# Diminished 5th ?



## jymellis (Dec 27, 2009)

well i keep seeing in threads about diminished chords and diminished 5ths and so on. i dont fully understand (i dont think) could someone please show me in tab or in a tab. a diminished 5th. can you diminish all chords? any links to some dininished chords?

oh yeah, i do have guitar pro 5.2 if you have a guitar pro tab or can write somethin in one for me.


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## Winspear (Dec 27, 2009)

I think Diminished 5th is the same as the flattened 5th aka tritone. Play a powerchord and move the middle note down 1 fret (eg 3-4-5). That nasty chord that you'll know very well if you like Opeth


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## jymellis (Dec 27, 2009)

like say e ------1 or--------1 instead of- --------1---------------
-------a-------2----------2--------------------3--------------------
-------d-------------------3-------------------------------------
-------g------------------------------------------------------------------ 
-------b--------------------------------------------------------------
-------e-----------------------------------------------------------------


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## liquidcow (Dec 27, 2009)

'Diminished' means 'flattened', or in other words lowered by a semitone. 'Augmented' on the other hand, means 'raised', as in a semitone higher than normal.

So a diminished fifth just means a fifth that is a semitone flatter than a regular one (i.e. a space of six semitones rather than seven). As EtherealEntity says, play a regular powerchord shape and move the middle note down a fret and you have a diminished fifth.

A diminished chord consists of a diminished fifth and a minor third on top of the root note, hence it's a minor chord with a flat fifth.


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## Winspear (Dec 27, 2009)

jymellis said:


> like say e ------1 or--------1 instead of- --------1---------------
> -------a-------2----------2--------------------3--------------------
> -------d-------------------3-------------------------------------
> -------g------------------------------------------------------------------
> ...


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## Mr. Big Noodles (Dec 27, 2009)

liquidcow said:


> 'Diminished' means 'flattened', or in other words lowered by a semitone. 'Augmented' on the other hand, means 'raised', as in a semitone higher than normal.
> 
> So a diminished fifth just means a fifth that is a semitone flatter than a regular one (i.e. a space of six semitones rather than seven). As EtherealEntity says, play a regular powerchord shape and move the middle note down a fret and you have a diminished fifth.



To add to this, lowering a half step turns a perfect interval into a diminished interval. Lowering a major interval by a half step turns it into a _minor_ interval.

The major and perfect intervals are:

Major second
Major third
Perfect fourth
Perfect fifth
Major sixth
Major seventh
Perfect octave



A major second is quite simply a whole step.

```
E-5-7
```

Lowering the top note gives you a minor second, or half step.

```
E-5-6
```


A major third is two whole steps.

```
E-5-9
```

Lower the top note to get a minor third.

```
E-5-8
```


Perfect fourth, five half steps.

```
E-5-10
```

Lowering it gives you a diminished fourth, which is the same as a major third.

```
A--4
E-5-
```


A perfect fifth is seven half steps.

```
A--7
E-5-
```

A diminished fifth:

```
A--6
E-5-
```


Major sixth.

```
A--9
E-5-
```

Minor sixth.

```
A--8
E-5-
```


Major seventh.

```
D--6
A-
E-5-
```

Minor seventh.

```
D--5
A-
E-5
```


Perfect octave.

```
D--7
A-
E-5-
```

Diminished octave (same as major seventh).

```
D--6
A-
E-5-
```

-----------------------

Lowering a minor interval results in a diminished interval. These are enharmonic, so I'm just going to write the interval names.

Diminished second - same as unison
Diminished third - same as major second
Diminished sixth - same as perfect fifth
Diminished seventh - same as major sixth

-----------------------

Augmented intervals are intervals that are raised (sharpened) from either a perfect interval or a major interval.

So, an augmented second (same as minor third):

```
E-5-8
```

Augmented third (same as perfect fourth):

```
A--5
E-5-
```

Augmented fourth (same as diminished fifth):

```
A--6
E-5-
```

Augmented fifth (same as minor sixth):

```
A--8
E-5-
```

Augmented sixth (same as minor seventh):

```
D--5
A-
E-5-
```

Augmented seventh (same as perfect octave; you'll never hear anyone say "augmented seventh", unless they mean an augmented chord with a seventh):

```
D--7
A-
E-5
```

Augmented octave (same as a minor ninth, which is a minor second plus an octave):

```
D--8
A-
E-5
```





As far as diminished chords go, there are three of them that you need to worry about: the diminished triad, half-diminished seventh (also called minor 7 flat 5), and diminished seventh. I'll do these arpeggiated first.

Diminished triad:

```
A C Eb (A)
D------(7)
A----6
E-5-8
```

Half-diminished:

```
A C Eb G (A)
D-----5-(7)
A----6
E-5-8
```

Fully diminished:

```
A C Eb Gb (A)
D---------(7)
A-----6-9
E-5-8
```



Here are some common chord shapes (I'm naming the notes from lowest to highest):

Diminished triad:

```
C° - C Eb Gb

e-
b-7
G-8
D-10
A-
E-
```


Half-diminished:

```
Cø7 - C Gb Bb Eb

e-
b-4
G-3
D-4
A-3
E-
```

Or, another shape:

```
Gø7 - G Db F Bb

e-
b-
G-3
D-3
A-4
E-3
```


Diminished seventh:

```
F#°7 - F# C Eb A

e-5
b-4
G-5
D-4
A-
E-
```


If you want to construct these chords, here are the formulae:


Diminished triad - 1 b3 b5 (That is, root, minor third, diminished fifth)

Half-diminished seventh - 1 b3 b5 b7 (root, minor third, diminished fifth, minor seventh)

Diminished seventh - 1 b3 b5 bb7 (root, minor third, diminished fifth, diminished seventh)


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## JohnIce (Jan 2, 2010)

+1 to what SchecterWhore described. Understanding music theory is a lot of work, so I'd suggest that if you're interested in theoretical questions like this, go all the way and take theory lessons. You're better off starting from the beginning, than trying to patch these things together from different angles at random.

Anyway, a diminished chord can also be called an "unfinished dominant". This is because the diminished chord (the 7th chord in the key) consists of the last three notes in that key's dominant chord. In the key of C, for example, G7 is the dominant. G7 consists of G, B, D and F. Take away the root note, G, and you get a B diminished chord. A B diminished chord with a G in the bass creates the sound of a G7. This is why a Bdim can be called an unfinished dominant, because it's the same chord as the dominant but with one note less.

This means that a G7 and a Bdim both lead very strongly to the the tonic, C.

One fun thing to do with diminished chords, is that since they consist of only minor thirds, you can slide a diminished chord up and down three frets at a time (minor thirds) along the entire neck. This is a simple and effective way to create tension in songs.


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