# DI track through tube amp as second guitarist



## MaxSwagger (Apr 25, 2019)

To help fill out the mix my band is looking to run a DI guitar signal to stage left tube amp/cab to act as second guitarist while I play stage right tube amp/cab. What’s the best way to go about this? The amp receiving the DI signal from computer/interface is a Marshall JCM2000. Do we need a reamp box to get the signal to the appropriate dB? Any info would be greatly appreciated.


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## Cynicanal (Apr 25, 2019)

No one on earth wants to hear pre-recorded tracks when they go to a concert. "The best way to go about this" is to not do it. If you really need to fill out your rhythm guitar mix, get a Mimiq and run it into a stereo rig, but even just bringing a second amp that no one plays just to complete the stereo rig is a lot of effort for little gain.


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## MaxSwagger (Apr 25, 2019)

I feel you, I’m more in the boat of less is more but my band members think there will be too much of a drop off during lead parts so they wanted to give it a shot. I see where they’re coming from as there are quite a few sections where rhythm guitar is necessary to compliment the leads. My original plan was to put a cab on each side of the stage and call it good. Obviously having a second guitarist is the best way to go but out of the cards givin the options we have for one and a show right around the corner. Here’s a link if anyone wants to see what I mean by lead stuff, it’s not a big deal for the main solo so much but more during chorus


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## Cynicanal (Apr 25, 2019)

I'm at work and thus can't listen to that right now, but a better solution to this problem that I've seen done many times is just to have a bassist with a bigger presence in your overall sound. Let him be your "second guitarist" during a solo.


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## DudeManBrother (Apr 25, 2019)

If I read your question correctly, you want to run a prerecorded DI into a second tube amp on stage: so you’ll need the DI source setup
1) could be a computer w/ DAW, interface, and a reamp box into the front of second amp
2) could use a TC electronic Wiretap pedal and just record each song directly into the pedal, and plug it into the second amp

Option 1 allows you to edit and time up the backing track to a click before hand, giving a reliable, repeatable start to each song exactly when you want it. Would work for in ear setups, and playing to a click track. Also allows for simply playing the prerecorded track (fully distorted etc) directly to FOH without the need for lugging a second amp on stage. 

Option 2 is only $70 and would add the much more human element of playing. You’d be able to do as many takes as necessary and keep the best one, but I don’t know if you can edit (maybe you can?). You’d have to remember to scroll to the next song and stomp on it in time.


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## GunpointMetal (Apr 25, 2019)

Cynicanal said:


> No one on earth wants to hear pre-recorded tracks when they go to a concert. "The best way to go about this" is to not do it. If you really need to fill out your rhythm guitar mix, get a Mimiq and run it into a stereo rig, but even just bringing a second amp that no one plays just to complete the stereo rig is a lot of effort for little gain.


This is a super common practice and is used to good effect all the time. Danza/Glass Cloud was doing this for a while, Psycroptic runs a full-on "left guitar" on the backtrack when they play. If you CAN do it by giving your bassist a boost pedal to kick on when you go to solos, thats cool, if not, there's NOTHING WRONG with running a second guitar on a track or DI'd into another amp.


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## Cynicanal (Apr 25, 2019)

It's become common in recent years (mostly among limp-wristed "prog"/"tech" garbage), but it's still something that no one actually wants. The fact that an uber-lame band like Psycroptic does it is an excellent argument against it. It was also super-lame when Cryptopsy did it, it's lame that The Faceless plays pre-recorded woodwind and brass instruments, and the local bands that use programmed drums live because they don't have a real drummer are also all lame. If I wanted to hear recorded performances, I could do that at home just fine.

I can name loads more bands that are two-guitar bands in the studio but did the one-guitar thing live "honestly" at one point or another, anyways. Angelcorpse, Immolation, Impiety, Watain, Absu, Inquisition, or pretty much any other band that has solos, toured with only one guitarist, and isn't lame "hey look at how much jazz theory we studied!" nonsense.


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## MaxSwagger (Apr 25, 2019)

Appreciate the help. I’m gonna run these options by the guys tonight and try some out. We have everything but the TC Electronic pedal (which sounds like it could be a pain) in house to atleast try. To those that have tried/heard these options, which works best: DI through amp on stage? Or distorted prerecorded tone straight to the PA? My thought was DI through amp to keep stage sound consistent but I could be wrong and would love to be considering the hassle of another amp hahaha


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## GunpointMetal (Apr 25, 2019)

Cynicanal said:


> It's become common in recent years (mostly among limp-wristed "prog"/"tech" garbage), but it's still something that no one actually wants. The fact that an uber-lame band like Psycroptic does it is an excellent argument against it. It was also super-lame when Cryptopsy did it, it's lame that The Faceless plays pre-recorded woodwind and brass instruments, and the local bands that use programmed drums live because they don't have a real drummer are also all lame. If I wanted to hear recorded performances, I could do that at home just fine.
> 
> I can name loads more bands that are two-guitar bands in the studio but did the one-guitar thing live "honestly" at one point or another, anyways. Angelcorpse, Immolation, Impiety, Watain, Absu, Inquisition, or pretty much any other band that has solos, toured with only one guitarist, and isn't lame "hey look at how much jazz theory we studied!" nonsense.



The only people who even notice or give a shit are other musicians. If you're playing shows to mostly other musicians, you've got bigger problems than someone noticing that you have a second guitar on a track. The artists selling the most tickets to the biggest shows don't even hardly have a live band anymore. If you're trying to build a band is gonna get out of the 45 person clubs and basements, stop worrying about what a bunch of guitar nerds on a niche forum think and worry about putting on a tight, fun live show. Avoiding the available technology to maintain some TRVE CVLT status is a good way to end up dusty and forgotten.



MaxSwagger said:


> Appreciate the help. I’m gonna run these options by the guys tonight and try some out. We have everything but the TC Electronic pedal (which sounds like it could be a pain) in house to atleast try. To those that have tried/heard these options, which works best: DI through amp on stage? Or distorted prerecorded tone straight to the PA? My thought was DI through amp to keep stage sound consistent but I could be wrong and would love to be considering the hassle of another amp hahaha


If I were in your position, I would probably mic up my amp and record single-take versions of each song and use those direct to FOH instead of worrying about lugging another amp/cab/reamp box and running the few extra cables. I wouldn't use edited takes or anything, just to keep some of the live feel involved. If you're really uncomfortable with idea, let them know. If you're really uncomfortable with the idea because you're worried some forum nerds are gonna call you out, but you think it sounds good/better in practice, don't worry about it.
Edit: I saw your band with Pangaea. Sick stuff!


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## Cynicanal (Apr 25, 2019)

GunpointMetal said:


> The only people who even notice or give a shit are other musicians. If you're playing shows to mostly other musicians, you've got bigger problems than someone noticing that you have a second guitar on a track. The artists selling the most tickets to the biggest shows don't even hardly have a live band anymore. If you're trying to build a band is gonna get out of the 45 person clubs and basements, stop worrying about what a bunch of guitar nerds on a niche forum think and worry about putting on a tight, fun live show. Avoiding the available technology to maintain some TRVE CVLT status is a good way to end up dusty and forgotten.


No one posting on this forum is going to actually make money on music (unless they're a member of Periphery), so "the artists selling the most tickets" are completely irrelevant to anything. Also, a lot of non-musicians complained when Cryptopsy just played pre-recorded solos live on that one tour, so it's not just a guitar nerd thing. And I'm pretty sure that every single band I mentioned is beyond the "45 person club" circuit, given that most of them have had headlining or near-headlining slots at MDF...


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## GunpointMetal (Apr 25, 2019)

Who said anything about solos? You never put your leads on the backtrack! I've only heard of a few of the bands you listed, and most of them have been around 10+ years.


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## Cynicanal (Apr 25, 2019)

GunpointMetal said:


> I've only heard of a few of the bands you listed, and most of them have been around 10+ years.


Every single one has been around for over 20 years (Immolation and Impiety have been around for over 30), but that's beside the point, since all of them have done the "one guitarist live" thing in the last few.


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## GunpointMetal (Apr 25, 2019)

Cynicanal said:


> Every single one has been around for over 20 years (Immolation and Impiety have been around for over 30), but that's beside the point, since all of them have done the "one guitarist live" thing in the last few.


No the point is they established fan bases long before the current market of over saturation where being better isn't enough to push a band into bigger and better things. Everyone should make music how they see fit. If that means playing everything raw, good. If that means playing to a click with a backtracked orchestra and dubstep samples, good. There's no reason to constrain yourself to any particular way of doing things other than you want to. There's no "music police" running around busting people for having performance enhancers, lol.


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## MaxSwagger (Apr 25, 2019)

GunpointMetal said:


> The only people who even notice or give a shit are other musicians. If you're playing shows to mostly other musicians, you've got bigger problems than someone noticing that you have a second guitar on a track. The artists selling the most tickets to the biggest shows don't even hardly have a live band anymore. If you're trying to build a band is gonna get out of the 45 person clubs and basements, stop worrying about what a bunch of guitar nerds on a niche forum think and worry about putting on a tight, fun live show. Avoiding the available technology to maintain some TRVE CVLT status is a good way to end up dusty and forgotten.
> 
> 
> If I were in your position, I would probably mic up my amp and record single-take versions of each song and use those direct to FOH instead of worrying about lugging another amp/cab/reamp box and running the few extra cables. I wouldn't use edited takes or anything, just to keep some of the live feel involved. If you're really uncomfortable with idea, let them know. If you're really uncomfortable with the idea because you're worried some forum nerds are gonna call you out, but you think it sounds good/better in practice, don't worry about it.
> Edit: I saw your band with Pangaea. Sick stuff!



Thanks man! Yeah, that was my original plan. Record one take performance so it sounds as real as possible and run it to FOH or to an amp. We’re gonna try both tonight. Appreciate all the help.


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## GunpointMetal (Apr 25, 2019)

MaxSwagger said:


> Thanks man! Yeah, that was my original plan. Record one take performance so it sounds as real as possible and run it to FOH or to an amp. We’re gonna try both tonight. Appreciate all the help.


Good luck! Is The Curse of Hail getting back together?


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## MaxSwagger (Apr 25, 2019)

GunpointMetal said:


> Good luck! Is The Curse of Hail getting back together?



More or less, yeah haha same guys except for the dude who played rhythm guitar for us. Might look at adding him back when the time is right. Also changed direction a bit sound wise. Not as techy, more clean singing, etc. Our first show is next month with Pangaea actually


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## ZXIIIT (Apr 27, 2019)

There's nothing wrong with using gear at your disposal to achieve the live sound you're after.

I've played quite a few shows where no one got salty that my "band" was on a backing track and have also seen old school bands like Motorhead and newer bands like Love & Death use the concept you're asking about live.

I would suggest to run a track with the rhytmn guitar straight to the FOH and avoid carrying unnecessary gear, but need a bit more info to help out.

What setup are you guys using now? Are you already using backing tracks?


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## ThisBrokenMachine (Apr 27, 2019)

We use this trick: when the other guitarist is playing solo parts, I switch my Helix to stereo with a doubler effect in the P.A., this way his channel doesn't sound weak


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## buriedoutback (Apr 27, 2019)

ThisBrokenMachine said:


> We use this trick: when the other guitarist is playing solo parts, I switch my Helix to stereo with a doubler effect in the P.A., this way his channel doesn't sound weak



I used to do this as well with my hd500. I ran 2 amp models, one with delay. I would just disable 1 amp model for most of it, then enable it when my old guitar player would play a solo.
Currently we have bass going direct to FOH from an old iphone.


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## Hollowway (Apr 27, 2019)

We used to catch some flak for backing/triggered stuff. But it was always drums or keys and only on a couple of tunes. So it wouldn't be unusual to have that happening in a show, but it's certainly worth a try, and see if you guys like the feel of it. If not, the idea of the bassist filling it out is what I'd focus on. Sometimes having the lead over less stuff in your area of the mix actually sounds better live. Rush always sounds good, even when that rhythm guitar disappears. And old school rock bands, like VH, always sounded good live, too. So maybe after messing around with it, you guys will want to stop the pre-recorded stuff anyway. But, I like limp-wristed "prog"/"tech" garbage, and listen to lame bands, as well as both uber-lame and super-lame bands.


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## Cynicanal (Apr 28, 2019)

Hollowway said:


> Sometimes having the lead over less stuff in your area of the mix actually sounds better live.


I wasn't going to bring it up, but after listening to the song in the Youtube link, not having the lead at all over the chorus would instantly be a huge improvement to the song (vocal chorus melody + riff + solo is _waaaaay_ too much stuff going on at once), so having to simplify your arrangement here because you're down a member really is a blessing in disguise.


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## c7spheres (Apr 28, 2019)

I vote don't do it. I say unless you have to have backing tracks cause you're doing different parts, then don't just fill it out with more cabs or amps or something. You can do a slight delay (like 20ms) and EQ slightly different (like really slightly) on one side to make it appear as a bigger image. All my favorite band never did this, even the 1 guitar player bands. I just don't see it as being needed unless doing different parts that are essential to the song (like that 808 kick : ).


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## Flappydoodle (Apr 28, 2019)

Periphery uses entirely pre-recorded bass tracks

Devin Townsend uses absolutely tons of pre-recorded tracks of choirs, strings etc

Steel Panther uses recorded guitar tracks, and it sounds great. Usually they're doing some rhythm backing tracks while Satchel does leads, or something the backing track has a harmony lead track, but a bit quieter


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## Lindmann (Apr 28, 2019)

I would suggest playing to a metronome when doing stuff like that.
You will end up in a huge mess if you use pre-recorded guitar tracks but neglect making sure you're in the right tempo.

And yes...you will need a DI-box (if this question hasn't been answered before).


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## devastone (May 1, 2019)

How good is your drummer at playing to click tracks, he will have to for any song that uses backing tracks so it is at the right time and the right tempo. How are you going to trigger them? I think the norm for the "big bands" is that the click starts and gives the drummer a 4 (or ___) count at the beginning of the song and away you go, not much room for error, and the backing track will start at the right place whether the band is there or not. It takes a lot of practice to work with them, not something that can just be thrown together for a show "right around the corner". A drummer friend of mine used a DrumKat to trigger special effects on a major pop tour, but for something like rhythm backing tracks, I think you will have to commit to a full song track.


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## Alex79 (May 2, 2019)

Simply have the bass player step up and fill the sound. Worked for Black Sabbath.


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## xwmucradiox (May 8, 2019)

A lot of folks in this thread are comparing OPs band to absolutely massive acts that use backing tracks and play to a click to keep everything in time and that's completely impractical for the band in question. 

Unless OP is playing venues where everything is run through the PA and they preferably have their own FOH engineer who knows their music, all those comparisons are worthless. 

The best option for keeping everything real and thus less complex, is to loop some parts live and play your leads over them. This takes a bit of practice and a good rhythm section. An extra head and cab might fill out the sound more but you'll never pull off a backing track played into another amp live without making your performance miserable to get through because you have to keep rigidly to a click. That's a sacrifice huge bands make because their show requires it and they have over-produced music with many unperformable elements. 

Every band I have ever seen at the small/mid level that has tried to use backing tracks has sounded more amateur than if they had just cut the extra parts and ripped the songs as hard as possible otherwise. Its always better to keep everything in the moment so you can react to the crowd, play faster, feel pauses naturally, etc...


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## GunpointMetal (May 9, 2019)

TL;DR - with proper preparation there's no reason a 4-pc band with a second guitar on a line-out and the drummer on a click can't sound just as "live" as a 5pc band. Unless you need a band to be slightly sloppy for it to be enjoyable, I guess. 



xwmucradiox said:


> A lot of folks in this thread are comparing OPs band to absolutely massive acts that use backing tracks and play to a click to keep everything in time and that's completely impractical for the band in question.
> 
> Unless OP is playing venues where everything is run through the PA and they preferably have their own FOH engineer who knows their music, all those comparisons are worthless.


 If you're running everything on individual lines, its no different than having another guitarist or a keyboardist in any of the logistics involved.



xwmucradiox said:


> The best option for keeping everything real and thus less complex, is to loop some parts live and play your leads over them. This takes a bit of practice and a good rhythm section. An extra head and cab might fill out the sound more but you'll never pull off a backing track played into another amp live without making your performance miserable to get through because you have to keep rigidly to a click. That's a sacrifice huge bands make because their show requires it and they have over-produced music with many unperformable elements.
> 
> Every band I have ever seen at the small/mid level that has tried to use backing tracks has sounded more amateur than if they had just cut the extra parts and ripped the songs as hard as possible otherwise. Its always better to keep everything in the moment so you can react to the crowd, play faster, feel pauses naturally, etc...


 watching a band live-loop, unless they're building from the ground up, is 99% of the time a disaster without a click from both a performance AND audience perspective. I'm really sorry that you have to play with and see so many bands that either don't practice or don't know how to use their gear. If you spend a little bit of time watching local/regional/mid-level touring bands, you'd probably see that MOST of them are running either tracks, a click for the drummer for lights, a second guitar line, samples, ETC, the good ones just do it so it integrates into the show and you don't think about it.


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## xwmucradiox (May 10, 2019)

GunpointMetal said:


> If you spend a little bit of time watching local/regional/mid-level touring bands, you'd probably see that MOST of them are running either tracks, a click for the drummer for lights, a second guitar line, samples, ETC, the good ones just do it so it integrates into the show and you don't think about it.



Maybe in some genres but I completely disagree on 'MOST' bands using backing tracks and having a drummer play to a click. Between mixing bands and touring for the last couple decades I have almost never seen small bands play to a click, or use backing tracks without sounding worse because the PA support or gear couldn't pull it off. If you look exclusively at djent and music that is based on 100 layers and only a few band members then you might see more backing tracks but in regular metal, grind, hardcore, etc... backing tracks are very rare.


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## Gmork (May 16, 2019)

Despite being a "limp wristed" nancy boy id use a parallel crunchy OD on bass during the solos so the clean unaltered tones comes through AS WELL AS the gainy crunch tone!


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## ATRguitar91 (May 18, 2019)

I'd definitely lean sending a pre-recorded guitar track FOH if you're gonna that route. That is, if the band is already playing to a click and using backing tracks. If not I'd say leave the leads out or let the bass fill it.

FWIW, when I was the only guitarist I would just skip unnecessary leads and play the rhythm parts. If I did play a lead, our bass player had a huge sound so it didn't matter. And if you're gonna go the 4 piece route, your bass player should have a huge sound because they'll have a lot room to work with. 

We'd run samples, subs, and ambient stuff through the backing tracks. But for us we loved playing to a click. It kept everything super tight and I never felt like I was cheating by dragging in a technical section. Our drummer liked the click so much he'd play to it even if we couldn't get the backing track working.


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## GunpointMetal (May 26, 2019)

@MaxSwagger how’d the show go?


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## MaxSwagger (May 28, 2019)

GunpointMetal said:


> @MaxSwagger how’d the show go?



In short, great.

We ended up going with DI amp/cab on the other side and it worked flawlessly. The place was packed with fans from our previous project and no one could tell a difference and most prefer the new direction in music to boot. A couple songs were filmed from the sound booth and if I had any complaints it’s that I was too loud, louder than the whole band. Damn amp just cuts almost too well at times. I can try to get the vids from my bassist if anyone cares. Since this project isn’t as serious as the last one and we don’t plan on playing out too often this really is the best option for us. I’m happy it worked out, and thank you all for the feedback.


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## MetalHex (Jun 8, 2019)

MaxSwagger said:


> In short, great.
> 
> We ended up going with DI amp/cab on the other side and it worked flawlessly. The place was packed with fans from our previous project and no one could tell a difference and most prefer the new direction in music to boot. A couple songs were filmed from the sound booth and if I had any complaints it’s that I was too loud, louder than the whole band. Damn amp just cuts almost too well at times. I can try to get the vids from my bassist if anyone cares. Since this project isn’t as serious as the last one and we don’t plan on playing out too often this really is the best option for us. I’m happy it worked out, and thank you all for the feedback.


I would like to see it. Tag me if you get ir


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