# Mesa Mark V vs Engl anything



## purpledc (Feb 16, 2012)

I need advice from someone who has had experience with BOTH amps. Im not really looking for "i saw a youtube video and like the engl better type responses". I all ready have a mark V. I love it. The cleans are to die for and an incredible amp. I got it at an amazing price and im happy. To a point. I was really really set on getting an engl before I saw the mesa come up for sale but the mesa was too good to pass up. But I still have the itch for an engl. Im not looking to replace my mark but rather have just another amp. So versatility isnt key. What engl does brutal the best? Im thinking of just getting a fireball as I dont need an extra clean channel just to save money. But if the powerball II is that much better I would spend the extra money. Again all I want it for is super heavy and aggressive music. 

Im kinda hoping someone has had both and can give me a comparison. Ive tried youtube and though I really like Olas videos there is so much production I truly dont get a sense of the actual amplifier. I know I dont want one if they are as dry or more dry than the mesa. I think bottom line Is Im never happy and I get bored easily. I mean I have a arsenal of carvin guitars running through a maxon od808 and both a line 6 m5 and m9. Thats not a bad setup. But I still keept thinking the engl would be better. Am I just fuckin crazy or what?


----------



## EdgeC (Feb 16, 2012)

IMO if you want brutal, dark and agressive in a simple setup and not needing a boost. Get the FB100. I run mine through a Mesa Recto 412 and it sounds huge and cuts like a knife.

Mate of mine has the Powerball II which i've used multiple times. While it has features coming out the wazoo and more channels etc, it does not have that punch or the agressiveness of the Fireball.


----------



## jrui (Feb 16, 2012)

for super heavy and aggressive
you 're describing engl 
my fav is always Savage


----------



## TheDivineWing22 (Feb 16, 2012)

I've had an Engl Invader and I currently have a SE E670 and both were very brutal, especially the Special Edition. If you are looking for super tight, over the top distortion, then the Engl is what you want. It's kind of the reason I'm trying to sell mine because I don't really do much that needs that much distortion.

I'm actually wanting to get a Mark V.


----------



## TMM (Feb 16, 2012)

Honestly, Engls are the epitome of dark, heavy, hi-gain, extreme metal tone (at least the typical Engls). That said, the MKV can get just as dark and heavy, just with a little grainier and more open tone. They have less signal path compression and tone compensation, so you would want a boost for the MKV to compete. The MKV definitely takes it in terms of versatility. Tough call... I'd probably stick with the MK.


----------



## 155 (Feb 16, 2012)

If you want brutal engl tone get the fb100..


----------



## evilsaint (Feb 17, 2012)

I have Mark V and Powerball II on my hands. Before that, I had ENGL Blackmore and Invader.

To be frank, my Mark V in Ch.3 Extreme mode with super-V graphic EQ setting 
is the most brutal and aggressive tone that I ever have before.

Just get a Fireball 60 first if you desperate an ENGL. I believe it won't let you down.
It sounds tight and aggressive just like other ENGLs and slightly saturated than Mark series.

*By the way, get an Axe-FX instead if you get bored easily.*


----------



## Larrikin666 (Feb 17, 2012)

I owned a Fireball 100, Mark V, and SE EL34 at the same time for a few months. The Mark V was great, but both ENGLs got me better high gain tones. I've still never found a tube amp I like more than the SE.


----------



## Genome (Feb 17, 2012)

If you're looking to supplement your Mark V, then go for a Fireball IMO.

Blackmores/Savages are fairly similar to the Mesa but not as good, Invaders and SE's are a good call but quite expensive for a second option.

To be honest, the Mark V is so good you'll be able to get pretty damn near any of the tones with a bit of fiddling, you just won't get the super saturated tone as the Mesa is very open.


----------



## purpledc (Feb 17, 2012)

Yeah Ive been playing with the graphic more on the mark V and that really seems to turn it into a whole new beast. Mix that with the maxon and its damn good and I love it. My thoughts where I was only going to get a fireball if it was really that much more intense than the mark V. I think I need to get out there and try one to really be sure before dropping the coin on one. I hate nothing more than dropping a large amount of money on a heavy piece of gear thats just gonna go back. The ONLY thing that disappoints me about the mark V is that I wish the mark IV, IIc+ and extreme settings were divided up among the other channels so I could have two ultra high gain sounds and one clean. But the Crunch setting on channel 2 aint no slouch with a boost either. Id love a special edition or a savage or even an invader but I dont want to drop that much coin. What I really really wish is that they would put the fireball 100 preamp circuit into a gigmaster amp. I was thinking gigmaster 30 but that thing only having 1 12ax7 scares me.


----------



## purpledc (Feb 17, 2012)

evilsaint said:


> To be frank, my Mark V in Ch.3 Extreme mode with super-V graphic EQ setting
> is the most brutal and aggressive tone that I ever have before.



I just did this and it was the closest thing to a religious experience ive ever had. Thank you very much for this. Pm inbound


----------



## purpledc (Jul 20, 2012)

Well i couldnt help myself. Found an unreal deal on this forum for a engl Invader 100 and its on its way. I love my mark V but I find that It just way too dry for my liking. Im hoping the invader will have a really aggressive sound to it and a little more compression.


----------



## Genome (Jul 20, 2012)

Did you fiddle with the pentode/triode option on ch.3? Triode dials back the punchiness/attack and compresses the signal more, and also try mixing impedances (safely, mind... the manual has great diagrams for this) - the 8ohm output into a 16ohm cab 'darkens' the tone considerably. It sounds wicked. Such a versatile amp, it's taken me 6 months to really get the best out of it.

My new band's EP is tracked with it through a THD Hotplate and into Redwirez Impulses.


----------



## purpledc (Jul 20, 2012)

genome said:


> Did you fiddle with the pentode/triode option on ch.3? Triode dials back the punchiness/attack and compresses the signal more, and also try mixing impedances (safely, mind... the manual has great diagrams for this) - the 8ohm output into a 16ohm cab 'darkens' the tone considerably. It sounds wicked. Such a versatile amp, it's taken me 6 months to really get the best out of it.
> 
> My new band's EP is tracked with it through a THD Hotplate and into Redwirez Impulses.




Yeah man, Ive done all the tricks to get different sounds out of it. Its just a very dry amp. I wanted to try the engl invader because even though the mesa can do brutal with some finesse to me its an amp that you have to choke the shit out of to get it to perform its best. Its not a forgiving amp at all and you need to work at it to get the best out of it. For me I prefer to play more than I tweak and every mesa amp Ive had Ive had to turn knobs more than play. Im not saying the mark V is bad. I love mine but mind you its a love hate relationship. Its like the girlfriend who fucks better after a big fight. Thats all great but Id rather have good sex all the time that great sex every once in awhile. For me to even get close to the sound Im after in my head I have to run in the mark IV mode with the bright switch on and a maxon OD808 in front of the amp. Now I KNOW many people can get the sound THEY want out of a mark V without a boost but I cant. I dont think there is anything wrong with that. Just different strokes for different folks. The engl "sound" just seems to focus on exactly what ive been wanting. And I would like to have an amp that owns the sound im after rather than trying to get my mark V to sound like an engl.


----------



## Genome (Jul 20, 2012)

The thought of needing to use a boost with the Mark V makes me cringe a little.  

But yes, different strokes. I know what you mean, though. It can be finicky sometimes. I've never felt the need to crank it to get an awesome tone though, in the bedroom. 3 different wattage modes plus 3 different volume controls = win.


----------



## evilsaint (Jul 20, 2012)

purpledc said:


> Well i couldnt help myself. Found an unreal deal on this forum for a engl Invader 100 and its on its way. I love my mark V but I find that It just way too dry for my liking. Im hoping the invader will have a really aggressive sound to it and a little more compression.


 
You would definitely get more compression from ENGL agaisnt Mark series dryness.

Invader Ch3 has more aggressive and modern/midscooped tone.
Both Ch.2 and Ch.4 are saturated and compressed.
Great amp indeed. Enjoy the amp and MIDI switching function.


----------



## The Scenic View (Jul 21, 2012)

Throwing my 2 cents here: I tried a Mark V and a PBII when I was on vacation (both cabs with v30s, and the same guitar). I honestly preferred the Mark to the PBII. The Mark had this in your face sound that was very full, chunky, bold, aggressive, and articulate. While the PBII had this processed sound that wasn't sitting right with me. I know lots of people say the Engl's are very compressed which is probably the case. The amp just didn't live up to the Mark in terms of tone (IMO). This is biased but I would recommend the Mark (I own it to this day and keep finding new things about it daily). Don't get me wrong, the PBII is a very cool amp with a nice amount of features, but the Mark just stood out more (it also cut better!). IMO, go with the Mark. But it's all what will suit your needs.


----------



## budda (Jul 21, 2012)

genome said:


> The thought of needing to use a boost with the Mark V makes me cringe a little.



why


----------



## purpledc (Jul 21, 2012)

genome said:


> The thought of needing to use a boost with the Mark V makes me cringe a little.
> 
> But yes, different strokes. I know what you mean, though. It can be finicky sometimes. I've never felt the need to crank it to get an awesome tone though, in the bedroom. 3 different wattage modes plus 3 different volume controls = win.



I dont think we are on the same page when talking about a boost. See I dont use a TS type pedal to increase the gain capabilities of an amp. I use one to goose the front end of an amp so that you can actually turn the gain on the amplifier down and get a tighter crisper attack. The Mark V has a lot of gain but IMHO it falls apart when you crank the gain too high. 

The thing that really bothers me about that amp though (this is discussed in little detail in the MKV manual) that their is extra gain in the treble and presence controls. If you turn the presence up past 1:30 and same with the presence you get a huge gain boost. But at those settings ears are on the verge of bleeding. 

The wattage thing was cool until I discovered that I really dont care for the sound of a low wattage amp that is cranked. I think that works very well for blues and other genres where the "right at the point of break up" sounds are dominant but I dont think lends its self well to metal. Some types but not what I like to play. 

The Mark V is a great amp. But even in the manual it say that people play better and more accurate on a mark that most other amps. And that is true. Its is unforgiving. And it will make a fool out of you if you do something foolish. But I like a little bit more wiggle room. I like an amp where I can make a mistake into something beautiful. I also like to use a violent analogy. If you want to bludgeon someone to death grab the mark V. But if you want to cut em to pieces grab the engl. Im a knife kinda guy.


----------



## purpledc (Jul 21, 2012)

The Scenic View said:


> Throwing my 2 cents here: I tried a Mark V and a PBII when I was on vacation (both cabs with v30s, and the same guitar). I honestly preferred the Mark to the PBII. The Mark had this in your face sound that was very full, chunky, bold, aggressive, and articulate. While the PBII had this processed sound that wasn't sitting right with me. I know lots of people say the Engl's are very compressed which is probably the case. The amp just didn't live up to the Mark in terms of tone (IMO). This is biased but I would recommend the Mark (I own it to this day and keep finding new things about it daily). Don't get me wrong, the PBII is a very cool amp with a nice amount of features, but the Mark just stood out more (it also cut better!). IMO, go with the Mark. But it's all what will suit your needs.




thanks for the input. Now were on another amp. I picked up an Invader dirt cheap and now Ill be able to hear them side by side and pick the one I want. Even if the engl doesnt work out im guaranteed to get my money back and if it does work out I can sell the mark V.


----------



## purpledc (Jul 21, 2012)

budda said:


> why




this puzzles me as well. But I know I used to despise the thought of all pedals. I figured it was bullshit that I needed a pedal to get the sound I wanted. But that was when i didnt know about how a boost works and why its beneficial. Now after knowing and hearing it. I cant really live without it. I think as long as you use it tastefully and dont dump it on top of a super saturated amp then your fine. Especially when using an overdrive as simply a signal booster and not and actual distortion pedal. I like to look at it as outboard active electronics. Uh, oh. I said active.


----------



## SirMyghin (Jul 21, 2012)

^^

Yeah they are definitely useful. I use it to get 2 more channels out of my V though, not as the default. The V alone with my outboard EQ (in loop) can make a freaking ASAT special a hairy mofo'd out beast... haha. Hit classic rush tones like Working man with ease.. with single coils.


----------



## Genome (Jul 21, 2012)

Yeah, using an outboard EQ on the V is very effective. I think Metallica used to do that? I always wondered how they got such a scooped tone out of an amp that had mids on tap. 

As for the boost, I really never found the use for one... the treble/presence/last two faders on the EQ were more than enough to get a tight attack when you turn the gain down a little enough and I definitely don't agree with the amp 'falling apart' when you crank the gain. 

*shrugs*

I think Petrucci dimes the gain for a couple of songs, I've heard.


----------



## budda (Jul 21, 2012)

purpledc said:


> this puzzles me as well. But I know I used to despise the thought of all pedals. I figured it was bullshit that I needed a pedal to get the sound I wanted. But that was when i didnt know about how a boost works and why its beneficial. Now after knowing and hearing it. I cant really live without it. I think as long as you use it tastefully and dont dump it on top of a super saturated amp then your fine. Especially when using an overdrive as simply a signal booster and not and actual distortion pedal. I like to look at it as outboard active electronics. Uh, oh. I said active.



 Active. I keep my TS around for the same reason you do - as little gain as I can possibly use on the amp while still getting a beefy tone. I use the TS for a bit of extra dirt and to tighten things up. With my main band, I only use it on occasion. With my metal band, I'll probably have it on for rhythm and take it off for leads.


----------



## purpledc (Jul 21, 2012)

genome said:


> Yeah, using an outboard EQ on the V is very effective. I think Metallica used to do that? I always wondered how they got such a scooped tone out of an amp that had mids on tap.
> 
> As for the boost, I really never found the use for one... the treble/presence/last two faders on the EQ were more than enough to get a tight attack when you turn the gain down a little enough and I definitely don't agree with the amp 'falling apart' when you crank the gain.
> 
> ...



Well the gain issue is really dependent on your pickups. The crunchlab petrucci uses has a very articulate sound to it so for that particular pickup sure the amp can handle higher gain settings. I also have a set of pickups that are made by sounds of sin that allowed me to dime the gain on the amp and it stayed together pretty good. But in general any amp starts to lose focus and tightness when the gain is turned up. Its just how tube amps work. 

Im not sure how much experience you have with boost pedals but I can tell you that they are not the same thing as turning up your treble and presence. Yes you can take and amp and turn up the treble presence and gain and somewhat get the same effect but the boost pedal gives you the ability to not have to run the presence high. IN many amps when you crank the presence and the treble you not only increase attack but you can also increase frequencies that arent so pleasant. 

I know my saying of different strokes for different folks certainly applies here too, but I really feel that if someone doesnt like or feels that a boost pedal is for lack of a better word pointless they are either doing something wrong with it or they are missinformed on how they work and what they do.


----------



## purpledc (Jul 21, 2012)

budda said:


> Active. I keep my TS around for the same reason you do - as little gain as I can possibly use on the amp while still getting a beefy tone. I use the TS for a bit of extra dirt and to tighten things up. With my main band, I only use it on occasion. With my metal band, I'll probably have it on for rhythm and take it off for leads.




Yeah for me my maxon is on 24/7. It just tightens your sound up like virgin prom queen. And nothing ive ever used gives the pick attack and definition of running a boost. I do like this one model on my M5 line 6 modeler. Its a blue compressor with treble feature and that thing really give a good tight attack as well.


----------



## Genome (Jul 21, 2012)

purpledc said:


> Well the gain issue is really dependent on your pickups. The crunchlab petrucci uses has a very articulate sound to it so for that particular pickup sure the amp can handle higher gain settings. I also have a set of pickups that are made by sounds of sin that allowed me to dime the gain on the amp and it stayed together pretty good. But in general any amp starts to lose focus and tightness when the gain is turned up. Its just how tube amps work.
> 
> Im not sure how much experience you have with boost pedals but I can tell you that they are not the same thing as turning up your treble and presence. Yes you can take and amp and turn up the treble presence and gain and somewhat get the same effect but the boost pedal gives you the ability to not have to run the presence high. IN many amps when you crank the presence and the treble you not only increase attack but you can also increase frequencies that arent so pleasant.
> 
> I know my saying of different strokes for different folks certainly applies here too, but I really feel that if someone doesnt like or feels that a boost pedal is for lack of a better word pointless they are either doing something wrong with it or they are missinformed on how they work and what they do.



Fair points, dude. I've just never felt the need to use one with it as the amp is as tight as a witch's cleft anyway. I've got a Peavey 6505 combo lying around and my Maxon is an absolute godsend for it for the reasons you've specfied, but I never really felt the necessity to stick a boost in front of of the Mark V.

The pickups used are a good point, though. My current main guitar had stock pickups in it that sounded very dull on the Mark V in comparison to the BKP's in my other guitar, and a boost pedal would've definitely done it a favour. But I've swapped them out for a CL/LF combo and it's made the world of difference.


----------



## purpledc (Jul 22, 2012)

genome said:


> Fair points, dude. I've just never felt the need to use one with it as the amp is as tight as a witch's cleft anyway. I've got a Peavey 6505 combo lying around and my Maxon is an absolute godsend for it for the reasons you've specfied, but I never really felt the necessity to stick a boost in front of of the Mark V.
> 
> The pickups used are a good point, though. My current main guitar had stock pickups in it that sounded very dull on the Mark V in comparison to the BKP's in my other guitar, and a boost pedal would've definitely done it a favour. But I've swapped them out for a CL/LF combo and it's made the world of difference.



How do you have your crunchlab set up? Ive heard some things about whether or not the bar pole piece should be closer to the neck or closer to the bridge. I have a CL in my korina carvin and the thing has a little too much twang to it and mine is set with the bar facing the neck. Im wondering if swapping it would tame that.


----------



## Genome (Jul 22, 2012)

I have it facing the neck, it's just a bit warmer and more defined. Towards the bridge you get more crunch and brightness.


----------



## viesczy (Jul 23, 2012)

I so wanted to like the Engl PB 1 & 2, just couldn't get a tone from them that I liked that justified the cost of them. I'm sure I'll also get ripped by the Engl fans, I don't think their build quality justifies their cost either. 

In less than 5 minutes dialing on a Road King II I had a tones on the Vintage and Modern that completley cut, crushed and roared. For the price, the building quality & the tones, I went with the Mesa and I could not be happier.

Buy what your ear is telling you sound the best. 

Derek


----------



## wlfers (Jul 23, 2012)

If you didn't like the first power ball, i'd figure you'd have tried a different amp instead of banking on the second version. To each their own, nobody is going to knock you for not liking it (I don't like the pbs myself).

There is a current thread on the Engl build quality right now


----------



## viesczy (Jul 24, 2012)

athawulf said:


> If you didn't like the first power ball, i'd figure you'd have tried a different amp instead of banking on the second version. To each their own, nobody is going to knock you for not liking it (I don't like the pbs myself).
> 
> There is a current thread on the Engl build quality right now




I didn't keep, sent them back within the return period. Just couldn't get the tones at all to tickle my ears and inspire me. 

My Road King II, even at low levels I have settings that sound stellar and I can't see parting with that ever.

Derek


----------

