# ENGL (Powerball) Tubing/Mods Thread



## Pedrojoca (Apr 14, 2011)

*Intro:* Hey people! After participating in a few posts wich relate to this, i decided to put as much info as i can, with your help. 
The main topic is the Powerball and Powerball II, but the info can be useful for other amps as well.
The Powerball and Fireball (yeah, balls) are two amp series that really get bashed a lot around the internet, and yeah, I agree (wtf  ). I'm not going t use the crappy videos around the internet.... (and yes, there are a couple that really make you want to hate that amp forever, and I just don't hate it because I already had it when I watched the vid  ). It's a tricky amp.
I have got to admit that the decent tones I used to get out of the amp were still feeling too fizzy. Let's say, I was trying to play "single stringed" riffs, each note you played would strongly say "roar", but at the same time, "zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz". You get the point. 

*Thread part that doesn't include me talking like a moaning bitch*: After a lot of research, i discovered that people were noticing huge differences after retubing the amp, most of them, positively. I instantly started researching about tubes and their effect. Here's what's important so far.

Mods/Tube Combinations:

-EL34 Mod (by adadglgmut)
This mod makes the amp run with 4 EL34 power tubes. Description from the topic: 


> IT SOUNDS SOOOOOOOOO MUCH BEEETTER!
> 
> Especially on the lo gain channel. Its kind of got a high gain crunchy sound that I can only describe as soldano-y. Steroid-pumped marshally. Really very different than the way it sounded before. Waaaay more organic.
> 
> ...



-12at7 Mod (guitarno and vanhendrix)
The objective here, is to reduce the gain (to be able to get it past 12 o' clock, at least), among with the fizz and compression using 12at7 preamp tubes, which have fewer gain that the 12ax7.

Guitarno put a JJ 12at7 in V6 and a TAD 12at7 premium balanced in V8. The other 


> The tonal change is amazing!!
> There is A LOT more clarity and vitality in sound! The strong compression is nearly complete gone with simultaneously the same amount of gain as before (you have to rise the preamp-gain a little higher).
> In clean-mode of channel1 almost no change is hearable, crunch-mode now is a 'true' crunch, and not 'gentle heavy' as before. It sounds much more vintage than before.
> The difference between the two gain-modes of channel2 (often described with channel 3 and 4) now is bigger: low-gain mode (ch3) is much more classic-rock style than before, with more mid-punch and clarity. High gain mode (ch4) is fat and modern like before, but also with more clarity and much more tonal definition! In both modes in high-gain settings the high-freqency 'hiss' isn't anymore existent. Very congenial!
> ...



Vanhendrix got the best results with 12at7 in V5 and V6. The other tubes remain the same.


> More useable gain. Opens up the amp considerably from stock. The stock ch 4 is gone entirely, moving the original 3 into the 4th spot. The current ch 3 exists in that wonderful gain stage between lacklustre crunch and uber super brootz. This amp now goes from clean to brutal, and most importantly, does everything in between.
> 
> 
> I'm so pleased with this mod that it almost warrants a NAD.



-5751 Mod (by LordOVchaoS)
This is also a preamp retubing mod, with a 5751 in V6, Tung Sol (12ax7) in V5 and a balanced 12ax7LPS in V8.


> My Powerball kicked ass! The 5751's added mids, depth, and just made the amp sound bigger. This setup killed all the "compressed" and "solid state sounding" stereotypes!!! Cut through like a chainsaw and was very responsive!



-Basic retubing 
Even if you don't want to change the gain amount and all that, you can just buy yourself four 12ax7 (or ECC83S, as JJ call it) from one of the recommended brands by a lot of users (suggestions are welcome here): JJ, Tung Sol, 9th Gen Chinese, Sovtek, Groove Tubes...
Believe me, you'll like it, and it shouldn't be too expensive.

-Power Section Retubing
I don't have much info in this section but everyone seems to think that after you retube the power section you get a nicer tone, as ENGL default tubes kind of suck. Also, when biased (as it comes stone cold), you should notice a huge improvement.

---------------------------

Please try to keep this alive as a LOT of people might find the info here really useful. I strongly recommend these "mods", try them and give us your opinion, and i'm not talking only about powerball, if you give me useful info, i'll include it in the post.
  enjoy


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## Pedrojoca (Apr 14, 2011)

Update: Just tried the following:

V5- TAD 12at7 V6, V7 and V8- JJ ECC83S

I noticed that a bit of the fizz is gone, the gain was reduced, i can now get it past 12 o' clock easily with clarity and the overall sound seems a bit more raw (good thing). So far, so good. I'm going to keep updating this as i'm testing some tubes today.


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## Pedrojoca (Apr 14, 2011)

Another Update: Tried the following

V5- JJ 12at7 V6 and V7- JJ 12ax7 V8- TAD 12at7

I didn't notice a huge difference from the previous setup, I can't be sure without the clips but i think I didn't like it as much as the previous tube setup. I will confirm that later, maybe it's because the input tube is now a JJ instead of TAD.


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## Pedrojoca (Apr 16, 2011)

bump


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## Stealthdjentstic (Apr 16, 2011)

Cool idea man


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## Pedrojoca (Apr 16, 2011)

Final Update by me: 

Got my best results with the following:
V5- Tad 12at7 V6 and V7- JJ ECC803S V8- JJ ECC83S Balanced

I'm surprised that the the 12at7 in V8 (PI) position didn't make any good for me.


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## vanhendrix (Apr 17, 2011)

So did you try the AT in just the V6 spot? I'd recommend the crap out of it before you seal up your amp for good. I didn't like how the V5 spot lowered the overall gain, as it weakened the first two channels

Also, kudos for keeping this info up. I was mainly posting in the other thread so that people googling powerball mods would come up with our results. Apparently there isn't a lot of info out there about modding this amp, so why not blaze a trail right?


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## Pedrojoca (Apr 17, 2011)

true man, seems like you share my interest 

i'll try that, but i'm really confused as I already had 4 ECC81 Engl tubes that came with the amp. At least 1 of them was messed up but I always wonder about the "millions" of combinations i can do.

PS: I ordered 3x JJ ECC83S (1 balanced) tubes. I recieved 1 balanced ECC83S and 2 ECC803S. Is there any difference besides the long plate?


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## noob_pwn (Apr 17, 2011)

i tried the 12AT7 mod, in V2 and the phase inverter. Totally transformed the amp, much much much better


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## vanhendrix (Apr 18, 2011)

Also, in the original post, I didn't like the AT in the V5 spot, only the V6. So you're a little off there, if you could be so kind as to change that I'd be much obliged


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## Curt (Apr 18, 2011)

Very cool thread, dude.

I'll take this info into consideration if ever I decide to pick up a powerball.


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## Dead Undead (Apr 18, 2011)

Don't fix it if it ain't broke. 

Interesting mods though. I know some people that might find this useful.


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## warlock7strEMG (Apr 18, 2011)

According to Lordovchaos, retubing the Powerballs power section with 5881's also helps in the mids department, brings some upper mids that make it cut thru better and also rounds off some of the fizzy highs


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## Pedrojoca (Apr 18, 2011)

i can't edit it, dunno why, let's just keep adding info.

so vanhendrix, you got your best results with: V5- 12ax7 V6- 12at7 V7- 12ax7 V8- 12ax7 ??

what about that same tube setup, but with a 12at7 in V8, better or worse?


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## Pedrojoca (Apr 18, 2011)

UPDATE: Got some more info, not sure about this, though.

nakedzen said:


> DONT TOUCH JJ TUBES FOR THE POWERBALL!!!! PLEASE trust me on that one. I ran all JJ on the recommendation from a few people (who didn't own the amp). I ran them for about 6 months. Lead tones were shit, the rhythm was buzzy (sounded like pissed off wasps in can ) and the clean tone was GONE. So I got pissed off one night at a gig and decided they were coming out.
> 
> I ordered up a new set of ENGL preamp tubes from Thomann. Nice and cheap - and I know someone's going to chime in saying they're rebranded tubes - but they work and work WELL! Seriously, the ENGL branded tubes are great little things!
> 
> ...



not quite sure about this


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## vanhendrix (Apr 18, 2011)

Pedrojoca said:


> i can't edit it, dunno why, let's just keep adding info.
> 
> so vanhendrix, you got your best results with: V5- 12ax7 V6- 12at7 V7- 12ax7 V8- 12ax7 ??
> 
> what about that same tube setup, but with a 12at7 in V8, better or worse?



This is correct. I only bothered to get one AT7 because I knew exactly what changes I was looking to make. I only wanted to change the gain on those two channels, while having the rest of the amp function how it did before. I knew right away that I'd hit the money combination.

Edit:

Also, my settings are in the database for anyone who wants to try them after changing that tube. Sort of a jumping off point


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## Pedrojoca (Apr 18, 2011)

i used to have the preamp tubes totally f***** up, so i was only supposed to buy 4x12ax7. When I read your post i thought that apart from making it sound right, i could make it sound better. For a minimum sense of tightness, i had to get the gain at 3 o' clock, and that brings up some fizz.

vanhendrix, I tried your setup with:

V5- JJ ECC803S V6- JJ 12at7 V7- JJ ECC803S V8- JJ ECC83S

I can also switch the JJ 12at7 with a TAD 12at7, but as Tube Amp Doctor sent me 2xJJ ECC803S and 1xJJ ECC83S balanced (instead of the 3x JJ ECC83S [1 balanced] i asked for) i don't think i'm getting the same sound as you are.

So far, the best combination for me was:

V5- JJ ECC803S V6- JJ 12at7 V7- JJ ECC803S V8- JJ ECC83S


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## vanhendrix (Apr 18, 2011)

Pedrojoca said:


> i used to have the preamp tubes totally f***** up, so i was only supposed to buy 4x12ax7. When I read your post i thought that apart from making it sound right, i could make it sound better. For a minimum sense of tightness, i had to get the gain at 3 o' clock, and that brings up some fizz.
> 
> vanhendrix, I tried your setup with:
> 
> ...



Yeah i'm not sure we are talking about the same thing. I have the Engl branded AXs (ECC 83) in the other slots, and a Mesa branded AT (ECC 81) in the V6 spot. I really have no idea what other tubes you're talking about.

Also, I had a bad preamp tube in the V5 spot about a year after buying my powerball. It was replaced with one of the extra AXs that came with it. Should be identical... but now that I look at the other extra tube that I still have, the box says it is "FQ", which only means that it was selected for quality....I don't however have the box of the AX that is currently in there. Does anyone know if the powerball comes with two FQ tubes?

This shit is nonsense. Whatever mystery tubes are in there work right now, I hope nothing ever goes wrong.


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## Pedrojoca (Apr 19, 2011)

van hendrix, i just discovered that each ECC803S, as opposed to regular ECC83S, remove 10% of gain, that's why i was trying your technique and getting lack of gain, after a few tube mixes, i found a really nice combination, the amp sounds a lot more raw now, the high end seems more round but still agressive as hell. After all this, i went from, 'i wanna sell this' -.- to 'i love this amp'. Yeah, you can flame as much as you want people (  lulz), but this f****** rocks. Like someone said before, after the EL34 mod, it's absolutely a NAD.


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## vanhendrix (Apr 19, 2011)

Yeah I just talked to my guitar guy. I have a regular non-FQ AX7 in the V5 spot, instead of what is "supposed to be in there". Who cares, it works


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## vanhendrix (Jun 12, 2011)

Bump for a quick anecdote:

My band is currently in hiatus while our singer tours with another band (jerk...), so I have my powerball at home for the first time in a while. First thing I noticed about it being here is that the treble is absolutely GRATING. It was scratching and just horrible. I turned the treble and the presence all the way off, and began switching tubes around again - no change.

I was fiddling around with my friend's Eq pedal just to see if I could get rid of that horrible sound, meanwhile searching the web for something to replace my no-longer-beloved powerball. And then I accidentally left my amp on while i went and had dinner.

Folks, this is not new to me and it's something I SHOULD have remembered. My amp (maybe this is normal for them, maybe not) takes at LEAST an hour to warm up and start really cookin'. I had been getting fed up with it too fast and turning it off before it ever reached its full potential ever since I'd brought it home. Hell, I even used to phone ahead to get someone to turn on my amp before my band would jam just so that it would be ready when I got there. So when I got back from dinner I noticed the red LEDs blazing and decided to pick up the guitar I'd left beside it. Problem solved. Treble controls are back to where they were before and everything sounds perfect.


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## Pedrojoca (Jun 12, 2011)

weird, mine doesn't need to warm up that much to get rid of the harsh high end (yes, it does exist in my amp, but just at low volumes or in the first 5 minutes). Maybe it has something to do with Powerball I and II (mine is II). 

The thing is, with the new tubes, when the amp gets past the fizz point (the fizz point are the first 5 minutes of playing with 10/15 minutes of warming up in standby) I ABSOLUTELY LOVE THE SOUND! The compression is so much f*cking lower with the new tubes, and so is the fizz!

I am GAAAAASSSING like crazy for the EL34 mod, i'll even call it a NAD when i get it 

EDIT: I'd love to try the 5881 mod, but i'm not sure if you just bias it or you need to replace a resistor...


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## vanhendrix (Jun 12, 2011)

Pedrojoca said:


> weird, mine doesn't need to warm up that much to get rid of the harsh high end (yes, it does exist in my amp, but just at low volumes or in the first 5 minutes). Maybe it has something to do with Powerball I and II (mine is II).
> 
> The thing is, with the new tubes, when the amp gets past the fizz point (the fizz point are the first 5 minutes of playing with 10/15 minutes of warming up in standby) I ABSOLUTELY LOVE THE SOUND! The compression is so much f*cking lower with the new tubes, and so is the fizz!
> 
> ...



So you ended up with just a mishmash of preamp tubes then? While switching mine back to stock I remembered how much I loved channel 3's sound and HATED channel 4's. If they come out with the powerball III that just has two channel 3s with separate gain knobs, they'd have a much better product IMO.

I'm really digging the variety I get out of the amp now though. I have 4 great channels now, although I find that I need to use specific guitars for specific sounds. My metal guitars never sounded good clean, but now they actually have a purpose outside of them being pointy: I actually need the high-output pickups to tighten up channel 4. It used to be that the guitars that sounded best clean ended up sounding best on all 3 of my usable channels.

Edit: and don't you need to replace stuff with the EL34 mod? I'd try routing your preamp through something with EL34s before you try something crazy like that. We tried mine through my friend's Roadster (which he put 34s in) and it sounded badass in a Nickelback kinda way (say what you will, they have great tone). But it would have been too loose for what I want. I'd be pretty upset if I had just paid X amount of dollars and it sounded like that, because it'd be annoying to get it back to normal


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## Pedrojoca (Jun 12, 2011)

i didn't really get the part about a mishmash of preamp tubes 

could you explain that?


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## vanhendrix (Jun 12, 2011)

Pedrojoca said:


> i didn't really get the part about a mishmash of preamp tubes
> 
> could you explain that?




I was just wondering what your magic combination of preamp tubes ended up being. I just ended up changing the V6 to get what I was looking for


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## Pedrojoca (Jun 12, 2011)

and you shall wonder for a long long time.....

until now...

it's a weird combination, it's

V5- JJ ECC803S V6- ENGL 12ax7 V7- JJ ECC803S V8- JJ 12ax7 balanced

i tried swapping some of them, like the V5 and V7 for regular ECC83S, instead of ECC803S and it just wasn't the same thing, the ECC803S have 10% less gain that the ECC83S each. 
This was really pure luck, the ECC803S were a mistake, TAD sent them instead of ECC83S (12ax7) and they ended up being awesome. 

Oh... and one more thing.... tube really are weird. I tried switching the ENGL 12ax7 in V6 for another Engl 12ax7 and it sounded different, really different...


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## vanhendrix (Jun 12, 2011)

Pedrojoca said:


> and you shall wonder for a long long time.....
> 
> until now...
> 
> ...



Yeah man, these tubes are fubar. I blew my original V5 ax7, so I have the engl standard ax7 in there now (not the super uber-balanced awesome stock or whatever), so we'll probably get different results no matter what.

I do find it interesting that you left the stock tube in the V6 spot, considering that's the one responsible for the compression and junk on channels 3 and 4. My main sound is still channel 3, but it's way more "marshall" now, because i'm more into rock tones. Channel 4 is there for when i need the brootz though.

Edit:

Also, my guitar tech (slash addiction enabler) gave me a good tip a while ago about warming up your amp: Put it on standby for the first couple minutes (as per the requirements) then just turn your master volume off and take it off standby. With the amp fully on, it'll warm up way faster and be ready to use sooner.


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## Pedrojoca (Jun 12, 2011)

yeah, i guess that whatever the tubes are, we'll always get different results haha.

but i didn't leave the V6 there. the tube that was originally in V6 had nasty compression. I tried all four of them, and this one didn't seem to bring up the compression. weird stuff...

believe me, in all the combinations i tried, this was the best one. The one that you use didn't give me anything cloose to br00tz on the 4th channel. hell, it wasn't even enough for metal... man, tubes are weird


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## vanhendrix (Jun 12, 2011)

Pedrojoca said:


> yeah, i guess that whatever the tubes are, we'll always get different results haha.
> 
> but i didn't leave the V6 there. the tube that was originally in V6 had nasty compression. I tried all four of them, and this one didn't seem to bring up the compression. weird stuff...
> 
> believe me, in all the combinations i tried, this was the best one. The one that you use didn't give me anything cloose to br00tz on the 4th channel. hell, it wasn't even enough for metal... man, tubes are weird



Well I have my gain pretty high on that channel now, like 9.5 (out of the 11 notches) instead of 5.5 where it was with the old tube. And I also need to use my metal guitars to properly squeeze out the metal (derp).

Also, I'm doing this new thing where i hooked an ernie ball volume up post-pedalboard but before my amp so that it only controls the level of my guitar and effects before it hits the preamp. It basically acts like a gain knob that i can set with my foot. I find that I often use it to clean up my channel 3 rock tone, to get into the "classic rock" -type area. I roll the pedal back a bit and just leave it. Effectively creating "channel 2.5" that is unhindered by any effects that I like to use before my amp.

Also, did changing your tubes quiet your amp a bit? I noticed a HUGE difference. I have the noise gate off for everything except shows now


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## Pedrojoca (Jun 12, 2011)

ah! then it COULD do metal, maybe even br00tz... it's just that i thought it would do it at 12 o'clock or whatever (gain knob)

And yes, i'm glad you mentioned it, the amp is really quieter!


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## vanhendrix (Jun 12, 2011)

Pedrojoca said:


> ah! then it COULD do metal, maybe even br00tz... it's just that i thought it would do it at 12 o'clock or whatever (gain knob)
> 
> And yes, i'm glad you mentioned it, the amp is really quieter!




Yeah I don't mind having my gain high like that with the new tube. It's better for me because I used to have it at noon (with the ax7) and would never ever ever go past. What good is an entire half-knob-sweep of useless gain?

Plus now if I feel like I need that extra push over the cliff, turning it up to 11 actually works.


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## Ryan-ZenGtr- (Jun 12, 2011)

@ EL-34 promotion! 



/


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## Pedrojoca (Jun 13, 2011)

Ryan-ZenGtr- said:


> @ EL-34 promotion!
> 
> 
> 
> /



haha so true! it's just that it brings different (warmer - less harsh) sounds to the table!



vanhendrix said:


> Yeah I don't mind having my gain high like that with the new tube. It's better for me because I used to have it at noon (with the ax7) and would never ever ever go past. What good is an entire half-knob-sweep of useless gain?
> 
> Plus now if I feel like I need that extra push over the cliff, turning it up to 11 actually works.



maaaaaaaan, your're gasing me up! the tubes are right here in front of me... i just feel like poping the 12at7 in there are cranking the gain  

i just don't want to unscrew all that crap, think of the combination, fin the tubes, pop them in, screw it back, let it warm up.........


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## vanhendrix (Jun 13, 2011)

Pedrojoca said:


> haha so true! it's just that it brings different (warmer - less harsh) sounds to the table!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The preamp tubes don't really need to warm up. As long as you don't touch the powertubes, you can do the swap with it pre-heated. Easy peasy


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## Pedrojoca (Jun 14, 2011)

say whaaaa? 

that's awesome!!! i had no ideia i could swap them with the amp in standby!

Oh boy, i'm so trying this.. thanks a million


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## Skin Coffin (Jun 14, 2011)

Great info, dude. If I ever grab a Powerball, I shall read this entire thread! 
Sticky this!


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## vanhendrix (Jun 14, 2011)

Pedrojoca said:


> say whaaaa?
> 
> that's awesome!!! i had no ideia i could swap them with the amp in standby!
> 
> Oh boy, i'm so trying this.. thanks a million




Hey now, I never said standby. DO NOT DO THAT. _Turn off and unplug the power before you touch anything inside of an electronic device_. I'm just sayin that in the 2 seconds it takes to switch the preamp tube, the powertubes won't cool off much before you fire it back up, if you had already warmed it up.


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## Pedrojoca (Jun 15, 2011)

ahh.... hmmm but doesn't turning off the amp e turning it back on that quickly harm the power tubes?


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## vanhendrix (Jun 15, 2011)

Pedrojoca said:


> ahh.... hmmm but doesn't turning off the amp e turning it back on that quickly harm the power tubes?



Not sure, I've never read that and I've done tons of off/on switching. One time I accidentally turned it fully on without going to standby first (after it was pre-heated) and all 4 tube indicators lit up. So I shut it off and turned it on properly and everything was fine.

Come to think of it, these power tubes have lasted almost 2 years now. Not bad


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## Pedrojoca (Jun 15, 2011)

when my power tubes are gone, i'll mod the amp to EL34 

and if i can't find any amp tech to do it.... SED or Ruby 6l6


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## vanhendrix (Jun 15, 2011)

Pedrojoca said:


> when my power tubes are gone, i'll mod the amp to EL34
> 
> and if i can't find any amp tech to do it.... SED or Ruby 6l6



*IF* i can bias the amp for 34s without changing capacitor nonsense, I'll probably try that out when I need new tubes as well. We'll report back to this thread with results!

Gonna have to change the LEDs if i go to 34s though....need blue


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## Pedrojoca (Jun 15, 2011)

i doubt you can bias it to el34... the amp can barely be biased to the recommended range for 6l6 as it is supposed to be cold as sh#t


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## vanhendrix (Jun 15, 2011)

Lame. I'm just gonna buy a different poweramp if I want 34s


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## Pedrojoca (Jun 15, 2011)

meh, won't be the same thing


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## snigloid (Jul 25, 2011)

Well I just got a powerball and got great tone from it it just has a bit of hiss to it, so if I want to bring out the mids and clarity and lose some gain do one of these mods?


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## vanhendrix (Jul 26, 2011)

snigloid said:


> Well I just got a powerball and got great tone from it it just has a bit of hiss to it, so if I want to bring out the mids and clarity and lose some gain do one of these mods?



Well there are a few things you could do, I'll start with the easiest:

- Roll off the presence (this is my least favourite knob anyways)

- Don't be afraid to run your mids at 11 (mine stay like that)

- Let the amp warm up for a LONG time before using it (like an hour) to get a less fizzy sound. Or, after the 1 minute period mandatory warmup period, turn your amp fully on (off standby) but don't use it for around 10-20 mins.

- Lastly, my mod is just replacing the V6 preamp tube, which is the second from the right, when looking at the amp from the back. I put a Mesa AT7 in to replace the higher gain AX7. This will change the gain structure of channels 3 and 4, but leave the others intact.

A note on this: While it may entirely be in my head, this weekend I A/B-ed my mod with the original AX7 in there, with an attempt to get similar gain levels. So with the at7 and the gain on 11, i get to the same gain area as the ax7 with the gain on 6. The difference is that the at7 is pushed into this gain stage, whereas the ax7 is just the amp attempting to control the copious amount of gain that is being produced. To me, it does sound better to arrive at your ideal gain from underneath, as opposed to above. More clarity, more dynamics, just better everything. Hope that makes sense.

Our other powerballin' friend in this thread has his own mod, but it seems more involved than mine. An AT7 tube will cost you 13 bucks at a guitar shop, why not?


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## Pedrojoca (Jul 31, 2011)

no vanhendrix, i actually came back to your mod again. It does wonders and is really simple. The only difference is that I compared a JJ 12at7 with a TAD 12at7 and the TAD was even better. 

If you do decide to do the mod, keep in mind that you'll run your gain at around 3 o' clock to get the "regular" gain amounts, which is a good thing!


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## vanhendrix (Jul 31, 2011)

Pedrojoca said:


> no vanhendrix, i actually came back to your mod again. It does wonders and is really simple. The only difference is that I compared a JJ 12at7 with a TAD 12at7 and the TAD was even better.
> 
> If you do decide to do the mod, keep in mind that you'll run your gain at around 3 o' clock to get the "regular" gain amounts, which is a good thing!




Haha well i'd better give my mod a name then eh? I call it the *CTFD mod*. Or "calm the fuck down", amp. 

I play my gain at anywhere from 11 (oclock) to maxed out now. I prefer to use it around noon-3, and have my GT-OD pedal (with gain and output set really low) engaged for solos (or my crunch channel), just to overdrive the input a bit and get more compression/sustain. Only for solos then, I hate compression on my main sound. Hate.


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## Pedrojoca (Aug 1, 2011)

warlock7strEMG said:


> According to Lordovchaos, retubing the Powerballs power section with 5881's also helps in the mids department, brings some upper mids that make it cut thru better and also rounds off some of the fizzy highs



sorry for only noticing this now but... I know that if you retube the amp with EL34, you need to change a resistor, to allow the bias to get where it needs to go, if I retubed it with 5881, would that be necessary?


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## snigloid (Aug 3, 2011)

Thanks for the info guys its all very helpful. I will definetly be switching out the v6 tube and when I get a chance make some sound clips with my sm57 .


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## Flesh (Sep 6, 2011)

This is great, so what in your opinions are the best types of tubes to put in place of the one in V6 that will still retain the gain?


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## Pedrojoca (Sep 6, 2011)

the best positions we found were 

V5 (first preamp tube)- 12ax7 V6- 12at7 V7- 12ax7 V8- Balanced 12ax7

This one was discovered by vanhendrix, and I now use it, because it's really the best one. Keep in mind that the amp comes with 4 12ax7, which means that you can only change the V6 to do this. That's like 7$.... For optimal results, i'd reccomend you to change all 4 off them. (keep in mind that 12ax7 is the EXACT same thing as ECC83S).

V5- 12ax7 - This one works best with a Tung Sol 12ax7 
V6- 12at7 - Fizz/Gain reduction, a TAD Premium 12ax7 works great here, but you can put a JJ 12at7 aswell.
V7- 12ax7 - Many people really like the Shuguang 9th Gen Chinese 12ax7 here, i'm using JJ but if you put those 9th gen in it, you'll really like it.
V8- BALANCED 12ax7 - This one works well with a 9th gen 12ax7 or a JJ, but remember, it must be balanced!

about the retain the gain part: Powerball gain stage 101

With the standard powerball gain, you would put the gain knob around 9 o' clock, 10 o' clock. The gain knob sets the input level of your guitar in the amp, kinda like a boost would do. After the gain knob, the signal goes to the distortion stages of the amp. The reason why you can't go any further that 12 o' clock with the gain knob and still get good clarity is because this sections adds a bit too much distortion to the signal. When you put this tube combo in the amp, this section adds a less distortion, which lets you push the gain knob further! In the end, you get the same amount of distortion, but it's much more organic, naturally tight and really dynamic. Oh, and say goodbye to the damn fizz...
Plus, remember the 4 channels your powerball has? You'll now be able to use them properly... the cleans are still good, the crunch improved by quite a bit, channel 3 is now a marshall type channel, which recieves a boost really well  and channel 4 holds all your brootz and tightness... it's the damn BALLS channel!

Conclusion: people tell me all the time that my powerball sound amazing, when they check out my settings, they're like WTF?! because my gain knob is almost 3/4 of the way up. Plus, people buy them and then complain because their PB doesn't sound that good 

aaaaand one more thing I forgot... SETTINGS! (for the lead channels, of course)

Gain- with the mod, I normally run it at about 7/10, play around with it... (keep in mind, I have active pickups...)

Bottom/Lo Punch buttons- a lot of people despise them as they say that the amp has enough low end... and I say F*** that, lower the bass knob and see if you like it On or Off.

Bass- 5/10 with the bottom button ON and around 7/10 with the bottom button OFF.

Middle- I'm a middle guy, plus I have V60 in the cab (mid scooped) so I basically crank it up... around 8/10 ...or 4/5 for scoopers...

Treble and Presence- Never say never, just say DAMN never! These aresome of the knobs that can make the difference between playing a toothbrush with red lights and a 1500$ amp... you have to find the perfect combination between the treble and the presence knob. I usually have Treble at 7,5/10 & Presence at 3,5/10 or Treble at 6,5 and Presence at 6/10.

Lead Volume- This can be really different from person to person. If you like a raw(ish) sound, go for 3/10, even though buying a powerball when you want a raw sound is stupid  or you can go all the way to 6/10 if you like a saturated sound. play with it (that's what she said)

Middle Boost- I use it to stand out in leads and stuff, some people like it with rhythm parts...

Depth Punch- This is the power amp low end control. Discover the perfect spot, mine is around 4,5/10 when I use a lot of bass in the preamp section or 7/10 when I don't.

Ok, this was supposed to be a short post... yea turned out pretty short  have fun


any questions? feel free to ask them


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## Flesh (Sep 6, 2011)

sweet, that helps alot man thanks again.

Time to source some tubes


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## vanhendrix (Sep 6, 2011)

Ah the CTFD mod. My favorite!


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## Pedrojoca (Sep 6, 2011)

vanhendrix said:


> Ah the CTFD mod. My favorite!



care to explain? i didn't get it 

EDIT: oh wait, just got it, that must be the name of the mod


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## vanhendrix (Sep 6, 2011)

Pedrojoca said:


> care to explain? i didn't get it
> 
> EDIT: oh wait, just got it, that must be the name of the mod



Haha read one page back my friend


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## vanhendrix (Sep 18, 2011)

With your big post up there, do your settings mean "5 out of 10" when you say 5/10, or "between 5 and 10 oclock"? They seem strange to me...especially because it actually does go to 11 on every knob


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## Pedrojoca (Sep 19, 2011)

it's 5 out of 10... sorry, I always thought of it as if the first line on the knob was 0


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## jin (Oct 17, 2011)

hello if i buy a fireball what are the best tubes to use? If there is any thread regarding fireball mod please give me the link i cant find it thanks. Anyways even if you dont replace the tubes engl amps still sound good for its price am i right??


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## Pedrojoca (Oct 17, 2011)

Dude, thanks for posting here 

All the info here applies to the Fireball aswell. It will still sound good without the mod, but if you DO get the amp do the mod, it costs something like 10 bucks and it's really easy


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## Pedrojoca (Oct 25, 2011)

Real quick: adding some info to the topic.

If you feel the powerball lacks low mids, just enable the mid boost, as simple as that. People say it's only for solos, but if it helps you fix what you want, why not?


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## jin (Nov 21, 2011)

Pedrojoca said:


> Dude, thanks for posting here
> 
> All the info here applies to the Fireball aswell. It will still sound good without the mod, but if you DO get the amp do the mod, it costs something like 10 bucks and it's really easy



hah no problem someone led me here. You mean all the mod here costs around the same? or are you refering to a specific mod? ALso, how do you know which tubes give that certain characteristic? Do you guys test them out or you already know beforehand which tubes will sound better with the amp?


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## Pedrojoca (Nov 21, 2011)

me and vanhendrix were the main researchers for this, we came up with the combination in the big post above in this same page by testing them, trust me, it's worth it. if you just change the V6 (second preamp tube) the whole preamp tube mod will be around 10$, if you change the 4 of them around 40$, pretty cheap for the changes you get


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## kylendm (Nov 21, 2011)

Just wanted to chime in here. I never owned a Powerball or anything but in all the amps I've played a JAN 5751 in the PI slot is going to be much better than a 12at7 or 12ax7. JAN 5751s are very quiet tubes and clean sounding. A 5751 is in the middle or a 12at7 and 12ax7 in gain.

Try a JAN 5751 in the PI. I know you'll love it.

And also note that Tung-sol 12ax7s have less gain than other 12ax7s.


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## Pedrojoca (Nov 21, 2011)

kylendm said:


> Just wanted to chime in here. I never owned a Powerball or anything but in all the amps I've played a JAN 5751 in the PI slot is going to be much better than a 12at7 or 12ax7. JAN 5751s are very quiet tubes and clean sounding. A 5751 is in the middle or a 12at7 and 12ax7 in gain.
> 
> Try a JAN 5751 in the PI. I know you'll love it.
> 
> And also note that Tung-sol 12ax7s have less gain than other 12ax7s.



I know!  good to find someone else thinking that, i've heard a couple amps with one and they just shine! I was going to buy one with the mash of tubes i ordered but it was 25$ so i forgot it


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## aviel (Jan 2, 2012)

Hey,
My name is Aviel and this is my first post in the forum 
i joined because i saw this amazing powerball mod thread.

i quite like my powerball, i chosed it over the blackmore because of more channels, but i would be happy if i can reduce the fizz a bit and make it more raw, towards blackmore.

I never modded an amp, i've build a pedal once,, but i dont want to make any damage to the amp. 

Can i do this moding with just changing the tubes, as simple as it is? without risking biasing issue and stuff? and if so, where do you recommend to start? i am basiclly a power metal guy, and thats the sound i am after.

i will be happy to hear your latest thoughts.
thanks!


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## Pedrojoca (Jan 2, 2012)

aviel said:


> Hey,
> My name is Aviel and this is my first post in the forum
> i joined because i saw this amazing powerball mod thread.
> 
> ...



hey man! thanks for the thread appreciation.
Do the preamp tubes mod, it doesn't require any biasing and it won't harm your amp. 
To preform it, you just have to change your V6 preamp tube (second from left to right) to a 12at7. ATTENTION: After this mod you'll have to run the gain knob higher, which results in sweet distortion, with reduced fizz and extra clarity. Here's the tube you need: 12AT7 / ECC81 TAD Premium Selected (symmetrisch/b - TAD Vorstufenröhren SELECTED


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## aviel (Jan 2, 2012)

wow that was a quick reply! i read in the thread you also changed the v5, v7 and v8, do you recommend to start though only with the V5?

also, did it affected the nice cleans the amp has got?


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## Pedrojoca (Jan 2, 2012)

the cleans got warmer IMO.
I changed the other tubes because mine were screwed, but it also helps a bit as I'm not such a fan of the standard tubes. If you want to, you can pop some tung sols in there or JJ. 

EDIT: Forgot to say, if you change the others, V5 and V7 must be a 12ax7 and V8 must be a BALANCED 12ax7


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## Pyo (Jan 2, 2012)

Gonna try this aswell. Cheers for the good thread.


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## vanhendrix (Jan 2, 2012)

Haha soon everyone will be running CTFD-modded powerballs! Maybe they'll start releasing them like that?

To the new guy: before you start swapping out the tubes in the other positions, I would suggest that you read up on just what it is that each one controls. The one we say to switch controls the gain stage for channels 3 and 4, but does not act on the first two channels


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## Pedrojoca (Jan 2, 2012)

Pyo said:


> Gonna try this aswell. Cheers for the good thread.



Hey, really nice to see more portuguese around ss.org. Thanks for the appreciation 



vanhendrix said:


> Haha soon everyone will be running CTFD-modded powerballs! Maybe they'll start releasing them like that?
> 
> To the new guy: before you start swapping out the tubes in the other positions, I would suggest that you read up on just what it is that each one controls. The one we say to switch controls the gain stage for channels 3 and 4, but does not act on the first two channels



 maybe they would man, wouldn't cost that much, it's just 1 different tube within a 4 tube set. I just gotta remember the mod's name, i keep forgetting it.


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## aviel (Jan 2, 2012)

vanhendrix said:


> Haha soon everyone will be running CTFD-modded powerballs! Maybe they'll start releasing them like that?
> 
> To the new guy: before you start swapping out the tubes in the other positions, I would suggest that you read up on just what it is that each one controls. The one we say to switch controls the gain stage for channels 3 and 4, but does not act on the first two channels


 

yes i think i will go first with the V6 swap, then continue examing the results.i think that if the amp will get a little less compressed and will have less harsh highs it will rock.


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## aviel (Jan 2, 2012)

Pedrojoca said:


> the cleans got warmer IMO.
> I changed the other tubes because mine were screwed, but it also helps a bit as I'm not such a fan of the standard tubes. If you want to, you can pop some tung sols in there or JJ.
> 
> EDIT: Forgot to say, if you change the others, V5 and V7 must be a 12ax7 and V8 must be a BALANCED 12ax7


 

i guess i will wait till mine are screwed. step by step is always safer. also was suprised to read that you people leave your amp to warm up for at least 15 minuetes. i usually just warm it up 1 minute and start playing


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## aviel (Jan 3, 2012)

sorry for flooding this thing up, but no local store here have got the tad 12at7, they have EH 12at7 though, preaty cheap, should it be fine? at least untill i order my tad from ebay or something?


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## vanhendrix (Jan 3, 2012)

aviel said:


> sorry for flooding this thing up, but no local store here have got the tad 12at7, they have EH 12at7 though, preaty cheap, should it be fine? at least untill i order my tad from ebay or something?



I just used a Mesa-branded AT7. It was what my guitar shop had in stock, and I didn't really care. I'd imagine changing to any other type of tube would have more of an effect than the subtleties of different brands of that type of tube. No?


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## aviel (Jan 3, 2012)

Yea i guess.. but i see everyone here was talking only about jjs or tads. i just dont want to put shitty tubes in an expensive head. lol


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## vanhendrix (Jan 3, 2012)

aviel said:


> Yea i guess.. but i see everyone here was talking only about jjs or tads. i just dont want to put shitty tubes in an expensive head. lol



Well the 'other people' were mainly just pedrojoca and myself swapping tubes willie-nillie on our amps. I don't really know much about specific types of tubes, but I have the feeling that whatever aftermarket ones you get will be as good or better than the stock tubes.


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## Pedrojoca (Jan 3, 2012)

TAD can only be ordered. I personally don't like EH's tone, but you can give it a try.


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## loktide (Jan 3, 2012)

retubing V1 and V2 to lower gain preamp tubes is not a 'mod'.

unfortunately, the PCB construction method ENGL uses on their amps is very mod-unfriendly and unserviceable. basically, the larger components are literally glued to the PCB, and the layout is very tight with very small solder joints. therefore, actually modding the amp would be quite a pain the ass. 

still, i'd start by modding the BIAS it so it can take EL34s and reducing the gain between stages by changing the plate resistors.

also, altering the tone stack and presence control would also help making it sound thicker/meatier


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## vanhendrix (Jan 3, 2012)

loktide said:


> retubing V1 and V2 to lower gain preamp tubes is not a 'mod'.
> 
> unfortunately, the PCB construction method ENGL uses on their amps is very mod-unfriendly and unserviceable. basically, the larger components are literally glued to the PCB, and the layout is very tight with very small solder joints. therefore, actually modding the amp would be quite a pain the ass.
> 
> ...



How is modifying one of the components of a device not a mod? However simple it may be

Also V1 and V2 are powertubes. We had a hell of a time getting this thread on track to figure out what we were all talking about before. Let's not get confused again


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## aviel (Jan 3, 2012)

ok. i did it, just used shitty EHX, and it MAKES a difference.
at the begning i was happy, then i switched back to the 12ax7, and was lilke, what the hell, is the same with just less brightness. but then i switched again to the 12AT7, and shit, this brings the amp to life, much more tight, kicking. still a a bitt fizzy, but much more alive. really.

maybe its jusy the placebo effect.

also, EHX tubes have higher current so basiclly, EHX 12at7 should have more gain then a regular 12at7.

i will try to grab jj's and check it. maybe also changing v 5 v 7


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## Pedrojoca (Jan 3, 2012)

aviel said:


> ok. i did it, just used shitty EHX, and it MAKES a difference.
> at the begning i was happy, then i switched back to the 12ax7, and was lilke, what the hell, is the same with just less brightness. but then i switched again to the 12AT7, and shit, this brings the amp to life, much more tight, kicking. still a a bitt fizzy, but much more alive. really.
> 
> maybe its jusy the placebo effect.
> ...



once again, i reccomend the TAD, i prefered it over the JJ 12at7, way richer on the midrange


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## aviel (Jan 3, 2012)

gonna order those. how well do they ship tubes on ebay? dont we get them brocken ?


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## Pedrojoca (Jan 3, 2012)

it's not ebay man, it's a website dedicated to tubes, it's called TAD, they actually make their own branded tubes. posted the link a while ago: 12AT7 / ECC81 TAD Premium Selected (symmetrisch/b - TAD Vorstufenröhren SELECTED


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## aviel (Jan 3, 2012)

oh got you now. sorry for it. so you order your tubes from their? i see the shipping even inside europe is more expensive then 2 tubes..


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## vanhendrix (Jan 8, 2012)

Pedrojoca said:


> once again, i reccomend the TAD, i prefered it over the JJ 12at7, way richer on the midrange



I thought you'd be interested to know that I just found out that Mesa tubes are simply rebranded JJs, so we've been talking about the same thing all along


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## Pedrojoca (Jan 8, 2012)

vanhendrix said:


> I thought you'd be interested to know that I just found out that Mesa tubes are simply rebranded JJs, so we've been talking about the same thing all along



 but i don't use the JJ in V6 man, i use the TAD, you just quoted me saying that


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## vanhendrix (Jan 8, 2012)

I know, but now we're in the same ballpark


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## vanhendrix (Jan 15, 2012)

Well guys, I replaced my aging powertubes with Mesa 6L6GCs. Mine were almost 3 years old, and I wanted something that I could swap out myself without taking it to some jerkass tech.

Long story short, here are the results:

- Much less fizz. Up until I did the swap I was running my presence completely off, now I'm using the knob again!

- Maybe a touch less of the "processed" sound that people seem to talk about, but has never really bothered me.

Other than that, it sounds almost the same, which is good. Keep in mind I swapped my V6 back to the AX7 some time ago though.


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## Pedrojoca (Jan 16, 2012)

vanhendrix said:


> Well guys, I replaced my aging powertubes with Mesa 6L6GCs. Mine were almost 3 years old, and I wanted something that I could swap out myself without taking it to some jerkass tech.
> 
> Long story short, here are the results:
> 
> ...



Yay, some news again finally. Dude what do you mean with not having to take it to a tech? didn't you have to bias it?


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## vanhendrix (Jan 16, 2012)

Pedrojoca said:


> Yay, some news again finally. Dude what do you mean with not having to take it to a tech? didn't you have to bias it?



No I did not. That was the important part to me really

The amp is fixed-bias (more or less) so as long as you're replacing the tubes with the same type (engl specifically told me ANY 6L6GC tubes) then you can get away without biasing. The amp has the tube monitoring system that'll shut bad tubes down, so I wasn't terribly scared about blowing something up. 

I really needed something to reign in that out of control high end response though, I don't like having any of the knobs turned all the way off. This seems to have done the trick without altering much otherwise. Exactly what I wanted.


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## Leec (Feb 7, 2012)

loktide said:


> retubing V1 and V2 to lower gain preamp tubes is not a 'mod'.
> 
> unfortunately, the PCB construction method ENGL uses on their amps is very mod-unfriendly and unserviceable. basically, the larger components are literally glued to the PCB, and the layout is very tight with very small solder joints. therefore, actually modding the amp would be quite a pain the ass.
> 
> ...



Loktide is absolutely right. Changing a preamp tube is not a 'mod'. It's simply changing the tubes. Just like changing strings from D'Addario to Ernie Ball is not modding your guitar.

I appreciate this thread and the effort involved, but without actual examples it's difficult to take such subjective discussions at their word. And when 50% of the authors is stating that Nickelback have good tone (Nickelback!!!), it's difficult to give too much weight to their words.

I don't want to be totally negative, though. There's some good information here, and it will hopefully get people into experimenting with their pre-amp tubes - something everyone should try; it's very easy, very cheap and can have a dramatic effect.

I've just scored a Powerball that appears to be completely stock, pre-amp wise. I'll be putting some well recorded (i.e, not camcorder microphone) demo clips online soon. And once I've played around with various tubes, I'll post up clips of those, too.


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## Pedrojoca (Feb 7, 2012)

Leec said:


> Loktide is absolutely right. Changing a preamp tube is not a 'mod'. It's simply changing the tubes. Just like changing strings from D'Addario to Ernie Ball is not modding your guitar.
> 
> I appreciate this thread and the effort involved, but without actual examples it's difficult to take such subjective discussions at their word. And when 50% of the authors is stating that Nickelback have good tone (Nickelback!!!), it's difficult to give too much weight to their words.
> 
> ...



sorry for the misinformation man, feel kinda bad for it, but Nickelback , eww. No. I don't recall anyone talking about nickelback. But i mean it man, it does make a difference, you should definetly do it. thanks for posting though


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## Leec (Feb 7, 2012)

It's not misinformation, dude. The only thing I disagreed with is calling the swapping out of tubes a 'mod'. That term when used about amps usually refers to some more significant wiring or circuit board changes.

No need to feel bad, either. What you and Vanhendrix have written here is clearly useful as a guide. I just think it could have been way more useful with clips to demonstrate these changes you're talking about when you're trying to catalogue them, as it were.


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## vanhendrix (Feb 10, 2012)

Aww I had a big long post about how I thought this thread should be a guide. I guess it dissapeared when I couldn't get on the forums last night, but it was just explaining about how since these are such minute changes, posting clips would be pretty pointless. It's all about finding the best fit between tube choice and user. Any difference in the tubes could be easily masked/altered by the multitude of variables in recording clips.

The moral:
They're cheap, swap your own tubes. We've already explained which ones work. See how it sounds in your particular situation


That is all






P.s. I still consider it a mod


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## Erazoender (Feb 12, 2012)

Alright so I'm going to hopefully get my hands on an ENGL Powerball 1, I've read the entire thread so I have a general idea of what preamp tubes to get (though any particular brand?)

But I have no idea what to do with the power tubes. :S Suggestions?


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## Pedrojoca (Feb 12, 2012)

well, a lot of people love EL34s but you have to get the resistor modded, i think you can put 5881s in there and bias it to that, but i'm not sure, can anyone chime in?

If you plan on staying 6L6 as default, i say go Ruby 6l6, JJs are too dark.


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## vanhendrix (Feb 12, 2012)

For powertubes, at the end of the day I just went with a brand felt I could trust (mesa). I feel as long as you keep with the 6L6GC-type that the amp wants, there's really no wrong answer. Once you get into rebasing/modding transistor nonsense, then you might see some huge differences depending on the tube type you want


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## Mikeyprs (Feb 17, 2012)

Aight People! .. forum newbie here lol, I've recently become an owner of the Engl Powerball! (V1 I believe) and atm, I'm really liking the sounds of the amp on it's own, but at a practise session i recently had with the band. 

I found myself getting buried in the mix, which may well have been my own fault come to think of it by running the ch3/4 gain around 6/7 and the master was around 4/5 ... or something like that anyway.. now I've never scooped my mid section either particularly in a show/practise session but it didn't seem to be enough?? the other guitarist in the band was using the studios marshall half-stack which seemed rather overpowering to say the least... (i guess it don't help that he really pushes the amp quite hard tbh...) 

In any case... i'm interested in what has been said in this thread i.e tube swapping but would you guys say/agree that it would be wise to give the amp a couple more run throughs with the amp before tweaking incase it's a newbie error at play here??

Thanks,
Mike


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## Pedrojoca (Feb 18, 2012)

Mikeyprs said:


> Aight People! .. forum newbie here lol, I've recently become an owner of the Engl Powerball! (V1 I believe) and atm, I'm really liking the sounds of the amp on it's own, but at a practise session i recently had with the band.
> 
> I found myself getting buried in the mix, which may well have been my own fault come to think of it by running the ch3/4 gain around 6/7 and the master was around 4/5 ... or something like that anyway.. now I've never scooped my mid section either particularly in a show/practise session but it didn't seem to be enough?? the other guitarist in the band was using the studios marshall half-stack which seemed rather overpowering to say the least... (i guess it don't help that he really pushes the amp quite hard tbh...)
> 
> ...



Hey there man! Sorry but this isn't really something you can fix with a preamp tube 'mod', you have to mess with the settings. Most people will tell you to turn your presence down but with a band, it is the key to cutting through. Plus, if yours is still stock, the gain should be running about 9 o' clock. Last thing, if this doesn't suffice, the massive low end is probably blocking the rest of the frequencies, lower the BASS a tiny bit and the Depth control until the sound is balanced, from there, once you crank up the volume, you're not just raising a mash o low frequencies.


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## vanhendrix (Feb 18, 2012)

Pedrojoca said:


> Hey there man! Sorry but this isn't really something you can fix with a preamp tube 'mod', you have to mess with the settings. Most people will tell you to turn your presence down but with a band, it is the key to cutting through. Plus, if yours is still stock, the gain should be running about 9 o' clock. Last thing, if this doesn't suffice, the massive low end is probably blocking the rest of the frequencies, lower the BASS a tiny bit and the Depth control until the sound is balanced, from there, once you crank up the volume, you're not just raising a mash o low frequencies.



I've never had any problem cutting through, but I run my mids all the way up all the time. The amp is voiced pretty scoopy so it balances out. Everything else is more or less at noon.

Hell, you want Marty Friedman's powerball settings? Everything at noon. Easy!


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## Mikeyprs (Feb 20, 2012)

awesome stuff guys! Thanks for the speedy replys 
I did kinda think it was more or less a newbie error and hopefully myself and the rest of the lads will get back in the practise space soon and put your advise into action.
Another thing I should ought to have mentioned earlier is that the cab that i'm running the amp through is a Randall RS412XJ.

Thank you for the advise guys


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## Mikeyprs (Feb 20, 2012)

Also, the amp is indeed still totally stock, the guy i bought the amp from recently had it serviced and that the tubes have not been changed in the under his 2 year ownership of the amp =]


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## Pedrojoca (Feb 20, 2012)

what speakers does that Randall cab have?


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## Erazoender (Feb 25, 2012)

Pedrojoca said:


> the best positions we found were
> 
> V5 (first preamp tube)- 12ax7 V6- 12at7 V7- 12ax7 V8- Balanced 12ax7
> 
> ...



Could you do me a massive favor because I'm really lost with the tubes....


Long & McQuade - Canada's Music Store, Musical Instruments Find them on this site?


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## Pedrojoca (Feb 25, 2012)

Erazoender said:


> Could you do me a massive favor because I'm really lost with the tubes....
> 
> 
> Long & McQuade - Canada's Music Store, Musical Instruments Find them on this site?



here it is  Long & McQuade - JJ Tubes 12AT7/ECC81 - Preamp Tube

the site doesn't have TAD, so JJ should deliver.


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## Erazoender (Feb 25, 2012)

Thank you sir, but what about the balanced one?


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## Pedrojoca (Feb 25, 2012)

Erazoender said:


> Thank you sir, but what about the balanced one?



i'll give you some specific help mate, just tell me, do you want to change the gain tube or retube the whole preamp section?


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## Erazoender (Feb 25, 2012)

Cheers! Would it be better to retube the whole preamp section? As I think I'd rather do that. At some point I should do the power section but that can wait. Also so you think that the PB would sound good with warehouse guitar speaker veterans?


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## Pedrojoca (Feb 25, 2012)

Erazoender said:


> Cheers! Would it be better to retube the whole preamp section? As I think I'd rather do that. At some point I should do the power section but that can wait. Also so you think that the PB would sound good with warehouse guitar speaker veterans?



yeah, i think it would. Most people love it with V30s and IMO, the Veterans are even better so it must match really well.

If you want to retube the whole preamp section you need:

1 of these:
Long & McQuade - JJ Tubes 12AT7/ECC81 - Preamp Tube

3 of these:
Long & McQuade - JJ Tubes 12AX7/ECC83 - Preamp Tube

I do not recommend you to buy a balanced tube for the phase inverter (V8) because after extensive research and testing, i think that "imperfect" balance on tubes produces an the same autenthic sound, tubes weren't made to be 100,00% perfect.


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## Erazoender (Feb 25, 2012)

Thank you very much sir! And not to mention the veterans are even cheaper..... Greatly appreciate it! So with these new tubes would it help the cutting through live issue the stock tubes have? As well, would an el34 power tube replacement help that out as well?

Cheers once again! Greatly appreciated


----------



## Pedrojoca (Feb 25, 2012)

Erazoender said:


> Thank you very much sir! And not to mention the veterans are even cheaper..... Greatly appreciate it! So with these new tubes would it help the cutting through live issue the stock tubes have? As well, would an el34 power tube replacement help that out as well?
> 
> Cheers once again! Greatly appreciated



It's ok man, i love helping  .

I'm not really sure how to answer as I don't seem to have that problem  . 
Now seriously, if set incorrectly the PB doesn't cut through, you really gotta read back a bit on the thread man, i know the bass on this beast is SO sweet and it just makes you want to crank it, but keep in mind it totally buries the mids. Plus, the presence control is ESSENTIAL.
Switching preamp tubes won't help much either, but the EL34s definetly would. BUT BE WARNED YOU MUST MOD THE AMP, while preamp tubes don't need biasing, power tubes always do, please do not throw them in there without biasing.


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## Erazoender (Feb 25, 2012)

That much I am aware of, not to worry  The amp is being shipped so I won't get it until next week, as well I probably won't swap out the tubes until I have the money + necessity of recording to motivate me. How much do you think it would cost to mod the amp with el34s?


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## Pedrojoca (Feb 25, 2012)

Erazoender said:


> That much I am aware of, not to worry  The amp is being shipped so I won't get it until next week, as well I probably won't swap out the tubes until I have the money + necessity of recording to motivate me. How much do you think it would cost to mod the amp with el34s?



i don't know  none of the threads mentioning EL34s on the amp mentioned prices. Anyways, if you still don't have the amp, the belief that it doesn't cut through is perfectly acceptable  . It's just that there are a LOT of chugg-only guys who buy this amp and set it up sounding like a modeller, annoying as hell


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## vanhendrix (Feb 25, 2012)

Erazoender said:


> That much I am aware of, not to worry  The amp is being shipped so I won't get it until next week, as well I probably won't swap out the tubes until I have the money + necessity of recording to motivate me. How much do you think it would cost to mod the amp with el34s?



Hold on. You don't have the amp yet and it ALREADY doesn't cut through? I am so sick of that nonsense rumor. 

At least try the amp out before you consider doing the major surgery required to put el34s in it. A professional will need to do that, and you have to change all kinds of capacitors and whatnot


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## Erazoender (Feb 25, 2012)

Haha the only reason for me talking about swapping out the tubes is because the previous owner told me that the tubes were dying and suggested to replace them. (It's why I scored the Powerball 1 and a Z-5 footswitch for 1400$ with shipping.


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## vanhendrix (Feb 26, 2012)

Erazoender said:


> Haha the only reason for me talking about swapping out the tubes is because the previous owner told me that the tubes were dying and suggested to replace them. (It's why I scored the Powerball 1 and a Z-5 footswitch for 1400$ with shipping.



That's a whale of a deal my friend, good score. If you read this whole thread then you'll know I just swapped my old tubes. It was dead easy


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## Pedrojoca (Feb 26, 2012)

vanhendrix said:


> That's a whale of a deal my friend, good score. If you read this whole thread then you'll know I just swapped my old tubes. It was dead easy


power tubes?


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## vanhendrix (Feb 26, 2012)

Pedrojoca said:


> power tubes?




Powertubes. No biasing. We went over this already dude


----------



## Mikeyprs (Feb 27, 2012)

Pedrojoca said:


> what speakers does that Randall cab have?



Randall's own Custom Eminence Jaguar speakers is the answer to the question good sir!


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## Pedrojoca (Feb 27, 2012)

vanhendrix said:


> Powertubes. No biasing. We went over this already dude



ah right, same kind of tubes. Sorry for my uber retarded memory


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## Erazoender (Feb 28, 2012)

vanhendrix said:


> Powertubes. No biasing. We went over this already dude



Waaaaait you swapped in el34's without modifying anything? (Circuitry?)


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## vanhendrix (Feb 28, 2012)

Erazoender said:


> Waaaaait you swapped in el34's without modifying anything?



No. Come on guys, read the thread. I've posted everything before

Edit: Hey pedrojoca, I think we need to update the first post again to put whatever new info we have in there


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## Erazoender (Feb 28, 2012)

vanhendrix said:


> No. Come on guys, read the thread. I've posted everything before
> 
> Edit: Hey pedrojoca, I think we need to update the first post again to put whatever new info we have in there



Hmm what's the stock bias like, as pedrojoca said it's pretty cold. How do the el34's handle it? I did read the thread I just like to confirm things


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## Pedrojoca (Feb 28, 2012)

Erazoender said:


> Hmm what's the stock bias like, as pedrojoca said it's pretty cold. How do the el34's handle it? I did read the thread I just like to confirm things



no dude, you can use the standard bias with the SAME KIND of tubes, el34 won't handle it almost for sure, not worth the risk.



vanhendrix said:


> No. Come on guys, read the thread. I've posted everything before
> 
> Edit: Hey pedrojoca, I think we need to update the first post again to put whatever new info we have in there



That's the problem man, i'd have updated it a long time ago, but ss.org doesn't let you edit posts after some time.


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## vanhendrix (Feb 28, 2012)

Erazoender said:


> Hmm what's the stock bias like, as pedrojoca said it's pretty cold. How do the el34's handle it? I did read the thread I just like to confirm things



It absolutely does not have el34s. The higher current draw of the tubes would blow up the amp in no time.

Are you guys just messing with me? Read the _posts_ in the thread.


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## Erazoender (Feb 29, 2012)

vanhendrix said:


> It absolutely does not have el34s. The higher current draw of the tubes would blow up the amp in no time.
> 
> Are you guys just messing with me? Read the _posts_ in the thread.



WOW I totally read this the entire time as yes you did. 

Don't mind me


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## Erazoender (Mar 4, 2012)

Wait, what's the difference between the ENGL Powerball and ENGL Powerball v2 (Not Powerball II)?


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## Pedrojoca (Mar 4, 2012)

Erazoender said:


> Wait, what's the difference between the ENGL Powerball and ENGL Powerball v2 (Not Powerball II)?



good question  i think vanhendrix might be able to help, as far as i'm concerned, here's what i know:

There are 3 versions

Powerball 
Powerball v2
Powerball II

I think the first one was the one which had sound issues to fix, it wouldn't cut very well (think FB 60) and the tonal structure was slightly changed.

The v2 sounds similar to the II but has a bit more uncontrolled gain, while most v2 users got away with the gain knob at 9 o'clock unmodded i had to go 12 o'clock on my II (not a bad thing)

The II is awesome IMO, it has an amazing noise gate, the sound is a bit better but the real reason i love it is because of the CTFD mod we talked about in this mod, it's just so good


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## vanhendrix (Mar 4, 2012)

Pedrojoca said:


> good question  i think vanhendrix might be able to help, as far as i'm concerned, here's what i know:
> 
> There are 3 versions
> 
> ...



My 2 cents:

The difference between the 1st version and the "v2" powerball is just a redesign of the noise gate. As for the PB II, it has more gain knobs and different controlling options (z-9 instead of z-5), which makes the fx loop and the gate now switchable. The tone stacks have not been changed for the II though, the amp is the same at heart.


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## Erazoender (Mar 25, 2012)

These are my settings that I dialed in based on what I think sounds good (unmodded) It sounds pretty damn good (though keeping it mind is low volume so the tubes can't really give too much life to the sound) though I can hear what you guys are saying by being quite fizzy. So looks like I'm going to be doing the CTFD mod soon. 

What I sort of find funny is I don't hear much of a difference when changing the mids level but when I change the bass or treble the amp sounds like a Line 6


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## Pedrojoca (Mar 25, 2012)

Erazoender said:


> These are my settings that I dialed in based on what I think sounds good (unmodded) It sounds pretty damn good (though keeping it mind is low volume so the tubes can't really give too much life to the sound) though I can hear what you guys are saying by being quite fizzy. So looks like I'm going to be doing the CTFD mod soon.
> 
> What I sort of find funny is I don't hear much of a difference when changing the mids level but when I change the bass or treble the amp sounds like a Line 6



nice! could you explain your settings? There are some things i'd like you to explain like the cranked bass on the preamp but quite low on the power section


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## Erazoender (Mar 25, 2012)

The top EQ knobs are for the clean channel and the bottom EQ knobs are for the rhythm and gain channels. I fiddled with the settings some more.... for the rhythm and leads I've got the gain around 10:30, Bass at just over 9, Mids at max, Treble at around 11, with the open mids (I don't hear much a difference between open and focused...?  ) Presence at 10 and depth punch off. 

Anyways this is at bedroom volume so if I ever crank it I'll probably dial back the gain and adjust the EQ accordingly, I'm thinking of getting an EQ pedal to go along with it though I'll probably get the tubes serviced first; I'm thinking to just take it to the shop to swap all of the tubes out for EL34s and the JJ preamp tubes as suggested before. Two things though, would the EL34's still remain pretty silky or what tones would most closely resemble signature "EL34 tones" relative to what the Powerball would sound? I'm hearing the tone I'm after in the amp it's just being covered by some imperfections that I feel can be addressed.

Also I'm using my 7 string with Bareknuckle Nailbombs, I'm going to give my 6 string with EMG's a try to hear how that's going to effect the sound.


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## Pedrojoca (Mar 25, 2012)

Erazoender said:


> The top EQ knobs are for the clean channel and the bottom EQ knobs are for the rhythm and gain channels. I fiddled with the settings some more.... for the rhythm and leads I've got the gain around 10:30, Bass at just over 9, Mids at max, Treble at around 11, with the open mids (I don't hear much a difference between open and focused...?  ) Presence at 10 and depth punch off.
> 
> Anyways this is at bedroom volume so if I ever crank it I'll probably dial back the gain and adjust the EQ accordingly, I'm thinking of getting an EQ pedal to go along with it though I'll probably get the tubes serviced first; I'm thinking to just take it to the shop to swap all of the tubes out for EL34s and the JJ preamp tubes as suggested before. Two things though, would the EL34's still remain pretty silky or what tones would most closely resemble signature "EL34 tones" relative to what the Powerball would sound? I'm hearing the tone I'm after in the amp it's just being covered by some imperfections that I feel can be addressed.
> 
> Also I'm using my 7 string with Bareknuckle Nailbombs, I'm going to give my 6 string with EMG's a try to hear how that's going to effect the sound.



settings in o' clock?

no, i didn't want you to tell me the settings  i wanted to know WHY you chose those settings. Let's say, per example, why you put bass at 9.

EDIT: Any chance you'd come to the chat?


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## Erazoender (Mar 25, 2012)

Yes and oh whoops  I'm headed off to work in about 5 minutes so if you come on within that time sure x)

I'll do my best to explain my choice on the settings when I get a chance to at work during my break, in the meantime any suggestions about the tubes?


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## vanhendrix (Mar 25, 2012)

Yeah you've dialed the bass right out of that amp, kinda odd. To reiterate, swapping the tubes to EL34s is a major mod for this amp. It was never built to run them, so a professional will need to do some serious surgery on it.

As for the fizz, my advice would be to let the tubes warm up for a long time to get good and toasty, or just swap them straight up for some new 6L6GCs. It's a fixed bias amp -if you keep the same tube type, it does not have to be rebiased. I did this exact thing (with mesa branded tubes) and killed the fizz altogether.

Although I'm starting to think there's something amiss with my powerball. I'm noticing that I'm playing the master volumes pretty high (about noon) with the channel volumes at 10:30, and it's just below the threshold where I'd put in ear plugs. If I did the same with my new JVM, I'd blow my fucking face off. I remember noticing this before I did my tube swap, but I'm just wondering if my amp is getting quieter...how odd.


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## Erazoender (Mar 25, 2012)

The transformer is undersized for 100w so that may be something to do with it.


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## Pedrojoca (Mar 25, 2012)

true story, but why would you need that much volume anyway?


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## Erazoender (Mar 25, 2012)

I found that the bass really dulled down the sound (again keep in mind this is at bedroom levels so I haven't had an opportunity to crank 'er yet) so by throwing out the bass it made the overall sound a lot tighter and more definite. The band I play with (Trollband) plays sort of black/folk metal, so we have a lot of chordy stuff and when playing said sections, when the amp was dialed with a lot of bass I couldn't hear the note definition very well. The mids are all the way up for obvious reasons. I put the gain slightly higher than what everyone suggested because of our style of music, which tends to be slightly more gainy than say djent or modern metal. That said we're not terribly fond of a lot of black metal tones and try to be more open minded with our tone, so we keep the gain and treble in control. With this combo of EQ the tone I got was just slightly more gainy then that of what I'd use for typical metal, just slightly more chaotic which suits me well. At the same time, when I play single note lines, the tone is pretty tight and doesn't sound like a complete mess. (I play a D standard 7 string with a low A)

Again I don't have much experience in the land of gig level volumes, so I'd imagine that I'd dial the amp differently based on the situation and other players. 

Anyways I can't think really straight right now so if what I'm saying doesn't make sense let me know 

That aside, you said a straight swap for Mesa 6l6's eliminated most of the problems with fizz? If that's the case I may be more lenient toward sticking with the 6l6's, because worst case scenario I'd just get the el34 mod afterwards (opposed to doing it first and not liking it and modding it back to 6l6's.) I've also heard amazing things about KT88 power tubes, though I've never heard any samples or had experience with them, thoughts? 

Lastly the preamp tubes, I know we seem to be going over this over and over again....... but JJ's or another brand would be ideal? I'm just trying to make sure I don't make any mistakes as I don't have the cash to undo them at the moment  You should have seen me while I was soldering the wires to the speakers over the speaker cone..... I was fucking terrified of dropping some sauter onto the paper  

Thanks again guys!


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## Erazoender (Mar 26, 2012)

Also how much did the Mesa 6l6s go for?


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## Erazoender (Mar 26, 2012)

Bmup. Indeed.


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## vanhendrix (Mar 26, 2012)

About 50 bucks a pair. No big deal


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## Erazoender (Mar 26, 2012)

Haha for a highschool student with minimum wage it adds up 

So pedrojaca does that explain my settings somewhat or you still scratching your head about it? (; Any suggestions as to what your settings would be around prior to a tube mod?


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## Pedrojoca (Mar 26, 2012)

Erazoender said:


> Haha for a highschool student with minimum wage it adds up
> 
> So pedrojaca does that explain my settings somewhat or you still scratching your head about it? (; Any suggestions as to what your settings would be around prior to a tube mod?



it mostly does, thanks for contributing mate


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## Erazoender (Mar 26, 2012)

Haha no worries thank you for the suggestions, just curious how would an EL34 or KT88 mod effect the amp over swapping it out for new 6l6 tubes?


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## vanhendrix (Mar 27, 2012)

Erazoender said:


> Haha no worries thank you for the suggestions, just curious how would an EL34 or KT88 mod effect the amp over swapping it out for new 6l6 tubes?



The first change you'll notice will be your bank account. I don't think anyone in this thread has done that mod, and there is little to no data of people doing it out there on the interwebs. You'll be in uncharted waters my friend


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## Pedrojoca (Mar 27, 2012)

vanhendrix said:


> The first change you'll notice will be your bank account. I don't think anyone in this thread has done that mod, and there is little to no data of people doing it out there on the interwebs. You'll be in uncharted waters my friend



but still, i've read about 2 other people on the engl forum doing it and saying that "I've never heard a powerball kick so much ass"


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## Erazoender (Mar 27, 2012)

KT88 or EL34? Because aren't KT88's completely different in the sense that two are 100W so they draw a ludicruous-ly larger amount of power, or am I totally wrong with my idea of how tube branding works? :S Also what about a Tungsol 6l6 opposed to the Mesa? Lastly, forgive me for asking the same question again and again but do the Mesa 6l6s have enough cutting power for live setting? I'm still uncertain as to what tends to give this amp difficulty in live situations, granted I haven't tried it so I'm just basing it off of the other forums I've been reading. I've been inclined to mod my amp for EL34s for the mid punch but I'm worried that the overall tone will be changed to something less desirable.... 

And I know it's all subjective so I'm not asking "What's the best tube ever end of story?" 


God damn my friend keeps raving about the KT88s......


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## vanhendrix (Mar 27, 2012)

Erazoender said:


> KT88 or EL34? Because aren't KT88's completely different in the sense that two are 100W so they draw a ludicruous-ly larger amount of power, or am I totally wrong with my idea of how tube branding works? :S Also what about a Tungsol 6l6 opposed to the Mesa? Lastly, forgive me for asking the same question again and again but do the Mesa 6l6s have enough cutting power for live setting? I'm still uncertain as to what tends to give this amp difficulty in live situations, granted I haven't tried it so I'm just basing it off of the other forums I've been reading. I've been inclined to mod my amp for EL34s for the mid punch but I'm worried that the overall tone will be changed to something less desirable....
> 
> And I know it's all subjective so I'm not asking "What's the best tube ever end of story?"
> 
> God damn my friend keeps raving about the KT88s......



Just try the amp with a band before you quite possibly destroy it with some drastic mod like that. If people have problems cutting through, then they are fucking using it wrong. Period.

Seriously, you're better off selling it and buying an amp you do like than paying for such an extreme mod right off the bat. I wanted mine to sound like a Marshall, it didn't, so I went out and bought a Marshall. Now everyone wins.

/end rant.


I had to retype that 3 times to tone it down. That "cutting" myth just makes me so mad....


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## Pedrojoca (Mar 27, 2012)

vanhendrix said:


> If people have problems cutting through, then they are fucking using it wrong. Period.



THIS.



Anyway, i was talking about EL34 before.


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## Erazoender (Mar 27, 2012)

vanhendrix said:


> Just try the amp with a band before you quite possibly destroy it with some drastic mod like that. If people have problems cutting through, then they are fucking using it wrong. Period.
> 
> Seriously, you're better off selling it and buying an amp you do like than paying for such an extreme mod right off the bat. I wanted mine to sound like a Marshall, it didn't, so I went out and bought a Marshall. Now everyone wins.
> 
> ...



Hey man no worries I understand, it's why I'm asking guys with the experience of gigging with it who don't lack the ability of turning up the mids on what they feel of it in a live setting  

And I have no experience with tube mods so I'm not aware as to what sort of tonal changes a tube swap that drastic would make.

SO IN SHORT I'll be sticking with the Mesa 6l6GC power tubes and the (something other than JJ, heard negative things about the Tungsol in the Powerball) 12ax/at7 preamp tubes. If you could recommend your settings after said mods I'd much appreciate it! 

Now... how the fuck do I open my amp......


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## Erazoender (Mar 27, 2012)

DONE  That was a lot easier than I expected.... hope I don't fry anything....

Anyways she's warming up now and I'll post my thoughts in a bit after I clean up the room!


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## Erazoender (Mar 28, 2012)

OH MY 

OH MY GOD 

I am beyond lost for words. Thank you so much for these suggestions, amp sounds so much fucking better!


----------



## vanhendrix (Mar 28, 2012)

Erazoender said:


> OH MY
> 
> OH MY GOD
> 
> I am beyond lost for words. Thank you so much for these suggestions, amp sounds so much fucking better!



Excellent news dude! Sorry for snapping before. What tubes are you all running now?


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## Erazoender (Mar 28, 2012)

vanhendrix said:


> Excellent news dude! Sorry for snapping before. What tubes are you all running now?



No man no worries I understand the annoyance one can get at teenagers 

I'm running the Mesa 6l6GC as you suggested and 3 Tung Sol 12ax7 and 1 JJ 12at7 (funny how I wanted to avoid both JJ and Tung Sol... lol)

It plays wonderfully now. Still a hint of hiss, but that's just the nature of the beast I guess, and it's hardly audible. The playing feels so much more organic now, leads are really sparkly and smooth and the gain is FAR more usable rather than a load of FZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZHISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZBAAAAAAAAAZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZshit 

Now any suggestions for settings? I'm running the gain at 3:00, mids maxed, presence at around 10:30 and everything else at noon.


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## vanhendrix (Mar 28, 2012)

Erazoender said:


> No man no worries I understand the annoyance one can get at teenagers
> 
> I'm running the Mesa 6l6GC as you suggested and 3 Tung Sol 12ax7 and 1 JJ 12at7 (funny how I wanted to avoid both JJ and Tung Sol... lol)
> 
> ...




For me, running the channel volumes no higher than noon (clean channel excluded) will also smooth things over a bit. I keep mine at around 10:30 - That's why I like to play my amp with the masters so high. I get probably 20% of my gain from the powertubes, which just gives everything a creamy goodness, but only works at that volume. If I turn down, I have to turn the gain up to compensate.

Also, the CTFD mod has clearly claimed another victim. Tell your friends!


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## Pedrojoca (Mar 28, 2012)

Erazoender said:


> OH MY
> 
> OH MY GOD
> 
> I am beyond lost for words. Thank you so much for these suggestions, amp sounds so much fucking better!



YOU, YOU, TELL RIGHT NOW!

what did you do?


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## Pedrojoca (Mar 30, 2012)

(sorry for double post, can't edit the last one)

So far we've come to two VERIFIED tube swaps that do some magic on the amp.

The CTFD mod (preamp tube)
Simple, plain power tube swap, apparently the stock ones are crap 


great stuff


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## Erazoender (Mar 30, 2012)

Pedrojoca said:


> (sorry for double post, can't edit the last one)
> 
> So far we've come to two VERIFIED tube swaps that do some magic on the amp.
> 
> ...





Erazoender said:


> No man no worries I understand the annoyance one can get at teenagers
> 
> I'm running the Mesa 6l6GC as you suggested and 3 Tung Sol 12ax7 and 1 JJ 12at7 (funny how I wanted to avoid both JJ and Tung Sol... lol)
> 
> ...


----------



## vanhendrix (Mar 31, 2012)

Pedrojoca said:


> (sorry for double post, can't edit the last one)
> 
> So far we've come to two VERIFIED tube swaps that do some magic on the amp.
> 
> ...




That is pretty great eh? Both are dirt cheap and require no kind of surgery at all


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## Pedrojoca (Mar 31, 2012)

vanhendrix said:


> That is pretty great eh? Both are dirt cheap and require no kind of surgery at all



yup  oh this thread <3


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## Erazoender (Mar 31, 2012)

Any of you jam with guys using 6505s or other mid HEAVY amps? Curious how this amp holds up against them now..... And I had the pleasure of turning my amp 3/4 of the ways up yesterday and (using earplugs of course) it sounded so tight and you could hear every single note CLEARLY... truly amazing. Curious to hear how it would sound without earplugs though.... bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....


----------



## PrestoDone (Apr 9, 2012)

Great Thread...i Have a Powerball II Coming in tomorrow afternoon....if and when i decide to retube it I will keep the preamp retubing guide in mind.


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## ara_ (Apr 11, 2012)

I'm using a PBII, I think I'm going to order 4 Mesa 6l6 tubes, 3 12ax7 tubes, not sure which brand yet, probably Sovtek, and a TAD 12at7. Did I miss anything?
(Just to make sure, I really don't need to bias the powertubes? What about the quoted paragraph?)


> -Power Section Retubing
> I don't have much info in this section but everyone seems to think that after you retube the power section you get a nicer tone, as ENGL default tubes kind of suck. Also, when biased (as it comes stone cold), you should notice a huge improvement.


----------



## Pedrojoca (Apr 11, 2012)

ara_ said:


> I'm using a PBII, I think I'm going to order 4 Mesa 6l6 tubes, 3 12ax7 tubes, not sure which brand yet, probably Sovtek, and a TAD 12at7. Did I miss anything?
> (Just to make sure, I really don't need to bias the powertubes? What about the quoted paragraph?)



Yes sir!! You got it perfectly right.
The bias part. You would bias the amp for OPTIMAL results, as it can be tweaked to your liking, but it's safe to pop the new 6l6GC in there without biasing and it makes for good results as well


----------



## Erazoender (Apr 11, 2012)

ara_ said:


> I'm using a PBII, I think I'm going to order 4 Mesa 6l6 tubes, 3 12ax7 tubes, not sure which brand yet, probably Sovtek, and a TAD 12at7. Did I miss anything?
> (Just to make sure, I really don't need to bias the powertubes? What about the quoted paragraph?)



Exactly this, I did the Tung Sol 12ax7s but I'm sure Sovtek would be good too. The Mesa 6l6GC's are glorious.


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## Leec (Apr 11, 2012)

ara_ said:


> I'm using a PBII, I think I'm going to order 4 Mesa 6l6 tubes, 3 12ax7 tubes, not sure which brand yet, probably Sovtek, and a TAD 12at7. Did I miss anything?
> (Just to make sure, I really don't need to bias the powertubes? What about the quoted paragraph?)



Mesa don't actually make their own tubes. I can't remember who makes them (I want to say they use several companies, but I can't remember the details), but they're just rebranded tubes. I'm pretty sure most Mesa users swap their tubes out, too. I certainly swapped my TriAxis's tubes out and got much tighter, better results.


----------



## Erazoender (Apr 11, 2012)

Leec said:


> Mesa don't actually make their own tubes. I can't remember who makes them (I want to say they use several companies, but I can't remember the details), but they're just rebranded tubes. I'm pretty sure most Mesa users swap their tubes out, too. I certainly swapped my TriAxis's tubes out and got much tighter, better results.



Interesting. I was looking around for various 6l6 tubes but Ruby were too dark and the JJ's.... ehhhhhh.


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## vanhendrix (Apr 12, 2012)

Erazoender said:


> Interesting. I was looking around for various 6l6 tubes but Ruby were too dark and the JJ's.... ehhhhhh.



Mesas are just tested and rebranded JJs. They work great for me!


----------



## Pedrojoca (Apr 12, 2012)

Many people love the SED "C"s, when i retube mine, i'm really going to have to choose between the rebranded Mesas or the SEDs without trying them


----------



## ara_ (Apr 25, 2012)

Hey again, I'll replace the tubes today (didn't get to it before), I just bought the preamp tubes for now because they're a lot cheaper. I've got 3 Electro-Harmonix 12ax7 tubes and one TAD 12at7. I'll put the 12ax7s in V5, V7 and V8, and the 12at7 in V6, is that right?


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## Pedrojoca (Apr 25, 2012)

ara_ said:


> Hey again, I'll replace the tubes today (didn't get to it before), I just bought the preamp tubes for now because they're a lot cheaper. I've got 3 Electro-Harmonix 12ax7 tubes and one TAD 12at7. I'll put the 12ax7s in V5, V7 and V8, and the 12at7 in V6, is that right?



it is  don't forget you'll have to bring the gain knob a bit higher.


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## ara_ (Apr 25, 2012)

I just got home. It took me a while to change the tubes, I've never done this before and I had to look up which slot was which on the internet (I must have lost the manual...).
It's awesome! I really like the tone now, I can't exactly pinpoint the difference, maybe when I hear myself in band context, especially recorded. I'm not used to hearing this amp alone because I only use it when rehearsing, so this isn't my final rating, but for now, I give this modification 5/5 stars. Cheap, easy to do yourself, big improvement in tone.


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## vanhendrix (Apr 25, 2012)

ara_ said:


> I just got home. It took me a while to change the tubes, I've never done this before and I had to look up which slot was which on the internet (I must have lost the manual...).
> It's awesome! I really like the tone now, I can't exactly pinpoint the difference, maybe when I hear myself in band context, especially recorded. I'm not used to hearing this amp alone because I only use it when rehearsing, so this isn't my final rating, but for now, I give this modification 5/5 stars. Cheap, easy to do yourself, big improvement in tone.



Glad to hear it dude. We're here to help


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## aviel (May 29, 2012)

just a question. i saw in other threads people talking about changing V2 and V4.. anyone tried it?


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## aviel (May 29, 2012)

just a question. i saw in other threads people talking about changing V2 and V4.. anyone tried it?


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## Pedrojoca (May 29, 2012)

aviel said:


> just a question. i saw in other threads people talking about changing V2 and V4.. anyone tried it?



YES! Me and vanhendrix (throughly) tested the possible combinations, including the 12at7 in the V4 (V8 actually, in preamp tubes) and it just underpowered the clean and crunch channel a bit on my case, with no noticeable improvement on the lead channels. Read the last pages of the thread pretty well, the great info is all there.


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## Mikeyprs (Jun 4, 2012)

Can someone either explain (w/ photos) how to get into the PB (V1) and change tubes over? either i'm shit and can't use google properly, or that there doesn't seem to be decent online resource of which to find out how to get into the amp to do the changes? 

I'd really like to reduce the rediculous amount of hiss from the amp (unless that's just the nature of the beast, I know i won't kill all of it... just would prefer to reduce it by as much as possible) and all the while dealing with the compression and gain levels....


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## vanhendrix (Jun 5, 2012)

Mikeyprs said:


> Can someone either explain (w/ photos) how to get into the PB (V1) and change tubes over? either i'm shit and can't use google properly, or that there doesn't seem to be decent online resource of which to find out how to get into the amp to do the changes?
> 
> I'd really like to reduce the rediculous amount of hiss from the amp (unless that's just the nature of the beast, I know i won't kill all of it... just would prefer to reduce it by as much as possible) and all the while dealing with the compression and gain levels....



Hang in with me here, I'm not the best with posting pics. But you want to start off by opening the back of the amp. Here are the screws to remove:


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## vanhendrix (Jun 5, 2012)

And here's the owners' manual:

http://www.englamps.de/fileadmin/user_upload/Manuals/English/OM_E645_Powerball.pdf


Page 6 gives an overhead view of the tubes. The bigger ones (V1-V4) are obviously the powertubes V5-V8 are the ones this thread primarily focuses on.

And as for hiss, I replaced my powertubes with Mesa 6L6GCs (straight swap, no biasing) as did someone else in this thread. We've both seen an improvement just from taking out the old stock tubes. Also, running the channel volumes lower with the masters up high will tame this a bit as well. Then there's the presence knob....but that's a whole other thread.


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## Mikeyprs (Jun 11, 2012)

Thanks for the picture VanHendrix - that's pretty much confirmed my suspicions haha!
thanks for the PB OM too however, I already downloaded it well before I bought the amp from a guitarist of a local band near where i live. LOL I studied the damn thing soo many times to trying to work out how to get it channel switched via my G Major effects processor. - just to confirm though, it's definately the V6 preamp tube you guy's have been chaning with great but various result's shall we say???


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## Pedrojoca (Jun 11, 2012)

Mikeyprs said:


> Thanks for the picture VanHendrix - that's pretty much confirmed my suspicions haha!
> thanks for the PB OM too however, I already downloaded it well before I bought the amp from a guitarist of a local band near where i live. LOL I studied the damn thing soo many times to trying to work out how to get it channel switched via my G Major effects processor. - just to confirm though, it's definately the V6 preamp tube you guy's have been chaning with great but various result's shall we say???



yes sir, the V6, that is, the second preamp tube from left to right (front view)


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## Mikeyprs (Jun 11, 2012)

Awesome stuff!! I plan on grabbing a couple different brands of the 12AT7 tube (if i'm not mistaken) and testing out of which i think sound best to my ears as well as replacing the powertubes... but I think i'll take it one step at a time haha!


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## PrestoDone (Jun 15, 2012)

I Have a quick question....What is the difference and what do you guys prefer for the power amp tubes....JJ or Winged C? Also for the Pre Amp....I'm going to retube my powerball II soon but am not sure what the differences in sound were. Thanks Guys


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## Pedrojoca (Jun 16, 2012)

PrestoDone said:


> I Have a quick question....What is the difference and what do you guys prefer for the power amp tubes....JJ or Winged C? Also for the Pre Amp....I'm going to retube my powerball II soon but am not sure what the differences in sound were. Thanks Guys



IMO, you should read up on the thread, we've pretty much found the "best" combination so far


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## Erazoender (Jun 16, 2012)

I'm using the Mesa 6l6's at the moment, in the future I want to try KT88's or EL34s.


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## aviel (Aug 19, 2012)

Hey guys, popping up an old thread.. i changed a while ago my v6 to a EH 12at7 and was fairly happy, i think i will order a TAD 12at7, all the rest are stock tubes, shall i change something else? or buy other 12 AX7 to put in the amp insted of stock tubes? the TAD arent that cheap, so buying 4 TAD (3 12ax7 and one 12at7) will be something like 120$..


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## Pedrojoca (Aug 19, 2012)

aviel said:


> Hey guys, popping up an old thread.. i changed a while ago my v6 to a EH 12at7 and was fairly happy, i think i will order a TAD 12at7, all the rest are stock tubes, shall i change something else? or buy other 12 AX7 to put in the amp insted of stock tubes? the TAD arent that cheap, so buying 4 TAD (3 12ax7 and one 12at7) will be something like 120$..



What? 4 TAD tubes are about 50 bucks  12AT7 / ECC81 TAD Premium Selected (balanced) - TAD Pre Amp Tubes SELECTE

Anyways, here's my suggestion for optimal results:

V5: JJ 12ax7 (less fizz)
V6: TAD 12at7 
V7: Stock ENGL 12ax7 (or the amp will be a bit too dark)
V8: JJ 12ax7 balanced


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## aviel (Aug 20, 2012)

thats pissing me off. here one TAD 12ax7 is sold for 25$.
and are the stock power amp tubes good enough?


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## Pedrojoca (Aug 20, 2012)

aviel said:


> thats pissing me off. here one TAD 12ax7 is sold for 25$.
> and are the stock power amp tubes good enough?



why not order online?

I'm not sure what to tell you about powertubes. Here's the thing, most people with a powerball use V30s, my cab has V60 which are way less fizzy and have the mid spike shifted down, so i'm not sure if after the preamp tube change it is necessary, with V30s, to further make any changes.

Anyway, the second main discovery here was when Erazoender and vanhendrix simply switched their power tubes to Mesa 6l6, and it seems to do wonders. But really man, i've said this a couple of times along the thread, read the whole thing, you'll understand what we've been doing and testing.


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## vanhendrix (Aug 20, 2012)

Pedrojoca said:


> why not order online?
> 
> I'm not sure what to tell you about powertubes. Here's the thing, most people with a powerball use V30s, my cab has V60 which are way less fizzy and have the mid spike shifted down, so i'm not sure if after the preamp tube change it is necessary, with V30s, to further make any changes.
> 
> Anyway, the second main discovery here was when Erazoender and vanhendrix simply switched their power tubes to Mesa 6l6, and it seems to do wonders. But really man, i've said this a couple of times along the thread, read the whole thing, you'll understand what we've been doing and testing.



Do you think there's any way that the mods will let you change the first post? I know the option to edit is gone, but maybe they have the power....I love that this thread is helping people, but it's annoying saying the same thing over and over. 

I use a Mesa AT7 in V6 (or stock) and Mesa 6L6GC powertubes. Mesa tubes are tested and rebranded TAD tubes. Swap without biasing, enjoy.


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## aviel (Aug 20, 2012)

Yes i read it all for a few times, but i wasn't sure if someone had more recent conclusion..
I've been searching for TAD 12at7 on ebay, and no one seems to sell them, only on the TAD website. strange thing.


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## vanhendrix (Aug 20, 2012)

Remember now:




vanhendrix said:


> Do you think there's any way that the mods will let you change the first post? I know the option to edit is gone, but maybe they have the power....I love that this thread is helping people, but it's annoying saying the same thing over and over.
> 
> I use a Mesa AT7 in V6 (or stock) and Mesa 6L6GC powertubes. _*Mesa tubes are just tested and rebranded TAD tubes.*_ Swap without biasing, enjoy.


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## Pedrojoca (Aug 20, 2012)

aviel said:


> Yes i read it all for a few times, but i wasn't sure if someone had more recent conclusion..
> I've been searching for TAD 12at7 on ebay, and no one seems to sell them, only on the TAD website. strange thing.



just order them from there


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## craincrizzy (Aug 25, 2012)

Hello right now i have a total jj setup in my powerball power & preamp (the guy i bought it from had set it up). They were pretty aged so i have a jj/TAD/jj/jj preamp setup im going to install. If i replace the power tubes with mesas will i have to rebias the amp? I have no experience doing so so i just needed to know if i needed to take it to a tech.


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## Pedrojoca (Aug 25, 2012)

craincrizzy said:


> Hello right now i have a total jj setup in my powerball power & preamp (the guy i bought it from had set it up). They were pretty aged so i have a jj/TAD/jj/jj preamp setup im going to install. If i replace the power tubes with mesas will i have to rebias the amp? I have no experience doing so so i just needed to know if i needed to take it to a tech.



some people here on the thread have done it successfully without biasing. Give it a go!


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## USMarine75 (Aug 25, 2012)

FWIW I def recommend the 12AT7 in the PI slot. It made the gain on my FB100 and 5150 so much more usable. Best and cheapest mod I ever did. Usually it seems like anything over 5 or 6 sounds the same but not with that mod it makes it usable all the way to 10.


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## Pedrojoca (Aug 25, 2012)

USMarine75 said:


> FWIW I def recommend the 12AT7 in the PI slot. It made the gain on my FB100 and 5150 so much more usable. Best and cheapest mod I ever did. Usually it seems like anything over 5 or 6 sounds the same but not with that mod it makes it usable all the way to 10.



hmm weird. when i tried it in the PI I didn't notice much difference.


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## craincrizzy (Aug 27, 2012)

Ok so today I replaced my powerball preamps with the jj,TAD,jj,jj setup and as soon as I took the amp off of standby all I heard was a buzzing and the guitar sound coming thru at low volume. Does that mean that one of my new tubes are defective? Just to cover this base I bought my last jj which is suppose to be balanced on ebay with the label BALANCED TRIODES. That does mean it is balanced as needed correct? Thanks in advance.


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## craincrizzy (Aug 27, 2012)

Nm found the bad one. All I can say is wow! That TAD 12at7 in V6 made a world of difference. So glad I found this thread and I appreciate you guys that took the time to find these great setups.


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## Pedrojoca (Aug 29, 2012)

craincrizzy said:


> Nm found the bad one. All I can say is wow! That TAD 12at7 in V6 made a world of difference. So glad I found this thread and I appreciate you guys that took the time to find these great setups.



ah, nice to see another happy story . Got a bit worried about your last post, though, you coudld have accidently misplaced a tube.


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## vanhendrix (Aug 31, 2012)

Guys, bad news. My amp shut down one of the Mesa 6L6s today after really not using them all that much. I have never ever had the monitoring system kick in with the stock tubes, so I'm starting to wonder if that "swap without bias" tip that the engl people gave me was a load of shit.

Stay tuned for updates


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## Pedrojoca (Aug 31, 2012)

vanhendrix said:


> Guys, bad news. My amp shut down one of the Mesa 6L6s today after really not using them all that much. I have never ever had the monitoring system kick in with the stock tubes, so I'm starting to wonder if that "swap without bias" tip that the engl people gave me was a load of shit.
> 
> Stay tuned for updates



 mmm... research time.


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## vanhendrix (Sep 2, 2012)

Pedrojoca said:


> mmm... research time.



Nevermind, after playing it a bunch more times nothing has gone wrong. Perhaps a fluke? I have never seen the monitor system shut a tube down though, it was weird.


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## Bodes (Nov 5, 2012)

Sorry to re-bump an oldish thread but have been reading this thread in anticipation of buying my Powerball II.

Now I have the amp, I like it, but is missing that warmth. Could be the fact I have stupid EMG 81's in my guitar as well. Have some Ormsby pickups coming very soon and have decided to go for your jj 12ax7, TAD 12at7, jj 12ax7, jj 12ax7 set-up.

Once has arrived I will let you know my thoughts. Thanks for your testing of different tubes.

May go down the route of changing to the Mesa 6l6GC powertubes, but let's try the cheaper "MOD" first!


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## Pedrojoca (Nov 6, 2012)

Bodes said:


> Sorry to re-bump an oldish thread but have been reading this thread in anticipation of buying my Powerball II.
> 
> Now I have the amp, I like it, but is missing that warmth. Could be the fact I have stupid EMG 81's in my guitar as well. Have some Ormsby pickups coming very soon and have decided to go for your jj 12ax7, TAD 12at7, jj 12ax7, jj 12ax7 set-up.
> 
> ...



don't worry about the bump mate, I think these "specific product" threads are OK with it 
Do it, if you're looking for a more organic sound, this is the way to go!


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## Bodes (Nov 9, 2012)

Tubes came in the mail today, put them in, and HOLY MOTHER OF CHRIST... So much smoother and can run that gain up til 1:30 before it gets crackly. This only at "annoy neighbours slightly" volume.

Need to play around with it some more to get some ideal setting but I had many more sounds that I could actually dial, instead of that one "good" sound on each channel!

Thicker strings will be put on my guitar (currently using 10-46, wimpy, I know ) to make the low end come out a little more.

*tips hat to the CTFD mod*

Thanks Pedrojoca and vanhendrix!


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## ihunda (Nov 9, 2012)

By mods I wasn't expecting just changing tubes...
Any schematic mods anyone knows off?


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## Pedrojoca (Nov 9, 2012)

ihunda said:


> By mods I wasn't expecting just changing tubes...
> Any schematic mods anyone knows off?



sorry, i don't know any. we felt the need to call these mods because of the impact they have on the overall tone of the amp. Even the "light" mod, just changing up preamp tubes with combinations we thoroughly tested makes for a positiva change 


Bodes, you're welcome  it makes me happy to know that more people are trying this.


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## Nonservium (Nov 29, 2012)

Just wanted to say thanks, there's some good info in this thread. 

I picked up a 12at7 and put it in V6 but didn't see much of a difference so I'm gonna hunt down a few more tubes and play around. You guys rule for doing all this legwork!


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## Pedrojoca (Nov 29, 2012)

Nonservium said:


> Just wanted to say thanks, there's some good info in this thread.
> 
> I picked up a 12at7 and put it in V6 but didn't see much of a difference so I'm gonna hunt down a few more tubes and play around. You guys rule for doing all this legwork!



really? that strange, not even the gain drop?


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## Nonservium (Nov 29, 2012)

Not that I could tell right off the bat. I'm gonna A/B it tonight and make sure.


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## Nonservium (Nov 29, 2012)

_



Ok, so upon further review it did shape the tone quite a bit differently once I had ample time to monkey around with eq and what-not. I'm just not sure its a change I like. I've A/B'd it twice now, once round with my RGD2120 and again with my RG7620. Both have BKP's but different sets and while I like some aspects of the change it results in a more harsh sound than I think I was expecting. So far the Aftermath in my 7 seems to go better with it than the Holydiver in my 6.

Just messing around for a bit I used my Strat on channel 3 with the gain right between 10 and 11 o'clock, its got a nice fat crunch with the single coil laces.

What guitars/pups were you guys using on this particular set up?

Click to expand...

_
This is what I had in here previously ^ but I went back and re-read a PM from vanhendrix and:

I was not sure I liked this change...upon cranking the mid's much more than I was used to and killing the presence altogether all I can say is WOW. The EQ seems to have to be quite different for the 12AT7 in V6 than the stock set up but damn, the sound really is much more organic . I would also caution anyone trying this in a lower tuning or drop tuning to turn the Depth/Punch down and color to taste. I'm liking that fizz being gone..


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## vanhendrix (Nov 30, 2012)

Nonservium said:


> This is what I had in here previously ^ but I went back and re-read a PM from vanhendrix and:
> 
> I was not sure I liked this change...upon cranking the mid's much more than I was used to and killing the presence altogether all I can say is WOW. The EQ seems to have to be quite different for the 12AT7 in V6 than the stock set up but damn, the sound really is much more organic . I would also caution anyone trying this in a lower tuning or drop tuning to turn the Depth/Punch down and color to taste. I'm liking that fizz being gone..


 
Another satisfied customer of the CTFD mod. Tell your friends!

Also, here's some food for thought:

Today I was dicking around with my amps and I realized that there was something that I hadn't tried yet......running the effects loop send of my powerball into the effects loop return of my Marshall JVM. Effectively creating a powerball with EL34s. I don't know what I was really hoping for but it basically ended up sounding exactly the same. Worse, if anything. I know this isn't exactly a scientific experiment but for anyone thinking of doing some mega surgery to their powerball to run 34s.....maybe think again?


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## BrianC85 (Dec 1, 2012)

I have got to say that the CTFD mod is amazing. Such a simple change has caused me to love this amp that much more. I never had much of a problem with the amp before hand as I had most of the fizz dialed out. But afterwards; All I can say is wow! Completely opened up the amp to what I was wanting and didnt even know. I also had to adjust the Depth Punch significantly but it feels like it breathes more now than ever.

No other changes other than putting a JJ12AT7 in V6. Couldnt ask for a cheaper/easier mod.


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## vanhendrix (Jan 5, 2013)

Well guys, I was finally able to get the band back together so I brought my PB down as well as my JVM. This is the first time I've been able to play with anyone in a while, so the problem hadn't even become apparent yet.

Anyways, as soon as we power on, right away I notice that the powerball is fucking QUIET. Like 10 watts, max. I have absolutely no idea what's going on, but with the volumes wide open, it's still being blown away by my friend's 5153 MINI. Obviously I hadn't noticed this back at home because I never bothered to play at earplug-level, although I did have an inkling that the JVM was much louder. Luckily I also had that Marshall with me, but this is seriously concerning.

I tried swapping the power tubes back to the engl ones (my GOD do they sound bad), but it didn't fix the volume. I also tried swapping my V5 around, but that did nothing. I am seriously at a loss as to what's causing the problem. (Yes, I checked the loop). Anyone else come across something like this?


Edit: Well now I know what the phase inverter tube does....everything is fixed. False alarm, everybody calm down. It was interesting to A/B the stock tubes though. It was like putting a bee hive in the goddamn amp. CTFD mod FTW.


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## Pedrojoca (Jan 6, 2013)

vanhendrix said:


> Well guys, I was finally able to get the band back together so I brought my PB down as well as my JVM. This is the first time I've been able to play with anyone in a while, so the problem hadn't even become apparent yet.
> 
> Anyways, as soon as we power on, right away I notice that the powerball is fucking QUIET. Like 10 watts, max. I have absolutely no idea what's going on, but with the volumes wide open, it's still being blown away by my friend's 5153 MINI. Obviously I hadn't noticed this back at home because I never bothered to play at earplug-level, although I did have an inkling that the JVM was much louder. Luckily I also had that Marshall with me, but this is seriously concerning.
> 
> ...



The story solved itself . What did you have on the PI slot? On the CTFD we left that one as it was. 

By the way, were there any side effects to the volume loss? I wouldn't mine putting the PB down to bedroom levels someday.


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## vanhendrix (Jan 6, 2013)

Pedrojoca said:


> The story solved itself . What did you have on the PI slot? On the CTFD we left that one as it was.
> 
> By the way, were there any side effects to the volume loss? I wouldn't mine putting the PB down to bedroom levels someday.



Well I tried swapping the V1-V4s, V5 and V6, then finally V8. I was just shooting in the dark because my other theory was that the bias had drifted SO cold that the amp was hardly outputing anything anymore. Thank god that wasn't the problem. Right now I'm back to running the Mesa AT7 in the V6 with stock preamp tubes otherwise. And of course the Mesa power tubes.

As for any side effects, honestly I don't see any. I have NO IDEA what went wrong in the tube that this could happen, but as I said, I didn't even notice that I had a problem until I tried to jam with it. Funny you should ask about that because the other guitar player actually said "dude, you just created the best bedroom amp of all time". No thanks! 

Edit again: After typing that I went and fished the blown tube out of my garbage. It might be handy do have something that's a dead easy swap to knock the volume of a 100 watt amp down to reasonable levels. Hell, I'd probably buy one of these if they were for sale....


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## Pedrojoca (Jan 6, 2013)

vanhendrix said:


> Well I tried swapping the V1-V4s, V5 and V6, then finally V8. I was just shooting in the dark because my other theory was that the bias had drifted SO cold that the amp was hardly outputing anything anymore. Thank god that wasn't the problem. Right now I'm back to running the Mesa AT7 in the V6 with stock preamp tubes otherwise. And of course the Mesa power tubes.
> 
> As for any side effects, honestly I don't see any. I have NO IDEA what went wrong in the tube that this could happen, but as I said, I didn't even notice that I had a problem until I tried to jam with it. Funny you should ask about that because the other guitar player actually said "dude, you just created the best bedroom amp of all time". No thanks!
> 
> Edit again: After typing that I went and fished the blown tube out of my garbage. It might be handy do have something that's a dead easy swap to knock the volume of a 100 watt amp down to reasonable levels. Hell, I'd probably buy one of these if they were for sale....



but what tube was it?


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## will_shred (Jan 6, 2013)

can someone tell me what a fair price for a used powerball in good shape is? (doesn't need to be retubed, ect.) 

or what a fair price of one in near mint condition is?


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## vanhendrix (Jan 6, 2013)

Pedrojoca said:


> but what tube was it?



The faulty one? Just one of the stock AX7s. I stuck one of the other stock ones I had lying around in there and I was back in business.


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## Pedrojoca (Jan 6, 2013)

will_shred said:


> can someone tell me what a fair price for a used powerball in good shape is? (doesn't need to be retubed, ect.)
> 
> or what a fair price of one in near mint condition is?



EDIT: In europe, 900-1000 bucks is a really cool deal
In the states, i'd say around 1600


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## Chuckzoor (Jan 14, 2013)

The TAD 12at7 in v6 is a gorgeous change , You will not be disapointed !!
I'm playing progressive (djenty) stuff and this mods brings me CLARITY, which is very important for my tone !!!
However, i want to know with which models I can replace the 3 others 12ax7!


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## Erazoender (Jan 14, 2013)

will_shred said:


> can someone tell me what a fair price for a used powerball in good shape is? (doesn't need to be retubed, ect.)
> 
> or what a fair price of one in near mint condition is?



Powerball 1 or 2? 

I sold my PB 1 V2 for 1250 with a controller being previously retubed... though that was to a close friend of mine as a gift of sorts. ;P


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## Pedrojoca (Jan 15, 2013)

Chuckzoor said:


> The TAD 12at7 in v6 is a gorgeous change , You will not be disapointed !!
> I'm playing progressive (djenty) stuff and this mods brings me CLARITY, which is very important for my tone !!!
> However, i want to know with which models I can replace the 3 others 12ax7!



Don't replace the other ones, you're better off with them being 12ax7. We've tested this extensively. If you would like to further enhance the amp after adding the 12at7 in V6, replace the power tubes. Some people have had great results with mesa 6L6GC.


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## Mikeyprs (Jan 28, 2013)

Well...boys and girls! I've finally pulled the trigger on a JJ 12AT7 tube for the V6 spot... just gotta wait for it to arrive then i shall fight my way into the powerball and attempt to pop her in the v6 slot n see what happens! =)


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## Mikeyprs (Feb 1, 2013)

Powerball V1 with a JJ 12AT7 in the v6 = f***ing amazing! I love the tonal difference i'm getting out of the amp now, the cleans are alot cleaner and warmer, the crunch is better but not brilliant imo, but the two gain channels 3 & 4 sound superb to me! I've recorded some before and after riffs on the other computer where you can hear quite a noticeable difference, I used ola englund's settings that he dialled in for the test. SM57 pointed on axis, where the cap meets the cone (for the recording nerds).

i've since dialled in the settings suggestions by someone here for the 12AT7 in the amp, with a couple tweaks to taste and i gotta say, i can't wait to play this thing live, or even in the practise space haha


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## trikmorgan (Feb 23, 2013)

Hi folks. I need help! I have read the entire thread. Great info and may I say it is heart warming to see a community working together for better results. Really, too much crap in the world and just glimmers of kindness like this really hold my head above water since things have been rather down in my world. Anyway,

I have an ENGL PB, V1 I believe. I bought it used and can't remember how long the previous owner had it but I can say that none of the tubes had been changed for about 8 years! (all stock apart from one preamp tube I swapped that was faulty). Now, after doing the research (24 hours straight!) on how important tubes are to the sound and even "feel" of the amp (or responsiveness) I decided it was well overdue. I had been having some issues that I hope the change will at least minimise as well as revitalise. 

So I took the stock tubes out and put in a matched quad 6l6GC JJ's, and in the preamp;
1 (v5) - JJ ECC83/ECC83S
2 (v6) - TAD 12AX7A-C
3 (v7) - JJ ECC83/ECC83S
4 (v8) - HARMA ECC83-STR BALANCED

ALL tubes are cryogenically treated and apparently were tested before and after and rated for quality. 

The amp hasn't been biased so I intend to do this (with my dads help as he is an electronics engineer and I am not!) but I'm half suspecting that the bias is cold. I have seen mention of this a few times with regard to the ENGL PB and I also feel like the amp should "give more" as I'm cranking it during testing and not really getting great oomph from it (great technical terms here i know :/...) BUT I understand that it shouldn't absolutely need to be re-biased since the tubes should match the safe operating of the PB. I will optimise it though soon. 

So, here's the thing. I plugged in, switched the amp on, left it in standby for 10m (while my body tingled with anticipation), then I flipped the standby switch and left it another 5m with volume at 0. First thing, no sound :/. As it turns out, the first pre-amp tube hadn't seated properly, i simply jiggled it a little and switched back on and hey presto. (a little worried that the tube socket may be a little dodgy but...it seems ok for the moment). 

The MAIN issue now is.....it sounds terrible!!! I've lost all the bite. The mids are massive (in a bad way) drowning the sound into a mushy mess. I can't say much about the high gain channels as after 11-12O'clock its just a mess. I think it gets even more messy cranking the gain further as expected but it really is hard to tell. The high mids that give you the bite have all but gone and I can crank both the presence AND treble up on all channels and none of them bother my ears where as they should be ear drum piercing squeels from hell with that EQ setting!! I'm thinking I have maybe chosen a set of tubes that ALL roll of high ends to "smooth" them out and basically it's become saturated in the mids and lows. I also tried a couple of preamp combinations leaving the 4th (v8) tube as this is a balanced tube. I also swapped the 1st (v5) tube for a tung-sol 12AX7 but I couldn't tell if there was much improvement, either way it still sounded crap! Can anyone help? Similar experiences? Suggestions? 

I was soooo looking forward to this and now I'm worried I may have to fork out for even more tubes and I have very little money :'(.

Thank you all in advance and again great thread!

BTW, this is my first post on any forum...ever!


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## Pedrojoca (Feb 24, 2013)

trikmorgan said:


> Hi folks. I need help! I have read the entire thread. Great info and may I say it is heart warming to see a community working together for better results. Really, too much crap in the world and just glimmers of kindness like this really hold my head above water since things have been rather down in my world. Anyway,



Well, you definetly should try biasing, but the presence+treble to the max part really leads me to believe that just biasing will make much of a difference. I suggest you get the combination we tried here. Although I am hesitant to point out the problem since you're basically in an all 12ax7 preamp. It should sound fine. I'd point to the power tubes, as the main culpirit, but since you don't have the possibility of buying new stuff, try the following:

Did the power tubes come in matched pairs? If they did, there should be a pair on V1-V2 and another in V3-V4, if you don't remember it, switch them up and see if it solves the problem.

Mix the preamp tubes (except for the balanced one) and see what difference it makes. (That balanced one might aswell be the problem since I remember testing mine with a crappy tube on that slot and it was horrid.)

Check your fx loop, it may not be on Dry mode (0%), who knows.

Next time you should research before retubing mate


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## vanhendrix (Feb 24, 2013)

That is a dilly of a pickle. As always, check the mid open/focused button. That one always seems to move of its own accord and is the first thing I check if my sound isn't happening.

Second, it sounds to me like what you're describing could be the result of an underperforming v5 (first) preamp tube. I want to say that it seems like you're trying to make the amp compensate for a bunch of signal loss on the front end, which is making the rest of it squish down. 

Worth a shot?


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## trikmorgan (Feb 24, 2013)

to Pedrojoca:

Thanks for the quick reply! 
I did in fact do the research. That 24 hour stretch of reading up on tubes was leading up to buying new ones. The FX loop is indeed all the way dry. The power tubes came as a "matched quad" so it shouldn't matter what order they go in BUT I intend to switch em around a little just on the odd chance something isn't right there. I actually was trying to buy tubes based on your results here but gettin the exact set would have been very costly for me so I had to make some compromise. I felt that they should have given me a similar result though and certainly not turn out like this! :/.

to Vanhendrix:

Thanks to you also for the quick response! 
I have already swapped the preamp tubes around just to see if they had different results but not much between them. Then I swapped the v5 (1st) tube with a new tung-sol 12AX7 I had spare from a while ago and it didn't seem to change things. 
I also tried the mid open/focus with various EQ settings and volume levels etc, thanks for the suggestions!

Here's what I plan to do after which I will post again to give my results:
1) change the v8 (4th tube - phase inverter) with a regular preamp tube, simply as an experiment, maybe that tube isn't functioning properly etc. 
2) Mess around with the power tube order. Again they are a matched quad and so should work in any position but I will listen for any changes.
3) Swap the old tubes back in. This could take a while. What I will do is try the old power tubes (maybe 2 of them in 1 & 4 then switch them around to 2 & 3 to check for faulty new tubes) then an old preamp tube (one of them) testing each position for a faulty tube also playing with the tube order.
4) Re-bias the amp!! The only reason this isn't number 1 on the list is we are waiting for an adapter that we need to check and set the bias. My dad even spoke of placing an adjustable pot on the back of the amp so that I can freely adjust and experiment. This means setting a minimum and max value inside the safe zone e.g. min = 40% max = 85% or something along those lines. Once rebiased, unless the amp springs to life and problem is solved I will go through the same testing and swapping I did before the re-biasing.

Any more suggestions or anyone with similar experiences etc, keep posting!

Many thanks!!!!!!!


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## vanhendrix (Feb 24, 2013)

trikmorgan said:


> to Pedrojoca:
> 
> Thanks for the quick reply!
> I did in fact do the research. That 24 hour stretch of reading up on tubes was leading up to buying new ones. The FX loop is indeed all the way dry. The power tubes came as a "matched quad" so it shouldn't matter what order they go in BUT I intend to switch em around a little just on the odd chance something isn't right there. I actually was trying to buy tubes based on your results here but gettin the exact set would have been very costly for me so I had to make some compromise. I felt that they should have given me a similar result though and certainly not turn out like this! :/.
> ...


 
Well if there's a problem with the power tubes then they would almost certainly be shut down by the failsafe system on the front. I'd say focus on the preamp tubes for sure. I run all regular mesa ax7s in mine (includind the phase inverter) except for the V6 of course, and I have no issues.

Another thing that could cause this weirdness is if your amp isn't getting enough power to begin with. One time I jammed with mine in an area of questionable power (the basement of a strip club...yeah) and things were totally weird until the power conditioner came to save the day. Now I never leave home without it.


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## trikmorgan (Feb 28, 2013)

Well....sad development I'm afraid :'(. I tried various things (see list above). Still haven't got the adapter to make the bias probe but after going through several avenues I resorted to putting all the old tubes back in the way it was before any changes...
I have expressed the lack of life now coming from the amp, lack of volume, lack of hugh end etc. With the old tubes back in it seems to have changed nothing. I think this can only mean that since removing the amp head from it's enclosure something has happened rendering the amp lifeless. Can you guys help at all??? It basically operates as I have said, lack of volume: It should "kick in" at around 8:30-9:00 o'clock and become uncomfortable for the ear in a smallish room at around 11-1 o'clock (approaching gig volume) and I can crank it to full and almost be able to talk over it with a loud voice...
Missing high end: The bite has gone and again I can crank the treble AND presence all the way up full and only just be reaching a point where high mids and treble are affecting tone whereas they should be glass shatteringly painful tones. 
Please, are there any forums, any amp techs out there that may recognise the symptoms and be able to tell me what has most likely happened?

I would LOVE to take it to a qualified tech and have it serviced but I'm barely buying food! Please, any help, advice, etc I will be ever grateful and of course share the findings/results here.


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## 1b4n3z (Mar 1, 2013)

Power tube going out might take the screen resistor (or resistors) with it, which just might cause the problems mentioned here. If there were several dysfunctional resistors you might only be running one or two power tubes and I highly doubt the A/B class operation works all that great then


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## Mikeyprs (Mar 4, 2013)

_"If there are four power tubes they are often in matched pairs - inner pair, and outer pair. Replace the inner pair, then the outer pair, rather than go left-to-right._" -Micky Z

This quote was taken from a website called Guitarhow.com specifically from a section called basic tube amp maintenance (a quick google search should suffice if you wish to check this out for yourself).

It also kinda rings true for me as I recently learnt something like this from a facebook group page called Guitar Nerds when they were talking about power tubes and stuff. it's also useful knowledge for me too when i can afford to change the power tubes in my Powerball V1. 

All i did to put in a 12at7 in the v6 was undo the back and carefully reach my arm in (of course i used a clean, dry cloth for handling the tube with) and gently pull the old tube out in a circular motion and then line up the pins carefully and gently push the new one in again in a circular motion and bobs your uncle fanny's your aunt i've changed a preamp tube woohoo!

So i don't know how or why you needed to pull the amp from it's chassis trik =/


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## trikmorgan (Apr 4, 2013)

@ Mikeyprs:
Thanks for your post dude! . I had to take out the amp from the enclosure to bias the amp and it makes cleaning sockets, swapping tubes and any other servicing...well...possible lol. 


OK guys, its been a while but basically, there were a few problems. 
1) I had an intermittent connection, couldn't see which solder joint was bad (on the v4 socket) but I re-soldered all pins and that seems to have solved that. 
2) I also RE-RE-RE cleaned and scraped the tube socket pin gripes and tightened them to ensure good connection which helped with the preamp tubes. The first preamp tube (v5) is a little temperamental but seems ok for the moment after cleaning/tightening. If it is still problematic I'll swap the socket. 
3) ...it's a little embarrassing but in the interest of knowledge for whom it might help; I make my own cables ya see, now, for the most part (here's my best tony the tiger impression) THHEEEEEEEEY'RE GREAT!.....BUT  just out of curiosity I used a multimeter on all the cables I was using and found that there was some resistance across some of them. This was weird,  I thought they either worked, didn't work or cut in and out from a dodgy connection. I re-checked connections and checked any pressure points e.g. in the right angle plugs where the wires run through the right angle and all is well with the cables now, completely open circuit which basically solved the REMAINING volume issue. 
5) Amp was ok for the most part and I'm playing away for about....3 hours. Anyway, I switch the standby and decide to let it cool before switching off when I noticed that the filament in v8 was not glowing and the tube was stone cold :S, somehow I was running on 3 tubes. The tube failure circuit didn't light the warning LED so...not sure what was happening there. With some persuation (wiggling etc) the filament would light and the tube would warm but after 10 mins playing it would be off again. Suspecting the tube socket that I'd re-soldered I swapped the tube to another position and to my surprise it did the same in the other position so, I sent the tube back and after 2 weeks I finally have the new one, plugged in, warmed, played for 10 mins, no problems and the amp has plenty of life again so....I think problem (or more accurately, problems) solved!. 

Now...it could just be me but since I took the head out of the enclosure I'm pretty sure there is more mechanical rattle than usual (if there was any to start with, I'm not sure) and some "fizz" for lack of better description from the cab. No it isn't crossover distortion, the amp is properly biased for good headroom but not particularly cold. The rattle sounds like its coming from the input transformer (possibly also the output transformer). Could this have happened while trying the get the amp head out? It was stuck in there pretty good!! so....I'm startin to think I'm just lookin for trouble now :S 

Cheers guys! Sorry for the essay, thanks for reading and for any and all of your help!!  I am humbled.

Keep posting


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## Stooly (Apr 26, 2013)

trik,
I had some of the same symptoms as you on a Powerball that I bought on Ebay for $830 . It was fine for the first 3 days I had it but it cut off at practice to half volume. I wasn't worried since I already had tubes on the way and assumed that the tubes were the culprit.
After I started the tube swap, I noticed the really loose preamp tube sockets (shorting) and even a couple of solder joints on the PCB that looked suspect. I resoldered those, cleaned with De-oxit and tightened the preamp tube pin holders. Now all is well with full power and no more loose, shorting sockets! It seems this may be a common problem with these amps.....always tighten the pin holders within the sockets and clean with De-oxit....check!
On another note, I tried a JJ 12AT7 in the V6 position and at first glance it didn't seem to make difference because the JJ 12AX7 I had in first I had to turn the gain to 1 o'clock to get enough gain.....which seems a bit strange since I was running at about 10:30 before the swap. Bias is at 31mA.....


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## Stooly (Apr 30, 2013)

Update: The lower gain turned out to be a nearly dead battery in my guitar  After the battery change the 12AT7 tube in V6 made a huge tone difference. More clarity and the sizzle is a lot less pronounced. It also seems to have tightened the bottom end up. Thanks for the information and the time you guys put in testing....


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## Pedrojoca (May 1, 2013)

Stooly said:


> Update: The lower gain turned out to be a nearly dead battery in my guitar  After the battery change the 12AT7 tube in V6 made a huge tone difference. More clarity and the sizzle is a lot less pronounced. It also seems to have tightened the bottom end up. Thanks for the information and the time you guys put in testing....



you're welcome  glad you enjoyed it


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## Stooly (May 23, 2013)

At my last gig my Powerball suddenly cut out in the middle of a song. No power tubes lights were on. I checked all my cables first, guitar etc. No luck. Then I switched the amp to standby and back on.....bam, back in business. Fresh tubes from Doug's tubes and properly biased. I checked the tube sockets and everything else as much as I could. I can't see a reason for the problem..... I'm not sure about the reliability at this point. I might have to take it to a tech to have it checked with a fresh set of eyes. Any ideas?


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## Pedrojoca (May 23, 2013)

Stooly said:


> At my last gig my Powerball suddenly cut out in the middle of a song. No power tubes lights were on. I checked all my cables first, guitar etc. No luck. Then I switched the amp to standby and back on.....bam, back in business. Fresh tubes from Doug's tubes and properly biased. I checked the tube sockets and everything else as much as I could. I can't see a reason for the problem..... I'm not sure about the reliability at this point. I might have to take it to a tech to have it checked with a fresh set of eyes. Any ideas?



Even though it was solved when you flicked the standby on, it could be something happening at the same time, since you've reported issues with the battery before. Is this a Powerball I or II ?


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## Stooly (May 24, 2013)

It's a Powerball I.When it happened, I tried changing guitars, and checked all the cord connections and it wouldn't come back on. no sound at all. I clicked the amp to standby and back and had full power again and played 4-5 more songs without an issue.


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## vanhendrix (May 24, 2013)

Fresh tubes are about as reliable as fresh strings: gotta get a few hours on them to weed out any of the defective ones before they're stage ready. Try checking that all of the powertubes are seated correctly. If they are, maybe it's just a freak occurrence? I've had my PB shut down tubes before, then after an hour of being unable to find the cause I get mad and just fire it back up, only to find there was never really a problem at all.

Flipping the standby resets any of the fail-safes in the powertube monitoring system. Like any other bit of tech out there, 90% of the time the solution is to turn it off and on again.


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## Stooly (May 26, 2013)

Thanks guys, played for 2 hours on it 2 times without incident. I'm just a bit apprehensive to take it on a mini tour coming up (crosses fingers). I'll just take my Mesa Dual Rec. as a backup...


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## vanhendrix (Aug 21, 2013)

Hey guys, just an update on what I'm running with my PB these days:

After buying my JVM I noticed something right away: the powerbal is quiet, like really quiet (and no, it wasn't just the phase inverter tube this time). If you run both amps (100 watts) balls-out, the JVM will be way hell and gone louder than the powerball, and that made no sense to me.

It finally got to the point where some friends and I were doing a shootout with the help of some contacts at local guitar stores. We were able to borrow: JVM Satriani, Bogner Ecstacy, Bogner Uberschall, Mesa dual rec multiwatt, Engl Invader 100, Peavy JSX, EVH 5150 30 50 watt, as well as my JVM 410h and Powerball. We got all these amps, brought them back to the jam space and had the loudest, heaviest (litteraly. Goddamn tube amps...) afternoon of all time. Anyways, we were running all these amps pretty much balls-deep. It was super loud, but we had our fancy hearing protection that all serious musicians should use. It soon became blatantly apparent that both the engl amps were much quieter than the rest. Quiet to the point that when my friend was running his 5153 50 watt, at maybe 3 oclock, you couldn't even hear the Invader completely dimed. So then I got mad.

I hooked up the powerball and hit the mid open/focus (or mid boost to those of you with PB2s). I'd always known there was a jump in volume there but I was shocked by how much it changed the amp. Suddenly it could hold its own again. To stop the haters: this wasn't an issue of "cutting through" it was pure and simple volume. His was louder until I hit that button.

TL;DR

The "mid boost" button isn't a mid boost at all. When it's in the "not boost" mode, it's actually a drastic cut to the overall output of the amp. Therefore, the "mid boosted" mode is the real sound of the amp, and the real output of a 100 watt head...and boy does it have a shitload of mids.


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## Pedrojoca (Aug 22, 2013)

vanhendrix said:


> TL;DR
> 
> The "mid boost" button isn't a mid boost at all. When it's in the "not boost" mode, it's actually a drastic cut to the overall output of the amp. Therefore, the "mid boosted" mode is the real sound of the amp, and the real output of a 100 watt head...and boy does it have a shitload of mids.



holy crap, what a thread comeback. I'll really have to check on this whenever I can, because at low volumes, the thing is an absolute HONK with that switch on.

also, glad to hear from you again vanhendrix, it's been a while ehe


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## Diversions (Mar 26, 2014)

After reading this thread I've purchased some new preamp tubes for my powerball 2. I'm wondering whether I can just go ahead and put them in? I'm not all that familiar as I've never had to replace tubes before but will I need to bias it? Sorry if I'm coming across as dumb. Thanks


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## Diversions (Mar 26, 2014)

Sorry about that last post, just realised it's only the power sections. Having said that is there anything I need to worry about other than just a straight replacement? Thanks


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## Pedrojoca (Mar 26, 2014)

Yup, just straight up replace them! Didn't remember this thread at all, I just realized I'm using this exact tube combo for almost 2 years now


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## m4dd0x (May 22, 2014)

hi guys, just want to thanks everyone for this POST. As a powerball mk II user, i pass from » I want to sell this shit » to I absolutely love this amp. Once again, BiG ThanKs!!!!!!!!


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## Pedrojoca (May 23, 2014)

m4dd0x said:


> hi guys, just want to thanks everyone for this POST. As a powerball mk II user, i pass from » I want to sell this shit » to I absolutely love this amp. Once again, BiG ThanKs!!!!!!!!



Glad to hear that, a few years have passed and I still love mine!


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## Mikeyprs (Jul 15, 2014)

now i've got some funds I plan on grabbing me some new tubes for the powerball (v1) - what do you guys think of these?? 

Matched quad 6P3S Silver Grid (6L6 5881) Russian tubes NEW! NOS! | eBay

Suitable??


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## istikis (Jul 19, 2014)

hi guys, after rereading several times (do not read English well lol) I would like to correct me on some doubts. 

1) -. Would it be correct change only V6 by JJ Electronics 12AT7 / ECC81 tubes and others non touch them? (I need to gain a more defined and organic sound). Do you only by changing this tube would solve this problem? 

2) -. For change v5, v7 and v8 is necessary to change the power tubes (v1, v2, v3 and v4) for optimal results? (Which combination you recommend me to play Heavy Metal and Thrash Metal?) 

Thanks in advance 

regards


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## vanhendrix (Jul 19, 2014)

istikis said:


> hi guys, after rereading several times (do not read English well lol) I would like to correct me on some doubts.
> 
> 1) -. Would it be correct change only V6 by JJ Electronics 12AT7 / ECC81 tubes and others non touch them? (I need to gain a more defined and organic sound). Do you only by changing this tube would solve this problem?
> 
> ...



1. Yes you can do that

2. It is not necessary, but I would recommend it.

-------

Update of doom:

I played my trusty ol' powerball at the last show with the band. Our drummer grew up inside of an explosion, so he plays pretty loud. To match him I run the thing with the channels on half to 3/4 and the master dimed. I must say after all these years of research, I'm most pleased with simply sticking those Mesa 6L6GS in there. Those made all of the difference to me, especially at that volume.

To back this up, I did an attenuator shootout at my local high-end guitar shop a while ago. I plugged in their powerball for reference and dimed the thing. Right away that goddamn swarm of bees that I knew all too well from the start of this thread showed up. The next time I showed up with my powerball, currently running all mesa tubes but with the stock type in each spot, and the amp sounded completely different.


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## elkulon (Jan 26, 2015)

Violent bump...

After seeking for info, for soooooooo much time, I decided to make a radical request...:
Can anybody share some photoshots of both sides of PCB????

The thing is, I live in Argentina, which is by far a third world country. It's virtually impossible to get an Engl PBall (and any Engl, Mesa, Soldano, or any of those brands, the only "gettable" are Fender, Marshall, and Orange, in part, and most of it are SS), and more sadly, for me is reaaaaaaally impossible to aford one of those, because of importation issues to the country (the most expensive buy allowed by goverment is $28, not enough...); so, my plan B is to build one of them. 
From there there are other technical issues; as you may know, Engl released wrong schemes by purpose, to avoid mass cloning. Only 2nd channel (Hi and Lo) is been traced by some guy, Mzaar (from Russia, I'd believe), but that's it. No 1st channel, no PI, no PA, no FX loop, no switching system, not even PSU. So, I'm [email protected] lost.

That's why I have the request; to make a decent aproach to the correct scheme and to be capable of cloning the full thing (or most of it), by tracing from real images of an actual amp.

Could it be possible???


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## chopeth85 (Jul 15, 2017)

Hi ! i know is an old post but i have an Engl Powerball II and i want to change preamp tubes ( i play mostly at home so power tubes is not the most important thing to me, the stock tubes are still in perfect condidition. I have read all the post and i´d like to testing some preamp tubes. My main target is to get a "less" aggresive crunch channel, a more mild and soft clean channel ( though i think is really beautiful ) and increase the saturated tone ( i love the high and aggresive sound but maybe a bit less dry ) so i was thinking in buying this tubes to test different sounds:

- tung sol 12ax7 gold pins double triodes balanced x2 
- tad 12ax7wa premium selected.
- jj ecc83s gold double triodes balanced.
- tad 12at7 premium selected balanced.
- GE Nos 5751 double triodes balanced.
- JanNos 12at7wc double diodes balanced.


I know there are many tubes here haha, but the ones i dont use i can use in other amps.

Would you give me some advise , talking about the position or the selection? thank you very much!


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## gregor (May 4, 2018)

Just found this -OLD- thread and having owned a Powerball for around 13 years (!) I am happy to see that there is some good news getting it to cut through. When I got it, it had a hard time matching my friends 5150II and I thought it was just the settings etc. I am going to try the pre-amp "CTFD" mod. I really should have done some internet trawling earlier. The change in power tubes is also interesting and some above has noticed some change with replacing them with JJ's. The JJ's look exactly like the originals, which makes me doubt any real change in tone by replacing them. Maybe using Sovteks would be useful as they have a similar frequency response to the JJ's. Comments…


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