# Convince me to get a Caparison...



## Church2224 (May 10, 2011)

Title says it all. I know I bee nasking about different brands lately, Ibanez, Parker, DBZ, Jackson, ect. Saving up for a Music Man Petrucci 7 right now. but the TAT and Horus are fitting the bill for me the lkooks of it. Price wise, quality, looiks, just tell me how awesome they are. I been in a "Made in the USA" Mindset that I need to break, too many other good guitars out there...


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## highlordmugfug (May 10, 2011)

Get a Caparison.


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## Razzy (May 10, 2011)

I'm not going to convince you to do anything. Caparison is so good, you shouldn't need convincing. It is an honor to play them, and nobody should have to talk you into it. If you need to be convinced by somebody else to want a Caparison, you are not good enough to own, and do not deserve, a Caparison. :|


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## Church2224 (May 10, 2011)

Razzy said:


> I'm not going to convince you to do anything. Caparison is so good, you shouldn't need convincing. It is an honor to play them, and nobody should have to talk you into it. If you need to be convinced by somebody else to want a Caparison, you are not good enough to own, and do not deserve, a Caparison. :|


 

I am putting this as my Facebook quotes, just too damn funny!!!!


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## teqnick (May 10, 2011)

I've had a Horus and a Dellinger, and while they are pretty and play well , I wouldn't particularly say that they are better than Ibanez prestiges. They're solid MIJ playing guitars, but acoustically, there's always something lacking, and the neck is a bit on the thicker side. All that aside, i've almost convinced myself to like Caparisons more than I actually do, but for the price, it's not justifiable. Try one if you can, and if you really bond with one, get one. If not, I would look elsewhere.


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## SirMyghin (May 10, 2011)

If you need to be convinced, chances are it isn't what you are looking for. 





Razzy said:


> I'm not going to convince you to do anything. Caparison is so good, you shouldn't need convincing. It is an honor to play them, and nobody should have to talk you into it. If you need to be convinced by somebody else to want a Caparison, you are not good enough to own, and do not deserve, a Caparison. :|



You are killing me, it is an honor to play them, I cracked up, seriously.


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## Church2224 (May 10, 2011)

SirMyghin said:


> If you need to be convinced, chances are it isn't what you are looking for.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

I never played one, no dealers near me. So I needs imput. 

From what the poster above you said Idk, Might just go with Ibanez, ESP or Jackson....


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## ibanezRG1527 (May 10, 2011)

everyone gets ESP's and ibanez's and jacksons. i say get the caparison. ive been itching dor a dillenger 7 string but i cant afford one without selling a kidney


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## yellowv (May 10, 2011)

I've had 3 Caps. One was stellar, was was great and one was okay. I have had 3 JP's and all were stellar. I would take an EBMM over a Cap any day of the week. Keep saving for the JP7.


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## Church2224 (May 10, 2011)

This thread is confusing me a bit. Get the Music Man, Get the Caparison, The same as an Ibanez Prestige, and in the back of my head, I want a Suhr M2 as well....shit...


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## themike (May 10, 2011)

Visually I think the oiled Dillengers and Angelus models are gorgeous....but man, I don't think they feel like 2k or more guitars. This is completely my opinion of course but I was extremely dissapointed with the necks of the models I played.


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## teqnick (May 10, 2011)

yellowv said:


> I've had 3 Caps. One was stellar, was was great and one was okay. I have had 3 JP's and all were stellar. I would take an EBMM over a Cap any day of the week. Keep saving for the JP7.



I've owned one of his caparisons, and he's owned one of my Mms. I think we can both agree that the rosewood neck jp6 absolutely destroyed that fucking horus hgs.


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## Arterial (May 10, 2011)

ITT: Convince me to stop hating on dem japoneses.


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## yellowv (May 10, 2011)

teqnick said:


> I've owned one of his caparisons, and he's owned one of my Mms. I think we can both agree that the rosewood neck jp6 absolutely destroyed that fucking horus hgs.



That is correct sir.


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## ittoa666 (May 10, 2011)

I've heard that if you like Jackson's, you'll like caparison, being that they are an old mij jackson factory, and the horus was a jackson prototype.


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## shanejohnson02 (May 10, 2011)

If you get a caparison, get one of these:







Just because I said so. And that seems to be the premise this thread is working on anyway


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## AySay (May 10, 2011)




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## Curt (May 11, 2011)

Only ever played one caparison, and it was an Horus HGS oiled walnut with a maple neck/fingerboard.

Played fairly nicely, 27 frets is overkill for me, though.


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## JacobShredder (May 11, 2011)

Dude I was in the exact same spot a couple weeks ago. Caparison vs ebmm vs Parker. I ended up going Parker and don't regret it at all. Don't listen to other completely. Take their opinions into consideration but look at each guitar and decide which one would do it more for you. Pickups are replaceable.


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## AirJordanStaal (May 11, 2011)

Michael Romeo should be the answer to more questions IMO


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## teqnick (May 11, 2011)

I haven't seen anything biased in this thread, other than the nonsensical bullshit. 

It's already been stated that he should look at all the choices, weigh them out accordingly to his preferences. The two people in this thread that have owned caparisons and other guitars around the same "level" do agree one on thing, though.

All in all, Caparisons aren't anything special, especially not considering the price tag.


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## Arterial (May 11, 2011)




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## yellowv (May 11, 2011)

Don't get me wrong I like Caparisons. I bought my first Horus for $1500 and change imported from Japan when there were no US dealers. That was a great guitar and the price was okay. Now that a standard Horus is about $2300 and an HGS $2500 I say they are not worth the coin. Especially being that the newest one I got, the HGS that Nick also owned was the least great one of the bunch. The fretwork wasn't great, the inlay work was a bit sloppy and it didn't resonate acoustically for shit. That could have just been a bit of a lemon, but honestly a USA Jackson is at least as good as a Cap and cheaper and easier to obtain.


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## jordanky (May 11, 2011)

I loved my Caparison. I had a Dellinger II and the neck was perfect for me. But unfortunately, I got spoiled when I got my first PRS, so I swapped the Dellinger out for another PRS. Would I have another Caparison? Absolutely, but only if I found a good deal on a used one, because I agree that they're overpriced.


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## McBrain (May 11, 2011)

I have a standard Horus. The finish and fretwork on mine is ok, but not great and it has some minor cosmetic flaws. I also had to adjust to the chubby neck, but thats more of a preference issue. All in all it was not what I expected in this pricerage. 

I still love it though, but I don't see myself buying another one new. However, if you can find a used one at a good price, its a great playing/sounding guitar. (when you change the bridgepickup that is)


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## teqnick (May 11, 2011)

The Dellinger I currently have now, is better than the HGS in terms of fit and finish. There are no flaws here. The frets are in better shape, and the inlays are beautiful on this one.

Caparisons would worth it if they were about $3-400 dollars cheaper, and even then , their quality control is sporadic. I strongly prefer the RGA321 I recently sold to Arterial over this dellinger. 

After adjusting to the Caparison neck profile, it's a non-issue, but again, I expected way more from a guitar that costs upwards of $1800. If you can get a stellar deal on a used Caparison, it wouldn't be bad to try, but I wouldn't go in with great expectations.


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## eaeolian (May 11, 2011)

The Caparisons are nice, but not any better than the higher-end MIJ Jacksons - which shouldn't be a surprise, since they're basically the same guitars. Given the price difference, I'd check those out, too.

So I guess I'm going against the thread title. Used, the Caparisons are probably worth it if you can find them for a decent price. New? I'd buy a USA Jackson or EBMM, personally.


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## HighGain510 (May 11, 2011)

eaeolian said:


> The Caparisons are nice, but not any better than the higher-end MIJ Jacksons - which shouldn't be a surprise, since they're basically the same guitars. Given the price difference, I'd check those out, too.
> 
> So I guess I'm going against the thread title. Used, the Caparisons are probably worth it if you can find them for a decent price. New? I'd buy a USA Jackson or EBMM, personally.



Haha this is about exactly what I was going to post.   I liked the Applehorn I had, really nice guitar, but I'd take an EBMM over that any day or a used USA Jackson if I could find a good one at a decent price.


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## Jack Secret (May 11, 2011)

I do love me my Caparisons but still cringe I paid $3500 for a TAT Special. Now that I'm going with Carvin guitars, I get kick ass guitars that are USA made AND tons cheaper that the rest AND get the extras I want.


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## Erick Kroenen (May 11, 2011)

Don't buy a caparison.... hahaha


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## JacobShredder (May 11, 2011)

Everyone's gonna have their opinions.  They would be a good deal on the used market for a nice one, which my parker fly deluxe used was cheaper than any caps i've found used.


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## metalheadblues (May 11, 2011)

protest the hero





Arch enemy...


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## Rook (May 11, 2011)

If you like Jackson MG series you'll like Caparison.

If you like paying for MG Series Jackson, you'll hate Caparison. I've been debating a Caparison, but don't be drawn in by the price tag. Expensive =/= Good, and stuff like USA Jackson, EBMM, whatever, are a whole league above Caparison.

If Caparison were 1000-1500 then great, the fact they're double that I find very disappointing. The TAT is an SL3MG with a trem, the Dellinger a DKMG. The woods are never incredibly nice, the rosewood always a dull brown instea of a rich, deep red.

Id love a Caparison, wouldn't dream of buying a new one.


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## caskettheclown (May 11, 2011)

Buy one or you will be doomed to play the hello kitty stratocaster forever!


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## Adam Of Angels (May 11, 2011)

I really like Caparison.

However, Ibanez Prestiges are usually at least just as nice, and often better. J-Customs are the same price as Caparisons and are leagues better in every way.

For the money, get a EBMM, J-Custom, Parker, Jackson, Suhr, Anderson, or PRS. Any one of them are at least twice the guitar for the same price.


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## groph (May 12, 2011)

Get this one.


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## Sudzmorphus (May 13, 2011)

Adam Of Angels said:


> I really like Caparison.
> 
> However, Ibanez Prestiges are usually at least just as nice, and often better. J-Customs are the same price as Caparisons and are leagues better in every way.
> 
> For the money, get a EBMM, J-Custom,* Parker*, *Jackson*, *Suhr*, Anderson, or PRS. Any one of them are at least twice the guitar for the same price.


 
Gonna haveto disagree there. 

A decent parker here costs more than a caparison horus and for me the horus is a better guitar (Ive owned more than one of each models, actually I think ive owned about 11 horii)

Jacson cost shitloads over here (im sure they're cheaper in yankland) but the high end ones I've played just didnt do it for me, sure they look nice but there was no feel to them.

Suhr cost like £2400+ here (about £1000 more than a horus/dellinger) and im sorry but after playing them I think they are the most overated guitars around. Maybe I played the wrong ones but I a/b'd them with an dellinger and the dellinger was louder unplugged, had a nicer neck, better p/u (and im not a fan of capa p/u's) and cost £1200 less.

At the end of the day we're all dif. I love my horus more than any guitar i've ever played BUT the ones I played that we're 2007-2009 seemed abit poorer than the others I tried. since then they seem to have got back on the ball abit (I think Itaru canned the other guy down to chatting birds, maybe due to the fact he let a few lemons through as I know this is something Itaru is super anal on)

Best bet is to try one Im sure some stores will have a 2 week trial type deal.


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## themike (May 13, 2011)

Sudzmorphus said:


> Gonna haveto disagree there.
> 
> A decent parker here costs more than a caparison horus and for me the horus is a better guitar (Ive owned more than one of each models, actually I think ive owned about 11 horii)
> 
> ...



Luckily the OP is here in the states instead of the UK since the prices are more comparable to the brands Adam mentioned


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## eaeolian (May 13, 2011)

In the US, a Horus and a USA Jackson soloist are comparatively priced - and the Jackson Pro line (built by the guys that used to work for Itaru, and vice/versa) is considerably cheaper. In the UK, the Caparison might well be the better value.


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## Jack Secret (May 13, 2011)

The reason Jacksons and Caps seem so similar is that the head of Caparison Itaru Kanno was the head Jackson guitar builder in Japan.


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## Church2224 (May 13, 2011)

I think I made up my mind....

I got Ibanez Prestige, Carvin, and Jackson USA guitars. Might just stick with them. Also might go with the Jackson Pro Series, ESPs (loving the M2 ATM), DBZ, ect.

Funny people mention Suhr. In Blacksburg there is a Suhr dealer wiithin walking distance from campus that I take lessons at. Suhrs are some of the best damn guitars out there lol, and I think I would rather get one then anything else. Problems being that it would take six months for them to build me a Pro Series and Customs are about 3 grand or more. Not saying they are not worth it, just saying. ALso would love to try a Tom ANderson...


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## Jack Secret (May 13, 2011)

Church2224 said:


> I think I made up my mind....
> 
> I got Ibanez Prestige, Carvin, and Jackson USA guitars. Might just stick with them. Also might go with the Jackson Pro Series, ESPs (loving the M2 ATM), DBZ, ect.
> 
> Funny people mention Suhr. In Blacksburg there is a Suhr dealer wiithin walking distance from campus that I take lessons at. Suhrs are some of the best damn guitars out there lol, and I think I would rather get one then anything else. Problems being that it would take six months for them to build me a Pro Series and Customs are about 3 grand or more. Not saying they are not worth it, just saying. ALso would love to try a Tom ANderson...



Suhr's seem horribly overpriced to me. Even the earlier Pensa-Suhr's that I tried at Rudy's Music Stop on 48th & Broadway in NYC were good guitars but not for the price. 

You mention Carvin and I say they can't be beat plus you'll get it in 2 months instead of 6 months and they even only take 20% down. I'm dying for my customs but the first 2 still have 5 weeks to go. 

One note, tho. Don't change anything after you order it. It's like $50 a change plus/minus whatever the cost of what you adding (or subtracting) to change something. I wanted to change one to no inlays from abalone blocks. Blocks are $80 so removing them would cost me $30 in the end.


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## Church2224 (May 13, 2011)

Jack Secret said:


> Suhr's seem horribly overpriced to me. Even the earlier Pensa-Suhr's that I tried at Rudy's Music Stop on 48th & Broadway in NYC were good guitars but not for the price.
> 
> You mention Carvin and I say they can't be beat plus you'll get it in 2 months instead of 6 months and they even only take 20% down. I'm dying for my customs but the first 2 still have 5 weeks to go.
> 
> One note, tho. Don't change anything after you order it. It's like $50 a change plus/minus whatever the cost of what you adding (or subtracting) to change something. I wanted to change one to no inlays from abalone blocks. Blocks are $80 so removing them would cost me $30 in the end.


 

lol I wish I could get a couple more Carvins. I got two already. Both are pretty damn good. 

To each there own about Suhr, idk they seem to feel right to me. Plus they have a lot of options if you want to get a custom. Still divided between them and G&L, Seems as if G&l are the same but cheaper, in terms of quality...


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## Thesius (May 13, 2011)

Convinced?


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## Overtone (May 13, 2011)

can i get a true temperament up in here? what what!


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## Doomsday Brian (May 14, 2011)

Having owned 3 (2 horii and a dellinger) they are fantastic shredder guitars, solid tones, and they're pretty. I have to say though that I believe they are lacking a bit in the soul department for me personally, something about them just felt a bit dull to me compared to say a prestige ibanez (let alone say a prs of equal value). Also because of how niche they are, reselling them will be a bitch if you don't vibe with it. It took me ages to move mine. Ultimately your GAS will win but be warned, especially with the horus (short scale with 27 frets and meh stock pickups.)


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## Rook (May 14, 2011)

Sudzmorphus said:


> Gonna haveto disagree there.
> 
> A decent parker here costs more than a caparison horus and for me the horus is a better guitar (Ive owned more than one of each models, actually I think ive owned about 11 horii)
> 
> ...



I have to say also being British, I still wouldn't pay new prices for a Caparison. Particularly as you aren't comparing like for like - you're essentially comparing Cap's cheapest of the cheap against what's essentially top of the line USA stuff. If you compare it to the brands you mentioned's japanese made stuff, and even some new gear.

It doesn't line up for me. They are decently made, but not custom shop grade like Jackson USA, Suhr or EBMM - all of which can be imported/had used for around what you'd pay for the cheapest Caparison. As soon as you look at anything other than your standard Horus, UK Caparison prices jump over 2k anyway.

Horus aside, they are very expensive for what you get - a Japanese, Production Line, Factory made guitar - no maple tops or anything, awful stock pickups.... It just doesn't compete with what you can even get from Jackson Japan _for me_.

I'd take an SLAT3-7 over a Dellinger 7 any day of the week, unless price suddenly crashed one Caparison. The only thing that draws me to Caparison are the fact I've never owned one, they're perceived as slightly higher end than Jackson Japan and they have a cool headstock.

What is it with Japanese guitar builders and awful pickups?


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## Jack Secret (May 14, 2011)

Fun111 said:


> What is it with Japanese guitar builders and awful pickups?



Ibanez used to have awesome stock pickups. After the F2's and 3's, it was all downhill. The DiMarzio/IBZ's border on horrid. 

I don't mind the Cap stock pups. Many told me to change them but I left them in my Apple Horn. They sounds pretty good through my rig.


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## Adam Of Angels (May 14, 2011)

Yeah, I don't mind stock Caparison pickups, but I don't love them either. I currently have stock pickups in my RG1570 and they actually sound excellent. I'm swapping them, though, so I guess that spells it out 

In any case, what Jack said about Carvin is true - they're amazing guitars, and ultra cheap for what you're getting. However, I don't know what import costs will be for our English friends. 

With that said, ESP is another viable option. I have yet to play an ESP that wasn't consistent with every other ESP I've played. I have no complaints about them, and would play nothing but ESP Customs if they were reasonably priced.


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## Church2224 (May 14, 2011)

Adam Of Angels said:


> Yeah, I don't mind stock Caparison pickups, but I don't love them either. I currently have stock pickups in my RG1570 and they actually sound excellent. I'm swapping them, though, so I guess that spells it out
> 
> In any case, what Jack said about Carvin is true - they're amazing guitars, and ultra cheap for what you're getting. However, I don't know what import costs will be for our English friends.
> 
> With that said, ESP is another viable option. I have yet to play an ESP that wasn't consistent with every other ESP I've played. I have no complaints about them, and would play nothing but ESP Customs if they were reasonably priced.



That is what I was thinking. I picked up a maple M2 that was stellar. For 1,500 it seemed like it was worth it to me. I might check it out. Right now it is down between an Ibanez S5470 Prestige and an ESP M2, IMHO The Ibanez S series prestige's are VERY underrated and Ibanez should put more focus on them (7 string Prestige hint hint) , along with the Mahogony Bodied, flame topped RG prestige's...Which they pissed me off by no longer selling those in the US, loved the mahogany RGs....

Carvin is good too, I love my old Walnut DC400cw.


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## Adam Of Angels (May 14, 2011)

I have an RGT320z at the moment, and I pretty much dare you to find a better guitar. If that's an option for you, I highly recommend it as one you consider.


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## Church2224 (May 14, 2011)

Adam Of Angels said:


> I have an RGT320z at the moment, and I pretty much dare you to find a better guitar. If that's an option for you, I highly recommend it as one you consider.





Could not agree more. I just wish they still made the thing. The red finish they had was awesome I can find a NOS one that would be sweet! But right now I got my eyes set on this-

Ibanez S5470F Prestige Electric Guitar with Case at AmericanMusical.com

or this-

ESP STANDARD SERIES M-II Black/Maple Duncans Neck 6-String Electric Guitar

I need a new job or a raise, being Hooter's cook is not enough, haha


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## Adam Of Angels (May 14, 2011)

Yeah, man, mine is Red Spinel - best color Ibanez makes by far. Find one.

I've had both the S5470F and the M-II, in various forms. I love both guitars and will probably own more in the future. I prefer the M-II, though, since its just one of the best no-nonsense work-horses out there.


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## Rook (May 14, 2011)

Jack Secret said:


> Ibanez used to have awesome stock pickups. After the F2's and 3's, it was all downhill. The DiMarzio/IBZ's border on horrid.
> 
> I don't mind the Cap stock pups. Many told me to change them but I left them in my Apple Horn. They sounds pretty good through my rig.



I think the V2 is a great laugh, but the V7, INF Pickups, Lo-Z... Who comes up with this crap?

/trolly rant

Point: I don't like Caparison pickups, a reason why I wouldn't convince the OP to buy one, because likelihood is he'd want to change them.

Unless he's less of a geeky tone-freak than me, which is highly likely.


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## Church2224 (May 14, 2011)

Fun111 said:


> I think the V2 is a great laugh, but the V7, INF Pickups, Lo-Z... Who comes up with this crap?
> 
> /trolly rant
> 
> ...




lol I would probably change them, Which is disappointing since it is a $2200+ guitar. Why I might get the ESP M2 Already has good pickups. Ibanez Prestige has decent ones, but I might just go get one and swap them, would still be much cheaper.


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## Rook (May 14, 2011)

ESP M-II is a great guitar 

Straight to the point, no bells or whistles, doesn't promise to be better than everything else (though it's better than a lot) and their QC is much tighter.

Used they hold value and demand too. There's a dude on here selling an MII (don't know if he has an add...) for $850, I can send him your way if you like.

AFAIK It's rosewood board, aftermarket DiMarzio pups and very good condition. Black obviously.


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## Church2224 (May 14, 2011)

Fun111 said:


> ESP M-II is a great guitar
> 
> Straight to the point, no bells or whistles, doesn't promise to be better than everything else (though it's better than a lot) and their QC is much tighter.
> 
> ...




Naw man thanks anyway though, I need to pay some bills and get a job first, might look into one next year. But thanks anyway, sounds like a great guitar.


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## Church2224 (May 15, 2011)

lol someone posted on my page if I was convinced or not....

Definitely no from what I read, I mean they look great, but if playability and tone are not worth it then no. Many other choices out there right now for the same price or cheaper. ESP/LTD and Ibanez have finally caught my eye, They are cheaper plus I have played them in person and I love them both. They also broke my "Made in USA" only policy, which now I look back on it seems stupid.


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## Adam Of Angels (May 15, 2011)

LTD does not = ESP


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## Church2224 (May 15, 2011)

Adam Of Angels said:


> LTD does not = ESP




Oh yeah I know, but if I need kind of a "cheaper" guitar I will get an LTD. I have played some of the deluxe models that were pretty damn good imho. Some of the higher signiture models were good as well.


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## Arterial (May 15, 2011)

Adam Of Angels said:


> Yeah, man, mine is Red Spinel - *best color Ibanez makes by far. Find one.*
> 
> I've had both the S5470F and the M-II, in various forms. I love both guitars and will probably own more in the future. I prefer the M-II, though, since its just one of the best no-nonsense work-horses out there.



I'm gonna have to disagree with you and go for Transparent Turqoise


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## hanachanmaru (May 16, 2011)

Hey guys sorry to have interrupted abit here... i am rather interested in caparison guitars especially the walnut HGS dellinger..but i am looking at MJR Sig as well in comparison... didnt know which to choose and i am looking mainly on the tone of the caparisons.. how does anyone here could help to justify the tone ? 

i just played a Rasmus and to my surprise the alder maple + rosewood sounded fantastic ! and would a caparison sound any close to it?


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## teqnick (May 16, 2011)

hanachanmaru said:


> Hey guys sorry to have interrupted abit here... i am rather interested in caparison guitars especially the walnut HGS dellinger..but i am looking at MJR Sig as well in comparison... didnt know which to choose and i am looking mainly on the tone of the caparisons.. how does anyone here could help to justify the tone ?
> 
> i just played a Rasmus and to my surprise the alder maple + rosewood sounded fantastic ! and would a caparison sound any close to it?



I had a Horus HGS walnut as well as a Dellinger.

The HGS was a beautiful guitar, but Walnut is an odd tonewood. It had a really nice low-mid growl, but i found anything else to seem a bit compressed and nasally. 

The regular dellinger (Mahogany, just like the MJR) is more balanced, but is a really dark sounding guitar. Due to the pro finish, there's an emphasis on the lower mids, but the rest of the range isn't really compressed like the Walnut.


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## engage757 (Aug 25, 2011)

gonna necro this. We don't talk about Caparison enough.  any other opinions?


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## Church2224 (Aug 25, 2011)

engage757 said:


> gonna necro this. We don't talk about Caparison enough.  any other opinions?



Well...I am looking into a TAT and a Horus now. I guess that is a good sign

That being said I have not heard anything recently about the Caparison company being reworked...be sad to hear it.


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## USMarine75 (Aug 25, 2011)

Yeah any status updates on Caparison company? 

Fantastic product if they would advertise. Hard to sell $2-3k guitars word of mouth only and compete with the big boys. And for that money they really should upgrade those stock pups...


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## jordanky (Aug 25, 2011)

I just got my Dellinger II back, and I will add that I couldn't be more glad that I did. I had a short PRS GASing phase, and I traded it off for a Swamp Ash Special, but I recently traded back for it. One of my favorite guitars I've ever played and it will always lock down a special place in my heart!


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## Kabstract (Aug 25, 2011)

How 'bout a Jackson SLS3?


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## Church2224 (Aug 25, 2011)

Kabstract said:


> How 'bout a Jackson SLS3?



Those are really good guitars too. I love Jacksons.


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## narad (Aug 25, 2011)

teqnick said:


> Due to the pro finish, there's an emphasis on the lower mids,



I know this description is taken right from the Caparison site, but does anyone believe it? Just sounded like marketing shenanigans to me.


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## yellowv (Aug 25, 2011)

Personally I think it's BS. An oiled Horus HGS sounds exactly the same as a pro black one.


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## Kabstract (Aug 26, 2011)

yellowv said:


> Personally I think it's BS. An oiled Horus HGS sounds exactly the same as a pro black one.



I think paint affecting tone is stretching it a little bit. Perhaps there are some very small differences, but the prices over some of these guitars (I'm talking about other brands too *Gibsonahem*) based on finish is ridiculous.


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## Shadowspecced (Aug 26, 2011)

Church2224 said:


> * I want a Suhr M2 as well*



Do it =)


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## yingmin (Aug 26, 2011)

Kabstract said:


> I think paint affecting tone is stretching it a little bit. Perhaps there are some very small differences, but the prices over some of these guitars (I'm talking about other brands too *Gibsonahem*) based on finish is ridiculous.



You're assuming that the only reason a finish would drive up the price is because of some supposed benefit to tone. Companies don't just make prices up out of thin air. Some finishes are more expensive, and more time-consuming and labor-intensive, to apply, and therefore cost more than others. I don't know why this is such a mystery.


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## yellowv (Aug 26, 2011)

Yeah actually the pro finished caparisons cost exactly the same as their oiled natural counterparts.


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## Osiris (Aug 26, 2011)

I would totally look into one if Ibanezrules didn't have J Customs for $2000. Gassin hard for a Horus HGS though.


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## UnderTheSign (Aug 28, 2011)

I had the pleasure of playing an Applehorn Jazz (fixed bridge & straight frets model) for a full week during IA's camp, and liked it. It was good, but I'm not sure if it's over 2k good. The yellow applehorn IA had with true temperament felt nicer for some reason. 

That said, it was incredibly light and sounded great. Just not my cup of tea.


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## Laxdude67 (Aug 28, 2011)

ESP > Ibanez


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## Church2224 (Aug 28, 2011)

Laxdude67 said:


> ESP > Ibanez



It is more of a preference thing really. Both are equally high quality MIJ guitars.


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## jordanky (Aug 28, 2011)

Church2224 said:


> It is more of a preference thing really. Both are equally high quality MIJ guitars.



This! I've jammed on both and they are both fantastic. ESP is usually going to be pricier right off the bat, but by the time you find a like-spec'd Ibanez guitar, you're probably going to be at around the same price range.


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## Church2224 (Aug 28, 2011)

jordanky said:


> This! I've jammed on both and they are both fantastic. ESP is usually going to be pricier right off the bat, but by the time you find a like-spec'd Ibanez guitar, you're probably going to be at around the same price range.



Jordanky knows what's good ! 

BTW Your Capa is awesome, throw Ibanez, ESP, Jackson and Caparison and you have a Church approved combination of guitars right there.


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## atticmike (Aug 29, 2011)

Dunno why but the moment I was able to shred the shit out of one, I was utterly disappointed. The are much better choices out there considering what you pay for it.

The only market that would be of interest for you is the used one.


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## Sudzmorphus (Aug 29, 2011)

atticmike said:


> Dunno why but the moment I was able to shred the shit out of one, I was utterly disappointed. The are much better choices out there considering what you pay for it.
> 
> The only market that would be of interest for you is the used one.


 

I guess everyones dif, I've been through loads of ESP's and ivebeenhads only to go backto the horus everytime.
For me the horus is perfect and ive owned like 12 of them, Maybe 1 or 2 wernt n par with the others but the rest were amazing.


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## BigBaldIan (Aug 30, 2011)

Personally I've owned a Dellinger, original red sunset TAT and Pete Joseph's Purple People Eater Horus. Firstly there was something able the neck-profile I could never get on with, secondly there was pretty much no difference in build quality between a Caparison and a 90's Japanese Jackson.

It got to the stage where I was playing my Fusion more than the Horus, so the Horus went.


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## chronocide (Aug 30, 2011)

atticmike said:


> Dunno why but the moment I was able to shred the shit out of one, I was utterly disappointed. The are much better choices out there considering what you pay for it.
> 
> The only market that would be of interest for you is the used one.




I'd agree. I'll readily admit I've only gotten to play a couple, both Dellingers, in a shop, but I was grossly disappointed. Struck me as something that I'd have thought reasonably good value at £700. Laughable value at the £1499 that was being asked.


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## engage757 (Sep 2, 2011)

narad said:


> I know this description is taken right from the Caparison site, but does anyone believe it? Just sounded like marketing shenanigans to me.




The better the wood breathes, the more vibration can go through it. Same as Nitro Finish affecting the Fenders. THinner finish = more vibration. Pro finish breathes really well. I think it does what it says it does, having owned quite a few now.


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## Xykhron (Sep 4, 2011)

Do you still need to convinced?. Ok, then try one and decide yourself. That will be your fire-test. 

I did it some years ago and finally sold ALL my guitars (Jackson USA Soloist 1 &2 & PC-1 & RR1T, Jackson Custom Shop Dinky-7, ESP Stardar M-II, M-III, Eclipse & Viper & Horizon, ESP Custom M-II & Hotizon, EBMM Petrucci, PRS Custom 22 & 24, Suhr Modern and some other Ibbys, USA Kramers,some DC Carvin and old Peavey stuff) and currently I own 9 Capas...I replaced my guitars step by step, but firmly. Maybe they're not the best guitars out there, but at least for me they fit my needs. The guitars I owned previously gave me very very good moments, but every day I play my Capas, every day I don't miss them.

The bad points: price (25% less should be more fair price), PUs (they're not bad but also not good) and distribution (poor). 
Also, the neck profile is not for everyone. My band mate doesn't like Horus but Dellinger is ok for him, but some other friends feel no comfortable playing any of them. It depends a lot of your playing style, size of your hands, and a large list of variables.


Try one if you can.


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## Church2224 (Sep 4, 2011)

Xykhron said:


> Do you still need to convinced?. Ok, then try one and decide yourself. That will be your fire-test.
> 
> I did it some years ago and finally sold ALL my guitars (Jackson USA Soloist 1 &2 & PC-1 & RR1T, Jackson Custom Shop Dinky-7, ESP Stardar M-II, M-III, Eclipse & Viper & Horizon, ESP Custom M-II & Hotizon, EBMM Petrucci, PRS Custom 22 & 24, Suhr Modern and some other Ibbys, USA Kramers,some DC Carvin and old Peavey stuff) and currently I own 9 Capas...I replaced my guitars step by step, but firmly. Maybe they're not the best guitars out there, but at least for me they fit my needs. The guitars I owned previously gave me very very good moments, but every day I play my Capas, every day I don't miss them.
> 
> ...



My problem is the nearest dealer is about three hours away, and idk if they move that many.

Right now I plan on sticking with Jackson USAs, ESPs, Ibanez Prestige's, and maybe Suhr, PRS, EBMM and Carvin , but mainly those three, since they seem to be doing well for what I need and they are the guitars I always go back to. I just wanted to see what Capa's were like overall. Since I am seeing such a mixed response now with how they I probably will not. Thanks anyway though.


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## engage757 (Sep 4, 2011)

They fit my needs as well. I bought all of mine sight unseen. Love everyone I have ever owned! My favorites are PRS, Warrior, ESPs and J. Customs. Caparisons top them all in my opinion. Mayones is close, but I love my capas quite a bit. Nothing is better than the angelus.


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## Church2224 (Sep 4, 2011)

engage757 said:


> They fit my needs as well. I bought all of mine sight unseen. Love everyone I have ever owned! My favorites are PRS, Warrior, ESPs and J. Customs. Caparisons top them all in my opinion. Mayones is close, but I love my capas quite a bit. Nothing is better than the angelus.



What happened to Jackson Engage?


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## noob_pwn (Sep 4, 2011)

caparisons are fantastic guitars and they sound huge because of the finishes they use. If i had a choice between a cap and a J-custom or standard series ESP I'd take the cap.


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## jordanky (Sep 4, 2011)

To add to what engage was saying, I got my Dellinger kind of sight unseen. I drove almost five hours to do a blind trade even though I knew I was going to more than likely dig it anyway haha. Also, while we're on the subject of Caps, I will have a NGD Wednesday, barring that nothing happen


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## bonethug (Sep 5, 2011)

if i may give my two cents... Don't get one, Its true they are nice but chances are if you can afford a cap you can just go all out and get a custom. Personally i don't like guitars over the 500$ mark because its hard recovering from having your life savings break or get stolen.


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## Deadnightshade (Sep 5, 2011)

I'll throw this here as a general advice:

If anyone needs persuading about buying something ,then it's usually just the GAS crabs in his pocket.Especially when talking about guitars,since we tend to put looks above the best quality AND looks our money can buy according to the specific type of guitars/gear we seek.

(This as opposed to researching yourself about the product you want to buy,seeking/questioning specific answers to verify that the product suits you )


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## Church2224 (Sep 5, 2011)

Deadnightshade said:


> I'll throw this here as a general advice:
> 
> If anyone needs persuading about buying something ,then it's usually just the GAS crabs in his pocket.Especially when talking about guitars,since we tend to put looks above the best quality AND looks our money can buy according to the specific type of guitars/gear we seek.
> 
> (This as opposed to researching yourself about the product you want to buy,seeking/questioning specific answers to verify that the product suits you )



Like I said a few times before, I do not have the opportunity to try one at all. The nearest dealer to me is in New York, and I live in southern Virginia, and I am not going to drive 8 hours to try a guitar, so word of the web is all I heard. I really just wanted to get some knowledge on them since I heard a lot of good about them.


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## Church2224 (Sep 5, 2011)

bonethug said:


> if i may give my two cents... Don't get one, Its true they are nice but chances are if you can afford a cap you can just go all out and get a custom. Personally i don't like guitars over the 500$ mark because its hard recovering from having your life savings break or get stolen.



Well cheapest oneI have was $900 new, and the most expensive was $1,900.00. Plus I never like selling guitars. When I get one it I never plan on selling it. In fact the only reason I am selling my Carvin now is due to unemployment...

And you do not have to worry about it breaking if you take care of it. Stolen, well, that sucks, but if I always worried about and never took that risk I would not have the good guitars I enjoy now.


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## Captastic (Sep 5, 2011)

I think you can see by now that it all comes down to personal preference...and what motivates you to shred. I picked up an Ibbie Jem (the white one)...and thought it was complete garbage. I've never played a J-custom...but they def look like something I'd like.

Tho I own a Cap TAT myself...I wouldn't buy a Cap brand new...but then again I wouldn't buy any high priced guitar brand new. Just not worth the cost (to me). If I was going to buy a new Cap...I'd def go thru Bud Royce (moderator on Cap forum), as he does a pro set-up on every guitar he ships...and has a few nice touches like rolled edges...rounded fret ends...smooth neck mod...ESP arming adjuster...and big brass block mods as well.


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## engage757 (Sep 5, 2011)

Church2224 said:


> Jordanky knows what's good !
> 
> BTW Your Capa is awesome, throw Ibanez, ESP, Jackson and Caparison and you have a Church approved combination of guitars right there.




and an Engage one also! 

Although I must say I really am starting to take Ibanez and Jackson off and put PRS and Warrior back on in their place.


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## engage757 (Sep 5, 2011)

Captastic said:


> I think you can see by now that it all comes down to personal preference...and what motivates you to shred. I picked up an Ibbie Jem (the white one)...and thought it was complete garbage. I've never played a J-custom...but they def look like something I'd like.
> 
> Tho I own a Cap TAT myself...I wouldn't buy a Cap brand new...but then again I wouldn't buy any high priced guitar brand new. Just not worth the cost (to me). If I was going to buy a new Cap...I'd def go thru Bud Royce (moderator on Cap forum), as he does a pro set-up on every guitar he ships...and has a few nice touches like rolled edges...rounded fret ends...smooth neck mod...ESP arming adjuster...and big brass block mods as well.




What TAT do you have? Pics?


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## Church2224 (Sep 5, 2011)

engage757 said:


> and an Engage one also!
> 
> Although I must say I really am starting to take Ibanez and Jackson off and put PRS and Warrior back on in their place.



We need more people in the Jackson revolution  Do not leave us!


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## engage757 (Sep 5, 2011)

bonethug said:


> if i may give my two cents... Don't get one, Its true they are nice but chances are if you can afford a cap you can just go all out and get a custom. Personally i don't like guitars over the 500$ mark because its hard recovering from having your life savings break or get stolen.



I can't think of a single guitar in which I would have even the slightest interest in that price range. Just saying.


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## Church2224 (Sep 5, 2011)

engage757 said:


> I can't think of a single guitar in which I would have even the slightest interest in that price range. Just saying.



Cheapest even I can thing of would be an RG Prestige around $1,000.00


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## engage757 (Sep 5, 2011)

Church2224 said:


> Cheapest even I can thing of would be an RG Prestige around $1,000.00



Yeah, and not even that for me. I am really into Caparison, PRS, Mayones etc. And you can't touch one for that price. I am GASsing for a Flaxwood now, and that is up there too.


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## jordanky (Sep 5, 2011)

Church2224 said:


> Like I said a few times before, I do not have the opportunity to try one at all. The nearest dealer to me is in New York, and I live in southern Virginia, and I am not going to drive 8 hours to try a guitar, so word of the web is all I heard. I really just wanted to get some knowledge on them since I heard a lot of good about them.



That's perfectly understandable! My next piece of advice is, if it's not going to cause a major financial meltdown with you, then just keep your eyes peeled on the used market and pull the trigger when the time is right It's not like it would be that hard to trade for something else, just in case you didn't like it


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## engage757 (Sep 5, 2011)

Church2224 said:


> We need more people in the Jackson revolution  Do not leave us!




Need even more in the Caparison/Mayones revolt.


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## Church2224 (Sep 5, 2011)

engage757 said:


> Need even more in the Caparison/Mayones revolt.



We'll form an alliance against the reign of Gibson and all other inferior guitars with Ibanez, ESP, PRS, Suhr, Tom Anderson, Warrior, KXK and EBMM,


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## Church2224 (Sep 5, 2011)

jordanky said:


> That's perfectly understandable! My next piece of advice is, if it's not going to cause a major financial meltdown with you, then just keep your eyes peeled on the used market and pull the trigger when the time is right It's not like it would be that hard to trade for something else, just in case you didn't like it



This is a good idea as well. Thanks man. Get one used first, if I like it, then get some more in the new market, if not, then trade it for something I already like.


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## jordanky (Sep 5, 2011)

Church2224 said:


> This is a good idea as well. Thanks man. Get one used first, if I like it, then get some more in the new market, if not, then trade it for something I already like.



That's my general take/justification for being a gear whore, hopefully it can work for others as well


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## Church2224 (Sep 5, 2011)

jordanky said:


> That's my general take/justification for being a gear whore, hopefully it can work for others as well



Oh it has worked out as an excuse for me millions of times! 

Either that or the following works as well-

Different body shape
Different Neck Shape
Different Brand
More Strings
Different Colors
Different Pickups 
Different Color

Or I want want more!


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## Xykhron (Sep 5, 2011)

engage757 said:


> Yeah, and not even that for me. I am really into Caparison, PRS, Mayones etc. And you can't touch one for that price. I am GASsing for a Flaxwood now, and that is up there too.



Zack, they look interesting but some strange it them also. I think it's cutaway's shape....by the way, sorry for the offtopic


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## bonethug (Sep 5, 2011)

gentlemen, there is no rule that says a cheap guitar can't be a great guitar, I myself own a Ibby prestige with bkps sounds great but.... My favorite guitar is my bottom shelf grassroots that i traded my broken S series for, I've played caps, and compared to my POS they dont compare. My reasoning for saying don't get a cap:
1. Caps are pretty and they are highly sought after guitars but they are made of wood and magnets same as most other guitars and should not cost as much as used toyotas do.
2. The quality of your cap is the year you buy it, the (same could be said about most guitar companies) so your not guaranteed greatness from the brand name.
3. in terms of feel and ergonomics caparisons are lacking. IMO.


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## jordanky (Sep 5, 2011)

bonethug said:


> gentlemen, there is no rule that says a cheap guitar can't be a great guitar, I myself own a Ibby prestige with bkps sounds great but.... My favorite guitar is my bottom shelf grassroots that i traded my broken S series for, I've played caps, and compared to my POS they dont compare. My reasoning for saying don't get a cap:
> 1. Caps are pretty and they are highly sought after guitars but they are made of wood and magnets same as most other guitars and should not cost as much as used toyotas do.
> 2. The quality of your cap is the year you buy it, the (same could be said about most guitar companies) so your not guaranteed greatness from the brand name.
> 3. in terms of feel and ergonomics caparisons are lacking. IMO.



While these are all legit points, your three reasons to not buy a Caparison can easily be reasons to someone else not to buy a guitar from *insert brand X* PRS, ESP, Ibanez, Gibson, Jackson, you name it.


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## Church2224 (Sep 5, 2011)

jordanky said:


> While these are all legit points, your three reasons to not buy a Caparison can easily be said about any other guitar company from a subjective standpoint. PRS, ESP, Ibanez, Gibson, Jackson, you name it.



Well said man. Well said.


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## jordanky (Sep 5, 2011)

Church2224 said:


> Well said man. Well said.



Don't get me wrong. I still think that they are steep on brand new prices, but what brand isn't? I have no problem in saying that I probably wouldn't buy a brand new Caparison, because I very rarely ever buy brand new gear. I still love my Caparison guitars though!


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## Church2224 (Sep 5, 2011)

jordanky said:


> Don't get me wrong. I still think that they are steep on brand new prices, but what brand isn't? I have no problem in saying that I probably wouldn't buy a brand new Caparison, but I very rarely ever buy brand new gear.



Yeah I am the opposite, I always get my gear new, mainly because I never like selling gear and I keep it as a long term investment, plus to me, it is worth it. Also I never know what condition is honestly is in, it is weird really.

Unless it is rare, from a close friend of mine, a limited run or a custom one off I always get my gear new.


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## bonethug (Sep 5, 2011)

jordanky said:


> While these are all legit points, your three reasons to not buy a Caparison can easily be reasons to someone else not to buy a guitar from *insert brand X* PRS, ESP, Ibanez, Gibson, Jackson, you name it.


 

Very true, I suppose thats why I love playing cheap guitars that i gave a little TLC.


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## engage757 (Sep 5, 2011)

Xykhron said:


> Zack, they look interesting but some strange it them also. I think it's cutaway's shape....by the way, sorry for the offtopic




Hey Juanma! I am having a love hate relationship with them. The Capas/Mayones are still my favorites, but I simply must try one! Not a huge fan of the styling either, but I have to try it!


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## engage757 (Sep 5, 2011)

bonethug said:


> Very true, I suppose thats why I love playing cheap guitars that i gave a little TLC.




To each their own man. Shit, my Dad has a stupid collection of basses. He plays the ugliest USA Spector NS I have ever seen. He loves it because it is already beat up and doesn't have to worry about it. 

I on the other hand... 

And in Caparison's defense, They have models to suit anyone's taste really. And you could even get a Chatting Bird relatively cheap if you wanted too.


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## bonethug (Sep 6, 2011)

engage757 said:


> To each their own man. Shit, my Dad has a stupid collection of basses. He plays the ugliest USA Spector NS I have ever seen. He loves it because it is already beat up and doesn't have to worry about it.
> 
> I on the other hand...
> 
> ...


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## engage757 (Sep 6, 2011)

bonethug said:


> engage757 said:
> 
> 
> > To each their own man. Shit, my Dad has a stupid collection of basses. He plays the ugliest USA Spector NS I have ever seen. He loves it because it is already beat up and doesn't have to worry about it.
> ...


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## Church2224 (Sep 6, 2011)

engage757 said:


> bonethug said:
> 
> 
> > Haha Caparison is just restructuring. Kyowa Shokai is in trouble and they are figuring it out. Caparison is not going under.
> ...


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## Xykhron (Sep 6, 2011)

Church2224 said:


> engage757 said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah a lot of people thought they were, in fact very little know they are NOT going under...
> ...



And some of them are Caparison endorsers.....


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## bonethug (Sep 6, 2011)

well i guess you guys would know more than me right, I only tried to find their Hq since I live in Japan and was told by EVERYONE "out of business".


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## engage757 (Sep 7, 2011)

bonethug said:


> well i guess you guys would know more than me right, I only tried to find their Hq since I live in Japan and was told by EVERYONE "out of business".




Or we just have friends that are endorsers. and dealers. 

And their factory is in Nagoya, which is like 3 hours from you man. according to Google maps. They have simply halted production to be re-structured.


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## engage757 (Sep 7, 2011)

Kyowa also produces like twenty separate companies merchandise, including Danelectro, Randall, Chatting Bird, Dean Markley and Parker. They are spread out, including producing merchandise for Disney and Looney tunes believe it or not. They are just re-structuring, a very common business practice. Worst case scenario, parts of manufacture are bought out by other companies.


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## Church2224 (Sep 7, 2011)

engage757 said:


> Kyowa also produces like twenty separate companies merchandise, including Danelectro, Randall, Chatting Bird, Dean Markley and Parker. They are spread out, including producing merchandise for Disney and Looney tunes believe it or not. They are just re-structuring, a very common business practice. Worst case scenario, parts of manufacture are bought out by other companies.



Is that the same company that also bought out Washburn/ US Music Corp. back in 2009? If it is I need to right them a letter about returning the WM526 to production. 

I really want to see where Caparison goes with this honestly. Maybe more Chatting birds for the younger people who cannot afford a Caparison to get into them. And more production Caparisons. I would love to see a TAT with a maple board...


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## bonethug (Sep 8, 2011)

engage757 said:


> Or we just have friends that are endorsers. and dealers.
> 
> And their factory is in Nagoya, which is like 3 hours from you man. according to Google maps. They have simply halted production to be re-structured.


 
jesus nagoya? thats 3 hours on the shinkanssen... I might be wrong but i think thats where Ibanez is made as well, but dude you gotta realize even if they come back the company wont be the same, they'll start using cheaper building methods to cut cost so the company doesnt falter again.


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## Sudzmorphus (Sep 8, 2011)

bonethug said:


> but dude you gotta realize even if they come back the company wont be the same, they'll start using cheaper building methods to cut cost so the company doesnt falter again.


 

Not true, Itaru is super anal about QC so cant see that happening.


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## Church2224 (Sep 8, 2011)

Sudzmorphus said:


> Not true, Itaru is super anal about QC so cant see that happening.



Agreed. Caparison has released a few lemons, but not like, a lot of them. 

Only thing I can see are cheaper model likes, like Chatting Bird, getting more attention because that is where a lot of sales are for these companies. They may WANT to only build the high end stuff, but to stay alive, they NEED to build a cheaper line of guitars.


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## engage757 (Sep 8, 2011)

bonethug said:


> jesus nagoya? thats 3 hours on the shinkanssen... I might be wrong but i think thats where Ibanez is made as well, but dude you gotta realize even if they come back the company wont be the same, they'll start using cheaper building methods to cut cost so the company doesnt falter again.



I don't think so man. I bet if anything, the custom shop gets opened to the general public and the chatting bird line starts going into full force. Chatting Bird has the potential to save the company, so I actually am agreeing with you in a sense. Just remember that Caparison only makes like 40-50 guitars a month. If they make the custom shop open to the public, then you get more people buying their guitars, in addition to the people already buying the standard Caparisons. Next, you need a broader variety of endorsers. Endorse more people, then you put your company into the public eye. Then your chatting bird sales will increase. The quantity of that line will save Caparison.


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