# The 0th octave club! (For those of us who tune below C1)



## Unjustly-Labeled (Jan 13, 2014)

Hi there! I just had this idea for a kinda meeting central for people who are tuning/want to tune below what most people consider reasonable!

First off, I'd encourage anyone who tunes below C1 (6 semitones down from standard 8 string F#) to post a youtube clip/soundcloud link/bandcamp page/whatever you've got, post some specs/random useful info and experience from experimentation.

So, without further ado, let's get down to the clips!

https://soundcloud.com/unjustly-labeled/injustice-anthem

So here I'm using my Agile 828 with stock pickups. I'm using a fuzz pedal with an eq pedal boosting the 1000hz by 6db and the 2000hz range by 10db. I'm using a 10-60 GHS sevenstring set with a 90 GHS Boomer for the bottom. The guitar is tuned to drop G#0.

So anyways, feel free to join in and just have some fun!


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## DeKay (Jan 13, 2014)

Oh I already love this thread! Song from my album where I tuned to A#0.

Caynug - Overcome:


PRS Baritone in A#0 (Chorus and bridge gets most A#0 love) with 15-90 strings (90 string is a ghs dynamite alloy boomer) Distortion is made on my POD HD with some tweaking afterwards in mix and mastering focusing on the high mids to give it the growl I like.


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## Unjustly-Labeled (Jan 13, 2014)

DeKay said:


> Oh I already love this thread! Song from my album where I tuned to A#0.
> 
> Caynug - Overcome:
> 
> ...




Dude, this is ....ing sweet, and I love that album! It's pretty good to see two completely different styles of production as examples for those interested in tuning to the 0th octave!


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## Hollowway (Jan 13, 2014)

Oooh, I love this club! I'm a groupie for now, but when my XEN and OAFs finish I'll be officially in. And I have no idea how you're playing G#0 at 28" with a .090". How many lbs is that?


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## Unjustly-Labeled (Jan 13, 2014)

Hollowway said:


> Oooh, I love this club! I'm a groupie for now, but when my XEN and OAFs finish I'll be officially in. And I have no idea how you're playing G#0 at 28" with a .090". How many lbs is that?



I get a wimpy 9.5lbs of tension there. If you really control your attack, you can comfortably play it, but no getting carried away, or you get a sharp note! 

And I'm glad to see our first groupie, and potential future member!


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## luca9583 (Jan 13, 2014)

Tuning in this range is a lot of fun and has been discussed quite a few times here. I think it's definitely a dark art.

From my experience if you want to tune that low (below C# which would typically be a .090 on 30" scale guitars), be able to fret notes on that string, and have acceptable intontation and note definition, then you need something like a 34" scale length instrument or a fan that goes that long.

If, on the other hand, you don't mind the string ringing out sharp with the pitch gradually getting flatter as it rings, and you don't mind not being able to fret notes or get much note definition, then you can get away with it on scale lengths shorter than 30", as those examples above show. That first track above is a great example of how that pitch thing might be a desired effect..and you can really hear the pitch eventually "settle" there after the note is initially struck sharp.

Another thing i've discovered is that at 34" scale, a bright sounding .120 string with steel underlays works really well tuned to B0 in terms of fretted notes (just like on a standard bass), but you now need to "eq back" the harmonic content in the 1-2k area, (much more so than you would do with a typical low F#1 or E1 tuning on an ERG going through a tube screamer/eq pedal etc). So now that you've got fretted notes that sound good, ideally you would need to apply a separate pre eq to the lowest string, via some kind of polyphonic/multi channel pickup.

It would be really interesting to hear a relatively light string like an .080 at these tunings on a really long scale length around 37" or more.


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## Unjustly-Labeled (Jan 13, 2014)

luca9583 said:


> Tuning in this range is a lot of fun and has been discussed quite a few times here. I think it's definitely a dark art.
> 
> From my experience if you want to tune that low (below C# which would typically be a .090 on 30" scale guitars), be able to fret notes on that string, and have acceptable intontation and note definition, then you need something like a 34" scale length instrument or a fan that goes that long.
> 
> ...



You bring up a lot of good points here. And the 34" scale thing is something I've experimented with too. I've used a 6 string bass with a 20, 30, 45, 60, 80, 100 string set. You're spot on with needing to EQ stuff back into the tone, but I also needed to cut a lot of obnoxious overtones when I tried it. And for some reason, I needed to cut a lot of the 400hz range, or it'd sound bloated and weird. I'll try to dig out my old bass and make a demo sometime.

Something I'd give as advice when tuning to the 0th octave is to try using a bass fuzz pedal or something else which doesn't mess too much with your low end before it hits your amp/ampsim. If you feel the tone you get from that is lacking attack, try using an EQ pedal instead of an overdrive/tubescreamer, as that'll allow you more control over what kind of attack you get out of your tone.


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## Winspear (Jan 13, 2014)

Hollowway said:


> Oooh, I love this club! I'm a groupie for now, but when my XEN and OAFs finish I'll be officially in.




34" XEN for B on order at the moment! (106 gauge, ~24lbs)


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## luca9583 (Jan 13, 2014)

Unjustly-Labeled said:


> Something I'd give as advice when tuning to the 0th octave is to try using a bass fuzz pedal or something else which doesn't mess too much with your low end before it hits your amp/ampsim. If you feel the tone you get from that is lacking attack, try using an EQ pedal instead of an overdrive/tubescreamer, as that'll allow you more control over what kind of attack you get out of your tone.



Cool. Yeah something like the Empress Para EQ is a great pedal for this..you can really fine tune the attack with it.

Yeah bass fuzz is a great idea too.

Controlling the low end for 0th octave stuff is also really important for both pre and post preamp eq. I find there's a temptation to eq in some extreme lows around 80hz in the power amp's eq section to really bring out the thunderous frequency response from those low notes through a live cab, but once you've got a bass guitar in the mix, filtering below around 90hz once the tone has been recorded is essential if you want to hear the bass guitar. 

Filtering low end in front of the preamp is also interesting, because you end up filtering out the fundamentals of these notes to get a tight sound, and it's the higher harmonics that give the note definition


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## luca9583 (Jan 13, 2014)

EtherealEntity said:


> 34" XEN for B on order at the moment! (106 gauge, ~24lbs)



Nice. All 34" scale (with capo options!!!) or fanned?


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## Hollowway (Jan 13, 2014)

Yeah, my OAF (designed by Eric) goes to 33". Though, I plan on going to G#0 with it.


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## will_shred (Jan 13, 2014)

You guys are all crazy 



Just kidding this is cool


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## shawnperolis (Jan 13, 2014)

Okay, so I have a clip of my Agile Intrepid 930 tuned to B0. I recorded this stuff using really crap equipment and I was just learning about extended range guitars. The playing is sloppy and the lead work is terrible. Don't listen to them.

B0:
https://soundcloud.com/shawnperolis/the-mighty-....er-of-dragons

C#1:
https://soundcloud.com/shawnperolis/wow-delicious-convex-system

edit: sevenstring.org censored my URL for the B0 clip, not sure how I can fix that for you guys. Censorship is the absolute worst.


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## Winspear (Jan 13, 2014)

luca9583 said:


> Nice. All 34" scale (with capo options!!!) or fanned?



34-31  
The tuning is actually a crazy reduced range tuning I've gotten really into. Minor thirds with an ordinary portion on the bottom end for some extra range and brutals. 
B E B DFG#BDF 
Being the exact range of a 7 string bass. 26 frets though. 
So incredibly excited 

The 31 scale length also mean I can tune it to standard step down (B-D) if I fancy, without having breakage problems with the top string. Then I can capo it at 2 for a more reasonably scaled, standard tuned 24 fret 9 which is pretty cool!


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## BrailleDecibel (Jan 13, 2014)

While this kind of thing isn't really anything I could see myself incorporating into my own writing/playing style (I never thought I'd feel like a wimp for using drop-E as my lowest tuning!  ), it's cool as hell to see you guys pushing crazy boundaries with this stuff, striving to make something unique and different. I commend you!


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## ben_hurt (Jan 13, 2014)

SOOO close... damn. C#1 for me  

used on an RG2228 here: TIDES Preview - YouTube


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## 7stg (Jan 13, 2014)

I will be official in April with an agile 1030!! If you count my basses which are tuned to B0 then I'm in now.

I want two Dingwall styled guitarbasses with multiscale one to 34 and another to 37 both 9 strings with guitar string spacing. I could do 8 strings too.


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## Yo_Wattup (Jan 13, 2014)

I dont think this is in the 0th octave, lowest note is D1 I think. Oh well, I tried. I was going for a kind of sabbath minus an octave sound. Cool thread. 

https://soundcloud.com/dudleygrabsch/3000-suns


EDIT: How on earth does SSO, of all sites, not have soundcloud embedding?


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## DeKay (Jan 13, 2014)

Yo_Wattup said:


> I dont think this is in the 0th octave, lowest note is D1 I think. Oh well, I tried. I was going for a kind of sabbath minus an octave sound. Cool thread.
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/dudleygrabsch/3000-suns
> 
> ...



If people keep posting their songs that are in the 8 string octave then this thread is useless, *please don't post stuff that does not belong here*. 0 starts from B0, C is still C1 and D is even higher.

Also people that post stuff that IS actually in the 0th octave: Don't forget a good description... we all don't want this to turn into a (check out my cool drop D song) thread. Thank you.


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## luca9583 (Jan 13, 2014)

DeKay said:


> If people keep posting their songs that are in the 8 string octave then this thread is useless, *please don't post stuff that does not belong here*. 0 starts from B0, C is still C1 and D is even higher.
> 
> Also people that post stuff that IS actually in the 0th octave: Don't forget a good description... we all don't want this to turn into a (check out my cool drop D song) thread. Thank you.



0 starts at C0. B0 is a semitone below C1, so here we're talking
about C0 - B0.

On another note, anything below F#0 starts to
become quite hard to perceive in terms of pitch. A bass synth, for example, will allow you to experience even something like an E0, but i think ERGs will reach their limit at around F#0.


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## Murdstone (Jan 13, 2014)

I had my 10 tuned in fifths with the bottom string at G#0 below B0, it was rumble central. It definitely is pushing the limits of sound differentiation when you get down into those depths.


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## Bretton (Jan 14, 2014)

luca9583 said:


> 0 starts at C0. B0 is a semitone below C1, so here we're talking
> about C0 - B0.
> 
> On another note, anything below F#0 starts to
> become quite hard to perceive in terms of pitch. A bass synth, for example, will allow you to experience even something like an E0, but i think ERGs will reach their limit at around F#0.



I think he meant "starts at B0" as B0 is the highest note possible, and from that starting point, you can go downwards.

so thread for anyone tuning an octave below a standard 7 string, or lower.


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## Unjustly-Labeled (Jan 14, 2014)

Alright, so I threw together a quick comparison clip here:
https://soundcloud.com/unjustly-labeled/string-bass-vs-8-string-guitar
Sorry about the terrible playing here! 

First we have a 6 string bass in 34" scale tuned to B0 with that 20, 30, 45, 60, 80, 100 stringset. It's got some kinda no name active pickups in there. Then we have my Agile 828 (28.625") with a 10-90 stringset, also tuned to B0, which has the cepheus passive pickups. The bass gets a lot more gnarl overall, but has less note clarity weirdly enough. Comparing the two, it really comes down to taste which is better, as neither seems to be better in all areas...

What do you guys think about it?


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## KwameDude (Jan 14, 2014)

I've really been below drop F.

but hey all this stuff here posted sounds cool as shit. i might try a .90 on my rg8 and see what happens ha


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## luca9583 (Jan 16, 2014)

Unjustly-Labeled said:


> Alright, so I threw together a quick comparison clip here:
> https://soundcloud.com/unjustly-labeled/string-bass-vs-8-string-guitar
> Sorry about the terrible playing here!
> 
> ...



Cool clip. Where exactly does it cut from bass to guitar and back to bass again? I'm assuming you're using the treble pickup of the bass. 

One of them sounds like it has more treble attack and the other sounds like it's more muted. Cool comparison.

Also, i think i can hear a bass track mixed in the centre that sounds like it's hitting E0 at one point! Is that a super thick string or an octave pedal/synth?

I recently modded a 5 string bass with a BKP Blackhawk placed right next to the bridge, and with some pre eq and relatively light guitar strings it really gives a guitar like tone.


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## Unjustly-Labeled (Jan 16, 2014)

luca9583 said:


> Cool clip. Where exactly does it cut from bass to guitar and back to bass again? I'm assuming you're using the treble pickup of the bass.
> 
> One of them sounds like it has more treble attack and the other sounds like it's more muted. Cool comparison.
> 
> ...



It switches between the two instruments every time the "riff" repeats. So it's 6er bass from 0:00-0:07 agile from 0:07-0:014, and so on, so it's constantly switching between the two. The one with the most treble is the bass, using the bridge pickup.

And yes! I am riding an E0 on the second riff, and playing that string freted during the chordy bits in the first riff. It's not really a thick string though, just a 130. Gives me about 18lbs of tension, so it's floppytown all around! 

Also, do you mind posting a clip of the bass with a bkp? The more content we get in this thread, the better!


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## luca9583 (Jan 16, 2014)

Ha ha i knew that was E0 i was hearing!

Interesting that the bass has more attack..did you apply the same signal chain to both instruments?

I'll try and make a clip soon


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## Unjustly-Labeled (Jan 16, 2014)

luca9583 said:


> Ha ha i knew that was E0 i was hearing!
> 
> Interesting that the bass has more attack..did you apply the same signal chain to both instruments?
> 
> I'll try and make a clip soon



Hehe, good ears mate! Not a lot of fundamental to go by for hearing that E0.

And I do use the same signal chain, it'd be a pretty unfair comparison otherwise right? Or I guess I could've tailored the tones to each specific instrument to show them in their strongest element...


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## jonajon91 (Jan 23, 2014)

EtherealEntity said:


> 34" XEN for B on order at the moment! (106 gauge, ~24lbs)



Will this be featuring on your album/ep?


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## DeKay (Jan 23, 2014)

This happens when I slap my bass as if it was an extended range guitar. 



Bass used: Yamaha RBX375
Strings: Normal set with a 130 as fat string.
Tuning: AEADG
Sound: Pod HD


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## Winspear (Jan 23, 2014)

jonajon91 said:


> Will this be featuring on your album/ep?



The next one! Not this years


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## decreebass (Jan 23, 2014)

DeKay said:


> This happens when I slap my bass as if it was an extended range guitar.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Fantastic video and super sick groove! I like this thread


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## Curt (Jan 23, 2014)

This stuff is crazy. The lowest tuning I have used is 7 string drop Bb with a low F on an 8. And that is pushing it for me.


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## DeKay (Jan 24, 2014)

Curt said:


> This stuff is crazy. The lowest tuning I have used is 7 string drop Bb with a low F on an 8. And that is pushing it for me.



It's like an sickness, for me it started with 060 strings on an 24.75 scale les paul in F# (limp bizkit gave me the motivation way back then) and now I am here dropping it between A#0 and E1.


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## jonajon91 (Jan 24, 2014)

The last few days have been a complete turning point for me. I have been listening to Unjustly labeled for a few weeks now, but now I have started looking about more stuff (caynug ^)and even started writing some music in the vane of UL.


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## jonajon91 (Jan 26, 2014)

Would anyone be interested in recording a guitar part for song that i'm working on at some point in the next few weeks? The lowest note is the A bellow the low B on a 5 string bass. The song is pretty doomy and to be honest a complete rip-off of Unjustly Labled's new EP.


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## wigger (Jan 26, 2014)

DeKay said:


> This happens when I slap my bass as if it was an extended range guitar.
> 
> [...]
> 
> ...



Wow, now that sounds great! Amazing tone. I really dig your stuff.


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## gnarlwinslow (Jan 26, 2014)

Wait a ho chi minute - Baby Sunglasses - YouTube

This song is tuned to B on the 2 lowest strings an octave apart. There's a few parts you can tell but it gets pretty muddy. Very fun though.


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## Unjustly-Labeled (Jan 27, 2014)

Okay, who's the funny guy who tagged my thread "dekay is an ass"? I can't even remove it! I didn't even know that anyone other than the OP could tag threads! 



jonajon91 said:


> Would anyone be interested in recording a guitar part for song that i'm working on at some point in the next few weeks? The lowest note is the A bellow the low B on a 5 string bass. The song is pretty doomy and to be honest a complete rip-off of Unjustly Labled's new EP.



Awww, that's adorable! I'd offer to record something for you myself, but I'm busy with finishing my own EP at the moment...


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## jonajon91 (Jan 27, 2014)

Unjustly-Labeled said:


> Awww, that's adorable!



Not low enough?
I was going to record it all on my bass, but I figured I may as well ask hear. You never know.


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## Unjustly-Labeled (Jan 27, 2014)

jonajon91 said:


> Not low enough?
> I was going to record it all on my bass, but I figured I may as well ask hear. You never know.



Nono, I mean adorable from the "Aww, I inspired someone! " view! 

Edit:
For content, I'm gonna post something which crushes ALL THE 10 STRINGS:
http://authorandpunisher.bandcamp.com/track/blue-flame

Yes, it is indeed a distorted synth. Heaviest non guitar based music I've ever heard. Also fits the 0th octave requirement!

Edit2:
Since soundcloud started working again, I can finally upload my blatant ripoff of Author & Punisher:
https://soundcloud.com/unjustly-labeled/authoritarian-drones
Just showing off the fact that guitars are not the only way to get that nasty distorted sound!


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## mnemonic (Jan 29, 2014)

Unjustly-Labeled said:


> Nono, I mean adorable from the "Aww, I inspired someone! " view!
> 
> Edit:
> For content, I'm gonna post something which crushes ALL THE 10 STRINGS:
> ...



Holy shit dude, your mixes are getting heavy. Guitars are a bit buzzier than I would like, though I assume thats intentional as there appears to be a synth in the mix too. 

Also I don't know who Author & Punisher are but I googled it and found this
Author & Punisher- 9/5/10 Studio Practice Shoot on Vimeo

I have no idea what is happening in that video but it sounds awesome.


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## NaYoN (Jan 29, 2014)

How have I not posted in this thread before? Ab0 represent

1:33

There are a lot of random 0th octave notes all over the Carthage album.

All over the place:

My upcoming solo album will have 4 songs with the 9 string that feature a lot of Ab0

Rerecorded version of one of the Ab0 parts from that song
https://soundcloud.com/nyn9/temperament-tone-test


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## ixlramp (Jan 30, 2014)

DeKay said:


> This happens when I slap my bass as if it was an extended range guitar.


That's awesome i love it.
I feel that within the ERG movement there is a new instrument trying to breakthrough but which is held back by cautious guitar companies who insist on seeing it as a guitar, keeping the standard EADGBE up top and keeping the scale short, obviously the biggest market is for people who want a standard guitar plus lower strings.
I would like to see 34" scale 'full range guitars', which makes finding strings easier just use ERB strings, essentially ERBs with narrow spacing.
Such an instrument if tuned a fourth below guitar tuning would still contain a guitar fretboard from the 5th fret up, it could have 29 frets. The 5th fret of a bass has a 25.5 inch scale.


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## jonajon91 (Jan 30, 2014)

Interesting idea. You could just stick a capo on. I'd like to see a diagram/mockup of that.


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## Unjustly-Labeled (Jan 30, 2014)

So I just released that EP for free at bandcamp. 
https://unjustlylabeled.bandcamp.com/album/injustice



mnemonic said:


> Holy shit dude, your mixes are getting heavy. Guitars are a bit buzzier than I would like, though I assume thats intentional as there appears to be a synth in the mix too.
> 
> Also I don't know who Author & Punisher are but I googled it and found this
> Author & Punisher- 9/5/10 Studio Practice Shoot on Vimeo
> ...



Dude, there are no guitars in that clip (Authoritarian Drones), only synths! 

As to what he's doing in that vid, that guy designs his own MIDI controllers, so what you're seeing is him playing everything using his feet, hands and mouth. Looks really... Funny live?


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## mnemonic (Jan 30, 2014)

well... that would explain it!


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## ixlramp (Jan 30, 2014)

This guy tunes below C1 but is not in the 0th octave, Kalium Guitar Works Quake bass G#00 13hz C#0 F#0 B0 through distortion Knuckle Guitar Works sub-contra bass played through Malekko Diabolik fuzz @ NAMM 2014 - YouTube
Thanks to MF Kitten for the video.

This is the closest existing instrument to what i have in mind, a Warr Guitars 34" touchguitar. They also have a superior strap button system with a button on the back of the lower horn, the instrument therefore balances at any angle from almost horizontal to almost vertical.


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## DeKay (Feb 8, 2014)

Just released an full album in Drop A0 on Bandcamp. No guitar, just distorted slap basses!

Chemical | Caynug

!


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## jonajon91 (Feb 8, 2014)

Gah, I'm still trying to absorb your last release!

---edit---

Dude this is phenomenal.

---double edit---

that drum solo on Promethium ... wow


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## Unjustly-Labeled (Feb 18, 2014)

Thought I'd post what I'm working on in here.

https://soundcloud.com/unjustly-labeled/teaser-track

Don't be afraid to post content in here people! The more the merrier!


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## BEADGBE7 (Feb 18, 2014)

dude.... all of "Chemical" is pretty good. glad i stumbled across this thread. great job


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## DeKay (Feb 19, 2014)

BEADGBE7 said:


> dude.... all of "Chemical" is pretty good. glad i stumbled across this thread. great job



Thank you, the release was in general discussion and in the recording section aswell but did not get much comments so it kinda vanished. Will surely make more like that in the future!


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## Unjustly-Labeled (Feb 26, 2014)

Gonna kick some life into this thread again with the release of my latest album!



Get it for free here:
http://unjustlylabeled.bandcamp.com/album/grotesque

It still counts as ERG if you use a bass like a guitar right? I may have made this thread, but I don't know what rules would apply for this!


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## jonajon91 (Feb 26, 2014)

God damn you guys are productive. I'll have to give this a spin when I get a chance. I love Your work.


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## Unjustly-Labeled (Feb 26, 2014)

jonajon91 said:


> God damn you guys are productive. I'll have to give this a spin when I get a chance. I love Your work.



Well, I wouldn't say I'm productive, I just have waaaay too much free time! 

Hope you'll like it though!


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## mnemonic (Feb 26, 2014)

Damn dude, thats heavy as hell. I like it.


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## Unjustly-Labeled (Feb 26, 2014)

mnemonic said:


> Damn dude, thats heavy as hell. I like it.



Just wait for the last track on the album where I hit the 00th octave! It sounds kinda like Thor is smashing the bass with Mjölner!


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## jonajon91 (Feb 26, 2014)

^ And which chapter is that? Also I really like the album art, I love the theme that seems to be on the cover of all the albums.


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## Unjustly-Labeled (Feb 26, 2014)

jonajon91 said:


> ^ And which chapter is that? Also I really like the album art, I love the theme that seems to be on the cover of all the albums.



It's on Chapter 8, and I'm glad to hear some love for my album art! I try with my limited competence to produce something matching the feel or theme of the album, and this is the one I'm happiest with so far!


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## Orgalmer (Feb 26, 2014)

I just scrape in at B0, hopefully will have a couple of new tunes to share that are disgusting as all hell.

Also gotta check out the other songs posted on here and show them to my mates - they'd love this kind of stuff.


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## Necris (Feb 28, 2014)

One of my projects I used a 5 string Bass tuned A0-E1-A1-D2-G2 and an 8 String bass tuned with the lowest string being D0, unfortunately the string was too loose to go much lower. 
Not sure if that counts though, since I use basses rather than guitars.
Thinking about buying a 5 or 6 string jazz bass and pushing into 00 octave territory.


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## Unjustly-Labeled (Mar 1, 2014)

Necris said:


> One of my projects I used a 5 string Bass tuned A0-E1-A1-D2-G2 and an 8 String bass tuned with the lowest string being D0, unfortunately the string was too loose to go much lower.
> Not sure if that counts though, since I use basses rather than guitars.
> Thinking about buying a 5 or 6 string jazz bass and pushing into 00 octave territory.



I'd say that if you use the bass as a guitar it should count. I mean, we've already got two projects in this thread doing exactly that.

Also, I'm a bit curious, is there any specific reason you're looking at a jazz bass for the 00th octave?


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## mnemonic (Mar 1, 2014)

Have any of you guys ever converted a bass to a guitar to get a longer scale length to better handle lower notes? I hadn't considered it until I realized just how cheap it could be done. 

This harley benton bass is only £55 (plus whatever shipping would be) and the nut is the same width as a 6-string guitar. 30" scale too. 

I could get a strat-style fixed bridge on ebay for £10, set of 6 inline tuners for probably not much more, fill the tuner holes and make it 6-inline (probably paint the headstock so it doesn't look shitty) and route for a 6-string bridge pickup.

Then, bam. 6-string 30" scale guitar for probably under £100. 

I may do this come summer when its warm outside.


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## Unjustly-Labeled (Mar 1, 2014)

mnemonic said:


> Have any of you guys ever converted a bass to a guitar to get a longer scale length to better handle lower notes? I hadn't considered it until I realized just how cheap it could be done.
> 
> This harley benton bass is only £55 (plus whatever shipping would be) and the nut is the same width as a 6-string guitar. 30" scale too.
> 
> ...



Whenever stuff like this comes up, I always think of this glorious bastard:
http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/3529378-post6.html


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## mnemonic (Mar 1, 2014)

Unjustly-Labeled said:


> Whenever stuff like this comes up, I always think of this glorious bastard:
> http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/3529378-post6.html



Apart from the tuner layout and fret ends, that looks really awesome.


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## Abaddon9112 (Mar 1, 2014)

mnemonic said:


> Have any of you guys ever converted a bass to a guitar to get a longer scale length to better handle lower notes? I hadn't considered it until I realized just how cheap it could be done.
> 
> This harley benton bass is only £55 (plus whatever shipping would be) and the nut is the same width as a 6-string guitar. 30" scale too.
> 
> ...



I'm thinking about doing something similar with a 5 string bass. Except I'll probably just replace the pickups with 8 string humbuckers and throw some smaller gauge strings on it. Then tune it to whatever octave 0 tuning I decide on. So it'll be a sort of guitar-bass hybrid. A bastar(d)!

I've been playing around with different bass tunings trying to find one that will sound guitar-like while still crushingly low. I think A0-D-G-C-F is what I'll end up going with. Most of the action will probably be on the D string but I can utilize the A for the real sludgy stuff


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## Abaddon9112 (Mar 1, 2014)

Has anyone checked out the new Ibanez Crossover 6 string? Basically like a modern take on the Bass VI. Looks like it might be a good option for octave 0 stuff. I'd like to get my hands on one before they discontinue it (which they will, knowing Ibanez)







Not too expensive either

Ibanez SRC6 Crossover 6-String Electric Bass Walnut Flat Finish | Musician&#39;s Friend


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## Ajb667 (Mar 1, 2014)

I wanna join this club but I'm intimated by everything ._.


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## Unjustly-Labeled (Mar 2, 2014)

Abaddon9112 said:


> Has anyone checked out the new Ibanez Crossover 6 string?



Holy shit, a 30" 6er which doesn't have tune-o-matic!?  I didn't know that was possible!



Ajb667 said:


> I wanna join this club but I'm intimated by everything ._.



As long as you get the right gear for it, there's really nothing to be afraid of! Mostly it's just about getting acceptable string tension and intonation, which means that if you find an instrument capable of intonating properly with a >90 string, you're golden already. Sure, some small things like drilling tuners/unwinding strings might be necessary, or maybe getting a different nut/filing the sides down a bit.

Ok, reading that back, I realize it might be a good idea to compile some kinda guide for this shit. Like, what bridges tend to take >90 gauge strings, what tuners can/can't handle drilling, some in depth testing of the viability of at least a B0 on a 25.5" guitar. Whatever relevant stuff we can figure out in here. Anyone willing to contribute to this somehow?


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## Techdeath (Mar 3, 2014)

Jesus that's low. Diggin OPs clip with the choral work


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## ThePhilosopher (Mar 13, 2014)

I believe this should grant me entry-it's just a test, but I'm working on a few tracks with it: https://soundcloud.com/dbartko/low-c
Ibanez RG8 w/EMG808x tuned: CGDGDGBE strung with Kalium .010-.102 set and my Cort Curbow 5 string tuned: GDGBE with Kalium strings going up to a .182.


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## Unjustly-Labeled (Mar 14, 2014)

ThePhilosopher said:


> I believe this should grant me entry-it's just a test, but I'm working on a few tracks with it: https://soundcloud.com/dbartko/low-c
> Ibanez RG8 w/EMG808x tuned: CGDGDGBE strung with Kalium .010-.102 set and my Cort Curbow 5 string tuned: GDGBE with Kalium strings going up to a .182.



Duude, you're almost there! Just drop the C down one note!  

The mix doesn't really lend itself well to the low notes though. If you're gonna let the bass have that middy gnarl, the guitars and drums are gonna need to fill out the mids and bass around it, or it'll sound weird. When you tune that low, you really should let guitars give off more bass frequencies either way for intelligbility.


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## tastehbacon (Mar 14, 2014)

Jesus... the OP's link just crushed my soul.


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## ThePhilosopher (Mar 14, 2014)

Unjustly-Labeled said:


> Duude, you're almost there! Just drop the C down one note!
> 
> The mix doesn't really lend itself well to the low notes though. If you're gonna let the bass have that middy gnarl, the guitars and drums are gonna need to fill out the mids and bass around it, or it'll sound weird. When you tune that low, you really should let guitars give off more bass frequencies either way for intelligbility.



I definitely need to do some tweaking to my patches for this to sound right (and re-eq my mix).


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## Preacher (Mar 14, 2014)

quick question, on a 28.625" scale, whats the best string guage for C1 on the low f#?

Stringulator reckons that a .120 could do it, but D'Addario don't make those for guitars 

I think it have a slightly flubby 76 on it at the moment which is ok but I get some fret buzz/string rattle with it


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## Unjustly-Labeled (Mar 14, 2014)

Preacher said:


> quick question, on a 28.625" scale, whats the best string guage for C1 on the low f#?
> 
> Stringulator reckons that a .120 could do it, but D'Addario don't make those for guitars
> 
> I think it have a slightly flubby 76 on it at the moment which is ok but I get some fret buzz/string rattle with it



If you're alright with ballends sticking out at the back of your gt, it might be an idea to try out 5 wound bass strings (D'addario pro steels are nice, GHS too), and 3 plain guitar strings. It'd be a pretty good experiment for the benefit of all of us too! Especially if you posted some kinda demo of that! 

Otherwise, you'd have to turn to La Bellas site or Circle K, or other more "custom" string companies.


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## Unjustly-Labeled (Mar 28, 2014)

While it may not be 100% relevant to guitars, this is an apt demonstration of 0th octave stuff, and even far below (00th octave C)!

Synthesized | Unjustly Labeled


(I'll take any excuse to bring more life and content into this thread )


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## House74 (Mar 28, 2014)

im not sure what I just listened to, but I feel compelled suddenly to do terrible things to cats with forks?


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## Unjustly-Labeled (Mar 28, 2014)

House74 said:


> im not sure what I just listened to, but I feel compelled suddenly to do terrible things to cats with forks?



NO, NOT THE KITTENS! That's not my message at all!


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## Unjustly-Labeled (Apr 3, 2014)

Welp, I finally delivered on my earlier promise! I've proved that 0th octave stuff works on 25.5 scale, single coil, shitty partocasters even!

https://soundcloud.com/unjustly-labeled/strat-crushes-all

Let this stand as my testament to how wrong all those long scale guitar obsessed people are!


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## somn (Apr 3, 2014)

Sounds like nothing but mush


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## Unjustly-Labeled (Apr 3, 2014)

somn said:


> Sounds like nothing but mush


Sound like nothing but an asshole.




What? I thought we were exchanging random opinions?


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## somn (Apr 3, 2014)

Well it does sound like mush. If you think I'm an ass hole because you were bothered by that then that's fine by me but that doesn't change the fact that it sounds like distorted mush


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## JamesM (Apr 3, 2014)

^Alright Aslan, go place your opinions elsewhere. 


Great tracks OP.


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## somn (Apr 3, 2014)

Aslan?? Why are you calling me a lion?


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## 8StringX (Apr 3, 2014)

somn said:


> Aslan?? Why are you calling me a lion?



I assume it's because you say your from Narnia

To Unjustly-Labeled, that sounds surprisingly good. It sounds much closer to the tone from your baritone than I would have expected. It's intensifying my GAS for the Agile 1027 currently for sale. Keep it up!


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## 8StringX (Apr 3, 2014)

Unjustly-Labeled said:


> Welp, I finally delivered on my earlier promise! I've proved that 0th octave stuff works on 25.5 scale, single coil, shitty partocasters even!
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/unjustly-labeled/strat-crushes-all
> 
> Let this stand as my testament to how wrong all those long scale guitar obsessed people are!



What string gauge and tuning are you using?

Also, I don't think those that vouch for longer scales for lower tunings are saying that it can't be done, but rather that the longer scale is preferable for string tension and tone.


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## ThePhilosopher (Apr 3, 2014)

He clearly states it's a .100.


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## 8StringX (Apr 3, 2014)

ThePhilosopher said:


> He clearly states it's a .100.



Where, exactly?


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## Unjustly-Labeled (Apr 3, 2014)

somn said:


> Well it does sound like mush. If you think I'm an ass hole because you were bothered by that then that's fine by me but that doesn't change the fact that it sounds like distorted mush


Oh hey, I got neg rep for calling you on your attitude problem, and how low effort your posts are. 

It's fine if you don't like it, and you think it lacks definition, but maybe you need to learn how certain wordings can change the meaning of a message. Example:
"Oh, this sounds very lacking in definition. Not my kind of thing."
or 
"Sounds like nothing but mush."

Now, which of these would you say is the less assholish sentence?



8StringX said:


> Where, exactly?


In the soundcloud link?


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## abandonist (Apr 4, 2014)

To be fair, you're really sensitive.


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## Konfyouzd (Apr 4, 2014)

Does going to E0 on my bass count?


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## somn (Apr 5, 2014)

I can try and say it in any possible way but it looks like you'll still be offended in someway because it's still a different opinion than yours and that's what I gather by the attitude you've taken. I gave you a negative rep for the childish name calling not for your different opinion. 
It's a shame the topic is cool but it's not when it becomes defined by childishness and sensitivities. I mean come on would you still react negatively if I had said wow it sounds so awesome such lows and the girth it's incredible! It's totally possible on a 25.5 scale. I don't think so. But I'm done arguing I can see this is not argument or talk of tone but how you feel aggressed or offended by my words explaining my thoughts on your tone and such.


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## DeKay (May 13, 2014)

Can't we all just love each other  Also we should not argue about scale length because those who are playing in the 0th octave should really know how important scale is for intonation/tone/strings/tension.. let's leave those argue stuffs to the djent kids who can't decide if they want to go 26.5 or 27 scale with an 74 as low F#, k?

Some sick stuff is coming soon from me in album form also.


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## shikamaru (May 13, 2014)

This is crazy stuff, but I admit I have a hard time distinguishing an actual pitch for those things in the 00th octave (is that a G or an A, something like that). I think the problem is how it sits in the mix. I think those notes sound much better isolated, pretty much like the first piano note in the root of all evil. Very weird experience to listen to that stuff though. I&#8217;ve already heard sounds that low, but actual music being composed in that range of notes is something I wouldn&#8217;t have expected. I didn&#8217;t really enjoy it, but it was interesting.


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## Abaddon9112 (May 20, 2014)

So, having been inspired by this thread: http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/general-music-discussion/270911-downbeat-deathcore-k-sludgewave-thread.html
I decided to make the absolute most barbaric and retarded song I could using an octave 0 tuning. I put a .105" gauge bass string on my Ibanez RG7321 and tuned the guitar to B0-B-E-A-D-F#-B. The low B is surprisingly clear for a 25.5" scale, though not very clear compared to what longer scales would allow. But it shows that this is in fact kind of doable on a shorter scale guitar. The guitar tones are all from a Zoom G2nu pedal with some EQ and reverb applied in reaper. 
[SC]https://soundcloud.com/jabaddon9112/drop-b0-slam-core-song[/SC]


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## DreamError (May 20, 2014)

You people are all monsters 

...I love it. Push the envelope and all that.

You there, bass player! We need you to go out and buy a bunch of 18s for this new tuning we'll be using 

Bassist: lousy mother f-... 





Abaddon9112 said:


> Has anyone checked out the new Ibanez Crossover 6 string? Basically like a modern take on the Bass VI. Looks like it might be a good option for octave 0 stuff. I'd like to get my hands on one before they discontinue it (which they will, knowing Ibanez)
> 
> Not too expensive either



They made a 7 string one before that, too, but it was a pricey Prestige model called the SR7VIISC. The SRC6 intrigues, me, though. Looks like a neat little baritone and you won't have to worry about drilling tuners.


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## Abaddon9112 (May 20, 2014)

So I'm planning out a new project where I'm going to be playing in 0 octave tunings, anywhere from B0 to Ab0. I want to get a new instrument specifically for this purpose, and have been weighing the advantages and disadvantages of an 8 string versus a bass used like a guitar. A while back I was thinking of getting a 5 string bass and switching the pickups out for guitar pickups and using slightly lighter strings. But I'm afraid I'll miss the high strings an 8 affords, and also that it won't quite achieve what I want tonally. Some sort of 30+ inch fanned-fret guitar would be ideal, but unfortunately I'm limited to relatively inexpensive commercial instruments. 


Bass definitely seems like it would intonate better and offer more clarity if played on the bridge pup. But an 8 has more range, and would probably sound more guitar-like. Would anyone who's had experience with both these approaches be willing to give your thoughts on the differences? Which do you really think works better?


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## DreamError (May 20, 2014)

That Ibanez SRC6 uses EMG 35HZs (a 4 string bass pickup), 3.5" wide, so it looks like you could probably fenagle a 7-string in there; the Dimarzio X2N 7 is 3.53" screw to screw and a bridge pup. I didn't see the rest of the dimensions of that EMG. I only say the X2N 7 because it uses bar magnets.

Possibly a happy medium between a low-tuned, longer-scale 8-string guitar and a 5-string 35-35" scale bass?

But this is just speculation/brainstorming, no experience here what-so-ever


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## Unjustly-Labeled (May 20, 2014)

I'd say from my experiences so far, it's just not worth it trying to get anything workable out of shorter than 30" scales. I mean, you can fvck around with it in recordings, but for something you're gonna pick up and play regularly, I'd say go for either a 30" 8, or, if you're ready to sacrifice those highest 10 notes, go for a Peavey 6er Grindbass or something and put on a 30-100 stringset.

Edit:
100th post in the 0th octave thread!  I'd say let's celebrate with content, but I've got fvckall atm...


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## Zei (May 21, 2014)

Unjustly-Labeled said:


> Gonna kick some life into this thread again with the release of my latest album!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Oh my god I never knew I wanted to play the 0th octave until now. 

I actually had to go and grab my studio headphones cause my laptop's speakers can't give the low notes any clarity


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## shawnperolis (May 22, 2014)

I was working on a track to show off my B0 tuned Agile 9 string. I'm thinking about dropping it down to A for shits though. I don't normally play low tuned metal, but it is fun trying to push the envelope for guitar tuning a little bit. I'll try to get something solid to share soon.


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## akinari (May 22, 2014)

Some great tunes floating around in this thread. I've been using a 24.75 Explorer copy for D1/C#1 just to see if I could gel with something tuned lower than F#, and while it sounded a lot better than I expected it to, I'm definitely ready to go lower. I'm looking into either a custom, or possibly converting a bass for A0.


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## Unjustly-Labeled (May 23, 2014)

Alright. I've been fvcking around with the 6 string bass again, and using it like a supersized 6er baritone. Here's a mix test with it:
https://soundcloud.com/unjustly-labeled/short-and-dumb-mix-test

Tuning is A#0 standard. 34" scale, stringset is 20, 30, 45, 60, 80, 100. Definitely seems like the most workable solution so far for me with the octave 0 stuff!


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## Konfyouzd (May 23, 2014)

I tune to E0 on my bass... Does that count?


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## jonajon91 (May 23, 2014)

I have written a piece that has my 35" bass tuned down to A#/Gb as the main instrument. I did start recording it, but never got round to any stage of mixing or anything like that. Super doomy stuff.


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## Unjustly-Labeled (May 23, 2014)

Konfyouzd said:


> Does going to E0 on my bass count?





Konfyouzd said:


> I tune to E0 on my bass... Does that count?


Dude, is the heat frying your brain? You posted the exact same sentence, with a slight variation in this thread a month ago! 

I can sympathize though. 30C heat here in Sweden. That shite'll will fvck with yer head real quick if you're not careful!


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## jmeezle (May 23, 2014)

I covered a section of Meshuggah - Spasm, enjoy!

[SC]https://soundcloud.com/jm2484/meshuggah-spasm-cover-drum-solo-section[/SC]


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## muffinbutton (May 23, 2014)

EtherealEntity said:


> 34" XEN for B on order at the moment! (106 gauge, ~24lbs)



Remind me again where you work?


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## DreamError (May 25, 2014)

Possibly relevant to interests: Rondo just added a couple short scale (30") 6 string basses to the site.

Rondo Music 6 String Bass Guitars | Page 1 of 1


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## mp3357 (May 26, 2014)

Unjustly-Labeled said:


> Dude, is the heat frying your brain? You posted the exact same sentence, with a slight variation in this thread a month ago!
> 
> I can sympathize though. 30C heat here in Sweden. That shite'll will fvck with yer head real quick if you're not careful!



I really like the clip you posted in original thread. You said you're using a fuzz? Would you care to share which kind?


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## Unjustly-Labeled (May 26, 2014)

mp3357 said:


> I really like the clip you posted in original thread. You said you're using a fuzz? Would you care to share which kind?


It's modeled after Roger Mayer Axis Fuzz. I don't know if the actual pedal is still in production, but if you're an amplitube 3 user, it's the one called XS Fuzz. If you google the pedal name you'll probably find similar real pedals you could use!


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## DeKay (Jun 19, 2014)

I dropped a teaser, using -1 octave pitch shift over the C#1 and D1 tuned guitars which gives the effect of pretty much playing in C#0 and upwards  also the bass goes down to E0 aswell at parts.

[SC]http://soundcloud.com/caynug/caynug-long-album-teaser[/SC]

https://soundcloud.com/caynug/caynug-long-album-teaser


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## wigger (Jun 19, 2014)

DeKay said:


> I dropped a teaser, using -1 octave pitch shift over the C#1 and D1 tuned guitars which gives the effect of pretty much playing in C#0 and upwards  also the bass goes down to E0 aswell at parts.
> 
> [SC]http://soundcloud.com/caynug/caynug-long-album-teaser[/SC]
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/caynug/caynug-long-album-teaser



That sounds amazing!


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## AwakenNoMore (Jun 21, 2014)

Contributin' (wait for it)


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## ixlramp (Jun 21, 2014)

I feel there's a logical and inevitable conclusion to all this: 34" scale guitars. But there is commercial pressure on guitar companies to make ERGs 'familiar' to a guitar player: limited scale, containing EADGBE on top (which also limits the scale). Arguments about scale playability seem to assume you must play at the end of the neck, the solution is to just play a riff wherever it is comfortable to play, then use the lower frets for the very low notes.
ERG needs to be seen as a new instrument and standard tuning needs to be discarded in favour of longer scale. High notes can be obtained with 5 extra frets.
It's almost as if ERGs secretly want to be ERBs but won't admit it because ERB is still seen as unfashionable and 'wanky'.


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## Unjustly-Labeled (Jun 25, 2014)

ixlramp said:


> because ERB is still seen as unfashionable and 'wanky'.



And ERGs aren't? 

Naw, but I agree with what you say mostly. It feels like we should just start looking at playing basses with guitar setups instead. Only problems I've had with that solution is that the bridge is uncomfortable as fvck to play palm mutes on, and I guess there's also the string spacing question, mics and some other stuff to consider with basses. 

Actually, when I think about it, we really do need instruments specifically built for this stuff. Anything other than a proper >34" ERG would just be a hackjob in the end, with no real progress.


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## House74 (Jun 25, 2014)

now, what kind of pickups are you guys using to capture these sounds? seems to me that with a low 100 string and 34" scale, aren't you just playing a bass through guitar equipment at that point? And no I am not bashing, I think it sounds cool as sh!t, so I am trying to understand how it all works


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## Winspear (Jun 25, 2014)

House74 said:


> now, what kind of pickups are you guys using to capture these sounds? seems to me that with a low 100 string and 34" scale, aren't you just playing a bass through guitar equipment at that point? And no I am not bashing, I think it sounds cool as sh!t, so I am trying to understand how it all works



Some of the first ERGs used EMG bass pickups because it was all that fit. The sound isn't all that different  The tension of the strings makes a big difference and is in fact one of the biggest factors in how I decide what differentiates a bass and a guitar now  String tension and string spacing, I think. We may be stepping into similar gauges, but the notes we are tuning them to result in around half the tension that is typically run on a bass. A much more guitar like tone without that huge tight fundamental. Of course, the thicker strings _are_ stepping more toward bass tone territory still, but with the rest of the equipment like you said...


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## Unjustly-Labeled (Jun 26, 2014)

House74 said:


> now, what kind of pickups are you guys using to capture these sounds? seems to me that with a low 100 string and 34" scale, aren't you just playing a bass through guitar equipment at that point? And no I am not bashing, I think it sounds cool as sh!t, so I am trying to understand how it all works



Well, you get all kinds of people in here. 8, 9 and 10 strings, baritone 6ers, some custom builds, bass guitars played through guitar stuff. It's pretty interesting to see how varied the instrument choices in this thread are! Pickups are probably just as varied as the gear. It'll be hard to pin down any outstandingly popular setup. DeKay and I use the same bass (Yamaha RBX 375), with the same stock pickups for all the bass focused stuff we've posted in this thread, my earlier stuff was from stock agile 8 cepheus passives. If you wanna find out more about what other people in the thread use, you can shoot them a pm or something I guess.



EtherealEntity said:


> Some of the first ERGs used EMG bass pickups because it was all that fit. The sound isn't all that different  The tension of the strings makes a big difference and is in fact one of the biggest factors in how I decide what differentiates a bass and a guitar now  String tension and string spacing, I think. We may be stepping into similar gauges, but the notes we are tuning them to result in around half the tension that is typically run on a bass. A much more guitar like tone without that huge tight fundamental. Of course, the thicker strings _are_ stepping more toward bass tone territory still, but with the rest of the equipment like you said...



Speaking of the bass' fundamental. This made me think of a discussion I saw on one of the boards here. Someone said it's stupid of guitarists to play low tuned 8 strings through guitar rigs because they aren't built to produce that fundamental. Can someone who's experienced with real amps and cabs tell me anything on how valid this is? Is there some difference I haven't experienced because I only deal with ampsims? Or is it just old people stuck in their old ways, who aren't understanding that the separation of roles between the bassists and guitarists remain, even when they both tune to the bass' octaves?


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## Abaddon9112 (Jun 26, 2014)

Unjustly-Labeled said:


> Speaking of the bass' fundamental. This made me think of a discussion I saw on one of the boards here. Someone said it's stupid of guitarists to play low tuned 8 strings through guitar rigs because they aren't built to produce that fundamental. Can someone who's experienced with real amps and cabs tell me anything on how valid this is? Is there some difference I haven't experienced because I only deal with ampsims? Or is it just old people stuck in their old ways, who aren't understanding that the separation of roles between the bassists and guitarists remain, even when they both tune to the bass' octaves?



I'm not an expert on this stuff by ANY standard, but I'm pretty sure that is "just old people stuck in their old ways". Technically you can damage guitar speakers with extremely low frequencies, because low frequencies cause the speaker to move out and in more drastically (this is called excursion). Bass speakers are normally constructed more robustly and are engineered to carry the very lows, where guitar speakers are all about mids and are basically an old and not very durable type of speaker. But there are a bunch of factors in the way ERGs are constructed and set up that reduce the amount of fundamental in the tone. 
The fact that the string tension relative to the string gauge on an ERG is lower compared to a bass is going to produce a less strong fundamental. I think the generally shorter scale of an ERG vs. a bass also may reduce the fundamental. And a lot of ERG pickups are also mid-focused and not too bass-heavy.

On top of that, most ERG players are _intentionally_ cutting out the extreme lows with a Tube Screamer and/or pre and post amp EQ. Its not really necessary to actually have the fundamental on a super low note come through. Because of the way our ears/brains perceive the harmonics, the note still sounds like its in the 0th or 1st octave. And it will sound more guitar-like with a less prominent fundamental. Most of the time, you don't want too much fundamental in an ERG's tone or it will sound like a bass. 

I think the only real difference with ampsims is you don't have to worry about physically damaging the speaker, so you could generate a tone with a stronger fundamental if you wanted to without hurting anything.


----------



## Winspear (Jun 26, 2014)

^ Yep. They aren't build to produce that fundamental (talking around 40hz for drop E 8 string). But you really aren't looking for that fundamental in the tone anyway. Go and listen to a 55hz pure tone sine wave. That's 7 string drop A. It will sound a lot lower than you think a drop A guitar does - that's if you can even hear it on your system. And if you can, compare it's volume to that of 1 and 2 octaves higher at 110 and 220. It's really not an important part of the sound. We hear mainly the overtones. Likewise as mentioned, a guitar isn't going to put out nearly enough of it to damage the speaker. Hell I'd probably go as far as to say a bass wont either. Just don't go running loud sine waves through there. Chances are you care little about anything below 80hz (that's around standard E guitar) in a guitar tone and are already cutting out plenty of the fundamental even in standard tuning.


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## Unjustly-Labeled (Jul 6, 2014)

So basically, it's an argument someone built upon shaky knowledge in order to further their own viewpoint, rather than based in practical use then? That's good to know. 

But that opens up a new avenue of thought. If even more bands start running stuff like the axe-fx directly through the PA, then won't the entire band be able to produce sub 80hz frequencies as long as they've got good enough speakers in that PA? Most people only look at the axe-fx as a way to reproduce standard guitar tones, but in reality, simulated stuff might be able to do many things that a normal rig can't. Is this something worth exploring?


----------



## Speedos (Jul 6, 2014)

Unjustly-Labeled said:


> Hi there! I just had this idea for a kinda meeting central for people who are tuning/want to tune below what most people consider reasonable!
> 
> First off, I'd encourage anyone who tunes below C1 (6 semitones down from standard 8 string F#) to post a youtube clip/soundcloud link/bandcamp page/whatever you've got, post some specs/random useful info and experience from experimentation.
> 
> ...



that sounds so f* brutal! i don't know why but kind of reminds me of my dying bride ( at least the clean low vocals)

never knew about this thread , seems i found a treasure! time to pin it up on my desktop and check it everyday from now on


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## Explorer (Jul 6, 2014)

Someone mentioned that since most are using a Tubescreamer or other distortion which knocks out the fundamental, it doesn't matter if that actually fundamental is part of the sound.

I'll say, it doesn't matter *IF* you only play distorted/overdriven and don't care about your sound reinforcement being able to produce those frequencies while playing anything approaching clean. 

Clean tapping will lose those bottom notes entirely. It's like when you play a mix through car speakers to get an idea of how your mix sounds, and the bottom just disappears. 

I came originally from acoustic music, so I was already using full range systems for acoustic reinforcement. The idea that you'd use a system which completely removes an upright bass doesn't seem so great to me. 

I'm not saying anyone has to want to play clean, or that they'd even want a tone knob on their guitar when they never do (removing said knob being a frequent mod here for those who never leave high gain). 

I am saying, though, that there are those of us here who use that range and who need more than what a standard guitar amp can do.


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## InfinityCollision (Jul 7, 2014)

Unjustly-Labeled said:


> If even more bands start running stuff like the axe-fx directly through the PA, then won't the entire band be able to produce sub 80hz frequencies as long as they've got good enough speakers in that PA?



Possibly, but that's not necessarily a good thing - multiple sources of low frequency content will result in large buildups and cancellations in that frequency range.


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## Schectersilence (Aug 13, 2014)

Here's my incredibly late entry to the club. Tuned B0 so it _just _gets in. I'm mocking up 9 string tuning (as I'm ordering one hopefully), so I'm messing around with it a little. Anyway, here's the track

https://soundcloud.com/schectersilence/end-file1

I'm so sorry about the solo, it really is a poor effort, but I was making roast chicken, and it needed dealing with. I'm that hardcore.


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## Unjustly-Labeled (Aug 14, 2014)

Schectersilence said:


> Here's my incredibly late entry to the club. Tuned B0 so it _just _gets in. I'm mocking up 9 string tuning (as I'm ordering one hopefully), so I'm messing around with it a little. Anyway, here's the track
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/schectersilence/end-file1
> 
> I'm so sorry about the solo, it really is a poor effort, but I was making roast chicken, and it needed dealing with. I'm that hardcore.



You've got pretty good actual note clarity going there man! The only real problem I hear is a bit of poor blending between the drums and guitars. The guitars sound a bit like Vildhjartas last release in terms of density (which I personally didn't like, but different strokes'n all). If you tweak the elements of the mix a bit, I think this has a shot at sounding really good!


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## Schectersilence (Aug 14, 2014)

Unjustly-Labeled said:


> You've got pretty good actual note clarity going there man! The only real problem I hear is a bit of poor blending between the drums and guitars. The guitars sound a bit like Vildhjartas last release in terms of density (which I personally didn't like, but different strokes'n all). If you tweak the elements of the mix a bit, I think this has a shot at sounding really good!



Cheers pal! This was literally done in about 40 minutes so it's pretty poor. The mix is indeed very bad, plus no bass. I'm after a thicker bassier sound with the guitars, so I'll be messing around. Maybe going a little lower. I've never gone below A0 though, so that'll be interesting! I'll put more up soon with (hopefully) better mixing.

This thread is so damn inspiring. It's making me unsure about what to get though, as I'm getting a custom 9. Thinking fanned fret 27-30, but if I want to go below A0, I feel like 30 is a little naive. Advice anyone?


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## angelbear (Aug 15, 2014)

the brown note has been found


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## Roy (Aug 18, 2014)

Mmmkay. I'm obviously not the only low-tuning idiot around here, so some specs.

Agile Interceptor Pro 928 
10 - 98 strings from what used to be Circle K. Can't remember their new name.
Sorry.....

Playing it on an Engl Invader 100 with 2*12" Engl guitar cab + 2*10" bass cab. Each on their own output (The Invader has some ... euhm... options).

Tuning : 
A E A D G C F A D. 
Upper six strings sound very guitarlike thanks to the Engl cab, while the lower 4 (not a typo) sound very basslike thanks to the Hartke. It all just depends on where your fingers are...

Wanted to post a soundclip, but that's something for later. Just some crappy recordings available at the moment.

EDIT : 
Made a Soundcloud profile  

Warning : it's doom-industrial .... I just play it, didn't compose it. 

https://soundcloud.com/roy-geelen/lost-lament-drowning-demo

Had nothing to do with the mixing / mastering. Personally would like to have heard some more high.
(The "Low A" is first played at 2:12..... grab hold of your subwoofer)


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## Slam Master (Aug 18, 2014)

Hey, i'd like to contribute my musics!

I tuned to G0 C G C F Bb D G on a 8 string with a 36 inch scale! Death Metal Content. I tracked the parts quite a few time to make sure the fundamental came through in the mix. Enjoy!

Broken Spine Bag | Compendium


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## Konfyouzd (Aug 18, 2014)

Wow that sounds cool.


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## Slam Master (Aug 18, 2014)

Thanks  My signal flow was 

Bass>Boss DS1>Boss NS2>Interface>Split (1 and 2)

1> center panned huge 500 hz cut
2> Panned out> Pod farm Emulated amp with low drive


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## jonajon91 (Aug 19, 2014)

Dude, you got any pictures of your guitar?! 36" scale sounds fantastic!


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## Slam Master (Aug 19, 2014)

Its really a bass hybrid thing. > http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/extended-range-guitars/277599-ngd-8-string-bass-d.html#post4133271

I think it may be a tad larger than 36 inches.. idk i dont have any accurate way of measuring atm.


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## Unjustly-Labeled (Aug 21, 2014)

Wow, this spike of thread activity is awesome! Slam Master, that bass is a fvckin' beast! 

Thought I'd post the b-sides track I just uploaded here as well. I posted it in my thread in general music, but shit gets buried there in mere seconds, and it's still relevant to both threads I think. It's a sludgey mass of noise in F0, so hold onto those speakers!

https://soundcloud.com/unjustly-labeled/citadel-of-decadence

It's nice to hear more projects utilizing 0th octave tunings. Even if most of us are still in the experimental stage and haven't quite got production down perfectly, the differences in writing required to keep this stuff interesting means we can see entirely new styles emerge in the future. 0th octave tunings seem to favour noisy, sludgey, non-overproduced stuff by nature, which is refreshing considering the djent movement we seem to be growing out of. It feels like we've escaped a dead end and are taking back low tunings as something belonging primarily to bands trying to go for a darker atmosphere rather than belonging to followers of a trend. Dunno. Might be completely off in my optimism here...


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## Slam Master (Aug 21, 2014)

Optimism is always best!


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## Ari_VD (Aug 21, 2014)

Holy Moly ! what a thread ! seems that i must upgrade my RAM 
i never think that there are "identify-able" notes below A0 until you guys said the E0, G#0, etc and those notes are absolutely thunderous with distortion.. even my guitar is just tuned down to A1..
thanks for 4 the TS and also u guys for the knowledges and attached songs.


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## vices like vipers (Aug 21, 2014)

There is some pretty sweet stuff in this thread, I'm loving all the sound clips.
But I would like to know, has any one gone to -2 (aka 00) yet?
I know it sounds crazy, but I'm going to try and build a guitar to go to a C#-2 on, once I finish my other builds.
But I'm not sure if it is even possible, especially on a scale of 34".


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## Roy (Aug 21, 2014)

Probably going to need a 10-string 30" for that..........


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## Winspear (Aug 21, 2014)

vices like vipers said:


> There is some pretty sweet stuff in this thread, I'm loving all the sound clips.
> But I would like to know, has any one gone to -2 (aka 00) yet?
> I know it sounds crazy, but I'm going to try and build a guitar to go to a C#-2 on, once I finish my other builds.
> But I'm not sure if it is even possible, especially on a scale of 34".



That's what Yves Carbonne is tuned to on his 12 string bass - B00, his tuning starts as a 5 string an octave down. I guess most other 11+ string basses are around there too because if they are tuned in 4ths you can't really go higher on the top end. I believe he uses Kalium strings around .240 on 34", and that would still be fairly loose imo (.130+ for B0 x 2 for B00 = .260+)


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## vices like vipers (Aug 21, 2014)

EtherealEntity said:


> That's what Yves Carbonne is tuned to on his 12 string bass - B00, his tuning starts as a 5 string an octave down. I guess most other 11+ string basses are around there too because if they are tuned in 4ths you can't really go higher on the top end. I believe he uses Kalium strings around .240 on 34", and that would still be fairly loose imo (.130+ for B0 x 2 for B00 = .260+)



Alright cool, I thought Yves Carbonne tunes in the 00 range, but I wasn't sure.
So thank you for the info.
I now shall try and proceed with my crazy low dream instrument


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## Unjustly-Labeled (Aug 22, 2014)

Dude, if you really wanna go 00, might as well go for a Quake Bass:
Knuckle Guitar Works - extraordinary instruments for extraordinary players
39.55 inches of doom! That price is doom for us mortals too though...


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## vices like vipers (Aug 22, 2014)

I so would man! But the price is way to much for me hahaha.
Plus I want to tune in fifths, so I need a smaller scale for the treble side.


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## Slam Master (Aug 23, 2014)

For that price i'd just go custom. Or even spend a little more and get something like so: 









Also, i did another playing thing. This is a video/recording thaang



For some down tuned goodness


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## Schectersilence (Sep 5, 2014)

Just added another song with the B0 tuning.

https://soundcloud.com/schectersilence/beachhead

It's a little better than previously (I think anyway). It took me ages to get the damn rhythm guitar recorded because I'm an idiot that way. Again it has B0 tuning for sort of half of the rhythm part. I am sorry that it's a lame song though =/


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## mmj (Sep 8, 2014)

hey guys really like the thread! i was inspired by it so i found this Hadean EB-9705 TR RD - RondoMusic.com i am going to put .150 set on it dentune to 0 octave and use like a guitar let me know what you think i also have a 8 string 27" scale with Floyd rose tuned to c#1 and a 8 string 30" scale fixed bridge tuned to D#1.


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## mmj (Sep 8, 2014)

im trying to find larger string for the 30" scale i have .90 on it because it has long reverse headstock to 10 string sets are too short and then i got the 27" scale becaus ethe headstock was short but could only intonation to c#1 thats why i founf this bass in 34" scale with humbuckers


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## mmj (Sep 9, 2014)

so i have been able to go down to C zero here is a sample of it just the single guitar for clarity it is amplitube for amp sim the engl powerball with pedals tell me what you guys think 
file is flac 44/24 
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/77389334/Zero Octave/zero octave C zero.flac


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## luca9583 (Sep 9, 2014)

mmj said:


> so i have been able to go down to C zero here is a sample of it just the single guitar for clarity it is amplitube for amp sim the engl powerball with pedals tell me what you guys think
> file is flac 44/24
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/77389334/Zero Octave/zero octave C zero.flac



Impressive range...although is that actually a D 0 you're hitting there rather than a C 0?


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## Unjustly-Labeled (Sep 10, 2014)

So, I was bored, then I made some death metal with the Agile in B0:
[SC]https://soundcloud.com/unjustly-labeled/duuthmutulz-rough-mix-test[/SC]
Trying to play in 216bpm after a year of nothing but slow doomy stuff really shows how quickly you deteriorate as a player without practice. What also doesn't help is the 1 year old strings with only 14 pounds of tension... 





Schectersilence said:


> Just added another song with the B0 tuning.
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/schectersilence/beachhead
> 
> It's a little better than previously (I think anyway). It took me ages to get the damn rhythm guitar recorded because I'm an idiot that way. Again it has B0 tuning for sort of half of the rhythm part. I am sorry that it's a lame song though =/



As before, it's got pretty good clarity, but the drums still feel really "preset" or something. Also, do you have a bass in there somewhere? A distinct gnarly bass might make it all blend together better!



mmj said:


> hey guys really like the thread! i was inspired by it so i found this Hadean EB-9705 TR RD - RondoMusic.com i am going to put .150 set on it dentune to 0 octave and use like a guitar let me know what you think i also have a 8 string 27" scale with Floyd rose tuned to c#1 and a 8 string 30" scale fixed bridge tuned to D#1.



That bass looks really similar to the one I used on my album Grotesque, so it'll probably do pretty well!


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## mmj (Sep 10, 2014)

yes sir my mistake your correct it is D0 (i ordered new strings to go to c but haven't arrived so c) was still in my mind )


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## mmj (Sep 10, 2014)

god i love your stuff unjustly labeled i played grotesque at my black metal band practice last night we cranked it up through the pa and broke a lamp off the table moshing so much haha maybe we could put together some bands from this community in this particular thread and do a small tour for fun lol


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## Schectersilence (Sep 10, 2014)

Unjustly-Labeled said:


> As before, it's got pretty good clarity, but the drums still feel really "preset" or something. Also, do you have a bass in there somewhere? A distinct gnarly bass might make it all blend together better.



There's no bass here as my bass guitar is broken.. I don't know what's wrong with it but it also never had the required strings. But I have some recordings in A0 with a bass guitar, and it does improve the sound, but the real problem is my drum program. It just sounds really naff. What do other people use here because I need to upgrade without necessarily spending a fortune?

And maybe I need to upgrade my recording suite as well as what I use is also not great..


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## mmj (Sep 10, 2014)

i use s2 drums with evil drums sdk its titts


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## mmj (Sep 10, 2014)

you can get them captain hook style wink wink \m/ \m/


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## Unjustly-Labeled (Sep 11, 2014)

mmj said:


> god i love your stuff unjustly labeled i played grotesque at my black metal band practice last night we cranked it up through the pa and broke a lamp off the table moshing so much haha maybe we could put together some bands from this community in this particular thread and do a small tour for fun lol



Haha, considering that pretty much every project in this thread is a one man deal, a tour would be really funny to watch. 5 bands in a row where it's just a single guitarist on stage with a backing track consisting of like 15 layers! 



Schectersilence said:


> There's no bass here as my bass guitar is broken.. I don't know what's wrong with it but it also never had the required strings. But I have some recordings in A0 with a bass guitar, and it does improve the sound, but the real problem is my drum program. It just sounds really naff. What do other people use here because I need to upgrade without necessarily spending a fortune?
> 
> And maybe I need to upgrade my recording suite as well as what I use is also not great..



About the broken bass. That death metal I posted up there uses my Agile 828 for bass tracking (mostly due to laziness ). Just run the guitar through a bass patch until you get your bass fixed!

Also, I've always been of the opinion that you can make anything sound good with enough tweaking, so I would hold off on making possibly unnecessary upgrades.


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## mmj (Sep 11, 2014)

i have gotten a few musicians interested in playing this type zero octave stuff just a week after finding out about it lol who knows?


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## mmj (Sep 11, 2014)

i found out an interesting thing i was inspired by trey from morbid angel old setup he put a pro co rat pedal before his jcm-900 adjusted like a tube screamer would be then a eq with 10 db boost so i tried same thing but before an engl in amplitube it seems to really work well with zero octave stuff that was the settings on that sample i put up earlier in D0

sorry bout the multiple posts im on it


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## mmj (Sep 11, 2014)

just found these Warwick Black Label 4 String Bass Dark Lord 085 175 | eBay


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## Buspik (Sep 19, 2014)

My band Enastasia tunes to drop D# on an 8 string. Bass is D#0 
Me personally I have an Agile 28 scale length. I use Circle K strings, top string is an 82

Here's a link to a song and our band page:

https://www.facebook.com/EnastasiaSATX

Enastasia - Visions - YouTube


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## crg123 (Sep 19, 2014)

I guess I'm a temporary member now while I borrow my friend's 10 string. He had it strung up in C standard. I restrung it with Kaliums and dropped it to Low Low B standard (BEADGCFadg). It's been really fun to mess with.







Edit: ...........Nope I still fail and only tune to B1 I guess. I could tune the lowest string to G#0 if I wanted to since its a .106 on the 30" Scale side of the Fan haha.


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## in-pursuit (Sep 20, 2014)

that's Hollowway's old OAF isn't it? seeing that guitar always makes me jelly


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## crg123 (Sep 20, 2014)

Yep! Josh (Anarchydivine88 on here) bought it like two years ago if I remember correctly. Thing is a beast of an instrument. I'm sad I have to Gove in back in a few months once Josh gets back in the country.


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## Tom Drinkwater (Sep 20, 2014)

Hey, that guitar looks familiar. What do you think of those custom Villex pups? Pretty amazing if I remember correctly.


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## Schectersilence (Sep 20, 2014)

God that's beautiful.. Can someone link the NGD for it if there is one? I'm so jealous.


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## ceiling_fan (Sep 20, 2014)

Is that a top loading saddle for the high string? Brilliant idea for fragile strings!


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## crg123 (Sep 21, 2014)

Yes to the custom Villex pickups and the top loading bridge mod! 

I didn't actually need the top loading part for high G but I can imagine it being really helpful for anything higher. The Villex pickups are really interesting. They sound great for cleans, and are pretty even sounding for distorted tones, although I'd say its hard to get a good tone across the board for a 10 string without countless hours of work.

Here's the link to the Original NGD: http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/extended-range-guitars/145313-ngd-oaf-10-string.html

Josh never did a NGD for this but I took plenty of photos for him (he's the one in the photos) that you can see here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/72157634142690737/


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## Hollowway (Sep 21, 2014)

Yeah, that top loading saddle was Tom's (of OAF) creation. It is a super cool idea for getting A4 at 27"! The guitar itself is a beast, and sometimes I wish I still had it, but I really have no use for a high A. I have 3 more OAFs coming, so that should satisfy my any regrets of getting rid of that one!


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## crg123 (Sep 22, 2014)

It's a pretty fun instrument, I'll be sad when I have to give it back to Josh. I agree about the Higher string. It's fun but not super practical (like the difficulty to get it up to tune and not break it). It does add an interesting element when playing large ambient chords though, almost a shimmering high end sound.


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## Unjustly-Labeled (Oct 16, 2014)

Just posted a new b-side track over in my thread, and thought that's as good an excuse as any to bump this thread! 

[SC]https://soundcloud.com/unjustly-labeled/merciless-savagery[/SC]


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## DeKay (Oct 19, 2014)

Released some low tuned album, when I hit dem low notes, it's really low (octaved guitars) most is C#1 tho.


check from 18:25 for example (song is called crippled heart and not poi-noisoned, was a mistake in editing).


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## The Omega Cluster (Dec 7, 2014)

For that album I tuned my bass' low string 14 steps below to A-1 (A minus one) and basically used it as a guitar.

The crackling sound you hear is basically the string wobbling and hitting the fretboard, I think it sounds really creepy as a result, and so I built on that and made a whole album around the idea.

It's pretty limiting to have a string that is _that_ loose, like I almost always use it as an open string. Even then, when I pluck it it shifts by almost a whole tone before stabilizing on or around A (it's hard to tell with sub-hearing frequencies).

For the whole experience, listen to that with cranked up subwoofers, because even though you cannot hear the fundamental tone, you can feel it in your chest if the volume is high enough.

Now that was in August, right now I've just finished recording the second album to this project, and I've shifted the focus a little. Instead of downtuning the string to unplayable levels, I just put an octaver down on the bass track. Music-wise, it's also much more post-metal, with lots of build-ups and long songs with different ideas being developed and played with each other.

Here's a little unmastered teaser for the upcoming album:
https://soundcloud.com/dave-tremblay/vod-teaser


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## Unjustly-Labeled (Feb 27, 2015)

Thought I'd bump this thread back to life with the release of my new album!

https://unjustlylabeled.bandcamp.com/album/beholder


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## SilentCartographer (Feb 27, 2015)

Brown notes!


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## Speedos (Feb 28, 2015)

Unjustly-Labeled said:


> Thought I'd bump this thread back to life with the release of my new album!
> 
> https://unjustlylabeled.bandcamp.com/album/beholder



holy sh*t ! the tone is freakin HUGE!


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## mnemonic (Mar 1, 2015)

Unjustly-Labeled said:


> Thought I'd bump this thread back to life with the release of my new album!
> 
> https://unjustlylabeled.bandcamp.com/album/beholder



Awesome. Sounds super heavy. 

Last week I was thinking I hadn't heard of any new stuff from you in a while, and then boom, new album.


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## jonajon91 (Mar 3, 2015)

So I have a new assignment at my uni to create a song in logic with the only perimeters is that we have to use synths. This made me think I could do something like Unjustly labled when he used synths for those low notes, I figured I could still record bass in the right octave and have big synths beefing it up, add some choir parts and stick some gutteral vocals in and bam, assignment done. 
I was just wondering if you could share how you made your synths (for inspiration obviously, i'm not just going to straight up rip you off) as well as a few tips on mixing this kind of music.


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## Kyleb1130 (Mar 3, 2015)

Unjustly-Labeled said:


> Dude, this is ....ing sweet, and I love that album! It's pretty good to see two completely different styles of production as examples for those interested in tuning to the 0th octave!


Epic song man \m/


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## jonajon91 (Apr 24, 2015)

I've finally joined the club. A0 for this track, please try and ignore the black metal quality production and sub-par vocals, this was a uni assignment.

https://soundcloud.com/jonathan-keeler-1/doom-track


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## Unjustly-Labeled (Apr 24, 2015)

jonajon91 said:


> I've finally joined the club. A0 for this track, please try and ignore the black metal quality production and sub-par vocals, this was a uni assignment.
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/jonathan-keeler-1/doom-track



Hell yeah! Welcome to the club mate! 
I can see the potential there. If you work on the production and double track the gts, it could become some high class doomdrone!


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## Abaddon9112 (Apr 29, 2015)

Just for the hell of it this morning, I made a little Unjustly Labeled homage song using VST instruments. [SC]https://soundcloud.com/jabaddon9112/synth-sludge-anal-armageddon[/SC]

I used a free bass simulator plugin from DSK and ran it through LePou Legion and LeCab2 for the left and right tracks. The center one is the same plugin through the Koloss Bass emulation in EZMix 2. Parts were all humanized a bit to add some realism and depth to the stereo image. 

I called it "Anal Armageddon"...because that's exactly what it sounds like


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## Winspear (Apr 29, 2015)

Joining the club soon with a Bass VI tuned as a 6 string bass  Excited. I think of it more as a 9 string tuned down a step with the plain strings missing. haha


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## Kittenflower (Apr 29, 2015)

Abaddon9112 said:


> Just for the hell of it this morning, I made a little Unjustly Labeled homage song using VST instruments. [SC]https://soundcloud.com/jabaddon9112/synth-sludge-anal-armageddon[/SC]
> 
> I used a free bass simulator plugin from DSK and ran it through LePou Legion and LeCab2 for the left and right tracks. The center one is the same plugin through the Koloss Bass emulation in EZMix 2. Parts were all humanized a bit to add some realism and depth to the stereo image.
> 
> I called it "Anal Armageddon"...because that's exactly what it sounds like



Wow that was some mean-sounding ....  Not bad for emulated sounds


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## knuckle_head (Apr 29, 2015)

EtherealEntity said:


> Joining the club soon with a Bass VI tuned as a 6 string bass  Excited. I think of it more as a 9 string tuned down a step with the plain strings missing. haha



I got your set on hand - took my Squire to NAMM tuned like that. It kills!


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## Unjustly-Labeled (Apr 29, 2015)

Abaddon9112 said:


> Just for the hell of it this morning, I made a little Unjustly Labeled homage song using VST instruments.
> 
> I called it "Anal Armageddon"...because that's exactly what it sounds like


Fvck! Now I just felt like I had to do the same thing using only VST Basses as well:

[SC]https://soundcloud.com/unjustly-labeled/programmed-sludge[/SC]

It's nice to see some activity in this thread again!


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## Abaddon9112 (May 2, 2015)

I made another one with the VST basses. Put a little more time into this one; I'm pretty freakin' satisfied with how it turned out. 

[SC]https://soundcloud.com/jabaddon9112/the-noble-and-most-ancient-art-of-suicide[/SC]

There's some ridiculously low notes in this. Probably best to use good headphones or a stereo with a sub and turn it up loud lol. I think the lowest note in the song is an octave below a five-string bass


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## Unjustly-Labeled (Jun 10, 2015)

Abaddon, you totally inspired me to make a full album with the programmed vst basses!  Took a little while to actually release it, since I've gotten into a bad habit of sitting on music forever. 

But here it is!
https://unjustlylabeled.bandcamp.com/album/ahriman


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## Abaddon9112 (Jun 10, 2015)

Unjustly-Labeled said:


> Abaddon, you totally inspired me to make a full album with the programmed vst basses!  Took a little while to actually release it, since I've gotten into a bad habit of sitting on music forever.
> 
> But here it is!
> https://unjustlylabeled.bandcamp.com/album/ahriman



Awesome stuff man! Makes me feel like I'm playing some fantasy game that involves navigating through underground dungeons. Glad I could offer another way to produce this kind of stuff.

Since I'm really just a dabbler in 0th octave stuff, I'm probably just gonna use VST instruments to do it from now on. I can't really justify getting all new instruments and gear for this right now...But anyone who wants to try producing insanely low music can get a bass sim plugin and mess around for little cost.


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## Unjustly-Labeled (Jun 15, 2015)

Abaddon9112 said:


> Awesome stuff man! Makes me feel like I'm playing some fantasy game that involves navigating through underground dungeons. Glad I could offer another way to produce this kind of stuff.
> 
> Since I'm really just a dabbler in 0th octave stuff, I'm probably just gonna use VST instruments to do it from now on. I can't really justify getting all new instruments and gear for this right now...But anyone who wants to try producing insanely low music can get a bass sim plugin and mess around for little cost.


Thanks man! It's weird how the tiniest things can trigger a rush of creative energy. 

And regarding the VST stuff. I think there's a lot of things that can be done with VST. I've been listening to lots of electronic music lately, and there's some great stuff being made there, things that sound more metal than a lot of genuine metal albums I've heard.

Also, if anyone really wants to make 0th octave stuff, and can't shell out the cash for the kinds of instruments needed (with proper scale, pickups, and build quality), or they're not available in their area, just look at some of my albums, which are produced entirely on basses. You can get some really great 5-strings for real low prices pretty much everywhere, and all guitarists should own at least one bass regardless!


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## Unjustly-Labeled (Dec 8, 2015)

Bumping thread to shill my new side project being finished! 

It's that black metal project I've been messing with for a good long while. Decided that it's time to publish it, so here it is:

https://urtidsfader.bandcamp.com/

I'm using the Agile Intrepid 828 again. Needed the higher range and the ease of playing chords I couldn't really get on a bass. It's still tuned to the Drop-B0 tuning, and it's still using a flabby 10-60 plus a 90 gauge string.


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## Cobra (Dec 8, 2015)

[SC]https://soundcloud.com/torjeamundsen/dje0nt[/SC]

Made this track 5 days ago. Ibanez rg2228 tuned to drop-e (08|38+60+80 NYXL) and a 4-string bc rich pitched down to E0 (!) yes, an octave below normal bass tuning, using axe-fx II with a preset I made. it's on axechange, search for Cobrango


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## Unjustly-Labeled (Dec 11, 2015)

Cobra said:


> Made this track 5 days ago. Ibanez rg2228 tuned to drop-e


Sorry dude, it's not quite for this thread then, right? The main instrument, which is that guitar in this case, is not below C1, it's up at E1.

Also, ya might wanna look into dual tracking those gts and hard panning them! It'll sound a lot better that way.


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## GunpointMetal (Feb 11, 2016)

How are you guys handling tuning below 5-string bass B? none of my tuners will register the low, low A on my 9-string so I'm stuck tuning the 12th fret/octave then checking E/D in at the 7th/5th to try and gauge my intonation...kind of a pain. It doesn't sound out of tune, but I'd like to be more precise with it.


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## Action (Feb 11, 2016)

GunpointMetal said:


> How are you guys handling tuning below 5-string bass B? none of my tuners will register the low, low A on my 9-string so I'm stuck tuning the 12th fret/octave then checking E/D in at the 7th/5th to try and gauge my intonation...kind of a pain. It doesn't sound out of tune, but I'd like to be more precise with it.



The digital tuners I've used all track to Ab0 or G0. The free Gtune VST plugin does G0.

I think it's a good idea to check the 12th fret harmonic and check the sound of fretted notes anyway.


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## monkeysuncle (Feb 13, 2016)

You guys seriously need to post pics of the guits your using for this stuff!


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## DeKay (Feb 13, 2016)

Here have some low F#0 on bass and on guitar aswell! BASS POV


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## GunpointMetal (Feb 15, 2016)

Here's a two track demo from my whatever ....ing angry genre of music you want to call it band. Guitars are Agile Interceptor Pro 930s tuned to A0-E1-A1 then standard up from there. We're going to try to have a video soon.
https://disgunt.bandcamp.com/album/disgunt


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## GunpointMetal (Feb 15, 2016)

Action said:


> The digital tuners I've used all track to Ab0 or G0. The free Gtune VST plugin does G0.
> 
> I think it's a good idea to check the 12th fret harmonic and check the sound of fretted notes anyway.


I didn't even think about a VST..G-tune works awesome, so I can get everything set-up that way and then trust the intonation/fretted notes when I have to tune live. Thanks for the tip.


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## Unjustly-Labeled (Feb 16, 2016)

GunpointMetal said:


> Here's a two track demo from my whatever ....ing angry genre of music you want to call it band. Guitars are Agile Interceptor Pro 930s tuned to A0-E1-A1 then standard up from there. We're going to try to have a video soon.
> https://disgunt.bandcamp.com/album/disgunt


Holy fvck, the tone for those low chugs are delicious!  Sadly, the music really isn't my style. I'd love to hear this kind of thing closer to the style of Ingested.

Edit:


GunpointMetal said:


> How are you guys handling tuning below 5-string bass B? none of my tuners will register the low, low A on my 9-string so I'm stuck tuning the 12th fret/octave then checking E/D in at the 7th/5th to try and gauge my intonation...kind of a pain. It doesn't sound out of tune, but I'd like to be more precise with it.


I've always tuned from whatever fret gives the integrated tuner in Amplitube a readable note, which got kinda ridiculous when I had sections of F#0 and below, having to pretty much turn up the gain AND tune from the 12th fret because otherwise it couldn't understand "wut, wat dis?"


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## Winspear (Feb 20, 2016)

It's funny, always seeing talk about tuners for low notes and here I am still using this decade old badboy for E0 bass and B0 guitar


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## GunpointMetal (Feb 22, 2016)

Mine stopped reading when I went for A....along with every other digital tuner in my house. That free VST tuner works pretty well, though.


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## ThePIGI King (Feb 22, 2016)

EtherealEntity said:


> It's funny, always seeing talk about tuners for low notes and here I am still using this decade old badboy for E0 bass and B0 guitar



I never even thought about using that for my 8 string...you may just be my new favorite person in this thread because of that. Why didn't I ever think about using it? Thanks, Ethereal!


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## Unjustly-Labeled (Mar 11, 2016)

Released a new album which is kinda like a more polished version of Ahriman stylewise. I'm using Trilogy bass vst's for all of the heavy stuff, and I think the main limitation I've run into is that chords sound like sh!te, to the point of being unusable, and slides are extremely hard to get sounding good. I'm probably gonna return to using real instruments for future projects.



Download link:
https://unjustlylabeled.bandcamp.com/album/dystopia


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## Schectersilence (Oct 20, 2016)

N.E.C.R.O.B.U.M.P.

https://soundcloud.com/schectersilence/b0-1

Just got a new guitar (the NGD is still on the main page), and did this simple B0 chug-along. All tuned to B0!


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## getowned7474 (Oct 20, 2016)

Schectersilence said:


> N.E.C.R.O.B.U.M.P.
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/schectersilence/b0-1
> 
> Just got a new guitar (the NGD is still on the main page), and did this simple B0 chug-along. All tuned to B0!



That is DISGUSTING (In a good way of course). I personally have no interest in tuning lower than drop E on my 8 string(maybe occasionally Eb or D for fun?) but that is pretty cool. I can't imagine hearing something like that live where all the low frequencies are actually getting pushed out of the speakers unlike my headphones.


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## Schectersilence (Oct 20, 2016)

getowned7474 said:


> That is DISGUSTING (In a good way of course). I personally have no interest in tuning lower than drop E on my 8 string(maybe occasionally Eb or D for fun?) but that is pretty cool. I can't imagine hearing something like that live where all the low frequencies are actually getting pushed out of the speakers unlike my headphones.



I would tend to agree, but I used my 9 at a jam recently, and the note clarity was incredible. The other guy had an 8 string, and I octaved the notes where appropriate, along with the bassist, and the room absolutely shook, but you could really hear the note. It's definitely not blind bass. I was amazed.


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## Abaddon9112 (Oct 22, 2016)

Yo! been a while since I've posted anything on here. Got messing around this morning with my ultra-low VST bass stuff. Trying to push the low end sludginess to the absolute limit with 0th octave diminished-5th power chords. I think its appropriately bowel-churning! 

[SC]https://soundcloud.com/jabaddon9112/pulverized-by-giant-japanese-robots[/SC]


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## Hollowway (Oct 22, 2016)

After continually tuning lower and lower on guitar (my 10 goes to G#0) I finally decided to get a bass tuned down. I bought a 5 string NG2 dingwall, set it up at F#0, and got a used MAS112 from Mike Arnopol Soundworks. I'm shocked how clear it is. I play through headphones a lot, and these notes are decidedly more audible and articulate IRL.


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## Tenaba (Nov 7, 2016)

Hollowway said:


> After continually tuning lower and lower on guitar (my 10 goes to G#0) I finally decided to get a bass tuned down. I bought a 5 string NG2 dingwall, set it up at F#0, and got a used MAS112 from Mike Arnopol Soundworks. I'm shocked how clear it is. I play through headphones a lot, and these notes are decidedly more audible and articulate IRL.



An articulate, but distorted F#0 sounds like a real challenge! Any clips you could show?

I also just tried guitar-ifying my 35" bass (the only bass I have), and I have a feeling I'm doing something very wrong, considering the success other people have gotten here.

I'm using a 50,67,90,120,160 set. The .160 sounds terrible no matter what I tuned it to, the .120 was okay, and everything above sounded fine, but of course, those weren't tuned to the 0th octave. Palm-muting sounded bad, chords were incoherent, so I'm wondering how you guys do it. Like, the link in the OP sounded very cool and clear, and that was on a 28.625" scale length.

For reference, I was trying A0-B0 across the top four strings, ignored the .160. I'm assuming I'd need to use thinner strings in order to get a good sound, as the low .120 was still pretty muddy.

I'd like to get a 30"+ guitar to try A0-C1, but shipping an Agile through UPS costs a lot of money. Or at least a 34-35" bass with guitar string-spacing. 

Any kind of advice? Sorry if my post is kinda unreadable, my brain hurts.


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## ixlramp (Nov 14, 2016)

.120 at A0 or B0 is still a bass-like tension, i suggest using thinner strings at lower tension, for that more guitar-like tone. For example try detuning the .090 as far as is practical. A .120 tends to be stiff and might have 3 or 4 layers of wrap wire, 3 is better, 2 even better. I know that Kalium strings are very flexible and i think they have a 2-wrap .098, they may even have a 2-wrap .106.


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## Hollowway (Nov 17, 2016)

Yeah, thinner is better, and longer scale length is better, but when you get up over 29" the length starts to cause the string to require higher tension. So it might well be that a 34" or 35" scale length cannot make a low note sound better than, say, 30". Because you still need a thicker string to compensate for the long vibrating length. Like ixlramp was saying, a thinner string would work better. And you might be able to use a shorter scale length with that thinner string, as well. 

What we really need is a test guitar with fanned frets from 29-35" and test the different string thicknesses to see what the seeet spot is.


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## bostjan (Nov 17, 2016)

Hollowway said:


> ...but when you get up over 29" the length starts to cause the string to require higher tension.



I've noticed this myself and don't have a good scientific explanation for it...yet. I think it starts to be noticeable before you get to 29", though. My first instinct was that it must be some non-conservative tension on wound strings, like friction or something, but the effect of that should be far too small to notice at any practical length.


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## ixlramp (Nov 18, 2016)

I think it's because, for a constant tension, having the end points further apart causes easier sideways string excursion, so the string is more prone to flop, and has a lower perceived tension.

Imagine (or improvise on a guitar without changing tension) a short section of string with fixed ends only a few inches apart, it's going to be much more difficult to deflect sideways and will feel tighter. Because the fixed points are closer, a certain sideways deflection causes sharper changes of string angle, so the sideways restoring force component of the tension is larger.



Hollowway said:


> So it might well be that a 34" or 35" scale length cannot make a low note sound better than, say, 30". Because you still need a thicker string to compensate for the long vibrating length.



I'm sure this behaviour is not significant enough to completely remove the advantage of longer strings, everyone knows that for very low notes longer works better. But yes a higher tension is needed, you can't use the same guitar-like tension.


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## Hollowway (Nov 18, 2016)

ixlramp said:


> I think it's because, for a constant tension, having the end points further apart causes easier sideways string excursion, so the string is more prone to flop, and has a lower perceived tension.
> 
> Imagine (or improvise on a guitar without changing tension) a short section of string with fixed ends only a few inches apart, it's going to be much more difficult to deflect sideways and will feel tighter. Because the fixed points are closer, a certain sideways deflection causes sharper changes of string angle, so the sideways restoring force component of the tension is larger.
> 
> ...




Yeah, I think that's where inharmonicity comes in for really short lengths and thick strings. But yeah, I still really want to do a 29-34" 10 string. Everyone thinks I'm a lunatic, but that would have to sound really cool on the G#0. An e-scale Oni would be awesome for a 10 string like that, but I don't have that sort of discretionary income!


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## NorCal_Val (Nov 19, 2016)

Yet another tune we're working on while looking for a vocalist.
De-tuned M80M through a Logic pedalboard fuzz, then into LePou amp and cab sims.
[SC]https://soundcloud.com/norcal_val/witchhammer[/SC]


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## Unjustly-Labeled (Nov 25, 2016)

Wow, I just happen to think "maybe I should check on my threads, it's been ages..." and look at that!



Schectersilence said:


> N.E.C.R.O.B.U.M.P.



It's alive! It's ALIIIVE! 

All joking aside, I've been gone from here because I've been doing 3 concurrent projects, of which I made teasers, because why not!

[SC]https://soundcloud.com/unjustly-labeled/unjustly-labeled-new-album-teaser[/SC]
First is the album that's been sitting around on my comp for a while, as I've been thinking of redoing some small stuff on it. It's probably gonna be the last I do of these completely VST based albums.

[SC]https://soundcloud.com/unjustly-labeled/urtidsfader-new-album-teaser[/SC]
Next up is my black metal project, which is getting a sequel. I'm still recording vocals for this, which takes me a long ass time when I don't know what kinds of noises I wanna make from my throat. 

The third album I'm working on also has a teaser up, but I can't post it here. No 0th octave played there! 



Cardbird said:


> An articulate, but distorted F#0 sounds like a real challenge! Any clips you could show?
> 
> I also just tried guitar-ifying my 35" bass (the only bass I have), and I have a feeling I'm doing something very wrong, considering the success other people have gotten here.
> 
> ...


If the point is getting clarity and bite out of a bass when playing it like a guitar, I'd start looking at something like a 100 gauge string at the bottom (for the A0), but most of the clarity comes from the tone, which you need to fvck with a lot when doing 0th octave stuff. Also look at eq'ing before the amp and such, as well as after the cabinet (whether amp&cab sim or real deal). After that, I'd say pick attack becomes a major player in tone. I've kinda learned to pick very sharply, but not hard (because I play such loose strings most of the time that picking hard just doesn't work), so maybe I just know how to get bite out of my tone even when playing on 3 year old strings that feel like playing shoelaces.

Aside from that, I really don't know what to say. Maybe you could post something to demonstrate the issue?


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## Faldoe (Nov 28, 2016)

So low


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## Hollowway (Nov 28, 2016)

FYI, Skip and the gang are resurrecting the Quake bass for NAMM. Finally! I need to get one and shoot for way lower than F#0. I know, I know, if I play that low I should just get a 128 foot pipe organ. But, nevertheless, I am going to buy one and piss people off with my desire to tune below F#0. I'm not sure how much lower, but my F#0 sounds awesome at 37", so who knows!


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## bostjan (Nov 30, 2016)

128 foot scale length?! But does it djent? [audience groans at tired joke]

If there was an affordable import version of the Quake, I think we'd have a minor revolution in subcontra playing.

The funny things about 37", to me, are that a) it doesn't feel like any more of a stretch than 35", and b) I don't really feel like I can tune that much lower and still get good results. I was already doing F0 at 35". F0 at 37" with better pickups and electronics sounds better, but E0 still sounds like muck to my ears. Maybe I haven't reached a good optimum for string gauge yet... but that's what leads me to think that maybe the Quake would just be another small incremental improvement in tone. Double basses are tuned E1 and have a ~43" scale length. Why can't there be an electric bass with a >43" scale length?!


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## ixlramp (Dec 1, 2016)

The Quake with a Kalium .266 allows the G#00 2 strings below F#0.

As far as i know Skip is working on electric upright basses with scales up to 60", no idea if one will be ready for NAMM, i'm hoping. That scale will allow the sub-10Hz D#00 below G#00. However his main stated intent with extreme scales is how they improve non-extreme low notes such as standard low B, by allowing a much lower gauge.

An idea i like is to use extreme scale lengths for tapping instruments where you don't need to reach near the bridge at all. The scale length also compensates for the usually unusable open string and first fret due to a string damper. It also allows for a longer section of string to be damped, without loosing too much usable scale length.


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## bostjan (Dec 1, 2016)

ixlramp said:


> The Quake with a Kalium .266 allows the G#00 2 strings below F#0.
> 
> As far as i know Skip is working on electric upright basses with scales up to 60", no idea if one will be ready for NAMM, i'm hoping. That scale will allow the sub-10Hz D#00 below G#00. However his main stated intent with extreme scales is how they improve non-extreme low notes such as standard low B, by allowing a much lower gauge.
> 
> An idea i like is to use extreme scale lengths for tapping instruments where you don't need to reach near the bridge at all. The scale length also compensates for the usually unusable open string and first fret due to a string damper. It also allows for a longer section of string to be damped, without loosing too much usable scale length.



D#00 at 39.5" with a 0.266:

Tension - 19.7 N (this is really low tension for a bass, compare with E1 with a 0.100" on a 34" scale standard bass at 36.9 N)
Inharmonicity in the first harmonic - 509% (!) (compare with E1 @ 0.100" diameter on 34" scale at 7%)

I'd have to try it, but that does not look promising to me.


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## ixlramp (Dec 1, 2016)

Just to clarify, D#00 is intended for the 60" scale instrument.


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## LordCashew (Dec 1, 2016)

bostjan said:


> If there was an affordable import version of the Quake, I think we'd have a minor revolution in subcontra playing.



That's an intriguing idea. I imagine that if Skip wanted to take the time to work on an import Quake with WMI, something pretty cool could happen. I don't know if there's enough demand to make that process worthwhile, though...


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## GunpointMetal (Dec 2, 2016)

Rondo makes a FF 5-string bass with a 37" bottom end. Looks pretty cool except for the guitar-like rail pickups. Kinda wanna get wanna and go for A00.


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## idunno (Jan 5, 2017)

just wanna say I read the whole thread and everyone had something awesome to contribute and ill be grabbing a few of your albums soon.
The lowest ive gone was G0 with my MTD kingston bass. working on getting guitars ultra low now.

quick question, I was thinking of grabbing some sort of garbage cheap 5 string bass, adding a tuner or two and new nut and new bridge then sticking thinner strings on it and shooting for super low. basically a 34" scale baritone 6-7 string guitar of sorts lol. I feel like ive seen this done once before somewhere. Any thoughts?


Also, ive built several guitars and I could technically just man up make the proper instrument but I can get a used rogue/pawnshop bass for like 100$ and I have all the other parts lying around besides super long strings. kinda just a fun experiment thing


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## Hollowway (Jan 6, 2017)

Yeah, you could do that, but the longer the scale length the higher the tension needed to combat the inherent floppiness of the longer length. In other words, stringing a bass as a guitar won't necessarily let you go lower than a bass, pitch-wise. 

And speaking of Quakes, you guys should all know that the new Quakes are coming out at NAMM. And they start at $2000. Which is expensive, but cheaper than the last iteration.


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## ixlramp (Jan 6, 2017)

> quick question, I was thinking of grabbing some sort of garbage cheap 5 string bass, adding a tuner or two and new nut and new bridge then sticking thinner strings on it and shooting for super low. basically a 34" scale baritone 6-7 string guitar of sorts lol. I feel like ive seen this done once before somewhere. Any thoughts?

It works well, but best to first experiment by restringing a bass to see if you like it, before converting string count.
Most of my basses are restrung to baritone pitch with low tension (15-25 pounds) thin strings.

> the longer the scale length the higher the tension needed to combat the inherent floppiness of the longer length.

Yes, but not much more tension is needed. I realised that perceived tension and effort needed to fret a note falls with scale length, which compensates for the higher absolute tension needed, the result is a similar feel at a higher absolute tension.
Essentially, it is still worth using a longer scale length to go lower and become clearer.

Kalium's new Quakes at $2000 seems a good price for something so special. Apparently Skip had the basic rough instruments made by someone else and will be finishing them off himself.


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## Hollowway (Jan 6, 2017)

ixlramp said:


> Yes, but not much more tension is needed. I realised that perceived tension and effort needed to fret a note falls with scale length, which compensates for the higher absolute tension needed, the result is a similar feel at a higher absolute tension.
> Essentially, it is still worth using a longer scale length to go lower and become clearer.



Yeah, that's a much better way of stating it. It's not the real tension, but I don't know if there's a technical term. But for me I find that 27-28" is the sweet spot for F#1. For C#1, interestingly, I want to go longer than 30".

For bass lengths, I've only experimented with F#0 at 37". It will be interesting to see what the Quake feels like at 39.5". For both the F#0 and the C#0.


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## Da Butt Bandit (Jan 12, 2017)

I've been trawling through this thread for a while, and I don't know if you guys have seen this but it's gotten me pretty inspired: https://youtu.be/ua-f0ypVbPA?t=52 and https://youtu.be/ua-f0ypVbPA?t=150
Ever since I heard Meshuggah's Spasm I've been tuning down to Bb0 on a 25.5" 7, call me crazy for the scale/number of strings.

EDIT: Tuning in the video is down to A0, which is why I put it here.


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