# Bands that never lived up the hype or their potential



## Louis Cypher (Jul 27, 2022)

Just a shits and giggles thread so we can all whinge and complain about shit, it's what Internet forums were created for after all

So it's just bands or artists that have been super over hyped or just crashed and burned after an amazing release - either in your opinion or widely recognised. Even long term bands that changed members or super groups that was gonna be amazing and then were disappointing. Personally being disappointed is worse than it being a pile of horseshit.

My starter for 10 would be Whitesnake's Slip of the Tongue album, it's a good album, Vai at his peak etc... I do enjoy it got really good songs, Vai is fucking awsome.... but compared to 1987?? Its disappointing. Blue Murders debut is 1987s real follow up

Also, Guns and Roses. Not entirely their fault the media hype was ridiculous once they went supernova and how do you follow up one of the best albums of all time, but for me the direction they went with the Use Your Illusion albums was a big let down and then wtf happened after.....


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## Lada The Great (Jul 27, 2022)

The Faceless has so much missed potential. Could (and was) have been great tech death band but now the band is really passive, seems to reactivate for every two years only to play catastrophe of an live show and to subside to passivity after that


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## NickS (Jul 27, 2022)

Periphery.


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## nickgray (Jul 27, 2022)

Dream Theater. I like Dream Theater, even a lot of the later stuff, but after 90s they just went full metal pretty much. Their old Images and Words sound - a blend of prog rock and metal is beyond dead now.

Periphery. They have seriously amazing one-offs, and a whole bunch of filler. One of those bands. I really wish they'd focus on their strong side - longer, complex prog metal songs (or at least that's how I see it). Forget djent.

Kalmah. The first two albums are fucking amazing, the 3rd is still pretty good, then it all goes tits up. Atrocious production, simplified songs, a change in the overall vibe and sound. Sort of like CoB past Follow the Reaper, but even worse.

Devin Townsend. Dude can write amazing shit, but he's legit one of the most all over the place artists.

Megadeth. Rust in Peace is just downright improbable. Their earlier stuff is not even remotely as good (still pretty good though), and after that they did a Black Album (and much better too, I'd take Youthanasia and Countdown over Black Album any day, even Cryptic Writings).

Iron Maiden. Never recaptured Somewhere in Time and Seventh Son of a Seventh Son.

Blind Guardian. Went mostly tits up after Nightfall. Sad. So much potential, but consistently shitty production and misplaced songwriting priorities made them into a very one-off song kind of band.

Animals as Leaders. Probably a bit early to tell, but judging by the last two albums, Tosin is more interested in rhythmic shit, and the sound they had on Weightless and S/T is unlikely to ever return.

Cynic. Two albums, basically. Why? So much potential.


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## Tree (Jul 27, 2022)

Born of Osiris
Necrophagist
Veil of Maya
After the Burial
Trivium
Opeth
Closure in Moscow
Arsis
The Contortionist
The Human Abstract
Nevermore

Really, I feel this way about most bands/artists I like now that I think of it


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## Lorcan Ward (Jul 27, 2022)

The Haarp machine. First album is an incredible display of technical songwriting delivered with such a unique sound that no other band has, largely down to the ?middle eastern? instruments. Any of the songs since the debut don’t come remotely close and feel several steps back in songwriting quality. 

The Halo Effect had all the makings of a Swedish supergroup but for me it fell flat. Recycled riffs and melodies that other bands have done and messy songwriting. Odd considering Dark Tranquility are still kicking ass and Jesper’s project Cyhra was full of top tier In Flames style riffs and leads. Maybe the next album will deliver. 

Sonata Arctica. One of the best power metal bands that could deliver super fast upbeat anthems like The Cage or Wolf & Raven to slow emotive ballads like Tallulah and Replica. The first 4 albums were incredible but now they are a shell of their former selves. Slow dreary poetic style songs with the technicality toned way down and poorly mixed so any power or energy is sapped out. The even play older songs 10-15bpm slower live.


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## mastapimp (Jul 27, 2022)

As you stated, I think this could apply to just about any "super group." As a fan of GNR and STP, I remember when the first Velvet Revolver album came out, it kinda worked and started off strong with some decent singles, but I can't remember much during their Libertad era. Plus they were kinda doomed with Weiland at the helm and his drug issues. 

Radiohead after OK Computer is another one that comes to mind. Self-indulgent nonsense in the releases afterward.

When it was announced that Jeff Loomis was joining Arch Enemy, people were hoping to hear some of his influence and writing in the new material. That's still not the case and it's a shame. 

Lately, I'd say the newest RHCP record didn't live up to the hype. It was a huge deal bringing John back to the band and I was hearing gossip that the writing sessions were trying to bring back some of their Blood Sugar Sex Magic energy and sound. Sadly, this album is a dud.


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## Crungy (Jul 27, 2022)

Kamelot, after Roy left. I don't listen to a lot of music like that but around the time I got into them he left shortly after. On paper, I should like the new singer and the music they continue to write but it just doesn't do it for me. 

Paramore. They didn't crash, quite the opposite as they've been extremely successful. They crashed big time for me as a fan. The move they made to quirky alt-pop or whatever you'd call it on their last album just felt so disingenuous to me: it felt like pandering to the sad twitter/buzz feed crowd. I thoroughly enjoyed everything they did up until the last album, but I don't know if I'll ever get into After Laughter. 

Karnivool. First two albums kicked ass. Asymmetry just doesn't grab me at all and likely never will. 

Mureau. Never were huge but their album and follow up single/pre pro track are fucking great. Love that band, too bad they didn't continue. 

Silverchair. A band I grew up on and loved up until Young Modern. YM has some okay songs but it's a meh album to me. Also after listening to the podcast about him and how he is kind of makes me think he's an ass. Maybe there's a lot more to what he's divulged about his life but it seems odd how he shut out most of his past.


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## Sebski (Jul 27, 2022)

Less that these bands crashed and burned, but more that their potential was never realised because they ended things so early. 

Proceed had incredible potential. Talented band, creative songwriting with some of the best tunes in post hardcore. But they just disappeared off the radar. Gutted they never made it to an album.

Closure in Moscow was similar. Their first EP and album were quality but the last album was very different, albeit decent still, so now I'm patiently waiting to hear if anything else ever comes out and what direction they take.


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## Mboogie7 (Jul 27, 2022)

James Blunt. Yeah, that guy. I never dove into his catalog at all (who doesn’t love “You’re Beautiful” though?) but remember Elton John saying that he was going to be the next big thing.

Also gonna say Breaking Benjamin. Their first 2 records were amazing and the 3rd was pretty solid. After that though, they became commercial ass rock, which is a damn shame because Ben’s song writing from yesterday was truly inspiring.


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## rokket2005 (Jul 27, 2022)

I think it could feasibly be argued that any and every band hasn't lived up to their hype or potential. The Beatles were more popular than Jesus, then they got Yoko'd. What if, you know?


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## RadoncROCKs (Jul 27, 2022)

Trivium - Ascendancy is one of my favorite albums of all time and they never came close to recapturing the magic. They also rarely play older stuff live anymore. New album is decent, but it's like they never wanted to go back to that Ascendancy place anymore

Love the Paramore mention - once their original drummer left the music lost all its fun and drive, the sound was totally different

Both bands clearly very successful but I find myself only listening to earlier stuff from them

Ice Nine Kills - I don't like the direction they are going becoming a gimmick concept album band, they are pigeonholing themselves

Breaking Benjamin - they lost all writing creativity, last two albums are the same song over and over


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## MFB (Jul 27, 2022)

Crungy said:


> Paramore. They didn't crash, quite the opposite as they've been extremely successful. They crashed big time for me as a fan. The move they made to quirky alt-pop or whatever you'd call it on their last album just felt so disingenuous to me: it felt like pandering to the sad twitter/buzz feed crowd. I thoroughly enjoyed everything they did up until the last album, but I don't know if I'll ever get into After Laughter.



You didn't like _After Laughter_? It's possibly my 2nd favorite Paramore album, since the first is always the one you got into them with (so that goes to _RIOT!_) but I'd say the only "bad" album they have is their S/T; it's got some good tracks, but if I skip every other song, it's going to fall out of rotation pretty quickly.


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## rokket2005 (Jul 27, 2022)

I didn't know how successful After Laughter was, but I liked it too. Still probably S/t> BNE> Riot> AL> AWKIF for me though.


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## Randy (Jul 27, 2022)

I liked 'em but I always thought Glass Cloud fell a little short.

EDIT: Speaking of which, Sky Eats Airplane also never totally got there.


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## MFB (Jul 27, 2022)

rokket2005 said:


> I didn't know how successful After Laughter was, but I liked it too. Still probably S/t> BNE> Riot> AL> AWKIF for me though.



Damn, peaking with the debut huh? It's a rock solid one to come out with, no track feels wasted, I just always feel weird thinking there was nowhere to go from there.


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## bostjan (Jul 27, 2022)

Two answers:

1. Every band. What band ever lived up to their potential? The one that broke up or went downhill afterward? There's no place up from the top. Oh well, which leads me to ...

2. It's just music. Not everyone is going to love any particular album from a band. It's not like bands are out there curing cancer or solving famines. It's literally just two or more musicians fucking around on their instruments. Lots of threads lately taking cracks at bands, which, not that they don't deserve it, but it's all subjective.


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## jaxadam (Jul 27, 2022)

Sacred Reich


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## rokket2005 (Jul 27, 2022)

MFB said:


> Damn, peaking with the debut huh? It's a rock solid one to come out with, no track feels wasted, I just always feel weird thinking there was nowhere to go from there.


No, you're reading it backwards. Debut is my least favorite, S/t is my favorite.


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## Dr. Caligari (Jul 27, 2022)

Lorcan Ward said:


> The Halo Effect



It feels like it's kind of a "for fun" thing without a lot of pressure attached to it. In a way I feel a bit bad for them because they have a lot of expectations on them based on what they've done in the past. And maybe they just wanna chill out and play some music.

On the other hand they also get a lot of exposure/fans "for free" based on their past I guess.


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## MFB (Jul 27, 2022)

rokket2005 said:


> No, you're reading it backwards. Debut is my least favorite, S/t is my favorite.



I was HOPING I read it wrong and that's why I was like, "oh he's saying S/T is least THEN BNE, etc" but I guess not  I think you're the only person I've seen put S/T and BNE above RIOT! and/or AL.


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## Decapitated (Jul 27, 2022)

Extreme.


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## Giest (Jul 27, 2022)

Wretched, but not because they never lived up the hype exactly. They broke up, got back together, dropped some crazy shit, then nothing new for the last like seven years.


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## Perge (Jul 27, 2022)

Quick off the top of my head is The Red Shore. 2 of the best tech-deathcore albums ever IMO, would have loved to hear more with better production.


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## rokket2005 (Jul 27, 2022)

MFB said:


> I was HOPING I read it wrong and that's why I was like, "oh he's saying S/T is least THEN BNE, etc" but I guess not  I think you're the only person I've seen put S/T and BNE above RIOT! and/or AL.


S/t is largely a darker and moodier record them the ones before and I really like Ilan Rubins drumming on it. No shit, the chorus to Now and Luke Holland's cover ain't it fun made me buy a drum set and start playing drums. I also somehow naturally gravitate towards albums that Ken Andrews mixed. I loved this album for like 3 years before I found out he had worked on it.

For bands that aren't Paramore, a real heartbreaker for me personally is Unexpect. In a Flesh Aquarium was so weird and cool and scary while still having moments you could latch on to get stuck in your head. Fables kicked it up to 13 and is still top three album of that decade. Then radio silence for like 6-7 years until they announced they had broken up.

Nearly the same story applies to Fair to Midland.


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## nickgray (Jul 27, 2022)

Lorcan Ward said:


> Sonata Arctica



There were a bunch of other really cool albums back in late 90s / early 00s. Kamelot, Avantasia, Rhapsody. Helloween's The Dark Ride was damn good.

Though tbh, 90s to early 00s was the golden age of metal. Mid 2000 to mid 2010 was a decade of major decline, but I think since mid 2010s we're in a bit of a revival.


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## Crungy (Jul 27, 2022)

MFB said:


> You didn't like _After Laughter_? It's possibly my 2nd favorite Paramore album, since the first is always the one you got into them with (so that goes to _RIOT!_) but I'd say the only "bad" album they have is their S/T; it's got some good tracks, but if I skip every other song, it's going to fall out of rotation pretty quickly.


I gave it one shot listening to all the tracks and it felt forced, like they tried too hard to make such a drastic change. Also the overall alt-quirky vibe like they're in a Jason Schwartzman movie with all of their visuals/photography did nothing for me. 

I really liked their s/t, it had some of the older elements plus the newer kinds of pop things that really worked. I thought they'd continue on that kind of trajectory.


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## Crungy (Jul 27, 2022)

rokket2005 said:


> S/t is largely a darker and moodier record them the ones before and I really like Ilan Rubins drumming on it. No shit, the chorus to Now and Luke Holland's cover ain't it fun made me buy a drum set and start playing drums. I also somehow naturally gravitate towards albums that Ken Andrews mixed. I loved this album for like 3 years before I found out he had worked on it.
> 
> For bands that aren't Paramore, a real heartbreaker for me personally is Unexpect. In a Flesh Aquarium was so weird and cool and scary while still having moments you could latch on to get stuck in your head. Fables kicked it up to 13 and is still top three album of that decade. Then radio silence for like 6-7 years until they announced they had broken up.
> 
> Nearly the same story applies to Fair to Midland.


I was very excited to hear Ken was involved. Also the last track is such a great fucking song, like a lost Failure song.


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## works0fheart (Jul 27, 2022)

Surprised by the amount of people saying Trivium. While I agree they have some meh albums, What the Dead Men Say was really damned good, especially for being released so late in their career. Also, to those who only like Ascendancy I'm a bit surprised as well. Shogun was awesome.


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## STRHelvete (Jul 27, 2022)

Periphery
Iron Maiden 
Slipknot when they first came out
Pantera
Slayer


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## The Mirror (Jul 28, 2022)

nickgray said:


> Devin Townsend. Dude can write amazing shit, but he's legit one of the most all over the place artists.



And that is exactly why Devy is Devy.

At various points of his career he tried to streamline his writing. He even got co-writers on board once (the song was never released) and after ending the Devin Townsend Project he was on the brink of writing straight forward poppy songs to "finally make it".

It was Chad Kroeger of all people to tell him that such a move would be horrible and a betrayel of his entire career. Instead we got Empath, which is the most all over the place record he ever put out (and Kroeger singing backing vocals on the most SYL-like song of it).

Devin is a songwriter not made for anything else but what he does, which is why he is probably the perfect counter-example for the question at hand. If anyone lived up to their full potential as a songwriter it is Devin.

Granted I am one of the biggest Devy fanboys out there, but one could probably live with just his music alone. Country, Ambient, New-Age, Industrial, Thrash, Death, Prog, AOR, you name it. I mean, he did it all. How is that not living up to the hype?

But I absolutely give you Blind Guardian. They need to stay as far away from Charlie Bauerfeind as possible and get a producer/mixer on board who actually knows what to do with their music. They are one of the rare acts that sounded worse the better technology got and it is 100% Bauerfeind at fault who keeps remixing and remastering their stuff, while every new version sound worse than the last.

How is it possible that Nightwish got it down to mix tons of layers with choirs and full orchestras as early as 2004 while Blind Guardian isn't even able to mix just Hansi's vocals in a way that doesn't sound like a tin can?

Also someone needs to take Andre's wah pedals, throw them in the trash and give him a life-long ban from every wah producing company on the planet. Kirk Hammet ain't got shit on Olbrich when it comes to destroying every nice melody line with obnoxious wah on top of it.


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## The Mirror (Jul 28, 2022)

works0fheart said:


> Surprised by the amount of people saying Trivium. While I agree they have some meh albums, What the Dead Men Say was really damned good, especially for being released so late in their career. Also, to those who only like Ascendancy I'm a bit surprised as well. Shogun was awesome.


Also some of the best Ascendancy tracks are not on Ascendancy. The Defiant and Crisis of Revelation are pure 100% Ascendancy-era Trivium with better production and vocals that are miles ahead of Heafy in the mid 00s.

After the true rock bottom they hit around Vengeance Falls and Silence in the Snow it was a full return to form since Alex Bent joined them. WTDMS and Court of the Dragon are easily their best records since Shogun and probably on par with it.


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## Velokki (Jul 28, 2022)

Well yeah, The Faceless is the perfect example, they had a killer lineup and all the possibilities in the world. Mental health problems and drug addiction took all of that away.

Imagine what Keene himself could be today. His writing and lead playing are so good, and he's a handsome dude too. In the ideal world, I would see Faceless releasing a new album every 2-3 years with Keene being one of the main poster boys for Jackson with USA and Indo lineup of signature guitars. They could've done so much content around the band it's not even funny.

We all know what Periphery has achieved; I seriously think Faceless could've done that and more.

Instead we have only 1 record after Autotheism since 2012, and it's a decent album, but can't hold a candle to their finest. And the band is a total trainwreck.


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## FrznTek (Jul 28, 2022)

Crungy said:


> Karnivool. First two albums kicked ass. Asymmetry just doesn't grab me at all and likely never will.


They put out a new single late last year called "All It Takes" that has some real "Sound Awake" vibes, IMO. Worth checking out if you haven't heard it yet.


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## Crungy (Jul 28, 2022)

I did hear that one and yes it does have SA vibes! I liked it, maybe they'll release an album in the next 5 years?


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## FrznTek (Jul 28, 2022)

Crungy said:


> I did hear that one and yes it does have SA vibes! I liked it, maybe they'll release an album in the next 5 years?


We can only hope, lol.


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## Choop (Jul 28, 2022)

works0fheart said:


> Surprised by the amount of people saying Trivium. While I agree they have some meh albums, What the Dead Men Say was really damned good, especially for being released so late in their career. Also, to those who only like Ascendancy I'm a bit surprised as well. Shogun was awesome.



Same here, and I liked most of The Crusade quite a bit too..Shogun is awesome and is four albums in.


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## gunch (Jul 28, 2022)

Decapitated

Like okay remember summer slaughter 07 and 08? Everything fucking band there what we expected at that time and what we ended up with is depressing


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## Lorcan Ward (Jul 28, 2022)

Dr. Caligari said:


> It feels like it's kind of a "for fun" thing without a lot of pressure attached to it. In a way I feel a bit bad for them because they have a lot of expectations on them based on what they've done in the past. And maybe they just wanna chill out and play some music.
> 
> On the other hand they also get a lot of exposure/fans "for free" based on their past I guess.



True. By having such skilled musicians with a big back catalogue there were a lot of expectations. Jesper has always been a guy who follows his interests with side projects. 



nickgray said:


> There were a bunch of other really cool albums back in late 90s / early 00s. Kamelot, Avantasia, Rhapsody. Helloween's The Dark Ride was damn good.
> 
> Though tbh, 90s to early 00s was the golden age of metal. Mid 2000 to mid 2010 was a decade of major decline, but I think since mid 2010s we're in a bit of a revival.



Power Metal was at its peak then. By 2005 it had largely burnt out and the genre never bounced back even though bands like Sabaton, Alestorm, Nightwish etc are only getting bigger. The first 4-5 years of the 00s has so many incredible albums. It was an amazing time to grow up with all these bands dropping albums together.


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## Veldar (Jul 28, 2022)

I still think Chimp Spanner was the most memorable of all djent related instrumental groups. 

But I can't knock him for wanting a stable income with library music.


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## mmr007 (Jul 28, 2022)

Faith no more: i loved angel dust and releases after that and they remained critical darlings but still dropped off the face of the earth compared to the real thing hype
Sacred reich: already mentioned before and I second the motion
Black sabbath: no band has had more hype for having more misses than hits
Metal church: big splash followed by taking residence in the where are they now file
Missing persons: fronted by the OG lady gaga with 3 ex zappa musicians, they seemed poised to be the biggest band on the planet then….poof


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## tian (Jul 28, 2022)

Giest said:


> Wretched, but not because they never lived up the hype exactly. They broke up, got back together, dropped some crazy shit, then nothing new for the last like seven years.


Yup. Considering how much people have freaked out over Revocation over the years I always thought it was weird that Wretched seemed to fly under the radar while making just as good or better albums.



Veldar said:


> I still think Chimp Spanner was the most memorable of all djent related instrumental groups.
> 
> But I can't knock him for wanting a stable income with library music.


Related to this, I'd say Cloudkicker too. Released some great material, seemed to be done with heavy albums and then came back with Subsume which was arguably the strongest album and then... just sort of started trickling fine but not really noteworthy material.


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## Kyle Jordan (Jul 28, 2022)

Lorcan Ward said:


> Sonata Arctica. One of the best power metal bands that could deliver super fast upbeat anthems like The Cage or Wolf & Raven to slow emotive ballads like Tallulah and Replica. The first 4 albums were incredible but now they are a shell of their former selves. Slow dreary poetic style songs with the technicality toned way down and poorly mixed so any power or energy is sapped out. The even play older songs 10-15bpm slower live.



The first 3 SA albums are what got me in to Power Metal and I loved Reckoning Night. I really tried with Unia, but beyond a couple of tunes, I just was on opposite ends with it. Have never bothered to check out Grays and the rest of their stuff.


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## bostjan (Jul 28, 2022)

mmr007 said:


> Black sabbath: no band has had more hype for having more misses than hits


Preposterous! Black Sabbath, upon their debut, was supposed to suck, and had no hype behind them. Instead, they spawned the entire metal genre, released three of the best albums of the early 1970's, spun off a bunch of successful solo careers, etc.

That's pretty much the exact opposite of never living up to their hype.

It seems like the thread is not living up to its title. The title asks about bands that never lived up to their hype, but the content of the thread is bands that exceeded early expectations and then continued plugging away long after the magic faded. What are you guys going to mention next? AC/DC? Van Halen? The Beatles?!

I expected to see more supergroups listed here (there have been a few), but instead this quickly devolved into the hot and shitty takes thread volume II.


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## mmr007 (Jul 28, 2022)

bostjan said:


> Preposterous! Black Sabbath, upon their debut, was supposed to suck, and had no hype behind them. Instead, they spawned the entire metal genre, released three of the best albums of the early 1970's, spun off a bunch of successful solo careers, etc.
> 
> That's pretty much the exact opposite of never living up to their hype.
> 
> ...


I can see where and why you disagree but my take is that while there may not have been any initial expectations of the band there has been perpetual noise generated around them despite the fact they flamed out pretty quick


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## MFB (Jul 28, 2022)

Lorcan Ward said:


> Power Metal was at its peak then. By 2005 it had largely burnt out and the genre never bounced back even though bands like Sabaton, Alestorm, Nightwish etc are only getting bigger. The first 4-5 years of the 00s has so many incredible albums. It was an amazing time to grow up with all these bands dropping albums together.



Sabaton seem like they're bigger as a meme than they are as a band


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## bostjan (Jul 28, 2022)

mmr007 said:


> I can see where and why you disagree but my take is that while there may not have been any initial expectations of the band there has been perpetual noise generated around them despite the fact they flamed out pretty quick


Sure. But that's always going to happen when a band comes out of zero expectation and then blows up. They are either going to die, break up, or outlive their 5 minutes of spotlight time. I'm not a Sabbath fan, but I'd be crazy to deny that they had any historically significant albums.

Maybe you have higher expectations than I do for a band to "live up to" whatever standard, but I'd be curious as to what band, according to your perspective, succeeded beyond Black Sabbath's level.

I guess I was thinking that the best examples of "bands that never lived up the hype of their potential" would be bands that received massive attention before their debut album, then their debut sucked and they never course-corrected. I can't think of any metal examples, but something like American Idol winners, who sometimes get all the hype in the world from the show, then release their contractually obligated debut album two weeks after the show's finale and it sells like 56k copies and then everyone immediately forgets that they ever existed. I'm sure there are better examples, but I honestly probably forgot about them as well. Something like Spiritbox, who was hyped to saturation on XM radio and social media before their debut, except, IDK, in Spiritbox's case, they certainly managed a fair degree of success and, from what I've heard of them, they aren't nearly as bad as people wanted them to be (I, myself, would put them in the category of pretty good, but just "missing something").

Or maybe bands that become bigger as a meme than as a band, although that doesn't seem to work these days, since being a meme tends to make things legit big.


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## MetalheadMC (Jul 28, 2022)

My votes would be Unearth and Chimaira. While they both had their times, they always left me wanting more if the vocals were different.


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## Veldar (Jul 28, 2022)

Crungy said:


> I did hear that one and yes it does have SA vibes! I liked it, maybe they'll release an album in the next 5 years?



When I started uni they toured played my uni bar under a 'get out of the studio' banner, saying thr album would be done soon.

I have since finished my degree and am out of it by a year and a half


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## Crungy (Jul 28, 2022)

Sounds about right lol


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## Mathemagician (Jul 28, 2022)

The Mirror said:


> Also some of the best Ascendancy tracks are not on Ascendancy. The Defiant and Crisis of Revelation are pure 100% Ascendancy-era Trivium with better production and vocals that are miles ahead of Heafy in the mid 00s.
> 
> After the true rock bottom they hit around Vengeance Falls and Silence in the Snow it was a full return to form since Alex Bent joined them. WTDMS and Court of the Dragon are easily their best records since Shogun and probably on par with it.



Except for the new guitar tone. Holy Christ is it hollow/tin-ny.


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## MFB (Jul 28, 2022)

Yeah, Trivium has been on an upward trajectory since TSATS came out with Alex joining the band, but their tone has definitely gone hill from their old sound, so it's a give and take unfortunately.


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## Lorcan Ward (Jul 28, 2022)

Kyle Jordan said:


> The first 3 SA albums are what got me in to Power Metal and I loved Reckoning Night. I really tried with Unia, but beyond a couple of tunes, I just was on opposite ends with it. Have never bothered to check out Grays and the rest of their stuff.



I was on a sonata arctica binge last year and came across an interview where Tony said Unia should have been a side project since it was so different to previous albums. 



MFB said:


> Sabaton seem like they're bigger as a meme than they are as a band



They are very smart at marketing themselves. I wouldn’t be surprised if there is a Sabaton themed board game.


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## rokket2005 (Jul 28, 2022)

Sonata Arctica never should've fired Jani. Also they probably shouldn't have written songs about a "shit load of money"


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## AwakenTheSkies (Jul 28, 2022)

It Dies Today


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## wheresthefbomb (Jul 28, 2022)

Third Eye Blind

they were in that classic 90s band trap where they had one GREAT album worth of material and then were left with a record contract and scraps from the cutting room floor 

all the personal drama didn't help. Blue had potential and has a couple good tracks but was a total dud as a follow up to s/t and they never did anything good again because Cadogan was so clutch to their songwriting. Probably a huge part of the reason Blue had any merit at all was that he wrote a lot of material for it before being excommunicated. 

their s/t is still one of the best albums of the 90s though, and one of my top albums of all time.


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## MASS DEFECT (Jul 28, 2022)

Steel Dragon. Terrible movie, awesome soundtrack. The OST band should have formed a real touring band.


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## Crungy (Jul 28, 2022)

bostjan said:


> I expected to see more supergroups listed here (there have been a few), but instead this quickly devolved into the hot and shitty takes thread volume II.


Mine definitely fell into hot takes but I'm leaving there here dammit


----------



## CovertSovietBear (Jul 28, 2022)

Tree said:


> Born of Osiris
> Necrophagist
> Veil of Maya
> After the Burial
> ...


SumerianCore right? Or at least the majority of bands here. All that music got me through high school and university.


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## /wrists (Jul 28, 2022)

Tree said:


> Born of Osiris
> 
> 
> Really, I feel this way about most bands/artists I like now that I think of it


>kicks jason richardson out 
I think they've hit peak when they did at the discovery


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## RoRo56 (Jul 28, 2022)

> Lorcan Ward said:
> 
> 
> > The Haarp machine. First album is an incredible display of technical songwriting delivered with such a unique sound that no other band has, largely down to the ?middle eastern? instruments. Any of the songs since the debut don’t come remotely close and feel several steps back in songwriting quality.


If Al wasn't such a lunatic then I think HAARP could have been a really big success. He had some incredible riffs and songwriting. I must say that I actually quite liked a couple of the newer songs, Elder and the Nadir were sick but the 2 latest ones did nothing for me.


> tian said:
> 
> 
> > Related to this, I'd say Cloudkicker too. Released some great material, seemed to be done with heavy albums and then came back with Subsume which was arguably the strongest album and then... just sort of started trickling fine but not really noteworthy material.


I think Cloudkicker is cool cause it's very much just a side project after his day job. Unending is a ripper.


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## RoRo56 (Jul 28, 2022)

I always felt that Sylosis deserved to be much bigger than they got to, they just seemed to have terrible luck. They had that horrible RV crash in the US when they were meant to open for Trivium. They came back from hiatus with their last album which I really enjoyed but it was released right before the pandemic so they were kinda screwed.


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## Ross82 (Jul 28, 2022)

The fucking Beetles!


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## Lorcan Ward (Jul 28, 2022)

RoRo56 said:


> If Al wasn't such a lunatic then I think HAARP could have been a really big success. He had some incredible riffs and songwriting. I must say that I actually quite liked a couple of the newer songs, Elder and the Nadir were sick but the 2 latest ones did nothing for me.



For a first album by a musician new to the scene it was an incredible achievement. I don’t think I could name a band with a debut album as strong. The newer songs have many elements that are good but need more refinement to bring them to the debut’s quality. I’m sure he still has it in him if he could get the musicians together for long enough to write and record.


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## works0fheart (Jul 28, 2022)

Don't know how I didn't think of this, but Between the Buried and Me. It's all been downhill since Colors (I still liked TGM).


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## potatohead33 (Jul 28, 2022)

works0fheart said:


> Surprised by the amount of people saying Trivium. While I agree they have some meh albums, What the Dead Men Say was really damned good, especially for being released so late in their career. Also, to those who only like Ascendancy I'm a bit surprised as well. Shogun was awesome.



Personally my biggest complaint with Trivium is that even on their best albums they have so many songs that start out as absolute bangers and then just fall apart like 60-90 seconds in. Rain and Like Light to the Flies both come to mind immediately.


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## Dr. Caligari (Jul 28, 2022)

Lorcan Ward said:


> Power Metal was at its peak then. By 2005 it had largely burnt out and the genre never bounced back even though bands like Sabaton, Alestorm, Nightwish etc are only getting bigger. The first 4-5 years of the 00s has so many incredible albums. It was an amazing time to grow up with all these bands dropping albums together.



Power metal feels like it's a different genre now. I suppose dumbing down music is the key to success. Ah well.


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## Rosal76 (Jul 28, 2022)

Ripping corpse, a death/thrash metal band from New Jersey who released 1 album that did really well. They were pretty popular among the old school death metal bands; Cannibal corpse, Pestilence, Suffocation, etc, etc, etc. They recorded a demo for their second album but the band eventually broke up in 1993. A lot of fans wished, even to this day, that the band had completed their second album.


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## Sammy J (Jul 28, 2022)

I’ll say Slipknot. The path they went on post-Iowa, while commercially successful, was nowhere near the quality of the first two albums. Mudvayne being similar in that regard.


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## Thesius (Jul 28, 2022)

Coheed and Cambria. When I first heard Welcome Home I was like "this shit fucks so hard" so I went to the mall and grabbed a copy of each CD they had. What a waste of money that was.


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## Crash Dandicoot (Jul 28, 2022)

Protest the Hero. Two phenomenal albums and a steady decline ever since. Not overly terrible or anything, just consistently below their peak and waning.

Coheed & Cambria. Three fantastic and one pretty good album... and a steady decline ever since. Same as Protest, though the latest Coheed album has me scratching my head....

I say this as a massive fan of both bands.

EDIT: @Thesius Coheed mind-meld


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## Furtive Glance (Jul 28, 2022)

I really liked Intervals' album _A Voice Within_ with the vocalist, and then they went strictly instrumental. Still good, but I would love more tracks with vox. So I guess that's my contribution.


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## MFB (Jul 28, 2022)

For me, I'd say Strapping Young Lad got a lot of hype when in the early 00s and I never really got it. I don't mind the stuff I've heard, like "Love?" is a cool track and all, but if I never heard it again I wouldn't be like, "aw man, crazy that all SYL material got wiped from existence."

I'd also say the same thing for Death which might be heretical, but I sure as hell respect what they did for the genre and their legacy. The songs have cool parts, but the majority of them just seem to jump from riff to riff with little cohesion and I'm just kind of left scratching my head as to how the big picture came together.

Re: Coheed and Protest the Hero 

I'll say as a Coheed fan (they're top five of all-time for me), they for sure dip in the middle and have one flat out bad album, one that's just OK, and even this newest one is falling into the latter of being OK but not out-right _bad; _however, I will say that they've been putting out albums for legitimately 20 years now, so think of it like Metallica up through what, _St. Anger_ would be roughly the same time right? Those first five albums are intouchable releases back to back for modern alt/prog rock, then there was a real curveball with _Year of the Black Rainbow_ which was corrected when they made the _Afterman_ double-disc, a slightly less album followed that with _Colors Before the Sun_ (their only NON-concept related album) and now they're back on track.

Protest petered out for me sadly, but I'll spin all their stuff as long as I'm alive. It's not even that _Palimpset_ is bad, musically they're writing some of their best stuff, it's just that you never connect to the back catalogue as much as the ones that you got into them with.


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## Crash Dandicoot (Jul 28, 2022)

@MFB Agreed on Protest. First five from Coheed though? Unless you're counting Shabütie... Good Apollo Vol. 2 was the end of their top-tier era, personally. Black Rainbow is where things got weird, Afterman has a few notable tracks but as an entire package doesn't compare to the first four (or just Good Apollo I + II), IMO. The Color Before The Sun is an actual "fucking what" moment. Vaxis I is... an album. I can't really say anything specifically negative or positive about it.

I'm not certain what Claudio is up to with the latest release but I wouldn't call it 'back on track'. I appreciate an artist progressing and trying new things but for what made Coheed great _for me_ (that's a reaaal important distinction) seems to be a distant thought from their/his current direction and production. I hope they're successful, regardless. Claudio has been repping that E/2 Explorer forever (definitely influenced me into buying two of them. Great guitars, honestly) and deserves a sig more than most.


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## Bloody_Inferno (Jul 28, 2022)

Pulse Ultra was a band that could've been one of the greatest nu metal bands. Sadly they couldn't keep it together after one album.


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## MFB (Jul 29, 2022)

Crash Dandicoot said:


> @MFB Agreed on Protest. First five from Coheed though? Unless you're counting Shabütie... Good Apollo Vol. 2 was the end of their top-tier era, personally. Black Rainbow is where things got weird, Afterman has a few notable tracks but as an entire package doesn't compare to the first four (or just Good Apollo I + II), IMO. The Color Before The Sun is an actual "fucking what" moment. Vaxis I is... an album. I can't really say anything specifically negative or positive about it.
> 
> I'm not certain what Claudio is up to with the latest release but I wouldn't call it 'back on track'. I appreciate an artist progressing and trying new things but for what made Coheed great _for me_ (that's a reaaal important distinction) seems to be a distant thought from their/his current direction and production. I hope they're successful, regardless. Claudio has been repping that E/2 Explorer forever (definitely influenced me into buying two of them. Great guitars, honestly) and deserves a sig more than most.



I always misremember which came first for YOTBR or Afterman, so yeah, I guess it's just first four  GA2 definitely feels like an end of a saga, after it seems like there's just points where they drift off-course a bit.

_Afterman_ has a different vibe in that's it's more stripped down and accessible while still having distinct Coheed elements, and I'd say the same for _Vaxis I_, I didn't even listen to the album until the day I was going to see them live and was surprised how it felt compared to _Colors..._ before it. _Colors + YOTBR_ are the obvious two that any fan will agree on (and this comes from spending a week on a boat with them) as being oddballs. _Vaxis II_ has some stand out tracks, like the first handful flow really well, then it dips, and comes back with some of the other tracks, it's just not a great complete package sadly.

But again, 20 years of being a band, let him do what he wants and I'll tune in for the stuff I care about.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 29, 2022)

The problem with Welcome Home is that everyone who first heard Coheed through that expected this bombastic progressive metal band. Instead (at least at the time), they were more of a post-hardcore progressive rock band.


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## Crash Dandicoot (Jul 29, 2022)

@HeHasTheJazzHands I can't say I thought Coheed was prog metal when I first heard Welcome Home, which was my entry into the band as well. It's heavier than most of their stuff up to that point but I wouldn't distinctly say it mislead people's expectations of what their genre(s) are.


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## chinnybob (Jul 29, 2022)

Bullet for my Valentine. The Poison was an absolute banger from start to finish and every album after that got steadily worse until they descended into full radio metal. Same goes for Bring Me The Horizon; I never particularly liked them but could at least respect it in the beginning.

Both of those bands have been massively successful though so maybe we need to draw a distinction between not living up to potential musically versus success-wise. Tbh when a band gets as big as those I tend to think they must be doing something good even if I don't like it!

Musically speaking, there's a few that I remember thinking were amazing only to be disappointed by subsequent efforts:

- God Forbid
- Skyharbor
- The Joy Formidable
- The Naked and Famous

As opposed to bands who had loads of promise and fully delivered on it (see: Wolf Alice).


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## RadoncROCKs (Jul 29, 2022)

chinnybob said:


> Bullet for my Valentine. The Poison was an absolute banger from start to finish and every album after that got steadily worse until they descended into full radio metal. Same goes for Bring Me The Horizon; I never particularly liked them but could at least respect it in the beginning.
> 
> Both of those bands have been massively successful though so maybe we need to draw a distinction between not living up to potential musically versus success-wise. Tbh when a band gets as big as those I tend to think they must be doing something good even if I don't like it!



Agreed here - many of the bands discussed here have been extremely commercially successful. I'm sure many will take "not living up to potential" but still getting their music out to millions and living their dream.

Implied was we are discussing the quality of the music potential and most posts have gone down that route, especially considering Trivium, BB, Coheed, Bullet as you mentioned are being mentioned.


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## Dr. Caligari (Jul 29, 2022)

I think Bmth were good from Suicide Season til Sempiternal and the latest Ep was very good.


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## Lemonbaby (Jul 29, 2022)

The Beatles.


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## NoodleFace (Jul 29, 2022)

The only band to me that truly crashed and burned was The Faceless.

What an absolute 100% shit show on all fronts. Their songs they've recorded are pretty good, but goddamn are they a mess.

Not only have they crashed and burned, but they're still on fire even right now.


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## Riffer (Jul 29, 2022)

Damnocracy

For those that weren't aware. It was a supergroup created for a "reality" tv show. It was Ted Nugent, Scott Ian, Sabastian Bach, Jason Bonham, and Evan Seinfeld all living in a house, forming a band and writing songs. You would think with that many musicians with accomplished careers they would come up with great stuff. Absolutely not! So while the potential was high based on the individuals involved, it totally did not deliver. Fucking horrible.


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## gunch (Jul 29, 2022)

Re: Coheed my entire fanship hinges on how absolutely fucking phenomenal III is


----------



## CanserDYI (Jul 29, 2022)

Born of Osiris peaked at The New Reign y'all crazy.

And yes I know I didn't quote anything from 2 pages back.


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## ShredmasterD (Jul 29, 2022)

Winery Dogs


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## TheBlackBard (Jul 29, 2022)

I don't know why people are throwing Periphery in here. That they made more than half an album with their guitar tone and attention deficient weedly deedly tossed in a few too muted chugs, they did much better than should have been expected.


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## BornToLooze (Jul 29, 2022)

Lorcan Ward said:


> They are very smart at marketing themselves. I wouldn’t be surprised if there is a Sabaton themed board game.



There is...


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## Lan (Jul 29, 2022)

Danzig post Danzig II. It felt like the first two albums were going in such a strong direction. And then everything kind of went weird, and Danzig became more meme than man.


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## RevelGTR (Jul 30, 2022)

Randy said:


> I liked 'em but I always thought Glass Cloud fell a little short.


This, so much. The first record is rough around the edges but the combo of Josh Travis tunes with melodic choruses and clean sections was awesome. Instead of developing and perfecting that sound they released an EP that was just heavy stuff and then fell apart.


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## Louis Cypher (Jul 30, 2022)

Lan said:


> Danzig post Danzig II. It felt like the first two albums were going in such a strong direction. And then everything kind of went weird, and Danzig became more meme than man.


Funnily enough I actually prefer his post John Christ/Danzig IV stuff, the 2 industrial albums inparticular (5 & 6) and I love the Tommy Victor albums, Circle of Snakes is great. The 2 cover albums tho are def a WTF are you doing Glenn?!


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## Flappydoodle (Jul 31, 2022)

MFB said:


> Yeah, Trivium has been on an upward trajectory since TSATS came out with Alex joining the band, but their tone has definitely gone hill from their old sound, so it's a give and take unfortunately.


God yes. Weirdly, the more "into" gear Heafy gets, the worse the tone gets! Now it's boost (mids), fishman pickups (mids), 5150 (mids), V30 speaker (mids), SM57 (mids).

The Shogun tone was incredibly good. Thick while still articulate enough. The newest tones are now basically just djent tones which sound like there's a half-cocked wah pedal engaged.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 31, 2022)

Flappydoodle said:


> Now it's boost (mids), fishman pickups (mids), 5150 (mids), V30 speaker (mids), SM57 (mids).



I think the more interesting part is that if you replace the Fishman pickups with custom-made Dean passives, then you have his rig for Shogun. His rig like, almost never changed. But his tone still got significantly worse.


----------



## TheBolivianSniper (Jul 31, 2022)

Motionless in White makes me want a metal album from them. Slaughterhouse with Bryan Garris is such a great song and Chris is just FLEXING his vocal chops on it too much for it to be a one off metal track. 

Same thing with Black Veil Brides, only instead of having a great metal vocalist they have great metal guitarists that don't get to show off enough. Jake can shred like a beast and too often they have cool riffs that never go anywhere before it turns into octanecore. Also Andy has a good harsh voice too and doesn't use it. 

Warrant just needed to make the Uncle Tom's Cabin album. 

I really wish Skid Row went into more hard songs like Slave to the Grind and Monkey Business because out of all the hair bands they could get really heavy. Those two songs are disgusting when you see when they came out. 

I Prevail need to get the Periphery influences out of their system because Body Bag is such a good song. If they keep making heavier albums I'm sure they'll go off. The riffs are catchy, the song structure is really cool, the vocals are crazy and it doesn't fall into the breakdown trap of most modern metal. The rap break and breakdown fakeout is great. 

Periphery just doesn't seem like a super heavy band to me and I don't get why everyone loves them. I get that their members are really innovative people but as a band I don't get it? Northlane too, it's just not my thing when they have a reputation for being so heavy. 

I'm a massive melodeath fan so long as it's COB or In Flames. There's a few other songs here and there but I can't find another group that has so many consistently good albums that don't dip too much into folk or get too soft the whole time. I like Insomnium but they go too much into the acoustic spectrum without the whole caveman chug thing you can find in some In Flames or Entombed albums that I like a lot, or the songs get kinda low energy. 


As for bands that live up to the hype, VCTMS, Alpha Wolf, Get the Shot, and Angelmaker are all groups I don't see mentioned on here. All really original sounds with a ton of good albums.


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## Kwert (Jul 31, 2022)

As a black metal fan I’d say Twilight is a great example of a band that had a ton of hype and fell extremely flat.

Borknagar shit the bed IMO once they entered the Vintersorg era. The self titled, Olden Domain and Archaic Course were brilliant and then Empricism was just boring.


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## anomynous (Jul 31, 2022)

How has Corelia not been mentioned yet?

They’re the poster child for this thread


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 31, 2022)

Lan said:


> Danzig post Danzig II. It felt like the first two albums were going in such a strong direction. And then everything kind of went weird, and Danzig became more meme than man.



He lost John Christ.


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## BlueTrident (Jul 31, 2022)

For me it’s Hacktivist. There was a lot of hype around the band in 2013 and a lot of people were hoping that they would release their debut album soon in order to capitalise on their explosion onto the UK scene. Their set at Download Festival combined with multiple European festival appearances made many people at the time think that they were going to the British RATM. But the songs that came after were just generic djent riffs and lyrics that were literally just ‘fuck the system’ with no finesse and limited scope. 

On top of that, the debut album came out too late (2016) for them to make a bigger name for themselves as well as two of the original members leaving (one of the vocalists and the guitarist), they’ve kind of fallen by the wayside. Although they’ve released a new album and put out new music, it feels like they haven’t gone anywhere since the peak of the hype that surrounded the band.

Oh and King 810, remember in 2014 when Roadrunner were trying to get all of the metal publications to say that they were going to be the next big thing?


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## BlueTrident (Jul 31, 2022)

anomynous said:


> How has Corelia not been mentioned yet?
> 
> They’re the poster child for this thread


That whole Corelias Facebook page scandal was one of the most bonkers and funniest things to happen in the djent/prog metal scene


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 31, 2022)

BlueTrident said:


> For me it’s Hacktivist. There was a lot of hype around the band in 2013 and a lot of people were hoping that they would release their debut album soon in order to capitalise on their explosion onto the UK scene. Their set at Download Festival combined with multiple European festival appearances made many people at the time think that they were going to the British RATM. But the songs that came after were just generic djent riffs and lyrics that were literally just ‘fuck the system’ with no finesse and limited scope.
> 
> On top of that, the debut album came out too late (2016) for them to make a bigger name for themselves as well as two of the original members leaving (one of the vocalists and the guitarist), they’ve kind of fallen by the wayside. Although they’ve released a new album and put out new music, it feels like they haven’t gone anywhere since the peak of the hype that surrounded the band.
> 
> Oh and King 810, remember in 2014 when Roadrunner were trying to get all of the metal publications to say that they were going to be the next big thing?



Didn't one of the Hacktivist guys scam someone out of a laptop?
Also the King 810 guys definitely didn't live up to the hype. Shit was so manufactured and tryhard.


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## CJ7 (Jul 31, 2022)

After The Burial
Alterbeast
AAL
Conquering Dystopia - Only because they never did anything else
Fallujah
Haarp
Shadow of Intent - Everything after their first album is trash
Spawn of Possession - Incurso was one of the best Tech albums ever, and now they're gone
Obscura - Kind of. I mean, their last two albums suck
Scale the Summit - Totally trash after The Migration


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## MFB (Jul 31, 2022)

I'd say 99.999% of black metal bands never live up to their potential considering they all sacrifice production value for street cred in a race to the bottom that no one benefits from; and those who don't do that and become well known, walk a fine line between going full ridiculous cheese (ie: Cradle of Filth) or staying cool*.

* as relatively cool as black metal can be.


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## Giest (Jul 31, 2022)

Dieth.


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## protest (Aug 1, 2022)

Shadows Fall


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## wheresthefbomb (Aug 1, 2022)

yngwie


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## Opion (Aug 1, 2022)

BlueTrident said:


> That whole Corelias Facebook page scandal was one of the most bonkers and funniest things to happen in the djent/prog metal scene



THIS. Not only that, they literally got TROLLED to release the unmastered album (that had been just sitting on one of their computers for however fucking long)by a fake poster claiming they were an old member of the band and had a copy of the album and were going to release it, prompting a real band member to finally post it. No mention of the fans who crowd-funded it getting their money back either, and it honestly wasn't a bad record, just handled poorly by the band. 

A shame too, because I was spinning TF out of that one record back in 2012 and even owned a shirt by them.


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## Flappydoodle (Aug 3, 2022)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I think the more interesting part is that if you replace the Fishman pickups with custom-made Dean passives, then you have his rig for Shogun. His rig like, almost never changed. But his tone still got significantly worse.



I thought Shogun was 5150 and something Mesa. And Colin Richardson used a 421 on that album too, I believe.

But you are still right - it's minor changes and their tone get worse. But then again, boost pedals and EQ will do that, no matter what amps you use.

I also recall that for some of the later albums they ended up re-amping using Kemper anyway


----------



## Bodes (Aug 3, 2022)

Typed a response towards those who mentioned bands who literally changed music and/or guitar playing decades ago. 
My response read like an old man yelling at clouds post. So I say "sit down, boomer!" to myself. I felt bad for myself.

I am a decade or more too young to be a boomer.


----------



## BusinessMan (Aug 3, 2022)

Periphery- some decent riffs here and there but meh.
Monuments is in the same boat as Periphery. 
Arch enemy after recruiting the loomis. 

I guess this thread could be summed as "bands I don't like nor ever did" and "bands I stopped liking after a certain album". However, I do see a few picks in here that certainly haven't lived up to snuff.


----------



## Emperor Guillotine (Aug 3, 2022)

Crungy said:


> Paramore. They didn't crash, quite the opposite as they've been extremely successful. They crashed big time for me as a fan. The move they made to quirky alt-pop or whatever you'd call it on their last album just felt so disingenuous to me: it felt like pandering to the sad twitter/buzz feed crowd. I thoroughly enjoyed everything they did up until the last album, but I don't know if I'll ever get into After Laughter.


This. ^ This. ^ This.

I respect After Laughter, and I can genuinely understand its commercial appeal and find some moments of enjoyment in it…but ultimately it ain’t for me as an album overall. And yes, it absolutely felt like pandering to the sadboi/sadgirl social media crowd of fans who wear their mental illnesses like badges of honor on their sleeves, especially because Hayley at the time was writing lyrics about her experiences with depression, anxiety, and whatever other mental illnesses she is afflicted with.

If you want further evidence of this, look at Hayley’s solo album. (Bet ya forgot about that one, eh?) The whole concept behind it is appealing to the now-adult sadboi/sadgirl crowd of Twitter and Tumblr users. Everything from the actual sound of the production to the lyrics to the album art to the layout are all nail-on-the-head tropes that cater to that very specific demographic. And yet, look what happened to that album. It was marketed to the moon and back (I remember walking through Times Square and seeing Hayley’s face plastered on the lighting billboards), it came out on release day, it did slightly decent numbers in sales, and then it faded into obscurity. Hayley Williams is/was a massive artist due to Paramore. So why have so many folks forgotten about her solo album already? The answer lies in the target demographic of listeners.

Not to mention, after the release of her solo album, Hayley dipped off social media entirely and shut down all of her social media accounts because she stated that social media was too overwhelmingly negative and saddening for her. And honestly, I think it circles back to the target demographic of listeners that were surrounding her on social media. A ton of sadbois and sadgirls flooding her posts with comments about their own sadness, their own mental health affliction, feigned words of encouragement, snarky comments, “me me me”-isms, etc. If you surround yourself with those types of people (whether intentionally or unintentionally) and attract them and are constantly exposed to them, then heck yeah, I’m sure it can become a bit too much. But Hayley kind of has no one to blame but herself for specifically catering to that crowd.



RadoncROCKs said:


> Love the Paramore mention - once their original drummer left the music lost all its fun and drive, the sound was totally different


Zac Farro (their original drummer) has been back with the band for quite a long time now though.

Are you sure you’re not thinking of his brother Josh Farro who was the guitarist and main songwriter during the band’s earlier years?

On a somewhat related note: does anyone here on this board remember the Crab Mix version of “Emergency” from the Summer Tic EP that featured Josh Farro screaming on it like he did at the very end of “My Heart”? That song (the Crab Mix version) was absolutely the best shit back in the day during those pop-rock Warped Tour pinnacle years.



rokket2005 said:


> I didn't know how successful After Laughter was, but I liked it too. Still probably S/t> BNE> Riot> AL> AWKIF for me though.


RIOT! > AWKIF > BNE > AL > S/T

Fixed. 



MFB said:


> Damn, peaking with the debut huh? It's a rock solid one to come out with, no track feels wasted, I just always feel weird thinking there was nowhere to go from there.


I love that we are having this discussion about Paramore on this board.

Paramore has been one of my favorite bands for so many years now, ever since I was a young kid in middle school. And RIOT! is still an album that I personally refer back to as a hallmark standard in terms of songwriting, production, and audio engineering, especially for the particular era it came out in where every rock album at the time was being mixed in weirdly compressed way where the incredible production value carried the weight of the songs and made up for the questionable mixing choices; and then everything (every album) was being mastered by Ted Jensen afterwards, and Jensen’s mastering also made up for the questionable mixing choices.

But yeah…I’ve taken a lot of tips from RIOT!


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## eaeolian (Aug 3, 2022)

Lada The Great said:


> The Faceless has so much missed potential. Could (and was) have been great tech death band but now the band is really passive, seems to reactivate for every two years only to play catastrophe of an live show and to subside to passivity after that


Drugs are the answer here. Keene apparently has had on-again, off-again major substance abuse issues. If he missed his window musically but manages to get through that, it's worth it.


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## eaeolian (Aug 3, 2022)

Nevermore. They had a pretty awesome 3 album run, seemed to recover for one more good record, then...

There were drug/alcohol/health issues involved there, too.


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## MFB (Aug 3, 2022)

Emperor Guillotine said:


> This. ^ This. ^ This.
> 
> I respect After Laughter, and I can genuinely understand its commercial appeal and find some moments of enjoyment in it…but ultimately it ain’t for me as an album overall. And yes, it absolutely felt like pandering to the sadboi/sadgirl social media crowd of fans who wear their mental illnesses like badges of honor on their sleeves, especially because Hayley at the time was writing lyrics about her experiences with depression, anxiety, and whatever other mental illnesses she is afflicted with.
> 
> ...



Oof, don't mention Hayley's solo album, what a fucking ture that was dead on arrival. Saw absolutely zero hype for it pre release, and NO ONE has talked about it since it dropped. It could've been huge but it's just, probably already incredibly dated.


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## Emperor Guillotine (Aug 3, 2022)

MFB said:


> Oof, don't mention Hayley's solo album, what a fucking ture that was dead on arrival. Saw absolutely zero hype for it pre release, and NO ONE has talked about it since it dropped. It could've been huge but it's just, probably already incredibly dated.


Dead on arrival. Fucking miserable mess. Only appealed to a very, very, VERY tiny faction of a specific audience. And let’s be honest…it just wasn’t good objectively.

I don’t care how subjectively the artist is emotionally attached to their work, but that solo album vanished into the void immediately for a reason.

Hayley inundating social media with her insufferable vocalizing for hardcore ultra-leftist, left-wing extremist, and pseudo-progressive socio-political jargon constantly around the time of her solo album’s release probably didn’t help either. I know it made many fans and non-fans sick of her. (So, I guess she should become a classic industry case where we pay her to shut up, look pretty, and not open her mouth publicly unless it’s to sing.)


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## Blytheryn (Aug 3, 2022)

MFB said:


> Yeah, Trivium has been on an upward trajectory since TSATS came out with Alex joining the band, but their tone has definitely gone hill from their old sound, so it's a give and take unfortunately.


What I’ve always wondered is, how hard is it to have good tone? It seems extremely easy.


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## JW Shreds (Aug 3, 2022)

I feel like Unearth are the one band that i think of when i think of a band that never got as big as they should have. Im biased because they’re literally my favorite band but man. They meshed Iron maiden leads, sweeps, in flames style melodies, slow crowbar style riffs, and hardcore together effortlessly. The Stings Of Conscience and The Oncoming Storm pretty much laid the groundwork for that era of metalcore and a lot of bands at the time kind of took what Unearth did and got bigger off of it. Im looking at you ABR (Thrill seeker/ Messengers era) and Parkway Drive (horizons and kwas era)! 
I love those bands but the influence was pretty obvious


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## JW Shreds (Aug 3, 2022)

MFB said:


> Yeah, Trivium has been on an upward trajectory since TSATS came out with Alex joining the band, but their tone has definitely gone hill from their old sound, so it's a give and take unfortunately.


Dude i feel like they just need to work with Jason Suecof or Nick raskulinecz again, the albums they did with them sound MILES better. Ascendancy, Crusade and Shogun have such sick tones


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Aug 3, 2022)

Flappydoodle said:


> I thought Shogun was 5150 and something Mesa. And Colin Richardson used a 421 on that album too, I believe.
> 
> But you are still right - it's minor changes and their tone get worse. But then again, boost pedals and EQ will do that, no matter what amps you use.
> 
> I also recall that for some of the later albums they ended up re-amping using Kemper anyway



OD > 6505+ (AKA: even more midrange-heavy 5150) > V30-loaded Marshall cab > Multiple mics


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## Xaios (Aug 3, 2022)

eaeolian said:


> then...


----------



## eaeolian (Aug 4, 2022)

Xaios said:


> View attachment 111887


Jeez, dude, don't post that steaming pile of garbage in here. 

It was very plain that Loomis didn't want to be involved anymore. This makes Enemies of Reality look like Abbey Road.


----------



## Lorcan Ward (Aug 4, 2022)

This Godless Endeavour was a 10/10 for me and I still can't believe they followed it up with that album. Maybe I should go back and listen to it with fresh ears since I only gave it one spin. I recall Peter Wichers having a lot of input and the band struggling to record which may have changed up the sound so much.


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## mastapimp (Aug 4, 2022)

Lorcan Ward said:


> This Godless Endeavour was a 10/10 for me and I still can't believe they followed it up with that album. Maybe I should go back and listen to it with fresh ears since I only gave it one spin. I recall Peter Wichers having a lot of input and the band struggling to record which may have changed up the sound so much.


I also had high expectations after TGE. Obsidian Conspiracy just felt like they dialed it in on most of the tracks and they weren't as inspired as their previous albums. I really liked what Peter did with Praises to the War Machine.


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## The Mirror (Aug 4, 2022)

I mean sure after "The Godless Endeavour" "Obsidian Conspiracy" sure is quite a step down. Doesn't change the fact that "She Comes in Colors" has probably the catchies Nevermore riff ever. I love that track.


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## Xaios (Aug 4, 2022)

The Mirror said:


> Doesn't change the fact that "She Comes in Colors" has probably the catchies Nevermore riff ever. I love that track.


I also quite enjoyed "And the Maiden Spoke", personally.


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## CanserDYI (Aug 4, 2022)

BlueTrident said:


> For me it’s Hacktivist. There was a lot of hype around the band in 2013 and a lot of people were hoping that they would release their debut album soon in order to capitalise on their explosion onto the UK scene. Their set at Download Festival combined with multiple European festival appearances made many people at the time think that they were going to the British RATM. But the songs that came after were just generic djent riffs and lyrics that were literally just ‘fuck the system’ with no finesse and limited scope.
> 
> On top of that, the debut album came out too late (2016) for them to make a bigger name for themselves as well as two of the original members leaving (one of the vocalists and the guitarist), they’ve kind of fallen by the wayside. Although they’ve released a new album and put out new music, it feels like they haven’t gone anywhere since the peak of the hype that surrounded the band.
> 
> Oh and King 810, remember in 2014 when Roadrunner were trying to get all of the metal publications to say that they were going to be the next big thing?


Fuck King 810, meth head losers from Flint.


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## Xaios (Aug 4, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> Fuck King 810, meth head losers from Flint.


Damn, I remember hearing that name. Didn't take much reading back in the day to conclude that "Wow, yeah, these guys are actual, factual criminals."

Apparently at least the singer is also a Trumper to boot. He was at the January 6th riot.


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## CanserDYI (Aug 4, 2022)

Xaios said:


> Damn, I remember hearing that name. Didn't take much reading back in the day to conclude that "Wow, yeah, these guys are actual, factual criminals."
> 
> Apparently at least the singer is also a Trumper to boot. He was at the January 6th riot.


They stole a bunch of shit from a house party/show here in Toledo like 10 years ago if I remember correctly.


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## BornToLooze (Aug 4, 2022)

Blytheryn said:


> What I’ve always wondered is, how hard is it to have good tone? It seems extremely easy.



I mean, I still use the these are Eddie's personal settings from the 5150 on my 6505 and it sounds like what metal should sound like to me.


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## Rock4ever (Aug 5, 2022)

Days of the New


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## estabon37 (Aug 5, 2022)

Not to turn the thread into a whole other topic, but it really seems like the majority of the bands listed here are 2000s-era bands, and I don't really know how any of them could financially afford to really live up to their own hype. A ton of my favourite bands kicked off in the 90s, which was basically the last point in time when bands could release an album, it becomes a hit, and they walk away at least somewhat financially stable. After it became possible to pirate music, and once streaming wound up being the 'acceptable middleground' that just doesn't actually generate any money for artists, and after record labels wound up taking a cut of ticket sales and merchandise (let's not even get into Ticketmaster), I don't think a band like Trivium - who have been mentioned a lot here - could actually financially afford to do anything other than put out an album and tour it every 2-3 years regardless of whether they or anybody else thinks the quality of the material actually matches their previous output.

Closer to topic, Protest The Hero has been mentioned here a bit, and I thought Palimpsest was genius. I really thrashed it for a little while there. I also initially found it impossible to buy a copy of the album, and I can't help feeling that my several dozen spins on Spotify likely wouldn't have even bought the band half a Snickers. I'm not even blaming the pirates / streamers here; it really seems the music industry killed the music industry by prioritising popular media over creative arts every single fucking time.

Edit: Fucking typo. Bourbon is my best friend and worst enemy.


----------



## Tool jira shugg (Aug 5, 2022)

This hurts to say because they’re still currently my 3rd favorite band of all time, but Between the Buried and Me. 

Since Coma Ecliptic, it just seems like they’re blatantly trying to mimic other bands and be as corny as possible doing it. For me, there’s barely anything memorable from the last few albums they’ve put out.


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## Tool jira shugg (Aug 5, 2022)

works0fheart said:


> Don't know how I didn't think of this, but Between the Buried and Me. It's all been downhill since Colors (I still liked TGM).


I love all albums up until Coma, but I agree that it has gradually went downhill since Colors, which is my most favorite by them.


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## works0fheart (Aug 5, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> Born of Osiris peaked at The New Reign y'all crazy.



Whaaaaat? The Discovery is awesome and they only one that I can actually remember lol



CJ7 said:


> Spawn of Possession - Incurso was one of the best Tech albums ever, and now they're gone


I wouldn't say they missed their potential though. Everything they put out was great, and the quality only got better with each album. They said the SoP sound was creatively exhausted (I can believe that since the song structures were ridiculously dense) and I fully respect that instead of putting out half assed material. Probably better for them to go out on top than to put out a bunch of meh material and fade away


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## mastapimp (Aug 5, 2022)

Rock4ever said:


> Days of the New


One of my all time favorites and a huge influence on my acoustic playing. I've seen them several times in concert and hung out after the shows and it's such a shame what happened to Travis. First time I met him, he was the nicest guy, a few years later he'd ditched the band and was very paranoid. Last time he was a few shades above homeless in his appearance and was in poor health. He's the poster child for "just say no to drugs"...so much squandered talent.


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## Furtive Glance (Aug 5, 2022)

Just thought of another one. Threat Signal. Under Reprisal was so damn good.


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## Velokki (Aug 19, 2022)

I just thought of Ne Obliviscaris today. They have a couple of great songs... but also, mostly filler stuff that is just downright boring.

You could just label the boring songs as "prog", but I seriously think that band could have so much more potential if they wrote better songs.


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## p0ke (Aug 19, 2022)

Lorcan Ward said:


> This Godless Endeavour was a 10/10 for me and I still can't believe they followed it up with that album. Maybe I should go back and listen to it with fresh ears since I only gave it one spin. I recall Peter Wichers having a lot of input and the band struggling to record which may have changed up the sound so much.



I really liked The Obsidian Conspiracy when it came out  To be fair though, it was the first Nevermore album I listened to enough to get into properly, so I guess maybe I'd be more disappointed if it came out today...


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## Crundles (Aug 19, 2022)

Lorcan Ward said:


> This Godless Endeavour was a 10/10 for me and I still can't believe they followed it up with that album. Maybe I should go back and listen to it with fresh ears since I only gave it one spin. I recall Peter Wichers having a lot of input and the band struggling to record which may have changed up the sound so much.



Yeah, This Godless Endeavour will probably remain my number 1 most favourite album in metal, and The Obsidian Conspiracy, uh, is definitely one of the albums that Nevermore recorded.

It does have some pretty decent songs, and I still think Emptiness Unobstructed is a super cool and accessible Nevermore song, but ... yeah.

For real, tho, it's a nice song:


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## BusinessMan (Aug 19, 2022)

I'll mention periphery again. They have everything i like in metal, but it just falls flat. Another is monuments. I love John browne's playing, I love the guitar playthroughs, but other than a couple songs I can't get into it.


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## ExplorerMike (Aug 19, 2022)

Haven’t seen The Union Underground mentioned here yet. They put out one album that was solid back in the early 2000s, toured (they were great live) and then disappeared. They’ve been teasing a comeback for a few years now but no new material or anything. I figured they’d be around for a few albums back then at least.


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## RevDrucifer (Aug 19, 2022)

ExplorerMike said:


> Haven’t seen The Union Underground mentioned here yet. They put out one album that was solid back in the early 2000s, toured (they were great live) and then disappeared. They’ve been teasing a comeback for a few years now but no new material or anything. I figured they’d be around for a few albums back then at least.



Man, I used to watch MTV2 all the time waiting for their vids to pop up. They had some sick fucking songs!!! First heard them on the Ozzfest 2001 CD, I think it was “South Texas Death Ride” and then saw the video for “Revolution Man” shortly after, good shit!


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## RevDrucifer (Aug 19, 2022)

JW Shreds said:


> Dude i feel like they just need to work with Jason Suecof or Nick raskulinecz again, the albums they did with them sound MILES better. Ascendancy, Crusade and Shogun have such sick tones



Man, I love the mix on What The Dead Men Say, that’s one of my favorite metal mixes of all time and I’m not a big Trivium fan by any means. The drums sound so fucking good on that album. 

I think I have a love/hate thing with those guys; there are some songs I absolutely love, pretty much all of Ascendancy and then it’s just 1-3 songs per album that I dig and the rest do nothing for me. “Among The Shadow And The Stones” is a straight up banger, I listen to that on my morning drive into work a lot just to get my blood flowing while air drumming the shit out of it. I’m almost 40 and my hair is pretty much entirely gray; ever see that video of the old dude air drumming the fuck out to “Enter Sandman”? That’s me whenever I listen to that song.  

I tend not to focus too much on guitars tones on their own within the context of an album because they’re just a percentage of the mix/sum of all the parts, for the most part I always dig their tones, some I just dig slightly more than others but none of them have been to the point I can dig the album as a result.


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## Velokki (Aug 19, 2022)

BusinessMan said:


> I'll mention periphery again. They have everything i like in metal, but it just falls flat. Another is monuments. I love John browne's playing, I love the guitar playthroughs, but other than a couple songs I can't get into it.


I love Periphery, but really share your opinion on Monuments. Jesus Christ. They have some of the best riffs, John Browne is a machine. But all in all, the songs they write don't do much for me. I tried to listen to them many times, and for. ex. Vanta has one of the sickest intros with the tight riffage... but I think as a whole the song is just meh.

And I tried since 2013 to get into them, always admiring John's playing. But yeah, I just don't jive with their songs.


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## budda (Aug 19, 2022)

tian said:


> Yup. Considering how much people have freaked out over Revocation over the years I always thought it was weird that Wretched seemed to fly under the radar while making just as good or better albums.
> 
> 
> Related to this, I'd say Cloudkicker too. Released some great material, seemed to be done with heavy albums and then came back with Subsume which was arguably the strongest album and then... just sort of started trickling fine but not really noteworthy material.


Havent checked 6 pages to see if Solitude was mentioned so Im mentioning it. Really though all his albums are awesome - pick a mood and find the album imo.


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## BusinessMan (Aug 19, 2022)

Velokki said:


> I love Periphery, but really share your opinion on Monuments. Jesus Christ. They have some of the best riffs, John Browne is a machine. But all in all, the songs they write don't do much for me. I tried to listen to them many times, and for. ex. Vanta has one of the sickest intros with the tight riffage... but I think as a whole the song is just meh.
> 
> And I tried since 2013 to get into them, always admiring John's playing. But yeah, I just don't jive with their songs.


The only versions I care for are the emgtv playthroughs Browne did. Quasimodo is the only monuments song I can listen to


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## Rob Joyner (Aug 19, 2022)

Helmet. It's basically Meantime and that's it. The other albums are VERY hit or miss.
Fear Factory. Basically Demanufacture and Obsolete. All the other other songs are the same 000 111 333 00 00 000

Also Devin has got to be one of the most overrated artists ever. SYL's city is amazing. The rest? meh...


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## Kaura (Aug 19, 2022)

Death metal in general. Fucking played out bullshit. Every band has like one somewhat interesting song but there rest is total garbage. There I said it. Deathcore on the other hand is like death metal but better.

Also, Periphery, all killer no filler. <3

Edit: Also, Architects. Fuck Architects.


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## Emperor Guillotine (Aug 19, 2022)

Kaura said:


> Edit: Also, Architects. Fuck Architects.


Maaaan…did that band ever go downhill so hard and so quickly after Tom passed away.

_LT/LF_ and _All Our Gods_ are two of my all-time favorite metal albums. I made quite the conscious attempt to get into _Holy Hell _in remembrance of Tom (especially since I own one of his personal guitars)_, _but I just couldn’t. And whatever the fuck Architects is doing now…the bland as fuck, 3-4 chord, Bring Me the Horizon ripoff attempt at arena rock…it ain’t it. I can’t even listen to any of the band’s recent material nowadays.


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## syzygy (Aug 19, 2022)

Velokki said:


> I love Periphery, but really share your opinion on Monuments. Jesus Christ. They have some of the best riffs, John Browne is a machine. But all in all, the songs they write don't do much for me. I tried to listen to them many times, and for. ex. Vanta has one of the sickest intros with the tight riffage... but I think as a whole the song is just meh.
> 
> And I tried since 2013 to get into them, always admiring John's playing. But yeah, I just don't jive with their songs.


This is also my feeling, and it drives me crazy that I don't like Monuments, because on paper I really should. My gut feeling is that everything they write feels too...busy, if that makes sense. Feels like so many of their songs have no rests, it's just all 100% all the time


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## WolleK (Aug 20, 2022)

Corelia Album anyone?


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## Andromalia (Aug 20, 2022)

Bad4good. They were a bunch of teenagers that had a "discovered by Steve Vai" badge,did one album, and... nothing.


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## soul_lip_mike (Aug 20, 2022)

Dark New Day, Tantric, Dimension Zero.


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## Louis Cypher (Aug 20, 2022)

Andromalia said:


> Bad4good. They were a bunch of teenagers that had a "discovered by Steve Vai" badge,did one album, and... nothing.


They were really good actually, Thomas McRocklin did that album at 11/12 yrs old, incredible child prodigy on guitar. If you check out his yt channel he has a video up there on what happened to B4G and how it contributed to his loss of love for music and the guitar in his teens and twenties.

Thankfully he is back now and still an absolute monster player. His yt channels really good, lots of cool stories from when he was a kid with Vai and Ibanez, on TV and what not


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## breadtruck (Aug 20, 2022)

I'd nominate The Human Abstract for this. They disappeared from existence not long after releasing Digial Veil in 2011. The album got good press, the band had a solid lineup and a bunch of planned tours with other hyped bands in the scene (Periphery, Scale the Summit, etc), but after various cancellations and members leaving, they just fizzled out. No official statements. A massive shame IMO as the writing on Digital Veil was top-notch and that sound was super unique for the scene. It was the album that made me start to appreciate classical music.


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## RevDrucifer (Aug 21, 2022)

soul_lip_mike said:


> Dark New Day, Tantric, Dimension Zero.



I realized recently that I didn’t have the first DnD album on my iTunes, went to add it and found two other albums. I knew they existed but didn’t know they finally got released (years ago). I still haven’t had the chance to listen to them, but I LOVE the first album. I really love anything with Clint Lowery on it and he was still full on Mark IV on that first album before switching to H&K’s.


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## soul_lip_mike (Aug 21, 2022)

RevDrucifer said:


> I realized recently that I didn’t have the first DnD album on my iTunes, went to add it and found two other albums. I knew they existed but didn’t know they finally got released (years ago). I still haven’t had the chance to listen to them, but I LOVE the first album. I really love anything with Clint Lowery on it and he was still full on Mark IV on that first album before switching to H&K’s.


Their first album was really, really great. The next two were kind of letdowns.


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## Matt08642 (Aug 21, 2022)

Rob Joyner said:


> Also Devin has got to be one of the most overrated artists ever. SYL's city is amazing. The rest? meh...



To me the issue with Devin is the dire fan base. I used to be in the “Devin can do no wrong!” Crowd, and I often see people saying Devin can basically do anything, but that’s from an outsider/metalhead perspective. Metalhead Devin fans hear him make some bleeps and bloops and then say he can “Write EDM”, or they hear Casualties of Cool and say he could be a country artist or that the album would appeal to fans of that genre, which it wouldn’t. That’s not to say I don’t enjoy the music, i just can’t deal with the super fans lol.


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## guitaardvark (Aug 21, 2022)

Matt08642 said:


> To me the issue with Devin is the dire fan base. I used to be in the “Devin can do no wrong!” Crowd, and I often see people saying Devin can basically do anything, but that’s from an outsider/metalhead perspective. Metalhead Devin fans hear him make some bleeps and bloops and then say he can “Write EDM”, or they hear Casualties of Cool and say he could be a country artist or that the album would appeal to fans of that genre, which it wouldn’t. That’s not to say I don’t enjoy the music, i just can’t deal with the super fans lol.


Part of me thinks that his fans are so loyal because he's so charismatic and entertaining outside of musical contexts. 

I love listening to interviews with him for those reasons, but he constantly admits that he doesn't have a clear vision for a lot of what he does. He's admitted that he absolutely did not want to do Z2, he's tried to write pop songs multiple times because his regular stuff wasn't cutting it, and that Genesis was an unlistenable, formless mess. 

I would go to a show for the spectacle, the banter, and a handful of songs from ZTO and Deconstruction, but I unfortunately have to agree that the rest of his catalogue just doesn't hook me.


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## Emperor Guillotine (Aug 21, 2022)

guitaardvark said:


> Part of me thinks that his fans are so loyal because he's so charismatic and entertaining outside of musical contexts.


Nailed it.

As musically talented as Devin Townsend might be, he is definitely more of a “cult of personality” type of character, which is evident from the behaviors of his fanbase.


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## Edika (Aug 21, 2022)

Not all the bands come to mind but a few I can think of:

Däath. A lot of hype by online media when they first started and for the albums they put out, a lot of praise for the genius of the guitar players and it was just meh. Not bad by any means and some of the songs where bangers but not nearly unique enough to warrant the hype. And while the guitar players are great musicians, nothing outstanding in the guitar work to warrant tall the claims.

Arch Enemy. When they put out their first album Black Earth it was like listening to a heavier and more melodic version of Carcass at the same time. Stigmata was good but marked what was to come. I wasn't a fan of the singer but when they hired Angela, while a better vocalist for sure, the quality of music slowly deteriorated. Burning Bridges was so boring as everything else they put out.

Nevermore. I love this band up until, and including, Dreaming Neon Black. I know Loomis is one of the main reason a lot of people at 7 strings, including myself, but it really fucked up his song writing. While I listened to all the albums afterwards and do like a lot of songs, I can't say I like a full album. Maybe This Godless Endeavour comes somewhat close, but still it can't touch their first records. 

A bit more obscure, Darkane. Great composer, quite a bit of hype, but never really delivered. It just left a lot to be desired.

The band Broderick and Dover did after leaving Megadeth. Pure snoozefest. I can't even remember the ne of the band. Oh wait I just googled it, Act of Defiance.

Spiral Architect. A quite extreme tech prog band that should have extreme vocal but they decided to go with Psychotic Waltz type vocals. Still it was a great effort but never followed through.


----------



## mpexus (Aug 21, 2022)

Louis Cypher said:


> If you check out his yt channel he has a video up there on what happened to B4G and how it contributed to his loss of love for music and the guitar in his teens and twenties.


You happen to have a direct link to that video?


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## soul_lip_mike (Aug 21, 2022)

Into eternity


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## RevDrucifer (Aug 23, 2022)

Matt08642 said:


> To me the issue with Devin is the dire fan base. I used to be in the “Devin can do no wrong!” Crowd, and I often see people saying Devin can basically do anything, but that’s from an outsider/metalhead perspective. Metalhead Devin fans hear him make some bleeps and bloops and then say he can “Write EDM”, or they hear Casualties of Cool and say he could be a country artist or that the album would appeal to fans of that genre, which it wouldn’t. That’s not to say I don’t enjoy the music, i just can’t deal with the super fans lol.



I’d agree with that. They’re becoming Tool fans.  

I was in a Devin FB group for a while and bailed because it was too much gushing all the time, it made me feel awkward FOR Devin. 

I’m a big Dev fan going back to Sex And Religion, but not every album grabs me and some I will most certainly never listen to again (I’m all set with Puzzle and Epicloud didn’t do much for me at all, nor Ziltoid 2). In general there’s 2-3 songs I LOVE off a Dev album and the rest I can take or leave, thankfully, he’s got a lot of fucking albums.


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## MFB (Aug 23, 2022)

Edika said:


> Not all the bands come to mind but a few I can think of:
> 
> Arch Enemy. When they put out their first album Black Earth it was like listening to a heavier and more melodic version of Carcass at the same time. Stigmata was good but marked what was to come. I wasn't a fan of the singer but when they hired Angela, while a better vocalist for sure, the quality of music slowly deteriorated. Burning Bridges was so boring as everything else they put out.



Burning Bridges BORING? Bro, it's the best Arch Enemy album out of their entire catalog, shit is fucking bangers from start to finish.


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## Flappydoodle (Aug 23, 2022)

Edika said:


> Arch Enemy. When they put out their first album Black Earth it was like listening to a heavier and more melodic version of Carcass at the same time. Stigmata was good but marked what was to come. I wasn't a fan of the singer but when they hired Angela, while a better vocalist for sure, the quality of music slowly deteriorated. Burning Bridges was so boring as everything else they put out.


But they've gone onto massive commercial success since then.

And really - you think Wages of Sin and Anthems of Rebellion were lower quality? Those are two of my favourite albums.

Even nowadays they're still a bit conflicted though. The latest album has some proper metal songs, some almost power metal, and some very obvious "radio friendly" songs.


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## ElRay (Aug 23, 2022)

RevDrucifer said:


> In general there’s 2-3 songs I LOVE off a Dev album and the rest I can take or leave, thankfully, he’s got a lot of fucking albums.


Trying to get into Dev & the different projects is like hitting an avant-garde buffet where things aren't as they appear:
Oh, here's a plate of petit-fours - There are petit-fours, but there are also cube-shaped pierogis and dumplings


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## mastapimp (Aug 23, 2022)

Edika said:


> Not all the bands come to mind but a few I can think of:
> 
> Däath. A lot of hype by online media when they first started and for the albums they put out, a lot of praise for the genius of the guitar players and it was just meh. Not bad by any means and some of the songs where bangers but not nearly unique enough to warrant the hype. And while the guitar players are great musicians, nothing outstanding in the guitar work to warrant tall the claims.
> 
> ...


Gotta disagree on the Nevermore inclusion on this list. None of those albums before dead heart even charted. I think they gained more fans as their sound evolved and Jeff was certainly more exposed to the guitar world with his columns and covers in magazines, signature gear, and instructional dvds. I felt like they were moving up in terms of success all the way until the end. 

However, I do agree with the call on Daath. I heard a lot of hype but they never really broke through and the music was decent, but not as good as some of their contemporaries. A tasty gypsy jazz influenced solo here and there can only get you so far.


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## eaeolian (Aug 23, 2022)

soul_lip_mike said:


> Into eternity


Yeah, seriously. "Buried In Oblivion" is one of my all-time favorite albums, but unfortunately that group of musicians couldn't do the the level of touring they needed to do to support it, and then the constantly shifting lineups and Tim's family problems really wreaked havoc on the music. The last record was good, probably the best since BoO, but at this point they're never going to be what they could have been.


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## eaeolian (Aug 23, 2022)

Flappydoodle said:


> But they've gone onto massive commercial success since then.
> 
> And really - you think Wages of Sin and Anthems of Rebellion were lower quality? Those are two of my favourite albums.
> 
> Even nowadays they're still a bit conflicted though. The latest album has some proper metal songs, some almost power metal, and some very obvious "radio friendly" songs.


"Commercial Success" != "Good". They lost me after Burning Bridges. On the flip side, they've become bigger than I ever thought they would, so more power to them, but the music's been boring to me for years now.


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## Emperor Guillotine (Aug 23, 2022)

mastapimp said:


> However, I do agree with the call on Daath. I heard a lot of hype but they never really broke through and the music was decent, but not as good as some of their contemporaries. A tasty gypsy jazz influenced solo here and there can only get you so far.


Same.

Now, Eyal Levi of Daath is leveraging the platforms for all of the business ventures that he has a hand in (Nail the Mix, Riffhard, the JST stuff, etc.) in order to get some reach to pimp a “Daath comeback” that he is writing by himself (no Emil Werstler) along with a bit of help from friends who are personal friends yet also self-important, musical nobodies.

So, out of curiosity, I went back and listened to Daath’s past two albums. Thoroughly unimpressive. Nothing special. Emil Werstler’s very tasty, very recognizable approach to writing solos is the only thing that stood out. Period.

Like…let’s be honest…hardly anyone cared about Daath back then when they were active. Now, so much time has elapsed that possibly no one will care again. And yet, a bunch of folks who subscribe to Nail the Mix (or listen to the NTM podcast) are now jerking Eyal off over some mediocre death metal riffs on social media? Come on… (At least he seems to have found or created his new target demographic.)


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## MFB (Aug 23, 2022)

eaeolian said:


> Yeah, seriously. "Buried In Oblivion" is one of my all-time favorite albums, but unfortunately that group of musicians couldn't do the the level of touring they needed to do to support it, and then the constantly shifting lineups and Tim's family problems really wreaked havoc on the music. The last record was good, probably the best since BoO, but at this point they're never going to be what they could have been.



I'll also add that I'm personally not a fan of Stu's vocals in the band, or really any band. He went from taking over in Into Eternity, to then taking over in Iced Earth, and was adequately whelming in both bands who had good/great singers before them.


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## Edika (Aug 23, 2022)

MFB said:


> Burning Bridges BORING? Bro, it's the best Arch Enemy album out of their entire catalog, shit is fucking bangers from start to finish.





Flappydoodle said:


> But they've gone onto massive commercial success since then.
> 
> And really - you think Wages of Sin and Anthems of Rebellion were lower quality? Those are two of my favourite albums.
> 
> Even nowadays they're still a bit conflicted though. The latest album has some proper metal songs, some almost power metal, and some very obvious "radio friendly" songs.


For me the two first albums weren't as influenced from the so called NWOSDM. They were more unique. Then the tempos and brutality subsided for a more traditional heavy sound. Ammot was doing Spiritual Beggars at the time and I feel it affected the sound of Arch Enemy, in terms of song structure and riffing style.
Sure they have had a lot of commercial success but for me it doesn't make them less boring. However its been many years since I listened to the first couple of albums with Angela so I should give them a spin to see if my opinion stands firm. OP asked which bands we consider that had lost potential and were over hyped. For me Arch Enemy is one of them.



mastapimp said:


> Gotta disagree on the Nevermore inclusion on this list. None of those albums before dead heart even charted. I think they gained more fans as their sound evolved and Jeff was certainly more exposed to the guitar world with his columns and covers in magazines, signature gear, and instructional dvds. I felt like they were moving up in terms of success all the way until the end.


Nevermore in terms of more commercial appeal were due to Dead Heart, I won't deny that. For me it was the beginning of the end as I found each record less enjoyable than the other. I was really disappointed when I listened to that album. No album has the intensity and consistency of TPOE (I can't find a song that can be considered a filler) and none of their albums has the atmosphere of DNB. 
The guitar playing was excellent and there were great songs on each album after that but there were several songs that are fillers.


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## Emperor Guillotine (Aug 23, 2022)

Y’all out here bantering back and forth about Arch Enemy. I’ll just settle it for ya in five simple words.

Arch Enemy fucking sucks now.

I say that as someone who listened to _Doomsday Machine_ and _Wages of Sin_ a lot in my high school years. In fact, I’m pretty sure that _Doomsday Machine _was one of the first metal albums that I stumbled across and latched onto as a young listener who had never listened to metal before then.

But it has been at least 11-12 years now since I last listened to Arch Enemy. Seriously, it has been a *LONG *time. And nothing about their current direction inspires any motivation in me to go back and listen to them nowadays in 2022.

Speaking of Arch Enemy, I did catch Armageddon live at some point during my college years. They played at a super tiny local bar in my hometown. I can’t remember anything about the show aside from Chris Amott coming across as a dick in-person. But eh…whatever.


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## Flappydoodle (Aug 26, 2022)

eaeolian said:


> "Commercial Success" != "Good". They lost me after Burning Bridges. On the flip side, they've become bigger than I ever thought they would, so more power to them, but the music's been boring to me for years now.


Sure, but the thread title is bands that never lived up to the hype. But Arch Enemy's hype probably hasn't even peaked yet!


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## bostjan (Aug 26, 2022)

eaeolian said:


> "Commercial Success" != "Good". They lost me after Burning Bridges. On the flip side, they've become bigger than I ever thought they would, so more power to them, but the music's been boring to me for years now.


There's a huge audience out there for boring music.  

I do agree with you about how Arch Enemy started out trying lots of fresh ideas, and then steadily became more formulaic with each new album and especially with each new singer.

But as far as hype - maybe it's a personal experience thing, but I don't remember anyone really hyping them up at all until maybe like their 7th or 8th album. But maybe that's also why this whole thread premise seems to throw me off a little on a site like this. Metal doesn't really get "hyped" in 2022. 95% of the metal bands since 2000 have come to me either via word-of-mouth or by seeing them on a playbill with someone else I like. So what classifies as "the hype?" - is it when my buddy Jordan, who normally recommends kickass bands recommends a dud?


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## Edika (Aug 26, 2022)

bostjan said:


> There's a huge audience out there for boring music.
> 
> I do agree with you about how Arch Enemy started out trying lots of fresh ideas, and then steadily became more formulaic with each new album and especially with each new singer.
> 
> But as far as hype - maybe it's a personal experience thing, but I don't remember anyone really hyping them up at all until maybe like their 7th or 8th album. But maybe that's also why this whole thread premise seems to throw me off a little on a site like this. Metal doesn't really get "hyped" in 2022. 95% of the metal bands since 2000 have come to me either via word-of-mouth or by seeing them on a playbill with someone else I like. So what classifies as "the hype?" - is it when my buddy Jordan, who normally recommends kickass bands recommends a dud?


I think in terms of hype they mean metal magazines (back in the day) and online metal news sites. I remember when reading the metal magazines a lot of hyping for bands that when I bought the record I was not a fan.

With social media sometimes names get tossed around a lot quicker and some bands are pushed a bit more, depending on advertising. Some times the hype is justified, other times not but again some times it is subjective. For example there's a lot of hype for Ghost and I do like some of their songs but they haven't clicked with me. So to my eyes they're overhyped but to a lot of people they're great.


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## eaeolian (Aug 27, 2022)

Flappydoodle said:


> Sure, but the thread title is bands that never lived up to the hype. But Arch Enemy's hype probably hasn't even peaked yet!


They're in the "hype that the music can't sustain" part of their career. It can be a long tail - Evergrey's been there for like 15 years.


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## works0fheart (Aug 28, 2022)

Idk how I forgot about this, but DevilDriver. Their first few albums were pretty solid melodeath. Fury of our Makers Hand was really cool and hooky, and though I cant for the life of me remember the name of the follow up, it had some cool songs. It became pretty quickly obvious though that Dez was driving that band to be a commercial band and it ran it into the ground pretty hard for me. The music became cookie cutter as hell and they went through a few lineup changes I think. Every time I ever saw them, even in their heyday, Dez was always the weakest link. Dude could never perform live like on the album, but the rest of the band were always pretty good.

Going to open this can of worms too while I'm at it and say Animals as Leaders. The self titled is one of the most original sounding and boundary pushing albums I can think of and then they became more boring than I thought imaginable.


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## Emperor Guillotine (Aug 28, 2022)

works0fheart said:


> Going to open this can of worms too while I'm at it and say Animals as Leaders. The self titled is one of the most original sounding and boundary pushing albums I can think of and then they became more boring than I thought imaginable.


Nailed it.


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## Triple-J (Aug 28, 2022)

Seeing as I've just spun Dysfunction for the first time in ages and realised how much I like it I'd have to suggest Staind as their first two albums do a AiC meets thrashy groove metal thing pretty well plus Mike Mushok summons up a savage guitar tone on Dysfunction but then they wrote "It's been a while" and everything after that has been sonic mayonaise radio rock.


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## Paul McAleer (Aug 30, 2022)

Every ‘SumerianCore’ group after their 2nd or 3rd release


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## highstringer (Aug 30, 2022)

Elastica. Wish they had stuck around


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## Captain Shoggoth (Aug 30, 2022)

breadtruck said:


> I'd nominate The Human Abstract for this. They disappeared from existence not long after releasing Digial Veil in 2011. The album got good press, the band had a solid lineup and a bunch of planned tours with other hyped bands in the scene (Periphery, Scale the Summit, etc), but after various cancellations and members leaving, they just fizzled out. No official statements. A massive shame IMO as the writing on Digital Veil was top-notch and that sound was super unique for the scene. It was the album that made me start to appreciate classical music.



I would agree but disagree at the same time. Digital Veil was a competent album but the whole thing reeked of neoclassical tropes that have been done to death at this point IMO, and the whole thing felt super safe and Necrophagist-level quantised. Their first album, Nocturne, that was a genuinely exciting record. I'm still yet to hear anything like it in terms of sonically accessible metalcore with a weirdo prog edge.


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## Emperor Guillotine (Aug 30, 2022)

Captain Shoggoth said:


> I would agree but disagree at the same time. Digital Veil was a competent album but the whole thing reeked of neoclassical tropes that have been done to death at this point IMO, and the whole thing felt super safe and Necrophagist-level quantised. Their first album, Nocturne, that was a genuinely exciting record. I'm still yet to hear anything like it in terms of sonically accessible metalcore with a weirdo prog edge.


Agreed. _Nocturne_ was a much superior album. I remember (clearly as day) being a young kid having just entered high school and seeing these full-page ads in magazines that Hopeless Records had taken out to promote the debut album’s release. Because of constantly seeing those ads, _Nocturne_ became one of the first metal albums I got into before really being a fully-fledged metalhead. 

A lot of the first metal stuff that I discovered early on in my young teen/tween years was the more accessible Swedish melodeath like In Flames, Dark Tranquillity, and Arch Enemy all during their peak years where they were enjoying immense commercial success as metal bands. And when I gave The Human Abstract a listen for the first time? They fit right in that mold for that particular sound.

I remember later reading that the band recorded _Nocturne _at The Basement with owner Jamie King in Winston-Salem, North Carolina; and I was enamored with that fact because I was living in NC 2-3 hours away at the time in the town where I grew up.


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## bostjan (Aug 30, 2022)

Triple-J said:


> Seeing as I've just spun Dysfunction for the first time in ages and realised how much I like it I'd have to suggest Staind as their first two albums do a AiC meets thrashy groove metal thing pretty well plus Mike Mushok summons up a savage guitar tone on Dysfunction but then they wrote "It's been a while" and everything after that has been sonic mayonaise radio rock.


I saw Staind live before they were mainstream. Great show. They aren't really my typical cup of tea, but I enjoyed them. Man, back then, a lot of bands that started out showing promise to be a little different ended up going full-white-bread-mayo-sandwich plain after a little exposure. I thought Incubus showed the most promise to become the next Mr. Bungle or Faith No More or whatever - heavy riffs, slap-n-pop bass lines, weird-ass noises, jungle drums, horn sections, lyrics about the most random shit. It was cool and exciting. Then, _Make Yourself_ came out and they were clearly gunning for radio with acoustic songs and softly strummed jazz chords with volume swells soaked in delay, and they cooled it on all of the odds and ends that made me drawn to them. Oh well. Makes me wonder, though, if a really weird band like Secret Chiefs III or Free Salamander Exhibit was approached by a big record label, if they'd end up being that band that everyone wonders why they have a weird name, because they sound just like whatever is on the radio.


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## Xiphos68 (Sep 6, 2022)

There were a lot of solid answers in here. 

I think for me currently it would have to be "The Winery Dogs." 

They are the only band that I can think of that has a huge amount of virtuosity with good songwriting combined that could have actually made it on today's radio. 
They remind me of like a modern Van Halen combined with Rush (trio aspect). 

There's no reason that first album should have won like three or four rock Grammy's with that first record. "I'm No Angel" alone is a Grammy worth song. 
Not to mention "Regret," "Desire," "Criminal," "The Dying." I mean there was a single song on that everyone could relate to. 

Plus the chops were just blistering and Richie's vocals dominated. 

It's like they took everything good out of Rock with a slight hint of Metal and put it on that self-titled. 


I think they would have focused their efforts and invested financially into that band a little more they would have flown a little higher. 
Maybe that will happen on this next record? Who knows? 

Kotzen being with Smith you would think Adrian would get them to open for Maiden?

But to me there's no reason they couldn't become the biggest Rock band in the world because they soar of their peers and everybody is always wanting them back.


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## gunch (Sep 6, 2022)

Has Wintersun been mentioned yet? I absolutely HATE cheesy fantasy melodic death metal and power metal but there's something to the S/T that absolutely whips ass. And instead of taking that cross genre appeal and insane musicmanship and letting it grow like weeds Jari built a sauna


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## Metaldestroyerdennis (Sep 6, 2022)

Markus Vanhala ruined Insomnium. I know there's nothing they could do about Ville Vanni leaving, but now they just sound like a generic ripoff mashup of Insomnium and Omnium Gatherum with none of the strengths of either.


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## Sermo Lupi (Sep 6, 2022)

Xiphos68 said:


> There were a lot of solid answers in here.
> 
> I think for me currently it would have to be "The Winery Dogs."
> 
> ...



Agreed, the Winery Dogs are such a great band. I saw them live and it was incredible. 

Do they fit this thread, though? It's not like they failed to deliver as a supergroup. The quality of the first album was absurd and the second one was great as well. For existing fans of Kotzen/Portnoy/Sheehan, it was everything we wanted. 

It's just that the Winery Dogs didn't generate much mainstream appeal and it's hard to expect them to considering the state of the industry. They lived up to their potential, the public just didn't recognise them for it. 

Maybe that's splitting hairs. The Winery Dogs deserve way more credit than they get, though.


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## Xiphos68 (Sep 6, 2022)

Sermo Lupi said:


> Agreed, the Winery Dogs are such a great band. I saw them live and it was incredible.
> 
> Do they fit this thread, though? It's not like they failed to deliver as a supergroup. The quality of the first album was absurd and the second one was great as well. For existing fans of Kotzen/Portnoy/Sheehan, it was everything we wanted.
> 
> ...


They are absolutely incredible live. All of them being improvisers too just makes it even better.

For me it's not that they failed. They definitely made the greatest Rock N' Roll album of the Century. I'd argue album too. But I digress... 

My problem with them is that they didn't stay at it after "Hot Streak."
It's taken them far too long to get back into the swing of things and people have been begging for them. 
I think given the right circumstances they could have at least been on the radio or in a movie by now.


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## works0fheart (Sep 6, 2022)

Hard agree on The Human Abstract bit. Nocture is a masterpiece. Digital Veil was alright but it wasn't the same and marked a big downshift in style, at least to my ears.


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## Edika (Sep 9, 2022)

Sat down to listen to Wages of Sin and Anthems of Rebellion from Arch Enemy, the two first albums with Angela. I also listened to Burning Bridges that still had Johan. I stand corrected now that I listened to them with fresh ears and not having their first two albums in my mind, they're really good albums. There a few riff choices on some songs that don't make sense but in total they're really good. I can actually hear the music shift on Burning Bridges that continues on the two albums with Angela. I'll listen the the next albums as I haven't been paying too much attention to them. 
In comparison though with their current output? A night and day difference, I think most songs I've heard from their latest records are barely bearable to listen too.


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## Isaiah04 (Sep 10, 2022)

Necrophagist, after you make an album like Epitaph there's so much potential to build upon that sound and push even more boundaries. Dawn And Demise sounded like a step up in technicality and the introduction of 7 strings to the band could have been amazing, but then they just disappeared and Muhammad went silent. Wonder if the 3rd album demo still exists out there.


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## Lorcan Ward (Sep 10, 2022)

I would love to know how Necrophagist playing 7 strings in A standard would have shaped the guitar scene. Would djent have been as popular? Would there still have been a stream of 0-0-1-0 guitarists or would we have had tons of virtuosos playing tech death in low tunings? Would we have more extreme shapes and less superstrats?

We eventually got a lot of tech bands using 7s which I like but they never sounded like Muhammed with a 7th string.


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