# Fear Factory - Aggression Continuum



## sonoftheoldnorth (Sep 11, 2020)

https://gf.me/u/yxy4gc
Legal troubles over. 

Prepare fawr
DOH
NAY
SHUN


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## DeathbyDesign (Sep 11, 2020)

I kind of wish it was a Kickstarter instead of just a gofund me so people could get cds/limited vinyls or signed items with the money they put up. I thought they were self releasing it with this money but looks like Nuclear Blast is putting this out.


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## sonoftheoldnorth (Sep 11, 2020)

Makes sense. 

Apparently there's some disagreement between Dino and Burton now


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## Chiba666 (Sep 11, 2020)

Oh dear, this will be the Death of the band. The final nail in the sorry saga of FF. such a shame


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 11, 2020)

If this is gonna be the band's last album (IF it releases), then it better be worth the wait. 

Also I do believe a bit of Burt's side of the story. I remember he "leaked" the art + title. Also Dino's been going through a divorce. Also him and Burt seem to not have been in much contact since the Genexus tour/FF lawsuit. Apparently Campos isn't on this record either. Understandable due to Static X doing their shit again.


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## Werecow (Sep 12, 2020)

Dino recently posted this on social media...

"Today 9/2 is my 54th Birthday. I’ve been through a lot of shit these past 4 years. FF Lawsuits (I won) Bankruptcy Lawsuit ( I won) Huge Legal Debt (need help) Divorce( not easy) W/help from my family and friends Im thriving & surviving. New FF music in 2021"

If he really has done this solely for his legal bills, he'll be sued yet again surely? If not by associates of the band but by the fans if they've been lied to?

I've never known who to believe or trust in Fear Factory for years now. They always seem to be either up to something dodgy, back stabbing, talking shit, or causing general trouble with each other


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## Korneo (Sep 12, 2020)

That's so lame and cringy if it"s true....


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## Dwellingers (Sep 12, 2020)

They (Dino) is halfway there now. im hoping for a new record - love FF!


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## Kaura (Sep 12, 2020)

New statement just got posted on Facebook.


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## Werecow (Sep 12, 2020)

Kaura said:


> New statement just got posted on Facebook.
> 
> View attachment 84945



I'm guessing FF never tour again after this. Either that or FF becomes one of those tribute bands with one original member.


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## Kaura (Sep 12, 2020)

Werecow said:


> I'm guessing FF never tour again after this. Either that or FF becomes one of those tribute bands with one original member.



Yeah, I don't know what or who to believe in but a part of me really wants to think that Dino sincerely wants to put out the new album while Burton just lurks in the shadows waiting for the money to come rolling in.

Whatever the case is, it seems that the relationship between Dino and Burton isn't the best these days so even if they do manage to get the album out, will we ever see them live again? Who knows.

I kinda want to donate to make the album happen and even though, honestly speaking, I don't except it to be Demanufacture part II but all the drama that's been going for years regarding the album, it kinda makes me want to hear it.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 12, 2020)

Seems like it's gotten to the point where everyone in FF hates each other now.  COW still fucking hates Burt and Dino, Burt was to be reclusive, Dino wants to release new music but is being picky as fuck about it (and apparently won the FF lawsuit which is why COW is so bitter towards him).

Honestly it feels like given what happened, Dino solely owns the FF name now? Probably why Burt is so pissed off. He also keeps talking about how "he" solely won the FF lawsuit.


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## Werecow (Sep 12, 2020)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Honestly it feels like given what happened, Dino solely owns the FF name now?



The FF social media suddenly started putting out posts with copy&paste wording from Dino's, so looks like it yeh.

Demanufacture is i think my joint favourite album of all time, and Soul of a New Machine is very close too, so i'll always be interested in what they put out. I love every song on those albums, but i started feeling a bit meh about an increasing percentage of songs on albums from Obsolete onwards. Still, it's difficult to see them fighting, and even more difficult when i can't even clearly see who is wrong and right over the years. The whole switching between the two "versions" of FF with Burton staying constant, and now this is incredibly weird.


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## sirbuh (Sep 12, 2020)

Dino has a patreon page now, which includes riff break downs etc. 
Somewhat surprised they couldn't self correct after all this time.


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## Bogner (Sep 12, 2020)

My initial thought is who cares? Everybody has set backs in life. Everybody goes through hard times. Hoping the "fans" will pitch in financially and "bail you out" is about as classless as you can get. Get another job, hell, get three and handle your business and pay your bills/debts and get back to reality. 

Based on all this, I lost what little interest I had in the band and could care less what happens going forward.


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## Kaura (Sep 12, 2020)

Bogner said:


> My initial thought is who cares? Everybody has set backs in life. Everybody goes through hard times. Hoping the "fans" will pitch in financially and "bail you out" is about as classless as you can get. Get another job, hell, get three and handle your business and pay your bills/debts and get back to reality.
> 
> Based on all this, I lost what little interest I had in the band and could care less what happens going forward.



You're seriously recommending a guy who's been living the rock star life for 3 decades to get a minimum wage job or three to pay for his next album? I'd understand if we were talking about some random dude working on his first album but if I was a doctor or a lawyer, I sure as hell wouldn't go back to working in a burger joint no matter what.

Iirc, people actually funded the second Wintersun album even though most of the expenses went into building a fucking sauna for the band.


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## Bogner (Sep 12, 2020)

Kaura said:


> You're seriously recommending a guy who's been living the rock star life for 3 decades to get a minimum wage job or three to pay for his next album? I'd understand if we were talking about some random dude working on his first album but if I was a doctor or a lawyer, I sure as hell wouldn't go back to working in a burger joint no matter what.
> 
> Iirc, people actually funded the second Wintersun album even though most of the expenses went into building a fucking sauna for the band.


LOL....are you serious? I am highly recommending that his nuts drop, he man's up and pays his fucking bills without crying to fans for a bail out. Who said anything about minimum wage or a burger joint? He is a random dude, not one bit better (or worse) than the next person on the planet. Obviously "stardom" has made him delusional because he is unable to finance his projects and spending money he doesn't have. 

I am unaware of the Wintersun situation one way or the other but if indeed they did that then they are pathetic as well.


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## Kaura (Sep 12, 2020)

Bogner said:


> LOL....are you serious? I am highly recommending that his nuts drop, he man's up and pays his fucking bills without crying to fans for a bail out. Who said anything about minimum wage or a burger joint? He is a random dude, not one bit better (or worse) than the next person on the planet. Obviously "stardom" has made him delusional because he is unable to finance his projects and spending money he doesn't have.
> 
> I am unaware of the Wintersun situation one way or the other but if indeed they did that then they are pathetic as well.



Sounds like someone works in a burger joint instead of a renowned band. 

I mean, I do. But yet. If I'd have to imagine myself in Dino's place. I'd sure as fuck would try the donation way before getting an actual job and while I don't know what Dino's actual background is, considering the fact that he's been in bands since he was 22-23 ('89 according to wikipedia), he probably doesn't have a degree of any sort.


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## sonoftheoldnorth (Sep 12, 2020)

He's already explained all this legal shit with the bitter COW has drained him, along with a divorce and some other things. Bit more than just getting a job.


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 12, 2020)

This is probably why we've seen an uptick of Dino LACS NGDs. 

I think it's in poor taste to hold material ransom from fans, if it's really that great it should do fine as a standalone product. 

Obviously if folks are willing to pay upfront that's thier prerogative. 

All that said, given the state of the world and economy, it's not like he can just tour with another band/project to raise funds, it's pretty much online guitar lessons and maybe guest spots as sole revenue.


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## Kaura (Sep 12, 2020)

MaxOfMetal said:


> This is probably why we've seen an uptick of Dino LACS NGDs.
> 
> I think it's in poor taste to hold material ransom from fans, if it's really that great it should do fine as a standalone product.
> 
> ...



But he said that they still need to track the drums and the mixing & mastering on top of that. Do you think he should be flipping burgers for the next 10 years to afford that? I thought it was odd that they had to put their own money in it since they're releasing it under Nuclear Blast but since (allegedly) they're not giving them any more money then...


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 12, 2020)

Kaura said:


> But he said that they still need to track the drums and the mixing & mastering on top of that.



He said, he said. I guess it comes down to who you believe, Dino vs. Burt.



> Do you think he should be flipping burgers for the next 10 years to afford that?



I never said that, in fact I said there are other income streams related to his craft. 

That said, I don't know why he should get a pass on working because he made some OK industrial albums like 20 years ago. Let the fans decide. 



> I thought it was odd that they had to put their own money in it since they're releasing it under Nuclear Blast but since (allegedly) they're not giving them any more money then...



That's what we call a "red flag". Where did the advance money go? Either to an album like Burt says, or it got drained for other "uses".


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## Kaura (Sep 12, 2020)

@MaxOfMetal 

Like you said. It all comes to down to believing.

#teamDINOGANG


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## Bogner (Sep 12, 2020)

Kaura said:


> Sounds like someone works in a burger joint instead of a renowned band.
> 
> I mean, I do. But yet. If I'd have to imagine myself in Dino's place. I'd sure as fuck would try the donation way before getting an actual job and while I don't know what Dino's actual background is, considering the fact that he's been in bands since he was 22-23 ('89 according to wikipedia), he probably doesn't have a degree of any sort.


Not but's about it. Either you agree or you disagree. Your perspective is what is wrong with society. Society owes nobody shit. If that is the case, everybody has a story and could seek the "donation" route for anything. Why not take responsibility and handle your own shit? I don't care how "successful" a band may be, the shelf life is only so long. So when that time expires is he just supposed to seek donations for the rest fo his life because he was a musician? Who said anything about having to have a degree in order to get a job? You are funny man...fucked up in the head but funny. By the way, could you PayPal me some cash, I bought a shit ton of gear since the Covid bullshit hit and I could use the cash...you know, to help out cuz times is tough and I'm kind of a big deal.


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## Werecow (Sep 12, 2020)

Interesting wording from Burton  Surely if an album comes out with his voice on it, he'd benefit from it? Wtf is going on.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 12, 2020)

I mean even Dino said he wasn't. ***IF WHAT DINO SAYS ITS TRUE***, then it's all going to pay people to make the album happen. Doesn't seem like Dino's getting anything out of it, it's all going towards the album.

Like I said, IF WHAT DINO SAYS IS TRUE.

I'm also curious to find out if any of the money Nuclear Blast gave them was used towards the lawsuit. Allegedly Ibanez was involved in the Fear Factory lawsuit, so I wonder if Nuclear Blast was as well.


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## Zer01 (Sep 12, 2020)

This is the craziest band breakup ever. It’s been going on since 2002. These 4 guys have not played together at the same time and still managed to put out 5 albums, most of them really good.

Sounds like Burt is saying put the album out, whatever, I’m doing The Watchers now. Dino says I need more money to finish it. Burt says no you don’t, it’s finished, you’re greedy.

I just want to hear the thing.


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## Kaura (Sep 12, 2020)

Bogner said:


> If that is the case, everybody has a story and could seek the "donation" route for anything.



Yeah, that's called being a "minority".


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## eggy in a bready (Sep 12, 2020)

Bogner said:


> Not but's about it. Either you agree or you disagree. Your perspective is what is wrong with society. Society owes nobody shit. If that is the case, everybody has a story and could seek the "donation" route for anything. Why not take responsibility and handle your own shit? I don't care how "successful" a band may be, the shelf life is only so long. So when that time expires is he just supposed to seek donations for the rest fo his life because he was a musician? Who said anything about having to have a degree in order to get a job? You are funny man...fucked up in the head but funny. By the way, could you PayPal me some cash, I bought a shit ton of gear since the Covid bullshit hit and I could use the cash...you know, to help out cuz times is tough and I'm kind of a big deal.


if fans wanna give dino money, then more power to him. and it seems like they do, considering he's raised over $10k so far.

but no, he should squander all that and get some menial job somewhere. yeah, that makes sense


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## duffbeer33 (Sep 12, 2020)

One of my all time favorite bands, but I'll admit it's been so difficult/depressing to keep up with all these legal squabbles in the past few decades. Probably all comes down to money -- yet the irony of it all is that if the same four guys who put out Demanufacture/Obsolete could have just stuck together and put out releases regularly throughout the early 2000s, they would have been quite successful and would be very comfortable financially. But alas, it never works that way, and instead we get just 5 releases in 20 years (well, 4 if you don't count transgression), each with a totally different iteration of the band, etc...


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 12, 2020)

eggy in a bready said:


> but no, he should squander all that and get some menial job somewhere. yeah, that makes sense



I just don't know why "get a job" means "put in applications at Arby's". There are plenty of lucrative avenues for an artist as popular as Dino to make money. Plenty of players use teaching, clinics, guest spots, endorsements, merchandising, etc. to pad thier income, it's part of the hustle. 

Like I said, power to him, and it's up to the fans to decide.


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## eggy in a bready (Sep 13, 2020)

MaxOfMetal said:


> I just don't know why "get a job" means "put in applications at Arby's". There are plenty of lucrative avenues for an artist as popular as Dino to make money. Plenty of players use teaching, clinics, guest spots, endorsements, merchandising, etc. to pad thier income, it's part of the hustle.
> 
> Like I said, power to him, and it's up to the fans to decide.


true. i had assumed he was already doing all of that. surely he can't be coasting solely off of FF money


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## fps (Sep 13, 2020)

Bogner said:


> Not but's about it. Either you agree or you disagree. Your perspective is what is wrong with society. Society owes nobody shit. If that is the case, everybody has a story and could seek the "donation" route for anything. Why not take responsibility and handle your own shit? I don't care how "successful" a band may be, the shelf life is only so long. So when that time expires is he just supposed to seek donations for the rest fo his life because he was a musician? Who said anything about having to have a degree in order to get a job? You are funny man...fucked up in the head but funny. By the way, could you PayPal me some cash, I bought a shit ton of gear since the Covid bullshit hit and I could use the cash...you know, to help out cuz times is tough and I'm kind of a big deal.



At the end of the day all he’s trying to do is make money by available routes, and this is another available route. Funny how people get precious about how others are making their money when they’re in financial difficulty, but not when they’re mega rich and doing immoral things.


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 13, 2020)

fps said:


> At the end of the day all he’s trying to do is make money by available routes, and this is another available route. Funny how people get precious about how others are making their money when they’re in financial difficulty, but not when they’re mega rich and doing immoral things.



I don't think it's the asking for money thing, I just think there's something of a black cloud over what exactly the money is for.

I'm all for folks asking for help. Nothing wrong with that at all.


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## Bogner (Sep 13, 2020)

MaxOfMetal said:


> I just don't know why "get a job" means "put in applications at Arby's". There are plenty of lucrative avenues for an artist as popular as Dino to make money. Plenty of players use teaching, clinics, guest spots, endorsements, merchandising, etc. to pad thier income, it's part of the hustle.
> 
> Like I said, power to him, and it's up to the fans to decide.



Good to know there is at least one other forum member with some intelligence.  

I find it both fascinating and hilarious how some people on here defend high tech begging all the while dismissing personal responsibility. If he can hustle the public out of their hard earned money more power to him. His music career may be circling the drain but he may just have a future as a politician with cash grab skills like that. 

It looks incredibly shady to be asking for "help" when he has so much other shit going on with his life and there is no direction for said hand out other than "Hey, I am a successful rock star living the life since 89. Pay me!


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## Bogner (Sep 13, 2020)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I mean even Dino said he wasn't. ***IF WHAT DINO SAYS ITS TRUE***, then it's all going to pay people to make the album happen. Doesn't seem like Dino's getting anything out of it, it's all going towards the album.
> 
> Like I said, IF WHAT DINO SAYS IS TRUE.
> 
> I'm also curious to find out if any of the money Nuclear Blast gave them was used towards the lawsuit. Allegedly Ibanez was involved in the Fear Factory lawsuit, so I wonder if Nuclear Blast was as well.


If Dino is getting people to pay money to help him put out an album then Dino is getting something from it.....an album he will benefit from that he didn't pay for...lol.


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## Bogner (Sep 13, 2020)

fps said:


> At the end of the day all he’s trying to do is make money by available routes, and this is another available route. Funny how people get precious about how others are making their money when they’re in financial difficulty, but not when they’re mega rich and doing immoral things.


Just because a "route" is available doesn't make it right...lol. Robbing a bank is an option as well but I wouldn't recommend it. Right is right and wrong is wrong no matter who you are. Correct?

Of course tech begging does have a nice ring to it. So does get me a sammich!


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## Bogner (Sep 13, 2020)

eggy in a bready said:


> if fans wanna give dino money, then more power to him. and it seems like they do, considering he's raised over $10k so far.
> 
> but no, he should squander all that and get some menial job somewhere. yeah, that makes sense


$10K raised so far? What is the amount needed? Where is the money going? If it is to more than one entity, who are the entities? What is the breakdown of the totals to said entities? 

You seem ripe for some ocean front land I have for sale in central Arizona.  

"Squander all that"? He has done an amazing job of doing just that it would appear. What makes sense is going to work and paying your bills. It appears you disagree with that concept though...


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## fps (Sep 13, 2020)

Bogner said:


> Just because a "route" is available doesn't make it right...lol. Robbing a bank is an option as well but I wouldn't recommend it. Right is right and wrong is wrong no matter who you are. Correct?
> 
> Of course tech begging does have a nice ring to it. So does get me a sammich!



The comparison with robbing a bank is, to put it politely, flawed.


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## Bogner (Sep 13, 2020)

eggy in a bready said:


> true. i had assumed he was already doing all of that. surely he can't be coasting solely off of FF money


LOL....hilarious....he is coasting off the people giving him money...lol.


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## Bogner (Sep 13, 2020)

fps said:


> The comparison with robbing a bank is, to put it politely, flawed.


My point is spot on. Pick any "route" you like...

You said "available route" and I provided an available route. It is about as logical as people thinking I think he should go to Wendy's for a job.


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## fps (Sep 13, 2020)

Bogner said:


> My point is spot on. Pick any "route" you like...
> 
> You said "available route" and I provided an available route. It is about as logical as people thinking I think he should go to Wendy's for a job.



That’s not a legal route, being the first obvious flaw in the comparison.


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## Bogner (Sep 13, 2020)

fps said:


> That’s not a legal route, being the first obvious flaw in the comparison.



I expected better from you then that...

The simple thing to solve all of this is for him to get a job. End of story. 

Thanks for playing.


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## fps (Sep 13, 2020)

Bogner said:


> I expected better from you then that...
> 
> The simple thing to solve all of this is for him to get a job. End of story.
> 
> Thanks for playing.



Being arrogant doesn’t win an argument, strength of argument does. Your comparisons are weak and so is your line of argument. He has a job, people pay him to make music, either directly to him as here or through purchasing tickets to shows, records, merch etc. It is just another revenue stream.


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## eggy in a bready (Sep 13, 2020)

Bogner said:


> $10K raised so far? What is the amount needed? Where is the money going? If it is to more than one entity, who are the entities? What is the breakdown of the totals to said entities?
> 
> You seem ripe for some ocean front land I have for sale in central Arizona.
> 
> "Squander all that"? He has done an amazing job of doing just that it would appear. What makes sense is going to work and paying your bills. It appears you disagree with that concept though...


i don't know. i don't really give a shit. you seem to be really invested in this though. maybe ask him?


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## Demiurge (Sep 13, 2020)

"Hi, I am in a poor financial situation personally. I ran out of label money on an album that is half-complete. Please entrust me with more money."


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## j3ps3 (Sep 13, 2020)

Comparing gofundme to robbing a bank. Hilarious.


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## Bogner (Sep 13, 2020)

fps said:


> Being arrogant doesn’t win an argument, strength of argument does. Your comparisons are weak and so is your line of argument. He has a job, people pay him to make music, either directly to him as here or through purchasing tickets to shows, records, merch etc. It is just another revenue stream.


Don't mistake directness for arrogance. My points through this whole thread are solid yet some of you feel a handout is the answer to alleviating debt when working and paying them is the right thing to do. Maybe common sense eludes some folks...clearly it does here. Obviously his job isn't paying, paying enough, paying quick enough...insert the phrase that you feel is the nicest for you to swallow here...becasue he is asking for money to pay his responsibilities that he right now can not pay. That is the truth, yet I am supposedly off base, or wrong for pointing that out? Piss off! What good is a "job" if your "JOB" doesn't pay? Is the title more important or the ability to provide for yourself and pay your bills? And you call my logic flawed? 

Wait..wait...wait...I forgot. He is a "musician" and has been for a while so therefore that justifies asking for money without any accountability or disclosure of where the money is going. You can bet your ass any money he gets is going to whoever is giving him the most heat....(self preservation, even musicians have it) and if not, any additional money will go to whatever he needs for him. But again, he gets a pass because he is a "musician" right?

Let's try painting this portrait a new way. Leave music out of it. Let's talk modeling. Young beautiful woman is a beautiful successful model in the prime of her life (looks wise and marketability wise). She ages, begins not working like she did because her shelf life is expiring. She goes through agency troubles, a divorce, maybe an addiction and so forth. One day it is over. Bills are piling up, life isn't the same as it once was for her. Her response to her problems is I will ask all my fans to bail me out and pay my bills because I am a model. I won't go work because I was on the cover of numerous magazines decades ago. I am up to my eyeballs in debt and problems but I am a model. Reality check...

You are wiser than you give yourself credit for. If you can't at all get what I am saying it isn't because what i am saying is flawed, it is because you choose not to see the logic and practicality to what I am saying.


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## Bogner (Sep 13, 2020)

eggy in a bready said:


> i don't know. i don't really give a shit. you seem to be really invested in this though. maybe ask him?


Invested? Not a bit. I am however baffled at how misguided people can be and how illogical they have become. This thread was a great example of where society is as a whole.


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## Bogner (Sep 13, 2020)

j3ps3 said:


> Comparing gofundme to robbing a bank. Hilarious.


If that is your take away on all I have said then you missed it entirely. Your misguided comment does make for good forum pile bait though.


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## Bogner (Sep 13, 2020)

Demiurge said:


> "Hi, I am in a poor financial situation personally. I ran out of label money on an album that is half-complete. Please entrust me with more money."


You forgot the divorce costs and sammiches...lol.


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## Kaura (Sep 13, 2020)

The way I see it @Bogner thinks we all should still be catching our own food with our bare hands. Making other people catch it for you is like robbing a bank.


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## j3ps3 (Sep 13, 2020)

I'm not disagreeing with your point, but you seem to know awful lot about where the money is going and how it's going to be spent (same thing with the guys defending Dino, too). Care to share sources to strengthen your point? If not, I wouldn't use it as an argument as you most likely know nothing about it. I could be wrong, but the way you talk about how the financial stuff in a band of that level works (Dino paying out of his own pocket) doesn't exactly make it look like you know what you're talking about. Again, I agree with your point, but the way you argument your stuff is just dumb.


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## Bogner (Sep 13, 2020)

Kaura said:


> The way I see it @Bogner thinks we all should still be catching our own food with our bare hands. Making other people catch it for you is like robbing a bank.


LOL...Your vision is blurred mate. I think people should pay for their own food. You know, take responsibility and be accountable for their own life kind of thing. I know, hard concept for the entitled, delusional, out of touch with reality types.


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## Kaura (Sep 13, 2020)

Bogner said:


> LOL...Your vision is blurred mate. I think people should pay for their own food. You know, take responsibility and be accountable for their own life kind of thing. I know, hard concept for the entitled, delusional, out of touch with reality types.



Hate to break it to you but you're the one out of touch with reality. Dino is not the first person to ask donations for an album release and he won't be the last. You're like the first person I've seen having a problem with that.


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## Bogner (Sep 13, 2020)

j3ps3 said:


> I'm not disagreeing with your point, (Great! Hard to disagree with logic and common sense) but you seem to know awful lot about where the money is going and how it's going to be spent (same thing with the guys defending Dino, too). (Dino has a shit ton of problems financially in several areas and has said he needs help. That scope is not only band/album related) Care to share sources to strengthen your point? (I am not sure how the points made could be any stronger then they already are.I could share things but you will just argue their validity.) If not, I wouldn't use it as an argument as you most likely know nothing about it. (...ok...lol) I could be wrong, (likely) but the way you talk about how the financial stuff in a band of that level works (I never addressed the overall band and finances of the band. My points are Dino related. Bands are a business and no two deals are alike in most cases. I don't know their specifics between them and their label and what type of % etc they get from the label. I don't know if it is a 360 deal or something else?) (Dino paying out of his own pocket) (Because Dino is asking for cash with financial troubles in many areas and there is no set amount disclosed being needed nor is an avenue for the money being disclosed. Things have already been grossly mismanaged...surely you understand this.)? doesn't exactly make it look like you know what you're talking about. (Oh?) Again, I agree with your point, but the way you argument your stuff is just dumb.(Your opinion is noted, I appreciate you agreeing with me in spite of you not liking my approach or delivery. Despite that, my points are logical, practical and stand.)



See above.


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## Bogner (Sep 13, 2020)

Kaura said:


> Hate to break it to you but you're the one out of touch with reality. Dino is not the first person to ask donations for an album release and he won't be the last. You're like the first person I've seen having a problem with that.


So according to your logic, if enough people do it then it isn't wrong? Has this now become a crowd funding situation? Again, just because people do something doesn't make it right...but I guess if enough people do it then it is ok...lol. Keep trying to blur the lines. It makes things interesting!

A crowd fund scenario is different then a bail out because you got in over your head and owe your ass to several entities and can't foot the bill. At least with a crowd fund situation you have a hope of getting a record for your 10 bucks...lol.


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## Kaura (Sep 13, 2020)

Bogner said:


> So according to your logic, if enough people do it then it isn't wrong? Has this now become a crowd funding situation? Again, just because people do something doesn't make it right...but I guess if enough people do it then it is ok...lol. Keep trying to blur the lines. It makes things interesting!
> 
> A crowd fund scenario is different then a bail out because you got in over your head and owe your ass to several entities and can't foot the bill. At least with a crowd fund situation you have a hope of getting a record for your 10 bucks...lol.



It's not wrong, as in illegal, no matter how hard you try to make it look that way. 

We Finns have a saying; "He who asks is not stupid but the one who pays" 

Go rant at the people who actually donated. 

I'm done with this debate.


----------



## sonoftheoldnorth (Sep 13, 2020)

Bogner just chill, your ranting ain't gonna change anything. Wasting your energy.


----------



## RevDrucifer (Sep 13, 2020)

I'm not really interested in reading more internet debating, so I'm just going to drop my opinion-

I find it a bit odd that if you go back through Dino's tweets and replies, you can see at one point he was discussing crowdfunding for both the album AND legal fees. Eventually, it turned to just the album. 

Now ya mix that with Burton's words and it starts painting a picture that legal fees are still part of the deal. 

Dino has said repeatedly on Twitter that they've "exceeded our limit on how much they can advance us". I sure hope touring makes a comeback soon or he's going to need another GoFundMe to pay back the label. 

All in all, I wish everyone the best. I stopped paying attention to FF for a while but Obsolete was a HUGE album for me and Burton, at one point, was a major influence on my vocals.


----------



## BrailleDecibel (Sep 13, 2020)

As a FF fan since '98, this is some sad shit to see...band in shambles, if it even exists at all after this, pretty much has been pure disappointment for me since "Mechanize", and all of the ridiculous drama and infighting over the years...they were a huge influence on my playing/writing style, and it saddens me to see What Will Become of this band (sorry, I had to).


----------



## Bogner (Sep 13, 2020)

Kaura said:


> It's not wrong, as in illegal, no matter how hard you try to make it look that way.
> 
> We Finns have a saying; "He who asks is not stupid but the one who pays"
> 
> ...


It was never about being legal. it was about being moral and having a little dignity and self respect. The suckers who donated are just that.


----------



## sirbuh (Sep 13, 2020)

i for one didnt see a thread about ff turning into a back door argument about the supposed entitled nature of society. good grief 2020.


----------



## Ralyks (Sep 13, 2020)

Don’t feed the troll, folks.

Anyway, after hearing the new Ascension of the Watchers track, if I can still get this after what appears to be Fear Factorys demise (after nearly 20 years of breaking up), we will, it was a good run while it lasted.


----------



## TedEH (Sep 13, 2020)

For a second I thought I was in the Wintersun thread again.


----------



## Werecow (Sep 13, 2020)

Ralyks said:


> Don’t feed the troll, folks.
> 
> Anyway, after hearing the new Ascension of the Watchers track, if I can still get this after what appears to be Fear Factorys demise (after nearly 20 years of breaking up), we will, it was a good run while it lasted.



I just listened to that new Ascension of the Watchers track last night, and i thought it was amazing. I liked it more than anything FF have put out for years.


----------



## Demiurge (Sep 14, 2020)

sirbuh said:


> i for one didnt see a thread about ff turning into a back door argument about the supposed entitled nature of society. good grief 2020.



Discussion of crowdfunding can get that way. It has been around for a long time now and I still haven't decided how I feel about it. When it works, it's an awesome story; when it doesn't, it can be a perfect shitstorm of entitlement and irresponsibility.


----------



## Splenetic (Sep 14, 2020)

I think y'all are forgetting that _under the surface they're not machines._


----------



## soul_lip_mike (Sep 14, 2020)

This thread made me go back to listen to some Demanufacture. God damn I forgot how good that album is.


----------



## leechmasterargentina (Sep 14, 2020)

Sad to see this. I think Dino should just leave FF behind and start something new. I don't forget that FF started going downhill after Dino and Burton had differences between them and Dino left the band. I wondered how they could have gone back together after what had happened in the past. Now I see that all remains the same. And I say this after having been a big fan of them, having traveled 1200 km on a bus to go see them live. It's ok to try to release a record after all was stuck because of the lawsuit. But trying to release it when one of the members (Burton in this case) disagrees with the methods or whatever, sounds like poor or no communication between them at all. I even wonder if Nuclear Blast is even willing to release the record of a band that one member acuses the other of scamming fans, and that probably won't tour anytime soon not only because of the pandemic, but also for this kind of disagreements between the members.

Sometimes is better not to force things, like an unfinished record when there's bad blood between members. If it gets released, sure I'll give it a listen on Spotify, but that's it. Sadly, if it's going to be a 1-man band when there were 4 members, he should start over and name it different.


----------



## Quiet Coil (Sep 14, 2020)

What’s less cringey - moving forward as
“Dino Cazares’
FEAR FACTORY”
or
Just going solo?

As a long time fan (Demanufacture and Obsolete tattoos and all) those are about the only two ways I could respect him as an artist anymore. All the best to the guy - my favored techniques owe him plenty - but yeah.


----------



## Ralyks (Sep 15, 2020)

As much as I respect Dino as a guitarist (and one of the reasons I got into 7 strings)...... But maybe it's time to go bring back Divine Heresy and just let Fear Factory finally die.


----------



## SDMFVan (Sep 15, 2020)

It's interesting to me that Nuclear Blast haven't said anything about this since all the drama with the GoFundMe started. If what Dino is saying is true and this is about raising the necessary funds to fix a subpar album NB could confirm that info and most of the speculation would go away. Even Andy Sneap or someone else who is supposedly working on mixing/mastering could chime in and back Dino up, but it's radio silence. 

It's also shady that Dino went the GoFundMe route and not something like Kickstarter or Indiegogo or even Bandcamp. People making a donation to get this album finished shouldn't have to then go out and buy a copy of the album. GoFundMe also makes it way easier for this album to never be released or at least released in the fashion Dino's promising.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Sep 15, 2020)

SDMFVan said:


> It's interesting to me that Nuclear Blast haven't said anything about this since all the drama with the GoFundMe started. If what Dino is saying is true and this is about raising the necessary funds to fix a subpar album NB could confirm that info and most of the speculation would go away. Even Andy Sneap or someone else who is supposedly working on mixing/mastering could chime in and back Dino up, but it's radio silence.
> 
> It's also shady that Dino went the GoFundMe route and not something like Kickstarter or Indiegogo or even Bandcamp. People making a donation to get this album finished shouldn't have to then go out and buy a copy of the album. GoFundMe also makes it way easier for this album to never be released or at least released in the fashion Dino's promising.



The label and contractors (possibly) working on the album are smart enough to stay out of this.


----------



## Wildebeest (Sep 15, 2020)

It's all about the he-says, she-says bullfish


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 15, 2020)

Dino says he's got an interview with Metalsucks coming out that'll explain a lot of stuff. 

It's gonna be... interesting.


----------



## Ralyks (Sep 15, 2020)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Dino says he's got an interview with Metalsucks coming out that'll explain a lot of stuff.
> 
> It's gonna be... interesting.



Sigh. Of course Metalsucks...


----------



## Lax (Sep 16, 2020)

All of this because they didn't fire the singer soon enough 
I'm half kidding because if you read the band's wiki, the drama level is laughable.

Don't get me wrong, demanufacture changed my life, I still listen to it, and even remember it being carmageddon's OST 
So I love fear factory and most of their songs.

It's just funnily packed in nonsense :
-I think they could have changed singer as soon as they heard him live (I can't find a bearable youtube live video), I don't think it would have endangered the deepness of their lyrics writing style
-The story of cazares recording the bass instead of the bassist because the guy couldn't play his parts tightly enough...Come on !
-The major that releases old demos and songs in 2002 just to make a little money...LoL shock to the system
-The singer saying several times he don't want to participate to aggressive lyrics and singing anymore, how could he just be at the wrong place that much XD

I could go on and on, but sometimes the pleasure is as big as the drama.

FF is dead, long live FF


----------



## leechmasterargentina (Sep 16, 2020)

Lax said:


> All of this because they didn't fire the singer soon enough
> I'm half kidding because if you read the band's wiki, the drama level is laughable.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, demanufacture changed my life, I still listen to it, and even remember it being carmageddon's OST
> ...



As regards to Dino recording the bass parts, that happened in their debut album, 'Soul Of A New Machine'. I'm not going to whine about because me and my former band did the same when we finally understood the bassist was going to ruin the record if we let him in the studio. I recorded the bass as well


----------



## Mathemagician (Sep 16, 2020)

eggy in a bready said:


> true. i had assumed he was already doing all of that. surely he can't be coasting solely off of FF money



He had some Divine Heresy money too.


----------



## p0ke (Sep 16, 2020)

leechmasterargentina said:


> Dino should just leave FF behind and start something new



Divine Heresy, anyone? Didn't end very well there either


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 16, 2020)

I actually think that Dino was supposed to release a solo album

But I guess he got the rights back to FF so those plants went kaput


----------



## Werecow (Sep 16, 2020)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I actually think that Dino was supposed to release a solo album
> 
> But I guess he got the rights back to FF so those plants went kaput



He's had a Patreon page for a while now as well, in which he posts stuff that sounds like would go up on a Youtube channel usually. I think he's grabbing at anything to bring money in the last 6 months or so. That's part of the reason this felt extra sour to me when Burton replied to the Gofundme.
It's weird having a favourite band where you don't trust or even know if you like any of the members


----------



## Lax (Sep 17, 2020)

the "I'm not part of this scam" part sounds so off...
I mean, the singer can think they should release the 2017 raw recording as it is or whatever, but knowing that he earns money each time a fear factory song is aired or sold, it makes no sense shooting bullets !
Especially since, if I understand well, he is still a FF member, as opposite to the ex drummer and bassist


----------



## neurosis (Sep 17, 2020)

From the interview with Dino I just listened to on Triple M Rock the album was recorded but he wanted to record real drums. After doing that he realized he needs to track new guitars and thought he'd like to bring back the production crew he hired last time. It seems he ran out of money with the label and doesn't want to release the record as it is now. 

All of that makes sense to me. What's weird but not unusual with this band is that shit has somehow hit the fan. In the interview Dino says Burton can't be the one posting to Social Media, that it's out of character and he doesn't have any bad feelings. 

What is clear is that this is Dino finishing the record at this point. None of the other classic members are involved. He said he'd like to go out and tour but it's obviously not clear with whom at this point. The interviewer didn't push him on that issue.

I really don't get why we should care about any of this. If there is a record and it's good I'll get it. If there is no record I can't get it and if the record is bad I won't get it. That's all that matters in the end. 

I also have no interest in seeing them live. I saw them as a teenager and I treasure that memory in a fragile jar of adolescent momentum.


----------



## eaeolian (Sep 17, 2020)

Ralyks said:


> Don’t feed the troll, folks.



Half of thousands and thousands (millions?) of posts here are feeding the troll. 

I've never understood people getting bent over Kickstarter, Go Fund Me, etc. - if you believe you're going to get a product, donate. If you don't, don't.


----------



## Dwellingers (Sep 17, 2020)

leechmasterargentina said:


> As regards to Dino recording the bass parts, that happened in their debut album, 'Soul Of A New Machine'. I'm not going to whine about because me and my former band did the same when we finally understood the bassist was going to ruin the record if we let him in the studio. I recorded the bass as well


Also Demanufacture.


----------



## eaeolian (Sep 17, 2020)

It's not actually like the bassist is important in FF anyway.


----------



## nikt (Sep 17, 2020)




----------



## fantom (Sep 17, 2020)

This is one of those situations where I'm totally indifferent. On one hand, I love Demanufacture and Mechanize. But they need to get there shit together if they want my support again. This so far isn't anywhere near as bad as Wintersun, so let's see how fast the situation escalates...



eggy in a bready said:


> true. i had assumed he was already doing all of that. surely he can't be coasting solely off of FF money



So according to quick Googling, his net worth is estimated in 7-8 figures. Considering Korn has about the same fan base and popularity (and sits at 9 figures net worth), Dino should likely be completely fine coasting on FF income for the rest of his life. Considering he says he is in debt, I think it just shows other problems that getting a job won't fix.



Bogner said:


> $10K raised so far? What is the amount needed? Where is the money going? If it is to more than one entity, who are the entities? What is the breakdown of the totals to said entities?
> 
> You seem ripe for some ocean front land I have for sale in central Arizona.
> 
> "Squander all that"? He has done an amazing job of doing just that it would appear. What makes sense is going to work and paying your bills. It appears you disagree with that concept though...



Considering he just said he wants to re-record the guitars and get a live drummer, 10k might not be enough. But keep in mind they probably already got their advance from the label to record. If they did a crappy job, that's one thing, but I suspect they are being perfectionist artists who couldn't have a label pay for an acceptable product so want to do more... Oh maybe it is Jari again. Did he start doing lessons for aspiring artists?

Also, if I remember, Gene Hoglan said he would have recorded on Genexus for free had they asked him... But they probably already burned that bridge.


----------



## Ralyks (Sep 17, 2020)

fantom said:


> Considering Korn has about the same fan base and popularity



Fan base? Maybe. Popularity? No way. Korn albums debut in the top ten and they play much larger venues and headline festivals. Only times I've seen Fear Factory at anything larger than a club, they were like 3rd or 4th from the top of the bill, and Obsolete is the only album to even go Gold.

Also, poor Gene. He seems like one of the nicest dudes in metal and gets screwed over regularly.


----------



## Athor (Sep 17, 2020)

Can't think of a band with more drama happening than FF. God damn! 

Wish they would just stick to the Archetype lineup, unpopular opinion but i think its the best they ever did.


----------



## eggy in a bready (Sep 17, 2020)

fantom said:


> So according to quick Googling, his net worth is estimated in 7-8 figures. Considering Korn has about the same fan base and popularity (and sits at 9 figures net worth), Dino should likely be completely fine coasting on FF income for the rest of his life. Considering he says he is in debt, I think it just shows other problems that getting a job won't fix.


where are you getting this info? all i see are sketchy websites saying some extremely dubious things.

and there's no way in hell dino is worth 8 figures


----------



## MASS DEFECT (Sep 17, 2020)

Athor said:


> Can't think of a band with more drama happening than FF. God damn!
> 
> Wish they would just stick to the Archetype lineup, unpopular opinion but i think its the best they ever did.



Yeah. I do dig Archetype. It had a consistent flow of songs, blast beats, and a rawer production. Transgression could have been better but by that time Wolbers was running out of riffs to ape at brought out his own style...which is not better than Dino, ultimately.

I just hope Dino leaves all the FF drama and just do a Divine Heresy with a better vocalist/lyricist and without the singing.


----------



## MASS DEFECT (Sep 17, 2020)

*double post*


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 17, 2020)

Athor said:


> Can't think of a band with more drama happening than FF. God damn!
> 
> Wish they would just stick to the Archetype lineup, unpopular opinion but i think its the best they ever did.


The Archetype lineup was a drama timebomb waiting to happen as well, apparently. There was a huge mess happening with their manager.

Also as Mass Defect said above; Archetype was a fluke. Transgression was okay, and Arkaea was worse.


----------



## KnightBrolaire (Sep 17, 2020)

eggy in a bready said:


> where are you getting this info? all i see are sketchy websites saying some extremely dubious things.
> 
> and there's no way in hell dino is worth 8 figures


I was seeing numbers from 100k all the way up to 144 million lmao. Pretty sure if dino had that kind of money he would have paid off his lawsuit costs and paid for the record


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Sep 18, 2020)

Net worth is not the amount of liquid money you have. It's everything of monetary value minus liabilities. So someone could have stake in something worth a ton of money, but not be able to turn that into cash at any moment and thus are "money poor".

But yeah, those online celebrity net worth sites are extremely dubious at best.


----------



## Zer01 (Sep 18, 2020)

Dwellingers said:


> Also Demanufacture.


FF has had one person play both guitar and bass on every album except two, Obsolete and Digimortal.


----------



## MASS DEFECT (Sep 18, 2020)

Post Archetype lineup, their best was Mechanize. Gene Hoglan easily beats Herrera imo.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 18, 2020)

MASS DEFECT said:


> Post Archetype lineup, their best was Mechanize. Gene Hoglan easily beats Herrera imo.



It really sucks their relationship fell through. Dude was perfect for FF.


----------



## leechmasterargentina (Sep 18, 2020)

Dwellingers said:


> Also Demanufacture.



Are you sure? COW is credited as the "Total Harmonic Distortion" for that record.


----------



## sonoftheoldnorth (Sep 18, 2020)

Yeah Dino played the bass. He joined mid record


leechmasterargentina said:


> Are you sure? COW is credited as the "Total Harmonic Distortion" for that record.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demanufacture_(album)


----------



## sonoftheoldnorth (Sep 19, 2020)

The metalsucks interview is out.

Reading between the lines, seems like Dino may have bought 'Seabell' out of the rights, then doing a fund me thing to recoup his money and maybe that's why Burt is pissed off ha. He had to file for bankruptcy, I dunno how all that works, but maybe he didn't even see any of the money? That's just my uninformed speculation though.

Regardless, it's in Dino's rightful hands over COW and he says he will work and be fair with Burt, extending his hand numerous times. I'd do the same if I was Dino.


----------



## GraemeH (Sep 19, 2020)

Yeah from memory of various tidbits that came out Burton went bankrupt and the lawyer he owed money got the rights to Fear Factory as he was a creditor to him.
So presumably Dino bought the rights from the lawyer and is now the rightful owner, meaning Bell would get no royalties from the album even though he's on it. So it makes sense he would act that way. But Dino also went through a divorce and lost some endorsements because of the COW/Herrera dispute. So I'd not be remotely surprised if Dino is basically broke, too.

What a mess. If they hit the reset button and got the original four together and made Demanufacture 2.0 they'd probably get back to the bigger time instead of playing out Fear Factory: The Soap Opera.


----------



## Dwellingers (Sep 19, 2020)

GraemeH said:


> Yeah from memory of various tidbits that came out Burton went bankrupt and the lawyer he owed money got the rights to Fear Factory as he was a creditor to him.
> So presumably Dino bought the rights from the lawyer and is now the rightful owner, meaning Bell would get no royalties from the album even though he's on it. So it makes sense he would act that way. But Dino also went through a divorce and lost some endorsements because of the COW/Herrera dispute. So I'd not be remotely surprised if Dino is basically broke, too.
> 
> What a mess. If they hit the reset button and got the original four together and made Demanufacture 2.0 they'd probably get back to the bigger time instead of playing out Fear Factory: The Soap Opera.



If I recall correctly - Bell owned the Brand before and hence the FF "company" and Dino was "hired" after his return. Kinda crazy he is now the sole owner of the rights to the name. "Source - coffee with Ola".


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 20, 2020)

Unless what he's saying about Burt is true, then I'm guessing we're not getting a tour if this album releases. Dino sounds broke as fuck and Burt doesn't want anything to do with this.


----------



## MASS DEFECT (Sep 21, 2020)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Unless what he's saying about Burt is true, then I'm guessing we're not getting a tour if this album releases. Dino sounds broke as fuck and Burt doesn't want anything to do with this.



No loss there, really. He sounds hit or miss live. Even with the help of a vocal processor.


----------



## Quiet Coil (Sep 21, 2020)

MASS DEFECT said:


> No loss there, really. He sounds hit or miss live. Even with the help of a vocal processor.



Sad but true. While BCB’s vocals on early FF albums weren’t nearly as influential as Dino’s guitar, I daresay they’re just as iconic. But live? Whole different story...


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 21, 2020)

MASS DEFECT said:


> No loss there, really. He sounds hit or miss live. Even with the help of a vocal processor.


Yeah, it's been really eh, but around The Industrialist his voice got *really* shot to the point where it looked almost painful when they toured for Genexus. 

If they end up splitting, I really hope that's the end of FF. As important as Dino is, Burt's vocals were high up there as well.


----------



## eggy in a bready (Sep 22, 2020)

lol what the hell is this


----------



## Mprinsje (Sep 22, 2020)

eggy in a bready said:


> lol what the hell is this



Classy


----------



## Lax (Sep 22, 2020)

wow that's not the kind of bitch slap you can make without proofs


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Sep 22, 2020)

eggy in a bready said:


> lol what the hell is this



I rate this three Musks out of five.


----------



## soul_lip_mike (Sep 22, 2020)

So which one is the pedo?


----------



## ArtDecade (Sep 22, 2020)

Fear Factory? The band from the Mortal Kombat soundtrack? Glad to know they are still around. Hopefully, they can get some more soundtrack work soon.


----------



## Werecow (Sep 22, 2020)

eggy in a bready said:


> lol what the hell is this



Another example why i don't think i like anyone in the band. I don't know anything about Raymond Herrera as he seems to stay off the grid, so i cling to hope he's a decent person at least.


----------



## Wildebeest (Sep 22, 2020)

ArtDecade said:


> Fear Factory? The band from the Mortal Kombat soundtrack? Glad to know they are still around. Hopefully, they can get some more soundtrack work soon.


No I am sorry this is a thread about the Donkey Kong Country 1 song, Fear Factory.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 22, 2020)

j


Werecow said:


> Another example why i don't think i like anyone in the band. I don't know anything about Raymond Herrera as he seems to stay off the grid, so i cling to hope he's a decent person at least.



Pretty much. COW is far from a saint.  Probably the most vindictive and bitter of the bunch. Also yeah, Raymond seems to have moved away from the music business and he doing his own ventures and whatnot.


----------



## Kaura (Sep 22, 2020)

Wildebeest said:


> No I am sorry this is a thread about the Donkey Kong Country 1 song, Fear Factory.



I remember downloading FF songs from Limewire when I was like 12yo and was so confused when one of the songs I downloaded was the Fear Factory from DKC soundtrack.


----------



## Seabeast2000 (Sep 22, 2020)

I demand at least 2 signature hot sauce brands.


----------



## eggy in a bready (Sep 22, 2020)

soul_lip_mike said:


> So which one is the pedo?


putting my money on bell


----------



## MetalDaze (Sep 22, 2020)




----------



## Ralyks (Sep 22, 2020)

Dino seems more like the pedo type, and just had a divorce. Burt DEFINITELY Seems like he can be bipolar.


----------



## ZXIIIT (Sep 22, 2020)

ArtDecade said:


> Fear Factory? The band from the Mortal Kombat soundtrack? Glad to know they are still around. Hopefully, they can get some more soundtrack work soon.



Ray's production company really pushed FF into a lot of movies, games and wrestling, which Ray stills does full time after leaving FF, might be a reason why FF hasn't really seen any soundtrack use since Mr. Brooks.



Referred to as "Fear Factor"


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 22, 2020)

ZXIIIT said:


> Ray's production company really pushed FF into a lot of movies, games and wrestling, which Ray stills does full time after leaving FF, might be a reason why FF hasn't really seen any soundtrack use since Mr. Brooks.



Huh, I don't know how I never made the connection. Recently found out Ray did marketing stuff outside of FF AND also noticed they were on a lot of soundtracks/licensed content... Dunno why I never made the connection.


----------



## Rick (Sep 23, 2020)

Ralyks said:


> Dino seems more like the pedo type, and just had a divorce. Burt DEFINITELY Seems like he can be bipolar.



Based on what proof?


----------



## Hellbound (Sep 24, 2020)

I may be kind of trolling here but IMO “Archetype” was their best when Dino was out of the picture.

however “Mechanize” is one brutal kick arse album that came out afterwards with Dino.

I have not liked anything from them ever since “Mechanize”.


----------



## sonoftheoldnorth (Sep 24, 2020)

When you see it


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Sep 24, 2020)

sonoftheoldnorth said:


> When you see it



The look on his face makes it.


----------



## Aso (Sep 24, 2020)

sonoftheoldnorth said:


> When you see it



That photo must be from before COW went vegan.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 24, 2020)

Waiting for COW to come up with some crazy ass conspiracy for that.


----------



## Werecow (Sep 24, 2020)

MaxOfMetal said:


> The look on his face makes it.



Can't decide if it looks more like he's having a shit, or planning to kill the photographer. Maybe both?


----------



## MASS DEFECT (Sep 24, 2020)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Waiting for COW to come up with some crazy ass conspiracy for that.


lol COW is a conspiracy nut on Instagram. Like one level below Sandra Araya.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 24, 2020)

MASS DEFECT said:


> lol COW is a conspiracy nut on Instagram. Like one level below Sandra Araya.


Just your daily reminder that all of Fear Factory is a shit show, apparently, and that COW isn't free from all this.


----------



## Rick (Sep 24, 2020)

COW is bitter that he lost rights to the name and he's acting like a little kid, hilarious how just a couple of years ago he was basically begging to play with them again and now it's "get a job."

Fuck you, asshole.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 24, 2020)

Rick said:


> COW is bitter that he lost rights to the name and he's acting like a little kid, hilarious how just a couple of years ago he was basically begging to play with them again and now it's "get a job."
> 
> Fuck you, asshole.



I was kinda rooting with him to join Machine Head before I knew how much of a fuckup he was.

Then after I realized all that, I think it's hilarious how a comparative nobody joined Machine Head over the hey-day bassist of Fear Factory.

But yeah, COW's Totally Not Mad™ about the situation.


----------



## MASS DEFECT (Sep 25, 2020)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I was kinda rooting with him to join Machine Head before I knew how much of a fuckup he was.
> 
> Then after I realized all that, I think it's hilarious how a comparative nobody joined Machine Head over the hey-day bassist of Fear Factory.
> 
> But yeah, COW's Totally Not Mad™ about the situation.



Pfff. Flynn and he would definitely disagree about all the new lyrics and political posts. lol they would be killing each other.


----------



## Ralyks (Sep 25, 2020)

COW is in Vio-lence now anyway.


----------



## manu80 (Sep 28, 2020)

there you go ! this band has been a joke for too long...
https://blabbermouth.net/news/burto...with-someone-whom-i-do-not-trust-nor-respect/

Now Dino should justify his crowdfunding stuff...


----------



## Zer01 (Sep 28, 2020)

manu80 said:


> Now Dino should justify his crowdfunding stuff...



He did. It’s for finishing the album. Burt’s part is already done.


----------



## DeathbyDesign (Sep 28, 2020)

manu80 said:


> there you go ! this band has been a joke for too long...
> https://blabbermouth.net/news/burto...with-someone-whom-i-do-not-trust-nor-respect/
> 
> Now Dino should justify his crowdfunding stuff...


I'm not surprised at all with this decision. I am more surprised this didn't happen back in 2018. He probably cashed in the last of his chips for FF when they did that Demanufacture tour a few years back and just wants to move on now, especially after this lawsuit stuff. His new stuff with AOTW does sound pretty good though.


----------



## manu80 (Sep 29, 2020)

Zer01 said:


> He did. It’s for finishing the album. Burt’s part is already done.


i meant , should he release the album with Bell's vocals or re record it with a new singer with the crowdfunding money now that he's gone ? basically FF is just Dino now....


----------



## Vyn (Sep 29, 2020)

Rob Flynn had Dino on his podcast about this, worth a listen. According to Dino you can just google each of the band members names to find the legal matters in particular to see what's gone on.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Sep 29, 2020)

A lot of bullshit to deal with from a second or third rate Meshuggah. Pretty fucking goofy shit.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Sep 29, 2020)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Dino says he's got an interview with Metalsucks coming out that'll explain a lot of stuff.
> 
> It's gonna be... interesting.


Full Gene and Paul mode will be activated, that's for sure.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Sep 29, 2020)

sonoftheoldnorth said:


> The metalsucks interview is out.
> 
> Reading between the lines, seems like Dino may have bought 'Seabell' out of the rights, then doing a fund me thing to recoup his money and maybe that's why Burt is pissed off ha. He had to file for bankruptcy, I dunno how all that works, but maybe he didn't even see any of the money? That's just my uninformed speculation though.
> 
> Regardless, it's in Dino's rightful hands over COW and he says he will work and be fair with Burt, extending his hand numerous times. I'd do the same if I was Dino.


Dino's "rightful" hands, even though Dino seems like a toxic person who is difficult to work with or be with. Dino doesn't seem like a decent dude at all.


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## Vyn (Sep 29, 2020)

So I did my googling. This particular court document is the important one:

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg...k-04892/pdf/USCOURTS-pamb-4_11-bk-04892-0.pdf

Lot of technical legal terms however the jist of it is when Bell filed for bankruptcy, he knowingly DIDN'T disclose some particulars and got owned for it.

I haven't found the subsequent documents to confirm this yet, however as far as I've been able to verify with a couple of sources, Bell's FF portion ended up with lawyers/courts as payment for legal fees and Dino then bought that off of the court/lawyers. Basically Burton fucked up and screwed himself out of his FF share, Dino legitimately bought it after that.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Sep 29, 2020)

That he is now trying to get the fans to pay for. Lol.


----------



## Vyn (Sep 29, 2020)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> That he is now trying to get the fans to pay for. Lol.



You mean succeeding in getting the fans to pay for? 




There are enough fans out there that aren't well-versed in the drama or just don't care and want to see another record it seems.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Sep 29, 2020)

... if it actually comes out.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 29, 2020)

I think the album's gonna come out.

I just don't think Dino or FF are coming out of this with a great reputation.


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## Vyn (Sep 29, 2020)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I think the album's gonna come out.
> 
> I just don't think Dino or FF are coming out of this with a great reputation.



I reckon they will be fine - considering how much mud is already on the wall, this is just a drop in the ocean. The majority of people that would have been turned off by this have already given up on FF.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Sep 29, 2020)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I think the album's gonna come out.
> 
> I just don't think Dino or FF are coming out of this with a great reputation.


Nope, not really. It'll be a tribute band at best, with leftover scrap ex band members. They can call it The League of Ex Band Members.


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## Ralyks (Sep 29, 2020)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I think the album's gonna come out.
> 
> I just don't think Dino or FF are coming out of this with a great reputation.



This. And even worse, I think the album... COULD be pretty good? I mean, I'm more of a Demanufacture guy, but Genexus was pretty cool for what it was.


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## neurosis (Oct 3, 2020)

I believe the album will come out since it was finished and is just being "touched up". Apparently the vocals are good so there's no need to rerecord those. I guess drums was the culprit and Dino just wanted a better production so made adjustments around that.

If he owns the name I guess he'll release the record and get a band together as a touring act. 

FF has been around in different configurations with and without him for a long time. They have had their ups and downs so if the fanbase hasn't dwindled and people didn't care about the lineup it might just work. He might just continue doing "his thing". The only difference this time is Burton is out of the touring picture. After 30 years of being such a characteristic part of the sound–it's always hard to lose a vocalist–that's the one question mark for me. people might be put off if the difference between the voices is noticeable or the stage persona doesn't quite gel. 

The record is not a challenge. In my opinion it';s the touring situation that is going to take a lot of work and any posterior recordings will have to be strategized really well to keep the fanbase on while pulling in new listeners. 

Dino and whatever team is behind him have a lot of work to do to push this ship in the right direction.

As a brand the name is fully established, it's just a matter of whether it will continue and potentially see new growth or sort of subsist without major notoriety.


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## neurosis (Oct 3, 2020)

Vyn said:


> So I did my googling. This particular court document is the important one:
> 
> https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg...k-04892/pdf/USCOURTS-pamb-4_11-bk-04892-0.pdf



When I listened to the Flynn podcast I felt the FF brand was now under Dino's ownership. Must have gotten it wrong. Seems it's now shared by Christian, Dino and Raymond?


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## Zer01 (Oct 3, 2020)

Dean Albert Maury Cazares is by far the most interesting thing I’ve learned about all this


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Oct 3, 2020)

neurosis said:


> When I listened to the Flynn podcast I felt the FF brand was now under Dino's ownership. Must have gotten it wrong. Seems it's now shared by Christian, Dino and Raymond?



This is old. Even COW admitted he no longer owns the name.


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## neurosis (Oct 5, 2020)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> This is old. Even COW admitted he no longer owns the name.



I didn't know. So is it just Dino and Raymond now? Or only Dino at this point?


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## PatientMental76 (Oct 5, 2020)

neurosis said:


> I didn't know. So is it just Dino and Raymond now? Or only Dino at this point?



Ray has been gone since Transgression & good riddance, Dino is sole owner of the trademark


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Oct 5, 2020)

FWIW, the fundraiser reached it's goal, plus change (~$25,300 as I type this). 

Fuck it, guess we'll see if this'll make or break Fear Factory (and/or Dino). Following him on Twitter and he seems like pretty bent on finding a new singer.


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## neurosis (Oct 5, 2020)

PatientMental76 said:


> Ray has been gone since Transgression & good riddance, Dino is sole owner of the trademark



I knew Raymond wasn't in the band but I was unaware that Dino was the sole owner of the trademark. Thanks for clarifying!


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Oct 5, 2020)

neurosis said:


> I knew Raymond wasn't in the band but I was unaware that Dino was the sole owner of the trademark. Thanks for clarifying!


This all happened recently. All 4 members owned the rights (or just Dino and Burt), but apparently Burt fucked up (something related to a bankruptcy) and COW and Ray were able to claim the rights back, and stopped Dino and Burt from using the name due to the lawsuit. I don't know the full details on hand ATM, but just recently Dino gained the rights to the FF name (COW claims he and Ray gave it to him, but COW's a petty bitch). And according to him, Burt *cannot* own any rights to FF, so Dino bought his share in the name as well, therefore making him sole owner.


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## neurosis (Oct 5, 2020)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> This all happened recently. All 4 members owned the rights (or just Dino and Burt), but apparently Burt fucked up (something related to a bankruptcy) and COW and Ray were able to claim the rights back, and stopped Dino and Burt from using the name due to the lawsuit. I don't know the full details on hand ATM, but just recently Dino gained the rights to the FF name (COW claims he and Ray gave it to him, but COW's a petty bitch). And according to him, Burt *cannot* own any rights to FF, so Dino bought his share in the name as well, therefore making him sole owner.



Thanks! The whole timeline, despite tuning into some of the recent interviews and posts wasn't clear to me. 

Now that he owns the name, theoretically things should be easier to manage. Looking forward to the record.


----------



## Bogner (Oct 5, 2020)

manu80 said:


> i meant , should he release the album with Bell's vocals or re record it with a new singer with the crowdfunding money now that he's gone ? basically FF is just Dino now....


Sounds like Sharon is managing the band now...


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## PatientMental76 (Oct 6, 2020)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> This all happened recently. All 4 members owned the rights (or just Dino and Burt), but apparently Burt fucked up (something related to a bankruptcy) and COW and Ray were able to claim the rights back, and stopped Dino and Burt from using the name due to the lawsuit. I don't know the full details on hand ATM, but just recently Dino gained the rights to the FF name (COW claims he and Ray gave it to him, but COW's a petty bitch). And according to him, Burt *cannot* own any rights to FF, so Dino bought his share in the name as well, therefore making him sole owner.



COW is a little bitch constantly running his mouth! He & Ray failed to realize they were not needed, didnt care about the fans, burned bridges & should have manned up & moved on but they have nothing worthwhile going on & they are broke which is why the lawsuits came! Dino said we can look up what transpired in the trademark dispute with Burt but i havent been able to find it! Would be a interesting read


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## p0ke (Oct 6, 2020)

PatientMental76 said:


> Dino said we can look up what transpired in the trademark dispute with Burt but i havent been able to find it! Would be a interesting read



Is this it, perhaps?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5aljzql5fmy3tp3/Fear Factory Lawsuit 2019.pdf?dl=0


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## fps (Oct 6, 2020)

If this album is Regenerate, they’ve surely torched the best name for the first record with a new singer.


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## PatientMental76 (Oct 6, 2020)

p0ke said:


> Is this it, perhaps?
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/5aljzql5fmy3tp3/Fear Factory Lawsuit 2019.pdf?dl=0



No thats the bankruptcy report, the one Dino is talking about is the trademark buyout, i cant find it anywhere


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## Lax (Oct 7, 2020)

Due to the line up changes and the fact that burton's voice doesn't sound special to me, FF has always been kind of dino's band to me


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## gunch (Oct 8, 2020)

Yeah just find any dude that can hardcore shout and sing decent


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## Cyanide_Anima (Oct 9, 2020)

As much as I love Seabell in FF It'd be great to hear a vocalist who doesn't require a shitton of editing and autotune on the cleans to not sound like me making off tune groans whilst dropping a dook a few hours after eating a XXL burrito.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Oct 11, 2020)

Not sure where to put this but it looks like he's got a little thing coming.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Oct 11, 2020)

What is that?


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## Vyn (Oct 11, 2020)

I'm going to guess it's a Fortin Pedal as him and Mike have a good relationship.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Oct 11, 2020)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> What is that?





Vyn said:


> I'm going to guess it's a Fortin Pedal as him and Mike have a good relationship.



He just said it's an OD pedal. Has Vol, Bass, Treble, and OD controls. No clue whos making it yet.


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## manu80 (Oct 12, 2020)

300$ nano transgression distortion pedal dino sig


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## PatientMental76 (Oct 12, 2020)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> This all happened recently. All 4 members owned the rights (or just Dino and Burt), but apparently Burt fucked up (something related to a bankruptcy) and COW and Ray were able to claim the rights back, and stopped Dino and Burt from using the name due to the lawsuit. I don't know the full details on hand ATM, but just recently Dino gained the rights to the FF name (COW claims he and Ray gave it to him, but COW's a petty bitch). And according to him, Burt *cannot* own any rights to FF, so Dino bought his share in the name as well, therefore making him sole owner.



Received this reply from Dino yesterday explaining how he got the trademark


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## Werecow (Oct 12, 2020)

Vyn said:


> I'm going to guess it's a Fortin Pedal as him and Mike have a good relationship.



If it is, and Dino is searching for song names to name the pedal, he could call it Replica


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## sonoftheoldnorth (Oct 12, 2020)

PatientMental76 said:


> Received this reply from Dino yesterday explaining how he got the trademark




"I am a tool" -Burton Seabell


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## Vyn (Oct 12, 2020)

PatientMental76 said:


> Received this reply from Dino yesterday explaining how he got the trademark



Basically, Burton fucked up.


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## duffbeer33 (Oct 12, 2020)

Well, regardless of the singer, I'll probably check out the album. Burton's voice is pretty iconic, but I've generally liked everything Dino has done. From Divine Heresy to Brujeria, hell even that Roadrunner United song with Matt Heafy was good. Where I'll be intrigued is to see if he finds a dude that can mimic Burt's vocals (I'm sure there's someone who can do it) or if he goes to a more brutal style screamer.


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## Zer01 (Oct 12, 2020)

Burt will be on the album.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Oct 20, 2020)

Interesting bump 

https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/f...featuring-real-drums-instead-of-drum-machine/

Not only does it seem like The Industrialist will be available for streaming soon, but they're going to release a version with real drums.


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## PatientMental76 (Oct 20, 2020)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Interesting bump
> 
> https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/f...featuring-real-drums-instead-of-drum-machine/
> 
> Not only does it seem like The Industrialist will be available for streaming soon, but they're going to release a version with real drums.



I honestly didnt mind the drum machine, i think people that bitched were not musicians & jumped on the bandwagon! FF drums were time aligned anyway as is with most bands so there was no difference! Had they not been honest about it people wouldnt have complained!


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## ZXIIIT (Oct 20, 2020)

PatientMental76 said:


> I honestly didnt mind the drum machine, i think people that bitched were not musicians & jumped on the bandwagon! FF drums were time aligned anyway as is with most bands so there was no difference! Had they not been honest about it people wouldnt have complained!



I thought it was great and sounded like another chapter in the Fear Factory discography.

The general response to the drums on that album was either _"the drums sound great_" or _"I hate the drums because they are programmed_" lol.


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## Vyn (Oct 20, 2020)

It was amusing at the time watching people lose their minds over an INDUSTRIAL band using programmed drums. Whole point of the genre is to be as mechanical as fuck.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Oct 20, 2020)

IIRC a lot of the backlash was also because they had fucking GENE HOGLAN and didn't use him. I remember a lot of people saying "How are you gonna have Gene and not have him play drums" But yeah, it was later revealed the guys didn't want to re-use him again because $$$.

EDIT: Also I'm of two minds. I agree, they're an industrial metal band who's known for their extremely mechanical, precise sound. A lot of industrial metal bands are. But at the same time, Gene Hoglan had a point where FF is one of the few industrial bands known for their drummer. They're not like other industrial metal bands where the drums are... there.


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## Quiet Coil (Oct 20, 2020)

Beat me to it. They basically did have a drum machine with Hoglan on Mechanize (and a more imaginative one at that). Gene seemed like the absolute perfect fit to bring them to the next level, but who knows.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Oct 20, 2020)

Quiet Coil said:


> Beat me to it. They basically did have a drum machine with Hoglan on Mechanize (and a more imaginative one at that). Gene seemed like the absolute perfect fit to bring them to the next level, but who knows.



I think he would have made things more aggressive. Besides Recharger, a lot of Industrialist is more (comparatively) mid-paced than Mechanize. But yeah, it seemed like Gene warranted a big bill and Dino/Burt were like... nah.  Also reading interviews after the fact, Gene saw it as more of a paycheck and didn't really care, but I'm wondering how much of that is bitterness.


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## Werecow (Oct 20, 2020)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I think he would have made things more aggressive. Besides Recharger, a lot of Industrialist is more (comparatively) mid-paced than Mechanize. But yeah, it seemed like Gene warranted a big bill and Dino/Burt were like... nah.  Also reading interviews after the fact, Gene saw it as more of a paycheck and didn't really care, but I'm wondering how much of that is bitterness.



It seems like the core ethos of Fear Factory has been $$$ and bitterness for many years now  And the crazy thing is it seems to come from everywhere in the band. So many shitty decisions and what looks like backstabbing over the years.

I saw interviews about them considering a drum machine live a while back. I bet that was just for more $$$ as well.


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## PatientMental76 (Oct 22, 2020)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I think he would have made things more aggressive. Besides Recharger, a lot of Industrialist is more (comparatively) mid-paced than Mechanize. But yeah, it seemed like Gene warranted a big bill and Dino/Burt were like... nah.  Also reading interviews after the fact, Gene saw it as more of a paycheck and didn't really care, but I'm wondering how much of that is bitterness.



Thats how Gene is hes not committed to any band, he always been a gun for hire & the smack he talked after FF made him look bad in my opinion! Great drummer but shitty attitude & ego!


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## ArtDecade (Oct 22, 2020)

PatientMental76 said:


> Thats how Gene is hes not committed to any band, he always been a gun for hire & the smack he talked after FF made him look bad in my opinion! Great drummer but shitty attitude & ego!



Didn't he find out the album was completed without his input on something like Blabbermouth or MetalSucks? If that is the case, I think he has a reason to be a little tiffed with them.


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## PatientMental76 (Oct 22, 2020)

ArtDecade said:


> Didn't he find out the album was completed without his input on something like Blabbermouth or MetalSucks? If that is the case, I think he has a reason to be a little tiffed with them.



Yeah but he claims he had no interest in FF from the beginning & never listened to them! Its obvious he wanted more pay than FF was willing to give a guy whos just there for the money! Would be hard to be in a band with a guy like that so i dont blame them for not even bothering to tell him!


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## RevDrucifer (Oct 23, 2020)

PatientMental76 said:


> Thats how Gene is hes not committed to any band, he always been a gun for hire & the smack he talked after FF made him look bad in my opinion! Great drummer but shitty attitude & ego!



To be fair, Gene was really passionate about Strapping Young Lad and Devin’s said it repeatedly on his recent podcasts. All those guys were, which is why it was hard for Devin to put the band to rest. 

But it’s entirely possible as a result of that, seeing how things can turn south despite the amount of success, that Gene wanted to make sure he was going to get paid for his work instead of hanging on in some limbo, waiting to find out if he was going to be utilized or not. 

He’s earned his status by being a badass motherfucker who can blast out flawless 1st takes (pun intended). Unfortunately for Gene, Dino knows he can hire some dude who can play great that hasn’t made a name for themself yet for a much cheaper price. It’s not like it takes a killer drummer to write drum parts for FF, you can practically eliminate all the drum fills and just focus on kick/snare/cymbals and you’re good to go. So unless Dino wanted to incorporate Gene’s abilities as a writer, he’s a bit overkill.


----------



## Schmeer (Oct 23, 2020)

PatientMental76 said:


> Yeah but he claims he had no interest in FF from the beginning & never listened to them! Its obvious he wanted more pay than FF was willing to give a guy whos just there for the money! Would be hard to be in a band with a guy like that so i dont blame them for not even bothering to tell him!



And? 
I'm pretty sure the guys from FF approached Gene to play on their album, not the other way around. Why should him not being a fan of FF be an issue at all? At least he's honest about it 

AFAIK Gene was never considered a permanent member of FF in the first place, so I can't see anything wrong with him demanding to get paid for his services. It's kind of what session guys do, you know?
If Dino and Burt thought that was too expensive, they should have acted like professionals and told him 

If I had turned down other opportunities and cleared out my schedule to be available, only to find out through the media that my services weren't needed, I would have used way harsher words than what Gene did


----------



## ArtDecade (Oct 23, 2020)

Gene is a towering musician in metal. If someone has the chance and capacity (money/fame/etc) to add him to your band, he will increase the musicianship and fanfare of the music. Why would FF even be on his map? The drums are mostly synthetic, so its not like he was checking them out. They had a chance to bring in a top pro, but didn't want to pay the price. That's fine, but they should have been more open with him about how they were planning on moving forward.


----------



## Ataraxia2320 (Oct 25, 2020)

Fear factory's drums may be simple, but the drums that gene did managed to add a whole layer of memorability on top. 

It's one of the reasons why it's my second favourite FF album. 

Archetype - Mechanize - Obsolete - Demanufacture.


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## PatientMental76 (Oct 25, 2020)

Ataraxia2320 said:


> Fear factory's drums may be simple, but the drums that gene did managed to add a whole layer of memorability on top.
> 
> It's one of the reasons why it's my second favourite FF album.
> 
> Archetype - Mechanize - Obsolete - Demanufacture.



No offense but had you not known it was Gene on that album i dont think you would have said that! The drums are really no different than any other post Ray FF album besides having Gene's name attached!


----------



## Quiet Coil (Oct 25, 2020)

PatientMental76 said:


> The drums are really no different than any other post Ray FF album besides having Gene's name attached!



This makes me question your objectivity. I’m not a Gene fanboy, but his drumming _made_ Mechanize.


----------



## PatientMental76 (Oct 25, 2020)

Quiet Coil said:


> This makes me question your objectivity. I’m not a Gene fanboy, but his drumming _made_ Mechanize.



What im saying is had people not known it was Gene or if it wasnt him all together but with the same drums nobody would be saying that! Only because its "Gene Hoglan" the drums automatically are phenomenal & "make the album"! I believe i read somewhere where they time aligned his drums anyway!


----------



## Quiet Coil (Oct 25, 2020)

PatientMental76 said:


> What im saying is had people not known it was Gene or if it wasnt him all together but with the same drums nobody would be saying that! Only because its "Gene Hoglan" the drums automatically are phenomenal & "make the album"! I believe i read somewhere where they time aligned his drums anyway!



Not true - I had no idea who Gene was before Mechanize, and had to look into it because the drums were so intense!


----------



## PatientMental76 (Oct 25, 2020)

Quiet Coil said:


> Not true - I had no idea who Gene was before Mechanize, and had to look into it because the drums were so intense!



But they cut his drums up & time aligned them, you see what im saying here?


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## Quiet Coil (Oct 25, 2020)

PatientMental76 said:


> But they cut his drums up & time aligned them, you see what im saying here?


I hear you, but I honestly don’t know who to believe anymore. Either way, we’ll always have the classics.


----------



## MetalDaze (Oct 25, 2020)

Quiet Coil said:


> I hear you, but I honestly don’t know who to believe anymore. Either way, we’ll always have the classics.



Great. Now music has something in common with politics


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## Quiet Coil (Oct 25, 2020)

MetalDaze said:


> Great. Now music has something in common with politics


And Star Wars.


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## Ataraxia2320 (Oct 26, 2020)

PatientMental76 said:


> No offense but had you not known it was Gene on that album i dont think you would have said that! The drums are really no different than any other post Ray FF album besides having Gene's name attached!



I had no idea that gene was even attached to the album when I started listening to it. Just thought the drums were cool. 

Every drummer in the world gets quantised these days. It's not about how tight the playing is, its about the beats sounding fresh, while remaining simple and mechanical, i.e. the Fear Factory sound.


----------



## KnightBrolaire (Oct 26, 2020)

dino is getting a sig protone pedal lmao
I don't know how protone scores bigger artists given their rep lol


----------



## Vyn (Oct 26, 2020)

KnightBrolaire said:


> dino is getting a sig protone pedal lmao
> I don't know how protone scores bigger artists given their rep lol



He couldn't have chosen a worse company haha.

Amusingly, it looks like it's a precision drive clone without the gate


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## PatientMental76 (Oct 26, 2020)

KnightBrolaire said:


> dino is getting a sig protone pedal lmao
> I don't know how protone scores bigger artists given their rep lol



Doesnt matter the product as long as there is a decent size check involved


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Oct 26, 2020)

KnightBrolaire said:


> dino is getting a sig protone pedal lmao
> I don't know how protone scores bigger artists given their rep lol



Yep, when he teased the new pedal on his twitter (the blank box) I thought it was gonna be a JHS or something. Then I saw the graphic he teased a couple days later, which made me realize it's definitely gonna be a ProTone and I was like


----------



## KnightBrolaire (Oct 26, 2020)

Vyn said:


> He couldn't have chosen a worse company haha.
> 
> Amusingly, it looks like it's a precision drive clone without the gate


so just a tubescreamer clone lol


----------



## Vyn (Oct 26, 2020)

KnightBrolaire said:


> so just a tubescreamer clone lol



Ts9 clone with a variable high-pass filter.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Oct 26, 2020)

Vyn said:


> Ts9 clone with a variable high-pass filter.


Don't mind me while I slam the snooze button so hard it breaks.


----------



## Ataraxia2320 (Oct 26, 2020)

What's up with all the protone hate? I know nothing about them other than bulb had a pedal with them ages back.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Oct 26, 2020)

Ataraxia2320 said:


> What's up with all the protone hate? I know nothing about them other than bulb had a pedal with them ages back.



Terrible QC. Decals were shitty and would tear off over nothing. Apparently bad CS as well.


----------



## KnightBrolaire (Oct 26, 2020)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Terrible QC. Decals were shitty and would tear off over nothing. Apparently bad CS as well.


yeah not just cosmetic stuff either. Poorly wired and malfunctioning pedals, just shoddy building overall.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Oct 26, 2020)

KnightBrolaire said:


> yeah not just cosmetic stuff either. Poorly wired and malfunctioning pedals, just shoddy building overall.



Yeah that's what I meant. Really, really horrible gut shots.

https://twitter.com/DinoCazares/status/1320870258282909696?s=20

Also a slight snippet of a new song. Sounds like a continuation of Genexus.


----------



## Vyn (Oct 26, 2020)

At one point, Loomis, Merrow and Bulb all had signature pedals. Multiple examples of all 3 being of garbage quality.


----------



## Werecow (Oct 26, 2020)

I don't know what you guys are talking about... It clearly states on the Protone website "With his signature drive, Dino took advantage of Pro Tone’s rich history of designing the best overdrive and distortion pedals available today"


----------



## PatientMental76 (Oct 27, 2020)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> https://twitter.com/DinoCazares/status/1320870258282909696?s=20
> 
> Also a slight snippet of a new song. Sounds like a continuation of Genexus.



Thats a good thing


----------



## Athor (Oct 29, 2020)

MASS DEFECT said:


> Yeah. I do dig Archetype. It had a consistent flow of songs, blast beats, and a rawer production. Transgression could have been better but by that time Wolbers was running out of riffs to ape at brought out his own style...which is not better than Dino, ultimately.
> 
> I just hope Dino leaves all the FF drama and just do a Divine Heresy with a better vocalist/lyricist and without the singing.


Agreed!


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Nov 28, 2020)

Wasn't sure where to post it, nor wasn't sure if it's worth it's own thread, but Dino apparently confirmed a reissue of Mechanize and Industrialist, which also means those albums will finally be available on streaming services next year. Also will apparently be on vinyl and will have some unreleased songs. 
\
https://twitter.com/DinoCazares/status/1332580589484929026
https://twitter.com/DinoCazares/status/1332591862314541057?s=20


----------



## Ralyks (Dec 3, 2020)

I'm more excited that I saw Dino responded to someone on IG asking about a Soul of a New Machine vinyl reissue with "that's next year".


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 21, 2021)

So uhh
This happened
https://twitter.com/DinoCazares/status/1352395133497397248







Not sure where else to put it, but yeah.


----------



## Werecow (Jan 21, 2021)

I know where my head went when he said 3 enemies  but the sad thing is i'm actually not 100% sure he _didn't_ mean that.

Putting my Mythbusters hat on, surely that must have been fired from a long way away, otherwise it'd have penetrated the glass? Seems more like a random stray shot from somewhere.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 21, 2021)

Werecow said:


> I know where my head went when he said 3 enemies  but the sad thing is i'm actually not 100% sure he _didn't_ mean that.
> 
> Putting my Mythbusters hat on, surely that must have been fired from a long way away, otherwise it'd have penetrated the glass? Seems more like a random stray shot from somewhere.



He said there was a metal bar under the windshield that stopped the bullet.


----------



## Werecow (Jan 21, 2021)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> He said there was a metal bar under the windshield that stopped the bullet.


But don't bullets turn to mush when hitting things from close range? I thought it'd be completely splattered/flattened if it was shot into glass and a metal bar from any sort of close range. The bullet has retained its shape there, like it lost most of its speed/energy before hitting.

Edit - this is one after hitting a metal plate https://i.redd.it/q1jobfuilsvz.jpg


----------



## eggy in a bready (Jan 21, 2021)

Werecow said:


> I know where my head went when he said 3 enemies


diet, exercise, and punctuation AMIRITE?


----------



## Demiurge (Jan 21, 2021)

Oh come on- a real enemy shoots at your windshield _while you're in_ the fucking car.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Jan 21, 2021)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> So uhh
> This happened
> https://twitter.com/DinoCazares/status/1352395133497397248
> 
> ...



Looks like the stuff that gets fired down range and doesn't really hit anything. 

Also, it's in really poor taste if he's trying to blame past band members for this, at least publicly.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Jan 21, 2021)

That's what it seems to imply, at least in an open ended sort of way.


----------



## sonoftheoldnorth (Jan 22, 2021)

Old Wobblers, Seabell and.... Who's the third suspect?


----------



## mastapimp (Jan 22, 2021)

sonoftheoldnorth said:


> Old Wobblers, Seabell and.... Who's the third suspect?


Herrera or the ex-wife?


----------



## PatientMental76 (Jan 22, 2021)

mastapimp said:


> Herrera or the ex-wife?



Yeah, hes just jacking people tho


----------



## GraemeH (Jan 22, 2021)

If you ever feel useless, remember there's a gunman out there who couldn't hit Dino.


----------



## ArtDecade (Jan 22, 2021)

To be fair, after the wild ride that was 2020, maybe 2021 kicks off the Fear Factory shooting at each other. Nothing is shocking.


----------



## MetalDaze (Jan 22, 2021)

eggy in a bready said:


> diet, exercise, and punctuation AMIRITE?



is fat shaming now ok again? I keep forgetting to set my social warrior watch.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Jan 22, 2021)

MetalDaze said:


> is fat shaming now ok again? I keep forgetting to set my social warrior watch.


It's fine if it is a guy. Women are a no go.


----------



## eggy in a bready (Jan 22, 2021)

MetalDaze said:


> is fat shaming now ok again? I keep forgetting to set my social warrior watch.


it was a joke. anyways, dino makes a lot more money than i do. i can punch up every once in a while



Spaced Out Ace said:


> It's fine if it is a guy. Women are a no go.


flawless logic, bud


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Jan 22, 2021)

eggy in a bready said:


> it was a joke. anyways, dino makes a lot more money than i do. i can punch up every once in a while
> 
> 
> flawless logic, bud


Not my logic. It seems to be the acceptable thing based on how people online act.


----------



## Vyn (Jan 24, 2021)

Given some of the shit COW posts online these days, wouldn't be surprised if it did turn out to be him. Out of the three he seems the most unhinged.

In reality though, probably just a disgruntled fan that's pissed because they auditioned for Burton's role and were told to fuck off.


----------



## soul_lip_mike (Jan 24, 2021)

eggy in a bready said:


> it was a joke. anyways, dino makes a lot more money than i do. i can punch up every once in a while
> 
> 
> flawless logic, bud




What type of income do you think Dino and guys like him makes yearly these days?


----------



## eggy in a bready (Jan 24, 2021)

soul_lip_mike said:


> What type of income do you think Dino and guys like him makes yearly these days?





eggy in a bready said:


> a lot more money than i do.


----------



## KnightBrolaire (Jan 24, 2021)

Werecow said:


> But don't bullets turn to mush when hitting things from close range? I thought it'd be completely splattered/flattened if it was shot into glass and a metal bar from any sort of close range. The bullet has retained its shape there, like it lost most of its speed/energy before hitting.
> 
> Edit - this is one after hitting a metal plate https://i.redd.it/q1jobfuilsvz.jpg


the round isn't even slightly deformed which means someone prob shot up in the air or fired from a decent ways away. .45 cal is a slow ass round too.
I'd bet on it being an accidental/negligent discharge.


----------



## KnightBrolaire (Jan 24, 2021)

* puts on tinfoil hat* 
Hmmm what if Dino actually had a rock hit his windshield, and faked the bullet being lodged in his windshield for publicity/to throw shade on the other FF guys....
i'm joking. That would be batshit insane. hilarious, but insane.


----------



## Paul McAleer (Jan 25, 2021)

KnightBrolaire said:


> * puts on tinfoil hat*
> Hmmm what if Dino actually had a rock hit his windshield, and faked the bullet being lodged in his windshield for publicity/to throw shade on the other FF guys....
> i'm joking. That would be batshit insane. hilarious, but insane.


Honestly I had this same thought as well
I don’t know what to believe now


----------



## sonoftheoldnorth (Jan 25, 2021)

Guys, let's set up a go fund me for a new windscreen so he can get to the studio and finish the album! Come on guys, Dino needs you.


----------



## DeathbyDesign (Jan 25, 2021)

KnightBrolaire said:


> * puts on tinfoil hat*
> Hmmm what if Dino actually had a rock hit his windshield, and faked the bullet being lodged in his windshield for publicity/to throw shade on the other FF guys....
> i'm joking. That would be batshit insane. hilarious, but insane.


The sad part is I don't think it is too far from the realm of possibility with him at this point.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Apr 1, 2021)

New song coming on the 16th. 

https://twitter.com/DinoCazares/status/1377685788788330497


----------



## Paul McAleer (Apr 15, 2021)

new FF stuff


----------



## Demiurge (Apr 15, 2021)

"Every hour all day" is half the frequency that new songs get played on Liquid Metal, so that's a bad sign.


----------



## sonoftheoldnorth (Apr 16, 2021)




----------



## Demiurge (Apr 16, 2021)

Meh. Aside from something interesting a bit towards the end, the new song is blah. While there was allegedly crowd-funding to hire some professional help to polish it up, I think the least-charitable suspicions were true, that it was BS. The guitars manage to be fizzy and flubby at the same time.


----------



## Ataraxia2320 (Apr 16, 2021)

3.6 roentgen, not great, not terrible.


----------



## Kaura (Apr 16, 2021)

Sounds like an Obsolete/Digimortal leftover track. @Ataraxia2320 put it pretty well.


----------



## gunshow86de (Apr 16, 2021)




----------



## TheShreddinHand (Apr 16, 2021)

I dig it!


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Apr 16, 2021)

I'll be honest, this is the best Burton sounded in a long time. I also think I hear Tony doing backing vocals, that or Burton's deep growls got REALLY intense. Kind of sucks that Burton left, because it sounds like his voice kinda got back in shape, at least in the studio. 

And I dig it to be honest. 2:18 was giving me Divine Heresy vibes.


----------



## Werecow (Apr 16, 2021)

gunshow86de said:


>




That's how Dino got a bullet in his windscreen, this is actually his neighbourhood


----------



## Quiet Coil (Apr 16, 2021)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I'll be honest, this is the best Burton sounded in a long time. I also think I hear Tony doing backing vocals, that or Burton's deep growls got REALLY intense. Kind of sucks that Burton left, because it sounds like his voice kinda got back in shape, at least in the studio.



The reverb or whatever they’ve got on the vocals remind of something off of Transgression. But yeah, I don’t hate it (even if I want to ).


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Apr 16, 2021)

Werecow said:


> That's how Dino got a bullet in his windscreen, this is actually his neighbourhood


Man... America has gone to shit.


----------



## mastapimp (Apr 16, 2021)

I heard this on Liquid Metal yesterday and thought it was just okay, but after seeing the video and listening a few more times I'm digging it a lot more than I thought I would. Actually kind of sad that Burton's not gonna be with the band anymore if this turns out to be a solid release.


----------



## Quiet Coil (Apr 16, 2021)

mastapimp said:


> I heard this on Liquid Metal yesterday and thought it was just okay, but after seeing the video and listening a few more times I'm digging it a lot more than I thought I would. Actually kind of sad that Burton's not gonna be with the band anymore if this turns out to be a solid release.



I kind of hope they throw him a bone from the album sales, even if there’s no legal obligation.

I know it wouldn’t be enough to live off of, but I could see a future if Burton wanted to contribute as a “collaborator” and they just focused on studio albums and merch (no touring).

Such a stupid situation.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Apr 16, 2021)

Quiet Coil said:


> I kind of hope they throw him a bone from the album sales, even if there’s no legal obligation.
> 
> I know it wouldn’t be enough to live off of, but I could see a future if Burton wanted to contribute as a “collaborator” and they just focused on studio albums and merch (no touring).
> 
> Such a stupid situation.



IIRC he's the main lyricist of FF, and I imagine they need to credit him for that regardless of his ownership since I'm sure he wrote the lyrics he's singing. Will probably be paid for that due to credits.

As for Burton coming back... we'll see? In recent interviews, he's still really pissed off about it all, and even talked about how bad it got during the Genexus sessions. Hell even though Dino tried to be cordial at first, he's starting to jab back at Burton. Even going as far as saying how bad his recent live performances were.


----------



## Quiet Coil (Apr 16, 2021)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> IIRC he's the main lyricist of FF, and I imagine they need to credit him for that regardless of his ownership since I'm sure he wrote the lyrics he's singing. Will probably be paid for that due to credits.
> 
> As for Burton coming back... we'll see? In recent interviews, he's still really pissed off about it all, and even talked about how bad it got during the Genexus sessions. Hell even though Dino tried to be cordial at first, he's starting to jab back at Burton. Even going as far as saying how bad his recent live performances were.



That’s just it - I don’t really want him to “come back” per se, every iteration of a functioning FF band has ended badly. If anything collaborate on albums with no intent of performing live or just let it (finally) end.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Apr 16, 2021)

Quiet Coil said:


> That’s just it - I don’t really want him to “come back” per se, every iteration of a functioning FF band has ended badly. If anything collaborate on albums with no intent of performing live or just let it (finally) end.



I mean that I get the impression that Dino and Burton probably don't want to have anything to do with each other at all anymore. At first it seemed like "whatever" from both camps. Now it's pretty nasty. Dino is pretty intent on continuing without Burton, and seems to already have a replacement lined up?


----------



## Quiet Coil (Apr 16, 2021)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I mean that I get the impression that Dino and Burton probably don't want to have anything to do with each other at all anymore. At first it seemed like "whatever" from both camps. Now it's pretty nasty. Dino is pretty intent on continuing without Burton, and seems to already have a replacement lined up?



Yeah I hear you, just my pie in the sky. I’m a fan of post-Max Sepultura, but I have a hard time envisioning FF sans Burton.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Apr 16, 2021)

Also FWIW Dino says he recorded this with a JCM800 and his Protone pedal. So pretty much the first time he's used a pure analog rig since Obsolete.


----------



## ArtDecade (Apr 16, 2021)

Sounded like FF. Shame B is out of the band.


----------



## thrsher (Apr 16, 2021)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I'll be honest, this is the best Burton sounded in a long time. I also think I hear Tony doing backing vocals, that or Burton's deep growls got REALLY intense. Kind of sucks that Burton left, because it sounds like his voice kinda got back in shape, at least in the studio.
> 
> And I dig it to be honest. 2:18 was giving me Divine Heresy vibes.



i tought the same thing to myself on burtons vocal performance. this could be the best he has had since reformation. 
also agree about the DH vibes on the riffs


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Apr 16, 2021)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Also FWIW Dino says he recorded this with a JCM800 and his Protone pedal. So pretty much the first time he's used a pure analog rig since Obsolete.


Yeah, but did he use a load box and IRs, or mic'd up cabs? Lol


----------



## BusinessMan (Apr 16, 2021)

I like the song. Chorus is pretty catchy and the bridge riff is nice.


----------



## p0ke (Apr 20, 2021)

Never been a fan of FF but this is definitely not bad at all. I don't like the clean vocals (never did), but everything else on there is solid. 
I always thought the vocals were the weak link in FF, so I'm mostly excited to hear a new vocalist in there. IMO someone like Christian Älvestam (ex- Scar Symmetry) would make the band so much better.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Apr 20, 2021)

p0ke said:


> Never been a fan of FF but this is definitely not bad at all. I don't like the clean vocals (never did), but everything else on there is solid.
> I always thought the vocals were the weak link in FF, so I'm mostly excited to hear a new vocalist in there. IMO someone like Christian Älvestam (ex- Scar Symmetry) would make the band so much better.



Seems like he's interested in finding and unknown guy (or gal).


----------



## p0ke (Apr 20, 2021)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Seems like he's interested in finding and unknown guy (or gal).



Yup, I read that. But it'd be cool if he found someone with a deeper growling sound, _like_ mr. Älvestam.


----------



## ArtDecade (Apr 20, 2021)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Seems like he's interested in finding and unknown guy (or gal).



Well, they cost less than an established singer. So, there's that...


----------



## Ataraxia2320 (Apr 20, 2021)

What is the singer from Threat Signal up to these days?


----------



## thrsher (Apr 21, 2021)

Ataraxia2320 said:


> What is the singer from Threat Signal up to these days?


that would be extremely ironic if dino uses jon howard.


----------



## Dudley (Apr 21, 2021)

I’m a huge FF fan, they got me in to music overall and playing guitar. The bar is set low for me to be amped up by new material by them... but that was just bad. 

How do you blow your recording advance from the label, crowdfund more money for mixing/mastering and still end up with such a poor sounding recording? Super twangy and bad tone to go along with the uninspiring riffs.

All that being said, I’m still going to listen to the album and be beyond excited the second it shows up on Apple Music


----------



## Ataraxia2320 (Apr 21, 2021)

Love or hate his mixes, Andy Sneap doesn't come cheap.


----------



## PatientMental76 (May 3, 2021)

Dudley said:


> I’m a huge FF fan, they got me in to music overall and playing guitar. The bar is set low for me to be amped up by new material by them... but that was just bad.
> 
> How do you blow your recording advance from the label, crowdfund more money for mixing/mastering and still end up with such a poor sounding recording? Super twangy and bad tone to go along with the uninspiring riffs.
> 
> All that being said, I’m still going to listen to the album and be beyond excited the second it shows up on Apple Music


If you can make a better sounding recording please let me know the secret, the tone is very tight & mixed well its just how the dude plays its no different than anything else Dino has done post Demanufacture, it may even be a little tighter! You can clearly hear the Kemper & he uses light strings! All these critics but funny no links to their fantastic music/production work!


----------



## Knyas (May 3, 2021)

PatientMental76 said:


> If you can make a better sounding recording please let me know the secret, the tone is very tight & mixed well its just how the dude plays its no different than anything else Dino has done post Demanufacture, it may even be a little tighter! You can clearly hear the Kemper & he uses light strings! All these critics but funny no links to their fantastic music/production work!


Found Dino's alt.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (May 4, 2021)

PatientMental76 said:


> All these critics but funny no links to their fantastic music/production work!



This is a logical fallacy.


----------



## Demiurge (May 4, 2021)

I've recorded some shitty-sounding guitars in my day, so I guess that makes me obligated to like everything that sounds better. Fuck.


----------



## oldbulllee (May 4, 2021)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> So uhh
> This happened
> https://twitter.com/DinoCazares/status/1352395133497397248
> 
> ...



from experience, something like that would happen if it was fired from some distance. say more than 100 meters. the piece of metal he mentions, is a thin strip of aluminum, and wouldn't stop anything more than another piece of aluminum.


----------



## oldbulllee (May 4, 2021)

KnightBrolaire said:


> * puts on tinfoil hat*
> Hmmm what if Dino actually had a rock hit his windshield, and faked the bullet being lodged in his windshield for publicity/to throw shade on the other FF guys....
> i'm joking. That would be batshit insane. hilarious, but insane.


the rifling marks are clearly visible, so it was definitely fired from a gun. but maybe he did shoot it at something soft, recovered it and put it in there.


----------



## PatientMental76 (May 4, 2021)

MaxOfMetal said:


> This is a logical fallacy.


MaxOFMetal the resident snowflake legend of sevenshit.org has spoken!


----------



## MaxOfMetal (May 4, 2021)

PatientMental76 said:


> MaxOFMetal the resident snowflake legend of sevenshit.org has spoken!


----------



## ArtDecade (May 4, 2021)

PatientMental76 said:


> MaxOFMetal the resident snowflake legend of sevenshit.org has spoken!


----------



## KnightBrolaire (May 4, 2021)

oldbulllee said:


> the rifling marks are clearly visible, so it was definitely fired from a gun. but maybe he did shoot it at something soft, recovered it and put it in there.


It's not deformed at all, which is why I made the joke about it being planted.


----------



## gunshow86de (May 5, 2021)




----------



## wakjob (May 5, 2021)

Sucks that one, if not my favorite metal band ever has so much B.S. and drama involved.

Anyway, I could watch Dino do playthrough's all day long.
And I will have a Elan Metalhead Marshall some day!


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (May 5, 2021)

gunshow86de said:


>




IDK why people are giving him shit for his tone. Sounds better than his tone on Industrialist or Genexus.


----------



## Quiet Coil (May 5, 2021)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> IDK why people are giving him shit for his tone. Sounds better than his tone on Industrialist or Genexus.


I can’t help but think people are comparing his tone to modern contemporaries (djent and whatnot). FF has never been about anything other than crushing distortion with just enough definition to emphasize Dino’s palm muting (with the _very_ occasional clean-ish section). But you already know this… 

Seriously, the tone on (what are imo) classics like Demanufacture and Obsolete kind of sounds like crap - and yet it’s friggin awesome in the given context.


----------



## Demiurge (May 5, 2021)

It's hard to explain, but his tone has this kind of middy-fizz that usually sounds "crispy" and aggressive whereas with the new song the characteristic sounds (to me) mushy instead.


----------



## BusinessMan (May 5, 2021)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> IDK why people are giving him shit for his tone. Sounds better than his tone on Industrialist or Genexus.



I'd put the tone on genexus over this IMO. Sounded crisper to my ears.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (May 5, 2021)

BusinessMan said:


> I'd put the tone on genexus over this IMO. Sounded crisper to my ears.



Nah, Genexus got that weird attack that makes me hate a lot of Kemper tones.


----------



## Dudley (May 5, 2021)

PatientMental76 said:


> If you can make a better sounding recording please let me know the secret, the tone is very tight & mixed well its just how the dude plays its no different than anything else Dino has done post Demanufacture, it may even be a little tighter! You can clearly hear the Kemper & he uses light strings! All these critics but funny no links to their fantastic music/production work!



Lol, settle down tiger... they're only words, they can't hurt you

Dino's tone has been different on every record he's ever been been on - I'd be incredibly impressed if someone sounded identical despite cycling through different amps, effects, cabs, guitars, pickups, studios, engineers, producers, microphones etc. over several decades. If you think this is 'no different' then maybe you need to get your hearing checked, or just over-react to other peoples opinions a little bit less? Your call 

I wouldn't say this tone is more or less tight than usual for him, but to my ears there's an obnoxious fizz/twang to it that really isn't to my tastes and isn't something I'd typically expect to hear from him. Obsolete was definitely fizzy as anything, and he's always had a lot of top end and attack, but this isn't too reminiscent of prior tones to me.


----------



## BusinessMan (May 5, 2021)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Nah, Genexus got that weird attack that makes me hate a lot of Kemper tones.



I really liked the tone on genexus. Def has to be one of my favorites. I also really liked the one on industrialist


----------



## PatientMental76 (May 5, 2021)

Dudley said:


> Lol, settle down tiger... they're only words, they can't hurt you
> 
> Dino's tone has been different on every record he's ever been been on - I'd be incredibly impressed if someone sounded identical despite cycling through different amps, effects, cabs, guitars, pickups, studios, engineers, producers, microphones etc. over several decades. If you think this is 'no different' then maybe you need to get your hearing checked, or just over-react to other peoples opinions a little bit less? Your call
> 
> I wouldn't say this tone is more or less tight than usual for him, but to my ears there's an obnoxious fizz/twang to it that really isn't to my tastes and isn't something I'd typically expect to hear from him. Obsolete was definitely fizzy as anything, and he's always had a lot of top end and attack, but this isn't too reminiscent of prior tones to me.



Maybe you should get your eyes checked champ i was referring to his playing but i wouldnt expect more from this forum these days


----------



## Ataraxia2320 (May 5, 2021)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Nah, Genexus got that weird attack that makes me hate a lot of Kemper tones.



I call it the quack attack because thats what it sounds like.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (May 5, 2021)

Ataraxia2320 said:


> I call it the quack attack because thats what it sounds like.



Yep that's exactly what it is. His sound on the new song is a bit more djenty, but it definitely sounds better when compared to Genexus. Although nothing compares to how monstrous his sound on Mechanize was.


----------



## Ataraxia2320 (May 5, 2021)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Yep that's exactly what it is. His sound on the new song is a bit more djenty, but it definitely sounds better when compared to Genexus. Although nothing compares to how monstrous his sound on Mechanize was.



Hot take, Mechanise is up there with the very best albums they have ever done. 

For me there's Obsolete, Archetype, Mechanize, Demanufacture and then the rest.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (May 5, 2021)

Ataraxia2320 said:


> Hot take, Mechanise is up there with the very best albums they have ever done.
> 
> For me there's Obsolete, Archetype, Mechanize, Demanufacture and then the rest.



Nah I agree. I put it up there with Soul and Demanufacture.


----------



## Quiet Coil (May 5, 2021)

Mechanize (and that lineup) are totally underrated. Hoglan on the drums was almost too obvious a choice (like Nicholson as the Joker) but man the result was pummeling.


----------



## BusinessMan (May 5, 2021)

Quiet Coil said:


> Mechanize (and that lineup) are totally underrated. Hoglan on the drums was almost too obvious a choice (like Nicholson as the Joker) but man the result was pummeling.



Mechanize is probably my top 2 FF albums. Really good riffage and Hoglan is just awesome in there. I feel like he fit the band really well


----------



## Kyle Jordan (May 5, 2021)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Yep that's exactly what it is. His sound on the new song is a bit more djenty, but it definitely sounds better when compared to Genexus. Although nothing compares to how monstrous his sound on Mechanize was.



It kind of snuck up on me, but many of Dino’s tones are benchmarks and aim points for me. Bleed The Fifth, Demanufacture, and Mechanize. Shit, Disassemble off of The Industrialist is what finally kicked my ass in to buying an 8 string after a couple of years of thinking about it and “Impossible Is Nothing” is largely what started me wanting one.


----------



## Dudley (May 6, 2021)

PatientMental76 said:


> Maybe you should get your eyes checked champ i was referring to his playing but i wouldnt expect more from this forum these days



Right back at ya for talking about his playing then when it’s not what I was talking about at all. Why start talking about his playing being no different? Did I suggest at any point it was? Totally irrelevant comment.

Somewhat more on topic... does anyone else miss Christian being in the band just for how great his bass tones were?

Dino rightfully gets a lot of credit for his tone, but I feel like Christian always dialled in something very complimentary that added a lot to the overall sound for him and his bass tone on Digimortal in particular is amazing. Intro to ‘Damaged’ being a good example - the tone is huge, fattens up the mix massively and still has great definition/clarity. It’s something that’s definitely lacking on all the albums since he left. 

The tone in the solo bass parts of ‘Machine Debaser’ and ‘Terminate’ from Hatefiles, which was recorded around that time, was an absolute goal for me in my formative playing years. Perfect amount of punch and grind.


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## ArtDecade (May 6, 2021)

PatientMental76 said:


> Maybe you should get your eyes checked champ i was referring to his playing but i wouldnt expect more from this forum these days


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## oldbulllee (May 9, 2021)

KnightBrolaire said:


> It's not deformed at all, which is why I made the joke about it being planted.


i know. there are circumstances that would allow it to happen. the bullet is not a soft point so if it slows down enough it wont deform or shatter. 45 is slow to begin with, and if it is fired from enough distance it could end up like that, in the photo.


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## sonoftheoldnorth (May 14, 2021)

New track 'Fuel Injected Suicide Machine'
Also made a shitty meme


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## sonoftheoldnorth (May 14, 2021)

I like the aggression in Burton's vocals, but not into these strings and piano tbh. These singing sections are getting a bit too cookie cutter, I suppose being a fan of this band for like 20 years, it all does kinda get a bit stale


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## gunshow86de (May 14, 2021)

Yup, sounds like Fear Factory.


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## shpence (May 14, 2021)

sonoftheoldnorth said:


> I like the aggression in Burton's vocals



Agreed! He sounds great on this song. Minus the cheese-factor of the name, I like this one a lot more than, "Disruptor".


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## Kaura (May 14, 2021)

Was listening to some music from Spotify today and the new single came out. For a second I thought "is this some old song I haven't heard before?" because it sounds so classic. Not a masterpiece but still a solid FF song. Low key excited for the full album.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (May 14, 2021)

shpence said:


> Agreed! He sounds great on this song. Minus the cheese-factor of the name, I like this one a lot more than, "Disruptor".


The song title's a reference to Mad Max. You even hear the sample at 2:18. Dino's a huge Mad Max fanboy.


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## BusinessMan (May 14, 2021)

I like the new song. The name is metal af


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## shpence (May 14, 2021)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> The song title's a reference to Mad Max. You even hear the sample at 2:18. Dino's a huge Mad Max fanboy.


 Haha I understand.


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## Quiet Coil (May 14, 2021)

Definitely big Demanufacture vibes on FISM (which is a good thing). That chorus though… maybe it’ll grow on me?


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (May 14, 2021)

Quiet Coil said:


> Definitely big Demanufacture vibes on FISM (which is a good thing). That chorus though… maybe it’ll grow on me?



I was gonna say that this song sounded more like a continuation of Genexus to me because of the chorus. I know FF has always had some melodic choruses, but there's this certain forumla to the songs that the band mixed up during Genexus that I'm hearing on that album and the 2 new songs.


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## Quiet Coil (May 14, 2021)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I was gonna say that this song sounded more like a continuation of Genexus to me because of the chorus. I know FF has always had some melodic choruses, but there's this certain forumla to the songs that the band mixed up during Genexus that I'm hearing on that album and the 2 new songs.



On second listen the verse vocals almost give me more of a Transgression vibe, but yeah since Genexus it’s all jumbled up.


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## Ataraxia2320 (May 14, 2021)

Found the second single to be really boring. Still have hopes for the album, does anyone know when it drops actually?


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## BusinessMan (May 14, 2021)

Ataraxia2320 said:


> Found the second single to be really boring. Still have hopes for the album, does anyone know when it drops actually?



I think June 18. That's the date I've been seeing


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## gunshow86de (Jun 18, 2021)




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## Quiet Coil (Jun 18, 2021)

Thanks for sharing @gunshow86de. Honestly forgot all about this, sounds like there’s some decent stuff throughout the album.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jun 18, 2021)

After listening to it, to me it seems like a better sounding Genexus. Dino seemed to find a formula with that album he liked and stuck with it. Only downside is the drums sound... there.  Heller's drumming doesn't grab me like Ray's or Gene's.


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## Bdtunn (Jun 18, 2021)

This was surprisingly good


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## TheShreddinHand (Jun 18, 2021)

New album is great after two listens. Great stuff.


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## BusinessMan (Jun 18, 2021)

I liked the album a lot. I feel like the opening track is fairly weak for an opening track. I have to say manufactured hope and monolith are my favorites. It's pretty good overall.


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## KailM (Jun 19, 2021)

This is Burton C. Bell on vocals, right?


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jun 19, 2021)

KailM said:


> This is Burton C. Bell on vocals, right?


Yep, for sure the vocals are from the 2017 Monolith sessions (when Dino claims that's the last time he spoke with Burton). Same with the guitars + some overdubs that were done recently. Drums and synths I THINK were done recently as well. Not sure about bass.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Jun 19, 2021)

Not a big fan, but I may check it out since I've been following this thread awhile. I enjoyed the song from the Saw II soundtrack, which I think was COW on guitars.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Jun 19, 2021)

I was not aware that their albums were conceptual, and some of them are based on The Terminator, so I think I need to check their stuff out a little more closely.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jun 19, 2021)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> I was not aware that their albums were conceptual, and some of them are based on The Terminator, so I think I need to check their stuff out a little more closely.



Yeah at least Dino is a Terminator and Mad Max fanboy. The song Pisschrist even samples the T800 "theme".


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## Spaced Out Ace (Jun 19, 2021)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Yeah at least Dino is a Terminator and Mad Max fanboy. The song Pisschrist even samples the T800 "theme".


I learned recently that Lance Henriksen (Aliens, Pumpkinhead, Millennium) was initially cast as Terminator, and even used in selling the idea to executives. However, they decided, for some reason, that they needed a big muscle bound version, so it went to Schwarzenegger. Alternately, the idea of a sleek, unassuming Terminator was reused in T2, giving Robert Patrick the role. The reason mostly revolved around the idea that Blackie Lawless was too big to play the T-1000. I'd love to go to the alternate reality with Lance Henriksen as the T-800 and Blackie Lawless as the T-1000.


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## Quiet Coil (Jun 19, 2021)

The beginning to Zero Signal is also straight from The Terminator. Kind of neuters that scene when the guitars don’t hit (being that I’ve heard the song many, many more times than I’ve seen the movie).


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## Werecow (Jun 19, 2021)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> The reason mostly revolved around the idea that Blackie Lawless was too big to play the T-1000. I'd love to go to the alternate reality with Lance Henriksen as the T-800 and Blackie Lawless as the T-1000.


Wtf. That conjures up all sorts of weird scenes in my head. "I need your clothes, your boots, and your B.C. Rich"


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## Spaced Out Ace (Jun 20, 2021)

Werecow said:


> Wtf. That conjures up all sorts of weird scenes in my head. "I need your clothes, your boots, and your B.C. Rich"


The other movie he was supposed to star in was Trick or Treat, but he refused to mime to Fastway, so he lost out of the part of Sami Curr.

Lead singer of heavy metal band WASP, Blackie Lawless, was considered for the role of the liquid-metal T-1000, although his height proved to be a problem. The role of the original Terminator had been written for a man of average stature, who could easily blend in to a crowd, and James Cameron wanted to apply that original concept to dramatic effect for the T-1000. In an AOL chat, Lawless explained, "Probably the biggest regret that I have, though I didn't turn it down, was a part in Terminator 2 that Robert Patrick got. Arnold Schwarzenegger wanted me to do the part, but when he found out I was 6'4", I couldn't. I regret not being able to do that."

W.A.S.P. frontman, Blackie Lawless had auditioned to play Sammi Curr. He was close to getting the role and even offered to do the whole soundtrack album if he got the part. But when director, Charles Martin Smith told Blackie that they got Fastway to do the soundtrack and he would be lip-syncing to them, Blackie refused the role, telling Smith that he didn't need Fastway's music when he had his own band to do the music.


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## Quiet Coil (Jun 20, 2021)

AC feels like a good enough album to go out on. Doesn’t really leave me wanting more, but there’s a lot of different styles from throughout their career on here plus a dash a freshness here and there.

Still wish Dino would just rename the band or focus on a different project going forward - to me BCB really is (was) just as much FF as DC.


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## brector (Jun 21, 2021)

Can we get them to try another style for their videos other than Call of Duty meets the Day After Tomorrow?


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## Veldar (Jul 13, 2021)

Ehh honestly they should of gotten the classic line up back together dropped a final album and bounced.

Fear factory have been treading water since archetype (imho it's at least good, at the very least they got rid of those shit house line 6 tones. Meshuggah really knew what they were doing compared to Dino)

Dino knows he'll make more dosh using the FF name but so much of that music was Raymond & Burton, hell even Christian would of shifter the band towards the bouncier sound they had post demanufacture.


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## Crungy (Jul 13, 2021)

I listened to the new album a and it kinda scratches the FF itch, but I'm over Burton. I like his lyrics and harsh vocals, but his melodies are soooo tired. He's not a good singer unfortunately and there's plenty of live videos to prove how bad he is. Not even with singing but talking too: there was a show is Seoul where he greets the crowd and has the biggest voice crack I've ever heard... I can't believe they put that out there, I'd be embarrassed to be involved with that whether I was Burton or not!

Trash talking aside, I'm ready for a new FF vocalist. Someone who has more vocal range and a decent scream would really freshen up the music.


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## Crungy (Jul 13, 2021)

Now that I say there's plenty of references for Burton's bad singing, I haven't found anything glaringly bad. Guess I have some research to do lel


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 13, 2021)

Veldar said:


> Ehh honestly they should of gotten the classic line up back together dropped a final album and bounced.
> 
> Fear factory have been treading water since archetype (imho it's at least good, at the very least they got rid of those shit house line 6 tones. Meshuggah really knew what they were doing compared to Dino)
> 
> Dino knows he'll make more dosh using the FF name but so much of that music was Raymond & Burton, hell even Christian would of shifter the band towards the bouncier sound they had post demanufacture.



Speak for yourself.  Mechanize is up there with one of the best FF records IMO. After hearing Transgression and Arkaea, I'm fine with COW never touching the band again. Sure I'd like to hear Ray in the band, but he has his own ventures making him more money that he probably did with FF.

Industrialist was boring, but Genexus was great, and the new album is even better IMO.


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## Quiet Coil (Jul 14, 2021)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Speak for yourself.  Mechanize is up there with one of the best FF records IMO. After hearing Transgression and Arkaea, I'm fine with COW never touching the band again. Sure I'd like to hear Ray in the band, but he has his own ventures making him more money that he probably did with FF.
> 
> Industrialist was boring, but Genexus was great, and the new album is even better IMO.



Hear! hear! I remember coming across Mechanize when I didn’t even realize Dino and Burton got back together - it was such a brutal and stripped-down return to form (having Gene on the kit sure didn’t hurt either).

AC has really grown on me, some really fun riffs to play on here. Once you get over the sing-songy choruses (a few of which aren’t half bad), Burton’s belting sounds killer too.

And while Heller doesn’t necessarily add a lot, his performance is a bajillion times better than the programmed drums they used on The Industrialist (which apparently the original cut of this album had as well?).

The weirdest part to me is what feels like a lack of the overarching theme/story that Burton would always lay out during promotions for the release. That and “End of Line” isn’t really the kind of tune they’d normally end the album on (though the stuff at the very tail end nearly gets it done).

P.S. Am I the only one that hears a bit of “the impressive clergyman” on Recode? YO DWAAAME!!!!


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Aug 5, 2021)

https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/fear-factorys-dino-cazares-to-play-guitar-for-soulfly-on-u-s-tour/

Guess that vocalist hunt isn't going as great as expected


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## thrsher (Aug 5, 2021)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/fear-factorys-dino-cazares-to-play-guitar-for-soulfly-on-u-s-tour/
> 
> Guess that vocalist hunt isn't going as great as expected



dude still needs to earn. its a good move. i get it.


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## Ataraxia2320 (Aug 5, 2021)

Crungy said:


> I listened to the new album a and it kinda scratches the FF itch, but I'm over Burton. I like his lyrics and harsh vocals, but his melodies are soooo tired. He's not a good singer unfortunately and there's plenty of live videos to prove how bad he is. Not even with singing but talking too: there was a show is Seoul where he greets the crowd and has the biggest voice crack I've ever heard... I can't believe they put that out there, I'd be embarrassed to be involved with that whether I was Burton or not!
> 
> Trash talking aside, I'm ready for a new FF vocalist. Someone who has more vocal range and a decent scream would really freshen up the music.



I take it you have heard of Divine Heresy?


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## neurosis (Aug 5, 2021)

thrsher said:


> dude still needs to earn. its a good move. i get it.


this news has me confused though. Who will play the leads in some of the later material? Or will they skip the parts/songs?
If Dino can play those leads it'll be cool to see.


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## PatientMental76 (Aug 5, 2021)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/fear-factorys-dino-cazares-to-play-guitar-for-soulfly-on-u-s-tour/
> 
> Guess that vocalist hunt isn't going as great as expected



Im sure he has somebody already in mind


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## ArtDecade (Aug 5, 2021)

PatientMental76 said:


> Im sure he has somebody already in mind


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## Crungy (Aug 5, 2021)

Ataraxia2320 said:


> I take it you have heard of Divine Heresy?




I have, though I think I've only seen heard one of their songs on YouTube years ago.


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## linchpin (Jan 11, 2022)

So apparently, he's the one filling those big shoes... Milo Silvestro


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 11, 2022)

linchpin said:


> So apparently, he's the one filling those big shoes... Milo Silvestro




I googled him just to see and

https://twitter.com/dinocazares/status/1326091082459832320






IF THIS IS TRUE
Then I wonder if Milo has actually been the guy for awhile now.


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## thrsher (Jan 12, 2022)

if this is the guy, im not disappointed from what i hear


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## linchpin (Jan 12, 2022)

I'm only going by that live video but he seems very... dependent on his gadgets for the cleans.... but I could be wrong and it's a stylistic choice.


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## CanserDYI (Jan 12, 2022)

ArtDecade said:


>


Why does that superman tattoo look like he got it from a vending machine and applied it in the bathroom at a Steak and Shake?


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## ArtDecade (Jan 12, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> Why does that superman tattoo look like he got it from a vending machine and applied it in the bathroom at a Steak and Shake?



Because that is how things were done when we were growing up.


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## CanserDYI (Jan 12, 2022)

ArtDecade said:


> Because that is how things were done when we were growing up.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jun 5, 2022)

FEAR FACTORY To Reissue The Industrialist With Real Drums & Bonus Tracks


Plus the album's original closer.




metalinjection.net





Idk if this deserves it's own thread, but it's confirmed a reissue of The Industrialist (Re-Industrialized) is coming out with re-recorded drums and bonus tracks.


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## thrsher (Jun 5, 2022)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> FEAR FACTORY To Reissue The Industrialist With Real Drums & Bonus Tracks
> 
> 
> Plus the album's original closer.
> ...


Stoked for this. Absolutely love Mikes work with the band and in general.


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## Zer01 (Jun 5, 2022)

Why Enhanced Reality? That’s on Genexus.


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## Kyle Jordan (Jun 5, 2022)

Kind of hoping the reissue comes with instrumentals as well. Really enjoy those alongside the full versions.


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## PatientMental76 (Jun 7, 2022)

I wish Dino would release The Industrialist with slightly edited programmed drums & say they were live & you would see the masses say how much better it sounds lol! If they were not honest about it back then nobody would have said a thing about them being programmed at all! And you cant tell me the drums on Mechanize with the so called "drum god" are not grid aligned! If your familiar with programmed drums you can easily pick it out!


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## thrsher (Jun 7, 2022)

PatientMental76 said:


> I wish Dino would release The Industrialist with slightly edited programmed drums & say they were live & you would see the masses say how much better it sounds lol! If they were not honest about it back then nobody would have said a thing about them being programmed at all! And you cant tell me the drums on Mechanize with the so called "drum god" are not grid aligned! If your familiar with programmed drums you can easily pick it out!


their is a certain cymbal hit they use that really gives it away on the industrialist. it eats at me every time. im excited for hellers work on this one


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