# What to use for gluing in frets?



## DistinguishedPapyrus (Dec 3, 2012)

I have some Bondo fiberglass resin that I'm very familiar in working with from many other non-guitar related projects but I've never used it to try to secure frets in a wenge fretboard. It says on the can that its good for wood and metal, I don't see any harm in using this stuff to glue in frets, however I'm sure theres a better alternative, any suggestions? Anyone ever tried Bondo resin? whats a good epoxy to use?


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## bob123 (Dec 3, 2012)

No definitely not. You need to use a slow curing epoxy. Some use CA, but I have my doubts about that holding up on the long haul.

For types, Zpoxy and West Systems are pretty highly recommended


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## Pikka Bird (Dec 3, 2012)

Well, as far as I know Bondo is to fill voids and for that it is very useful on woodm but it doesn't have much actual bonding strength for keeping things securely fastened.
The use of CA is to make the actual slot hard as hell so the tang doesn't slowly work its way out of the slot, whereas epoxy has sort of the same effect, but fills voids a little better than CA (it is less brittle, for one). CA on the other hand has the advantage of finding its own way into little cracks, whereas with epoxy you'll probably need to work it in there manually.

I personally think CA would be the easiest, and I'd believe it to be strong enough, but if you want to go the extra mile, some sort of hard and slow-setting epoxy will probably be a tad stronger, but require a bit more practice to get in there cleanly without smearing it around the fretboard which will require proper cleanup.


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## bob123 (Dec 3, 2012)

Pikka Bird said:


> Well, as far as I know Bondo is to fill voids and for that it is very useful on woodm but it doesn't have much actual bonding strength for keeping things securely fastened.
> The use of CA is to make the actual slot hard as hell so the tang doesn't slowly work its way out of the slot, whereas epoxy has sort of the same effect, but fills voids a little better than CA (it is less brittle, for one). CA on the other hand has the advantage of finding its own way into little cracks, whereas with epoxy you'll probably need to work it in there manually.
> 
> I personally think CA would be the easiest, and I'd believe it to be strong enough, but if you want to go the extra mile, some sort of hard and slow-setting epoxy will probably be a tad stronger, but require a bit more practice to get in there cleanly without smearing it around the fretboard which will require proper cleanup.





This isn't even close to correct. "Glueing in frets", and "glueing the tang ends" are two very different things. Using ca won't provide much bond strength to fret slots compared to epoxy, and is mostly used to keep the fret ends from popping up in well fitted boards. Also, the fretboard should already be "hard as hell" to begin with. That's why 99% of guitars use a very hard wood for the fretboard....

Its a totally different process, and isn't much more difficult in the long run.


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## Bloodbath Salt (Dec 3, 2012)

There's a lot more info on this site, I hope this helps. STEWMAC.COM : Issue 30, Which super glue to use: thin, medium or thick?


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## Danukenator (Dec 3, 2012)

bob123 said:


> This isn't even close to correct. "Glueing in frets", and "glueing the tang ends" are two very different things. Using ca won't provide much bond strength to fret slots compared to epoxy, and is mostly used to keep the fret ends from popping up in well fitted boards. Also, the fretboard should already be "hard as hell" to begin with. That's why 99% of guitars use a very hard wood for the fretboard....
> 
> Its a totally different process, and isn't much more difficult in the long run.



I think you may have misread his post. The tang doesn't just refer to the part on the fret end, the entire part pushed into the fret slot is the tang. You may be thinking he is referring to the process of filling in the fret ends to make the end of the fretboard look better.

What Pika posted seems to be accurate. CA can be very liquid and can fill gaps better than an epoxy. If properly used in a fret slot CA will hold frets down just fine. After all, the tang as "spikes" to help hold it in the wood. It's not like the frets are spring loaded to begin with. 

I worked at an acoustic guitar place that used CA when doing frets and they never had returns for frets working their way out.


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## bob123 (Dec 3, 2012)

Danukenator said:


> I think you may have misread his post. The tang doesn't just refer to the part on the fret end, the entire part pushed into the fret slot is the tang. You may be thinking he is referring to the process of filling in the fret ends to make the end of the fretboard look better.
> 
> What Pika posted seems to be accurate. CA can be very liquid and can fill gaps better than an epoxy. If properly used in a fret slot CA will hold frets down just fine. After all, the tang as "spikes" to help hold it in the wood. It's not like the frets are spring loaded to begin with.
> 
> I worked at an acoustic guitar place that used CA when doing frets and they never had returns for frets working their way out.



I said "tang ends" not simply "tang". The purpose of gluing in frets is "extra security", unless youre intending on doing a full on glue in fret job. If Im misreading, I apologize, but to use CA to glue in a fret isnt really the best choice. The ideal solution is just have a properly slotted board and seat your frets properly of course.


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## Walterson (Dec 4, 2012)

bob123 said:


> The ideal solution is just have a properly slotted board and seat your frets properly of course.



Thats it. You don't need any glue on properly seated frets..... all I use is a little epoxy and saw dust to close the ends of the fret slots after fretting.


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## Pikka Bird (Dec 4, 2012)

bob123 said:


> The ideal solution is just have a properly slotted board and seat your frets properly of course.



Then why on Earth would you ever even suggest epoxy in the first place? I do agree that this is preferable, but the guy asked what to use for gluing frets in, so that was what you and I both tried to help with. I'd personally want a hard-as-nails fretboard and only glue fret ends if I have cut back the tang for a binding or a cleaner looking installation, but what I said about CA is correct and I stand by it... Excuse me, but you don't seem to know much about the bonding strength of CA glue, but then again, maybe it's everybody else that's been wrong all the time, and what we're seeing is just a placebo effect and Stew Mac recommend it just because they want to be popular?

What you said first was that _you_ had doubts about CA holding up the in long run. So your unfounded personal doubts about CA makes everything I say "not even close to correct? Not sure I follow...

And thanks for the rep, BTW. Again, I might add. 


Yeah, I edited this a little because I was getting a little worked up, sorry about that.


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## JaeSwift (Dec 4, 2012)

Walterson said:


> Thats it. You don't need any glue on properly seated frets..... all I use is a little epoxy and saw dust to close the ends of the fret slots after fretting.



This. The little bit of epoxy with saw dust will prevent frets from popping out in really cold temperatures; though I've only ever seen this happen on maple fretboards. 

In short, you shouldn't need to do anything special to get frets seated -and remain seated- properly. Most pop up issues can be prevented by just filling the sides of the fret slots which you would normally do on an unbound fretboard anyway.

On bound maple fretboards I use some CA glue.


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## bob123 (Dec 4, 2012)

Ok pikka, lets try this again. The guy is asking about GLUING FRETS IN. 


See, Im jumping on you because you haven't even done anything. Allow me to explain WHY I answered the question the way I did, and why you really have NO idea what you're talking about (again, I simply hold my tongue a lot). Stick to your hardware swapping mod posts until you actually do a fret job, and stop crying about your rep. 




1) Some people CHOOSE to glue frets in. They cut over size, and use a triangle file to widen the opening. Parker straight up has no tangs on their frets, they use epoxy. Most people that do this, use epoxy. 

2) On older guitars that have been refretted a few times, the tangs have ripped open the fretboard where its not able to "Grab" the tangs any more. Theres a few options here, and a lot of people use epoxy as an option.

3) 

Fretting


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDFcMUA8a8k


CA itself is not a very strong glue, certainly not for holding metal to wood. The epoxy is FAR stronger, and will last longer. Again, the best solution is to have proper fret slots, but some people choose not to or dont have the ability to.




JaeSwift said:


> This. The little bit of epoxy with saw dust will prevent frets from popping out in really cold temperatures; though I've only ever seen this happen on maple fretboards.
> 
> In short, you shouldn't need to do anything special to get frets seated -and remain seated- properly. Most pop up issues can be prevented by just filling the sides of the fret slots which you would normally do on an unbound fretboard anyway.
> 
> On bound maple fretboards I use some CA glue.




you've apparently never refret a 1976 fender stratocaster with a rosewood fretboard haha


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## Danukenator (Dec 4, 2012)

bob123 said:


> I said "tang ends" not simply "tang". The purpose of gluing in frets is "extra security", unless youre intending on doing a full on glue in fret job. If Im misreading, I apologize, but to use CA to glue in a fret isnt really the best choice. The ideal solution is just have a properly slotted board and seat your frets properly of course.



I know YOU said tang ends but Pika didn't, he just said tang. I had no clue where you were getting tang ends from. I assume you miss understood Pika because you had addressed a point he didn't make.

The last bit is a little perplexing. Of course you want a nice fret seating. You still should use some adhesive, which is of course what we are discussing. 

I'll also agree that on a refret, epoxy may be better. But this isn't a refret on an old guitar. So, I still feel CA would be fine in this circumstance. I also think you've underestimated the strength of CA glue. It ISN'T as strong as epoxy. No one said it was, people are discussing what they believe works for gluing frets. Regardless of what is stronger, you haven't said why CA wouldn't work.

I'd also suggest losing the condescending attitude. It's rude and unnecessary.


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## bob123 (Dec 4, 2012)

Danukenator said:


> I know YOU said tang ends but Pika didn't, he just said tang. I had no clue where you were getting tang ends from. I assume you miss understood Pika because you had addressed a point he didn't make.
> 
> The last bit is a little perplexing. Of course you want a nice fret seating. You still should use some adhesive, which is of course what we are discussing.
> 
> ...



You're not wrong, at all. We agree with each other. I am merely going on the assumption that the OP wants to glue the ENTIRE fret down, based on what he's talking about in his original post. Of course CA is adequate for fret ends, but its far from used as pikka suggests, as this miracle panacea for guitar fret work.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Dec 4, 2012)

I would listen to bob because he's built several guitars...but hey..


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## bob123 (Dec 4, 2012)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> I would listen to bob because he's built several guitars...but hey..



So have some of these other gentlemen, and my advice is no better then theirs, however, Im just irritated at some people chiming in on stuff they have no clue about all the time... Im far from a professional, but I've actually done some of this stuff...


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## Thrashmanzac (Dec 4, 2012)

i used a little bit of tight-bond when fretting the two guitars i made. however the fret slots were tight and no glue was probably needed. however i used a bit of tight-bond for a bit more piece of mind. knowing that i can easily apply some heat and remove the frets if something happens is the reason i chose to use tight-bond over an epoxy. 
i should add i am an amateur luthier. very amateur


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## JStraitiff (Dec 4, 2012)

I would use an epoxy of some kind but gluing frets is an unnecessary step. You should be perfectly fine with pressing them in. It will make it easier to refret later too since you wont have to heat the frets enough to melt the glue.


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## Purelojik (Dec 7, 2012)

just flip a coin, epoxy or CA. BAM! problem solved.


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## Swyse (Dec 7, 2012)

I'd be interested to know how many refrets with CA glue some of you guys have done. Seems like first hand experience might be helpful when you are telling someone to do something thats hard to reverse.


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## demonx (Dec 7, 2012)

Superglue


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## bob123 (Dec 7, 2012)

demonx said:


> Superglue





Yes but you have precision gear, have been doing it a long time, and you're much more exact then anyone starting out  for a refret with a chipped out board, would you trust super glue for the long haul? 

Wish op would chime in and tell us what this is for.... that would help in answering accurately.


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## HaMMerHeD (Dec 7, 2012)

I use CA. Specifically, I use Loctite Superglue Gel. I run a skinny bead of it along the top of the slot, then bang the fret in.

It works well, and I've had no problems. The fret tangs are responsible for keeping the fret in place, not the glue. The glue is mostly there to fill any gaps. The glue may also be somewhat of a suggestion that the frets stay in place, but it's not that significant.

Also, you can remove CA with acetone if you ever need to refret the thing. Epoxy is not as forgiving.


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## demonx (Dec 7, 2012)

HaMMerHeD said:


> I use CA. Specifically, I use Loctite Superglue Gel. I run a skinny bead of it along the top of the slot, then bang the fret in.
> 
> It works well, and I've had no problems. The fret tangs are responsible for keeping the fret in place, not the glue. The glue is mostly there to fill any gaps. The glue may also be somewhat of a suggestion that the frets stay in place, but it's not that significant.
> 
> Also, you can remove CA with acetone if you ever need to refret the thing. Epoxy is not as forgiving.




This is the same brand superglue I'm using at the moment. I've tried many and I like this the best. 

As you said, its the tang that does the job. The glue is really only there as a safety blanket. Getting your slots right and hammering technique in the correct order is imperitive. If you hit the fret wrong, itll not seat right or you'll damage the slot. If this is the way someone frets then forget the glue and learn how to fret first.


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## HaMMerHeD (Dec 7, 2012)

demonx said:


> This is the same brand superglue I'm using at the moment. I've tried many and I like this the best.
> 
> As you said, its the tang that does the job. The glue is really only there as a safety blanket. Getting your slots right and hammering technique in the correct order is imperitive. If you hit the fret wrong, itll not seat right or you'll damage the slot. If this is the way someone frets then forget the glue and learn how to fret first.



Agreed. I like it because it stays put and gives me about 30 seconds or so to get the fret lined up and whacked in.

BTW, for anyone interested, Carl Thompson has a good video on fretting on youtube. 



He has a lot of great lutherie videos, actually. He does ramble quite a bit, but I find his videos all worth watching.


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## Miek (Dec 7, 2012)

I've heard mention of using capillary action to get the fretboard to draw the glue along the surface of the fret slot by watering down CA glue. Anybody know any more about that?


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## demonx (Dec 7, 2012)

Heres a quick mobile phone clip I did a while back for the project guitar forum - straight to the point with minimal rambling.
You might have to click "watch on youtube" and then maximise the screen to see the captions/description etc


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## HaMMerHeD (Dec 7, 2012)

^^ Pretty much exactly how I do it.


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## bob123 (Dec 8, 2012)

Ok professionals, is he doing a refret on an older guitar, or is he doing a brand new fresh job? 

You don't know, neither do I, both require different skill sets and techniques to accomplish. What if he used a wide kerf blade? If you used super glue on a worn out fretboard, Id call you an idiot. And yes, the tang is supposed to hold it, that should be understood before doing anything...

I remember my first refret... what a shamble. I just "ripped out" the frets, and went willy nilly with a razor blade to clean it up. Needless to say, the tangs werent wide enough to make them sit properly, and I ended up having to epoxy the frets in. I made a mess, but everything was functional  Im pretty sure if I used super glue, the shit would have popped out in a week. I know Im new to the building game, but I've been dicking with necks for over 10 years now...


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## HaMMerHeD (Dec 8, 2012)

Uh...ok...


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## bob123 (Dec 8, 2012)

HaMMerHeD said:


> Uh...ok...



meh, sarcasm aside, Im very correct. Dislike me or not, doesn make the fact you dont know whats going on any more then I do. Would you not use epoxy for gluing frets in on a wide spaced fret slot or not? 

The fact is, we're beating a dead horse until OP chimes in on whats going on.


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## Pikka Bird (Dec 8, 2012)

*Edited*


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## bob123 (Dec 8, 2012)

edited per agreement.


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## Pikka Bird (Dec 8, 2012)

*Edited*


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## bob123 (Dec 8, 2012)

edited per agreement.


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## bob123 (Dec 8, 2012)

edited per agreement.


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## Al NiCotin (Dec 8, 2012)

bob123 said:


> 1) *Parker* straight up has no tangs on their frets, *they use epoxy*. Most people that do this, use epoxy.



Some details about this please? (may be my technical datas aren't up to date)


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## HaMMerHeD (Dec 8, 2012)

bob123 said:


> meh, sarcasm aside, Im very correct. Dislike me or not, doesn make the fact you dont know whats going on any more then I do. Would you not use epoxy for gluing frets in on a wide spaced fret slot or not?
> 
> The fact is, we're beating a dead horse until OP chimes in on whats going on.



If I felt the situation warranted epoxy, I would use it. However, there are better ways of dealing with too-wide fret slots than slathering it up with epoxy.


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