# SD Black Winter Worship thread



## Blytheryn

It's been my favorite pickup since it came out, and SD just wrote a cool article about it's inception. Cool stuff. Definitely didn't know that it is actually Mayhem approved. Can we turn this into a Black Winter appreciation club?

It seems to me like this is pickup has an almost cult like following here, and almost everyone that has tried one has been converted. So, share your Black Winter infused axes, your tracks, and whatever and what not about it. I love geeking out about it, and I'm sure you guys do too.

http://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/the-tone-garage/the-birth-of-the-black-winter


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## exo

I love this pickup!


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## ToneLab

The bridge was too compressed for me but damn I found the neck sweet. In my Jackson MIJ Dominion I have a Custom 5 bridge and BW neck. Awesome tones from that.


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## spn_phoenix_92

I ordered my set pretty much right when they were released in America, and they've been my main pickup for everything. I don't think there's another pickup I've been more obsessed with, it's just got the perfect voicing imo. I made a black metal-ish demo for it a while back, the tone and video quality is a little outdated compared to what I have now, but I plan on making lots more videos and music with them.


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## Blood Tempest

My Epiphone LPC-90











My B.C. Rich Warlock Deluxe










My PRS SE Custom 24 7 string










I kinda have a thing for these pickups


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## bnzboy

it is a great bridge pick up but to be honest I think this pickup can handle way beyond Black Metal. Actually the more I play the more I think that this pickup is the least black metal style pickup I can think of; full sounding with lots of body. Btw I have it in my RGA121.


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## Blood Tempest

^You're right in that it is an extremely versatile pickup. The clarity and articulation are excellent. Those things somewhat lend themselves towards a black metal pickup since you can dump a TON of dirt onto your tone and still hear each note clearly. Especially when playing dissonant chords. It's still a relatively hot pickup, which is also needed.


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## ArtDecade

Blytheryn said:


> Can we turn this into a Black Winter appreciation club?



Sure... but wouldn't it make more sense in the *Pickups, Electronics & General Tech* Forum? 
http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=29


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## JD27

spn_phoenix_92 said:


> I ordered my set pretty much right when they were released in America, and they've been my main pickup for everything. I don't think there's another pickup I've been more obsessed with, it's just got the perfect voicing imo. I made a black metal-ish demo for it a while back, the tone and video quality is a little outdated compared to what I have now, but I plan on making lots more videos and music with them.




Awesome! I liked the added Black Winter shirt, I have one too.


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## JD27

ToneLab said:


> The bridge was too compressed for me but damn I found the neck sweet. In my Jackson MIJ Dominion I have a Custom 5 bridge and BW neck. Awesome tones from that.



One of the best nick pickups out there. I love the bridge for most anything metal. I have them in a SZ2020, Viper, and a San Dimas Style 2. I still want to order my custom version, the "Nuclear Winter" with A8s instead of Ceramics.


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## Blood Tempest

JD27 said:


> I still want to order my custom version, the "Nuclear Winter" with A8s instead of Ceramics.



Love that idea and that name!


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## Shask

JD27 said:


> One of the best nick pickups out there. I love the bridge for most anything metal. I have them in a SZ2020, Viper, and a San Dimas Style 2. I still want to order my custom version, the "Nuclear Winter" with A8s instead of Ceramics.



Are the Black Winters extremely bright in the San Dimas? I recently ordered an Invader for my So-Cal, because everything else I have tried in there is very bright with no chunk.


I also have a Neckthrough Maple / Alder guitar I am considering putting the Black Winters in. My only concern is that they would be too bright in there. I dont mind some brightness, but the fizzy, harsh kind of highs the current Kiesel Lithiums have gotta go, lol.


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## Blytheryn

Blood Tempest said:


> Love that idea and that name!



I had an idea similar to JD's, a less compressed version with more mids and grind. We'll see when I place that custom order...

Here's a quick video I have on my phone of my old ESP Horizon with 'Winters in it. 


and some pics of my guitars with the BW's.


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## Xcaliber

I recently debated between the Black Winter set and the Nazgul/Sentinent set and chose the latter, but now I'm thinking I should have gone with the Black Winter set.


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## JD27

Shask said:


> Are the Black Winters extremely bright in the San Dimas? I recently ordered an Invader for my So-Cal, because everything else I have tried in there is very bright with no chunk.
> 
> 
> I also have a Neckthrough Maple / Alder guitar I am considering putting the Black Winters in. My only concern is that they would be too bright in there. I dont mind some brightness, but the fizzy, harsh kind of highs the current Kiesel Lithiums have gotta go, lol.



I don't find them to be, I was worried they would with a maple board and alder body. I think they sound best in a big thick slab of mahogany. They definitely pair well with a darker voiced guitar.


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## Blytheryn

JD27 said:


> I don't find them to be, I was worried they would with a maple board and alder body. I think they sound best in a big thick slab of mahogany. They definitely pair well with a darker voiced guitar.



I agree with JD on this. I never found out what my Horizon was made out of, but I know that my Eclipse is Mahogany, and I haven't gotten a better tone out of any guitar that I have ever had my hands on that that. Black Winters in Mahogany rule.


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## Blood Tempest

Blytheryn said:


> I agree with JD on this. I never found out what my Horizon was made out of, but I know that my Eclipse is Mahogany, and I haven't gotten a better tone out of any guitar that I have ever had my hands on that that. Black Winters in Mahogany rule.



I also back this. All the guitars I own with Black Winters installed are darker woods (I know the LPC-90 and PRS SE are mahogany, but can't remember for the life of me what the Warlock is at the moment). I have yet to try them in a brighter wood bodied guitar, but I don't think that they would be over the top bright to where you wouldn't be able to EQ that out.


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## Dawn of the Shred

Such a wonderful very articulate pickup!


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## feraledge

Glad it was asked about putting BWs in Charvels. I've been curious about that myself, but I consider the BW to be really bright for alder and perfect for mahogany or darker sounding guitars. 
Tossing around the idea of putting something different in my So Cal, but am leaning towards the SD Custom or, of course, a Nazgul. 
I think this: BW is to mahogany what Nazgul is to alder/ash. 
Although, my custom SD defeats all IMO!! Nazgul with the upper mid boost of a BW and some of the low end growl of the JB. 

Seeing that Epiphone up there kills me a bit. There's one at the pawn shop up the road and when I saw it I thought, "I bet I can get that super cheap and put Black Winters in it". Maybe someday.


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## Blood Tempest

feraledge said:


> Seeing that Epiphone up there kills me a bit. There's one at the pawn shop up the road and when I saw it I thought, "I bet I can get that super cheap and put Black Winters in it". Maybe someday.



They made those in the Fujigen shop in Japan, and it plays INCREDIBLY. I lucked out finding one of those. It's on my very strict never sell list.


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## Shask

feraledge said:


> Glad it was asked about putting BWs in Charvels. I've been curious about that myself, but I consider the BW to be really bright for alder and perfect for mahogany or darker sounding guitars.
> Tossing around the idea of putting something different in my So Cal, but am leaning towards the SD Custom or, of course, a Nazgul.



I currently have a Duncan Custom in my So-Cal. It is pretty bright. I even installed a fixed tone control, and it is still pretty bright. I mean, I could work with it, but I would rather try something else, lol. I am trying an Invader next because this is my E guitar with 9-42 strings, and I want it to be able to chunk out Metallica type riffs. I have had the Tone Zone in there, and a Duncan Distortion. Both are OK, but not really "IT" yet.

The Black Winter idea is for a different guitar, but I think the 2 guitars are similar tonally. If the BW is like the Custom, but with less highs, more mids, and more output, I think I could love it  I know it gets compared to the Distortion, but I am curious about vs. the Custom also.

I have considered the Nazgul also, but I already have a Nazgul/Sentient in a different guitar. I generally dont like to have 2 of the same pickup, just for variety.


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## feraledge

Shask said:


> I currently have a Duncan Custom in my So-Cal. It is pretty bright. I even installed a fixed tone control, and it is still pretty bright. I mean, I could work with it, but I would rather try something else, lol. I am trying an Invader next because this is my E guitar with 9-42 strings, and I want it to be able to chunk out Metallica type riffs. I have had the Tone Zone in there, and a Duncan Distortion. Both are OK, but not really "IT" yet.
> 
> The Black Winter idea is for a different guitar, but I think the 2 guitars are similar tonally. If the BW is like the Custom, but with less highs, more mids, and more output, I think I could love it  I know it gets compared to the Distortion, but I am curious about vs. the Custom also.
> 
> I have considered the Nazgul also, but I already have a Nazgul/Sentient in a different guitar. I generally dont like to have 2 of the same pickup, just for variety.



Funny enough my So Cal is in standard right now. The Distortion is, to me, not a horribly long shot from an EMG (with more life to it), so it does Metallica well if you cut the mids on the amp. I don't have a problem with it, but could do for something with a little more to it. I will probably end up with a Nazgul in there, but I don't mind have similar sounding guitars. 
Will probably wait for my Sully 624T to show up, has a Nazgul/Sentient set in it, alder body, bolt on maple neck/FB. Very apples to apples in terms of how the Nazgul would sound in the So Cal. 
Of course what I really need is to buy a used mahogany Horizon to put the Black Winter in...


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## rampant

I love my black winter pair in my Dominion. They sound phenomenal.


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## Blytheryn

I feel like this thread is missing KailM...


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## AChRush1349

I'm wondering if I should get blackwinters or Bare Knuckles in my Jackson RR1 and my Kiesel SCB7. Playing in an experimental black/death/etc metal band right now and have a lot of weird dissonant chords and need clarity, balls, and dynamics. I have Bare Knuckles in my KE2, and my RGT and love them, but wondering if I should try something new with one of both of my other guitars.


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## Blytheryn

AChRush1349 said:


> I'm wondering if I should get blackwinters or Bare Knuckles in my Jackson RR1 and my Kiesel SCB7. Playing in an experimental black/death/etc metal band right now and have a lot of weird dissonant chords and need clarity, balls, and dynamics. I have Bare Knuckles in my KE2, and my RGT and love them, but wondering if I should try something new with one of both of my other guitars.



I can't speak for the Bare Knuckles, but the Black Winter seems right up your alley if you want clarity, punch and dynamics while piling on huge amounts of distortion.


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## MASS DEFECT

I have a Black Winter in my other alder guitar. Most of my guitars are alder bodied with Invaders in them. I think the Black Winter is a tweaked and more refined Invader . Same 3 Ceramic magnets that give notes that full and thick sound but the black winter has a tighter bass with more treble and upper mids.


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## Blood Tempest

^I could definitely see that. And I agree about what you said about the sound. In my Warlock, I have a Black Winter bridge paired with an Invader neck. I REALLY like that combination.


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## KailM

Blytheryn said:


> I feel like this thread is missing KailM...



I'm here!  Best damn pickups money can buy! And I agree they are far more versatile than simply a "black metal" pickup. But man, they do black metal just right....here's a track if you haven't heard it already. Every part of the song was recorded with my BW-equipped LTD Explorer, from cleans to chugs to blast-beat-driven tremelo holocaust 

https://soundcloud.com/kailm-1/the-gathering-of-hostsfist-of-the-heavens

I'm working on a track using the Black Winters with my HM-2 as well. Stay tuned...


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## Blytheryn

KailM said:


> I'm here!  Best damn pickups money can buy! And I agree they are far more versatile than simply a "black metal" pickup. But man, they do black metal just right....here's a track if you haven't heard it already. Every part of the song was recorded with my BW-equipped LTD Explorer, from cleans to chugs to blast-beat-driven tremelo holocaust
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/kailm-1/the-gathering-of-hostsfist-of-the-heavens
> 
> I'm working on a track using the Black Winters with my HM-2 as well. Stay tuned...



That was legit sick! For anyone that's curious about the Black Winter in a non metal context check this video out of Wes Hauch noodling around with it:


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## abeigor

KailM said:


> I'm here!  Best damn pickups money can buy! And I agree they are far more versatile than simply a "black metal" pickup. But man, they do black metal just right....here's a track if you haven't heard it already. Every part of the song was recorded with my BW-equipped LTD Explorer, from cleans to chugs to blast-beat-driven tremelo holocaust
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/kailm-1/the-gathering-of-hostsfist-of-the-heavens
> 
> I'm working on a track using the Black Winters with my HM-2 as well. Stay tuned...



Sounds KILLER!!!


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## anunnaki

Blytheryn said:


> That was legit sick! For anyone that's curious about the Black Winter in a non metal context check this video out of Wes Hauch noodling around with it:




I've been thinking of getting black winters for my rga121h but wasn't sure if I should get the neck or not, because I use the neck for cleans and I thought that the stock neck pickup sounded good.. but damn that sounds really good


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## spn_phoenix_92

JD27 said:


> Awesome! I liked the added Black Winter shirt, I have one too.



I got that black one & now the new white one


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## spn_phoenix_92

Here's my Black Winter loaded guitars

Ibanez RG421QM







RG331M






Also have an Ibanez Iceman I refinished satin white that will soon have a set of White Winters in


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## ofu

BW set in a custom SG-style guitar. All mahogany, ebony fretboard. Got the guitar with the pickups really close to the strings and the sound was muddy and there was no articulation. Experimented a bit with the height and the screws and now it's a killer. Bridge is tight and aggresive, neck is surprisingly nice with the gain and the volume rolled down. Middle position is both pickups - 30 ohms of quadbucker sludge festival. 

Overall, BWs slay for death metal, doom, etc. Is there a similar pickup that will fit in an ash body/maple neck, besides the Nazgul?

Sorry for the potato quality of the picture.

http://imgur.com/a/Ofaoq

Imgur doesn't like the forum for some reason, sorry for the link.


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## Blytheryn

spn_phoenix_92 said:


> I got that black one & now the new white one



They did such a great job with the merch. I'll definitely snag a Black Winter shirt or hoodie as soon as I have some extra money lying around for one. Call me a fashionable prick, but I really just don't think that most metal merch fits especially well. I'll likely just convert the shirt into a "stringer" or something. 

The Black Winter shirts look like Aborted merch almost though. Love them. 

I'll also get some sick riffs down when I get my 2i4 too, expect BM riffage akin to what I posted earlier!


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## feraledge

ofu said:


> BW set in a custom SG-style guitar. All mahogany, ebony fretboard. Got the guitar with the pickups really close to the strings and the sound was muddy and there was no articulation. Experimented a bit with the height and the screws and now it's a killer. Bridge is tight and aggresive, neck is surprisingly nice with the gain and the volume rolled down. Middle position is both pickups - 30 ohms of quadbucker sludge festival.
> 
> Overall, BWs slay for death metal, doom, etc. Is there a similar pickup that will fit in an ash body/maple neck, besides the Nazgul?
> 
> Sorry for the potato quality of the picture.
> 
> http://imgur.com/a/Ofaoq
> 
> Imgur doesn't like the forum for some reason, sorry for the link.



The KM6 is ash body, set maple neck BWs sound great in it. I think ash could go good with Nazgul or BW.


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## Blytheryn

Figured I would contribute a little more... Here's a clip I just found in the ass end of my video library with some tasty riffage.


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## Stuck_in_a_dream

How does the 7-string version compare? I have been intrigued by what I read/heard about these pickups. I recall someone mentioned they sound similar to EMG Het set, how accurate is that?


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## jc986

I have the BW set in my old Schecter C-1 Stealth and they sound amazing.


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## Ironbird666

Guilty as charged! I have four bridge models installed currently along with the neck pickup in my Epiphone LPC. I'm probably on the short list of people who dislikes the neck pickup - I'm more of a medium to low output neck pickup guy. It's just a touch too loud for me for what I like in a neck pickup, but I will agree it's very nice for what it is. 

I'll post some pics of the guitars when I get a chance but just for kicks, besides the above mentioned Epiphone, I have them in my Jackson DR, my EC-1000 VB, and my RG 7420. It's safe to say I like the Black Winter. Lol


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## Ironbird666

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> How does the 7-string version compare? I have been intrigued by what I read/heard about these pickups. I recall someone mentioned they sound similar to EMG Het set, how accurate is that?



I'll do some more side-by-side comparisons of my BW loaded guitars tomorrow and post what I think. The 7 string bridge model sounds pretty damn close to the bridge models I have, definitely enough to give your rig a consistent tone if you're switching between 6 and 7 string guitars. I couldn't compare them to the Het set unfortunately. I don't think the Het set has the gritty edge the BW's have on the top end?


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## buriedoutback

I put a BW into an Ibanez MMM1 and it sounded really clear and thick. I sold it shortly after that, so I can't give any in-depth details on it.
I'm considering getting a BW for my Ibanez RGA8 ... I have a Dimarzio D activator in there right now, which I really like. 
Like you guys (I assume) I always wonder if there is something that'll give me more beef in my death metal tone.
Thoughts?

FYI: I use a mesa triple rec > mesa 412 for my tone right now. I also use a HD500 (Dual rec amp model > mesa 412 cab model) for recording and sometimes into the EFX Return of my triple rec live.


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## Blytheryn

buriedoutback said:


> I put a BW into an Ibanez MMM1 and it sounded really clear and thick. I sold it shortly after that, so I can't give any in-depth details on it.
> I'm considering getting a BW for my Ibanez RGA8 ... I have a Dimarzio D activator in there right now, which I really like.
> Like you guys (I assume) I always wonder if there is something that'll give me more beef in my death metal tone.
> Thoughts?
> 
> FYI: I use a mesa triple rec > mesa 412 for my tone right now. I also use a HD500 (Dual rec amp model > mesa 412 cab model) for recording and sometimes into the EFX Return of my triple rec live.



SD Invader or BKP Warpig I would think...?


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## buriedoutback

^^^ Interesting thanks. I'll read up on those.


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## MASS DEFECT

+1 on the Invader. Thick and very open sounding. Just don't forget to set the pickup low against the strings to tighten up the sound.


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## ofu

feraledge said:


> The KM6 is ash body, set maple neck BWs sound great in it. I think ash could go good with Nazgul or BW.



Thanks for the input, I should really try the KM6, saw it in a local store when it first came out. Too bad here it costs a little more than my custom ordered guitar. Here's another reason to take the custom route once again, and I thought it will take me years until that moment. 

Anyway, remembered I made a little test with the new guitar when I got it, here's the sample. Excuse the sloppy chug goofing, but I thing there's plenty of beef. Sound is all vst - some ts - taranov fortin vst - some mesa ir.

http://vocaroo.com/i/s0ym2gCaCawN


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## Garfish

How would a black winter set fit in a gibson explorer? I use a jcm 2000 dsl which will be modded with the c12 mod + choke very soon through a 4x12 orange V30. I dont play uber death metal, my sound is probably more of a heavy thrash tone. I have also been looking at the pegasus and omega pickup with a sentient in the neck


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## Blytheryn

Garfish said:


> How would a black winter set fit in a gibson explorer? I use a jcm 2000 dsl which will be modded with the c12 mod + choke very soon through a 4x12 orange V30. I dont play uber death metal, my sound is probably more of a heavy thrash tone. I have also been looking at the pegasus and omega pickup with a sentient in the neck



Dude, I'm thinking it would sound chunky as hell. You'd get great palm mutes and plenty of grind!


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## will_shred

I have a Nazgul in my Ibanez RGD and it sounds amazing. Its very similar to the black winter just wound ever so slightly cooler. Duncan knocked it out of the park with the entire line of medium output metal pickups.


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## Blytheryn

will_shred said:


> I have a Nazgul in my Ibanez RGD and it sounds amazing. Its very similar to the black winter just wound ever so slightly cooler. Duncan knocked it out of the park with the entire line of medium output metal pickups.



I'd really love to hear what a Nazgul sounds like when it's not tuned to drop F to play 8 stringed djent like you hear everyone play on YouTube. Anyone on here want to record some decent grindy/black/thrash riffs on theirs?


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## jc986

I have a Nazgul in my SL2H tuned to Drop C. I'll try to get something thrown together by this weekend if I can.


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## feraledge

Anything I've recorded with the Nazgul is in Drop C.


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## KailM

Blytheryn said:


> I'd really love to hear what a Nazgul sounds like when it's not tuned to drop F to play 8 stringed djent like you hear everyone play on YouTube. Anyone on here want to record some decent grindy/black/thrash riffs on theirs?



I second this. I have literally heard NOTHING but djent out of the Nazgul, and I don't think it's the pickup necessarily. I want to hear what it can offer in terms of REAL death metal (i.e. -- not breakdowncore/chugcore/deathcore). I'm talking old school Death, Decapitated, At the Gates, and Bloodbath style riffs and production.


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## Blytheryn

feraledge said:


> Anything I've recorded with the Nazgul is in Drop C.



I'll hit up your SC later, Feral.


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## PunkBillCarson

KailM said:


> I second this. I have literally heard NOTHING but djent out of the Nazgul, and I don't think it's the pickup necessarily. I want to hear what it can offer in terms of REAL death metal (i.e. -- not breakdowncore/chugcore/deathcore). I'm talking old school Death, Decapitated, At the Gates, and Bloodbath style riffs and production.



Thirded, because curiosity. If they can sound really good for things other than Djent I want to know about.

Also, was playing earlier and accidentally switched to my neck pickup and heavily distorted, it was absolutely monstrous in a great way. Extremely nasty. I won't lie, KailM 90 percent the reason that I play a 6505+ with an Avatar 2x12 with Gov and Swamp Thang, so that's what it's going through.


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## will_shred

Maybe i'll record a Bloodbath cover and post it here


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## feraledge

will_shred said:


> Maybe i'll record a Bloodbath cover and post it here



THIS. I want this.

Finally found some alder body BW clips last night digging on youtube. About half sounded killer the other half sounded way harsh, but the recording on a lot of them wasn't good. My tendency when choosing pickups is to balance a guitar out, but maybe there's something to be said for the hyper aggressive alder-BW combo...
Dangling a trade out there, but may buy that or a Custom for my So Cal. However, not sure how far out those purchases will be, but I'm guessing not anytime soon.


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## luislais

Awesome pickups!!!

I have a set installed in my ESP LTD EC-2005 satin black and sounds really great through my Thunderverb and 5150, Black-death metal rules!!!


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## aceinet

So be gentle everyone but here is a video I put together of the Black Winter in a Charvel style guitar (alder body/maple neck). Went through 11 Kemper profiles to get an idea of how different the pickup sounds on various amps/settings/etc. Sloppy playing of course so pardon the mess. D Standard tuning. FYI-fresh out of the Youtube oven.


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## KailM

^^Nice work! Your playing was just fine! Now I'd love to hear someone do a demo just like that with the Nazgul...


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## MASS DEFECT

^that demo sounded great. proof the the black winter isnt too bright in alder bodied bolt ons. although you can hear more of that high midrange snarl come through, it stays warmer than an sd distortion.


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## PunkBillCarson

Awesome demo. Kind of makes me want to get a new Pro Mod and put some BW's in there.


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## Shask

MASS DEFECT said:


> ^that demo sounded great. proof the the black winter isnt too bright in alder bodied bolt ons. although you can hear more of that high midrange snarl come through, it stays warmer than an sd distortion.




Yeah, I agree. It definitely has an upper mid grind, but not what I would call "harsh".

I am thinking it might work in a maple/alder neckthrough.


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## aceinet

MASS DEFECT said:


> ^that demo sounded great. proof the the black winter isnt too bright in alder bodied bolt ons. although you can hear more of that high midrange snarl come through, it stays warmer than an sd distortion.



I could never get along with a SD Distortion. Didn't have the problem with the BW.


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## jc986

Here's a sloppy clip of the Nazgul in my SL2H not playing djent - tuned to Drop C:



And also recorded a clip of the Black Winter in my Schecter C-1 Stealth using the same settings - Tuned to Drop B:



Not the greatest audio quality or playing as it was just recorded with my iPhone while on my lunch break today, but hopefully you can get an idea.


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## will_shred

feraledge said:


> THIS. I want this.
> 
> Finally found some alder body BW clips last night digging on youtube. About half sounded killer the other half sounded way harsh, but the recording on a lot of them wasn't good. My tendency when choosing pickups is to balance a guitar out, but maybe there's something to be said for the hyper aggressive alder-BW combo...
> Dangling a trade out there, but may buy that or a Custom for my So Cal. However, not sure how far out those purchases will be, but I'm guessing not anytime soon.



Consider it done. Though I should probably change my strings before doing an intentional pickup demo. 

In the meantime, I recorded this yesterday with my Nazgul loaded Ibanez. The guitar tone is the Ola Satan patch on Bias with some tweaking.


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## Spicypickles

Jesus those bogner clips are meaty!


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## jc986

Spicypickles said:


> Jesus those bogner clips are meaty!



Yeah, the Uber is beastly.


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## ZXIIIT

Been using it since it came out, amazing pickup for my style, super aggressive yet defined.

I recorded this whole album with my ARZ307 that had a custom 7-string Black Winter.
http://morphesia.bandcamp.com/album/lucifer-rising


And now, I've been using a custom 6-string Black Winter live in this custom Les Paul I got.


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## Metalman X

Heres a couple of my current Winter Brigadiers. Found I particularly like them in set/thru neck mahogany bodied guitars. So here's a set in a Mako TR-2 (Japanese Bich copy from the 80's.... also my first real guitar... had this axe since 1995, and recently "revived" it). Other guitar is a Halo Hellfire.











These both sound awesome! Been doing alot of blackened thrash stuff with these and it's perfect (especially with the Uberschall, Engl, and Deizel models in my AxeFX Ultra).

Gonna be doing a little experiment though. Got a couple of Seymour Duncan BMP-1 modular preamps coming in the mail. I remember having awesome results in the past using these in conjunction with a Full Shred, and an Invader (yes, an Invader...sounds overkill? It was actually really thick and tight). One of them ought to arrive tomorrow. Gonna go in the Mako first. Should prove eeeeeenterestink!


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## Metalman X

And lest we forget, the White Winter Of Electric Excretion 












Okay.... so just an update. I got the BMP-1 Blackouts preamp today. So far tried it in the Mako with the Black Winter set in there. Sounded good, but honestly, I prefer the BW's without it methinks. Thickened them up, but the high end started to seemed a little fuzzed and couldn't quite dial it out. Backed the pickups away from the strings more as well, didn't really help. Highs just seemed more clear and razor like without the BMP. That said, may go again with the BMP and the Invader combo that I remember having good results with in the past. Got a Warlock and a black LTD V loaded with Invaders.

Moral of the story... don't frak with the Black Winter. It is more than effective on its own


----------



## Leberbs

Read the title and came here expecting to see some metal in church...carry on.


----------



## feraledge

Since this thread has expanded into BW and friends, I'll post up this video I tried to make before my daughter's craziness made it too hard to continue. Clock is always ticking. 
This is my custom SD "Obsidian" bridge which is a Nazgul with the articulation of the Black Winter and a touch of the JB's low end in my ESP Custom Shop Horizon (alder body, flame maple top, maple neckthrough/fb). Considering the BW is very defined by the mids, it's basically the best of the BW and Nazgul, IMO. Playing through a 5153 50 watt w/ matching 2x12" as best I could while my daughter's decided to intervene.


----------



## xwestonx

Curious on if there is a strong opinion on the BW vs the Nazgul? My Mayones Duvell Elite 7 came with the Nazgul / Sentient combo, but I find the BW very intriguing. I am mostly playing atmospheric / experimental / post black metal type of stuff. Clarity is essential since I enjoy using extended chord voicings in my writing. I am happy so far with the Nazgul (way better than my EMG loaded guitars), but would I get more mileage out of the black winters? Opinions on the sentient vs BW neck?

Alternatively I could swap out my stock pick ups on my Schecter Chris Poland Poltergeist... I don't particularly like the pickups on that guitar. That would give me the chance to A/B test the two sets to a degree.


----------



## MetalHead40

Dam this thread has me gassin for the Black Winters again!

I need to re-visit the BW set. Had them in an all walnut Carvin ST300c and liked the pickups but not the tone through the amp I had at the time (PV Triple XXX 2). That amp was so harsh and honky in the upper mids and harsh in the highs. I moved the BWs on a hopeless pickup search trying to correct the things I didn't like about the amp. 

Well I've since ditched that amp and now play on an Engl Savage 120 and an Engl FB100 and really think I need to try the Black Winters again.


----------



## PunkBillCarson

Anyone know how these would fare in Drop B/B Standard on a 26.9 scale?


----------



## lewis

so would these work in an alder body, maple neck, rosewood board, bolt on strat?

25,5 scale tuned to drop A#, going for that architects/monuments style etc


----------



## KailM

I have gone as low as drop-B with mine and they just killed it on that tuning. I didn't even have the guitar setup for that (strings too thin), but it handled the tuning just fine. Brutal as hell. Currently they're tuned to D Standard for most of my black metal material but I just did a new more death-metal-ish track in Drop-C. I already posted it on this forum but it belongs in the Black Winter Worship thread!!!

Here's the track. Ever wondered how BWs sound through a Boss HM-2 AND a 6505? Here it is: https://soundcloud.com/kailm-1/ur-avgrunden-han-stiger-v-20


----------



## Shask

I still plan on getting a set of these once the funds rotate to pickups again, lol. I am worried they might be too bright in the guitar I want to put them in, but I think it would be worth it to check them out!


----------



## dhgrind

tuned to A on a 26.5" 7 string Aristides (ngd incoming btw) they sound pretty good to me =)


----------



## Backsnack

My Brawley Hardtail is in the shop getting a set put in as we speak! Super excited. It's also getting strap locks installed and a setup. Hopefully it'll be done sometime next week, the local shop has a bit of a backlog, and they're also working on my new RG8.

Specs on the Brawley since I'm almost certain I'm the only one on the forum who has one:
Mahogany body
Maple top
Bolt-on maple neck/Rosewood fretboard
25.5" scale

Won't be tuning much lower than DADFAD, DADGAD, or DADFAE


----------



## Backsnack

JD27 said:


> One of the best nick pickups out there. I love the bridge for most anything metal. I have them in a SZ2020, Viper, and a San Dimas Style 2. I still want to order my custom version, the "Nuclear Winter" with A8s instead of Ceramics.



SD should pay you for this idea IMO.


----------



## MoonJelly

Backsnack said:


> Specs on the Brawley since I'm almost certain I'm the only one on the forum who has one:



Brawley's are sick for the price! I personally love the stock Alnico II pickups on the one I (used to) have. The ones produced by Laguna just aren't as good IMO.

I traded mine away for a Hagstrom XL-2, which then was stolen. Both rare and awesome guitars, for ~$300.


----------



## Backsnack

MoonJelly said:


> Brawley's are sick for the price! I personally love the stock Alnico II pickups on the one I (used to) have. The ones produced by Laguna just aren't as good IMO.
> 
> I traded mine away for a Hagstrom XL-2, which then was stolen. Both rare and awesome guitars, for ~$300.



High five to a fellow (former) Brawley owner. I think we're a rare breed. 

Oh wow, so THAT's where Keith went! A quick Google search brought up that unmistakable Sharkbite headstock. Looks like there's a used one at a GC somewhere:
http://www.guitarcenter.com/Used/La...-Rose-Solid-Body-Electric-Guitar-112447123.gc

They are super obscure guitars. As soon as my A124HT popped up on eBay, in TRANS RED (my favorite color of the bunch), I had to grab it. Especially when it was only $150 and was hardly used. 

The features on those guitars at retail price in 2005-ish or whenever they were in stores were an amazing bang for the buck. Although the stock pickups don't sound bad, they just seem kind of plain to me. Very clear, but not a lot of character or impact to them. I also love the lightweight nature of the guitar, it's almost comparable to an Ibanez S series. Makes me wonder if they were chambered.


----------



## Blytheryn

Backsnack said:


> SD should pay you for this idea IMO.



This. I want this so bad.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Backsnack said:


> High five to a fellow (former) Brawley owner. I think we're a rare breed.
> 
> Oh wow, so THAT's where Keith went! A quick Google search brought up that unmistakable Sharkbite headstock. Looks like there's a used one at a GC somewhere:
> http://www.guitarcenter.com/Used/La...-Rose-Solid-Body-Electric-Guitar-112447123.gc
> 
> They are super obscure guitars. As soon as my A124HT popped up on eBay, in TRANS RED (my favorite color of the bunch), I had to grab it. Especially when it was only $150 and was hardly used.
> 
> The features on those guitars at retail price in 2005-ish or whenever they were in stores were an amazing bang for the buck. Although the stock pickups don't sound bad, they just seem kind of plain to me. Very clear, but not a lot of character or impact to them. I also love the lightweight nature of the guitar, it's almost comparable to an Ibanez S series. Makes me wonder if they were chambered.



I have 2 lagunas and they're both super solid guitars for the money. my sunburst one is getting a titan put in soon


----------



## MoonJelly

Kieth Brawley did sell the rights to Laguna, and he worked for them through GC for a little while. He currently works for Taylor Guitars. Sorry, didn't mean to get so OT. Black Winters rock!


----------



## Backsnack

MoonJelly said:


> Kieth Brawley did sell the rights to Laguna, and he worked for them through GC for a little while. He currently works for Taylor Guitars. Sorry, didn't mean to get so OT. Black Winters rock!



That's kinda how forums go, methinks. Either way, it's interesting to hear about what became of my favorite under-the-radar guitar brand of yore.


----------



## youngthrasher9

Leberbs said:


> Read the title and came here expecting to see some metal in church...carry on.



Kind of a necro reply, but I actually played a black winter loaded guitar that I owned during a church gig at one point.

Even played a few sabbath riffs when everyone was distracted \m/


----------



## chassless

^ well how did it sound?


----------



## youngthrasher9

chassless said:


> ^ well how did it sound?



Blasphemous! 

Jk

That guitar and pickup combo rarely let me down, I was playing everything from blues to death metal it always sounded great. The guitar was a PRS Torero. I ended up selling it to fund a baritone. I love my baritones but I still would like to revisit the BW's at some point. They were f_cking brutal.


----------



## youngthrasher9

The bridge pickup was easily the earthiest, woodiest sounding high output pickup I've ever played. Super high output but insanely natural sounding.


----------



## Backsnack

youngthrasher9 said:


> The bridge pickup was easily the earthiest, woodiest sounding high output pickup I've ever played. Super high output but insanely natural sounding.



It seems I've read so much feedback about the neck pickup in this set being the star of the show. Can't wait till my axe gets back from the shop!

I also appreciate how a "super brootalz" pickup set has ended up being an accidentally amazingly versatile set for many other styles. Rumor has it even blues guys have swapped these into their solid bodies for the articulation at lower gain levels.


----------



## Gila_Crisis

I mounted a BW in the bridge of a Schecter SLS C7 7 string guitars paired with the original SD Jazz at the Neck. I play everything from ambient, jazz and dub, up to doom metal and noise and the BW does always a wonderful job! Also the clean sounds are super sweet!
I don't understand the black metal hype SD has put on these PUs since I find it out to be sooo versatile! 
Now I'w ordered a new custom made guitar (6 string baritone with Aluminum Neck! search Nude Guitars: a really cool italian guitar builder!) and we'll be putting a set of BW in this new one ^_^


----------



## chassless

^ so you replaced the stock Full Shred with a BW? How would you compare them? I love my FS's but I'm considering the BW's for an upcoming guitar


----------



## Gila_Crisis

I decided to change the Full Shred, because it lacked low frequencies! I liked its bright tone, but I couldn't live without my beloved low frequencies . 
So after a bit of a search I went for the BW and I'm really glad about it, it retained the clarity I was seeking for, but with the added low end I was missing on the FS.


----------



## Metropolis

Gila_Crisis said:


> I decided to change the Full Shred, because it lacked low frequencies! I liked its bright tone, but I couldn't live without my beloved low frequencies .
> So after a bit of a search I went for the BW and I'm really glad about it, it retained the clarity I was seeking for, but with the added low end I was missing on the FS.



Does Black Winter have kind of strong lower mid section? I ask, because it's hard to justify from all these videos how it would really sound and feel in person. Clarity and presence is what these pup's have, but not as shrill as Nazgul or Distortion.


----------



## KailM

^^It is a pretty balanced pickup. They say the EQ on it is 666, lol. But that's actually pretty close to the truth. I would actually say it's closer to 10 11 10 because it's really aggressive at all frequencies. The mids have the edge though, over the other frequencies. They provide this nice grind that cuts through the mix, but is not shrill.

What I like about it is there is a healthy amount of low-end, but not so much that it's boomy; I guess you could say it's got plenty of low-mids/high bass if that's what you're after. So it's perfect for older sounding death metal (not modern death-core which is just an offshoot of djent) and pretty much any black metal or thrash sound you want provided you adjust your amp for it. If you want to hear another clip, here's a song I did which features a little bit of everything from the Black Winters; bridge-only on all heavy parts, both pups on cleans, and a mix of the neck and bridge for leads, depending on the part. But it's all one guitar through a 6505 (cleans were through my Peavey Classic 30 though):

https://soundcloud.com/kailm-1/the-gathering-of-hostsfist-of-the-heavens


----------



## MetalHead40

Metropolis said:


> Does Black Winter have kind of strong lower mid section? I ask, because it's hard to justify from all these videos how it would really sound and feel in person. Clarity and presence is what these pup's have, but not as shrill as Nazgul or Distortion.



When I was rocking the BW set the thing that sticks in my memory was the lows. I don't recall ever playing a bridge pup that seemed to accentuate such subsonic bass frequencies. It was awesome! DEEP lows but tight as all get out. Gonna have to get another set.

I agree with KailM in regards to the balance in terms of mids/highs, but for some reason I distinctly remember the low end was monstrous but in a really good way. Maybe it was just with my setup or maybe I had a set with something wrong?


----------



## Metropolis

Sounds that I would like BW really much  even if thrash and oldschool death metal tones aren't what I'm going for. More melodic death metal and folk metal style of tones. Of course it's extreme and hi-gain tone usually, but these sound quite versatile for everything.


----------



## KailM

MetalHead40 said:


> When I was rocking the BW set the thing that sticks in my memory was the lows. I don't recall ever playing a bridge pup that seemed to accentuate such subsonic bass frequencies. It was awesome! DEEP lows but tight as all get out. Gonna have to get another set.
> 
> I agree with KailM in regards to the balance in terms of mids/highs, but for some reason I distinctly remember the low end was monstrous but in a really good way. Maybe it was just with my setup or maybe I had a set with something wrong?



I don't think it's just you -- I also notice the low-end that these provide. It's a low-end that kind of "blooms" slightly after a palm-mute. I don't get that with my Blackouts. Anyway, they sound massive and angry. Course, that could also just be my setup as well. But they are noticeably preferable to my Blackouts, and pretty much any other pickup I've ever tried as far as aggressive metal tones go.


----------



## MetalHead40

^^^
If your experiencing similar low end response, I'm thinking my perceptions were accurate then. 

Bloom is a good way of putting it. The bass seemed to erupt from deep in the subsonic frequency range. I couldn't believe what I was hearing at the time I owned them. Might have to try a set in the Kiesel Aries I have coming if the Lithiums prove too thin in the lows. Was gonna try a Bare knuckle HD but after all this BW talk well.....


----------



## nistley

So I really liked the Black Winters, but found them too harsh for lead stuff, they are not my favorite pickup, Juggernaut is. But, a few weeks ago I put my Black Winters into a LP copy, 10.5 strings, and wow, it is a perfect sonic fit with the mids and lows filled in. It can do funky stuff or growl. I think I understand the Worship now, but they need a right guitar.


----------



## Blytheryn

nistley said:


> So I really liked the Black Winters, but found them too harsh for lead stuff, they are not my favorite pickup, Juggetnaut is. But, a few weeks ago I put my Black Winters into a LP copy, 10.5 strings, and wow, it is a perfect sonic fit with the mids and lows filled in. It can do funky stuff or growl, I think I understand the Worship now, but they need a right guitar.




What was the LP's body wood? BW's are amazing in mahogany.


----------



## nistley

Blytheryn said:


> What was the LP's body wood? BW's are amazing in mahogany.



Hard to tell through red coat, but yes, has to be something dark sounding and very heavy, so probably mahogany


----------



## MAJ Meadows SF

Holy Sh!t how did I miss this thread?! Well, better late than never. I have a few Black Winters, including one in my BC Rich Chuck Tribute Stealth, an AV Black Winter/Sentient pair in a Daemoness Cimmerian VII, and of course I'm particularly proud of this little piece of press:

http://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/product-news/the-daemoness-valkenbyrd-viii

Technically, it's a Black Winter/Nazgul hybrid bridge. It's super unique and thick, full tonally. I don't quite dig it 100%, but it was experimental. It really nails what the guitar commands to play: old school Morbid Angel. It excels at dirty ass old school death metal and for sounds like Sulphur Aeon, Dead Congregation, etc. And yes, it is clear as a bell. I want a little more harmonic responsiveness, because you really gotta dig into the lower strings for pinches, or I just suck unless I'm using BKPs. I'm going to opt to try a Black Winter A8, like someone else mentioned on here (fantastic idea dude, hails!). An A8 Nazgul is in the works to see how it tames the highs.

The neck is a standard SD Distortion neck, which does the job, but I may swap that too. And yes, I will probably mail the pickups back to retain the covers to go with the Lovecraft Yog-Sothoth theme. 

I seriously owe clips, but I've been deployed and in flux and haven't been able to set up anything decent to record with. Things are settling in as of late so hopefully soon. The AV Black Winter is a gem, and I'm sure the A8 version will be even better for different reasons. SD really struck gold, or frosty snow, with these pickups. 

On the Daemoness Facebook page there is a clip of Dylan ripping pinch squeals out of the Valkenbyrd. It was played through a Roland Micro Cube!


----------



## Blytheryn

Welcome to the church of the 'Winter Maj!

JD27 came up with the idea for the Alnico 8 swap... It just so happens to be exactly what I want my eventual custom BW to be. Grindier, less compressed, and with punchier mids. Something that would thrive with the gain not at insanely high levels. I'm really going for a Follow the Reaper/Hatebreeder type of old school tone.

Here's a little something from SD about Alnico 8's:



> "It&#8217;s way more powerful than the Alnico 5 but not as overly so as ceramics. Seymour Duncan launched the Alternative 8 a couple of years ago as their first production pickup featuring the Alnico 8 magnet and that pickup is a true testament of the power of the Alnico 8. If you were to swap a magnet for the Alnico 8, expect a huge boost in power. The mids gain articulation and crunch, and the highs become more pronounced but aren&#8217;t harsh and the lows are huge and tight."


----------



## Bear R.

Black Winters are nice..I installed a set in my ESP..Great pups..!!!.



the alnico 8 mag swap sounds like a Good thing though...


----------



## xwestonx

I'm not dissatisfied with my nazgul... but I am constantly wondering if the BW would be better... I guess I need to order a set up and find out!


----------



## Backsnack

Finally got my Brawley back with the BWs installed, set up, and a fresh set of strings. This guitar has bawls of steel now. 

I cranked up my Demonizer pedal and the sound just put a huge grin on my face. Insane amounts of punch and mids, but somehow remain to be articulate and not fizzy. Initial impressions are that I'm impressed and that these are going to be so much fun!

The output is quite high. Volume knob at 100, the neck pickup will most certainly break up a clean channel, it's no joke. But, back the volume knob off just a little and it's super smooth and jazzy. 

I should put up some sound clips playing a couple Opeth riffs.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Just ordered some custom shop black winters for my next custom guitar


----------



## rexbinary

Man I think I have been seduced enough to start ordering as well. I've watched every Black Winter clip I can find on YouTube. I'm going to for sure replace the Dactovators in my ESP AW-7. (The Dactovators are really muddy in that guitar as others have reported.) Also I'm thinking about putting them in my Jackson Pro Rhoads RR3....


----------



## Smoked Porter

^ Putting Black Winters in an AW-7 is one of the best decisions you can make in life.


----------



## Blytheryn

https://soundcloud.com/chris-bollyn/close-air-support-thrash

Here's a song I'm working on, bridge BW's in full afterburner with TSE X50. That's it.


----------



## J_Mac

Really want some of these, hard to find used in the EU though


----------



## KailM

^^That sounds awesome, Blythern. Can't wait to hear that with drums!


----------



## lewis

J_Mac said:


> Really want some of these, hard to find used in the EU though



GAK, stringsdirect,gig gear, merchant city music, are just a few uk companies selling sets. Thomann also sell them from germany


----------



## KnightBrolaire

I've got an old ibanez neck sitting around that I'm strapping a destroyer body to. got a pair of these to go in it


----------



## Shask

Got a Trembucker bridge and neck today. Not sure when I will have time to install them, but at least they are sitting there in the box, lol. Nice looking box in the sea of Duncan pink boxes of my other pickups.

Got them for a maple/alder Kiesel. I am hoping they aren't too bright, and can bring in some chunk/chug.


----------



## J_Mac

Aha! Found a RAN Crusher with BWs installed. Plus the old set of Knuckles! Bargain! Looks ace, haven't plugged it in yet though.


----------



## rexbinary

Looks sweet man. Plug it in already!!


----------



## lewis

Shask said:


> Got a Trembucker bridge and neck today. Not sure when I will have time to install them, but at least they are sitting there in the box, lol. Nice looking box in the sea of Duncan pink boxes of my other pickups.
> 
> Got them for a maple/alder Kiesel. I am hoping they aren't too bright, and can bring in some chunk/chug.



can we have a review etc once they are fitted?. Im after chunk myself and have the same combo of woods for a guitar Im searching for a certain sound in. These were on the list along with SH5's, dimebuckers and some Bareknuckle


----------



## J_Mac

WOAH.

This is like... the mid tone I've been searching for all my life 



Only problem is - the previous owner has filed down the nut so there is like, 0.1mm clearance on the 1st fret (when fretting 3rd). Spanner. Have emailed RAN for another nut.


----------



## Blytheryn

J_Mac said:


> WOAH.
> 
> This is like... the mid tone I've been searching for all my life
> 
> 
> 
> Only problem is - the previous owner has filed down the nut so there is like, 0.1mm clearance on the 1st fret (when fretting 3rd). Spanner. Have emailed RAN for another nut.



Shouldn't have waited as long to try them out... I'm beyond stoked to get my Horizon back, loaded with winters in that one too. Going to track some Norther as soon as I get the chance!


----------



## Shask

lewis said:


> can we have a review etc once they are fitted?. Im after chunk myself and have the same combo of woods for a guitar Im searching for a certain sound in. These were on the list along with SH5's, dimebuckers and some Bareknuckle



I am sure I will like it. I have the Invader, Distortion, Custom, and Nazgul in other guitars, so I assume this will be in the same family, lol.

I am thinking it will be like an Invader+Distortion, but with the tightness of the Nazgul......


----------



## KnightBrolaire

I'm sure some of you guys have seen this before but here's Rick Graham playing with some black winters.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yFm-eQ05Rw


----------



## Donce

This thread first of gave me a lot of insight on BW's! I haven't played with BW's, but have been looking at them for awhile and would love to put them in a guitar. 

Has anyone tried a Nazgul bridge and BW neck in their setup? I was thinking of this combo for my already Nazgul/Sentient setup for a Mahogany guitar.


----------



## Bear R.

Donce said:


> Has anyone tried a Nazgul bridge and BW neck in their setup? I was thinking of this combo for my already Nazgul/Sentient setup for a Mahogany guitar.




No I havent, but I Installed a Pegasus in the bridge of my ESP and left the BW in the neck...and man, these two compliment each other very well..When you split the coils, you get this Tone that's pretty special..Kinda like SRV's tone but fatter and heavier..and you know, I don't use the coil splitting thing to much, but with this new combo, I will be going there more often..ha,ha...



Now I could think different about this in a month or two..but so far, Im liking what Im hearing..


----------



## Donce

Bear R. said:


> No I havent, but I Installed a Pegasus in the bridge of my ESP and left the BW in the neck...and man, these two compliment each other very well..When you split the coils, you get this Tone that's pretty special..Kinda like SRV's tone but fatter and heavier..and you know, I don't use the coil splitting thing to much, but with this new combo, I will be going there more often..ha,ha...



Thanks for the input! I think I'm going to do the BW's in the neck then. If anyone is interested I can share how that goes, although it may be a little bit before I put the BW's in.


----------



## AkiraSpectrum

Just curious, has anyone played both the regular Black Winter's as well as the Blacked-Out Black Winter's that come in the Schecter KM-6 MK1? I only ask because the pole pieces are different and I was wondering what effects they had on the pickups tone.


----------



## feraledge

Donce said:


> Thanks for the input! I think I'm going to do the BW's in the neck then. If anyone is interested I can share how that goes, although it may be a little bit before I put the BW's in.



Count me in as interested. 
Put a BW bridge in my swamp ash 97 ESP Horizon NT. It sounds killer. The neck PUP is the original ESP one and alright, but I'll likely switch it to a BW neck in time.


----------



## ZXIIIT

For those the need further convincing on getting a Black Winter.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

my custom shop black winters should here soon


----------



## JD27

KnightBrolaire said:


> my custom shop black winters should here soon



What did you get done to them?


----------



## KnightBrolaire

JD27 said:


> What did you get done to them?



Just had them made active mount. Was going to get them engraved w nordic runes but apparently they can't engrave on the plastic w their machine.


----------



## Blytheryn

KnightBrolaire said:


> Just had them made active mount. Was going to get them engraved w nordic runes but apparently they can't engrave on the plastic w their machine.



Shoulda' got them covered!


----------



## Nag

I don't think this has been posted in here yet.

Found this on youtube : 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6TOfQZCowg

It's not black metal, and it sounds pretty damn convincing.


----------



## zjb7777

But... But.. but. Does it djent?


----------



## Sumsar

Zombie13 said:


> For those the need further convincing on getting a Black Winter.




Yeah this made me think of Limbonic Art. All their albums are with programmed drums. Let me be the first one to say that programmed blastbeats anno 1997 was not the sh!t, so to speak  though the first couple of albums are legendary ofc.


----------



## Shask

lewis said:


> can we have a review etc once they are fitted?. Im after chunk myself and have the same combo of woods for a guitar Im searching for a certain sound in. These were on the list along with SH5's, dimebuckers and some Bareknuckle



I finally got these installed a week or so ago, and got some time to play it.

I am really liking them compared to the Kiesel Lithiums so far. They kind of remind me of a mix of the Invader and Distortion. They have the lows and mid spike of the Invader, and the aggressive high end of the Distortion. However, they don't have the extreme low end of the Invader, and the harsh high end of the Distortion. They are like the mix of both, without the annoying extremes of either. When compared with my other guitar with a Distortion, the Distortion sounds so fuzzy, and harsh next to the Black Winter. It is like the BW is the clearer, refined, dialed-in version.

The BW neck kind of reminds me more of a Dimarzio neck sound. More compressed and mid boosted. Usually Duncan neck pickups are more mid scooped. I typically like Dimarzio neck pickups for when I want to be a wannabe shredder, so I am liking this. Nice contrast to the Sentient in my other guitar.

So far, I really like them. The guitar does not have massive Les Paul type chunk, but it definitely has a more solid low end than before. It is great single note definition due to the mid spike, and the highs are present, but not harsh. They are not as bright as the Lithiums were. It almost sounds "bland" in a way.... nothing major really sticks out.... but at the same time, that also means not much to complain about. Just a solid Duncan sound.

I would assume based on other guitars that the Custom SH-5 would be chunkier, but it also has a lot of presence, so I was worried it would be too bright in this guitar. I had to take it out of a Charvel Superstrat because the high end presence grated on my nerves. It is the chunkiest pickup I know (Even moreso than the Invader in some ways), but it has to be paired correctly because of the high end. I have not had a Dimebucker in many years, but I don't really do rail pickups any more. They usually have so much treble/presence that they sound fuzzy, like a bad fuzz pedal is always on.

I definitely think the newer Duncan designs are clearer sounding, and tighter than the older designs. The BW and Nazgul both sound clearer, and more focused than the Distortion, JB, etc....


----------



## AkiraSpectrum

Shask said:


> I finally got these installed a week or so ago, and got some time to play it.
> 
> I am really liking them compared to the Kiesel Lithiums so far. They kind of remind me of a mix of the Invader and Distortion. They have the lows and mid spike of the Invader, and the aggressive high end of the Distortion. However, they don't have the extreme low end of the Invader, and the harsh high end of the Distortion. They are like the mix of both, without the annoying extremes of either. When compared with my other guitar with a Distortion, the Distortion sounds so fuzzy, and harsh next to the Black Winter. It is like the BW is the clearer, refined, dialed-in version.
> 
> The BW neck kind of reminds me more of a Dimarzio neck sound. More compressed and mid boosted. Usually Duncan neck pickups are more mid scooped. I typically like Dimarzio neck pickups for when I want to be a wannabe shredder, so I am liking this. Nice contrast to the Sentient in my other guitar.
> 
> So far, I really like them. The guitar does not have massive Les Paul type chunk, but it definitely has a more solid low end than before. It is great single note definition due to the mid spike, and the highs are present, but not harsh. They are not as bright as the Lithiums were. It almost sounds "bland" in a way.... nothing major really sticks out.... but at the same time, that also means not much to complain about. Just a solid Duncan sound.
> 
> I would assume based on other guitars that the Custom SH-5 would be chunkier, but it also has a lot of presence, so I was worried it would be too bright in this guitar. I had to take it out of a Charvel Superstrat because the high end presence grated on my nerves. It is the chunkiest pickup I know (Even moreso than the Invader in some ways), but it has to be paired correctly because of the high end. I have not had a Dimebucker in many years, but I don't really do rail pickups any more. They usually have so much treble/presence that they sound fuzzy, like a bad fuzz pedal is always on.
> 
> I definitely think the newer Duncan designs are clearer sounding, and tighter than the older designs. The BW and Nazgul both sound clearer, and more focused than the Distortion, JB, etc....



great review!


----------



## takotakumi

Was feeling that the stock Sentient/Pegasus Pups were seriously underwhelming my 080 and was able to snag a pair of Black Winters for real cheap last week. 

Got them installed yesterday...FAAAAAAAKK
I will never ever relate the pegasus/nazgul/sentient to these beasts
Its like the 7 and 8 strings leveled up/came back to life
Tight and massive low end and LOVE that growl that these pups breathe, perfectly what I was looking for 

The neck pup is better as well, does not have that blandness/dullness that the sentient has. I feel it a bit more creamier/sings better, in a way reminds me of a cross between a liquidfire I used to have and the Air Norton on my 1527...

Super impressed with these pups, I now understand why they are revered so much haha Glad to join the group 

Some quick snaps:


----------



## SnowfaLL

Just snagged a used one from here today, hoping I dig it when it arrives. I've tried so many bridge pickups, almost all the Dimarzio's, a few BKP (only liked the HolyDiver but wasnt perfect) and Lithium bridge is kinda bland. I recall the JB being pretty solid back when I was 18, so maybe the BW can give a bit of that back with a modern twist.

It'll be going in my Carvin ST300T which has an odd wood combo that makes pickups hard to find - 5pc mahogany neck with alder body sides, maple top. Probably the reason why most pickups fail in this guitar. Hope it works!


----------



## Blytheryn

SnowfaLL said:


> Just snagged a used one from here today, hoping I dig it when it arrives. I've tried so many bridge pickups, almost all the Dimarzio's, a few BKP (only liked the HolyDiver but wasnt perfect) and Lithium bridge is kinda bland. I recall the JB being pretty solid back when I was 18, so maybe the BW can give a bit of that back with a modern twist.
> 
> It'll be going in my Carvin ST300T which has an odd wood combo that makes pickups hard to find - 5pc mahogany neck with alder body sides, maple top. Probably the reason why most pickups fail in this guitar. Hope it works!



Definitely let us know what you think!


----------



## Blytheryn

Technical stuff with BW's. Definitely worth a watch!


----------



## KailM

Here's a new demo I did for my new amp. It's a medley -- first partial song is my own, and uses Black Winters. Second partial song is a Blut Aus Nord cover; again, same guitar with BWs.

In the last partial song (Entombed cover), I used my Schecter V which has Blackouts. Question: What pedal did I use on that one? 

Enjoy:

https://soundcloud.com/kailm-1/6505a


----------



## chopeth

^Those BW sound great! Love BAN too, one of these days I want to make a cover of Discipline's Libration


----------



## Mraz

I should probably just get this set for my upcoming custom build, since apparently they sound better than anything.. Wanted to go for the Pegasus/Sentient combo until I stumbled upon this thread and read that the PUs are apparently muddy, which is a no-go!


----------



## elkoki

So how do they sound in mahogany ?


----------



## PunkBillCarson

elkoki said:


> So how do they sound in mahogany ?



Like your guitar is trying to show the world how much it hates it. I put them in my Epiphone Goldtop which had the stock pickups in it, and the change was instant. Death... Just plain ....ing death, with the ability to be quite charming when it needs to be. You wouldn't believe that a pickup with so much aggression could be so nice, but it does and it does it quite nicely.


----------



## Mathemagician

Thinking about dropping a set in an incoming JP7. Anyone use these in basswood? I mostly play metal-core/melodeath.


----------



## JD27

Mathemagician said:


> Thinking about dropping a set in an incoming JP7. Anyone use these in basswood? I mostly play metal-core/melodeath.



They sounded great in this.


----------



## chopeth

elkoki said:


> So how do they sound in mahogany ?



They sound amazing in my ibanez s520ex, but that's the 6 string version.


----------



## ofu

I have a question. fellow blackwinterians, since there are few of you that use both the BWs and 6505. I recently bought a new 6505 head and paired it with 4x12 V30s cab and at first the sound was really mushy and not really defined, and I don't mean just bassy, more like too saturated and with too much gain. I can straighten the sound only with the tone correction knobs below 5, in order to tame the amp. Tried with several other guitars with Distortions and EMGs in them and they don't seem to have the same response. It's like the BWs push too much across the whole spectrum, not just lows or mids, or highs.

So, do you have any tips for pairing them with the 6505 and the V30s? What are your amp settings? My guitar is 6 strings, all mahogany, 25.5 scale, ebony fretboard, 1 vol and 1 tone, 500 kOhm. I have similar results with the same cab and and my Marshall Valvestate 8100 and a Randall RG1503, but not through an OD pedal and JCM800. I'll probably get a TS or Maxon OD and EQ and fiddle a bit more with the sound. Needless to say, when I nail the settings, the sound is crushing. Just thought maybe I can get a bit of advice on how to set the amp properly.


----------



## KailM

@ Ofu:

I run a 6505 too. I don't know if you've listened to my clips which are sprinkled throughout this thread, but I'll post a couple below to give you a reference. I pretty much use the same settings all the time for my standard 6505 death metal/black metal tone unless I'm fiddling with my HM-2 which requires some alternate adjustments.

Anyway, in the clips I'm going to share, I'm using a mahogany LTD Explorer copy with the BW set. I have a 412 cab loaded with Eminence Governors (real similar to V30s) and Swamp Thangs. Most often in my recordings, I just mic one of the Governors.

First off, with the regular 6505 especially (not as much with the 6505+), you need to boost it with an OD pedal. Pretty much any OD will do -- just set the level to max and the gain all the way off. Tone somewhere in the middle. I run an MXR Custom Modified Badass OD, with the 100hz knob set to cut just a hair MORE bass in front of the amp when using my Black Winter guitar.

Amp settings are as follows: Bass 6.5-7, Mids 6, Highs 5.5-6 Resonance 6.5, Presence 5. Preamp gain: IMPORTANT: 3 to 3.2 out of 10. Lead channel; don't know if I mentioned that. You don't need any more than the "low 3s" on gain when you're boosting it. The tone becomes fully-saturated at that point, and pushing the gain beyond that just over-saturates the tone and makes it muddy. And I like a very saturated tone, so that's saying something.

But also, my sound is also heavily dependent on my MXR 10-band EQ in the effects loop. Firstly, I set the 16khz slider to -6db, which takes care of all of the fizz. Next, I boost the 2khz slider a bit because that brings out the grind of the amp a bit more and helps cut through the mix. I run my 1khz slider slightly boosted but not quite as much as 2khz as well. I cut the 500hz slider by -6db. IMO, the amp has a bit too much in that region and it doesn't really help the sound in any way. Too much in that area just gives the tone this "vowelly" cocked-wah sound. Going further down, I set the 250hz slider to "0" -- neither cut nor boosted. At 125 hz, I boost between 3db and 6db. That may sound like a lot, but I already cut quite a bit of bass going into the preamp with my OD pedal. Adding it back in with the EQ pedal brings out a massive "thump" without it being muddy whatsoever. The sliders below that are in the sub-bass range and as long as they're at 0 or below you're good.

Anyhow, those settings provide a massive, yet focused tone that responds well to a lot of different playing styles. It is not really a modern metal tone per se -- it has a healthy amount of bass but is still tight enough for very fast palm-muted riffing and pretty much any old-school death metal, black metal, and thrash. My favorite album tones come from the mid-90s through the early 2000s. I'm not a real fan of this new approach to metal tone where the guitar is made to sound like a duck with tourette syndrome. 

Anyway, here's some recordings of the tones I'm getting:

https://soundcloud.com/kailm-1/6505a 
https://soundcloud.com/kailm-1/the-gathering-of-hostsfist-of-the-heavens


----------



## chassless

Ofu, have you tried fiddling with the pickup height?


----------



## ofu

^ Changing the pickup height was the first thing I did, lowered them both a tad. Strange is, when using some VSTs at home, I've never really experienced such difficulties with finding the right tone, both PUs sound really heavy and articulated.

^^ Thanks, KailM. I checked your samples earlier, great tunes there, nailed the Entombed tone, and really thank you for being helpful. Seems like fairly ordinary settings for the 6505, will try boosting it with an old EHX OD until I can get a Maxon 808X and an EQ. I am just coming from a band practice and we tried some recording mic positions etc. and using the preamp signal with some IRs directly into the DAW delivers the beef.

Sorry for derailing the topic into amp settings territory, guys.


----------



## PunkBillCarson

KailM is pretty much the BW/6505 authority. I listened to him about a few things and now I have some of the best tone I've ever had. Black Winters through the 6505/6505+'s is IMO one of the greatest metal tones, period.


----------



## feraledge

My current rack is this (all sixers in Drop C): 
Alder body, bolt on maple neck: Nazgul bridge
Alder body, maple neck thru: SD Custom bridge (based on Nazgul with BW influences and a little of the JB low end)
Mahogany body, maple top, bolt on maple neck: Full Shred bridge
Ash body, bolt on maple neck: BW bridge
I use a 5153 50 watt which is in the same lineage and the only thing I adjust between them is the presence, typically no more than 20% between all four guitars. They sound different, but I barely touch my EQ knobs otherwise (1 low, 11 mids, 1 highs, gain around noon). I'm more likely to adjust pickup height than anything TBH.


----------



## chassless

^ lovely little family you got there! Since we're all suckers for pickup comparisons, do you have anything to share on that?


----------



## Ironbird666

ofu said:


> ^ Changing the pickup height was the first thing I did, lowered them both a tad. Strange is, when using some VSTs at home, I've never really experienced such difficulties with finding the right tone, both PUs sound really heavy and articulated.
> 
> ^^ Thanks, KailM. I checked your samples earlier, great tunes there, nailed the Entombed tone, and really thank you for being helpful. Seems like fairly ordinary settings for the 6505, will try boosting it with an old EHX OD until I can get a Maxon 808X and an EQ. I am just coming from a band practice and we tried some recording mic positions etc. and using the preamp signal with some IRs directly into the DAW delivers the beef.
> 
> Sorry for derailing the topic into amp settings territory, guys.



Are you adjusting pickup height with the VST's or the actual amps themselves? It will make a difference if you perform setups on the amps you paln on gigging with rather than the computer software. Cranked up, high power amps screaming through big cabs just react different. Also, follow KailM's advice, especially laying off the gain. BW's are pretty loud to begin with (I have them in 4 guitars currently) and cranking up an amp only making them slam the input harder. I'll also second the statement regarding lowering the pickups. If you lowered them, maybe lower them a bit more. You might be surprised...


----------



## NosralTserrof

Does anyone have any DI .wav files of these pups that they'd like to share?


----------



## episode666

on this track all guitars have Black winters... 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MjD7jZgv2o


----------



## ofu

Ironbird666 said:


> Are you adjusting pickup height with the VST's or the actual amps themselves? It will make a difference if you perform setups on the amps you paln on gigging with rather than the computer software. Cranked up, high power amps screaming through big cabs just react different. Also, follow KailM's advice, especially laying off the gain. BW's are pretty loud to begin with (I have them in 4 guitars currently) and cranking up an amp only making them slam the input harder. I'll also second the statement regarding lowering the pickups. If you lowered them, maybe lower them a bit more. You might be surprised...



Made adjustments with both and I completely agree - the BWs are really loud, first I thought they sound a bit muddy, so I've lowered them and raised the poles a bit. The last time I put the poles back in order to tame them an lowered them a bit more. Hopefully I'll record some samples that are not a complete disgrace and will share them if anyone is interested in how do they sound in hardcore/crust/grindcore/whatever context.

Thanks again for your input, guys.


----------



## elkoki

KailM said:


> @ Ofu:
> 
> I run a 6505 too. I don't know if you've listened to my clips which are sprinkled throughout this thread, but I'll post a couple below to give you a reference. I pretty much use the same settings all the time for my standard 6505 death metal/black metal tone unless I'm fiddling with my HM-2 which requires some alternate adjustments.
> 
> Anyway, in the clips I'm going to share, I'm using a mahogany LTD Explorer copy with the BW set. I have a 412 cab loaded with Eminence Governors (real similar to V30s) and Swamp Thangs. Most often in my recordings, I just mic one of the Governors.
> 
> First off, with the regular 6505 especially (not as much with the 6505+), you need to boost it with an OD pedal. Pretty much any OD will do -- just set the level to max and the gain all the way off. Tone somewhere in the middle. I run an MXR Custom Modified Badass OD, with the 100hz knob set to cut just a hair MORE bass in front of the amp when using my Black Winter guitar.
> 
> Amp settings are as follows: Bass 6.5-7, Mids 6, Highs 5.5-6 Resonance 6.5, Presence 5. Preamp gain: IMPORTANT: 3 to 3.2 out of 10. Lead channel; don't know if I mentioned that. You don't need any more than the "low 3s" on gain when you're boosting it. The tone becomes fully-saturated at that point, and pushing the gain beyond that just over-saturates the tone and makes it muddy. And I like a very saturated tone, so that's saying something.
> 
> But also, my sound is also heavily dependent on my MXR 10-band EQ in the effects loop. Firstly, I set the 16khz slider to -6db, which takes care of all of the fizz. Next, I boost the 2khz slider a bit because that brings out the grind of the amp a bit more and helps cut through the mix. I run my 1khz slider slightly boosted but not quite as much as 2khz as well. I cut the 500hz slider by -6db. IMO, the amp has a bit too much in that region and it doesn't really help the sound in any way. Too much in that area just gives the tone this "vowelly" cocked-wah sound. Going further down, I set the 250hz slider to "0" -- neither cut nor boosted. At 125 hz, I boost between 3db and 6db. That may sound like a lot, but I already cut quite a bit of bass going into the preamp with my OD pedal. Adding it back in with the EQ pedal brings out a massive "thump" without it being muddy whatsoever. The sliders below that are in the sub-bass range and as long as they're at 0 or below you're good.
> 
> Anyhow, those settings provide a massive, yet focused tone that responds well to a lot of different playing styles. It is not really a modern metal tone per se -- it has a healthy amount of bass but is still tight enough for very fast palm-muted riffing and pretty much any old-school death metal, black metal, and thrash. My favorite album tones come from the mid-90s through the early 2000s. I'm not a real fan of this new approach to metal tone where the guitar is made to sound like a duck with tourette syndrome.
> 
> Anyway, here's some recordings of the tones I'm getting:
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/kailm-1/6505a
> https://soundcloud.com/kailm-1/the-gathering-of-hostsfist-of-the-heavens



hey man so how do you record your clips? interface, mic , etc?


----------



## KailM

I mic up one of the speakers in my cab; either an Eminence Governor or Swamp Thang and the mic goes into a Presonus Audiobox USB, and then directly into my DAW (Studio One). I generally double or quad track, depending on the situation. For bass guitar I plug right into the Audiobox interface and use virtual amps and cabs, as I don't own an actual bass amp. But for guitars, and the tones I go for, nothing beats a real tube amp and cab pushing some air, close-mic'd with a quality microphone.


----------



## Meeotch

Can anyone compare the Alpha/Omega set to the BW's?


----------



## Dudley

Anyone with experience of Black Winters in alder super-strats tuned to Bb? I recently put a set of BW's in my ESP Horizon and love them so much that I'm considering replacing the EMG 81's in my M-II (maple neck-through, alder body, ebony fretboard, Floyd Rose) with them as well. 

The Horizon is in E standard with 10's and the M-II will be Bb with a low 64, so quite difficult to extrapolate from one to the other how it'll sound. Tight enough for Decapitated/Cannibal Corpse/Spawn Of Possession style riffing?


----------



## rebornself27

Would the black winters work for swamp.ash or should I go for the nazgul?


----------



## mnemonic

Can anyone compare the Black Winter to either the SH5 'Duncan Custom' and/or the JB? I have two seven strings and will likely be swapping pickups around and I'd like to consider the Black Winter for one of them. 

One is my Mayones Setius (all mahogany, maple top) which is the darker of the two, a bit scooped and tons of bottom end (currently loaded with SH5). The other is an old Schecter Avenger, mahogany body maple neck, with a 'Duncan Designed' in now, but I plan to put my spare JB-7 in it for comparison purposes. The Avenger is more balanced sounding, bit clearer, more high end and mids, less bottom end. 

I'm sure some of that tone comparison is down to pickups and some is down to the guitar itself.


----------



## Shask

mnemonic said:


> Can anyone compare the Black Winter to either the SH5 'Duncan Custom' and/or the JB? I have two seven strings and will likely be swapping pickups around and I'd like to consider the Black Winter for one of them.
> 
> One is my Mayones Setius (all mahogany, maple top) which is the darker of the two, a bit scooped and tons of bottom end (currently loaded with SH5). The other is an old Schecter Avenger, mahogany body maple neck, with a 'Duncan Designed' in now, but I plan to put my spare JB-7 in it for comparison purposes. The Avenger is more balanced sounding, bit clearer, more high end and mids, less bottom end.
> 
> I'm sure some of that tone comparison is down to pickups and some is down to the guitar itself.



The Custom has more chuggy bass. It has a "slower" low end that sounds great for chugging, but is not exactly tight. The BW bridge still has solid bass but not as much, and is tighter. The Custom has scooped lower mids with a lot of upper mids and treble/presence, so it has a lot of that metallic clank scraping sound. The BW Bridge has a more balanced high end where the treble is just there, but doesn't stand out. It has more of a mid peak at a lower frequency.. more like 700hz or something (guessing....). The BW has A LOT more output, so it is more compressed feeling. The Custom is crazy dynamic.

Overall, the Custom is kind of scooped with a chuggy low end, and crunchy high end. It is very dynamic. The BW Bridge is more balanced across the spectrum, with a small peak in the mid-mids. It is tighter and clearer overall, but doesn't sound sterile like a lot of modern "tight, clear" pickups. The BW Bridge overall kind of reminds me of a mix of the Invader and the Distortion, but without the extremes of either, all ran through a "tight, clarity filter".


----------



## mnemonic

Nice, really cool descriptions. Sounds like it could work well with my mayones as it could use more mids, I always have to turn up the mids on the amp when I use that guitar. 

But I may get one and put it in the Avenger as its my new guitar and is getting way more play.

I'll try out the jb7 first for comparison purposes. Also I'm curious how the Duncan designed hb7 compares to a real JB, as its supposedly a Korean-made JB according to the SD website. At the moment it sounds good but not great. It has kind of a 'dry' feeling like it just doesn't have enough saturation.


----------



## CaptainD00M

A little of a necro-bump but I wondered how the BW's would work for a sludge metal sound similar to the most recent High on Fire effort. I like my bass looser than about 90% of the younger people on this forum 

Also can anyone comment on what they sound like with Alinco's in them, I saw that JD27 mentioned putting A8's, has anyone done an A5 BW or even A2 - how does it sound etc?


----------



## youngthrasher9

Well, I wouldn't recommend mag swapping unless you just played aren't happy with the tone.

As far your uses, the main thing you need to think about is what amp you're using. The black winter has knack of playing into whatever sound your amp is designed around. If you tune low, and adjust the bass control on the amp to taste, you should have no issue getting a stoner/sludge tone. It would actually be very pleasant, the pickup has a really nice woody grunt to it.


----------



## takotakumi

What do you guys about putting a Black Winter on an Ash Ibanez RG?

I was going to do blaze custom or wait till a Warpig 7 pops out but I love the BW set on my 080. Dunno if the ash could make the BW sound a bit brighter or harsher hmm...


----------



## KailM

TBH, I think people really over analyze the impact of wood species on tone. It is a fantastic pickup and if you like it in one guitar, chances are you're going to like it in another one. I thought it was bright at first, but now I love the tone, and have Eq'd my rig to take advantage of the BW's strengths.

In other news (shameless hype here) I'm nearly finished with a savage new black metal track that features Black Winters mixed with a Nazgul. Those two together are absolutely unholy...


----------



## Blytheryn

KailM said:


> TBH, I think people really over analyze the impact of wood species on tone. It is a fantastic pickup and if you like it in one guitar, chances are you're going to like it in another one. I thought it was bright at first, but now I love the tone, and have Eq'd my rig to take advantage of the BW's strengths.
> 
> In other news (shameless hype here) I'm nearly finished with a savage new black metal track that features Black Winters mixed with a Nazgul. Those two together are absolutely unholy...



Please tell me there's some HM-2 on there. That's the unholy trinity of high gain guitar tone.


----------



## KailM

^^^Nah, no HM-2 this time. That's a gnarly combination, for sure, but not quite the right sound for black metal IMO. Awesome for death metal though. For this track, think Emperor meets Immortal meets Opeth.


----------



## chassless

Sounds intense!


----------



## Blytheryn

Looking forward to hearing it!


----------



## elkoki

Just ordered a set for 100 bucks. I'm excited to try them out ! Gonna try them out on my Schecter omen 6.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

just installed a black winter bridge in my swamp ash 8 string. they're super versatile from my preliminary tests so far.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

How does the BlackWinter compare to the EMG JH Bridge? Close?


----------



## JamminJAP

I just put a set in my Ibanez S1625FB...
I had to lower the pick up height a lot for the neck to not sound like its in the bridge position it was too bright and twangy. I used to just leave to tone knob all the way up... now that is a hair higher that middile.

tonight I will have to go to my amp and find some settings that can handle this output. These things are crazy!!

(I also have a couple rg's with Dimarzio's in them. a six string with D-Activators and a 7 w/ crunchlab bridge and Evo in the neck.)


----------



## aqa

I am debating to get a sh-5 custom or the BW instead the JB in ltd ec 401, 

The style is something like groove metal.

What do you think?


----------



## ZXIIIT

Here are some cleans with a Black Winter.


----------



## JamminJAP

Ok, had band practice last night, and they are sounding much better! My picking is much more relaxed since they are so sensitive. My leads cut through very nicely...and so do the mistakes! So I better get practicing, I have an extra show for this weekend.

Definitely liking these Black Winters a lot!


----------



## chassless

^ nice! What pickups did you have in it before? Stock?


----------



## KailM

Here's my latest track; main guitar tone is about 70% Black Winters and 30% Nazgul. I hope you like your music brutal...

https://soundcloud.com/kailm-1/black-epoch


----------



## JamminJAP

chassless said:


> ^ nice! What pickups did you have in it before? Stock?




I had the stock QMZ's in there and they really fit the guitar well, i was hesitant to change them. But glad I did. They sounded great this weekend. 

Oh, the guitar is a mahogany body with a Bubinga top.


----------



## PunkBillCarson

Oh my God, KailM... That was an unholy track. Is that your vocals?


----------



## KailM

PunkBillCarson said:


> Oh my God, KailM... That was an unholy track. Is that your vocals?


----------



## PunkBillCarson

Honestly and truly, I'd buy whatever you put out and I would buy it on disc.


----------



## KailM

^^Thanks man, I appreciate the kind words. I will have a full album out eventually. Hopefully by this fall. It has only taken 4 years, lol. Now that I've got my vocals somewhat acceptable (maybe), I think I'll add lyrics and vocals to some of my older tracks -- as I think they are necessary to make for a real album. I have one more heavy track to record, and another softer/more ambient one and it'll be done. The cool thing is I keep coming up with awesome riffs, but there's no way I can include them all on my first album (it's pushing past an hour at the moment). So there will have to be a second album too, hehe.


----------



## takotakumi

KailM said:


> Here's my latest track; main guitar tone is about 70% Black Winters and 30% Nazgul. I hope you like your music brutal...
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/kailm-1/black-epoch



I loved those monstrous chuggs you did right after the clean intro. 
Great song 
This was with an actual 6505 or modeler ?


----------



## KnightBrolaire

I finally understand the hype behind the black winter. It's an awesome pickup. 
here's some clips I made of the 8 string version: https://soundcloud.com/skwisgaar-sandervaal/sets/seymour-duncan-black-winter-8-string-bridge-pickup


----------



## KailM

takotakumi said:


> I loved those monstrous chuggs you did right after the clean intro.
> Great song
> This was with an actual 6505 or modeler ?



Thanks man -- I aim to please!

I actually used two 6505s for all the gain sounds -- I started making the song last fall with my 6505+ 112 head, which I modded to have original 5150 specs on the lead channel. Then, that amp broke down and I couldn't fix it (still going to fix it at some point). In the meantime, I bought another 6505 -- the 120 watt head version, which is also the same as an original 5150. As I finished the song, I ended up with about a 50/50 blend of both amps, and you really can't tell a difference between them on a recording; it's hard to tell in person as well. For cleans I used my Peavey Classic 30 head (and my guitar with Black Winters). And of course, there was a classical guitar in there too.

The only modeling I used was with my bass guitar; as I don't own a bass amp.

I've got another song that'll be done in a few days -- another grim and frostbitten black metal tune  But this time it's a cover of one of my favorite Blut Aus Nord songs. This one will be 50% Black Winter and 50% Nazgul on heavy parts.


----------



## chopeth

KailM said:


> Thanks man -- I aim to please!
> 
> I actually used two 6505s for all the gain sounds -- I started making the song last fall with my 6505+ 112 head, which I modded to have original 5150 specs on the lead channel. Then, that amp broke down and I couldn't fix it (still going to fix it at some point). In the meantime, I bought another 6505 -- the 120 watt head version, which is also the same as an original 5150. As I finished the song, I ended up with about a 50/50 blend of both amps, and you really can't tell a difference between them on a recording; it's hard to tell in person as well. For cleans I used my Peavey Classic 30 head (and my guitar with Black Winters). And of course, there was a classical guitar in there too.
> 
> The only modeling I used was with my bass guitar; as I don't own a bass amp.
> 
> I've got another song that'll be done in a few days -- another grim and frostbitten black metal tune  But this time it's a cover of one of my favorite Blut Aus Nord songs. This one will be 50% Black Winter and 50% Nazgul on heavy parts.



Nice sound, love my 'winters too. BAN is also one of my favourite bands in BM, I want to listen to your version. I also cover a song I love, Discipline Libration or something like that.


----------



## KailM

Here's another track I just finished -- Blut Aus Nord cover this time, as promised.
I ended up using mostly my Black Winter-equipped guitar for this one, but there is some Nazgul mixed in on the REALLY heavy parts as well as some of the mellower distorted parts toward the end. Cleans are provided by the beautiful Black Winter neck pickup. Enjoy!

https://soundcloud.com/kailm-1/on-the-way-to-vigrid


----------



## J_Mac

Had to let my BW equipped guitar go 

Anyone got a spare set of BWs to sell?


----------



## Blytheryn

J_Mac said:


> Had to let my BW equipped guitar go
> 
> Anyone got a spare set of BWs to sell?



Should have taken them out first!


----------



## takotakumi

KailM said:


> Here's another track I just finished -- Blut Aus Nord cover this time, as promised.
> I ended up using mostly my Black Winter-equipped guitar for this one, but there is some Nazgul mixed in on the REALLY heavy parts as well as some of the mellower distorted parts toward the end. Cleans are provided by the beautiful Black Winter neck pickup. Enjoy!
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/kailm-1/on-the-way-to-vigrid



Another sick one

I've lately been looping Black Epoch and Ur Avgrunden Han Stiger like a madman haha


----------



## KailM

takotakumi said:


> Another sick one
> 
> I've lately been looping Black Epoch and Ur Avgrunden Han Stiger like a madman haha





I'm gonna do vocals on Ur Avgrunden and some of my other songs at some point in the next few months. Gotta write lyrics first -- but I already know the general ideas. Glad you like them!


----------



## elkoki

J_Mac said:


> Had to let my BW equipped guitar go
> 
> Anyone got a spare set of BWs to sell?




How much you willing to pay? lol


----------



## elkoki

I installed some black winters in my Schecter. and I find it a bit dark, but not bad at all. Perfect for brutally dark metal. Not sure if it's as versatile as people say though.


----------



## KailM

^^Ineresting. You sure you've got them wired properly/have decent tone/volume pots? Because most people consider them pretty bright even in a big hunk of mahogany (myself included).


----------



## elkoki

KailM said:


> ^^Ineresting. You sure you've got them wired properly/have decent tone/volume pots? Because most people consider them pretty bright even in a big hunk of mahogany (myself included).




I meant more like dark as in... like evil sounding?. They sound dark and nasty in a good way for metal. Just not as versatile as lets say Illuminators, which I have in another guitar..

I don't find them too bright though. I need to spend a bit more time with the guitar and see what I can get out of it. Maybe tweak the height and amp settings.


----------



## Riker_Maneuver

Just bought a BW 6 set to replace some EMGs. Can anyone tell me if the packaging graphics are intentionally low-fi and pixelated? The pickups look legit, but I bought them through eBay from a seemingly legit seller with 1000s of positive reviews. I haven't heard of fake pick-ups, but I suppose it's possible.


----------



## JamminJAP

Is the Seymour Duncan name on the bottom of the pickups? Did each box include the the sticker? (SD logo sitting on top of a pile of skulls) The pick ups are much heavier (weight wise) than generic pick ups.
I know cover is black and white, I do remember it looked cheap too. I'll double check when I stop by the studio later today.


----------



## Riker_Maneuver

JamminJAP said:


> Is the Seymour Duncan name on the bottom of the pickups? Did each box include the the sticker? (SD logo sitting on top of a pile of skulls) The pick ups are much heavier (weight wise) than generic pick ups.
> I know cover is black and white, I do remember it looked cheap too. I'll double check when I stop by the studio later today.



The art looks the same as what I've seen on the web, but I can't tell if it's the same quality. The pickups themselves have the manufacturing date sticker on the bottom and SD imprint. I can understand the low fi nature of the artwork if they were going for a blackmetal cassette art type vibe. Just curious if it's part of the aesthetic or it's something more shady.


----------



## Blytheryn

Riker_Maneuver said:


> The art looks the same as what I've seen on the web, but I can't tell if it's the same quality. The pickups themselves have the manufacturing date sticker on the bottom and SD imprint. I can understand the low fi nature of the artwork if they were going for a blackmetal cassette art type vibe. Just curious if it's part of the aesthetic or it's something more shady.




I just checked the box my black winters came in... the pic of the skulls with the SD logo is sharp enough, but the rear photo of the soldiers in Stalingrad (I think that's the origin photo) is pretty pixelated.


----------



## Riker_Maneuver

They have the sticker, wiring guide, and screws. The backside of the package isn't the soldiers but a forest with the logo. I think the packaging is just supposed to look this way. Thanks for all the help guys. Paranoia alleviated. Now just to figure out how to add a bridge ground to the circuit.


----------



## ZombieLloyd

How is it in Poplar? I'm waiting on one that should arrive on Tuesday and wondered if anyone knew how it sounded in a poplar bodied guitar.


----------



## ZombieLloyd

I got my Black Winter today. I love it. It's a little darker than my original pickup, however there's more clarity, note definition and I'm enjoying the tight bass response.


----------



## takotakumi

Hey guys, is there any other pickup from another brand that sounds really close to the BW?

I kind of regret not getting that BW 7 for my RG haha...

I currently have a Super Distortion which sounds goods but everytime I use my other guitar with the BW I enjoy the sound so much more haha particularly that bass response.

Any recommendations? If not I guess I'll go with the BW again


----------



## KailM

takotakumi said:


> Hey guys, is there any other pickup from another brand that sounds really close to the BW?
> 
> I kind of regret not getting that BW 7 for my RG haha...
> 
> I currently have a Super Distortion which sounds goods but everytime I use my other guitar with the BW I enjoy the sound so much more haha particularly that bass response.
> 
> Any recommendations? If not I guess I'll go with the BW again



You know there's only one solution to this problem, right?


----------



## Ji Sung

Does anyone have any entirely clean clips of these? Unlike most people here, I'm not even remotely interested in the distorted tone. I tune pretty low (Ab), but I use almost exclusively clean tones (think Owane or The Plagued Raven).


----------



## Blytheryn

Ji Sung said:


> Does anyone have any entirely clean clips of these? Unlike most people here, I'm not even remotely interested in the distorted tone. I tune pretty low (Ab), but I use almost exclusively clean tones (think Owane or The Plagued Raven).





I believe it's been posted somewhere back in the thread somewhere, but here you go!


----------



## KailM

Here's a track I did a while ago that is entirely clean (though a lot of reverb and delay was used). If I remember right, I tracked it using the BW bridge and neck combined on the main riffs/arpeggios, and maybe just the neck on the "leadier" stuff. Amp was my Peavey Classic 30.

https://soundcloud.com/kailm-1/a-sky-blackened-by-carrion-birds-new-version


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Here's my clip of the 8 string version's cleans: https://soundcloud.com/skwisgaar-sandervaal/bw-cleans


----------



## ZombieLloyd

I made a video of one of my songs using my Seymour Duncan Black Winter.


----------



## KailM

Here's some more Black Winter love. Just a couple minutes of a song I'm close to finishing. Actually, I quad tracked the rhythm guitars -- two tracks of SD Nazgul bridge pickup on the left, and two tracks of Black Winter bridge on the right. The first lead playing is with the Nazgul, the second bit of lead playing is the Black Winter bridge pickup. Together, I think they sound amazing -- but the song would probably sound awesome with 100% of one or the other as well. Enjoy!

https://soundcloud.com/kailm-1/spiritual-warfare-mixtest


----------



## Metalman X

I've been loving the black Winters in pretty much anything I put them into. They work so well with so many guitars (unlike my Invaders... love those too. But their magic in the right guitar, and poo in another. They seem to like basswood).

My main ax for awhile now has been my BC Rich Ironbird pro. single pickup, single knob killing machine! I put an AHB-3 EMTY in it for a minute, but after a couple weeks of that, went back to the Black Winter. Don't get me wrong... the EMTY was excellent (such a killer active, that. Especially if your tuned super low), but their really is something truly sinister with the Black Winter/Ironbird combo. Given' it's intended purpose, this really shouldn't be surprising. 

Well fook it.... enough chatter. Here it is in a mix!
https://soundcloud.com/pottersfieldmetal/apocalypse-now-what

Direct in with my AxeFX Ultra.... Recto Red left side, super-tweaked 5150 on the right. Mix of Ownhammer OS Recto cab IR's and stock IR's. Might re-amp with a couple other presets, see what I get. I dig the Deizel and the Uber amps as well in my Axe. Feel free to make suggestions


----------



## Blytheryn

Metalman X said:


> I've been loving the black Winters in pretty much anything I put them into. They work so well with so many guitars (unlike my Invaders... love those too. But their magic in the right guitar, and poo in another. They seem to like basswood).
> 
> My main ax for awhile now has been my BC Rich Ironbird pro. single pickup, single knob killing machine! I put an AHB-3 EMTY in it for a minute, but after a couple weeks of that, went back to the Black Winter. Don't get me wrong... the EMTY was excellent (such a killer active, that. Especially if your tuned super low), but their really is something truly sinister with the Black Winter/Ironbird combo. Given' it's intended purpose, this really shouldn't be surprising.
> 
> Well fook it.... enough chatter. Here it is in a mix!
> https://soundcloud.com/pottersfieldmetal/apocalypse-now-what
> 
> Direct in with my AxeFX Ultra.... Recto Red left side, super-tweaked 5150 on the right. Mix of Ownhammer OS Recto cab IR's and stock IR's. Might re-amp with a couple other presets, see what I get. I dig the Deizel and the Uber amps as well in my Axe. Feel free to make suggestions



This sounds so mean... You and KailM really manage to show off the BW's in an amazing way. I remember a few years back when the only videos of these were OLA's and Merrow's as well as some dumb kid playing djent with them. This stuff here is what they were truly ment to do. Sick.

On a side note, my new Formula needs the 'Winter treatment. What color BW's should I go for? Black? White? Morbid Angel Slime Green? Boo-bucker orange?


----------



## Metalman X

Blytheryn said:


> This sounds so mean... You and KailM really manage to show off the BW's in an amazing way. I remember a few years back when the only videos of these were OLA's and Merrow's as well as some dumb kid playing djent with them. This stuff here is what they were truly ment to do. Sick.
> 
> On a side note, my new Formula needs the 'Winter treatment. What color BW's should I go for? Black? White? Morbid Angel Slime Green? Boo-bucker orange?




Thanx for listenin' duder! 

I agree with you, these pickups just sound so savage for this kinda' old-school, more grindy metal. Clear, but still got some girth and grease in that tone. which is my jam... I don't feel like the more modern djent type tones suit this material as well.... too dry, crisp, and a bit TOO tight for my tastes. But again.... these pickups just have that mean, angry, middle-finger-wrapped-around-a-magnet tone I love.

I remixed this track earlier using a combo of the Deizel VH4 and Bogner Uberschall models (I should mention, almost all my main presets boost these amps with the Metal Zone model... which makes an amazing vicious boost with the gain off, Level up 70-80%. but play with the filters! dialing back its high end responds kills the shrillness and most of the nasal quality. and opening up the low end a bit lets to get more thickness but without getting boomy... around 300hz is the rough sweet-spot IME)

https://soundcloud.com/pottersfieldmetal/apocalypse-now-what-das-uber-mix

Oh... and for that guitar you posted.... basic blcack is gonne be the sleekest for it in that finish. While the other colors are interesting, I feel like you need some matching knobs, and possibly vinyl stickers or faux binding with the color matching the pickup to really bring that together. But barring all that, red would be my second choice if leaving all other aesthetics as they are.


----------



## feraledge

KailM said:


> Here's some more Black Winter love. Just a couple minutes of a song I'm close to finishing. Actually, I quad tracked the rhythm guitars -- two tracks of SD Nazgul bridge pickup on the left, and two tracks of Black Winter bridge on the right. The first lead playing is with the Nazgul, the second bit of lead playing is the Black Winter bridge pickup. Together, I think they sound amazing -- but the song would probably sound awesome with 100% of one or the other as well. Enjoy!
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/kailm-1/spiritual-warfare-mixtest



Dude, this is sick! Solid work!


----------



## Blytheryn

Metalman X said:


> Thanx for listenin' duder!
> 
> I agree with you, these pickups just sound so savage for this kinda' old-school, more grindy metal. Clear, but still got some girth and grease in that tone. which is my jam... I don't feel like the more modern djent type tones suit this material as well.... too dry, crisp, and a bit TOO tight for my tastes. But again.... these pickups just have that mean, angry, middle-finger-wrapped-around-a-magnet tone I love.
> 
> I remixed this track earlier using a combo of the Deizel VH4 and Bogner Uberschall models (I should mention, almost all my main presets boost these amps with the Metal Zone model... which makes an amazing vicious boost with the gain off, Level up 70-80%. but play with the filters! dialing back its high end responds kills the shrillness and most of the nasal quality. and opening up the low end a bit lets to get more thickness but without getting boomy... around 300hz is the rough sweet-spot IME)
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/pottersfieldmetal/apocalypse-now-what-das-uber-mix
> 
> Oh... and for that guitar you posted.... basic blcack is gonne be the sleekest for it in that finish. While the other colors are interesting, I feel like you need some matching knobs, and possibly vinyl stickers or faux binding with the color matching the pickup to really bring that together. But barring all that, red would be my second choice if leaving all other aesthetics as they are.



Sounds great man. Yeah, it's got a black pearl binding. Another guy on here put white ones on his, so that got me thinking. Eventually the hardware is going to swapped to all black, and who knows what's going to happen to the knobs.


----------



## KailM

Metalman X said:


> I've been loving the black Winters in pretty much anything I put them into. They work so well with so many guitars (unlike my Invaders... love those too. But their magic in the right guitar, and poo in another. They seem to like basswood).
> 
> My main ax for awhile now has been my BC Rich Ironbird pro. single pickup, single knob killing machine! I put an AHB-3 EMTY in it for a minute, but after a couple weeks of that, went back to the Black Winter. Don't get me wrong... the EMTY was excellent (such a killer active, that. Especially if your tuned super low), but their really is something truly sinister with the Black Winter/Ironbird combo. Given' it's intended purpose, this really shouldn't be surprising.
> 
> Well fook it.... enough chatter. Here it is in a mix!
> https://soundcloud.com/pottersfieldmetal/apocalypse-now-what
> 
> Direct in with my AxeFX Ultra.... Recto Red left side, super-tweaked 5150 on the right. Mix of Ownhammer OS Recto cab IR's and stock IR's. Might re-amp with a couple other presets, see what I get. I dig the Deizel and the Uber amps as well in my Axe. Feel free to make suggestions



Nice track man! I think I actually prefer the Recto/5150 version over the Uberschall modeling.


----------



## KailM

Blytheryn said:


> This sounds so mean... You and KailM really manage to show off the BW's in an amazing way. I remember a few years back when the only videos of these were OLA's and Merrow's as well as some dumb kid playing djent with them. This stuff here is what they were truly ment to do. Sick.
> 
> On a side note, my new Formula needs the 'Winter treatment. What color BW's should I go for? Black? White? Morbid Angel Slime Green? Boo-bucker orange?



Sick guitar Blytheryn! If it was me I'd go with the standard black BW set.

Also, thanks for the compliments-- I really like my tone too! Honestly, I think this whole "modern" trend of everything being so TIGHT and high-passed and clinical has hurt guitar tone on the vast majority of modern releases in metal. I mean, the guitar is a midrange instrument, but some low-end is present. Removing it from the tone takes the balls out of everything, and then it must be totally made up for with the bass guitar.


----------



## Metalman X

KailM said:


> Sick guitar Blytheryn! If it was me I'd go with the standard black BW set.
> 
> Also, thanks for the compliments-- I really like my tone too! * Honestly, I think this whole "modern" trend of everything being so TIGHT and high-passed and clinical has hurt guitar tone on the vast majority of modern releases in metal. I mean, the guitar is a midrange instrument, but some low-end is present. Removing it from the tone takes the balls out of everything*, and then it must be totally made up for with the bass guitar.





100% agreed!

I've been setting my Low pass at around 95hz, give or take. Today I started experimenting with setting it more into the the 80's and I'm liking the results. As long as you keep some control in the low mids, which is where it gets boomy faster than anything, you can get some pretty good growl into the mix. sounds more organic, and well, friggin' heavy! I use some multi-band compression just compress a little bit in the low mids range..... keeps the palm mutes from crapping allover the mix, but retains the balls in the tone, as opposed to outright cutting those frequencies with an EQ

Going much lower though, doesnt really do much though. The present, "usable" low end sort of runs out somewhere in the 80-90hz range, for me anyway. I tune to C# using 13-56 D'addaios'.... lower tunings will likely be different. 

But like you said... it doesnt need to be so tight, or precise. some classic Celtic Frost will always sound heavy and amazing in any era. 'Morbid Tales' is such a monument of an album, and it is anything BUT tight and precise! nd it just has so much more vibe and attitude because of it. Tuning every couple of takes was definitely an afterthought, and also I hear Tom even played alot of his rhythm parts with the neck pickup! Not sure how true that last part is... but it definitely sounds about right.


----------



## PunkBillCarson

Agreed with above. I cannot stand this overly anal tight bull..... There's a difference between flubby and bass and these days, it's like they think any amount of bass in your tone is flubby.


----------



## totalnewb

So, I have a Caparison Tat II dark night, it has a Alder Body and Maple neck, i was thinking of putting a set of BW's in that, how do you think it would sound?

I also have a Capa 20th with a Mahogony/Maple/Mahogony and a hard maple neck, but it has a single coil in the neck position. Not sure what I should put in the neck?


----------



## Blytheryn

totalnewb said:


> So, I have a Caparison Tat II dark night, it has a Alder Body and Maple neck, i was thinking of putting a set of BW's in that, how do you think it would sound?
> 
> I also have a Capa 20th with a Mahogony/Maple/Mahogony and a hard maple neck, but it has a single coil in the neck position. Not sure what I should put in the neck?



It's going to sound mean as hell.

Also, anyone here have some BW's they want to sell? I'm trying to snag a pair, and don't want to have to resort to Ebay, especially being in Europe. Thomann and the others overcharge like hell.


----------



## totalnewb

Blytheryn said:


> It's going to sound mean as hell.
> 
> Also, anyone here have some BW's they want to sell? I'm trying to snag a pair, and don't want to have to resort to Ebay, especially being in Europe. Thomann and the others overcharge like hell.



Which one?


----------



## Blytheryn

totalnewb said:


> Which one?


Both easily, but a little extra in mahogany!


----------



## totalnewb

Blytheryn said:


> Both easily, but a little extra in mahogany!


What are some good neck metal pickups that are single's that would go well in a Mahogony, maple mahogony guitar. The horus.


----------



## Blytheryn

totalnewb said:


> What are some good neck metal pickups that are single's that would go well in a Mahogony, maple mahogony guitar. The horus.


Honestly no idea, if I were you and I was going to rock some BW's and had a single coil in the neck, I'd contact SD to make me a stacked BW neck bucker.


----------



## ZombieLloyd

I made another video. I won't post any more after this one because I don't want to spam the thread.


----------



## chassless

^ why not? if it's relevant to the thread, just keep posting


----------



## ZombieLloyd

chassless said:


> ^ why not? if it's relevant to the thread, just keep posting



Well, I don't want it to seem like I'm just using the forum to boost my Youtube views. Especially since I really like this forum, I don't want to do something that will annoy the other members here.


----------



## Blytheryn

ZombieLloyd said:


> Well, I don't want it to seem like I'm just using the forum to boost my Youtube views. Especially since I really like this forum, I don't want to do something that will annoy the other members here.


I honestly don't think anyone here has thought that far... As long as what you're posting is of relevance to the the topic of the thread and has value, then post away. More Black Winter magic, the better IMO. You don't see us telling KailM to go away


----------



## ZombieLloyd

Blytheryn said:


> I honestly don't think anyone here has thought that far... As long as what you're posting is of relevance to the the topic of the thread and has value, then post away. More Black Winter magic, the better IMO. You don't see us telling KailM to go away



Haha, good point. I really do love this pickup. I'm going to get a Washburn Solar V and one of the blue Solar super strats this year, I'm considering getting Black Winters to put in them at the same time.


----------



## Blytheryn

Way to go dude!

I've got one of these coming, bridge first. The neck one is back in stock in June.


----------



## ZombieLloyd

Blytheryn said:


> Way to go dude!
> 
> I've got one of these coming, bridge first. The neck one is back in stock in June.



That looks cool. I'd totally put that in a trans green guitar, or if I was going for a radioactive black/green custom guitar build or something like that. I wish I could order a custom pickup, SD won't ship to the EU though so if I want a custom pickup I pretty much have to go Bare Knuckle. Not that that's a problem, but they don't make Black Winters haha.


----------



## Blytheryn

ZombieLloyd said:


> s cool. I'd totally put that in a trans green guitar, or if I was going for a radioactive black/green custom guitar build or something like that. I wish I could order a custom pickup, SD won't ship to the EU though so if I want a custom pickup I pretty much have to go Bare Knuckle. Not that that's a problem, but they don't make Black Winters haha.


 Putting them into my black ESP Formula. Bring back those swampy Morbid Angel vibes. You can order custom colored Black Winters on Ebay. Lots of cool stuff there.


----------



## ZombieLloyd

Blytheryn said:


> Putting them into my black ESP Formula. Bring back those swampy Morbid Angel vibes. You can order custom colored Black Winters on Ebay. Lots of cool stuff there.



Honestly, the plain black model is fine, the only thing I'd want changed is like Bare Knuckle's burnt chrome covers. That'd be awesome on the trans blue Solar I plan on getting. The problem is, it's £1750-ish total for both guitars and then I have to buy strings for both to get them the way I like for recording my music and stuff. I've just been thinking of making a comparison video for the Solar pickups vs the Black Winters. I've heard that Black Winters are amazing in mahogany, which the V is all mahogany so I'm really looking forward to that. The V I currently use in my videos is made of poplar with a maple neck and the BW sounds great in it, I haven't gotten around to getting a BW neck yet because I still really like the J50-N that's in there right now. Actually, I've noticed that the BW bridge pickup doesn't have the harsh high end of my original J90C so lead tones and cleans sound at least as smooth as my neck pickup. I hope your pickup change goes as well as mine has.


----------



## PunkBillCarson

Black Winters in mahogany are the meanest thing you'll ever hear.


----------



## KailM

Blytheryn said:


> I honestly don't think anyone here has thought that far... As long as what you're posting is of relevance to the the topic of the thread and has value, then post away. More Black Winter magic, the better IMO. You don't see us telling KailM to go away



Touche! I have been spamming this thread a lot though, haha.


----------



## KailM

PunkBillCarson said:


> Black Winters in mahogany are the meanest thing you'll ever hear.



Agreed X 1000.


----------



## chassless

KailM said:


> Touche! I have been spamming this thread a lot though, haha.



speaking for myself, and at least a few others in the thread, we're enjoying your clips


----------



## Blytheryn

chassless said:


> speaking for myself, and at least a few others in the thread, we're enjoying your clips


Definitely. Love that this thread has turned into a little bastion for the extreme. Keep it up. Hopefully I'll be able to contribute some more soon when I get myself a new interface and my new pups. Black Winter Legions!


----------



## totalnewb

Would the hotrails be a good metal neck pickup to put in a 20th anniversary capa horus with BW's? And a set of BW's neck/bridge would go good in an alder guitar?


----------



## Blytheryn

totalnewb said:


> Would the hotrails be a good metal neck pickup to put in a 20th anniversary capa horus with BW's? And a set of BW's neck/bridge would go good in an alder guitar?



Honestly, these pickups take very well to most woods. I had them in a mahogany Eclipse, as well as an Alder Horizon, and while the character of the tone was slightly different in each, they all sounded mean as hell.


----------



## Ironbird666

Blytheryn said:


> Honestly, these pickups take very well to most woods. I had them in a mahogany Eclipse, as well as an Alder Horizon, and while the character of the tone was slightly different in each, they all sounded mean as hell.



I agree also. I have them in Mahogany, basswood, and a maple/alder neckthrough and the BW sounds killer in every wood combo I've tried. The Hotrail should be fine as well. I typically pair my BW bridge with a 59 neck since I'm not a huge fan of hot neck pickups. My experience with pairing the BW bridge with other neck pickups has been pretty good so far; give the Hotrail/BW combo a shot and tell us about it!


----------



## Adam Mizraim List

Hi all. Is there any guitars with BW except KM-6?


----------



## gunch

How does this compare to a warpig or titan


----------



## Blytheryn

Adam Mizraim List said:


> Hi all. Is there any guitars with BW except KM-6?


Yours, you just don't know it yet.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

silverabyss said:


> How does this compare to a warpig or titan


The black winter: grindier, mean sounding, good clarity, though less than the warpig or titan ime. nice cleans. excels at metal styles though also works for hard rock/blues/jazzy stuff.
titan: superrrrr tight, with a comparable amount of bass/mids and a warmer high end, great for thrash/prog. Not a super high output pickup like the black winter/warpig and needs a good boost to really sound mean. good cleans. great for a ton of genres like thrash/ leviathan era-mastodon/djent/prog/80's hair metal/
warpig: ceramic version roars under high gain, has more bass/treble than mids, cleans up well actually. Easily the most savage pickup out of the bunch. Not as clear as the titan but clearer than the black winter. Has a somewhat darker sound than the titan or black winter. great for death metal/doom/sludge/proggy/djenty stuff/jazz/ if need be.


----------



## youngthrasher9

Blytheryn said:


> Yours, you just don't know it yet.


I chuckled at this one.


----------



## Blytheryn

Crappy picture, but this is what's currently going down with my ESP Formula. Neon green neck Winter, Black Floyd Rose, hardware and knobs incoming. Tuners will be up next.


----------



## ZombieLloyd

I made a new video. I won't be able to make any more for a while because I'll be on holiday/vacation and then my girlfriend is visiting me for a week or so. Also, the pickup looks great in that guitar Blytheryn. Oh, and the guitars are recorded with the ENGL E646 plugin.


----------



## Blytheryn

Contemplating doing a SD Custom Black Winter bridge. A8's instead of ceramics, slightly less compression and a little more grind. Basically JD's idea. Someone has to do this for science after all!?


----------



## ZombieLloyd

Blytheryn said:


> Contemplating doing a SD Custom Black Winter bridge. A8's instead of ceramics, slightly less compression and a little more grind. Basically JD's idea. Someone has to do this for science after all!?



Do it! Then upload a demo on YouTube and link it here.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Blytheryn said:


> Contemplating doing a SD Custom Black Winter bridge. A8's instead of ceramics, slightly less compression and a little more grind. Basically JD's idea. Someone has to do this for science after all!?


or you could just buy the magnet and swap it yourself. it's not hard, plus it'll save you some cash.


----------



## Blytheryn

KnightBrolaire said:


> or you could just buy the magnet and swap it yourself. it's not hard, plus it'll save you some cash.



No way? I'll do some research on it after work. If it will save me some cash then I don't see why not.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Blytheryn said:


> No way? I'll do some research on it after work. If it will save me some cash then I don't see why not.


yeah I did it to a pegasus and it sounds wayy better (granted I went from an alnico v to a ceramic mag). It's now the poor man's omega  Just unwrap the pickup tape, remove any screws holding the bobbins to the baseplate, pop out the magnet, swap in the other one, put everything back together, and then melt the wax back on with a hair dryer. Let the pickup sit for a few days so that the screws can get remagnetized.


----------



## ZombieLloyd

Blytheryn said:


> No way? I'll do some research on it after work. If it will save me some cash then I don't see why not.



The Seymour Duncan blog had a series on pickup customisation. http://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/t...ng-with-pickups-102-the-humbucker-magnet-swap


----------



## Garfish

I am really considering throwing a pair of black winters in my Orville by Gibson LP custom. The thing is, its a lightweight and bright les paul compared to my other LP's. How would the black winter do in a LP like that? based on the EQ chart, it is really mid heavy. I've also been thinking about putting in a SH-5 in the bridge instead, as it is more mid and highs.


----------



## ZombieLloyd

Garfish said:


> I am really considering throwing a pair of black winters in my Orville by Gibson LP custom. The thing is, its a lightweight and bright les paul compared to my other LP's. How would the black winter do in a LP like that? based on the EQ chart, it is really mid heavy. I've also been thinking about putting in a SH-5 in the bridge instead, as it is more mid and highs.



My guitar's lightweight and bright. I say go for it, I put a Black Winter in it and I love it more everytime I use it. I came back from holiday/vacation today and just started playing my guitar for the first time in almost 2 weeks. DAMN is it good. It's definitely my perfect pickup. Can't wait to hear what the Engl E530 sounds like with this pickup too.


----------



## Zoobiedood

The Black Winters absolutely play nice in bright guitars. I've used them in all maple bodies, and those are about as bright as can be.


----------



## Blytheryn

Progress on the Formula. Hopefully my tech will have time to solder it all up by early next week.


----------



## Blytheryn

One thing I just realized as well. He's demoing a bunch of amps with a KM-6, ergo with Black Winters... This might answer some questions


----------



## metaljohn

I wish it didn't cost so much more to order them with pickup covers. I want to put a set with black pickup covers into my USA BC Rich Warlock.


----------



## ZombieLloyd

metaljohn said:


> I wish it didn't cost so much more to order them with pickup covers. I want to put a set with black pickup covers into my USA BC Rich Warlock.



Have you tried eBay? I've found some from the US that's roughly the same as the standard models in the UK. Minus the import costs, obviously.


----------



## Blytheryn

metaljohn said:


> I wish it didn't cost so much more to order them with pickup covers. I want to put a set with black pickup covers into my USA BC Rich Warlock.


http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5338014327&icep_item=191616820768
http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5338014327&icep_item=192086543470

There you go, buddy. Went through Banjomikez for my neon green BW's. No complaints, and he always throws in a ton of fun stickers and picks.


----------



## ZombieLloyd

Blytheryn said:


> http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5338014327&icep_item=191616820768
> http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5338014327&icep_item=192086543470
> 
> There you go, buddy.



Funnily enough, those were the exact ones I were talking about.


----------



## youngthrasher9

Banjomikez was always a godsend when I spent a lot of time on the Duncan forum back in the day. Widely hailed as pickup nuts best friend.


----------



## youngthrasher9

That formula makes me uncomfortable how badass it looks.


----------



## metallifan3091

Blytheryn said:


> http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5338014327&icep_item=191616820768
> http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5338014327&icep_item=192086543470
> 
> There you go, buddy. Went through Banjomikez for my neon green BW's. No complaints, and he always throws in a ton of fun stickers and picks.



It's hard to tell in the pictures that he has, but are these a flat black plastic cover or like a brushed/satin black metal cover?


----------



## Blytheryn

metallifan3091 said:


> It's hard to tell in the pictures that he has, but are these a flat black plastic cover or like a brushed/satin black metal cover?


Looks like a matte black metal cover.


----------



## metallifan3091

That's what I thought too. If that's the case, I might have a home for those bad boys very soon.


----------



## Blytheryn

metallifan3091 said:


> That's what I thought too. If that's the case, I might have a home for those bad boys very soon.



That's the stuff!!!


----------



## Zoobiedood

Looks flat black to me, too.


----------



## youngthrasher9

Trying to decide between the X2N and the Black Winter for my baritone. Looking for decent compression, lots of output, and fairly bright but brutal tones. The Titan I have in there is great but a little overly dynamic for what I need, ya know?


----------



## KnightBrolaire

youngthrasher9 said:


> Trying to decide between the X2N and the Black Winter for my baritone. Looking for decent compression, lots of output, and fairly bright but brutal tones. The Titan I have in there is great but a little overly dynamic for what I need, ya know?


x2n will have more output iirc and probably sound brighter (it's been a while since I've played with one). If you want to play teh br00tz then black winters are an excellent choice. They're still pretty high output and have a nice grindy tone/ solid thumping chug but are darker voiced overall ime.


----------



## KailM

The BW rapes the X2n in every way, shape, and form. The X2n is way too high-output, IMO, and just sounds harsh and nasty, but not in a good way. The BW is still pretty high output and bright, but the lows and mids have this organic quality that sounds rich yet still extremely aggressive and gnarly. I think of the X2n as the Boss Metalzone of pickups -- all gain and no "meat."


----------



## Garfish

Does the normal SD pickup covers fit on black winters? I Kinda want to keep that covered look in my LPC


----------



## Blytheryn

Garfish said:


> Does the normal SD pickup covers fit on black winters? I Kinda want to keep that covered look in my LPC


Seeing as there's nothing really special about them, I think so?


----------



## Elwood

Would putting covers on the BW's affect the sound or output?


----------



## AkiraSpectrum

Elwood said:


> Would putting covers on the BW's affect the sound or output?



Putting covers over pickups tends to take away some high end, but it's slight.


----------



## Metropolis

I've considered putting Black Winters to some guitar quite a long time. How these would sound in Ibanez RGA121, it's fairly bright guitar with mahogany body, maple cap, hardtail bridge and bolt-on neck.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Metropolis said:


> I've considered putting Black Winters to some guitar quite a long time. How these would sound in Ibanez RGA121, it's fairly bright guitar with mahogany body, maple cap, hardtail bridge and bolt-on neck.


they work well in brighter guitars, I had one in a swamp ash guitar with ebony top and it should darken it up nicely. They play quite well in mahogany too.


----------



## Metropolis

KnightBrolaire said:


> they work well in brighter guitars, I had one in a swamp ash guitar with ebony top and it should darken it up nicely. They play quite well in mahogany too.



That's what I was thinking too, JB is way too bright and thin in this guitar. It really needs some low end chunk and grit in the mids.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Metropolis said:


> That's what I was thinking too, JB is way too bright and thin in this guitar. It really needs some low end chunk and grit in the mids.


black winter will definitely deliver those qualities.


----------



## Ironbird666

Elwood said:


> Would putting covers on the BW's affect the sound or output?



I have a gold covered Black Winter in my EC-1000, I can't really tell a difference between the other Black Winters I have in other guitars. You should be fine.


----------



## Blytheryn

The running answer for these kind of questions should really just be a copy paste. Yes these pickups will literally rip in your axe. Buy them and tell us about it.


----------



## Elwood

AkiraSpectrum said:


> Putting covers over pickups tends to take away some high end, but it's slight.


Cheers, easy tweak of the amp to sort then. If it's even noticable!


----------



## Aso

Garfish said:


> Does the normal SD pickup covers fit on black winters? I Kinda want to keep that covered look in my LPC


Be aware that there are two different cover widths offered by SD. They are very slightly different in size but if you have pickup cavities were cut tight like my Jackson Masterbuilt was you may run into issues. SD offers a normal spaced cover and the trembucker (f-spaced) pickup. The trembucker is, according to the SD blueprints I was sent from their support staff, about .079 bigger.


----------



## Wizard of Ozz

Anyone else find the BW bridge a little bass-heavy on the low E-A strings when playing chords? Sort of like a bass or depth boost was switched to on? 

It still sounds tight... it just sounds a little extra chunky?


----------



## KailM

Wizard of Ozz said:


> Anyone else find the BW bridge a little bass-heavy on the low E-A strings when playing chords? Sort of like a bass or depth boost was switched to on?
> 
> It still sounds tight... it just sounds a little extra chunky?



Yes, absolutely. That's what I love about it -- it's got mids that grind and tear shit up, but then there's this massive chunk on palm mutes. IMO Seymour Duncan dialed the low end just right with this pickup; any more bass and it would start to flub, any less and it just wouldn't be as satisfying on palm mutes.


----------



## Wizard of Ozz

KailM said:


> Yes, absolutely. That's what I love about it -- it's got mids that grind and tear shit up, but then there's this massive chunk on palm mutes. IMO Seymour Duncan dialed the low end just right with this pickup; any more bass and it would start to flub, any less and it just wouldn't be as satisfying on palm mutes.



Okay... cool. Just checking what my ears hears. Lol. 

When you play on the D to High E strings it's like a somewhat beefed up SD Distortion... but play some chugging power chords or palm mutes on the low E or A ... and you're like... BOOM!... where did that come from. Definitely something different.


----------



## Blytheryn

Wizard of Ozz said:


> Okay... cool. Just checking what my ears hears. Lol.
> 
> When you play on the D to High E strings it's like a somewhat beefed up SD Distortion... but play some chugging power chords or palm mutes on the low E or A ... and you're like... BOOM!... where did that come from. Definitely something different.


Satan. That's where that came from.


----------



## ZombieLloyd

Hey guys. So I got around to making a new video. This is my first video using my new Engl E530, I like how it turned out. And as for the conversation above (sorry for interrupting) yes, Black Winters sound good in bright guitars, as you will hear in the video below.


----------



## KailM

^^^Nice work; and nice playing. That didn't sound overly bright at all. Just great thick but clear tone, all in all.

I've got a brutal death metal track almost finished that I'll share here in a week or so. Gotta keep reppin' the Black Winter love (or is it hate?).


----------



## ZombieLloyd

KailM said:


> ^^^Nice work; and nice playing. That didn't sound overly bright at all. Just great thick but clear tone, all in all.
> 
> I've got a brutal death metal track almost finished that I'll share here in a week or so. Gotta keep reppin' the Black Winter love (or is it hate?).



Thanks! Glad you like the song and the tone. There's a high and low pass filter on 100Hz and 10KHz, respectively and some compression but other than that there's no post production.

I've got a new song I'm working on too, it'll be in C sharp and sounds a little like At the Gates that I'm excited to finish. I'll look forward to hearing your track. Absolutely, I guess it could be either haha.


----------



## Ironbird666

Blytheryn said:


> The running answer for these kind of questions should really just be a copy paste. Yes these pickups will literally rip in your axe. Buy them and tell us about it.



So.... You think it's about time for a Black Winter FAQ Sticky?


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Ironbird666 said:


> So.... You think it's about time for a Black Winter FAQ Sticky?


yes.


----------



## Blytheryn

Ironbird666 said:


> So.... You think it's about time for a Black Winter FAQ Sticky?


 At this point I actually do, given the amount of times I've answered how they sound in "x" tonewood or how they react. Who wants to help me write this?


----------



## ZombieLloyd

Hey guys, here's another song. Also, if any of you happen to be interested, I'll be putting out bass playthroughs of my songs every other week too. Obviously I won't upload those here since they have nothing to do with SD Black Winters but I'm just letting you guys know.



Also, KaiM, what happened to that black metal song you were working on?


----------



## KailM

ZombieLloyd said:


> Hey guys, here's another song. Also, if any of you happen to be interested, I'll be putting out bass playthroughs of my songs every other week too. Obviously I won't upload those here since they have nothing to do with SD Black Winters but I'm just letting you guys know.
> 
> Also, KaiM, what happened to that black metal song you were working on?



Nice work Zombie -- keep doing what you do! And nice reference to an At The Gates lyric! I've been meaning to do a proper cover of "Slaughter of the Soul" this summer -- it's one of my warm up songs.

As for that black metal song I shared a portion of about a month or so ago -- it's 99% finished and it turned out to be the best song I've ever done. I'm going to add some vocals and have a few minor tweaks to make on the drums and it'll be finished. I may still wait to release it with my full album this Fall though, as it is the grand finale of the album.

I do have a Bloodbath meets Decapitated meets Cannibal Corpse death metal song I'll share real soon.  I had it all mixed and pretty much finished but then I came up with a super sick riff that I think I need to sandwich in there somewhere.


----------



## ZombieLloyd

KailM said:


> Nice work Zombie -- keep doing what you do! And nice reference to an At The Gates lyric! I've been meaning to do a proper cover of "Slaughter of the Soul" this summer -- it's one of my warm up songs.
> 
> As for that black metal song I shared a portion of about a month or so ago -- it's 99% finished and it turned out to be the best song I've ever done. I'm going to add some vocals and have a few minor tweaks to make on the drums and it'll be finished. I may still wait to release it with my full album this Fall though, as it is the grand finale of the album.
> 
> I do have a Bloodbath meets Decapitated meets Cannibal Corpse death metal song I'll share real soon.  I had it all mixed and pretty much finished but then I came up with a super sick riff that I think I need to sandwich in there somewhere.



Thanks, I will! I'm glad you picked up on the AtG reference, I thought it sounded like a cool song name so I've literally been planning on using it for like 2 months haha. I'm working on another one that sounds a little black metal influenced. By that I mean lots of inverted power chords haha.

Okay, I look forward or hearing it when it's finished. 
As for the Slaughter of the Soul cover, seriously let me know when you do that, I love that song haha.

That's funny, I get sudden riff ideas to add into songs too, but it's a hassle because I usually can't do sections, I need to do a whole take so it becomes super time consuming, I end up just making a new song out of them, use them as the building blocks from which to draw inspiration from, you know? Like this song, I had a section I thought would sound great, couldn't really fit it in and now I'm just using it as the intro to the new song I'll start working on as soon as I've put that bass playthrough together.


----------



## KailM

Blytheryn said:


> At this point I actually do, given the amount of times I've answered how they sound in "x" tonewood or how they react. Who wants to help me write this?


Can't we just get this thread stickied? That would be the easiest route I think.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Decided to put an alnico 8 in my 6 string black winter bridge. should be fun to see how it changes the sound.


----------



## Blytheryn

KnightBrolaire said:


> Decided to put an alnico 8 in my 6 string black winter bridge. should be fun to see how it changes the sound.



Have your report on my desk by Monday morning.


----------



## Screamingdaisy

What do you guys think of the BW neck?


----------



## NosralTserrof

KnightBrolaire said:


> Decided to put an alnico 8 in my 6 string black winter bridge. should be fun to see how it changes the sound.



THE NUCLEAR WINTER


----------



## KailM

Here, have some DEATH metal: https://soundcloud.com/kailm-1/toward-the-gallows

Black Winter bridge on all rhythms/BW neck on most of the leads. I even attempted some sweep picking, lolz. Enjoy!


----------



## KnightBrolaire

A8 installed, Nuclear Winter is a go.


----------



## KailM

^^^So how does it SOUND???


----------



## KnightBrolaire

KailM said:


> ^^^So how does it SOUND???


should have clips of it for you guys in a bit.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Alrighty, nuclear winter clips are here. distorted tracks start with no tubescreamer, then with tubescreamer on. black winter is first in all the clips, then nuclear winter. Cleans have gain at noon or so for break up but vol rolled down (so they're not suuuper clean but you get the idea). no post eq, or other bullshit. all amp settings are at noon (except gain for high gain clips, those are at 1'0 clock) . used a blackstar ht100 profile on my kemper. 
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/plrqhcapdi6nu15/AAB1X12zjt65irpAWlvfqnzKa?dl=0


----------



## KnightBrolaire

here's a blues/slide clip of the nuclear winter :
https://www.dropbox.com/s/cs6d2tnohcl5mck/nuclear blues.mp3?dl=0


----------



## Metalman X

Damn, that Nuclear Winter is an interesting animal. I never attempted a magnet swap before, but I hear it's fairly simple? 

Anyways.... heres a thing I been working on. Got a few things going on here. First is the left side is my Ironbird Pro with the BW in it. Other side is a BC Rich Virgin VG2 (higher end NJ like specs, but a bolt on neck with a mahogany body, and dark metallic purplish bevels), which has a BW neck pu, and the bridge is actually a Duncan Design HB104 (Google it), which kinda' sounds like the BW's crusty, kinda' scrubby-but-in-an-endearing-way cousin. Also has big blades, like the Dimebucker/Lawrence, but way wider (and nothing alike in sound). Bass is a Specter Rex with EMG 35CS's, and 2 band preamp.

Pretty much all the "synth" sounds here are the same guitars above, but with a bit of Axe FX f**kery, and an EHX Mel9 pedal on a couple parts. 

https://soundcloud.com/pottersfieldmetal/critical-massive-mix-sample-no-vox


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Metalman X said:


> Damn, that Nuclear Winter is an interesting animal. I never attempted a magnet swap before, but I hear it's fairly simple?
> 
> Anyways.... heres a thing I been working on. Got a few things going on here. First is the left side is my Ironbird Pro with the BW in it. Other side is a BC Rich Virgin VG2 (higher end NJ like specs, but a bolt on neck with a mahogany body, and dark metallic purplish bevels), which has a BW neck pu, and the bridge is actually a Duncan Design HB104 (Google it), which kinda' sounds like the BW's crusty, kinda' scrubby-but-in-an-endearing-way cousin. Also has big blades, like the Dimebucker/Lawrence, but way wider (and nothing alike in sound). Bass is a Specter Rex with EMG 35CS's, and 2 band preamp.
> 
> Pretty much all the "synth" sounds here are the same guitars above, but with a bit of Axe FX f**kery, and an EHX Mel9 pedal on a couple parts.
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/pottersfieldmetal/critical-massive-mix-sample-no-vox


It's pretty easy. basically just take off the black pickup tape and see if you can pop out the magnet, otherwise you'll have to unscrew the base plate and break the pickup free from the wax. then just slap in the new magnet, reverse all the other steps, re melt the wax with a hair dryer and let the pickup sit for a day or two to get the real sound (it'll sound different than when you first swap magnets).


----------



## Blytheryn

Nothing ultra produced from end yet, but I had some time in the apartment to crank up the Stealth and fire off a few quick riffs. The black winters and the inherent tightness of the Stealth really work well together, even on genres where that kind of tightness isn't a staple. I love the snarl you get when you drag pick chords and play some single note stuff with this setup. So killer.

By the way, does anyone know how I get my videos to correctly display in widescreen if I record and upload straight from my phone?


----------



## KailM

Blytheryn said:


> Nothing ultra produced from end yet, but I had some time in the apartment to crank up the Stealth and fire off a few quick riffs. The black winters and the inherent tightness of the Stealth really work well together, even on genres where that kind of tightness isn't a staple. I love the snarl you get when you drag pick chords and play some single note stuff with this setup. So killer.
> 
> By the way, does anyone know how I get my videos to correctly display in widescreen if I record and upload straight from my phone?




Very nice sounding rig there! I don't think I could ever get tired of the 5150/6505 family of tones. Gotta try one of those Stealths one of these days...


----------



## Blytheryn

KailM said:


> Very nice sounding rig there! I don't think I could ever get tired of the 5150/6505 family of tones. Gotta try one of those Stealths one of these days...


I hope you get to. This amp is totally vicious, and there's only 250, so I hope you can try one somewhere!


----------



## NosralTserrof

I'm one of you now.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

NosralTserrof said:


> I'm one of you now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT: Picture isn't showing up. Whyyyyyy


because you're using imgur. imgur doesn't allow hosting on sso anymore


----------



## NosralTserrof

KnightBrolaire said:


> because you're using imgur. imgur doesn't allow hosting on sso anymore



Oh dope. That's annoying but w/e. Fixed it now


----------



## Smoked Porter

Anyone used the normal spaced _and _trembucker versions of the bridge pickup? Got a guitar with a Floyd and Warpig that I'm thinking of dropping the Black Winter into. I've read that unlike Dimarzio's F-spaced stuff, Duncan trembuckers have wider bobbins, and can sound worse tonally compared to the normal spacing, so I was thinking about just going with the standard one. I don't have any personal experience with that though, so thought I'd check here.

Edit: Although, my first Black Winter was the 7 string version and it's my favorite metal pickup, so maybe I shouldn't be too worried?


----------



## chopeth

Dunno, mate, I have the trem 6 version for my Ibanez s and it sounds killer


----------



## Blytheryn

Smoked Porter said:


> Anyone used the normal spaced _and _trembucker versions of the bridge pickup? Got a guitar with a Floyd and Warpig that I'm thinking of dropping the Black Winter into. I've read that unlike Dimarzio's F-spaced stuff, Duncan trembuckers have wider bobbins, and can sound worse tonally compared to the normal spacing, so I was thinking about just going with the standard one. I don't have any personal experience with that though, so thought I'd check here.
> 
> Edit: Although, my first Black Winter was the 7 string version and it's my favorite metal pickup, so maybe I shouldn't be too worried?



I've had stock, floor custom, normal spaced and F-spaced. All have that same BW grind and chunk we all love. How do you define "worse sounding"? If bobbin size was an issue the 7 and 8 strings would sound totally different, and even if the difference in the bobbin is slightly different... How much can it possibly differ?


----------



## Zoobiedood

Smoked Porter said:


> Anyone used the normal spaced _and _trembucker versions of the bridge pickup? Got a guitar with a Floyd and Warpig that I'm thinking of dropping the Black Winter into. I've read that unlike Dimarzio's F-spaced stuff, Duncan trembuckers have wider bobbins, and can sound worse tonally compared to the normal spacing, so I was thinking about just going with the standard one. I don't have any personal experience with that though, so thought I'd check here.
> 
> Edit: Although, my first Black Winter was the 7 string version and it's my favorite metal pickup, so maybe I shouldn't be too worried?



They sound exactly the same to me.


----------



## Smoked Porter

Blytheryn said:


> How do you define "worse sounding"?



Supposedly, having a wider bobbin but the same amount of winds can make a combination of a hotter signal and thinner sound in some Duncans. I dunno, I'm not a pickupologist.  Judging by the responses so far, I'm just gonna grab whichever spacing is available for cheaper used.


----------



## Blytheryn

Smoked Porter said:


> Supposedly, having a wider bobbin but the same amount of winds can make a combination of a hotter signal and thinner sound in some Duncans. I dunno, I'm not a pickupologist.  Judging by the responses so far, I'm just gonna grab whichever spacing is available for cheaper used.


You kind of want to have the normal spacing if you have a fixed bridge and a F-Spaced if you have a Floyd. So that the poles line up with the strings.


----------



## Smoked Porter

Well, that I do have experience with.  I've had enough guitars where the pole pieces weren't lined up perfectly, and to my ears at least, the sound was still great. So I'm not worried about that.


----------



## Aso

These pictures are from the technical drawings SD sent me when I was trying to figure out why my covered Black Winters had issues with the routes on my Jackson King V that came from the custom shop with a covered SD pickup.

Standard SD pickup spacing



Trembucker SD pickup spacing


----------



## ZombieLloyd

Hey guys, I finally got around to recording another video. To contribute to the conversation, I'm using the standard spaced Black Winter in my guitar, it sounds pretty good to me. Would anything actually change tone wise if I got the F-spaced version?


----------



## KailM

Nice riffs man! I doubt you'd notice a sonic difference by changing to the F-spaced version. There may be some people who could, but every time I've seen that topic come up, people tend to say "couldn't hear a difference." I think it's more of a cosmetic thing, for the most part.


----------



## ZombieLloyd

KailM said:


> Nice riffs man! I doubt you'd notice a sonic difference by changing to the F-spaced version. There may be some people who could, but every time I've seen that topic come up, people tend to say "couldn't hear a difference." I think it's more of a cosmetic thing, for the most part.



Thanks, that first part is a little hard to play for me because I'm not used to that picking pattern which is why I went to power chords in the last 8 bars. I've always seen that too, I don't care too much that they don't line up perfectly since I'm not staring at my pickups when I play guitar haha. Thanks for answering the question.


----------



## Blytheryn

ZombieLloyd said:


> Hey guys, I finally got around to recording another video. To contribute to the conversation, I'm using the standard spaced Black Winter in my guitar, it sounds pretty good to me. Would anything actually change tone wise if I got the F-spaced version?





Those riffs are sweet dude! Man, I seriously doubt there is any measurable difference by placing the poles slightly differently. Especially with gain on top. The whole point is that they line up with the strings on FR's.


----------



## ZombieLloyd

Blytheryn said:


> Those riffs are sweet dude! Man, I seriously doubt there is any measurable difference by placing the poles slightly differently. Especially with gain on top. The whole point is that they line up with the strings on FR's.



Thank you, I'm glad you like the song. Yeah, I didn't think so, but it's better to ask and know for sure, since I'm a pickup noob really haha.


----------



## ZombieLloyd

Hey guys. It's time for the new song haha. It's a slower track than I normally do but it turned out really well. To me anyway. Blytheryn, anymore pictures of that guitar with the green Black Winters? How does it sound?


----------



## MAJ Meadows SF

ZombieLloyd said:


> Hey guys. It's time for the new song haha. It's a slower track than I normally do but it turned out really well. To me anyway. Blytheryn, anymore pictures of that guitar with the green Black Winters? How does it sound?


 Nice doomy tune. 

So I've ordered a Black Winter 7 with an A8 magnet, acquired a ceramic BW 7, and have my BW 7 AV, which is one of my ATF pickups. Plus recently grabbed an SD Omega bridge to compare them all, but mostly the BWs. I also reached out to Simon Sludge about adding them all to his pickup shoot out which he is totally game for! So when he makes it back from his travels and SD delivers (pathetically slow response time right now), we'll have something awesome to drool over in the next couple of months.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

MAJ Meadows SF said:


> Nice doomy tune.
> 
> So I've ordered a Black Winter 7 with an A8 magnet, acquired a ceramic BW 7, and have my BW 7 AV, which is one of my ATF pickups. Plus recently grabbed an SD Omega bridge to compare them all, but mostly the BWs. I also reached out to Simon Sludge about adding them all to his pickup shoot out which he is totally game for! So when he makes it back from his travels and SD delivers (pathetically slow response time right now), we'll have something awesome to drool over in the next couple of months.


Nice, simon does a good job of showcasing the pups in a metal context. The alnico 8 really doesn't change a ton from the regular ceramic mag imo. It shaves a little bit of high end off and makes it slightly clearer but other than that it's still a savage pickup. When I compared the 8 string black winter vs the omega 8 there was no comparison in clarity. Omega was significantly clearer overall. I think the 8 string version is too dark on the low end for my tastes.


----------



## ZombieLloyd

MAJ Meadows SF said:


> Nice doomy tune.
> 
> So I've ordered a Black Winter 7 with an A8 magnet, acquired a ceramic BW 7, and have my BW 7 AV, which is one of my ATF pickups. Plus recently grabbed an SD Omega bridge to compare them all, but mostly the BWs. I also reached out to Simon Sludge about adding them all to his pickup shoot out which he is totally game for! So when he makes it back from his travels and SD delivers (pathetically slow response time right now), we'll have something awesome to drool over in the next couple of months.



Thank you, I'm glad you liked the song.

The pickup comparison sounds interesting. You'll have to send me a link when he gets around to doing it.


----------



## Blytheryn

MAJ Meadows SF said:


> Nice doomy tune.
> 
> So I've ordered a Black Winter 7 with an A8 magnet, acquired a ceramic BW 7, and have my BW 7 AV, which is one of my ATF pickups. Plus recently grabbed an SD Omega bridge to compare them all, but mostly the BWs. I also reached out to Simon Sludge about adding them all to his pickup shoot out which he is totally game for! So when he makes it back from his travels and SD delivers (pathetically slow response time right now), we'll have something awesome to drool over in the next couple of months.



That sounds great! Can't wait to hear it.


----------



## elkoki

Tried Black winters in my basswood Schecter and it was aight. nothing spectacular, I just put the bridge into a Hellraiser Solo. Sounds great, palm muted notes sound crazy.


----------



## elkoki

I'm now a fan of the Black Winter for sure. It actually sounds more percussive than the EMG 81 that was originally in my Schecter. This is probably my new favorite guitar. This is the first time i've actually liked a Seymour Duncan LOL. I've always been a Dimarzio guy.


----------



## Blytheryn

ZombieLloyd said:


> Hey guys. It's time for the new song haha. It's a slower track than I normally do but it turned out really well. To me anyway. Blytheryn, anymore pictures of that guitar with the green Black Winters? How does it sound?




My Formula? It's getting set up at the shop right now, but I'll get some stuff for you and the rest of the dudes asap!


----------



## Elwood

elkoki said:


> I'm now a fan of the Black Winter for sure. It actually sounds more percussive than the EMG 81 that was originally in my Schecter. This is probably my new favorite guitar. This is the first time i've actually liked a Seymour Duncan LOL. I've always been a Dimarzio guy.



When you switched did you change the pots out as well?


----------



## elkoki

Elwood said:


> When you switched did you change the pots out as well?



Lol yeah. Are you wondering if i'm an idiot or what? The EMGS that came stock in the guitar came with the standard 25k pots, I used an old Schecter wiring harness from a different Schecter and placed it in this one.


----------



## Womb raider

PSA... get yourselves a set of Black Winters 40% off. Came to $119. 3 left


----------



## episode666

I had a BW set in my Les Paul Custom. I think the bridge is one of the best pickups out there, but didn't really bond with the neck. Too muddy and has too much bass. 
Has anyone had a similar experience?


----------



## KailM

episode666 said:


> I had a BW set in my Les Paul Custom. I think the bridge is one of the best pickups out there, but didn't really bond with the neck. Too muddy and has too much bass.
> Has anyone had a similar experience?



My BW neck is somewhat bassy I've found. But it kinda depends on the amp too. On my Classic 30 I have to dial the bass back a bit for clean sounds, but then it sounds awesome. I also have mine set up for coil-split and both BW pickups sound amazing split -- my favorite is combining both and splitting them.


----------



## MAJ Meadows SF

ZombieLloyd said:


> Thank you, I'm glad you liked the song.
> 
> The pickup comparison sounds interesting. You'll have to send me a link when he gets around to doing it.



WILL DO!



KnightBrolaire said:


> Nice, simon does a good job of showcasing the pups in a metal context. The alnico 8 really doesn't change a ton from the regular ceramic mag imo. It shaves a little bit of high end off and makes it slightly clearer but other than that it's still a savage pickup. When I compared the 8 string black winter vs the omega 8 there was no comparison in clarity. Omega was significantly clearer overall. I think the 8 string version is too dark on the low end for my tastes.



On the Omega clarity vs BW: I'll bet. The lower register, longer the scale, the better with the Omega. But that's MY problem with the Omega: too clear. I'm learning I'm sick and tired of all the ultra clear, scalpel cutting pickups. I like the voicing in some of these pickups, and while clarity is important, there is a noticeable sacrifice with weight and heft in individual notes to my ears. I end up adding a lot of bass in my amp settings, especially when I add an OD into the chain. To be honest, the only ultra clear pickups that I've had almost no issues with at all are the Ormsby Nunchuckers (6 & 7). But they are slightly too low-mid gain sometimes. Depends on the application, yes true. Everyone is going to have a setup difference and frequency preference, etc, so we all have that going on for us as well. But, FWIW, I think the Omega is one of the best pickups SD has ever designed. I'm thinking of doing another hybrid with an Omega and BW like I did with the BW and Nazgul. Just spit balling. So yes I don't expect the A8 to be a dramatic change like the AV magnet did but my ears tend to enjoy pickups with A8 magnets more than ceramic. I want some clarity and dynamics but thickness, grind, and really just on the edge of being out of control. The sweet spot between modern metal and death doom.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

MAJ Meadows SF said:


> On the Omega clarity vs BW: I'll bet. The lower register, longer the scale, the better with the Omega. But that's MY problem with the Omega: too clear. I'm learning I'm sick and tired of all the ultra clear, scalpel cutting pickups. I like the voicing in some of these pickups, and while clarity is important, there is a noticeable sacrifice with weight and heft in individual notes to my ears. I end up adding a lot of bass in my amp settings, especially when I add an OD into the chain. To be honest, the only ultra clear pickups that I've had almost no issues with at all are the Ormsby Nunchuckers (6 & 7). But they are slightly too low-mid gain sometimes. Depends on the application, yes true. Everyone is going to have a setup difference and frequency preference, etc, so we all have that going on for us as well. But, FWIW, I think the Omega is one of the best pickups SD has ever designed. I'm thinking of doing another hybrid with an Omega and BW like I did with the BW and Nazgul. Just spit balling. So yes I don't expect the A8 to be a dramatic change like the AV magnet did but my ears tend to enjoy pickups with A8 magnets more than ceramic. I want some clarity and dynamics but thickness, grind, and really just on the edge of being out of control. The sweet spot between modern metal and death doom.


It's weird but the bw 8 string version was darker overall than the ceramic warpig. the cpig was simultaneously dark on the low end and shrill in the high end in my swamp ash 8. I loved the chunky sound they both had but it was just too dark when playing through my boogie. The only pickups I've found with comparable chunk/thuds when you chug are the lundgren m8s and my elysian (though it's not as pronounced as the others). 
An omega/bw hybrid could be cool, though I don't know exactly how they'd achieve that unless they just combine one coil from the omega and one from the black winter. It might be super mid heavy since the omega and bw both are pretty mid forward sounding. Part of me wants to put an alnico v in a nazgul and see what happens, or maybe take some the invader and slap in an alnico v just to see what happens.


----------



## episode666

KailM said:


> My BW neck is somewhat bassy I've found. But it kinda depends on the amp too. On my Classic 30 I have to dial the bass back a bit for clean sounds, but then it sounds awesome. I also have mine set up for coil-split and both BW pickups sound amazing split -- my favorite is combining both and splitting them.



The amps were Marshall JVM and TSL heads, I consider them pretty bright. 
At the end i swapped BW neck with sh-1n. It is kind of a mismatch but it works.


----------



## chopeth

KnightBrolaire said:


> the cpig was simultaneously dark on the low end and shrill in the high end in my swamp ash 8. I loved the chunky sound they both had but it was just too dark when playing through my boogie.



That exactly happens to me even in mahogany with my Cpig 7, When I use my 5153 the highs are a bit shrill even with this apparently very dark pup. When I plug it into my Ironball the overall sound is great though.


----------



## MAJ Meadows SF

KnightBrolaire said:


> Part of me wants to put an alnico v in a nazgul and see what happens, or maybe take some the invader and slap in an alnico v just to see what happens.



It really worked well in the BW. I love the AV 7 string version and believe it should be a standard option. I think it would be interesting in a Nazgul, maybe warm it up a bit.


----------



## wakjob

Anyone tried the BW neck in the bridge position yet?


----------



## ZombieLloyd

wakjob said:


> Anyone tried the BW neck in the bridge position yet?



Wouldn't it just be the same thing with lower gain?


----------



## wakjob

ZombieLloyd said:


> Wouldn't it just be the same thing with lower gain?



 don't know. That's why I asked.

Are they voiced differently?
Do they react differently?


----------



## TheShreddinHand

Hey guys, been watching and reading through this thread a bit and have a quick question. I have a Jackson pro soloist sl2q that came with distortions which I did really like save for they could be a little harsh on the high end when playing on the high strings. Seems like the black winters eq curve would solve that issue and be a little smoother for lead playing on the neck. From the reviews I'm ready these could be the answer. I put a Pegasus/sentient set in but have discovered with my light pick attack that I need higher output pickups. Was gonna go the way of the JB and something for the neck (couldn't figure out what) but the BW neck had me more intrigued than any other SD neck pickup and from what I read earlier in this thread the closest to some dimarzio type neck pickups. What do you guys think?


----------



## KnightBrolaire

TheShreddinHand said:


> Hey guys, been watching and reading through this thread a bit and have a quick question. I have a Jackson pro soloist sl2q that came with distortions which I did really like save for they could be a little harsh on the high end when playing on the high strings. Seems like the black winters eq curve would solve that issue and be a little smoother for lead playing on the neck. From the reviews I'm ready these could be the answer. I put a Pegasus/sentient set in but have discovered with my light pick attack that I need higher output pickups. Was gonna go the way of the JB and something for the neck (couldn't figure out what) but the BW neck had me more intrigued than any other SD neck pickup and from what I read earlier in this thread the closest to some dimarzio type neck pickups. What do you guys think?


honestly the cheapest thing to do is a mag swap. Putting in a thicker a8 or ceramic mag will help make the pegasus/sentient a lot meaner/high output sounding. if you really want a bw neck I have one that I'm trying to get rid of.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

demo of the nuclear winter through my boogie f30:


----------



## ZombieLloyd

KnightBrolaire said:


> demo of the nuclear winter through my boogie f30:




Sounds great, dude! I was considering putting Black Winter pickups in my Washburn Solar V but I like the Duncan Solar pickups a lot. I might still do that at some point, though right now I'm saving up for a Randall Satan.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

ZombieLloyd said:


> Sounds great, dude! I was considering putting Black Winter pickups in my Washburn Solar V but I like the Duncan Solar pickups a lot. I might still do that at some point, though right now I'm saving up for a Randall Satan.


thanks. The black winters destroy through a boogie, something about mid forward voiced pickups that just pairs so well with that amp imo.


----------



## JD27

Well glad someone tried the “Nuclear Winter” idea. I’d still like to try that at some point, just don’t have anything in need of pickup swaps.


----------



## technomancer

JD27 said:


> Well glad someone tried the “Nuclear Winter” idea. I’d still like to try that at some point, just don’t have anything in need of pickup swaps.



I usually find that means it is time to buy another guitar


----------



## JD27

technomancer said:


> I usually find that means it is time to buy another guitar



Yeah well my current boner for CS and USA ESPs is making that an expensive proposition.


----------



## technomancer

JD27 said:


> Yeah well my current boner for CS and USA ESPs is making that an expensive proposition.



I feel your pain, for me those two and add Suhr and PRS to the list


----------



## AirForbes1

I have an Ibanez ARZ700 that I'm not really digging. I got a good deal on it, so it was okay for the price. It has your standard issue EMG 81/60 set in it.

I wanted to change the pickups to a passive set, so I started looking around for guitars that had the right set of pickups in it, stock. I figured for the price of getting a set of pups (or close to), I could try to find the right guitar, used, sell my Ibanez, and get my pickup swap while also upgrading the ARZ700 to a body that I preferred.

Anyway, I had a look at a PRS SE Holcomb, Schecter Banshee (with a set of Nazgul/Sentient), and a Schecter KM-6 (you already know which one I got).

I tried the Holcomb first as I thought it would be exactly what I wanted. The guitar feels great, I really liked it, but I felt that the Omega was missing something. I really liked how articulate they were, but were just missing a little extra bite. I'm not knocking them, lot's of people love them, but they were just a bit flat for me, personally.

When I tried the Km-6 with the BWs, it was exactly what I wanted. Great articulation, so clear, turn the gain up to whatever you want. Super versatile (for a predominantly metal pickup).


----------



## KailM

I just finished -"Winterizing" this track, so I thought I'd share it here first. This is what the Black Winter pickups are made for. There's a little Nazgul mixed in too; the solo at the end. Cheers!
https://soundcloud.com/kailm-1/pestilential-flood-1


----------



## Vyn

I've just ordered a set to replace the stock Jackson branded pickups in the 7-string Rhoads, looking forward to them!


----------



## KnightBrolaire

don't know if you guys have seen this but it's the bw combined with the nazgul like maj. meadows talked about.


----------



## narad

Sounds noticably better than either option to my ears. Very tempting. Wish they had given @MAJ Meadows SF some credit for originally ordering it though!


----------



## KnightBrolaire

I'm thinking about swapping an a5 into black winter and calling it Skadi after the norse goddess of winter.


----------



## AkiraSpectrum

KnightBrolaire said:


> I'm thinking about swapping an a5 into black winter and calling it Skadi after the norse goddess of winter.


Sounds really cool. An A2 magnet would also be neat!


----------



## KnightBrolaire

AkiraSpectrum said:


> Sounds really cool. An A2 magnet would also be neat!


hmm I'll see how the a5 sounds before going lower than that.


----------



## MAJ Meadows SF

narad said:


> Sounds noticably better than either option to my ears. Very tempting. Wish they had given @MAJ Meadows SF some credit for originally ordering it though!


 Well he probably never heard of the order I was placing, and I never made a video because I've been deployed and moving around too much! So cheers to beating me to the punch. His pickup sounds close to mine. It's a good hybrid that flattens the Nazgul EQ a bit and adds more fullness to the tone overall. I do notice the higher strings are a little thin, so I'm going to order another one at some point with tweaks. Kinda like Lorcan's custom fanned model he ordered for one of his Carillions. I'm gonna reach out to this guy to compare notes. I think his mix removes a lot of the low end and punch this beast has though. I loosely named mine the SD "Forbidden Gates" because of the sigil. I love the "Nuclear Winter" name that's been coined here. I'd love a short line of apptly named Lovecraft themed metal pickups. Shit, the more I think about it the more I want to learn to wind my own, like doing ammo reloads for odd calibers. Hmm...



KnightBrolaire said:


> I'm thinking about swapping an a5 into black winter and calling it Skadi after the norse goddess of winter.



I did it in a 7, and it ripps. Appropriate name. The AV seems to warm the tone a bit and it seems darker in the Cimmerian VII with Limba/Korina body, maple top, maple neck, than the BKP C-Pig that came with it. I loved the C-Pig harmonics and clarity, but it just was to brought for that guitar; almost djenty no matter how soft I played. The AV in the BW did the trick. If I can get all 3 common mag versions into my KM-7 to record a few clips I will, otherwise I'll see if SimonXSludge can fit it into his busy schedule preparing the Nightmarer release.


----------



## narad

MAJ Meadows SF said:


> Well he probably never heard of the order I was placing, and I never made a video because I've been deployed and moving around too much! So cheers to beating me to the punch. His pickup sounds close to mine. It's a good hybrid that flattens the Nazgul EQ a bit and adds more fullness to the tone overall. I do notice the higher strings are a little thin, so I'm going to order another one at some point with tweaks. Kinda like Lorcan's custom fanned model he ordered for one of his Carillions. I'm gonna reach out to this guy to compare notes. I think his mix removes a lot of the low end and punch this beast has though. I loosely named mine the SD "Forbidden Gates" because of the sigil. I love the "Nuclear Winter" name that's been coined here. I'd love a short line of apptly named Lovecraft themed metal pickups. Shit, the more I think about it the more I want to learn to wind my own, like doing ammo reloads for odd calibers. Hmm...



Ah, I hadn't realized it wasn't an official SD creation from the custom shop (because the production looked exactly like what they would do, and I thought the guitar player was Ola). "Nuclear Winter" is pretty great. I probably would have played the other angle, starting from the Nazgul, and gone with "Witch King".


----------



## MAJ Meadows SF

narad said:


> Ah, I hadn't realized it wasn't an official SD creation from the custom shop (because the production looked exactly like what they would do, and I thought the guitar player was Ola). "Nuclear Winter" is pretty great. I probably would have played the other angle, starting from the Nazgul, and gone with "Witch King".



Yeah I thought of that too! Killer name idea. But I was sticking with the Lovecraft theme of the guitar. Whatever the name, they sound exactly as requested. Oddly I didn't quite dig the tone at first, but I went back to my notes to MJ and Derek and realized they delivered what I described. It grew on me quickly, and now I think I know what to improve upon to nail exactly what I wanted to hear. I'll have more in the NGD I am working on over the next few weeks or month. I am amassing pictures and trying some rough clips out! Promise!


----------



## KnightBrolaire

MAJ Meadows SF said:


> Well he probably never heard of the order I was placing, and I never made a video because I've been deployed and moving around too much! So cheers to beating me to the punch. His pickup sounds close to mine. It's a good hybrid that flattens the Nazgul EQ a bit and adds more fullness to the tone overall. I do notice the higher strings are a little thin, so I'm going to order another one at some point with tweaks. Kinda like Lorcan's custom fanned model he ordered for one of his Carillions. I'm gonna reach out to this guy to compare notes. I think his mix removes a lot of the low end and punch this beast has though. I loosely named mine the SD "Forbidden Gates" because of the sigil. I love the "Nuclear Winter" name that's been coined here. I'd love a short line of apptly named Lovecraft themed metal pickups. Shit, the more I think about it the more I want to learn to wind my own, like doing ammo reloads for odd calibers. Hmm...
> 
> 
> 
> I did it in a 7, and it ripps. Appropriate name. The AV seems to warm the tone a bit and it seems darker in the Cimmerian VII with Limba/Korina body, maple top, maple neck, than the BKP C-Pig that came with it. I loved the C-Pig harmonics and clarity, but it just was to brought for that guitar; almost djenty no matter how soft I played. The AV in the BW did the trick. If I can get all 3 common mag versions into my KM-7 to record a few clips I will, otherwise I'll see if SimonXSludge can fit it into his busy schedule preparing the Nightmarer release.


I just tested the A5 version in my 6 string and I dig it. Still nice and percussive/chunky like the black winter or nuclear winter, but even warmer on the high end. Honestly I'd say that's the main difference, is the warmer high end and a slightly different low end. video will be up tomorrow. 
here's a clip comparing all three in the meantime (starts with ceramic unboosted and boosted, then same for a8 and a5):
https://www.dropbox.com/s/tmbv3a7aqr0o4jw/kaijiujitsu_a5_a8_ceramic mag comparison.mp3?dl=0
here's some TRV KVLT shit:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/69scnu4kmyetder/Skadi TRV KVLT_triple recto .mp3?dl=0
other clips:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/plrqhcapdi6nu15/AAB1X12zjt65irpAWlvfqnzKa?dl=0


----------



## KnightBrolaire

skadi vid is up


----------



## metallifan3091

Finally put a set of Shop Floor Custom BWs in my PRS Tremonti a while back and they sound huge. I've been too lazy to take any pictures so far but I'll try to get one uploaded tomorrow.


----------



## Vyn

Today is a good day


----------



## rexbinary

Black Winter is so cold.... and dark.... that it cracked the case. I cut my wrist on the cracked case and filled the logos with my blood.


----------



## 0rimus

"Patrolling the Mojave almost makes you wish for a SET OF BLACK WINTERS"

Mine came cracked too, maybe it's a feature?













20180204_114905



__ 0rimus
__ Feb 6, 2018


----------



## Marked Man

0rimus said:


> "Patrolling the Mojave almost makes you wish for a SET OF BLACK WINTERS"
> 
> Mine came cracked too, maybe it's a feature?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 20180204_114905
> 
> 
> 
> __ 0rimus
> __ Feb 6, 2018



That's because the heaviness. No plastic case can hold them! They should ship in metal cases!


----------



## TheShreddinHand

I very much dug the Black Winters but they ultimately weren't for me. If anyone is interested I put a set up for sale in the classifieds. Just hit me up if interested.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Marked Man said:


> That's because the heaviness. No plastic case can hold them! They should ship in metal cases!


Bomb proof metal cases.


----------



## awesomeaustin

USA Warrior with newly installed BWs


----------



## Blytheryn

awesomeaustin said:


> USA Warrior with newly installed BWs


BY THE TEATS OF FREYA! :bow:


----------



## TunedToB

Hi, guys! A bit new here, but I can't wait to be a part of the BW gang! I'm about one paycheck away from ordering a set for my new RGA121.

After enjoying a BKP loaded 7-string for about half a year for all my djenty and hyper-tight modern needs, I decided to buy the RGA and turn it into my 6-string melo-death and death metal monster with plenty of grind, spit, and attitude.


----------



## NosralTserrof

TunedToB said:


> Hi, guys! A bit new here, but I can't wait to be a part of the BW gang! I'm about one paycheck away from ordering a set for my new RGA121.
> 
> After enjoying a BKP loaded 7-string for about half a year for all my djenty and hyper-tight modern needs, I decided to buy the RGA and turn it into my 6-string melo-death and death metal monster with plenty of grind, spit, and attitude.



Nice dude! I play pseudo-hyper-tight stuff with my KM6, and the Black Winter can totally do that, and it doesn't sound anemic like a lot of the BKP stuff tends to do.


----------



## TunedToB

NosralTserrof said:


> Nice dude! I play pseudo-hyper-tight stuff with my KM6, and the Black Winter can totally do that, and it doesn't sound anemic like a lot of the BKP stuff tends to do.



Thanks for the input! Yeah while I do love my 7's clarity and growl, I admit it can get a bit too...dry and tight if that makes any sense. It definitely works for djent and stuff but I wanted something with a bit more filth and body. I should get my set around next month mehehehe.


----------



## Seabeast2000

I'm in the CLUB! Installed BW's on a basswood RG570 and loving the heavy smoothness of them. Or is it smooth heaviness, who knows? Daddy like.


----------



## Sumsar

Just ordered a black winter 7 bridge pickup for my Chris Broderick soloist 7 which is a neckthrough mahogany.. gonna be pretty brutal i suspect


----------



## KailM

Sumsar said:


> Just ordered a black winter 7 bridge pickup for my Chris Broderick soloist 7 which is a neckthrough mahogany.. *gonna be pretty brutal i suspec*t



Yep. Welcome to the club.


----------



## Vyn

I've switched everything over to Black Winters bar two guitars which I'm waiting for pickups to come in the mail. I have a problem.


----------



## KailM

Vyn said:


> I've switched everything over to Black Winters bar two guitars which I'm waiting for pickups to come in the mail. I have a problem.



You've got a fever. And the only prescription...is more Black Winter.


----------



## Vyn

KailM said:


> You've got a fever. And the only prescription...is more Black Winter.



It's pretty bad when you've spent close to $2k USD on pickups in the past month xD


----------



## KailM

Vyn said:


> It's pretty bad when you've spent close to $2k USD on pickups in the past month xD



Yes, I'd say you've got a problem. 

Though, if I had enough money, I'd be that way with amps.


----------



## Sumsar

Sumsar said:


> Just ordered a black winter 7 bridge pickup for my Chris Broderick soloist 7 which is a neckthrough mahogany.. gonna be pretty brutal i suspect



Oh yeah, I got the pickup and got it into the guitar - sounds great. Did a cover using it, check it out:


----------



## -JeKo-

What's this talk about the sonic difference between the trembucker and regular spaced one? I mean, that can't possibly affect the tone, can it?


----------



## KailM

-JeKo- said:


> What's this talk about the sonic difference between the trembucker and regular spaced one? I mean, that can't possibly affect the tone, can it?



It would be imperceptible, tonewise. Mostly a cosmetic thing.


----------



## Metalman X

Anybody here experiment with the neck BW in the bridge position?

I recently returned back to these pickups after going active for a stint again..... damn, these just WORK! 

Now, in this switch, I realized after selling off some of my extra BW's.... dammit.... and I'm broke... so I only had one set of neck/bridge I kept. I put the bridge back into my single humbucker BC Rich Ironbird.... and I wound up trying the neck in the bridge position on my BC Rich Virgin.

And I gotta say.... with some appropriate tweaks in my main patch on my Axe FX, it sounds very similar to the bridge. Basically, to my ears the difference is slightly les output, and a little more clarity, with the mids slightly shifted. Like.... if you ever fancied a Black Winter bridge but with the bit mire chilled output of a Fulll Shred, you need to give this a go!

Also, you dont need to flip the pickup around for this. I originally installed it this way with the logic of keeping the screwheads towards the bridge as they'd be oriented with the actual bridge model. This had a sound too, but not much different. it sounded better installed the regular way, with the Duncan logo facing the way it should.

I might post up some samples in the coming week. Been tracking my rhythm parts on some stuff with the Ironbird left, and the Virgin right. They seem to compliment eachother well in the mix, which isn't terribly surprising I suppose. But hey, if your broke, or bored, give this a shot. Curious to see anybody else thoughts on this


----------



## 0rimus

I swapped the magnet of my BW neck out for an Unoriented Alnico 5 magnet, and while doing so I noticed the neck had a double thick ceramic magnet.

Had to cut a bit of cardboard to space it out correctly.

Ended up swapping the BW bridge for a Custom, but maybe I shoulda tried swapping the bridge and neck first?

Wanted clearer/less saturated in the bridge and warmer/hotter in the neck


----------



## Sumsar

Did another cover using the 7 string Black Winter bridge. Clip has Normal rythm playing, dirty/clean as well as leads, so hopefully it gives people some idea what this pickup can do


----------



## Ironbird666

There's a particular growl BW's have that I just can't get enough of. Nice cover man, and I must say, as good as your guitar playing is I really enjoyed your bass technique! It's always nice watching someone play with their fingers rather than grab a pick (I'm guilty of grabbing a pick Lol).


----------



## Sumsar

Thanks 
Yes I have really been getting into bass playing the last 6 months and it is fun and I think it sounds better.

Btw I updated the mix somewhat:


----------



## Vyn

Ironbird666 said:


> There's a particular growl BW's have that I just can't get enough of.



So much this. I don't know what it is, it just sounds right. It's not fizzy but it's still savage as fuck.


----------



## Ironbird666

Vyn said:


> So much this. I don't know what it is, it just sounds right. It's not fizzy but it's still savage as fuck.



It's something in the midrange for me. It's unique overall - it's a pickup that sort of sounds "messy" but clear at the same time, there's a snarl to chords when you pick them with authority, and there's a nice sizzle overtop that adds some dirt to the sound but it's not harsh. It's just mean, but not mean in the Nazgul, punishing, pummeling sort of way. What I REALLY like about the BW is how it can do all of this while pulling off some pretty good cleans for a high output humbucker. I have 4 bridge BW's in my herd and it takes all I have not to rip out some of my other pickups to install more BW's. Lol


----------



## KailM

^^^Agreed. It is the holy grail of pickups for me, at least in the bridge. Gnarly, authoritative, and yet musical. Cleans are excellent.


----------



## NosralTserrof

I recorded all the guitar parts on my EP (link in bio) using a KM6 with Black Winters. 

Hands down some of my favorite tones come from that thing.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Made some clips of the Skadi doing teh br00tz. tuned to beadf#b.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/yiy4rkulrstcvdf/blkwinter_mkiv4.flac?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1dy6c62o8qek84w/blkwinter_mkiv12.flac?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/164q1mqlrop9ppc/blkwinter_PTfortinodyi5.flac?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7vhj79b06yw99c2/blkwinter_rosdigRevv120higain.flac?dl=0


----------



## KnightBrolaire

some clips I made (1/2 step down from standard) with Skadi. 
Fortress head: https://www.dropbox.com/s/toiyel5b2t4gwum/blkwinter_fortresskosten.flac?dl=0
Engl Powerball: https://www.dropbox.com/s/goj1upecty0fnvq/blkwinter_pwrball.flac?dl=0
Mesa mark IV: https://www.dropbox.com/s/uvpx9udcuesxa3g/blkwinter_mkivcililab.flac?dl=0
Mark III: https://www.dropbox.com/s/nammzobjjvvkljh/blkwinter_mk3thumas.flac?dl=0
JP2C: https://www.dropbox.com/s/61l50r92begpr0t/blkwinter_jp2cDI2.flac?dl=0


----------



## rexbinary

I finally got my BWs installed into my AW-7! It's going to be a great weekend!


----------



## PunkBillCarson

Dude... That red lettering goes perfect with that guitar. Gotta get some clips of that, man.


----------



## metallifan3091

Finally got a picture of my PRS Tremonti with Black Winters in it.


----------



## Seabeast2000

Have had mine in the old RG570 for a few months, so much fun.
Thanks to @TheShreddinHand for selling these to me.


----------



## Ironbird666

I think I'm going to do it again guys.... I have a Jackson DKMG with EMG's and I'm just not super thrilled with them. It's trans-red with a flame maple top, neck/headstock binding, all the fun Jackson stuff. I'm thinking a set of Zebra BW's would look and sound killer in it. I mean, a 5th guitar with BW's can't hurt right?


----------



## KailM

Ironbird666 said:


> I think I'm going to do it again guys.... I have a Jackson DKMG with EMG's and I'm just not super thrilled with them. It's trans-red with a flame maple top, neck/headstock binding, all the fun Jackson stuff. I'm thinking a set of Zebra BW's would look and sound killer in it. I mean, a 5th guitar with BW's can't hurt right?



You can't go wrong with BWs. For any type of music. I played a Journey cover yesterday with mine and got tons of compliments on my tone. The audience were not 'metal people' either, haha. I'm thinking about picking up a 7-string guitar (finally) and putting a BW set in it. 

Anybody here could chime in to this, but is the 7-string BW set as awesome as the 6-string set?

Oddly, I finally want a 7-string mainly to have access to E-Standard tuning, with the added low B. I don't think I'd tune it lower. I've been doing more and more stuff in E-Standard, but it's a pain to setup my other guitars for E when I normally play in C# Standard or D Standard. Surely I NEED another guitar, right? Help me provide a justification to my wife...


----------



## Ironbird666

I have the 7 string bridge model BW. I dig it quite a bit. It's not exactly the same but overall it's very similar. It's definitely awesome and worthy of the name. haha!


----------



## Seabeast2000

Ironbird666 said:


> I think I'm going to do it again guys.... I have a Jackson DKMG with EMG's and I'm just not super thrilled with them. It's trans-red with a flame maple top, neck/headstock binding, all the fun Jackson stuff. I'm thinking a set of Zebra BW's would look and sound killer in it. I mean, a 5th guitar with BW's can't hurt right?


Do it, and how are you getting zebra BWs? Custom order from dealer?


----------



## Seabeast2000

KailM said:


> You can't go wrong with BWs. For any type of music. I played a Journey cover yesterday with mine and got tons of compliments on my tone. The audience were not 'metal people' either, haha. I'm thinking about picking up a 7-string guitar (finally) and putting a BW set in it.
> 
> Anybody here could chime in to this, but is the 7-string BW set as awesome as the 6-string set?
> 
> Oddly, I finally want a 7-string mainly to have access to E-Standard tuning, with the added low B. I don't think I'd tune it lower. I've been doing more and more stuff in E-Standard, but it's a pain to setup my other guitars for E when I normally play in C# Standard or D Standard. Surely I NEED another guitar, right? Help me provide a justification to my wife...


You will net reduce your expenditure on 6 string sets. Since you will be playing your 6 strings less. WIN.


----------



## Ironbird666

The906 said:


> Do it, and how are you getting zebra BWs? Custom order from dealer?



You can find color options on ebay typically. There are a few dealers who sell floor shop custom versions of most Duncan models available.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

KailM said:


> You can't go wrong with BWs. For any type of music. I played a Journey cover yesterday with mine and got tons of compliments on my tone. The audience were not 'metal people' either, haha. I'm thinking about picking up a 7-string guitar (finally) and putting a BW set in it.
> 
> Anybody here could chime in to this, but is the 7-string BW set as awesome as the 6-string set?
> 
> Oddly, I finally want a 7-string mainly to have access to E-Standard tuning, with the added low B. I don't think I'd tune it lower. I've been doing more and more stuff in E-Standard, but it's a pain to setup my other guitars for E when I normally play in C# Standard or D Standard. Surely I NEED another guitar, right? Help me provide a justification to my wife...


I find the ERG sets of the BW to not work quite as well as the 6 string versions honestly. Some of the things that makes it a badass pickup for a 6 string (the bumped up bass response in particular) doesn't translate well to more strings. The low end gets dark/muddy to an extent and the high output doesn't really help that situation at all.
I kind of want to reinstall the 8 string versions and test them through some different settings/amps just to really confirm my previous experience.


----------



## Smoked Porter

rexbinary said:


> I finally got my BWs installed into my AW-7! It's going to be a great weekend!



AW-7 bros! *Fist bump* That looks great. I still need to get the BW neck


----------



## Smoked Porter

KailM said:


> You can't go wrong with BWs. For any type of music. I played a Journey cover yesterday with mine and got tons of compliments on my tone. The audience were not 'metal people' either, haha. I'm thinking about picking up a 7-string guitar (finally) and putting a BW set in it.
> 
> Anybody here could chime in to this, but is the 7-string BW set as awesome as the 6-string set?
> 
> Oddly, I finally want a 7-string mainly to have access to E-Standard tuning, with the added low B. I don't think I'd tune it lower. I've been doing more and more stuff in E-Standard, but it's a pain to setup my other guitars for E when I normally play in C# Standard or D Standard. Surely I NEED another guitar, right? Help me provide a justification to my wife...



They're pretty similar, I think the 6 string set is slightly more versatile. The 7 seems a bit hotter, maybe a little more compressed. FWIW I tried the 7 first and it's what sent me down the rabbit hole of wanting to put them in most of my guitars, 6 and 7 string.

Edit: saw @KnightBrolaire's response about darkness/muddiness and I would say that hasn't been my experience with the 7 string set, and the AW-7 is a fairly dark guitar. Haven't tried the 8 though.


----------



## PunkBillCarson

KnightBrolaire said:


> I find the ERG sets of the BW to not work quite as well as the 6 string versions honestly. Some of the things that makes it a badass pickup for a 6 string (the bumped up bass response in particular) doesn't translate well to more strings. The low end gets dark/muddy to an extent and the high output doesn't really help that situation at all.
> I kind of want to reinstall the 8 string versions and test them through some different settings/amps just to really confirm my previous experience.




The thing to take into consideration though is your definition of muddy. It's been explained many times, but some of us aren't afraid of a little mud, what's muddy to everyone here is anything less than a cocked wah sound with overbearing mids, so...


----------



## KnightBrolaire

PunkBillCarson said:


> The thing to take into consideration though is your definition of muddy. It's been explained many times, but some of us aren't afraid of a little mud, what's muddy to everyone here is anything less than a cocked wah sound with overbearing mids, so...


I'm not opposed to some mud either, i was just relaying my experience with the black winters. The dark/muddy comment was something i experienced when comparing them with other pickups that i tested with the same guitar/amps/eq/riffs. It's as close to an apples to apples comparison as i could get.


----------



## PunkBillCarson

KnightBrolaire said:


> I'm not opposed to some mud either, i was just relaying my experience with the black winters. The dark/muddy comment was something i experienced when comparing them with other pickups that i tested with the same guitar/amps/eq/riffs. It's as close to an apples to apples comparison as i could get.




Well true, but in your videos I never hear any mud. You do honestly some of the best pickup videos in demonstrating them. Have you done a 7 string Black Winter video? If you did, I didn't catch it.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

PunkBillCarson said:


> Well true, but in your videos I never hear any mud. You do honestly some of the best pickup videos in demonstrating them. Have you done a 7 string Black Winter video? If you did, I didn't catch it.


Thanks, i try to make pretty thorough demos so people get a good idea of how the pickups are voiced. 
No i haven't demoed the 7 string version in a video. The only time i've messed with the 7 string version was at guitar center. I wish i'd demoed the 8 string version back when i had them installed, there's basically no good 8 string demos out there. The 8 string version isn't super dark and muddy by any means, just darker/muddier compared to other pickups i tested. None of what i'm saying really applies to the 6 string, those stay plenty clear down to b1. The 7 string is pfine til about g1 iirc


----------



## KailM

PunkBillCarson said:


> The thing to take into consideration though is your definition of muddy. It's been explained many times, but some of us aren't afraid of a little mud, what's muddy to everyone here is anything less than a cocked wah sound with overbearing mids, so...



This is true. I typically have quite a bit of bass in my tone, and absolutely don't need hyper-clarity on big chords. I want a ferocious, angry, yet warm wall of distortion, and that's exactly what the BWs supply on my 6-string tuned anywhere from drop-B to E Standard.

I also like my Nazgul and have heard the 7-string version is even better. So that could be an option as well. Lol, I talk about this like I have the guitar already.


----------



## PunkBillCarson

KailM said:


> This is true. I typically have quite a bit of bass in my tone, and absolutely don't need hyper-clarity on big chords. I want a ferocious, angry, yet warm wall of distortion, and that's exactly what the BWs supply on my 6-string tuned anywhere from drop-B to E Standard.
> 
> I also like my Nazgul and have heard the 7-string version is even better. So that could be an option as well. Lol, I talk about this like I have the guitar already.




I was actually thinking of getting the new PRS SVN Black Cherry and putting Black Winters in it. That's where my question came in about the coil-splitting awhile back.


----------



## Smoked Porter

PunkBillCarson said:


> I was actually thinking of getting the new PRS SVN Black Cherry and putting Black Winters in it. That's where my question came in about the coil-splitting awhile back.


Me too. I keep bouncing back and forth between the red and black. With my luck, they'll make a nice purple or trampas green one a few months after I pick one though.


----------



## KailM

PunkBillCarson said:


> *I was actually thinking of getting the new PRS SVN* Black Cherry and putting Black Winters in it. That's where my question came in about the coil-splitting awhile back.



Me too. My local store has a PRS SVN in grey, which I really like. Here's what that one looks like: https://www.sweetwater.com/store/de...cTDP82vW7IlQgPyxl_xW1_6ygfCgjfsBoCJvIQAvD_BwE

I played it briefly and thought it played very well. I must admit, for as long as I've been a member here, I've never owned a 7-string guitar and haven't even played them more than a handful of times. I might even trade one of my 6-strings and an amp in for that PRS. I don't think I'd ever go beyond standard tuning (E-Standard with the added low-B 7th string). It would be exclusively so that I could play E-standard stuff but still have that low-B for death metal. So whatever pickups I end up putting in it would not need to handle anything lower than B.

Coil splitting is awesome. It basically adds a few more clean channels to your amp.


----------



## PunkBillCarson

^Yeah that was my intention for the low b as well. That way I can play Emperor AND At The Gates on one guitar.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

PunkBillCarson said:


> ^Yeah that was my intention for the low b as well. That way I can play Emperor AND At The Gates on one guitar.


you could just get a baritone 6 string. I've got 2 that i have tuned beadf#b right now and they kill for entombed riffs.


----------



## PunkBillCarson

Yeah but I want the entire range of E standard though just in case I want to do some other E standard stuff.


----------



## KailM

PunkBillCarson said:


> ^Yeah that was my intention for the low b as well. That way I can play Emperor AND At The Gates on one guitar.



That is literally EXACTLY why I want a 7-string.


----------



## PunkBillCarson

Anyone tried the 6 string versions in basswood? I'm selling the guitar that my Black Winters are in, and I've got the idea of putting them in my Ibanez Iron Label.


----------



## JD27

PunkBillCarson said:


> Anyone tried the 6 string versions in basswood? I'm selling the guitar that my Black Winters are in, and I've got the idea of putting them in my Ibanez Iron Label.



I would think they would work quite well, Keith Merrow used a JP-6 for this video when they first came out.


----------



## Seabeast2000

PunkBillCarson said:


> Anyone tried the 6 string versions in basswood? I'm selling the guitar that my Black Winters are in, and I've got the idea of putting them in my Ibanez Iron Label.



Do it. Basswood below.


----------



## KailM

Enjoy: https://soundcloud.com/kailm-1/blood-of-deliverance-a-dying-breed


----------



## Rizzo

Just checking in for a questions to you users, since I've seen some comparisons in the very first pages.

Gimmicks aside, isn't the BW just a revoiced/different EQ'ed Distortion? That's what I always perceived since its launch.
Like a "grimier" Distortion, while the Nazgul is the "djentier" (think modern cocked wah, djent voicing) Distortion? I'd just like some info about the actual differences between the 3.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Rizzo said:


> Just checking in for a questions to you users, since I've seen some comparisons in the very first pages.
> 
> Gimmicks aside, isn't the BW just a revoiced/different EQ'ed Distortion? That's what I always perceived since its launch.
> Like a "grimier" Distortion, while the Nazgul is the "djentier" (think modern cocked wah, djent voicing) Distortion? I'd just like some info about the actual differences between the 3.


the black winter is probably closer to a mix of the custom 5 and the distortion. nazgul is more nasal/upper mid focused and feels like a jb/distortion mix imo.


----------



## Shask

KnightBrolaire said:


> the black winter is probably closer to a mix of the custom 5 and the distortion. nazgul is more nasal/upper mid focused and feels like a jb/distortion mix imo.


I have always felt like the BW bridge was kind of like a mix of an improved Distortion/Invader, with tighter lows, and less fizzy highs. It is almost like a low/hi band-limited Invader.


----------



## jonsick

Well I've just made the plunge and taking the SD Black Winters OUT of my guitar....

So I installed the BW set into my Jackson Broderick 7 string pretty much as soon as I got it. I rocked that for about 2-3 years in gigs, recordings and all the rest. I then upgrade to an E-II Arrow-7 which has the EMG 57/66 set. Thought I don't love the 57/66, I felt far far more at home with the EMGs in the Arrow-7 than I did with the Black Winters. I ordered up a couple of EMG 81-7/85-7 sets. I first replaced the pickups in the Arrow-7 with the 81-7/85-7 and it is just completely me now. No 18v mods, no nothing, just straight up EMG sounds.

I have my Jackson in right now getting the pickups swapped over (need to modify the pickup routes for the 81-7 and 85-7).

Why the change

Well in my two years experience I have using the guitar on a near daily basis, a few things irked me about the pickups. First, I like smooth tones (I'm a lover of 80s guitarists, EVH and the like). I always found that riffing could sometimes get a bit muddy and despite various EQ tricks and boosts, I could never really dial that out.

That said the clean tones were stellar. The neck pickup has some really lovely tones and as my band does use clean on the semi regular, this is one thing I will miss, especially when split. Comparing to the EMGs in the Arrow in conjunction with my main amp (Peavey 6505+) clean tones need regular checking and EQing to the venue in question. Coaxing a good clean from the 6505+ is difficult in itself, but still doable. While the 85-7 cleans aren't as nice, they will do. I tend to use a good dab of reverb and chorus so can cover it up a little more.

Ultimately, I like my squealies. Pinch harmonics and tremolo abuse is my main style and I just felt that the BWs were just a little too muddy overall (in this guitar) to get where I really wanted to go. As my Jackson is now effectively my backup guitar, it will tend to stay on my guitar stand as my main writing guitar, with the Arrow-7 living in the case until rehearsal and recording time (just easier to sit down with it). Hence I'm looking forward to getting it back with the EMGs loaded in there.

In fairness, throughout my playing life, I've back-and-forth'd between passives and EMGs. There are some guitars I have where the EMGs just really don't work nicely. I've also come to learn through playing my 6-strings, I tend to prefer the sound of guitars with pickup rings as opposed to direct mounts. One example being an Ibanez I modified; I had originally placed the replacement bridge EMGs where the Dimarzios were but upon buying the neck pickup, discovered the neck route was again too small. I asked the tech to use pickup rings and the guitar went from muddy to clear and bright instantly. It's just my tone I think and pickup rings seem to enable that for me.

So all in all, the Black Winters have been fun, but there was enough that I didn't like about then to make me change up. I'm an EMG guy, time to just bloody well admit it!


----------



## KailM

^^^It's good to know your tastes. Ultimately I think pickup choices come down to how they interact with the rest of your rig and perhaps more importantly, your hands.


----------



## Vyn

jonsick said:


> Well I've just made the plunge and taking the SD Black Winters OUT of my guitar....
> 
> So I installed the BW set into my Jackson Broderick 7 string pretty much as soon as I got it. I rocked that for about 2-3 years in gigs, recordings and all the rest. I then upgrade to an E-II Arrow-7 which has the EMG 57/66 set. Thought I don't love the 57/66, I felt far far more at home with the EMGs in the Arrow-7 than I did with the Black Winters. I ordered up a couple of EMG 81-7/85-7 sets. I first replaced the pickups in the Arrow-7 with the 81-7/85-7 and it is just completely me now. No 18v mods, no nothing, just straight up EMG sounds.
> 
> I have my Jackson in right now getting the pickups swapped over (need to modify the pickup routes for the 81-7 and 85-7).
> 
> Why the change
> 
> Well in my two years experience I have using the guitar on a near daily basis, a few things irked me about the pickups. First, I like smooth tones (I'm a lover of 80s guitarists, EVH and the like). I always found that riffing could sometimes get a bit muddy and despite various EQ tricks and boosts, I could never really dial that out.
> 
> That said the clean tones were stellar. The neck pickup has some really lovely tones and as my band does use clean on the semi regular, this is one thing I will miss, especially when split. Comparing to the EMGs in the Arrow in conjunction with my main amp (Peavey 6505+) clean tones need regular checking and EQing to the venue in question. Coaxing a good clean from the 6505+ is difficult in itself, but still doable. While the 85-7 cleans aren't as nice, they will do. I tend to use a good dab of reverb and chorus so can cover it up a little more.
> 
> Ultimately, I like my squealies. Pinch harmonics and tremolo abuse is my main style and I just felt that the BWs were just a little too muddy overall (in this guitar) to get where I really wanted to go. As my Jackson is now effectively my backup guitar, it will tend to stay on my guitar stand as my main writing guitar, with the Arrow-7 living in the case until rehearsal and recording time (just easier to sit down with it). Hence I'm looking forward to getting it back with the EMGs loaded in there.
> 
> In fairness, throughout my playing life, I've back-and-forth'd between passives and EMGs. There are some guitars I have where the EMGs just really don't work nicely. I've also come to learn through playing my 6-strings, I tend to prefer the sound of guitars with pickup rings as opposed to direct mounts. One example being an Ibanez I modified; I had originally placed the replacement bridge EMGs where the Dimarzios were but upon buying the neck pickup, discovered the neck route was again too small. I asked the tech to use pickup rings and the guitar went from muddy to clear and bright instantly. It's just my tone I think and pickup rings seem to enable that for me.
> 
> So all in all, the Black Winters have been fun, but there was enough that I didn't like about then to make me change up. I'm an EMG guy, time to just bloody well admit it!



That's really interesting because I found that I could abuse pinch harmonics and trem bullshit more easily with the Black Winters. Be interested to see your technique!


----------



## PunkBillCarson

Vyn said:


> That's really interesting because I found that I could abuse pinch harmonics and trem bullshit more easily with the Black Winters. Be interested to see your technique!




Yeah I have to say, I'm a bit skeptical. Pinch harmonics to me were absolutely effortless and if there's one thing I could never describe the Black Winter itself as, it's muddy.


----------



## jonsick

Vyn said:


> That's really interesting because I found that I could abuse pinch harmonics and trem bullshit more easily with the Black Winters. Be interested to see your technique!





PunkBillCarson said:


> Yeah I have to say, I'm a bit skeptical. Pinch harmonics to me were absolutely effortless and if there's one thing I could never describe the Black Winter itself as, it's muddy.



I'll qualify these if I possibly can. The guitar in question is a Jackson Pro Series Broderick 7 string. When I first got the guitar, they had the Chris Broderick Dimarzios. I also noted the guitar was a maple neck through mahogany body. Now in my experience, maple and mahogany rarely make good bedfellows - I built one guitar like that and owned another and noted that they were both quite dead sounding. The Jackson was no exception. However given my budget at the time and my requirement for 25.5" scale and a floyd, it was the best option.

Overall I like how the guitar played but given the wood options, I realised it was inherently VERY dark. I figured the Black Winters would brighten things up and get that low B a little tighter. I wasn't entirely incorrect, they helped a lot, but overall hasn't quite done the ticket. 

So my guess is that maybe in a guitar that isn't so dark I'd have had better results? I've pretty much decided to not sell them on and rather keep them for a possible future candidate. But for that guitar (maybe?) they just didn't work out for me.

I do have higher hopes for the EMGs, I won't get the guitar back until tomorrow to report.

As for pinch harmonics technique, I'll just defend slightly in saying I'm happy I know how to do them. I've been playing long enough and no problem on other guitars, including my E-II Arrow 7. 

Ultimately I am interested to play some BWs in another guitar, but I will admit to something else. When I bought the BWs, I did get caught up into the hype surrounding them. I had no idea that they were based off of the Duncan Super Distortion. I've never been a fan of the Super Distortion, I've always found them too brittle sounding for me. If I'd have known that, I possibly wouldn't have bought them. But hey ho. Either way, I'm confident the EMGs will do the job for me. Most of my guitar arsenal has EMGs despite me going back and forth between those and various passives throughout the years. I just seem to be happiest with the good ol' 81/85 combo in general.


----------



## PunkBillCarson

Well first things's first... Duncan didn't make the Super Distortion, DiMarzio did. I guess it could be a combination of your woods, but I have the BW set installed in my Epiphone Goldtop tuned down to B standard and I have to say, it has no problem cutting through and that's with a 60 for the low B which some might refer to as too floppy, not to mention the 24.75 scale in theory shouldn't help. I would say try them in another guitar. What amp are you using? I'm sorry if you already mentioned, I just woke up. LOL


----------



## jonsick

PunkBillCarson said:


> Well first things's first... Duncan didn't make the Super Distortion, DiMarzio did. I guess it could be a combination of your woods, but I have the BW set installed in my Epiphone Goldtop tuned down to B standard and I have to say, it has no problem cutting through and that's with a 60 for the low B which some might refer to as too floppy, not to mention the 24.75 scale in theory shouldn't help. I would say try them in another guitar. What amp are you using? I'm sorry if you already mentioned, I just woke up. LOL



Sorry I did mean the Duncan Distortion. I love the DiMarzio Super Distortion. Sorry for the error.

I would tend to agree it's more the woods used on the Jackson. I'm hoping the EMGs will do the trick.

Amps are numerous. My main one is the Peavey 6505+, but I also run lots of Marshalls. To name, TSL100, JVM410h, JCM900, Jubillee 2555x and a Mesa Dual Rec. 

I don't think cutting through was the problem, it could cut through fine. I recorded an album using the Jackson and it came out fine. My main issue was the pinch harmonics were difficult to get out and I found the overall tone seemed muddy in comparison to other guitars. While it's not reasonable to say the exact same settings same amp another guitar was better as I've never believed in that ideology as every guitar is different, my USA Jacksons and ESPs do everything fine. But they are maple through alder affairs with EMGs. And 6 strings not 7. So OK it isn't a fair comparison for me to make, but I guess I'm just an EMG guy ahh spose haha. 

That said, the BW set will probably sit until I try them in another (future) guitar. That won't be anytime soon, but still interested to definitely see that the EMGs do definitely solve the problem. We shall see.


----------



## jonsick

I got the guitar back. I have to say, it's a night and day difference to me. Just been playing it for the past hour and for me the EMGs do indeed work ten million times better. The guy seemed to wire a tone knob that I don't really need so I will take that off, but hey all in all, happy happy!


----------



## Tisca

Swapped the EMG 81 for a Black Winter on my RR24M. EMGs have their place but a BW is so much better in this guitar at least.


----------



## Steinmetzify

Chucked a BW into my new Charvel, replacing the JB for drop B.

You guys should have told me about this thing years ago, damn you


----------



## Shask

steinmetzify said:


> View attachment 64174
> Chucked a BW into my new Charvel, replacing the JB for drop B.
> 
> You guys should have told me about this thing years ago, damn you


I did.... but you didn't listen, lol.

It is one of my favorite passive pickups right now. It is the perfect amount of chug, balanced with a good amount of clarity.


----------



## Steinmetzify

Shask said:


> I did.... but you didn't listen, lol.
> 
> It is one of my favorite passive pickups right now. It is the perfect amount of chug, balanced with a good amount of clarity.



I don’t get it, what are you saying, that I don’t listen?!

Should’ve listened lol

You’re right. To me it’s the Fishman Modern version of a passive; so chunky/chuggy but I can hear everything.

What were you saying? I wasn’t listening...

You got any other advice? Should I buy a Schecter or anything?

Dude you know what’s interesting to me?

Got a buddy that’s an 81/Blackout DIEHARD fan...he won’t play anything else, he HATED all the BKPs I showed him, hated the Distortion, hated the D-Activator etc etc...

Dude fuckin LOVED and I mean straight up LOVED the McCarty pickups I had in my 99 and that I later chucked into my LP; literally begged me to sell them to him. Only passives I’ve liked better have been this BW.

It’s GOOD.


----------



## Shask

steinmetzify said:


> I don’t get it, what are you saying, that I don’t listen?!
> 
> Should’ve listened lol
> 
> You’re right. To me it’s the Fishman Modern version of a passive; so chunky/chuggy but I can hear everything.
> 
> What were you saying? I wasn’t listening...
> 
> You got any other advice? Should I buy a Schecter or anything?
> 
> Dude you know what’s interesting to me?
> 
> Got a buddy that’s an 81/Blackout DIEHARD fan...he won’t play anything else, he HATED all the BKPs I showed him, hated the Distortion, hated the D-Activator etc etc...
> 
> Dude fuckin LOVED and I mean straight up LOVED the McCarty pickups I had in my 99 and that I later chucked into my LP; literally begged me to sell them to him. Only passives I’ve liked better have been this BW.
> 
> It’s GOOD.


I haven't tried those PRS pickups, but I am sure the BW is completely different since PRS pickups are not very high output. The BWs to me sound like a tweaked Distortion/Invader mix, that has more clarity, and is band-passed (high and low cut), to give them more clarity. I feel like they are the best compromise of all of the other Duncan pickups.... they have the best parts of the others, without the annoying parts.

Yes, I have been mostly playing my BWs in my Kiesel, and my Fishman Moderns in my SE Floyd. I have been loving both for now. Considering getting another set of one of them for my other PRS SE.

Yes, Schecters are always good, lol.


----------



## Steinmetzify

Shask said:


> I haven't tried those PRS pickups, but I am sure the BW is completely different since PRS pickups are not very high output. The BWs to me sound like a tweaked Distortion/Invader mix, that has more clarity, and is band-passed (high and low cut), to give them more clarity. I feel like they are the best compromise of all of the other Duncan pickups.... they have the best parts of the others, without the annoying parts.
> 
> Yes, I have been mostly playing my BWs in my Kiesel, and my Fishman Moderns in my SE Floyd. I have been loving both for now. Considering getting another set of one of them for my other PRS SE.
> 
> Yes, Schecters are always good, lol.



Dude....he's a MEGA HIGH GAIN/OUTPUT guy...the PRSs are low output, but what that means is it's the first time he could hear what he was playing in years LMAO...that's why he dug em. I've told him for literally years to turn down his gain but he won't listen...


----------



## Shask

steinmetzify said:


> Dude....he's a MEGA HIGH GAIN/OUTPUT guy...the PRSs are low output, but what that means is it's the first time he could hear what he was playing in years LMAO...that's why he dug em. I've told him for literally years to turn down his gain but he won't listen...


I find I tend to prefer high output pickups... I just like the consistency in the pick attack from the compression. I don't like it all squashed though. I think that is why I like the Black Winter. It is like they have enough compression to have a strong pick attack, but un-compressed enough to have low end chug.

I use too much gain also, lol. I find I use even more on digital units than analog units.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

How close is the Black Winter to the Fishman Modern Voice 2? I watched a video in Youtube (black metal demo) that compares them both. Sounds around the same ballpark but I couldn't hear too well since the drums were louder in the mix. Anyone who has experience with both care to elaborate?


----------



## Tisca

Is this a custom job with murdered out look or what's going on?



steinmetzify said:


> View attachment 64174
> Chucked a BW into my new Charvel, replacing the JB for drop B.
> 
> You guys should have told me about this thing years ago, damn you


----------



## FitRocker33

Looks to me like the “blackened” black winter. That thing is killer. I’m contemplating getting one with white bobbins and black bolts from the shop floor custom thing.


----------



## Steinmetzify

Tisca said:


> Is this a custom job with murdered out look or what's going on?



Nah, it came stock in a buddy’s LTD Metal axe, he flipped it to me.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

MASS DEFECT said:


> How close is the Black Winter to the Fishman Modern Voice 2? I watched a video in Youtube (black metal demo) that compares them both. Sounds around the same ballpark but I couldn't hear too well since the drums were louder in the mix. Anyone who has experience with both care to elaborate?


moderns are clearer and generally brighter ime. v2 has a good amount of low end and chugs like a mofo, just like the black winters. They have different midranges ime. Moderns are far less grindy (v2 is slightly scooped iirc), and the black winters have a bit of hair on the high end comparatively.


----------



## Steinmetzify

KnightBrolaire said:


> moderns are clearer and generally brighter ime. v2 has a good amount of low end and chugs like a mofo, just like the black winters. They have different midranges ime. Moderns are far less grindy (v2 is slightly scooped iirc), and the black winters have a bit of hair on the high end comparatively.



This guy knows his stuff. I have them both in 25.5” scale guitars and this description is pretty much dead on.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Thanks guys! I feel so dumb for selling my Black Winter without doing a proper A/B with the Fluence pups I have now. But I miss that grind down the mids. It's sort of thick like an Invader but not as huge. The Invader is my fave Duncan pickup. But the Black Winter is clearer and tighter.


----------



## Tisca

MASS DEFECT said:


> that grind down the mids


I know exactly what you're talking about and I'm sure I'm not alone.


----------



## Shask

MASS DEFECT said:


> Thanks guys! I feel so dumb for selling my Black Winter without doing a proper A/B with the Fluence pups I have now. But I miss that grind down the mids. It's sort of thick like an Invader but not as huge. The Invader is my fave Duncan pickup. But the Black Winter is clearer and tighter.


I keep saying I think the Black Winter sounds like a tweaked Distortion/Invader mix, that has been low passed and high passed to be clearer.


----------



## Glades

Did you guys notice that the new LTD Viper 7 has blackened black winters? I have never seen the blackened variant in 7 strings. I hope they market these. Look nicer than the gloss std 7 version.


----------



## Tisca

Glades said:


> Did you guys notice that the new LTD Viper 7 has blackened black winters? I have never seen the blackened variant in 7 strings. I hope they market these. Look nicer than the gloss std 7 version.



All 3 Black Metal Ltd's have these. That's how I accidentally found this pickup and had to buy one.


----------



## Glades

Tisca said:


> All 3 Black Metal Ltd's have these. That's how I accidentally found this pickup and had to buy one.



Yes. KM-6's had them too. But this is the first time I see them on 7's.


----------



## episode666

Recently put a set in my 95. LPC, made a little gallery:
https://ivanmatkovi.pixieset.com/g/winterhascome-alovestory/

LPC+BW+Kraken=Win


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

So I got one coming in today. Gonna give it a shot again because I'm assuming the last one I got was a fluke. Either the guitar was dead or I got a fucked up pickup. It was so dark and not bright at all. Extremely muddy.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

So I got one coming in today. Gonna give it a shot again because I'm assuming the last one I got was a fluke. Either the guitar was dead or I got a fucked up pickup. It was so dark and not bright at all. Extremely muddy.


----------



## KailM

Before: 

IMG_4057 (1) by Joe Blow, on Flickr

After: 

IMG_4219 by Joe Blow, on Flickr

 

The difference this made is indescribable. I actually moved this pup from my explorer, which, despite having a TOM bridge can actually make use of trembucker spacing. So I've got a BW trembucker bridge on order, lol.

I've had the guitar about 3 weeks now and quickly grew out of the stock pups. They are dull, lifeless, and gutless. This thing _slays so hard_ now...

Every aspect of the tone is better, including cleans. Palm-muted chugs slam you in the gut without prejudice. Mids grind like no other. It's actually a tad darker in this guitar on first listen. Darker guitar, I guess. That said, I'm running it straight into my 5153's red channel without a boost, and have presence below halfway and treble barely above noon. I have more brightness on tap than I'll need, if it comes to that. Can't wait to try it in my 6505. 

I bought this guitar to play old-school metal and classic rock, but today all I was able to get out of it was black metal...


----------



## PunkBillCarson

That guitar is gorgeous.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Okay, so I finally got the BW installed in my LTD H3.

I was in love at first, but I noticed the stock SH-14 pickup was a bit... too much on both ends. Too much lows, too much highs, not enough mids. Made things muddy. Sooo yeah.

Conclusion?

That first Black Winter-loaded guitar I got must have been fucked up somehow, because holy shit this transformed the guitar.  It's perfect now. The low end is UBER tight, the midrange is snarly as fuck, and the high end is just enough to add some snap to the attack. This is basically what I wanted from the Super Distortion down to the T. Made my Horizon III into my best sounding guitar BY FAR.


----------



## gunch

Are there any good demos how these sound with krallice-style fast strumming and tremolo lines?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Hows the BW neck compare to the Jazz?


----------



## feraledge

silverabyss said:


> Are there any good demos how these sound with krallice-style fast strumming and tremolo lines?


Haven't listened to it in a while and no time to search, but isn't this what Merrow's OG demo was? If you say "Krallice-style" though, the answer is BW. SD really played to the right crowd on this one, turns out it's just killer for a lot of reasons.


----------



## BadSeed

I finally got my hands on a second Black Winter last week, and dropped it in my 2003 Gibson LP Classic. I'm not writing the pickup off, because I have yet to find a pickup that I really love in this guitar. The low end and low mids on the guitar are a bit on the dark side, and the Black Winter seems to enhance this, but I'm also not used to ceramic mag pickups, and I feel like this is part of the sound of the ceramic vs alnico V.

I recently bought an EC1000VB and am wanting to swap out the EMG's, so I may try it in that guitar to see if it fits a little better.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Hows the BW neck compare to the Jazz?



Anyone?  Kinda curious about the BW neck pickup.


----------



## JK-PA

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Anyone?  Kinda curious about the BW neck pickup.


Who needs a neck pickup anyway


----------



## KailM

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Anyone?  Kinda curious about the BW neck pickup.



I'm probably going to order either a Jazz or Sentient neck later this winter. The Black Winter neck is the only real "nice" aftermarket pickup I've ever owned outside of owning a Blackout AHB1 set in one of my guitars, so I can't objectively compare it to many others (I like it a lot better than the Blackout neck though, fwiw.)

To me, the BW neck is phenomenal at high-gain leads high up on the neck. I believe it would give a Dimarzio Liquifire a run for its money. When tuned higher, I can get a very convincing Slash tone. It's awesome for shreddy stuff as well, and searing, creamy Gilmour type leads.

Its cleans are warm with a little sparkle, but not too much. At times, I feel it has a tad too much bass. The clean tone I get with both BWs combined is amazing, IMO, split or full-humbucking. I don't find myself using it by itself all that often, except for high-gain.

Here's a song I did that kind of runs the gamut of tones. I annotated it in Soundcloud to try to share what I was using when. All of the cleans are Black Winter neck or BW neck + bridge; sometimes split, sometimes full. The leads in the opening heavy part before the interlude are Black Winter neck as well. I think the leads I did at the end of the song are Nazgul; can't remember. Hope this helps: https://soundcloud.com/kailm-1/blood-of-deliverance-a-dying-breed


----------



## Shask

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Anyone?  Kinda curious about the BW neck pickup.


I really like the BW neck. I dont have a Jazz, but I have a Sentient. I typically find Duncan neck pickups to be kind of mid scooped. They sound good for cleans, and RATM type tones, but not so much for the smooth, shredder type thing Dimarzio neck pickups tend to be better at. The BW neck tends to be more mid heavy, and smoother, so I get more of that wannabe shredder feeling like I get from Dimarzio pickups.


----------



## AkiraSpectrum

Shask said:


> I really like the BW neck. I dont have a Jazz, but I have a Sentient. I typically find Duncan neck pickups to be kind of mid scooped. They sound good for cleans, and RATM type tones, but not so much for the smooth, shredder type thing Dimarzio neck pickups tend to be better at. The BW neck tends to be more mid heavy, and smoother, so I get more of that wannabe shredder feeling like I get from Dimarzio pickups.


I haven't played a BW Neck, but I agree with you on your description of the typical Duncan and Dimarzio neck pickup.


----------



## TheShreddinHand

Shask said:


> I really like the BW neck. I dont have a Jazz, but I have a Sentient. I typically find Duncan neck pickups to be kind of mid scooped. They sound good for cleans, and RATM type tones, but not so much for the smooth, shredder type thing Dimarzio neck pickups tend to be better at. The BW neck tends to be more mid heavy, and smoother, so I get more of that wannabe shredder feeling like I get from Dimarzio pickups.



Spot on. The 59 and Jazz I had were great for cleans as mentioned but I didn't like them as much for the shreddy stuff with distortion. Enter the BW to cover all bases.


----------



## ToneLab

To me the BW neck sits between the Jazz that is too thin and the 59 that is too fat. The BW is my fav SD neck pup. Very playable, and isn't night and day from bridge pup so you can transition easily. It shreds and it can be fat and creamy.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Actually doesn't sound like the BW neck is what I'm looking for then. I dig the kinda scooped, bright single-coily sound ala Tom Morello. So I guess I'll keep the Jazz.


----------



## Shask

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Actually doesn't sound like the BW neck is what I'm looking for then. I dig the kinda scooped, bright single-coily sound ala Tom Morello. So I guess I'll keep the Jazz.


I love my Sentient, coil tapped, for those RATM Drop-D sounds!


----------



## Headache

I fokin LOVE mine!


----------



## 600wheelies

Hey guys, wondering if the BW is what I’m looking for. I have an ibanez rgr621xebc, ash body with a maple neck and ebony fretboard, it has stock quantum 6 pickups that I’m not a huge fan of, sort of a twangy brittle high end (maybe too bright?) I play mostly hard rock to metal core to prog rock (drop D to drop B). August burns red, lamb of god, porcupine tree type stuff even some ambient cleans so versatility is a must. How would the BW stack up? Or if you guys can recommend something different. Thanks!


----------



## dhgrind

If anyone has some single coil neck recommendations to pair with the Black Winter that'd be fantastic.


----------



## PunkBillCarson

dhgrind said:


> If anyone has some single coil neck recommendations to pair with the Black Winter that'd be fantastic.




You should get a single coil Half Winter made.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

PunkBillCarson said:


> You should get a single coil Half Winter made.



White Winter?
Short Winter?
Half-Black Winter?
Grey Winter?
Dogwood Winter?
Blackberry Winter?


----------



## Blytheryn

PunkBillCarson said:


> You should get a single coil Half Winter made.



They’ve made them before. It’s a custom thing, but come on wouldn’t it be sick?


----------



## PunkBillCarson

Blytheryn said:


> They’ve made them before. It’s a custom thing, but come on wouldn’t it be sick?




I haven't heard them. I wonder how they are for cleans.


----------



## Seabeast2000

Lackwin


----------



## KailM

PunkBillCarson said:


> I haven't heard them. I wonder how they are for cleans.



Mine sound awesome split; I think a dedicated single coil BW would as well. Split, the BW neck has a nice chimey, bell-like tone.


----------



## Seabeast2000

LeviathanKiller said:


> White Winter?
> Short Winter?
> Half-Black Winter?
> Grey Winter?
> Dogwood Winter?
> Blackberry Winter?


Mini winnie


----------



## Crash Dandicoot

Think they'd be a good option for a fairly dark sounding (walnut body + neck) guitar?


----------



## Seabeast2000

PunkBillCarson said:


> I haven't heard them. I wonder how they are for cleans.


https://www.jemsite.com/forums/f35/npd-sd-black-winter-custom-single-coil-140329.html


----------



## dhgrind

Black winter bridge and a frostbite neck


----------



## PunkBillCarson

dhgrind said:


> Black winter bridge and a frostbite neck




I like the way you think!


----------



## failsafe

LeviathanKiller said:


> White Winter?
> Short Winter?
> Half-Black Winter?
> Grey Winter?
> Dogwood Winter?
> Blackberry Winter?


 Black Autumn


----------



## AkiraSpectrum

7stringstohangyouwith said:


> I've been wondering about the Black Winter humbucker pickups by Seymour Duncan as well. I wonder why the ESP LTD "Black Metal" guitar series only had a single bridge Black Winter humbucker?
> 
> I've looked into the Seymour Duncan website to get a comparison chart of how the other "extreme metal" pickups were (chart-wise) and they almost all seem very similar in specs on paper. I'm guessing it's all marketing. I've considered the Nazgul/Sentient as well but people have told me that the Nazgul/Pegasus is the better of the two.



The Black Winter is only really similar to Duncan's other typical offerings in its DC resistance (same as JB and Distortion). I guess its similar to the Distortion in terms of its 'EQ chart', but those are very simplistic approximations of their EQ curves.

The Black Winter is pretty highly regarded on this forum and I've heard lots of good things about it, especially for extreme and black metal styles.

The BW is most similar to the Distortion but it uses 3 large ceramic magnets instead of 1 large ceramic like the Distortion. The specs on the Duncan website also don't specify the type of wire, gauge, or the symmetry of the wind between the two coils, or the makeup of the ceramic magnet(s) or any mods done to those magnets, etc.

Pickups, because they are fairly simple pieces of technology, vary mostly only by a handful of factors, but these small differences have the potential to make some pretty large differences (although not always).

Pickup preferences are largely subjective; however, I'm sure BW's are more highly regarded by the typical extreme metal player than the Nazgul or Pegasus. Although I've seen a number of people who like the Nazgul for extreme metal as well. The Pegasus is a fairly moderate output humbucker that excels at Progressive styles (in my opinion), but can also do metal stuff through the right amp and with the right settings (like any other pickup).


----------



## dhgrind

failsafe said:


> Black Autumn



Dark ritual


----------



## AkiraSpectrum

7stringstohangyouwith said:


> Since Black Metal isn't known for the use of 7 stringed guitars (like the nu metal genre is known for), would anyone here not even suggest Black Winter for 7 stringed guitars? I have both a 6 and a 7 string guitar.



You won't know if you'll like something until you try it out yourself, as only you can determine what is the appropriate sound for yourself. 

I am not overly familiar with the black metal genre so I'm not sure how often 7's are used, but I'm sure the BW pickups would still be the most 'logical' option for a 7-string pickup.


----------



## KailM

7stringstohangyouwith said:


> Since Black Metal isn't known for the use of 7 stringed guitars (like the nu metal genre is known for), would anyone here not even suggest Black Winter for 7 stringed guitars? I have both a 6 and a 7 string guitar.



It's not, like, limited to black metal man. So yes, I'd recommend it for 7 string guitars too. Assuming the 7-string version is voiced similarly to the 6, there may be better options if you're tuning even lower than B-Standard with your 7.

I've had my 6-string guitars as low as drop B with real heavy strings and the BW is still extremely brutal in that tuning. My Nazgul-equipped guitar is noticeably clearer in B though, because it has a more sculpted low end. Personally, I like the sound of both of them.

If you're doing the drop-G flat sillyness that all the djent kiddies are doing these days, then, no, the Black Winters aren't ideal. They sound far too much like real guitar tone with actual balls and low-end as opposed to the typical Donald Duck voicing popular in that genre.

Also, who says black metal can't be played on a 7? I almost bought one recently but ultimately bought another 6. I do play BM primarily and have done quite a few songs in drop C and C# Standard. I'm planning to do some in B as well. That's well in the range of what one might do with a 7.


----------



## AdenM

So I've got a PRS SE Singlecut (Mahog, maple cap) with a BW bridge, stock neck, but I'm pretty sure I've shorted the neck pickup - what do you all think a good neck pairing would be? Open to interesting suggestions like humbucker sized P90s, etc.


----------



## ToneLab

AdenM said:


> So I've got a PRS SE Singlecut (Mahog, maple cap) with a BW bridge, stock neck, but I'm pretty sure I've shorted the neck pickup - what do you all think a good neck pairing would be? Open to interesting suggestions like humbucker sized P90s, etc.



The BW neck pup is awesome. That is what I'd put in


----------



## AdenM

That would be the most straightforward solution! I guess I'll keep an eye out for one. That guitar is kind of my random project/throw interesting things in it piece, so I guess another BW wasn't the first thing I had in mind, lol. Thanks!


----------



## PunkBillCarson

Does anyone know if Seymour Duncan can do translucent pickups? Thought about getting some blue translucent Black Winters and having them called The Night King (after Game of Thrones.)


----------



## Zoobiedood

PunkBillCarson said:


> Does anyone know if Seymour Duncan can do translucent pickups? Thought about getting some blue translucent Black Winters and having them called The Night King (after Game of Thrones.)


They can, but through their Custom Shop.


----------



## PunkBillCarson

Zoobiedood said:


> They can, but through their Custom Shop.



All I needed to hear. Thank you!


----------



## TheUnknownOne

I just installed a BW bridge in place of the TB6 I had in my LTD MH400 and I'm very impressed ! It has the punch of the TB6 yet the clarity of a Duncan Custom. Reminds me of a fishman modern sometimes. Really balanced and defined around the spectrum, whereas the TB6 was sometimes a bit harsh/fizzy on the high notes.

Btw it is paired with a Liquifire neck, and both are matching perfectly !


----------



## chopeth

TheUnknownOne said:


> Btw it is paired with a Liquifire neck, and both are matching perfectly !



That's how I've got it too!


----------



## Sumsar

More Blackwinter stuff:



Guitar is mahogany with maple neckthrough, with floyd rose bridge.
I think someone asked about the 7 string version a couple of pages back which is what I use here, and honestly I think they are some of the best 7 string pickups I have tried, and I have been through most of the Dimarzio catalog and a couple from the seymour duncan lineup.

Does it djent? I don't think so, but I guess you can EQ anything so quack like a duck, so I am sure it can pull of a decent attempt if that is what you want, but it is probably not the go-to for that.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

Sumsar said:


> More Blackwinter stuff:
> 
> 
> 
> Guitar is mahogany with maple neckthrough, with floyd rose bridge.
> I think someone asked about the 7 string version a couple of pages back which is what I use here, and honestly I think they are some of the best 7 string pickups I have tried, and I have been through most of the Dimarzio catalog and a couple from the seymour duncan lineup.
> 
> Does it djent? I don't think so, but I guess you can EQ anything so quack like a duck, so I am sure it can pull of a decent attempt if that is what you want, but it is probably not the go-to for that.




Why is that "Peavet"?


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

LeviathanKiller said:


> Why is that "Peavet"?


Typo... or because the French pronounce "ette" as more of an ay or eh sound.


----------



## Sumsar

LeviathanKiller said:


> Why is that "Peavet"?



 Indeed typo, nothing to do with french as I am danish. Anyway fixed, thanks for noticing haha


----------



## Cynicanal

Can I join the congregation?

A friend of mine brought over a PRS Mushok with a BW in the bridge, and it was absolutely crushing for Incantation riffs and the like. Great clarity while still sounding huge; palm mutes sounded like getting punched in the face, fast tremolo runs were clear without being sterile, anything I did on the bottom B was clearly intelligible without losing the low-end heft. I liked the combination so much that I had to go and order a PRS SE 277 and a BW to go in it...


----------



## TheUnknownOne

So post-honeymoon appreciation... These things.... RIPS LIKE HELL HOLY LORD ! 

It even makes me reconsider the idea I had to convert one of my guitars with fishman moderns... The black winter bridge just plays itselfs, is tight as f*** but never gets harsh even on high strings, with an output similar to actives. This is the ultimate passive chuggy-techy-metalcore pickup in a mahogany body/maple neck guitar. It can do basically everything and nevers gets muddy or harsh. From drop C down to G, the thing just sounds SICK... The clarity on low strings compared to the SH6 is just unbelievable, and still it never sounds shrill... Sounds like they put some low pass and hi pass filters + a boost in the "good" mids

There's truly some black magic going on inside this pup \m/


----------



## KailM

TheUnknownOne said:


> So post-honeymoon appreciation... These things.... RIPS LIKE HELL HOLY LORD !
> 
> It even makes me reconsider the idea I had to convert one of my guitars with fishman moderns... The black winter bridge just plays itselfs, is tight as f*** but never gets harsh even on high strings, with an output similar to actives. This is the ultimate passive chuggy-techy-metalcore pickup in a mahogany body/maple neck guitar. It can do basically everything and nevers gets muddy or harsh. From drop C down to G, the thing just sounds SICK... The clarity on low strings compared to the SH6 is just unbelievable, and still it never sounds shrill... Sounds like they put some low pass and hi pass filters + a boost in the "good" mids
> 
> There's truly some black magic going on inside this pup \m/


----------



## buriedoutback

every time I read a glowing review of the BW's I think 'maybe its time to replace my deactivator 8 with a BW 8' ...


----------



## KnightBrolaire

buriedoutback said:


> every time I read a glowing review of the BW's I think 'maybe its time to replace my deactivator 8 with a BW 8' ...


eh... the 8 string version is ok, I didn't like it as much I like the 6 string version. It's an improvement over the d-activator imo, but there are other pickup options out there that have better clarity or versatility. If you want a warmer chug-centric monster, then yeah, it's great. It struggles with extended chord clarity ime. 
I have a bunch of 8 string clips if you're interested.


----------



## Bearitone

I got to really play my new baritone with BW’s and i have to say, for what it do, i enjoy them more than my Lundgrens and that’s a big deal to me.


----------



## Edika

I have recently put them in my Gibson Les Paul to replace the Burstbuckers pro. They are not what I expected but I really like them. I expected clarity but not as much as I got from these pickups. They filled up the frequencies a lot and the guitar doesn't sound thin anymore. However it doesn't sound as thick as I expected in E. So I tuned it down to B and it stll retains clarity with the 24.75 inch scale. It needs a bit of a setup and fixing the intonation but sounds more defined than other attempts at B tuning.


----------



## Bearitone

7stringstohangyouwith said:


> So I got me the 6 string version of BW. I've never installed a guitar pickup before and I'm hoping this is as easy as changing engine filters! Is it plug and play, not a whole lot of technical wiring stuff?



You’ll need a soldering iron, some solder wire, and preferably some flux too. Other than that you should be good


----------



## Seabeast2000

7stringstohangyouwith said:


> So I got me the 6 string version of BW. I've never installed a guitar pickup before and I'm hoping this is as easy as changing engine filters! Is it plug and play, not a whole lot of technical wiring stuff?



Are you replacing an existing SD? Just match the wires and solder.


----------



## Bearitone

7stringstohangyouwith said:


> No. My guitar is Hadean. Not sure what humbuckers it has, most likely high output. Do I need a soldering tool (iron or gun?).



Soldering iron. 40 watts. Scoop one up from homedepot and watch a tutorial on soldering. Super easy but, make you sure you get some flux too or you’re going to get frustrated later


----------



## DC23

Any of you guys have suggestions for a Bridge Pickup 7 to match the Black Winter 7 Neck besides the BW Bridge? Got a good deal on one and going to throw it into my RG1527.


----------



## KailM

DC23 said:


> Any of you guys have suggestions for a Bridge Pickup 7 to match the Black Winter 7 Neck besides the BW Bridge? Got a good deal on one and going to throw it into my RG1527.



IMO the BW bridge is the best part of the set, at least in the 6-string version. I could see where you might have better choices if you're tuning your 7-string below B Standard though. What do you want out of your bridge pickup, and what tuning will you be using?


----------



## DC23

I think my only concern is not having enough versatility from BW 7 Bridge. I definitely play with distortion / overdrive heavy sounds, but i am not a fan of shrill highs and buzzsaw characteristics that some 'metal oriented' pickups have. I didn't mind risking for the BW neck to be pretty raw and in your face as I found the stock RG 1527 neck humucker to be extremely muddy and overtly bass heavy. I might just go all in and pick up a bridge BW 7 if that will pair the best and hope for the best haha.


----------



## KailM

DC23 said:


> I think my only concern is not having enough versatility from BW 7 Bridge. I definitely play with distortion / overdrive heavy sounds, but i am not a fan of shrill highs and buzzsaw characteristics that some 'metal oriented' pickups have. I didn't mind risking for the BW neck to be pretty raw and in your face as I found the stock RG 1527 neck humucker to be extremely muddy and overtly bass heavy. I might just go all in and pick up a bridge BW 7 if that will pair the best and hope for the best haha.



The bridge version is quite versatile in my experience. EQ-wise, it is pretty balanced/no big spikes anywhere that might place it in one category of metal or another. With the volume knob on your guitar all the way up it is indeed a very aggressive, powerful, and brutal pickup, but I’ve found that backing off the volume knob a hair yields great hard rock tones and even classic rock. Cleans are amazing. You can’t go wrong. My favorite clean tone of all time is with both the BW bridge and neck selected.


----------



## AirForbes1

Anyone put these in a basswood guitar? I loved them in the Km-6. I'm a little concerned that I'll be missing some of that bright cut. But, if people are loving them in Mahogany as well, then I would think that basswood wouldn't be an issue.


----------



## Zender

Contemplating putting a pair of these, with covers, in my epi LP custom silverburst. 

Anyone here have experience with these in a mahogany body, alder top LP model? And what value pots and caps would make sense?


----------



## Tisca

Zender said:


> Contemplating putting a pair of these, with covers, in my epi LP custom silverburst.
> 
> Anyone here have experience with these in a mahogany body, alder top LP model? And what value pots and caps would make sense?



The Ltd Black Metal EC comes stock with BW. Pots: I'd go no tone, vol value as high as possible. It's a dark pickup.


----------



## ixlramp

'Black Winter' is the best pickup name i've ever seen.


----------



## BananaDemocracy

Blytheryn said:


> It's been my favorite pickup since it came out, and SD just wrote a cool article about it's inception. Cool stuff. Definitely didn't know that it is actually Mayhem approved. Can we turn this into a Black Winter appreciation club?
> 
> It seems to me like this is pickup has an almost cult like following here, and almost everyone that has tried one has been converted. So, share your Black Winter infused axes, your tracks, and whatever and what not about it. I love geeking out about it, and I'm sure you guys do too.
> 
> http://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/the-tone-garage/the-birth-of-the-black-winter


I read this out of curiosity because I for some reason thought it was a new active from SD, but it was interesting nonetheless . (I also love blackouts )


----------



## Jazzamatazz

Hey guys, I have this HSS Strat that I've recently purchased. It is an incredible playing guitar but the stock humbucker is a little too low output for me. I'd like a new pickup that can play anything from heavy ass extreme metal to bands like the below linked .


While I know for sure that the BW can play black and death metal I'm a little worried that they could be a little too hot for the rock stuff. I'm not looking to play jazz or blues or anything on the bridge, I love the middle and neck single coils for that.

I pretty much play E standard or Drop D tuning if that helps at all.

I've read a lot about the versitility of the Black Winters but I wanted to get your opinions on the matter. Also are there any alternatives you would suggest? Thanks a lot guys!


----------



## StrmRidr

I just ordered a Black Winter to put in my LTD Alexi-600. I gave the EMG Hz a chance but I came to the conclusion that I absolutely can't stand that pickup. It's my first time trying out a Black Winter so I am excited.


----------



## Seabeast2000

Time for some soldering....I'm very interested to see how the 7 bridge works out in the KM7.


----------



## PunkBillCarson

Jazzamatazz said:


> Hey guys, I have this HSS Strat that I've recently purchased. It is an incredible playing guitar but the stock humbucker is a little too low output for me. I'd like a new pickup that can play anything from heavy ass extreme metal to bands like the below linked .
> 
> 
> While I know for sure that the BW can play black and death metal I'm a little worried that they could be a little too hot for the rock stuff. I'm not looking to play jazz or blues or anything on the bridge, I love the middle and neck single coils for that.
> 
> I pretty much play E standard or Drop D tuning if that helps at all.
> 
> I've read a lot about the versitility of the Black Winters but I wanted to get your opinions on the matter. Also are there any alternatives you would suggest? Thanks a lot guys!





Roll back the volume a little bit and you're in rock territory. Trust me, it can do hard rock just fine.


----------



## Iron1

AirForbes1 said:


> Anyone put these in a basswood guitar? I loved them in the Km-6. I'm a little concerned that I'll be missing some of that bright cut. But, if people are loving them in Mahogany as well, then I would think that basswood wouldn't be an issue.



I'm considering putting one in a basswood guitar too. Surely someone has done this and has info... ? Kind of down to this or the Elysian Trident II to pair with the Nazgul I have in my main guitar.


----------



## PunkBillCarson

Keith Merrow's demo with the Black Winters was in a Sterling by Music Man if I'm not mistaken and it sounded pretty good to me.


----------



## Seabeast2000

Iron1 said:


> I'm considering putting one in a basswood guitar too. Surely someone has done this and has info... ? Kind of down to this or the Elysian Trident II to pair with the Nazgul I have in my main guitar.



I have them in a basswood RG570. Perfectly awesome.


----------



## Bearitone

I have them in a poplar body. Also perfectly fine. Actually the best pickups I’ve tried (out of the limited number I’ve tried)
-BKP C-Pig
-Lundgren M series
-Blackouts
-Nazgul

Not as tubby as the warping, meaner/more-aggressive than the Lundgren, way clearer than the blackouts, way less obnoxious than the Nazgul

It has completely sated my pickup GAS.

Coil split and now you have some fat, chimey, cleans.


I still prefer the warping neck pickup but, the Black Winter bridge is hands down my favorite.


----------



## Mourguitars

Just tried it in a 97 USA soloist SL2 ..Popular body/ maple neck thru and Ebony fret board and it sounds awesome! i thought it might be bright, but its by far the best SD I've put in there...Very happy.

Great pickup.....Mike


----------



## Iron1

Well, I'll have to se if I can get my hands on one then.


----------



## Seabeast2000

So very satisfying....


----------



## NosralTserrof

Just wanted to give more praise for the BW. 

My band plays 7's and I have a nazgul/sentient in it. It's great, but it's a very clinical pup. Every time I plug in my KM6 I'm astonished at the amount of harmonic richness in my sound. It has all the articulation I need but with a ton more saturation. Love it.


----------



## KailM

NosralTserrof said:


> Just wanted to give more praise for the BW.
> 
> My band plays 7's and I have a nazgul/sentient in it. It's great, but it's a very clinical pup. Every time I plug in my KM6 I'm astonished at the amount of harmonic richness in my sound. It has all the articulation I need but with a ton more saturation. Love it.



I would suggest trying a boost that allows you to increase the low-end a bit, rather than cutting it -- with the Nazgul. I also dial-in more bass through the amp when I'm playing my Nazgul-equipped guitar. Once you do that, it is a monster of a pickup. I agree about the BW though, it has just the perfect amount of low-end, midrange grind, and harmonic richness without any fuss...


----------



## Kovah

(Black) Winter has come 



Evil twins pic


----------



## NosralTserrof

KailM said:


> I would suggest trying a boost that allows you to increase the low-end a bit, rather than cutting it -- with the Nazgul. I also dial-in more bass through the amp when I'm playing my Nazgul-equipped guitar. Once you do that, it is a monster of a pickup. I agree about the BW though, it has just the perfect amount of low-end, midrange grind, and harmonic richness without any fuss...



Oh I 100% agree. Have been doing that and messing with the cut knob on my Tokyo Drive as well as using a klone to boost the front end. Love the Nazgul for sure, but the BW is something else...


----------



## Lindmann

I joined the club today with a 7 string bw in a basswood body tuned to drop G. I have the pickup sitting rather high, close to the strings. 

I must say...I am impressed.
Very well balanced and thus sounding full and rich.
I like how it has a considerable amount of low end without being boomy.


----------



## Lindmann

Today I played a little more and compared it to my other guitars.
I read somewhere that the BW might be based on the SH-6.
And now I think these two pickups could be the exact same pickups just with different names.

Judging by ear, the BW and the SH-6 already sound very similar.
Then I got curious:
I played and recorded one simple riff, that I know very well (so that I can play it consistently) with all my 4 guitars.
Afterwards I used Voxengo SPAN to determine the EQ-curve of each pickup and then compared these.
All pickups showed different results exept the BW and the SH-6 which had the exact same curve.
Not just similar. It was literally the same curve.

Pickups that I compared were: BW, Ibanez INF4, EMG81, SH-6

Anyone else noticed this?


----------



## efiltsohg

they sound completely different to me


----------



## Cynicanal

It's definitely not the same pickup, the magnetic structure is entirely different and the type of wire used is different.


----------



## StrmRidr

I installed a Black Winter in my ALEXI-600 today. It is my first time trying one out. I need more time with it, but I like what I am hearing so far. It is so much better than the stock EMG HZ. Black and white pictures, of course:


----------



## Mourguitars

Lindmann, im glad you done that test, i found that the BW sounded very like a Sh-6...i find the BW very tight sounding vs the Sh6...in a good updated way. More Modern so to speak...fantastic pickup. I have another one laying around and I'm leaning toward taking the pickup cover of the JB in my USA dean hardtail when i get motivated, but im digging it in my USA jackson soloist !

Mike


----------



## StrmRidr

Now that I've been playing mine for about a week, all I can say is god damn is it a nice sounding pickup. They have another one stock at my local store and I think I may grab it to replace the Full Shred in my DK24, as long as it is the trembucker version.


----------



## High Plains Drifter

Add me to the list. Just picked up an LTD Viper with single BW and I have to say that this is one of the best sounding pickups I've ever tried. Mids and highs ring out with great definition.... and no muddy low end. Even heavily distorted they still maintain a great deal of density.


----------



## 777timesgod

I have to admit that the case that Seymour Duncan made for the BW is pretty neat. Reminds me of all Black metal cassettes which is the whole point of it I guess. 
Never warmed up to this pickup though, it sounds too profesional for BM in my opinion, like it is trying to fit in somewhere it does not belong. I checked a band the other day which played on shitty Ibanez V8 pickups, they sounded amazing due to dialing their gear properly and making the songs fit the pickups so well. The BM is like a model putting on corpse paint, its too good to pass for the what it wants.


----------



## pfizer

Thinking of getting a Black Winter set for my Ibanez RGA321.

Do I get the Humbucker or the Trembucker version?


----------



## KnightBrolaire

pfizer said:


> Thinking of getting a Black Winter set for my Ibanez RGA321.
> 
> Do I get the Humbucker or the Trembucker version?


doesn't really matter unless you're ocd about the poles not lining up exactly with your strings. they sound the same, just slightly different spacing (50 vs 52mm)


----------



## Boojakki

pfizer said:


> Thinking of getting a Black Winter set for my Ibanez RGA321.
> 
> Do I get the Humbucker or the Trembucker version?


Get the Trembucker version


----------



## pfizer

Boojakki said:


> Get the Trembucker version



Yeah, seems like the way to go; my OCD will never forgive me if I get something that doesn't line up just right. 

Quick question, is there any extra routing to be done or are the pickups just going to be a drop-in replacement? I read somewhere that Ibanez guitars have pickup cavities designed specifically for DiMarzios.


----------



## Tisca

pfizer said:


> routing



In case of problems: you don't route guitar, you instead file the pickup legs narrower.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Tisca said:


> In case of problems: you don't route guitar, you instead file the pickup legs narrower.


^ this. and you can always cut the screws down on the underside of the duncans if the route is too shallow.


----------



## Cynicanal

KnightBrolaire said:


> ^ this. and you can always cut the screws down on the underside of the duncans if the route is too shallow.


This actually changes the tone, though. Longer screws increase induction and slightly decrease the strength of the magnetic field. In particular, the Pegasus uses longer-than-normal-for-Duncan screws as a way to make it warmer despite being a bit under-wound.


----------



## Sdrizis89

Debating trying these out on my Mayones Duvell 7. Currently I have a nazgul sentient combo. I love the chugs with the nazgul but they seem a little too aggressive at times and tough to control. Great pickup but if I could simmer the upper mids down a tad I would. The sentient isnt working for me in this guitar, but, I like it along with the nazgul in another 7 string that I own. I think this BW7 set is on my list to try next.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Cynicanal said:


> This actually changes the tone, though. Longer screws increase induction and slightly decrease the strength of the magnetic field. In particular, the Pegasus uses longer-than-normal-for-Duncan screws as a way to make it warmer despite being a bit under-wound.


eh I didn't find that it changed the tone much. it's a subtle change, moreso than swapping the screws/bolts out for other types.


----------



## KailM

Sdrizis89 said:


> Debating trying these out on my Mayones Duvell 7. Currently I have a nazgul sentient combo. I love the chugs with the nazgul but they seem a little too aggressive at times and tough to control. Great pickup but if I could simmer the upper mids down a tad I would. The sentient isnt working for me in this guitar, but, I like it along with the nazgul in another 7 string that I own. I think this BW7 set is on my list to try next.



The Black Winter bridge is even more aggressive than the Nazgul, but the mids are emphasized in a different area, leading it to sound maybe a little more well-rounded. With the BW there’s just a lot of everything, whereas the Nazgul is a little more tailored and sculpted.

I find that I have to EQ things differently with the Nazgul than what I typically do with most guitars. I don’t try to “tighten” it up, for example, but rather I feed it a little more bass and up the gain a tad higher than where I set it with my Black Winter. It sounds ridiculous once you do that. I still slightly prefer the BW bridge though.


----------



## Sdrizis89

KailM said:


> The Black Winter bridge is even more aggressive than the Nazgul, but the mids are emphasized in a different area, leading it to sound maybe a little more well-rounded. With the BW there’s just a lot of everything, whereas the Nazgul is a little more tailored and sculpted.
> 
> I find that I have to EQ things differently with the Nazgul than what I typically do with most guitars. I don’t try to “tighten” it up, for example, but rather I feed it a little more bass and up the gain a tad higher than where I set it with my Black Winter. It sounds ridiculous once you do that. I still slightly prefer the BW bridge though.



Interesting. It's really just the upper mids that can be a little much at times in this particular guitar, especially on leads. I have no issue with the nazgul in my Jericho fusion 7. What tuning are you using with the BW? Wonder if the 7 string version is voiced slightly different than the 6 string version.


----------



## KailM

Sdrizis89 said:


> Interesting. It's really just the upper mids that can be a little much at times in this particular guitar, especially on leads. I have no issue with the nazgul in my Jericho fusion 7. What tuning are you using with the BW? Wonder if the 7 string version is voiced slightly different than the 6 string version.



With both pickups I’m usually in C# Standard /Drop-B, but I sometimes do D Standard or Drop-C. 6-string version only.

The 7-string versions are supposedly voiced a little differently, but I wouldn’t expect a huge difference. Overall, regarding the mids, the Nazgul is a bit more spikey in the 1.6khz region (the djent frequency), and your sound is really dependent on your pick attack and where you pick. I find that I must be on my game a little more with the Nazgul or I’ll hear too much of that metallic twang, but once I’m dialed with that guitar it’s fine.

The BW has a broader hump in the mids, which gives it a richer grind, but that’s also balanced by having more bottom end than the Nazgul. The chugs you can get are unreal.


----------



## immemorial

Got these, wired them backwards by accident so the switch in the neck position gives me the bridge, still no regrets


----------



## Seabeast2000

immemorial said:


> Got these, wired them backwards by accident so the switch in the neck position gives me the bridge, still no regrets


That's the spirit.


----------



## Glades

Anybody try the covered black winters? I am looking for a pickup swap and love the look of the covered ones. Any loss of output or clarity?


----------



## MAJ Meadows SF

Watching the Inanimate Existence play through video of the new track "Voyager", off of Clockwork, I spy some Black Winters....! No wonder the tone on this record is rad AF!


----------



## JD27

Glades said:


> Anybody try the covered black winters? I am looking for a pickup swap and love the look of the covered ones. Any loss of output or clarity?



I had some black matte covered BWs in a Viper and Eclipse, they sounded great. I didn’t notice any real difference.


----------



## icipher

Just installed a Black Winter bridge into my Chapman Baritone with alder body. Wow. Probably my favorite pickup ever. I'll be replacing the Juggernauts in my seven string with BW's. These pickups kick the shit out of any bare knuckle's or fishman's i've tried.


----------



## KailM

icipher said:


> Just installed a Black Winter bridge into my Chapman Baritone with alder body. Wow. Probably my favorite pickup ever. I'll be replacing the Juggernauts in my seven string with BW's. These pickups kick the shit out of any bare knuckle's or fishman's i've tried.



Welcome to good, brutal AF tone...


----------



## Lindmann

Even though I really like the Black Winters, I think that the effects that they have are a bit exaggerated in this thread.
This might apply to other pickups also.

If you read through this thread you might come to the conclusion that the install of this pickup will turn a shitty weak tone into some kind of monsterous brutal tone.
But in reality it has just a rather small impact on the overall tone.
Yes...there is a noticable difference that is apparent played though a tube amp as well as recorded through a VST.
And the Black Winter might be the best pickup I've ever played...but my shitty stock Ibanez INF4 Brige Pickup isn't that far away tone-wise from what I get from the Black Winters.

I don't know...I don't intend to piss anyone off and I don't wanna neglegt the importance of pickups.
It's just that I think those threads tend to brag a little too much about the capabilities that the pickup in question has.


----------



## KailM

Lindmann said:


> Even though I really like the Black Winters, I think that the effects that they have are a bit exaggerated in this thread.
> This might apply to other pickups also.
> 
> If you read through this thread you might come to the conclusion that the install of this pickup will turn a shitty weak tone into some kind of monsterous brutal tone.
> But in reality it has just a rather small impact on the overall tone.
> Yes...there is a noticable difference that is apparent played though a tube amp as well as recorded through a VST.
> And the Black Winter might be the best pickup I've ever played...but my shitty stock Ibanez INF4 Brige Pickup isn't that far away tone-wise from what I get from the Black Winters.
> 
> I don't know...I don't intend to piss anyone off and I don't wanna neglegt the importance of pickups.
> It's just that I think those threads tend to brag a little too much about the capabilities that the pickup in question has.



For sure, there's exaggeration going on, I'll admit it. 

IME, the AMP, and pedals, to a lesser extent, make far and away more difference than any other factor in your chain, besides your hands. A lot of us here though, have had the amp and pedal factors covered for a long time, and are only looking at pickups as a final tweak to our tone. Largely, in a band context, or even in recording, most people can't tell the difference between two different pickups provided they're in the same ballpark for output. You certainly can't listen to a song and say with any certainty -- "yeah, that's definitely the ___________ bridge pickup"; at least I can't. They provide only subtle differences.

That said, I did buy a guitar last fall that supposedly had "decent" stock pickups. At least the reviews of them were glowingly positive. No matter what I did, however, I could not get a tone I liked. I tried tweaking my boost pedal a dozen different ways, more gain on the amp, less gain, extreme EQ changes -- nothing did it for me. I put a Black Winter in the bridge and it was an instantaneous amazing tone out of the guitar.

I think in this "pickups and electronics" forum, you get a false sense that we're thinking pickups are the be-all, end-all of tone since that is primarily what we discuss here. I think probably most of us realize they're not.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Lindmann said:


> Even though I really like the Black Winters, I think that the effects that they have are a bit exaggerated in this thread.
> This might apply to other pickups also.
> 
> If you read through this thread you might come to the conclusion that the install of this pickup will turn a shitty weak tone into some kind of monsterous brutal tone.
> But in reality it has just a rather small impact on the overall tone.
> Yes...there is a noticable difference that is apparent played though a tube amp as well as recorded through a VST.
> And the Black Winter might be the best pickup I've ever played...but my shitty stock Ibanez INF4 Brige Pickup isn't that far away tone-wise from what I get from the Black Winters.
> 
> I don't know...I don't intend to piss anyone off and I don't wanna neglegt the importance of pickups.
> It's just that I think those threads tend to brag a little too much about the capabilities that the pickup in question has.


this thread has always been an echo chamber for black winter fanboys. They're good pickups imo, but not deserving of some of the hyperbole people on here throw out.


----------



## Bearitone

Glades said:


> Anybody try the covered black winters? I am looking for a pickup swap and love the look of the covered ones. Any loss of output or clarity?



I took an uncovered pair, swapped the the silver screws for black allen bolts and installed nickel covers.

With both of these changes i can’t hear a lick of difference from the original uncovered set. Here’s the NGD thread where you can see them done and installed

The good pictures are at the bottom of page 1

https://www.sevenstring.org/threads/ngd-warmoth-baritone-jazzmaster.333393/


----------



## MAJ Meadows SF

Black Winters are the most metal pickups of all time, get it right or GTFO.

That being said, this is all 1,000% subjective on our part. Hence the "worship" title to the thread. It wouldn't be that interesting to have a "(insert brand) meh thread", and talk about our okay'ish feelings. "These pickups did average things to my tone. I rate them adequately satisfactory." Another thing is some people have sharper ears for sonic differences, and it's not to say their hearing makes their opinion better/truer, they just have an ear for it. And they go completely insane (this guy, right here) over cigar/wine/beer snob level subtleties. 

I'm just particular and know what I like. For instance, I'd never use the Fishman Merrows. They are exceptional at what they do and what Keith wanted. Not for me; I don't like them, not at least with his gear and production. The BWs checked sooo many blocks for me, and when I asked for a tweaked version, they were perfect for my ears at the time and the greatest sound since the horrid screams of bread being sliced. Now, I've shifted a bit and want something different, and could easily describe what. To someone else they all might sound the same and have little to no effect on the tone to their ears. They might also think that tone is awesome, but can't tell from the three. For me, BWs went form a really cool option and something different to a benchmark for my ears' tonal preference.


----------



## icipher

MAJ Meadows SF said:


> Black Winters are the most metal pickups of all time, get it right or GTFO.
> 
> 
> I'm just particular and know what I like. For instance, I'd never use the Fishman Merrows. They are exceptional at what they do and what Keith wanted. Not for me; I don't like them, not at least with his gear and production. The BWs checked sooo many blocks for me, and when I asked for a tweaked version, they were perfect for my ears at the time and the greatest sound since the horrid screams of bread being sliced. Now, I've shifted a bit and want something different, and could easily describe what. To someone else they all might sound the same and have little to no effect on the tone to their ears. They might also think that tone is awesome, but can't tell from the three. For me, BWs went form a really cool option and something different to a benchmark for my ears' tonal preference.



I've tried a LOT of pickups. Generally don't love Dimarzios and have grown out of EMGs. ALways loved the Duncan Distortion and Full Shred. Had the Fishman Merrow set in my KM-7 and good God they sounded awful. They "felt" awful too.... none of the rich overtones I get from a passive. They didn't breathe in the mids or shimmer in the highs. Just straight pick attack and overall brutally stiff and stubborn tone.

Just got black winters installed and WOW. This is THE pickup I've been looking for. Aggressive but balanced. Saturated yet clear. Biting but not brittle. I really don't understand the love of Fishmans whatsoever.


----------



## MAJ Meadows SF

icipher said:


> I've tried a LOT of pickups. Generally don't love Dimarzios and have grown out of EMGs. ALways loved the Duncan Distortion and Full Shred. Had the Fishman Merrow set in my KM-7 and good God they sounded awful. They "felt" awful too.... none of the rich overtones I get from a passive. They didn't breathe in the mids or shimmer in the highs. Just straight pick attack and overall brutally stiff and stubborn tone.
> 
> Just got black winters installed and WOW. This is THE pickup I've been looking for. Aggressive but balanced. Saturated yet clear. Biting but not brittle. I really don't understand the love of Fishmans whatsoever.



Love stories like these get me all gushing with feels! LOL

Yeah I've never been on the active wagon. They have their place and applications. I've tried a few Fishman's and I think they are good at what they are advertised to do, but it's not a sound I want. I actually prefer several of the EMG sets to them. To each their own. BW's are doing it for me and have been for a while.


----------



## PunkBillCarson

Got some in a Charvel San Dimas Pro-Mod. This with an Eyemaster into my 6505+ head? Sweet fuckin' God...


----------



## JesperX

Looking for some thoughts from Black Winter 7 owners who tune down around Drop G#/Drop A. What’s your experience with the tightness in the lows tuning that low?

I’ve got a Nazgul that I’m looking to replace- too much going on in the upper mids, want more even mids and lower mid roar. Just don’t want to introduce more low end.


----------



## Cynicanal

One of the guitarists from Imprecation uses it in A standard (you're from Dallas, where they played a week ago; did you catch their set?). It's plenty tight for death metal, might not work for djent/prog.


----------



## JesperX

Cynicanal said:


> One of the guitarists from Imprecation uses it in A standard (you're from Dallas, where they played a week ago; did you catch their set?). It's plenty tight for death metal, might not work for djent/prog.



Naw, I’ll check them out, thanks. I haven’t been to a show in ages, having kids will do that to you lol.

I like a tight modern sound but I’ve got a lot of different influences so I don’t live in one specific sound necessarily. If the mids are right I could just cut lows before the amp, I’m doing that now with the Naz anyway in addition to trying to even out the mids.


----------



## Cynicanal

https://drive.google.com/file/d/167wlNkvgOXCC0SHpZktesYZPqfGOpBrk/view?usp=sharing

I tuned my PRS SE 277 (which is what I've got my BW in) down to A and recorded some random chuggy stuff so you can hear for yourself. Signal chain was Guitar -- Boss Super Overdrive -- Bogner Uberschall Twin Jet -- Bogner Uberkab -- SM57 -- Scarlett 2i4.


----------



## Bobo

Just put some BW's in a cheap, old RG 6er. I don't want to exaggerate, but it really woke this guitar up. I'm gonna try them in some other guitars that sing more to get a better idea of their potential.


----------



## JesperX

Cynicanal said:


> https://drive.google.com/file/d/167wlNkvgOXCC0SHpZktesYZPqfGOpBrk/view?usp=sharing
> 
> I tuned my PRS SE 277 (which is what I've got my BW in) down to A and recorded some random chuggy stuff so you can hear for yourself. Signal chain was Guitar -- Boss Super Overdrive -- Bogner Uberschall Twin Jet -- Bogner Uberkab -- SM57 -- Scarlett 2i4.



That's awesome, thanks for the clip! Honestly the low end doesn't sound much different than the Nazgul in my EVH 50w, it's got that "kick you in the chest" thing going on on the low palm mutes. I definitely think the mid profile would be better suited to my needs though.


----------



## gunch

Still can't decide if I want one of these or a SH-6 in my NK or go semi-boutique route (Elysian, Guitarmory, MCP)


----------



## PunkBillCarson

So I've found that you get better results with these pickups when they're a bit lower instead of right up on the string. I lowered it more than I typically do and it still has a mean ass, saturated growl, just with a bit more clarity. Has this been the experience with anyone else?


----------



## Cynicanal

I like them high, but I usually go for sheer heft, size, and violence over dainty things such as "being able to tell what notes are being played".


----------



## primitiverebelworld

This whole thread reminds me of 2010 when everyone was obsessed with SD blackouts. Do you remember? Yes I know this is not a BlackoutsNostalgiaSOmeOldDudeMurkingAround topic but interesting nonetheless. Its all about pespective and how the tone we like has evolved. I specially ordered these PUPs from US to EST for my apex II and obviously they represented night and day difference in tone compared to Dimarzio Paf7-s. I was all about chuggy rhytm and shreddy lead ala Nevermore that time. It delivered in that department but probably would have failed in everything in between. Then we(this forum as my benchmark in everything about musicalstuff) came to conclusion that they are too hot and muddy and BKP-s are by far superior in 2013 or something. Ao I started fancying Painkiller set. After THAT we figured BKP-s are too middy, articulate ant thin and in come the BW-s. I have not yet tried them personally but it has got me thinking: are we evolving for the search of tone or are we going in circles.
PS. anyone can play whatever one wants and buy whichever pickups and guitars they want. Nothing wrong with that.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

primitiverebelworld said:


> This whole thread reminds me of 2010 when everyone was obsessed with SD blackouts. Do you remember? Yes I know this is not a BlackoutsNostalgiaSOmeOldDudeMurkingAround topic but interesting nonetheless. Its all about pespective and how the tone we like has evolved. I specially ordered these PUPs from US to EST for my apex II and obviously they represented night and day difference in tone compared to Dimarzio Paf7-s. I was all about chuggy rhytm and shreddy lead ala Nevermore that time. It delivered in that department but probably would have failed in everything in between. Then we(this forum as my benchmark in everything about musicalstuff) came to conclusion that they are too hot and muddy and BKP-s are by far superior in 2013 or something. Ao I started fancying Painkiller set. After THAT we figured BKP-s are too middy, articulate ant thin and in come the BW-s. I have not yet tried them personally but it has got me thinking: are we evolving for the search of tone or are we going in circles.
> PS. anyone can play whatever one wants and buy whichever pickups and guitars they want. Nothing wrong with that.



And now, you actually have a thread singing praises to the EMG 81 just below this one.


----------



## ExplorerMike

Well as of today I’m officially a member of that Black Winter convert crew. Ordered a bridge pickup to throw in an old LTD F-50 I’ve had for years. The thing always played well but never sounded good, I had put an SH-6 in years ago and it was better but still lacked a lot of punch. 

Fast forward to today and I gave it a good setup as it hasn’t had one in a while and installed the Black Winter in the bridge. Like many before me have said, this thing rips big time. I absolutely love it and in my case it blew the SH-6 out of the water. I think someone a little earlier mentioned it that these things can really wake up a dull guitar, it did for me! Going to be looking into getting a 7 string version next for my Jackson.


----------



## primitiverebelworld

MASS DEFECT said:


> And now, you actually have a thread singing praises to the EMG 81 just below this one.


Yeah 57 actually. I do appreciate them for the applications I explained in mentioned thread. Its not too clashing dont you think? It kind of verifies that the tone quest goes in circles. There are no absolutes.  Yet this thread is about Worship ...so I should not have walked in so proudly as someone who has not even tried BW-s


----------



## FifthCircleSquared

I threw a BW into my Carvin CS6 last weekend. What a monster pickup! It also weirdly mates well with the Pearly Gates neck pickup I left in there. Almost like a Liquifire\Crunchlab setup but a little more vocal on the neck and wayyyyyy more crushing on the Bridge. I had intended to replace the PG neck eventually but not anymore! Both pickups together in the middle position sound great as well, it makes for some interesting tonal options. 

I'm currently tuned to Eb standard/Drop C#, but tried as low as Drop B and can say the BW bridge can definitely hang for drop tuned sixers.


----------



## ofu

Hadn't played my BW equipped custom SG for couple of months and just plugged it in the good ol' 6505 boosted with my new Maxon OD 808x and it took of the . Sound is pure rabid savagery. I just fell in love with this simple chain and the BWs again and had to say it to the wide world. BW and 808x in a 6505 is just my staple for the off the hook aggression. Or, as we say around here, this setup bites its own chain.


----------



## Edika

Lately I have been on a magnet swapping kick on some of my pickups trying to fine tweak some of the aspects of some of the pickups in my guitars. One thing I didn't care for on the Black Winter bridge pickup is it has a rather piercing high end. I was expecting a bit more of a bottom end when I got it but the Les Paul I had it in sounded bright and not as thick as I wanted in the first place. @KnightBrolaire had experimented with A8 and A5 magnets and it seemed quite interesting so I bought a few A8 magnets to try on this and other pickups. It turns out the central Ceramic magnet on the BW is really thick, thicker than the standard pickup bar magnet.
I was going to try a swap on the Carvin C22B A5 for an A8 and saw that the the Carvin had an equally thick or even slightly thicker A5 magnet so I exchanged them between the two. Both pickups an guitars benefited from the swap and I must say that the BW with the thick A5 is how originally I imagined this pickup would sound. Less ear piercing highs, a bit more pronounce and looser bass response but still tight. It just fills the sonic frequencies more while being crushing. I get more of a chest thump with this configuration rather than the Ceramic magnet.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Edika said:


> Lately I have been on a magnet swapping kick on some of my pickups trying to fine tweak some of the aspects of some of the pickups in my guitars. One thing I didn't care for on the Black Winter bridge pickup is it has a rather piercing high end. I was expecting a bit more of a bottom end when I got it but the Les Paul I had it in sounded bright and not as thick as I wanted in the first place. @KnightBrolaire had experimented with A8 and A5 magnets and it seemed quite interesting so I bought a few A8 magnets to try on this and other pickups. It turns out the central Ceramic magnet on the BW is really thick, thicker than the standard pickup bar magnet.
> I was going to try a swap on the Carvin C22B A5 for an A8 and saw that the the Carvin had an equally thick or even slightly thicker A5 magnet so I exchanged them between the two. Both pickups an guitars benefited from the swap and I must say that the BW with the thick A5 is how originally I imagined this pickup would sound. Less ear piercing highs, a bit more pronounce and looser bass response but still tight. It just fills the sonic frequencies more while being crushing. I get more of a chest thump with this configuration rather than the Ceramic magnet.


yep, the A5 Skadi is where it's at imo. Smooths out the high end but still crushes under high gain if you leave the ceramic flankers in.


----------



## Iron1

Edika said:


> Lately I have been on a magnet swapping kick on some of my pickups trying to fine tweak some of the aspects of some of the pickups in my guitars. One thing I didn't care for on the Black Winter bridge pickup is it has a rather piercing high end. I was expecting a bit more of a bottom end when I got it but the Les Paul I had it in sounded bright and not as thick as I wanted in the first place. @KnightBrolaire had experimented with A8 and A5 magnets and it seemed quite interesting so I bought a few A8 magnets to try on this and other pickups. It turns out the central Ceramic magnet on the BW is really thick, thicker than the standard pickup bar magnet.
> I was going to try a swap on the Carvin C22B A5 for an A8 and saw that the the Carvin had an equally thick or even slightly thicker A5 magnet so I exchanged them between the two. Both pickups an guitars benefited from the swap and I must say that the BW with the thick A5 is how originally I imagined this pickup would sound. Less ear piercing highs, a bit more pronounce and looser bass response but still tight. It just fills the sonic frequencies more while being crushing. I get more of a chest thump with this configuration rather than the Ceramic magnet.



Did you make before & after recordings? Would love to hear the difference.


----------



## Edika

KnightBrolaire said:


> yep, the A5 Skadi is where it's at imo. Smooths out the high end but still crushes under high gain if you leave the ceramic flankers in.



I did leave the ceramic flankers in. First time around I put it in an opposite polarity than the flankers and the result was a wet fart lol. Then when I did put it correctly it was glorious! Thanks for the tip man and being curious enough to go head and try it!



Iron1 said:


> Did you make before & after recordings? Would love to hear the difference.



Unfortunately no. I only have time to do these kind of tinkering after the kids go to bed and don't have time to record during the day. I wasn't planning to do anything with the Black Winter last night as I didn't have a thick enough magnet to replace the Ceramic in there. When I opened up the Carvin C22B and saw that it had a thick Alnico 5 I decided to kill two birds in one stone. However it was late at night and could not record anything. If you listen to KnightBrolaire's demos though he does cover all three iterations of the Black Winter. Or I can see about at least recording something with the Black Winter with A5 or Skadi as Knight has named it!


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Iron1 said:


> Did you make before & after recordings? Would love to hear the difference.


I have some clips comparing all the versions that I can post up later.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Iron1 said:


> Did you make before & after recordings? Would love to hear the difference.


here's a clip comparing all three in the meantime (starts with ceramic unboosted and boosted, then same for a8 and a5):
https://www.dropbox.com/s/tmbv3a7aqr0o4jw/kaijiujitsu_a5_a8_ceramic mag comparison.mp3?dl=0
here's some TRV KVLT shit:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/69scnu4kmyetder/Skadi TRV KVLT_triple recto .mp3?dl=0
other clips:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/plrqhcapdi6nu15/AAB1X12zjt65irpAWlvfqnzKa?dl=0

I'll have more in depth comparisons up eventually


----------



## Iron1

KnightBrolaire said:


> here's a clip comparing all three in the meantime (starts with ceramic unboosted and boosted, then same for a8 and a5):
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/tmbv3a7aqr0o4jw/kaijiujitsu_a5_a8_ceramic mag comparison.mp3?dl=0
> here's some TRV KVLT shit:
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/69scnu4kmyetder/Skadi TRV KVLT_triple recto .mp3?dl=0
> other clips:
> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/plrqhcapdi6nu15/AAB1X12zjt65irpAWlvfqnzKa?dl=0
> 
> I'll have more in depth comparisons up eventually



Thanks for posting these, KB! 

From what's going on in the first one, I prefer it stock.


----------



## Seabeast2000

After several months of playing a BW 7 bridge in a OG KM7, it's just not able to get nearly as Black Winter as the 6 version. It works well for me but it's not any kind of direct translation from the 6. Ime. I have bw 6's in two other guitars.


----------



## Iron1

The906 said:


> After several months of playing a BW 7 bridge in a OG KM7, it's just not able to get nearly as Black Winter as the 6 version. It works well for me but it's not any kind of direct translation from the 6. Ime. I have bw 6's in two other guitars.



How so? Can you give a more detailed description of both?


----------



## Seabeast2000

Iron1 said:


> How so? Can you give a more detailed description of both?



I'm a bit leary of the words for that, but less percussive, focused, and def looser. Still good for me, but more indistinguished as a stand-alone pickup than the regular BW.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

The906 said:


> I'm a bit leary of the words for that, but less percussive, focused, and def looser. Still good for me, but more indistinguished as a stand-alone pickup than the regular BW.


yeah it's muddier/looser on the low end for the 7 and 8 string versions compared to the 6 string version. The voicing isn't particularly suited to super low tunings, especially if you're downtuning below A. It's not a huge deal ime, as you can just dial in your rig differently to compensate for the difference in feel. The lack of clarity on lower notes is very noticeable when I play extended chords but that's not something most ppl are going to be doing with the bw


----------



## Seabeast2000

KnightBrolaire said:


> yeah it's muddier/looser on the low end for the 7 and 8 string versions compared to the 6 string version. The voicing isn't particularly suited to super low tunings, especially if you're downtuning below A. It's not a huge deal ime, as you can just dial in your rig differently to compensate for the difference in feel. The lack of clarity on lower notes is very noticeable when I play extended chords but that's not something most ppl are going to be doing with the bw



I'd dare to say the BW7 is a good doom pickup. Sunn O should endorse and rebrand it or something.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

The906 said:


> I'd dare to say the BW7 is a good doom pickup. Sunn O should endorse and rebrand it or something.


I do really like using it for sludgier/doomier riffs, I think it works better for that than super tight tech riffage. The 8 string version was a better doom pickup than the avedissian scythe I had, and the scythe is marketed as more of a doom pickup lol


----------



## Seabeast2000

KnightBrolaire said:


> I do really like using it for sludgier/doomier riffs, I think it works better for that than super tight tech riffage. The 8 string version was a better doom pickup than the avedissian scythe I had, and the scythe is marketed as more of a doom pickup lol



What would you recommend as best 7 version of a BW 6? Does that question make sense?


----------



## MrWulf

I like my BW7 if anything. I put it in my basswood Jackson and ash/maple Schecter. Maybe the wood helps balanced it out? But for me it is high gain, and very articulate/balanced.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

The906 said:


> What would you recommend as best 7 version of a BW 6? Does that question make sense?


hmm I can't really answer that as my experience with 7 string pickups is pretty limited compared to my experience with 6/8 string pickups. There are other pickups I've used that get the sledgehammer lows of the bw, but they have a different mid emphasis (like the M7 and the d-sonic).


----------



## Seabeast2000

MrWulf said:


> I like my BW7 if anything. I put it in my basswood Jackson and ash/maple Schecter. Maybe the wood helps balanced it out? But for me it is high gain, and very articulate/balanced.



Have you had the 6 version in anything? Interested to hear your thoughts if so.


----------



## chopeth

I had the 6 version and loved it in my mahogany ibanez and was thinking in buying a pair of BW7 for my baritone swamp ash guitar, so after reading you I'm maybe taken too much of a risk of not getting what I want especially considering the high price of a couple Black Winters (new)


----------



## Iron1

chopeth said:


> I had the 6 version and loved it in my mahogany ibanez and was thinking in buying a pair of BW7 for my baritone swamp ash guitar, so after reading you I'm maybe taken too much of a risk of not getting what I want especially considering the high price of a couple Black Winters (new)



Not sure that's really a risk since they hold their value really well on the resale market. Just get a bridge and if you don't like it, sell it for almost what you paid for it and move on.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

random noodly clip with my BW loaded LTD viper 7 and my PRS Archon:
https://www.mediafire.com/file/z67nrvvkw3y15d9/bw7_archon_recto4x12_medley.flac/file


----------



## Seabeast2000

I'm going to modify my opinion of the BW7 bridge a bit. Did some random BMT tweaking and its now much more cutting and raw. Sorry for confusion, it just needed a lot MORE eq tweaks than I was accustomed. My bad. Chalk up to a fair amount of newb ignorance.


----------



## sonoftheoldnorth

Can anyone tell me how a BW7 directly compares to a Dimarzio Titan 7? 

I have an Ibanez JBM27 with the stock gold covered Titans. The guitar is tuned Ab and used mainly for Death Metal, along the lines of mid-era Morbid Angel C-G, Hate Eternal, Immolation, Lost Soul etc through either a Framus Dragon, JCM800 or GSP1101(5150)>Peavey Classic 60/60

I don't dislike the Titans sound, not so keen on the looks and I don't care about modifying the guitar as I'm not a fan of Periphery (bought for good specs). Can't help but wonder if the BW will be more my thing.


----------



## MetalHead40

MetalHead40 said:


> Dam this thread has me gassin for the Black Winters again!
> 
> I need to re-visit the BW set. Had them in an all walnut Carvin ST300c and liked the pickups but not the tone through the amp I had at the time (PV Triple XXX 2). That amp was so harsh and honky in the upper mids and harsh in the highs. I moved the BWs on a hopeless pickup search trying to correct the things I didn't like about the amp.
> 
> Well I've since ditched that amp and now play on an Engl Savage 120 and an Engl FB100 and really think I need to try the Black Winters again.




Well...three years later and I finally grabbed another set of BWs. These will be going in a Mayo Qatsi 6. Distortion in there now and it rips, but I've always wanted to retry the BW. What I remember most was this sub-sonic low end response that was just awesome; hope I get the same response in this guitar.


----------



## PRS_Baritone_Vito

I love the Black Winters. I've got a set in my PRS SE 277 baritone and a set in my Agile AL-2500 baritone. They give so much clarity to the lower tunings without losing any low end beefiness. 

I haven't tried the seven string version yet. I'm sure they sound just as great, though.


----------



## 1b4n3z

I wonder if the spacer magnets actually contribute a significant amount to clarity? I modded a JB with a normal size A8 magnet (tends to beef it up quite a bit, possibly at the cost of clarity) and two ceramic spacer magnets and the result is just amazing. Big tone, excellent note separation - very 'focused' attack. My BW bridge is still quite a bit grittier and brighter, but that really wasn't the direction I was going for in the first place. Clarity is noteworthy in both cases


----------



## LeviathanKiller

1b4n3z said:


> I wonder if the spacer magnets actually contribute a significant amount to clarity? I modded a JB with a normal size A8 magnet (tends to beef it up quite a bit, possibly at the cost of clarity) and two ceramic spacer magnets and the result is just amazing. Big tone, excellent note separation - very 'focused' attack. My BW bridge is still quite a bit grittier and brighter, but that really wasn't the direction I was going for in the first place. Clarity is noteworthy in both cases


Spacer/flanking magnets make a substantial difference imo


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Made a vid showcasing the Black winter 7 bridge and my Archon. They make a br00tal combo.


----------



## Necky379

1b4n3z said:


> I wonder if the spacer magnets actually contribute a significant amount to clarity? I modded a JB with a normal size A8 magnet (tends to beef it up quite a bit, possibly at the cost of clarity) and two ceramic spacer magnets and the result is just amazing. Big tone, excellent note separation - very 'focused' attack. My BW bridge is still quite a bit grittier and brighter, but that really wasn't the direction I was going for in the first place. Clarity is noteworthy in both cases





LeviathanKiller said:


> Spacer/flanking magnets make a substantial difference imo




Where did you find ceramic spacer magnets? I was thinking about modding a JB-7 and I can’t find any in the states.


----------



## 1b4n3z

Necky379 said:


> Where did you find ceramic spacer magnets? I was thinking about modding a JB-7 and I can’t find any in the states.



I bought mine from Cermag, a UK based company. They sell all kinds of magnets and they are happily already compatible with one another. There's nothing quite as grating as slanting pickup bobbins


----------



## Sumsar

Slightly necrobumping this thread, since I still love this pickup.

I did a cover of a Behemoth song using the black winter bridge pickup in my mahogany Chris broderick 7 soloist:


----------



## PRS_Baritone_Vito

G


Sumsar said:


> Slightly necrobumping this thread, since I still love this pickup.
> 
> I did a cover of a Behemoth song using the black winter bridge pickup in my mahogany Chris broderick 7 soloist:



Great cover, dude! Gotta love those Black Winters.

Does Behemoth usually tune to C# for their stuff?


----------



## Sumsar

PRS_Baritone_Vito said:


> Great cover, dude! Gotta love those Black Winters.
> 
> Does Behemoth usually tune to C# for their stuff?



Thanks, I have only covered songs from their Satanist album which seems to be all in C#


----------



## KnightBrolaire

got bored and recorded some wankery with my LTD Viper BW7 through my MK3. 
https://www.mediafire.com/file/xuq9f7lrky0244e/BW7_Mk3_medley1.flac/file


----------



## olejason

Any of you guys running a black winter in an HSS setup? I've googled around but haven't found too much advice on what single coils to pair with a BW in the bridge. I mainly use the neck pickup for cleans and leads.


----------



## SubsonicDoom99

olejason said:


> Any of you guys running a black winter in an HSS setup? I've googled around but haven't found too much advice on what single coils to pair with a BW in the bridge. I mainly use the neck pickup for cleans and leads.


I have not personally run the BW in an HSS setup but I know of someone who paired his with the Duncan Hot Rails in the middle and neck. Got an amazing tone out of it, playing mostly progressive rock/metal and doing a lot of lead guitar work with it. So I can't vouch for it first hand unfortunately but the tone he was getting out of that thing worked for me, seemed like it all balanced out nicely. https://www.seymourduncan.com/pickup/hot-rails-strat-set


----------



## AndiKravljaca

I'd like to chime in and say, despite loads of people praising the BW bridge pickup, the Black Winter neck pickup is a goddamned gem? I've never heard a neck pickup out of Seymour Duncan's stable with that amount of output, punch and clarity. The closest thing I've heard is a BK Warpig neck pickup, and that's praise, or at least is intended to be. I think the BW neck pickup is Seymour's best kept secret...


----------



## KailM

AndiKravljaca said:


> I'd like to chime in and say, despite loads of people praising the BW bridge pickup, the Black Winter neck pickup is a goddamned gem? I've never heard a neck pickup out of Seymour Duncan's stable with that amount of output, punch and clarity. The closest thing I've heard is a BK Warpig neck pickup, and that's praise, or at least is intended to be. I think the BW neck pickup is Seymour's best kept secret...



Yes, the neck is wonderful too; your ears do not kid you. In general, I do not use the neck by itself very much, but when I do use the BW neck it is pretty smooth and creamy, with a little sparkle. It is that sparkle/character that has me thinking about swapping out the Liquifire in one of my guitars for a BW neck; as there is already a BW bridge in that guitar.

Certainly, the Liquifire I have is the cream of the crop for shreddy leads. Yet, I find myself getting bored with it, and the cleans are a little lackluster. When using the BW neck and bridge together for cleans it has an amazing sound. And when I do dabble in shred, it doesn't disappoint.


----------



## Zoobiedood

The clean sound of the BW neck pickup is remarkable. It is much more versatile than the description would have you believe.


----------



## PRS_Baritone_Vito

KailM said:


> Yes, the neck is wonderful too; your ears do not kid you. In general, I do not use the neck by itself very much, but when I do use the BW neck it is pretty smooth and creamy, with a little sparkle. It is that sparkle/character that has me thinking about swapping out the Liquifire in one of my guitars for a BW neck; as there is already a BW bridge in that guitar.
> 
> Certainly, the Liquifire I have is the cream of the crop for shreddy leads. Yet, I find myself getting bored with it, and the cleans are a little lackluster. When using the BW neck and bridge together for cleans it has an amazing sound. And when I do dabble in shred, it doesn't disappoint.


I also have the BW in the bridge and neck and love the clean tones I get when I use the middle selector switch. I will usually roll my tone knob down a couple of notches as well, and man does it sound good.


----------



## NeglectedField

So I have the 'Blackened' BW's in my Schecter KM-6 (first iteration). 

They do remind me of the fun I had with the TB-6 Distortion in my Ibanez S320; the tight tracking, the articulation and the way they 'drive' the amp. However, as the more astute of you may have seen from another thread I posted, I'm having a real problem with a very 'vowelled' sound, kinda like a 'cocked wah' or a 'nang/dwang' sound. Kinda like how this sounds at 1.06 onwards but not quite as extreme:  - I don't know if that could be defined as an upper-mid and/or a treble thing.

It's a shame because I like everything else about it (except I prefer creamier neck pickups and am eyeing up stuff like the '59). I don't know if it's because it's in a swamp ash (w/ebony board) guitar, pickup height or what. I didn't have this issue with the Distortion but then again that was in a waffeur thin mahogany body.

A bit puzzled as to what possible alternatives there are. I like tight ceramic bite and brightness but not the aforementioned issue. It's that tiny thing that's preventing a fun pickup from being a viable recording pickup, for me.


----------



## SamSam

Fuck you guys, I've just had to order a set because of this thread


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

NeglectedField said:


> So I have the 'Blackened' BW's in my Schecter KM-6 (first iteration).
> 
> They do remind me of the fun I had with the TB-6 Distortion in my Ibanez S320; the tight tracking, the articulation and the way they 'drive' the amp. However, as the more astute of you may have seen from another thread I posted, I'm having a real problem with a very 'vowelled' sound, kinda like a 'cocked wah' or a 'nang/dwang' sound. Kinda like how this sounds at 1.06 onwards but not quite as extreme:  - I don't know if that could be defined as an upper-mid and/or a treble thing.
> 
> It's a shame because I like everything else about it (except I prefer creamier neck pickups and am eyeing up stuff like the '59). I don't know if it's because it's in a swamp ash (w/ebony board) guitar, pickup height or what. I didn't have this issue with the Distortion but then again that was in a waffeur thin mahogany body.
> 
> A bit puzzled as to what possible alternatives there are. I like tight ceramic bite and brightness but not the aforementioned issue. It's that tiny thing that's preventing a fun pickup from being a viable recording pickup, for me.




Maybe try to replace the allen screws with regular flat head screws? I heard allen screws can add more aggression to the sound, and the BWs have an ungodly aggressive mid range kinda like the BKP Painkillers I find.


----------



## NeglectedField

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Maybe try to replace the allen screws with regular flat head screws? I heard allen screws can add more aggression to the sound, and the BWs have an ungodly aggressive mid range kinda like the BKP Painkillers I find.



Yeah? Are these screws easy to find and do all pickups use the same thread type? And is it fairly obvious and straightforward a procedure or do you have to be super delicate to avoid damaging the pickup? If this saves me a heap of cash, that'd be awesome.


----------



## kleinenenten

Been interested in these pickups for a while, and was browsing for a new to me 7 string last night. Found a good old Ibanez SR7321 with Black Winters already installed for cheap. My buddy has that model with the Nazgul/Sentient combo, and it sounds amazing. We’ll see how it sounds compared to mine! Should have it some time this week week. Two birds - one stone. Psyched.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

NeglectedField said:


> Yeah? Are these screws easy to find and do all pickups use the same thread type? And is it fairly obvious and straightforward a procedure or do you have to be super delicate to avoid damaging the pickup? If this saves me a heap of cash, that'd be awesome.



I'm not totally sure the procedure or if it'll actually 100% solve the problem, but Its worth a shot. Check the Duncan forums and theres probably some threads on how to swap hex screws for flatheads, and vice versa.


----------



## PRS_Baritone_Vito

NeglectedField said:


> So I have the 'Blackened' BW's in my Schecter KM-6 (first iteration).
> 
> They do remind me of the fun I had with the TB-6 Distortion in my Ibanez S320; the tight tracking, the articulation and the way they 'drive' the amp. However, as the more astute of you may have seen from another thread I posted, I'm having a real problem with a very 'vowelled' sound, kinda like a 'cocked wah' or a 'nang/dwang' sound. Kinda like how this sounds at 1.06 onwards but not quite as extreme:  - I don't know if that could be defined as an upper-mid and/or a treble thing.
> 
> It's a shame because I like everything else about it (except I prefer creamier neck pickups and am eyeing up stuff like the '59). I don't know if it's because it's in a swamp ash (w/ebony board) guitar, pickup height or what. I didn't have this issue with the Distortion but then again that was in a waffeur thin mahogany body.
> 
> A bit puzzled as to what possible alternatives there are. I like tight ceramic bite and brightness but not the aforementioned issue. It's that tiny thing that's preventing a fun pickup from being a viable recording pickup, for me.




Have you tried adjusting the individual pole piece screws to see if that gets rid of that 'nag/dwang' sound you're hearing? I'd try raising them a couple of turns to see if it changes anything.

If you are thinking about swapping the screws out for a different head shape, from what I've read the length of the screw has a lot to do with the tone of the string as well. Here's an article I found on Seymour Duncan's website about the pole piece screw size and length - https://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/the-tone-garage/tinkering-with-pickups-101


----------



## NeglectedField

PRS_Baritone_Vito said:


> Have you tried adjusting the individual pole piece screws to see if that gets rid of that 'nag/dwang' sound you're hearing? I'd try raising them a couple of turns to see if it changes anything.
> 
> If you are thinking about swapping the screws out for a different head shape, from what I've read the length of the screw has a lot to do with the tone of the string as well. Here's an article I found on Seymour Duncan's website about the pole piece screw size and length - https://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/the-tone-garage/tinkering-with-pickups-101



_Raising _them? I woulda thought it would be the other way round. But I can experiment I guess. I did find the situation was much worse when I got the guitar (might have been why it went unsold for years) and it helped a little to lower the bridge pickup height a coupla mm. It clips less than it did but that problematic tonal quality remains. 

And cheers for the link - I did see it earlier but it is quite handy.


----------



## NeglectedField

[Accidental double post - can't delete]


----------



## kleinenenten

Got a used Ibanez RG7321 a few weeks ago with Black Winters already installed. Gotta say, loving them. I was a bit skeptical at first, as I love my Nazgul/Sentient combo in my LP style Ibanez, but man, these are amazing. It’s like the Nazgul/Sentient combo, but with better cleans and more bass. I was gonna put the N/S combo into whatever new guitar I bought, but had worried that they would be thin, as my buddy’s RG7321 has them, and while they’re great, they seem a bit too trebly. Same combo in my LP sounded much better with its naturally thicker low end. But the Black Winters make my current guitar right in between my LP and my buddy’s RG, and able to cop both tones with pickup selector options. I’m simply blown away how good they sound through my pedals too.


----------



## NeglectedField

I replaced the bolt screws with fillister head ones and the situation I had with the 'clangyness' has improved ever so slightly. Gonna give it some time to see what my ears think before I consider whipping them out for something else.


----------



## Seabeast2000

NeglectedField said:


> I replaced the bolt screws with fillister head ones and the situation I had with the 'clangyness' has improved ever so slightly. Gonna give it some time to see what my ears think before I consider whipping them out for something else.


Not sure if it matters... but have you tried a different pick material?


----------



## NeglectedField

The906 said:


> Not sure if it matters... but have you tried a different pick material?



I would very much doubt that be the issue. I use Dunlop Jazz IIIs on all my guitars without issue. It would seem odd to find the pick to be the problem if it doesn't sound right on one guitar.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

got bored and made a quick wank filled vid with my bw loaded viper 7


----------



## Seabeast2000

KnightBrolaire said:


> got bored and made a quick wank filled vid with my bw loaded viper 7




That a BW7? It sounds great.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

The906 said:


> That a BW7? It sounds great.


yup, it's the 7 string version of the black winter, hence why I posted it in here 
The Mk3 compliments the sound of it better compared to my archon or xxx imo


----------



## SamSam

I finally installed the Black Winters into my RG2077XL! They were supposed to go in my S7420FM but I honestly don't want to route the cavities on it. So far I am impressed, they are mega fucking tight. I am getting a fair bit of pick chirp but that might be from the carbon fibre dunlop pick I've been using the last few days? (I don't usually use these).

I do think they might be the best SDs I've tried to date, I actually really like the Nazgul Sentient set, but the BWs seem tighter and more refined if that makes sense?


----------



## Blytheryn

SamSam said:


> I finally installed the Black Winters into my RG2077XL! They were supposed to go in my S7420FM but I honestly don't want to route the cavities on it. So far I am impressed, they are mega fucking tight. I am getting a fair bit of pick chirp but that might be from the carbon fibre dunlop pick I've been using the last few days? (I don't usually use these).
> 
> I do think they might be the best SDs I've tried to date, I actually really like the Nazgul Sentient set, but the BWs seem tighter and more refined if that makes sense?



Hell yeah. I miss having a Black Winter loaded axe.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

SamSam said:


> I finally installed the Black Winters into my RG2077XL! They were supposed to go in my S7420FM but I honestly don't want to route the cavities on it. So far I am impressed, they are mega fucking tight. I am getting a fair bit of pick chirp but that might be from the carbon fibre dunlop pick I've been using the last few days? (I don't usually use these).
> 
> I do think they might be the best SDs I've tried to date, I actually really like the Nazgul Sentient set, but the BWs seem tighter and more refined if that makes sense?


those carbon fiber picks have a LOOOT of pick noise. Also they leave black carbon dust everywhere. 
BW is definitely more versatile than the nazgul/sentient set. Nazgul works great in darker sounding guitars but gets too nasally in the wrong guitar. BW set really doesn't have that issue with its midrange. I've had them in very bright guitars and darker sounding ones, and they play fine in both.


----------



## kleinenenten

I actually spent an hour yesterday tweaking my BWs in my RG7321. Found them to be too hot and making everything sound overblown when run full out like my other guitars. I reduced volume by about 1/3 and they are much better. Still not sure which set Imprefer over N/S and BW, butthey’re both great. BW definitely are more versatile, but I’m not really utilizing that anyway. Probably gonna pick up a Pegasus/Sentient set for my six string soon. Loving them all so far, and wouldn’t mind having the tone options.

Any opinions on the Pegasus/Sentient vs. BW, especially in a 6 string? I’m hoping the bass response is between the N/S and BW, but I can hear the differences between the two Sentient combos well in demos. That slight bit of extra clarity might be my ticket for some fast runs.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

kleinenenten said:


> I actually spent an hour yesterday tweaking my BWs in my RG7321. Found them to be too hot and making everything sound overblown when run full out like my other guitars. I reduced volume by about 1/3 and they are much better. Still not sure which set Imprefer over N/S and BW, butthey’re both great. BW definitely are more versatile, but I’m not really utilizing that anyway. Probably gonna pick up a Pegasus/Sentient set for my six string soon. Loving them all so far, and wouldn’t mind having the tone options.
> 
> Any opinions on the Pegasus/Sentient vs. BW, especially in a 6 string? I’m hoping the bass response is between the N/S and BW, but I can hear the differences between the two Sentient combos well in demos. That slight bit of extra clarity might be my ticket for some fast runs.


pegasus has the loosest bass of the three from what I remember, but it's not significantly looser.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

You might try adjusting the pickup height.


----------



## Flappydoodle

I put one in the bridge of my Eii Horizon (set neck, mahogany, maple top, TOM bridge). 

It's so awesome. Tuned to C standard, it's heavy. 

Thick low end without mud or farts. 

Really, really nice mids which can be heard clearly but aren't quacky or wah pedal sounding. 

And the treble cuts without being piercing.

It's dynamic enough, but not super dynamic. I don't really want dynamic for metal anyway. And it has good clarity, but not amazing clarity. Again, I don't really play that sort of music where I play big dissonant chords. And I'd say the output is medium-high. Definitely saturates amps and plugins, but it's not ridiculous.

What's interesting though is the exact same pickup was HORRIBLE in my Caparison Horus M3 (bolt on, maple, Floyd, 24.75 scale). It was really dark, kinda muddy, scooped and muffled sounding with a harsh top end. I thought I hated the pickup until I put it in the Horizon.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

I'm wondering how these will do now that I'm stuck in standard tuning land.

Anyways I'm waiting to get a pair of covered BWs. Stores don't have them in stock yet and probably won't until fall. Lame


----------



## SamSam

The bridge definitely has more low end grunt than the nazgul, right now I have it pretty close to the strings. I will probably experiment a bit though and lower the bridge a tad. So far I think this is definitely my favourite SD on first impression. 

I'm contemplating a set of Imperiums or maybe the bareknuckle brute force set for my S7.


----------



## Blytheryn

By the way, if anyone in Europe wants to get rid of a bridge BW in standard spacing, hit up my DM’s.


----------



## Merrekof

Blytheryn said:


> By the way, if anyone in Europe wants to get rid of a bridge BW in standard spacing, hit up my DM’s.


Man are those hard to find in Europe! Lots of stores around here don't even sell the BW's. And if they do, it is usually only 6 string. The used market is hopeless too. Missed out on two sets for sale


----------



## SamSam

Merrekof said:


> Man are those hard to find in Europe! Lots of stores around here don't even sell the BW's. And if they do, it is usually only 6 string. The used market is hopeless too. Missed out on two sets for sale



The uk/eu price on SD "custom" models is disgusting as well. They charge way over the average price of a set! £300 for the alpha omega set!


----------



## Merrekof

SamSam said:


> The uk/eu price on SD "custom" models is disgusting as well. They charge way over the average price of a set! £300 for the alpha omega set!


I'm not surprised. A set of BW6s cost 199$ in the US. Thomann in Germany is asking 260€ for the same set. Buying a bridge and neck seperately is 120€ a piece, strange..


----------



## SamSam

The BWs I got were form the US, I probably stumbled across a seller that doesn't use the damn global shipping thing (musical equipment is exempt from tax/duty) so I won't pay for something I don't need to pay. It's £40 duty on the dimarzios I want!


----------



## Blytheryn

Merrekof said:


> Man are those hard to find in Europe! Lots of stores around here don't even sell the BW's. And if they do, it is usually only 6 string. The used market is hopeless too. Missed out on two sets for sale



You can get them from Thomann, but I mean 120 bucks for an black winter... Not that it’s not worth it, I’d rather just swap or take one off someone if they have one lying around.


----------



## Merrekof

Blytheryn said:


> You can get them from Thomann, but I mean 120 bucks for an black winter... Not that it’s not worth it, I’d rather just swap or take one off someone if they have one lying around.


Indeed, I came across two used ads but they are usually sold pretty fast. The first seller in France was reluctant to ship the set to Belgium. Then I came across a listing in the Netherlands and IIRC one here. Both were sold by the time I contacted the sellers. Still hawking though


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> I'm wondering how these will do now that I'm stuck in standard tuning land.
> 
> Anyways I'm waiting to get a pair of covered BWs. Stores don't have them in stock yet and probably won't until fall. Lame


How're are you stuck in standard tuning?


----------



## kleinenenten

KnightBrolaire said:


> pegasus has the loosest bass of the three from what I remember, but it's not significantly looser.


Well, that's out then. Don't need more bass response. I'd prefer slightly tighter than the BW if possible.

What's the BW based on? Is there a SD pickup that has similar EQ but not as hot? That sounds like what I'd really want.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

Spaced Out Ace said:


> How're are you stuck in standard tuning?



Cause I'm enjoying it. Maybe drop D at the lowest. I used to be at drop C sharp but I'm enjoying standard tuning


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Cause I'm enjoying it. Maybe drop D at the lowest. I used to be at drop C sharp but I'm enjoying standard tuning


I see. I use E and Eb standard.


----------



## kleinenenten

Spaced Out Ace said:


> You might try adjusting the pickup height.


No luck. No way to adjust it - it's directly mounted to the guitar.


----------



## kleinenenten

What about Invaders? I hear they're similar to BWs. I'm going for something with similar tone but not as hot. The guitar will be dropped a half step to play old school thrash like Tankard and some Iced Earth. Nothing too crazy distortion-wise.


----------



## SamSam

kleinenenten said:


> Well, that's out then. Don't need more bass response. I'd prefer slightly tighter than the BW if possible.
> 
> What's the BW based on? Is there a SD pickup that has similar EQ but not as hot? That sounds like what I'd really want.



I believe the JB might have been the base for these "modern" SD pickups? I remember seeing mention of it somewhere. I cannot recall if that was referring to the BW or Nazgul though.


----------



## SamSam

Sorry, SD Distortion is apparently what the are based on!


----------



## Carl Kolchak

KnightBrolaire said:


> got bored and made a quick wank filled vid with my bw loaded viper 7



What was the QC like on that Viper? It's MII, isn't it?


----------



## kleinenenten

SamSam said:


> Sorry, SD Distortion is apparently what the are based on!


Well, that and the Invader are the final 2 it would seem. Thanks.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Carl Kolchak said:


> What was the QC like on that Viper? It's MII, isn't it?


No that one was MIK actually. The QC was really good. Good initial setup, no paint or structural defects of any kind, no sharp fret ends or shrinking fretboards, not even some minor finish scratches. My only complaint was that the satin finish gets glossy verrrry quickly. If I buy another I'm refinishing it to a slime green.


----------



## Carl Kolchak

KnightBrolaire said:


> No that one was MIK actually. The QC was really good. Good initial setup, no paint or structural defects of any kind, no sharp fret ends or shrinking fretboards, not even some minor finish scratches. My only complaint was that the satin finish gets glossy verrrry quickly. If I buy another I'm refinishing it to a slime green.


MIK? I must've pm'd like 20+ sellers on Reverb, and every one of them told me theirs' were MII. If I could've found a MIK I'd have snagged it on the spot.


----------



## Kovah

SamSam said:


> Sorry, SD Distortion is apparently what the are based on!



I think the general consensus is that it's basically a Distortion with more mids.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

I wanted a set of covered BWs. Originally I was gonna go through the custom shop but I found out the stores sell them as a floor custom shop thing.

I missed all the sales and when I contacted a seller they told me that due to Covid, Seymour Duncan didn't have them but hoped to have them out by October.

I'd been waiting, figuring I'd just have to hold off on getting a set until then.

Then I realized....you can buy the fucking covers and just put them on the pickups. Game changer.

........but now there are no sets of normal BWs available and they're all on back order.

Fuck my life


----------



## runbirdman

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> I wanted a set of covered BWs. Originally I was gonna go through the custom shop but I found out the stores sell them as a floor custom shop thing.
> 
> I missed all the sales and when I contacted a seller they told me that due to Covid, Seymour Duncan didn't have them but hoped to have them out by October.
> 
> I'd been waiting, figuring I'd just have to hold off on getting a set until then.
> 
> Then I realized....you can buy the fucking covers and just up them on the pickups. Game changer.
> 
> ........but now there are no sets of normal BWs available and they're all on back order.
> 
> Fuck my life



Check with Mike’s Music Shop (eBay: banjomikez). Every DiMarzio or SD I’ve ever bought came from him. Great to deal with and will let you know what is possible to get ahold of.


----------



## Blytheryn

runbirdman said:


> Check with Mike’s Music Shop (eBay: banjomikez). Every DiMarzio or SD I’ve ever bought came from him. Great to deal with and will let you know what is possible to get ahold of.



Banjomikez is great! Bought my slimed out BW’s from him years ago.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

Seymour Duncan: We have 100+ BW bridge pickups
Seymour Duncan: We also have 100+ BW neck pickups
Also Seymour Duncan: NO SETS AVAILABLE. ALL ON BACK ORDER!


----------



## SamSam

runbirdman said:


> Check with Mike’s Music Shop (eBay: banjomikez). Every DiMarzio or SD I’ve ever bought came from him. Great to deal with and will let you know what is possible to get ahold of.



I was hoping to buy some Dimarzios from him but unfortunately that damn ebay global fees scheme is in place 

I've actually lowered my bridge BW a bit now and chirping has subsided, they need a bit more fine tuning, but so far so good!


----------



## kleinenenten

I was looking at trying to lower my BWs to reduce volume slightly, but my RG7321 doesn’t have a pickup ring. Is there a way to adjust pickup height on that guitar?


----------



## SamSam

kleinenenten said:


> I was looking at trying to lower my BWs to reduce volume slightly, but my RG7321 doesn’t have a pickup ring. Is there a way to adjust pickup height on that guitar?



I'm using the stock screws from my RG with no mounting ring and they adjust fine? In fact I don't have any padding underneath either and they still adjust pretty well. Not as smooth as a spring/pickup ring installation but it still works fine.


----------



## Metropolis

kleinenenten said:


> I was looking at trying to lower my BWs to reduce volume slightly, but my RG7321 doesn’t have a pickup ring. Is there a way to adjust pickup height on that guitar?



Aren't they direct mounted? Just turn the phillips screws clockwise.


----------



## kleinenenten

Metropolis said:


> Aren't they direct mounted? Just turn the phillips screws clockwise.


Guess mine won’t go any lower, then. Thought maybe it was an issue. I’m clearly a bassist first, guitarist second!


----------



## Metropolis

kleinenenten said:


> Guess mine won’t go any lower, then. Thought maybe it was an issue. I’m clearly a bassist first, guitarist second!



Actually I've had Invader too in the bridge of RG7321. There was lot of room under it, and it was installed too loose. Maybe it has too much foam underneath? Though pickup route height may vary between different years of manufacturing, but Invader doesn't even have those long pole screws which are sticking out from the baseplate.


----------



## kleinenenten

Metropolis said:


> Actually I've had Invader too in the bridge of RG7321. There was lot of room under it, and it was installed too loose. Maybe it has too much foam underneath? Though pickup route height may vary between different years of manufacturing, but Invader doesn't even have those long pole screws which are sticking out from the baseplate.


Been re-tweaking my rig the last few days, and I think I’ve got it all figured out without having to adjust the pickup. Great sounding rig with all my guitars, each component sounds great for each guitar without any tweaking. Really lets the pickups shine and show each of their characteristics. What are your thoughts on the Invader? Looking at one for my 6 string. That or maybe a Distortion. Or Pegasus...


----------



## Merrekof

Quick question. Is there any difference between the "blackened" pickup loaded ltds and the "real-deal" Duncans?
Iirc, they are direct mounted, would that be problematic if used with pickup rings?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Merrekof said:


> Quick question. Is there any difference between the "blackened" pickup loaded ltds and the "real-deal" Duncans?
> Iirc, they are direct mounted, would that be problematic if used with pickup rings?



The Blackened ones use hex polepieces, the regulars use standard screw/slug layouts. It slightly effects the tone by making it slightly tighter and more aggressive.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Merrekof said:


> Quick question. Is there any difference between the "blackened" pickup loaded ltds and the "real-deal" Duncans?
> Iirc, they are direct mounted, would that be problematic if used with pickup rings?


Soundwise it's not a significant difference ime. 

depends on the mounting screw used. You'll probably have to fill the hole as mounting screws are usually biggger than pickup ring screws ime. You could either solder on a small nut to take pickup ring screws, or you can do it the ghetto way with soldering the hole, then drilling the proper sized hole through the solder. The uber ghetto way is to take either a used or spare guitar string (or wire) and put a few wraps around rim of the hole. All of them are plenty effective, but the guitar string/wire trick is the fastest and least involved.


----------



## Carl Kolchak

Can confirm BWs + basswood is an excellent combination for down-tuned heaviness.


----------



## SamSam

Carl Kolchak said:


> Can confirm BWs + basswood is an excellent combination for down-tuned heaviness.



Oh for fucking sure man. Made for each other


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

SEYMOUR DUNCAN ONLY HAD ONE BW SET LEFT AND I BOUGHT IT!!! WOOOP!!!


----------



## Seabeast2000

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> SEYMOUR DUNCAN ONLY HAD ONE BW SET LEFT AND I BOUGHT IT!!! WOOOP!!!



Its going to be the blackest of winters if no more BW's are around.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

Seabeast2000 said:


> Its going to be the blackest of winters if no more BW's are around.



I asked for a set of covered ones but SD is so backed up they can't even take orders or even give an estimate.

I ordered a set of pickup covers and the regular BWs and I'll just have my tech do the work.

SD is all messed up right now. They need some milk


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

Hold on to your dooky, it's about to get spooky!


----------



## TheUnvanquished

I have a loose set of black winters around here somewhere, which i really should install into one of my guitars. This thread makes me want to do it. 

Do you guys think they would rip in an Ibanez RG?


----------



## Seabeast2000

Yes.jpg


----------



## kleinenenten

TheUnvanquished said:


> I have a loose set of black winters around here somewhere, which i really should install into one of my guitars. This thread makes me want to do it.
> 
> Do you guys think they would rip in an Ibanez RG?


I can confirm they rip in my RG7321.


----------



## dmlinger

Been seeing this thread for months and it inspired me to purchase a set.

Almost finished with a build that has a mahogany body and all indian rosewood neck. Same model as my profile pic. Thought the BWs would fit those timbers well. Going for a surf green top and am going to install some raw nickle covers for a nice vintage Fender look. Pretty excited to try these


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

I get mine installed tomorrow. By next week I should be checking them out for myself.


----------



## Merrekof

dmlinger said:


> Been seeing this thread for months and it inspired me to purchase a set.



Same, except I'm really short on cash. I did get a used, stock bridge BW from an LTD for afair price. 
I'll try to put it in my Ibanez FR1620 this weekend in pair with a SD Alnico pro II in the neck position.


----------



## bloodocean

TheUnvanquished said:


> I have a loose set of black winters around here somewhere, which i really should install into one of my guitars. This thread makes me want to do it.
> 
> Do you guys think they would rip in an Ibanez RG?



I put a set in my ‘89 RG550 and they sound phenomenal. Really punchy and aggressive.


----------



## Bedecki

I've got a set of Black Winters on the way. Whats everyones favorite wiring scheme for them? 

I'm thinking just a simple 3-way switch, and a single push pull to split both. I have a 5-way super switch kicking around so could do something prs style too.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Bedecki said:


> I've got a set of Black Winters on the way. Whats everyones favorite wiring scheme for them?
> 
> I'm thinking just a simple 3-way switch, and a single push pull to split both. I have a 5-way super switch kicking around so could do something prs style too.


that'll give you a good taste of what they can do. If you're going to do a 5 way then running the parallel option for the bridge is worth it. Helps clean up the bridge a good amount.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

Bedecki said:


> I've got a set of Black Winters on the way. Whats everyones favorite wiring scheme for them?
> 
> I'm thinking just a simple 3-way switch, and a single push pull to split both. I have a 5-way super switch kicking around so could do something prs style too.



I just got a BW set with the triple shot system. The split coil option is lovely. I really like it more than I thought I would.

In the standard mode I'm still getting used to them. No particular frequency pops out besides the high end but I think that's due to the new pickups. It's not as fat as I was thinking it was gonna be but that's fine. It's enough. That's how I describe it. It's enough. It has just enough of everything without it being overbearing or something I have to EQ out.

It's definitely louder and hotter than the stock pickups I had but even then it's not too much, it's simply enough. I like it.


----------



## Edika

So after having the Black Winters in my Les Paul, not giving with it, selling the set, trying a couple of more sets and tuning the guitar in D, I decided to give the Black Winters another go. I initially was considering putting them in my Schecter E-1 but changed my mind and took out the Distortions from the Les Paul and put the Black Winters in. Instantly I loved the sound. Just in your face with more higher mids and less of a loose low end. I initially was trying to beef up the sound of the Les Paul as I thought it was a bit too bright but I was wrong.

I'm enjoying the hell out of the Black Winters and I'm thinking of getting more sets to put another guitars. I put the Distortions in the Schecter and they sound great. A bit more dull than the BW and more of a bass response but still got that SD snarl.


----------



## kleinenenten

I've recently come around more to my Black Winters as well. The biggest concern I had was a "blown out" bass sound I was getting through my TightMetal Pro. I had forgotten about the internal knobs, so I turned the "Fat Rhythm" knob off. No more issues. These things rip. If I wasn't trying to get various different tones from different guitars, there's no reason to use anything other than Black Winters. Everything sounds good, and I'm currently questioning whether or not I prefer the BW or Nazgul/Sentient set.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

I find that settings on what you're using may have to change when you use BWs. They were overloading the signal on my interface until I put it on the vocals setting instead of the guitar setting. It was too hot and made all kinds of noise otherwise. I also had to drop the pickups lower until they were all the way down. They certainly aren't the kind of pickups you just throw in and keep going. You gotta do some work.

All in all I like mine. They aren't insanely different from other things I've tried but they get the job done. I like them. They don't have the fat dark chug of the pickups I replaced them with but they're a lot more clear and defined which is good.


----------



## kleinenenten

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> I find that settings on what you're using may have to change when you use BWs. They were overloading the signal on my interface until I put it on the vocals setting instead of the guitar setting. It was too hot and made all kinds of noise otherwise. I also had to drop the pickups lower until they were all the way down. They certainly aren't the kind of pickups you just throw in and keep going. You gotta do some work.
> 
> All in all I like mine. They aren't insanely different from other things I've tried but they get the job done. I like them. They don't have the fat dark chug of the pickups I replaced them with but they're a lot more clear and defined which is good.


I agree to an extent, as far as you have to make them usable for you and tweak your exact setup with them, but to me, the purpose of having different pickups is to have different tones. I prefer to have a single tone set on my amp/pedals, and have the guitars' voices be the change. I don't want to tweak other settings, or else I'd never actually play guitar. Of course, each to his own and all.


----------



## Faldoe

I have the BW set in my ESP LTD HB300 baritone - all maple guitar - and they're super bright. Anyone else experience them being really bright?


----------



## KnightBrolaire

all maple is super bright?
WHAT A SURPRISE


----------



## Korneo

KnightBrolaire said:


> all maple is super bright?
> WHAT A SURPRISE


I have an all maple 7 strings and it's not a very bright guitar. IKt really depend of it.
I's my heaviest guitar too and the sound is really clear, precise and the attack is really fast, but the wall sound is not overly bright. My LP Custom have a brighter sound for example.


----------



## Flappydoodle

kleinenenten said:


> I agree to an extent, as far as you have to make them usable for you and tweak your exact setup with them, but to me, the purpose of having different pickups is to have different tones. I prefer to have a single tone set on my amp/pedals, and have the guitars' voices be the change. I don't want to tweak other settings, or else I'd never actually play guitar. Of course, each to his own and all.



This is essentially impossible though.

If you go to a store and play 20 Gibson Les Pauls, they all sound different. Some are brighter, some are darker, some are alive, and some are just dead-sounding. All the same pickups, same species of wood, and same construction, scale length and hardware.

So this idea that the only variable between a bunch of guitars is the pickups is impossible to achieve. Especially when you (presumably) want some variety in your guitars - like fixed/Floyd bridge, scale length, string number.


----------



## kleinenenten

Flappydoodle said:


> This is essentially impossible though.
> 
> If you go to a store and play 20 Gibson Les Pauls, they all sound different. Some are brighter, some are darker, some are alive, and some are just dead-sounding. All the same pickups, same species of wood, and same construction, scale length and hardware.
> 
> So this idea that the only variable between a bunch of guitars is the pickups is impossible to achieve. Especially when you (presumably) want some variety in your guitars - like fixed/Floyd bridge, scale length, string number.


I must respectfully disagree. I never said that pickups were the only variable, only that I like each guitar's voice to shine through. Pickups are a part of that voice. Also like you mention, I do like variety in tones. None of my guitars sounds identical, though all are somewhat similar. The biggest difference to my (admittedly untrained) ears has been the pickups. My RG7321 with Black Winters and my buddy's RG7321 with Nazgul/Sentient sound totally different, though are as close otherwise as can be realistically achieved. Again, as you mention. I must have different tastes in amp settings, then, because I rarely change amp settings. Of course, it's also important to note my dirt is pedal-based - certainly that simplifies things a bit and allows me versatility in that regard instead of having to re-EQ my amp for each type of dirt tone I need. I functionally have as many channels on my amp as I do dirt pedals.


----------



## hilljack13

Just seeing this thread as I don't visit often, however after watching some Merrow videos I wanted to try the winters out. I was able to pick up a trembucker set off ebay for ~$135. I put them in a RG920 and they have been the best pickups I have used. Unfortunately I ended up selling the guitar and am assed out. I'm thinking of putting a set in the K720th. SD wants a pretty penny to put the gold poles in so I'll have to think about it, but damn what an upgrade from PAF-7!


----------



## John

It's been awhile since I've had a Black Winter set, but they're one of the few SD pickups I liked. Name aside, they're actually quite versatile.


ie- I've used them for fusion jazz, or at least my attempt at it, and they worked out pretty well.

https://www.instagram.com/p/vSayN4kojc/


----------



## Steinmetzify

Finally got the RGA121 I grabbed here back in May to my guy for a setup. 

The BWs in it were direct mounted and I can’t live that life; had him set some foam underneath so I can adjust as I see fit. 

Kicked some treble off the B channel on my Dual Dark and these things CHUG. Dig em.


----------



## sonoftheoldnorth

The Black Winter thread back for 2021 ha. 

How do black winters suit a super bright guitar? ash body wenge neck guitar. I'm having troubles with too much high end and midrange snappiness. Something I never thought possible.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

sonoftheoldnorth said:


> The Black Winter thread back for 2021 ha.
> 
> How do black winters suit a super bright guitar? ash body wenge neck guitar. I'm having troubles with too much high end and midrange snappiness. Something I never thought possible.


they work better in less bright guitars ime. I had the black winter in a very bright limba/maple dc600 and the high end was kind of overbearing til I did the alnico 5 mag swap.


----------



## GustavoGP

sonoftheoldnorth said:


> The Black Winter thread back for 2021 ha.
> 
> How do black winters suit a super bright guitar? ash body wenge neck guitar. I'm having troubles with too much high end and midrange snappiness. Something I never thought possible.


Schecter KM-6 MKI has them (swamp ash body) and to my ears they sound phenomenal. This is a very good example of how they sound


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

So after having the BWs for a while in a guitar of mine.

I have two guitars of the same type. One came with some sort of odd EMG looking stock pickups. The other came with normal Dean Time Capsule pickups as stock.

I replaced the odd EMG looking pickups in one guitar because they were a little too dry and had a roundness to the low end I wanted to get rid of. The funny thing is when I go back and listen to music I did with the old pickups it sounds fine in a mix. Isolated the BWs sound better but in a mix no one is likely to notice or care.

Do I regret the pickup swap? No. There's no amazing night and day difference but the BWs did what I wanted them to do.

Will I be replacing the stock pickups in my other guitar with them? No. Honestly I like the Dean Time Capsule pickups a bit more. They would have been a cheaper alternative to the BWs but the BWs offer something a little different and when layering guitars for music that sort of thing matters.

All in all they aren't bad pickups. Will I replace all my pickups with them? No. Am I in love with them? No. Are they good pickups? Yes.


----------



## Tisca

Recommend me a *neck pickup* to pair a BW with. Preferably Duncan since they're tried and true and I can get good deals on brand new ones and 2nd hand market always has some.
guitar is a shreddy FR with alder body, maple neck and ebony board (ESP LTD Elite M-II). My other BW equipped is a single pickup guitar. SD jazz is a middle ground choice but I have had so many. I have owned Jazz, 59, Seth Lover. Not sure if I should go with a high output one or choose something that cleans up well. Don't really use neck pickups on shreddy guitars but I want to put something.


----------



## Kovah

Tisca said:


> Recommend me a *neck pickup* to pair a BW with. Preferably Duncan since they're tried and true and I can get good deals on brand new ones and 2nd hand market always has some.
> guitar is a shreddy FR with alder body, maple neck and ebony board (ESP LTD Elite M-II). My other BW equipped is a single pickup guitar. SD jazz is a middle ground choice but I have had so many. I have owned Jazz, 59, Seth Lover. Not sure if I should go with a high output one or choose something that cleans up well. Don't really use neck pickups on shreddy guitars but I want to put something.



A Black Winter?


----------



## Steinmetzify

Tisca said:


> Recommend me a *neck pickup* to pair a BW with. Preferably Duncan since they're tried and true and I can get good deals on brand new ones and 2nd hand market always has some.
> guitar is a shreddy FR with alder body, maple neck and ebony board (ESP LTD Elite M-II). My other BW equipped is a single pickup guitar. SD jazz is a middle ground choice but I have had so many. I have owned Jazz, 59, Seth Lover. Not sure if I should go with a high output one or choose something that cleans up well. Don't really use neck pickups on shreddy guitars but I want to put something.



+1 on the BW neck. It’s actually really versatile and does great cleans.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Tisca said:


> Recommend me a *neck pickup* to pair a BW with. Preferably Duncan since they're tried and true and I can get good deals on brand new ones and 2nd hand market always has some.
> guitar is a shreddy FR with alder body, maple neck and ebony board (ESP LTD Elite M-II). My other BW equipped is a single pickup guitar. SD jazz is a middle ground choice but I have had so many. I have owned Jazz, 59, Seth Lover. Not sure if I should go with a high output one or choose something that cleans up well. Don't really use neck pickups on shreddy guitars but I want to put something.


 Personally I prefer the 59 neck over just about every other duncan neck pickup. I'd go that route. It has great cleans, works well for shreddy leads and has good enough output to keep up with a black winter. Alnico II pro could work too but I think the 59 is smoother and more forgiving tbh.


----------



## Blytheryn

Tisca said:


> Recommend me a *neck pickup* to pair a BW with. Preferably Duncan since they're tried and true and I can get good deals on brand new ones and 2nd hand market always has some.
> guitar is a shreddy FR with alder body, maple neck and ebony board (ESP LTD Elite M-II). My other BW equipped is a single pickup guitar. SD jazz is a middle ground choice but I have had so many. I have owned Jazz, 59, Seth Lover. Not sure if I should go with a high output one or choose something that cleans up well. Don't really use neck pickups on shreddy guitars but I want to put something.



+1 for a neck winter.


----------



## MrWulf

BW neck


----------



## Tisca

Thx, I guess whole BW set it is then =).


----------



## Edika

I will agree with @KnightBrolaire about the Duncan 59 neck. Great and full cleans but can get mean and dirty. One of the best neck pickups I've tried. But the Black Winter neck is really nice too.



sonoftheoldnorth said:


> The Black Winter thread back for 2021 ha.
> 
> How do black winters suit a super bright guitar? ash body wenge neck guitar. I'm having troubles with too much high end and midrange snappiness. Something I never thought possible.



From what I've experienced the Black Winters do emphasize the guitar sound, bright guitars will stillnsound bright, maybe a bit too harsh, and darker guitars might end up being more bassy, but quite clear at the same time. You do get the Black Winter character but it won't remove the high end much. I had the opportunity to try the Black Winter and the Distortion in the same bright guitar and felt the Distortion did a better job at taming high frequencies, even if the low end is a bit more pronounced. 

Otherwise you can try a Dimarzio Tonezone, great for bright guitars.


----------



## Flappydoodle

Edika said:


> I will agree with @KnightBrolaire about the Duncan 59 neck. Great and full cleans but can get mean and dirty. One of the best neck pickups I've tried. But the Black Winter neck is really nice too.
> 
> 
> 
> From what I've experienced the Black Winters do emphasize the guitar sound, bright guitars will stillnsound bright, maybe a bit too harsh, and darker guitars might end up being more bassy, but quite clear at the same time. You do get the Black Winter character but it won't remove the high end much. I had the opportunity to try the Black Winter and the Distortion in the same bright guitar and felt the Distortion did a better job at taming high frequencies, even if the low end is a bit more pronounced.
> 
> Otherwise you can try a Dimarzio Tonezone, great for bright guitars.



Agree. I have a BW in an ESP Horizon NT. Quite a dark sounding guitar overall, and the BW makes it very punchy and quite a lot of bright high end. I can imagine it being too much in a brighter sounding guitar.


----------



## Glades

Tisca said:


> Recommend me a *neck pickup* to pair a BW with. Preferably Duncan since they're tried and true and I can get good deals on brand new ones and 2nd hand market always has some.
> guitar is a shreddy FR with alder body, maple neck and ebony board (ESP LTD Elite M-II). My other BW equipped is a single pickup guitar. SD jazz is a middle ground choice but I have had so many. I have owned Jazz, 59, Seth Lover. Not sure if I should go with a high output one or choose something that cleans up well. Don't really use neck pickups on shreddy guitars but I want to put something.



What is this "neck pickup" you talk about? You only need 1 pickup son.


----------



## Mourguitars

I put the BW in my franken Strat , Charvel model 1a basswood w/ maple neck/fretboard its not overly bright at all..i have it in drop C with 56-10 strings...man it love's the Archon with V30's in that mesa cab

The tone finder recommended it from SD...it sounds great...was looking for a DD to put in there...but had the BW laying around

Also have it in my SL2 jackson ....popular with maple neck thru...its not leaving from there , took a TB-5 out

I might get the neck BW for the soloist ..i seen a vid of a Custom Shop SL2 with BW's , sounded righteous

I think Lassie had a vid with a BW in a ESP that was alder or ash..that sounded great, if the BW had a baseplate like a Dimarzio i wouldn't think twice about putting one in my san dimas 95 Charvel that is alder..but it 's routed for the Dimarzio's ...have a Dominion in there now ...thats staying in there..its awesome

I didn't care for the BW in a Les Paul or my Dean USA 02 hardtail..that was mahogany / Ebony...i like the TB-5 in there , but everybody has a certain tone they are after...the BW 's suite me in guitars other than the Darker woods it seems...go figure

Mike


----------



## Blytheryn

Finally getting around to putting the one and only fitting pickup into my mahogany body/mahogany necked Daemoness Chronicler. Pickup should be here by the end of the week and quite frankly a little afraid of how great it will sound.


----------



## Blytheryn

And here she is with it in:


----------



## Steinmetzify

Blytheryn said:


> And here she is with it in:



How’s it sound? Good fit for that guitar?


----------



## Blytheryn

steinmetzify said:


> How’s it sound? Good fit for that guitar?



It’s an amazing fit. I can try and record something later. This guitar has a mahogany body/neck which is like perfect territory for the black winter imo. Highs are perfect, mids grind like a mother... and the palm mutes chug and bloom nicely. I forgot how much I loved this pickup. It always seems like there’s a certain “gross” filter over everything.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

So I've had the BW for a while, tried it in various ways, tracked with it for all sorts of things, etc.

It's not a bad pickup but it is rather modern sounding..too modern sounding. I have another guitar with Dean Time Capsule pickups in it and I really like that pickup. It's big, uncompressed, aggressive..and I've come to really like it. If I'd had more experience with the Dean pickup before I got the BW, I probably would have just gotten another one of those instead of the BW.

At this point I'm keeping the BW because I don't want to bother swapping out pickups, it's not bad just not amazing, it offers some tonal variety and when I layer both guitars it sounds great. I'd say the BW is a knife, cutting, narrow and precise. The Dean is like a hammer, it just smashes and fucks shit up. The mix of both does well.

Are the BWs bad? Nah. Are they great? Nah. Worth the money? Depends on if you like that sound or not. I don't regret buying them but I won't be putting them in anything else I have.


----------



## Steinmetzify

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> So I've had the BW for a while, tried it in various ways, tracked with it for all sorts of things, etc.
> 
> It's not a bad pickup but it is rather modern sounding..too modern sounding. I have another guitar with Dean Time Capsule pickups in it and I really like that pickup. It's big, uncompressed, aggressive..and I've come to really like it. If I'd had more experience with the Dean pickup before I got the BW, I probably would have just gotten another one of those instead of the BW.
> 
> At this point I'm keeping the BW because I don't want to bother swapping out pickups, it's not bad just not amazing, it offers some tonal variety and when I layer both guitars it sounds great. I'd say the BW is a knife, cutting, narrow and precise. The Dean is like a hammer, it just smashes and fucks shit up. The mix of both does well.
> 
> Are the BWs bad? Nah. Are they great? Nah. Worth the money? Depends on if you like that sound or not. I don't regret buying them but I won't be putting them in anything else I have.



Same. They sound beast in my RGA, but I’ve had a few different pickup sets in that guitar and they sound great too.

I like them enough to leave them in, but no burning desire to chuck them in any other guitar.

I’d agree that they sound a little ‘too modern’ and sound a lot better into my Orange than my Diezel.


----------



## Bearitone

Anyone compare these to a Mojotone Tomahawk?


----------



## Blytheryn

https://soundcloud.com/chris-bollyn/black-winter-demo

Here's two little riffs I just smashed out. Single track, no EQ. Nameless.


----------



## Edika

Bearitone said:


> Anyone compare these to a Mojotone Tomahawk?



I actually have a Tomahawk set and have put it in the same guitar. The Tomahawk bridge is really hot. I'd say maybe as hot as the Black Winter bridge. But it has a bigger low end and while it is tight, it's not as tight as the Black Winter. It does have a modern sound though and it does have a quite even EQ. The Tomahawk neck though is really really nice, quite bright but mellow at the same time.


----------



## Bearitone

Edika said:


> I actually have a Tomahawk set and have put it in the same guitar. The Tomahawk bridge is really hot. I'd say maybe as hot as the Black Winter bridge. But it has a bigger low end and while it is tight, it's not as tight as the Black Winter. It does have a modern sound though and it does have a quite even EQ. The Tomahawk neck though is really really nice, quite bright but mellow at the same time.


I’ll probably pass on them then. I like my black winters and don’t think i need something with a bigger, looser, low end


----------



## Edika

Bearitone said:


> I’ll probably pass on them then. I like my black winters and don’t think i need something with a bigger, looser, low end



Aside from all the other differences between the pickups I think the Alnico5 center magnet is playing a big role. I would say the Tomahawk is more organic and more neutral than the Black Winter. It certainly needs the right guitar to shine. In terms of tightness and clarity it is a lot better than various pickups I tried but yes it does seem fo give each guitar I tried a bigger low end. It is meatier sounding than the BW for sure. I mean if you have a relatively bright guitar it would work well. I had my Jackson SL2 that I had a Dimarzio Evolution set. It worked well in E but when I downtuned the guitar they were quite muddy and super hot. I put in the Mojotone set and the clarity removed dramatically but they where too hot. Plus that guitar had quite a huge low end response too so it didn't do it any favors and ended up taking them out.

From what I read they're putting out a Tomahawk MKII version where Dustie work with Mojotone to fix those issues. Jowever since you like the BW and the Mojotone pickups are quite pricey new then it's probably best to try them in person before buying. I know that's quite difficult as you'd have to find a PRS DW that has them stock.


----------



## kleinenenten

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> So I've had the BW for a while, tried it in various ways, tracked with it for all sorts of things, etc.
> 
> It's not a bad pickup but it is rather modern sounding..too modern sounding. I have another guitar with Dean Time Capsule pickups in it and I really like that pickup. It's big, uncompressed, aggressive..and I've come to really like it. If I'd had more experience with the Dean pickup before I got the BW, I probably would have just gotten another one of those instead of the BW.
> 
> At this point I'm keeping the BW because I don't want to bother swapping out pickups, it's not bad just not amazing, it offers some tonal variety and when I layer both guitars it sounds great. I'd say the BW is a knife, cutting, narrow and precise. The Dean is like a hammer, it just smashes and fucks shit up. The mix of both does well.
> 
> Are the BWs bad? Nah. Are they great? Nah. Worth the money? Depends on if you like that sound or not. I don't regret buying them but I won't be putting them in anything else I have.


This pretty much sums up my take on the BW vs. the Nazgul/Sentient combo. I love both, but they each have their strengths. Depending on the day, I prefer one over the other. Today, it was N/S. But if I'm doing anything clean, the BW wins hands down. It's an amazing pickup in its versatility, but requires you to know how to use it. The N/S is just pure brutality. Great for its uses, and I certainly trend towards those tones, but one-dimensional compared to the BW.


----------



## darkinners

Anyone know if you can get a Black Winter bridge pickup (6 string) with black Seymour Duncan logo?


----------



## KnightBrolaire

darkinners said:


> Anyone know if you can get a Black Winter bridge pickup (6 string) with black Seymour Duncan logo?


yeah, buy an LTD black metal and get a "blackened" black winter with it


----------



## darkinners

KnightBrolaire said:


> yeah, buy an LTD black metal and get a "blackened" black winter with it



So buy a pickup and get a free guitar, not a bad deal


----------



## Merrekof

darkinners said:


> So buy a pickup and get a free guitar, not a bad deal


But that's an OEM pickup and therefore not the real thing


----------



## KnightBrolaire

darkinners said:


> So buy a pickup and get a free guitar, not a bad deal


exactly, then you already have a stealthed out guitar to use it in


----------



## darkinners

Merrekof said:


> But that's an OEM pickup and therefore not the real thing



OEM as in different spec or even different manufacture? Is the very least sound different?


----------



## Blytheryn

darkinners said:


> OEM as in different spec or even different manufacture? Is the very least sound different?



I think it’s tighter and hotter.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Blytheryn said:


> I think it’s tighter and hotter.


ehhh barely tighter imo. Not really hotter from what I remember.


----------



## Merrekof

I was half joking about it, you know. I have an OEM black winter, I don't have the real one so I have no clue what could be different.


----------



## Blytheryn

KnightBrolaire said:


> ehhh barely tighter imo. Not really hotter from what I remember.



At least it’s blackened.


----------



## SubsonicDoom99

darkinners said:


> Anyone know if you can get a Black Winter bridge pickup (6 string) with black Seymour Duncan logo?


I spoke with someone recently who told me that SD were going to be offering the "Blackened" logo Black Winter pickups for regular purchase sometime soon. I'd check with whatever retailers you normally buy/order guitar gear from and see if they've heard about this and can possibly order it. I was planning on looking into it further myself because I really prefer the black logo on there.


----------



## slavboi_delight

I've been thinking about getting a set of BW in my eclipse. 
Not 100% sure though, had the nazgul/sentient combo in a mahogony guitar and wasn't too fond of them.
They are not too similar to the nazgul right? 
I love the JB and i like to have some "dirt" in my sound, being not too clean and hyperfocused like a fishman modern which i'm using as of now. 
Any help?


----------



## KnightBrolaire

slavboi_delight said:


> I've been thinking about getting a set of BW in my eclipse.
> Not 100% sure though, had the nazgul/sentient combo in a mahogony guitar and wasn't too fond of them.
> They are not too similar to the nazgul right?
> I love the JB and i like to have some "dirt" in my sound, being not too clean and hyperfocused like a fishman modern which i'm using as of now.
> Any help?


The BW set is pretty different tbh. Bridge has way less of that throaty/croak/nasal quality the nazgul can have, with more of a broad midrange. High end is a bit spikier and can be a little bit fizzy comparatively (rolling off volume a bit solves it). Low end is a little bit bigger. Cleans are livelier imo. 

Neck pickup is different too, more comparable to an alnico ii pro. Smoother top end, kind of woody feel.


----------



## slavboi_delight

KnightBrolaire said:


> The BW set is pretty different tbh. Bridge has way less of that throaty/croak/nasal quality the nazgul can have, with more of a broad midrange. High end is a bit spikier and can be a little bit fizzy comparatively (rolling off volume a bit solves it). Low end is a little bit bigger. Cleans are livelier imo.
> 
> Neck pickup is different too, more comparable to an alnico ii pro. Smoother top end, kind of woody feel.



I hear you. I'm trying to avoid having another pickup with a boosted high end. I'd rather look for something thicker without sounding too boxy in the midrange.
Less nasal is good though, for a change atleast.


----------



## /wrists

These are awesome, I have them in my edwards.


----------



## R34CH

KnightBrolaire said:


> Smoother top end, kind of woody feel.



Are we talking about pickups or booze here?


----------



## Blytheryn

R34CH said:


> Are we talking about pickups or booze here?



I mean they’re great qualities for both


----------



## Marked Man

I have finally joined the Black Winter Club!

Partially inspired by stalking this thread and others. I was happy with the stock Jackson pickups in my '92 Soloist Pro MIJ for years as they do have their charms for '80s riffs and especially leads, but I couldn't help noticing how great my other guitars sounded with various upgrades, so it was the A/B testing that finally drove me to do it. This Soloist was already one of my favorites, and only climbed even higher after getting this upgrade. Here's the low down:

Maple Neck Thru
Poplar Wings
Ebony Board with recent Dunlop 6100 refret
Black Winter Bridge
Duncan Parallel Axis Classic Stacks
32mm Titanium FAT block
Raw Vintage Springs (5)
Jackson JE-1200 active mid boost





Honestly, the Jackson J80C lead tone was already fantastic, but the rhythm tone lacked some of the razor edge and clarity I needed for thrashy playing, so that was the biggest benefit of the Black Winter. The titanium block also brings out the highs---trust me when I say this thing CUTS!! Scarifying....

I agree with some earlier comments that the BW is like a modern lean, mean upgrade of the Distortion, as is the Bare Knuckle Nailbomb (C) I have in my Charvel USA Model I. The Black Winter cleans up better than the Distortion and makes a very nice #2 clean sound possible in my Soloist, which is rare for older high output pickups. It's tough to choose overall between the BW and Nailbomb, but the Nailbomb is nearly twice as expensive, so that makes the default easy for most guitars.

I chose the Parallel Axis stacks because I dig 'em, but also because the lead wires exit from the side of the pickup rather than the middle, thereby making them much easier to fit in the old narrow routes for early '90s and older Soloists without modification. Like the Black Winter, they have a rather modern, hi-fi sound and match very well for a sophisticated package.


----------



## SubsonicDoom99

Marked Man said:


> View attachment 94615
> I have finally joined the Black Winter Club!
> 
> Partially inspired by stalking this thread and others. I was happy with the stock Jackson pickups in my '92 Soloist Pro MIJ for years as they do have their charms for '80s riffs and especially leads, but I couldn't help noticing how great my other guitars sounded with various upgrades, so it was the A/B testing that finally drove me to do it. This Soloist was already one of my favorites, and only climbed even higher after getting this upgrade. Here's the low down:
> 
> Maple Neck Thru
> Poplar Wings
> Ebony Board with recent Dunlop 6100 refret
> Black Winter Bridge
> Duncan Parallel Axis Classic Stacks
> 32mm Titanium FAT block
> Raw Vintage Springs (5)
> Jackson JE-1200 active mid boost
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly, the Jackson J80C lead tone was already fantastic, but the rhythm tone lacked some of the razor edge and clarity I needed for thrashy playing, so that was the biggest benefit of the Black Winter. The titanium block also brings out the highs---trust me when I say this thing CUTS!! Scarifying....
> 
> I agree with some earlier comments that the BW is like a modern lean, mean upgrade of the Distortion, as is the Bare Knuckle Nailbomb (C) I have in my Charvel USA Model I. The Black Winter cleans up better than the Distortion and makes a very nice #2 clean sound possible in my Soloist, which is rare for older high output pickups. It's tough to choose overall between the BW and Nailbomb, but the Nailbomb is nearly twice as expensive, so that makes the default easy for most guitars.
> 
> I chose the Parallel Axis stacks because I dig 'em, but also because the lead wires exit from the side of the pickup rather than the middle, thereby making them much easier to fit in the old narrow routes for early '90s and older Soloists without modification. Like the Black Winter, they have a rather modern, hi-fi sound and match very well for a sophisticated package.



That's awesome, those Parallel Axis stacks look great alongside the Black Winter in that guitar!


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Marked Man said:


> View attachment 94615
> I have finally joined the Black Winter Club!
> 
> Partially inspired by stalking this thread and others. I was happy with the stock Jackson pickups in my '92 Soloist Pro MIJ for years as they do have their charms for '80s riffs and especially leads, but I couldn't help noticing how great my other guitars sounded with various upgrades, so it was the A/B testing that finally drove me to do it. This Soloist was already one of my favorites, and only climbed even higher after getting this upgrade. Here's the low down:
> 
> Maple Neck Thru
> Poplar Wings
> Ebony Board with recent Dunlop 6100 refret
> Black Winter Bridge
> Duncan Parallel Axis Classic Stacks
> 32mm Titanium FAT block
> Raw Vintage Springs (5)
> Jackson JE-1200 active mid boost
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly, the Jackson J80C lead tone was already fantastic, but the rhythm tone lacked some of the razor edge and clarity I needed for thrashy playing, so that was the biggest benefit of the Black Winter. The titanium block also brings out the highs---trust me when I say this thing CUTS!! Scarifying....
> 
> I agree with some earlier comments that the BW is like a modern lean, mean upgrade of the Distortion, as is the Bare Knuckle Nailbomb (C) I have in my Charvel USA Model I. The Black Winter cleans up better than the Distortion and makes a very nice #2 clean sound possible in my Soloist, which is rare for older high output pickups. It's tough to choose overall between the BW and Nailbomb, but the Nailbomb is nearly twice as expensive, so that makes the default easy for most guitars.
> 
> I chose the Parallel Axis stacks because I dig 'em, but also because the lead wires exit from the side of the pickup rather than the middle, thereby making them much easier to fit in the old narrow routes for early '90s and older Soloists without modification. Like the Black Winter, they have a rather modern, hi-fi sound and match very well for a sophisticated package.



Man, when I put Black Winters in my Alder Soloist, it was too bright. I chose BWs instead of Distortions since Distortions are supposed to be brighter. But nah, still too spikey. 

Glad, it worked out for you.


----------



## Marked Man

MASS DEFECT said:


> Man, when I put Black Winters in my Alder Soloist, it was too bright. I chose BWs instead of Distortions since Distortions are supposed to be brighter. But nah, still too spikey.
> 
> Glad, it worked out for you.



The think the BW bridge is leaner and brighter than the Distortion bridge. I already have the Distortion set in two other Soloists, so I wanted something different for this one! The BW has its own character.


----------



## CovertSovietBear

KnightBrolaire said:


> The BW set is pretty different tbh. Bridge has way less of that throaty/croak/nasal quality the nazgul can have, with more of a broad midrange. High end is a bit spikier and can be a little bit fizzy comparatively (rolling off volume a bit solves it). Low end is a little bit bigger. Cleans are livelier imo.
> 
> Neck pickup is different too, more comparable to an alnico ii pro. Smoother top end, kind of woody feel.



I've been looking to swap out the Sentient in my 7 for a while now, but have only considered the liquifire, would you know how the BW neck compares? I played a liquifire 6 in my friend's ESP for reference and generally liked it. They too had the N/S combo but switched it over to a Dactivator/liquifire setup.


----------



## pahulkster

SubsonicDoom99 said:


> I spoke with someone recently who told me that SD were going to be offering the "Blackened" logo Black Winter pickups for regular purchase sometime soon. I'd check with whatever retailers you normally buy/order guitar gear from and see if they've heard about this and can possibly order it. I was planning on looking into it further myself because I really prefer the black logo on there.



Sweetwater has them. 

Recently got an EC Black Metal and liking the Black Winter quite a bit. Just a nice tight thrashy sound. It might be the hottest SD pickup that I have but it isn't out of control.


----------



## Neon_Knight_

CovertSovietBear said:


> I've been looking to swap out the Sentient in my 7 for a while now, but have only considered the liquifire, would you know how the BW neck compares? I played a liquifire 6 in my friend's ESP for reference and generally liked it. They too had the N/S combo but switched it over to a Dactivator/liquifire setup.


Have you tried the D Activator neck?


----------



## CovertSovietBear

Neon_Knight_ said:


> Have you tried the D Activator neck?


No actually, never even considered? Good contender?


----------



## Neon_Knight_

CovertSovietBear said:


> No actually, never even considered? Good contender?


I can only speak for the 6-string version, but it's one of my favourite pickups. In terms of EQ and output, the most similar comparison would be a Super 2 (similar enough that DiMarzio recommended Super 3 bridge + D Activator neck for one of my guitars). Lots of high end (which I like as it's better to take away than try to add...unless you like a thin/brittle tone), without getting shrill or "ice-picky". Tight, articulate and dynamic (compared to other pups of similar output), with more lively harmonics than some bridge humbuckers. 

A lot of people seem to overlook it, despite the D Activator bridge & neck being a really well matched set (in terms of output and EQ). I've never tried Liquifire neck / D Activator bridge together, but it seems a relatively popular combo, so I guess it must work.

If you really like the Liquifire EQ, you may find the D Activator a bit bright. I prefer a bright neck pickup like D Activator / Super 2 over the darker Liquifire / Air Norton.


----------



## Edika

I though the Liquifire 7 string version was quite bright sounding for a neck pickup. The Air Norton was darker and smoother/warmer than the Liqifire!


----------



## Neon_Knight_

Edika said:


> I though the Liquifire 7 string version was quite bright sounding for a neck pickup. The Air Norton was darker and smoother/warmer than the Liqifire!


I'd agree that the Liquifire is less dark/bassy than the Air Norton, but I wouldn't call it bright. For reference, the D Activator neck and Super 2 are brighter than the Evolution.

From DiMarzio's website (B / M / T)
D Activator neck 7: 4.0 / 5.0 / 8.0
D Activator neck 6: 4.0 / 5.0 / 8.0
Liquifire 7: 6.0 / 7.5 / 4.5
Liquifire 6: 6.0 / 7.5 / 4.5
Air Norton 7: 7.0 / 7.0 / 5.0
Air Norton 6: 6.5 / 7.0 / 5.0


----------



## Edika

I haven't played the D-Activator 7 string set. I had a 6 string set and honestly do not remember really well how it sounded. I do remember thinking it was s hot neck pickup and quite clear sounding

The Liquifire was in a bright guitar that probably contributed to the sound plus not sure if the 7.5 in mids is mostly high mids. I honestly was surprised when I played it and I was expecting more of a bass response out of it.


----------



## Neon_Knight_

Edika said:


> I haven't played the D-Activator 7 string set. I had a 6 string set and honestly do not remember really well how it sounded. I do remember thinking it was s hot neck pickup and quite clear sounding
> 
> The Liquifire was in a bright guitar that probably contributed to the sound plus not sure if the 7.5 in mids is mostly high mids. I honestly was surprised when I played it and I was expecting more of a bass response out of it.


Definitely hot, but so is the bridge!


----------



## CovertSovietBear

Neon_Knight_ said:


> I can only speak for the 6-string version, but it's one of my favourite pickups. In terms of EQ and output, the most similar comparison would be a Super 2 (similar enough that DiMarzio recommended Super 3 bridge + D Activator neck for one of my guitars). Lots of high end (which I like as it's better to take away than try to add...unless you like a thin/brittle tone), without getting shrill or "ice-picky". Tight, articulate and dynamic (compared to other pups of similar output), with more lively harmonics than some bridge humbuckers.
> 
> A lot of people seem to overlook it, despite the D Activator bridge & neck being a really well matched set (in terms of output and EQ). I've never tried Liquifire neck / D Activator bridge together, but it seems a relatively popular combo, so I guess it must work.
> 
> If you really like the Liquifire EQ, you may find the D Activator a bit bright. I prefer a bright neck pickup like D Activator / Super 2 over the darker Liquifire / Air Norton.



Oh very cool, thanks for the info! I don't think I'd mind the high end, that can always be EQed out, especially as I have nothing analog in my signal chain. Before going passives I had a lot of experience with EMGs and Blackouts and those always seemed to be super compressed with no room to play with.
My friend went with the Liquifire/D Activator route because they thought the mid-range on the Nazgul had too much snarl? That's what they called it and now says they like the new combo better.
Both the neck Liquifire 7 and D Activator 7 are ceramic so I'm not sure how much that'll play into perceived differences but they're worth a try.


----------



## hilljack13

Had a six string set and sold the guitar. Looking for a set in 7. Problem is they would go in and Ibanez so I'll need to mod the mounts, again.


----------



## Battle Axe

I am very excited about my black winters which I'm installing them into a very plain jane white Yamaha Pacifica turning it into a HH config. I can't wait to get it back from my guitar tech. should I change out the 5 position switch into a LP style toggle?


----------



## Neon_Knight_

Battle Axe said:


> I am very excited about my black winters which I'm installing them into a very plain jane white Yamaha Pacifica turning it into a HH config. I can't wait to get it back from my guitar tech. should I change out the 5 position switch into a LP style toggle?


Only if you want a 3-way switch. Quicker/easier/more comfortable to switch between neck and bridge humbuckers mid-solo, but less versatility than a 5-way.

I have three Ibanez guitars with HH pickups. One has a 5-way, one a 3-way and one a 3-way + coil tap. The 3-way + coil tap is my favourite configuration - most pickup options (6), plus optimal for switching mid-solo.


----------



## Battle Axe

Hey that is a great idea, since I'm installing a super cool pickguard(flames from hell) to have the coil tap option there nearby. This would definitely make it a different axe than a strat copy.....(i have a bunch of those)


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

Tuned my guitar with the BWs to D and I like the pickups a lot more there. They certainly have their place and I feel like they shine in that tuning.


----------



## Blytheryn

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Tuned my guitar with the BWs to D and I like the pickups a lot more there. They certainly have their place and I feel like they shine in that tuning.



I second this. I play my BW guitar in D, and it’s perfect there. E might be a little shrill for some - idk, Skeletonwitch make it work.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

Blytheryn said:


> I second this. I play my BW guitar in D, and it’s perfect there. E might be a little shrill for some - idk, Skeletonwitch make it work.



Yeah, I was disliking these pickups more and more since they weren't what they're really advertised to be but I guess this guitar just prefers being in D so I'll leave it there.


----------



## Blytheryn

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Yeah, I was disliking these pickups more and more since they weren't what they're really advertised to be but I guess this guitar just prefers being in D so I'll leave it there.



I mean most black metal tones are shrill and so on, so maybe on point? I’d never complain. Also I play in D 99% of the time so maybe I’m just used to how they react and sound in that register.


----------



## Battle Axe

I am looking forward to drop d tuning in this new axe... Will post pics when i get her back from guitar tech.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

Blytheryn said:


> I mean most black metal tones are shrill and so on, so maybe on point? I’d never complain. Also I play in D 99% of the time so maybe I’m just used to how they react and sound in that register.


When I think of black metal tones I think messy, super distorted, with that punk kinda feel.

These pickups are super modern, very tight and articulate..almost apologetic in a sense. The stock pickups I have in my other guitar do black metal how I feel it should be done. These pickups are way too tight and polite. Now that being said they aren't bad and in the right context they're good but that huge messy sound that I think of when thinking about black metal ain't coming out of these pickups. For that you're better off getting some cheap stock pickups or something. It's not like black metal guitarists were really finnicky about their humbuckers


----------



## SubsonicDoom99

Battle Axe said:


> I am very excited about my black winters which I'm installing them into a very plain jane white Yamaha Pacifica turning it into a HH config. I can't wait to get it back from my guitar tech. should I change out the 5 position switch into a LP style toggle?


Depends on what you're after in terms of switching options, but I have mine wired for three way, but I also like having them wired to push/pull pots for the option of series/parallel.


----------



## FILTHnFEAR

I just purchased an LTD Black Metal Viper 7 baritone recently(@High Plains Drifter I will be doing that NGD soon buddy, as promised. lol) and I love the BW in it, as well as everything else about the guitar.

Coming from mainly playing my 1527 with a Blaze and S920 with an 85x, it's quite a switch. And in a VERY good way. It's so tight, articulate and clear. And mean af sounding, especially through the Invective. Through my H&K Tube 100, they are a bit more jangly sounding but it's a sound I've not heard from that amp, and I am definitely digging it.

The cleans were really surprising to me, especially considering how aggressive they are under high gain. There is a bit of grit to them when playing clean and I actually really like it. Usually I like my cleans to be crystal. And when using my Keeley 4 knob I can get that with them when I want.

As @DrakkarTyrannis stated, they aren't very black metal to me being so clear and articulate but as I don't really play black metal, I'm good with that. 

So yeah, I'm loving these things as much as my new Viper.


----------



## Battle Axe

I have full shreds in my Les Paul... how do the winters stack up to full shreds?


----------



## kleinenenten

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> When I think of black metal tones I think messy, super distorted, with that punk kinda feel.
> 
> These pickups are super modern, very tight and articulate..almost apologetic in a sense. The stock pickups I have in my other guitar do black metal how I feel it should be done. These pickups are way too tight and polite. Now that being said they aren't bad and in the right context they're good but that huge messy sound that I think of when thinking about black metal ain't coming out of these pickups. For that you're better off getting some cheap stock pickups or something. It's not like black metal guitarists were really finnicky about their humbuckers


As with any metal genre, depends on the specifics. If you're going for Darkthrone style black metal, yeah, play whatever. Record it through one of those old Playskool cassette recorders. Success! (Note, I'm not saying I dislike Darkthrone, just that they don't go for hi-fi.) Plenty of other black metal has great production with stellar tone. As far as big names go, Dimmu Borgir is one. (Not that I love the new stuff, but whatever.) Black metal, like all metal, is a rather expansive genre that defies easy categorization.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

kleinenenten said:


> As with any metal genre, depends on the specifics. If you're going for Darkthrone style black metal, yeah, play whatever. Record it through one of those old Playskool cassette recorders. Success! (Note, I'm not saying I dislike Darkthrone, just that they don't go for hi-fi.) Plenty of other black metal has great production with stellar tone. As far as big names go, Dimmu Borgir is one. (Not that I love the new stuff, but whatever.) Black metal, like all metal, is a rather expansive genre that defies easy categorization.



Nah...they marketed it towards the "tr00 black metal" crowd and made it pretty clear that the pickup was aiming for that. In that case the pickup failed bigtime. 

For one, pickups really don't even matter in that genre but even if they did these pickups are way too polite for that kind of filth. That being said it's not so far off base that it's unusable or anything..not at all. But I think there are better options, so it's funny that a pickup with that marketing gimmick doesn't really hit it like it should. Not bad pickups though..just not really what I was looking for. All in all I think my stock Dean Time Capsule pickups do a much better job and sound fuller and meaner. But if I want something more surgical, then the BWs win.


----------



## kleinenenten

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Nah...they marketed it towards the "tr00 black metal" crowd and made it pretty clear that the pickup was aiming for that. In that case the pickup failed bigtime.
> 
> For one, pickups really don't even matter in that genre but even if they did these pickups are way too polite for that kind of filth. That being said it's not so far off base that it's unusable or anything..not at all. But I think there are better options, so it's funny that a pickup with that marketing gimmick doesn't really hit it like it should. Not bad pickups though..just not really what I was looking for. All in all I think my stock Dean Time Capsule pickups do a much better job and sound fuller and meaner. But if I want something more surgical, then the BWs win.


Never attempted to get a "kvlt" black metal tone myself, but I can definitely see it happening no problem with these pickups. I think they can get a little spikey, and paired with the right (wrong?) dirt pedal, would do old school black metal easily. I basically only play through SS Peavey amps like many old black metal bands, and I'm sure if I threw my HM-2 between the guitar and the amp, I could do those tones within seconds.

All that being said, they're far better pickups than JUST black metal pickups. They are the best clean pickups in my (rather limited) experience. But they aren't my favorite overall pickup. Those go to the Nazgul/Sentient combo. I don't usually do clean...


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

kleinenenten said:


> Never attempted to get a "kvlt" black metal tone myself, but I can definitely see it happening no problem with these pickups. I think they can get a little spikey, and paired with the right (wrong?) dirt pedal, would do old school black metal easily. I basically only play through SS Peavey amps like many old black metal bands, and I'm sure if I threw my HM-2 between the guitar and the amp, I could do those tones within seconds.
> 
> All that being said, they're far better pickups than JUST black metal pickups. They are the best clean pickups in my (rather limited) experience. But they aren't my favorite overall pickup. Those go to the Nazgul/Sentient combo. I don't usually do clean...



That's the thing..I think they kinda sold themselves short by trying to throw the black metal gimmick on it. It's a modern pickup that's well suited for modern metal. It's a very clean and articulate pickup so I think that should be the marketing.


----------



## Marked Man

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> That's the thing..I think they kinda sold themselves short by trying to throw the black metal gimmick on it. It's a modern pickup that's well suited for modern metal. It's a very clean and articulate pickup so I think that should be the marketing.



Yeah, but Black Winter is such a cool name, right? 

I don't play anything resembling Death Metal. The most extreme music I play is Bay Area style Thrash, and the BWs can easily pull that off.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

Marked Man said:


> Yeah, but Black Winter is such a cool name, right?
> 
> I don't play anything resembling Death Metal. The most extreme music I play is Bay Area style Thrash, and the BWs can easily pull that off.



Oh yeah..for thrash these pickups would kick all kinds of ass for sure.


----------



## LiveOVErdrive

This thread has been on the front page of the pickups section since I joined this forum years ago. Maybe I should get some.


----------



## Zender

LiveOVErdrive said:


> This thread has been on the front page of the pickups section since I joined this forum years ago. Maybe I should get some.


Well, they sure did something right with them. I don't own a pair, but have been considering them for a few years now to put in my silverburst les paul for a very tight, "rude and in your face" guitar, totally unlike my other instruments. But the current config in there also works and feels very direct. (Redid all the wiring to a high standard) 

.... maybe, if I find $200 in expendable income.


----------



## SubsonicDoom99

Battle Axe said:


> I have full shreds in my Les Paul... how do the winters stack up to full shreds?



Full Shred is a good pickup, but very different character than the Black Winter. The midrange on the BW is much more prominent and bold than the Full Shred, which is a bit more of a balanced pickup overall EQ-wise. The BW has considerably more output too and I feel like the mids & highs are not only more prominent but have even more of a full bodied clarity to them than the Full Shred. The top end of the Full Shred can get very bright depending on the guitar and how you're dialing it in. As much as I like the Black Winter neck pickup, I actually once paired up the Full Shred neck pickup with a Black Winter bridge pickup and I liked how they worked together. But for my tastes I prefer the BW bridge pickup over the Full Shred, but I tend to really like the bolder midrange so that makes sense.


----------



## Blytheryn

Marked Man said:


> Yeah, but Black Winter is such a cool name, right?
> 
> I don't play anything resembling Death Metal. The most extreme music I play is Bay Area style Thrash, and the BWs can easily pull that off.



Skeletonwitch’s “Serpents Unleashed” album is all BW’s.


----------



## kleinenenten

Zender said:


> Well, they sure did something right with them. I don't own a pair, but have been considering them for a few years now to put in my silverburst les paul for a very tight, "rude and in your face" guitar, totally unlike my other instruments. But the current config in there also works and feels very direct. (Redid all the wiring to a high standard)
> 
> .... maybe, if I find $200 in expendable income.


I'm not a pickup expert by any stretch, but "tight" doesn't seem to be the best way to describe Black Winters. I love them, and they certainly can work for "rude and in your face", but if I want something tight, I default to my Nazgul/Sentient equipped guitar. I'm not trying to dissuade you from the Black Winters, as overall, they're my most versatile pickup. But they are NOT my tightest by a long stretch, and I've only got a handful of guitars/pickup combos.


----------



## KailM

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> When I think of black metal tones I think messy, super distorted, with that punk kinda feel.
> 
> These pickups are super modern, very tight and articulate..almost apologetic in a sense. The stock pickups I have in my other guitar do black metal how I feel it should be done. These pickups are way too tight and polite. Now that being said they aren't bad and in the right context they're good but that huge messy sound that I think of when thinking about black metal ain't coming out of these pickups. For that you're better off getting some cheap stock pickups or something. It's not like black metal guitarists were really finnicky about their humbuckers



I get what you’re saying, but I feel that they work great for black metal; just depends on your style.

Really, I don’t think pickups dictate genre or specific subgenres at all. The BW set is high powered, reasonably modern, and has all the frequencies in abundance so they IMO kick ass for any style of metal. I’ve even used them for classic rock covers and received many compliments on my tone. Backing the volume off a tad will yield excellent hard rock tones IME.

The thing about black metal is that there are a staggering number of takes on how to do it. The lowfi, “punk/crust” sound is just one take. Maybe the BWs don’t do that sound as well, but they are excellent for most of the more modern styles of black metal or just “better” production black metal.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

KailM said:


> I get what you’re saying, but I feel that they work great for black metal; just depends on your style.
> 
> Really, I don’t think pickups dictate genre or specific subgenres at all. The BW set is high powered, reasonably modern, and has all the frequencies in abundance so they IMO kick ass for any style of metal. I’ve even used them for classic rock covers and received many compliments on my tone. Backing the volume off a tad will yield excellent hard rock tones IME.
> 
> The thing about black metal is that there are a staggering number of takes on how to do it. The lowfi, “punk/crust” sound is just one take. Maybe the BWs don’t do that sound as well, but they are excellent for most of the more modern styles of black metal or just “better” production black metal.


Their whole marketing gimmick has been raw black metal. Hell it even comes in a package that's supposed to look like an old BM cassette.


----------



## Seabeast2000

I have a set of these in an rgr652 using stock switching. Position 4 is inner coils, super lovely cleans. Try it if you can.


----------



## Neon_Knight_

Seabeast2000 said:


> I have a set of these in an rgr652 using stock switching. Position 4 is inner coils, super lovely cleans. Try it if you can.


Almost got a set for my RG652FX last year, for death metal in B standard. Ended up going with DiMarzio D Activators though, as they were cheaper (£125 vs. £210) and I was confident I'd like them (already have them in other guitars). I'm not disappointed at all, but keep wondering how the Black Winters would sound in comparison.


----------



## Edika

Neon_Knight_ said:


> ...I'm not disappointed at all, but keep wondering how the Black Winters would sound in comparison.



That's how they get you!


----------



## Neon_Knight_

Edika said:


> That's how they get you!


The D Activators are staying put for the foreseeable future. I really don't understand how they're not more popular (I'm assuming they're not one of DiMarzio's best sellers as they're slightly cheaper than most).

My next venture with pickups is to play around with Super D / Super 3 / Tone Zone / DiMarzio IBZ bridge + Super 2 / Air Norton / DiMarzio IBZ neck in my RG655 (E standard tuning). I've already decided the stock Air Norton is too warm and a bit smooth/weak for my taste, but I'm liking the Tone Zone more than expected in that guitar - it was far too boomy in my RG652FX even before I lowered the tuning (fixed bridge vs. floating trem being the key difference). I anticipate ending up with Super D + Super 2.


----------



## Edika

Neon_Knight_ said:


> The D Activators are staying put for the foreseeable future. I really don't understand how they're not more popular (I'm assuming they're not one of DiMarzio's best sellers as they're slightly cheaper than most).
> 
> My next venture with pickups is to play around with Super D / Super 3 / Tone Zone / DiMarzio IBZ bridge + Super 2 / Air Norton / DiMarzio IBZ neck in my RG655 (E standard tuning). I've already decided the stock Air Norton is too warm and a bit smooth/weak for my taste, but I'm liking the Tone Zone more than expected in that guitar - it was far too boomy in my RG652FX even before I lowered the tuning (fixed bridge vs. floating trem being the key difference). I anticipate ending up with Super D + Super 2.



I had some experience with the D-Activators. They came in a Ibamez VBT700 I got used. They were nice sounding if not a bit dark in that guitar but I'm guessing it had to do also with the fact they were quite far away from the bridge. I didn't notice that and wanted to try something different and replaced the bridge with a SD Alternative 8, that was quite a bit brighter in comparison lol!

The Dimarzio IBZ, I had it in another Ibanez I own and while it sounded good I wanted a bit more oomph and bass response from it. I replaced both with a Tonezone/Air Norton combo. The Air Norton sounds a bit too warm in that guitar but not weak. I also replaced the A5 magnet in the Tomezone with an A8 and it sounds great. That guitar is I'm standard tuning so I don't mind the increased bass response as it sounds massive!

Currently rocking a D-Sonic in one of my standard tuned guitars which I'm enjoying again with an Air Norton neck. As that guitar is really bright the Air Norton works better there.


----------



## Neon_Knight_

Edika said:


> *I had some experience with the D-Activators. They came in a Ibamez VBT700 I got used. They were nice sounding if not a bit dark in that guitar but I'm guessing it had to do also with the fact they were quite far away from the bridge. I didn't notice that and wanted to try something different and replaced the bridge with a SD Alternative 8, that was quite a bit brighter in comparison lol!*
> 
> The Dimarzio IBZ, I had it in another Ibanez I own and while it sounded good I wanted a bit more oomph and bass response from it. I replaced both with a Tonezone/Air Norton combo. The Air Norton sounds a bit too warm in that guitar but not weak. I also replaced the A5 magnet in the Tomezone with an A8 and it sounds great. That guitar is I'm standard tuning so I don't mind the increased bass response as it sounds massive!
> 
> Currently rocking a D-Sonic in one of my standard tuned guitars which I'm enjoying again with an Air Norton neck. As that guitar is really bright the Air Norton works better there.


I first used D Activators in my Ibanez XPT700. Did you find the D Activator neck dark? (it's one of the brightest neck pickups I've used)

With the Air Norton, I described it as weak more because it's lacking something tonally than lacking output. D Activator / Super 2 have more presence and cut. Air Norton is my lowest output neck humbucker though.


----------



## slavboi_delight

Considering them for about 2 years, but when i installed a Nazgul/sentient combo in one of my guitars, i yanked them out pretty much 2 days afters. So i got a little hesitant about the Black winters. Somebody wanna talk me into them?


----------



## MrWulf

I have a Black Winter loaded Banshee Elite and a Nazgul/Sentient loaded KM7. The Black Winter for the most part is better than the Nazgul/Sentient and it literally can do it all. The Nazgul is great as a bridge for low tuning metal rhythm but that's it. The Sentient to me is bland and wimpy as a lead pickup. But the Black Winter, both the bridge and the neck pickups, excelled at a lot of things and you'd definitely like it.


----------



## KailM

slavboi_delight said:


> Considering them for about 2 years, but when i installed a Nazgul/sentient combo in one of my guitars, i yanked them out pretty much 2 days afters. So i got a little hesitant about the Black winters. Somebody wanna talk me into them?



I have not played a Sentient pickup, but have a BW set in one guitar and a Nazgul in another. 

The Nazgul and BW bridge are pretty different, IMO. I know they are based on the Distortion but they each have a very distinct character. The Nazgul is a polarizing pup; people tend to either love it or hate it.

The BW; people either love it or are indifferent, as it is more balanced and doesn’t have a mid spike. 

The Nazgul can get clanky and is a lot less forgiving of mistakes. I find that my playing has to be on point or I’ll get a lot more string noise and/or it won’t get the type of chugs I want. I do love how it sounds though.

My Black Winter equipped guitars sound awesome no matter what, and require less effort to play. It’s got lots of low end, but not too much, and the mids are well represented across the whole spectrum rather than spikey in the 1.5-2 kHz range like the Nazgul.


----------



## slavboi_delight

That pretty much sums up what i hated about the Nazgul/Sentient. Nazgul being insanely obnoxious at times and the Sentient being somewhat underwhelming for a neck pickup. Splits almost unusable for me. 
Price tag for the BW set is a little harsh in my eyes, maybe if i can get them of ebay for a reasonable price i'll try them.
Output wise is there something comparable?


----------



## Edika

Neon_Knight_ said:


> I first used D Activators in my Ibanez XPT700. Did you find the D Activator neck dark? (it's one of the brightest neck pickups I've used)
> 
> With the Air Norton, I described it as weak more because it's lacking something tonally than lacking output. D Activator / Super 2 have more presence and cut. Air Norton is my lowest output neck humbucker though.



It's been a while and I don't remember about the D Activator neck lol. It did cut through though. I think the fact that the Air Norton being warm makes it sound somewhat low output while it's not.


----------



## Neon_Knight_

Edika said:


> It's been a while and I don't remember about the D Activator neck lol. It did cut through though. I think the fact that the Air Norton being warm makes it sound somewhat low output while it's not.


I think some people assume Air Norton is higher output than it actually is, due to it's relatively high resistance for a neck pup(12.5K*Ω*)...either that or they simply haven't spent much time with higher output neck pups. D Activator and Super 2 have lower resistance (fewer windings) than Air Norton, but far higher output, due to strong ceramic magnets vs. Alnico V. 

Air Norton = 270mV
D Activator (neck) = 385mV
Super 2 = 400mV

In fact, Air Norton is one of the lowest output DiMarzio neck pups that isn't listed on their site under "vintage output". All of the Vai/Satch/Petrucci models are higher output, as is PAF Pro. Conversely, the neck pups I routinely use are slightly higher output than the Tone Zone (which is 375mV).


----------



## TheBlackBard

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Their whole marketing gimmick has been raw black metal. Hell it even comes in a package that's supposed to look like an old BM cassette.




To be fair, it's not like ANY pickup will handle a specific genre all on its own. I'm sure if you used an old Peavey Bandit, or a pedal with too much fizz or noise, that sound would happen pretty effortlessly, depending on your playstyle. Pickups are important, but if they were THAT important, no one would have bought an Axe FX, they would have just bought a BKP pickup for Djent, and they wouldn't have bought a Peavey 5150, they would have just bought an EMG 81 to play metalcore, deathcore, or whatever the fuck.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

TheBlackBard said:


> To be fair, it's not like ANY pickup will handle a specific genre all on its own. I'm sure if you used an old Peavey Bandit, or a pedal with too much fizz or noise, that sound would happen pretty effortlessly, depending on your playstyle. Pickups are important, but if they were THAT important, no one would have bought an Axe FX, they would have just bought a BKP pickup for Djent, and they wouldn't have bought a Peavey 5150, they would have just bought an EMG 81 to play metalcore, deathcore, or whatever the fuck.



Pickups aren't designed to handle it on its own but it will help with the feel and tone. That being said the BW doesn't do it all that well compared to cheaper alternatives. For that kinda sound you're better off with stock pickups, possibly even shitty ones. The BW is the opposite of what it's advertised as which is weird.


----------



## Neon_Knight_

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Their whole marketing gimmick has been raw black metal. Hell it even comes in a package that's supposed to look like an old BM cassette.


I agree that it's odd marketing. Perhaps it was just SD's way of distinguishing them from all the other "metal" pickups in a way that makes them stand out to the "tr00 metal" crowd. They are a very different animal to those commonly used for traditional heavy metal (JB / Super Distortion), thrash & power metal (EMG / Blackout), or modern extreme metal like djent and deathcore (Aftermath / Black Hawks / Lundgren M8 / EMG)...even if they can do a decent job of all of those styles.
While not specifically suited to first or second-wave black metal (but can do that in the right rig), they are great for more modern/polished black metal, OSDM, technical death metal, melodic death metal etc. Marketing them for black metal is unlikely to deter fans of these styles, but it also avoid people overlooking them as another djent pickup (which are often marketed as being for down-tuned extreme metal, even though not optimal for most styles of extreme metal). 

Black Winters are apparently "Mayhem approved", yet Euronymous played a Les Paul Standard with stock (i.e. vintage output) pickups - apparently through a JCM800 w/ TubeScreamer. It seems it was common for black metal bands to record with a Peavey Bandit and perform with a JCM800.
Lo-fi black metal is achievable with pretty much any humbucker (I normally prefer to take away treble than add it, but thin highs are not really a problem for black metal haha). Same goes for doom (just need to roll off the tone and volume pots).
EDIT: Achievable with any humbucker, but it's probably optimal to have a cheap humbucker that does get thin and ice-picky in the highs.


----------



## kleinenenten

Probably a "duh" moment for many of you, but I figured I'd write a short PSA here for others like myself who are relative newbies at pickup switching and the various subtleties of pickups in general. I've had a love/hate relationship with the BWs in my RG7321. Clean - they're glorious. Distorted, they can be iffy and harsh. I just finished up an online degree, and now have some time to really dig in, so I spent a few hours the past few days comparing various guitars and dirt pedals and the various settings for them. Typically, I like to leave the settings on the pedals alone so that different guitars sound different. If I only wanted one tone, I'd only have one guitar/pedal/amp/etc.

Anyway, the BWs distorted have always sounded somewhat harsh to me, specifically on a few notes and even after countless hours of amp, guitar, and pedal knob tweaking. Did some digging to think about swapping pickups in other guitars, and decided to change pickup height. No dice - my pickups are directly mounted. I did the next best thing - I raised the string height slightly - maybe 1 full turn at the most - and BOOM! the annoying harshness is gone! Now, I just have to re-intonate the guitar for the new settings and all that, but totally worth it.

Now to contemplate which pickups I want in my other guitars...

TL;DR - If your BW pickups are inexplicably harsh, try raising the string height or lowering the pickups.


----------



## LCW

I ordered a BW so I can poach the magnets lol. Will put in my modded Full Shred.


----------



## Sumsar

The love and worship continoues. I just put a Black Winter 7 into my Schecter Blackjack 7 from the mid 2000's, replacing a SH4-7 JB. Much more mid focus without being djenty and much tighter lowend, again without being djenty. Just a great full sound with the fat cut away. Did a little demo of the two, ofcause including me talking nonsense for a good 2 minutes before hand:


----------



## X1X

You guys have probably seen these all but I really liked this video where you can do a blind test. I ended liking both the Nazgul and Black Winter pretty much equally even though they are quite different. I guess there really is something to these two pickups, I feel I really didn't have any prejudices before.


----------



## youngthrasher9

LCW said:


> I ordered a BW so I can poach the magnets lol. Will put in my modded Full Shred.


If you ever need to do this again, you can use an invader. It’d be cheaper and it’s the same set of magnets.


----------



## LCW

youngthrasher9 said:


> If you ever need to do this again, you can use an invader. It’d be cheaper and it’s the same set of magnets.



Good thought. Luckily this one was used and like $70


----------



## youngthrasher9

LCW said:


> Good thought. Luckily this one was used and like $70


That’s a great deal. If you feel like it’s a hair too ceramic-y, you could try an alnico 8 magnet too. I had an alnico 8 in a ‘59/custom hybrid and it was really awesome.


----------



## LCW

youngthrasher9 said:


> That’s a great deal. If you feel like it’s a hair too ceramic-y, you could try an alnico 8 magnet too. I had an alnico 8 in a ‘59/custom hybrid and it was really awesome.



Sure… I have some A8’s on hand as well. I’ve heard mixed reviews but have not tried it myself.


----------



## youngthrasher9

LCW said:


> Sure… I have some A8’s on hand as well. I’ve heard mixed reviews but have not tried it myself.


I found it to be a little loose for super down tuned stuff unless it was with hex screws. For D standard or higher it was very muscular and nice sounding.


----------



## Dudley

Anyone have an experience of using a BW 7 down in A or Ab standard? Very tempted to get one in an Aristides 7 abs just wondering how they hold up down a step or £ on a 26.5 inch scale.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Dudley said:


> Anyone have an experience of using a BW 7 down in A or Ab standard? Very tempted to get one in an Aristides 7 abs just wondering how they hold up down a step or £ on a 26.5 inch scale.


They hold up totally fine in low tunings. I had an LTD Viper baritone 7 with a bw and ran it as low as F# sometimes.


----------



## antareus

I’m looking to swap the JB out on my mahogany Schecter Blackjack C-1 6 string. Main complaints are the damn honk, the feeling of there being “one sound”, and it feels hard to get sweet sounding high gain tones out of my FM3.

I don’t expect a BW to fix all of these things (esp the latter), but it has intrigued me a lot WRT the musicality and the versatility of it. Would a BW be fine for hard rock and prog metal? Everything seems to point to yes, though I see lots of debates about whether it chugs well. That’s of particular interest to me since I’m an intermediate player at best, and will likely be spending a lot of time practicing metal rhythms with headphones on.

The other major contenders are the Omega and the DD. Everything points to the BW, but figured I’d mention those. 

Thanks for reading.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

antareus said:


> I’m looking to swap the JB out on my mahogany Schecter Blackjack C-1 6 string. Main complaints are the damn honk, the feeling of there being “one sound”, and it feels hard to get sweet sounding high gain tones out of my FM3.
> 
> I don’t expect a BW to fix all of these things (esp the latter), but it has intrigued me a lot WRT the musicality and the versatility of it. Would a BW be fine for hard rock and prog metal? Everything seems to point to yes, though I see lots of debates about whether it chugs well. That’s of particular interest to me since I’m an intermediate player at best, and will likely be spending a lot of time practicing metal rhythms with headphones on.
> 
> The other major contenders are the Omega and the DD. Everything points to the BW, but figured I’d mention those.
> 
> Thanks for reading.


Yeah it works great for hard rock/proggy stuff, when properly dialed in. 
Here's a recent clip I made of the BW. It's got a mix of 80s/hard rock riffs and some more modern stuff:
https://soundcloud.com/knightbrolaire/black-winter-vht-pittbull-100cl


----------



## antareus

KnightBrolaire said:


> Yeah it works great for hard rock/proggy stuff, when properly dialed in.
> Here's a recent clip I made of the BW.



Digging this quite a bit. Thanks for posting it. Love the crunch and raw tones. Praise the sun!


----------



## kleinenenten

antareus said:


> I’m looking to swap the JB out on my mahogany Schecter Blackjack C-1 6 string. Main complaints are the damn honk, the feeling of there being “one sound”, and it feels hard to get sweet sounding high gain tones out of my FM3.
> 
> I don’t expect a BW to fix all of these things (esp the latter), but it has intrigued me a lot WRT the musicality and the versatility of it. Would a BW be fine for hard rock and prog metal? Everything seems to point to yes, though I see lots of debates about whether it chugs well. That’s of particular interest to me since I’m an intermediate player at best, and will likely be spending a lot of time practicing metal rhythms with headphones on.
> 
> The other major contenders are the Omega and the DD. Everything points to the BW, but figured I’d mention those.
> 
> Thanks for reading.


 As a fellow "intermediate at best" player, I have no complaints with the BW when dialed in properly (and far enough away from the strings - see one of my earlier posts...). And I too, spend most of my time chugging away on metal rhythms. It can chug fine, though there are certainly better pickups for that. They're a little looser on the low end than many chug-oriented pickups. My main pickup combos in my favorite guitars are the Nazgul/Sentient and Black Widow. The BW is definitely more versatile, but also requires more tweaking. The N/S is simply a chug machine. If you need clean, the BW is far better for cleans. It really depends on what you want. I feel that for my typical needs (chugging and gain), the N/S is better suited and is nearly plug and play. The BW however, can do heavy well and various other styles just as well. It's clearer on high gain leads as well. I love them both, but if I'm just going for chugging and gain, I do prefer the tones of the N/S. For most anything else, the BW wins. But really, I like them both for having different tones. Both are great in their own ways.


----------



## Marked Man

kleinenenten said:


> As a fellow "intermediate at best" player, I have no complaints with the BW when dialed in properly (and far enough away from the strings - see one of my earlier posts...). And I too, spend most of my time chugging away on metal rhythms. It can chug fine, though there are certainly better pickups for that. They're a little looser on the low end than many chug-oriented pickups. My main pickup combos in my favorite guitars are the Nazgul/Sentient and Black Widow. The BW is definitely more versatile, but also requires more tweaking. The N/S is simply a chug machine. If you need clean, the BW is far better for cleans. It really depends on what you want. I feel that for my typical needs (chugging and gain), the N/S is better suited and is nearly plug and play. The BW however, can do heavy well and various other styles just as well. It's clearer on high gain leads as well. I love them both, but if I'm just going for chugging and gain, I do prefer the tones of the N/S. For most anything else, the BW wins. But really, I like them both for having different tones. Both are great in their own ways.



I was just playing my Soloist with BW today and thinking they are actually fairly loose on the bottom for a modern distortion class pickup, although razor sharp for leads. I tweak my amp slightly when I grab that guitar to optimize the EQ. I would say for the kind of tones I like, the BWs are some of the best lead pickups ever, and have some interesting kinds of rhythm strengths, although maximum Thrash/Chug is not one of them----I really like the BKP Ceramic Nail Bomb for that. And of course, the eternal EMG 81.


----------



## kleinenenten

Marked Man said:


> I was just playing my Soloist with BW today and thinking they are actually fairly loose on the bottom for a modern distortion class pickup, although razor sharp for leads. I tweak my amp slightly when I grab that guitar to optimize the EQ. I would say for the kind of tones I like, the BWs are some of the best lead pickups ever, and have some interesting kinds of rhythm strengths, although maximum Thrash/Chug is not one of them----I really like the BKP Ceramic Nail Bomb for that. And of course, the eternal EMG 81.


Yes - definitely better leads than my other pickups. But here's a thought I just had - maybe they're loose on purpose? If they were intended/marketed for black metal, which doesn't have much low end, perhaps it was made to have massive low end to counter-balance the traditional ice pick tones of black metal? I don't know, pure musing here. No proof or evidence at all, simply a thought!


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

As the days go by I begin to like the BW less and less. It went from "it's alright. Nice pickup upgrade" to "meh...I'm not crazy about it but I don't care enough to want to change it" to "yeah, I kinda want to get rid of this thing". I'm waiting on my new guitar with the SD Custom in it to see if I like that more. Maybe I'll get another one of those or something. Or I'll just get a Duncan Distortion and call it a day


----------



## kleinenenten

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> As the days go by I begin to like the BW less and less. It went from "it's alright. Nice pickup upgrade" to "meh...I'm not crazy about it but I don't care enough to want to change it" to "yeah, I kinda want to get rid of this thing". I'm waiting on my new guitar with the SD Custom in it to see if I like that more. Maybe I'll get another one of those or something. Or I'll just get a Duncan Distortion and call it a day


I get this entirely. I only have BWs because I heard they were awesome, and I found an RG7321 with them already equipped for $250 shipped. I was looking for another 7, and I couldn't pass up that deal. As much as I like them, I likely play that guitar the least of my 4 guitars these days. I find I prefer it for clean tones by a great deal, but I don't typically play those. I have debated getting a Distortion or Invader set for my other guitars. They're older, reliable designs for heavy tones. I may one day sell my old BW pickups and get something else in that guitar. It would likely be a Pegasus/Sentient combo to counter balance my Nazgul/Sentient in my other 7.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

New guitar with SD Customs came in...MUCH better than the Black Winters. I think I'll stick with those


----------



## STRHelvete

Random update. Come to find out, my gripes with the BW were due to a faulty wire. It seemed too modern sounding and not hot enough. Fixed the wire and it's super hot and aggressive. The modern voicing is still there but not so annoying that I want to replace it anymore. I'd still take the Custom over it any day but it's definitely not a bad pickup. It's almost "too metal" for what I do but it's fine. It's staying put


----------



## Seabeast2000

Black Winter forgives.


----------



## død

Installed one in the bridge of my ‘95 M-II, replacing the JB that’s been in there since it left the factory. Got to test it out during rehearsals earlier today, immediatly worked out better than the JB for what my band is doing (mathy metalcore in drop A#). Overall I didn’t mind the JB, but the spikey midrange and loose low end started to get on my nerves, luckily the BW addresses both of those issues. I need to play with pickup height a little bit more, but I’m a pretty happy camper so far.


----------



## Seabeast2000

I was unexcite with the bw7 I had but had only used in a few 5153 amps. Have since tried it on the mk3 generator red channel and it's one of my favorite tones. Just saying I have been educated.


----------



## KailM

Seabeast2000 said:


> Black Winter forgives.



No, it does not.


----------



## Neon_Knight_

Sorry if this has already been covered, but how different do the "Blackened" Black Winters sound?


----------



## Steinmetzify

Neon_Knight_ said:


> Sorry if this has already been covered, but how different do the "Blackened" Black Winters sound?



They don’t, it’s the same pickup with cosmetic changes.

I have regulars in my RGA121 and a blackened version in one of my baritones, same pickup.


----------



## Neon_Knight_

steinmetzify said:


> They don’t, it’s the same pickup with cosmetic changes.
> 
> I have regulars in my RGA121 and a blackened version in one of my baritones, same pickup.


Different pole pieces (double hex screws vs. slugs & fillister screws) is more than a cosmetic change. I would expect tighter bass and sharper pick attack. It's possible that they've done something else to balance that out though.


----------



## Steinmetzify

Neon_Knight_ said:


> Different pole pieces (double hex screws vs. slugs & fillister screws) is more than a cosmetic change. I would expect tighter bass and sharper pick attack. It's possible that they've done something else to balance that out though.



Haven’t noticed any differences sound wise, but hey fuck it, they’re different guitars. Haven’t had to change any settings tho? Maybe I’m super wrong, I’m which case hey, apologies man.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Neon_Knight_ said:


> Different pole pieces (double hex screws vs. slugs & fillister screws) is more than a cosmetic change. I would expect tighter bass and sharper pick attack. It's possible that they've done something else to balance that out though.


it's a very minimal sound change tbh. I've had both versions side by side.


----------



## død

Does anyone else use the BW in an H/S guitar? I’m looking to change out the neck pickup on my M-II, and need some recommendations for a single coil that’s not gonna be drastically lower in volume compared to the BW. 

I generally only use the neck pickup for dirty cleans and washy ambient stuff, so pristine cleans aren’t really a concern of mine.


----------



## STRHelvete

død said:


> Does anyone else use the BW in an H/S guitar? I’m looking to change out the neck pickup on my M-II, and need some recommendations for a single coil that’s not gonna be drastically lower in volume compared to the BW.
> 
> I generally only use the neck pickup for dirty cleans and washy ambient stuff, so pristine cleans aren’t really a concern of mine.


Maybe a BW in the neck split or in parallel?


----------



## Neon_Knight_

død said:


> Does anyone else use the BW in an H/S guitar? I’m looking to change out the neck pickup on my M-II, and need some recommendations for a single coil that’s not gonna be drastically lower in volume compared to the BW.
> 
> I generally only use the neck pickup for dirty cleans and washy ambient stuff, so pristine cleans aren’t really a concern of mine.


I'd probably go for a stacked humbucker to balance out the output.


----------



## bigsimpin

STRHelvete said:


> Random update. Come to find out, my gripes with the BW were due to a faulty wire. It seemed too modern sounding and not hot enough. Fixed the wire and it's super hot and aggressive. The modern voicing is still there but not so annoying that I want to replace it anymore. I'd still take the Custom over it any day but it's definitely not a bad pickup. It's almost "too metal" for what I do but it's fine. It's staying put



How did you know which wire was bad? My new BW set has been underwhelming, not sounding as hot or aggressive as my other guitars (like you describe), which I suspect might be due to my soldering.


----------



## STRHelvete

bigsimpin said:


> How did you know which wire was bad? My new BW set has been underwhelming, not sounding as hot or aggressive as my other guitars (like you describe), which I suspect might be due to my soldering.


I didn't. My tech did. I've had those pickups in for a while and the only way I realized it was an issue and not just the pickups sound is it suddenly started sounded great sometimes, then back to shitty other times. I told him and he fixed it after pointing out that it sounded like a wire issue.


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## Marked Man

Neon_Knight_ said:


> Sorry if this has already been covered, but how different do the "Blackened" Black Winters sound?



More Scandinavian, obviously.....


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## Marked Man

død said:


> Does anyone else use the BW in an H/S guitar? I’m looking to change out the neck pickup on my M-II, and need some recommendations for a single coil that’s not gonna be drastically lower in volume compared to the BW.
> 
> I generally only use the neck pickup for dirty cleans and washy ambient stuff, so pristine cleans aren’t really a concern of mine.



I think the Duncan Parallel Axis Stacks match well with the BW. I did it for my version of Artic Metal, my '92 Soloist HSS. They are also bright and clear, and look uber-cool together also...

And referring to another post above, wiring absolutely makes all the difference, as do quality pots. I have the same Parallel stacks in another Charvel, but the guitar has been devoid of sizzle. Took it to another shop and they said it was wired totally wrong, so they improved output, but still not the sizzle the guitar had before. The only reason I had the guitar in was because the original JE-1200 midboost died, so I had them replace it with an EMG SPC, which is apparently very challenging some low level techs. My next step will be to install a no load tone control for max treble, just the way I like it....


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## død

STRHelvete said:


> Maybe a BW in the neck split or in parallel?


 If I was looking for a humbucker, that’d be a safe bet, but this guitar has a single coil neck pickup, unfortunately. 



Neon_Knight_ said:


> I'd probably go for a stacked humbucker to balance out the output.


I’ve been looking into the SD STK-s6, on paper they seem to be what I’m after. I’m curious what a medium-hot output single coil would sound like, tho. 


Marked Man said:


> I think the Duncan Parallel Axis Stacks match well with the BW. I did it for my version of Artic Metal, my '92 Soloist HSS. They are also bright and clear, and look uber-cool together also...


These seem super cool as well, I’ve looked at them previously, but it seems like they’re out of production.


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## SubsonicDoom99

død said:


> \
> 
> I’ve been looking into the SD STK-s6, on paper they seem to be what I’m after. I’m curious what a medium-hot output single coil would sound like, tho.



Recently I turned a friend of mine onto the Black Winter bridge pickup, he loves it but he also plays an H/S so he was a bit perplexed as to what single coil would work best. I had suggested he try one of the rail pickups, either a Hot Rails or Cool Rails, but he said he wasn't really happy with the sound of those when he tried them in the past.
He wound up putting the STK-S6 in there and says it works great. From what I saw and heard it seemed like it held it's own well volume-wise when switching from the bridge pickup to neck position, and the STK-S6 had a nice high end that wasn't too twangy or bright. So that might be a worthy option to try?


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## død

SubsonicDoom99 said:


> Recently I turned a friend of mine onto the Black Winter bridge pickup, he loves it but he also plays an H/S so he was a bit perplexed as to what single coil would work best. I had suggested he try one of the rail pickups, either a Hot Rails or Cool Rails, but he said he wasn't really happy with the sound of those when he tried them in the past.
> He wound up putting the STK-S6 in there and says it works great. From what I saw and heard it seemed like it held it's own well volume-wise when switching from the bridge pickup to neck position, and the STK-S6 had a nice high end that wasn't too twangy or bright. So that might be a worthy option to try?


This is exactly the information I’m after, thank you! STK-S6 it is (once payday comes around)!


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## TheBolivianSniper

død said:


> This is exactly the information I’m after, thank you! STK-S6 it is (once payday comes around)!



I had SSL5s matched to a BK Warpig and they worked perfectly in terms of volume as well as tone. Very round and crunchy, clear under gain and certainly hot enough. They were true singles though, not stacked or noiseless or rails if that's what you want


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## død

TheBolivianSniper said:


> I had SSL5s matched to a BK Warpig and they worked perfectly in terms of volume as well as tone. Very round and crunchy, clear under gain and certainly hot enough. They were true singles though, not stacked or noiseless or rails if that's what you want


I’ve looked at the SSL-5s, they’re just very hard to come by in black, non-staggered versions here in Norway. Seems like a super cool pickup, and I’d ideally like to try a proper single coil. The aforementioned STK-S6 is apparently pretty close to the SSL-5, but maybe I’ll try to get a hold of the SSL-5, as they are on my short-list anyways.


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## STRHelvete

I've been playing around with the different neck pickups in my guitar. Dean Time Capsule, SD Distortion, SD 59, and the BW.
The BW has a Triple Shot with it and it sounds goddamn amazing. Cleans are chimey as hell and so pretty. Gain hits just right. I don't like the BW as a bridge pickup all that much but it's easily the best neck pickup I have ever heard. I kinda want it in all my guitars but since I don't use the neck all that much I figure it'll be fine in just the one. God DAMN that pickup sounds great in the neck position


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## Marked Man

SubsonicDoom99 said:


> Recently I turned a friend of mine onto the Black Winter bridge pickup, he loves it but he also plays an H/S so he was a bit perplexed as to what single coil would work best. I had suggested he try one of the rail pickups, either a Hot Rails or Cool Rails, but he said he wasn't really happy with the sound of those when he tried them in the past.
> He wound up putting the STK-S6 in there and says it works great. From what I saw and heard it seemed like it held it's own well volume-wise when switching from the bridge pickup to neck position, and the STK-S6 had a nice high end that wasn't too twangy or bright. So that might be a worthy option to try?



I'm tellin' everyone, the Parallel Axis Stacks! They can still be found online and look cool with the BW also. I thought I had at least one pic, but will have to take one. I also use the onboard EMG SPC sometimes to boost the mids for the Stacks for lead. 

I was just playing my old school Soloist Pro yesterday and thinking how well they matched. They have an authentic single coil edge/brightness to keep up with the bright lead tones of the BW bridge, although the BW is clearly louder and dominant as it should be. 

The BW is a rather odd beast and forced me to reduce the 240 Hz slider on my graphic EQ slightly to prevent mush during heavy crunch, only pickup in my collection that needed it. But it sounds great after the tweak, especially at stage volume, and has some of the most razor sharp lead sounds I've ever heard!


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