# ESP 2021 New Models



## Rotatous

Teasers for new 2021 models from ESP starting to come in.







New EC-1000 color "Andromeda Gold". I think it looks pretty rad.


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## Dumple Stilzkin

Rotatous said:


> Teasers for new 2021 models from ESP starting to come in.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New EC-1000 color "Andromeda Gold". I think it looks pretty rad.


Bring it on! 2020 had some really awesome models, pumped to see what’s new.


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## mlp187

Hopefully we get those new E-iis that were planned for July 2020.


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## jco5055

I want to see an ESP original 7


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## Rotatous

jco5055 said:


> I want to see an ESP original 7


And please make it 27" *crossing fingers*

Honestly I just can't wait for some more 7s in general, hoping for more E-IIs. Last year had some cool LTD stuff.


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## broj15

*crosses fingers* baritone viper with a non TOM bridge pleeeeeease


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## Steinmetzify

broj15 said:


> *crosses fingers* baritone viper with a non TOM bridge pleeeeeease



As in a trem version or something like a Hipshot?


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## Mathemagician

I just want to see more ESP’s using FB radii above 12”. Like anything 14-16” would be great. I don’t need 20” or whatever. Just my longtime nitpick.


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## Zado

Eclipse-II shape plz


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## angl2k

I hope there will be more guitars with the Andromeda II finish, it looks so cool. An E-II Horizon or Arrow NT with that finish is on my wishlist


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## broj15

steinmetzify said:


> As in a trem version or something like a Hipshot?


Either would be cool with me. If it ended up being a trem I'd just block it, but a hipshot or similar would be ideal.


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## I play music

Rotatous said:


> Teasers for new 2021 models from ESP starting to come in.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New EC-1000 color "Andromeda Gold". I think it looks pretty rad.


Now how funny is that! They already teasing 2021 lineup while some of the 2020 lineup is still not available 
Those frets look shiny, could be stainless steel


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## Dumple Stilzkin

angl2k said:


> I hope there will be more guitars with the Andromeda II finish, it looks so cool. An E-II Horizon or Arrow NT with that finish is on my wishlist


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## Kaura

Damn, a (7-string) Snapper in Andromeda Gold (along with the gold hardware) and I would be so ready to jump from Fender to ESP camp.


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## gunshow86de

Baby blue Stef 7 string please.


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## angl2k

Dumple Stilzkin said:


>



I have seen this model but it has a trem and I'm a fixed bridge guy 

Also, ESP calls this finish Violet Andromeda, not sure if it's the same finish as Andromeda II?


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## Crash Dandicoot

jco5055 said:


> I want to see an ESP original 7


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## Albake21

Can't believe it's already that time of year again. ESP killed it last year so I'm very excited to see what they have up their sleeves this time around.


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## nsimonsen

Would love to see an E-II Phoenix given that they brought the model back this year for the LTD line.


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## Musiscience

I play music said:


> Those frets look shiny, could be stainless steel



This is what I was thinking too, especially since they were introduced on the ltd range in 2020. But could also just be a fret polish right before the shoot. We'll see  !


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## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Crash Dandicoot said:


>



If only they would bring this to America


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## park0496

Or the glow-in-the-dark... I’m not too picky lol


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## trem licking

park0496 said:


> View attachment 85854
> 
> 
> Or the glow-in-the-dark... I’m not too picky lol
> 
> View attachment 85855


I will shit a brick shithouse if they actually come out with this. LTD pleaaaaseeee


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## Ikke

park0496 said:


> View attachment 85854



ESP could probably singlehandedly stop the coronavirus with a pink Stef or Horizon in general.


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## Crash Dandicoot

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> If only they would bring this to America



Thankfully we aren't in the 90s anymore - Japan is no longer some mystical, impenetrable market of dreams. Check out Ishibashi, Digimart, etc. They've got lots of support for English speakers.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

broj15 said:


> *crosses fingers* baritone viper with a non TOM bridge pleeeeeease








They did make one.


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## broj15

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> They did make one.


Oh I know. Its on my list of reverb search terms that I run through every few days.


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## JD27

And it appears Mike Schleibaum is finally getting a signature model. Looks identical to his custom shop he got last year.


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## mbardu

I play music said:


> Those frets look shiny, could be stainless steel



Not sure how you can tell just by those small images.

If that were the case though, that would mean ESP is back on the menu!
Please make a Maverick with stainless steel frets- that would be a perfect guitar!


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## MaxOfMetal

mbardu said:


> Not sure how you can tell just by those small images.
> 
> If that were the case though, that would mean ESP is back on the menu!
> Please make a Maverick with stainless steel frets- that would be a perfect guitar!



The ESP USA stuff has stainless steel frets. Highly recommended.


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## mbardu

MaxOfMetal said:


> The ESP USA stuff has stainless steel frets. Highly recommended.



They don't offer the MV-27 though, do they?

As far as I'm concerned, I would consider ESP USA for an Horizon (if the design was my thing) or an MV (if they offered it), but I feel like there are similar or better options for the M/TE/Eclipse choices they do offer.


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## Kaura

Crash Dandicoot said:


> Thankfully we aren't in the 90s anymore - Japan is no longer some mystical, impenetrable market of dreams. Check out Ishibashi, Digimart, etc. They've got lots of support for English speakers.



But don't you have to pay ton of import taxes? As far as I understand, businesses like guitar stores don't have to pay that so they can keep the prices reasonable.


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## MaxOfMetal

mbardu said:


> They don't offer the MV-27 though, do they?
> 
> As far as I'm concerned, I would consider ESP USA for an Horizon (if the design was my thing) or an MV (if they offered it), but I feel like there are similar or better options for the M/TE/Eclipse choices they do offer.



Yeah, the shapes are somewhat limited now, but they've grown considerably over the last couple years. 

They have an M7 with trem, and that's all I need. 



Kaura said:


> But don't you have to pay ton of import taxes? As far as I understand, businesses like guitar stores don't have to pay that so they can keep the prices reasonable.



Depends, but definitely not always.


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## nsimonsen

Anyone else catch Josh Travis rocking an LTD 1000 series 9 string in this?


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## Shawn

I love my E-II M-II NT7....really would love to see more E-II models.


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## Milchek

gunshow86de said:


> Baby blue Stef 7 string please.




The caption to this YouTube thumbnail is, "... and this pickup we just put in here for looks, I never use it, I'm pretty sure it's disconnected"


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## Velokki

Just been revealed, and daaaamn!

*LTD Deluxe MH-1000 EverTune in Snow White*

Equipped with Fluences, too. Count me in.


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## budda

JD27 said:


> And it appears Mike Schleibaum is finally getting a signature model. Looks identical to his custom shop he got last year.




I would buy a schliebaum sig if he taught me how to woop woop . Wicked player and a very nice dude on the occasions Ive met him.


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## gunshow86de

Velokki said:


> *LTD Deluxe MH-1000 EverTune in Snow White*



Now this looks really interesting. I wonder which headstock it will have?

I'm assuming cockstock is too much to ask.


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## sakeido

Velokki said:


> Just been revealed, and daaaamn!
> 
> *LTD Deluxe MH-1000 EverTune in Snow White*
> 
> Equipped with Fluences, too. Count me in.
> View attachment 86059



holy SHIT that looks nice!



gunshow86de said:


> Now this looks really interesting. I wonder which headstock it will have?
> 
> I'm assuming cockstock is too much to ask.


it sure is!


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## cardinal

nsimonsen said:


> Anyone else catch Josh Travis rocking an LTD 1000 series 9 string in this?




Super interested in that. Hope the scale is like the Baby Metal sigs.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

I'm just happy to see more people run away from Legator.


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## angl2k

Velokki said:


> Just been revealed, and daaaamn!
> 
> *LTD Deluxe MH-1000 EverTune in Snow White*
> 
> Equipped with Fluences, too. Count me in.
> View attachment 86059



I saw the preview in my mail and was getting excited.. then I saw that it's a 7 string


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## Velokki

angl2k said:


> I saw the preview in my mail and was getting excited.. then I saw that it's a 7 string



Oh shit! What the hell, I didn't even see that. I'm looking for another 6 string Evertune, and was confident in buying that. How could I ever miss the 7th string


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## LordHar

Velokki said:


> Just been revealed, and daaaamn!
> 
> *LTD Deluxe MH-1000 EverTune in Snow White*
> 
> Equipped with Fluences, too. Count me in.
> View attachment 86059



That looks real nice! Feature wise it made me think of this Solar model:

https://www.solar-guitars.com/product/a1-6vinter-pearl-white-matte/


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## Mathemagician

It’s 99% chance gonna be 25.5” and 12” radius.


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## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Velokki said:


> Just been revealed, and daaaamn!
> 
> *LTD Deluxe MH-1000 EverTune in Snow White*
> 
> Equipped with Fluences, too. Count me in.
> View attachment 86059



Highly unlikely but if this comes in 8 I am getting it


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## soul_lip_mike

angl2k said:


> then I saw that it's a 7 string



Kind of funny seeing this on SSO


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## jephjacques

cardinal said:


> Super interested in that. Hope the scale is like the Baby Metal sigs.


Hard to tell but the pickups seem suuuper far apart, I think it's at least 28"


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## possumkiller

Velokki said:


> Just been revealed, and daaaamn!
> 
> *LTD Deluxe MH-1000 EverTune in Snow White*
> 
> Equipped with Fluences, too. Count me in.
> View attachment 86059


All it's missing is a misha mansour burst over an unimpressive burl veneer.


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## Chanson

Not a new model necessarily but I've spotted a gold finished Ltd Sparrowhawk and gunmetal grey John Campbell signature bass in recent photos. Since they're both Ltd, I assume it means new finishes. Possibly some upgraded specs. The Sparrowhawk has SD's instead of Lace. 

Not the most exciting news, but that's all I've got.


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## Rotatous

Velokki said:


> Just been revealed, and daaaamn!
> 
> *LTD Deluxe MH-1000 EverTune in Snow White*
> 
> Equipped with Fluences, too. Count me in.
> View attachment 86059


Really digging that multi-ply binding. Hope to see more of that!


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## cardinal

jephjacques said:


> Hard to tell but the pickups seem suuuper far apart, I think it's at least 28"



28" for a 9-string is ok with me. It's the 30" stuff that I just can't play


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## Joe B

New Max Reaper for the Tribe!


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## mbardu

I was super confused for a moment there with the back and forth exchanges. Thought we were getting a 25.5/12 inch 9 string or a 30 inch 7 string. I need some sleep


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## I play music

mbardu said:


> I was super confused for a moment there with the back and forth exchanges. Thought we were getting a 25.5/12 inch 9 string or a 30 inch 7 string. I need some sleep


I'm all for the 30 inch 7 string !!


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## jephjacques

mbardu said:


> I was super confused for a moment there with the back and forth exchanges. Thought we were getting a 25.5/12 inch 9 string or a 30 inch 7 string. I need some sleep



finally, a 9 string guitar with every string tuned to the same pitch


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## alexanderhelling

I've been watching josh's twitch streams and he always describes what his signature guitar would look like. Now i see this picture from kerrag and i wonder could it be a new prototype. As far as i know there is no ltd currently looking like this


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

alexanderhelling said:


> I've been watching josh's twitch streams and he always describes what his signature guitar would look like. Now i see this picture from kerrag and i wonder could it be a new prototype. As far as i know there is no ltd currently looking like this



Yeah I haven't seen any LTD MH's with a reverse headstock. I'm guessing it's gonna be based on the Horizon he used for awhile now, but with a reverse headstock like the M-II he's been using pretty heavily for the passed year (?) now.

But yeah, about time Josh gets a sig model. Dude has been rocking ESPs AND LTDs religiously for a few years now.

Also the new protoype posted is "just" a bass.  Another Black Metal series bass, but this looks like it's gonna be a Mirage/Surveyer.


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## FitRocker33

The world must have a massive overstock of flat black primer paint because guitar companies are using the shlit out of it....


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## MaxOfMetal

FitRocker33 said:


> The world must have a massive overstock of flat black primer paint because guitar companies are using the shlit out of it....



It's sort of in the name "Black Metal Series". There's a certain aesthetic that they're trying to capture.


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## Chanson

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Yeah I haven't seen any LTD MH's with a reverse headstock. I'm guessing it's gonna be based on the Horizon he used for awhile now, but with a reverse headstock like the M-II he's been using pretty heavily for the passed year (?) now.
> 
> But yeah, about time Josh gets a sig model. Dude has been rocking ESPs AND LTDs religiously for a few years now.
> 
> Also the new protoype posted is "just" a bass.  Another Black Metal series bass, but this looks like it's gonna be a Mirage/Surveyer.



So basically just the already existing AP 4 Black Metal but with a slightly differnet body? Why? Ugh.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

Chanson said:


> So basically just the already existing AP 4 Black Metal but with a slightly differnet body? Why? Ugh.



Yep. I'm guessing it'll pretty much have the standard M/Mirage body and pointy headstock. 

Too bad Ola just beat them to that.


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## Chanson

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Yep. I'm guessing it'll pretty much have the standard M/Mirage body and pointy headstock.
> 
> Too bad Ola just beat them to that.



I don't think the single bridge pickup makes as much sense for a bass. Unless it's a Musicman style humbucker. Wish they could keep the aesthetic but offer different pickup options for bass. As always, guitar companies not being in touch with what a lot of bassists actually want/need.


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## budda

Chanson said:


> I don't think the single bridge pickup makes as much sense for a bass. Unless it's a Musicman style humbucker. Wish they could keep the aesthetic but offer different pickup options for bass. As always, guitar companies not being in touch with what a lot of bassists actually want/need.



You know about P basses, right?


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## Chanson

budda said:


> You know about P basses, right?



You know a P pickup isn't in a bridge position, right?


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## MaxOfMetal

Plenty of bassists solo the bridge pickup, just like guitarists. For what a lot of these basses will be used for, a single bridge pickup will be just fine. 

I also wouldn't pigeon hole ESP as strictly a "guitar company", thier basses might not be as popular in North America right now, but back in the 90's they were everywhere, about as much as thier guitars, and globally they produce and sell tons of basses, especially home market.


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## Chanson

I have never known metal bassists to completely solo the bridge pickup, unless we are talking about a Stingray style bass/pickup. Not trying to go off of a tangent too much, especially since this isn't on a bass specific thread, but I think the solo bridge pickup is a mistake for a metal bass. It comes across to me as just a lazy idea of copying the guitar's single pickup aesthetic, which is actually pretty practical and preferred by a lot of players. I just don't see a hear of bassists asking for just a bridge pickup in the same way guitarists do.


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## MaxOfMetal

Chanson said:


> I have never known metal bassists to completely solo the bridge pickup



After thirty something years playing bass, it's something I've come across enough to be noteworthy.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

Chanson said:


> I don't think the single bridge pickup makes as much sense for a bass. Unless it's a Musicman style humbucker. Wish they could keep the aesthetic but offer different pickup options for bass. As always, guitar companies not being in touch with what a lot of bassists actually want/need.





Chanson said:


> You know a P pickup isn't in a bridge position, right?



It's not actually in the bridge position, it's in the Music Man Stingray "sweet spot". Plus the EMG 35DC is pretty much a MM-sounding pickup. So it's going to sound more like a Music Man Stingray rather than a solo'd J bridge pickup.

Also there's some bassists known for soloing the bridge pickup. See Christian Olde Wolbers and Peter Steele.


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## possumkiller

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Yeah I haven't seen any LTD MH's with a reverse headstock. I'm guessing it's gonna be based on the Horizon he used for awhile now, but with a reverse headstock like the M-II he's been using pretty heavily for the passed year (?) now.
> 
> But yeah, about time Josh gets a sig model. Dude has been rocking ESPs AND LTDs religiously for a few years now.
> 
> Also the new protoype posted is "just" a bass.  Another Black Metal series bass, but this looks like it's gonna be a Mirage/Surveyer.


Dude, if that motherfucker has a reverse pointy headstock, that will be fucking amazing.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

possumkiller said:


> Dude, if that motherfucker has a reverse pointy headstock, that will be fucking amazing.



Itd be a dud if it didn't.  iirc all the in-line headstocks in the BM series are reverse so I'd be shocked if it isn't.


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## jephjacques

I use the bridge pickup soloed all the time on my jazz bass, it gets really tight and percussive in a way that's great for playing with distortion...much like with a guitar???????


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## MFB

When did Nergal ditch the HEX signature for this new Stream body? I really dig the bass version of the Stream, and his signature guitar isn't bad (despite another cliche inlay), I just had no idea he moved away from Vs.


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## mrdm53

https://www.espguitars.com/products/21001-ap-4-black-metal

A bass made by guitarist. Super simple


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## KnightBrolaire

MFB said:


> When did Nergal ditch the HEX signature for this new Stream body? I really dig the bass version of the Stream, and his signature guitar isn't bad (despite another cliche inlay), I just had no idea he moved away from Vs.


he hasn't used the v for a while


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## Hollowway

jephjacques said:


> I use the bridge pickup soloed all the time on my jazz bass, it gets really tight and percussive in a way that's great for playing with distortion...much like with a guitar???????


Yep! I have a Quake tuned to C#0, and I specifically wanted a single coil so I could solo the bridge in single coil mode to deal with that C#0 string.


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## JD27

MFB said:


> When did Nergal ditch the HEX signature for this new Stream body? I really dig the bass version of the Stream, and his signature guitar isn't bad (despite another cliche inlay), I just had no idea he moved away from Vs.



Yeah dude, you’re like 2 shapes late! He had an eclipse model for a year too.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

MFB said:


> When did Nergal ditch the HEX signature for this new Stream body? I really dig the bass version of the Stream, and his signature guitar isn't bad (despite another cliche inlay), I just had no idea he moved away from Vs.



Beginning of the year. Like, right after NAMM he began using it. He phased out the old EC and the Hex V and started using the new Stream and a TE-617.


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## MFB

JD27 said:


> Yeah dude, you’re like 2 shapes late! He had an eclipse model for a year too.





HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Beginning of the year. Like, right after NAMM he began using it. He phased out the old EC and the Hex V and started using the new Stream and a TE-617.



Well dang, OK then. I mean, there was only so many times I could watch the same video of him turning into the Anti Christ with some elaborate head-dress and shaky camera work; I've definitely fallen off the Behemoth train after Evangelist (really had to fight not to just call it Evangelion). Not to mention Nergal going around and making everything under the sun a Behemoth brand product (Behemoth coffee anyone?), or making as many weird endorsements as he can under the Nergal name.

That EC ain't bad though


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## possumkiller

MFB said:


> Well dang, OK then. I mean, there was only so many times I could watch the same video of him turning into the Anti Christ with some elaborate head-dress and shaky camera work; I've definitely fallen off the Behemoth train after Evangelist (really had to fight not to just call it Evangelion). Not to mention Nergal going around and making everything under the sun a Behemoth brand product (Behemoth coffee anyone?), or making as many weird endorsements as he can under the Nergal name.
> 
> That EC ain't bad though


You gotta diversify if you want to keep raking in heaps of cash during these uncertain times.


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## JimF

Can't speak for all of the merch-products, but wasn't the coffee a super limited run/PR stunt type thing?
Or am I thinking of the GOD=DOG dogfood they did?


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## MaxOfMetal

MFB said:


> Well dang, OK then. I mean, there was only so many times I could watch the same video of him turning into the Anti Christ with some elaborate head-dress and shaky camera work; I've definitely fallen off the Behemoth train after Evangelist (really had to fight not to just call it Evangelion). Not to mention Nergal going around and making everything under the sun a Behemoth brand product (Behemoth coffee anyone?), or making as many weird endorsements as he can under the Nergal name.
> 
> That EC ain't bad though



I can respect the hustle, dude gotta eat. 

But yeah, they haven't released anything worth listening to more than once in a good while.


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## musicaldeath

I keep thinking The Satanist was the most recent album and that it got released recently - but it was five years ago haha. That was the last album that had anything I really carried for other than Wolves ov Siberia (sucker for when they go back to their more black metal style riffs).


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## gunch

Nergal space program


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## eaeolian

jephjacques said:


> finally, a 9 string guitar with every string tuned to the same pitch



Bringing 'core to a new level!


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## JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo

alexanderhelling said:


> I've been watching josh's twitch streams and he always describes what his signature guitar would look like. Now i see this picture from kerrag and i wonder could it be a new prototype. As far as i know there is no ltd currently looking like this



The new Architects video has very few shots where Josh's guitar is visible, but it certainly looks like a new guitar. As far as I could tell from the one shot it's visible for like a second, it has a quilted maple top with an tiger eye burst. I've never watched his streams so if he described it as this, I'm game.


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## Glades

I’m still waiting for a Black Metal TE. It will eventually happen ...


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## JimF

OliOliver said:


> The new Architects video has very few shots where Josh's guitar is visible



Any idea of what bridge it had? Hoping for an Evertune sig model


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## IrvOnly

What beauties!!!! I would love a Black MEtal 7 string


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## TiffuZeless

IrvOnly said:


> What beauties!!!! I would love a Black MEtal 7 string



https://www.espguitars.com/products/21860-m-7ht-baritone-black-metal

https://www.espguitars.com/products/21032-viper-7-baritone-black-metal


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

OliOliver said:


> The new Architects video has very few shots where Josh's guitar is visible, but it certainly looks like a new guitar. As far as I could tell from the one shot it's visible for like a second, it has a quilted maple top with an tiger eye burst. I've never watched his streams so if he described it as this, I'm game.



So yeah, it's pretty much gonna like his Horizon but with a reverse headstock.


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## Lozek

JimF said:


> Any idea of what bridge it had? Hoping for an Evertune sig model



Looks like a TOM, string thru body. It's definitely bolt-on, bound body (looked like the binding might be pearl?), I think it's an M rather than a Horizon (the shots where I paused it, never saw any reflection to suggest an arched top). I thought it was one-colour, possibly see-through, but I did see the one shot that OliOliver's referring to where it 'could' be a burst.


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## feraledge

Lozek said:


> Looks like a TOM, string thru body. It's definitely bolt-on, bound body (looked like the binding might be pearl?), I think it's an M rather than a Horizon (the shots where I paused it, never saw any reflection to suggest an arched top). I thought it was one-colour, possibly see-through, but I did see the one shot that OliOliver's referring to where it 'could' be a burst.


Definitely an M. Not really a bad thing, but a bummer that it isn't a new Horizon sig with a burst, bolt on neck and reverse inline headstock. That would be sick.


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## Lozek

feraledge said:


> Definitely an M. Not really a bad thing, but a bummer that it isn't a new Horizon sig with a burst, bolt on neck and reverse inline headstock. That would be sick.
> View attachment 86531



Exactly, that would be an instant buy, so would a production version of his custom.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

Alright looking back at the picture posted a week or so ago, I can see the flat top now.  So it's definitely going to be a Mirage but with specs similar to his Horizon. 

I'm also thinking I see a bit of a cutaway? Like the M-1 Custom?


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## feraledge

I think it's just a standard M body.


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## JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo

I don't post often so no idea if these pics will work, but to answer questions:

Hard to make out on 1080p monitor, even with 5K video resolution, but truss cover seems to say "JM-6" which would follow ESP's standard naming conventions.
Heel makes it appear to be neck-thru.
TOM bridge with string-thru body.
Appears to be single volume set up, presumably push/pull for voicings. No idea what kind of pickup switch.
Fishman Fluence Moderns.
Definitely a quilted maple top/veneer.
Colour could be either tiger eye burst, or grey burst like some of his Horizons.

EDIT: Accidentally overwritten the first picture which was showing it as string-thru. Can't be arsed to go back and do it again, tbh.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

Yep. I'm a broken record like I said, but it looks like he pretty much combined his two favorite guitars; his Horizon NT-II and his M-II.


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## JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo

Can't blame him, it's a pretty sick mash up. My only downside is not liking actives, but changing pickups is easy as shit. Could be worth thinking about grabbing this one


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## budda

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Yep. I'm a broken record like I said, but it looks like he pretty much combined his two favorite guitars; his Horizon NT-II and his M-II.



Ah yes, the mythical MH. Wait what?


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## JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo

budda said:


> Ah yes, the mythical MH. Wait what?



That line has been dead to me since they changed out the cockstock.

It's kinda confusing. Why do plenty of the ESP/E-II Horizon series (or H for short) have 6 in-line headstocks or cock stocks, but the LTD H series (or Horizon for long) have those fugly ass 3x3?


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## Zhysick

"Cockstock or die". That was written in stone many millenniums ago


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

budda said:


> Ah yes, the mythical MH. Wait what?



Shut up. 

To be fair they don't make MH's with reverse headstocks. Plus this is looking like it'll have the body of the M-II he used plus the aesthetic/features of his Horizon NT.


----------



## FitRocker33

I know this isn’t likely but if they made an E-II level Josh Middleton sig, it would be instant boner town at my house. Love his ESP’s and he’s such a talented and seemingly down to earth guy. He’s almost like the UK version of Matt Heafy lol.


----------



## feraledge

feraledge said:


> Definitely an M. Not really a bad thing, but a bummer that it isn't a new Horizon sig with a burst, bolt on neck and reverse inline headstock. That would be sick.
> View attachment 86531


Reposting that because it's definitely bolt on. If it's extra thin U that's going to be sick. But looks to me like it's his sig and will be see thru black. And will be killer.


----------



## sakeido

musicaldeath said:


> I keep thinking The Satanist was the most recent album and that it got released recently - but it was five years ago haha. That was the last album that had anything I really carried for other than Wolves ov Siberia (sucker for when they go back to their more black metal style riffs).



I for one fuckin LOVE their new style but the old shit is still next level. The nicest part of them softening up a bit - they sell more, they got more budget. The live shows for the last tour were sooooo sick


----------



## musicaldeath

sakeido said:


> I for one fuckin LOVE their new style but the old shit is still next level. The nicest part of them softening up a bit - they sell more, they got more budget. The live shows for the last tour were sooooo sick



The 2018 tour was cool. The venue in Edmonton kind of sucked but oh well. The rest was awesome.


----------



## Zado

https://www.espguitars.com/pages/py...2whw9kyHak8K_EUOP8NC5fweYmROF1vnvJBjoGB0VVr20


----------



## yan12

Those are pretty sweet...not much for skulls but I really dig that M1.


----------



## Dumple Stilzkin

Zado said:


> https://www.espguitars.com/pages/py...2whw9kyHak8K_EUOP8NC5fweYmROF1vnvJBjoGB0VVr20


I wouldn’t want to own any of those. But damn are they cool or what?


----------



## Mathemagician

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Shut up.
> 
> To be fair they don't make MH's with reverse headstocks. Plus this is looking like it'll have the body of the M-II he used plus the aesthetic/features of his Horizon NT.





feraledge said:


> Reposting that because it's definitely bolt on. If it's extra thin U that's going to be sick. But looks to me like it's his sig and will be see thru black. And will be killer.



I’m hoping it’s the Bolt on M neck “extra thin flat” but extra thin U is also great. More importantly hoping the radius is closer to 14” or 16” instead of the H/MH usual 12”.


----------



## mbardu

Dumple Stilzkin said:


> I wouldn’t want to own any of those. But damn are they cool or what?



If I had good $$$, then I'd pay good $$$ for the Great Wave one.


----------



## Zhysick

The Great Wave... I'm poor so I will have to learn to be happy with the IKEA canvas...


----------



## gunshow86de

This is gorgeous, would have been even better if they used a blue stain to match the original painting.


----------



## soul_lip_mike

Only 10 produced? I can only imagine the price.


----------



## possumkiller

Hideous


----------



## narad

That's so well-suited to the guitar shape that I have to give them props, but that print is so cliche at this point. It'd be like getting the Mona Lisa on a guitar or "I <3 NY".


----------



## KnightBrolaire

ugghh, there's so many other cool hokusai pieces besides great wave, like this one:


----------



## mbardu

soul_lip_mike said:


> Only 10 produced? I can only imagine the price.



At least tree fiddy I bet


----------



## Masoo2

Seeing something like that makes me wonder why more companies or even luthiers don't experiment around with laser etching. Shouldn't cost too much at all to mass produce designs not dissimilar to those above, it's something you can do in a basic laser cutter and then just finish over.


----------



## spudmunkey

Masoo2 said:


> Seeing something like that makes me wonder why more companies or even luthiers don't experiment around with laser etching. Shouldn't cost too much at all to mass produce designs not dissimilar to those above, it's something you can do in a basic laser cutter and then just finish over.



That's what makes the "weave" pattern in the shovel on the EBMM Majesty, right?


----------



## soul_lip_mike

mbardu said:


> At least tree fiddy I bet



Axe Palace said: "$7999 for the M-I and M-III, $8999 for the TE."


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

soul_lip_mike said:


> Axe Palace said: "$7999 for the M-I and M-III, $8999 for the TE."



SSO: $6000 for the Adam Jones sig is too much
ESP: Hold my Sake


----------



## mbardu

soul_lip_mike said:


> Axe Palace said: "$7999 for the M-I and M-III, $8999 for the TE."



Whelp guess I just have to be rich. Why didn't I think of that!


----------



## Vyn

soul_lip_mike said:


> Axe Palace said: "$7999 for the M-I and M-III, $8999 for the TE."



...Yeah, they're functional art at that point.


----------



## possumkiller

Vyn said:


> ...Yeah, they're functional art at that point.


Why bother with the functional part? Nobody will play it anyway.


----------



## Zhysick

possumkiller said:


> Why bother with the functional part? Nobody will play it anyway.



I would... but I'm poor so nobody cares what would I do because I will never have it


----------



## Mathemagician

Any leaks of the new MH sig? Moar pictures ESP!


----------



## KnightBrolaire

This sig is basically a black metal TE, so naturally I love it.


----------



## Shawn

Velokki said:


> Just been revealed, and daaaamn!
> 
> *LTD Deluxe MH-1000 EverTune in Snow White*
> 
> Equipped with Fluences, too. Count me in.
> View attachment 86059


Yes!


----------



## Spicypickles

KnightBrolaire said:


> This sig is basically a black metal TE, so naturally I love it.
> View attachment 86701


Sig for who? Looks great though


----------



## MFB

Spicypickles said:


> Sig for who? Looks great though



According to the text right below it, Alan Ashby from Of Mice and Men; no clue who he is, but that's a good lookin' guit


----------



## JD27

KnightBrolaire said:


> This sig is basically a black metal TE, so naturally I love it.
> View attachment 86701



That’s been out for a year or two. It is cool looking though.


----------



## Spicypickles

Yea never heard of him/them.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands




----------



## Restarted

GAS triggered. I usually don't prefer black guitars unless they have a figured top, but I think this one just took the #1 spot of my current favorite production guitars


----------



## possumkiller

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> View attachment 86885


Fuckin alright man! Another black eclipse! Nice!


----------



## Blytheryn

narad said:


> That's so well-suited to the guitar shape that I have to give them props, but that print is so cliche at this point. It'd be like getting the Mona Lisa on a guitar or "I <3 NY".



All I want is an M-I with the 90’s cup pattern.


----------



## Andromalia

OliOliver said:


> It's kinda confusing. Why do plenty of the ESP/E-II Horizon series (or H for short) have 6 in-line headstocks or cock stocks, but the LTD H series (or Horizon for long) have those fugly ass 3x3?



That's called brand separation, you keep the desired features for the higher margin items even if said feature doesn't cost anything. It's like option X (say, glass roof)being flat unavailable on an entry level trim car. You must pay extra for a higher trim level before being even allowed to pay for the option, even if said option in no way technicallyrequires anything from the trim upgrade. (that's why I took the roof as an exemple)


----------



## Zhysick

I just want a LTD 400 series M-I with just a bridge pickup and a TOM bridge... or even a 200 series... or a 1000 series and I will find the money. 

LTD M-I WITH TOM BRIDGE AND THIN U (or extra Thin U) NECK.

THAT'S IT

I don't mind if it's black... would prefer it white, or pink, or red... but wouldn't mind it black.


----------



## possumkiller

Zhysick said:


> I just want a LTD 400 series M-I with just a bridge pickup and a TOM bridge... or even a 200 series... or a 1000 series and I will find the money.
> 
> LTD M-I WITH TOM BRIDGE AND THIN U (or extra Thin U) NECK.
> 
> THAT'S IT
> 
> I don't mind if it's black... would prefer it white, or pink, or red... but wouldn't mind it black.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

I know the new teaser isn;t anything SUPER exciting, but I'm finally glad to get an LTD version of the old Paul Landers Eclipse.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I know the new teaser isn;t anything SUPER exciting, but I'm finally glad to get an LTD version of the old Paul Landers Eclipse.



I didn't even read your comment I just got excited that the E1 was coming back to NA, but then I read it and now I'm sad.


----------



## Forkface

possumkiller said:


> View attachment 86902


does that say M-10??
if so its probably gonna be hella cheap and i might just get one for the hell of it. maybe to try a diy refinish or something lmao.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

MaxOfMetal said:


> I didn't even read your comment I just got excited that the E1 was coming back to NA, but then I read it and now I'm sad.



Whoops. 

Trust me I would have lost my shit as well. I miss the 4-knob, narrow cutaway.


----------



## Zhysick

possumkiller said:


> View attachment 86902



But it's not in production anymore. Now is the MH10 and I don't want the carved top... If I could find one in stock in Europe I would buy one just now but it's not available in any shop I know.


----------



## possumkiller

Zhysick said:


> But it's not in production anymore. Now is the MH10 and I don't want the carved top... If I could find one in stock in Europe I would buy one just now but it's not available in any shop I know.


They quit making them for some reason.


----------



## Musiscience

All these new teasers seem to have these shiny shiny frets on them. Can't wait for the catalog to confirm if they are SS or not. Might have trouble resisting a 7 string LTD if that's the case.


----------



## Dudley

Making the same wish as every other year for the past decade... full thickness silverburst Eclipse in the E-II range. 

The Australian exclusive run from a while back was killer and I’m still kicking myself for missing out on it.


----------



## feraledge

I want a black metal MH. It's not a big ask.


----------



## Derek Spear

Not sure if this should go here or in the Standard Guitars forum:

https://espguitars.co.jp/information/17549/


----------



## mlp187

Damn that looks really cool. I have no familiarity with whatever cartoon it represents though.


----------



## Derek Spear

mlp187 said:


> Damn that looks really cool. I have no familiarity with whatever cartoon it represents though.


Hatsune Miku is a Japanese virtual singer based on Yamaha's Vocaloid software.


----------



## mlp187

Holy hell. We’re definitely living in the future. Neat!


----------



## slan

dspear732 said:


> Not sure if this should go here or in the Standard Guitars forum:
> 
> https://espguitars.co.jp/information/17549/



I'd pay money to see Nergal play one of those at a Behemoth gig.


----------



## Derek Spear

mlp187 said:


> Holy hell. We’re definitely living in the future. Neat!


The software is pretty interesting and fun to play around with. I used it cover a BABYMETAL song a few months ago:

https://soundcloud.com/dspear237/catch-me-if-you-can-miku-nt-prototype


----------



## Kaura

dspear732 said:


> Not sure if this should go here or in the Standard Guitars forum:
> 
> https://espguitars.co.jp/information/17549/



That's fucking rad but I bet they're like $4999,99 minimum.


----------



## Forkface

mlp187 said:


> Holy hell. We’re definitely living in the future. Neat!


----------



## mlp187

dspear732 said:


> The software is pretty interesting and fun to play around with. I used it cover a BABYMETAL song a few months ago:
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/dspear237/catch-me-if-you-can-miku-nt-prototype


I love your tone! Well done!


----------



## Derek Spear

Kaura said:


> That's fucking rad but I bet they're like $4999,99 minimum.


Yeah, I suspect it'll be pretty pricey considering the ESP logo.


----------



## Derek Spear

mlp187 said:


> I love your tone! Well done!


Thanks...after many years of using various amp sims, I finally decided to sell a kidney and pull the plug on a Dual Recto.


----------



## Bodes

That cartoon guitar is both the worst and best guitar aesthetically ever!
Me likey!


----------



## Zhysick

dspear732 said:


> The software is pretty interesting and fun to play around with. I used it cover a BABYMETAL song a few months ago:
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/dspear237/catch-me-if-you-can-miku-nt-prototype



THAT'S A FUCKING AMAZING COVER MAN!!

Great job there!! And Miku singing is... cute? It sounds sweeter than the Babymetal girls. Great cover!


----------



## Derek Spear

Zhysick said:


> THAT'S A FUCKING AMAZING COVER MAN!!
> 
> Great job there!! And Miku singing is... cute? It sounds sweeter than the Babymetal girls. Great cover!


Thanks, it's my favorite song of theirs...tried to do it justice. Well, the software doesn't do atonal yelling/shouting very well...so I took a bit of creative license with the pitch of the vocal notes. I do agree that it sounds "cuter" as a result.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands




----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Oh lawdy, here comes the mystic dream/color shift/chameleon finishes


----------



## angl2k

Ugh, why did they have to make it a satin finish... I hate satin finishes.


----------



## narad

dspear732 said:


> Not sure if this should go here or in the Standard Guitars forum:
> 
> https://espguitars.co.jp/information/17549/



Looks like ESP was bummed they didn't get to do an Evangelion collaboration


----------



## maximummetal288

Phase 1 2021 preview is up on the ESP site now: https://www.espguitars.com/pages/2021-product-preview-1

Really digging that M-4 Black Metal bass and the TE-1000 Koa


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Does anyone know if we'll actually be getting any E-IIs this year?


----------



## Forkface

maximummetal288 said:


> Phase 1 2021 preview is up on the ESP site now: https://www.espguitars.com/pages/2021-product-preview-1
> 
> Really digging that M-4 Black Metal bass and the TE-1000 Koa


fuck me that black metal arrow is nuts.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

MaxOfMetal said:


> Does anyone know if we'll actually be getting any E-IIs this year?



Maybe in the later phases. But it seems like in the passed few years, ESP has been focusing less and less on the higher end offerings here in the states. 
But man, those new Black Metals. The single-pickup EC. And the single pickup Snapper. Lawdy.


----------



## I play music

STAINLESS STEEL FRETS EVERYWHERE !!!

except Xtone it seems.


----------



## I play music

Those EC-1000T are everything a Les Paul should be. Damn I want one and I don't even like Les Pauls usually!


----------



## mbardu

I play music said:


> STAINLESS STEEL FRETS EVERYWHERE !!!
> 
> except Xtone it seems.



Better late than never!


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Trans red + gold is always a winning combo. It's legit my favorite combo on a Les Paul Custom.


----------



## slan

Yes, please.


----------



## mlp187

That andromeda gold ec-1000 is a winner. And I’ll take that CAR arrow too, inlays and all! 
Still holding out hope for a sparkly blue E-ii H7


----------



## Andromalia

narad said:


> Looks like ESP was bummed they didn't get to do an Evangelion collaboration


To be fair, Fender did a pretty good job out of it, and although it's limited production it was available at a reasonable price. Which an ESP EVA guitar certainly wouldn't have been. Too bad it's the year I'm short on guitar money.


----------



## Viginez

MaxOfMetal said:


> Does anyone know if we'll actually be getting any E-IIs this year?


i predicted the e-ii series will fail, but could be wrong. time will tell


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Viginez said:


> i predicted the e-ii series will fail, but could be wrong. time will tell



Apparently they've been doing so well they can't keep up with production, so they haven't been adding more since they're about 18 months (as of last year) behind on existing E-II orders from dealers. 

If they've whittled that down to ~6 months maybe we'll see new stuff.


----------



## Viginez

MaxOfMetal said:


> Apparently they've been doing so well they can't keep up with production.


i dunno, haven't seen that many ngd's that would suggest this...
most esp-threads i know basically disappeared with the tranfer to e-ii...


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Viginez said:


> i dunno, haven't seen that many ngd's that would suggest this...



I wouldn't base anything on NGDs. Not every guitarist is active on the forums, especially here.


----------



## JD27

I’m sure they are doing just fine. E-II was so behind on production last NAMM that they delayed the new releases and that was before COVID.


----------



## I play music

This preview has me exited for 7 strings, multiscales and baritones, hope next preview will have something here. 
Has ESP ever made a guitar with a scale longer than 28"?


----------



## Apex1rg7x

It came out of the mouth of one of the higher ups at ESP last year just before NAMM that there would be no new E-II's. It was because of the backlog and inability to fulfill orders. The E-II has been anything but a failure.


----------



## Mathemagician

I think once everyone realized they were the exact same quality as the old standard line everyone just got over it. They make great guitars that are essentially more modern takes on classics. Its a great spot to be as the audience is less fickle than say the next Djent/scene fanned fret 8 string trend.


----------



## RobDobble6S7

Wish I had 1200 to throw around. If I had that much to shake my djent stick at I'd get a pc


----------



## bassplayer8

I've been wanting to get the LTD black metal arrow for a while but I've always been hesitant due to not really needing aother floyd. Glad to see they made the decision for me by making a string through model  That thing is seriously killer!


----------



## Bdtunn

What will be the new excuse for not buying one now that they have stainless frets haha

that red ec is a beauty


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

Fuck I wanted to get a Les Paul studio or like an Epiphone LP custom to mod and keep in B standard but ESP got me trippin with those new EC1000s.


----------



## Zhysick

Oh oh...


----------



## Bodes

That red arrow 1000!


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands




----------



## Trashgreen




----------



## slan

That H-1001 would be perfect with a cockstock. What a shame.


----------



## Musiscience

ESP throwing SS frets on almost all new LTD announced like they're Oprah. Very interested in getting one now.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

slan said:


> That H-1001 would be perfect with a cockstock. What a shame.


 A massive shame. One of the coolest 3x3 headstocks and they're barely touching it.


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

My question is tho what's up with all the rosewood? I would actually go for an EC1000 or maybe the black metal F if they didn't have those funky brownish boards.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

TheBolivianSniper said:


> My question is tho what's up with all the rosewood? I would actually go for an EC1000 or maybe the black metal F if they didn't have those funky brownish boards.



Just dye them black. 

It's not like ebony at this price point would be black either.

Since CITES worked out the whole rosewood thing it's been back on everything.


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

MaxOfMetal said:


> Just dye them black.
> 
> It's not like ebony at this price point would be black either.
> 
> Since CITES worked out the whole rosewood thing it's been back on everything.



I could but I'm a dumbass and would probably fuck up more of a great guitar than it's worth. Seriously debating waiting a year for an EII though.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

TheBolivianSniper said:


> I could but I'm a dumbass and would probably fuck up more of a great guitar than it's worth. Seriously debating waiting a year for an EII though.


dyeing a fretboard is a joke. literally all you do is take off the strings, tape off the edge of the fretboard/nut and smear the dye or ink into the wood.


----------



## Shawn

Trashgreen said:


>


I really like the bottom blue one...I just wish they put the reverse pointed headstocks on those.


----------



## feraledge

It's hilarious to me to think people are still giving unwarranted advice on the E-II name when they're years behind on production AND even LTD Elites are selling used for like $1200 plus now. 
If you don't like the name, tough, ESP can afford not to care. 
That Floyded EC Black Metal is calling my name. I'm still hoping that they release a Black Metal MH before touring becomes an option again, but for now my Black Metal M is what I'll be taking.


----------



## Shoeless_jose

TheBolivianSniper said:


> Fuck I wanted to get a Les Paul studio or like an Epiphone LP custom to mod and keep in B standard but ESP got me trippin with those new EC1000s.



Agreed I always loved the vintage black EC but the black cherry with the gold hardware has sort of Norlin era Les Paul Custom vibes. i could easily see it being my next guitar purchase


----------



## gnoll

I like the look of rosewood. Especially on black or white guitars. It just seems to complement them nicely, and adds a bit of "wood feeling" to the instrument. A completely black ebony fretboard kinda looks like it could be plastic or something at a distance. I like that only for making cool inlays pop a bit more. Otherwise I prefer rosewood or striped ebony or something like that.


----------



## possumkiller

KnightBrolaire said:


> dyeing a fretboard is a joke. literally all you do is take off the strings, tape off the edge of the fretboard/nut and smear the dye or ink into the wood.


Don't even bother taping it off. Just smear it on the fretboard and rub it off the neck paint. People try to make it into some big ordeal and it really is the simplest thing to do.


----------



## Loomer

Zhysick said:


> Oh oh...



Absolutely LOSING MY SHIT over these two


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

possumkiller said:


> Don't even bother taping it off.



Unless you're like me and have jittery fingers and accidentally dye the edge of the fretboard, or worse, the white binding.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Unless you're like me and have jittery fingers and accidentally dye the edge of the fretboard, or worse, the white binding.



Just brush a bead of Elmer's white glue down the sides. Once dry, dye away, and then peel off the glue in one long strip.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

No 8's


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

MaxOfMetal said:


> Just brush a bead of Elmer's white glue down the sides. Once dry, dye away, and then peel off the glue in one long strip.


----------



## Lada The Great

Good stuff as usual! Really like the new teles and 1-hum snapper.


r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> No 8's


This is only the first preview of new so there is still lots of stuff to be unveiled. Atleast, there seems to be new 9-string coming (Joshua Travis Sig maybe?) and considering he plays both 8- and 9-strings there might also be new 8 coming.
Tbh, im not expecting lots of new 8-strings to be released, the 8-string craze has seemed to die down a bit. Would be cool tho, I personally really enjoy playing my ESP 8.


----------



## Spicypickles

I just fucking love all these, even the xtones. I’ll take one of each, plz. 

for real though, the snapper, arrow, and teles got me rock hard.


----------



## Kaura

Anyone know where (higher end) LTD´s are made these days?


----------



## Dudley

Kaura said:


> Anyone know where (higher end) LTD´s are made these days?



Indonesia and Korea. I’ve seen a few of the same model in the same store with different production locations. No way to tell which one it will be without picking it up and looking on a case by case basis (or asking the store to check for you due to that darned COVID...)


----------



## NeglectedField

Promising stuff. Some sexy EC's and that SN with the single pickup is an interesting one.


----------



## RockOnVagabond

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> No 8's


FINGERS CROSSED FOR JAVIERS 8 STRING SNAPPER FINGERS CROSSED FOR JAVIERS 8 STRNG SNAPPER!!!! lol


----------



## JD27

That SN is just sick, I need it.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

RockOnVagabond said:


> FINGERS CROSSED FOR JAVIERS 8 STRING SNAPPER FINGERS CROSSED FOR JAVIERS 8 STRNG SNAPPER!!!! lol


Just being a realist. Probably won’t happen but I wish


----------



## nsimonsen

Hyped to see them using stainless frets on a heap of these.

That Koa tele is hooooot.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Given they didn't show any sig models in this batch (there's a rumored Josh Travis and Josh Middleton sig coming), I'm imagining if they also have any ERGs to show off besides the one they did, it's coming in the next batch.


----------



## Millul

That black reverse headstock Snapper went straight to the top of my list!


----------



## Mathemagician

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Given they didn't show any sig models in this batch (there's a rumored Josh Travis and Josh Middleton sig coming), I'm imagining if they also have any ERGs to show off besides the one they did, it's coming in the next batch.



Please have specs I don’t like. Please have specs I don’t like.


----------



## stinkoman

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Given they didn't show any sig models in this batch (there's a rumored Josh Travis and Josh Middleton sig coming), I'm imagining if they also have any ERGs to show off besides the one they did, it's coming in the next batch.


I’m terrible with names, but wasn’t one of those guys the one that was playing the 9 string LTD?


----------



## Masoo2

stinkoman said:


> I’m terrible with names, but wasn’t one of those guys the one that was playing the 9 string LTD?


Yeah, Josh Travis was the one with the 9 string. ex-Glass Cloud and The Tony Danza Tapdance Extravaganza, current Emmure.

I'm expecting it to be a 30 inch, I recall some previously calling for a 28 inch but the distance between the pickups looks too far for 28 inches and given that ESP has already released a few 28 inch 9 strings (Babymetal, Exhibition releases, and I believe the Stephen Carpenter) I think this will be the first foray into the 30 inch range.


----------



## Mprinsje

Trashgreen said:


>



I know it's not the most popular shape but that black metal Forest does all kind of things for me.


----------



## possumkiller

Mprinsje said:


> I know it's not the most popular shape but that black metal Forest does all kind of things for me.


I would have thought a black metal F would've been the first guitar in the black metal series.


----------



## eaeolian

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> SSO: $6000 for the Adam Jones sig is too much
> ESP: Hold my Sake


----------



## eaeolian

MaxOfMetal said:


> Just brush a bead of Elmer's white glue down the sides. Once dry, dye away, and then peel off the glue in one long strip.



That is...actually a great idea.


----------



## I play music

Masoo2 said:


> Yeah, Josh Travis was the one with the 9 string. ex-Glass Cloud and The Tony Danza Tapdance Extravaganza, current Emmure.
> 
> I'm expecting it to be a 30 inch, I recall some previously calling for a 28 inch but the distance between the pickups looks too far for 28 inches and given that ESP has already released a few 28 inch 9 strings (Babymetal, Exhibition releases, and I believe the Stephen Carpenter) I think this will be the first foray into the 30 inch range.


I think he plays 30" 9 and 28" 8. Sadly what I'd like is a 30" 8. But maybe they surprise me and make that.


----------



## Dumple Stilzkin

Mprinsje said:


> I know it's not the most popular shape but that black metal Forest does all kind of things for me.


I wouldn’t ever buy one, but they are cool. They look like the perfect guitar to play black metal with.


----------



## DeathbyDesign

Anyone catch the Architects stream they released this past weekend? I was watching it and Josh is playing that new guitar towards the end of the first set and part of the acoustic set. It is an LTD and looks to be a reversed head stock version of the MHNT series potentially. The back of the neck looks to be unfinished from some of the shots of it. Wonder if it will be a sig for him or just a new LTD model for 2021.


----------



## feraledge

DeathbyDesign said:


> Anyone catch the Architects stream they released this past weekend? I was watching it and Josh is playing that new guitar towards the end of the first set and part of the acoustic set. It is an LTD and looks to be a reversed head stock version of the MHNT series potentially. The back of the neck looks to be unfinished from some of the shots of it. Wonder if it will be a sig for him or just a new LTD model for 2021.


Just watched the trailer on IG and it looks two of the clear shots are with that new sig M and then one is a standard Horizon (below). Not sure how many he plays in the stream, but the other two seems like the new sig he was playing in that recent music video.


----------



## DeathbyDesign

feraledge said:


> Just watched the trailer on IG and it looks two of the clear shots are with that new sig M and then one is a standard Horizon (below). Not sure how many he plays in the stream, but the other two seems like the new sig he was playing in that recent music video.
> View attachment 87379


Here is a shot I snagged from the stream. Not the best but shows some details. I think he swapped guitars 3-4 times and this guitar was used for the last few songs from the main set and he also used it for ambient noise on the acoustic version of Momento Mori.


----------



## Jake

DeathbyDesign said:


> Here is a shot I snagged from the stream. Not the best but shows some details. I think he swapped guitars 3-4 times and this guitar was used for the last few songs from the main set and he also used it for ambient noise on the acoustic version of Momento Mori.


I noticed this a few times during the set as well. That one that looks to be his sig is looking nice!


----------



## epsylon

Rumor of the Andromeda finish's death have been greatly exagerated. Damn I dig a lot of these. The black arrow and the Andromeda EC in particular...


----------



## Necris

Good god all of those single humbucker models look great.


----------



## gunch

ESP said:


> Black Metal Forest


----------



## Zhysick

Single bridge humbucker is the way to go. 2021 is the year to see the light... oh, well, all of them are black so...


----------



## feraledge

Zhysick said:


> Single bridge humbucker is the way to go. 2021 is the year to see the light... oh, well, all of them are black so...


I wish they would do a modern metal series that is entirely the same guitars and all, but sea foam finish and baked maple boards.


----------



## Zhysick

feraledge said:


> I wish they would do a modern metal series that is entirely the same guitars and all, but sea foam finish and baked maple boards.



Well, if they do that I would become a loyal LTD player forever. I love my EX-100 but today I play this and that BUT if they do an M-1 in sea foam green with a full baked maple neck... oh shit.... specially because if they do it I will buy the M1 first, then the Viper, then the Arrow, then the Snapper... fuck.


----------



## Seabeast2000

Zhysick said:


> Well, if they do that I would become a loyal LTD player forever. I love my EX-100 but today I play this and that BUT if they do an M-1 in sea foam green with a full baked maple neck... oh shit.... specially because if they do it I will buy the M1 first, then the Viper, then the Arrow, then the Snapper... fuck.



Side question, is shipping a challenge for you out there on the archipelago?


----------



## possumkiller

Roasted maple neck through body?


----------



## feraledge

possumkiller said:


> Roasted maple neck through body?


Either roasted maple neck through body or bolt on.
And toss in a Snapper with a parchment pickguard.


----------



## possumkiller

Snapper with roasted maple neck, pastel colors, parchment pickguard, non-locking trem, hss or hsh, locking tuners? Just buy one of those Ibanez Arizona models.


----------



## Seabeast2000

This sounds like a jackson..... I mean a charvel dk25 2pt.


----------



## feraledge

Seabeast2000 said:


> This sounds like a jackson..... I mean a charvel dk25 2pt.


If it was a custom it'd be a Jackson DK23 2pt.


----------



## Zhysick

Seabeast2000 said:


> Side question, is shipping a challenge for you out there on the archipelago?



Where are you from? And is not a challenge as long as you order from outside Spain... ha, hahaha, hahahahah, haha, haha... yeah, not funny at all. It's cheaper and faster and only good things buying from Germany, England or whatever but as soon as you try to buy something from mainland Spain you are fucked with customs, delays or, what's most common at all, "the sentence": we don't ship to the Canary Islands. That's when you point out that they say in the webpage that they are selling to WHOLE SPAIN but then that doesn't include Canary Islands, Ceuta or Melilla, so, looks like sometimes Spain is just Baleares and mainland...

Sorry for the rant, but you asked!


----------



## Zhysick

feraledge said:


> If it was a custom it'd be a Jackson DK23 2pt.



 That's still funny to everyone BUT for the guy that ordered that guitar...


----------



## Mathemagician

Holding off on a black metal 7b, hoping someone’s sig/ one of the regular models is basically that but with a neck pickup. Otherwise it’s making a really good case to be mine.


----------



## Seabeast2000

Zhysick said:


> Where are you from? And is not a challenge as long as you order from outside Spain... ha, hahaha, hahahahah, haha, haha... yeah, not funny at all. It's cheaper and faster and only good things buying from Germany, England or whatever but as soon as you try to buy something from mainland Spain you are fucked with customs, delays or, what's most common at all, "the sentence": we don't ship to the Canary Islands. That's when you point out that they say in the webpage that they are selling to WHOLE SPAIN but then that doesn't include Canary Islands, Ceuta or Melilla, so, looks like sometimes Spain is just Baleares and mainland...
> 
> Sorry for the rant, but you asked!



Hey, interesting to know. Thanks. 
I'm in the U.S.


----------



## Zhysick

Seabeast2000 said:


> I'm in the U.S.



Hmm... interesting. Normally people from outside Spain don't know where the canary islands are and I have just "Tenerife" in my profile so, unless you looked for it because you didn't know what place was that, it's interesting that you know this place... cool anyway


----------



## Forkface

Zhysick said:


> Hmm... interesting. Normally people from outside Spain don't know where the canary islands are and I have just "Tenerife" in my profile so, unless you looked for it because you didn't know what place was that, it's interesting that you know this place... cool anyway


being completely honest, i didnt know where Tenerife was (i knew it was a place and it existed though), until Sheeran release the Tenerife Sea song. Guess it prompted me to google it at some point.
i figure a lot of people anded up on the same boat and the song brought tenerife to a more common knowledge ground.

Or, people are actually educated and i am a geographical imbecile. either/or.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Forkface said:


> being completely honest, i didnt know where Tenerife was (i knew it was a place and it existed though), until Sheeran release the Tenerife Sea song. Guess it prompted me to google it at some point.
> i figure a lot of people anded up on the same boat and the song brought tenerife to a more common knowledge ground.
> 
> Or, people are actually educated and i am a geographical imbecile. either/or.



Continuing the off topic, just about anyone in emergency or abatement services knows about Tenerife due to the terrible avaiation disaster there in the 70's. 

It's a model in poor communication, making assumptions, and command structure. 

When I became a volunteer firefighter about 25 years ago that was one of the case studies they really pushed. Same when I moved on to Clean Harbours, and back a month ago when recertification for HazMat technician they still went into it. 

Sorry for the additional OT, just something that doesn't come up.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands




----------



## Bodes

I don't need a new guitar, but if they release the double arrow with the same specs, including colour as the arrow 1000.... *drools*

Maybe the Mille Petrozza sig doesn't sell that well to make it a non-sig version. Cause we all know, Mille is all about black, black and nothing but black, so a red Mille is off the cards.


----------



## Zhysick

Forkface said:


> being completely honest, i didnt know where Tenerife was (i knew it was a place and it existed though), until Sheeran release the Tenerife Sea song. Guess it prompted me to google it at some point.
> i figure a lot of people anded up on the same boat and the song brought tenerife to a more common knowledge ground.
> 
> Or, people are actually educated and i am a geographical imbecile. either/or.




Oh... there's a Sheeran song called Tenerife Sea... OK, now I understand! (I googled it a bit and I saw it's from 2014 and I just got to know it today... I guess the song is more famous outside Tenerife )

No, you are not a geographical imbecile for not knowing where Tenerife is because it's a fucking tiny island in the middle of the atlantic ocean like dozens more so... "just one more". There are lots of them but I guess I "should" thank the little giinger to "put us on the map"... well, ok


----------



## Zhysick

MaxOfMetal said:


> Continuing the off topic, just about anyone in emergency or abatement services knows about Tenerife due to the terrible avaiation disaster there in the 70's.
> 
> It's a model in poor communication, making assumptions, and command structure.
> 
> When I became a volunteer firefighter about 25 years ago that was one of the case studies they really pushed. Same when I moved on to Clean Harbours, and back a month ago when recertification for HazMat technician they still went into it.
> 
> Sorry for the additional OT, just something that doesn't come up.




Oh yes, that's the worst aviation disaster ever, but "normal" people are not into that type of things... You could be surprised how many people that live here and were born here, and rised, and everything here don't know a thing about it. I live pretty close to that airport and the father of my ex was a firefighter and went there when happened... I have heard really hard things about it. But in the 70s the comms weren't as good as are today and believe me, the fog there is fucking thick like it's hard to walk in a straight line...

It makes me feel good to know that this disaster is being studied anywhere because here in this place the politicians try to keep it in the shadows


----------



## Millul

To be fair, I think most people in Europe know where Tenerife is  and I know for a fact you guys get swamped with Italians every year


----------



## Kaura

Our summer cottage neighbor owns a house in Tenerife and my dad used to fly there all the time when he was still a pilot. Gotta read about that accident. Never heard of it.

Might as well keep the off-topic going while we're waiting for the second batch...


----------



## Lada The Great

Here is leaked pic of the 9-string.


----------



## Mathemagician

Lada The Great said:


> Here is leaked pic of the 9-string.
> View attachment 87490



Could use a 10th string. Needs SS frets. Would like to see two independent trems, 5 strings each. More black. Less black. Not a prestige. Did I bingo?


----------



## Lada The Great

Mathemagician said:


> Could use a 10th string. Needs SS frets. Would like to see two independent trems, 5 strings each. More black. Less black. Not a prestige. Did I bingo?


You forgot to complain about EMGs


----------



## gunch

Everyone wants a Javier snapper and here I am like, damn the 2019 JR200 do be looking pretty nice for 500 bucks tho


----------



## cardinal

Rats. I'd guess that 9 is a 30" scale.


----------



## Kaura

cardinal said:


> Rats. I'd guess that 9 is a 30" scale.



Should make it 24" just for the lulz.


----------



## Zhysick

Millul said:


> To be fair, I think most people in Europe know where Tenerife is  and I know for a fact you guys get swamped with Italians every year





Kaura said:


> Our summer cottage neighbor owns a house in Tenerife and my dad used to fly there all the time when he was still a pilot. Gotta read about that accident. Never heard of it.
> 
> Might as well keep the off-topic going while we're waiting for the second batch...



Italians, scandinavians and british/irish don't count for this: yes, we are flooded every year! Specially italians hahahahaha Actually most people in Europe know about the Canary Islands BUT a big part of them don't know the name of the islands and for them "all are called Gran Canaria" hahahahaah it's quite funny!

One conversation I had once in Ireland:

- Oh, you are from the Canaries? I was there once
- Yes, I'm from Tenerife, to which one did you go?
- To the Canaries
- Yeah, I know, but there are 7 islands, which one
- I don't know... there was a lot of sand and amazing beaches
- Fuerteventura?
- I think that was the name of the town, yes
- No, that's the name of the whole island...



I'm off with the off-topic... I think I've gone too far hahaha but I am bored right now, waiting for the pizza guy...


----------



## epsylon

Haven't been to Tenerife but I've visited three of the Canaries (Lanzarote, Fuerteventura and Gran Canaria), they're possibly one of my fave place on earth, despite the tourism.

Anyways, do we know when these new models get into the hands of distributors? I might actually hold off on a bigger purchase to keep some money for one of these beauties.


----------



## JD27

Mathemagician said:


> Could use a 10th string. Needs SS frets. Would like to see two independent trems, 5 strings each. More black. Less black. Not a prestige. Did I bingo?



Don’t forget to bitch about the headstock not saying ESP.


----------



## Seabeast2000

JD27 said:


> Don’t forget to bitch about the headstock not saying ESP.


Evertrem.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Looks like it's going to be a 1000 series too, not a sig model.


----------



## Zhysick

JD27 said:


> Don’t forget to bitch about the headstock not saying ESP.



Bad it's not a cockstock.

Actual real complaint.

Not going to buy it but cockstock or die


----------



## Spicypickles

That headstock sucks all the D’s.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Zhysick said:


> Bad it's not a cockstock.
> 
> Actual real complaint.
> 
> Not going to buy it but cockstock or die





Spicypickles said:


> That headstock sucks all the D’s.



If there's one legit complaint that ESP deserves, it's the lack of cockstock on the lower end models. Seriously, the poor man's Schecter headstock suuuucks. 

And even then Schecter knows how to make a double-sided headstock look not-assy on an ERG.


----------



## jephjacques

Wish they'd gone with the reverse cockstock like Stef's 9 string.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

ESP/LTD is just so late to the party when it comes to stuff with 8 or more strings. Do folks even play 9s much anymore? I know Ibanez discontinued both of theirs due to abysmal sales.


----------



## jephjacques

I can barely find any 8 strings for sale anymore, I think that market has pretty much dried up outside of people ordering straight from builders a la kiesel or abasi.


----------



## Spicypickles

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> If there's one legit complaint that ESP deserves, it's the lack of cockstock on the lower end models. Seriously, the poor man's Schecter headstock suuuucks.
> 
> And even then Schecter knows how to make a double-sided headstock look not-assy on an ERG.


I’m a serious cockstock fan, but on the 9 above, at least reverse the shitty one it has. It just looks all around terrible.


----------



## possumkiller

Lada The Great said:


> Here is leaked pic of the 9-string.
> View attachment 87490


What that really needs is a ToM.


----------



## Joe B

Max Cavalera thanked Tony (ESP artist relation) and Matt (ESP CEO) last week for sending him this brandnew guitar. I think it's his new Reaper signature 200 series for 2021 in military green satin. Max: "Army edition. Vietnam 69".


----------



## Zhysick

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> If there's one legit complaint that ESP deserves, it's the lack of cockstock on the lower end models. Seriously, the poor man's Schecter headstock suuuucks.
> 
> And even then Schecter knows how to make a double-sided headstock look not-assy on an ERG.



Holy shit! That board looks MASSIVE!!!!!!! Other 9 string guitars doesn't look as massive as this one, don't know why but...

Yes, that headstock looks better BUT cockstock always wins!


----------



## RobDobble6S7

I will never understand the attraction to the "cockstock". I think it looks flaccid.


----------



## Zhysick

RobDobble6S7 said:


> I will never understand the attraction to the "cockstock". I think it looks flaccid.



Then just demand the reversed cockstock so the tip is pointing upwards


----------



## Vyn

RobDobble6S7 said:


> I will never understand the attraction to the "cockstock". I think it looks flaccid.



I never understood the cockstock attraction. Already have a cock and quite happy with it, don't need another.


----------



## Mathemagician

We need more leaks.


----------



## MrWulf

Cockstock is more of a meme in here, tbh. It looked stupid. Gives me their in line or reverse in line any day.


----------



## narad

The best ESP headstock is the Jackson headstock.


----------



## Zhysick

narad said:


> The best ESP headstock is the Jackson headstock.



Cockstock is only for H series. Any other should have the "jackson" headstock but since it's impossible then the inline is good enough I guess...

I DEMAND ALL H SERIES HAVE A COCKSTOCK

AND ALL M SERIES A REVERSED INLINE POINTY HEADSTOCK

That's all. Have a nice day. Cheers!


----------



## Musiscience

Mathemagician said:


> Would like to see two independent trems, 5 strings each.



9 strings are enough, but I agree it needs 3 trems with 3 strings each. And microtonal TT frets. And a 8 coil humbucker like the Spinal Tap guitar. 

*says the guy who only really play and own 6s.


----------



## Mathemagician

Musiscience said:


> 9 strings are enough, but I agree it needs 3 trems with 3 strings each. And microtonal TT frets. And a 8 coil humbucker like the Spinal Tap guitar.
> 
> *says the guy who only really play and own 6s.



Yes! One of the trems must also somehow be an evertune-trem. Which doesn’t exist yet. But which one it is is selected at random, and you don’t find out until you get it. Shrodingers trem.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Mathemagician said:


> Would like to see two independent trems, 5 strings each.



Conklin had a similar idea.


----------



## mbardu

MaxOfMetal said:


> Conklin had a similar idea.
> 
> View attachment 87542



No squiggly frets, literally unplayable.


----------



## Spicypickles

That midi output is the most offensive part of that Conklin.


----------



## olejason

Conklin has built so much wild shit over the years. You don't really hear much from them nowadays.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

olejason said:


> Conklin has built so much wild shit over the years. You don't really hear much from them nowadays.



Their clients are older and mostly off the internet, or at least social media. Newer builds pop up on eBay and Reverb, and the galleries are updated irregularly. 

They're just not the only shop in town anymore, and definitely not the cheapest, so we don't see them much here. 

Bill and team don't really market themselves much these days. They don't do artist endorsements either.


----------



## Mathemagician

MaxOfMetal said:


> Conklin had a similar idea.
> 
> View attachment 87542



The sheer tomfoolery in this photo is outlandish. Who let them do this? Also I love it.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Mathemagician said:


> The sheer tomfoolery in this photo is outlandish. Who let them do this? Also I love it.



If the (likely five figure) check clears the idea is sound enough.


----------



## Zhysick

MaxOfMetal said:


> If the (likely five figure) check clears the idea is sound enough.



I always thought "conklin" was the english onomatopoeia for a coin in a slot machine


----------



## possumkiller

Spicypickles said:


> That midi output is the most offensive part of that Conklin.


Look, if it wasn't a midi output, it would be a locking jack. Either way, that big square bit sticking out of the bottom edge will be on a Conklin.


----------



## possumkiller

narad said:


> The best ESP headstock is the Jackson headstock.


Concord


----------



## gnoll

The thing about the Canaries I find confusing is the La Palma/Las Palmas thing. So one is an island, but the other one is a city? Why are their names so similar?? AND, the city Las Palmas is not even on La Palma, it's on another island completely!!

What the hell?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

gnoll said:


> The thing about the Canaries I find confusing is the La Palma/Las Palmas thing. So one is an island, but the other one is a city? Why are their names so similar?? AND, the city Las Palmas is not even on La Palma, it's on another island completely!!
> 
> What the hell?



Man, don't move to the US. We have a Kansas City that's in the state of Missouri, instead of the state of Kansas, which also has its own Kansas City. And don't let me begin with Springfield.


----------



## I play music

MaxOfMetal said:


> Man, don't move to the US. We have a Kansas City that's in the state of Missouri, instead of the state of Kansas, which also has its own Kansas City. And don't let me begin with Springfield.


Washington and Washington D.C.


----------



## HarveyForte

MaxOfMetal said:


> Man, don't move to the US. We have a Kansas City that's in the state of Missouri, instead of the state of Kansas, which also has its own Kansas City. And don't let me begin with Springfield.


 We don’t talk about KCK. They’re.....feral. And not to be trusted.


----------



## feraledge

MaxOfMetal said:


> Man, don't move to the US. We have a Kansas City that's in the state of Missouri, instead of the state of Kansas, which also has its own Kansas City. And don't let me begin with Springfield.


You do know those are both the same city, right?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

feraledge said:


> You do know those are both the same city, right?



Yeah, I know it's a weird "line down the center" situation.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

If you really want to anger KC people, just bring up which side has better bbq


----------



## HarveyForte

KnightBrolaire said:


> If you really want to anger KC people, just bring up which side has better bbq


 

Either way it’s way better than Texas BBQ.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

HarveyForte said:


> Either way it’s way better than Texas BBQ.


THEMS FIGHTIN WORDS BOY
take yo sugary ketchup sauces on out of here lol


----------



## gunshow86de

HarveyForte said:


> Either way it’s way better than Texas BBQ.











KnightBrolaire said:


> take yo sugary ketchup sauces on out of here lol



I lived on the Missouri side of KC for about a year, ate their BBQ a handful of times and almost caught the diabeetus.


----------



## HarveyForte

gunshow86de said:


> I lived on the Missouri side of KC for about a year, ate their BBQ a handful of times and almost caught the diabeetus.



I’ll agree that there are several that are way too much, but when you first get the hospitality and flavor of Gates, it’s divine.


----------



## RobDobble6S7

HarveyForte said:


> Either way it’s way better than Texas BBQ.


I have no pride in my country but dammit if Texas barbecue ain't the best


----------



## Zhysick

gnoll said:


> The thing about the Canaries I find confusing is the La Palma/Las Palmas thing. So one is an island, but the other one is a city? Why are their names so similar?? AND, the city Las Palmas is not even on La Palma, it's on another island completely!!
> 
> What the hell?



 There's no confusion if you use the full name of the city. The island is 'La Palma' and the full name of the city is 'Las Palmas de Gran Canaria' which obvioulsy refers to the island it's in. Not going to talk about 'Santa Cruz de Tenerife' and 'Santa Cruz de La Palma' (both of which we normally call just 'Santa Cruz' and will mean one or the other depending on the situation or context) and even worse why we call the whole island of Gran Canaria just 'Las Palmas'... that's a mistery I have not yet unfold...


----------



## Decimater1

HarveyForte said:


> I’ll agree that there are several that are way too much, but when you first get the hospitality and flavor of Gates, it’s divine.



Correct. Not ALL of Kc BBQ is sugar insulin inducing diabetic coma sauce. Many of us have vinegar running thought our meat and veins.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Decimater1 said:


> Many of us have vinegar running thought our meat



Might want to see a doctor about that.


----------



## Forkface

HarveyForte said:


> Either way it’s way better than Texas BBQ.


E X C U S E M E ?


----------



## feilong29

If it ain't vinegar-based, get out of ma face!!


----------



## Spicypickles

You shouldn’t have to flavor it, otherwise you can’t BBQ. 
Salt, pepper, low heat and smoke. That’s it.


----------



## cardinal

Maybe I missed something, but have we moved from sandblasted ash finished to barbecued ash finishes for 2021?


----------



## KnightBrolaire

cardinal said:


> Maybe I missed something, but have we moved from sandblasted ash finished to barbecued ash finishes for 2021?


I shall call it Shou Sugi Barbeque. Comes slathered in your choice of hickory or mesquite scent


----------



## RobDobble6S7

New 2021 ESP T-7 BBQ: comes loaded with beefy pickups, roasted maple neck and fretboard, and charcoal top.


----------



## Musiscience

cardinal said:


> Maybe I missed something, but have we moved from sandblasted ash finished to barbecued ash finishes for 2021?



Mayones already does that, they call it TEW ash.


----------



## feraledge

Spicypickles said:


> You shouldn’t have to flavor it, otherwise you can’t BBQ.
> Salt, pepper, low heat and smoke. That’s it.


This is the BBQ equivalent of being a flat earther.


----------



## cardinal

Musiscience said:


> Mayones already does that, they call it TEW ash.



But what does it taste like?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

feraledge said:


> This is the BBQ equivalent of being a flat earther.


----------



## Musiscience

cardinal said:


> But what does it taste like?



Empty wallet


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Okay let me trust throw my hat in the ring. Carolina mustard based BBQ or die peasants. 

Also will accept Vinegar but NEVER will I accept ketchup based. I am not an animal.


----------



## Mathemagician

cardinal said:


> Maybe I missed something, but have we moved from sandblasted ash finished to barbecued ash finishes for 2021?



See the PRS brisket burst on the Holcomb. They were just streets ahead.


----------



## Seabeast2000

Waiting on Jerked Maple processes to mature and hit market.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Where is my Wagyu Marble finish


----------



## mbardu

Unfinished roasted maple unironically smells delicious tho, you can @ me


----------



## RobDobble6S7

I heard that the TEW shit actually changes your tone a little bit. I wonder if any major brands will begin to "enhance" their woods as well...


----------



## mbardu

RobDobble6S7 said:


> I heard that the TEW shit actually changes your tone a little bit. I wonder if any major brands will begin to "enhance" their woods as well...



Kiesel offers roasted ash bodies as well.
Small builder like Vandermeij also have things like roasted black limba construction.

Haven't seen or tried either, but would certainly be interested!


----------



## gunshow86de

Fender was using roasted pine on their Custom Shop stuff, it finally trickled down to some of the American Professional II stuff they just released.


----------



## gunshow86de

Can they just make a sig for Brian already? I really want his V.


----------



## Zhysick

feraledge said:


> This is the BBQ equivalent of being a flat earther.



If you need to use sauces, vinegar, ketchup or shit like that for a piece of meat then it was a shitty piece of meat to start with. If the meat is good quality you just need a bit of salt so all the flavour comes from the meat not from the shit you put on top. If I want to taste ketchup, I just eat ketchup... Is like having a nice piece of pale moon ebony for a freatboard and dye it black. Don't put shit on something that's good by itself.  I was a bit blunt with this, yes, but I take meat very seriously (even thou I don't eat meat anymore, it's a cultural thing for me)



gunshow86de said:


> Can they just make a sig for Brian already? I really want his V.




OK. Cockstock on a V is a thing now so I have to update my demand:

ALL HORIZON STYLED GUITARS AND ROUNDED HORNS V STYLED GUITARS MUST HAVE COCKSTOCK.

End of statement.

Cheers!


----------



## Mathemagician

gunshow86de said:


> Can they just make a sig for Brian already? I really want his V.




He also has a flat-top old school EC with a floyd and a flamed maple top. Looks AMAZING.



Zhysick said:


> If you need to use sauces, vinegar, ketchup or shit like that for a piece of meat then it was a shitty piece of meat to start with. If the meat is good quality you just need a bit of salt so all the flavour comes from the meat not from the shit you put on top. If I want to taste ketchup, I just eat ketchup... Is like having a nice piece of pale moon ebony for a freatboard and dye it black. Don't put shit on something that's good by itself.  I was a bit blunt with this, yes, but I take meat very seriously (even thou I don't eat meat anymore, it's a cultural thing for me)
> 
> 
> 
> OK. Cockstock on a V is a thing now so I have to update my demand:
> 
> ALL HORIZON STYLED GUITARS AND ROUNDED HORNS V STYLED GUITARS MUST HAVE COCKSTOCK.
> 
> End of statement.
> 
> Cheers!



Reverse cockstock. It just looks better. I feel like alone though.


----------



## Seabeast2000

Mathemagician said:


> Reverse cockstock. It just looks better. I feel like alone though.



"Do you suffer from Reverse Cockstock" 

I for damn sure did see commercials for this issue.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Zhysick said:


> OK. Cockstock on a V is a thing now so I have to update my demand:
> 
> ALL HORIZON STYLED GUITARS AND ROUNDED HORNS V STYLED GUITARS MUST HAVE COCKSTOCK.
> 
> End of statement.
> 
> Cheers!



Cockstock V has been a thing for awhile now.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

Mathemagician said:


> See the PRS brisket burst on the Holcomb. They were just streets ahead.



I thoroughly appreciated the Community reference.


----------



## StevenC

TheInvisibleHand said:


> I thoroughly appreciated the Community reference.


StevenC likes this post


----------



## gunch

They still keep 6505 MH's that they just master into everything?


----------



## feraledge

Zhysick said:


> If you need to use sauces, vinegar, ketchup or shit like that for a piece of meat then it was a shitty piece of meat to start with. If the meat is good quality you just need a bit of salt so all the flavour comes from the meat not from the shit you put on top. If I want to taste ketchup, I just eat ketchup... Is like having a nice piece of pale moon ebony for a freatboard and dye it black. Don't put shit on something that's good by itself.  I was a bit blunt with this, yes, but I take meat very seriously (even thou I don't eat meat anymore, it's a cultural thing for me)
> 
> 
> 
> OK. Cockstock on a V is a thing now so I have to update my demand:
> 
> ALL HORIZON STYLED GUITARS AND ROUNDED HORNS V STYLED GUITARS MUST HAVE COCKSTOCK.
> 
> End of statement.
> 
> Cheers!


I've spent the last ten years building pasture based meat programs, working with farmers and co-ops, and half the butchers in the butcher shop revival. What you're saying is true of steaks and burgers, which I grill with just salt and pepper, but dry rubs and BBQ are bread and butter. Even the leaves in pit roast barbacoa add flavor. 
I can tell most breeds, pasturing methods and herd management by looking at a rib eye, but if you're giving me brisket with just salt and pepper, I will definitely add some sauce to it without remorse.

In the BBQ ring, I grew up in the Midwest and will say this: I love a sweet KC style and a tangy vinegar, but a mediocre sweet BBQ is functional and a misstep with vinegar BBQ is a flavor nuke.


I do agree on the cockstocks and rounded Vs. The BDM track was solid, but I give the crackle Kelly and custom V six bags of popcorn and a little novelty keychain knife. For the murder.


----------



## feraledge

This thread thoroughly combines my love of ESPs and BBQ. Both things I have snobby high shelf interest in, but I'd slay an LTD just the same as a mediocre BBQ sauced pork slider.


----------



## StevenC

Beyond Community, all I have to offer this thread is that I had began barbecue ribs today and they were pretty good.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

StevenC said:


> Beyond Community, all I have to offer this thread is that I had began barbecue ribs today and they were pretty good.


>vegan
>ribs
get out.


----------



## dirtool

Mathemagician said:


> He also has a flat-top old school EC with a floyd and a flamed maple top. Looks AMAZING.
> 
> 
> 
> Reverse cockstock. It just looks better. I feel like alone though.


----------



## gunshow86de

dirtool said:


>


----------



## soul_lip_mike

gunshow86de said:


> Can they just make a sig for Brian already? I really want his V.




Does anyone else find it comical when a band singer like this gets all fat and dad body'ish? Whether it's chuck billy, this guy, vince neil, axl rose. Just makes it seem like a parody of their earlier selves. /soapbox


----------



## MaxOfMetal

soul_lip_mike said:


> Does anyone else find it comical when a band singer like this gets all fat and dad body'ish? Whether it's chuck billy, this guy, vince neil, axl rose. Just makes it seem like a parody of their earlier selves. /soapbox



He's not my type either.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

soul_lip_mike said:


> Does anyone else find it comical when a band singer like this gets all fat and dad body'ish? Whether it's chuck billy, this guy, vince neil, axl rose. Just makes it seem like a parody of their earlier selves. /soapbox




I mostly noticed the 6505 mh heads. Is that a normal thing for them to use?


----------



## Decimater1

feraledge said:


> This is the BBQ equivalent of being a flat earther.



Only slightly acceptable for beef ribs from Texas.


----------



## Seabeast2000

soul_lip_mike said:


> Does anyone else find it comical when a band singer like this gets all fat and dad body'ish? Whether it's chuck billy, this guy, vince neil, axl rose. Just makes it seem like a parody of their earlier selves. /soapbox


Redacted post. Yes I'd want to buck the chunky old guy trope for a tour.


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

soul_lip_mike said:


> Does anyone else find it comical when a band singer like this gets all fat and dad body'ish? Whether it's chuck billy, this guy, vince neil, axl rose. Just makes it seem like a parody of their earlier selves. /soapbox



Last I saw Hetfield was looking good again. The sauce is not good for him and what I've seen of the band playing they've got some new life in them, especially Kirk.


----------



## gunshow86de

soul_lip_mike said:


> Does anyone else find it comical when a band singer like this gets all fat and dad body'ish? Whether it's chuck billy, this guy, vince neil, axl rose. Just makes it seem like a parody of their earlier selves. /soapbox


This is the ideal male body. You may not like it, but his is what peak performance looks like.


----------



## Zhysick

feraledge said:


> I've spent the last ten years building pasture based meat programs, working with farmers and co-ops, and half the butchers in the butcher shop revival. What you're saying is true of steaks and burgers, which I grill with just salt and pepper, but dry rubs and BBQ are bread and butter. Even the leaves in pit roast barbacoa add flavor.
> I can tell most breeds, pasturing methods and herd management by looking at a rib eye, but if you're giving me brisket with just salt and pepper, I will definitely add some sauce to it without remorse.
> 
> In the BBQ ring, I grew up in the Midwest and will say this: I love a sweet KC style and a tangy vinegar, but a mediocre sweet BBQ is functional and a misstep with vinegar BBQ is a flavor nuke.
> 
> 
> I do agree on the cockstocks and rounded Vs. The BDM track was solid, but I give the crackle Kelly and custom V six bags of popcorn and a little novelty keychain knife. For the murder.



Well, I get what you say but to start I won't get any brisket in a BBQ, I have some principles man  Rib Eye, T-Bone, Ribs (slow cooked, of course), Sirloin... always beef or preferably ox, never veal (¿? I'm not sure a direct tanslation work for this) and pork is out of the BBQ for me... if it is in the BBQ for any weird reason then I will use sauce because is not a nice piece of meat so, why not... chicken also can go in the BBQ as some fish (mackerel for example) but will get this or that sauce, but never super tangy sauces like BBQ or ketchup... more like a mix of coriander and olive oil for the fish and peper flakes on olive oil for the chicken... not a big fan of that, as said, I prefer just salt to taste the meat but if it is not good enough then some sauce could make it to the plate


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Zhysick said:


> Well, I get what you say but to start I won't get any brisket in a BBQ, I have some principles man  Rib Eye, T-Bone, Ribs (slow cooked, of course), Sirloin... always beef or preferably ox, never veal (¿? I'm not sure a direct tanslation work for this) and pork is out of the BBQ for me... if it is in the BBQ for any weird reason then I will use sauce because is not a nice piece of meat so, why not... chicken also can go in the BBQ as some fish (mackerel for example) but will get this or that sauce, but never super tangy sauces like BBQ or ketchup... more like a mix of coriander and olive oil for the fish and peper flakes on olive oil for the chicken... not a big fan of that, as said, I prefer just salt to taste the meat but if it is not good enough then some sauce could make it to the plate


 In the USA, barbeque is generally referring to slowly cooking/smoking beef or pork ribs/shoulder, whole chickens, sausages, and beef brisket. Occasionally some other stuff, but those are the staples here.
Not steaks, or decent cuts, those are for grilling. Grilling is probably more in line with what most non-americans associate with barbequeing.

Basically there's 3 main ways to do bbq in the USA, divided by regional preference. Most other regions are hybrids of these ime, like where I live in MN (mix of texas and Kc styles from what I've seen).

Missouri and Kansas= more viscous, sugary sauces with ketchup or tomato pastes used as base. Beef and Pork Ribs are usually the go to in this area ime. Meats are generally basted with the sauces either at the end or throughout the process (depending on who's making it).

Texas= Dry rub of spices on meat. Sauce is served on the side (if at all) and varies from more vinegar heavy to KC style depending on who made it (eg Victoria, LA BBQ and Mickelthwaite in Austin all lean more vinegar). Brisket is the hallmark of texas BBQ. Mesquite smoke gives a very distinct and strong smell to the meats. Oak or apple is used in places too.

Carolinas= mustard/vinegar base sauces. Generally more into pork or chicken ime.

Also veal=beef.


----------



## Zhysick

KnightBrolaire said:


> In the USA, barbeque is generally referring to slowly cooking/smoking beef or pork ribs/shoulder, whole chickens, sausages, and beef brisket. Occasionally some other stuff, but those are the staples here.
> Not steaks, or decent cuts, those are for grilling. Grilling is probably more in line with what most non-americans associate with barbequeing.
> 
> Basically there's 3 main ways to do bbq in the USA, divided by regional preference. Most other regions are hybrids of these ime, like where I live in MN (mix of texas and Kc styles from what I've seen).
> 
> Missouri and Kansas= more viscous, sugary sauces with ketchup or tomato pastes used as base. Ribs are usually the go to in this area ime.
> 
> Texas= Dry rub of spices on meat. Sauce is served on the side (if at all) and varies from more vinegar heavy to KC style depending on who made it (eg Victoria, LA BBQ and Mickelthwaite in Austin all lean more vinegar). Brisket is the hallmark of texas BBQ. Mesquite smoke gives a very distinct and strong smell to the meats. Oak or apple is used in places too.
> 
> Carolinas= mustard/vinegar base sauces. Generally more into Pork ime.
> 
> Also veal=beef.



Oh shit! Yes! That's it... grilling! We don't have two words , it's "barbacoa" but it's actually closer to grilling. Yes. I just forgot that word existed... well, that clear up a lot of things and, basically, I can say that I like grilling but not barbequeing then. Clearer now I think, yep.

Also, I don't know if you make that distinction, but here we have 3 "ages" for the "beef": the youngest (about six months old, that's what I tried to call 'veal'), beef (15 to 24 months) and the oldest would be 'ox'? (I think there is a different animal but here it would be an old cow, normally male, so not exactly a bull but whatever... is never the same the name of the animal and the piece of meat).

I prefer cured meats, and from older animals which have a stronger flavour but don't mind a nice piece of wagyu and absolutelly enjoyed any piece of irish beef.


----------



## TheBlackBard

KnightBrolaire said:


> In the USA, barbeque is generally referring to slowly cooking/smoking beef or pork ribs/shoulder, whole chickens, sausages, and beef brisket. Occasionally some other stuff, but those are the staples here.
> Not steaks, or decent cuts, those are for grilling. Grilling is probably more in line with what most non-americans associate with barbequeing.
> 
> Basically there's 3 main ways to do bbq in the USA, divided by regional preference. Most other regions are hybrids of these ime, like where I live in MN (mix of texas and Kc styles from what I've seen).
> 
> Missouri and Kansas= more viscous, sugary sauces with ketchup or tomato pastes used as base. Beef and Pork Ribs are usually the go to in this area ime. Meats are generally basted with the sauces either at the end or throughout the process (depending on who's making it).
> 
> Texas= Dry rub of spices on meat. Sauce is served on the side (if at all) and varies from more vinegar heavy to KC style depending on who made it (eg Victoria, LA BBQ and Mickelthwaite in Austin all lean more vinegar). Brisket is the hallmark of texas BBQ. Mesquite smoke gives a very distinct and strong smell to the meats. Oak or apple is used in places too.
> 
> Carolinas= mustard/vinegar base sauces. Generally more into pork or chicken ime.
> 
> Also veal=beef.




I won't lie, I have gotten good results from slow cooking a rib-eye and then doing a reverse sear.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

TheBlackBard said:


> I won't lie, I have gotten good results from slow cooking a rib-eye and then doing a reverse sear.


yeah I was more just talking about what usually encompasses traditional barbeque in the areas I've lived/been. There's no real hard rules when it comes to cooking anymore. I've been playing around with vacuum sealing my steaks in marinade/liquid smoke and then doing them sous vide with a finish on the grill for _ aesthetics_


----------



## jephjacques

all barbeque is good. even shitty barbeque rules


----------



## Hollowway

gunshow86de said:


>


I loved him in Nacho Libre and School of Rock.


----------



## possumkiller

soul_lip_mike said:


> Does anyone else find it comical when a band singer like this gets all fat and dad body'ish? Whether it's chuck billy, this guy, vince neil, axl rose. Just makes it seem like a parody of their earlier selves. /soapbox


True. Why can't they do like they do with female reporters and actresses and other women visible to the public and just replace them with someone younger and more attractive when they become old and fat and unsightly? I mean, if they really wanted to keep the exact sound of the original artists, they could just have them performing behind the stage so that nobody would have to really look at them and the younger and more attractive ones could just mime it on the visible stage.


----------



## JimF

TheBlackBard said:


> I won't lie, I have gotten good results from slow cooking a rib-eye and then doing a reverse sear.



Reverse sear changed my life. True story.


----------



## JimF

soul_lip_mike said:


> Does anyone else find it comical when a band singer like this gets all fat and dad body'ish? Whether it's chuck billy, this guy, vince neil, axl rose. Just makes it seem like a parody of their earlier selves. /soapbox



Met Trevor in 2006 and pretty sure he looked like this then...


----------



## Andromalia

StevenC said:


> I had began barbecue ribs today and they were pretty good.



I first read "vegan barbecue" and was readying for a crusade.

That said, you heathens should remember that grilled and roasted beef aren't everything. Pot-au-feu and various recipes do include quite a bit of seasoning, if only because an animal that has been in a field will have pretty hard and tough leg muscles, which need long cooking before proper consumption.


----------



## StevenC

Andromalia said:


> I first read "vegan barbecue" and was readying for a crusade.
> 
> That said, you heathens should remember that grilled and roasted beef aren't everything. Pot-au-feu and various recipes do include quite a bit of seasoning, if only because an animal that has been in a field will have pretty hard and tough leg muscles, which need long cooking before proper consumption.


That was definitely a typo and I meant vegan.


----------



## FitRocker33

Ok WHAT has this thread become over the past few days LMAO


----------



## mbardu

FitRocker33 said:


> Ok WHAT has this thread become over the past few days LMAO



Barbecued couches and vegan dad bods.
I may be mixing things together with the Schecter thread too so don't @ me


----------



## Zhysick

StevenC said:


> That was definitely a typo and I meant vegan.



Zuchinni, pumpkin and obviously tomato and onion on the grill is just amazing. Potatos wraped in aluminum (or is aluminium for you? hahha never remember how is said in Ireland/N.Ireland) and put on the coal/charcoal... it's amazing. Specially as a side dish for a nice t-bone (yeah, I'm done with t-bones but the truth is the truth...)

What's the problem with chatting about food inbetween updates from ESP? I think it's a better topic than... I don't know, politics?


----------



## Celtic Frosted Flakes

Its never going to happen, but I hope ESP releases a full thickness Eclipse with a green/black crackle finish.

Or even better - a NV with a crackle finish.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

FitRocker33 said:


> Ok WHAT has this thread become over the past few days LMAO


duh this is the official ESP bbq thread


----------



## I play music

So what sig guitar reveals do we expect in a week?
Architects sig
maybe ADTR baritone EC?


----------



## Zhysick

ESP = Electric Sound Products Excellently Seasoned Pork


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

If we're listing stuff we wanna see I'd totally be down for a contoured out the ass Eclipse with that awesome neck carve, huge SS frets, locking tuners, fluence moderns, ebony, and a traditional finish. It would be amazing to see white with gold hardware and black binding. 

Like an LP custom but 100% modern.


----------



## StevenC

Dear ESP,



Please make these and I will buy one. At this point I might even settle for an LTD version. This is the perfect guitar, it ticks all the boxes. Maybe it needs a better quality Floyd and to be sparkly pink instead of sparkly gold, but you wouldn't put a nice vibrato on an LTD anyway.

Sincerely,
A rabid AAL fan


----------



## jephjacques

I'd have to put in a bridge humbucker but otherwise that guitar is 1000% my shit


----------



## Kaura

StevenC said:


> Dear ESP,
> 
> View attachment 87655
> 
> Please make these and I will buy one. At this point I might even settle for an LTD version. This is the perfect guitar, it ticks all the boxes. Maybe it needs a better quality Floyd and to be sparkly pink instead of sparkly gold, but you wouldn't put a nice vibrato on an LTD anyway.
> 
> Sincerely,
> A rabid AAL fan



I think I've said this before but slap some paint on the headstock and take a string off and it's goodbye Fender for me.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

FitRocker33 said:


> Ok WHAT has this thread become over the past few days LMAO



Because medium takes on BBQ are more interesting than ESP/LTDs whole 2021 lineup so far.


----------



## RobDobble6S7

I like my hot takes medium rare.


----------



## mbardu

MaxOfMetal said:


> Because medium takes on BBQ are more interesting than ESP/LTDs whole 2021 lineup so far.



No huge surprise, but widespread stainless steel on 1000 series is a pretty neat development in my book.
I suspect this might put those back on the radar for a bunch of folks.
No brand new shapes or crazy new feature besides that, but how often does that happen in the guitar world  ? if it ain't broke, right?

Just like BBQ...it's perfectly fine as is...so why would you *MAKE IT VEGAN???*


----------



## FitRocker33

I’ll continue to wish for my EII model that will never happen:
Full thickness Eclipse 7 in 26.5” scale, SS Frets, and any finish other than satin black, poplar Burl or fades. 

Been waiting for an eclipse like that did the past 4 years and all we got was the satin black evertune with a Duncan Pegasus. A PEGASUS!


----------



## I play music

mbardu said:


> No huge surprise, but widespread stainless steel on 1000 series is a pretty neat development in my book.
> I suspect this might put those back on the radar for a bunch of folks.
> No brand new shapes or crazy new feature besides that, but how often does that happen in the guitar world  ? if it ain't broke, right?
> 
> Just like BBQ...it's perfectly fine as is...so why would you *MAKE IT VEGAN???*


With SS frets they have removed any reason for me to even think about Schecter because now they offer the same features as Schecter but with the nicer ESP shapes. (Assuming some ERGs are coming in preview part 2 or 3)


----------



## Mathemagician

Zhysick said:


> ESP = Electric Sound Products Excellently Seasoned Pork



Excellently Seasoned Protein*

*for our Halal and Kosher bros


----------



## gunshow86de

ESP = Extra Sugar Preferred

Damn, they _are _choosing KC-style BBQ.


----------



## StevenC

Call me crazy, but I get twice as long out of a set of strings since I stopped eating meat. With NYXLs that adds up quick.


----------



## Hollowway

StevenC said:


> Dear ESP,
> 
> View attachment 87655
> 
> Please make these and I will buy one. At this point I might even settle for an LTD version. This is the perfect guitar, it ticks all the boxes. Maybe it needs a better quality Floyd and to be sparkly pink instead of sparkly gold, but you wouldn't put a nice vibrato on an LTD anyway.
> 
> Sincerely,
> A rabid AAL fan



I honestly have no fucking idea why they don’t make this. I swear - and I know I’m getting a reputation as a conspiracy theorist - the guitar industry has decided that no one gets a Floyd 8. There is no reason people wouldn’t buy this thing. I have to think you’d have at LEAST as many people buy this as would his normal sig (assuming LTD-LTD for apples to apples comparison).


----------



## Hollowway

Also, sign me up for that red couch thing he’s sitting on. We’re still talking about couches on here, right?


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

Hollowway said:


> Also, sign me up for that red couch thing he’s sitting on. We’re still talking about couches on here, right?


Only if they've been slow roasted in coals, and we gotta argue about sauce types too.


----------



## mbardu

Hollowway said:


> I honestly have no fucking idea why they don’t make this. I swear - and I know I’m getting a reputation as a conspiracy theorist - the guitar industry has decided that no one gets a Floyd 8. There is no reason people wouldn’t buy this thing. I have to think you’d have at LEAST as many people buy this as would his normal sig (assuming LTD-LTD for apples to apples comparison).



I think you overestimate the number of people willing to pay a premium (first for the guitar itself, but then probably even more for the small size of the production series if it were to even happen) for an 8-string with a Floyd. SSO is not an accurate representation of the public at large


----------



## feraledge

KnightBrolaire said:


> duh this is the official ESP bbq thread


YOU READ MY MIND


----------



## Hollowway

mbardu said:


> I think you overestimate the number of people willing to pay a premium (first for the guitar itself, but then probably even more for the small size of the production series if it were to even happen) for an 8-string with a Floyd. SSO is not an accurate representation of the public at large


Perhaps, but there are loads of niche instruments out there that are being produced. You could say the same thing about an 8 string V, or a 9 string. It’s just interesting how loads of 7 string hart tails exist. Loads of 8 string hard tails exist. Loads of 7 string trend exist. But there’s this black hole for 8 string trems. My honest guess is that most of the big companies are just followers, and as soon as a lower volume company makes one we will see it show up for the big companies. I was hoping it would happen with the BCR shredzilla, but who knows. And the schacter C-8 FR was cool, but I’m convinced that didn’t sell well because it was hideous.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Hollowway said:


> I honestly have no fucking idea why they don’t make this. I swear - and I know I’m getting a reputation as a conspiracy theorist - the guitar industry has decided that no one gets a Floyd 8. There is no reason people wouldn’t buy this thing. I have to think you’d have at LEAST as many people buy this as would his normal sig (assuming LTD-LTD for apples to apples comparison).




Buddy. Just go order a Balaguer. You can put floyds on 8s in their builder.


----------



## FitRocker33

Speaking of niche instruments, I love how nobody has mentioned that Aristides just released a headless multi scale 8 string made entirely out of hardened high tech goo. Doesn’t get much more niche than that.


----------



## I play music

Hollowway said:


> Perhaps, but there are loads of niche instruments out there that are being produced. You could say the same thing about an 8 string V, or a 9 string. It’s just interesting how loads of 7 string hart tails exist. Loads of 8 string hard tails exist. Loads of 7 string trend exist. But there’s this black hole for 8 string trems. My honest guess is that most of the big companies are just followers, and as soon as a lower volume company makes one we will see it show up for the big companies. I was hoping it would happen with the BCR shredzilla, but who knows. And the schacter C-8 FR was cool, but I’m convinced that didn’t sell well because it was hideous.


Djent kids don't know how to setup floyds...

... neither do I 

Honestly, it is an awesome guitar to look at but 8 string floyd sounds like hell to me and I would never buy it. However, I could see this selling very well with a fixed bridge and a bridge humbucker. Would still have that classy strat look but way more mainstream compatible.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

FitRocker33 said:


> Speaking of niche instruments, I love how nobody has mentioned that Aristides just released a headless multi scale 8 string made entirely out of hardened high tech goo. Doesn’t get much more niche than that.



Yeah, but it's not a production guitar they need to have built OEM and then distributed internationally to a network of thousands of dealers of various output. 

You just email Aristides that you want one [1] and they'll personally build you that already payed for one no problem. 

Anyone could order Javier's Strat 8 yesterday, but it'll be a full CS build north of $6k and take almost a year. Folks want something cheaper (if not necessarily cheap) and available for immediate (-ish) purchase. 

If we're talking about customs, then ESP already builds whatever, and so long as you don't have a US address to ship to, they'll even copy whatever you want from anyone else.


----------



## epsylon

Zhysick said:


> There's no confusion if you use the full name of the city. The island is 'La Palma' and the full name of the city is 'Las Palmas de Gran Canaria' which obvioulsy refers to the island it's in. Not going to talk about 'Santa Cruz de Tenerife' and 'Santa Cruz de La Palma' (both of which we normally call just 'Santa Cruz' and will mean one or the other depending on the situation or context) and even worse why we call the whole island of Gran Canaria just 'Las Palmas'... that's a mistery I have not yet unfold...



It's even worse than that, because the local spanish accent also devocalizes the s at the end of words into an h, which mean in essence they pronounce it "La[h] Palma[h]", but then again you'd have to be able to understand spanish spoken at 30000km/h to parse that in a sentence in real life


----------



## epsylon

StevenC said:


> and to be sparkly pink instead of sparkly gold



why_not_both.jpeg


----------



## xzacx

StevenC said:


> Call me crazy, but I get twice as long out of a set of strings since I stopped eating meat. With NYXLs that adds up quick.


I don't know if that's crazy, but I haven't eaten meat in over 20 years, and strings last forever for me, so maybe there's something to it.


----------



## gunshow86de

MFW Vegetarians/Vegans posting in a BBQ thread.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

xzacx said:


> I don't know if that's crazy, but I haven't eaten meat in over 20 years, and strings last forever for me, so maybe there's something to it.


*cough* correlation does not mean causation* 
But since we're throwing out random diet based anecdotes: I eat meat all the time and my strings still last forever.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

I eat meat, but still think it's hilarious how fragile folks get when someone brings up that they don't eat meat.


----------



## Hollowway

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> Buddy. Just go order a Balaguer. You can put floyds on 8s in their builder.



Got one being delivered on Wednesday!


----------



## Seabeast2000

Hollowway said:


> Got one being delivered on Wednesday!



You're going to need to up your complete proteins intake:


----------



## Musiscience

Seabeast2000 said:


> You're going to need to up your complete proteins intake:



This brand gave me the shits, avoiding it now.


----------



## StevenC

KnightBrolaire said:


> *cough* correlation does not mean causation*
> But since we're throwing out random diet based anecdotes: I eat meat all the time and my strings still last forever.


The last time I hung out with @Lorcan Ward he said my JPX would be great if the strings weren't dead. I changed them the day before. That was a year and a bit ago and strings last far longer now.


----------



## Mathemagician

Musiscience said:


> This brand gave me the shits, avoiding it now.



Hilariously on topic I have switched to plant-based protein supplements. No real reason other than price/availability near me. And no more protein farts/shits. It’s chalky as all get-out though. Almost doesn’t matter the brand. Small price to pay though imo.


----------



## Seabeast2000

Musiscience said:


> This brand gave me the shits, avoiding it now.



Yeah, I opted for the straight whey and caseins.


----------



## Rotatous

Me, waiting for new E-II 7 strings...


----------



## Mathemagician

Rotatous said:


> Me, waiting for new E-II 7 strings...



2022 apparently. No new EII’s ever again. LTD line too popular.


----------



## Zhysick

epsylon said:


> It's even worse than that, because the local spanish accent also devocalizes the s at the end of words into an h, which mean in essence they pronounce it "La[h] Palma[h]", but then again you'd have to be able to understand spanish spoken at 30000km/h to parse that in a sentence in real life



Oh, and you forgot to say that each island has a slightly different accent and in the mainland there are tons of different accents and a few languages too (apart from spanish)... Spain is a very very diverse country. I'm from one that will devocalize some of the 's' but not all of them so I say something closer to 'Las Palma[h]'. But we don't speak that fast, I mean, italians speak fast...


----------



## feraledge

Zhysick said:


> Oh, and you forgot to say that each island has a slightly different accent and in the mainland there are tons of different accents and a few languages too (apart from spanish)... Spain is a very very diverse country. I'm from one that will devocalize some of the 's' but not all of them so I say something closer to 'Las Palma[h]'. But we don't speak that fast, I mean, italians speak fast...


...but how's the bbq?


----------



## setsuna7

Mathemagician said:


> Excellently Seasoned Protein*
> 
> *for our Halal and Kosher bros


Amen to that brother!!


----------



## Zhysick

feraledge said:


> ...but how's the bbq?



Hahahahah actually thanks to knightbrolaire I realize that is "just grilling"... yeah, we have some seasoning stuff but you probably won't consider it bbq  most important thing here is you just don't do a bbq at home (some do but it's wierd) you go to this places:






How would you call it... recreational area? I don't know... but it's thousand times better than doing it at home: all the nature around, no traffic, no neighbours that can complain about the smoke...


----------



## Millul

Zhysick said:


> Oh, and you forgot to say that each island has a slightly different accent and in the mainland there are tons of different accents and a few languages too (apart from spanish)... Spain is a very very diverse country. I'm from one that will devocalize some of the 's' but not all of them so I say something closer to 'Las Palma[h]'. But we don't speak that fast, I mean, italians speak fast...



Not even close, mate - fast Spanish is def faster than (most) versions of fast Italian/Italian dialects I can think of.
Fast German/Saechsisch though, is something else...it's fast, with no pauses, 25 syllabes long words, AND it sounds hostile AF


----------



## Mathemagician

Anyone try the new Black metal m7? Any opinions on it? (I need to wait until the full lineup reveal but...)


----------



## Mathemagician

Millul said:


> Not even close, mate - fast Spanish is def faster than (most) versions of fast Italian/Italian dialects I can think of.
> Fast German/Saechsisch though, is something else...it's fast, with no pauses, 25 syllabes long words, AND it sounds hostile AF



Regionally the Canary Islands may be a bit slower or something though. But yeah Spanish is almost like a game to see how fast you can speak.


----------



## JD27

Mathemagician said:


> Anyone try the new Black metal m7? Any opinions on it? (I need to wait until the full lineup reveal but...)



Picked up one last March. First of the BM series I’ve owned or even played, definitely on par with the 1000s or signature models. It was MII and quality wise no different from the MIK models I’ve owned. That was a nice surprise, albeit it has been a while, the previous Indonesian G&L and LTDs I’ve had were a bit rough. Planned on picking up the AW-7b at some point, but it’s impossible to track down. Hopefully that carries over into this model year too.


----------



## feraledge

Sick


----------



## KnightBrolaire

feraledge said:


> View attachment 87724
> 
> Sick


oooh ex black metal perhaps?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

KnightBrolaire said:


> oooh ex black metal perhaps?


Correct


----------



## Mathemagician

Email also states the next phase reveal will come this Friday. 

UGH. THATS AN ENTIRE 4 daaaaaaays-uh!


----------



## feraledge

Still swinging for that Black Metal MH. I appreciate that this EX has the proper strap pin placement too.


----------



## Mathemagician

feraledge said:


> Still swinging for that Black Metal MH. I appreciate that this EX has the proper strap pin placement too.



The MH series needs the M-series neck shape & radius, not the H-series. Change my mind.


----------



## I play music

KnightBrolaire said:


> oooh ex black metal perhaps?


Or ex Swedish Melodic Death Metal ;-)


----------



## Zado

No chance for a single humb ESP explorer I guess?


----------



## feraledge

Still swinging for that Black Metal MH. I appreciate that this EX has the proper strap pin placement too.


----------



## I play music

Zado said:


> No chance for a single humb ESP explorer I guess?


I guess Gibson would sue them if they'd sell it outside of Japan.


----------



## feraledge

Mathemagician said:


> The MH series needs the M-series neck shape & radius, not the H-series. Change my mind.


They should all be extra thin U, I do agree. But the radius on all of them is 350.


----------



## feraledge

I think the best use of a Black Metal would be MH, trem, extra thin U profile and reverse dagger.


----------



## Zado

I play music said:


> I guess Gibson would sue them if they'd sell it outside of Japan.


That's why we can't have nice things


----------



## Mathemagician

feraledge said:


> They should all be extra thin U, I do agree. But the radius on all of them is 350.






Not the M7, thankfully it’s 400mm and that is a big part of the reason I’m hoping there is a similar LTD 7 but with a neck pickup in the next announcement. 

Also the M/MH needs a scoop/sculpt on the lower horn. The MH in particular. Side of my palm always comes up against the body of I go for the low strings high up.


----------



## feraledge

Zado said:


> That's why we can't have nice things


Basically the history of production guitars is exactly this.



Mathemagician said:


> View attachment 87731
> 
> 
> Not the M7, thankfully it’s 400mm and that is a big part of the reason I’m hoping there is a similar LTD 7 but with a neck pickup in the next announcement.
> 
> Also the M/MH needs a scoop/sculpt on the lower horn. The MH in particular. Side of my palm always comes up against the body of I go for the low strings high up.


Despite the forum title, sevens just don't register into my thoughts all that much.


----------



## possumkiller

Is it just me or do those black blast models have frets 17-22 scalloped?


----------



## Zhysick

FUCK! Blackmetal EX and Arrow... Ok. NGD when the divorce is done


----------



## Musiscience

possumkiller said:


> Is it just me or do those black blast models have frets 17-22 scalloped?



I think they do. The current production SN-1000 also does. LTD is killing it IMO.


----------



## possumkiller

feraledge said:


> View attachment 87724
> 
> Sick


Where do I get an emg with Blacked logo?


----------



## possumkiller

feraledge said:


> View attachment 87724
> 
> Sick


And please tell me that has a Jed Simon style reverse blade headstock.


----------



## I play music

Musiscience said:


> I think they do. The current production SN-1000 also does. LTD is killing it IMO.


The could scallop a few more frets
but yeah the first of the 3 previews is already looking great, exited for the sig guitars on Friday


----------



## Zhysick

possumkiller said:


> And please tell me that has a Jed Simon style reverse blade headstock.



I'm happy if it's not the F headstock... I mean, it SHOULD be an EX not an FX, right? RIGHT?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Zhysick said:


> I'm happy if it's not the F headstock... I mean, it SHOULD be an EX not an FX, right? RIGHT?



Like I said before, the email said it's a EX Black Metal. So yeah, we're getting our Jed Simon tribute guitar


----------



## I play music

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Like I said before, the email said it's a EX Black Metal. So yeah, we're getting our Jed Simon tribute guitar


Jed Simon ????


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

I play music said:


> Jed Simon ????









Jed Simon.


----------



## I play music

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Jed Simon.


Cool guitar but the EX black metal looks almost like a reissue of the ESP EX Jesper Strömblad


----------



## JD27

Brace yourselves, Arctic Winter nears.


----------



## feraledge

JD27 said:


> Brace yourselves, Artic Winter nears.
> 
> View attachment 87801


I'm fucking amped about these


----------



## feraledge

I suppose it sinks my hopes for a modern metal series of sea foam guitars with maple boards, but these are still rad


----------



## JD27

feraledge said:


> I'm fucking amped about these



Pretty sick... Makes sense though, pretty much only complaint I’ve heard about the BMs is just people wanting that spec in something other than black.


----------



## JD27

feraledge said:


> I suppose it sinks my hopes for a modern metal series of sea foam guitars with maple boards, but these are still rad



We get the complaint train rolling today and maybe they listen for next year!


----------



## feraledge

JD27 said:


> We get the complaint train rolling today and maybe they listen for next year!


On it. Also I REALLY hope that we get the EC FR in arctic metal


----------



## Mathemagician

JD27 said:


> Brace yourselves, Arctic Winter nears.
> 
> View attachment 87801





JD27 said:


> Pretty sick... Makes sense though, pretty much only complaint I’ve heard about the BMs is just people wanting that spec in something other than black.



Yah if the BM series comes in black and white then that is the exact correct move to make.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Okay yeah I'm more hyped about the Arctic Metal series more than anything else on the roster.


----------



## Musiscience

JD27 said:


> Brace yourselves, Arctic Winter nears.
> 
> View attachment 87801


o
m
g


----------



## KnightBrolaire

bruh the arctic winter EC is basically just a ted aguilar ec reissue with no neck pickup.


I'm more excited for the Black Metal ECFR tbh. floyd on an LP is titties


----------



## feraledge

KnightBrolaire said:


> bruh the arctic winter EC is basically just a ted aguilar ec reissue with no neck pickup.
> 
> 
> I'm more excited for the Black Metal ECFR tbh. floyd on an LP is titties


Homey don't play that.


----------



## Hoss632

JD27 said:


> Brace yourselves, Arctic Winter nears.
> 
> View attachment 87801


I'd like it more if it had a white top with black binding. The lack there of is a but off putting to me at least. otherwise the concept is pretty badass.


----------



## John

I'm just glad to see they're still at least making some more EC guitars equipped with both 24 frets and FR's.
If only the EC-II line follows suit apart from dealer exclusive for limited localities from several years ago, or even the USA line that's around today.


----------



## MFB

MRW ESP teases a black metal EX, followed by a whiteout EC


----------



## Zhysick

If there's going to be an Arctic Winter EX, Arrow NT or Viper then... fuck, I won't know what to do. Maybe sell everything and buy an oboe, who cares...


----------



## BigViolin

Black Metal Oboe.

I'm considering today Xmas eve.


----------



## gunshow86de

If you think guitars are expensive, don't even look at classical instruments. My sister plays/played oboe professionally and, good lord, her instrument was like almost $20k.


----------



## mbardu

gunshow86de said:


> If you think guitars are expensive, don't even look at classical instruments. My sister plays/played oboe professionally and, good lord, her instrument was like almost $20k.



Hmmm.
I'll just say... Concert pianos and violins...


----------



## Zhysick

mbardu said:


> Hmmm.
> I'll just say... Concert pianos and violins...



Yeah... I have seen cello cases more expensive than a Custom Shop Gibson

Actually electric guitars are one of the very few affordable professional instruments as you can have a professional level electric guitar with no much more than a 1000€.

We complain too much because we want them for free


----------



## BornToLooze

Zhysick said:


> Yeah... I have seen cello cases more expensive than a Custom Shop Gibson
> 
> Actually electric guitars are one of the very few affordable professional instruments as you can have a professional level electric guitar with no much more than a 1000€.
> 
> We complain too much because we want them for free



And we want all of them.


----------



## I play music

BornToLooze said:


> And we want all of them.


That's the point, most have a whole rack full of guitars 
Professional oboists probably still have only one good oboe (and maybe one not so good one from when they started)
So total money spent on instrument is probably not so different
My drummer's drum set cost way more than my guitar but counting all my stuff together I think the amount we have spent on our instruments is almost the same


----------



## gunch

artic winter forest?


----------



## soul_lip_mike

JD27 said:


> Brace yourselves, Arctic Winter nears.
> 
> View attachment 87801



ltd or real esp though?


----------



## JD27

soul_lip_mike said:


> ltd or real esp though?



Most definitely LTD.


----------



## Musiscience

No reveal yet?


----------



## I play music

Musiscience said:


> No reveal yet?


Agree !! I thought they are a Japanese company, Friday has only 10 mins left there !!!!


----------



## Asphyxia

Musiscience said:


> No reveal yet?


I just keep refreshing anxiously awaiting to disqualify every instrument for not meeting 100% exactly what I want.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

They might going by PST


----------



## Musiscience

Asphyxia said:


> I just keep refreshing anxiously awaiting to disqualify every instrument for not meeting 100% exactly what I want.



Yea, they better get my multiscale, microtonal fretted, 31 inch scale, bioluminescent finish, 11 string banjo right or I'll have a meltdown.

More seriously I'm just hoping for a basic 7 in the arctic white line.


----------



## Millul

If they do a fixed bridge Arctic White M, or even better, a fixed bridge EII M-II in an acceptable finish (sorry guys, the current ones are abhorrent), it will be really really hard for me not to give them some money...


----------



## gunshow86de

Looks like Josh is using that same LTD from the Architects video in the new Sylosis vid;


Not a lot of clear shots, but looks like TOM M with neck and body binding.

EDIT: 
And indeed it is a signature model.




https://www.espguitars.com/pages/2021-product-preview-2


----------



## Mathemagician

Millul said:


> If they do a fixed bridge Arctic White M, or even better, a fixed bridge EII M-II in an acceptable finish (sorry guys, the current ones are abhorrent), it will be really really hard for me not to give them some money...



I’m basically hoping for an arctic white or similar 7 string with a neck pickup. But I will settle for bridge-only.


----------



## Millul

Mathemagician said:


> I’m basically hoping for an arctic white or similar 7 string with a neck pickup. But I will settle for bridge-only.



Oh yeah, bridge only would do!


----------



## Seabeast2000

Oops wrong thread.


----------



## Musiscience

OH HELL YEAH


----------



## gunshow86de

Mike from Darkest Hour gets a sig too. Nice.


----------



## gunshow86de

Really hate that raised logo on the black metal and arctic metal series. Does anybody know if you can remove it without destroying the finish?


----------



## Mathemagician

Ooooooooohhhhhh catfish!!!! Shit. Shiiiiiiit. Fuck. Das niiiiice.

Are those EMG’s and not fluence?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands




----------



## gunshow86de

No new color for SC607, no Artic Winter EX or Forest. I'm only gonna edge.


----------



## JD27

gunshow86de said:


> Mike from Darkest Hour gets a sig too. Nice.



Very cool seeing Mike and Josh getting signatures. As much as I like the look of V shapes in general, I’ll probably never buy one, his did turn out really cool though.


----------



## JD27

Since I got my BM M-7HT I’ve kind of wanted the 6 string version as well, the Arctic version just might have to happen. It would need a White BW immediately instead of the EMG though. Giving these pickup rings was a little odd too considering the BMs don’t have them and they are the exact same guitar in white.




Dig the JM as well, nice finish, recessed TOM and bolt on maple neck. I could get down with that.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

gunshow86de said:


> No new color for SC607, no Artic Winter EX or Forest. I'm only gonna edge.



The Phoenix makes up for everything, IMO.


----------



## I play music

gunshow86de said:


> No new color for SC607, no Artic Winter EX or Forest. I'm only gonna edge.





> Note that we have other Signature Series guitars in the works, including a very special anniversary model that will be announced soon!


No new SC sig would surprise me but thanks to M-7BHT ARCTIC METAL I don't care
The ADTR guy has hinted on a baritone sig model with 27.7" which would be *AWESOME* alternative to PRS SE 277




Black Dalia Murder sig maybe? Don't really care
The 9 string monster !
Maybe new Javier Reyes model ?
I expect more new basses, maybe the multiscale in other color with SS frets?


----------



## Zado

Finally something that gets my interest


----------



## I play music

JD27 said:


> Since I got my BM M-7HT I’ve kind of wanted the 6 string version as well, the Arctic version just might have to happen. It would need a White BW immediately instead of the EMG though. Giving these pickup rings was a little odd too considering the BMs don’t have them and they are the exact same guitar in white


Maybe with that color they need pickup rings in case the pickup cavities are not nice
With black you wouldn't notice as much


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

gunshow86de said:


> If you think guitars are expensive, don't even look at classical instruments. My sister plays/played oboe professionally and, good lord, her instrument was like almost $20k.



Yeah my cheapest saxophone that literally didn't work was the price of all of my guitars. I'm looking at a professional alto for grad school and I'm gonna be putting out about 6k for one. That's not including my tenor and soprano, which are gonna be about 8k and 5k.


----------



## Zhysick

Arctic Arrow NT or Black EX? It's a tough decision... good both have an EMG81. No-nonsense guitars. If the M-HT had the Thin U (or even better the Extra Thin U) neck profile that would be a no brainer but I just don't like the Flat profile...


----------



## I play music

Zhysick said:


> Arctic Arrow NT or Black EX? It's a tough decision... good both have an EMG81. No-nonsense guitars. If the M-HT had the Thin U (or even better the Extra Thin U) neck profile that would be a no brainer but I just don't like the Flat profile...


HAHAHAHA maybe next time they present Arctic EX ;-)


----------



## Kaura

Mathemagician said:


> View attachment 87849



Apart from the headstock logo, reversed headstock, (assumably) thin U-neck, jumbo frets and the volume knob position this is pretty rad.


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

Artic metal arrow = want

NT = no want

But that Phoenix thoooo, that's the best thing they've put out yet.

Edit more EII????

Yes


----------



## feraledge

That JM is fucking sick. 
Gotta say, ESP is crushing this year. The Arctic series, the new black metal guitars...
Plus new EIIs coming? Damn...


----------



## JD27

Zhysick said:


> Arctic Arrow NT or Black EX? It's a tough decision... good both have an EMG81. No-nonsense guitars. If the M-HT had the Thin U (or even better the Extra Thin U) neck profile that would be a no brainer but I just don't like the Flat profile...



The M-HT does have an Extra Thin U


----------



## Apex1rg7x

gunshow86de said:


> No new color for SC607, no Artic Winter EX or Forest. I'm only gonna edge.


Man I hope there are new colors for the SC607...I feel like the purple has ran its course.


----------



## JD27

Apex1rg7x said:


> Man I hope there are new colors for the SC607...I feel like the purple has ran its course.



Heard a rumor that it will come in a special limited Flat Earth brown this year...


----------



## Spicypickles

That Arctic Phoenix and the 7 string acoustic. Holy want.


----------



## MrBouleDeBowling

THE EX BLACK METAL OMFG FINALLY


----------



## Albake21

JD27 said:


> Since I got my BM M-7HT I’ve kind of wanted the 6 string version as well, the Arctic version just might have to happen. It would need a White BW immediately instead of the EMG though. Giving these pickup rings was a little odd too considering the BMs don’t have them and they are the exact same guitar in white.
> 
> View attachment 87850
> 
> 
> Dig the JM as well, nice finish, recessed TOM and bolt on maple neck. I could get down with that.


These are the two I'm most interested in. Love the signature has a satin maple neck.


----------



## gunshow86de

JD27 said:


> Heard a rumor that it will come in a special limited Flat Earth brown this year...


----------



## Zhysick

I play music said:


> HAHAHAHA maybe next time they present Arctic EX ;-)



But... should I wait until that happens? That's the problem... what if I wait for it and it never comes and I miss the chance for the Black Metal EX? No way! Too risky... I MUST buy the BM EX and time will tell...

BTW, my EX had a frozen heart. Does that count like an Arctic EX? 



JD27 said:


> The M-HT does have an Extra Thin U



FUCK, really? I was completely sure that it was the Flat Thin because of the 43mm nut width but... the 42mm nut comes with the TOM bridges. Anyway, that M-HT SHOULD have a TOM bridge like the real deal M-I. Dissapointed... should get the EX in its place


----------



## MFB

I didn't realize how much the Black Metal, or hell even the regular LTD lines, were selling for these days. $900 for any of the Black Metal series, and the regular LTD 400s are now $750? Didn't realize how out of the loop I was until they finally made a product that caught my eye.

Arctic series will probably be the same as the BM, so I'm probably out on either; especially since I know that no dealer around here will actually have them in store to try.


----------



## cwhitey2

gunshow86de said:


> Looks like Josh is using that same LTD from the Architects video in the new Sylosis vid;
> 
> 
> Not a lot of clear shots, but looks like TOM M with neck and body binding.
> 
> EDIT:
> And indeed it is a signature model.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.espguitars.com/pages/2021-product-preview-2




I reallly like this! That finish


----------



## Asphyxia

Almost everyone has pickup rings. I thought they were going to make the hatred hard by adding stainless steel frets.
Into the trash they go. lol
That Arctic Metal EC is probably getting bought though. Pickup rings don't look that bad on it.


----------



## I play music

Zhysick said:


> But... should I wait until that happens? That's the problem... what if I wait for it and it never comes and I miss the chance for the Black Metal EX? No way! Too risky... I MUST buy the BM EX and time will tell...
> 
> BTW, my EX had a frozen heart. Does that count like an Arctic EX?


I meant the next preview part that is in January
And probably we have to wait some months from there anyways until the new models hit stores, at least that's how it was this year


----------



## Mathemagician

27” 8 string w/evertune. That’s a win for a few people on here no?

Also excerpt from the Arctic Metal series:

“All Arctic Metal Series guitars have Snow White Satin finishes with stainless steel frets, a Macassar ebony fingerboard with no inlays and glow-in-the-dark side markers, and black hardware. They all include a single aggressive-sounding EMG 81TW pickup with a push-pull control for coil splitting.”

Stainless steel, Luminlays, and push-pull. Also the M7 has the scoop I specifically requested a few days ago. Nice of them to think of me personally like that.


----------



## feraledge

I will say that I was hoping more pickup rings would be gone, but I can see how, conceptually, they were probably thinking white ones on the Arctic series were going to look cleaner. I can see that, but I think being over pickup rings is a better way to go.
I've been having EC GAS for some time now and they just dropped so many sick options. I really wish that FR one would have been Arctic, but damn... these are solid options.




But again, so many good choices made here:


----------



## Musiscience

JD27 said:


> Heard a rumor that it will come in a special limited Flat Earth brown this year...



As heavy as a bag of hammers I've heard though.


----------



## gunshow86de

For those that didn't read the bottom blurb;



> *Is That All?*
> No. We’re going to be introducing some new higher-end guitars in our E-II, ESP USA, and ESP Original Series soon. Make sure to watch our “ESP Presents 2021” streaming video show on January 11-13, 2021 for more info, and keep your eye on espguitars.com where we’ll continue to announce new models as they become available!



New ESP USA? USA Horizon II with Floyd please and thank you.


----------



## feraledge

gunshow86de said:


> USA Horizon II with Floyd please and thank you.


Ditto.

Can't figure out how to embed the Josh Middleton video. But I've had a lot of respect for how sick of a player that dude is for some time and he seems to really not be a douche bag. But this sig is sounding even better.


----------



## Mathemagician

Recessed TOM needs to be more common. Best of both worlds.


----------



## angl2k

Ugh, I really want to like the Evertune Tele but why did they make it satin again 

I guess the E-II models are my last hope for this year.


----------



## duffbeer33

Anyone have a sense of the pricing on the JM-II and when it might ship? Beautiful guitar. It's like they read my mind as I've been looking for a doublecut with fishman moderns....and also listening to plenty of Sylosis lately


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

duffbeer33 said:


> Anyone have a sense of the pricing on the JM-II and when it might ship? Beautiful guitar. It's like they read my mind as I've been looking for a doublecut with fishman moderns....and also listening to plenty of Sylosis lately



You're probably looking at around $1000 - $1100.


----------



## gunshow86de

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> You're probably looking at around $1000 - $1100.


I'd wager closer to $1500, based on the price increase for the updated Alex Wade sig. The Jeff Ling (Parkway Drive) sig is basically the JM without stainless frets or a top (and EMG instead of Fishman) and it's been $1200 for a few years now.


----------



## John

feraledge said:


> I will say that I was hoping more pickup rings would be gone, but I can see how, conceptually, they were probably thinking white ones on the Arctic series were going to look cleaner. I can see that, but I think being over pickup rings is a better way to go.
> I've been having EC GAS for some time now and they just dropped so many sick options. I really wish that FR one would have been Arctic, but damn... these are solid options.



It's nice to see they're still at it with the EC-FR's. And from the looks of it looks like they're including ebony fingerboards that are here to stay this time around for that particular variation, not just for limited runs.
It would've been nice to follow suit with the tiger eye ones they announced, but I digress.


----------



## AltecGreen

Mathemagician said:


> 2022 apparently. No new EII’s ever again. LTD line too popular.




This just hit the ESP Custom Shop store in Japan.

https://twitter.com/espcustomshop/status/1337322741720969216?s=20


----------



## Mathemagician

No E-II’s ever again. My uncle works at ESP.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

AltecGreen said:


> This just hit the ESP Custom Shop store in Japan.
> 
> https://twitter.com/espcustomshop/status/1337322741720969216?s=20



Isn't that just one of these: https://www.espguitars.com/products/20486-e-ii-m-ii-7-nt-hipshot


----------



## Steinmetzify

This motherfucker right here


----------



## AltecGreen

MaxOfMetal said:


> Isn't that just one of these: https://www.espguitars.com/products/20486-e-ii-m-ii-7-nt-hipshot


probably. These random guitars pop up on my twitter feed all the time.


----------



## mlp187

Mathemagician said:


> No E-II’s ever again. My uncle works at ESP.



EDIT: never mind, just read the post that prompted your post! 

I get the feeling this is probably a sarcastic reference to something, but in the event it is not, can you elaborate?


----------



## gunshow86de

Read the very bottom of the page, new E-II's are going to be shown in January.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

mlp187 said:


> I get the feeling this is probably a sarcastic reference to something, but in the event it is not, can you elaborate?


https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/my-uncle-works-at-nintendo


----------



## mlp187

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/my-uncle-works-at-nintendo


Fuck me I’ve entered my golden years


----------



## soul_lip_mike

AltecGreen said:


> This just hit the ESP Custom Shop store in Japan.
> 
> https://twitter.com/espcustomshop/status/1337322741720969216?s=20



I really hate that bareknuckle finish.


----------



## Mathemagician

mlp187 said:


> EDIT: never mind, just read the post that prompted your post!
> 
> I get the feeling this is probably a sarcastic reference to something, but in the event it is not, can you elaborate?



I am 1,000% kidding.


----------



## feraledge

soul_lip_mike said:


> I really hate that bareknuckle finish.


They probably fit really well in one guitar and one guitar only. But I have yet to see it.


----------



## MFB

feraledge said:


> They probably fit really well in one guitar and one guitar only. But I have yet to see it.



I feel like they work well on satin black guitars, but 99% of people don't put them on a guitar with that finish, so they then look shitty.


----------



## Metal Mortician

Damn, what happened to this place? For years the EX shape was LOATHED. 

Still, I see this as a definite step in the right direction.

I’ll take an EX and an F series in Black Metal. Thank you!


----------



## Seabeast2000

If I was boned up on getting an LP, I'd get this first:


----------



## Zhysick

I just checked to be sure and... yes. The BM EX has a reversed headstock. Has really ESP nailed it for once? Holy fuck... I am excited to spend over a thousand euros next year to get it and the last two guitars I bought go for 500€... both. With case.


----------



## Millul

JD27 said:


> Since I got my BM M-7HT I’ve kind of wanted the 6 string version as well, the Arctic version just might have to happen. It would need a White BW immediately instead of the EMG though. Giving these pickup rings was a little odd too considering the BMs don’t have them and they are the exact same guitar in white.
> 
> View attachment 87850
> 
> 
> Dig the JM as well, nice finish, recessed TOM and bolt on maple neck. I could get down with that.



So, the bastids actually did it...Arctic Winter M-1...it looks sick!
The JM looks great as well!

Let's see those new E-IIs in January, and then decide what to get...!


----------



## setsuna7

Man, that MSV-1 is making me want to sell my prized ESP NT7!!!


----------



## Kaura

I seriously can't be the only one who finds this fugly as all hell. So bland. I can't tell which is worse, classic 3-tone sunburst or the ESP diarrhea burst aka this one.


----------



## aesthyrian

I'm really stoked that Mike Schleibaum of Darkest Hour is getting a sig!https://www.espguitars.com/videos/2039884

The MSV-1 looks pretty sick, and the specs are nice too. I don't know a damn thing about ESP/LTD but damn this thing looks sick and as a lifelong DH fanboy I feel sorta obligated to own one.

Edit: managed to find this picture comparing Mike's MSV-1 to his old Les Paul that it's modeled after. I remember him always playing that Les Paul in the early days of DH.


----------



## soul_lip_mike

Musiscience said:


> OH HELL YEAH



‘I swear these look identical.


----------



## TheUnknownOne

Kaura said:


> I seriously can't be the only one who finds this fugly as all hell. So bland. I can't tell which is worse, classic 3-tone sunburst or the ESP diarrhea burst aka this one.



It would have been perfect in gloss black with chrome pickups, it does not look bad though but the sunburst + natural binding is overkill. Should have gone with one or the other


----------



## soul_lip_mike

TheUnknownOne said:


> It would have been perfect in gloss black with chrome pickups, it does not look bad though but the sunburst + natural binding is overkill. Should have gone with one or the other


Yeah I’ve never been a fan of brown ‘tobacco’ type bursts. Especially not for a ‘metal’ brand like ESP. I think the only guitar I’d like that type of finish on is a traditional Gibson Les Paul, Fender, or possibly a PRS...


----------



## feraledge

Kaura said:


> I seriously can't be the only one who finds this fugly as all hell. So bland. I can't tell which is worse, classic 3-tone sunburst or the ESP diarrhea burst aka this one.


Your opinion is wrong.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

soul_lip_mike said:


> ‘I swear these look identical.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

TheUnknownOne said:


> It would have been perfect in gloss black with chrome pickups, it does not look bad though but the sunburst + natural binding is overkill. Should have gone with one or the other





soul_lip_mike said:


> Yeah I’ve never been a fan of brown ‘tobacco’ type bursts. Especially not for a ‘metal’ brand like ESP. I think the only guitar I’d like that type of finish on is a traditional Gibson Les Paul, Fender, or possibly a PRS...





feraledge said:


> Your opinion is wrong.



BROKEN RECORD TIME. 

He pretty much combined his two favortie guitars. His M-II and Horizon II-NT. 









So it's something hes 100% familar with.


----------



## setsuna7

aesthyrian said:


> I'm really stoked that Mike Schleibaum of Darkest Hour is getting a sig!https://www.espguitars.com/videos/2039884
> 
> The MSV-1 looks pretty sick, and the specs are nice too. I don't know a damn thing about ESP/LTD but damn this thing looks sick and as a lifelong DH fanboy I feel sorta obligated to own one.
> 
> Edit: managed to find this picture comparing Mike's MSV-1 to his old Les Paul that it's modeled after. I remember him always playing that Les Paul in the early days of DH.


Man, I hope it’s a 25.5 inch, not 24.75!! I’m seriously GASing hard for this!!


----------



## Musiscience

soul_lip_mike said:


> ‘I swear these look identical.



They are! Except for one string and scale lenght. I doubt a more attractive series is going to be released for 2021.

This one is incredibly sick too. This year makes me wish I had more space for storage.






Edit: just forgot to add that the new Sylosis material is killing it and Josh Middleton's sig is also killer. Such a great year for music in general despite all current events.


----------



## soul_lip_mike

Musiscience said:


> They are! Except for one string and scale lenght. I doubt a more attractive series is going to be released for 2021.
> 
> This one is incredibly sick too. This year makes me wish I had more space for storage.
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: just forgot to add that the new Sylosis material is killing it and Josh Middleton's sig is also killer. Such a great year for music in general despite all current events.



Ok wow I can't believe I missed the string count....to my credit I am on 2 hours of sleep due to a newborn that is less than a week old.....I'll be showing myself out now...


----------



## I play music

Kaura said:


> I seriously can't be the only one who finds this fugly as all hell. So bland. I can't tell which is worse, classic 3-tone sunburst or the ESP diarrhea burst aka this one.


To me it looks just a bit boring overall
Arctic Winter would be more my choice to get at least some attention at gigs 

Also I remember this guy being a LP/EC guy, did he switch to Superstrats because he joined Architects?
Does he use this guitar for both bands? Somehow an EC for Sylosis and a baritone for Architects would have made more sense to me. Probably ESP did not want to give him 2 sigs so he went for something in the middle?


----------



## aesthyrian

setsuna7 said:


> Man, I hope it’s a 25.5 inch, not 24.75!! I’m seriously GASing hard for this!!



Good question.. I just assumed it was 25.5" and I hope it is.


----------



## TheUnknownOne

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> BROKEN RECORD TIME.
> 
> He pretty much combined his two favortie guitars. His M-II and Horizon II-NT.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So it's something hes 100% familar with.




Yes, notice how white binding works better here.


----------



## Musiscience

soul_lip_mike said:


> Ok wow I can't believe I missed the string count....to my credit I am on 2 hours of sleep due to a newborn that is less than a week old.....I'll be showing myself out now...



Congrats on the newborn! 

I needed to double check too after the first glance, it's really hard to spot even next to each other.


----------



## feraledge

Every choice he made was intentional. DBSB is classiest production finishes on a Horizon. And I'm with him on the natural binding for the same reason: throwback to having an older MH with it.
But none of Josh's specs are accidental.
Watch that promo video.


----------



## Mathemagician

soul_lip_mike said:


> Ok wow I can't believe I missed the string count....to my credit I am on 2 hours of sleep due to a newborn that is less than a week old.....I'll be showing myself out now...



Happy belated new-mini-Mike day!



Metal Mortician said:


> Damn, what happened to this place? For years the EX shape was LOATHED.
> 
> Still, I see this as a definite step in the right direction.
> 
> I’ll take an EX and an F series in Black Metal. Thank you!



Someone needs to play a model long enough to make others have nostalgia.


Also for the natural binding my mid-00’s MH-400 has natural binding which is the correct choice for all MH binding.


----------



## Kaura

feraledge said:


> Your opinion is wrong.



Wrong as pineapple on pizza.


----------



## Bodes

Kaura said:


> Wrong as pineapple on pizza.



Pineapple on pizza... bleh!!!! So awful.


----------



## Kaura

Bodes said:


> Pineapple on pizza... bleh!!!! So awful.



From geography, to bbq, to bad tastes. This thread has everything.


----------



## feraledge

Kaura said:


> Wrong as pineapple on pizza.


How about this one: pineapple and ham make for a great pizza. Because that's a fact.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

see this is what happens when there's no unpopular opinions thread.


----------



## Seabeast2000

KnightBrolaire said:


> see this is what happens when there's no unpopular opinions thread.



This thread is going to be couched.


----------



## Zado

Kaura said:


> Wrong as pineapple on pizza.


Yeah, pineapple pizza is wrong on so many levels it's hard to count.


----------



## Bodes

feraledge said:


> How about this one: pineapple and ham make for a great pizza. Because that's a fact.



Where is the neg rep button when you need it??? 

So this thread has gone from arguing about BBQ, to couches to now pineapple on pizza.

Even the pizza ESP guitar doesn't have pineapple on it. /thread


----------



## Millul

Guys, please remember there are Italians on this board...a bit of decency, would you?!?


----------



## Zhysick

Zado said:


> Yeah, pineapple pizza is wrong on so many levels it's hard to count.



Dude, I know you are italian, but accept it: pizza with pineapple and carbonara made with cream. Forget about the classic salamino or the yolk with pancetta. That's part from the past. It hurts, I KNOW!  

By the way, pineapple and bacon is better than pineapple and ham


----------



## Mathemagician

People put HAM on pizza? Like instead of pepperoni, salami, etc? Ham is the worst way to serve any type of pork cut, which is already the cheapest/worst type of meat. Ham is like awful^2.


----------



## gunshow86de

Papa John's BBQ Chicken is the best pizza but y'all ain't ready to have that conversation.


----------



## Zhysick

Mathemagician said:


> People put HAM on pizza? Like instead of pepperoni, salami, etc? Ham is the worst way to serve any type of pork cut, which is already the cheapest/worst type of meat. Ham is like awful^2.



That's why I say it's better with bacon because yes, ham is just shitty pork meat, not very tasteful to start. But smoked bacon and pineapple... fuck, that's great.



gunshow86de said:


> Papa John's BBQ Chicken is the best pizza but y'all ain't ready to have that conversation.



If you are going as extrem as that then I will position to the italians side and say that PAPA JOHN'S SHIT IS NOT PIZZA (tastes good, of course, with tons of sugar and fat is obviously going to be tasty, but that's not pizza... )


----------



## I play music

If ya all wanna see some crazy pizza google images "swedish pizza"


----------



## gunshow86de

I play music said:


> If ya all wanna see some crazy pizza google images "swedish pizza"




Are those..... bananas?


----------



## Zhysick

I'm not a fan of bananas on the pizza. Here in the canaries people put bananas on anything but in the pizza... nope. The texture is not the right one for a pizza. Maybe, just maybe, it should be sliced and roasted before so it keeps a bit more its texture and shape? Not interested in trying myself anyway...

On the other hand, those are bananas AND nuts. NUTS!


----------



## Millul

Ok, that's it.
I'm making a list of people I'll propose the mods to ban FOR LIFE in defense of pizza!

@Zhysick just saved himself (barely...)



Now, joking aside...the absolute WORST I've ever seen is Brazilian pizza.
Google it, and suffer.


----------



## Seabeast2000

NGL, Spam on pizza sounds hella good and better than ham.


----------



## Mayhew

You guys are close. It's ham, pineapple and green olives. You'll thank me later.


----------



## Leviathus

lol wtf is going on in here


----------



## Zhysick

Mayhew said:


> You guys are close. It's ham, pineapple and green olives. You'll thank me later.



Never green olives on pizza. I prefer it without olives but if there has o be olives must be black as those are the ones that after the heat of the oven get a better flavour, not worse like green olives...


----------



## Zhysick

Well, anyway, worst thing you can do to a pizza is using ketchup. Not even talking mayo, OK? Keep it civilised...


----------



## gunch

gunch said:


> artic winter forest?
> 
> View attachment 87839





ESP Guitars said:


> NO


----------



## cardinal

Thread title needs to change to something about BBQ and pizza.


----------



## MFB

Who the fuck is shitting on ham? Go fuck yourself if you think ham isn't the GOAT of holiday meals! A nice side of baked macaroni, mashed potatoes and gravy, little bit of corn and a roll? God damn, gimme that shit right fucking now.

I finally put a strap on my SG and unfortunately I didn't realize how true the neck dive is  Might put it on the market for either a TE or EC.


----------



## Mathemagician

MFB said:


> Who the fuck is shitting on ham? Go fuck yourself if you think ham isn't the GOAT of holiday meals! A nice side of baked macaroni, mashed potatoes and gravy, little bit of corn and a roll? God damn, gimme that shit right fucking now.
> 
> I finally put a strap on my SG and unfortunately I didn't realize how true the neck dive is  Might put it on the market for either a TE or EC.



A honey baked ham prepared by professionals is one thing. (Yes SOME people grandmas do count as professionals, others no). I’m talking about the near-cold-cut abominations that I have seen people use on pizza.

Also cold cut ham in any form is disgusting. Again, salami or go home. But really it’s all about chicken/Turkey anyways. Obviously not on pizza. BECAUSE HAM AND COLD CUTS DONT BELONG ON PIZZA.

And MAN I cannot wait to see what new E-II’s allegedly exist that I’ll never see in a music store ever.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

prosciutto is the only acceptable form of ham on pizza. Prosciutto +dates on pizza is titties.


----------



## couverdure

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> BROKEN RECORD TIME.
> 
> He pretty much combined his two favortie guitars. His M-II and Horizon II-NT.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So it's something hes 100% familar with.



Didn't the Horizon belong to Tom Searle before he passed away or did Josh get another one as a tribute to him? I remember watching Architects' Rig Rundown video and I think his tech said it used to be Tom's guitar.


----------



## Shoeless_jose

couverdure said:


> Didn't the Horizon belong to Tom Searle before he passed away or did Josh get another one as a tribute to him? I remember watching Architects' Rig Rundown video and I think his tech said it used to be Tom's guitar.



Pretty sure i saw Josh using the Horizon on YT long before joining Architects. 

But yeah Josh and the Darkest Hour sig are both filthy


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

couverdure said:


> Didn't the Horizon belong to Tom Searle before he passed away or did Josh get another one as a tribute to him? I remember watching Architects' Rig Rundown video and I think his tech said it used to be Tom's guitar.



The one you're talking about was black.


----------



## couverdure

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> The one you're talking about was black.


Huh? Wasn't it always sunburst?








He also had an E-II Horizon with a cockstock (picture from his Twitter) that Josh also used.


----------



## gunshow86de

Can I offer a truce?


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

gunshow86de said:


> Can I offer a truce?



We are not starting a debate on the tone of Supreme vs extra cheese pizza


----------



## gunshow86de

TheBolivianSniper said:


> We are not starting a debate on the tone of Supreme vs extra cheese pizza



Taco guitars work best for a nice crunch tone.


----------



## maximummetal288

Saw this on Helmet's Instagram today. Would love to see a reissue of either of his old signature models.


----------



## feraledge

maximummetal288 said:


> Saw this on Helmet's Instagram today's. Would love to see a reissue of either of his old signature models.


Would be sick to see the brushed aluminum one again.


----------



## Mathemagician

Mayhew said:


> You guys are close. It's ham, pineapple and green olives. You'll thank me later.



How can olive oil be so good, but olives be so aggressively bad?



Leviathus said:


> lol wtf is going on in here



This is the ESP guitars thread...I see no issues here.


----------



## Zado

Zhysick said:


> Dude, I know you are italian, but accept it: pizza with pineapple and carbonara made with cream. Forget about the classic salamino or the yolk with pancetta. That's part from the past. It hurts, I KNOW!
> 
> By the way, pineapple and bacon is better than pineapple and ham


It's the stomach where it hurts the most I think


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

couverdure said:


> Huh? Wasn't it always sunburst?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He also had an E-II Horizon with a cockstock (picture from his Twitter) that Josh also used.


I was watching the rig rundown, and they pull out a black Horizon with pearl binding and say it's Tom's.


----------



## cwhitey2

KnightBrolaire said:


> prosciutto is the only acceptable form of ham on pizza. Prosciutto +dates on pizza is titties.


A pizza shop near my house has the best pineapple pizza in the tri-state region 

Prosciutto with pineapple chutney (i wish i took a pic). The first time i had it i actually called the shop back to tell them how good it was!


----------



## Triple-J

maximummetal288 said:


> Saw this on Helmet's Instagram today. Would love to see a reissue of either of his old signature models.



On the phase 2 preview page it does say there's an anniversary artist model due to be announced and Page Hamilton was the first guy I thought of as he's been an ESP endorsee for 32 years in 2021 so fingers crossed.

As for the pizza topping debate It's eggs, mozzarella, panacetta & prosciutto with a dash of chilli pesto for life!


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

I'm curious to see if it's an anniversary of an artist being with ESP, an album release, or the introduction of a guitar.

Because next year marks the 30th anniversary of the Black Album. Which is also the first year Kirk Hammett got his KH-3. 

http://www.guitarscollector.com/1991---esp-kh-3--spider-.html

And Het's Wolf EXP.

http://www.guitarscollector.com/1991---esp-mx-250--man-to-wolf-.html

I'll be honest, I'd fucking love both.


----------



## cwhitey2

Triple-J said:


> On the phase 2 preview page it does say there's an anniversary artist model due to be announced and Page Hamilton was the first guy I thought of as he's been an ESP endorsee for 32 years in 2021 so fingers crossed.
> 
> As for the pizza topping debate It's eggs, mozzarella, panacetta & prosciutto with a dash of chilli pesto for life!


Hopefully ESP doesn't make just 32 of them!


----------



## Zhysick

KnightBrolaire said:


> prosciutto is the only acceptable form of ham on pizza. Prosciutto +dates on pizza is titties.



Have you tried spanish serrano ham on a pizza? Stronger and salty flavour. It belongs to pizza. Sorry italian friends, but some spanish dude improved your prosciutto


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Zhysick said:


> Have you tried spanish serrano ham on a pizza? Stronger and salty flavour. It belongs to pizza. Sorry italian friends, but some spanish dude improved your prosciutto


yeah serrano ham works too. Prosciutto is usually easier to get in the states though, which is why I usually use it.


----------



## soul_lip_mike

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I'm curious to see if it's an anniversary of an artist being with ESP, an album release, or the introduction of a guitar.
> 
> Because next year marks the 30th anniversary of the Black Album. Which is also the first year Kirk Hammett got his KH-3.
> 
> http://www.guitarscollector.com/1991---esp-kh-3--spider-.html
> 
> And Het's Wolf EXP.
> 
> http://www.guitarscollector.com/1991---esp-mx-250--man-to-wolf-.html
> 
> I'll be honest, I'd fucking love both.



I wish there was a way for them to license the shape from Gibson so we could get an MX easily stateside.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

My fiance's favorite pizza is pineapple, mushroom, and ham.


----------



## Zhysick

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> My fiance's favorite pizza is pineapple, mushroom, and ham.



That's the one I usually order but with bacon instead of ham.


----------



## I play music

Triple-J said:


> On the phase 2 preview page it does say there's an anniversary artist model due to be announced and Page Hamilton was the first guy I thought of as he's been an ESP endorsee for 32 years in 2021 so fingers crossed.
> 
> As for the pizza topping debate It's eggs, mozzarella, panacetta & prosciutto with a dash of chilli pesto for life!


Not sure if serious but usually anniversary models are for round numbers not 32


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

soul_lip_mike said:


> I wish there was a way for them to license the shape from Gibson so we could get an MX easily stateside.



Yeah, a true MX will never happen, but a man-to-wolf Snakebyte would definitely be on the cards.


----------



## Flappydoodle

Cool that Josh got a signature model

Pretty nice specs too, but the weird thing for a signature model is is - it is NOT a set of specs that he has ever used before. It's like he blended two of his other guitars. He often plays a neck through Horizon, and a bolt-on M-I. So I guess you could say he combined those, and added stainless steel frets.

IMO, it was probably more of a marketing decision by ESP than anything else. Otherwise his signature would just be a Horizon with Fishmans, which is a bit "meh". The bolt-on saves them some assembly, and the stainless steel frets add some desirability.


----------



## Seabeast2000

Someone mentioned the 1000 series LTD's are having the SS fret option. Is this most, a few or am I missing where they list it in the specs?


----------



## gunshow86de

Seabeast2000 said:


> Someone mentioned the 1000 series LTD's are having the SS fret option. Is this most, a few or am I missing where they list it in the specs?



It's written in the description on nearly every model in the previews. 
https://www.espguitars.com/pages/2021-product-preview-1
https://www.espguitars.com/pages/2021-product-preview-2


----------



## Mathemagician

Yeah they pretty much have to compete with Schecter on that mid-range market now. I noticed more of the floyds also look to have stainless steel screws/blocks.


----------



## CYPA

gunshow86de said:


> No new color for SC607, no Artic Winter EX or Forest. I'm only gonna edge.



Not to get your hopes up...but they snuck the following sentence into the Phase II announcement:

_"Note that we have other Signature Series guitars in the works, including a very special anniversary model that will be announced soon!"_


----------



## Celtic Frosted Flakes

CYPA said:


> _"Note that we have other Signature Series guitars in the works, including a very special anniversary model that will be announced soon!"_



I'm looking forward to the 15th year anniversary model of the Dave Mustaine Axxion.


----------



## aesthyrian

hahah for anyone that doesn't remember


----------



## Millul

Zhysick said:


> Have you tried spanish serrano ham on a pizza? Stronger and salty flavour. It belongs to pizza. Sorry italian friends, but some spanish dude improved your prosciutto



(you KNEW I'd have replied to this...)

Jamon Iberico and its hiterations are really good, but this tells me you haven't tried prosciutto toscano ;-)

Now, a Spain Vs Italy saturated fats showdown, with all the best cold cuts and chessese, would be amazing!


----------



## I play music

aesthyrian said:


> hahah for anyone that doesn't remember



That's what happens when guitarists believe themselves designers. 0:32 Abasi would stretch that "ergonomic benefit" a bit more


----------



## I play music

Millul said:


> (you KNEW I'd have replied to this...)
> 
> Jamon Iberico and its hiterations are really good, but this tells me you haven't tried prosciutto toscano ;-)
> 
> Now, a Spain Vs Italy saturated fats showdown, with all the best cold cuts and chessese, would be amazing!


About to order some pizza... you guys really have me confused now which one to choose


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

aesthyrian said:


> hahah for anyone that doesn't remember




Ah yes, the guitar that Dave obviously had a hand in designing. A guitar he was so proud of he used it *checks notes* never live.


----------



## Mathemagician

I play music said:


> About to order some pizza... you guys really have me confused now which one to choose



Plain pepperoni. No one ever gets mad that they ate pepperoni pizza. (Substitute beef sausage if appropriate).


----------



## valkyrie

max cavalera may not have the absolute worst taste in guitars, but goddamn if he isnt up there....

The arctic metal series isnt too bad though, although I wish theyd just do the normal logos on the headstock for them, as well as the black metal series


----------



## Musiscience

aesthyrian said:


> hahah for anyone that doesn't remember




This looks like what a 14 yo would doodle on his math notes during class. Radical.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Musiscience said:


> This looks like what a 14 yo would doodle on his math notes during class. Radical.



I mean he sounds like a 14 year old presenting an oral report in this video.


----------



## gunshow86de

I'd actually like the Axxion with different inlays. If Dave was really cool he'd have named it the Axxxion.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

gunshow86de said:


> I'd actually like the Axxion with different inlays. If Dave was really cool he'd have named it the Axxxion.


SHould have went to Schecter.


----------



## Seabeast2000

gunshow86de said:


> It's written in the description on nearly every model in the previews.
> https://www.espguitars.com/pages/2021-product-preview-1
> https://www.espguitars.com/pages/2021-product-preview-2



There it is!


----------



## Zhysick

Millul said:


> (you KNEW I'd have replied to this...)
> 
> Jamon Iberico and its hiterations are really good, but this tells me you haven't tried prosciutto toscano ;-)
> 
> Now, a Spain Vs Italy saturated fats showdown, with all the best cold cuts and chessese, would be amazing!



I have tried different variations of prosciutto and all of them are amazing and don't tell to the valencian forumites but I prefer a good risotto over a paella by a mile... 

So, when is that showdown happening? I will break my 2020 rule of "no animal products" to eat until death in there...


----------



## Zhysick

Mathemagician said:


> Plain pepperoni. No one ever gets mad that they ate pepperoni pizza. (Substitute beef sausage if appropriate).



I know "pepperoni" is been in use for a hundred years but I still hate that word as it is an invention... that's fucking salami. I love salami. Just call it salami again.

I expect the italians by my side on this: bury the "pepperoni" word and call it salami and make carbonara great again (with yolk instead of cream).

And put pineapple on pizza.

Sorry, had to 

PS: I have just ordered a pizza with pineapple for dinner... mmmm... yummi


----------



## Millul

Zhysick said:


> I have tried different variations of prosciutto and all of them are amazing and don't tell to the valencian forumites but I prefer a good risotto over a paella by a mile...
> 
> So, when is that showdown happening? I will break my 2020 rule of "no animal products" to eat until death in there...



And to think that, for some reason, my dad makes a pretty spectacular paella, while I thnk he's never tried his hand at risotto in 77 years 

For the showdown, let's see...gotta say, Dresden, where I live now, is a beautiful city, but Tenerife would probably be a better battleground for that!


----------



## Millul

Zhysick said:


> I know "pepperoni" is been in use for a hundred years but I still hate that word as it is an invention... that's fucking salami. I love salami. Just call it salami again.
> 
> I expect the italians by my side on this: bury the "pepperoni" word and call it salami and make carbonara great again (with yolk instead of cream).
> 
> And put pineapple on pizza.
> 
> Sorry, had to
> 
> PS: I have just ordered a pizza with pineapple for dinner... mmmm... yummi



SalamE, my friend!
Yolk on carbonara is a hill I'll gladly die onto (with cream, it simply is NOT a carbonara).

Just don't call it pizza, and feel free to put whatever you want on it


----------



## Musiscience

Zhysick said:


> I know "pepperoni" is been in use for a hundred years but I still hate that word as it is an invention... that's fucking salami. I love salami. Just call it salami again.
> 
> I expect the italians by my side on this: bury the "pepperoni" word and call it salami and make carbonara great again (with yolk instead of cream).
> 
> And put pineapple on pizza.
> 
> Sorry, had to
> 
> PS: I have just ordered a pizza with pineapple for dinner... mmmm... yummi



This thread is about to nake me order a pineapple pizza too


----------



## Zhysick

Millul said:


> SalamE, my friend!
> Yolk on carbonara is a hill I'll gladly die onto (with cream, it simply is NOT a carbonara).
> 
> Just don't call it pizza, and feel free to put whatever you want on it



SalamI in spanish, is the same thing basically  but I have to admit that I thought it was salami for singular and salamE for plural, for whatever reason, I am not good at italian.

It's pizza.



Well, you are italian, for sure you know where Tenerife is so... I will gladly buy you a coffee and a beer. Tons of italian cafeterias to enjoy nice coffee here. But in Dresde I think it's a bit too cold for an outdoors food battle right now... 



Musiscience said:


> This thread is about to nake me order a pineapple pizza too



Mine is about to come... I can smell it and taste the sweet juice mixed with the salty cheese... oh yes! Almost as good as when you open the case for the first time and take a big dose of that smell of a nitro finished guitar...


----------



## dshea19

It would be nice to have a middle ground between the 1000 and 200 series SNs. Would also be nice for more SN 22 fret HSS options. Something to go against the Ibanez AZ lineup.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

The arctic metal guitars really should have white fretboards. Missed opportunity. Something about those guitars just doesn't look right.


----------



## Zhysick

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> The arctic metal guitars really should have white fretboards. Missed opportunity. Something about those guitars just doesn't look right.



I would go white hardware before white fingerboard but both would have been perfect. Absolute white. If Epiphone did it for the Trivium guy why not ESP? I'm with you on this but I still love the Arctic series as they are. Look amazing.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Random, but I noticed Alex Skolnick posted this video...
...And I wonder how fucking Ben Weinman feels about THE fuckin Alex Skolnick owning one of his guitars.


----------



## Bodes

Musiscience said:


> This thread is about to nake me order a pineapple pizza too



I feel sorry for you! I wouldn't wish a pineapple pizza on anyone! 

Anyways, I would like to grab an axxion. Just for the WTF is that looks I'd get.


----------



## Seabeast2000

That Axxion looks like an Iceman got drunk one night at NAMM and had sex with a BCR back at the hotel.


----------



## Musiscience

Bodes said:


> I feel sorry for you! I wouldn't wish a pineapple pizza on anyone!
> 
> Anyways, I would like to grab an axxion. Just for the WTF is that looks I'd get.



Just got done eating it. I'll probably wish it again on my future self actually.


----------



## Mathemagician

Zhysick said:


> I know "pepperoni" is been in use for a hundred years but I still hate that word as it is an invention... that's fucking salami. I love salami. Just call it salami again.
> 
> I expect the italians by my side on this: bury the "pepperoni" word and call it salami and make carbonara great again (with yolk instead of cream).
> 
> And put pineapple on pizza.
> 
> Sorry, had to
> 
> PS: I have just ordered a pizza with pineapple for dinner... mmmm... yummi



In America pepperoni is red. Salami is pink and usually has lil’ peppercorns or whatever still in it. Both are delicious. And very likely the same thing made slightly differently. 



DrakkarTyrannis said:


> The arctic metal guitars really should have white fretboards. Missed opportunity. Something about those guitars just doesn't look right.



Ew no. White + black = Sexy. White + White = Niche nonsense that no one buys. Ask Epiphone if they would sell without a big name endorser. 



Zhysick said:


> I would go white hardware before white fingerboard but both would have been perfect. Absolute white. If Epiphone did it for the Trivium guy why not ESP? I'm with you on this but I still love the Arctic series as they are. Look amazing.



Yeah those were way uglier than the “regular” black-beauty inspired LP model. Ask anyone named me.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

Mathemagician said:


> Rambling incorrect nonsense


Black metal guitars = all black
Arctic metal = all white


----------



## Mathemagician

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Black metal guitars = all black
> Arctic metal = all white



All Black = super cool
All white = super lame


----------



## Quiet Coil

I (occasionally) put kimchi on my pizza, and am convinced it goes with nearly everything. Fight me.

But seriously, that’s all I’ve got. Haven’t owned an ESP in 10 years, more power to y’all.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

Mathemagician said:


> Retarded animal noises


No


----------



## Mathemagician

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Grumpy Edgy Misquotes



I’d agree with you, but then we’d both be wrong.


----------



## valkyrie

Lets get back to how glorious this is:


----------



## Kaura

Can't believe people complain about pineapple on pIzza but then those same people put peach or pear onto their pizza.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Mathemagician said:


> Ask Epiphone if they would sell without a big name endorser.



They did it on four separate guitars, couldn't have been too bad of a seller.


----------



## feraledge

Musiscience said:


> Just got done eating it. I'll probably wish it again on my future self actually.


I legit laughed out loud. +2 pos rep.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

Mathemagician said:


> Fart noises


Get your own shtick. Anyways I'd love an all white ESP. 
All white F with a white fretboard? Yes lawd. Although I'd need a "White Winter" pickup.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Quiet Coil said:


> I (occasionally) put kimchi on my pizza, and am convinced it goes with nearly everything. Fight me.
> 
> But seriously, that’s all I’ve got. Haven’t owned an ESP in 10 years, more power to y’all.


If it's mul kimchi (freshly made), yes.
but kimchi that isn't fresh develops such a strong flavor that it can easily overpower other ingredients. 
There's a pizza place here that does a bulgogi and kimchi pizza. The mul kimchi works perfectly in that instance.


----------



## Zado

Kaura said:


> Can't believe people complain about pineapple on pIzza but then those same people put peach or pear onto their pizza.


Equally disgusting. And I'm not against new flavors, but some things have to be killed with fire.


----------



## Zado

Mathemagician said:


> All white = super lame


Nah you can still save them with gold hardware.


----------



## Zhysick

Zado said:


> Equally disgusting. And I'm not against new flavors, but some things have to be killed with fire.



I tried to kill the pineapple pizza with a few hundred Celsius degrees on my oven but turned out crispy and delicious.

Will keep on trying, I promise!


----------



## Millul

KnightBrolaire said:


> If it's mul kimchi (freshly made), yes.
> but kimchi that isn't fresh develops such a strong flavor that it can easily overpower other ingredients.
> There's a pizza place here that does a bulgogi and kimchi pizza. The mul kimchi works perfectly in that instance.



Man, I spent a few months in semi rural Korea last year...and nothing like this ever came up  now I'm scared!


----------



## Millul

Kaura said:


> Can't believe people complain about pineapple on pIzza but then those same people put peach or pear onto their pizza.



WHAT??!?!!!


----------



## cardinal

valkyrie said:


> Lets get back to how glorious this is:



it does kinda looks like it was barbecued with some pineapple glaze.


----------



## trem licking

Man i wish ESP would release some shit worthy of derailing a BBQ pizza thread. Heh.


----------



## Zhysick

trem licking said:


> Man i wish ESP would release some shit worthy of derailing a BBQ pizza thread. Heh.



Isn't the Black Metal EX enough? Because that's fucking awesome


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

Zhysick said:


> Isn't the Black Metal EX enough? Because that's fucking awesome


 It gives me Wayne Static vibes


----------



## Zado

Zhysick said:


> I tried to kill the pineapple pizza with a few hundred Celsius degrees on my oven but turned out crispy and delicious.
> 
> Will keep on trying, I promise!



Damn I hate you


----------



## adriangrizzly




----------



## Zhysick

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> It gives me Wayne Static vibes



And that's amazing too!



Zado said:


> Damn I hate you



This might be the start of a new love


----------



## Seabeast2000

Clearly ESP needs a Pizza/Demo trailer tour for 2021.


----------



## RobDobble6S7

Takeaways from this thread: Mmm, barbecue; yes, pineapple on pizza IS a crime and you SHOULD be punished for it; and ESP needs white-on-white because why? Nobody knows!


----------



## Zado

Zhysick said:


> This might be the start of a new love


Who knows, but you bet I wont be inviting you to any romantic dinner if you eat that shit


----------



## soul_lip_mike

valkyrie said:


> Lets get back to how glorious this is:



Another ESP ruined with those awful BKP blemish pickup covers. Argh

My Custom Jackson I bought from Misha has them and I hate them so much. Really considering replacing with the carbon fiber ones but part of me thinks I should leaveit how it was built for Misha originally.


----------



## Zhysick

Zado said:


> Who knows, but you bet I wont be inviting you to any romantic dinner if you eat that shit



Isn't arrabbiata the recommended dish for a romantic dinner? Garlic is perfect for the kisses and the hot chilli is perfect for... well, for that


----------



## Zado

Zhysick said:


> Isn't arrabbiata the recommended dish for a romantic dinner? Garlic is perfect for the kisses and the hot chilli is perfect for... well, for that


This deserves to be the 666th message of this topic 
Also, anything is fine except weird pizzas AND that pasta with meatballs which apparently is something believed to be a typical italian dish but here it just doesnt exist


----------



## xzacx

1. Cheese pizza 
2. Pineapple and Jalepeno 
3. Some variety of veggies, although I’d prolly never order it over the first two
4. Everything else


----------



## Zhysick

Zado said:


> This deserves to be the 666th message of this topic
> Also, anything is fine except weird pizzas AND that pasta with meatballs which apparently is something believed to be a typical italian dish but here it just doesnt exist



But spagetti with meatballs is nice, even if it's not a real italian dish, is fucking nice. Maybe better than pineapple pizza.

Just kidding. Pineapple pizza is the best.

PS: Didn't realized my post was number 666... I feel honored!!!! and metal as fuck!


----------



## HaMMerHeD

I dig this Arctic Winter Arrow.


----------



## Zado

Zhysick said:


> But spagetti with meatballs is nice, even if it's not a real italian dish, is fucking nice. Maybe better than pineapple pizza.
> 
> Just kidding. Pineapple pizza is the best.
> 
> PS: Didn't realized my post was number 666... I feel honored!!!! and metal as fuck!



Ragu beats the shiz outta meatballs AND weirdo pizzas 

Btw apparently ESP has a new acoustic model for 2021


----------



## possumkiller

valkyrie said:


> Lets get back to how glorious this is:


Gloriously disgusting and hideous? Wtf is even going on here? Lets get a flamed top that is also rotting. We will dye only parts of the rotten top. We will dye those parts pink and blue with no particular pattern or reason. Let's put on some pickups that look like DeVries hacked at them with a fucking dull machete. Fugly ass pickup covers. Wtf is going on with the polepieces? That could potentially be an awesome guitar if the pickup covers were removed and it was painted over in a sensible color. They didn't even stay inside the lines when dying the top. That's how many fucks they gave. Seriously, this is something to be laughed at like the idiotic things gibson releases.


----------



## RobDobble6S7

Idk I think the finish looks cool. I like how the bits with color look like a supernova, but I would have changed the...well...everything else.


----------



## Mathemagician

HaMMerHeD said:


> I dig this Arctic Winter Arrow.



The sheer volume of Children of Bodom riffs that this thing demands to be played on it is nuts. Just D-standard and goooooooo.


----------



## Shoeless_jose

Mathemagician said:


> The sheer volume of Children of Bodom riffs that this thing demands to be played on it is nuts. Just D-standard and goooooooo.




The Mike Schleibaum arrow looks waaaaaaaay more bad ass IMHO


----------



## possumkiller

I'm just sad they have replaced the other better v shapes with the arrow.


----------



## JimF

Dineley said:


> The Mike Schleibaum arrow looks waaaaaaaay more bad ass IMHO


I went from not giving the Arrow a second look, to adding this model to my wishlist!


----------



## Emperor Guillotine

So, where is the "gabagool" guitar at? Bring it over here!


----------



## Shoeless_jose

Emperor Guillotine said:


> So, where is the "gabagool" guitar at? Bring it over here!



Don't tempt me I've been contemplating it!


----------



## Emperor Guillotine

Dineley said:


> Don't tempt me I've been contemplating it!
> View attachment 88003


----------



## I play music

As excited as I am or was about the new LTD models ... I just saw that in Germany the 2020 ESP LTD AW-7B Baritone BK costs as much as the made in Japan Ibanez RGR5227MFX-TFG with stainless steel frets, Bareknuckle PUs, special fluorescent green finish ...damn ESP you better be good if that's the price point you want to compete against..


----------



## guitar_player4_2_0

So I’ve noticed the Purple SC607B is out of stock most places and all the others are in stock. Does anyone know if they’re doing a new color this year? I’ve really been wanting to pick one of these up but I’m on the fence about the purple.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

guitar_player4_2_0 said:


> So I’ve noticed the Purple SC607B is out of stock most places and all the others are in stock. Does anyone know if they’re doing a new color this year? I’ve really been wanting to pick one of these up but I’m on the fence about the purple.


Haven't seen any mention of another SC yet. We still have a couple of weeks before they show off the rest of the lineup though.


----------



## Mathemagician

The last email said like mid January. Somewhere around the 11-15. (It’s in the body). So there’s likely to be a good amount saved for the “week of NAMM” reveal. Regardless of the convention not happening.


----------



## Apex1rg7x

I play music said:


> As excited as I am or was about the new LTD models ... I just saw that in Germany the 2020 ESP LTD AW-7B Baritone BK costs as much as the made in Japan Ibanez RGR5227MFX-TFG with stainless steel frets, Bareknuckle PUs, special fluorescent green finish ...damn ESP you better be good if that's the price point you want to compete against..


The AW-7B does have stainless frets and the Dimarzio Deactivators that they use. I wouldn't mind checking one out.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

KnightBrolaire said:


> Haven't seen any mention of another SC yet. We still have a couple of weeks before they show off the rest of the lineup though.



Maybe he fell off the edge of the earth.


----------



## Musiscience

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> Maybe he fell off the edge of the earth.



Do you mean there's a hole in the earth, like a CD, and you can fall through it? Daaaaaaamn


----------



## Celtic Frosted Flakes

Musiscience said:


> Do you mean there's a hole in the earth, like a CD, and you can fall through it? Daaaaaaamn



SC believes the earth is flat.


----------



## Musiscience

Celtic Frosted Flakes said:


> SC believes the earth is flat.



I know, it was a word play with their song "Hole in the earth", that he mentioned SC falling off the edge and the fact that a CD is... flat. lol 

Note to self: never explain a joke again.


----------



## Celtic Frosted Flakes

Haha, my bad.


----------



## c7spheres

Maybe if we all stand together as one voice, ESP will finally make the SC models without the middle pickup. Get rid of that damn middle pickup and if there's any inlays get rid of those too. 
- I have less respect for SC because of the middle pickup than because of his flat earth beliefs. There's a 0.00000001% chance we all live in a hologram world and are being lied to about the Earths shape, but there's a 100% chance that guitar sucks and won't be purchased specifically because of that pickup. : )


----------



## I play music

c7spheres said:


> Maybe if we all stand together as one voice, ESP will finally make the SC models without the middle pickup. Get rid of that damn middle pickup and if there's any inlays get rid of those too.
> - I have less respect for SC because of the middle pickup than because of his flat earth beliefs. There's a 0.00000001% chance we all live in a hologram world and are being lied to about the Earths shape, but there's a 100% chance that guitar sucks and won't be purchased specifically because of that pickup. : )


If you want a single hum baritone 7 string with no inlays just get the M7BHT in white or black?


----------



## I play music

Apex1rg7x said:


> The AW-7B does have stainless frets and the Dimarzio Deactivators that they use. I wouldn't mind checking one out.


Me too.
But for example the Josh Middelton sig also has a top, roasted maple neck and more expensive Fishmans so ... I had thought what if it is even more expensive. Not that I care where it's made but I have yet to see an made in Indonesia guitar that is better made than Ibanez Prestige. So I have my doubts
Edit: But for sure I'll give them a try and give them their chance


----------



## Zhysick

I play music said:


> Me too.
> But for example the Josh Middelton sig also has a top, roasted maple neck and more expensive Fishmans so ... I had thought what if it is even more expensive. Not that I care where it's made but I have yet to see an made in Indonesia guitar that is better made than Ibanez Prestige. So I have my doubts



Well, I have seen plenty and actually I own two... My experience with Ibanez Prestige is not good by any means, except for the RG3120, that played awesome despite sounding a bit... weak, but at least the playability was really amazing and I didn't even like the neck profile.


----------



## gunshow86de

c7spheres said:


> Maybe if we all stand together as one voice, ESP will finally make the SC models without the middle pickup. Get rid of that damn middle pickup and if there's any inlays get rid of those too.
> - I have less respect for SC because of the middle pickup than because of his flat earth beliefs. There's a 0.00000001% chance we all live in a hologram world and are being lied to about the Earths shape, but there's a 100% chance that guitar sucks and won't be purchased specifically because of that pickup. : )



They made a pretty sizeable run of these just last year.


----------



## I play music

Zhysick said:


> Well, I have seen plenty and actually I own two... My experience with Ibanez Prestige is not good by any means, except for the RG3120, that played awesome despite sounding a bit... weak, but at least the playability was really amazing and I didn't even like the neck profile.


I'm starting to feel that with Ibanez a very important point is where you buy them from. Some stores just seem to sell as they get it and others send back all Prestiges that are not almost perfect. Because I hear such mixed things.


----------



## Zhysick

gunshow86de said:


> They made a pretty sizeable run of these just last year.



This one is amazing but is one tone knob away of being the ESP version of COW's Jackson 




I play music said:


> I'm starting to feel that with Ibanez a very important point is where you buy them from. Some stores just seem to sell as they get it and others send back all Prestiges that are not almost perfect. Because I hear such mixed things.



If that's the case... where is the Prestige part if the 'selection' (call it QC if wanted) is done outside the factory? I was very very very dissapointed with my last prestige which was an RGD2127Z. The broken case was not their fault, but the "prestige fret edge treatment" was a joke. Premiums were better finished. If the shops must send back the ones that are not good enough then Ibanez is not doing their job


----------



## BigViolin

c7spheres said:


> - I have less respect for SC because of the middle pickup than because of his flat earth beliefs. : )



This just had to be quoted. So good.


----------



## StevenC

c7spheres said:


> There's a 0.00000001% chance we all live in a hologram world and are being lied to about the Earths shape


There is a 0% chance we're being lied to about the Earth's shape.


----------



## Seabeast2000

Zhysick said:


> This one is amazing but is one tone knob away of being the ESP version of COW'
> 
> 
> Zhysick said:
> 
> 
> 
> This one is amazing but is one tone knob away of being the ESP version of COW's Jackson
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shit is getting real with 2 tone knobs and single pickup.
Click to expand...


----------



## I play music

Zhysick said:


> This one is amazing but is one tone knob away of being the ESP version of COW's Jackson
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If that's the case... where is the Prestige part if the 'selection' (call it QC if wanted) is done outside the factory? I was very very very dissapointed with my last prestige which was an RGD2127Z. The broken case was not their fault, but the "prestige fret edge treatment" was a joke. Premiums were better finished. If the shops must send back the ones that are not good enough then Ibanez is not doing their job


Oh the days when Jackson was awesome...

Honestly I have no idea. The prestiges that I have played (I have one, my friend 3) all have perfect fretwork ... or had because they are NS and maybe a bit worn. 
But here on this forum I have seen complaining about their fretwork already 2 or 3 times so dunno...


----------



## c7spheres

gunshow86de said:


> They made a pretty sizeable run of these just last year.



Whoa! That's pretty cool, but now it needs a Floyd Rose, bolt neck, knobs outta the way and different colors. jk


----------



## Zhysick

c7spheres said:


> Whoa! That's pretty cool, but now it needs a Floyd Rose, bolt neck, knobs outta the way and different colors. jk



And a Wizard HP neck


----------



## Mathemagician

possumkiller said:


> I'm just sad they have replaced the other better v shapes with the arrow.



In this economy I’m just glad they’re still making V’s at all. The SV shape was fantastic but I guess no one bought it. At least they seem to be finding some success with this newer shape. Everybody deserves one good V.


----------



## possumkiller

Mathemagician said:


> In this economy I’m just glad they’re still making V’s at all. The SV shape was fantastic but I guess no one bought it. At least they seem to be finding some success with this newer shape. Everybody deserves one good V.


Are you kidding? Plenty of people bought it. Tons and tons of Alexi fan boys. People who want an RR with slightly bigger body. They just didn't want to risk it anymore.


----------



## Zhysick

You are wrong.

The real and true ESP V is this one. And this is the only true color. 






You are welcome.


----------



## Masoo2

Zhysick said:


> You are wrong.
> 
> The real and true ESP V is this one. And this is the only true color.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are welcome.


Wrong.






This is the one guitar hill I'm willing to die on. *There is no single V better than the ESP NV. *

(Please ESP...please give us some LTD and E-II NVs...it's not like there's a copyright risk for it like the SV and MX...)


----------



## possumkiller

Masoo2 said:


> Wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the one guitar hill I'm willing to die on. *There is no single V better than the ESP NV. *
> 
> (Please ESP...please give us some LTD and E-II NVs...it's not like there's a copyright risk for it like the SV and MX...)


A white Jed Simon model would be awesome.


----------



## manu80

there was a NV on sale on a french forum this week ...900 euros, satin white a bit worn...I was tempted...still the inlay are just what's blocking me, even if I know what they are and don't see immediately what people are seeing and thinking (...) some other inlay could be more neutral...
And by the way, why did they keep them ? to make a sub Kerry king guitar ?


----------



## Mathemagician

possumkiller said:


> Are you kidding? Plenty of people bought it. Tons and tons of Alexi fan boys. People who want an RR with slightly bigger body. They just didn't want to risk it anymore.





Zhysick said:


> You are wrong.
> 
> The real and true ESP V is this one. And this is the only true color.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are welcome.





Masoo2 said:


> Wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the one guitar hill I'm willing to die on. *There is no single V better than the ESP NV. *
> 
> (Please ESP...please give us some LTD and E-II NVs...it's not like there's a copyright risk for it like the SV and MX...)






No this is the way.


----------



## Zado

^this


----------



## cardinal

Hey can you guys get back on topic. What about the bbq and pineapple?


----------



## Zhysick

Masoo2 said:


> Wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the one guitar hill I'm willing to die on. *There is no single V better than the ESP NV. *
> 
> (Please ESP...please give us some LTD and E-II NVs...it's not like there's a copyright risk for it like the SV and MX...)



Pink always win and Kai Hansen is a fucking GOD so... no. I am not wrong and you know it. 



Mathemagician said:


> View attachment 88085
> 
> 
> No this is the way.



You have Gibson for that. I expect something different from a different brand I guess... ? (don't say now the ESP RV is just a Jackson RR )

Anyway, if that's the case, I prefer the Jackson Y2KV because sharkin inlays > dots or blocks or trapezoids


----------



## KnightBrolaire

All of you are fucking high, the Arrow is their best take on a V shape by far. It's aggressive and super sleek. Leave the more pedestrian V shapes to Gibson and Jackson.


----------



## Seabeast2000

*Reads book on group consensus...

Do you guys like pointy or safety V's? I like pointy ones myself.


----------



## gunshow86de

Man, you guys are way off...


----------



## setsuna7

gunshow86de said:


> Man, you guys are way off...


Amen to this brother... hopefully they'll announce this as his Sig, both CS and LTDs!!


----------



## KnightBrolaire

gunshow86de said:


> Man, you guys are way off...


Easily the worst take on the RR shape. It loses all the sleek/aerodynamic looking qualities of the original or the Arrow and plus it has the godawful cockstock. It's like a disgusting chimera of an RR with gibson V rounded edges.


----------



## gunshow86de

KnightBrolaire said:


> Easily the worst take on the RR shape. It loses all the sleek/aerodynamic looking qualities of the original or the Arrow and plus it has the godawful cockstock. It's like a disgusting chimera of an RR with gibson V rounded edges.


----------



## MFB

No no, he's right, with rounded edges it's no longer a menacing RR or Arrow type offset V; but it's also asymeterical and now looks like a malformed Gibson/Epi V. So instead of being good at one thing, it's bad at both, and therefore it will never adorn my rack of guitars.


----------



## gunshow86de

MFB said:


> No no, he's right, with rounded edges it's no longer a menacing RR or Arrow type offset V; but it's also asymeterical and now looks like a malformed Gibson/Epi V. So instead of being good at one thing, it's bad at both, and therefore it will never adorn my rack of guitars.


----------



## Bodes

Pointy Vs are better.
Arrow Vs are betterer.
Double arrow Vs is best.

Rounded RR is ok.
Cockstock on rounded RR is not ok.
Although can't think which of ESP's headstocks (or any headstock known to man) would actually look good on the rounded RR. The inline 6 certainly wouldn't. But hats off to him for wanting something different.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

gunshow86de said:


> Man, you guys are way off...



This is like "The Homer" if someone just went through a generic ESP fan thread and grabbed a spec from every other post. 

It reminds me of hitting the "random" button in a character editor in a wrestling game. 

This is the "project management triangle" in guitar form. Only two aspects at time go together and never all of them. 

It's sort of like they couldn't decide if they wanted something funny or something serious.


----------



## gunshow86de




----------



## Seabeast2000

MaxOfMetal said:


> This is like "The Homer" if someone just went through a generic ESP fan thread and grabbed a spec from every other post.
> 
> It reminds me of hitting the "random" button in a character editor in a wrestling game.
> 
> This is the "project management triangle" in guitar form. Only two aspects at time go together and never all of them.
> 
> It's sort of like they couldn't decide if they wanted something funny or something serious.



The Make Or Buy didn't go well. The could have just tweaked a Moderne.


----------



## KnightBrolaire




----------



## gunshow86de

KnightBrolaire said:


>


----------



## Kaura

gunshow86de said:


>



Exactly my reaction when I can't save that gif for some weird reason.


----------



## gunch

I think the gumby rhoads is cool


----------



## Mathemagician

gunshow86de said:


> Man, you guys are way off...



The ONLY change I would make is reverse the cockstock so it points up. A tad more aggressive and done.


----------



## Crash Dandicoot

My e-Zuka 7th SuperNova has the rounded RR shape with a Forest headstock. Looks alright, though I love the cockstock and think it looks fine on Brian's customs.


----------



## feraledge

I think the cockstock is the best headstock for that design. 
TBDM is always a bit over the top and Brian's got a way of doing it that's unique. I think that's cooler than just trying to get a different finish on an existing model. But I'm not shit talking that either, because it's exactly what I would do.


----------



## Dan_Vacant

I think the banana stock would work on the round RR shape.


----------



## Shoeless_jose

gunshow86de said:


>




Hahahahaha the Charlie Murphy clip.

Also i was working security for BLS show that Black Daliah Murder opened for and was trying to figure out what the guitar was he was playing but was tough to tell from side stage haha. Love that V or any V with cock stock would be pretty slick but I think I may pull trigger on the Darkest Hour arrow though as I have always loved the RR and this one is just super slick. Just too bad its poly finish that white aging as nitro would be fantastic


----------



## setsuna7

Dan_Vacant said:


> I think the banana stock would work on the round RR shape.


Euge Valovirta have one custom built for him..
but a regular V at that
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>


----------



## Flappydoodle

KnightBrolaire said:


> Easily the worst take on the RR shape. It loses all the sleek/aerodynamic looking qualities of the original or the Arrow and plus it has the godawful cockstock. It's like a disgusting chimera of an RR with gibson V rounded edges.



The only godawful thing is the volume knob location. Why do they put it so close and right below the bridge pickup??!


----------



## guitar_player4_2_0

Flappydoodle said:


> The only godawful thing is the volume knob location. Why do they put it so close and right below the bridge pickup??!



I second this! I don’t think a “metal” guitar should have any knobs or switches near the bridge pickup. I always remove or move any knobs or switches in that area.

Also, I really dig the cockstock V, although I’m not a huge fan of asymmetrical horns.


----------



## epsylon

KnightBrolaire said:


> Easily the worst take on the RR shape. It loses all the sleek/aerodynamic looking qualities of the original or the Arrow and plus it has the godawful cockstock. It's like a disgusting chimera of an RR with gibson V rounded edges.


which is exactly why SSO loves it


----------



## Mathemagician

Volume near bridge pickup = easy access for volume swell via pinky.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Mathemagician said:


> Volume near bridge pickup = easy access for volume swell via pinky.


exactly. what the hell are people doing to bump the vol knob there? Perpetually windmilling like Pete Townshend with epilepsy?


----------



## Rotatous

guitar_player4_2_0 said:


> I second this! I don’t think a “metal” guitar should have any knobs or switches near the bridge pickup. I always remove or move any knobs or switches in that area.
> 
> Also, I really dig the cockstock V, although I’m not a huge fan of asymmetrical horns.


I can never relate to this complaint. I prefer my volume knob in somewhat close proximity to the bridge/bridge pickup for quick volume roll offs and changes while playing. Especially between songs live. Never have any issues hitting it with my hand.


----------



## Seabeast2000

*consults book on vol knob position conflict resolution

Well middle pickups somehow interfere with picking so who knows wtf is going on?


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Seabeast2000 said:


> *consults book on vol knob position conflict resolution
> 
> Well middle pickups somehow interfere with picking so who knows wtf is going on?


nah that one is a legit complaint ime. If the middle pickup is too high then the pick can catch on it. I used to have that problem a lot before I started using jazz iii sized picks. Smaller picks really mitigated that issue for me since there is significantly less material to get dragged under the string. Choking up on bigger picks works too ime.


----------



## gnoll

Volume knobs can fuck right off!! Damn things!!


----------



## Seabeast2000

KnightBrolaire said:


> nah that one is a legit complaint ime. If the middle pickup is too high then the pick can catch on it. I used to have that problem a lot before I started using jazz iii sized picks. Smaller picks really mitigated that issue for me since there is significantly less material to get dragged under the string. Choking up on bigger picks works too ime.




For some reason, I just assumed nobody picked with a lot of material under the string plane. So choke or small pick always. But....


----------



## Zhysick

Mathemagician said:


> Volume near bridge pickup = easy access for volume swell via pinky.



That's what volume pedals are for  fuck off pots near the bridge pickup


----------



## gunshow86de

The volume knob and middle pickup complaints, combined with the insane heavy string gauges people on here say they use makes me think most of the forum is just Kevin Frasard.


----------



## Flappydoodle

How many volume swells do you think Brian is doing per show?

I’m going to guess at exactly zero.

Do they even have any clean sections in any of their live setlist? I can’t think of any. 

It’s also a single pickup guitar. So you don’t even need ANY controls. Maybe a toggle switch for on/off. But I don’t think he even changes guitar during a set, and you could easily do this with a pedal if you need to mute the rig. 

And you don’t need to be doing windmills, no. That position can easily be nudged by your pinky finger if you’re picking hard.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Dude ordered the guitar as is. 

If folks ain't down with that, ESP will build anyone one without.


----------



## feraledge

Flappydoodle said:


> How many volume swells do you think Brian is doing per show?
> 
> I’m going to guess at exactly zero.
> 
> Do they even have any clean sections in any of their live setlist? I can’t think of any.
> 
> It’s also a single pickup guitar. So you don’t even need ANY controls. Maybe a toggle switch for on/off. But I don’t think he even changes guitar during a set, and you could easily do this with a pedal if you need to mute the rig.
> 
> And you don’t need to be doing windmills, no. That position can easily be nudged by your pinky finger if you’re picking hard.


This is a wonderfully flippant example of telling someone that their opinion and likes are irrelevant to what you think their custom guitar should be.


----------



## Jonathan20022

I've observed quite a few players, many of them condensed into NAMM Weekends.

Most people don't have proper technique, nor care about economy of motion in the first place. If you're knocking your volume knob, you should re-evaluate your playing and spend some time on a Strat 

It's the equivalent of playing a video game and physically leaning while turning in Mario Kart, it ain't doing you any good


----------



## angl2k

So after the tone control now the volume control is out of fashion?

In 2021 electric guitars will ship without pickups and input jacks?


----------



## _MonSTeR_

Jonathan20022 said:


> I've observed quite a few players, many of them condensed into NAMM Weekends.
> 
> Most people don't have proper technique, nor care about economy of motion in the first place. If you're knocking your volume knob, you should re-evaluate your playing and spend some time on a Strat
> 
> It's the equivalent of playing a video game and physically leaning while turning in Mario Kart, it ain't doing you any good



This.

If Eric Johnson can play his vintage Strat with its volume knob where it’s always been without feeling the need to mod the guitar, it should be a hint that technique can overcome control placement


----------



## JimF

If you can't play it on a lute then you shouldn't try to play it on a guitar


----------



## Kaura

angl2k said:


> So after the tone control now the volume control is out of fashion?
> 
> In 2021 electric guitars will ship without pickups and input jacks?



About damn time. Someone should invent strings that connect straight to your phone via Bluetooth. Also mobile amp plugins.


----------



## _MonSTeR_

_MonSTeR_ said:


> This.
> 
> If Eric Johnson can play his vintage Strat with its volume knob where it’s always been without feeling the need to mod the guitar, it should be a hint that technique can overcome control placement



although at the narcissistic risk of quoting myself... Steve Vai has had the volume control on his signature model moved further away from the bridge not once, but TWICE!!! 

So maybe those saying we can get rid of volume controls altogether have a good point


----------



## Zhysick

So you are telling me that I have to play in a certain way yes or yes if I hit the control knob because that's lack of technique? 

Alright...

Tell that to Keith Merrow, Jeff Loomis, Chris Broderick...

I mean: I'm not gonna tell anybody how HIS signature guitar must have the controls placed but don't fuck me with the technique shit... that's bullshit.


----------



## Edika

_MonSTeR_ said:


> although at the narcissistic risk of quoting myself... Steve Vai has had the volume control on his signature model moved further away from the bridge not once, but TWICE!!!
> 
> So maybe those saying we can get rid of volume controls altogether have a good point



Truth be told though, Vai has alien like long fingers so I'm guessing he can still reach it if he wants to do a swell and not use a pedal


----------



## possumkiller

Zhysick said:


> I'm not gonna tell anybody how HIS signature guitar must have the controls placed.


What about her?


----------



## Seabeast2000

possumkiller said:


> What about her?


----------



## BenSolace

Zhysick said:


> So you are telling me that I have to play in a certain way yes or yes if I hit the control knob because that's lack of technique?
> 
> Alright...
> 
> Tell that to Keith Merrow, Jeff Loomis, Chris Broderick...
> 
> I mean: I'm not gonna tell anybody how HIS signature guitar must have the controls placed but don't fuck me with the technique shit... that's bullshit.


100%.

I have now removed all knobs from my guitars and just have one global latching button killswitch and pickup selector (if the guitar has a neck pickup). Volume swells = pedal (if I ever did them). Dirty/clean sounds = different channel/patch. Got so sick of constantly testing the volume knob to see if it was on full while playing live.


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

Am I the only one with 50 thousand controls and switches on their guitar? I like a shit ton of functionality and all of my guitars have 5 or more knobs/switches


----------



## c7spheres

By 2050 nobody will play "real" guitars. It will all be apps and they will be 99% just like the real thing, and people will talk about guitars like they've actually played on one before, just like modellers


----------



## Musiscience

c7spheres said:


> By 2050 nobody will play "real" guitars. It will all be apps and they will be 99% just like the real thing, and people will talk about guitars like they've actually played on one before, just like modellers



This will possibly be the case. About modelers, I currently really love mine and was a "tube or it's trash" guy for longest time, so I don't buy into the "people who like them never played a real amp before" argument. The current offerings really are great, and extremely practical. If the digital guitars of the future are as great or better than current modelers, why not.


----------



## c7spheres

Musiscience said:


> This will possibly be the case. About modelers, I currently really love mine and was a "tube or it's trash" guy for longest time, so I don't buy into the "people who like them never played a real amp before" argument. The current offerings really are great, and extremely practical. If the digital guitars of the future are as great or better than current modelers, why not.


 It was just a joke, but they already have vst guitars and stuff like that. I just would rather play a real guitar than a virtual guitar personally. : )


----------



## guitar_player4_2_0

Obviously it’s a personal preference/technique thing, but me personally if the knob is too close I hit it with my fingers. When I was first starting out on a Strat I’d frequently turn the volume to zero inadvertently by hitting it with my pinky while palm muting. Strats are the worst offenders for this IMO, but if you look at the sigs for Jim Root, Mick Thomson, Munky, Dino, etc. many rock/metal players move the knob. Is it a universal thing, no. Is it a common complaint, absolutely. Perhaps I could re-learn my technique, but after 20 years it pretty much is what it is. I’m not saying “This dude should have got his custom guitar built to my specs, what a tool”, but I am saying that’s a deciding factor for me while considering a purchase.


----------



## Seabeast2000

c7spheres said:


> By 2050 nobody will play "real" guitars. It will all be apps and they will be 99% just like the real thing, and people will talk about guitars like they've actually played on one before, just like modellers


In between your Amazon productivity periods on the Moon.


----------



## gunshow86de

Seabeast2000 said:


> In between your Amazon productivity periods on the Moon.



It's cute that you think they'll let us have breaks.


----------



## gnoll

Seems when it comes to musical instruments, if some people have a problem that some other people don't have it's => bad technique!

It's the same thing with drums and drum forums. Got a problem? Ah well you obviously have bad technique because I don't have that problem. Or famous person X doesn't have that problem.

I mean like, eh, whatever. Maybe bad technique, maybe people are different and work differently and play instruments differently. I'm fine with having bad technique though so ya, whatevs.


----------



## Seabeast2000

Dbl


----------



## Musiscience

c7spheres said:


> It was just a joke, but they already have vst guitars and stuff like that. I just would rather play a real guitar than a virtual guitar personally. : )


Let's not kid ourselves, so do I. 

But I'll keep an open mind if I someday stumble upon an all in one strat, tele, les paul, shredder, jazzbox digital guitar


----------



## Jonathan20022

gnoll said:


> Seems when it comes to musical instruments, if some people have a problem that some other people don't have it's => bad technique!
> 
> It's the same thing with drums and drum forums. Got a problem? Ah well you obviously have bad technique because I don't have that problem. Or famous person X doesn't have that problem.
> 
> I mean like, eh, whatever. Maybe bad technique, maybe people are different and work differently and play instruments differently. I'm fine with having bad technique though so ya, whatevs.



I only bring it up because people are just critiquing an Artist's own custom guitars. If it bothered him that his custom ESP's had the volume knob so close, it wouldn't be there. But it's definitely weird to see people nit pick a custom shop guitar designed for someone. If you want that design but want to move the volume knob, I'm sure they'll build one for you 

And on a different note, it might be harsh but yeah players tend to accommodate their bad habits instead of correcting them. Moving the volume knob is definitely a solution to lowering your volume, but if it's only happening because you want to pick with an open claw then that's.. fixable? Via corrected technique?

If you want to pick harder to give your playing a more aggressive sound, the exaggerated hand movements aren't contributing to it.


----------



## Zhysick

Jonathan20022 said:


> And on a different note, it might be harsh but yeah players tend to accommodate their bad habits instead of correcting them. Moving the volume knob is definitely a solution to lowering your volume, but if it's only happening because you want to pick with an open claw then that's.. fixable? Via corrected technique?



So the "correct technique" is playing with your right hand like a fist? Because I play with a relaxed hand and that's why my pinky touches the volume knob if it is too close to the bridge and as far as I know playing with a relaxed right hand is a lot better than with a tense/tight grip so... if my relaxed position is with the hand "open" then... do I have a bad technique or in this case is just deformed hand? 

As said... bullshit.

Bad technique is gripping the neck so hard that you stress your arm in 30 minutes playing, or when you cannot do a sweep because your right hand does not coordinate with left hand (this happens to me with sweeps, I am totally unable to properly sweep), or when you bend out of tune... but hitting the volume knob on a strat is not bad technique. Definitely not.


----------



## Jonathan20022

Zhysick said:


> So the "correct technique" is playing with your right hand like a fist? Because I play with a relaxed hand and that's why my pinky touches the volume knob if it is too close to the bridge and as far as I know playing with a relaxed right hand is a lot better than with a tense/tight grip so... if my relaxed position is with the hand "open" then... do I have a bad technique or in this case is just deformed hand?
> 
> As said... bullshit.
> 
> Bad technique is gripping the neck so hard that you stress your arm in 30 minutes playing, or when you cannot do a sweep because your right hand does not coordinate with left hand (this happens to me with sweeps, I am totally unable to properly sweep), or when you bend out of tune... but hitting the volume knob on a strat is not bad technique. Definitely not.



You seem to be misunderstanding my comment,

"Corrected Technique" means that you're correcting a bad habit, it's not implying that there is a "Correct" way of playing guitar. 

You're absolutely right about being tense with a closed fist being improper technique as well, as being relaxed is what generally improves your hand movements. Not sure where you're getting that I suggested closed fist from though  ? 

If you splay your fingers so far in open claw that you constantly lower your volume, you are absolutely doing something wrong. Bad technique can display itself in quite a few ways, it's not always comical like thumb/pinky pick grip


----------



## Zhysick

Jonathan20022 said:


> You seem to be misunderstanding my comment,
> 
> "Corrected Technique" means that you're correcting a bad habit, it's not implying that there is a "Correct" way of playing guitar.
> 
> You're absolutely right about being tense with a closed fist being improper technique as well, as being relaxed is what generally improves your hand movements. Not sure where you're getting that I suggested closed fist from though  ?
> 
> If you splay your fingers so far in open claw that you constantly lower your volume, you are absolutely doing something wrong. Bad technique can display itself in quite a few ways, it's not always comical like thumb/pinky pick grip




Obviously playing with the fingers wide open is not good as that is stressful for the hand also, but at least I touch the volume knob in a strat even with the hand "closed" in a relaxed position and I normally play with the fingers relatively splayed but relaxed, you know, like when tipping right now... 

You didn't say fist, I said fist because in a "relaxed claw postion" I still touch the volume knob in a strat (and I say this again, in a strat, in a Les Paul of course not!) so I went to the extrem of closing the hand to a fist (like some people do...).

I mean, I don't think it's a bad habit if you accidentally touch the volume knob with your hand while playing in a "appropriate" relaxed position because the knob is so fucking close... for fucks sake, in a strat the volume knob is almost touching the bridge pickup  and if it is not touching is just because there is the mounting screw of the pickup in the way... is just ridiculous! 







I don't care if Eric Johnson or Yngwie Malmsteen can shred the shit out of a strat without turning the volume down, that's a desing flaw  (<- that's a joke)


----------



## soul_lip_mike

TheBolivianSniper said:


> Am I the only one with 50 thousand controls and switches on their guitar? I like a shit ton of functionality and all of my guitars have 5 or more knobs/switches



Any time I see a picture of one of thoe BC Rich 10 string guitars with the shitload of knobs I can't even fathom the learning curve to use them all effectively.


----------



## soul_lip_mike

Zhysick said:


> So the "correct technique" is playing with your right hand like a fist? Because I play with a relaxed hand and that's why my pinky touches the volume knob if it is too close to the bridge and as far as I know playing with a relaxed right hand is a lot better than with a tense/tight grip so... if my relaxed position is with the hand "open" then... do I have a bad technique or in this case is just deformed hand?
> 
> As said... bullshit.
> 
> Bad technique is gripping the neck so hard that you stress your arm in 30 minutes playing, or when you cannot do a sweep because your right hand does not coordinate with left hand (this happens to me with sweeps, I am totally unable to properly sweep), or when you bend out of tune... but hitting the volume knob on a strat is not bad technique. Definitely not.





Jonathan20022 said:


> You seem to be misunderstanding my comment,
> 
> "Corrected Technique" means that you're correcting a bad habit, it's not implying that there is a "Correct" way of playing guitar.
> 
> You're absolutely right about being tense with a closed fist being improper technique as well, as being relaxed is what generally improves your hand movements. Not sure where you're getting that I suggested closed fist from though  ?
> 
> If you splay your fingers so far in open claw that you constantly lower your volume, you are absolutely doing something wrong. Bad technique can display itself in quite a few ways, it's not always comical like thumb/pinky pick grip



Troy Grady's "cracking the code" videos on picking technique and how to hold the pick have recently blown my mind. I have always held my pick in the "prints" of my thumb and my index finger. I'm trying to undo that habit and use my wrist as the pivot point now. Super hard to undo the years of habit.


----------



## guitar_player4_2_0

Sorry guys, I wasn’t trying to turn this page into a volume knob debate lol. I’m just waiting to see if the SC607 gets a new color next year. At least the knobs are in a decent spot on those.


----------



## Zhysick

soul_lip_mike said:


> Troy Grady's "cracking the code" videos on picking technique and how to hold the pick have recently blown my mind. I have always held my pick in the "prints" of my thumb and my index finger. I'm trying to undo that habit and use my wrist as the pivot point now. Super hard to undo the years of habit.



I actually hold the pick similar if not he same to how Eric Johnson does. I had lots of problems like 20 years ago when coming from the classical guitar to the electric and I saw an article on a magazine with a diagram showing how he holds the pick and that changed everything for me.



guitar_player4_2_0 said:


> Sorry guys, I wasn’t trying to turn this page into a volume knob debate lol. I’m just waiting to see if the SC607 gets a new color next year. At least the knobs are in a decent spot on those.



This is a discussion forum and we are discussing so... this is definitely the right technique  we have a few weeks until the last reveal in January


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

soul_lip_mike said:


> Any time I see a picture of one of thoe BC Rich 10 string guitars with the shitload of knobs I can't even fathom the learning curve to use them all effectively.



It's really been an interesting experience getting used to my 2 mockingbirds since the one really does any clean or crunch tone, and knowing when and what is split, at what volume, with which varitone setting, has been difficult but also fun. The other is a lot more straight forward with the treble boost/bass cut being obvious and to taste and the gain boost being the hardest part to utilize since it's so powerful. Of course, the independent splits on both is what complicates a lot of it and the phase on the first I usually just leave on since I'm not a middle position fan. Floyds are floyds and the varitone is useful but niche so I only use it when I'm leaving it on, it's a huge volume suck. Both have a master tone so that's easy. 

And of course there's my guitar with a sustainiac but that's gonna lose its tone control for a killswitch soon and that means it's just a giant sustainer and riff machine.


----------



## Mathemagician

I’m so glad I made an offhand comment about volume swells like my hero Kurt Hammer from that band that sings Enter Sandman. 

As for BCR’s with crazy switches I can see how it’s be fun to mess with all that on a single guitar but it’s def not my speed. I’m glad someone it out there doing it though, very unique sounds out of some of them.


----------



## Seabeast2000

gunshow86de said:


> It's cute that you think they'll let us have breaks.



Breaks means no extra Enjoyment Fluid released from the IV implant. Options.


----------



## feraledge

All these pages of complaints about mods and no one suggesting the obvious: mod your hand. Pop those worthless dangly fingers off and there you go.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

feraledge said:


> All these pages of complaints about mods and no one suggesting the obvious: mod your hand. Pop those worthless dangly fingers off and there you go.


the next step in human evolution is lopping off your hand and getting a drill hand with picks attached to it. It's what paul gilbert would want


----------



## Zhysick

feraledge said:


> All these pages of complaints about mods and no one suggesting the obvious: mod your hand. Pop those worthless dangly fingers off and there you go.



I wish my whole right arm was detachable: I don't know what to do with it every night when going to bed. 

If something I would prefer the whole arm than just the three extra fingers of the hand... I still prefer to hit the volume pot and check every once in a while if the volume is at 10 than having to sleep in the wierd postures I do


----------



## feraledge

Counterpoint. I love the volume pot location being close because when I’m playing live I methodically check to make sure it’s all the way up with my pinky. It’s easy and I’ve been doing it for 27 years. I can’t say a further pot would make me less likely to check it live.


----------



## Zhysick

feraledge said:


> Counterpoint. I love the volume pot location being close because when I’m playing live I methodically check to make sure it’s all the way up with my pinky. It’s easy and I’ve been doing it for 27 years. I can’t say a further pot would make me less likely to check it live.



Yes, you keep checking it but at least you always find it on 10


----------



## Flappydoodle

feraledge said:


> This is a wonderfully flippant example of telling someone that their opinion and likes are irrelevant to what you think their custom guitar should be.



Thank you


----------



## Flappydoodle

Jonathan20022 said:


> I only bring it up because people are just critiquing an Artist's own custom guitars. If it bothered him that his custom ESP's had the volume knob so close, it wouldn't be there. But it's definitely weird to see people nit pick a custom shop guitar designed for someone. If you want that design but want to move the volume knob, I'm sure they'll build one for you
> 
> And on a different note, it might be harsh but yeah players tend to accommodate their bad habits instead of correcting them. Moving the volume knob is definitely a solution to lowering your volume, but if it's only happening because you want to pick with an open claw then that's.. fixable? Via corrected technique?
> 
> If you want to pick harder to give your playing a more aggressive sound, the exaggerated hand movements aren't contributing to it.




Well I wasn’t criticising his custom guitar exactly. But a bunch of people said it simply isn’t an issue at all, or it must be bad technique (lol). And people were saying you need it close enough for volume swells etc. That’s what I was responding to, but pointing out that I don’t think TBDM uses a single volume swell or even a clean section in their live set.


----------



## jnthrngd

The special anniversary model is going to be the KH3. ESP and LTD versions, full inlays, Spider graphic (greenish and larger than the original), Gibson style 3 way toggle. Still has the modified headstock and cutaway though.


----------



## Mathemagician

KH3 is was based on I think the melody maker LP, never played one IRL. We’re the popular?


----------



## josh1

Why the heck is the urban camo LTD M-200 so hard to find? It's an inexpensive guitar made in China but damn near impossible to find. I'd really like to have one but no such luck.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Mathemagician said:


> KH3 is was based on I think the melody maker LP, never played one IRL. We’re the popular?



More like the old school, flat top Eclipse models from the 90's, before they were total LP clones.


----------



## possumkiller

MaxOfMetal said:


> More like the old school, flat top Eclipse models from the 90's, before they were total LP clones.


I think he means the headstock. It is based on the melody maker without the open book part. The melody maker is just the regular gibson headstock without gluing ears on the sides.


----------



## possumkiller

I don't think the body could be as thin as a melody maker and still accommodate a recessed fr tho.


----------



## soul_lip_mike

God I loved the KH3 and the KH1 so much. Do want.


----------



## OmegaSlayer

feraledge said:


> Counterpoint. I love the volume pot location being close because when I’m playing live I methodically check to make sure it’s all the way up with my pinky. It’s easy and I’ve been doing it for 27 years. I can’t say a further pot would make me less likely to check it live.


Remove the pot and use a kill-switch


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

josh1 said:


> Why the heck is the urban camo LTD M-200 so hard to find? It's an inexpensive guitar made in China but damn near impossible to find. I'd really like to have one but no such luck.



https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1450010351999627/

If you can convince this guy to ship I think you'd be set.


----------



## josh1

TheBolivianSniper said:


> https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1450010351999627/
> 
> If you can convince this guy to ship I think you'd be set.


Thanks man, I'll give it a shot!


----------



## Trashgreen

New updates to January 11-12-13:

https://www.espguitars.com/articles...ucz35SVdi_latgyQf-ayx6leUL-Sqxj0C20cc_RQXb1O0


----------



## Albake21

So instead of a normal NAMM event, ESP will be streaming their own thing for three days. Honestly as someone who's never been to NAMM, I appreciate being able to watch some reveal content from home.


----------



## Shoeless_jose

Albake21 said:


> So instead of a normal NAMM event, ESP will be streaming their own thing for three days. Honestly as someone who's never been to NAMM, I appreciate being able to watch some reveal content from home.



I feel like for brands that get this right it can become a new annual thing that will hype up a tonne of people. I'm slightly confused why it has set air times and not just posted to site/youtube but oh well im a simpleton


----------



## Zado

Albake21 said:


> So instead of a normal NAMM event, ESP will be streaming their own thing for three days. Honestly as someone who's never been to NAMM, I appreciate being able to watch some reveal content from home.


Yep, I got a preview of the event


----------



## Seabeast2000

Zado said:


> Yep, I got a preview of the event


For rent.


----------



## feraledge

Zado said:


> Yep, I got a preview of the event


Not how it looks on my screen:


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Zado said:


> Yep, I got a preview of the event



It's like the movie They Live, except in this case you have to have good taste in guitars to actually see the stuff.


----------



## Spicypickles

feraledge said:


> Not how it looks on my screen:



Does this mean the guitars are good or no? Because ole flavorville has burned the shit outta those ribs.


----------



## GenghisCoyne

Spicypickles said:


> Does this mean the guitars are good or no? Because ole flavorville has burned the shit outta those ribs.


i refuse to believe he cooked that lil fella


----------



## Trashgreen

New preview video:

Jan 11-13: ESP Presents 2021 - Video Preview - The ESP Guitar Company (espguitars.com)


----------



## soul_lip_mike

Let’s place bets on the new KH-3 price and quantities produced.


----------



## Mathemagician

KH3 made in Korea @ $1,299, calling it.


----------



## RiffRaff

Hoping for a miraculous reissue of Page Hamilton's silver ESP horizon...


----------



## Celtic Frosted Flakes

ESP KH3 - $ 4199 and 24 guitars made.


----------



## Zhysick

It's like the 30th anniversary so... why not 30 units? But I would say 666 units of the ESP, the LTD won't be limited BECAUSE I MAY WANT ONE and if it is limited I won't ever get one


----------



## Zhysick

THAT M1... I don't mind the whatever-wood-puke top is in green... is beautiful.

And watching Lynch play on an Eclipse is... weird? I can only associate him with superstrat guitars


----------



## soul_lip_mike

Celtic Frosted Flakes said:


> ESP KH3 - $ 4199 and 24 guitars made.



I hope your 24 is wrong. Price I could do.


----------



## gunch

dude I like that USA plain mahogany Viper


----------



## manu80

one seems to be a blood drip at the end of the video line up, right ?


----------



## Zhysick

gunch said:


> dude I like that USA plain mahogany Viper



That was my favorite too!


----------



## possumkiller

phase 3 is up. some really nice looking eclipses and horizons. they finally make a god damn japanese m2 7 baritone in a kick ass sparkle finish and just have to slap a fucking evertune on it...


----------



## possumkiller

japanese ex looks really hot. although im not sure what that floating third knob is about on the white one.


----------



## gunshow86de

possumkiller said:


> japanese ex looks really hot. although im not sure what that floating third knob is about on the white one.



I think it's a Photoshop error, there's no shadow on that knob. 

This has me kind of interested, I owned a white LTD EX way back in the early 2000's. Wish I would have kept it. Might get one of these for D-standard tuning.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

I swear to god ESP is spying on me. Except I was planning on doing a jawbreaker finish on a jazzmaster lol


----------



## mitou

A single humbucker M in that finish would be hnnnnggghh


----------



## Forkface

possumkiller said:


> phase 3 is up. some really nice looking eclipses and horizons. they finally make a god damn japanese m2 7 baritone in a kick ass sparkle finish and just have to slap a fucking evertune on it...


i was hoping for a cockstock somewhere, but alas.


----------



## Zado

KnightBrolaire said:


> I swear to god ESP is spying on me. Except I was planning on doing a jawbreaker finish on a jazzmaster lol


When you complain with ESP about the all white lineup, and they deliver white with rainbow color stains.


----------



## Musiscience

This is kinda cool. The rest is very underwhelming.






Edit: also no sign of SS frets on the E-II lineup.


----------



## Spicypickles

That H3 is so close. I don’t care for them with the knife head stock


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Zado said:


> When you complain with ESP about the all white lineup, and they deliver white with rainbow color stains.


 because all white is boring and this is awesome. I like guitar bling


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

The Jawbreaker speaks to me

So does this






Also cool to see the EX back. Looks like they're ever-so-slowly brining back the ESP Standards they discontinued back when they were cleaning up shop.


----------



## maximummetal288

I like the E-II EX. I wanted the Black Metal EX but might just go for the E-II now.


----------



## Rotatous

Its a shame the only E-II 7 string so far has an Evertune. Sorta dig the color but would have to see it in person.


----------



## JD27

Cool to see Reindeer Blue back on the Eclipse and I like that granite color. I like the way the Eclipse looks, but I never quite get along with them comfort wise or any LP shape for that matter. Otherwise fairly underwhelming on the E-II front.


----------



## Spicypickles

Rotatous said:


> Its a shame the only E-II 7 string so far has an Evertune. Sorta dig the color but would have to see it in person.


You mean the only new E-II? Because there are three others available now.

https://www.espguitars.com/products?categories=m-series-guitars


----------



## JD27

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Also cool to see the EX back. Looks like they're ever-so-slowly brining back the ESP Standards they discontinued back when they were cleaning up shop.



They actually brought the EX (V-II and SV as well) for the E-II back in 2016. They only stayed for that year though. I can’t remember seeing them in stock anywhere. It almost seems like they don’t build certain models unless a store places an order for one.


----------



## Mathemagician

Moreso than the frosted ice LTD, I’m gonna have to check out the sparklepony above. I’ve always been indifferent to evertune, but if it’s less hassle than a trem to occasionally do drop-A, I may just have to bite on this.


----------



## JimF

My experience is that its zero hassle to drop tune one. 
On a fixed bridge you'd turn your tuner 3 or so times and you'd be done. On an Evertune gutiar you'd turn the tuner maybe 5 times so the low B saddle unit rests against the internal stop (massively simplifiied in case you've not researched the bridge) and it behaves like a normal guitar. Only difference is you don't have the benefits that Evertune offers for the low B string (thats now detuned to A). But all the other strings are unaffected.

(To confirm, by "tuner" I'm referring to the machinehead on the headstock. All this is done without touching the bridge or getting the hex keys out of your toolbox)


----------



## Bearitone

Dude i fucking love that JawBreaker finish.


----------



## lewis

Rotatous said:


> Its a shame the only E-II 7 string so far has an Evertune. Sorta dig the color but would have to see it in person.



damn thats hot


----------



## RobDobble6S7

I love that blue sparkle EII...does anyone have USD $3k they'd be willing to give??


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

Maybe people are just referring to no new EII 7s, but there is already a hardtail sparkle EII 7 baritone.... its excellent.


----------



## Rotatous

Spicypickles said:


> You mean the only new E-II? Because there are three others available now.
> 
> https://www.espguitars.com/products?categories=m-series-guitars


Yes, just talking referring to new E-II 7s for 2021.

I think I'd be more into a "Granite Metallic" finish than the sparkle one they have going on. I sorta hope its darker in person, like these two:











Not sure where these came from exactly, spotted them on a FB group, but people have been wanting some 6 string reverse HS Horizons for a while. Id be surprised if they didn't also do the 7 string versions with these colors.


----------



## Trashgreen




----------



## Trashgreen




----------



## Zhysick

The Full Thickness Eclipse in Tobacco Burst? (the one with the black hardware and fishman open cores) and the M-I... YES!

Specially the M-I

I like it simple.


----------



## feraledge

I dig that the Horizons are getting satin neck finishes. It’s cool to see the US Eclipse has a Floyd, though I wish the Horizon got one too. 
Is semi-hollow this requested?
Surprised EIIs aren’t getting SS frets. 
But glad to see more people settling in to the EX.


----------



## Mathemagician

For the EX specifically, I think getting rid of it for a few years was a good call as it made it a bit more rare and gave the market some time grow and appreciate it for what it is versus comparing it straight to an explorer (bigger/rounder shape, banana headstock vs. sharp and knife headstock). 

Absence makes the heart grow fonder and all that.


----------



## Chanson

That jawbreaker finish is amazing.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Chanson said:


> That jawbreaker finish is amazing.



Next best thing to the Vernon Reid sanded swirl.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Mathemagician said:


> For the EX specifically, I think getting rid of it for a few years was a good call as it made it a bit more rare and gave the market some time grow and appreciate it for what it is versus comparing it straight to an explorer (bigger/rounder shape, banana headstock vs. sharp and knife headstock).
> 
> Absence makes the heart grow fonder and all that.



Hoping this means the next time they bring back the NV, it actually sells.


----------



## Trashgreen

I like the two new color additions for the Full thickness Eclipses, waaay better then their first attempt IMO. Hope they will have see thru finish on the back as well..

This doesn't look ecaxtly like I would think tobacco sunburst would look like but it looks great none the less!!


----------



## Rotatous

Mathemagician said:


> For the EX specifically, I think getting rid of it for a few years was a good call as it made it a bit more rare and gave the market some time grow and appreciate it for what it is versus comparing it straight to an explorer (bigger/rounder shape, banana headstock vs. sharp and knife headstock).
> 
> Absence makes the heart grow fonder and all that.


I've always had a soft spot for the the EX shape. The angles and lines are done way better than most of the other explorer-style guitars IMO. A fantasy guitar of mine would be a custom EX 7 string (with the knife edge headstock not that FX one).


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Trashgreen said:


> I like the two new color additions for the Full thickness Eclipses, waaay better then their first attempt IMO. Hope they will have see thru finish on the back as well..
> 
> This doesn't look ecaxtly like I would think tobacco sunburst would look like but it looks great none the less!!



I wonder if it's all the black hardware/plastic that's making it look "off?"


----------



## gunshow86de

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I wonder if it's all the black hardware/plastic that's making it look "off?"



I'm personally not a fan of black hardware on more "classic" looking sunbursts, especially with that cream binding.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

gunshow86de said:


> I'm personally not a fan of black hardware on more "classic" looking sunbursts, especially with that cream binding.



Really not sure what ESP was going with there. Chrome hardware would have looked so much better.


----------



## Zhysick

Rotatous said:


> Call
> 
> I've always had a soft spot for the the EX shape. The angles and lines are done way better than most of the other explorer-style guitars IMO. A fantasy guitar of mine would be a custom EX 7 string (with the knife edge headstock not that FX one).



And the bevels. In this guitar the bevels not only look great but are very comfortable! Aesthetics AND functionality. Win-win!



HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I wonder if it's all the black hardware/plastic that's making it look "off?"



I actually like this one because of the black hardware, it look less... bright? A bit diffent, a bit darker... I like it. Seems modern


----------



## Trashgreen

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I wonder if it's all the black hardware/plastic that's making it look "off?"



You could be right.. i found this Tobacco sunburst from the discontinued page at the Japanese ESP site:

https://espguitars.co.jp/product/5747/


----------



## Church2224

I am all over those 7 string M-IIs and the EXs. Good year for ESP in my book.


----------



## MaxOfMetal




----------



## TheInvisibleHand

Rotatous said:


> Yes, just talking referring to new E-II 7s for 2021.
> 
> I think I'd be more into a "Granite Metallic" finish than the sparkle one they have going on. I sorta hope its darker in person, like these two:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure where these came from exactly, spotted them on a FB group, but people have been wanting some 6 string reverse HS Horizons for a while. Id be surprised if they didn't also do the 7 string versions with these colors.



Now these are some guitars i would absolutely buy.


----------



## gunshow86de

Axe Palace just posted this on Facebook. I'm sure it's one of their one-offs, but I'd love for this to be the new Steph color run (especially single hum).


----------



## jnthrngd

soul_lip_mike said:


> Let’s place bets on the new KH-3 price and quantities produced.



ESP $4699 24 worldwide 
LTD $1299 one year release


----------



## bmth4111

What’s with all these guitars with pickup rings, makes them look cheap and awkward. 

The granite spark m7 bari is cool, would have been epic without inlays . And it doesn’t have stainless frets damn...


----------



## soul_lip_mike

gunshow86de said:


> Axe Palace just posted this on Facebook. I'm sure it's one of their one-offs, but I'd love for this to be the new Steph color run (especially single hum).



Axe palace always has great photos.


----------



## FrashyFroo

Incredibly poor showing from ESP in phase 3 compared to the LTD stuf they've announced. The only thing that's remotely interesting is the full thickness eclipse but I really don't need any more tobacco burst guitars. That M-I would have been sweet with a different bridge. I'm pretty disappointed there's still no E-II phoenix. I'd have thought they'd bring that back after the LTD phoenix models we got last year. 

And what's with all the TOM bridges and EMGs? I know ESP played a somewhat pioneering role in offering the evertune as a feature but on the whole, they're painfully conservative in what they'll put on their E-II guitars.


----------



## guitar_player4_2_0

gunshow86de said:


> Axe Palace just posted this on Facebook. I'm sure it's one of their one-offs, but I'd love for this to be the new Steph color run (especially single hum).



If an Ltd version of this comes out I’m ordering it immediately.


----------



## John

FrashyFroo said:


> And what's with all the TOM bridges and EMGs? I know ESP played a somewhat pioneering role in offering the evertune as a feature but on the whole, they're painfully conservative in what they'll put on their E-II guitars.



Exactly, it's not like they haven't made some FR and/or 24-fretted E-II Eclipses before, for example. 
That's been one of the dissuading factors for me for quite some time.


----------



## soul_lip_mike

FrashyFroo said:


> Incredibly poor showing from ESP in phase 3 compared to the LTD stuf they've announced. The only thing that's remotely interesting is the full thickness eclipse but I really don't need any more tobacco burst guitars. That M-I would have been sweet with a different bridge. I'm pretty disappointed there's still no E-II phoenix. I'd have thought they'd bring that back after the LTD phoenix models we got last year.
> 
> And what's with all the TOM bridges and EMGs? I know ESP played a somewhat pioneering role in offering the evertune as a feature but on the whole, they're painfully conservative in what they'll put on their E-II guitars.



Sorry to sound snobby, aand I get that the E-II and LTD probably sell a ton more than the higher end stuff but I basically just brush off anything I see from those two brandings. Waiting for next reveal for the good stuff!


----------



## Mboogie7

Love that the EX series is coming back. I’ll always have a soft spot for them, as my first guitar was an Ltd EX-100. Thankfully I still have it and may mod it at some point in the future. 

Also, that jawbreaker eclipse is hot as hell.


----------



## Hoss632

The blue reindeer eclipse is calling for me. The horizon models as well. ESP is straight killing it with their line up


----------



## Masoo2

Was the E-II EX actually discontinued or did they just stop selling it in the NA/US market for a while?

It's been in ESP Japan's website the whole time iirc

Regardless, good choice on the switch to brushed chrome pickup covers

Loving the baritone 7s


----------



## gunshow86de

Oh my...


----------



## Rotatous

That black one approaching dream guitar territory for me. Christ.


----------



## Spicypickles

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Next best thing to the Vernon Reid sanded swirl.


It’s called the gobstopper


----------



## MrWulf

The black one looks hot.


----------



## dirtool

I was expecting something like bs-7 with stainless steel frets


----------



## possumkiller

How hard is it to replace an evertune with a floyd or something?


----------



## FrashyFroo

soul_lip_mike said:


> Sorry to sound snobby, aand I get that the E-II and LTD probably sell a ton more than the higher end stuff but I basically just brush off anything I see from those two brandings. Waiting for next reveal for the good stuff!



I'm sure there'll be some tasty stuff in there but I just can't drop the cash required to buy an ESP Original, let alone one of their exhibition series. I don't even look at the ESP USA stuff when there's well-known US and EU based builders who'll make you 2 guitars with identical specs for the price of a single ESP USA.


----------



## feilong29

Mathemagician said:


> For the EX specifically, I think getting rid of it for a few years was a good call as it made it a bit more rare and gave the market some time grow and appreciate it for what it is versus comparing it straight to an explorer (bigger/rounder shape, banana headstock vs. sharp and knife headstock).
> 
> Absence makes the heart grow fonder and all that.



Such truth! I used to abhor the EX model--and as of the past few months, I've been trying to find one that isn't an arm and a leg. Specifically I wanted the EX-280, but the E-II coming up with scratch the itch (want that ebony fretboard).


----------



## AkiraSpectrum

The E-II reveal was very disappointing. Average offerings, no 'show-stoppers'.


----------



## Musiscience

gunshow86de said:


> Axe Palace just posted this on Facebook. I'm sure it's one of their one-offs, but I'd love for this to be the new Steph color run (especially single hum).


ESP Dino Carpenter model


----------



## Albake21

gunshow86de said:


> Oh my...


You guys are talking about the three SC models while I'm over here drooling over that pink 7 string snapper in the back left with a floyd...


----------



## Spicypickles

Albake21 said:


> You guys are talking about the three SC models while I'm over here drooling over that pink 7 string snapper in the back left with a floyd...


Same.


----------



## soul_lip_mike

Have full photos of the KH3 reissue been posted or do we only have the grainy Kirk video at this point?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Albake21 said:


> You guys are talking about the three SC models while I'm over here drooling over that pink 7 string snapper in the back left with a floyd...





Spicypickles said:


> Same.



It's apparently a super limited sig model run for Mikio Fujioka of Babymetal, who died awhile back.


----------



## Trashgreen

Masoo2 said:


> Was the E-II EX actually discontinued or did they just stop selling it in the NA/US market for a while?
> 
> It's been in ESP Japan's website the whole time iirc
> 
> Regardless, good choice on the switch to brushed chrome pickup covers
> 
> Loving the baritone 7s



Don't know which was the last time you checked but you're right that ESP Japan did have many models listed long after they where cleared on the USA site. However ESP Japan cleared their own website sometime last year and several models can now be found in the discontinued page:

https://espguitars.co.jp/products/e-2/discontinued-e2-model/

It's worth mentioning that the EX being re-introduced now has an Ebony fretboard!


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Masoo2 said:


> Was the E-II EX actually discontinued or did they just stop selling it in the NA/US market for a while?
> 
> It's been in ESP Japan's website the whole time iirc
> 
> Regardless, good choice on the switch to brushed chrome pickup covers
> 
> Loving the baritone 7s



ESP USA definitely discontinued a lot of the less-standard stuff for awhile (ESP/E-II V, Viper, EX, Phoenix, etc etc). There was a period for a few years where the Standard Series/E-II was stripped down to the best-selling products, and only a couple of colors.


----------



## TonyFlyingSquirrel

This is the first time in a long dang time I haven't seen a Michael Wlton siggy, but then again, these don't sell much.


----------



## StevenC

So we still have to wait for the Javier Reyes ESP announcement?


----------



## Masoo2

Trashgreen said:


> Don't know which was the last time you checked but you're right that ESP Japan did have many models listed long after they where cleared on the USA site. However ESP Japan cleared their own website sometime last year and several models can now be found in the discontinued page:
> 
> https://espguitars.co.jp/products/e-2/discontinued-e2-model/
> 
> It's worth mentioning that the EX being re-introduced now has an Ebony fretboard!


Oh wow yeah they cleared house, I've kept up a little bit with the ESP Japan website but not the E-II page. Had no clue they discontinued models like the M-II Seven, SV, CR-5, or other models not marketed in NA/US.

Lineup looks identical or close enough to NA/US now.


----------



## Zhysick

Mboogie7 said:


> Love that the EX series is coming back. I’ll always have a soft spot for them, as my first guitar was an Ltd EX-100. Thankfully I still have it and may mod it at some point in the future.
> 
> Also, that jawbreaker eclipse is hot as hell.



I have mine too! And is going to recieve an EMG81 in a few hours! Time to start modding the old beast to bring it back to its old glory! I want this one to become my main player again...


----------



## Trashgreen

StevenC said:


> So we still have to wait for the Javier Reyes ESP announcement?



Time will tell but on the bottom page it does say:

https://www.espguitars.com/pages/2021-product-preview-3

*"So, That’s All for 2021, Right?*
No. We still have more new guitars and basses that will be being debuted at various points of the year. These will include more ESP USA models, new Signature Series guitars, and new ESP Original Series and ESP Exhibition Limited guitars that will be announced when they become available. For now, be sure to watch our “ESP Presents 2021” streaming video show on January 11-13, 2021 for more info, and keep your eye on espguitars.com!"


----------



## jnthrngd

soul_lip_mike said:


> Have full photos of the KH3 reissue been posted or do we only have the grainy Kirk video at this point?



They haven’t been posted publicly yet but ESP is getting the site/page ready to go live.


----------



## Trashgreen

soul_lip_mike said:


> Have full photos of the KH3 reissue been posted or do we only have the grainy Kirk video at this point?



Has it even been confirmed that the KH3 is the very special anniversary model?

The KH3 is already a part of the signature series:

https://espguitars.co.jp/artists/7357/#content_area
(Scroll down a little)


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Trashgreen said:


> Has it even been confirmed that the KH3 is the very special anniversary model?
> 
> The KH3 is already a part of the signature series:
> 
> https://espguitars.co.jp/artists/7357/#content_area
> (Scroll down a little)



ESP Japan's website tends to be super janky. They listed some other limited edition models, as well as some discontinued models. Also the KH-3 on there isn't apparently the same one as the 2021 version (no green on the spider, and no Bonebreakers).


----------



## MFB

Has Kirk ever played the KH-DC live? I never even knew it existed until there was one used at GC not long ago, but I have legitimately zero memory of seeing him in a photo with one.


----------



## jnthrngd

Trashgreen said:


> Has it even been confirmed that the KH3 is the very special anniversary model?
> 
> The KH3 is already a part of the signature series:
> 
> https://espguitars.co.jp/artists/7357/#content_area
> (Scroll down a little)



It is. I have seen the photos and full write up/promo. It’s the 30th anniversary and this current version is a mode along the lines of an updated modern versions as opposed to a straight up reissue.


----------



## Trashgreen

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> ESP Japan's website tends to be super janky. They listed some other limited edition models, as well as some discontinued models. Also the KH-3 on there isn't apparently the same one as the 2021 version (no green on the spider, and no Bonebreakers).



I just watched the promo video again and you're right it sure is an updated version of the KH3! Guess we will see lots of pics next week!


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

MFB said:


> Has Kirk ever played the KH-DC live? I never even knew it existed until there was one used at GC not long ago, but I have legitimately zero memory of seeing him in a photo with one.



A few times


----------



## Mathemagician

Interesting that they’re saying essentially “look we may even do some limited runs, and if you don’t see everything you like now we may have some more this summer”. Historically “summer NAMM” was usually refreshes/adjustments to new offerings that proved to be super popular right?

I’m assuming global manufacturing not being up to normal yet will give a lot of companies pause in “overloading” a lineup this year. $0.02


----------



## jnthrngd

MFB said:


> Has Kirk ever played the KH-DC live? I never even knew it existed until there was one used at GC not long ago, but I have legitimately zero memory of seeing him in a photo with one.



yeah mainly around 2011/2012 or so


----------



## jnthrngd

Mathemagician said:


> Interesting that they’re saying essentially “look we may even do some limited runs, and if you don’t see everything you like now we may have some more this summer”. Historically “summer NAMM” was usually refreshes/adjustments to new offerings that proved to be super popular right?
> 
> I’m assuming global manufacturing not being up to normal yet will give a lot of companies pause in “overloading” a lineup this year. $0.02


I have heard there’s gonna be something cool 
Later this year. No details but I’m setting aside some $$ just in case


----------



## jnthrngd

KH3 Spider

ESP $4699 24 worldwide
LTD $1299 limited to one year (2021)


Maple neck through
Alder sides
Macassar Ebony fretboard
24.75 scale
24 XJ frets, 17-24 scalloped
Full KH3 inlays
3 way Gibson style toggle
EMG Bonebreakers (brushed black chrome in the ESP)
USA style horn
Green spider, yellow skull, white web graphic, slightly larger like Kirk’s


If you want an ESP act quickly =)


----------



## Mathemagician

jnthrngd said:


> I have heard there’s gonna be something cool
> Later this year. No details but I’m setting aside some $$ just in case



See, after this week my COB fanboy hype is at full mast so like if they were talking SV’s I’d be pre-hyped. But with no info I’m back to that E-II Sparklepony M7. (I will also 100% be calling it that from now on.)



jnthrngd said:


>



That green really does make it look more unique/special.


----------



## Chanson

Still waiting for some bass announcements. All we've seen so far are like 4 models, two of which is just a different finish with no new features. I know they aren't know for their basses, but gimme something sweet next week in the final announcements!


----------



## JD27

Kind of expected to see the Phoenix back in the E-II line. The VP of ESP USA confirmed they were going to be in the line up in a Facebook post last year before they delayed all the new E-IIs at NAMM. Maybe they will be along later in the year like they mentioned at the end of the Phase 3 releases.


----------



## soul_lip_mike

jnthrngd said:


> KH3 Spider
> 
> ESP $4699 24 worldwide
> LTD $1299 limited to one year (2021)
> 
> 
> Maple neck through
> Alder sides
> Macassar Ebony fretboard
> 24.75 scale
> 24 XJ frets, 17-24 scalloped
> Full KH3 inlays
> 3 way Gibson style toggle
> EMG Bonebreakers (brushed black chrome in the ESP)
> USA style horn
> Green spider, yellow skull, white web graphic, slightly larger like Kirk’s
> 
> 
> If you want an ESP act quickly =)



damn only 24? Crazy


----------



## couverdure

KnightBrolaire said:


> View attachment 88733
> I swear to god ESP is spying on me. Except I was planning on doing a jawbreaker finish on a jazzmaster lol


That finish reminds me of this album cover.


----------



## Spicypickles

The US style horn doesn’t look near as good. Lame


----------



## mbardu

jnthrngd said:


> KH3 Spider
> 
> ESP $4699 24 worldwide
> LTD $1299 limited to one year (2021)
> 
> 
> Maple neck through
> Alder sides
> Macassar Ebony fretboard
> 24.75 scale
> 24 XJ frets, 17-24 scalloped
> Full KH3 inlays
> 3 way Gibson style toggle
> EMG Bonebreakers (brushed black chrome in the ESP)
> USA style horn
> Green spider, yellow skull, white web graphic, slightly larger like Kirk’s
> 
> 
> If you want an ESP act quickly =)



I would have been waaaayyyyy into that when I was about fourteen.
Not even kidding _that much_.


----------



## Mboogie7

The KH3 is such a cool guitar and I wish Kirk would bring it out of retirement. I loved watching him play Creeping Death with it on the Cunning Stunts DVD.


----------



## CYPA

josh1 said:


> Why the heck is the urban camo LTD M-200 so hard to find? It's an inexpensive guitar made in China but damn near impossible to find. I'd really like to have one but no such luck.



There's one on reverb right now, in addition to the facebook listing someone else sent. 

https://reverb.com/item/36668934-esp-ltd-m-200-urban-camo


----------



## soul_lip_mike

Mboogie7 said:


> The KH3 is such a cool guitar and I wish Kirk would bring it out of retirement. I loved watching him play Creeping Death with it on the Cunning Stunts DVD.



woodstock 94 for me. That and his ouija.


----------



## jnthrngd

The KH3 is live on the site: https://www.espguitars.com/pages/kh-3-spider

no mention of it being limited so that’s good!


----------



## maximummetal288

Looks like they updated the website too.

Found this sunburst finish SC-20!
https://www.espguitars.com/products/24247-sc-20


----------



## Forkface

for whoever is interested, looks like the KH3 (the expensive version) is already up for Preorder on the Axepalace.


----------



## soul_lip_mike

A little bummed to find out the KH3 will not be in limited quantities mostly because I was able to reserve one, lol.


----------



## Trashgreen

Both looks awesome, definitely the best LTD version of the KH3 model to date!!


----------



## Trashgreen

See thru back, thank you!


----------



## Mathemagician

soul_lip_mike said:


> A little bummed to find out the KH3 will not be in limited quantities mostly because I was able to reserve one, lol.



The KH3 is limited. The LTD is the for funsies model.


----------



## I play music

Trashgreen said:


> Both looks awesome, definitely the best LTD version of the KH3 model to date!!


Looks like Kirk Wahmmett got the only sig guitar without stainless steel frets this year LOL


----------



## Zado

Trashgreen said:


> Both looks awesome, definitely the best LTD version of the KH3 model to date!!


Now this I can dig


----------



## soul_lip_mike

Mathemagician said:


> The KH3 is limited. The LTD is the for funsies model.


That’s not what nick at the axe palace relayed to me. Did you confirm the ESP will be limited quantities?


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Wasn’t there a Josh Travis sig?


----------



## Masoo2

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> Wasn’t there a Josh Travis sig?


I don't know if it was intended on being a sig or just a normal LTD 9 string but regardless yeah haven't seen anything about it


----------



## Mathemagician

soul_lip_mike said:


> That’s not what nick at the axe palace relayed to me. Did you confirm the ESP will be limited quantities?



My full mistake, I thought it was confirmed earlier in the thread to be limited #. It must have been someone’s speculation & not cited from ESP.


----------



## Bdtunn

Kh3 is available in left handed! 
My deposit is in


----------



## cardinal

I really wanted a KH3 way back when. Still think it's a cool guitar.


----------



## Mboogie7

Bdtunn said:


> Kh3 is available in left handed!
> My deposit is in



Oofta this is incredibly tempting. I had no intentions of getting another 6er anytime soon, but this.. this could change that.


----------



## Bdtunn

Mboogie7 said:


> Oofta this is incredibly tempting. I had no intentions of getting another 6er anytime soon, but this.. this could change that.



Yeah can’t pass this one up, wayyy to nostalgic for me


----------



## Forkface

I legit don't understand the appeal of the kh3, looks like a knockoff les paul with a gaudy sticker on it..

but then again, I bought the red sparkle Ouija as soon as it was announced, so yeah... to each their own lol.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Forkface said:


> I legit don't understand the appeal of the kh3, looks like a knockoff les paul with a gaudy sticker on it..
> 
> but then again, I bought the red sparkle Ouija as soon as it was announced, so yeah... to each their own lol.



That's pretty much what it is. 

I will admit I don't like the new version. Kirk's original looked better with the proper Les Paul shape, as well as the original production KH-3 and KH-603, when it had the pre-lawsuit cutaway.











Main issue is dat upper-fret access.  The new models are definitely function-over-form, but I still prefer the look of the old one.


----------



## JD27

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> Wasn’t there a Josh Travis sig?





Masoo2 said:


> I don't know if it was intended on being a sig or just a normal LTD 9 string but regardless yeah haven't seen anything about it



They indicated there will be more releases later in the year.


*



So, That’s All for 2021, Right?

Click to expand...

*


> No. We still have more new guitars and basses that will be being debuted at various points of the year. These will include more ESP USA models, new Signature Series guitars, and new ESP Original Series and ESP Exhibition Limited guitars that will be announced when they become available.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Masoo2 said:


> I don't know if it was intended on being a sig or just a normal LTD 9 string but regardless yeah haven't seen anything about it





r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> Wasn’t there a Josh Travis sig?



The only thing we had to go by was a video Josh himself posted. We all just speculated what it was.  As said above, it could be released later on.


----------



## manu80

so maybe finding a KH-603 with a sticker could work...if the prices don't explode...


----------



## works0fheart

Really wanting to see what the Alexi line is going to look like. That purple model of his looked sick


----------



## lewis

that LP headstock just isnt for me.
Looks like something off these super cheap guitars you find hanging in Thrift shops or tiny music shops.
like "Crafter" or whatever


----------



## manu80

If they bring back the KH3, why nor bringing the Hetfield V with flames. that would sell like hot cakes...more than those snabyte and Vulture abominations...


----------



## soul_lip_mike

manu80 said:


> If they bring back the KH3, why nor bringing the Hetfield V with flames. that would sell like hot cakes...more than those snabyte and Vulture abominations...



When will the 30 year anniversary of that one be? If I recall that model came out around mid-late 90's?


----------



## possumkiller

Did we miss the 30th anniversary KH1 and KH2 already?

Are they planning a 30th anniversary KH4?

20th anniversary Grynch?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

For those curious about the scale length of the MSV-1... it indeed is 24.75.







They went all out and made an Arrow-shaped Les Paul.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> For those curious about the scale length of the MSV-1... it indeed is 24.75.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They went all out and made an Arrow-shaped Les Paul.


ewww 24.75
I actually liked the other specs too dammit


----------



## aesthyrian

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> For those curious about the scale length of the MSV-1... it indeed is 24.75.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They went all out and made an Arrow-shaped Les Paul.



Which is odd because I asked Mike on two separate occasions and both times he confirmed it was 25.5". I really don't know what to think now.


----------



## JD27

Not odd when you consider he loves LPs. He basically wanted an Arrow with LP specs.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

aesthyrian said:


> Which is odd because I asked Mike on two separate occasions and both times he confirmed it was 25.5". I really don't know what to think now.



Reminds me when Alex Wade was adamant the 2nd version of his sig (the walnut AW7B) was a 27'' scale length, but ended up being 26.5''. The 3rd (current) version DID end up finally being 27''.


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

KnightBrolaire said:


> ewww 24.75
> I actually liked the other specs too dammit



Yo gibson scale is the jam, bends and slink for days in lower tunings


----------



## KnightBrolaire

TheBolivianSniper said:


> Yo gibson scale is the jam, bends and slink for days in lower tunings


I have big ass hands, 24.75 gets too cramped in the upper frets for me.
slink/easier bends is just due to lower string tension. Scale barely plays into tension in this situation.


----------



## aesthyrian

JD27 said:


> Not odd when you consider he loves LPs. He basically wanted an Arrow with LP specs.



"The Scale of this guitar is 25.5 - like other Arrow LTDs. Although i did start on a single cut style guitar once I evolved to the FLOYD ROSE bridge I started down the path of falling in love the bigger scale. For me the slightly bigger scale allows for more accuracy and I dont mind it at all. To me F spaced strings and 25.5 scale give me plenty of room to get expressive while still tight enough for that speed I need!"

From a comment Mike made on https://www.espguitars.com/videos/2039884


----------



## OmegaSlayer

In Omega's book, everything is soooo wrong with those Arrows 
The cherry red has no reverse headstock and has EMGs
The black and white ones have reversed headstocks but don't have Floyd
Mike's one has reversed headstock, Floyd but only one pick-up

Really like the Cherry Red one (as it has a Kai Hansen vibe), but I think the Andromeda finish is better


----------



## Flappydoodle

They said new ESP USA. But where? I haven't seen any.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Flappydoodle said:


> They said new ESP USA. But where? I haven't seen any.



I think those are coming Thursday/Friday with the new exhibition stuff.


----------



## narad

MaxOfMetal said:


> I think those are coming Thursday/Friday with the new exhibition stuff.



New exhibition stuff? Ah shit...


----------



## Flappydoodle

MaxOfMetal said:


> I think those are coming Thursday/Friday with the new exhibition stuff.



https://www.espguitars.com/articles/2014476-january-11-13-esp-presents-2021

This seems to say they should have come yesterday. 


*



MONDAY JANUARY 11:

Click to expand...

*


> ESP and LTD Signature Series, including close-up looks at the new LTD Josh Middleton JM-II, Mike Schleibaum MSV-1, and an announcement of a special new anniversary signature model of one of ESP's most acclaimed artists. Also features interviews with ESP artists like Gary Holt (Exodus), Alex Skolnick (Testament), Reba Meyers (Code Orange), and many more.
> 
> *TUESDAY JANUARY 12:* A spotlight on ESP Original Series, ESP USA, and E-II Series guitars. Features include a look at “New for 2021” E-II Guitars, interviews and performances by Page Hamilton (Helmet), George Lynch, Javier Reyes (Animals as Leaders), and demos of our high-end guitars from ESP USA, ESP Original Series and more from players like Luis Kalil, Bill Hudson, and more.
> 
> *WEDNESDAY JANUARY 13:* The focus is on our entire LTD Series guitars and basses, with spotlights and demos of dozens of new LTD and LTD Deluxe models, including the Arctic Metal Series, Black Metal Series, EC Series, M & MH Series, ’87 Series, Arrow, Phoenix, and many more, along with even more artist interviews.



But I don't really "get" what they're doing with this streaming stuff, haha


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Flappydoodle said:


> https://www.espguitars.com/articles/2014476-january-11-13-esp-presents-2021
> 
> This seems to say they should have come yesterday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But I don't really "get" what they're doing with this streaming stuff, haha



Someone posted an "updated" schedule or something some pages back, or maybe in the general "NAMM" thread. Could have sworn.


----------



## 77zark77

Satin  satin  satin  satin


----------



## myrtorp

The arctic white 6 string is the hottest of the new guitars I have seen so far! And im usually drooling over Ibanez 
I had big GAS for the Black metal 6 with fixed bridge from last year but this is a step up man, i dont even mind the pickup ring


----------



## I play music

Flappydoodle said:


> But I don't really "get" what they're doing with this streaming stuff, haha


I didn't even find the streaming on their webpage ...


----------



## Flappydoodle

I play music said:


> I didn't even find the streaming on their webpage ...



Me neither. But they emailed me twice telling me to click the link and watch the live event on their homepage. I get there, and nothing.


----------



## Trashgreen

Flappydoodle said:


> Me neither. But they emailed me twice telling me to click the link and watch the live event on their homepage. I get there, and nothing.





I play music said:


> I didn't even find the streaming on their webpage ...



2 hours and 50 minutes from this post should be the next and final preview. 

Central european time should be 19.00, 23.00 and 03.00 unless I missed something. I watched last re-play last night 03.00 (central european time).

It seems like there is one show starting 10.00 local time LA USA. Then it gets re-played 14.00 and 18.00 (local USA LA time)


----------



## possumkiller

ESP, just post a damn video. Nobody has the energy for this hyped up teaser bullshit right now...


----------



## JD27

aesthyrian said:


> "The Scale of this guitar is 25.5 - like other Arrow LTDs. Although i did start on a single cut style guitar once I evolved to the FLOYD ROSE bridge I started down the path of falling in love the bigger scale. For me the slightly bigger scale allows for more accuracy and I dont mind it at all. To me F spaced strings and 25.5 scale give me plenty of room to get expressive while still tight enough for that speed I need!"
> 
> From a comment Mike made on https://www.espguitars.com/videos/2039884



Must just be listed wrong.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

JD27 said:


> Must just be listed wrong.



Like I said there must have been a miscommunication and ESP did end up going with 24.75". Same thing happened wit the original walnut LTD Alex Wade baritone. He kept saying it'll be 27 but or ends up being 26.5.


----------



## JD27

Hope some of these make it out later this year.


----------



## Flappydoodle

Trashgreen said:


> 2 hours and 50 minutes from this post should be the next and final preview.
> 
> Central european time should be 19.00, 23.00 and 03.00 unless I missed something. I watched last re-play last night 03.00 (central european time).
> 
> It seems like there is one show starting 10.00 local time LA USA. Then it gets re-played 14.00 and 18.00 (local USA LA time)



Thanks for the information. Yeah, I'm likely not going to "tune in" at a specific time haha



possumkiller said:


> ESP, just post a damn video. Nobody has the energy for this hyped up teaser bullshit right now...



Agreed. They also posted a few clips on YouTube. Looks lame honestly. Very short interviews - the usual "endorsement" video where they say some stuff about ESP. And they're all clearly self recorded at home with webcams haha.


----------



## Trashgreen

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Like I said there must have been a miscommunication and ESP did end up going with 24.75". Same thing happened wit the original walnut LTD Alex Wade baritone. He kept saying it'll be 27 but or ends up being 26.5.





JD27 said:


> Must just be listed wrong.





aesthyrian said:


> "The Scale of this guitar is 25.5 - like other Arrow LTDs. Although i did start on a single cut style guitar once I evolved to the FLOYD ROSE bridge I started down the path of falling in love the bigger scale. For me the slightly bigger scale allows for more accuracy and I dont mind it at all. To me F spaced strings and 25.5 scale give me plenty of room to get expressive while still tight enough for that speed I need!"
> 
> From a comment Mike made on https://www.espguitars.com/videos/2039884



I watched the video again and again and there is nowhere I can find this exact quote from Mike. If someone can tell where in the video he mentions scale length please do so..?

He does mention the MSV-1 being all mahogany but says nothing about maple cap. Should be interesting to see what is what when these hit the stores.

ESP is know for getting the specs wrong. Like in 2018 when I bought the Sugizo Horizon which where listed as having XJ frets but turned out having vintage frets. I even told ESP about the mistake, it took ESP one year before correcting the specs when other people started making questions too. Funny thing some music stores still carry the first listed specs...


----------



## JD27

Flappydoodle said:


> Thanks for the information. Yeah, I'm likely not going to "tune in" at a specific time haha
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed. They also posted a few clips on YouTube. Looks lame honestly. Very short interviews - the usual "endorsement" video where they say some stuff about ESP. And they're all clearly self recorded at home with webcams haha.



So far the first 2 have consisted of Lynch mindlessly shredding on different ESP USA models in a museum and some short interviews with artists. Plays out more like an hour long infomercial, pretty disappointing. They had a chance to do something cool and mailed it in.


----------



## JD27

Trashgreen said:


> I watched the video again and again and there is nowhere I can find this exact quote from Mike. If someone can tell where in the video he mentions scale length please do so..?
> 
> He does mention the MSV-1 being all mahogany but says nothing about maple cap. Should be interesting to see what is what when these hit the stores.
> 
> ESP is know for getting the specs wrong. Like in 2018 when I bought the Sugizo Horizon which where listed as having XJ frets but turned out having vintage frets. I even told ESP about the mistake, it took ESP one year before correcting the specs when other people started making questions too. Funny thing some music stores still carry the first listed specs...



Mike answered it directly in the comments below the video.


----------



## Trashgreen

JD27 said:


> Mike answered it directly in the comments below the video.


Thank you, found the quote in the comments of the video!


----------



## I play music

Flappydoodle said:


> Thanks for the information. Yeah, I'm likely not going to "tune in" at a specific time haha


Just found it. You really aren't missing anything, I switched it off after 20 sec .. it's like endless annoying TV advertisement really


----------



## mlp187

JD27 said:


> Hope some of these make it out later this year.


E-II Japan gets some really cool stuff. I’m wondering if market research shows those Japanese market items performing poorly stateside or if it is some manager’s gut feeling. Not that they don’t already have some great offerings in the states, and they certainly aren’t hurting for sales.


----------



## JD27

mlp187 said:


> E-II Japan gets some really cool stuff. I’m wondering if market research shows those Japanese market items performing poorly stateside or if it is some manager’s gut feeling. Not that they don’t already have some great offerings in the states, and they certainly aren’t hurting for sales.



Good question, I think there are definitely some that wouldn’t be very well accepted. Beyond the crazy shapes some Japanese artists get, they have some real odd choices in specs that seem to be popular there. These aren’t signature guitars, but they were also posted and have Phatcats (I’m assuming, Humbucker sized P90s at any rate) and non locking trems, Gotoh 510 probably. Can’t imagine that being a choice most us buyers would want, but it very well may work just fine in the Japanese market.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

JD27 said:


> Good question, I think there are definitely some that wouldn’t be very well accepted. Beyond the crazy shapes some Japanese artists get, they have some real odd choices in specs that seem to be popular there. These aren’t signature guitars, but they were also posted and have Phatcats (I’m assuming, Humbucker sized P90s at any rate) and non locking trems, Gotoh 510 probably. Can’t imagine that being a choice most us buyers would want, but it very well may work just fine in the Japanese market.



Good god how do I get that purple one stateside?!


----------



## Korblod

Im debating myself between this two models, the LTD´s EC-1000 FR, I like both, but the See Thru it´s sexier, the issue is the pickups it comes with, EMG 66TW/EMG 57F, I just know nothing about those ones, anyone has any suggestions?, I want this guitar for some Heavy and Thrash metal tones, and last, anyone knows how much this are gonna cost?


----------



## Masoo2

JD27 said:


> Good question, I think there are definitely some that wouldn’t be very well accepted. Beyond the crazy shapes some Japanese artists get, they have some real odd choices in specs that seem to be popular there. These aren’t signature guitars, but they were also posted and have Phatcats (I’m assuming, Humbucker sized P90s at any rate) and non locking trems, Gotoh 510 probably. Can’t imagine that being a choice most us buyers would want, but it very well may work just fine in the Japanese market.


God those are so cool.

May be wrong about this, but doesn't ESP Japan treat much of their unique/cool E-IIs as limited runs? Similar to the multiple limited runs we've seen them have in Australia? Where as in the US they seem to make E-IIs be constant stock items that you should theoretically be able to order at any major chian.

Guess there probably isn't a big enough market for those in the US which is a real shame because they're all stupid nice.


----------



## lewis

Korblod said:


> Im debating myself between this two models, the LTD´s EC-1000 FR, I like both, but the See Thru it´s sexier, the issue is the pickups it comes with, EMG 66TW/EMG 57F, I just know nothing about those ones, anyone has any suggestions?, I want this guitar for some Heavy and Thrash metal tones, and last, anyone knows how much this are gonna cost?
> View attachment 88968
> View attachment 88969


Those pickups are incredible.

the TW version of the 66 neck pickup means its able to be split and do single coil tones (which sound great) and that 57F (F is just the FLoyd spaced version - its tonally identical to a regular 57) is one mean pup. Many claim the 57/66 set to be the best pups EMG offer.

Anything a few years old from Andy James is 57/66 set -


----------



## Korblod

lewis said:


> Those pickups are incredible.
> 
> the TW version of the 66 neck pickup means its able to be split and do single coil tones (which sound great) and that 57F (F is just the FLoyd spaced version - its tonally identical to a regular 57) is one mean pup. Many claim the 57/66 set to be the best pups EMG offer.



I guess that if I end up not liking em' I could just buy an EMG 81/60 set (I've seen that switching EMG pickups is really easy as to unplug old ones and plug new ones), but my main concern when switching is the 66 pickup, couse it comes with the push/pull knob system, will I be able to swich to another pickup without having to mess with the wiring and stuff?


----------



## lewis

Korblod said:


> I guess that if I end up not liking em' I could just buy an EMG 81/60 set (I've seen that switching EMG pickups is really easy as to unplug old ones and plug new ones), but my main concern when switching is the 66 pickup, couse it comes with the push/pull knob system, will I be able to swich to another pickup without having to mess with the wiring and stuff?


exactly!

dont forget everything they do is solderless (quick connect) and buying pickups from them always comes with pots and wiring kit, therefore should you want to change the pups for 81/60 and the stock push/pull is giving problems or not ideal, its simple to unplug it and plug in a normal tone pot from the new set  

(Provided the factory didnt choose to solder the stock pickups in - in that case you would have to get the soldering iron out to make the switch)


----------



## Millul

WTF???
The purple, 510-ed M-II and that quilted top Hipshot M-I would be INSTABUYS for me! are these Japan-only??


----------



## MKII

I guess the M-1000 proper will be the last to reveal? Killing me. I hope they don't fuck it up.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

Did they announce the person that won the arctic metal prototype?


----------



## Crash Dandicoot

Japanese site posted some different E-IIs:






















A few more at the link. HB sized P-90s with a Hipshot Contour on an M-II? Fucking strange and I dig it.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Crash Dandicoot said:


>



Alright, I'm awake now.


----------



## Crash Dandicoot

Right? What a strange configuration to go with. 3 colors, too.


----------



## AkiraSpectrum

I like!


----------



## mlp187

Crash Dandicoot said:


>


I was optimistic the purple 7 would get this color option. Still am actually. I’ve been dreaming about it for a year.

ETA @JD27 posted this a page or two back, but I didn’t recognize the color because of the lighting/filtering of the photo.


----------



## Trashgreen

ESP Japan strikes back!


----------



## Mathemagician

Those SV’s!!!!




Crash Dandicoot said:


> Right? What a strange configuration to go with. 3 colors, too.



If you think of them as “p90 strats” they make a bit more sense. Then go to “sexy p90 strats” and boom.


----------



## OmegaSlayer

Crash Dandicoot said:


> Right? What a strange configuration to go with. 3 colors, too.


I like it...


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

I would legit buy one of those SVs


----------



## Zado

P90? Ok wow.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

The pink and green ones are very reminiscent of the Caparison Cortney Cox signature. Which I am not complaining about.


----------



## Albake21

I was so bummed when I saw the green sparkle was a baritone 7, but now we have a blue and green 6 string??? Sign me up! Also the green one with the hipshot trem has me super interested. Do we know if these are Japanese exclusive? I hope not.


----------



## JD27

The M-1 with a hipshot and reversed headstock Horizons are awesome. With better pics, it appears those are some kind of BK P90. Still a strange choice, though I do like P90s.


----------



## Phlegethon

That M-1 with the 57 in the bridge and those dual P90 M-2's have my attention. Too bad they're (likely) Japan only.


----------



## jephjacques

I really wanna see pics of those new M7 baritone USA models


----------



## manu80

So what's the deal with all the videos etc they were about to release? I don't see the lynch Eclipse on the site. Am I missing something ?


----------



## Church2224

jephjacques said:


> I really wanna see pics of those new M7 baritone USA models



Where did you get this info? I am very intrigued...


----------



## JD27

manu80 said:


> So what's the deal with all the videos etc they were about to release? I don't see the lynch Eclipse on the site. Am I missing something ?



It’s not a Lynch model, just an Eclipse USA in a new finish.


----------



## gunshow86de

jephjacques said:


> I really wanna see pics of those new M7 baritone USA models





Church2224 said:


> Where did you get this info? I am very intrigued...



As am I. Was it on the livestream thing? Did they say if it's neck-through or bolt-on? Will it have the "regular" inline ESP headstock, or the one on the current USA M-7 (the worst one!)?


----------



## JD27

Church2224 said:


> Where did you get this info? I am very intrigued...



In the Phase 3 release, they just didn’t show a picture.



> The ESP USA M-7 Baritone is a 7-string baritone guitar with bolt-on construction at 27” scale. This guitar has a mahogany body with three-piece maple neck, ebony fingerboard, a Hipshot hardtail bridge, Sperzel locking Tuners, and choice of finish, top wood, pickup and hardware selections.


----------



## gunshow86de

Dang, it's just a 27" scale version of the current USA M-7.


----------



## works0fheart

Crash Dandicoot said:


> Japanese site posted some different E-IIs:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few more at the link. HB sized P-90s with a Hipshot Contour on an M-II? Fucking strange and I dig it.



Now the question is where will we actually be able to get these? I'd pick up one of those SVs pretty swiftly.


----------



## Spicypickles

These damn fades and non Floyd trems :/


----------



## Wc707

Spicypickles said:


> These damn fades and non Floyd trems :/



I feel ya!


----------



## zimbloth

MaxOfMetal said:


> I think those are coming Thursday/Friday with the new exhibition stuff.



Exhibition models wont be until March or so. New Original Series include Snapper 7s.


----------



## Metal Mortician

Damn. Been wanting an SV for ages. Sold a blacky Laiho LTD because I really wanted a neck PU for leads. I hope the Japanese resellers on eBay/Reverb won’t take me to the cleaners.

This year comes down to an SV or an RG565 reissue for me.


----------



## StevenC

zimbloth said:


> Exhibition models wont be until March or so. New Original Series include Snapper 7s.


What about the rumoured Javier Reyes strat 8?


----------



## cardinal

StevenC said:


> What about the rumoured Javier Reyes strat 8?



I think that it's rumored only in our fantasies, unfortunately.


----------



## Crash Dandicoot

Phlegethon said:


> That M-1 with the 57 in the bridge and those dual P90 M-2's have my attention. Too bad they're (likely) Japan only.



You can order from Ishibashi, Digimart or a million other places if you want one, "Japan only" isn't the death sentence it used to be. Unless you're referring to trying one out, because in that case you're rather screwed :/


----------



## cardinal

zimbloth said:


> Exhibition models wont be until March or so. New Original Series include Snapper 7s.



Are the Snapper 7s going to be readily available in the US?


----------



## narad

Crash Dandicoot said:


> You can order from Ishibashi, Digimart or a million other places if you want one, "Japan only" isn't the death sentence it used to be. Unless you're referring to trying one out, because in that case you're rather screwed :/



But you'd still be 50% screwed at some shops, even if you were here


----------



## Phlegethon

Crash Dandicoot said:


> You can order from Ishibashi, Digimart or a million other places if you want one, "Japan only" isn't the death sentence it used to be. Unless you're referring to trying one out, because in that case you're rather screwed :/



Tried out an LTD M-1000 in person so I have a good sense of what to expect here. But if I keep the 'Japan only' thing in mind I'm less likely to murder my credit cards getting them lol.


----------



## OmegaSlayer

TheInvisibleHand said:


> The pink and green ones are very reminiscent of the Caparison Cortney Cox signature. Which I am not complaining about.


Those Capas are way cooler imho



cardinal said:


> I think that it's rumored only in our fantasies, unfortunately.


I think the Mystique shape is really cool...too bad it doesn't have the Schaller Hannes anymore


----------



## cardinal

OmegaSlayer said:


> I think the Mystique shape is really cool...too bad it doesn't have the Schaller Hannes anymore



Give it a Floyd and I'll be all about it!


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

StevenC said:


> What about the rumoured Javier Reyes strat 8?



I think that's less "rumored" and more "for the love of god please release it."


----------



## StevenC

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I think that's less "rumored" and more "for the love of god please release it."


I'm this* close to just ordering a custom version.

*imagine my fingers are very close together


----------



## cardinal

StevenC said:


> I'm this* close to just ordering a custom version.
> 
> *imagine my fingers are very close together



Id spec'd out a similar Schecter (just since I have a track record with them now), but just decided not to pull the trigger since I'm not sure why I'd truly want another guitar at this point. But in any event, they'd be happy to do it.


----------



## StevenC

cardinal said:


> Id spec'd out a similar Schecter (just since I have a track record with them now), but just decided not to pull the trigger since I'm not sure why I'd truly want another guitar at this point. But in any event, they'd be happy to do it.


Yeah it'll be a Schecter just deciding if I can live with an import Floyd or if I can justify a Hantug. Was planning to order it last year, but you know...


----------



## Flappydoodle

So there was a lot of new LTD, quite a bit of E-II

Where was Original and USA?

Someone mentioned Snapper 7 above, but I can't find it on the site

No new Originals as far as I can see


----------



## cardinal

Flappydoodle said:


> So there was a lot of new LTD, quite a bit of E-II
> 
> Where was Original and USA?
> 
> Someone mentioned Snapper 7 above, but I can't find it on the site
> 
> No new Originals as far as I can see



The Snapper 7s are on the Japanese site. It'd be great if they're readily available in the States.


----------



## cardinal

StevenC said:


> Yeah it'll be a Schecter just deciding if I can live with an import Floyd or if I can justify a Hantug. Was planning to order it last year, but you know...



I have several guitars with the import Floyd 8 and never any problems. But Hantug is a super nice guy and his stuff looks amazing.


----------



## feraledge

Flappydoodle said:


> So there was a lot of new LTD, quite a bit of E-II
> 
> Where was Original and USA?
> 
> Someone mentioned Snapper 7 above, but I can't find it on the site
> 
> No new Originals as far as I can see


I just don’t think the US site is updated yet, but did they mention new originals?
I still want that offset Horizon.


----------



## mlp187

Ummmmmmm yes please:


----------



## StevenC

mlp187 said:


> Ummmmmmm yes please:
> View attachment 89129


Well that's really damn close


----------



## Trashgreen

Only 580.000yen!! without tax though..

https://espguitars.co.jp/artists/15864/


----------



## mlp187

Trashgreen said:


> Only 580.000yen!! without tax though..
> 
> https://espguitars.co.jp/artists/15864/


Yeah it’s definitely a little pricey. Ikebe-Gakki has the 8-string @464,000 yen, but after shipping I imagine it get’s pretty close to 500,000.


----------



## mlp187

feraledge said:


> I just don’t think the US site is updated yet, but did they mention new originals?
> I still want that offset Horizon.


Last year the ESP USA site wasn’t updated until the end of June. Not sure if C-19 was a contributing factor.


----------



## Flappydoodle

feraledge said:


> I just don’t think the US site is updated yet, but did they mention new originals?
> I still want that offset Horizon.



Again, I don't see any new originals listed on the site (at least not Horizons, H3, Eclipse or Arrows)

I don't think the KH-3 counts, since it's limited edition custom shop


----------



## garga

mlp187 said:


> Last year the ESP USA site wasn’t updated until the end of June. Not sure if C-19 was a contributing factor.


 
they updated the prices on the esp USA models. its up $200 for the base models. trust them to update whats most important first


----------



## cardinal

I like how the wider, longer neck makes the Snapper 24-fret body look less awkward IMHO. 

I've been musing over that guitar, but the cost puts it in the realm of a custom Schecter which could be spec'd exactly how you'd want it.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Okay yeah that 8-string Snapper looks hot.


----------



## Crash Dandicoot

narad said:


> But you'd still be 50% screwed at some shops, even if you were here



As in they are available in most shops? Not sure I follow your meaning.



cardinal said:


> I like how the wider, longer neck makes the Snapper 24-fret body look less awkward IMHO.



I'd love a 24-fret 6 string Snapper (and likely will get one at some point), but the extra material removed definitely gives them a slightly different vibe. Not necessarily awkward in my eyes, just different.


----------



## jephjacques

fuck, that Snapper 8 owns


----------



## narad

Crash Dandicoot said:


> As in they are available in most shops? Not sure I follow your meaning.



Like if he was referring to "trying one out" outside of Japan he's screwed. But even inside Japan there's a good number of shops that will still be reluctant to let you try it out on the high end stuff.


----------



## guitar_player4_2_0

I noticed the urban camo MII I just picked up last summer got a $200 price hike. ESP seems to be going up pretty quickly in price the past few years. I got a green SC20 the year they came out for $899. Now the blue and sunburst are $1099, granted you get a case now and I didn’t. I expect the SC LTD models will be 1500 here pretty quick, the 8 string anyways. I also noticed the single pickup SN-1 appears to be $100 more than last years 2 pickup SN-1000. In my opinion the Black Metal series seems to be the best value they have going now in terms of quality and specs relating to price.


----------



## feraledge

guitar_player4_2_0 said:


> I noticed the urban camo MII I just picked up last summer got a $200 price hike. ESP seems to be going up pretty quickly in price the past few years. I got a green SC20 the year they came out for $899. Now the blue and sunburst are $1099, granted you get a case now and I didn’t. I expect the SC LTD models will be 1500 here pretty quick, the 8 string anyways. I also noticed the single pickup SN-1 appears to be $100 more than last years 2 pickup SN-1000. In my opinion the Black Metal series seems to be the best value they have going now in terms of quality and specs relating to price.


Everything is going up and lack of availability isn't going to help that at all. But there's really no question, the Black Metal and Arctic Metals are incredible deals. My Black Metal M is an insanely sick guitar and I got it used for $500 in amazing condition.


----------



## Chanson

If I understand it right, are they still releasing more stuff midway through 2021? There is a bass I thought was coming in the new year release, but no mention of it.


----------



## Musiscience

narad said:


> Like if he was referring to "trying one out" outside of Japan he's screwed. But even inside Japan there's a good number of shops that will still be reluctant to let you try it out on the high end stuff.



Is it because you're a foreigner or they just don't want dents/scratches on the very expensive stuff?


----------



## soul_lip_mike

Chanson said:


> If I understand it right, are they still releasing more stuff midway through 2021? There is a bass I thought was coming in the new year release, but no mention of it.



curious too. I saw some stuff posted on Instagram for ESP presents 2021 by their USA painter. HTTPS://Instagram.com/spongebrick


----------



## Chanson

These are the two (updated) models I thought were coming out. Since they're both Ltd, I figured it's likely proof that they're going to be production models. Really hoping that bass is released. Been wanting to try bass Fishmans and that finish and the body shape work really well together.


----------



## gunshow86de

Maybe it's been this way for a while, but it looks like the Bill from Mastodon is using Duncan Distortions now? The Sparrowhawk looks nice in the Black Beauty motif.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

gunshow86de said:


> Maybe it's been this way for a while, but it looks like the Bill from Mastodon is using Duncan Distortions now? The Sparrowhawk looks nice in the Black Beauty motif.



Yeah he stopped using Lace a bit ago and started using Duncans recently.


----------



## JD27

gunshow86de said:


> Maybe it's been this way for a while, but it looks like the Bill from Mastodon is using Duncan Distortions now? The Sparrowhawk looks nice in the Black Beauty motif.



Since last year, he had them in his Eclipse. Kind of weird they dropped the Sparrowhawk last year and brought it back. Maybe they didn’t have enough supply of his covered distortions for both.


----------



## BigViolin

narad said:


> Like if he was referring to "trying one out" outside of Japan he's screwed. But even inside Japan there's a good number of shops that will still be reluctant to let you try it out on the high end stuff.



So, if you are looking to spend say 5k US do you have to flash a black card 
or do they just say "buy now, try later?"


----------



## Emperoff

mlp187 said:


> Ummmmmmm yes please:
> View attachment 89129



Phase-II sized-passives on a brand new guitar?. Now that's retarded. Good luck finding passive replacements since Bare Knuckle soapbars won't line up with EMG holes.


----------



## mlp187

Emperoff said:


> Phase-II sized-passives on a brand new guitar?. Now that's retarded. Good luck finding passive replacements since Bare Knuckle soapbars won't line up with EMG holes.


Except that I like that guitar as-is, so not a problem for me!
ETA: not that I’m buying one at the moment, but the possibility is real


----------



## cardinal

I really like the Stream shape. Wish they did more with it (eg, 6-string bass or 7- or 8-string guitars)


----------



## Mathemagician

Man I hope no store near me gets in any new LTD/ESP’s this year. May not be able to stop myself. Two different 7’s I want at two different price point. ESP really saying “talk shit now bro, that’s what I thought”.


----------



## TheShreddinHand

Has anyone ever swapped the volume knob and pickup selector on a Horizon? Wondering if they are the same size cutout.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

TheShreddinHand said:


> Has anyone ever swapped the volume knob and pickup selector on a Horizon? Wondering if they are the same size cutout.



Toggle switches are usually about 1/2" while pots around 3/8", I say "about/around" as some measure in metric while others are SAE.


----------



## TheShreddinHand

MaxOfMetal said:


> Toggle switches are usually about 1/2" while pots around 3/8", I say "about/around" as some measure in metric while others are SAE.



Hmmm, okay. So not a direct fit but possibly could do some mods to make it work (although not sure I’d want to on an ESP version).


----------



## setsuna7

TheShreddinHand said:


> Has anyone ever swapped the volume knob and pickup selector on a Horizon? Wondering if they are the same size cutout.


I did that on my NT7(well, my tech did it). 
Like Max said, some drilling need to be done though...


----------



## MaxOfMetal

TheShreddinHand said:


> Hmmm, okay. So not a direct fit but possibly could do some mods to make it work (although not sure I’d want to on an ESP version).



Yeah, it's totally doable, it's just not a direct swap. You can use rubber washers and a larger diameter metal one to hold the pot in the larger hole, and use a smaller format switch to fit the pot hole. Maybe not ideal, but then you don't have to drill. 

I'd probably just remove the tone and put the volume in its place. Unless you absolutely need a tone knob it's the most simple way to handle a "too close to bridge/pickup" volume knob.


----------



## I play music

Chanson said:


> These are the two (updated) models I thought were coming out. Since they're both Ltd, I figured it's likely proof that they're going to be production models. Really hoping that bass is released. Been wanting to try bass Fishmans and that finish and the body shape work really well together.


Maybe they'll announce more during the year ?


----------



## Majoggy

Pricing for new E II and Ltd models has been announced in the UK and prices seems hiked massively. Brexit, Covid? Who knows?


----------



## JD27

Majoggy said:


> Pricing for new E II and Ltd models has been announced in the UK and prices seems hiked massively. Brexit, Covid? Who knows?



ESP USA and E-IIs went up in US as well, seems like a price increase across the board.


----------



## Majoggy

JD27 said:


> ESP USA and E-IIs went up in US as well, seems like a price increase across the board.



Urgh. Even so, the Josh Middleton Signature Model (guitar I have my eye on) is £400 ($550) more expensive over here - and I included generic US sales tax to come to that figure!

Djsggsjndhsnd


----------



## possumkiller

setsuna7 said:


> I did that on my NT7(well, my tech did it).
> Like Max said, some drilling need to be done though...


Dude. Nice fucking pair! I like your stripes.


----------



## setsuna7

possumkiller said:


> Dude. Nice fucking pair! I like your stripes.


Thanks man!! those are just some electrical tapes, inspired by a certain guitarist named JB!!! I'm sending the NT7 for a SS refret tomorrow. Jescar Medium Tall Jumbo or something..


----------



## TheShreddinHand

MaxOfMetal said:


> Yeah, it's totally doable, it's just not a direct swap. You can use rubber washers and a larger diameter metal one to hold the pot in the larger hole, and use a smaller format switch to fit the pot hole. Maybe not ideal, but then you don't have to drill.
> 
> I'd probably just remove the tone and put the volume in its place. Unless you absolutely need a tone knob it's the most simple way to handle a "too close to bridge/pickup" volume knob.



What would I do with the wires going to that tone pot to leave it as if the tone was on 10 full time?


----------



## cardinal

TheShreddinHand said:


> What would I do with the wires going to that tone pot to leave it as if the tone was on 10 full time?



If you want it really as if the tone knob always were on 10, you'd just replace the tone pot/wires with a 500k resistor. If you want the tone pot completely gone, just remove it and the wires connected to it.


----------



## TheShreddinHand

cardinal said:


> If you want it really as if the tone knob always were on 10, you'd just replace the tone pot/wires with a 500k resistor. If you want the tone pot completely gone, just remove it and the wires connected to it.



If I remove it completely is that like the guitar sounding like the tone knob is turned down to zero?

Also, any suggestions on what to fill an empty hole with? LOL!


----------



## Spicypickles

Just leave the pot there, unconnected.


----------



## cardinal

TheShreddinHand said:


> If I remove it completely is that like the guitar sounding like the tone knob is turned down to zero?
> 
> Also, any suggestions on what to fill an empty hole with? LOL!



If I'm remembering this right, the tone pot on ten is essentially wired as a 500k resistor to ground (through the tone capacitor), loading the pickups a bit (darker tone, bit less output). 

As you lower the tone pot, the resistance to ground (through the tone cap) gets lower and lower, making the tone darker and darker etc.

If you remove it completely, you remove all the load associated with the tone pot (it's like, infinite resistance or whatever) and the sound will be brighter with more output than with the tone pot even on 10.


----------



## aesthyrian

TheShreddinHand said:


> Also, any suggestions on what to fill an empty hole with? LOL!



I use these in the appropriate size.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

aesthyrian said:


> I use these in the appropriate size.



I ain't clicking that.


----------



## Korblod

Anyone knows how long it took for the 2020 models to come out on the market last year?, I´d like to get an idea of how long I´m gonna have to wait for the 2021 models to hit the market (waiting for the new ec1000 fr)


----------



## TheShreddinHand

Spicypickles said:


> Just leave the pot there, unconnected.



After I signed off the site I was thinking to myself just leave it in the control cavity wired up in some foam. Duh! Haha!


----------



## bostjan

TheShreddinHand said:


> What would I do with the wires going to that tone pot to leave it as if the tone was on 10 full time?


If you want MAXIMUM BRIGHTNESS, just wire the output of your bridge pickup directly to the output jack. Some people on the forum might think I'm joking, but I've done this one all of my main guitars and I think it sounds killer. The switch doesn't kill off any consequential amount of brightness, so, if you use your neck pickup, just wire the switch to the jack if you still want to use it and also achieve MAXIMUM BRIGHTNESS.

It's like your volume and tone are both set to eleven... or maybe 11 and a half.

Just a suggestion for thought.


----------



## aesthyrian

MaxOfMetal said:


> I ain't clicking that.



haha why not? Hole plugs don't sound fun to you?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

aesthyrian said:


> haha why not? Hole plugs don't sound fun to you?



Listen bro, what things of "appropriate" sizes you fill all your holes with is between you and the Lord.


----------



## Spicypickles

TheShreddinHand said:


> After I signed off the site I was thinking to myself just leave it in the control cavity wired up in some foam. Duh! Haha!


Yep, that’s what I do to mine.


----------



## mlp187

Tiger Eye horizon has a decent price at MF:


----------



## SamSam

BigViolin said:


> So, if you are looking to spend say 5k US do you have to flash a black card
> or do they just say "buy now, try later?"



Got to be honest, I never had this issue in the 30+ shops I visited in Japan. Although you do have to ask and then they will (usually) pick up the guitar, tune it, wipe it down and present it to you as if it were excalibur.


----------



## landmvrks

Loving those arctic white ones this year.


----------



## JD27

PSA... Chondro guitars was able to get 4 of these Japan only (for now at least) E-II Horizons. I’m far too poor these days to get one, but here’s your chance if you want one.


----------



## soul_lip_mike

JD27 said:


> PSA... Chondro guitars was able to get 4 of these Japan only (for now at least) E-II Horizons. I’m far too poor these days to get one, but here’s your chance if you want one.



Didn’t axe palace nick say it was possible to get any Japan only models if requested? Is there a catalog of these models to peruse?


----------



## jco5055

random question, but in recent memory (lets say since 2010 or so) have ESP ever released an Original series 7 that wasn't a sig model? I know they have the M-Seven in Japan but I'm thinking for Europe/North America.


----------



## jco5055

soul_lip_mike said:


> Didn’t axe palace nick say it was possible to get any Japan only models if requested? Is there a catalog of these models to peruse?



yeah he did, he told me he could order me an M-Seven if I ever decided on one.


----------



## JD27

soul_lip_mike said:


> Didn’t axe palace nick say it was possible to get any Japan only models if requested? Is there a catalog of these models to peruse?



Just about anything anyway. Look at the ESP Japan website, they updated it recently with all the new models.


----------



## narad

BigViolin said:


> So, if you are looking to spend say 5k US do you have to flash a black card
> or do they just say "buy now, try later?"



Well my general advice is that if you have say $5k USD to spend, either look like you have $5k USD to spend, stick to the usual tourist shops, or don't ask to check out anything rare. Getting hands on with an Abasi guitars was my biggest miss, where it was like 50/50 if a shop would let me play one. 

On the flip side, a shop guy in Ochanomizu let me privately demo one of the PRS PS modern eagle Vs that was like $13k, even when I said there was no way I would buy it and I was just curious about the switching system. It's a very YMMV situation, but I feel like I'm just not used to any uncertainty in getting to try out anything in the US that's not like a 50s LP they have around the shop just for advertisement.


----------



## D-EJ915

soul_lip_mike said:


> Didn’t axe palace nick say it was possible to get any Japan only models if requested? Is there a catalog of these models to peruse?


As long as it isn't one of the copyright models.


----------



## soul_lip_mike

Now to try to read the .jp esp guitars site!


----------



## maximummetal288

Looks like they're doing a re-issue of the LTD PH-600.


https://www.pagehamiltonmusic.com/signature-guitar

Interesting how it's kind of off the radar and done through Page's website. I'm a big Helmet fan boy so I'll probably pick one up.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

maximummetal288 said:


> Looks like they're doing a re-issue of the LTD PH-600.
> 
> 
> https://www.pagehamiltonmusic.com/signature-guitar
> 
> Interesting how it's kind of off the radar and done through Page's website. I'm a big Helmet fan boy so I'll probably pick one up.



hypeeeeed


----------



## cardinal

Pretty sure that many years ago I left a Helmet concert with a concussion. Those were the days...(?).


----------



## MaxOfMetal

The relic'ing just looks _awful_.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Do they realize how fucking badass that guitar would look without the relicing and the holes filled?


----------



## JD27

The relic is not great, but I’d still love one. Seems to be a Sammy Duet’ish signature release plan... Probably real limited numbers in a single run. Estimates say 5-6 months, they probably need to secure a minimum number of orders to start the run.


----------



## soul_lip_mike

How do you switch pickups without a switch? Pull pot?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

soul_lip_mike said:


> How do you switch pickups without a switch? Pull pot?



There is only one pickup.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

soul_lip_mike said:


> How do you switch pickups without a switch? Pull pot?



There's no neck pickup. They screwed in a trem spring because.... because.


----------



## soul_lip_mike

MaxOfMetal said:


> There is only one pickup.



ahh I missed that. Was watching on my phone.


----------



## mbardu

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> There's no neck pickup. *They screwed in a trem spring* because.... because.


----------



## mbardu

MaxOfMetal said:


> The relic'ing just looks _awful_.



Yeah. Plus, not sure what was wrong about the old finish.
It was actually kinda awesome.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

mbardu said:


>


----------



## mbardu

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


>



Oh I saw. 
Still though...


----------



## Mathemagician

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> There's no neck pickup. They screwed in a trem spring because.... because.





mbardu said:


>





HeHasTheJazzHands said:


>




Spring reverb.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Everyone wants to be Van Halen.


----------



## stinkoman

They are doing a re-issue of the LTD
Page Hamilton model in magenta. I’m a huge Helmet fan and loved his guitar, but I’m on the fence in placing an order because the relic finish looks bad to me, and I like relic finishes normally.

edit, I completely missed this was already mentioned I was two pages off .


----------



## Steinmetzify

Man I wish they were doing the silver one. 

I actually like relics but that is BAD.


----------



## Wuuthrad

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> There's no neck pickup. They screwed in a trem spring because.... because.



It’s a gag- his tech put it in there and he tells people it’s a “spring reverb.”

Given that he actually plays the real trem-springs for sound FX, it’s a pretty clever gag!


----------



## Mathemagician

Wuuthrad said:


> It’s a gag- his tech put it in there and he tells people it’s a “spring reverb.”
> 
> Given that he actually plays the real trem-springs for sound FX, it’s a pretty clever gag!



Are you fucking with me right now? I was just saying the first stupid thing that came to me. I was right? Lmao. Awesome.


----------



## Wuuthrad

Mathemagician said:


> Are you fucking with me right now? I was just saying the first stupid thing that came to me. I was right? Lmao. Awesome.



lol no I was not kidding you! I did watch this video through where he explained it, but I remember reading about it awhile back. 

It’s based off his guitar from the late 80s early 90s with Helmet, which I was a big fan of. 

Page Hamilton is a really cool down to earth guy, and his rig rundowns etc. are a good watch. 

Of course Helmet’s pretty good too!


----------



## feraledge

They did this relic a few years ago and it’s just an iconic guitar of his, even if the fan base is smaller. Is everyone really this shocked about it?


----------



## Wuuthrad

feraledge said:


> They did this relic a few years ago and it’s just an iconic guitar of his, even if the fan base is smaller. Is everyone really this shocked about it?



Relic hate is real- I hate relics! I appreciate that people like them and that it’s a unique skill, but seriously? It’s like a used car that costs more than new! 

Cool guitar though, they’ll probably have enough of em in shops worldwide all Page has to do is show up and grab one on his upcoming County Fair tours!


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

feraledge said:


> They did this relic a few years ago and it’s just an iconic guitar of his, even if the fan base is smaller. Is everyone really this shocked about it?



Because I honestly would preferred a brushed silver PH600 reissue.


----------



## feraledge

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Because I honestly would preferred a brushed silver PH600 reissue.


I can’t disagree with that.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

feraledge said:


> I can’t disagree with that.



Honestly? Do a hybrid sig. Gimme the '80s horizon aesthetic and specs but give it the brushed aluminum finish.


----------



## works0fheart

6th pic in. Looks like we might be getting a Black and Red Alexi model soon.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CMAEs6fDXbB/?igshid=j4u5atzzvzg6


----------



## feraledge

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Honestly? Do a hybrid sig. Gimme the '80s horizon aesthetic and specs but give it the brushed aluminum finish.


That’s the one.


----------



## soul_lip_mike

The esp guitars Japan Instagram has been posting some absolutely bonkers exhibition pieces. Mother of god.


----------



## narad

Too bonkers for me. I like my guitars with less than a dozen colors and patterns on them.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

The Exhibition stuff is just so gaudy. For those prices you can get something crazy looking and genuinely special/unique that's not going to look like something that belongs in the weird/unfortunate guitar thread or on eBay as an Antonasi Inlay special.


----------



## Mathemagician

If the exhibition piece isn’t an actual Angel, then it’s not exhibition enough. #bring back the early ‘00’s


----------



## Dumple Stilzkin

They look like Jeff Kiesel’s wet dream manifested into being.


----------



## Zado

Plot twist: they sound meh.


----------



## feraledge

The exhibition models are meant to be over the top. I’ve always enjoyed the videos of their making over the end products really. They are genuinely masterful luthiers and their ability to handle building each part with ease is impressive.
But remember they’re in Japan and the Japanese market sets a really high bar for doing some over the top guitars. A number of them can end up stateside, but I don’t think their goal is necessarily going head-to-head with PRS top tier.
That said, they do that well too:


----------



## TedEH

^ I can't decide if I really like it or really dislike it.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

feraledge said:


> The exhibition models are meant to be over the top. I’ve always enjoyed the videos of their making over the end products really. They are genuinely masterful luthiers and their ability to handle building each part with ease is impressive.
> But remember they’re in Japan and the Japanese market sets a really high bar for doing some over the top guitars. A number of them can end up stateside, but I don’t think their goal is necessarily going head-to-head with PRS top tier.
> That said, they do that well too:
> View attachment 91423



I'm just pretty cynical when it comes to this stuff. I don't see any exceptionally artful luthiery craft looking at that. 

I'm sure the quality of the work is beyond reproach, I'm not questioning that at all.


----------



## soul_lip_mike

feraledge said:


> The exhibition models are meant to be over the top. I’ve always enjoyed the videos of their making over the end products really. They are genuinely masterful luthiers and their ability to handle building each part with ease is impressive.
> But remember they’re in Japan and the Japanese market sets a really high bar for doing some over the top guitars. A number of them can end up stateside, but I don’t think their goal is necessarily going head-to-head with PRS top tier.
> That said, they do that well too:
> View attachment 91423



That eclipse is so amazing IMHO (I'm a sucker for ocean-like blue quilt finishes). Does anybody know how the controls might be configured? I see standard LP-location pickup switch and the other one is ....?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

soul_lip_mike said:


> That eclipse is so amazing IMHO (I'm a sucker for ocean-like blue quilt finishes). Does anybody know how the controls might be configured? I see standard LP-location pickup switch and the other one is ....?



I've seen some guitars it acts like a coil split. Not sure what it does for the EMG loaded guitars. Probably a killswitch.


----------



## narad

There were a few I thought were actually bordering on being tastefully done. Usually just a swap of one spec would move it into something I'd actually buy.


----------



## Masoo2

Like always there are some absolutely bonkers tops and fretboards, but for some reason there isn't a single exhibition this year that I look at and think "man, I'd actually like to own that." They all have something pretty major off with them imo.

Regardless, these have some interesting design choices:





The flame on that board jesus... though I'm not so sure how I feel about the transition from the blue spalt maple(?) core to the brown fade flame





Really curious as to what they're actually doing with this, is it like woodburned/etched in or just printed out and then finished over?




I really want to like this for it's separate elements (body, neck, inlay work) but when all mashed together it kinda falls flat, shame because I think with some refinement (notably toning down the fretboard and headstock) I'd be a really nice piece. Maybe a little pink/pomegranate towards the end of the fade would make things pop




Did all of the past exhibition hexagon models have a sort of swirly resin(?) within the body or is that new? Fretboard wood color isn't helping either, nor the mix of black and chrome hardware

Also _major_ overuse of the brushed/worn chrome custom hardware this year, not everything needs to look like James Trussart dropped by the shop to help out


----------



## narad

Masoo2 said:


> Like always there are some absolutely bonkers tops and fretboards, but for some reason there isn't a single exhibition this year that I look at and think "man, I'd actually like to own that." They all have something pretty major off with them imo.
> 
> Regardless, these have some interesting design choices:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The flame on that board jesus... though I'm not so sure how I feel about the transition from the blue spalt maple(?) core to the brown fade flame
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really curious as to what they're actually doing with this, is it like woodburned/etched in or just printed out and then finished over?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I really want to like this for it's separate elements (body, neck, inlay work) but when all mashed together it kinda falls flat, shame because I think with some refinement (notably toning down the fretboard and headstock) I'd be a really nice piece. Maybe a little pink/pomegranate towards the end of the fade would make things pop
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did all of the past exhibition hexagon models have a sort of swirly resin(?) within the body or is that new? Fretboard wood color isn't helping either, nor the mix of black and chrome hardware
> 
> Also _major_ overuse of the brushed/worn chrome custom hardware this year, not everything needs to look like James Trussart dropped by the shop to help out



The past hexagon models weren't all swirly resin -- two of the first used gold paint and were really cool, but they've been moving in the epoxy direction the past couple of exhibitions.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Masoo2 said:


> Also _major_ overuse of the brushed/worn chrome custom hardware this year, not everything needs to look like James Trussart dropped by the shop to help out


----------



## Hollowway

I’m not a huge fan of the exhibition type models, but I will say the Shinigami they did years ago was one of the coolest things I’d ever seen, and I still love it. That was as cool as the J Frog Mom for me.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Hollowway said:


> I’m not a huge fan of the exhibition type models, but I will say the Shinigami they did years ago was one of the coolest things I’d ever seen, and I still love it. That was as cool as the J Frog Mom for me.



Yeah, stuff like that was at least interesting and unique. 

These plastic top guitars are just so overdone now.


----------



## Hollowway

MaxOfMetal said:


> Yeah, stuff like that was at least interesting and unique.
> 
> These plastic top guitars are just so overdone now.



Agreed. Maybe we’re in a bubble, and have had our retinas burned out by the Kiesels over the last few years, but I don’t find the mash ups of woods and colors even remotely interesting. If anything, it’s pushing me the opposite direction - I’m loving the minimalistic concepts Jens Ritter is doing these days, for instance.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Hollowway said:


> Agreed. Maybe we’re in a bubble, and have had our retinas burned out by the Kiesels over the last few years, but I don’t find the mash ups of woods and colors even remotely interesting. If anything, it’s pushing me the opposite direction - I’m loving the minimalistic concepts Jens Ritter is doing these days, for instance.



Yeah, Ritter has been, and probably always will be, the master of this sort of ultra limited, ultra aesthetic one-offs. The dude has a great eye for the "it" factor on things like this. 

These do feel like Kiesels, which is probably the worst thing you could say. Not knocking on Kiesel, they know that thier weird color and resin builds are just fucking around. It's like ESP took a joke seriously for what, the third year in a row?


----------



## narad

MaxOfMetal said:


> Yeah, Ritter has been, and probably always will be, the master of this sort of ultra limited, ultra aesthetic one-offs. The dude has a great eye for the "it" factor on things like this.
> 
> These do feel like Kiesels, which is probably the worst thing you could say. Not knocking on Kiesel, they know that thier weird color and resin builds are just fucking around. It's like ESP took a joke seriously for what, the third year in a row?



Have you seen the reactions to those resin spot models in the other ESP thread though? People are digging them. Meanwhile I just saw a set of 3 Harry Potter themed Aristides, with a lot of likes. And @StevenC reminded me of this build the other day:






Which begs the question, did the terrorists win?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

narad said:


> Have you seen the reactions to those resin spot models in the other ESP thread though?



I wouldn't know. I don't negotiate with terrorists.

Though, I tend to give customer builds a pass, this comic comes to mind:


----------



## mlp187

I actually love these builds, but I absolutely hate the in-house hardware. It looks cheap to me, and ruins what would otherwise be a dreamy guitar in my book. The pricing is ridiculous, even if it is to be expected.

This one and the purple one are my favorite:


----------



## MaxOfMetal

mlp187 said:


> I actually love these builds, but I absolutely hate the in-house hardware. It looks cheap to me, and ruins what would otherwise be a dreamy guitar in my book. The pricing is ridiculous, even if it is to be expected.



I haven't even looked at pricing on these. Based on last year's, I'm guessing about $16k?


----------



## mlp187

Yeah, $16-$18k


----------



## narad

These things are already super played out in the DIY furniture world:


----------



## Zado

I find em artistically pleasing, very fancy looking, but as objects I'd hang on the wall like I'd do with a portrait or something of that sort. Make no sense as guitars.


----------



## Millul

I find them to be really...fatiguing? to the eyes, for lack of a better term? To busy.
The one posted by mlp187 is the one I like the best, even if i think a darker/no inlay fretboard would serve it better...but alas, I'll never be the taret audience for these.


----------



## works0fheart

I actually really like their expedition stuff. Would I ever play it? No, probably not, but I can certainly say that if I were going to have a guitar built I'd be hard-pressed to not go to them or Jackson. 

Looking to maybe do just that by the end of the year, but haven't decided on which yet.


----------



## Seabeast2000

Retvrn to Quilt Maple.


----------



## Dumple Stilzkin

narad said:


> Have you seen the reactions to those resin spot models in the other ESP thread though? People are digging them. Meanwhile I just saw a set of 3 Harry Potter themed Aristides, with a lot of likes. And @StevenC reminded me of this build the other day:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which begs the question, did the terrorists win?


Please, someone explain this to me.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Dumple Stilzkin said:


> Please, someone explain this to me.



Get ready to lose a bunch of brain cells: https://meme.fandom.com/wiki/Dolan_duk


----------



## Masoo2

Dumple Stilzkin said:


> Please, someone explain this to me.


Meme context was already given but the guitar is a Skervesen ordered by Billy from Ever Forthright

Here's the guitar in action:


----------



## Marked Man

Masoo2 said:


> Like always there are some absolutely bonkers tops and fretboards, but for some reason there isn't a single exhibition this year that I look at and think "man, I'd actually like to own that." They all have something pretty major off with them imo.
> 
> Regardless, these have some interesting design choices:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The flame on that board jesus... though I'm not so sure how I feel about the transition from the blue spalt maple(?) core to the brown fade flame
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really curious as to what they're actually doing with this, is it like woodburned/etched in or just printed out and then finished over?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I really want to like this for it's separate elements (body, neck, inlay work) but when all mashed together it kinda falls flat, shame because I think with some refinement (notably toning down the fretboard and headstock) I'd be a really nice piece. Maybe a little pink/pomegranate towards the end of the fade would make things pop
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did all of the past exhibition hexagon models have a sort of swirly resin(?) within the body or is that new? Fretboard wood color isn't helping either, nor the mix of black and chrome hardware
> 
> Also _major_ overuse of the brushed/worn chrome custom hardware this year, not everything needs to look like James Trussart dropped by the shop to help out




Maybe I'm just a relic of the 20th Century, but I don't get any of these!


----------



## Flappydoodle

Maybe I’m just out of the loop, haven’t looked enough Kiesels or whatever (or maybe just bad taste), but I think most of those exhibition ESPs look fucking awesome. The hexagon one especially. Love the flame maple and the blue contrast. 

Would I want to own them all? No. But I guess that’s not the point. I guess the point is to build unique guitars which demonstrate the craftsmanship, and somebody somewhere will think it’s totally perfect and buy it.


----------



## John

Flappydoodle said:


> Maybe I’m just out of the loop, haven’t looked enough Kiesels or whatever (or maybe just bad taste), but I think most of those exhibition ESPs look fucking awesome. The hexagon one especially. Love the flame maple and the blue contrast.
> 
> Would I want to own them all? No. But I guess that’s not the point. I guess the point is to build unique guitars which demonstrate the craftsmanship, and somebody somewhere will think it’s totally perfect and buy it.




Agreed, even though I have my own preferences for an Eclipse or a V for example, I can appreciate the level of craftsmanship and variety that's gone down with such guitars.






If anything, I'd welcome these over something like Gibson making over 9,000 of the same clown burst guitars in a row for the sake of being tRaDiTiOnAL on the flipside.


----------



## mikernaut

ESP can do some crazy stuff but this to me is just more "Hey Jeff Kiesel, we see you and we raise you this gaudiness!"


----------



## groverj3

mlp187 said:


> I actually love these builds, but I absolutely hate the in-house hardware. It looks cheap to me, and ruins what would otherwise be a dreamy guitar in my book. The pricing is ridiculous, even if it is to be expected.
> 
> This one and the purple one are my favorite:
> View attachment 91432


This one is awesome.

I hate literally all of the others.


----------



## Marked Man

mikernaut said:


> ESP can do some crazy stuff but this to me is just more "Hey Jeff Kiesel, we see you and we raise you this gaudiness!"



g̶a̶u̶d̶i̶n̶e̶s̶s̶ tastelessness....


----------



## Marked Man

mikernaut said:


> ESP can do some crazy stuff but this to me is just more "Hey Jeff Kiesel, we see you and we raise you this gaudiness!"



I have one universal rule:

Other than inlays, fretboards should appear has natural wood. NOT denim (!) or plastic or anything else. If a guitar has that, it is an automatic failure to me and can't recover.


----------



## soul_lip_mike

mikernaut said:


> ESP can do some crazy stuff but this to me is just more "Hey Jeff Kiesel, we see you and we raise you this gaudiness!"



Serious question - would someone that works in the ESP custom shop care about Kiesel? Isn't Kiesel just another middle tier brand that is not part of the big leagues?


----------



## Rotatous

I've pretty much been ignoring the exhibition series since they started doing them.


----------



## groverj3

soul_lip_mike said:


> Serious question - would someone that works in the ESP custom shop care about Kiesel? Isn't Kiesel just another middle tier brand that is not part of the big leagues?


Personally, I always thought before Jeff Kiesel came into the picture that Carvin was a pretty well-regarded company and their lack of high profile users was mostly a consequence of their business model. Rather than being related to the quality they can put out.

However, Jeff Kiesel is a tool and has since turned me off completely.


----------



## bigcupholder

narad said:


> There were a few I thought were actually bordering on being tastefully done. Usually just a swap of one spec would move it into something I'd actually buy.


That bass is amazing, both the shape and finish. I'm not really a bass player, so I haven't gotten used to vintage-inspired designs like I have for guitars. 

It looks like it grew in a magical forest.


----------



## josh1

I love this one


----------



## Masoo2

josh1 said:


> I love this one


It's like cotton candy in guitar-form, really interesting mix of colors. The brown works somehow better than I expected, I'm normally not a fan of brown paired with pink (or yellow for that matter). That being said, this guitar would look so much better without the huge black line and small quilt corner.

100x worse than a Kiesel bevel. It looks like they just gave up halfway through and said "nope, we're done." 

I understand that it's likely due to the top not withstanding a bend for the arm contour, but at that point shouldn't you just get rid of the top altogether or save it for a flat build? This sort of compromise just falls completely flat imo.


----------



## mbardu

josh1 said:


> I love this one





MaxOfMetal said:


> These do feel like Kiesels, which is probably the worst thing you could say. Not knocking on Kiesel, they know that thier weird color and resin builds are just fucking around. It's like ESP took a joke seriously for what, the third year in a row?


----------



## landmvrks

I hate how ESP always release the best looking guitars with specs I'm not interested in. When are they going to give me a 27" scale without it being completely matte black (finish wears terribly over time) or some ugly sparkly color?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

landmvrks said:


> I hate how ESP always release the best looking guitars with specs I'm not interested in. When are they going to give me a 27" scale without it being completely matte black (finish wears terribly over time) or some ugly sparkly color?



The M-II 7B comes in pearl white now.


----------



## landmvrks

MaxOfMetal said:


> The M-II 7B comes in pearl white now.



Yeah I saw that. How does this appear in real life? Online it looks kinda silvery, which I'm not a fan of.


----------



## works0fheart

Maybe it's just me but I feel like people here are hating on that showcase line a little too much?

They're Japanese guitars and while they don't really fit what we're into over here, wild colors and over-the-top stuff like that is accepted and adored over there.

Second, they're literally meant to showcase their custom shop abilities. A guitar luthier flexing their creative muscles so to speak.

I agree, they're a bit much for me too but they're really just there for sake of showing off and garnering interest in having something built.

Like, they've been making weird shit for years now. These are actually pretty tame compared to things like this












:EDIT: Holy shit this thing is going for 100k

https://www.davisguitar.com/ESP-Custom-Shop-Shinobi


----------



## MaxOfMetal

landmvrks said:


> Yeah I saw that. How does this appear in real life? Online it looks kinda silvery, which I'm not a fan of.



The Eclipse I played in the same color just seemed like plain pearl white. 



works0fheart said:


> They're Japanese guitars and while they don't really fit what we're into over here, wild colors and over-the-top stuff like that is accepted and adored over there.



They're being marketed and sold globally.



> Second, they're literally meant to showcase their custom shop abilities. A guitar luthier flexing their creative muscles so to speak.



As someone who knows how the sausage is made, these are wholly unimpressive.



> I agree, they're a bit much for me too but they're really just there for sake of showing off and garnering interest in having something built.



They're certainly getting a reaction. 



> Like, they've been making weird shit for years now. These are actually pretty tame compared to things like this



As has been brought up, this stuff is actually cool. Slapping a plastic top and painting it "aggressively" does not impressive luthiery make.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Yeah for exhibition stuff the last couple years have been relatively tame comparatively. I want more tacky but awesome builds like the Ghost Soldier and the Shinobi. Or some other insane stuff like the blood painting Holt eclipse.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

KnightBrolaire said:


> Yeah for exhibition stuff the last couple years have been relatively tame comparatively. I want more tacky but awesome builds like the Ghost Soldier and the Shinobi. Or some other insane stuff like the blood painting Holt eclipse.



Yeah, that stuff was fucking awesome.


----------



## Musiscience

works0fheart said:


> :EDIT: Holy shit this thing is going for 100k
> 
> https://www.davisguitar.com/ESP-Custom-Shop-Shinobi



Would buy if it had a floyd. Does it have SS frets?


----------



## bigcupholder

landmvrks said:


> I hate how ESP always release the best looking guitars with specs I'm not interested in. When are they going to give me a 27" scale without it being completely matte black (finish wears terribly over time) or some ugly sparkly color?


I have a matte black eclipse (standard series) that's 13 years old and it looks brand new aside from a nice ding on the back edge by a previous owner. Other companies struggle to make a durable matte black finish but I have no complaints with my ESP. There's no spots that are semi glossed. It's still totally uniform. I'm not sure what they do differently.


----------



## Wuuthrad

works0fheart said:


> Maybe it's just me but I feel like people here are hating on that showcase line a little too much?
> 
> They're Japanese guitars and while they don't really fit what we're into over here, wild colors and over-the-top stuff like that is accepted and adored over there.
> 
> Second, they're literally meant to showcase their custom shop abilities. A guitar luthier flexing their creative muscles so to speak.
> 
> I agree, they're a bit much for me too but they're really just there for sake of showing off and garnering interest in having something built.
> 
> Like, they've been making weird shit for years now. These are actually pretty tame compared to things like this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :EDIT: Holy shit this thing is going for 100k
> 
> https://www.davisguitar.com/ESP-Custom-Shop-Shinobi




I don’t hate them. I also don’t really like most of them, but there are a couple that look kind of cool. Some look like an idea from a randomly generated computer graphics image. No actually that’s too kind, they look like gilded cut and past JPEG clip-art. The nicer ones look like someone pressed the fractal filter a few too many times. Overall, not really very interesting design concepts, visually unappealing, and kind of bland compared to some past guitars, especially the one you posted, which looks awesome!

Of course I’m biased as I prefer less obtuse designs, and unless you’re going for it- then really go for it. Don’t just splash paint around and call it art, or do a sort of Andy Warhol mock up of materials at the home improvement center.

That being said, I have no idea what I’m taking about- I play guitars, I don’t build them. I certainly don’t hang them on the wall as Art either!


----------



## narad

works0fheart said:


> They're Japanese guitars and while they don't really fit what we're into over here, wild colors and over-the-top stuff like that is accepted and adored over there.



Ehhhhh. Mostly Fender Custom Shop and Jim Tyler is adored over here. I'll concede that Jim Tyler is pretty wild a lot of the time.


----------



## Seabeast2000

Musiscience said:


> Would buy if it had a floyd. Does it have SS frets?



pLAY aUTHEnTIC.


----------



## landmvrks

bigcupholder said:


> I have a matte black eclipse (standard series) that's 13 years old and it looks brand new aside from a nice ding on the back edge by a previous owner. Other companies struggle to make a durable matte black finish but I have no complaints with my ESP. There's no spots that are semi glossed. It's still totally uniform. I'm not sure what they do differently.


Interesting. I wonder if LTD are the same, because I've been interested in this one:

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/LM7BHTBKMBS--esp-ltd-m-7-ht-baritone-black-metal-black-satin

Issue is I'm worried it'll wear and look like ass.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

landmvrks said:


> Interesting. I wonder if LTD are the same, because I've been interested in this one:
> 
> https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/LM7BHTBKMBS--esp-ltd-m-7-ht-baritone-black-metal-black-satin
> 
> Issue is I'm worried it'll wear and look like ass.



I have a six year old EC1000VB that has glossed up in parts. Not tons, but enough from regular wear.


----------



## landmvrks

MaxOfMetal said:


> I have a six year old EC1000VB that has glossed up in parts. Not tons, but enough from regular wear.


Damn. Yeah that's what I'm worried about. I guess it's a relatively cheap guitar, so it's not the biggest deal, but I'm anal about my stuff and it would bother me. Not to mention hurt the resale value.


----------



## landmvrks

This is honestly one of the best looking production guitars out there IMO. I'd probably replace the pickups with non covered ones (bit flashy for me):

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/de...i-m-ii-7-nt-7-string-dark-brown-natural-burst

Shame it's not 26.5, because I really want that extra length for drop tunings. Think a 25.5 for drop A and drop G# would work well without having to go too thick on strings?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

landmvrks said:


> Damn. Yeah that's what I'm worried about. I guess it's a relatively cheap guitar, so it's not the biggest deal, but I'm anal about my stuff and it would bother me. Not to mention hurt the resale value.



You could always just hit it with some 1k grit to knock down the gloss.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

I want more of this kind of stuff:


----------



## BornToLooze

Didn't ESP make a light up stained glass guitar before?


----------



## RobDobble6S7

landmvrks said:


> This is honestly one of the best looking production guitars out there IMO. I'd probably replace the pickups with non covered ones (bit flashy for me):
> 
> https://www.sweetwater.com/store/de...i-m-ii-7-nt-7-string-dark-brown-natural-burst
> 
> Shame it's not 26.5, because I really want that extra length for drop tunings. Think a 25.5 for drop A and drop G# would work well without having to go too thick on strings?


What's confusing about that one to me is they went specifically "let's keep the back of the body satin, but gloss the neck!" which is something that a lot of players don't like...kind of ruins my GAS for it personally


----------



## Tuned

Masoo2 said:


> Meme context was already given but the guitar is a Skervesen ordered by Billy from Ever Forthright
> 
> Here's the guitar in action:



that clockwork gears inlay is actually not uninteresting, the other one is... well, it lets you know this kid is a kid.



Marked Man said:


> Maybe I'm just a relic of the 20th Century, but I don't get any of these!


 no, we're not relics, we're classics


----------



## RobDobble6S7

That duck inlay is far beyond zoomer territory at this point lmao


----------



## MaxOfMetal

RobDobble6S7 said:


> What's confusing about that one to me is they went specifically "let's keep the back of the body satin, but gloss the neck!" which is something that a lot of players don't like...kind of ruins my GAS for it personally



I think that's just Sweetwater's pics. Other photos online make it look like the neck is satin.


----------



## Hollowway

KnightBrolaire said:


> I want more of this kind of stuff:
> View attachment 91531


I hadn’t seen that one before. That’s pretty badass! These type of builds were always such an inspiration to me.


----------



## xzacx

landmvrks said:


> Shame it's not 26.5, because I really want that extra length for drop tunings. Think a 25.5 for drop A and drop G# would work well without having to go too thick on strings?



I use a 25.5 for G# standard with a 64 on the low string and it works out perfect for me. Personal preferences and all that, but it's doable for sure. I'd probably prefer something slightly lighter (maybe like a 60 or 62), but I'm not really one to piece sets together, so the standard 11-64 set works for me if I'm tuning 1.5 steps down.


----------



## soul_lip_mike

I don't get why they go with the BKP fake relic covers. Argh.


----------



## landmvrks

O


MaxOfMetal said:


> I think that's just Sweetwater's pics. Other photos online make it look like the neck is satin.
> 
> 
> View attachment 91536


Oh nice. In some photos it appears brownish, in others it appears black. Anyone know what it actually is?


----------



## macky

Masoo2 said:


> Like always there are some absolutely bonkers tops and fretboards, but for some reason there isn't a single exhibition this year that I look at and think "man, I'd actually like to own that." They all have something pretty major off with them imo.
> 
> Regardless, these have some interesting design choices:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The flame on that board jesus... though I'm not so sure how I feel about the transition from the blue spalt maple(?) core to the brown fade flame


I uhhh...know where that's heading once it lands stateside next month. Too early for a NGD thread but uhh, yeah. The demo videos sold me on the finish because that's where you can see the detail & finish depth on the fingerboard - on par with my PRS Private Stock finishes but with vastly better fretwork. ESP Arrow is my favorite pointy guitar.


----------



## macky

mlp187 said:


> I actually love these builds, but I absolutely hate the in-house hardware. It looks cheap to me, and ruins what would otherwise be a dreamy guitar in my book. The pricing is ridiculous, even if it is to be expected.
> 
> This one and the purple one are my favorite:
> View attachment 91432


I called the shop selling the purple version of this one which IMHO has a wilder "space" finish, but couldn't reach an agreement on price. Turned out to be a blessing in disguise.


----------



## Masoo2

macky said:


> I uhhh...know where that's heading once it lands stateside next month. Too early for a NGD thread but uhh, yeah. The demo videos sold me on the finish because that's where you can see the detail & finish depth on the fingerboard - on par with my PRS Private Stock finishes but with vastly better fretwork. ESP Arrow is my favorite pointy guitar.


Gotta say, the demo video they posted to the ESP USA channel makes it actually look pretty sick.


(anyone know the song name?)

Definitely alleviated some of the qualms I had about the blue + brown combo.

Good looking dude, make sure to take some good pics of it for us.


----------



## macky

Masoo2 said:


> Gotta say, the demo video they posted to the ESP USA channel makes it actually look pretty sick.
> 
> 
> (anyone know the song name?)
> 
> Definitely alleviated some of the qualms I had about the blue + brown combo.
> 
> Good looking dude, make sure to take some good pics of it for us.



Thanks dude! Found a closeup of the fretboard at 36s in a diff video:


If y'all want to see live demos of the other exhibition limiteds this year, ESPGuitarsJP did a live Youtube stream where their awesome demo guy plays much of the range. The stream was Saturday:

Killer vid but you'll want to skip the first few minutes of bowing and chit-chat before you get a tour of all their woods. My favorite there was Kurogaki, a Japanese black persimmon wood used in 1-2 of the guitars and basses this year.

edit: seems ESPGuitarsJP edited out the woods tour and reposted the vid right from where the guitar playing starts.


----------



## Mathemagician

macky said:


> I uhhh...know where that's heading once it lands stateside next month. Too early for a NGD thread but uhh, yeah. The demo videos sold me on the finish because that's where you can see the detail & finish depth on the fingerboard - on par with my PRS Private Stock finishes but with vastly better fretwork. ESP Arrow is my favorite pointy guitar.



This is now the “Lagoon” finish. Or Land & Sea. Or whatever the actual name is from ESP. But I like Land & Sea best.


----------



## soul_lip_mike

https://chondroguitars.com/esp-exhibition-2021-ex21-15-arrow-ctm-nt/

$15,999 list


----------



## Flappydoodle

macky said:


> Thanks dude! Found a closeup of the fretboard at 36s in a diff video:
> 
> 
> If y'all want to see live demos of the other exhibition limiteds this year, ESPGuitarsJP did a live Youtube stream where their awesome demo guy plays much of the range. The stream was Saturday:
> 
> Killer vid but you'll want to skip the first few minutes of bowing and chit-chat before you get a tour of all their woods. My favorite there was Kurogaki, a Japanese black persimmon wood used in 1-2 of the guitars and basses this year.
> 
> edit: seems ESPGuitarsJP edited out the woods tour and reposted the vid right from where the guitar playing starts.




Jesus, that fretboard and fretwork is so perfect it looks like CGI or a render, hahaha


----------



## macky

This one also makes me want to "fill the cup" so to speak.


----------



## macky

macky said:


> This one also makes me want to "fill the cup" so to speak.


Thoughts/prayers/well-wishes whatever works for you would be appreciated. Might have finally worked out a deal for this unicorn too. We shall see.


----------



## RobDobble6S7

Thoughts, prayers, and well wishes. Hope everything goes well!


----------



## macky

soul_lip_mike said:


> https://chondroguitars.com/esp-exhibition-2021-ex21-15-arrow-ctm-nt/
> 
> $15,999 list


If you're professional about the deal from the start (polite, chill, nothing bothers you, willing to walk away without drama) then everyone is willing to work with you on a mutually-agreeable number below list. I will not elaborate on that. It really depends on how good/bad of a buy the dealer got in the first place that they have to make profit on, and you see a lot variance. The standouts in my mind are the exhibition limiteds I've bought from Axe Palace, Studio Gears and Chondro (in no particular order), because they are all first class folks to work with.


----------



## macky

The Youtube translation is glorious:
"I introduced it when I was a snapper, but it's stabilized"
'The back side is this nice holly Corina's pretty wipe, but it's springy and Pauly"
"The muff says something like this"
"It's hard to find this thin stripe in the mansion"
"If binding and finding are limited, there are also two slush funds"


----------



## Hollowway

macky said:


> then everyone is willing to work with you on a mutually-agreeable number below list.



Are you at liberty to say how much below list this mutually agreeable number might be? When I’m trying so swing a normal guitar, I’m lucky to get 15-20% off (as that tends to be the coupon amount for big store sales on production items) but I can’t imagine much below that for a hot ticket item like these things. I was guessing that there’d be very little wiggle room. In other words, I assumed that the prices most of these are listed at aren’t the actual “list” (aka MSRP) prices, but street prices. But maybe I’m wrong.


----------



## feraledge

Hollowway said:


> Are you at liberty to say how much below list this mutually agreeable number might be? When I’m trying so swing a normal guitar, I’m lucky to get 15-20% off (as that tends to be the coupon amount for big store sales on production items) but I can’t imagine much below that for a hot ticket item like these things. I was guessing that there’d be very little wiggle room. In other words, I assumed that the prices most of these are listed at aren’t the actual “list” (aka MSRP) prices, but street prices. But maybe I’m wrong.


I mean 20% off in this case is $3,200 off the bat. 
I don't have actuals, but I'm assuming the margin for guitars is probably 40% in general. The dealers that get the exhibition models aren't necessarily waiting for them to sell as much as probably using the exhibition models as a means of showing they have a good relationship with ESP and probably attracting some more custom shop orders. 
I'm totally making a guess on that, but while no one is necessarily saying the numbers they are actually paying for exhibition models, it seems like a few years ago the actual amount being paid was typically around $6-7k, so more like decently spec'ed custom order than a showcase price. The room for budging is exceptional here just cause the price tag is so high. Otherwise, it's likely they'll have these guitars just sitting around for years. 
If there's a trend that I can see, it's that dealers don't seem to mind having these guitars sit on display for a couple years and then they're willing to make big deals to move them along. There was someone on here a few years ago that went to buy one exhibition guitar and I think ended up getting two because of some crazy deal.


----------



## feraledge

Sweet.


----------



## JD27

Sick! What are those?


----------



## MFB

*insert Adam Sandlers "I'm gonna cum" meme here*

That white one should be illegal


----------



## macky

feraledge said:


> I mean 20% off in this case is $3,200 off the bat.
> I don't have actuals, but I'm assuming the margin for guitars is probably 40% in general. The dealers that get the exhibition models aren't necessarily waiting for them to sell as much as probably using the exhibition models as a means of showing they have a good relationship with ESP and probably attracting some more custom shop orders.
> I'm totally making a guess on that, but while no one is necessarily saying the numbers they are actually paying for exhibition models, it seems like a few years ago the actual amount being paid was typically around $6-7k, so more like decently spec'ed custom order than a showcase price. The room for budging is exceptional here just cause the price tag is so high. Otherwise, it's likely they'll have these guitars just sitting around for years.
> If there's a trend that I can see, it's that dealers don't seem to mind having these guitars sit on display for a couple years and then they're willing to make big deals to move them along. There was someone on here a few years ago that went to buy one exhibition guitar and I think ended up getting two because of some crazy deal.



Good points! I presume dealer cost has been ramping up past few yrs so making the same margin % has to push the prices up. ESP seems to push dealers to list all their exhibition limiteds at slightly diff prices, so who knows what margin really is for one vs the other. That's why I mentioned the variance between what shops are willing to do.

On a side note: for a PRS Private Stock, you can bid 20% off ask all day and get free shipping thrown in. Bigger liquidity pool of buyers there so you can move more volume if the profit margin is not as big. It also speaks to your point about ~40% margin likely being the norm, otherwise PRS dealers couldn't justify buying those guitars, holding for a year on average, and then only making 5-10%.

Selling high-end guitars seems to be a better deal business-wise than exotic cars - the best margin I've seen there is 25% profit for a base Lamborghini Huracan. For an Aventador SV optioned to the hilt, depending on how bad the factory screwed the shop, the margin could be 5%. That's why new models come out all the time - you have to sell your year-old underwater new cars at a loss to make it up on the next crazy car to come along with 20% margin.


----------



## macky

MFB said:


> *insert Adam Sandlers "I'm gonna cum" meme here*
> 
> That white one should be illegal


Speaking of cumming...deposit secured!


----------



## MFB

What even is that type of top? I've never seen anything like it unless it's just some super specific piece of burl that they dyed with black/purple/blues; and same for the bridge? Never seen ESP use anything like that, but it's vaguely Gibraltar-ish.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

MFB said:


> What even is that type of top? I've never seen anything like it unless it's just some super specific piece of burl that they dyed with black/purple/blues; and same for the bridge? Never seen ESP use anything like that, but it's vaguely Gibraltar-ish.


I think it's a resin top. hardware is made in house by esp japan for their custom builds


----------



## macky

Purple resin top with brass dust blown or mixed in. Saw the blue version in a live demo and it was awesome. This purple one pops harder in contrast to the fingerboard. Apparently "black and white" ebony is Japanese->English translation of "pale moon" ebony. Always wanted one of those fingerboards. Could be wrong, but will still be happy.


----------



## mlp187

Congrats, @macky that is super fucking cool!


----------



## soul_lip_mike

Amazing


----------



## feraledge

JD27 said:


> Sick! What are those?


New ESP CTMs.


----------



## narad

macky said:


> Speaking of cumming...deposit secured!



Nice - probably the only one from this whole batch that was genuinely tempting!


----------



## Millul

Missed a deal on one of those teal E-II M-II...bummed, but will keep looking!


----------



## macky

narad said:


> Nice - probably the only one from this whole batch that was genuinely tempting!


Since you live in Tokyo I hafta ask - have you ever been to the shop in Shibuya where they make the exhibition limiteds? Is that even a place you can get a tour of without having a dealer with you for a custom order? Also correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the "other" ESP custom shop also somewhere in Tokyo? Would be awesome to tour both and A/B the build processes!


----------



## narad

macky said:


> Since you live in Tokyo I hafta ask - have you ever been to the shop in Shibuya where they make the exhibition limiteds? Is that even a place you can get a tour of without having a dealer with you for a custom order? Also correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the "other" ESP custom shop also somewhere in Tokyo? Would be awesome to tour both and A/B the build processes!



I've been to the "other" custom shop and to the crafthouse -store- in Shibuya. It's probably the same building, and as far as I know, there's no secret handshake or anything, but it's not like I walked by guys sanding guitar bodies, etc. Same for the other place -- plenty of raw guitar bodies and parts, and a couple guys setting up finished guitars, but I didn't see anything that looked like what I would call building.


----------



## Hollowway

narad said:


> plenty of raw guitar bodies and parts, and a couple guys setting up finished guitars, but I didn't see anything that looked like what I would call building.



Sounds suspiciously like BRJs shop. My money’s on a secret Mexican workshop.


----------



## macky

narad said:


> I've been to the "other" custom shop and to the crafthouse -store- in Shibuya. It's probably the same building, and as far as I know, there's no secret handshake or anything, but it's not like I walked by guys sanding guitar bodies, etc. Same for the other place -- plenty of raw guitar bodies and parts, and a couple guys setting up finished guitars, but I didn't see anything that looked like what I would call building.


Any idea where the workshop is that you see in the older exhibition limited videos? There's a bunch of start->finish build videos that show a bigger shop just for the guys making one-ish guitar a year. That's what I want to see in person, especially if they have some crazy "wood library" like PRS does.


----------



## Jeries

narad said:


> I've been to the "other" custom shop and to the crafthouse -store- in Shibuya. It's probably the same building, and as far as I know, there's no secret handshake or anything, but it's not like I walked by guys sanding guitar bodies, etc. Same for the other place -- plenty of raw guitar bodies and parts, and a couple guys setting up finished guitars, but I didn't see anything that looked like what I would call building.


That's cool you saw the finest CS in the world with your own eyes. I imagined it to be a huge, maybe 5,000+ sq ft "factory" with like 10 master luthiers and then a bunch of shop workers and apprentices - it sounds like its more like the small little luthier shops that are run out of executive business office lots tho

Its a long thread, so maybe I missed it, but what did you mean by "other" custom shop? There is Tokyo and the new US shop right? anyway, you must have such great guitar stories and experiences - and you have an Essi 8 so, you're a lucky, lucky guitarist!


----------



## BornToLooze

Jeries said:


> That's cool you saw the finest CS in the world with your own eyes. I imagined it to be a huge, maybe 5,000+ sq ft "factory" with like 10 master luthiers and then a bunch of shop workers and apprentices - it sounds like its more like the small little luthier shops that are run out of executive business office lots tho



I think it was Premier Guitar toured the ESP factory a couple years ago, if I remember right there's like 4-5 dudes that work in the custom shop, and probably 50-60 that make actual ESPs.


----------



## narad

Jeries said:


> That's cool you saw the finest CS in the world with your own eyes. I imagined it to be a huge, maybe 5,000+ sq ft "factory" with like 10 master luthiers and then a bunch of shop workers and apprentices - it sounds like its more like the small little luthier shops that are run out of executive business office lots tho
> 
> Its a long thread, so maybe I missed it, but what did you mean by "other" custom shop? There is Tokyo and the new US shop right? anyway, you must have such great guitar stories and experiences - and you have an Essi 8 so, you're a lucky, lucky guitarist!



(oh ya, the Essi's amazing!)

By the other shop I mean the Technical House, which is in Ochanomizu area. They'll do setups and things like that there, but it's again one of these small places that's hard to imagine anyone building at. I believe they've also changed locations and what they call which place. I have an ESP that was made at the TH, and it's just like... I can't believe it was built in any of the floors of that building. None of them seemed setup for any finish work.

And it's pretty much the same for the ESP buildings I've been to elsewhere. It's really hard for me to believe there's a significant building staff in Shibuya because at that point they could just turn it into a hotel and be 100x more profitable. I suspect there's a building further outside of Tokyo that does both standard series and custom/exhibition models, because of how I haven't seen any adequate building space in Tokyo and I've seen photos of old exhibition necks next to standard series production. When I was specc'ing out a custom order at BigBoss they definitely alluded to sending the specs off somewhere, they called a guy and asked about a special finish option I wanted, and me coming back to pick up there at the store I was at. It's a little bit clouded in mystery but I'm pretty confident I haven't been anywhere close to where most of the work's being done. It's all super fun still, always cool stuff to see.


----------



## macky

macky said:


> Speaking of cumming...deposit secured!


ESP Japan just posted this today:

Edit: posted this thinking it was the purple one above and a bunch of blue just came out in the lighting. Cross-referenced the model numbers and it's not the purple one. Still looking good but I like the blue better with the trem instead of hardtail.


----------



## Marked Man

Musiscience said:


> Would buy if it had a floyd. Does it have SS frets?



It needs caramelized something. Or baked.


----------



## Musiscience

Marked Man said:


> It needs caramelized something. Or baked.


For sure, baked maple sword or something.


----------



## Flappydoodle

narad said:


> (oh ya, the Essi's amazing!)
> 
> By the other shop I mean the Technical House, which is in Ochanomizu area. They'll do setups and things like that there, but it's again one of these small places that's hard to imagine anyone building at. I believe they've also changed locations and what they call which place. I have an ESP that was made at the TH, and it's just like... I can't believe it was built in any of the floors of that building. None of them seemed setup for any finish work.
> 
> And it's pretty much the same for the ESP buildings I've been to elsewhere. It's really hard for me to believe there's a significant building staff in Shibuya because at that point they could just turn it into a hotel and be 100x more profitable. I suspect there's a building further outside of Tokyo that does both standard series and custom/exhibition models, because of how I haven't seen any adequate building space in Tokyo and I've seen photos of old exhibition necks next to standard series production. When I was specc'ing out a custom order at BigBoss they definitely alluded to sending the specs off somewhere, they called a guy and asked about a special finish option I wanted, and me coming back to pick up there at the store I was at. It's a little bit clouded in mystery but I'm pretty confident I haven't been anywhere close to where most of the work's being done. It's all super fun still, always cool stuff to see.



A good friend of mine is an ESP artist who has a signature model, and he also told me that the build factory is not in Shibuya area. And yes, the E-II and Original/Custom lines are in the same place. In fact, there is some interchange between them, where some "lucky" E-IIs are actually contributed to, or finished by, the Original/Custom shop luthier guys.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Flappydoodle said:


> A good friend of mine is an ESP artist who has a signature model, and he also told me that the build factory is not in Shibuya area. And yes, the E-II and Original/Custom lines are in the same place. In fact, there is some interchange between them, where some "lucky" E-IIs are actually contributed to, or finished by, the Original/Custom shop luthier guys.



Not surprising, as that's how most shops work.

You're just as likely to find a USA Select Jackson built by Mike Shannon as a Masterbuilt. The guys who build J.Customs at Fujigen also build the Genesis models. 

It's not as much about who is building as how much time are they given.


----------



## alexanderhelling

Does anyone know where the ltd 200 series are made? For the new sn200ht i can't any details


----------



## MaxOfMetal

alexanderhelling said:


> Does anyone know where the ltd 200 series are made? For the new sn200ht i can't any details



Most are made in Indonesia, but some are made in China. I'm willing to bet some are made in both for the sake of expediance.


----------



## possumkiller

macky said:


> ESP Japan just posted this today:
> 
> Edit: posted this thinking it was the purple one above and a bunch of blue just came out in the lighting. Cross-referenced the model numbers and it's not the purple one. Still looking good but I like the blue better with the trem instead of hardtail.



If only it had an evertune and some fishmans with the metal caps.


----------



## macky

They finally posted it! Can't wait for the "sometime in April" like the distributor told me.

Also this guy must be like a pro hand model in Japan or something, just ditch the nail polish. Each one of his knuckles is freakishly longer than three of mine. Could be the monster's stunt double in a number of horror movies.


----------



## Steinmetzify

Anybody heard if that’s coming out as a sig? I haven’t read the whole thread, apologies.


----------



## mlp187

@macky damn I bet you are pumped. That thing is BEAUTIFUL. Can’t wait for the NGD.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

steinmetzify said:


> View attachment 92206
> 
> 
> Anybody heard if that’s coming out as a sig? I haven’t read the whole thread, apologies.



Iiiiis that a Brent Hinds ESP?


----------



## gunshow86de

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Iiiiis that a Brent Hinds ESP?



Close, it's Bill's new guitar he posted on Instagram.


----------



## Emperoff

MaxOfMetal said:


> Not surprising, as that's how most shops work.
> 
> You're just as likely to find a USA Select Jackson built by Mike Shannon as a Masterbuilt. The guys who build J.Customs at Fujigen also build the Genesis models.
> 
> It's not as much about who is building as how much time are they given.



Indeed. I have a CS Jackson 7 that didn’t say masterbuilt in the COA (although all USA Jackson 7s are masterbuilt). I asked Joe Williams if he built it since CMCGuitars had a twin of it in a different finish listed as "Masterbuilt by Joe Williams" (both made for NAMM 2017). It turns out he made one and Mike Shannon the other. So...


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

gunshow86de said:


> Close, it's Bill's new guitar he posted on Instagram.



There's no way he got that and totally didn't show it to Bill like "wink wink nudge nudge "

EDIT: Actually forgot Bill had the same guitar as well. Makes sense why he'd get one as well then. Wonder if this means that he's working closer with ESP to replace some of his older Gibsons.


----------



## macky

mlp187 said:


> @macky damn I bet you are pumped. That thing is BEAUTIFUL. Can’t wait for the NGD.


Thank you sir! Looking at doing a cumulative NGD post for the year once everything shows up. Will try to get a hold of something better than an iphone for the pix. Thinking about doing the "Lagoon" Arrow, whatever this purple/brass thing is called, and my worked-over UV77PSN together. Should be fun!


----------



## MaxOfMetal

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> There's no way he got that and totally didn't show it to Bill like "wink wink nudge nudge "
> 
> EDIT: Actually forgot Bill had the same guitar as well. Makes sense why he'd get one as well then. Wonder if this means that he's working closer with ESP to replace some of his older Gibsons.



Bill is still a big Gibson player, only really takes a few ESPs on the road and uses them in online lessons, most of his rack is still old Les Pauls and a couple odds and ends. 

Brent is really into those Banker authorized Gibsons now. 

It seems they both really love Gibson guitars, but don't really want to associate with the brand in an official capacity, which isn't totally shocking.


----------



## R34CH

MaxOfMetal said:


> Bill is still a big Gibson player, only really takes a few ESPs on the road and uses them in online lessons, most of his rack is still old Les Pauls and a couple odds and ends.



Yeah, completely agree based on what I've seen. Last time I saw them when they came through touring on the Crack the Skye Anniversary (2019?) I don't think he played an ESP the entire night.


----------



## Miek

MaxOfMetal said:


> Bill is still a big Gibson player, only really takes a few ESPs on the road and uses them in online lessons, most of his rack is still old Les Pauls and a couple odds and ends.
> 
> Brent is really into those Banker authorized Gibsons now.
> 
> It seems they both really love Gibson guitars, but don't really want to associate with the brand in an official capacity, which isn't totally shocking.


This post is the first I've heard about the Banker Gibsons and part of me kind of can't believe it's something that really happened.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Miek said:


> This post is the first I've heard about the Banker Gibsons and part of me kind of can't believe it's something that really happened.



It doesn't get the headlines like "Gibson sends C&D", but they've opened up thier designs for license to builders going back a few years now. 

Banker was the first, and has been making a mint doing it. 

I was able to check out one at CME before the pandemic and it was a beast of a guitar. I can see why Brent is so into them.


----------



## Mathemagician

I entirely read this as something authorized by a bank. It’s a guys NAME, ah makes more sense.


----------



## Wuuthrad

Mathemagician said:


> I entirely read this as something authorized by a bank. It’s a guys NAME, ah makes more sense.



Honest mistake makes sense- you pretty much do need to be a banker to afford some of these Gibsons!


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Wuuthrad said:


> Honest mistake makes sense- you pretty much do need to be a banker to afford some of these Gibsons!



I know you're being facetious, but anyone who can afford a few LTD Deluxes or couple of Prestige Ibanez can afford just about anything Gibson makes, or ESP for that matter.


----------



## mbardu

MaxOfMetal said:


> I know you're being facetious, but anyone who can afford a few LTD Deluxes or couple of Prestige Ibanez can afford just about anything Gibson makes, or ESP for that matter.



Counterpoint: if you're on a budget, a few used LTD deluxe and Ibanez Japan (or Schecter or the like for that matter) and you may still be under 2/2.5k$ for all the quality guitars you'd ever need in various 6/7 tunings... Compared to that, getting an ESP USA, even second hand, under 2.5k$ is pretty tough. Even worse for a decent (good luck with that) Gibson historic.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

mbardu said:


> Counterpoint: if you're on a budget, a few used LTD deluxe and Ibanez Japan (or Schecter or the like for that matter) and you may still be under 2/2.5k$ for all the quality guitars you'd ever need in various 6/7 tunings... Compared to that, getting an ESP USA, even second hand, under 2.5k$ is pretty tough. Even worse for a decent (good luck with that) Gibson historic.



That's a personal choice and to taste. Some folks rather have a stable of odds and ends, and some rather spring for one knock out. There's no "right" way to do it. 

But based solely on the issue of affordability (again, not value) buying six $500 guitars is the same amount of money as one $3000 guitar. 

Counterpoint: if you're on a tight budget, maybe don't buy a bunch of guitars in the first place.


----------



## soul_lip_mike

I’d personally always rather own one $3,000 guitar than six $500 indo/China guitars. I’m always a bit confused when I see people post collections of nearly a dozen guitars that are all cheap imports. Quality over quantity for me. That said, whatever floats your boat!


----------



## mbardu

soul_lip_mike said:


> I’d personally always rather own one $3,000 guitar than six $500 indo/China guitars. I’m always a bit confused when I see people post collections of nearly a dozen guitars that are all cheap imports. Quality over quantity for me. That said, whatever floats your boat!



If you play in a band where you need to play various tunings and you're not rich yet, then it can make sense to have a few guitars. Plus, setup well, a 700$ used guitar can play and sound just as good as any instrument (3k$ or otherwise) for all practical purposes. What i don't understand is people who have 10 cheap guitars sith _same specs_ in the _same tuning_ either, but i don't judge.

Now lets be honest, the above "need" scenario doesn't apply to most people here where we (myself included) are after fancy guitars for the sake of fancy guitars. And guilty as charged, i have a couple of expensive ones myself because i am lucky to be able to afford it.

But nobody needs a 3k$ guitar. It's really more a matter of "luxury over quantity" than "quality" too. You don't need 3k$ for a quality guitars. In fact some 3k$ guitars are less reliable, with a worse sound, and not necessarily more playable than, say a used km-6 you could get for 700$. And often not even finished better.


----------



## Wuuthrad

MaxOfMetal said:


> Counterpoint: if you're on a tight budget, maybe don't buy a bunch of guitars in the first place.





Say what? Logic when impulse buying guitars? 

I don’t think electric guitars are worth spending much more than 1-2K. After that its just bling. 

And under or around 1K can get a really nice variety and quality of instrument. 

Not knocking luthiers or artistry in any way, its all good. 

Where do you look at the Banker Gibsons, any links?


----------



## Wuuthrad

MaxOfMetal said:


> I know you're being facetious, but anyone who can afford a few LTD Deluxes or couple of Prestige Ibanez can afford just about anything Gibson makes, or ESP for that matter.



True that! 

The heavy relic Les Pauls though? Smdh 

lol


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Wuuthrad said:


> Say what? Logic when impulse buying guitars?
> 
> I don’t think electric guitars are worth spending much more than 1-2K. After that its just bling.
> 
> And under or around 1K can get a really nice variety and quality of instrument.
> 
> Not knocking luthiers or artistry in any way, its all good.
> 
> Where do you look at the Banker Gibsons, any links?



https://bankerguitar.com/


----------



## Randy

Oh this debate again


----------



## BornToLooze

mbardu said:


> But nobody needs a 3k$ guitar. It's really more a matter of "luxury over quantity" than "quality" too. You don't need 3k$ for a quality guitars. In fact some 3k$ guitars are less reliable, with a worse sound, and not necessarily more playable than, say a used km-6 you could get for 700$. And often not even finished better.



And Gibson is the best example of that. I played everything from Epi Studio to Custom Shops and Reissues. I bought the best playing one an and this is what it looks like 12 years later because of how good it is.


----------



## Zhysick

BornToLooze said:


> And Gibson is the best example of that. I played everything from Epi Studio to Custom Shops and Reissues. I bought the best playing one an and this is what it looks like 12 years later because of how good it is.
> View attachment 92510
> View attachment 92511



That Epi Special-II looks awesome, nice mods!


----------



## BornToLooze

Zhysick said:


> That Epi Special-II looks awesome, nice mods!



Dude, I need to post post a pic about how good I dremeled the head stock to look like a Gibby.


----------



## Zhysick

BornToLooze said:


> Dude, I need to post post a pic about how good I dremeled the head stock to look like a Gibby.



And some details about the carve of the body please. I have to admit the veneer look like a real AA top, great job there dude!


----------



## BornToLooze

Zhysick said:


> And some details about the carve of the body please. I have to admit the veneer look like a real AA top, great job there dude!



Just run a dremel over wear your arm goes, makes it more comfy.

But for real, when I got it, I went to like 4-5 places and I played everything up to some vintage ones that were over $10k, I traded in every guitar I had except my first one because I clicked that hard with a Guitar Center floor model.

That guitar is the reason I completely get the Gibson hate, but also get why Gibson is as famous as it is.


----------



## Wuuthrad

Sometimes I wonder if Gibson is playing a twisted con on everyone, trolling their fans? 

Forums are littered with people complaining about QC and a multitude of issues, and what do they do? 

Release their most expensive guitars as damaged beyond belief! What happens when those are damaged in shipping? lol

At least ESP is making actual art, not charging thousands for sticking a guitar in a freezer then in the sunlight over and over, carving it up with a razor blade, spilling coffee on it and burning it with cigarette butts!

ffs man ppl pay 10s of K for this shit? lmao...


----------



## BornToLooze

Wuuthrad said:


> Sometimes I wonder if Gibson is playing a twisted con on everyone, trolling their fans?



The whole thing with Gibson is they are handmade guitars. They follow the contractors pyramid. Good, fast and cheap. Pick 2. I played like 30-50 of them looking for mine, and they were all completely different guitars.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Wuuthrad said:


> At least ESP is making actual art, not charging thousands for sticking a guitar in a freezer then in the sunlight over and over, carving it up with a razor blade, spilling coffee on it and burning it with cigarette butts!



Ummmmm.....


----------



## Wuuthrad

MaxOfMetal said:


> Ummmmm.....
> 
> View attachment 92513
> View attachment 92514
> View attachment 92515
> View attachment 92516
> View attachment 92517
> View attachment 92518
> View attachment 92519
> View attachment 92520



“Relics” too huh? Are those 2021 models?

I was referring to the high end custom models earlier in the thread. I cant imagine those relic ESPs are costing as much as the priciest Gibson Murphy models which are like 20 grand? But hey what do I know?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Wuuthrad said:


> “Relics” too huh? Are those 2021 models?
> 
> I was referring to the high end custom models earlier in the thread. I cant imagine those relic ESPs are costing as much as the priciest Gibson Murphy models which are like 20 grand? But hey what do I know?



ESP has been doing relics for something like 20 years now, and does so currently. 

Most are custom shop models starting around $5k, but they've done NAMM stuff that's relic'd in the near five figures, which is comparable to the highest price Murphy Lab stuff that hits ~12k. 

The relic market is HUGE and just about all the major manufacturers offer or have offered it in some way or form.


----------



## Shoeless_jose

In Canada a Les Paul Studio costs less than many LTD 1000 series. A Les Paul Standard likely less than an E-II eclipse.

Yeah the Les Paul Customs and R8 VOS stuff are mad expensive but overall Gibson is not like unattainable prices. And I didn't even touch on the tributes, Juniors SGs ect


----------



## Wuuthrad

I just don’t get relics, never will. Different strokes I guess. 

Paying extra for fake used stuff, kinda irks me I guess. Whatever...


----------



## D-EJ915

MaxOfMetal said:


> ESP has been doing relics for something like 20 years now, and does so currently.
> 
> Most are custom shop models starting around $5k, but they've done NAMM stuff that's relic'd in the near five figures, which is comparable to the highest price Murphy Lab stuff that hits ~12k.
> 
> The relic market is HUGE and just about all the major manufacturers offer or have offered it in some way or form.


Don't forget the truckster which was actually a production model and LTD as well.


----------



## mbardu

Wuuthrad said:


> I just don’t get relics, never will. Different strokes I guess.
> 
> Paying extra for fake used stuff, kinda irks me I guess. Whatever...



I wouldn't pay more. I'd pay less.
But at least if it's pre-beat up, you don't have to worry about resale value because of a few dings


----------



## xzacx

mbardu said:


> I wouldn't pay more. I'd pay less.
> But at least if it's pre-beat up, you don't have to worry about resale value because of a few dings



I really think that’s part of the appeal for at least some people. They don’t have to worry about playing it and dinging it up, and it’s basically always in “mint” condition. I agree though, I wouldn’t pay more for something because it was relic’d but it wouldn’t necessarily be a deal breaker if it was something I wanted otherwise.


----------



## Miek

MaxOfMetal said:


> It doesn't get the headlines like "Gibson sends C&D", but they've opened up thier designs for license to builders going back a few years now.
> 
> Banker was the first, and has been making a mint doing it.
> 
> I was able to check out one at CME before the pandemic and it was a beast of a guitar. I can see why Brent is so into them.


Definitely isn't something up my alley, but it's incredibly fascinating form an outside viewpoint on gibson. They're probably killer guitars, which makes me even more surprised it ever got the approval stamp.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Miek said:


> Definitely isn't something up my alley, but it's incredibly fascinating form an outside viewpoint on gibson. They're probably killer guitars, which makes me even more surprised it ever got the approval stamp.



It's part of thier whole "Play Authentic®" thing they've been pushing. 

The premise is, they know that there is real competition from boutique builders of Gibson copies and almost copies, especially in that ~$4k range. So why not team up with some of these builders to offer something of a more "bonafide" product?

This gives them a level of control as far as what's out there, and low key gives them some insight into what folks in that bracket are looking for in a guitar. 

They should have done this decades ago.


----------



## narad

MaxOfMetal said:


> This gives them a level of control as far as what's out there, and low key gives them some insight into what folks in that bracket are looking for in a guitar.



"ahh, so you don't want the frets to jut out over the edge of the fretboard. And the nut cut properly for the strings? Iiiiinteresting...."


----------



## Mathemagician

narad said:


> "ahh, so you don't want the frets to jut out over the edge of the fretboard. And the nut cut properly for the strings? Iiiiinteresting...."



You want stainless steel frets and not cryogenically frozen aluminum? Hmmmm.


----------



## angl2k

D-EJ915 said:


> Don't forget the truckster which was actually a production model and LTD as well.



Yup on production models they call it the Distressed finish and/or Aged burst. I've seen quite a few Vipers and Eclipses with it. Not my cup of tea though.


----------



## MFB

MaxOfMetal said:


> Ummmmm.....


----------



## JD27

He wanted it to look like a used skateboard deck.


----------



## MFB

I would actually play that, it's colors and an overall aesthetic that on paper, I would say doesn't work; but seeing it now, it totally does.


----------



## Spicypickles

I prefer his black distressed one, but they’re both rad.


----------



## MFB

Oh fuck, I've never seen his black distressed Warbird, but now that I have? It's the cooler of the two.

If there was an LTD version without the inlays (just do traditional LTD flags or nothing in my book), I'd be all over it like a fly on shit.


----------



## gunshow86de

Not an available model, but I didn't know where else to put it. Always worth posting the pink Stef (now with matching scrunchie!).


----------



## Dumple Stilzkin

Sorry.


----------



## BlueTrident

gunshow86de said:


> Not an available model, but I didn't know where else to put it. Always worth posting the pink Stef (now with matching scrunchie!).



I NEED this as a sig model


----------



## Zhysick

H O L Y F * C K ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! 






Who needs a kidney? I'm selling one. PM for offers and shipping rates, please...

https://www.espguitars.com/products?categories=87-series-guitars&content_filter=latest


----------



## gunshow86de

I liek.


----------



## ArtDecade




----------



## MFB

I really don't like crackle as a finish, but that one has managed to break through this young fool's heart; but thankfully not my wallet.


----------



## Albake21

Ah come on, that HS M crackle would have been awesome with 24 frets. I love these reissues ESP are doing, but damnit I hate how I have to choose between 24 frets or a neck pickup.


----------



## gunshow86de

Albake21 said:


> I love these reissues ESP are doing, but damnit I hate how I have to choose between 24 frets or a neck pickup.


----------



## Zhysick

Why? It's pretty obvious the answer always is "only bridge pickup" despite the number of frets


----------



## Dumple Stilzkin

Those are really really cool!!!


----------



## soul_lip_mike

Zhysick said:


> H O L Y F * C K ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who needs a kidney? I'm selling one. PM for offers and shipping rates, please...
> 
> https://www.espguitars.com/products?categories=87-series-guitars&content_filter=latest


Ugh why are these Ltd


----------



## mbardu

Zhysick said:


> H O L Y F * C K ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who needs a kidney? I'm selling one. PM for offers and shipping rates, please...
> 
> https://www.espguitars.com/products?categories=87-series-guitars&content_filter=latest



Why no stainless steel frets at that price point?

Also if needed, this is just more proof that product managers for all those brands aren't even trying to come up with something new at that point. Just copying each other's stuff a year later and call it a day I guess!


----------



## Dumple Stilzkin

mbardu said:


> Why no stainless steel frets at that price point?
> 
> Also if needed, this is just more proof that product managers for all those brands aren't even trying to come up with something new at that point. Just copying each other's stuff a year later and call it a day I guess!


I love stainless steel frets myself, however, these guitars are a throw back to guitars ESP produced in 1987. So no stainless steel frets here.


----------



## Zhysick

mbardu said:


> Why no stainless steel frets at that price point?
> 
> Also if needed, this is just more proof that product managers for all those brands aren't even trying to come up with something new at that point. Just copying each other's stuff a year later and call it a day I guess!



Well, when something is called "reissue" it's normal to not be a new design...


----------



## mbardu

Dumple Stilzkin said:


> I love stainless steel frets myself, however, these guitars are a throw back to guitars ESP produced in 1987. So no stainless steel frets here.





Zhysick said:


> Well, when something is called "reissue" it's normal to not be a new design...



Yeah well the bridges, headstock, controls, pickups, finishes, tuners, different construction, multi-piece necks, also different shape with no scoop (weren't the actual tele-like "Eclipses" even a whole different scale length?) ... all that's different so it feels like using "_exact reissue_" as a reason for a good quality of life feature missing is a bit of a stretch.
Especially when that feature is there on similarly priced guitars of the same brand.

As for new "design" I was talking about the finish. Was rainbow crackle a thing on those in the eighties? Because it's certainly a thing with a certain resurgence in the last couple of years from Kiesel to Aristides to Jackson.


----------



## Zado

mbardu said:


> Also if needed, this is just more proof that product managers for all those brands aren't even trying to come up with something new at that point. Just copying each other's stuff a year later and call it a day I guess



Don't complain, just be grateful that crackled finishes will likely be the new trend instead of burled/tumorwood.


----------



## Mathemagician

Zado said:


> Don't complain, just be grateful that crackled finishes will likely be the new trend instead of burled/tumorwood.



Up next: Cracked Mirror! 

Bleed your own blood!


----------



## Zhysick

mbardu said:


> Yeah well the bridges, headstock, controls, pickups, finishes, tuners, different construction, multi-piece necks, also different shape with no scoop (weren't the actual tele-like "Eclipses" even a whole different scale length?) ... all that's different so it feels like using "_exact reissue_" as a reason for a good quality of life feature missing is a bit of a stretch.
> Especially when that feature is there on similarly priced guitars of the same brand.
> 
> As for new "design" I was talking about the finish. Was rainbow crackle a thing on those in the eighties? Because it's certainly a thing with a certain resurgence in the last couple of years from Kiesel to Aristides to Jackson.



Floyd or TOM. What's wrong there? Not being an Original Floyd? Get an ESP, this is LTD.

Headstock is a lawsuit issue with Jackson, can't use the old one.

Controls? Tuners? What's wrong there? Multi-picee neck is a factory issue. Also, want a one piece quarter sawn? Get an ESP (custom shop probably for that).

Pickups? Really? Weren't JBs, 59s and Distortions the main sound of the glam and hard rock and metal of the late 80's? Dokken, Stryper, Motley Crue, Judas Priest, Maiden and a very long etc. disagree.

I don't know about the scale length of the old Eclipses but I see the scoop on the M1 (the proper one with just bridge humbucker).

About the SS frets... Yeah, they could install those and some people would like it some won't as some might like the finish and some don't but definitely the finish screams 80's and that's the exact point and a SH6 Distortion also screams 80s metal and that's the exact point. Same as for a non recessed Floyd...


----------



## LostTheTone

mbardu said:


> Also if needed, this is just more proof that product managers for all those brands aren't even trying to come up with something new at that point. Just copying each other's stuff a year later and call it a day I guess!



To be fair to guitar companies - There really isn't a huge amount of "new" in the guitar world to explore, and they all do the vast majority of their sales on "normie" guitars too.

I'm sure we all have our own ideas about exactly what combination of features, shape and finish that we would want to be able to buy off the shelf that we can't get at the moment. But how many genuinely new ideas can we come up with? And how many of those ideas are good enough that many other people would want them right away and could also be done at a good enough price to make them sell? 

The key for all of these companies is to release something that's just a little bit different, but still something you can sell to normal people as a normal guitar. I don't think that's a mark against them at all, it's just the realities of selling stuff in a world where most of their money is made by selling normal stuff to normal people, not crazy stuff to mad people. 

Solar is a new guitar company, right? And founded by a proper guitarist who wanted to make cool guitars, right? And what do Solar sell? 4 types of super-strat, a Les Paul shape, an Explorer, a V and a Tele. Sure, they have a mix of bridges and scale lengths and stringednesses. But nothing outrageous. They (generally) sell stuff with solid pickups, but for most of us we'd replace the stock pickups in almost any guitar. Solar do have some really sexy finishes, but they aren't gasp inducingly innovative. The most innovative thing the company offers is the AB superstrat with a humbucker, a single coil and an unusual neck.

I'm just saying... Guitars are big purchases for most people, and they get used for numerous years. New ideas are fine, but novelty ideas don't sell. Even those of us who are discerning consumers are prone to saying "Pfft, I'm not pay THAT much for it..." and then going to buy yet another boring but reliable super-strat.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

mbardu said:


> Why no stainless steel frets at that price point?
> 
> Also if needed, this is just more proof that product managers for all those brands aren't even trying to come up with something new at that point. Just copying each other's stuff a year later and call it a day I guess!



When guitar companies try something different, people will complain about it too


----------



## LostTheTone

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> When guitar companies try something different, people will complain about it too



Ah but you see... When we said "different" we meant "96% the same as other guitars we like".


----------



## mbardu

Zhysick said:


> Floyd or TOM. What's wrong there? Not being an Original Floyd? Get an ESP, this is LTD.
> 
> Headstock is a lawsuit issue with Jackson, can't use the old one.
> 
> Controls? Tuners? What's wrong there? Multi-picee neck is a factory issue. Also, want a one piece quarter sawn? Get an ESP (custom shop probably for that).
> 
> Pickups? Really? Weren't JBs, 59s and Distortions the main sound of the glam and hard rock and metal of the late 80's? Dokken, Stryper, Motley Crue, Judas Priest, Maiden and a very long etc. disagree.
> 
> I don't know about the scale length of the old Eclipses but I see the scoop on the M1 (the proper one with just bridge humbucker).
> 
> About the SS frets... Yeah, they could install those and some people would like it some won't as some might like the finish and some don't but definitely the finish screams 80's and that's the exact point and a SH6 Distortion also screams 80s metal and that's the exact point. Same as for a non recessed Floyd...



Now, you didn't understand what I meant.

None of those specs are bad, or an issue.
In fact, I like seeing a "the Eclipse" with a shorter 24.75 scale (what people associate with the Eclipses of _today_), and with a routed (not top mounted) _modern _Floyd. With a more solid 3 piece neck. And seeing some locking tuners too. And don't mind Seymour Duncans vs ESP pickups (who talked about the sound of the 80s? that's besides the point). And I know that the headstock is lawsuit. Etc etc. I actually _prefer _most of those changes, don't get me wrong.
But this a very different guitar compared to say that guy or that guy. So the argument "they have to be exact reissues" against putting in stainless steel frets is just very weird because they're far from that.

Edit: I'll take the "scoop" comment back. Still not sure that changes the argument against stainless steel frets, but there is one model with scoop indeed.



Zhysick said:


> the finish screams 80's and that's the exact point



I don't recall _ever _seeing any ESPs from that era with a rainbow crackle, so unlike the nice blue/green of the first round of reissue (which was a true reissue color), those scream "copy of 2020 Jackson/Kiesel/Aristides" way more than they scream "80s ESP" in my mind


----------



## Zhysick

mbardu said:


> Now, you didn't understand what I meant.
> 
> None of those specs are bad, or an issue.
> In fact, I like seeing a "the Eclipse" with a shorter 24.75 scale (what people associate with the Eclipses of _today_), and with a routed (not top mounted) _modern _Floyd. With a more solid 3 piece neck. And seeing some locking tuners too. And don't mind Seymour Duncans vs ESP pickups (who talked about the sound of the 80s? that's besides the point). And I know that the headstock is lawsuit. Etc etc. I actually _prefer _most of those changes, don't get me wrong.
> But it's a very different guitar compared to say that guy or that guy. So the argument "they have to be exact reissues" against putting in stainless steel frets is just very weird because they're far from that.



Alright, ok, but I wasn't talking about the SS and I thought you complaint about the finish not being "real 80s" and the writing about the bridge, controls, etc was an explanation about it not being 80s 

Misunderstood

As said...SS ar good for some and bad for others. I prefer nickel frets despite starting to like it in my Solar (but hated them in my previous guitars specially the Carvin I had, horrid sounding... Maybe there are some differences in INOX alloy along the fret makers...)


----------



## mbardu

LostTheTone said:


> To be fair to guitar companies - There really isn't a huge amount of "new" in the guitar world to explore, and they all do the vast majority of their sales on "normie" guitars too.
> 
> I'm sure we all have our own ideas about exactly what combination of features, shape and finish that we would want to be able to buy off the shelf that we can't get at the moment. But how many genuinely new ideas can we come up with? And how many of those ideas are good enough that many other people would want them right away and could also be done at a good enough price to make them sell?
> 
> The key for all of these companies is to release something that's just a little bit different, but still something you can sell to normal people as a normal guitar. I don't think that's a mark against them at all, it's just the realities of selling stuff in a world where most of their money is made by selling normal stuff to normal people, not crazy stuff to mad people.
> 
> Solar is a new guitar company, right? And founded by a proper guitarist who wanted to make cool guitars, right? And what do Solar sell? 4 types of super-strat, a Les Paul shape, an Explorer, a V and a Tele. Sure, they have a mix of bridges and scale lengths and stringednesses. But nothing outrageous. They (generally) sell stuff with solid pickups, but for most of us we'd replace the stock pickups in almost any guitar. Solar do have some really sexy finishes, but they aren't gasp inducingly innovative. The most innovative thing the company offers is the AB superstrat with a humbucker, a single coil and an unusual neck.
> 
> I'm just saying... Guitars are big purchases for most people, and they get used for numerous years. New ideas are fine, but novelty ideas don't sell. Even those of us who are discerning consumers are prone to saying "Pfft, I'm not pay THAT much for it..." and then going to buy yet another boring but reliable super-strat.



That's exactly what I'm saying actually. My comment was literally "just one more proof...if we needed any more proof". Not judging or saying others are better.
Most guitars companies do exactly that, resell the same shape as last year, without innovation and just vaguely adding seasonal updates.
Here ESP/LTD is just doing the absolute _extreme _of that because they're taking the same models they had a year ago, and just slapping the competitor's finish on top of it. And where they _could _add a small-ish easy "innovation", that they _have _applied to the rest of the similar range (stainless steel frets), and that brings tangible benefits to a lot of players...they _choose _not to.


----------



## Crash Dandicoot

mbardu said:


> I don't recall _ever _seeing any ESPs from that era with a rainbow crackle



One google away:






Regarding SS frets, with the Arctic/Black Metal and 1000 series LTDs getting them it's odd they didn't extend that to this line. I don't see it as a big deal, and it seems to be a more prominent point of contention when it comes to import lines than higher-end models, for whatever reason. Nobody cares when their PRS Private Stock, J Custom or ESP Exhibition has Jescar instead of SS frets, but on an LTD or Iron Label? Suddenly they're trash and not worth the money


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Crash Dandicoot said:


> One google away:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Regarding SS frets, with the Arctic/Black Metal and 1000 series LTDs getting them it's odd they didn't extend that to this line. I don't see it as a big deal, and it seems to be a more prominent point of contention when it comes to import lines than higher-end models, for whatever reason. Nobody cares when their PRS Private Stock, J Custom or ESP Exhibition has Jescar instead of SS frets, but on an LTD or Iron Label? Suddenly they're trash and not worth the money



Because the majority of people who are so overwhelmingly vocal about SS frets are internet spec-queens who buy import stuff with stacked spec sheets vs. high quality guitars that might not sound as up-market on paper and act like it means they're more "in the know" about these things...while complaining they can't setup their Floyds.


----------



## mbardu

Crash Dandicoot said:


> One google away:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Regarding SS frets, with the Arctic/Black Metal and 1000 series LTDs getting them it's odd they didn't extend that to this line. I don't see it as a big deal, and it seems to be a more prominent point of contention when it comes to import lines than higher-end models, for whatever reason. Nobody cares when their PRS Private Stock, J Custom or ESP Exhibition has Jescar instead of SS frets, but on an LTD or Iron Label? Suddenly they're trash and not worth the money



Well I'll be damned...you're better at googling than I am then, and I tip my hat to you.
Didn't show up at all when I looked for ESP Rainbow crackle. Only the recent ones showed up and funny enough, a bunch of Charvels and CJackson


----------



## Crash Dandicoot

@mbardu That finish is entirely more common and associated with Jackson/Charvel, so that's unsurprising. Though like everything those brands did in that era, ESP copied that too


----------



## mbardu

MaxOfMetal said:


> Because the majority of people who are so overwhelmingly vocal about SS frets are internet spec-queens who buy import stuff with stacked spec sheets vs. high quality guitars that might not sound as up-market on paper and act like it means they're more "in the know" about these things...while complaining they can't setup their Floyds.



Everyone can make 2-cents worth of generalizations, but nobody cares whether an ESP exhibition or a Private Stock has stainless steel frets or not because nobody plays those guitars and instead they are kept under glass by collectors with too much money. Oh Whoops, did I also generalize .

Ibanez, it's already changing on Prestige, and it won't be long until it makes its way to J-Customs. ESP it's already on LTD 1000s and USAs, and touted as the upgrade that it is. PRS, it won't ever get there because nobody can convince PRS of anything.

At the end of the day, there's nothing _wrong _with guitars without stainless steel frets. But when the brand is already offering it on the rest of the lineup, and it is measurably better for a majority of use cases, I don't see what the resistance is about.

It's not about imports or about being "in the know" or something being particularly new either. Suhr or Anderson have been doing it for a long time, and are far from import junk. Or maybe they don't fall in the category of "high quality guitars" I guess...


----------



## LostTheTone

mbardu said:


> Everyone can make 2-cents worth of generalizations, but nobody cares whether an ESP exhibition or a Private Stock has stainless steel frets or not because nobody plays those guitars and instead they are kept under glass by collectors with too much money. Oh Whoops, did I also generalize
> 
> There's nothing wrong with guitars without stainless steel frets. But when the brand is offering it on the rest of the lineup, and it is measurably better for a majority of use cases, I don't see what the resistance is about.
> 
> It's not about imports or about being "in the know" or something being particularly new either. Suhr or Anderson have been doing it for a long time, and are far from import junk. Or maybe they don't fall in the category of "high quality guitars"..



I bet you that the decision was made because the place that stores the stainless frets is juuuuust far enough away from wherever they are being assembled that it added 0.7cents to the total cost of materials, and that was deemed unacceptable by management.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

mbardu said:


> Everyone can make 2-cents worth of generalizations, but nobody cares whether an ESP exhibition or a Private Stock has stainless steel frets or not because nobody plays those guitars and instead they are kept under glass by collectors with too much money. Oh Whoops, did I also generalize
> 
> There's nothing wrong with guitars without stainless steel frets. But when the brand is offering it on the rest of the lineup, and it is measurably better for a majority of use cases, I don't see what the resistance is about.



Man, I spent decades working directly with these folks, so sure, it's a generalization, but also one that I've seen literally hundreds (maybe thousands?) of times IRL.

Stainless steel frets can be great, and if everything is the same I'd go that route, but it's not important enough to be a make or break thing.

Lolz at the edits.



LostTheTone said:


> I bet you that the decision was made because the place that stores the stainless frets is juuuuust far enough away from wherever they are being assembled that it added 0.7cents to the total cost of materials, and that was deemed unacceptable by management.



More likely, it was just cheaper and easier to just request a different finish from Cortek vs. changing more specs. This decision was definitely made with cost and speed in mind.


----------



## LostTheTone

MaxOfMetal said:


> More likely, it was just cheaper and easier to just request a different finish from Cortek vs. changing more specs. This decision was definitely made with cost and speed in mind.



My theory was explained in a funnier way though, which makes it more truer.


----------



## JSanta

mbardu said:


> Everyone can make 2-cents worth of generalizations, but nobody cares whether an ESP exhibition or a Private Stock has stainless steel frets or not because nobody plays those guitars and instead they are kept under glass by collectors with too much money. Oh Whoops, did I also generalize .
> 
> Ibanez, it's already changing on Prestige, and it won't be long until it makes its way to J-Customs. ESP it's already on LTD 1000s and USAs, and touted as the upgrade that it is. PRS, it won't ever get there because nobody can convince PRS of anything.
> 
> At the end of the day, there's nothing _wrong _with guitars without stainless steel frets. But when the brand is already offering it on the rest of the lineup, and it is measurably better for a majority of use cases, I don't see what the resistance is about.
> 
> It's not about imports or about being "in the know" or something being particularly new either. Suhr or Anderson have been doing it for a long time, and are far from import junk. Or maybe they don't fall in the category of "high quality guitars" I guess...



Except Joe Walsh did get PRS to include SS frets on their recent limited release of Joe Walsh 594s. 

SS is not a deal breaker, and I think people that harp on that one point of a guitar should probably spend more time playing than complaining on message boards (just a generalization, not directed at any one person here). I've got two luthier-built Gypsy guitars sitting next to me, one with SS and one without, and they are equally fantastic. The only limiting factor is my lack of skill, not nickel versus SS frets.


----------



## mbardu

MaxOfMetal said:


> Man, I spent decades working directly with these folks, so sure, it's a generalization, but also one that I've seen literally hundreds (maybe thousands?) of times IRL.
> 
> Stainless steel frets can be great, and if everything is the same I'd go that route, but it's not important enough to be a make or break thing.
> 
> Lolz at the edits.



At least we agree that everything else equal, we'd go stainless steel and wouldn't lose much while gaining a bunch.
It might not be a dealbreaker for some, but I don't get the resistance in acknowledging that it can be an issue, or at least a strong preference to others.

I have a bunch of guitars so there are some that I play only every few months. The Suhr I pick up plays just as smooth three months later than if I played it the day before. The core PRS is nowhere near as smooth, and if I want that glassy smooth feeling, I have to spend 10 minutes of maintenance on the guitar before playing it for 30 minutes. Hassle city when you don't have infinite time. Getting a stainless steel equivalent of the PRS is way more "high quality" worth it to me than paying 10k for a PRS Private stock that would supposedly be more of a "high quality guitar" in your terms (which we know is way past diminishing returns in terms of anything objective). If your goal is to actually play the guitars and enjoy them, not just be proud to have a fancy 10k$ instrument, then I'd argue that's what "high quality" means to a majority of people.

Plus, yeah I edited my posts 1 minute later because I thought of something else. Ban me I guess 



MaxOfMetal said:


> More likely, it was just cheaper and easier to just request a different finish from Cortek vs. changing more specs. This decision was definitely made with cost and speed in mind.



That's the piece that's weirder. It's likely the same OEM, same shop, and they have already upgraded all the 1000s series (and black/arctic metal) to stainless steel. At no extra cost on "older" 1000 models either. Making something _different _usually would be what costs _more_ now, not less. Or else they are not done with the same specs as the black metal/1000s and are not meant to be the same tier?


----------



## mbardu

JSanta said:


> Except Joe Walsh did get PRS to include SS frets on their recent limited release of Joe Walsh 594s.
> 
> SS is not a deal breaker, and I think people that harp on that one point of a guitar should probably spend more time playing than complaining on message boards (just a generalization, not directed at any one person here). I've got two luthier-built Gypsy guitars sitting next to me, one with SS and one without, and they are equally fantastic. The only limiting factor is my lack of skill, not nickel versus SS frets.



I'll rephrase that. PRS may do it on special artist runs or PS orders, with the excuse that it's not his request. But he won't do a base Core model with it. That is of course, unless he can convince himself and others that stainless steel was _his _idea all along.

Re: people should spend more time playing vs complaining, I guess we're all guilty of complaining online aren't we. Plus sometimes your fingertips need a break from strings when the last hour of practice just finished destroying even the calluses 
I'm more concerned about guitar maintenance time vs guitar enjoyment time. If I had a single guitar or two, I guess I wouldn't mind nickel frets at all. Just change strings every 2/3 weeks and polish the frets at that point. But with a bunch of guitars, stainless steel fret ones that you don't play that much can keep the same strings for sometimes months, and still remain just as playable without any time on maintenance. This is a game changer. Nickel ones (that I still have because they're still great guitars), I do need to change strings and polish the frets more frequently than I'd like, and I sure would prefer that time to be spent playing vs maintenance. So getting a stainless steel equivalent is directly an impact on being able to spend more time playing.


----------



## yan12

So many great points. I agree with complaining vs. playing. Since 99% of the world's greatest recordings were done on nickel frets, hard to say they are bad in any way. As technology advances, some embrace and some do not. I am a living, breathing contradiction as I choose to deny and embrace.

I love stainless frets but refuse to use amp modelers. I think the Les Paul has more engineering design faults and problems than any electric guitar in history, but I love the look and tone. I hate solid state amps (except for quick practice and portability), and yet I love Dime's tone. So I contradict myself all the time.

I can only say this; spend your $$ on what YOU want. I paid up on a Schecter Masterworks and it is making me sell all my other guitars as it is built exactly to my specs which were based on years of playing and wanting tweaks. Now I have it...and it has SS Jescar 58-118 fretwire. Love it and no regrets. I will not build another guitar without SS frets. It has a massive neck and massive frets, but it is just what I wanted. I play the hell out of it and with the satin finish, it barely needs a wipe down. No maintenance per se, but I made it that way after doing years of maintenance on my guitars. Now that I have it, I wonder why I never went down this road before...but I wouldn't have had all the experience to draw this conclusion either. Being a real musician is a never ending journey whether it is skill, tone, maintenance, or just the joy of doing it.

And I like the rainbow crackle!


----------



## Zhysick

Thing is that some people find SS frets as a bad spec... Yes, new 1000 series and Black/Arctic Metal are using SS frets and it should have been easy to use in these new models but the thing is that if all 1000 series uses SS frets there is no choice for "nickel-silver fans" so... well... you get the mayor part of the models and let the "old dudes" enjoy the "old fret material" models


----------



## I play music

Zhysick said:


> As said...SS ar good for some and bad for others. I prefer nickel frets despite starting to like it in my Solar (but hated them in my previous guitars specially the Carvin I had, horrid sounding... Maybe there are some differences in INOX alloy along the fret makers...)


Maybe the horrid sound was not from the frets


----------



## Zhysick

I play music said:


> Maybe the horrid sound was not from the frets



Yeah... No, it was the frets


----------



## Emperoff

MaxOfMetal said:


> Because the majority of people who are so overwhelmingly vocal about SS frets are internet spec-queens who buy import stuff with stacked spec sheets vs. high quality guitars that might not sound as up-market on paper and act like it means they're more "in the know" about these things...while complaining they can't setup their Floyds.


----------



## I play music

MaxOfMetal said:


> Because the majority of people who are so overwhelmingly vocal about SS frets are internet spec-queens who buy import stuff with stacked spec sheets vs. high quality guitars that might not sound as up-market on paper and act like it means they're more "in the know" about these things...while complaining they can't setup their Floyds.


If I can't even setup my Floyd, how am I supposed to refret my guitar when I play them frets down? lol


----------



## MaxOfMetal

I play music said:


> If I can't even setup my Floyd, how am I supposed to refret my guitar when I play them frets down? lol



You'll pay someone who knows what they're doing to do both.


----------



## Zado

No idea fret wire was such a deal breaker for many here, damn, not even Jeff Hanneman was so obsessed with SS frets


----------



## Spicypickles

I’d wager no one here would even be able to tell the difference between them if they didn’t know beforehand, provided they were both polished.


----------



## gunshow86de

Zado said:


> No idea fret wire was such a deal breaker for many here, damn, not even Jeff Hanneman was so obsessed with SS frets



Pictured: Non-stainless frets are a deal breaker folks.


----------



## Dumple Stilzkin

Spicypickles said:


> I’d wager no one here would even be able to tell the difference between them if they didn’t know beforehand, provided they were both polished.


Have you ever owned a guitar with stainless frets? They feel different to me even compared to highly polished nickel. That said I do prefer them, but I still buy guitars with regular frets. It’s not a dealbreaker.


----------



## Spicypickles

Currently own one, yes. They are smoother, sure, but I keep my guitars in pretty good shape, so they’re all polished up. There isn’t much of a difference at all.


----------



## CovertSovietBear

What's next, carbon fiber frets w/ choice of gold, steel or nickel weave/flakes?


----------



## KnightBrolaire

CovertSovietBear said:


> What's next, carbon fiber frets w/ choice of gold, steel or nickel weave/flakes?
> View attachment 96619


nah m4 tool steel is where it's at


----------



## mbardu

ITT: there are people who prefer a certain feature on a guitar, so we're gonna make nazi jokes.

Godwin's rule is alive and well, even after all these years. 

Also:


Dumple Stilzkin said:


> Have you ever owned a guitar with stainless frets? They feel different to me even compared to highly polished nickel. That said I do prefer them, but I still buy guitars with regular frets. It’s not a dealbreaker.



Don't bother... If it's not a feature on a used Ibanez prestige, you're not supposed to like it


----------



## CanserDYI

I absolutely ADORE stainless steel frets and genuinely believe it leads to a slicker fretboard feel and much easier bending. That being said, nickel is still perfectly fine if polished correctly.


----------



## Jonathan20022

Spicypickles said:


> Currently own one, yes. They are smoother, sure, but I keep my guitars in pretty good shape, so they’re all polished up. There isn’t much of a difference at all.



Right, the difference you're willfully choosing to ignore is that it takes infinitely more effort to maintain that smoothness on nickel over time.

Everything about Stainless is about long term playability, yeah my Caparison TAT Special has the most polished Nickel frets I've personally ever seen, but they still clouded up and became oxidized in less than a month of regular play.

But yeah for sure, Nickel at it's absolute best shouldn't feel that much different to Stainless. Unfortunately it doesn't stay that way for long periods unless you remove strings and literally polish your frets.


----------



## Ross82

Jonathan20022 said:


> Right, the difference you're willfully choosing to ignore is that it takes infinitely more effort to maintain that smoothness on nickel over time.
> 
> Everything about Stainless is about long term playability, yeah my Caparison TAT Special has the most polished Nickel frets I've personally ever seen, but they still clouded up and became oxidized in less than a month of regular play.
> 
> But yeah for sure, Nickel at it's absolute best shouldn't feel that much different to Stainless. Unfortunately it doesn't stay that way for long periods unless you remove strings and literally polish your frets.




Yeah I dont feel any difference between my Caparison nickel frets and my Mayones SS frets. I polish my frets maybe 3 times a year regardless and I've never had them be overly tarnished or feel rough


----------



## I play music

MaxOfMetal said:


> You'll pay someone who knows what they're doing to do both.


The problem is I haven't found that someone within reasonable distance to my home. So I continue preferring guitars that won't need work I can't do myself.


----------



## bostjan

Ross82 said:


> Yeah I dont feel any difference between my Caparison nickel frets and my Mayones SS frets. I polish my frets maybe 3 times a year regardless and I've never had them be overly tarnished or feel rough


You polish stainless steel frets 3 times a year?!


----------



## mbardu

Calculation is pretty simple in my case.

Say I have 8 guitars with nickel frets, and I want them to feel like stainless all the time, I have to change strings every month or two and polish the frets a bit.
With stainless steel frets, not only do I have to polish them a grand total of zero times a year - I also have to change the strings way less frequently.
Stainless just doesn't damage strings as badly, especially when you rotate guitars.

So on the one hand, I could spend 20 hours of maintenance and ~400$ on strings per year.... Or on the other hand, I could save that time to practice and that $$$ to buy a 9th guitar after a while.

Alternatively, I could also play just one or two guitars with nickel frets and aggressively change strings with a quick polish every couple of weeks. I bet that's closer to the use case of most people. That would work too, and cost maybe just a bit less time/$$$. But having a bunch of guitars in different tunings, string count, bridge types and features (piezo/midi/sustainer etc) is just fun, especially when they remain effortlessly smooth to play after a day, two weeks or a couple of months. I'm lucky to be able to do so; with no intention to introduce hassle into that.


----------



## Jonathan20022

Yep, YMMV based on acidity of sweat and how conducive your environment is to cause oxidation to metals. But objectively Stainless Steel will require less routine maintenance than Nickel.

There's been so much push back, (less so nowadays) that I always thought it was hilarious how many excuses people make. It's not your problem to care as a customer about the logistics for innovation and improvement.

"Think of the tools!" - This was always the problem of the luthier/guitar tech working on guitars, there were genuine complaints about longevity of tools and needing to upgrade to diamond files just to work on Stainless Steel. Seeing techs vocally proclaim they would turn down work instead of just buying their tools and charging more for the services involving Stainless was incredibly funny to me.

"Guitar prices will increase!" - And here we are in 2021 paying 1.5k - 2.5k for guitars from Korea and Indonesia, and some (very few thankfully) of them don't even have Stainless Frets built into that absolutely massive cost increase in the last half decade!

Even as a consumer, just looking at the material cost of fretwire on Stewmac:
Nickel -



Stainless -



Just to save everyone the trouble, if we're comparing the two 68 of 82ft of Stainless runs about $106.43 (82.9%).

So your manufacturers are paying about 25% more for fretwire made from a better material and offsetting that cost onto the customer. Padding each guitar with a $10 - 20 upcharge for Stainless Steel covers the cost of the materials tenfold and you attract more clients that prefer it.

If you prefer nickel fretwire for some reason like the effect stainless has on your tone, I could buy that to some extent. But maintaining the status quo because it ain't broke is a pretty useless contribution to the conversation.

It's like gamers saying higher refresh rates are pointless when most high end phones now just feature >60hz displays as a standard. Yeah you didn't need it, but I guess there's a lot of things we didn't *need* in life that I'm sure a lot of us wouldn't want to lose


----------



## FromTheMausoleum

CovertSovietBear said:


> What's next, carbon fiber frets w/ choice of gold, steel or nickel weave/flakes?
> View attachment 96619


You joke, but I'm pretty sure there's a guitar out there with diamond frets.


----------



## Jonathan20022

FromTheMausoleum said:


> You joke, but I'm pretty sure there's a guitar out there with diamond frets.



Close enough but... 



Famously a pain in the ass to work with (The business), and completely gone now. $1500 Fretjobs didn't help I'm sure


----------



## CovertSovietBear

FromTheMausoleum said:


> You joke, but I'm pretty sure there's a guitar out there with diamond frets.


Well looks like you weren't wrong :0
Diamond encased diamond shape inlays would be sick though.


----------



## FromTheMausoleum

Jonathan20022 said:


> Close enough but...
> 
> 
> 
> Famously a pain in the ass to work with (The business), and completely gone now. $1500 Fretjobs didn't help I'm sure



Ayyy that's it!! Fun how the strings needed to be coated or the frets would destroy them instantly.


----------



## narad

Jonathan20022 said:


> Close enough but...
> 
> 
> 
> Famously a pain in the ass to work with (The business), and completely gone now. $1500 Fretjobs didn't help I'm sure




"You can have fatter fat lows, really crisp highs, and crunchy mids. And then the harmonic response is really cool too"

URGHHHHHH


----------



## Jonathan20022

narad said:


> "You can have fatter fat lows, really crisp highs, and crunchy mids. And then the harmonic response is really cool too"
> 
> URGHHHHHH



Boooooooomin lows brother


----------



## Dooky

If it doesn't have stainless steel frets on a Madagascar ebony fretboard with ivory binding then it's a piece of junk.


----------



## Dumple Stilzkin

Jonathan20022 said:


> Close enough but...
> 
> 
> 
> Famously a pain in the ass to work with (The business), and completely gone now. $1500 Fretjobs didn't help I'm sure



Where’s the crystal meth frets?


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Dumple Stilzkin said:


> Where’s the crystal meth frets?


they smoked them


----------



## Ross82

bostjan said:


> You polish stainless steel frets 3 times a year?!



I do all my Nickel guitars 2 or 3 times a year depending on how they are but I just routinely do a full strip down, fret polish, fingerboard scrub/oil etc. and just go through the same motions with the Mayones. Its been a horridly humid summer and I dont have A/C in my house so the sweat has been taking its toll. I've already done 2 polishes so far so I suspect it will be 3 before the end of the year.

*Mid-post edit*
I just did some more digging and it turns out the Mayones possibly does NOT have SS frets. I was sure they weren't SS when I got it (I'm the second owner) as they were tarnished in the higher frets, felt absolutely no different to my other guitars which are all nickel and definitely don't have the high shine of SS frets as compared to my friends Suhr. Those frets are almost tackily shiny and bright. I did a polish straight off the bat when I got it and they were markedly improved.
I checked the original seller store page and they have the specs listed as SS frets. According to the Mayones website it states that starting in 2019 the base Regius spec will be SS frets. My head stock S/N seems to indicate a 2019 model but there is possibly a secondary S/N inside the truss rod cavity which may suggest a 2018 production so I'm starting to be convinced it does not have SS frets as I had suspected. I've sent an email to Mayones to see if they could clarify so we'll see what they say.


----------



## mbardu

Ross82 said:


> I do all my Nickel guitars 2 or 3 times a year depending on how they are but I just routinely do a full strip down, fret polish, fingerboard scrub/oil etc. and just go through the same motions with the Mayones. Its been a horridly humid summer and I dont have A/C in my house so the sweat has been taking its toll. I've already done 2 polishes so far so I suspect it will be 3 before the end of the year.
> 
> *Mid-post edit*
> I just did some more digging and it turns out the Mayones possibly does NOT have SS frets. I was sure they weren't SS when I got it (I'm the second owner) as they were tarnished in the higher frets, felt absolutely no different to my other guitars which are all nickel and definitely don't have the high shine of SS frets as compared to my friends Suhr. Those frets are almost tackily shiny and bright. I did a polish straight off the bat when I got it and they were markedly improved.
> I checked the original seller store page and they have the specs listed as SS frets. According to the Mayones website it states that starting in 2019 the base Regius spec will be SS frets. My head stock S/N seems to indicate a 2019 model but there is possibly a secondary S/N inside the truss rod cavity which may suggest a 2018 production so I'm starting to be convinced it does not have SS frets as I had suspected. I've sent an email to Mayones to see if they could clarify so we'll see what they say.



If the strings wear out about the same, if you can see a significant difference between pre/post polish, and if they don't shine or look different to you from your nickel frets, then I'd say it's possible or likely that they're not stainless. The difference should be even more obvious in a hot and humid weather. When I was living in Singapore (30C++ with 80%+ humidity year round), nickel frets wore strings like crazy and the difference in oxidation (strings and their residue on frets) was fairly obvious.


----------



## Seabeast2000

bostjan said:


> You polish stainless steel frets 3 times a year?!


I refret every other string change. It's not hard.


----------



## possumkiller

Tungsten frets need to be a thing. Instead of playing catsup with SS frets, Esp need to jump ahead with tungsten.


----------



## Zado

possumkiller said:


> Tungsten frets need to be a thing. Instead of playing catsup with SS frets, Esp need to jump ahead with tungsten.


Uranium would be far more interesting


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## Ross82

Well the clarification is in, they are NS on my Mayones. It was a mid 2018 order when SS were the option not the standard.

Credit to the guy at Mayones too, I had a reply in less than 12 hours and the full order spec sheet too.


----------



## bostjan

Ross82 said:


> Well the clarification is in, they are NS on my Mayones. It was a mid 2018 order when SS were the option not the standard.
> 
> Credit to the guy at Mayones too, I had a reply in less than 12 hours and the full order spec sheet too.


I was about to say.... I have a bunch of older guitars with SS frets, I've owned them all over ten years, and I've never had any of them polished - never needed to.


----------



## Korblod

I just noticed that every "EC 1000 FR See Thru Black" from the 2021 collection that is Made in Korea is labeled in the headstock as "EC1001FR" instead of "EC1000FR" (Indonesian ones are labeled "EC1000FR" on the headstock), and in the back of the headstock, the serial # of every Korean model I've seen (I've seen at least 4 models like this), all start with "W20" wich means they were made in the year 2020, what does this means?, any insights on this?, did they actually stopped manufacturing in Korea last year and all we have left are 2020 made models with 2021 specs?


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## c7spheres

Normal frets can still last decades. Unless you're one of those corrosive sweat people.


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## Hollowway

c7spheres said:


> Normal frets can still last decades. Unless you're one of those corrosive sweat people.


Yeah, I think people freak out about nickel frets more than they need to. I had only one guitar for 20 years, and practiced, recorded, gigged, etc with it. It was only after 20 years that I had to get a refret. And I have enough guitars now that I’m not one the same one for hours per day, so these will probably be fine for multiple decades.


----------



## Gunnar

possumkiller said:


> Tungsten frets need to be a thing. Instead of playing catsup with SS frets, Esp need to jump ahead with tungsten.


https://jjlguitars.com/jjl-one


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## MrWulf

Gunnar said:


> https://jjlguitars.com/jjl-one



Those guitar looks interesting, especially the bridge and the methodology behind it. 

Too bad it will probably cost like 10k and a year or more of waiting


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## Musiscience

MrWulf said:


> Those guitar looks interesting, especially the bridge and the methodology behind it.
> 
> Too bad it will probably cost like 10k and a year or more of waiting


I remember seeing these a few years ago and they are like 50k if memory serves me right. (Yay tungsten frets! )


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## MrWulf

Holy shit 50k. If i have 50k i can think of a lot of things i can buy instead of that


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## aesthyrian

Any talk of the SD-2 yet? 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CWLkY-AJClN/

https://reverb.com/item/46594075-pre-order-esp-ltd-sd-2-sammy-duet-signature-series-electric-guitar


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## MrWulf

so basically an ESP LTD Stealth?


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## KnightBrolaire

[


aesthyrian said:


> Any talk of the SD-2 yet?
> 
> https://www.instagram.com/p/CWLkY-AJClN/
> 
> https://reverb.com/item/46594075-pre-order-esp-ltd-sd-2-sammy-duet-signature-series-electric-guitar


we were talking about it over in the gas thread. pretty hyped tbh. 


MrWulf said:


> so basically an ESP LTD Stealth?


Nah, more like a pointier charvel star.


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## Xaeldaren

Can we talk about the fact that SS frets is freaking sweet, but plastic nuts on guitars in these price ranges is bananas.


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## aesthyrian

eh, a nut is pretty cheap and easy replacement on the users end, at least compared to SS frets. If it helps them keep cost lower, I say it's a good choice since people like yourself now have the opportunity to upgrade to whatever nut material is more desirable than plastic. It definitely shouldn't be a deal breaker, at least I don't think so.


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## Xaeldaren

You're right, of course, and I really like SS frets, but it's just a Tusq nut is cheap for the customer to buy. How much can it be for a company like ESP? I'm just a grumpy fuck who doesn't want to have to mess with a guitar once I've bought it, but I probably will do because I'm hyper picky.


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## MaxOfMetal

Xaeldaren said:


> Can we talk about the fact that SS frets is freaking sweet, but plastic nuts on guitars in these price ranges is bananas.



What's wrong with plastic?



Xaeldaren said:


> You're right, of course, and I really like SS frets, but it's just a Tusq nut is cheap for the customer to buy. How much can it be for a company like ESP? I'm just a grumpy fuck who doesn't want to have to mess with a guitar once I've bought it, but I probably will do because I'm hyper picky.



What do you think GraphTech nuts are made of?


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## Xaeldaren

I thought it was some tasty proprietary material that's better than regular plastic for tuning stability. I really don't know that much, though! I just hit my strings very hard, like a caveman.


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## nickgray

Xaeldaren said:


> I thought it was some tasty proprietary material that's better than regular plastic for tuning stability



It's plastic with PTFE. Some techs don't like them all that much either, apparently, I've seen complaints that they're soft, the material is inconsistent, and they're really expensive.

In any case, to my limited knowledge, the actual geometry of the nut is what matters, the material is not that important as long as it's good enough. Nuts have a massive effect on tuning stability, as well as playability (on the first few frets especially).

So if you ask me, I'd rather that they put in cheap nuts, but actually make them properly, instead of slapping some fancy graphite shit that does nothing because some strings bind on the slots. But what sells the guitar are specs and aesthetics. LTD locking tuners are shit, but it says "locking tuners" on the spec sheet, so it's all good. Macassar Ebony has the word Ebony in it, which is good, because ebony is _better_ than rosewood. Doesn't matter that it's half heartedly stained and the they don't even bother to clean up after themselves (apparently, same issue with E-II as well - I've seen loads of complaints about stained fingers from new guitars).


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## Dumple Stilzkin

03B00148-2306-43AB-8E10-445D390AC6F3



__ Dumple Stilzkin
__ Apr 23, 2021





I quite like the Macassar ebony on my LTD 1007. Hopefully you can see in the picture, it is dark in some spots and lighter in others. This was before I conditioned it and it darkened up quite a bit.


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## Hollowway

aesthyrian said:


> eh, a nut is pretty cheap and easy replacement on the users end, at least compared to SS frets. If it helps them keep cost lower, I say it's a good choice since people like yourself now have the opportunity to upgrade to whatever nut material is more desirable than plastic. It definitely shouldn't be a deal breaker, at least I don't think so.


True, but NFW I’m upgrading an expensive guitar’s but because they reduced the prices for my by a few bucks. It’s not difficult, but it’s way more time consuming than I’d want it to be on a pricey guitar.


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## MaxOfMetal

nickgray said:


> they're really expensive



They're $12 MAP, and about half that wholesale.


----------



## jco5055

I know they are making the LTD Sammy star be a production model, but I wish ESP would bring back the Random star and make it like a regular model


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## Xaeldaren

nickgray said:


> It's plastic with PTFE. Some techs don't like them all that much either, apparently, I've seen complaints that they're soft, the material is inconsistent, and they're really expensive.
> 
> In any case, to my limited knowledge, the actual geometry of the nut is what matters, the material is not that important as long as it's good enough. Nuts have a massive effect on tuning stability, as well as playability (on the first few frets especially).
> 
> So if you ask me, I'd rather that they put in cheap nuts, but actually make them properly, instead of slapping some fancy graphite shit that does nothing because some strings bind on the slots. But what sells the guitar are specs and aesthetics. LTD locking tuners are shit, but it says "locking tuners" on the spec sheet, so it's all good. Macassar Ebony has the word Ebony in it, which is good, because ebony is _better_ than rosewood. Doesn't matter that it's half heartedly stained and the they don't even bother to clean up after themselves (apparently, same issue with E-II as well - I've seen loads of complaints about stained fingers from new guitars).



Thank you for that - I really appreciate it! I've lived a very sheltered life when it comes to gear; I know a lot about scale lengths, string tension, and what plectrums I like, but I know very little about things outside of that. That's good to know - the lack of Graphtech nuts has been a reason for me discounting a lot of nice LTDs, and now I know not to make too much of a stink out of it! I legitimately assumed they were significantly superior because it's what you see on most €1,500+ instruments, if it's not bone.


----------



## nickgray

Xaeldaren said:


> the lack of Graphtech nuts has been a reason for me discounting a lot of nice LTDs



Huh, really? Assuming you have a decent tech nearby, a nut cut from a blank should cost you around $50-100. Even then, it's likely more than enough to just lower and slightly reshape the slots if needed, which should be included in the setup price (or just ask the tech to only shape the nut, forget the whole setup). In other words, it's really not economical to discount $1k instruments based on the nut.



MaxOfMetal said:


> They're $12 MAP, and about half that wholesale



Oh, I thought they were like $20. But they're still relatively expensive compared to bone, afaik. Not that it really matters to the end consumer though.


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## Marked Man

Xaeldaren said:


> Can we talk about the fact that SS frets is freaking sweet, but plastic nuts on guitars in these price ranges is bananas.



Friends don't let friends do.....plastic. 

Inconceivable.


----------



## Marked Man

MaxOfMetal said:


> Because the majority of people who are so overwhelmingly vocal about SS frets are internet spec-queens who buy import stuff with stacked spec sheets vs. high quality guitars that might not sound as up-market on paper and act like it means they're more "in the know" about these things...while complaining they can't setup their Floyds.



Careful, the spec queens may challenge you to a pillow fight!


----------



## soul_lip_mike

MaxOfMetal said:


> Because the majority of people who are so overwhelmingly vocal about SS frets are internet spec-queens who buy import stuff with stacked spec sheets vs. high quality guitars that might not sound as up-market on paper and act like it means they're more "in the know" about these things...while complaining they can't setup their Floyds.



Thats oddly specific


----------



## Edika

Speaking of nuts, fixed bridge and trems, after owning both I find trem gutiars more flexible for tuning changes. Sure you can't do them on the fly but there's more flexibility to setup vastly different tunings on an instrument vs a fixed nut that will need reshaping or replacing. And learning Floyd setup is not complicated. It might be a bit frustrating at first and some times annoying issues arise but I know I can take a guitar from E to B standard and then back to E just by changing the string guage and not having to replace a nut along the way. Unless I keep the same heavy gauge in E after I take it down from B.


----------



## trem licking

Edika said:


> Speaking of nuts, fixed bridge and trems, after owning both I find trem gutiars more flexible for tuning changes. Sure you can't do them on the fly but there's more flexibility to setup vastly different tunings on an instrument vs a fixed nut that will need reshaping or replacing. And learning Floyd setup is not complicated. It might be a bit frustrating at first and some times annoying issues arise but I know I can take a guitar from E to B standard and then back to E just by changing the string guage and not having to replace a nut along the way. Unless I keep the same heavy gauge in E after I take it down from B.


Not having to file a nut ever is glorious


----------



## bigsimpin

Edika said:


> Speaking of nuts, fixed bridge and trems, after owning both I find trem gutiars more flexible for tuning changes. Sure you can't do them on the fly but there's more flexibility to setup vastly different tunings on an instrument vs a fixed nut that will need reshaping or replacing. And learning Floyd setup is not complicated. It might be a bit frustrating at first and some times annoying issues arise but I know I can take a guitar from E to B standard and then back to E just by changing the string guage and not having to replace a nut along the way. Unless I keep the same heavy gauge in E after I take it down from B.



Yes! It took me awhile to realise this. 

Why can't we have factory equipped locking fixed bridges, and factory lockable (or dive only) floating trems. The use case is there, and so many benefits, so why not give us the features?


----------



## nickgray

bigsimpin said:


> factory lockable (or dive only) floating trems



This one is genuinely insane. By far the biggest complaint about FRs is that they take "forever" to setup, they're a pain in the ass, and basically people just don't know any better. All of that is laughably easy to resolve - you block the trem in the cavity (the side towards the neck), and crank the spring tension a bit. That's it. It's a fixed bridge now. You can take of all the strings no problem. To get it back - simply retune and make sure to stretch the strings well, and just ease the spring tension until your block is loose. It'll get you 99% there.

So why in the world didn't any guitar or trem manufacturers include an easily installable block? To top it off, instead of that asinine spring claw, they could've easily used (for high end trem at least) a nicer design with a gear or something that you could turn with just one hex wrench, and it would move all of the springs. Schaller sells something quite similar. Ibanez came up with a semi-cool idea with their ZPS system. In addition, include a basic pressure gauge so that you'd know exactly when the block falls off, and how much pressure you need to add so that bends don't pull the trem up.

Another annoying thing is the string retainer bar. I might be missing something, but the whole purpose of the bar is to make the strings sit flush on the nut, so that when you clamp, the clamps don't push the strings, making them go sharp. But why the hell is the angle so steep on the nuts in the first place? You clamp the strings either way. Angled headstocks seem to be the norm for FR equipped guitars. I'm pretty sure I've seen Ibanez nuts without a retainer bar.


----------



## gnoll

I also hate the LTD plastic nuts and I would not buy those guitars ever. To me it's mostly about how it seems like they care more about cost cutting than making good instruments. Makes me lose respect for the brand really. Even if I could change the nut out, I don't want to.


----------



## cardinal

Edika said:


> Speaking of nuts, fixed bridge and trems, after owning both I find trem gutiars more flexible for tuning changes. Sure you can't do them on the fly but there's more flexibility to setup vastly different tunings on an instrument vs a fixed nut that will need reshaping or replacing. And learning Floyd setup is not complicated. It might be a bit frustrating at first and some times annoying issues arise but I know I can take a guitar from E to B standard and then back to E just by changing the string guage and not having to replace a nut along the way. Unless I keep the same heavy gauge in E after I take it down from B.


When I spec'd out custom guitars, I wanted bolt-ons with Floyd Rose. Basically all aspects of the set up can be adjusted with just shimming something.


----------



## /wrists

Dumple Stilzkin said:


> 03B00148-2306-43AB-8E10-445D390AC6F3
> 
> 
> 
> __ Dumple Stilzkin
> __ Apr 23, 2021
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I quite like the Macassar ebony on my LTD 1007. Hopefully you can see in the picture, it is dark in some spots and lighter in others. This was before I conditioned it and it darkened up quite a bit.


how did you darken it and can I see a pic of the result?


----------



## Dumple Stilzkin

evade said:


> how did you darken it and can I see a pic of the result?


All I did was use some fretboard oil on it. It’s not black, that was never my intention to dye it. I like the streaks. But there’s threads on here you can search for if you want to dye yours black.


----------



## AltecGreen

I have a pet peeve about the term plastic.

Plastic is a very general term and is the same as metal. Not all plastics are cheap. Go price some Vespel. Torlon would make a great nut material.


----------



## Seabeast2000

0h yeah I wonder if HMPWE would be a good nut.


----------



## gnoll

The point is as far as I'm aware LTD uses *the same* cheap plastic nut both on the absolute cheapest models and on the models that are really quite expensive. If I'm wrong and they use some really fancy engineered mega-plastic on the expensive guitars then I'd be interested to learn about it.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

No one has yet to explain what's wrong with the nut itself, only that it's "cheap". As if anyone knows what the actual cost is vs. anything else wholesale on the scale that ESP would purchase.


----------



## Hoss632

gnoll said:


> The point is as far as I'm aware LTD uses *the same* cheap plastic nut both on the absolute cheapest models and on the models that are really quite expensive. If I'm wrong and they use some really fancy engineered mega-plastic on the expensive guitars then I'd be interested to learn about it.


E-II and above use bone or graphite nuts.


----------



## gnoll

MaxOfMetal said:


> No one has yet to explain what's wrong with the nut itself, only that it's "cheap". As if anyone knows what the actual cost is vs. anything else wholesale on the scale that ESP would purchase.



Why would we want to find out all the things wrong with it when we could just avoid it...



Hoss632 said:


> E-II and above use bone or graphite nuts.



Yeah I'm just talking about the LTDs, some of which are already pretty expensive. It used to be the case that as you went up in price you got better specs. Now I don't really know what you pay for.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

gnoll said:


> Why would we want to find out all the things wrong with it when we could just avoid it...



That's a cop out. Again, just complaining for the sake of it.


----------



## narad

_I would not use a plastic nut,
I would not any way they're cut,
I do not want them on my axe,
and do not ask me to relax!
I do not like this plastic nut,
and do not ask me to shut up!_


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Seabeast2000 said:


> 0h yeah I wonder if HMPWE would be a good nut.


Nah, UHMPWE is a fucking nightmare to work with. Also not really necessary for a nut as it would take forever to shape and it gives a very dull/mellow tone compared to other hard wearing thermoplastics. I love it for picks though.


----------



## gnoll

MaxOfMetal said:


> That's a cop out. Again, just complaining for the sake of it.



Kinda yeah. But,

1) I like complaining.

2) I really dislike when brands seem to sneakily cut corners after they've established a name for themselves by making good stuff. I want manufacturers to really care deeply about making kickass stuff. When it seems like they don't I get really disappointed.


----------



## thomas.reuter

https://reverb.com/item/46872041-es...r-7-7-string-electric-guitar-w-case-pre-order


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

thomas.reuter said:


> https://reverb.com/item/46872041-es...r-7-7-string-electric-guitar-w-case-pre-order



Took me a second to realize why this was posted.  Pretty cool they went with the 27'' scale on a 7-string.


----------



## thomas.reuter

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Took me a second to realize why this was posted.  Pretty cool they went with the 27'' scale on a 7-string.


Yup, saw it on my reverb feed and haven't seen it anywhere else on the internet so I figured I'd share it here.


----------



## MrWulf

1999$ lol. Inflation is here and real

Welp, at this rate in 5 years my Schecter collection is gonna be like what, 3 times its value?


----------



## Loomer

I'm wondering though: Are they, or anyone else for that matter, even planning on releasing new stuff for 2022?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Loomer said:


> I'm wondering though: Are they, or anyone else for that matter, even planning on releasing new stuff for 2022?



Don't expect anything until spring/summer and mostly color/dress refreshes.


----------



## OmegaSlayer

thomas.reuter said:


> https://reverb.com/item/46872041-es...r-7-7-string-electric-guitar-w-case-pre-order


The first Reyes was very cool, the high tier one with the Schaller Hannes


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

I just wish they'd do more with the Mystique shape. It's probably the best PRS knockoff shape ever.


----------



## MrWulf

I fuckin hate that headstock though


----------



## devastone

MaxOfMetal said:


> Don't expect anything until spring/summer and mostly color/dress refreshes.



In the motorcycle world this is referred to as BNG (bold new graphics), if a manufacturer hasn't changed anything for the year, they usually use this term to describe the new stickers.


----------



## Crash Dandicoot

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I just wish they'd do more with the Mystique shape. It's probably the best PRS knockoff shape ever.



Incoming o p i n i o n


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Crash Dandicoot said:


> Incoming o p i n i o n



That shape died the death it deserved.

BTW, new 2022 teases coming. I'mma make a new thread.


----------



## Crash Dandicoot

@HeHasTheJazzHands you fiend!

I'll be seeing you in the 2022 thread


----------



## AkiraSpectrum

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I just wish they'd do more with the Mystique shape. It's probably the best PRS knockoff shape ever.


 The Mystique shape is great! I also really like the Potbelly shape too, which is very PRS-ish as well.

That said, the Mystique is a more comfortable guitar because of the thinner body and belly-cut, unlike the Potbelly which has a thick body and no belly-cut. 

I don't think the Potbelly shape sold well as an LTD model when it was out in the 2006-2010 (?) era. The Mystique MIGHT work well as an LTD and would likely sell better.


----------



## AkiraSpectrum

Crash Dandicoot said:


> Incoming o p i n i o n


i like the potbelly too!
just picked up an old LTD version


----------

