# 8 string - (thin strings and long scale) or (thick strings and short scale)



## caughtinamosh (Nov 23, 2008)

Hi guys,

Dreaming of an 8 string custom just now, there's one thing that's been bugging me. I've heard about "short" scale (25.5") 8 strings being too slack and when using thicker strings to compromise for this the sound turning too muddy (especially with very low power chords). I've also heard that thinner strings have more clarity than thicker strings but obviously less tension, but this can be overcome with a longer scale. So, would having a much longer scale with thinner strings give more clarity for the low register power chords?

Cheers, James R


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## Uncle Remus (Nov 23, 2008)

Yer most people would'nt even consider getting an 8 without at least a 27" scale. This is why you see a lot of fanned 8s. 

It means you can keep the loose-ish tension of the high strings and get a much greater tension on the lower strings meaning you can use slightly lighter gauges.

Hope that helps


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## MF_Kitten (Nov 23, 2008)

i bought a baritone guitar just so i could get that awesome sound and tight tone from it. it feels and sounds awesome tuned to B with a .52 set of strings.

i would definitely recommend longer scales, from 28" scale and upwards. 27" scale is the minimum, if you want it as short as possible.

the amount of clarity you get is pretty uncanny really, low B (or low G for that matter) power chords sound huge with the baritone scale 

i can&#180;t wait till my shermanized schecter arrives... yummeh!


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## hufschmid (Nov 23, 2008)

caughtinamosh said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Dreaming of an 8 string custom just now, there's one thing that's been bugging me. I've heard about "short" scale (25.5") 8 strings being too slack and when using thicker strings to compromise for this the sound turning too muddy (especially with very low power chords). I've also heard that thinner strings have more clarity than thicker strings but obviously less tension, but this can be overcome with a longer scale. So, would having a much longer scale with thinner strings give more clarity for the low register power chords?
> 
> Cheers, James R



i use 27.5'' i like this scale for an 8 personaly


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## TomAwesome (Nov 23, 2008)

I'd go the long scale thin string route personally.


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## I_infect (Nov 23, 2008)

I own an LTD FM 408, 25.5 scale, of which I am still experimenting with gauges. I personally opted for the shorter scale because I have owned Ibanez 27" and 28" baritones, along with a 28"+ LP bari. I sold them all, because it really felt like I was reaching too far for the lower frets. 26.5" Schecters are my ideal, so I grabbed the LTD.
It came stock with a 10-46 set+56+68. It had good overall tension w/ no problems... but I am never satisfied, so I started messing with the lowest strings....70's,72's... what I am noticing is that it actually sounded better with the thinner(68) strings. The tension difference is negligible with a 70 or 72. The thicker the strings, the "fwubbier" the 808's sound. So needless to say i am going back to a 68 or 70 at most. Overall I think if you dont't mind the reach for the low frets, grab a 27 or 28": I did mind, so I grabbed the shorter.


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## zimbloth (Nov 23, 2008)

Long scale thin strings definitely. Lighter strings just sound better to me, in every which way.


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## caughtinamosh (Nov 24, 2008)

Cheers for all the replies guys,

Yeah, I thought that the long scale/light gauge route was the best way. If I go to a scale somewhere between 28" and 30", will this allow for a F# power chord to be clear? Heard a fair bit about it being too muddy to be useable (even Meshuggah said so) but will the light gauge allow it to be clear?


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## hufschmid (Nov 24, 2008)

caughtinamosh said:


> Cheers for all the replies guys,
> 
> Yeah, I thought that the long scale/light gauge route was the best way. If I go to a scale somewhere between 28" and 30", will this allow for a F# power chord to be clear? Heard a fair bit about it being too muddy to be useable (even Meshuggah said so) but will the light gauge allow it to be clear?



thats the problem of an 8 string man...... its not because the scale is bigger that it will help... mine sound great with a 27.5'', my next will be with a 30'' scale, the customer wants that and guess which is his favourite metal band???

oh btw anybody seen a baritone chewing gum yet? hahaha


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## Ishan (Nov 24, 2008)

I choose to go the long scale way myself. I'm getting a 30" scale and plan to tune F/E with a .072, it should be ok


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## PlagueX1 (Nov 24, 2008)

Personally for my 7 I would of liked to had gone long scale, if I ever go the 8 route then I would go longer scale. Just to have that extra stability for the low end.


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## MF_Kitten (Nov 24, 2008)

low f# power chords are muddy because the notes are so low. you could play that chord on a bass, and it would still be muddy. it&#180;s because of the distortion not being voiced for it, and pushing the wrong frequencies.

if you want clarity in those kind of low notes, you&#180;ll have to get an EQ pedal or something like that, and tweak the sound in front of the distortion with that. Bulb (if you know who he is ) made a video showing what the ibanez 8 string sounds like through an Axe-FX and an Orange cab. he showed how drop E power chords are clear in that range, and in one way it is, because it&#180;s not muddy at all, but when all the notes in a power chord are that low, it becomes difficult to hear that it&#180;s a power chord. it kinda starts to sound like deep rumbly strings


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## Snorelax (Nov 24, 2008)

Got a link to the vid?

I would definitely go with a baritone scale on an 8; fanned freats are another thing you should consider.


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## Variant (Nov 24, 2008)

Long scale and thick strings.  Then detune for playability.


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## I_infect (Nov 24, 2008)

MF_Kitten said:


> low f# power chords are muddy because the notes are so low. you could play that chord on a bass, and it would still be muddy. it´s because of the distortion not being voiced for it, and pushing the wrong frequencies.
> 
> if you want clarity in those kind of low notes, you´ll have to get an EQ pedal or something like that, and tweak the sound in front of the distortion with that.




Agreed... I have to have a totally different EQ and gain profile to have any kind of definition, especially with the 808s. They tend to be on the louder side for EMGs, and very reminiscent of the 707's, as far as the bass being boomy.


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## yevetz (Nov 27, 2008)

thin strings and long scale


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## caughtinamosh (Nov 27, 2008)

Anyone got a link to the video illustrating the clarity of power chords on an 8 string by Bulb?


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## kellestyne (Aug 19, 2009)

I have a 27" scale 8 string and it sounds fine, the low power chords sound fine and i just have a thin guage (for a F#) on, you just have to make sure the intonation is good and watch you're EQ, cause the notes are LOW, if you get all that down you should be fine. Def consider fanned frets though, they do help out a lot, if i get a custom i'm getting them set up


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## Andrew_B (Aug 19, 2009)

people are gonna ask why your brought this thread back lol....

but im gonna say thanks as im planning an 8 build lol


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## MF_Kitten (Aug 19, 2009)

i found the video somewhere btw: Axefx Ultra Video: Vht 2/50/2, Orange 4x12, Rg 2228 - Ultimate Metal Forum

i don´t think bulb ever posted it here on ss.org.


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## BlindingLight7 (Aug 19, 2009)

27" and up on 8s , i've played a FM408...and it's 25'5"...SOOOO floppy compared to a RG2228. 28" would be a fantastic tension medium, you can still get the shuggah' djenty "boom" as i like to call it. and still be tight enough for regular style playing, the FM408 was great on every string EXCEPT the F. and the rg was great on the lower ones but still needed a little bit more tension. thus 28" is the best length IMHO


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## Scali (Aug 19, 2009)

I'm more of a short-scale guy.
I play with .010s on my Les Paul 7, and I really like the tone I get. It sounds 'chunkier' than my S7320 with .009s.
Since that one is 24.75" and it works okay with a low B, I don't think an extra string needs THAT much longer of a scale. I think around 26-27 might be enough.
Ofcourse all that depends on how the rest of the guitar is actually built aswell, and what you're planning to do with it.
But yea, I prefer shorter scales and thicker strings in general.


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## pink freud (Aug 19, 2009)

Lol at people automatically assuming 8 strings means low F#.

A 25 1/2" scale makes perfect sense for a normal seven string configuration plus a _higher_ string.


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## caughtinamosh (Aug 19, 2009)

pink freud said:


> Lol at people automatically assuming 8 strings means low F#.
> 
> A 25 1/2" scale makes perfect sense for a normal seven string configuration plus a _higher_ string.


 
OK, but I was talking about a low F#... 


...all those months ago.


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## pink freud (Aug 19, 2009)

caughtinamosh said:


> OK, but I was talking about a low F#...
> 
> 
> ...all those months ago.


 
Those 6 posts between your OP and your second (in which you clarified).

Pointless anyway now, now that the thread has been dredged from the deep.


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## Explorer (Aug 19, 2009)

Just to present a completely different side of things...

In addition to my in-flux 28.625" Intrepid Pro dual Cepheus, I also have a 25.5" ESP LTD FM-408. I'm tuned in full fifths, so the lowest note is the Bb below the low F# most of you tune to. 

By using progressive string tensioning of only a pound increase as I go from high to low string, starting at about 9-10 lbs. on the high B4, I get fairly good clean tone on, say, a low C "power chord" of C1-G1-C2-G2, and can also play other chords on those bottom strings. I'm not using distortion or fuzz or anything, however, so it could be that my expectations of a clean, distinct tone for each string is different from the expectations of the average SS.org eight-string user. 

The other thing which I do is that all my instruments go through at least one set-up, to make sure everything is perfect for my playing style. My action is incredibly low compared to most players, even on my acoustic instruments. I would rather pay someone who has a great reputation, and the experience that went into that reputation, than to waste my time in trying to do something which approaches decent; I'd rather have it done right and perfectly. Every instrument I've sent to this person, even instruments I've had for years, come back to me as completely new instruments.

I just wanted to provide a different viewpoint, one which might allow folks reading this thread in the future to know if it's possible to have clean, distinct tone at a shorter scale length for something other than heavy music. I'm working my way towards using the eight-strings as versatile stand-ins for bass, guitar, cello and more, using pick, touchstyle and eBow.


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## MTech (Aug 19, 2009)

^Agreed, I played one of those 25.5 scale 8 string LTD's and it felt great, I was just told if you really want it to sound right you need to be using a cab with 15's to handle the lows.


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## pink freud (Aug 19, 2009)

MTech said:


> ^Agreed, I played one of those 25.5 scale 8 string LTD's and it felt great, I was just told if you really want it to sound right you need to be using a cab with 15's to handle the lows.



I bet a legit sub-woofer system would be even better...


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## TomAwesome (Aug 19, 2009)

MF_Kitten said:


> i found the video somewhere btw: Axefx Ultra Video: Vht 2/50/2, Orange 4x12, Rg 2228 - Ultimate Metal Forum
> 
> i don´t think bulb ever posted it here on ss.org.



Actually, I think he did. It was some time ago, though.



MTech said:


> ^Agreed, I played one of those 25.5 scale 8 string LTD's and it felt great, I was just told if you really want it to sound right you need to be using a cab with 15's to handle the lows.



Regardless of tuning, a guitar shouldn't require subwoofers or 15" speakers, especially in a band that has a bassist. It's really not necessary. It might be fun to mess with if there's no bassist, though.


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