# Sovtek better then JJ's Tubes?? Whaaa?



## dudewtf (Oct 2, 2008)

Hey guys,

So, recently my Mesa Dual Rectifier completely died on me while in rehearsal. I took it into the local shop out here to have it fixed. The guy said he's going to run some tests through it to see what the problem is, but it may just need a new set of poweramp tubes.

Now, I've read on this site many times about how most of you prefer JJ Tubes. So I picked out what I wanted, and told the guy if I need new tubes I want it all JJ's.

He told me that JJ's arent good power tubes, and Sovtek is the way to go. He said for preamp tubes JJ's are the best. He also told me that Groove, Mesa, Fender, and all those other tube brands are Sovtek's with just that brand's name printed on the tube. Then he told me that the brand of Power Tube does'nt really affect the sound, and that its all in the Preamp tubes.

I'll admit this right now - I have major trust issues. Especially when it comes to people who have anything to do with selling music equipment/repairs.

So is this man speaking the truth? Or should I go with the many happy Sevenstring.org'ers and do it all JJ's?

Here was my initial retube list for my mesa dual rectifier:
12Ax7 Tung Sol in V1
V2-V5 JJ's ECC83S
4 JJ's 6L6GC
2 JJ'sGZ34 Rectifier Tubes

The style of music I play is Metal - bands like Evergrey, Devin Townsend/Strapping Young Lad, Iced Earth, In Flames, Dream Theater, Fear Factory, Scar Symmetry, The Haunted, Machine Head, and Nevermore
and..
Rock - bands like Cold, Crossfade, Shinedown, Disturbed, A Perfect Circle

I really love Devin Townsend's sound. In everything he does he has amazing guitar tone. I heard he uses EL34's in his Mesa, and I was considering doing that, but I'm used to the 6L6's. If you guys have any recommendations on what tubes to get based on the bands I play, then please give your suggestions!

Thanks guys!


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## kmanick (Oct 2, 2008)

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh no, Power tubes can make a huge difference in tone.
I run JJ's in my Rectoverb and ruby winged C6L6's and JJ El34's in my Mark III.
sovteks are horrible. manufacturures love them because they have a very low failure rate and they are relatively cheap, that is why you see so many of them in new amps.
chekc out Dougstubes.com, he has sets for mesa amps, and eurotubes.com for all of your JJ needs.


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## sami (Oct 2, 2008)

I wouldn't say X brand is better than X brand. Sovtek and JJ are both good brands. Trust your ears. Some amps may sound better to you with a certain brand of power tube as well. There's too many variables.


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## dudewtf (Oct 2, 2008)

Thanks for the responses guys. I had a feeling that guy was full of it.


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## Scali (Oct 2, 2008)

dudewtf said:


> He told me that JJ's arent good power tubes, and Sovtek is the way to go. He said for preamp tubes JJ's are the best.


 
I'd say the opposite. I hate JJ's preamp tubes, they sound too 'muffled', giving a lackluster distorted tone with few nuances.
But they have some really good (and unique) power tubes.



dudewtf said:


> He also told me that Groove, Mesa, Fender, and all those other tube brands are Sovtek's with just that brand's name printed on the tube.


 
That part is more or less true.
There basically are only a few actual factories, Sovtek being one of them. Electro Harmonix is another (a former Sovtek factory), then there's JJ (formerly Tesla), and some Chinese factories that don't operate under a brand.

Pretty much all other brands, such as the amp manufacturers themselves, and brands like Groove or Ruby or such, just buy unbranded tubes from these few factories in bulk (an OEM deal), then they do their own QA and label the tubes.

The sources change from time to time, but especially for power tubes, Sovtek is a very common choice for amp manufacturers. Preamp tubes are usually Chinese, sometimes Russian. Chinese 12AX7 are quite easy to spot, because they have two 'discs' at the top of the tube, a very characteristic design.
This Groove Tubes is a Chinese one for example:





It's basically the same as this one, just a different label:







dudewtf said:


> Then he told me that the brand of Power Tube does'nt really affect the sound, and that its all in the Preamp tubes.


 
Well, the preamp does have more effect on the tone, especially when using a lot of distortion... But power tubes can still affect the sound, especially if you use different types. For example, I use JJ E34L in my amp, which fit in most EL34 amps, but the tubes are a different design. They use slightly more voltage and deliver about 20&#37; more power.

When using the same type from different brands (EL34 vs EL34), the differences will be smaller, especially if you don't push the poweramp into distortion. It's little different from a small adjustment of the eq then.


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## budda (Oct 2, 2008)

its called a bias, and the guy definitely has one.

everything in an amp affects the tone, plain and simple.

i prefer JJ's to sovteks myself, and have more experience w/ JJ's then Sovteks.


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Oct 2, 2008)

i had gotten a pair of groove tubes 6l6's from germany that kicked ass, i didnt even know they made them in germany


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## budda (Oct 2, 2008)

GT rebrands their tubes, they have an actual MIA line.

afaik, and i havent really looked into it.


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## Groff (Oct 2, 2008)

I have a sovtek in my chain with JJs, I also have a tung-sol in my preamp.

I like to mix and match until my amp screams pure chaos. 



Works for me.


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## budda (Oct 2, 2008)

i just tried the KT77 standard kit, cuz i dont really want to go through allll those brands of tubes to try and find what works best.

i may try a tung sol in V1, but i dont need to.


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## dudewtf (Oct 2, 2008)

I think Im going to stick to the JJ's.


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## Sepultorture (Oct 3, 2008)

JJ's and TUNG-SOL and u should be golden my man

thats what i'm doing

now i just gotta figure out how i'm gunna go about biasing this amp, and i'm sure as not bringing it to an amp tech cus i don't think they really know what their doing


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## 7 Dying Trees (Oct 3, 2008)

I'm probably going to end up going with sovteks for my UL, but in particular the rebranded penta tubes. Also, the chinese 9th gen are supposedly good as well.

JJ's I think are nice for some amps, but are fairly dark from reports.

Best thing to do is ask Doug at dougs tunbes, he's given me sterling adivice so far, and the guy knows his stuff so it looks like I am hitting him up for my tubes on this order to retube an Orange,VHT and Mesa triaxis. JJ's and penta (sovtek) tubes came recommended for the triaxis. chinese 9th gen for the VHT.


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## 7 Dying Trees (Oct 3, 2008)

Sepultorture said:


> JJ's and TUNG-SOL and u should be golden my man
> 
> thats what i'm doing
> 
> now i just gotta figure out how i'm gunna go about biasing this amp, and i'm sure as not bringing it to an amp tech cus i don't think they really know what their doing


Get the bias kit of Eurotubes and use that, also comes with a quick guide to setting the bias by output tube type. Zim knows about the UL as he's done it, and there should be a trimpot somewhere inside it.


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## dudewtf (Oct 3, 2008)

Not to kiss anyones ass or anything, but this is what I love about this forum.

Most of you guys seem to really know your stuff, and are very helpful.

It really is awesome


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## 7 Dying Trees (Oct 3, 2008)

Can't speak for anyone else, but you definately don't want to kiss my ass, you'd choke on the hair


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## sami (Oct 3, 2008)

gross!


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Oct 3, 2008)

7 Dying Trees said:


> Can't speak for anyone else, but you definately don't want to kiss my ass, you'd choke on the hair



....Never...sleep...again...Neeevveerrr...sleeep...agaaaaain....


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## SymmetricScars (Oct 3, 2008)

This thread really took a turn for the worst...


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## budda (Oct 3, 2008)

the thing about tube changes is, your amp wont be night and day.

everyone hypes up tube changes and speaker swaps - you Will notice a Difference and it Won't be Massive.

so long as its the same tube type, there probably wont be that big a difference between 1 brand EL34 and another EL34 especially if your amp is biased and the tubes match the bias.

i put in KT77's, my amp didnt sound like some new amp - just better. i put in new speakers, and my amp didnt sound like some new amp - just smoother and tighter.


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## ibznorange (Oct 4, 2008)

if poweramp tubes didnt effect tone, it wouldnt matter if you had an amp running 6l6s or el34s. the preamp is designed to shape tone while the power amp is designed to power, yes. but they do other stuff


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## Zepp88 (Oct 4, 2008)

7 Dying Trees said:


> Can't speak for anyone else, but you definately don't want to kiss my ass, you'd choke on the hair





I have nothing else to add, you guys have already covered it all, but damn this is funny.


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