# Keyboards in Metal Tips.



## Pooluke41 (Oct 24, 2011)

Well, I'm trying to add Keyboards/Strings into my music to add Definition.

But the Only thing I'm doing is just adding Chords to the Song,

Anything I can do other than that?


(Waiting for Schecterwhore to provide a sexy thesis, Hopefully involving some octatonic scales.)


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## Mr. Big Noodles (Oct 25, 2011)

I suppose I've brought this upon myself. 

Carl Sagan once said, "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe." Fundamentally, what this is, is an orchestration question, and orchestration is fundamentally giving bits of music to various instruments. At its very base, we typically find practical orchestration - you put the notes with the instruments that can play them and where they sound the best. A simple analysis of popular music finds that this is the governing factor of arranging; guitars, being mid-range instruments, will have some say on the melody, one player plays lead lines that are higher in range, they might move for the vocals, the bass guitar remains under all of that to give support (very often doubling the guitar, or playing roots), and drums are sort of off to the side, either keeping time or adding some kind of effect to the music. I have no doubt in my mind that this is a representative model of the great majority of music made with that particular ensemble. Melody and accompaniment is a classic texture, and exists in all kinds of music. Why? Well, it's not terribly sophisticated and it's easy to churn out. We can keep adding instruments to that ensemble, either assigning them to the melody or accompaniment, but I'm sure that you've realized having everything doing the same thing is kind of lame. This takes us to our next step.

The artistic way of orchestrating is to achieve a certain color. This is a more conscious effort, and is what we'll be talking about. (By the way, I don't mean to invalidate the previous model. If the color you're looking for is that melody + accompaniment thing, with everybody doing one thing at the same time, then that's obviously what you'll do. I want to examine some strategies that are more involved.)

First, let's look at a fairly obvious model. What we need to do when orchestrating is to make room for whatever instruments we want to use. Imagine you have a guitar riff going on, and you want to have keyboards in the song somewhere. We can easily make room for the keyboard by having the guitar drop out and having the keyboard play the riff instead. This can be done in a number of ways, either by flat out having one play and one tacet, or by assigning some roles and having them switch off. The latter method might be something like melody and accompaniment, where keys does melody for eight bars and guitar does accompaniment, then they switch, etc. Take this example - it starts off with this guitar whammy bar dive thing, then the guitar quickly takes to an uninteresting accompaniment role while the synth is playing some line over it. This isn't a complex example, but it illustrates this idea fairly succinctly.

Conception - Cardinal Sin


You also see this in the form of trading solos, as in this song (starting after 3:14):

Adagio - Children of the Dead Lake


Piano, then some riffy guitars, keyboard solo, guitar solo, guitar solo with some different colors, finishes up with a quick little piano thing. You see the interplay of elements here.

Where complex orchestration really works well is when you have a number of melodic lines occurring at one time. Therefore, the most fruitful ground for orchestration is where you also find a lot of counterpoint. See how the bass and guitar parts are independent of each other at the beginning of this song:

Death - Flesh and the Power It Holds


Then check out what happens at 4:15. The clean guitar is playing a distinct melodic line (albeit an ostinato), and the guitar solo is happening over that. It's not as if the clean guitar is playing accompaniment figures or chugging a tonic - it has its own identity. After that, listen to what happens at 5:24. That's one of the most awesome melodic lines ever given to a bassist. At 5:32, the guitar comes in with a separate melody above that. Even by having just two musical ideas occurring simultaneously, you can really thicken the texture of music.

When you have a bunch of melodies, it gets more intricate and you can do more. Look at the first twenty-eight seconds of this song:

Dimmu Borgir - Progenies of the Great Apocalypse


Can you identify the elements? The guitar has the most basic part, hitting a rhythmic ostinato. The strings open the song with a big chord, and the brass sound a melody. At 0:09, the orchestra answers in response to that melody. At 0:12, same thing - guitars are still doing the ostinato, there's another big chord, done with woodwinds and strings this time, then the strings have that (formerly) brass melody. Brass answers the melody with the same response as before. Skip to 2:17. The voice has a melody, the guitar is playing a rhythmic figure similar to before, but is also melodic. Listen to the strings on top of all that - their melody is completely different. At 2:47, the strings echo the previous vocal melody. At 3:00, some brass jumps out. 3:15 is another shift in orchestral color. We have a choir come in, and the oboe doubles the choir (creating a more complex tone color, but not a counterpoint). The strings sort of follow the choir along, but have a slightly different melody. At 3:44, another shift. We have some vocals and a piano, each with a separate melody. A solo violin gives us another counter melody. See if you can pick out everything at 4:27. There's the piano, playing a notey chromatic line, the ostinato guitar riff from the beginning, a melody in the brass (And there is also a call and response within the brass section. Listen for that.), and the strings are sort of hanging out all around that. Finally, at 4:38, everybody comes together to get ready for that half cadence. These aren't complicated ideas, they just complement each other.

My advice? Learn about different textures. Here are the big ones:

Monophony - A single melodic line. Everybody plays/sings this melody. Think people singing "Happy Birthday" (and not smartass musicians that harmonize it). If you don't include the vocals, this describes the great majority of death metal.

Homophony - Everybody plays different notes, but plays with what is basically the same rhythm. Whenever you harmonize something, it is extremely likely that this is the texture you're experiencing. Chords + melody also falls under this category, which means pretty much everything you can think of.

Polyphony - Many distinct melodies happening simultaneously, with individual rhythms. True counterpoint falls under this category.

Johann Sebastian Bach - Toccata and Fugue in D Minor


Each color is a different voice. During the fugue (2:50 - end), watch for shapes and patterns. Fugues are built on imitative counterpoint, which means that all of the melodic material is derived from one melody, and you see bits of the melody being presented in different voices at different times, while the other voices have other parts of the melody occurring at the same time. Think of how you would orchestrate the individual voices. At 4:23, there is a melodic figure that's represented in purple and orange. The organ has the ability to create different timbres, so Bach gave a different timbre to each voice, rather than just keeping it as one timbre the entire way through that passage. He's effectively trading instruments there.


These are subsets of these textures:

Heterophony - Everybody plays monophonically, but ornaments the melody differently. The most common musical texture in the world (across cultures), and the one I care for the least.



Henry Cow - Teenbeat (The first 48 seconds)


Antiphony - Call and response, where the response is usually monophonic or homophonic. Another really common texture. Use this if you want to get some pussy. Make it angry if you want some metal kid's cock.

Peter Gabriel - In Your Eyes


1:33 - "In your eyes" is the response. He says some lyrics that nobody will ever know, but the entire crowd can shout the response. This technique is used in a lot of anthems and makes for good pop hooks. For when you _reeeaaally_ want people to know the name of the song. Same spiel here:

Leonard Cohen - Hallelujah


I honestly don't know any part of that song except for "Hallelujah", because that's the power of fucking antiphony.

In a nutshell, your musical textures have to match your orchestral ambitions. Make a need for multiple voices, then use other instruments to give sound to those voices. If you want more on this subject, here's another thread I was summoned to: http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/mu...ointers-oh-also-using-dim-7ths-sw-please.html


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## Pooluke41 (Oct 25, 2011)

Schecterwhore,

I want your Babies.


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## niffnoff (Oct 25, 2011)

Epic post is epic.

+ The thread linked pretty much helped me in terms of voicings and creating much stronger writing for my strings and orchestral compositions for that matter.


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## Mr. Big Noodles (Oct 25, 2011)

Glad to hear it, dude. It all ties in together, harmony, voice leading, counterpoint, part writing, orchestration. The more you know, the better you can express yourself.



Pooluke41 said:


> Schecterwhore,
> 
> I want your Babies.



Be warned that I have the genes of a tall person. My brother's head got stuck on the way out.


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## Pooluke41 (Oct 25, 2011)

SchecterWhore said:


> Be warned that I have the genes of a tall person. My brother's head got stuck on the way out.




Even better. For my *Plans*.


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## Solodini (Oct 25, 2011)

I'd say that homophony is my favourite textual device of SW has mentioned. I find it to be the best at keeping things concise. Have a look at the bass guitar forum and find the thread on basslines which move independently of guitar lines. My post in there can be expanded to further orchestration. I imagine that your problem is that your keyboard lines lack shape and form so a homophonic approach sold help with that. Inexperienced polyphonic attempts can often detract from the rhythmic character of main riffs/hooks, which is not likely what you want to happen. Also, don't feel that each note needs to last all the way up to the next. An easy way to create the space SW was talking about us to make long notes shorter. Horizontal (rhythmic) space is as important as vertical (harmonic) space. These rhythmic spaces can make it easier to avoid unwanted dissonance in trying to make a long held chord fit over more erratic movements such as guitar lines. 

Simplifying lines to create other lines (simple homophony) is a great way to give things complimentary movement without adding unnecessary complication or detracting from the main hook. The guitar melodies near the end of AAL's On Impulse uses this approach but the two versions of the melody occur separately, rather than in tandem. 

If you want to look at concise arrangement in contemporary music, I can think of nothing better than Motown, be that Stevie Wonder, the Jacksons, Gloria Gaynor or one of many others.


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## All_¥our_Bass (Oct 25, 2011)

Most people add lush "string section playing chords" behind their music.
If I was doing this for death metal, it'd do something more percussive and dissonant.
I think metal with chaotic stravinskian backing would own.


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## AxeHappy (Oct 25, 2011)

When I use keys in my songs it's almost always just as a chord Pad. Fills up empty frequencies and because I'm a pretentious music theory douche I'll always having playing weird ass chords that fill the sound out even more. 

Basically if you want to write chord padding parts learn your chord theory. If you can't instantly make a least a simple 13 chord don't touch keyboards.


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## niffnoff (Oct 25, 2011)

Well I was listening to some power metal earlier, you could try listening to what some of these guys do, some use string chords to begin with, then have a ripping solo or harmonise with the guitar. Or as SW mentioned use the guitars as rhythmic ostinatos and make use of your two hands to back the chords and make a melody.

Here's the examples (my favourite ones and not all power metal)



Children of Bodom - Downfall



Sonata Arctica - San Sebastian



Stratovarius - Eagleheart



Dimmu Borgir - Perfection or Vanity (beautiful piece in my opinion)


If these ideas are useless then sorry


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## KingAenarion (Oct 26, 2011)

I agree with pretty much everything said so far.



Another thing is, if you're a keyboard player, take inspiration from genres that are far more piano driven.

The keyboardist in my band take heavily from Ben Folds when he writes, as well as a lot from Jazz.


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## All_¥our_Bass (Oct 26, 2011)

AxeHappy said:


> When I use keys in my songs it's almost always just as a chord Pad. Fills up empty frequencies and because I'm a pretentious music theory douche I'll always having playing weird ass chords that fill the sound out even more.
> 
> Basically if you want to write chord padding parts learn your chord theory. If you can't instantly make a least a simple 13 chord don't touch keyboards.


I love synths for how complete you can have chords be and how you can every note exactly where you want it, and have as many as you want.


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## Pooluke41 (Oct 26, 2011)

AxeHappy said:


> When I use keys in my songs it's almost always just as a chord Pad. Fills up empty frequencies and because I'm a pretentious music theory douche I'll always having playing weird ass chords that fill the sound out even more.
> 
> Basically if you want to write chord padding parts learn your chord theory. If you can't instantly make a least a simple 13 chord don't touch keyboards.



That's all I end up doing, 

I just end up using chords to back the song up,


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## troyguitar (Oct 26, 2011)

Look at it as a primary instrument instead of something to add in the background to a more or less complete song and it will be much easier.


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## All_¥our_Bass (Oct 27, 2011)

More orchestra than keyboard (but it demonstrates the point quite well)
Emperor's Prometheus album, plus it has the advantage of being made of pure win.


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## Solodini (Oct 28, 2011)

One thing I just remembered to add: try hocketing i.e. splitting one part systematically between two instruments. Rather than trying to come up with a keys part as well as a guitar part and find space for them both, split one part into two, so they combine to make one melody/coherent section.


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## Whereistheclick (Nov 2, 2011)

What you can also try doing is adding the root note of whatever riff you have and hold it with the keyboard and play the octaves, my old band did that, and it worked well, if yyou have a sick riff you want to stand out backup on the keysby just playing the octaves and ifor a chorusy type thing you can add the melody on top of the chord progression and play a fuller chord other than the octaves, my old band did that, listen to it to get an idea of what I mean

Myspace.com/lasthours

Jiut hear them for reference,


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## Waelstrum (Nov 2, 2011)

Schectorwhore has (once again) said pretty much all I would have said and then some (a lot). So here are some examples that I think work quite well:







EDIT:


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## Mr. Big Noodles (Nov 2, 2011)

Whereistheclick said:


> What you can also try doing is adding the root note of whatever riff you have and hold it with the keyboard and play the octaves, my old band did that, and it worked well, if yyou have a sick riff you want to stand out backup on the keysby just playing the octaves and ifor a chorusy type thing you can add the melody on top of the chord progression and play a fuller chord other than the octaves, my old band did that, listen to it to get an idea of what I mean
> 
> Myspace.com/lasthours
> 
> Jiut hear them for reference,



Your penchant for repetition amuses me.


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## stevemcqueen (Dec 4, 2011)

SchecterWhore said:


> I suppose I've brought this upon myself.
> 
> In a nutshell, your musical textures have to match your orchestral ambitions. Make a need for multiple voices, then use other instruments to give sound to those voices. If you want more on this subject, here's another thread I was summoned to: http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/mu...ointers-oh-also-using-dim-7ths-sw-please.html


 
I saw this thread and as a guitarist who started as a pianist, I thought I may have some advice. Now I am the one walking away with a better understanding . And


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## Mr. Big Noodles (Dec 4, 2011)




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## Overtone (Dec 7, 2011)

That l
Post was indeed the kind of thing that makes it cool to come here. 

My addition is that Evergrey (esp In Search of Truth, with the guy who joined soilwork after), Symphony X, Emperor, and Arcturus are great metal bands with keys where you can hear ideas not based on chords.

Edit: and Swallow the Sun!


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