# Gibson quality rant (pics heavy)



## WolleK (Feb 2, 2016)

Hey guys,
i ordered a Gibson Lzzy Hale Explorer for my 30th. anniversery this year. Got the guitar today, quality of it is... well , take a look at the pictures and decide youself.

Found following things (packed the guitar after 5 minutes into the package again)
1) Completly different colour on the front side of the headstock
2) broken nut on both sides
3) too much paint on the serial number, you can hardly read it
4) brown things all along the fretboard
5) brown paint/ things, leftovers of white paint on both side of transition neck/body
6) mistakes in the binding (see transition pictures)
7) paint faux on the back of neck
8) gap in binding
9) some chips in case

Gibson, c´mon, really?


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## Zado (Feb 2, 2016)

Does it sound nice at least?


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## WolleK (Feb 2, 2016)

It does sound good.


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## Zado (Feb 2, 2016)

WolleK said:


> It does sound good.



You know what they say, with Gibson "you pay for the sound". I've be quite pissed tho


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## novocaine (Feb 2, 2016)

Just to share since I have one of these as well. 

Mine came really white like your body is. It's probably as white as the headstock truss cover. But over time,the headstock turned yellow just like your headstock did. The body on mine has also mellowed into a pale yellow, albeit lighter than the headstock. 

I have another white Gibson, buckethead. That also aged to a vintage yellow with exact characteristics as this lzzy explorer with headstock more yellow than the body. 

This is a characteristic of the Gibson laquer I suppose. And I realize they age faster when kept in the case. I have the Gibson snow falcon as well but that did not age much at all, or maybe it's cos of the snow burst which is a different sort of white, I'm not sure. But I certainly think it's the laquer that ages not the paint. 

So it's a normal phenomenon. However, the rest of the defects on yours really need to be looked at. Mine came perfect.


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## WolleK (Feb 2, 2016)

novocaine said:


> Just to share since I have one of these as well.
> 
> Mine came really white like your body is. It's probably as white as the headstock truss cover. But over time,the headstock turned yellow just like your headstock did. The body on mine has also mellowed into a pale yellow, albeit lighter than the headstock.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your information. 

I would be okay if its a used guitar, but not for a brand new guitar. 
I know the laque is aging (just look at Hetfiels 84 Explorer, this thing is pure yellow) but then the whole thing should look like this, not only the front of the headstock. So my conclusion is, they have, next to their QC issue, problems with their laquer, I know that the white falcon V had the same brown spots.
Even my Harley Benton 84 Explorer didnt have this problems.


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## dhgrind (Feb 2, 2016)

Sorry you got a real lemon.

I had a similar experience with my Gibson bill kelliher sig explorer. Gibson is on my do-not EVER buy again list. their quality is absolute crap.


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## manu80 (Feb 2, 2016)

Not against you, but...When people will realize that Gibson is a brand that just live on its past fame and can't release some guitars better made than any Korean or indonesian maker, well...
Even some Indo are better finished.
It's a nice model but nowadays, you HAVE TO TEST any gibson you wanna buy. Too many differences from a model to another, no consistency unfortunately...
The only thing i find normal is the mass of paint on the serial. My friend had the same thing on his Shred V. 
For the rest it's just ....ty QC and production...
that's why I laugh when i hear people saying that Chinese or Korean Axes are bad...come on....
Get your money back !!!!!


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## max3000 (Feb 2, 2016)

It's a shame seeing this on a more expensive signature model.

That said, my Firebird was pretty much perfect out of the box.


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## Possessed (Feb 2, 2016)

You can see lots of jacksons with the similar nut issues as well


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## GraemeH (Feb 2, 2016)

It's their fret ends that get me. They just file them off in a straight line, no beveling or anything? Did the unions that control the factory protest against that or something? Because others in the same price range do it a lot better.


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## Andromalia (Feb 2, 2016)

Your guitar looks like it was a hanger in a shop under lighting for some time.


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## 1b4n3z (Feb 2, 2016)

I believe fretboards come in pre-fretted, so it's not certain how well unions control the outsourcee (?). However it's pretty much certain they don't have hold on Gibson 

My black 68 reissue (2002) is a display of not-a-fck-given mentality for the most part, but then my burst 68 reissue (2001) is very well made. It shouldn't be a matter of luck at that price point however*

* Didn't buy either of them new, condition was reflected on price


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## USMarine75 (Feb 2, 2016)

I bought a Gibson Robot V when they cancelled that product line. I think I paid around $800 new on closeout, so I can't really complain. But they had to send me 3 before I finally kept the least lemony of the bunch. The one I kept has cracked finish where the fretboard attaches to the neck. The rest were garbage QC nightmares...


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## WolleK (Feb 2, 2016)

manu80 said:


> Not against you, but...When people will realize that Gibson is a brand that just live on its past fame and can't release some guitars better made than any Korean or indonesian maker, well...
> Even some Indo are better finished.
> It's a nice model but nowadays, you HAVE TO TEST any gibson you wanna buy. Too many differences from a model to another, no consistency unfortunately...
> The only thing i find normal is the mass of paint on the serial. My friend had the same thing on his Shred V.
> ...



No, you are right. I should have tested it before. Doing the same mistakes with Gibson as in the past. You know, a bought a Gibson Flying V half year ago, this thing was flawless.. perfect out of the box, so i thought, hey, they got now their sh*** together, but again, lesson learned, you can not trust them. I mean, this thing cost more than 2000 Euro, its not entry level. Neverthelss, i will send it back today. 
But guys, honestly, how can you produce such a thing for so many bucks. Never heard anything / or experienced similar bad with other big brand names.


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## Andromalia (Feb 2, 2016)

I was lucky to not have any issue with mine, possibly because the place I bought them from are more stringent on checks (owning 3 gibsons, 2 new one used and zero issue)
I was actually eyeing the reduced price Lzzy hale there is on musicstore.de. (BEcause I like it but last year price was insane for an explorer)


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## cip 123 (Feb 2, 2016)

Glad you're sending it back, getting a new one or a refund?

On the topic of Gibson I've heard that the head or CEO is just a business man and not a very nice one. Treats the employees terribly so yea if they're being treated badly they're not gonna be pushed to to their best job. And the CEO could care less he just wants to sell. So it just goes round in a circle.


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## laxu (Feb 2, 2016)

GraemeH said:


> It's their fret ends that get me. They just file them off in a straight line, no beveling or anything? Did the unions that control the factory protest against that or something? Because others in the same price range do it a lot better.



If it's a bound fretboard it has those nibs of binding at the fret ends as seen in OPs pictures.

The whole chain failed on that guitar though. Gibson should not have let it leave the factory and the store should have checked it over quickly before sending it.

I also have no idea what Gibson is doing because it seems in Europe some of the largest music stores like Thomann and Music Store Köln are dropping them and selling their leftover stock cheap. So now is the best time to get a Gibson for us euro folk.


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## manu80 (Feb 2, 2016)

What i'm surprised of is that it has already yellowed.... That's quick for a recent guitar...


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## WolleK (Feb 2, 2016)

I get it exchanged with the promise of being checked by the guitar departmend before it leaves the store. If its again a lemon, or better- if it will have just one flaw again i will return it and get a refund.


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## Dawn of the Shred (Feb 2, 2016)

Man sorry you got a lemon. Last two Gibsons I've bought i had to send back the next day of getting them! Their QC is awful of late.


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## Bdtunn (Feb 2, 2016)

Sorry to hear! 
I played three identical LP's in a store one day. I was shocked by the differences between them be it quality and playability. They even let me set it up for my style and it was still night and day between them.


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## electriceye (Feb 2, 2016)

GraemeH said:


> It's their fret ends that get me. They just file them off in a straight line, no beveling or anything? Did the unions that control the factory protest against that or something? Because others in the same price range do it a lot better.



I agree. That fretwork (the nibs) is atrociously bad. 

OP, just so we have it straight, is that actual brown LINT in the paint??? 

It looks (to me) that the high and low E string slots were cut too close to the edges.

I can't imagine what a disappointment that must've been. I'd be really pissed. This should be labeled C stock, at best. I assume you're sending it back?


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## vilk (Feb 2, 2016)

I'd piss my poop!

I play an ESP copy of Gibson SG, and it's not for sale here in USA. So I always think, if I ever need to replace it I'll just grab a Gibson--it's probably the same. But I swear nearly every other Gibson NGD I read on here is spooky stuff. Makes me wonder if that's really a good idea.

But actually, a Gibson SG can be found at any guitar shop anywhere. It's really these mail-order sig guitars where you gotta roll the dice. I dunno if I'm brave enough to do something like that.


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## hardvalve (Feb 2, 2016)

Gibson is not a union company, yes their ceo is known to be a really bizarre guy making very questionable decisions. This guitar is awful for an expensive signature. It would be awful on a low end model. Gibson has the most inconsistent quality out there. Having to play several of the same model, to find one that is decent is unacceptable. People just pay for the name now, and their custom shop guitars are outrageously priced.


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## WolleK (Feb 2, 2016)

electriceye said:


> I agree. That fretwork (the nibs) is atrociously bad.
> 
> OP, just so we have it straight, is that actual brown LINT in the paint???
> 
> ...



Might be that they are slot wrong. I only had it 10 minutes out of the case. Took it out of the case, saw all the flaws, plugged it for one minute into my amp, plugged it out, took the cam, send the photos to the store, packed it back. 

I´m not disappointed, i´m more shocked how something likes this can leave the factory. I mean, its not only one flaw, its a amount of them, so nearly every department in the factory did something wrong. I mean, i didnt order a CHIBSON (i bet some of them have less flaws), i bought a original one.

Saw in another thread this days that people always bitch about Gibson QC since the 80´s and that they improve soooooooooo much since them... well here is the counterproof.

...and yes, there was brown in the paint. It wasnt dirt that you can rub off.


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## canuck brian (Feb 2, 2016)

hardvalve said:


> Gibson is not a union company, yes their ceo is known to be a really bizarre guy making very questionable decisions. This guitar is awful for an expensive signature. It would be awful on a low end model. Gibson has the most inconsistent quality out there. Having to play several of the same model, to find one that is decent is unacceptable. People just pay for the name now, and their custom shop guitars are outrageously priced.



Sadly their quality is consistent now - bad. It's the good ones that are the inconsistent anomalies. 

OP - just get a refund - the guitar you're going to receive comes from the same factory, made by the same hands that made a pretty hack guitar once already.


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## WolleK (Feb 3, 2016)

canuck brian said:


> Sadly their quality is consistent now - bad. It's the good ones that are the inconsistent anomalies.
> 
> OP - just get a refund - the guitar you're going to receive comes from the same factory, made by the same hands that made a pretty hack guitar once already.



Guess you are right but my GAS-syndrom is stronger than ever and i want that explorer so bad.... We will see the resulat of it in a few days, maybe happy NGD or not.


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## Aymara (Feb 3, 2016)

laxu said:


> I also have no idea what Gibson is doing because it seems in Europe some of the largest music stores like Thomann and Music Store Köln are dropping them and selling their leftover stock cheap.



The reason, why Thomann is no longer a Gibson dealer has a different reason ... Gibson changed their contracts for dealers and Thomann took the consequences out of this nonsense.

It seems Gibson's CEO is completely incompetent.

Regarding Gibson quality ... even my preferred little shop reported, that they had a horrible return rate in the last years ... this is one of the few shops, who send crap back to the manufacturer instead of selling it.

For potential Gibson customers I only have one recommendation: Try before you buy!

I bought a Les Paul Signature T in 2013 and it was the only Gibson LP I could find in three shops, that was really flawless!



WolleK said:


> Saw in another thread this days that people always bitch about Gibson QC since the 80´s and that they improve soooooooooo much since them... well here is the counterproof.



What these fanboys reported is complete nonsense ... Gibson has massive QC issues in the last few years. Above statement was a try to proof the opposite. The official Gibson forum is full of proof and my own experience is the same and it was confirmed by my dealer.


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## Floppystrings (Feb 3, 2016)

It took me about 6 minutes to find a Gibson with what seems like a flaw. It's a $6k guitar.







In person at a music store I could find a crooked bridge even faster, I saw several the last time I faced a small wall of Les Pauls. I was pretty amazed.


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## uni777 (Feb 3, 2016)

What do you think is wrong here?


Floppystrings said:


> It took me about 6 minutes to find a Gibson with what seems like a flaw. It's a $6k guitar.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Version_6 (Feb 3, 2016)

It's a Gibson. Those aren't flaws, they're 'features'. Or at least that's what the sycophants would have you believe. 

There's a reason I won't touch them with a 10 foot pole and yet I love them as the largest part of my moderate repair work is repairing busted Gibson headstocks and fret jobs.


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## Fathand (Feb 3, 2016)

That's really bad. Like someone said, looks like it was hanging in sunlit store window / place - if this was a new (and not a factory second) guitar... oh man. 

I usually defend Gibson when people go on rants about them, but this never should have left the factory like that.


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## Floppystrings (Feb 3, 2016)

uni777 said:


> What do you think is wrong here?



The tail piece looks crooked.

The next time you see a bunch of Gibson Les Pauls check out the bridge placement. It's pretty random.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Feb 3, 2016)

WolleK said:


> Saw in another thread this days that people always bitch about Gibson QC since the 80´s and that they improve soooooooooo much since them... well here is the counterproof.



People say that? I thought most people say Gibson between the mid '80s and early 2000's was their best years quality-wise?


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## Ape Factory (Feb 3, 2016)

Floppystrings said:


> It took me about 6 minutes to find a Gibson with what seems like a flaw. It's a $6k guitar.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You're assuming the guitar is perfectly parallel to the film plane and they're using a flat field lens with zero barrel or pincushion distortion. Could very well be parallax error creating a visual illusion the bridge isn't parallel.

Anyway, I'm no defender of Gibson, I can't stand their CEO. It's my opinion Henry J. is a true chode who's goal is to make Gibson a lifestyle choice, underpay his workers and overcharge his customers. I have an exceptional Gibson (unfortunately) but it'll be the last Gibson I own. Ironically, the first real dud guitar I played was a Gibson. An SG from the mid-2000's. Just horribly dead and heavy as lead for an SG. Speaking SG's here's Henry and his million dollar diamond studded SG.


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## Zado (Feb 3, 2016)

Imho real question is: do they sound so good/unique that one can overlook such issues? That's what you have to ask yourself


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## WolleK (Feb 3, 2016)

Zado said:


> Imho real question is: do they sound so good/unique that one can overlook such issues? That's what you have to ask yourself



None guitar with such issues can be so good that i would buy it. And you will never find so many flaws even on any entry big brand guitar such as Squier (they improved really with their classic vibe line), Epiphone nowadays (my Epi ES 333 is nearly perfect), Yamaha (any bad Pacifice 112, anyone?)... and so on.


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## Orzech (Feb 3, 2016)

If you were there: Custom Les Pauls shown at Musikmesse had finish issues as well (binding, similar to OP's guitar and too much clear coat kind of bumps)


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## WolleK (Feb 3, 2016)

Orzech said:


> If you were there: Custom Les Pauls shown at Musikmesse had finish issues as well (binding, similar to OP's guitar and too much clear coat kind of bumps)



No, haven´t been to Musikmesse last year, but i will visit their booth this year for a closer look. Shocking that even displayed guitars have issues.


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## MatthewK (Feb 3, 2016)

It's a bummer that this happens sometimes, but it's also tiring to see these threads always turn into a hyperbolic circle jerk about Gibson's QC.


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## Aymara (Feb 3, 2016)

Zado said:


> Imho real question is: do they sound so good/unique that one can overlook such issues?



In my case the answer is clearly NO, but it is still possible to find a flawless Gibson ... my LP SigT is the best example ... perfect craftmanship including Plek'ed frets, great playability and sound. Just what I was searching for.

With the "try before you buy" strategy you can become a happy Gibson customer, though it might require several tries.


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## canuck brian (Feb 3, 2016)

I've got a plethora of photos from both of their factory showrooms in Memphis and Nashville. They don't have reliable QC as half (at least 20 in each location) the guitars in their own building were displayed with notable issues and severe defects. Even their imported Epiphone stuff was hastily placed on the wall as one of the Matt Heafy models had the neck EMG installed upside down (funfact - that guitar was there 6 months later too with the pickup still upside down). 

Take a look at the factory tours of Jackson/Fender/PRS/Aristides/ESP etc and then find photos of the Gibson factory. If that doesn't change your mind, then i give up.

Its a shoddy company run by a egomaniac and staffed by abused workers.


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## WolleK (Feb 3, 2016)

MatthewK said:


> It's a bummer that this happens sometimes, but it's also tiring to see these threads always turn into a hyperbolic circle jerk about Gibson's QC.




I dont find it tiring. Its good that others are warned.


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## laxu (Feb 3, 2016)

Zado said:


> Imho real question is: do they sound so good/unique that one can overlook such issues? That's what you have to ask yourself



Credit where credit is due, Gibson has come up with several models that define the electric guitar as well as several that are just cool designs. Their production methods don't seem to be any different from other manufacturers so these quality issues are probably either the cause of a bad company culture (workers not paid enough, made to work too fast/hard/long and bad management) or just plain making too many guitars to give them all the proper attention.

Crooked bridges really shouldn't happen as they have automated drills and routers that do all the holes and cavities.

But it's not like you can't get the sounds of Gibson guitars out of anything else. Plenty of high quality Japanese copies as well as "inspired by" guitars available that sound as you'd expect from a LP. Same for all their other models. IMO for example Yamaha builds a better ES-335 style guitar.


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## rewihendrix (Feb 3, 2016)

Floppystrings said:


> The tail piece looks crooked.
> 
> The next time you see a bunch of Gibson Les Pauls check out the bridge placement. It's pretty random.



That tailpiece is not crooked.

The bridge is on an angle, as it is supposed to be.


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## Low Baller (Feb 3, 2016)

I am not saying you bought the guitar for this reason but many buy gibsons for the name. So as long as Gibson has those customers they can't do much wrong. Personally I have never been crazy about them they sound and look good but I just don't click with them I will take a schecter or a tele all day. I honestly like my banshee more than any Gibson I played. That's just me not saying it's better. I respect the company and do think they make great instruments but all these quality control issues doesn't live up to their legacy. I hope they make it right op it sucks waiting for a guitar than have to send it back.


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## InfinityCollision (Feb 3, 2016)

The _bridge_ is supposed to be at an angle, yes. The _tailpiece_ is not, and certainly not in rotation opposite to the bridge. I can't speak as to whether that's due to camera shenanigans or an accurate depiction of the guitar's construction, but I've seen such defects in person as well.



Aymara said:


> With the "try before you buy" strategy you can become a happy Gibson customer, though it might require several tries.


Here's the thing though: is the additional time and effort worthwhile? I wouldn't kick one out of bed, so to speak, if I happened to pick it up and discover that it's the Perfect Guitar&#8482;, but neither am I inclined to beat down doors chasing something with the Gibson name on it if I can expect my search to be complicated by QC issues above and beyond what I might already expect of a store's general negligence. This is not how one maintains or builds brand loyalty, and the competition's arguably tougher than it's ever been.


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## Spicypickles (Feb 4, 2016)

I don't think they're any worse than any other brand really, save PRS. Their stuff seems to always be on point. 


It's just that everyone likes to slag the US made, high dollar stuff, and the only time people really want to say anything about it is when something goes wrong. If everyone that had a stellar NGibsonGD made a thread about it, the QC issues that everyone else has would seem fewer and farther in between. IMO, of course.


Also, regarding the "I shouldn't have to play before I pay" comments; that is just super unwise on the whole. You should ALWAYS try stuff out before you buy; guitars are complete individuals. 


My local GC has a ....load of LP's on the wall, and they all play and sound awesome, apart from one studio. Out of the 40 that they have, those odds aren't bad. Again, IMO.


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## Aymara (Feb 4, 2016)

InfinityCollision said:


> is the additional time and effort worthwhile?



I think it depends, how much effort is needed. In my case the second shop was the perfect one, because they send back every Gibson, that has the slightest issues.



Spicypickles said:


> If everyone that had a stellar NGibsonGD made a thread about it, ...



Sites like My Les Paul have many NGD threads and many without problem reports too.


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## Edika (Feb 4, 2016)

To Spicypickles, as a non US citizen that has a stellar Jackson USA and a stellar Carvin USA I 'd have to say that is completely unfounded. I've also seen several NGD threads here about people saying they've had good Gibson experiences. 
However for no other USA, Japanese or Korean guitars have I seen more people, that have had personal experience with a variety of expensive brands, say try before you by for quality reasons and not personal taste reasons.
So it's not US product bashing, it's a specific company with bad QC. I don't have an extended personal experience with Gibson guitars, positive or negative. I did try a Gibson Explorer in a shop and it sounded and played good but thought the fit and finish didn't warrant 1200 Euros. I didn't play it that long to see if there were any big QC issues but I thought that the lacquer was really poorly applied on the neck and near the nut.


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## Zado (Feb 4, 2016)

> I don't think they're any worse than any other brand really, save PRS. Their stuff seems to always be on point.


Maybe I was just unlucky, but I've seen far more Gibson lemons than any other brands, especially at high prices. Last one was a 2016 LP in Silver Pearl I saw at Guitarguitar which was bad finished and had some weird scratches on the fretboard and faulty binding.


Spicypickles said:


> It's just that everyone likes to slag the US made



Oh yeah, the good old"let's bash USA" thing






 Come one man, you serious?


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## WolleK (Feb 4, 2016)

That was the official reply from the store... at least they are honest (i used the google translator for translation, so there might be some mistakes):



*´´We have now checked some guitars from the camp and actually all look the same.
The slightly yellowish discoloration on the headstock appears from Gibson wanted to be, because that is the same for all models from the camp. Likewise, the processing that should not be equated with German standards at Gibson and can. Minor inaccuracies are present in all and Gibson-typical.



These are the serial numbers partly not correctly read is quite simply the fact that in the production as much white color has been used so that it is opaque and thus the number was added.



We can send you a new guitar, it is technically in order to ensure a good play, a flawless cosmetic condition there is not, the model has also what we have now provided for you 2 smaller paint defects at the headstock and the neck - / body junction.



We can refund the purchase price to you of course.´´
*
( Guitar was bought at one of europe biggest stores)


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## WolleK (Feb 4, 2016)

Spicypickles said:


> It's just that everyone likes to slag the US made, high dollar stuff, and the only time people really want to say anything about it is when som



No, i don´t want slag us made, because i am half german/ half american (didnt know that i´m half american till i was 18, so excuse my bad english)... and people do enough NGD threads if the guitar is awesome.... i even posted a NGD about my Epiphone ES 333 which is really great.


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## Aymara (Feb 4, 2016)

WolleK said:


> Minor inaccuracies are present in all and Gibson-typical.



I myself wouldn't accept that at this price point and choose a different brand or model.

How will you decide?


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## WolleK (Feb 4, 2016)

Refund.

I wanted the explorer so badly , i could have been nr.9 in my explorer collection, but i cannot accept it with issues. Will better invest it into a MM Axis or a PRS.


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## Rawkmann (Feb 4, 2016)

WolleK said:


> Refund.
> 
> I wanted the explorer so badly , i could have been nr.9 in my explorer collection, but i cannot accept it with issues. Will better invest it into a MM Axis or a PRS.



After over 20 years of playing I'm sticking with PRS due to their insanely high standards of quality control. Same for MusicMan, I have yet to play a bad one. Gibson otoh... Gibson were the first guitars I lusted after as a new player but I've been burned by them too many times over the years.


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## Spicypickles (Feb 5, 2016)

I didn't mean like "everyone is picking on the USA", I just mean that Gibson being one of the biggest companies, they're a household name. I'm just betting their lemon to great ax ratio is the same as other major companies. I feel like their are plenty of Jackson .... ups in the Misha sig thread alone. ESP's custom shop was shipping out guitars made out of a completely different wood than the customer ordered, on more than one occasion (I've seen that personally)


They're popular to hate on just like Nickleback, because they are still successful, regardless of seeming popular opinion. 


I couldn't care less about Gibson, a nice guitar is a nice guitar. But like all guitars, IMO you should try them before you buy them.


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## Science_Penguin (Feb 5, 2016)

Spicypickles said:


> I didn't mean like "everyone is picking on the USA", I just mean that Gibson being one of the biggest companies, they're a household name. I'm just betting their lemon to great ax ratio is the same as other major companies. I feel like their are plenty of Jackson .... ups in the Misha sig thread alone. ESP's custom shop was shipping out guitars made out of a completely different wood than the customer ordered, on more than one occasion (I've seen that personally)
> 
> 
> They're popular to hate on just like Nickleback, because they are still successful, regardless of seeming popular opinion.
> ...



Well, by that logic, don't you think that American Fenders would get a lot of flack due to their immense popularity? I haven't heard nearly as many questions of "Is this guitar worth the money?" with Fender as I have with Gibson. Since that's another real big player in the top-dollar US world, I would think that if you're right about Gibson's "lemon to great ax ratio" being the same, I'd be hearing a lot more of that.


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## goldsteinat0r (Feb 5, 2016)

Honestly, that guitar looks like a return or a poorly packed display model that sat out for a long time. The couple times I've played a TRULY new Gibson (like, straight out of the box from the factory) they've been excellent. When they're allowed to sit anywhere they turn into what you've got. They're not as "hardy" as say, a Fender which you could basically throw against a wall and it would be like "meh." You have to play them and adjust them periodically. Does it play nicely?

Sucks either way, sorry OP.


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## Andromalia (Feb 5, 2016)

Spicypickles said:


> I didn't mean like "everyone is picking on the USA", I just mean that Gibson being one of the biggest companies, they're a household name. I'm just betting their lemon to great ax ratio is the same as other major companies.



Dunno, those stories don't seem to abound as much with, say, Fender, although the legendary 23 frets JAckson was funny.
And I4m saying that owning 3 perfectly good Gibsons, two of them pretty recent, and no Fender.


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## littleredguitars2 (Feb 5, 2016)

i've owned my fair share of gibsons over the years and i can honestly say the past few years have been awful. so many little mistakes. i was at guitar center with my father not long ago drooling over some PRS guitars and we come across your average les paul custom. my dad notices that the binding is all crap near the neck and you can see some of the glue they used. and all i could say was... thats gibson for ya. even $4k brand new guitars of theirs have serious QC issues


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## cubix (Feb 5, 2016)

Never in my life have I seen a perfectly made guitar, but this level of slack is just wrong for a company such as Gibson... It's hard to believe.


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## AkiraSpectrum (Feb 5, 2016)

Sorry to see this, especially on such an amazingly beautiful sig model.


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## WolleK (Feb 6, 2016)

goldsteinat0r said:


> Honestly, that guitar looks like a return or a poorly packed display model that sat out for a long time. The couple times I've played a TRULY new Gibson (like, straight out of the box from the factory) they've been excellent. When they're allowed to sit anywhere they turn into what you've got. They're not as "hardy" as say, a Fender which you could basically throw against a wall and it would be like "meh." You have to play them and adjust them periodically. Does it play nicely?
> 
> Sucks either way, sorry OP.



The guitar was new. It had even the funny glue smell of a new Gibson (does smell like Play-Doh for me). It came from one of europe biggest stores, so a reliable dealer. As i posted before, they searched in their warehouse for one without issues but couldn´t find one. All of them had discolouration of the headstock and painting flaws. 



Andromalia said:


> Dunno, those stories don't seem to abound as much with, say, Fender, although the legendary 23 frets JAckson was funny.
> And I4m saying that owning 3 perfectly good Gibsons, two of them pretty recent, and no Fender.



Yep, the 23 fret custom Jackson is still funny.


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## Aymara (Feb 6, 2016)

cubix said:


> Never in my life have I seen a perfectly made guitar, ...



Maybe have a look at Gretsch ... their Pro line and even the entry level Electromatics are of a pretty consistent quality. That might explain their growing popularity. When I bought my first Gretsch I had to travel to one of Germany's largest stores. Now even the small shop near my home town sells Gretsch.


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## GraemeH (Feb 6, 2016)

WolleK said:


> Yep, the 23 fret custom Jackson is still funny.




To be fair to Jackson, they paid back the missing fret to someone else so it all evens out.


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## Blue1970Cutlass (Feb 6, 2016)

GraemeH said:


> To be fair to Jackson, they paid back the missing fret to someone else so it all evens out.



I missed that one 

To OP - yeah, this guitar looks terrible - I currently own (and have owned) many guitars from Korea, India, Indonesia, Mexico, and China that have fewer cosmetic flaws than this Explorer... shame on Gibson 

TBH I don't buy into the "import chinese/indo guitars all suck" mantra, but I get it - if you pay 2x-4x more for a US-made guitar, you expect higher quality


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## WolleK (Feb 6, 2016)

GraemeH said:


> To be fair to Jackson, they paid back the missing fret to someone else so it all evens out.




Hahaha, seems i missed that thread.


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## Ape Factory (Feb 6, 2016)

laxu said:


> But it's not like you can't get the sounds of Gibson guitars out of anything else. Plenty of high quality Japanese copies as well as "inspired by" guitars available that sound as you'd expect from a LP. Same for all their other models. IMO for example Yamaha builds a better ES-335 style guitar.



There are many guitars which can sound like a particular Gibson. Nothing sounds like a Gibson is just utter nonsense the fanboys usually sprout on forums (no offense). You can grab two LP's off a rack and they'll sound completely different. Is one of them not a Gibson as a result? Does a Studio sound like a Historic R9? I have a PRS SC-58 which sounds like any other kick ass LP. Hell, I even had the Custom Buckers out of my R9 in it for a while. There is no special DNA used by the Gibson factory that miraculously protects the sound of their guitars from migrating to any other make. Just not true. There's a thread on the TGP site where a guy gathers a bunch of LP's and throws a wrap tail PRS SC in the mix. Well, the PRS "won" the LP contest.


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## Andromalia (Feb 6, 2016)

WolleK said:


> The guitar was new. It had even the funny glue smell of a new Gibson (does smell like Play-Doh for me). It came from one of europe biggest stores, so a reliable dealer. As i posted before, they searched in their warehouse for one without issues but couldn´t find one. All of them had discolouration of the headstock and painting flaws.



Was that musicstore.de ? They have one for sale at reduced price but do not advertise any defects.
Edit: looks like it's been sold or removed already. If thisd is someone from here we'll know soon enough. ^^


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## Aymara (Feb 6, 2016)

Andromalia said:


> Was that musicstore.de ?



Music Store doesn't have a Lzzy Hale Explorer listed currently. Even Thomann have it no longer listed.

The only German shop I could find having it listed is Music World Brilon.


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## WolleK (Feb 6, 2016)

Musicstore... seems they took it off after i posted them.


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## jamesfarrell (Feb 6, 2016)

All of my Jackson Dominions (4) are far superior to that as far as fit and finish. 2 of them are the DX2's made in Indonesia. 

I would buy an Fujigen or Edwards before I bought a Gibson. Their fit and and finish is disgusting. They obviously take NO PRIDE in their work. I would send that back.


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## WolleK (Feb 6, 2016)

Yep, i keep my money. Will invest it into a Axe-FX Ultra (saw one for 900 Euro... so even better deal than the explorer) as effect addition to the Kemper.


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## Andromalia (Feb 6, 2016)

Aymara said:


> Music Store doesn't have a Lzzy Hale Explorer listed currently. Even Thomann have it no longer listed.
> 
> The only German shop I could find having it listed is Music World Brilon.



They removed it today, look at their advert for Gibson sales there is one there.


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## BigViolin (Feb 6, 2016)

I just sold off my last modern Gibson, a 2010 R7 darkback that was an exeptional guitar in every way except the fretwork. I've been through quite a few historics. Amazing how hit or miss a top level guitar can be. If you find a good one they are the real deal but you have to like low frets which I don't. I finally found a great one but couldn't get on with how they use their plek.

It seems they use the plek not to get perfect fretwork but only as a means to speed production. Instead of starting with a level fretboard they use the plek to do the final leveling, taking WAY too much off the height of the fret and to add insult they don't recrown so you are left with low, flat topped frets that play like ass an don't intonate as well as they should.

I'll keep my 1980 Norlin standard that crushes 9 out 10 historics, other than that I'm done.

Bye Gibson.


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## Aymara (Feb 6, 2016)

Andromalia said:


> They removed it today, look at their advert for Gibson sales there is one there.



Yep, it seems they decided to sell the last ones in their shop only or they are sold out on that model.


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## Thanatopsis (Feb 7, 2016)

I have no clue who this Lizzy Hale person is, but that really is unacceptable for a new guitar. If I buy any product brand new, I expect it to be in perfect condition.


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## Aymara (Feb 7, 2016)

Thanatopsis said:


> I have no clue who this Lizzy Hale person is, ...



Check this out ...



... and have a closer look at her Explorer


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## guidothepimmp (Feb 7, 2016)

I have a single gibson, and quality wise, she is fine.. then again, i play3d it and gave it the once over before splashing out cash for it.

This upspike in qc issues is probably implicitly linked to buying online and unsighted. We dont know what music stores agenda are, for all we know, they could have received a whole stack of good guitars with a couple of lemons, the good ones get sold off with no probs, the lemons get sent through in the hope noone complains? Could be, either results in a discounted price, or a return... if it results in a sale, they still win... of course this all heresay, a possibility none the less. 

I have no doubt any mass produced guitar manufacturer has these issues. Some more than others... my only gripe is, at gibson price points, they should be stricter with what is allowed to leave the factory

Cool model by the way, didnt know it existed


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## Aymara (Feb 7, 2016)

Here a video for our frustrated German friend ... sorry folks, a German video, which also stated clearly, that the quality of this instrument is horrible like on a cheap China copy.



Interestingly I found this video posted in a long discussion about this guitar in the official Gibson forum, where most people seemed to be happy with it. It seems that Gibson delivered the crappy units mainly to Europe.

Lzzy Hale Explorer Owners Board - Gibson Guitar Board


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## ExtremophileElite (Feb 8, 2016)

Check out the bridge pickup / pickup ring:


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Feb 8, 2016)

^Dude, that's a feature. 

It's the Hendrix bridge pickup configuration. It's SUPPOSED to be like that. 


But seriously, holy ..... Sweetwater must secretly want to show off how bad the QC is getting.


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## Zado (Feb 8, 2016)

Aymara said:


> Interestingly I found this video posted in a long discussion about this guitar in the official Gibson forum, where most people seemed to be happy with it. It seems that Gibson delivered the crappy units mainly to Europe.


No surprise to that, Fender has been doing the same for decades



ExtremophileElite said:


> Check out the bridge pickup / pickup ring:


Man, guitars with slanted bridge humbuckers have existed for years, they're just cool and so 80's


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## Aymara (Feb 8, 2016)

Zado said:


> No surprise to that, Fender has been doing the same for decades



Not so with Gretsch, which might explain their growing popularity in Germany.


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## ExtremophileElite (Feb 8, 2016)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> ^Dude, that's a feature. It's the Hendrix bridge pickup configuration. It's SUPPOSED to be like that.





Zado said:


> No surprise to that, Fender has been doing the same for decades. Man, guitars with slanted bridge hum buckers have existed for years, they're just cool and so 80's



I was thinking the same thing...I'm aware that many guitars that have slanted pickups...But if you look at the other one they have in stock, it's completely straight. I can't imagine they do that for some guitars and not all....


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## High Plains Drifter (Feb 8, 2016)

ExtremophileElite said:


> I was thinking the same thing...I'm aware that many guitars that have slanted pickups...But if you look at the other one they have in stock, it's completely straight. I can't imagine they do that for some guitars and not all....



They were joking.


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## Aymara (Feb 9, 2016)

ExtremophileElite said:


> I can't imagine they do that for some guitars and not all....



That's why this is a perfect example for Gibson's horrible QC. And it's also a good example for the idiotic behavior of most shops. You will never find such lemons in my preferred shop, because they directly send them back to the manufacturer, but most shops don't care and hope to sell them anyway 

And that's why Gibson doesn't improve their QC ... the return rate is too low.

That's why I prefer a small shop, that checks every guitar and gives it a pro setup, which "monster shops" like Sweetwater can't do, because they would need hords of technicians to solve that task, when we see the amounts of guitars they order and sell. That's ten times the amount of a small shop or even more.

It's the customer that causes these problems, because he orders online and small shops die. My preferred shop solved that dilemma by founding a music school for kids ... shop at first floor, school at second floor, and the pupils (their parents) buy their first instruments or even more in this shop.


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## Fathand (Feb 9, 2016)

ExtremophileElite said:


> Check out the bridge pickup / pickup ring:



There's only so much margin of error to FU a pickup placement, after CNC has done the pu cavity + holes for the screws... but this proves it can be done!


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## Petar Bogdanov (Feb 9, 2016)

ExtremophileElite said:


> I was thinking the same thing...I'm aware that many guitars that have slanted pickups...But if you look at the other one they have in stock, it's completely straight. I can't imagine they do that for some guitars and not all....



They've taken a hint from Google and are A/B testing the pickup slant. Why do you think they only have two in stock?


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## Edika (Feb 9, 2016)

^ Does this mean this is a sneak peak on a new FF Gibson guitar? 

I invoke the god of mockups to give us a glimpse of this glorious future!


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## Spicypickles (Feb 9, 2016)

and here I was, trying to give them the benefit of the doubt.


Are all of sweetwaters pictures genuine, or are some photoshops?


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## craigny (Feb 10, 2016)

Andromalia said:


> Your guitar looks like it was a hanger in a shop under lighting for some time.



I was thinking the same....the downfall of the Gibson Nitro finishes. (although I do love the yellowing of the white). It looks like it was exposed to some light for a time. My local shop wraps the rubber on the hangers that display the Custom shop models. I wouldn't think that that model would be on display in the store but you never know...I get your frustration though... i'd be ok with that after owning the guitar for a number of years, but I want to do it lol....sucks to hear.


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## Rachmaninoff (Feb 10, 2016)

Aymara said:


> That's why I prefer a small shop, that checks every guitar and gives it a pro setup



Same here.


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## asher (Feb 10, 2016)

Spicypickles said:


> and here I was, trying to give them the benefit of the doubt.
> 
> 
> Are all of sweetwaters pictures genuine, or are some photoshops?



AFAIK they're all 100% genuine.


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## JD27 (Feb 10, 2016)

Spicypickles said:


> and here I was, trying to give them the benefit of the doubt.
> 
> 
> Are all of sweetwaters pictures genuine, or are some photoshops?



Unfortunately, that guitar is listed on the Sweetwater site right now. Good thing they have a good return policy, that thing won't last long in the wild. They need to take it out back and give it the "Old Yeller" treatment.


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## pahulkster (Feb 11, 2016)

So much for the 55 point evaluation. I love my Gibson but wtf is that.


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## Spicypickles (Feb 11, 2016)

Someone may be able to get a hugely discounted price on that, then just fix the rout. The rings should cover any evidence.


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## tedtan (Feb 11, 2016)

pahulkster said:


> So much for the 55 point evaluation. I love my Gibson but wtf is that.



I think Sweetwater's inspection comes after you buy and before they ship it out to you, not before they put it up for sale. I'd like to have some inside info on how this one fares with their inspection, but I'm sure we won't hear anything unless someone on this site buys it.


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