# Making a bass-less, 1-guitar Grindcore band sound heavy as balls.



## Loomer

So, I'm currently in the midst of getting a new project going with a vocalist and a stupidly fast drummer. We're aiming to keep it at this setup, since a lot of our mutual favourite Grind bands use this setup (Maruta, Pig Destroyer, Discordance Axis, Gridlink, Magrudergrind, the list goes on) and the three of us have great personal chemistry. 

However, we still of course want it to sound heavy as all fuck. I plan to go about this by stacking up as many cabs as humanly possible. So far it will be two Marshall JCM800 cabs (the older ones with more low-end thump) and the vocalist's Mesa Recto oversized 4x12. The Mesa escpecially just fucking wrecks shit, more suited for demolition work than actual music. 

That said, how do we go about getting this to work on stage? Any tips? Would a few bass cabs be a good idea?


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## Soubi7string

first off I'd run 2 heads into the 2 marshall cabs and then run one of the OTHER amp heads into the Mesa oversized with a delay pedal in the line to offset it by 50-80ms to give off that depth of 2 guitarists.
Thats just me though.


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## Loomer

Head-wise, I'm running a rack setup which will contain two poweramps at some point, so it would be fairly easy to toss in a delay thingy at some point in the chain. Even now, that should even be possible, since the current poweramp is a two-channel Rocktron.

EDIT: Just read the manual for the Preamp. I can actually do this in the preamp itself, and only have the slight delay on one of the outputs. Brilliant!


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## Moltar

Also a stereo chorus would help I think. Maybe a touch of reverb as well.


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## Wookieslayer

Maybe search for one of those Randall 2x12 - 1x15 cabs? Beast!


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## ronjhoser

Why not split the signal (lower pitch) with an octaver or harmonizer and run the low signal into a bass rig?


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## Waelstrum

^ Would get muddy with any power chords he plays. I'd suggest a similar thing, but without changing the octave. Also high-pass the guitar signal and scoop the bass.


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## Loomer

Wookieslayer said:


> Maybe search for one of those Randall 2x12 - 1x15 cabs? Beast!



Something like that exists!? Fuck!! I need one, no, SIXTEEN!!


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## Ironbird

16 1x15 cabs would be totally ludicrous! 

Please do it.


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## Loomer

I just found a dude that's selling an old Hughes and Kettner 4x15 cab. 

OMG SO MUCH WANT!!! FIREPOWAAAAAAAH!


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## petereanima

Be prepared for actually more lowmids instead of more bass with the 15s for guitar. Sounds still badass tough.


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## Loomer

Well, that suits me fine 

Here's hoping I can snag it.


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## Wookieslayer

Damn 4x15s LOL. holy shit you must post video / clips if you get that! 

But yah, Randall made 4x12 sized cabs with 2 12s and a 15 on the bottom; also there were the Warhead 2x15 cabs. And of course Vader has their 2x15s as well.


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## TRENCHLORD

If you're running two heads/amps, then slightly over-saturating one and setting the other one a bit tight and dry always kills IMO.


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## avenger

I got a 2x12 1x15 Randall, quite brutal sounding but not flubby or muddy. Just a good low end punch.


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## Vostre Roy

I'd really, really love to hear a good video/clip of an high gain amp through the Randall RS125... I'm tempted to build a 2x12 + 1x15 but I'd love to try one before... Where do you live in Ontario? lol

Back to OP: If you have money, have you considered the ISP Guitar Subwoofer?
Steve Lukather VECTOR SL Active Guitar Subwoofer

Never tried it, so I don't recommand it. It also cost a ball and an arm, but still, if you have no bass, it could be a good way to fill the sound


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## AngstRiddenDreams

Turn a fridge into a cabinet. I know someone that did it. I don't quite understand how, but it was brutal. Top part. 2x15. Bottom, 4x12


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## highlordmugfug

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> Turn a fridge into a cabinet. I know someone that did it. I don't quite understand how, but it was brutal. Top part. 2x15. Bottom, 4x12


Get us pics right now or you're sleeping on the couch.


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## Divinehippie

^seconded


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## DjentDjentlalala

cmon,just simulate the bass with a pitch shifter.the EHX POG tracks chords perfectly,just cut down the Octave Up and Dry signa and there ya have it.super defined.


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## Loomer

DjentDjentlalala said:


> cmon,just simulate the bass with a pitch shifter.the EHX POG tracks chords perfectly,just cut down the Octave Up and Dry signa and there ya have it.super defined.



Defined is not what i'm going for. It has to Sound like shit. Loud, unforgiving horrible shit!


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## iRaiseTheDead

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> Turn a fridge into a cabinet. I know someone that did it. I don't quite understand how, but it was brutal. Top part. 2x15. Bottom, 4x12



I saw this the other day xD


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## Demiurge

Loomer said:


> Defined is not what i'm going for. It has to Sound like shit. Loud, unforgiving horrible shit!



I'm sure that he meant "defined" in that you'd be getting note content instead of the atonal glitchsplosion that you'd get with a normal octaver (which I am a fan of, actually), and then you can dirty it up on your own. The Boss Super Octave has a poly setting, too, but I think it might just let you do power chords.

If you want some dirt and glitchiness, you could try splitting to an MXR Blue Box. It's an octave fuzz where you're blending between 2 octaves down and fuzz, so one end of the knob is almost-pure octave and other end is a nasty, gated fuzz, and there are some pretty nasty settings in between.


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## DjentDjentlalala

believe me,it will work.some friends of mine use this method in their crust/hardcore/techy band,dirty as fuck!


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## MFB

Demiurge said:


> I'm sure that he meant "defined" in that you'd be getting note content instead of the atonal glitchsplosion that you'd get with a normal octaver (which I am a fan of, actually), and then you can dirty it up on your own. The Boss Super Octave has a poly setting, too, but I think it might just let you do power chords.
> 
> If you want some dirt and glitchiness, you could try splitting to an MXR Blue Box. It's an octave fuzz where you're blending between 2 octaves down and fuzz, so one end of the knob is almost-pure octave and other end is a nasty, gated fuzz, and there are some pretty nasty settings in between.



This.

The MXR Blue Box is probably my #2 favorite fuzz tone, just because of the fact that it's a different kind of fuzz sound


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## ittoa666

You could always do like Scott Hull and run your guitar into a bass and guitar amp. I think he used Vader 2x12's on their sides for better response, too. It's very complicated.


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## Loomer

Genevieve72 said:


> I plan to go about this by stacking up as many cabs as humanly possible.



I think that's kinda what I'll be going for, yeah


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## Loomer

Okay.. I've added one... ONE 2x15 bass cab now, and it's gotten totally ridiculous. Like. Holy assballs this is amazing.


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## noUser01

Run a full stereo setup, that is always the first step to any 1-guitar setup sounding huge. Experiment with a few of these ideas, they all work to an extent:

1) Have one amp fully dry (Say you're using a distorted rhythm tone, run it as normal on the amp) then get yourself a delay pedal and send JUST the delayed signal (NOT THE DRY SIGNAL) to the other amp, set the delay to a 7 milisecond delay. Makes it sound HOOOOOGE. Play with the level of the wet/dry amps and maybe the delay time a bit to make sure you don't get a strong chorus effect. John Petrucci demonstrates almost the same thing in this video:



2) Use a very subtle chorus effect on at all (or most) times. It doesn't really BEEF UP your sound, but I find it sort of broadens the stereo spectrum in a way. It's more of an effect than anything, but it does work well when you do it right.

3) Use a sub-octave below your signal at all times. Don't make it TOO strong, you don't want them to hear two separate signals here, you want one big sound, but it can really add beef and balls without sounding weird or getting in the way. 

4) If you're running two amps (or even two cabs) make them DIFFERENT! No matter what kind of guitar tone you dial in there's still gonna be frequencies that you've taken over, and frequencies you haven't. Because you don't have a bass player and another guitar player you've got LOADS of other frequencies to use so use them! Two different cabs with different speakers, or better yet two different amps with the tones dialed in somewhat similar, yet different. WALL OF SOUND!!!! \m/

5) When playing through a PA system, you could even get away with just one cab. What you do is mic it up with 2 mics, pan one left and one right. Going with the principle used in number 4, you could mic them slightly differently to get a bigger sound.

I know I'm forgetting at LEAST 2 ideas I had... oh well. Hope that helps!


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## Loomer

Most of the stuff on that list, I'm actually already doing 

However, I am a bit wary about the delays. Since this band is playing at full speed ahead, I'll have to be careful not to overdo that. In terms of Cabinets, I'm already running a 2X15 bass cab on one channel, and plan to arrive at two bass cabs + two 4x12s..

If I can find another one of the bass cabs called "1552" by Marshall, I will snag that in a heartbeat! I simply adore the one I have now!


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## noUser01

Bass cab is a good idea!

The delays are set to just one repeat, so it creates the sound of playing with a second guitar player. Trust me it works at full speed if you set it right. I play lots of metal, everything from djent to thrash to death metal and if you set it right, it works and sounds HOOOOOOOOGE.


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## petereanima

I have experimented in the last 2 years, since we reduced to one guitar (me), did all the 8ms-delay, dual-amp+cab setup, quadruple micing....and ended up in just double-micing my 1amp+1cab monosetup. Everything above that was just not worth the extra stress&money&space (small tourbus is small).

While of course it DID make a difference with doulbe amp/cab + delayed signal - it was mostly on stage, but not even 1% more in the audience than with just double micing the monosetup. 2 different mics, keep an eye on the phase - perfect.


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## Loomer

The answer is always MOOOAAAR FIREPOWAAAAAAH


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## MF_Kitten

Loomer said:


> I just found a dude that's selling an old Hughes and Kettner 4x15 cab.
> 
> OMG SO MUCH WANT!!! FIREPOWAAAAAAAH!



HOLY CUNTSOUP THAT SOUNDS AMAZING

You should buy some used 2X12 subwoofers, or subwoofer enclosures, and fit them with guitar speakers. I'm gunna do that someday. Ported sub enclosures with internal labyrinths FTW!

edit: get a baritone, and tune it low enough that you don't really NEED a bass player.

But more importantly, get a bass amp. split the guitar signal and run it into the bass amp with just enough overdrive that the sound is even, and dynamically similar to the distorted signal. Compression can also help with this. Also, low pass it a little so it doesn't overpower the high end or something.


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## Loomer

MF_Kitten said:


> HOLY CUNTSOUP THAT SOUNDS AMAZING
> 
> You should buy some used 2X12 subwoofers, or subwoofer enclosures, and fit them with guitar speakers. I'm gunna do that someday. Ported sub enclosures with internal labyrinths FTW!
> 
> edit: get a baritone, and tune it low enough that you don't really NEED a bass player.
> 
> But more importantly, get a bass amp. split the guitar signal and run it into the bass amp with just enough overdrive that the sound is even, and dynamically similar to the distorted signal. Compression can also help with this. Also, low pass it a little so it doesn't overpower the high end or something.



The 4x15 cab thing never panned out. It was too far away, and I don't have a car. However I am MORE than pleased with my current 2x15 bass cab  
I may add a 4X10 cab or something along the way. 

Also, I think the tuning are more than low enough!  
The faster, powerviolence type stuff is in 6-string Drop C. We'll also be doing some Discordance Axis covers in this tuning. Probably "Pattern Blue" and "The Necropolitan". 7-string stuff is in A standard.

Also, I'm going to rewire my 1982 cab to make it 4 ohms instead of 16 ohm, to give me some more headroom and tightness in that sound. Sometime soon I will probably try and find some Marshall 1960 cabs for cheap as well. I've made a decision to adapt myself to use them. Not because they are my favorite cabs ever, but simply because they're so ubiquitous, so if I have to play on a rented/borrowed backline I'm "used" to these. The reasoning for that is simply because these cabs are everywhere, and I can be sure that any given venue can get them if I ever need to send out a tech rider or some shit.


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