# I finally read "The Call of Cthulhu"



## Zepp88 (Aug 20, 2008)

Okay, I'm hooked. How I managed to dodge the works of H.P. Lovecraft for so long I'll never know, but his narrative style and gastly imagery is amazing. Now I think I'm going to dig deeper into the Cthulhu mythos because this is some seriously cool stuff.







All hail The Great Old One.


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## Naren (Aug 20, 2008)

Seeing as I've read every single thing Lovecraft has ever written and am probably the biggest Lovecraft fan on this site, I'll give a few recommendations:

At The Mountains Of Madness (his second longest story - technically a novella)
The Dreams In The Witch House
The Dunwich Horror
The Haunter Of The Dark
The Whisperer In Darkness
The Rats In The Walls
Pickman's Model
The Shadow Out Of Time
The Case Of Charles Dexter Ward
The Shadow Over Innsmouth
The Silver Key
The Thing On The Doorstep
The Colour Out Of Space

^All of the above are masterpieces and really really really interesting. But I posted a link to a list of all his works below.

List of works by H. P. Lovecraft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Zepp88 (Aug 20, 2008)

Are these all part of the Cthulhu mythos? (Sorry I dont' know how Lovecrafts works are broken up, but they all weren't Cthulhu stories were they?)

I have "The best of H.P. Lovecraft: Bloodcurdling Tales of Horror and the Macabre"

It has many of those tales in it so I'll get to reading to them!

Is there any sort of chronology to the tales? Or are they isolated?


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## Naren (Aug 20, 2008)

Zepp88 said:


> Are these all part of the Cthulhu mythos? (Sorry I dont' know how Lovecrafts works are broken up, but they all weren't Cthulhu stories were they?)
> 
> I have "The best of H.P. Lovecraft: Bloodcurdling Tales of Horror and the Macabre"
> 
> ...



"The Cthulhu Mythos" is not mythos specifically about Cthulhu. It's just named that because "The Call of Cthulhu" is the most famous and popular story in the series. It actually refers to stories talking about the Outer Gods and the Great Old Ones. They rarely deal specifically with Cthulhu. I think "The Call of Cthulhu" is the only story specifically about Cthulhu (by Lovecraft).

Other stories that I mentioned in the Cthulhu mythos would be: At The Mountains Of Madness, The Dunwich Horror, The Shadow Over Innsmouth, The Whisperer In Darkness, The Shadow Out Of Time, and The Haunter Of The Dark (since it deals with Nyarlathotep).

The stories all take place in the same universe and sometimes even refer to each other, featuring the same fictional locations, people, and literature (such as the Necronomicon), but most stories are completely seperated from others. However, if you put stories together you can find out a lot about the mysteries (like linking pieces of a puzzle). For example, The Shadow Out Of Time and At The Mountains Of Madness are both very very long, but they reveal a lot of information about the Great Old Ones and the Earth's ancient past.



Zepp88 said:


> I have "The best of H.P. Lovecraft: Bloodcurdling Tales of Horror and the Macabre"
> 
> It has many of those tales in it so I'll get to reading to them!
> 
> Is there any sort of chronology to the tales? Or are they isolated?



Ah, did you buy that on my recommendation? It really is a GREAT collection. It has the majority of my favorite Lovecraft stories, only missing a few of my favorites that were too long to include such as At The Mountains Of Madness and The Case of Charles Dexter Ward. If you read that whole book, I think you'll be satisfied.

I would recommend reading "Dreams In The Witch House" next. That seriously is an AMAZING story.


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## Zepp88 (Aug 20, 2008)

Yep, I took your recommendation, and thanks for the details on the Great Old Ones stuff 

I think I'll just read it cover to cover, but I just had to start with The Call of Cthulhu as it's so popular.


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## Naren (Aug 20, 2008)

Here. This should clear up some stuff.

Cthulhu Mythos - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



> The Cthulhu Mythos is a shared universe created in the 1920s by American horror writer H. P. Lovecraft. The term Lovecraft Mythos is preferred by some &#8212; most notably the Lovecraft scholar S.T. Joshi.[1]
> 
> The term was coined by Lovecraft's associate August Derleth, and named after Cthulhu, a powerful fictional entity in Lovecraft's stories. Not a series per se, stories, novels and other works in the Cthulhu Mythos feature elements, characters, settings, and themes found in works by Lovecraft writers. Together, these works form the mythos that authors writing in the Lovecraftian milieu have used -- and continue to use -- in their ongoing expansion of the fictional universe, sometimes in ways far removed from Lovecraft's original conception.[2]


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## All_¥our_Bass (Aug 20, 2008)

I'm glad you did.
H.P. Lovecraft is truely amazing.


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## Naren (Aug 20, 2008)

Another quote from there that strengthens the idea that Cthulhu is not that major of a player in the "Cthulhu mythos":



> Despite his notoriety, Cthulhu is not the most powerful of the deities, nor is he the theological center of the mythos.[14] Instead, this position is held by the demon-god Azathoth, an Outer God, ruling from his cosmically centered court. Nonetheless, Nyarlathotep, who fulfills Azathoth's random urges, has intervened more frequently and more directly in human affairs than any other Outer god. He has also displayed more blatant contempt for humanity, especially his own worshippers, than almost any other Lovecraftian deity.


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## Zepp88 (Aug 20, 2008)

Interesting, so why then does Cthulhu have so much noteriety?


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## Naren (Aug 20, 2008)

Zepp88 said:


> Interesting, so why then does Cthulhu have so much noteriety?



Because "The Call of Cthulhu" is his most famous story.

I personally really dislike the Cthulhu mythos stories written by authors other than Lovecraft. For example, Augest Derleth--the main writer in the mythos other than Lovecraft--completely changed everything. Lovecraft was an atheist and portrayed these creatures as neither evil nor good (as you can realize through reading a lot of Lovecraft). Derleth turned the entire mythos into a fight between good and evil (because he was a Catholic). He also took all the Ancient Ones and Elder Gods and classified them by the four classical Greek elements. The only positive thing I can say about him is that he was a huge Lovecraft proponent and got his novels published after his death.


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## Zepp88 (Aug 20, 2008)

It's lame to me that someone would write stories in someone elses universe, but change the essence of that universe, to hell with that bullshit.


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## Naren (Aug 20, 2008)

I agree, but the dude wasn't about to write these guys as all being neutral (neither evil nor good) when he was a strict Catholic. A lot of Lovecraft fans reject Derleth's writings in the Lovecraft universe. He made Cthulhu a water elemental, which would make no sense since he came from outer space and is TRAPPED at the bottom of the ocean, where even his mental waves can't escape.


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## Zepp88 (Aug 20, 2008)

I'll avoid his works, I like a certain amount of purism in the works I read...

On an odd note, are there any prominent artists that have done great renderings of the Great Old Ones? Like well respected representations? I've seen plenty of Cthulhu and some of Shub-Nigurath, I like having visuals 

There is an amazing sculpture of Cthulhu at one of the local "nerd shops" here that I must pick up, I'm starting a collection of McFarlane style sculptures, and I need to add that one.


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## Lankles (Aug 20, 2008)

{ atelier coulthart }

I have his depiction of Azathoth as my desktop background.


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## Naren (Aug 20, 2008)

Zepp88 said:


> I'll avoid his works, I like a certain amount of purism in the works I read...
> 
> On an odd note, are there any prominent artists that have done great renderings of the Great Old Ones? Like well respected representations? I've seen plenty of Cthulhu and some of Shub-Nigurath, I like having visuals
> 
> There is an amazing sculpture of Cthulhu at one of the local "nerd shops" here that I must pick up, I'm starting a collection of McFarlane style sculptures, and I need to add that one.



This is my favorite. 

Shub-Niggurath - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Dunwich Horror is one you need to read.  The Necronomicon features prominently in that one.


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## Zepp88 (Aug 20, 2008)

Lankles, that is awesome! I need to pick that up!


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## Zepp88 (Aug 20, 2008)

Also, I never realized how heavilly The Elder Scrolls draws from Lovecraft.


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## Naren (Aug 20, 2008)

Zepp88 said:


> Also, I never realized how heavilly The Elder Scrolls draws from Lovecraft.



Heavily? How so? I've played every single Elder Scrolls game, several times through and Morrowind is my favorite game of all time and Oblivion is my second favorite game of all time and I only see The Elder Scrolls as lightly borrowing from Lovecraft (and I've read everything Lovecraft's written several times).

I don't see where you get this "heavily drawing from Lovecraft."


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## Zepp88 (Aug 20, 2008)

Naren said:


> Heavily? How so? I've played every single Elder Scrolls game, several times through and Morrowind is my favorite game of all time and Oblivion is my second favorite game of all time and I only see The Elder Scrolls as lightly borrowing from Lovecraft (and I've read everything Lovecraft's written several times).
> 
> I don't see where you get this "heavily drawing from Lovecraft."



Poor choice of words maybe...


1.) Daedric archetecture
2.) Lord Dagon
3.) The concept of the Daedric gods.

I guess it's just the "evil" parts of the story.


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## Naren (Aug 20, 2008)

1. Yes.
2. No.
3. Partly yes and partly no.

I think they got Dagon from the same place Lovecraft did:

Dagon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Zepp88 (Aug 20, 2008)

Naren said:


> 1. Yes.
> 2. No.
> 3. Partly yes and partly no.
> 
> ...



Interesting, thanks.

Your knowledge of mythic gods and such is better than mine


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## Naren (Aug 20, 2008)

Zepp88 said:


> Interesting, thanks.
> 
> Your knowledge of mythic gods and such is better than mine



It's always been an interest of mine.


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## Zepp88 (Aug 20, 2008)

It's a vague interest of mine, but I find myself usually diverting to tv sci-fi stuff


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## Naren (Aug 20, 2008)

I like sci-fi, but I don't like TV.


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## Zepp88 (Aug 20, 2008)

Naren said:


> I like sci-fi, but I don't like TV.



That must be frustrating as hell.


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## Naren (Aug 20, 2008)

Zepp88 said:


> That must be frustrating as hell.



Not really. I can still watch sci-fi movies or read novels. 

I have a very low opinion of television. There are a few rare shows like X-Files that I really really like, but generally television = shit. I much prefer watching quality films.

I haven't really watched TV since I was 17. I realized one day that 99% of the stuff on TV was crap and that I was just wasting my time watching stuff that I wasn't really interested in, so I decided to not watch it anymore and I haven't since then, although I've watched some TV shows on DVD.


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## Zepp88 (Aug 20, 2008)

There's still some good stuff on TV, but you're right the majority of TV is absolute garbage, there are a few shows that I really like.

Lost, House, and Bones are some of my favorites on TV right now. 

 Our conversations always drift away from the topic in odd ways.


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## distressed_romeo (Aug 20, 2008)

Naren's recommended most of the best Lovecraft stuff, but if you want to read 'post-Lovecraft' stuff that doesn't just mangle the Chthulu Mythos, then try...

Anything by Thomas Ligotti.
'Threshold', and its sequels, 'Low Red Moon', 'Daughter of Hounds', and 'Alabaster' by Caitlin R. Kiernan.


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## eaeolian (Aug 20, 2008)

Naren said:


> I would recommend reading "Dreams In The Witch House" next. That seriously is an AMAZING story.



 Possibly my favorite HPL story, which is saying something.


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## HammerAndSickle (Aug 20, 2008)

A Colder War - a novelette by Charles Stross 

That's a great short story I've read. Not by Lovecraft, but seriously. Cold War+Cthulhu=awesome.


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## Naren (Aug 20, 2008)

eaeolian said:


> Possibly my favorite HPL story, which is saying something.



Probably my favorite as well. I have told people before that "Dreams In The Witch House" is my favorite Lovecraft story, and it probably is, but The Case of Charles Dexter Ward is fighting pretty hard for that number 1 spot.


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## technomancer (Aug 20, 2008)

The Case of Charles Dexter Ward is probably #1 for me followed by Dreams In The Witch House and The Rats in The Walls 

Once you're through the core Lovecraft cannon let me know and I can recommend some of the later stuff by other authors, as I've read 99% of it 

BTW if you want to see what happens when you cross Tom Clancy with a Shoggoth, check out Cody Goodfellow's Radiant Dawn / Ravenous Dusk


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## Lankles (Aug 21, 2008)

+1 the case of Charles Dexter Ward. Also Through The Gates Of The Silver Key and The Statement of Randolph Carter. 

There has been insufficient imagery in this thread. Thusly I post ...

Cthulhu





Shub-Niggurath




In The Spaces Between




Everyone who has a passing interest in either the above renditions or hellishly dark graphic novels should administer themselves a copy of 'The Haunter Of The Dark and other Grotesque Visions' by the aforementioned John Coulthart which was reprinted in 2006. The Great Old Ones series and the selected panels of the unfinished 'The Dunwich Horror' comic are awe-inspiring, as is the slavering portrayal of Cthulhu in the CoC comic. 

[/fanboy]


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## distressed_romeo (Aug 21, 2008)

Funny you mention that, as I got the Coulthart book fairly recently. It is indeed a beautiful piece of work.


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## Zepp88 (Aug 21, 2008)

I think I'm going to pick that up as well.


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## Zepp88 (Aug 22, 2008)

Just got done reading "The Dunwich Horror"  

I get the impression that Whateley's "Twin" wasn't Yog-Sothoth, but a manisfestation of it? Or something a bit different?

Next up, "The Dreams In The Witch House"


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## All_¥our_Bass (Aug 22, 2008)

Zepp88 said:


> Just got done reading "The Dunwich Horror"
> 
> I get the impression that Whateley's "Twin" wasn't Yog-Sothoth, but a manisfestation of it? Or something a bit different?
> 
> Next up, "The Dreams In The Witch House"


 
Both Whateley and his twin are "sons" of Yog-Sothoth. The twin cries out at the end "Help! Yog-Sothoth! Help FATHER!!"


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## Zepp88 (Aug 22, 2008)

All_¥our_Bass;1184071 said:


> Both Whateley and his twin are "sons" of Yog-Sothoth. The twin cries out at the end "Help! Yog-Sothoth! Help FATHER!!"



Ah yes, that makes sense. These stories are short but still complex as all hell, I like it


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## Naren (Aug 22, 2008)

Zepp88 said:


> Just got done reading "The Dunwich Horror"
> 
> I get the impression that Whateley's "Twin" wasn't Yog-Sothoth, but a manisfestation of it? Or something a bit different?
> 
> Next up, "The Dreams In The Witch House"



No. Yog Sothoth has been around for hundreds of millions of years. He's a demonlike creature from another dimension and he is probably the most powerful being in Lovecraft's universe, along with Azathoth. I believe it says somewhere that Yog Sothoth is the only being more powerful than Azathoth. He is classified as an "Outer God" and lives outside of our universe and is incapable of getting in. Whateley was trying to use rituals described in the Necronomicon to bring Yog Sothoth into our world.

So, no, Whateley's twin was not Yog-Sothoth (if he had been, he wouldn't have been killed so easily. Nor would he have caused such little damage). He was the son of Yog Sothoth (half-human?). That's what the last line of the story means when it says that he "resembled his father."



All_¥our_Bass;1184071 said:


> Both Wilbur and his twin are "sons" of Yog-Sothoth. The twin cries out at the end "Help! Yog-Sothoth! Help FATHER!!"



Exactly. But Wilbur took after his mother (human) and his twin took after his father (Yog-Sothoth).


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## Zepp88 (Aug 22, 2008)

Yes I've got that bit figured out now  and AYB already explained it.


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## Naren (Aug 22, 2008)

Zepp88 said:


> Yes I've got that bit figured out now  and AYB already explained it.



Not very clearly, though.


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## Zepp88 (Aug 22, 2008)

Naren said:


> Not very clearly, though.



Aye, you did add some valuable detail....and explained some things that I was wondering on...(such as why there was no physical manifestation of Yog-Sothoth, but there was one of Cthulhu, which I now understand, woot.)


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## forelander (Aug 22, 2008)

So is there any particular order to read these in? I have a Lovecraft collection as well, but reading them in order didn't make much sense. Mountains of Madness was first, and I found it kinda boring as I had no idea what they had found. Call of Cthulhu (middle of the book, which I skipped to) was certainly much better and seems like Mountains of Madness might be more interesting having read it.


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## Naren (Aug 22, 2008)

forelander said:


> So is there any particular order to read these in? I have a Lovecraft collection as well, but reading them in order didn't make much sense. Mountains of Madness was first, and I found it kinda boring as I had no idea what they had found. Call of Cthulhu (middle of the book, which I skipped to) was certainly much better and seems like Mountains of Madness might be more interesting having read it.



Uhm, they don't follow a particular order. However, if you read them in some orders, they won't make much sense. There are those you can read by themselves and some that are much better if you had read others before. At The Mountains Of Madness is one of my top 10 (top 5?) favorite Lovecraft stories, but I don't think I would enjoy it NEARLY as much if I hadn't read The Shadow Out Of Time, The Call Of Cthulhu, and other such associated stories beforehand. At The Mountains Of Madness was one of the last stories he wrote before he died and it really is a kind of accumulation of a lot of the things he was dealing with in previous stories.


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## forelander (Aug 22, 2008)

Naren said:


> Uhm, they don't follow a particular order. However, if you read them in some orders, they won't make much sense. There are those you can read by themselves and some that are much better if you had read others before. At The Mountains Of Madness is one of my top 10 (top 5?) favorite Lovecraft stories, but I don't think I would enjoy it NEARLY as much if I hadn't read The Shadow Out Of Time, The Call Of Cthulhu, and other such associated stories beforehand. At The Mountains Of Madness was one of the last stories he wrote before he died and it really is a kind of accumulation of a lot of the things he was dealing with in previous stories.



All that said, what would be a good order to read stuff in so it makes general sense, or so that later stories such as At the Mountain of Madness can be enjoyed to their full potential?


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## neoclassical (Aug 23, 2008)

Don't ignore the works of Derleth, he is one of the best mythos writers. 

Adam


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## Zepp88 (Aug 23, 2008)

After I finish this Lovecraft collection I'm gonna read 1984, but after that I think I might delve into the works of Robert Bloch.

Also, Cthulhu does indeed dream, and he does indeed drive you insane, last week I was at our local nerd-game-shop and spotted this awesome looking Cthulhu sculpture, and I thought about it all week and decided I HAD to have it.

It's one of these:







Apparently it's a HorrorClix game-piece, but I've never played the game. The detail is awesome, and it's pretty big, the wingspan is nuts!


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## Naren (Aug 23, 2008)

forelander said:


> All that said, what would be a good order to read stuff in so it makes general sense, or so that later stories such as At the Mountain of Madness can be enjoyed to their full potential?



Mm... That's pretty difficult and complicated...


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## forelander (Aug 23, 2008)

Naren said:


> Mm... That's pretty difficult and complicated...



Ok. Which stories should I leave till later then? No particular order, just what would be better left until I have more background?


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## distressed_romeo (Aug 23, 2008)

Inspired by this thread, I re-read 'The Dunwich Horror' this morning. Pure awesomeness!


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## distressed_romeo (Aug 23, 2008)

Regarding Derleth, he has his moments, but on the whole I have serious problems with his interpretation of the mythos...

The issue about his attempting to force-fit the stories into a Judaeo-Christian world-view has already been mentioned, but beyond that, there's also the problem of him attempting to fit all the Ancient Ones into a coherent, organised pantheon, which was never Lovecraft's intention (he often called the Chthulu stories a 'pseudo-mythology' in his letters), as one of the main reasons his stories are so effective, is that the human characters are almost always dealing with forces and entities that are totally, totally beyond their comprehension and frame of reference. The nature of all the different entities that keep popping up is meant to be confusing and ambiguous, which leads me on to the question of what order to read things in...I'd personally not worry too much, as there isn't really a logical order involved.

People who're interested in the earliest post-Lovecraft stuff, I'd recommend a book called 'Tales of the Lovecraft Mythos', which compiles a lot of the earliest ones by Derleth and company, and includes an excellent essay by ST Joshi about reading them in context, and whether Derleth deserves the derision he often gets from Lovecraft fans.


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## technomancer (Aug 23, 2008)

distressed_romeo said:


> People who're interested in the earliest post-Lovecraft stuff, I'd recommend a book called 'Tales of the Lovecraft Mythos', which compiles a lot of the earliest ones by Derleth and company, and includes an excellent essay by ST Joshi about reading them in context, and whether Derleth deserves the derision he often gets from Lovecraft fans.



Unless there's another one out there 'Tales of the Lovecraft Mythos' is actually edited by Robert M. Price. Of course with the number of these collections coming into and going out of print who knows 

This is the book I founf with that title: Amazon.com: Tales of the Lovecraft Mythos: Robert M. Price: Books

[action=technomancer]thinks he's going to reread The Case of Charles Dexter Ward after he finishes Passage to Dawn...[/action]


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## distressed_romeo (Aug 23, 2008)

technomancer said:


> Unless there's another one out there 'Tales of the Lovecraft Mythos' is actually edited by Robert M. Price. Of course with the number of these collections coming into and going out of print who knows
> 
> This is the book I founf with that title: Amazon.com: Tales of the Lovecraft Mythos: Robert M. Price: Books
> 
> [action=technomancer]thinks he's going to reread The Case of Charles Dexter Ward after he finishes Passage to Dawn...[/action]



That's the exact book I'm thinking of...I'm just getting mixed up as a have another Lovecraft book, that I purchased on the same day, with an intro by Joshi. Doh!


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## Naren (Aug 24, 2008)

forelander said:


> Ok. Which stories should I leave till later then? No particular order, just what would be better left until I have more background?



Not sure, but stories that kind of pull everything in his world together might be better to read after you have a background. Those would be: The Shadow Out Of Time, At The Mountains Of Madness, and maybe The Whisperer In Darkness... But really, I think any of those could be read first. You just wouldn't be able to relate those with previous stuff read before. 



distressed_romeo said:


> Regarding Derleth, he has his moments, but on the whole I have serious problems with his interpretation of the mythos...
> 
> The issue about his attempting to force-fit the stories into a Judaeo-Christian world-view has already been mentioned, but beyond that, there's also the problem of him attempting to fit all the Ancient Ones into a coherent, organised pantheon, which was never Lovecraft's intention (he often called the Chthulu stories a 'pseudo-mythology' in his letters), as one of the main reasons his stories are so effective, is that the human characters are almost always dealing with forces and entities that are totally, totally beyond their comprehension and frame of reference. The nature of all the different entities that keep popping up is meant to be confusing and ambiguous, which leads me on to the question of what order to read things in...I'd personally not worry too much, as there isn't really a logical order involved.
> 
> People who're interested in the earliest post-Lovecraft stuff, I'd recommend a book called 'Tales of the Lovecraft Mythos', which compiles a lot of the earliest ones by Derleth and company, and includes an excellent essay by ST Joshi about reading them in context, and whether Derleth deserves the derision he often gets from Lovecraft fans.



+10000 

I'm not a fan of Augest Derleth at all. He changes a lot of the things I love about Lovecraft's stories, a lot of the things that made his stories unique and special. Lovecraft made the entities beyond human comprehension, but Derleth over-simplifies them and classifies them by whether they're good or evil (which is something he decided himself since Lovecraft has them all as neutral), which of the four classical Greek elements they would fit into (even though NONE of them would fit into these elements, being so unearthly and unworldly that they cannot be associated with water, fire, earth, or air), and other elements of simplification.


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## budda (Aug 24, 2008)

that art, is fucking ridiculous.


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## neoclassical (Aug 24, 2008)

Both of those books are in my collection. I like the Arkham House one alot. Colophon Books in Ithaca, NY has a special Lovecraft section that has just about anything you could want in one stop, no matter how obscure. Ellen also stocks Dunsany, and the the other weird fiction authors who inspired Lovecraft, and works related and unrelated to the mythos by other mythos writers, Lovecraft's letters and studies.... I stop there when I'm going to Voodoo amps.

Adam


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## elrrek (Sep 4, 2008)

LOLTHULHU - genius is contained within here.


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## distressed_romeo (Sep 4, 2008)

elrrek said:


> LOLTHULHU - genius is contained within here.


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## technomancer (Sep 4, 2008)

elrrek said:


> LOLTHULHU - genius is contained within here.



Awesome


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