# Should multiple false stories about war zones end Bill O'Reilly's career?



## Explorer (Feb 22, 2015)

Bill O'Reilly Has His Own Brian Williams Problem | Mother Jones

Short version: Bill O'Reilly claimed to be in the actual Faulkland Islands, in the war zone, during that war, but no CBS or even US reporters made it to the war zone. 

Bill O'Reilly also claimed to have been in a situation where soldiers were killing civilians, but that wasn't true either. 

O'Reilly also talked about being in a evacuated village, leveled to the ground and destroyed by fire, but the actual footage doesn't match his current war stories. Instead, only two buildings were burnt, and there are people walking around. 

Mother Jones ran a story detailing the actual facts, juxtaposed with O'Reilly's claims. O'Reilly and Fox News were given a chance to respond before publication, but they didn't do so. 

Bill O'Reilly Responds. We Annotate. | Mother Jones

Short version: Bill O'Reilly makes more claims. Mother Jones adds fact checking into the mix, and O'Reilly is still not truthful. 

----

I think Bill O'Reilly made a comment during his Talking Points about Brian Williams that if you can't trust a news anchor or commentator, then you're not going to watch that person. 

I believe that O'Reilly is going to show that some people will continue to trust someone even if they have been caught being very dishonest, just because of their ideology. 

It would be interesting (and shocking) if Fox had Bill take a leave of absence for a time. It would be a clear sign that Fox agreed with its own staff's comments on the Brian Williams case, and that it was driven by journalistic integrity instead of political interests.

Does anyone expect Fox and Bill O'Reilly to stand up for those principles?


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## AngstRiddenDreams (Feb 22, 2015)

Why has this happened more than once this year in American news?

Edit because drunk post


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## Hollowway (Feb 22, 2015)

Maybe I'm jaded, but are people really trusting news anchors to be honest? It seems to me they're paid to read whatever is put in front of them, and what is put in front of them has far more to do with ratings and making money for the show/station than anything regarding public interest or journalism. I don't see any major TV news source as having any integrity at all. I seem to remember a few incidents in which a story was squashed because of how it portrayed a sponsor or investor of the station.


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## Necris (Feb 22, 2015)

I'd pay good money to watch him and Brian Williams reminisce about situations they believe they were in.


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## Demiurge (Feb 22, 2015)

I don't know if there's an exact equivalence with the Brian Williams situation. It's like the difference between an MLB player corking his bat (Williams) and a professional wrestler hitting his opponent with a folding chair (O'Reilly)- journalism seems to have that pretense of accuracy and integrity where with punditry "truthiness" is kind of the minimal standard.


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## tedtan (Feb 22, 2015)

Hollowway said:


> Maybe I'm jaded, but are people really trusting news anchors to be honest?



Agreed. Maybe I'm getting old (too late ) or maybe I'm just cynical, but I I don't trust public figures. And I don't trust a lot of regular, every day people, either. If someone wants my trust, they have to earn it.


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## will_shred (Feb 22, 2015)

If every news anchor on fox news who has told a lie on air were fired, they would be out of anchors. Yes he should be fired, but Billo has spun much bigger shitwebs on live TV and gotten away without so much as a slap on the wrist.


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## Hollowway (Feb 22, 2015)

tedtan said:


> Agreed. Maybe I'm getting old (too late ) or maybe I'm just cynical, but I I don't trust public figures. And I don't trust a lot of regular, every day people, either. If someone wants my trust, they have to earn it.



Yeah, even doctors can end up offering compromised advice. Or quoting the studies that support what they want. That's why (at least in California) they stopped allowing drug companies to wine and dine the doctors. It got to the point where, if you looked at the prescription habits of the doctors, you could tell very easily when a company started wining and dining the doc.

The good news is there's a lot of sources for news, and there are still loads of honest journalists. But you really need to take an amalgamation of it all. It's like asking a friend what happened in some school incident. You're an idiot if you stop there and go with that info. You really need to ask a few people. Same thing with the news, unfortunately. While I think Brian Williams is WAY more trustworthy than Bill O'Reilly - especially since Bill O'Reilly says he's just playing a really conservative figure on TV - I still wouldn't trust Brian Williams as my only source of news. And the vast majority of the time there is NO digging that occurs, no fact checking, nothing really "journalistic" at all. All Williams is doing is reading headlines. And headlines mean little if you can't get the background on it.


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## Explorer (Feb 25, 2015)

So now it turns out that Bill O'Reilly made another claim about being in the thick of things.

Writing about himself in the third person in his book Killing Kennedy, Bill O'Reilly says he...



> ...raced de Mohrenschildt to Palm Beach, Florida and travelled there to confront him. At the time de Mohrenschildt had been called to testify before a congressional committee looking into the events of November 1963._ As the reporter knocked on the door of de Mohrenschildt&#8217;s daughter&#8217;s home, he heard the shotgun blast [Emphasis added] _that marked the suicide of the Russian, assuring that his relationship with Lee Harvey Oswald would never be fully understood.
> 
> By the way, that reporter&#8217;s name is Bill O&#8217;Reilly.


Dumb dumb DUUUUUUMB!

But wait... it turns out he was actually in Dallas on that day, and not in Miami at all!

Here's a page with the story, including audio of Bill in Dallas. 

JFKfacts » Investigator&#8217;s tape exposes Bill O&#8217;Reilly&#8217;s JFK fib

Hey, wait a minute... Dallas is about 1200 miles from Miami, just like the Falkland islands are 1200 miles from Argentina! That's twice where the Bill man was 1200 miles from where he claimed!

Bill O'Reilly... too stupid to know where he actually is, or just a inveterate and unmitigated liar? You decide, based on the facts or on your ideology!


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## Explorer (Feb 25, 2015)

Oh, and a different thought: It's not a question, if it ever was, that Bill is willing to lie to aggrandize himself. 

But what does it say about a major news network that it is willing to fight to defend those lies?


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## TRENCHLORD (Feb 25, 2015)

I believe Bill any day over these "mother jones?" clowns, but hey liberals need something to grasp onto in these their desperate days .

Sorry, nice try Mother.


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## asher (Feb 25, 2015)

TRENCHLORD said:


> I believe Bill any day over these "mother jones?" clowns, but hey liberals need something to grasp onto in these their desperate days .
> 
> Sorry, nice try Mother.



"Who are you going to believe, me or your own lying eyes?"


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## Explorer (Feb 25, 2015)

I'm fairly certain that trenchlord will remain silent on the audio where Bill himself shows his future self to be a liar.

Trenchlord is good at ignoring evidence which contradicts his politics.

Trenchlord did this before when arguing in favor of Fox and neocons, while completely refusing to watch the clips which were actually being discussed. 

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/po.../279246-irony-thy-name-fox-3.html#post4157300

In that topic, he finally admitted that he hadn't watched what we were all talking about. He had entered the discussion to deny the existence of the provided clip. 

In the face of either either such strong cognitive dissonance, or blatant intellectual dishonesty, I think I'm willing to dismiss trenchlord as a political troll until he's willing to actually look at things which contradict his political/ideological views.

*Hey, trenchlord! What did you make of the excerpt of Bill's book, and the audio tape where Bill calls his future self a liar regarding the future book's claims about Bill being in Miami instead of Dallas?

(I expect either crickets, or for him to explain why he's not going to listen to Bill contradicting future Bill's lies. Which path do the rest of you think he'll take?)*


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## michblanch (Feb 26, 2015)

Bill is a megalomaniac. He spews his opinion just like Limbaugh, Olbermann and Meadow as fact. When it is merely half truths and personal interpretations that inflame and put ass's in front of the TV and them on the other competing networks. 

I hate Journalist and networks that are in movies. 
Wolf Blitzer and CNN are the worst. 

Networks want us to believe that they are credible. 
And movie studio's know this. Studio's could get any actor and make a fake newsroom to tell us that Zombies are invading. But they don't. 

They find a news agency like FOX, MSNBC... OU812 , GFYS or whoever to make it seem more realistic. 

Journalist talk bout integrity and trust, but are more than willing to sell what ever needs to be sold. Be it a war against Saddam , Zombies, ISIS, Vampires, Ebola, Little Green Men.


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## groverj3 (Feb 26, 2015)

Yes


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## Explorer (Feb 28, 2015)

You mean trenchlord hasn't come back? I'm not surprised.


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## TRENCHLORD (Feb 28, 2015)

Explorer said:


> You mean trenchlord hasn't come back? I'm not surprised.



Come back? Sorry but .

Bill is right and you are wrong Explorer, like always .
Just can't stand that he's #1 still, can you?

And what ever happened to that darned Jon Stewart guy anyways?


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## pushpull7 (Feb 28, 2015)

I actually could care less about the story, but my problem with bill oreally is why would anyone watch him? (and please don't say republicans, because a LOT of republicans hate him)

Anyone that would take that guy seriously is clueless. (but I like dennis miller  )


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## TRENCHLORD (Feb 28, 2015)

pushpull7 said:


> I actually could care less about the story, but my problem with bill oreally is why would anyone watch him? (and please don't say republicans, because a LOT of republicans hate him)



The fact that he's hated by both those on the far-left and the far-right, and the highest rated show should explain a lot. Traditional average America loves the guy because his views and attitudes most accurately represent their own, and they trust him because he calls out both/either side of the debate when the facts don't add up.


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## MaxOfMetal (Feb 28, 2015)

ITT: Folks taking trench seriously.


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## TRENCHLORD (Mar 1, 2015)

MaxOfMetal said:


> ITT: Folks taking trench seriously.




Well they just won't quit picking on uncle Bill !!!


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## Explorer (Mar 1, 2015)

So, in the case of Bill O'Reilly contradicting himself, either by claiming he was in Dallas on the tape or claiming he was in Miami in the book...



TRENCHLORD said:


> Bill is right





GeorgeOrwell said:


> There are five fingers there. Do you see five fingers?
> Yes.
> And he did see them, for a fleeting instant, before the scenery of his mind changed. He saw five fingers, and there was no deformity.
> 
> ...


Thanks for finally defining the logic-free world of Fox News!


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## pushpull7 (Mar 1, 2015)

TRENCHLORD said:


> The fact that he's hated by both those on the far-left and the far-right, and the highest rated show should explain a lot. Traditional average America loves the guy because his views and attitudes most accurately represent their own, and they trust him because he calls out both/either side of the debate when the facts don't add up.



Well, I dunno. Call me weird.....but I just think of him as a loud-mouthed/self-righteous fool that interrupts constantly and knows the sound of coins running out of the slot. (for you younger adults that have only been to an indian gaming casino, you used to get COINS dropping out of slots  )


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## Spaced Out Ace (Mar 1, 2015)

I don't think News anchors of any sort have been honest since about the 1950s or thereabout. In fact, especially since 2001, the US Media has seemed more like a state run semi-official public relations firm for the US Department of Defense. And as far as right/left or liberal/conservative news goes... .... em. Both are a joke, and I think they are in on a gentlemanly competition/challenge to outdo each other in telling the biggest lie with the most people falling for it. 

And that in a nutshell is the US News media and politics.

As for Bill O'Reilly, he apparently says whatever the teleprompter and/or ghost writer tells him to say. #We'lldoitlive!


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## TRENCHLORD (Mar 1, 2015)

pushpull7 said:


> Well, I dunno. Call me weird.....but I just think of him as a loud-mouthed/self-righteous fool that interrupts constantly and knows the sound of coins running out of the slot. (for you younger adults that have only been to an indian gaming casino, you used to get COINS dropping out of slots  )



Fair enough, and I'll agree he interrupts a bit too much, but I'll also point out that much of the media doesn't interrupt enough, they instead just sit there and pander to the bloviations.


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## pushpull7 (Mar 1, 2015)

I just don't think of him as the "media"

And I vote republican most of the time


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## TRENCHLORD (Mar 1, 2015)

pushpull7 said:


> I just don't think of him as the "media"
> 
> And I vote republican most of the time



Well he's an editorialist in fact, so it's all about opinion and analysis on The Factor. It's not a hard news show (just the facts mam) nor do they market it as such.
Just good ole fair and balanced debate.


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## 7stg (Mar 1, 2015)

FOX, CNN, MSNBC, it doesn't matter, they all lie constantly.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Mar 1, 2015)

7stg said:


> FOX, CNN, MSNBC, it doesn't matter, they all lie constantly.



This. Garbage in, garbage out. Politics, Hollywood, media... they all know how to lie. Not very well, but most people seem to love their lies very obvious.


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## Drew (Mar 1, 2015)

Bill O'Reilly survived getting caught with a bottle of oxycodone or percocet he didn't have a prescription for, after spending years talking about how drug users should be thrown in jail and shown no mercy. This isn't likely to catch up with him either. He's evidently enough of a megalomaniac to be immune to hypocrisy.


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## TRENCHLORD (Mar 1, 2015)

Drew said:


> Bill O'Reilly survived getting caught with a bottle of oxycodone or percocet he didn't have a prescription for, after spending years talking about how drug users should be thrown in jail and shown no mercy.




False .

Anyone who watches themselves instead of eating the left-wing garbage would know that Bill gets tough on the Drug dealers and gang stuff.
Never have I heard him support throwing the common drug user in jail at all, let alone as you say with "no mercy" .

Some of you guys really are just spewing leftist shiiiit at this point. Especially Explorer, but that's so normal for him/her.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Mar 1, 2015)

Isn't that more of a Rush Limbaugh thing...?


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## Drew (Mar 1, 2015)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Isn't that more of a Rush Limbaugh thing...?



You know, I absolutely was confusing O'Reilly with Limbaugh. I'm no fan of O'Reilly, but Limbaugh is definitely quite a bit farther off the deep end than O'Reilly is.


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## pushpull7 (Mar 2, 2015)

Please don't get me started on lush lintball 

He started here. This is a guy who has two agendas: listening to himself and packing his accounts full of money. A hypocrite in the extreme.


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## Chonker (Mar 7, 2015)

This should definitely end his career, you can't just make shit up and report it as the news.


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## pushpull7 (Mar 8, 2015)

Fox news is just an entertainment channel.


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## will_shred (Mar 8, 2015)

Ex-Fox host tells CNN: Olbermann was right all along &#8212; Fox is a &#8216;cult&#8217; and O&#8217;Reilly is a liar


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## TRENCHLORD (Mar 8, 2015)

I think the cult that isn't FNC is showing itself right here on this very thread.


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## pushpull7 (Mar 8, 2015)

I agree with that. FACT: Almost nobody respectable gives a rats ass about orly, and it's really quite lame that the internet plays the "fox news" card everytime.

@Olbermann: Olbermann? What, like he's any different?  (cuz I totally trust that guy)


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## Danukenator (Mar 9, 2015)

pushpull7 said:


> I agree with that. FACT: Almost nobody respectable gives a rats ass about orly, and it's really quite lame that the internet plays the "fox news" card everytime.



The internet gives Fox a hard time because they frequently lie, edit video and contort facts to fit a conservative agenda. This is simply an objective truth as they have been caught doing so many, many times.

I need to find my clip of Baghdad being bombed on night vision camera with an American flag graphic waving in the background. 

I don't care if CBS or NBC also does it. Another news station being dishonest doesn't just make it fair game for everyone.


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## pushpull7 (Mar 9, 2015)

Hey, it's not like I'm a fan


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## Danukenator (Mar 9, 2015)

pushpull7 said:


> Hey, it's not like I'm a fan



I've noticed that a common response to "Fox news blows because they objectively aren't honest" is "some other, irrelevant news station is dishonest."

I just wanted to point out that Fox news being objectively dishonest is unrelated to other news networks.


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## bostjan (Mar 10, 2015)

I've seen the argument used a lot lately.

A: X is wrong.
B: X is right.
A: Here is evidence that X is wrong.
B: Well, Y is also wrong, so therefore X is right.
A: [insert Jackie Chan frustrated meme]

It's a classic red herring.

So, concerning O'Reilly, either:
a. He lied.
b. He told the truth.
c. He unintentionally gave misinformation.
Since he contradicted himself, we can eliminate b. Since the happenings in question are his own experiences, I would place c as highly unlikely, and at best, assuming c leads to serious questions about his ability to store and process information.

Then, the next question is should we suggest he be removed from his position at Fox? Well, that's up to Fox. His viewers are very loyal. 

Personally, I would be very cautious about any news I get from Fox. I always search for an independent source for the same story. >90% of the time, I find it, but <10%, >1% of the time, I find out that the story is not the same according to other sourced. When this happens, I question the reliability of Fox. Why not take Fox's account and disregard the other? Well, logically, I should question the reliability of both, not one or the other. Honestly, I don't take any single news source as fact. But when Fox reports something contrary to another source, I am not going to assume Fox is correct.

As far as Bill O'Reilly, I've never taken him seriously. He is loud and argumentative, and I just don't see this as constructive debate nor as journalism. There are "celebrities" on both sides of the political aisle who behave in this sort of fashion.

Will this be the end of his career? Hmm, it might be the beginning of the end. Fact is, there are hundreds of aspiring commentators who would love to take his place who have not yet been the focus of a scandal, and people, no matter how loyal, are fickle in the end toward pretty much anything to do with TV/radio personalities.


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## Drew (Mar 11, 2015)

pushpull7 said:


> I agree with that. FACT: Almost nobody respectable gives a rats ass about orly, and it's really quite lame that the internet plays the "fox news" card everytime.
> 
> @Olbermann: Olbermann? What, like he's any different?  (cuz I totally trust that guy)



Olbermann is an idiot. I really wanted to not dislike him because, at least at the very beginning, I tended to agree with him politically and it was nice to have a loud-mouthed, obnoxious, over-the-top, opinionated commentator on our side for once... But, very quickly, it became apparent to me that I hated bombast and distortion with little in the way of substance no matter WHICH party was delivering it. Rather than Olbermann as an answer to Limbaugh, I'd rather just toss both of them into the same nuclear sub and let them duke it out a couple miles below sea level, safe from the possibility of having anyone else overhear them, and go on with a more reasoned, even-mannered debate.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Mar 11, 2015)

Drew said:


> Olbermann is an idiot. I really wanted to not dislike him because, at least at the very beginning, I tended to agree with him politically and it was nice to have a loud-mouthed, obnoxious, over-the-top, opinionated commentator on our side for once... But, very quickly, it became apparent to me that I hated bombast and distortion with little in the way of substance no matter WHICH party was delivering it. Rather than Olbermann as an answer to Limbaugh, I'd rather just toss both of them into the same nuclear sub and let them duke it out a couple miles below sea level, safe from the possibility of having anyone else overhear them, and go on with a more reasoned, even-mannered debate.



I prefer listening to Mush Rimjob over Olbermann. At least Rimjob cuts a good WWE style promo in the arena of American politics, which is as fake as WWE so I think it seems fitting. Olbermann on the other hand is boring.


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## will_shred (Mar 11, 2015)

pushpull7 said:


> I agree with that. FACT: Almost nobody respectable gives a rats ass about orly, and it's really quite lame that the internet plays the "fox news" card everytime.
> 
> @Olbermann: Olbermann? What, like he's any different?  (cuz I totally trust that guy)



I'm not saying that I like Olbermann any better, but he did just so happen to have an archive of fox news contradictions and lies  which was useful. I'd be interested to see the flip side for MSNBC though


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## Explorer (Mar 11, 2015)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> I prefer listening to Mush Rimjob over Olbermann. At least Rimjob cuts a good WWE style promo in the arena of American politics, which is as fake as WWE so I think it seems fitting. Olbermann on the other hand is boring.



Did I just hear you say that you prefer theatrics to actual truthfulness in an information source?

I just wondered, because WWE versus actual wrestling competition is a strange example of fixed narratives versus actual competition. It's apt, but I prefer real information instead of fiction, which I can get from a book, movie and other sources.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Mar 11, 2015)

Explorer said:


> Did I just hear you say that you prefer theatrics to actual truthfulness in an information source?
> 
> I just wondered, because WWE versus actual wrestling competition is a strange example of fixed narratives versus actual competition. It's apt, but I prefer real information instead of fiction, which I can get from a book, movie and other sources.



You certainly won't get much in terms of real facts from national TV news [MSNBC, FoxNews] or politicians [how much do they have to lie before people just stop believing their bullshit?]. At least if you look at it as entertainment -- much the same way that Hulk vs Andre was -- you're bound to be letdown a hell of a lot less when they inevitably disappoint you.


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## bostjan (Mar 12, 2015)

Just a thought: what if news outlets actually just reported what they observed in the field? I bet no one would watch it.

Reporter: "We're here at blah blah where there is a body laying in the road."
Anchor: "What happened?"
Reporter: "Well, Bill, I wasn't here when it happened."
Anchor: "Well, what are people saying?"
Reporter: "I won't go into that, because it'd be heresay."
Anchor: "Do you have any details?"
Reporter: "Yes, the body, which we only caught a glimpse of, is surrounded by police officers and caution tape."
Anchor: "&#8230;okay, thanks Mark, let's move on to something more interesting - golf."


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## Spaced Out Ace (Mar 12, 2015)

bostjan said:


> Just a thought: what if news outlets actually just reported what they observed in the field? I bet no one would watch it.
> 
> Reporter: "We're here at blah blah where there is a body laying in the road."
> Anchor: "What happened?"
> ...



Golf is a very elitist, pointless sport. Similar to tennis, but even more boring.


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## asher (Mar 12, 2015)

Eh. It's incredibly silly, but every sport can be reduced to absurd pointlessness very quickly 

I wish I could trade all my golf hours into fencing though.


_Could the crowd be any quieter please, I'd like to hear the grass grow_


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## Danukenator (Mar 14, 2015)

bostjan said:


> Just a thought: what if news outlets actually just reported what they observed in the field? I bet no one would watch it.



Partially the reason I go to BBC for reporting on US politics. They often report much more objectively and remove the spin.


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## pushpull7 (Mar 14, 2015)

Again, it's all just money and entertainment to most people. Now, go to twitter and see what's trending


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## Humbuck (Mar 15, 2015)

Danukenator said:


> Partially the reason I go to BBC for reporting on US politics. They often report much more objectively and remove the spin.



I hear you. So does Al Jazeera fwiw.


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## pushpull7 (Mar 15, 2015)

When I think of Al Jazeera, I always think of al gore, the internet, and money.


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## eggzoomin (Mar 17, 2015)

Interesting (as an English person) to hear the Beeb getting referenced as a less biased source - they've been catching heat on this side of the pond from more left wing commentators for the last few years because of a fairly steady drift to the right in tone.

There are various figures from within the BBC who have stated that their news policy these days is to mirror whatever stories the more right wing press are leading with - for example, when the Guardian have led with things like the Edward Snowden revelations, the Beeb were far more interested in what the Telegraph and the Daily Heil (Mail) were running. 

This policy has come from a constant stream of pressure towards the Beeb from the right wing press and increasingly right wing governments. They used to be pretty much centrists, but those critics have consistently condemned them as "loony lefties" and their editorial policy has definitely shifted as a result.

OTOH, I guess almost anything is more left wing than FOX!


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## bostjan (Mar 17, 2015)

^ That's just it, though, everything except the most extreme right wing in England is still considered left of center in the States.


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## Danukenator (Mar 17, 2015)

It's funny (and I know this is a bit OT) but I'm currently studying in England and have noticed the BBC's bias in some of their coverage of European stuff. 

I guess they know their American readership is small and 99% of Americans don't care about the BBC so they may report on US affairs more honestly. A personal theory.


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## bostjan (Mar 17, 2015)

Hmm, maybe it is about 1%, but it's a 1% that's more like me than people in the other 99%.


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## pushpull7 (Mar 17, 2015)

I don't watch any of it (though I've seen all of it of course)

Seems to me people will gravitate wherever their roots are.


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## SHRINEOFTHESERPENT (Mar 18, 2015)

Explorer said:


> Bill O'Reilly Has His Own Brian Williams Problem | Mother Jones
> 
> Short version: Bill O'Reilly claimed to be in the actual Faulkland Islands, in the war zone, during that war, but no CBS or even US reporters made it to the war zone.
> 
> ...



Bill Oreilly is a POS. Hes a horrible human being. A gun grabber and a liberal scumbag.. Just sayin


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## asher (Mar 18, 2015)




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## ke7mix (Mar 23, 2015)

SHRINEOFTHESERPENT said:


> Bill Oreilly is a POS. Hes a horrible human being. A gun grabber and a *Conservative* scumbag.. Just sayin




fixed


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## TRENCHLORD (Mar 23, 2015)

You guys even wonder why the major news networks aren't covering this?

If this .... were true it would be all over the tube just like it was with Brian Williams.

The fact is it's another liberal scumbag lie!!!!
Mrs. Corn is pulling this stuff from her cornhole.


So here is the truth on the matter, even though you lefties don't like it.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...nces-mother-jones-story-on-his-war-reporting/


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## asher (Mar 23, 2015)

But if it's the "liberal" MSM as we constantly hear, why wouldn't they be trying to press the kitten out of this?


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