# Who teaches?



## distressed_romeo (Jan 21, 2007)

Who teaches guitar here? Any tips, anecdotes or amusing stories to share?

Personally, I've taught lessons in my free time since I got to university (about 2.5 years ago now). My first two students were 'difficult' to say the least...the first was middle-aged Indian guy who'd never actually listened to any western music in his life and never showed up to lessons. He quit when he realised one hour-long lesson every other week wasn't going to turn him into a virtuoso... The second was an evangelical Christian who came to each lesson with a hymn book (full of slash chords from piano scores that I would have to unravel for him) and kept trying to get me to come to all his Xtian union meetings. Mercifully he didn't last long either.
The next few were better...one of my friends who was into a lot of classic rock stuff was interested, and although he had virtually no technical or theoretical background, was really dedicated and ended up progressing at a decent rate until he ended up having to stop due to lack of funds. The next guy was a King Crimson fanatic, who ended up making a lot of progress, but ended up leaving uni before I could get into more advanced stuff with him.
Actually, the best student I've ever taught was a 14 year old Belgian girl (the daughter of one of my dad's co-workers) who'd already had six years of classical guitar and wanted to start electric. I wasn't quite sure what to expect, as I had no idea about her level of maturity, or musical experience, but she ended up working really hard and improving a lot within the few months she was studying with me.

Anyone else?


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## garcia3441 (Jan 21, 2007)

I don't teach for the same reason I'm not a doctor. I don't have any patients.                                











Well I thought it was funny.


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## DDDorian (Jan 21, 2007)

I teach occasionally, usually to kids just picking up the guitar who wanna learn Green Day songs or whatever. I'm kinda hesitant about teaching nowadays though as I've realised how retarded most of my techniques are and that I shuldn't be passing them on. Still, I enjoy it a hell of a lot, and the more I can convince someone I'm a decent player by talking and not actually playing, the more chance there is of them actually believing me, heh.


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## MetalMike (Jan 21, 2007)

I had an evangelical Christian student also. Mine was a bit wacky and was convinced the rapture was bound to happen on 6/6/06.  

I catergorize my students. The best being the incredibly dedicated teenagers and the older 'now that I have extra time I wanna rip' type of guys and the worst being the kids whose parents force them into a 'hobby'. Let's not forget the dudes who want to play John Mayer songs to get girls.


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## distressed_romeo (Jan 21, 2007)

I can kinda understand how frustrating it must be for the young kids whose parents are forcing them to do it because they think it's 'constructive'; there's nothing worse than not being allowed to enjoy your free time because your parents think you should be bettering yourself.
The kind of people I have zero patience for are the ones who come in thinking I'm going to show them some magic secret that'll turn them into John Petrucci over night and give up when it doesn't happen in a week, and the arrogant morons (predominantly teenage boys who had a few female 'fans' at school) who refuse to learn anything or practice anything that doesn't come immediately to them, and yet seem convinced that they're the second coming of Paganini.


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## DDDorian (Jan 21, 2007)

^^Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. You can totally tell some kids are only there because their parents gave them the choice of playing guitar or playing recorder or something so they chose guitar and just want it to end. I generally go pretty easy on kids like that and just teach them powerchord riffs until they either stop showing up or start to enjoy themselves.

I had one kid literally say to me once "This song is impossible, since my last lesson I must have practiced it, like, FOUR times and I STILL can't play it!". Once I realised that he wasn't interested in bettering himself and just wanted to seem cool to his friends I taught him the drop-D riff to that "shove it" song by Deftones and a week later he deciced that he no longer needed a teacher Can't say it wasn't a relief.


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## distressed_romeo (Jan 21, 2007)

I had one guy whom I tried to teach the riff to 'High and Dry' by Radiohead to. As you probably know, it's not a challenging song...it's pretty simple strumming patterns, and octaves ringing against open strings. He spent ten minutes stumbling through it, totally unable to find the downbeat, and at the end of the lesson looked really pleased with himself and said, 'Yeah, I think I'm getting to be a pretty good rhythm guitarist'... 

I wouldn't have a problem with him not immediately getting the riff, but arrogance like that drives me mad...


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## Ibanez_Dave (Jan 21, 2007)

I have 4 students that I teach and I really enjoy it. Its great because my own playing has improved because of having to analyze the most minor details & mechanics of playing. Plus theres just a ton of cool stuff out there to learn, so Im never at a loss for a lesson plan or musical example to show someone. 

2 of my students are little kids (8 & 10), absolute beginners, but so far they have been very receptive and are actually interested in being at their lesson. Plus they actually practice. I show them all the basic beginner stuff, plus I stress proper technique & consistent practice. And each week at the end of their lessons, I show them some cool rip-your-head-off stuff to give them an idea of what they can do if they really practice their basics.

The other 2 students are adults, one who is into folk & roots music and looking to expand their chord repertoire, the other is into blues & classic rock and is getting back into playing after a long hiatus. Theyre both also good students because they know what they want to learn and most of the time at the end of our lessons we end up jamming.

One of the main things I try to stress to all my students is that playing guitar is an absolute riot. I also make sure they are learning stuff they really want to learn. Plus I try to not do some of the things my teachers did. I had one teacher who was a huge Beatles fan and would try to cram them down my throat every chance he could get. He would get offended sometimes if I wasnt into one of their songs. Plus, like D_Rs student, he was a real hardcore born again Christian type who would always start spouting off about scriptures and whatnot. Then there was the shredder dude who I took lessons from for a very short time. He would chainsmoke and spend nearly the entire lesson ripping, then throw me a tab at the end and say Here ya go, learn this. No discussion of technique or little pointers about how to more efficiently hold the pick to speedpick or sweep. Just a lot of Look at me, duuuuude kinda stuff. So between those 2 guys, I know what not to do.

Im hoping to add some more students soon.


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## distressed_romeo (Jan 21, 2007)

Having teachers like the ones you just described could easily put a young kid off playing for life, which is really sad. I've had some students in the past who've already had several years of lessons, and it's pretty clear they've been ripped, as they haven't been shown even the most basic fundementals.


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## Mastodon (Jan 21, 2007)

I really want to be able to teach, but I don't feel like I would have the right to since I don't really know all that much.

Though I read something last week that said something along the lines of "so long as you know one thing that the other person dosn't, you can be a teacher, and so long as you continue to know one more thing that they do not you will always have something else to teach them."


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## distressed_romeo (Jan 21, 2007)

Mastodon said:


> I really want to be able to teach, but I don't feel like I would have the right to since I don't really know all that much.
> 
> Though I read something last week that said something along the lines of "so long as you know one thing that the other person dosn't, you can be a teacher, and so long as you continue to know one more thing that they do not you will always have something else to teach them."



Good advice. Provided you make clear what your qualifications are, so people know what they're paying for, there's no reason you couldn't make a few bucks teaching beginners in your free time.


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## Durero (Jan 21, 2007)

Teaching private guitar lessons has been my full-time job since 1990. I'd definitely say the no.1 requirement is patience (or patients right Mike J?  ) and lots of it.

The kids who are being sent to lessons unwillingly by their parents are definitely the worst. 

In my early days of teaching I had one young boy (8 year old I think) come in who seemed very nervous and shy. So I did what I always do - try to be very casual and encouraging, and a little bit jokey & goofy so the kids can relax and not worry about me being some big stern authority figure.

So after about a month this kid totally has me figured out as a big friendly softy, and he truly doesn't give a shit about learning guitar (I think it was his mom's idea) and he begins to spend each lesson testing my boundaries and seeing how much of an annoying little brat he can be to see how I will react.

Now I'm pretty strict about not raising my voice or even being negative, so I start to use him as a test of my own patience and tolerance of bratty behavior. I'd always offer to help him with his playing & practicing, but if he refused I wouldn't push him. I'd quietly sit there and let him do whatever he wanted, as long as he didn't touch my guitar. It was funny sometimes watching him stew in his own boredom, but many times he'd be so annoying it was all I could do to resist the urge to smack him.

I knew that I could stop his lessons at any point, but I wanted to see how far he would go, and how much I could take. He lasted till the end of the school year and inadvertently provided me with a thorough education on negative child behavior. Of course, the next fall when school started again I just 'happened' to have a 'completely full' schedule when his mom enquired about further lessons 

Since then I've had no problems spotting the ones who aren't really into it, and if they don't respond to my best balance of lavish encouragement with a touch of stern discipline when needed, then I send them on their way - which fortunately is rarely necessary. I've been pleasantly surprised how often kids who seem to be hopelessly disinterested somehow find some music worth putting a little effort into.



One of my favorite teaching experiences was with a guy in his mid or late 40's who loved electric blues, only ever listened to blues, and wanted me to help him improve his blues playing. I emphasized right up front before his first lesson that classical guitar and electric rock & metal were my main things, but I'd be happy to show him all I knew about blues.

When he started his technique was pretty clumsy & horrible, and he had no idea about basic counting, phrasing, scale/chord relations or anything like that. So I had a lot of work to do with him to clean up his picking & fretting techniques, and a lot of explaining of what a pentatonic scale is (which he had been playing in that 'everybody's favorite pentatonic box' shape for years) and why certain notes would blend with the chords and others would stick out. We also worked a lot on counting, and being aware of on-beat / off-beat playing and how to vary the rhythm to keep his phrases interesting.

He really took to everything I showed him, as long as it was directly related to blues. Every once in a while I'd try to offer something else like the major-scale modes and 3 note-per-string patterns, but he'd just say 'that's too jazz' and go back to his pentatonic boxes (of which he quickly learned all 5 and was getting pretty handy at zooming around the neck.)

After exactly 1 year of weekly lessons, I realized that I'd spent his entire previous lesson just jamming with him, marveling at his mature and tasty blues phrasing (which was much better than mine), and telling him that he was doing great. I knew I had nothing at all more to show him that he would be interested in enough to use. 

So the next week I told him that this would be his last lesson with me, I gave him the number of a teacher I had studied with who I thought could take him a little further, but I said that what I thought he needed the most was to just get out and jam with people and get a band going. We had another great jam and at the end of the lesson he thanked me, shook my hand, and gave me one of the happiest and deeply respectful smiles I've ever seen - like I'd just handed him a nobel-prize or something. 

I never saw him again, but the tremendous feeling of satisfaction that I felt from that experience has stayed with me. It has strongly reinforced my desire to teach to the best of my ability, and to not hesitate to recommend that a student switch when they could be studying with another teacher better suited to their interests.


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## garcia3441 (Jan 21, 2007)

Durero said:


> (or patients right Mike J?  ) and lots of it.



Patients.......if I tried to teach I would provide plenty of them.


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## Mastodon (Jan 21, 2007)

Wow, that's an awesome story Durero.


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## Durero (Jan 21, 2007)

^ hey thanks man.
One last thought to add to the 'blues story' is that I've noticed that every time I do pass along a student to another teacher, it really builds a working relationship with that teacher, and I often end up getting more referrals back from them than I've given.


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## distressed_romeo (Jan 21, 2007)

Durero, that's exactly the sort of relationship I'd like to cultivate with my students! I expect the lessons you learnt from that first little prick will make you a great parent...

Isn't it much easier when someone comes in with a clear set of interests to work with? The first thing I usually ask prospective students is 'what are you into', and it's usually the ones who immediately real a long list of music they like and areas they're interested in studying who do well, whereas the ones who don't really listen to any music actively tend to lose interest quickly.
It's like what Andrew Marvell said after teaching some creative writing seminars; 'How do these people expect to write a book if they've never read one?'

It's a lot of fun introducing students, especially young ones, to new music and seeing them hear something they really connect with for the first time. I usually end each lesson with playing them some new piece of music from an artist they're not likely to have heard before.


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## Durero (Jan 21, 2007)

distressed_romeo said:


> I wouldn't have a problem with him not immediately getting the riff, but arrogance like that drives me mad...


 That's a familiar scenario!
I often feel this inner tension in a situation like that - like I want so badly to be able to actually _teach_ them, but if I tell them how horribly they're massacring this riff they're trying, and how sloppy and weak their technique is, and that they obviously have no clue as to where the beat is as they're playing, I'm afraid of completely shattering their self-esteem.

There are some little things that have been helpful to me with a current teenage boy student who very much fits the description. As soon as he's played something badly, and he's about to give that self-satisfied "damn I rock!" face, I quickly insist that he repeat section which was worst and play it slowly and with the right rhythm. Of course, he usually can't get the rhythm right even though he's hitting the right frets, so I keep pushing him to repeat it slowly. Eventually it sinks in that he can't actually play it as well as he thought, but I'm careful to keep my criticism detailed and focussed on the music, and not to give him much chance to take it personally.

After about 4 months of this type of thing he's a little more humble now when he comes in.  
(thank god)


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## distressed_romeo (Jan 21, 2007)

Durero said:


> That's a familiar scenario!
> I often feel this inner tension in a situation like that - like I want so badly to be able to actually _teach_ them, but if I tell them how horribly they're massacring this riff they're trying, and how sloppy and weak their technique is, and that they obviously have no clue as to where the beat is as they're playing, I'm afraid of completely shattering their self-esteem.
> 
> There are some little things that have been helpful to me with a current teenage boy student who very much fits the description. As soon as he's played something badly, and he's about to give that self-satisfied "damn I rock!" face, I quickly insist that he repeat section which was worst and play it slowly and with the right rhythm. Of course, he usually can't get the rhythm right even though he's hitting the right frets, so I keep pushing him to repeat it slowly. Eventually it sinks in that he can't actually play it as well as he thought, but I'm careful to keep my criticism detailed and focussed on the music, and not to give him much chance to take it personally.
> ...



Yeah, obviously you don't want to humiliate people, but at the same time, if there's a weakness in their playing, it's your job to improve it.

There are various horror-stories about Segovia taking masterclasses and going out of his way to humiliate the students who were called up on stage to play with him. On the flipside, I saw a programme on Performance a couple of months ago where Daniel Barenboim sat down with a group of young concert pianists, listened to each of them play through a different Beethoven sonata, and then went through it with them. There was one player who was noticeably weaker than the others (to be fair, he was three years younger, which means he'd had three years less training), and yet when Barenboim helped him break down the piece he'd just played, every bit of advice or criticism was phrased in a complimentary, productive way; there was no hint of ego or spite in his approach.

I'm pretty sure I know which approach will get the best results...


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## Durero (Jan 21, 2007)

distressed_romeo said:


> I expect the lessons you learnt from that first little prick will make you a great parent...


That's really a nice complement my friend, thanks. 




distressed_romeo said:


> Isn't it much easier when someone comes in with a clear set of interests to work with? The first thing I usually ask prospective students is 'what are you into', and it's usually the ones who immediately real a long list of music they like and areas they're interested in studying who do well, whereas the ones who don't really listen to any music actively tend to lose interest quickly.
> It's like what Andrew Marvell said after teaching some creative writing seminars; 'How do these people expect to write a book if they've never read one?'


Absolutely! Couldn't have said it better. "What're you into?" is like my mantra - I ask new students on the phone when setting up the first lesson, again at the lesson, and again and again until I build up a reasonable impression of their tastes. The motivation can certainly be very high when you're helping them learn one of their favorite songs or pieces. 

(I'd feel sorry for my students if I was the kind of teacher who only imposed my tastes on them without listening to theirs (like Ibanez Dave described.) They'd be stuck playing Meshuggah, Balinese Gamelan, Avante-Garde stuff like Ligeti, Leo Brouwer classical pieces, Bartok, Indian classical - I'd be bankrupt in a month!)




distressed_romeo said:


> It's a lot of fun introducing students, especially young ones, to new music and seeing them hear something they really connect with for the first time. I usually end each lesson with playing them some new piece of music from an artist they're not likely to have heard before.


I've been delighted at how often this goes the other way too! Quite a few of my favorite bands and albums have been introduced to me by a student. (I haven't had television or radio for many years so I don't get exposed to much otherwise - with the relatively recent exception of reading this forum. )

But thanks for reminding me of this (introducing music to students.) I used to do quite a bit of that, but much less lately. As you say, for the younger ones especially, it can really open up their minds and ears.


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## Nick1 (Jan 21, 2007)

Ive been teaching since the end of my Freshman year in High School. Thats 1998ish. And Ive got students ALL over the place. Some are total beginners others have been playing 30+ years. I love it!


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## Durero (Jan 21, 2007)

Nick1 said:


> Ive been teaching since the end of my Freshman year in High School. Thats 1998ish. And Ive got students ALL over the place. Some are total beginners others have been playing 30+ years. I love it!


Big +1. 
Variety certainly keeps it fresh, interesting, and enjoyable.

My first 7 years of teaching were in the suburbs where I grew up. I didn't realize how 'homogenous' it was. There was very little variety - mostly teenage boys, a few teenage girls, some younger kids sent by their parets, and a few others not falling into these categories.

But when I began teaching in Vancouver (the local 'big city') in 1997 I was really happy at the huge variety of students. I can't really generalize about them at all, they're all ages, abilities, and interests. As you say - I love it!


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## distressed_romeo (Jan 21, 2007)

Durero said:


> That's really a nice complement my friend, thanks.
> 
> Absolutely! Couldn't have said it better. "What're you into?" is like my mantra - I ask new students on the phone when setting up the first lesson, again at the lesson, and again and again until I build up a reasonable impression of their tastes. The motivation can certainly be very high when you're helping them learn one of their favorite songs or pieces.
> 
> ...



Hey, no problem!

One thing you do have to be really careful of, especially with young students, is giving them stuff that's just going to intimidate rather than inspire them. For instance, if I've got a young kid who's showing a burgeoning interest in neo-classical-style soloing having watched me play something like that, then I'd start him off with Richie Blackmore and Uli John Roth rather than Rusty Cooley or George Bellas. One practical upshot of this is that they get a better understanding of the instrument's history as you gradually expose them to more and more obscure stuff, as I find that a lot of younger players tend not to have heard anything other than music that was recorded within the last five years (not necessarily their fault...I blame MTV).



Durero said:


> Big +1.
> Variety certainly keeps it fresh, interesting, and enjoyable.
> 
> My first 7 years of teaching were in the suburbs where I grew up. I didn't realize how 'homogenous' it was. There was very little variety - mostly teenage boys, a few teenage girls, some younger kids sent by their parets, and a few others not falling into these categories.
> ...



One of the things I'm most looking forward to about living in London is getting a permenant teaching job off the ground, as I'm pretty sure that I'd like that to be my main source of income.


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## Durero (Jan 21, 2007)

distressed_romeo said:


> Yeah, obviously you don't want to humiliate people, but at the same time, if there's a weakness in their playing, it's your job to improve it.
> 
> There are various horror-stories about Segovia taking masterclasses and going out of his way to humiliate the students who were called up on stage to play with him. On the flipside, I saw a programme on Performance a couple of months ago where Daniel Barenboim sat down with a group of young concert pianists, listened to each of them play through a different Beethoven sonata, and then went through it with them. There was one player who was noticeably weaker than the others (to be fair, he was three years younger, which means he'd had three years less training), and yet when Barenboim helped him break down the piece he'd just played, every bit of advice or criticism was phrased in a complimentary, productive way; there was no hint of ego or spite in his approach.
> 
> I'm pretty sure I know which approach will get the best results...


Great post - I absolutely agree  



I think it's kind of funny about teaching music - because it's a performing art, you can't just explain it to someone (like explaining physics or math or something.) It's like you can only give guidance about what to work on, what to avoid, and ways of understanding what they're trying to do.

While this is very helpful, you can't actually do any practicing for them. So in the end, every single bit of skill a student acquires is due to their own work. If you're a good teacher, you can provide them with a great & detailed map of how to get where they want to go, but you can't take even a single step for them along that path.

This probably all sounds pretty obvious, but thinking about it really helps me to be respectful and encouraging to students, and to get inspiration from their progress.


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## distressed_romeo (Jan 22, 2007)

Durero said:


> Great post - I absolutely agree
> 
> 
> 
> ...




All totally true. I like the old quote from Robert Fripp; 'A good student is self-taught with the aid of a teacher'.

I think it's kinda sad how so many people rely on having information spoonfed to them by teachers, TV or the internet. People are slowly but surely losing the ability to explore and learn for themselves. It's like a said earlier about people who expect me to show them some 'holy grail' of technique to give them instant chops.

Has anyone seen that advert for those Tony Burnett instructional things in the guitar magazines where he talks about giving you 'shortcuts' to turn you into a maestro overnight? Those adverts verge on being insulting to people's intelligence if there weren't so many who are looking for that sort of quick fix, and are going to spend an obscene amount of money on that stuff.

One of the fascinating things about that Barenboim seminar was that none of the advice he gave was about the mechanical aspects of playing; it was all about helping the younger pianist get inside the emotional aspects of the piece, and the stories each theme was telling.


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## DDDorian (Jan 22, 2007)

Great thread! So much has been said that I totally agree with, and some cool stories have been shared.

The closest I've ever had to a guitar teacher was my high-school music teacher. Words could not describe the hopelessness of this guy. He could barely stumble through his Clapton licks, yet he had the gall to teach "advanced classical repertoire" after school. He'd charge $50 for an hour lesson, in which the student came to his house and played to themselves while he sat and watched TV or ate a meal. He'd punish every class in every grade making them write lines all lesson if he even suspected one of us of breaking or stealing something, which, considering that my class was preparing for finishing exams, was extremely irresponsible. He once made us watch "The Power Of One" for a week with absolutely no justification for doing so, we later found out it was because he lost his syllabus and didn't know what else to do. He taught one theory lesson to my class in two years, when the principal was inspecting. Any assessment in our final year that involved composition, aural skills or musicology he just skipped and made up marks for every student, which almost failed our entire class when he was found out. He'd send us to the library and tell us to "LOOK FOR TABS!" when he wanted to finish his lunch. I'm pretty sure the lousy bastard even stole my tuner.

*rant over*

As much as I love teaching, I think I'm motivated just as much by knowing that for every student someone like me teaches, that's one less student that has to endure a clueless, indifferent tool like the teacher I had to put up with.

I think the point I really try to stress is that, regardless of what someone's tastes might be right now, the ability to play and understand music is something that will never go away. I teach mostly kids, so when some teenager with a floppy fringe wearing sloppily-applied eyeliner comes in I try to explain to them that in five years they could very well hate the kind of music they listen to now, but that if they remain open to music as a whole without worrying about whether it fits their current tastes or is trendy with their friends that they'll develop skills that will last with them for the rest of their life.


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## distressed_romeo (Jan 22, 2007)

DDDorian said:


> Great thread! So much has been said that I totally agree with, and some cool stories have been shared.
> 
> The closest I've ever had to a guitar teacher was my high-school music teacher. Words could not describe the hopelessness of this guy. He could barely stumble through his Clapton licks, yet he had the gall to teach "advanced classical repertoire" after school. He'd charge $50 for an hour lesson, in which the student came to his house and played to themselves while he sat and watched TV or ate a meal. He'd punish every class in every grade making them write lines all lesson if he even suspected one of us of breaking or stealing something, which, considering that my class was preparing for finishing exams, was extremely irresponsible. He once made us watch "The Power Of One" for a week with absolutely no justification for doing so, we later found out it was because he lost his syllabus and didn't know what else to do. He taught one theory lesson to my class in two years, when the principal was inspecting. Any assessment in our final year that involved composition, aural skills or musicology he just skipped and made up marks for every student, which almost failed our entire class when he was found out. He'd send us to the library and tell us to "LOOK FOR TABS!" when he wanted to finish his lunch. I'm pretty sure the lousy bastard even stole my tuner.
> 
> ...



I had a music teacher like that in my AS year...he had absolutely no interest in teaching anymore, as he was leaving at the end of the year, and used to just give me and the other student some photocopied notes and then go play his piano for the rest of the lesson. The guy was a concert pianist, and I think he really resented having to teach on the side.

It's true...that's why I was talking earlier about introducing students to the history of music from all over the world, and all the stuff that came before whatever the trend-of-the-week is. Even if they don't like it, at least they'll have _heard_ it.

This thread has quickly turned into one of the best ones we've had in a while!


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## Durero (Jan 22, 2007)

distressed_romeo said:


> One thing you do have to be really careful of, especially with young students, is giving them stuff that's just going to intimidate rather than inspire them. For instance, if I've got a young kid who's showing a burgeoning interest in neo-classical-style soloing having watched me play something like that, then I'd start him off with Richie Blackmore and Uli John Roth rather than Rusty Cooley or George Bellas. One practical upshot of this is that they get a better understanding of the instrument's history as you gradually expose them to more and more obscure stuff, as I find that a lot of younger players tend not to have heard anything other than music that was recorded within the last five years (not necessarily their fault...I blame MTV).


Great point again. (I'm getting tired of agreeing with you so much! j/k )
I've had to really watch myself on this issue, especially when I was in the university music program where the norm is to constantly take on pieces which are way above your current level, and work like a demon to get them down before exams. I try to remind myself that just because I believe the student can handle something, it doesn't help if they don't think they can, and can lead to much frustration.

Helping people gain a historical perspective to their favorite stuff is excellent as well. 




distressed_romeo said:


> One of the things I'm most looking forward to about living in London is getting a permenant teaching job off the ground, as I'm pretty sure that I'd like that to be my main source of income.


Go for it man! I'm sure you're an excellent teacher.

I don't know how it is in London, but if it's anything like here then I'd recommend planing for a build-up of a year or two. It may take that long to get a new teaching practice established to the point where you can rely on it for your entire income. I've always done the majority of my lessons at music stores and community centers. They'll take a cut of your earnings, but it's usually much much easier to keep a full schedule going as people naturally go to such places looking for lessons. Having to advertise to get students to teach at home can be time consuming and expensive.

Wish you all the best with that!


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## jakeskylyr (Jan 22, 2007)

Well, I'm a full time teacher myself and you'd THINK I'd have a lot of cool stories to share. Considering all the people I've seen and taught, I don't have all that much outside the norm really.

The coolest is probably my 10 year old student. He's been playing since he was 6 or 7, and I've been teaching him for going on two years. The kid is very focused and disciplined. He has that naturalness that you need as a player, that everyone always told me I had. I've been teaching him, Satch, Vai, Johnson, etc., in addition to lots of other things. The teacher he USED to have before me, just taught out of a Mel Bay book. In 2 years, he only learned ONE song, "Sweet Child O Mine". His dad wanted to find someone who could relate to an 8 year old guitarist that practiced on his own without being told. Since I used to be THAT kid, I was apparently the right guy for the job.

BTW, his dad put up some of his vids:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVxQpLrsZ3Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B92-JrpJyqY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwHGmJ1HmT0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yO7fw8qste8

(note the progression of guitars....from an SG, to a JS100, to a JS1000 ...yeah there is a Martin in there too!)

I also have a few students that have progressed extremely well for the length of teaching. One bassist who is 13, playing for a year, and we just zip through stuff now. He can play stuff like Zeppelin, Beatles, Sabbath pretty much right on. The progressive stuff is next on the agenda 

I have one other guitarist who has really stepped up just in the last few weeks, after about a year and a half of teaching as well. He went from kinda just getting by, to really being into shred and sitting with a metronome. Where 2 months ago he was barely muddling through his scales, last week I was showing him parts of Eruption. Maybe it's because he (on his own) discovered Dragonforce 

The most anecdotal horror story was a student I had for a few months when I was really just starting. He just wanted to start and learn some things. He was from somewhere in the middle east I believe, and had a very thick accent. That was a hurdle, but not one I that held me back. It goes without saying that he really didn't practice much. But what was really frustrating at the time and humorous in hindsight was this. When I would try to show him something, say for instance how to make an E chord, he would attempt and have his fingers in the wrong place. I would say no, and then I'd point to where a finger should be and say "no here". He'd then put his finger somewhere else and say "here?" I'd say no again, then I'd take his finger and put it in the proper place. He'd then MOVE it, and then ask "here?".... it was almost like an Abbott and Costello skit or something! I still don't know if he was just trying my patience or if he had a learning disorder of some sort. I never lost my cool, just stayed patient. TO give you an idea, I taught him for six months, for a good chunk twice a week, and he never learned the 5 open chords completely, and all we got through playing wise was the beginning of the harmonica part of "Love Me Do" and the chord changes (2) to "Imagine". Yeah, treacherous really...

Another observation I've recently noticed is that a few of my more dedicated students have started to grow their hair. And quite a few have gotten Ibanez guitars  I have NO idea where that could've originated....


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## Ancestor (Jan 22, 2007)

I just can't deal with it. I've been thinking about putting an ad up again, since I'm so broke, but it's a major pain in the balls. I mainly like to show people theory. I always get the "just show me riffs and licks". I refuse. What am I really showing them that they couldn't get from tab?

My anecdote is a lesson that I took rather than gave. I saw an ad, called the number and went up to this guy's dorm room. For my lesson I could choose between four songs that he knew. I was so disappointed, but I didn't want to take my money back and leave, so I picked the most interesting song. He said, "I really don't think I should try to show you the most complicated song I know on the first lesson." Ha! What a tool. Don't remember the song, but I remember that he didn't know how to play it correctly. Suck city.


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## Korbain (Jan 22, 2007)

with things like youtube and video communication on the rise, you won't need to be a personal guitar teacher anymore...wack up some video's etc and you don't even need to see them in person lol. I'd probably end up in jail for murder if i tried to teach kids how to play guitar...besides the fact i don't have alot of patience...kids shit me up a wall! I do think it would be a cool thing to do, but i know i never could


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## distressed_romeo (Jan 22, 2007)

Durero said:


> Great point again. (I'm getting tired of agreeing with you so much! j/k )
> I've had to really watch myself on this issue, especially when I was in the university music program where the norm is to constantly take on pieces which are way above your current level, and work like a demon to get them down before exams. I try to remind myself that just because I believe the student can handle something, it doesn't help if they don't think they can, and can lead to much frustration.
> 
> Helping people gain a historical perspective to their favorite stuff is excellent as well.
> ...



Thanks man!

I'm hoping to just take on a few dedicated students during the period I'm actually studying, and hopefully move into a full-time job after i get my degree. I'd definitely go the music store route, as I know how unreliable recruiting students privately is from the past 2-and-a-bit years.

Going back to the thing about showing students new music, one of the best teachers I ever had (http://paulreynoldsguitar.co.uk/index.php) and I used to swop music constantly; he'd lend me stuff like early Holdsworth, and I'd lend him metal stuff (apparently he'd started listening to Morbid Angel in his car on the way to work by the time I left). It was really cool, as it made me realise just how deep the connection between metal and jazz really is, and gave me some serious motivation to keep putting them together (at the time I started with him I was a typical teenage Paul Gilbert-wannabe, and was just starting to get seriously into fusion).



Ancestor said:


> I just can't deal with it. I've been thinking about putting an ad up again, since I'm so broke, but it's a major pain in the balls. I mainly like to show people theory. I always get the "just show me riffs and licks". I refuse. What am I really showing them that they couldn't get from tab?
> 
> My anecdote is a lesson that I took rather than gave. I saw an ad, called the number and went up to this guy's dorm room. For my lesson I could choose between four songs that he knew. I was so disappointed, but I didn't want to take my money back and leave, so I picked the most interesting song. He said, "I really don't think I should try to show you the most complicated song I know on the first lesson." Ha! What a tool. Don't remember the song, but I remember that he didn't know how to play it correctly. Suck city.



I can't understand why someone with that level of understanding would assume they can teach, as it must be obvious that any semi-experienced player will see right through it.
One of the great things about regular teaching is that it makes me practice like a maniac for fear of embarassing myself in the way that guy did.


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## Mastodon (Jan 22, 2007)

Korbain said:


> with things like youtube and video communication on the rise, you won't need to be a personal guitar teacher anymore...wack up some video's etc and you don't even need to see them in person lol. I'd probably end up in jail for murder if i tried to teach kids how to play guitar...besides the fact i don't have alot of patience...kids shit me up a wall! I do think it would be a cool thing to do, but i know i never could



No video could ever replace the experience you get out of interacting with an actual human being.


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## distressed_romeo (Jan 23, 2007)

Mastodon said:


> No video could ever replace the experience you get out of interacting with an actual human being.



Agreed. Videos are useful supplements, but they can't replace a proper lesson.


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## Korbain (Jan 23, 2007)

Mastodon said:


> No video could ever replace the experience you get out of interacting with an actual human being.



but would people rather get off their ass n go somewhere, or do something from their pc at home for free?


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## distressed_romeo (Jan 23, 2007)

Korbain said:


> but would people rather get off their ass n go somewhere, or do something from their pc at home for free?



True, but those are the people who probably won't make that much progress.


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## Korbain (Jan 23, 2007)

distressed_romeo said:


> True, but those are the people who probably won't make that much progress.



indeed true hehe. I just think its a real possibility, not now, but maybe 2 years. I think youtube is an example though


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## Drew (Jan 23, 2007)

Mastodon said:


> Wow, that's an awesome story Durero.



+1, damn dude, that's cool. 



MetalMike said:


> Let's not forget the dudes who want to play John Mayer songs to get girls.



Dude, why do you think I started?  


I used to teach a bit in college, but I haven't for years. I actually kind of miss it and would love to start teaching again (and my work schedule should be stabilizing soon, so I might even have the time), but I just don't know if I'm "good" enough to teach. I'm a moderately good natural player and I studied theory quite a bit in college, but I'm also in Berkley School of Music territory. I'd feel weird about posting flyers advertizing myself for lessons when I don't have a band I can mention and don't have the "Berkley Trained" tag like everyone else out here. 

I'd also like to have slightly cleaner technique first... 

EDIT - you know, one of the best ways to really sound out my insecurities and find if I can cut it, as well as polish up my technique and theory, would be to start taking lessons again locally.  I should probably look into that, it'd be good for me.


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## MetalMike (Jan 23, 2007)

Drew said:


> Dude, why do you think I started?



 If it works, why fight it? 

I'd be incredibly intimidated teaching in the Boston dude. I honestly don't blame you for feeling how you do about the whole thing. But, that shouldn't stop you from picking up a few beginners, teaching them the basics, and moving them in a positive direction to make some extra $$$. 

Durero: Awesome story! That's exactly what teaching should be about.


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## budda (Jan 28, 2007)

i teach beginners, because i dont really know how to teach much else lol. i can Play some of the harder stuff, but i dont have a lot of theory knowledge to pass on or anything like that. i basically teach kids how to read music, why its important to keep first finger on first fret etc. Eventually i teach 'em major and minor scales, and pentatonic - cept i cant really explain why they are they way they are . im not the greatest teacher, and i know it. i try to do the best i can, and make sure that the kids at least learn SOMETHING.


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## Aghorasilat (Jan 28, 2007)

I teach all day Thursdays between 1 to 10 students every thursday depending on when they show up.
Some folks come every thursday some get lazy, some get broke so its hard to just teach and make a living off it. I do it cause i love helping guys that are serious. 

It is fun most of the time. But the common problem I see is the ego gets in the way and folks take the easy road instead of working hard or practicing hard. So now what I do is first 30 min of my class is intense non stop 30 min Practicing with metronome either picking, or sweeping, or legato, or melodic line. So we do just one excerice for the whole 30 min boring but EFFECTIVE. I have a guy that can now pick extrememly fast after a month of weekely diligence. You'ld be surprised how guys "think" they can pick fast but after 1 or 2 min they fall off the click completely. 30 min is an asswhooper!

The last 30 min I teach either improv concepts, or Theory, Chordal application or go more in depth with a technique.

I got tired of giving away thousands of licks and ideas and then not seeing results in the students. Its also a good way of weeding out losers that dont want to work hard. I figured it would be best to go "Shaolin" on my students. 

So far the ones that "Get It" are really developing fast.

The one thing I HATE TO SEE is when a student hears Oh that guy from Aghora teaches..so they come to my house and try to show me up..WTF????Are you here to take a lesson or be an ass and watch me kick it for you?

This is why now I charge $40 per hour and I dont go to students , students come to me. Its very intimate and personal its at my house. And all we do in that hour is work hard on one or 2 things. I got tired of the fools that think they can get everything i do in 1hour....and then never come back for a lesson.....Idiots really...Its taken me 20 + years to get to where I am and I still think I am a begginer. But I know what it took for me so that is what I teach.

Santiago Dobles
www.aghora.org
www.myspace.com/aghora



distressed_romeo said:


> Agreed. Videos are useful supplements, but they can't replace a proper lesson.



TOTALLY AGREE!



MetalMike said:


> I had an evangelical Christian student also. Mine was a bit wacky and was convinced the rapture was bound to happen on 6/6/06.
> 
> I catergorize my students. The best being the incredibly dedicated teenagers and the older 'now that I have extra time I wanna rip' type of guys and the worst being the kids whose parents force them into a 'hobby'. Let's not forget the dudes who want to play John Mayer songs to get girls.



Oh my God I had one too...and he was an EGO MANIAC...wanted me to get him into berklee but all he tried to do was Out play me in a lesson..I wanted to bitch slap him in the ear and make him shut up and realize that Going to berklee means nothing....and trying to out play me instead of listening to what I had to offer means nothing either.
I think he stopped coming to class when I told him I play metal.


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## distressed_romeo (Jan 28, 2007)

Aghorasilat said:


> I The one thing I HATE TO SEE is when a student hears Oh that guy from Aghora teaches..so they come to my house and try to show me up..WTF????Are you here to take a lesson or be an ass and watch me kick it for you?
> 
> TOTALLY AGREE!




Seriously? Urrgh, some people are such assholes.

I prefer to teach at home for the simple reason that all my stuff is immediately at hand if I want to refer to a particular book or CD midway through a lesson. Plus, I tend to write all the students' lessons out as powertab files, so they can take it all away on a disc at the end of each lesson rather than giving them huge stacks of paper that'll inevitable get damaged or lost.

Sounds like you've got a good lesson plan there. What sort of age groups do you tend to teach?


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## Aghorasilat (Jan 28, 2007)

distressed_romeo said:


> Seriously? Urrgh, some people are such assholes.
> 
> I prefer to teach at home for the simple reason that all my stuff is immediately at hand if I want to refer to a particular book or CD midway through a lesson. Plus, I tend to write all the students' lessons out as powertab files, so they can take it all away on a disc at the end of each lesson rather than giving them huge stacks of paper that'll inevitable get damaged or lost.
> 
> Sounds like you've got a good lesson plan there. What sort of age groups do you tend to teach?



16 - 40

depends really mostly i get 18 - 25 year olds that are more serious.


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## distressed_romeo (Jan 28, 2007)

Do you take on complete beginners?


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## Aghorasilat (Jan 28, 2007)

distressed_romeo said:


> Do you take on complete beginners?



I have in the past. Right now I take who ever comes to me. I dont advertise at all.


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## MetalMike (Jan 29, 2007)

Aghorasilat said:


> Oh my God I had one too...and he was an EGO MANIAC...wanted me to get him into berklee but all he tried to do was Out play me in a lesson..I wanted to bitch slap him in the ear and make him shut up and realize that Going to berklee means nothing....and trying to out play me instead of listening to what I had to offer means nothing either.
> I think he stopped coming to class when I told him I play metal.


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## Drew (Jan 30, 2007)

Aghorasilat said:


> So we do just one excerice for the whole 30 min boring but EFFECTIVE. I have a guy that can now pick extrememly fast after a month of weekely diligence. You'ld be surprised how guys "think" they can pick fast but after 1 or 2 min they fall off the click completely. 30 min is an asswhooper!



Haha, the boot camp approach? On one hand, you have to be very careful doing repetitive drills for extended periods of time, as it's a repetitive stress injury waiting to happen. 

On another, if you build into that, you're right - it's a great way to build endurance. I should probably start doing a half hour a night of metronome work at a single tempo, starting slow and gradually working up after a few weeks. 

A further update on this thread - over Christmas, I found all my old notebooks from when I was taking lessons. I sat down with a lot of the material last night (mostly jazz comping stuff), and am going to domy best to brush back up, then I'm going to look for someone locally to take lessons from. I figure I could use the refresher, and it'd better prepare me to know what the caliber of playing was expected of a teacher here and get me ready to teach.


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## Aghorasilat (Jan 30, 2007)

Drew said:


> Haha, the boot camp approach? On one hand, you have to be very careful doing repetitive drills for extended periods of time, as it's a repetitive stress injury waiting to happen.



I don't think there is a way to injure yourself if you go slow and Use proper breathing....Essentially its TAI CHI but with my fingers....It should infact if done properly promote healing for my hands....
The way I train speed is to work VERY slow and learn to relaxe all the muscles in the Arm, wrist, Forearm,Shoulder, Neck, Spine, Hip, Legs etc....

It is all connected. If your structure is off and not relaxed energy can not flow....So if you pick with tension it will not flow.


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## Drew (Jan 30, 2007)

I'm just uber-paranoid because I HAVE had tendon problems in the past - it was a learning experience and really helped me clean up my technique, but I did a ton of research at the time and the one thing I saw time and time again was that "marathon" practice sessions were dangerous. A half hour isn't that bad compared to the 10-12 hour things you hear guys brag about, but 10-15 minutes with a 5-minute break to stretch out in between is preferrable...


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## Metal Ken (Jan 30, 2007)

Aghorasilat said:


> I don't think there is a way to injure yourself if you go slow and Use proper breathing....Essentially its TAI CHI but with my fingers....It should infact if done properly promote healing for my hands....
> The way I train speed is to work VERY slow and learn to relaxe all the muscles in the Arm, wrist, Forearm,Shoulder, Neck, Spine, Hip, Legs etc....
> 
> It is all connected. If your structure is off and not relaxed energy can not flow....So if you pick with tension it will not flow.




Shit,if you didnt live 7 hours away, i'd be tempted to sign up for a few lessons..


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## Mastodon (Jan 30, 2007)

Drew said:


> I'm just uber-paranoid because I HAVE had tendon problems in the past - it was a learning experience and really helped me clean up my technique, but I did a ton of research at the time and the one thing I saw time and time again was that "marathon" practice sessions were dangerous. A half hour isn't that bad compared to the 10-12 hour things you hear guys brag about, but 10-15 minutes with a 5-minute break to stretch out in between is preferrable...



 

I usually take a break after every hour to re-stretch, massage, then and run through my warm up exercises. Do you think that would be enough?


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## DDDorian (Jan 31, 2007)

I can barely find the time, let alone the patience, to practice pure technique for any more than ninety minutes at a stretch. I can spend all day learning or writing a song however.


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## distressed_romeo (Jan 31, 2007)

Drew said:


> I'm just uber-paranoid because I HAVE had tendon problems in the past - it was a learning experience and really helped me clean up my technique, but I did a ton of research at the time and the one thing I saw time and time again was that "marathon" practice sessions were dangerous. A half hour isn't that bad compared to the 10-12 hour things you hear guys brag about, but 10-15 minutes with a 5-minute break to stretch out in between is preferrable...



I would have thought the advantage of doing stuff like that with a student is to check that they aren't practicing in a way that's likely to injure them. What I usually do, and get students to do, is to break their technique practice into ten minute segments where they practice nothing but a specific technique without pausing, then take a five minute break, and do a different one. Time permitting, I'll do this for about 1 hour in the morning, and 1 in the evening.
That's the way I've found achieves the best results in the shortest space of time, and minimises the risk of hurting yourself. I had one student who'd had problems with her left wrist due to a skiing accident, and practicing in this way helped her develop pretty decent chops without getting any of the pains in her wrist that had been a problem for her before when she picked up a guitar.


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## ElRay (Jan 31, 2007)

Mastodon said:


> Though I read something last week that said something along the lines of "so long as you know one thing that the other person dosn't, you can be a teacher, and so long as you continue to know one more thing that they do not you will always have something else to teach them."


Adrian Legg has a bit about that on one of his CD's. He was taking Banjo lessons and he realized that the instructor was only one chapter ahead in the book. So he worked really hard over the weekend, covered two chapters and became the new teacher. 

Ray


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## distressed_romeo (Jan 31, 2007)

ElRay said:


> Adrian Legg has a bit about that on one of his CD's. He was taking Banjo lessons and he realized that the instructor was only one chapter ahead in the book. So he worked really hard over the weekend, covered two chapters and became the new teacher.
> 
> Ray



 Adrian Legg rocks!


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## Aghorasilat (Feb 1, 2007)

worse thing about teaching is .....cancellations at the last minute!


I had 4 today bollucks!!!!!!


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## distressed_romeo (Feb 1, 2007)

Aghorasilat said:


> worse thing about teaching is .....cancellations at the last minute!
> 
> 
> I had 4 today bollucks!!!!!!



Yeah, especially when you were planning on using the money you were going to earn to get drunk the same night. It sucks.


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## Durero (Feb 2, 2007)

Aghorasilat said:


> worse thing about teaching is .....cancellations at the last minute!


You got that right! 

For the last 5 years or so I've been using a very simple payment policy which has been very effective for getting rid of this problem. All students must pay ahead for each lesson. A lesson is not booked in my teaching schedule until it is paid for, so students can keep paying for the following lesson at the end of each lesson they take, or they can pay for the next month at the end of the last lesson of that month - whatever they like. But if they don't pay in advance I don't hold a spot for them.

They are told and given a written policy that they can cancel any booked lesson by giving me 24hrs notice, but otherwise they are charged the full fee if they miss or cancel on the same day. I sometimes allow make-up lessons if someone has a great excuse, but they understand that it's up to them to find another un-booked time with me for the make-up. It's amazing how motivated people are to show up consistently when you've already got their money!


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## All_¥our_Bass (Feb 8, 2007)

I just recently agreed to be someones teacher. What's good stuff to start with?

I was reffered here by this post http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=21948

I appologize that this is redudant, but I still don't have very good answers for my original question(s).


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## distressed_romeo (Feb 9, 2007)

All_¥our_Bass;384600 said:


> I just recently agreed to be someones teacher. What's good stuff to start with?
> 
> I was reffered here by this post http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=21948
> 
> I appologize that this is redudant, but I still don't have very good answers for my original question(s).



Try simple major and minor and pentatonic scales, and a few open chord voicings if they're a complete beginner, then show them a simple riff, so they actually have some music to play.
After that, you can start expanding their vocabulary (slowly; don't rush them) by introducing barre chords, and the CAGED system, and slowly introducing them to chord theory. For scales, begin mapping out the different positions over the neck, and then introduce the harmonic and melodic minors, and modal playing (start with the Dorian and Mixolydian, as they'll be the most useful for most people).
After a while, once they've got the basic shapes down, start explaining how chords relate to scales, and get them to start improvising melodically over simple, 1 chord vamps. This is a great thing to do, as it gets them used to soloing, and jamming with other people. Just get them to play nice melodic solos with a decent vibrato, and nailing the tones of the chord they're playing over. After that, introduce different chords, or expand the backing to 2 or more chords. You can also start introducing them to relative pitch; start off by getting them to learn the sounds of the intervals, and encouraging them to work out melodies on their own.

I'd avoid too many technique-building exercises initially; just make sure they're picking cleanly, and that their bends and vibrato are in tune. Give them some simple picking and legato exercises (and possibly some simple 3 string sweeps, but ONLY if they're already getting pretty comfortable with alternate picking).

If it would be helpful to you, I've got a ton of powertab files I wrote out to explain this stuff to total beginners. If you'd like them, PM me your email address, and I'll send them to you.


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