# Gibson buys Mesa Boogie?!



## lewis (Jan 5, 2021)

Unbelievable scenes.
Apparently confirmed - update - heavy rumour at this stage
Edit: not full buyout but mutual partnership

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10157392766371607&id=544241606&sfnsn=scwspmo

Fluff talking about it?


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 5, 2021)




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## lewis (Jan 5, 2021)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


>


This would be mental if true.

Really don't know what to make of this


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## SpaceDock (Jan 5, 2021)




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## thebeesknees22 (Jan 5, 2021)

whoa! That's crazy if true.


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## Spinedriver (Jan 5, 2021)

It means that if Gibson has anything to say about it, Boogie prices are about to skyrocket and the QC to take a bit of a hit.


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## lewis (Jan 5, 2021)

Spinedriver said:


> It means that if Gibson has anything to say about it, Boogie prices are about to skyrocket and the QC to take a bit of a hit.


The biggest concern to take from this.

RIP Mesa?


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## MaxOfMetal (Jan 5, 2021)

Spinedriver said:


> It means that if Gibson has anything to say about it, Boogie prices are about to skyrocket and the QC to take a bit of a hit.


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## Mathemagician (Jan 5, 2021)

More likely IMO? They work to introduce a lower-priced line of MIC amps and use Gibson’s leverage to demand more floor space for Mesa products. Like an Epiphone “lower price/higher volume” line. May or my not use the Mesa branding.

But wasn’t Gibson’s whole issue that they spent tons of money buying more and more brands so the CEO could justify his pay?

The partnership def makes more sense than a full buyout.


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## KnightBrolaire (Jan 5, 2021)

Mesa's whole brand cache is based on their excellent qc and the fact that they're still made in the USA imo.
I wonder if they're partnering with gibson just to get better international distribution/sales.


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## John (Jan 5, 2021)

If so, that doesn't bode well. Perhaps now would be a good time to get a Badlander before the QC takes a massive hit (ie- heads breaking in half, or falling off cabs, or whatever else).


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## Spinedriver (Jan 5, 2021)

Mathemagician said:


> More likely IMO? They work to introduce a lower-priced line of MIC amps and use Gibson’s leverage to demand more floor space for Mesa products. Like an Epiphone “lower price/higher volume” line. May or my not use the Mesa branding.
> 
> But wasn’t Gibson’s whole issue that they spent tons of money buying more and more brands so the CEO could justify his pay?
> 
> The partnership def makes more sense than a full buyout.



It would be nice to see some more 'affordable' options out there that aren't "modelling" amps. It seems that around here the only amp heads you can get for less than $1,000 are either less than 10 watt lunchbox amps or a modelling head like the L6 Spider or Fender Mustang. So if Gibson/Mesa could collaborate on a more 'affordable' type head like like the Peavey Valveking was (or similar) than that would be pretty sweet.


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## eggy in a bready (Jan 5, 2021)

this is my personal 9/11


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 5, 2021)

I'm vibing on this so hard right now.


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## JD27 (Jan 5, 2021)

And people said 2020 was the worst year ever!


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## Accoun (Jan 5, 2021)

eggy in a bready said:


> this is my personal 9/11



Is it an inside job?


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 5, 2021)

Accoun said:


> Is it an inside job?


HA!!!!


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## NosralTserrof (Jan 5, 2021)

sick, can't wait to say how my tremoverb automatically sounds better because it's "pre-gibson" 

I thought Gibson was in financial trouble as of recent?


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## Samark (Jan 5, 2021)

"_For Sale: Mesa Boogie MkV (Pre Gibson!)
Price: $10,000
No trades unless Keezel Aireez
I know what I have so no low ball offers. 
Can buy a silly new Gibson Mesa with poor QC but these are the real deal!1!1!!111_"


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## gunch (Jan 5, 2021)

idk it might just be a distribution thing like ESP/ENGL


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## Werecow (Jan 5, 2021)

John said:


> If so, that doesn't bode well. Perhaps now would be a good time to get a Badlander before the QC takes a massive hit (ie- heads breaking in half, or falling off cabs, or whatever else).



First batch of amps won't stay in tune for longer than one song, and the handles snap off when you pick them up.


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## DaZoner (Jan 5, 2021)

This sucks.... Hard. Hopefully when the details come out it'll be ok.

Nah, who am I kidding. This sucks bad. Nothing good can come from this.


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## DaZoner (Jan 5, 2021)

I guess the old man at Mesa wants to retire. A company like Mesa is worth a lot of $$$. I wonder if he tried to sell to other people first.


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## c7spheres (Jan 5, 2021)

This belongs in the conspiracy thread!


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## BenjaminW (Jan 5, 2021)

I'll just say what the fuck whether or not this is real.

I don't really see the point in buying Mesa Boogie though if you're Gibson.


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## Avedas (Jan 5, 2021)

If it's just a distribution thing, maybe that means slightly less overpriced Boogies outside the US?


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## Seabeast2000 (Jan 5, 2021)

Avedas said:


> If it's just a distribution thing, maybe that means slightly less overpriced Boogies outside the US?


This makes the most sense to my unknowledgable self.


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## FTB (Jan 5, 2021)

Companies like Gibson don't spend millions just to distribute the same quality product to you at a _lower_ price. If the price lowers, something else along the line has also lowered.


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## MYGFH (Jan 5, 2021)

This will not end well.


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## Avedas (Jan 6, 2021)

FTB said:


> Companies like Gibson don't spend millions just to distribute the same quality product to you at a _lower_ price. If the price lowers, something else along the line has also lowered.


There are many, many, many ways Gibson could increase their bottom line from this move while simultaneously lowering cost to end users.


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## fps (Jan 6, 2021)

Avedas said:


> If it's just a distribution thing, maybe that means slightly less overpriced Boogies outside the US?



According to Andertons, Mesa Boogie recently jettisoned their distributors, in a way which meant Andertons could immediately and substantially cut prices. Can’t remember when the video is from, it’s on YouTube.


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## Edika (Jan 6, 2021)

New Mustaine signature Mesa head to go along the new Gibson/Kramer sig then?


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## Zado (Jan 6, 2021)

Now sueing every amp brand on earth for producing tube based amps.


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## Spinedriver (Jan 6, 2021)

KnightBrolaire said:


> Mesa's whole brand cache is based on their excellent qc and the fact that they're still made in the USA imo.
> I wonder if they're partnering with gibson just to get better international distribution/sales.





fps said:


> According to Andertons, Mesa Boogie recently jettisoned their distributors, in a way which meant Andertons could immediately and substantially cut prices. Can’t remember when the video is from, it’s on YouTube.



I remember them saying that as well. It was from last July.



Could be they are tired of Fender making fun of them for not being able to make a decent amp and this is their way of trying to sell a "Gibson" branded amp and not have everyone say it's a piece of junk.


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## lurè (Jan 6, 2021)

Avedas said:


> If it's just a distribution thing, maybe that means slightly less overpriced Boogies outside the US?



I hope it's just that and not a re-location of the production just to make it cheaper.

If bringing the price for Eu the same as for US means reducing the quality, sorry but it's a big no for me.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 6, 2021)

So uhh if all the rumors are true, then this is the second time Mustaine and Hetfield worked with the same company.


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## StevenC (Jan 6, 2021)

Petrucci endorsing Leo and Orville at the same time.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 6, 2021)

Its official. Gibson owns Mesa Boogie


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## gunshow86de (Jan 6, 2021)

Well, I hope Randall secured the bag at least.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 6, 2021)

Gibson owns Mesa

And Fender is about to release a block letter 5150

2021 is about to be a trip


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## nickgray (Jan 6, 2021)

Amp Authentic.


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## StevenC (Jan 6, 2021)

Rectifier Rev C Reissue when?


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## manu80 (Jan 6, 2021)

Prices exploding on reverb in 3,2,1.....


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## Zado (Jan 6, 2021)

"Selling Mesa Triple Recto w/ repaired headstock"


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## lewis (Jan 6, 2021)

christ. Was kinda hoping it was a silly rumour but, seems its 100% legit.

Damn man!
The rectos and the Mark V;s are literally icons to me and now this with whatever this form of "Gibson" is?
christ alive.

Absolutely dead as far as Im concerned.


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## Thaeon (Jan 6, 2021)

Avedas said:


> If it's just a distribution thing, maybe that means slightly less overpriced Boogies outside the US?





Seabeast2000 said:


> This makes the most sense to my unknowledgable self.



I'm betting its an exchange of services. Gibson will provide distribution channels. Mesa will build Gibson branded amps.


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## ddtonfire (Jan 6, 2021)

I love my Les Paul, I love my Mark amps, I love playing them together, but I'm not sure I love them in business together.


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## Seabeast2000 (Jan 6, 2021)

Think of all of the lifestyle swsg we will be able to buy.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 6, 2021)

Any clue how good Mesa was doing financially? They had their store in Hollywood they had to close down. 

I'm not super bummed about it. I'm hoping Gibson stays hands off like they do with Epi


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## sakeido (Jan 6, 2021)

LOL gonna poke a lotta holes in my argument the early Rectos aren't special cuz they've never bothered re-issuing them... it's only a matter of months now

except no wait now that they're owned by Gibson, it won't count if they start doing reissues because that's all Gibson ever does. When Mesa was owned by guys who legitimately cared about quality products and tone, they never did reissues because they regarded the new amps as better in every way. 

I wouldn't be surprised if Mesa has been struggling lately, either. Amps got too expensive. I know everybody wants their shit made in the US but tube amps are so limited, almost all of em are one trick ponies... Fractal, Line 6, Neural all must be eating their lunch


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## Esp Griffyn (Jan 6, 2021)

Ah, I love a good marketing disaster.


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## Zhysick (Jan 6, 2021)

I don't like this, is not a good thing that companies get bigger and bigger... but it has been confirmed. Whatever... I wasn't going to buy any Mesa amp (because of the price, too expensive for me) now is not going to be any different I suppose...


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## Millul (Jan 6, 2021)

The sense of doom runs strong in this thread...!
I'm interested in seeing exactly what this partnership (buy out) is about, understanding the Ys, and maybe not so ready to give Mesa for dead already as some seem to be doing.

Maybe it will even be a good thing?


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## cardinal (Jan 6, 2021)

I try not to have hot takes or chicken-little reactions to things, but Gibson acquisitions have an absolutely terrible track record, and from the press release it seems like a true acquisition. 

Seems bad for Mesa fans.


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## manu80 (Jan 6, 2021)

Hard to understand how a brand that was almost done can now buy companies...
Gibson’s health was terrible rencently...
And now this. They bought it for 1 dollar ?


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## Demiurge (Jan 6, 2021)

Thaeon said:


> I'm betting its an exchange of services. Gibson will provide distribution channels. Mesa will build Gibson branded amps.



I can see this. Gibson's site makes no mention of a current amp line. For all I know they could be great, but I can't say I've ever seen Gibson's amps talked-about much. For a company that's been undergoing changes, I'm sure the thought popped into someone's head that Fender makes guitars & amps and sells loads of each while not so much for Gibson on the latter. Putting out an amp with Mesa design/pedigree could given them a lift. Or buying the company and deeming it their amp division is a solution, too


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## Accoun (Jan 6, 2021)

Thaeon said:


> I'm betting its an exchange of services. Gibson will provide distribution channels. Mesa will build Gibson branded amps.



They state in the PR puff piece that contracting Mesa to build some new GA-20/40 amps was the spark that started talks between the companies:
https://www.guitarworld.com/feature...oogie-and-what-it-means-for-the-iconic-brands

Mesa has their sound people like and I'm wondering if Gibson amps wouldn't be an outlet for a different one.


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## cardinal (Jan 6, 2021)

I certainly hope it works out. Just hopefully Mesa isn't somehow saddled with debt from this or used as a piggy bank and left without adequate funding to do the things they need to do.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 6, 2021)

cardinal said:


> I try not to have hot takes or chicken-little reactions to things, but Gibson acquisitions have an absolutely terrible track record, and from the press release it seems like a true acquisition.
> 
> Seems bad for Mesa fans.



Buying too many brands is what causes Gibson to go bankrupt. I doubt they'd make the same mistake again. Plus unlike other acquisitions, people still care about Mesa. No one really cared about Steinberger or Kramer.


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## odibrom (Jan 6, 2021)

Premier Guitar already has a small article on this

https://www.premierguitar.com/articles/31235-gibson-announces-acquisition-of-mesaboogie


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## Mathemagician (Jan 6, 2021)

cardinal said:


> I certainly hope it works out. Just hopefully Mesa isn't somehow saddled with debt from this or used as a piggy bank and left without adequate funding to do the things they need to do.



This is main concern, that they’ll be used as a cash cow without being left $$ for continued R&D.


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## Celtic Frosted Flakes (Jan 6, 2021)

Gibson will now release a limited Slash amp every year, just $ 13 999 each.


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## JSanta (Jan 6, 2021)

I think this could be great for both brands. Gibson has been doing better from a QC perspective with their new leadership, and I would imagine that Gibson is going to leverage their vast (compared to MB) network and resources to get more Mesa Boogie sales.

I get that it's fashionable to shit on Gibson, but this could end up being a very smart move for both companies.


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## bostjan (Jan 6, 2021)

I think Randy has been thinking about retiring for a few years now, and I bet this is the fruit of that.

Mesa has always remained a small company despite their output and continued demand for their products.

I don't see this as being good for the Mesa brand in the short term, but, in the long term, I guess we will see.


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## Phlegethon (Jan 6, 2021)

Selling Mesa comes as no surprise. Randall has to retire eventually. But Gibson? As others have pointed out: this isn't going to end well. Frankly, Mesa is now on the same "ignore" list that I put Gibsons on. I don't fancy paying custom shop money for a product that is going to contain flaws that are unacceptable at the lowest price entry gear.


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## Musiscience (Jan 6, 2021)

This is scaring me. I always loved Mesa products and brand, but if Gibson has it's hand in that pie...

Can't help but think: RIP Mesa. The pre-Gibson stuff is bound to get more expensive and valued.


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## nemanja (Jan 6, 2021)




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## Ordacleaphobia (Jan 6, 2021)

Well there goes the idea of finally sniping a dual rec off Reverb.
Not trying to pay LIMITED PRE-GIBSON prices.

I'm not excited, but I'm not panicked either. All Gibson has to do is...nothing. I'd imagine they wanted to shack up with Mesa because they knew that Mesa had the winning formula- and if they knew that, why would they want to change it?


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## c7spheres (Jan 6, 2021)

It is true. It's not a conspiracy. Gibson destroys everything they touch. I gotta get more info about what exactly Gibsons gonna do with/to Mesa now. 

- Wonder how long it is before we start seeing "Boogie" bluetooth speakers for sale at Best Buy. You know they're just gonna slap the Boogie logo on everything.


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## Musiscience (Jan 6, 2021)

Ordacleaphobia said:


> I'd imagine they wanted to shack up with Mesa because they knew that Mesa had the winning formula- and if they knew that, why would they want to change it?



Because they're Gibson. Ugh, just when you thought the new year would bring some good.


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## cwhitey2 (Jan 6, 2021)

All the Mesa's I need are in my FM3 so I guess I'm safe


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## MESA Boogie (Jan 6, 2021)

We appreciate all your thoughts - We’re excited about our partnership with Gibson! We are not only running operations with the same people including designers, craftsman and service team but now have the support and passion of the Gibson team to drive our pursuit of tone to new levels around the globe. And passionate about Mesa Boogie they are! Our day-to-day operations are unchanged, as is our dedication to producing the highest quality, boutique custom shop amplifiers and providing superior customer service to the entire MESA family. Thank you!


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## r3tr0sp3ct1v3 (Jan 6, 2021)

Can this really be that bad?


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 6, 2021)

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> Can this really be that bad?



I think people are exaggerating the doom and gloom. People are acting like Gibson's going to fire everyone and replace them with sweatshop workers that build Bugera-quality amps.

Unless they learned absofuckinglutely from the bankruptcy, they're going to leave Mesa alone and let them do their thing.


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## technomancer (Jan 6, 2021)

I look forward to the now-inevitable True Historic IIC+ with period correct knobs for $8k


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## protest (Jan 6, 2021)

c7spheres said:


> It is true. It's not a conspiracy. Gibson destroys everything they touch.



Have they ever touched a company like Mesa though? Honest question. I think it's guaranteed that there's going to be things done we don't like, but hopefully there's enough good that comes out of it. 

I can't wait to list my Pre-Gibson Mark V for sale!!


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## bostjan (Jan 6, 2021)

protest said:


> Have they ever touched a company like Mesa though? Honest question. I think it's guaranteed that there's going to be things done we don't like, but hopefully there's enough good that comes out of it.
> 
> I can't wait to list my Pre-Gibson Mark V for sale!!



No, simply because there are no other companies exactly like Mesa.

They broke Steinberger, Kramer, Valley Arts, etc., etc. etc. all to varying degrees. I suppose they broke Epiphone, too, until they brought it back as a budget line of Gibson, which they've also done with other brands.

Has Gibson ever bought a brand and made it something better than it was before? That's also a valid question. And the answer is why most people are worried. Gibson's batting average at buying a company and running it into the ground is high, and their track record of buying a company and making it into something special is nil. So, based on history, odds are 60% bad and 40% neutral, maybe. But maybe Gibson is turning a new leaf. One can hope.

My first significant gear purchase was my Dual Recto stack. I still use the same head from that stack as my primary amplifier.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 6, 2021)

protest said:


> Have they ever touched a company like Mesa though? Honest question. it



This is what I've been saying. Gibson had a REALLY fucking bad history of letting companies suffer (as said above, Kramer, Valley Arts, Steinberger). But those companies were already either dying or outright dead. 

This is more in line with Fender buying Jackson or starting EVH. Those are brands people still give a shit about.


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## Zado (Jan 6, 2021)

c7spheres said:


> It is true. It's not a conspiracy. Gibson destroys everything they touch.


Well they managed to bankrupt despite being literally the most famous music related brand in history afterall


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## c7spheres (Jan 6, 2021)

protest said:


> Have they ever touched a company like Mesa though? Honest question. I think it's guaranteed that there's going to be things done we don't like, but hopefully there's enough good that comes out of it.
> 
> I can't wait to list my Pre-Gibson Mark V for sale!!




I honestly don't know. I'm just knee-jerk reacting. 

- I feel the same fear, confusion, anger, hopelessness and betrayal I've felt before after being parent trapped.


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## lurè (Jan 6, 2021)

Gibson's mission is to buy every company on the planet before going bakrupt again


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## bracky (Jan 6, 2021)

The pre Gibson Mesas are nice and even coveted but are they actually authentic?


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## Seabeast2000 (Jan 6, 2021)

bracky said:


> The pre Gibson Mesas are nice and even coveted but are they actually authentic?


True, white script logo Mesas had there place but let's be real.


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## MFB (Jan 6, 2021)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> This is more in line with Fender buying Jackson or starting EVH. Those are brands people still give a shit about.



Am I missing something here, did Fender ruin Jackson? It seems like they got more artists after the buyout, and become more relevant from it then vice versa. If they didn't, then I fail to see how Gibson buying Mesa would have the same results.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 6, 2021)

MFB said:


> Am I missing something here, did Fender ruin Jackson? It seems like they got more artists after the buyout, and become more relevant from it then vice versa. If they didn't, then I fail to see how Gibson buying Mesa would have the same results.


I mean they didn't fucking gut the company, and instead boosted the absolute fuck out of it because it was still relevant.

This is in NO way like Gibson buying guitar companies who had their prime in the mid-late '80s.


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## c7spheres (Jan 6, 2021)

According to the interview with Randall Smith and the guys at Gibson, Randall Smith will still be overseeing the circuits for the amps. That's encouraging but no word on production or what's gonna happen to the Petaluma factory.


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## manu80 (Jan 6, 2021)

stupid question, MB have always been built in the USA? no outside production ever ?


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## bostjan (Jan 6, 2021)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I mean they didn't fucking gut the company, and instead boosted the absolute fuck out of it because it was still relevant.
> 
> This is in NO way like Gibson buying guitar companies who had their prime in the mid-late '80s.



Baldwin was once the premier piano maker in the USA. They expanded throughout the 1990's. Gibson bought them in 2001, laid off their workers and moved their production to China. Now they are a budget brand.

Not saying that's what they plan to do with Mesa, but Gibson has a strong history of this BS. I've already asked, but I'll ask again - What brand(s) did Gibson improve after purchasing?


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## c7spheres (Jan 6, 2021)

manu80 said:


> stupid question, MB have always been built in the USA? no outside production ever ?


 I'm 99% sure that's 99% correct.


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## Seabeast2000 (Jan 6, 2021)

I thought the mini rectos were overseas but am probably wrong.


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## protest (Jan 6, 2021)

The only overseas parts from Mesa would be tubes and stuff like screws, wood, etc., and the UK Celestions. All amps and cabs are constructed in the US. T-shirts and barstools, I'm not so sure on.


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## bostjan (Jan 6, 2021)

Seabeast2000 said:


> I thought the mini rectos were overseas but am probably wrong.


They're made in California. (source: https://www.premierguitar.com/artic...t Mini Rectifier,length of those mighty heads.)


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## DudeManBrother (Jan 6, 2021)

As long as the staff and production continues in Petaluma, this is probably not a big deal. If they shut down and move production overseas: that’s cause for tears. @MESA Boogie will blink twice if they’re under duress


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## sakeido (Jan 6, 2021)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I mean they didn't fucking gut the company, and instead boosted the absolute fuck out of it because it was still relevant.
> 
> This is in NO way like Gibson buying guitar companies who had their prime in the mid-late '80s.



imo there were some rough years just after Fender acquired them but Jackson is better than ever now. They weren't even "rough" years per se, just total stagnation of the line and no interesting releases for yeeeeears


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## MESA Boogie (Jan 6, 2021)

DudeManBrother said:


> As long as the staff and production continues in Petaluma, this is probably not a big deal. If they shut down and move production overseas: that’s cause for tears. @MESA Boogie will blink twice if they’re under duress



All MESA products have always been built in California - and at our one and only shop in Petaluma since August 1980. We will continue to build all MESA products here in Petaluma, with the same designers, same people building amps, same parts, and same (high) quality throughout. Thanks!


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 6, 2021)

MESA Boogie said:


> All MESA products have always been built in California - and at our one and only shop in Petaluma since August 1980. We will continue to build all MESA products here in Petaluma, with the same designers, same people building amps, same parts, and same (high) quality throughout. Thanks!


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## MrWulf (Jan 6, 2021)

Time to buy a Mark V and relist it 3k down the line as "pre Gibson"


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## Spinedriver (Jan 6, 2021)

The way I see it, best case scenario: Gibson basically leaves the brand completely alone and just uses Mesa as a source of income. Worst case scenario: They DO try and implement serious 'cost cutting' measures and move manufacturing overseas and STILL charges and arm and a leg for the amps.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Jan 6, 2021)

Gross.


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## sakeido (Jan 6, 2021)

Spinedriver said:


> The way I see it, best case scenario: Gibson basically leaves the brand completely alone and just uses Mesa as a source of income. Worst case scenario: They DO try and implement serious 'cost cutting' measures and move manufacturing overseas and STILL charges and arm and a leg for the amps.



Best case in prices of Mesa internationally come down, they do some cool Gibson amps, then they do some even cooler cheap Epiphone amps that are made in Mexico or something, and Mesa tone becomes accessible to more people than ever before


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## Spaced Out Ace (Jan 6, 2021)

sakeido said:


> Best case in prices of Mesa internationally come down, they do some cool Gibson amps, then they do some even cooler cheap Epiphone amps that are made in Mexico or something, and Mesa tone becomes accessible to more people than ever before


Or a (as far as I know) solely Made in America company starts making stuff in foreign countries.


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## MASS DEFECT (Jan 6, 2021)

Well, you get more access to Mesa Boogies. And there will be more chances that payment options will be open to more people like 24-48 mos to pay since they have a bigger banking footprint. Only sweetwater can do financing options for boogies every other year on Sweetwater Gearweek.


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## Spinedriver (Jan 6, 2021)

sakeido said:


> Best case in prices of Mesa internationally come down, they do some cool Gibson amps, then they do some even cooler cheap Epiphone amps that are made in Mexico or something, and Mesa tone becomes accessible to more people than ever before[/QUOTE



The cheapest Mesa amp on the L&M website is $1,689 for a "Mini-Recto" and it goes all the way up to $3,449 for a Mark V. It really would be cool to see them offer something a bit more 'affordable' than that, even if it does mean that it won't be a Mesa/Boogie amp but rather a 'Boogie by Gibson' or some other such branding so long as the tones are there.


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## nickgray (Jan 6, 2021)

Spinedriver said:


> but rather a 'Boogie by Gibson'



Plateau/Boogie


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## metaljohn (Jan 6, 2021)

gunch said:


> idk it might just be a distribution thing like ESP/ENGL


I really hope so


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## Phlegethon (Jan 6, 2021)

Spinedriver said:


> The way I see it, best case scenario: Gibson basically leaves the brand completely alone and just uses Mesa as a source of income. Worst case scenario: They DO try and implement serious 'cost cutting' measures and move manufacturing overseas and STILL charges and arm and a leg for the amps.



I'm willing to bet money on Gibson trying to "improve" Mesa like they have with any other brand they've run into the ground



Spinedriver said:


> The cheapest Mesa amp on the L&M website is $1,689 for a "Mini-Recto" and it goes all the way up to $3,449 for a Mark V. It really would be cool to see them offer something a bit more 'affordable' than that, even if it does mean that it won't be a Mesa/Boogie amp but rather a 'Boogie by Gibson' or some other such branding so long as the tones are there.



I am not paying anything for something that Gibson has had their hand in. Especially if it's something outsourced (or going to be outsourced) for China to make. You're still going to be paying the Gibson tax.


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## narad (Jan 6, 2021)

in the best possible world...

Mesa Historic R83 Mark IIC+ head


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## Spaced Out Ace (Jan 6, 2021)

Phlegethon said:


> I'm willing to bet money on Gibson trying to "improve" Mesa like they have with any other brand they've run into the ground
> 
> 
> 
> I am not paying anything for something that Gibson has had their hand in. Especially if it's something outsourced (or going to be outsourced) for China to make. You're still going to be paying the Gibson tax.


Bingo to both.


----------



## Spinedriver (Jan 6, 2021)

I like how someone on another board posted that they are now going to make a 'Mesa Mk V Custom, MK V Jr., MK V Special, MK V Standard', etc... One can only hope that they just bought the company just for it's profitability and will let them just do what they've been doing. If Gibson is going to insist on 'we need to really focus on the entry level market', then the brand is gonna suffer BIG TIME.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Jan 6, 2021)

Spinedriver said:


> I like how someone on another board posted that they are now going to make a 'Mesa Mk V Custom, MK V Jr., MK V Special, MK V Standard', etc... One can only hope that they just bought the company just for it's profitability and will let them just do what they've been doing. If Gibson is going to insist on 'we need to really focus on the entry level market', then the brand is gonna suffer BIG TIME.


I think Mesa will end up worse off as a result of this.


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## StevenC (Jan 6, 2021)

I think Mesa will end up better off as a result of this.


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## Bearitone (Jan 6, 2021)

MrWulf said:


> Time to buy a Mark V and relist it 3k down the line as "pre Gibson"


Bro you don’t even have to wait. Just do it and people will buy it.


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## Seabeast2000 (Jan 6, 2021)

Do we know how Gibson is doing since the re-org a year or two ago? I mean the shitposting is always fun but I really don't know if that ship is on a better heading now or not.


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## Bearitone (Jan 6, 2021)

StevenC said:


> I think Mesa will end up better off as a result of this.


Doubt it. Mesa has a great thing going for them and upper management at Gibson will fuck it. They won’t be able to help themselves with another cash-cow, well renowned, brand name to lean on while cutting cost on quality or moving production out of the US. I feel like the chances of them being a net positive influence on Mesa is small at best.


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## StevenC (Jan 6, 2021)

Seabeast2000 said:


> Do we know how Gibson is doing since the re-org a year or two ago? I mean the shitposting is always fun but I really don't know if that ship is on a better heading now or not.


They seem to have sold several hundred $10k guitars in the last few years.


Bearitone said:


> Doubt it. Mesa has a great thing going for them and upper management at Gibson will fuck it. They won’t be able to help themselves with another cash-cow, well renowned, brand name to lean on while cutting cost on quality or moving production out of the US. I feel like the chances of them being a net positive influence on Mesa is small at best.


What has the current Gibson upper management done? Beyond selling high end guitars.


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## thebeesknees22 (Jan 6, 2021)

StevenC said:


> They seem to have sold several hundred $10k guitars in the last few years.
> 
> What has the current Gibson upper management done? Beyond selling high end guitars.



They offered Mesa a boat load of money. That's what they did lol


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## eggy in a bready (Jan 6, 2021)

StevenC said:


> What has the current Gibson upper management done? Beyond selling high end guitars.


aside from going bankrupt and suing the living shit out of everybody, not much


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## StevenC (Jan 6, 2021)

eggy in a bready said:


> aside from going bankrupt and suing the living shit out of everybody, not much


A different upper management went bankrupt


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## eggy in a bready (Jan 6, 2021)

whatever, it'll happen again


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## StevenC (Jan 6, 2021)

eggy in a bready said:


> whatever, it'll happen again


Gibson went bankrupt because of non-guitar technology endeavours. Gibson's guitar operation has been massively profitable for years.

This is one of the rare occasions where Gibson is buying an actual going concern, presumably a profitable one.

Gibson has shown a historic ability to run a high end guitar business where they sell high end instruments made in the USA to rich people, while having a sub brand in Epiphone to promote the brand. Henry showed a massive ineptitude in predicting the trajectory of the music technology industry entirely separate to that.


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## Shoeless_jose (Jan 6, 2021)

Lol all the Gibson hate is hilarious. I prefer my Les Paul to my Mayones Duvell and aside from maybe being a bit high on prices and overly resistant to modern changes that are good (volutes ect) Gibson makes lots of good stuff. i guess no 28.8" scale and SS frets though.

i'm indifferent to this but if prices drop in Canada that would be rad not sure who distributor of Mesa currently was but I know Gibson is through Yorkville Sound so basically Long and Macquade will still set the price.


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## FTB (Jan 6, 2021)

I wonder if they will end up going the way of Peavey with the Misha debacle. 

"Yep, still made in USA!"
"Oh, yeah, _assembled _in USA!"
"I'm not actually sure what's going on but they're still great!"
"Turns out they're now made in China and nobody told me, whoops!"


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## eggy in a bready (Jan 6, 2021)

StevenC said:


> Gibson went bankrupt because of non-guitar technology endeavours. Gibson's guitar operation has been massively profitable for years.
> 
> This is one of the rare occasions where Gibson is buying an actual going concern, presumably a profitable one.
> 
> Gibson has shown a historic ability to run a high end guitar business where they sell high end instruments made in the USA to rich people, while having a sub brand in Epiphone to promote the brand. Henry showed a massive ineptitude in predicting the trajectory of the music technology industry entirely separate to that.


i was being somewhat facetious.
anyways, i'm not so sure it was about the non-guitar related tech investments, rather than the amount of money that went out the door. gibson was literally writing checks they couldn't cash. and lo and behold, here they are doing it again.

what they plan on doing with mesa remains to be seen, but i can't imagine it's anything we would want


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## StevenC (Jan 6, 2021)

eggy in a bready said:


> i was being somewhat facetious.
> anyways, i'm not so sure it's about the non-guitar related tech investments, rather that the amount of money going out the door. gibson was literally writing checks they couldn't cash. and lo and behold, here they are doing it again.
> 
> what they plan on doing with mesa remains to be seen, but i can't imagine it's anything we would want


It's well known that they were making money on guitars they were losing elsewhere.

The way I see it is Randall is old and probably wants to move towards retirement. The likelihood that Gibson keeps them afloat is much better than whatever other options they had.


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## eggy in a bready (Jan 6, 2021)

StevenC said:


> It's well known that they were making money on guitars they were losing elsewhere.


apparently not enough to pay back those investments lmao


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## Shoeless_jose (Jan 6, 2021)

eggy in a bready said:


> apparently not enough to pay back those investments lmao




Point is the guitar business was sound but Henry made bad big picture decisions which were amplified by recession as they borrowed big before the downturn.


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## Boris_VTR (Jan 7, 2021)

c7spheres said:


> According to the interview with Randall Smith and the guys at Gibson, Randall Smith will still be overseeing the circuits for the amps. That's encouraging but no word on production or what's gonna happen to the Petaluma factory.


There usually is around 2 years transition period before old CEO leaves the company for "new adventure".


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## drgordonfreeman (Jan 7, 2021)

This sucks. It’s appreciable some of you are trying to stay positive about this. But this outright sucks. Nothing good will come of it.


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## Lindmann (Jan 7, 2021)

drgordonfreeman said:


> Nothing good will come of it.


Hold up...


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## MaxOfMetal (Jan 7, 2021)

bostjan said:


> Baldwin was once the premier piano maker in the USA. They expanded throughout the 1990's. Gibson bought them in 2001, laid off their workers and moved their production to China. Now they are a budget brand.
> 
> Not saying that's what they plan to do with Mesa, but Gibson has a strong history of this BS. I've already asked, but I'll ask again - What brand(s) did Gibson improve after purchasing?



You forget that Baldwin went bankrupt and then Gibson purchased them. It's actually pretty interesting. Baldwin was sort of "Gibson of Pianos" in that they were highly successful early on and got too top heavy, weighed down with acquisitions and wound up going broke. They had ups and downs, but it was pretty well down by the time Gibson showed up. 

Technically they improved every brand they've acquired if you consider that if they hadn't those brands would likely cease to exist. 

That's sort of how they used to do it, find a brand on death's doormat at see what happens. Some times it works and sometimes it doesn't.

This is sort of uncharted waters, a leaner Gibson with new management buying a successful business in somewhat same industry.


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## lewis (Jan 7, 2021)

Lindmann said:


> Hold up...


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## p0ke (Jan 7, 2021)

Hopefully this won't completely destroy the Mesa/Boogie brand... I've never had one (actually, I've never even played one) nor particularly liked any of the virtual versions I've tried, but many others do and so many legendary albums are recorded using those, so... Don't really know what to think here.

But acquisitions aren't exactly a new thing though. Ibanez comes to mind first - apparently Ibanez used to be a small Spanish company specialising in classical guitars, which Hoshino Gakki bought and basically just took the name  I don't think there's much else left of the original Ibanez company. Imagine how fans of the original guitars must've felt back then. My uncle was super surprised when I showed him my RG1527 back when I got it, because he just remembered Ibanez being a highly esteemed company making acoustic guitars in the 70's.

[UPDATE]

I googled and apparently I was slightly off: Hoshino Gakki started by being an importer of Salvador Ibanez guitars in Japan and later started making their own instruments, and then when the "original" Ibanez was destroyed during the Spanish civil war, they bought the name. Ah well, not too far off anyway. The Ibanez guitars of the 70's were definitely not made in Spain though.


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## Spinedriver (Jan 7, 2021)

StevenC said:


> They seem to have sold several hundred $10k guitars in the last few years.
> 
> What has the current Gibson upper management done? Beyond selling high end guitars.



If I'm not mistaken, it wasn't that long ago that the now infamous video came out where I'm not sure if he was the new CEO or who he was but he said that Gibson was going to sue the hell out of anyone who tries to copy their designs and proceeded to go after Dean for their Flying V shaped guitar. It'll be interesting to see how they treat pedal makers who put out pedals that say "based on a Mesa Dual Rectifier/Mark iv/etc..." They may very well start sending 'cease and decist' letters to them as well.


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## Spinedriver (Jan 7, 2021)

p0ke said:


> Hopefully this won't completely destroy the Mesa/Boogie brand... I've never had one (actually, I've never even played one) nor particularly liked any of the virtual versions I've tried, but many others do and so many legendary albums are recorded using those, so... Don't really know what to think here.
> 
> But acquisitions aren't exactly a new thing though. Ibanez comes to mind first - apparently Ibanez used to be a small Spanish company specialising in classical guitars, which Hoshino Gakki bought and basically just took the name  I don't think there's much else left of the original Ibanez company. Imagine how fans of the original guitars must've felt back then. My uncle was super surprised when I showed him my RG1527 back when I got it, because he just remembered Ibanez being a highly esteemed company making acoustic guitars in the 70's.



Granted, good things _can_ happen when a company is acquired but look at what's happened recently with Digitech and Randall. They were bought up by some 'mega corp' and they've all but ceased to exist. Granted, this is a bit different because Gibson is huge in the music industry but it can end up going either really good or really bad.


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## p0ke (Jan 7, 2021)

Spinedriver said:


> Granted, good things _can_ happen when a company is acquired but look at what's happened recently with Digitech and Randall. They were bought up by some 'mega corp' and they've all but ceased to exist. Granted, this is a bit different because Gibson is huge in the music industry but it can end up going either really good or really bad.



I'm not saying the situation is the same, but either way, it was a big change. I think Ibanez wouldn't exist anymore if HG hadn't bought the name, so in that sense everybody won.

And yep, the case with Digitech really sucks - I have the GSP1101 so because of that I've been keeping up with the situation. It's a goddamned awesome unit and it was so much ahead of it's time, imagine if they'd get to make a modern version of it... It wouldn't even need much updating TBH, just putting modern components in it (allowing higher quality IR's and so on) would pretty much be enough...


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## StevenC (Jan 7, 2021)

Spinedriver said:


> If I'm not mistaken, it wasn't that long ago that the now infamous video came out where I'm not sure if he was the new CEO or who he was but he said that Gibson was going to sue the hell out of anyone who tries to copy their designs and proceeded to go after Dean for their Flying V shaped guitar. It'll be interesting to see how they treat pedal makers who put out pedals that say "based on a Mesa Dual Rectifier/Mark iv/etc..." They may very well start sending 'cease and decist' letters to them as well.


OK, but there's no IP to sue over there for two reasons. One being you can't sue over circuit copyong in almost ever instances which applies to a tube amplifier, the second being that you definitely can't sue over sounding similar with a different circuit.

But I don't see how protecting their IP would be a bad thing for Mesa even if it were possible.


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## diagrammatiks (Jan 7, 2021)

StevenC said:


> OK, but there's no IP to sue over there for two reasons. One being you can't sue over circuit copyong in almost ever instances which applies to a tube amplifier, the second being that you definitely can't sue over sounding similar with a different circuit.
> 
> But I don't see how protecting their IP would be a bad thing for Mesa even if it were possible.



well technically you can if the circuit shows some innovation enough for patent protection...

which actually makes this deal a match made in heaven.

randall is fucking vigilant about patenting all his shit even when it relies on the patent office not knowing shit about tube amps and just granting him patents for anything.

I mean honestly...no one outside of maybe marshall and fender are getting rich selling amps. 

randall needs to retire soon and mesa really only has two things...a name brand and a patent portfolio.


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## Spinedriver (Jan 7, 2021)

StevenC said:


> OK, but there's no IP to sue over there for two reasons. One being you can't sue over circuit copyong in almost ever instances which applies to a tube amplifier, the second being that you definitely can't sue over sounding similar with a different circuit.
> 
> But I don't see how protecting their IP would be a bad thing for Mesa even if it were possible.



I said the same thing somewehere else that they can't sue a company because they make an amp sim/pedal that "sounds" like a Recto because you can't trademark the tone of an amp. I was meaning that they would probably go after companies that use the exact wording of "based on a Mesa (insert model name)" in whatever promotion they are using for said pedal/modeler.


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## Edika (Jan 7, 2021)

I'm just hoping they get a wider distribution, become more accessible and prices are not higher in other parts of the world. Gibson guitars are not that much more expensive in the UK/EU vs the US prices

@MESA Boogie one thing you should invest a bit more on, which most amp manufacturers are doing now, is having a voltage option on your amps and not having a US or rest of the world version. It just doesn't make sense anymore...


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## StevenC (Jan 7, 2021)

Edika said:


> I'm just hoping they get a wider distribution, become more accessible and prices are not higher in other parts of the world. Gibson guitars are not that much more expensive in the UK/EU vs the US prices
> 
> @MESA Boogie one thing you should invest a bit more on, which most amp manufacturers are doing now, is having a voltage option on your amps and not having a US or rest of the world version. It just doesn't make sense anymore...


They used to do that and then noticed people weren't buying their amps from dealers internationally, but importing US bought amps themselves.


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## Vyn (Jan 7, 2021)

So one overhyped, overpriced brand buys another overhyped, over priced brand 

Some context - if you do not live in the US, both brands cost dumb money.


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## Edika (Jan 7, 2021)

StevenC said:


> They used to do that and then noticed people weren't buying their amps from dealers internationally, but importing US bought amps themselves.



Hopefully they'll rethink this if they get wider distribution through Gibson and prices normalize in the UK/EU. I can understand why they would do that being a relatively small company with production in the US but that is not solving the issue. Of course people would import them in the US I remember looking at buying one back in 2008 and prices in EU and France where 2300 Euros minimum new, while for the same amp the price in the US was $1800. With currency exchange and import taxes it was still about 500 Euros cheaper to get it new from the US.


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## I play music (Jan 7, 2021)

MaxOfMetal said:


> This is sort of uncharted waters, a leaner Gibson with new management buying a successful business in somewhat same industry.


Are tube amps still a successful business with good future outlook? Having my doubts here ...


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## MaxOfMetal (Jan 7, 2021)

I play music said:


> Are tube amps still a successful business with good future outlook? Having my doubts here ...



For a legacy brand like Mesa? Who owns thier manufacturing? Yeah, I'd say so. At least for the rest of our lifetimes.

The "tube amp apocalypse" has been predicted since the 90's, and while I think every year things get better as far as what's available to replace them, I think it'll take several more generations of guitarists to really shake them. 

I say that as someone who could use tube amps a lot more, but doesn't any longer.


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## Demiurge (Jan 7, 2021)

^For the daily thing to feel old about: I had to look it up, but apparently Line6's first amp modeler came out in the mid-90's! If modeling is really going to kill tube amps, this prolonged siege is really starting to resemble coexistence.


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## AboutBlank (Jan 7, 2021)

It's always interesting to see when ideology meets economy, especially in such emotional and brand-affine areas as the instrument business.


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## bostjan (Jan 7, 2021)

MaxOfMetal said:


> You forget that Baldwin went bankrupt and then Gibson purchased them. It's actually pretty interesting. Baldwin was sort of "Gibson of Pianos" in that they were highly successful early on and got too top heavy, weighed down with acquisitions and wound up going broke. They had ups and downs, but it was pretty well down by the time Gibson showed up.
> 
> Technically they improved every brand they've acquired if you consider that if they hadn't those brands would likely cease to exist.
> 
> ...


Baldwin went bankrupt in 1983, recovered, started doing better than ever, had some upper-level management guys retire (maybe seeing future financial distress), and then started talk of bankruptcy around June 2001, citing "disproportionate" severance agreements with their executives, was bought by Gibson (around the end of that year, I was unable to track down the actual bankruptcy filing in 2001), with Henry promising that the company would remain American, moved production to China, laid off all of their American workers, and shut down the Baldwin factory. I'm not sure that the Baldwin example fits the Mesa situation, but, I think, it's the closest example out there.

But we'll see. Maybe Randy is really going to stick around and everything will be fine. I just wouldn't bet any money at all on either of those two things, given the situation and Gibson's track record with every other brand (including Gibson itself).



MaxOfMetal said:


> For a legacy brand like Mesa? Who owns thier manufacturing? Yeah, I'd say so. At least for the rest of our lifetimes.
> 
> The "tube amp apocalypse" has been predicted since the 90's, and while I think every year things get better as far as what's available to replace them, I think it'll take several more generations of guitarists to really shake them.
> 
> I say that as someone who could use tube amps a lot more, but doesn't any longer.




This actually could be a better parallel with Baldwin. Baldwin was the premier piano manufacturer in the USA. Baldwin owned their own manufacturing. Baldwin was promised that their manufacturing and management would stay American after the buyout. The piano was the most popular instrument for a very long time ending years/decades before the buyout.

The differences here are that Gibson is under different management (although we have yet to see how the new management handles big brand buyouts) and that virtually no one (meaning the general public) was buying pianos already by 2001 (versus people still buying tube amps, although most of the people doing so are probably over the age of 40 now).

But again, who knows?


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## Phlegethon (Jan 7, 2021)

Demiurge said:


> ^For the daily thing to feel old about: I had to look it up, but apparently Line6's first amp modeler came out in the mid-90's! If modeling is really going to kill tube amps, this prolonged siege is really starting to resemble coexistence.



As long as it's profitable to make tubes I don't see tube amps retiring. There are situations I can think of that would cause tube amps to permanently retire, but the existence of modelling amps isn't one of them. I have a few thoughts on this Some of them are more likely than others, but here they are: 

1. Tube factories could simply close. There's not a lot of 'regular' tube factories left. If I recall Russia, China, and Czech republic are the only locations left. Only reason they're around is because these are the only places that remain viable to keep open. Sure there's expensive niche market stuff that could remain viable, but for the rest of us? Not so much. 

2. Tubes might find themselves legislated out of existence. I think I saw this scenario on a Dylan talks tone video. I'll try to sum it up as briefly as I can. Tubes are inefficient in certain ways, and there are laws/standards that may be put into effect that would put them in the "you can't make these any more" category. It would be similar to how fuel economy standards for cars are making it harder for gas engines to exist. Hell, there are some areas that are banning the sale of new gas engine cars outright. 

3. SS amps and modelers designed to work as proper musical instrument amps, and not something built to a price point are now a thing. For those who may not know: SS amps were originally designed with being cheap as the biggest priority. And the sound of early SS amps were so bad that SS amps have a partially deserved reputation for sounding like hot garbage. Granted, if you make something with being cheap as the biggest priority then this should be expected. This is also the reason some modelling stuff is also hot garbage. 

Modelling is also the new kid on the block. So sometimes the limit on how good it sounded was limited to what people knew about making them at the time. A high end modeler from late 90's early 2000's is going to be nowhere near something that comes out now because companies in general simply didn't know _how_ to make them that good.


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## 70Seven (Jan 7, 2021)

I wonder how John Petrucci feels about this. Being he's the only signature artist with Mesa, this has to affect his business relationship with Mesa.


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## StevenC (Jan 7, 2021)

70Seven said:


> I wonder how John Petrucci feels about this. Being he's the only signature artist with Mesa, this has to affect his business relationship with Mesa.


NAMM 2022: Petrucci Concepts


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## couverdure (Jan 7, 2021)

70Seven said:


> I wonder how John Petrucci feels about this. Being he's the only signature artist with Mesa, this has to affect his business relationship with Mesa.


EVH has a lot of non-Fender endorsers using their amps, I think it'll be the same way for Mesa under Gibson.


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## Boris_VTR (Jan 7, 2021)

70Seven said:


> I wonder how John Petrucci feels about this. Being he's the only signature artist with Mesa, this has to affect his business relationship with Mesa.


I like him a lot but he is also a salesman so I think he'll be fine. More so if he can sell more units of his amps. And if this merger would make mesa prices in EU more realistic than I would be interested in one.


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## I play music (Jan 7, 2021)

MaxOfMetal said:


> For a legacy brand like Mesa? Who owns thier manufacturing? Yeah, I'd say so. At least for the rest of our lifetimes.
> 
> The "tube amp apocalypse" has been predicted since the 90's, and while I think every year things get better as far as what's available to replace them, I think it'll take several more generations of guitarists to really shake them.
> 
> I say that as someone who could use tube amps a lot more, but doesn't any longer.


I am wondering now how the share is between home recording tube amp users with load box etc. and tube amp users for live gigs and band rehearsal. Like in my case the tube amp is just sitting around without rehearsal, so the last thing I'd do currently is to buy another tube amp. Buuuut maybe others see that differently


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## Veldar (Jan 7, 2021)

70Seven said:


> I wonder how John Petrucci feels about this. Being he's the only signature artist with Mesa, this has to affect his business relationship with Mesa.



EBMM JP amps coming to you in NAMM 22'


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## MaxOfMetal (Jan 7, 2021)

bostjan said:


> Baldwin went bankrupt in 1983, recovered, started doing better than ever, had some upper-level management guys retire (maybe seeing future financial distress), and then started talk of bankruptcy around June 2001, citing "disproportionate" severance agreements with their executives, was bought by Gibson (around the end of that year, I was unable to track down the actual bankruptcy filing in 2001), with Henry promising that the company would remain American, moved production to China, laid off all of their American workers, and shut down the Baldwin factory. I'm not sure that the Baldwin example fits the Mesa situation, but, I think, it's the closest example out there.
> 
> But we'll see. Maybe Randy is really going to stick around and everything will be fine. I just wouldn't bet any money at all on either of those two things, given the situation and Gibson's track record with every other brand (including Gibson itself).
> 
> ...



It breaks down to: do the companies Gibson has historically purchased do worse than at the time they were purchased? 

Considering they have just about all been either bankrupt or in the process of (for whatever reason) I'd say "no."

It's not like they buy businesses that are doing great and run them into the ground. They buy basketcases and limp them down the road. 

Which is why this is such a relative curveball.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Jan 7, 2021)

Maybe Mesa isn't doing great and we just aren't aware of it? I dunno. Or maybe we just misunderstand the partnership.


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## Rotatous (Jan 7, 2021)

I doubt this will be nearly as bad as everyone thinks it'll be.


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## drgordonfreeman (Jan 8, 2021)

MaxOfMetal said:


> The "tube amp apocalypse" has been predicted since the 90's



Everyone thought tube amps were dead by the 90’s. And 30 years later, here we are: crying about a tube amp maker being swallowed alive by a corporation whose biggest claim to fame is the 1959 version of its product. Wait until people see prices of pre-Gibson Mesas in another 30 years.



Rotatous said:


> I doubt this will be nearly as bad as everyone thinks it'll be.



It will be worse.


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## possumkiller (Jan 8, 2021)

Ugh... After all the bullshit Gibson went through and tries to put other companies through, why would any company still want to do business with them?


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## lurè (Jan 8, 2021)




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## Randy (Jan 8, 2021)

So it begins


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## DC23 (Jan 8, 2021)

Yeah, I'm already seeing 'Pre-Gibson' Mesa OS 4x12s for $2K on classifieds sites in Canada. Dummies.


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## KnightBrolaire (Jan 8, 2021)

lmao I just saw a triple crown going for 10k on reverb.


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## DC23 (Jan 8, 2021)

KnightBrolaire said:


> lmao I just saw a triple crown going for 10k on reverb.


I have a feeling it won't be going anywhere!


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## MaxOfMetal (Jan 8, 2021)

The "sky is falling" mentality on display in this thread is what drives insanity like that on the used market.


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## odibrom (Jan 8, 2021)

KnightBrolaire said:


> lmao I just saw a triple crown going for 10k on reverb.


link please...


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## KnightBrolaire (Jan 8, 2021)

odibrom said:


> link please...


https://reverb.com/item/38138043-me...71CBOvd1L_C8N-wCFyghTu-YQ1aE4GRq2xMjMMxY2HjtU


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## beerandbeards (Jan 8, 2021)

Buy your JPIIC+ now!!!!


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## bostjan (Jan 8, 2021)

KnightBrolaire said:


> https://reverb.com/item/38138043-me...71CBOvd1L_C8N-wCFyghTu-YQ1aE4GRq2xMjMMxY2HjtU


Funny how, right below the complete description, reverb shows me a listing for a brand new one for 1/5th of the cost: https://reverb.com/p/mesa-boogie-triple-crown-tc-50-3-channel-tube-guitar-amp-head


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## diagrammatiks (Jan 8, 2021)

possumkiller said:


> Ugh... After all the bullshit Gibson went through and tries to put other companies through, why would any company still want to do business with them?



because Randy needs to retire baby.


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## possumkiller (Jan 8, 2021)

diagrammatiks said:


> because Randy needs to retire baby.


I thought they said he isn't retiring?


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## slan (Jan 8, 2021)

Lindmann said:


> Hold up...



This killed me. Thank you.


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## diagrammatiks (Jan 8, 2021)

possumkiller said:


> I thought they said he isn't retiring?



corporations say a lot of things. they meant he's not "retiring" today. he's just going to sit at home and watch tiktok while they pay him.


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## MESA Boogie (Jan 8, 2021)

Ac


diagrammatiks said:


> corporations say a lot of things. they meant he's not "retiring" today. he's just going to sit at home and watch tiktok while they pay him.


Actually Randy has been semi-retired for years. However, he still designs nearly all the amps we make - is not ALL he knows, but its what he DOES...he CAN'T stop! 

Guys - our day to day operations are not changing!


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## odibrom (Jan 8, 2021)

MESA Boogie said:


> Ac
> 
> Actually Randy has been semi-retired for years. However, he still designs nearly all the amps we make - is not ALL he knows, but its what he DOES...he CAN'T stop!
> 
> Guys - our day to day operations are not changing!



Hey, thanks for joining in this conversation. Most of the folks here boil in low water with these kind of news. I'm going to be honest, I'm not a Gibson fan. I don't like their policy regarding other companies that may or may not be copying their designs. They don't need that.

I do like Mesa Boogie and when I read this news I got apprehensive, but, also, I'm not going to buy any amp in the near future unless a catastrophe happens and kills my Triaxis+2:Fifty combo. That would eventually led me searching for another Triaxis or maybe go into the digital arena again, which means that although I'll be using the brand, I won't be contributing to the actual Mesa Boogie needs in selling amps/cabs/pedals... unless there's a Triaxis 2.0 secretly in the making (not the v2, which is mine)... I have some ideas if you're interested...


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## Spinedriver (Jan 8, 2021)

MESA Boogie said:


> Ac
> 
> Actually Randy has been semi-retired for years. However, he still designs nearly all the amps we make - is not ALL he knows, but its what he DOES...he CAN'T stop!
> 
> Guys - our day to day operations are not changing!



I work in a wood shop and the owner retired a few years ago and basically left the company to his son for him to run. My guess is that Randall perhaps doesn't have any relatives that work for Mesa that he could pass it on to, so he just sold it with I would imagine a LOT of caveats included in the contract that would prevent Gibson from massive layoffs/moving production overseas, etc...


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## Rotatous (Jan 9, 2021)

All of this panic is hilarious LMAO


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## diagrammatiks (Jan 9, 2021)

MESA Boogie said:


> Ac
> 
> Actually Randy has been semi-retired for years. However, he still designs nearly all the amps we make - is not ALL he knows, but its what he DOES...he CAN'T stop!
> 
> Guys - our day to day operations are not changing!



most be a cush job. 30 years and like 12 circuits. 

Interns at Texas instruments are required to develop 12 circuits a day.


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## odibrom (Jan 9, 2021)

diagrammatiks said:


> most be a cush job. 30 years and like 12 circuits.
> 
> Interns at Texas instruments are required to develop 12 circuits a day.



Yeah, but interns are not required to run Texas Instruments, are they?


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## Spaced Out Ace (Jan 9, 2021)

Might've already been posted, but I didn't see it. Interesting.


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## budda (Jan 9, 2021)

All the yt clicks.


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## Seabeast2000 (Jan 9, 2021)




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## Musiscience (Jan 10, 2021)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Might've already been posted, but I didn't see it. Interesting.




Clicked the link, was about to watch, then saw it's that Torres guy. 

Nope.exe


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## KnightBrolaire (Jan 10, 2021)

Musiscience said:


> Clicked the link, was about to watch, then saw it's that Torres guy.
> 
> Nope.exe


Yeah i find him really grating for some reason. Probably doesn't help that he spends a lot of time just rambling instead of playing in his vids.


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## Ataraxia2320 (Jan 10, 2021)

Musiscience said:


> Clicked the link, was about to watch, then saw it's that Torres guy.
> 
> Nope.exe



200%. Prob a lovely guy who I'd get along great with but I do not care for his videos at all.


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## Musiscience (Jan 10, 2021)

Ataraxia2320 said:


> 200%. Prob a lovely guy who I'd get along great with but I do not care for his videos at all.


He probably is, but his videos come off as opinionated rants most of the time so I tend to avoid them.


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## Frostbite (Jan 11, 2021)

Nick from Axe Palace posted this
I would like to make a statement regarding the recent news about Gibson acquiring Mesa/Boogie. To say that the amount of misinformation and baseless fear-mongering out there has been over-the-top, would be a gross understatement. I would like to address the situation with facts, based on my inside knowledge of the situation. 

I welcome you to share this post and engage us with questions, so that I can address any specific points of contention or concerns. Troll away if you wish, but this needs to be said:

1. It should be known that Mesa/Boogie was NOT for sale, and was not seeking a buyer for their company. Mesa has been approached numerous times from hopeful buyers, and always turned away. Mesa has been financially rock solid, and most dealers such as ourselves have seen significant gains in recent years, not declines. Mesa is on as solid-ground as they've ever been.

Bottom line: Gibson came to Mesa, not the other way around. 

2. Gibson's poor reputation their former ownership cultivated which resulted in their loss of consumer confidence and subsequent bankruptcy, was warranted. Their new ownership group is aware of this and have made strides to improve this. Acquiring a prestigious, reputable brand such as Mesa/Boogie was part of these efforts to enhance their profile. Mesa is uplifting Gibsons brand. I am sure Gibson's vast financial resources can only help Mesa as well.

3. Nothing is changing at Mesa. Randall Smith (Mesa's founder and head of R&D) is staying. All the designers, builders, techs, and sales guys are staying. Mesa recently renewed their long-term lease in Petaluma, California and are not going anywhere. Amps built on Dec 31, 2020 are not suddenly difference on Jan 1, 2021.

Bottom line: Gibson has directed Mesa to "continue to be Mesa", and will have absolutely nothing to do will production of Mesa amplifiers. 

4. You may be asking yourself: "Why did Mesa choose NOW as the time to sell the company? Well, Randall Smith is 75 years old. He has no children. While he has no plans to retire and has MANY more future designs he's working on, he was concerned what would happen to the company and its employees if something happened to him. 

He wanted to ensure Mesa/Boogie would continue on into the future and thrive even after he is no longer with us. 

Given he already had a professional working relationship with Gibson, and their strong overtures to acquire Mesa, he felt it was the right time when the company is strong and profitable. But again, he is not going anywhere. This was just to secure the future of Mesa and its employees in the event one day he is no longer around.

5. I have zero affiliation of Gibson. We are not a Gibson dealer, and no aspirations to become one. I just can't help but speak out against all the ridiculous, baseless misinformation spreading out there. Look I get it, its fun to make jokes and memes, that's fair game, but the amount of otherwise intelligent and reasonable dues out there who are falling for this "RIP MESA" bullshit is frankly...embarrassing.

Is it possible, 10 years from now, when no one from Mesa is still around, that innovation could suffer? Who knows? Lets wait and see maybe? In the short time, Mesa has a massive library of awesome amps covering every end of the musical spectrum. Building amps to existing specifications/schematics is not difficult. There will be no difference from a 2012 Dual Rectifier, 2020 Dual Rectifier, 2025 Dual Rectifier - other than in the delusional minds of paranoid misinformation vessels in comment sections and YouTube videos around the Internet.

To summarize: Mesa is fine guys. Nothing is changing. Calm down. I know the truth is often not as sexy as reality, and I'm sorry to let facts get in the way of all your hot-takez, but it needed to be said.

-=FAQ=-

Q: "But every brand Gibson has acquired has turned to shit?!"

A: Henry was CEO of Gibson from 1986-2018. No one at Gibson today has anything to do with that. This is apples and oranges. 

Q: "Will anything change about Mesa amps now or in the foreseeable future?"

A: Nope. Everyone involved in designing and building Mesa amps are staying on board. Mesa recently signed long-term lease renewal in Petaluma, California facility and are not going anywhere. Amps built on Dec 31, 2020 are not suddenly difference on Jan 1, 2021.

Q: "I only want a Pre-Gibson Mesa/Boogie!"

A: Again, this will be a narrative re-sellers use to artificially inflate the values of their amps. Nothing is changing. Any suggestion otherwise is a lie.

Q: "[Insert meme here about tubes falling out]"

A: Yes, hilarious and clever. Congrats! 

Q: "Hey, you're a Mesa dealer, so you're biased and thus wrong"

A: Again, don't let the truth get in the way of your hot take. We will be the first to publicly slam Mesa if their quality dips, as we have done with other brands who shall remain nameless. We always are honest with our customers and fans, even at our own detriment sometimes.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 13, 2021)

I gotta feel bad for Nick. He's in the know about this whole ordeal, yet people are still being jackasses to him about it. Seeing people still saying they're boycotting Mesa for "selling out".


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## Spaced Out Ace (Jan 13, 2021)

And which brands did Nick slam?


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## lewis (Jan 14, 2021)

Having read what Nick has written, he has actually talked me around.

Lets at least see whats going to happen before we totally write this move off. If nothing is actually changing in terms of builders. staff and how the amps are built, then less reason to worry about this imo.

and lets be real, most of us sit here bitching about shit like this, but if we were handed a brand new Gibson LP and a new "Gibson" Mesa amp, we would be slaying that thing all the time and likely love em haha


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## p0ke (Jan 14, 2021)

lewis said:


> and lets be real, most of us sit here bitching about shit like this, but if we were handed a brand new Gibson LP and a new "Gibson" Mesa amp, we would be slaying that thing all the time and likely love em haha



Absolutely  TBH I'm not really into LP's but I'd take pretty much anything that says MESA on it any day of the week. But we'll see how it turns out...


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