# Muting Techinque on Pedal Points



## TeeWX (Oct 16, 2013)

I have a question related to pedal point riffs, which I play a ton of as they are in pretty much every metal song I can think of. I have gotten very good at muting all excess noise on the higher strings but when playing at high speeds it seems as though you'd almost have to let the palm muted pedal note just kind of ring out. Even though it is muted, my low string is 60 gauge and takes awhile to stop vibrating. Generally for the higher strings I am able to get two points of contact down so that the note is completely dead as I strike the next note. I am using a combination of my middle, ring, and pinky finger on my right hand, as well as returning all four fingertips of my left hand to rest on the active string, with my index finger of my left hand always laying across all higher strings. I don't quite see how I can achieve two points of contact on my lowest string however. It seems that when I play at really high tempos (8th & 16th notes at ~210bpm for example) the "chugs" seem like they get sloppy as there isn't enough time for the note to decay. Now on a fretted note I could relax my finger and have two points of contact but how do you go about open strings? Do you just increase the amount of contact from your palm somehow? Am I hearing some other sort of phenomenon?

Thanks!


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## Solodini (Oct 17, 2013)

Try muting harder, perhaps?


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## alvo (Oct 28, 2013)

What tuning are you in? What is your 60 tuned to? For me I find it easier to palm mute on heavier strings. Just tweak how your palm physically mutes that string until it gets the desired chug.


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## TeeWX (Oct 28, 2013)

alvo said:


> What tuning are you in? What is your 60 tuned to? For me I find it easier to palm mute on heavier strings. Just tweak how your palm physically mutes that string until it gets the desired chug.



It is tuned to C and D. I play in Drop C/D standard. Sometimes B and Db respectively. I don't have an issue with getting a brutal chug sound. I think it's just sounding a bit muddy at high speeds due to maybe having less picking force at those speeds or maybe my 5150 just isn't tight enough?


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## alvo (Oct 28, 2013)

If it gets muddy, you can try dialing your gain back a bit, that'll help with a clearer sound. I don't have experience with the 5150 so I don't know how tight it is


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## Solodini (Oct 29, 2013)

Gain and picking strength sound like part of the issue. From what I have heard of the 5150 it should be fine. Try varying how far along the string you pick, as well.


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## TeeWX (Oct 29, 2013)

Do you generally want to be picking that hard though? Almost all of what I have ever read has told me that in order to achieve speed you should play lightly. Does that only apply to lead? Maybe I just need some time to build my endurance further?


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## somniumaeternum (Oct 29, 2013)

It's not so much about lead = soft picking, rhythm = hard picking. Instead it's really more about the sound that you want. Heavier picking gives more clarity and attack which is typically good for rhythm playing, while lead styles often use a more fluid attack, so lighter picking. There's no rule though (Paul Gilbert comes to mind as an example of picking variations in all different situations).

The bigger a string, the more you have to push the pick through it harder to have it ring out properly. I don't think this is heavy vs light picking, but more of you have to play the string properly, then adjust lighter or heavier from there. 

Something else to consider when playing tight rhythm parts at faster tempos is the shape of your pick. Is it rounded or pointed? I find that a sharper pick tip providers better response when playing in those styles (think of the string "snapping" after the contact instead of following the rounded edges). 

Another thing that comes to mind is your fretting hand strength. This could lead to subtle problems of execution that can make it sound muddier (e.g. hards aren't perfectly synchronised, unwanted variations in volume/tone when switching strings, etc.). 

Without seeing your guitar setup and your technique it's harder to get much more specific than that. Hope it helps.


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## TeeWX (Oct 29, 2013)

somniumaeternum said:


> It's not so much about lead = soft picking, rhythm = hard picking. Instead it's really more about the sound that you want. Heavier picking gives more clarity and attack which is typically good for rhythm playing, while lead styles often use a more fluid attack, so lighter picking. There's no rule though (Paul Gilbert comes to mind as an example of picking variations in all different situations).
> 
> The bigger a string, the more you have to push the pick through it harder to have it ring out properly. I don't think this is heavy vs light picking, but more of you have to play the string properly, then adjust lighter or heavier from there.
> 
> ...



Thank you for your post, that was very helpful!

My pick shape is "rounded" I would say. They are dunlop delrin picks. 1.5mm in thickness. I bought some dunlop "sharp" pointed picks to try but the extra length added by the sharpened point really throws off my playing, I feel like it is a poor design. Any suggestions on a better sharp pick to try that wouldn't have an increased length?


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## somniumaeternum (Oct 29, 2013)

TeeWX said:


> Thank you for your post, that was very helpful!
> 
> My pick shape is "rounded" I would say. They are dunlop delrin picks. 1.5mm in thickness. I bought some dunlop "sharp" pointed picks to try but the extra length added by the sharpened point really throws off my playing, I feel like it is a poor design. Any suggestions on a better sharp pick to try that wouldn't have an increased length?


 
Sure. Check these guys out:

Dunlop Manufacturing :: Guitar Picks :: :: Tortex® Pitch Black Jazz III

I often use these (1mm thickness if I remember now) with really good results. Low profile, quite pointed. If you try them and are used to rounded picks, make sure to experiment with the picking angle - you can approximate a more rounded pick feel with those by tweaking the angle of picking (basically, keep the pick more perpendicular to the string instead of flat). I've also tried some of the more "normal" jazz 3s, and while good, they're usually quite thick and it seems like it dulls up the sound. For metal I didn't like them as much. 

A lot of people love the Dunlop stubbys, and you can find them in the shorter profile too. I liked those but the more my picking technique improved the more I like a flat pick. You can approximate the 3d element of the stubbys by adjusting pick angle, plus the stubby material really made the pick squeak in certain situations. The flat gives you more options imo, but definitely try out and see what feels natural to you.

Something else that I've done in the past and go back and forth on is making your own picks. I start with a material I like (or a normal size pick even), then just sand paper it to whatever height / point profile I want. It's a good way to figure out what you like without buying a lot of super expensive specialty picks.


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## TeeWX (Oct 29, 2013)

Are those picks similar sized to a standard pick? I've tried "Jazz" picks before and they're just too tiny for my hands. But those look different perhaps?


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## somniumaeternum (Oct 29, 2013)

TeeWX said:


> Are those picks similar sized to a standard pick? I've tried "Jazz" picks before and they're just too tiny for my hands. But those look different perhaps?


 
They're around the same size as the jazz 3s. Maybe just try to sand paper out the round ness from your current picks and see if you like them more pointed? That's probably the fastest / cheapest option. The delrin ones are definitely pretty rounded.


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## TeeWX (Oct 29, 2013)

Picks are incredibly cheap. It's really not a big deal if there is something out there that would be better. But jazz III picks are way too small I think.


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## spectrrrrrre (Oct 29, 2013)

Might want to try the Jazz III XLs. They're closer to the size of a regular pick, but they have the sharper tip profile of the normal Jazz IIIs.

Edit: http://www.guitarcenter.com/Dunlop-Jazz-III-XL-Guitar-Picks-6-Pack-105347116-i1176436.gc


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## TeeWX (Oct 29, 2013)

spectrrrrrre said:


> Might want to try the Jazz III XLs. They're closer to the size of a regular pick, but they have the sharper tip profile of the normal Jazz IIIs.
> 
> Edit: Dunlop Jazz III XL Guitar Picks 6-Pack | GuitarCenter



Thanks for the suggestion. I ordered a set of the stiffy version of this pick. They are 1.38mm which should be close enough to my usual 1.5mm thickness. I found some Jazz III regular picks that I bought over a year ago and they definitely have a nice point on them. Just a bit too small like I remembered.


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## Paul Reed Shred (Oct 30, 2013)

Also, if you're used to the size of standard/ rounded teardrop picks, try Dunlop Tortex TIII. Jazz shape and point, with the multiple thicknesses and larger size of normal picks. Dunlop Tortex T3 Sharp Tip Guitar Picks 12-Pack | Musician&#39;s Friend


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## TeeWX (Oct 30, 2013)

Paul Reed Shred said:


> Also, if you're used to the size of standard/ rounded teardrop picks, try Dunlop Tortex TIII. Jazz shape and point, with the multiple thicknesses and larger size of normal picks. Dunlop Tortex T3 Sharp Tip Guitar Picks 12-Pack | Musician's Friend



Those look great but I wish they came in thicker sizes. A thin sharp pick almost doesn't make sense.


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## K3V1N SHR3DZ (Oct 31, 2013)

Try the Dunlop Ultex Jazz III. They make them in 1.38mm and 2.0mm versions and the grip is awesome. They have a very pronounced pick attack. 


As to the low notes not decaying fast enough, have you tried any or all of the following?
1. "choke up" on your palm mutes, ie move your picking hand SLIGHTLY closer to the neck. This will help with chugs.
2. Using the tip of your finger (fret hand) to mute the open string. In the example below, when I fretted the 7 & 10, I would allow the tip of my finger to touch the low B, so that it was muted while the fretted notes rang. 


E|----------------------|
B|----------------------|
G|----------------------|
D|----------------------|
A|----------------------|
E|-----7-----10---------|
B|-0-0---0-0----0-0----|

3. (related to #1) Pushing down harder with your picking hand, or rolling it slightly toward the neck to add extra mute when needed.

I find that a combination of these methods will usually improve pedal-tone riffs.


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## TeeWX (Oct 31, 2013)

K3V1N SHR3DZ said:


> Try the Dunlop Ultex Jazz III. They make them in 1.38mm and 2.0mm versions and the grip is awesome. They have a very pronounced pick attack.
> 
> 
> As to the low notes not decaying fast enough, have you tried any or all of the following?
> ...



I like this idea for a technique, but my problem is that say you have something like the following...

E|----------------------|
B|----------------------|
G|----------------------|
D|----------------------|
A|----------9----7------|
E|-----7----------------|
B|-0-0---0----0----0---|

The problem then becomes how do you employ the same technique when your skipping over a string? Or maybe you're even skipping several strings. You could try to play everything as if you were using the rolling technique, but that seems like a lot of practice.

***Although, I only remember having this issue on the string right next to the one open string I'm pedaling on. I think this is because when I skip over a string or more, my palm covers a significantly larger portion of the string automatically, and could make the technique you mentioned only required for adjacent strings!

Thanks for the pick suggestion. But I think the jazz III pick size is way too small for me. I have the jazz III XL picks in 1.38mm coming my way though very soon.







I found the above picture from a review of them, and they look to be the same size as a regular dunlop pick. The grip area extends a bit higher, but the length of the point seems to be the same. So I would think that when I grab the pick it will be the same as if I were using a normal pick. I've used those same Gator Grip picks for a while and while I love them, they wear down incredibly fast. But I love the size.


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## redstone (Oct 31, 2013)

If you're looking for a pointy jazz pick that doesn't cling on strings, try the - very expensive and durable - bluechip jazz. Sounds rounder at equal thickness than dunlop jazz picks though. A bit more fuller/bassier than the ultex... Might help or might not..


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## K3V1N SHR3DZ (Oct 31, 2013)

Dunlop also makes "sharp" picks, which are pointy like a Jazz III, but normal sized. Literally a sharper normal pick. I don't know about delrin, but they make tortex and ultex.


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## tedtan (Oct 31, 2013)

I can vouch for the Blue Chips - they're great picks, but they're not cheap.


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## TeeWX (Oct 31, 2013)

tedtan said:


> I can vouch for the Blue Chips - they're great picks, but they're not cheap.



What makes them worth the price of $50 each? Do they never wear out? Is there a tracking device inside to help you find which pants pocket you left it in?


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## tedtan (Nov 1, 2013)

Firstly, the price is due to the material they're made from, which is outrageously expensive (you can see that a 10"x10"x1/4" sheet is over $4,000 here). And due to the material cost, the thicker the pick, the higher the price. I use the TD50, which, at ~1.25 mm, is $35. The 2 mm picks, like the jazz you saw, are $50. Having said that, the material is very stiff, so you don't have to use thicker picks to get a nice, responsive pick like with most materials. The thicker picks just sound a bit fatter (less highs) and may (or may not) feel better to hold, depending on what you are accustomed to using.

But as for why they are worth the price to us, the players, they don't seem to wear. Like, at all. I'm still using the same one I bought a year and a half ago and it shows no signs of wear, even though it splits it's time between acoustic and electric (I actually used the small Ultex jazz picks on electric before I got the Blue Chip). These picks are not sticky, but seems to stick to your fingers so they're hard to drop, even though they glide over the strings extremely smoothly. They make almost no "click" when they strike the strings like most other pics do. And the speed bevel kills - it feels like a perfectly worn in pick. So if you don't tend to lose pics, these are a great option (but the way I am with pics live, I would find something else to use in live situations). They have a money back guarantee if you don't like them, but you'd still be out ~$5 for shipping.


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## redstone (Nov 1, 2013)

That's a very accurate review !


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