# ViK Duality 7 QM



## leonardo7 (Nov 20, 2013)

...but it sold within a day or two. I dont think it was posted up on here and I think the forum could always use some ViK eye candy. Im sure you guys have already seen this guitar right? This thing was up for offer on the ViK Guitars facebook page two days ago and it looks like it already sold. To me this thing looks better than PRS Private Stock. Ive played three ViK's in total and all have been consistently the finest guitars made that Ive ever played or seen. The top wood on this one was air dried for 8 years and from his private collection with a curly black limba body. 

GAS


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## Watty (Nov 20, 2013)

I totally thought he was building this for Nolly, given the specs, but I suppose not. Regardless, yeah, the PRS Private Stock has nothing on the woods used here.


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## technomancer (Nov 20, 2013)

It wasn't posted here because we don't allow auction-style sales by builders.

Beautiful guitar and awesome top


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## ramses (Nov 20, 2013)

How much do you guys think he got for it?

I'm guessing >$7000.00


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## Artifacts in Motion (Nov 20, 2013)

ramses said:


> How much do you guys think he got for it?
> 
> I'm guessing >$7000.00



Eh, that seems somewhat high. I would say closer to $5500-$6000 USD


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## Cloudy (Nov 20, 2013)

Wouldn't be surprised if it pushed 6k~


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## leonardo7 (Nov 20, 2013)

Watty said:


> I totally thought he was building this for Nolly, given the specs, but I suppose not. Regardless, yeah, the PRS Private Stock has nothing on the woods used here.



This is the 7 string twin to the 6 he's making for Nolly. Both look identical otherwise, with the two tops from the same billet I believe.


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## Fiction (Nov 20, 2013)

He linked to his website saying "whos going to buy it" and it had a price of $4200 USD, so I assume it was FIFS? Or was that for the production to order one?

Edit: He said on his fb post message him offers, so I assume what he linked too was the production model page.


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## ikarus (Nov 20, 2013)

I'd rather buy this than Doug's B2.


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## leonardo7 (Nov 20, 2013)

Fiction said:


> He linked to his website saying "whos going to buy it" and it had a price of $4200 USD, so I assume it was FIFS? Or was that for the production to order one?
> 
> Edit: He said on his fb post message him offers, so I assume what he linked too was the production model page.



That link is old and that price is old. That link took you to the Nolly sig run spots from two years ago. He never posted a price for this one


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## ikarus (Nov 20, 2013)

^ Vik guitars start at 5000USD.


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## Just A Box (Nov 20, 2013)

For me, and this is my mildly informed opinion, nothing else, I'd be uncomfortable with that dual cutaway for the neck joint. It's a set neck, not a neck through, and I'd be concerned with the lack of wood supporting that neck. Some Gibson SG's had too little support in the neck pocket as well. Just makes me nervous.

Otherwise, that's about as beautiful a guitar as I've ever seen. $4k and up...? That kind of workmanship is clearly worth it.


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## Mklane (Nov 20, 2013)

Nice!!


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## themike (Nov 20, 2013)

No doubting how nice his work and woods are, but I hate auction style sales from builders. Very unprofessional in my opinion 

You skilled and build great shit? Than sell it at a high price. Be confident in your work but don't make people fight over it.


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## Just A Box (Nov 20, 2013)

themike said:


> No doubting how nice his work and woods are, but I hate auction style sales from builders. Very unprofessional in my opinion
> 
> You skilled and build great shit? Than sell it at a high price. Be confident in your work but don't make people fight over it.



Very unprofessional? Not sure I'd use that word to describe his sales method for that guitar. I mean, if someone will pay more, then why sell for less? If you can pocket another grand in profit (and we know these guys aren't millionaires) then why not? This isn't exactly a cookie cutter Strat or LP.


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## technomancer (Nov 20, 2013)

Eh sorry I personally really dislike the whole blind auction sale trend some builders are doing lately. I actually dislike it so much I won't deal with anyone that does it. Set a damn price for your work and sell it. I'll buy a PRS PS for $7k before I .... around having to make an offer and wait to see if if I've been "outbid" or worse wonder if I'm being played to try to get more money.

They're nice guitars but I really don't need that kind of hassle.

Also really not a fan of taking deposits with a base price for orders of $3k, then telling people "Oh sorry build price is now $5k base" after sitting on their deposit for a year or two.


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## elq (Nov 20, 2013)

Just A Box said:


> Very unprofessional? Not sure I'd use that word to describe his sales method for that guitar. I mean, if someone will pay more, then why sell for less? If you can pocket another grand in profit (and we know these guys aren't millionaires) then why not? This isn't exactly a cookie cutter Strat or LP.



It's certainly unprofessional when there are customers who have paid in full for months before this guitar even started being made. I know I'm not the only one.


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## TemjinStrife (Nov 20, 2013)

Just A Box said:


> For me, and this is my mildly informed opinion, nothing else, I'd be uncomfortable with that dual cutaway for the neck joint. It's a set neck, not a neck through, and I'd be concerned with the lack of wood supporting that neck. Some Gibson SG's had too little support in the neck pocket as well. Just makes me nervous.
> 
> Otherwise, that's about as beautiful a guitar as I've ever seen. $4k and up...? That kind of workmanship is clearly worth it.



The neck tenon extends completely under the neck pickup. Plenty of glue surface. It's the same way PRS and Nik Huber do it.


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## lewstherin006 (Nov 20, 2013)

This guitar kinda reminds me of a super hot chic: super hot but comes with too much baggage. Awesome guitar though.


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## Hollowway (Nov 20, 2013)

Yeah, count me in among the guys who:
1) Don't like blind auctions (or auctions in general, frankly).
2) Don't like builders cranking out all of these extra instruments when they have a substantial build queue. 

And also count me in among the guys who think Vik's success has gone to his head.


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## thrsher (Nov 20, 2013)

elq said:


> It's certainly unprofessional when there are customers who have paid in full for months before this guitar even started being made. I know I'm not the only one.



Thank you.

sure was real quick to get this guitar done.

meanwhile 28 months later.....


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## DoomJazz (Nov 20, 2013)

This guitar gives me a symphony of boners. He's gotta be the new Doug.


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## narad (Nov 20, 2013)

I should have been smarter and just bought these "off-the-peg" sort of builds instead of placing custom orders...would have had my guitars years earlier, with potentially better woods. Though Vik did try to persuade me toward quilt maple on my saviour...if I had seen this first I would have been convinced!


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## Hollowway (Nov 21, 2013)

narad said:


> I should have been smarter and just bought these "off-the-peg" sort of builds instead of placing custom orders...would have had my guitars years earlier, with potentially better woods. Though Vik did try to persuade me toward quilt maple on my saviour...if I had seen this first I would have been convinced!



I kind of feel like that in general. There are certainly a number of customs I have that I was particular about the specs, but generally speaking I iust like a really nice guitar. These luthiers wither the uber long wait lists, but numerous off the peg builds, would make me happier if they just built everything off the peg and let us have at them. I totally get why the don't, but it seems that the only fair way to do it is either all off the peg or none off the peg, but trying to do both just pisses people off, especially when you see one show up with your specs, and yours is still being built.


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## capoeiraesp (Nov 21, 2013)

thrsher said:


> Thank you.
> 
> sure was real quick to get this guitar done.
> 
> meanwhile 28 months later.....



I reckon your other recent run guitar will come before it.


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## narad (Nov 21, 2013)

Hollowway said:


> These luthiers wither the uber long wait lists, but numerous off the peg builds, would make me happier if they just built everything off the peg and let us have at them.



I'm not sure about that though, because the off-the-peg builds seem to get snatched up by the same people. Let's wait a few days and see if the prophesy holds for this Vik. Getting in line at least guarantees some sort of level playing field to those that are willing to spend $4-5k for a guitar, but aren't willing to outbid everyone else at $7k+. That's the thing - Doug and Vik might be able to auction some guitars for 10k+ or 7k+ respectively, but I think they'd be starving artists if those were the standard prices.


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## Hollowway (Nov 21, 2013)

^ True, that's a good point.


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## JP Universe (Nov 21, 2013)

not this shit again..... really??? Blackmachine all over again.....

Make no mistake - skipping the wait list, the bidding style of auction and internet hype has gotten this to sell within 2 days at that high price.

I think Vik makes some of the most beautiful guitars in the world but the way he's doing things really grinds my gears, especially when my internet friends are patiently waiting in the queue to get their custom guitar 

He keeps quoting unrealistic times for new business. It's not just him that's doing this but a whole lot of luthiers. I'd hate to think a young luthier looks at what Vik does and think 'Oh that's how you run a successful business' unfortunately the fact is that he is. I'd rather the money go elsewhere....... 

That guitar is HOT and I bet it plays amazingly.... That quilt top is one of the best I've ever seen. I wish it was done by someone else to be honest 

TL;DR - Feel sorry for the guys in the queue and despise bidding wars on overhyped 'It' guitars

EDIT - I'll add that I disagree on the PRS PS woods not comparing to this  happy to dig up some pics if you want me to


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## LolloBlaskhyrt (Nov 21, 2013)

It's beautiful *_*


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## Churchie777 (Nov 21, 2013)

I totally just think "Ego trip" when these blind auction style sales happen plus who knows if the current "bid" is real. I jumped on this thing straight away and got a reply "Current offer is over $6000USD"


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## Valnob (Nov 21, 2013)

Apparently it went for nearly 10k $


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## ramses (Nov 21, 2013)

Churchie777 said:


> I jumped on this thing straight away and got a reply "Current offer is over $6000USD"



Not surprising, given his current base price of $5000.00.


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## Captain Butterscotch (Nov 21, 2013)

Eh, the same things that I've said about Blackmachine for years can start to be applied to Vik's instruments now.


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## thrsher (Nov 21, 2013)

its not my fault his builds pull much more than what i paid and i still paid more on his guitar than any guitar to date and i feel that's why he doesn't care to really work on the older in queue builds. any given day, he can put his head down and finish those builds and he continues to choose not to


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## themike (Nov 21, 2013)

I feel like anyone who trusts a luthier enough to wire an undisclosed amount of money to a bank account in Minsk, the movie bad guy capital of the world, should be given priority on the speed of their builds and not have to watch these things be built, auctioned and sold instead of getting their own. 

While I have the same gripes with Doug's methods, at least he does it behind emails and a private circle of people and not paraded around Facebook


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## Lorcan Ward (Nov 21, 2013)

This should really have gone to one of the guys in the Nolly run. He's creating a very bad name for himself with all his recent behaviour.


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## Rotatous (Nov 21, 2013)

Valnob said:


> Apparently it went for nearly 10k $



Wow, definitely not a $10,000 guitar 

I'd rather buy a custom from someone else, and maybe a used car for that money.


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## theoctopus (Nov 21, 2013)

drawnacrol said:


> This should really have gone to one of the guys in the Nolly run. He's creating a very bad name for himself with all his recent behaviour.



I tried... I told him I would match the price for the highest bid so long as he counted the $2k I already have toward my Nolly Duality, but he told me this one was direct sale only. Quite frankly, I just want out at this point, and would gladly have paid a premium to have a guitar in hand. He probably could have made more money taking me up on the deal, since he could have turned around and sold the Nolly spot I have for more money.

I wonder if Vik looks at these threads, and sees what his business practices are earning him, in terms of reputation. I can't help but wonder when the tipping point will be, where enough people don't want to engage his services that he has to start dropping prices again. At least Doug responds to me via e-mail and is always very friendly, and he doesn't even have any of my money...


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## Casper777 (Nov 21, 2013)

How long have you been waiting for your Nolly??

What is the current waiting time for someone in these special runs?


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## Lorcan Ward (Nov 21, 2013)

theoctopus said:


> I tried... I told him I would match the price for the highest bid so long as he counted the $2k I already have toward my Nolly Duality, but he told me this one was direct sale only. Quite frankly, I just want out at this point, and would gladly have paid a premium to have a guitar in hand. He probably could have made more money taking me up on the deal, since he could have turned around and sold the Nolly spot I have for more money.
> 
> I wonder if Vik looks at these threads, and sees what his business practices are earning him, in terms of reputation. I can't help but wonder when the tipping point will be, where enough people don't want to engage his services that he has to start dropping prices again. At least Doug responds to me via e-mail and is always very friendly, and he doesn't even have any of my money...



Damn! Thats not good.

Well Doug doesn't have anyones money and he just has a small waiting list for future builds. Unless you take into account the Feline made B6s he's only sold 5 guitars in the last 1.5-2 years.


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## Minoin (Nov 21, 2013)

And in the meantime Vik has enough time on his hand to cry about a upcoming luthier building a similar looking guitar. 
Seems like a nice guy, Mr. Vik..

Guitar is very nice though, well done.


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## Shawn (Nov 21, 2013)

Wow. That is beautiful.


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## Just A Box (Nov 21, 2013)

Apparently, my earlier comments regarding the criticism of the method and circumstances of this particular guitars' sale were made because I was TOTALLY uninformed about ANYTHING regarding this luthier and his practices. 

If it pleases the court, I'd like to withdraw and rephrase?...

For the record: That is a fine looking guitar. Period.


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## Discoqueen (Nov 21, 2013)

thrsher said:


> Thank you.
> 
> sure was real quick to get this guitar done.
> 
> meanwhile 28 months later.....



Ouch, man... if someone pulled something like that to me I'd be raising all sorts of hell. 

Good luck with your build!


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## thrsher (Nov 21, 2013)

i cant force him to work on the guitar. ive reached out to him several times and given several answers each time. ive reached out to his associate and that was fairly pointless too. really isnt much i can do other than inform the public of the exact nature of my business with him. im glad other customers are starting to speak up because its happening to ALOT of us.

ive been cordial with all my dealings, fully paid, which was probably a mistake but i was trying to stay ahead of my finances cause i sure as hell cant afford it now.


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## Hollowway (Nov 21, 2013)

theoctopus said:


> I tried... I told him I would match the price for the highest bid so long as he counted the $2k I already have toward my Nolly Duality, but he told me this one was direct sale only.



That's f...ing ridiculous, right there. How does that make any ethical or business sense? There's a saying, "pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered," meaning that too much greed will bring you down. IMO Vik crossed that line. ESPECIALLY because he has now decided that those customers who put faith in him and trusted him are now being pushed to the back of the line for a quick buck on his part.


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## s4tch (Nov 21, 2013)

theoctopus said:


> ...Quite frankly, I just want out at this point...



Could you just cancel your order and ask for a refund?


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## ramses (Nov 21, 2013)

Hollowway said:


> That's f...ing ridiculous, right there. How does that make any ethical or business sense? There's a saying, "pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered," meaning that too much greed will bring you down. IMO Vik crossed that line. ESPECIALLY because he has now decided that those customers who put faith in him and trusted him are now being pushed to the back of the line for a quick buck on his part.



I used to be sad that I wasn't fast enough to get into that run. Now I'm not.

It seems that there are very few custom luthiers that still fall into the "I respect my customers" category.


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## theoctopus (Nov 21, 2013)

s4tch said:


> Could you just cancel your order and ask for a refund?



I could probably sell the spot. The guitar has been worked on, and it is making progress, it's just going so slowly that I'm starting to wish I had the liquid funds available for other things. I'm hesitant to get rid of it because I know it will be done at some point, and that it will be a great guitar when it is completed.


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## leonardo7 (Nov 21, 2013)

Ive got to defend ViK Guitars here. He's not leaving anyone high and dry and he's not disappearing on anyone. The last year has been challenging for him. He had surgery and publicly stated that it went well but there was some recovery time. Then he moved to a new spot and also stated that he needed to move but it was done swiftly. He also has a wife and two beautiful children to care for, he's not some old burnt out dude who's bitter, he's very passionate about his work. He's like 30 years old and has huge plans for his company. Just wait guys, its gonna be pretty rad!

As far as the in stock build, its only the second one he has done I think. Daemoness has done it a few times, and so has just about every other builder. Jackson took 2.5 years to make basic spec customs yet they built 4 guitars for Misha in one year. ViK is just one guy. 

Nolly was the one who brought the quality of ViK guitars to our attention by his detailed reviews, vids etc. ViK decided to build him a one off and probably decided to just build two as he went along. When moving at the same stages of production it probably only takes slightly more time to just build a second while hes at it. Maybe he needs the money, I think thats why builders do the in-stocks. I understand as Ive had a KxK on order for over 2 years and we all know how many in-stocks he builds constantly. Id rather have ViK take an extra year than have him go under, become stressed, bitter and then dissolve and .... everyone over, or have the quality suffer. His work really is that good and I know that he has 25+ guitars mostly built including the Nolly sigs but its slow because he moves them all along at roughly the same pace, some make it out faster than others. They are gonna start to pour out in '14 I think.

When I asked Rob at KxK what in-stocks will be coming next, he answers with "whatever gives me the least amount of trouble". I think that is a very real and legit explanation that can sum up why some guitars take longer than others.


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## Lorcan Ward (Nov 21, 2013)

Since he's a luthier who puts his heart and soul into his guitars I really hope he gets back on track finishing up builds that have gotten delayed.



ramses said:


> It seems that there are very few custom luthiers that still fall into the "I respect my customers" category.



There are still plenty of guys who get the most satisfaction from getting a finished guitar into a person's hands to make music.


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## narad (Nov 21, 2013)

leonardo7 said:


> As far as the in stock build, its only the second one he has done I think. Daemoness has done it a few times, and so has just about every other builder. Jackson took 2.5 years to make basic spec customs yet they built 4 guitars for Misha in one year. ViK is just one guy.



The difference is that when Dylan does the stock builds it's not at the expense of the orders that have already been in place. Dylan's pretty good with hitting his delivery targets. It's not my business - I'm not going to try to butt in and say someone shouldn't do these stock auction style builds, but obviously if you're more than a year overdue with your backlog you probably shouldn't be exploring new build ideas.

I mean, I'm in for 3 Vik builds - 2 slots purchased after I was way overdue and whatnot. If I was voting with my wallet I clearly wouldn't be doing this, as I don't feel any respect, and I think I've only received updates 2 days over the past year, but ultimately something cliques well between what I want in a guitar and what I see in a Vik guitar. If there were really other builders who seemed as skilled, who had their own original designs, and whose designs suited my aesthetics, then I'd probably have pursued them instead. 

There's a local pizza shop nearby that treats you like shit when you're in there, but it's by far the best pizza in the town. I hate to support their business ethics, but dammit, sometimes I just need good pizza.


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## ramses (Nov 21, 2013)

leonardo7 said:


> ... His work really is that good ...



No doubt about that. One of these days I'll snatch one of those in-stock builds of his.

It just doesn't seem like a good idea to ask for full payment, then finish the guitar 2+ years later (as stated above by two forum members).


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## thrsher (Nov 21, 2013)

leonardo7 said:


> Jackson took 2.5 years to make basic spec customs yet they built 4 guitars for Misha in one year. ViK is just one guy.



and vik is guilty of catering to artist and people with money. rumors of builds under the table because he was offered alot of money.

all of your other points are valid for delays, health, logistics, family. i agree and understand all of that and have no issues what soever with that. one of the reasons i finished paying off my build besides getting the financial burden out of the way was because i knew vik just overcame health problems and im sure he could use the moeny. what i dont understand is, after those delays, resuming on working on your current orders. 

"Sent: Monday, March 18, 2013 2:51 PM
Subject: Re: ViK custom order

Hey, Brandon!

You have a point here, I agree and apologize. There many reasons for everything but those are not excuses anyway. Would it work if I have it ready by the end of April? I'd do the woodwork by the Messe and coating after it.

On Mar 14, 2013, at 5:16 PM, brandon moran <[email protected]> wrote:

Hey Vik,

How are things? I just want to take a moment to get a good status of the build. it has been quite some time for an update with this project. it seems like more and more things keep coming up and my build keeps getting pushed to the side. it is very disheartening to feel this way, being pushed aside. Artist builds, serial projects, Messe, and group runs, some near me and others much much after me. I would just like to know what your timeline will be for the remainder of the build. i am paid in full so we do have that out of the way as well. hope all is well."

instead of this happening, i watched more guitars start from scratch and one was just sold. and that email goes back to march, well after all the reasons you pointed out on his delay. the saviour run came in after my order and 3 of them are already in the hands of the players. even keith merrow order was after me and he has had his guitar for a good amount of time. at what point, do you put your head down and finish the work instead of continuing to push it off???


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## thrsher (Nov 21, 2013)

ramses said:


> No doubt about that. One of these days I'll snatch one of those in-stock builds of his.
> 
> It just doesn't seem like a good idea to ask for full payment, then finish the guitar 2+ years later (as stated above by two forum members).



vik never asked me for money up front other than the deposit. i made the second payment as agreed when the build started and i chose to pay off the build, just to clear any confusion there


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## leonardo7 (Nov 21, 2013)

Lets face it, ViK Guitars blew up but did the right thing to close ordering. He has yet to put out a lemon. The guy can build.


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## ItWillDo (Nov 21, 2013)

Beautiful guitars, but honestly not worth the ridiculous amount he's asking. Don't really feel bad about getting a copy soon, especially when he's leaving paying customers in the cold.


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## thrsher (Nov 21, 2013)

leonardo7 said:


> Lets face it, ViK Guitars blew up but did the right thing to close ordering. He has yet to put out a lemon. The guy can build.



agree there too, and again, so troublesome. he can def build his ass off. a guitar in a week!! and still 28 months later, i could be wrong but i feel that he could focus on one order for two weeks and have it out and easily bang out his backlog, but that's pure speculation based on what i have seen


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## mountainjam (Nov 21, 2013)

Leo, its no surprise you are defending Vik here. You are one of the few guys on the planet who owns a Vik. And saying its worth an extra year to wait on his work? That's extremely over optimistic. Ide guess his build time quotes are probably 5 years off. My guitar was supposed to be completed 6 months ago, he hasn't even started on it and there is no begining in sight. I'm so sick of waiting, I've tried to sell my spot lately, but I've come to the conclusion it will never be built, and I do not want to sell my problem to someone else now. Vik, hopefully my $700 deposit helped your family.


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## leonardo7 (Nov 21, 2013)

ItWillDo said:


> Beautiful guitars, but honestly not worth the ridiculous amount he's asking. Don't really feel bad about getting a copy soon, especially when he's leaving paying customers in the cold.



How much is he asking?


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## ItWillDo (Nov 21, 2013)

leonardo7 said:


> How much is he asking?


About  2K; Headless design 8, whitewashed flamed maple top, fanned birdseye maple board 26"-28", BKP Aftermaths with matching top covers, walnut/maple-neck, etc...


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## themike (Nov 21, 2013)

leonardo7 said:


> How much is he asking?


 
How much are you bidding?


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## BlackStar7 (Nov 21, 2013)

Vik seems to have the same problem similar high end builders have: they don't really need normal customers anymore. The wait list has become a sort of illusion designed to promote interest in their brand, but forget about realistically ever owning one. 

I see their exclusivity and unavailability defended with the logic that "they're out of the reach of the average buyer because they can't afford them," but people with the financial means who have actually paid are the ones getting walked all over, not 16 year olds complaining about their price online. 

As someone who would REALLY like to have one of these one day and sincerely respects his work, it's a serious bummer.


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## leonardo7 (Nov 21, 2013)

ItWillDo said:


> About &#8364; 2K; Headless design 8, whitewashed flamed maple top, fanned birdseye maple board 26"-28", BKP Aftermaths with matching top covers, walnut/maple-neck, etc...



I was asking how much ViK was asking, not this other build you have planned with another luthier. Sounds nice though. Also, it seems like you have all of the specs figured out but the most important one, the body wood


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## Hollowway (Nov 21, 2013)

leonardo7 said:


> Id rather have ViK take an extra year than have him go under, become stressed, bitter and then dissolve and .... everyone over, or have the quality suffer.



Yeah, I don't disagree with most of what you said, and in fact I think it is acceptable, and almost mandatory, that when someone has a successful product they either scale up production or increase price. That's the only smart thing to do. But don't you think it was wrong of him to tell theoctopus that he was not allowed to buy this one, and put his current build in the queue as an instock, despite the fact that he had been waiting for his own overdue build? That's the part that just rubs me wrong. It's like if you go to a restaurant and put your name in, wait around for an hour, and have someone else walk in and ask for a table and get seated right away. Then you ask at the hostess stand and they tell you, "yes, but they got seated in the first-come first served area, you are in the put-your-name-in area." Seems like poor customer service to your dedicated customer. That's the part I think is inexcusable, and shows a lack of integrity on Vik's part.


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## HaloHat (Nov 21, 2013)

Hollowway said:


> Don't like builders cranking out all of these extra instruments when they have a substantial build queue.



^ What he said. That would make me want to do business elsewhere.

I really don't have a problem with auction style as long as there is no reserve lol.


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## leonardo7 (Nov 21, 2013)

Hollowway said:


> Yeah, I don't disagree with most of what you said, and in fact I think it is acceptable, and almost mandatory, that when someone has a successful product they either scale up production or increase price. That's the only smart thing to do. But don't you think it was wrong of him to tell theoctopus that he was not allowed to buy this one, and put his current build in the queue as an instock, despite the fact that he had been waiting for his own overdue build? That's the part that just rubs me wrong. It's like if you go to a restaurant and put your name in, wait around for an hour, and have someone else walk in and ask for a table and get seated right away. Then you ask at the hostess stand and they tell you, "yes, but they got seated in the first-come first served area, you are in the put-your-name-in area." Seems like poor customer service to your dedicated customer. That's the part I think is inexcusable, and shows a lack of integrity on Vik's part.



Well he didn't tell him he couldn't buy it, he just said that he couldn't use his $2000 deposit towards it. I dont think ESP is gonna let me use my custom $1000 deposit paid 6 months ago towards a Stef B8 are they? I totally get what your saying though




theoctopus said:


> I tried... I told him I would match the price for the highest bid so long as he counted the $2k I already have toward my Nolly Duality, but he told me this one was direct sale only. Quite frankly, I just want out at this point... At least Doug responds to me via e-mail and is always very friendly, and he doesn't even have any of my money...



Im in the Nolly run as well. Its been nearly two years and I will admit that I did not expect this long of a wait either. I know the guitars have started already. I also know that they are gonna be amazing. Its probably best to stick it out at this point since we are so close. Its also possible that you may have paid much much more for the in stock build than just waiting for the Nolly so maybe its a blessing in disguise? 



theoctopus said:


> The guitar has been worked on, and it is making progress, it's just going so slowly that I'm starting to wish I had the liquid funds available for other things.



Yet you were wanting to spend thousands more for this one now? Like I said, probably a blessing in disguise and best to just wait.

By the way, that recent B2 sold for $13,500 US Doug told me.


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## elq (Nov 21, 2013)

I have no doubt that Vik builds fantastic looking guitars, and like Narad I've voted with my wallet. But I certainly don't appreciate being lied to.


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## HighGain510 (Nov 21, 2013)

leonardo7 said:


> He's like 30 years old and has huge plans for his company. Just wait guys, its gonna be pretty rad!




YEAH! Let me line up and throw down deposits for the next big thing he has planned! RAD! Hopefully he'll treat me the same way as the guys in the Nolly and other runs like those missing 8 strings, too!  

Sorry man, I've played Nolly's ViK and it was a fantastic guitar, no doubt there. Vik's attitude towards his customers and the way he runs his business is just bullshit, plain and simple. There's no way I would EVER send that guy any of my hard-earned money now, I was concerned about sending cash to him before during his initial runs, but now I'm doubly glad I trusted my gut on this one as there is no way in hell I'd trust Vik with my money as he's already proven he has zero issue with ignoring his customers, building these "psuedo-auction" guitars to sell to the highest bidder instead of previous orders (you don't think it's ....ed up that he shot down a guy who had a deposit in with him and offered to pay the difference on the guitar because Vik felt he wanted ALL the extra money he could get? I mean hey, who cares that he likely spent that guy's deposit money long ago, right?!) and if you're not a big name, you don't matter unless you're bringing $10K to the table.

Between his recent embarrassing public blow-up and the fact that his customers from his original runs still have nothing to show for the cash they've laid down, he's certainly helping to ensure that he has the reputation of someone who received his copy of the Bernie Rico Jr. manual on how to snatch up a bunch of deposits, not deliver and then ignore the customers and studied it thoroughly.  Hopefully people aren't blinded by the "ZOMG HE MAKES NICE-LOOKING GUITARS!!!" factor like a lot of the folks were with the BRJ BFR sale that so many NOW realize they got suckered into and when he posts this "huge plan for his company" that people aren't suckered in once again. It was painful to watch all the guys bragging about getting in on the sale as I 100% saw it coming, and I can totally see it happening again here with Vik. Being that the vast majority of posters on here are from the US, sending large amounts of cash over to Belarus is not a smart thing to do in the first place but when you've ALREADY seen the dude has a track record of ignoring customers for months/years who have large deposits (or in some cases, fully-paid orders) down with him, I hope you guys at least think twice before you join the lamenting crew over in the BFR thread that has now turned into the "ZOMG BRJ SCREWED US OVER!!!" thread that I knew it would become right from the start, sadly. 

I've done my best to ignore most of the Vik threads and whatnot, but when I see shit like this I just can't ignore it anymore. You absolutely cannot justify ignoring orders, especially FULLY-PAID orders, and pulling this pseudo-auction garbage by saying "but guys&#8230; he builds a great guitar, it's worth it!" It's not, and he has no right to treat his customers the way he does. Said it before and I'll say it again, dude might build nice guitars but he'll never see a dime of my money because I don't deal with people like that.


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## theoctopus (Nov 21, 2013)

elq said:


> I have no doubt that Vik builds fantastic looking guitars, and like Narad I've voted with my wallet. But I certainly don't appreciate being lied to.



This is basically where I stand. I understand delay. I understand the cost of a one-man shop. I understand the cost of handbuilt quality. You don't even want to know how much I've paid for handbuilt knives when I worked as a chef, it blows most of these guitars out of the water...even the last B2 Doug sold... I understand how life gets in the way from time to time (I run a successful business, am a full time med student, have a brand new kid, and too many irons in the fire). 

All I would need to hear is the occasional check-in with updates on the progress of the build. It's such a simple fix. I work really hard to be understanding and empathic (as my career demands), so I'd be okay if he told me he hadn't even started the guitar at all. Instead, when I check in with Vik every month or two, FB tells me he's seen the message, but he ignores it almost every time. It just feels like I've thrown my money at someone against whom I have no real recourse. I want the guitar, I want to like Vik, i want to feel like my money is being put to good use, I want to think that my money is supporting someone who deserves it and who is going to work for it. I don't know how many of those things I can check off the list right now...


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## technomancer (Nov 21, 2013)

leonardo7 said:


> Ive got to defend ViK Guitars here. He's not leaving anyone high and dry and he's not disappearing on anyone. The last year has been challenging for him. He had surgery and publicly stated that it went well but there was some recovery time. Then he moved to a new spot and also stated that he needed to move but it was done swiftly. He also has a wife and two beautiful children to care for, he's not some old burnt out dude who's bitter, he's very passionate about his work. He's like 30 years old and has huge plans for his company. Just wait guys, its gonna be pretty rad!
> 
> As far as the in stock build, its only the second one he has done I think. Daemoness has done it a few times, and so has just about every other builder. Jackson took 2.5 years to make basic spec customs yet they built 4 guitars for Misha in one year. ViK is just one guy.
> 
> ...



There's a bit of a difference there though. I'm pretty sure the builds still outstanding with KxK had no timetable associated with them and guitars have been getting delivered from those runs alongside the in-stocks. There was one run of 5 S7s that had a promised six month delivery date, which was met for all of them (elq has one of those). 

Then again I'm not a person that has problems with in-stock guitars as I know sometimes they keep the doors open for a small shop. I know KxK would be out of business without them.

What I have never seen KxK do is take a deposit then change the price of the order after sitting on somebody's money for over a year (which happened to mphsc) or run blind auctions on an in stock, and that is the stuff I take issue with.


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## leonardo7 (Nov 21, 2013)

technomancer said:


> What I have never seen KxK do is take a deposit then change the price of the order after sitting on somebody's money for over a year (which happened to mphsc) or run blind auctions on an in stock, and that is the stuff I take issue with.



So specs were locked down, a price was decided upon, and a deposit was placed, then the price went up? I doubt it

For the record, Daemoness has put up his in-stocks for auction as well. The fanned 8 string was sold this way. Didnt Strandberg also do that with that red Boden? It happens. 

If your OK with in-stocks to begin with then you have to be OK with selling them to the highest offer don't you?

I dont want to come across as the guy who is defending Vik and his ways, I really dont know or want to be involved, I just really like my Vik guitar


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## TemjinStrife (Nov 21, 2013)

leonardo7 said:


> So specs were locked down, a price was decided upon, and a deposit was placed, then the price went up? I doubt it



That's exactly what he's said. 



> For the record, Daemoness has put up his in-stocks for auction as well. The fanned 8 string was sold this way. Didnt Strandberg also do that with that red Boden? It happens.
> 
> If your OK with in-stocks to begin with then you have to be OK with selling them to the highest offer dont you?



No, actually; logically, one does not equal the other. One can be okay with the idea of a luthier selling "extra" builds to keep things moving but disapprove of a frustrating sale process that provides ample room for abuse, fraud, and dissatisfied potential customers.

Really, I see a lot of downside for ViK here. There's a short burst of money to be made from this sale, but on the whole he's frustrating and driving off a portion of his potential client base who are otherwise RAW (ready, able, and willing) to pay thousands of dollars for a build.



> I dont want to come across as the guy who is defending Vik and his ways, I really dont know or want to be involved, I just really like my Vik guitar



Too late.


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## leonardo7 (Nov 21, 2013)

The thing I dont like about it is that it leaves it open for the luthier to just lie about the price to get it up there, but I don't think ViK has done that. 

Where did this $10,000 figure even come from? All of a sudden that figure started getting tossed around like its factual. Does anyone really know EXACTLY what it went for?


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## elq (Nov 21, 2013)

technomancer said:


> There's a bit of a difference there though. I'm pretty sure the builds still outstanding with KxK had no timetable associated with them and guitars have been getting delivered from those runs alongside the in-stocks. There was one run of 5 S7s that had a promised six month delivery date, which was met for all of them (elq has one of those).
> 
> Then again I'm not a person that has problems with in-stock guitars as I know sometimes they keep the doors open for a small shop. I know KxK would be out of business without them.
> 
> What I have never seen KxK do is take a deposit then change the price of the order after sitting on somebody's money for over a year (which happened to mphsc) or run blind auctions on an in stock, and that is the stuff I take issue with.





If I were to have an interaction with Rob like this -



> Vik <[email protected]>
> Mar 18
> 
> to me
> ...






> Eric <[email protected]>
> Mar 19
> 
> to Vik
> ...



And then proceeded to build a bunch of in-stock guitars, I'd be as pissed at Rob as I am at Vik.


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## HighGain510 (Nov 21, 2013)

leonardo7 said:


> Ive got to defend ViK Guitars here.





leonardo7 said:


> I dont want to come across as the guy who is defending Vik and his ways



Wait... what?


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## thrsher (Nov 21, 2013)

alain- our siutation with vik is no diffrent that yours with jim and the boden

vik took erics money, went to MESSE, sold one of those guitars to you, then took a vacation


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## leonardo7 (Nov 21, 2013)

HighGain510 said:


> Wait... what?



I was editing that when I got quoted so I had to change it back and then it sort came across funny 



thrsher said:


> alain- our siutation with vik is no diffrent that yours with jim and the boden
> 
> vik took erics money, went to MESSE, sold one of those guitars to you, then took a vacation



I hope your guitars are finished soon. At least I didnt buy Eric's actual guitar. That would be messed up 

But yeah, Im gonna try and stay out of it I guess


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## JP Universe (Nov 21, 2013)

Back on topic, Alain.... when are you posting an NGD of the Vik in a week??


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## leonardo7 (Nov 21, 2013)

JP Universe said:


> Back on topic, Alain.... when are you posting an NGD of the Vik in a week??



I took some pics but didnt like em and then said .... it. Its a funny guitar to capture because of the carves/angles and the natural color. I will try again. Believe me I know that if I dont then your gonna continue to bring it up 

Im on it ASAP


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## jahosy (Nov 21, 2013)

elq said:


> If I were to have an interaction with Rob like this -
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wow. Just WOW.

Love their work and all .... but there's absolutely zero integrity if that's what he did. 

Sounds all so familar. Young, talented musician / actor / sportsperson (fill in the blanks) attained overnight success and abandon those people who got him there. Such a pity.


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## JP Universe (Nov 21, 2013)

leonardo7 said:


> I took some pics but didnt like em and then said .... it. Its a funny guitar to capture because of the carves/angles and the natural color. I will try again. Believe me I know that if I dont then your gonna continue to bring it up
> 
> Im on it ASAP



This is like the 3rd time you've said that you'll post the pics up....

Don't pull a Vik on me!!  (sorry I couldn't resist)


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## MikeH (Nov 21, 2013)

Forgive my ignorance, but why does it matter that the wood was air-dried for 8 years? Does that make it more stable than drying it conventionally, or are people just amazed that he held on to it for 8 years and then put it on a guitar?


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## oracles (Nov 21, 2013)

I don't care how great his guitars are, with a business ethic and attitude like his, he'll never see a cent from me.


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## technomancer (Nov 21, 2013)

leonardo7 said:


> So specs were locked down, a price was decided upon, and a deposit was placed, then the price went up? I doubt it
> 
> For the record, Daemoness has put up his in-stocks for auction as well. The fanned 8 string was sold this way. Didnt Strandberg also do that with that red Boden? It happens.
> 
> ...



A deposit was placed for a guitar and the base prices for orders was $3k. The guy does not have the guitar and he was told the base price is now $5k. Want to dispute it? Ask the guy that posted it and is trying to sell the build spot, I'm just repeating what was said.

Also thanks for telling me what I have to be ok with. I certainly do not have to be ok with a blind auction of completed guitars, and in fact I'm not. As I said it opens up the door for all kinds of shady shit to go on and further opens the door for the really shady guitar flippers to massively inflate prices. I'm not accusing anybody of anything, just saying it is entirely possible when doing business like that.

I honestly have no problem with Vik's builds, they look great and I've talked to people whose judgement I trust that have said they're really nice playing guitars. I just have no interest in doing business with the guy


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## Danukenator (Nov 21, 2013)

MikeH said:


> Forgive my ignorance, but why does it matter that the wood was air-dried for 8 years? Does that make it more stable than drying it conventionally, or are people just amazed that he held on to it for 8 years and then put it on a guitar?



In a nut shell, wood that has dried has had the resins in it crystallize. This is why acoustic builders prefer older woods and especially violin builders. Ignoring the debate on tone wood, air dried wood has been said to have a superior tone to kiln dried.

I'm getting this form a local acoustic guitar building company with an insanely talented luthier as the head of the company.


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## Eclipse (Nov 21, 2013)

Such class.


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## Watty (Nov 21, 2013)

MikeH said:


> Forgive my ignorance, but why does it matter that the wood was air-dried for 8 years? Does that make it more stable than drying it conventionally, or are people just amazed that he held on to it for 8 years and then put it on a guitar?



See D's response for the reason why it's better than not letting the wood season. However, the way Vik phrased it was hyping the fact that he has been sitting on it for that long....so, it is sort of silly.

"Hey guys, I did what a proper luthier should always try to do on an instrument for which I'm charging this amount, LOOK AT MEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!"


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## capoeiraesp (Nov 21, 2013)

technomancer said:


> A deposit was placed for a guitar and the base prices for orders was $3k. The guy does not have the guitar and he was told the base price is now $5k. Want to dispute it? Ask the guy that posted it and is trying to sell the build spot, I'm just repeating what was said.
> 
> Also thanks for telling me what I have to be ok with. I certainly do not have to be ok with a blind auction of completed guitars, and in fact I'm not. As I said it opens up the door for all kinds of shady shit to go on and further opens the door for the really shady guitar flippers to massively inflate prices. I'm not accusing anybody of anything, just saying it is entirely possible when doing business like that.
> :



Shady guitar flippers? Never!


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## capoeiraesp (Nov 22, 2013)

and then this comes along.

Vik Saviour 7FF | eBay


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## s4tch (Nov 22, 2013)

Oh my.


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## HighGain510 (Nov 22, 2013)

capoeiraesp said:


> and then this comes along.
> 
> Vik Saviour 7FF | eBay



This is part of why I'm glad Stealth and Engage performed enough shady business and bullshit on here to get the boot. That type of flipping is exactly what I (and many others here) absolutely cannot stand. Douche plans the run, waits for the backlog to kick up, prices go up a bit and he tries to ask 2x the price of the NEW, more expensive pricing (keeping in mind he got in back when it was still like $4K or less too, correct?)?! .... off, seriously.  He actually sent me a message once asking why I was so against flipping the way they do... you've added ZERO value to the guitar since you picked it up, and you try to flip it usually weeks (days? sometimes BEFORE you even received it?!) within receipt of the guitar to people who either REALLY wanted one and missed out or are too stupid to realize they're over-paying (90% of the cases, as far as I can tell, sadly... ) and you see ZERO issue with taking them for a ride? Nope, just... nope. I also love that with the constant complaints about his medical issue, which if valid definitely sucks, causing him to not be able to play ANYTHING seems to have zero bearing on him continuing to grab up pieces, mark them up and attempt to flip them for 2x+ what he paid for them. The thing that is the most annoying is that folks are suckered in and PAY IT?!  Lots of ignorant consumers out there these days, and it's rather unfortunate because by not doing your homework, you're basically paying the idiot tax.  

Until people stop paying their ridiculously marked-up prices, the cycle will continue and those idiots will keep making money off of folks who either don't care if they've over-spending a ton for something that's likely not worth their asking price or they're just ignorant of market pricing on the item they're trying to buy. I'm sure some folks are going to go straight to, "But... but... they're just using eBay for advertising! They don't REALLY expect to get that, they just want offers!" which is still a cop-out as that's against eBay terms of service, not to mention still being a pretty scummy thing to do in the first place. They're no better than the back-room builders running all these pseudo auctions behind the scenes, IMO.


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## Walterson (Nov 22, 2013)

capoeiraesp said:


> and then this comes along.
> 
> Vik Saviour 7FF | eBay



Maybe he likes this one more:

Vik Guitars Caprice T Owned by Jeff Kollman Very RARE 3 Year Wait | eBay

(which he bought a month ago, for a little less than 10.000$)


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## Rook (Nov 22, 2013)

HighGain510 said:


> I also love that with the constant complaints about his medical issue, which if valid definitely sucks, causing him to not be able to play ANYTHING seems to have zero bearing on him continuing to grab up pieces, mark them up and attempt to flip them for 2x+ what he paid for them.



He did have nerve damage, he still can't play at all sometimes and is flat on his back, but it's getting better.

Sorry, I'll shut up again now


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## theo (Nov 22, 2013)

He does legitimately have nerve damage. 
As for the vik, it's either pay a higher price or wait for around 4 years for your turn in line.


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## skeels (Nov 22, 2013)

It makes my greedy - read, destitute - side want to build some cheap knock offs and spin em for cash.

But truthfully that design just doesn't do much for me. 

Ot, I watched Adam Gravett from Aura Guitars take my money and my guitar and patiently watched him build some stuff for other people and then he ended up just burning me.

Got no love.


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## Rook (Nov 22, 2013)

Ok I'm back, sorry.

My experience with Vik sucked. I signed up for a spot, gave rough spec, he kinda beats around giving me a price (says about $3500) and disappears. No comments on spec, just accepts that I've submitted some.
6 Months later 'NEW POLICY, YOU SEND MONEY NOW'
"but vik, you haven't formally quoted me yet"...
We go through the spec'ing process, I ask for things like fanned frets and I asked for 27 frets too 'no, fanned frets will be too much, no I don't do 27 frets, no I won't do a longer scale than 27", I think a koa top will cost too much, have maple instead"
Right, funny that because my good buddy tom has a fanned 9 that's like 29" on the lowest string from you, isn't that weird?
I settle and say 'ok, 27" straight fret 8, whatever, I don't care about fanned frets that much" (and I don't) I pay him $700 and apparently I'm now 14 months timeline guaranteed.

HE STILL HASN'T GIVEN ME A FINAL NUMBER (yeah I know, I'm an idiot)

6 Months later (bearing in mind my guitar's now due in 8 months) he hasn't answered spec questions, I email him saying I wanna get it nailed, apparently I'm looking at $4800 even though I can't have koa, fan, whatever'

Yeah ok, I'm out. Everyone I know at this point is apparently in contact with Vik and he's a great guy, not gunna name names but for some reason I know a load of Vik customers and they all love him. I sell my slot, to someone who seems to be on good terms with the guy and has the slot immediately after mine (hey Lorcan), I figure I'd rather have my money somewhere else and I've got other things I want to do with my life.

It's now (now now, sorry, I keep using confusing timing references) been 20 months since I signed up and 14 since I was 'timeline guaranteed' and as far as I know the build hasn't even started, I'd have to double check with lorcy lorcy though.

I don't buy into this auctiony poo, I don't buy into this 'I'm a super duper guitar builder so I can treat you like crap' mentality, and no disrespect to Tom (W), his guitar is bloody great and very original, perfectly well built, but I think a lot of what I liked about Tom's guitar was a direct result of Tom's design and it was Vik's build and his willingness to go along with that that I was quite attracted to in all honesty. I can live without one though.

I have to say also, someone mentioned Ola and the B-Stock berg. That wasn't an auction type listing, it was a 'is there actually anyone interested, if so give me an idea what this is worth' thing, when he already had a number in mind. I email'd him with interest, not a bid, asking what he wanted for it and he said 'I was thinking about $2800 and people seem to be telling me that's reasonable' and I could have wired him the money there and then and it'd have been done.

Every single email I've sent to Ola has gotten a reply, every stupid idea I come up with for my build gets a response and he never says 'no', only ever 'I like the idea, it might work better if we do [x] instead of [y] because of [z]'. I don't know about other people's experiences of the man, but I've had a lot to do with him compared to the average wait-lister the last year or so (because of number 6 and so on) and he's only ever been good, I feel like he's grateful for my business and he wants to deliver the best guitar for me.

/mini rant

I apologise if I used any hyperbolic language there, I got quite annoyed half way through writing my mini Vik rant. He could be great, I have no idea, my perhaps isolated experience of him has made me quite bitter about the guy and all the stuff I see him doing and watching his prioritising and workflow just annoys me straight up - it doesn't surprise me to see the people who fall right of Vik bigging him up, it looks from here like he treats them very well.

Sorry I've started ranting again.


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## Winspear (Nov 22, 2013)

Rook said:


> Ok I'm back, sorry.



 I got in at a good time and got lucky I guess. What's going on sucks and I can't really disagree with anything said in this thread. I do feel bad for convincing at least two people to get involved in this mess. Things have changed and I don't see my next build slot finishing up for a very good while - but as somebody else said similarly - I'm sure it will be done eventually, I'm in no rush, and really can't imagine the guitar in mind being anything but a ViK, for me.
I really hope things start tidying up soon!


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## Rook (Nov 22, 2013)

Reasonable Winspear rides again


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## ramses (Nov 22, 2013)

capoeiraesp said:


> and then this comes along.
> 
> Vik Saviour 7FF | eBay



That guitar was finished this week. I wonder how Vik feels about this? Maybe that's why he is doing his own auctions.


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## Rook (Nov 22, 2013)

Considering Methlab was told in March his guitar would be shipped in a week I'd imagine he doesn't give half a turd what vikyvik thinks; don't let me put words in his mouth though.


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## asfeir (Nov 22, 2013)

Any idea what's behind the "VIK guitars USA" name on his NAMM invitation?
Is he relocating to the US?


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## Rook (Nov 22, 2013)

Add that to him wanting to be paid in USD, I'd suggest so.


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## thrsher (Nov 22, 2013)

id personally rather be paid in euro, stronger currency,

ultimately vik is leaving a bad taste in the mouths of his customers. push came to shove, id sell a guitar that has such a bad aura to me personally. everytime i play that guitar, im gonna remember all of this. mehtab odviously buys/sells but he is also washing his hands clean of a shitty situation.


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## technomancer (Nov 22, 2013)

thrsher said:


> id personally rather be paid in euro, stronger currency,
> 
> ultimately vik is leaving a bad taste in the mouths of his customers. push came to shove, id sell a guitar that has such a bad aura to me personally. everytime i play that guitar, im gonna remember all of this. mehtab odviously buys/sells but he is also washing his hands clean of a shitty situation.



Who are you kidding, he's doing what he's been doing, grabbing a rare / sought after guitar and trying to flip it for a massive profit. Or have you missed his other Viks, UV swirl, early Suhr, etc he's done the same thing with.


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## thrsher (Nov 22, 2013)

technomancer said:


> Who are you kidding, he's doing what he's been doing, grabbing a rare / sought after guitar and trying to flip it for a massive profit. Or have you missed his other Viks, UV swirl, early Suhr, etc he's done the same thing with.



28 months ago, when he organized his run, i don't believe that was his intentions back then, since then though, buying/selling has what he has become. i completely agree with you. i dont recall him doing all that shit back then.


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## Negav (Nov 22, 2013)

Reading all of this thread all I could think of was "Vik Rico Jr.?". I used to want a Vik, but with all these events I think I'd rather just appreciate their beauty.


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## technomancer (Nov 22, 2013)

thrsher said:


> 28 months ago, when he organized his run, i don't believe that was his intentions back then, since then though, buying/selling has what he has become. i completely agree with you. i dont recall him doing all that shit back then.



Oh I don't think he set up the run with the intention to do this. Listing it for a ridiculous price was definitely not out of character though, and I really doubt it had anything to do with "washing his hands clean of a shitty situation." Keep in mind he bought that last Vik a couple months ago and was hyping it up and had it listed BEFORE HE EVEN RECEIVED THE GUITAR. It's plain and simple profiteering.


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## Winspear (Nov 22, 2013)

technomancer said:


> I really doubt it had anything to do with "washing his hands clean of a shitty situation."



It definitely did. It is of course in character but I've talked to him plenty about this.


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## Gilbertsgotbrootz (Nov 22, 2013)

Mehtab ordered that guitar years ago i am sure little 18yo mehtab was like i am gonna spend 3k on a guitar and list it for 10k in the year i was quoted . I personally wouldnt want it either after waiting as long as he did . Oh Yeah i also forgot, you guys have magical powers that let you skip a 4 year wait and pay old pricing? Hmmmm that's right you can't . So it doesn't matter what viks used to sell for it matters what they sell for now. The past couple viks have been well over 5k he's sold . No different than doug his guitars use to be a couple grand ...... I know of people who have been offered 15k for there and 17k but because they just bought them from doug last year that means they arent worth it right ? I also know of people that have been waiting on dougs list for years for a guitar. Its just the kinda shit you don't hear about because everyone is trying to hype them up.


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## ramses (Nov 22, 2013)

Gilbertsgotbrootz said:


> I also know of people that have been waiting on dougs list for years for a guitar. Its just the kinda shit you don't hear about because everyone is trying to hype them up.



Have they been waiting *after* paying a >$1000.00 deposit?


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## hairychris (Nov 22, 2013)

MikeH said:


> Forgive my ignorance, but why does it matter that the wood was air-dried for 8 years? Does that make it more stable than drying it conventionally, or are people just amazed that he held on to it for 8 years and then put it on a guitar?



A few other people have answered, but air drying in a stable atmosphere is the conventional/traditional method unless you have access to a kiln. The longer an air-dried piece of timber dries, the more stable it will generally be. You want some kick-ass rosewood or mahogany? Dismantle an 1800s piece of furniture for it!

8 years isn't an unusually long time to dry a piece of timber. Most, if not all, good luthiers will have a private stash of wood that's waiting for the right project, and they may keep hold of these for decades.


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## simonXsludge (Nov 22, 2013)

All of the things I learned from this thread just make me:


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## leonardo7 (Nov 22, 2013)

MikeH said:


> Forgive my ignorance, but why does it matter that the wood was air-dried for 8 years? Does that make it more stable than drying it conventionally, or are people just amazed that he held on to it for 8 years and then put it on a guitar?



Dried wood is lighter weight and a more clear sound. Nobody does this other than some custom luthiers or companies like PRS that do it for their Private Stock guitars which will get you up in to the 10k+ range depending on specs. Wood that has been dried for that long is going to be superior in tone, stability, and weight.



Negav said:


> Reading all of this thread all I could think of was "Vik Rico Jr.?". I used to want a Vik, but with all these events I think I'd rather just appreciate their beauty.



It can definitely come to mind but ViK Guitars and Rico Jr should not be used in the same sentence. Thats an absurd notion. ViK is taking longer than originally quoted but he's not some older been in the business for ages burnt out dude with an addiction problem who is running with peoples money. Putting the two side by side is just inappropriate 

ViK is going to be at NAMM this year under the name ViK Guitars USA. Thats a hint of where things are headed for his company. It does suck that some of you guys who truly are really great guys have had a bad experience and for those of you not wanting to give him your business, don't do it if you don't want to. But he's going to come though. Id say just have patience. Maybe Im just desensitized after waiting 6 years in Feb for my Sherman. Waiting 3 years when quoted 2 or less is not unheard of. It doesn't mean that the guy is going to turn in to a Sherman or Rico Jr at all. Builds are coming and they are going to be the best guitars you have ever had. He's been building for ten years but is still new to the game. There will be a day when we will be glad that we got our orders in when we did. I believe that and I know that I already am.

I didn't even know that a guitar could be so nice until I got my ViK. This is after owning and/or playing exceptional guitars such as PRS Private Stock, Schecter CS, Jackson CS, ESP CS, J Custom, LACS, Daemoness, KxK, Suhr, Blackmachine...

And his pickups, my GOD they are so responsive and clear sounding.


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## ItWillDo (Nov 22, 2013)

Gilbertsgotbrootz said:


> Oh Yeah i also forgot, you guys have magical powers that let you skip a 4 year wait and pay old pricing? Hmmmm that's right you can't



That's actually a good example of shady business:

- Have the customer make an early deposit to 'bind' him to the contract
- Have him wait for too long for the finished product and in the meanwhile push the prices up beyond the ones agreed upon because it's the 'new standard'.


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## leonardo7 (Nov 22, 2013)

My Duality slays every single guitar I have ever played. I swear it really does. It looks like my Saviour 8FF is going to be on display at NAMM, as is Lorcan's and a few others. Mine has a super rare Sabah Ebony top with Black Limba body and rosewood neck and ebony board. Look for it if your there. 



ItWillDo said:


> That's actually a good example of shady business:
> 
> - Have the customer make an early deposit to 'bind' him to the contract
> - Have him wait for too long for the finished product and in the meanwhile push the prices up beyond the ones agreed upon because it's the 'new standard'.



I think that was a misunderstanding. ViK never changed the price on anyone who paid a deposit and had specs agreed upon when they did so. That never happened. Its a rumor.

By the way, for anyone who thinks that PRS Private Stock sell for less than 10K, check this one out:

PRS Private Stock Brazilian - Modern Eagle, Purple Mist | Sweetwater.com


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## HighGain510 (Nov 22, 2013)

leonardo7 said:


> My Duality slays every single guitar I have ever played. I swear it really does. It looks like my Saviour 8FF is going to be on display at NAMM, as is Lorcan's and a few others. Mine has a super rare Sabah Ebony top with Black Limba body and rosewood neck and ebony board. Look for it if your there.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



PRS Private Stocks can (and do, I know from experience) sell for under $10K.


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## leonardo7 (Nov 22, 2013)

HighGain510 said:


> PRS Private Stocks can (and do, I know from experience) sell for under $10K.



Is it possible that they have gone up in price considerably then? This one is going for $11,500! Maybe cause of the Brazilian Rosewood then? I think its the same batch as that one on ebay


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## narad (Nov 22, 2013)

leonardo7 said:


> Is it possible that they have gone up in price considerably then? This one is going for $11,500! Maybe cause of the Brazilian Rosewood then? I think its the same batch as that one on ebay



Much lower than $10k on Ebay all day long, even new / unplayed examples.


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## themike (Nov 22, 2013)

leonardo7 said:


> Is it possible that they have gone up in price considerably then? This one is going for $11,500! Maybe cause of the Brazilian Rosewood then? I think its the same batch as that one on ebay




Brazillian rosewood is available on PRODUCTION guitars now, let alone Private Stocks. I know someone who just ordered a Brazilian rosewood *TOP* and yes, for under 10k. Sweetwater is a great company but their not very competitive with Private Stock guitars at all.


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## narad (Nov 22, 2013)

leonardo7 said:


> My Duality slays every single guitar I have ever played. I swear it really does. It looks like my Saviour 8FF is going to be on display at NAMM, as is Lorcan's and a few others. Mine has a super rare Sabah Ebony top with Black Limba body and rosewood neck and ebony board. Look for it if your there.



While that's pretty awesome and I wish I had thought to do a Saviour 8FF, I went to check out Vik's list to see where that order would be on the list:

vikguitars.com &bull; View topic - Projects on order

I'm doubtful that my guitar (at #4 there) will be done by NAMM, I don't see your slot and Lorcan's down at #18 & 19. Unless I'm missing something, pretty ridiculous stuff. Finger's crossed because otherwise I have to pay a 20% VAT importing it into the UK after I move in February. You know I just love throwing away a thousand dollars because builders are working on NAMM specials.


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## technomancer (Nov 22, 2013)

themike said:


> Brazillian rosewood is available on PRODUCTION guitars now, let alone Private Stocks. I know someone who just ordered a Brazilian rosewood *TOP* and yes, for under 10k. Sweetwater is a great company but their not very competitive with Private Stock guitars at all.
> 
> I believe that guitar is as expensive as it is because it might be international Brazilian rosewood, which comes with all the needed legal documentation to cross boarders. This makes it sought after because a lot of the words brazzy is reclaimed, and sometimes a pile of 200 year old wood doesn't always come with receipts



It's got the USA only on the back of the headstock. The brazilian neck does definitely add to the price though.

However if you pick up the phone you can likely get it for substantially less than that posted price... if you pay list for an in stock Private Stock from a dealer you've either got more money than you know what to do with or were too lazy to make a phone call and look around 

Then again that's true with most music products. If you call MF you can usually get 15% off of just about anything they have listed that's not already on sale


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## themike (Nov 22, 2013)

technomancer said:


> Not to mention if you pick up the phone you can like get it for substantially less than that posted price




Haha yeah, just like most other dealers they post MAP and not actual pricing on those things. But I also revisited the photos and that guitar is NOT international brazzy contrary to what your speedy, ninjaquoting abilities caught me saying


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## technomancer (Nov 22, 2013)

themike said:


> Haha yeah, just like most other dealers they post MAP and not actual pricing on those things. But I also revisited the photos and that guitar is NOT international brazzy contrary to what your speedy, ninjaquoting abilities caught me saying


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## themike (Nov 22, 2013)

And I may be wrong, but doesn't Stealth run the "Guitar Porn" Facebook group with Engage? And did that group hype to high heaven Vik doing a Q&A on there recently? Seems like he knew he was getting his soon and wanted to build a nice cushion before the flip!


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## thrsher (Nov 22, 2013)

narad said:


> While that's pretty awesome and I wish I had thought to do a Saviour 8FF, I went to check out Vik's list to see where that order would be on the list:
> 
> vikguitars.com &bull; View topic - Projects on order
> 
> I'm doubtful that my guitar (at #4 there) will be done by NAMM, I don't see your slot and Lorcan's down at #18 & 19. Unless I'm missing something, pretty ridiculous stuff. Finger's crossed because otherwise I have to pay a 20% VAT importing it into the UK after I move in February. You know I just love throwing away a thousand dollars because builders are working on NAMM specials.



THIS RIGHT HERE. MORE CUSTOMERS BEING SCREWED


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## Xaios (Nov 23, 2013)

themike said:


> And I may be wrong, but doesn't Stealth run the "Guitar Porn" Facebook group with Engage? And did that group hype to high heaven Vik doing a Q&A on there recently? Seems like he knew he was getting his soon and wanted to build a nice cushion before the flip!



Stealth and Engage aren't the only ones. In fact, one of them has posted in this very thread (not going to say who, in case he would rather remain anonymous).


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## Hollowway (Nov 23, 2013)

I have zero problem with luthiers increasing their prices to whatever the market will bear. That's the whole idea, really. It controls the quality of the instrument (because if the quality drops, so will demand, and in turn price). It controls the build time (because higher prices decrease demand). And it helps the luthier run a full time business. But it is also true that our particular group on here is apt to let the subjective, biased opinions of the few sway us all into believing that something is crap or godly. I've seen EMGs bashed to the point you almost couldn't give away an 808 a few years ago. And I've seen particular brands of guitars get hyped to the point it seems pretty evident there's a bubble. I've played enough high end guitars to believe that there is not going to be a noticeable playability difference between a $4000 and $10,000 guitar. I think it's great that Vik is able to get $10,000 for his guitars, if that's what people will pay, but I also think it's ridiculous to think that they're better than anything else out there.

On a separate note, I don't like the idea of using a guitar as a speculative investment. I don't like these auctions, and I don't like people "pumping and dumping" guitars during a flip. Guitars are meant to be a tool to create. If they are to be used as a work of art, or a piece of furniture, or a speculative investment, so be it. But it's disingenuous to try to combine them and say that brand X costs so much more because it plays better than anything else out there.


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## JP Universe (Nov 23, 2013)

EtherealEntity said:


> It definitely did. It is of course in character but I've talked to him plenty about this.



+1 I chat to him regularly and his distaste with Vik was evident through all stages of the build. He blocked him on FB as well....


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## Rook (Nov 23, 2013)

Xaios said:


> Stealth and Engage aren't the only ones. In fact, one of them has posted in this very thread (not going to say who, in case he would rather remain anonymous).



I assume you mean me?

There's nothing shady about guitar porn, we each contribute to it in our own way, it fun a vehicle for communication. We don't all sit around a big wooden table with our fingers splayed against one another discussing what evil things we're gunna do next in deep voices.

Zack organised the Vik q&a and it was some time ago now, a lot has transpired since then.

Anyway, I like to think I'm a very open and honest person, if I felt associating with something or someone would be something I'd want to hide I just wouldn't do it. I don't really take part in the hype and mass trading (not to say I haven't done a few trades over the years) but if that's what Zack and Mehtab want to do then that's up to them. My relationship is certainly stronger with Mehtab, I don't really have a lot to do with Zack, and at the end of the day the guy's buying rare guitars, normally because he likes them, then *tries* to sell them on for a profit. His crazy advertised prices make for some amusing conversation on the page (check out the 'talking about this' number, that's what it's all about with social media) but I don't know that anybody here has ever actually found out what his guitars have sold for.

Frankly, my view toward Mehtab is that he's _just_ selling very rare guitars, very niche usually, and quite frequently, we're not talking about human trafficking or drug smuggling here, and the only people that ever engage him in his sales are the people who have that kind of money spare - usually adults and with a large chuck of spare cash.

Anyway, I don't know why I'm justifying myself to the Internet. If anybody cares that I'm part of the guitar porn Facebook then there you go, I am.

EDIT: My 'rep' doesn't bother me, but I have to say anonymously negging me with insults doesn't really help anything, a post in the thread might have been a little more reasonable - not 'complaining about rep', just saying talking to me might have been more constructive...

EDIT EDIT: Yep, staying anonymous, ok.


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## Lorcan Ward (Nov 23, 2013)

Just chiming in my build won't be at NAMM.

@Narad @ Thrsher if your guitars are nearly done and you don't mind it being at a show played by a lot of people send Vik message asking if he wants to use it at NAMM. That way Alain or you(if you're going) could pick it up at the end. At Messe the 6 & 8 string had been played until the strings were rock solid but the guitars and fretwork were perfect. IMO its worth it if you want your guitars finished and would also save VIK having to ship guitars back to Belaurs.

@Rook Thats really weird you weren't able to choose those specs when he has several fanned builds with very expensive tops in the works. I haven't talked to him about specs but since i'm moving out and pushing my own business soon I won't be looking for more guitars anytime soon. 

We all knew Mehtab would sell his Vik straight away. I'm trying to convince him to keep it but if your not a really serious player than it would be hard to justify keeping it. Especially when you can flip it for nearly a 50% profit. 

I'm very interested in what VIK Guitar USA is about. My guess is he's been looking at what Ola Strandberg is doing with Washburn and that might explain what the in-stock QM Duality was for. I'm not sure branching out is the best idea when he has a lot of orders and it takes some serious business skills to set up a partnership like this. 

Vik has been very busy the last year and a half with being in hospital, recovering, moving workshop etc. Building in-stocks and Messe builds when he has such a backlog of orders is something he really shouldn't be doing. As a guitar luthier your reputation is about as thin as ice. Make a few bad moves and you will pay for it. Look at Strictly 7, Invictus etc. They went from popular and in demand to avoid at all costs because of some poor easily avoidable decisions. Neglecting your customers is the biggest mistake in business you can make and one you will really pay for in the long-run.


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## technomancer (Nov 23, 2013)

Rook said:


> I assume you mean me?
> 
> There's nothing shady about guitar porn, we each contribute to it in our own way, it fun a vehicle for communication. We don't all sit around a big wooden table with our fingers splayed against one another discussing what evil things we're gunna do next in deep voices.



Nothing shady? So posting people's photos without permission to promote what is basically a set up to flip guitars then refusing to take them down when asked with a justification that once a photo is posted publicly it's public domain isn't shady?


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## Rook (Nov 23, 2013)

^Not something I have anything to do with. Like I say, we don't sit around a big table talking about this stuff. People send us literally hundreds of their own personal guitar photos every day asking us to post them, which I do, and people enjoy seeing their stuff thrown out into a widely viewed public domain and the conversation that follows.

We've also attracted a huge amount of attention to people like Ola Strandberg, as well as our own Francesco and the like who I feel deserve it and I like to think they've benefitted from that. I don't wish to take credit in any way for their success, but if we're helping that that could only be positive.

I don't know anything about these images used without permission, I assume you're referring a specific incident, if I were to post something and the owner of the image came forth and wanted it removed I'd take it down, it's no skin off my nose. You have to remember that Facebook page, while some use it as a hub for second hand gear sales, is a huge forum for sharing gear (in pictures) and talking about it, it's not like I make money out of it.

Like I say, this isn't like google spying on you, Monsanto claiming your crops as theirs or Cadbury's killing all those children with poison chocolate... And not to be facetious, but your shady example appears to be the posting of an inanimate object - presumably a guitar - on a Facebook page that people probably liked and commented on. I honestly don't know anything about it.

I'm a conversation junkie, all I ever want to do is talk about gear. Guitars, amps, pickups, tone, more recently camera stuff, and the majority of the other moderators (we're in double figures) are the same.


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## technomancer (Nov 23, 2013)

Rook said:


> ^Not something I have anything to do with. Like I say, we don't sit around a big table talking about this stuff. People send us literally hundreds of their own personal guitar photos every day asking us to post them, which I do, and people enjoy seeing their stuff thrown out into a widely viewed public domain and the conversation that follows.
> 
> We've also attracted a huge amount of attention to people like Ola Strandberg, as well as our own Francesco and the like who I feel deserve it and I like to think they've benefitted from that. I don't wish to take credit in any way for their success, but if we're helping that that could only be positive.
> 
> ...



Thanks for trying to make it sound like I'm a conspiracy nut when I tell you one of your non-shady fellow admins was a complete dick to somebody that made a reasonable request with regards to copyrighted content. They weren't my photos, but it really was a ridiculous (and legally incorrect) response to a reasonable request from somebody who saw their pics were being used somewhere they didn't want them to be


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## Rook (Nov 23, 2013)

That wasn't my intention, you'll have to excuse the way I talk.

Honestly, I don't know anything about that particular incident. I just didn't particularly like being blanket accused of shadiness or dishonesty or something because of the reputation a few of my peers seem to have acquired over the last few months or years or however long.

If yourself or others have any questions, queries or complaints about my practices or associations in a public sense I just want to clarify these are things I never want to appear to be shying away from. Like I said earlier on when my association with GP was first hinted at, if I felt like I was doing something I wanted to hide I just wouldn't do it.

I again apologise if I appeared to tar anyone with an unfavourable brush, not my intention.

Except my Vik rant, in that case it was clearly my intention haha.


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## technomancer (Nov 23, 2013)

It's all good... and  at the Vik rant


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## ramses (Nov 23, 2013)

I'm just hoping that things like these won't happen to customers of the two luthiers whose queue I'm in.

People should be honest and use this forum to talk about these problems, so that fellow guitarists won't suffer the same. From what I have seen, the pattern is that usually one or two people let others know about the issues, and a bunch of non-customers calling them liars, sadly. Also some customers trying to defend their "investment" by contradicting the ones that bring out the problems.

The latter case should not be, because bad business practices from a luthier does not devalue the guitars  in my experience , assuming that the guitars are indeed of high quality. One example of this are BRJ guitars: they sell for >$3000.00 after the debacle, and after reports of bad QA in the latter years of the company.


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## themike (Nov 23, 2013)

I wonder how long the Robbins Guitars wait list is....


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## Xaios (Nov 23, 2013)

Rook said:


> I assume you mean me?
> 
> There's nothing shady about guitar porn, we each contribute to it in our own way, it fun a vehicle for communication. We don't all sit around a big wooden table with our fingers splayed against one another discussing what evil things we're gunna do next in deep voices.



Yes, I did. My apologies though, re-reading my earlier post, I made it sound way more sinister than I intended to. I didn't mention you by name specifically because, what with the tone this thread had taken on, I didn't want to make it seem like I was trying to persecute you.


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## MaxOfMetal (Nov 23, 2013)

Internet = Serious Business 

Vik is an asshole, always was, (he was banned on here a few times for getting testy with members, especially after he shipped a guitar poorly which broke) as well as opting for the "hire a shill" form of marketing that just sits so well with a tight community.  His recent, rather hypocritical, explosion over guitar shapes and recent auction-while-ignoring-customers business style is even more of an insight into the quality of his personality. That said, he isn't Hitler, nor is he a hack luthier. Just a common, everyday asshole. I'm kind of an asshole too, so I know it when I see it.  

Zach and Mehtab? They're kind of douches. It's okay, it kind of comes with the territory (unfortunately) when you have the kind of disposable income they have and the veil of the internet. Once again, I'm not saying they're guilty of raping-12-year-old-cancer-victim-type offenses, that's just silly, but they are at it for hype and personal gain. I actually kind of miss having Mehtab around here sometimes, at least the old Mehtab who would troll a little, crack jokes, and overall be a fun guy to have a round, not the uber-shill he's become more recently. I don't miss Zach though, WAAAAAAAAAYYY too much drama and baggage for a guy who did little more that sell stuff on here and take great pictures of awesome guitars. No member is worth the hassle. A lot of the uber-flippers (and they sure as heck know who they are ) bring that kind of drama, I have an entire inbox full of BS to prove it. Maybe if I was getting paid to mediate this place I'd be okay with it, but I hate being the forum version of the Paypal help desk. 

Hey Leonardo7, good job keeping your cool this time. I was almost ready to bet on you going on a neg-spree again. I'm not being sarcastic, it's good to see folks calm down a little on the Internet and not take everything so incredibly personally. Vik has obviously done right by you, and that's the kind of thing that should be extended to all customers, even the most difficult and ornery ones.


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## Watty (Nov 23, 2013)

themike said:


> I wonder how long the Robbins Guitars wait list is....



I did, legitimately, laugh out loud when I read this in conjunction with the rest of the thread...


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## Chris (Nov 23, 2013)

Remember when we all just tried to help each other out, hook our fellow guitarists up with cool guitars at fair prices, and didn't constantly talk up custom shops for the sole purpose of flipping them quickly and screwing other guitarists out of as much money as possible?

Those were good days.


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## Adam Of Angels (Nov 23, 2013)

With that notion, Chris, I felt this to be a reasonable place to inject this:

I consider myself very pragmatic, and while there is nothing illegal or morally wrong with offering somebody a guitar at a higher price than you paid for it, assuming they agree to the price willingly, my problem with this sort of thing is this (this will start off sort of off-topic, but I promise it will get back on track ):

1. Buying a guitar for the sole purpose of selling it at a profit robs somebody who intends to play the guitar of the opportunity to buy it at a good price. There have been several occasions where I came across a guitar I had been looking for at a great price, only to see one of the many flippers grab it and put it up for sale at a higher price almost immediately. In the case of the Vik guitar that we've been talking about, somebody who would have loved to own and play the guitar could have been part of the run, rather than somebody who knew they would more than likely flip it. To be sure, I think there is a large difference between this and somebody buying a guitar, playing it for a long time, or soon after receiving it deciding that they don't like it, and accepting an OFFER that is more valuable than what they have into it. You know, it's like, if you just bought a guitar for $3k and simply do not like it, then sell it for $3k. Or, put it up for trade so that you can switch it out for something you do like, and maybe somebody will knowingly offer you something more valuable for it because they really want what you have. But listing a guitar on the same forum you just bought it from at a higher price is essentially the same as a slap in the face to anybody who may have been interested in it to begin with.

..and this sort of leads me to my next point:

2. Most regulars on the forums know that I trade and sometimes sell a lot of guitars, but when a lot of these flippers started posting a lot of gear, I noticed that some folks sort of treated me poorly as if I were doing the same thing as them, or I have heard comments made behind my back make their way around to me. To be sure, I very regularly sell/trade guitars at a value equal to or lesser than what I have into them, although like anybody else, I won't turn down a strong offer that is tipped in my favor, so long as its understood by both parties. However, I think the main difference, and sort of the point of this rant, is that I love guitars and I own almost nothing else. Money is not as important to me as guitars and music, and that's the way it SHOULD be in these communities. When a bunch of guys are obviously out to make money off of everybody else, whether they are gear flippers or guitar builders, it tends to result in more and more people feeling somewhat cautious about who they deal with, and sort of takes the fun out of trading/buying new guitars to try out (yes, like any addiction, trading gear is genuinely fun - or at least it can be if everybody is on the same page). I could be _completely_ wrong about this, but if Vik was passionate about building guitars and putting them in the hands of players who can make the most of them, or just thoroughly enjoy them, would his prices have gone up 3-fold in a matter of 2 or 3 years (where at the beginning of that time frame, he was relatively unknown)? It seems to me that the money becomes more important than the craft. Now, that is not a pragmatic assumption on my part, but it would seem that way, and I am simply not interested in buying from a builder who's main motivation is money, in the same way that I wouldn't marry a girl who's main motivation was money. 

Again, there really isn't anything inherently wrong about marking the price up on something you own or have made, because the buyer doesn't have to agree with your price... but there is something distasteful about trying to make personal gains off of your piers. I'm not judging anybody in particular, by the way - I'm just making a general observation about this whole way of thinking, because it has actually had a negative effect on me.


As for the Vik being sold for $10k or whatever - I would never pay that much for a single guitar unless it had some excellent sentimental or historical value to it, but I'm sure somebody on this planet IS willing to pay that much for it. I say that as long as they know what the original cost of it was, and are ok with paying $10k on the grounds that it will be next to impossible to buy another one on demand, then more power to them and everybody involved. It's a capitalist market, right?



Edit: oh, and I forgot the most important point of this that I meant to make - in this post-Pawn Stars world lol, I wouldn't suggest that buying something at a super ridiculous low price and selling it for fair market value is wrong. However, when you buy something for a reasonable, fair market value, and then jack the price up beyond fair market value to make a profit, it's a slap in the face. Likewise, when you build and offer guitars at a certain price, generate a lot of interest in them in short order, and then jack the prices up before you really have any time to maintain a solid reputation, it comes across as distasteful to the guitar-playing community. It's also a near non-sustainable business model. Especially when you aren't able to manage a large work load to begin with.


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## Watty (Nov 23, 2013)

For what it's worth Adam, you might be involved in the same general "business" as Zach and others, but I wouldn't necessarily lump you in with them insofar as the intent behind it goes, especially to the degree that they peddle. (Edit: As you essentially indicated above)



Chris said:


> screwing other guitarists out of as much money as possible?



What's even more comical about most of these people is that they don't need the money either. I know there's loads of guys on forums like these that have plenty of money to throw around, but don't as it's irresponsible. Zach and Mehtab seem to think that they're more public use of their resources is somehow a thing to be admired and appreciated at the end of the day...it'd be easy for me to buy up several custom guitars to photograph and sit on for weeks until someone was stupid enough to pay my asking price to skip a wait list (etc), but I honestly don't see the point.



themike said:


> I wonder how long the Robbins Guitars wait list is....



To answer in all seriousness, I think he's taken on one person after mine was done and had maybe one other on the line before that. He still hasn't opened his general wait list either; so no funny business a la trying to inflate the demand on his end. I wouldn't be surprised if he only takes orders for acoustics from here on out anyways...


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## NovaLion (Nov 23, 2013)

Seems like there is entirely too much drama/baggage going on behind the scenes here, so to speak. I've had my eyes on Vik's work for a while but I'd never done a whole lot of research until very recently (I've been saving disposable income for a bit). Between the "bidding wars" from the dealer himself and the flippers, and the queue that apparently never moves, it looks like I'm going to have to look elsewhere for my custom.


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## Watty (Nov 23, 2013)

NovaLion said:


> Seems like there is entirely too much drama/baggage going on behind the scenes here, so to speak. I've had my eyes on Vik's work for a while but I'd never done a whole lot of research until very recently (I've been saving disposable income for a bit). Between the "bidding wars" from the dealer himself and the flippers, and the queue that apparently never moves, it looks like I'm going to have to look elsewhere for my custom.



On that note, I'd suggest looking into Ormsby. I'm in on the 2014 run he's doing and so far (whether directly or no) he's revealed among other things that:

1) He's not open to taking bribes for special privileges (skipping the line, etc).
2) He's not in the business of taking excess/unreasonable payment on the front end.


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## Danukenator (Nov 23, 2013)

Watty said:


> 1) He's not open to taking bribes for special privileges (skipping the line, etc).



Well...who would admit to doing that?  

I'm not saying he does. I'm just saying that, if he did, it would probably be a good idea to say he doesn't.


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## Watty (Nov 24, 2013)

True, but the way he said it made me liable to believe him, as I'm sure everyone in the run will similarly attest.


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## Adam Of Angels (Nov 24, 2013)

I just wanted to add something to the mini-rant I posted last night:

I think the worst part of inflating prices beyond fair market value for the sake of making a profit is that if somebody actually buys the item at a higher price for whatever reason, and everybody can see what price they bought it for, then that particular item is going to have a higher perceived value going forward. In other words, somebody who might have been looking to buy said item for fair market value is now unable to afford it because of the newly inflated price. This is a part of capitalism, so again, there is nothing inherently wrong with it. Logically, I know I am voicing an unfounded concern, I just feel like there is something off about it... 

Anyway, I received a few angry responses to my previous post (outside of the forum - nobody from here.. So I guess folks just read this forum without participating), but I want to stress that I am not talking about anybody in particular (honestly - to each his own, so long as he can maintain his dignity. I don't judge, I just call it how it is. If somebody takes offense to what I said, it wasn't my intention to offend, and it's nothing personal - that's on them), I just wanted to chime in on the general concept of inflating gear prices in a market of piers for the sake of making a one time profit. In the example of builders that do this, they might sell a few pieces at the newly inflated price, but 9 times out of 10, interest in their product will wane to one degree or another, since it becomes harder and harder to justify a purchase when the price keeps going up. It becomes an even greater problem when you bring a bad attitude into the mix. I've always understood that if your talents are true, and your intention is to enjoy what you do while doing what you do to the best of your ability, while having everything you need taken care of, then success comes with time. 

Alright, that's all. Rant done.


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## Cloudy (Nov 24, 2013)

Business is business, hes at no shortage of customers for his price/build times.

I can't say it personally makes me happy that his guitars are out of my price bracket but I get it, if people liked my guitars that much I'd probably be charging an inflated price as well.

Basic supply & demand.

He makes beautiful guitars that I imagine play quite fantastically. If you don't want to pay the price tag you can always hop on another luthier ship for a build

my 2 cents.


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## Adam Of Angels (Nov 24, 2013)

I guess what I'm really talking about is this vicious cycle:

Builder: "Taking orders for guitars, $3k per build."

*build times stretch into infinity*

2nd hand owner: "Since you can't buy this anywhere, and wait times are extraordinary, who wants to offer me more than everybody else for my guitar?"

*sells for twice the builder's asking price*

Builder: "Taking orders again. Guitars are now $8k per build."

Etc., until some sort of implosion takes place.

------------

Now, as a guitar lover and collector/addict, I don't want to imagine a world where PRS did this in the early days - there would be almost no PRSi to go around. I know that I'm sort of criticizing capitalism in a way right now, but I think there is just a bit more than just honest capitalism involved in this. 

Oh well, I'd be willing to admit that I'm in the wrong about this, just throwing in my 2 cents as it stands at the moment.


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## narad (Nov 24, 2013)

Vik just posted this. Pretty sick when the camera's swinging around that top:

http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6ahCaN37gM

(not sure why my embedding's not working?)


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## leonardo7 (Nov 24, 2013)

Lets see if mine embeds

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6ahCaN37gM

Edit: How the hell do you embed? Why does it not work some of the time? Anyways, drool worthy vid thats for sure


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## Rook (Nov 24, 2013)

You need to use [youtubevid tags with the video code between the tags from youtube.


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## Roland777 (Nov 24, 2013)

Short of Conklin-territory (10k+ on the regular) I very rarely find custom prices outrageous. If you're a small scale luthier pouring your soul into your craft for the joy of it, you deserve to get paid, and paid what we as customers would refer to as "well". As a classically trained painter, I can relate - nothing is more infuriating than having someone oblivious to painting expecting to be able to hand you a shitty flashed red-eyed photograph and receive a masterpiece portrait for sub 1k. The materials, TnE and labour of the process makes the money you receive for the work anything but "easy" in the end. Alas, if you got the chops for it and the market demands it - charge em accordingly and enjoy

THAT SAID - the man's business practices and hilariously childish outburst concerning design-plagiarism (considering his aforementioned business model) ensures that he won't ever receive a dime from me. Your customers are your lifeblood, dont ever forget that. .... them and they .... you.


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## SavM (Nov 24, 2013)

He does make some very nice looking guitars! However everything I've read from the 28 month ongoing horror story to the "I've found you, you shameless piece of...." has just created bad vibes with me.
Anyway... Game of Thrones is on now


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## leonardo7 (Nov 24, 2013)

Roland777 said:


> Short of Conklin-territory (10k+ on the regular) I very rarely find custom prices outrageous. If you're a small scale luthier pouring your soul into your craft for the joy of it, you deserve to get paid, and paid what we as customers would refer to as "well". As a classically trained painter, I can relate - nothing is more infuriating than having someone oblivious to painting expecting to be able to hand you a shitty flashed red-eyed photograph and receive a masterpiece portrait for sub 1k. The materials, TnE and labour of the process makes the money you receive for the work anything but "easy" in the end. Alas, if you got the chops for it and the market demands it - charge em accordingly and enjoy
> 
> THAT SAID - the man's business practices and hilariously childish outburst concerning design-plagiarism (considering his aforementioned business model) ensures that he won't ever receive a dime from me. Your customers are your lifeblood, dont ever forget that. .... them and they .... you.



You would really let the way he publicly stated on his Facebook page his distaste for people who are copying his designs get in the way of owning an incredible guitar? I dont give a shit about what he says on his Facebook page about people copying his guitars, its non of my business. I still want his guitars 



SavM said:


> He does make some very nice looking guitars! However everything I've read from the 28 month ongoing horror story to the "I've found you, you shameless piece of...." has just created bad vibes with me.
> Anyway... Game of Thrones is on now



Using the words "horror story" is misleading. A 3 year instead of 2 year wait sucks big time, especially when 2-3 guys get their guitars while your still waiting, but in no way is it a "horror story". Jackson has done it and so have most custom shops. That term "horror story" is sort of reserved for situations like Invictus, BRJ, S7G, Sherman, all situations in which the buyers received shitty guitars or the company dissolved with people not getting anything. The 28 month story involves a guitar that is now nearly finished. Its not like he hasn't started it yet. The buyer just heard from him a few weeks ago and the project has been moving along. Im not saying that its OK, Im just saying that I see a lot of info in this thread that has turned in to misunderstood rumors.


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## BlackStar7 (Nov 24, 2013)

There was an interesting comment on that video of the Duality when he posted it on Facebook:


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## Lorcan Ward (Nov 24, 2013)

I really shouldn't have watched that video, major GAS! Thankfully its already sold.



leonardo7 said:


> Im just saying that I see a lot of info in this thread that has turned in to misunderstood rumors.



Thats the internet for you. Vik's now cost $10,000 and all Blackmachines were in fact made by Feline Guitars.


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## Jonathan20022 (Nov 24, 2013)

"One of a kind, *so far*"

I find that hilarious, that clearly suggests that this one of a kind unique piece will remain that way, until he finishes the next in stock to sell for auction rather than finish the queue. I have no part in this but as others have said not a dime out of my pocket will find it's way towards Vik. Always thought the Duality was a sick design and I've wanted to try one out, but for those prices and saying that Vik delivers what other custom builders of this caliber can't I'll pass. 

I'm far too impatient to wait years for a guitar to be made for me, at most a few months is how much I'd be happy with settling for. And as said before, the Private Stock at PRS has a very VERY reasonable turnaround time. Sure Vik is one guy, and PRS is a much larger group of builders. But guess what? In a market where you can get a guitar that in my opinion plays better than what a Vik will for the money, with less than 6 months of a wait time, I would take it in a heartbeat.

This is why I appreciate guys like Ola Strandberg with their complete transperancy, the man has nothing to hide and the way he runs his business shows as much. That's not very common nowadays, but if I were to look into a semi-custom instrument I would definitely be into his Production Boden line maybe even his full on Custom if in a few years the wait list gets trimmed down.

Anyone can speak highly of a great man who does good work, but when things go downhill like it has with other builders, not many want to be associated and jump shop or let go.

I feel like if he took a small wait list of less than 25 orders, he could compete with larger custom shops and offer some kind of comparable and reasonable turn around. While putting out in-stocks without the kind of accusations and discussion that will inevitably give him a negative rep around the already small niche market for these things.


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## narad (Nov 24, 2013)

Jonathan20022 said:


> But guess what? In a market where you can get a guitar that in my opinion plays better than what a Vik will for the money, with less than 6 months of a wait time, I would take it in a heartbeat.



Have you played a Vik? There's something a bit illogical if you haven't: you imagine what you want it to play like, then imagine the PRS playing better. I love the amount of people on Facebook chiming in on every blackmachine post, "You don't know what you're talking about - this is a masterpiece! Best guitars ever.", when statistically it's obvious most have not played one.

But aside from all that, digging through my old emails I was astounded to remember how great Vik's customer service was in 2011. There's so much negativity now that it was easy to forget. Plenty of reasonably long replies to nailing down my specs with like a day of turn around between each response, learning a lot about different woods and designs in the process. It's just a shame it is what it is now. I had an email a couple weeks ago saying there was progress and pics were incoming, then I see a Facebook post a few days later along the lines of "Processing so many pictures", and I got all giddy. Nope. That's for someone who is willing to pay a bunch of money _now_. 

So I'm still hoping these are just growing pains, but I'm not going to downplay the experience either. It hasn't been a nightmare, but it's not just a few people getting their guitars before me. I imagine it's more than a dozen, I can count 8 right now just thinking about it. And Leo - if your guitar is at NAMM then it's quite possible you could go from 0 to 3 Viks all within the span of me placing my deposit, which is ridiculous.


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## asfeir (Nov 24, 2013)

I don't get the PRS PS comparison btw. 5000$ for a VIK, If the hype is true, is not that much when you compare it to the other custom shops in Europe. 5000USD or 3700EUR won't get you a nicely spec'd Ruokangas, Huber, Hartung etc..


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## leonardo7 (Nov 24, 2013)

narad said:


> And Leo - if your guitar is at NAMM then it's quite possible you could go from 0 to 3 Viks all within the span of me placing my deposit, which is ridiculous.



Totally understandable and ridiculous to think of it that way for sure. My two Dualities I have now were not ordered and spec'd by me. The ViW was his first in-stock since he became a name and I bought that one in April '12. The Green one was actually already mostly built and then finished for promotional purposes at Messe. The neck was made for Tosin and then Tosin wanted a fanned so ViK was happy to put the neck aside and make Tosin what he wants, eventually. As far as my upcoming build, ViK really wanted it to be at NAMM so he is finishing it up, but hes been working on the neck slowly for a year now and the body was glued and cut a while back. Trust me, its been quite a while since I placed the order, you dont even want to know. I hope you get yours soon man. What are the specs?


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## themike (Nov 24, 2013)

BlackStar7 said:


> There was an interesting comment on that video of the Duality when he posted it on Facebook:




I'd love to know how he dries his wood for 8 years in a one man operation, or does he buy it from a supplier who states its dried for 8 years? I mean has Vik even been making guitars publicly for 8 years? 

And people keep bringing up PRS in this thread (I guess for price comparison?) so I'll just chime in for a second that they have a very important process for drying their guitars. They may not take 8 years to dry, but its done with sniper precision and brought down to [I believe] 7% moisture and each blank knocks like a woodblock and sustains longer than I care to hear - it's pretty impressive. 

Also here is an interesting tidbit about their lumber because education is our friend :



Michael Reed said:


> Depending on the type of wood and the age of the tree, it can vary quite a bit. The mahogany we use is generally 50&#8211;100 years old when it&#8217;s cut. Almost all of the mahogany we use now is FSC&#8211;certified (Forest Stewardship Council) and comes from Central America with a small amount coming out of Peru. The maple we use for our tops and necks is generally about the same age. The spruce we use for Acoustics is also FSC&#8211;certified and tends to be a little older, generally around 150&#8211;175 years old. Anything that comes from new wood goes through a lengthy drying process that can take up to a year in some cases. We do sometimes have salvaged wood and also reclaimed wood as well. All of our Brazilian rosewood falls into this category. Some may have been cut as long ago as 150&#8211;175 years. Our Indian rosewood comes from plantation grown trees generally not much older than 50 years, and some from wild trees that grew in India that the government harvests and sells at auction. All wild rosewood trees in India are owned by the government and are carefully managed for sustainability, so the supply there is very stable. We obviously have many other types of wood we use, but that is at least a brief overview.




That is their requirements for *PRODUCTION LINE* body wood!


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## Jonathan20022 (Nov 24, 2013)

narad said:


> Have you played a Vik? There's something a bit illogical if you haven't: you imagine what you want it to play like, then imagine the PRS playing better. I love the amount of people on Facebook chiming in on every blackmachine post, "You don't know what you're talking about - this is a masterpiece! Best guitars ever.", when statistically it's obvious most have not played one.



It's not illogical, I'm using reason like anyone else would without buying into the hype train for guitars and luthiers who manage a business this way. An instrument is only worth what a buyer is willing to pay for it, within reason of course. I've had the incredible chance to play two Private Stocks, and I can without a doubt say that they're easily one of the nicest guitars I've ever laid hands on. They may not be my thing long term, I'm much more into shredder's guitars with insane playability and the sound I look for. 

If you as a customer are looking into a *high end instrument*, rather than specifically a *Vik*. I would point you to other builders and custom shops that offer equal if not better service and instruments. I don't see why musicians have accepted the notion of waiting so long and paying as much as you do, sometimes blindly for a high quality instrument. I'm not making baseless claims just to stir the rumor mill, I literally ....ing despise that and nothing pisses me off more than people most times younger musicians idolizing certain instruments as the holy grail. Most times with NO experience whatsoever.

Simply put, if you have the patience and specifically want a Vik then that's on you. But the matter of the fact is that he's not the holy grail and the best guitar builder out there right now, there is no such thing. 

I doubt most of the people in this thread are involved or have played a Vik before anyways. So that's why 2 cents.


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## Lorcan Ward (Nov 24, 2013)

Jonathan20022 said:


> I doubt most of the people in this thread are involved or have played a Vik before anyways. So that's why 2 cents.



You still haven't answered if you've played a Vik yet?


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## narad (Nov 24, 2013)

Jonathan20022 said:


> I'm not making baseless claims just to stir the rumor mill, I literally ....ing despise that and nothing pisses me off more than people most times younger musicians idolizing certain instruments as the holy grail. Most times with NO experience whatsoever.



If you're making a comparison between two things and you don't have any experience with one of them, that's pretty baseless. You can't say that a PRS PS is "a guitar that in my opinion plays better than what a Vik will for the money" when you haven't played a Vik. That's nonsense.


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## skeels (Nov 24, 2013)

Jonathan20022 said:


> ...the fact is that he's not the holy grail and the best guitar builder out there right now, there is no such thing...


 

This right here. 

Nope, I've never played one of his guit-boxes. Neither have I played a Blackmachine. Or a KxK for that matter. Frankly, I haven't played a lot of guitars. Certainly not enough to be considered an expert by any means- not by the standards set by "experts" anyways.

I am not really keen on dropping that kind of cash on an instrument I can't rightly vouch for in the first place. Not that I would.. Seems kind of stuffy to me. A good player can take a beater and make it sound good. 

Sure, there are players that want the "best" that they can get. Or at least something "special", if not "nice". You go. 

Do I really care about his prices? Nope. Do I really care if they are inflated from 3 or 4 K to 9 or 10 K? Nope. I'm too cheap, stubborn or broke to care that much. 

Am I being a snob? Is this the reverse side of the same coin? 

Guess what? Don't care.

Maybe you shouldn't either.


"You" meaning "us". Not anyone in particular. Just seems like this has turned into another exciting episode of "SSO 90210"


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## Jonathan20022 (Nov 24, 2013)

drawnacrol said:


> You still haven't answered if you've played a Vik yet?





narad said:


> If you're making a comparison between two things and you don't have any experience with one of them, that's pretty baseless. You can't say that a PRS PS is "a guitar that in my opinion plays better than what a Vik will for the money" when you haven't played a Vik. That's nonsense.



I meant to put that in my previous post, no I have not in fact played a Vik guitars before. Sorry if I didn't make that more clear or evident before.

And I still believe that, because simply put there isn't some magical technique Vik uses to make these guitars play and sound the way they do. Well, sans the pickup winding because that's something you can choose to voice any way you prefer. He's just a great luthier who makes sure that there aren't faults in the build, and sets them up really well to make them play the way they do.

What if I end up getting my hands on a Vik and it's disappointing because of it's travel from the origin country to mine? Would that make my opinion baseless also if the action was high and there was a bow in the neck? It's a guitar guys, he's not reinventing the wheel or anything, he's just doing what I think EVERY luthier should be doing. Make sure the build isn't botched up before it leaves the shop, and keep the quality consistent. The fact that I haven't played one before doesn't diminish my point. You're basically saying that every comparison between pieces of gear is baseless and incorrect if they haven't been played side by side, which I should agree with you to some degree. You should play a guitar or be familiar with it before laying down some hard cash for it, that's the ideal situation for any guitarist. But sadly in most cases, and in this one especially, that just isn't possible.

I understand your point, I haven't played it so I shouldn't run my mouth. I just don't buy into hype, especially the kind of hype where it requires me to invest thousands and a ridiculous amount of time before I can see the product of both those things


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## Andromalia (Nov 24, 2013)

Adam Of Angels said:


> This is a part of capitalism, so again, there is nothing inherently wrong with it.



Maybe you just put the finger on it, actually. But I'm just an evil french commie who knows nothing


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## Roland777 (Nov 25, 2013)

leonardo7 said:


> You would really let the way he publicly stated on his Facebook page his distaste for people who are copying his designs get in the way of owning an incredible guitar? I dont give a shit about what he says on his Facebook page about people copying his guitars, its non of my business. I still want his guitars



This guy again...

Seriously, whenever the righteously flamed business-practices of Vik comes into conversation, you show up as a loyal fluffer. Beyond a certain point of a builder fvcking his customers over, I don't give a shit about his product - THAT is what makes sure that I, and several others, will never place an order with him. I don't care that you have a guitar of his, I couldn't care less if you had ten - if I have to wait for more than two years after being quoted a significantly shorter waiting time, WHILE watching the man churn out stock guitars for the highest bidder and essentially telling people who've been standing in line for months, if not years, to go fvck themselves because there's more money to be made in other places, then yeah, I don't care if the guitar comes with a blowjob. He's not getting money on principle.

Go on, tell us one more time how you "dont mean to defend Vik", but then "in Viks defense" mean to tell us something.


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## Lorcan Ward (Nov 25, 2013)

Jonathan20022 said:


> I meant to put that in my previous post, no I have not in fact played a Vik guitars before. Sorry if I didn't make that more clear or evident before.









Not only have you spent your last few posts saying how much you hate people like YOURSELF who talk about guitars they've never played it also makes your opinion completely baseless and everything you say from here on out in this thread can't be taken seriously.

I love this forum and I've made a lot of friends here but when we have these intelligent debates can people please refrain from talking crap about guitars & gear they've never played. 

Also there is no best guitar, its all personal. PRS Private stocks are amazing, Viks are amazing, Blackmachines are amazing, my J-custom is amazing etc We should all just enjoy them for being amazing guitars and be happy luthiers/builders are prepared to sink in untold hours into perfecting an instrument for what most times ends up as a minimum wage job.


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## AxeHappy (Nov 25, 2013)

Maybe Vik is a dick but he was a class ....ing act when I got ....ed over and had to bail on one of the recent run. *shrug* And that was about him giving me money back.


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## Jonathan20022 (Nov 25, 2013)

drawnacrol said:


> Not only have you spent your last few posts saying how much you hate people like YOURSELF who talk about guitars they've never played it also makes your opinion completely baseless and everything you say from here on out in this thread can't be taken seriously.
> 
> I love this forum and I've made a lot of friends here but when we have these intelligent debates can people please refrain from talking crap about guitars & gear they've never played.
> 
> Also there is no best guitar, its all personal. PRS Private stocks are amazing, Viks are amazing, Blackmachines are amazing, my J-custom is amazing etc We should all just enjoy them for being amazing guitars and be happy luthiers/builders are prepared to sink in untold hours into perfecting an instrument for what most times ends up as a minimum wage job.



Or you can not actually reply to any of my points and just post a meme and then exaggerate my post. I can understand why, as you have one currently on the way, but how can you be an open supporter of intelligent discussion if you don't even respond properly to another person's comment?

"LOL M8 SUCKS TO SUCK, BUT YOUR OPINION SUCKS", in the form of a meme doesn't seem like it's adding much in and of itself. And if you're going to be technical, I've only mentioned that I despise the "people" who do things like praise mythical instruments in one post. I haven't actually defamed or talked crap about the man's instruments, just trying to wake people up to this idolizing of something they haven't played. And you're throwing out anyone's opinion who hasn't played one of these instruments, which renders most of this thread in your eyes as baseless conjecture. Either way, Vik could be running his business in a much better, less detrimental way. If you approve of some of the tactics and his terrible social media presence then I have nothing to say to you.

Then if somehow I magically end up playing one, I'll have the seal of approval and I can have my opinion valid once more!


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## drmosh (Nov 25, 2013)

AxeHappy said:


> Maybe Vik is a dick but he was a class ....ing act when I got ....ed over and had to bail on one of the recent run. *shrug* And that was about him giving me money back.



I've met Vik and I own 3 of his guitars, he is most certainly not a "dick" or an "asshole" as stated in other posts here.
Also, the assumptions made on the selling price are frankly ridiculous


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## Lorcan Ward (Nov 25, 2013)

I wasn't going to bother replying to this but since you had to neg rep me for calling you out I'll explain. 



Jonathan20022 said:


> you can get a guitar that in my opinion plays better than what a Vik will for the money





Jonathan20022 said:


> no I have not in fact played a Vik guitars before.





Jonathan20022 said:


> I doubt most of the people in this thread are involved or have played a Vik before anyways. So that's why 2 cents.



You can't expect to ever be taken seriously on this forum with saying things like this, Hence the funny meme to point out how you're trying to degrade Viks and talk down on people who've never played one and give their opinion on them yet you've never played one but somehow are able to judge them.

Yes I do agree that blindly jumping on a hi-end guitar because its cool is a very risky thing to do. Playing some of these guitars is not an option for most people but I can't imagine any electric guitar player being disappointed with any of the hi-end custom shops.

Back on topic. Anytime I've talked to Vik he's been a really cool guy. I didn't get to talk to him much at Messe though since there were a 100 amps turned up to 11 making conversation near impossible but from Facebook and through emails he's a very down to earth guy who absolutely loves his craft. I would like to know the reason behind the in-stock builds though and why some guys customs are very late.


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## thrsher (Nov 25, 2013)

drawnacrol said:


> Back on topic. Anytime I've talked to Vik he's been a really cool guy. I didn't get to talk to him much at Messe though since there were a 100 amps turned up to 11 making conversation near impossible but from Facebook and through emails he's a very down to earth guy who absolutely loves his craft. I would like to know the reason behind the in-stock builds though and why some guys customs are very late.



EDIT*
going to MESSE, going to NAMM, starting a USA production line, he needs to cover these expenses and i get that. its business but putting a hault to current customer orders should not stop, a plan should be put into place. myself and many orders were around before these things were even a forethought. he chooses to do these things, OK, no problem, whats your plan for your current orders?? not working on them is not acceptable. giving me false answers to keep me at bay is not acceptable either, that's bad customer service. you know you have given me these timelines and none have been met, no apologizes and its as if he never even said them to me. viks customer service has only declined since starting to work with him. he has completely abandoned his forum of updates, which was a great selling point. he pretty much ignores emails and i have to catch him on FB. his currently appointed customer relations guys is no where to even be found in this thread and other customers have to come to the rescue. at the end of the day, Alain and Paul have given these guy prob over 20k combined, of course they are going to get excellent service from the guy.


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## Jonathan20022 (Nov 25, 2013)

drawnacrol said:


> I wasn't going to bother replying to this but since you had to neg rep me for calling you out I'll explain.
> 
> You can't expect to ever be taken seriously on this forum with saying things like this, Hence the funny meme to point out how you're trying to degrade Viks and talk down on people who've never played one and give their opinion on them yet you've never played one but somehow are able to judge them.
> 
> ...



Don't worry, I really don't care about neg-rep and never have. It's so easy to abuse that system anyways that it's a terrible judge of character most times.

Either way if you don't take me seriously, then what can I do? I didn't post what I did looking to win people over, that's just my thoughts on the matter. It's a discussion not "let's see how many people I can get to agree with me"  If you read it over again, I was talking about what I would personally wait for an instrument to be made, I'm not speaking for everyone.

Looking past all that, I'm glad we can at least agree on that even though risky is putting it lightly when the instrument can never come to fruition for various reasons. And there's been countless cases of custom shop instruments being disappointing or just sub-par, didn't Jackson just send out a guitar with 23 Frets?  I stand by my point, if your issue with my comments is me using the word "better" in comparison to other instruments made to absurdly high standards then that's just silly.


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## TemjinStrife (Nov 25, 2013)

Threads like these are why I'm glad I don't have crazy unique tastes, and can play dozens or hundreds of production instruments of all types, prices, and variations until I find one that "speaks" to me.

It's a hell of a lot faster, easier, and less stressful than going the custom route and praying that I bond with it when it finally gets to me, many months and thousands of dollars later.

That is, IF said custom instrument were to get to me in the first place


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## asfeir (Nov 25, 2013)

TemjinStrife said:


> Threads like these are why I'm glad I don't have crazy unique tastes, and can play dozens or hundreds of production instruments of all types, prices, and variations until I find one that "speaks" to me.
> 
> It's a hell of a lot faster, easier, and less stressful than going the custom route and praying that I bond with it when it finally gets to me, many months and thousands of dollars later.



You can do both and get the best of both worlds


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## Workhorse (Dec 10, 2013)

Can anyone here comment on how friendly vik as a person is? Beautiful guitars nonetheless.


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## thrsher (Dec 10, 2013)

Workhorse said:


> Can anyone here comment on how friendly vik as a person is? Beautiful guitars nonetheless.



2 years ago, seemed genuine and humble, now not so much and i feel like everyone is afraid of stepping on the guys toes by being open and honest with him about things. seems like he has developed an ego


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## narad (Dec 10, 2013)

thrsher said:


> 2 years ago, seemed genuine and humble, now not so much and i feel like everyone is afraid of stepping on the guys toes by being open and honest with him about things. seems like he has developed an ego



Well, as a customer, the days of frequent photo updates to the forums and quick lengthy email responses are gone (though he did get back to me rather quickly lately). But you're asking if he's friendly as a person? Yea, he's never been anything but friendly to me. I think most of the people who have orders now had high expectations regarding customer service, because that was the precedent he was setting, and in all the recent success this has definitely suffered. Still, I don't want to conflate the disgruntled complaints many of us have voiced to claiming he's a tyrant. He's always been a cool guy, he's just way behind and processing his build queue in an order that's not respecting the order we paid our deposits in.


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## TIBrent (Dec 10, 2013)

That Vik is seriously theee nicest guitar I have ever played, PERIOD! This makes every other big name professional build seem like a toy! In fact, all of my guitars are toys compared to this. Amazing, AMAZING guitar.


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## Workhorse (Dec 11, 2013)

I know Mehtab sold his guitar immediately after he received it. Thats says a lot.


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## Danukenator (Dec 11, 2013)

Workhorse said:


> I know Mehtab sold his guitar immediately after he received it. Thats says a lot.





You're new around these parts aren't you...


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## TIBrent (Dec 11, 2013)

Workhorse said:


> I know Mehtab sold his guitar immediately after he received it. Thats says a lot.


All it says is that he bought another guitar just to turn it out around & immediately sell it at more than he paid. Pretty common unfortunately.


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## asfeir (Dec 11, 2013)

Workhorse said:


> Can anyone here comment on how friendly vik as a person is? Beautiful guitars nonetheless.



Very nice and cool with me, and also not materialistic/greedy at all concerning the deposit. I don't want to go into details about this but he was very nice with me that's why I don't understand most of the bashing he takes in here.
The problem with the wait-list is something else now. 

A bit unrelated, but the nicest luthier I talked with was David Myka. Seemed like a genuinely nice and accessible guy.


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## GXPO (Dec 11, 2013)

You guys all need tea. Tea solves everything. 

Seriously though, I hate to see Vik fall from grace like this so publicly as I was genuinely astounded by his work when I first saw it. I can't even begin to comment on it as I've had 0 involvement in the product (BUUUUUUT ). If what you guys are saying is true however, whether he's an arsehole or not, he's screwing his customers. Defend him all you want, he's screwing his customers on an objective level with measurable statistics and tangible examples (years of waiting and price rises, others having guit-fiddles in their hands). 

Something about this forum (all forums I guess) breeds sensationalism and I'm ashamed to say that I almost fell for it once upon a time. Despite all obvious and reasonable argument I somehow had gained the idea that I needed a custom guitar made for me in order to properly Djent. Laugh all you like, it's laughable. But if this can happen to me, someone previously and self professedly immune to such exageration of a product, then it can happen to nearly anyone who joins this forum. My point being, guys like Vik get elevated and their honest crust turns to trampled bread and everyone is left crying about it. 

I hope everything works out for you guys in the end. I'd hate to see Vik turn into another BRJ.


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## HighGain510 (Dec 11, 2013)

thrsher said:


> 2 years ago, seemed genuine and humble, now not so much and i feel like everyone is afraid of stepping on the guys toes by being open and honest with him about things. seems like he has developed an ego



Really? When he first came on here he had a bit of an attitude and IIRC was banned a few times for stepping out of line.  He tried to knock that off for a bit but it seems like he never kicked the habit, and now that he has guys handing him $5K at a time, I don't see that helping things honestly.  That ego will keep inflating until he pisses off the entire customer base and has a Rico-esque meltdown. 




Workhorse said:


> I know Mehtab sold his guitar immediately after he received it. Thats says a lot.



I wouldn't base your thoughts on any piece of gear on Mehtab's comments or buying/selling habits. Hard to take anyone seriously who flips guitars for profit all day long, not to mention many of them while they're IN TRANSIT. "BEST GUITAR EVER.... HAVEN'T RECEIVED IT YET, ASKING $6K DUE TO RARITY!!!"  Nooooope.


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## WickedSymphony (Dec 11, 2013)

GXPO said:


> I hope everything works out for you guys in the end. I'd hate to see Vik turn into another BRJ.



Seeing this repeated a lot in here, and I really hope this doesn't happen for the sake of those involved. Unfortunately, I'm one of the guys that got burned by BRJ (yes I know, should've done my homework, lesson learned, etc. thank god for charge backs at least), and the way he's treating some of you guys doesn't seem to be too far off. At one point I thought about going for a Vik too, but now I'm sure glad I didn't. 

Honestly, I think the behavior of these guys has made me a lot more cautious when it comes to customs. There are some things I really like about them - the aesthetics the builders offer, picking out your own specs, and also just having it be a more personal instrument. These are things you can't always get from something off the shelf (unless of course a production model happens to already be everything you want, though I'm sure many of us who have been playing a long time have grown a bit picky with our preferences ). Personally, I just wanted a custom for these reasons. I might go for one in the future with a bit more focus on the personal part, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't worried at all about the process after my experience so far. I guess that could mean it's just not for me anymore. 

Also, practically speaking, I can't imagine that custom guitars would play so much better than another high end guitar from a major manufacturer that it's worth dealing with all the headache, waiting, and risk. At a certain point, barring a flawed instrument, all guitars should be fairly close in craftsmanship and a good setup will go a really long way, at which point things just come down to preference. Just something to keep in mind.


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## thrsher (Dec 11, 2013)

HighGain510 said:


> Really? When he first came on here he had a bit of an attitude and IIRC was banned a few times for stepping out of line.  He tried to knock that off for a bit but it seems like he never kicked the habit, and now that he has guys handing him $5K at a time, I don't see that helping things honestly.  That ego will keep inflating until he pisses off the entire customer base and has a Rico-esque meltdown.



well for me, back when i ordered, 29 months ago, i was not heavily involved here on the forum and wasn't really aware of Vik dealings here, and only caught wind of his behavior over time. my dealings, via email and facebook were fairly pleasant, when little bits of work was done, he would update me and if there were delays, he would tell me. now everyone is just a guess in the wind.

also, to add to the point off people handing him large amounts of cash, great point. Paul and Alain have given vik over a combined 20k in what, 1-1.5 years? of course they get excellent customer service and are buddy buddy with the guy!


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## Workhorse (Dec 11, 2013)

Danukenator said:


> You're new around these parts aren't you...



I am not part of the whole gear-hording culture, I prefer to stick to guitar playing and trying to improve my ability, not my instagram.


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