# Agile multiscale 8-string discussion



## eegor (Mar 20, 2009)

Well, as many of you know, there's been some talk about a multiscale 8-string Agile in the "Intrepid lead interest" thread, and I thought it'd be a good idea to start its own thread for discussion. 

Now, before we begin, I've read that Kurt is hesitant (if not unwilling or unable) to produce a multiscale guitar, so I just want to make sure that everyone knows that *THIS IS JUST SPECULATIVE DISCUSSION*. There's no guarantee that this idea will ever leave this forum or be approved by Kurt, so don't get your hopes up just yet.

My thoughts are to keep this design as simple as possible with little to no options on it to ensure that if it does eventually become a reality, it won't cost an arm and a leg to get one. And that's what we're all going for, right? So, I think now is the time to start giving your ideas for prospective specs.

Here's what I'm thinking as far as basic specs go:

Intrepid body
25.5"-27" scale length
Single EMG-45HZ pickup
Either ABM individual saddles or Agile-designed bridge of some sort
Maple fretboard
Only 1 or 2 colors to start off with

I'm not sure what to think about woods, because I'm not sure what woods or body construction is cost efficient for this kind of project, so those suggestions are definitely welcome. And for the scale length, I chose that particular fan because it's not very extreme, and would probably be easier than going 25.5"-28.625".

Anyway, go ahead and speak your mind!


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## Scali (Mar 20, 2009)

As said in the other thread, I think that's exactly NOT what a lead player would want. As a lead player I want a neck pickup and a tremolo. I would never get a guitar with single pickup, and I only buy something without a tremolo if it's a Les Paul.

If fanned frets mean I can't get a neck pickup and tremolo, then fanned frets are out for me, the others weigh far heavier.

In this case I think the tremolo is especially important, because there are already plenty of 8-strings with a fixed bridge and 2 pickups on the market. I think tremolo should be THE most discering feature from the regular Intrepid.


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## Justin Bailey (Mar 20, 2009)

I'm thinking agile could make simple single saddle bridges like these








also I'll post my lame little mock up here:






as you can see, personally I'd like to see a sceptor body with this version of the 8. 

alder body
maple neck with rosewood or maple board
bolt on neck
single slanted EMG bridge pickup, or is rondo can make an angled 8 pickup cheaply

maybe a neckthrough pro version, but lets work on this basic one first.



EDIT: luckily for you scali, this isn't for just lead players.


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## FlamesOfDestiny (Mar 20, 2009)

I'm definitely on board with this.

The scale length you listed looks pretty good to me, but if a 25.5"-28.625" were at all feasible, that would be my preference. I'd prefer a passive pickup (and really dual passives), but I understand that that would increase the cost. Also, I'd love to see this in a bright purple or bright blue (with the maple fretboard).

All of that being said, I'd still be buy one unless the long scale went below 27".


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## Scali (Mar 20, 2009)

Justin Bailey said:


> EDIT: luckily for you scali, this isn't for just lead players.


 
Oh sorry, I thought it was, because this discussion spanned from the discussion of an 8-string Agile aimed at lead players (perhaps the original post could be extended to explain that this is going to be a separate guitar design).
I don't mind if Agile makes a multiscale guitar, just not INSTEAD of the lead guitar we were discussing.
The lead guitar would be the only one I'd be interested in.


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## eegor (Mar 20, 2009)

I made this thread to separate the two ideas. This isn't an alternative to the lead guitar, it's just another idea that spawned from that thread.


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## plyta (Mar 20, 2009)

Justin Bailey said:


> ...
> also I'll post my lame little mock up here:



Is this a mutation of my MAGMA8?


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## Koshchei (Mar 20, 2009)

Yes! PleASe! 25.5" = 27" would be ideal. With zero fingerboard radius. And a neck pickup. Straight fret somewhere around 7.


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## possumkiller (Mar 20, 2009)

that would be awesome because i would love to try a fan fret and not spend a billion dollars if i dont like it you know?


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## Justin Bailey (Mar 20, 2009)

plyta said:


> Is this a mutation of my MAGMA8?



lmao it is indeed. Sorry.


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## Tommy Van Dyke (Mar 20, 2009)

where's the petition to sign? This is most excellent, can we do the interceptor shape too?


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## plyta (Mar 20, 2009)

Justin Bailey said:


> lmao it is indeed. Sorry.



Not at all, it is pleasent to watch my seed sprout up


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## Demiurge (Mar 20, 2009)

I'm not entirely sure if the factory would be able to do the multiscale fretboard slotting and fretting necessary, but hell, I'd be interested... a shallow-carved Interceptor body would be pretty sweet.


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## E Lucevan Le Stelle (Mar 20, 2009)

If we're going multiscale, might as well go all the way and go a neck through and 2 pickups, like the Intrepid Pro Duals... except ideally with an Interceptor body, if that would work? Reusing the Intrepid body would be fine though.

Individual saddles would be the way to go for this, 28.625 to 25.5" scale fan?

I'm assuming this would be their new "high end" 8... I'd say go with 2 EMG808s as they don't need modifying to be a slanted pickup solution.


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## eegor (Mar 20, 2009)

E Lucevan Le Stelle said:


> If we're going multiscale, might as well go all the way and go a neck through and 2 pickups


 
...because we're trying to keep costs down. That would be ideal, but we're trying to appeal to people that can't afford customs. Believe me, I would much rather have those options, but cost is the key here, and we need to shave as much of it off as possible.


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## Tommy Van Dyke (Mar 20, 2009)

eegor said:


> ...because we're trying to keep costs down. That would be ideal, but we're trying to appeal to people that can't afford customs. Believe me, I would much rather have those options, but cost is the key here, and we need to shave as much of it off as possible.




True it'd probably be best to keep this beast under $700 and with 2 emgs and multiscale (well, I'd be shocked if that were possible)


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## darren (Mar 20, 2009)

Fanned frets were on the table in the initial round of Intrepid design exploration, and Kurt didn't seem to think the factory was up to it. Also, there's no way to automate or speed up the process of cutting and fretting a multi-scale fretboard. It has to be meticulously laid out, slotted and fretted, and to be honest, even at Korean labour prices, that's a LOT of handwork and i'm not 100&#37; confident they could do it right. And the cost of the hardware (individual bridges) would also push that price up.

It would probably end up costing well upwards of $1000 in which case you'd probably be better off saving up and having it done by an experienced builder like Mike Sherman.


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## CynicEidolon (Mar 20, 2009)

Those are kind of my thought Darren. I'd love a budget friendly guitar with all my needs/wants in a guitar. But really, the only reason I'm not going 8 string Agile is because of the lack of the components that I require to have it be an instrument I can/would use. The lower cost is nice but I'll pay the price to get what I need/want.


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## Tommy Van Dyke (Mar 20, 2009)

darren said:


> Fanned frets were on the table in the initial round of Intrepid design exploration, and Kurt didn't seem to think the factory was up to it. Also, there's no way to automate or speed up the process of cutting and fretting a multi-scale fretboard. It has to be meticulously laid out, slotted and fretted, and to be honest, even at Korean labour prices, that's a LOT of handwork and i'm not 100% confident they could do it right. And the cost of the hardware (individual bridges) would also push that price up.
> 
> It would probably end up costing well upwards of $1000 in which case you'd probably be better off saving up and having it done by an experienced builder like Mike Sherman.



well that just pwnt this thread...


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## eegor (Mar 20, 2009)

I don't want to give up on this idea just yet. We should at least figure out the ideal specs so that in the completely off chance this gets the go-ahead, we can have it ready to go.


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## Trespass (Mar 20, 2009)

I would love it, but I can't see korean factory workers being pushed to do something meticulous like fanned frets, especially considering some of the imperfections we've seen. Fanned frets, to me, sounds like it would exacerbate the situation.


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## possumkiller (Mar 20, 2009)

exacerbate is a very big word. im afraid i dont know what it means


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## TomAwesome (Mar 20, 2009)

It means making things worse. Dictionary.reference.com is an awesome site, yo.


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## lefty robb (Mar 20, 2009)

Trespass said:


> I would love it, but I can't see korean factory workers being pushed to do something meticulous like fanned frets, especially considering some of the imperfections we've seen. Fanned frets, to me, sounds like it would exacerbate the situation.


 

exactly, I would love to see it, but the real question is can they do it? If theres just no way then theres no real reason to keep pondering it. I think we should just be happy to see 8 string guitars under $700.


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## AgileLefty (Mar 20, 2009)

lefty robb said:


> exactly, I would love to see it, but the real question is can they do it? If theres just no way then theres no real reason to keep pondering it. I think we should just be happy to see 8 string guitars under $700.


 

and more importantly, LEFTY 8 STRINGS FOR UNDER $700!!!


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## whisper (Mar 20, 2009)

darren said:


> Fanned frets were on the table in the initial round of Intrepid design exploration, and Kurt didn't seem to think the factory was up to it. Also, there's no way to automate or speed up the process of cutting and fretting a multi-scale fretboard. It has to be meticulously laid out, slotted and fretted, and to be honest, even at Korean labour prices, that's a LOT of handwork and i'm not 100% confident they could do it right. And the cost of the hardware (individual bridges) would also push that price up.
> 
> It would probably end up costing well upwards of $1000 in which case you'd probably be better off saving up and having it done by an experienced builder like Mike Sherman.



I remember your mock-ups of those. Price was always the thing with Kurt, for which he gets props. If the Intrepid was in any higher price range, I would be without an 8-string today. I was skeptical in the first place about the long scale and soloing, but I'm adapting fine. Me personally, multiscale 9 or 10 string, 27 to 30, or something like that. Multiscale 9 or 10 string under $2000? A friggin steal. Just my $0.02


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## darren (Mar 21, 2009)

Before you go too far down the path of trying to spec out an instrument and find out how many people are interested, you should maybe contact Kurt and even find out if a multi-scale instrument is even in the realm of possibility. He tries to keep things under a certain price threshold... his whole business model is pretty much built on capturing that low-hanging fruit of quality guitars under an "impulse buy" price point. 

Granted, our extended range instruments and his "custom shop" offerings have kind of blown up that pricing model, but i think fanned frets are asking a LOT. If an Intrepid Pro is already pushing close to $700, a multi-scale option is going to add to that significantly. And availability of parts is going to be the real clincher... this is why it took nearly 2 years for the Intrepid to see the light of day. I haven't seen single-string bridges that were less than $20-30 each.


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## msherman (Mar 21, 2009)

Pups are the issue. The 808`s poles aren`t wide enough to be mounted at the proper fan angle.


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## Metal Ken (Mar 21, 2009)

Juke that 8 string crap, gimme a multiscale 7 \m/


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## cyril v (Mar 21, 2009)

I'd say if you want something like this from Agile, ask him if it's possible for a custom. As far as an actual production model, I'd have to say it's probably a bad idea and not because I don't like fanned frets (i want one)... it just seems like it'd be a bit of trouble (for the many reasons already brought up) and probably end up more expensive than it would initially seem.

/two cents


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## thesimo (Mar 21, 2009)

Trespass said:


> I would love it, but I can't see korean factory workers being pushed to do something meticulous like fanned frets, especially considering some of the imperfections we've seen. Fanned frets, to me, sounds like it would exacerbate the situation.




I have to agree, If they cant put a neck on straight I wouldn't go making it this complex.


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## eegor (Mar 21, 2009)

darren said:


> Before you go too far down the path of trying to spec out an instrument and find out how many people are interested, you should maybe contact Kurt and even find out if a multi-scale instrument is even in the realm of possibility. He tries to keep things under a certain price threshold... his whole business model is pretty much built on capturing that low-hanging fruit of quality guitars under an "impulse buy" price point.
> 
> Granted, our extended range instruments and his "custom shop" offerings have kind of blown up that pricing model, but i think fanned frets are asking a LOT. If an Intrepid Pro is already pushing close to $700, a multi-scale option is going to add to that significantly. And availability of parts is going to be the real clincher... this is why it took nearly 2 years for the Intrepid to see the light of day. I haven't seen single-string bridges that were less than $20-30 each.



I was planning on emailing him, but my thought process was to get a rough idea put together to at least show that we've given this some serious thought. If he emails me back saying that it's not possible to do something like this, well then, I guess that's the end of it.


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## Daggorath (Mar 21, 2009)

No to EMGs. Really sick of them in everything.


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## Justin Bailey (Mar 21, 2009)

some emg bass pickup would work when angled. Unless kurt can make something happen, but who knows. Lets keep this simple, just a bridge pickup, and a volume and maybe a tone, anything else will drag the price up on this beast, and the point of this is to be an affordable multiscale, not the be all and end all of multiscale guitars. It's like "my first multiscale guitar"


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## eegor (Mar 21, 2009)

Daggorath said:


> No to EMGs. Really sick of them in everything.



I fucking hate EMGs, but it's cheaper to do it this way. Otherwise Kurt would have to design angled passives, which aren't cheap.

Edit: Also, Josh has the right idea. The "my first multiscale guitar" is exactly what I think we're going for here.


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## MFB (Mar 21, 2009)

eegor said:


> Edit: Also, Josh has the right idea. The "my first multiscale guitar" is exactly what I think we're going for here.



And the first "my multiscale guitar" shouldn't include "my first active pickups" either. Granted they are easier because you can angle them however you like, they're tone is very subjective.

Shit, I was gonna say why not use passive-sized Blackouts but they don't make 8 versions


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## TomAwesome (Mar 21, 2009)

MFB said:


> Shit, I was gonna say why not use passive-sized Blackouts but they don't make 8 versions



They'd be too short, anyway.


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## HighGain510 (Mar 21, 2009)

I think there should be a third option for "interested but this is not really something that Rondo should/would handle."  Seriously, adding a string? Not really a big deal, they can re-program the CNC to handle that without being WAY too difficult or radically different than their normal production items. Asking them to do multi-scale on a budget instrument? Sounds like 2 things that don't seem like they would go together well. 

Not only is it not likely that Kurt would want to bother with this as it's going to be a royal pain for him IMO, but with fanned frets being a fairly niche market item already, trying to sell them at the budget level invites more of the tire-kickers who will more than likely buy one and return it or put down the deposit and then bail before it's ready.  The hardware (slanted pickups and custom bridges) is definitely more of an expense and the work for the frets and whatnot is much greater so you're already looking at a potential $1200+ guitar easy. Knowing the Agile market, especially on here, there are not a whole lot of guys who dig those guitars that will also pay that kind of money for one. Just the reality of things I've noticed in many, many Agile threads throughout the forum. While it is a nice thought and would be cool if it were possible to do cheap, I hate to burst the bubble but it does not seem like a great/plausible idea to me.  When it comes to a highly customized guitar like this you're definitely looking more towards a small luthier build than a customized production guitar.


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## eegor (Mar 21, 2009)

I appreciate your input, but everyone (I hope) understands that this is a long shot idea at best. I'd like to keep the content of this thread focused towards the design, and not how small the chances of its production are.

In other news, I shot an email at Kurt, so we should here back from him in a day or two.

Edit: And for everyone who says no to EMGs, what are you recommending? Or do you think we should leave that area of the guitar blank? (This is both a serious and sarcastic question, take it whichever way you please)


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## troyguitar (Mar 21, 2009)

eegor said:


> Edit: And for everyone who says no to EMGs, what are you recommending? Or do you think we should leave that area of the guitar blank? (This is both a serious and sarcastic question, take it whichever way you please)



Your other option(s) would be to look at 6 or 7-string bass pickups.


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## GorillaSalsa (Mar 21, 2009)

I think it could be done if it were _relatively_ budget. Seriously, do you know of anybody who makes a fanned fretted guitar for less than $2k? less than $1500? If Rondo were to do this, they could definitely make one for ~$1200, I imagine. I would absolutely buy it, too.

But, to add to the discussion, I would only buy it if it didn't have EMGs and had a neck pickup at least.


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## Elysian (Mar 21, 2009)

be careful using the term multiscale, mr ormsby thought he'd be smart and trademark it(though i'm not sure it holds any water in the US)


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## lefty robb (Mar 21, 2009)

Elysian said:


> be careful using the term multiscale, mr ormsby thought he'd be smart and trademark it(though i'm not sure it holds any water in the US)


 

LOL, seems to vauge of a word to trademark....to bad its not registered yet


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## eegor (Mar 21, 2009)

troyguitar said:


> Your other option(s) would be to look at 6 or 7-string bass pickups.



Good point. I'd never thought of that. I guess that would be our top choice at the moment.


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## Sroth Saraiel (Mar 21, 2009)

I don't personally like agiles, but for SURE buy a fanned fret 8 string since they are affordable to try 

Make it happen and will have customer here for it +1


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## Elysian (Mar 21, 2009)

lefty robb said:


> LOL, seems to vauge of a word to trademark....to bad its not registered yet



Yeah, I just looked it up at the Australian trademark office, its "Under Review" as of 2 days ago  honestly, I hope it gets shot down.


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## lefty robb (Mar 21, 2009)

Well its a word that describes something, but with really no other words to describe it, and what it is describing, isn't patented anymore and cant be. Its like Coca-Cola trying to trademark "Soda". I mean, what we would have to call them "two-scale", or "Many scale" necks? I don't think so.


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## TemjinStrife (Mar 22, 2009)

Ormsby does great work, but he's a dick about his "techniques" like "multiscale" and "wave-scalloping" and other such BS.

I simply do not think that a multiscale instrument is feasible given the way that fret slots are cut in a modern factory. I'd love to try one, but I'd rather it be a 7 and I'm pretty full up on guitars these days.


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## msherman (Mar 22, 2009)

TemjinStrife said:


> Ormsby does great work, but he's a dick about his "techniques" like "multiscale" and "wave-scalloping" and other such BS.



You can rest assure that his peers are going to have a little something in store for this (TM) filing. FWIW, his "wave scalloping" idea has been around for over two decades. Grover Jackson did this very thing way back in the day. The term "multiscale" has been used for over 15 years by myself, and several of my colleagues, long before Ormsby was even building guitars.
His staining/paint techniques that he takes so much credit for are over 40 years old as well.

I respect his work, but I`m afraid I`m going to have call Bullshit on his self indulging, ego inflating claims to be the pioneer of these techniques and terminologies.

On topic with the thread, I really don`t see a "Multiscale" guitar fitting in with kurt`s business model. There is more to it then "meets the eye" with multiscale construction that can be a loss leader for a company that is not tooled up for it. You need to have a few under your belt before you can just jump right into it. Headstocks need to be compound angled, hardware gets twice as expensive, and the proper scales need to be worked out to balance the string tension. 

Don`t get your hopes up that it`s going to be cheap if Kurt decides to start producing these type of instuments, because there is more tooling/specialized parts/employee training required than what his factory is set up for.


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## Harry (Mar 22, 2009)

eegor said:


> I appreciate your input, but everyone (I hope) understands that this is a long shot idea at best. I'd like to keep the content of this thread focused towards the design, and not how small the chances of its production are.
> 
> In other news, I shot an email at Kurt, so we should here back from him in a day or two.
> 
> Edit: And for everyone who says no to EMGs, what are you recommending? Or do you think we should leave that area of the guitar blank? (This is both a serious and sarcastic question, take it whichever way you please)



Well, I'd imagine some people would be prepared to pay that little bit extra if a passive alternative came out. If it meant an extra 50 or 100 bucks to pay for a pickup they can live with rather than being force fed an EMG they don't like, I'm sure they would wait for that extra pay check to come in to be able to pay it.
That said, EMGs aren't bad, although, seriously the idea of leaving that area of the guitar blank so the user can put in the pickups of their choice rather than having to remove the EMG, hope they can get some money for it etc isn't as far fetched as it sounds IMO.


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## lefty robb (Mar 22, 2009)

msherman said:


> You can rest assure that his peers are going to have a little something in store for this (TM) filing. FWIW, his "wave scalloping" idea has been around for over two decades. Grover Jackson did this very thing way back in the day. The term "multiscale" has been used for over 15 years by myself, and several of my colleagues, long before Ormsby was even building guitars.
> His staining/paint techniques that he takes so much credit for are over 40 years old as well.
> 
> I respect his work, but I`m afraid I`m going to have call Bullshit on his self indulging, ego inflating claims to be the pioneer of these techniques and terminologies.



Smells like Ed Roman type bullshitting to me.


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## Fler (Mar 22, 2009)

I think an Agile multiscale 8 is a great idea, its crossed my mind before but already elaborated upon, it's a tricky business. To those who mentioned 8 string tremolos, I can this as someone who's put a lot of time into designing one for a one-off custom instrument, that's adding some serious cost and effort. Kahler's custom ones are pretty damn pricey, and the manufacturing costs for my design certainly won't be cheap.

I think with careful design, say an Intrepid multiscale-8 is very possible. It would no doubt take some extra training and improvements of sorts on the factory end, but as long as on the design end it's designed as meticulously as possible, then it could well go down a real treat. I'd be dead keen on one with say 25.5-28" scale, perpendicular fret maybe at 6th or so fret or something like that. Relatively simple electronics, hardware, etc.
Perhaps a run of custom passive pickups for an HH layout instrument, vol/tone/toggle type arrangement. As for woods and construction it's up for debate, bolt-on or neck-thru, perhaps maple neck/mahogany sides? Rosewood or maple fingerboard?
Finishes? I'm thinking with a maple board a nice translucentish blue would give a really love 'fresh water' vibe to the instrument. Or perhaps with an ebony/rosewood fingerboard a darker translucent finish?

I think it's really a matter of identifying all variables in making it happen, and the company spending time working on defeating them, so as to make the instrument _possible_, and then make decisions on whether or not to actually produce the instrument.

I know i'd be well in favour of it happening, and ordering one, it wouldnt stop me with my Oni order though.

EDIT: To add to this I had a thought. In terms of whats considered the norm these days in terms of musical equipment, we're starting to see growing popularity in extended range instruments, and now multiscale designs are getting more and more popular. I think it's only really logical that someone comes along and takes a stab at doing the first production model multiscale 8. I think Agile are potentially in a good position there, to take a step in that direction. I think it's the next step logically.


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## Justin Bailey (Mar 22, 2009)

troyguitar said:


> Your other option(s) would be to look at 6 or 7-string bass pickups.



exactly what I was saying, a passive emg bass pickup would fit, and it'd probably be more cost effective than retooling to make a special designed pickup.



MFB said:


> And the first "my multiscale guitar" shouldn't include "my first active pickups" either. Granted they are easier because you can angle them however you like, they're tone is very subjective.



Luckily they don't have to be active.

Electric Guitar Pickups & Accessories - EMG Pickups | EMG-45HZ

And if you dislike the tone you could easily get a custom pickup made and slap it in there. Although I have heard good things about ergs that use the passive emg bass pickups. If anyone that owns one could chime in with their thoughts on this that'd be awesome!


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## eegor (Mar 22, 2009)

That pickups sounds good to me. I'm going to edit my first post to add that in.


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## MFB (Mar 22, 2009)

Justin Bailey said:


> exactly what I was saying, a passive emg bass pickup would fit, and it'd probably be more cost effective than retooling to make a special designed pickup.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I didn't realize they made the HZ's so big, cool beans


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## Justin Bailey (Mar 22, 2009)

Then again guys, we could always use, or offer the option of having the normal agile pickup, not slanted. Although I'm unsure of how it'd sound. Similar to this Sherman;







although, personally I'd rather have the slanted pickup, whether it be that HZ or some agile designed one.

also, are we set on it using the intrepid body/headstock? Personally I'd like to see something different, like an interceptor style body, or even something like how Oni does his guitars, small ergonomic body and headstock, that way it's not this monster of a guitar.


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## eegor (Mar 22, 2009)

I'd like to use a body style already designed for 8-string use so no more money is put into redesigning a new one. A.K.A. I think the Intrepid body would be our best bet.


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## Justin Bailey (Mar 22, 2009)

well there's been at least one interceptor 8 made, so I think that could work too. But I understand what you're saying


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## eegor (Mar 22, 2009)

Right. Actually, now that you mention it, maybe Kurt still has the design specs of that. If he does, and the body will require minimal modification, we might be able to make that work.


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## Justin Bailey (Mar 22, 2009)

I'm sure it could be done without to much effort. I was also thinking that shrink the body slightly and pushing the bridge/neck further inwards might help any neck dive issues, plus it might be easier to fit into a normal gigbag.

something like this, but obviously as a multiscale:






It doesn't seem like it'd be to difficult to achieve, but only Kurt would be able to tell us that.


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## eegor (Mar 22, 2009)

I think the body size and neck/bridge place would be fine. With the multiscale, the 24th fret on the treble size would be right on the edge of the cutaway, making access to the higher frets just about perfect.


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## Fler (Mar 22, 2009)

Yeah ideally I think the 24th fret on the highest string should be right at the cutaways edge.


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## Koshchei (Mar 22, 2009)

msherman said:


> You can rest assure that his peers are going to have a little something in store for this (TM) filing. FWIW, his "wave scalloping" idea has been around for over two decades. Grover Jackson did this very thing way back in the day. The term "multiscale" has been used for over 15 years by myself, and several of my colleagues, long before Ormsby was even building guitars.
> His staining/paint techniques that he takes so much credit for are over 40 years old as well.
> 
> I respect his work, but I`m afraid I`m going to have call Bullshit on his self indulging, ego inflating claims to be the pioneer of these techniques and terminologies.



We live in interesting times  People in Texas are trying to have Creationism, as taught in unaccredited Bible colleges, to count as a legitimate M.Sc., the Ministry of Health in South Africa is saying that garlic will cure AIDS, and people everywhere are patenting things like having two legs and breathing air, with the hope of suing humanity out of existence for infringement. Meanwhile, Cuba has abolished illiteracy, pays workers an income to study in Universities, has more doctors per capita than any other country in the world, has 70,000 doctors working with the UN to bring relief to countries hit with plagues and disasters, and the second lowest infant mortality rate in the world, despite having been under economic and military seige for half a century. Things is topsy-turvy, neh?



> On topic with the thread, I really don`t see a "Multiscale" guitar fitting in with kurt`s business model. There is more to it then "meets the eye" with multiscale construction that can be a loss leader for a company that is not tooled up for it. You need to have a few under your belt before you can just jump right into it. Headstocks need to be compound angled, hardware gets twice as expensive, and the proper scales need to be worked out to balance the string tension.
> 
> Don`t get your hopes up that it`s going to be cheap if Kurt decides to start producing these type of instuments, because there is more tooling/specialized parts/employee training required than what his factory is set up for.


I hear you Mike, but hope they're crazy enough to give it a shot


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## Hollowway (Mar 22, 2009)

Regarding the EMG HZ, I don't know if you guys have heard those, but I have an EMG H4 in a sixer, and it is the suckiest pickup ever. If you don't like active EMGs, I think you'd hate the passive ones. That being said, if the 8 string version (or bass) are different from the guitar HZs, then I'd have to hear it before I'd vote.


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## eegor (Mar 22, 2009)

Thanks for the input.


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## Qucifer (Mar 22, 2009)

If not Agile, it would be nice if _somebody_ could put together some kind of production or semi-production multiscale 8-string for folks to get experience with.

I've been on my Oni 8 now for at least a solid 6 months or so, and I absolutely love it. Multiscale 8's are better than single-scale 8's in every way.


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## bulletbass man (Mar 22, 2009)

^the problem is that unless a luthier decides to put out short runs it really isn't that bif of a market to work. Look how hesitant companies were to put out 8 strings. This forum is extremely open to pretty much any inovative design but the average guitarist isn't this way. Look how huge the vintage remake market is. Fender guitars modeled to be like older models have outdated technologies like 6 point tremelos, trussrods which can only be adjusted by taking the neck off, and various other similar things actually sell for a higher price than a model with the new technologies.

I mean I can certainly see using a vintage neck carve or a pickup wound to simulate an older pickup but see no reason to use the other features of those guitars. I've seen far more agile Les Paul copies than thier original designs for basically the same reasons. 

Even with the risks involved even going with something like a multi scale in strictly the marketability of the album the issue of actual creation is huge. Look at the various complaints with the first run of intrepid pros. First run of these could be absolutely disasterous. And Kurt would basically be left to cut his losses. For a guy who had given this forum so much already I find it almost unfair for even ask this of him. It's a huge risk for him, far far worse than anything else we've asked imo.


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## eegor (Mar 22, 2009)

He can always say no. I'm not expecting much more than that, tbh. If he's willing to do it, then he understands those risks. I have no problem with him completely shutting this proposal down.


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## Ishan (Mar 22, 2009)

The problem I see with this project is that a factory would never work on a fanned fret neck. Mainly because they are using computer controlled saw to do the fret slots which are parallel on a standard guitar. Making a fanned fret fingerboard would mean having a new saw made that could work on this, I don't see that happening in the near future honestly.
Still I'd really like a 25.5" to 28" 5/8 fanned Intrepid


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## Scali (Mar 23, 2009)

Well, what's Kurt's business like?
I mean, if his company is growing, and if he uses a fixed team of people who manufacture the guitars, then perhaps Agile is not ready for this today, but they might be in a while, when the business is bigger and can invest more in new designs... and when they have a more experienced workforce, that might be capable of mass-producing more complex designs such as this.


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## wannabguitarist (Mar 23, 2009)

While I love the idea of an "affordable" fanned fret instrument I don't see how it could be done.



msherman said:


> You can rest assure that his peers are going to have a little something in store for this (TM) filing. FWIW, his "wave scalloping" idea has been around for over two decades. Grover Jackson did this very thing way back in the day. The term "multiscale" has been used for over 15 years by myself, and several of my colleagues, long before Ormsby was even building guitars.
> His staining/paint techniques that he takes so much credit for are over 40 years old as well.
> 
> I respect his work, but I`m afraid I`m going to have call Bullshit on his self indulging, ego inflating claims to be the pioneer of these techniques and terminologies.



I so want to share this over at UG where everyone is on his dick for his amazing "new" techniques, but that would be in poor taste


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## vansinn (Mar 23, 2009)

darren said:


> Fanned frets were on the table in the initial round of Intrepid design exploration, and Kurt didn't seem to think the factory was up to it. Also, there's no way to automate or speed up the process of cutting and fretting a multi-scale fretboard. It has to be meticulously laid out, slotted and fretted, and to be honest, even at Korean labour prices, that's a LOT of handwork and i'm not 100% confident they could do it right. And the cost of the hardware (individual bridges) would also push that price up.
> 
> It would probably end up costing well upwards of $1000 in which case you'd probably be better off saving up and having it done by an experienced builder like Mike Sherman.



I agree. WRT the fanned board being the manufacturing issue, maybe this could be using lazer cut automation. I have no idea what is possible in Korea; maybe the boards could be premade like this somewhere else..

In the Agile shredder thread (IIRC), I wrote a bit about Kurts potential buyers and marketability. I think a kindof mass produced multiscale will have to be balanced between suitability for low tunings and shredders dreams.
More aggressive fanning is not likely to attract enough buyers per se.. Sure, many in here is keenly interested, but I'm pretty sure most players wringle their nose when presented with such ideas.

I still think a modest fan, laid out with minimum fanning at the bridge to allow standard bridge/whammy and pups, will be more marketable for a wider range of players, i.e. shredders being able to add the extra top string, and chuggers having a bit longer low strings to avoid them being too heavy.

I also agree with comments on keeping options down for reducing the price.
The locking Kahler sounds like a good balance between having an 8-stringer with factory-installed whammy, and a fixed bridge, while allowing drop tunings.
For the latter, the option between a locking (FR) nut and a graphite would be nice (I'd post-install Sperzel D-thingy's), but as stated elsewhere, this is easily post-modable and thus shouldn't influence the final product, price wise.
And please, a 4-by-4 tuner arrangement, as per the mockup's shown.



cyril v said:


> I'd say if you want something like this from Agile, ask him if it's possible for a custom.



Sometime last year I asked him about custom fanning one of his sevens and with an ebony board. He replied no. That was then; a (semi-) production model today might be different. Whaddoiknow..


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## Fler (Mar 23, 2009)

Thats why I suggested 25.5"-28", with a perpendicular fret around the 6th or so fret. That sort of fan is wide enough, but isn't so extreme as to be impractical. I think that's the best balance.

I'm quite sure fingerboard cutting is usually a hand operation anyway, i'm yet to see footage of any CNC machine doing it. For a fanned fret instrument, there would need to be a lot of care put into this, but provided machinery is capable of doing it, thats some serious precision right there at your disposal.


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## darren (Mar 23, 2009)

There's probably a reason no guitar builder has ventured into multi-scale instruments in mass production. As Mike said, there's a lot more to it than just cutting the fretboard in a fancy fan pattern. 

And think about it... the 8-string market is an infinitesimally small market segment, and the number of players in that segment who would want to play a multi-scale instrument is an even smaller sample. To invest the time, money and energy to tool up for such a small potential audience is a big business risk. Kurt has taken a few calculated risks with us in the past, and they have (for the most part) paid off, because in the end, we can put our money where our mouths are. 

My personal belief is that this kind of instrument isn't really the kind of thing that can be done well in some unknown Korean factory on a tight budget. My hope with the Intrepid was that it would give people a good entry-level instrument with which people could try out the extended range of an 8-string, and that it would feed into the custom market when people feel the need for more advanced instruments.


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## darren (Mar 23, 2009)

Fler said:


> Thats why I suggested 25.5"-28", with a perpendicular fret around the 6th or so fret. That sort of fan is wide enough, but isn't so extreme as to be impractical. I think that's the best balance.
> 
> I'm quite sure fingerboard cutting is usually a hand operation anyway, i'm yet to see footage of any CNC machine doing it. For a fanned fret instrument, there would need to be a lot of care put into this, but provided machinery is capable of doing it, thats some serious precision right there at your disposal.



I've seen fretboards cut on specialized saws that had a single thin circular blade for each fret slot. An entire fretboard can be slotted in one pass.

I believe Dan at Oni Guitars experimented with having multi-scale fretboards laser cut, but it didn't give him the result he wanted.


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## eegor (Mar 23, 2009)

The reason you suggested the Intrepid is the same reason we're suggesting a fanned-fret 8-string: to provide an entry-level instrument that would lead into the custom market. I understand that it would pose a challenge to Kurt as well as the Korean factory, but if he's willing to give it a try, I would hope everyone interested would support it.

Ok, so Kurt emailed me back, and he said that he would discuss it with the factory. He also said he would be a bit busy for the next two weeks, so we'll have to be patient for a while.


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## Fler (Mar 23, 2009)

This threads great, love to see people manifesting these sorts of possibilities.

That's interesting Darren, i'm yet to see one of those, but that does make a lot of sense for mass production.


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## Justin Bailey (Apr 1, 2009)

I wonder if these could work for the bridge...







maybe with slight modification

Brice Z5 Nat at HomeOld


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## darren (Apr 1, 2009)

Bass bridges are too wide to get guitar string spacing.


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## MF_Kitten (Apr 1, 2009)

you&#180;d have to get a hold of some guitar-sized individual saddles, yeah...


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## Justin Bailey (Apr 1, 2009)

darren said:


> Bass bridges are too wide to get guitar string spacing.



 why didn't I think of that


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## vansinn (Apr 1, 2009)

MF_Kitten said:


> you´d have to get a hold of some guitar-sized individual saddles, yeah...



ABM, ABT, ETS..


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## eegor (Apr 1, 2009)

Individual saddles or an Agile-manufactured bridge will be our best bet.


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## Fler (Apr 1, 2009)

Individual guitar sized saddles are quite possible to get. Graphtech do them I know.


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## darren (Apr 1, 2009)

You need more than just saddles. You need a single-string bridge to attach them to.


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## eegor (Apr 1, 2009)

I thought ABM sold the saddles with those. Is that not the case?


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## Niels (Apr 1, 2009)

darren said:


> You need more than just saddles. You need a single-string bridge to attach them to.



I think they actually meant individual bridges, I just recieved 9 of them for my new build  They're real clean looking, I love them


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## vansinn (Apr 1, 2009)

^ Yup, that's what I meant by looking at ABM-Mueller, ABT and ETS, who all offer individual bridge/saddles. Just checked in with Graphtech, but didn't see such a product..


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## Fler (Apr 12, 2009)

Did we ever manage to get any feedback from the company about this suggestion?


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## GorillaSalsa (Apr 12, 2009)

This is still on in my book, I don't care if it takes 2 years.


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## eegor (Apr 13, 2009)

Fler said:


> Did we ever manage to get any feedback from the company about this suggestion?



Kurt said he'd talk to the factory about it. I'm still waiting for more information.


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## Fler (Apr 13, 2009)

Cool, lets hope for the best then.


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## darren (Apr 13, 2009)

Wow... that's amazing he's even considering it!


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## TomAwesome (Apr 13, 2009)

^ Yeah, really.


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## E Lucevan Le Stelle (Apr 13, 2009)

I'd literally buy two straight away, especially if they did a Pro version... it would actually make 8 strings practical for me...


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## thinkpad20 (Apr 13, 2009)

I would be ALLLLLLLLLL over this! 25.5"-27" is perfect. Only thing I would change from your original specs is to have option for a rosewood or ebony fretboard... maybe a different bridge pickup too 

Ash body too. And the Intrepid body shape = win.


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## eegor (Apr 13, 2009)

darren said:


> Wow... that's amazing he's even considering it!



I was ready for him to respond with a flatout "no," but he said he might be able to make it happen if the factory agreed to it.


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## Cheesebuiscut (Apr 13, 2009)

My dream is a multiscale guitar I planned on buying a custom one day in the future when I could afford it just to have a multiscale guitar!

I want a 6 string version though 

and a neck pup!

Though I wouldn't mind an 8 string version at all, If they came out with it I'd be saving my pennies.


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## Justin Bailey (Apr 13, 2009)

It's inevitable that this thread turns into an "I'll buy 68 of them if they have dragon inlays, 8 pickups hand wound by the pope and are dipped in gold" thread

lets get a proper yes or no from kurt before we start trying to change the whole design of this thing.


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## Cheesebuiscut (Apr 14, 2009)

Justin Bailey said:


> It's inevitable that this thread turns into an "I'll buy 68 of them if they have dragon inlays, 8 pickups hand wound by the pope and are dipped in gold" thread
> 
> lets get a proper yes or no from kurt before we start trying to change the whole design of this thing.



 A neck pup Isn't all that much to ask for is it?

He'll I'd settle for an empty neck pup slot with a route to the cc.


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## benagain (Apr 14, 2009)

nice to find this thread. I asked kurt a couple months ago bout the multiscale 8 string and he said " probably never" .. but maybe hes changed his mind .. i own a novax 8 and am currently having a custom 8 fan fret acoustic built .. .i know theres not a huge market but id love to see some mass produced models a little cheaper then 3 grand...


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## Fler (Apr 14, 2009)

There's not a _huge_ market, but the market is there. And you've got to keep in mind a lot of the market is unexplored because to access this sort of instrument, so far one has had to go down the custom shop route in order to explore the design. I think Agile, considering the success shown in their extended range designs so far, are in a relatively good position to undertake this project and make a dent in the market. The vast majority of people who would buy these instruments are people who have explored the extended range world already, and see this is the next logical step forward. Now doubt many would prefer this design to a single-scale length design due to the ergonomics and general benefits that the multiscale format provides, and i'm certainly one of them. Generally these slightly more specialised markets are never explored until someone takes the leap and goes for it. After all that's how the guitar has evolved over the last how ever many decades...


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## eegor (Apr 14, 2009)

Cheesebuiscut said:


> He'll I'd settle for an empty neck pup slot with a route to the cc.


 
I was actually going to suggest something like this so we can save costs and have people order their own pickups for it if they wanted, but I didn't think many people would go for it.


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## Justin Bailey (Apr 14, 2009)

Cheesebuiscut said:


> A neck pup Isn't all that much to ask for is it?
> 
> He'll I'd settle for an empty neck pup slot with a route to the cc.



no no, wasn't really geared toward you. I just mean in general. But I think if this does get off the ground the first run will probably be as bare bones as possible, but that doesnt mean future runs cant have more options.


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## eegor (Apr 14, 2009)

^Always a valid point.


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## Hollowway (Apr 14, 2009)

Fler said:


> There's not a _huge_ market, but the market is there. And you've got to keep in mind a lot of the market is unexplored because to access this sort of instrument, so far one has had to go down the custom shop route in order to explore the design. I think Agile, considering the success shown in their extended range designs so far, are in a relatively good position to undertake this project and make a dent in the market. The vast majority of people who would buy these instruments are people who have explored the extended range world already, and see this is the next logical step forward. Now doubt many would prefer this design to a single-scale length design due to the ergonomics and general benefits that the multiscale format provides, and i'm certainly one of them. Generally these slightly more specialised markets are never explored until someone takes the leap and goes for it. After all that's how the guitar has evolved over the last how ever many decades...


 

Ayyyy-men, to that! It's really cool that Rondo/Kurt see this as a niche market for them, and they are pretty much able to get us to buy into things before they manufacture them. That way he doesn't have to make a whole bunch of something and just have to market it against the big boys, and we get to have what we want at a low cost. Shoot, if everything in my life were like that, I'd have a sweet semicustom house, car, etc. and still a bunch of change left over for living.


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## E Lucevan Le Stelle (Apr 21, 2009)

Has anyone heard anything yet? just wondering...


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## eegor (Apr 22, 2009)

Not so far. I'm just going to assume Kurt's busy with whatever he was talking about earlier in the thread.


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## Æxitosus (Apr 27, 2009)

does multiscale mean that the pickups are fanned? or what?
sorry, super-noob here


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## eegor (Apr 27, 2009)

Technically, the pickups don't have to be fanned, but fanning is a usually more accepted method as far as pickups go.


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## Æxitosus (Apr 28, 2009)

eegor said:


> Technically, the pickups don't have to be fanned, but fanning is a usually more accepted method as far as pickups go.



err i meant frets, sorry


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## Cheesebuiscut (Apr 28, 2009)

Yes it means the frets are fanned because there guitar starts at 1 scale length and works its way shorter or longer (depending on how your looking at it)

Making it AWESOMEEEE


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## Fler (Apr 28, 2009)

Generally I feel that a fanned fret guitar, requires fanned pickups. keep its even across the board, tonal wise.


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## GorillaSalsa (May 3, 2009)

Fler said:


> Generally I feel that a fanned fret guitar, requires fanned pickups. keep its even across the board, tonal wise.



I don't care if they're fanned or not, if they can make one for less than $1k, I'm on it.


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## technomancer (May 4, 2009)

If this ever happened with a reasonable fan size I'd probably buy one just to try fanned frets without dropping a lot of money on a custom


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## 7deadlysins666 (May 4, 2009)

technomancer said:


> If this ever happened with a reasonable fan size I'd probably buy one just to try fanned frets without dropping a lot of money on a custom



+1 There are two things I would Love to own without paying and arm and a leg and hoping that I like it.... Fanned Frets, and Scalloped frets (and maybe both at the same time). I've never played on either but would really love to try.


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## Tuned2F (May 4, 2009)

If a fanned fret 8 string was offered I would definitely order one ASAP. 

I would prefer some sort of middle or neck pickup and a non-EMG model because of how compressed they sound with my Vetta.


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## Raxz Slim (Sep 6, 2009)

Scali said:


> As said in the other thread, I think that's exactly NOT what a lead player would want. As a lead player I want a neck pickup and a tremolo. I would never get a guitar with single pickup, and I only buy something without a tremolo if it's a Les Paul.
> 
> If fanned frets mean I can't get a neck pickup and tremolo, then fanned frets are out for me, the others weigh far heavier.
> 
> In this case I think the tremolo is especially important, because there are already plenty of 8-strings with a fixed bridge and 2 pickups on the market. I think tremolo should be THE most discering feature from the regular Intrepid.


I agree, a tremolo and neck pup are important.


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## nogg (Oct 30, 2009)

Single passive pick_up.

Fanned Fretboard maxed for playability.

Ebony - Option.

Interceptor Body Pro Neck Thru?

Price Point under 1k$ - out the door - with Case.


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## TomAwesome (Oct 30, 2009)

A trem and a solid cap aren't likely, since those would drive costs up. A veneer might be doable, but I wouldn't count on it, at least not on the first run.


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## nogg (Oct 30, 2009)

TomAwesome said:


> A trem and a solid cap aren't likely, since those would drive costs up. A veneer might be doable, but I wouldn't count on it, at least not on the first run.




A Playability Optimized Fanned Fret platform
is the main concern.

Kahler has a Fanned 8 Tremolo

Note from Q-Tuners Pick_ups:


Hello:
For custom work, you're looking at a price
tag of 400- US$ and a delivery time of 3 months. FYI, most 8 string players
install a neodymium BL-5 or 6 Q-tuner with fantastic results. 

The clean parts on this track were recorded using a BL-5 Medium Z Q-tuner installed in the neck
position of an 8 string guitar:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xaB6dZE9j0&feature=related 

Use headphones please. 

Btw, it's not even a HQ recording. 

Feel free to e-mail me again in case
you have any further questions.

Rgds, Erno.


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## screamindaemon (May 11, 2010)

I was doing random research when I came across this post. 
I think it may be worth while to pick things up again now that the Pendulums are out.

True, these first-runs aren't spectacular, and the pickups aren't angled properly but it is proven that Agile is capable of putting out multiscale patterns. How good the fretting is at this point will be seen when the first Pendulum NGD's are up around September.

So now that the 7's are out, albeit in very limited runs, what are your thoughts about a similarly made 8 string?
I know I'm all in...


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## coreysMonster (May 11, 2010)

screamindaemon said:


> I was doing random research when I came across this post.
> I think it may be worth while to pick things up again now that the Pendulums are out.
> 
> True, these first-runs aren't spectacular, and the pickups aren't angled properly but it is proven that Agile is capable of putting out multiscale patterns. How good the fretting is at this point will be seen when the first Pendulum NGD's are up around September.
> ...


it depends, I'd say wait for more people to try out the Pendulum and see what kind of issues it has (if any), also I doubt Kurt would make any fanned 8's if the 7's don't sell well.

Just my 2cents, though.


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## Hollowway (May 12, 2010)

coreysMonster said:


> also I doubt Kurt would make any fanned 8's if the 7's don't sell well.



True, but I hope he doesn't make the call on the current model, because I imagine a lot of people are staying away from that because of the specs and design (i.e. no neck pickup, non-fanned bridge pickup, silver hardware, etc.)


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## guitareben (May 24, 2010)

Damn i would kill to have a fanned 8! c'mon kurt, you have done fanned 7's, now just do fanned 8s with neck pickups, and neck and bridge pickups fanned (slanted or watever - n00b here  ). just make sure it is 25.5 - 27 hehe


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## MF_Kitten (May 24, 2010)

Agile Pendulum 7 Flat Black B Stock w/Case at RondoMusic.com anyone wanna grab this so we can have a peek at it?


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## goherpsNderp (May 24, 2010)

MF_Kitten said:


> Agile Pendulum 7 Flat Black B Stock w/Case at RondoMusic.com anyone wanna grab this so we can have a peek at it?



nobody wants to grab it because the pickup isn't slanted.


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## Cheesebuiscut (May 24, 2010)

Yeah I might have considered buying one of those if the pickup was fanned but at the moment with the way it is nope.


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## Soopahmahn (May 24, 2010)

Cheesebuiscut said:


> Yeah I might have considered buying one of those if the pickup was fanned but at the moment with the way it is nope.



All that bad? Perhaps going with an active would smooth out the differences a little bit.


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## Cheesebuiscut (May 24, 2010)

Well picture having a thinner neck pickup tone for your low strings and a bridge pickup tone for your high strings and nothing else... the exact opposite of what most people would want unless you were looking for shrill highs and loose lows.

Nty.


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## Soopahmahn (May 24, 2010)

Cheesebuiscut said:


> Well picture having a thinner neck pickup tone for your low strings and a bridge pickup tone for your high strings and nothing else... the exact opposite of what most people would want unless you were looking for shrill highs and loose lows.



Yeah I'm with ya, but aren't we talking about a pretty minor difference here? That pickup slant _has _worked for Fender and Kramer for how long? I can see it's non-ideal but it can't sound like shit just because the pickup is angled a bit. Again, I think throwing a Blackout or 808 in there would help with the evenness, though will require routing.


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## Durero (May 24, 2010)

I have to agree that the non-slanted pickup is a deal-breaker. Really defeats the tonal benefits of multi-scale designs.


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## MF_Kitten (May 24, 2010)

it could be used for jazzy clean stuff though. clear leads, but soft bass strings.


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## Cheesebuiscut (May 24, 2010)

Soopahmahn said:


> stuff



I was actually about to reference those guitars since they're absolutely horrible for anything I'm trying to do because of the slanted pickup.

Think of it exactly like that slanted humbucker, except put the bass end way more towards the middle position and you have what it would be like on the agile. 

Its not ideal at all.


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## Durero (May 24, 2010)

MF_Kitten said:


> it could be used for jazzy clean stuff though. clear leads, but soft bass strings.



Of course it's a matter of taste, but I think any traditional jazz guitarist would disagree about the appeal of twangy treble strings. Jazz guitars have a remarkably consistent mellow tone from throughout their range. They often don't have bridge pickups at all, only neck.


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## MF_Kitten (May 24, 2010)

true. i wouldn´t want it myself, either 

just thinking about the neck=rhythm, bridge=lead type train of thought


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## DJENTxCORE901 (Jun 12, 2010)

Big Question-

Are fanned frets hard to play? I searched for a thread and only found this one by the way.
They seem like they would throw me off. Is it big adjustment from normal frets?


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## Deadnightshade (Jun 12, 2010)

DJENTxCORE901 said:


> Big Question-
> 
> Are fanned frets hard to play? I searched for a thread and only found this one by the way.
> They seem like they would throw me off. Is it big adjustment from normal frets?



Not at all..The adjustment is minimal it's just a matter of minutes..I own a 28"-25" 8 string and it's just great both tonewise and playwise


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## CFB (Jun 12, 2010)

I haven't played one myself, but haven't heard of anyone having any big problems adjusting to it.


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## Synaptic (Jun 29, 2010)

I just bought that B stock 7 last night, I'm really looking forward to it!

So many of you here have been knocking on the pup configuration, but frankly this is exactly how I want it to be. If you look at other fanned fret guitars, notably by the leader in custom fanned fret guitars Novax, you'll see that very few of his instruments bother with implementing a slanted pup.

Example:

Novax Guitars: Photo Archives: Guitars

There's another thread about the Agile Pendulum 7 second run coming up with the slanted pickup and different headstock. I think the model I bought is superior with the reverse headstock and standard pup configuration.

With the money I saved by getting the B stock that comes with the case, I bought a Q-tuner GL-7 which I'm going to wire directly to the output. Any issues about the pup not being slanted are moot using a q-tuner, as the massive array of pole configurations means I can tailor each string to sound exactly as I want. It's going to be major win.

And I have to thank you all too for hating on this awesome instrument and letting it languish in the shop for so long until I came by to snatch it up!


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## ncbrock (Jun 29, 2010)

id like to get one, but not a fan of the 27-25.5 Id rather have a 30-27 fan in an 8 string rather than a 7


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## leandroab (Jun 29, 2010)

Synaptic said:


> I just bought that B stock 7 last night, I'm really looking forward to it!
> 
> So many of you here have been knocking on the pup configuration, but frankly this is exactly how I want it to be. If you look at other fanned fret guitars, notably by the leader in custom fanned fret guitars Novax, you'll see that very few of his instruments bother with implementing a slanted pup.
> 
> ...



Uh..

Congrats?


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## 101101110110001 (Jul 13, 2010)

I'm here - in Russia waiting when Kurt done a multiscale 8 string Agle with Kahler 8 tremolo for serial production. I never played before on 8 string and multiscale guitars. 3 weeks ago I sold my 7 string Ibanez for have a money to by 8 string Agile.
now about specification:
I think better scale length for me - 23-27 (because tune is: dropped G and 1st string - high G). no matter type of wood on body and on fingerboard. 1 or 2 active pickup. construction of neck - what easter to produce on serial production on factory. no matter what finish.
I know that a few first run's will have a fixed bridge and simple specification's like first Interpid's 8, but I really want kahler! And I'll be waiting for it. I think after 1-1,5 year it will happen. I think price for 8 multiscale with kahler will be ~1000$, maybe 1200-1500 if neckthrough and 2 active pop's.
Peace, bro's. and again, sorry for my worst english. I think you understand what I tell.


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## theperfectcell6 (Jul 13, 2010)

Multiscale with a Kahler...? 

EDIT:Nevermind, I wasn't thinking.


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## LamaSabachthani (Jul 13, 2010)

eegor said:


> Well, as many of you know, there's been some talk about a multiscale 8-string Agile in the "Intrepid lead interest" thread, and I thought it'd be a good idea to start its own thread for discussion.
> 
> Now, before we begin, I've read that Kurt is hesitant (if not unwilling or unable) to produce a multiscale guitar, so I just want to make sure that everyone knows that *THIS IS JUST SPECULATIVE DISCUSSION*. There's no guarantee that this idea will ever leave this forum or be approved by Kurt, so don't get your hopes up just yet.
> 
> ...



Didn't he recently make a limited run of 25.5-27.00" 7 strings (the Pendulums?)


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## LamaSabachthani (Jul 13, 2010)

Scali said:


> As said in the other thread, I think that's exactly NOT what a lead player would want. As a lead player I want a neck pickup and a tremolo. I would never get a guitar with single pickup, and I only buy something without a tremolo if it's a Les Paul.
> 
> If fanned frets mean I can't get a neck pickup and tremolo, then fanned frets are out for me, the others weigh far heavier.
> 
> In this case I think the tremolo is especially important, because there are already plenty of 8-strings with a fixed bridge and 2 pickups on the market. I think tremolo should be THE most discering feature from the regular Intrepid.



Seriously? Even if you could have a hardtail multiscale 8? I'm pretty sure I could compromise... There aren't any production 8's to my knowledge where you can have a tremolo to be honest anyways... and most of them have a scale length so long (as is necessary) that you can't bend the treble strings easily unless you happen to have been gifted the fingers of SRV


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## 101101110110001 (Jul 13, 2010)

what do you think about playing fast arpeggio on multiscale? it'll be problem?


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## jats (Jul 13, 2010)

ncbrock said:


> id like to get one, but not a fan of the 27-25.5 Id rather have a 30-27 fan in an 8 string rather than a 7



A major benefit for most people is that multiscale allows to have ideal scale length for both treble and bass strings. higher strings sound worse at longer lengths if you want to retain standard tuning, and no one want's a 25.5" 8 string do they?

Fanning the frets allows the tone you want out of your bass side, while still having crispy high's that sound and play just like a 6 string.

This is, of course, presuming the player wants a standard tuning set up. Let's be honest, no one would make a run of guitars with some specific people in mind, it's easier to go with what the 'general' setup would be - one of my friends doesn't want multiscale because he plays his 8 string in his own weird open tunings, whereas I would never have an 8 string without fanned frets as I play in all fourths so my high B and E strings are tuned up half a step to C and F, long scale length for C/F is not ideal


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## Durero (Jul 14, 2010)

101101110110001 said:


> what do you think about playing fast arpeggio on multiscale? it'll be problem?


No problem at all. I find many arpeggio shapes easier on multiscale than straight frets.




jats said:


> A major benefit for most people is that multiscale allows to have ideal scale length for both treble and bass strings. higher strings sound worse at longer lengths if you want to retain standard tuning, and no one want's a 25.5" 8 string do they?
> 
> Fanning the frets allows the tone you want out of your bass side, while still having crispy high's that sound and play just like a 6 string.
> 
> This is, of course, presuming the player wants a standard tuning set up. Let's be honest, no one would make a run of guitars with some specific people in mind, it's easier to go with what the 'general' setup would be - one of my friends doesn't want multiscale because he plays his 8 string in his own weird open tunings, whereas I would never have an 8 string without fanned frets as I play in all fourths so my high B and E strings are tuned up half a step to C and F, long scale length for C/F is not ideal



Not sure if I'm misunderstanding your post, but if you're trying to say that 30" - 27" fan is not ideal for your 4ths tuning with high c & f I have to say I disagree.

27" is only 1 fret longer than 25.5" scale so a high f at 27" is equivalent to high F# on 25.5" scale. You won't even need special strings to accomplish that high f and you'll still be able to bend up 2 semitones easily.

Remember the string tension and feel is completely under your control by what string gages you choose and you don't need to limit yourself to 25.5" for your high f.


 on 4ths tuning by the way - it rocks


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## LamaSabachthani (Jul 14, 2010)

Hollowway said:


> True, but I hope he doesn't make the call on the current model, because I imagine a lot of people are staying away from that because of the specs and design (i.e. no neck pickup, non-fanned bridge pickup, silver hardware, etc.)



Although apparently that one guy who bought one of the B-models said it sounded absolutely sick despite the placement of the pickup


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## jats (Jul 16, 2010)

Durero said:


> Not sure if I'm misunderstanding your post, but if you're trying to say that 30" - 27" fan is not ideal for your 4ths tuning with high c & f I have to say I disagree.
> 
> 27" is only 1 fret longer than 25.5" scale so a high f at 27" is equivalent to high F# on 25.5" scale. You won't even need special strings to accomplish that high f and you'll still be able to bend up 2 semitones easily.
> 
> ...



No I wouldn't need special strings, but I would have to alter my string gauge, which I don't want, that's kinda what I'm getting at, fanned frets allows for 'standard' string gauge across the board. Obviously there is no such thing as standard since it is a personal choice. But it's like a piano, the scale length from bass to treble changes for a more optimum length per pitch and gauge. The guitar allows us to 'cut' the scale length with frets, but if i were to play the high f string open I would prefer it be a thicker string on across a shorter length, than a lighter string over a longer length. 

My main point though was toward who I was replying to that it's more likely to get more 'standard' lengths each side to fit more players, than Rondo to make a length that only fits a niche group. If you really need something specific it's a matter of money and a luthier, haha.


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## Durero (Jul 16, 2010)

^ Fair enough. I understand your intended point better now.

Personally I'd go for a much larger fan like 25" - 30" or more, but perhaps that's too radical for players who've never tried multi-scale before and may scare some away.


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