# Timing/metronome practice



## Transmissions (Jan 21, 2013)

So, i've been playing for a couple of years, can play some veil of maya, periphery, etc, but i've been noticing a problem, if i actually try and play to a song, or record something, _i can't play in time for shit. 
_I really want to change this, fast. I've been doing some scale runs at 60 bpm, 10 'reps' of up, down, and alternate picking, and I'm barely getting results. I'm willing to put hours into this, and know there isn't some magic secret, but is there anyone out there who skipped metronome practice like me, and have any tips, and/or exercises to help me actually get some results? I want to get tight, and actually start putting up cover videos, and recording my own songs, writing isn't a big problem, some more theory would help my playing, but I feel like my biggest hickup is timing, and it's quite infuriating.


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## sear (Jan 21, 2013)

Easiest suggestion is simply to play songs you know slowly, to a metronome. This has the benefit of cleaning up your playing technique in addition to improving your timing.


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## phugoid (Jan 22, 2013)

Transmissions said:


> So, i've been playing for a couple of years, can play some veil of maya, periphery, etc, but i've been noticing a problem, if i actually try and play to a song, or record something, _i can't play in time for shit.
> _I really want to change this, fast. I've been doing some scale runs at 60 bpm, 10 'reps' of up, down, and alternate picking, and I'm barely getting results. I'm willing to put hours into this, and know there isn't some magic secret, but is there anyone out there who skipped metronome practice like me, and have any tips, and/or exercises to help me actually get some results? I want to get tight, and actually start putting up cover videos, and recording my own songs, writing isn't a big problem, some more theory would help my playing, but I feel like my biggest hickup is timing, and it's quite infuriating.



If you can play riffs from those bands, that's a lot of progress for a couple of years' playing. When you come to a forum like this one you run into some absolutely great players - don't be discouraged. You've got your own musical journey to make, and it's no one else's.

The first thing to address is your frustration. Practicing has to be enjoyable and rewarding. You need to set more realistic goals. Maybe pick songs that you find extremely easy to play so that you can focus on your timing. 

I have timing issues as well, and there's no substitute for practicing with a metronome. Not just sixteenth notes at your top speed - slowly as well, and different rhythms. Whole notes (four beats), half notes (two beats), quarter notes, eight notes, eight note triplets, etc.

Take your time 
(pun intended)


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## phugoid (Jan 22, 2013)

Almost forgot: Find a metronome that sounds musical, not some awful chirp or bleet. I recommend Amazon.com: Taktell Piccolino Metronome: Musical Instruments


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## Trespass (Jan 22, 2013)

Imagine technique is a line.

|-------------------------------------------------|
Never touched guitar***************insert guitar god here

So "how do you hold this thing" to I can play *flavor of the week guitarist* licks at lightning speed. You've been working towards the right for the past two years.

Imagine rhythm is a similar line
|-------------------------------------------------|
What's a metronome******************Victor Wooten

You haven't been moving very quickly on that line for the past two years.
But guess what? It demands just as much attention to be proficient as technique. And it's just as important.

How to make those two lines equal? Practice rhythm exercises to a metronome for the same amount of time you've spent practicing technique.

-------

Or just don't worry about it. Pretty much the majority of guitar players ever have bad time. 
You know how, before learning technique, you couldn't really tell Kirt Hammet from Yngwie Malmsteen technically? You can't hear the difference in time now, but if you seriously study time for an equally large period, you'll start hearing how bad most players are.

In fact, finding a guitar player with good time is an exception rather than a rule.


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## Trespass (Jan 22, 2013)

If your serious about improving it, understand what good time is. 
At will, the ability to play ahead of, directly with, or behind the beat with incredible accuracy and consistency.

To be able to imply rhythms with accents. To be able to groove.

In other words, start watching funk bass player videos about groove and pocket and accuracy.


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## thesnowdog (Jan 22, 2013)

Trespass, care to list a few gods, or otherwise, with exceptional rhythm? I'd be interested to see if I can 'hear' the difference.


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## right_to_rage (Jan 22, 2013)

Also make sure to learn from great drummers. This lesson helped me with time a lot, still haven't mastered it like Dante


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## Quikblade (Jan 22, 2013)

Best thing is probably to play with a good drummer or just any other musician that has better timing then you.

I started playing classical guitar and used to play all my songs as a duet with my teacher and ive never had a problem with timing and Ive never really used a metronome.

Obviously this isnt an option for everyone, but if u can its a good one.


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## vienessewaltzer (Jan 22, 2013)

I'd say metronome. I ignored time for a quite a while too, and then when I started learning alternate/weird time signatures I started paying more attention. After playing with metronomes for a while now, I would say that's your best bet. Just keep going, make sure your technique is right, and slow down until you're comfortable moving up in bpm.


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## DaemonRage (Jan 22, 2013)

As a teacher, I'd recommend working at tapping your foot with the metronome and accenting notes with the tap of the foot/click of the metronome. I've had a couple of "Rhythmicly challenged" students who couldn't even do this. I moved directly to having them study rhythm beats, simple stuff which helped them slowly over time... 

Personally, I had issues in the beginning with keeping in time, my guitar teacher was also the band teacher at my high school and was kind enough to get me behind the drum kit and learn drums. This hugely increased my rhythm as a guitar player. I definitely recommend learning drums if you have too much difficultly in keeping in time with a metronome.


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## irondavidson (Jan 22, 2013)

DaemonRage said:


> As a teacher, I'd recommend working at tapping your foot with the metronome and accenting notes with the tap of the foot/click of the metronome. I've had a couple of "Rhythmicly challenged" students who couldn't even do this. I moved directly to having them study rhythm beats, simple stuff which helped them slowly over time...
> 
> Personally, I had issues in the beginning with keeping in time, my guitar teacher was also the band teacher at my high school and was kind enough to get me behind the drum kit and learn drums. This hugely increased my rhythm as a guitar player. I definitely recommend learning drums if you have too much difficultly in keeping in time with a metronome.



I don´t know man. All my teachers told me not to tap with foot during playing, cos you might get so used to it, you won´t be able to play anything without taping all the time. Look stupid when you play live.. 
Then again, i studied in classical music schools and conservatory, but maybe for people in non classical music schools it doesn´t matter too much..

..at least then practice with headbanging on metronome!


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## Transmissions (Jan 22, 2013)

You sir are a genius, I got a lot more feedback than I thought I'd get, which is why i'm starting to love this website. I'm definitely going to watch those videos right now. Also, after a bit of practicing last night(hours...), I started to lock in consistently on my cubase click. 
As phugoid said, I think the sound of the click might make a bit of a difference, the cubase click is a lot harder to follow than the one on metronome.com
Quckiblade: my drummer friend is a bit stoic and his feedback is usually just "sucks" when it comes to trying to record
Daemonrage: now that I remember when i took lessons my guitar had me do that sometimes, it was a struggle, and i usually blew it off. I was thinking just that last night, that I wish I played drums&piano first instead of guitar, would have made things a whole lot easier.


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## irondavidson (Jan 22, 2013)

Also you can try turn the volume of the metronome higher, than you are used to. Its not a joke, many people doesn´t even notice that they don´t hear the click well! 
It has been helping to me..


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## Transmissions (Jan 23, 2013)

irondavidson said:


> Also you can try turn the volume of the metronome higher, than you are used to. Its not a joke, many people doesn´t even notice that they don´t hear the click well!
> It has been helping to me..



Yeah, ive been doing that frequently, maxing out the podfarm volume with headphones really helps


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## Solodini (Jan 23, 2013)

Similarly to what others have said, play around with simple divisions and tap/play them. Integrate rests, as well. Count along to what you're doing. Tapping your foot while playing can become a bad habit but if you're doing it consciously, moving it between limbs and trying it out later without tapping then you should be alright. 

Being well aware of what beat a note falls on/as part of is really important to being able to guide yourself in your rhythmic development so learn to count rhythms well: 1. 2. 3. 1 + 2 + 3 +. 1 e + a 2 e + a 3 e + a. Don't limit yourself to counting in 4. Start with 4 and with 3 then try combining 2s and 3s to give you different numbers of beats. As others said, play about with controlling which beats you accent and see how different accents affect things. 

Write rhythms using a couple of different note values (including rests) and count along to them on repeat so you learn how they might cycle. Play that rhythm on the guitar, starting with one string then moving on to different combinations of the strings. Otherwise you'll limit yourself to only chugging interesting rhythms based on one string and not be able to branch out. An interesting rhythm doesn't need to be complex, though. Check out the kick part from Ruin by Lamb of God or, as mentioned above, any o the many great funk/soul basslines. 

Use these rhythms you create to try to write things similar to the songs you're struggling to stay in time with. It might be that a fragment of the rhythm fits the style, but not all of it. That's fine. You can find what sorts of rhythms are idiomatic to a style of music by simply comparing them and looking out for similar repetition points and ryththmic figures. Periphery seem to be keen on groups of 5 semiquavers over a 4/4 groove, for instance. Try moving these figures to start on different beats/divisions of the beat, see how that affects it and try to work with the results to write something. 

Once you're aware of the rhythmic figures used and what beats the sit at, you should find it easier to lock in. The kanakol method [SchecterWhore post] will probably be a helpful way to count fast rhythms once you've become acquainted with them more slowly. 

Hope that helps some. Let me know if you'd like me to elaborate on anything. The link in my sig may help, too! 

Adam


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## Transmissions (Jan 24, 2013)

Solodini, thank you, you helped me plan out how to spend my free time rather than just trying to play random things in time with my metronome in quarter notes. 
Tapping my foot doesnt feel right to be honest while im playing, but it might as i start to develop internal time, my old guitar teacher would mention try and feel the click in your head or something along the lines of that.
Its almost impossible to do something like make sure this note is on this beat and not just on A beat, guitarpro is becoming a necessity. I really do like the idea of combining timings though.
Rests are starting to be troublesome as i start incorporating them, but i should get the hang of it.
I never did think of analyzing styles like that o.o but i do notice periphery skips around the beat and such to get groove going. 
You sir are a genius, im definitely spending as much time as possible this weekend working on this, because im starting to crave the idea of not being embarrassed to record myself.


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## Solodini (Jan 24, 2013)

Let us know how it works out for ya!


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## phugoid (Jan 24, 2013)

Transmissions said:


> Solodini, thank you, you helped me plan out how to spend my free time rather than just trying to play random things in time with my metronome in quarter notes.
> Tapping my foot doesnt feel right to be honest while im playing, but it might as i start to develop internal time, my old guitar teacher would mention try and feel the click in your head or something along the lines of that.
> Its almost impossible to do something like make sure this note is on this beat and not just on A beat, guitarpro is becoming a necessity. I really do like the idea of combining timings though.
> Rests are starting to be troublesome as i start incorporating them, but i should get the hang of it.
> ...



Another great tip from Victor Wooten is to play the rests as aggressively as you play the notes. Think of that - when it's time for a rest, you chop off your note with the same attack as a pick stroke. It's amazing how much groove you can get from that.

Promise me that before you try to record Periphery covers, you spend some time on the first riff of this song. Nail those rests. If you think it's too easy - try recording it.


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## Transmissions (Jan 24, 2013)

phugoid said:


> Another great tip from Victor Wooten is to play the rests as aggressively as you play the notes. Think of that - when it's time for a rest, you chop off your note with the same attack as a pick stroke. It's amazing how much groove you can get from that.
> 
> Promise me that before you try to record Periphery covers, you spend some time on the first riff of this song. Nail those rests. If you think it's too easy - try recording it.




I feel like I should be offended for you telling me to learn smoke on the water, but you're right  
I have noticed that pick attack, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQP671nPRrI kind of like the beginning of this?


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## Transmissions (Jan 24, 2013)

Also: realllly important, the other day I found out that if you focus on your left ear, you can more easily decipher music, and as i've been practicing, i'm noticing that it's reallllllllllllly helping.


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## phugoid (Jan 25, 2013)

Transmissions said:


> I feel like I should be offended for you telling me to learn smoke on the water, but you're right
> I have noticed that pick attack, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQP671nPRrI kind of like the beginning of this?



That's right. I'm going to see Deep Purple in two weeks, and I'll be playing bad air guitar to that tune like everyone else. There ain't no shame. You'll see more improvements in your rhythm from working on AC/DC than anything else.

The tune from Galactic Pegasus is too fast and too busy to use an exercise right now. Because of the style of riff, you'll sound good even if you're totally off. Pick something a simple groove, with lots of rests. Since we're talking about Victor Wooten, learn the first bass riff to this tune and keep looping those first four bars. (yes, I know you're playing this on guitar) Be sure to record yourself, even if it's on a phone.






Transmissions said:


> Also: realllly important, the other day I found out that if you focus on your left ear, you can more easily decipher music, and as i've been practicing, i'm noticing that it's reallllllllllllly helping.



I never noticed that. Maybe something to try when I'm having a bad day can't play anything.


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## thesnowdog (Jan 25, 2013)

Justin Sandercoe has a "Time Trainer" 'app' that might be of some interest. I haven't used it but have heard good things and it may be of some help with exercises like those in the Wooten video.


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## Zeetwig (Jan 26, 2013)

Some people have problems with practicing to a metronome because it's too "static" and non-musical, so try a drum machine or something. Or if you have garageband, logic or another DAW, just put together a track with drum loops and then play over that. You can use the built-in metronome at the same time if you want too. Also try some air drumming. When listening to music try to play quarter notes with your main hand and stomp on the 1st and 3rd beat, and play the 2nd and 4th beat with the left/secondary hand. If this is too hard then just the right hand, and then add the foot, and so on. Try to feel the groove. You can also count the beats in your head as you go if it feels easier. When you feel comfortable with this then try to spice it up with stomps and hands on other beats, etc, or try to imitate some of the fills. Basically play some air drums.  Then pick up the guitar and try to play the quarter notes on just one string one fret, then play the 1st and 3rd, 2nd and 4th, and then some other combinations. Constantly feel the groove and rhythm. Bob your head if it helps. Use your feet to step out quarter notes. Use whatever makes things easier, and then remove them once your comfortable.

Do this and you'll be like Gene Hoglan in no time! 

This might seem like a lot of work but you can do it as you listen to music.  So if you listen for 30 minutes then bang, you've just practiced for half an hour 

Hope this helps


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## Acreator (Jan 27, 2013)

In addition to all the other advice, I would recommend putting yourself in the situation &#8211; that is, record. Open your DAW, set up a click track for one of your songs or a cover that you know really well, sequence the drum part, and start recording yourself over and over again, listening to every take and evaluating the accuracy and groove of each performance. Not only will this improve your rhythmic accuracy, it will also teach you the value of occasionally rushing & dragging (in a musical way), and of course it will expose other aspects of your playing that you might want to improve (left-hand noise, tone, pick attack, phrasing, etc.).


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## Given To Fly (Jan 27, 2013)

Tapping your foot is a good idea as long as you are aware of that you are doing it and can stop if you need to. In order to be "tight" with the pulse your body has to be moving in someway. Take drummers for example, there is no way to play the drums without swinging your arms and moving your feet. So in general, movement will help with timing/rhythm.

When you practice subdivisions with a metronome, its helpful to have more than 1 pulse sounding. So if you are playing quarter notes, make the metronome tick on the quarter and eighth note beats. This way your ear has a "guide" (the eighth note pulse) which will help you anticipate the next beat.


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## Zeetwig (Jan 28, 2013)

^Both of these excellent tips!


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## robertinventor (Jan 28, 2013)

My Bounce Metronome can go silent as in the Victor Wooten exercises, for as many measures as you like at a time. It's for Windows, but for Mac users etc, I've also uploaded a whole bunch of videos of various exercises you can set it to play.

Try this page, it may help with your tempo. 

How Steady is Your Tempo

There's a whole developed subject of metronome technique, with books on it by Mac Santiago, and Andrew Lewis, and their books are well worth getting if you are serious about using a metronome to help with timing and tempo issues and to work on strengthening your sense of timing, pulse, and steady tempo.

I've got a page about it here: The Vanishing Metronome Click - Burying the Click


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## Transmissions (Jan 28, 2013)

Given To Fly said:


> Tapping your foot is a good idea as long as you are aware of that you are doing it and can stop if you need to. In order to be "tight" with the pulse your body has to be moving in someway. Take drummers for example, there is no way to play the drums without swinging your arms and moving your feet. So in general, movement will help with timing/rhythm.
> 
> When you practice subdivisions with a metronome, its helpful to have more than 1 pulse sounding. So if you are playing quarter notes, make the metronome tick on the quarter and eighth note beats. This way your ear has a "guide" (the eighth note pulse) which will help you anticipate the next beat.




That make's sense, i guess that's why you automatically start tapping your feat or knodding your head when you hear something really groovy. 
I need to figure out how to do that in cubase as i'm using that to play into and record. I'm pretty sure there are samples and stuff that I could download, but this program's pretty complicated.


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