# Buying a CNC router (recommendations?)



## Bearitone (May 6, 2019)

What do you CNC guys use as far as routers go?
Laguna? MultiCAM? Axiom?

What do you like or dislike about your machine? Have you found your machine to be reliable? Would you recommend it? How would you rate the rigidity? And lastly, how is the customer support when you have an issue? 

It’s going to be awhile until I even have the space to put a CNC router but, i figured I’d ask for some opinions on what’s out there while I’m currently window shopping.


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## LiveOVErdrive (May 6, 2019)

I have a shapeoko and I like it. Supposedly screw drive is more robust but I havent had much of an issue with my belts to be honest. The z axis slips when I do stupid things (like try to plunge straight down with a bit that doesn't cut in the center) but there does exist a screw drive mod kit for the z axis, so.... Yeah.

The XL shapeoko is plenty large to do a body or a neck, though not large enough for both at once.

I should clarify that I only use mine for fairly low precision stuff. Guitar bodies, necks, fret slots, etc. I'm not making any tiny, high tolerance, parts here.


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## MikeNeal (May 6, 2019)

i would go for something with screw drive. i have a shapeoko 3 and its a nightmare to get the repeatability they advertise.


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## dmlinger (May 6, 2019)

Openbuilds LEAD 1010 here. Screw drive on all axis. 

It's all I had the budget for, but it has been plenty robust enough for my needs so far. The Openbuilds community is great and the company itself is wonderful to deal with for support. They use, as the name would imply, open source parts, so no proprietary hardware or software needed.

Surely the machines you mentioned will be better, but at a higher price.


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## LiveOVErdrive (May 7, 2019)

For the record even though I'm happy with my shapeoko I'd go screw drive if I could do it all again.


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## ElysianGuitars (May 7, 2019)

I have an OpenBuilds Minimill that's handling the bulk of my work nowadays, cutting bobbin tops or soapbar tops mainly. I run it on an OpenBuilds Black Box, big fan of that all in one setup, and the OpenControl software is solid. Also have one of their Big Ox's for bigger things, but I recently dismantled it, don't need a machine that big and needed the space in my shop more. Not a fan of the belt drive on the Big Ox anyways.

And the CNC I run at the day job is an OMAG Blade5 5 axis+lathe, 78" of Z travel  Google one of those, will blow your mind.


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## Bobo (May 7, 2019)

If I can add a CNC question here, what about neck-thru builds? Are the "budget" CNC machines just too small for that? 

Or can you basically do two routing sessions, one with the neck end in, the other with the body end in? I'd guess the latter, but I'm ignorant to this stuff and wonder if there are limitations for these small machines in guitar/bass building.


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## ElysianGuitars (May 7, 2019)

Bobo said:


> If I can add a CNC question here, what about neck-thru builds? Are the "budget" CNC machines just too small for that?
> 
> Or can you basically do two routing sessions, one with the neck end in, the other with the body end in? I'd guess the latter, but I'm ignorant to this stuff and wonder if there are limitations for these small machines in guitar/bass building.


Would want at least a 2'x4' bed for that, and adequate Z for a tiltback headstock. That or just do the neck part, and finish the body end by hand. I think that option makes some sense, since the body portion is much simpler.

Smaller machines are limited unless they're overbuilt anyways, would need to run pretty slow with something belt driven, and then repeatability is definitely an issue because belts are sloppy.


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## Deegatron (May 7, 2019)

ElysianGuitars said:


> I have an OpenBuilds Minimill that's handling the bulk of my work nowadays, cutting bobbin tops or soapbar tops mainly. I run it on an OpenBuilds Black Box, big fan of that all in one setup, and the OpenControl software is solid. Also have one of their Big Ox's for bigger things, but I recently dismantled it, don't need a machine that big and needed the space in my shop more. Not a fan of the belt drive on the Big Ox anyways.
> 
> And the CNC I run at the day job is an OMAG Blade5 5 axis+lathe, 78" of Z travel  Google one of those, will blow your mind.


KABOOM!!! now that's a machine! WTF kind of industry requires this kind of CNC capacity?


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## ElysianGuitars (May 7, 2019)

Deegatron said:


> KABOOM!!! now that's a machine! WTF kind of industry requires this kind of CNC capacity?


Architectural stone, lots of limestone, some countertop type stuff as well, but it's not an ideal machine for that sort of thing. We've also done sculptures and other things with it. You can see one thing I did with it here:

https://www.thecontemporaryaustin.org/exhibitions/anya-gallaccio/


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## cip 123 (May 7, 2019)

To add to this discussion, I'm looking at a CNC 1000x1500mm with a screw driven X and belt driven Y. Would it be wiser to go with a 1000x1000 all screw driven? I just don't want to run out of space and have to tool up again.

Largest thing I'd build would be bass necks.


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## ElysianGuitars (May 7, 2019)

cip 123 said:


> To add to this discussion, I'm looking at a CNC 1000x1500mm with a screw driven X and belt driven Y. Would it be wiser to go with a 1000x1000 all screw driven? I just don't want to run out of space and have to tool up again.
> 
> Largest thing I'd build would be bass necks.


Screw drive all the way is highly recommended.


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## LiveOVErdrive (May 7, 2019)

cip 123 said:


> To add to this discussion, I'm looking at a CNC 1000x1500mm with a screw driven X and belt driven Y. Would it be wiser to go with a 1000x1000 all screw driven? I just don't want to run out of space and have to tool up again.
> 
> Largest thing I'd build would be bass necks.


How long is the longest bass neck you'll be making?

You can probably do it on the diagonal, but it'll be a little more fiddly to get each build setup.


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## cip 123 (May 8, 2019)

LiveOVErdrive said:


> How long is the longest bass neck you'll be making?
> 
> You can probably do it on the diagonal, but it'll be a little more fiddly to get each build setup.



I haven't programmed any yet, but judging by the length of the neck on my actual bass which is 35" scale that comes in about 950mm I just wanted to have enough room.

I did think about diagonal but I'm still quite a novice when it comes to CNC/CAD so it would be a something I'd have to work out.


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## Winspear (May 8, 2019)

Screw drive for sure. Indeed 1000 is about right, I went for 1000x600. More in the X (1000x1000 or indeed the 1500x1000 you mentioned) would be nice but not necessary - it would just be handy to have room on the machine for several jigs to stay put and not have to swap things around.
You can of course shift a workpiece up to do it in two parts on a smaller bed using locating pins, but I'd rather not, considering that workspace increase up a model range doesn't increase the price of a given machine _that_ much. Diagonal is possible too, just got to triple check those CAD mirroring operations.
I'm in the UK so went with a JBEC Pro from Stoney which is the go-to budget machine supplier over here. It's a solid machine though, was about $10k all in for absolutely everything I needed. No advice for you on brands but I will say from what I see in Facebook groups people messing around trying to fix/tweak their machines - I'm incredibly glad I paid twice as much for a plug and play solution with good customer support.


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## Omzig (May 8, 2019)

Great thread just what i was about to start asking about myself! 

So for the openbuilds type guys here ? 1.8 or 0.9 deg nema 23's does it really matter that much for what we do/will be doing on this kind of setup? 

I only ask as im looking at a kit for a Workbee (clone) Screw driven set up of 750x1000 and it can be brought with/without x4 nema23's (price dif is $40) but they only seems to offer 1.8deg motor's (im waitting for the seller to get back to me on if he can supply 0.9deg if needed)

Also i have loads of parts from old system upgrades from years gone by that are hangging around that i could slap together to use linuxCNC on (native/real PPort) do any of you use this setup or do you all use the Uno/micro control type system?

Cheers
Giz


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## Omzig (May 13, 2019)

Ordered the mechanical side of a Screw Driven 750mmx1000mm WorkBee Clone yesterday, and i think i'll be going for nema23's + indiviual TB6600's + and Uno,will start a build thread once it arrives.


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## dmlinger (May 13, 2019)

Did you get the mechanical kit from the Chinese stores on Aliexpress or eBay? 

You going GRBL or Mach3?


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## Omzig (May 14, 2019)

dmlinger said:


> Did you get the mechanical kit from the Chinese stores on Aliexpress or eBay?
> 
> You going GRBL or Mach3?



Im afriad im guility as charged  I was going to go for a UK company selling a shapeoko clone but they only offer belt systems and after reading you guys feedback and watching a lot of YT vids i started to see why going belt was a bad idea.

So ended up using a seller on aliexpress (high feedback for both kit and seller with good pics for users of the kits) about £370 UK ($465 ish) no doubt it will get hit with duty ect ect...
also i could not find a UK based company doing just the mecanical screw kit and those that were offering a full package want £1200+,i did look at US based seller but when shipping rates end up putting £200+ on top that's not an option.

I think i'll end up GRBL with uno and split drivers (still looking at maybe linuxCNC on an old PCparts build as i like recyclying stuff) any recommendtions?


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## dmlinger (May 14, 2019)

No guilt! It's probably the same stuff, mechanically, as Openbuilds.

My machine runs a GRBL xPRO V3 controller that has the motor drives integrates. Works well and I don't have any other experience with other controls.

The gcode my F360 initially put out didnt jive well (kept crashing into Z axis limit switch) with this controller, but a quick forum search lead me to a third party post processor that makes it work perfectly. For that reason, I would check out the online support of whatever electronics package you go with. 

Excited for you!


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## Omzig (May 17, 2019)

dmlinger said:


> No guilt! It's probably the same stuff, mechanically, as Openbuilds.
> 
> My machine runs a GRBL xPRO V3 controller that has the motor drives integrates. Works well and I don't have any other experience with other controls.
> 
> ...



Thanks man,your posts (as well as many others from various CNC guys here) + the recent vids on YT from chris at highline got me to take the CNC plunge,im look forward to kitting this stuff together and tinkering with the hardware/software setup,seller has dispatched my KIT so should be here in a week or so if it doesn't get held up at customs.....

I still can't really find any info on the 1.8 vs 0.9 degs for guitar building but as the price dif is pretty negligible i'll just grab the 0.9 deg/2.7A nema23's + a set of TB6560 driver boards for each axis + a try the Uno as a controller (have read that the uno can choke with 0.9deg motors as it need to send x2 as many step commands,anyone notice this ? ) the Uno can always get replaced if it's not upto the job.

Time to DL some trials for modeling software till i find the one that clicks.


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## Omzig (May 28, 2019)

OK guys Kit has now arrived from china and in just 8 days (took a few days to dispatch) Shipped Via UPS but it seems they screwed up the VAT/Duty and billed me for a declared total in £'s when i should have been in $'s so that's added about %33 to the value and pushed the package into added Duty territory..just fired them an email and i'll wait to see what they have to say.

Once i get this unpacked and checked i'll start a full build thread for it and grab some pics so we can see how the quality/fit is on these.


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## Deegatron (May 28, 2019)

I'm running an UNO clone with a CNC shield on my mini CNC. I'm not running any sort of high travel rates but I am running a 1/4" x 24 threaded rod as a lead screw on all 3 axis.
because of the threaded rod it runs a stupid # of steps per inch. I think it's over 1000. I've not done a lot with it but in my small experience it works just fine.
if your going to miss steps it's going to be during your rapid travel not during actual cutting when your moving at a slower pace. just setup the machine, rapid it around for a while and see if your missing steps. if ya are, turn down the travel speed on the uno till you stop missing steps.


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## Omzig (May 30, 2019)

Deegatron said:


> I'm running an UNO clone with a CNC shield on my mini CNC. I'm not running any sort of high travel rates but I am running a 1/4" x 24 threaded rod as a lead screw on all 3 axis.
> because of the threaded rod it runs a stupid # of steps per inch. I think it's over 1000. I've not done a lot with it but in my small experience it works just fine.
> if your going to miss steps it's going to be during your rapid travel not during actual cutting when your moving at a slower pace. just setup the machine, rapid it around for a while and see if your missing steps. if ya are, turn down the travel speed on the uno till you stop missing steps.




Cool thx for the feedback  1.8 deg nema's will do then it seems (reading else where suggests 0.9 vs 1.8 isn't that much of a big deal for guitar level cnc) 

Just cracked open the box and done a quick packet to list check and nothings missing,i'll do a inside pack check tomorrow (and maybe start a build log in a new thread)


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## electriceye (Jun 2, 2019)

Wait...you have to put ALL of that together???


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## dmlinger (Jun 2, 2019)

Will probably take you about 12 hours. Worth it in the end


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## Omzig (Jun 3, 2019)

electriceye said:


> Wait...you have to put ALL of that together???



Yep...so glad i managed to find this as a Kit because if i had to order all these bits one by one i very much doubt id have bothered 



dmlinger said:


> Will probably take you about 12 hours. Worth it in the end



Well i chaked up about 6 hours so far for the full mecanical part,(had to replace some wrongly installed type t-nuts.....read twice fit once lol ) gotta say it was quite fun,reminds me of mecano or tech lego i used to do as a kid.

I have to say i did habor a little doubt about what the overall quality and finish of these parts might be like as they are just over 1/3 of the cost UK sellers are asking for them.

But no the quality is fantasic,no sharp/rough edges and all the coating/finish is excellent,all the tapped parts are good with zero cross threading & all the bolts/nuts and parts are all so top quality

















Motors + limit switches are on the way and im about to order x3 TB6600 (have a spare Uno from an old admilight project) and a 24v/20.8a/500w cage psu + some drag chain+mounts...almost forgot i also need a router mount and some wire! i think that's about it? poke me if i forgot something 

going to have to extent the desktop about 30cm...should have bought 1000x750 frame doh.....


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## MrYakob (Jun 3, 2019)

Do you have a link to the kit you purchased?


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## Omzig (Jun 3, 2019)

MrYakob said:


> Do you have a link to the kit you purchased?



I was going to wait and throw this in my full cnc build thread once i got the rest of my parts but yep a link for it might be handy 

AliExpress* YuYong 3DMaker Store*


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## dmlinger (Jun 3, 2019)

Man, you're fast! My Openbuilds took an entire weekend, but that included lead screws, motors, wiring, and a little computer finagling. 

Looking awesome so far! The closeup photo of your parts (v wheels, spacers, anti backlash nut, etc) all look identical to the Openbuilds branded machine I have.


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## Omzig (Jun 4, 2019)

dmlinger said:


> Man, you're fast! My Openbuilds took an entire weekend, but that included lead screws, motors, wiring, and a little computer finagling.
> 
> Looking awesome so far! The closeup photo of your parts (v wheels, spacers, anti backlash nut, etc) all look identical to the Openbuilds branded machine I have.



Thanks man  I think what really helped was going over the build manual about 4 or 5 times before starting anything,while i had a quick 5 mins here and there durning coffee and "other" breaks id check out the PDF and visualise each section in my head,the manual they sent was just the workbee one with a diff front page,which is a very easy to follow/clear manual,i hate to think what an engirish version would have looked like! 

Ive Since been having a look around at UK sellers & for this kit type at ozn it's £1015 ! from ali it was £362 (+ i got stung for £41 tax/handling) so £403 all in that's £612 cheaper.......im all for buying from my home country but that's a hell of a lot to save (for me atleast).

Just finished up my final part's + milling bits shop,might take a week or so for all the stuff to arrive and get slapped on,i guess its time to go reg and DL fusion360 and have a go at converting my old 2d print template plans in to 3d of some kind and start wrapping my head around tool path set ups ! of joy lol


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## electriceye (Jun 4, 2019)

Omzig said:


> I was going to wait and throw this in my full cnc build thread once i got the rest of my parts but yep a link for it might be handy
> 
> AliExpress* YuYong 3DMaker Store*



What else, besides a router, do you need to have a complete setup? And will any computer work? I hate even considering Chinese products, but even the price for the largest model is insane.


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## Adieu (Jun 4, 2019)

So what's the minimum total starting rig cost for something proven?

Kit looks cool, but as I understand isn't everything you need? And hasn't been proven in action yet?


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## Omzig (Jun 4, 2019)

electriceye said:


> What else, besides a router, do you need to have a complete setup? And will any computer work? I hate even considering Chinese products, but even the price for the largest model is insane.



if you go for just a mechanical kit like i did You'll need to add x4 motor's + a driver for each motor axis + a controller + wiring + psu + limit switches + milling bits + router mount + drag chain(sure there are other things ive missed out) all those bits cost be about another £180 (milling bits cost £50 alone)

i decided to go for just the basic kit and then shopped around to grab the other parts i needed as i couldn't find a seller who was offering a GRBL type set up,they all seemed to have just mach3 kits on offer.



Adieu said:


> So what's the minimum total starting rig cost for something proven?
> 
> Kit looks cool, but as I understand isn't everything you need? And hasn't been proven in action yet?



Mechanically this kit is sound,Ive tested/driven each axis with a hand drill(s) and they all run smooth,any issues with the way things are driven from here on out will be me fucking up the wiring/drivers/controller and tools path settings 

I'll add more info as i progress + grab some video once it's all up and running,im still learning this stuff so im not the best person to answer all your questions.


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## Omzig (Jun 18, 2019)

So all my parts(aside from one Z limit switch) are here so i got all my motors/driver boards + Uno wired up today and set up GRBL,tested all the jog +/- for each axis and im like 






Got sent the v1.2 of the TB6600,i was expecting the incased black version (as pictured by the seller ) with all the in/outs on just one side,so wiring layout is diff on these but i think i'll keep them as it saves time on returing and waitting for replacements to arrive.

Time to go tweak some $$ values.....


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## dmlinger (Jun 19, 2019)

So the machine is moving in jog?? Sweeeet

I used this for calibrating my $ values for each axis. The guy in the video demonstrates how to do it and links you to a website with an Excel file for easy calculating the correct $.

Demo - 
Website with Excel Link - https://triquetra-cnc.com/


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## Omzig (Jun 20, 2019)

dmlinger said:


> So the machine is moving in jog?? Sweeeet
> 
> I used this for calibrating my $ values for each axis. The guy in the video demonstrates how to do it and links you to a website with an Excel file for easy calculating the correct $.



Super thx ,i used another method posted by a youtuber willysgarge where you take the full motor revoltion # step / thread pitch x stepboard divider wich for me gave a setting of 200 for $100-102,but over a 500mm jog i was getting a 0.5mm drift....using your link/setup i got a myself new value of 199.8002 and no drift.so that 0.1998 does add up 

I've been ploting a few calibration drawings today,which is cool to watch,but can i ask you guys is the drunk space invaders/chip tune sounds coming out of the system normal for running these patterns? ive only seen one video which is from https://diymachining.com/g-code-example/ that has the same noise's going on,just wanted to check that im not fucking my motors and drivers up somehow 

Going to grab some pine to run a few cut tests on over the weekend ! 

On the software side of things ive taken a bit of a liking to rhino (can't get on with fusion360's constent need to want to be online and make you share every little thing your doing,i can see the + side to that but im kind oldschool install>run>work,not install>signup>signin>download update>install updates>upload>crash....lol) 
and ive been testing out getting my old 2d template PS vector layouts into 3d,much easier than i though TBH and there are some very good YT video's out there that have helped,this is a test of an esp GL Kamaz altered to direct mount bridge HumB 






Cheers
Steve


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## Winspear (Jun 20, 2019)

Nice one man, hit me up if you need any help with Rhino


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## dmlinger (Jun 20, 2019)

Cheers! I'm glad it helped! 

I feel the same about Rhino and Fusion. Much prefer Rhino and only use Fusion because I only have a Mac and there are no other good CAM software to run on Mac that I've found.


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## Omzig (Jun 25, 2019)

Winspear said:


> Nice one man, hit me up if you need any help with Rhino



Thx Winspear much appreciated,YT seems to have most of the stuff i need covered but i im stumpped i'll give you a shout thx. 



dmlinger said:


> Cheers! I'm glad it helped!
> 
> I feel the same about Rhino and Fusion. Much prefer Rhino and only use Fusion because I only have a Mac and there are no other good CAM software to run on Mac that I've found.



thing that pisses me off the most about online/cloud software is the hidden BS in the T&C's bassically says they own anything you uploaded and they can do WTF they like with it without having to consult you or pay you a thing....

So got my bits today,took chris from highline guitars rec's and grabbed some 6mm through 0.6mm,If any one has rec's for bit's im missing please shout (im thinking i should get a larger than 2.0mm ball end to speed up PPasses ? )









time to start doing some 1/4 size test cuts to get some ball park feeds and speeds,if anyone has recs for S&F please shout out


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## dmlinger (Jun 26, 2019)

In ash which is softer than maple, I usually run 1000mm per min at 3mm deep passes. Run the Dewalt router all the way up. If it seems it can handle more, I will bump the feed up manually in my grbl to 120% or so. I’m a whimp with my machine and could probably run it harder. 

Maple necks are the same except shallower passed. Usually around 2mm on roughing passes. Finish passes don’t have much material left to remove. 

Finger boards are already cut pretty close to thickness so you can run it as hard as you need for a radius. Main thing is cutting time because of the fine step over. 

Frets are about 500mm per min at .3mm depth of cut per pass with a .6mm bit. 

These are just general feeds for my screw machine. You may find you can run your machine harder or easier. You’ll get a feel for it just by listening to the machine as it cuts.


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## MikeNeal (Jun 27, 2019)

for you guys who prefer Rhino - is it free?


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## Omzig (Jun 28, 2019)

dmlinger said:


> In ash which is softer than maple, I usually run 1000mm per min at 3mm deep passes. Run the Dewalt router all the way up. If it seems it can handle more, I will bump the feed up manually in my grbl to 120% or so. I’m a whimp with my machine and could probably run it harder.
> 
> Maple necks are the same except shallower passed. Usually around 2mm on roughing passes. Finish passes don’t have much material left to remove.
> 
> ...



Super many thanks for the feedback  fall in line with most over videos/sites ive grabbed info from,i just watched a 20min video on feeds and speeds/calibation/step over/plung rates ect ect ,them at the end the guy says but if your cutting wood then just play it by eye and ear and either speed up your router or slow down your feedspeeds....lol



MikeNeal said:


> for you guys who prefer Rhino - is it free?



90 day evaluation,after 90 days it stops you from saving/exporting & plugins stop working (i have mine sandboxed atm so wipe reinstall  ) ive seen a few older version for sale online as well as a few keys for v6 cheap on evilbay but feedback says they are well doggy and paypal/ebay dont protect degital sales so im not handing money to key scammers,im going have a look around for some old laptops/base units from 3d studios seen them pop up from time to time

So got my first CNC cut done today,just a test for a Pup template in 12mm ply (gcoded the wrong files so the ears are 2mm to long either side and cut depth was 16mm on 12mm ply...again check twice,cut once  ) but all good and clean cut/movement with no issues with the kit or drivers/psu.







Time to thickness some body blanks and try a full profile/edge cut next i think.

And my x3 replacement drivers arrived today so i rewire the TB6600 1.2's for the X/Y and leave the 1.1 on th Z and box the lot up and stick it under the desk out the way


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## KR250 (Jun 28, 2019)

Keep these posts coming.... I've got CNC envy  Cool seeing everyone's progress, I still have yet to come up with a full design in Fusion 360.


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## dmlinger (Jun 29, 2019)

So I build under the name PepperFox. Already have a 12th fret Fox design and have been playing with a Fox "F hole."

Yay or nay?






EDIT: Here it is a little bit bigger.


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## Bobo (Jun 29, 2019)

Foxy Lady! Maybe try positioning it further up?


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## dmlinger (Jun 29, 2019)

Closer towards the neck? I think you're right


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## Winspear (Jun 29, 2019)

I like it but I think it would look a lot better with a larger fox head only. The form to fit the traditional curve seems a bit forced, something like this would be more of a statement I think, even could be somewhat of a brand logo


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## dmlinger (Jun 29, 2019)

It was an image of a "jumping fox" that already had that form that I drew in Rhino.

Here is another, more traditional, F hole. Made one end a "P" for the "Pepper" My wife likes this one best. Our kids' names are Pepper and Fox for those wondering about the name.


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## Omzig (Jul 1, 2019)

I like both holes (pardon the pun) i say make them an option without an upcharge (or even a discount) my dog's names peppa btw that's because i love to grow and cook with super hot chilli's  Dig the naming scheme/org though,wasn't Carvin created the same way from bothers Carl/Gavin ?

So spent the morning rewiring/brading cables/heat shrinking and putting the new Black inclosed TB6600's in place....and yep you guessed it they dont f**king work,triple checked the wiring and nadda they all seem to be DOA,I can't be bothered trouble shooting them atm so ive just rewired the v1.0 TB6600 i orginaly got sent and bang it's all go again....

Still playing with templates as i need to cut/design a few more to fix some of my older builds that had template routing issues,nice to be able to tweak them without having to send them out to be cut and not have to pay £30 a pop to have someone else do the work and mail them me .

Seems Pings base plates rear's are just a few mm offset to the left than an OFR.


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## morgdav (Jul 9, 2019)

dmlinger said:


> It was an image of a "jumping fox" that already had that form that I drew in Rhino.
> 
> Here is another, more traditional, F hole. Made one end a "P" for the "Pepper" My wife likes this one best. Our kids' names are Pepper and Fox for those wondering about the name.



Just in case you are interested, I read this research a few years ago on how the f-hole evolved and why it is shaped the way it is: https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/pdf/10.1098/rspa.2014.0905. I always thought people just liked the shape.


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## dmlinger (Jul 9, 2019)

Thanks for sharing, love this type of research. My formal education is in audio engineering. We spent 50% of our studies on the physics of acoustics and the other 50% on electrical engineering and how it is adapted to audio circuits. We used to study a number of different research papers like this and try to make heads or tails of how the physics applies to a listener's enjoyment of music/sound. 

A paper I ended up doing was an A/B test on 25 listeners that would compare an MP3 player's (iPods were the rage then, now it's iPhones) AD converter vs the "lossless" .wav file. Conclusion - no one could tell or gave a shit that the MP3 player compressed the file and the dynamics suffered. 

There's no doubt the F hole can be altered in an instrument to manipulate the sound. We will see how this turns out. My instinct says the pickups and amp will be the majority of the tone since this will be a chambered body and not true hollow body. 

Truth be told, I just think it looks cool


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## Bobo (Jul 26, 2019)

Omzig said:


> I like both holes (pardon the pun)



Any more thoughts?

I mean about the CNC


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## morgdav (Jul 31, 2019)

Since the original poster mentioned Axiom, I just got this guy (AR6 Pro+) a couple weeks ago:




I have only cut a couple things with it but thus far it is amazing. The construction quality is great and it is very rigid.


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## dmlinger (Jul 31, 2019)

Wow awesome! Those machines are beastly


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## Omzig (Aug 1, 2019)

Bobo said:


> Any more thoughts?
> 
> I mean about the CNC



Lol i have prenty of thoughts about that but onto CNC stuff 

Sorry about not getting back to this thread,Ive had a few family health issues and to add to that a bit of a problem with the noisy bitch next door and her scum brother and father....long story.

CNC is all up and running,sofar ive mainly been doing test cutting and making template's to fix issue i had with older hand builds (stuff like pup/floyd routes,nothing major just little things that nag at my brain & i want to fix with more accurate guides) and making things for the CNC like dust shoes i also a poly medical/bottle stand for my sister (polycarb shavings are like satans bumfluff,i F'in hate that stuff it gets everywhere,even with a vac system running....) 

I did have a few issues with G-code sender stopping randomly mid cut,but after a bit of checking i found out it was an issue with the laptop i was using and it's USB controller sleeping (all power options were already disabled in power options and device manager so it must be a firmware/BIOS bug/issue) 
In the end i just decicde to throw together an mini PC to control it all and the issue hasn't come back since.

I have some 4 pin XLR male/female heads and plates on order so will wire the nema's upto them for easier relase if i need to move things,also need to get a new plam router ordered,these copies are OK for smaller jobs but i doubt it will last long on a full body neck cut.

I was just about to do a T-nut spacing pass on this wasteboard this afternoon but my bro started to mess with the main house fuse board for his shower so i'll run it off tomorrow now just incase he tripped me out mid cut.....






I also grabbed a put in a cyclone system for the dust shoe/rest of the shop,if you don't have one of these go buy/build one,even if you just use a shop vac as it will totally stop your filler blocking,just make sure you have a strong container as base,first to buckets i tried out got crushed when i blocked the vac tube 






I Just picked up a few slabs this weekend for some body tests (poplar for a trad tele build for my dad & black limba for a 27 fret super tele design im kicking about) as well as a few nice 10mm tick x 80mm wide solid wenge floor boards to use for fretboards,hope to start cutting that stuff next week but i wouldn't be suprised if RL throws something in the way,Just been one of those shitty months! 

Laters
Giz


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## dmlinger (Aug 1, 2019)

Glad you're up and running! 

Really curious about the mini PC you put together to send G Code. I've been taking my Macbook outside to the garage to run my machine and end up having to cover it with a towel to keep the dust off. Also can't use the computer while it's running. All that to say I want an inexpensive Windows laptop, tablet or something else to send G Code.

Recommendations? Need something with a USB port since my CNC controller doesn't have bluetooth


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## Deegatron (Aug 1, 2019)

dmlinger said:


> Glad you're up and running!
> 
> Really curious about the mini PC you put together to send G Code. I've been taking my Macbook outside to the garage to run my machine and end up having to cover it with a towel to keep the dust off. Also can't use the computer while it's running. All that to say I want an inexpensive Windows laptop, tablet or something else to send G Code.
> 
> Recommendations? Need something with a USB port since my CNC controller doesn't have bluetooth



Dangit, I was just gonna suggest Bluetooth. I added a Bluetooth module to my UNO-CNC shield and now I run everything with my Samsung S8 via Bluetooth. it's dirt cheap (had the phone anyways and the Bluetooth module was like 15 bucks or something from Amazon.) and was reasonably easy to setup. has been 100% dead solid for me. no problems thus far.... that being said I don't use it all that much.... maybe once or twice a month...


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## dmlinger (Aug 1, 2019)

Trying to stay away from Bluetooth because I'd still shy away from using my computer while it is sending code through the Bluetooth so it doesn't bog down. Hoping to get a dedicated tablet or inexpensive laptop with a USB port.

I guess I could buy a Bluetooth module for my controller and use a different device that can send G Code? I imagine it would be cheaper to just get a $100 tablet with USB?


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## Bobo (Aug 2, 2019)

Great info Giz (and of course others who've helped in the CNC discussion)! Looking forward to seeing how things work out and what you build.

I'm still doing some research and debating how much is enough to get by for a CNC machine...well maybe it should be called guesswork instead of debating. It's not a must, but damn it seems like a nice tool to have at your disposal, especially for trickier builds. Or even non-guitar related stuff that I may want to get into.


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## Bobo (Aug 2, 2019)

I guess I could pose one question, something I haven't seen talked about. What would be the process for making bridges, saddles, headless nuts, tuners, etc? I don't know much really about working with metal (but I can play some), are these parts usually done with CNC mills made specifically for that type of stuff?


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## Omzig (Aug 31, 2019)

So been kinda offline due to some RL stuff sucking my time, so sorry about not getting back to this thread and updating it with my cutting progress

So here's the first full guitar thing ive cut using the machine i built within this thread 







Ive been making lots of other little things most of them to help improve the work flow of the cnc process,things such as hold down/friction clamps and about 4 diffrent types and revisions of a dust boot (made a 5 today that's going to be gantry mounted and doesn't move with the Z thus allowing the router to inside the boot and not cause brush compression which became a issue with doing a full body cut out) waste boards & fences ect ect all of which has help a load for learning layout/design/milling,i think if id just have brought all of these things premade id have even less of a clue  

There are 2 minor'ish errors with the above body,first off low E string thur bridge hole (i ran the wrong hole pass/post but after flipping so it started to re cut another rear ferrule pass,caught it before it got out to 10mm! & 2nd the center line runs out by about 5mm from heel to neck pocket,not sure wtf was going on there but i think the guide fences i made must have slipped/twisted a little as i (over) clamped the blank inplace

Next up to get milled will be a neck/fb for it,i have an old slab of santos rosewood for the neck and some wenge for the fb.


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