# ESP/LTD Comparison Day (Japan through Indonesia)



## feraledge (Nov 1, 2013)

So after doing a Jackson comparison, I figured I'd do an ESP one as well since I've had more experience with them and have owned a LOT more. 
Hopefully this is helpful. 

*ESP Eclipse II*
*Made in Japan, 2005*





I love this guitar and it's the only ESP that I still own and plan on keeping. The only reason that I would sell this guitar are to get an Eclipse with a Floyd. 
In some cases the stretch between ESP and LTD lines are a bit less clear than in the Eclipse. The ESPs have a set thru mahogany neck/body, but also a more substantial maple top. Gives it a bit more bite and a bit more even weighted. Not an ounce of neck dive with this guitar, ever. The neck is amazing and on a Les Paul style guitar, the thin C still feels thin enough to shred. 
For the life of me, I can't figure out why ESP will put Tonepros bridges on 600 and 1000 series LTDs, but not Standard Series, but I made the jump in all of my ESP Standards. 
I'll say it here, but all Japanese ESPs that I've owned have phenomenal fret work.

*ESP MII Deluxe*
*Made in Japan, 1992*




This was my favorite ESP of everything I've played and owned. The extra thin flat neck is great and somewhere between Jackson's Speed neck and a Wizard. Alder body, bolt on maple neck, dual EMG 81s were stock. This guitar was one of the most brutal guitars I'd ever played. 
This was a "Pre-Sig" KH. Ironic since in 92 the KH was born, but skull and bones inlays, KH control layout and, bridge aside, same specs as the KH.
The downside; ESP branded, Floyd-style Kahler. On this guitar, the bridge needed enough new parts to warrant replacement, but an OFR would've taken a fill and drill. I wasn't feeling it and parted ways. 
If you come across one of these with a solid bridge, jump on it. 

*ESP MI*
*Made in Japan, 2009*




In many ways this was my dream guitar before my Floyd conversion. I was a neck thru diehard, so a maple neck thru with an alder body, string thru TOM, straightforward shred guitar was right up my alley. And I really did love this guitar. 
I did have it routed for a neck pickup and I regretted it. The well respected luthier routed it about 1/16" off center which is way worse in person than it sounds. To me it was super obvious because I had, in my eyes, ruined the guitar. 
But after getting the '92 MII Deluxe, I was forced to recognize that while this guitar was awesome (unpainted necks reign supreme), it wasn't quite what I hoped it would've been. The MII sounded insanely heavier, felt better and had a much, much thinner neck (MI has an extra thin U). 

*ESP Horizon NT-II*
*Made in Japan, 2008*




I first got the chance to feel this guitar when an ESP endorsed friend came through on tour. Love at first sight confirmed by playability. Mahogany body, substantial quilted maple top, and maple neck thru design with thin U shape. No Wizard in the shred department, but thin enough to get around on easily and comfortably. The tones on this are amazingly thick with enough maple to brighten it up for articulation and attack. 
I have nothing bad to say about this guitar. I sold it because it wasn't shreddy enough to be a constant go to and it was worth enough money to sell when I was in a serious pre-baby pinch. My Jackson SL2H (Sam Ash SLAT-y edition) is very, very similar so that keeps me at bay and it has a Floyd. If I had the cash, I'd have another one of these. Sand the neck to satin and you're good to go. 

*ESP Viper*
*Made in Japan, 2003*




The dark horse! I love SGs, but it took me a bit to come around on the Viper design. But no regrets. Mahogany body with set thru mahogany neck and the neck heel deserves recognition. Absolutely loved it and it felt really good. 
This guitar was ridiculously light, but still fully resonant. Dual EMG 81s were stock. The thin U on this guitar also felt flatter than any other ESP thin U that I've owned. 
The real kicker here though was the bound ebony fretboard. The fretboard/neck on this guitar were absolute top notch in terms of look, feel and quality, even on a guitar that was in beater condition and clearly mistreated for a decade or so. 

*LTD M1000*
*Made in Korea, 2006*




Beauty of a guitar. Alder body, maple neck thru body, extra thin U neck with a really fine flame maple top. The 2006 models were the last to get an Original Floyd Rose. Sharp, articulate, without taking a total hit on the resonance. Considering that I got this for $550 used, I couldn't complain too much. 
The obvious question: does it hold up to the ESP Standards? Not quite, but it holds it's own ground. 
The biggest con on this guitar was a copious amount of poly finish. Not unheard of these days, but considering how stiff this guitar is, the uber gloss/thick finish bulked up the neck a bit and made it feel a bit less worthy of the original $1000 price tag. 

*LTD H1000*
*Made in Korea, 2006*




*Stock photo*
I won't go into detail since I only had this for a month to try it out thanks to a good friend. Maple neck through mahogany body and, of course, the iconic cockstock. Sounded great, compared it with one of the MH400NTs that I'll mention below and went with the MH because I got an insane deal on it. I primarily wanted to mention that there was a very significant weight difference between the H1000 and MH400NT. Same year, I believe the same factory, very similar specs, but like 2-3 pound difference. For what it's worth...

*LTD EC 1000 SSB*
*Made in Korea, 2010*




Not a far shot from the ESP, but noticeable differences. This is definitely an excellent guitar, but has a hard time comparing with the ESP Eclipse. Mahogany body with set thru mahogany neck. 24 frets are a definite perk in the LTD line in my opinion, but the 24.75" scale remains. The maple top in the ESP definitely adds a sonic dimension that the lesser LTD veneers aren't going to hit. Still resonant, but less bite. 
I will say that no LTD EC that I've tried has had the same flawless balance as the ESP version. The 1000 was good, but the 400 below was noticeably worse.

*LTD MH400/401NT, H401* 
*Made in Korea/Indonesia*




So I've actually owned 3 MH400/401s and one H401 (non-cockstock, almost identical specs). 2 of the MHs were made in Korea, both 401s were made in Indonesia. Maple neck set thru mahogany body with a quilted maple top (flamed on the H), string thru body TOM. 
These are serious workhorse guitars. The least I paid for one was $225 (total buddy hook up), the most was $425, all used. I've toured with them and have had zero issues. Sanding the neck to satin is always a solid way to go, but these are reliable. When I was just down to two guitars and wanted consistency, this is the way to go. I've recorded with them and I know they've seen much bigger stages and recording studios than I've taken them to. When looking for a sub-$500 guitar, this is in my top 5 recommendations, every time. 
I prefer the thinner necks of a Jackson or Ibanez these days, but I won't bad mouth these guitars. 
I will say that I've checked out more recent made in China models and they don't hold up to the Indonesian runs which are also not as good as the Korean runs.
General rule of thumb, the further back you go with LTD models, the better the neck/fretwork. Also, the 2006 MH had natural binding, which looked killer. 

*LTD H301/400*
*Made in Korea*




I've owned two of these and nearly everything that I've said about the MHs holds true. The last 301 I had was from 2003 and the fretwork was comparable to Japanese Jacksons and very close to ESP quality. 
TOM bridge with stoptail adds a difference in the tone. A little sharper IMO. 
And, of course, cockstocks! 

*LTD Viper 400*
*Made in Korea*




Total disclosure, this guitar is currently in the for sale section. Great guitar, but I'm in full Floyd mode these days. 
Mahogany neck set thru mahogany body. TOM bridge and tailpiece. Resonant and lightweight. Neck dive issues fixed easily by moving the strap pin to the upper horn. 
The neck heel is an obvious throwback to Gibson's SG, but it is clunky compared to the ESP Viper heel. It's not in the way, but the ESP clearly wins on this one. The body on the LTD is also thicker and the whole guitar is probably 1-2 pounds heavier. EMG 81/85s are stock. 

*LTD FX400SM*
*Made in Indonesia, 2009*




Any ESP fan has to have a soft spot for explorers, right? Comes with the territory. The EX/FX shape was a hard sell for me, but the shreddy explorer was a no brainer. EMG 81/60s come standard and unpainted/oiled neck was a definite perk. The spalted maple top is hard to touch. Looks amazing and got plenty of comments. 
Mahogany body with set thru mahogany neck. Neck heel is similar to Gibson. Resonant, maple veneer is probably thin enough that it didn't add a ton of dimension to it, but it did it's job. 
The weight was a bit uneven. Not the worst neck dive, but that's helped because the upper wing lies against your arm while playing. I trust an ESP version could have been really, really impressive. 

*LTD EC400AT*
*Made in Korea, 2004?*




I can't really give this guitar a full review since it needed wiring work and I didn't have the time for it in the brief period that I owned it. It recently was fixed up and sold on this forum at least 2 owners after me. Glad to see it's still getting love. 
If you love LPs, this is a good option. ESP thin U neck, but full thickness body to add some Gibson flavor into it. But what really stands out here was the neck/fretboard/binding. Just amazingly done for a lower price production guitar and dare I say, up to Japanese ESP standards without question.

*LTD EC401FM*
*Made in Indonesia, 2010*




Another beauty as far as looks go, but this is one where the quality drop from ESP to 1000 series to 400 series is definitely noticeable. This is the only EC that I've owned where the neck dive was a bit of an issue. The flamed maple veneer looks great, but wasn't enough to add to the sound. Good guitar, but definite difference in the quality that's hard to overlook. 



Hope this is helpful!


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Nov 1, 2013)

Good to see you liked the EC-400AT. I was considering one of those when I was looking for a legit Les Paul-style guitar for cheap. Still want one, too.


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## feraledge (Nov 1, 2013)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Good to see you liked the EC-400AT. I was considering one of those when I was looking for a legit Les Paul-style guitar for cheap. Still want one, too.



I personally prefer the thinner Eclipse style body, but for what I had in mind at the time a thicker body with passives fit the bill without feeling out of range next to my ESP. 
Those EC1000 Ts can definitely be enticing. White with black binding is so awesome, but the gold hardware on white isn't doing it for me. Plus I don't really have a need for that right now. Just total fantasyland GAS mode.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Nov 1, 2013)

I like hefty guitars, which is why I was looking at the 400AT or the 1000T/CTM. Both fit the bill for me, really, but I wish they had a maple neck. 

And maybe change the hardware on the EC-1000T? Or check out one of the new EC-1000S's. They're stripped-down EC-1000s without the Abalone are are around $750.


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## HellGamer666 (Nov 1, 2013)

Another great comparison thread! You really are a guy who likes his EMGs. My personal favourite guitar from the ones you've posted was the M-I. Love most of the LTD range, too.


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## ridner (Nov 1, 2013)

ESP/LTD 

definitely some of my favorite guitars by far! I love the necks, I love the shapes and they are very consistent instruments - all the way from the lower end LTDs up to the nicest ESP line. it doesn't get much better in my book!


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## powerofze (Nov 1, 2013)

Really liking these comparison threads. Good stuff!


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## Slaeyer (Nov 1, 2013)

feraledge said:


> *ESP MII Deluxe*
> *Made in Japan, 1992*
> 
> 
> ...



I own one of this pre KH2 MIIs with an OFR. It really rocks!
It already had a floyd-style tremolo fitted, still when changing some parts I had to enlarge the trem routing..... Still this beauty is one of the nicest guitars I own....

Do you still know what the headstock said besides ESP, was it M II Deluxe or Custom (like mine)??


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## feraledge (Nov 1, 2013)

Glad to know that these were killer on the whole. 
Mine said custom shop.


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## feraledge (Nov 1, 2013)

Also, I kept talking about the Viper heel and didn't post pics. You can really get a better feel from the upper flank view.


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## feraledge (Nov 1, 2013)

powerofze said:


> Really liking these comparison threads. Good stuff!



Thanks! I do what I can. 

And if anyone from ESP is reading this, I would love to be able toss an LTD Elite MII (amber) into the comparison list.


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## AkiraSpectrum (Nov 1, 2013)

Another great post!!!
Thanks a lot. I own a couple LTD's myself: EC-1000 08-09ish and a Viper Baritone 300 'early 2000's and they are definitely great guitars. I've played a few LTD's in stores before and they were also well-built instruments. LTD is definitely one of the most consistent brands in the under $1K price range that I've seen.


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## feraledge (Nov 1, 2013)

AkiraSpectrum said:


> Another great post!!!
> Thanks a lot. I own a couple LTD's myself: EC-1000 08-09ish and a Viper Baritone 300 'early 2000's and they are definitely great guitars. I've played a few LTD's in stores before and they were also well-built instruments. LTD is definitely one of the most consistent brands in the under $1K price range that I've seen.



Without a doubt. I think they also have the most consistent series numbering out of all guitar companies. With very brief exception, if you know the model number and year, you'll have a really solid expectation for quality and tone.


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## nugget666 (Nov 2, 2013)

i remember you posted about the M-I on other forum, what a shame about the bad routing job


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## sunil999 (Nov 18, 2013)

hi guys,,,, i have the same pre KH2 guitar.. skull and cross bones.. schaller trem and says custom on the headstock.. anybody know how much its worth? someone wants to buy from me


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## feraledge (Oct 6, 2014)

Necrobumping my own thread, but just saw it and wanted to add this to the mix:

*ESP LTD ELITE M-II
Made in Japan, 2013*




These guitars got a bad rep because ESP had a dumb branding idea. I get it, it was dumb to announce a new line for just under one whole year. BUT, I consider these guitars to be sleepers. They are ESP Standard Series quality and were absorbed into the E-II line for about $200 more per model the following year. I have had no issues with mine at all and I got it for a killer price.
The maple cap is a pure cap, not a veneer. I'm falling out of love with the EMGs and will replace them soon, but that's just my preference, they are what they are. The build and construction are flawless and the burst is absolute beauty. 
So, FWIW, if you find a killer deal on an LTD Elite, don't pass it up. They might not hold value over time or they might, who knows. Either way, ridiculous deals for awesome guitars.


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## schecter58 (Oct 7, 2014)

I enjoyed this thread, as I am looking at purchasing an LTD EC-1000 in the future.


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## viper (Oct 7, 2014)

What did you do to that M-I nooooooooo. I would never do that to mine.


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## feraledge (Mar 31, 2015)

I clearly wrote the initial post when I was on my search for the thinnest and flattest necks out there. A path that led me to sore wrists and back to recognizing that ESP's thin U is awesome. Extra thin U? Love it too. But Ibanez wasn't cutting it for me. 
Shame on me for trying to say ESP's Thin U isn't shredworthy!
I actually have a bunch of guitars to add to this list and I'll be getting to that probably today. That list includes Signature Series LTD, another LTD Elite, a bunch of Standard Series ESPs, and an E-II. 

I was wrong on one point above. Badly placed glare caused me to forget that my 90s ESP M-II was a "Custom" not a "Deluxe". Still one of the best guitars I'd ever owned, but replacing that bridge would've been a very costly venture.


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## Dekay82 (Mar 31, 2015)

Great, comprehensive post. I was an RG man until I got my LTD KH-602. I love it, it's my go to, the extra thin U is unbelievable. I actually like it more than my ESP SRC-6 (which was a holy grail of mine and I do love), but dat neck on the KH, so sweet.

I'm lucky enough to have a decent guitar collection and my father in law is a pro with 40+ guitars spanning probably about 60 years worth of models, and ESP kills them all. I'm no fan boy, they just slay.


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## ToneLab (Mar 31, 2015)

Great thread. Thanks for bumping.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Apr 1, 2015)

Honestly, I was only interested in checking out the LTDs and ESPs.


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## HotKarl (Apr 1, 2015)

I used to own an '04 LTD Viper 400, and mine weighed a ton. Very nice guitar for the price ($535 brand new), but I was mostly an apartment living room sit-down player at the time, and the I could not jive with the offset contours of the body. I traded it about 18 months later. Wonderful guitar, just not for me.


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## Millul (Apr 1, 2015)

Mmmhhh....care to resuscitate that Jackson comparison thread? GAS is hitting me already, since I've recently become Jackson-less...!


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## Shask (Apr 1, 2015)

feraledge said:


> I clearly wrote the initial post when I was on my search for the thinnest and flattest necks out there. A path that led me to sore wrists and back to recognizing that ESP's thin U is awesome. Extra thin U? Love it too. But Ibanez wasn't cutting it for me.
> Shame on me for trying to say ESP's Thin U isn't shredworthy!
> I actually have a bunch of guitars to add to this list and I'll be getting to that probably today. That list includes Signature Series LTD, another LTD Elite, a bunch of Standard Series ESPs, and an E-II.
> 
> I was wrong on one point above. Badly placed glare caused me to forget that my 90s ESP M-II was a "Custom" not a "Deluxe". Still one of the best guitars I'd ever owned, but replacing that bridge would've been a very costly venture.


Yep. That is why I cant do flat/thin necks.

I wish they made a M series with the Thin U neck! That would be my perfect ESP combination.

I have owned several LTDs through the years. Great guitars!

I am actually looking at the Schecter Banshee at the moment. Thin neck, but still rounded enough.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Apr 1, 2015)

.... thin/flat necks and their inevitable broken headstock glue lines.


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## feraledge (Apr 1, 2015)

Shask said:


> Yep. That is why I cant do flat/thin necks.
> 
> I wish they made a M series with the Thin U neck! That would be my perfect ESP combination.
> 
> ...



I love the thin flat U on my M-II I think it might just work better for me because of that 12" radius. I have no answer for it, but it's the only neck that thin that I get no fatigue on, but maybe that's because the high end is like an open invitation on that guitar. No idea what's up there, but I noodle on that guitar unlike any other. 
I wanted to hate the Banshee, because, well, it's Schecter. But I've tried two and they were absolutely killer guitars. The neck is like an ideal thin C. Not too unlike a Wizard III which is the only Ibanez neck that I retrospectively got along with.


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## feraledge (Apr 1, 2015)

Where to start. 
First off, I have some crappy pics in this thread so far. Let me see if I can add better pics of any of the guitar mentioned so far...


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## feraledge (Apr 2, 2015)

*LTD BS-7
Made in Korea, 2014*




I've owned many ESPs, but for some reason never a sig LTD. Guess it's not usually my bag and I'm hardly a Whitechapel fan, but Ben Savage KILLED these specs:
* Horizon with alder body, flamed maple cap, and maple neck thru
* Tung oil finished maple neck and fretboard
* FR1000
* C0CKSTOCK!
* Direct mount PUPs
It's the first time I've ever felt absolutely at home on a 7 and possibly the most I've been inspired to write by any guitar since fulfilling my centuries worth of Explorer GAS with a Gibson Gothic Explorer (the fling was sadly short lived, that guitar felt like it was not meant to be played). One of my favorite ESP necks ever. 
Love it. The only thing I did was swap the Crunch Lab for a D Activator. I'm a happy camper. 

*ESP M-II Bolt on/Maple fretboard
Made in Japan, 2008.*




Don't know why I only have it in a group shot. I still own this and play it almost every day. I never got over selling my 90s M-II Custom, so here we are again. This is one of the most effortless guitars I've ever played. Despite everything I've said about Ibanez necks killing my wrists, this extra thin flat neck still works fine for me. Who knows. It also made me realize that I like a 12" radius above anything and everything else. Maple fretboard is icing on an excellent cake. The guitar sounds brutal and the JB is a great match for it. The upper register on this is totally inviting for inexplicable reasons. 
To any other ESP nerds like myself who have been spoiled by some well crafted neck thru heels, don't fear the bolt on! It doesn't get in the way, it doesn't feel cheap in any way, and it adds some brutality to the cut. 

*LTD Elite Horizon III
Made in Japan, 2013.*




Everything I've said about my LTD Elite M-II earlier is both absolutely true and 100% applicable to this case. The H3 body shape took a while to grow on me, but damn it feels nice and any second thoughts I had were out the window instantly. 
The offset body is actually a bit more comfortable, and if you like the Horizon I/II and feel like the body is jabbing your forearm, well problem solved. Alder body, maple neck thru. One of the best parts of the LTD Elite line? Black hardware!! Looks great. 
ZERO difference in quality with any of my Standard Series. 
Here it is with my LTD Elite M-II and ESP SS Horizon FR 2 to compare body shapes, size and neck cutaway/lower horn access.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Apr 2, 2015)

I lost my GAS for a 7-string awhile back, but every time I see the BS-7, I neeeeed it.


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## feraledge (Apr 2, 2015)

*ESP Horizon FR 2
Made in Japan, 2012.*




You can't have ESPs and not have a Horizon, right? Flagship guitar and for a reason. 2012 is one of the rare times when the US market had a ton of SS Horizon options. This is alder body and maple neck thru, which is a rare spec for a Horizon available in the US, but definitely appreciated in my eyes. These guitars are a work of art. IMO, not many of their finishes touch the dark brown sun burst (DBSB for those in the know), but the see thru black is still a classic move. 
Another killer guitar. I'll hate to see this one go, but the replacement should demolish everything. I have to be honest though that the stock JB bridge PUP just never felt like it was resonating with this guitar and making it sing like it should (and does acoustically). I tried the JB, Black Winters, and Nazgul, all solid SD PUP options, but gave the Duncan Distortion a shot and that was the one (and that's what's in there now). I think this guitar just has so much musicality to it that it needs a bit more of a balanced PUP to bring out its natural heaviness. If I were to do it again, like in an ESP custom shop guitar (hint, hint), I'd go with an Air Norton/D Activator set, but I have nothing bad to say about the 59/Distortion combo. 

*LTD M330 Maple Prototype
Made in China, 2011 (?)*




Total impulse buy. This was an absolutely unexpected surprise, but it's always been a head scratcher as to why LTD never made a budget version of the bolt M-II. As always, the fine folks at 6-String.com nabbed this one and had a crazy deal on it. I bought it to hold over my M-II GAS, but I ended up jumping on the real deal when I could and as rad as this guitar is, it went to another GAS head who can be really impressed with it. 
So here's the deal, this is a really well done guitar AND it is made in China. BUT it is also a prototype and probable show/rep model. So it had some bells and whistles; the frets got some extra attention, the set up was done well, it came with Seymour Duncan PUPs. All said and done, it played and sounded great. 
Is it a representation of the Chinese LTDs? Probably not, but maybe. At the very least, with a solid set up and maybe a little extra attention to the frets, they can be workhorse guitars like any other mid-to-upper range LTD. 

*LTD TE212
Made in China, 201X*




I bought this to scratch that inevitable tele GAS. It has some perks, the neck was decent, it's really cheap. Could be a solid modding platform, but it would take some work. The PUPs in it, to me, were horrible. The only good sound from them was strangely the middle position. Two wrongs makes a right? The bridge was no bueno. Did not want to stay in tune. It looks like the newer 400 series TEs have a Hipshot style bridge which is probably a great improvement. 
But to answer your question, the bridge is routed for a single coil Tele PUP. You cannot fit a full sized humbucker there without routing. 

*LTD ST203FR
Made in China, 2010. *




Now this was a cool platform. I didn't dig the distress, but at the time, it was the best option and, of course, very cheap. But it played really nice and sounded good once I upgraded the bridge to a non-branded SD. I think it was a JB, but I honestly can't say for sure. Alder body, not a cheap basswood (not knocking basswood in any way though!). I had it in mind to do a mock SoCal make over, but then the Jackson SDX came out not long after and it was a much better starting point. So I ditched it and went the SDX route. If it didn't have the dumb distress, I probably would've held tight on this one. A fun guitar to say the least. 

*E-II ST2 
Made in Japan, 2012. *




Okay, I held this one till last. Let me start with a caveat. I _truly believe_ everything that says that the E-II line is the exact same line that the Standard Series and LTD Elite line held. Those guitars were all superior guitars in my eyes and, in the end, I chose them over USA Jackson guitars when it came down to it. I've seen plenty of evidence to support that. 
BUT my sole experience here was less than stellar. The attention to detail was off. The faux-binding was taped off badly, not a huge crime considering that Tiger's Eye on flamed maple is a stunner, but still not good. The real issue here was the wretched fret work. QC didn't work as it should and when I crowned and polished it off, there were 4 whole frets that were too tall and 4 partial frets. Dead spots were everywhere on the fretboard. After crowning and polishing, it played really, really nicely. So not like some absolutely loss and it wasn't like the neck was twisted and jacked. Just missing that attention all my ESPs have and got. 
In the end, I tried this out for less than a week and boxed it back up while it currently sits up on the Bay. I just didn't fall in love with it. The biggest fault is with the neck. It honestly feels more like a U then a Thin U to my hands. And that's an absolute shame because the tone of this guitar is crushing. That's where they nailed this model. The basswood body with maple cap, bolt on maple neck combination is resonant and still able to fully cover into hair metal or death metal territory. But those custom wound Dimarzio PUPs are the absolute draw here. They nailed this one! With the coil splitting there are five tonal options right off the bat and all of them just sound amazing. I have nothing bad to say there, but the guitar overall just didn't vibe with me, so on it went. 
AGAIN, I believe I just got the exception, not the rule. I would gladly give the E-II line a shot. And if ESP wants to send me one, I'd gladly write up about it here and give another lengthy NGD post!


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## feraledge (Apr 2, 2015)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I lost my GAS for a 7-string awhile back, but every time I see the BS-7, I neeeeed it.



That's exactly what I said. That BS-7 has haunted me for years. Now that I have it, I can't put it down. It MAKES me want to play a 7. Such a great guitar.


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## Millul (Apr 2, 2015)

Feral, you're killing me here...SO, you're saying that the offset shape of the Horizon III prevents the forearm to be "spiked" by the body edge? Hence, I CAN get an Horizon after all??!?!

I don't know if I'd rather thank you for the good news, or curse for the loss of money I already feel coming my way.


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## Shask (Apr 2, 2015)

feraledge said:


> I love the thin flat U on my M-II I think it might just work better for me because of that 12" radius. I have no answer for it, but it's the only neck that thin that I get no fatigue on, but maybe that's because the high end is like an open invitation on that guitar. No idea what's up there, but I noodle on that guitar unlike any other.
> I wanted to hate the Banshee, because, well, it's Schecter. But I've tried two and they were absolutely killer guitars. The neck is like an ideal thin C. Not too unlike a Wizard III which is the only Ibanez neck that I retrospectively got along with.



Maybe because ESP has a narrow nut/neck width? You dont have to reach as far to fret the top string? I used to be a big Ibanez guy, but had to sell years ago due to wrist issues. The M-1000 was one of the first guitars I bought afterwards. I had a solid black one. I remember that neck feeling thin, but not too thin. At the time it still gave me issues so I didn't keep it, but thinking back, there might have been other issues than just the neck thickness. I had a MH for years afterwards.

That is funny you say Ibanez Wizard III. I think I am the only one that likes newer Ibanez necks better! lol I had all the old ones people want now, and I wouldnt be able to play them today. Too thin/flat. I actually bought a cheap RG with a Wizard II and sanded it down to be rounder. That guitar plays killer now! Almost makes me want to put some $$ into it to make it a better guitar. Put an OFR in it.

I am thinking about buying a nice bolt on, Floyd superstrat. I have been trying to think of what my best choices would be if I wanted a rounded neck, flat top, and probably narrow nut. The M-II and Banshee are definitely at the top of the list. Some other interesting choices are Carvin, Jackson Dinky, EBMM, etc....


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## feraledge (Apr 3, 2015)

Millul said:


> Feral, you're killing me here...SO, you're saying that the offset shape of the Horizon III prevents the forearm to be "spiked" by the body edge? Hence, I CAN get an Horizon after all??!?!
> 
> I don't know if I'd rather thank you for the good news, or curse for the loss of money I already feel coming my way.



You'll thank me... eventually. 
Give it a shot. I noticed that immediately. I find the Horizon to be a really comfortable guitar, but I went for a quite a while before where I was pretty much just playing flat top guitars with forearm cuts, so when I'd go back to the Horizon after a while, it stood out to me, but not for long. That's me personally though, I can't get past guitars that are flat top with no forearm contour without an arch top. We all have our "thing".


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## feraledge (Apr 3, 2015)

Shask said:


> Maybe because ESP has a narrow nut/neck width? You dont have to reach as far to fret the top string? I used to be a big Ibanez guy, but had to sell years ago due to wrist issues. The M-1000 was one of the first guitars I bought afterwards. I had a solid black one. I remember that neck feeling thin, but not too thin. At the time it still gave me issues so I didn't keep it, but thinking back, there might have been other issues than just the neck thickness. I had a MH for years afterwards.
> 
> That is funny you say Ibanez Wizard III. I think I am the only one that likes newer Ibanez necks better! lol I had all the old ones people want now, and I wouldnt be able to play them today. Too thin/flat. I actually bought a cheap RG with a Wizard II and sanded it down to be rounder. That guitar plays killer now! Almost makes me want to put some $$ into it to make it a better guitar. Put an OFR in it.
> 
> I am thinking about buying a nice bolt on, Floyd superstrat. I have been trying to think of what my best choices would be if I wanted a rounded neck, flat top, and probably narrow nut. The M-II and Banshee are definitely at the top of the list. Some other interesting choices are Carvin, Jackson Dinky, EBMM, etc....



I have just been pouring over the details on the nut width, radius, everything about necks, but I just don't think it's the numbers that really do justice to the shape and feel. I have 12" and 14" radius ESP/LTDs and no issue between the two. All of my current 6ers from ESP are 12" and the BS-7 is 14" but nothing there either. All of the 6er Wizard necks are 43mm wide and the 6er ESP/LTDs that I have are 42, but I know I've had some that were 43mm, but don't think that's it. I get along perfectly fine with the 12-16" compound radius on my Charvels and all of my former Jacksons. So who knows. 
Neck shape, neck feel, where the guitar naturally sits while standing, those are seemingly big factors for me. 
If Ibanez put Wizard IIIs on more guitars, I'd probably be looking more. That RG3XXV was really a killer guitar IMO. My favorite Ibanez that I've ever played.
If you want a round neck, the bolty M-II is not for you. It's extra thin flat. The STs though are probably more your taste. A little more substantial on the neck size. I don't think Thin U is fully accurate, but if that's what you want, it's a good road to go down. Not to overlook the fact that those Dimarzios in the ST 2 are just crushingly good. But I would also add Charvel to that list. Perfect thin C.


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## Shask (Apr 4, 2015)

feraledge said:


> I have just been pouring over the details on the nut width, radius, everything about necks, but I just don't think it's the numbers that really do justice to the shape and feel. I have 12" and 14" radius ESP/LTDs and no issue between the two. All of my current 6ers from ESP are 12" and the BS-7 is 14" but nothing there either. All of the 6er Wizard necks are 43mm wide and the 6er ESP/LTDs that I have are 42, but I know I've had some that were 43mm, but don't think that's it. I get along perfectly fine with the 12-16" compound radius on my Charvels and all of my former Jacksons. So who knows.
> Neck shape, neck feel, where the guitar naturally sits while standing, those are seemingly big factors for me.
> If Ibanez put Wizard IIIs on more guitars, I'd probably be looking more. That RG3XXV was really a killer guitar IMO. My favorite Ibanez that I've ever played.
> If you want a round neck, the bolty M-II is not for you. It's extra thin flat. The STs though are probably more your taste. A little more substantial on the neck size. I don't think Thin U is fully accurate, but if that's what you want, it's a good road to go down. Not to overlook the fact that those Dimarzios in the ST 2 are just crushingly good. But I would also add Charvel to that list. Perfect thin C.



I tend to be super-picky about necks as well. I tend to have wrist issues if all of the specs do not fall into a specific window. Same goes for string gauges.

Radius doesn't seem to bother me at all, except I dont like those vintage spec super round Fender radius's. 7 or whatever. Seems like I am good with anything from 12-16 or so.

It doesn't seem to be thin that bothers me. It is the combination of flat/wide. I can't do those D shaped necks that feel like you are playing a 2x4. I am not sure if the bolt on M-II falls into that category. I dont like the looks of those ST guitars compared to the M-II  I am usually good with anything from a C to a rounded U, as long as it doesn't approach a flat U/D.

I actually have a MIJ So-Cal. The neck on it feels good, but does give me issues at times. I think it is mostly related to string gauge though. I wonder about the width though, because it does seem fairly wide. I think next guitar I buy I am going to stick with 1 5/8 (42mm). I dunno though, because I also have 48mm Schecter and Ibanez 7 strings.


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## Millul (Apr 4, 2015)

The neck on my E-II M-II is fairly round, so much so that I'd almost call it a C shape rather than a U shape (my Jackson DK2T definitely had a much more "U"-feelimg neck), but it's a neck through, not a bolt-on.


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## Shask (Apr 4, 2015)

Millul said:


> The neck on my E-II M-II is fairly round, so much so that I'd almost call it a C shape rather than a U shape (my Jackson DK2T definitely had a much more "U"-feelimg neck), but it's a neck through, not a bolt-on.



I noticed the E-II M-II is listed as having the standard 42mm nut and "Thin U" neck like a lot of other ESP/LTDs.

That is kind of weird, because most M series are listed as having a 43mm nut and an "Extra Thin U" neck profile.


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## feraledge (Apr 6, 2015)

Millul said:


> The neck on my E-II M-II is fairly round, so much so that I'd almost call it a C shape rather than a U shape (my Jackson DK2T definitely had a much more "U"-feelimg neck), but it's a neck through, not a bolt-on.



Yours is the same as the neck on my LTD Elite M-II which is a standard "Thin U". The neck is identical to my Horizons. I also call the ESP shape "U" predominantly because it's the terminology they use, I could see considering it a C shape, but then I find necks that do have a "C" to feel noticeably different (thinking of a Charvel or Banshee as examples of "Thin C" here). 
Apparently the newest E-II M-IIs are back to using a "Extra Thin U" even though the site hasn't been updated to reflect that yet. But I think JD27 might have even busted out the caliper on his E-II M-I.


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## feraledge (Apr 6, 2015)

Shask said:


> I noticed the E-II M-II is listed as having the standard 42mm nut and "Thin U" neck like a lot of other ESP/LTDs.
> 
> That is kind of weird, because most M series are listed as having a 43mm nut and an "Extra Thin U" neck profile.



In the simpler days of only ESP Standard Series, all neck thru M's had "Extra Thin U" and all boltys have "Extra Thin Flat". Despite the differences in thickness, my biggest request on the LTD Elite and E-II M-IIs would have been to keep the satin finish on the back of the neck. But my LTD Elite M-II ACSB is one of my favorites.


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## feraledge (Apr 10, 2015)

In about 8-10 months (I'm naively holding to this estimate), this thread is about to get really real. Behold, the ultimate yardstick (in crappy mock up form):







If you're interested in seeing the build progress, any thing I get will go here: 
http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/luthiery-modifications-customizations/293175-inhale-esp-custom-shop-build-exhale.html#post4348797


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## Spaced Out Ace (Apr 10, 2015)

feral, seriously. Just go fist yourself with a handful of quarters. 

/jelly


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Apr 10, 2015)

feraledge said:


>



So, you're getting the BS-7 in 6-string form. 

You bitch. I'm so jealous.


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## feraledge (Apr 10, 2015)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> feral, seriously. Just go fist yourself with a handful of quarters.
> 
> /jelly



Will you pay to see this? Cause I need to get some money up.


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## feraledge (Apr 10, 2015)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> So, you're getting the BS-7 in 6-string form.
> 
> You bitch. I'm so jealous.



Pretty much dead on, but extra thin U to boot. And that black fog finish, it's seriously haunted me for like the last 5 or 6 years since I first saw it on a Horizon.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Apr 10, 2015)

feraledge said:


> Will you pay to see this? Cause I need to get some money up.



ehh... I might.


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## JeffTD (Apr 10, 2015)

Mind posting more pics of the M-1 NTB? I used to have one that I routed myself for a neck humbucker and wound up getting it stolen in a shill trade . Not suggesting yours is the one - just brings back memories! Loved that guitar.


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## feraledge (Apr 10, 2015)

JeffTD said:


> Mind posting more pics of the M-1 NTB? I used to have one that I routed myself for a neck humbucker and wound up getting it stolen in a shill trade . Not suggesting yours is the one - just brings back memories! Loved that guitar.



I really don't have many good pics of it. Sorry to hear about that man, I think that's every GAS nerd's worst nightmare. The pics I have are all just sadness because it's super clear that the neck PUP is off center. I prefer to look at it before the faulty mod work of a professional luthier. 
Not many pics of the guitar itself then, but here's a decent one from a show even though I look like I'm contemplating eating the mic:


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## feraledge (Apr 12, 2015)

Cleaned up my Eclipse today for selling, thought I'd add another pic as it is looking very sexy right now: 





And as a side note, 0000 steel wool does absolutely amazing things for frets and hardware. Oooh shiny...


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## JeffTD (Apr 14, 2015)

Thanks man, that blows that the guy did it off-centered; I wonder if it's close enough to get away with re-working it the other direction and hiding the ....up with a wider pickup ring?


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## feraledge (Jun 3, 2015)

*E-II Horizon FR7
2014, Japan*




Here's what I had to say on the last page after getting an E-II ST2 and not falling in love with it: 


> AGAIN, I believe I just got the exception, not the rule. I would gladly give the E-II line a shot. And if ESP wants to send me one, I'd gladly write up about it here and give another lengthy NGD post!
> 
> 
> > ESP sadly didn't send me a new E-II to try out, but on the basis of being still so stoked on my BS-7, I decided to get a Horizon FR7. So I had the option of getting a NOS ESP Standard Series one OR this E-II. As a sign of good faith and honoring the aforementioned spirit of experimenting, I went with the E-II. _Solid move._
> ...


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## pahulkster (Jun 3, 2015)

I have an MH400 with a Floyd. It is a super cool guitar, and an awesome deal for under $300. It sings unplugged, and has a different tonality than my other guitars. Total keeper and a great example of the LTD brand.


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## geekusa (Jun 7, 2015)

Awesome comparison idea! ESP/LTD quality has been top notch in my experience relative to the price of the guitar. I have an Indonesian MH-327 that I love. Build quality outside of the Floyd special is just killer. Have also owned an EC-1000 that was high quality, but I just never really jived with it.


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## Carcaridon (Jun 8, 2015)

Glad to hear the E-II came in flawless this time. Restores my hope in the brand. Still the backup plan.


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## feraledge (Nov 21, 2015)

Bumping to add a few more to the mix: 
*ESP LTD GH200
Made in China, 2015.*




This one is a little tricky because I bought it for what it could become rather than what it was. Stock? It's not the worst. The ESP designed PUPs were okay, basically EMG HZs and I don't care for the EMG version, so this wasn't doing a lot for me. If you like the sound of HZs, then they could probably work. Floyd Special was on par, I still have to swap out the locking nut parts, they seem weak and I think that's why the tuning isn't as stable as it could be even with the bridge upgraded to a Gotoh (way, way, way better though). I went with a JB/59 set and it sounds ridiculously better. 
The pros: 
For the money, you're getting solid woods. The basswood body sounds well above par for the price point. The maple neck is solid. The best part of this for me is the contoured neck joint. Never has 22 frets felt like it just wasn't enough for the access. 
The cons:
Meh hardware and electronics, shoddy finishing (as expected on Chinese guitars really), and horrible fret work. This was unplayable without a level, crown and polish. How bad? This bad: 




That said, I got it crazy cheap and expected to replace the hardware, PUPs, and to deal with the frets myself. In the end, it's a solid player that feels really nice, balances well, and is fun to play. 

*ESP Horizon
Made in Japan, 1996.*








Looking back at this thread, you can see that I'm constantly talking about my old 92 M-II Custom and how it just sounded and felt like a beast. I never shook that. After finding out that my Custom Horizon wouldn't be done until after winter, I knew I couldn't spend all winter without a Horizon and stumbled across this neglected beauty from 96. Took a lot of work bringing it back up to speed, but this is my favorite guitar. Ever. 
2 piece ash body, taped off faux-binding, maple neck, bolt on, OFR. My only gripes are that the ESP PUPs are good, but not great (remedying that with a Nazgul for the bridge) and that they glossed the maple neck for some foolish reason. I went ahead and corrected their nearly 2 decade old error and sanded it to become the best feeling neck ever. But the natural harmonics on this guitar are spectacular and the acoustics are incredibly responsive. The feel is top notch. I would go on about it, but I'd rather go back to playing it instead of just talking about it. So I'm going to do that now.

Speaking of heresy, I took my M-II from this: 




To this:


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## Fierce_Swe (Nov 21, 2015)

That modded M-II is a true beauty! Incredible job u did there!!! *thumbs up*


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## feraledge (May 2, 2016)

Couple more to add, one is kind of a big deal.
Quick comment too, tried out a newer EC400 that's made in Korea (WMI) with the neck neck heel and HUGE improvement here. Way to go LTD! Great feel, awesome access.

*ESP E-II Horizon FRII
Made in Japan, 2015.*




I was lucky enough to score one of these European models with specs that are rare in the US: maple neck through body, ash wings, ebony fretboard, and, of course, Snow White finish. 
I have absolutely nothing bad to say about it. Every bit of it is top notch and absolutely on par with any ESP Standard Series that I've owned or played. Any hesitation on these and you're just being stubborn. E-II is here to stay, stop complaining and don't miss out on these guitars.

And then there's this:
*ESP Custom Shop Horizon FR
Made in Japan, 2015/2016.*




NGD thread here: http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/standard-guitars/310473-epic-ngd-esp-custom-shop-horizon.html
I'll get the obvious out of the way, this is kind of a crazy yard stick. The post before this has a GH200 in it, so a bit of a jump here, but I like being thorough in case it wasn't obvious. 
Needless to say, a Horizon built to my specs by the master builders at ESP created the guitar of my dreams. It's perfect in every way and the only way another one like it becomes available is if someone orders the same specs (couldn't blame you if you do). 
Since this is a comparison thread, I wanted to be able to go bottom (or fairly close) to the absolute top. So how do customs stack up to E-II/ESP Standards? 
There is a difference between them. No doubt about it. The E-II/ESP Standards are phenomenal guitars, virtually all of them in my experience. They sound great, they look great, they play great and they will record perfectly and hold up to the rigors of touring without question. If you're being at all utilitarian, that's absolutely all you _"need"_. (If we're being honest, I recorded more albums and toured without any issue using LTD MH400s for years!)
But, if you want to go above and beyond, then there's the custom shop. Unless you have guards, these aren't for the road, but they are absolutely 100% built for playing. The build process is difficult in the digital age. Ordering is easy, but you will get _absolutely zero updates_ on your build. It will magically appear when it is done. BUT, it will melt your face when it shows up. 
Compared to my build with Sully, I could write him a dumb question and get a response and probably even a pic of my work-in-progress within hours, the bar for luthier communication is just a lot higher now than when ESP started building guitars decades ago. You just have to think long and hard, then trust in the process. It's not wrong or right, it just is what it is. Absolutely awesome to get that communication, but the 13 months build time is going to soon be such a small percentage of this guitar's life span that it wasn't a thing the second the guitar was in my hands. 
And that guitar is the best guitar I've ever seen, touched, or played in my life. And it should be, it's my dream guitar. 
So, would anyone else pick up my guitar and feel the same? That depends on the person. The feel and sound of it are absolutely higher quality than the already high bar set by the E-II/ESP Standards. But how do you quantify magic? To me, this guitar is absolutely worth it and I'm so ridiculously glad that I went through with this. 
Would I do it again? Possibly in time. *As per dealer request, I'm not stating publicly how much this cost*, but I will say it's not out of line with the ESP Original Series and it's also definitely an expense you have to think about. Or at least I do and probably nearly anyone reading this. 
But I have seen enough to trust the process and know what I'm getting into. If I got struck by the urge and the funds were there, yes, I'd do it again. 
More than likely though, I'll end up getting some more E-IIs and ESP Standards down the line. Just the way things work. They're awesome guitars and even owning the top notch one doesn't demean them in any way. 
In real life, I've always been the monogamy die hard, but when it comes to guitars, I've got love to spare. That I sold nearly all my guitars to get down to this one and a couple more is testament to the quality of it, but that's also the reason why I would never, ever play a show with it. 
Pure awesomeness. 
So, in sum: Budget LTDs are good for what they are. 300-400+ series LTDs are great. Older LTDs are probably a bit greater. ESP Standards and E-IIs are amazing. LTD Elites are amazing sleeper guitars that are a force to be reckoned with (still regret selling my LTD Elite Horizon III FR!). And if the opportunities present themselves, ESP Customs are inexplicably perfection. 
/thread

...for now. 
Always happy to answer questions and nerd out.


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## feraledge (Nov 19, 2016)

Another one to add to the comparison, don't get to come by these often...

*ESP USA Custom Horizon
Made in California, 1997*




Built by John Gaudesi, who is now a master luthier at Schecter USA in the relatively short lived USA ESP Custom shop. This guitar is amazing. It's 1:1 with the 96 MIJ Horizon FR that I owned and stupidly sold. I have no problem putting it alongside my MIJ Custom Shop Horizon, made to my own specs. 
If you get the chance to grab or play one, do it. In fact, I just pulled the trigger on another MIJ 97 Horizon NT (swamp ash body, bolt on maple neck). The tone from these is awesome. To get woods on par with what they were using standard then, you definitely have to go custom shop. The depth on the quilted top is immense, so the finish just pops even more. I've done some refreshing to all the 90s Horizons that have come through, but they're so awesome it's hard to say much is necessary unless it's undoing neglect or lack of upkeep. The only thing I recommend is to sand the back of the neck enough to get the gloss off (I use a 600 grit block and then go over it with 1200 grit paper, pretty quick, whole process last time took me less than five minutes). Fastest neck feel ever.


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## RLG167 (Nov 23, 2016)

feraledge said:


> Another one to add to the comparison, don't get to come by these often...
> 
> *ESP USA Custom Horizon
> Made in California, 1997*
> ...



Beautiful guitar! Where do you guys find these? I can only find either E-II or rarely a slightly overpriced standard.


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## feraledge (Nov 24, 2016)

RLG167 said:


> Beautiful guitar! Where do you guys find these? I can only find either E-II or rarely a slightly overpriced standard.



Snagged this off of RT. Basically just have to scour always and forever. It's a lifestyle.


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## guidothepimmp (Nov 24, 2016)

Perhaps a long shot, but i figure id ask,

The Megadeth concert in Buenos Aires, that one night, Glen Drover plays LTD on many tracks.. anyone know what model that was? he also played a bunch of what looked like custom esp, but mostly played the LTD


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Nov 24, 2016)

guidothepimmp said:


> Perhaps a long shot, but i figure id ask,
> 
> The Megadeth concert in Buenos Aires, that one night, Glen Drover plays LTD on many tracks.. anyone know what model that was? he also played a bunch of what looked like custom esp, but mostly played the LTD



This one?







Refinished/modded M-1000.


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## RLG167 (Nov 24, 2016)

I need some help identifying an ESP I saw for sale on Reverb.com fairly cheap (around $1,200) but I can't find any info on it anywhere. It's called the THGJ-540, it looks like an NV model with a Jackson style headstock, Floyd and direct mounted EMG's. Seems to be a neck-thru model also. It's for sale from a shop in Japan, so I thought maybe it was a model only released in Japan.


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## SwanWings (Nov 25, 2016)

I got enough courage to finally do your sanding recommendation to the back of my nt II neck. I do not regret it one bit!


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## guidothepimmp (Nov 25, 2016)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> This one?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



thanks, actually looked like the stock m1000 pic, had a flame maple trans finish.


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