# NGD-Roter FF8 all wenge



## scorch (May 7, 2010)

So my Roter came yesterday. 































PU switch broken... I will replace it asap. 





















review comming soon... I want to play this bastard for a while before I give a objective judgement.


*************************************************************************
so here the review. sorry for the delay...


here my new test vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bx4bvuc8bRM

Finish
------ 
wenge wood is amazing. nice grain,

Customer Support
-----------------
quick response on mails and helpful advices in decisions, curteous

Sound
------
The merlins dont have a very high output compared to active EMGs or passive Seymour Duncans (SH4, SH13, SH8). But no problem for my Savage . Sound is a bit muddy and undefined. sustain is good. 

Playability
---------
I come from a normal 6 string to this 8 string fanned fret... So my hands needed some acclimation time. But after some time this beast I love to play with this baby, feels great. The thin neck is awsome. Bendings on the 3th, 4th, 5th and 6th string on eg. the 3th fret will cause the strings jump out of the nut... I will file these a little bit deeper. no big problem

Misc
-----
- 24th fret is off. but no problem, because only two strings are affected
- maybe the guitar is a little bit top-heavy. no problem with a good leather belt. 
- thin but heavy :-D I like wenge 
- belt pin is annoying to play seated, somethimes I dismount it. Belt pin is mounted with a metal thread in the body. thumbs up for this. problems maybe arise when you want to upgrade with a security lock system
- 21th fret is maybe off... but I didnt noticed a tonal error

Overall
-------
Forget all the negative aspects I mentioned. This is an amazing guitar. I would definily buy it again. Thinking about a full custom FF 8 String with some other features (woods, 7pc neck, one high class bridge PU...) 
But I dont think I will use it for recordings... Maybe with rewinded PUs. Or in combination with another amp. It will maybe sounds great with Mesas or other mic combination or placement... So a lot of testing in the future....
I think for this price you get a lot of features and good quality. 

maybe 7-8 from 10
with other PUs 9-10 from 10 ??? :-D


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## orb451 (May 7, 2010)

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck that thing is sickness. Congrats and once again, nice work Sebastian!


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## Jeepers (May 7, 2010)

:O I wasnt sure how all wenge would look
but thats really really nice! Congrats!


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## TomAwesome (May 7, 2010)

Looks nice so far.


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## thepylestory (May 7, 2010)

thats one beautiful shred machine


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## Randy (May 7, 2010)

Holy shit that thing's hot.


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## Elysian (May 7, 2010)

Frets again...


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## drmosh (May 7, 2010)

what's the deal with those 4 extra screws in the back?


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## Randy (May 7, 2010)

I think they're what hold the pickups in place, since it's so thin.


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## drmosh (May 7, 2010)

Randy said:


> I think they're what hold the pickups in place, since it's so thin.



aaha, ir dum! thanks


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## 77zark77 (May 7, 2010)

coooooool ! 

hope it sounds as great as it looks


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## Richie666 (May 7, 2010)

I asked this in the other thread as well... how's the ultra thin body? I'm thinking about getting one but have only played super thick guitars like Schecter, though I feel this would suit me better.

Anyway! Looks amazing man, how does it play?


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## JJ Rodriguez (May 7, 2010)

I'd hold off on buying one until the OP can confirm if the frets are alright.


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## Richie666 (May 7, 2010)

True, but I wouldn't buy one with fanned frets. It is a custom shop so I'm sure it's possible, though i haven't been in any contact with them


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## Beardyman (May 7, 2010)

Elysian said:


> Frets again...



I spotted the same thing. Its sad because I almost ordered one of these when the run began, and i'd still love one as a cheap way to get a handmade guitar and try out fanned frets, but whats the good of it if the frets aren't done properly. 
Lets hope they are fine and its just the picture, i've had high hopes for these since they were announced.


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## Ben.Last (May 7, 2010)

Richie666 said:


> True, but I wouldn't buy one with fanned frets. It is a custom shop so I'm sure it's possible, though i haven't been in any contact with them



This. I want a normally fretted one but I'm still waiting for impressions of the guitars apart from the probable fret issues


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## Deadnightshade (May 7, 2010)

Congrats man!The all wenge came out pretty cool too


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## Fionn (May 7, 2010)

Lookin good!


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## scorch (May 7, 2010)




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## TemjinStrife (May 7, 2010)

Yeah, #21 still looks off in that picture. On the treble side the spacing looks wider than the fret preceding it.


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## 4jfor (May 7, 2010)

I think everyone needs a clip of the intonation at the potentially off fret/s. Only way to tell properly.

Congrats scorch! It really is beautiful


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## scorch (May 8, 2010)

made a short test vid just for you guys... I soon make some vids with my engl savage. maybe meshuggah-obzen.... we will see..




something about the frets... 
I dont see a bigger space when I hold it in my hands... made some quick measurements and spache from fret to fret is 0.9cm-0.9cm-1cm-1.15cm-1.25cm-1.3cm-1.4cm....
to be sure I have to measure with a better tool... and I will log the frequencys but not today....
sorry for this, but dont make noise about not confirmed problems. its good to notice and inform about possible problems, but about the frets it beginns to escalate... only my opinion...


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## 4jfor (May 8, 2010)

Sorry if my post sounded inflammatory or demanding, I meant it in a diffusing, confirm before rally, sort of way. As in, calm down until we hear off intonation.


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## scorch (May 8, 2010)

and Im sorry if anyone understand me wrong. I think we know, that there could be a fret issue, so its not necessary to mention it in every second post. I totally agree with you about to calm down and wait for the intonation test. I will do it asap. Maybe an other one is quicker...


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## JJ Rodriguez (May 8, 2010)

Intonation won't be affected, the guitar will intonate fine. It's the fretted notes around the affected frets that will sound off.


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## MF_Kitten (May 8, 2010)

i sounds very nice. i´ll be checking each and every single fret on mine when i get it, just to be sure.


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## Randy (May 8, 2010)

Sounds good, so far. I really liked that tapping riff. 

Looking forward to a full review and the frequency test.


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## velvetkevorkian (May 8, 2010)

JJ Rodriguez said:


> Intonation won't be affected, the guitar will intonate fine. It's the fretted notes around the affected frets that will sound off.



Er... which is exactly what intonation is. In this case if (obviously TBC) one fret is out only the notes at that fret should be affected.


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## JJ Rodriguez (May 8, 2010)

Well, we're arguing semantics really, it will intonate fine from the perspective that when you set your intonation, you use the open note, and the 12th fret most of the time, so if you look at it like that, you're intonation will work just fine. If you want to get picky and consider it intonating at EVERY fret, then sure. I just mean that the notes at the fucked up frets will not be right, but everything else will.


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## coreysMonster (May 8, 2010)

that is one skinny guitar!


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## darren (May 8, 2010)

scorch said:


> something about the frets...
> I dont see a bigger space when I hold it in my hands... made some quick measurements and spache from fret to fret is 0.9cm-0.9cm-1cm-1.15cm-1.25cm-1.3cm-1.4cm....
> to be sure I have to measure with a better tool... and I will log the frequencys but not today....
> sorry for this, but dont make noise about not confirmed problems. its good to notice and inform about possible problems, but about the frets it beginns to escalate... only my opinion...



What would be very helpful would be to take measurements between the fret slots on both the treble and bass sides of the fretboard. What people are seeing isn't just one wider gap, it's frets that don't seem to be aligned quite correctly.

And if you can use proper calipers for measuring instead of a ruler, that would give much more accurate results.


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## MF_Kitten (May 8, 2010)

maybe someone could figure out where the perpendicular fret is, then use fretfind to calculate the spaces, and compare.


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## 74n4LL0 (May 8, 2010)

scorch said:


>



this pic seems to be taken too near with a wide zoom,
The pic itself looks slightly deformed...there's a sort of very little fisheye effect to it


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## Ernesto (May 9, 2010)




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## Ernesto (May 9, 2010)

74n4LL0 said:


> this pic seems to be taken too near with a wide zoom,
> The pic itself looks slightly deformed...there's a sort of very little fisheye effect to it




You nailed that one. It was tripping me out but I couldn't quite figure out why, like a dude with no eyebrows or something. Anyway, you can tell by the curvature of the lowest and highest strings.

I'm betting that someone that pays enough attention to detail to build a guitar that beautiful would easily be able to get something as simple as fret spacing right. Positive thinking. Very nice guitar!


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## Metal Ken (May 9, 2010)

mdd0127 said:


> I'm betting that someone that pays enough attention to detail to build a guitar that beautiful would easily be able to get something as simple as fret spacing right.



Considering the company's history, and others who have received this run of guitar, I'd withhold such comments till you get intonation results or calipers.


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## Wookieslayer (May 9, 2010)

congrats man, sick guitar. nice dying fetus riffage there


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## Esp Griffyn (May 9, 2010)

mdd0127 said:


> You nailed that one. It was tripping me out but I couldn't quite figure out why, like a dude with no eyebrows or something. Anyway, you can tell by the curvature of the lowest and highest strings.
> 
> I'm betting that someone that pays enough attention to detail to build a guitar that beautiful would easily be able to get something as simple as fret spacing right. Positive thinking. Very nice guitar!



Actually, now I look at it, the photo is fish eyed, it's distorting towards the edges. He has shot a close up of the frets without properly compensating the F value on his lense. Bring out the calipers!


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## Ernesto (May 9, 2010)

Metal Ken said:


> Considering the company's history, and others who have received this run of guitar, I'd withhold such comments till you get intonation results or calipers.




I was just tying to put some positive thought on here for the OP. I firmly believe that if 5000 people are reading this thread and focusing on the frets being wrong, they probably will be once the calipers are on them. If more people just thought "Wow, nice guitar." The calipers would show perfect frets. I probably come off sounding like a wingnut but I've proven my theories to myself and that's all that really matters.

So, my opinion stands. Nice guitar. Looks beautiful, sounds beautiful. Nice guitar. I hope it ends up being technically perfect for you as well.


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## JJ Rodriguez (May 9, 2010)

mdd0127 said:


> I was just tying to put some positive thought on here for the OP. I firmly believe that if 5000 people are reading this thread and focusing on the frets being wrong, they probably will be once the calipers are on them. If more people just thought "Wow, nice guitar." The calipers would show perfect frets. I probably come off sounding like a wingnut but I've proven my theories to myself and that's all that really matters.
> 
> So, my opinion stands. Nice guitar. Looks beautiful, sounds beautiful. Nice guitar. I hope it ends up being technically perfect for you as well.



...You DO know what calipers are right? They are a tool for accurately measuring distance. The opinions of 2 billion people wouldn't change actual measurements.


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## Ernesto (May 9, 2010)

I'm VERY familiar with what calipers are. I think that if 2 billion people focused hard enough on that guitar turning into a unicorn, it would turn into a freaking unicorn. Matter is not solid. It has been proven that thought can affect matter. Check out a documentary called "What the bleep do we know?" The human mind is much more powerful than most think. Start using it positively. Once you figure out we're all wizards and you change your life for the better because of it, you can come back and thank me.


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## JJ Rodriguez (May 9, 2010)

You're not serious.....are you?


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## Metal Ken (May 9, 2010)

mdd0127 said:


> I'm VERY familiar with what calipers are. I think that if 2 billion people focused hard enough on that guitar turning into a unicorn, it would turn into a freaking unicorn. Matter is not solid. It has been proven that thought can affect matter. Check out a documentary called "What the bleep do we know?" The human mind is much more powerful than most think. Start using it positively. Once you figure out we're all wizards and you change your life for the better because of it, you can come back and thank me.


Did your copy of The Secret





Come with the prison shiv, too? or just the cassette tape?


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## djpharoah (May 9, 2010)

*Can we keep this thread on track plz?*


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## Ernesto (May 9, 2010)

JJ Rodriguez said:


> You're not serious.....are you?



As serious as one should be about such things.



So, let's see some more pics/videos.

Sorry for trying to enlighten anyone.


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## oniduder (May 9, 2010)

mdd0127 said:


> As serious as one should be about such things.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



so not at all (serious that is?)

cause i'm going to NOT turn my guitar into a unicorn, 

but possibly turn one of my roommates into the guitar in this thread!, because it's much cooler!!!!


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## Deadnightshade (May 9, 2010)

oniduder said:


> so not at all (serious that is?)
> 
> cause i'm going to NOT turn my guitar into a unicorn,
> 
> but possibly turn one of my roommates into the guitar in this thread!, because it's much cooler!!!!



 I hope none of your roommates sees your post...or else someone is going to have surprise butt secks tonight!!!


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## iondestroyer1527 (May 10, 2010)

these guitars are cool i would like to see one with all black hardware...i will check out the clip when i get home from work! the photo did look weird btw...the f# string was off the fb in the picture haha.


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## Anthony (May 10, 2010)

Nevermind, my post didn't work. Ignore this.


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## Soopahmahn (May 10, 2010)

I would just set the intonation by the 12th fret and then play high chords on the neck including the alleged funny frets. If it sounds good, then great, the fret spacing is obviously within reasonable tolerances. It it doesn't, then bust out the micrometer or whatever you've got and measure distances between the centers of fret wires. This is not a debate, it's easy to solve, and if you could please, there are many people who are interested in this information. If you don't, I suppose MF kitten will be all over it


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## SYLrules88 (May 10, 2010)

that third clip you played, that was 'we are the nightmare' right?

arsis is so awesome 

guitar looks beautiful man. im not sure im ready for a multiscale instrument myself but id sure like to get something from roter someday. how does the wenge neck feel? is it grainy and slick like i keep hearing it is?


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## iondestroyer1527 (May 11, 2010)

saw the vid...guitar is so0o0o0o sweet. nice job with the braindrill haha!


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## scorch (May 11, 2010)

it is the beginning from "we are the nightmare" 
the braindrill riff is very heavy on this guitar, because Im not very familiar with this fretboard... but it will take some time. 

review comes soon... 
little summary until now: the guitar is amazing. look and playability. some little problems, but nothing dramatic.


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## Deadnightshade (May 11, 2010)

scorch said:


> little summary until now: the guitar is amazing. look and playability. some little problems, but nothing dramatic.



Totally agreed on your summary


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## iff (May 15, 2010)

mdd0127 said:


> I'm VERY familiar with what calipers are. I think that if 2 billion people focused hard enough on that guitar turning into a unicorn, it would turn into a freaking unicorn. Matter is not solid. It has been proven that thought can affect matter. Check out a documentary called "What the bleep do we know?" The human mind is much more powerful than most think. Start using it positively. Once you figure out we're all wizards and you change your life for the better because of it, you can come back and thank me.



You're referencing What The Bleep Do We Know?



...


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## Ernesto (May 22, 2010)

What the bleep do you know? Keep laughing and banging your head against walls. 

So, I guess the frets are correctly spaced right?

Again, what a beautiful guitar!


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## Wi77iam (May 23, 2010)

lolwut


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## MF_Kitten (May 23, 2010)

mdd0127 said:


> What the bleep do you know? Keep laughing and banging your head against walls.
> 
> So, I guess the frets are correctly spaced right?
> 
> Again, what a beautiful guitar!




the frets aren´t correctly spaced. i have no idea where you got that from, but it´s not the case.


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## Ernesto (May 24, 2010)

I went back and read the thread. Did it come to a conclusion in another thread? If so, what's Roter doing about it?


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## Sebastian (May 24, 2010)

mdd0127 said:


> I went back and read the thread. Did it come to a conclusion in another thread? If so, what's Roter doing about it?



There is a Roter prodyction thread in the Dealers section


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## scorch (May 30, 2010)

I added a review in the first post. Hope its useful for you guys. Ask if any questions arise. I can do more recordings if you like


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## Deadnightshade (May 30, 2010)

scorch said:


> The merlins dont have a very high output compared to active EMGs or passive Seymour Duncans (SH4, SH13, SH8). But no problem for my Savage . Sound is a bit muddy and undefined. sustain is good.
> 
> 
> with other PUs 9-10 from 10 ??? :-D



Give a try maybe at less gain,bass about 12 o clock (or less i don't know the responce of your savage) and play with mid and treble settings between 1 and 3 o clock ..switching angled pups is pricey so fiddle the EQ a bit more


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## scorch (May 30, 2010)

I dont remember the settings exactly. I think it was something like this:
bass about 10-11, mid 3-4, treble 12 and presence 1. no contour or bass boost... 
I will try other eq settings soon. thx


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## scorch (May 30, 2010)

I hate the youtube audio quality, so I uploaded the wav file. 
http://www.scorch.ch/roter_ff8/roter_ff8_test.wav


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## Deadnightshade (May 30, 2010)

scorch said:


> I dont remember the settings exactly. I think it was something like this:
> bass about 10-11, mid 3-4, treble 12 and presence 1. no contour or bass boost...
> I will try other eq settings soon. thx



Are these o'clock settings or scaled to ten?


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## scorch (May 30, 2010)

Deadnightshade said:


> Are these o'clock settings or scaled to ten?



sorry. o'clock settings :-D


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## Deadnightshade (May 30, 2010)

scorch said:


> sorry. o'clock settings :-D



ok..the bass and mid settings sound fine if i were you i'd cut a bit gain and i'd fiddle the treble and presence controls


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## velvetkevorkian (May 30, 2010)

Nice! Do want!


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## MaxOfMetal (May 30, 2010)

So any news on them frets?


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## Randy (May 30, 2010)

The updated review mentions them briefly.


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## highlordmugfug (May 31, 2010)

In the newest test video (in the original post) the Jackson sounds a bit more defined, but the parts where you use the Roter don't sound bad. Just different. My first thought around 0:23 was that it sounded kind of like Portal (the death metal band).

I'm interested to know about the fret's exact measurements as well. It seems like everyone is making quite a big deal about it, and I can understand where everyone is coming from on that front. To me though, that would be kind of annoying, but not exactly a deal breaker. Meaning: If it is off, I would expect them to fix it, but if I had one of the ones that wasn't already, I wouldn't be too upset about it as the guitar other than that seems very nice to me.


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## scorch (May 31, 2010)

highlordmugfug said:


> In the newest test video (in the original post) the Jackson sounds a bit more defined, but the parts where you use the Roters don't sound bad. Just different. My first thought around 0:23 was that it sounded kind of like Portal (the death metal band).
> 
> I'm interested to know about the fret's exact measurements as well. It seems like everyone is making quite a big deal about it, and I can understand where everyone is coming from on that front. To me though, that would be kind of annoying, but not exactly a deal breaker. Meaning: If it is off, I would expect them to fix it, but if I had one of the ones that wasn't already, I wouldn't be too upset about it as the guitar other than that seems very nice to me.



true, but you have to be careful, I play the same riff but on the roter on F# and on the RR1 on B... But anyway, my feeling is that the jackson has a more defined tone. I think I have to adjust the amp serious and make a RR1-setting and a Roter-setting 

I measured the frets with a caliper and I detected a fret anomaly on the 24th fret
24th fret is wider than 23th fret... 
something is not that exact with the 18th-19th, 19th-20th and 20th-21th spacing. But the error is very small.
I dont hear a tonal error! So for me its no problem....


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## Deadnightshade (May 31, 2010)

scorch said:


> I think I have to adjust the amp serious and make a RR1-setting and a Roter-setting



Exactly that..Guitars are like women..Each one of them is unique and needs separate adjustments..The main difference is that you CAN ALWAYS figure out how a guitar reacts...


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