# BKP Nailbomb muddy?



## SpiritCrusher86 (Jan 2, 2010)

Just put my nailbomb in my jackson rr24, and i have to say, i'm not digging the tone at all. I play a Mark III. There is this subtle muddyness in the low mids that i can't dial out. its just muddy no matter how i dial in my amp, and its pissing me off. my guitar is alder, so i don't think that is the problem. it is fine with low gain, but when i add enough gain suitable for my style, it gets muddy. any help? did i install it wrong? or is it just that i don't like the pickup voicing. i had an emg 81 before, and it didn't have this problem. this sucks, because i love the organic tone of the bkp, but i hate the mud. i emailed zimbloth about it and have yet to recieve a response, and tim says i should replace it with a PK, which he actually originally reccomended. what is wrong?


BTW, posted here because the pickup forum will take forever to get a reply.
*Forums are there for a reason 
-Mod*


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## MaxOfMetal (Jan 2, 2010)

Sounds like you just don't like the pickup. I know Zim is usually really fast with replies, so I'm sure he'll clear this up ASAP. 

Just curious, but why did you not go for the recommended Painkiller?


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## zimbloth (Jan 2, 2010)

I got your email, but I was busy playing a show with my band in Boston tonight. I just got home literally 10 minutes ago. I'll reply to your email in a bit, but I'll briefly post a few things here.

I don't think the Nailbomb is muddy at ALL. The issue is more likely your rig (or even something as innocent as the strings), or rather how the pickup meshes with your rig. However, the NB is definitely not as tight as many of the other high-output BKPs such as the Rebel Yell, Painkiller, Warpig, Cold Sweat, Miracle Man, Holydiver, etc. It's all relative though. When I used a Nailbomb (I don't anymore) I did not find it muddy, but it does have a lot of low mids and so do Mesa Mark series amps. It's probably just a bit of a mismatch. 

Do you use a boost or anything? 

I think the Painkiller would be too bright in an alder Jackson Rhoads. I would instead go with something that is tighter than the NB but still not overly bright for alder. The Warpig and Miracle Man come to mind. 

For the record he did not get these from me, but I'm happy to help in any way I can regardless


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## vgta (Jan 2, 2010)

If you have an EQ pedal , put it between your guitar and your amp , down low and/or low mids a bit , normally it will be ok .
You can try an overdrive pedal too with no gain , tone in the last half and level in mid , it can be ok too .


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## sethh (Jan 2, 2010)

with all due respect, i had a ceramic seven-string version of it last year and it was also muddy as hell in an alder guitar. tried different pickup heights - still muddy. tested various other guitars through the same rig and they didn't sound muddy at all. BKP are not universal pickups that work well in all guitars - i've tried about ten different of them and only really liked the painkillers and cold sweats. happy new year though


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## Sepultorture (Jan 2, 2010)

a warpig will sound good with mark series amps muh man, i owned a mesa DR and my ceramic warpig sounded amazing through it, very tight, no mud, a tad dark sounding but not a bad thing


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## guitar4tw (Jan 2, 2010)

From what I gather, the Painkiller is the most clear and snappy (in the low end) of the BKPs. The warpig is huge and growling, but a little bit bassy. I have a warpig (played through a mesa f30 at the moment, engl invader incoming soon), and I had to back down the bass on the amp almost entirely for the low end to be as clear as I wanted.

The most important thing is to match the pickup with your other gear. If your amp is quite loose and bassy, and your guitar is made of all mahogany, you might not want to get a warpig or a nailbomb...


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## SpiritCrusher86 (Jan 2, 2010)

zimbloth said:


> I got your email, but I was busy playing a show with my band in Boston tonight. I just got home literally 10 minutes ago. I'll reply to your email in a bit, but I'll briefly post a few things here.
> 
> I don't think the Nailbomb is muddy at ALL. The issue is more likely your rig (or even something as innocent as the strings), or rather how the pickup meshes with your rig. However, the NB is definitely not as tight as many of the other high-output BKPs such as the Rebel Yell, Painkiller, Warpig, Cold Sweat, Miracle Man, Holydiver, etc. It's all relative though. When I used a Nailbomb (I don't anymore) I did not find it muddy, but it does have a lot of low mids and so do Mesa Mark series amps. It's probably just a bit of a mismatch.
> 
> ...


I don't use a boost, but i will keep it a few days before i make a decision. The Warpig doesn't really sound like my type of pickup. I like less bassy, tighter, middier, thrashy type tones, and i don't like too much output. tight bass, crunchy mids, and smooth highs. Really, the Miracle Man? Someone told me that would be bad for me. So many different recs, Tim and the people at the BKP forum saying Painkiller, and you guys saying different stuff, I don't know what to go with. If it is too bright, couldn't I just turn down the highs on my amp? Thanks for the help, and to let you know I will be buying the new pickup from you, since i don't mind waiting now and would like a return policy. How would the rebel yell be with my rig?



guitar4tw said:


> From what I gather, the Painkiller is the most clear and snappy (in the low end) of the BKPs. The warpig is huge and growling, but a little bit bassy. I have a warpig (played through a mesa f30 at the moment, engl invader incoming soon), and I had to back down the bass on the amp almost entirely for the low end to be as clear as I wanted.
> 
> The most important thing is to match the pickup with your other gear. If your amp is quite loose and bassy, and your guitar is made of all mahogany, you might not want to get a warpig or a nailbomb...


guitar is alder



MaxOfMetal said:


> Sounds like you just don't like the pickup. I know Zim is usually really fast with replies, so I'm sure he'll clear this up ASAP.
> 
> Just curious, but why did you not go for the recommended Painkiller?


 Because zimbloth said it would be too bright in my guitar, and ToS on the HC forums said a NB would compliment my amp better, being warmer. He also has it in alder.


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## Sepultorture (Jan 2, 2010)

Nick and Tim have differing opinions for sure, but there are many satisfied customers on her thanks to Nick, i'd go with his recommendation cus it worked for others and for me

and for mesa's yes i would try a boost first


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## SpiritCrusher86 (Jan 2, 2010)

Sepultorture said:


> Nick and Tim have differing opinions for sure, but there are many satisfied customers on her thanks to Nick, i'd go with his recommendation cus it worked for others and for me
> 
> and for mesa's yes i would try a boost first


 My amp doesn't really need a boost. But, I can't decide between a Warpig or a Painkiller. I think the Warpig would be too br00talz for me, I play in standard, no lower than DGCFAD. And I could always turn down the treble with the PK.


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## zimbloth (Jan 2, 2010)

SpiritCrusher86 said:


> My amp doesn't really need a boost. But, I can't decide between a Warpig or a Painkiller. I think the Warpig would be too br00talz for me, I play in standard, no lower than DGCFAD. And I could always turn down the treble with the PK.



I would go with the Warpig or Miracle Man. I do have an exchange policy, so I'd never allow you to be stuck with a pickup you were not thrilled with.

The Warpig certainly is brutal but its musical enough that it can work for really any metal or hard rock style. I've installed Warpigs in guitars like PRS Custom 24s for customers who play Soundgarden/Tool type stuff. It's definitely not just a death metal pickup. 

That said, if you want something thats a bit more polished, not as brutal in the midrange, bright and tight but fluid, the Miracle Man would be a good option as well. I personally am not a fan of the MM though, because it's got a slightly scooped character to it and I'm all about mids (WP, PK, RY, HD, etc).

The Rebel Yell is definitely tighter than the Nailbomb. It has a heavy tone to it, with plenty of crunch and harmonics but its a lot more balanced than the NB. A bit more high-mids than low-mids. It has a smooth character to it that gives it a tremendous lead voicing, but delivers the goods for rhythms too. It's a grea tall-around pickup. Definitely one of my favorite BKPs, sounds terrific. The RY is just at home with classic rock, blues, or progressive rock as it is with hard rock, metal, or extreme metal styles.

I would still probably go with the MM or WP though. A lot of my customers who use Mesas get great results with those pickups (among others). Everytime I've installed Warpigs in an alder/maple type guitar like a Jackson it has sounded absolutely incredible - in all positions. I love the Rebel Yell too but I'd probably go with the ceramic Warpig.


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## guitar4tw (Jan 2, 2010)

SpiritCrusher86 said:


> My amp doesn't really need a boost. But, I can't decide between a Warpig or a Painkiller. I think the Warpig would be too br00talz for me, I play in standard, no lower than DGCFAD. And I could always turn down the treble with the PK.


If I were in your shoes I would either go for the painkiller or a ceramic warpig. But I think I would land on a PK.


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## kmanick (Jan 2, 2010)

hmm????? I had a nailbomb in my Carvin 7 (all mahogany with a maple top and maple
board though, not Alder) and thru all of my Mesa's (Rectoverb, mark III and mark IV) it sounded killer. I always run a boost with my amps though. I didn't find the Nailbomb muddy at all, it wasn't as tight as the MiracleMan I had in my 7620 but it's lead tone was way better than the MiracleMans.

I don't know how the Rebel yell would sound in Alder but whatever Nick had it in , it sounded f'n great. 
I need to talk to him about pickups for my incoming Rico 7.
are you more of a lead player or a rhythm player? I liked the nailbomb much better for lead than Rhythm the Miracle Man much better for rhythm than lead.
how about a holy diver? that should sound good thru a mark III?


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## SpiritCrusher86 (Jan 2, 2010)

zimbloth said:


> I would go with the Warpig or Miracle Man. I do have an exchange policy, so I'd never allow you to be stuck with a pickup you were not thrilled with.
> 
> The Warpig certainly is brutal but its musical enough that it can work for really any metal or hard rock style. I've installed Warpigs in guitars like PRS Custom 24s for customers who play Soundgarden/Tool type stuff. It's definitely not just a death metal pickup.
> 
> ...


Okay then, I will get a Warpig. I'll PM you

EDIT: before i do so though, i think i wanna spend a few more days with my NB and see if it grows on me


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## SpiritCrusher86 (Jan 2, 2010)

kmanick said:


> hmm????? I had a nailbomb in my Carvin 7 (all mahogany with a maple top and maple
> board though, not Alder) and thru all of my Mesa's (Rectoverb, mark III and mark IV) it sounded killer. I always run a boost with my amps though. I didn't find the Nailbomb muddy at all, it wasn't as tight as the MiracleMan I had in my 7620 but it's lead tone was way better than the MiracleMans.
> 
> I don't know how the Rebel yell would sound in Alder but whatever Nick had it in , it sounded f'n great.
> ...


 I actually play both pretty equally. Attached is the styles of music I play, showing both my more proggy shit and my thrashier stuff. Whatever would be best for that.


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## Euthanasia (Jan 2, 2010)

Use a boost. it will give you the gain you need without turning the amp gain too much, so it will give you the clean and tight sound you want.


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## etiam (Jan 2, 2010)

Maybe this has already been done--or perhaps the knowledge is common enough--but what about making a tone chart for Bare Knuckle's offerings? The site's descriptions aren't terribly detailed, and I don't see a lot of comprehensive comparisons across the board. Since people seem to be so regularly interested in them, would making a list of features--tightness, bass response, harmonics, output, etc.--be doable? 

All with the caveat that it's generally speaking, all things being equal, and so forth...


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## guitar4tw (Jan 2, 2010)

I agree that they should make a tone chart of some sort, it would be very helpful.


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## zimbloth (Jan 3, 2010)

guitar4tw said:


> I agree that they should make a tone chart of some sort, it would be very helpful.



I disagree. Tone charts are supremely arbitrary and often misleading. It's all relative to the guitar, amp, string gauges, tuning, playing style, speakers, pedals, everything. Not to mention, simply listing output and a basic 3 band EQ only only part of the equation.

The best way is to just describe the pickup in as much detail as possible, with the customer's guitar/rig/desired tone in mind. There's reliable shortcut. What you see on the pickup manufacturer's websites is way too vague. Hell, BKP's website doesn't even mention the neck models.

I'm slowly adding detailed info about the models on my website, and people can search through endless posts of mine as well as user reviews on the 'net to become more educated about it. But I think simply listing"okay pickup X has a 4-5-7 tone chart" isn't going to help anybody. What would a midrange rating of "5" even mean? It doesnt account for low mids, mid mids, high mids, the character of the midrange, the responsiveness of the pickup, the way it responds to different kinds of amps/woods, etc. Just not worth it IMO.


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## buffa d (Jan 3, 2010)

I played my brother's Alder bodied ESP Horizon with a nailbomb in the bridge, and the tone was simply crushing!
Absolutely no mud. 

But of course different people like different things. My RG7620 with cold sweats sounds insanely good, but I'm really not that happy with the painkiller in my RGA121.


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## SpiritCrusher86 (Jan 3, 2010)

i tried everything, raising pickup height, new settings, resoldering everything, nothing works. i'm just gonna buy a Painkiller since thats what tim said origianally. Either that or a MM. Hopefully I can sell my NB for at least what i payed (135).


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## All_¥our_Bass (Jan 3, 2010)

Boost a mesa with some sort of OD pedal isn't for getting more gain/power/volume out of an amp it's about cutting the unneeded low end out of your guitar signal, which is where a large chunk of mud comes from when using higher gain. It also adds a very small bit of compression, which is also often beneficial for distorted tones.

Please trying using some sort of tubescreamer clone as a boost before you get rid of that pup!!

Mesa benefit so much from boosting like this it isn't funny.

If you still don't dig it after that, then this pup may not be for you.


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## SpiritCrusher86 (Jan 4, 2010)

All_¥our_Bass;1800381 said:


> Boost a mesa with some sort of OD pedal isn't for getting more gain/power/volume out of an amp it's about cutting the unneeded low end out of your guitar signal, which is where a large chunk of mud comes from when using higher gain. It also adds a very small bit of compression, which is also often beneficial for distorted tones.
> 
> Please trying using some sort of tubescreamer clone as a boost before you get rid of that pup!!
> 
> ...


 It sounded great before without a boost, so i think i should get a pickup that sounds good ithout one too. I am arleady buying a PK from zimbloth.


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## guitar4tw (Jan 4, 2010)

Good luck with the NB sale, then. I hope you're happy with the Painkiller, which is the pickup I have bought to put in my Carvin that comes in February. Tim also recommended it to me.


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## SpiritCrusher86 (Jan 4, 2010)

guitar4tw said:


> Good luck with the NB sale, then. I hope you're happy with the Painkiller, which is the pickup I have bought to put in my Carvin that comes in February. Tim also recommended it to me.


 Thanks. you think I could get $135 shipped for it? i hope so, i saw a guy selling one for $150.


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## Nick (Jan 4, 2010)

zimbloth said:


> I don't think the Nailbomb is muddy at ALL. The issue is more likely your rig (or even something as innocent as the strings), or rather how the pickup meshes with your rig. However, the NB is definitely not as tight as many of the other high-output BKPs such as the Rebel Yell, Painkiller, Warpig, Cold Sweat, Miracle Man, Holydiver, etc. It's all relative though. When I used a Nailbomb (I don't anymore) I did not find it muddy, but it does have a lot of low mids and so do Mesa Mark series amps. It's probably just a bit of a mismatch.



i agree

i have a nailbomb in my cow6 and its not muddy. its deffinetly a bit darker than the painkiller in my caparison but i think its possibly just not the best fit with a mk series amp.

i've not tried mine through my friends mk III but i can see how it would give a darker overall sound than with my vht


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## SpiritCrusher86 (Jan 4, 2010)

woah, i adjusted the height, and it sounds amazing. i'm keeping it. sorry zimbloth, i know i promised, but i got a good sound finally. now i can buy some good recording equipment.


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## sol niger 333 (Jan 4, 2010)

I too find the nailbomb to be slightly too woolly for my tastes in the lows. I play an alder bodied Fender Jaguar Baritone with maple neck and rosewood fretboard. This combination is not as bright as many people make out. In fact I've played brighter mahogany guitars. Alder is fantastic in the mids and I ended up using a Holy Diver to fill out its bottom and low mids a bit. I chose a compressed pickup over the more open nailbomb to keep it punchy and focussed. You might have good results with the Holy Diver and in my opinion if your guitar is not too bright the Painkiller may be a fantastic choice also.. Here is a clip I did with a Splawn Nitro and my alder bodied Jaguar with Holy Diver.. The Nitro is a very Low mid voiced amp with the kt88s and I think it responded very well to the alder and the Holy Divers compression/punch and low mid voicing. 



SoundClick artist: New Way Home - page with MP3 music downloads



Another option is the rebel yell but it has this weird voicing in the highs in my opinion and the output isn't quite aggressive enough for me.. The RY almost sounds single coily in the top end at times regarding it's quirky voicing but thats because I put it in such a bright guitar possibly. Anyway if ya get the chance and your guitar is quite bright I'd give the Holy Diver a go, its a cool pickup, as is the Painkiller and the Cold Sweat on the brighter side of things.



SpiritCrusher86 said:


> woah, i adjusted the height, and it sounds amazing. i'm keeping it. sorry zimbloth, i know i promised, but i got a good sound finally. now i can buy some good recording equipment.



Ewps.. didn't see that. Glad you found the sweetspot


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## zimbloth (Jan 5, 2010)

SpiritCrusher86 said:


> woah, i adjusted the height, and it sounds amazing. i'm keeping it. sorry zimbloth, i know i promised, but i got a good sound finally. now i can buy some good recording equipment.



Hey, I'd rather you be happy with your Nailbomb then buy another pickup for me dude, so no need to apologize.


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## SpiritCrusher86 (Jan 5, 2010)

zimbloth said:


> Hey, I'd rather you be happy with your Nailbomb then buy another pickup for me dude, so no need to apologize.


 Thank you


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## zimbloth (Jan 5, 2010)

SpiritCrusher86 said:


> Thank you



You found out what I always try and tell people about BKPs, they're extremely sensitive to pickup height, more so than most pickups I've tried in the past.


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## guitar4tw (Jan 5, 2010)

Yeah, I thought my warpig was great, but when I found it's sweet spot in height I was totally blown away. I guess the lesson we have learned is that with new BKPs, always fiddle around with height until you find the sweet spot. As Zimbloth says, I've never seen a brand of pickups that is more sensitive to height than BKPs - but damnit is it worth it.


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