# 8 String Action



## RockerAlex (Aug 13, 2011)

Sup guys, recently got myself a Schecter Hellraiser C-8 and everything is perfect on it execpt the action ... it's pretty ridiculously high on all strings from the 12 fret upwards but when I lower to it something more reasonable practically every fret on the 8th string buzzes ...

How do you guys set up your 8s with low action? Is it possible? Please enlighten me. 

Also, I'm using a 7 string Daddario set of 10s and a 0.72 in standard tuning. (F# B E A D G B E)


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## Daken1134 (Aug 13, 2011)

one thing is have you gotten it setup? you could have some serious neck issues, that and thick strings help me cause the tension is so much greats they dont vibrate as radically


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## RockerAlex (Aug 13, 2011)

I had it looked at and apparently there was nothing wrong with it, it just came back with ridiculously high action which I don't like.

That's why I'm using 10s ... anything bigger than a 0.72 wouldn't fit through the tuner I don't think ...


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## orakle (Aug 13, 2011)

hmmm, on your saddle, is the string bent correctly ?

i had this problem with 0.80 strings that werent completely sitting on the saddle

hope it helps you a bit


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## RockerAlex (Aug 13, 2011)

orakle said:


> hmmm, on your saddle, is the string bent correctly ?
> 
> i had this problem with 0.80 strings that werent completely sitting on the saddle
> 
> hope it helps you a bit



Everything looks to be sitting fine on the saddles bro ... thanks for the reply though.


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## Daken1134 (Aug 13, 2011)

for a thicker string you have to either A: unwind the string a little bit or B: drill out your tuning machine. i drilled the low F# tuning machine on my RG2228 to fit an 80


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## RockerAlex (Aug 13, 2011)

Daken1134 said:


> for a thicker string you have to either A: unwind the string a little bit or B: drill out your tuning machine. i drilled the low F# tuning machine on my RG2228 to fit an 80



So you're saying that 0.72 possibly isn't enough tension? ... Crazy, better get the drill out.

What strings are you using?


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## Explorer (Aug 13, 2011)

I'm curious about the relief (how much neck curvature you have) and your action (distance from string to fret) at the 12th fret.

When I'm doing a quick check of relief, I fret at the 1st fret (left hand) and 13th fret (right pinky) and tap on the 5th fret. I can hear and feel how far down the string has to go to make a tapping sound. I try for a minimal relief.

Assuming that works and I get a slight click, I'll then look at the 12th fret and see how high it is. If I can slide two quarterss between the string and the fret, that's too high. *laugh*

Basically, you want a gentle curve so that each fret doesn't interfere with frets closer to the peghead. It's like stadium seating at a movie theatre, with a progressive curve so that no one has their view blocked. 

If it's really buzzing, I'd also be wondering if there is uneven fret work. I suggest doing a Google search to find out how to use a credit card/bank ATM card to find fret height problems. It's not that I don't trust your instrument tech, it's just that I don't know who did your set-up, and it's best to be thorough.


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## Hollowway (Aug 13, 2011)

Yeah, I agree with Explorer. Since being a tech requires only that you say "I'm a tech" there's a pretty good chance he hasn't done the best setup possible. I learned to do all my own setups for that exact reason. But, here's my 

1) Is it buzzing acoustically or through the amp? All my 8th strings buzz acoustically, but you can't hear it through the amp, so that's a fine trade off for me.
2) Your guitar is 26.5", right? You might move up to a .074 or higher for tension.
3) As Explorer said, make sure you have good neck relief. And by that I mean not too much or too little. It's a little counterintuitive, but too much neck relief will cause more buzzing. Increasing the relief increases the action. And then you try to lower the action at the bridge, which now means the string is closer to the higher frets than the frets in the middle of the neck. Ideally the string and FB should diverge continually from the nut to the bridge.


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## RockerAlex (Aug 13, 2011)

Thanks for the replies guys.

As for exact measurements, I don't really know ... I'd have to dig out some tools. All I know is that the action was far too high off the 12th fret, I could get my pointer finger in there. There is a small curve in the neck which I assume is the right set up.

1. Yes it does buzz through the amp sometimes on the 8th string only.
2. I might trying moving up a gauge ... somebody suggested all the way up to 0.80 ...
3. Answered up there. ^


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## Explorer (Aug 13, 2011)

RockerAlex said:


> As for exact measurements, I don't really know ... I'd have to dig out some tools. All I know is that the action was far too high off the 12th fret, I could get my pointer finger in there.



The fuck?!

The guy who did your set-up sucks donkey balls.

You should look on Google for a complete guide to setting up your electric guitar. You'll be setting it up in the following order:



 New strings (optional, but if your current strings are older, you might not get as close as possible on the intonation step)
 Neck relief (truss rod)
 Action (bridge saddle height and nut)
 Intonation
Some of those can be glossed over unless you notice a problem. The nut, for example, is generally good. 

All of these changes are non-destructive and reversible on an electric except for nut work. 

If you get through one of those tutorials and you can't possibly lower the action lower than it already is, I'm hoping you bought this new and can return it. *laugh*

The other option, if it's a bolt-on neck, is to shim the neck (time to look up another tutorial!) to raise the fretboard relative to the string plain. 

Good luck!


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## RockerAlex (Aug 13, 2011)

I've tried everything you've mentioned except shimming but my neck isn't bolt on ... don't you mean shimming the nut so that the strings are further away from the frets? It's fret buzz I'm trying to eliminate here, I can hear it through the amp and it sounds terrible. :/

Either that or moving the 8th string up a gauge so it's tighter.

EDIT: Forgot to mention ... there is slight relief on the neck and the intonation is perfect ... it's the action that's not quite perfect as it buzzes quite a lot at a height I feel isn't that low. Either that or play with a lighter hand, strings don't seem to buzz at all if I purposely play lightly.


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## WarriorOfMetal (Aug 13, 2011)

RockerAlex said:


> So you're saying that 0.72 possibly isn't enough tension? ... Crazy, better get the drill out.



Not even close. For that matter, not even the .074 that they ship with is enough tension. .080 ftw with a .010 set.


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## Explorer (Aug 13, 2011)

RockerAlex said:


> I've tried everything you've mentioned except shimming but my neck isn't bolt on ... *don't you mean shimming the nut so that the strings are further away from the frets?* It's fret buzz I'm trying to eliminate here, I can hear it through the amp and it sounds terrible. :/
> 
> Either that or moving the 8th string up a gauge so it's tighter.



Nope, I don't mean shimming the nut *at all. *

The reason for tackling those things in that order is:

The slight amount of relief in the neck makes sure all the frets, already being level, will miss the higher frets when fretted due to the curve.

Once the relief is correct, one can bring down the action a huge amount, depending on how hard one plucks the strings. One of my 12-strings has less than 1/32" action at the high E, and it doesn't buzz at all. 

On an electric, where one isn't driving the strings acoustically, one can get even lower.

Raising/shimming the nut makes means one will miss all the frets when the strings are open/unfretted. As soon as you fret any string, any high frets, back bow or inadequate relief, and any cause you didn't catch before will rattle again. 

Here's a little page about finding high/low frets. I use the edge of a credit card/bank card held upright after completely untensioning the strings, rather than the tool described, but the same principle/tenchnique of attempting to rock/roll the straightedge on each fret to find the offender, following each of the string paths, works great. Often it's just a case of a high fret which isn't pressed flat, but sometimes it's a fret which was excessively flattened.

FRETS.COM

I didn't go the route of looking at tensions, given how high the action was described as being, but let me take a quick moment...

.010 E4 17.50
.013 B3 16.60
.017 G3 17.88
.026 D3 19.86
.036 A2 21.08
.046 E2 18.89
.059 B1 17.79
.072 F#11 14.64

You'd have to go to .080 to equal that 17.79 of your B1.

Assuming you'd consider the next smaller D'Addario 7-string set, here's what you'd be looking at.

.010 E4 14.17
.011 B3 11.88
.016 G3 15.84
.024 D3 17.02
.032 A2 17.02
.042 E2 15.94
.054 B1 14.92
.074 F#1 14.92

That's with just equalling the low B1. 

----

Anyway, I'm betting you have at least one high fret. Let the guitar sit with no tension for an hour or two, catch a movie, and then use the technique described on that page. Let us know what you find.


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## RockerAlex (Aug 14, 2011)

I see I see, thanks for the in depth replies guys.

Which string set do you recommend I go for next time I restring? The "lighter" 7 set of Daddario or the "regular" one I'm using now with a 0.80? It's this 8 string buzz that's doing my head in, I really want to get rid of it asap.


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## Explorer (Aug 14, 2011)

So... if it's the buzz which is bothering you, don't worry about the string set yet. Find the buzz first.

Did you find one or more high frets when you did the diagnostic procedure? I'm suspecting you did.


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## Roon4me (Aug 14, 2011)

This is crap! this guitar is new! Should have gotten an Ibby. No trust rod adjusting with fix this? concave? My Ibby can hold my pick underneath the strings anywhere! I feel bad dude.


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## Necris (Aug 14, 2011)

Roon4me said:


> This is crap! this guitar is new! Should have gotten an Ibby. No trust rod adjusting with fix this? concave? My Ibby can hold my pick underneath the strings anywhere! I feel bad dude.



Considering how many people have had Schecter 8 strings and had no issues set them up with low action I doubt brand is the source of his problem.  Ibanez RGA8s have a known problem where the screw holding down the bridge tears out of the wood.

There are a multitude of things that could be causing the OP's problem. I'd give the guitar a new set up and then check for high frets.


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## RockerAlex (Aug 14, 2011)

The problem is with the set up, not the brand. There is absolutely no way I'd buy a RGA8 over a Hellraiser C-8 ... "Ibanez" active pickups ... wtf? EMG all the way.

As for the high frets, I haven't actually checked yet because I ordered a 0.80 in to put on with a new set of 10s and haven't taken these old strings off yet. I'll get back to you.

EDIT: Here's my (very fuzzy) action at the 12th fret, it only gets worse from then on going up diagonally, almost. How does this compare to your 8 string actions?

I can't get a good pic of the neck but it has a slight curve which I heard was good.


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## Explorer (Aug 14, 2011)

You don't need to take the strings off, you just need to take off the tension for a while, and then ch...

*sigh* Forget it. You've got a plan, and I'm sure it will work out.


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## RockerAlex (Aug 14, 2011)

Explorer said:


> You don't need to take the strings off, you just need to take off the tension for a while, and then ch...
> 
> *sigh* Forget it. You've got a plan, and I'm sure it will work out.



Thing is, I don't have a plan :/ ... everything I've tried has just made the buzz worse instead of better, including truss rod adjustments and saddle height adjustments. My guitar stays in tune and it's in perfect intonation, it just fucking buzzes everywhere on the 8th string ...

Oh, I didn't realize you didn't have to have the strings completely off ... I'll have to have a look for uneven frets now, if it's not that then I've no clue how to go about fixing this myself.


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## RockerAlex (Aug 14, 2011)

Right, so the frets seem completely straight ... all the way along the neck. Great.

Also, I just don't understand why this keeps happening ... when I loosen all the strings and try and bring them gradually back to standard tuning the High E always snaps ... always, every time when I get it to about D it'll snap at the machine head, why is that?


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## mrfrisky330 (Feb 14, 2014)

Could be a badly cut nut,if the string is sticking in the nut it will create an uneven tension - snap!

Could also have a sharp edge, as could the saddle...
I was very tempted by the C-8FR but after your issues not sure now..


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## sevenstringj (Feb 15, 2014)

mrfrisky330 said:


> Could be a badly cut nut,if the string is sticking in the nut it will create an uneven tension - snap!
> 
> Could also have a sharp edge, as could the saddle...
> I was very tempted by the C-8FR but after your issues not sure now..



1) Check the date. 

2) I have a C-8 FR and it rules. Just don't over-tighten the clamp on the 8th string and you'll be good.


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## Batkirby3 (Apr 1, 2021)

Hey peeps. I bought an Ibanez RG8 from a Guitar Center a few months ago. I got it at a discounted rate because it has minor aesthetic damage. I feel like the action is off but I'm not entirely sure so I've been looking for help. Based off this picture I took, can anyone tell me if this is normal or are the strings too high?


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## Hollowway (Apr 1, 2021)

That looks VERY high. Is the nut high? Is the neck relief deep?


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## Batkirby3 (Apr 1, 2021)

I haven't really noticed if it is or not but I've included a few more pics. The neck relief does seem a little deep to me but I wasn't 100% sure. I've been trying to find the correct allen wrench to adjust it with but have had no luck.


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## Hollowway (Apr 1, 2021)

If you could, fret the 8th string at the 2nd fret, and get a photo of how far the string is above the 1st fret. That will tell us if the nut is too high. Then, fret the 8th string at the first AND 15th frets, and tell us how much of a gap is above the 6th (ish) fret. (Or get a photo, but you’re probably going to run out of hands for this one, lol.)
Then we’ll know if the nut is high or if there’s too much relief. If those are fine, you can start dropping the bridge saddle down until you get fret buzz through the amp.


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## odibrom (Apr 1, 2021)

Hollowway said:


> If you could, fret the 8th string at the 2nd fret, and get a photo of how far the string is above the 1st fret. That will tell us if the nut is too high. Then, fret the 8th string at the first AND 15th frets, and tell us how much of a gap is above the 6th (ish) fret. (Or get a photo, but you’re probably going to run out of hands for this one, lol.)
> Then we’ll know if the nut is high or if there’s too much relief. If those are fine, you can start dropping the bridge saddle down until you get fret buzz through the amp.



All this, but to check the nut, each string must be pressed at the *3rd fret* (space), so the string is pressed against the actual 2nd and 3rd frets, over-passing the first fret. That's how one knows how deep or shallows are the string slots at the nut. The distance from the string's bottom to the fret's top should be infinitesimal, a sheet of paper should barely pass between, but not zero, there should not be any contact between the string and the first fret, or you'll get fret buz with open strings. Pressing the string at the 2nd fret space would make the string be pressed against the actual 1st fret...

The neck relief as suggested here should be a credit card thickness (the distance to measure), more or less but with minimal margins, 3 credit cards is way too much. Only then one messes with the bridge saddles higth. If you find fret buzz with still high action, there may be some fret leveling needed, or maybe some frets are popping out or worn off unevenly across the board.


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## Batkirby3 (Apr 1, 2021)

Here you go. Had to enlist the wife for some help on that second pic.


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## Chris Bowsman (Apr 1, 2021)

You need to fret the 3rd fret and see how high the string is above the 1st fret. 

If the second photo is showing relief, that looks like a lot. If the frets are in good condition and dressed properly, it should be more like the thickness of your high E string (give or take) between the string and the 8th fret.


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## Hollowway (Apr 1, 2021)

Yeah, I explained that poorly. You want to fret it so the string hits the 2nd fret - but in the direction of the nut. So to be clear - fret the 3rd fret.  (But do it just past the 2nd fret to make sure the string touches the 2nd fret.)

And your neck does appear to have too much relief if you want low action.


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## geeman8 (Apr 2, 2021)

Yeah, I agree with Hollowway. Too much relief...I always adjust the truss rod to make the strings have just the smallest bit of space between them and the fret when pressing on the 1st and 15th fret. A capo is a great tool for the job as it frees up a hand.


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## Chris Bowsman (Apr 2, 2021)

The hillbilly way of checking works pretty well. Fret the first fret with your left hand, hold down the 15th with your right elbow/forearm, and tap the string with your right index finger. Should have a *little* bounce to it, but not much.


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## Batkirby3 (Apr 2, 2021)

Thank you all for the help. I believe you have confirmed my own suspicions. Anyone know what size Allen wrench I need to adjust the truss rod? Also, is there a particular kind of wrench I should seek?


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## Gtan7 (Apr 3, 2021)

That trussrod may have some interestingness about it https://www.sevenstring.org/threads/rg8-truss-rods.288892/

Whatever size it is, it's best to get a T handle wrench to make sure that the wrench is on axis while you're torquing it (i.e. not twisting off axis in any direction)


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## Hollowway (Apr 3, 2021)

It’s hard to know what size hex wrenches to use for truss rods (or bridge saddles, or any of the myriad hex screws on guitars) without actually having a crapload of them and just doing trial and error. It’s 100% true that a T handle wrench is the best way of going about it (or a screwdriver design) because then you don’t have to deal with the strings getting in the way.


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## Batkirby3 (Apr 3, 2021)

Where do I find the T handle wrenches? I haven't see any in Lowes or Home Depot.


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## Gtan7 (Apr 3, 2021)

Lowe's used to sell some kind of sleeve that went over the short end of L wrench to make it effectively a T, but probably have to order: (Probably not right size) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000GTORZE/?tag=sevenstringorg-20

You'll probably be ok using the long end of a L shaped key on the nut, using the short end is how they get stripped.


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## Hollowway (Apr 3, 2021)

You can also get a screwdriver with a tip that accepts multiple fittings. I wouldn’t do it in a deep truss rod, though, because sometimes they come off the screwdriver, and then it’s a bear to get them out of the channel.


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