# The church trying to stop a local venue....



## tacotiklah (Oct 18, 2011)

So for those that aren't in the know of what's going on out here:
Basically my town has gotten a case of the Tea Party fever the last couple of years, the mayor has managed to pass a city ordinance banning public performances (without a permit, in which they put a ton of red tape for those trying to get one) and the war on the local music scene has led to EVERY venue being shut down so that we have nowhere to play. After MONTHS of fighting, we find a place to play that fits within all of the cities' requirements, has a permit, and can accomodate loud music. Then this is going on:
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Yep, a church not far from the venue wants to close it down (before it even opened mind you) due to their claims that their children would be corrupted by the alcohol served there. 

So they plan to ruin the one good thing we have by taking the matter to the city council (know to be full of religious right wingers that are looking for a reason to shut it down anyways) and put a stop to it, which would bankrupt the guy trying to open it because he invested a LOT of money into trying to get it open.


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## Mordacain (Oct 18, 2011)

Awesome, not that I needed another reason to remain an atheist or anything. I'm tired of religious centers getting special status so they can be used as tax shelters and end-runs around people's freedoms in this country.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Oct 18, 2011)

Mordacain said:


> Awesome, not that I needed another reason to remain an atheist or anything. I'm tired of religious centers getting special status so they can be used as tax shelters and end-runs around people's freedoms in this country.



What about the charity they do as well? You can't really blame a whole group of people for one or two incidents.


You should just point out that they also serve alcohol at the church.


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## The Munk (Oct 18, 2011)

Their 'children' would be 21yo at that point. 
Unless these righteous people plan on letting their underage, uncorrupted angels get tanked at the all age events.


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## tacotiklah (Oct 18, 2011)

Stealthtastic said:


> What about the charity they do as well? You can't really blame a whole group of people for one or two incidents.
> 
> 
> You should just point out that they also serve alcohol at the church.


 

Apparently they don't see that as the same thing. I guess the wine served at church is somehow less dangerous than wine served at a venue.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Oct 18, 2011)

Yeah and tbh EVERY venue I've been too has always I.D'd everyone attending whereas pubs I've been too almost never ID.


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## Waelstrum (Oct 18, 2011)

Mordacain said:


> Awesome, not that I needed another reason to remain an atheist or anything. I'm tired of religious centers getting special status so they can be used as tax shelters and end-runs around people's freedoms in this country.



I'd say that this is not happening because this group of dickheads are religious, but because this group of religious people are dickheads.

Do they sing hymns at the church? If so, how hard was it for the church to get a permit? Perhaps it would be possible to set up a church of your own, Scientology style...


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## Stealthdjentstic (Oct 18, 2011)




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## SilenceIsACrime (Oct 18, 2011)

The Munk said:


> Their 'children' would be 21yo at that point.


 
^ This.

If kids are going to drink underage they are going to do it completely separate from the concert area. If the parents aren't responsible enough to keep their kids from sneaking booze in before the show they don't get to blame the venue.


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## Mordacain (Oct 18, 2011)

Stealthtastic said:


> What about the charity they do as well? You can't really blame a whole group of people for one or two incidents.
> 
> 
> You should just point out that they also serve alcohol at the church.



I would vote for the church having a separate entity handle the charity work that could be made tax-exempt and have government over-site like any good charity. The main body of the religious organization should not be tax-free IMO.

Regardless, the city council's zoning restrictions are what bug me about this situation. There are plenty of churchs that have stages internal to their grounds that do not have to apply for the same permits as a live music venue (even if the venue does not serve alcohol). The double-standard is what bugs me.


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## vampiregenocide (Oct 18, 2011)

Sorry, I thought this was the 21st century, guess I was wrong. There are more pressing issues in the world god dammit, backwards idiots.


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## tacotiklah (Oct 18, 2011)

Feel free to comment on that facebook page guys. In just a few days time they accrued like 250+ comments from some really pissed off people. I want to drive the point home....


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## decypher (Oct 18, 2011)

Sounds like Kevin Bacon has to pull off a Footloose in your town . 

I can understand them, it's tradition. Afaik it's not allowed to run a convenience store within 150 feet from a minaret in muslim countries, as it may uphaul their god. Well, doh, you can't just enjoy the fun sides of christianity like heaven, christmas vacation and easter eggs :-D ...


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## tacotiklah (Oct 18, 2011)

decypher said:


> Sounds like Kevin Bacon has to pull off a Footloose in your town .
> 
> I can understand them, it's tradition. Afaik it's not allowed to run a convenience store within 150 feet from a minaret in muslim countries, as it may uphaul their god. Well, doh, you can't just enjoy the fun sides of christianity like heaven, christmas vacation and easter eggs :-D ...


 
You have NOOOOOO idea. Part of the ban on public performance was dancing in public. 

Smells like Kevin Bacon in this town.....


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## Stealthdjentstic (Oct 18, 2011)

No dancing in public? The fuck


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## vampiregenocide (Oct 18, 2011)

That's proper Fascist shit right there. Really silly.


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## Waelstrum (Oct 18, 2011)

ghstofperdition said:


> You have NOOOOOO idea. Part of the ban on public performance was dancing in public.
> 
> Smells like Kevin Bacon in this town.....



Not even a joke: get as many people as you can and do a massive footloose dance outside the church.

Get a hundred people doing this:


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## Explorer (Oct 19, 2011)

ghstofperdition said:


> You have NOOOOOO idea. Part of the ban on public performance was dancing in public.



That's unconstitutional, and whoever manages to gain standing (in this case, any citizen) would have standing to challenge if they are charged.

Organize dancing in the public parks. Take some guitars, sing, dance, and get arrested. Refuse to pay the fines. Get the whole thing rolling, along with support from the ACLU. 

The ACLU is a great place to start with this. Contact them and see if anyone there has any advice on how to start getting this rolled back.

I had a friend who challenged the DC laws on busking. The police kept saying that one had to have a permit, but getting a permit had too many regulations, making it impossible to achieve.  

At this point, DC allows street performing without a license, as a form of protected free speech, thanks to Frank Cassel, who was the one who really pursued it to the point of DC Corporate Counsel issuing a letter defining it as such.

Anyway, take a stand. You migh be surprised to find that you succeed.


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## BucketheadRules (Oct 19, 2011)

This sucks.

What's his beef with the music scene?


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## Ishan (Oct 19, 2011)

Wasn't the USA called the freedom country at one point? 
That sounds like bigots morons run the town, organize a siting in front of the city hall and call the media. With enough pressure like this they should back off. (prepare to have your ass kicked by the cops tho)


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## tacotiklah (Oct 19, 2011)

brutalwizard said:


> can you guide me to this ordinance, i googled it and found nothing haha



google 'Lancaster, Ca city ordinance 966'. It will be the first thing that pops up and is in .pdf format. My phone sucks, otherwise Id provide a direct link.


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## pink freud (Oct 19, 2011)

Call the ACLU. Sounds like this ordinance will go down in flames.


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## Pooluke41 (Oct 19, 2011)

Before this thread derails into the usual religion bashing thread we normally end up with, I just want to say, that this is just a slightly extreme Religious group, it's not representing the whole christian community, even though I have my own problems with religion, don't blame this on Religion, you don't say all baptists are evil bastards because of the Westboro Baptist church do you?

But other than that, this is dickishness to the max.

Also do the footloose dance,

and include Unicycles,

Unicycles are good.


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## XEN (Oct 19, 2011)

vampiregenocide said:


> Sorry, I thought this was the 21st century, guess I was wrong. There are more pressing issues in the world god dammit, backwards idiots.


The thing is, this is turning in to one of the most pressing issues in the US.

We're in an ideological cold war, and at the rate things are progressing it may need to escalate to protect our freedom. Not the freedom that is used as a catch-all propaganda tool to help support any military action we may deem profitable, but the freedom to think, speak, love, and live however we please.


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## rythmic_pulses (Oct 19, 2011)

I don't understand why the mayor or the church would want to shut down venues, it doesn't affect their lives in anyway, the church near where I live was going to be shut down and it is a 300 year old church that has been here before the village was, I am not religious in any way but I thought to myself, I can't just stand back and watch this nasty conservative council shut down something they are not a part of and their reason was "We cannot keep paying for reconstruction of the local church, it would be in everyone's best interests to call it a day and let the church fall apart with time".

Thats when I ran a fundraising charity gig in my village and we got £3000, it wasn't much but it has kept the church alive a little longer and it has changed the way the Vicar views bands and metal/rock in general and supports everything we do now in the future, I just don't understand why certain people are so anti music, they are taking away your free speech by shutting down the venues....


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## Jakke (Oct 19, 2011)

In a way it is lucky for us we unloaded our puritans in the new world.... However it is unlucky for you... 

Well, it is unconstitutional at least, and even I as a godless foreigner can see that.


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## scherzo1928 (Oct 19, 2011)

To quote a good friend of mine: 

"The only church that illuminates is one that's burning"


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## tacotiklah (Oct 20, 2011)

I dont want churches to burn, I want its congregations to get a fuckin clue. I plan to place my efforts into making that happen.


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## Edika (Oct 20, 2011)

I wonder what their reaction would be if they tried to open a mosque 300 feet away...


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## scherzo1928 (Oct 20, 2011)

To clarify, I respect people's religious beliefs (well, most of them because I'm a dick like that), it's churches that annoy me.


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## ghostred7 (Oct 20, 2011)

Ya...this has ACLU written all over it.


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## Customisbetter (Oct 20, 2011)

Ed Chapman said:


> This is America. Any business has the right to set up shop anywhere they legally can. No church has any authority on the subject.



Hope that is ok.


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## The Grief Hole (Oct 20, 2011)

Simple. Burn the church.


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## tacotiklah (Oct 24, 2011)

^No. Just, no. We dont burn churches in this country, regardless of how irritating they are. 


A big thank you to those that responded to that facebook page. I wanna prove to them that their decisions have a rippling effect that can be seen globally. If you havent commented there, feel free to do so. Tell em just how mad you are and what they stand to lose by moving forward with this petition.


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## Konfyouzd (Oct 24, 2011)

This is like the plot to footloose...


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## Guitarman700 (Oct 24, 2011)

Konfyouzd said:


> This is like the plot to footloose...


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## Konfyouzd (Oct 24, 2011)

SilenceIsACrime said:


> ^ This.
> 
> If kids are going to drink underage they are going to do it completely separate from the concert area. If the parents aren't responsible enough to keep their kids from sneaking booze in before the show they don't get to blame the venue.


 
What are you talking about, fool? It's always someone else's fault!!!


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## KingAenarion (Oct 24, 2011)

This makes me so ANGRY!

There are so many things that from a loving Christian standpoint are WRONG with this approach.

But the WORST one of all is that they are essentially saying "Our *right* to worship" is more important than EVERYONE else's rights... when clearly their efforts could be better spent engaging with the community.


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## Guitarman700 (Oct 24, 2011)

KingAenarion said:


> This makes me so ANGRY!
> 
> There are so many things that from a loving Christian standpoint are WRONG with this approach.
> 
> But the WORST one of all is that they are essentially saying "Our *right* to worship" is more important than EVERYONE else's rights... when clearly their efforts could be better spent engaging with the community.


That's mainstream American christianity for you. They feel entitled to everything under the sun.


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## Konfyouzd (Oct 24, 2011)

Guitarman700 said:


> That's mainstream America for you. They feel entitled to everything under the sun.


 
Fix'd


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## Crank (Oct 24, 2011)

this thread reminded of something. I don't know if you're familiar with band called Behemoth. Well, from time to time they have some problems in few venues in Poland. It's all due to Nergal's (band's leader) stage expressions and speeches as well as due to his personal beliefs (or rather not believing in Christian God). Nergal had few court appearances and he won all the fights, yet there are people who are still on his tail. The most notorious man, who is a head of Sect Fighter Ministry (or whatever that due calls that piece of crap), Mr Nowak, used to make a list of the most evil bands and his main target has been to cancel their shows and ban them from media. Well, the list has been published and after that almost every single metal band wanted to sign in to the list. It was a farce, yet he is the one who still messes up with Behemoth shows. Plus, just recently another club in Poland decided to cancel their shows due to Nergal's beliefs. So, all and all, I'm just sorry for guys who have to fight for their own freedom and their music. Sometimes it's just a path with many curves and unbelievable obstacles


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## Jakke (Oct 24, 2011)

Crank said:


> this thread reminded of something. I don't know if you're familiar with band called Behemoth. Well, from time to time they have some problems in few venues in Poland. It's all due to Nergal's (band's leader) stage expressions and speeches as well as due to his personal beliefs (or rather not believing in Christian God). Nergal had few court appearances and he won all the fights, yet there are people who are still on his tail. The most notorious man, who is a head of Sect Fighter Ministry (or whatever that due calls that piece of crap), Mr Nowak, used to make a list of the most evil bands and his main target has been to cancel their shows and ban them from media. Well, the list has been published and after that almost every single metal band wanted to sign in to the list. It was a farce, yet he is the one who still messes up with Behemoth shows. Plus, just recently another club in Poland decided to cancel their shows due to Nergal's beliefs. So, all and all, I'm just sorry for guys who have to fight for their own freedom and their music. Sometimes it's just a path with many curves and unbelievable obstacles



If you like Behemoth you're in the right place! We all held our thumbs for him when he was in court


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## Dvaienat (Oct 24, 2011)

The way I see it is that it is no one's right to silence or censor anything unless it is causing harm to them or others in society. If you don't like it or it offends your religious faith, look the other way. I have to do this plenty in my life, so I feel that churches should do the same.


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## Crank (Oct 24, 2011)

Jakke said:


> If you like Behemoth you're in the right place! We all held our thumbs for him when he was in court



Cool! I was at Behemoth gig last week and knowing Nergal personally makes me really sad to hear about his problems with some psychos.


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## Jakke (Oct 24, 2011)

Crank said:


> Cool! I was at Behemoth gig last week and knowing Nergal personally makes me really sad to hear about his problems with some psychos.



Yeah, he's such a cool guy, he really does not deserve all the crap that's coming to him. I'm gonna try and see them here in Sweden in february, if money and time allows


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## skeels (Oct 24, 2011)

No...... dancing? 
.......Dancing?
in public?


No dancing?


Seriously?

You MUST be kidding me.....
You've got to be kidding me........




Dancing.......?


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## tacotiklah (Oct 24, 2011)

No joke dude. The ban includes juggling in public and reading in public. If THAT doesnt reek of teabaggery, I dont know what does.....


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## Varcolac (Oct 25, 2011)

I thought they called Jesus the "Lord of the Dance." Or was that Michael Flatley? Whichever. Moonwalk in public. Get arrested. Call ACLU. Reclaim your life, liberty and the pursuit of disco dancing.

It's been a while since I read the Declaration of Independence. Disco dancing's in there, right?


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## Soubi7string (Oct 25, 2011)

I posted a rather long statement on there


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## DaveFSJ (Oct 25, 2011)

Fuck em all! I keep to my business, why can't they keep to theirs!


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## Grand Moff Tim (Oct 25, 2011)

Varcolac said:


> I thought they called Jesus the "Lord of the Dance." Or was that Michael Flatley?


 
Definitely Jesus.


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## tacotiklah (Oct 25, 2011)

My recent post on there:


*Adam AJ MacArthur* &#8206;"Mr. Huffaker has been a purposefully driven instiagator. He's been snide, disrespectful, down right arrogant, and lately even libelous against a Pastor -- that he's never met -- that blows us away. Yet, we are still willing to meet with h...im to discuss this matter."

Nah, I've just been showing this story to every musician I can find on the internet. (my last band put me in charge of promotion for a reason)

Don't blame Tully for my doings. I want the whole world (and yes there have been posts on here from people as far away as Europe and Sweden) to see what you guys are about. I have no need to be libelous because your own words are enough to show people whats up.

Your own 'us vs. them' attitudes along with a refusal to have an open mind to anything are what has a great many people up in arms. Had you guys embraced this venue as another form of expanding your ministry, you guys would have won many souls for Christ. Instead you opened a large schism that has further divided people from Him. Have that on your conscience.....




Check, and mate......


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## Jakke (Oct 25, 2011)

ghstofperdition said:


> My recent post on there:
> 
> 
> *Adam AJ MacArthur* &#8206;"Mr. Huffaker has been a purposefully driven instiagator. He's been snide, disrespectful, down right arrogant, and lately even libelous against a Pastor -- that he's never met -- that blows us away. Yet, we are still willing to meet with h...im to discuss this matter."
> ...



Yeah, You should know you have viking support

A very well structured and polite letter, you have everything to win on that one, many internets to you sir


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## tacotiklah (Oct 25, 2011)

Jakke said:


> Yeah, You should know you have viking support
> 
> A very well structured and polite letter, you have everything to win on that one, many internets to you sir


 

Vikings vs. Christians? Dear god, this could get messy.......


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## Jakke (Oct 25, 2011)

ghstofperdition said:


> Vikings vs. Christians? Dear god, this could get messy.......



Yes.... *For them...*


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## vampiregenocide (Oct 25, 2011)

Guitarman700 said:


> That's mainstream Western society for you. They feel entitled to everything under the sun.



Fixed.


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## tacotiklah (Oct 25, 2011)

Jakke said:


> Yes.... *For them...*


 

You underestimate the power of psychotic fanaticism. Has 9/11 taught you nothing? 

Bloodthirsty vikings vs. religious crazies. Yeah, that's a real bloodbath....


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## Jakke (Oct 25, 2011)

ghstofperdition said:


> You underestimate the power of psychotic fanaticism. Has 9/11 taught you nothing?
> 
> Bloodthirsty vikings vs. religious crazies. Yeah, that's a real bloodbath....



A good point, the outcome is unsure indeed..


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## daemon barbeque (Oct 25, 2011)

Jakke said:


> A good point, the outcome is unsure indeed..



?
Check your Flag(s)  The Religious Zaelots won already long time ago hhahaha


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## Jakke (Oct 25, 2011)

daemon barbeque said:


> ?
> Check your Flag(s)  The Religious Zaelots won already long time ago hhahaha



Ah, but we are only lulling them into a sense of false security.


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## Grand Moff Tim (Oct 26, 2011)

ghstofperdition said:


> Don't blame Tully for my doings. I want the whole world (and yes there have been posts on here from people as far away as Europe and Sweden) to see what you guys are about. I have no need to be libelous because your own words are enough to show people whats up.


 
Dang, Europe _and_ Sweden?


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## Stealthdjentstic (Oct 26, 2011)

No reading OR.juggling? BASTARDDDDSS!!!


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## daemon barbeque (Oct 26, 2011)

Jakke said:


> Ah, but we are only lulling them into a sense of false security.


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## Edika (Oct 26, 2011)

So why reading in public is prohibited? Well I know why, aside from the fact that impartial knowledge may steer the mind away from the narrow path religions guide you, it is also indecent to show any short of intellectual prowess in front of mentally challenged individuals. It is just non politically correct and tacky!
Also does that include the (or their) bible?


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## vampiregenocide (Oct 26, 2011)

I'll be honest this sounds like a really horrible place. I couldn't live there.


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## tacotiklah (Oct 27, 2011)

I feel the same way, but I'm stuck here. I'd rather move to a more liberal minded area, like hollywood.


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## Konfyouzd (Oct 27, 2011)

^ How old are you? Stick it out as long as you have to and bounce.


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## tacotiklah (Oct 27, 2011)

Konfyouzd said:


> ^ How old are you? Stick it out as long as you have to and bounce.


 

I'm 26 and a full-time college student. So yeah, moving isn't an option at the moment.


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## tacotiklah (Oct 27, 2011)

Here's Ordinance 966 as you guys requested:




​ORDINANCE NO. 966 
AN ORDINANCE OF THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF LANCASTER, CALIFORNIA, ADDING CHAPTER 5.52 TO THE LANCASTER MUNICIPAL CODE RELATING TO STREET PERFORMERS 
WHEREAS, a city "may make and enforce within its limits all local, police, sanitary, and other ordinances and regulations not in conflict with general laws" (Cal. Const., art. XI § 7); and 
WHEREAS, "[t]he legislative body of an incorporated city may, in the exercise of its police power, and for the purpose of regulation  license any kind of business not prohibited by law transacted and carried on within the limits of its jurisdiction" (Cal. Bus. & Prof. Code § 16000(a)); and 
WHEREAS, pursuant to the foregoing authority, the City of Lancaster has determined that it is in the public interest and welfare to add Chapter 5.52 to the Lancaster Municipal Code in order to establish regulations that regulate street performers within the City. 
NOW, THEREFORE, THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF LANCASTER DOES ORDAIN AS FOLLOWS: 
Section 1. Chapter 5.52 ("Street Performers") is hereby added to the Lancaster Municipal Code to read as set forth in Exhibit "A" attached hereto and incorporated herein by reference. 
Section 2. If any section, subsection, sentence, clause, phrase or portion of this Ordinance, including Exhibit "A", is held for any reason to be invalid or unconstitutional by the decision of any court of competent jurisdiction, such decision shall not affect the validity of the remaining portions of this Ordinance. The City Council of the City of Lancaster hereby declares that it would have adopted this Ordinance and each section, subsection, sentence, clause, phrase or portion thereof, irrespective of the fact that any one or more sections, subsections, sentences, clauses, phrases or portions be declared invalid or unconstitutional. 
Section 3. The Mayor shall sign and the City Clerk shall certify to the passage and adoption of this Ordinance and shall cause the same to be published and posted pursuant to the provisions of law in that regard and this Ordinance shall take effect 30 days after its final passage.Ordinance 966 Page 2 
I, Geri K. Bryan, CMC, City Clerk of the City of Lancaster, do hereby certify that the foregoing ordinance was regularly introduced and placed upon its first reading on the 14th day of June, 2011, and placed upon its second reading and adopted at a regular meeting of the City Council on the _____ day of __________, 2011 by the vote: 
AYES: 
NOES: 
ABSTAIN: 
ABSENT: 
ATTEST: APPROVED: 
GERI K. BRYAN, CMC R. REX PARRIS 
City Clerk Mayor 
City of Lancaster City of Lancaster 
STATE OF CALIFORNIA ) 
COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES ) ss 
CITY OF LANCASTER ) 
CERTIFICATION OF ORDINANCE 
CITY COUNCIL 
I, __________________________, ____________________________________ City of Lancaster, California, do hereby certify that this is a true and correct copy of the original Ordinance No. 966, for which the original is on file in my office. 
WITNESS MY HAND AND THE SEAL OF THE CITY OF LANCASTER, on this _________ day of ________________, ________. 
____________________________________ 
(seal)Ordinance 966 Page 3 
*[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]EXHIBIT "A" 
CHAPTER 5.52 
STREET PERFORMERS 
Sections: 
5.52.010 Purpose. 
5.52.020 Definitions. 
5.52.030 Performance permit required. 
5.52.040 Application for performance permit. 
5.52.050 Performance permit issuance and denial. 
5.52.060 Term of performance permit. 
5.52.070 Performance permit terms, conditions and requirements. 
5.52.080 Fees for performance permit. 
5.52.090 Designated performance zone. 
5.52.100 Revocation of performance permit. 
5.52.110 Appeal. 
5.52.120 Violation and penalty. 
5.52.130 Severability. 
5.52.010 Purpose. 
*[/FONT][/FONT]The city council finds that the existence in the city of street performers provides a public amenity that enhances the character of the city and seeks to encourage such performances to the extent that they do not interfere with the reasonable expectations of residents to the enjoyment of peace and quiet in their homes or the ability of businesses to operate and conduct their businesses uninterrupted. This chapter seeks to balance the interests of performers with the residents and businesses of the city by imposing reasonable time, place and manner restrictions on street performers to the extent necessary in order to ensure the safety of performers, their audience, and the general public and to prevent unreasonable interference with residents enjoyment of peace and quiet in their homes or the ability of businesses to operate and conduct their business. 
*[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]5.52.020 Definitions. 
*[/FONT][/FONT]Except as otherwise expressly set forth herein, the following words and terms as used in this chapter shall have the following meanings: 
"City" means the City of Lancaster. 
"City manager" means the city manager of the city or his or her duly authorized representative. 
"Designated performance zone" means the area(s) or zone(s) within the city designated by resolution of the City Council as constituting a "designated performance zone" for purposes of this chapter. 
"Perform", "performance" and/or "performing" includes, but is not limited to, the following activities: acting, singing, playing one or more musical instrument, Ordinance 966 Page 4 
pantomiming, juggling, performing magic, dancing, reading, puppeteering and/or reciting. "Perform" shall not include the production of items for sale. 
"Performance permit" means a performance permit issued by the city to a performer pursuant to this chapter. 
"Performer" means a person who has obtained a permit pursuant to this chapter. 
"Public area" means a public sidewalk, parkway, and/or all other public spaces located in the city. 
*[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]5.52.030 Performance permit required. 
*[/FONT][/FONT]No person may perform in a public area without a performance permit. 
*[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]5.52.040 Application for performance permit. 
*[/FONT][/FONT]A. An application for a performance permit shall be submitted to the city manager by and in the name of each person proposing to perform in a public area and shall be signed by the applicant under penalty of perjury. A performance permit issued contrary to this chapter, or contrary to any other law, or on the basis of false or misleading information supplied by an applicant, or due to omission of a material fact, shall be revoked pursuant to Section 5.52.100 of this chapter. Nothing in this chapter shall be construed to vest in any person obtaining and maintaining a performance permit any status or right to perform in contravention of any provision of law. 
B. All applications pursuant to this section shall be submitted on a form supplied by the city manager. The application shall include the applicants name, applicants address, proof of the applicants identity (such as a photocopy of the applicants drivers license, identification card, passport or other form of identification approved by the city that contains a photograph of the applicant), a detailed description of the nature of the acts that applicant will perform (including the instrument(s) or prop(s) that will be used), a true and correct photocopy of the applicants sellers permit issued by the California State Board of Equalization (in order for the applicant to sell recordings of his or her own work pursuant to Section 5.52.070(S)) and any other information the city manager determines is necessary to administer and enforce this chapter. In addition to the foregoing, an application submitted by a minor must include a copy of the entertainment work permit issued to the minor by the Department of Industrial Relations of the State of California and shall identify the responsible adult(s) who will be with the minor at all times that the minor is performing. 
*[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]5.52.050 Performance permit issuance and denial. 
*[/FONT][/FONT]A. Within ten (10) days of receipt of an application for a performance permit and the required fee, the city manager shall issue a performance permit unless substantial record evidence demonstrates one of the following bases for denial: 
1. The application is incomplete or inaccurate; or 
2. The application seeks a performance permit for a person who has had a performance permit revoked pursuant to this chapter; or Ordinance 966 Page 5 
3. The application seeks a performance permit for a type of performance that is unlawful pursuant to any section of this chapter; or 
4. The application seeks a performance permit for a type of performance that is unlawful pursuant to any state or federal law. 
B. The permit issued pursuant to this chapter shall state on its face such information as shall be determined by the city manager. 
*[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]5.52.060 Term of performance permit. 
*[/FONT][/FONT]A performance permit shall be valid for a period of one year from the date it is issued. 
*[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]5.52.070 Performance permit terms, conditions and requirements. 
*[/FONT][/FONT]All performance permits issued pursuant to this chapter shall be subject to, and all performers shall comply with, the following terms, conditions and requirements: 
A. A performer may not perform in any of the following locations: 
1. Within ten feet of any bus stop; 
2. Within ten feet of any street corner or marked pedestrian crosswalk; 
3. Within ten feet of the outer edge of an entrance to any business, including, but not limited to, doors, vestibules, driveways, outdoor dining entries, and/or emergency exits, during the hours that such business is open to the public or to persons having or conducting lawful business; 
4. Outside a designated performance zone. 
B. A performer may perform only within a designated performance zone. 
C. A performer may perform only during the following times: 
1. Mondays through Thursdays, between 9:00 a.m. and 10:00 p.m.; 
2. Fridays and Saturdays, between 9:00 a.m. and 12:00 midnight; and 
3. Sundays, between 12:00 noon and 10:00 p.m. 
Notwithstanding the foregoing, the city manager may designate certain days and/or times during which no performer may perform within a designated performance zone or within any portion of a designated performance zone. 
D. A performer may perform in one location for up to two (2) hours, after which time such performer shall move to a different location that is at least five (5) storefronts or one hundred-fifty (150) feet (whichever is farther) from the previous location. 
E. A performer may not block or obstruct the free and safe movement of pedestrians. If a sufficient crowd gathers to observe a performer such that the passage of the public through a public area is blocked or obstructed, a peace officer, code enforcement officer employed by the city and/or a business license enforcement officer Ordinance 966 Page 6 
employed by the city may disburse that portion of the crowd that is blocking or obstructing the passage of the public. If a performer cannot perform in a location without blocking or obstructing the passage of the public, a peace officer, code enforcement officer employed by the city and/or a business license enforcement officer employed by the city may cause such performer to leave such location or require that such performer relocate, but shall not prevent such performer from occupying another location in compliance with this chapter. 
F. A performer may not construct, erect or maintain any stage, platform, or similar structure. 
G. A performer may not use any knife, sword, torch, flame, axe, saw or other object that can cause serious bodily injury to any person, or engage in any activity, including, but not limited to, acrobatics, tumbling, or cycling, that can cause serious bodily injury to any person. 
H. A performer may not use any generator, wet cell battery with removable fill caps, or any other power source that poses a fire or public safety hazard. A performer may not connect or maintain an electrical cord to an adjacent building or to a city power source. 
I. A performer may not litter his or her performance site. 
J. A performer may not utilize during his or her performance or prevent the public from utilizing any public bench or waste receptacle. 
K. A performer may not place any object on a public sidewalk that causes less than a four-foot contiguous sidewalk width being kept clear for pedestrian passage. 
L. A performer may not perform with more instruments, props, equipment, merchandise, or other items than such performer can reasonably transport or remove at one time. 
M. A performer may not place his or her instruments, props, equipment, merchandise, or other items on a public sidewalk, public street, or public right-of-way for more than two hours without performing in accordance with this chapter. 
N. A performer may not leave his or her instruments, props, equipment, merchandise, or other items unattended. 
O. A performer may not block or obstruct a curb cut. 
P. A performer or group of performers may not perform within one hundred feet of another performer or group of performers. 
Q. A performer may not generate noise or sound that is audible at a distance of more than fifty (50) feet from such performers performance site or that violates the provisions of Chapter 8.24 of this code. 
R. A performer may perform for donations, subject to the provisions of Chapter 9.36 of this code. 
S. A performer may offer for sale recordings of his or her own work in the form of records, cassettes, videotapes, compact disks, or digital versatile disk, without the Ordinance 966 Page 7 
need for a general business license issued pursuant to Chapter 5.04 of this code, provided that the performer submitted to the city with his or her application for a performers permit a true and correct copy of his or her sellers permit issued by the California State Board of Equalization. 
T. A performer shall clearly display his or her performance permit while performing, and shall allow inspection of such permit upon request by any peace officer or city official. 
*[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]5.52.080 Fees for performance permit. 
*[/FONT][/FONT]The city council shall establish by resolution, and from time to time may amend, the fees for the administration of this chapter. Fees required by this chapter shall be in addition to any required under any other chapter of this code. 
*[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]5.52.090 Designated performance zone. 
*[/FONT][/FONT]The city council shall designate by resolution, and from time to time may amend, the areas within the city that constitute a designated performance zone. 
*[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]5.52.100 Revocation of performance permit. 
*[/FONT][/FONT]The city manager shall revoke a performance permit, in addition to any other basis provided by this code, upon determination that any of the following conditions exist: 
A. A performer has failed to perform in accordance with this chapter and has violated one or more of the provisions of this chapter on two or more separate occasions. For purposes of the preceding sentence, the term "on two or more separate occasions" shall mean on two or more separate days; 
B. A performer made a material false, misleading, or fraudulent statement or omission of fact to the city, or engaged in fraud, in the application for performance permit; 
C. A performer has violated any federal, state or local law, regulation or ordinance while engaged in a performance pursuant to a permit issued under this chapter. 
*[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]5.52.110 Appeal. 
*[/FONT][/FONT]If any person is aggrieved by a decision of the city manager regarding the issuance, denial or revocation of a performance permit, such person may appeal the decision by submitting a notice of appeal in accordance with the uniform appeal procedure set forth in Chapter 2.44 of this code. 
*[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]5.52.120 Violation and penalty. 
*[/FONT][/FONT]A. Violations of this chapter shall constitute a misdemeanor and shall be punishable in the manner provided in Section 1.12.020(A) of this code. 
B. Any violation of this chapter shall be and the same is declared to be unlawful and a public nuisance. The city attorney or the district attorney may, in addition to or in lieu of prosecution in a criminal action hereunder, commence an action or Ordinance 966 Page 8 
actions, proceeding or proceedings for the abatement, removal and enjoinment thereof, in the manner provided by law, and shall take such other steps, and shall apply to such other courts or court as may have jurisdiction to grant such relief as will abate or remove such public nuisance and restrain and enjoin any person from violating the provisions of this chapter.
C. For failure to pay a permit fee when due, the finance director shall add a penalty of twenty percent (20%) of the permit fee on the first date of the month following the due date and ten percent (10%) each month thereafter while the fee remains unpaid, provided that the amount of the penalty shall not exceed fifty percent (50%) of the amount of the permit fee due. 
D. If a performer fails to obtain a performance permit, the permit fee due shall be that amount due and payable from the date of the performers first performance, together with the penalty described in subsection C of this section. 
E. The remedies provided by this chapter are cumulative and in addition to any other remedies available at law or in equity. 
*[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]5.52.130 Severability. 
*[/FONT][/FONT]If any part or provision of this chapter is found to be invalid or unenforceable by a court of law, such invalidity shall not affect any other part or provision herein, and all remaining provisions of this chapter will be valid and enforceable to the fullest extent permitted by law.


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## Grand Moff Tim (Oct 27, 2011)

Nothing there would keep a band from performing at a venue. Seems to me the problem is more about the lack of venues and/or whatever's keeping venues from opening than that particular ordinance keeping people from performing. I do think the ordinance is silly, of course, because I'm a fan of buskers. They make towns and cities more interesting.


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## Explorer (Oct 28, 2011)

That ordinance takes a sledgehammer approach to certain forms of free expression, labeling them as "performing" rather than seeking to define "busking." That expanded definition, and its limiting of protected free expression activities, don't seem to have a compelling reason to counterbalance its limits upon Constitutional freedoms.

So... has anyone gone on to challenge this? All it takes is one person reading at a bus stop, and the police refusing to act, to show unequal enforcement. Similarly, someone singing with friends *must* be charged, or it's selective enforcement. 

There are so many ways to force a court challenge to this, and it will cost the city millions. That will get the legislators out of office, when people realize how much this half baked idea is costing them in terms of tax revenue which could have been spent instead on city services. 

I've got no dog in this fight, and no reason to invest a lot of effort in posting on that page, but if anyone is so inclined, be sure to mention those points on the page. A lack of compelling public interest when trying to outlaw Constitutionally protected activities is going to cost a bundle, which is not being fiscally responsible. That should point out where it stopped being about saving money and smaller government, and instead about suppressing freedom of religion and speech.

Good luck!


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## rectifryer (Oct 28, 2011)

A Christian debate over Halloween: Counter, co-opt, or embrace it? &#8211; CNN Belief Blog - CNN.com Blogs


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## AxeHappy (Oct 28, 2011)

What they don't seem to realise is Halloween is the Christian co-opt of Samhain. Making their entire argument moot.

That said if I go on a rant about how what Halloween has turned into I'll drive this thread stupidly off topic and the mods have been banning people for that recently so I won't.
*
*


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## rectifryer (Oct 28, 2011)

Exactly, I thought it was inline with the general trend of churches trying to control things at a municipal level. That shit needs to stop.


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## AxeHappy (Oct 28, 2011)

I can't say I've actually had much experience with it thankfully, as I whole-hearedly agree. 

Keep God out of my house and I'll stay out of his. Your God starts fucking with my shit and I'll fuck back.


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## Stealthtastic (Oct 30, 2011)

Fuck, the damn religious leaders need to learn that not everyone fits into their candy-coated perfect society of whats right and wrong. Not to stereo type a person on the music they play or love. Not to look at a person who has tattoos or peircings and assume they are demonic ass holes. Not to look at a person smoking or drinking and assume they will commit a murder "on the influence" or some stupid shit along those lines. Hopefully one day, those idiotic people's ways will be overlooked, and we will be able to live our lives the way we want to without some hypocrite with his head shoved up his ass trying to ruin it, or put us down for who we fucking are.......


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## Stealthtastic (Oct 30, 2011)

ghstofperdition said:


> So for those that aren't in the know of what's going on out here:
> Basically my town has gotten a case of the Tea Party fever the last couple of years, the mayor has managed to pass a city ordinance banning public performances (without a permit, in which they put a ton of red tape for those trying to get one) and the war on the local music scene has led to EVERY venue being shut down so that we have nowhere to play. After MONTHS of fighting, we find a place to play that fits within all of the cities' requirements, has a permit, and can accomodate loud music. Then this is going on:
> Log In | Facebook
> 
> ...


 
I am fully with you bro.... I'd throw a fit to whoever ends up in charge in whatever the hell happens..........

Seriously, where are our rights we were promised in the CONSTITUTION???


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## tacotiklah (Nov 2, 2011)

Just noticed that they haven't responded on that f/b page to my last retort. Seems they wised up after learning that the whole world is watching. 





To my mysterious, tea-party loving neg repper:


*"Perform", "performance" and/or "performing" includes, but is not limited to, the following activities: acting, singing, playing one or more musical instrument, Ordinance 966 Page 4 *
*pantomiming, juggling, performing magic, dancing, reading, puppeteering and/or reciting. "Perform" shall not include the production of items for sale.*




Reading comprehension is your friend. 
Oh and yes, R. Rex Parris (mayor) IS a member of the tea party, and he was the one spearheading this ordinance. Maybe reading things first, and THEN deciding whether or not to click that rep button would lead to less butt-hurtedness.


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## Explorer (Nov 2, 2011)

@GoP - Equalizer given, friend. It's a shame when someone doesn't read thoroughly, or can't articulate a decent argument, and so just lashes out.


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## Mordacain (Nov 2, 2011)

ghstofperdition said:


> Reading comprehension is your friend.
> Oh and yes, R. Rex Parris (mayor) IS a member of the tea party, and he was the one spearheading this ordinance. Maybe reading things first, and THEN deciding whether or not to click that rep button would lead to less butt-hurtedness.



 I'm calling owned for you there, great post!


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## Hemi-Powered Drone (Nov 9, 2011)

This quote pretty much explains what I think the reasoning for this is.


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## Hemi-Powered Drone (Nov 9, 2011)

Weird double post.


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## ElRay (Nov 9, 2011)

Lancaster, CA? 2nd home to Frank Zappa. The town that wouldn't let his racially-integraded R&B band play at schools, churches, etc.? That's why all of this is happening, they don't want a second coming. 

Ray


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## AxeHappy (Nov 9, 2011)

dragonblade629 said:


> This quote pretty much explains what I think the reasoning for this is.



I can not like you or rep you enough for this post. I have done both.


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## tacotiklah (Nov 12, 2011)

ElRay said:


> Lancaster, CA? 2nd home to Frank Zappa. The town that wouldn't let his racially-integraded R&B band play at schools, churches, etc.? That's why all of this is happening, they don't want a second coming.
> 
> Ray



AHA! A man that knows what's up!


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## tacotiklah (Nov 13, 2011)

That church released a statement:
_NEW LIFE Community Church would like to state our position on this matter. Pastor Marsh and the church leadership are not trying to stop Industry Theater from providing a concert/nightclub venue in the Antelope Valley. We do oppose waiving the Lancaster alcohol ordinance preventing the sale and consumption of beer and wine within 300 feet of our church. _

_In fact, if Industry Theatre was planning to provide a music venue without the sale and consumption of alcohol, NEW LIFE Community Church would not be opposed to their location within 300 feet of our sanctuary. In fact, we might have considered renting the venue ourselves for special events. To our knowledge, Mr. Huffaker has never tried to meet with Pastor Marsh or NEW LIFE Community Church leadership -- our first communication with him was at the Planning Commission meeting on October 17, 2011._

_Pastor Marsh LOVES young people and how they develop as adults. Our church is a very active place for young people. He is not against entertainment or young people having a good time, so long as the good time does not conflict with Biblical teachings and promotes a healthy lifestyle. He is not opposed to music or any form of wholesome entertainment._

_*For the record, please understand what NEW LIFE is not:*_
_ - We are not a political organization_
_ - We are not against entertainment_
_ - We are not against Mr. Tully Huffaker_

_As you can see on our FaceBook page, we are a church that works diligently to serve the community. We are more than just a Sunday and Wednesday church. We serve people from all backgrounds all week, to help them and provide solace from the burdens of the world. Our congregation consists of numerous groups that would be in added danger in the parking lot during overlapping Industry Theater hours of operation._

_* Just to put a fine point on who attends NEW LIFE:*_
_ - Families with young children_
_ - Elderly_
_ - Physically challenged in a wheel chair_
_ - Hearing impaired_
_ - Teens/ young adults_

_Historically, with the exception of restuarants, environments where alcohol is sold/served in conjunction with entertainment, are wrought with socially hazardous and negative behaviors, such as drunkenness, drug use, foul language, public sexual exploits, loud disruptive activities, etc._

_Recent LA County headlines concerning sporting event tragedies and rave parties for teens should give us all pause when considering entertainment venues with alcohol. Add to that, the volume of entertainment venues nationally that are removing alcohol from their premises because of the very issues we are raising now._

_Lastly, NEW LIFE is not conducting a crusade against nightclubs or music venues. Pastor Marsh simply seeks to serve the community as a Christian church, defending our right to worship in a safe God conscious environment -- from the parking lot to the pulpit. Industry Theater&#8217;s alcohol goals are just not a good fit in its current proposed location._

_May God bless everyone who read this._


Seems your guys' comments forced them to become a lot more formal.....


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## Jakke (Nov 13, 2011)

^"Bless me"? Screw that...

Well, buhu, they are doing so _much_ and everyone is just against them! 

It's nice they do all that, but bringing it up is just dishonouring, it seems like they see it as an opportunity to win sympathy-points, and I frankly hate that kind of sentimental tactic.

Have they any proof of what happens at these venues when the alcohol devil is served, or is it just common knowledge among the sheep of the congregation?


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## Mysticlamp (Nov 15, 2011)

then they should host the shows at the church


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## Hemi-Powered Drone (Nov 15, 2011)

I'm not totally sure, but I believe all the problems they may be referring to happen at after parties, never at the event itself.


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## Sephael (Nov 17, 2011)

How does he relate "rave parties for teens" to alcohol sale to adults?


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## Konfyouzd (Nov 17, 2011)

Sephael said:


> How does he relate "rave parties for teens" to alcohol sale to adults?


 
Bc he's stupid.


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## highlordmugfug (Nov 18, 2011)

Sephael said:


> How does he relate "rave parties for teens" to alcohol sale to adults?



Because idiots like him think any drug = crazy/party/sex/teenagers/death/masturbation/evil/satan/monster. And why, you ask?



Konfyouzd said:


> Bc he's stupid.


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## Sephael (Nov 18, 2011)

highlordmugfug said:


> Because idiots like him think any drug = crazy/party/sex/teenagers/death/masturbation/evil/satan/monster. And why, you ask?


so they are not into onanism


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## tacotiklah (Nov 23, 2011)

Another update. Went to the City Council Planning Commission meeting regarding whether or not the venue can open. Thanks to you guys and everyone that commented, the church withdrew it's petition and the council voted 5-0 to open up the venue. I cannot thank you guys enough!


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## Explorer (Nov 23, 2011)

And +1 to your rep for going to the meeting!


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## Jakke (Nov 23, 2011)

ghstofperdition said:


> Another update. Went to the City Council Planning Commission meeting regarding whether or not the venue can open. Thanks to you guys and everyone that commented, the church withdrew it's petition and the council voted 5-0 to open up the venue. I cannot thank you guys enough!



Hell holds no greater fury than a musician scorned.. And now they know that


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## highlordmugfug (Nov 23, 2011)




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## BigBaldIan (Nov 24, 2011)

ghstofperdition said:


> Another update. Went to the City Council Planning Commission meeting regarding whether or not the venue can open. Thanks to you guys and everyone that commented, the church withdrew it's petition and the council voted 5-0 to open up the venue. I cannot thank you guys enough!


 
Just goes to show what can happen if you motivate enough people.


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## Konfyouzd (Nov 24, 2011)




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## FireInside (Nov 24, 2011)

ghstofperdition said:


> Another update. Went to the City Council Planning Commission meeting regarding whether or not the venue can open. Thanks to you guys and everyone that commented, the church withdrew it's petition and the council voted 5-0 to open up the venue. I cannot thank you guys enough!



Glad to hear it man. Back when I was actually doing shows my band used to play Lancaster/Palmdale all the time. I saw some amazing shows at El Dorado & Mr. Q's. AV used to have one hell of a hardcore scene.


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## tacotiklah (Nov 25, 2011)

FireInside said:


> Glad to hear it man. Back when I was actually doing shows my band used to play Lancaster/Palmdale all the time. I saw some amazing shows at El Dorado & Mr. Q's. AV used to have one hell of a hardcore scene.




Yeah, Mr. Q's got closed due to fights and El Dorado doesn't do too many shows these days. Plus Lancaster has become kinda puritanical, and has been crapping on musicians lately due to a few kids getting drunk and stupid at shows. Now we have the industry theater, and the cedar center is having thursday open mic night again. HAP still won't book local bands there though. 

And yeah, if your city starts crapping on musicians, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!!!!! Go to the meetings and tell 'em exactly how you feel. Bring a fuckton of people with you too.





Oh and












REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, 
REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP,
REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP,
REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP,
REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP,
REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP,
REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP,
REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP,
REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP,
REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP,
REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP,
REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP,
REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP,
REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP,
REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP,
REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP, REP,


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## The Buttmonkey (Dec 9, 2011)

SO IS THE POWER OF METAL!!!!

I guess.

And democracy.


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