you know what gets endorsements? Popular musicians with a fan base. How do you get a fan base? Music that catches people. What's a single called that catches people and leads to money? A hit.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying but it comes across to me as if you don't know these things


----------



## bostjan (Jan 8, 2021)

A hit song is a song on the charts...as in "hit the charts." The songs you listed... a couple I don't even know what they are (maybe if you listed the artists), some definitely did not chart, and the rest are well over 10 years old.

Take your prime example "Walk" (I assume Pantera). It never landed on the Billboard Charts and is 28 years old. It's not like the other examples are much newer and more popular than that one. But that doesn't qualify as a "hit," except in the broadest interpretation of the word... and that's the first one you thought of.

That's my point. Metal doesn't crank out hit songs, but still exists as an art form and still pays (some) career artists quite well, but not because of hit singles.

Sure, in general hit songs lead to fans which lead to money, but if a musician isn't cranking out hit songs, it does not, in any way, imply that the musician is not doing the job of ""musician."" Whether you write a song one person really really likes or you write a hundred songs that the grocery store blasts over its speakers to quietly passify millions customers, you qualify as a musician doing a good job.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 8, 2021)

bostjan said:


> A hit song is a song on the charts...as in "hit the charts." The songs you listed... a couple I don't even know what they are (maybe if you listed the artists), some definitely did not chart, and the rest are well over 10 years old.
> 
> Take your prime example "Walk" (I assume Pantera). It never landed on the Billboard Charts and is 28 years old. It's not like the other examples are much newer and more popular than that one. But that doesn't qualify as a "hit," except in the broadest interpretation of the word... and that's the first one you thought of.
> 
> ...



Hit songs are songs that break a band into some form of success. I'll say it again, we aren't talking about hits in the pop sense.

Walk is indeed a hit song. It's one of the most easily recognized metal songs of all time, even by people who don't listen to metal. It's THE song Pantera is known for and it's what paved the path for their success. If that's not a hit I don't know what is.

Metal is full of hit songs. Remember the 80s hair metal thing? Remember the numetal movement?

When you have old ladies singing "Let the bodies hit the floor" at karaoke night in their small town bars, you can consider that song a hit.

And again..labels don't sign bands that they think won't make them money. And when they have bands that are duds with pulling in cash they drop them from the label.

When you sign to a label it's like working a regular job. Your boss expects certain things of you and if you don't meet the expectations set forth that are designed to make the boss money, he fires you.

Btw nowhere did I say a musician's job is to make hit songs/money. I said a professional musician signed to a label's job is to make money. Because it is. Labels don't care if you fart into a tin can. If it sells then they want you to keep doing it. Your job isn't just to make music. It's to make music that makes money.

Here's another example. Morbid Angel is the first band to ever be signed to a big label. They released Covenant and it was the biggest selling death metal album ever.

God of Emptiness became their "breakout" single.

Album has only sold 150,00 copies. Put in terms of death metal that is a huge hit. Why did the label sign them? Because death metal was taking off and labels wanted to cash in on it.

However death metal wasn't as big as labels were hoping for and even though by metal standards Covenant is groundbreaking, MA got dropped from the major label and went back to a smaller one.

A hit doesn't always mean millions of dollars. It wasn't a hit in the pop sense but that album put Morbid Angel on the map


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 8, 2021)

Oh and Vulgar Display Of Power went double platinum in just America alone. It went platinum and gold in other places. How's that not a hit record? It was on the Billboard 200 for 80 weeks.


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## bostjan (Jan 8, 2021)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Hit songs are songs that break a band into some form of success. I'll say it again, we aren't talking about hits in the pop sense.
> 
> Walk is indeed a hit song. It's one of the most easily recognized metal songs of all time, even by people who don't listen to metal. It's THE song Pantera is known for and it's what paved the path for their success. If that's not a hit I don't know what is.
> 
> ...



1. So is Macklemore not a professional musician? If he is, what label is he signed to, and, if not, what "job" does he have?
2. Let's define "hit." Collins Dictionary defines it as a pop song that sells well at release. I was under the general impression that a "hit" had to appear on a chart, such as Billboard Top 40 or Hot 100.
3. The 80's ended 30 years ago, though. Numetal ended nearly 25 years ago. That's what you consider recent? I don't think any label would be happy signing an artist if that artist went on to earn them no money for 20 years. You get what I'm saying?!
4. Different labels have different expectations. Why are you trying to tell me working as a musician is like working a job? Did I say otherwise? Seems out of left field.
5. Those old ladies singing "Bodies" at karaoke were probably young ladies the last time a metal song was on the Top 40 charts.



DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Oh and Vulgar Display Of Power went double platinum in just America alone. It went platinum and gold in other places. How's that not a hit record? It was on the Billboard 200 for 80 weeks.


Note my earlier point about metal bands making it financially because of albums, not songs?


bostjan said:


> Because people buy their albums. People buy their albums because of the dense character of the music they make. Not because they write catchy earworms. Even though people buy their albums, these bands probably don't make enough money from album sales to support themselves (it's even been discussed by Misha from Periphery here on this forum). They get endorsements. Do they get endorsements from hit songs? Maybe, but it's exceptionally rare if it ever works that way at all.


In case you missed it.

It seems like maybe we are arguing in agreement at this point.

I was only saying that you don't need to write a hit song to be a good musician.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 8, 2021)

bostjan said:


> 1. So is Macklemore not a professional musician? If he is, what label is he signed to, and, if not, what "job" does he have?
> 2. Let's define "hit." Collins Dictionary defines it as a pop song that sells well at release. I was under the general impression that a "hit" had to appear on a chart, such as Billboard Top 40 or Hot 100.
> 3. The 80's ended 30 years ago, though. Numetal ended nearly 25 years ago. That's what you consider recent? I don't think any label would be happy signing an artist if that artist went on to earn them no money for 20 years. You get what I'm saying?!
> 4. Different labels have different expectations. Why are you trying to tell me working as a musician is like working a job? Did I say otherwise? Seems out of left field.
> ...



Okay...I'm trying to watch my wording here because I don't want to come off as an ass but...what the hell are you talking about?

Do you know what the difference is between an amateur and professional? At the point where you are making money with your music and it is a business, you are a professional. I don't know much about Mackelmore. But yes he'd be a professional since he had a hit song that went through a label and all that. What do you think labels do? They hire musicians to make money. That's what a label is. It's the same as wanting to be a professional chef so you try to get employed by a big name restaurant.

A hit isn't just a pop song. Surely you can't believe that.

It doesn't matter how long ago the 80s was. Metal bands wrote hit songs then. I just pointed out two completely different eras in which metal bands made hit songs. Not only that but I ran off a list of songs that classify as hits as they're definitive songs that brought those bands to financial success. I don't even listen to modern metal so I have no clue what's being played on the radio and what's selling these days. When it happens doesn't matter...it's that it happens at all. Time has nothing to do with it.

Labels have different bottom line expectations on how much money a band should bring in. But labels make money by selling records. Labels aren't a charity organization. They hire bands that can bring in money. That's just simple music business stuff.

Do you not know how marketing works? I brought up the old lady at karaoke because it shows the broad range appeal of a song. At the point where you have people outside of your demographic who not only have heard your music but can sing it from memory, you have succeeded. That's what a single is SUPPOSED to do.

Am I not explaining this correctly? Am I misunderstanding where you're coming from? What is going on here because I'm genuinely confused as so what you're trying to get across here because from what I'm getting from it, you're not making a lick of sense.

Do you know what a single is? Bands release singles to an album to get people to buy the album. The ENTIRE purpose of a single is to be a commercial for the band. Singles that lead to albums going gold and platinum make for a hit record. That's pretty much the top of the tier in terms of a professional musician's goal for a good career.


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## bostjan (Jan 8, 2021)

Mackelmore was never on a label.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 8, 2021)

bostjan said:


> Mackelmore was never on a label.


What does that have to do with anything?


Dude..just...we're gonna end it here. Because I can't even type all the things in my head I'd want to say right now.


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## Mboogie7 (Jan 8, 2021)

I used to believe that active pickups would somewhat resemble a noise gate . I thought “well, if they’re ‘active’ and run on batteries, then it’s gotta be like.. just the tightest sound you could possibly get”.


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## Science_Penguin (Jan 8, 2021)

Mboogie7 said:


> I used to believe that active pickups would somewhat resemble a noise gate . I thought “well, if they’re ‘active’ and run on batteries, then it’s gotta be like.. just the tightest sound you could possibly get”.



I mean... They're certainly among the quieter pickups I've ever used. Until you start playing them, of course.


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## spudmunkey (Jan 8, 2021)

That a whammy bar functions not by pulling up or pushing down on the bar, but by spinning it.

That "distortion" comes from the guitar's controls. Pedals? What are those?

That hammer on and pull-offs aren't things, so if someone isn't picking a note and you hear one, they are fake playing.

That pointy guitars always sound distorted.


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## Science_Penguin (Jan 9, 2021)

I honestly used to think "distortion" was just the "electric guitar sound' and "clean" was the "acoustic guitar sound."

And before I knew what a bass actually was, I assumed it was just an electric guitar, six strings and all, but instead of the "electric guitar sound" it had the "bass guitar sound" and when you turned that off, it played like an acoustic.

I was kind of a dumb kid.


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## exo (Jan 9, 2021)

I don’t even know what happened in the last 5-6 posts.....

so, returning to the “real” about all this....I’m actually generally curious about the “what if’s” about people (Jon Schaffer among them) being in what would generally be considered “publicly accessible areas” of the Capitol Building while all the BS went down.....


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## groverj3 (Jan 9, 2021)

exo said:


> I don’t even know what happened in the last 5-6 posts.....
> 
> so, returning to the “real” about all this....I’m actually generally curious about the “what if’s” about people (Jon Schaffer among them) being in what would generally be considered “publicly accessible areas” of the Capitol Building while all the BS went down.....


I think you meant to post this in the Jon Schaffer thread.

On another note though, I used to live in Edwardsburg/Niles, MI. Just across into MI from you there in Elkhart, IN. Grew up hanging around the South Bend, IN area a lot. Small world.


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## Fis:Destroyer (Jan 9, 2021)

Science_Penguin said:


> I honestly used to think "distortion" was just the "electric guitar sound' and "clean" was the "acoustic guitar sound."



as recently as two years ago, I still have had trouble overcoming this. It’s so ingrained in my head that guitars need distortion that even light overdrive sounds acoustic/clean to me sometimes. On the first Creeping Hush record, I kept my phaser on the entire record just to not sound “clean”. I’m a dumb 40 year old, sometimes.


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## exo (Jan 9, 2021)

groverj3 said:


> I think you meant to post this in the Jon Schaffer thread.
> 
> On another note though, I used to live in Edwardsburg/Niles, MI. Just across into MI from you there in Elkhart, IN. Grew up hanging around the South Bend, IN area a lot. Small world.



correct. Multiple tabs and multiple drinks don’t always mix


And yeah, small world indeed.....


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## TedEH (Jan 9, 2021)

Science_Penguin said:


> I honestly used to think "distortion" was just the "electric guitar sound' and "clean" was the "acoustic guitar sound."


I honestly think a lot of people think this. (Mostly non-musicians, obviously.)


----------



## Seabeast2000 (Jan 9, 2021)

OMG, how do I get a tube amp, must be tube, tube amps are so expensive (they were relatively, for a time), SS sucks right? yes, I guess for sure! Really need a tube amp. Tubes, and then I need NOS tubes because they are also expensive or something but they are required. Genuine or reissue pre solid-state era guitars and gear is just so much better.


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## Electric Wizard (Jan 9, 2021)

spudmunkey said:


> That a whammy bar functions not by pulling up or pushing down on the bar, but by spinning it.


I honestly thought this right until buying a guitar with a floyd. A friend of mine broke the arm on his strat thinking this too.


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## littlebadboy (Jan 9, 2021)

When I was a young kid as an air guitarist, I thought it would be cool to use a ball pen tip as a pick on an electric guitar and shred. I don't know why. Never tried it.


----------



## spudmunkey (Jan 9, 2021)

littlebadboy said:


> When I was a young kid as an air guitarist, I thought it would be cool to use a ball pen tip as a pick on an electric guitar and shred. I don't know why. Never tried it.



I can imagine the tip getting damaged, losing the ball, and ink slowly leaking out. But, like, not in a cool way. Just enough to get on a part of your finger you don't see right away, and then you leave a smudge on the guitar, your shirt, or your nose.

As a young air guitarist, that almost all guitar music comes from playing with both of your hands very close together as if playing on the 32nd fret.


----------



## LordCashew (Jan 9, 2021)

ElRay said:


> I even ran into it recently from A CLASSICAL guitar instructor. I was asking if he would work through a Russian Classical Guitar method book, and it got poo-poo'ed because:
> 
> It was in an open tuning
> It required a 7-string guitar
> At least fingerpicking pejoratives were left out.



My guess is he just didn’t want to do the work to make that happen with you. Probably the open tuning or extra string seemed like too much hassle/not worth his time to figure out for one student. Trying to invalidate the music on any level because of those things is ridiculous though. 



ElRay said:


> OK, one last "vent". When I lived in Baltimore, Peabody Institute required applicants to rote-memorize one of the acceptable improvisations for any audition piece where the original sheet music was noted "improvise here". I don't recall if this applied to all auditions, or just Classical Guitarists.



This does seem very odd. I could see a transcription or rote memorization of an improvised solo as a reasonable requirement in a _jazz_ audition, sure. In the rare instances I’ve seen improvisation called for in classical guitar music, it was for the express purpose of creating an element of randomness in an avant-garde piece. 

Do you happen to remember the piece(s) in question?


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## Seabeast2000 (Jan 9, 2021)

spudmunkey said:


> I can imagine the tip getting damaged, losing the ball, and ink slowly leaking out. But, like, not in a cool way. Just enough to get on a part of your finger you don't see right away, and then you leave a smudge on the guitar, your shirt, or your nose.
> 
> As a young air guitarist, that almost all guitar music comes from playing with both of your hands very close together as if playing on the 32nd fret.



I think you guys just came up with a cool custom finish idea.


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## thebeesknees22 (Jan 9, 2021)

littlebadboy said:


> When I was a young kid as an air guitarist, I thought it would be cool to use a ball pen tip as a pick on an electric guitar and shred. I don't know why. Never tried it.



when i had my first electric I would mess around using pens as a substitute for a slide since I didn't have one lol. It kinda worked. ..sort of.


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## InfinityCollision (Jan 9, 2021)

LordIronSpatula said:


> This does seem very odd. I could see a transcription or rote memorization of an improvised solo as a reasonable requirement in a _jazz_ audition, sure. In the rare instances I’ve seen improvisation called for in classical guitar music, it was for the express purpose of creating an element of randomness in an avant-garde piece.


Improvisation fell out of favor in orchestral performances over the previous century, especially from about the 60s on. Playing prepared work for cadenzas is quite common, and improv has only recently begun making a comeback in those circles. It's likely that this practice was extended to cover the entire department in question and thus also included their classical guitarists.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 9, 2021)

thebeesknees22 said:


> when i had my first electric I would mess around using pens as a substitute for a slide since I didn't have one lol. It kinda worked. ..sort of.



I'd completely forgotten that I tried this a couple times when I was younger. I did it because of the "solo" on Run Like Hell by Kittie.


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## BornToLooze (Jan 9, 2021)

thebeesknees22 said:


> when i had my first electric I would mess around using pens as a substitute for a slide since I didn't have one lol. It kinda worked. ..sort of.



I've always used my lighter for a slide.


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## Science_Penguin (Jan 9, 2021)

BornToLooze said:


> I've always used my lighter for a slide.



I only ever want to play slide when I have beer... So that's what I use.


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## KnightBrolaire (Jan 9, 2021)

Science_Penguin said:


> I only ever want to play slide when I have beer... So that's what I use.


howlin wolf and robert johnson would be proud.


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## BornToLooze (Jan 9, 2021)

Science_Penguin said:


> I only ever want to play slide when I have beer... So that's what I use.



To me it feels weird using a beer bottle if I hold the guitar normal. The couple times I've done it, I flipped the guitar on it's side like a dobro. But then you need an empty beer, and another beer.


----------



## Science_Penguin (Jan 9, 2021)

BornToLooze said:


> But then you need an empty beer, and another beer.



I don't see the downside.


----------



## bluffalo (Jan 10, 2021)

There was a local music store catalog in the junk mail and it had a bunch of Ibanez range in it. The first page had two of the GiO range, eg beginner and cheap guitars that I might be able to get for Christmas. 

The only visible difference was the colour, and the vol / tone knobs. One guitar had Strat style ones with the numbers printed on them, the other was just the typical metal round knobs with no "flange" I guess is the word where the numbers are printed. 

The product description was near identical - with one saying tremolo and one saying vintage tremolo. So I gathered the "knobs" were the trem. 

Then I went to the store and wanted to play that model without the numbers printed on the knobs. the salesman asked what drew me to that model and I said "it has a better tremolo" - he looked very confused and his confusion made me feel embarrassed. 

I was 11 years old or so.


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## Quiet Coil (Jan 10, 2021)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> I was stupid as fuck.


LOL. You don’t know what you don’t know when you don’t know it.

Add me to the group that abhorred Fender for no good reason (until I found the Billy Corgan hardtail Strat).

Also frowned upon “drop/bar chord” tunings and assumed most bands didn’t - whereas now I spend 95% of my playing time in drop A, B, C or D.

Also was an “EMG or go home” snob for a decade or so. The rails pickups I tried in the above mentioned Strat were the perfect gateway to the joy of passives (not that I have anything against active, I just don’t hardly use them anymore).

Then there was insisting on building all of my own string sets from singles. I learned a lot - but mostly what I learned is that (for me) it’s not worth the hassle if you just stop obsessing and play. I allow myself to swap out one (two at most) on the standard sets I’ve come to like.

P.S. When it comes to string gauges, ideal tension ≠ ideal tone.



CM_X5 said:


> In fact worrying about all the smallest details when I should be worrying about playing


See line under my username.


----------



## MetalGravy (Jan 10, 2021)

spudmunkey said:


> That a whammy bar functions not by pulling up or pushing down on the bar, but by spinning it.



Bahahahahahahahaha!

TBF, my first guitar was a Squier Strat.

Here are mine:

It is perfectly sensible to buy a cheap guitar and upgrade the components because of course it will sound and play the same as that more expensive one for less money.

The fretboard needs to be as flat as possible to shred.


Learned my lesson on the first after buying an Ltd F-207, crunching the numbers, and realizing it would have been cheaper to just get a 7620. Then, found a 7620 with the exact upgrades I had planned to make, bought it, and found that I couldn't play the damned thing because the neck and fretboard were too flat. Learned that second lesson again after getting an Agile Intrepid 82527.


----------



## BornToLooze (Jan 10, 2021)

Science_Penguin said:


> I don't see the downside.



Well you've obviously never been half drunk, grabbed the wrong beer when a slide part was coming up and looked like you pissed yourself.

Lighters are the way, especially if you use a bic. Then you can add a little Rammstein flair to your slide playing.




Quiet Coil said:


> Add me to the group that abhorred Fender for no good reason (until I found the Billy Corgan hardtail Strat).



I had a legit reason to hate Fender. I was an angsty ass teenager and my dad had one. I did finally buy one, Dave Murray Strat with 3 humbuckers and a Floyd, and that was different enough my inner teenager was okay, until I let him borrow it. I'm a Gibson guy, so we've been going back and forth like Ford and Chevy owners for years, so of course I had to text him about how I bought one of his damn Fenders and if he wants to try it out.

He was playing it with his band, and had Strat on a stand, and I got to looking at them. Sunburst body, white guard, rosewood neck....sonofabitch, I pretty much bought the same guitar that made me swear to never buy a Fender. And he loved to Floyd because it had fine tuners on it.

I think I'm going to sell it and buy a Jazzmaster or something. Who am I kidding, I almost bought the same damn Strat as his (I can't remember what it is, but it's the one that came with Lace Sensors and a weird nut) but in white.


----------



## ElRay (Jan 10, 2021)

LordIronSpatula said:


> ... Do you happen to remember the piece(s) in question?


This was decades ago. I don't remember the specifics. A list was published with required/approved audition pieces and the acceptable "improvisations" to be used, if necessary were included. Detractor said it was due to an under-current of "Don't be arrogant, you can't do better than the masters that came before you", supporters claimed it was ONLY to make the audition process fair/easier for the evaluators.


----------



## littlebadboy (Jan 14, 2021)

I didn't understand why guitar amps have their own drive when rhere are distortion pedals anyway.


----------



## BornToLooze (Jan 14, 2021)

littlebadboy said:


> I didn't understand why guitar amps have their own drive when rhere are distortion pedals anyway.



Personally, back when I was still playing live, I had my pedal board shit the bed, so I had to switch to running straight in mid-set, and just cranked the gain a little more to compensate for no OD. And me and the other guitar player both had Voxs where you could run them into a DI box (back before that was a common thing) and we were having technical difficulties, and weren't getting a signal from my amp to the board, so I ran home and got my 212 6505 because it was loud enough to keep up with the PA system without a mic.


----------



## TedEH (Jan 15, 2021)

littlebadboy said:


> I didn't understand why guitar amps have their own drive when rhere are distortion pedals anyway.


Maybe modern devices are catching up, but traditionally there was no way a pedal could accomplish the same thing an amp could. It seems like a weird comparison - drive on an amp doesn't serve the same purpose as a drive pedal. It's like saying "why do we have mixers when everything you plug into it has it's own volume knob anyway".


----------



## Dooky (Jan 18, 2021)

A stupid thing that I used to believe about guitar is that the type of wood it is made from significantly affects the tone.


----------



## ResistentialAssultSquadron (Jan 18, 2021)

That SGs were the greatest guitars of all-time...boy was i wrong.


----------



## groverj3 (Jan 20, 2021)

The pentatonic scale is only for the old guys who play blues in one position on the neck and talk shit about anyone who plays anything other than blues.


----------



## groverj3 (Jan 20, 2021)

Techs, generally, know what they're doing.


----------



## Obed1224 (Jan 20, 2021)

1. "ReAl pLaYeRs DOnt DrOP TuNE"
Bullshit.

2. Passive electronics = good
Actives = bad
Also bullshit.

3. "Fenders and Gibsons are the absolute god tier guitars"
That one is embarassing haha

4. The thinnest pick possible gives you absolute shredding speed.
Yikes...


----------



## Chanson (Jan 20, 2021)

That I could sound just like my favorite players if I knew how they set their EQ


----------



## gnoll (Jan 20, 2021)

groverj3 said:


> The pentatonic scale is only for the old guys who play blues in one position on the neck and talk shit about anyone who plays anything other than blues.



I still don't really understand the appeal of the pentatonic scale. Why would you want to get rid of those two notes? Those are awesome flavorful notes that you throw away when making the scale pentatonic.


----------



## groverj3 (Jan 20, 2021)

gnoll said:


> I still don't really understand the appeal of the pentatonic scale. Why would you want to get rid of those two notes? Those are awesome flavorful notes that you throw away when making the scale pentatonic.


My realization was that it's a way to avoid landing on notes that don't "work" in whatever key by ignoring notes that might vary in the underlying chords. In addition to being the "sound of blues." But I agree on the sense that I wish that "playing pentatonic licks" wasn't so synonymous with "improvisation."


----------



## BenjaminW (Jan 20, 2021)

ResistentialAssultSquadron said:


> That SGs were the greatest guitars of all-time...boy was i wrong.


My dream guitar for years was an SG, specifically a 1972 SG Deluxe. So I can thank Tony Iommi and George Harrison for fueling my SG GAS. 

Luckily for me I wised up and when I got my first Gibson, it was a Les Paul Axcess.


----------



## gnoll (Jan 20, 2021)

groverj3 said:


> My realization was that it's a way to avoid landing on notes that don't "work" in whatever key by ignoring notes that might vary in the underlying chords.



But how does that make any sense?? These notes don't ALWAYS work so I'm NEVER gonna play them? There just has to be a better solution to that problem, lol.



groverj3 said:


> In addition to being the "sound of blues."



This I think makes more sense. It's a sound, and if it's called for then ok. I hate blues though, lol...


----------



## groverj3 (Jan 20, 2021)

gnoll said:


> But how does that make any sense?? These notes don't ALWAYS work so I'm NEVER gonna play them? There just has to be a better solution to that problem, lol.
> 
> 
> 
> This I think makes more sense. It's a sound, and if it's called for then ok. I hate blues though, lol...


I'll rephrase. It limits, but doesn't remove the possibility of, the chance you'll play a "wrong note." Yeah, it's silly logic, but guitarists are a silly bunch.

I also find blues boring, but I can't improvise for shit in any style at all... Sooooo...


----------



## Thep (Jan 20, 2021)

I remember I used to think that Ed Roman was a credible and reliable source of guitar information. Back in the day, there weren't many guitar websites that were quite as impressive as his in terms of the sheer amount of pictures and variety. 

Used to think his custom brands were the cream of the crop for custom luthiers.


----------



## Fis:Destroyer (Jan 20, 2021)

I used to think I’d never be a “good” guitarist if I couldn’t downpick every chord in every song I played.


----------



## Demiurge (Jan 20, 2021)

Thep said:


> I remember I used to think that Ed Roman was a credible and reliable source of guitar information. Back in the day, there weren't many guitar websites that were quite as impressive as his in terms of the sheer amount of pictures and variety.
> 
> Used to think his custom brands were the cream of the crop for custom luthiers.



I found his site in the late 90's and thought the same; in that time, the size of the site and all the photos were certainly impressive and read as an equivalent to authority. At the same time, though, being a poor college student I simultaneously bristled at all the shit-talking of imports while dreaming about owning an ultra-quilted BCR like the ones all over his site. He had some interesting insights, but in hindsight I guess no one knows more about playing rubes than somebody who does just that.


----------



## groverj3 (Jan 20, 2021)

Thep said:


> I remember I used to think that Ed Roman was a credible and reliable source of guitar information. Back in the day, there weren't many guitar websites that were quite as impressive as his in terms of the sheer amount of pictures and variety.
> 
> Used to think his custom brands were the cream of the crop for custom luthiers.


I visited his store in the early 00s when I was in high school. I will say, they did have some cool stuff there, even though it was highly apparent that their in-house builds were iffy at best. The amount of shit-talking of brands he did to me, a 14 year old who he didn't even know, was kind of silly.


----------



## possumkiller (Jan 21, 2021)

80s metallica > 80s megadeth
90s megadeth > 90s metallica
00s-present just sucks


----------



## Nicki (Jan 21, 2021)

That I'd never want to own a Fender anything because I thought all Fenders sounded the same. And to be fair, they all did up until 7 or so years ago when they started putting out things that were actually different.

Now I own a Special Edition tele and a bassbreaker 112. Also want to buy an American Elite tele.


----------



## iamaom (Jan 21, 2021)

Dooky said:


> A stupid thing that I used to believe about guitar is that the type of wood it is made from significantly affects the tone.


Ah the bygone days of 2005 when a middle school me was trying to decide which metal $200 guitar to buy, crossing one off the list because KirkHammer69420 on ultimate guitar said to never buy a guitar with a basswood body with a maple fretboard or it would sound too bright.


----------



## coreysMonster (Jan 21, 2021)

iamaom said:


> Ah the bygone days of 2005 when a middle school me was trying to decide which metal $200 guitar to buy, crossing one off the list because KirkHammer69420 on ultimate guitar said to never buy a guitar with a basswood body with a maple fretboard or it would sound too bright.


The amount of stupid shit about guitars and music I believed because I read it online as a teen is staggering.


----------



## Dooky (Jan 21, 2021)

iamaom said:


> Ah the bygone days of 2005 when a middle school me was trying to decide which metal $200 guitar to buy, crossing one off the list because KirkHammer69420 on ultimate guitar said to never buy a guitar with a basswood body with a maple fretboard or it would sound too bright.


Haha! Yeah, cause that maple fretboard makes all the difference
It still pains me when I hear professional metal guitarists (who use high-end amps, pedals and pickups) talk about how their maple fretboard gives them a much more "snappy, bright tone" or that a mahogany body creates a "rich, warm tone". Such a load of BS.


----------



## spudmunkey (Jan 21, 2021)

That turning the gain, bass and treble all the way up and the mids all the way down was the "best" sound for everything.

[edit: ha, caught my typo mid-edit]


----------



## TedEH (Jan 21, 2021)

spudmunkey said:


> tremble


I always dial my amps for MAXIMUM TREMBLE.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 21, 2021)

Not sure if I mentioned it, but I thought baritone just inherently sounded heavier. If you tune a standard guitar and a baritone guitar to the same tuning, somehow the baritone would be like an octave lower or some shit

This is exactly why I thought so.

I thought the heavier guitar on the intro to these songs were a baritone and the second guitar was a normal one. I was convinced the guitarist in the band used a baritone and that the other guitarist used a Gibson Gothic Flying V, which obviously isn't a baritone.

So for a while I played ESP F baritones trying to get that heavy sound because in my head the 27 inch scale automatically meant it'd be heavier than a standard scale.


----------



## SexHaver420 (Jan 21, 2021)

Guitar is a better instrument than bass.


----------



## Mboogie7 (Jan 21, 2021)

Fenders and Gibson are stupid because all the non musicians know them and I want to be my “own” dude.

fast forward a few years and I hear a strat through a Vox AC30 (clean tonez of course) and was mind boggled. I ended up getting an American standard shortly after and still have it. It doesn’t get nearly as much playing time now as my AZ prestige covers cleans and a great distortion pretty well- perhaps I’ll mod it at some point and give it a new lease on life.


----------



## BornToLooze (Jan 22, 2021)

That as many people love super strats, I should try one. I have a Custom Shop ESP & Charvel, another import Chavel, a hot rodded Strat, and I play (up until one of the wires came loose and I haven't fixed it) the same Les Paul I always have, and an Epi Wilshire, because it feels like a Les Paul, but a lot lighter.



Mboogie7 said:


> Vox AC30 (clean tonez of course) and was mind boggled.



I saw a video of a dimed AC30, I think one of the old Phil X Fretted Americana videos, and I've never wanted a Vox so bad before. But then I remembered how much deafer I am after living somewhere where I could play a 212 6505 on like 6.


----------



## X1X (Jan 22, 2021)

Master of Puppets is harder than Live Wire


----------



## BornToLooze (Jan 22, 2021)

X1X said:


> Master of Puppets is harder than Live Wire



As someone who's posted about how I spent an embarrassingly long time not knowing how to alternate pick stuff, I still can't gallop to save my life. I can't do it either way nowadays, but I used to come closer to getting the rhythm right in Shortest Straw downpicking the gallops.


----------



## The Mirror (Jan 22, 2021)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Not sure if I mentioned it, but I thought baritone just inherently sounded heavier. If you tune a standard guitar and a baritone guitar to the same tuning, somehow the baritone would be like an octave lower or some shit



Technically you were correct on that. A baritone, due to the longer scale lenght, has different sound characteristics than a regular guitar. Similar to how a Bass sounds different from a 9-String guitar even though both play the same low notes.

Not "heavier" per-se, but different. I play lead guitar (7-String) in a band, in which the rhythm player uses a 27.7 baritone because it has a somewhat "twangier" sound than a 26.5 scale 7.

Add the fact that you can put on much heavier strings on a baritone and you'll indeed get a thicker sound out of it. 

There is a reason why Surf-Rock often used the combo of Regular + Baritone, to create a fatter sound.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 22, 2021)

The Mirror said:


> Technically you were correct on that. A baritone, due to the longer scale lenght, has different sound characteristics than a regular guitar. Similar to how a Bass sounds different from a 9-String guitar even though both play the same low notes.
> 
> Not "heavier" per-se, but different. I play lead guitar (7-String) in a band, in which the rhythm player uses a 27.7 baritone because it has a somewhat "twangier" sound than a 26.5 scale 7.
> 
> ...



The two guitars in the recordings weren't playing on the same frets. I thought somehow a baritone instantly sounds lower in pitch, which they don't.


----------



## possumkiller (Jan 22, 2021)

I remember being in my 20s and single when I joined here. I blew like 40k on guitars one year. I've had all kinds of really expensive pro gear and custom shop stuff. I remember seeing guys in their 30s and 40s posting NGD threads about how awesome some cheap ass low end import guitar was. I remember thinking what kind of loser actually buys that cheap garbage and convinces themselves it's any good. Now I have a wife and kids and no money to blow and am thankful to get half an hour to noodle every other day or so. My main guitars are low end cheap imports that really surprised me how great they are for the money.


----------



## 70Seven (Jan 22, 2021)

This is me in my teens and 20's: Tone comes from the pedals, amp isn't important and any guitar can sound great with the right pedals. So I had cheap guitars, very cheap amp (like a 1x8) and great pedals and was trying to sound like the Black Album, never worked out... So I bought more pedals...


----------



## bostjan (Jan 25, 2021)

I fell for the Monster cable nonsense. I thought that trendy cables would make me sound better. There's an atom of truth to it, but it's 99.99% bullshit.

The biggest misconception I had, though, was, as a teenager, assuming that I could find four or five like-minded musicians and form a bands, and we'd all be best buds, when, in reality, the general adage of two's company, but three's a crowd applies. If I get along great with a drummer and I get along great with a bassist, odds are ten to one that the drummer and the bassist won't get along with each other, and 100:1 that adding a singer means any two people will end up inexplicably hating each other.

Along those lines, it took forever for me to embrace the idea of a duo, then I started seeing bands like The Kills, The White Stripes, The Black Keys, etc., who did fine with just two people.


----------



## possumkiller (Jan 25, 2021)

I remember thinking the budget gear I had when I was starting out was garbage because it wasn't expensive (well it was pretty expensive for me but not ESP custom and Mesa Boogie expensive). I got rid of a lot of good gear just because I thought the price mattered. Then years later I found out most of my heroes recorded their best stuff with budget gear and some of them even with the same fucking budget gear I was using before!


----------



## Mathemagician (Jan 25, 2021)

spudmunkey said:


> That turning the gain, bass and treble all the way up and the mids all the way down was the "best" sound for everything.
> 
> [edit: ha, caught my typo mid-edit]





TedEH said:


> I always dial my amps for MAXIMUM TREMBLE.



Treeeeembllllllle! Let it riiiiip!

*Trivium intensifies*


----------



## lurè (Jan 25, 2021)

Spending 50 bucks for a 1m guitar cable is a necessary step to improve your tone.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 25, 2021)

possumkiller said:


> 80s metallica > 80s megadeth
> 90s megadeth > 90s metallica
> 00s-present just sucks



All Metallica > All Megadeth.

The way it should be


----------



## groverj3 (Jan 25, 2021)

bostjan said:


> I fell for the Monster cable nonsense. I thought that trendy cables would make me sound better. There's an atom of truth to it, but it's 99.99% bullshit.
> 
> The biggest misconception I had, though, was, as a teenager, assuming that I could find four or five like-minded musicians and form a bands, and we'd all be best buds, when, in reality, the general adage of two's company, but three's a crowd applies. If I get along great with a drummer and I get along great with a bassist, odds are ten to one that the drummer and the bassist won't get along with each other, and 100:1 that adding a singer means any two people will end up inexplicably hating each other.
> 
> Along those lines, it took forever for me to embrace the idea of a duo, then I started seeing bands like The Kills, The White Stripes, The Black Keys, etc., who did fine with just two people.


For real. It's so tough to find likeminded musicians, and to coordinate *anything*. Then, on top of that, to have them to actually have the chops to play things, and want to learn anything you write and contribute to it.


----------



## BenjaminW (Jan 25, 2021)

Gen-Z folk such as myself who listen to rock and metal are a thousand times cooler and superior than everyone around me because I listen to music with real talent and real instruments. 

I'm still that Gen-Z kid, but at least I've moved on from being the gatekeeping fuck I once was.


----------



## kamello (Jan 25, 2021)

BenjaminW said:


> Gen-Z folk such as myself who listen to rock and metal are a thousand times cooler and superior than everyone around me because I listen to music with real talent and real instruments.
> 
> I'm still that Gen-Z kid, but at least I've moved on from being the gatekeeping fuck I once was.



holy shit there is a Gen Z' in this forum?!

edit: there are Gen Z using forums?!


----------



## groverj3 (Jan 25, 2021)

BenjaminW said:


> Gen-Z folk such as myself who listen to rock and metal are a thousand times cooler and superior than everyone around me because I listen to music with real talent and real instruments.
> 
> I'm still that Gen-Z kid, but at least I've moved on from being the gatekeeping fuck I once was.


Hahaha, good to know that things haven't changed since us Millennials were the generational punching bag.


----------



## groverj3 (Jan 25, 2021)

kamello said:


> holy shit there is a Gen Z' in this forum?!
> 
> edit: there are Gen Z using forums?!


Right?! Aren't they supposed to be using TikTok to send questionable dancing videos to the Chinese government?


----------



## spudmunkey (Jan 26, 2021)

"This battery that's been in my pedal for 3 months has worked fine up until now...no reason to think it'll stop working in the middle of the gig I'm going to right now," as I glance at a new package of batteries and decide not to bring any because the bag is already heavy enough, or some other bullshit.


----------



## BornToLooze (Jan 26, 2021)

spudmunkey said:


> "This battery that's been in my pedal for 3 months has worked fine up until now...no reason to think it'll stop working in the middle of the gig I'm going to right now," as I glance at a new package of batteries and decide not to bring any because the bag is already heavy enough, or some other bullshit.



I have a Vox wah that sounds fairly cool when the battery starts dieing in t, but it's not reliable enough to keep a battery about this dead in it.


----------



## ThomasUV777 (Jan 26, 2021)

I used to think that humbuckers produced the high gain sound (you know, you plug it into a clean amp and it sounds like a Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier) and single coils produced a clean / jazz sound.


----------



## Pat (Jan 26, 2021)

I used to think death metal was easy to play because all they did was tremolo pick single notes


----------



## AwakenTheSkies (Jan 26, 2021)

I think I have a really funny one! When I was a kid like 11 or 12, I barely knew English but I really loved to watch musical instruments in the online stores like Thomann and such. For a while I thought the Gibson Les Paul Appetite for Destruction guitars were literally guitars that were built to be destroyed or smashed on stage for show. And then the specs like Flame Top or Fireburst I thought it meant the guitar had a flamethrower inside of it.


----------



## diagrammatiks (Jan 26, 2021)

I used to think there were speakers inside the head and more speakers inside the cab.

because otherwise why the fuck do they have the same fucking grill. seriously why.


----------



## TheBolivianSniper (Jan 26, 2021)

kamello said:


> holy shit there is a Gen Z' in this forum?!
> 
> edit: there are Gen Z using forums?!


----------



## chipchappy (Jan 26, 2021)

when i was a teen i was a dimebag fanboy so i totally bought into the whole "set neck/neck through guitars have the most sustain bruh" bullshit. AND all that solidstate Randall w a shit ton of outboard gear shit. My lord. 17 year old me read the dime articles in Guitar World like they were gospel. Yuck


----------



## BenjaminW (Jan 26, 2021)

groverj3 said:


> Right?! Aren't they supposed to be using TikTok to send questionable dancing videos to the Chinese government?


Oh yeah how could I forget? That’s my other favorite pastime!

For the record, I am not a TikTok celebrity.


----------



## spudmunkey (Jan 26, 2021)

That all music videos, televised performances, etc were all recorded from a live performance, and when a band didn't sound exactly like their tape, it meant they were 'bad'.


----------



## TedEH (Jan 26, 2021)

I feel like when I was younger I believed a lot of what I was listening to was just "raw talent" and not just good production. Studio "trickery" was for "fake" artists and "pop" stars and what have you. Edits and corrections were cheating.


----------



## budda (Jan 26, 2021)

AwakenTheSkies said:


> I think I have a really funny one! When I was a kid like 11 or 12, I barely knew English but I really loved to watch musical instruments in the online stores like Thomann and such. For a while I thought the Gibson Les Paul Appetite for Destruction guitars were literally guitars that were built to be destroyed or smashed on stage for show. And then the specs like Flame Top or Fireburst I thought it meant the guitar had a flamethrower inside of it.



This is just awesome.


----------



## spudmunkey (Jan 26, 2021)

That the sound from a "talk box" came from some specialized playing technique, and not from technology. Oh, and I'm sure it's ben said before, but that pedals weren't a thing...any time a guitiar changed sound, it was all from the controls on the guitar.


----------



## Science_Penguin (Jan 26, 2021)

I'm gonna play Flying V's and Explorers my whole career and that's gonna be my thing! None of those boring shapes like what Fender puts out.

Oh, more than half of my favorite tones come from Strats and Telecasters? ...oh... I might wanna rethink that...


----------



## BenjaminW (Jan 26, 2021)

spudmunkey said:


> Oh, and I'm sure it's ben said before, but that pedals weren't a thing...any time a guitiar changed sound, it was all from the controls on the guitar.


I mean you’re not entirely wrong.


----------



## akinari (Jan 27, 2021)

Science_Penguin said:


> I'm gonna play Flying V's and Explorers my whole career and that's gonna be my thing! None of those boring shapes like what Fender puts out.
> 
> Oh, more than half of my favorite tones come from Strats and Telecasters? ...oh... I might wanna rethink that...



You could always go the Dylan Carlson route and put strat and tele pickups in them anyways! Something I've thought about doing many times.


----------



## TheBolivianSniper (Jan 27, 2021)

Science_Penguin said:


> I'm gonna play Flying V's and Explorers my whole career and that's gonna be my thing! None of those boring shapes like what Fender puts out.
> 
> Oh, more than half of my favorite tones come from Strats and Telecasters? ...oh... I might wanna rethink that...



p90 p90 p90 p90

83 explorer III will always have my attention especially in camo 

that would be fucking sick for my project rn since it's all clean and crunch tones


----------



## Mathemagician (Jan 27, 2021)

Science_Penguin said:


> I'm gonna play Flying V's and Explorers my whole career and that's gonna be my thing! None of those boring shapes like what Fender puts out.
> 
> Oh, more than half of my favorite tones come from Strats and Telecasters? ...oh... I might wanna rethink that...





akinari said:


> You could always go the Dylan Carlson route and put strat and tele pickups in them anyways! Something I've thought about doing many times.



Michael Romeo style double Flying V with SSS on one side and the two tele pickups on the other.


----------



## p0ke (Jan 27, 2021)

I guess before I started playing guitar myself, I thought the "normal" sound of electric guitars was a distorted tone and for clean tone you'd need an acoustic simulator  Also I didn't realize that electric guitars are made out of wood, I don't know, I guess I thought they were plastic or something.


----------



## _MonSTeR_ (Jan 27, 2021)

I used to think that rich, famous players would play the guitar that they thought was the best rather than the guitar that was made by the company that offered them the best deal...


----------



## MFB (Jan 27, 2021)

Mathemagician said:


> Michael Romeo style double Flying V with SSS on one side and the two tele pickups on the other.



Say what now? I've never seen Romeo use anything but his Caparison or the old purple/black M-IIs?


----------



## budda (Jan 27, 2021)

Before i was playing guitar and on the internet, i didnt realize that there were multiple models of amp, or that the gear in music videos wasnt plugged in.


----------



## bostjan (Jan 27, 2021)

Mathemagician said:


> Michael Romeo style double Flying V with SSS on one side and the two tele pickups on the other.


Wrong Italian American guitar shredder named Michael maybe?

If I was way better at guitar, I'd be tempted to change my name to Michael Angelo Romeo Batio Schenker, just to confuse the crap out of everyone. But with my skills set, I'm more like Rand Paul Gilbert Godfried.


----------



## Seabeast2000 (Jan 27, 2021)

budda said:


> Before i was playing guitar and on the internet, i didnt realize that there were multiple models of amp, or that the gear in music videos wasnt plugged in.


No joke. Almost everything was unplugged and not wireless back in the old days. Wow studio recording quality on a beach or top of a skyscraper.


----------



## chipchappy (Jan 27, 2021)

budda said:


> or that the gear in music videos wasnt plugged in.


 Musicians discovering this for the first time is like kids finding out santa isnt real. Its a rite of passage


----------



## nightflameauto (Jan 27, 2021)

Speaking of not plugged in. . . 

. . . when you first discover that those massive stacks of speakers on stage are either empty cabs or just backups and either one of them is mic'ed or the actual sound is being produced by a little combo amp behind the stacks is one of those massive shock moments. I know some bands run everything wired up, but it's so uncommon to almost be unicorn territory.


----------



## budda (Jan 27, 2021)

nightflameauto said:


> Speaking of not plugged in. . .
> 
> . . . when you first discover that those massive stacks of speakers on stage are either empty cabs or just backups and either one of them is mic'ed or the actual sound is being produced by a little combo amp behind the stacks is one of those massive shock moments. I know some bands run everything wired up, but it's so uncommon to almost be unicorn territory.



Watching norma jean cart 2x 412s strapped to dollies was a sight haha (2 flights of stairs no elevator). They sounded great too.

I dont miss lugging gear though.


----------



## Mathemagician (Jan 27, 2021)

MFB said:


> Say what now? I've never seen Romeo use anything but his Caparison or the old purple/black M-IIs?





bostjan said:


> Wrong Italian American guitar shredder named Michael maybe?
> 
> If I was way better at guitar, I'd be tempted to change my name to Michael Angelo Romeo Batio Schenker, just to confuse the crap out of everyone. But with my skills set, I'm more like Rand Paul Gilbert Godfried.



I was thinking of Mr. Batio you gents are correct!


----------



## _MonSTeR_ (Jan 27, 2021)

chipchappy said:


> ... is like kids finding out santa isnt real.



Wait. 


What ??!??!!!?!?


----------



## Gmork (Jan 27, 2021)

When I started guitar at 11 yrs old and for Years until I was almost 20 I thought that all death metal was played with power chords, because it sounded so heavy, HAD TO Be power chords right lol I always wondered how they played it so fast.
Of course once I actually started to learn/play it myself, only then did I realize single notes can be made to sound heavy lmao


----------



## Wildebeest (Jan 27, 2021)

In the early 90's I thought you had to be Italian American to get an Ibanez endorsement.

I was wrong because Frank Gambale is actually Italian Australian.


----------



## mdeeRocks (Jan 28, 2021)

Wildebeest said:


> In the early 90's I thought you had to be Italian American to get an Ibanez endorsement.
> 
> I was wrong because Frank Gambale is actually Italian Australian.


I genuinely thought that Ibanez was Italian brand.

Starting on acoustic thing - that actually got me. I started on bad acoustic with high action and it broke my technique early on due to tension required to play that thing. Took a year to get rid of bad habits.
Also, you need to practice slow to play fast (upping metronome one tick a day thing) .


----------



## Splenetic (Jan 28, 2021)

Italian? The fuck?





It was clearly a suave Spaniard who decided to make hand carved guitars between serenading sultry Spanish women. Possibly related to Antonio Banderas. He also may have had an enemy named..... Fernandes. That's what I thought at least...


Also Jackson guitars were clearly made by/for the Jackson 5.

....Schecter was an angry German guy that decided to take out his anger on the world by making baseball bat guitars (hey...it was the early days.)

ESP gave you E.S.P. ....amplified if you watch ESPN. [LTD limited said powers]


You should only play Agile guitars if you're a gymnast or a ballerina.


----------



## valkyrie (Jan 29, 2021)

When I started playing my friend told me the pickup poles where there for making drum sounds during solos, took a few years to realize how retarded that was. 

Oh, I also used to believe in "tonewoods"


----------



## p0ke (Jan 29, 2021)

mdeeRocks said:


> I genuinely thought that Ibanez was Italian brand.



Well the Ibanez name originally comes from a Spanish luthier so you're not far off  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvador_Ibáñez


----------



## Splenetic (Jan 29, 2021)

OMG so i may have been right all along!


----------



## p0ke (Jan 29, 2021)

Splenetic said:


> OMG so i may have been right all along!


Pretty close, actually  Probably had nothing to do with Antonio Banderas or Fernandes, but the rest is accurate (the women weren't documented but he had two sons, so ... )


----------



## bostjan (Jan 29, 2021)

I used to think that the brands on guitars actually owned the factories that made the guitars, not that Samick, Cor-tek, WMI, and FujiGen, made the vast majority of them and then they were rebranded. As if Salvador Ibanez's great grandson was running a factory somewhere in Spain, building hundreds of thousands of guitars there...

Along those lines, I also was one of the ignoramuses who thought BC Rich NJ's were named after New Jersey, not because someone told me that, but because I had just assumed.


----------



## Splenetic (Jan 29, 2021)

Oh yeah, my world came apart when I realized the NJ thing. 

Then I thought about it, and realized it's probably for the better. OOOOH BURN. 

(pls don't hate me NJ peeps, I'm just kidding)


----------



## BenjaminW (Jan 29, 2021)

Splenetic said:


> ESP gave you E.S.P. ....amplified if you watch ESPN.


Damn, I was hoping I'd make Monday Night Football more interesting with this!


----------



## groverj3 (Jan 29, 2021)

Rosewood is inherently inferior to ebony because all the abused gear on the wall at the local GC was dried out shit and looked terrible.


----------



## Splenetic (Jan 29, 2021)

BenjaminW said:


> Damn, I was hoping I'd make Monday Night Football more interesting with this!



No no....you see, every NFL football field has a massive warehouse full of their own ESP's underneath it to deflect our ESP's. Those folks ain't suckers, back in the day.... soon as they saw Kerry King with an ESP wearing a Raiders jersey they knew what was up.


----------



## pahulkster (Jan 29, 2021)

Thought all the back line gear was real. I was actually disappointed by that one because playing through 50 cabs still seems really cool. At least Matt Pike keeps things real.


----------



## BMFan30 (Jan 30, 2021)

I used to think that Guitar/Bass Cab IR's were made the same way as reverb space IR's LOL


----------



## Pollaxe Music Instruments (Jan 31, 2021)

When I was five years old, I used to think that in order to play in lower tunings you gotta buy a guitar which specifically made for that tuning!


----------



## XC18 (Jan 31, 2021)

I used to think that the metric for being a good guitar player meant being able to play things most other people couldn't. Speed/complexity etc.


----------



## X1X (Jan 31, 2021)

This thread constantly reminds me of Dave in this video:


----------



## Musiscience (Jan 31, 2021)

groverj3 said:


> Rosewood is inherently inferior to ebony because all the abused gear on the wall at the local GC was dried out shit and looked terrible.



This! It took me a single Suhr to go "oh! So that's what rosewood was supposed to be all along? Damn..."


----------



## Dayn (Jan 31, 2021)

groverj3 said:


> Rosewood is inherently inferior to ebony because all the abused gear on the wall at the local GC was dried out shit and looked terrible.


Whenever I oil the fretboard of my RG2228 and let it glisten in the sun, I'm always dazzled by the depth and vibrancy of rosewood.

I still prefer the feel of ebony, though.


----------



## BMFan30 (Jan 31, 2021)

XC18 said:


> I used to think that the metric for being a good guitar player meant being able to play things most other people couldn't. Speed/complexity etc.


To be honest, I think a lot of us thought that too when we started practicing guitar. I probably translates to most instruments as well when you're starting out.


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## BornToLooze (Jan 31, 2021)

When I started playing guitar, I practiced standing up because rockstars don't sit down on stage, but when I took guitar lessons my teacher made a big deal about how you have to practice sitting down. So I started practicing sitting down, and practicing scales to a metronome bumping it up one BPM at a time, and I fucking hated it. And when I joined a band, all that stuff I learned sitting down I couldn't do because the guitar wasn't in the same spot, and the drummer wasn't perfect like a metronome, but I was having fun again.

I'm not the best guitar player by any means but you know what, I will rock the fuck out in my bedroom, and act like this

And I have more goddamned fun now than I did when I first learned how to bang out power chords.


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## Dayn (Jan 31, 2021)

I'm not sure it necessarily counts, but just last week I changed some settings on my interface and now I can record with about 3ms of latency instead of twenty times that.

It turns out that I can hit the beat pretty squarely and consistently while recording if I try - I was just a goddamn bloody idiot that never bothered to set my system up properly for the past five years. So much anguish over my own stupidity trying to adjust my playing to suit the latency...


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