# Why are so many guitarists going to fishman?



## SatanicToaster

For the past few months, a large number of guitarists (Tosin Abasi, KSE, Will Adler, Head, Fluff, etc) have been joining Fishman pickups, claiming that their sound is completely different and refined. With Keith Merrow posting a picture on his instagram showing that he was installing some fishmans in his guitar and saying that he has left Seymour Duncan (which is news, considering he was basically an ambassador for them), I feel as though Fishman will continue getting more guitarists from the metal community. My question is why is this shift towards fishman occurring? Havn't the pickups been around for some time? Some are saying that Ken Susi has been responsible because of his ties. But do pickups really offer this much as they're said to and how did this rapid change occur? What do you guys think? I personally feel that these pickups will become the new EMGs and the number of artists in Fishman's arsenal will continue growing, which will add to their popularity and growth


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## rexbinary

Money most likely. Not that everyone is total sell outs. But I can see being bored with your current stuff, along comes some kinda new pickups you kinda dig, and you get offered money to switch.


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## SatanicToaster

Yea but would a smaller, younger company like Fishman really have the money for their growing number of endorsers


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## MaxOfMetal

SatanicToaster said:


> Yea but would a smaller, younger company like Fishman really have the money for their growing number of endorsers



Fishman has been around for almost 40 years and has been a fairly significant OEM of guitar electronics components for easily the last 25 or so. 

They're new to high output "metal" pickups, but they're in no way new or small.

I have a feeling that they're offering really great pricing to companies like ESP to push thier artists towards them. That's nothing new, EMG did (and still does) that in the 90's.


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## SatanicToaster

oh man, my bad, should of read before saying something like that


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## Tisca

I don't know but they sure have my attention. I see all these artists using them but no customers or hype on msg boards.

Can someone give me crash course in Fishmans? They're (all) active with different voicings you can switch?


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## Discoqueen

Because fishmen=fisher-of-men?


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## BillCosby

I mean, I guess it's possible that they just sound really good. Or is that not a factor anymore?


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## KnightBrolaire

Tosin a/bing the ionizers vs the fluence: 
https://www.instagram.com/p/BP_xnd_D...sinabasi&hl=en
BKP vs Fluence: 
https://www.instagram.com/p/BP_85lZD...sinabasi&hl=en

This is why.


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## frank falbo

rexbinary said:


> Money most likely. Not that everyone is total sell outs. But I can see being bored with your current stuff, along comes some kinda new pickups you kinda dig, and you get offered money to switch.



While this may be the easiest conclusion to reach, it would be 100% false. I could tell you some stories. Well, I can't tell you the stories...but if I could...


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## btbg

frank falbo said:


> While this may be the easiest conclusion to reach, it would be 100% false. I could tell you some stories. Well, I can't tell you the stories...but if I could...



How credible.


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## gunch

It's new and exiting(tm)


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## Hollowway

It's a lot of hype, too. People will all jump on the bandwagon, they'll be super hot for a while, and then no one will care. I remember when everyone HAD to have Aftermaths in everything. Then no one wanted them. Same with so many others.


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## Hollowway

btbg said:


> How credible.



The man does know his stuff. He'd be the one to answer this question, if you actually wanted the insider's view.


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## russmuller

btbg said:


> How credible.



Considering that Frank is one of the developers of the Fluence system and is probably under a number of NDA's, yes. Highly credible.


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## USMarine75

Because they sound good. I spent hours A/B'ing them (at Axe Palace) and they handled everything the BKPs and other pickups we tried could do, but were far more versatile.

My advice is play them against your fav pickup through same rig and you be the judge.

However, I'm sure aggressive endorsements are also a factor.


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## patdavidmusic

I really think it's got to be a great tone, for $$ sure maybe one artist or two, but a whole fleet of artists coming over it's gotta be the quality 


I'm pumped to try these out next month, I haven't had a chance to play them in Oz yet, so I've decided to or the classic set and the modern set,

I'll be doing A/B tests with other pickups and various clean / crunch / heavy demos on my channel, what a time to be alive for a guitarist


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## rebornself27

I've been considering the fluence modern .would I have to route my pickup cavity to fit it in like emgs? Or is it passive sized?.


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## KnightBrolaire

rebornself27 said:


> I've been considering the fluence modern .would I have to route my pickup cavity to fit it in like emgs? Or is it passive sized?.



active sized.


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## patdavidmusic

KnightBrolaire said:


> active sized.



I thought the classic and modern six were the same size?
On the website "Drop right in and replace standard humbucker pickups."

http://www.fishman.com/products/series/fluence/fluence-modern-humbucker-pickup/

http://www.fishman.com/products/series/fluence/fluence-classic-humbucker-pickup/


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## runbirdman

The market for gear is already flooded with products that some are going to call "snake oil" (i.e. sonic maximizer, high end boutique tube screamer clones, etc.). 

With that being said, I went and tried a guitar equipped with the SRC Fluence set and was impressed with the sound of the set.There is already quite a bit of material available on the forums about the Fluence line already. I just ordered two sets of Moderns to replace a set of EMG 81s and a set of Juggernauts. You have to discount the endorsee reviews to some extent but I have yet to hear a review of the line that is negative in regards to versatility. Some people may not like the tone but the ground you can cover with one set of pickups is pretty remarkable.


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## Nag

Hollowway said:


> It's a lot of hype, too. People will all jump on the bandwagon, they'll be super hot for a while, and then no one will care. I remember when everyone HAD to have Aftermaths in everything. Then no one wanted them. Same with so many others.




/thread.


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## blacai

So, considering I have no idea about this pickups, I just saw lot of reviews showing how they sound and how amazing they are...

If I get it, they are active pickups ("Are rechargeable on your guitar. Optional lithium-ion battery pack offers weeks, not hours, of playing time.")

That means they would only fit in guitars with battery box? 
How big is the battery? Are there fishman (highouput) PU that don't need it?


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## runbirdman

They require a 9v or an optional rechargeable battery pack. If a guitar could be equipped with EMGs without routing it can most likely fit the Fluences with the only difference being the push pull pots required for all the switching you can do. Neither of my guitars had to have a battery box and even with two push pulls, the battery fits. It all depends on the guitar and control cavity.


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## patdavidmusic

blacai said:


> So, considering I have no idea about this pickups, I just saw lot of reviews showing how they sound and how amazing they are...
> 
> If I get it, they are active pickups ("Are rechargeable on your guitar. Optional lithium-ion battery pack offers weeks, not hours, of playing time.")
> 
> That means they would only fit in guitars with battery box?
> How big is the battery? Are there fishman (highouput) PU that don't need it?



It's not so much that they are just active it's that there's no copper windings inside the pickups any more, there a core of layerings,

search youtube for better explanations, but this is a new way of making pickups


they make rechargable packs for strats and gibsons


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## blacai

Thanks for the clarification. 


So, as long as the cavity is big enough to place the 9v battery or using one of the rechargeable packs there is no need to modify the guitar.



Looks cool, nice idea.


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## angl2k

I'm not sure why the guitarists you've mentioned use Fishman pickups lately but for me it was about trying something new instead of the good ol' EMG or SD active pups.

That being said I'm completely happy about the Fluence Modern, it really sounds like a more refined active pickup. Not sure if it's just the pickup voicing itself or a result of the unique construction.


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## Tisca

angl2k said:


> I'm not sure why the guitarists you've mentioned use Fishman pickups lately but for me it was about trying something new instead of the good ol' EMG or SD active pups.
> 
> That being said I'm completely happy about the Fluence Modern, it really sounds like a more refined active pickup. Not sure if it's just the pickup voicing itself or a result of the unique construction.



Then what did you use and like before these?


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## Drew

btbg said:


> How credible.



Frank had a hand in designing them, and the only reason I'm not just writing them off as the recent "flavor of the month" trend like Kiesel or Bareknuckle is that I've known him for years, and anything he had a hand in I'm at least going to hear out, because he's that good. 

So, yeah, he's pretty credible.


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## bostjan

Wow, what a thread...

I honestly don't care which pickups these guys are using, but I'd love to try out a set of these, simply because they are different, and I like trying things that are different. Maybe they are for me, or maybe not, but trying them on for size couldn't hurt anything. Maybe these endorsements came from people trying out these pickups and actually liking them. 

I've used Fishman piezos for a long time; I was impressed by them the first time I tried them, and it never wore off. I consider this a company who is likely to make a product that I could use. That's not to say I'd write this product off if it were marketed by a company that I don't hold in high regard, but I think that it might give this a little more promise.

I felt pretty excited about Q Tuners at first, but I never managed to get my hands on them... oh well.

If you are totally happy with your pickups, of course, then I guess there's nothing to see here.


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## Quiet Coil

Even though I've got Moderns and Classics in 4 of my guitars I'm still not 100% sold. I prefer to use them with the hi frequency tilt on which negates what I'm sure a lot of these artists like about them (hence most if not all of the sig sets don't include the "tilt" option).

They're definitely a different beast from the pickups I'm used to.

EDIT: And yeah, Frank's the boss. He did the P-Rails with Duncan as well. Come to think of it, I preferred only one of the different primary sounds those were designed for and it's kind of the same case here.


I play most often with distortion and moderate gain but I've found that the different voices really shine when playing clean.


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## angl2k

Tisca said:


> Then what did you use and like before these?



Used an EMG 81 for a while, then switched to a SD JB which is on my main axe. Tuned to E standard or drop D. Playing thrash and hard rock.

For lower tunings I use a BKP Juggernaut in my 7 string Ibanez and used a SD Blackout for a while in drop C. Juggernaut is a bit bass heavy for my liking and the Blackout was pure mud.

Tried the Modern in E standard and in drop C for a while. I liked it in E standard a lot but it was not too different from a JB. It's a lot clearer than the JB when tuning lower though.

Currently experimenting with it in beadf#b tuning but I'm having intonation issues on my 6 string. It still sounds crystal clear though on the low strings.


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## rexbinary

frank falbo said:


> While this may be the easiest conclusion to reach, it would be 100% false. I could tell you some stories. Well, I can't tell you the stories...but if I could...



Darn too bad. I guess I'll just continue to believe the world revolves around money in ignorance.


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## juka

So you are only allowed to play Fishman Fluence when you are a buddy of Ken Susi and get paid top dollars for it???

I knew something was wrong! I play them just because I like how they sound and I even paid a lot of money for them. Stupid me!!!


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## Tisca

If these are active, do they lack dynamics? Closer to EMGs or passives? I have a set of EMG 57/66 which are more dynamic than 8X but still not as close to passives as I'd like.


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## Yodel

Tisca said:


> If these are active, do they lack dynamics? Closer to EMGs or passives? I have a set of EMG 57/66 which are more dynamic than 8X but still not as close to passives as I'd like.



They have good response to picking and rolling back the volume (can't comment on the tone pot since I don't have one on my Fishmanned Caparison). My Fryette goes from break-uppy cleans to full-on gain in the "active" voice, the dual voicing gives extra room for that of course.

Then again most people on the internet bitching about "sterile EMGs lacking dynamics" wouldn't know dynamics if they bit them in the ass...


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## knispler

Maybe the new way of Fishman building pickups is one of the revolutions in guitar building. I mean, we are in 2017 and try to build everything like in 1954 with only minor changes?

Have not played them, so I can not say anything about their quality...


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## Stuck_in_a_dream

I'm kind of surprised at the amount of skepticism I see here that does NOT seem to be based on personal experience. It's one thing if you tried them out and didn't like them, sure. But another to doubt the success and attribute it to other 'hidden' factors without even trying them. 

Assuming there's $$$ involved, how did this strategy work for other companies in the past? Probably not very well. And EMG can put 81s in as many guitars as they want, I always change that on arrival, sometimes to other EMGs , it doesn't matter but you get the point. Another thing is, money is not exclusive to Fishman, if Fishman can offer $x I'm sure other companies can offer double the amount, so I think we cannot attribute the recent success to that.

My understanding of the new Fluence line, is that we are finally witnessing what many people here have been asking EMG to do for ages, which is to allow for multiple response curves in their active preamps. Hopefully that brings us closer to a completely programmable pickup. Watching Tosin talking about how his sig was being tweaked right before his eyes confirms it. 

Before you ask, yes, I own 2 Alnico modern 7s, they not just sound awesome in both voicings, but their single coil sound is great as well.


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## Hywel

I love the Fluence Modern set in my 26" scale 6 string. They are genuinely decent, versatile pickups. The coil splits, voicings, HF tilt and gain reduction controls make them massively flexible and they don't sound like an "active" pickup unless you want them to.


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## jerm

I just got BKP's. Now you're telling me I need to get on the Fishman Train. Damn.


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## MaxOfMetal

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> Assuming there's $$$ involved, how did this strategy work for other companies in the past? Probably not very well.


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## Stuck_in_a_dream

MaxOfMetal said:


>



Glad I'm contributing to your pursuit of happiness, but elaborating would be .


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## Andromalia

There's something new on the market, and professional musicians are like us: "ooooh, shiny", especially since getting new pickups isn't exactly a heavy investment.
And as a brand starting in this kind of pickups, they are likely more willing to give endorsements to less known musicians because, you know, EMG has James F. Hetfield and half the record top sellers of the last three decades in metal on their roster already.

At least it's a buzz about some specs, while the BKP buzz was pretty idootic, @ "what BKP should I buy" even if the best offering for your genre was something by diMarzio or other. Like, if you want the BKP sounding closest to a PAF, buy a damn PAF instead. As a Lundgren M6 owner, I can tell you that boutique pickups sound good, but they don't sound better than any decades-tested mass produced pickup like EMGs, duncans or Di Marzios. There are enough good and cheap pickups to have different models to test for a lifetime at this point.

Also, due to the nature of their business, youtubers *have* to get soemthing new to talk about on a fairly regular basis. In the industry they're called influencers and are very well treated. (My job is partly about dsaling with them, in another field that also relies heavily on youtubers for advertising, ie computer/console gaming)


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## marcwormjim

This is a slightly off-topic response to the previous post, but why is Steve Terreberry still alive?


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## narad

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> Glad I'm contributing to your pursuit of happiness, but elaborating would be .



You said it didn't work out very well, but it's worked out extremely well and is practically the basis for how products are launched these days (not limited to the guitar world). You think everyone just all of a sudden independently discovered Beats were great sounding headphones?


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## SqWark

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> *I'm kind of surprised at the amount of skepticism I see here that does NOT seem to be based on personal experience. It's one thing if you tried them out and didn't like them, sure. But another to doubt the success and attribute it to other 'hidden' factors without even trying them.*
> .



Yeah, it's so odd to me. Almost like guys are reading these threads and thinking, "Great! A topic on something I know absolutely nothing about. Better rush to share my opinion."


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## narad

SqWark said:


> Yeah, it's so odd to me. Almost like guys are reading these threads and thinking, "Great! A topic on something I know absolutely nothing about. Better rush to share my opinion."



Yea, welcome to the internet.

But moreover if you think it's about the sound of the pickups themselves, you might find it weird if people who have never played them are commenting. If you think it's about marketing, then there's no reason to need to play them. Or, in another example, tentative thread title for last year: "Why are so many guitarists going to ProTone Pedals?" -- where similarly they were all given sig products immediately...


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## SqWark

narad said:


> Yea, welcome to the internet.
> 
> But moreover if you think it's about the sound of the pickups themselves, you might find it weird if people who have never played them are commenting. If you think it's about marketing, then there's no reason to need to play them. Or, in another example, tentative thread title for last year: "Why are so many guitarists going to ProTone Pedals?" -- where similarly they were all given sig products immediately...



Agreed! I just get too invested in all of this anymore. Regardless of the fact that I am reading this while practicing on one of my 6 string Schecter's (with Fishman Fluence Moderns) or that later on today I'm doing a pickup install on one of my 7 strings.


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## narad

SqWark said:


> Agreed! I just get too invested in all of this anymore. Regardless of the fact that I am reading this while practicing on one of my 6 string Schecter's (with Fishman Fluence Moderns) or that later on today I'm doing a pickup install on one of my 7 strings.



And I find it useful to hear about guys on the forum making the switch -- what pickups Tosin switches to means nothing to me, but if you and other guys on here are preferring fishman over say EMG 57s, I definitely try to keep a mental tally about that. I think it boils down to:
-- Why are so many professional guitarists going to fishman? Money.
-- Why are so many guitarists here going to fishman? Because they like the sound.


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## SqWark

narad said:


> And I find it useful to hear about guys on the forum making the switch -- what pickups Tosin switches to means nothing to me, but if you and other guys on here are preferring fishman over say EMG 57s, I definitely try to keep a mental tally about that. I think it boils down to:
> -- *Why are so many professional guitarists going to fishman? Money.*
> -- Why are so many guitarists here going to fishman? Because they like the sound.



I just don't know if you can make that statement. I think most of the famous and professional guitarists are on the same tone seeking quest that the rest of us are on. I can't see them making that much off of their signature pickups and guitars and definitely not enough to compromise the quality of their tone. I'm thinking of guys like Jeff Loomis and Devin Townsend. Successful,working musicians no doubt about it, but probably not close to retiring off of what they earn from their signature products.

I dunno. What do you think?


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## narad

SqWark said:


> I just don't know if you can make that statement. I think most of the famous and professional guitarists are on the same tone seeking quest that the rest of us are on. I can't see them making that much off of their signature pickups and guitars and definitely not enough to compromise the quality of their tone. I'm thinking of guys like Jeff Loomis and Devin Townsend. Successful,working musicians no doubt about it, but probably not close to retiring off of what they earn from their signature products.
> 
> I dunno. What do you think?



Two coins to that -- "probably not close to retiring" is kind of the point. It's hard to make a lot of money as a professional guitar playing in the genre of "music for guitar players." Tosin's buying a Porsche. Other guys have families, etc. Big costs, and income modest enough to probably surprise a lot of people.

Now, I'm not suggesting anyone is deliberately choosing to have worse tone so as to get financial compensation. It's just kind of one of those variables that isn't going to make a huge amount of difference to their live shows etc.

And I'm not claiming we know why each artist switched, but you know everyone with a sig pickups is getting a cut. You know everyone with a sig guitar with Fishmans is getting a cut. I would just suggest to be realistic about why people change brands. These guys need to make a living, and it's not like they get to work overtime, or hope for a Christmas bonus. I mean, this is the way the world works -- why would one have a strong belief that -- only in the guitar market -- high publicity endorsements aren't primarily motivated by financial considerations?


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## SqWark

narad said:


> Two coins to that -- "probably not close to retiring" is kind of the point. It's hard to make a lot of money as a professional guitar playing in the genre of "music for guitar players." Tosin's buying a Porsche. Other guys have families, etc. Big costs, and income modest enough to probably surprise a lot of people.
> 
> Now, I'm not suggesting anyone is deliberately choosing to have worse tone so as to get financial compensation. It's just kind of one of those variables that isn't going to make a huge amount of difference to their live shows etc.
> 
> And I'm not claiming we know why each artist switched, but you know everyone with a sig pickups is getting a cut. You know everyone with a sig guitar with Fishmans is getting a cut. I* would just suggest to be realistic about why people change brands*. These guys need to make a living, and it's not like they get to work overtime, or hope for a Christmas bonus. I mean, this is the way the world works -- why would one have a strong belief that -- only in the guitar market -- high publicity endorsements aren't primarily motivated by financial considerations?



Do you know the difference between, "Reality" and, "Pure Speculation"?


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## katsumura78

I'm ready to hear some proper demo's of these sig pickups. They must be pretty good for so many guitar players to make the switch.


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## jc986

I tried a set of Fluence Modern 7's in an LTD SC-607b. They sounded good, but not a ton different than the EMG 81-7's or the Seymour Duncan Retributions that I had in that guitar. They were closer to the Retributions, but all three pickups sounded close enough that most would have a hard time picking out which pickup in a blind test. I didn't find the clarity or dynamics to be much different. 

That said, I just connected them to the original EMG wiring, so I did not take advantage of the lower output voicings or the coil taps, so obviously that is an advantage over the existing market of active (and passive) pickups. However, for that guitar I would never have used the other voicings. 

I would not hesitate to use them in another guitar, but wouldn't go out of my way to switch to them.


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## narad

SqWark said:


> Do you know the difference between, "Reality" and, "Pure Speculation"?



It is equally pure speculation to say that they aren't switching for financial compensation, so I'm not sure I see your point. And on the flip side, we know they're being financially compensated, and this is the de facto practice for product launching in countless other industries. You act like this isn't a proven marketing practice.


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## mnemonic

Kinda odd how a bunch of seemingly unrelated musicians are suddenly all endorsed by the same brand. Reminds me of how back in the mid 2000's, suddenly everyone was endorsed by Krank amps and then just as suddenly as they appeared, they disappeared. 

Maybe they're great pickups but it's naiive to assume that someone who gets paid to flog equipment is not doing it because they're getting paid.


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## coffeeflush

A very small section of artists is actually sponsored by fishman. 
This small set of artists are the ones that SSO follows the most, so to someone at SSO it seems like a big deal. 

I just think people are switching because this makes it convenient for lot of touring artists, they can have more tones while carrying less guitars. There are still lot of players using SD, Dimarzio etc. 

Why is this hard to accept ?


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## patdavidmusic

Not to completely change this topic in this thread, but i've got a set of the Tosin Fluence 6 stringers coming in the next month, is there any particular demonstrations that people would like to see?

Certainly not particular songs but perhaps tones or a/b's?


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## marcwormjim

I'd appreciate it. 

Just please don't use the pretense of a pickup demo to show off your Axe FX djent patches with 20 effects on the cleans, or the five shred runs you practiced leading up to filming. A clean amp or direct recording of each "mode" would be great, followed by a crunch/lead tone that isn't a compressor into a boutique OD pedal into a 10-band EQ into a scooped metal amp with stereo delays. We want to hear how the pickups sound - Any other gear, and even your most impressive licks, have been covered by every other guy using YouTube to present his ass to upstart companies combing social media, in the hope they'll be eager to send him free gear to "review."


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## patdavidmusic

marcwormjim said:


> I'd appreciate it.
> 
> Just please don't use the pretense of a pickup demo to show off your Axe FX djent patches with 20 effects on the cleans, or the five shred runs you practiced leading up to filming. A clean amp or direct recording of each "mode" would be great, followed by a crunch/lead tone that isn't a compressor into a boutique OD pedal into a 10-band EQ into a scooped metal amp with stereo delays. We want to hear how the pickups sound - Any other gear, and even your most impressive licks, have been covered by every other guy presenting his ass to prospective companies in the hopes they'll send him free gear to "review."



But but, that's what I was going to do 
I'll just be running them into a marshall style amp (mi audio iron duke) a vox style (reynolds jfr 25), no eq everything to twelve, zero djents and shreds just hoping to highlight the clarity that i keep hearing about

half the reason i'm ordering them is because of the issues you mentioned


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## Stuck_in_a_dream

Well, in the Tosin Fishman thread, I jokingly mentioned that 2 of the new Fishman sigs were for guitarists who were previously using SD. Tosin was working with SD since winter NAMM 2016, Adler used SD. 

Now in the recent Instagram posts from Keith Merrow, he said that he is trying the Fishman Modern 7, but also said that he's *no longer with SD*!!!!!!!! So, there might be something SD related after all.

On topic, no one really knows why all of these artists switched to Fluence pickups. IMHO, I don't think these particular players (e.g. Tosin, Townsend) are the kind of players who would compromise their tone/music for cash. The 2 voicing thing could be attractive for live playing among other things, again who knows. 

Looking forward to hearing demos of the Tosin sig. +1 for DI files & minimal fx.


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## marcwormjim

patdavidmusic said:


> half the reason i'm ordering them is because of the issues you mentioned



And I'm waiting on good samaritans like you to sell me on them.


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## Whammy

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> Now in the recent Instagram posts from Keith Merrow, he said that he is trying the Fishman Modern 7, but also said that he's *no longer with SD*!!!!!!!! So, there might be something SD related after all.



inb4 Jeff Loomis makes the switch.

Joking aside, Keith Merrow wasn't just an endorsed artist with Duncan. He was working for them on many different fronts. Product design, recruiting & relations with artists, product demos etc.
It's one thing switching or ending an endorsement with a company. It's quite another thing quitting your job. (Of course I'm assuming that he meant he left Duncan completely, when he stated he is no longer working with them, not just dropped his endorsement)
I'm sure there are many reasons behind his leaving, but I doubt "tone chasing" was on the top of his list.


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## SqWark

Whammy said:


> *inb4 Jeff Loomis makes the switch.*
> 
> Joking aside, Keith Merrow wasn't just an endorsed artist with Duncan. He was working for them on many different fronts. Product design, recruiting & relations with artists, product demos etc.
> It's one thing switching or ending an endorsement with a company. It's quite another thing quitting your job. (Of course I'm assuming that he meant he left Duncan completely, when he stated he is no longer working with them, not just dropped his endorsement)
> I'm sure there are many reasons behind his leaving, but I doubt "tone chasing" was on the top of his list.




HAHAHA!!! 

Was my first thought too when I saw Keith Merrow's instagram post. 

Even asked Keith to tell Jeff not to go quite so high output with his next set of signature (Fishman) pickups. 
Obviously got no response 

Whichever company KM lands with is gonna get one of the best product demonstrator/promoters in the biz which I feel Fishman sorely needs if they're gonna make a dent in the active pickup market. They still have that "Bunch of middle aged guys sitting around playing country music on their telecasters" vibe in much of their promotional stuff (website, youtube...).
Regardless should be interesting to see how this all plays out.


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## Tisca

Yodel said:


> They have good response to picking and rolling back the volume (can't comment on the tone pot since I don't have one on my Fishmanned Caparison). My Fryette goes from break-uppy cleans to full-on gain in the "active" voice, the dual voicing gives extra room for that of course.
> 
> Then again most people on the internet bitching about "sterile EMGs lacking dynamics" wouldn't know dynamics if they bit them in the ass...



With dynamics I mean the harder you pick the louder it gets and vice versa. Actives I've tried do this to some extent but there seems to be a lower threshold where lighter picking does not make it quieter/softer. Is it the same with Fishmans?


----------



## wedge_destroyer

SqWark said:


> I just don't know if you can make that statement. I think most of the famous and professional guitarists are on the same tone seeking quest that the rest of us are on. I can't see them making that much off of their signature pickups and guitars and definitely not enough to compromise the quality of their tone. I'm thinking of guys like Jeff Loomis and Devin Townsend. Successful,working musicians no doubt about it, but probably not close to retiring off of what they earn from their signature products.
> 
> I dunno. What do you think?



Well now many of the ones I've dealt with were on the same quest, but the number of times I've miced a head and cab conveniently placed off offstage whilst another sits "on and in use" on stage so that is also telling. As they want to protect an income or advertising source so the cash aspect HAS to come in to play


----------



## SqWark

wedge_destroyer said:


> Well now many of the ones I've dealt with were on the same quest, but the number of times I've miced a head and cab conveniently placed off offstage whilst another sits "on and in use" on stage so that is also telling. As they want to protect an income or advertising source so the cash aspect HAS to come in to play



I agree that it is often a factor. I just dont like to talk in absolutes as they tend to be an inaccurate representation of what I'm trying to convey.


----------



## Drew

Whammy said:


> inb4 Jeff Loomis makes the switch.
> 
> Joking aside, Keith Merrow wasn't just an endorsed artist with Duncan. He was working for them on many different fronts. Product design, recruiting & relations with artists, product demos etc.
> It's one thing switching or ending an endorsement with a company. It's quite another thing quitting your job. (Of course I'm assuming that he meant he left Duncan completely, when he stated he is no longer working with them, not just dropped his endorsement)
> I'm sure there are many reasons behind his leaving, but I doubt "tone chasing" was on the top of his list.



Just going on record saying that I have NO inside information or special insight into it, but it's worth noting that Frank Falbo was with Duncan for years as well before he left to start his own guitar company and either work for or consult with Fishman on the Fluence line, so while it's possible something's wrong at Duncan, an equally plausible explanation would be that these guys are switching based on the strength of a personal relationship with one of the designers. 

No clue for sure, but it certainly makes sense, and I don't think I've heard anything about personnel or AR issues at Duncan. Certainly, I like a lot of their pickups, so it's not product quality, at least in my eyes...


----------



## narad

Margins...


----------



## frank falbo

Tisca said:


> With dynamics I mean the harder you pick the louder it gets and vice versa. Actives I've tried do this to some extent but there seems to be a lower threshold where lighter picking does not make it quieter/softer. Is it the same with Fishmans?


You are correct. I'm just going to speak freely here, I'm not trying to say something negative because many of these things are reasons people _like_ other actives. Anyway here's the breakdown:

Standard EMG's like the 81/85 have an older preamp design that hard limits like a brickwall. The sound clips at a low level. So you can't hit the strings that hard before the signal is clipping. Not distorting, just clipping/compressing like a limiter. This affects the transient height, the frequency content of the transient, and a lot of the "RMS" of the sound. That's why the 18v mod restored some of the dynamics. 

EMG-X changed a couple resistors to take out 6dB from the preamp. Otherwise for like models, they're the same preamp topology. Just reduced 6dB, which _does _manufacture 6dB of headroom just not on the upper end. They also changed the output resistor to 2k so the signal is even lower impedance. That has other implications but not important here. 

Other new EMG's have some new preamps, many of which are coming from the X series as a starting point, some with new preamp designs I assume, I haven't torn into the RetroActives or Hetfields, I just get bits and pieces from friends of mine. 

Blackouts have higher headroom because they did the preamp differently. Whether or not you perceived them as too loud, or more bassy, muddy, etc. the preamp IS different, and there was less of that clipping. I don't know the topology of the Retributions and haven't played them other than a prototype. 

Fluence doesn't have a preamp design that clips like that. There is some "sag" in the Devin Townsend Voice 1, bridge pickup, because he wanted that feel there, but then it disappears in Voice 2. Otherwise the dynamics are pretty much as open as any passive pickup into your buffer, or your amp.

Think about it like this: 9/10 times, the first thing your guitar hits is a 9v powered circuit. Whether it's a drive, or a buffer, 9 volts is not the problem. You can take a wild swing at a high output passive pickup and it's peaking at 7, maybe 8 volts...and for a nanosecond at that. So 9v circuitry can do whatever we need it to do. It's just the amperage (current draw) that is manipulated.


----------



## frank falbo

Whammy said:


> inb4 Jeff Loomis makes the switch.
> 
> Joking aside, Keith Merrow wasn't just an endorsed artist with Duncan. He was working for them on many different fronts. Product design, recruiting & relations with artists, product demos etc.
> It's one thing switching or ending an endorsement with a company. It's quite another thing quitting your job. (Of course I'm assuming that he meant he left Duncan completely, when he stated he is no longer working with them, not just dropped his endorsement)
> I'm sure there are many reasons behind his leaving, but I doubt "tone chasing" was on the top of his list.


I would never speak for Keith. But assuming he doesn't come here to address his name being brought up, I can tell you that yes, he has left Duncan, he doesn't work there anymore, but it has nothing to do with Fishman. And you are correct. Keith the _employee_ has parted ways, not Keith the artist. Or at least not that I'm aware of. He posted that photo, that he's trying Fluence, and that's all it is, on face value. According to him, he hadn't really ever tried them before. Nothing to read into there, the two occurrences are not related. I don't think I'm saying anything he wouldn't approve.


----------



## frank falbo

wedge_destroyer said:


> ...number of times I've miced a head and cab conveniently placed off offstage whilst another sits "on and in use" on stage so that is also telling. As they want to protect an income or advertising source so the cash aspect HAS to come in to play


I'm using your quote as a springboard but this isn't a reply to you specifically, just the greater narrative in this thread. Guys I can't say it any other way (at least not without violating agreements or basic competitive decency) that finances are not, and have not been any part of why an artist has started using Fluence instead of whatever they'd been using. To make reference to the mic'd amps off stage, while endorsed amps are on display, I can tell you there are some artists recording with Fluence...discreetly. In other words, if money IS a factor one way or the other...We're not the amp on display in that analogy, we're the one mic'd backstage. 

I know it sounds cliche, but people said you couldn't do what we did. You couldn't make this kind of dent in the marketplace in this short a time, with something new like this. Fishman is a very successful organization with a tremendous R&D department. If you're looking for a money trail, _that's_ where to look.


----------



## narad

It'd be awesome if one of the modes was like an EMG 81/85 style clipping.


----------



## frank falbo

narad said:


> It'd be awesome if one of the modes was like an EMG 81/85 style clipping.


Right so...there's a small amount of that sag in the Devin Townsend Voice 1 neck and bridge. But if you're considering Fluence the first thing I'd want to know is whether you've tried the Modern set. If not, then try to play them somewhere and see if you still want the clipping sound of the EMG's. If you do, well the best way I can describe whether you'd like Devin's Voice 1 is that he said "I want a _little_ of that". So I can't predict whether you'll like them, just that there's a little bit of that in there.


----------



## narad

Yea, Devin's set seems to sound the most convincing. But it seems like whenever an active pickup tries to do 2 things, it's an active-y thing and a passive-y thing, when really there is so much of a difference in feel between an 81/85 and a het-set/blackout that it'd be cool to have them both there, and being both inherently active, you'd think it'd be a much more faithful reproduction than this active-doing-passive thing. But I plan to check out Devin's first whenever I get the chance.


----------



## frank falbo

Much of the difference is also in the magnetic circuit. You can't make a blade behave like poles, and vice versa. However, the Devins have one row of poles, (the ones visible) and the other coil is a blade. So there's also a hybrid going on there as well. Then it coil splits to the pole piece coil.

So going back to the "why are people switching" question, in Devin's case it's truly the Jeckyl/Hyde setup that would have otherwise been two separate guitars. The whole "versatility" thing can be cliche, too. But in the case of Fluence, only the magnetic field is common between the two voices. Nothing else about the sound has to be related to the other voice. 

I mean, in Tosin's case, he puts down his HB fan fret guitar, and picks up the Talman with Telecaster pickups and says, "Can you make this 8-string sound like this Tele neck pickup?" and I get to say "Yeah..."


----------



## Jonathan20022

Fluences are great, they were also great last year when almost no one gave a .... as well. 

I've been seeing their name being thrown around on forums so much lately, then I looked at their growing artist roster. Explains it, don't just follow what artists say/do.

That being said, the Single Coil set and the Devin set are very nice sounding. But I will absolutely not be converting a guitar from passive to active just for these, if a guitar comes with them or an easy way to just install them sure.


----------



## theicon2125

I'm interested in giving them a try due in part to what Ben Eller said about them and he isn't switching to them in all of his guitars.

From what I've seen most of the people who are switching to Fishmans aren't people who generally jump around with stuff. 

Head has been using Dimarzios for over 20 years. Him having them in his LTD sig isn't new for him, he has been using them at least since this summer. When I saw them at Chicago Open Air I recognized the styling of the pickup and thought it was crazy that someone who has always used the same pickups switched to them. 

The guys in Killswitch have been using EMGs for a long time. Even when they've switched guitar brands they've stuck with EMGs pretty consistently.

Fluff tries out tons of different pickups so he knows what could choose any brand to work with. 

Tosin has worked with all the big companies. I don't personally see that as someone chasing money, I see that as chasing tone. 

When Keith posted the picture of the Fluences he said tone chasing. He's been using Duncans (and even helping them test prototypes) for quite a while so it's definitely interesting to see him trying out something new. 

I may end up throwing one in the used Alexi I just bought as the previous owner put an 81 in it. I'll definitely report my findings once the limited run Horizon I ordered gets here hopefully in may.


----------



## patdavidmusic

frank falbo said:


> Much of the difference is also in the magnetic circuit. You can't make a blade behave like poles, and vice versa. However, the Devins have one row of poles, (the ones visible) and the other coil is a blade. So there's also a hybrid going on there as well. Then it coil splits to the pole piece coil.
> 
> So going back to the "why are people switching" question, in Devin's case it's truly the Jeckyl/Hyde setup that would have otherwise been two separate guitars. The whole "versatility" thing can be cliche, too. But in the case of Fluence, only the magnetic field is common between the two voices. Nothing else about the sound has to be related to the other voice.
> 
> I mean, in Tosin's case, he puts down his HB fan fret guitar, and picks up the Talman with Telecaster pickups and says, "Can you make this 8-string sound like this Tele neck pickup?" and I get to say "Yeah..."



Frank what champion you are for coming here and answering people's questions and clearing up some things, thank you for taking the time

My initial problem with these pickups when I heard about them is that they sound too good to be true, the above especially! Would I be right in thinking if the Tosin's have neck tele coil tones the Devins would have more strat-ish neck tones?

I'm ordered my first set of Fishman's and I can't wait to finally hear them in the flesh


----------



## Petar Bogdanov

Do any Fluence models run the coils in series somehow, or it's all differential wiring with EQ?


----------



## Tisca

frank falbo said:


> ...



Frank, that's some high quality info. Thx!

I'd like to run something by you. I dabble in electronics and thought I want to install a buffer in a guitar. I just swapped in passives and it left a battery holder. I've already built buffers so I have that covered but was wondering about the location within the guitar. Active pups have preamps which make them run low impedance with low noise and strong signal. I was thinking simplest would be to put the buffer after the pots. It might work between the pups and pots if you change to lower impedance pots, not sure.

This is just a crazy idea I'd like to try out. Would there be any real benefit of doing this? It's better placement than first on your board.


----------



## GuitarBizarre

Tisca said:


> Frank, that's some high quality info. Thx!
> 
> I'd like to run something by you. I dabble in electronics and thought I want to install a buffer in a guitar. I just swapped in passives and it left a battery holder. I've already built buffers so I have that covered but was wondering about the location within the guitar. Active pups have preamps which make them run low impedance with low noise and strong signal. I was thinking simplest would be to put the buffer after the pots. It might work between the pups and pots if you change to lower impedance pots, not sure.
> 
> This is just a crazy idea I'd like to try out. Would there be any real benefit of doing this? It's better placement than first on your board.




Check out Alembic's website - they've been doing it for decades

http://www.alembic.com/info/manual_tribute.html


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

frank falbo said:


> I'm using your quote as a springboard but this isn't a reply to you specifically, just the greater narrative in this thread. Guys I can't say it any other way (at least not without violating agreements or basic competitive decency) that finances are not, and have not been any part of why an artist has started using Fluence instead of whatever they'd been using. To make reference to the mic'd amps off stage, while endorsed amps are on display, I can tell you there are some artists recording with Fluence...discreetly. In other words, if money IS a factor one way or the other...We're not the amp on display in that analogy, we're the one mic'd backstage.
> 
> I know it sounds cliche, but people said you couldn't do what we did. You couldn't make this kind of dent in the marketplace in this short a time, with something new like this. Fishman is a very successful organization with a tremendous R&D department. If you're looking for a money trail, _that's_ where to look.



Great to hear. 

One burning question, you guys gonna show some love for the bass? How about a line of P/J pickup voicings in either P/J/soapbar formats, that'd be AWESOME!!!!


----------



## juka

After reading all these great insights Frank provided I'm still wondering, when somebody likes Modern Voice 1, but wants to have the Voice 3-/"Singlecoil"-option, too, which of the new sets should he choose?


----------



## frank falbo

patdavidmusic said:


> Would I be right in thinking if the Tosin's have neck tele coil tones the Devins would have more strat-ish neck tones?


No they're both quite different pickups. The Devins are targeting a more Tele-like sound when split, because they split to the outside coils, and the voicing is a little more robust. But the magnetic structure in both pickups consist of one blade, one screw pole, with base magnet underneath. 

The Tosin bridge is blades, the Tosin neck is an Alnico bar magnet IN the bridge side coil, and individual Alnico poles in the neck-side coil. So when he splits to THAT coil, it's targeting that Tele neck pickup tone he liked in the Talman. However, when he splits to BOTH inside coils, it's targeting his ideal in-between tones with tons of stratty quack. 



Petar Bogdanov said:


> Do any Fluence models run the coils in series somehow, or it's all differential wiring with EQ?


If you're referring to how EMG's and Blackouts typically are running the coils in parallel, and loading them heavily, etc...then summing them, Fluence is not anything like that and the preamps bear no resemblance. I can't give too much information, but more often its a series link but it doesn't even mean any of the same things with Fluence cores, since they have a clean response out to well beyond 40kHz. The reason series vs parallel (or buffered summing) matters on wire wound coils are because of all the _negative_ side effects of each combination method, none of which we deal with. 



Tisca said:


> ...simplest would be to put the buffer after the pots. It might work between the pups and pots if you change to lower impedance pots, not sure....This is just a crazy idea I'd like to try out.


Nothing crazy about it, it's been done for 30-40 years. Here's a good one to try: http://www.creationaudiolabs.com/redeemer
Often they're wired after the volume control because it's easy, and it's like hitting a pedal. If possible I like wiring them before the pots, (yes, change to 25k) because then when you turn your guitar's volume down, you're silencing even the preamp noise from the buffer. They're very low noise, but I still like knowing I can silence it.


----------



## frank falbo

juka said:


> After reading all these great insights Frank provided I'm still wondering, when somebody likes Modern Voice 1, but wants to have the Voice 3-/"Singlecoil"-option, too, which of the new sets should he choose?



Probably Killswitch. Their Voice 1 is very close to the stock Moderns. Tosin's V1 is not as close to the stock Moderns. But his single coil tones are super crisp and cutting. You can't lose with either, really.


----------



## juka

frank falbo said:


> Probably Killswitch. Their Voice 1 is very close to the stock Moderns. Tosin's V1 is not as close to the stock Moderns. But his single coil tones are super crisp and cutting. You can't lose with either, really.



 Yeah, make me buy both...
...and while I'm at it why not buy the Adler set, too, just for the fun of it.

Don't get me wrong I really would love to buy all the new sets and do a direct shootout with the Modern und Townsend set I already own, but there are certain budget constraints as I'm not a rockstar


----------



## frank falbo

I don't mean to make it sound like you need both, I'm trying to take the pressure off that you wouldn't be disappointed with either. I'd say if you already have the Devin set, and are looking for the next set, then get the Tosin pickups and experiment with the different coil split tones as well. If not the exact way that Tosin has it wired, at least duplicate those wiring selections with push pulls and/or switches.

Edit: Maybe this helps? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=az4fCS09RaQ&feature=youtu.be


----------



## BearOnGuitar

I have had my Fluence Modern set installed since later summer 2015 and they're simply amazing. The only thing I feel that could be further improved are the dynamics, they're not feeling like passives yet completely. Other than that they completely deliver on their promise to the point where I'm not interested in using anything else anymore, including passives. You'll see a lot more artist switching over to Fishman in time, as the word about them is spreading.


----------



## Drew

frank falbo said:


> Standard EMG's like the 81/85 have an older preamp design that hard limits like a brickwall. The sound clips at a low level. So you can't hit the strings that hard before the signal is clipping. Not distorting, just clipping/compressing like a limiter. This affects the transient height, the frequency content of the transient, and a lot of the "RMS" of the sound. That's why the 18v mod restored some of the dynamics.



Interesting - I've always thought EMGs (at least the 707s I've spent extensive time with) sound and feel like heavily compressed singlecoils.


----------



## juka

frank falbo said:


> ...
> 
> Edit: Maybe this helps? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=az4fCS09RaQ&feature=youtu.be



Great video! Hearing about how he approached the design process of of his sig set, actually really helped me a lot.
Split positions sounded great both clean and under high gain, liked positions 1 and 5 a little less.
He seems to use hb:sc=30%:70%, whereas in my playing it's more like 90%:10%. Great pickups, great sounds, but not for me. So I will try the KSE set first


----------



## Tisca

Any other 6 stringers that come stock with Fishman Fluences than Will Adler's and those ridiculously expensive Devin models?


----------



## patdavidmusic

Tisca said:


> Any other 6 stringers that come stock with Fishman Fluences than Will Adler's and those ridiculously expensive Devin models?



Just off the top of my head some ltd's, strandbergs, fret king guitars, i think there's another brand it just escapes me at the moment sorry


----------



## Tisca

patdavidmusic said:


> Just off the top of my head some ltd's, strandbergs, fret king guitars, i think there's another brand it just escapes me at the moment sorry



So I googled for Ltd's with Fishmans and this came up: http://fluence.fishman.com/fishmanequipped/ which could be better.


----------



## patdavidmusic

Tisca said:


> So I googled for Ltd's with Fishmans and this came up: http://fluence.fishman.com/fishmanequipped/ which could be better.



That's so much better, cheers


----------



## Tisca

So I've been listening to Fishman Fluence sounds, anything I've come across and mostly on youtube. Metal sounds ok but no improvement over other active brands. All clean and crunchy sounds sound sterile and/or shrill. Could someone post their favorite Fishman demos to prove otherwise?


----------



## BearOnGuitar

Check this here out.


----------



## patdavidmusic

Tisca said:


> So I've been listening to Fishman Fluence sounds, anything I've come across and mostly on youtube. Metal sounds ok but no improvement over other active brands. All clean and crunchy sounds sound sterile and/or shrill. Could someone post their favorite Fishman demos to prove otherwise?



I really like this one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJ6bnL0DgPA


----------



## crankyrayhanky

One of the players on the original post puts out a lot of videos. He gave a tour of his guitars and there was one left with his signature model from 2 years ago- he talked about taking that one out too because he now loves Fishman. Kind of sucks when the endorser is pulling out his own stuff for hip upgrades. 
I'm sure they are cool pickups, but I'm also sure they'll be yanked by 2019.


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

frank falbo said:


> I don't mean to make it sound like you need both, I'm trying to take the pressure off that you wouldn't be disappointed with either. I'd say if you already have the Devin set, and are looking for the next set, then get the Tosin pickups and experiment with the different coil split tones as well. If not the exact way that Tosin has it wired, at least duplicate those wiring selections with push pulls and/or switches.
> 
> Edit: Maybe this helps?


----------



## Tisca

BearOnGuitar said:


> Check this here out.




Think I saw that one already. No better than any other actives IMO. Didn't they also use actives back in the Oncoming Storm days?




patdavidmusic said:


> I really like this one
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJ6bnL0DgPA



That did sound better. Still, the Devin set is not really meant for single coil tones and regular passive single coils sound so much better for that.


----------



## patdavidmusic

Tisca said:


> Think I saw that one already. No better than any other actives IMO. Didn't they also use actives back in the Oncoming Storm days?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That did sound better. Still, the Devin set is not really meant for single coil tones and regular passive single coils sound so much better for that.



Swings and round abouts really, it's all personal preference really
with that devin demo to me it's one of the best spilt sound i've heard,

As you said definitely not as good as a normal strat but for a split it's wicked, the devin set has poles and a dedicated voice change just for single coil tones

-edit- like the tosin set that has poles on the neck inside coil


----------



## BearOnGuitar

Tisca said:


> Think I saw that one already. No better than any other actives IMO. Didn't they also use actives back in the Oncoming Storm days?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That did sound better. Still, the Devin set is not really meant for single coil tones and regular passive single coils sound so much better for that.




YouTube videos on musical equipment are great to watch, but really you can't substitute them for some actual experience with a piece of equipment.

While the modern set sounds almost idential to the EMG 81 & 85 set in tone, it does offer much better note separation, broader frequency response, two voicings, coil split, being almost completely noiseless even under very high gain, much improved dynamics and a nice fluid feel when playing. Maybe it's because I'm a sound engineer, but these things totally matter to me. Just the aspect of having noiseless pickups under high gain by itself is already an amazing improvement imo.


----------



## Petar Bogdanov

Drew said:


> Interesting - I've always thought EMGs (at least the 707s I've spent extensive time with) sound and feel like heavily compressed singlecoils.



Kind of. They buffer each coil, and sum them together, which is closest to parallel, but with more top end. 

If you have any guitars with a JB and a Boss SD-1, you can get pretty close to the EMG vibe by running in parallel and into overdrive.


----------



## Tisca

BearOnGuitar said:


> YouTube videos on musical equipment are great to watch, but really you can't substitute them for some actual experience with a piece of equipment.



I disagree. Since it's hard to get your hands on gear I purchase based on youtube and it has worked out perfectly so far. I really want to like Fishmans but I need to much more convincing. Sure you get some extra feel trying IRL and how they respond to your touch but the sound needs to be there first. My gear and sound taste is pretty "mainstream" where we pretty much agree on tone, what's bad and what's good. I have to believe Fishman is paying artists handsomely to IMO compromise. I might change my mind once I get to try these products but I highly doubt it right now.


----------



## BearOnGuitar

Some more clips. The Tosin and KSE sets sound amazing!


----------



## Richter

Saw Plini in Paris friday night, he had Fluences on his Strandberg.


----------



## sezna

Richter said:


> Saw Plini in Paris friday night, he had Fluences on his Strandberg.



It might have just been a new strandberg. They started using Fishmans in most of their 2017 lineup as the stock pickup.


----------



## Richter

sezna said:


> It might have just been a new strandberg. They started using Fishmans in most of their 2017 lineup as the stock pickup.


No man, he had his signature model with moon inlay. I think they were the classics, they had pots on one side


----------



## sezna

Richter said:


> No man, he had his signature model with moon inlay. I think they were the classics, they had pots on one side



Huh, interesting.

Still has Suhr pickups listed on the website.

https://strandbergguitars.com/boden-plini-edition/


----------



## kingpinMS3

i've been a long die hard EMG user. I bought my first fishman set for my new ibanez. I hope they don't dissapoint.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Very interested in the Devy set, since it's supposed to combine the 81/60 sound with a lower-output PAF sound as well. 

Although I'm still happy with my 81/60 set for the br00tz, and have a Het Set on the way to try out.


----------



## BearOnGuitar

[Youtubevid]AkTJaEbo4hQ[/Youtubevid]

People are starting to put out some good comparisons. Man, these Devy pickups sound incredible! The Moderns sound quite scratchy and compressed in comparison.


----------



## Casper777

Richter said:


> No man, he had his signature model with moon inlay. I think they were the classics, they had pots on one side


 
Saw that too... it was his "old" signature... you know it because the old one has vol + tone. The new one has volume only.

So it's a replacement of Seymour Duncan pickups on that one... Was surprised too not to see him play the new model.

Bay the way, he had a GREAT sound, going direct in the Amplifire pedal preamp...


----------



## BouhZik

Ok I like the concept, I think it sounds good and all..... but it looks like its the new hyped stuff with the price tag that comes with it. 400 euros for the Devin set? I'll wait for the hype to fade a little bit because at that price I want those pickups to do the dishes and clean the house....


----------



## domsch1988

BouhZik said:


> Ok I like the concept, I think it sounds good and all..... but it looks like its the new hyped stuff with the price tag that comes with it. 400 euros for the Devin set? I'll wait for the hype to fade a little bit because at that price I want those pickups to do the dishes and clean the house....



Exactly  I looked at the fluences countless times, and they sound great. But, for me, they do not sound 200% as good as any choice of SD Pickups. If a used set can be had for a decent price, i will give them a try


----------



## dshea19

Casper777 said:


> Saw that too... it was his "old" signature... you know it because the old one has vol + tone. The new one has volume only.
> 
> So it's a replacement of Seymour Duncan pickups on that one... Was surprised too not to see him play the new model.
> 
> Bay the way, he had a GREAT sound, going direct in the Amplifire pedal preamp...



I noticed in a couple of instagram pics that he wasn't using the Suhrs that are supposed to be in his sig line. The new Boden6 Prog is basically his sig, but with a tone knob and regular fretboard dots. If he is moving to Fluence pickups, it is a new thing that has not made its way to his sig yet.


----------



## juka

BearOnGuitar said:


> [Youtubevid]AkTJaEbo4hQ[/Youtubevid]
> 
> People are starting to put out some good comparisons. Man, these Devy pickups sound incredible! The Moderns sound quite scratchy and compressed in comparison.



Yes, a really good comparison that exactly reflects my experience with both sets.
This may be extremely unusual for the mindset people usually have towards active pickups, but the way those 2 sets sound heavily depends on the guitar you put them in.
As the DT have less treble and more output they are ideal for a guitars with lots of treble, where the Moderns tend to sound overly harsh and "sterile" (although as a longtime EMG user I hate this expression) and are IMHO more fitting in a guitar that has a lot of mids.


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## RustInPeace

The fishman seem interesting. I absolutely love the 57/66 set I have in my E-II horizon III, but I wish they could be coil split. Which set is maybe closest to the 57/66 "hot paf" sound with the ability to also split?


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## juka

RustInPeace said:


> The fishman seem interesting. I absolutely love the 57/66 set I have in my E-II horizon III, but I wish they could be coil split. Which set is maybe closest to the 57/66 "hot paf" sound with the ability to also split?


In my experience so far: NONE. That's why I went back to 57/66 in one of my guitars.


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## gujukal

Tons of guitarists used EMG and fishmans are a good and simple upgrade and installation. I havent been super impressed with sound clips i've heard, a set of bkp's sounds as good or better imo.


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## Glades

gujukal said:


> Tons of guitarists used EMG and fishmans are a good and simple upgrade and installation. I havent been super impressed with sound clips i've heard, a set of bkp's sounds as good or better imo.



Idk man. Tosin's comparison was pretty night and day with the cleans. Passives sounded anemic as all get out.


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## gujukal

Glades said:


> Idk man. Tosin's comparison was pretty night and day with the cleans. Passives sounded anemic as all get out.



I agree that the fishman sounds better than the passives on the clean in that clip. However, the fishmans seems to be a bit higher output and louder than the passives in the clip which makes it seem to sound better. It's pretty obvious he made the tone with the Fishman in mind, I've heard soo much better clean tones from a BKP than in that clip.


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## kingpinMS3

I got my fishmans put in today. They live up to the hype. the ceramic voice 1 has everything i love about the EMG-81 with much better articulation. Voice 2 sounds great boosted, has a little less gain. it's a nice sound.

the neck pickup is just a neck pickup to me. I'll play with it more in the future. I love, love, love the modern ceramic. it's the perfect chug pickup.


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## Fraz666

Discoqueen said:


> Because fishmen=fisher-of-men?






I have a fishman on my acoustic (Eko Mia) and I like it


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