# Magic the Gathering!



## Slayer89

So ... what happened to the old thread? I just went to post in it and the multi-page thread of nerdiness is gone.


----------



## Psychobuddy

Must have...uhm died? 

I don't know, but no one posted in it for a long time, did you search for it?

Anyway what were you going to post in it?


----------



## Slayer89

Yeah, I looked through my subscribed threads and and searched the forum but didn't see it at all. I last posted in it about a week or so ago. Anywho ...

Anyone else play in GameDay? I ended up playing with my BW World Queller Stax brew and went 2-2-1. Not too bad all things considered.


----------



## Xaios

Slayer89 said:


> Yeah, I looked through my subscribed threads and and searched the forum but didn't see it at all. I last posted in it about a week or so ago. Anywho ...
> 
> Anyone else play in GameDay? I ended up playing with my BW World Queller Stax brew and went 2-2-1. Not too bad all things considered.



I did, did pretty well. I went 3-0-1 in the round robin to tie for 1st. Our store decided to have a top 8 in order to give away some old promo cards they had lying around, good stuff for EDH (even though I don't play EDH). Both me and the other fellow who went 3-0-1 to tie for first got eliminated in the top 4 by people we had beat earlier in the day. Interesting grudge match kinda thing. 

I was playing the trusty W/U Allies with control splashed. Allies have always served me well. What was surprising though was that several people who normally run very strong decks were running these weird experimental creations that had little to no play testing. The guy I beat in my first matchup was running a wall deck with Near-Death Experience as the win condition.  Also, my first matchup in the top 8 was against someone running Relentless Rats. I mopped the floor with both of them.

Probably the most interesting match I played was against someone running a combination of Mythic Conscription and a deck based on Aura Gnarlid (super powerful card in the right hands, btw) and Kor Spirit-Dancer. It was a VERY tactical game, with both of us playing very conservative, reactive games, because both our decks had some level of control, but relied on pure beatdown to win. I beat him 2-1, but only by a hair, as I only had 2 life when I killed him, and he had an Aura Gnarlid out with Eldrazi Conscription. I only won because I was able to drop a second Kabira Evangel and gain protection from both of his defenders' colors and walk around them to damage him for 1 more than his life total. Amazing matchup, though.

The guy I tied was running an interesting R/B variant of classic Grixis Discard. He laid me to waste in round one, but my sideboard was basically tailored specifically to shut down Red and Black, so I took round 2. Our round 3 went into overtime with neither of us in a position to win, so the judge called it a tie.

The guy who knocked me out of top 8 was running U/B control. I managed to beat him 2-1 in the round robin because he had shitty draws. He beat me 2-0 in top 4, albeit in 2 VERY LONG games.


----------



## Slayer89

Sounds like fun man. Yeah, I usually run one of the Top decks, but decided to brew up my own list for this one. I have to admit that I was also surprised by the amount of "weird, experimental" decks. Made for a fun day, though.

My draw was against Next Level Bant (well, that's the closest thing to it I can think of) and actually was my first ever draw. First game we kept gaining life until we were both above 30 before we started beating on each other, haha. He ended up taking that one with 2 or 3 Baneslayers. I stabilized early with a Queller game 2 and almost had the win when time was called, so I got that one and ended it on 1-1.


----------



## PirateMetalTroy

why do you newschool MTG players have to be so lame. I can't afford to have another hobby, or take up old ones. 

My black/blue necropotence deck will have to suffice for...ever? wanna buy my cards?


----------



## Slayer89

Necropotence = Neat-o


----------



## Guamskyy

When I think of Magic the Gathering, I think of North Carolina, T-Pain's song "Buy You a Drank" and Rihanna's "Umbrella" just released as singles, staying up late, screaming nephew, and The Marines. Those were the good days, and that was 3 years ago


----------



## Xaios

So, picked up some Jace, The Mind Sculptors today. I bought 3. This card is worth $85.00 a piece. I got them for $45.00 each. 

So, I now have 5 Jace, The Mind Sculptors and 5 Primeval Titans. Life is good.


----------



## Slayer89

Xaios said:


> So, picked up some Jace, The Mind Sculptors today. I bought 3. This card is worth $85.00 a piece. I got them for $45.00 each.
> 
> So, I now have 5 Jace, The Mind Sculptors and 5 Primeval Titans. Life is good.



What?! You are unofficially uncool.

How the hell did you get Mind Sculptors for that cheap?


----------



## Breakdown

Ive been trying to get into this game but I just dont get it. Im too used to the yugioh TCG XD


----------



## Daemoniac

^ Once you get this down, it's _infinitely_ more fun than teh Yugioh stuff


----------



## Daemoniac

ALso, I have no idea wtf happened to my original one  (the thread that is)


----------



## Psychobuddy

Xaios said:


> So, I now have 5 Jace, The Mind Sculptors and 5 Primeval Titans. Life is good.



Jealous...


----------



## Xaios

Slayer89 said:


> What?! You are unofficially uncool.
> 
> How the hell did you get Mind Sculptors for that cheap?



Apparently some dude who had just moved up to town from down south came into the store and sold them his whole collection, which (among several other awesome cards) included 5 JTMS's. The store actually held on to the stuff for a week to make sure that it wasn't stolen. After that, the store owner basically just priced the Jaces to sell (everything else they got was priced at market value) so they could get rid of them fast, and it worked. He stickered them at $50.00, and with my store discount, I got them for $45.00.

Basically, I got INCREDIBLY lucky. I was in the store at exactly the right time. Another hour and they would have probably been gone.


----------



## Psychobuddy

Very lucky...

Are you going to sell any of your Jaces? There's not much that can be done with five, well there is, but fives a lot...unless your very blue heavy.


----------



## Slayer89

Xaios said:


> Apparently some dude who had just moved up to town from down south came into the store and sold them his whole collection, which (among several other awesome cards) included 5 JTMS's. The store actually held on to the stuff for a week to make sure that it wasn't stolen. After that, the store owner basically just priced the Jaces to sell (everything else they got was priced at market value) so they could get rid of them fast, and it worked. He stickered them at $50.00, and with my store discount, I got them for $45.00.
> 
> Basically, I got INCREDIBLY lucky. I was in the store at exactly the right time. Another hour and they would have probably been gone.



Damn, that's pretty awesome. I remember I sold my one copy of JTMS for $45 around the time they came out and thought _I_ had gotten the good deal, haha.


----------



## Xaios

Psychobuddy_101 said:


> Very lucky...
> 
> Are you going to sell any of your Jaces? There's not much that can be done with five, well there is, but fives a lot...unless your very blue heavy.



I plan on keeping 4 out of 5 of them, as that's the most that can be played in a deck. I did purchase the last one intending to trade it, as I'll be able to get excellent value for it. I could probably get $90-$100 worth of cards for it, which isn't a bad trade up from $45. I also plan on trading one of the Primeval Titans I have. I was thinking of maybe trading the Jace, Primeval Titan and a couple more cards for 2 Elspeths and 2 Gideon Juras. Of course, I may also just sit on them until Scars of Mirrodin comes out and use them for trade fodder at that point. In the end though, I don't plan on keeping the extras.


----------



## Psychobuddy

If I were, and this is just my opinion, I'd wait for SOM. Plus Gideon Jura kinda sucks...at least I'm not a fan.

Speaking of Scars of Mirrodin, is there anything you guys want in the set ?


----------



## Xaios

Psychobuddy_101 said:


> If I were, and this is just my opinion, I'd wait for SOM. Plus Gideon Jura kinda sucks...at least I'm not a fan.
> 
> Speaking of Scars of Mirrodin, is there anything you guys want in the set ?



Gideon can be quite strong in the right application, but it's very specific. Probably doesn't justify the cost.

Wizards has all but shouted from the rooftops that Scars of Mirrodin will feature a new Elspeth planeswalker, which is great, cause I love version 1.

Also, no affinity. Please.


----------



## Psychobuddy

Would you mind enlightening me as to what Gideon could be used for, I see potential, but then again I see potential in most cards. Whatever it is, most likely doesn &#8216;t justify paying $45 for him, at lest that is the going rate at my card shop.


----------



## Slayer89

Gideon is very good, but not in just any deck that can run white. He essentially Fogs, Assassinates, and can beat hard.

If your shop is charging $45 for him, though, you need to find a new place to shop. His going rate is just below $30 tops nowadays. I lucked out and traded mine in to Channel Fireball for a bit over $50 credit back when he was hot.


And yeah, SoM will feature a new Elspeth and a new Planeswalker named Koth has also been confirmed.

About picking up Elspeths with the other cards, I'd definitely try and find another option. With the new Duel decks coming out and Standard rotating in just over a month, her value will definitely drop a bit. She'll still be worth something, but not what she's worth now. I mean, even right now a Jace and Primeval is just a few bucks short of being even for 2 Elspeth and 2 Gideon, and that will shift a good bit in just a few weeks. I mean, I guess there's a possibility that Gideon will go back up again, but I wouldn't want to bet on it.


----------



## Xaios

Slayer89 said:


> Gideon is very good, but not in just any deck that can run white. He essentially Fogs, Assassinates, and can beat hard.
> 
> If your shop is charging $45 for him, though, you need to find a new place to shop. His going rate is just below $30 tops nowadays. I lucked out and traded mine in to Channel Fireball for a bit over $50 credit back when he was hot.



Agreed with this post $45.00 is too much for a Gideon. It WAS up to $60.00 at one point, but not for a while now. I suppose it's possible that your store has simply been sitting on it since it was worth $45.00 and just hasn't updated the price. At my local store, for high priced rares, they usually go with what Starcitygames.com says the price is, as they're the pre-emminent single card shop for MTG. Granted, in the case of the Jaces, the owner just wanted them to sell fast, so he discounted them MASSIVELY and I got lucky. Lower cost rares that are in moderate demand, like say a $1.00 rare that happens to be seeing a lot of play, our store will usually charge $2.00 for them, but only when they're very cheap rares.

And Slayer89 hit the nail on the head as to what Gideon can do. In Super Friends, he can be used in conjunction with Ajani Vengeant to destroy an imposing threat. Say your opponent drops a titan, you can go "nuh-uh" on your turn, tap it with Ajani Vengeant and kill it with Gideon. It's a combo similar to the Blinding Mage/Royal Assissin combo you'll see in M11 draft. And if you're playing an aggro deck with lots of creatures who are ready to beat your ass in, you can force another turn by getting all your opponents creatures to attack him. Lastly, you can use him in conjuction with Elspeth to bring out a nice 9/9 flyer to lay the smack down. Sure, it dies to removal, but what the heck doesn't these days?

In short, Gideon has no SUPERWTFOMFGBBQ combo, but he has an amazing amount of utility for a single card.

Just... don't Clone him or Rite of Replication him when you make him a creature, as he's still technically a planeswalker, he WILL die, and so will your copy.

Actually, that's an interesting tactic for the mirror. If you're playing a U/W control deck with Leyline of Anticipation and your opponent sends a Gideon at you as a creature, you could technically in response drop a Renegade Doppelganger and nuke both.

Oh, the plays, the plays...


----------



## Guamskyy

I wish I had the ability to make my own deck :l Are you guys just making your decks by land or what? I just buy the deck and then add some good cards I have lying around.


----------



## Psychobuddy

Yeah I do need to find a new store, the one I go to is just the most convenient. There are a couple other stores I should check out around here.

Thanks for the info on Gideon guys. Still he doesn't seem worth it but it's nice having some combo ideas on the off chance that I get one.

Also Xaios thank you for pointing out the Blinding Mage/Royal Assassin combo, I have both of them and never realized the potential...

EDIT: Guambomb, if I understood your question correctly, what I do when I make a deck is look for a combo in my cards...for instance Avenger of Zendikar and Splinter Twin...which essentially gives you unlimited creature tokens, once I have my combo worked out I build a deck that compliments it, makes it easier to pull of, or makes it stronger. Granted that's just a quick overview of deck building and there are other ways but that has been the most effective way for me to build decks.


----------



## Slayer89

guambomb832 said:


> I wish I had the ability to make my own deck :l Are you guys just making your decks by land or what? I just buy the deck and then add some good cards I have lying around.



A lot of the time I get inspired by popular decks, I won't lie. Then sometimes it's inspired by synergy between certain cards or maybe my own take on an old deck. The pre-constructed decks are usually pretty bad. My advice for learning more on deck building is to look at popular decks and read up on how they function and win, and just try to learn from that. Eventually you'll get down the feel of deck building. I've been trying for a while my skills are pretty average. Also, don't get discouraged if you build a deck and it doesn't work out. To quote Patrick "The Innovator" Chapin, "9/10 decks I make are terrible; and I make A LOT of decks!" and he is one of the top pro level players out there.


----------



## Slayer89

Xaios said:


> In Super Friends, he can be used in conjunction with Ajani Vengeant to destroy an imposing threat. Say your opponent drops a titan, you can go "nuh-uh" on your turn, tap it with Ajani Vengeant and kill it with Gideon.



Also, just to clarify, this combo wouldn't actually work. Ajani V can't tap a permanent on his own, but instead just keep a permanent that is already tapped tapped for another turn. So I guess you could use him to lock down a tapped creature for an extra turn while buying time to play your Gideon during your next turn, but that's about the extent of it.


----------



## Psychobuddy

You could use Blinding Mage in place of Aiani Vengeant and make Gideon into a more versatile Royal Assassin. Basically just supercharging the Blinding Mage/Royal Assassin Combo that Xaios pointed out earlier.


----------



## Xaios

Slayer89 said:


> Also, just to clarify, this combo wouldn't actually work. Ajani V can't tap a permanent on his own, but instead just keep a permanent that is already tapped tapped for another turn. So I guess you could use him to lock down a tapped creature for an extra turn while buying time to play your Gideon during your next turn, but that's about the extent of it.



Ah yes, you are correct.

Regarding the Blinding Mage/Royal Assassin combo, W/B doesn't work so great in standard at the moment, but U/B would prove more useful. You could run Royal Assassin with either Alluring Siren or Tideforce Elemental. I'd go for the latter, as Alluring Siren can only be used on their attack phase, while Tideforce Elemental, while it costs a mana to use its ability (so does Blinding Mage), can be used anytime. It also untaps on landfall.


----------



## Daemoniac

Fuck my lack of job. I have nothing new whatsoever to post in here, really  Beyond my ire at not being able to get anything new in... well... like 6 months


----------



## Psychobuddy

Tideforce Elemental with Royal Assassin does seem to work better. 

Demoniac, please post away regarding older cards and things that don't work in standard. Even if it's not tournament legal or an old strategy, it spawns new ideas with current cards.


----------



## Slayer89

Here's my little story of the day. Yesterday I was bored and got to work early, so I went into Borders next door. I saw they had a pack of Worldwake left and thought, "Hey, I need a couple of cards from Worldwake (both being mythic rares, haha)." So for laughs I grabbed it, and lo and behold it held an Avenger of Zendikar, one of the two cards I need, haha. Funny thing is I never buy packs anymore because the odds of pulling what you actually need are so shitty. I probably still won't buy packs regularly, but it definitely was nice.


----------



## Psychobuddy

Back when I was into buying packs, I did almost the exact same thing...except I got a foil Avenger of Zendikar.

I was considering selling it, but eventually I pt it to use and couldn't be happier. 

I'm so glad I kept it.


----------



## Xaios

One of the current archetypes is Turboland, which makes excellent use of Avenger of Zendikar. I almost have the cards to run it, except I only have 2 Oracle of Mul Dayas and no Time Warps. It's quite neat.


----------



## Slayer89

Yeah, I'm building TurboLand and currently running a "budget" version. Lot of fun.


----------



## Andromalia

PirateMetalTroy said:


> why do you newschool MTG players have to be so lame. I can't afford to have another hobby, or take up old ones.
> 
> My black/blue necropotence deck will have to suffice for...ever? wanna buy my cards?



Just to be curious, what's the point of blue in a necropotence deck ? 
I was a decent tournament player back then (was ranked 1800ish DCI) and if there's one deck where there is no point in playing other colors, it's this one. Playing a deck requiring a fast play of a BBB card isn't really a good idea if you have even 4 cards of another color and the lands to play it. Unless you play double lands and in this kind of format I wouldn't play necro anyway but dig out the good ol' moxes and lotuses etc. (Long ago sold, only cards I kept from my magic days are the aformentioned then-Type-2 necro deck and a 1.5 sliver deck, the one I play when dual lands are allowed ^^. I do have a stack of fake cards for friendly magic evenings though, but end up doing one or two per year, no more nowadays)


----------



## chucknorrishred

magics cool, the art works amazing 

i played that shit when i was younger but the art work........


----------



## Psychobuddy

Hey can you guys run through some archetypes popular in standard right now?


----------



## Slayer89

Valakut Ramp (Amongst a couple other ramp decks [titan and eldrazi])
Jund (for a BIT longer anywho)
Turboland
Mythic
RDW (Red Deck Wins)
Boss Naya
Naya Fauna Shaman decks
NLB (Next Level Bant)
UW Control

Those are some of the main ones. Plenty of other smaller decks running around as well.


----------



## Xaios

Just to add to the above:
- Mythic Conscription (slightly different than regular Mythic, but very relevant at the moment)
- Fauna Conscription
- Pyromancer's Ascension
- Destructive Force
- Soul Sisters (fairly new, won't be around for long as one of the necessary cards rotates soon)

Also, mono-black control is fairly strong right now, but it's still flying under the radar. This is really strange, as it's very strong against pretty much every current archetype except Turboland and Valakut Ramp.


----------



## Slayer89

It seems like a lot of guys are just taking the conscription package and shoving it into other archetypes (be it mythic, NLB, Naya, etc). I guess that's the nice part of it, that it can be used in many different settings.

Mono-Black control, eh? I've heard some people talk about it, but can't imagine it doing amazingly well against a lot of the stuff out now. I mean, I don't imagine it doing poorly, but doing decent at best. I mean, its win cons are so bomby it just seems aggressive decks can out run it, ramp decks can bomb faster, and control can just counter their stuff. I might just be thinking of a different build, though. Got a suggested 75 to look at?


----------



## Xaios

I'll try and get my buddy's deck list. He made a mono-black control deck that just slaughters anything that's played at our local FNM. We're a pretty competitive bunch too so we're almost all running the current major archetypes. His deck just plows right through creature based decks and control decks. It's amazing.


----------



## Psychobuddy

Thanks guys. 

Helps out, it gives me a starting point from which to go off.

Also, MBC is pretty powerful, I was running one a little while ago. It was very effective.


----------



## Xaios

Oh God, the awesomesauce!












These are both confirmed legit, they were unveiled at Pro Tour Amsterdam and Penny Arcade Expo in Seattle. White/Blue Control is about to get RETARDED.


----------



## Slayer89

Those look pretty cool. Not sure how I feel about "Infect" and "Proliferate". Can't wait to find out, though!


----------



## Psychobuddy

Can't wait for Scars. 

Oh so exciting!


----------



## Xaios

Finally building an EDH deck. Using Rafiq Of The Many as my general to use W/U/G colors. Picked up From The Vault: Relics and Duel Decks: Elspeth Vs. Tezzeret, they came with some very useful cards for that format. I need to trim about 14 cards from what I have and then complete the manabase and I'll be good to go.


----------



## Xaios

More new planeswalker goodness:


----------



## Slayer89

Koth looks pretty sick. I have really come to hate Mythic rarity, though. Standard staples went from being $20-30 rares max to $30-50 Mythics. Bleh. /rant

Just got my playset of Lotus Cobra. If that thing hits the field and isn't removed quickly it's pretty bonkers.


----------



## Psychobuddy

Ooooo, Koth looks cool.

Only costs four too.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, can't wait for scars.


----------



## Slayer89

So, I don't like artifacts a whole lot, and proliferate looks crazy, but I'm still really looking forward to Scars. Just a couple weeks now ...


----------



## Slayer89

So, what's everyone think of Scars so far? I've onl opened 6 packs and pulled crap, but am gonna go draft some in a bit. Pretty cool set so far, IMO.


----------



## Psychobuddy

I didn't bother opening packs. I went out bought the cards I needed to make a Myr deck and left it at that. Right now it's white/artifact and it works pretty well. Myr function a lot like allies though they either do amazing or horrible.

I might go pick up a couple of packs for fun..but we'll see what happens.


----------



## Xaios

So far my impressions of Scars are that it's incredibly fun in limited, but it absolutely sucks for standard, because the power level of the cards is simply too low overall compared to Zendikar block and M11.

There are only a very few cards worth owning for Standard:
- Koth of the Hammer
- Venser, the Sojourner
- Elspeth Tirel
- Wurmcoil Engine
- Tempered Steel
- Ratchet Bomb
- Skinrender
- Memnite
- Trinket Mage
- Skithiryx, The Blight Dragon
- Grand Architect

Having said that, there are some other cards that, while they won't be standard viable, will be great in EDH:
- Kemba, Kha Regent
- Leonin Arbiter
- Sunblast Angel
- True Conviction
- Geth, Lord of the Vault
- Hoard-Smelter Dragon
- Spikeshot Elder
- Asceticism (great variant of Priviliged Position for creature heavy decks)
- Genesis Wave
- Argentum Armor
- Lux Cannon
- Mindslaver
- Mimic Vat
- Mox Opal
- Steel Hellkite
- Strata Scythe
- Sword of Body and Mind

This is good for me, because I've pretty much given up on Standard (haven't really had fun playing standard for a couple months).


----------



## Daemoniac

I actually managed to order all the common/uncommon artifacts and a couple of rares (Steel Hellkite and Kuldotha Forgemaster) and added a bunch of shit from my old deck and made myself an Artifact deck 

Did I mention I love artifacts, and the original Mirrodin and Invasion blocks are still my favorite?  Phyrexia & Mirrodin FTMFW 


Of course, this deck can't actually be used in tournaments or anything, it's just a fluff deck for some fun  I'm really insanely excited to see the rest of this block though.


----------



## Daemoniac

I'll also add that I really like that the creatures have been taken down a notch with regard to power, even if it is just for this particular set in the block. It's refreshing 

I also managed to beat the missus the other night by getting through with a 16/15 creature with Infect


----------



## Psychobuddy

and said 16/15 creature is?...

also congrats on finally being able to get new cards.


----------



## Daemoniac

Thanks  The 16/15 was actually not 16/15, but 16/13   and it was an Arsenal Thresher which I managed to boost up to 7/7 to begin with (+1/+1 for each artifact card in my hand I reveal  starts at 2/2), then I attached Ogre Cleaver (+5/+0), Magebane Armour (+2/+4), Grafted Exoskeleton (+2/+2 and infect).

The missus had me with 9 poison counters and it was literally the only creature I had left (other than a bunch of Myr's for mana), so I was going to lose. But I picked up a Whispersilk Cloak 

That won it 

I am honestly absolutely loving this set though, can't wait for the rest of the block


----------



## Psychobuddy

Cool. 

Poison counters seriously scare me...especially because there no way to remove them...at least in standard. 

My gf has agreed to try Magic and I told her to pick out an intro pack from Scars. The deal was if she picked one out I would get it for her. She picked the poison one. Guess you doesn't have any Magic cards yet...


----------



## Daemoniac

Yeah those poison counters surely are a pain.

Ash (the missus) put an enchantment on one of my creatures that taps it at the beginning of each of my turns, then she put another one that said "every time enchanted creature is tapped, it's controller gets a poison counter".

I won on the last turn I had left (that was the one with the big creture ).

I've got to sell some stuff (guitar mainly...) but I'm actually thinking that when/if it sells, I'm going to go through all the old sets back to Mirrodin and buy a shit-ton more artifacts... Memnarch, Bosh; Iron Golem, Karn; Silver Golem (from "From The Vault; Relics), Sundering Titan, Mycosynth Golem and a bunch of others. They are mighty fun and I'd be able to build several radical decks  

EDIT: And, of course, keep some aside for the next two releases


----------



## Slayer89

Yeah, I've definitely had fun with infect in draft and and packwars. Not amazing in constructed, but definitely doable. I actually drafted a pretty sweet black/green infect deck when drafting with my fiancee, my buddy, and his gf. I managed to win the draft with it, but my fiancee was the real winner, though; she pulled a foil Venser from one of her packs.

I finally finished getting my Valakut Ramp deck together. I had to trade QUITE a bit for a playset of Primeval Titan, but I'd say it was worth it. I love how the deck can just come out of no where and just win games.


----------



## Daemoniac

^ Damn! Foil Venser 

I really want to buy a fat pack at least for this set (not 100% sure i want more than that as I already have all the artifact uncommons, all the commons and an extra set of artifact commons), but there are some very nice rares I could use, and no doubt some awesome black/green/white cards to boot.

Need more lands though


----------



## Slayer89

Yeah, we were giving her crap about it all day, haha.

I still want to buy some more packs, too. I'm trying to sell a guitar to pay some bills and had hoped to go half and half with my fiancee on a box with the extra, but the guitar hasn't moved yet.


----------



## Daemoniac

Ash wants to buy a booster box of some kind, but the only thing that I really think would be worth buying would be a ROTE one, as it's the only block we've not got much of at all.

I'm big into singles though. Speaking of which, where's a decent (and cheap) site to buy singles from? I've used Magic The Gathering, magic cards, singles, card lists, deck ideas. before, but I've also been told it's rather expensive


----------



## Slayer89

Well, I only buy from actual sites when I have store credit (from trading stuff in). When I do it's either from ChannelFireball.com or CoolStuffInc.com. Most of the time when I buy singles I just go to eBay since that is without a doubt the cheapest place to pick up cards.


----------



## Daemoniac

eBay is proving weird, I have to say.. Some stuff is way cheaper, some is way more expensive than that other site, and if I get it all from different sellers then I have to pay shipping multiple times is all.


----------



## Slayer89

Well, if you're looking to buy expensive cards then eBay is the best route. If you're buying cheaper cards then any site should do. Prices might vary, but most of the time between the different cards you order they'll probably balance out.


----------



## Daemoniac

I'm seeing that. I only found one site that was generally cheaper than the one I'm using, but they didn't have near the range that my usual one does. We'll see when I have money


----------



## Slayer89

What cards are you looking in to? I might be able to hook you up with some cheap prices if I have the stuff (my fiancee and I both have pretty thick rare binders).


----------



## Daemoniac

If you have stuff going way back to the Mirrodin Block, I might PM you  I have a list of stuff from around Mirrodin to present


----------



## Slayer89

So, I think I got a couple pretty sweet trades yesterday. 

First off I traded my Eldrazi Conscription for another guy's Mimic Vat. Not a big deal, but I got twice the Conscription's value and the Mimic Vat looks like it has potential to go up. 

Now here's the crazy one. A guy I just met looks through my binder and sees 2 of my Birds of Paradise and my foil Jace Beleren. I look through his and see a number of things I like. I point out that my main points of interest are a Wurmcoil Engine and Molten-Tail Masticore and ask him if we can work something out expecting him to take another look through my binder. This guy has been talking prices and obviously knows his values. He sits there and thinks a second and says, "Okay, the Wurm and Masticore for the 2 birds and Jace?" I ask him numerous times to confirm and then agree. Gotta love trading some unused cards for double their value. He then noticed some foil basics I had and asked if I'd trade them, so I just gave them to him since he already gave me such a good deal, haha.


----------



## Daemoniac

Damn, lucky trade. I really want to add a Wurmcoil Engine to my deck... Obviously talking a vintage/fluff deck when I say this, but that, Memnarch, Karn Silver Golem and SUndering Titan are probably my top 4 cards to add (hopefully soonish... ). I've got my Filigree Angel which gives me back a shitton of life as I'm running basically a pure artifact deck (bar a couple of instants and a single enchantment), I've got a ton of counter target spell instants, and some nifty equipment that can bump up some of the lesser creatures. If I can add those, I'll have more big creatures, some solid attackers/defenders (Karn and Sundering Titan), I'll be able to get more creatures with Karns ability (which turns artifacts into creatures), and I'll be able to take control of my opponents stuff to boot (courtesy of Memnarch ).

The Wurmcoil Engine is in there for the awesome picture, EDIT: Lifelink (not trample ) and deathtouch.

Wouldn't mind getting a Myr Battlesphere as well, seeing as how I took out about 1/3 of all my lands to replace with various mana producing Myrs


----------



## Xaios

Demoniac said:


> The Wurmcoil Engine is in there for the awesome picture, trample and deathtouch



Quick FYI, Wurmcoil Engine doesn't have trample. It has Lifelink and Deathtouch.


----------



## Daemoniac

Fuck, whoops  I knew something seemed wrong about that when I was typing it 

Well, it can have flying and trample too courtesy of Golem Artisan 

I originally wanted to put a Leveler and Eater of Days in the deck too, but I can't seem to justify losing two turns running and exiling the remainder of my library for a 10/10 creature and a 9/8 creature with flying and trample...


----------



## Psychobuddy

Demoniac said:


> Wouldn't mind getting a Myr Battlesphere as well, seeing as how I took out about 1/3 of all my lands to replace with various mana producing Myrs



Myr Battlesphere is pure win for me. I have on more than one occasion taken people from 20 to 0 in one turn with that badboy. Granted I have four in one deck...

Galvanizer Myr is great when used in conjunction with Myr Battlesphere, that way you can tap all your myr to do one big hit then tap Galvanizer to untap all the ones you just used.


----------



## Daemoniac

I have a question; when something says "untap target artifact" can you untap an artifact creature? I've always assumed that you can, I mean they're still artifacts, right?

Assuming I am correct, then I also have a "voltaic key" in my deck which lets me untap target artifact for (1) 
EDIT: The point of which is that I can do what you're saying (I have a Myr Galvanizer too), and then do it again


----------



## Psychobuddy

Yes that works. 

Just to clarify you can't use Myr Battlespheres "trample-like" ability twice that way because it is activated when you attack. Otherwise you can do the Myr Galvanizer trick over and over.

A cheap trick is to have two [or more] Galvanizer's out and equp something with a Splinter Twin, err equip a myr with it. 

If I have it right you can spam this combo over and over until you have enough tokens to overpower your opponent.  Cheap I know.


----------



## Daemoniac

Yay I was right  

I think we're getting some more cards for christmas, I know the missus wants to change up her deck so it's a full Angel/Sphinx deck (which is going to be truly infuriating...), and I want to either complete my Artifact deck 100% or start a behemoth Eldrazi deck


----------



## Slayer89

Working on a MonoBlack list right now. Don't think it's amazing or anything, but it's fun. Just trying to get some Grave Titans.


----------



## Psychobuddy

^Post it when your done, I haven't been able to get a good Mono Black deck in a long time...
and I would like some inspiration.


----------



## Slayer89

It's not running GREAT yet, but here's my current list.

1 Abyssal Persecutor
2 Liliana's Specter
1 Molten-Tail Masticore
3 Moriok Replica
4 Nantuko Shade
2 Precursor Golem
3 Skinrender
4 Doom Blade
4 Duress
4 Grasp of Darkness
1 Memoricide
2 Mimic Vat
2 Mind Sludge
3 Sign in Blood
22 Swamp
2 Tectonic Edge


----------



## Sjusovaren

I'm kinda wanting to try Magic but not sure if I have the time/energy it takes, I've still got dreams of (somewhat) making it in music.  But for the heck of it, where should I start? How? Halp plz?


----------



## Daemoniac

Grab a starter deck of one of the most recent sets (2011 Core Set or Scars of Mirrodin), and maybe a couple of boosters while you're at it 

First you need to decide what colours you want to play as though as they all have different strengths/weaknesses.

EDIT: Take a look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic:_The_Gathering and look at the descriptions for the different colours. Usually the less colours you use the easier it is to get creatures out, but most of them have a fair weakness that is best paired with at least one other colour.


----------



## Psychobuddy

A starter deck is really the only way to go. You get enough lands to get you started and it helps to introduce you to the game. Granted you won't get the best cards, but they're great to start with, and in the right hands some can be pretty deadly. 

Out of the current packs I would say that the Blue/Black deck from Scars of Mirrodin is the best. Or if your like me the Myr one...sorry now I'm going of on a tangent.


----------



## Slayer89

I'm going to go with a different route. If you have a local game shop go there and see if you can have someone explain the rules to you, and then start drafting. That way you'll start to build up a collection while actually having hands on learning experience. Then you can start to put a deck together out of cards you draft or buy, and you'll definitely be ahead of the curve on the learning process. The starter decks are mediocre at best, so starting with drafting and buying extra cards you will be able to get out a deck just as good if not better, but you'll also gain the experience on building a deck. Deck building is one of the toughest parts of Magic.


----------



## Psychobuddy

Or instead of doing a whole draft, perhaps the deckbuilder's toolkit is a better idea. I don't think a lot (or any?) of the cards are legal in standard but it is a good way to build a fast collection.


----------



## Slayer89

Well, the main reason I suggested the draft was that it wasn't just buying cards, but quick learning experience. With drafting you HAVE to learn how to build a deck and you get all the playing skills as well.

On another note I spent yesterday play testing and getting ready for Game Day. My friend and I played our decks we plan to use. I 2-0'd him 3 times. I felt pretty happy about that.


----------



## Psychobuddy

I get what your saying, by drafting he would actually learn the functions of the cards and how a seemingly uninteresting one could be used in conjunction with others to become a very useful combination....or something like that.

Basically just deck building experience.


----------



## Daemoniac

I feel like drafting is getting thrown in the deep end a touch too early seeing as how he's never played before, but it could work.


----------



## Psychobuddy

^I still say the intro pack is the way to go, but if he had someone to assist him and show him the ropes, drafting might not be a horrible idea.


----------



## Slayer89

Also, drafting would teach better card evaluation skills. A lot of people I know started off just buying packs/decks and got stuck in the "This card is super cool because it's rare and has a gajillion power!" and it took them quite a while to get past that. Drafting quickly teaches someone that "cool" cards aren't always GOOD cards. Also, if just drafting seems difficult to someone, then there's a good chance that the game as a whole could prove to be too much.


----------



## Daemoniac

That's a very fair point. I think grabbing a starter and a couple of boosters, _then_ doing a draft pretty soon after would be a good way to go. It means he gets to sit down with a premade deck and see how it's built, try and alter it a little on his own and see how it goes, _then_ get thrown in the deep end and see how to build a complete deck from nothing and basing decisions on how he's seen the game works from the starter


----------



## Slayer89

Oh, and not trying to spam too much, but for anyone looking to pick up a LOT of cards for a good price ...

I'm seriously downsizing my collection. Shipping can be worked out.


----------



## Daemoniac

^  If I had some fucking cash I'd be all over that. If I can shift my guitar in the next week or so and you still have them, I'll give you a message.


----------



## Slayer89

Cool, cool. Just trying to get some cash ASAP, and I only really play standard anymore, so I'm trying to move everything else (and even some standard stuff).


----------



## Slayer89

Well, played in Game Day yesterday and took 5th; out of 10 people, haha. Lost my chance at the Top 4 by making terrible choices/plays against a mediocre Infect deck. Kinda put a damper on the rest of my day, but at least I got the Memnite full art promo, Tempered Steel foil Full Art promo, and a prize pack (which had a normal tempered steel, haha).


----------



## Daemoniac

Yay! Those Memnite's are rad, and have cool artwork to boot  Hopefully by Christmas I'll have an actual copy of Memnarch to compliment it


----------



## Slayer89

Memnarch is pretty cool. There's one in the esper colored arch enemy deck and was quite annoying when my fiancee played it in our 4 player arch enemy game.

Anywho, I just started a MTG Blog. Feel free to check it out and give me some feedback.


----------



## Daemoniac

Yeah I was actually thinking about picking one of those Archenemy decks up (Assemble the Doomsday Machine), but realistically, considering how little is in there that I'd actually use I figured that singles would be better anyway.

I lost a few games with my current artifact deck the other day and have come to the conclusion that there's just too much little stuff in there that I just don't use when it comes out. It sits there for several turns while I wait for some bigger stuff and get destroyed by flying creatures


----------



## Swippity Swappity

Slayer89 said:


> Cool, cool. Just trying to get some cash ASAP, and I only really play standard anymore, so I'm trying to move everything else (and even some standard stuff).




Any highlights in that lot?


----------



## Daemoniac

^ With 2,500 or so cards, I imagine there are a lot of highlights


----------



## Slayer89

SOD_Nightmare said:


> Any highlights in that lot?



If you mean money cards by highlights, then no. If there were I wouldn't be selling them all for so cheap. There are plenty of good cards, but none worth $7+ each. I already sold the large money cards and stuck everything else together. Not saying everything is junk, but there aren't any Elspeths or Jaces.


----------



## Slayer89

Soooo, anyone here still playing?


----------



## Daemoniac

Indeed.

Got an 80 card Eldrazi Deck for Christmas, along with 9 Zendikar boosters and a Deck Builders Toolkit 

Nothing phenomenal in the boosters, but that Eldrazi deck is going pretty well in fluff games


----------



## AChRush1349

None of you have shit on my Master Transmuter deck!!!!


----------



## Daemoniac

I dunno man, I ended up with six Emrakul; The Aeons Torn last game courtesy of a Rites of Replication; got an extra turn, dealt 90 damage, and the missus had to sacrifice 36 permanents in one ("one") turn.


----------



## PyramidSmasher

Im new to the game! is this good? I have an elf deck.

I use elves like Lanowar and Quorion to make insane mana. Then I use fireball to deal direct damage. OR I use elvish arch druids, coat of arms, Heedless one, and Garuk to over run. Also, I have ancient Ooze and Verdant force in this deck too for strength. Will do a better description later. 71 cards.


----------



## AChRush1349

Demoniac said:


> I dunno man, I ended up with six Emrakul; The Aeons Torn last game courtesy of a Rites of Replication; got an extra turn, dealt 90 damage, and the missus had to sacrifice 36 permanents in one ("one") turn.



Impossible. Emerakul is a legendary creature...thus, if more then one comes out all of them die.


----------



## AChRush1349

Although, even one Emerakul is pretty fucking insane. My Eldrazi Deathcult deck works pretty well.


----------



## Daemoniac

^ The others were "tokens" that were copies of it, which means multiples are allowed... or at least that's what I assumed 

EDIT: Cos I know you can't just put more of them out from your hand...


----------



## Slayer89

Demoniac said:


> ^ The others were "tokens" that were copies of it, which means multiples are allowed... or at least that's what I assumed
> 
> EDIT: Cos I know you can't just put more of them out from your hand...



No, those copies count as exact copies. They'd all still die.


----------



## Daemoniac

Damn, I'll be remembering that one


----------



## AChRush1349

Haha, but regardless, nice way to win! haha...fucking insane the amount of havoc even ONE of those wreaks.


----------



## Daemoniac

I feel like such a tool, it makes so much sense that you can't do it 

Oh well, I guess I'll have to keep that card for the other, less legendary, Eldrazi creatures  (Maybe for the Broodwarden, so all my Spawn creatures get +12/+6 )


----------



## Xaios

Also, Emrakul has protection from colored spells, which means he isn't a legal target for Rite of Replication. I made that mistake myself many times when I started playing a year ago, trying to cast Rite of Replication on Wall of Denial (which has Shroud).

I've pretty much stopped playing Standard, although I do still have my Nayallies deck ready to go if I decide to play. I'm concentrating on EDH (now called Commander since Wizards has decided to start sanctioning it officially for DCI), and I've got a fairly decent deck built, looks like this:

General (1):
- Rafiq of the Many

Creatures (31):
- Acidic Slime
- Arashi, the Sky Asunder
- Baneslayer Angel
- Battlegrace Angel (Foil)
- Cold-Eyed Selkie
- Dauntless Escort
- Garruk's Packleader
- Giltspire Avenger
- Grand Arbiter Augustin IV
- Gwafa Hazid, Profiteer
- Hystrodon
- Iona, Shield of Emeria
- Jenara, Asura of War
- Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
- Knight of New Alara
- Linvala, Keeper of Silence
- Mirror-Sigil Sergeant
- Mystic Snake
- Noble Hierarch
- Overbeing of Myth
- Primeval Titan
- Qasali Pridemage (Foil)
- Rhox War Monk
- Sower of Temptation
- Sphinx of Magosi
- Sun Titan (Foil)
- Stoic Angel
- Thistledown Liege
- War Priest of Thune (Foil)
- Wilf-Leaf Liege
- Wurmcoil Engine (Foil)

Planeswalkers (3):
- Elspeth, Knight-Errant (Foil)
- Garruk Wildspeaker
- Jace, The Mind Sculptor

Artifacts (5):
- Eldrazi Monument (Foil)
- Mox Diamond (Foil) 
- Nevinyrral's Disk (Foil)
- Sensei's Divining Top
- Sol Ring (Foil)

Enchantments (5):
- Finest Hour
- Luminarch Ascension
- Marshal's Anthem
- Mind Control
- Wild Pair (Foil)

Instants (11):
- Bant Charm
- Chord of Calling
- Counterspell
- Eladamri's Call
- Hindering Light
- Krosan Grip (Foil)
- Mana Leak
- Path to Exile
- Second Sunrise
- Swords to Plowshares
- Voidslime

Sorceries (7):
- Austere Command
- Day of Judgment
- Genesis Wave
- Rite of Replication
- Tooth and Nail
- Wargate (Foil)
- Wrath of God

Lands (37):
- Ancient Ziggurat
- Celestial Colonnade
- Glacial Fortress
- Graypelt Refuge
- Minamo, School at Water's Edge
- Misty Rainforest
- Mystifying Maze
- Oran-Rief, the Vastwood
- Savannah
- Seaside Citadel (Foil)
- Sejiri Refuge
- Stirring Wildwood
- Strip Mine
- Sunpetal Grove
- Tectonic Edge (Foil)
- Vivid Creek (Foil)
- Yavimaya Coast
- 7x Island (4x Unhinged Land, 2x Foil)
- 7x Plains (3x Foil)
- 6x Forest (1x Unhinged Land, 2x Foil)

Also, just so you guys know, Emrakul has been banned in EDH.

I'm also in the process of developing a mono-white deck with Konda, Lord of Eiganjo as the General. The deck will have 31, yes, 31 (thirty-one) board-wipe cards. It will be glorious!


----------



## Slayer89

Almost have my deck all together now. What sucks is I need some Jace the Mind Sculptor. Trying to trade for some (and I have a decent trade binder), but no luck so far.

What also sucks is there's a big tournament this weekend and I have no way to get there. Damn, damn, damn.


----------



## Xaios

Had a good week for Magic. Came in 1st place for the first time at my local FNM, and got enough kills last night at EDH to jump from about 10th place to 3rd in one evening. Shame that was the last night of our season. I used a modified version of the Rafiq deck listed above, but with some key changes. Namely, I traded about $110 worth of cards on Saturday, most of which was to vastly improve the mana base of my Rafiq deck, although I also acquired a bunch of cards that will go in a mono-white board wipe deck that I'm building. I'm going to call that deck... wait for it... "I did it all for the Nukie." I'm thinking of wearing a red Yankees cap backwards when I play it. 

Some of the changes I made to the deck above are that I removed the following:
- Arashi, the Sky Usunder
- Overbeing of Myth
- Mox Diamond
- Sphinx of Magosi
- Day of Judgment
- Hystrodon

I replaced them with these:
- Akroma's Memorial
- All Is Dust
- Final Judgment
- Consecrated Sphinx
- Congregation At Dawn
- Murkfiend Liege

The guys I play with are big on indestructibility (as am I), as well as graveyard interaction. Both All Is Dust and Final Judgment take care of indestructibility, while Final Judgment also deals with recursion nicely. Consecrated Sphinx provides much better draw than Sphinx of Magosi (hence why Consecrated Sphinx a mythic while Sphinx of Magosi is simply rare), and the mana cost is more palatable as well. Congregation At Dawn provides another viable tutoring option, while the loss of Overbeing of Myth and Hystrodon is more than offset by the addition of Consecrated Sphinx, which I'm a lot more likely to be able to tutor now as well. Murkfiend Liege interacts well with all my multi-colored creatures, especially Rafiq. Akroma's Memorial provides a needed option to give my deck some real late-game punch. It replaces Mox Diamond, which I really didn't need anymore now that I revamped my mana base.

_____________________________________________


I can't take all the credit for my win last night. The way we play EDH, we sit around a table and you attack the person on your right while defending against the person on your left. I got an early Wild Pair out which I used to pull a bunch of creatures from my library, followed by an Eldrazi Monument. The guy I was attacking was using Geth, Lord of the Vault as his general, and he was milling my library while reanimating the creatures in mine under his control.

He made an absolutely brutal mistake though. He reanimated my Acidic Slime, but instead of destroying my Eldrazi Monument like he should have, he destroyed my Wild Pair enchantment, which I was pretty much done with. And then to top things off, on his next turn he used a black sorcery spell where he separates my creatures into a pile and makes me choose a pile to destroy, which is well and good, except my creatures were still indestructible by virtue of the Eldrazi Monument the he forgot to destroy. It turns out he thought the sorcery read that I had to sacrifice the chosen pile of creatures, not destroy them. This is an understandable mistake, except it's not the first time it's happened.

Next turn I top-decked Sower of Temptation, which I used to steal his Geth, so he couldn't pull anymore graveyard shenanigans. I pretty much annihilated him next turn for the first kill of the game. It was good.

_____________________________________________


Later in the game, after there were only five out of eight players left, a guy playing an artifact-centric deck was attacking me. The first thing he did was to cast Krosan Grip on my Eldrazi Monument, destroying. 

"That's nice," I said. Other people at the table were obviously chearing for him as the underdog due to my superior overall board position. He then proceeded to cast Phyrexian Rebirth which, due to my many Mirror-Sigil Sergeant tokens, netted him a 35/35 artifact creature. Again, "that's nice," was my reply. Everyone else at the table was visibly chearing more enthusiastically for him at this point, as I appeared to have been wiped out in one turn.

He declares the end of his turn. All his mana is tapped out.

"During your end step, I cast Second Sunrise," says I.

From around the table, stunned silence.

Followed by a chorus of "holy shit!"

I then proceeded to resurrect EVERY SINGLE CARD he had just destroyed, including my lovely Eldrazi Monument, thus making all my crap indestructible again. The only things that were different were that my Mirror-Sigil Sergeant tokens were gone (they started replicating again soon enough), and he had a 35/35 artifact creature that couldn't even trample.

So how do I cap that off? Next turn, I cast Wrath of God, and make him deader than dead. 

The guy to his left finished him off pretty quickly after that. I then finished the last other guy off as well to win the match. It was a glorious game!

_____________________________________________


These are cards that I own that I can use in my Mono-White Nukes deck. I've been wheeling and dealing like a madman lately to put a good list together. Still narrowing things down a bit, but it should be fun.

General:
- Konda, Lord of Eiganjo

Sorceries:
- All Is Dust
- Austere Command
- Day of Judgement
- Final Judgment
- Hallowed Burial
- Hour of Reckoning
- Martial Coup
- Mass Calcify
- Phyrexian Rebirth
- Planar Cleansing
- Sunscour
- Wrath of God
- Evangelize

Instants:
- Path to Exile
- Retaliate
- Swords to Plowshares
- Turn the Tables
- White Sun's Zenith

Creatures:
- Magus of the Disk
- Myojin of Cleansing Fire
- Steel Hellkite
- Sunblast Angel
- Archon of Justice
- Baneslayer Angel
- Battlegrace Angel
- Hero of Bladehold
- Iona, Shield of Emeria
- Kataki, War's Wage
- Linvala, Keeper of Silence
- Loyal Sentry
- Magus of the Tabernacle
- Mesa Enchantress
- Michiko Konda, Truth Seeker
- Pristine Angel
- Purity
- Reya Dawnbringer
- Sun Titan
- Twilight Shepherd
- Victory's Herald
- World Queller
- Wurmcoil Engine

Planeswalkers:
- Elspeth Tirel
- Ajani Goldmane
- Elspeth, Knight-Errant
- Gideon Jura

Artifacts:
- Nevinyrral's Disk
- Scourglass
- Darksteel Plate
- Lightning Greaves
- Mimic Vat
- Strata Scythe
- Sensei's Divining Top

Enchantments:
- Angelic Chorus
- Armored Ascension
- Aurification
- Enduring Renewal
- Ghostly Prison
- Leyline of Sanctity
- Light From Within
- Luminarch Ascension
- Mark of Asylum
- Marshal's Anthem
- Oblivion Ring
- Porphyry Nodes
- Reverence
- Rule of Law
- Serra's Liturgy
- True Conviction
- Worship

Land:
- Emeria, The Sky Ruin
- Strip Mine
- Tectonic Edge
- Mystifying Maze
- Plains


----------



## WhiteWalls

Fuck yeah MtG!

I started playing around 2003 with my friends, and in 2005 I began to attend local tournaments, I was getting beaten up pretty bad at first  but I eventually started understanding more of the competitive level of the game, and by 2006 I was regularly going to PTQs (for who is not familiar they are big tournaments where the winner qualifies for a Pro Tour, which is pretty much the highest level of play with players from all over the world)

The biggest satisfaction I ever had playing Magic was in 2009 when I finally won a PTQ and I got the chance to meet and play against some of the greatest minds... I got completely destroyed, but it was an amazing experience anyway.

Since then I slowed down a bit, mostly because of last year's ridiculous card prices (some decks cost insane amounts like 1000), I still go to tournaments but I don't spend much time actually preparing for them... I mostly do booster drafts now, way too fun


----------



## Daemoniac

In the process of putting together a creatureless black/blue (and maybe /red) hand destruction/direct damage deck.

It worked well the first game, but as there's more than one colour, the 4 "Corrupt" I had in there felt like they took a touch too long to use... especially considering there are red cards that are _much_ faster for much less mana.

EDIT: This is also my first proper 60 card, non-fluff deck


----------



## Slayer89

Been running UB control for a while now. Planning on putting together some sort of Next Level Bant. Figures, I just picked up a playset of Stoneforge Mystic for $8 and flipped it for $30 and thought I was cool. Now 2 weeks later I need a playset and they're going for $70 a set because of Pro Tour Paris.


----------



## Xaios

Slayer89 said:


> Been running UB control for a while now. Planning on putting together some sort of Next Level Bant. Figures, I just picked up a playset of Stoneforge Mystic for $8 and flipped it for $30 and thought I was cool. Now 2 weeks later I need a playset and they're going for $70 a set because of Pro Tour Paris.



Indeed. With the number of quality equipments that have come out recently, Stoneforge Mystic's value has just skyrocketed.

Glad I've still got a full set.


----------



## Slayer89

Well, here's the list I'll be playing tomorrow for Game Day.

1 Frost Titan
2 Grave Titan
2 Sea Gate Oracle
1 Wurmcoil Engine

2 Jace Beleren
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

2 Black Sun's Zenith
1 Blue Sun's Zenith (Might Switch out for Doom Blade)
2 Cancel
3 Disfigure
2 Go for the Throat
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Mana Leak
4 Preordain
2 Spreading Seas

4 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Darkslick Shores
4 Drowned Catacomb
1 Scalding Tarn
4 Island
1 Marsh Flats
3 Swamp
4 Tectonic Edge

SIDEBOARD
3 Duress
3 Flashfreeze
2 Memoricide
1 Mindbreak Trap
2 Ratchet Bomb
1 Massacre Wurm
2 Spell Pierce
1 Spreading Seas

Wish me luck! I've tested a lot and feel pretty confident with it.


----------



## PyramidSmasher

Slayer89 said:


> Well, here's the list I'll be playing tomorrow for Game Day.
> 
> 1 Frost Titan
> 2 Grave Titan
> 2 Sea Gate Oracle
> 1 Wurmcoil Engine
> 
> 2 Jace Beleren
> 3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
> 
> 2 Black Sun's Zenith
> 1 Blue Sun's Zenith (Might Switch out for Doom Blade)
> 2 Cancel
> 3 Disfigure
> 2 Go for the Throat
> 4 Inquisition of Kozilek
> 4 Mana Leak
> 4 Preordain
> 2 Spreading Seas
> 
> 4 Creeping Tar Pit
> 4 Darkslick Shores
> 4 Drowned Catacomb
> 1 Scalding Tarn
> 4 Island
> 1 Marsh Flats
> 3 Swamp
> 4 Tectonic Edge
> 
> SIDEBOARD
> 3 Duress
> 3 Flashfreeze
> 2 Memoricide
> 1 Mindbreak Trap
> 2 Ratchet Bomb
> 1 Massacre Wurm
> 2 Spell Pierce
> 1 Spreading Seas
> 
> Wish me luck! I've tested a lot and feel pretty confident with it.



IVe been DESTROYED by variatons of this deck man...

Go for it!


----------



## Xaios

Just FYI, with Stoic Rebuttal around, there is officially no reason to play Cancel, because Stoic Rebuttal is equal to a Cancel at worst and a Counterspell at best. Playing it will leave people wondering if you're going to play metalcraft, ESPECIALLY if you're running U/B (because of Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas). It'll force people to make assumptions about your deck that may not be true, and with luck it will be too late for them before they realize they're been had.


----------



## Xaios

So, this is my new EDH deck that I'm working on...

General (1):
- Sharuum the Hegemon

Planeswalkers (6):
- Elspeth Tirel
- Jace Beleren
- Jace, the Mind Sculptor
- Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
- Tezzeret the Seeker
- Venser, the Sojourner

Creatures (26):
- Consecrated Sphinx
- Duplicant
- Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
- Enigma Sphinx
- Ethersworn Adjudicator
- Ethersworn Canonist
- Indomitable Archangel
- Leonin Abunas
- Lodestone Golem
- Magister Sphinx
- Master of Etherium
- Master Transmuter
- Myr Welder
- Scarecrone
- Sower of Temptation
- Steel Hellkite
- Steel Overseer
- Sharding Sphinx
- Shimmer Myr
- Sphinx of the Steel Wind
- Sphinx Summoner
- Sygg, River Cutthroat
- Thada Adel, Acquisitor
- Thopter Assembly
- Treasure Mage
- Wurmcoil Engine

Artifacts (11):
- Blinkmoth Urn
- Coalition Relic
- Eldrazi Monument
- Expedition Map
- Nevinyrral's Disk
- Scourglass
- Sensei's Divining Top
- Sol Ring
- Sphere of the Suns
- Spine of Ish Sah
- Time Sieve

Equipment (4):
- Lightning Greaves
- Skullclamp
- Sword of Feast and Famine
- Sword of Fire and Ice

Enchantments (3):
- Oblivion Ring
- Tempered Steel
- Phyrexian Arena

Instants (9):
- Counterspell
- Esper Charm
- Mindbreak Trap
- Path to Exile
- Punish Ignorance
- Stoic Rebuttal
- Swift Silence
- Swords to Plowshares

Sorceries (4):
- Austere Command
- Reshape
- Rite of Replication
- Wrath of God

I've also gotten a few other cards that I've recently procured that I figure it would be wise for me to try and fit in:
- Arcbound Reclaimer
- Grand Architect
- Icy Manipulator
- Obelisk of Esper
- Courier's Capsule
- Mask of Riddles

For truly horrendous shenanigans, I need to find a Darksteel Forge and a Mycosynth Lattice. Combo those cards with Leonin Abunis and you give all your permanents indestructibility and super-shroud.

I was that close to pulling off Time Sieve/Thopter Assembly shenanigans at my local EDH night on Sunday. One more turn and I was off to the races with infinite turns. Alas, then I got hit with a double striking Blightsteel Colossus.


----------



## Xaios

A note: last EDH I did manage to pull of Time Sieve/Thopter Assembly shenanigans. It was glorious, and made all the better by the fact that all my opponents had completely tapped out. I then essentially kept playing until I drew Venser, used him to bounce my Sharuum, got Scourglass back and nuked everyone else's shit, whereupon I proceeded to lay the smack down.

Today was also the prerelease for New Phyrexia, and I have to say, the new set is a LOT of fun in limited. My rares weren't that special but I had many quality commons and uncommons, so I managed to make top 8. In my reward packs I pulled two Hex Parasites, a Puresteel Paladin and an Urabrask. Nim Deathmantle was an all-star for me, especially when comboing with Impaler Shrike. It basically became a nearly unblockable flyer that did 5 damage and drew me three cards each turn for four mana. In other words, it was a monster.


----------



## Daemoniac

I'm so pissed off that my cash situation is so shit at the moment (still...), New Phyrexia is a fucking amazing looking set. I can't believe Karn came back  Expensive, but awesome


----------



## Hemi-Powered Drone

For a while I've wanted to get back into MtG, I tried playing it when I was 13, didn't work so well as no one my age played and the older players ignored me. What would be a good, legal set to start with?


----------



## Xaios

The sets that are currently legal in Standard are Zendikar block (which includes Zendikar, Worldwake and Rise of the Eldrazi), Scars of Mirrodin block (Scars of Mirrodin, Mirrodin Besieged and as of this coming friday, New Phyrexia), and the 2011 core set, M11. Your best investments at this point in time if you want to get into Standard is Scars of Mirrodin block, although a warning, Zendikar block contains several essential cards such as Jace the Mind Sculptor (the most expensive card in Standard EVER, it topped out at $100, although it's settled down at $80 in anticipation of the format rotation. I have five of them. ), Stoneforge Mystic, Gideon Jura and fetchlands. Worldwake is out of print as well, so finding Jace the Mind Sculptor and Stoneforge Mystic becomes that much more difficult. M11 also contains the Titan cycle of cards (Sun Titan, Frost Titan, Grave Titan, Inferno Titan, Primeval Titan) which all have their uses. Primeval Titan especially sees play in Valakut, the deck that would be reigning supreme if it weren't for the emergence of Cawblade.

My advice would be to start with a less competitive format like Commander (aka Elder Dragon Highlander). It allows you to use any cards that you've saved over the years and is a fun social format that is incredibly popular. Rules can be found at mtgcommander.net. You can play this while slowly investing in cards from Scars of Mirrodin block and, come July, M12. Then in October, when M11 and Zendikar block rotate out while Innistrad rotates in, you'll be on equal footing with everyone for Standard.

While every set has format staples, some are easier to get hold of than others. If you want to build a cardbase for EDH, I would recommend starting with Core sets, Mirrodin block (Mirrodin, Darksteel, Fifth Dawn), Ravnica block (Ravnica, Guildpact, Dissension), Lorwyn block (Lorwyn, Shadowmoor, Morningtide, Eventide), Alara block (Shards of Alara, Conflux, Alara Reborn) and Zendikar block (Zendikar, Worldwake, Rise of the Eldrazi). Thos sets aren't strictly speaker better, but the cards are definitely easier to get hold of. Ravnica, Lorwyn and Alara blocks all have a strong focus on multi-color cards as well, which will give you flexible choices for your General, especially Alara block.

Also, Wizards of the Coast are going to begin selling five different preconstructed EDH decks in June, which will actually include some brand new cards. Also good to find are "special reissue" sets such as From the Vault: Exiled and From the Vault: Relics, both of which contain several EDH staples, as well as some of the "Dual Decks," particularly the ones that come with Planeswalkers (the newest one, Knights vs. Dragons, doesn't include any, and isn't particularly exciting).

EDH is also THE format to show off your foil cards.


----------



## Slayer89

Just had my best FNM ever a few days ago. Before the events got started my friend and I decided to have a pack war. I decided to grab a pack of Onslaught. My rare: Polluted Delta. So, I was pretty psyched about that. Then we sat down to draft instead of playing Standard. I crack open my first pack to find a Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas. I was preeeetty happy, and decided to try and play him. I ended up getting passed tons of sweet cards to go with it such as cheap artifact flyers, golem artisan, 2 grasp of darkness, and a few others. I played 4 rounds that night and went 2-0 each time. End of the night I walked out with 5 packs (decided to split the prize pool with the guy I played in the finals) and a FNM Promo Squadron Hawk. Best FNM Ever, haha.

Also, I'm back in my Legacy > Standard mode, and so I'm working on Team Italia. I have about half of the deck so far. Anyone want to send me some Wastelands? haha. Here's the list for anyone interested.

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/legacy/21701_Deck_Tech_Team_Italia_with_Gerard_Fabiano.html


----------



## Hemi-Powered Drone

The deck that I had was one of those Pro Circuit decks, the ones modeled after the pro player's decks. Mine was some 30-something year old Japanese guy's deck, I think it was white and red. I then added some cards from Ravnica boosters, Guildpact, I think. So maybe it won't be that bad in EDH.

...I just realised that it wasn't when I was 13, it was when I was 11 that I tried. Why does that make me feel old?


----------



## Xaios

dragonblade629 said:


> The deck that I had was one of those Pro Circuit decks, the ones modeled after the pro player's decks. Mine was some 30-something year old Japanese guy's deck, I think it was white and red. I then added some cards from Ravnica boosters, Guildpact, I think. So maybe it won't be that bad in EDH.
> 
> ...I just realised that it wasn't when I was 13, it was when I was 11 that I tried. Why does that make me feel old?



Boros, I'm guessing? Could be made into a viable EDH deck. Actually, one of the cards that I quite like from the new set would fit well into a Boros EDH deck, possibly as a general:


----------



## Xaios

So, big announcement from Wizards. As of July 1st, both Jace, the Mind Sculptor and Stoneforge Mystic have been banned in Standard.


----------



## PyramidSmasher

Xaios said:


> So, big announcement from Wizards. As of July 1st, both Jace, the Mind Sculptor and Stoneforge Mystic have been banned in Standard.



HAHAHAHA at Jace, The Mind Sculptor ban. I never used it 

What decks do you guys currently have going? I have 5:

Generic Mono green Elf Deck
Semi-Izzet themed Blue/Red
Generic black deck (Ive found that black decks work really well when not themed.)
White Kithkin
Green/Red Sliver


----------



## Xaios

The only Standard deck I've got together is Naya Allies.

I've got three EDH decks, although as they all share some common cards I can only really have one available for play at a time:

- Rafiq of the Many (White/Green/Blue)
- Sharuum the Hegemon (Blue/White/Black)
- Ghave, Guru of Spores (Green/White/Black)

As Ghave was one of the brand new commanders released in the EDH preconstructed decks, he's only been available since Friday. I started brainstorming on how to put it together, however, ever since he was spoiled, so I had lots of time to tinker and optimize before unleashing him last night at my local game store. Needless to say, it's a deck that it's damn well the perfect deck for me. It's creature-based, it's highly interactive, it has the potential to control the board presence of my opponents, it's quite powerful, and it's a LOT of fun.


----------



## Sephael

I really should dig out my old cards and sell them, I'm sure if nothing else the sol rings and duel lands would help pay for some of the gear I've been wanting.


----------



## Slayer89

I have a few decks going right now. By format ...

*Standard-*
Vampires
Elfs
All in Red
Grixis Control
Pyromancer Ascension

*Legacy-*
Merfolk

*EDH-*
Damia, Sage of Stone


Don't care for extended and don't ant to budget for Vintage.


----------



## Xaios

Slayer89 said:


> I have a few decks going right now. By format ...
> 
> *Standard-*
> Vampires
> Elfs
> All in Red
> Grixis Control
> Pyromancer Ascension
> 
> *Legacy-*
> Merfolk
> 
> *EDH-*
> Damia, Sage of Stone
> 
> 
> Don't care for extended and don't ant to budget for Vintage.



Alas, as I only started playing last year, I don't have the card base to attempt Legacy, Vintage, Modern or even Extended.


----------



## Slayer89

So, anyone else see the new Jace? Probably my least favorite of the soon to be 3 Jaces. Now a 3 drop, 4 drop, and 5.


----------



## Xaios

With the current meta, he would definitely be useless. However, people are theorizing that Innistrad will be heavily graveyard based. The ability to mill yourself could actually prove quite useful.


----------



## Daemoniac

I actually managed to put together a reasonably well rounded infect deck 

EDIT: By my 80 card fluff standards that is anyway... It's actually just over 60 cards


----------



## PyramidSmasher

About to build a new deck... I dont play in tournaments so no restrictions. 

Was thinking about doing a black deck built around lim-dul. Anyone heard of a good necromancer deck?


----------



## Hemi-Powered Drone

I've only been able to find 30 or so cards, most of them are blue or black and I've only found three lands...

What would you recommend along the lines of a theme/starter deck?


----------



## PyramidSmasher

dragonblade629 said:


> I've only been able to find 30 or so cards, most of them are blue or black and I've only found three lands...
> 
> What would you recommend along the lines of a theme/starter deck?



Alot of the intro decks arent very good IMO... I think there was an Elf theme deck in Lorwyn called Elvish Predation. Elf decks are very easy to modify without fucking up and elves are fun to play (my main deck is elves even to this day).


----------



## Daemoniac

^ Some of the newer theme decks are a great place to start IMO, the M10 decks were great, same with Alara Reborn and the New Phyrexia ones (again, IMO  )


----------



## powerofze

Slayer89 said:


> I have a few decks going right now. By format ...
> 
> *Standard-*
> Vampires
> Elfs
> All in Red
> Grixis Control
> Pyromancer Ascension
> 
> *Legacy-*
> Merfolk
> 
> *EDH-*
> Damia, Sage of Stone
> 
> 
> Don't care for extended and don't ant to budget for Vintage.


Just wondering, what kind of deck did you build around Damia?


----------



## Xaios

powerofze said:


> Just wondering, what kind of deck did you build around Damia?



Damia - The only imaginable General with which One With Nothing might not be completely useless.


----------



## PyramidSmasher

Daemoniac said:


> ^ Some of the newer theme decks are a great place to start IMO, the M10 decks were great, same with Alara Reborn and the New Phyrexia ones (again, IMO  )



The only new Phyrexia deck I got was the one with Victory's Herald (Red/White), and I didnt see what their goal was at all (I thought red/white was supposed to be burn with some protection) so I dismantled it instantly. There's that one infect one but infect is so gay 




Xaios said:


> Damia - The only imaginable General with which One With Nothing might not be completely useless.



You could seriously control your deck with this combo. You'd thin through the cards you dont need super fast.


----------



## Vostre Roy

Jumping in the thread, but I haven't bought any cards in the past... 5-6 years. Almost sold all of them but one. I used to have a Graveyard Deck, a Zombie Deck and an Elves Deck, but I sold them all.

The only deck remaining is a Dragon Deck, mostly built around the Kilnmouth Dragons (I played mostly through the Unslaught block and the one after, don't remember his name). About 80 cards, I got some original series Lightning Dragons, Two-Headed Dragons, erm... well quite a bunch, if someone is interested (not necesserelly to buy it, but out of curiosity), I can list them, I got quite a bunch, over 40 rare cards.


----------



## Xaios

I mocked myself up as a planeswalker:







(Marty is a guy who works at my games shop and is always playing the most rousing viking metal over the stereo.)


----------



## Xaios

So, attended the M12 prerelease at my LGS yesterday, had a fair amount of fun even though I did quite poorly. I was actually really skeptical of this set, but I think I've come around after yesterday, especially with regards to limited. This is probably the first core set that favours a beatdown strategy in limited, as opposed to a control/midrange strategy, mainly because of the Bloodthirst mechanic, which is really quite powerful. Being as the packs I opened favored control, I of course didn't do as well as I'd hoped, even though I got to play with some interesting new cards:

Skinshifter: this card is really flexible and efficient, and more importantly, fun to play with. Plus, he could actually see play in a Doran EDH deck.

Jace, Memory Adept: I can't really evaluate it for constructed right now as it doesn't fit into the current metagame. If Innistrad is graveyard based like the rumours say, then it will be great there as well. However, in limited it's a beast. Drop this and your opponent absolutely must kill it in 2 turns or they're dead. Too bad the art is basically "Jace, the Wrist Slasher."

Garruk, Primal Hunter: Will be great in constructed and IS great in limited.

Garruk's Horde: This isn't constructable with the titans still around, but in limited things can get out of hand pretty quickly. In one game my opponent resolved this. Next turn he proceeded to play four more creature cards right off the top of his library, giving him huge card advantage. It didn't end well for me.

Timely Reinforcements: This card is absolutely, unambiguously fantastic against mono red burn decks. Once Kor Firewalker rotates out, this will take its place in the sideboard. It provides lifegain to thwart red's burn/fast creature strategy, and blockers to either eat more burn or take one for the team. It's simply amazing against red and not too shabby against other colours as well, if you're in a tight spot.

Doubling Chant: My allies deck simply needs this card. I can't see any other possible reason to play this, but it synergizes so incredibly well with allies, it's impossible to pass up. It's basically Clarion Ultimatum for all your creatures. Pretty useless in EDH though. 

Dungrove Elder: Throw Spirit Mantle on this sucker and you've got yourself a hell of an efficient beatstick. This will be great in a Green deck with a white splash, because it can't be targeted by opponents and can also be brought back with Sun Titan.

Grand Abolisher: One of the better hate bears they've printed in a long time. This might actually see some play in Legacy as it totally hoses counterspells on your turn. However, it won't see play in Standard or Limited. M12 limited is too focused on beatdown for this to matter, and there's too many ways to deal with this in Standard, even if you have to kill it on your own turn.

Primordial Hydra: There's just too many ways to deal with this in constructed, but this is definitely going in my Ghave, Guru of Spores EDH deck, as his self-replicating counters really synergizes with Ghave's ability.

Quicksilver Amulet: This card is good in various situations, terrible in others. Unless you've got 8 mana open when you play this, you completely sacrifice tempo in hopes that you'll be able to stay alive long enough to make use of it. The only constructed application I can see for this card is in a mono-blue or mono-green ramp deck, and there are better ways to accomplish both, not to mention the fact that artifact kill is so prevalent these days, I don't think I'd even want to try. Throwing down Caged Sun seems like a better option for getting your fatties out, even though it costs two more mana. However, it doesn't put such a huge target on its head and it also pumps your existing creatures.

Sorin's Vengeance: Insane if it resolves, but that's easier said than done. I had one of these at my pre-release and I was running White/Blue/Black. The problem I was having related more to luck than anything. I was running 6 of each colour of land that I needed. I would consistently finish the game with 5 plains and 5 islands but only 2 swamps. It was just uncanny, not to mention SUPER annoying. There were two games that I lost with this in hand that I could have won had I drawn one more black mana, even though I had drawn all the mana of both other colours. Luck of the draw. Unfortunately, I have a distinctly unlucky streak, while certain people at my local LGS have horseshoes in their asses as far as card draw goes.

________________________


Those are the new cards that I either played with or against over the course of the pre-release tournament. I abstained from reviewing cards that I didn't get to see. Overall though, there's actually some pretty cool stuff.


----------



## powerofze

you forgot visions of the beyond. In a sealed event (6 boosters), I got Visions of the beyond, Grave Titan, Garruk (planeswalker), Time reversal and Druic Satchel 

I kinda derped it tho so i wound up doing really bad. Got 1 booster out of it tho, and it had a Sorin Markov. Talk about some insane luck (or skill)


----------



## PyramidSmasher

I was so excited about Goblin Grenade that my Type 2 deck is now goblins. Too bad its about to get fucked when Zendikar goes out...

I disagree about the uselessness of Grand Abolisher. It's a 2 drop 2/2 which absolutely fucks so many control decks. If nothing else it lets your titans abilities resolve when they come into play.


----------



## Xaios

Just as I thought, there weren't any Grand Abolishers anywhere to be seen at the Top 8 at the Cincinnati Open over the weekend. As I said, it *might* see play in Legacy, but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for it to be good in Standard. Control is simply too weak in the current metagame to justify having it, and there are *so* many ways to get rid of it, being as ANY deck can run Dismember.


----------



## Xaios

So yeah. On Sunday, at about 3PM I decided to build a mono-green EDH deck that my buddy could use that evening, as he was just getting back into MTG and didn't have the card base to build an EDH deck. He ended up having to leave anyway, so after my Rafiq deck fizzled game one, I decided to give it a try.

It smashed face. Big time. This is how it is currently:

General (1):
- Omnath, Locus of Mana

Planeswalkers (3):
- Garruk Wildspeaker
- Garruk, Primal Hunter
- Karn Liberated

Creatures (30):
- Acidic Slime
- Ant Queen
- Arashi, the Sky Asunder
- Artisan of Kozilek
- Avenger of Zendikar
- Brawn
- Deadwood Treefolk
- Dosan, the Falling Leaf
- Dungrove Elder
- Eternal Witness
- Fauna Shaman
- Fierce Empath
- Gaea's Herald
- Garruk's Horde
- Glissa Sunseeker
- Hornet Queen
- Kamahl, Fist of Krosa
- Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
- Loaming Shaman
- Primeval Titan
- Primordial Sage
- Sakiko, Mother of Summer
- Sakura-Tribe Elder
- Tornado Elemental
- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
- Vigor
- Viridian Zealot
- Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger
- Wolfbriar Elemental
- Yavimaya Elder

Artifacts (8):
- Brittle Effigy
- Caged Sun
- Eldrazi Monument
- Extraplanar Lens
- Mind's Eye
- Quicksilver Amulet
- Sensei's Divining Top
- Sol Ring

Equipment (3):
- Lightning Greaves
- Skullclamp
- Sword of Feast and Famine

Enchantments (8):
- Asceticism
- Bear Umbra
- Mana Reflection
- Nature's Will
- Wild Pair
- Survival of the Fittest
- Sylvan Library
- Vernal Bloom

Instants (2):
- Beast Within
- Krosan Grip

Sorceries (9):
- All Is Dust
- Cultivate
- Genesis Wave
- Green Sun's Zenith
- Harmonize
- Kodama's Reach
- Overwhelming Stampede
- Praetor's Council
- Time of Need

Land (36)
- Eye of Ugin
- Mystifying Maze
- Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers
- Oran-Rief, the Vastwood
- Temple of the False God
- Tranquil Thicket
- Forest x 30

There are still some cards I want to add that I don't own. The big ones are Seedborn Muse, Genesis and Vedalken Orrery. I also certainly wouldn't mind having Rofellos, Gaea's Cradle and Yavimaya Hollow either.


----------



## Hemi-Powered Drone

PyramidSmasher said:


> The only new Phyrexia deck I got was the one with Victory's Herald (Red/White), and I didnt see what their goal was at all (I thought red/white was supposed to be burn with some protection) so I dismantled it instantly. There's that one infect one but infect is so gay



That's the one I was looking at. So would it be a good basis to start with? The cards, in theory, look good.


----------



## Xaios

I'm confused. The starter deck with Victory's Herald is from Mirrodin Besieged, not New Phyrexia. 

Also, Starter Decks are never really very good to being with. They basically serve as an introduction to the mechanics of the set. Event Decks are a good deal better, but they're still not near strong enough to see Standard play. If the people at your LGS are running finely tuned decks (as the people at mine tend to do, even though we also have quite a rogue metagame), you're going to have to invest in the necessary cards to make a competitive deck if you really want to win. Look over the results from recent pro tour tournaments, national tournaments and grand prix tournaments, and start emulating the decks you see there.

Don't underestimate your local metagame either though, because if you decide to play Valakut only to discover that everyone at your LGS is running anti-Valakut decks at FNM, it won't matter if you're playing a Tier 1 deck, you will die horribly.


----------



## Hemi-Powered Drone

My mistake, I meant Life for Death, also Red/White.

New Phyrexia Intro Packs : Daily MTG : Magic: The Gathering

What exactly is an Event Deck?


----------



## Xaios

dragonblade629 said:


> What exactly is an Event Deck?



Basically a starter deck, but of a much higher caliber than regular starter decks from a given set. They feature cards from all sets that are legal at the time of their release, not just the set they represent. Also, you won't get completely destroyed playing one, unlike a starter deck. These ones are good.

Mirrodin Besieged Event Deck: Into the Breach (Magic Sealed Product: Event Decks)

New Phyrexia Event Deck: War of Attrition (Magic Sealed Product: Event Decks)

Consequently, running the New Phyrexia "War of Attrition" event deck is the one exception they made to the Stoneforge Mystic banning, so long as you run it exactly as it comes in the box, sideboard and all. If you want to change it, the first thing you have to do is remove Stoneforge Mystic.


----------



## Slayer89

My buddy and I like to make videos for him to throw up on YouTube. Here's our most recent game. GW Quest (him) against me on Br Vamps.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3eyDeqjxcg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCz5C8FFpsw&feature=channel_video_title


----------



## PyramidSmasher

My friend's dad pulled a foil jace and a regular jace in the same pack. 

First he freaks out about the foil one, then decides to look at the rare in t he pack and shits himself.


----------



## Slayer89

Not as cool, but I did that with Jin-Gitaxias not too long ago.


----------



## Xaios

I did it with Gigantomancer.


----------



## MikeH

Just a little heads up, I have 100 MTG cards for sale. $18. PM me.


----------



## powerofze

Ibz_rg said:


> Just a little heads up, I have 100 MTG cards for sale. $18. PM me.


There's gotta be a rough list for it to sell


----------



## MikeH

Plains:
Tigereye Cameo
Strength of Unity
Sparring Golem (2/2)
Sulfur Vent
Sunscape Apprentice (1/1)
Benalish Lancer (2/2)
Benalish Emissary (1/4)
Holy Day
Dismantling Blow
Morale
Deserted Temple
Ravaged Highlands
(6) Plains Elemental cards

Forest:
Pulse of Llanowar
Pincer Spider (2/3)
Llanowar Vanguard (1/1)
Yavimaya Barbarian (2/2)
Geothermal Crevice
Llanowar Cavalry (1/4)
Tinder Farm
Frenzied Tilling
Kavu Climber (3/3)
Explosive Growth
Llanowar Elite (1/1)
Quirion Trailblazer (1/2)
Sulam Djinn (6/6)
(6) Forest Elemental cards

Island:
Manipulate Fate
Barrin&#8217;s Unmaking
Faerie Squadron (1/1)
Exclude
Metathran Zombie (1/1)
Tower Drake (2/1)
Hydromorph Guardian (2/2)
Churning Eddy
Spinal Embrace
(6) Island Elemental cards

Swamp:
Smoldering Tar
Agonizing Demise
Belbe&#8217;s Percher (2/2)
Scavenged Weaponry
Bog Initiate (1/1)
Lost Soul (2/1)
Urborg Volcano
Duskwalker (1/1)
Flint Golem (2/3)
(6) Swamp Elemental cards

Mountain:
(Holographic) Skizzik (5/3)
Savage Offensive
Loafing Giant (4/6)
Fanning the Flames
Tremble
Scorching Lava
Dwarven Scorcher (1/1)
Maniacal Rage
Lava Dart
Firebrand Ranger (2/1)
Kavu Aggressor (3/2)
Simoon
Chainflinger (2/2)
Crown of Flames
Pardic Lancer (3/2)
Zap
Lead Golem (3/5)
Spitting Earth
Flame Spirit (2/3)
Pillage
Volcanic Hammer
Goblin Chariot (2/2)
Raging Goblin (1/1)
Hill Giant (3/3)
(10) Mountain Elemental cards


----------



## Hemi-Powered Drone

I'm thinking of getting the Deck Builder's Toolkit and War of Attrition so I could build a competitive deck, think that will work until I can really decide a direction for my deck?


----------



## Xaios

dragonblade629 said:


> I'm thinking of getting the Deck Builder's Toolkit and War of Attrition so I could build a competitive deck, think that will work until I can really decide a direction for my deck?



Unfortunately, not really. War of Attrition's inability to be modified without losing Stoneforge Mystic really neuters it. If you're going to get one, get Into the Breach. It's actually a decent facsimile of a competitive Kuldotha Red deck.


----------



## Hemi-Powered Drone

Xaios said:


> Unfortunately, not really. War of Attrition's inability to be modified without losing Stoneforge Mystic really neuters it. If you're going to get one, get Into the Breach. It's actually a decent facsimile of a competitive Kuldotha Red deck.



Wait, it has a banned card in it? But isn't it one of the newest decks?


----------



## Nile

dragonblade629 said:


> Wait, it has a banned card in it? But isn't it one of the newest decks?


It has 2 Stoneforge Mystics, that deck can only be played with them, and that deck cannot be modified in anyway, or else it becomes illegal.


It is also a Dying Fetus album!


----------



## Slayer89

dragonblade629 said:


> Wait, it has a banned card in it? But isn't it one of the newest decks?



Yeah, the deck was released shortly before Stoneforge got banned in standard. Because of the situation they made the decision that you can still use the preconstructed deck, but you are not allowed to change any cards in it.


----------



## Xaios

^ Exactly. As I had already said...



Xaios said:


> Consequently, running the New Phyrexia "War of Attrition" event deck is the one exception they made to the Stoneforge Mystic banning, so long as you run it exactly as it comes in the box, sideboard and all. If you want to change it, the first thing you have to do is remove Stoneforge Mystic.


----------



## Slayer89

So, trying to brew up some new standard decks. I'm so sad that the fetch lands are leaving. Really hoping Innistrad gives us some Enemy colored duals. I'm really starting to like my BG deck.


----------



## Xaios

Enemy coloured dual lands would be great, but I'm not holding my breath there. The enemy fetch lands were the greatest lands printed since Ravnica.


----------



## Slayer89

Yeah. I'd love to have pain lands again, but we know that won't happen.


----------



## Xaios

Not such a fan of pain lands, would rather have shock lands.


----------



## Slayer89

Well, obviously haha, but with how they've said that just pain lands were "too confusing for new players", they must think a shockland is rocket science to a new player.


----------



## Hemi-Powered Drone

Slayer89 said:


> Well, obviously haha, but with how they've said that just pain lands were *"too confusing for new players"*, they must think a *shockland is rocket science to a new player.*



Really?
I remember getting the red/green shock land out of one of my first packs, that didn't seem too confusing.


----------



## Slayer89

Half the stuff that R&D calls confusing is pretty simple. It just seems like they've gone on a mission to seriously dumb things down.


----------



## Xaios

Made a ridiculous trade yesterday. The 2 Ashnod's Altars that I ordered nearly 2 months ago finally arrived. I had gotten one for my Ghave, Guru of Spores EDH deck (I've been using a proxy up until now) and I ordered two because there was a dearth of that particular card in my playgroup. Before they arrived, someone else in my group mentioned that he was also making a Ghave deck and really wanted one, so I told him I had one on the way. We were playing EDH yesterday, so I brought both of them with me and offered it to him for trade. In turn, he handed me a stack of cards and said "I'll trade any card in this pile."

So, what do I find?

Freaking Gideon Jura.

I made it absolutely clear, he would be losing by this trade if he agreed to it, and bigtime. But he went for it, no hesitation.

So yeah, I traded a 40 cent uncommon (as far as MTG rarity rating goes) for an $18 mythic rare planeswalker. Not too shabby.

Also, another one of the guys in my group sold some of his collection to the game store we play at in order to finance other purchases. I picked through what he sold and managed to grab two Seedborn Musesand two Woodfall Primuses, cards that I had been trying to find for quite a while, among some other neat stuff. I had been proxying Woodfall Primus in my Ghave deck since I'd built it as well. Now I just need a Juniper Order Ranger and the deck will be complete. Did pretty darn well.


----------



## Sicarius

I wanted to get back in, but with one of the commanders decks.

then I found out the Angels one is $30 and said fuck that noise.

How's the red/Black pre-built?


----------



## Xaios

Sicarius said:


> I wanted to get back in, but with one of the commanders decks.
> 
> then I found out the Angels one is $30 and said fuck that noise.
> 
> How's the red/Black pre-built?



Hate to break it to you, but $30 for a functioning EDH deck these days is peanuts. The mono-green deck I described on the last page would cost at very least $300 to put together from scratch if you had to buy all the cards as singles, and it's actually a relatively cheap deck because it has no expensive mana base. Plus, that's without ANY foils.

All that to say that the commander preconstructed decks are actually a tremendously good value. However, if you wanted to get one, I would suggest getting Devour for Power (the one with The Mimeoplasm and Damia, Sage of Stone as generals, Green/Blue/Black). It not only comes with the most value worth of cards from a dollar perspective, but it comes with the most format staples as well, so many of the cards in that deck will be transferable to other decks. Also, The Mimeoplasm has really made a big splash as a general. By most accounts, it's one of the top 4 most popular generals, along with Rafiq of the Many, Sharuum the Hegemon and Uril the Miststalker. It's really powerful, especially after you start tweaking the deck. Heck, the cards you get with the deck are worth more than $100 as singles.

Also, there's no red/black pre-built EDH deck. They are as follows:

Heavenly Inferno - White/Black/Red
Mirror Mastery - Blue/Red/Green
Counterpunch - Black/Green/White
Political Puppets - Red/White/Blue
Devour For Power - Green/Blue/Black

The basic idea was to give people powerful tri-colour generals in colour pairings that hadn't been used before in the history of the game so that they would appeal to existing players as well. Aside from the Planar Chaos dragons (which are also included in each of the precon decks), only Black/Green/White has another possible general in those colours (Doran, the Siege Tower). Otherwise, you'd have to build a 5 colour deck to get those colours together.

The only downside to the precons is that to really make full use of tri-colour generals, you really do need to get hold of better lands. The best ones (Alpha/Beta/Unlimited/Revised dual lands) unfortunately cost an arm and a leg. The next best ones (Shock Lands from Ravnica) are starting to go up in price as well, as are Onslaught/Zendikar fetch lands. Pain Lands and M10/M11/M12 style dual lands can be had though for reasonable prices. Utility lands can be a pain in the ass to acquire as well, stuff like Boseiju, Who Shelters All and Volrath's Stronghold and Stripmine and Winding Canyons.


----------



## Sicarius

I hate to break it to you, but I was actually talking about the red/black precon for standard. I'm a player who's interest in the game fades after a couple of sets and then comes back.
now as such I'm not about to plop down $30 on a deck. especially since I'm not familiar with "edh" play.
just saying.


----------



## Xaios

Sicarius said:


> I hate to break it to you, but I was actually talking about the red/black precon for standard.



Gotcha. To be fair, you weren't particularly clear that your train of thought was veering into Standard, as you had been talking about EDH in the rest of your post and then kind of took a left turn.



Sicarius said:


> I'm a player who's interest in the game fades after a couple of sets and then comes back.
> now as such I'm not about to plop down $30 on a deck. especially since I'm not familiar with "edh" play.
> just saying.



I can certainly understand that. My interest in Magic is directly proportional to the relative strength and influence of the latest set to the meta-game. Scars of Mirrodin didn't really have much effect at all on the meta when it came out, so it didn't really interest me. Mirrodin Besieged had a bit more impact, even if it was just for chase-mythics like Sword of Feast and Famine, Batterskull and Tezzeret 2.0. Then New Phyrexia had a huge impact on multiple formats because of Batterskull, Dismember and Mental Misstep. During that time, my interest in Standard was almost as high as it had been after M11 was released. M12 on the other hand has only had middling influence on standard, so my interest in standard has waned a bit.

I guess it all boils down to how exciting a set is. 

I would encourage you to give EDH a try though, it's a super fun format that rewards creativity more than any other format.


----------



## Sicarius

I played Ext'd in MtGO a lot. And I don't do FNM, the only place out here is ran by a creeper. So I'd be playing with friends when we're really bored. so Std is the way to go.


----------



## Slayer89

Well, if we're talking Standard, here's my latest list that I plan on running at the upcoming GameDay.

Standard Rock

x3 Viridian Emissary
x2 Phyrexian Revoker
x3 Phyrexian Rager
x3 Solemn Simulacrum
x3 Acidic Slime
x2 Grave Titan
x1 Wurmcoil Engine
x1 Rune Scarred Demon
x3 Inquisition of Kozilek
x2 Duress
x2 Doom Blade
x3 Go For The Throat
x2 Dismember
x2 Beast Within
x4 Rampant Growth
x4 Verdant Catacombs
x4 Tectonic Edge
xX Forest and Swamp

x1 Wurmcoil Engine
x1 Ratchet Bomb
x2 Beast Within
x4 Nature's Claim
x3 Creeping Corrosion
x2 Disfigure
x2 Consume the Meek

The Sideboard will probably change a bit, nothing is set in stone there. The only changes I'm looking to make maindeck is probably cutting Rampant Growth, but not sure what for, yet.


----------



## Xaios

Slayer89 said:


> Well, if we're talking Standard, here's my latest list that I plan on running at the upcoming GameDay.
> 
> Standard Rock
> 
> x3 Viridian Emissary
> x2 Phyrexian Revoker
> x3 Phyrexian Rager
> x3 Solemn Simulacrum
> x3 Acidic Slime
> x2 Grave Titan
> x1 Wurmcoil Engine
> x1 Rune Scarred Demon
> x3 Inquisition of Kozilek
> x2 Duress
> x2 Doom Blade
> x3 Go For The Throat
> x2 Dismember
> x2 Beast Within
> x4 Rampant Growth
> x4 Verdant Catacombs
> x4 Tectonic Edge
> xX Forest and Swamp
> 
> x1 Wurmcoil Engine
> x1 Ratchet Bomb
> x2 Beast Within
> x4 Nature's Claim
> x3 Creeping Corrosion
> x2 Disfigure
> x2 Consume the Meek
> 
> The Sideboard will probably change a bit, nothing is set in stone there. The only changes I'm looking to make maindeck is probably cutting Rampant Growth, but not sure what for, yet.



Just out of curiosity, have you thought about running Ob Nixilis? Him and Primeval Titan + fetchlands make for a pretty powerful beater.


----------



## Slayer89

I've played around with Ob Nixilis before, but to be really effective you have to build around it too much for my liking. With my list I'm just going for straight up hand/land disruption, advantage generators, followed by beaters. Just a classic rock list. I do like Ob Nixilis, though.


----------



## Xaios

So, I recently went to Vancouver for a buddy's wedding. While I was there, I stopped in a bunch of places that sell M:TG singles and I purchased, among many other cards, the cards necessary to turn my Omnath EDH deck into a *VICIOUS KILLING MACHINE HELLBENT ON SUPERDEATH*.

So, without further ado...

The decklist!

General (1):
- Omnath, Locus of Mana

Planeswalkers (3):
- Garruk, Primal Hunter
- Garruk Wildspeaker
- Karn Liberated

Creatures (24):
- Acidic Slime (Foil)
- Ant Queen
- Avenger of Zendikar (Foil)
- Brawn
- Deadwood Treefolk
- Dungrove Elder
- Eternal Witness
- Fauna Shaman
- Fierce Empath
- Genesis
- Hornet Queen
- Kamahl, Fist of Krosa
- Lotus Cobra (Foil)
- Magus of the Library
- Primeval Titan
- Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
- Sakura-Tribe Elder (Foil)
- Seedborn Muse
- Terastodon
- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
- Viridian Zealot
- Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger
- Wolfbriar Elemental
- Yavimaya Elder

Artifacts (11):
- Caged Sun
- Doubling Cube
- Eldrazi Monument (Foil)
- Extraplanar Lens
- Lightning Greaves (Foil)
- Mind's Eye
- Planar Portal
- Quicksilver Amulet
- Sensei's Divining Top (Foil)
- Sol Ring (Foil)
- Sword of Feast and Famine

Enchantments (13)
- Aluren
- Asceticism
- Beastmaster Ascension
- Burgeoning
- Defense of the Heart
- Exploration
- Gaea's Touch
- Greater Good
- Mana Reflection
- Nature's Will
- Survival of the Fittest
- Sylvan Library
- Vernal Equinox

Instants (4):
- Beast Within
- Chord of Calling
- Krosan Grip (Foil)
- Worldly Tutor

Sorceries (8):
- All Is Dust
- Cultivate
- Genesis Wave
- Harmonize
- Natural Order
- Overwhelming Stampede
- Skyshroud Claim
- Tooth and Nail

Non-Basic Land (8):
- Gaea's Cradle
- Maze of Ith
- Mosswort Bridge
- Mystifying Maze
- Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers
- Tranquil Thicket
- Winding Canyons
- Yavimaya Hollow

Basic Land (28):
- Forest x 28

These are definitely some huge upgrades, and this deck is now absolutely vicious. Of course, the downside is that it's also really expensive. By my reckoning, to put this deck together from the same sets and same foils that I used would cost about $640, plus the cost of my foil and extended art basic lands. I could put together a viable Legacy Merfolk deck for that much. But man, is it ever fun.

Also, side note. I said I wasn't holding my breath for enemy dual lands in Innistrad on the last page. I'm quite pleased to be wrong in that regard.


----------



## ittoa666

I made a not bad blue black control mill. Pretty schweet. It's based around diabolic tutor, consecrated sphinx, and jace's erasure.


----------



## ShadowFactoryX

i got into magic right before mirrodin came out, and played hard throughout ravnica

i was actually in the process of going to take my DCI judge test, and I just got burned out of it, and started focusing hard on instruments.

every few months, i get into it, and look over the current stuff

but druing the ravnica block i made by far the most efficient 5 color beatdown deck, with control options available, i still have it, and its the pwn for sure


----------



## Xaios

Last weekend, I decided to try making a deck using Karador, Ghost Chieftain as a general. I finally got to play it last night. Alas, I found it to be quite underwhelming, as it was just too damn slow. So, I dismantled it, and from the ashes, I reassembled my Ghave, Guru of Spores deck with some alterations. To put it mildly, it's AWESOME.

Here's the decklist:

General (1):
- Ghave, Guru of Spores

Creatures (17):
- Academy Rector
- Avenger of Zendikar
- Dauntless Escort
- Eternal Witness
- Genesis
- Juniper Order Ranger
- Knight of the Reliquary
- Mentor of the Meek
- Primeval Titan
- Psychotrope Thallid
- Qasali Pridemage
- Rhys the Redeemed
- Sakura-Tribe Elder
- Seedborn Muse
- Sigil Captain
- Skullmulcher
- Woodfall Primus

Artifacts (10):
- Akroma's Memorial
- Ashnod's Altar
- Coalition Relic
- Eldrazi Monument
- Expedition Map
- Lightning Greaves
- Sensei's Divining Top
- Skull of Orm
- Skullclamp
- Sword of Feast and Famine

Enchantments (17)
- Asceticism
- Attrition
- Aura Shards
- Debtors' Knell
- Doubling Season
- Earthcraft
- Glare of Subdual
- Gravepact
- Greater Auramancy
- Mana Reflection
- Marshal's Anthem
- Martyr's Bond
- Mirari's Wake
- Parallel Lives
- Priviliged Position
- Sterling Grove
- Sylvan Library

Instants (10):
- Beast Within
- Crop Rotation
- Eladamri's Call
- Enlightened Tutor
- Krosan Grip
- Mortify
- Path to Exile
- Putrefy
- Swords to Plowshares
- Vampiric Tutor

Sorceries (10):
- Austere Command
- Bitter Ordeal
- Demonic Tutor
- Harmonize
- Idyllic Tutor
- Maelstrom Pulse
- Martial Coup
- Replenish
- Tooth and Nail
- Vindicate

Non-Basic Lands (30):
- Arid Mesa
- Brushland
- Caves of Koilos
- City of Brass
- Command Tower
- Gaea's Cradle
- Gavony Township
- Godless Shrine
- Grand Coliseum
- Homeward Path
- Isolated Chapel
- Llanowar Wastes
- Marsh Flats
- Misty Rainforest
- Murmuring Bosk
- Overgrown Tomb
- Razorverge Thicket
- Reflecting Pool
- Reliquary Tower
- Rupture Spire
- Savannah
- Stirring Wildwood
- Strip Mine
- Sunpetal Grove
- Tectonic Edge
- Temple Garden
- Verdant Catacombs
- Vesuva
- Volrath's Stronghold
- Woodland Cemetery

Basic Lands (5):
- Forest x 2
- Plains x 2
- Swamp x 1

On the surface he definitely looks like a token-centric general. However, through much testing, I've come to understand that he's definitely more of a combo/control type general.

One thing I need to do is figure out how to squeeze Tooth and Nail into this deck. The reason is because Juniper Order Ranger + Woodfall Primus + Sacrifice Outlet (either Ghave or Ashnod's Altar) = Win, because it lets you blow up all their non-creature permanents, meaning you can annihilate their mana base. Ghave also interacts incredibly with with Grave Pact and Martyr's Bond. The deck has an incredible amount of built-in protection, and can also recover if that gets broken through.

*EDIT:* Tooth and Nail has been inserted.


----------



## ittoa666

Finally got a hold of two Jace, memory adept's and I couldn't be happier.


----------



## ShadowFactoryX

wish i was up to date on this so i could actually comprehend that decklist


----------



## Slayer89

Be jumping back and forth between standard decklists. First was running Solar Flare, then UR Counterburn, considered UW Tokens, and now have settled back to my tried and true UB Control.

I love Snapcaster.


----------



## ghostred7

I haven't seen the Planeswalker stuff yet....weird to me with the lack of atk/def and the +1, -6, etc stuff (used to do tourneys back in '97-'98) but haven't done anything but the video game in quite some time.

Outside of those...seems pretty nasty tho....nice deck.


----------



## Slayer89

I cant believe how much Consecrated Sphinx has gone up. I must have pulled a whole playset and traded them all off at around $3 each.


----------



## Xaios

I was pretty shocked that they were going for such a low price in the first place. As soon as I saw that card spoiled before Mirrodin Beseiged, I knew it was ridiculous. Alas, it had no place in the meta with JaceTMS, Stoneforge Mystic and Squadron Hawk ruling the roost. With the banning and rotation of those cards, Consecrated Sphinx was finally allowed to shine.


----------



## Xaios

So, does anyone else still play? I've got a pretty sweet Standard W/G humans decklist I put together that has been kicking ass and taking names at FNM, if anyone wants to try it.

Creatures (31):
4x Champion of the Parish
4x Avacyn's Pilgrim
3x Mikaeus, the Lunarch
4x Mayor of Avabruck
3x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4x Mentor of the Meek
3x Mirran Crusader
4x Hero of Bladehold
2x Angelic Overseer

Sorceries (3):
3x Gather the Townsfolk

Enchantments (4):
4x Oblivion Ring

Land (22):
4x Razorverge Thicket
4x Sunpetal Grove
2x Gavony Township
8x Plains
4x Forest

Sideboard (15):
3x Beast Within
3x Dismember
3x Ratchet Bomb
2x Naturalize
2x Celestial Purge
2x Geist-Honored Monk (I'll probably be dropping these in favor of Corrosive Gale, with W/B and Esper tokens being a thing right now.)

I have to say, Thalia is freaking legit. I thought that she would suffer because she was Legendary and so you could only have one on the field, but it turns out she's good enough that it doesn't even matter. She went from my sideboard to my maindeck, and I haven't looked back since.


----------



## ittoa666

Sounds like a good deck. I'm not really a fan of the aggro decks everyone uses, so I built a RG wolf run. Just built a new brew, too. Check it.

4 Color Experiment (Standard* MTG Deck)


----------



## Slayer89

Gonna head over to a buddy's to play now. Been playing GR Aggro lately. A pretty stock list except with Red Sun's Zenith for Undying guys and a 2/2 split of swords. Took it to my first big event and despite some big misplays made 84/330 that day, so not horrendous.


----------



## ittoa666

Slayer89 said:


> Gonna head over to a buddy's to play now. Been playing GR Aggro lately. A pretty stock list except with Red Sun's Zenith for Undying guys and a 2/2 split of swords. Took it to my first big event and despite some big misplays made 84/330 that day, so not horrendous.



GW is effective? I'm guessing you ramp to something huge, or travel prep everything. Either way, Avacyn's Pilgrim.


----------



## Xaios

First card of the new set spoiled today.


----------



## ittoa666

She can't be tragic slipped'd, but my o rings love the look of this. They really want people to play black white in this format, and I don't know how I feel about that. All I can hope for is 2013 being absolutely ridiculous. I wanna see some steroid titans.


----------



## Slayer89

Yeah, she can be tragic slipped. But I highly doubt she'll see much constructed play. 8 mana for a no haste, no immediate effect beater is iffy when Elesh Norn is available.


----------



## ittoa666

Slayer89 said:


> Yeah, she can be tragic slipped. But I highly doubt she'll see much constructed play. 8 mana for a no haste, no immediate effect beater is iffy when Elesh Norn is available.



I don't think she's great, but a nice draft bomb if you get her.

I think I forgot how indestructible works. Oops.


----------



## AnarchyDivine88

I used to play Magic when I was a kid. I had a black and green Biorhythm deck that I constructed which revolved around drawing the Biorhythm card (I had 4 of them) from the deck. It was filled with cards to kill the opponents creatures outright (such as Visara the Dreadful) and draw cards from my deck, and then once I drew Biorhythm I would play it, which would make each of our life totals equal to the number of creatures we had on the field. Since I killed all their creatures, I would win immediately upon playing the card. Kinda cheap, I know  I won almost every time with that strategy and eventually no one would play with me  I haven't played since.

Idk how much the rules have changed since, so maybe none of that even makes sense anymore. It was fun, but I'm not into that stuff anymore. I don't even know what happened to all my cards. 

Just thought I'd share.


----------



## Xaios

AnarchyDivine88 said:


> I used to play Magic when I was a kid. I had a black and green Biorhythm deck that I constructed which revolved around drawing the Biorhythm card (I had 4 of them) from the deck. It was filled with cards to kill the opponents creatures outright (such as Visara the Dreadful) and draw cards from my deck, and then once I drew Biorhythm I would play it, which would make each of our life totals equal to the number of creatures we had on the field. Since I killed all their creatures, I would win immediately upon playing the card. Kinda cheap, I know  I won almost every time with that strategy and eventually no one would play with me  I haven't played since.
> 
> Idk how much the rules have changed since, so maybe none of that even makes sense anymore. It was fun, but I'm not into that stuff anymore. I don't even know what happened to all my cards.
> 
> Just thought I'd share.



It's still a legitimate strategy, but Biorhythm is too expensive to see play in most formats (Vintage, Legacy, Modern) and it's banned in EDH.

And yeah, the honeymoon for Avacyn has worn off a bit, but I still think she'll be an awesome card in EDH. The main reason that she isn't great in the current standard meta is that there are answers for her currently that people are actually playing (Oblivion Ring, Tragic Slip, Vapor Snag). Same reason Phyrexian Obliterator didn't see much play beyond casual tables until Dark Ascension came out and mono-black became a legitimate deck, due to the presence of Dismember. However, the only card currently in Standard that will be around to deal with her post-rotation is Tragic Slip (although I wouldn't bet against them reprinting O-Ring in M13).

In EDH though, the only cards that exile anything that see much play are Path to Exile, Swords to Plowshares and Duplicant. Even O-Ring doesn't see a lot of play, and the only bounce spell anyone plays is Capsize. Throw on a Lightning Greaves, Swiftfoot Boots or Champion's Helm, though, and she becomes VERY difficult to deal with.


----------



## ittoa666

I really hope the change the o ring art this time around. I'm also still hoping for the titans to get reprinted a third time, or at least be replaced by something new and cool.


----------



## ShadowFactoryX

every couple months i go through and look at whats out

still cant get back into it since i left after ravnica

skullclamp/ravager i miss you


----------



## Slayer89

Yeah, Avacyn is definitely cool, but I mainly play Standard, so it's how I evaluate most new cards at first, haha.

So I just sleeved up a Knowledge Pool deck. It's preeeeetty bad right now, but I'm going to make it at least FNM viable. My current goal since my "serious" deck is pretty well tuned.


----------



## WhiteWalls

ittoa666 said:


> I really hope the change the o ring art this time around. I'm also still hoping for the titans to get reprinted a third time, or at least be replaced by something new and cool.


I don't like the titans because they are just so much better that any other 6 casting cost creature available so there's no chance for other stuff to see play, I would prefer something a little less powerful

I miss skullclamp/ravager too, even if that format was so broken that wizards had the lowest average tournament attendance ever during that period


----------



## ittoa666

WhiteWalls said:


> I don't like the titans because they are just so much better that any other 6 casting cost creature available so there's no chance for other stuff to see play, I would prefer something a little less powerful
> 
> I miss skullclamp/ravager too, even if that format was so broken that wizards had the lowest average tournament attendance ever during that period



It doesn't help that they are in EVERY deck either. I do love sun titan though. Nothing like Venser'ing one and bouncing everything back from the grave, which brings me to my next point. I'm not a big fan of the focus on graveyard play in standard right now, unless we're talking about undying.


----------



## WhiteWalls

ittoa666 said:


> It doesn't help that they are in EVERY deck either. I do love sun titan though. Nothing like Venser'ing one and bouncing everything back from the grave, which brings me to my next point. I'm not a big fan of the focus on graveyard play in standard right now, unless we're talking about undying.


Yeah sun titan is a bit different because at least you have to do a bit of work to make it good, unlike grave titan (drop 10 power on the table for 6 mana, problem? )


----------



## Xaios

ittoa666 said:


> I really hope the change the o ring art this time around. I'm also still hoping for the titans to get reprinted a third time, or at least be replaced by something new and cool.



I also hope the O-Ring art gets changed for M13, but not because I don't like the current art. Most people I talk to prefer the Lorwyn art most, but I like the Alara art most for that card. However, variety is the spice of life, and new art certainly couldn't hurt.

Regarding the titans... no, they've gotta go. R&D already admitted it was a mistake to print them again in M12. As fun as they are to play with, they make a lot of other cards obsolete by their presence. It's similar to how, when Jace was around, certain other cards, great cards in their own right, were useless such as Hero of Bladehold. I picked up a full set of them for $4 each when Jace was around because Jace (and Caw Blade in general) made them worthless, now they're worth $15. The only titan in existence with a better option in Standard is Frost Titan, and that's because a) it's the worst titan, and b) Consecrated Sphinx and Dungeon Geists also see play.



Slayer89 said:


> So I just sleeved up a Knowledge Pool deck. It's preeeeetty bad right now, but I'm going to make it at least FNM viable. My current goal since my "serious" deck is pretty well tuned.



No offense, but there's just no way Knowledge Pool will ever be a viable card for anything except 2 things: 1) EDH (Knowledge Pool + Teferi = GG), and 2) kindling. It's a TERRIBLE card.


----------



## ittoa666

I see what you're saying. I wonder what's gonna replace those beasts?


----------



## Xaios

Hopefully something new.


----------



## Xaios

So, my EDH playgroup as of late has been devolving into nothing but "MUST WIN AT ALL COST" combo. Admittedly, I'm quite guilty of building decks like that. So, I decided to try and build a deck that focused around fun. And where does fun come from? Playing gigantic splashy creatures!

So, I built a new Animar deck:

General (1):
- Animar, Soul of Elements

Creatures (43):
- Artisan of Kozilek
- Avatar of Slaughter
- Avenger of Zendikar
- Cold-Eyed Selkie
- Consecrated Sphinx
- Draining Whelk
- Edric, Spymaster of Trest
- Experiment Kraj
- Farhaven Elf
- Forgotten Ancient
- Garruk's Horde
- Heartwood Storyteller
- Inferno Titan
- Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
- Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
- Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
- Krosan Drover
- Loaming Shaman
- Mulldrifter
- Mystic Snake
- Nin, the Pain Artist
- Novijen Sages
- Nullstone Gargoyle
- Phyrexian Ingester
- Phyrexian Metamorph
- Primeval Titan
- Primordial Hydra
- Primordial Sage
- Riku of Two Reflections
- Sakashima the Impostor
- Seedborn Muse
- Silklash Spider
- Simic Sky Swallower
- Solemn Simulacrum
- Steel Hellkite
- Sun Quan, Lord of Wu
- Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
- Terastodon
- Trygon Predator
- Urabrask the Hidden
- Venser, Shaper Savant
- Vigor
- Yavimaya Elder

Artifacts (8):
- Cloudstone Curio
- Darksteel Ingot
- Gruul Signet
- Lightning Greaves
- Sensei's Divining Top
- Simic Signet
- Sol Ring
- Whispersilk Cloak

Enchantments (6):
- Doubling Season
- Leyline of Anticipation
- Parallel Lives
- Rhystic Study
- Warstorm Surge
- Wild Pair

Instants: NONE!

Sorceries (4):
- Biomantic Mastery
- Hull Breach
- Rite of Replication
- Spitting Image

Planeswalkers (1):
- Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Non-Basic Lands (22):
- Ancient Ziggurat
- Arid Mesa
- Breeding Pool
- Cascade Bluffs
- Command Tower
- Flooded Grove
- Hinterland Harbor
- Minamo, School at Water's Edge
- Misty Rainforest
- Oran-Rief, the Vastwood
- Raging Ravine
- Reflecting Pool
- Reliquary Tower
- Rootbound Crag
- Rupture Spire
- Scalding Tarn
- Steam Vents
- Stomping Ground
- Sulfur Falls
- Temple of the False God
- Tropical Island
- Vesuva

Basic Lands (15):
6x Forest
6x Island
3x Mountain

There's a few cards that I still want to put in. But it seems to be running pretty darn well so far. And it is a LOT of fun to play, even as a casual deck.


----------



## Slayer89

Xaios said:


> No offense, but there's just no way Knowledge Pool will ever be a viable card for anything except 2 things: 1) EDH (Knowledge Pool + Teferi = GG), and 2) kindling. It's a TERRIBLE card.



No, considering the amount of terribly slow decks people like to play at low level FNMs it's perfectly viable. Turn 3/4 Curse of Exhaustion followed by a Knowledge Pool is enough to make most FNM goers scoop after explainging what will happen. Even if you do it too fast without setting up a wincon, lol.

But no, I have my real deck. This is just a shitty little annoy randoms combo deck for when I get bored, lol.


----------



## Slayer89

Also, I have to say, I love Huntmaster of the Fells. IMO, the best "fair" card printed in a while.


----------



## Xaios

Slayer89 said:


> No, considering the amount of terribly slow decks people like to play at low level FNMs it's perfectly viable. Turn 3/4 Curse of Exhaustion followed by a Knowledge Pool is enough to make most FNM goers scoop after explainging what will happen. Even if you do it too fast without setting up a wincon, lol.
> 
> But no, I have my real deck. This is just a shitty little annoy randoms combo deck for when I get bored, lol.



Boy, your FNM is sure as heck different than mine, in that case. That kind of deck would get SLAUGHTERED where I play.


----------



## Slayer89

Well, two shops "in my area" (one is 15 minutes away and the other is 40). The closest one is terrible. Constantly see decks like "BW Human Sacrifice" and other similar jank. Some days I go in with GR aggro (extremely similar to Jackie Lee's list) and just do really well, but if it's a money free event I'll take weird goofy decks just to mess around. The further away shop is a lot better, but gas is expensive, haha.


----------



## Xaios

It's official:








Awwwwww yeeeaaaaaaaaaah.


----------



## ittoa666

OH SHIT! /\

Btw, have any of you seen the new miracle text? You can play a 6 drop burn for 1 mountain if you topdeck it. Avacyn is going to be soooo broken.


----------



## ittoa666




----------



## Slayer89

Yeah, it's insane if you topdeck it, but jank if you don't. Don't get me wrong, it looks like fun and pretty good, but too situational to qualify as broken.

On another note, seeing Ravnica+Jace+Niv Mizzet has me PRETTY excited.


----------



## ittoa666

Slayer89 said:


> Yeah, it's insane if you topdeck it, but jank if you don't. Don't get me wrong, it looks like fun and pretty good, but too situational to qualify as broken.
> 
> On another note, seeing Ravnica+Jace+Niv Mizzet has me PRETTY excited.



If you have 4 and you need a quick 5 for the win, it's good, but I see what you're saying. You easily have 5 for 3 in Brimstone Volley.

That new block has me all kinds of excited.


----------



## caskettheclown

Hey guys i'm looking to get into Magic the Gathering...
Long story short I miss playing card games like yu gi oh and such and feel i'm ready to take this on.

Can you guys give me any tips advice or anything? 
A link to a site would work as well.

I know literally nothing about the game so I need to know the rules and everything else...

After I do some research and learn a good bit i'll buy a starter deck just to get a feel for the gameplay and then eventually veer off in my own direction deck wise.


----------



## ittoa666

Check out some of the wizards sites, and also give the games they have on pc and the xbox arcade out. 

Here's some links.

wizardsmtg - YouTube

Their youtube channel is killer because you can see how the pros build their decks.

Trading Card Game : Magic: The Gathering

General site for all of their stuff with a how-to page.

MTG Deck Builder and Community - TappedOut.net

That one's for when your ready to plan your decks and share them.

:EDIT: Here's a good site to buy from, and they have cool videos on there as well.

http://www.channelfireball.com/


----------



## caskettheclown

ittoa666 said:


> Check out some of the wizards sites, and also give the games they have on pc and the xbox arcade out.
> 
> Here's some links.
> 
> wizardsmtg - YouTube
> 
> Their youtube channel is killer because you can see how the pros build their decks.
> 
> Trading Card Game : Magic: The Gathering
> 
> General site for all of their stuff with a how-to page.
> 
> MTG Deck Builder and Community - TappedOut.net
> 
> That one's for when your ready to plan your decks and share them.
> 
> :EDIT: Here's a good site to buy from, and they have cool videos on there as well.
> 
> Magic: The Gathering &#8211; Strategy, Singles, Cards, Decks




Thanks a lot! I've been reading up and learning a lot and found some of the old cards my grandma gave me when I was a kid (which I have no earthly idea how she got them).

So far its a bit confusing getting used to the lingo and such but once I get a starter deck i'll probably catch on a lot faster.

EDIT- just looked at some of the cards and some are early as 1994! I know this probably means nothing in terms of anything but I think its neat


----------



## ittoa666

caskettheclown said:


> Thanks a lot! I've been reading up and learning a lot and found some of the old cards my grandma gave me when I was a kid (which I have no earthly idea how she got them).
> 
> So far its a bit confusing getting used to the lingo and such but once I get a starter deck i'll probably catch on a lot faster.
> 
> EDIT- just looked at some of the cards and some are early as 1994! I know this probably means nothing in terms of anything but I think its neat



You might have some very valuable cards. The game started in 93 and most of the old 3rd edition stuff is high dollar. Name some of them.


----------



## caskettheclown

ittoa666 said:


> You might have some very valuable cards. The game started in 93 and most of the old 3rd edition stuff is high dollar. Name some of them.



Ruins of Trokair 1994
Abjure 1997
Flux 1997
Slippery Karst 1993
Tolarian Drake 1997
Knight of the Mists 1996
Pegasus Charger 1993
Phantom Wings 1997
Clairvoyance 1995
Dream Fighter 1996
Brainstorm 1995
Tidal Flats 1994
Snow Devil 1995
Arnjlots Ascent1995
Smoldering Crater 1993
Aysen Abbey 1995
Soar 1996
Sandbar Crocodile 1996
Maze of Shadows 1997
Reality Ripple 1996

I'll edit and post more but I want to go ahead and put this in case my computer overheats and shuts off...


----------



## ittoa666

Nothing worth much in that list, except that old brainstorm, but that's only about $1.30.

I'm excited to see what else you list. Also, don't forget that all of that stuff is not playable in a majority of events you can play in (standard at friday night magic), but you might know that already.


----------



## caskettheclown

ittoa666 said:


> Nothing worth much in that list, except that old brainstorm, but that's only about $1.30.
> 
> I'm excited to see what else you list. Also, don't forget that all of that stuff is not playable in a majority of events you can play in (standard at friday night magic), but you might know that already.



I figured it wouldn't be playable anymore, I was planning on getting a starter deck anyway since I learn better that way anyway.

thats pretty much it except for things like swamp and mountain and forest and things of that nature....

Learning I was just going to play with a couple friends who have been playing a long time till I get comfortable playing and not looking at the rule book every other turn


----------



## ittoa666

Check this art guys.


----------



## ittoa666

caskettheclown said:


> I figured it wouldn't be playable anymore, I was planning on getting a starter deck anyway since I learn better that way anyway.
> 
> thats pretty much it except for things like swamp and mountain and forest and things of that nature....



The Innistrad and Dark Ascension starter decks are really cool. A lot of things happen with those cards to help you get your bearings. Also, try out some of the event decks. They have rares and other valuable cards from their set that all work with each other.


----------



## caskettheclown

I'll stick with a starter deck and hope one of my friends will make me a deck from his unused cards till I can afford something decent geared towards me.

I can't spend a whole lot of money at once (Meaning 15 US dollars MAX) since i'm struggling financially and from what I hear even decks are a bit more than a starter deck

Thanks for helping btw!


----------



## ittoa666

caskettheclown said:


> I'll stick with a starter deck and hope one of my friends will make me a deck from his unused cards till I can afford something decent geared towards me.
> 
> I can't spend a whole lot of money at once (Meaning 15 US dollars MAX) since i'm struggling financially and from what I hear even decks are a bit more than a starter deck
> 
> Thanks for helping btw!



 Glad I could hook you up with the info man. Have fun playing.


----------



## tacotiklah

Man I wanna get back into this game, but I haven't played in like 6 years and pretty much forgotten how. I need to find some people that play as well....


----------



## ittoa666

It's a good set to get into right now.


----------



## tacotiklah

Yeah I see they took away Ravnica and then brought it back. I had the most amazing swamp deck themed around a corrupt and fanatical church with Vampires and bats and shit. It was too funny having like 25 bats out and then pumping them up to 25/25.


----------



## ittoa666

Sounds like a good time to me.


----------



## tacotiklah

I loved the card Castigate on it too. Nothing like instantly destroying any card on the field to make your opponent weep. (at least I think that's what the card was called anyways)

God I've been out of this game far too long.... 

Edit:
Completely wrong on all accounts, but I finally found my old deck:
http://www.abugames.com/item166609-new/0/104-magic/Guildpact-Theme-Deck-1---Code-of-the-Orzhov.html

It was the old Guildpact Code of the Orzhov. I bought it brand new, so you can tell it's been a while since I played.


----------



## caskettheclown

Got the Dark Ascension starter deck! Got the necromancy one with Havengul Runebinder on the back. So far its fun


----------



## tacotiklah

A funny MTG related story happened to me:

I got trolled pretty hard by my bank last night as I was trying to order an Innistrad Eldritch Onlslaught deck. I had just enough on my card to order it + shipping (pulled most of my money off said card so I can pay for my car smog/diagnostic stuff in cash). Just to be sure I checked my balance and I had enough. Go through all the links and enter all my info in the forms. When I click on "confirm order", I'm told my balance wasn't enough. Lolwut?
Double check and sure enough, between the time I checked my balance the first and second time, pin-related fees had eaten up $3 and I was short. So my plans for a new deck are on halt for now. Trolololol on my bank's part. 


Looking back though, I'm kinda glad I didn't get that particular deck since it seems kinda weak. Carnival of Blood looks awesome though.


----------



## Xaios

I've only been playing for a couple years thus far, but I've managed to pick up a few nice cards. Nothing in the Power 9 or anything like that, but still some decent stuff. The most valuable card I own is a judge foil Gaea's Cradle which is worth about $130 currently. That's followed closely by my Revised (3rd Edition) Tropical Island, worth about $120. Then I've got 2 Tarmogoyfs which are worth $100 each. Finally, I've got a full set of 4 Jace, The Mind Sculptors. Right now they're hovering between $50 and $60 each, but if Temporal Mastery (click for image) becomes a legitimate card in Legacy, the value of those will go up as they enable library manipulation for topdecking.

Edit: Also, holy balls Batman!


----------



## ittoa666

Xaios said:


> I've only been playing for a couple years thus far, but I've managed to pick up a few nice cards. Nothing in the Power 9 or anything like that, but still some decent stuff. The most valuable card I own is a judge foil Gaea's Cradle which is worth about $130 currently. That's followed closely by my Revised (3rd Edition) Tropical Island, worth about $120. Then I've got 2 Tarmogoyfs which are worth $100 each. Finally, I've got a full set of 4 Jace, The Mind Sculptors. Right now they're hovering between $50 and $60 each, but if Temporal Mastery (click for image) becomes a legitimate card in Legacy, the value of those will go up as they enable library manipulation for topdecking.
> 
> Edit: Also, holy balls Batman!
> 
> *Broken Devil Card*



That's pretty cool. I think the most I had in one card was about 40 bucks or something because I had a flooded strand and a couple windswept heath's that I traded for a buttload of stuff.

But yeah, that Devil is stupid good. I mean, 4 for 1, and if it resolves without the 4 going through, you still get a 4/3. Who was smoking crack when they let that one through?  I'll be putting 4 in my red green wolf run in place of shocks.


----------



## Xaios

Actually, now that I think about it, it's good, but not retarded. It has to be examined relative to what your typical RDW deck is trying to accomplish. During the early game, RDW wants to establish board presence. The best standard cards for that currently are Stromkirk Noble and Reckless Waif. However, in the early game, your opponent is ALWAYS going to choose to take the 4 damage.

Conversely, late game, RDW wants more burn spells. Unfortunately, once your opponent has established board presence, he's always going to choose to let it stay as a creature, and one that can be chump blocked all day.

I still think it's a great card that will certainly find a home in RDW cards as I think it applies fantastic mid-game pressure, but it's not the be-all-end-all that I thought when I first saw it.


----------



## ittoa666

The RDW point is definitely true, but I think it's perfect for wolf run since you don't have the same issue as you would with reckless waif (flipping). If the opponent is dumb enough to let it on the field, they take the chance of him getting pumped, and if they take the 4, they have to take on immerwolf.


----------



## Xaios

PREPARE TO EVACUATE YOUR BOWELS.


----------



## tacotiklah

Mother of God...


----------



## ittoa666

Wow. Tamiyo is ridiculous. Oh the shenanigans.


----------



## ittoa666

bump


----------



## Xaios

I'm not a fan of new the new Planeswalker "Tibalt." Awesome art, not a great card though.


----------



## ittoa666

Xaios said:


> I'm not a fan of new the new Planeswalker "Tibalt." Awesome art, not a great card though.



But he's stupid cheap, he doesn't force into a certain color, AND he has insurrection as his ultimate. I think it's cool.

Also, I got the Vense vs. Koth deck today. Very cool stuff in it, but I wish it had more standard alternate arts. I would have liked to see a Venser'd O ring.


----------



## ittoa666

Also, just pulled a copperline gorge holo from a pack. $12 right there.


----------



## caskettheclown

I sucked up and bought a deckbuilding toolkit!

First thing I did was make a blackwhite deck because for some reason I wanted a deck with angels. I then realized that I didn't much like the idea of the deck revolving around 2-3 cards sooo i'm most likely going to make a blackblue deck. The cards just seem to fit well together

Got a bunch of decent stuff in there to really keep me occupied!

EDIT- Holy shit i'm looking forward to Avacyn Restored! Tamiyo looks badass!

DOUBLE EDIT- Blue and Black deck made!


----------



## ittoa666

Always remember how your cards work together. Also, unless you're playing standard now, try not to combine enemy colors (black white, red white, blue red, green blue, or and other combo), unless you really know what you're doing. Here's some more info on that.

Enemy color - MTG Salvation Wiki

My opinion on Avacyn is that it's broken as all hell, and it's going to get very fun and interesting soon. So many new combos and effects. I already know I'm putting the 2 cost plainswalker in my red green deck.


----------



## tacotiklah

Just pulled the trigger on a Venser vs. Koth deck and two booster packs. Plus I cannibalized some cards from a half complete goblin deck for my Koth deck. Added cards like Spitting Earth, Siege Gang Commander, Ib Halfheart, Clickslither and Skirk Fire Marshal along with some artifacts from those boosters. Since the Koth deck is all mountain, I won't have to worry too much about being mana screwed. I'll still add more mountain cards just in case. But dear lord is that deck primed for killing someone off in a hurry now. 
Plus those goblins I added are set to add a bunch of 1/1 goblins to the field. I need a couple cards to boost them up greatly and my Koth deck will really mow people down then.
I dig the hell out of Koth's ability to turn your lands into 4/4 creatures while still being land too. Add Vulshoks Battlegear and morningstar and be raped by my own land.


----------



## ittoa666

The duel deck is pretty cool. I just picked one up, too, mainly for the planeswalkers, but I figured the price is gonna skyrocket on them. Plus, those emblems are expensive, too.

I do wish it had some more standard stuff in it though.


----------



## Xaios

The problem I see with the recent Duel decks is that Wizards seems to design them more for casual players while simultaneously marketing them towards hardcore players. The Venser vs. Koth deck was an especially egregious example of this, as its central conflict is something only Vorthos players like myself (MTG lore hounds) care about, and alternate art cards are something competitive players go nuts for. Alas, the decks themselves were too underpowered to garner the interest of competitive players. Honestly, for me, it basically came down to the alternate art on Path to Exile. If it had been nicer, I probably would have picked up a copy. Unfortunately, once it was finally revealed, I hated it.

It's a problem that's gotten worse over time as well. The first 3 planeswalker duel decks were actually quite good (Jace vs. Chandra, Liliana vs. Garruk, Elspeth vs. Tezzeret), but then Knights vs. Dragons and Ajani vs. Bolas were markedly worse than the ones before them, and now Venser vs. Koth is even more de-powered.


----------



## Slayer89

Venser VS Koth was pretty cool. My buddy picked it up and we played the decks a couple times. Maybe it was just draws, but each game I played with the Venser deck and it never really felt close at all. I won each game pretty handily.

On Avacyn Restored, so far I'm excited about this







Other than that, Miracle stuff looks cool, but I'm putting all my focus on Standard/Modern/Limited right now. So I doubt they'll have much of a serious impact on what I'm doing. Also, Phantasmal Image better see a reprint with all these legendary cards, haha.


----------



## ittoa666

I'm not sure what will happen to phantasmal image. I hope they do something similar, but it need to cost a few more, or at least 1 and 2 U.


----------



## Slayer89

I hope not. They've finally made playable clones, so I'd just hate for them to go back to junk rares.


----------



## Xaios

To be honest, I can't see them reprinting Phantasmal Image in M13. M12 included a cycle of Illusions such as Phantasmal Image, Phantasmal Bear and Phantasmal Dragon, along with a lord type card in Lord of the Unreal. I imagine they'll want to move on to something else with M13, as they've learned their lesson about reprinting powerful cards in core sets too many times *cough*titans*cough*.


----------



## Slayer89

Anyone here play Pauper? It and Momir are my go to formats on MODO (investing in Paper standard is expensive enough on its own, haha).


----------



## caskettheclown

Won my first duel today! I'm really glad I made my blue/black deck!

I went in to a game shop where its mostly warhammer and magic the gathering and D&D. Its run by this really old and extremely nice guy who just gave me blue planeswalkers 30 Card starter Deck and my girlfriend the green one after I bought a booster pack. I found my friday night magic!


EDIT-Wow I feel like a noob feeling happy I won my first actual duel but oh well...

I lost the first two and won the third one before I had to go.


----------



## Xaios

*MOTHER FUCKERS!*






Translation:

*Cavern of Souls* - Land
As Cavern of Souls enters the battlefield, choose a creature type.

T: Add one colorless mana to your mana pool.
T: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool. Spend this mana only to cast creature spells of the chosen creature type. If this mana is spent on a spell, that spell can't be countered by spells or abilities.


----------



## Andromalia

A friend tried to hook me up to Magic again, but it's hard to get excited about cards that are so less powerful than before, although I understand for the sake of gameplay turn two victories might not be best.


----------



## ittoa666

Andromalia said:


> A friend tried to hook me up to Magic again, but it's hard to get excited about cards that are so less powerful than before, although I understand for the sake of gameplay turn two victories might not be best.



The game is extremely balanced right now.


----------



## Xaios

ittoa666 said:


> The game is extremely balanced right now.



I don't know if I'd say that, but I will say it took a lot longer to settle into dominant archetypes this time around. Let's be fair though, currently in Standard, W/U Delver is the deck to beat. It's starting to become the new Cawblade. Thankfully, my G/W Humans deck has a fairly good matchup against it. On the flipside though, I have a bad matchup against U/B Control.

Thankfully, the format will be refreshing soon with Avacyn Restored, and oh mama, does this set ever have some nutty good cards!


----------



## ittoa666

Xaios said:


> I don't know if I'd say that, but I will say it took a lot longer to settle into dominant archetypes this time around. Let's be fair though, currently in Standard, W/U Delver is the deck to beat. It's starting to become the new Cawblade. Thankfully, my G/W Humans deck has a fairly good matchup against it. On the flipside though, I have a bad matchup against U/B Control.
> 
> Thankfully, the format will be refreshing soon with Avacyn Restored, and oh mama, does this set ever have some nutty good cards!



I meant "balanced" as in no turn 2 deaths. I have a buddy that plays a human champion of the parish deck and he has a turn 4 kill if he plays right. It's stupid fast.


----------



## caskettheclown

Winning that quickly wouldn't be fun for me in any card game. Every now and then it would be neat but thats it.

I like the long drawn out ones that are neck and neck.


----------



## Xaios

ittoa666 said:


> I meant "balanced" as in no turn 2 deaths. I have a buddy that plays a human champion of the parish deck and he has a turn 4 kill if he plays right. It's stupid fast.



I can also get T4 deaths in my Humans deck. Granted, with my terrible luck, I'm just happy not to be drawing tokens. 

As far as balanced goes... when was the last time ANY turn 2 kill deck existed in Standard?


----------



## Slayer89

T1: Reveal Chancellor of the Forge getting a 1/1 haste, Swamp, Mutagenic Growth, growth, growth, growth, tainted strike. Turn 1 kill.

Oh, a legitimate Turn 2 kill? Not for a long time, haha.

Yeah, Delver is probably the "best" deck right now, but no where near Caw Blade. Look at tournament results. There's usually at least 3 or 4 different archetypes in most Top 8s. Back in CawBlade dominance there was usually 8 decks with roughly 72 of the same cards at least. Here's to hoping Avacyn Restored has something to introduce something new to the field.


----------



## Xaios

Slayer89 said:


> T1: Reveal Chancellor of the Forge getting a 1/1 haste, Swamp, Mutagenic Growth, growth, growth, growth, tainted strike. Turn 1 kill.
> 
> Oh, a legitimate Turn 2 kill? Not for a long time, haha.
> 
> Yeah, Delver is probably the "best" deck right now, but no where near Caw Blade. Look at tournament results. There's usually at least 3 or 4 different archetypes in most Top 8s. Back in CawBlade dominance there was usually 8 decks with roughly 72 of the same cards at least. Here's to hoping Avacyn Restored has something to introduce something new to the field.



Sure, Caw Blade was dominant, but it certainly wasn't the only kid on the block. You had U/R Twin, RUG Pod, B/R Vampires, Tempered Steel, U/B Control (which never really goes out of style), Eldrazi Ramp (which had an EXCELLENT matchup against Caw Blade), Kuldotha Red, Boros, and, of course, Valakut.


----------



## Slayer89

No, the last few months before the ban of JTMS and Stoneforge, Caw Blade WAS the only kid (at least non-special ed kid). 9 times out of 10 you either played Caw Blade or lost to Caw Blade. Sure, every now and then 1 deck might top 8 that wasn't Caw Blade, but nothing would last. Hell, the only reason Twin stuck around was because it got fused into TwinBlade. It was extremely different than the format we have now.


----------



## Xaios

Slayer89 said:


> No, the last few months before the ban of JTMS and Stoneforge, Caw Blade WAS the only kid (at least non-special ed kid). 9 times out of 10 you either played Caw Blade or lost to Caw Blade. Sure, every now and then 1 deck might top 8 that wasn't Caw Blade, but nothing would last. Hell, the only reason Twin stuck around was because it got fused into TwinBlade. It was extremely different than the format we have now.



I get where you're coming from, but this is an exaggeration. Reading over the 1st place finishers at all major Magic tournaments between the time Mirrodin Besieged came out and the time Jace and Stoneforge Mystic were banned (the ban came into effect July 1, 2011), Caw-blade won about half the time. While that's obviously a significant portion of the metagame, it's not "play Caw Blade or lose to it," as you describe it. And while TwinBlade does well in that time, U/R Twin has plenty of 1st place finishes to its name as well. As does B/R Vampires, as does U/B Control, as does Valakut.

For myself, during that time I actually played Naya Allies, and my matchup with Cawblade was actually quite favorable for me.


----------



## Slayer89

Okay, well, it's all history. Fact is Delver is far from Caw Blade as it is; something we can all be happy about. I loved Caw Blade (never actually owned a full list, just enjoyed how it worked), but total a level of dominance that high hurts things too much. Pre-ban I played UB Control and post ban I either played Pyromancer Ascension or RB Vampires

Anywho, I think Magic's a pretty cool guy. He cast spells and doesn't afraid of anything.


----------



## caskettheclown

Store by where I work is closing down and they sell MTG cards, so I got a helluva deal on a booster pack.

Got some decent stuff and from what i'm reading "Rootbound Crag" was worth more than what I paid for the booster pack haha.


Who all is going to the prerelease?


----------



## Slayer89

I'm hoping our shop does another midnight prerelease so I can hit that up.


----------



## Xaios

Slayer89 said:


> Okay, well, it's all history. Fact is Delver is far from Caw Blade as it is; something we can all be happy about. I loved Caw Blade (never actually owned a full list, just enjoyed how it worked), but total a level of dominance that high hurts things too much. Pre-ban I played UB Control and post ban I either played Pyromancer Ascension or RB Vampires
> 
> Anywho, I think Magic's a pretty cool guy. He cast spells and doesn't afraid of anything.



Agreed. When I said W/U Delver is becoming like Cawblade, I didn't really mean it was as powerful as Cawblade. What I meant is that it's basically the acid test: if your deck can't beat it, high level tournaments are basically a no-go. Also, it's starting to become inbred in the same way as Cawblade was when there were variants like Darkblade and Esper Blade who's primary goal was simply to beat stock Caw Blade.

I guess a better comparison for W/U Delver would be Jund. It's more of an aggro deck anyway with a control element, where as Cawblade was Control/Tempo.



Slayer89 said:


> I'm hoping our shop does another midnight prerelease so I can hit that up.



Our shop does 4 prerelease tournaments for each new set.


I attend every single one of them. 


I have a life. Really!














No I don't.


----------



## ittoa666

/\


----------



## Xaios

I can't believe I forgot to mention this, but I *owned the shit* out of Dark Ascension's prerelease. I couldn't attend all 4 pre-release tournaments that weekend, so I only went to three (I attended 2 regular sealed tournaments and 1 Two-Headed Giant sealed, while I missed a draft).

I won every tournament I attended. Like a fucking boss. My mojo was ON that weekend in a way that it's never been on before. I literally couldn't be beat. I managed to put together solid decks with the cards that I opened. And then I took advantage of 2 years with of karmic justice to pull out all those wins. I'm typically the guy that gets land screwed/flooded, but on that weekend, my draws were just dynamite each time.


----------



## Slayer89

I did less than stellar at the DA prerelease. I think I cracked 4 playables of each color and ended up breaking even in my wins/losses. Sealed is just not my thing, but still fun. Definitely a place I need to improve in; especially with GP San Jose coming up later this year. I can't believe there's going to be a Team GP less than 2 hours from me. I'm pretty psyched.


----------



## caskettheclown

EDIT- Dumb question that I found an answer too... massive brain fart, that's all i'll say

also how do you delete a post?


----------



## Xaios

Alas, you can't.


----------



## caskettheclown

Hover your curser over the "edit" button and it'll say Delete/Edit Message so at one point in time we could, or they where planning on incorporating it into the site.


----------



## ittoa666

I'll just leave this here.







Oh the shenanigans.


----------



## caskettheclown

^seems like infinite potential! The more I think about it the more I want it!


----------



## Xaios

Too expensive to see tournament play, but it's definitely a fun effect. The best part is that you don't have to enchant a creature you control. You can throw it on your enemy's Primeval Titan and turn all your own non-token creatures into Primeval Titans as well. Or, in EDH, you can enchant your opponent's General and kill it via the Legend Rule. Looks like a great casual card.


----------



## ittoa666

I think some of the big name guys could build decks around the potential.


----------



## Xaios

ittoa666 said:


> I think some of the big name guys could build decks around the potential.



To be honest, I doubt it, for a few reasons. It's a high costed blue enchantment, which is something that's never seen play, no matter how powerful. It has to enchant a creature, which means you're going to have to enchant something that's likely not blue, because otherwise you won't be getting tremendously good value, because blue doesn't exactly have the best value creatures in the game. About the only blue creatures I can see getting it are Consecrated Sphinx and Frost Titan. Both are cards that draw a lot of hate, and there's a lot of targeted removal floating around the metagame as of late.

The only other solution is enchanting a creature that's either Indestructible or Hexproof. Unfortunately, there are no viable Hexproof creatures available right now to cast it on. Putting it on Thrun or Geist of Saint Traft will kill both them and every other creature you control, as it will trigger the Legendary rule and all copies will be sacced as a state-based effect. Dungrove Elder relies on having lots of forest and any other colors in your deck beyond a splash to get access to Kessig Wolf Run limits its effectiveness. Not to mention, they can get chump blocked all day long by spirit tokens from Lingering Souls. And finally, Invisible Stalker is just too damn small to want to copy in the first place.

That leaves indestructibility, with which there are really only 2 options: Predator Ooze and Blightsteel Colossus. Predator Ooze suffers from the same problem as Invisible Stalker in that it's quite small when it comes into play. Meanwhile, if you've already landed one Blightsteel Colossus, you really don't need a second.

Having said that, the best creature you could probably throw this on is Primeval Titan. Unfortunately, Green/Blue is quite a weak color combination at the moment, so you'd be hindering yourself by running it.

Like I said, it's a good casual card, and has a fun effect, but high cost enchantments have never been good enough to see real tournament play.

I'd love to be proven wrong though.


----------



## ittoa666




----------



## caskettheclown

Its an hour long though , i'd rather just skip to some good parts haha

Also I got to work during the pre release next saturday night , any idea if I could just go in and buy a couple boosters and then go to work or what?


----------



## Xaios

You wouldn't be able to buy boosters (at least, the store shouldn't be selling them) until the Friday following the pre-release, as that's the actual release date.


----------



## caskettheclown

Xaios said:


> You wouldn't be able to buy boosters (at least, the store shouldn't be selling them) until the Friday following the pre-release, as that's the actual release date.



Ahhh ok, well i'm new to this kind of thing so yea


----------



## Slayer89

Went to a Grand Prix Trial today with the following list.

4 Birds of Paradise
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Huntmaster of the Fells
2 Hellrider
2 Phyrexian Metamorph

2 Sword of Feast and Famine
2 Sword of War and Peace
1 Batterskull
4 Galvanic Blast
3 Brimstone Volley
4 Green Sun&#8217;s Zenith

4 Copperline Gorge
4 Rootbound Crag
2 Kessig Wolf Run
9 Forest
5 Mountain

2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Manabarbs
2 Dismember
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Traitorous Blood
2 Corrosive Gale
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Naturalize
1 Wrack with Madness

Ended up going undefeated and taking first. That was a great feeling, haha. Now to just figure out how to make it to Minneapolis for the GP ...


----------



## ittoa666

That's a hot decklist. I would love to play something similar, but I just can't afford it.


----------



## Slayer89

Yeah, things can get pricey. To get these all so recently I basically took my whole binder of unused rares that had been building up for a couple years and traded it in to StarCityGames. While most rares are worth maybe 50 cents each, enough of them add up after a while, haha.

The super crazy prices really start showing up with the older formats ... *looking at you a/b/u/r duals*


----------



## ittoa666

That's a good idea to get a hold of new rares. Gonna have to do that.

Yeah, I have seen the old duals. 300 for underground sea? I'm alright.


----------



## Slayer89

Yeah. I had just finished playing in an SCG Open event and didn't do well. I figured if I wanted to do better I needed an upgrade and unsleeved every rare from decks and binders that weren't being used and brought them over to the vendor table. Now looking at my binders is a bit depressing, haha, but I love looking at my deck.

A bit later that day I bought a pack of Dark Ascension and pulled a foil Huntmaster of the Fells. It was a happy moment, haha.


----------



## ittoa666

You lucky bastard. I have yet to get lucky enough to pull a holo mythic. Maybe my Avacyn Restored box will yield some good results.


----------



## Xaios

ittoa666 said:


> You lucky bastard. I have yet to get lucky enough to pull a holo mythic. Maybe my Avacyn Restored box will yield some good results.



Heh, I once bought half a box of Zendikar and half a box of Worldwake, as my local store as willing to sell it to me for the same price as one box of either.

I pulled 2 Jace, The Mind Sculptors and a foil Lotus Cobra. It was a good day.


----------



## ShadowFactoryX

holy balls, too much talk about standard
cbf to really look into it that far

but some of my most fond memories amongst playing mtg:

my buddy had a treasure chest full of commons,
every wednesday, common draft

total lulz and fun times prevailed

man do i miss that


----------



## Andromalia

> It's a high costed blue enchantment, which is something that's never seen play, no matter how powerful.



Uh ?


----------



## WhiteWalls

Mind over matter did see play right after it was released, mainly in stroke of genius/prosperity/academy decks, also it's a two-card combo with Temple Bell in legacy which has seen a bit of play some time ago


----------



## Xaios

Mind Over Matter is, of course, the exception that proves the rule, because it's a powerful combo piece. Obviously it was good enough to be banned. The difference between it and Infinite Reflection though is that Mid Over Matter basically enables wins out of nowhere, whereas Infinite Reflections is a win-more card. By the time you're in a good enough position to cast it, you shouldn't NEED to. It doesn't win the game on the spot like Splinter Twin does when cast on Deceiver Exarch, and it doesn't even come down until 2 turns later. It also relies on other pieces that are more fragile.

It's this combination of things that kill it: 1) high mana cost, 2) reliance on creatures in a meta with lots of removal, 3) limited choice of viable targets, 4) board state should already be in your favor by the time you're ready to drop it.


----------



## WhiteWalls

I totally misread the post and I thought there was some speculation over a Mind over Matter's future reprint, I didn't realize the topic was Infinite Reflection, I'm an idiot 

And yeah there's no way Infinite Reflection will ever see tournament play, however cute it is.


----------



## ittoa666

Sometime's you just need to Timmy out and play cards like infinite reflection. The fun loving child in me loves it.

Also, just saw some news about Nicol Bolas being in M13. I'm down with that.


----------



## ShadowFactoryX

Just found out about return to ravnica
kinda stoked about that as it was the series i loved the most before quitting

but no Richard on the design team :/


----------



## Daemoniac

^ That was how I felt about Scars of Mirrodin - Phyrexia and Mirrodin were my favorites, so to see some twisted-ass creatures with a heavy artifact focus was like heaven


----------



## caskettheclown

How does everyone like the new intro packs for Avacyn Restored? Just came out today.

Its not showing the cards from Avacyn restored when I click on them so I can't say much...


----------



## Xaios

I have to admit, after reading the complete spoilers, I'm actually kind of disappointed in the new set. Aside from a few obvious power cards (Cavern of Souls, the Angelpuff Girls, Griselbrand, etcetera), there's a LOT of limited-only jank. A few fun cards among the bunch, but fewer constructed playables than I would like. I might end up just buying singles instead of boxes this time around.


----------



## Xaios

Bahaha, something hilarious:

Alright, so one of the cards in the new set, "Triumph of Ferocity," (which is going straight into my Omnath EDH deck) features this art:






Apparently a bunch of people are complaining that, viewed from a vacuum, this card invokes all kinds of imagery of a male dominating a woman, and is sexist as a result. Nevermind the fact that Liliana clearly hasn't resigned herself to defeat in the artwork, no has a single hair on her head been mussed of thread of clothing been torn. Oh no, it's clearly depicting rape. 

And yes, just so we're clear, people are actually debating this. One of the moderators on the MTGSalvation forums has stated quite succinctly that this artwork sickens him.

However, I found a brilliant piece of satire on a site called The Magic Lampoon: Before We Begin Our Climactic Battle To The Death, I Respectfully Request Permission To Touch You : The Magic Lampoon



The Magic Lampoon said:


> I&#8217;ve finally caught up with you, Liliana.
> 
> You cursed me with the Chain Veil.
> 
> And I swear, you will revoke it; or you will fall.
> 
> But before we being our climactic duel to the death, I respectfully request permission to touch you.
> 
> Rest assured, I&#8217;m about to destroy you.
> 
> However, I recognize that you are an empowered and independent woman who deserves to be treated as an equal, regardless of gender stereotypes.
> 
> I have tracked my foes across countless planes; I have slain the living, and here on Innistrad, I have destroyed the dead.
> 
> But I have also taken three credit hours of sensitivity classes.
> 
> So, as one equal being to another, independent of the context of gender roles, I am requesting your consent in the event that we might make physical contact during our battle.
> 
> It&#8217;s important that our duel to the destruction of one or the other of us take place without our being oppressed by social constructs.
> 
> I learned this from a women&#8217;s studies course I audited in Ravnica.
> 
> I have no doubt that even now, you&#8217;re calculating the best way to eliminate me with one of any number of your darkest magics.
> 
> And I&#8217;m sure you realize that I, as I speak, am sizing you up as my opponent, and determining how you might try to make your escape, or what sorcery you might use to block my path.
> 
> But it&#8217;s crucial that our battle take place in an atmosphere of mutual respect and trust.
> 
> With that understanding, I now proclaim that you are not a sex object; you are a fully realized being who should not be judged according to the gender you have chosen to call yourself.
> 
> Nor should I attempt to assert patriarchy during our conflict.
> 
> So before we begin, I&#8217;d like your consent in the event that some touching might take place.
> 
> I&#8217;m ready to listen and dialogue with you without dismissing your opinion, which I value because of the diversity of your perspective.
> 
> I&#8217;ll be listening intently while you speak.





What really gets me is that people are up in arms about the fact that it appears like Garruk is about to rape Liliana. These same people, however, seem to have no qualms with the fact that he appears to be about to kill her.


----------



## ittoa666

You already know that if someone can find any minute detail to complain about, they will, especially the internet community. I for one find that this certain piece of art conveys exactly what's going on in the story. Garruk is cursed and he's pissed, and he has his bladed hand raised to destroy that which cursed him. People need to get their collective head's out of their self righteous asses and see things for what they really are. Fools.

Also, the art in this set is fucking cool.


----------



## ittoa666

Bump for the prerelease. Didn't get anything too insane, built a white black human and zombie deck, went 1-2, and got some ok stuff. Fortunately, I bought a pack of Scars and pulled a holo darkslick shore. I'm totally happy.

Can't wait for thursday night to get my box and fat pack.


----------



## ittoa666

Second Scars pack in 2 days got me another darkslick. Whats up with these packs?


----------



## caskettheclown

When do event deks usually come out for then new sets? 

Also played with my friend all night last night. Im getting a few people into playing so im happy. Had a lot of fun last night!


----------



## Saber_777

Anyone here used the Ravaging Swarm start? used to have a bunch of decks, but they were all scattered. The whole damage counter idea sounds cool/bitchy... But looking at it the deck it looks strong without poisen counters. Right? Main question is... how well does it play? Can you win without poisen counters?


----------



## Xaios

All_Shall_Rot said:


> Anyone here used the Ravaging Swarm start? used to have a bunch of decks, but they were all scattered. The whole damage counter idea sounds cool/bitchy... But looking at it the deck it looks strong without poisen counters. Right? Main question is... how well does it play? Can you win without poisen counters?



The strength of infect depends on how cutthroat your metagame is. If you play casually, it can be quite strong. However, it's not viable in competitive play, as it lost some fairly essential cards when Zendikar rotated out of Standard.

The best way, however, to run an infect deck is fast and lean. To that effect, the best creatures to go with are Glistener Elf, Blighted Agent, Cystbearer, Rot Wolf, Ichorclaw Myr, Necropede, Plague Myr and Viridian Corrupter.

One of the problems with Infect is how it divides it up between the colors. Green and Blue have great early game creatures (see the creatures above), while Black's creatures are stronger in the late game (Phyrexian Crusader, Hand of the Praetors, Phyrexian Vatmother, Skithiryx). The problem is you can't really combine the two as you're stretching your mana base quite thin, resulting in a less efficient deck. This means you either start strong but run out of gas early, or you finish well but struggle early on. Most people have found success with using the faster starts afforded by Green/Blue, combined with basic pump spells.

If you're going to be playing in a playgroup that doesn't care about whether or not your cards are Standard-legal, one disgusting card for any infect deck running green is Invigorate.


----------



## Saber_777

Xaios said:


> The strength of infect depends on how cutthroat your metagame is. If you play casually, it can be quite strong. However, it's not viable in competitive play, as it lost some fairly essential cards when Zendikar rotated out of Standard.
> 
> The best way, however, to run an infect deck is fast and lean. To that effect, the best creatures to go with are Glistener Elf, Blighted Agent, Cystbearer, Rot Wolf, Ichorclaw Myr, Necropede, Plague Myr and Viridian Corrupter.
> 
> One of the problems with Infect is how it divides it up between the colors. Green and Blue have great early game creatures (see the creatures above), while Black's creatures are stronger in the late game (Phyrexian Crusader, Hand of the Praetors, Phyrexian Vatmother, Skithiryx). The problem is you can't really combine the two as you're stretching your mana base quite thin, resulting in a less efficient deck. This means you either start strong but run out of gas early, or you finish well but struggle early on. Most people have found success with using the faster starts afforded by Green/Blue, combined with basic pump spells.
> 
> If you're going to be playing in a playgroup that doesn't care about whether or not your cards are Standard-legal, one disgusting card for any infect deck running green is Invigorate.


 
Yeah, not legality issues with my current play. I was considering just keeping it green/blue. Along with using Trample cards.


----------



## ittoa666

Xaios said:


> The strength of infect depends on how cutthroat your metagame is. If you play casually, it can be quite strong. However, it's not viable in competitive play, as it lost some fairly essential cards when Zendikar rotated out of Standard.
> 
> The best way, however, to run an infect deck is fast and lean. To that effect, the best creatures to go with are Glistener Elf, Blighted Agent, Cystbearer, Rot Wolf, Ichorclaw Myr, Necropede, Plague Myr and Viridian Corrupter.
> 
> One of the problems with Infect is how it divides it up between the colors. Green and Blue have great early game creatures (see the creatures above), while Black's creatures are stronger in the late game (Phyrexian Crusader, Hand of the Praetors, Phyrexian Vatmother, Skithiryx). The problem is you can't really combine the two as you're stretching your mana base quite thin, resulting in a less efficient deck. This means you either start strong but run out of gas early, or you finish well but struggle early on. Most people have found success with using the faster starts afforded by Green/Blue, combined with basic pump spells.
> 
> If you're going to be playing in a playgroup that doesn't care about whether or not your cards are Standard-legal, one disgusting card for any infect deck running green is Invigorate.



To add to all that, don't forget that you can always hit for one and then, say, use throne of geth to proliferate them to death. I have a friend who destroyed me like that the other day. Another good way is to use Tezzeret to pump an Inkmoth to 5/5 and smack em.

I really can't wait til infect is gone though.


----------



## caskettheclown

Bought the white green intro pack and a booster. So far its fun cause the strategy is so different than im used to. Nothing wonderful in the boosters except infinite reflections . I instantly thought of you guys when i got it.


----------



## ittoa666

caskettheclown said:


> Bought the white green intro pack and a booster. So far its fun cause the strategy is so different than im used to. Nothing wonderful in the boosters except infinite reflections . I instantly thought of you guys when i got it.



 I've already put infinite in my green blue fun/test deck. It's fun when it hits.

Also, what deck is the intro one you bought? What's the point of it?


----------



## caskettheclown

ittoa666 said:


> I've already put infinite in my green blue fun/test deck. It's fun when it hits.
> 
> Also, what deck is the intro one you bought? What's the point of it?



Its the white green one. Supposed to stock up on mana as quick as you can while healing so you can bring out the angels which have vigiliance or help you cgain life. First time playing it i ended up with 40 life at the end of the game.

Its a fun little deck but not what im mostly into. Still gonna play it a good bit though. My black blue control undying deck is what im loving right now.

Anyone recommend some cards to beef up my creatures with?


----------



## ittoa666

caskettheclown said:


> Anyone recommend some cards to beef up my creatures with?



For your UB deck? You need more mill sources like Jace and Jace's erasure. Also, you need token generators to hold off threats while you mill them.


----------



## caskettheclown

Ill keep that in mind.

I made a white blue deck and anhilated my friend with mind control and infinite reflections. I found a new favorite


----------



## ittoa666

Do you have token generators in the white blue deck? Get some honor of the pures and hit people with buff'd up spirits.


----------



## caskettheclown

I got a few things to beef them up with. No i dont really have any token generators yet but i need some.


----------



## Xaios

Retuned my W/G Humans deck. This is the new decklist:

Main Deck:

Creatures (30):
4x Avacyn's Pilgrim
4x Champion of the Parish
4x Mayor of Avabruck
3x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4x Champion of Lambholt
3x Mentor of the Meek
4x Mirran Crusader
4x Hero of Bladehold

Enchantments (4):
4x Oblivion Ring 

Sorceries (4):
4x Gather the Townsfolk

Lands (22):
4x Cavern of Souls
4x Sunpetal Grove
4x Razorverge Thicket
3x Gavony of Township
2x Forest
5x Plains

Sideboard (15):
2x Riders of Gavony
2x Sigarda, Host of Herons
2x Celestial Purge
3x Ratchet Bomb
3x Dismember
3x Beast Within

Gotta admit, Champion of Lambholt is solid in this deck. She has great synergy with Gather the Townsfolk and Mayor of Avabruck. Plus, she's *devastating* with Hero of Bladehold.

I tried fitting Restoration Angel and Silverblade Paladin in the deck because they're great cards, but I just couldn't find a way. Silverblade Paladin will probably replace Mirran Crusader once it rotates out, but right now I think the protection from two very relevant colors is worth more.

Cavern of Souls is also both legit as a tribal mana fixer and as resistance to counterspells.


----------



## caskettheclown

Thats a pretty damn good deck i think



EDIT for the sake of not posting again. - Me and my girlfriend went to the local shop and the owner found out she was learning to play. So he let her borrow his 250$ reanimator deck. He showed her how to use it and everything. So long story short my anus was not prepared enough for that monstrous ass beating 


Also bought the Planar Chaos Rituals of Rebirth theme deck for ten dollars, waiting on it to ship. Figured i'd like a decent pre built deck I like that doesn't need much modifying while I spend time working on a custom deck. Bought it before my girlfriend destroyed me with the owners uber deck.


----------



## Xaios

So, three cards from the new set are definitely gonna find their way into my Animar EDH deck:

- Soul of the Harvest: This guy is for the most part a second Primordial Sage, except he has awesome synergy with the next card...
- Deadeye Navigator: This card is ridiculous in several EDH decks (most notably Merieke Ri Berit), including this one. The ability to bounce a guy and re-trigger "enters the battlefield" for such a small price is invaluable, especially when you do it with a Primeval Titan or Avenger of Zendikar. It work doubly well if you have a Cloudstone Curio out as well. Lastly, it has excellent synergy with this guy...
- Zealous Conscripts: This card has definitely proven to be the sleeper hit of the set. When it was first spoiled, it was relegated to junk rare status as people thought it was just another Act of Treason effect badly stapled onto a creature like Conquering Manticore was. However, the fact that it can steal any permanent and not just creature, as well as it's Haste ability and low mana cost actually make it quite efficient. This guy works exceedingly well with the Cloudstone Curio shenanigans this deck has going on.

Also, I plan to stick a Soul of the Harvest and a Triumph of Ferocity in my Omnath deck, as Omnath is almost guaranteed to be the biggest creature on the board during my upkeep.

The only hard part is deciding what gets cut.


----------



## ittoa666

I love the Navigator Conscripts combo. I bet we're going to see that A LOT.

Btw, I'm working on my RG Werewolf aggro listing. I'll post it soon.


----------



## caskettheclown

Bought a bunch of reanimator themed cards today, the must haves basically. I'll post the deck list in a few days when I actually finish the deck and you guys can help me fine tune it a bit. I wish I could help you guys like that but i'm not that experienced yet and still learning a lot of the combo's and all that.

Got about 15 cards for half price they usually go for , cause i've gotten 3 people into Magic and turned them into customers for the shop.  That and the owner has a sweet spot for reanimation.


----------



## ittoa666

:EDIT:


----------



## ittoa666

Land: 

Forest x9
Mountain x8
Rootbound Crag (2012 Core Set) x4
Copperline Gorge (Scars of Mirrodin) x1

Creatures: 

Immerwolf (Dark Ascension) x4
Reckless Waif (Innistrad) x4
Young Wolf (Dark Ascension) x4
Mayor of Avabruck (Innistrad) x3
Pyreheart Wolf (Dark Ascension) x3
Kruin Outlaw (Innistrad) x3
Wolfir Silverheart (Avacyn Restored) x2

Instants: 

Incinerate (2012 Core Set) x4
Brimstone Volley (Innistrad) x4

Sorceries:

Green Sun's Zenith x2

Equipment:

Sword of Body and Mind x2

Planeswalkers:

Garruk Relentless (Innistrad) x1
Garruk Wildspeaker (2010 Core Set) x1
Tibalt, the Fiend-Blooded (Avacyn Restored) x1

Hopefully I'll be getting 2 huntmasters and 2 more garruk relentless soon.


----------



## Xaios

The value of my judge foil Gaea's Cradle has jumped to $225.


----------



## ittoa666

/\ Dayum.


----------



## Slayer89

Here's my latest brew I've been working on. A grixis colored Solar Flare-esque list.

4 Faithless Looting
3 Tragic Slip
4 Desperate Ravings
3 Mana Leak
2 Whipflare
4 Forbidden Alchemy
2 Dissipate
1 Slagstorm
1 Curse of Death's Hold
3 Flayer of the Hatebound
2 Myr Battlesphere
1 Griselbrand
1 Tibalt the Fiend Blooded
1 Tribute to Hunger
3 Unburial Rites

xX Lands (Manabase is a work in progress)

The Battlespheres will be more Griselbrands soon. Other than that the list does have a bit more fine tuning coming.


----------



## caskettheclown

I want to put 

2 buried alive
2 dark ritual
2 animate dead
1 last rites
1 diabolical servant

into the Planar chaos rituals of rebirth deck I just got.







Would that be good? Or would it be too much and not enough discarding or mana ramping? What should I swap them out for?

I'm going for more reanimation than anything but would like to keep the other ongoing themes in it a good bit as well if possible.


ITOA666- I've seen so many people with wolf decks, I keep hearing they are very good nowadays. Lemme know how yours plays out and if its a lot of fun or not. If they are fun, hell it might be on my next "Deck to build" list.


----------



## Nile

My Standard U/R Vexing Delver deck is doing quite well.

4 Delver of Secrets
4 Vexing Devil
3 Stormblood Berserker
2 Phantasmal Image
2 Dungeon Geists
2 Hellrider
2 Snapcaster Mage

4 Vapor Snag
4 Shock
4 Ponder
2 Gut Shot
2 Noxious Revival
2 Galvanic Blast
1 Slagstorm
2 Think Twice

2 Sphere of the Suns

7 Island
7 Mountain
4 Sulfur Falls


----------



## ittoa666

caskettheclown said:


> ITOA666- I've seen so many people with wolf decks, I keep hearing they are very good nowadays. Lemme know how yours plays out and if its a lot of fun or not. If they are fun, hell it might be on my next "Deck to build" list.



It suits my play style quite well because I'm rather aggressive, and the removal is a must. I've been playing it for a few months and it works very well. You just get the one drop werewolves out and boost them with immerwolf so they get +1/+1 and they can't transform back. The swords give you wolf tokens and Garruk Relentless makes them, so half the deck is based on getting those. Basically, you want to pump your wolves and slam them.


----------



## Saber_777

Got a fat pack and pulled 
1x Tibalt
1x Primal Surge
1x Sigarda, Host of Herons

Thought it was worth mentioning. I build a werewolf deck. WOO! Going to build an angel deck too!


----------



## Xaios

A friend of mine, who is a much better player than me, built a new deck for FNM, and let me tell you, this thing is off the chain.

It's White/Black/Red. It's got all kinds of crazy stuff. Tibalts, Unburial Rites, Lingering Souls, Faithless Looting, Day of Judgments, *4* Griselbrands, 2 Avacyns. The deck is madness, but what's even crazier is that it's *REALLY* powerful. I traded the two Tibalts that I pulled from boxes for 2 Cavern of Souls from him, and I would make the trade again in a heartbeat, but Tibalt rocks in that deck. And man, let me tell you, Griselbrand is a monster. The Yawgmoth's Bargain on a stick is SUPER good.

Also, couple changes to my Omnath deck recently:

- Forest
- Nature's Will
- Garruk's Packleader

+ Reliquary Tower
+ Soul of the Harvest
+ Regal Force


----------



## Slayer89

Griselbrand is a beast. Anxiously awaiting the Japanese copy my wife ordered for me...


----------



## Daemoniac

^ Yeah I ordered a bunch of Demon's from various sets trying to give my Zombie's some flying protection from the missus' white/blue angel/sphinx deck


----------



## xXxPriestessxXx

I got so into Standard a couple months ago (I <3 Delver of Secrets), but my main thing is EDH. JHoira FTW! I have to spend every Saturday and Sunday at a gaming store so there is always someone willing to play.


----------



## Xaios

^ Holy smokes, where have you been??

Welcome back, in any case. 

Built a basic new Gisela EDH deck that is strong but fair. The only tutors in the deck are for equipment (Stoneforge Mystic, Stonehewer Giant, Godo, Bandit Warlord), as opposed to the ludicrous number of linearity-imposing tutors I have in my other decks. I've come to accept that, honestly, while tutors are extremely powerful, they also just plain suck a lot of the fun out of the game. I loaded the deck with tons of cards that synergize with Gisela, but no way to constantly search for silver bullets.

For example, Gisela, Blade of Goldnight + Malignus, or better yet, Heartless Hidetsugu is just plain bonkers.


----------



## xXxPriestessxXx

Thanks for the welcome back  

I haven't played anyone who has Gisela yet. I've already faced a couple Griselbrand decks. (I can't understand why anyone would want to play a mono colored deck in EDH.) It has gotten to the point at the store, where no one will play me if I play Jhoira. I admit it is somewhat of a mean deck, but there are a lot of EDH decks like that. :sigh: Oh well.

Anyway on the tutors thing, I agree with you. My deck before Jhoira was Mayael of the Anima. All I did was stick the general, equip Swift Foot Boots, tutor up Seedborn Muse, and start using her ability on every players turn. Add Crucible of Worlds and Life from the Loam to that, and it gets old really fast.


----------



## Xaios

xXxPriestessxXx said:


> Thanks for the welcome back
> 
> I haven't played anyone who has Gisela yet. I've already faced a couple Griselbrand decks. (*I can't understand why anyone would want to play a mono colored deck in EDH.*) It has gotten to the point at the store, where no one will play me if I play Jhoira. I admit it is somewhat of a mean deck, but there are a lot of EDH decks like that. :sigh: Oh well.



Trust me when I say this, a well tuned mono-coloured deck will want to make people commit suicide. I tend to also prefer multi-colored deck, but my strongest deck is Omnath, with which I have beaten many, *many* faces in. These days it gets the same reception as your Jhoira deck.

I tend to prefer multi-colored decks as well. Aside from Omnath, the other decks I have put together are Gisela, Karador, Animar and Sharuum. If you hate people, Sharuum is the deck to play.

Aside from Omnath, some other exceptional mono-colored generals are Azusa, Azami, Arcum Daggson, Xiahou Dun, Teferi, Lin Sivvi, Rune-Tail, Kiki-Jiki, Balthor the Defiled...



xXxPriestessxXx said:


> Anyway on the tutors thing, I agree with you. My deck before Jhoira was Mayael of the Anima. All I did was stick the general, equip Swift Foot Boots, tutor up Seedborn Muse, and start using her ability on every players turn. Add Crucible of Worlds and Life from the Loam to that, and it gets old really fast.



That's exactly it. It makes strategies soooo linear. The best part of EDH is how *CRAZY* it can be. Otherwise there's really not much point.


----------



## xXxPriestessxXx

Grrrr to Sharuum. I hate that guy. :angry: There is a guy at our store that play's Azusa. It seems fun so maybe I will have to give it a whirl. Also I heard rumors among some judge friends of mine that Sensei's Divining Top might get banned in EDH. Got any thoughts on that?


----------



## Xaios

xXxPriestessxXx said:


> Grrrr to Sharuum. I hate that guy. :angry: There is a guy at our store that play's Azusa. It seems fun so maybe I will have to give it a whirl. Also I heard rumors among some judge friends of mine that Sensei's Divining Top might get banned in EDH. Got any thoughts on that?



Sensei's Divining Top will never get banned in EDH. It's card filtering. It's annoying in that it makes games take longer (which is actually one of the biggest reasons it's banned in other constructed formats), but that's it, and in that regard it's no worse than Mirri's Guile or Sylvan Library. The only remotely "broken" interraction it has is with Future Sight or Magus of the Future, and all that does is draw cards, and it costs mana to boot. Honestly, it's not even on the Rule Committee's radar. Sheldon Menery (the guy who created EDH) posts regularly on MTG Salvation as well as the forums on the format's official site (mtgcommander.net) and often gives indicators on cards that the RC is looking at. For example, currently within their own playgroup, they're testing the possibility of un-banning Kokusho, the Evening Star.

About the only card that RC is probably examining at the moment (and this is purely hypothetical) is Griselbrand. The reason is that he shares characteristics with 3 other cards on the ban list: Emrakul, Kokusho and Yawgmoth's Bargain. And while the RC has stated that similarity to other cards isn't one of the criteria which determines banning, if you examine the underlying reasons why those cards were banned in the first place (extremely high power level and the game tends to revolve around them when they drop), I would personally say he meets that.

On another note, I put together a decklist last night for a Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter EDH deck. Can't wait to assemble it and try it out.


----------



## Xaios

Well. Tried out my Gisela decklist and...


It sucked.

It's not her fault, I'm just not very good at designing aggro EDH decks.

I'm going to dismantle both it and Sharuum and build the Vish Kal deck I mentioned, and I think I'll also give Ruhan of the Fomori a try.


----------



## xXxPriestessxXx

Doran the seige Tower is fun. Especially with one those gorgeous full-art champs Dorans. Also I aquired an English Mana Drain today!! :happydance:


----------



## Xaios

Wow, nice! Do you also have a full art Doran? Because it's worth an insane amount (as is Mana Drain).


----------



## xXxPriestessxXx

I sold it in January at GP Austin. I got a foil Masques Bribery for Jhoira and still managed to put some money in my pocket. I know that Doran probably still climbs in price, but I was in "must have EDH deck foiled out mode".


----------



## Xaios

Yeah, I'm in the same mode for my Omnath deck, which shall be my pimp deck. I've got some pretty sweet foils in that deck as it is:

- Omnath (obviously )
- Gaea's Cradle judge foil
- Lotus Cobra
- Vorinclex
- Praetor's Council
- Caged Sun
- Eldrazi Monument
- Garruk Wilspeaker
- Avenger of Zendikar
- Sol Ring
- Sensei's Divining Top
- Reliquary Tower
- All the basic lands in the deck

I've got about half the deck foiled, all told. If I were to purchase the foils for all the other cards in the deck, I'd have to spend about $900 based on current market values. Thankfully, I have some decent trading fodder, which should help mitigate the loss.

Tested out my new Vish Kal build last night, I like it. Only bummer is that I couldn't find a couple cards that I had in my decklist, even though I know I have them (Emeria Angel and Felidar Sovereign), so I threw in Twilight Drover and Eternal Dragon instead. Twilight Drover actually might be better than Emeria Angel anyhow, as the deck does have a minor token theme. Need to pick up an Adarkar Valkyrie in any case.

EDIT: Oh man, I just thought of an awesome addition to the deck. Because the activation cost of Vish Kal's ability requires you to "remove all counters" from him, he doesn't actually have to have any counters on him. You can remove "all counters" from him and give target creature -0/-0. The important part though, is that you can activate the ability and target other things. This gives it absolutely hilarious synergy with Horobi, Death's Wail, which can turn his ability into a free Plague Wind! Even double checked the card rulings, it's legit!


----------



## Saber_777

I need some help trimming fat and adding in cards. My deck has 69 did have near 80. But here is what is in it right now. 

1x sheltering Word
1x Geist trappers
1x wolfir avenger
1x overrun
1x craterhood behemoth (love it. Getting more)
1x gloomwidow
1x rain of thorns
1x acidic slime
1x runeclaw bear
2x Llanower elves
2x druids familiar
2x joint assault
2x nightshade peddler
2x wolfir silverheart
2x natural end
3x pathbreaker wurm
2x flowering lumberknot
3x trusted forcemage
3x vorstclaw
3x soul of the harvest
Green only ^

Here's blue. 
2x wingcrafter
2x deadeye navigator
2x tandem lookout
1x ice cage
1x spirit away
1x angelic armaments

12x islands
13x forest


All of the cards I have I have more except craterhoof. And I have a promal surge hat needs to be in there along with 4 abundant growths but I'm unsure how to use abundant growth properly. I've been told one thing and another

Anything helps guys.


----------



## Saber_777

I have some latch seekers
Yew spirits
Wildwoodgeists
Elguad shieldmates
Eaten by spiders
Wild defiance
Borferland ranger
Slayers strong hold plus a desolate light house
Are some cards I have out to the side to maybe work in? I don't know guys. Maybe vut out all of the blue???


----------



## Xaios

Looking at what you've put together there, the most obvious problem is the mana curve.

Here's a tip: take all the cards you plan to use and organize them by converted mana cost. If you were to graph out the converted mana costs of your cards, ideally your curve would be bell shaped. Currently you've got a lot of cards with CMC 3 and 6, but not a lot in between.

This is your current card count, based on converted mana cost:

CMC 1 - 7
CMC 2 - 5
CMC 3 - 11
CMC 4 - 4
CMC 5 - 5
CMC 6 - 12
CMC 7 - 1
CMC 8 - 1

If you're running lots of ramp, you'll want the bulk of your CMC to be focused around cards that cost 3-6 mana with ramp cards such as mana dorks or land tutors in your lower CMC card slots. Midrange decks should focus on 2-4 mana cards, while aggro decks focus on 1-3 drops. Control decks tend to have a flatter mana curve, with an emphasis on cheap removal and efficient creatures, with expensive finishers towards the end.

The principal of optimizing your mana curve is one of the most important and integral parts of deckbuilding. It's a skill that will always help you, no matter what format of Magic you're playing.


----------



## Saber_777

Xaios said:


> Looking at what you've put together there, the most obvious problem is the mana curve.
> 
> Here's a tip: take all the cards you plan to use and organize them by converted mana cost. If you were to graph out the converted mana costs of your cards, ideally your curve would be bell shaped. Currently you've got a lot of cards with CMC 3 and 6, but not a lot in between.
> 
> This is your current card count, based on converted mana cost:
> 
> CMC 1 - 7
> CMC 2 - 5
> CMC 3 - 11
> CMC 4 - 4
> CMC 5 - 5
> CMC 6 - 12
> CMC 7 - 1
> CMC 8 - 1
> 
> If you're running lots of ramp, you'll want the bulk of your CMC to be focused around cards that cost 4-6 mana. Otherwise focus it around 2-4 mana cards.


 

Abundant Growth count? 
So grab some elves?
Did have a CMC at 10... But it was primal surge.

So what can you tell that need cuts right off the top?


----------



## Nile

All_Shall_Rot said:


> Abundant Growth count?
> So grab some elves?
> Did have a CMC at 10... But it was primal surge.
> 
> So what can you tell that need cuts right off the top?



If you don't care about playing Standard, get some Overgrown Battlements and Wall of Roots with some Llanowar Elves and maybe some added Arbor Elves for creature mana, and some Nature's Lore and any other 2/3 cmc land ramp card for the land mana ramp. That's generally what I use in my mono green.


----------



## Saber_777

Nile said:


> If you don't care about playing Standard, get some Overgrown Battlements and Wall of Roots with some Llanowar Elves and maybe some added Arbor Elves for creature mana, and some Nature's Lore and any other 2/3 cmc land ramp card for the land mana ramp. That's generally what I use in my mono green.


 

I want to play standard. I was honestly thinking of cutting out on all blue. Grabbing a couple of Dungove Elders and some more reach cards and walls(with low mana cost) Thats why I like most of my blue cards. 'soul bond causing flying' Any good standard green/colorless fliers?


----------



## Nile

All_Shall_Rot said:


> I want to play standard. I was honestly thinking of cutting out on all blue. Grabbing a couple of Dungove Elders and some more reach cards and walls(with low mana cost) Thats why I like most of my blue cards. 'soul bond causing flying' Any good standard green/colorless fliers?



Not really. And with all the Lingering Souls and Angels about, giving something flying wont help too much for blocking or attacking, so it would be better to keep dropping threats they need to block. You could run Dungrove Elders, Wolfbrier Elemental, Vorapede, generally anything fat and with some mana/land ramp included in the deck.

You could even get going with Somberwald Sage if you go creature heavy and the rest of your stuff either be Green Sun's Zenith or Beast Within and Cultivate/Rampant Growth for the Dungrove's. Primeval Titan also pairs well with Dungrove. Asceticism would probably help too. 

This is just for if your using mono green. Otherwise, avoid everything but the Cultivate's, Rampant Growth's, Green Sun's, maybe Wolfbrier's, and Primeval Titan's.


Also if you come up against many flying creatures that are a problem sideboard Corrosive Gales.


----------



## Saber_777

Nile said:


> Not really. And with all the Lingering Souls and Angels about, giving something flying wont help too much for blocking or attacking, so it would be better to keep dropping threats they need to block. You could run Dungrove Elders, Wolfbrier Elemental, Vorapede, generally anything fat and with some mana/land ramp included in the deck.
> 
> You could even get going with Somberwald Sage if you go creature heavy and the rest of your stuff either be Green Sun's Zenith or Beast Within and Cultivate/Rampant Growth for the Dungrove's. Primeval Titan also pairs well with Dungrove. Asceticism would probably help too.
> 
> This is just for if your using mono green. Otherwise, avoid everything but the Cultivate's, Rampant Growth's, Green Sun's, maybe Wolfbrier's, and Primeval Titan's.
> 
> 
> Also if you come up against many flying creatures that are a problem sideboard Corrosive Gales.


 
I was looking into getting some Dungroves, but I am going to hold off for now. Vorapede sounds good though. I do love Dungrove but I use mana from creatures too. I have it all green right now. I will post what it has soon, but its pretty built. Wanting to pick up a Green Suns Zenith first off though.


----------



## xXxPriestessxXx

Oh how I wish I had my Judge Foil Gaea's Cradle back.  Also, I remember when Eldrazi Monuments were really expensive. I have been really lucky in getting the expensive cards I have. People come in to sell stuff all the time and they usual want what they can sell it to SCG for. 

Also is that a judge Sol Ring or a FTV one? And what foil lands are you running in it? 







Xaios said:


> Yeah, I'm in the same mode for my Omnath deck, which shall be my pimp deck. I've got some pretty sweet foils in that deck as it is:
> 
> - Omnath (obviously )
> - Gaea's Cradle judge foil
> - Lotus Cobra
> - Vorinclex
> - Praetor's Council
> - Caged Sun
> - Eldrazi Monument
> - Garruk Wilspeaker
> - Avenger of Zendikar
> - Sol Ring
> - Sensei's Divining Top
> - Reliquary Tower
> - All the basic lands in the deck
> 
> I've got about half the deck foiled, all told. If I were to purchase the foils for all the other cards in the deck, I'd have to spend about $900 based on current market values. Thankfully, I have some decent trading fodder, which should help mitigate the loss.
> 
> Tested out my new Vish Kal build last night, I like it. Only bummer is that I couldn't find a couple cards that I had in my decklist, even though I know I have them (Emeria Angel and Felidar Sovereign), so I threw in Twilight Drover and Eternal Dragon instead. Twilight Drover actually might be better than Emeria Angel anyhow, as the deck does have a minor token theme. Need to pick up an Adarkar Valkyrie in any case.
> 
> EDIT: Oh man, I just thought of an awesome addition to the deck. Because the activation cost of Vish Kal's ability requires you to "remove all counters" from him, he doesn't actually have to have any counters on him. You can remove "all counters" from him and give target creature -0/-0. The important part though, is that you can activate the ability and target other things. This gives it absolutely hilarious synergy with Horobi, Death's Wail, which can turn his ability into a free Plague Wind! Even double checked the card rulings, it's legit!


----------



## Xaios

xXxPriestessxXx said:


> Oh how I wish I had my Judge Foil Gaea's Cradle back.  Also, I remember when Eldrazi Monuments were really expensive. I have been really lucky in getting the expensive cards I have. People come in to sell stuff all the time and they usual want what they can sell it to SCG for.
> 
> Also is that a judge Sol Ring or a FTV one? And what foil lands are you running in it?



The Sol Ring is simply an FTV edition. The judge foil one is a little more than I want to spend, considering the Commander version of the card can be had for about $5. I've never been that fond of the original art for Sol Ring though, I like the FTV art a lot more.

And yeah, I got the foil Eldrazi Monument by trading a non-foil and the difference in value in cash for the foil. Of course it's worth a lot less now. Such is the way of things. 

As far as foil lands go, I haven't managed to amass sets of lands with any specific art. I simply picked the foils with the art that I like most from my collection and threw them in. They range from Mercadian Masques all the way up through Innistrad.

I generally don't go out of my way to acquire foil lands with specific arts. However, there is one exception to this rule, a Plains from M11:







I've just really liked this art from the first time I saw it, especially when I saw it foiled. Alas, I've been trying to find them for months now, and I've only managed to get one. The problem is that this art was originally used as the art on the Lorwyn edition of a Japanese MPS promo card, which means it's more sought after than a regular Plains. With the M11 printing being the only English version printed (and being as I prefer English cards), it makes it that much more difficult to find. Even SCG rarely ever has any.

Do you work at a card store, out of curiosity?


----------



## xXxPriestessxXx

Xaios said:


> The Sol Ring is simply an FTV edition. The judge foil one is a little more than I want to spend, considering the Commander version of the card can be had for about $5. I've never been that fond of the original art for Sol Ring though, I like the FTV art a lot more.
> 
> And yeah, I got the foil Eldrazi Monument by trading a non-foil and the difference in value in cash for the foil. Of course it's worth a lot less now. Such is the way of things.
> 
> As far as foil lands go, I haven't managed to amass sets of lands with any specific art. I simply picked the foils with the art that I like most from my collection and threw them in. They range from Mercadian Masques all the way up through Innistrad.
> 
> I generally don't go out of my way to acquire foil lands with specific arts. However, there is one exception to this rule, a Plains from M11:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've just really liked this art from the first time I saw it, especially when I saw it foiled. Alas, I've been trying to find them for months now, and I've only managed to get one. The problem is that this art was originally used as the art on the Lorwyn edition of a Japanese MPS promo card, which means it's more sought after than a regular Plains. With the M11 printing being the only English version printed (and being as I prefer English cards), it makes it that much more difficult to find. Even SCG rarely ever has any.
> 
> Do you work at a card store, out of curiosity?



I work at and own one. We are at the point where we aren't big enough for employees, so we are the employees.  It's an amusing place to work except on Saturdays when all the Yu-gi-oh kids come in.


----------



## Ill-Gotten James

Wow. I have not played Magic the Gathering in about 10 years and quite a bit has changed. I do not recognize any of the cards. I'm glad to see that people still play it though.


----------



## Xaios

xXxPriestessxXx said:


> I work at and own one. We are at the point where we aren't big enough for employees, so we are the employees.  It's an amusing place to work except on Saturdays when all the Yu-gi-oh kids come in.



Awesome! Whereabouts?


----------



## xXxPriestessxXx

Xaios said:


> Awesome! Whereabouts?



It's right next to the campus of the University of Alabama. Great spot because we get a good bit of players from the school.


----------



## Xaios

Ah, nice. Well, if I'm ever down that way (I probably won't be, as I live in the freakin Yukon ), I'll bring my EDH deck and we'll have a game.


----------



## xXxPriestessxXx

Xaios said:


> Ah, nice. Well, if I'm ever down that way (I probably won't be, as I live in the freakin Yukon ), I'll bring my EDH deck and we'll have a game.



The Yukon?!

 Now I picture you as a completely different person. If you travel to any of the GPs or SCG stuff then let me know. I got to quite a bit of those things.

Funny side note: I don't know if you know of any of the SCG guys, but Todd Anderson, Gerry Thompson, and Alex Bertincini were all at our store for St Patricks 2011. We all went after the store closed to Waffle House. In the course of the night, Todd laid Gerry out in the parking lot and then the Waffle House was robbed while we were all there. It was such a strange night.


----------



## Xaios

xXxPriestessxXx said:


> The Yukon?!
> 
> Now I picture you as a completely different person. If you travel to any of the GPs or SCG stuff then let me know. I got to quite a bit of those things.
> 
> Funny side note: I don't know if you know of any of the SCG guys, but Todd Anderson, Gerry Thompson, and Alex Bertincini were all at our store for St Patricks 2011. We all went after the store closed to Waffle House. In the course of the night, Todd laid Gerry out in the parking lot and then the Waffle House was robbed while we were all there. It was such a strange night.



I was going to hit GP Vancouver in June, but then my best friend going up decided he was going to get married the same weekend as the GP is happening, so now I'm going to Calgary instead and I have to miss the GP. 

(I imagine I'll still find a way to blow $500-$1000 on cards anyway, so not all is lost. )

I actually subscribe to SCG premium, so I read their stuff all the time. I really enjoy Gerry Thompson's articles actually. He looks like a blond Sidney Crosby, which appeals to the canuck in me. He's my second-favorite SCG behind Patrick Chapin.

Except I still shudder whenever I hear Chapin's music.


----------



## caskettheclown

xXxPriestessxXx said:


> It's right next to the campus of the University of Alabama. Great spot because we get a good bit of players from the school.


I shall have to visit sometime then. Im in Alabama as well.


----------



## ittoa666

Just built a prototype bant deck based on angel's tomb, acidic slime, and flickers.


----------



## ittoa666

Bump: Getting two new decks going. Building a Red White humans and a Green White humans. Gonna be smashin some faces soon.


----------



## Nile

R/W Humans works great.


----------



## ittoa666

Nile said:


> R/W Humans works great.



 Especially once you have enough mana and multiple Slayers' Strongholds. Pump that cloistered youth up!


----------



## Nile

ittoa666 said:


> Especially once you have enough mana and multiple Slayers' Strongholds. Pump that cloistered youth up!



Actually I haven't even put any in because sometimes I just don't get the mana colors I need. Sometimes I need a total of 3 white in a turn, a lot of the times 2 red because of Hellrider.



Also, Hellrider is fucking great, especially with 5 or 6 of those spells that give you human and spirit tokens in a deck.


----------



## ittoa666

Nile said:


> Actually I haven't even put any in because sometimes I just don't get the mana colors I need. Sometimes I need a total of 3 white in a turn, a lot of the times 2 red because of Hellrider.
> 
> 
> 
> Also, Hellrider is fucking great, especially with 5 or 6 of those spells that give you human and spirit tokens in a deck.



I just use clifftop retreats for fixing.


----------



## Nile

ittoa666 said:


> I just use clifftop retreats for fixing.



I do too, but sometimes it just isn't enough so all I run is lands for colored mana.


----------



## caskettheclown

Just pulled a phrexian obliterator 

I'm happy


----------



## ittoa666

caskettheclown said:


> Just pulled a phrexian obliterator
> 
> I'm happy



I pulled two blackcleave cliffs in a row in two packs. I'm happy about it.


----------



## Xaios

Pulled a Griselbrand and a Sigarda at a draft tonight.


----------



## xXxPriestessxXx

caskettheclown said:


> I shall have to visit sometime then. Im in Alabama as well.



Let me know when you get down to this way and I will be sure to be at the store that day. I'm not hard to pick out in that place.  Girls really don't frequent that place.


----------



## Xaios

xXxPriestessxXx said:


> Let me know when you get down to this way and I will be sure to be at the store that day. I'm not hard to pick out in that place.  Girls really don't frequent that place.



Heh, anytime a girl comes down into the store I play at, it tends to illicit fearful stares from the better portion of the male populace in the store.


----------



## xXxPriestessxXx

Xaios said:


> Heh, anytime a girl comes down into the store I play at, it tends to illicit fearful stares from the better portion of the male populace in the store.



Well it was that way for our store at first, but now they don't stare as much. However, some still stammer and studder when spoken too.  Got to love nerds.


----------



## ittoa666

40 of the "new" m12 cards are out. 

2013 Core Set - Magic: the Gathering cards



Spoiler



Vampires are about to get so overpowered.


----------



## caskettheclown

I really need to get a couple more arbor elfs for my elf deck. That and another Winnower Patrol to make it 4. I'm a little proud of my little elf deck, even if they are so very easy to use and build a decent deck out of. I'm proud cause its one of my first decks that wasn't a precon modified or something. It (Many times) beat my friend who is rather cocky about the decks he builds.

Not saying its a great deck as i'm still working on it and I got reamed at the card shop yesterday (But those guys have been at it a lot longer than I have).


----------



## Nile

ittoa666 said:


> 40 of the "new" m12 cards are out.
> 
> 2013 Core Set - Magic: the Gathering cards
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Vampires are about to get so overpowered.



In reply to your green highlighted words, how?


----------



## ittoa666

Nile said:


> In reply to your green highlighted words, how?



It's going to make mono black completely broken if you do it right. Remember, Bloodline Keeper wasn't around when Nocturnus was.


----------



## Slayer89

Not at all. If your aggro deck is relying on keeping two four drops out for an extended period of time, you should get used to losing. Don't get me wrong, it's cool to see Nocturnus again, but Bloodline and him are the only really good vamps aside from Stromkirk Noble.


----------



## ittoa666

Slayer89 said:


> Not at all. If your aggro deck is relying on keeping two four drops out for an extended period of time, you should get used to losing. Don't get me wrong, it's cool to see Nocturnus again, but Bloodline and him are the only really good vamps aside from Stromkirk Noble.



As long as Nighthawk doesn't come back for some reason.


----------



## Xaios

ittoa666 said:


> It's going to make mono black completely broken if you do it right. Remember, Bloodline Keeper wasn't around when Nocturnus was.



The problem there is that Bloodline Keeper and Vampire Nocturnus are competing for the same mana slot, which is also up for grabs by Olivia Voldaren.

Another issue is that Vampires currently lack a viable 2 mana Vampire, as Innistrad didn't have any worth playing. It also only has one viable 1 mana vampire (Stromkirk Noble).

Lastly, Vampire Nocturnus doesn't play nicely with the red vampires of Innistrad block, as it requires the top card of your library to be black in order for its effect to work.

I think there are too many cards that Wizards would have to reprint in order to make Vampires good again, such as Vampire Lacerator, Kalastria Highborn, Bloodghast, Gatekeeper of Malakir, and the aforementioned Vampire Nighthawk. Innistrad's vampires tended to be powerful, but inefficient compared to their Zendikar counterparts. The incorporation of Slith Firewalker effect was neat, but ultimately left them underpowered when they first hit the battlefield.


----------



## TreWatson

I have a mono black zombie deck but i know nothing about the game (not really anyway, i'm a yu-gi-oh player)

but i like how blue cards (instants, cancelling, taking multiple turns) would work with zombies and their start 0f turn ability to make more zombies.

i was told that for the deck to be really good i'd need grim grin and a grave titan

anyone else think they can help me NOT suck at this game?

my other bandmate in carthage Noyan(nayon on here) plays and is really good, but i kinda suck. the one time we played he DESTROYED me.


----------



## Xaios

TreWatson said:


> I have a mono black zombie deck but i know nothing about the game (not really anyway, i'm a yu-gi-oh player)
> 
> but i like how blue cards (instants, cancelling, taking multiple turns) would work with zombies and their start 0f turn ability to make more zombies.
> 
> i was told that for the deck to be really good i'd need grim grin and a grave titan
> 
> anyone else think they can help me NOT suck at this game?
> 
> my other bandmate in carthage Noyan(nayon on here) plays and is really good, but i kinda suck. the one time we played he DESTROYED me.



Grim-Grin and Grave Titan ARE great cards, but they're not "all that." They're great finishers, but a finisher is only really any good if you've got an engine powering it. Some of the smaller zombies that you want to include are Gravecrawler, Diregraf Captain (if you're planning on running blue), Diregraf Ghoul, Geralf's Messenger and Highborn Ghoul (this card is deceptively good in a zombie deck).

Even though it's not technically a zombie, one of the best cards you can throw in is Phyrexian Obliterator. If you can play it, it's just that good. It's a HUGE deterrant to keep your opponent from attacking, and it's a creature that they'll never want to block.

Another interesting bit of tech is Mortar Pod. This combos with both Gravecrawler, which gives it a creature that you can sacrifice repeatedly without sacrificing board position, and Diregraf Captain, which drains your opponent's life (so long as you're not sacrificing the Diregraf Captain).

As far as blue cards go, the standard suite of Vapor Snag and Mana Leak is pretty potent.

Bear in mind that I've never built my own deck like this. I've simply gotten my face beaten by people who have managed to build it. One other consideration also is that this deck really gained nothing from Avacyn Restored, so it's not positioned as well as it was when Dark Ascension was the most recent set.


----------



## TreWatson

Xaios said:


> Grim-Grin and Grave Titan ARE great cards, but they're not "all that." They're great finishers, but a finisher is only really any good if you've got an engine powering it. Some of the smaller zombies that you want to include are Gravecrawler, Diregraf Captain (if you're planning on running blue), Diregraf Ghoul, Geralf's Messenger and Highborn Ghoul (this card is deceptively good in a zombie deck).
> 
> Even though it's not technically a zombie, one of the best cards you can throw in is Phyrexian Obliterator. If you can play it, it's just that good. It's a HUGE deterrant to keep your opponent from attacking, and it's a creature that they'll never want to block.
> 
> Another interesting bit of tech is Mortar Pod. This combos with both Gravecrawler, which gives it a creature that you can sacrifice repeatedly without sacrificing board position, and Diregraf Captain, which drains your opponent's life (so long as you're not sacrificing the Diregraf Captain).
> 
> As far as blue cards go, the standard suite of Vapor Snag and Mana Leak is pretty potent.
> 
> Bear in mind that I've never built my own deck like this. I've simply gotten my face beaten by people who have managed to build it. One other consideration also is that this deck really gained nothing from Avacyn Restored, so it's not positioned as well as it was when Dark Ascension was the most recent set.



I just play decks i enjoy so that's fine 

and thanks!


----------



## Xaios

Wow.

So Wizards is actually, finally doing it.

After nearly 20 years...

A plain old vanilla "destroy target creature" spell with no targeting restrictions or added effects designed to pad the cost. 3 mana (2 black, one colorless). Called "Murder."

Good job, Wizards.

EDIT: Also, in a wonderfully ironic twist, Vampire Nighthawk is being reprinted in M13.


----------



## TreWatson

ittoa666 said:


> 40 of the "new" m12 cards are out.
> 
> 2013 Core Set - Magic: the Gathering cards
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Vampires are about to get so overpowered.




...as if they weren't already.


----------



## ittoa666

Xaios said:


> Wow.
> 
> So Wizards is actually, finally doing it.
> 
> After nearly 20 years...
> 
> A plain old vanilla "destroy target creature" spell with no targeting restrictions or added effects designed to pad the cost. 3 mana (2 black, one colorless). Called "Murder."
> 
> Good job, Wizards.



 That's amazing.



> EDIT: Also, in a wonderfully ironic twist, Vampire Nighthawk is being reprinted in M13.



This is not.  Thankfully they playtest and know how the card will work in the game.


----------



## Anonymous

Been meaning to post here for a a while
I got an Avacyn in a trade not to long, now I just need to build a deck thats worth running her in......
Anyways, Does anybody know what Return to Ravnica will be like. Like whats the theme behind it? 
(EX: Like how avacyn and DA is like angles vs. demons stuff like that, I guess.)


----------



## Xaios

Well, presumably the mechanics of Return to Ravnica will follow the mechanics of the original Ravnica, albeit loosely. For example, a multicolored theme centered around the 10 guilds.

(Also, just to note, only AVR was really about Angels vs. Demons. Dark Ascension continued the tribal mechanics of Innistrad (Humans/Werewolves/Vampires/Zombies/Spirits).)


----------



## Anonymous

Oh.
Thanks, you'll have to excuse me. I'm a little newish to Magic, I kinda played a few years back. (8th-9th Edition) and got back in right as Avacyn dropped.


----------



## ittoa666

I'm so excited for RtR. I didn't get a chance to play in that block, so I'm dying to play that set.


----------



## Anonymous

I wish I would have came in during New Phyrexia and that block. Last FNM I went to I was destroyed by a phyrexia deck.
1 and 2 drops and a few 0s that just boosted each other. with some artifact that made them stronger. I cant remember its name but it just destroyed my angel deck(but it also really sucked).
I really liked the mechanics of it and just the creatures, they reminded me of the stuff I used a while back like. like the loxdon _______ (Elephant monk or warrior stuff like that.)


----------



## Xaios

Anonymous said:


> I wish I would have came in during New Phyrexia and that block. Last FNM I went to I was destroyed by a phyrexia deck.
> 1 and 2 drops and a few 0s that just boosted each other. with some artifact that made them stronger. I cant remember its name but it just destroyed my angel deck(but it also really sucked).
> I really liked the mechanics of it and just the creatures, they reminded me of the stuff I used a while back like. like the loxdon _______ (Elephant monk or warrior stuff like that.)



New Phyrexia was indeed a very powerful set. If Caw Blade wasn't broken before New Phyrexia came out, it sure as heck was after, with the introduction of Sword of War and Peace, as well as Batterskull. Phyrexian Mana also changed the game just about completely. Mental Misstep was banned in Legacy only a few weeks later.

Glad I traded my foil before it was banned.


----------



## Daemoniac

Return to Ravnica will be awesome.


----------



## ittoa666

Just got the two new event decks. Very neat.


----------



## Daemoniac

I ordered some finishing touches (hopefully) for a black/red Demon deck. Lot of extra mana generation courtesy of Magus of The Coffers and Caged Sun, and some more nasty spells like Nettlevine Blight, Hex, Rain of Gore, Master Warcraft and Painful Quandary to be a real pain in the arse (along with many large demonic creatures )


----------



## Daemoniac

All the while, bearing in mind that I tend not to play proper tournament style decks... I'm sure I could make one, but I like having longer, more drawn out games and really enjoying crushing my opponents into nothingness (my Artifact deck at the moment is the best I have... Could be wiped out pretty easily by a deck focused in the very early game, but with the right hand (and even without), if I can last til the mid game, it gets really really rude, really fast  )


----------



## ittoa666

A few new spoilers.


----------



## xXxPriestessxXx

Krenko could get out of hand fast.


----------



## Slayer89

Well, Delver has finally reached the almost cawblade level with Restoration filling the tiny gaps it had before. Anyone expect a banning soon, or think they'll just let it go until rotation?

(Also, looking to trade GR Aggro pieces for Delver pieces , lol)


----------



## xXxPriestessxXx

I am really up in the air on Delver. I play that deck so I really don't want to see it banned, but I also don't want it to be the Cawblade of the format. The only thing that makes me think something might be done is that it still has a year left in standard.


----------



## ittoa666

I think that if anything needs to be fully banned, it should be lingering souls. Just go all out and get rid of that trash.


----------



## Slayer89

Well, Lingering Souls is fine. Really does nothing oppressive to the competitive scene currently.

I'm curious as to what might be banned from Delver to cool it down a bit if it comes to that. Hopefully only Ponder if they do place a banning. Even knowing there might be a banning, I'm still trying to sleeve it up. Anything short of banning Snapcaster and it will still be a very powerful deck.


----------



## Asrial

Okay, I've been playing the DotPW-game from steam a lot to learn the game, but as far as I can see, there's noone in my vicinity that's into the game so I can't really start investing in the game. That's rahter bad, as I really enjoy tactical battlecardgames. :/

And agreed, Krenko's badass.


----------



## Xaios

ittoa666 said:


> I think that if anything needs to be fully banned, it should be lingering souls. Just go all out and get rid of that trash.



Lingering Souls is a great card, but it's not at all format-warping. I don't see that happening.

In Patrick Chapin's most recent article, he reasons that Ponder is the likely target, is it provides the card filtering that really puts the deck over the top, especially with Snapcaster Mage.

The sad fact of the matter, though, is that Snapcaster Mage is really freaking powerful and should be banned. He effectively makes blue, the longtime best color in magic, almost twice as good, by providing both obscene card advantage and a capable sword carrier body. While the swords rotate with SoM (thank God), unless something is done, Wizards is going to be spending the next year and a half wondering "how good is this card with Snapcaster Mage," and that's a terrible position to be in from a design standpoint because it forces Wizards to de-power other possibly cool cards because of potentially broken interactions. Heck, they've already printed a hoser card for one of those combos (Wizards has publically acknowledged that Cavern of Souls was printed specifically to combat Snapcaster Mage + Mana Leak).

It's already started to get worse, too. If Mana Leak or Vapor Snag are to Snapcaster Mage what Sword of Feast and Famine was to Stoneforge Mystic, then Restoration Angel is it's Batterskull. It gives decks that run Snaps a late game beater, resistance to board clearing, an instant speed blocker, and even more value than Batterskull in the form of potential protection for your creatures from targeted removal. And while it doesn't come down as fast as Batterskull did with Stoneforge Mystic, it doesn't rely on any other cards to come down in a reactive way.

Just as Patrick Chapin has said though, what it comes down to is tournament attendance. And while he seems to be pretty certain that Snapcaster will have the same effect on the format in the end, it hasn't manifested yet in the form of reduced attendance, and Wizards won't change anything so long as it appears that they're still in the black.


----------



## ittoa666

I can readily agree with all of that. Snap is very game breaking.


----------



## PyramidSmasher

Slayer89 said:


> Well, Delver has finally reached the almost cawblade level with Restoration filling the tiny gaps it had before. Anyone expect a banning soon, or think they'll just let it go until rotation?
> 
> (Also, looking to trade GR Aggro pieces for Delver pieces , lol)



Snapcaster Mage will be banned if anything

Edit: Haha didnt see the much more elaborate description above this.

Does anyone use homebrews here?


----------



## Xaios

Sure, why not, staple Master Warcraft to a creature, that's fair. 

Seriously though, that's ridiculous. I'm totally going to build a mono-white Battlecry deck with him before Scars block rotates.


----------



## ittoa666

Xaios said:


> Sure, why not, staple Master Warcraft to a creature, that's fair.
> 
> Seriously though, that's ridiculous. I'm totally going to build a mono-white Battlecry deck with him before Scars block rotates.



No pic.


----------



## Xaios

ittoa666 said:


> No pic.



Can't help ya, it still works for me.


----------



## ittoa666

Xaios said:


> Can't help ya, it still works for me.



I found it. Crazy.


----------



## Nile

That new goblin that taps to add an X amount of goblins for each goblin you control is kind of broken if you have out the one goblin that gives all other ones haste. With pile driver its a whole shit ton worse.


----------



## ittoa666

Just a bit off topic, but still hilarious.


----------



## Nile

ittoa666 said:


> Just a bit off topic, but still hilarious.



What is really hilarious is the test card they had on the card data base for Cockatrice. It just said "Destroy target player."


----------



## Xaios

So, they're reprinting Rancor.

Infect is gonna be pretty good for the next 3 months...


----------



## ittoa666




----------



## Xaios

Lilianna is okay, although she'll only fit into a very specific kinda deck. Ajani is pretty smokin', though!


----------



## ittoa666

Xaios said:


> Lilianna is okay, although she'll only fit into a very specific kinda deck. Ajani is pretty smokin', though!



That's what I was thinking. Ajani is gonna be fun to play.


----------



## caskettheclown

Only one Liliana that I really love and its already in my reanimator so i'm good.


Yeva, Nature's Herald will go in perfect with my mono-green elf deck!


Also this looks to be hella lulzy if you can ever get enough mana for it.


----------



## Xaios

caskettheclown said:


> Only one Liliana that I really love and its already in my reanimator so i'm good.



Indeed, Liliana of the Veil is definitely perfectly suited to reanimator decks. The new Liliana, conversely, is definitely geared towards mono-black control.


----------



## caskettheclown

Anyone know how to stop a storm deck from taking off? Thats basically all I face at the thursday night legacy tournaments.


----------



## Nile

caskettheclown said:


> Anyone know how to stop a storm deck from taking off? Thats basically all I face at the thursday night legacy tournaments.



What color/deck are you playing?


Usually Thorn of Amethyst/Guardian of Thraben are pretty good against them. Some card that I've forgotten but only allows players one spell per turn. Leyline of Sanctity is also a plus if the storm cards target you and can also be sided in to completely kill burn decks.


----------



## Xaios

Indeed, there are a few different ways:
- Thorn of Amathyst
- Ethersworn Canonist
- Flusterstorm


----------



## Nile

Xaios said:


> Indeed, there are a few different ways:
> - Thorn of Amathyst
> - Ethersworn Canonist
> - Flusterstorm



Never heard of Flusterstorm, and damn is it good against storm.


----------



## Xaios

Nile said:


> Never heard of Flusterstorm, and damn is it good against storm.



It's only ever been printed in the Commander pre-con decks, same with Scavenging Ooze, which is part of the reason they're expensive cards.


----------



## tacotiklah

I've been wanting to build my own deck for quite a while, but I'm completely clueless as to how to build a good one. I'm particularly interested in building either a demon or angel deck. The latter looks like it could be more fun, but my experience with black decks is that they have lower mana costs, which I need since I'm just the unluckiest person I know and I get mana screwed often...

Any advice for a n00b like me?


----------



## Xaios

ghstofperdition said:


> I've been wanting to build my own deck for quite a while, but I'm completely clueless as to how to build a good one. I'm particularly interested in building either a demon or angel deck. The latter looks like it could be more fun, but my experience with black decks is that they have lower mana costs, which I need since I'm just the unluckiest person I know and I get mana screwed often...
> 
> Any advice for a n00b like me?



First question: do you care about your deck being Standard-legal and competitive, or will it be a purely casual deck?


----------



## tacotiklah

It will be casual. I don't get to tournaments and the only people that I know who play do so in the college cafeteria.


----------



## Nile

ghstofperdition said:


> I've been wanting to build my own deck for quite a while, but I'm completely clueless as to how to build a good one. I'm particularly interested in building either a demon or angel deck. The latter looks like it could be more fun, but my experience with black decks is that they have lower mana costs, which I need since I'm just the unluckiest person I know and I get mana screwed often...
> 
> Any advice for a n00b like me?



So basically, mono black or mono white. That's what those two decks would generally be.


----------



## tacotiklah

Exactly. I prefer mono decks anyways because of my luck with getting mana screwed.

I play Duels of the Planeswalkers and I really like the white deck and vampire deck they have in it.


----------



## Nile

ghstofperdition said:


> Exactly. I prefer mono decks anyways because of my luck with getting mana screwed.
> 
> I play Duels of the Planeswalkers and I really like the white deck and vampire deck they have in it.



A vampire deck is pretty straight forward, a white deck can go in a few directions like heavy control or weenie or equipment with Stoneforge and Puresteel.


I suppose vampires aren't that straight forward with something of 3 variants I know of. R/B vampires, straight up basic B vampires and something of a suicide vampire deck with Kalastria.


----------



## Xaios

There are lots of good vampires to choose from. Zendikar and Worldwake alone gave several great ones:
- Bloodghast
- Gatekeeper of Malakir
- Kalastria Highborn
- Malakir Bloodwitch (sideboard against white)
- Vampire Hexmage
- Vampire Lacerator
- Vampire Nighthawk

Those are all top-tier vampires, and they're all relatively cheap to boot. The most expensive one is probably Bloodghast, and even he only runs about $4 these days. Then, from Innistrad block you can add Bloodline Keeper, Blood Artist and Vampire Interloper, all while staying mono-colored and lean. There are some other great ones as well such as Vampire Nocturnus and Captivating Vampire. Add a shell of kill spells like Doom Blade, Go For The Throat and Dismember and you're laughing. If you're not against spending the cash, you could throw in Aether Vials and play the deck Merfolk-style. That would allow you to always keep mana open for kill spells while still developing your board.


----------



## tacotiklah

Vampires are cool, but what about demon decks? Or Angel decks?


----------



## Nile

ghstofperdition said:


> Vampires are cool, but what about demon decks? Or Angel decks?



Now, based on them even being good, you can't really make an angel or demon deck in MTG. It doesn't have any lords as far as I know and generally angels and demons are higher costing creatures. Vampires would be a best bet for a mono black tribal deck.



AEther Vials are amazing first turn drops too and really speed up a deck.


----------



## tacotiklah

Okay, then yeah, vampires would be my pick after that. I dig the vampire deck in DotPW, but I feel that I could beef it up way more if I actually owned that deck somehow.

Now my next question in deck build is basically creature:spell/artifact/enchantment:mana ratio. In the original pokemon card game I managed to figure this out pretty well, but MtG is way more complex (re:awesome) so I'm having more trouble figuring this out.


----------



## Nile

ghstofperdition said:


> Okay, then yeah, vampires would be my pick after that. I dig the vampire deck in DotPW, but I feel that I could beef it up way more if I actually owned that deck somehow.
> 
> Now my next question in deck build is basically creature:spell/artifact/enchantment:mana ratio. In the original pokemon card game I managed to figure this out pretty well, but MtG is way more complex (re:awesome) so I'm having more trouble figuring this out.



20 lands is generally the basis of all decks, then you modify that number based on the deck your playing and CMC's of your cards. Vampires with AEther Vials should get by pretty well on 17-19 lands. Lower number if playing Dark Ritual's also. Spell/creature/artifact/enchantment ratio in MTG should just be taken as threat/answer/disruption/utility (disruption and utility should only be taken into account if a deck needs/uses those types of cards) type of ratio.

Your threats in vampires would obviously be the creatures your packing with their power and their abilities. Since its creature based, and people generally run plenty of answers to creatures, you would need a good supply of creatures to keep your threats up.

Answers in mono black are generally creature killing effects, or rarely counter spells (Dash Hopes is the only one I know of). (Might be missing some aspect of control or answer to things in this part.)

Disruption in black comes in the form of mana denial/land destruction, discard spells or effects, or specific cards that can be dealt with. 
For mana denial/land destruction there is many, like Rain of Tears, Rishaden Port, Sinkhole, etc.
Creature kill spells are aplenty.
Specific card control is something like Extirpate, Surgical Extraction, or Sadistic Sacrament.

Utility cards will get you cards either from outside the game (Wish's) or from your deck. Demonic Tutor, Vampiric Tutor, etc. I suppose drawing could be utility too. IE; Phyrexian Arena, Dark Confidant, Sign In Blood.



I'm by no means amazing at this game or at how to make decks, I don't even know why I wrote that much. So take it all with a grain of salt and listen to Xaios.


----------



## Xaios

ghstofperdition said:


> Okay, then yeah, vampires would be my pick after that. I dig the vampire deck in DotPW, but I feel that I could beef it up way more if I actually owned that deck somehow.



The thing is, tribal decks as a rule tend to be very aggressive. In my W/G humans deck, the most expensive spell in my mainboard is Hero of Bladehold, which is only 4 mana. Then in my sideboard, the most expensive spell is Sigarda, Host of Herons, which is 5 mana.



ghstofperdition said:


> Now my next question in deck build is basically creature:spell/artifact/enchantment:mana ratio. In the original pokemon card game I managed to figure this out pretty well, but MtG is way more complex (re:awesome) so I'm having more trouble figuring this out.



There is no right or wrong answer to this question. My W/G Humans deck only has 4 spells in the mainboard that aren't either creatures themselves or make creatures when cast. Conversely, the deck that won a recent block format Pro Tour was a creatureless miracle deck. Whatever serves the deck best.


----------



## caskettheclown

Nile said:


> What color/deck are you playing?
> 
> 
> Usually Thorn of Amethyst/Guardian of Thraben are pretty good against them. Some card that I've forgotten but only allows players one spell per turn. Leyline of Sanctity is also a plus if the storm cards target you and can also be sided in to completely kill burn decks.



I have a reanimator, monogreen elves deck, monored burn deck, and i'm working on a blue black deck that isn't sure what it wants to be (Still working on the deck)


----------



## tacotiklah

Thanks Xaios! 

Yeah I tend to like the overwhelming strategy, so I think it would be awesome to have a creature oriented deck, and one where I keep getting flying vampire or bat tokens, with some other cards to really boost them way up and then swarm. Maybe even something to give them double strike or deathtouch.


----------



## Xaios

ghstofperdition said:


> Thanks Xaios!
> 
> Yeah I tend to like the overwhelming strategy, so I think it would be awesome to have a creature oriented deck, and one where I keep getting flying vampire or bat tokens, with some other cards to really boost them way up and then swarm. Maybe even something to give them double strike or deathtouch.



Vampires can certainly be effective in that regard. Other good options for aggressive tribal decks are goblins, elves and white weenies.

On another note, Griselbrand is now Grisel_BANNED_ in EDH. 

(As is Sundering Titan)


----------



## ittoa666

Xaios said:


> On another note, Griselbrand is now Grisel_BANNED_ in EDH.



Whoever would have thought that tutoring for seven every turn would get banned in some form eventually?


----------



## xXxPriestessxXx

> On another note, Griselbrand is now Grisel_BANNED_ in EDH.
> 
> (As is Sundering Titan)



Saw that. I will miss you Sundering Titan.

However, Land Tax is now unbanned in Legacy.


----------



## Xaios

ittoa666 said:


> Whoever would have thought that tutoring for seven every turn would get banned in some form eventually?



GB didn't tutor, he just drew. Tutoring is finding specific cards in your deck. If GB had let you tutor 7 cards for free at instant speed, he would have been even more broken.


----------



## ittoa666

Xaios said:


> GB didn't tutor, he just drew. Tutoring is finding specific cards in your deck. If GB had let you tutor 7 cards for free at instant speed, he would have been even more broken.



Sorry. Meant to say necro.


----------



## Xaios

ittoa666 said:


> Sorry. Meant to say necro.



That's closer, but the card that Griselbrand most closely resembled was Yawgmoth's Bargain:







If Necropotence is a Ford Ranger, then Yawgmoth's Bargain is a Dodge Ram Megacab with a lift kit.

Alas, Griselbrand is an 18-wheeler being driven by Clint Eastwood. He's seriously probably the second best creature ever printed, only outclassed by Emrakul.


----------



## Nile

Xaios said:


> Griselbrand is an 18-wheeler being driven by Clint Eastwood.



This is how I will see it from now on.


----------



## xXxPriestessxXx

I will miss mindslavering and paying for Griselbrand's ability with their life. That was always fun.


----------



## Xaios

xXxPriestessxXx said:


> I will miss mindslavering and paying for Griselbrand's ability with their life. That was always fun.



Alas, you can't actually kill someone that way, at least not with Griselbrand. The use of pay life abilities is predicated on having enough life to pay. If someone only has 5 life, they can't activate GB's ability and suicide themselves.

However, if someone controls a permanent that allows them to pay 1 life at a time, it can always be done.


----------



## xXxPriestessxXx

Xaios said:


> Alas, you can't actually kill someone that way, at least not with Griselbrand. The use of pay life abilities is predicated on having enough life to pay. If someone only has 5 life, they can't activate GB's ability and suicide themselves.
> 
> However, if someone controls a permanent that allows them to pay 1 life at a time, it can always be done.



I happened to hit someone with 7 life. He didn't see it coming at all either. His face was priceless.


----------



## Xaios

xXxPriestessxXx said:


> I happened to hit someone with 7 life. He didn't see it coming at all either. His face was priceless.


----------



## xXxPriestessxXx

Also, Worldfire is itching to be put in Jo'hora.


----------



## ittoa666

Xaios said:


> Alas, Griselbrand is an 18-wheeler being driven by Clint Eastwood. He's seriously probably the second best creature ever printed, only outclassed by Emrakul.


----------



## Xaios

So, sitting at the Calgary Airport waiting to board a plane home. On my trip, I hit up all the MTG singles retailers in town and acquired some DAMN sweet cards for my Omnath deck:

- FNM foil Eternal Witness
- Foil Tranquil Thicket
- Judge foil Natural Order
- Judge foil Survival of the Fittest
- Foil Genesis


----------



## Nile

Xaios said:


> So, sitting at the Calgary Airport waiting to board a plane home. On my trip, I hit up all the MTG singles retailers in town and acquired some DAMN sweet cards for my Omnath deck:
> 
> - FNM foil Eternal Witness
> - Foil Tranquil Thicket
> - Judge foil Natural Order
> - Judge foil Survival of the Fittest
> - Foil Genesis



That's some fucking money right there.


----------



## caskettheclown

I bought the Ajana vs Nicol Bolas duel decks and so far i'm loving the Ajani deck it comes with, the Nicol deck is good too I think. The mana base is a little crazy but its kind of hard to get perfect with three colors but still.

Probably gonna try and modify it and make it a bit more competitive.


----------



## ittoa666

caskettheclown said:


> I bought the Ajana vs Nicol Bolas duel decks and so far i'm loving the Ajani deck it comes with, the Nicol deck is good too I think. The mana base is a little crazy but its kind of hard to get perfect with three colors but still.
> 
> Probably gonna try and modify it and make it a bit more competitive.



Put the evolving wilds from the ajani deck into the nicol one.


----------



## caskettheclown

ittoa666 said:


> Put the evolving wilds from the ajani deck into the nicol one.



I meant i was gonna modify the ajani deck


----------



## ittoa666

caskettheclown said:


> I meant i was gonna modify the ajani deck



Gotcha. That deck is already crazy.


----------



## wespaul

I'm looking to get back into MTG after a 13 year absence. I used to play a lot in 97-99, but eventually gave it up because I met my wife. Now that I'm divorced, I'm looking to get back into it!

Haha, but seriously --I recently downloaded Magic 2013 for the ipad, and have been glued to my tablet like crazy. I forgot how much fun I had with this game. With that said, I'm looking into getting back into playing with actual cards, but I'm clueless as to what sets are being played, what's legal these days, and how to go about buying cards. Back in the day I'd just roll in and buy a couple 4th edition starter decks, maybe some boosters, and then I would begin to create a deck, and then buy single cards as needed.

Right now I'm familiar with the 2013 set because of the ipad game. I read up that they're releasing a deck builder's toolkit next month - (Link here - Deck Builder's Toolkit (Magic Sealed Product: Box Sets)). I'm unsure what "semi-randomized" means. Do those count rares, or do the rares only come in the booster packs? I have zero cards, so this seems like it would be a nice entry back into the game. It says the booster packs are from various current sets. What's the difference in 2013 and current sets that are out?

Sorry to unload a bunch of questions. It was just the timing of me getting back into it and glancing at this thread on the main page that prompted me to take a peek inside. Thanks!


----------



## Xaios

Nile said:


> That's some fucking money right there.



Indeed. Some of the other money cards I snagged:

- Windswept Heath
- Force of Will
- Mana Drain
- Foil Soothsaying
- Bayou (Revised)
- Scrubland (Revised)
- Intuition
- Invoke Prejudice
- A sweet altered-art Swords to Plowshares


----------



## Asrial

@Wespaul: I'm going into the game too at the moment, and digging MTG13 too (PC tho), but anyway...
As far as I can see, it's the current and the previous block that's tournament approved, so you can't use cards from the '10-series for example (unless special tournament rules applies).
The way Wizards does their randomizing is with tiering, so you won't have the chance of 1:bazillion of getting 225 extremely rare cards. You'd most likely get 150 common cards, 40 uncommons and a decent handful of better than average cards.
In addition to that, I was adviced to pick up an event deck from one of the recent collections which matches my preferred manacolor the most, as they contain rather powerful cards and can be used as a guideline.

And regarding to the cards from current sets, you really have to look at the overall series to get a grasp at that.


----------



## wespaul

Asrial said:


> @Wespaul: I'm going into the game too at the moment, and digging MTG13 too (PC tho), but anyway...
> As far as I can see, it's the current and the previous block that's tournament approved, so you can't use cards from the '10-series for example (unless special tournament rules applies).
> The way Wizards does their randomizing is with tiering, so you won't have the chance of 1:bazillion of getting 225 extremely rare cards. You'd most likely get 150 common cards, 40 uncommons and a decent handful of better than average cards.
> In addition to that, I was adviced to pick up an event deck from one of the recent collections which matches my preferred manacolor the most, as they contain rather powerful cards and can be used as a guideline.
> 
> And regarding to the cards from current sets, you really have to look at the overall series to get a grasp at that.



Nah, I meant, back in the day, you'd buy a booster pack and you were guaranteed a rare, and 2 (maybe 3, it's been awhile) uncommons, and the rest were common cards. You were guaranteed that. I was unclear on this deck builders toolkit, meaning out of the cards that aren't in booster packs, is there still a set amount of rares/uncommons that you're guaranteed? If so, are they randomized, or are only the actual cards in the booster packs randomized?

Good call on the event deck --I'll check it out, for sure. The game seems a lot more complicated than I remember (when it comes to buying cards). Thanks for the help!


----------



## devolutionary

The Deckbuilders Kits are pretty much commons and uncommons, with basic lands. It's designed as a kit for someone who isn't going to buy a lot of boosters but will be wanting to acquire rares. I haven't seen the contents, so I'm not sure on what specifics it holds. You're better off, if you want to get in to competitive play, looking up the archetypes in the forums and seeing what's cheap. I know that a lot of high end decks are relatively cheap. I'm fairly sure Delver, for example, is really affordable in the Blue/Red variant, with only the Snapcaster Mage being the real pricey card.


----------



## ittoa666

Xaios said:


> Indeed. Some of the other money cards I snagged:
> 
> - Windswept Heath
> - Force of Will
> - Mana Drain
> - Foil Soothsaying
> - Bayou (Revised)
> - Scrubland (Revised)
> - Intuition
> - Invoke Prejudice
> - A sweet altered-art Swords to Plowshares



I don't even want to know how you got enough money for all this and the stuff from the first post.


----------



## Xaios

ittoa666 said:


> I don't even want to know how you got enough money for all this and the stuff from the first post.



Consider this: in the 4.5 years I've been posting here, have you ever seen me post a NGD? 

EDIT: I also confirmed that a buddy of mine was able to snag me a foil Vedalken Orrery whilst attending Grand Prix Vancouver, which makes me fucking psyched. I've been trying to find a Vedalken Orrery, foil or no foil, for bloody forever, almost a year. I went to just about every MTG singles seller in Calgary I could find, and NO ONE had any. That sucker is going straight into my Omnath deck as soon as he gets back.


----------



## ittoa666

Xaios said:


> Consider this: in the 4.5 years I've been posting here, have you ever seen me post a NGD?


----------



## caskettheclown

Xaios said:


> Consider this: in the 4.5 years I've been posting here, have you ever seen me post a NGD?
> 
> EDIT: I also confirmed that a buddy of mine was able to snag me a foil Vedalken Orrery whilst attending Grand Prix Vancouver, which makes me fucking psyched. I've been trying to find a Vedalken Orrery, foil or no foil, for bloody forever, almost a year. I went to just about every MTG singles seller in Calgary I could find, and NO ONE had any. That sucker is going straight into my Omnath deck as soon as he gets back.



Why dont you buy online? Surely that would be easier wouldnt it?


----------



## Hemi-Powered Drone

I'm going to Florida Supercon and there are a few booster drafts going on, and I was thinking that maybe that would be a good way to get back into the game and get some cards? Or are booster drafts in MtG different than in Pokemon(the other TCG I play). What do you guys think?


----------



## Nile

dragonblade629 said:


> I'm going to Florida Supercon and there are a few booster drafts going on, and I was thinking that maybe that would be a good way to get back into the game and get some cards? Or are booster drafts in MtG different than in Pokemon(the other TCG I play). What do you guys think?



Well if your just getting back into it a booster draft seems like it would be a bit hard. But, why the hell not, try it.


----------



## Xaios

caskettheclown said:


> Why dont you buy online? Surely that would be easier wouldnt it?



Eh, I just don't like doing it that way. Not to mention, shipping costs and wait times are ridiculous to get stuff here. I once ordered two Ashnod's Altars from ChannelFireball. The cost of the cards was a whopping $1 total. However, I had to add another $3.50 in shipping. And even then, it took about 6 weeks for the cards to arrive.


----------



## Nile

Xaios said:


> Eh, I just don't like doing it that way. Not to mention, shipping costs and wait times are ridiculous to get stuff here. I once ordered two Ashnod's Altars from ChannelFireball. The cost of the cards was a whopping $1 total. However, I had to add another $3.50 in shipping. And even then, it took about 6 weeks for the cards to arrive.



Generally when ordering singles you want to buy in quantity. But that wait time is fucking insane.


----------



## devolutionary

Hey, at least you're in the States. Imagine the trouble with getting singles in New Zealand. There's a few reasons why I switched from physical to digital play.


----------



## Xaios

devolutionary said:


> Hey, at least you're in the States.



News to me.


----------



## devolutionary

... OK, correction. At least you're somewhere that singles are available. We have to wait for the Australian dealers to hit our shores at conventions to have access to shit without it taking 8-10 weeks.


----------



## PyramidSmasher

I'm pumped on M13 so that mono red will actually be viable in type 2 with thundermaw


----------



## Xaios

So they're reprinting Mutilate. Glad I picked up an original foil Mutilate on my trip.


----------



## caskettheclown

Just got a sweet deal on jace memory adept and a holographic alt art liliana vess. Im happy


----------



## ittoa666

Got a triple pack at walmart and pulled a wurmcoil and a snapcaster. Sweet.


----------



## Asrial

Boom. Just ordered a ton of cards! 500 to be exact.
Pre-ordered the 2013-toolkit along with a New Phyrexian fatpack, which will arrive at launch or before.
I pray to get a Krenko. Dat card is stronk.


----------



## Xaios

Asrial said:


> Boom. Just ordered a ton of cards! 500 to be exact.
> Pre-ordered the 2013-toolkit along with a New Phyrexian fatpack, which will arrive at launch or before.
> I pray to get a Krenko. Dat card is stronk.



Uh, you know that New Phyrexia rotates out of Standard in about 3 months from now, right?


----------



## Asrial

^I am well aware of that fact. I mostly wanted the pack because that series is loaded with all sorts of artifacts, which I love using and plan on using in casual and legacy. Also, the Innistrad-block doesn't really appeal that much, whereas I'm waiting for Ravnica to show up.

Plus, it was on sale.


----------



## Xaios

Asrial said:


> ^I am well aware of that fact. I mostly wanted the pack because that series is loaded with all sorts of artifacts, which I love using and plan on using in casual and legacy. Also, the Innistrad-block doesn't really appeal that much, whereas I'm waiting for Ravnica to show up.
> 
> Plus, it was on sale.



Heh, well, the sale thing certainly makes sense. I guess that set does have Sword of War and Peace and Batterskull, which are both playable in Legacy.

Gotta say though, you're missing out with Innistrad. It's definitely the most fun block I've played since I started.


----------



## Asrial

It's mostly because I got a personal bias towards the theme of the block, plus there wasn't that many cards that stood out to me when I checked the last time. Having a spoiler-list up for Avacyn Restored now though, and some cards sure appeals. 

And I have to give a serious mention to Marrowshard, that card really seems to be great versus swarmer-style decks, and can fit into any deck.


----------



## TraceXCOBHCX

This October is going to be terrible, I will miss you Phyrexian mana.


----------



## Xaios

TraceXCOBHCX said:


> This October is going to be terrible, I will miss you Phyrexian mana.



We'll just have to console ourselves with shockland reprints.


----------



## TraceXCOBHCX

Xaios said:


> We'll just have to console ourselves with shockland reprints.



If they are re-printed in Return to Ravnica..... omg haha


----------



## devolutionary

Shocklands... *drools happily at the thought*


----------



## TraceXCOBHCX

*Patiently waiting to replace Darkslick Shores with Watery Grave*


----------



## ittoa666

I hope I can get sets of shocklands before they get even more expensive.


----------



## Asrial

Excuse me of my unknowingness, but why do people seem to adore shocklands for other values than just being expensive? For gameplay, the normal taplands (dragonskull summit, drowned catacomb etc.) seems much more cost efficient.
Triple-lands from the Alara-block also seems far more beneficial, at least if there is any plans of splashing the deck.

Also, I found out why I disliked the Innistrad-block, even though it wasn't obvious: lack of goblins! 
I've only encountered Moonveil Dragon as a potential card to build into a goblin-centered monored deck, which is what I planned after loving the living hell out of the Krenko deck in Planeswalker 13.


----------



## ittoa666

Asrial said:


> Excuse me of my unknowingness, but why do people seem to adore shocklands for other values than just being expensive? For gameplay, the normal taplands (dragonskull summit, drowned catacomb etc.) seems much more cost efficient.
> Triple-lands from the Alara-block also seems far more beneficial, at least if there is any plans of splashing the deck.



Shock lands - MTG Salvation Wiki


----------



## devolutionary

Because it's turn 1 mana of your choice. You cannot beat that. They also count as the basics of their production type, which means any card which lets you fetch up a Plains (plains for the example of Flagstones of Trokair) allows you to get one of four non-basics of win in to play. They are vastly superior in speed because of the difference they make turn 1.


----------



## TraceXCOBHCX

Asrial said:


> Excuse me of my unknowingness, but why do people seem to adore shocklands for other values than just being expensive? For gameplay, the normal taplands (dragonskull summit, drowned catacomb etc.) seems much more cost efficient.
> Triple-lands from the Alara-block also seems far more beneficial, at least if there is any plans of splashing the deck.
> 
> Also, I found out why I disliked the Innistrad-block, even though it wasn't obvious: lack of goblins!
> I've only encountered Moonveil Dragon as a potential card to build into a goblin-centered monored deck, which is what I planned after loving the living hell out of the Krenko deck in Planeswalker 13.


 
Goblins eh? You're going to love m13


----------



## Asrial

devolutionary said:


> Because it's turn 1 mana of your choice. You cannot beat that. They also count as the basics of their production type, which means any card which lets you fetch up a Plains (plains for the example of Flagstones of Trokair) allows you to get one of four non-basics of win in to play. They are vastly superior in speed because of the difference they make turn 1.


1 mana early on is rather situational, as most useful cards I've noted takes a generic and a colored mana. But I didn't notice the lands I suggested wasn't listed as a basic land, so yeah, coupled with a fetch, I can justify shocklands a bit more now.

And if we take the coreset as example, it's around 15 cards that actually is playable with a mana on turn 1. The rest either requires some sort of criteria.



TraceXCOBHCX said:


> Goblins eh? You're going to love m13


I guess my fanboyism for Krenko and the M13-set haven't been showing much in this thread?


----------



## caskettheclown

Any advice for mill decks anyone?


----------



## Xaios

The reason Shocklands are so popular is because, unlike M10 style dual lands and Painlands, they possess each basic land type of the colors of mana they can generate, which means they can be tutored directly into play with fetchlands. For example, you can activate a Misty Rainforest and tutor any shockland that can generate blue or green mana (Hallowed Fountain, Steam Vents, Breeding Pool, Watery Grave, Overgrown Tomb, Stomping Ground and Temple Garden are all legal targets for a Misty Rainforest.) This makes them incredible for color fixing, the closest analogue to original Alpha/Beta/Unlimited/Revised dual lands that are playable in Modern.

Incidentally, they also have great synergy with M10/Innistrad style dual lands. You can drop a Hallowed Fountain on turn one, and then a Glacial Fortress on turn 2, and the Glacial Fortress will come into play untapped.


----------



## devolutionary

Asrial said:


> 1 mana early on is rather situational, as most useful cards I've noted takes a generic and a colored mana. But I didn't notice the lands I suggested wasn't listed as a basic land, so yeah, coupled with a fetch, I can justify shocklands a bit more now.



Competitively you want good 1 drops. Example, my Boros Extended deck back when Zen was around had Goblin Guide, which is a DISGUSTING first turn drop. Lemme give you an idea;

T1 - Sacred Forge, Goblin Guide, swing for 2 (18/18)
T2 - Any R/W land, Lightning Helix, swing for 2 (13/21)

You've got a difference of 8 life in two turns. And that's not even a God Hand which, in this case I always liked going;

T1 - Sacred, Goblin Guide (2 done)
T2 - Flagstones, Plated Geopede (4 damage done)
T3 - Ghost Quarters, Path to Exile (if blockers) or Lightning Helix (7 damage done), Ghost Quarters on Flagstones, Plains, Sacred Forge, Lightning Helix/Searing Blaze (10 damage done), swing with the 2/2 Goblin and 7/7 Geopede (19 damage done)

So almost dead T3, and there are ways to kill with that deck in 3 turns as well, I just haven't used it in several years since Extended got screwed over. All because I had the option of R/W Turn 1. It also meant I have other options immediately, like Path to Exile.


----------



## caskettheclown

Hope everyone is having fun at the prerelease. I had to sleep cause I was almost 30 hours without sleep and slept till 3 in the morning so no prerelease for me


----------



## devolutionary

Pre-release for me isn't until a few weeks. Joys of MTGO.


----------



## refusetofall87

So I found a bunch of cards in my attic a few days ago. Can anyone point me in the right direction of where I can find out how much they are worth? I'm about to sell them to a comic book store but I don't want to get raped


----------



## Xaios

refusetofall87 said:


> So I found a bunch of cards in my attic a few days ago. Can anyone point me in the right direction of where I can find out how much they are worth? I'm about to sell them to a comic book store but I don't want to get raped



Starcitygames.com


----------



## ittoa666

Putting together a casual modern style jund deck. Any suggestions that stay at a fairly inexpensive level? I know I need blightning and bloodbraid, but everything else is up in the air.


----------



## devolutionary

So Jund Cascade? Yeah, that's fairly easy actually. Blightning, Terminate, Bloodbraid, lots of haste creatures, shit like that. Hell, you could almost use the Standard version from Lorwyn/Alara build. Been a while since I built something like that though. Goblin Guide should be accessible these days too.


----------



## Xaios

Some other good options:

- Sprouting Thrinax
- Plated Geopede
- Putrid Leech
- Hellspark Elemental
- Hell's Thunder
- Lightning Bolt
- Maelstrom Pulse
- Bituminous Blast
- Goblin Bushwhacker


----------



## ittoa666

I had some of those in mind Xaios. Definitely gonna pick some up. Goblin guide, too Devo.

In other news, pulled sublime archangel, vamp nocturnus, gilded lotus, and cathedral of war at prerelease. Didn't get to play, unfortunately, because of work though.


----------



## caskettheclown

Store by my house has the MTG Battle Royale box and everything is in near mint condition. he is selling it for only 50 bucks. Is it worth it guys? Opinion? I know land tax is the big card in it and there are a bunch of few dollar cards as well.


----------



## ittoa666

caskettheclown said:


> Store by my house has the MTG Battle Royale box and everything is in near mint condition. he is selling it for only 50 bucks. Is it worth it guys? Opinion? I know land tax is the big card in it and there are a bunch of few dollar cards as well.



http://www.wizards.com/magic/generic/cardlists/battle_royale_checklist.txt

A couple notable cards are swords to plowshares, wrath of god, reanimate, and, like you said, land tax.

Land tax is worth 20 bucks alone.


----------



## devolutionary

Yeah, I'd get it.


----------



## Asrial

Okay, I got my 500 cards today, and everything's cool.

Though, I must say, I recieved 2 mythics from the NPH fat pack; an Etched Monstrosity, and this:






Considering I gave 60&#8364; and recieved a 40&#8364; card along with 499 other cards, some well worth 4-5&#8364; too, I'd say I've been fortunate.


----------



## tacotiklah

^ I've used that card in duels of the planeswalkers to very great effect. Great card!


----------



## Slayer89

Finlly get some decks complete.

Standard: Delver
Pauper: UB Post
Modern: Living End

Now for some Legacy ...


----------



## Xaios

Asrial said:


> Okay, I got my 500 cards today, and everything's cool.
> 
> Though, I must say, I recieved 2 mythics from the NPH fat pack; an Etched Monstrosity, and this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Considering I gave 60&#8364; and recieved a 40&#8364; card along with 499 other cards, some well worth 4-5&#8364; too, I'd say I've been fortunate.



Etched Monstrosity is a flaming bag of turd of a card (EASILY the worst mythic from New Phyrexia), but Sword of War and Peace more than makes up for it. Good pull.


----------



## Nile

They should really down the rarity or just not print it if they even know its going to be shit. Nothing pisses me off more than pulling an Alpha Brawl or that shitty human Gallows from Avacyn. I know they can't make every rare good, but i mean really, Etched Monstrosity a mythic? Those 3 cards I just listed are all rare and mythic and are all unplayable.


----------



## devolutionary

Unplayable in most formats, yes. A lot of those cards find a home in other formats though. Etched Monstrosity is not a terrible card in Limited or Commander/EDH, for example, and there are always crappy cards that shine in very peculiar ways for specific combos.


----------



## Xaios

devolutionary said:


> Unplayable in most formats, yes. A lot of those cards find a home in other formats though. Etched Monstrosity is not a terrible card in Limited or Commander/EDH, for example, and there are always crappy cards that shine in very peculiar ways for specific combos.



Etched Monstrosity is bad even in Commander, because a) it can only be played in a 5 color deck because of its color identity, and b) Kozilek, Butcher of truth is bigger, draws more cards, AND has Annihilator, all for the same mana cost once all is said and done. It's only good in Limited because a 5/5 for 5 colorless is a little bit above curve, but you're never going to be able to use its ability (5 colors in Limited is a recipe for DISASTER).

But yes, just because a card isn't Standard-constructable doesn't preclude it from being useful in other formats.


----------



## Asrial

I have to defend Etched Monstrosity a bit here, as I figured I'd run a white/green phyrexia "beatdown" deck. Goldfishing, I've always found myself at place to get him off at 6th or 7th round, 11th at worst. Even though he's worse than Kozilek (which is a card I'm convinced about I seriously NEED), I can't help but like his ability to be softcast.

He just needs a specific kind of deck with tons of land fetching... and a rarity downgrade. He'd fit to be nothing more than an uncommon. Mythic rare is a joke.


----------



## tacotiklah

I looked that card up and it seems like Etched Monstrosity is only most useful in a completely colorless/artifact deck. I wonder how the would work out?


----------



## Xaios

ghstofperdition said:


> I looked that card up and it seems like Etched Monstrosity is only most useful in a completely colorless/artifact deck. I wonder how the would work out?



Badly. As a vanilla creature he's simply not good enough to be constructable, and Standard doesn't currently support the 5 color manabases required to use his ability.


----------



## devolutionary

Xaios said:


> Etched Monstrosity is bad even in Commander, because a) it can only be played in a 5 color deck because of its color identity, and b) Kozilek, Butcher of truth is bigger, draws more cards, AND has Annihilator, all for the same mana cost once all is said and done. It's only good in Limited because a 5/5 for 5 colorless is a little bit above curve, but you're never going to be able to use its ability (5 colors in Limited is a recipe for DISASTER).
> 
> But yes, just because a card isn't Standard-constructable doesn't preclude it from being useful in other formats.



Your argument is much like saying Dark Banishing is bad because Doom Blade is cheaper, or Counterspell is bad because Rewind is free.

Kozilek also has no artifact synergy. I can think of a few decks where he might show up (5c Artifacts primarily, where things like Kaleidostone or the like can turn up). You can't call a card awful in a singleton format because there's a better card. Kozilek is also an instantaneous target - people will ace him as soon as they can. I agree he's not superb, and I wouldn't use him myself in Commander, but I can see where people might do so.


----------



## Xaios

devolutionary said:


> Your argument is much like saying Dark Banishing is bad because Doom Blade is cheaper, or Counterspell is bad because Rewind is free.



Your argument ignores the fact of card effeciency. Dark Banishing, for what it does, is not an inefficient card. While I wouldn't play either of them in EDH personally because neither of them do enough to justify running, Dark Banishing is still relatively efficient.

The same applies for Counterspell: it's an extremely efficient spell, even though it's strictly worse than Mana Drain (which, for the record, is a much better comparison).

Etched Monstrosity is not at all efficient. If you can't use it's ability, it's basically a Craw Wurm, which is fine for limited, but quite bad in EDH.



devolutionary said:


> Kozilek also has no artifact synergy. I can think of a few decks where he might show up (5c Artifacts primarily, where things like Kaleidostone or the like can turn up). You can't call a card awful in a singleton format because there's a better card. Kozilek is also an instantaneous target - people will ace him as soon as they can. I agree he's not superb, and I wouldn't use him myself in Commander, but I can see where people might do so.



Something tells me your Commander metagame isn't as competitive as mine...

Your argument is correct from a conceptual, theoretical point of view. However, in practice, it falls apart. You're arguing that it would be good in a 5 color artifact deck. Unfortunately, 5 color artifacts is not a viable arthetype. Artifacts as a whole kind of defeat the point of having to use all 5 colors of mana to have to use them to work. The generals that run principally artifact themes are as follows:

- Sharuum the Hegemon
- Arcum Dagsson
- Slobad, Goblin Tinkerer
- Bosh, Iron Golem
- Memnarch
- Hanna, Ship's Navigator
- Glissa, the Traitor
- Reaper King
- Karn, Silver Golem
- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer

Of all those generals, Reaper King is the only one who could even have Etched Monstrosity in the deck, but there would be no reason to, because Reaper King is a "build around me" general who requires other scarecrows to be used. Sure, you can use Conspiracy and/or Xenograft to turn all your creatures into scarecrows, but at that point you'd be better off using more effecient creatures with better tribal synergies, such as allies and slivers.

So, what other 5C generals does that leave us?

- Atogatog
- Child of Alara
- Cromat
- Horde of Notions
- Karona, False God
- Progenitus
- Scion of the Ur-Dragon
- Sliver Legion
- Sliver Overlord
- Sliver Queen.

Atogatog, Horde of Notions, Karona, Scion of the Ur-Dragon and all the legendary slivers are all tribal generals. That leaves only Child of Alara, Cromat and Progenitus, who all have absolutely no synergy whatsoever with artifact creatures. Sure, you can build with an artifact theme, but even then, you're neutering yourself. It's not that there are only a few better options than Etched Monstrosity. It's that there are *a LOT* of better options.

But let's say you do end up building a 5 color artifact deck. If you cast Etched Monstrosity before you have enough mana to use his ability the same turn, anyone that's not a moron is going to realize "hey, he's got mana of each color, he's probably going to use his ability next turn!" At that point, he's going to get removed. But even if he doesn't, and you get to draw your 3 cards, you're left with a 10/10 that does sweet bugger all. He doesn't trample, so he gets chump blocked by tokens and small utility creatures all day long. He doesn't have lifelink. He doesn't do anything when he attacks.

He's a big dumb beater that can only be played with 11 generals in the whole game, none of which have any synergy with him. All he does is draw cards, and he sucks at that too.

I'm quite aware of the fact that you can't discount a card in EDH just because it's not the best at what it does. But Etched Monstrosity is terrible at everything it does.


----------



## Nile

Xaios said:


>



You tore the shit out of Etched Monstrocity. 


He would be slightly less shit if he had hexproof or shroud, then he is at least a kind of sleeper card that isn't so easy to kill.


----------



## Nile

So, any suggestions what I should make with Sol Rings? Because my friend is letting me use it in my casual playgroup, saying it isn't that bad and that it isn't even that good in artifact (which is my favorite deck).


----------



## TraceXCOBHCX

Etched Monstrosity? Why the **** is he even a mythic? Lol, grats on the sword pull though


----------



## Xaios

Nile said:


> So, any suggestions what I should make with Sol Rings? Because my friend is letting me use it in my casual playgroup, saying it isn't that bad and that it isn't even that good in artifact (which is my favorite deck).



Seedborn Muses, Unwinding Clocks, Quicksilver Amulets, Summoning Traps, Coalition Relics, Grim Monoliths, Basalt Monoliths and big gigantic fatties.


----------



## Nile

Xaios said:


> Seedborn Muses, Unwinding Clocks, Quicksilver Amulets, Summoning Traps, Coalition Relics, Grim Monoliths, Basalt Monoliths and big gigantic fatties.



Don't forget the Mana Vaults. 

I was tempted to make a kind of MUD deck.


----------



## Xaios

Nile said:


> Don't forget the Mana Vaults.
> 
> I was tempted to make a kind of MUD deck.



Ah yes, good catch.


----------



## ShadowFactoryX

ok, so Ravnica was a big deal for me, and now that it's coming back, i've been spending a lot of time (and some money again) getting back into things.
I'm not really thrilled about the stuff i've missed since that block, just a few cards here and there, and some land really

i'm so far detached from standard play, that I really dont have any desire to come back, but...

out of curiosity, what kinda decks are most people running in standard these days?
keep in mind, im not up to date with what exactly is in standard

all i know is the new mirrodin block was a letdown compared to the orginal


----------



## Slayer89

Here's a good idea of Standard currently.


----------



## ShadowFactoryX

there's some pretty cool stuff there
though it seems like most of these decks are slower, and take a few turns to set up different combos

i always remember standard being brutally fast


----------



## Brill

I'm thinking of getting into magic. I have a crap ton of friends who play it and hold torments..
From what my friend explained to me (Very little) I am thinking of starting out with a white/black deck.
Anyone got tips and stuff for building a white/black deck? and just tips in general?


----------



## Asrial

^White/black is unusual, but pretty doable, since they are enemy colors (white spells often target black cards and vise versa).

If you really want the black/white, they just put out the "sole domination" exalted-style intro-deck, but it might be smarter to reconsider your choice of color, go with an event deck and take it from there on out.


----------



## caskettheclown

I built a deck a red deck around jinxed idol.

Since a lot of creatures "sacrifice at the end step" it'll be funny. Also have some act of treason in there as well a flings.

this deck isn't meant to be serious by any means though.


----------



## Nile

Who can give me some ideas/decklists for cheap Duel/Multiplayer game decks?

Shits gotten pretty stale.


----------



## Asrial

What kind of multiplayer are you looking at? Because there's TONS of deck possibilities here.

Tailored towards EDH? Standard singleton? Archenemy/Planechase?
I'd say you should aim towards something along the lines of a colored myr swarm deck. Myr-cards, at least in my area, costs 40c a piece, max 5$ for the biggest and baddest one, and the color is just to give some leeway. I don't know your card collection, so I don't know what mega awesome cards you got on stock or anything.


----------



## Slayer89

Nile said:


> Who can give me some ideas/decklists for cheap Duel/Multiplayer game decks?
> 
> Shits gotten pretty stale.



Yeah, I don't play multiplayer too often but need a good list for the rare occasion I do. Last time I did we all sat down around the table and I grabbed my then Standard deck, Pyromancer Ascension. First thought, "I don't have enough bolts to kill 4 people!" haha


----------



## Nile

Asrial said:


> What kind of multiplayer are you looking at? Because there's TONS of deck possibilities here.
> 
> Tailored towards EDH? Standard singleton? Archenemy/Planechase?
> I'd say you should aim towards something along the lines of a colored myr swarm deck. Myr-cards, at least in my area, costs 40c a piece, max 5$ for the biggest and baddest one, and the color is just to give some leeway. I don't know your card collection, so I don't know what mega awesome cards you got on stock or anything.



Just 2HG and occasional free for all.


----------



## ittoa666

I've been getting pretty lucky with M13 packs. First I pulled a Sublime and Nocturnus at prerelease, and now an ajani.


----------



## caskettheclown

ittoa666 said:


> I've been getting pretty lucky with M13 packs. First I pulled a Sublime and Nocturnus at prerelease, and now an ajani.



I bet your decks are loving those!


----------



## ittoa666

caskettheclown said:


> I bet your decks are loving those!



I actually haven't put them in any decks, but I do plan on making an exalted deck when I get my m13 box.


----------



## Nile

ittoa666 said:


> I actually haven't put them in any decks, but I do plan on making an exalted deck when I get my m13 box.



Look towards the cards from Shards of Alara and around there for more Exalted based things. If you didn't know.


----------



## ittoa666

Nile said:


> Look towards the cards from Shards of Alara and around there for more Exalted based things. If you didn't know.



I know there have been reprints, but I'm talking strictly standard.


----------



## Nile

ittoa666 said:


> I know there have been reprints, but I'm talking strictly standard.



Didn't even know they reprinted any of them lol.


----------



## caskettheclown

Just pulled a grave titan and a sun titan! Gonna trade them in for some stuff for the misses though.


----------



## Daemoniac

I need to pick up an M13 fat pack I think... Haven't got anything yet


----------



## Nile

Daemoniac said:


> I need to pick up an M13 fat pack I think... Haven't got anything yet



I guarantee you you don't want a fat pack.












Get a booster case.


----------



## Daemoniac

Booster boxes are ok, but I always need more lands, and 9 boosters is generally enough for me to get some random shit, then the rest I'll just buy individually anyway.


----------



## Xaios

How many basic lands could you possibly need? I've got more basic lands than I know what to do with. I've even sold some back to the store where I buy cards, because they're constantly needing them for drafts. Plus I've got at least 15 foils of each basic land type, including about 40 foil forests, 18 of them old-bordered.


----------



## Daemoniac

I think you're overestimating how many I have, and underestimating how many decks I plan on building


----------



## Xaios

Possibly. I myself probably have well over a thousand basic lands, far more than I know what to do with.

I guarantee you know someone who's got more than they need, though, if you play at an FNM. They'd probably give them to you for free.


----------



## ShadowFactoryX

the days of me buying boxes, cases, packs are long gone

what in gods name do i want with a slew of land, commons and uncommons that ill never use

now that im coming back into it, im putting money into specific playsets of good stuff that i'll actually use


----------



## Nile

ShadowFactoryX said:


> the days of me buying boxes, cases, packs are long gone
> 
> what in gods name do i want with a slew of land, commons and uncommons that ill never use
> 
> now that im coming back into it, im putting money into specific playsets of good stuff that i'll actually use



In all reality, this. Why drop a shit ton of money on quite a few packs to get just a few of the cards you really wanted when you could pay less and just buy them.


----------



## Xaios

Nile said:


> In all reality, this. Why drop a shit ton of money on quite a few packs to get just a few of the cards you really wanted when you could pay less and just buy them.



Sometimes yes, sometimes no. I've laid off a bit myself as of late too, but a playset of Cavern of Souls is worth $120 these days, more than the price of a box. If you want playsets of the best Standard-playable cards, be prepared to shell out a ton of money, whether it be on boxes or singles.


----------



## Nile

Xaios said:


> Sometimes yes, sometimes no. I've laid off a bit myself as of late too, but a playset of Cavern of Souls is worth $120 these days, more than the price of a box. If you want playsets of the best Standard-playable cards, be prepared to shell out a ton of money, whether it be on boxes or singles.



True. Standard is where it will really fuck you for prices. Packs are better if you play Standard.


----------



## caskettheclown

Got complete set of commons and uncommons for innistrad and m12 core set. 4 of each card. Got them for cheap too!


----------



## Daemoniac

Xaios said:


> Possibly. I myself probably have well over a thousand basic lands, far more than I know what to do with.
> 
> I guarantee you know someone who's got more than they need, though, if you play at an FNM. They'd probably give them to you for free.



Yeah I have around 120 spares, mostly swamps. Don't know anyone who has heaps though, I'm not that social 



ShadowFactoryX said:


> the days of me buying boxes, cases, packs are long gone
> 
> what in gods name do i want with a slew of land, commons and uncommons that ill never use
> 
> now that im coming back into it, im putting money into specific playsets of good stuff that i'll actually use



For me it's part of the fun. I mean yes, there are certain decks that happen out of design and wanting certain cards, but a good number of decks I've played with have been made out of bits and pieces from boosters - it's just fun to do


----------



## Xaios

Nile said:


> True. Standard is where it will really fuck you for prices. Packs are better if you play Standard.



Never try Legacy.


----------



## ShadowFactoryX

^

im still lost on all these new formats though, ive heard commander has made certain commons and uncommons retarded expensive.

in more recent news, i was missing two hallowed fountains and 3 blood crypts from all the ravnica block duals, so i finally hit those up, and i've managed to get myself some noble heirarchs, and a few of the newer dual land type stuff.

seems like they're pumping these cards into standard to make way for the new ravnica stuff
multicolor is still my forte, cant wait for more.


----------



## Xaios

ShadowFactoryX said:


> ^
> 
> im still lost on all these new formats though, ive heard commander has made certain commons and uncommons retarded expensive.
> 
> in more recent news, i was missing two hallowed fountains and 3 blood crypts from all the ravnica block duals, so i finally hit those up, and i've managed to get myself some noble heirarchs, and a few of the newer dual land type stuff.
> 
> seems like they're pumping these cards into standard to make way for the new ravnica stuff
> multicolor is still my forte, cant wait for more.



Uh, they didn't reprint Noble Hierarch. Doubt that they will either, being as it's an Exalted card, so that ship kinda sailed when it didn't get printed in M13.

As far as Commander, as far as commons and uncommons go, it doesn't affect the price that much, considering you only need one of a given card. It's affected the price of certain rares more, such as Doubling Season and Tooth and Nail. It *can* affect the price of certain foil common/uncommon staples. For example, a foil Kodama's Reach is worth about $10, and a foil Expedition Map is worth about $8. There are some older cards, such as the obvious Mana Drain and Force of Will that, while played in Commander, get their value from Vintage and Legacy. There are also some older cards that are powerful enough to be rares, even though they're not, such as all the old Tutor cards and things like Sterling Grove.


----------



## Nile

Xaios said:


> Never try Legacy.



I know this. Buying the staples in Legacy would be cheaper than buying all the packs to get the needed cards is what I'm saying for Legacy. Opposite for Standard.


----------



## ShadowFactoryX

Xaios said:


> Uh, they didn't reprint Noble Hierarch. Doubt that they will either, being as it's an Exalted card, so that ship kinda sailed when it didn't get printed in M13.
> 
> As far as Commander, as far as commons and uncommons go, it doesn't affect the price that much, considering you only need one of a given card. It's affected the price of certain rares more, such as Doubling Season and Tooth and Nail. It *can* affect the price of certain foil common/uncommon staples. For example, a foil Kodama's Reach is worth about $10, and a foil Expedition Map is worth about $8. There are some older cards, such as the obvious Mana Drain and Force of Will that, while played in Commander, get their value from Vintage and Legacy. There are also some older cards that are powerful enough to be rares, even though they're not, such as all the old Tutor cards and things like Sterling Grove.



Noooo, i meant in the dual lands, not noble heirarch, my bad for the lack of clarity.
im quite well aware of all the old stuff though


----------



## Asrial

Nile said:


> Just 2HG and occasional free for all.



Sorry, still need to know some boundaries, like what cards you have etc.
Also, been on vac, hence my late response.

Also, I went with some friends to a magic-shop to get him some cards. I bought a good 25'ish boosters from the 2 latest blocks, and suddenly we see the shop is carrying the event decks that's first supposed to be released today.
Of course we bought a deck. And it's wild. 

Beyond that, all of us, even the one that only bought like 4 boosters, had awesome card pulls. Besides us all drawing Odric, Nefarox and Krenko (which was my own pull), I actually managed to get an Avacyn.

Oh yeah, and everybody but me got dual-lands. 
Oh well, shocklands incoming anyway.


----------



## Nile

Asrial said:


> Sorry, still need to know some boundaries, like what cards you have etc.



I'm buying them. Hence why I need suggestions of what decks to make that are affordable and I guess fun, because people already call my decks boring and unfun and overpowered.


----------



## Asrial

^As said, try to look into myr decks. This might be of personal bias, but I really really love artifacts. So, get some artifacts, some myr, and this:





Now THAT is overpowered!


----------



## Xaios

It's worth noting that Tinker is banned in every format that it can be, and restricted in Vintage (only because the only cards that are banned in Vintage are manual dexterity cards such as Chaos Orb, or cards that involve ante). If you're looking to make a "fun" deck, do your best to make it "fun" for everyone involved. Tinkering on turn 2 for a Blightsteel Colossus (or an Inkwell Leviathan, if you're playing against white) is just too far. The best alternate version of that effect is Transmute Artifact, which is a bit more fair.


----------



## Asrial

Blightsteel colossus is the only card I actually find stupid. It's a legit strategy, but even I wouldn't play such a card. Hilarious, but stupid and cheap.


----------



## ittoa666

Got some Jap packs and pulled a Thundermaw. Color me happy.


----------



## caskettheclown

ittoa666 said:


> Got some Jap packs and pulled a Thundermaw. Color me happy.



Where do you get jap packs at?

On another note, I bought the "political puppets" EDH precon deck. Figured it was the easiest way to start EDH but i'm modifying it to make it a five colored deck.


----------



## Xaios

caskettheclown said:


> Where do you get jap packs at?
> 
> On another note, I bought the "political puppets" EDH precon deck. Figured it was the easiest way to start EDH but i'm modifying it to make it a five colored deck.



Who are you going to use as a general?


----------



## caskettheclown

Xaios said:


> Who are you going to use as a general?



Don't have one at the moment but i'm looking for child of Alara. Till I can find it i'll just use Fusion Elemental, its not a legendary but its just for playtest purposes till I get child of alara.


Any tips for commander deckbuilding btw? This is my first time building/modifying one. I've played commander only a couple times with the store owners deck and had a blast.

ALSO picked up an It that Betrays and a Sheoldred the Whispering one for my reanimator 

Reanimator = <3


----------



## Xaios

caskettheclown said:


> Don't have one at the moment but i'm looking for child of Alara. Till I can find it i'll just use Fusion Elemental, its not a legendary but its just for playtest purposes till I get child of alara.
> 
> 
> Any tips for commander deckbuilding btw? This is my first time building/modifying one. I've played commander only a couple times with the store owners deck and had a blast.
> 
> ALSO picked up an It that Betrays and a Sheoldred the Whispering one for my reanimator
> 
> Reanimator = <3



Child of Alara is a pretty oddball Commander, because of he dies and you decide to return him to the command zone, his ability which destroys all other permanents doesn't trigger. If you let him hit the graveyard so that his ability does trigger, then you can't recast him from the yard.

If you can get your hands on one, I'd get a Cromat. He's the 5 color general that has the least requirement for you to build around him.

As far as general advice, some things to consider:
- Be mindful of your mana curve, similar to any other format. Nothing sucks more than getting screwed at 3 mana when every card in your hand requires 4+ mana to cast.
- Don't skimp on spot removal. A lot of commander players complain about people going off on infinite combos. The fact is though, most infinite combos that you'll run into are completely disruptable with a piece of will timed spot removal.
- The balance between the number of cards in your deck that are threats on their own and threats in conjunction with other cards isn't easy to master. You always need to be able to apply pressure. It won't do you any good to have 50 different cards that combo with Reveillark if you can't find your Reveillark.
- Don't get greedy, and don't overextend. Having a Blightsteel Colossus in your deck is an invitation for it to get Bribery'd or Acquired. Having a 40 dual land mana base is an invitation for the mono-red player to blow you out with Blood Moon, Ruination or Price of Progress. Running a 40-Forest mono-green ramp deck is an invitation to get blown out by Wake of Destruction. Windmill slamming all the creatures in your hand onto the board in one turn is an invitation to have them nuked by a well timed Wrath of God. If you make yourself a threat, people will treat you as such in a multiplayer game.
- Be mindful of your opponents' graveyards. Reanimator is a popular archetype in EDH. It never hurts to run a Tormod's Crypt, Relic of Progenitus or Leyline of the Void.
- Play the players as much as the game. Politics plays a huge part in EDH. If you blow everyone out of the water in one EDH game, chances are that they'll be gunning for you next game. And even if you play a deck that is subtley powerful, people will eventually catch on if you keep winning with it.
- Mix it up. Half the fun of EDH is deckbuilding, finding crazy card interactions. Relish it.


----------



## caskettheclown

Xaios said:


> Child of Alara is a pretty oddball Commander, because of he dies and you decide to return him to the command zone, his ability which destroys all other permanents doesn't trigger. If you let him hit the graveyard so that his ability does trigger, then you can't recast him from the yard.
> 
> If you can get your hands on one, I'd get a Cromat. He's the 5 color general that has the least requirement for you to build around him.
> 
> As far as general advice, some things to consider:
> - Be mindful of your mana curve, similar to any other format. Nothing sucks more than getting screwed at 3 mana when every card in your hand requires 4+ mana to cast.
> - Don't skimp on spot removal. A lot of commander players complain about people going off on infinite combos. The fact is though, most infinite combos that you'll run into are completely disruptable with a piece of will timed spot removal.
> - The balance between the number of cards in your deck that are threats on their own and threats in conjunction with other cards isn't easy to master. You always need to be able to apply pressure. It won't do you any good to have 50 different cards that combo with Reveillark if you can't find your Reveillark.
> - Don't get greedy, and don't overextend. Having a Blightsteel Colossus in your deck is an invitation for it to get Bribery'd or Acquired. Having a 40 dual land mana base is an invitation for the mono-red player to blow you out with Blood Moon, Ruination or Price of Progress. Running a 40-Forest mono-green ramp deck is an invitation to get blown out by Wake of Destruction. Windmill slamming all the creatures in your hand onto the board in one turn is an invitation to have them nuked by a well timed Wrath of God. If you make yourself a threat, people will treat you as such in a multiplayer game.
> - Be mindful of your opponents' graveyards. Reanimator is a popular archetype in EDH. It never hurts to run a Tormod's Crypt, Relic of Progenitus or Leyline of the Void.
> - Play the players as much as the game. Politics plays a huge part in EDH. If you blow everyone out of the water in one EDH game, chances are that they'll be gunning for you next game. And even if you play a deck that is subtley powerful, people will eventually catch on if you keep winning with it.
> - Mix it up. Half the fun of EDH is deckbuilding, finding crazy card interactions. Relish it.




I plan on doing a bit of reanimating as well. I have a soft spot for it so it won't be completely horrible if Child of Alara hits the graveyard.

The General has to be a legendary correct? 

Also I am thinking of just taking green out of the equation all together and running the rest of the colors. Any idea for a general for those colors?


----------



## Xaios

caskettheclown said:


> I plan on doing a bit of reanimating as well. I have a soft spot for it so it won't be completely horrible if Child of Alara hits the graveyard.
> 
> The General has to be a legendary correct?



Yes.



caskettheclown said:


> Also I am thinking of just taking green out of the equation all together and running the rest of the colors. Any idea for a general for those colors?



I wouldn't advocate that, especially if you plan to be doing some reanimating. Green gives you access to Genesis, Eternal Witness, Karador, Teneb... basically some of the best recursion tools in the game, especially if you plan on having Child of Alara hit the yard. Additionally, green gives you your color fixing, such as Cultivate, Kodama's Reach, Explosive Vegetation, and Primeval Titan, which you'll need if you plan on running 5 colors without a $1,500 mana base.

Also, there are no four color legendary creatures. It jumps straight from 3 to 5. The only 4 color creatures ever printed were the Nephilim from Ravnica block, and those weren't legendary.


----------



## ittoa666

caskettheclown said:


> Where do you get jap packs at?
> 
> On another note, I bought the "political puppets" EDH precon deck. Figured it was the easiest way to start EDH but i'm modifying it to make it a five colored deck.



My local shop usually has a box of the newest core set up for grabs until they sell out. Just look on ebay for a box.


----------



## Nile

Asrial said:


> ^As said, try to look into myr decks. This might be of personal bias, but I really really love artifacts. So, get some artifacts, some myr, and this:
> Now THAT is overpowered!



I actually have a kind of myr deck made for casual that is kind of sitting in my cart waiting to be bought.


I also own two Tinker, and I usually pull Myr Battlesphere or Platinum Angel out of my crappy artifact deck with it. Moving away from using it though, because I generally win if I use it.


----------



## Nile

*Advise welcome on these two decks.* (I most often play multiplayer so suggestions for cards that would help these two decks in multiplayer would be awesome, cause then I could switch out cards to make these work in multiplayer instead of the 1v1 kind of format their in atm.)

*Myr:*
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
2 Myr Battlesphere
4 Myr Galvanizer
4 Gold Myr
4 Palladium Myr
3 Myr Reservoir
4 Silver Myr
2 Coat of Arms
1 Myr Turbine
4 Fabricate
8 Island
4 Lodestone Myr
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Myr Superion
2 Iron Myr
1 Steel Overseer
1 Myr Matrix
SB: 1 Everflowing Chalice (as a maybe, probably not needed lol.)

*Artifact:*
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Dispatch
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Ancient Den
3 Springleaf Drum
4 Memnite
4 Ornithopter
4 Thoughtcast
2 Mox Opal
4 Cranial Plating
4 Signal Pest
2 Island
4 Plains
4 Etched Champion
2 Ponder
4 Vault Skirge
3 Tempered Steel

Also, help with a thopter-blade deck would be awesome, because I love the interactions between Thopter Foundry and Sword of the Meek.

(This seems like a lot to ask on a guitar forum for a card game. )


----------



## caskettheclown

Xaios said:


> Yes.
> 
> 
> 
> I wouldn't advocate that, especially if you plan to be doing some reanimating. Green gives you access to Genesis, Eternal Witness, Karador, Teneb... basically some of the best recursion tools in the game, especially if you plan on having Child of Alara hit the yard. Additionally, green gives you your color fixing, such as Cultivate, Kodama's Reach, Explosive Vegetation, and Primeval Titan, which you'll need if you plan on running 5 colors without a $1,500 mana base.
> 
> Also, there are no four color legendary creatures. It jumps straight from 3 to 5. The only 4 color creatures ever printed were the Nephilim from Ravnica block, and those weren't legendary.




Well damn. Looks like ill stick to five colors then. Thanks for the advice


----------



## Xaios

Nile said:


> *Advise welcome on these two decks.* (I most often play multiplayer so suggestions for cards that would help these two decks in multiplayer would be awesome, cause then I could switch out cards to make these work in multiplayer instead of the 1v1 kind of format their in atm.)
> 
> *Myr:*
> 4 Cloudpost
> 4 Glimmerpost
> 2 Myr Battlesphere
> 4 Myr Galvanizer
> 4 Gold Myr
> 4 Palladium Myr
> 3 Myr Reservoir
> 4 Silver Myr
> 2 Coat of Arms
> 1 Myr Turbine
> 4 Fabricate
> 8 Island
> 4 Lodestone Myr
> 4 Seat of the Synod
> 4 Myr Superion
> 2 Iron Myr
> 1 Steel Overseer
> 1 Myr Matrix
> SB: 1 Everflowing Chalice (as a maybe, probably not needed lol.)
> 
> *Artifact:*
> 4 Darksteel Citadel
> 4 Dispatch
> 4 Seat of the Synod
> 4 Ancient Den
> 3 Springleaf Drum
> 4 Memnite
> 4 Ornithopter
> 4 Thoughtcast
> 2 Mox Opal
> 4 Cranial Plating
> 4 Signal Pest
> 2 Island
> 4 Plains
> 4 Etched Champion
> 2 Ponder
> 4 Vault Skirge
> 3 Tempered Steel
> 
> Also, help with a thopter-blade deck would be awesome, because I love the interactions between Thopter Foundry and Sword of the Meek.
> 
> (This seems like a lot to ask on a guitar forum for a card game. )



Get some Vesuvas into that deck with Cloudposts and Glimmerposts, and you'll be on your way to making a 12 Post deck.


----------



## Nile

Xaios said:


> Get some Vesuvas into that deck with Cloudposts and Glimmerposts, and you'll be on your way to making a 12 Post deck.



Roughly $45 for a playset? Spendy lol. I know I need those, just didn't add it because I was testing a cheaper version of the deck.

Anything about the deck though?


----------



## Brill

Running a blue/black Unblockable deck with infect as an added defense. What are some artifacts that give double strike that are still in standard? ( I need them to go with my Trepanation blades)


----------



## Nile

Loxodrome said:


> Running a blue/black Unblockable deck with infect as an added defense. What are some artifacts that give double strike that are still in standard? ( I need them to go with my Trepanation blades)



I don't think there is any double strike equips in standard. Sword of War and Peace can get in extra damage though.


----------



## Slayer89

I think the best you'll get is Runechanter's Pike. Not doublestrike, but with enough instants/sorceries it can turned an unblocked infect guy into a one hit kill pretty easily.


----------



## caskettheclown

Got a "political puppets" commander deck for 10 bucks at wal mart! Already got one so I might try and sell it for singles


----------



## Asrial

Okay, this thread is bumped, so might as well share some FNM FML.

18 people showed up for this night, rather standard. We group up in 6-man-tables to start the drafting. The first packs, my table only, all contained this:
2x Ajani (1 was foil), 2x Liliana (1 was foil), 1x Primordial hydra, 1x Foil akromas memorial, and 1x Battle of wits. Believe it or not, the hydra and the foil Ajani was in the same pack. And my pack was the Battle of wits-one. One of my friends then pulls a foil Nefarox, a Chandra and a couple of dual lands, while my other friend pulls 3. Stonking. Akromas. And a sublime angel.
The shop attendees that also fought along each won 3rd and 2nd respectively, and got another Ajani, a Vampire nocturnus and a ton of dual lands.
My friend with the Akromas then decides to buy 4 booster packs to make up for his lack of luck in the battles. Lo and behold; ANOTHER LILIANA.
That was by far my most demotivating and jawdropping moment in my MtG history ever.


----------



## Brill

Currently making a golem/splicer deck... What do blade splicers retail for? Cause only one guy has them...


----------



## Nile

Loxodrome said:


> Currently making a golem/splicer deck... What do blade splicers retail for? Cause only one guy has them...



Channel Fireball -


----------



## Xaios

Asrial said:


> Okay, this thread is bumped, so might as well share some FNM FML.
> 
> 18 people showed up for this night, rather standard. We group up in 6-man-tables to start the drafting. The first packs, my table only, all contained this:
> 2x Ajani (1 was foil), 2x Liliana (1 was foil), 1x Primordial hydra, 1x Foil akromas memorial, and 1x Battle of wits. Believe it or not, the hydra and the foil Ajani was in the same pack. And my pack was the Battle of wits-one. One of my friends then pulls a foil Nefarox, a Chandra and a couple of dual lands, while my other friend pulls 3. Stonking. Akromas. And a sublime angel.
> The shop attendees that also fought along each won 3rd and 2nd respectively, and got another Ajani, a Vampire nocturnus and a ton of dual lands.
> My friend with the Akromas then decides to buy 4 booster packs to make up for his lack of luck in the battles. Lo and behold; ANOTHER LILIANA.
> That was by far my most demotivating and jawdropping moment in my MtG history ever.



I've seen some pretty retarded draft pools before, but that's just beyond insane. Crappy about getting the Battle of Wits, dude.

My local store alternates between draft and standard for FNM. Two weeks ago, I pulled an Ajani. Pulled another one last night. 

(Card is an absolute beast in draft, by the way. It single-handedly won me a couple games last night.)


----------



## Slayer89

I swear if I ever get a Battle of the Wits in a limited pool I'm sticking it with 230 Islands, and other blue cards/artifacts, and mulliganing like a mofo, haha. It'd be terrible, but awesome.

Anywho, I've quit standard for the time being and I think I'm gonna put together Heartbeat combo in Modern for fun.


----------



## Xaios

New goodies spoiled last night!












This is going straight into my Ghave EDH deck:

























This will be big in 3-5 colored EDH decks, possibly even replacing Coalition Relic as the defacto color fixer:





And yes...

*SHOCKLANDS!*





They're reprinting the shocklands for White/Blue, White/Green, Green/Black, Black/Red and Blue/Red in Return to Ravnica. The remaining 5 will follow in Gatecrash.


----------



## Slayer89

Just put together BR Zombies, so Blood Crypt will be a welcome addition to my mana base replacing the Blackcleave Cliffs.

Also, grabbed a random pack at Target today. Pulled a foil Bonfire. I was preeeeetty happy, lol.


----------



## Nile

Slayer89 said:


> Just put together BR Zombies, so Blood Crypt will be a welcome addition to my mana base replacing the Blackcleave Cliffs.
> 
> Also, grabbed a random pack at Target today. Pulled a foil Bonfire. I was preeeeetty happy, lol.



I'd sell that or trade it if i were you, that's worth a pretty fucking penny. Could get like 2 more bonfires with that.


----------



## Nile

I was giddy like a preteen school girl when they unveiled the shocklands.

New Jace is trash to put it bluntly.

I'm thinking I'll try a GW token deck for Standard. If not, be a controlly mofo and run BR and maybe something else.


----------



## Xaios

Not quite actually. On SCG, regular Bonfire sells for $50, while a foil sells for $70. It's quite difficult to tell where the value of that card will go, especially with rotation right around the corner.


----------



## Xaios

Nile said:


> New Jace is trash to put it bluntly.



Don't be too sure. He's got an ability that protects himself, and his -2 ability is a mini-Fact or Fiction each turn, which is actually quite strong. Also, you can't evaluate based on the current meta, as rotation is right around the corner and we're going to be losing a huge amount of cards from the pool.

Is he the new JTMS? Obviously not. However, he may be on par with Jace Beleren, who's no slouch.


----------



## Nile

Xaios said:


> Don't be too sure. He's got an ability that protects himself, and his -2 ability is a mini-Fact or Fiction each turn, which is actually quite strong. Also, you can't evaluate based on the current meta, as rotation is right around the corner and we're going to be losing a huge amount of cards from the pool.
> 
> Is he the new JTMS? Obviously not. However, he may be on par with Jace Beleren, who's no slouch.



First ability is a good idea to give the planeswalker itself protection, but at only -1 it really isn't that much. Second ability is decent imo. I can just see him being a decent card and nothing more unless something works with him. 

And forget about even getting to that last ability with it only being +1.


----------



## Xaios

Nile said:


> First ability is a good idea to give the planeswalker itself protection, but at only -1 it really isn't that much. Second ability is decent imo. I can just see him being a decent card and nothing more unless something works with him.
> 
> And forget about even getting to that last ability with it only being +1.



Again though, you're trying to evaluate it based on the current meta, which doesn't work. For all we know, that -1 could be a big deal.

Also, don't be too sure about people never using the ultimate. Plenty of people have blown off Elspeth, Knight-Errant's ultimate before, and she had the same starting loyalty and increments as the new Jace.


----------



## Nile

Xaios said:


> Again though, you're trying to evaluate it based on the current meta, which doesn't work. For all we know, that -1 could be a big deal.
> 
> Also, don't be too sure about people never using the ultimate. Plenty of people have blown off Elspeth, Knight-Errant's ultimate before, and she had the same starting loyalty and increments as the new Jace.



Actually I don't know if I'm being dumb or smart about it, but I'm not evaluating it in any meta for any format, just as a card itself.


----------



## Xaios

No card can be evaluated in a vacuum. For example, when Hero of Bladehold came out, it saw practically no play because it didn't pass "the Jace test," like many cards at the time. When Jace got banned, suddenly it was a powerhouse.


----------



## Asrial

I have an ambivalent view on the new Jace. His two first abilities are meh, but, especially in multiplayer formats, his ultimate is broken. You could easily hide an omniscience in your deck or some other insane card intended for the purpose, like Progenitus, Child of Alara, titans, Emrakul etc, and then proceed to bash face.

Chromatic lantern is pretty much made for multi-colored decks and is surely going to rock limited. The new Niv is not as awesome compared to the old one though. It's not as abusable. 
But I can imagine if it was just any source of damage, then it would be broken as hell when combined with a Psychosis crawler.


----------



## Xaios

Yeah, I guess the new legends are certainly worth posting:











And another card, simply because it's yet another dead obvious addition to my Ghave EDH deck:





What I'm also curious about is if each guild is going to be getting 2 legends again, like the original Ravnica block. For example, the original Azorius had both Isperia the Inscrutable AND Grand Arbiter Augustin IV. This was the case for every guild, and I hope it's something they repeat.


----------



## ittoa666

I knew RtR was going to be awesome. Can't wait til prerelease.

Also, dreadbore is totally going in my decks. Rakdos and Boros all the way.


----------



## Nile

If you count out the Curiosity combo with old Niv, this new one is better.


----------



## Nile

Xaios said:


> No card can be evaluated in a vacuum. For example, when Hero of Bladehold came out, it saw practically no play because it didn't pass "the Jace test," like many cards at the time. When Jace got banned, suddenly it was a powerhouse.



I stand corrected, I am stupid.

I still don't like him that much though. His first two abilities are indeed meh.


----------



## Xaios

Nile said:


> If you count out the Curiosity combo with old Niv, this new one is better.



Except those combos are what made the original Niv so great in the first place. It's a lot easier to draw cards than it is to have Niz himself do damage to an opponent. The original Niv combo'd with Curiosity, Ophidian Eye, Mind Over Matter and Tandem Lookout to damage your opponent for as much as the number of cards in your library. It also had a whole plethora of support cards, such as Teferi's Puzzlebox, Mindmoil, Memory Jar, Wheel of Fortune-type effects and just about any card that draws lots of cards in one go, which blue is particularly adept at doing.

In a nutshell, the reason why the original Niv-Mizzet was so great is because he could translate card draw directly into damage. He turns a resource into a win condition. The new Niv turns damage into a resource, but without the potential to turn that resource back into damage like the original (it's not a two-way street, alas), he's just not as good.


----------



## Brill

GB counter d3ck seems to be were its at in the new set. To bad my local magic shop is closing the day it comes out...


----------



## ittoa666

I think I'm going to have to invest in at least two boxes of this.


----------



## ittoa666

BG Control anyone?


----------



## Brill

ittoa666 said:


> BG Control anyone?



That is powerful. Id probably run artful douge, or something to nake the 1/1s unblockable.


----------



## caskettheclown

ittoa666 said:


> BG Control anyone?



The third ability can be really good or really bad depending on how you play them. Definitely want.



Instead of making another post i'll just say what I have to say here.

Made a white blue deck with a ton of unblockables and aura's/lifegain as well as Akroma, Elesh Norn, Entreat the angels and Sun Titan. Most fun in a deck to me since my red token burn deck. Definitely having too much fun lately.


----------



## Nile

Holy shit, I want Vraska. That is some major fun right there.


----------



## ShadowFactoryX

im so stoked for this block
its getting me back into the game
i've already pre-ordered a ton of stuff


----------



## Xaios

ittoa666 said:


> BG Control anyone?



Holy balls! 

She honestly might be the best planeswalker since Gideon, with Liliana of the Veil being the only competition for that spot. Interestingly, her and Liliana work beautifully together.

Seriously, her +1 ability is No Mercy for herself, her -2 is a mini Maelstrom Pulse, and her -7 creates baby Phage the Untouchables.


----------



## Asrial

Actually, I'm not that excited for her anymore.

Skill for skill:

+1: It's a do-nothing. Only thing she does is sit and rack up counters while being nuke-able. You'll either let her die to an overrun of tokens (can't block that many) or let her die due to an insane fatty attacking her (a 2/2 plus a decent pump-spell is even enough). She needs tons of babysitting.
-3: Okay, we get a worse vindicate on a stick. That can be quite okay, but is rather costly. Adds some needed utility, but that's about it. Even though it provides another layer of defence, it makes it even harder to pull of an ult from her.
-7: Interesting ult, point for that. But to make it work, you have to establish board dominance, at which point you might as well swing for the kill anyway. If not, you'd have them removed pretty easily by pretty much any removal printed. Ever. Let's not forget Street spasm that can kill them all at instant speed, making it a dead ult. Plus, you could also just block them and take a hit instead? Not like they swing for a ton or anything. If they had deathtouch however... THEN I would be excited for it!

You'll need a real hefty amount of removal to make her do a heck of a lot. I want to like her, but... I just fail to see where she'd fit in besides BG control.


----------



## Xaios

Asrial said:


> Actually, I'm not that excited for her anymore.
> 
> Skill for skill:
> +1: It's a do-nothing. Only thing she does is sit and rack up counters while being nuke-able. You'll either let her die to an overrun of tokens (can't block that many) or let her die due to an insane fatty attacking her (a 2/2 plus a decent pump-spell is even enough). She needs tons of babysitting.
> *Dissuading opponents from attacking her for fear of losing their creatures definitely isn't "do nothing." Even if she doesn't build up to her ultimate, she can threaten to build up several vindicates. The point of the ability, though, is to a) build up her loyalty without fear of reprisal, and b) keep herself alive, which is does admirably well. Even token players don't want to throw away 6 1/1's dealing with one card, which is what they would have to do to kill her, and no one wants to lose their big fatty.*
> 
> -3: Okay, we get a worse vindicate on a stick. That can be quite okay, but is rather costly. Adds some needed utility, but that's about it. Even though it provides another layer of defence, it makes it even harder to pull of an ult from her.
> *While the effect isn't as powerful as vindicate, it's reusable and doesn't kill her to use it in one shot. A 5 mana walker that can come down, kill most any troublesome permanent and then stick around to rebuild OR sucker your opponents into attacking her instead of you is no slouch.*
> 
> -7: Interesting ult, point for that. But to make it work, you have to establish board dominance, at which point you might as well swing for the kill anyway. If not, you'd have them removed pretty easily by pretty much any removal printed. Ever. Let's not forget Street spasm that can kill them all at instant speed, making it a dead ult. Plus, you could also just block them and take a hit instead? Not like they swing for a ton or anything. If they had deathtouch however... THEN I would be excited for it!
> *You're not thinking of the neat possibilities to get that damage through, though. First of all, I doubt Street Spasm will see much play, as it is tremendously inefficient, even if it is an instant. If you want to force it through, there's Champion of Lambholt (which synergizes brilliantly with the tokens coming into play, by the way). And while she is in Golgari colors, she shares green with Selesnya, who's guild mechanic is going to be Populate, which allows more copies of said tokens to be created. With shocklands incoming, tri-colored mana bases are going to be become stupid easy to pull off in conjuction with the M10/Innistrad dual lands, so GWB will be easy to pull off. Or she could become part of a Jund deck which uses the red mana to clear the way for the tokens. Or, the turn after the tokens come in, you can throw down Revenge of the Hunted on one of them, forcing your opponent to block that one token with all his creatures and letting the other two slip by. (I've actually seen Revenge of the Hunted used to great effect lately in mono-green and GR decks, especially in conjunction with Predator Ooze).*



Emphasis mine.



Asrial said:


> You'll need a real hefty amount of removal to make her do a heck of a lot. I want to like her, but... I just fail to see where she'd fit in besides BG control.



Good thing black tends to accel at quality removal. 

I don't think she's the second coming of Jace or anything, but there already promises to be many fascinating ways to use this planeswalker.


----------



## Asrial

I can see why she's good, but I still think her +1 is nothing more than being expensive bait, and her ult being a pain unless building around it.
I like the fact that she's splashable though.


----------



## ittoa666

ShadowFactoryX said:


> im so stoked for this block
> its getting me back into the game
> i've already pre-ordered a ton of stuff



Same here. I went broke a bit before M13 so I'm saving up for RtR. I'm excited to say the least.


----------



## caskettheclown

I think i'll get her because it'll make me build a green black control deck which i've never done before. I'll be saving up a bit to grab either a fat pack or a booster box. Probably a booster box if I can afford it, but I do really want a dice for some reason.


----------



## Nile

Asrial said:


> I can see why she's good, but I still think her +1 is nothing more than being expensive bait, and her ult being a pain unless building around it.
> I like the fact that she's splashable though.



Even if you don't use the ultimate, its a reusable mini Vindicate. Her +1 is better than new Jace's because it will deter the opponent more from attacking her because they might lose their win condition. Her ultimate doesn't need to be exactly built around either. You could drop them, then white/blue/red/black could use any of their staple removal/unblockable/trample and get them through.


I'd hit it.


----------



## ShadowFactoryX

i still have no clue how planeswalkers work (been out of the game since ravncia 1 mind you)

but am i the only one that thinks dryad militant is excellent?


----------



## Brill

Is there any card that lets you keep playing a instant over and over?


----------



## Xaios

Loxodrome said:


> Is there any card that lets you keep playing a instant over and over?



- Snapcaster Mage
- Isochron Scepter
- Dralnu, Lich Lord
- Panoptic Mirror

Granted, giving it Flashback will only allow you to reuse it once.


----------



## Brill

Xaios said:


> - Snapcaster Mage
> - Isochron Scepter
> - Dralnu, Lich Lord
> - Panoptic Mirror
> 
> Granted, giving it Flashback will only allow you to reuse it once.



Thats what i was worried about... So i could only do it flash back? How about returning it to my hand?


----------



## Xaios

Loxodrome said:


> Thats what i was worried about... So i could only do it flash back? How about returning it to my hand?



Yup, that's doable, but there are only so many ways to do that as well.

- Archaeomancer
- Mnemonic Wall
- Anarchist
- Izzet Chronarch
- Mystic Retrieval
- Call to Mind
- Charmbreaker Devils


----------



## Brill

Xaios said:


> Yup, that's doable, but there are only so many ways to do that as well.
> 
> - Archaeomancer
> - Mnemonic Wall
> - Anarchist
> - Izzet Chronarch
> - Mystic Retrieval
> - Call to Mind
> - Charmbreaker Devils



Damn... None of them work either. 8m trying to make infinite mana with arcane melee and rewind.


----------



## Xaios

While there are *several* infinite mana combos out there, I don't think there's anything in Standard currently.


----------



## Slayer89

Sure there is (for a few more weeks); the terrible Myr Galvanizer combo.

In other news, finally got a real deck on MODO. Currently 2-0 iin my first Daily Event. 1 more win for prized, 2 more for happiness lol.


----------



## Brill

Gilded lotus + deadeye navigator + something that lets you untap a perminant when it enters play = infinite mana. 
This guy was running it with a door to nothingness, it was brutal.


----------



## ShadowFactoryX

holy balls






whats really cool is i made a BG control/reanimate deck not too long ago, and good lord is this making it much more powerful

golgari was definitely on the weak side first time around, seems like they fixed that


----------



## Xaios

No kidding. Black/Green has gotten some mind-blowing toys this time around. Abrupt Decay is a mini-Maelstrom Pulse that can be cast at instant speed, which is just awesome. It will definitely see play in Modern, and may even skirt the borders of Legacy as well.

This is pretty awesome too:






It will replace Day of Judgment nicely. And the art is _fucking metal_.



Loxodrome said:


> Gilded lotus + deadeye navigator + something that lets you untap a perminant when it enters play = infinite mana.
> This guy was running it with a door to nothingness, it was brutal.



Good one, I'd never seen that before. You could use Deceiver Exarch and stay in mono-blue.

Slayer is also right about the Myr Galvanizer combo, although he's also correct in stating that it's terrible.


----------



## ShadowFactoryX

itll be much more playable than day of judgement
and yes the art is mega metal awesome


----------



## Nile

That art!

And black and green!


Also, Slitherhead is so damn cool.


----------



## Brill

Really digging the cards from the nw duel decks. Izzet is my favorite out if the 2. I can see my self.making an izzet stardard deck in RTR.


----------



## Asrial

Duuuuuuude.




This guy is insane!
3 mana 4/4 that's uncounterable and counters discard?


----------



## Xaios

Asrial said:


> Duuuuuuude.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This guy is insane!
> 3 mana 4/4 that's uncounterable and counters discard?



Yeah, I thought that was pretty awesome too. Even if he's just a vanilla beater once he's come down... HE'S COMING DOWN.

As a side note, I post on MTGsalvation.com. In every thread where one of these new uncounterable cards has been spoiled, HORDES of blue mages have come out of the woodwork to proclaim that Wizards has a vendetta against blue, and that this block sounds the death knell for control decks.

Right, it's not like Snapcaster Mage or Delver of Secrets are still a year away from rotation or anything...

Their tears sustain me. 

(Also, counters =/= control.)


----------



## Jakke

I'm a causal player on the computer version. That said, I like the Auramancer.


----------



## ShadowFactoryX

Xaios said:


> As a side note, I post on MTGsalvation.com. In every thread where one of these new uncounterable cards has been spoiled, HORDES of blue mages have come out of the woodwork to proclaim that Wizards has a vendetta against blue, and that this block sounds the death knell for control decks.
> (Also, counters =/= control.)



stopped posting on there cause of the douchery that happens

and it seems like izzet could be pretty awesome, it'd be nice to see some more UR cards in the spoiler here soon


----------



## Asrial

Another new card:




Last time we had a 6/6 demon for 4 was, IIRC, in Worldwake. Abyssal Persecutor.
This is a seriously high threat target, and screams for a removal.


----------



## ShadowFactoryX

I've been thinking of ways to revamp my mono black deck 
^that would be a good start

i've been blowing money on playsets of stuff i want already
i need to cool it


----------



## Xaios

Asrial said:


> Another new card:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Last time we had a 6/6 demon for 4 was, IIRC, in Worldwake. Abyssal Persecutor.
> This is a seriously high threat target, and screams for a removal.



While this is probably one of the strongest Punisher cards that they've ever printed, Punisher as a whole is still a pretty weak mechanic. This _might_ be what it takes to break the mold, but I'll believe it when I see it.

The cards that were spoiled today that most interest me are the following:






I don't think there's ever been a more difficult card to evaluate. It breaks some truly new ground from a design space perspective though, which is exciting. Even speculators are having a hard time deciding if it will be awesome or terrible.

(Just so you guys are clear, you can't just exile a card from your hand, said spell has to be on the stack, which means it has to already have been cast when you exile it.)

_______________________






Card text reads:

Underworld Connections - 1BB
Enchantment - Aura 
Enchant Land
Enchanted Land has "Tap, Pay 1 life: Draw a card"

This card is basically an on-command Phyrexian Arena (which happens to be one of my very favorite cards). Will it see constructed play? It's hard to say, but if it does, it probably won't be until Dimir guild cards get published in Gatecrash. It's the kind of card that I could see getting played in Blue/Black control, but not much else, because it effectively costs a mana whenever you want to use it. It will definitely see play in EDH though as a second Phrexian Arena. 

I also figure this is probably the card that's getting printed in lieu of Bob.


----------



## ShadowFactoryX

Xaios said:


> (Just so you guys are clear, you can't just exile a card from your hand, said spell has to be on the stack, which means it has to already have been cast when you exile it.)


They should have worded it a bit better, but after thinking about it some, I do get it.
To me this card is only usefull as a response to your i/s getting countered.
unless someone things of some quasi awesome spell to work with. a storm spell maybe?



Xaios said:


> This card is basically an on-command Phyrexian Arena (which happens to be one of my very favorite cards). Will it see constructed play? It's hard to say, but if it does, it probably won't be until Dimir guild cards get published in Gatecrash. It's the kind of card that I could see getting played in Blue/Black control, but not much else, because it effectively costs a mana whenever you want to use it. It will definitely see play in EDH though as a second Phrexian Arena.
> 
> I also figure this is probably the card that's getting printed in lieu of Bob.



I agree about seeing this more in dimir, especially with no sign of dredge coming back.
The biggest drawback is having it enchant a land, which could be useless in a tight mana situation.

Though, thank god they're not reprinting bob, i utterly hate that card.


----------



## Nile

I want Bob reprinted even though that would be stupid. Therefore any deck I splash black in will be awesome.


----------



## Asrial

What intrigues me about Nivmagus is the format he is printed in. I can imagine some clever snapcast abuse being brewed up right now. Even past in flames might see some more action due to him!

Also, we get a replacement for Glint hawk:




Rather cool IMO, might fit into some Azorious decks.

And into the roil just got its OP cousin:




I just... What?!
Instant. One-sided. Board removal.


----------



## ShadowFactoryX

Asrial said:


> I just... What?!
> Instant. One-sided. Board removal.



Its still a heavy cost


----------



## Asrial

^Absolutely, the cost is kinda unreal, but considering the effect and the speed, I think it's extreme. Not to mention how much this will wreck in EDH.
Also, without its overload, it's just a new into the roil, which is also a quite handy bounce-spell.


----------



## caskettheclown

Got duel decks Golgari vs Izzet. 

They are a lot of fun. Can't really say which deck is better because I won with both of them. It just depends on your play style really and how well you know the deck. I will say this, it is chock full of good singles and both are REALLY FUN to play with! Especially if you are new to some of the dredge mechanics.


ALSO ALSO I got a holographic Necropotence! I know its only legal in commander and restricted in vintage but I put it in my black blue control deck just for casual play (cause my friend couldn't see how broken it was). Ended was being able to draw 15 cards easy and still get up to 50 life. ITS SO MUCH FUN! I'm like a kid inside!


----------



## Slayer89

Just played in a TCGPlayer event on Sunday. I'm Alan Clifton.

2012 Bronze Qualifier - Red Sky Comics 9/9 Decklists - Magic the Gathering TCG (MTG)

Not huge and not 1st, but still cool to see my name on a legit site. Figures I got paired up against the deck packing thragtusks, huntmasters, angels, and blade splicers in the quarter finals, lol. Slow muligans ftl


----------



## Xaios

caskettheclown said:


> Got duel decks Golgari vs Izzet.
> 
> They are a lot of fun. Can't really say which deck is better because I won with both of them. It just depends on your play style really and how well you know the deck. I will say this, it is chock full of good singles and both are REALLY FUN to play with! Especially if you are new to some of the dredge mechanics.



I also got a Golgari vs. Izzet duel deck... and promptly dismantled it for Commander singles. 

Speaking of Commander. I built a new version of Karador a couple nights ago, and I'm liking how it runs so far. But then they go and spoil this...







...which, for Karador, is basically auto-include. Eladamri's Call and Entomb-lite? Hell yes, even if it is only at sorcery speed.


----------



## ittoa666

I need to pick up the new dual deck. Probably gonna do that tomorrow.


----------



## ittoa666

Slayer89 said:


> Just played in a TCGPlayer event on Sunday. I'm Alan Clifton.
> 
> 2012 Bronze Qualifier - Red Sky Comics 9/9 Decklists - Magic the Gathering TCG (MTG)
> 
> Not huge and not 1st, but still cool to see my name on a legit site. Figures I got paired up against the deck packing thragtusks, huntmasters, angels, and blade splicers in the quarter finals, lol. Slow muligans ftl



Diggin that deck you played with. Looks fun.


----------



## Slayer89

Yeah, it is. I made a few changes after the event. Pulled the Bonfire. Then switched the sideboarded Knights for the Metamorphs and added a Murder. Definitely a work in progress but tons of fun.


----------



## Xaios

Genesis Wave for instants and sorceries!


----------



## ittoa666

Nevermind. Went and bought the dual deck tonight. Definitely pleased, especially with life from the loam and this new Niv-Mizzet. 

Also, 666th comment.


----------



## ShadowFactoryX

Epic Experiment could be absolutely awesome.

edit:
LOL vraska is going for 85-110 on ebay for a playset.
no thanks


----------



## Asrial

Well, there we got another potentially game-finishing spell.
Especially with Izzet that's going to have a library full of instants/sorceries, things can get real ugly real fast.

Also, so far, I think I'm going to stick with Azorius for the pre-release, and shift to Selesnya for standard. Still waiting for Dimir.


----------



## ShadowFactoryX

my problem with izzet so far is that there's too many creatures, and not enough spells.
granted its a spoiler, but i would like to see some more UR combo spells popping up, i hope they dont get watered down like last time.


----------



## Xaios

Oblivion Ring on crack!






The only disappointing thing is that you can't get into O-Ring wars with your opponent with this card, where one player o-rings the other player's o-ring and so forth, as it specifically states that you can't exile another Detention Sphere.


----------



## Asrial

^Yeah, but that's essentially to prevent paradox exiles, because the effect activates on the battlefield, thus it has to exile itself, which means that its exiled targets gets put back again...

Actually, that COULD be a really cool move.


----------



## Xaios

Asrial said:


> ^Yeah, but that's essentially to prevent paradox exiles, because the effect activates on the battlefield, thus it has to exile itself, which means that its exiled targets gets put back again...
> 
> Actually, that COULD be a really cool move.



True, but Oblivion Ring solves that simply by saying "exile *another *target nonland permanent." It's not difficult to protect against that kind of thing.

The REALLY interesting thing is that it's kind of a mixture of Oblivion Ring and Maelstrom Pulse. It will be quite effective against token decks.

EDIT: What have we here?






Seems that this card might be some decent anti-Storm tech, although a bit on the pricey side. Might be good as a 1/2 of in a Pyromancer Ascension/Splinter Twin deck.


----------



## ShadowFactoryX

im down with it, its a decent counter for izzet play


----------



## Xaios

ShadowFactoryX said:


> im down with it, its a decent counter for izzet play



True, but in the new Standard environment, I'd be more inclined to play with Izzet Charm.


----------



## ShadowFactoryX

that was the first thing i preordered a set of.
i've already spent 200 on playset preorders this month


----------



## Xaios

I'm *really* trying to tone down my Magic spending as of late. Trying to procure costly foils for my Omnath EDH deck is enough without having to worry about spending money on new sets too.

On the upside, my Omnath deck now has 62 foils.


----------



## ittoa666

Just saw LSV post this on fb. Bonfire ftw.


----------



## Xaios

I hereby decree, should anyone ever be killed by a Miracle'd Bonfire of the Damned, the winner is to proclaim...

"You just got bwned."

______________


On a tangent, one time I was playing in a Standard tournament back during Alara + Zendikar block days, and a my opponent goes to cast a spell. He taps his mana, then windmill slams a Banefire whilst yelling "KA-BLAM!!"

Right as he slapped the card on the table, the metal folding chair I was sitting on broke, and I just went sprawling backwards.

That was one helluva Banefire!


----------



## ittoa666

You literally got blown away.


----------



## ShadowFactoryX

never heard of that card till now
i didnt know fireball typed spells gained popularity again


----------



## Asrial

^I actually really don't like those kind of cards that says "blast creature or player for x", like Banefire as Xaios mentioned. They're just so incredibly inefficient it's stupid. It just begs to be put together with a mana generator before they can do some serious harm. Fixed spells seem to be far better at picking of creatures or pinging, while these cards are rather lategame. Who the hell aims for lategame with burn?! That's like hardcasting an Emrakul with no token help.

But so far, it is only Banefire and Bonfire that I like that does a "burn x". And Rakdos' return. That card is neat.


----------



## ShadowFactoryX

i'd rather pass on all of them

so i already have all the dual lands preordered, loxodon smiter, lotleth troll, and a few other uncommons
im trying hard to score abrupt decay for around 40, but its not goin so well


----------



## Slayer89

So far I've oredered a set of Blood Crypts and Overgrown Tombs. Thinking of trading in my Foil Bonfire to get some more stuff. Not sure, though.


----------



## Xaios

U/W control was reasonably popular at the time, so Banefire became a reasonable choice as a finisher for Jund with its uncounterability.

I'm *really* liking the look of G/B. It's one of my favorite color combinations outside of T2, so the fact that it seems to be getting a pretty awesome boost makes it very attractive. I'm thinking G/B zombies with a splash of Red for Bonfire of the Damned, Falkenrath Aristocrat and sideboard Dreadbore.


----------



## ShadowFactoryX

U/G before simic eh?
i was vastly underwhelmed with simic in dissension, voidslime was cool, but nothing else was incredibly awesome.


----------



## Xaios

Gah! I have no idea why I typed U/G. I meant G/B. 

Fixed.

For what it's worth, Momir Vig is a pretty awesome commander for EDH.


----------



## ShadowFactoryX

lol i was gonna say..

i still have no clue what EDH commander is
or how to use planeswalkers


----------



## Xaios

ShadowFactoryX said:


> lol i was gonna say..
> 
> i still have no clue what EDH commander is
> or how to use planeswalkers



In a nutshell, Commander is the best format ever.

It was originally called EDH, which stands for Elder Dragon Highlander. The name was changed to Commander in 2011 when Wizards made it an officially sanctioned casual format in order to avoid copyright infringement.

The point of the deck is this. First, find a legendary creature. This creature becomes your Commander. You then build a 99 card deck with the following criteria:
- Aside from basic land, you can only use one copy of any given card. (That's why part of the name original name of the format was Highlander, because "THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!!")
- The colors of your commander determine the colors of the cards you can play in your deck, INCLUDING colors that appear in the rules text. For example, if you commander is Rafiq of the Many, you can only have cards that are white and/or blue and/or green (as well as colorless cards such as artifacts and Eldrazi). A more complex example is Memnarch. While he's colorless to cast, because he has a blue mana symbol in his rules text, you can play blue cards in a deck with him as your commander. On the flipside, you can't play Wild Research in a Kiki-Jiki deck, because it has blue and white mana symbols in its rules text. Additionally, your mana can only generate colors of mana that are in your commander's color identity. If you try and generate red mana off of City of Brass in a deck with Rafiq of the Many as the commander, you'll get colorless mana instead.

It sounds more complicated than it actually is. Bearing in mind the color restriction, you try and build a deck that synergizes with the abilities of your commander. For example:
- If you want to build a deck with Uril, the Miststalker, you'll build a white/green/red deck based around creature enchantments. 
- If you want to build a deck with Captain Sisay at the helm, you want to build a White/Green toolbox deck with the best legendary cards in her colors.
- If you want to build a deck with Azami, Lady of Scrolls, you'll build a mono-blue control deck with other wizard-type creatures in order to take advantage of her draw ability.

Your commander doesn't start the game in your deck, but rather in what's called the Command Zone, and any time he would go to the graveyard or get exiled, you can opt to put him back in the Command Zone. While he's there, you can cast him anytime you could cast a regular creature. The caveat is that there's something called the "Commander Tax." What that means is that, for everytime prior that you've cast your commander from the Command Zone, you have to pay an additional 2 colorless mana to cast him again.

Everyone starts at 40 life. All regular conditions of losing apply, but additionally, if you get dealt 21 total damage by any one commander over the course of the game, you lose automatically.

The official rules for the format are available here: Elder Dragon Highlander (EDH) / Commander rules

It's a fantastic format though, that can bring out some real deckbuilding creativity.


----------



## ShadowFactoryX

good lord that sounds fun
i'd love to get into that, but i know i just do not have the time to casual play like i used to
most of me buying stuff is to have fun at home, by myself really.

honestly, there was a lot of tools that played in my area and i have a hard time wanting to get back into the game, cause most people wanna play standard, or are super elitist douches.


----------



## Xaios

As an example, this is a decklist for my Omnath EDH deck:

General (1):
- Omnath, Locus of Mana (Foil)

Planeswalkers (3):
- Garruk Wildspeaker (Foil)
- Garruk, Primal Hunter (Foil)
- Karn Liberated

Creatures (26):
- Acidic Slime (Foil)
- Ant Queen (M10 Release Foil)
- Avenger of Zendikar (Foil)
- Deadwood Treefolk
- Dungrove Elder (Foil)
- Eternal Witness (FNM Foil)
- Fauna Shaman
- Fierce Empath
- Genesis (Foil)
- Hornet Queen
- Kamahl, Fist of Krosa
- Krosan Tusker (FNM Foil)
- Lotus Cobra (Foil)
- Magus of the Library
- Primeval Titan
- Regal Force
- Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
- Sakura-Tribe Elder (FNM Foil)
- Seedborn Muse
- Soul of the Harvest
- Terastodon (Foil)
- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
- Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger (Foil)
- Wickerbough Elder (Foil)
- Wolfbriar Elemental (Foil)
- Yavimaya Elder

Artifacts (11):
- Akroma's Memorial (Foil)
- Caged Sun (Foil)
- Doubling Cube
- Eldrazi Monument (Foil)
- Extraplanar Lens
- Lightning Greaves (FNM Foil)
- Mind's Eye
- Planar Portal
- Sensei's Divining Top (FTV Foil)
- Sol Ring (FTV Foil)
- Vedalken Orrery (Foil)

Enchantments (11):
- Asceticism
- Aluren
- Beastmaster Ascension (Foil)
- Defense of the Heart
- Exploration
- Gaea's Touch
- Greater Good
- Mana Reflection
- Pattern of Rebirth
- Survival of the Fittest (Judge Foil)
- Sylvan Library

Instants (5):
- Beast Within
- Chord of Calling
- Krosan Grip (FNM Foil)
- Momentous Fall (Foil)
- Worldly Tutor

Sorceries (8):
- All Is Dust (Foil)
- Genesis Wave
- Harmonize
- Kodama's Reach (Foil)
- Natural Order (Judge Foil)
- Praetor's Counsel (Foil)
- Skyshroud Claim
- Tooth and Nail

Non-Basic Lands (7):
- Gaea's Cradle (Judge Foil)
- Homeward Path
- Mosswort Bridge
- Reliquary Tower (Foil)
- Tranquil Thicket (Foil)
- Winding Canyons
- Yavimaya Hollow

Basic Lands (28):
- 28 Forest (all Foil)

It's pretty sexy to look at, and beats some serious face to boot.


----------



## ShadowFactoryX

mono green? not bad, i see what you got goin on there, not bad, i'd like to have a go in that format
i do think i bought some commander stuff a while ago


----------



## Nile

Xaois you sexy mother fucker with that mono green EDH deck of yours.


----------



## caskettheclown

Decided i'm going to foil out my blue black discard deck.

Already got the holo liliana's and a bunch of other stuff too.

ALSO recently got a holo and non holo liliana of the veil. <3


----------



## caskettheclown

Played a really intense game with my black blue discard deck against my friends red white and green winter orb control deck. It featured manabarbs and winter orb and some other stuff too. Took forever but I finally won after I had the game locked down with lilianas caress and painful quandry out, as well as exquisite blood.


Damn I hate playing against winter orb, O_O


----------



## Brill

Really wanna make a thundermaw hellkit deck. Anyone got some tips?


----------



## Nile

Loxodrome said:


> Really wanna make a thundermaw hellkit deck. Anyone got some tips?



Standard?


----------



## Brill

Nile said:


> Standard?



Yeah. Trying to actually win a promo card XD


----------



## Xaios

Working on a trade to get a foil Genesis Wave and a foil Soul of the Harvest for my Omnath deck.


----------



## Nile

Loxodrome said:


> Yeah. Trying to actually win a promo card XD



I'm not even sure honestly with how shit is going to change.


----------



## ShadowFactoryX

are they still making the textless spells?
i was buying those up at one point.
my 5 color beats features (between main and sideboard) 4 lightning helix, 4 putrify, 4 mortify, and 4 electrolyze, all textless (electrolyze is full art)


----------



## Xaios

ShadowFactoryX said:


> are they still making the textless spells?
> i was buying those up at one point.
> my 5 color beats features (between main and sideboard) 4 lightning helix, 4 putrify, 4 mortify, and 4 electrolyze, all textless (electrolyze is full art)



Unfortunately, no. Those were part of the Magic Player Rewards program, which shut down at the end of 2010.

Also forgot to mention I came in 1st place at FNM on Friday. Been a little while since I've been able to do that, but the humans came through for me again.


----------



## ShadowFactoryX

why would they ever shut down player rewards?
nonsense
and congrats! i played in a total of probably 3 FNM's lol


----------



## Xaios

Indeed. The first couple decks I faced off against were junk. The last ones, however, were legit mono-green aggro/ramp decks, which is typically a really bad matchup for me. I was quite happy to come through those alive.


----------



## Asrial

Guise!


Spoiler



forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=448012


The set... It has been (mostly) leaked! 
My jaw has been dropped, and just to give a minimal spoil to those who are more iffy:


Spoiler



Rakdos' got the sickest beater ever, Selesnya got insane kit, and Golgari is sadly enough not that suited for limited as far as I can see.


----------



## Xaios

Rogue's Passage will see a ton of play in EDH. It's a land that a) comes into play untapped, b) can generate mana (albeit colorless), and c) has an ability that says "Tap, pay 4 mana: target creature is unblockable this turn." Voltron EDH decks will LOVE that.


----------



## ShadowFactoryX

azorius is disastrously underwhelming
and rakdos himself is very impressive


----------



## Xaios

So, EDH banlist update got posted today, a couple days early.

*Banned:*
- Worldfire
- Primeval Titan

*Unbanned:*
- Kokusho, the Evening Star

*Banned as a General:*
- Kokusho, the Evening Star

I saw both the Worldfire ban and Kokusho getting unbanned as a part of the 99 coming from a mile away. Primeval Titan getting the banhammer, however, blindsided me (although the reasoning is obvious, I just didn't think it would happen). In my Karador deck, I can at least pop Primeval Titan out and through Kokusho right in the same slot. He's going to be quite a bit harder to replace in my Omnath deck.


----------



## Brill

My blue/black/ green unblockable kicks massive arse. And cost me like nothing.


----------



## ittoa666

Sounds obnoxious enough to work  I would hate to play against it.


----------



## ittoa666

By the way guys, here's my Boros listing that I haven't updated in forever. Gotta add some juice to it.

Boros Aggro ( MTG Deck)


----------



## Nile

Primeval Titan getting the ban hammer was really unexpected.


----------



## caskettheclown

My friend made a worldfire deck made not to win or lose but to tie, he Oringed manabarbs -_-


----------



## Slayer89

So, what guilds are everyone considering for the prerelease? Personally, I'm leaning towards Golgari or Azorius.


----------



## Brill

Slayer89 said:


> So, what guilds are everyone considering for the prerelease? Personally, I'm leaning towards Golgari or Azorius.



Izzet or the white green ome.. I do have a cool Golgari idea.


----------



## Xaios

caskettheclown said:


> My friend made a worldfire deck made not to win or lose but to tie, he Oringed manabarbs -_-



Actually, that wouldn't be a tie. Whoever draws out their library first would lose.

Also, if someone were to play a direct damage spell at instant speed such as Lightning Bolt (or any of its various analogues), they would pull out the win. Let me explain:

1) Player 1 taps land(s) for mana.
2) Manabarbs places a triggered ability on the stack each time a land is tapped which, when they resolve, will do 1 damage each to Player 1.
3) Player 1, still having priority, uses the mana in his pool to cast a burn spell.
4) Burn spell goes onto the stack, on top of the Manabarbs trigger(s).
5) Player 1 then passes priority to Player 2, also giving him the opportunity to put instant speed spells and abilities on the stack.
6) Assuming Player 2 doesn't respond in any way, the stack will then resolve from top to bottom.
7) Burn spell resolves doing enough damage to Player 2 to reduce them to 0 life.
8) The game sees that Player 2 has zero life. A state-based action is triggered (which circumvents the stack entirely) ending the game and exiling all spells and abilities remaining on the stack.


----------



## Brill

Would this work?
Dark imposter + the new planeswalkers 1/1 + tormented soul + lotleth troll.
You should be able to win intantly? Maybe id add the hexproof artifact.


----------



## ShadowFactoryX

Slayer89 said:


> So, what guilds are everyone considering for the prerelease? Personally, I'm leaning towards Golgari or Azorius.



izzet would be too slow to set up, but has some ok tricks
rakdos is straight up beats, but predictable
selesnia is hard based on tokens, but is manageable
azorious has plenty of good response cards, but a few minor beat stick creatures
golgari is well rounded, and has a good base of spells/creatures

depends what you get, but in most cases i'd lean to a combo of selesnia/azorious or golgari selesnia


----------



## Slayer89

I was more asking what guild you planned on choosing for your prerelease pack.


----------



## WhiteWalls

Slayer89 said:


> I was more asking what guild you planned on choosing for your prerelease pack.


Golgari, it has a bit more mana fixing than the other colors and the creature quality is very good, not selesnya good but you make up for it with nice removal spells


----------



## ittoa666

Slayer89 said:


> So, what guilds are everyone considering for the prerelease? Personally, I'm leaning towards Golgari or Azorius.



Izzet if there's different pack to be had.


----------



## Xaios

Loxodrome said:


> Would this work?
> Dark imposter + the new planeswalkers 1/1 + tormented soul + lotleth troll.
> You should be able to win intantly? Maybe id add the hexproof artifact.



No. Dark Impostor only inherits activated abilities, so the only ability it would gain from any of those is Lotleth Troll's ability to pitch cards to grow, and to regenerate. The mini-Phage token's ability is a triggered ability, and Tormented Soul's ability is a static ability. And even if it did, you'd have to get all those cards into the battlefield, and then pay 6 mana _each_ to have Dark Impostor absorb them. Not exactly an efficient strategy when your opponent can simply go "Nyerr, Unsummon!" and undo all that work.

EDIT: Hexproof is another static ability, which Dark Impostor again would not be able to absorb.


----------



## Nile

Xaios said:


> "Nyerr, Unsummon!"



 I've heard this before.


----------



## caskettheclown

Xaios said:


> Actually, that wouldn't be a tie. Whoever draws out their library first would lose.
> 
> Also, if someone were to play a direct damage spell at instant speed such as Lightning Bolt (or any of its various analogues), they would pull out the win. Let me explain:
> 
> 1) Player 1 taps land(s) for mana.
> 2) Manabarbs places a triggered ability on the stack each time a land is tapped which, when they resolve, will do 1 damage each to Player 1.
> 3) Player 1, still having priority, uses the mana in his pool to cast a burn spell.
> 4) Burn spell goes onto the stack, on top of the Manabarbs trigger(s).
> 5) Player 1 then passes priority to Player 2, also giving him the opportunity to put instant speed spells and abilities on the stack.
> 6) Assuming Player 2 doesn't respond in any way, the stack will then resolve from top to bottom.
> 7) Burn spell resolves doing enough damage to Player 2 to reduce them to 0 life.
> 8) The game sees that Player 2 has zero life. A state-based action is triggered (which circumvents the stack entirely) ending the game and exiling all spells and abilities remaining on the stack.



Ahh alright,that's good to know


----------



## Xaios

Acquired awesome foils tonight for my Omnath deck:
- foil Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
- foil Soul of the Harvest
- foil Genesis Wave


----------



## caskettheclown

Apparently a lot of people use cockatrice to play magic on the computer.

Anyone got any info on it?

Is it worth trying out or is it really buggy or what?

If its worth it i'd be excited so I could try out different cards before buying them and putting them in my actual decks


----------



## ShadowFactoryX

Scored a playset of Abrupt Decay for $48 tonight, preorder on ebay, which I think is a really freakin good deal, because they've been getting the price hike lately for anywhere between 56-70.
So I pretty much got all the cards Ive wanted out of Return ALREADY.  Spent a decent amount of money to get them, but at least i dont have Go through a box to get 5 good rares and a handful or two of other U/C

I never heard of cockatrice, looks ok.
I used to use the other 3rd party one to play magic, and i cant remember its name. Any help?

And wayyyy back in the day, I actually used to play MTGO, and had some free cards from like 8th edition and mirrodin i think, and I had some people toss me a few free cards here and there, which was cool
I should probably download it, and login to see what i had, maybe get some new cards for free eh?


----------



## Slayer89

Cockatrice is pretty good for testing. Definitely better than MWS (IMO).

Played in a GPT/1k yesterday. Sadly not enough people showed up to make the 1k prize pool doable, (only 35-36 out of 50 showed). Still made 3rd and walked away with booster box of Innistrad, though, so I'm happy.


----------



## Nile

Cockatrice over MTGO or MWS any day.


----------



## caskettheclown

Nile said:


> Cockatrice over MTGO or MWS any day.



why though? If you don't mind me asking. Cause its free or what?


----------



## Slayer89

I'd take MTGO over Cockatrice for serious play, but you do have to pay for it. Of the free programs Cockatrice is best.


----------



## Nile

On MTGO don't you have to own the cards on the game and can't pick random shit?


----------



## Brill

Where can i get Russian cards? Ive seen like 1 in the store i go to. But ud love to make all my decks from russian cards


----------



## WhiteWalls

They serve very different purposes and one does not exclude the other:

MWS and Cockatrice are awesome because you can try out a deck with your friends and it's very easy to play a lot of games quickly. When I start building a deck MWS is the first thing i open just to look at all the card lists and get a rough sketch of what I want to do

MTGO is useful to improve your technical play skill because there are only good players and it's great to fine-tune your deck, but since you have to actually buy it, you need to be sure that the deck you're buying is not a collection of empty sleeves 
The one thing where mtgo is absolutely unbeatable is drafting


----------



## ShadowFactoryX

WhiteWalls said:


> They serve very different purposes and one does not exclude the other:
> 
> MWS and Cockatrice are awesome because you can try out a deck with your friends and it's very easy to play a lot of games quickly. When I start building a deck MWS is the first thing i open just to look at all the card lists and get a rough sketch of what I want to do
> 
> MTGO is useful to improve your technical play skill because there are only good players and it's great to fine-tune your deck, but since you have to actually buy it, you need to be sure that the deck you're buying is not a collection of empty sleeves
> The one thing where mtgo is absolutely unbeatable is drafting



wait, you could draft on MWS right?

the cool thing about MTGO is you can cash in your cards, unless they did away with that?


----------



## ittoa666

Loxodrome said:


> Where can i get Russian cards? Ive seen like 1 in the store i go to. But ud love to make all my decks from russian cards



Just search for boxes of them. My local store has thousands of them.


----------



## Xaios

I tried to get into MTGO, but I didn't really like it. I spend enough on paper Magic, I didn't need to be spending more buying tickets. 

I downloaded Cockatrice as well, but I never actually used it. If I want to design a deck, I usually use MTGdeckbuilder.net. It's more convenient for me to be able to access my lists from any computer.


----------



## WhiteWalls

ShadowFactoryX said:


> wait, you could draft on MWS right?
> 
> the cool thing about MTGO is you can cash in your cards, unless they did away with that?



No, you can't draft with MWS. The way I used to do it was by using NetDraft, then you export the deck and you import it into MWS and play. But it was only good with casual gaming because, while there was some kind of security code system, it was still pretty easy to add cards to your deck or whatever

You can have Wizards send you real cards, but that only works if you have one complete set, and they will send you one each of all the cards in that set.


----------



## ShadowFactoryX

WhiteWalls said:


> No, you can't draft with MWS. The way I used to do it was by using NetDraft, then you export the deck and you import it into MWS and play. But it was only good with casual gaming because, while there was some kind of security code system, it was still pretty easy to add cards to your deck or whatever
> 
> You can have Wizards send you real cards, but that only works if you have one complete set, and they will send you one each of all the cards in that set.



waiiiiit whattt?
they wont send you individual cards anymore? (or did they ever do that?)
And I remember NetDraft now, it wasnt the worst thing, but it was a bit complicated.


----------



## Slayer89

No, it's always been that you cash in whole sets. At least that's how it's been for the last 5 years.

As said before MWS/Cockatrice are great for brewing and basic testing, MTGO is great for "serious business".


----------



## Nile

Loxodrome said:


> Where can i get Russian cards? Ive seen like 1 in the store i go to. But ud love to make all my decks from russian cards



Russian cards are expensive fyi. Foil ones cost shit tons more than even foil Japanese ones.


----------



## Slayer89

Anyone hitting up States in a couple weeks? I have some seriously testing to jam in considering I'm gonna be out of town almost the whole week before the event.


----------



## WhiteWalls

Anybody did the prerelease today? Opinions on the format?
One thing that pissed me off a bit is that the promo rares (that you can play) are ridiculously unbalanced, my Golgari 4/4 was laughable compared to Hypersonic Dragon and the Azorius dude, luckily I had some pretty good removal spells so I was able to get out of sticky situations but it really felt like golgari is extremely underpowered.


----------



## Xaios

I quite enjoyed it. I didn't have the greatest pool of cards from the packs I opened, but I managed to pull it a 3-2 record. It actually seems quite balanced for limited.

I also played Golgari, and yeah, Corpsejack Menace is underwhelming compared to the likes of Hypersonic Dragon and Archon of the Triumvirate, but it's no worse than the Selesnya or Rakdos guild rares.

One card that I discovered is totally legit (at least for limited, probably not good in constructed) is Stab Wound. I ended up with 3 of them, and they single-handedly won me a few games. You can either kill their small creatures outright or you can de-power their bombs while simultaneously making them hurt themselves for keeping them on the field. My very first game of the day, my opponent cast an Unleashed Thrill-Kill Assassin, making it 2/3 and not able to block. I cast Stab Wound on it and turned it into a 0/1, and because it had a counter on it, it couldn't block any of my creatures. So for the rest of the game, me and my opponent just sat there building board presence while he had a 0/1 that couldn't attack, couldn't block, and was hurting him for 2 life each turn. It was great.


----------



## WhiteWalls

I won one game by dealing 24 damage with 2 stab wounds so yeah, they are quite good


----------



## Slayer89

I chose Golgari (ended up with a pretty decent Jund list) and went 3-0-1. My opponent and I ID'd in the last round for a guaranteed 9 packs each. Relaxing at that point was very appealing considering it was about 4am.

None of the promos are all too powerful on their own. They each need to be setup to be good, and when they are they are usually very good. Multiple times I'd have Corpsejck Menace out with Lotleth Troll out, discard a Sewer Shambler, then Scavenge the Shambler onto the Lotleth and end up with a Regenerating 8/7 trampler. Even the Rakdos one is great in combat. Not many cards can battle profitably with a 6/5 Hastey Firststriker.

Anywho, the format seems like a lot of fun.


----------



## Brill

Got me a crap ton of selesnya and azorius stuff!


----------



## caskettheclown

Couldn't go to the prerelease due to working overnight shift. What all kinds of goodies did you guys get? Any idea if there are any dice or die with the guild symbols on them? Stickers? 


I've already decided i'm making a Selesnya deck, might splash in blue specifically for the detain effects.


----------



## Xaios

caskettheclown said:


> Any idea if there are any dice or die with the guild symbols on them? Stickers?



Yes and yes.


----------



## Slayer89

The guild dice are pretty sick. Still trying to decide what to do with the sticker.

Current Standard Decks I'm assembling are Jund Zombies and UR Delver. I feel a midrange swarm at least until Gatecrash comes out, though.


----------



## ILuvPillows

Just got given my first ever Magic day today. Koth, a fire based deck. Just finished my first two battles against my new housemate's blue and white deck: 1:1. Yaaaay, Magic!


----------



## caskettheclown

Xaios said:


> Yes and yes.





Slayer89 said:


> The guild dice are pretty sick. Still trying to decide what to do with the sticker.
> 
> Current Standard Decks I'm assembling are Jund Zombies and UR Delver. I feel a midrange swarm at least until Gatecrash comes out, though.




I don't know why but I love things like that. I'm definitely gonna get me a couple selesnya dice when I get the chance. The stickers will go on my binder or a deckbox depending on the size.


----------



## Xaios

Played two more pre-releases today.

For the first one, I had a great deck, but the shittiest luck in the world with my draws. Ended up 2-3. I was Izzet.

The second one of the day was Two-Headed Giant. What was really cool was that each person got a full pre-release guild bundle with 6 packs for a total of 12 packs per group, as opposed to the usual 8 packs per group you usually get in sealed. The result were some really nicely tuned decks for a sealed event. I went Izzet again and my teammate went Golgari. We each opened a Vraska the Unseen in our guild boxes which means my teammate was playing with two Vraskas. It was awesome. My deck was mostly counters and removal with some nice top end creatures, including two Hypersonic Dragons and a Niz-Mizzett.

I didn't really open anything tremendously exciting in my winnings packs for the weekend, I'd say the best card there was a Temple Garden. Best card I got was definitely a Vraska.


----------



## Brill

Whose worth more, the new jace or vraska?


----------



## Xaios

Currently, they're sitting at around the same value, currently. Some stores have one for more, some the other. They're both great cards. I don't think that either of them will stay at their current values in the long run, but they'll both always be good.


----------



## Brill

Xaios said:


> Currently, they're sitting at around the same value, currently. Some stores have one for more, some the other. They're both great cards. I don't think that either of them will stay at their current values in the long run, but they'll both always be good.


I traded a adrupd decay and a detension sphere for a vraska and another azouris rare. The traded a vraska for a jace. Then sold the jace for 25.
Good deal?


----------



## Xaios

Loxodrome said:


> I traded a adrupd decay and a detension sphere for a vraska and another azouris rare. The traded a vraska for a jace. Then sold the jace for 25.
> Good deal?



In all likelihood, no. You could have made a profit if you had been more careful, but you sold Jace for about $10 below its current market value. You might have even been able to get $40 for Vraska from someone looking to build G/B Zombies, that's her current SCG price.

Sorry dude.


----------



## Brill

Xaios said:


> In all likelihood, no. You could have made a profit if you had been more careful, but you sold Jace for about $10 below its current market value. You might have even been able to get $40 for Vraska from someone looking to build G/B Zombies, that's her current SCG price.
> 
> Sorry dude.



I thought he was worth 30ish... He 2as like nup...and wouldnt buy it for more than 25.. He then told me that it is actually woeth 35... He is the only person who buys cards in the shop however..


----------



## Asrial

Not sure if trolling or just annoying, but my friend lost totally in the pre-release event, went to the losers tournament, won horribly, and now refuses to play with any deck but that.
Each time we take a game, he seriously just want to use that deck, which is 46 cards big, and demands that either I keep duelling him with my standard deck, create a 40-card ravnica-only deck (I have half the amount of cards he has, because the losers tournament had a new fee and another set of packs) or create a ravnica-only deck so he can build a standard-legal deck.

Jesus fucking christ. ._.


----------



## Xaios

Eh, just build a kickass standard deck and beat face.


----------



## Brill

Last week that my local magic store is open :/ he seems to not be open on the days hecsaid he would... Hopegully hes open on friday.. I need my booster box.


----------



## Brill

I got a nivmagus elemental in my rtr boostrr box. It seems fucking over powered. Ive made a deck around it. Its all 1 drop spells that i just exile, turn 2 i can hit for like 5. I just need to playvtesr it and get more nivmagus. Im thinking of putting a qurian druid in theres, cause it was originally U/B/G for corpsejack. But i could never get him out.


----------



## Nile

Loxodrome said:


> I got a nivmagus elemental in my rtr boostrr box. It seems fucking over powered. Ive made a deck around it. Its all 1 drop spells that i just exile, turn 2 i can hit for like 5. I just need to playvtesr it and get more nivmagus. Im thinking of putting a qurian druid in theres, cause it was originally U/B/G for corpsejack. But i could never get him out.



He isn't really at all imho. He really seems like one of the lesser cards. Ya you can pitch worthless spells to him, but he is just so vulnerable.


----------



## Brill

Nile said:


> He isn't really at all imho. He really seems like one of the lesser cards. Ya you can pitch worthless spells to him, but he is just so vulnerable.


Even if he gets killed before i can swing twice. A 5/6 for 3 turn 2 is powerful. Turn 3 he can get up to 9/10 or 11/12 depending if you get 3 land. Imho thatsa lot of damage for a 1 drop. And that early how many things can remove it? Ive got mizzium skin in there so i can make him hexproof is someone trys to abrupt decay him.


----------



## Xaios

Loxodrome said:


> Even if he gets killed before i can swing twice. A 5/6 for 3 turn 2 is powerful. Turn 3 he can get up to 9/10 or 11/12 depending if you get 3 land. Imho thatsa lot of damage for a 1 drop. And that early how many things can remove it? Ive got mizzium skin in there so i can make him hexproof is someone trys to abrupt decay him.



And what if they hit it with Abrupt Decay in response to you tapping out your mana to put a spell on the stack? That is, after all, what a smart player would do.

In any case, they could still get rid of it with something like Liliana of the Veil or Tribute to Hunger (which benefits your opponent from you pumping up Nivmagus). Or they could detain it. Or they could chump-block it until the cows come home.


----------



## Brill

Xaios said:


> And what if they hit it with Abrupt Decay in response to you tapping out your mana to put a spell on the stack? That is, after all, what a smart player would do.
> 
> In any case, they could still get rid of it with something like Liliana of the Veil or Tribute to Hunger (which benefits your opponent from you pumping up Nivmagus). Or they could detain it. Or they could chump-block it until the cows come home.



Im runing diviant glee with transguild prominards... So chumps be dammed! Its no grest but its decent imo.. 
Not as much fun as my discard rakdos deck  im trying to find a way to make slaughter games more useful than just yelling random cards that they told me they were running. Another question. With havok festival, if therr is an enchantment that deals damaged at the beginning of the upkeep, do you halve then deal the damage or bice vetsa?


----------



## ShadowFactoryX

what was the prerelease card?
and what is the card for tomorrow?


----------



## Xaios

Loxodrome said:


> Im runing diviant glee with transguild prominards... So chumps be dammed! Its no grest but its decent imo..
> Not as much fun as my discard rakdos deck  im trying to find a way to make slaughter games more useful than just yelling random cards that they told me they were running. Another question. With havok festival, if therr is an enchantment that deals damaged at the beginning of the upkeep, do you halve then deal the damage or bice vetsa?



Okay, first of all dude... proofread your posts. That was painful to read.

Secondly, there are two enchantments in standard that deal damage to a player at the beginning of their upkeep (at least that I'm aware of off the top of my head): Curse of the Pierced Heart and Curse of Thirst. During your opponent's upkeep, the first thing that will happen is they will put any "at the beginning of your upkeep" triggered abilities that they control on the stack, in the order that they wish. Then you do the same with with effects that you control which trigger at the beginning of your opponent's upkeep, in the order that you wish. The stack will then resolve, top to bottom. So, if you stack your triggers correctly, then yes, you can have Havoc Festival's effect resolve before the enchantment that does a set amount of damage.



ShadowFactoryX said:


> what was the prerelease card?
> and what is the card for tomorrow?



There were 5 different pre-release promos, based on which guild you chose to play at an event. Azorius got Archon of the Triumvirate, Izzet got Hypersonic Dragon, Rakdos got Carnival Hellsteed, Golgari got Corpsejack Menace and Selesnya got Grove of the Guardian.

The release draft promo is Deadbridge Goliath, and the buy-a-box promo is Supreme Verdict.

________________________


I was able to acquire my cards a little early (keep that on the DL ) and so I built a white/green/black token deck that I'm eager to try out:

Creatures (21):
4 Arbor Elf
3 Pack Rat
3 Wayfaring Temple
3 Champion of Lambolt
2 Trostani, Selesnya's Voice
2 Geist-Honored Monk
2 Armada Wurm
2 Angel of Serenity

Enchantments (4):
2 Growing Ranks
2 Parallel Lives

Sorceries (8):
4 Call of the Conclave
4 Lingering Souls

Planeswalkers (3):
3 Vraska the Unseen

Lands (24):
3 Overgrown Tomb
3 Temple Garden
2 Isolated Chapel
4 Sunpetal Grove
3 Woodland Cemetery
2 Grove of the Guardian
5 Plains
2 Forest

Some changes I'm tinkering with are sideboarding the Vraskas in favor of Rootborn Defenses (which are currently in my sideboard), based on the amount of play that Bonfire of the Damned is currently seeing that that Mizzium Mortars is likely to see. I'm also hoping to fit in a Cathars' Crusade or two. And naturally, I want more Armada Wurms and Angel of Serenitys.

I don't think I'll be able to cut black completely based on how great Lingering Souls is (especially as a card to pitch to Pack Rat, which is also surprisingly effective), but thankfully my mana base seems completely stable that I'm not giving anything up currently to run black. Shocklands are just that awesome.


----------



## Asrial

That's a lot of land you are running there mate.

Personally, I'd ditch 2 lands in favor of some fetch. We got shocklands in standard along with farseek and rangers' path. Use it! 
Call of the Conclave is a decently cheap beatstick, but it seems out of place if you want to focus on the rats.
Thought about Deaths' presence? Even if a rat or a temple gets destroyed, you can just move counters to either a trample-dude or to a champion to ensure a direct hit next turn.


----------



## Xaios

Asrial said:


> That's a lot of land you are running there mate.
> 
> Personally, I'd ditch 2 lands in favor of some fetch. We got shocklands in standard along with farseek and rangers' path. Use it!
> Call of the Conclave is a decently cheap beatstick, but it seems out of place if you want to focus on the rats.
> Thought about Deaths' presence? Even if a rat or a temple gets destroyed, you can just move counters to either a trample-dude or to a champion to ensure a direct hit next turn.



The rats are only one part of the gameplan (and, truth be told, both extra lands and Call of the Conclave are excellent cards to pitch to it). They work great, but they're ultimately secondary to the W/G side of things.

Death's Presence is just too expensive to be worthwhile here. This deck definitely wants to clog the board, rather than having one or two alpha strikers. Then I drop Armada Wurm to trample or Angel of Serenity to clear the path and BLAMO! Death's Presence is more a card you would see in the new G/B zombies archetype. Also, loathe as I am to use this phrase... it's an EDH card.


----------



## Brill

What about intangible virture? I use it in all my token decks.its only a 2 drop for +1/1 and vigilance to all tokens.


----------



## Asrial

I find it extremely ironic, that I just pulled 3 Izzet rares and Niv himself from my half display.

I don't play Izzet! ARGH!


----------



## Xaios

Revised list. Pack Rats came out. I still like that card, but it's not for this deck.

New list:

Creatures (23):
3 Arbor Elf
3 Avacyn's Pilgrim
3 Champion of Lambholt
3 Angel of Jubilation (the new tech)
2 Trostani, Selesnya's Voice
2 Geist-Honored Monk
2 Thragtusk
3 Armada Wurm (acquired the 3rd)
2 Angel of Serenity

Enchantments (4):
2 Growing Ranks
2 Parallel Lives

Instants (3):
3 Selesnya Charm

Sorceries (7):
3 Call of the Conclave
4 Lingering Souls

Lands (23):
3 Overgrown Tomb
3 Temple Garden
2 Isolated Chapel
4 Sunpetal Grove
3 Woodland Cemetery
2 Grove of the Guardian
2 Forest
4 Plains

Vraska has been moved to the sideboard.

I like Angel of Jubilation in this deck, as she's a) a lord for all my creatures, and b) she shuts down Falkenrath Aristocrat.

I'm also well on my way to acquiring my set of Lotleth Trolls. Jund Zombies... will LIVE!


----------



## Slayer89

I opted to draft at FNM last night instead of standard. I still need 2 Lotleth Trolls and 3 Woodland Cemeteries for my Zombies (plus my shocks haven't come in the mail yet) which means I would have been on UW Control and didn't feel like durdling all night. Ended up going 2-1 in the draft and getting a couple extra packs out of it. Only cool pull was a foil Mizzium Mortars, but the format seems pretty fun.


----------



## Slayer89

Here's my Jund Zombies list

4 Gravecrawler
4 Diregraf Ghoul
4 Rakdos Shred-Freak
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Geralf's Messenger
3 Dreg Mangler
3 Falkenrath Aristocrat

3 Brimstone Volley
3 Tragic Slip
3 Sign in Blood
1 Dreadbore
1 Rancor

4 Blood Crypt
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Dragonskull Summit
4 Woodland Cemetery
3 Cavern of Souls
4 Swamp

Sideboard is currently under construction.


----------



## caskettheclown

Lecacy venser lockdown deck is almost complete except for a few commons from RTR I didn't get

Also the good stuff I got from RTR so far (From boosters)

Temple Garden
Worldspine Wurm
Loxodon Smiter
Lotleth Troll
Those are the money cards anyway  I'm happy.

Going to be making a selesnya standard deck once RTR has been out for a few weeks


----------



## Slayer89

Today I had time to kill and walked over to Target. Surprised that they had RtR in already, I decided to grab a pack for shits and gigs. Opened it to find my good buddy, Jace. I was pretty happy considering I was expecting stanky jank, lol.


----------



## Nile

WUG in standard seems to work really damn well.

Standard seems pretty dominated by control and mid-range atm.


----------



## Xaios

I dunno, I've been watching the coverage of Cincinnati SCG Open, and the format is FURIOUSLY fast. I don't know if control can keep up.


----------



## Brill

Nile said:


> WUG in standard seems to work really damn well.
> 
> Standard seems pretty dominated by control and mid-range atm.



Yeah. This guy at FNM ran this fucking awesome deck that was WUG. He had jace and trostani in there. Same with thragtusks and armada wurms.. Jaces fact or fiction is burutal..he did it and there was 2 thragtusks and a turminus, when i was versing him..


----------



## Slayer89

Well, Tod Anderson won the SCG Open with a Control deck, and 2 UW Control lists Top 8'd the TCG Player $5k Open, so I think we have a pretty balanced field right now. This is pretty impressive considering control usually doesn't show much the first couple weeks of a format. 

My two main decks are UW Control and Jund Zombies, so I'm enjoying both sides of the spectrum.


----------



## Nile

Actually mine does keep up pretty good against almost all the decks I've played. Only problem I have is people playing obnoxious mid/late game spam planeswalker decks.

@Loxofurry
I don't even play Jace or Armada Wurms. I might throw in one or two Jace, but mine is pretty much 3/4 drop creatures only with a shit ton of control.


----------



## Brill

If i infinite reflection corpsejack menance. Does that mean every creature will double 1/1 counters put onto something?


----------



## Xaios

Loxodrome said:


> If i infinite reflection corpsejack menance. Does that mean every creature will double 1/1 counters put onto something?



Yup.

Figuring out the number of counters would be X = (2^A)B, where X is the total number of counters you'll get, A is the number of Corpsejack Menaces you control, and B is the number of the number of counters that the original effect would have added.

So, let's say you cast Increasing Savagery on one of your dudes while controlling 4 total copies of Corpsejack Menace. In that case, X = (2^4)5. Solve for X, and you'll get 80 +1/+1 counters on that creature.


----------



## Brill

Xaios said:


> Yup.
> 
> Figuring out the number of counters would be X = (2^A)B, where X is the total number of counters you'll get, A is the number of Corpsejack Menaces you control, and B is the number of the number of counters that the original effect would have added.
> 
> So, let's say you cast Increasing Savagery on one of your dudes while controlling 4 total copies of Corpsejack Menace. In that case, X = (2^4)5. Solve for X, and you'll get 80 +1/+1 counters on that creature.



Man that wpuld be cool if it was effeciant.. Can you infinty reflection/clone a legendary and not have it destroy itsself?

Also any tips on a r/w aggro deck? Im thinking stromkirk noble, champipn of the parish, that vampire that gets 1/1 counters when creatures die, tatcjers revalt and gizzela (the r/w angle i cany spell her name well..).


----------



## Asrial

To the "reflect a legend": No. When you copy a creature, you essentially copy whatever attributes it has, including the name. If you put down a "Clone", and target an Avacyn, that clone is now an Avacyn, and since there now is 2 on the battlefield, both is put into the graveyard.

To R/W aggro: I would really consider waiting for Gatecrash, because Boros is re-introduced there, with a lot of R/W exclusives. But right now, I'd say you'd be good with some Vexing devils and Rakdos cacklers.


----------



## Xaios

Everything Asrial said is pretty well exactly right. The only way to copy a legendary and not have both die is with either Sakashima the Impostor or Mirror Gallery, and neither is currently Standard-legal.


----------



## ShadowFactoryX

collumbus day blows
cause i got a lot of incoming NRtRD


----------



## Slayer89

I'm waiting on some stuff, too, haha. Luckily half of it got here Saturday.


----------



## Brill

So i made a red/black discard deck. It needs some work but it looks something like this:
4 x skull rend
4 x Slaughter games
4 x auger spree
1 x desecration demon
2 x grave betrayal
2 x shimian specter
1 x pack rat
4 x mind rot
3 x ravenous rats
2 x wits end
4 x shrieking affliction
2 x sign in blood
1 x rakdos charm
3 x drain pipe vermin
2 x duress
11 x swamp
4 x rakdos gate
1 x blood crypt
5 x mountain

Any suggestions? Im thinking black cats and more shimian specters..


----------



## Xaios

If you're gonna use a 3 CMC removal spell, it might as well be Murder instead of Auger Spree, although I'd recommend dropping it down to 2 CMC. I would probably use a mix between Ultimate Price and Victim of Night.

Also, Wit's End is terribly expensive. Use Rakdos' Returns instead, it's more flexible and hits their life total as well.

Lastly, you need more actual threats. Put Slaughter Games in the sideboard and put some more creatures in there.


----------



## Asrial

Every time a see a loose deck list without links, I cringe. T_T (Use tappedout or any deck building site!)

Okay, first up; Gates? Why on earth do you want to use gates in constructed? I can understand it if those are the only appropriate dual lands you got at hand at the moment, but IMO, you should seriously use more blood crypts and dragonskull summits instead.
Rakdos charm isn't good in a main deck. More often than not, you are going to use its third ability, and even then, it's more likely than not that you have more creatures than the opponent. Good move, eh?
Wits end is horrid. At the time you are able to cast it, it's only going to ever hit for 2 or 3. I'd personally rather throw a mind rot, hit then cast my Rakdos.
Slaughter games... Why? That card is incredibly niche, and unless you plan to string them up, one after the other (which is extremely expensive) to first spy then remove the insane beaters you've spotted, it's gonna be wasted potential.

And personally, I'd rather see some more aggro than hand-emptying stuff. Some Vexing devils, Cacklers and Shred-freaks just to handle enemy fire. Relying on Shrieking Affliction alone is a rather large stretch as a winning tactic.
Also, how much work do you think Grave betrayal is going to do, when you got so limited removal? Only way I can see that card do something is when you auger a relatively weak creature, or 2-for-1 their big fatty boom-boom in the really really late game where I can't see this deck going.

TL;DR: You rely too heavily on a single card to do the bulk, while you got a lot of "filler".


----------



## Xaios

^ That. 

I've never been terribly good at designing B/R decks, so you're best to take Asrial's advice. I'm more of a Bant man.


----------



## Brill

Asrial said:


> Every time a see a loose deck list without links, I cringe. T_T (Use tappedout or any deck building site!)
> 
> Okay, first up; Gates? Why on earth do you want to use gates in constructed? I can understand it if those are the only appropriate dual lands you got at hand at the moment, but IMO, you should seriously use more blood crypts and dragonskull summits instead.
> Rakdos charm isn't good in a main deck. More often than not, you are going to use its third ability, and even then, it's more likely than not that you have more creatures than the opponent. Good move, eh?
> Wits end is horrid. At the time you are able to cast it, it's only going to ever hit for 2 or 3. I'd personally rather throw a mind rot, hit then cast my Rakdos.
> Slaughter games... Why? That card is incredibly niche, and unless you plan to string them up, one after the other (which is extremely expensive) to first spy then remove the insane beaters you've spotted, it's gonna be wasted potential.
> 
> And personally, I'd rather see some more aggro than hand-emptying stuff. Some Vexing devils, Cacklers and Shred-freaks just to handle enemy fire. Relying on Shrieking Affliction alone is a rather large stretch as a winning tactic.
> Also, how much work do you think Grave betrayal is going to do, when you got so limited removal? Only way I can see that card do something is when you auger a relatively weak creature, or 2-for-1 their big fatty boom-boom in the really really late game where I can't see this deck going.
> 
> TL;DR: You rely too heavily on a single card to do the bulk, while you got a lot of "filler".


Thanks.. Yeah the gates ard shit, thry are mainly place holders for shock/dual lands.
I havent seen anyone pull a rakdos return... So i havent had the chance ti trade fot one.. The gravr betrayal was mainly me seeing if it i could use it. Also sorry about no links, om on a phone, which takes fucking forever to type things.. Im going to put some vexing devils, desecration demons and some other little rakdos thingies.. Maybe another pack rats... Im going to drop the wits end and the charm..


----------



## ShadowFactoryX

you can pick up the dragonskull summits fairly cheap, definitely a better route to go.


----------



## Asrial

Yeah, Dragonskulls are around 4$ a piece for me right now, so even on a budget, those lands should be managable.
Maybe for slower aggro, but Necropolis regent is a fairly inexpensive mythic, that can make your small creatures rack up on some serious damage. Tormented soul can get stupidly good with this baby, but then again, the deck might lose too much focus.

Building a deck solely around having an opponent with no hand is, again, a little too focused and brittle a strategy, especially if you play against a B/G control who got either mad luck or is madly stacked with Vraskas and A.Decays. Move focus onto some nice beaters, and let them decide if that single A.Decay is worth blowing on your 4/3, so your Shrieking Affliction will kick in. 
As suggested; snipe yourself a Rakdos' return, and try to focus your card draws so you don't have an awful lot of 1-offs or 2-offs, unless you can tutor them somehow.


----------



## Xaios

I opened a Rakdos's Return in my Izzet sealed pool, was enough to convince me to splash black for Grixis. During one game, I dropped a T3 Keyrune, T4 Skull Rend, T5 Rakdos's Return for X=4. He was not pleased. 

Damn good thing Blightning isn't Standard-legal.


----------



## Nile

Xaios said:


> Damn good thing Blightning isn't Standard-legal.



THIS

Shit would be insane.


----------



## PyramidSmasher

Played in a draft today, and the set is pretty cool. The only card I kept from it though was Imposter Fairie because its such a classic fairie


----------



## Xaios

So, since the new set got spoiled, I had a feeling that there was some awesome potential to create a Green/Black/White reanimator deck. Alas, I didn't really know where to start. I just love playing Karador EDH decks, so I knew it had to be possible. 

And then I see Gerry Thompson's new decklist for exactly that and realize, "Hey! I've got all the cards to build this sucker!"

While I know I have the same number of lands as his deck, I'm not sure of the exact composition of his landbase, as it wasn't entirely visible in the video he made, but I think I've got a good approximation.

This is the list, and so far, it's a blast to play.

Creatures (19):
4 Arbor Elf
4 Avacyn's Pilgrim
1 Deathrite Shaman
2 Lotleth Troll
4 Thragtusk
1 Angel of Glory's Rise (With all the zombies running rampant, he figures it's prudent.)
2 Angel of Serenity
1 Griselbrand

Intants (4):
4 Grisly Salvage

Sorceries (14):
4 Mulch
4 Lingering Souls
2 Jarad's Orders
4 Unburial Rites

Lands (23):
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Temple Garden
2 Isolated Chapel
2 Sunpetal Grove
3 Woodland Cemetery
1 Gavony Township
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Forest
1 Plains
4 Swamp


----------



## Brill

Xaios said:


> So, since the new set got spoiled, I had a feeling that there was some awesome potential to create a Green/Black/White reanimator deck. Alas, I didn't really know where to start. I just love playing Karador EDH decks, so I knew it had to be possible.
> 
> And then I see Gerry Thompson's new decklist for exactly that and realize, "Hey! I've got all the cards to build this sucker!"
> 
> While I know I have the same number of lands as his deck, I'm not sure of the exact composition of his landbase, as it wasn't entirely visible in the video he made, but I think I've got a good approximation.
> 
> This is the list, and so far, it's a blast to play.
> 
> Creatures (19):
> 4 Arbor Elf
> 4 Avacyn's Pilgrim
> 1 Deathrite Shaman
> 2 Lotleth Troll
> 4 Thragtusk
> 1 Angel of Glory's Rise (With all the zombies running rampant, he figures it's prudent.)
> 2 Angel of Serenity
> 1 Griselbrand
> 
> Intants (4):
> 4 Grisly Salvage
> 
> Sorceries (14):
> 4 Mulch
> 4 Lingering Souls
> 2 Jarad's Orders
> 4 Unburial Rites
> 
> Lands (23):
> 4 Overgrown Tomb
> 4 Temple Garden
> 2 Isolated Chapel
> 2 Sunpetal Grove
> 3 Woodland Cemetery
> 1 Gavony Township
> 1 Vault of the Archangel
> 1 Forest
> 1 Plains
> 4 Swamp




Shouldnt you have good strong creatures to reanimate?


----------



## Brill

Xaios said:


> Damn good thing Blightning isn't Standard-legal.



Skull rend is close. But it costs m9re and only. Deals 2 damage.

I went to buy some boosters today. I got 4 DA,3 AVR, 1 m13 and 1 rtr. I pulled a gerafis messenger, which made me happy


----------



## Xaios

Loxodrome said:


> Shouldnt you have good strong creatures to reanimate?



Uh... you think Griselbrand and Angel of Serenity AREN'T good strong creatures? You realize that Griselbrand is pretty much the most powerful creature ever printed not named Emrakul, right?


----------



## Asrial

^Griselbrand is stronk, but I wouldn't call him *that* awesome. You need to actually hit with him (or have a good HP) before having a good opportunity to draw a new hand. He's up there in value, but in anything else than reanimator, he's just too hard to cast and can really hurt you if you get caught off-guard. Plus, we got tons of spot-removal in the format right now, with surely more to come.
But other than that, the deck seems like a nice package. I'd say though, that you should get rid of the deathrite and add another Lotleth.
It seems fairly counterproductive for a reanimator-deck to use a card that can exile your own reanimate-targets, while another Lotleth for good measure enables a fairly good beater and a stacked grave for later abuse on a more consistent level.


----------



## Xaios

Asrial said:


> ^Griselbrand is stronk, but I wouldn't call him *that* awesome. You need to actually hit with him (or have a good HP) before having a good opportunity to draw a new hand. He's up there in value, but in anything else than reanimator, he's just too hard to cast and can really hurt you if you get caught off-guard. Plus, we got tons of spot-removal in the format right now, with surely more to come.



It's a good thing that it's a reanimator deck, otherwise spot removal would be a problem. 

Also, Thragtusk goes a long way to letting me use Griselbrand's ability early.



Asrial said:


> But other than that, the deck seems like a nice package. I'd say though, that you should get rid of the deathrite and add another Lotleth.
> It seems fairly counterproductive for a reanimator-deck to use a card that can exile your own reanimate-targets, while another Lotleth for good measure enables a fairly good beater and a stacked grave for later abuse on a more consistent level.



I would never use that ability on my own creature in the yard, but a) it's handy in the mirror match to hit creatures in my opponent's yard, and b) its ability to exile a land from the yard after getting put there by Grisly Salvage can accel you into a turn 3 Unburial Rites if you cast Deathrite Shaman turn 1, Grisly Salvage turn 2 and end up with a land, a creature and an Unburial Rites in the graveyard. Turn 4 if you cast Unburial Rites from your hand.

Also, with all the non-creature spells floating around and the specter of Snapcaster Mage still looming, the ability to exile an instant or sorcery card from my opponent's graveyard as my opponent tries to give it Flashback can be a real help.

Trust me though, Deathrite Shaman works really nicely, a lot better than you might think at first glance.



Loxodrome said:


> Skull rend is close. But it costs m9re and only. Deals 2 damage.



The problem is that the extra 2 mana and the 1 less damage makes all the difference in the world as to whether or not it's constructable.


----------



## Asrial

Okay, I did not read Deathrite correctly. Damn. That card just got way better in my book.


----------



## Xaios

Asrial said:


> Okay, I did not read Deathrite correctly. Damn. That card just got way better in my book.



Indeed. It even has some Legacy implication as tech against Maverick and Tarmogoyf (although Scavenging Ooze is probably better at both late game). T1 Deathright Shaman, T2 play your land drop and use the shaman to munch the fetchland that your opponent used, cast 3 drop. It has the potential to be almost as good as Noble Hierarch in a non-Maverick deck.

EDIT: Also, I just realized that it's an elf. Yay tribal synergy!


----------



## caskettheclown

Me and my friend are going to split a booster box. We figure for an extra ten bucks than a fat pack we will get double the boosters 



EDIT

Instead of doing a double post i'll just say what happened. My friend backed out at the last second due to unforeseen circumstances.
So I just said "screw it" and bought it myself and split it with my girlfriend on the condition that she gets most of the holographics (She loves them) and I get some of the "money" cards cause knowing me I was going to trade them in for stuff I really wanted that I didn't get.

SOOO, she gets a fuckload of dual lands. I get a few and I pull a Jace and a few other money cards that I wasn't going to use. I traded the jace and a couple other things and got a Jace the Mind Sculptor and a couple deck boxes (One for me and one for the girlfriend, she wanted one to match her card sleeves). I'm more of a legacy player so I chose to get the mind sculptor while I could cause I think the new Jace is going to go down in price in a couple months.


----------



## Xaios

Built a new version of Reanimator today.

*FOUR COLORS, BABY!*

Believe it or not, the mana base is actually incredibly stable. Shocklands are just _that_ good, especially paired with checklands.

Creatures (11):
2 Centaur Healer
4 Thragtusk
3 Angel of Serenity
1 Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
1 Griselbrand

Instants (4):
4 Grisly Salvage

Sorceries (21):
4 Faithless Looting
3 Dreadbore
4 Mulch
4 Lingering Souls
2 Sever the Bloodline
4 Unburial Rites

Lands (24):
4 Blood Crypt
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Temple Garden
3 Clifftop Retreat
3 Rootbound Crag
3 Sunpetal Grove
3 Woodland Cemetery

It's a bit slower than the other build, but it also shores up some other weaknesses in the deck, mainly ability to deal with planeswalkers, and also provides more card filtering.


----------



## Brill

Im trying to make a Green/Red/Black agro deck. (jund right?)
So far ivr got a few things down for it that i need to get. (people told me to get links, but i dont know how to do them good)
2-3 x Falkenrath Aristocrat - Dark Ascension, Magic: the Gathering - Online Gaming Store for Cards, Miniatures, Singles, Packs & Booster Boxes
4 x Geralf&#39;s Messenger - Dark Ascension, Magic: the Gathering - Online Gaming Store for Cards, Miniatures, Singles, Packs & Booster Boxes 
4 x Lotleth Troll - Return to Ravnica, Magic: the Gathering - Online Gaming Store for Cards, Miniatures, Singles, Packs & Booster Boxes
4 x Gravecrawler - Dark Ascension, Magic: the Gathering - Online Gaming Store for Cards, Miniatures, Singles, Packs & Booster Boxes
4 x Dreg Mangler - Return to Ravnica, Magic: the Gathering - Online Gaming Store for Cards, Miniatures, Singles, Packs & Booster Boxes
4 x Blood Artist - Avacyn Restored, Magic: the Gathering - Online Gaming Store for Cards, Miniatures, Singles, Packs & Booster Boxes 

Any tips? Im thinking more sac fodder for the aristocrat. Maybe a tragtusk. And hunts master of the fells.


----------



## caskettheclown

Xaios said:


> Built a new version of Reanimator today.
> 
> *FOUR COLORS, BABY!*
> 
> Believe it or not, the mana base is actually incredibly stable. Shocklands are just _that_ good, especially paired with checklands.
> 
> Creatures (11):
> 2 Centaur Healer
> 4 Thragtusk
> 3 Angel of Serenity
> 1 Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
> 1 Griselbrand
> 
> Instants (4):
> 4 Grisly Salvage
> 
> Sorceries (21):
> 4 Faithless Looting
> 3 Dreadbore
> 4 Mulch
> 4 Lingering Souls
> 2 Sever the Bloodline
> 4 Unburial Rites
> 
> Lands (24):
> 4 Blood Crypt
> 4 Overgrown Tomb
> 4 Temple Garden
> 3 Clifftop Retreat
> 3 Rootbound Crag
> 3 Sunpetal Grove
> 3 Woodland Cemetery
> 
> It's a bit slower than the other build, but it also shores up some other weaknesses in the deck, mainly ability to deal with planeswalkers, and also provides more card filtering.



I love the way this looks so far. Mind if I give it a try on cockatrice?


----------



## caskettheclown

Loxodrome said:


> Im trying to make a Green/Red/Black agro deck. (jund right?)
> So far ivr got a few things down for it that i need to get. (people told me to get links, but i dont know how to do them good)
> 2-3 x Falkenrath Aristocrat - Dark Ascension, Magic: the Gathering - Online Gaming Store for Cards, Miniatures, Singles, Packs & Booster Boxes
> 4 x Geralf's Messenger - Dark Ascension, Magic: the Gathering - Online Gaming Store for Cards, Miniatures, Singles, Packs & Booster Boxes
> 4 x Lotleth Troll - Return to Ravnica, Magic: the Gathering - Online Gaming Store for Cards, Miniatures, Singles, Packs & Booster Boxes
> 4 x Gravecrawler - Dark Ascension, Magic: the Gathering - Online Gaming Store for Cards, Miniatures, Singles, Packs & Booster Boxes
> 4 x Dreg Mangler - Return to Ravnica, Magic: the Gathering - Online Gaming Store for Cards, Miniatures, Singles, Packs & Booster Boxes
> 4 x Blood Artist - Avacyn Restored, Magic: the Gathering - Online Gaming Store for Cards, Miniatures, Singles, Packs & Booster Boxes
> 
> Any tips? Im thinking more sac fodder for the aristocrat. Maybe a tragtusk. And hunts master of the fells.


Depending on the manabase I would go with both. Definitely Thragtusk though if your manabase can get it consistently. Huntsmaster's abilities aren't as good as thragtusk in my opinion unless you can get multiple tokens out of him somehow.

On a less serious note (Cause i'm just trying to be a bit funny and its out of standard now) you could do 






In casual decks I always use him to sac if I can, just cause I can do it many times a turn. Just funny to watch people's faces.


----------



## Asrial

With all this deckbuilding going on, I've decided to try and design a Jund-deck in the modern format.
Here's the list
As every other Jund-deck, it revolves around cascade, and swinging in for tons and tons very fast.
The top of the manacurve is at 5, so as soon as turn 5, hell breaks loose with Bituminous blasts and Bloodbraid elfs just cascading into more elfs, blightning, bolts and fatties.
The only card that's not able to be cascaded is Vulturous zombie, which is an experiment. If I can get him out, he can grow very ugly very fast due to the amount of removal the deck sports.


----------



## Xaios

caskettheclown said:


> I love the way this looks so far. Mind if I give it a try on cockatrice?



Be my guest. Most of the list is another Gerry Thompson concoction anyway, although throwing Gisela in was my idea. 

He also mainboards Rolling Temblor, whereas they're sideboarded for me.


----------



## Xaios

Asrial said:


> With all this deckbuilding going on, I've decided to try and design a Jund-deck in the modern format.
> Here's the list
> As every other Jund-deck, it revolves around cascade, and swinging in for tons and tons very fast.
> The top of the manacurve is at 5, so as soon as turn 5, hell breaks loose with Bituminous blasts and Bloodbraid elfs just cascading into more elfs, blightning, bolts and fatties.
> The only card that's not able to be cascaded is Vulturous zombie, which is an experiment. If I can get him out, he can grow very ugly very fast due to the amount of removal the deck sports.



Looks pretty cool. While I don't play Modern, how bout throwing in some Maelstrom Pulses?


----------



## Asrial

^Yeah, Maelstrom is definately a staple in Jund decks. Problem is, is that card is expensive. I can buy a playset of Maelstrom, or a playset of Jace Architect (as a price comparison).

And upon goldfishing, the deck has won on turn 7 on average of 20 games.
Vulturous zombie is, as I guessed it, too slow. Jund charm, which I would've though should go to the sideboard, performs incredibly well, as it hates on Dredge/Reanimator (often for free), burns creeps or pumps my own.
Ulasht is a roamer, and I can't really test him out vs. some later scenarios.
Rumbling slum is fantastic. Why doesn't Jund-players use him more often?!


----------



## Brill

Can i give a vexing devil undying as it enters the field? Before my oponent chooses to sac it?


----------



## caskettheclown

Loxodrome said:


> Can i give a vexing devil undying as it enters the field? Before my oponent chooses to sac it?



I don't think so but I may be wrong. Since it is a triggered ability, I imagine the opponent must make a choice before it resolves.


----------



## Xaios

Loxodrome said:


> Can i give a vexing devil undying as it enters the field? Before my oponent chooses to sac it?



You can, but you would have to do so before your opponent makes their choice, as the choice happens on resolution of the triggered ability, which means you wouldn't be able to respond once they've made it. So if you were to give your Vexing Devil Undying until the end of turn with the sac-or-not ability on the stack, your opponent would just say "okay, I'll let it stick." It's not a bad way to ensure that it sticks, but if you're expecting to do 4 damage to your opponent and end up with a 5/4 creature all for 2 mana, prepare to be disappointed.


----------



## Xaios

Asrial said:


> ^Yeah, Maelstrom is definately a staple in Jund decks. Problem is, is that card is expensive. I can buy a playset of Maelstrom, or a playset of Jace Architect (as a price comparison).



Um... what? Maelstrom Pulses are worth $12 apiece, while Jace, AOT are currently worth $50 each.



Asrial said:


> And upon goldfishing, the deck has won on turn 7 on average of 20 games. Vulturous zombie is, as I guessed it, too slow. Jund charm, which I would've though should go to the sideboard, performs incredibly well, as it hates on Dredge/Reanimator (often for free), burns creeps or pumps my own. Ulasht is a roamer, and I can't really test him out vs. some later scenarios. Rumbling slum is fantastic. Why doesn't Jund-players use him more often?!



If I could offer a suggestion, maybe try Burning-Tree Shaman? It's efficiently sized, fits well into your Cascade curve, and punishes Splinter Twin.

EDIT: Have to remember I'm not posting on MTGS.


----------



## Asrial

Maelstrom pulse was 150 dkk (26$), while Jace was 200 dkk (35$) when I last checked it.
Now, maelstrom dropped to 99 (17$), while Jace leapt to 333 (58$). Wow.


----------



## Slayer89

Played in States yesterday with the following list.

4 Gravecrawler
4 Diregraf Ghoul
4 Rakdos Shred-Freak
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Geralf's Messenger
3 Dreg Mangler
3 Falkenrath Aristocrat

3 Brimstone Volley
3 Crippling Blight
2 Ultimate Price
1 Dreadbore
2 Rancor

4 Blood Crypt
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Dragonskull Summit
4 Woodland Cemetery
3 Cavern of Souls
4 Swamp

1 Appetite For Brains
3 Duress
1 Zealous Conscripts
2 Rakdos Charm
1 Golgari Charm
2 Vampire Nighthawk
1 Underworld Connections
3 Pillar of Flames
1 ? (totally spacing)
(Sideboard was a throw together mainly focusing on Control and the Mirror)

About 200 people showed up and I managed to go undefeated in the 8 rounds of Swiss (ID'd the last two rounds for a secure Top 8 slot with 6-0-2). Sadly my luck ran out in the quarter finals where I got two great opening hands followed by nothing but dead draws. Still pretty happy with the Top 8 Mat, 18 packs, and $25 credit to Troll and Toad (which I used to get my 4th Snapcaster). Ended up 6th overall. It was so crazy during my last round I was at table 1, my friend who's playing in Pro Tour Seattle in a week was next to me, and then Gerry Thompson next to him. Fun day.

My Haul


----------



## Brill

If i have a falkenrath aristrocrat. Is there a limit on how many creatures i can sac per turn? and if i gain control of someone elses creature can i sac it?


----------



## Xaios

Loxodrome said:


> If i have a falkenrath aristrocrat. Is there a limit on how many creatures i can sac per turn? and if i gain control of someone elses creature can i sac it?



1) No.
2) Yes.


----------



## Brill

Xaios said:


> 1) No.
> 2) Yes.



So i could tibalt ultimate. Then sac all of my opponants creatures?


----------



## Xaios

Loxodrome said:


> So i could tibalt ultimate. Then sac all of my opponants creatures?



Yes. Good luck with that though. All the best MTG deckbuilders have tried to break Tibalt. None have succeeded. There's a reason he's a $3.50 card despite being a) mythic rare, b) a planeswalker, and c) standard legal: he is _easily_ the worst planeswalker ever printed. If he allowed you to choose which card to discard, he would be much better. Alas, he doesn't.

When both cards were still worth $25 shortly after AVR was released, I traded the 2 Tibalts I opened for 2 Cavern of Souls. One of those cards is still worth $25. The other... not so much.


----------



## Asrial

The fact that they make a duel deck with Tibalt vs Sorin just makes that fact so much more hilarious. Yet I'm intrigued to see how they can make a deck that works "well" with 1xTibalt.


----------



## Nile

They had a good opportunity with Tibalt, but man did they make it trash.


----------



## Brill

New deck that im hoping to build. 
3 x Infinite Reflection Price from Avacyn Restored - Magic the Gathering Deck Card (MTG)
3 x Corpsejack Menace Price from Return to Ravnica - Magic the Gathering Deck Card (MTG)
3 x Dreg Mangler Price from Return to Ravnica - Magic the Gathering Deck Card (MTG)
3 x Increasing Savagery Price from Dark Ascension - Magic the Gathering Deck Card (MTG)
3 x http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/magic_single_card.asp?cn=Slitherhead&sn=Return to Ravnica0
3 x http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/magic_single_card.asp?cn=Rewind&sn=Magic 2013 (M13)
3 x http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/magic_single_card.asp?cn=Essence Scatter&sn=Magic 2013 (M13)
3 x Cancel Price from Return to Ravnica - Magic the Gathering Deck Card (MTG)
3 x Think Twice Price from Innistrad - Magic the Gathering Deck Card (MTG)
3 x http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/magic_single_card.asp?cn=Tormented Soul&sn=Magic 2013 (M13)
3 x Thought Scour Price from Dark Ascension - Magic the Gathering Deck Card (MTG)
2 x http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/magic_single_card.asp?cn=Ranger's Path&sn=Magic 2013 (M13)
3 x http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/magic_single_card.asp?cn=Arbor Elf&sn=Magic 2013 (M13) 

Its based around spell counters and mega plus 1 counters
Ive got thought scour in there to stop miricals, dose that works like in response to them evealing it, i mill it?


----------



## WhiteWalls

Bets are open: how much gear will I have to sell to fuel my addiction for return to ravnica drafts?


----------



## Xaios

WhiteWalls said:


> Bets are open: how much gear will I have to sell to fuel my addiction for return to ravnica drafts?



All of it. 



Loxodrome said:


> New deck that im hoping to build.
> 3 x Infinite Reflection Price from Avacyn Restored - Magic the Gathering Deck Card (MTG)
> 3 x Corpsejack Menace Price from Return to Ravnica - Magic the Gathering Deck Card (MTG)
> 3 x Dreg Mangler Price from Return to Ravnica - Magic the Gathering Deck Card (MTG)
> 3 x Increasing Savagery Price from Dark Ascension - Magic the Gathering Deck Card (MTG)
> 3 x http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/magic_single_card.asp?cn=Slitherhead&sn=Return to Ravnica0
> 3 x http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/magic_single_card.asp?cn=Rewind&sn=Magic 2013 (M13)
> 3 x http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/magic_single_card.asp?cn=Essence Scatter&sn=Magic 2013 (M13)
> 3 x Cancel Price from Return to Ravnica - Magic the Gathering Deck Card (MTG)
> 3 x Think Twice Price from Innistrad - Magic the Gathering Deck Card (MTG)
> 3 x http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/magic_single_card.asp?cn=Tormented Soul&sn=Magic 2013 (M13)
> 3 x Thought Scour Price from Dark Ascension - Magic the Gathering Deck Card (MTG)
> 2 x http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/magic_single_card.asp?cn=Ranger's Path&sn=Magic 2013 (M13)
> 3 x http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/magic_single_card.asp?cn=Arbor Elf&sn=Magic 2013 (M13)
> 
> Its based around spell counters and mega plus 1 counters
> Ive got thought scour in there to stop miricals, dose that works like in response to them evealing it, i mill it?



No, because by the time they reveal it, they've alreaedy drawn it. A regular draw at the beginning of a person's draw step is also a state-based effect that circumvents the stack. Sure, you could mill the top card of their library during their upkeep, but you may well mill them right into a miracle.

I'm not a fan of this decklist, to be honest. You're combining cards that are devoted to every major archetype (aggro, combo, control, ramp) and mashing them together. The problem is that they simply won't mesh. The mana curve is terrible (you've got twice as many 1 and 4 drops as you do 2 and 3 drops), the creature base is not particularly strong can be chump blocked all day, and your "combo" is both expensive and extremely easy to disrupt.

Also, there is literally no conceivable reason to run Cancel while Dissipate is Standard-legal.

EDIT: I'm going to try and improve this list.


----------



## Xaios

This is the decklist I hashed out for you:

Creatures (25):
3 Gravecrawler
2 Slitherhead
4 Lotleth Troll
3 Quirion Dryad
3 Geralf's Messenger
3 Dreg Mangler
4 Corpsejack Menace
3 Deadbridge Goliath

Instants (12):
3 Syncopate
2 Dissipate
3 Cackling Counterpart
4 Forbidden Alchemy

This particular list runs a shell of countermagic. Depending on your meta, it maybe more beneficial to run straight kill spells instead.


----------



## Brill

Xaios said:


> This is the decklist I hashed out for you:
> 
> Creatures (25):
> 3 Gravecrawler
> 2 Slitherhead
> 4 Lotleth Troll
> 3 Quirion Dryad
> 3 Geralf's Messenger
> 3 Dreg Mangler
> 4 Corpsejack Menace
> 3 Deadbridge Goliath
> 
> Instants (12):
> 3 Syncopate
> 2 Dissipate
> 3 Cackling Counterpart
> 4 Forbidden Alchemy
> 
> This particular list runs a shell of countermagic. Depending on your meta, it maybe more beneficial to run straight kill spells instead.



Thank for the suggestion.. But half of those cards i cant get, no one will trade them..ive even tried to buy them. But still they wont give them up..


----------



## Xaios

Loxodrome said:


> Thank for the suggestion.. But half of those cards i cant get, no one will trade them..ive even tried to buy them. But still they wont give them up..



Yeah, I can certainly see how that would be a hindrance. I've been quite fortunate with RTR in my trading, although I spent a fair chunk of change as well. I've certainly encountered resistance to trading chase cards lately based on A) people overvaluing cards in their possession while undervaluing cards they're trying to acquire, and B) people not trading away cards unless they get what they get what they think they will be worth instead of what it is (Although only if they're expecting the cards that they're trading away to rise in value. If they think it will drop, they want no less than SCG prices.)


----------



## Brill

Xaios said:


> Yeah, I can certainly see how that would be a hindrance. I've been quite fortunate with RTR in my trading, although I spent a fair chunk of change as well. I've certainly encountered resistance to trading chase cards lately based on A) people overvaluing cards in their possession while undervaluing cards they're trying to acquire, and B) people not trading away cards unless they get what they get what they think they will be worth instead of what it is (Although only if they're expecting the cards that they're trading away to rise in value. If they think it will drop, they want no less than SCG prices.)



I didnt know the value of steam vents... I traded 3.. One was foil for a stupid thing.... 

I want to make a bolas/ grixis deck.. Any tips? Im thinking of using tamyio and maybe m13 liliana....and of corse bolas. But other than that im clueless.. I really like thr look of alara grixis and would like to make a standard version.


----------



## caskettheclown

Asrial said:


> The fact that they make a duel deck with Tibalt vs Sorin just makes that fact so much more hilarious. Yet I'm intrigued to see how they can make a deck that works "well" with 1xTibalt.




I'm more interested in the Sorin deck myself . I've regretted getting my girlfriend Sorin Markov for her monoblack deck. When we play, I usually use my black/blue deck and gain a good bit of life through equisite blood and nighthawk and things like that, then she just pulls him out and BOOM i'm back down to ten and she usually demolishes me a turn or so after that.

I hope its Sorin Markov monoblack deck and not lord of Innistrad cause it'll probably have some good stuff in it I want haha


----------



## Nile

Loxodrome said:


> I didnt know the value of steam vents... I traded 3.. One was foil for a stupid thing....



Sad to say it but you had some pretty desirable cards.


----------



## Xaios

Bahahaha, I just noticed something...

Check the artist:






Drawn by the Douchebag Maestro himself!


----------



## Brill

Made a four colour agro deck(all colors but blue). Ive played 3 games with it, i won 1 and the other 2 were ver close.. I just needed an extra red land. So next job is to get more dual lands.


----------



## ShadowFactoryX

Xaios said:


> Bahahaha, I just noticed something..
> 
> Drawn by the Douchebag Maestro himself!


reference unknown?

I have an extra hallowed fountain to trade/sell if anyone wants one


----------



## Nile

So i'm tempted to trade a bunch of modern/standard legal rares that are kinda trashy, some good ones, worth about 53 dollars, to someone. I'll add enough money to hit 80 dollars, then proceed to gain a Gaea's Cradle. Bunch of rares that will probably go down in value at some point traded away? Yes please. Gain a card that is pretty stable and can rise in price? Yes please.

That paragraph was an atrocity to the English language, but you get the gist of it.


----------



## WhiteWalls

They're streaming the pro tour right now in case anyone is interested: MagicProTour


----------



## Xaios

Nile said:


> So i'm tempted to trade a bunch of modern/standard legal rares that are kinda trashy, some good ones, worth about 53 dollars, to someone. I'll add enough money to hit 80 dollars, then proceed to gain a Gaea's Cradle. Bunch of rares that will probably go down in value at some point traded away? Yes please. Gain a card that is pretty stable and can rise in price? Yes please.


----------



## Asrial

Holy shit, I got another ludicrous FNM story to tell.

My first buddy went into the store, and sold his Jace AoT, along with some other rares, bought a booster display with the money, and in his 5th or so booster... He gets another Jace. Wat.

My neighbor, in his first booster, gets Vraska. Not satisfied yet? Well, the dude to his right opens a foil Vraska in his second booster. Wat.

I got a foil Dreadbore from earlier, which I can't really use since I'm not into Rakdos in contructed, so I trade that and a Precinct captain for an Isperia and a Martial law. Money-wise, bad trade, but the store didn't want to buy it since they got it in bulk, plus I'd just take it as a friendly move, so I went with it. The guy I traded with got, in his first pack, an Isperia. Wat.

I decide, that upon a mediocre draft to get myself some boosters and pay off gas-money in packs to the driver (the dude who got Jace). I pick an INN, AVA and RtR, because hey, I still miss alot of random rares I can put into my collection-binder, so why not just take some boosters and roll with a high chance of rares I haven't gotten yet?
In the INN, I get Back from the brink. Already got that one, k. AVA, I open an Otherworld atlas. Also got that one, in foil even. RtR, I GET A MYTHIC... Necropolis regent, which I can't use at all. And I also already have one.


----------



## Brill

No more FNM for a while.. Good thing is hes getting a bigger store..

So there are like 5-7 people that are there.. Like always sometimes more, its a rural own.. So they are all dicks, like super arrogrant and always want to jid you in a trade... I really needed bolases and dual lands. He wanted my jace (to bring him up to 5) and my trostani.. So hes like "everything is worth double tonight." i really needed them so i got 2 bolases a lily of the dark relme. 2 mutilate 4 increasing vengances 2 sulfer falls 2 desolate lighthouses 2 reapers from the abyss.... Im sick of people fucking me over in every deal i make... 
Anyone know a good place to buy cards online? That ships to Australia.


----------



## Xaios

So yeah, my buddy bought the most ridiculous fat pack tonight, which contained...

- Worldspine Wurm
- foil Wayfaring Temple
- Loxodon Smiter
- Abrupt Decay
- Hallowed Fountain
- Angel of Serenity
- *foil* Jace, Architect of Thought

My jaw, the floor it did hit.


----------



## Xaios

Loxodrome said:


> No more FNM for a while.. Good thing is hes getting a bigger store..
> 
> So there are like 5-7 people that are there.. Like always sometimes more, its a rural own.. So they are all dicks, like super arrogrant and always want to jid you in a trade... I really needed bolases and dual lands. He wanted my jace (to bring him up to 5) and my trostani.. So hes like "everything is worth double tonight." i really needed them so i got 2 bolases a lily of the dark relme. 2 mutilate 4 increasing vengances 2 sulfer falls 2 desolate lighthouses 2 reapers from the abyss.... Im sick of people fucking me over in every deal i make...
> Anyone know a good place to buy cards online? That ships to Australia.



The easiest way not to get screwed is to simply keep yourself apprised of card values. If you have a smart phone, just go to Starcitygames and compare the relative values of the cards that you'll be trading. Also, don't be afraid to play a little hardball. Don't act like you really need their cards, treat the situation like they really need yours.


----------



## Brill

Xaios said:


> The easiest way not to get screwed is to simply keep yourself apprised of card values. If you have a smart phone, just go to Starcitygames and compare the relative values of the cards that you'll be trading. Also, don't be afraid to play a little hardball. Don't act like you really need their cards, treat the situation like they really need yours.




Hes shouting me dinner at a fancy restraunt... So im not complaining now xD 
He was like "its shark night, ben's store is now charging double"
What online store is good... As my local card store has shut until gatecrash.


----------



## Brill

Can you pithing needle a dual land?


----------



## Asrial

If you mean unaltered dual land: No.
BUT, if that land is enchanted (Underworld connections is an example), you can needle that land and render all enchantmens on land that shares name with it useless. Note, that land-enchantments grants the land the ability, so if you by accident mention the enchantment instead of the land, then you've just wasted a needle.


----------



## Brill

Asrial said:


> If you mean unaltered dual land: No.
> BUT, if that land is enchanted (Underworld connections is an example), you can needle that land and render all enchantmens on land that shares name with it useless. Note, that land-enchantments grants the land the ability, so if you by accident mention the enchantment instead of the land, then you've just wasted a needle.



So by mana abilitys it means mana producing ability? I thought it meant like mana costing ability?


----------



## Nile

Loxodrome said:


> So by mana abilitys it means mana producing ability? I thought it meant like mana costing ability?



Lands don't tap for mana as an activated ability. Its just an ability. I don't even know if that is counted as an ability. I think lands are just lands. Lands.


----------



## Asrial

A mana ability is an activated ability, in which the card produces mana.

@Nile: False.
I assume you think of basic lands when you make that statement, since modern renditions of lands are just rendered with a big fat watermark. Old lands usually has a "{T}: Add WURGB to your manapool" or something along those lines as an example. Thus, the card possesses a mana ability. You can't use a Maze of Ith to produce a colorless mana either, even though it's completely colorless.
Deathrite shaman (just to take an example in standard) also possesses a mana ability in the shape of his first ability. It costs something to activate, but you can still use it, since it's an ability that in the end produces mana, even though it got needle'd.


----------



## Xaios

The difference between mana abilities versus most other activated abilities is that mana abilities don't use the stack. Even if someone's pointed a Krosan Grip at your Coalition Relic, you can still use its first to generate a mana. Conversely, in the same situation, you WOULDN'T be able to use Coalition Relic's second ability to place a charge counter on it.


----------



## Nile

I be derping it up.


----------



## Asrial

Woo, my friend just stumbled across a danish retailer with a FTV: Realms, one copy left, 50$. And I had the retailer hold it for me!


----------



## Brill

Asrial said:


> Woo, my friend just stumbled across a danish retailer with a FTV: Realms, one copy left, 50$. And I had the retailer hold it for me!



Whats good about all the lands? Ive never understood why those lands are so special?


----------



## Asrial

Cephalid: Blue mana, can dig later in the game.
Desert: Okay, it's old flavor.
High market: Creates life when chump-blocking.
Maze of Ith: Imagine preventing an Emrakul swinging... Yeah.
Shivan gorge: Always good to be able to hose mana.
Windbrisk Heights: You can cheat literally anything into play.
Vesuva: It is EVERYTHING.
Ancient tomb: 2 mana is ridiculous early game.
Boseiju, Who shelters all: Ever heard why Cavern of souls is ridiculous? This is pretty much the same.
Urborg, tomb of yawgmoth: All mana being tapable for black for free? HELL YAE. Plus, provides swampwalk to everybody!
Forbidden orchard: A 1/1 in trade of mana? It's easily blockable, so thank you very much.
Dryad arbor: It's a creature, so it's tutorable with diverse spells like Green Sun Zenith. Double landdrop?
Grove of the burnwillows: Giving HP in trade of colored mana... :3
Glacial chasm: It's total prevention of damage for a few turns and a landdrop. Damn son, what's not to like?!
Murmuring bosk: It's a forest that can tap for B/W... Holy shit?


----------



## Brill

Asrial said:


> Cephalid: Blue mana, can dig later in the game.
> Desert: Okay, it's old flavor.
> High market: Creates life when chump-blocking.
> Maze of Ith: Imagine preventing an Emrakul swinging... Yeah.
> Shivan gorge: Always good to be able to hose mana.
> Windbrisk Heights: You can cheat literally anything into play.
> Vesuva: It is EVERYTHING.
> Ancient tomb: 2 mana is ridiculous early game.
> Boseiju, Who shelters all: Ever heard why Cavern of souls is ridiculous? This is pretty much the same.
> Urborg, tomb of yawgmoth: All mana being tapable for black for free? HELL YAE. Plus, provides swampwalk to everybody!
> Forbidden orchard: A 1/1 in trade of mana? It's easily blockable, so thank you very much.
> Dryad arbor: It's a creature, so it's tutorable with diverse spells like Green Sun Zenith. Double landdrop?
> Grove of the burnwillows: Giving HP in trade of colored mana... :3
> Glacial chasm: It's total prevention of damage for a few turns and a landdrop. Damn son, what's not to like?!
> Murmuring bosk: It's a forest that can tap for B/W... Holy shit?



Im only new to the game btw.. Ive only been playing since august.
My friend got 4 boxs.. Cost him heaps...he loves land.


----------



## Luke Acacia

Out of interest, is there any Pokemon card players?


----------



## Asrial

Loxodrome said:


> Im only new to the game btw.. Ive only been playing since august.
> My friend got 4 boxs.. Cost him heaps...he loves land.



I played DotP 2012 for a brief time, else, I also started in august. 


Luke Acacia said:


> Out of interest, is there any Pokemon card players?


That's kinda off-topic in an MTG-thread?


----------



## Luke Acacia

I didnt want to start a new thread to find out if there is a following and figured that there might be some fellow trainers here 
Sorry for going off topic though


----------



## Brill

Asrial said:


> I played DotP 2012 for a brief time, else, I also started in august.



Howd you learn so fast? I still suck huge ass.


----------



## Asrial

I've played TCG's in the part, mainly YGO og Duel Masters, so I'm not new in that regard.
But then again, some tips so you can get better:


 Lifepoints is a resource. You only need 1 to survive, the rest is disposable. That's why cards like Dark confidant, Bitterblossom and Necroprotence is so good.
 Card advantage is key. The more cards you can have, and the bigger hand in comparison to your opponent you got, the better offset you have. Again, bolsters why Confidant and Necro is good.
 Focus in construction. Why? You need a theme of your deck, something to boost and bolster it, and a win condition. Like a discard deck, you need an engine that keeps your opponent low and unable to play his cards, while also beating his face in while he's down.
 Tempo! You need to either hit fast and hard or be able to shut off the tempo. Cackler to Shredfreak is an amazing move that offsets the opponent by 4 hp by turn 2, which is nice. While shutting off said cackler early on with some detain nets you card advantage and later dominance. Again; create or disrupt tempo.
 Attention to detail. There's a reason why shocklands are good. They're tutorable by a lot of spells or abilities, and fetch land targets. That's mostly a question of staying near good players, that already know this stuff, so you can learn from them. I play with judges and beta-veterans, and try to become a judge myself by taking the judge program tests, so I learn the rules way faster.


----------



## Xaios

Asrial said:


> Woo, my friend just stumbled across a danish retailer with a FTV: Realms, one copy left, 50$. And I had the retailer hold it for me!



Niiiiice. 



Asrial said:


> Maze of Ith: Imagine preventing an Emrakul swinging... Yeah.



Hate to break it to you, but it's not quite all that. While it can target Emrakul and prevent it from doing damage, you can only do so after Emrakul's been declared as an attacker, which means his Annihilator trigger is still going to hit the stack.



Asrial said:


> Forbidden orchard: A 1/1 in trade of mana? It's easily blockable, so thank you very much.



Three words: Oath... of... Druids.

As a side note, Wizards finally spoiled some more of the playable cards from the upcoming Commander's Arsenal set. As of now, the following have been confirmed (all cards in the set are foil).

- Chaos Warp
- Command Tower
- Dragonlair Spider
- Duplicant
- *Loyal Retainers*
- Sylvan Library
- The Mimeoplasm

For those who don't recognize Loyal Retainers, it was an uncommon printed only in the Portal: 3 Kingdoms, which is an _exceedingly_ rare set. As an uncommon, it commands a pricetag of $150 on the secondary market. While this one will likely not be nearly as valuable, I could see it settling at around $40, because it does see fringe play in Legacy.

Also, while these cards haven't been confirmed, they are rumored to be the remaining cards from the set:

- Decree of Pain
- Desertion
- Diaochan, Artful Beauty
- Edric, Spymaster of Trest
- Kaalia of the Vast
- Maelstrom Wanderer
- Mind's Eye
- Mirari's Wake
- Rhystic Study
- Scroll Rack
- Vela the Night-Clad

If true, then this set is a freaking home run (and remember, all foil).

(It also will include 10 oversized commanders, but I don't give a crap about those. )


----------



## Asrial

Xaios said:


> Three words: Oath... of... Druids.


I didn't know of that cards existance, but damn son, it's wild. Just another reason for me to love the orchard!

And a lot of the reprints going in the arsenal is indeed awesome, but the price tag still seems steep from what I've heard.


----------



## Xaios

Asrial said:


> I didn't know of that cards existance, but damn son, it's wild. Just another reason for me to love the orchard!



Just go give you an idea of how powerful Oath of Druids + Forbidden Orchard is... well, let's just say Oath of Druids is banned in Legacy.



Asrial said:


> And a lot of the reprints going in the arsenal is indeed awesome, but the price tag still seems steep from what I've heard.



Yeah, price is pretty much the kicker in this case. In addition to the fact that it will contain awesome cards, it's also going to be VERY limited print (the print run for this is going to be about half the size of an FTV print run). Combined with the anticipation built after the last few months (especially being as Sylvan Library was the first card they spoiled), some retailers (as well as Ebay) are charging obscene amounts. I've even heard stories from some people about their stores deciding not to bother selling their stock locally, because they can get more selling it online, and *that* definitely rubs me the wrong way.

It's all about finding an honest retailer who won't use this as an excuse to price gouge, in a nutshell.


----------



## Nile

Same with what might happen with freaking Modern Master's. Annoying as all hell.


----------



## Xaios

Nile said:


> Same with what might happen with freaking Modern Master's. Annoying as all hell.



If it does at all, it won't be nearly to the same degree. After all, a) there's going to be a LOT more Modern Masters cards in circulation than Commander's Arsenals, and b) Not everything in Modern Masters will be dynamite. Don't be surprised to see things like Tidehollow Sculler in there, cards that are only fringe-playable.

EDIT: 3 more cards from Commander's Arsenal spoiled:

- Diaochan, Artful Beauty
- Kaalia of the Vast
- Rhystic Study

Looks like that speculated list is turning out to be correct!


----------



## ShadowFactoryX

what's this commander's arsenal or this modern masters nonsense?!


----------



## Xaios

Commander's Arsenal is a premium product that's coming out in a couple weeks. A few months ago, Wizards scrapped the Premium Deck Series (Fire & Lightning, Graveborn) which normally comes out around November. This year, they're putting out a fairly exclusive replacement that's simply a collection of foil cards, regular and oversized, for EDH/Commander. Starting next year, they'll be putting out actual decks instead, but this year's product is a stopgap replacement. It's being printed in really limited quantities (about half the amount of FTV sets). That, combined with the quality of the cards that have been spoiled, is combining to make pre-order prices absolutely insane, like $300+ on Ebay.

Modern Masters is going to be booster packs of Modern staples and playables printed between 8th Edition through to the end of Alara block. That comes out next June, I believe. It will be draftable like any other set, and will contain power cards, such as Tarmogoyf (which is the only card from the set spoiled so far).

Also, they've now also confirmed that Maelstrom Wanderer and Edric, Spymaster of Trest will be in the Commander's Arsenal. Those will be some sweet foils!


----------



## Nile

Xaios said:


> Modern Masters is going to be booster packs of Modern staples and playables printed between 8th Edition through to the end of Alara block. That comes out next June, I believe. It will be draftable like any other set, and will contain power cards, such as Tarmogoyf (which is the only card from the set spoiled so far).


Actually City of Brass is also spoiled. With some bad ass art.

And ya not as insane as what Commander's arsenal will be, but still annoying if it does it.


----------



## caskettheclown

Xaios said:


> Commander's Arsenal is a premium product that's coming out in a couple weeks. A few months ago, Wizards scrapped the Premium Deck Series (Fire & Lightning, Graveborn) which normally comes out around November. This year, they're putting out a fairly exclusive replacement that's simply a collection of foil cards, regular and oversized, for EDH/Commander. Starting next year, they'll be putting out actual decks instead, but this year's product is a stopgap replacement. It's being printed in really limited quantities (about half the amount of FTV sets). That, combined with the quality of the cards that have been spoiled, is combining to make pre-order prices absolutely insane, like $300+ on Ebay.
> 
> Modern Masters is going to be booster packs of Modern staples and playables printed between 8th Edition through to the end of Alara block. That comes out next June, I believe. It will be draftable like any other set, and will contain power cards, such as Tarmogoyf (which is the only card from the set spoiled so far).
> 
> Also, they've now also confirmed that Maelstrom Wanderer and Edric, Spymaster of Trest will be in the Commander's Arsenal. Those will be some sweet foils!



Maybe then Tarmogoyf's price will go down just a hair....

I'm excited about the commander's arsenal mainly cause I have a feeling my local shop will have a lot of the singles from it.


----------



## ittoa666

Xaios said:


> Modern Masters is going to be booster packs of Modern staples and playables printed between 8th Edition through to the end of Alara block. That comes out next June, I believe. It will be draftable like any other set, and will contain power cards, such as Tarmogoyf (which is the only card from the set spoiled so far).



Yes. That is all.


----------



## Xaios

Full spoiler for the Commander's Arsenal set here: In Command of Commander's Arsenal : Daily MTG : Magic: The Gathering

Turns out that speculated list was 100% accurate.


----------



## ittoa666

Wish I had the money for that. So full of juice.


----------



## Asrial

I got a request from my ex to make her a cheap intro-deck to MTG that would suit her style, both personality-wise and play-wise. The result? A B/W token-oriented deck.
The deck is seriously intro-oriented, plus it costs 50$ to build, which is a little bit more than what an event-deck would cost here. (Danish prices are fucking steep, man)

The deck itself focuses around Skirk ridge exhumer and Soul warden mainly as the engine; Skirk makes you tokens and discards irrelevant cards at the time, while Soul warden keeps you afloat. Beckon is a nice and free 1/1 flier for 1 which is boostable, Traitor's is a nice combat trick which gets your opponents from behind (discard it with Skirk and watch the opponent despair when you use its flashback).

The finishers of this deck is Plague of Vermin and Crescendo of War.
The Plague is meant to be played once you have a Warden or two out. Your opponent might be quite conservative, maybe getting 2-3 rats or something, while you can be totally ruthless and summon your life total in rats, just to get it all back, maybe doubled or tripled even!
The Crescendo is a clock; once it hits 4 or 5, your fliers are able to tear the opponent down in seconds, plus it renders brute-force attackers useless.

And the reasons this is beginner friendly:

Only 2 keywords to keep track off: Persist and Flashback.
Flashback, so it teaches her to mind her graveyard, and why it's useful to have cards in the grave.
Triggers. It has a decent amount of triggers, many are straight-forward while only some are more tricky. Observance!
There's no complicated maneuvers in this deck or timing needed in this deck (except for 1), so it's rather simplified in regards to counter-magics.
Room for deck improvement! All the cards needed to make this deck go crazy is in the maybe-board, ready to replace some of the filler-cards present. Sorin and Elspeth are two extremely nice planeswalkers in this setup, Bitterblossom doesn't really need an explanation, and Elesh Norn is just a big fatty boom-boom that smashes everything into oblivion.
Feedback?


----------



## Xaios

Sounds pretty cool (your tappedout link is broken, by the way). If I could make one change to the concept, it would probably be to throw in a few creatures with Bloodthirst, because they're good at teaching people how to properly use the second main phase, which is a very underrated skill for new players. If you can do it without muddying the existing concept too much, I'd go for it.

Does Bloodthirst suit your ex's personality?


----------



## Asrial

The link is fixed now.
But she is a roleplaying metalhead with a love for some celtic stuff and gothic stuff. Well, that's a fucking given. 
But I didn't want to have all that many keywords to mess around with, plus, most of the bloodthirst creatures I can think of is green/red.


----------



## Nile

Sooo, I have like $140 coming from selling my shitty rares. Do I throw it into a bunch of casual decks that will still beat my play groups' asses without even trying much? (They got shitty cards, and consists of only three people.) Or throw it into a bunch of RTR packs and make a possible deck out of them and throw the rares I can't use into my extras right away or do I get a spendy ass card (Gaea's Cradle from before, and able to sit on it) along with some singles?


----------



## caskettheclown

Nile said:


> Sooo, I have like $140 coming from selling my shitty rares. Do I throw it into a bunch of casual decks that will still beat my play groups' asses without even trying much? (They got shitty cards, and consists of only three people.) Or throw it into a bunch of RTR packs and make a possible deck out of them and throw the rares I can't use into my extras right away or do I get a spendy ass card (Gaea's Cradle from before, and able to sit on it) along with some singles?



Depends, do you play in local tournaments or anything? Do you love making casual decks? Do you want to have a good collection? I say if you are getting an expensive card, make it something you will definitely use unless you get stuff just for collecting purposes only.


----------



## Nile

Well I live in the middle of nowhere so there isn't anything local with tournaments. Just an FNM 40 minutes away that I can't get to ever.

The booster pack method would be fun to open them all, but i could probably only make one deck out of all the cards I would get, and they rest of the unused rares and stuff would just go to the extras pile and not be used because it can't be. Possibly sell the money rares and just buy more packs or something.

I love casual decks, but its just that they beat my playgroups' ass way too often because they usually don't have answers to a variety of threats. But there is also the problem of the cards in the decks depreciating or not being wanted by anyone after I buy them, IE commons, uncommon, and all around not exactly desired cards that will still cost me something. (Can't really trade for any.)

Now the expensive card option, I can sit on an expensive staple card because it probably won't go down in value, just up. As in Gaea's cradle. When I started in 2010 it was at $40. A year later it doubled in price along with pretty much every card ever. Along with that I could get a few singles to improve my already powerful decks (versus playgroup).
But this option also leaves me with nothing new, just the same five decks I've had for over a year.


----------



## caskettheclown

Nile said:


> Well I live in the middle of nowhere so there isn't anything local with tournaments. Just an FNM 40 minutes away that I can't get to ever.
> 
> The booster pack method would be fun to open them all, but i could probably only make one deck out of all the cards I would get, and they rest of the unused rares and stuff would just go to the extras pile and not be used because it can't be. Possibly sell the money rares and just buy more packs or something.
> 
> I love casual decks, but its just that they beat my playgroups' ass way too often because they usually don't have answers to a variety of threats. But there is also the problem of the cards in the decks depreciating or not being wanted by anyone after I buy them, IE commons, uncommon, and all around not exactly desired cards that will still cost me something. (Can't really trade for any.)
> 
> Now the expensive card option, I can sit on an expensive staple card because it probably won't go down in value, just up. As in Gaea's cradle. When I started in 2010 it was at $40. A year later it doubled in price along with pretty much every card ever. Along with that I could get a few singles to improve my already powerful decks (versus playgroup).
> But this option also leaves me with nothing new, just the same five decks I've had for over a year.




I have an idea. Keep an open mind about it.

Buy a ton of boosters (maybe a few singles you want) and make kind of a group card pool for everyone to use. You say that your decks usually beat theirs right? Well if there is a group cardpool so to speak then everyone has access to cards so that way their decks get better (potentially) and so does yours (potentially). The cards would still be yours though obviously but it would be fun to have more of a challenge wouldn't it?


----------



## Nile

caskettheclown said:


> I have an idea. Keep an open mind about it.
> 
> Buy a ton of boosters (maybe a few singles you want) and make kind of a group card pool for everyone to use. You say that your decks usually beat theirs right? Well if there is a group cardpool so to speak then everyone has access to cards so that way their decks get better (potentially) and so does yours (potentially). The cards would still be yours though obviously but it would be fun to have more of a challenge wouldn't it?



Actually we already have a cube. Good thought though.


----------



## Xaios

EDIT: Nevermind. I just realized I can't actually show this for another few days. 

Trust me though, it's awesome.


----------



## Asrial

^DONT TEASE. 

EDIT: Private message recieved.
Holy fuck. That's nice.


----------



## Nile

May I have some private message?


----------



## Brill

Give me candy too! I mean, it in a private message..


----------



## caskettheclown

Private message me as well good sir ,if you don't mind


----------



## Asrial

I've promised not to message or talk about it, but really, it's not something totally unpredictable or sick happened, it's just a store being nice+him winning.


----------



## Xaios

Asrial said:


> I've promised not to message or talk about it, but really, it's not something totally unpredictable or sick happened, it's just a store being nice+him winning.



Don't worry, they've all seen it now too.


----------



## Brill

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/po...ed-his-magic-gathering-cards.html#post3251390


----------



## Nile

Wait why post that after posting it in the other section as a whole new thread? We don't want two places to discuss it.


----------



## caskettheclown

Loxodrome said:


> http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/po...ed-his-magic-gathering-cards.html#post3251390



The guy had a black lotus? Good lord, that is not something that everyone should be aware of. That right there will bring out the bad in people! Terrible what happened.


----------



## Xaios

caskettheclown said:


> The guy had a black lotus? Good lord, that is not something that everyone should be aware of. That right there will bring out the bad in people! Terrible what happened.



That's pretty paranoid. I know three people who have Black Lotuses, and everyone I know that plays Magic knows about them too. No one's ever tried to kill them or steal it.


----------



## caskettheclown

Xaios said:


> That's pretty paranoid. I know three people who have Black Lotuses, and everyone I know that plays Magic knows about them too. No one's ever tried to kill them or steal it.




I was being sarcastic about the black lotus while also being half asleep so it didnt seem very sarcastic


----------



## Xaios

So, for anyone who hasn't seen (not that there's many of you at this point...):


----------



## caskettheclown

So I bought the Golgari Event deck last night with hopes of playing it in the local standard tournament tonight since i'm off tonight. I modified it a bit and everything.
Hell I even got these horrible school bus yellow sleeves for it (It was 50 cents for 80) and they are in horrible condition and a bit to big for the cards. 
I was all excited to play and hopefully get into standard for once...


and I slept late and missed it.
Mind you I work night shifts so I usually sleep till 7 at night (thats when it starts).

So i'll try again next week. If I like standard enough to actually build my own deck its going to be G/W most likely. I've never gotten into standard, I started off as a legacy player and it has SPOILED ME BEYOND BELIEF. I never cared to play standard after getting used to Brainstorm and StP's . It got even worse when I built my legacy reanimator <3

Anyone in the same boat? Anyone care to give me some reasons to play standard? I honestly want to get into it.


----------



## ittoa666

I play standard to keep my skills up to par and to keep an eye on what the meta is like. Plus, it gives you an idea of how valued cards are if you're into selling or trading.


----------



## caskettheclown

ittoa666 said:


> I play standard to keep my skills up to par and to keep an eye on what the meta is like. Plus, it gives you an idea of how valued cards are if you're into selling or trading.


 I am into selling and trading but I usually use my MTG app on my android to keep up with prices.

I"ll try and enter the tourney next week and play some standard.


----------



## Xaios

The best reason to play Standard right now is that the metagame is *extremely* varied. There are several top-tier decks, but no single deck with a clear advantage.

It's also a brewer's paradise. A buddy of mine just built an awesome deck based on Epic Experiment that plays like a Storm deck. It's hilarious to watch.

The best reason not to play is the cost. There are a whole bunch of format staples right now that all run $20+ per card in value. _Thragtusk_ even is worth _*$25*_ (although it's widely regarded as the best card in the format).


----------



## caskettheclown

Xaios said:


> The best reason to play Standard right now is that the metagame is *extremely* varied. There are several top-tier decks, but no single deck with a clear advantage.
> 
> It's also a brewer's paradise. A buddy of mine just built an awesome deck based on Epic Experiment that plays like a Storm deck. It's hilarious to watch.
> 
> The best reason not to play is the cost. There are a whole bunch of format staples right now that all run $20+ per card in value. _Thragtusk_ even is worth _*$25*_ (although it's widely regarded as the best card in the format).



So standard is the place to try out new ideas and such. Awesome!
Card prices don't bother me too much as I usually trade stuff in and all that. Plus i'm used to legacy prices so I know it can be expensive.

Yea I heard Thragtusk is an auto 4of in EVERY deck almost, many splash green just for it.

My buddy has a mill deck built around milling yourself and play psychic spiral to win. Urban Bburgeoning and arbor elf, combine with chronic flooding to mill himself. He has a lot of things such as fog and clinging mist to save his ass. As well as plenty of ways to get stuff out of his graveyard too or if he's feeling ballsy he will Spelltwine a psychic spiral and something juicy in the opponents graveyard.
Its pretty damn good to be honest. He just doesn't want a Jace Memory Adept to help him mill and to deter attention away from himself. He's to hipster for that which is irritating.


----------



## Brill

I wish i could play standard again.... Nearest shop is like 4 hours awsy....

I am planning to play with a group of like.. 2 people.... I really need Better cards to beat them though...


----------



## Brill

caskettheclown said:


> So standard is the place to try out new ideas and such. Awesome!
> Card prices don't bother me too much as I usually trade stuff in and all that. Plus i'm used to legacy prices so I know it can be expensive.
> 
> Yea I heard Thragtusk is an auto 4of in EVERY deck almost, many splash green just for it.
> 
> My buddy has a mill deck built around milling yourself and play psychic spiral to win. Urban Bburgeoning and arbor elf, combine with chronic flooding to mill himself. He has a lot of things such as fog and clinging mist to save his ass. As well as plenty of ways to get stuff out of his graveyard too or if he's feeling ballsy he will Spelltwine a psychic spiral and something juicy in the opponents graveyard.
> Its pretty damn good to be honest. He just doesn't want a Jace Memory Adept to help him mill and to deter attention away from himself. He's to hipster for that which is irritating.


My friend had a deck like that. He just used labratory maniac instead.


----------



## caskettheclown

Loxodrome said:


> My friend had a deck like that. He just used labratory maniac instead.



Not sure what to call it though haha
Self Mill Turbo Fog?
Or my friends could be "Self mill turbo fog mill".... idk


----------



## Xaios

A buddy of mine has a sort of Bant midrange deck where the only non-permanent is Primal Surge. He casts it and brings down a singleton Laboratory Maniac, along with an Elvish Visionary to get the draw immediately.


----------



## Nile

Xaios said:


> A buddy of mine has a sort of Bant midrange deck where the only non-permanent is Primal Surge. He casts it and brings down a singleton Laboratory Maniac, along with an Elvish Visionary to get the draw immediately.



Do you have a card list I could see? Sounds like fun.


----------



## Thyber

I play this purely on a passive level. I play all the good cards, and know all the good tactiques, but I never, NEVER, buy the real cards. I just don't like spending 60 euro's on a printed piece of semi-cardboard worth 0,05 cents...


----------



## Asrial

Thyber said:


> I play this purely on a passive level. I play all the good cards, and know all the good tactiques, but I never, NEVER, buy the real cards. I just don't like spending 60 euro's on a printed piece of semi-cardboard worth 0,05 cents...



Cockatrice?


----------



## Xaios

ZE FOILS!
































Up to 69 foils in my Omnath EDH deck. Those are photos of all the non-basic-lands. They're not great though, lighting conditions and camera suck.


----------



## Nile

Your fucking insane. Or have a decent job.


----------



## caskettheclown

Damn those foils are nice!

I'm a foil nut myself (As well as my girlfriend) but she has a lot more than I do.

Part of me wants to make a monored standard deck since the one I stole off the internet and modified is relatively cheap. Then in time foil it. I want to do this since the holidays are coming up and I have to buy people presents and all that


----------



## Slayer89

Drafting on MODO for the first time in forever. Gotta say, I really didn't miss people who start slow playing when they know they've lost. :\


----------



## Asrial

I was out at a friend yesterday, as he said he got a package from some family.
Around 3000 cards from around 4th edition, Ice age and all sorts of other stuff, easily cards worth 1k&#8364;.

And I scored myself a Necropotence and a Swords to Plowshares (nice art). ^^


----------



## Nile

Asrial said:


> I was out at a friend yesterday, as he said he got a package from some family.
> Around 3000 cards from around 4th edition, Ice age and all sorts of other stuff, easily cards worth 1k.
> 
> And I scored myself a Necropotence and a Swords to Plowshares (nice art). ^^



What kind of high cost stuff did he get? Interested to hear.


----------



## Asrial

He didn't get tons of ultra high cost stuff; just a massive pile of decently costed cards. He had like a dozen Dark Ritual that goes for a couple euro a pop for example.
I can't remember correctly, but IIRC, he got a Shahrazad too, which is easily going for 30&#8364;+.


----------



## Nile

Asrial said:


> He didn't get tons of ultra high cost stuff; just a massive pile of decently costed cards. He had like a dozen Dark Ritual that goes for a couple euro a pop for example.
> I can't remember correctly, but IIRC, he got a Shahrazad too, which is easily going for 30+.



Dark Rituals are a couple euro a piece? My god.


----------



## Asrial

Nile said:


> Dark Rituals are a couple euro a piece? My god.



Note, these cards are as mint as they get, literally zero signs of play. But the price I looked at was my LGS' who bases them on TCG-player, so it might be slightly off.
Nonetheless, my buddy just hit jackpot, that's the main deal.


----------



## Xaios

I read a great quote about Commander/EDH on the MTGsalvation forum, thought I'd share:



> EDH, on the other hand, is more like a monster truck rally. It's more about the spectacle than the race, the games go long, and it's not usually clear who's in the lead until there's only one truck left.*
> 
> Single player *(note, he meant 1v1) *EDH is like two guys smacking each other with pillows... until one of them pulls out a shotgun.


----------



## Slayer89

^^^
hahaha

So last night I swung through our local shop and saw they had just restocked the dollar rare bin and decided to thumb through while chatting. Spent $5 on what I found. Devil's Play and Raging Ravine were cool. Painter's Servant, Foil Fulminator Mage, and Chalice of the Void were even cooler.


----------



## Xaios

Dang, Chalice of the Void and foil Fulminator Mage are $10 apiece! Good score!

(FYI though, if you ever try EDH, Painter's Servant is banned in that format.)


----------



## Slayer89

Yeah, I've done EDH before. Fun format, but I can never keep a deck together because I always end up pulling pieces for 60 card decks or trading. Might try Pauper EDH, though.


----------



## caskettheclown

I had an EDH deck built at one point but have no one else who likes to play with with me. There are people at the local card shop that play but due to my work schedule (As per fucking usual) its to hard to meet up with people.


I hate my work schedule with a burning passion.

I have played a few games of EDH before, but it was always on the extremely rare occasion I walk in on one at the card shop and someone is tired of playing and I just sort of "Take over" for them. It was a ton of fun though, considering I won with magister sphinx 



EDIT- no use in making a double post.

My friend's birthday was a couple weeks ago and we decided to split a booster box (This time he didn't back out at the last minute). He just asked me to wait till this month so he could get his bills paid and all. Which was fine.

Tonight we got the RTR box and split it. 

I GOT LUCKY!
1- Angel of Serenity! <3
2- Supreme Verdict's <3
1- Abrupt decay  (Traded it for a Restoration Angel)
1- Rakdo's lord of riots! <3
1- Armada Wurm (Traded in for store credit)
1- Steam Vents (Traded in for store credit)

My buddy got
1- foil temple garden
1- loxodon smiter
1- deathrite shaman
and thats about it for the money cards haha


So the W/U cards and the angels are going into my extreme budget W/U detain deck which was recently modified to have a lot of angels mid to late game  The original deck cost 7 bucks with a few foils and worked fairly well when I got a decent hand. Now I think I have a good chance at FNM.


----------



## Brill

Im getting a russian m13 booster box soon. Hopefully i can pull a thragtusk or something good.


----------



## caskettheclown

Loxodrome said:


> Im getting a russian m13 booster box soon. Hopefully i can pull a thragtusk or something good.



You will, and you'll make decent money off of it too! Especially if you are patient.


----------



## Xaios

caskettheclown said:


> You will, and you'll make decent money off of it too! Especially if you are patient.



I wouldn't be so sure, although it largely depends on how much he paid. M13 only really has 3 money cards (Thragtusk, Thundermaw Hellkite and Sublime Archangel). The planeswalkers haven't really seen much play. That may change with Gatecrash, but it's hard to say. I think Ajani is better than the play he's getting would indicate, but Liliana never seemed all that great to me, as it needs a VERY specific archetype to be good in order for her to be good herself.

Also, Wizards anounced the third set in the block is called Dragon's Maze. Odd name, but I'll play along. The spoiled art also seems to indicate Ral Zarek will be printed as a planeswalker.


----------



## Hemi-Powered Drone

So I'm actually finally getting back in the game (coincidentally with the set that returns to the set I left on), and I was thinking of building a Selesnya deck, do you guys think it'd be worth it to get the Selesnya intro pack?


----------



## Nile

I'd say just buy the singles.


----------



## Asrial

Possible Gatecrash leak

Allright, 75% sure this is fake


Spoiler



(Domri doesn't clip at all with the borders, plus it's leaked on craigslist, everything is foiled)


 But there's some signs that they might be real too


Spoiler



(Therese Nielsens art is new, Aurelia/Borborygmos is well designed, the inevitable shit-tier mythic is represented)



Thoughts?


----------



## Nile

Aurelia be OP as FUCK.
Borb be pretty damn good if you can cast him.
Domri Rade be pretty good, and you can even get him off a cascade which seems incredibly good. And you could use the second effect right off the start of getting him off a Bloodbraid.
Enter the Infinite, fuck you for making Omniscience/Show/Halls/whatever deck uses stuff like that, more OP.  Cool ass card though.
Hellkite's main ability is pretty damn trash. Otherwise as a body, he is decent.

These cards seem too well thought out, I'd be actually sad if they weren't real.


----------



## Brill

If that borb is real, ill be making a jund frieght deck, as fuck that ability is awesome, ive always loved multch, but the discard part makes him awesome.


----------



## ittoa666

Can't wait to get a few Aurelia's for my boros deck.


----------



## Asrial

Nile said:


> Hellkite's main ability is pretty damn trash. Otherwise as a body, he is decent.



This card was designed to fuck over EDH.

And still, only still, if Aurelia is legit, we're going to see some sick Naya-decks pop up, mainly thanks to her, Borborygmos and Gisela.


----------



## caskettheclown

Went 2-2 at my first standard tournament. Came in 7th out of 20 and thats without having a proper sideboard or my deck finished  I am playing W/U azorius control with splash of black and a TON of angels.
i'm a happy man

I was always so close to winning every match it was unreal. Next week I hope to do better, or at least not worse haha.

Either way I know it'll be a blast again.

ALSO my legacy elves deck is almost built.


EDIT- I really hope Aurelia is real! I would swap out the black for red and be extremely happy!


----------



## Nile

Asrial said:


> This card was designed to fuck over EDH.
> 
> And still, only still, if Aurelia is legit, we're going to see some sick Naya-decks pop up, mainly thanks to her, Borborygmos and Gisela.



Lol underestimation on my part.


----------



## Xaios

Asrial said:


> This card was designed to fuck over EDH.



Yes, but not in the way you're thinking. Red has traditionally been the worst color in EDH to play any artifact based strategy (aside from mana rocks before cycling Decree of Annihilation). I'd warrant that what this card is REALLY meant to do is provide red with a viable way to combat things like Sharuum the Hegemon. Sure, it just got Vandalblast, but that only delays the inevitable against Sharuum.



Asrial said:


> And still, only still, if Aurelia is legit, we're going to see some sick Naya-decks pop up, mainly thanks to her, Borborygmos and Gisela.



I dunno, that deck would have one hell of a high mana curve.


----------



## Brill

Anyone know when theyll annouchnce the deck list for the duel decks?


----------



## caskettheclown

The local card shop has a gaea's cradle for sale slightly played for fifty bucks. He said its been there forever. I WANT IT! Hopefully it'll be there when my bills get paid.


----------



## Xaios

Do iiiiiit.


----------



## Nile

If its been there forever, haggle him.


----------



## caskettheclown

I shall when I get paid and get bills paid. I'm a regular so I think he will go down a tad bit for me


----------



## ittoa666

You can get that for at least $25. I believe in you, you lucky bastard.


----------



## caskettheclown

I'll try. I'm just surprised he hasn't sold it on ebay yet


----------



## UV7BK4LIFE

Awesome, a M:TG topic here  I've been playing since Ice Age came out but it's always been a choice between playing in band or Magic. I just can't have both, too time consuming. But it's always been a big part of my life and will always be I guess.

I play Legacy tournaments every now and then, and I enjoy playing commander with some good friends. One of my friends started playing together with me and now owns his own game store.

Currently I enjoy slapping faces with Rafiq. Just him, a bunch of 1 drop equipment and mana dudes, and some protection in the form of instants/equipment/auras.


----------



## caskettheclown

Yea its a wonderful thread full of very friendly people.


Watch out though, you'll get jealous of Xiao's foil's realllyyyyy quick though

I know what you mean about juggling a band and magic. I found magic after I quit my old band and i'm perfectly ok with that. Sooner or later I will try and find another band...I think. I might just buy some decent affordable equipment and record my own music on my own time. Hell I might just join radiorock cover band haha. I know one thing though, i'll be playing magic for a long long long time thats for sure! Especially since my girlfriend plays.


----------



## Nile

Magic FTW.

So apparently, my dad looks like Gideon. Quite like him.


----------



## caskettheclown

Nile said:


> Magic FTW.
> 
> So apparently, my dad looks like Gideon. Quite like him.




Pics? I would love to see this.


----------



## Nile

Don't got one, and would be way too awkward to try to. 

You're just going to have to trust me.


----------



## caskettheclown

Haha alright. 

Guys what is something cool magic wise I can get my girlfriend for our anniversary? She mainly loves vampires and angels. Don't worry I'm getting her things besides magic stuff haha

EDit- I got her an avacyns return playmat. Ideas are still welcome since Xmas is right around the corner. I know I'm giving her my holo liliana of the veil but will get somethin else to go with it.


----------



## Xaios

caskettheclown said:


> Watch out though, you'll get jealous of Xiao's foil's realllyyyyy quick though



Thing is, I know several people IRL who have MUCH nicer foil collections than I.


----------



## Nile

caskettheclown said:


> Haha alright.
> 
> Guys what is something cool magic wise I can get my girlfriend for our anniversary? She mainly loves vampires and angels. Don't worry I'm getting her things besides magic stuff haha
> 
> EDit- I got her an avacyns return playmat. Ideas are still welcome since Xmas is right around the corner. I know I'm giving her my holo liliana of the veil but will get somethin else to go with it.



Damn man you dropping some cash on her.

Foil Entreat The Angels/Baneslayer Angel and foil Vampire Nocturnus.
There's your angels/vampires.


----------



## caskettheclown

Nile said:


> Damn man you dropping some cash on her.
> 
> Foil Entreat The Angels/Baneslayer Angel and foil Vampire Nocturnus.
> There's your angels/vampires.



Nah not really, just the playmat and a CD so far that's it. 20$ for the playmat and 10 for the CD and five for shipping (each) so that equals to about 40 bucks. I am probably gonna learn a song or something and thats it cause she said it herself she doesn't have a lot of money to get me stuff for our anniversary.

I pulled the Holo liliana and already have a regular version.


Also she has the Foil ETA's and i'll look into Vampire Nocturnus.


----------



## Nile

Well I meant your giving her some cash. 

Foil Liliana pretty spendy.


----------



## caskettheclown

Nile said:


> Well I meant your giving her some cash.
> 
> Foil Liliana pretty spendy.



Well i've already got it, and had it for a long time, plus I told her that she can have it on one condition.

1. She can't sell it or trade it and if something ever happens and she quits magic then it goes back to me.


EDIT- Just got my chinese Gisela Blade of Goldknight in the mail! I'm a happy happy man at the moment.


----------



## Asrial

Trying to stitch together a storm-deck so I can participate in modern tournaments.
Epic Storm ( MTG Deck)

It absolutely demolishes most of the time, where I experiment for my entire deck and just blast my opponent to smithereens within turn 3 or 4.


----------



## caskettheclown

Sweet jesus that looks like fun!


----------



## Slayer89

Needz moar Goblin Electromancer.


----------



## caskettheclown

I wanted to make a legacy storm deck but WOW those are expensive


----------



## Xaios

Heh, try naming a Legacy deck that isn't expensive.


----------



## Asrial

Slayer89 said:


> Needz moar Goblin Electromancer.



No.
I like the lil' fella, but he doesn't go well with Epic Experiment, he doesn't combo well and is easy to remove.
Okay, he removes 1 from the manacost, but what on earth should I replace with him? Can't really remove my arcanes, I need my mana generators and my diggers. Past and Epic is the centerpieces of this strat (lets me dig and put spells in graveyard to be cast again), and Pyromancer is just. So. Strong.


----------



## caskettheclown

Xaios said:


> Heh, try naming a Legacy deck that isn't expensive.



Very true!
I have a budget B/U reanimator and it was STILL expensive.

My budget elves deck not so much though, less than a hundred bucks and it is much better than I thought.


Also burn isn't that expensive, i've seen some really good ones for less than a hundred bucks but then again burn gets a little redundant quick. Love it to death but man I get bored of it. Control on the other hand takes a lot longer for me to get bored of.


----------



## Slayer89

Electromancer is the best thing the deck has gotten a while. It essentially doubles your mana all things considered. This list is probably close to the best for Modern Storm right now

Grand Prix Chicago Day 2 Coverage : Daily MTG : Magic: The Gathering


----------



## Asrial

I can see the logic behind him, but I can not see the logic behind his deck. Singleton Dreadship? Only 2 vents? Wut?

I can follow the logic behind removing a grapeshot and some peers to make room, but what his deck does is adding stability to the epic storm, at the cost of risking being countered, and that's why I opted in for the two pyros. Once that fella is going, even if the opponent has some control, they have to sacrifice *everything* to stop a spell, since it copies before the spell actually hits the stack.

For reference:






I'm still not a fan of removing my decks safety net, but I might look into moving a grape and a peer into a goblin.


----------



## caskettheclown

Big update. I'm sad. Know why? Remember the gaea cradle for fifty bucks slightly played? Well I went to buy it and got the card. Looked at it and the back is torn up with scuff marks and bends and all that. I said " this is not slightly played and would like my money back". The owner felt horrible after realizing he marked its case wrong and apologized to me. he knows I'm a regular customer and said he would make it up to me and gave me a few dollars store credit. Which I got a drink and some dice since mine end up missing all the time. 

Still sad bout the condition but I'm not paying fifty bucks on a card that is borderline damaged . I'll spend a little more on one in good condition.


----------



## Xaios

Crappy deal dude. 

But at least the store owner was willing to make it right.


----------



## Nile

I thought that was going to turn out horrible. It got better though cause I thought the owner was going to rob you of your money.


----------



## caskettheclown

The owner is a real good guy. He started my love of reanimator decks. It's a small shop so everyone knows everyone. I love it.


----------



## caskettheclown

Bit of a complaint, wondering if its justified.

So I played in FNM standard tournament last night. We had a lot of new people play, some barely playing a month. I played a few new people and we talked a minute before the match and I said "Yea if we play against each other i'll help you remember everything and go easy on you don't worry, I was new earlier this year so I know how it is". I told them this because they told me they where really nervous about getting completely ran over because we have a lot of really good players with really good decks. I wanted them to have fun playing at least against me.

Anyway I play this girl who has been playing for a couple months and still having a little trouble remember a couple things here and there. So her boyfriend (who gave her his tier 1 deck to play) watched us play and helped her remember things like "Alright remember you gain life from that" and things like that. Which i'm perfectly alright with. She lost the first match and won the second match. We go to the tiebreaker and her boyfriend is basically playing the deck for her. "Alright you want to soulbond that to this instead of this" and "Now is the time for that card since he is tapped out".

Things like that he was doing. I was getting irritated cause I was supposed to be playing her not her boyfriend. I was perfectly alright with him reminding her of rules (Discard down to 7 at the end of turn and so on) because she was making all the choices on what to play. I didn't show any signs of me getting frustrated or anything, I lost the third match cause of her boyfriend and extended a handshake being extremely nice the entire time.

I don't mind losing but I feel like she didn't even play the third round at all without him telling her what to do. It frustrated me a good bit.

Am I right to be frustrated? Or should I have been alright with it cause she is somewhat new?


I do have some good things to say about last night though so its not all bad news  I played two of the top players at the store and almost won both but one of my lands came into play tapped due to no islands in play. They complimented me on everything and said "We should playtest together man, you are becoming a damn good player and if you upgrade the manabase a bit your deck will be insane". Needless to say I got 4 hallowed fountains today via trade in. All I need is one more Tamiyo and another Angel of Serenity and I can finally say my deck is finished.


----------



## ittoa666

I know how you feel. When I started last year, I played against a lot of people who would either try to play my deck for me or vice-versa. 

In your situation, it's okay for a "spectator" to help a less experienced player optimize their turn and play the right thing, but in a competitive environment, it's not needed. It can be hard to deal with that sort of thing without hurting someone's feelings or bothering someone, but you are paying to play for a prize.


----------



## Xaios

I'm pretty sure what he did was against the rules. IIRC, spectators can only make note of mandatory triggers or point out if something has been done incorrectly, such as trying to block against a creature that has protection from the color of the would-be blocker. You would have been well within your rights to call over a judge, although in fairness, that might have soured the new girl on the experience, making it look like you were trying to rules-lawyer a win. The best option would have been to take the guy aside and point out that what he was doing the rules. Remind him of what is acceptable for him to do within the bounds of the rules, and be clear that, if he stepped outside those boundaries again, you would then call a judge.


----------



## caskettheclown

Thanks guys. I wanted to talk to the judge about it but already told then bout new people playing nonstandard cards. I didn't want to feel like I was doing their job for them by complaining bout the boyfriend. I'll definitely tell someone next time. 

Next time I hope I play people who aren't new so I can just play my best no holds barred. Against new people I'm in helpful mode making sure they have a good time. 


Also Tamiyo is now on my top planeswalker list. I pulled off her ultimate and DWAM! It got stupid quick. <3



Also didn't they change the rules to say if you miss a trigger then to bad?


----------



## Asrial

^Xaios is absolutely correct. A spectator may only comment with cheer and with mandatory triggers. They may NOT give active advice, and doing so may lead to a disqualification if participating, or in this case, a fair warning.

Also, I had the first oppotunity to enter the biggest LGS in Copenhagen; Faraos Cigarer. I was in town, and sort of needed cards for my storm deck project. Looked up what cards they had and where they were, arrived and casually asked in they had that and that card. Bluntly, I get replied "Commons are in the commons pile; we don't do any accounting on that". Now, I would've been fine if it was sub 2k cards I was dealing with here. Nope, they show me a 200k card strong pile of commons. Wat. I know Serum Visions and Manamorphose goes for 3-4&#8364; a pop in my area and they offered .2c a pop, but...




I then proceed to look up their site again, since I spotted they had Zendikar full-art for 1&#8364; a pop with plenty of stock; Nope. Sold out.

I'm sorry, but that left me kind of baffled and needed to vent.


----------



## Xaios

I'm glad I've got like 125 full art Zendikar lands.


----------



## caskettheclown

Do the full art lands come in foils though?


I hate when shops don't have things organized. Its one thing to have a small tray of "Dollar rares" and everything else organized but to just throw things together by rarity is chaos and laziness. My local shop has EVERYTHING organized by set and then color.


----------



## ittoa666

caskettheclown said:


> Do the full art lands come in foils though?



Yup, and they're usually expensive as hell. I payed around ten for an island.


----------



## caskettheclown

ittoa666 said:


> Yup, and they're usually expensive as hell. I payed around ten for an island.




 I'll keep paying fifty cents for normal holo land then WOW


----------



## Nile

10 actually seems quite overpriced for just a single Zendikar foil land.

I've seen around that you can get foil Unhinged lands which are even more sought after/cooler for only 7-12 dollars each.


----------



## caskettheclown

I prefer the zendikar ones myself. If I didn't love my foil land so much I'd grab some. Maybe for another deck I might.


----------



## Slayer89

Nile said:


> 10 actually seems quite overpriced for just a single Zendikar foil land.
> 
> I've seen around that you can get foil Unhinged lands which are even more sought after/cooler for only 7-12 dollars each.



Care to grab me some lol? Foil Unhinged lands usually run $30-$40 for NM.


----------



## DevourTheDamned

wow i cant believe that this thread exists lol



you guys playing standard right now?


----------



## Nile

Slayer89 said:


> Care to grab me some lol? Foil Unhinged lands usually run $30-$40 for NM.



Well this was roughly a year and 3/4 to 2 years ago. Back then every single card was somewhere near half of the price it is now. That could be why or I could have read something wrong but I'm guessing they were a little less than the prices you said.

And I remember this dude on MTGSalvation scoring a complete set, something like 4 of each different art land, in foil, for only like $1600.


----------



## Nile

DevourTheDamned said:


> wow i cant believe that this thread exists lol
> 
> 
> 
> you guys playing standard right now?



Standard, while easy to do and not so much variants in the game play, gets kind of stale. But I do play it myself.


----------



## caskettheclown

I play four color color control in standard atm. 


Anyone got the holiday gift box yet? I did and it is pretty good quality actually. Stickers are nice and a good bit of dividers as well. Pulled the last detention sphere out of a booster too. Now only 4 cards away from my deck being completely complete. 

I recommend the gift box to anyone wanting one. Only issue with mine was the alt foil card was bent badly but I don't care much bout that card.


----------



## Xaios

I also bought a gift box, although the cards I pulled were jank. The box IS of sturdy construction. The only thing I wish is that it included more dividers.


----------



## Nile

So I run an aggro control deck in Standard in the colors of Bant. (UWG)

I run 6 O-ring (4 Detention Spheres, 2 Oblivion Ring) effects main board and that has yet to screw me. Most people in Standard really heavily on some big beater or some permanent's effect and I just use a constant stream of bounces and Ring effects while beating with quite a few creatures. Afterwards if they rely heavily on reanimator targets or mid range type stuff like Niv, I sideboard in 7 or 8 of those effects and usually win unless they draw into most of their control stuff like a motherfucker. If I play against tokens I just side in 4 Cyclonic Rifts (use 3 main) and only keep Detentions.

My goodstuff.dec ass decks with no plans to them in Standard usually turn out to work quite well actually.


----------



## caskettheclown

Xaios said:


> I also bought a gift box, although the cards I pulled were jank. The box IS of sturdy construction. The only thing I wish is that it included more dividers.



My only problem is actually organizing it 

Part of its laziness and part of its not knowing how I want to organize it.


----------



## caskettheclown

Nile said:


> So I run an aggro control deck in Standard in the colors of Bant. (UWG)
> 
> I run 6 O-ring (4 Detention Spheres, 2 Oblivion Ring) effects main board and that has yet to screw me. Most people in Standard really heavily on some big beater or some permanent's effect and I just use a constant stream of bounces and Ring effects while beating with quite a few creatures. Afterwards if they rely heavily on reanimator targets or mid range type stuff like Niv, I sideboard in 7 or 8 of those effects and usually win unless they draw into most of their control stuff like a motherfucker. If I play against tokens I just side in 4 Cyclonic Rifts (use 3 main) and only keep Detentions.
> 
> My goodstuff.dec ass decks with no plans to them in Standard usually turn out to work quite well actually.



Sounds a little like my deck. I detain and tap their creatures till I get my detention spheres or other removal. Its absolutely bonkers nowadays


----------



## Brill

Nile said:


> So I run an aggro control deck in Standard in the colors of Bant. (UWG)
> 
> I run 6 O-ring (4 Detention Spheres, 2 Oblivion Ring) effects main board and that has yet to screw me. Most people in Standard really heavily on some big beater or some permanent's effect and I just use a constant stream of bounces and Ring effects while beating with quite a few creatures. Afterwards if they rely heavily on reanimator targets or mid range type stuff like Niv, I sideboard in 7 or 8 of those effects and usually win unless they draw into most of their control stuff like a motherfucker. If I play against tokens I just side in 4 Cyclonic Rifts (use 3 main) and only keep Detentions.
> 
> My goodstuff.dec ass decks with no plans to them in Standard usually turn out to work quite well actually.


 


caskettheclown said:


> Sounds a little like my deck. I detain and tap their creatures till I get my detention spheres or other removal. Its absolutely bonkers nowadays


 

Do you guys use board wipes? or is just the O rings?


----------



## caskettheclown

Loxodrome said:


> Do you guys use board wipes? or is just the O rings?



two supreme verdicts
four detention spheres
a bunch of stuff to tap their creatures as well like Feeling of Dread and Blustersquall


I'm testing out 2 sleep as well, so far its working fairly well since the games I usually lose, I am usually only a few points away from losing. Sleep helps out a lot.


ALSO just noticed a neat two card combo

get stuff doll out
the play into the maw of hell

lolz ensue!


----------



## Asrial

caskettheclown said:


> ALSO just noticed a neat two card combo
> 
> get stuff doll out
> the play into the maw of hell
> 
> lolz ensue!



That's not a combo, mearly a good interaction. 

At a sidenote, I'm on my way to building the storm deck for modern! 20 cards strong so far, just needing a bulk of random commons... And the fetches.


----------



## caskettheclown

Asrial said:


> That's not a combo, mearly a good interaction.
> 
> At a sidenote, I'm on my way to building the storm deck for modern! 20 cards strong so far, just needing a bulk of random commons... And the fetches.



I apologize then. What counts as a combo though?


----------



## Asrial

A combo would be something that made you play tons of shit all at once. Splinter-twin a Pestermite or a Deceiver is a combo, as it wins you the game 99.95% of the time. Spell Crumble into Tunnel Vision is a borderline combo, as it can mill an entire deck in one sitting, but is again merely a good interaction as well.

In magic, as far as I've been taught, a combo is a series of plays at rapid succession that is almost impossible to stop that grants victory once going. Vengevine Dredge is a combo-deck, since it uses something to fill the grave and then a few spells to swing in for a billion. Storm is a combo-deck, since it uses a lot of mana-generation and Past in Flames to recycle everything. It's not a clean combo, but it's an ongoing series of plays that leads into a win-condition.

If stuffy-maw is a combo, then you could pretty much say any planeswalker paired with Doubling season is a combo, or any scrying effect that enables a Bonfire or Entreat.


----------



## Brill

caskettheclown said:


> ALSO just noticed a neat two card combo
> 
> get stuff doll out
> the play into the maw of hell
> 
> lolz ensue!


 
This guy at My store has a deck like that, but he token swarms and Uses Blasphomus act.


----------



## Nile

Loxodrome said:


> Do you guys use board wipes? or is just the O rings?



Well I generally don't like playing board wipes, I feel that is more for mid-range players in Standard. If I run up against tokens, then ya, minus the two o-rings and board in 2 Supreme Verdicts. Otherwise 6-8 O-ring effects get rid of what counts no problem and at no risk to my creatures.

I also play like 16 or 18 creatures, so I don't like killing my guys because the deck is also part aggro.


----------



## Nile

Black Lotus Original Painting MTG Cube Holiday 2012 Art by Chris Rahn | eBay

Surprised no one has said anything about this already.
New art commissioned by Wizards for the online powered cube in MTGO.


----------



## Asrial

Sorry to necro, but this is quite some news.

It's as far as I know another mechanic made from a contest winner, and it looks like it's gonna be a limited bomb. Damn.


----------



## Xaios

Indeed. Interesting synergy with Graft as well.


----------



## ittoa666

Got three packs yesterday, and pulled an Overgrown Tomb, a Blood Crypt, and a Temple Gardens. 

Victory.


----------



## Nile

ittoa666 said:


> Got three packs yesterday, and pulled an Overgrown Tomb, a Blood Crypt, and a Temple Gardens.
> 
> Victory.



Dude balls. You lucky.


----------



## Asrial

Xaios said:


> Indeed. Interesting synergy with Graft as well.



They did say that they designed all the mechanics to have synergy with their original Ravnica counterpart. Like Dredge+Scavenge, Populate+Convoke and to some extent Hellbent+Unleash, even though it's kind of obscure.
Although, I must say that this is either mad or genius, since Graft just allows to make huge-ass monsters, and Evolve just benefits from that, making the monsters even bigger.

I can see Bant being top-tier in competitive. Again.


----------



## ittoa666

Nile said:


> Dude balls. You lucky.



I've been pretty lucky recently.


----------



## ittoa666

Gonna go pick up a box of RtR tomorrow with my xmas cash. Wish me luck guys!


----------



## caskettheclown

Naya deck is almost complete! Well its functional now and pretty good but I just need 
2 Ajani caller of the Pride
3 Restoration Angel
3 Hellrider for the sideboard
Would get them now but I had to buy a new computer (Samsung Laptop) for the holidays since my old one (4 years old) just killed itself... though I definitely learned a lesson in backing up my files, i'm happy to have a new toy to play with. Still a TON of comics and music to get again 

Everything else i am in love with. Mana base will get upgraded PRONTO when gatecrash comes out though 

How was everyone's holidays? Any cool magic stuff?
My girlfriend got me a really old Starter Pack, the symbol is a Star, so i'm not exactly sure what set its from but its nothing powerful card wise just something to collect.


----------



## Nile

caskettheclown said:


> My girlfriend got me a really old Starter Pack, the symbol is a Star, so i'm not exactly sure what set its from but its nothing powerful card wise just something to collect.



Starter 1999. Mostly trash but there is a select few pretty good cards in the set.


----------



## Slayer89

The Starter set has Grim Tutor. That's getting close to $200 now ... *insert tears of regret here*


----------



## ittoa666

caskettheclown said:


> Naya deck is almost complete! Well its functional now and pretty good but I just need
> 2 Ajani caller of the Pride
> 3 Restoration Angel
> 3 Hellrider for the sideboard



Midrange? If not, you should maindeck Hellrider. He wins games.

Also, you are one lucky bastard and your girlfriend is obviously a witch for getting a hold of that starter set.


----------



## caskettheclown

ittoa666 said:


> Midrange? If not, you should maindeck Hellrider. He wins games.
> 
> Also, you are one lucky bastard and your girlfriend is obviously a witch for getting a hold of that starter set.



The starter pack? Its got 2 decks and an intro guide, its the beginner level one. I'm not sure if it has grim tutor in it, i'll check it tonight cause I just went through it a time or two just to see what was in it. Didn't think anything would be actually worth anything

Picked up a FOIL hellrider yesterday as well as 4 FOIL avacyn's pilgrims and a Foil Loxodon Smiter



They have a foil Mercadian Masques Dark Ritual for 33 bucks too! Definitely gonna get it tomorrow if its still there


http://www.trollandtoad.com/p132210.html <--- that is the link to what she got me so i'm highly doubting it has anything valuable in it.


----------



## ittoa666

Here's a list of the contents.

https://www.wizards.com/magic/generic/cardlists/starter_checklist.txt


----------



## Nile

Doubting the Grim Tutor, but could have Armageddon.


----------



## caskettheclown

It has nothing fancy in it. All trash cards.

If I can afford it i'm buying the foil dark ritual tonight (Assuming its still there) and then going to rebuild my casual monoblack necropotence control deck


----------



## Xaios

Nile said:


> Doubting the Grim Tutor, but could have Armageddon.



Armageddon isn't nearly as valuable, because it's been printed several times, whereas Grim Tutor was only ever printed once, in this set. Even an Armageddon from Alpha isn't as valuable as Grim Tutor.


----------



## Asrial

FNM status report:
I drew a Niv-mizzet, got passed a mizzium mortar, and got a hellsteed; Went grixis midrange, and lost only to the guy that got 1st place in the end, so that netted me a solid 2nd place. 2 boosters in prize, where I got a precinct captain and a detention sphere.
Then a guy wanted my hellrider for his standard deck, so he traded a lingering souls, a zendikar full-art and 4x Gitaxian probe.

I think it's a good harvest.


----------



## Nile

Xaios said:


> Armageddon isn't nearly as valuable, because it's been printed several times, whereas Grim Tutor was only ever printed once, in this set. Even an Armageddon from Alpha isn't as valuable as Grim Tutor.



I wasn't really talking value wise. I was talking playability wise.


----------



## Nile

So I went and played the holiday cube online. Until Tappedout failed, I got/picked Mox Ruby, Mox Sapphire, Mana Drain, Time Walk, Vendillion Clique, Snapcaster, every good control card ever made in red and blue. I got passed a lot of that stuff. I was flipping out and wtfing cause how were people passing this shit, and I wanted so bad to use it because I knew without a doubt I would have won every single game against all the seven people. Greatest drafted deck I've ever gotten, and greatest one (kid you not,) that I've ever seen.


----------



## caskettheclown

came in 4th place at FNM last night.

Bought a foil dark ritual and a bunch of other little things.

My deck shit on all the opponents I won against. The round I lost was a damn good game , long and grindy.


I NEED 2 MORE HELLRIDERS!!


----------



## ittoa666

Dayum.


----------



## Brill

ittoa666 said:


> Dayum.



Lol.
Hes eh to me.

Edit: wait i read him more carefully, shit hes powerful.


----------



## Nile

Actually, he has a giant liability. Your opponent needed a bunch of creatures out to even make him good doesn't even happen all to often or much at all because most decks don't use a shit ton of creatures.

Gruul mechanic is absolute trash IMO.

Orzhov one is decent-ish.

Simic and Dimir are pretty damn good.


So far I'm not overly impressed with Gatecrash.

http://www.mtgsalvation.com/gatecrash-spoiler.html


----------



## ittoa666

So far, the only things I want are Gideon, the lands, and any card with cipher. That's basically it. I have a friend though that's absolutely in love with extort, but I doubt it's power. It seems cool, but it's no gamebreaking mechanic.


----------



## Asrial

From end to end:

Evolve - That's a kinda cool mechanic. Depends on future applications.
Extort - Flavorful, can work really well.
Bloodrush - Either a creep or a combat trick? Well, that seems convenient.
Battalion - Well... It needs some incredibly broken cards to make it even near standard applicable, so it's a no.
Cipher - Despite derpy mechanic description: HOLY ASDF. WANT.

Gideon - Eh? He can work in white control decks to some extend, but that's about it. I'm calling he's getting banned in EDH. You can get such a stupid amount of charge counters so fast, so he's going to be a GG on a slight delay.
Deathpact - 6 mana 5/5 flying with pseudo regenerate. Damn, that's bad. I mean, it can _work_ in Esper, but still.
Lazav - Straight to EDH. Won't see an awful lot of standard play.
Obzedat - Him on the other hand... Resilient, provides a timer and needs an answer. 5/5 for 5 to boot as well. Approved.


----------



## Brill

I want the simic guild mage and focus mage.
Draw power ftw.


----------



## Xaios

Gideon would be much better if he could target "player" instead of "opponent" with his +1 ability. As is, I'm not exactly sold on him. I'm not entirely convinced he'll be bad though, because lord know, I've been wrong before. Plus, the art is pretty badass.

Definitely gonna pick up a Deathpact Angel for my Vish Kal EDH deck. Obzedat looks to be an excellent constructed beater as he dodges all sorcery-speed removal, as well as Ultimate Price. Lazav also looks like an excellent EDH general. "Oh look, I milled your Ulamog. Looks like I get an Indestructible, Hexproof 10/10 with Annihilator 4." Good thing it still eats it to most Clone cards.


----------



## caskettheclown

Honestly I really like battallion, it looks really good. Not good enough that every creature in my deck needs it but a few look good. Combine it with bloodrush in the same deck, it sounds like a fun deck. Maybe not extremely good deck but fun.

Gideon would be STUPID good in my meta right now that is overrun by aggro humans. Might not be when he comes out but I do definitely want him 

Also the LGS sold a budget monoblue deck that is pretty much abusing Runechanters Pike and controlling the field. 
For 10 bucks it came with the deck, some REALLY beat up sleeves and a deck box. Already did some minor upgrades to it with stuff I already own. Going to play it at FNM this week. So far it is a lot of fun to play.


----------



## Xaios

Oh Lord, struck gold this morning. 

Disagree with social ban - MTG Salvation Forums

The OP of this thread on MTGS retells how his playgroup has house-banned a particular card he was playing because it was "too powerful" against another person's Blue/Black Zombie/Mill deck.

This is that card:







Seriously, one of probably the 5 worst mythics in the whole Innistrad block.

You've gotta read it for yourselves, this shit is s!


----------



## Xaios

Sheesh.






*Rapid Hybridization* (Loose translation)
Destroy target creature. It can't be regenerated. That creature's controller puts a 3/3 green frog and lizard token into play.

They basically reprinted Pongify. Those bastards...

Also, judge foil Imperial Recruiter:


----------



## axxessdenied

I play magic the gathering 2013 on PC 

I used to play the card game back in high school. Algebra was MtG time


----------



## Nile

Is that judge foil Imperial harder to get than the P3K one? And whats it worth?


----------



## caskettheclown

Seriously that card is banned in his playgroup?
I don't think i've laughed that hard in a while.

Its one thing to ban JTMS or Tolarian academy or something that wins games but a card that should only be a minor inconvenience shouldn't have even been brought up.

We all have cards that are very annoying to play against, for me its tribute to hunger when playing my Naya deck. I can still get around it and win if I play right though.


----------



## Xaios

Nile said:


> Is that judge foil Imperial harder to get than the P3K one? And whats it worth?



At this point yes, because it hasn't even been released yet.


----------



## ittoa666

Threw this together a few weeks back. It's damn fun and does pretty well.

4 Color Frites ( MTG Deck)

Still getting a hold of the shocklands though. Need that last temple garden.


----------



## ittoa666

Just scored a ton of cards off of my good friend since he's going into the military. Scavenging ooze just showed up.


----------



## caskettheclown

ittoa666 said:


> Just scored a ton of cards off of my good friend since he's going into the military. Scavenging ooze just showed up.



Kickass!

Anything else good?


Also glad to see someone running an Avacyn Angel of Hope in a deck again! Especially reanimator!


Also made a pretty good Izzet deck, its winning a lot of games on cockatrice. I then added white so I could put in 2 shinx revelation maindeck and 1 in the sideboard and now i'm only a few cards away from having the deck in my hands as we speak. Mana base not included :X


----------



## Xaios

Went 3-1 with my reanimator deck on Friday. Lost to Bant Control in round 4. We only managed to have 1 game, it was so grindy. I *almost* had him though at one point, got him down to 3 life. He the topdecked Sphinx's Revelation. In the end, I decked myself, even though I had over 40 life (gotta love Thragtusk ). Because game 1 took so incredibly long, I conceded the match afterwards.


----------



## ittoa666

caskettheclown said:


> Kickass!
> 
> Anything else good?



Just a bunch of modern playable stuff for the tournaments coming up here for that.




> Also glad to see someone running an Avacyn Angel of Hope in a deck again! Especially reanimator!




Thanks! It's a huge bomb for sure. You play it and sit on a ray of revelation if they o-ring it.


----------



## Asrial

Sorry for the bump, but holy smokes...


----------



## Xaios

Looks good, but I doubt it will see that much constructed play unless Wizards starts pushing Goblins as a tribe again, which I don't see happening until the next block. Goblins have always depended on tribal synergy to be great, unless their name was Goblin Guide, aka "Goblin Jesus."


----------



## Asrial

I might want to emphatize the amount of tokens that's present in standard right now. Swagtusk, Lingering souls, Armada wurm, not to mention the newly reprinted Pongify.


----------



## Xaios

That's true, but who knows what the metagame is going to look like once Gatecrash is released? After all, before RTR came out, even after full spoilers, everyone was like "OMG JUND ZOMBIES BEST DECK EVAAARR." A LOT of top players got taken in by it. It's still a great deck, but hardly the be-all-end-all.


----------



## Brill

red is getting some nice cards in Gatecrash.


----------



## Hemi-Powered Drone

Gatecrash as a whole seems like a fantastic set. Definitely going to be going to the prerelease. 

I'm going to be going Boros, anyone else?


----------



## ittoa666

Simic for me. Dat promo.






Too cool looking.


----------



## devolutionary

Xaios said:


> Looks good, but I doubt it will see that much constructed play unless Wizards starts pushing Goblins as a tribe again, which I don't see happening until the next block. Goblins have always depended on tribal synergy to be great, unless their name was Goblin Guide, aka "Goblin Jesus."



Long term Boros rush would (divisively, no doubt) disagree extensively. Modern/Extended RW aggro? Yes please. Gimme. With Guide, I mean holy hell, that's twisted. And like Guide it's synergistic in aggro, while being a Goblin seems a definite aside. I'm really grooving for what that bad boy can do for my non-Standard play.


----------



## Hemi-Powered Drone

I think it even could have it's use in Standard, it fits perfectly with the goals of playing Boros, getting things out as fast as possible to overwhelm the opponent.


----------



## caskettheclown

I'm almost done building a monowhite tokens deck for Modern.

Tad bit budget but seeing as I already had most of the cards its alright. Though i'm not sure how i'll do . I'll probably get run over or chump block to victory like a champ 


Gatecrash looks disgustingly good though, i'm so excited for it!


----------



## Hemi-Powered Drone

I would be trying to get Blind Obidience from Gatecrash for a monowhite, definitely would be helpful for setting up tokens.

Have you guys seen the spoilers for today? Very EDH friendly if you ask me.

[GTC] All Gatecrash spoilers for 1/16 : magicTCG


----------



## Gabe_LTD

ittoa666 said:


> Simic for me. Dat promo.






I wish the Gruul Promo was better  , like the card Is alright but Fathom mage Is going to destroy once it's on the field..
Plus it's great still fairly early in the game.
Unlike the gruul promo , which he's gonna be great Late game not so much early game.








but atleast wizards finally made a 2 cost +4/4 with trample








Then use this card to put him back in my deck 




Too cool looking.


devolutionary said:


> Long term Boros rush would (divisively, no doubt) disagree extensively. Modern/Extended RW aggro? Yes please. Gimme. With Guide, I mean holy hell, that's twisted. And like Guide it's synergistic in aggro, while being a Goblin seems a definite aside. I'm really grooving for what that bad boy can do for my non-Standard play.







RW aggro is going to destroy with boros charm, Finally Wizards makes a 2 mana card that can potentially do 4 damage, protect your creatures and do double strike damage ? 
Im practically jizzing my pants to make my boros deck for FNM standard tournaments ahah.


I am so conflicted on which guild to go for, boros, simic or Gruul....


----------



## Dan_Vacant

Magic just caught my attention so i bought two booster battle packs,and bought a deck it's a white and green one.


----------



## Asrial

Okay, first up:




He is _very_ standard playable, holy cow. Giant growth him and throw down some tokens asap; it will be crazy.





Goofy design, limited ultra-nuke, standard niché and great in EDH. Can see him fit snugly in a Grimgrin deck. I know he's a bob, but way harder cost and gives enemies cards too in trade for a greater body and flying? Eh, it can go either way, really.

And now for the main event.

I got mail.




Besides fetchlands, shocklands and sulfur falls, my storm deck is assembled and ready for PTQs.


----------



## caskettheclown

I heard people at my FNM saying "Dude did you hear about BOB going super saiyan?", Didn't know what they mean't but now I do 

I like that it affects everybody though, that'll be fun. Oh you drew omniscience ? Nice bro


----------



## Asrial

Okay, official spoiler day.

Dimir just got hit with the uglystick, while Boros just got the best tech ever for limited.
I predict Boros and Gruul are gonna be limited monsters.


----------



## caskettheclown

from looking at the new spoilers i've came to a few conclusions.

Geist of St. Traft will finally be answerable thank god

Wizards hates lingering souls for some damn reason  

Mill will finally be a viable thing (least for FNM)

wizards is really trying to mix it up a bit. 

Maybe i'm crazy cause this is my first standard season that i've ever played.

Boros will be crazy


----------



## Nile

I'll be honest casket. Mill typically will work, just that it will be pretty bad.


----------



## Asrial

If you are playing Dimir for the mill, you are doing it wrong in this instance. Of course they benefit from mill, but in no way should you count on hitting any alternate wincons with them. You should play them as pure control.
Their spells are expensive and requires unblockable dudes to really shine (hence why the keyrune is so good), so what you want to do is play mindgames with the opponent, like use a Soul Random on their fatty, forcing them to pay the discard cost. When that happens, Pongify that creature; you get a fatty removed, a free 3/3 and they lose card advantage. Although, these scenarios should be rather rare with the introduction of Mana Leak 2.0 and Flex-sleep to keep enemies at bay.


----------



## Xaios

I'll be honest. I'm not that particularly excited for Gatecrash, at least not nearly as excited as I was for RTR.


----------



## Asrial

^I guess that's because it was the beginning of the block, just breaching into the idea of shocklands returning to standard and stuff; everybody was really excited. I'm mostly pumped because there's a metric ton of EDH monsters in this block, it has so much more flavor compared to RtR and my favourite guild is present.

And I think I'm gonna build an Esper control for standard then, since they reprinted Beckon Apparition.


----------



## Xaios

Asrial said:


> ^I guess that's because it was the beginning of the block, just breaching into the idea of shocklands returning to standard and stuff; everybody was really excited. I'm mostly pumped because there's a metric ton of EDH monsters in this block, it has so much more flavor compared to RtR and my favourite guild is present.
> 
> And I think I'm gonna build an Esper control for standard then, since they reprinted Beckon Apparition.



Yes, there are a lot of "EDH cards," but the grand majority of them are really uninteresting, even if they are effective. For example, Sylvan Primordial *will* be a green staple. However, the fact is it's a fairly obvious rehash of Woodfall Primus and Terastodon, with some ramp thrown in to seal the deal. It was pushed as an archetypal "EDH Fattie." There aren't that many cards that open up new gamespace, not in the same way that the commanders from the 2011 precon decks did. Now THOSE were interesting cards for the format.

Don't get me wrong, it's not all bad. Lazav, Obzedat and Aurelia will all make fine commanders, and Prime Speaker Zegana will do quite well as part of the 99 in any deck that can run her. I know she'll certainly have a slot in my Animar deck, as will Master Biomancer.


----------



## Hemi-Powered Drone

I just bought three Assemble the Legions because they were $0.86. Probably the most impulsive thing I've ever bought. I'm not sure whether I'm going to regret it or not.


----------



## ShadowFactoryX

orzhov is grossly underwhelming
kinda meh with most of what i saw from this set


----------



## ittoa666

Not as underwhelming as Dimir. Yeah, let's just mill, like that's a new mechanic. It's flavorful but boring.


----------



## ShadowFactoryX

actually there isnt too much im wow'ed with
boros charm is about as beat as it gets, and big deal with the new bob, never cared for the original 
i spent a lot more on RTR than i will on gatecrash thats for sure

gruul has way too many "big" creatures with excessive casting costs.

blahhhh im all butthurt about this set now


----------



## WhiteWalls

Just came back from the prerelease. I always enjoy them mainly because I get to hang out with friends and such, I even did decently (3-1-1 with Gruul) but I really hate the format and this is why:

First of all, much like return to ravnica, I dislike the promo rare thing because they are extremely unbalanced (foundry champion is too good, fathom mage sucks and the others are fine but nothing special), so if you choose boros you already have a huge advantage because of that. Also considering that like 60% of the players chose boros, it gets a bit irritating to play against foundry champion 10 times in a tournament 

Speaking about the guilds as a whole, orzhov is completely unplayable, simic has really bad commons and relies on bomb rares to get the job done, and dimir ranges from mediocre to unplayable depending on how focused on a single strategy your pool is. If you have half good mill cards and half good cipher cards, it's simply impossible to build a good deck. It will be better in draft when you can focus on either mill or cipher.
Gruul and especially boros are incredibly overpowered and also not very interactive gameplay-wise.


----------



## Asrial

I did absolutely horribly in my prerelease (2-0-4; Gruul/Simic), and I have to come with my opinion too:

Foundry champion is whack, agreed, but if anyone managed to get a Boros Reckoner it would be impossible to blow through anything without suiciding. Boros is totally warped it's not even funny.
Simic has some niiiice tricks, and Fathom mage can really work when put in the right situation, but other than that, running it as a main guild is playing hard mode.
Gruul was surprisingly inconsistent. My first game was literally 5 minutes from first shuffle to 2-0 victory, while the next match was a long and hard screw-over. Rubblehulk had the potential to be stupidly good, but there just isn't much actual land ramp in this set afaik to break him, he's suspectible to a lot of removal, and bloodrushing him is either going to be a waste at 3 or a gamble at 6+.
Dimir was... Interesting. Some did amazingly well, while others brutally flopped. I think one of the top 4 was actually Dimir, so that's something I have to keep my mind on.
And Orzhov. How can you get those as unplayable? I got absolutely plowed by the only opponent I faced with Orzhov, who then also utterly destroyed my Boros-playing friend (he was screwed twice, but still). Another one got Obzedat in her pack, and every time he hit the board it was pretty much a victory, while other players just stalled to great success.


----------



## WhiteWalls

Maybe it was just the orzhov decks I saw personally that were underpowered, but they all seemed to screw around and do nothing really game breaking. I mean draining a couple life with extort is cute, but it's more of an added bonus on some cards, rather than something you can build around as your main gameplan. Even if you manage to have 2-3 extort cards on the table, those won't matter much when you are being constantly attacked by boros/gruul dudes, or when your opponent is milling you.
Obzedat is one of the most busted cards in the whole set though, so a deck packing that can win even if the other cards are 39 lands to be honest 

About gruul not being consistent, it depends what you mean: it's consistent in the fact that its gameplay is very linear and many of its cards are very similar (it's just dudes, bloodthirst and some burn), so as long as you draw a fine mix of lands and creatures you're fine, considering your creatures double as combat tricks too; but it's certainly more dependent on its explosive starts than other guilds


----------



## Asrial

Gruul is very dependant on what you pick in the packs really. I had, beyond 2 rubblehulks, 6-7 other creatures with bloodthirst in total, where a good amount of them were those annoying 2/4's that doesn't do much but sit. No zhur-taas, no ghor-clan, no skinbrand and only a single slaughterhorn. Rest was scorchwalkers and scab-clans. While the scorchwalker, when used, did a ton of work, I can't feel but missed out when I revisit the list of creatures with the mechanic.

Compared to other players, those as unfortunate as me did around the same as me, while those who got the better cards did waaay better.


----------



## caskettheclown

When I said that mill will be a viable deck, I guess I should've clarified . I mean control decks that win through mill/damage will be viable.

Went to the prerelease and picked orzhov, picked it because for some reason thought I would have a better chance of getting the dual land. I was half asleep so don't judge me haha.
I got horrible pulls. I did however get an Aurelia the warleader and 2 blind obedience. Did meh at the tournament but w/e it was fun. Gave aurelia to my girlfriend and am now only after godless shrines and a couple watery graves for my esper control list


----------



## Xaios

WhiteWalls said:


> Maybe it was just the orzhov decks I saw personally that were underpowered, but they all seemed to screw around and do nothing really game breaking. I mean draining a couple life with extort is cute, but it's more of an added bonus on some cards, rather than something you can build around as your main gameplan. Even if you manage to have 2-3 extort cards on the table, those won't matter much when you are being constantly attacked by boros/gruul dudes, or when your opponent is milling you.



Agreed. I played Orzhov yesterday, and I definitely regret it. Granted, I probably had the weakest pool of any Orzhov deck at that prerelease, so some of them were better, but none were incredible.



WhiteWalls said:


> Obzedat is one of the most busted cards in the whole set though, so a deck packing that can win even if the other cards are 39 lands to be honest



Agreed again. I faced off against one in one round, and it just _wrecked_ me.

Heading out now to play 2 more pre-release events. Playing Simic in the first one. After that, playing Boros in a 2HG event.


----------



## Hemi-Powered Drone

I was only able to stay for my first match at the PreRelease I went to, unfortunately. At least I got some fantastic pulls, namely not one, but two Stomping Grounds! I need to check the value on the other cards, but I feel like Naya is calling me.


----------



## ShadowFactoryX

i havent been to a prerelease since original ravnica block 
not worth the price, or the over-serious tool bags you end up playing.

plus i totally suck at limited in the worst way

i've reviewed gatecrash at least 8 times and i just cant get over how unbalanced it is. as mentioned, boros in limited is wacked out beatstick type madness. which, boros was strong the first time around, i thought the idea to revisit ravnica was to get all the guilds on the same power level?


----------



## Hemi-Powered Drone

I thought it was more because Ravnica was a fun block, and so is RTR.


----------



## ittoa666

Went to two prereleases, and I have to say that Orzhov has the best limited mechanic. That health gain from extort is vital.


----------



## Hemi-Powered Drone

Yeah, but Boros kills with all the low cost creatures. Limited is an aggro format and Boros is the most aggro guild.

The Dragon's Maze Prerelease : Daily MTG : Magic: The Gathering

Prepare for the price of Shock Lands to go down.
Also, I find it funny how the promo for this set is a basic land since the set doesn't have any.


----------



## wespaul

I have a question:

If a set (let's say Magic 2014, hypothetically speaking) is released, and it contains an old card, like Lake of the Dead, would I be required to buy the new M14 card, or would I be able to use my 10+ year old card now that it's been reintroduced?


----------



## Xaios

wespaul said:


> I have a question:
> 
> If a set (let's say Magic 2014, hypothetically speaking) is released, and it contains an old card, like Lake of the Dead, would I be required to buy the new M14 card, or would I be able to use my 10+ year old card now that it's been reintroduced?



No, so long as a card is legal in the format, it doesn't matter which edition of the card you use. Otherwise there would be a lot of unhappy people who would have to re-obtain the newest core set dual-lands every year.

As for yesterday's 2 pre-release events:

- In the morning I played Simic. I built an awesome BUG deck (interestingly enough, both when I played Orzhov and Dimir, I managed to open both a Lazav and a Consuming Aberration). However, despite having 2 Simic Guildgates, 2 Dimir Guildgates and a Prophetic Prism, I lost 3 rounds to color-screw. I am the most unlucky person on the face of the fucking earth when it comes to mana problems. It surprises no one at my game store anymore when I lose to mana problems, despite having the best mana base that money can buy. Ended up 2-3.

- In the afternoon, I played a 2HG tournament. Despite choosing Boros, my deck ended up being Gruul with a small white splash due to the cards we opened. My partner, who chose Dimir, ended up with an Esper deck that was decidedly more Orzhov than Dimir. We did well, going 3-1.

Exactly a year ago, at the Dark Ascension pre-release, I grabbed 1st place in _three_ tournaments. I guess I used up every ounce of luck I've ever had and will ever have in order to do so.


----------



## ittoa666

Seething Song and Bloodbraid Elf Banned in Modern : ChannelFireball &#8211; Magic: The Gathering Strategy, Singles, Cards, Decks

And just before I bought my Bloodbraid's. Sucks.


----------



## Xaios

ittoa666 said:


> Seething Song and Bloodbraid Elf Banned in Modern : ChannelFireball  Magic: The Gathering Strategy, Singles, Cards, Decks
> 
> And just before I bought my Bloodbraid's. Sucks.



Jund will find something else to take its place, Huntmaster of the Fells probably. And hey, better than just after.


----------



## Asrial

I just bought my storm deck, I even got foils of seething song!


----------



## traditional

Hey guys, 
Sorry if it's been covered, but this thread is massive.
I've taken an interest in this game, but would have no idea how to play or where to start.
Any pointers on where to start?

Any help would be realllllly appreciated!


----------



## caskettheclown

The banning of bitterblossom is the only thing keeping me from playing faeries 
So every time it doesn't get unbanned I get a feel.


Maybe i'll just build a budget version of faeries for casual matches since I do miss it a lot more than I should.
Also since i'm investing all my magic budget into my esper control list i've really wanted to rebuild so many decks again, my reanimator mainly. Also wanted to add a NO package to my elf deck.


Traditional- The best way to learn the game is to buy an intro pack and just dive right in basically. Do you have a card shop you can go to? If so then go there and hang out for a few hours and ask people if they can show you how to play. I bought an intro deck and learned through the rulebook that came with it. That will show you the basics and you can pretty much start playing from there. After you get a grip on the game then you can learn how "the stack" works and things like that.

Beware though, this game can be incredibly addicting and you can spend a TON of money on it sometimes. You don't have to spend a lot of money on it though. I've done really well with building decks for really cheap or modifying intro packs.


----------



## UV7BK4LIFE

traditional said:


> Hey guys,
> Sorry if it's been covered, but this thread is massive.
> I've taken an interest in this game, but would have no idea how to play or where to start.
> Any pointers on where to start?
> 
> Any help would be realllllly appreciated!


 
Product-wise, I'd start with the deckbuilders toolkit and a non-blue, non-black event deck:

Deck Builder's Toolkit : Wizards of the Coast

Magic 2013 Event Decks : Wizards of the Coast

With the event deck you can play right away and have a fair chance of playing a decent game and along with the toolkit you can take it from there and tweak the deck as you like without breaking the bank.

Then just call over some friends or go to your LGS and have fun! Once you're familiar with the basic rules you can start learning some tricks.

Keep in mind that the rules from the basic rules booklet are frequently broken by what the cards say, basically that's what makes it fun. 

If there's anything you need to know just send me a PM, no problem.


----------



## Asrial

Okay, to start you out: Grab Duels of the Planeswalkers 2013 on any device you see fit (iPad, computer, xbox you name it). It's a really good and cheap start on learning the basic mechanics and rules.

And depending on your budget, you can do as UV7 suggested and buy a toolkit and an event-deck if you happen to know some other players. Saying no to anything blue or black leaves you with just one viable option, so I don't know if that's a good thing, doesn't really make all that much of a difference. It just depends on what kind of stuff you want to do.

Rundown of the five main colors, and what they do, besides a *rough* idea of how they win games:
White - Smaller creatures, but more of them. Kind of righteous in most scenarios. [Midrange]
Blue - Intelligence and knowledge. It's more of a controlling color than a "bash face in". [Control]
Black - Win, no matter the cost. There's a decent amount of both controlling and agressive options, and albeit at times powerful, they can hurt you too. [Tempo]
Red - Complete and utter aggro! They focus mostly on spellcasting and destruction, but also bolsters a ton of goblins. [Aggro]
Green - The bigger the better. There's a slight focus on getting a ton of recources (land) and then playing biiiig creatures that simply hurts a lot. [Stalling]

Another good piece of advice is to attend an FNM draft at your local game store, preferably with a friend. It's not the smartest to do when you're completely green, but it's a great way to build a playerbase for future games and events.


----------



## Hemi-Powered Drone

Asrial said:


> Another good piece of advice is to attend an FNM draft at your local game store, preferably with a friend. It's not the smartest to do when you're completely green, but it's a great way to build a playerbase for future games and events.



That's what I did to get back into the game. Of course, look up the rules before it so you kind of know what your doing, and definitely go with a friend so they can help you with ruling and drafting itself. It's also helpful to go to a store with friendly staff and regulars, lest you get turned off of the game by some dick who doesn't like noobs. There was a kid at one prerelease that was new to the game, a guy got him to trade an Obzedat for a $1 rare and told him to put it in his deck, which would DQ him. The judges found the Obzedat wasn't in his deck, but the owner was kind enough to make the guy trade back lest he not let him play at the store again.


----------



## Asrial

I read about that on reddit! Any chance that was you that posted that story? 

And yeah, if you happen to get a card with an orange mark instead of a black/silver/golden, hold on to it!


----------



## Hemi-Powered Drone

Asrial said:


> I read about that on reddit! Any chance that was you that posted that story?
> 
> And yeah, if you happen to get a card with an orange mark instead of a black/silver/golden, hold on to it!



Nah, I was just retelling, probably should have clarified.


----------



## UV7BK4LIFE

Asrial said:


> Saying no to anything blue or black leaves you with just one viable option, so I don't know if that's a good thing, doesn't really make all that much of a difference.
> 
> Blue - Intelligence and knowledge. It's more of a controlling color than a "bash face in". [Control]
> Black - Win, no matter the cost. There's a decent amount of both controlling and agressive options, and albeit at times powerful, they can hurt you too. [Tempo]


 
For people who have never played, Blue and has the weakest creatures in combat = no fun to learn combat. Blue heavily relies on synergy while starting players are better off with cards that play well as a standalone card.

Black can be done but has some mechanics that make you pay life or sacrifice permanents. It's too easy to help your opponent winning with black, if you have no experience in gameplay whatsoever. 

Hence my advice.

I would go for something Green/Red or Green/White with some green fatty creatures to get the hang of it.


----------



## UV7BK4LIFE

dragonblade629 said:


> It's also helpful to go to a store with friendly staff and regulars, lest you get turned off of the game by some dick who doesn't like noobs.


 
My first real tournament was the Dutch Legacy national championship. Man, did I piss off some people, I had to read every card that hit the table before responding. I did place 17th out of 138 participants


----------



## caskettheclown

new judge foil coming out

Xiao's i'm expecting you to have one by the end of the week since you tend to get everything early 


I'm glad its getting judge'd out though, surprised it hasn't before to be honest.

new art is pretty cool although it looks more "Swords to golf clubs" a little bit to me

thoughts?


----------



## Xaios

caskettheclown said:


> new judge foil coming out
> 
> Xiao's i'm expecting you to have one by the end of the week since you tend to get everything early
> 
> 
> I'm glad its getting judge'd out though, surprised it hasn't before to be honest.
> 
> new art is pretty cool although it looks more "Swords to golf clubs" a little bit to me
> 
> thoughts?



Haha, Judge Foils are a little harder to get than that. Alas, I'm no judge, so I don't get those foils unless I buy them. 

And yeah, you're right about the art looking more like a golf club. I've taken to calling that version "Swords to Timeshares." 

It probably took so long to make a Judge Promo of this card because a) it's an uncommon, and most Judge Foils are rares/mythics. Also, it was previously foiled as an FNM foil, although it had the original art.

It would also be a lot more desirable if they had used the art from the Dual Decks: Elspeth vs. Tezzeret version. That would look awesome foiled.


----------



## Xaios

Best find of the day: Magic Cards with Googly Eyes


----------



## ittoa666

Tbh, that Swords judge promo looks pretty bad.


----------



## Asrial

The idea of an actual soldier turning to a farmer is good, it's just the execution that's horrid. IMO, Terese's art with the black guy with his sword on his shoulders is still the best, craftmanshipwise, while the art from Ice Age is the best from an artistic point of view.

Also, I've been pondering about Vintage as a format. It's essentially the most healthy format in the game, but also the most expensive, because of the scarcity of the staples. It will, as a format, die eventually, because people either eventually ruin their moxes or dual lands, or simply preserve them due to their extreme price. Eventually, wouldn't the format die as a sanctioned event, or will WotC provide reprints for tournament-only use? Because it would make the format so much more viable for the playerbase, even though it does requires them to reprint those expensive cards, even though they can mark them. Think of it like the holiday cube really; a huge set of vintage stables given to the tournament holders, which is chipped (anti-theft) and can be rented for the event. It doesn't even mess with the collectors, since it's A) specially printed and chipped, B) easily recognizable as a seperate product (think Mona Lisa vs replicas) and C) still gonna be a fairly limited and exclusive thing.

Mind you, this is just a thought for way into the future.


----------



## Hemi-Powered Drone

If I played Vintage I wouldn't care how stupid it looks or difficult it is the use, I would probably use toploaders as sleeves. Those cards are too valuable.

Anyone going to be getting Modern Masters packs? I don't play Modern, but I feel like I could create a deck if I got some of the staples. Who knows, maybe they'll make a Vintage Masters, though without the cards on the Reserve List.


----------



## ittoa666

You bet I'll be getting a modern masters box if it's affordable!


----------



## caskettheclown

Don't want to clutter the page with a multiquote sooo

Xiao's- I've had many of my friends tell me they think the duel decks STP's art is racist, i'm in alabama so what do you expect. Personally I love it as well and think its badass! 

Asrial- I like the idea of reprinting cards strictly for tourney use but that wouldn't do much to local tournaments that are held in local shops around the world/nation. I just wish they would let us proxy up a max of X amount of cards. Not the whole deck obviously but a certain amount cause not everyone is going to want to bring "Limited pre-alpha edition quadruple land" to the tournament due to theft or possibility of damage. Plus some cards are stupid hard to find so it would open up the format a bit to more players, not to mention the money you'd save. They could also just reprint proxies and let people print it out and so on. Just half asleep brainstorming here.

Ittoa and Drone- I plan on getting a good amount of boosters and drafting as well depending on the price. My LGS already said they are drafting for sure so that'll be fun


----------



## Nile

They have allowed in Vintage tournaments before up to 10 proxies. The reason those cards are so valuable is because it helps you win tournanets. That is one side to their cost. If they made vintage staples that could be used at any vintage tournaments (only), it would still mess with the prices somewhat.

If they think the duel deck Swords is racist, then their racist. The fuck would be racist on that card? Its just a black guy.

Asrial, Swords to Plowshares is a farmer becoming a warrior, hence the name. Unless you mean by what the art looks like. I believe the farmer should have been on the left side, because how most everyone ever see it is from left is the original, to right is what it has become. That is how I believe people see and interpret the picture. It looks like a warrior became broke.


----------



## Xaios

Nile said:


> Asrial, Swords to Plowshares is a farmer becoming a warrior, hence the name.



Uh, actually, it means the reverse. "Swords to plowshares" is a concept by which military technology is repurposed for civilian use. The name is a reference to a biblical passage, Isaiah 2:4:



> And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their *swords into plowshares*, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.


----------



## Nile

I stand corrected. Card is still cool as fuck.


----------



## Xaios

Nile said:


> I stand corrected. Card is still cool as fuck.



Agreed.

Had my first real EDH game tonight in pretty well forever after tonight's Gatecrash release draft. For the past... I dunno, _year_, it's basically been me and one other guy playing 1V1 in our spare time. Today we finally had a decent game, 5 people. I played Animar, then to my left was Progenitus (he was playing drake/dragon tribal but didn't own a Scion of the Ur-Dragon), Omnath (my deck, the guy didn't have his own with him), Rhys the Redeemed and finally Experiment Kraj. Unfortunately we had to stop early because the store was closing... but I was winning.  (I really was, I had Equilibrium online, plenty of mana, a fully charged Animar, a bunch of utility ETB dudes and a Venser, Shaper Savant to keep bouncing crap.)

My Animar deck pretty much folds to board wipes though, so thankfully no one else at the table was playing any.

At one point in the game, the guy playing Experiment Kraj decided to go infinite with Fathom Mage, Gyre Sage and Gilder Bairn (and some other stuff). He was not pleased when I bounced his Kraj in response.


----------



## caskettheclown

Nile said:


> They have allowed in Vintage tournaments before up to 10 proxies. The reason those cards are so valuable is because it helps you win tournanets. That is one side to their cost. If they made vintage staples that could be used at any vintage tournaments (only), it would still mess with the prices somewhat.
> 
> If they think the duel deck Swords is racist, then their racist. The fuck would be racist on that card? Its just a black guy.
> 
> Asrial, Swords to Plowshares is a farmer becoming a warrior, hence the name. Unless you mean by what the art looks like. I believe the farmer should have been on the left side, because how most everyone ever see it is from left is the original, to right is what it has become. That is how I believe people see and interpret the picture. It looks like a warrior became broke.



didnt know they allowed it in some tournaments.

Well they probably are racist to be honest, plethora of idiots in Alabama sadly.


----------



## Dan_Vacant

Yesterday I made my first deck It's a white deck, and I found out of more people in my small little town that play.


----------



## caskettheclown

Dan_Vacant said:


> Yesterday I made my first deck It's a white deck, and I found out of more people in my small little town that play.




When I started playing , I found a whole bunch of people I knew as soon as I walked into my local card shop. It was WEIRD! Its like magic is the massive thing that no one talks about unless they know you play!


----------



## Nile

Me, my brother and another friend played Yu-Gi-Oh before but we gave that up and like a year or more later we all took up magic at the same time. Smalllllll ass town so obviously no one we can find that plays. Our other friend has played for years.


----------



## Xaios

caskettheclown said:


> When I started playing , I found a whole bunch of people I knew as soon as I walked into my local card shop. It was WEIRD! Its like magic is the massive thing that no one talks about unless they know you play!



First rule of FNM: You do not talk about FNM.


----------



## Hemi-Powered Drone

Anyone mind critqueing the Naya Standard deck I just made (using cards I own)?


----------



## Xaios

Hemi-Powered Drone said:


> Anyone mind critqueing the Naya Standard deck I just made (using cards I own)?



I'll be honest, it's kind of a mish-mash that I'm not sure will be particularly effective. You've got a bizarre mix of Battalion, Populate and Bloodrush going on there. Also, I'd be lying if I didn't point out that some of those cards are simply not constructed-worthy. Ordruun Veteran, for example, is a junk card, it's not even good in Limited because of how fragile it is. Guardian of the Gateless, Adaptive Snapjaw, Court Street Denizen and Seller of Songbirds are also simply not good enough for constructed. A lot of the instants and sorceries are pretty questionable too. Heroes' Reunion is an especially "WTF?" card.

More than anything though, you need to pick a theme and go with it. Personally, I would ditch the populate theme altogether. Battalion and Bloodrush mesh reasonably well as they're both aggressive mechanics, but populate is quite slow by comparison. 

The good news is that there are a few nice and cheap cards you can use in lieu of those. Ghor-Clan Rampager is not only quite cheap (under $1 each), but it's also easily the best of the Bloodrush cards. Slaughterhorn is also fairly costed.

If you want decent Battalion cards, start off with Boros Elite. They're cheap in both price and mana cost, and aggressive. Another decent option for a 1 drop is Experiment One.

Another good common that will fit your curve nicely is Centaur Healer. Honestly, this card is good enough that I run 2 of them maindeck along with Thragtusk in my Reanimator deck, and I've got 2 more in the sideboard. They're just really reasonably costed guys. Their P/T is right on curve, and the life bump they provide can really help against other aggressive decks.

Your removal is looking pretty light. I'd throw in some Searing Spears, along with Pillar of Flame in the sideboard to deal with Undying.

Lastly, you're a little shy on the land front, throw in 2 or 3 more. When I was running a highly tuned W/G humans deck, my highest costed creature was 4, and there were only 4 of them in the deck, and I still ran 22 land. If you don't add more, you will run into problems, especially with the use of guildgates, which brings us to another problem: guildgates are TERRIBLE for aggro decks because they always come in tapped. If at all possible, obtain some more shocklands, as well as checklands (M10 style dual lands). You'll want Clifftop Retreat, Sunpetal Grove and Rootbound Crag. The latter 2 are quite inexpensive at this point, as they've been printed 4 times now.

I don't mean to be harsh, I really don't, so I apologize if it sounds like I'm tearing your deck apart, it's not my intention.


----------



## ittoa666

You definitely need to narrow down your card choices for maximum effect.

:EDIT: Playtested once and didn't get a plains til turn 8.


----------



## ittoa666

Any opinions on this deck btw?

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/jund-middish-range/

Threw it together the other day.


----------



## Hemi-Powered Drone

Xaios said:


> I don't mean to be harsh, I really don't, so I apologize if it sounds like I'm tearing your deck apart, it's not my intention.



The thing is, that's exactly what I want. I knew that my deck was probably flawed in more ways than one, and some of the things you pointed out are not the only time they were, and I wanted critique that specifically detailed the problems. If someone doesn't make them noticed to I sure won't see them, at least for a while. I mean, the whole point of this list was to start with something that I can build off of. The deck is only made up of cards I actually own, but now I have ideas that will help me figure out where to take it and which cards I should be looking for.

As for the Populate, I'm using that as I think that it's useful for getting large amount of creatures out, one of the biggest things about Boros, especially with Battalion (I do plan to get more cards that use it). The Bloodrush is there mostly because I thought it might be handy to splash in a bit of Gruul, it is not a main mechanic of the deck.

Also, what's wrong with Heroes' Reunion? GW for 7 health isn't good? I swear, it has saved my ass multiple times.



ittoa666 said:


> :EDIT: Playtested once and didn't get a plains til turn 8.



Yeah, I played the deck a few times with the group at my school and we I got manascrewed a few times. Thinking I might invest in a Temple Garden and/or Sacred Foundry.


----------



## Xaios

Hemi-Powered Drone said:


> As for the Populate, I'm using that as I think that it's useful for getting large amount of creatures out, one of the biggest things about Boros, especially with Battalion (I do plan to get more cards that use it).



Populate is way too slow to properly enable Battalion, and straight-up Boros requires being very fast out of the gate in order to win.



Hemi-Powered Drone said:


> Also, what's wrong with Heroes' Reunion? GW for 7 health isn't good? I swear, it has saved my ass multiple times.



Cards that do nothing but gain life are a bad strategy in general. Heroes' Reunion is among the best of that kind of card, but being the best at doing something fairly useless isn't much of a compliment. Yes, the life gain from Thragtusk is quite valuable, but it would be worthless without the two bodies that it provides. Timely Reinforcements was great for the same reason.


----------



## WhiteWalls

Xaios said:


> Cards that do nothing but gain life are a bad strategy in general. Heroes' Reunion is among the best of that kind of card, but being the best at doing something fairly useless isn't much of a compliment. Yes, the life gain from Thragtusk is quite valuable, but it would be worthless without the two bodies that it provides. Timely Reinforcements was great for the same reason.



Despite everyone at my store telling me I'm an idiot I had a pretty good impression with Heroes' Reunion in draft though. 7 life is a lot and it easily works like a fog in racing situations, plus it's a very efficient counter for explosive impact. Still I would never play it if I had the fog + populate card which is just infinite times better

@hemi: If you want an advice which will take you a long way in building decks, 20 lands is ALWAYS too little, except in very particular cases like a very fast monored burn deck where everything costs less than 3 mana. Some standard decks easily play 25 lands + 4 farseek to be able to hit their spells at the right time consistently


----------



## Xaios

WhiteWalls said:


> Despite everyone at my store telling me I'm an idiot I had a pretty good impression with Heroes' Reunion in draft though. 7 life is a lot and it easily works like a fog in racing situations, plus it's a very efficient counter for explosive impact.



Fair enough, but I'm referring specifically to constructed. Draft is a completely different animal. Some cards that are great in Standard suck the big one in draft, and vice versa.


----------



## Xaios

Building a Naya deck, haven't decided if I'm gonna go straight Midrange or for the human variant. Should be fun though. I still have many fond memories of good ole' Naya Allies.


----------



## ittoa666

I'd go midrange. A few more options and a little bit more killing capability is always good.


----------



## wespaul

Anybody play on Magic Online? Thoughts?


----------



## Slayer89

Magic Online is pretty sweet. I'm considering making the switch from paper, but I enjoy the social aspect of paper magic.

Played in a TCGPlayer Platinum event yesterday. A couple personal issues kept my mind off the game long enough to lose me a key game and miss my chances at Top 8, but at least I made Top 32 and got a sweet new mat.


----------



## wespaul

I joined up today. Not too bad. I was able to reconstruct an old deck of mine by going through and trading event tickets for old cards. I was surprised how cheap some of the trades were, but I'm sure that has everything to do with not being able to redeem the cards. For about 25 event tickets ($25), I was able to score 4x Lake of the Deads, 2x Sinkholes, 4x Howling Mines, 4x Font of Mythos, 4x Underworld Dreams, 2x Demonic Tutors, and a bunch of other rares. It was also an easy/cheap way to round up to 4 of all the commons and uncommons I wanted.

I still want to play standard, though, but good cards are hard to find, and/or way too expensive. It's still fun playing with weak/unfinished decks, though.

I remember when Magic Online was first launched, it was a couple years after I stopped playing. I thought how cool it was compared to Apprentice, which everybody was using on IRC at the time. I'm glad that it's still around.


----------



## Watty

I thought I'd make a different kind of contribution to the thread and say that I stopped playing along ago. This is a money pit for sure. Doesn't help that me and a buddy brought our friend to a tournament once (he knew the basics) and he ended up winning with a deck we threw together a few hours prior. Talk about a downer...


----------



## ittoa666

It's only a money pit if you don't know how to trade, or if you don't have a group of friends willing to let you borrow what you need (if they have it). It's all in how you deal with card acquisition.


----------



## Xaios

ittoa666 said:


> It's only a money pit if you don't know how to trade, or if you don't have a group of friends willing to let you borrow what you need (if they have it). It's all in how you deal with card acquisition.



Erm, it can still be a gigantic money pit even if those two factors are true.


----------



## Watty

Xaios said:


> Erm, it can still be a gigantic money pit even if those two factors are true.



Uh, yep. Me and a few other buddies played. It doesn't matter how you can get cards when someone has to get extremely lucky with a booster or pay $25+ a pop for the cards that will win you money...


----------



## Xaios

Watty said:


> Uh, yep. Me and a few other buddies played. It doesn't matter how you can get cards when someone has to get extremely lucky with a booster or pay $25+ a pop for the cards that will win you money...



It's actually generally cheaper in the long run to buy singles rather than open booster packs. Of course, the irony is that people have to open booster packs in order for there to be any singles to buy. Smart trading CAN certainly help, as well. I got my Boros Reckoners by trading mostly junk rares and extra lands when they were $10 on SCG, now they're $30. 

Granted, opening booster boxes is a lot of fun, and nothing quite beats packing an awesome foil.

One nice thing is that my EDH card pool is more or less about 75% complete and quite well stocked for most format staples, so if I want to build a deck for which I'm missing certain cards, they're usually not expensive to attain. For example, I need a Righteous War in order to build an Oros, the Avenger deck that I'm planning. I've got the expensive format staples out of the way already, it's just the cheap "super secret tech" cards that I'm missing.


----------



## wespaul

I learned quick that buying booster packs is a money-sink. Shortly after Gatecrash was released, I was able to score a complete set of 4 of each common/uncommon card for $30. I then went about buying the rares that I wanted from various other dealers to construct the decks I wanted. Save for a few stupidly-priced cards, it wasn't _that_ much (to me, at least).

I'm amazed how many junk rares there are in the game today. Back in the mid/late 90s, even crappy rares were worth a dollar or two. It was worth it to buy booster packs, because you always had a good chance on breaking even on the worth of the cards you got. Now I buy a booster pack and most of the time will get a rare that's only worth 10 cents.


----------



## WhiteWalls

Yeah I feel right now we are back to a point where prices are somewhat acceptable, even though the mythic rarity has done nothing but bad things to the game in my opinion, because the price of the good rares hasn't really decreased enough to justify 40-50$ cards.
When Worldwake was released I pretty much HAD to quit constructed magic because the only options were: playing one of the many 1000$ decks, or playing monored (which was just bad)

Since I got seriously into music I don't have any time (and money ) to brew decks and play PTQs, so I just draft online and at my store


----------



## ShadowFactoryX

i got a buncha simic based cards, but i cant think of a theme to build around. i got velkaden heretic that I like his mechianic, and i also like the +1 counters function of other cards
any advice?


----------



## Hemi-Powered Drone

Xaios said:


> Erm, it can still be a gigantic money pit even if those two factors are true.



I comfort myself with the fact I'm not spending as much money as my Warhammer 40K playing friend.


----------



## ShadowFactoryX

Hemi-Powered Drone said:


> I comfort myself with the fact I'm not spending as much money as my Warhammer 40K playing friend.



i nearly got involved in that
games workshop stays afloat by bankrupting all of its players

just keep in mind, wizards doesnt control market prices, they control supply, they're playing the game well


----------



## Xaios

WhiteWalls said:


> When Worldwake was released I pretty much HAD to quit constructed magic because the only options were: playing one of the many 1000$ decks, or playing monored (which was just bad)



Shoulda played Jund. Aside from the lands and and Maelstrom Pulse, it was a pretty cheap deck to build, and still quite relevant at the time. All those fetchlands have only appreciated in time as well. Glad I kept all mine (except for the 2 Verdant Catacombs that went through the wash ).

And yeah, Kor Firewalker did kinda take the wind out of mono-red's sails, but it was still a pretty good deck then too.


----------



## Asrial

Trying to dive into standard now!

That is an Esper tempo-mill. I try to run Phantasm and WoP6 as the main beaters of the deck, while keeping it fairly straight-forward: counter stuff, mill stuff and pump the small guys into mini-goyfs. I'm still undecided on a lot of cards right now, but that's pretty much how the deck is looking right now. Feedback welcome!


----------



## Xaios

I'd say you could probably use a couple board wipes. Supreme Verdict or Terminus would do the trick nicely, maybe with a singleton Merciless Eviction in the sideboard to deal with Planeswalkers.


----------



## Asrial

Since it is kind of grave-based, I wouldn't use Terminus or M.Eviction, since they kind of defeat the purpose of grave-based strategies. That's also the reason I run Psychic strike over Dissipate.

S.Verdict on the other hand was a nice suggestion, will consider that!


----------



## ittoa666

Snapcaster + mind sculpt sounds like broken.


----------



## Nile

ittoa666 said:


> Snapcaster + mind sculpt sounds like broken.



Good. Not broken.


----------



## ittoa666

Nile said:


> Good. Not broken.



It can be done.....


----------



## Xaios

Snapcaster Mage + Swords to Plowshares/Path to Exile is broken. Snaps + Mind Sculpt is okay.


----------



## ittoa666

Man......why can I never have my fun?


----------



## Xaios

Pfft, Magic isn't supposed to be _fun_...


----------



## ittoa666

Xaios said:


> Pfft, Magic isn't supposed to be _fun_...


----------



## Asrial

Got an FNM report of my Esper tempo deck i linked earlier. I went 2-2, and both had some insanely close matches, some horrid matches and some fairly bonkers matches (I swing for 14, fog? countered, swing for lethal instead).

It doesn't quite measure up against Bant, but against anything aggro-based it has decent potential.


----------



## ittoa666

So I decided to play jund at gamesday. Ended up top fouring because I made the last minute decision of adding 4 ghor-clan rampagers. Was linking for 6 with that and nighthawk.


----------



## Xaios

Went 2-2 w/ Naya Midrange on Friday. Got land-flooded all day long on my losses. When that wasn't happening, I was beating serious face.


----------



## Xaios

Here's my decklist for my Naya Midrange deck, by the way. The premise of the deck is essentially "stick every awesome Naya-colored card in a deck and beat fucking face."

It's still a bit of a WIP in a couple areas such as the ramp and burn, but the core of the deck, aka "the beatsticks" is very functional.

4x Avacyn's Pilgrim
1x Arbor Elf
4x Boros Reckoner
4x Loxodon Smiter
4x Huntmaster of the Fells
4x Restoration Angel
4x Thragtusk
2x Aurelia, the Warleader

2x Farseek
3x Searing Spear
2x Mizzium Mortars
1x Aurelia's Fury
1x Bonfire of the Damned

4x Temple Garden
4x Sunpetal Grove
4x Stomping Ground
4x Rootbound Crag
2x Sacred Foundry
2x Clifftop Retreat
2x Forest
2x Kessig Wolf Run

After today's Game Day draft (I top-8'd), I played a whole bunch of test games against people that stayed behind, and it led me to believe that my mana problems yesterday were a simple aberration, because I was beating face all over the place today. I even managed to beat someone with a Gisela, Blade of Goldnight on the field.


----------



## Slayer89

Played in 2 gameday events this weekend with Esper Control. Went 2-2 Saturday because I mulliganed poorly my last game. Today I went undefeated until the finals, me and my opponent agreed on a prize split, and then I lost a good matchup. Didn't mind much because it was a friend and I had good games all day. Walked away with the mat, 8 packs, and have some cash coming once my friend sells the From the Vault pack he got.


----------



## Xaios

On a challenge, a few of us are building tribal EDH decks. The conditions were that the deck would have to have at least 30 cards of the given tribe, and the most powerful tribes (elves, goblins, wizards and slivers) were off-limit.

So I built a Darien, King of Kjeldor soldier deck, something I'd been wanting to try for a while. The necessity for 30 soldier cards means that, with me not owning a few of the best choices, a few of the slots have been filled by... questionable cards for EDH. 

Overall though, I'm actually quite happy with how it's running. The key with Darien is to build around him so that you can trigger his effect yourself, and then actually benefit from it. Because the damage doesn't have to come from opponents, you can actually trigger it yourself, at instant speed even. So you throw in lands like City of Brass, Grand Coliseum and Ancient Tomb. If you've got Darien on the field, you can use those lands to damage yourself to create chump blockers at instant speed, or create tokens at the end of your opponent's turn so that they can attack on your turn.

Furthermore, you use those in conjunction with cards that gain you life when creatures come into play under your control. Some of these cards would be really janky in almost any other deck, but here they work. They're cards like Soul's Attendant, Soul Warden, Suture Priest and Angelic Chorus (which benefits from anthem effects). If you can get multiples out, it actually makes it so that you gain more life than you lose when your soldier tokens come into play. Add to that, if someone attacks you, unless they can do lethal damage, you can just let it through, because you'll gain more life back than the damage they dealt, and a whole whack of creatures as well.

It's a neat little deck, I really enjoy it.


----------



## ittoa666

That's actually a really neat idea. Might have to try that with my buddies.


----------



## Asrial

I'm also in the proces of building a Ghave, Guru of Spores deck, sort of in between aggro and combo.

The deck builds around creating a flood of huge tokens thanks to enablers (Sigil Captain, Cathar's crusade and Beastmaster ascension to name a few), using mostly token doublers, token support and generally powerful cards like Avacyn or Mikaeus U. Big wipes? Hour of Reckoning and Grave pact. Big draws? Feduncity. Big defense? Sphere of Safety.

I'm putting up a deck list later. It's not a competitive deck, as it shouldn't be to begin with, but a huge pile of favorable board states. 

The decklist!

Cards in the sideboard are cards that are in the physical deck or placeholder cards for when I can get the more expensive fodder, like Gaea's cradle or Academy Rector.


----------



## Xaios

Few suggestions, based on my experience with Ghave. Take or leave as per your playstyle.

- You need a couple more lands. I'd run at least 37 in a tri-colored deck, as well as a Coalition Relic and/or Chromatic Lantern for additional fixing.

- You've got Ashnod's Altar, which is great, but if you've got one, I'd also run Phyrexian Altar. It's got an infinite combo with Doubling Season and Twilight Drover.

- If you find you need more draw, Skullmulcher and Psychotrope Thallid are good options. A random Harmonize never hurts either.

- You've got Mikaeus, the Unhallowed. Now you need the cards that combo with him in order to make your opponents' lives miserable. Throw in Kitchen Finks, Puppeteer Clique, Woodfall Primus, and the final kicker, Triskelion. Juniper Order Ranger and Melira, Sylvok Outcast also work instead of Mikaeus for all but Triskelion.

- Ghave is also the perfect general for Reveillark combos. Throw in Reveillark and Karmic Guide, and then any requisite combo piece, such as Acidic Slime, Teysa, Orzhov Scion or Solemn Simulacrum (which you should be running anyway). If you also throw in Saffi Eriksdotter, you can sac+recur ANY creature. The meanest one in that cast is probably Yosei, the Morning Star.

- You've got Grave Pact. Also throw in Martyr's Bond and Butcher of Malakir.

- Sylvan Library. 'Til death.

- Eldrazi Monument. Not optional in a token deck.  (Although, in fairness, it torpedoes the Sigil Captain combo.)


----------



## Asrial

I can agree on that I might need Chromatic Lantern in the deck, but I might want to playtest the deck a bit more right now.

Nope, no Phyrexian Altar. But cute combo there, will remember. 

I'm actually rarely behind on card advantage in those games I've had with this deck on cockatrice as a matter of fact, and I even used less engines!

Yea, Clique and Primus was on my mind to add, but right now the playgroup is just starting up, and I don't want them to instantly hate on me with omgwtf-combos like that.

And forgot about Solemn. Damn! Need that for sure! But again, developing playgroup, so I will need to go easy at first. Besides, I still want this to be a hardcore token deck and not strictly combo.

Butcher sounds like a plan, since he's easily brought back. 

Sylvan library is a no-go for me. IMO, it's allright when alone, but when I got Necropotence out, it's a dead card, and only allows me to do some deck stacking at best. It's very rare I've used it for the actual bonus card draws.

Monument is also an idea, but yea, got Sigil in the deck right now.


----------



## Xaios

Couple more suggestions:

- Seedborn Muse: This card is ridiculous all around, but it's amazing in a deck like Ghave that always wants to be doing something. Especially good paired with Rhys the Redeemed.

- Elspeth, Knight-Errant: I really think she's more appropriate for this deck than Elspeth Tirel, as Knight-Errant combos with Doubling Season, allowing you to make your non-planeswalker permanents indestructible the same turn she comes down.



Asrial said:


> Sylvan library is a no-go for me. IMO, it's allright when alone, but when I got Necropotence out, it's a dead card, and only allows me to do some deck stacking at best. It's very rare I've used it for the actual bonus card draws.



Fair enough. The reasons I prefer Sylvan Library over Necropotence are a) it comes down earlier, b) it has a much less restrictive mana cost, c) it can sculpt your upcoming draws. Plus, the loss of life can be negated with the Essence Warden and Soul Warden you've got in the deck should pull extra cards with it.


----------



## Asrial

Yea, but the more restrictive cost is fairly easy to pull out once either the Urborg is active or I got some multi-lands. Beyond that, it allows me to fill my hand right back up after throwing it down and swinging.

Seedborn Muse has also been on my thoughts, but I can't really think of a good reason to include her, since I got so few tap-effects beyond land and Rhys. Elspeth is solid, agreed. It was more for the board wipe I wanted her, since it doesn't really hurt me when I can get a Replenish to just whack it all back again. Plus, tokens.


----------



## Xaios

Asrial said:


> Seedborn Muse has also been on my thoughts, but I can't really think of a good reason to include her, since I got so few tap-effects beyond land and Rhys.



Trust me, those are good enough, especially if you've got something like Doubling Season out. Plus, it enables the classic Pentavus defense so that it's always on. "Oh, you're attacking me with a 10/10? I'll remove a counter from Ghave, generate a token, block with the token, then before damage goes through, I'll sac the token and put a counter back on Ghave."

Or better yet. "Oh, you played a creature? I'll just make a token, then sac it to put it back on Ghave, trigger Grave Pact and force you to sac your creature."

Always having mana available for shenanigans in Ghave is _invaluable_, and no one ensures it better than Seedborn Muse.


----------



## Nile

So Hasbro Germany sent a C&A to Cockatrice and they had to shut it down. Bullshit reasoning really. Fuck, thats how I played my Magic. No way am I pouring money into cards on MTGO that don't exist.


----------



## Xaios

Nile said:


> So Hasbro Germany sent a C&A to Cockatrice and they had to shut it down. Bullshit reasoning really. Fuck, thats how I played my Magic. No way am I pouring money into cards on MTGO that don't exist.



Remember though, you can redeem cards on MTGO for real cards if you collect a full set.


----------



## Asrial

It's still something that you have to get an entire set before they redeem the cards, and even then it costs 20$ per redemption.


----------



## WhiteWalls

Online redemption is something that no one actually does because it's clunky and badly planned. If you have a collection of a certain set online, it's way easier to simply sell it and then buy what you want with the monies


----------



## Xaios

Best unintentionally hilarious card. Check flavor text, then the art. Then laugh.


----------



## Asrial

^A bit immature, but lol.


----------



## ittoa666

Still not as funny as sex monkeys.


----------



## Xaios

There was a great article on the official MTG website that took the character "Fblthp" from Totally Lost...






...and spliced him into various other scenes, cause he's so darned cute.

Fblthp : Daily MTG : Magic: The Gathering

At the urging of MTGS, I made some of my own, finally putting my dusty old Photoshop skills to good use once again...





















Hope you guys get a kick out of them.


----------



## Nile

Fblthp is soooo damn cute.


----------



## ittoa666

I loved that card flavor-wise. I laughed when I pulled it at pre-release.


----------



## WhiteWalls

MagicProTour

For those who are interested in competitive play they are streaming GP Verona right now, I didn't go because I don't keep up with standard anymore but many of my friends are there so I hope they will pop up on stream sometime


----------



## Slayer89

Took 3rd at a local Modern event the other piloting this list I brewed the night before. I wanted to play Splinter Twin, but my cards didn't arrive in time so I borrowed and brewed.

4 Arid Mesa
4 Marsh Flats
1 Swamp
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Plains
1 Mountain
3 Sacred Foundry
3 Blood Crypt
3 Godless Shrine
2 Lavaclaw Reaches
Creatures:
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tidehollow Sculler
3 Mirran Crusader
2 Hero of Bladehold
Spells:
2 Dark Tutelage
4 Path to Exile
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
3 Lingering Souls
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Ajani Vengeant

SB
1 Surgical Extraction
3 Rakdos Charm
1 Golgari Charm
1 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Combust
2 Timely Reinforcements
2 Disenchant
3 Avalanche Riders

Originally Ajani would have been Liliana number 3, 2 Crusaders and the Tutelages would have been dark confidants, and the other Crusader would have been another hero. My day went like this.

RG Tron 2-0
UWR Delver 1-2
UWR Midrange 2-1
UW Control 2-1
Goblins 2-0
Affinity 0-2

After the event some thoughts I had were Ajani is actually awesome. Ultimated him twice that day. Deadthrite Shaman IS that good. Lastly, I need to think more and punt less against affinity ...


----------



## ittoa666

That list looks amazingly fun.


----------



## Slayer89

It definitely was. My favorite play of the day was against Tron. I had him down to 5. He had just used Relic of Progenitus to clear out my graveyard. I had a Hero of Bladehold, Tidehollow Sculler, Deathrite Shaman, and 3 untapped duals on board. He had an Oblivion Stone with enough mana available to blow it. I move to combat forcing him to blow the stone. In response I cast a Lignting Helix targeting him, bringing him to 2. Allow that to resolve, then with the Stone's activation still on the stack, activate Shaman and exile the Helix to deal the last 2 damage.

The deck had a ton of play to it and was a blast to play. Now I just need to try to get all the cards I need for it, haha.


----------



## ittoa666

That's awesome.


----------



## Nile

I really like that deck.


----------



## Xaios

My very first alter. Quite shitty if I do say so myself, but I still love it.


----------



## ittoa666

Shai Hulud?


----------



## Slayer89

^^^Sweet Alter Yo. 

New pet peeve: People who sit there and complain as they force me to combo out Splinter Twin on MODO. It's not that hard to concede if you have no way to stop the combo ...


----------



## caskettheclown

I pretty much took a break from magic for a while. Thought I had quit buuuuuut we all know how that goes. What made me take a break from magic is, I was playing standard nonstop for a while trying to build my esper control deck but since most everything I needed was very expensive and 3-4 of I got very tired of it. THEN gatecrash game out and from what I hear its extremely anti control atm. 


SO now i've got the commander bug 
I'm currently building two at the moment.
1 is Oona Queen of the Fae (FTV Foil btw)
the other is 
Gisela Blade of Goldnight (Chinese) , though she will be swapped out at times for Aurelia the Warleader.


I'm trying to build them casual and fun to play with and against since i'll mainly be playing against my girlfriend who isn't very competitive. Strictly casual for her so no land destruction or a deck full of counters/boardwipes though some is ok.

I figured this will keep me from having to spend a metric ton of money to keep up with standard while still playing the game I love.

I do have a question for you guys though. What directions could I take with the Oona deck? Or just single card suggestions? I've seen a lot of people going the mill or infinite combo of some sort. I really don't want to go that route completely. Just fun off the wall cards! If they help everyone playing then thats fine too.

As for the Gisela/Aurelia deck , it will just be an angel themed deck so i'm not to worried about that.


----------



## Xaios

ittoa666 said:


> Shai Hulud?



Indeed. With the text "The Spice Must Flow," could it really be anything else? 



caskettheclown said:


> I do have a question for you guys though. What directions could I take with the Oona deck? Or just single card suggestions? I've seen a lot of people going the mill or infinite combo of some sort. I really don't want to go that route completely. Just fun off the wall cards! If they help everyone playing then thats fine too.



Heh, there is a reason that Oona is popular for infinite combos: she simply enables them really well. If you don't want to go that route, you could go faerie tribal, maybe with a rogue subtheme. They've printed enough faeries in blue and black for it to be feasible, especially in Lorwyn/Shadowmoor block. Faeries make great sword carriers too. Just beware though, if you don't already have one, Vendilion Clique costs about $50, due to the play it sees in Modern. Glen Elendra Archmage and Bitterblossom aren't cheap either. There are some good Goblin rogues from Lorwyn/Shadowmoor with good Prowl abilities as well.

Some good non-creatures would be Dire Undercurrents, Notorious Throng and Knowledge Exploitation.


----------



## caskettheclown

Xaios said:


> Indeed. With the text "The Spice Must Flow," could it really be anything else?
> 
> 
> 
> Heh, there is a reason that Oona is popular for infinite combos: she simply enables them really well. If you don't want to go that route, you could go faerie tribal, maybe with a rogue subtheme. They've printed enough faeries in blue and black for it to be feasible, especially in Lorwyn/Shadowmoor block. Faeries make great sword carriers too. Just beware though, if you don't already have one, Vendilion Clique costs about $50, due to the play it sees in Modern. Glen Elendra Archmage and Bitterblossom aren't cheap either. There are some good Goblin rogues from Lorwyn/Shadowmoor with good Prowl abilities as well.
> 
> Some good non-creatures would be Dire Undercurrents, Notorious Throng and Knowledge Exploitation.




I don't mind spending money on the deck little by little as they are probably going to evolve. Especially since its all a one of and no set rotations or anything. I am looking for the "Big" faerie cards to add in. I love me some faeries.
I just mainly picked up some stuff I know i'll use , mainly cheap staples along with a few things.

Picked up a prerelease promo of Hero of Bladehold
Ink-Eyes Prerelease promo VERY cheap.

ALSO scored a necropotence.... well another one but the other one i've had is foil <3 I love that card so much.


----------



## Asrial

I got mail!

Received my "Counterpunch" EDH deck along with a few common singles, and also just got my letter with an Avacyn, a Grave titan and some other stuff. I just need to test my deck now; hopefully it will be playtested in the easter.


----------



## Slayer89

I got mail today, too. On the day of GP San Diego I saw Team Channel Fireball were busting out Ajani Vengeants, so I hopped online and bought a couple for $3 each (I needed some any). Now they're a little over $8 each since everyone saw how good they are now during the GP. Not a huge potential profit, but something.


----------



## Xaios

I've also got mail. At the post office, there's a package waiting for me which contains:

- foil Skyshroud Claim
- foil Beast Within
- foil Tooth and Nail

That brings the foil count in my Omnath EDH deck up to 83, out of a possible 92 (the other 8 have never been printed as foils).

Alas, the remaining cards are certainly doozies:
- Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
- Greater Good
- Seedborn Muse
- Karn Liberated
- Yavimaya Elder
- Yavimaya Hollow
- Defense of the Heart
- Chord of Calling
- Harmonize

It's interesting to see how much the deck has changed over time. This is what it first looked like (http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/2577164-post155.html made this post July 2011) and this is what it looks like now (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=423468#Decklist). Out of the original 100 cards, 32 have changed since I originally built the deck. That's nearly half the non-basic-land cards.


----------



## ittoa666

My mind can barely fathom how hilarious it would be to G Wave for 39 on turn 4. I would laugh so hard if I saw someone do that.


----------



## Xaios

Haha yeah, I honestly can't remember how I figured out that you could get a Genesis Wave for 39 on turn 4. I *can* tell you how to get it for 35 on turn 4. 

(Both scenarios involve incredibly unikely god-hands, I do know that.)


----------



## Daemoniac

Well a mate bought me a Simic starter deck the other day for my birthday and I managed to pull Enter The Infinite and Giant Adephage from the two boosters in there... Best starter ever


----------



## caskettheclown

enter the infinite seems like a lot of fun to play


----------



## Xaios

A couple weeks ago, a buddy of mine built a deck similar to Omnidoor (ramp + fog into gigantic win condition), except it revolved around playing Omniscience, then Enter the Infinite, and finally throwing down Borborygmos Enraged and pitching all the lands he drew off EtI to deal a whackload of damage.

Just a good thing for him that no one is playing Safe Passage these days.


----------



## Daemoniac

caskettheclown said:


> enter the infinite seems like a lot of fun to play



Omniscience and Enter The Infinite are an amazing (if expensive) pair of cards to have together


----------



## Nile

Daemoniac said:


> Omniscience and Enter The Infinite are an amazing (if expensive) pair of cards to have together



Intuition.


----------



## caskettheclown

So many decks I want to build  Yet so little money to build them with! 

Also just got a white bordered necropotence. Now my count is up to three. I plan on collecting every one that came out in as many languages as I can.

Aside from commander decks i'm working on a Necropotence deck that abuses free artifacts


----------



## Xaios

Well, I bit the bullet. I ordered every last foil I need for my Omnath EDH deck (except Defense of the Heart, which I couldn't find anywhere in foil).

Expensive, but it's gonna be SOOO pretty.


----------



## caskettheclown

Xaios said:


> Well, I bit the bullet. I ordered every last foil I need for my Omnath EDH deck (except Defense of the Heart, which I couldn't find anywhere in foil).
> 
> Expensive, but it's gonna be SOOO pretty.



Post pictures when you get them!

also does the foils have to be in NM or Mint condition for you to buy them? If not they sell a moderately played on on Starcity


----------



## Xaios

caskettheclown said:


> Post pictures when you get them!
> 
> also does the foils have to be in NM or Mint condition for you to buy them? If not they sell a moderately played on on Starcity



SP is good enough, but not MP. I did see that one that you're referring to. Starcity is definitely the site that I visit most, and I did buy a bunch of the foils from them, but the most recent batch I got from TrollAndToad.


----------



## caskettheclown

Xaios said:


> SP is good enough, but not MP. I did see that one that you're referring to. Starcity is definitely the site that I visit most, and I did buy a bunch of the foils from them, but the most recent batch I got from TrollAndToad.




Just look at the foils here, they all say near mint foil. Defense of the Heart - Urza&#39;s Legacy, Magic: the Gathering - Online Gaming Store for Cards, Miniatures, Singles, Packs & Booster Boxes


----------



## Xaios

caskettheclown said:


> Just look at the foils here, they all say near mint foil. Defense of the Heart - Urza's Legacy, Magic: the Gathering - Online Gaming Store for Cards, Miniatures, Singles, Packs & Booster Boxes



Yes, I checked TCGplayer. None of the companies that have one in stock there will ship to me.


----------



## Nile

So then me and a friend split the cost on this huge collection of Urza's Saga. Dude had opened the booster box when it had come out originally and in the end me and him got ~1,000 Urza's Saga cards and four unopened packs for 102.50. Got two MP/SP Land Taxes for like 17.30. Also got a mint Revised Savannah for 52.00.


----------



## Xaios

They came!

One of the nice things about living in a smaller place is that, even though the package was addressed to my home, the UPS guy just delivered it personally to my office instead, as he's an acquaintance of mine. The cards are QUITE lovely. Yavimaya Hollow especially is really aesthetically pleasing as a foil.

Pics to follow.


----------



## Asrial

^Preparing tissues.

But in all seriousness, I've done a few improvements on my current EDH deck, and it's getting its first official run tomorrow! Hopefully, I can also pick up a pack of Sorin vs Tibalt for me and my GF to play with this weekend. This'll be interesting.


----------



## Xaios

Speaking of EDH, we *finally* have a league running again, going on Tuesday nights. I played 2 games on Tuesday, one with Kresh the Bloodbraided and one with Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter. I face-rolled *everyone* I played against. No one else got a single kill at the games I was playing in, and those aren't even my crazy deck.


----------



## Brill

Got back into mahic recnetly. Got 15 GC booster.#
Was i just lucky or did everyone seem to get 1/4 of the rares as shocl lands?


----------



## Xaios

READY TISSUES!

AIM!

FIRE!!!

First, the non-foils:







Now...



ZE FOILS!


----------



## ittoa666

Fuck


----------



## Slayer89




----------



## Asrial

Holy sweet mother of god. Foil Cradle?! But damn, that's a lot of siiiick foils.


----------



## caskettheclown

I think you win this thread for now ! Those are all beautiful!


----------



## ghostred7

I'm just getting back into it and my kids are just now getting into it for the 1st time. I had to steer them away from the Yu-Gi-Oh cards.


----------



## Xaios

ghostred7 said:


> I'm just getting back into it and my kids are just now getting into it for the 1st time. I had to steer them away from the Yu-Gi-Oh cards.



Good call. In the TCG world, Yugioh is the ex-con who's likely to re-offend.

In seriousness though, I do have a couple friends that used to play tournament Yugioh, and they certainly don't hold a high opinion of it. Apparently cheating is *far* worse than it is in MTG. One example he gave was that a lot of players try to get away with "playing intuitively." In Magic, we know that you can't just discard cards whenever you want under the pretense that "will now I can't play it!" You have to meet some condition that allows you to discard. But that's exactly the kind of thing a lot of Yugioh players apparently try to pull on a regular basis. If I discard a Griselbrand under the pretense that "well now I can't play it, so I'm helping you," you know damn well that I'm holding a reanimation spell that will allow me to play it for cheaper than it would be to cast it.


----------



## ittoa666

Just scored 2 Forces off of a 90 dollar trade.


----------



## Xaios

Scored a foil Deadeye Navigator in a trade tonight. Now the whole realm of EDH players will learn to hate me.


----------



## Slayer89

After spending a few days tweaking and testing my list I hit up FNM. Last time I went 3-0-1 and was hoping for the same. Went 0-2 drop after some very depressing mulligans. Yay variance, lol.

I did pick up 2 Thragtusk for $15, though. I was okay with that.


----------



## ittoa666

Xaios said:


> Scored a foil Deadeye Navigator in a trade tonight. Now the whole realm of EDH players will learn to hate me.



Already doing that at my store.  They give up when I'm taking infinite turns.


----------



## ittoa666

Think I'm gonna step away from standard after the next prerelease and focus on the older formats. It's just so much more fun to play that way.


----------



## Slayer89

I always tell myself that, but there's just so much more support for Standard as far as competitive play goes that it's hard to justify focusing elsewhere (at least in my area anyway). I do need to get a good Modern deck together. Luckily I'm basically done with 2 good Standard decks, so I don't need to focus much there.


----------



## ittoa666

Yeah. It's kind of annoying that the focus is so on standard, but I see where they're coming from on that. People don't just start playing and jump into modern head first. There's been a lot of talk about my local store starting modern tourneys, but who knows when that'll happen.


----------



## Nile

I actually quite hate Standard now. Makes card prices whack and when you finally do have the good deck you want for a grip of cash it all goes out the window because it either rotates or the meta shifts because of a new set dropping.


----------



## Francis978

Yeah I know what you mean ^

And also, for me it seems, I never notice when new packs come out, I stop collecting for a few months, all of a sudden 3 new packs come out o.o


----------



## WhiteWalls

Nile said:


> I actually quite hate Standard now. Makes card prices whack and when you finally do have the good deck you want for a grip of cash it all goes out the window because it either rotates or the meta shifts because of a new set dropping.


It has always been like that to some extent, but in the past when magic online was less popular the meta shifts were a lot slower, now every week there's a new "best deck" and you have to make some changes to your deck (or even change deck altogether) to have the best chance.

Things become much easier if you are in a group of players who, combined, have almost all of the cards in standard, so you can borrow/lend cards and keep up with the shifting metagame. That's the only way I've been able able to play magic competitively a few years ago


----------



## ittoa666

I'm sick of the way standard changes every time I turn my back. I get a good deck and it's out the window to whatever flavor-of-the-week thing is rotating on the netdeck circles, and don't even get me started on netdecking.


----------



## Slayer89

Honestly, I do actually like Standard right now. A decent amount of options compared to some recent times.

I usually just pick a deck and ride it out, adapting it to the format as it changes. Right now I'm playing Esper Control and have been since November. Basically 4 Sphinx's Revelation, 4 Supreme Verdict, 4 Azorius Charm, and then whatever the metagame calls for, haha. That said, I almost have Junk Rites built for when I feel like just playing easy Magic lol.


----------



## caskettheclown

Slayer89 said:


> Honestly, I do actually like Standard right now. A decent amount of options compared to some recent times.
> 
> I usually just pick a deck and ride it out, adapting it to the format as it changes. Right now I'm playing Esper Control and have been since November. Basically 4 Sphinx's Revelation, 4 Supreme Verdict, 4 Azorius Charm, and then whatever the metagame calls for, haha. That said, I almost have Junk Rites built for when I feel like just playing easy Magic lol.



I had Esper control built for standard, I adapted it into a sphere of safety deck just to throw everyone off one week. Then went back to straight control. I miss that deck a good bit actually.


----------



## Xaios

DRAGON'S MAZE SPOILERS ARE BEGIN!!!



























Fuse is a super-cool mechanic, turning the split cards into SUPER split cards!


----------



## caskettheclown

New Planeswalker looks pretty fun.

The fuse mechanic could be awesome!

Render Silent though, OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG. I am excited about that.


----------



## DrMachino

Foil Jace the Mind Sculptor is up to $699.99


----------



## Asrial

Beck is pretty much Glimpse of Nature, with a stapled on shite card. I mean come on, 6 mana in two colors for 4 1/1 fliers? Even Spectral Prosession did offer 3 for 3 to 6 mana, with color flex! Not to mention Lingering Souls...
Beck // Call would've been absolutely spot on if they'd just lowered Calls cost by 1 or even 2 at the price of one less bird. 6 mana in 3 colors -> 3 birds and 3 cards. Sacrificing the lifegain over beaters, and we got a new, less flexy Sphinx's revelation.


----------



## Nile

All you need to do is splash blue in a mono elves deck and Beck is another, less spendier money wise, Glimpse of Nature.

I like it alot. But fuck the card that it is attached to.


----------



## ittoa666

Well, render silent is going to go up fast.


----------



## Slayer89

Maybe a bit, but I can't see Render Silent hitting a very high price. At least 4/5 times it will simply be a cost restricted Cancel. Sure there are going to be situations where it will be a blowout, but the same can be said for Counterflux (which I think is better in it's situations being uncounterable) and that's less than a buck right now. Now I'm not saying it's not good (I'm testing them out now), but I wouldn't advise investing in them expecting a decent profit.

Feel free to quote this later if I turn out to be completely wrong. It's happened before, haha.


----------



## Nile

Since they banned Bloodbraid Elf, the 4-drop haste, first strike, unleash (Exava) seems to be a pretty good aggro creature if you'd want to forgo Huntmaster of the Fells.


----------



## ittoa666

Slayer89 said:


> Feel free to quote this later if I turn out to be completely wrong. It's happened before, haha.



Noted


----------



## Xaios

Slayer89 said:


> Feel free to quote this later if I turn out to be completely wrong. It's happened before, haha.



Me too. In this very thread, I once said that they wouldn't print enemy-colored checkland in Innistrad.


----------



## Asrial

Based on the latest few spoilers, I've been trying to come up with a jund-deck who builds around 2 of the guild champions, fetching and disruption. 

30 creatures
2x Slitherhead
4x Rakdos Cackler
2x Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch
2x Varolz, the Scar-Striped
3x Ghor-clan Rampager
2x Lotleth Troll
4x Vexing Devil
4x Burning-tree emissary
3x Dawntreader Elk
4x Blood Scrivener

The plan with these critters are to either use or dispose of them ASAP, and then get Exava and Varolz out to bring the beats.
The reasoning behind Slitherhead will become obvious in a bit, while Dawntreader is easy mana-fixing that fuels the grave in the same go. Blood Scrivener is another effective beat that just got revealed; who said Dark Confidant in standard? And Lotleth? Because I got some, that's why. :>

8 spells
3x Jarads Orders
3x Putrefy
2x Mizzium Mortars

Now for the spells, and why I use Slitherheads! Jarads orders! It allows me to fetch the champions in case they don't show up, along with putting a cheap scavenge-target in the grave, like Slitherhead. Putrefy is a lovely removal-spell that just got spoiled as reprinted, which doesn't need much intro. Mizzium Mortars doesn't need much intro either, other than it cleans the board nicely.

22 lands

Initial color-count
22 black - 22 green - 19 red
So the manabase needs a tiny bit less red than anything else.
4x Overgrown Tomb
4x Stomping Ground
4x Blood Crypt
2x Woodland Cemetery
1x Rootbound Crag
1x Dragonskull summit
2x Swamp
2x Forest
2x Mountain

A good amount of dual-lands for a tri-colored deck, but not without a fair share of basics to allow the Dawntreader elk to actually do something.

Sideboard
4x Golgari charm
3x Flesh//Blood
2x Mizzium Mortars
3x Farseek
3x Whateverwhateverwhatever

Gameplan
This deck is aggro-oriented, which shouldn't come as a huge shock. General gameplan is to lob down as many creatures as possible, fetch or cast one or both of the champions and go straight to town. There isn't a lot of protection in this deck, mostly because you actually want some critters in the grave too. First game should just be a surprise-attack, where you go all-in on your opponent. If you face a controlling player (AKA Supreme Verdict) without your opponent using any artifacts (Pithing needle), side in the golgari-charm, as continuous board-wipe is still a very bad thing, even for this deck. Flesh//Blood is more to get rid of eventual reanimate targets, but more often than not it's going to be the burn you're gonna use. Please send picture-proof if you manage to land it on a Griselbrand and smack your opponent silly in the process. 
Farseek, in case you don't get enough lands, and Mortars if you face a mirror-match of low-toughness critters in bulk. 3 open slots for meta-adjustments.


----------



## Slayer89

Looks fun. I can never bring myself to brew before the whole set's out. Too much hope for other things, haha.

Went 3-1 at FNM tonight with Esper Control. Not perfect, but 6 packs is fine with me considering I only paid $6 to enter.

Also, pretty excited for a friend who won the West Coast World Magic Cup Qualifier. To think, someone from our shop that I've FNM'd with countless times is going to represent the US at the World Magic Cup. Crazy stuff.


----------



## caskettheclown

Anyone play Pauper at all?

I built a turbofog deck with used sleeves and a used box for right around 6 US dollars.

I played it in multiplayer and won multiple times. My girlfriend played her commander deck as thats all she had with her, my friend play an Auras deck. Mine being the only pauper deck.

It was lulzy as hell. I plan on going to the pauper tournament next week and from what I hear, its almost all aggro/midrange type stuff. So I plan on going to time....EVERYTIME!


----------



## Slayer89

I play UB Post in Pauper. Super fun stuff. Here's my list.

4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Dimir Guildgate
7 Island
7 Swamp

2 Preordain
1 Capsize
1 Exhume
3 Mystical Teachings
2 Forbidden Alchemy
2 Doom Blade
1 Archaeomancer
1 Ghostly Flicker
1 Agony Warp
2 Mulldrifter
2 Condescend
2 Counterspell
3 Expedition Map
2 Ulamog's Crusher
2 Prophetic Prism
2 Dimir Signet
1 Diabolic Edict
2 Mana Leak
2 Compulsive Research


The Guildgates might be better as Dimir Aqueducts ... not sure.


----------



## Nile

Slayer89 said:


> Also, pretty excited for a friend who won the West Coast World Magic Cup Qualifier. To think, someone from our shop that I've FNM'd with countless times is going to represent the US at the World Magic Cup. Crazy stuff.



Who is it?


----------



## Slayer89

His name is Jason Gulevich. He should have an article about it going up on ChannelFireball soon.


----------



## caskettheclown

Slayer89 said:


> I play UB Post in Pauper. Super fun stuff. Here's my list.
> 
> 4 Cloudpost
> 4 Glimmerpost
> 4 Dimir Guildgate
> 7 Island
> 7 Swamp
> 
> 2 Preordain
> 1 Capsize
> 1 Exhume
> 3 Mystical Teachings
> 2 Forbidden Alchemy
> 2 Doom Blade
> 1 Archaeomancer
> 1 Ghostly Flicker
> 1 Agony Warp
> 2 Mulldrifter
> 2 Condescend
> 2 Counterspell
> 3 Expedition Map
> 2 Ulamog's Crusher
> 2 Prophetic Prism
> 2 Dimir Signet
> 1 Diabolic Edict
> 2 Mana Leak
> 2 Compulsive Research
> 
> 
> The Guildgates might be better as Dimir Aqueducts ... not sure.



I've heard this deck has a learning curve attached to it but it looks like a lot of fun. How competitive is it? (Sorry i'm new to pauper)


----------



## Slayer89

It's got a bit of a learning curve, but practice makes perfect (or so they say ...). It's pretty competitive. The thing about UR or UB Post is once it gets to the late game it's REALLY hard to lose. Like you have to draw straight bricks. The UR build is more popular, but I prefer the UB for the better removal. The UR can splash it pretty well, though. Maybe I'm a bit biased, though ...


----------



## caskettheclown

Is it safe to assume thats a real tattoo? Or a fake tattoo? Either way its cool


----------



## Slayer89

Blurry pic, but it's real.


----------



## Slayer89

This. Lots of this.


----------



## caskettheclown

^ I could see that being annoying as hell to play against rofl


Came in third place in the pauper tournament, girlfriend came in fifth.

I played my turbofog deck, I lost only to an infect deck. I feel I should have had a good chance against him but my deck just kind of crapped on me.

Girlfriend played a monoblack discard control deck which we built in 30 minutes, though to be fair i've played discard control a lot.

Most everyone was playing green of some sort, mostly infect though. I did see a convoke deck that was just nuts to play against.


----------



## ittoa666

If that was lower costed, I'd play it in every deck ever.


----------



## ShadowFactoryX

so far in dragon's maze, seems they put more power back into WU

but no hybrids? keep your shite split cards, i would rather have had some more hybrids


----------



## ittoa666

I'm just really underwhelmed by this new set. The only things that seem cool are the reprint of putrefy and the mythic clone that keeps making guys. Other than that, I couldn't be less interested. Maybe the prerelease will change my mind, but I strongly doubt it. 

This block started off so strong. What happened to R&D after they made RtR? That set was phenomenal.


----------



## Xaios

I do hope they also reprint Mortify, and it's still a possibility based on the card numbers revealed so far, right between Mirko Vosk and Nivix Cyclops. That could give Junk a really, *really* strong removal suite.


----------



## ittoa666

I'd be alright with Mortify.


----------



## caskettheclown

The new Selesnya Legendary creature looks like it will be a fun commander.

Aside from a few cards i'm a little underwhelmed as well.


----------



## Slayer89

I don't know. Considering it's a small set there seems to definitely be a solid number of playables. I'm usually the one hating every set when they're first spoiled, but some of this stuff looks pretty cool.


----------



## ittoa666

So, I played a variant of fight club at fnm tonight. Didn't do too well, but I had a lot of fun. Now to work on the board and see what I can get out of a few utility spells.


----------



## caskettheclown

ittoa666 said:


> So, I played a variant of fight club at fnm tonight. Didn't do too well, but I had a lot of fun. Now to work on the board and see what I can get out of a few utility spells.




Variant of fight club? what kind of deck is fight cub?


----------



## Slayer89

I've been testing a UB Delver-less Delver type build Gerry Thompson posted a while back and it seems pretty fun. I miss playing good tempo decks.


----------



## Asrial

caskettheclown said:


> The new Selesnya Legendary creature looks like it will be a fun commander.



lolwut?
Emmara is seriously the worst designed card in the entire friggin' set! She's a huge-ass elf that costs a billion and doesn't even *DO* anything. In those colors, we got Rhys as a much better commander, and when you add another color; Ghave, Hazezon and Rith.

Also, small FNM report:
I drafted Orzhov, won massively... But so did 4 other people, so I landed at 5th place. 3rd game was against a pubescent kid who could hardly talk straight and with a massive ego problem. It didn't help I drew like shit either. 
Though, I did get my hands on a Luminarch Ascension, a Serra's sanctum (NM), a Woodland cemetery, a Mentor of the meek and a Legion loyalist for rather cheap.


----------



## ittoa666

caskettheclown said:


> Variant of fight club? what kind of deck is fight cub?



It's a mono green deck that focuses on undying and "fight" mechanics like Prey Upon and Ulvenwald Tracker to ping your opponents creatures. Your main goal is to get Predator Ooze out and start growing it to something huge and swing in. My personal deck uses fogs, craterhoofs, and somberwald sages to go nuts. Give it a try sometime. It's pretty cheap, too.


----------



## caskettheclown

ittoa666 said:


> It's a mono green deck that focuses on undying and "fight" mechanics like Prey Upon and Ulvenwald Tracker to ping your opponents creatures. Your main goal is to get Predator Ooze out and start growing it to something huge and swing in. My personal deck uses fogs, craterhoofs, and somberwald sages to go nuts. Give it a try sometime. It's pretty cheap, too.



Ahhh, i've seen decks like that but just never knew what it was called.


EDIT- Just got a FOIL Gisela Blade of Goldnight!!!!


----------



## Slayer89

So, the whole set's spoiled and it looks like it'll be fun. I know I'm going to a midnight prerelease and my wife decided she wants to preorder me a box, so I should get my fill of the set pretty quick, haha.


----------



## ittoa666

Pulled a foil Progenitor Mimic from my first Dragon's Maze pack at the midnight prerelease. Needless to say, I'm happy as hell cause that's exactly what wanted.

Brb, ruining edh with sylvan primordial and that card.


----------



## caskettheclown

Built a sac land tendrils deck, Its so much fun. All i'm missing is 4 manamorphose but they are in the mail right now so i'll have them soon. Got a couple of Doomsday really cheap so i'll try that out in the deck to see if I like it.

Only thing is, it takes me a few minutes to combo off . Figuring out what I need to do next and all that. Turn three is when I go off usually, though sometimes 2 as well.


OH and I got an Akroma Angel of Wrath Duel Decks version (the really pretty foil one) for less than twenty bucks.


----------



## Xaios

I wasn't able to attend the pre-release event at my LGS yesterday, but I watched most of it. I actually got to see someone steal a shit-ton of card draw by flashing in a Notion Thief in response to a Sphinx's Revelation. It was LEGIT.

Going to the other 2 pre-release events today though.


----------



## Asrial

I got a 4th place out of 42 participants.

I chose to play Dimir, and was assigned Azorius as my secret ally. Pulls? Oh, just a Stolen Identity, a Mirko Vosk, a Palisade Giant... And a foil Render Silent. Esper control? Yup. Some nut also traded me his Varolz for an Otherworld atlas, along with someone else trading a Harvester of souls+Stolen identity for an Ajani. And another jank rare for Grave pact.

Good game.


----------



## Slayer89

Ended up not making a prerelease. One guy I was gonna go with couldn't make it and the other bailed at the last second, so I stayed home and worked on Block decks. Seems to be an okay format.


----------



## Choop

caskettheclown said:


> Anyone play Pauper at all?



My friend kind of recently introduced me into pauper play, it's really great! We all went to the local comic shop and built decks with a 20 min. time limit to play against each other. I did a mono-white soldier-themed one, but the selection of commons wasn't super great. If I were serious I'd just order some or something, but it was way fun for getting a deck for $3. Limitations like that kinda make it interesting in an entirely new way, it's really cool. I used to play heroclix, and we would do like, all rookie games sometimes and it was pretty much the same idea.


----------



## Xaios

I did okay at the prereleases, not amazing but certainly not bad either. Didn't pull anything particularly remarkable though, from tournament packs or prize packs.

Not really sure how I feel about the new set as of yet. I'll reserve judgment.


----------



## Slayer89

Today was a great Magic day for me. First, I went down and picked up a box of Dragon's Maze (a gift from my wife). Cracked the packs and pulled some sweet stuff. Later I went to FNM and played Standard. It was a 47 player event and I managed to go 4-0 with Junk Rites getting 1st place; good for a promo Judge's Familiar and 12 more packs of Dragon's Maze.

Overall, after looking at the set and seeing some of it in action, I feel the set is great as a support set. I feel it contributes a ton of subtle additions without really breaking or killing anything.


----------



## mniel8195

does anyone play duels on pc?


----------



## Slayer89

mniel8195 said:


> does anyone play duels on pc?



Used to play on PS3, but that's about it.

States is on Saturday and I still don't know what to play. Esper Control or Junk Rites ... meh. /firstworldmagicproblems


----------



## ittoa666

I'd say Junk, but I bet thats gonna be a huge bit of the players there, along with the Bant decks floating around. Control may be just the right balance to knock both decks off a bit.


----------



## Xaios

I'm taking a bit of a break. Dragon's Maze didn't really impress me all that much. Combine that with the sheer volume of Magic I've been playing lately (3 nights a week), and I'm burnt out.


----------



## ittoa666

I'm just taking a break from standard to focus on EDH and Modern.


----------



## cGoEcYk

I am surprised MTG is still going on. I played back in the days of Revised. I bought some cards for cheap off of ebay a few years ago but my girlfriend wasnt really interested in playing with me.


----------



## Xaios

cGoEcYk said:


> I am surprised MTG is still going on. I played back in the days of Revised. I bought some cards for cheap off of ebay a few years ago but my girlfriend wasnt really interested in playing with me.



Indeed, Magic is more popular now than it's ever been.


----------



## WhiteWalls

MagicProTour

Pro Tour Dragon's Maze on stream


----------



## caskettheclown

I'm one foil swamp away from foiling out my basic lands in my Oona commander deck.

ONE SWAMP. OMFG OCD


----------



## Asrial

Go get an Unhinged foil swamp then.


----------



## ittoa666

60 bucks? Forget that.


----------



## devolutionary

SliverSliverSliverSliverSliverSliverSliver...

*bounces around happily* yeah, sorry, still buzzing a few weeks on from first announcement.


----------



## ghostred7

A friend of mine came to crash for a couple of days, didn't even know he played, and all of a sudden out comes his '96-98ish (can't remember) Ice Age deck. I **LOVED** Ice Age. I wish I still had mine.

We're just now getting back into it. Went & bought 4 of those deckbuilder sets for us (myself, wife, kids) to play. Not hardcore/tourney/etc but good for a rainy day family activity.


----------



## Asrial

devolutionary said:


> SliverSliverSliverSliverSliverSliverSliver...
> 
> *bounces around happily* yeah, sorry, still buzzing a few weeks on from first announcement.



Yeeeeaaaahno. That's not Slivers, that's allies. 
The dev team really botched that one up majorly. And for what reasoning? Easier boardstates? More beginner friendly? What the-
I can get the idea that the slivers are evolving past what happened in Time Spiral, and that they're now a bit more predator-like. That's acceptable. But slivers as a whole was about the hivemind gameplay, that one became all. How hard is it to get "All slivers have xxx"? Not that tough of a wording to figure out, and nor is boardstates.

I would've personally wanted the slivers to be in Theros instead, so we could've skipped the ally-transform and kept the slivers as what they once were.


----------



## ittoa666

Slivers coming back makes me happy to have basically dropped from standard.


----------



## vilk

I always thought it'd be funny to enter a tournament and kick everyone's butt and then when you're playing the championship game and you get down to your final creatures you squint your eyes and with a very serious demeanor slap down a holographic Charizard.


----------



## caskettheclown

baron samedi said:


> I always thought it'd be funny to enter a tournament and kick everyone's butt and then when you're playing the championship game and you get down to your final creatures you squint your eyes and with a very serious demeanor slap down a holographic Charizard.




Well he TECHNICALLY isn't banned so someone should do it!


----------



## Nile

So Modern Masters has turned to shit and will turn to even more shit as they announce more stuff. The announcement of Dark Confidant made the preorder of a pack rise to 15 dollars and a box to around 300. This has quickly become a From the Vault with these prices.

Was going to buy quite a few packs, but at this point even, .... that.


----------



## ittoa666

They really shouldn't have announced anything from it. For fukks sake, we all knew it Confidant would be in the set.


----------



## Eclipse

Hi, I like Rakdos.


----------



## caskettheclown

Rakdo's is fun!

So on a whim I decided to build an izzet token control deck and play in standard tonight. I didn't have all the cards either so I had to make due with what I had

I was SO close to winning every round. 

Made a few trades and bought a few little things and I think i have a decent chance of doing well next week.

3 games I had a crowd around me cause I was going up against some of the best players and we where about to go to time. I had a lot of fun so I think i'll keep playing standard for a little while.


----------



## Nile

Reprint ALL the ....ing good shit.


----------



## Slayer89

Modern Masters looks sweet. The fact that it's going for double MSRP sucks, but it makes sense.


----------



## caskettheclown

My LGS is doing a Modern Masters draft friday at midnight. CANNOT WAIT! I'm drafting and so is my girlfriend (I'm paying for it so i'll get first pick of her cards I want to keep after the draft).


----------



## Slayer89

After testing block a ton, I have to say I'm really excited for next standard. Block has so many options so when Theros first comes out the Standard format should be sweet.


----------



## ittoa666

So....putting together a Gwafa Hazid EDH. Time to frustrate people.


----------



## devolutionary

MM on MTGO - ....ing disgustingly overpriced. Such a shame, I was looking forward to it and everything.


----------



## ittoa666

I'm pretty damn disappointed about MM. It looked so sweet, and I was going to get a box, but thankfully, they decided to spoil every good thing in it, and now normal people like me who aren't rolling in cash can't afford it. It's total bulshit. Too bad they're printing in such a limited run, too, cause that makes it even worse. I had a discussion with my local store owner and he said that Wizards made a bad decision by doing it as one print. I agree.


----------



## Slayer89

Of course it was going to be spoiled, it's a set that's going to be used for competitive Limited play. You can't blame Wizards for that. It's not completely unjustified to get mad at StarCityGames for intentionally driving up the price on it, though. I mean, Wizards set the MSRP at 6.99 a pack. Then once things started getting spoiled SCG went on ebay and bought every box selling for less than $250 and put their price at $300. You can't blame Wizards for the secondary market charging double the MSRP they set.


----------



## Slayer89

But the MTGO price on it is ridiculous considering it's non-redeemable.


----------



## Asrial

There are so many money-cards in that set it's stupid. I mean, Path to Exile? That alone almost pays for the booster itself if you draw that, and that's at uncommon! And most of the rares are just value reprinted.

It sucks that street price is nearing MSRPx2 tho. But hey, value?


----------



## Slayer89

My local shop is having an Invitational series of 4 standard tournaments over 2 months where Top 2 from each qualifies for a MM draft and the winner gets a box. I'm definitely gonna try to make a couple.

Well, hopefully only one will be necessary lol


----------



## ittoa666

And the worst thing about the MM price drive-up is that all of my local guys have to compete so closely with SCG since they're basically local to us. It's bad. 

Thankfully my shop's going to have drafts for the base price, so I lucked out a bit.


----------



## Nile

That's the problem with this limited shit, ass ....s like SCG buy them all and sell them for retarded prices. Ya, you make a few bucks more but your being a complete dick.


----------



## caskettheclown

Nile said:


> That's the problem with this limited shit, ass ....s like SCG buy them all and sell them for retarded prices. Ya, you make a few bucks more but your being a complete dick.



Wasn't wizards going to do something about them doing that or am I thinking of something else?


----------



## Slayer89

There's really nothing Wizards could do. They're free to buy whatever they have the money for, and then free to sell their property for whatever people will pay for it. It sucks, but it makes sense. Easy money is easy money.


----------



## Slayer89

Just preregistered for one of 3 Modern Masters drafts my local shop is doing on the 9th. $35 for entry and a pack of sleeves. Not bad considering single packs are going for $13ish online. Now to win and get another 8 packs ... haha.


----------



## ittoa666

Nice. My stores holding it for $30. I'm stoked to pull some killer shit. It's gonna be fun as hell drafting all this insanity.


----------



## Slayer89

should be a fun weekend. PTQ Saturday and MM Draft Sunday.


----------



## caskettheclown

my store is doing it for 25


----------



## ittoa666

Nice.


----------



## Xaios

$30 draft at my store too. Figure I'll go to that one, even though I've been more or less taking a break.


----------



## ittoa666

I can't wait for it. Anybody gonna try drafting dragonstorm?


----------



## Asrial

Allright, tonight's release! Who's going to draft/already drafted MDM? And what did you pull?

I'm hoping I can run either RUG storm or Grixis goblins tonight, and hoping for the love of god I'm pulling a Doubling season!


----------



## caskettheclown

Paid for my girlfriend and I to draft. On the condition that I get first pick of her money cards afterwards.

IN TOTAL we pulled

Vendilion Clique
Doubling season
Sword of Fire and Ice
Knight of the Reliquary
Rift Bolt
Lava spike
Path to Exile
Chalice of the Void
Demigod of Revenge
Adarkar Valkrie
FOIL Grapeshot (Straight into my Sac Land Tendrils deck!)
I gave her Adarkar Valkrie, PTE and Sword of Fire and Ice cause thats all she wanted from the money cards.
We had about 30 people drafting, no one got a Tarmogoyf but one guy got a Dark Confidant though.

Someone pulled a FOIL Vendilion Clique though, OMG.

All in all I think I made my money's worth on this draft. <3


----------



## ittoa666

All I can say is that that had to be one of the best drafts I've played. Ended up Simic with a lot of suspend fatties and some bounce and counter. I have to say the imperiosaur is crazy good.

So much fun was had.


----------



## Xaios

My draft isn't until this coming Sunday, I'll report if I get anything awesome.


----------



## ittoa666

Drafted MM again tonight. Went 1-2 playing 5 color Progenitus (pulled first on pack 3 ). Had even more fun this time around.


----------



## Asrial

Our draft was allright.

My neighbor just re-confirmed everybody about how lucky of a shit he is. He pulled Elspeth and Doubling season in the draft, bought a booster afterwards and pulled Tarmogoyf. What the stonking .....

I traded my 2 Deathrite shamans for his Doubling season (so he could start a Jund deck, and I got DS for my EDH deck), and pulled an Adarkar Valkyrie in my draft (yeah, wasn't rare-drafting here...), and got Æther Vial, Auriok Salvagers, Path to Exile and a Progenitus in the 3 packs i bought afterwards. Plus I got some Grapeshots, Manamorphosi and some other funk to my Storm deck. Only 1 EtW though.


----------



## Discoqueen

Hey, yall! Totle n00b here! I just played for the first time last night with my friend and I'm like all about this kinda stuff... the 'lore' and the rules and the strategy and the suspense and what not (and the artwork...) so I think I am going to start playing like on Fridays with her and a bunch of people. She is going to let me use a spare deck of hers and she said something about a zombie deck or whatevs but... I kinda want to get my own stuff, too. 
I've read around and amazon has to good prices but I'm wondering what I should buy to start out. Here are a couple options... I was wondering if you guys had some insight you wouldn't mind sharing! 
1) Mtg: Deck Builder's M13 2013 Core set toolkit
It comes with '...125 semi-random cards and four 15-card booster packs...' then 100 basic land cards and then a little book for learning deck building and such. 
2) Mtg: M13 2013 Core Set Booster Box 36 packs
From what I understand you guys all know what this is... 

Now I don't really know if it'd be dumb just to get that starter thing or if I should be considering both? Would I just get a bunch of repeats because the sets promise like a crap ton of cards? 
I really like playing with the like elves or swamps thingymadoodles and I definately like a lot of creatures from what I could tell with playing a few different kinds of decks my friend had with her. Sorry to 'spam' or whatever hope you guys can help! 

EDIT: Also, where would a good place/source be for like reals and terminology be?


----------



## Asrial

To be honest with you, start with a pre-constructed deck and go from there. Buy boosters from the last 3 expansions (Return to Ravnica, Gatecrash and Dragon's Maze), as those will last a decent amount of time. About the land thing, talk to your local game shop (LGS for short), they can hook you up for a fair price.

If possible, wait a month. The next core-set (containing simpler cards) is releasing soon, where you can get some decent feel for what Magic is about at a lower level.


----------



## Xaios

Drafted, but didn't stay for the whole thing because my deck ended up being terrible.  Didn't get any money cards either. Another guy at my table pulled a foil Dark Confidant. Lucky bastard...


----------



## Slayer89

Had some bad beats and went 4-4 in the PTQ yesterday. Considered dropping after picking up my second loss, but decided to grind out some planeswalker points. Didn't accomplish much, haha. Was held in a cement warehouse with no AC and it was 100+ degrees. Woo...hoo...

Drafted MM today and put together a pretty sweet rb goblins deck but got knocked out in round 1. Only notable rare was an Engineered Explosives. 

I guess a weekend of shitty magic is better than a weekend of no magic, haha.


----------



## caskettheclown

best way to get into magic kind of depends on your budget, because this game is EXPENSIVE.

First I would find some friends who play and borrow decks for casual play until you get a grip on the game.

For casual play I would buy the deck builders toolkit, it will have a ton of stuff and get you some land as well as a few boosters/draft

If you want to play in tournaments, I would draft as it will net you a good bit of cards as well as let you play against people on a level playing field. You won't be going up against people with a broken 500 dollar deck. It'll only be what people pull from the packs.


----------



## Nile

IMO, don't buy M13. Not worth it whatsoever. I'd highly suggest buying the three newest sets.


----------



## Discoqueen

Thanks for the tips guys, I think I'm going to buy a pre-made deck and one of the booster fat packs!


_Posted from Sevenstring.org App for Android_


----------



## Xaios

Nile said:


> IMO, don't buy M13. Not worth it whatsoever. I'd highly suggest buying the three newest sets.



Agreed, but that's only because it rotates soon. M13 did have some pretty monstrous creatures after all, such as Sublime Archangel, Thundermaw Hellkite, and the poster child for "I want to make my opponents start cutting themselves," Thragtusk.


----------



## ittoa666

New list.

UW Control (Commander / EDH MTG Deck)


----------



## caskettheclown

I imagine that general would be kind of dumb in 1v1 rofl.

though not as dumb as olivia voldaren late game.

LOLZ IMA TAKE YOUR BEST CREATURE AND BEAT YOU DEATH WITH IT!


----------



## Xaios

ittoa666 said:


> New list.
> 
> UW Control (Commander / EDH MTG Deck)



Some suggestions:

- I think your curve is a bit on the high side, I'd probably cut down on the 6 drops a bit.
- You don't really have the artifacts to take advantage of Master Transmuter. That spot would be better given to something else.
- Ronom Unicorn's spot would be better spent on something that'll give you additional value, such as Allay or Dismantling Blow.
- The only board wipe you've got that gets past regeneration is Terminus. I'd suggest Wrath of God, Rout, Hallowed Burial or All Is Dust.
- Phyrexian Unlife is meh.
- Counterspell > Cancel
- Soft counters like Mana Leak are often useless in EDH.
- You NEED more land. 31 is a recipe for disaster, especially with that curve.


----------



## ittoa666

I've already started either changing that stuff. After a few games I noticed that the curve was a bit high. Lands isn't really an issue (to my surprise), and my commander holds aggro off while I draw very well. Unlife will probably come out, but for now it's a troll card.

It's all about the experimentation when I play EDH since we never play "seriously". Also, the only reason I play Ronom Unicorn is because it's holo and it throws people off.


----------



## Nile

Needs more Shahrazad.

It's legal.


----------



## ittoa666




----------



## Asrial

Nile said:


> Needs more Shahrazad.



You morbid... D:

But yeah, curve is really high. You got a really high margin of counterspells to boot too. Get some more tutor-effects IMO.


----------



## ittoa666

Btw, the deck was made off of what I had on hand for fun.


----------



## Xaios

If I ever see Shahrazad get played in my game, I'm jumping the table to beat the caster senseless with a card binder.


----------



## Nile

Also cast as many copy effects as you can on it or a Snapcaster on it. Or play 60 card and play another copy when your playing the under the table game from the first one.


----------



## Xaios

I have a friend... .... him, SO much.

Draft tonight. He wasn't at the Modern Masters draft on Sunday. In between rounds tonight, he buys one... *ONE* pack of Modern Masters.

What does he open?

....ing Tarmogoyf and foil Cryptic Command.

.... HIM.


----------



## caskettheclown

My girlfriend gets lucky like that ...way to damn much.


----------



## Asrial

Currently working on a cube!
The cube is meant to be a multicolored draft experience, but can be drafted as tribal as well. There's support for heavy multicolor in the shape of guildgates, cluestones, keyrunes along with a ton of multicolored cards. Most of the cards will work in a monocolored setting though, and playing monocolored rewards you with a tribal arcetype.
I'm trying to keep it rather modern and to include as many "weird" cards as possible while still making sense. Eon hub is deliciously weird, but still makes a ton of sense as a sideboard card, since there's some suspend action going on. Mindlock orb is also rather limited, but there is a bit of fetch going on too, so it's not out of the question either.

I'm just finding some random finishing spells to complete the cube, as in random instants, sorceries and enchantments. Critique welcome.


----------



## caskettheclown

Just got a chinese Daze from the Duel Decks. 

EDIT- ALSO i'm getting a German Tezzeret the Seeker (Duel decks) and an Italian River of Tears


----------



## Nile

I got a 28 card lot of old foils on eBay. There was a foil submerge sitting right in the middle of the picture. I got it all for 99 cents. The two other auctions the guy had went for stupid over retail prices for no reason. Confirmed, those other bidders were blind.

Edit: Once I get this other thing I should post up a picture of all my Magic memorabilia. Have some nice rare things. Some rather expensive.


----------



## Slayer89

Nile said:


> I got a 28 card lot of old foils on eBay. There was a foil submerge sitting right in the middle of the picture. I got it all for 99 cents. The two other auctions the guy had went for stupid over retail prices for no reason. Confirmed, those other bidders were blind.
> 
> Edit: Once I get this other thing I should post up a picture of all my Magic memorabilia. Have some nice rare things. Some rather expensive.



I'll give you $3 right now. Triple your money! 


You guys see the numbers for GP Vegas? Already over 3000 Preregistered players. Could have gone. Probably should have. Should be insane.


----------



## Nile

Well, I'm jumping the gun. I'll post the things I'm getting in when I get them later on.

--First thing is two magazines from 1995, current set at the time was I believe Fallen Empires. One still advertised Ice Age on the back. Worthless, but cool.

--Second picture is a picture from one of the magazines where the price for a pack/starter pack or box of packs is. In 1995, the old money sets were already pretty damn expensive. The Ventura one has buylists for Beta/Alpha/Antiquities/Arabian Nights/Legends and such. Those cards even back then were ....ing expensive. Like a lotus for 1600 and whatnot. 400 or 600 or something for an Ancestral Recall. 40/50 dollars for revised dual lands.

--Third is two 2002 life counters from Hobby Japan in Japan with a Torment key chain/lanyard kind of thing with advertisement for www.magicodyssey.com. Some of these are worth something. These are probably like 6-14 or something each. Opened life counter artist is Rebecca Guay, my favorite. Sealed one is Terese Nielson, my second favorite artist.

--Fourth is a Jace print from the Lorwyn era. He is holding planet Earth in his hand. Pretty damn cool if I say so myself. Worth like 20 dollars I guess. Haven't really seen any though so not totally sure.

--Fifth is a minty condition Beta rule book that you would get in a Beta starter deck. 20 dollars I'd say. Possibly more, never looked before to see what they go for.


----------



## Nile

--First is an Edward P. Beard Jr. print for rainbow crow. Reason I got this is because it has always reminded me of the 7th/8th edition Birds of Paradise and I always saw a little humor in it. 36/500, hand numbered in silver sharpie, from the year 2000. Worth like 10 dollars.

--Second we have an artist proof of the 8th edition Birds of Paradise, which is many peoples' favorite art of that creature, also by Edward. The print is signed by him in silver sharpie and so is the card itself. There is only 50 artist proof cards of each card in existence and so out of the 500 print run there is only 50 with the card. Number 215/500, hand numbered in silver sharpie. I think the artist proof editions started at the number 200 because I have seen four or five other ones in the low 200's up to the mid 240's, so good possibility of being 15/50 for that. Worth 35-50 dollars.

Both prints are matted and sealed from factory after being sent to the artist for signatures and possibly numbering, not sure if he numbered them or not.

Artist Proof cards: Every artist is sent 50 (ever in existence) artist proof copies of each card they made art for from each set when they come out. Alpha/Beta (both with square corners) artist proofs are 143x rarer than their real card counterpart because of the smaller print runs they did back then before becoming more popular and in demand. (As for the cards back in the day that had the wrong artists on the card, the wrong artist was sent the artist proofs and was told to do as wished, some gave them to the real artists, some might have kept them, and I believe one artist used them as if he did the original art even after the original artist requested for them.)
Only sets to have different numbers:

Antiquities: 100 prints
Legends: 100-150 prints
The Dark: 50-100 prints
Fallen Empires: 100 prints
Ice Age: 100-150 prints
Black Border Foreign Ice Age: 100-150 prints
Chronicles: 100 prints

The cards are normal on front but have a completely blank white back on them. The artist is free to do as they see fit with them. Some artists back in the day didn't even receive their copies because of problems, mostly white bordered foreign Revised cards. Artist that did Kird Ape for Arabian Nights only received 35/50 of them.

--Third/fourth/fifth we have sadly not Alpha edition cards but instead International Edition cards. Square corners like Alpha, gold border on back and gold text stating whether it is Collector's version or International. These were produced around 1994 I believe, sometime really early and close to the original sets Alpha/Beta.

They were produced as a cheap alternative to collecting the actual counter parts from those sets, even though they aren't legal even if they didn't have square corners. They came in a fatpack-ish sized box with every card from Beta in it and was a complete set and not sold as singles. International is a lot more rarer than Collector's Edition because there were only 3,000 boxes of International made vs. Collector's 10,000 boxes. Only worth like a few dollars a piece but still cool.


----------



## Nile

--First/second/third is two Inaugural Tournament New York City decks (deck three and deck five) from February 1996. They make like the top 5 decks from Pro tours starting from I think 1995 until 2003 or 2004. These are really cool and detail the tournaments then and cards used, kind of like a blast from the past thing. These are really cool.

The backs of the cards have the same face as the deck boxes. Cards have gold borders on the front and a printed signature of the person that played that deck on every card in gold. The sideboard cards have a small gray circle with SB in the bottom right of the card to indicate it as a sideboard card. It comes with the main 60 card deck, sideboard, 10 blank proxy cards, a player information card, and a card list card.

First deck is a GW advantage style deck with many board wipe cards and such. It ran Zuran Orb to sacrifice land cards for a bomb Balance, Armageddon, or made Land Tax a lot better. It also added value because every deck ran a playset of Strip Mine. This was Bertrand Lestree's deck.

Quarterfinals (2-1)
Semifinals (3-0)
Finals (2-1)
He won the Pro Tour.

Second deck is an obvious The Rack/discard and aggro-ish creature build. Control aggro kind of build in mono black. It ran a good number of discard cards with a Rack package to make the discard better. It also had two or three different mono black two drop knights for aggro. It also used copies of Necopotence and the X damage spell Drain Life. This was Leon Lindback's deck.

Quarterfinals (2-0)
Semifinals (0-3)
Defeated in the semifinals.

The cards are mint themselves, boxes pretty damn near near mint. These are pretty rare all together and in perfect condition. Sealed boxes do go for more and a sealed set of boxes go for quite a few hundred dollars. These are worth something like 30 or 40 dollars. Possibly a little more.

--Fourth/fifth is a Fourth Edition artist proof of Sylvan Library, signed by the artist. This card is dead mint, I swear if it was graded it would be 10/10 gem mint. Probably looks duller than normal since its inside a hard sleeve inside of a penny sleeve surrouned by two penny sleeves on both sides. The artist only did art way back then in Legends I think, he dropped off doing Magic art really early. I barely ever see or have even found Magic cards he has signed, and this is one of the kind of uncommon instances he didn't sign wildly or with a black sharpie across the card. Incredibly rare, probably the best condition one there is. This thing is worth around 65-80 dollars.

That is it. Hope you guys enjoyed what I have accumulated so far. Ask questions if you have any.


----------



## Xaios

Nile said:


> --Second we have an artist proof of the 7th edition Birds of Paradise, which is many peoples' favorite art of that creature, also by Edward. The print is signed by him in silver sharpie and so is the card itself. There is only 50 artist proof cards of each card in existence and so out of the 500 print run there is only 50 with the card. Number 215/500, hand numbered in silver sharpie. I think the artist proof editions started at the number 200 because I have seen four or five other ones in the low 200's up to the mid 240's, so good possibility of being 15/50 for that. Worth 35-50 dollars.
> 
> Both prints are matted and sealed from factory after being sent to the artist for signatures and possibly numbering, not sure if he numbered them or not.



A good friend of mine started playing just after 7th Edition came out, and is thus obsessed with all things collectable from 7th Ed. He'd love those prints. 7th did have some pretty great art actually, it should be said.

Curious though, why is the card in the shot 8th Edition?

Pretty interesting collection you've got there.


----------



## Nile

Xaios said:


> A good friend of mine started playing just after 7th Edition came out, and is thus obsessed with all things collectable from 7th Ed. He'd love those prints. 7th did have some pretty great art actually, it should be said.
> 
> Curious though, why is the card in the shot 8th Edition?
> 
> Pretty interesting collection you've got there.



Oops I derped, it is actually 8th.

And thanks.  Entire collection cost me something like 130-140 in total I'd say including all the shipping. The magazines were part of a huge Urza card lot that I got for $125 shipped. Interesting tidbit, the lot came with four packs of Urza's Saga and I sold those for $75 to my dad and he opened a minty Show and Tell from one.


----------



## Xaios

I hadn't made a new EDH deck in several months, partly because I wanted to make a deck with a commander who didn't see much play and make it work well, and partly because I just hadn't been inspired.

Inspired by an EDH deck that a buddy runs, Merieke Ri Berit, who's concept is to simply beat people over the head with their own creatures, I decided to put my own twist on the concept. I finally found a general that a) no one uses, and b) inspired me.

That general is...







Here's the decklist.

General (1):
- Tariel, Reckoner of Souls

Planeswalkers (3):
- Chandra Ablaze
- Liliana of the Veil
- Liliana Vess

Creatures (14):
- Angel of Despair
- Avatar of Woe
- Bloodgift Demon
- Eternal Witness
- Fleshbag Marauder
- Hell's Caretaker
- Linvala, Keeper of Silence
- Mindslicer
- Necrotic Ooze
- Sadistic Hypnotist
- Sheoldred, Whispering One
- Sire of Insanity
- Solemn Simulacrum
- World Queller

Artifacts (14):
- Champion's Helm
- Chromatic Lantern
- Coalition Relic
- Grim Monolith
- Illusionist's Bracers
- Journeyer's Kite
- Lightning Greaves
- Magewright Stone
- Minion Reflector
- Orzhov Signet
- Rings of Brighthearth
- Sol Ring
- Swiftfoot Boots
- Thousand-Year Elixir

Enchantments (8):
- Concerted Effort
- Debtors' Knell
- Necrogen Mists
- Necropotence
- Pain Magnification
- Painful Quandary
- Phyrexian Arena
- Underworld Connections

Instants (5):
- Mortify
- Path to Exile
- Swords to Plowshares
- Terminate
- Vampiric Tutor

Sorceries (18):
- Austere Command
- Consuming Vapors
- Damnation
- Decree of Pain
- Demonic Tutor
- Diabolic Intent
- Dreadbore
- Increasing Ambition
- Innocent Blood
- Life's Finale
- Obzedat's Aid
- Promise of Power
- Reforge the Soul
- Syphon Flesh
- Syphon Mind
- Unburial Rites
- Vindicate
- Wrath of God

Non-Basic Lands (28):
- Arid Mesa
- Barren Moor
- Battlefield Forge
- Blood Crypt
- Bojuka Bog
- Caves of Koilos
- Clifftop Retreat
- Command Tower
- Dragonskull Summit
- Fetid Heath
- Forgotten Cave
- Godless Shrine
- Isolated Chapel
- Lavaclaw Reaches
- Marsh Flats
- Phyrexian Tower
- Reflecting Pool
- Rugged Prairie
- Rupture Spire
- Sacred Foundry
- Scrubland
- Secluded Steppe
- Slayers' Stronghold
- Sulfurous Springs
- Temple of the False God
- Vault of the Archangel
- Vesuva
- Volrath's Stronghold

Basic Lands (9):
- 2x Mountain
- 2x Plains
- 5x Swamp

I tested it out last night, and it actually worked quite well, I was pleasantly surprised. There are a couple week spots though. I don't have many ways to gain life, while I've got a whole bunch of other things that ping me for card draw (Necropotence, Phyrexian Arena, Underworld Connections), so if I get drained by an Exsanguinate or something like that, it could spell disaster. Also, I need to find a Cabal Conditioning, as it's a super-powerful discard spell.


----------



## devolutionary

You need to be careful about cheeky bastards like me running Nihil Spellbomb and Relic of Progenitus too. I'm always cautious when I play a graveyard dependent Commander deck simply because it does have the gigantic flaw of needing a graveyard to flow right. I had this situation when my Teysa, Orzhov Scion deck ran up against a Varolz, Scar-Striped deck. I was focused on crushing opponent graveyards and recycling my own at a ridiculous rate. 

I do love the style though, Tariel seems like a bad ass Commander with that ability. I wonder if a Reanimate might be a good addition too.


----------



## Xaios

devolutionary said:


> You need to be careful about cheeky bastards like me running Nihil Spellbomb and Relic of Progenitus too. I'm always cautious when I play a graveyard dependent Commander deck simply because it does have the gigantic flaw of needing a graveyard to flow right. I had this situation when my Teysa, Orzhov Scion deck ran up against a Varolz, Scar-Striped deck. I was focused on crushing opponent graveyards and recycling my own at a ridiculous rate.
> 
> I do love the style though, Tariel seems like a bad ass Commander with that ability. I wonder if a Reanimate might be a good addition too.



That's really the beauty of it though. I'm not actually focused on using _my own_ graveyard to take my opponents down. I'm simply focused on killing whatever they put out, and then taking it from _their_ graveyard. Nearly all EDH decks run some form of recursion, and they're a lot less willing to nix their own graveyard than that of others, because they're hoping to reuse whatever they put into the yard.


----------



## devolutionary

Yep, I've noticed that. I build for the meta that says "I can use your graveyard better than you can, I can use my graveyard better than you can, and I can race better than you without either"


----------



## Brill

whats everyones reaction to the spoilers for M14 so far?
(P.S if you haven't seen the new art for millstone is amazing IMO)


----------



## Asrial

The Strionic Resonator is cool as ...., and I will find use of it!


----------



## Xaios

Strionic Resonator will go into every EDH deck EVER.

Making a couple changes to my Tariel deck. Concerted Effort seemed like a unique choice, but I've determined it's pretty win-more and I was never glad to see it when I was behind (and it didn't seem to be that great even when I was ahead). Gonna throw in my shiny Merciless Eviction instead. Also gonna replace Wrath of God with Planar Cleansing, cause I need more ways to deal with non-creature permanents. Lastly, gonna replace Diabolic Intent with a different tutor, although I haven't decided what yet. It's bricked a couple times now. Maybe just another land instead.


----------



## ittoa666

Any advice about colorless lands for my new Karn EDH? Kinda having trouble deciding what needs to go in and how much my budget can handle.


----------



## Nile

Edit: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27082881/?liveView=0

That should be useful. Doesn't list as many as it possibly could but lists most. Don't listen to the values on there its from 2011.


----------



## ittoa666

Not bad at all. Thanks!


----------



## ittoa666

Well guys, hope you weren't trying to drop a lot of cash on FtV:20. It's officially spoiled.







Who else is ready for Star City to charge $300 for it?


----------



## Nile

Pretty cool but that symbol is slightly dumb. Also why reprint Cruel Ultimatum in FTV?


----------



## Xaios

Nile said:


> Pretty cool but that symbol is slightly dumb. Also why reprint Cruel Ultimatum in FTV?



The whole point of the set is that it's 20 cards that have been in major tournament winning decklists. So at least they're cards that have proven themselves. But for every Maze of Ith in an FTV set, you're gonna get some Deserts. 

I'm actually pretty impressed that Wizards had the balls to reprint Jace, although the street price on this thing is of course going to shoot through the ....ing roof. This is why we can't have nice things.


----------



## Slayer89

I actually really like the Cruel Ultimatum.

I'll have to play in more local events at the shop that gives random FTV sets as prizes.


----------



## Xaios

Contrary to popular belief, the pale blue dot ISN'T Earth.












It's Unicron.


----------



## Nile

Wrong thread Xaios.


----------



## Xaios

Djod dammit.


----------



## Slayer89

So, M14 Standard still seems roughly the same. Not bad, but I was hoping for more excitement. Oh well, a varied Standard is nothing to complain about.


----------



## ittoa666

I didn't expect much since it's just core set.


----------



## Xaios

ittoa666 said:


> I didn't expect much since it's just core set.



That's true, to a point. While M13 proved to have more usefulness than I originally anticipated, I haven't been truly excited for a core set since M11. That set introduced the freaking Titans, Demon of Death's Gate, Gaea's Revenge, Mystifying Maze, Fauna Shaman, the new Leyline cycle (except Leyline of the Void), Mitotic Slime (I played the hell out of this card), Overwhelming Stampede, Serra Ascendant... just a really solid set.


----------



## ittoa666

Yeah. We did get Pyromancer though . The only other positive with the set is the utility you an pull from it in limited.


----------



## WhiteWalls

If anyone wants to see M14 action there is GP Rimini streaming right now: Magic


----------



## Nile

Friend and I spent 145 dollars total shipped on this lot on eBay. We got about 600 dollars worth of cards. They were obviously a guys whole collection that played during Mirage, Future Sight and 10th Edition. He had so many of those sets it was unbelievable. You could just feel the dirt and dust slide across the cards because they were either sitting in a garage or basement for years. Guy had six fat packs and something like six starter deck packs. One Fourth Edition one too.

Some of the notable cards were three Damnation, three Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth's, Thoughtseize, Horizon Canopy, foil Daybreak Coronet, foil Arcanis the Omnipotent from 10th, Enlightened Tutor, Mystical Tutor, two Wordly Tutors and other things.

Most copies of a card was probably Dash Hopes, with something like 30-40 copies.


Edit: I also got a Garfield VS Finkel tin box that was opened and had been sitting for years from a different auction. Had every card from the two decks, the two deck boxes, the tin but nothing else that comes with the unopened set. It also quite a few anthologies cards and 4th Edition like Strip Mine, Swords To Plowshares, Armaggedon, and whatnot. Paid 21 dollars with free shipping.

Edit Edit: I also got two of the old spinning pewter Scrye life counters from 1994 made for Magic: The Gathering. Pretty freaking rare. Got them both for a total of like 22 dollars.


----------



## Xaios

Damn, those are some nice finds.


----------



## Nile

Now who wants to buy those cards?


----------



## Xaios

Well, I certainly wouldn't mind that Horizon Canopy or the foil Daybreak Coronet...


----------



## Xaios

My LGS closed shop early on Saturday, and then had an invite-only session of Booze Cube. I didn't partake because I had to drive, but I stayed around and watched, and damn, it was freaking hilarious.


----------



## ittoa666

I MUST play that.


----------



## Xaios

Well, the last foilable non-foil (Defense of the Heart) has finally come out of my Omnath EDH deck. In its place has gone... dun dun dun... foil Sylvan Primordial! I acquired one tonight in a trade.

Omnath is now as foily as he possibly can be.

EDIT: Also took out Pattern of Rebirth for Green Sun's Zenith. The GSZ is foil, the that didn't change the foil count (92 foils, 8 cards that can't be foiled).


----------



## ittoa666

Thinking of that decks price still makes my mind hurt a bit.

In other news, I scored a foily possibility storm tonight for my Riku deck. Tried to get an Italian Kiki-Jiki off of a guy but he wouldn't come off of it. Gonna have to try next time.


----------



## Brill

I was wondering if anyone could look over a decklist of mine. I want to make sure its usable post rotation, and be some what Competitive.
Its a sort Of BUG Midrange. 
Creatures(16):
Lifebane zombie x 2
scavenging ooze x 3
Duskmantle seer x 4
Dreg Mangler x 3
desecration demon x 3

Spells(18):
Devour Flesh x 2
Simic Charm x 2
Rapid Hybridization x 2
Cyclonic rift x 2
Phychic strike x 4
Putrfy x 4
Far//Away x 2

Land (26)
Mutavault x 3
Overgrown Tomb x 4
Breeding pool x 4
Watery Grave x 4
Swamp x 4
Forest x 3 
island x 4


----------



## ittoa666

Go easy on the duskmantles and the desecrations.


----------



## Dan_Vacant

I have three decks and have yet to learn how to actually play.... Would the online game be a good teacher?


----------



## Asrial

In your case, I'd much rather invest in the Duels of the Planeswalker-franchise. It's an awesome tool to learn you the basics.


----------



## Xaios

Dan_Vacant said:


> I have three decks and have yet to learn how to actually play.... Would the online game be a good teacher?



MTG Online is a good way to learn tight technical play once you've already got the hang of the basics, but it's VERY unfriendly to beginners. If you're just starting out, Duel of the Planeswalkers is what you want to play.


----------



## ittoa666

Asrial said:


> In your case, I'd much rather invest in the Duels of the Planeswalker-franchise. It's an awesome tool to learn you the basics.



 I started there and you learn a lot of important things like the stack and speeds of things. It's a great way to get going.


----------



## Slayer89

Loxodrome said:


> I was wondering if anyone could look over a decklist of mine. I want to make sure its usable post rotation, and be some what Competitive.
> Its a sort Of BUG Midrange.
> Creatures(16):
> Lifebane zombie x 2
> scavenging ooze x 3
> Duskmantle seer x 4
> Dreg Mangler x 3
> desecration demon x 3
> 
> Spells(19):
> Devour Flesh x 2
> Simic Charm x 2
> Rapid Hybridization x 2
> Cyclonic rift x 2
> Phychic strike x 4
> Putrfy x 4
> Far//Away x 2
> 
> Land (26)
> Mutavault x 3
> Overgrown Tomb x 4
> Breeding pool x 4
> Watery Grave x 4
> Swamp x 4
> Forest x 3
> island x 4



Here's what I would do personally.

-1 Duskmantle Seer, -2 Rapid Hybridization, -2 Simic Charm, -4 Psychic Strike, -1 Mutavault

+1 Lifebane Zombie, +1 Desecration Demon, +2 Abrupt Decay, + 1 Underworld Connections, +1 Vraska, +2 Urban Evolution, +2 Divination

Plus swap a couple basics for Guildgates.

That'd leave the list something like this

Creatures(16):
Lifebane zombie x 3
scavenging ooze x 3
Duskmantle seer x 3
Dreg Mangler x 3
desecration demon x 4

Spells(18):
Abrupt Decay x 2
Devour Flesh x 2
Cyclonic rift x 2
Divination x 2
Underworld Connections x 1
Putrfy x 4
Far//Away x 2
Urban Evolution x 2
Vraska the Unseen x 2

Land (25)
Mutavault x 2
Overgrown Tomb x 4
Breeding pool x 4
Watery Grave x 4
Dimir Guilgate x1
Simic Guildgate x1
Golgari Guildgate x1
Swamp x 3
Forest x 2 
island x 3



Basically this was because Seer is pretty risky with a deck that has a somewhat high curve. It might be correct to just cut it all together and bump your other creatures to 4 copies. Rapid Hybridization is decent in tempo decks or decks trying to utilive evolve, but in these colors you have better options. Simic Charm is a good sideboard card I guess, but doesn't do a lot for a midrange list. Psychic Strike is cool, but I think you'd rather just focus on removal an developing your board than spend time trying to counter a few things. 26 lands seemed a bit high and cutting a Mutavault seems best for your mana. The additions were off the top of my head and I avoided things that will rotate soon.

Anyway, I love the BUG color combination and those are the changes I'd make.


----------



## Dan_Vacant

My friend downloaded a "Magic 2014 Demo" on steam I played it and I think I could learn the other stuff from playing in person.


----------



## Brill

Played two drafts today, Kicked everyones ass. Felt really good. 
List of prizes:
Foil Mutavault.
haunted platemail
Shivan Dragon
Scourge of valkas.
Boy oh boy do I love kicking ass at drafts


----------



## Xaios

On the MTG Gameday draft last Sunday, I ended up with a RETARDED deck. It was 3 colors, but I had fixing in the form of Darksteel Ingots. I had:

- Shivan Dragon
- 2x Serra Angel
- 2x Sengir Vampire
- Fireshrieker (foil)
- A ton of removal

Alas, my luck pretty much shat on me. Hitting my colors was never a problem. I was just either getting constantly land flooded or land screwed. It was SUPER frustrating, especially with that playmat on the line (which is selling for like $80 on Ebay).


----------



## Xaios

Well, I decided to start playing at the sealed league at my local store. As this was week 5, I bought 10 packs of M14 to catch up to everyone else's pools.

In those 10 packs, a selection of what I opened:

- Archangel of Thune
- Scavenging Ooze
- Chandra, Pyromaster
- Shadowborn Demon
- foil Ratchet Bomb
- Path of Bravery
- Door of Destinies
- Ogre Battledriver

/winning


----------



## Eclipse

Personally I can't wait for Theros block. I feel like Theros is going to be a strong block to play. I played M14 Prerelease and wasn't very happy with the cards. I did pull a Jace though. So I just milled my way to the top and eventually took 2nd.


----------



## Brill

tristanroyster said:


> Personally I can't wait for Theros block. I feel like Theros is going to be a strong block to play. I played M14 Prerelease and wasn't very happy with the cards. I did pull a Jace though. So I just milled my way to the top and eventually took 2nd.



Core sets aren't the funnest limited formats. But that is lucky as ...., if you have a jace, you just win limited games.


----------



## Xaios

Loxodrome said:


> Core sets aren't the funnest limited formats. But that is lucky as ...., if you have a jace, you just win limited games.



Agreed. Jace is pretty much the best card to open in M14 draft, especially if you can draw the cards to support and/or defend it.

I went 4-0 at a draft about a month ago. Drafted a killer Black/Green deck. The only real threat was a mill deck where he had drafted Jace. He pulled it in his opening hand in games 1 and 2. Game 1, I got REAL lucky, topdecked a Bramblecrush after getting milled once by Jace as well as hit with a Traumatize. Won the game with 2 cards left in my library. If he had used Jace's ability a second time, I wouldn't have. Didn't get lucky during game 2, so we were at 1-1.

Game 3, I decided not to cut his deck when he offered it up. I tapped it instead. Damn good thing too, I won that game handily. However, we rifled through the deck after the game was done and, sure enough, if I had cut based on my usual pattern, he would have had it again in his opening hand, for the third game in a row.


----------



## Brill

Xaios said:


> Agreed. Jace is pretty much the best card to open in M14 draft, especially if you can draw the cards to support and/or defend it.
> 
> I went 4-0 at a draft about a month ago. Drafted a killer Black/Green deck. The only real threat was a mill deck where he had drafted Jace. He pulled it in his opening hand in games 1 and 2. Game 1, I got REAL lucky, topdecked a Bramblecrush after getting milled once by Jace as well as hit with a Traumatize. Won the game with 2 cards left in my library. If he had used Jace's ability a second time, I wouldn't have. Didn't get lucky during game 2, so we were at 1-1.
> 
> Game 3, I decided not to cut his deck when he offered it up. I tapped it instead. Damn good thing too, I won that game handily. However, we rifled through the deck after the game was done and, sure enough, if I had cut based on my usual pattern, he would have had it again in his opening hand, for the third game in a row.



The one I played the other day, the guy drafted like a Blue/red Mill deck, with a trading post. he didn't have a jace, So I was okay.. Game 1 I won with one card in library, game two, same thing happened. He was so angry  He was running a traumatize though, pretty effective.


----------



## Xaios

The new "Heroic" mechanic is interesting, although I get the feeling that it'll be more useful in Draft/Sealed than Standard, especially if it stays in White and Red.

The Monstrosity ability, alas, seems quite overcosted, at least on Polukranos. While his base stats are nice, the Monstrosity cost is laughable when you think about what you actually get for it. Let's say your opponent has an army of 2/2 creatures. To kill 2 of them, you'd have to spend a grand total of _13 mana_, and then you're left with a completely vanilla 9/9 that may still not even be able to get through blockers.

Now, that could change. Who knows, there could be a yet-to-be-spoiled enchantment that interracts with using a creature's Monstrosity ability. But from what I can see so far, it doesn't look to be particularly efficient.


----------



## Asrial

^I think you might misunderstand the card a bit.

"When Polukranos, World Eater becomes monstrous, it deals X damage *divided as you choose among any number of target creatures your opponents control*. Each of those creatures deals damage equal to its power to Polukranos."

You can kill 4 with that mana you assigned, and still be left with a decent body. I don't think he will be in any competitive decks, but he works, and he will do a metric ton of work in both limited and EDH.


----------



## Brill

That White red heroic guy kind of reminds me of Wild Defiance. Sure its not a +3/3 bonus, but you get yourself a 3/2 vigilant First strike body. I can see using him in Limited, maybe Some sort of Boros aggro deck, Or some weird Naya thing, with lots of Buff abilitys.


----------



## Xaios

Asrial said:


> ^I think you might misunderstand the card a bit.
> 
> "When Polukranos, World Eater becomes monstrous, it deals X damage *divided as you choose among any number of target creatures your opponents control*. Each of those creatures deals damage equal to its power to Polukranos."
> 
> You can kill 4 with that mana you assigned, and still be left with a decent body. I don't think he will be in any competitive decks, but he works, and he will do a metric ton of work in both limited and EDH.



How you described it is exactly how I interpreted it as, and it's still underwhelming, especially for a mythic. A 5/5 for 4 mana is great, don't get me wrong. But a _non-repeatable_ ability to burn (which can't even hit players) and to get marginally larger for such a high cost is not. It'll be fine in Limited simply by virtue of an excellent P/T to mana ratio for its base body. But its ability is just too highly costed to be useful in a constructed environment, versatile though it may be. It'd be that much better if it had trample, but they couldn't even do that.


----------



## Asrial

You just described him as only being able to kill 2 for 13 mana, which was an understatement. Oh well, every set needs bad mythics. But really, imagine that beast being rare, he would be way too busted from a limited PoV.

And Anax/Cymede is weird as all hell. Powerful, yes, but trample??


----------



## abandonist

Holy shit! MtG!

I used to play back in the Beta-Mirage days. Sold off all my moxes and lotuses for like $100!


----------



## Xaios

Asrial said:


> You just described him as only being able to kill 2 for 13 mana, which was an understatement. Oh well, every set needs bad mythics. But really, imagine that beast being rare, he would be way too busted from a limited PoV.



I'd rather have Deadbridge Goliath, and it's a rare. 







Check that sucker out though. It's a Legendary Enchantment Artifact. How's that for some card types. 

It's pretty cool though, it's a super-Alluring Siren stapled to a Coastal Piracy. I like it.



abandonist said:


> Holy shit! MtG!
> 
> I used to play back in the Beta-Mirage days. Sold off all my moxes and lotuses for like $100!



Do yourself a favor. Don't look to see how much you could get for them now.


----------



## Xaios

Oh yeah, got my FTV: 20 set. I'm still debating whether or not to actually open it. 

In fairness though, I don't _need_ of the cards that it came with. I still have 2 regular JTMSs which is enough for EDH. I may actually just keep it boxed up. 

I also have a "War of Attrition" event deck from New Phyrexia, still in the plastic wrap. That was the one that shipped with 2 Stoneforge Mystics _just_ before Stoneforge Mystic was banned in Standard. Then Wizards introduced that awkward ruling that said "if you play the War of Attrition deck as it came boxed, you can still play Stoneforge Mystic, but if you change the deck AT ALL, Stoneforge Mystic must be removed." I think I'll hang onto it for a few years, see if it ever appreciates as a collector's item.


----------



## ittoa666

Finally won my first FNM after two and a half years. Pulled through with four color control. Blood Baron does some work.


----------



## Brill

ittoa666 said:


> Finally won my first FNM after two and a half years. Pulled through with four color control. Blood Baron does some work.



4 colour seems intresting. Blood baron is really good, he really does close down the games.


----------



## ittoa666

Yeah. He became a ten ten a few times.


----------



## ittoa666

Any of you guys have advice or ideas for throwing together a RUG list for FNM? Want to try my hand at it. I was thinking maybe base it around pyromancer and delver with giant growth.

I think it would probably benefit from ravagers, too.


----------



## Xaios

Maybe throw in some Farseeks to ramp up, then once you hit 7 mana, overload Cyclonic Rift or Teleportal and alpha strike?

(Bear in mind that I haven't really been paying attention to current archetypes. I've been happy enough to 3-1/4-0 every FNM standard tournament with the same Naya Midrange deck that I've been playing with since Gatecrash came out. )


----------



## ittoa666

I was thinking of a more aggressive approach, maybe with Burning-Trees and whatnot.


----------



## Brill

Anyone seen more o the new theros spoilers? 
Bestow seems like a cool mechanic, definitely makes "enchantments matter". Hopefully there is a cheap one, so some new form of Bant hexproof can exist.. or at least some cheap ones for modern hexproof.


----------



## Nile

Those gods are looking to be the tittays.

Also, I hate heroic.


----------



## ittoa666

These new cards look so good for EDH. Standard? Not so much.


----------



## Xaios

Had an epic EDH moment last night. I was playing Sigarda, Host of Herons in a 6 person game. It was attack-right/defend-left, but open spell range. I had an okay starting hand, but for more than 10 turns, I literally drew _nothing_ but land, even after using Krosan Verge and shuffling. It was ridiculous and incredibly frustrating.

I had gotten Sigarda out with an Armadillo Cloak. Alas, someone then Terminus'd the table. Nearly everyone's commanders got tucked, including my own. From that point on, it was an endless slog just to rebuild board position. Drawing nothing but land didn't help. Thankfully, the two people to my left weren't doing squat either. However, the guy to my right (who I would have been attacking if I had anything to attack with), started running through the table with Karrthus (which had gotten tucked as well, but he managed to tutor back) and Utvara Hellkite.

The turn before the person to my left died to him, I finally managed to finally draw something that wasn't land in the form of a Garruk, Primal Hunter. I made a 3/3 token, then pumped it with Oran Rief, the Vastwood. I passed the turn. The guy to my left tried to Day of Judgment, only to realize that he'd only drawn one source of white mana all game. Needless to say, he folded to the incoming onslaught of dragons.

Finally, it came back to me. What do I topdeck? Winds of Rath, baby! I use GPH's -3 ability to draw 4 more cards, included in which was an Argothian Enchantress, Enchantress's Presence, Sigil of the Empty Throne and Eladamri's Call, which I promptly used to get my commander back into hand and set up a draw engine. Then I nuked that sucker. Sigil got Krosan Grip'd the second it hit the board, but I was still able to set up the draw engine. He also tried to destroy my Sterling Grove (which I draw from Argothian Enchantress when I played Enchantress's Presence), but I sac'd it in response and tutored up Shield of the Oversoul for some Indestructible shenanigans.

The draw engine then got me Idyllic Tutor and Three Dreams. I tutored for Mirari's Wake with Idyllic Tutor, then Vow of Duty + Spirit Mantle + Ancestral Mask with Three Dreams, and threw them all on Sigarda. I had done 7 commander damage earlier in the game, so I then walked around his other creatures that he had played since I nuked the field and clocked him for another 20, ending it.


----------



## ittoa666

That's good stuff right there, and the reason I play EDH.


----------



## Nile

Anyone else notice Strionic Resonator is basically sitting on Tropical Island?

http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2013/182/c/9/strionic_resonator_by_noahbradley-d6bh5p9.jpg


----------



## ittoa666

It is!


----------



## Xaios

Awwwww yeaaaaah. Cabal Coffers analogue for every color.


----------



## ittoa666

That, and now thought seize is coming back to go with mutavault again. Wonder how many other Lorwyn reprints we'll see?


----------



## Asrial

I wouldn't call that land an analogue Cabal. It has the potential of being very very explosive, adding splash-possibility to any deck, and ofc: ramp! We don't know yet how much Devotion is going to be relevant in the upcoming meta, but I assume it's gonna be fairly good. I'm already on my search for Fiendslayer Paladins and Imposing Sovereigns for a WW deck, and that new Elspeth is just gonna be bonkers, taken into context you can get her out by T5.


----------



## Xaios

Holy moley...







Protects himself with both his +1 and 0 ability, ramps your mana, AND has an ultimate that is both feasibly reachable and game-endingly powerful...


----------



## Asrial

^Yeah... Holy shit.
R/G got some really sick tech this time around. I mean really, the first PW that actually generates mana (as far as my knowledge goes), protects himself, and with greatest efficiency dumps insane critters unto the battlefield.

If it wasn't because I set my mind for playing WW and using Elspeth, I'd fish for a playset of this guy ASAP.


----------



## Xaios

Asrial said:


> ^Yeah... Holy shit.
> R/G got some really sick tech this time around. I mean really, the first PW that actually generates mana (as far as my knowledge goes), protects himself, and with greatest efficiency dumps insane critters unto the battlefield.
> 
> If it wasn't because I set my mind for playing WW and using Elspeth, I'd fish for a playset of this guy ASAP.



Koth generated mana as well, but his mana generation was a minus ability that only left him with 1 loyalty if used the turn he came onto the field. Xenagos' puts him to 5 loyalty and, while it probably has a lower floor as to how much mana you'll get in the decks that will play it, it also has a higher ceiling. It's basically an R/G Gaea's Cradle.


----------



## Asrial

Forgot about Koth. But yeah, this is defo going into my Thromok deck. No questions asked, this guy is too god.


----------



## Xaios

Asrial said:


> Forgot about Koth. But yeah, this is defo going into my Thromok deck. No questions asked, this guy is too god.



Dear Lord, yeah, this guy would be an insane source of mana generation in Thromok. At least until you chomp all your tokens for a 10,000 p/t general.


----------



## Asrial

Xaios said:


> Dear Lord, yeah, this guy would be an insane source of mana generation in Thromok. At least *until you chomp all your tokens for a 10,000 p/t general.*



And? That's usually the part where I nuke 2 guys out of the game and swing for lethal at the 3rd, remaining players scoops.


----------



## Xaios

A friend of mine recently discovered a neat, easy to assemble and powerful-but-not-broken combo for Jund-colored EDH:

Charnelhoard Wurm + Blood (Flesh/Blood) = Strong, repeatable direct damage.


----------



## ittoa666

Xenagos is going to be insane. Can't wait to maybe play him.


----------



## Nile

Ashiok is terrible.


----------



## ittoa666

It's the first card that I haven't been excited about, so that says a lot. It'll find it's application. 

I'm trying so hard to think of an application for him, but my mind is frying itself every time.


----------



## Xaios

Well, one possible use is to play him with a bunch of mana dudes and start slinging Clan Defiance for big numbers. Could use it with Zhur-Taa Druid and Zhur-Taa Ancient.


----------



## Asrial

Nile said:


> Ashiok is terrible.



It's a negative he can't use his minus-ability right off the bat, and the fact he doesn't allow for self-mill is also a minus. He's really tanky for a 3CMC walker though, he deals with the more agressive decks, and his ult puts your opponent into topdeck mode, while giving you plenty of targets for his minus.

I won't write him off as horrid just yet.


----------



## Xaios

Where Ashiok will probably shine most is blue control mirror matches. Once he sticks, he'll be difficult for most control decks to deal with, because he comes down early and gains loyalty fast. Then you start exiling your opponents' library, put their own finisher into play under your control, then beat them to death with it.


----------



## ittoa666

Here's a good article on how to make him useful. Not a bad read.

Weaving Nightmares : Daily MTG : Magic: The Gathering


----------



## Xaios

Really Wizards? Really??






Half Seedborn Muse + Half Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir, stapled together?

SHEESH.


----------



## ittoa666

Saw that and threw my arms up in excitement. So good.


----------



## Xaios

New dual lands are incredibly meh. Ironic that we're getting worse fixing in this set than we got in Innistrad, despite the fact that Innistrad had far fewer multicolored spells.

These new duals should be been uncommon instead of rare. Yes, they're strictly better than New Benalia, a mono-colored land that also Scry'd for 1, but that doesn't mean they're good enough to be rare. IMO, any rare dual land should be so because it can conceivably enter the battlefield untapped.


----------



## ittoa666

Xaios said:


> New dual lands are incredibly meh.



 I couldn't be less excited for these things. At least we have the shocks to keep for a while.


----------



## Asrial

They're just pretty bland, compared to the recent sets. We've had INN, who provided us with a standard loaded with perfect check land mana-fixing, and RTR who provided us with shock lands AND standard taplands *AT COMMON*. We've been spoiled with the recent mana fixing, so I'm completely cool with scry-lands at rare.

N.Benalia was uncommon, and only gave W, which was balanced. Adding dual land capability warrants a rarity bump IMO. Besides, it's gonna be a nice addition to a lot of decks, especially since the format is slowing down.


----------



## WhiteWalls

Mana fixing has been way too good in recent sets. I still remember when I played UG Madness back in 2003-2004 in standard, the mana for that deck was 10 islands, 10 forests and 3 city of brass. If you wanted to play it in block constructed you only had Tarnished Citadel lol

The problem with most of the dual lands that get printed nowadays is that they are basically auto-includes in decks of their colors. If you are building a blue-white deck, you are going to play 4 Hallowed Fountainss and 4 Glacial Fortresses no matter what, while even a land as Adarkar Wastes might not be as playable because it has a drawback that might be a lot more relevant.


----------



## Xaios

The guy who ran Ark42 took it down. Damn shame, was a fantastic resource. Seems he's become disenfranchised with Magic as of late, especially due to going ons within his specific MTC community. There's a couple threads on Reddit about it.

RIP Ark42.


----------



## Brill

I think Theros has a bunch of cool spells and such. hopefully the format will slow down so a lot of the higher CMC cards will be good.
I like how there is going to be a 'new' Auger Of Bolas in Omenspeaker, 2 mana 1/3 with some sort of draw manipulation. Sure you don't get to get one of the 2 cards, but it helps.
They've done some better things with white cards nowadays, its a lot better than the last set, decent cards that seem to be better in limited and constructed.
The new Elspeth looks really good, the + 1 seems to be where its at, like 3 dudes is really good.
Chained to the rocks is a bit slow, I like it, but its not at instant speed. still may see cool, but not amazing, I guess the non instant speed makes it have no draw back like Swords & Path.
Green/White seems to have a lot of strong 2 drops in standard atm, like Scavenging ooze, Voice of Resurgence and now we have Fleecemane lion. So G/W will see a lot of play, between 2 mana 3/3s and 3 mana 4/4s it'll lock in its speed.
The gods seem to be eh, Purphoros seems to be the best, and will power a lot of fast mono red/ red + X decks, especially with the new hastie 5 drop (Stormbreath dragon), i can see some sort of agro deck that goes, T1 Legion loyalist T2 ash Zealot T3 Boros reckoner T4 purphoros T5 Stormbreath and like win. Also good to see a new 2 mana 3dmg burn spell.


----------



## ittoa666

Guys...


----------



## Xaios

Then there's this:






Super-Angel of Despair fused with Archon of Justice? Reanimator just wet itself.

Also interesting note that this is the first female Archon. In the past, one of the clearest distinctions between Angels and Archons were that Angels were female (except for Gabriel Angelfire, who predates that rule, and Malach of the Dawn, who was printed in "bizarro-everything" Planar Chaos).


----------



## ittoa666

That card is definitely a good one  

Time to get out my obzedat's aids.


----------



## Xaios

Now it's almost a shame that Unburial Rites is rotating. 


Almost. 


(And I played the hell out of reanimator when RTR first dropped too.)


----------



## ittoa666

Well if you're sitting on that kind of mana, you probably won't even need Rites, but I do agree. I am kinda sad to see it rotate. I do like to bust them out every now and then.


----------



## ittoa666

Ugh...guys.....


----------



## Slayer89

I think Ashen Rider is the first card I'm really excited about. I think I'm just going to chill until the set's been out a while so I can see how things settle. I don't think my Revelations and Jace's will get much worse. In the mean time I will keep trying to dream crush kids in Kaijudo.


----------



## caskettheclown

stoked for thero's , not enough to get me back into standard but i'm definitely gonna pick up some singles for commander.

Speaking of commander, recently got a 5 color deck , horde of notions is the commander. The rest are commons. I won 2/3 games so far with it so i'm happy. Gonna be swapping some stuff out and upgrading it today and when I get some money.


----------



## traditional

Had a 4-way game of modern last night, played a black-white aggro. Got really lucky early and had two Basilica Screechers out on the board for the whole game. Extort was the only reason I survived long enough to win, just as my girlfriend (who was the only other player left) drew a Worldfire and had enough to play it. 
Massive props to my friend who ended up with 16 2/2 elf tokens on the board, to only get annihilated by my girlfriends aggro red charge then my extort.


----------



## iRaiseTheDead

My friend came home visiting from the Navy and admitted to gaining a new addiction. MTG. and we played a little bit all today. I'm pretty hooked now 

I've got a question though. what's up with the "you can only play with 'the years' cards?" sounds like a money scheme to me


----------



## Brill

iRaiseTheDead said:


> My friend came home visiting from the Navy and admitted to gaining a new addiction. MTG. and we played a little bit all today. I'm pretty hooked now
> 
> I've got a question though. what's up with the "you can only play with 'the years' cards?" sounds like a money scheme to me



Well the "you can only play with this years cards" is called standard, which is one of many formats, and its done for reasons of balancing and innovation. A lot of cards would not be played competitively if all cards were legal, looking at legacy you see that.


----------



## Nile

Yep, dude didn't explain that much at all for you.


----------



## caskettheclown

Girlfriend got Angel of Despair for only a buck at a secondhand store that tried getting into magic but failed as they didn't know prices of anything.


So she isn't using Angel of Despair , I am using her now


----------



## Xaios

Me and some friends are trying an EDH variant that we're calling "mono-multicolored." Basically, the idea is that you have to have a general that is at very least 2 colors, and that every single card in the deck must have at least 2 colors in its color identity (for example, Forbidden Alchemy would be okay because it has black in its color identity). Even artifacts and nonbasic lands have to have a color identity of at least 2 colors. Part of the challenge is trying to build a synergistic deck with a dramatically reduced pool of cards. I've found it's quite cool though, there's still opportunity for combos, but nothing terribly overpowered. For myself, I'm going with a Jund build, headed by Kresh the Bloodbraided. The most powerful combo in the deck is probably Charnelhoard Wurm + Blood (Flesh/Blood), which certainly isn't TOO powerful. I've lots of ways to kill stuff in Jund though, which is quite nice.

The important thing though is that it really eliminates the possibility for what a lot of people would call "degenerate" combos.


----------



## ittoa666

I've been thinking of starting a system where each player rolls a d20 to decide who goes first, and depending on the number, you get a different effect. For example; you roll a 20 and you get an extra turn after the first. If you roll a one, you start at 20 instead of 40.


----------



## Xaios

ittoa666 said:


> I've been thinking of starting a system where each player rolls a d20 to decide who goes first, and depending on the number, you get a different effect. For example; you roll a 20 and you get an extra turn after the first. If you roll a one, you start at 20 instead of 40.



I wouldn't make it quite so transparent. I'd make the effect random compared to the number. For example, extra turn if you roll a 14, lose 10 life if you roll 6 or something like that.


----------



## ittoa666

Yeah, I could go with that. It's still an idea that hasn't even been fully thought on though. Gonna have to sit down with my group and illustrate how it'll work. 

Also been thinking about having another mode devoted to non-creature legends as the "commander". 

It'll all pan out for the sake of fun.


----------



## caskettheclown

ittoa666 said:


> Yeah, I could go with that. It's still an idea that hasn't even been fully thought on though. Gonna have to sit down with my group and illustrate how it'll work.
> 
> Also been thinking about having another mode devoted to non-creature legends as the "commander".
> 
> It'll all pan out for the sake of fun.



Me and my friends had something like that worked out a few months after we started playing.

Once you have less than five life, you can sacrifice 3 lands to roll the dice and whatever the dice lands on is your life total. Not a very thought out plan but we had just started playing so it was fun at the time.


Let us know if you get it fleshed out man


----------



## Brill

Can't wait till Theros hits. Try out a new little combo that I found out about.
Its Archangel of Thune + fathom mage + horizon chimera. Seems fun and silly that It just might work  expensive however...


----------



## ittoa666

caskettheclown said:


> Let us know if you get it fleshed out man



Will do 

Anyways, the midnight release was terrible for me, but today's prerelease was intense. Pulled two Xenagos back to back.


----------



## Xaios

ittoa666 said:


> Will do
> 
> Anyways, the midnight release was terrible for me, but today's prerelease was intense. Pulled two Xenagos back to back.



Dayum!

I went 4-1 at today's pre-release (and I maintain that I could have gone 5-0) had I not gotten horrifically mana screwed in games 2 and 3 one round). I went with black, and I pulled *THREE* Agent of the Fates. Let me tell you, when you can build around that card, it is the stone-cold nuts. On top of that, I also got two Gray Merchant of Asphodels, which deserve at least as much credit as the Agents. Thanks to those, I was able to beat someone who played both Elspeth, Sun's Champion AND Evangel of Heliod against me. I also cracked an Underworld Cerberus, which made a great (albeit risky) finisher.

Also, Burnished Hart is officially a legit non-green ramp card for EDH. It's basically Wayfarer's Bauble #2.


----------



## WhiteWalls

I went 3-2 and that is the best I could have hoped for honestly. I had a clunky black white deck with decent removal but horrible early game and I got destroyed by green-white decks both times. The only cool interaction I had was Spear of Heliod with two Evangels


----------



## Asrial

I went today. Had some pretty okay pulls.
Got both Heliod and Erebos, along with Bident of Thassa, Hundred-Handed One, Psychic Intrusion and Sylvan Carytid. In my sealed pool, with a Celestial Archon as promo. Proceeded to go 3-2, due to some rather awkward luck in some games, which got me into top 8.
There, my first match was against one of the judges, who proceeded me to catch me off guard because I shuffled my deck post draw. Didn't think about it, and was just off that match, so I lost 2-0. Got a booster in prize, which contained a Soldier of the Pantheon.

It was allright.


----------



## Xaios

So, played in a couple more pre-release events.

Early today, it was another single person sealed. For mythics, I got Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver and Master of Waves. Let me tell you, those cards do some SERIOUS work. When Ashiok comes down, he pretty much takes over the game. I went 3-2 that round, although I certainly don't begrudge my losses there, as my deck still did just fine. Ashiok pretty much single-handedly won me the last round, allowing me to still two of my opponent's best creatures. Master of Waves was no joke either. Coming down with Devotion of 3 (including the one from Master) puts 8 power on board for 4 mana. It gets out of hand quickly.

I then went 3-1 in a two-headed giant sealed. We even beat the store owner, which, to be honest, felt pretty damn good. Came out of nowhere too. For mythics, opened an Underworld Cerberus (second of the weekend) and an Ashen Rider (BOOYA!). My partner was playing B/W Control so we threw it in there, although he never actually drew into it over the course of the whole thing. I was playing GRb Minotaur aggro. While Cerberus is a house in 1v1, the higher life totals and double opponents (and their creatures) made me realize that it would actually not be beneficial at all in 2HG, so I didn't run it.

Nice thing about beating the store owner in the last round was that they totally appeared to have us dead on board. They over-extended a bit in their last turn, which to them made it seem like we couldn't get nearly enough damage through. However, my partner dropped a dude that tapped their most dangerous blocker for the turn, then I dropped a hasty attacker with 4 power, and THEN I dropped a guy that, thanks to the mechanics of 2HG, shot 10 points of their life total just by coming into play. Needless to say, they were kinda stunned. 

But yeah, overall it was a fun weekend!

So yeah, get some Ashioks. That card was an absolute house for me. I could see him being well and truly amazing in Esper Control.


----------



## Xaios

Made a deck for Theros standard (yes, I've already gotten some booster boxes). It's a bit limited by my cardpool, but I think it's a good start.

2x Doom Blade
3x Scavenging Ooze (I know I own a 4th, but I can't seem to find it...)
3x Sylvan Caryatid
4x Agent of the Fates (Actually not abusing it's Heroic ability, just the fact that it's an on-curve creature people will hate to block.)
3x Hero's Downfall
1x Lifebane Zombie (Would play more if I owned more.)
4x Putrefy
2x Read the Bones
4x Desecration Demon
1x Erebos, God of the Dead
1x Whip of Erebos
3x Gray Merchant of Asphodel
2x Rescue from the Underworld
2x Shadowborn Demon
2x Abhorrent Overlord

4x Overgrown Tomb
4x Golgari Guildgate
5x Forest
10x Swamp


----------



## Nile

.... yeah, Golgari.


----------



## Xaios

Gotta tweak it a bit for some more draw power. Think I'll drop an Agent of the Fates for another Read the Bones.


----------



## Asrial

Okay, I have to share this game, as it was pretty whack.

At uni, we had a 3-man EDH game between my Ghave-deck, a Kalastria-deck, and a Niv-Genius. Niv got it all under control with an izzet staticaster and a basilisk collar on Niv, I sit with a shitton of mana-rocks and a Cathars Crusade on board, and black is just in the passive. I draw a White Sun's Zenith, pass turn and pray for the love of god he doesn't equip the basilisk on the staticaster. He doesn't.

The black player then proceeds to tutor for a Hex, because he didn't have a Damnation.
So before my turn, I cast WSZ for 7, put down 7 9/9 kitties onto the field. Niv-guy points out, that after blockers and all that stuff, I'm still 1 dmg short from killing him. Onto the draw...
Akromas Memorial.


----------



## ittoa666

Don't you love moments like that?


----------



## Eladamri

I've just been reading a few pages of this thread and missing my MtG cards like mad! I had a load of them back in the day and I sold them to buy a guitar when I was 19.


----------



## Xaios

Eladamri said:


> I've just been reading a few pages of this thread and missing my MtG cards like mad! I had a load of them back in the day and I sold them to buy a guitar when I was 19.



Yeah, I figured you probably got your username from the old MTG character.

I've been refining my G/B deck as I've obtained more cards. Now it looks like:

1x Doom Blade
3x Scavenging Ooze
3x Sylvan Caryatid
2x Agent of the Fates
4x Hero's Downfall
2x Lifebane Zombie
4x Putrefy
3x Read the Bones
3x Desecration Demon
1x Erebos, God of the Dead (still need 1 more, but no one was willing to part with them last night)
2x Whip of Erebos
3x Gray Merchant of Asphodel
2x Rescue from the Underworld
2x Shadowborn Demon
2x Abhorrent Overlord

4x Overgrown Tomb
4x Golgari Guildgate
5x Forest
10x Swamp

So yeah, it's getting there. Agent of the Fates, cool as it is, frankly just doesn't really belong in this deck as I can't abuse him, so he's getting replaced with Lifebane Zombie as I obtain more.

Thanks to some canny trading, I'm up to 2x Purphoros, 3x Ashiok and 3x Thoughtseize. Booya. And a buddy of mine went from having no Stormbreath Dragons to having a full set last night after trades (including the one I opened).

Only problem is I've been trying to trade away Xenagos for more Purphoros, but it just seems no one is biting. Oh well, I'll keep trying.


----------



## Brill

Xaios said:


> Yeah, I figured you probably got your username from the old MTG character.
> 
> I've been refining my G/B deck as I've obtained more cards. Now it looks like:
> 
> 1x Doom Blade
> 3x Scavenging Ooze
> 3x Sylvan Caryatid
> 2x Agent of the Fates
> 4x Hero's Downfall
> 2x Lifebane Zombie
> 4x Putrefy
> 3x Read the Bones
> 3x Desecration Demon
> 1x Erebos, God of the Dead (still need 1 more, but no one was willing to part with them last night)
> 2x Whip of Erebos
> 3x Gray Merchant of Asphodel
> 2x Rescue from the Underworld
> 2x Shadowborn Demon
> 2x Abhorrent Overlord
> 
> 4x Overgrown Tomb
> 4x Golgari Guildgate
> 5x Forest
> 10x Swamp


I've got my Bug deck similar to this with just splash Blue. I'm really confused as to why you're not running Abrupt decays or more doom blades? the 2 mana removal is prety good, since the decays hit Domris's and other random 3 or < than 3 drops. 
I also run bow of Nylea, which is quite good,


----------



## Xaios

Loxodrome said:


> I've got my Bug deck similar to this with just splash Blue. I'm really confused as to why you're not running Abrupt decays or more doom blades? the 2 mana removal is prety good, since the decays hit Domris's and other random 3 or < than 3 drops.
> I also run bow of Nylea, which is quite good,



Definitely gonna have Abrupt Decays and more Doom Blades in the sideboard, but for the mainboard, I prefer the game 1 versatility of creature removal with no targeting restrictions.


----------



## Asrial

ittoa666 said:


> Don't you love moments like that?



That is what I live and breathe for within the game.  That game felt more like I was playing Thromok than Ghave.


----------



## Brill

had a booster draft last night. 
came first, but I made a bad discussion on the value of my first pick so I was sad (I thought a foil Heliod would be worth more than an Elspeth)
But i did end up getting a: Purphoros(some new players their, so I felt bad for the guy that just wanted a $2 card for it..), a thoughtseize, a Nytho, and a temple of abandon.
I also got 2 booster boxes. and out of them, not a single thoughtseize, but like 8 mythics. no elspeths still.. I did get all of the gos minus Erebos, and the other 2 planes walkers.
overall it was some decent boxes.


----------



## Xaios

Played at the local Sealed League yesterday. Opened a Heliod, as well as Thoughtseize #4.


----------



## Asrial

Loxodrome said:


> But i did end up getting a: Purphoros(*some new players their, so I felt bad for the guy that just wanted a $2 card for it..*), a thoughtseize, a Nytho, and a temple of abandon.



Don't feel bad! It's part of the learning experience of the game to have bad trades. Besides, some people doesn't care about second-hand market, and just want to have cards for their homebrew. I had a guy trade me his foil Varolz back when he just arrived, for a Conjurer's closet. And it was him that made the offer.
I also made the mistake and traded a Hellrider for a Lotleth, a zendikar full-art and some other stuff. 

It would've been scummy if you initiated a bad trade with the intent of ripping off, but as you explain it, it's all good.


----------



## Xaios

I'll be honest, I probably wouldn't have done that. I've seen the damage first hand that can done to a scene when aggressive traders screw new players, regardless of who initiates the trade. I had friends in the scene to protect me from that kind of thing, for which I'm quite grateful, so I didn't have to learn the hard way. Basically, the understanding that everyone has at my LGS now is that we ALL use Starcitygames as the reference point for determining trade value, not because they offer the best price (obviously they don't) but they're the best homogenous source to determine _*relative*_ trading value.

I'm experimenting with substituting the Agent of the Fates in G/B deck for Boon Satyrs. Obviously Boon Satyr is more powerful standalone card in this situation, but I'll still need to test more to determine how adversely it's going to affect my devotion for Gray Merchant, Abhorrent Overlord and Erebos. On the flipside, if I can bestow it onto a Lifebane Zombie in a match in which I'm not playing against black, that'll give me a 7 power attacker with Intimidate.

I've also created a bit of a sideboard:

2x Abrupt Decay
1x Dark Betrayal
1x Doom Blade
3x Mistcutter Hydra
3x Thoughtseize
2x Vraska, the Unseen

...and 3 of some other card which currently escapes me. 

(EDIT: I know there are at least 2 Golgari Charms as well, possibly 3.)

It works okay so far, but I'm trying to figure a way to fit a couple Fade Into Antiquity, in order to deal with Gods.


----------



## Xaios

Re-built my Animar EDH deck, and I gotta say, it's running a LOT smoother now. Some of the newer cards have really benefitted it, and I've also designed it not to be as greedy, which has actually improved things drastically. For example, I took out all the triple-colored-mana creatures like Teferi, Kiki-Jiki and Vigor. Prophet of Kruphix fills Teferi's shoes nicely anyway. 

Had a relatively fun game with it too, at least until we all got annoyed with the guy playing 37-counterspells.dec and we all just scooped. But before that, I managed to get the guy playing Kaalia down to 4 health. He did the honorable thing and cast Boros Charm, targeting himself, especially after realizing that Animar's protecton from black and white made his hand of 5 targeted removal spells completely useless. 

Did some goldfishing too with it last night, just sitting at my computer. One time, I managed to put together an infinite player + creature damage combo by turn 5. It involved an Animar charged with at least 3 counters, Prophet of Kruphix, Purphoros, Urabrask the Hidden, Flametongue Kavu, Bloom Tender and Cloudstone Curio (as well as Zhur-Taa Druid, which allowed me to get Prophet out on turn 4).

How's that for convoluted?


----------



## Asrial

^Niiiice.

I also caved in and bought myself a fatpack.
Got an Ashen rider (straight into my Ghave EDH to replace Sylvan Primordial), a Medomai, a Hythonia and a Thoughtseize. Also took my Erebos and put into Ghave, replacing Death's presence.
So far, Theros have been generous upon my pack pulling luck. 

Now, my newest challenge: to build a winston-cube!


----------



## Xaios

What's the difference between a Winston-Cube and a regular cube?

(I've also been thinking about making a cube lately.)


----------



## Nile

So I was playing standard on Cockatrice with my GW aggro splash black for Varolz. Dude played turbo fog/Maze's End. Just quit because there was nothing I could do vs 16 fog effects and life gain with such an easy combo to put together to straight out win.

It might be wrong of me to say it because its a viable deck, but turbo fog is just pussy. Nothing I can do against it in standard besides play the Assemble the Legion/Purphoros combination deck or Ashiok or some shit.


----------



## Xaios

Here's the Animar decklist for anyone interested in trying it out:

General (1):
- Animar, Soul of Elements

Creatures (54):
- Avenger of Zendikar
- Artisan of Kozilek
- Bloom Tender
- Citanul Hierophants
- Coiling Oracle
- Consecrated Sphinx
- Dawntreader Elk
- Draining Whelk
- Eternal Witness
- Farhaven Elf
- Fathom Mage
- Flametongue Kavu
- Forgotten Ancient
- Heartwood Storyteller
- Gilder Bairn
- Gruul Ragebeast
- Inferno Titan
- Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
- Krosan Tusker
- Loaming Shaman
- Maelstrom Wanderer
- Master Biomancer
- Mercurial Chemister
- Mindclaw Shaman
- Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
- Mulldrifter
- Mystic Snake
- Novigen Sages
- Ogre Battledriver
- Oracle of Mul Daya
- Phyrexian Ingester
- Phyrexian Metamorph
- Prime Speaker Zegana
- Primordial Sage
- Prophet of Kruphix
- Purphoros, God of the Forge
- Sage of Fables
- Sakura-Tribe Elder
- Scuttlemutt
- Seedborn Muse
- Solemn Simulacrum
- Somberwald Sage
- Soul of the Harvest
- Steel Hellkite
- Sylvan Primordial
- Thassa, God of the Sea
- Trygon Predator
- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
- Urabrask the Hidden
- Venser, Shaper Savant
- Vorel of the Hull Clade
- Zameck Guildmage
- Zealous Conscripts
- Zhur-Taa Druid

Artifacts (4):
- Chromatic Lantern
- Cloudstone Curio
- Lightning Greaves
- Sol Ring

Enchantments (2):
- Equilibrium
- Sylvan Library

Instants (2):
- Cyclonic Rift
- Whim of Volrath

Sorceries (2):
- Decimate
- Urban Evolution

Non-Basic Lands (23):
- Alchemist's Refuge
- Breeding Pool
- Command Tower
- Fire-Lit Thicket
- Flooded Grove
- Forbidden Orchard
- Grove of the Burnwillows
- Hinterland Harbor
- Karplusan Forest
- Kessig Wolf Run
- Misty Rainforest
- Raging Ravine
- Rootbound Crag
- Rupture Spire
- Scalding Tarn
- Steam Vents
- Stomping Ground
- Sulfur Falls
- Temple of Abandon
- Temple of Mystery
- Tropical Island
- Yavimaya Coast
- Yavimaya Hollow

Basic Lands (12):
- 5x Forest
- 4x Island
- 3x Mountain

Even though I'm running fewer lands than before, my lower and less greedy curve means the deck is performing better consistently.


----------



## Asrial

Xaios said:


> What's the difference between a Winston-Cube and a regular cube?
> 
> (I've also been thinking about making a cube lately.)



Size.
Winston drafting is a 2-player limited format, where 6 boosters are shuffled together and placed in front of both of you. Then the top 3 cards are placed face down on the table in 3 seperate piles. Player 1 now chooses to look at a pile.
He may choose to take the pile and add it to his pool. If he does, he places the top card from the booster stack where the pile previously was.
He may choose NOT to take the pile. If he does that, he returns it to the pile, then adds a card from the booster stack to that pile. He may then proceed to look at a new pile.
If he chooses not to keep any piles, he takes the top card from the booster stack and adds it to his pool.
Then it's player 2s turn. And on it goes.

So, it's a cube with between 100 and 150 cards.


----------



## Eclipse

Green and white all the wayyyyyyyyyyy.


----------



## Xaios

Came in second at the local provincial championship today. My loss in the final round was to this Simic deck that just came completely out of left field. The guy piloting it though is known for whacky builds that no one sees coming though, and they're often quite effective too. Otherwise I did fine. Made a few modifications again to the G/B deck, no it looks like this:

1x Doom Blade
3x Scavenging Ooze
3x Sylvan Caryatid
4x Hero's Downfall
4x Lifebane Zombie
4x Putrefy
3x Read the Bones
4x Desecration Demon
1x Erebos, God of the Dead
3x Whip of Erebos
3x Gray Merchant of Asphodel
2x Rescue from the Underworld
2x Shadowborn Demon

3x Golgari Guildgate
4x Overgrown Tomb
6x Forest
10x Swamp

SB:
2x Abrupt Decay
1x Doom Blade
3x Golgari Charm
3x Lotleth Troll
3x Mistcutter Hydra
3x Thoughtseize

Leaning things down a bit (and throwing in Lotleth Trolls) definitely helps in the match up against G/W Tokens.


----------



## will_shred

Yo guys, I'm trying to re-learn how to play this game. I just sorted though all my old cards and came up with this Red+Green deck, would like some feedback on it if that's cool. Also, can anyone point me to some good tutorials? I never really learned all the ins and outs of the game, just the basics, and I've forgotten the basics 

Land: x14 Forest, x13 mountain. 

Creatures: Hill Giant, Vulshok Berserker, Slith Firewalker, Keldon Berserker, Goblin Brawler, Spikeshot Goblin, Marsh Boa, Iron-Barb Hellion, Eternal Witness, Patagia Golem, Orge Taskmaster, Tyrranax, Grizzly Bears, Vulshok Sorcerer, Fangren Pathcutter x2, Spark Elemental, Spined Wurm, Tangle Asp, Trained Orgg, Tel-Jilad Lifebreather, Cosmic Larva, Tel-Jilad exile x2, Tel-Jilad chosen, Fangren Hunter, and Llanowar Elves

Spells/instant/Enchantments: Rite of Passage, Lava Ax x2, Calming Verse, Ferocious Charge, Grab the Reins, Monstrous Growth, Tel-Jilad Justice, Rain of Rust, Volcanic Hammer x2, Fog, and Orcish Oriflamme. 

I hope it's not horrible, I looked up some general deck building guidelines and followed them as closely as I could. I'm not exactly planning on playing in tournaments or anything, just for fun with friends. I don't have any non-basic lands or anything.


----------



## Dalcan

Is Friday still the night that anything gets played?


----------



## pink freud

So a bunch of guys wrangled me into getting in on this. Two Amazon gift cards later I have an M14 deckbuilders kit, M14 fat pack and gatecrash fat pack being shipped to me. I'm learning how to play through Loading Ready Run comedy drafts, because those seem pretty legit.


----------



## caskettheclown

anyone else excited for the new commander precons coming out?


----------



## Xaios

caskettheclown said:


> anyone else excited for the new commander precons coming out?



VERY. The new Grixis commander they spoiled today looks quite promising:







Wheels.dec finally has a general.



thisisdoodoobaby said:


> Is Friday still the night that anything gets played?



Yup, Friday Night Magic is by far the most common Wizards-sanctioned event.


----------



## Nile

I need to quit buying so many damn singles.  I spend so much.


----------



## will_shred

I feel like I might have too many high cost cards in my deck, any thoughts on a ratio for low vs high cost cards?


----------



## Nile

Probably take it from this perspective. How many ramp/mana acceleration cards do you run and whats your averaged converted mana cost across all cards.


----------



## will_shred

Nile said:


> Probably take it from this perspective. How many ramp/mana acceleration cards do you run and whats your averaged converted mana cost across all cards.


 
Right on, thanks for the advice  

I've got 12 cards that cost 5+ mana, 15 that are less than 2, and I think about only 11 that are between 3 and 4. I might try and get that number down even more by introducing some more low cost cards in replacing medium cost cards. My thinking being that the lower cost cards would basically be pawns, stalling for time until I have enough mana to bring out the big boys. I also have a number of pretty good medium cost enchantments/spells/instants


----------



## Asrial

Allright!





3x doubling effect in both of my EDH decks? HELL YES!

Also, I've just seen on my LGS' website, that the commander deck pre-order got lowered in price since i placed my order, yet I haven't gotten a notification about the price drop. Should I poke at them and tell them to lower my pre-order price as well? It's about 10$ difference we're talking about here.


----------



## Xaios

Yeah, I'd prod them to lower your pre-order price.

I do have a bit of a problem with some of the spoilers that Wizards have shown off so far for the new Commander set, and in fact a few of the "kitchen table"-centric cards that were obviously made with Commander in mind. For example, there's this new card, Bane of Progress:







Powerful? Absolutely. But it scales to such an insane degree in a multiplayer setting that it becomes absurd. It's basically half of an Austere Command that also gives you a gigantic creature to attack with, for only 1 more mana than an Acidic Slime.

"Rise of the Dark Realms" is another recent offender. Living Death took skill to use in that you either had to use the judicial application of graveyard hate in order to make sure you benefited most, or you had to be sure you could handle the things that your opponents, ALL of them, would get back. Rise of the Dark Realms just feels "wrath the board, ramp to 9 mana (something black excels in with mana doublers like Crypt Ghast, Nirkana Revenant and Urborg+Coffers, not to mention a boatload of tutors), cast."

I'm a bit of a Timmy at heart, but it seems like Wizards caters a LOT more to Timmies than Johnnies nowadays.


----------



## will_shred

wait what the hell is a token? Most of my cards pre-date 2006 so I imagine they're pretty out of date at this point. 


Also, does anyone play MTG online? I'm thinking about signing up, 10 bucks flat gets you full access and 670 cards to play around with. Seems like a good deal, because all I need is another reason to sit in front of my computer all ....ing day


----------



## Xaios

will_shred said:


> wait what the hell is a token? Most of my cards pre-date 2006 so I imagine they're pretty out of date at this point.



A token is simply a permanent that isn't represented by a card (although Wizards does print "token" cards that you can play, but aren't actually part of your deck). For example, if you hit an opponent with this guy...






...you get a 1/1 Soldier creature that is represented by a token. The "token" can by anything, a die, a jewel, or even token cards that Wizards puts into packs:








will_shred said:


> Also, does anyone play MTG online? I'm thinking about signing up, 10 bucks flat gets you full access and 670 cards to play around with. Seems like a good deal, because all I need is another reason to sit in front of my computer all ....ing day



I tried getting into MTGO, but I couldn't. Definitely prefer paper magic.


----------



## will_shred

am I crazy or is wizards online a sham? I made an account, paid the $10, and there's literally no way to download it. When you click the download link, all it does is show you the system requirements. There's no way to download it. 

When I went to their help/customer service page it 404'd on me.


----------



## Xaios

https://accounts.onlinegaming.wizards.com/

Click the Download Now button. At the top of the window that pops up, click "Current Version," unless you want to subject yourself to the Beta of the new version.


----------



## devolutionary

uhh news to me! I played last night? The download link is working totally fine for me;

https://accounts.onlinegaming.wizards.com/


----------



## will_shred

Xaios said:


> https://accounts.onlinegaming.wizards.com/
> 
> Click the Download Now button. At the top of the window that pops up, click "Current Version," unless you want to subject yourself to the Beta of the new version.



I keep clicking on it and nothing is happening  got to the page, clicked current version, about a dozen times, nothing happened what so ever accept it highlighted the text.


----------



## Xaios

will_shred said:


> I keep clicking on it and nothing is happening



Couldn't tell you why it's not working for you. Works fine for me.


----------



## will_shred

Xaios said:


> Couldn't tell you why it's not working for you. Works fine for me.



Edit: see below post


----------



## will_shred

wait, it said that their severs could take up to 4 hours to fully activate my account and allow me to download it.


Edit: Called their customer service hotline, Could not have had better service  real talk.

Double Edit: Holy hell, 699 cards, even including lands making a deck on here is going to make my head spin 

Someone add me on MTG online, WillShred


----------



## Xaios

I decided to give MTGO another run last night, for the first time in a couple years. I learned a valuable "MAKE SURE YOU READ BEFORE YOU CLICK". I was 2-0 in a Theros swiss draft (drafted a hyper-aggressive Boros deck), but I lost the first game of the final match. I went to concede the game after it became apparent I wouldn't win, but I accidentally conceded the entire round! 

Oh well, still 2 free packs. 

Opened some old packs that I still had from Scars or Mirrodin block as well, they were actually decent. The M11 pack had a Leyline of Anticipation, Mirrodin Besieged pack had a Mirran Crusader, and the 2 New Phyrexia packs had a Puresteel Paladin and... a Sword of War and Peace! 

(Honestly can't remember what the SoM pack had, although I don't think it was bad.)


----------



## will_shred

is it me or does it seem like MTGO is really, really buggy?

It will sometimes insist that I don't have the cards for the deck I made... or it won't let me make perfectly legal attacks. 

No matter... it's really interesting to play with people who even have a remote idea of what they're doing. It seems like their decks are usually planned entirely around 2 or 3 cards... The strategy involved in this game is crazy.

Am I wrong in saying that variety is what loses games?


----------



## Xaios

D'oh! For my post about Bane of Progress, I accidentally linked to the image of Primal Vigor.


----------



## will_shred

Alright... So i'm just going to say wizard stole 20 bucks from me. 

It always says that I don't own my cards, or my cards are illegal, or some other bullshit. I use one deck, which I made out of standard cards, the same deck that I used in the 3 or 4 actual games I was able to play (online). There is no possible way that either of those are true. Either some illegal cards and cards I didn't own magically (no pun intended) found their way into my deck, or the game is just really buggy. I even called tech support and they were dumbfounded, they had no idea why that could have been happening.


----------



## WhiteWalls

will_shred said:


> Alright... So i'm just going to say wizard stole 20 bucks from me.
> 
> It always says that I don't own my cards, or my cards are illegal, or some other bullshit. I use one deck, which I made out of standard cards, the same deck that I used in the 3 or 4 actual games I was able to play (online). There is no possible way that either of those are true. Either some illegal cards and cards I didn't own magically (no pun intended) found their way into my deck, or the game is just really buggy. I even called tech support and they were dumbfounded, they had no idea why that could have been happening.



Are you playing on the new beta client? I heard from a lot of players that the new client still has all kinds of bugs, the old one actually works pretty well all things considered.


----------



## Xaios

Wizards spoiled the decklists for all the new Commander decks, and I have to say, HOME RUN. They might not be as powerful as the 2011 Commander precons, but they're loaded with interesting and unique cards, things that make Commander worth playing. The "Tempting Offer" mechanic is also MUCH better than Join Forces.


----------



## caskettheclown

I never liked "join forces" mechanic. Just no thank you wizards.


----------



## ittoa666

Good to know that the jund deck has a reprint of a 70 dollar three kingdoms card.

Also, Baleful Strix.


----------



## Xaios

Yeah, but the reprint won't be worth anywhere near the P3K version price. Just look at Diaochan, Artful Beauty. Her P3K version is worth $80 on SCG. The Commander's Arsenal version, in spite of the rarity of Commander's Arsenal (yes, I got one ) is only worth $6. And Commander 2013 is going to see FAR more printings than Commander's Arsenal.


----------



## ittoa666

Good point. 

Still, good to see the cards getting out there for more everyday use.


----------



## Xaios

Oh yeah, definitely.

A tip: do NOT pay anymore than $30 + tax for these. Right now everyone like Starcity and Channelfireball are capitalizing on fears of short supply. While it's true you might not be able to get them all on day 1, sales for them will be in full swing within a week of release.


----------



## ittoa666

I plan on scoring mine at wal mart. They stock tons of new MTG items.


----------



## pink freud

So I got my cards in the mail. Sorted them and made four decks so far.

Black/Blue mill deck with a dudes who get x/x for each card in opponents graveyard.
Black/White gain life and spawn 4/4 angels deck.
Greed with a red splash that just makes huge creatures.
And a Boros deck.

Even though I have no clue how I should really build these things I think they should be fun at least.


----------



## Brill

You guys seen the new Duel deck that is gonna come out?


----------



## pink freud

Got back from the meet-up (which was a really cool place: Cafe Mox | A Game Parlour A fancy restaurant and a games place all in one, and I'll definitely stick with this game. It's fun. We mostly played multiplayer, which I hadn't prepared for, but that made my Blue/Black Mill deck hilarious once I got out my Consuming Aberration (Gatecrash) - Gatherer - Magic: The Gathering

We were playing 5-person multiplayer, so that Consuming Aberration grew into a 95/95  
http://gatherer.wizards.com/pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=366391


----------



## Xaios

Nice place!


----------



## Asrial

The new duel deck art is... Bad.
Sorry, but that's not art fit for that purpose. All the previous have been about two forces clashing in some sort of awesome way. Here, it's just two entities facing a camera. Jace doesn't even look like Jace!
Also, we had a Golgari-themed deck in the RTR-preview duel decks already, so do we really need another? And Jace is already blue... 3/4 of the original deck setup. Jeez. If Gideon vs. Domri wasn't going to be Boros and Gruul, I would've favored that way more.


----------



## caskettheclown

Jace looks constipated in the art. Vraska looks meh. Art in general looks like crap compared to what they usually put on their products.

Only reason I would get it is cause I missed out on the old JvC duel decks and I legitimately love vraska so getting her in foil would be AWESOME though I love the original artwork so I may hold out to get the foil version of that. 

Also they are pumping out Duel Decks really quickly nowadays it seems like.


----------



## Nile

Especially art from Ravnica/Return to Ravnica I expect it to be sharp looking like most Ravnica basics and such look, not to mention the colors aren't all that vibrant.

0/10, Stasis is superior.


----------



## Xaios

Nile said:


> 0/10, Stasis is superior.



You know you're in trouble when... 

Yeah, it's a weird piece. Although what surprises me most is that they're revisiting a Golgari theme, what with Izzet vs. Golgari having just come out in summer 2012.

Came in 4th place at the Theros Game Day yesterday. Drafted a hyper aggro Boros deck. Alas, the guy I played against in the semi finals was running White/Blue, and had drafted a whole bunch of cheap wall-esque creatures, and I just couldn't seal the deal.

But hey, for my trouble, I drafted a Thoughtseize and a Nykthos. 

Also, bought a box on Saturday, opened a mis-aligned foil Purphoros. Thought that was pretty cool.


----------



## devolutionary

Vintage Masters is out with Power 9 on MTGO in April. Rock.


----------



## ittoa666

So, I got the Grixis commander deck for $30. It's a pretty fun deck that I plan on modding to inflict as much pain as possible through card draw.


----------



## Xaios

My local card shop is doing a release tourney on Sunday. Definitely looking forward to playing it.


----------



## pink freud

Got to mess around with a Slivers deck today. Turn 2 "All Slivers get haste" into turn 3 "All Slivers get double-strike" into turn 4 "All slivers get +2/0" is hilarious.


----------



## Xaios

Rocked the Esper deck at a release event at my shop for the new Commander decks. Came in 1st place. 

Had to pay 32 life towards a Toxic Deluge to survive one game. It brought me down to _3 life_. But I still pulled out the win, clawing my way back. 

And now that I think about it, one of the other players could have TOTALLY killed me that turn if they'd realized it.


----------



## ittoa666

The esper deck is just all kinds of insane.


----------



## caskettheclown

Plan on eventually getting three or four of the commander decks. The grixis one, Jund and Bant one for sure!


----------



## Xaios

ittoa666 said:


> The esper deck is just all kinds of insane.



The Esper deck is slow out of the gate and can be hated out early, but gets stronger than any other deck as the game goes on.

I've acquired the Esper, Jund and Bant decks. I'll probably get the Naya and Grixis decks in a few weeks.

Built a combo-riffic Prossh, Skyraider of Kher deck last night, that general is all kinds of abusable! Seriously, he is a COMBO MACHINE of the same order as Ghave, Guru of Spores. A few of the cards he's positively retarded with:

- Food Chain
- Earthcraft
- Ashnod's Altar
- Phyrexian Altar
- Purphoros, God of War
- Warstorm Surge
- Vicious Shadows
- Ogre Battledriver
- In the Web of War
- Doubling Season
- Parallel Lives
- Goblin Bombardment
- Grave Pact
- Butcher of Malakir
- Coat of Arms
- Eldrazi Monument
- Altar of Dementia
- Champion of Lambholt
- Craterhoof Behemoth
- Skullclamp
- Slate of Ancestry

I'll post a decklist later on.


----------



## Xaios

Played 2 games with Prossh tonight. Bricked the first game because my land kept getting blown up by Decimate and Sylvan Primordial. However, I tabled the second game when I top decked Food Chain with Prossh and his company of tokens on the field and Goblin Bombardment in hand. I made infinite tokens with Prossh + Food Chain, then sacrificed them to Goblin Bombardment to kill everyone at once. So I can attest to the fact that the combos in this deck definitely work. It's a powerful enough deck that I probably won't pull it out often.

Also got another table kill with Animar. Booya!

I do plan to cut some of the more "goodstuff"-y cards in the deck in order to make it more consistent. For example, powerful as Sheoldred is, I'd rather have an enabler of some sort. Also, bonkers though Sylvan Primordial might be (yes, he is), I'm just really getting tired of seeing him. He shows up EVERYWHERE and tends to just suck the joy out of everything.


----------



## ittoa666

Yeah, I stopped playing sylvan months ago just because it's so boring.


----------



## Asrial

Sylvan was my go to "OH SH-" button, but he's just too toxic on the politics and doesn't ramp enough in my Ghave deck where he previously resided.

Sylvan is now replaced by Ashen rider to GREAT succes!


----------



## Xaios

Asrial said:


> Sylvan was my go to "OH SH-" button, but he's just too toxic on the politics and doesn't ramp enough in my Ghave deck where he previously resided.
> 
> Sylvan is now replaced by Ashen rider to GREAT succes!



See, if you're running Ghave, you should be running Woodfall Primus FOR TEH KOMBOS anyway.


----------



## Asrial

Xaios said:


> See, if you're running Ghave, you should be running Woodfall Primus FOR TEH KOMBOS anyway.



Woodfall primus only destroys with a single trigger, and has to target a noncreature. Ashen rider exiles on two triggers, no restrictions. Both tutorable by the same means, and while Ashen needs Mikaeus to combo, she just wrecks that much harder.


----------



## Xaios

Asrial said:


> Woodfall primus only destroys with a single trigger, and has to target a noncreature. Ashen rider exiles on two triggers, no restrictions. Both tutorable by the same means, and while Ashen needs Mikaeus to combo, she just wrecks that much harder.



That's true, her effect is more potent. However, Woodfall Primus can combo a) with Mikaeus, b) with just Ghave, c) with Cathars' Crusade, and d) with Juniper Order Ranger. And generally, once you've blown up all of someone's land and make it obvious that you can keep doing it, they'll recognize that still having their creatures doesn't really help them very much. 

Are you running the classic Mike & Trike combo too?


----------



## Xaios

This is the Prossh list I came up with:

General (1):
- Prossh, Skyraider of Kher

Planeswalkers (2):
- Garruk Relentless
- Sarkhan Vol

Creatures (22):
- Bloodgift Demon
- Bloodline Keeper
- Burnished Hart
- Butcher of Malakir
- Champion of Lambholt
- Craterhoof Behemoth
- Creakwood Liege
- Eternal Witness
- Farhaven Elf
- Kamahl, Fist of Krosa
- Masked Admirers
- Mycoloth
- Ophiomancer
- Phyrexian Plaguelord
- Purphoros, God of the Forge
- Sadistic Hypnotist
- Sakura-Tribe Elder
- Shattergang Brothers
- Somberwald Sage
- Sylvan Primordial
- Viscera Seer
- Yavimaya Elder

Artifacts (7):
- Birthing Pod
- Carnage Altar
- Chromatic Lantern
- Coat of Arms
- Helm of Possession
- Phyrexian Altar
- Sol Ring

Enchantments (16):
- Attrition
- Beastmaster Ascension
- Doubling Season
- Earthcraft
- Fecundity
- Food Chain
- Goblin Bombardment
- In the Web of War
- Parallel Lives
- Pernicious Deed
- Phyrexian Arena
- Phyrexian Reclamation
- Survival of the Fittest
- Underworld Connections
- Vicious Shadows
- Warstorm Surge

Instants (5):
- Beast Within
- Chaos Warp
- Krosan Grip
- Putrefy
- Terminate

Sorceries (10):
- Cultivate
- Decree of Pain
- Demonic Tutor
- Diabolic Revelation
- Harmonize
- Jarad's Orders
- Lavalanche
- Maelstrom Pulse
- Restock
- Savage Twister

Non-Basic Lands (26):
- Arid Mesa
- Barren Moor
- Bayou
- Blood Crypt
- Command Tower
- Dragonskull Summit
- Forbidden Orchard
- Kher Keep
- Jund Panorama
- Lavaclaw Reaches
- Llanowar Wastes
- Marsh Flats
- Misty Rainforest
- Overgrown Tomb
- Raging Ravine
- Reflecting Pool
- Reliquary Tower
- Rootbound Crag
- Savage Lands
- Stomping Ground
- Sulfurous Springs
- Temple of Abandon
- Tranquil Thicket
- Twilight Mire
- Verdant Catacombs
- Woodland Cemetery

Basic Lands (11):
- 4x Forest
- 4x Mountain
- 3x Swamp


----------



## Discoqueen

Would you guys mind answering a question I have? I want to get the Psychic Labrynth stater pack and upgrade it to this:
Psychic Labyrinth (Mod) Deck | MTG Vault

I kind of want to add a plainswalker, though, and I found a card called Tamiyo, the Moon Sage and I'd like to use it but I am not sure if it is still standard, since I have to keep the deck standard to play with my friends I thought I'd check. I know Avacyn Restored is not on the current standard list but do Plainswalkers rotate out of standard?


----------



## Xaios

Yes, Planeswalkers rotate out of Standard just like any other card. Tamiyo is not legal for Standard play.


----------



## Discoqueen

That's a shame, thanks man.


----------



## caskettheclown

I miss playing tamiyo when I played Standard. She won me LOTS of games. Especially when I had one on the board and one in my hand. Ultimate her and BOOM slap her down again via the one in my hand.


----------



## Brill

Just scored 4 of the mind seize commander deck for $40 each. Should have my play set of True-Name Nemesis and Baleful Strix


----------



## DoomJazz

I have been under pressure from my friends to play this game, and being a former YGO player, Im down, but my concern is the game not being profitable.


----------



## Nile

Profitable in what way?


----------



## Jzbass25

DoomJazz said:


> I have been under pressure from my friends to play this game, and being a former YGO player, Im down, but my concern is the game not being profitable.



I picked it up again a few years ago and played for about a year, I made about $2k but it came down to luck + winning small tourny's and at least placing in big/pro tourny's (obv I didn't have many pro tour points though). My money making also relied on being good at selling and trading and speculating the card market. My first pack I pulled a card worth about $100 so I think luck was on my side, I will say though that it seems like there haven't been as many "money" cards in the recent sets so making quick cash won't be as easy unless you get tons of pro tour points and win cash prizes


----------



## Nile

I don't know if cracking packs is where you should go about making money unless your doing it as a sort of retailer. There has been plenty of standard money cards in M14 and Theros and legacy/modern playables like Voice of Resurgence and such. Tournaments offer more in terms of profit imo but if your good at buying/selling/trading then sure then there is some profit. I know I've done it with eBay.

Foil Submerge for 99 cents that I sold for $22, playset of Natural Order for $84 and sold them for $110, playset of japanese duel decks Ancestral Visions for $14 that I still need to sell.

And then me and a friend have each split costs on two collections on eBay, one being a huge Urza lot with a few playables but the payout was the four boosters we sold for $75 and the junk for $20. Made like $20 dollars but got some playables out of it. (dad bought the packs and opened a Show and Tell, we would have been behind if we opened them after all.)

Second lot we spent $143 and the collection was worth like ~$600. Sold the Lorwyn Thoughtseize, Horizon Canopy, foil Akroma, Angel of Fury and a few other things and that pretty much recouped our cost right there. Each made off with some $10 uncommons and whatnot, bunch of few dollar rares and stuff, total of 3 Damnation and 3 Urborg, Tomb of Yargmoth, that of which 1 of each are still in cube and we are going to have to fight over them. I got a foil Daybreak Coronet with some clouding and he got foil 10th Arcanis, the Omnipotent. Then theres a shit ton of commons/uncommons from Planar Chaos and Mirage. Mirage has so must dust on it from sitting it felt like sand.


----------



## DoomJazz

I caved, I bought the Theros event deck and some boosters... Time to refine a shitty heroic control deck...


----------



## pink freud

I just had the most entertaining game...







And 






Most hilarious combo ever.


----------



## Xaios

Did you actually pull that off in Standard?


----------



## caskettheclown

That combo is brutally hilarious! Thank you for showing me that! Made my day!


----------



## Nile

Ha that's great.


----------



## Xaios

Played Standard at FNM last night for the first time in a few weeks after retooling my B/G deck. Went 4-0.

Got 2 kills with...


PACK RAT!


----------



## caskettheclown

Killing with pack rat is METAL!!


Just changed my R/W Gisela commander deck to a monowhite deck. Using Iona Shield of Emeria/Akroma as the commander at the moment. Still swapping a lot of stuff out and figuring out what I want to do with it. Any idea? (Keep it reasonable budget wise plz)


----------



## Nile

Goodstuff.dec


----------



## works0fheart

I used to be super into MTG but I just never have as much time for it now as I once did. Every now and then I still hop on cockatrice and give it a try. I haven't really payed much attention to the new releases after Avacyn Restored. I think that's one of the only thing that kills magic for me is how quickly sets are released. If you really want to keep your deck up to par you have to be constantly dropping money on cards...


----------



## caskettheclown

works0fheart said:


> I used to be super into MTG but I just never have as much time for it now as I once did. Every now and then I still hop on cockatrice and give it a try. I haven't really payed much attention to the new releases after Avacyn Restored. I think that's one of the only thing that kills magic for me is how quickly sets are released. If you really want to keep your deck up to par you have to be constantly dropping money on cards...



Try modern or legacy. its a little more expensive to get into but they don't have any rotating sets or anything. Things just keep getting added and thats it.


----------



## works0fheart

Yeah, I play Legacy online against people but I feel like I see the same decks over and over. Elf-mana ramp decks, Smokestack, Goblin-ramps, or things of that sort. Some of those old cards are really expensive too. Every now and then I look up the prices on the old Mox (Mox sapphire, mox opal, etc.) cards to see what they're going for and it's hilarious lol.


----------



## caskettheclown

Legacy is pretty nuts, modern is a bit more diverse I think though but its still expensive.

I love legacy but I hate playing against a "Turn one, you lose GG" type decks. Even though I have a storm deck that can do turn three kills with relative consistency


----------



## works0fheart

Yeah, I feel like those elf decks are just too OP to even try to put up a fight against. Normally there's an Eldrazi out by the 2nd turn, normally Emrakul, and that's pretty much game...


----------



## Brill

Legacy is So fun. I'm a big Death and Taxes fan. thinking of building a deck, then I see the price of the land base and I feel sad...


----------



## Nile

Let's re-up this thread. Just paid the rest of the $115 to frame this.


----------



## Eclipse

^^^ Pretty cool stuff!


----------



## Slayer89

So, I'm attempting Standard again. I'd dropped out of it for a bit simply because the Devotion decks are so boring and linear and I've been playing Esper far too long. After seeing Matt Costa's Jund list, though, I'm back. Thing is it's taking basically my whole extra collection to get it together, haha.


----------



## Brill

Slayer89 said:


> So, I'm attempting Standard again. I'd dropped out of it for a bit simply because the Devotion decks are so boring and linear and I've been playing Esper far too long. After seeing Matt Costa's Jund list, though, I'm back. Thing is it's taking basically my whole extra collection to get it together, haha.



Aren't we all sick of jund too lol? Power house in modern, Legacy, and last standard format...
I'm a big fan of the Kibler B/G midrange/aggro deck, and I like the red in it for some cards, but they seem to just fall to so many other decks. having actual spells is weird in this format.


----------



## ittoa666

I've personally been messing with junk splash blue reanimator. Centaur Healer has awesome synergy with rescue from the underworld, and bringing in an ashen rider turn 5 is ridiculous.


----------



## Slayer89

Loxodrome said:


> Aren't we all sick of jund too lol? Power house in modern, Legacy, and last standard format...
> I'm a big fan of the Kibler B/G midrange/aggro deck, and I like the red in it for some cards, but they seem to just fall to so many other decks. having actual spells is weird in this format.



Yeah, but Jund is pretty different this season. No Thragtusk makes things really different. It's a lot of fun and has a good bit of play to it. It's nice to be playing a deck setup to disrupt plans as opposed to one that does nothing but follow the same plan every time.


----------



## pink freud

Won a game at 50 life, NBD:






Playing against Boros, stabilized at 2 life


----------



## UV7BK4LIFE

Nile said:


> I don't know if cracking packs is where you should go about making money unless your doing it as a sort of retailer.



True. You'll have to become a retailer, or know where to get a few cases with a huge discount.

Retailers pay around $60 for a box, consumers more like $75 to $85. On top of that, you'll have to start cracking cases. (1 case = 6 boxes = 216 booster packs) That will guarantee you all the rares x4, and the necessary bomb mythics and foil rares/mythics that you'll need to cover the costs. For a consumer, that's an investment of $450 for each set that comes out.

When you've sold all the hot rares, you'll be at break even or slightly over. All the crap that remains is 100% profit. You will need room in your house for some 40,000 cards though


----------



## Nile

UV7BK4LIFE said:


> True. You'll have to become a retailer, or know where to get a few cases with a huge discount.
> 
> Retailers pay around $60 for a box, consumers more like $75 to $85. On top of that, you'll have to start cracking cases. (1 case = 6 boxes = 216 booster packs) That will guarantee you all the rares x4, and the necessary bomb mythics and foil rares/mythics that you'll need to cover the costs. For a consumer, that's an investment of $450 for each set that comes out.
> 
> When you've sold all the hot rares, you'll be at break even or slightly over. All the crap that remains is 100% profit. You will need room in your house for some 40,000 cards though



This entire series is amazing. Tells you everything in depth and everything. Extremely in depth about eBay.


----------



## Brill

So I've tried my hand at modern. It's a fun little 5 colour meathooks deck (Slivers). I find it quite fun, and quite fast. It kind of functions like Merfolk, with out counterspells, and multi coloured. The lords just overwhelm an Opponent, and make all my guys a formidable threat in the later game, and puts pressure on decks to clear them fast.
The list is:
*Lords(16)*
Sedge Sliver _x 4_
Phantasmal Image _x 4_
Predatory Sliver x_ 4_
Sinew Sliver _x 4_
*Regular Slivers (22)*
Two-Headed Sliver _x 3_
Necrotic Sliver _x 3 _
Striking Sliver _x 4_
Galerider Sliver _x 4_
Syphon Sliver _x 4_
Aether Vial _x 4_
*Land (22)
*Cavern Of Souls _x 4_
Ancient Ziggurat _x 4_
Mutavault x 3
Urborg, Tomb Of Yawgmoth _x 4_
Marsh Flats _x 2_
Godless Shrine _x 1_
Overgrown Tomb _x 1_
Sacred Foundry _x 1_
Watery Grave _x 1 _
Steam vents _x 1_

It's a really fun and good, only thing I don't like is missing the muscle sliver, and some sort of Shroud or hexproof sliver. It just seems to Be a bit weak. The Sedge Sliver seem to be kinda of both.. the regenerate is reasonable, its why I run 4 Urborgs..
I haven't played against a Blood moon yet, but I'm sure that might kill the deck, I'm thinking of adding the Harmonic Slivers to the sideboard, or maybe even main board.. The Necrotic Sliver doesn't do much, so I might end up taking them out.

What do you people think?


----------



## Nile

Wait a second, four Urborg? Four could be too many, especially with needing to sack one to play another. You should really be fine with fetch lands to get you swamp.

Syphon Sliver doesn't do as much as it should for jamming 4 but I could be wrong and probably am.

Harmonic Slivers are also great sideboard tech. Blood Moon wrecks shit.

Thalia could be tech.

One Urborg for another fetchland? Horizon Canopy maybe?

Dismember/Path to Exile for creature removal if needed for pod and such possibly.


----------



## Brill

Nile said:


> Wait a second, four Urborg? Four could be too many, especially with needing to sack one to play another. You should really be fine with fetch lands to get you swamp.
> 
> Syphon Sliver doesn't do as much as it should for jamming 4 but I could be wrong and probably am.
> 
> Harmonic Slivers are also great sideboard tech. Blood Moon wrecks shit.
> 
> Thalia could be tech.
> 
> One Urborg for another fetchland? Horizon Canopy maybe?
> 
> Dismember/Path to Exile for creature removal if needed for pod and such possibly.


I really like the syphons, that being said, I can see myself cutting them down to 3, in favour of something else, maybe another two-headed sliver. 
I think it needs more protection, so I might add a main deck Golgari Charm or two. 
I thinkCanopy would be good over a 4th urborg. nut idk, I've never had 2 urborgs in my hand and lost.even though its a dead card i can add a mana, and then play another.


----------



## pink freud

Running an all slivers deck?

DOOR OF DESTINIES.

My modern slivers deck has two. It's also primarily R/W/G, so I run 4x Jungle Shrine, and some vivid lands for splashing.

Also, it's expensive, but Toxin Sliver. Because double-strike, flying, trample, lifelink isn't as good as double-strike, flying, trample, lifelink and deathtouch.


----------



## Nile

Except he is the aggressive player with slivers and will most of the time have stronger creatures than an opponent or evasion. His creatures should most of the time outclass the opponent's.

Door of Destinies is a good later game card when it has some counters but dead when you draw into it later. Not to mention Vial doesn't work with it. Coat of Arms is probably more playable in that sense since for one more it's an instant effect and is exponential.


----------



## Nile

Just got two numbered and signed lithographs from Legends. Hurkyl's Recall and Divine Transformation. Old as balls and can't find info for shit on them. Also a lenticular Betrayer's of Kamigawa display sign where these samurai get their heads cut off. Awesome.
Magic The Gathering | eBay
Magic The Gathering | eBay
MTG Display Levticuler Motion Betrayers of Kamigawa 9 x 12 | eBay


----------



## pink freud

In other news I got Time Warp and Panoptic Mirror in the mail today. I have _plans..._


----------



## Nile

pink freud said:


> In other news I got Time Warp and Panoptic Mirror in the mail today. I have _plans..._



Cheaty Face Mc Cheater.

Speaking of which I have yet to put my other three Time Warps on eBay.


----------



## Xaios

pink freud said:


> In other news I got Time Warp and Panoptic Mirror in the mail today. I have _plans..._



Hope those aren't EDH plans, because Panoptic Mirror is banned as .....


----------



## Asrial

Xaios said:


> Hope those aren't EDH plans, because Panoptic Mirror is banned as .....



Now, here's a rules objection!
Since EDH isn't a sanctioned format, you can't really enforce a banlist. The WotC-approved banlist is made by a small fanbase of the format, who found certain cards too degenerate. If your playgroup agrees upon it, you can totally abandon the rules, who most certainly are just guidelines, and play whatever you like. A lot of playgroupes does this, and allows cards like Primeval titan and Protean hulk, or allow certain cards to be commanders, like the Nephilim-cycle from the original Ravnica.

Besides, if not abused, Panoptic mirror can do some truly fun stuff. Who said kicked Rite of Replication targetting Precursor golem?


----------



## Nile

I think he knew that.


----------



## pink freud

Xaios said:


> Hope those aren't EDH plans, because Panoptic Mirror is banned as .....



Nope, just for the just-for-funsies me and my friends play.

I stuck them in a deck that also has a ton of mill. Increasing Confusion, Keening Stone, Sands of Delirium, Traumatize... Add in some art-lands and Tezz and I think this should make people head -> desk to a satisfying amount.


----------



## Xaios

Asrial said:


> Now, here's a rules objection! Since EDH isn't a sanctioned format, you can't really enforce a banlist.



That's true. However, EDH is also supposed to be a "social format" where playgroups develop their own style. In the absence of that, however, pretty much everyone defaults back to the RC's ban-list. Also, in my experience, even if playergroups ban other cards within a group, they almost invariably maintain the RC's list as well.



Asrial said:


> The WotC-approved banlist is made by a small fanbase of the format, who found certain cards too degenerate.



Actually, the banlist has nothing to do with WotC. The banlist is administered by the EDH Rules Committee, IE the people who _originally created_ the format. When EDH became an "official casual format," WotC gave the RC carte blanche to keep doing whatever they wanted.



Asrial said:


> If your playgroup agrees upon it, you can totally abandon the rules, who most certainly are just guidelines, and play whatever you like. A lot of playgroupes does this, and allows cards like Primeval titan and Protean hulk, or allow certain cards to be commanders, like the Nephilim-cycle from the original Ravnica.



No objections there, although Protean Hulk is _super_ easy to abuse.



Asrial said:


> Besides, if not abused, Panoptic mirror can do some truly fun stuff. Who said kicked Rite of Replication targetting Precursor golem?



Again, that's true. The reason it was banned though was because, basically anytime it was used in EDH, it created "oops, I win" situations. It was a card that, _in theory_, had all kinds of great casual uses but in practice was only ever used for one thing: infinite turns.


----------



## pink freud

Xaios said:


> Again, that's true. The reason it was banned though was because, basically anytime it was used in EDH, it created "oops, I win" situations. It was a card that, _in theory_, had all kinds of great casual uses but in practice was only ever used for one thing: infinite turns.



You could also use it in some way to generate infinite mana I bet to do various things with.


----------



## loqtrall

Just found this thread...I used to play recently, and just lost interest in the game. Now I have a shit ton of cards laying around .-.


----------



## Nile

loqtrall said:


> Just found this thread...I used to play recently, and just lost interest in the game. Now I have a shit ton of cards laying around .-.



I'll help you with that space. Give them to me.


----------



## pink freud

loqtrall said:


> Just found this thread...I used to play recently, and just lost interest in the game. Now I have a shit ton of cards laying around .-.



If you have any that have the name "Black Lotus" or "Time Walk" they are pretty worthless, but I'd gladly give a dollar for each


----------



## UV7BK4LIFE

pink freud said:


> If you have any that have the name "Black Lotus" or "Time Walk" they are pretty worthless, but I'd gladly give a dollar for each


 
I wonder how many people don't know about Summer Edition cards. I recently saw a near mint Summer Edition Fireball sell for 350,-.


----------



## Brill

UV7BK4LIFE said:


> I wonder how many people don't know about Summer Edition cards. I recently saw a near mint Summer Edition Fireball sell for 350,-.


yeah but like.
why have a weird fireball when you can have a vintage playable card?


----------



## loqtrall

Yeah, I've pretty much gotten out of the game (nobody around here plays it anymore and I'm wayyyy too far of a drive away from somewhere to play with other people), so I'm stuck with these sitting around, not to mention the boxes I left over at my friend/neighbor's house..


----------



## Nile

Brill said:


> yeah but like.
> why have a weird fireball when you can have a vintage playable card?



Because you have something that will be rarer than any other vintage playable card you can think of. It is a collectible more than a playable.


----------



## Nile

I've played like 12 games with a Modern Merfolk list I made. Pretty damn good against GR Tron and this green/defender/devotion/ramp deck. Only problems vs Tron is you're relying on Spreading Seas to do work on the lands/get islandwalk through when they do have a creature and freaking Pyroclasm. Otherwise it's up to straight bounce spells in the form of Vapor Snag, Steel Sabotage and Hurkyl's Recall.

White splashable?

Cosi's Trickster/third Master of Waves killable for whatever.

2 Cosi's Trickster
4 Cursecatcher
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
2 Merrow Reejerey
2 Phantasmal Image
3 Master of Waves
2 Spellskite

4 AEther Vial
4 Spreading Seas
4 Vapor Snag

16 Island
4 Mutavault
1 Cavern of Souls

SB: 2 Hibernation-Green heavy decks/Auras
SB: 2 Hurkyl's Recall-Tron and Affinity
SB: 3 Steel Sabotage-See Hurkyl's Recall
SB: 3 Grafdigger's Cage-Pod
SB: 2 Tidebinder Mage-Jund/RUG/GW/Tarmogoyf.dec or whatever variations there are
SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt-Pod
SB: 1 Threads of Disloyalty-See Tidebinder Mage/Mirror
SB: 1 Spellskite-Auras (auto-win)/removal heavy decks


----------



## Brill

What does everyone think of Kiora?


----------



## pink freud

Brill said:


> What does everyone think of Kiora?



+1, single target Fog.
-1, Urban Evolution for 1 card.
-5, big fatty every turn.

CMC 4 and comes in at 2, immediately goes to 3.

The way I see it, if I'm playing against red-burn chances are she's a very expensive inefficient Fog. Against any other opponent she would be great if (lol, "if") I'm playing control and give my opponent only one creature capable of attacking. That's the only way I see the ult going off.

She has promise in 1v1 EDH for all the Derevi players.


----------



## caskettheclown

girlfriend got me the esper commander deck so i'm excited to try it out tonight!


----------



## pink freud

OK, which one of you is this on reddit?

Mogis, God of the Death Metal : magicTCG







Brilliant!


----------



## samdaman87

pink freud said:


> OK, which one of you is this on reddit?
> 
> Mogis, God of the Death Metal : magicTCG
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brilliant!


That is one bad Maurder right there! Whats the name of the band?


----------



## Xaios

Holy ....!


----------



## Asrial

^That thing is going into my Thromok EDH deck, and that can't go fast enough!


----------



## Nats

I play regularly with my coworker at lunch on Fridays. She has gotten really good in a short amount of time. She's always buying cards and tweaking her decks. I can't be bothered trying to collect and construct decks so I just buy the event decks that come out with each block and play with those. Tons of Friday fun.


----------



## Xaios

Well folks, we're getting a movie. Straight from the horse's mouth.

Twentieth Century Fox and Hasbro to Develop Magic: The Gathering As a New Film Franchise | company.wizards.com


----------



## ittoa666

Totally just picked up a revised volcanic island for my Riku deck. I'm a happy guy


----------



## Xaios

Noice.


----------



## Slayer89

Pretty skeptical about this movie series, but keeping my hopes up.

In other news, just picked up a Mind Seize deck at Target. Gonna sell the TNN to Channel Fireball for what I paid for the deck and get 99 free cards.


----------



## UV7BK4LIFE

I played a draft last friday, first since a loooong time, at my local game store and had a good laugh with a really insane play. 

So the first game I played, I steal his Agent of the Fates with Portent of Betrayal, scrying a land that I put on the bottom of my deck. Then enchant it with Dragon Mantle, draw a card from the Mantle, wich is a Magma Jet, Then he had to sac his Nessian Asp to his own agent. I pump the agent to four, then attack.

Then on my next turn, I killed his Agent with the Magma Jet I drew and then kept pushing a bunch of giants into the red zone for the win.

I don't draft every week, and a lot of players in my lgs go to PTQ's, GP's, and even Pro Tours, so I expected to lose every match and game. But I went 2-0 win, 2-1 win, then 1-2 loss, taking 3rd place, and won 2 boosters as a prize.  My deck was pretty insane, with Purphoros, the Hammer of Purphoros, 4 giants with monstrous, 2 wild celebrants, lightning strike, magma jet, and a portent of betrayal.


----------



## pink freud

Any of you signed up for the prerelease? I'm going to the last event (Sunday evening). Hopefully going Blue.


----------



## Xaios

pink freud said:


> Any of you signed up for the prerelease? I'm going to the last event (Sunday evening). Hopefully going Blue.



But of course. Signed up for three pre-release events: two regular sealed and one 2HG sealed.

For the randomness, I packed this a while back:


----------



## UV7BK4LIFE

Purphoros, he's awesome! I'm just done building the most filthy degenerate EDH deck with Purphoros as general. 

Basically it's about him, some planeswalkers, a bunch of persist/undying guys, and some enchantments. And then you cast this:






or this











So basically most of my non-land permanents will dodge these sweepers  With some luck you get to keep enough permanents for devotion, then swing for some general damage.


----------



## pink freud

Don't people do that with Jhoira? Suspend a wrath and an Eldrazi, then 1 to 4 turns later they win. 

I'm trying _really _hard to get my playgroup to start up commander. I have an Oona faerie tribal deck just itching to get played. 

As an aside, since my local football team is actually doing well this year my work buddies wanted to reschedule our event for Saturday midnight. Fvck that, I'm doing TWO events now


----------



## Xaios

Purphoros is crazy good in EDH in any deck that can make a measurable number of tokens. My Animar deck killed the entire table once, doing 42 damage in ONE turn with a combination of Purphoros and other creatures, such as Avenger of Zendikar.

Wizards just spoiled Phenax, the Blue/Black God. Surprise, surprise, he's mill-based. Basically he lets you tap your creatures to mill your opponent for that creature's toughness. A LOT of people are crying tears of hate for Wizards, but I think it has potential synergy with the "Inspired" mechanic that does stuff when creatures untap.


----------



## pink freud

Xaios said:


> Purphoros is crazy good in EDH in any deck that can make a measurable number of tokens. My Animar deck killed the entire table once, doing 42 damage in ONE turn with a combination of Purphoros and other creatures, such as Avenger of Zendikar.
> 
> Wizards just spoiled Phenax, the Blue/Black God. Surprise, surprise, he's mill-based. Basically he lets you tap your creatures to mill your opponent for that creature's toughness. A LOT of people are crying tears of hate for Wizards, but I think it has potential synergy with the "Inspired" mechanic that does stuff when creatures untap.



Ooh, Wall of Frost mill deck...

And my Consuming Aberrations are even more terrifying now


----------



## Xaios

pink freud said:


> Ooh, Wall of Frost mill deck...
> 
> And my Consuming Aberrations are even more terrifying now



Oh, good heavens. 

Honestly, I don't know if I'll be buying any boxes of Born of the Gods. Cool as some of the cards seem, the value doesn't seem to be there. There only seems to be 1-2 standard playable mythics, same with rares, while having a whole host of awesome uncommons, and almost nothing with eternal appeal. It's like Dark Ascension 2.

Speaking of Dark Ascension, my foil "Thalia, Guardian of Thraben"s are each worth $25 now. Only Legacy-playable rare in the whole set, glad I held on to mine. Got them in packs, too. They're worth more than any foil mythic rare from Dark Ascension.


----------



## pink freud

So, just had the best game ever.

T1: Reliquary Tower, Sol Ring
T2: Seat of the Synod, Fog Bank
T3: Island, Tezzeret, -0 Tezz to search up Seat of the Synod
T4: Island
T5: Tap everything, +1 Tezz to untap Sol Ring and a SotS, tap again, Omniscience
T6: Enter the Infinite  -> Traumatize -> Keening Stone -> Dance


----------



## Xaios

XD

I had a great game of EDH last night. I was playing the Derevi, Empyrial Tactician deck that I recently built for the the first time. Also at the table is Prossh Combo/Tokens, Vorel Counters and Tajic Land Destruction. Among others, I control Mikaeus, the Lunarch, Aura Shards, and my general Derevi.

Tajic, who has a bunch of mana rocks in play but only 2 lands, casts Impending Disaster, then passes the turn to Prossh. Prossh, who doesn't relish the idea of losing all the lands he ramped into, casts Triumph of the Hordes and comes knocking with his 30 tokens, about half of which are 0/1 plant tokens from Avenger of Zendikar (which he totally misplayed by blowing all his ramp before casting Avenger). Tajic, however, casts Holy Day. Whodathunk?

So, seeing that this is a perfect opportunity for me, I then proceed to cast Flurry of Wings before combat ends, gaining me 30 flying 1/1 bird tokens. My Aura Shards blows up Impending Disaster, all of Tajic's mana rocks, and every other artifact and enchantment I don't control, including a bunch of artifacts that Vorel was working on.

Prossh ends his turn, and passes to Vorel. Vorel hasn't had a great game, so the only thing he can double with Vorel's ability is Phantom Nantuko. Finally, the turn comes to me. Off the top of my deck, I peel Wargate. I then proceed to cast it with X = 6, tutoring True Conviction into play. I swing with my 30 1/1 bird tokens at Vorel (my group plays open spell range but attack-right/defend-left, so I couldn't go for Prossh yet). First strike damage happens first. I get 30 triggers from Derevi. I use them all to untap Mikaeus, getting 15 +1/+1 counters on all my other creatures through cycling his abilities back and forth. Then, regular damage happens, dealing another 480 damage to Vorel. He is quite dead, needless to say. I then proceeded to go around the rest of the table.

Felt pretty good!

EDIT: Here's the decklist I'm working with. There are a couple cards that I'm still trying to work into the deck, I just don't know what to cut.

General (1):
- Derevi, Empyrial Tactician

Planeswalkers (1):
- Venser, the Sojourner

Creatures (30):
- Bloom Tender
- Cold-Eyed Selkie
- Consecrated Sphinx
- Deadeye Navigator (Foil)
- Edric, Spymaster of Trest (Foil)
- Empress Galina
- Eternal Witness
- Galepowder Mage
- Invisible Stalker
- Jenara, Asura of War
- Master Biomancer
- Mikaeus, the Lunarch
- Mistmeadow Witch
- Noble Hierarch
- Oracle of Mul Daya
- Phyrexian Metamorph
- Prime Speaker Zegana
- Qasali Pridemage
- Restoration Angel
- Roon of the Hidden Realm
- Sakashima's Student
- Sakura-Tribe Elder
- Serra Ascendant
- Solemn Simulacrum
- Stoic Angel
- Stonecloaker
- Stoneforge Mystic
- Sun Titan
- Thassa, God of the Sea
- Trygon Predator

Artifacts (10):
- Basalt Monolith
- Bident of Thassa
- Champion's Helm
- Chromatic Lantern
- Crystal Shard
- Grim Monolith
- Lightning Greaves
- Sol Ring
- Sword of Feast and Famine
- Sword of Fire and Ice

Enchantments (7):
- Aura Shards
- Glare of Subdual
- Mirari's Wake
- Mystic Remora
- Opposition
- Sylvan Library
- True Conviction

Instants (10):
- Bant Charm
- Cyclonic Rift
- Dismantling Blow
- Flurry of Wings
- Momentary Blink
- Path to Exile
- Return to Dust
- Spell Crumple
- Swords to Plowshares
- Voidslime

Sorceries (5):
- Borrowing 100,000 Arrows
- Cultivate
- Urban Evolution
- Wargate
- Wrath of God

Non-Basic Lands (28):
- Adarkar Wastes
- Bant Panorama
- Breeding Pool
- Celestial Colonnade
- Command Tower
- Eiganjo Castle
- Flooded Strand
- Forbidden Orchard
- Gavony Township
- Glacial Fortress
- Hallowed Fountain
- High Market
- Hinterland Harbor
- Lonely Sandbar
- Misty Rainforest
- Mystic Gate
- Razorverge Thicket
- Rupture Spire
- Seaside Citadel 
- Secluded Steppe
- Stirring Wildwood
- Sunpetal Grove
- Temple Garden
- Temple of Mystery
- Tranquil Thicket
- Tropical Island
- Vitu-Ghazi, the City-Tree
- Yavimaya Coast

Basic Lands (8):
- 2x Forest
- 4x Island
- 2x Plains


----------



## UV7BK4LIFE

Xaios said:


> Purphoros is crazy good in EDH in any deck that can make a measurable number of tokens. My Animar deck killed the entire table once, doing 42 damage in ONE turn with a combination of Purphoros and other creatures, such as Avenger of Zendikar.
> .





Xaios said:


> Honestly, I don't know if I'll be buying any boxes of Born of the Gods. Cool as some of the cards seem, the value doesn't seem to be there. There only seems to be 1-2 standard playable mythics, same with rares, while having a whole host of awesome uncommons, and almost nothing with eternal appeal. It's like Dark Ascension 2.
> 
> Speaking of Dark Ascension, my foil "Thalia, Guardian of Thraben"s are each worth $25 now. Only Legacy-playable rare in the whole set, glad I held on to mine. Got them in packs, too. They're worth more than any foil mythic rare from Dark Ascension.


 
Value is a weird thing. When future sight was just out, someone gave me a Tarmogoyf that was then going for 0.50  "poor guy, you lost the draft and passed on most rares? Here's a Goyf." I can still hear him say it.

I played 5 games of EDH with Purphoros today. I won once by halving everyones life with Hearless Hidetsugu, pumping Purph +15 thanks to a flipped Homura and Braid of Fire, then cast Elemental Mastery. Boom! 23 tokens, 46 damage to my opponents.


----------



## Xaios

Haha, dude that is awesome! 

You are correct about value being a funny thing, and you're right, I might be totally wrong. Not to mention, shifts in meta can be notoriously difficult to predict. However, very few of the rares or mythics in this set give any indication of obvious power like they did in Innistrad and RTR. It's true that Tarmogoyf was VERY undervalued when it first showed up. However, Goyf was by no means the only great card in Future Sight either, that set had tons of value even without Goyf. BotG only looks like it'll have a couple chase mythics, and the rares are VERY underwhelming for the most part. Only the uncommons like above par, but they aren't worth buying boxes for.


----------



## UV7BK4LIFE

Yeah, I used to have Homura as a General in my mono red EDH deck, but he's too slow on the curve. But, if unchecked, a flipped Homura can win you the game all too easy. 

I'm with a new playgroup since 2 weeks, and yesterday this guy was testing me a bit. He said "Your turn, no cards in hand, so you durdle a bit, play a card and pass the turn, right?" Bloody annoying remark imo...

So I went untap, upkeep:
1. Sac Homura to my suspended Greater Gargadon
2. Pump my now flying doublestrike 5/5 Hound of Griselbrand for 10, now 15/15 (with Braid of Fire in play)

"Okay, is that it, you're done ?"

No. Draw phase, draw card, discard card to Jaya Ballard, destroying your Thraximundar.

"Oh."

Now I attack. You're at 34? No flying critters?

"No."

Pump hound for another 2, attack.

Boom.


----------



## Asrial

Had an amazing 4-way EDH yesterday that lasted 3 hours. Was playing my usual Ghave deck, while the other had a Gisela-deck, a Progenitus-deck, and a slightly modded Derevi-deck.
I allied myself with the Derevi-player, while the other two allied.
We had a mean interaction going with Roon (his) and Elesh Norn (mine), making his creatures powerful enough to do damage, while nobody else could deal damage. He also caught the Gisela once it went down.
Shit went down when Progenitus cast tranquility (destroying my 15 enchantments), put down an Omniscience, then a Nicol PW, smashed the rest of my board and the Roon...
Proceed to cast Open the Vault, Diabolic revelation for 6, and windmill slam Mikaeus/Ghave/Ashen rider onto the board. Nobody could do anything for their next turn, so I proceed to cast Champion of Lambholt and Nomads' assembly with 8 on the board and a Parallel lives. 

TL;DR I won


----------



## pink freud

In fear that my Oona deck might be a little to hardcore for my group of friends, I'm speccing out a Blue Braids deck. No infinites, no Consecrated Sphinx, not even any tutors. The most degenerate thing in it will be Hinder/Spell Crumple -> Tunnel Vision for when I just need to kill a guy. Deadeye will be in it, but only to soulbind to Archaeomancer to recur spells.

Anybody else find themselves making different "tiers" of decks?


----------



## UV7BK4LIFE

I used to make "be nice to your friends" decks. But they make multiplayer games long and boring. In the end, someone has to win, right?

It is fine to make a deck that is super vile and degenerate, just don't single out one player early in the game. Take out everyone in two or three turns at most. If it wins too easily, you'll have your playgroup ganging up on you, but you should take that as a compliment.


----------



## pink freud

UV7BK4LIFE said:


> I used to make "be nice to your friends" decks. But they make multiplayer games long and boring. In the end, someone has to win, right?
> 
> It is fine to make a deck that is super vile and degenerate, just don't single out one player early in the game. Take out everyone in two or three turns at most. If it wins too easily, you'll have your playgroup ganging up on you, but you should take that as a compliment.



Well, this deck is still capable of winning. It's doing what Blue Braids does best: Steal other people's creatures, clone everything that can be cloned, and then cast overloaded Cyclonic Rift 

When I get around to making the most degenerate deck I can it'll probably be Sheoldred with all sorts of sac, discard and destroy lands stuff. I have to ease my friends into EDH, not scare them off


----------



## UV7BK4LIFE

I see, if you're friends are new to EDH/Commander then it's a good idea to take it easy on the start and what direction the group is taking. Are they also new to MTG in general, or just new to EDH games?


----------



## Xaios

UV7BK4LIFE said:


> I see, if you're friends are new to EDH/Commander then it's a good idea to take it easy on the start and what direction the group is taking.



Indeed. Even now, my playgroup tends to stay away from infinite combos. Basically, we have an understanding that we can all pull out our asshole-decks every once in a while, but no more.


----------



## pink freud

UV7BK4LIFE said:


> I see, if you're friends are new to EDH/Commander then it's a good idea to take it easy on the start and what direction the group is taking. Are they also new to MTG in general, or just new to EDH games?



New to EDH. They've been playing MTG longer than I have, but I'm more into it than they are. They're generally more "Timmy" type players, so I'm the odd one out for winning in other ways than turning stuff sideways.


----------



## ittoa666

Finally got around to building my Ertai deck. People sure do love it when Ashen Rider keeps recurring after it counters a spell.


----------



## jwade

Ok, everyone at school plays this game, and are encouraging me to try it. I watched them play over lunch, and was confused as eff. I understand the basics, but is there some special learning resource? I checked out the official site and downloaded a demo game thing that walks you through a basic session, but I doubt that's giving me a very clear picture. 

It sounds like there's significant amounts of thought put into what cards you choose for your deck, is it stupid to buy one of these new intro packs that's about to come out? People are saying I should buy a 'Born of the Gods' intro pack next weekend.


----------



## Xaios

jwade said:


> Ok, everyone at school plays this game, and are encouraging me to try it. I watched them play over lunch, and was confused as eff. I understand the basics, but is there some special learning resource? I checked out the official site and downloaded a demo game thing that walks you through a basic session, but I doubt that's giving me a very clear picture.
> 
> It sounds like there's significant amounts of thought put into what cards you choose for your deck, is it stupid to buy one of these new intro packs that's about to come out? People are saying I should buy a 'Born of the Gods' intro pack next weekend.



The best place to start for a beginner is the "Duel of the Planeswalkers" games for Xbox/Playstation/PC. After that, an Intro deck is probably a good jumping off point for paper Magic. You'll also want to start attending "Friday Night Magic" events at a local gamestore if you have the time, particularly for a format called "Draft." It's basically where everyone opens a pack, takes one card on it, then passes the remaining cards to the next player, and repeat until all the cards have been taken. This is done for 3 decks, and you build the deck that you'll play for the night with the cards you pick. It's a good way to start building a small collection as well as gaining experience playing without dumping a boatload of money into it.


----------



## jwade

Definitely won't be going to any weekly events, I live about 30-40 minutes from the nearest 'cities', and can't really plan for vehicle availability on any consistent basis right now. I'll try to download that game and see what's up though.

That being said, is there a basic color combination that'd be good for a total beginner?


----------



## pink freud

Went 4-0 last night.

Phenax, God of Deception
Master of Waves
Artisan of Forms
Arbiter of the Ideal
Tromokratis
Swan Song
Archetype of Imagination
Spiteful Returned
Dissolve
Asphyxiate
Floodtide Serpent
Nullify
Nyxborn Triton
Nimbus Naiad
Wavecrash Triton
Voyage's End
Prescient Chimera
Vaporkin
2x Guardians of Meletis
Returned Phalanx
Chorus of the Tides
Pharika's Cure
11x Island
6x Swamps

I ended up milling people out twice, beating in with flyers for my other wins.


----------



## jwade

Xaios said:


> *The best place to start for a beginner is the "Duel of the Planeswalkers" games for *Xbox/Playstation*/PC*. After that, an Intro deck is probably a good jumping off point for paper Magic. .



This is definitely working, it has a fairly comprehensive tutorial phase at the start, I dig this!


----------



## Xaios

I attended 3 pre-release events over the weekend. The first event was regular sealed. I went 3 and 2. I built a really sold W/G Heroic deck but, as per the norm, lost more to my own mana screw than anything else. God, I hate that so much. This deck was incredibly easy to get the proper mana for as well, but either it wouldn't come, or I'd gets screwed out of one color even though the color symbol distribution was almost exactly the same.

The second event was also a regular sealed. Unfortunately, my card pool for this event was well and truly _garbage_. As such, I went 0-3 with one bye over 4 rounds.

The last event was a 2 Headed Giant sealed. This one went better as me and my partner opened strong cards and had good games. Alas, after winning all the matches leading up to it, we both got mana-flooded in the final match. However, even if we hadn't, I don't think we could have won, for as good as our card pools were (for example, my partner's deck had 2 of the new mythic phoenix), our opponents was flat out awesome. The biggest advantage they over us was their removal was VERY asymmetrical. One of them exiled 5 of our creatures with Curse of the Swine, and then the other killed the pig tokens we got with Bile Blight.

I did have one particularly memorable play, though. I cast an Ashiok's Adept in the first round. After passing the next turn cycle, I managed to target it with a bestow creature and two other 1-mana "save this creature" spells when they tried to kill it, sucking 3 cards out of our opponents' hands.


----------



## pink freud

My second event (Sunday evening) I managed 3-1 using U/W heroic + epic card draw.

I had the blue flyer that draws you a card when it untaps, the blue flyer that gives you a free land, creature or artifact when it untaps AND the Bident of Thassa. Add in the blue flyer that denies flying to the opponent and once I hit late game I always had 5 to 7 cards in hand. The best card in my deck, however, turned out to be Sea God's Revenge. That card won me three games. Especially when I had two Nullify in hand


----------



## Xaios

Welp, Sylvan Primordial got the banhammer in EDH. I'm not particularly sad about it, not like I was when Primeval Titan was banned, even though my "uber foils" deck is Omnath, including a SyPrime foil. The card was a problem because games warped around him the same way that they did around Primeval Titan. Green players would tutor him up and ramp into him. Black players would reanimate him. Blue players would either Bribery for him or Clone the living bejeezus out of him. Blue and Black would even go for him even if they weren't also playing green, making it impossible to benefit from his ramp effect, so God help you if they were.

I'm glad for this banning, personally.

Consequently, Deathrite Shaman was banned in Modern, while Bitterblossom and Wild Nacatl were unbanned.


----------



## pink freud

Xaios said:


> Consequently, Deathrite Shaman was banned in Modern, while Bitterblossom and Wild Nacatl were unbanned.



Meanwhile, the _foil_ DRS I have will now be waiting until RTR is no longer in print to be sold. I should have sold it for $60 when I had the chance


----------



## Xaios

pink freud said:


> Meanwhile, the _foil_ DRS I have will now be waiting until RTR is no longer in print to be sold. I should have sold it for $60 when I had the chance



Yeah, the Deathrite Shaman ban kinda came out of left field, even though it's not that surprising in hindsight. A *lot* of people were speculating that both Bitterblossom and Wild Nacatl would get unbanned. Far fewer actually expected DRS to get the banhammer.

At least DRS won't completely tank, as it still sees lots of play in Legacy as well. In fact, being as it actually sees very little play in Standard, I wouldn't expect its value to drop much more than it already has, even at rotation.

The price for Bitterblossom has absolutely skyrocketed as a result. I was hoping to pick one up for EDH. Now I think I'll hold off.


----------



## caskettheclown

I have a new love for Sharuum the Hedgemon (sp?).


----------



## Xaios

Sharuum is pretty bonkers. You can build around her in multiple ways, but she's extremely potent for combo decks. My only advice is not to abuse her too much, or she'll make people hate you.

If you're looking for true combo douchiness, the one that's probably both easiest to assemble and hardest to stop is Sharuum + Phyrexian Metamorph/Sculpting Steel + Bitter Ordeal. Here's how it works:

1) Play Sharuum.
2) Play either Phyrexian Metamorph or Sculpting Steel.
3) Have it enter the battlefield as a copy of Sharuum.
4) The legend rule will trigger before any ETB abilities are put on the stack, forcing you to sacrifice either Sharuum or the copy. Sacrifice the copy.
5) The Sharuum copy's Enter the Battlefield trigger will go on the stack even though the copy has already left the battlefield. Because the copy is already in the battlefield, you can use the ability to bring back the copy.
6) Allow this to cycle to occur equal to the total number of cards in your collective opponents' libraries, minus one. Sharuum's ability isn't forced, so you can stop it from happening whenever you want.
7) Cast Bitter Ordeal.
8) Bitter Ordeal's Gravestorm trigger adds X copies of Bitter Ordeal to the stack, where X is the number of times you allowed Sharuum's copy to die.
9) Use all copies of Bitter Ordeal on the stack to exile your opponents' libraries.

There are very few cards that can interrupt this chain, once it gets going. Sure, they can counter the initial Sharuum copy, but your actual Sharuum can just bring it back anyway, which also triggers the process. And once you cast Bitter Ordeal, there's only 3 ways stop it: 1) Counter it with Mindbreak Trap, overloaded Counterflux, Swift Silence or Flusterstorm, 2) cast Time Stop, or 3) make themselves untargetable.


----------



## Xaios

Building an interesting brew. It's basically a BUG flash deck. It runs Horizon Chimera, Boon Satyr, Notion Thief, Shambleshark, as well as Elusive Krasis for unblockable beats. One of the more interesting card synergies is Notion Thief + Whispering Madness. It completely neuters their hand. It also runs things like Putrefy, Far/Away, Simic Charm, Cyclonic Rift and Devour Flesh, as well as Bident of Thassa for more draw and to clear a path. Sideboard I think will contain Ashiok, Vraska, Ultimate Price, Whelming Wave (for the Pack Rats) and Hero's Downfall.

This is the list I have so far (except for land):

Creatures:
3x Shambleshark
4x Boon Satyr
3x Elusive Krasis
4x Horizon Chimera
4x Notion Thief

Spells:
3x Simic Charm
2x Devour Flesh
2x Cyclonic Rift
2x Dissolve
4x Putrefy
2x Bident of Thassa
2x Whispering Madness
2x Far//Away

I wanted to find a way to fit some Prophet of Kruphii (I'm sure that's the proper plural ), but I just can't get them to fit without losing either too much creature power or control power.


----------



## pink freud

Depending on how many black sources you run Bile Blight might be better than Whelming Wave. Double black two-drop, but it is a two drop, and also helps with other mass-token production decks. It also combos well with Curse of the Swine, which everybody should run because lulz.


----------



## Xaios

If it were only a two color deck, I'd absolutely run Bile Blight. Alas though, black is the tertiary color in this deck already, so running double-black 2CMC spells would be a bit tough. It's also not terribly difficult for Pack Rats to get themselves to 4+ toughness.

I like Curse of the Swine too, but the point isn't necessarily to kill my opponent's creatures as it is to keep the board clear, which CotS doesn't do. It's more of a tempo build than anything.


----------



## pink freud

That is a shame, because I was also thinking that black in Theros block has so much hand attack that Pack Rat could be neutered if you meta around it. T1 Thoughtseize and all that, but yeah, your deck definitely wants T1 Island/Forest T2 Forest/Island.

I thought about getting into standard, but I love broken cards too much: T1 Island, Sol Ring, Signet, go? just feels too good.


----------



## Xaios

Indeed. A buddy of mine has a Skithiryx Stax EDH deck. He was playing a 1V1 game against another friend. On turn 1: Swamp -> Sol Ring + Mana Crypt. Then, turn 2: Swamp -> Dark Ritual -> Wit's End.


----------



## ittoa666

So I cracked a Jap box of BotG yesterday. Pulled 6 mythics, including a foily Xenagos.


----------



## Xaios

Nice. I bought a box, only got 3 mythics, but at least they were good ones (Brimaz, Xenagos and Flame-Wreathed Phoenix).


----------



## Asrial

Okay... I thought it was customary to host tournaments in the release weekend, since all the other gameshops I've attended had so, and WotC has assigned a "release weekend". So i trottled down to a local gameshop, and... No tournament. Apparantly, they don't have a website, facebook page, and only way to know is to look at some remote website.

Bummed out, I bought 4 boosterpacks.
Second pack; Xenagos.
I've never doublesleeved a card so fast. Into Thromok EDH he goes!


----------



## M3CHK1LLA

saw this huge thread and thought it would be the right place to ask.

i run a small group of video game/movie stores, and we are about to start selling cards. we have already bought quite a few used sets from customers. question is, which are top two sites to check prices?

thx in advance


----------



## Asrial

Starcitygames.com is maybe a tad high, but it's fairly consistent and insanely well-sorted.
mtgstocks.com gives you stock-like updates on the market for each card, but can be subject to price manipulation.

But you shouldn't bet your money on single cards, at least not the recent sets, unless you've got a community to back you up. Rather go for selling sealed product.


----------



## Nile

^That. Most of the time ChannelFireball has the best prices for a retail online store so base it off them if they have it in stock most of the time but Starcity is usually going to have any foils ever and is going to be really consistent. Just make sure to mark down from Starcity prices though. EBay is also a good place to check for major price differences if you want to move shit, like True-Name Nemesis is $45 at retail stores and like $32-$35 on eBay, pretty noticeable difference there.


----------



## M3CHK1LLA

thx guys, I'll chk those out.


----------



## Xaios

There's also TCGplayer.com, which aggregates prices form a ton of different online retailers.

The fact is though, pretty much all online retailers are vulnerable to price manipulation. For example, lately someone started buying up nearly every copy of Mana Crypt out there, triggering a bit of a frenzy. As a result, the price for both the original version and the judge promo have been going up very fast, even though the card doesn't see anymore play than it did before.


----------



## pink freud

I go through Card Kingdom, but that's because I can pick up in person.


----------



## Xaios

Made some epic trades last night. Acquired foils of Rune-Scarred Demon, Bloodgift Demon, Luminarch Ascension, Grave Titan (actual legit foil, not DOTP promo) and one other card which escapes me for Vish Kal, foils of Silklash Spider and Nylea as sideboard tech for Omnath, and a Bitterblossom.

Also for Omnath, I ordered the following:

- Foil Craterhoof Behemoth
- Foil Crop Rotation
- Foil Petrified Field
- Foil Krosan Tusker (old-bordered foil to replace the FNM foil)
- Foil Krosan Grip (Time Spiral version to replace FNM foil)
- Foil Scavenging Ooze (I opted for the DOTP promo in this case because the art is way cooler.)

I've also been trying to obtain a foil Nykthos in a trade, but the guy never shows up. 

Watched something hilarious last night. A buddy was running an R/G aggro deck. He never got more than 3 lands in play, but because one of them was Nykthos and he had Voyaging Satyrs along with Burning-Tree Emissary, at one point he was able to generate more than 20 mana per turn.

EDIT: The card I couldn't think of was a foil Vault of the Archangel.


----------



## Xaios

For kicks, here's my Darien, King of Kjeldor decklist in case anyone wants to try it:

General (1):
- Darien, King of Kjeldor

Planeswalkers (2):
- Elspeth, Knight-Errant
- Elspeth, Sun's Champion

Creatures (33):
- Archangel of Thune
- Archetype of Courage
- Auriok Champion
- Ballyrush Banneret
- Benalish Commander
- Captain of the Watch
- Catapult Master
- Commander Eesha
- Crusader of Odric
- Court Street Denizen
- Daru Warchief
- Field Marshall
- Gideon's Avenger
- Goldnight Commander
- Gustcloak Savior
- Intrepid Hero
- Knight of the White Orchid
- Knight-Captain of Eos
- Loxodon Gatekeeper
- Odric, Master Tactician
- Phantom General
- Ranger of Eos
- Serra Ascendant
- Soul Warden
- Soul's Attendant
- Stoneforge Mystic
- Stormfront Riders
- Sun Titan
- Suture Priest
- Veteran Armorer
- Veteran Armorsmith
- Veteran Swordsmith
- Weathered Wayfarer

Artifacts (15):
- Akroma's Memorial
- Ashnod's Altar
- Caged Sun
- Carnage Altar
- Darksteel Plate
- Eldrazi Monument
- Expedition Map
- Lightning Greaves
- Mana Vault
- Mind's Eye
- Skullclamp
- Slate of Ancestry
- Sol Ring
- Staff of Nin
- Well of Lost Dreams

Enchantments (9):
- Angelic Chorus
- Cathars' Crusade
- Glorious Anthem
- Honor of the Pure
- Land Tax
- Luminarch Ascension
- Marshal's Anthem
- Mobilization
- Serra's Liturgy

Instants (4):
- Enlightened Tutor
- Path to Exile
- Return to Dust
- Swords to Plowshares

Sorceries (2):
- Austere Command
- Proclamation of Rebirth

Non-Basic Lands (11):
- Ancient Tomb
- Cavern of Souls
- City of Brass
- Drifting Meadow
- Emeria, the Sky Ruin
- Grand Coliseum
- Kor Haven
- Nomad Stadium
- Reliquary Tower
- Secluded Steppe
- Tarnished Citadel

Basic Lands (23):
- 23x Plains


----------



## Xaios

For kicks, here's my Darien, King of Kjeldor decklist in case anyone wants to try it:

General (1):
- Darien, King of Kjeldor

Planeswalkers (2):
- Elspeth, Knight-Errant
- Elspeth, Sun's Champion

Creatures (33):
- Archangel of Thune
- Archetype of Courage
- Auriok Champion
- Ballyrush Banneret
- Benalish Commander
- Captain of the Watch
- Catapult Master
- Commander Eesha
- Crusader of Odric
- Court Street Denizen
- Daru Warchief
- Field Marshall
- Gideon's Avenger
- Goldnight Commander
- Gustcloak Savior
- Intrepid Hero
- Knight of the White Orchid
- Knight-Captain of Eos
- Loxodon Gatekeeper
- Odric, Master Tactician
- Phantom General
- Ranger of Eos
- Serra Ascendant
- Soul Warden
- Soul's Attendant
- Stoneforge Mystic
- Stormfront Riders
- Sun Titan
- Suture Priest
- Veteran Armorer
- Veteran Armorsmith
- Veteran Swordsmith
- Weathered Wayfarer

Artifacts (15):
- Akroma's Memorial
- Ashnod's Altar
- Caged Sun
- Carnage Altar
- Darksteel Plate
- Eldrazi Monument
- Expedition Map
- Lightning Greaves
- Mana Vault
- Mind's Eye
- Skullclamp
- Slate of Ancestry
- Sol Ring
- Staff of Nin
- Well of Lost Dreams

Enchantments (9):
- Angelic Chorus
- Cathars' Crusade
- Glorious Anthem
- Honor of the Pure
- Land Tax
- Luminarch Ascension
- Marshal's Anthem
- Mobilization
- Serra's Liturgy

Instants (4):
- Enlightened Tutor
- Path to Exile
- Return to Dust
- Swords to Plowshares

Sorceries (2):
- Austere Command
- Proclamation of Rebirth

Non-Basic Lands (11):
- Ancient Tomb
- Cavern of Souls
- City of Brass
- Drifting Meadow
- Emeria, the Sky Ruin
- Grand Coliseum
- Kor Haven
- Nomad Stadium
- Reliquary Tower
- Secluded Steppe
- Tarnished Citadel

Basic Lands (23):
- 23x Plains


----------



## caskettheclown

An acquaintance of mine ask me if I played magic.

Long story short, he's been playing casually when he hitchhikes around the country to all these hippie events these past few years. He was saying "I bet my elf deck can beat your decks". He showed me his deck and what all was in it.

It was a very very casual elf deck. Barely two of any card.

So I told him "Not to be rude but i've been playing fairly heavily for a few years and fine tuned most of my decks for tournaments and have done well with them. Many of them combo off and win early in the game. I'd be happy to play you but honestly my decks are on another level than yours. If you want I can help make your decks better as they seem pretty unorganized, or I can help make you a commander deck since you seem to like having only one of each card anyway"

He still as an ego about his decks. He's never played tournaments or anything like that. I don't want to come across as rude or have an ego myself but damn his attitude about this is getting annoying.

I guess i'll have to play him with my own elf decks and whatever else he wants to play against to prove it to him. Then maybe he'll let me help me make his decks better...


----------



## Xaios

Step 1) Eldrazi Elves.
Step 2) Tear new asshole.
Step 3) ????? (His perspective.)
Step 4) Teach humility. Specifically, the flavor text for Humility, "One cannot cleanse the wounds of failure."


----------



## ittoa666

"Yeah, I'm playing Emrakul on turn 3. Swing for lethal. GG."


----------



## Asrial

Just quickly throw together a deranged hermit wombo combo. He played with casual rules, so anything goes.


----------



## pink freud

ittoa666 said:


> "Yeah, I'm playing Emrakul on turn 3. Swing for lethal. GG."



Noob. Emrakul is a turn 2 play. Channel FTW


----------



## Xaios

Real ballers kill on turn 1 with Memory Jar, the only card in history that Wizards not only banned, but actually instituted an off-schedule emergency banning just to deal with.


----------



## pink freud

Xaios said:


> Real ballers kill on turn 1 with Memory Jar, the only card in history that Wizards not only banned, but actually instituted an off-schedule emergency banning just to deal with.



Hell, you can turn one "Oops, all the spells" if you have a god-hand. Oops, All Spells! : Daily MTG : Magic: The Gathering

Bonus points because it's a no lands deck.


----------



## Xaios

pink freud said:


> Hell, you can turn one "Oops, all the spells" if you have a god-hand. Oops, All Spells! : Daily MTG : Magic: The Gathering
> 
> Bonus points because it's a no lands deck.



That's pretty awesome, and damned creative to boot. It's like a combination of Hermit Druid and Primal Surge combos, but with neither card. I still like the Memory Jar version more on principal because, instead of just hitting an "I Win" button, it actually does kill them with damage via Memory Jar + Megrim.


----------



## caskettheclown

When I see him again i'll definitely tear him a new one. I like helping new players and casual players but they need to realize when someone is obviously a lot better at the game than them. I did when I first started playing and its helped me a lot.

Real gangsters play storm!...or elves.... or faeries 

Also want to build a deck that is just horrible to play against. A control deck that doesn't let them do anything! So if anyone has any ideas let me know, keep its cheap though as I want it to just be a fun deck (Fun for me) and not super competitive.

I had a deck with stonehorn dignitary and venser with a ton of lockdown controlly type stuff but I can't remember what was in it. Super fun deck though.


----------



## pink freud

caskettheclown said:


> When I see him again i'll definitely tear him a new one. I like helping new players and casual players but they need to realize when someone is obviously a lot better at the game than them. I did when I first started playing and its helped me a lot.
> 
> Real gangsters play storm!...or elves.... or faeries
> 
> Also want to build a deck that is just horrible to play against. A control deck that doesn't let them do anything! So if anyone has any ideas let me know, keep its cheap though as I want it to just be a fun deck (Fun for me) and not super competitive.
> 
> I had a deck with stonehorn dignitary and venser with a ton of lockdown controlly type stuff but I can't remember what was in it. Super fun deck though.



4X Winter Orb.
4X Lotus Petal
4X Sol Ring
However many signets you want. If you go through with this I suggest GW, GB and BW signets.
4X Catastrophe
4X Awakening Zone
4X Mycosynth Golem
4X Any Eldrazi (It That Betrays is relatively cheap and works well for this plan)
4X Guardians of Meletis
4X Sylvan Caryatid

Fill the rest up with mana-elves, more mana rocks and board stalls (kill spells, counterspells if you can swing the blue) and more land destruction. If you want to get expensive get Crucible of Worlds and a playset of Strip Mine. More mass land destruction too.

The goal is to get Winter Orb down ASAP, survive to get out a Mycosynth, and then star playing your Eldrazi for free. The meta-goal is for your opponent to sit there never being able to cast anything because you deny them any mana while you drag the game out until you draw what you need.

Note, do NOT play this sort of deck more than once against people who you consider friends. It is vile, disgusting and incredibly awesome.


----------



## Xaios

pink freud said:


> 4X Guardians of Meletis



The rest of that deck sounds awesomely assholish, but this made me .

Surely Wall of Tanglecord would be a better choice? Same stats, less mana, and can block flyers.


----------



## pink freud

Xaios said:


> The rest of that deck sounds awesomely assholish, but this made me .
> 
> Surely Wall of Tanglecord would be a better choice? Same stats, less mana, and can block flyers.



That is better. Didn't even know that one existed.


----------



## Xaios

Indeed, unless Golem tribal synergy is an important aspect of that deck.  

Before M12 was released, my LGS decided to play Scars Block Constructed instead of Standard for a month at FNM. I actually built a Bant Birthing Pod deck which revolved around the Golem Splicer cycle from New Phyrexia. I only played at one tourney, but I went 3-1, so I can't complain.

One of the matches I won, I was playing against R/G Aggro. My opponent sideboarded in 4 Creeping Corrosions and 4 Slagstorms, either of which would have just _decimated_ me. Thankfully, he didn't see ANY of them.


----------



## ittoa666

pink freud said:


> Noob. Emrakul is a turn 2 play. Channel FTW


----------



## pink freud

So after checking out my LGS "casual" Commander night, I've found decks built to play with my friends can't really hang. The only reason I didn't die right away was I was playing a "Steal all your stuff" deck, so when somebody entwined Tooth and Nail into Sheoldred and Ulamog the power level of MY deck rose drastically 

Now I'm have a degenerate Sharuum infinite combo deck waiting for pick up. All the tutors! All the board wipes! All the counters! 

I'm a bad person.


----------



## Xaios

Yes you are, but so are they. 

What general were you running for steal.dec? A buddy of mine has a Merieke deck that is pretty brutal.


----------



## pink freud

Xaios said:


> Yes you are, but so are they.
> 
> What general were you running for steal.dec? A buddy of mine has a Merieke deck that is pretty brutal.



Braids, Conjurer Adept. A risky political general, but if they play their OP stuff for free I get to steal it. It also works really well with Roil Elemental, where you can drop two fetch-lands per turn and steal four creatures while doing so. Also has the obligatory Memnarch.


----------



## Xaios

Interesting choice, so long as you can protect that Roil Elemental.

Aside from Merieke, if I was running a steal.dec, I would personally run red in addition to blue, because it gives access to all of red's threaten effects (Act of Treason, etc...). Then going into Grixis gives you Slave of Bolas, which is the greatest threaten effect ever, as well as Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker who can permanently steal creatures.

If you're not already doing so, you should run a Vedalken Plotter. You never know when you're going to run into a pesky Homeward Path, and that will deal with it.


----------



## pink freud

Nice. Yeah, my Homeward Path plan in the current deck is Strip Mine.

My permasteal stuff:
Legacy's Allure
Beguiler of Wills
Kiega, the Tide Star
Tolarian Entrancer
Gilded Drake
Dominate
Govern The Guildless
Simic Manipulator
Rootwater Matriarch (kinda)
Empress Galina
Blatant Thievery
Thalakdos Deciever
Bribery
edit* Memnarch (how could I forget Memnarch, everybody loves Memnarch).

Control as long as I control a permanent:
Mind Control
Vedalken Shackles
Cytoplast Manipulator
Control Magic
Roil Elemental
Corrupted Conscience
Treachery

Clone effects:
Renegade Doppelganger
Quicksilver Gargantuan
Infinite Reflection
Body Double
Vesuvan Shapeshifter
Rite of Replication
Vesuvan Doppelganger
Cryptoplasm
Fated Infatuation
Sakashima, the Imposter
Followed Footsteps

Other blue creatures:
Braids, Conjurer Adept
Stormtide Leviathan
Archetype of Imagination
Sphinx of Magosi
Master of Waves
Deadeye Navigator
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
Azami, Lady of Scrolls
Consecrated Sphinx
Thassa

Other spells of note:
Spell Crumple
Hinder
Tunnel Vision
Inundate
Wash Out
Cyclonic Rift
Rhystic Study
Paradox Haza
Sensei's Divining Top
Counterbalance
Commandeer
Extraplanar Lens

Magic Christmas land:
Have good devotion to blue, play Master of Waves, soulbind with Deadeye Navigator. Use Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx to blink MoW as much as I can. Save mana for counterspells until my next turn, drop Archetype and swing in with the bazillion flyers.

Shenanigans with Stormtide Leviathan is another wincon.


----------



## rawrkunjrawr

God 67 pages of people talking about Magic the Gathering!? I wish some of you guys lived here, I have a ton of cards from a while ago but no one to play with.


----------



## Slayer89

Played in a TCGPlayer event yesterday and got third with Mono Black Devotion. Set my sideboard up to battle aggro and control then got wrecked by my buddy's GWu Midrange in the Semifinals. Still got a sweet mat, hat, and six packs out of it. The packs held Xenagod, Spirit of the Labyrinth, Foil Satyr Firedancer, Temple of Enlightenment, and a coule jank rares. Not a bad way to spend a Saturday.


----------



## pink freud

So, I got Sharuum assembled. I present Iamabadperson.dec:

Commander: Sharuum the Hegemon

Combo Pieces (15):
Infinite Mana:
Deadeye Navigator
Great Whale
Pili-Pala
Grand Architect
Finishers:
Memnarch
Debt to the Deathless

Infinite Turns:
Thopter Assembly
Time Sieve
Mindslaver

Infinite Damage:
Sculpting Steel
Phyrexian Metamorph
Bitter Ordeal
Disciple of the Vault
Blood Artist
Glassdust Hulk

Tutors (8):
Fabricate
Diabolic Tutor
Trinket Mage
Demonic Tutor
Personal Tutor
Mystic Tutor
Vampiric Tutor
Tezzeret the Seeker

Card Draw/Draw Smoothing (10):
Lim-Dul's Vault
Thassa, God of the Sea
Sensei's Divining Top
Rhystic Study
Thought Reflection
Archmage Ascension (technically a tutor if it lives long enough)
Consecrated Sphinx
Arcanis the Omnipotent
Mind Unbound
Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur

Control (12):
Soulscour
Supreme Verdict
Inundate
Cyclonic Rift
Spell Crumple
Counterspell
Countersquall
Return to Dust
Path to Exile
Swords to Plowshares
Hero's Downfall
Jester's Cap

Miscellaneous Goodstuff (8):
Darksteel Forge
Nevinyrral's Disk
Unwinding Clock
Rings of Brighthearth
Master Transmuter
Enigma Sphinx
Magister Sphinx
Sphinx of the Steel Wind

Mana Rocks/Acceleration (10):
Azorius Signet
Dimir Signet
Orzhov Signet
Sol Ring
Darksteel Ingot
Thran Dynamo
Basalt Monolith
Gilded Lotus
Doubling Cube
Solemn Simulacrum

Land (36):
Command Tower
Arcane Sanctum
Temple of Enlightenment
Azorius Chancery
Glacial Fortress
Hallowed Fountain
Temple of Deceit
Drowned Catacomb
Dimir Aqueduct
Watery Grave
Temple of Silence
Godless Shrine
Isolated Chapel
Orzhov Basilica
Seat of the Synod
Ancient Den
Vault of Whispers
Evolving Wilds
Terramorphic Expanse
Academy Ruins
Strip Mine
Reliquary Tower
Island 6X
Swamp 4X
Plains 4X

Link to Tappedout: Sharuum the Hegemon (Commander / EDH MTG Deck)


----------



## pink freud

pink freud said:


> Link to Tappedout: Sharuum the Hegemon (Commander / EDH MTG Deck)



The deck changed a little bit. Took out the bounce lands to be a bit faster in the mana department.

I'm thinking of taking out a bit of the rare-case card-draw stuff to make room for this delightful combo I just figured out, because I am a bad person:















How it works:

Have Hive Mind and Glen Elendra out. When you cast Doomsday every player has to copy it, and since it is a "you" spell, the only valid target is themselves. Once everybody's Doomsday is on the stack trigger Glen Elendra for your own, keeping your life and your library while your opponents lost half of theirs and now have only five cards in their libraries. If they don't scoop or disrupt it, that is.


----------



## Xaios

If you're gonna run Hive Mind, then you also _must_ run any of the pacts that your colors will allow.

Also, you can do something very similar to your combo and stay in Mono-Blue by using "Paradigm Shift" instead of Doomsday.


----------



## pink freud

Ah, this is going into the Sharuum deck. Pact of Negation is excellent for this though I'd have to follow it up with Soulscour to make sure they can't pay if they are in blue. Doomsday followed up by Paradigm Shift, using the second Archmage activation sounds delightful. Seems like a quick death though, not as torturous as only doing the Doomsday.


----------



## no_dice

My wife has been wanting to start playing again for a while, so she got me to play with her yesterday. The first time I used a Black/Red deck she made for me and she kicked my ass. I decided to piece together a Blue/Black deck out of the BOTG starter set she got, and I beat her 3 times in a row. 

I probably just got lucky, as my deck could use a lot more polish and focus to be efficient.

One thing that confuses me is Monstrosity. Every explanation I've read for it is so convoluted that I have no idea what they're talking about. They say after it "resolves," it's still monstrous, so the monstrosity can't be activated again. What do they mean "resolve?"


----------



## pink freud

no_dice said:


> One thing that confuses me is Monstrosity. Every explanation I've read for it is so convoluted that I have no idea what they're talking about. They say after it "resolves," it's still monstrous, so the monstrosity can't be activated again. What do they mean "resolve?"



Monstrosity uses the stack.

Let's say you have a Fleecemane Lion (Fleecemane Lion Theros Magic The Gathering MTG Card Kingdom) and you go to Monstrosity it, making it go from a vanilla 3/3 to a 4/4 Hexproof Indestructible. If this resolves you will only be able to do this once _to this creature_. If the card is removed from the battlefield and returns you will have to do it again, as it will enter non-Monstrositied. Going back to activating it: Since it uses the stack I can wait until you spend mana to activate the ability and then use any instant-speed kill spell or 3-damage or -3/-3 spell and kill it before Monstrosity resolves.

Note: Putting counters on the creature does NOT activate Monstrosity in the same way it activates Unleash.


----------



## no_dice

Okay, so I feel kind of stupid. I just went and read an article about the stack, and apparently resolve means activate in the context of the game, whereas I thought 'resolve' meant the effects of monstrosity would be over, but since the creature was still 'monstrous' you couldn't activate it again to regain the effect. 

I obviously have a lot to learn.


----------



## Xaios

The stack (and how it interacts with priority) is one of the hardest concepts to really master. I'd do some reading on it too, but in some ways only experience will really help.


----------



## pink freud

Xaios said:


> The stack (and how it interacts with priority) is one of the hardest concepts to really master. I'd do some reading on it too, but in some ways only experience will really help.



A judge who is friends with the people at Loading Ready Run (they got me into magic) has a great analogy:

The stack is like a sink full of dirty plates. To empty it you have to clean the top plate (which was put in last) and work your way down to the bottom plate (which was put in first). Occasionally some jerk will come along and interrupt (no pun intended) you and stick a plate on top of the pile, which you then have to take care of before continuing on.

If there is something on the stack only Instants, cards with Flash, activated abilities or cards with Morph may be played, unless you have a game state that declares otherwise (Time Stop type abilities or Hypersonic Dragon type abilities).

If you are new to the stack and are playing some intensive stack interactions, I find it best to literally stack the cards on top of each other. For real stack shenanigans check this guy out:





Once you get it down the stack is pretty easy to deal with for the most part. The currently most confusing interaction is probably Theros gods interacting with evolve triggers. What is always confusing is layers: The Layer System : Daily MTG : Magic: The Gathering


----------



## no_dice

I tried to focus my deck a little more, but it's still probably pretty noobish.  Maybe you guys could point out some flaws and give a little advice?

*Lands - 22*
____________
Island x10
Swamp x8
Temple of Deceit x4

*Creatures - 24*
____________
Erebos God of the Dead x2
Returned Phalanx x3
Spiteful Returned x2
Baleful Eidolon x4
Archetype of Imagination x3
Trained Condor x3
Nyxborn Triton x3 (I usually bestow them for the +3/+2)
Kraken of the Straits x2
Shipbreaker Kraken x2

*Instants/Enchantments - 14*
____________
Bile Blight x4
Cancel x3
Hero's Downfall x4
Aqueous Form x3



I'm pretty sure I need some more black creatures to make an easier time getting the devotion for Erebos, and the Krakens may be unnecessary, but I like them.  

A lot of my planning for this deck was to counter my wife's white deck that relies a lot on lifelink and token cat creatures. The original deck I made out of her spare cards was even more unfocused than this one, but I managed to beat her three times with it.

Ideally, I would like my deck to be fairly effective against other players as well, should I decide to play against someone other than my wife.


----------



## Xaios

Completed my cycle of ABUR dual lands tonight. A good buddy was gonna be shipping off a bunch of great old cards to dealers down south in order to pay off some debts. I offered him a little more than he was gonna get from the dealers in cash, and bam, we had a trade. Got the 6 duals I needed to complete the cycle (Taiga, Tundra, Plateau, Volcanic Island, Badlands and Underground Sea), as well as Serra's Sanctum, Wooded Foothills, an arena foil Enlightened Tutor, and some other randomness (an extra Skullclamp, Yawgmoth's Will and Lord of the Undead).

The Underground Sea and the Taiga are even autographed by Rob Alexander.


----------



## Slayer89

Finally making it to an event in the afternoon. Rocking Orzhov Midrange. Time to do some work with Rats and Barons.


----------



## Xaios

Man, I'm just blown away by the value of ZEN fetchlands lately. I still have all my fetchlands from when they were standard-legal (except for two Verdant Catacombs which I accidentally put through the washing machine...), and they're just CRAZY valuable now.


----------



## pink freud

Yeah, Jace is cheaper than a land card now


----------



## Xaios

4-0'd the draft tonight. Drafted a sick-nasty G/R deck with rare power on my side:
- Hunter's Prowess
- Two Polis Crushers
- Boon Satyr
- Ember Swallower

Every card in my deck was also serious quality, too. I just _facerolled_ people.

Also, some Magic memes that I made:


----------



## pink freud

Green is super powerful right now, as is shown here:
LoadingReadyRun - LRRDraft #49: The Charge of the Badger

They get there... with CHARGING BADGER! (and a little bit of Aspect of the Hydra sprinkled on top).


----------



## Xaios

pink freud said:


> Green is super powerful right now, as is shown here:
> LoadingReadyRun - LRRDraft #49: The Charge of the Badger
> 
> They get there... with CHARGING BADGER! (and a little bit of Aspect of the Hydra sprinkled on top).



That is quite literally the greatest thing I have ever seen.


----------



## Xaios

We had the very first Modern event at my LGS today. I came in 2nd, going 3-1, playing Elf Aggro. The deck I lost to was playing G/W, partially humans, partially ramp. Game one, I didn't have a good start while he dropped Hero of Bladehold on turn 3. Game 2, I ran him over with Ezuri's overrun effect. Game 3, we both had decent starts, but then he used Somberwald Sages to ramp into Angel of Serenity. I was able to kill the angel with Beast Within, but it was such a gigantic tempo swing that I couldn't recover and he took the round.

I've made some changes since. Here's the current decklist:


Creatures (29):
2x Llanowar Elves
2x Elvish Mystic
2x Arbor Elf
3x Joraga Warcaller
3x Elvish Visionary
2x Jagged-Scar Archers
2x Imperious Perfect
4x Elvish Archdruid
3x Ezuri, Renegade Leader
2x Garruk's Packleader
2x Regal Force
2x Khalni Hydra

Instants (4):
4x Beast Within

Sorceries (3):
3x Elvish Promenade

Artrifacts (2):
2x Eldrazi Monument

Lands (22):
2x Cavern of Souls
20x Forest

Sideboard:
3x Creeping Corrosion
3x Dismember
2x Elvish Champion
2x Momentous Fall
2x Nature's Claim
3x Obstinate Baloth


----------



## Xaios

Got two table kills at EDH tonight. First, went for the douche combo kill with Prossh. Then, pulled off the hilarious "WTF is going on?!?" kill with Darien. His ability is *really* good when facing off against Nekusar, so long as you can get one of the soul sisters out.


----------



## pink freud

A guy at my LGS runs that Darien build. "Attack me, please, I want life!"

I piloted my new Riku deck last night: Riku of the Big Beats (Commander / EDH MTG Deck)

Managed to cast an Utvara Hellkite, copy it, and then next turn cast a kicked Rite of Replication an copy THAT for 12 Utvara Hellkites. Swing with the first two and end up with 36 dragons in total. Of course then somebody scrounged up a Cyclonic Rift 

It's a shame, because the next turn I was going to cast and copy the Hamletback Goliath, then swing in with all the dragons to put roughly a billion counters on the Goliath.


----------



## Xaios

pink freud said:


> A guy at my LGS runs that Darien build. "Attack me, please, I want life!"



Haha yeah, exactly! It was especially hilarious when I had Darien, Soul Warden and Well of Lost Dreams against Nekusar, because each time Nekusar would damage me while I was drawing cards, I'd get a dude, which gained me the life back, which I'd use to activate Well of Lost Dreams, which drew me a card, which would cause Nekusar to damage me, which got me a dude, which gained me life, which I'd use to activate Well... and so on. 

Actually, the MVP of that game was probably Lightning Greaves, all things considered. I tutored for it on turn 3 with Stoneforge Mystic. It always kept Darien or one of my more valuable creatures alive.



pink freud said:


> I piloted my new Riku deck last night: Riku of the Big Beats (Commander / EDH MTG Deck)
> 
> Managed to cast an Utvara Hellkite, copy it, and then next turn cast a kicked Rite of Replication an copy THAT for 12 Utvara Hellkites. Swing with the first two and end up with 36 dragons in total. Of course then somebody scrounged up a Cyclonic Rift



Haha, yeah, Cyclonic Rift is crazy good. It's like a blue Rout.

Looks like a fun list. One change I would make is to sub Fervor for Fires of Yavimaya. It's like Fervor and has the same CMC, but you can sacrifice it to pump a dude as well.


----------



## pink freud

Good idea. I'm also toying with cutting Thran for another card draw. Sad Golem and Zegana don't really cut it alone (although I also thought about putting in a Lab Maniac in case I can deck myself with Zegana). Tamiyo is OK, but situational. Thought Reflection might take the slot, as if it sticks around it's damn good and if it draws out removal my other enchants have a higher chance of sticking around.

A side note: I'm getting really tired of Nekusar and Oloro decks. Nekusar because everybody plays the same "Wheel you for your life, multiple times, plus copies" deck, and Oloro because he's not a general, he's an untouchable enchantment that you have to have an Erebos-type card out to combat.


----------



## Xaios

pink freud said:


> Good idea. I'm also toying with cutting Thran for another card draw. Sad Golem and Zegana don't really cut it alone (although I also thought about putting in a Lab Maniac in case I can deck myself with Zegana). Tamiyo is OK, but situational. Thought Reflection might take the slot, as if it sticks around it's damn good and if it draws out removal my other enchants have a higher chance of sticking around.



Mercurial Chemister would probably be a good choice, because it can not only draw cards, but it can act as spot removal as well. Bident of Thassa and Coastal Piracy can also draw a lot of cards if you're consistently swinging in for damage. Bident can even clear the way. I would also keep Thran Dynamo in this case. You've got enough big-mana spells with plenty of colorless mana in their costs that I'd say it's justified.

There are a few cards though that I think are dubious. There's a quasi-strategy of getting guys with counters on them and then doubling the counters with Gilder Bairn or Vorel. To be honest though, you don't have enough cards in the deck that get big counters for this to really be consistent. That's a strategy that you need to either go all in or abandon. Better generals for that strategy are Animar and Experiment Kraj. Riku is still great for creature-based decks, but more as an ETB value engine. He really shines with high-powered sorceries. Think about throwing in cards like Blatant Thievery, Clan Defiance, Comet Storm, Tooth and Nail and Bribery.

(EDIT: That was a little terse. I'm a Melvin. It's like a Spike, but while spikes optimize their decks for the sole purpose of winning, Melvins do so because they love the beauty of a finely tuned deck running with clockwork efficiency, with all the possible interactions and rules subtleties taken into account. The players in my EDH crew also tend to optimize pretty hard, even though we also for the most part actively avoid certain strategies like Mass Land Destruction and Prison decks.)



pink freud said:


> A side note: I'm getting really tired of Nekusar and Oloro decks. Nekusar because everybody plays the same "Wheel you for your life, multiple times, plus copies" deck, and Oloro because he's not a general, he's an untouchable enchantment that you have to have an Erebos-type card out to combat.



Yeah, Oloro and Nekusar are kind of annoying like that. It's actually a problem that about half the new generals from the Commander 2013 set have, a high level of uninteractivity. Thankfully, the other half are quite interactive.


----------



## Xaios

I went 3-1 yesterday at FNM with a deck that made White/Blue players CRY! 

Here's the list:

2x Cloudfin Raptor
2x Cyclonic Rift
4x Shambleshark
2x Simic Charm
4x Boon Satyr
4x Hero's Downfall
4x Putrefy
2x Thassa, God of the Sea
2x Bident of Thassa
4x Horizon Chimera
2x Master Biomancer
4x Notion Thief
1x Aetherling

SB:
2x Abrupt Decay
2x Aetherize
2x Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
2x Dark Betrayal
1x Devour Flesh
2x Far/Away
3x Golgari Charm
1x Ultimate Price

Some changes I'm looking at making:
- Cloudfin Raptor and Shambleshark have been pretty underwhelming thus far, so I'm probably going to mainboard Golgari Charm and Abrupt Decays instead.
- Master Biomancer, while good, isn't exactly meta-appropriate right now. I'm thinking I'll take him out and throw in two copies of Opportunity.
- I've been running 23 land, I'll bump that up to 24.


----------



## Xaios

Journey Into Nyx spoiler time!

I like this card:






Definitely the strongest equipment card since Scars of Mirrodin block. Plays well both on offense and defense, the pump is quite significant and it even helps with Devotion. Plus, it has awesome artwork that will look _fantastic_ in foil.


----------



## Asrial

Yeah, that card is absolutely nuts. In standard, it will absolutely wreck some ungodly (lolpun) amount of face, as it also just shuts down any swinging 4-of. Modern? Don't think so. Legacy? All of SFM's targets are way better. Vintage? Lol.





This, on the other hand, is... Weird.


----------



## Xaios

Asrial said:


> This, on the other hand, is... Weird.



I like that, actually. What it shares in common with the most standard playable gods printed thus far, Thassa and Erebos, is that it doesn't require you to be playing other cards constantly for it to have a measureable effect on the game. It works well by itself.

I think Godsend will see limited play in Standard. While it's better in a vacuum than any equipment from Innistrad or RTR blocks, that's not really saying much. It has a damn powerful ability. The problem is that, unlike the swords from SoM block, a) it offers no protection for the creature, so getting knocked off by spot removal is still a very real possibility, and b) as long as your opponent has creatures, they can still block. The protection afforded by the swords also served as a way to bypass blockers entirely.

I'm really looking forward to see what Kruphix does. My completely uneducated guess says that its ability will be Exploration stapled onto Future Sight.


----------



## Slayer89

Im not sure what I like better about spoiler season' the spoilers themselves or the overhyping/complaining that follows. So much on my facebook on how Iroas is OP.


----------



## Slayer89

That being said, I would like to win this


----------



## pink freud

I think I witnessed a first in the history of Magic last night.

Somebody bestowed a Chromanticore on a Blightsteel Colossus. It was beautiful.

There was also an 8/9 Birds of Paradise flying around.


----------



## Xaios

pink freud said:


> I think I witnessed a first in the history of Magic last night.
> 
> Somebody bestowed a Chromanticore on a Blightsteel Colossus. It was beautiful.








Also played some EDH last night. First game I played Sigarda against Ghave, Teneb and Oloro. Teneb actually ended up going pretty nuts so he rolled the table, despite me wiping the board twice. That's reanimator for ya.

Second game, I whipped out my deck of weaponized douchebaggery, Omnath, and reminded everyone just how mean my big green mana machine really is. I rolled through the whole table (playing against Erebos, Teneb, Kiki-Jiki and Tajic). I actually cast Genesis Wave twice, once for 13 and then again for 21. I actually ended up finishing the game with ZERO cards left in my library. One more turn and I would have decked myself. 

So yeah, that's getting put away for the next 3 months.


----------



## pink freud

Yeah, last night was nuts. We played Planechase EDH, and then Archenemy. I was testing out my new Sydri deck, was discovering all sorts of bizarre things I could do. Even had Phyrexian Metamorph under Mimic Vat, which I could pop out to copy a Keiga, sack the copy due to legendary rule and steal a creature, then use Voltaic key to do it all over again.


----------



## Xaios

I've been meaning to try Sydri. Seems like she could do some interesting stuff. The only thing that worries me is that I fear she wouldn't be as powerful as Sharuum, although granted, she also a whole paints a much smaller target on your head.

The reason I nearly decked myself is that, on my second Genesis Wave, Regal Force hit the field. By the time Genesis Wave finished resolving, I had 25 creatures on board. Regal Force's trigger is mandatory, so I couldn't opt not to draw those cards. By the time I was done, I only had two left. In a normal open game, I would have just killed EVERYONE else that turn (had Akroma's Memorial, Eldrazi Monument and an active Beastmaster Ascension for massive hasty beats), but we play with a rule where we attack the person on our right and defend against the person on our left. I kill the guy playing Teneb, pass the turn. It comes back, I draw my second-to-last card, kill the guy playing Kiki-Jiki, pass the turn. Comes back to me, I draw my _very last card_, then kill the final other person, playing Tajic.


----------



## pink freud

Xaios said:


> I've been meaning to try Sydri. Seems like she could do some interesting stuff. The only thing that worries me is that I fear she wouldn't be as powerful as Sharuum, although granted, she also a whole paints a much smaller target on your head.
> 
> The reason I nearly decked myself is that, on my second Genesis Wave, Regal Force hit the field. By the time Genesis Wave finished resolving, I had 25 creatures on board. Regal Force's trigger is mandatory, so I couldn't opt not to draw those cards. By the time I was done, I only had two left. In a normal open game, I would have just killed EVERYONE else that turn (had Akroma's Memorial, Eldrazi Monument and an active Beastmaster Ascension for massive hasty beats), but we play with a rule where we attack the person on our right and defend against the person on our left. I kill the guy playing Teneb, pass the turn. It comes back, I draw my second-to-last card, kill the guy playing Kiki-Jiki, pass the turn. Comes back to me, I draw my _very last card_, then kill the final other person, playing Tajic.



Sydri is interesting. Sharuum (at least my build) is so combo-oriented that a lot of draws are half of a combo that I don't want to expose, so they just sit in my hand. Sydri is more about synergy than "play this then this then win." Bident of Thassa + Caltrops = one-sided creature wraths. Mycosynth Lattice = 1-mana land destruction. Decklist: Sydri Artifact Fun (Commander / EDH MTG Deck)

Levitation and Grave Betrayal are in there right now, but will probably be cut for artifacts/artifact creatures at some point. Probably Etched Champion and Cranial Plating.


----------



## Xaios

pink freud said:


> Bident of Thassa + Caltrops = one-sided creature wraths.



Oh man, that is ....ing golden. 



pink freud said:


> Levitation and Grave Betrayal are in there right now, but will probably be cut for artifacts/artifact creatures at some point. Probably Etched Champion and Cranial Plating.



Oooh, funny story about Grave Betrayal. I was playing a game a few weeks ago running Derevi, another guy was piloting Oloro and he had Grave Betrayal in play. It was a big 6 player game, and late in the game it was pretty much a standstill because the guy playing Tariel, Reckoner of Souls had dropped Meekstone, so all everyone was doing was building their board state. We all had a crap ton of creatures.

Then the funniest thing happened. One of the other players (can't remember what he was running) wrathed all the creatures on the board. Oloro proceeds to get all the creatures that died. The turn gets passed to him. Before he can draw, the guy who wrathed the board tells him, "okay, now you're dead." Oloro looks on confused, not sure why he was dying. The other guy then points out that one of the creatures he stole with Grave Betrayal was Graveborn Muse. Because Grave Betrayal turns ALL the creatures you get into with it into zombies, he had more zombies than he did life. He proceeded to draw a ton of cards and subsequently die. Betrayal indeed.


----------



## pink freud

Xaios said:


> Oh man, that is ....ing golden.
> 
> 
> 
> Oooh, funny story about Grave Betrayal. I was playing a game a few weeks ago running Derevi, another guy was piloting Oloro and he had Grave Betrayal in play. It was a big 6 player game, and late in the game it was pretty much a standstill because the guy playing Tariel, Reckoner of Souls had dropped Meekstone, so all everyone was doing was building their board state. We all had a crap ton of creatures.
> 
> Then the funniest thing happened. One of the other players (can't remember what he was running) wrathed all the creatures on the board. Oloro proceeds to get all the creatures that died. The turn gets passed to him. Before he can draw, the guy who wrathed the board tells him, "okay, now you're dead." Oloro looks on confused, not sure why he was dying. The other guy then points out that one of the creatures he stole with Grave Betrayal was Graveborn Muse. Because Grave Betrayal turns ALL the creatures you get into with it into zombies, he had more zombies than he did life. He proceeded to draw a ton of cards and subsequently die. Betrayal indeed.



One of my blacker dreams is to do that to somebody but using Phage instead. There's another black enchantment that gives your opponents your creatures when they die, so that's always an option.


----------



## pink freud

WAT!?:





"Hey, EDH guys, we noticed that UG is pretty powerful, so to reinforce that thought..."


----------



## Xaios

pink freud said:


> WAT!?:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Hey, EDH guys, we noticed that UG is pretty powerful, so to reinforce that thought..."



To be honest, it doesn't really seem _that_ great in EDH. The maximum hand size thing is nice, but nothing that can't be accomplished by other cards. And unless you're casting spells with X in the cost, U/G tends to be pretty heavy on colored mana symbols, which will marginalize his second ability somewhat. The reason Omnath works as well as it does is because the mana is still green. If it weren't, it would definitely hurt. It's still a darn good utility creature, but I don't think it's particularly broken.

The new blue mythic creature that can remove counters to give you extra turns, it'll be unplayable in standard, but a buddy of mine has an Experiment Kraj deck that will _love_ that card.


----------



## Xaios

Journey Into Nyx trailer is actually pretty damn good:


----------



## pink freud

So after a few games with that Sydri deck I'm finding all sorts of strange things you can do. One game I had Sydri, Voltaic Construct and Gilded Lotus out. Make Gilded lotus a creature, tap for three mana, pay two to untap and so forth. Infinite mana. Play Mirrorworks, then play Prototype Portal, pay two to copy it. Under Prototype Portal #1 exile Blightsteel Colossus. Under Prototype Portal #2 exile Lightning Greave. Infinite one-shot robots with haste. Oops...


----------



## Xaios

That's hilarious! I actually really want to make a Sydri deck now. Thankfully I'll have lots of time this weekend to do so.


----------



## pink freud

The secret tech is if you play against people who like equipment. At my LGS there is a guy who loves Marath + Basilisk Collar. One blue mana = that collar is a creature and therefor can't be equiped to anything. What's groan-inducing is when somebody decides to play Bane of Progress after you just dropped a Mycosynth Lattice... so be aware of that.


----------



## Vostre Roy

I just bought myself a new starter deck and some booster pack. 

Shit has gone a long way since the Mirodin/Darksteel block lol


----------



## Xaios

pink freud said:


> The secret tech is if you play against people who like equipment. At my LGS there is a guy who loves Marath + Basilisk Collar. One blue mana = that collar is a creature and therefor can't be equiped to anything. What's groan-inducing is when somebody decides to play Bane of Progress after you just dropped a Mycosynth Lattice... so be aware of that.



I've run Karn, Silver Golem as anti-equipment tech a well, so I know how effective that can be.


----------



## pink freud

Pulled Godsend in my sealed pool. Best play: Equiped it to an Abhorrent Overlord. My opponent literally groaned


----------



## geese_com

I have a shoebox full of Magic cards with a couple decks, but I haven't played in years.


----------



## Xaios

At pre-release events, I went 4-1 and 3-1 in regular sealed events, then my team went 3-0 in two headed giant sealed.

Honestly, I felt my deck was strong enough to win the other sealeds as well. I made it to the final in the first one. Alas, I had to mulligan down to 4 cards in game 1, then I admittedly made a bad play which cost me game 2. The second sealed, I ended up getting endlessly mana screwed in round 1, but I kicked ass every other round.

I definitely had rare power on my side during the second sealed event, my GR deck had:
- foil Sylvan Caryatid
- Courser of Kruphix
- Eidolon of Blossoms
- Hero's Bane
- Hydra Broodmaster

I also pulled a Master of Waves and an Athreos, God of Passage that I couldn't even use. 

I also 4-0'd two drafts in the past couple months as well, which was nice. The first I was running another GR deck with rare power (Ember Swallower, TWO Polis Crushers, Hunter's Prowess and Boon Satyr) and just overall great cards for draft. The second, I achieved the epic Phenax draft deck mill. 

On a side-note, Hydra Broodmaster might just be good enough to make the cut in Omnath. Gelatinous Genesis stapled to a 7/7 for 6 mana that itself also gets bigger is no joke. A total investment of 21 mana (6 to cast, monstrosity for X = 7 (15 mana total)) gets you 63 power on board.

I made an Iroas EDH deck last night as well. It was... decent. It could definitely use some tweaking, although I'll warrant that I was also getting mana flooded while playing it. Playing at a 6 person table where 4 out of 5 opponents are running some combination of black and blue (including 2 Phenax decks) while the remaining person is playing mono-black certainly didn't help. The mana curve seems to center around the 4 drop slot while I think getting it down closer to the 3 drop slot would probably be better. Alas, the 4 mana options are a LOT more appropriate for Iroas' ability of WANTING to attack.


----------



## ittoa666

Yeah Broodmaster is enough power to smash a draft.


----------



## UV7BK4LIFE

The prerelease events here were on the same day as the celebration of our king, and the weather was too nice to stay in. 

I did have lots of fun last weekend with my new Commander deck: Horde of Notions elemental tribal 

TLDR: Turn 4 Horde of Notions ignoring Magus of the Moon and lategame smacked my opponent with 20/20 flying 

I played the luckiest game ever, check this out.
Turn 1: Vivid Grove 
Turn 2: Fetch -> Volcanic Island and Smokebraider

Now, I would go turn 3 land + Horde of Notions and swing with 5/5 vigilance, trample and haste, but my opponent before me starts his 3rd turn and plays Magus of the Moon.

Turn 3: Topdeck a Bloom Tender  , playing basic (!) forest and Bloom Tender
Turn 4: Play Island, tap for blue, tap Bloom Tender for Red/Green, tap Smokebraider for Black/White, play Horde, swing with Horde 

Later in the game I had Vigor and Supreme Exemplar , opponent attacks me with a 12/12 thanks to Eldrazi Conscription. Okay, the annihilator 2 was a bit annoying, but I ended up with a 20/20 Supreme Exemplar and on my turn I had my revenge.


----------



## Xaios

Nice. I've always wanted to try Horde of Notions. What are some of the more essential Elementals that you run?


----------



## UV7BK4LIFE

Xaios said:


> Nice. I've always wanted to try Horde of Notions. What are some of the more essential Elementals that you run?



Avenger of Zendikar with Phyrexian Altar = infinite rainbow mana.

Bloom Tender with Umbral Mantle = infi rainbow mana

Smokebraider = turn 3 Horde of Notions

Hateflayer + quicksilver elemental + bloom tender = Death to all.

And of course ingot chewer, wispmare, mulldrifter aethersnipe and shriekmaw for utility. Maelstrom Wanderer and mulldrifter give huge card advantage and with the infi Rainbow combos you can play your whole deck 

crib swap and consuming bonfire are recurring removal






_Posted from Sevenstring.org App for Android_


----------



## UV7BK4LIFE

I forgot to add, Grinning Ignus combo with Smokebraider and Intruder Alarm is infi elemental rainbow mana.


_Posted from Sevenstring.org App for Android_


----------



## Nile

So I was playing my mono black Maga against my friend and his slivers EDH deck. I drop a turn two Nantuko Shade and my other friend casually mentions to kill him only using Tuko-beats. So I beat for about 20 before he blocks and I have to start burning removal. I use Go For the Throat and Demonic Tutor to grab Murder to get rid of some shit he's blocking with and then I need to drop a Barter in Blood because of his two blockers. So I in one turn Barter In Blood to kill his creatures and my Nantuko Shade and then Profane Command him back plus two damage and win in two turns afterwards.

Nantuko Shade is the greatest black creature ever made.


----------



## Xaios

I played two games of EDH on Tuesday, won both.

Game 1, I was playing my Thraximundar "steal everything" deck full of Mind Control effects, clones and Act of Treason-esque effects. My opponents were running Athreos and Phenax. The play of the game as far as I'm concerned was when I stole both of their gods with Blatant Thievery. I then proceeded to mill Phenax to death with his own general. 

The second game I ran my Iroas deck, which is pure aggro. I had a good start, but then someone cast Barter In Blood and I ran out of gas. I did manage to recover, but it was all top-deck mode for a while. I drew and played Instigator Gang as my only creature (Iroas is out, but my devotion was still too low for him to be a creature). Then later in the turn cycle, the Phenax player drops a big fat Consuming Aberration, then the turn comes back to me. What do I top-deck? Zealous Conscripts. I steal Consuming Aberration, swing in with it, Conscripts and Instigator Gang. Being as he only has one creature and Iroas is in play, he can't block and dies to his own Consuming Abberation.

The bad thing I did there (although I couldn't have known this) was, when I swung in, I activated Windbrisk Heights to get Urabrask into play, which gave me enough devotion for Iroas to now be a creature. Naturally, later in the turn cycle, someone else casts Terminus, and being as Iroas is a creature at this point, he gets tucked along with the rest of my guys. So there I am, completely out of gas and with no creatures and no general. Thankfully, someone else cast Reforge the Soul which restocked me hand. I managed to keep pressure around the table from that point on to take the game. Seer's Sundial ended up being a big help, as it allowed me to redraw off land-drops, which usually resulted in drawing a card that was actually useful. The best part was hitting Sun Titan. That allowed me to bring back Loyal Retainers and start chaining him, resurrecting all the legendary creatures that Phenax had milled from me, including Gisela and Aurelia.


----------



## Nile

Xaios said:


> I played two games of EDH on Tuesday, won both.
> 
> Game 1, I was playing my Thraximundar "steal everything" deck full of Mind Control effects, clones and Act of Treason-esque effects. My opponents were running Athreos and Phenax. The play of the game as far as I'm concerned was when I stole both of their gods with Blatant Thievery. I then proceeded to mill Phenax to death with his own general.
> 
> The second game I ran my Iroas deck, which is pure aggro. I had a good start, but then someone cast Barter In Blood and I ran out of gas. I did manage to recover, but it was all top-deck mode for a while. I drew and played Instigator Gang as my only creature (Iroas is out, but my devotion was still too low for him to be a creature). Then later in the turn cycle, the Phenax player drops a big fat Consuming Aberration, then the turn comes back to me. What do I top-deck? Zealous Conscripts. I steal Consuming Aberration, swing in with it, Conscripts and Instigator Gang. Being as he only has one creature and Iroas is in play, he can't block and dies to his own Consuming Abberation.
> 
> The bad thing I did there (although I couldn't have known this) was, when I swung in, I activated Windbrisk Heights to get Urabrask into play, which gave me enough devotion for Iroas to now be a creature. Naturally, later in the turn cycle, someone else casts Terminus, and being as Iroas is a creature at this point, he gets tucked along with the rest of my guys. So there I am, completely out of gas and with no creatures and no general. Thankfully, someone else cast Reforge the Soul which restocked me hand. I managed to keep pressure around the table from that point on to take the game. Seer's Sundial ended up being a big help, as it allowed me to redraw off land-drops, which usually resulted in drawing a card that was actually useful. The best part was hitting Sun Titan. That allowed me to bring back Loyal Retainers and start chaining him, resurrecting all the legendary creatures that Phenax had milled from me, including Gisela and Aurelia.



Is the Instigator Gang for the extra beats in a creature heavy build or do you have a token kind of thing going?


----------



## pink freud

I've gone off the deep EDH spiky end.

I have this built: Just Ghave Things (Commander / EDH MTG Deck)

It's Ghave. Make all the tokens, gain all the life, make your opponents sac all the things. If you don't combo off you synergize so well it doesn't even matter.

And am working on this: Sen Stax (Commander / EDH MTG Deck)

Sen Triplets Stax. Because sometimes you just want to watch the world burn and your opponents cry.


----------



## Xaios

Nile said:


> Is the Instigator Gang for the extra beats in a creature heavy build or do you have a token kind of thing going?



Just extra beats. It's a quasi-Battle Cry ability (I also have 4 creatures with actual Battle Cry) which is welcome in an aggro deck where I don't have to worry about my creatures dying when they attack (to say nothing of the chances being dramatically less that they'll actually get blocked), and it's a good way to force extra damage in. Plus, on the off chance it flips, it gives +3 power to all attackers.

It's definitely a creature-heavy build though, 41 creatures including Iroas.

Possibly the best part of when I milled Phenax with his own general:

Phenax player: *exasperatedly* "Oh my God..."
Me: "No... MY GOD!"


----------



## pink freud

Played somebody trying out Iroas as well. First game he curves out perfectly into his general, then Heliod, then Aurelia, then Boros Battleshaper. That was gross.

Second game though... really showed what Boros does when it doesn't curve out before people can get answers out.

On another note, some guy was running a Athreos Relentless Rats deck. It was funny. I think Athreos would make an awesome Shadowborn Apostle deck after seeing his deck in action.


----------



## Xaios

pink freud said:


> I think Athreos would make an awesome Shadowborn Apostle deck after seeing his deck in action.



Actually, someone on MTGS posted a thread with that exact idea.


----------



## Nile

Shit yes.


----------



## Xaios

Uh, wut?


----------



## Nile

Xaios said:


> Uh, wut?



What you wuting about? It's Hevy Devy on fvcking Force. Bow before it.


----------



## Xaios

I suspected it might be Devy, but the sides of the skullet seemed a bit too poofy, as if they'd gotten a bit too close to Dee Snider.


----------



## ittoa666




----------



## pink freud

Played a "Sealed" Commander tournament at LRRCon, ended up playing the Grixis deck. Entry was $20, so essentially I paid $20 for a True-Name Nemesis plus 99 other cards. Woot. Also, those precon 2013 decks are terrible at actually ending games. If I hadn't played Nekusar instead of the default general the game would have taken four hours instead of the measly TWO it did.


----------



## Xaios

Yeah, pre-con decks aren't exactly designed to kill quickly. The only one I'm aware of with a big combo kill option is the Esper deck (Serra Avatar + Disciple of Griselbrand + Sanguine Bond).


----------



## pink freud

You can also pull that off with the Wall of Reverence without having to sac as well. That wall plus the Serra Avatar was what made the game unwinnable.


----------



## Xaios

Haha, yeah, Serra Avatar and Wall of Reverence is pretty gross. It doesn't help that the pre-con decks have *very* little in the way of creature kill. As a result, you end up with these gigantic battlecruiser attrition wars.


----------



## Xaios

I learned one lesson last night: Don't play tables of more than 4 with a Voltron general unless you're also playing blue. Last night, I played my Sigarda deck against Sygg River Cutthroat, Phenax, Athreos and Oloro. I even managed to kill the Sygg and Phenax players. However, facing up against that much blue and black, especially while playing a general as obviously threatening as Sigarda, was just too much for a non-blue deck to overcome, especially since I was obvious public enemy #1 from the very start of the game. People generally don't like playing against generals that can't be removed, and with 3/4 of other decks being in the best color for draw power and card advantage along with 4/4 other decks being in the colors for tutors, it meant that people were expending everything they could muster in order to deal with me.

Ultimately the problem with a deck like that in this kind of setting is that its power goes up in a linear curve. It has better starts but needs to finish earlier, which becomes exponentially more difficult the more people are sitting at a table. Combo/control decks, conversely, start slower but gain power exponentially over time.


----------



## pink freud

Are you running the G/W hate-bear package? Teeg alone has shut down many of my U/B shenanigans, and I've come to decide that Grand Abolisher should go in every white deck ever. Also the Privileged Position/Sterling Grove/Greater Auramancy lock is super good.


----------



## Xaios

pink freud said:


> Are you running the G/W hate-bear package? Teeg alone has shut down many of my U/B shenanigans, and I've come to decide that Grand Abolisher should go in every white deck ever. Also the Privileged Position/Sterling Grove/Greater Auramancy lock is super good.



I've got Privileged Position and Sterling Grove in, couldn't find a spot for Greater Auramancy though.

I do run some hate, although not Grand Abolisher or Gaddock Teeg (although I'm starting to think running him would be a good idea). I've got City of Solitude, Linvala Keeper of Silence, Null Rod, Stony Silence and Aura of Silence.

I at least finally got to make use of the Serra's Sanctum that I purchased a while ago. I just never seemed to draw it before. And it justified its presence here.


----------



## Asrial

Just to mention it:

Conspiracy is going to be way too effing awesome!
Not gonna post all the spoilers, because there's a lot, but...
















How awesome is THAT?!

And two reprints that are all kinds of magnificent:







I am so much buying a display.


----------



## pink freud

My favorite so far is Plea for Power. Combine that with the copy-spell conspiracy, live the dream!


----------



## Mason Bruce

So I played Yu-Gi-Oh and the pokemon tgc, looking to get back into card games, how to I get started in MTG?


----------



## Asrial

Oh son, you are going to step into possibly the most fun card game ever!

Easiest way to start is with the Duels of the Planeswalkers-franchise, which teaches you basic rulesets and mechanics quite efficiently. It won't teach you how to be a TCG mastermind, but it will set you up for the paper-version.
The newest edition of the game will be released within a month or so (always comes out at that time), so if you can wait, you'll have the newest, freshest cards to play with.

Once you're ready to play for real, go visit your local game shop. They host what's called "Friday Night Magic", or FNM for short, where you either play with a set deck you bring from home (constructed) or with a deck drafted from newly opened packs (limited). The most players in these stores are quite nice people. You can bump into the randomly occurring a'hole, but those can either be reported to the store, or if it IS the store, report the store and find a better.

The best way to step into getting a collection is buying a booster display of the most recent core set, which in a few months will be M15, as well as a "land station". From there, you can start building up.


----------



## Xaios

So, the next block is confirmed to be "Khans of Tarkir." It looks to be based on medieval Mongolia (as in Genghis Khan), lore-wise. Apparently it's Sarkhan Vol's home plane. The little bit we know about it is that it once had dragons, but they died out, hence Sarkhan's fascination with them.


----------



## pink freud

There's also rumor that it is going to be a wedge block, based on the color of the promo-art and the insinuation that fetch-lands are getting a reprint.


----------



## Xaios

pink freud said:


> There's also rumor that it is going to be a wedge block, based on the color of the promo-art and the insinuation that fetch-lands are getting a reprint.



A wedge based block would be *super* cool, but Aaron Forsythe at WOTC has heavily implied that the earliest we would possibly see a fetchland reprint is in 2015's new block. Granted, a wedge block would open up other interesting avenues such as Wedge-based tri-lands similar to those from Shards of Alara, or better yet, a cycle of cards modeled after Murmuring Bosk where you have a land with one basic land type, as well as the ability to generate two other colors while pinging for one (albeit without Murmuring Bosk's tribal affinity). That way they're tutorable if Wizards does happen to reprint fetchlands in a later set while KTK is still standard-legal.

EDIT: Also, KTK has what is easily the most interesting set logo in a looong time. Granted, I do get sick of the completely symmetrical set symbols. The last non-symmetrical set symbol was for Scars of Mirrodin, and that was nothing special. The last really distinctive ones are from Lorwyn block.


----------



## Nile

Xaios said:


> EDIT: Also, KTK has what is easily the most interesting set logo in a looong time. Granted, I do get sick of the completely symmetrical set symbols. The last non-symmetrical set symbol was for Scars of Mirrodin, and that was nothing special. The last really distinctive ones are from Lorwyn block.



THIS.

Also, am excite as hell for a Mongolian theme.


----------



## ittoa666

I'm sick of everyone saying that this new set is a return to Kamigawa.


----------



## Xaios

I haven't seen anyone saying that. 

EDIT: Went to MTGS and I did find a small speculation thread about it. Certainly not a consensus though.


----------



## pink freud

ittoa666 said:


> I'm sick of everyone saying that this new set is a return to Kamigawa.



Why, because the last few blocks have been too powerful?


----------



## Nile

pink freud said:


> Why, because the last few blocks have been too powerful?



Nice.


----------



## pink freud

Hilarious draft last night. I'd picked up a couple Market Festivals because I'd drafted some big green fatties, and in the BTG pack I picked up... Chromanticore! I manage to grab an Ordeal of Nylea, Nylea's Presence and an Astral Cornucopia for fixing in addition to the Market Festivals. Went 2-2, but had fun doing it. Most hilarious play was bestowing Chromanitcore onto my Centaur Battlemaster, which had the Ordeal put on it, making it a 14/14.


----------



## Xaios

I went 2-2 in draft last night as well. It was a really nice W/B Heroic deck that I felt deserved a lot better, it could have easily been a 4-0 deck if *I WASN'T CONSTANTLY GETTING MANA SCREWED!!*  

Seriously, I'm THAT guy, the one that everyone knows gets mana-screwed ALL the time.


----------



## ittoa666

Ended up popping a box of conspiracy and pulling all of the value. 2 explorations, stifle, some other nifty stuff, and a foily brainstorm. Well, that's like 70 bucks right there. Opened more packs later and got a foil exploration and another stifle. 

Success.


----------



## pink freud

I did three Conspiracy drafts today.

Notable pulls:

Phage
Edric
2x Basandra
Reya Dawnbringer
Rout
Fact or Fiction
Exploration
Coercive Portal
Council's Judgement
Decimate
Squirl Nest
Swords to Plowshares
and a play-set of Brainstorms


----------



## Xaios

I need to get a foil Exploration now thanks to those bastards.


----------



## Toxic Dover

I quit playing in late 2004, and just recently started a job where half of my coworkers play... Man, things have really changed since the Darksteel days, haha. Any good reads and/or tips for getting back into MTG with the new rules and play types?


----------



## pink freud

Toxic Dover said:


> I quit playing in late 2004, and just recently started a job where half of my coworkers play... Man, things have really changed since the Darksteel days, haha. Any good reads and/or tips for getting back into MTG with the new rules and play types?



I learned by watching others play. Since you've been gone the relevant changes would mostly be that combat damage doesn't use the stack (if it did when you played), so you can't block -> sac your creature -> still kill their dude, and the Legendary Rule is now (paraphrased) "Each player may have the same legendary on the battlefield, but one player may not have 2 or more of the same legendary on the battlefield unless a card explicitly says otherwise. Should a player have 2 or more of the same legendary on the battlefield the player must chose one and sacrifice the rest as a state-based action". You can also not have 2 of the same planeswalker type out at once, even if they are 2 different names. You can have a Jace and a Lilliana, but not 2 Jaces.


----------



## Xaios

A good refresher to get back into the swing of things would be playing the latest incarnation of Duel of the Planeswalkers. From there, try attending a draft at your local game store on Fridays.

Also... *MINE!*






Goodbye non-foil Exploration, you served me well.


----------



## Toxic Dover

pink freud said:


> I learned by watching others play. Since you've been gone the relevant changes would mostly be that combat damage doesn't use the stack (if it did when you played), so you can't block -> sac your creature -> still kill their dude, and the Legendary Rule is now (paraphrased) "Each player may have the same legendary on the battlefield, but one player may not have 2 or more of the same legendary on the battlefield unless a card explicitly says otherwise. Should a player have 2 or more of the same legendary on the battlefield the player must chose one and sacrifice the rest as a state-based action". You can also not have 2 of the same planeswalker type out at once, even if they are 2 different names. You can have a Jace and a Lilliana, but not 2 Jaces.



Oh wow, cool. Yeah, damage used the stack when I played. 

I quit playing way back when because everyone I knew that played either moved or got tied up with life, and then the comic shop we played at shut down, lol. I looked on the Wizards of the Coast site and found that there are a few shops around here that do Friday Night Magic, though, so I'm excited to be able to play again! Gonna have to knock the dust off, though, haha


----------



## Toxic Dover

Xaios said:


> A good refresher to get back into the swing of things would be playing the latest incarnation of Duel of the Planeswalkers. From there, try attending a draft at your local game store on Fridays.
> 
> Also... *MINE!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Goodbye non-foil Exploration, you served me well.



Woah, when did they reprint Exploration?


----------



## ittoa666

Xaios said:


> Sexy foily exploration



Welcome to the club sir.


----------



## Xaios

Toxic Dover said:


> Woah, when did they reprint Exploration?



It's from a just-released draft-oriented special set called Conspiracy.


----------



## pink freud

Toxic Dover said:


> Woah, when did they reprint Exploration?



A recent special set called Conspiracy. They reprinted a bunch of older cards, including one dear to my heart, Phage the Untouchable.


----------



## Nile

pink freud said:


> A recent special set called Conspiracy. They reprinted a bunch of older cards, including one dear to my heart, Phage the Untouchable.



Pulled a foil one. Don't have the means to make use of it lol.


----------



## pink freud

Nile said:


> Pulled a foil one. Don't have the means to make use of it lol.



Step one: Torpor Orb.
Step two: Reanimation.
Step three: Phasing and Unblockable.


----------



## Nile

pink freud said:


> Step one: Torpor Orb.
> Step two: Reanimation.
> Step three: Phasing and Unblockable.



Yeap. Except I don't have the EDH deck to do so, just an Entomb.


----------



## chickenxnuggetz91

I usually can't get into trading card games, but MtG is something I can get into. It's one of my guilty pleasures for sure if you can call it that. My girlfriend kicks my ass at it. Although, I did buy her the most OP deck. I don't play it so much though.....makes me want to go out and buy different cards after a few games. Same stale strategies can get boring.

Edit: I used to read the books when I was younger. I really need to go grab a couple. I like that it's different authors for each book so you get a different writing style each time.


----------



## pink freud

On another note, M15 looks like it will be a blast. I'm tired of drafting Theros block, mostly because Journey isn't that interesting when combined with BNG and Theros. Triple Journey is hilarious though.


----------



## Xaios

Originally I thought that M15 looked like shit, but some of the most recent spoilers have been pretty cool. "Chief Engineer" makes the johnny in me's head spin.

Also, the fact that I'll be able to use my $80 original Chord of Calling foil in standard FTW!


----------



## pink freud

So, last draft of the format, draft:
Master of the Feast (Foil)
Extinguish All Hope
Asphyxiate
Bile Blight
Nightmarish End
Eater of Hope
Pharika's Cure

I felt so bad for a couple of my opponents when I curved out my removal perfectly, played out Master and a Thoughtrender Lamia, and then wrathed the board of all non-enchantment creatures. Unfortunately I didn't pickup any Squelching Leeches or Garys, otherwise this would have been even more hilarious. All and all, it was a fun send-off to the format.


----------



## Xaios

Currently in M15 sealed, 3-0 so far. Built a rockin Boros deck. Not a lot of rares, but my uncommon and commons are of high quality. I just beat a deck that had 2 Ob Nixilis, Aetherspouts, Indulgent Tormentor, Liliana Vess and Polymorphist's Jest.

UPDATE: Finished 1st, 5-0!


----------



## pink freud

Xaios said:


> Currently in M15 sealed, 3-0 so far. Built a rockin Boros deck. Not a lot of rares, but my uncommon and commons are of high quality. I just beat a deck that had 2 Ob Nixilis, Aetherspouts, Indulgent Tormentor, Liliana Vess and Polymorphist's Jest.
> 
> UPDATE: Finished 1st, 5-0!



Did you Oreskos Swiftclaw them out? I swear, I'd build a deck that was just 25 of those guys and 15 plains if it was possible. I'm off for two pre-releases in a row, here's hoping I do as well as you did!


----------



## Xaios

Oreskos Swiftclaw was definitely a player, had 3 of them.


----------



## pink freud

Didn't do as well, went 2-1-1 and 2-2, but on the plus side I got enough value to trade off for a Batterskull, an Entomb and a Sensei's Divining Top.

I faced a Jace, and he wasn't that impressive. Scuttling Doom Engine was terrifying, and I felt bad for my opponents when I resolved a Soul of Theros.


----------



## Xaios

Went 3-1 in a second normal sealed event running W/B. Then went 2-1 in 2HG sealed, also running W/B while my opponent ran R/G. The loss was because our opponent gained 46 life off of 2 Congregates.


----------



## Asrial

I went 1-3 at the midnight pre-release.

Had a very ambiguous sealed pool. Got some very expensive, very bomby rares in RUG colors, including a shivan reef, a Chandra and an Ætherspouts. Expensive bombs being Colossal Whale, Phytotitan (promo) and Hornet queen. My commons and uncommons was very meh in the colors, the W/B colors was good, but I ultimately went with RUG and "stay alive until bombs are online".


Yeah...


----------



## ittoa666

I did ok in the prerelease. Ended up building UB Jalira revolving around black cat, waste not, and soul of innistrad. Think I went 3-2.


----------



## Xaios

There was one game that just went PERFECTLY for me in the tourny in which I went 3-1. Nothing on turn 1, turn 2 Spirit Bonds, turn 3 Oreskos Swiftclaw + make a spirit, turn 4 swing for 4 damage then DOUBLE Raise the Alarm, turn 5 Sanctified Charge and swing for 20 damage.


----------



## lelandbowman3

Everyone's thoughts on blue/black in M15? My favorite two colors, so yeah...


----------



## pink freud

lelandbowman3 said:


> Everyone's thoughts on blue/black in M15? My favorite two colors, so yeah...



They should be, being the two best colors in magic


----------



## Nile

Bought five NM Force of Wills. Yus.

~$371


----------



## lelandbowman3

pink freud said:


> They should be, being the two best colors in magic



Yeah, but they're not what aggressive/competitive players like. Like mono red, or red/black destruction or red/white aggro.
Once you get that serious it's just not as fun anymore. When you try to win by turn 5, I mean, come on.
Dimir was my favorite guild from the 2013 block. It was fun, and made the game really interesting, but everyone's playing Boros and Gruul just for the fast wins.


----------



## lelandbowman3

Personally, I really liked the Ashiok PW also.


----------



## pink freud

lelandbowman3 said:


> Yeah, but they're not what aggressive/competitive players like. Like mono red, or red/black destruction or red/white aggro.
> Once you get that serious it's just not as fun anymore. When you try to win by turn 5, I mean, come on.
> Dimir was my favorite guild from the 2013 block. It was fun, and made the game really interesting, but everyone's playing Boros and Gruul just for the fast wins.



Dimir has some fast wins, but they're all in older formats.

How does T1 Dark Ritual -> Entomb -> Reanimate Jin-Gitaxias sound?

Or in mono blue: Having Stasis out with Hidden Strings cyphered onto an Invisible Stalker?

Standard is too much about turning creatures sideways for us more degenerate players to appreciate.


----------



## Xaios

lelandbowman3 said:


> Yeah, but they're not what aggressive/competitive players like. Like mono red, or red/black destruction or red/white aggro.
> Once you get that serious it's just not as fun anymore. When you try to win by turn 5, I mean, come on.
> Dimir was my favorite guild from the 2013 block. It was fun, and made the game really interesting, but everyone's playing Boros and Gruul just for the fast wins.



I dunno, Standard is actually pretty slow right now compared to what it was this time last year. The fastest deck right now is probably Mono Blue Devotion, while this time last year there was Naya Blitz to contend with, which was definitely faster. Boros doesn't have the toolbox right now to be super aggressive like it has in the past. The litmus test right now though is Mono Black Devotion, which is not a particularly fast deck. It generally wins by a) Pack Rat, which doesn't generally come online until turn 5, b) Grey Merchant of Asphodel, and c) attrition.



lelandbowman3 said:


> Personally, I really liked the Ashiok PW also.



Indeed. I actually made certain to acquire a playset of Ashioks quite early in the game, because I believed he had greatness (and because holy hell he was AWESOME in sealed, you haven't lived until you've exiled two Fanatic of Mogis in one activation ). I've actually been somewhat let down, but that's because B/U control hasn't really been much of a thing since Theros, with control generally gravitating to W/U for the power of Sphinx's Revelation. If he finds the right deck, he'll be a force.


----------



## pink freud

Xaios said:


> Indeed. I actually made certain to acquire a playset of Ashioks quite early in the game, because I believed he had greatness (and because holy hell he was AWESOME in sealed, you haven't lived until you've exiled two Fanatic of Mogis in one activation ). I've actually been somewhat let down, but that's because B/U control hasn't really been much of a thing since Theros, with control generally gravitating to W/U for the power of Sphinx's Revelation. If he finds the right deck, he'll be a force.



Ashiok rejects your notions of gender. Ashiok is looking forward to when RTR rotates out.


----------



## Xaios

As a matter of fact, Wizards DID in fact put in official print that Ashiok is, or at least at some point _was_, a he.


----------



## lelandbowman3

I play anything that will make the game last and be more interesting and satisfying. There's nothing like throwing a curve to everyone. Like my green/black reanimator in which I pull out Stormtide Leviathan or Blazing Archon. thanks Graveborn  )

Speaking of: Does anyone have a used GB premium deck they're willing to part with? I dont much care for the sealed thats people are trying to sell on ebay. I just want to play it.


----------



## loqtrall

Mill decks may not have a high win rate in casual play, but a couple Consuming Abberations on the feild in the late game when your opponent has 30~ cards in their graveyard will always put the game on edge. Milling and Reanimator always make things more interesting. 

The last competitive deck I used was a white/green/blue SoS deck based on the 2013 MTG World Tour wnner's deck. My delve into competitive MTG didn't last long. Every time I'd play standard at my local MTG outlet, there're always like 7 or 8 people who are SUPER competitive, to the point they'd attempt to make rules to keep from losing and we'd have to call officials to judge a non-official duel. Once I switched to casual "any card" matches, I started enjoying MTG a lot more. Not only were players more friendly, but the matches were a lot more spontaneous because of the lack of a standard format, and the goal was to have fun, not win. That's why I loved playing with Mr. Leland up there, we played the game for the reason it was made: Fun.


----------



## pink freud

I had a Magic-Christmas-Land play last night:

Six mana open, tap four (leaving open a black and another) and cast Eureka. I put down a couple signets, Leyline of Anticipation and a Top. Everybody else puts down giant scary creatures. After all the triggers are done resolving? Damnation. Feels good


----------



## Xaios

pink freud said:


> I had a Magic-Christmas-Land play last night:
> 
> Six mana open, tap four (leaving open a black and another) and cast Eureka. I put down a couple signets, Leyline of Anticipation and a Top. Everybody else puts down giant scary creatures. After all the triggers are done resolving? Damnation. Feels good



Ultimate rope-a-dope, awesome.


----------



## lelandbowman3

Possible new format I'm wanting to try? Sort of like a "Go-Fish" style: all spells and permanents are shuffled together in one pile and mana the same in another. It'd be interesting in a 3+ player game, I think. More possibilities and more options. Idk, just something I'm the works.


----------



## lelandbowman3

Clarifying my post: GB=Graveborn


----------



## Xaios

lelandbowman3 said:


> Clarifying my post: GB=Graveborn



Alas, my cards from my set of Graveborn are in use.

So, recent news: Khans of Tarkir has been confirmed to be a tri-color themed block like Alara, but focusing on enemy wedges instead of allied shards. I'm honestly kinda surprised by this. Some people took the color palettes of the original spoiled artwork for Khans to mean that it would be a wedge-themed block, but I assumed that these people were grasping at straws (as many people do early in spoiler season) in an effort to identify a theme with a very limited amount of information. Frankly, I'm surprised that they were right. There was more compelling evidence that M13 was going to be a multi-colored core set given early spoilers (the very first card of which was spoiled was Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker), and that turned out to be bogus. I'm also surprised they going for a multi-colored theme so quickly after Return to Ravnica block.


----------



## lelandbowman3

Xaios said:


> Alas, my cards from my set of Graveborn are in use.
> 
> So, recent news: Khans of Tarkir has been confirmed to be a tri-color themed block like Alara, but focusing on enemy wedges instead of allied shards. I'm honestly kinda surprised by this. Some people took the color palettes of the original spoiled artwork for Khans to mean that it would be a wedge-themed block, but I assumed that these people were grasping at straws (as many people do early in spoiler season) in an effort to identify a theme with a very limited amount of information. Frankly, I'm surprised that they were right. There was more compelling evidence that M13 was going to be a multi-colored core set given early spoilers (the very first card of which was spoiled was Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker), and that turned out to be bogus. I'm also surprised they going for a multi-colored theme so quickly after Return to Ravnica block.



The guy from my local store said that mono-black was what was winning from the last set, so I can only hope?


----------



## Jzbass25

loqtrall said:


> Mill decks may not have a high win rate in casual play, but a couple Consuming Abberations on the feild in the late game when your opponent has 30~ cards in their graveyard will always put the game on edge. Milling and Reanimator always make things more interesting.
> 
> The last competitive deck I used was a white/green/blue SoS deck based on the 2013 MTG World Tour wnner's deck. My delve into competitive MTG didn't last long. Every time I'd play standard at my local MTG outlet, there're always like 7 or 8 people who are SUPER competitive, to the point they'd attempt to make rules to keep from losing and we'd have to call officials to judge a non-official duel. Once I switched to casual "any card" matches, I started enjoying MTG a lot more. Not only were players more friendly, but the matches were a lot more spontaneous because of the lack of a standard format, and the goal was to have fun, not win. That's why I loved playing with Mr. Leland up there, we played the game for the reason it was made: Fun.



*Should I get back into magic? I miss collecting and strategizing but I doubt I can make money like I used to because I have no time to play tournaments.*

In my area people would try and claim something wasn't legal and I would have to get a judge to inform them that I can play a card at this time and yes you just lost your creature (or whatever it was). Those people were usually the ones with decks they copied off some French guy without learning all the ins and outs of the deck. I did win a lot of cards and made a a pretty good amount of money selling the extras (there were a lot of money cards when I played) which was nice, but not necessarily enjoyable always. 

Also, I never really could enjoy playing, if I tried to play casual I'd end up pissing at least someone off because I just had better card knowledge (it was more enjoyable when all of us were beginners). I even ended up beating a friend on turn 2 with the luckiest hand in the world with a kuldotha red deck. And if I played seriously you just got super stinky guys trying to fight your moves at every turn.

I found more enjoyment from collecting, opening packs, meeting the nice (nonstinky) people at matches. I even met a few SC pros playing MTG and they're great. Also I think coming up with strategies and learning others' strategies was fun, my friend and I would come up with decks for weeks on end and test them out locally then if it did well try some tournaments with it. Also I had a large collection of full-art lands that were sexy, I'd loan them out to buddies for tournaments if they wanted (except the foils I kept mint). My tournament buddies and I had a giant box of loaner cards at one point for tournaments, if someone needed something that we weren't using then ask if you can borrow or go to the loaner box and see if it's there.


----------



## Xaios

lelandbowman3 said:


> The guy from my local store said that mono-black was what was winning from the last set, so I can only hope?



Indeed, Mono-Black Devotion has been a top contender ever since Theros dropped in late September 2013. However, it loses some of its biggest cards (Pack Rat, Mutavault, Underworld Connections, Doom Blade, Ultimate Price, Desecration Demon, Lifebane Zombie) on rotation, so after Khans debuts I don't think it will be the powerhouse it once was. M15 gave it Sign In Blood and Urborg, but that's really about it. Gray Merchant of Asphodel is still a fantastic card, but it's entirely possible that it just won't have the permanent support to be dominant like it has been.



Jzbass25 said:


> *Should I get back into magic? I miss collecting and strategizing but I doubt I can make money like I used to because I have no time to play tournaments.*
> 
> In my area people would try and claim something wasn't legal and I would have to get a judge to inform them that I can play a card at this time and yes you just lost your creature (or whatever it was). Those people were usually the ones with decks they copied off some French guy without learning all the ins and outs of the deck. I did win a lot of cards and made a a pretty good amount of money selling the extras (there were a lot of money cards when I played) which was nice, but not necessarily enjoyable always.
> 
> Also, I never really could enjoy playing, if I tried to play casual I'd end up pissing at least someone off because I just had better card knowledge (it was more enjoyable when all of us were beginners). I even ended up beating a friend on turn 2 with the luckiest hand in the world with a kuldotha red deck. And if I played seriously you just got super stinky guys trying to fight your moves at every turn.
> 
> I found more enjoyment from collecting, opening packs, meeting the nice (nonstinky) people at matches. I even met a few SC pros playing MTG and they're great. Also I think coming up with strategies and learning others' strategies was fun, my friend and I would come up with decks for weeks on end and test them out locally then if it did well try some tournaments with it. Also I had a large collection of full-art lands that were sexy, I'd loan them out to buddies for tournaments if they wanted (except the foils I kept mint). My tournament buddies and I had a giant box of loaner cards at one point for tournaments, if someone needed something that we weren't using then ask if you can borrow or go to the loaner box and see if it's there.



There's definitely something to be said for this mindset, and I'm kinda the same way. That's why EDH is my preferred format. Generally speaking, it's not a competitive format. Sure, there will always be some rules-lawyering involved, but that's because EDH lends itself to some really whacky, complex board states so a good understanding of the rules is a requirement. Plus, it's more conducive to the mindset of a collector (as opposed to the treadmill that is Standard) because it allows the use of cards from all eras of the game.


----------



## loqtrall

Xaios said:


> There's definitely something to be said for this mindset, and I'm kinda the same way. That's why EDH is my preferred format. Generally speaking, it's not a competitive format. Sure, there will always be some rules-lawyering involved, but that's because EDH lends itself to some really whacky, complex board states so a good understanding of the rules is a requirement. Plus, it's more conducive to the mindset of a collector (as opposed to the treadmill that is Standard) because it allows the use of cards from all eras of the game.


 
Thank you! In my opinion, playing EDH with friendly people with good education of the rules is THE best and most fun way to play MTG. I can't tell you how many tryhard, competitive jerks almost ruined MTG for me when I played standard. They're way too in to the game and focus on winning over having a fun duel. I got introduced to EDH, a couple dudes helped me build my first deck for it, and it was so laid back and fun. The only bad part about it was hearing the standard players bitch about rules and losing across the room.


----------



## pink freud

Xaios said:


> Plus, it's more conducive to the mindset of a collector (as opposed to the treadmill that is Standard) because it allows the use of cards from all eras of the game.



And you only need one of any single card (per deck). Instead of getting a full playset of every fancy land you can settle for one of each per cycle. That's where the money hole is in EDH. The more colors you are playing the more expensive a _consistently fast_ manabase is.

As an aside, I expect MB to move away from the Gary-bombing and move to a more control based build. Waste Not is an interesting card, I'm sure somebody will break it.


----------



## Xaios

Waste Not might be playable in Modern where it has a whole suite of good discard. As it stands, the only good discard that will be available after rotation will be Thoughtseize. Powerful as it is, it's not good enough to turn Waste Not into a build-around card. Heck, a friend of mine tried building it in the current Standard format with Thoughtseize and Duress. It didn't make it very far. 

Card could be bonkers with Legacy support like Hymn to Tourach though.


----------



## ittoa666

I wanna play blightning with waste not.


----------



## pink freud

ittoa666 said:


> I wanna play blightning with waste not.



Pft, Wheel of Fortune with Waste Not, in multiplayer!

/every Nekusar player in the last month.


----------



## Xaios

Yeah, Nekusar players will love Waste Not.


----------



## Asrial

I'm right now at my parents on vacation, but I made an order online at a danish card sales community...
This is waiting for me at home:





It's not foil, but FINALLY I have my quartet of green stuff! First being Defense of the Heart.
And hey, only gave 30&#8364; for the three, in decent quality even.


----------



## pink freud

Don't forget Green Sun's Zenith or Natural Order! There's also an elf that has the same ability as Survival.


----------



## Nile

Genesis Wave is the greenest of the green.


----------



## pink freud

Nile said:


> Genesis Wave is the greenest of the green.



I think Primal Surge takes it. Have a deck where that is the only non-permanent and put in Concordant Crossroads. Ten mana -> flip deck over -> turn deck sideways.


----------



## Xaios

pink freud said:


> I think Primal Surge takes it. Have a deck where that is the only non-permanent and put in Concordant Crossroads. Ten mana -> flip deck over -> turn deck sideways.



A better choice for Primal Surge would be Laboratory Maniac and Azami, then you don't run the risk of not having enough power to table in one turn, and having more than one wizard will mean you won't get hosed by timely spot removal.


----------



## pink freud

Xaios said:


> A better choice for Primal Surge would be Laboratory Maniac and Azami, then you don't run the risk of not having enough power to table in one turn, and having more than one wizard will mean you won't get hosed by timely spot removal.



Well yeah, but that's not _Green_. And if you flip Craterhoof Behemoth and Avenger of Zendikar and you don't have enough power somebody gained WAY too much life. Stick in a couple infect creatures perhaps?

If we're doing the Lab Maniac thing I'd much prefer to go the Show and Tell -> Omniscience -> Enter the Infinite route. That's actually the main wincon in my Damia deck (besides getting people to scoop to a turn three reanimated Jin Gitaxias or cycling Woodfall Primus with undying off of Greater Good and blowing up all of their lands).


----------



## Asrial

pink freud said:


> Don't forget Green Sun's Zenith or Natural Order! There's also an elf that has the same ability as Survival.


I already got a GSZ, and it's thriving in my Thromok deck right now.
I don't know about natural order, could be a consider, but... It's not cheap. 
Fauna shaman is on my to-buy list, along with Oracle of Mul Daya and Siege-gang Commander.

Should I btw post a decklist+explanation for Thromok?


----------



## Nile

Asrial said:


> I already got a GSZ, and it's thriving in my Thromok deck right now.
> I don't know about natural order, could be a consider, but... It's not cheap.
> Fauna shaman is on my to-buy list, along with Oracle of Mul Daya and Siege-gang Commander.
> 
> Should I btw post a decklist+explanation for Thromok?



Better include Fling. But yes.


----------



## Nile

So, I've boughten a Gaea's Cradle for $112 and a Mana Crypt for $140.

I think I have a problem.

Edit: Forgot about two 8th Edition foil Birds of Paradise for $61. 

And a Wasteland for $60. o.o


----------



## Asrial

Nile said:


> Better include Fling. But yes.


It actually doesn't! I'll post my cockatrice decklist, as it's mostly identical, lands are differing.

*Thromok the OMNOM*
*Manabase:*
1 Fire-Lit Thicket
1 Karplusan Forest
1 Strip Mine
1 Wasteland
1 Rootbound Crag
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Kher Keep
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Terrain Generator
1 Stomping Ground
1 Taiga
13 Forest
10 Mountain
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Mosswort Bridge

*Mana accell.:*
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Reflection
1 Cultivate
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Wood Elves
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Growth Spasm
1 Skyshroud Claim
1 Awakening Zone
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Yavimaya Elder
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Citanul Hierophants
1 Garruk Wildspeaker

*Combo pieces:*
1 Grab the Reins
1 Electropotence
1 Warstorm Surge
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Anger
1 Brawn
1 Survival of the Fittest
1 Xenagos, God of Revels
1 Fauna Shaman
1 Lightning Greaves

*Digging, drawing and goodstuff:*
1 Defense of the Heart
1 Fecundity
1 Skullclamp
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Tooth and Nail
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Fierce Empath
1 Heartwood Storyteller
1 Skullmulcher
1 Harmonize
1 Wheel of Fate
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Chord of Calling

*Protection of combo+removal:*
1 Asceticism
1 Eternal Witness
1 Acidic Slime
1 Deadwood Treefolk
1 Artifact Mutation
1 Chain Reaction
1 Vexing Shusher
1 Blasphemous Act
1 Beast Within
1 Chaos Warp
1 Bow of Nylea

*The dinner:*
1 Avenger of Zendikar
1 Doubling Season
1 Mycoloth
1 Primal Vigor
1 Dragonlair Spider
1 Hornet Queen
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Nacatl War-Pride
1 Ulasht, the Hate Seed
1 Wolfbriar Elemental
1 Wort, the Raidmother
1 Sprout Swarm
1 Deranged Hermit
1 Siege-Gang Commander

Gameplan is as follows: Thin out the deck ASAP, use shaman or survival to put anger/brawn in the grave, then squee to get any essential creature you need. Plonk down any fatty you see, wheel and draw as if your life depended on it, generate tokens, eat and then zap down your opponents.
This deck is more combo than aggro, so be prepared to be a sitting duck for a while. If you can though, you can shoot down 3-4 players in one swing, easily!


----------



## Nile

Asrial said:


> It actually doesn't! I'll post my cockatrice decklist, as it's mostly identical, lands are differing.
> 
> *Thromok the OMNOM*
> *Manabase:*
> 1 Fire-Lit Thicket
> 1 Karplusan Forest
> 1 Strip Mine
> 1 Wasteland
> 1 Rootbound Crag
> 1 Evolving Wilds
> 1 Terramorphic Expanse
> 1 Kher Keep
> 1 Kessig Wolf Run
> 1 Terrain Generator
> 1 Stomping Ground
> 1 Taiga
> 13 Forest
> 10 Mountain
> 1 Gaea's Cradle
> 1 Mosswort Bridge
> 
> *Mana accell.:*
> 1 Sol Ring
> 1 Mana Reflection
> 1 Cultivate
> 1 Oracle of Mul Daya
> 1 Wood Elves
> 1 Kodama's Reach
> 1 Growth Spasm
> 1 Skyshroud Claim
> 1 Awakening Zone
> 1 Dryad Arbor
> 1 Yavimaya Elder
> 1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
> 1 Citanul Hierophants
> 1 Garruk Wildspeaker
> 
> *Combo pieces:*
> 1 Grab the Reins
> 1 Electropotence
> 1 Warstorm Surge
> 1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
> 1 Anger
> 1 Brawn
> 1 Survival of the Fittest
> 1 Xenagos, God of Revels
> 1 Fauna Shaman
> 1 Lightning Greaves
> 
> *Digging, drawing and goodstuff:*
> 1 Defense of the Heart
> 1 Fecundity
> 1 Skullclamp
> 1 Solemn Simulacrum
> 1 Tooth and Nail
> 1 Wheel of Fortune
> 1 Fierce Empath
> 1 Heartwood Storyteller
> 1 Skullmulcher
> 1 Harmonize
> 1 Wheel of Fate
> 1 Green Sun's Zenith
> 1 Chord of Calling
> 
> *Protection of combo+removal:*
> 1 Asceticism
> 1 Eternal Witness
> 1 Acidic Slime
> 1 Deadwood Treefolk
> 1 Artifact Mutation
> 1 Chain Reaction
> 1 Vexing Shusher
> 1 Blasphemous Act
> 1 Beast Within
> 1 Chaos Warp
> 1 Bow of Nylea
> 
> *The dinner:*
> 1 Avenger of Zendikar
> 1 Doubling Season
> 1 Mycoloth
> 1 Primal Vigor
> 1 Dragonlair Spider
> 1 Hornet Queen
> 1 Krenko, Mob Boss
> 1 Nacatl War-Pride
> 1 Ulasht, the Hate Seed
> 1 Wolfbriar Elemental
> 1 Wort, the Raidmother
> 1 Sprout Swarm
> 1 Deranged Hermit
> 1 Siege-Gang Commander
> 
> Gameplan is as follows: Thin out the deck ASAP, use shaman or survival to put anger/brawn in the grave, then squee to get any essential creature you need. Plonk down any fatty you see, wheel and draw as if your life depended on it, generate tokens, eat and then zap down your opponents.
> This deck is more combo than aggro, so be prepared to be a sitting duck for a while. If you can though, you can shoot down 3-4 players in one swing, easily!



Ever think of using Kiki-Jiki and some more token guys? I won a Commander tournament with Kiki-Jiki copying the shit out of Hornet Queen.

Momentous Fall?
Mimic Vat?
Ant Queen?
Fresh Meat?
Chancellor of the Forge?
Saproling Symbiosis?
Purphoros?
Tempt With Vengeance?
Champion of Lambholt?
Worldly Tutor?
Garruk, Primal Hunter?
Sarkhan Vol?

Just some ideas looking at my Maelstrom Wanderer/Prossh decks.


----------



## pink freud

Nile said:


> So, I've boughten a Gaea's Cradle for $112 and a Mana Crypt for $140.
> 
> I think I have a problem.
> 
> Edit: Forgot about two 8th Edition foil Birds of Paradise for $61.
> 
> And a Wasteland for $60. o.o



Tell me about it, I'm _this_ close to pulling the trigger on a Crypt, a Nether Void, a Candelabra of Tawnos AND a Chains of Mephistopheles. My Oona deck wants the Candelabra SO much, and Chains is tutorable by Zur.


----------



## Toxic Dover

So I impulse bought an M15 fat pack today and got pretty lucky with it, haha...







I pulled Liliana Vess on my 4th pack or so, and figured that would be the best one out of the lot, but on my last pack, I pulled Nissa! Now to see what kind of decks I can build around either of these...


----------



## Xaios

Need to get me a foil Nissa Worldwaker for Omnath. I played the deck a couple times recently, it still smashes absolute face.


----------



## Nile

pink freud said:


> Tell me about it, I'm _this_ close to pulling the trigger on a Crypt, a Nether Void, a Candelabra of Tawnos AND a Chains of Mephistopheles. My Oona deck wants the Candelabra SO much, and Chains is tutorable by Zur.



Let's also make that a Lion's Eye Diamond for $68. And another Gaea's Cradle for $112 instead this time cause the other one is going back because of untold damage.


God DAMN are these 8th foil Birds amazing looking.


----------



## Nile

Xaios said:


> Need to get me a foil Nissa Worldwaker for Omnath. I played the deck a couple times recently, it still smashes absolute face.



Omnath OP.


Green best mono color.


----------



## pink freud

Nile said:


> Omnath OP.
> 
> 
> Green best mono color.



Somebody had a Reki, the History of Kamigawa deck the other day. It was actually kind of gross, it was filled with small-cost legendaries and once he got Earthcraft it was like watching legacy Elves go off.


----------



## Xaios

Man, watching Pro Tour, I just watched one of the most awesome moves ever. Yuuki Ichikawa vs. Jackson Cunningham. Ichikawa is playing Jund Superfriends, Cunningham is playing G/W Aggro. Ichikawa is clearly losing the game up to this point. He's at 6 life, he controls a 4/4 Scavenging Ooze, a Mutavault and one mystery card in hand. Cunningham has a 5/5 AOTW token, a 2/2 Voice of Resurgence token and has a Selesnya Charm in hand.

Cunningham attacks with the 5/5 wurm token, his plan is to make the Scavenging Ooze block, then exile it with Selesnya Charm when Ichikawa goes to make it bigger. Scavenging Ooze blocks as planned, then grows. Cunningham goes to exile it.

Then, BAM.

Ichikawa casts the mystery card in his hand, which it turns out is Golgari Charm. He gives all creatures -1/-1, making Scavenging Ooze an illegal target for Selesnya Charm. Then, once Selesnya Charm fizzles, he grows it even more, now making it bigger than the wurm token. The wurm dies, and then the Voice of Resurgence token dies too, because it's the only creature left on Cunningham's board. COMPLETELY reversed the game, and Ichikawa goes on to take the game, tying the match 1-1. It was CRAZY to watch.


----------



## WhiteWalls

Xaios said:


> Man, watching Pro Tour, I just watched one of the most awesome moves ever. Yuuki Ichikawa vs. Jackson Cunningham. Ichikawa is playing Jund Superfriends, Cunningham is playing G/W Aggro. Ichikawa is clearly losing the game up to this point. He's at 6 life, he controls a 4/4 Scavenging Ooze, a Mutavault and one mystery card in hand. Cunningham has a 5/5 AOTW token, a 2/2 Voice of Resurgence token and has a Selesnya Charm in hand.
> 
> Cunningham attacks with the 5/5 wurm token, his plan is to make the Scavenging Ooze block, then exile it with Selesnya Charm when Ichikawa goes to make it bigger. Scavenging Ooze blocks as planned, then grows. Cunningham goes to exile it.
> 
> Then, BAM.
> 
> Ichikawa casts the mystery card in his hand, which it turns out is Golgari Charm. He gives all creatures -1/-1, making Scavenging Ooze an illegal target for Selesnya Charm. Then, once Selesnya Charm fizzles, he grows it even more, now making it bigger than the wurm token. The wurm dies, and then the Voice of Resurgence token dies too, because it's the only creature left on Cunningham's board. COMPLETELY reversed the game, and Ichikawa goes on to take the game, tying the match 1-1. It was CRAZY to watch.


Stuff like this is why I highly reccommend anyone who wants to get better at magic to watch Pro Tour top8s, it catapults you into a level of skill completely different from local events and even ptqs.

Not a big fan of the current standard format though


----------



## ittoa666

I agree. It's very fun to watch the deliberation that goes into the very high level of play.


----------



## Xaios

Obtained a foil copy of Darien, King of Kjeldor for my EDH deck. Also got a foil Obelisk of Urd and a Soul of Theros and threw them in. Obelisk is definitely staying, as it's a giant beating and easy for this deck to cast. Soul of Theros though might get cut. Sure, he's great when he's active, but his ability is super mana-intensive for this deck (powerful as it is), so I might cut him. I just also obtained a copy of Armistice, so that might go in instead. What I really want, though, is a copy of Inheritance, I'd think that would be great in this deck, and mono-white can use all the card draw it can get.

I really do like this deck though, and even when it whiffs hard, I still like the idea of it. It's a deck built almost entirely around synergy. There are very few cards that can be called "power cards" in this deck. It's got a boatload of interactions, but it's still also quite fair.


----------



## Xaios

Rebuilt Animar and proceeded to go full douchebag. Locked everyone else out with Animar, Seedborn Muse, Cloudstone Curio, Draining Whelk and Venser, Shaper Savant. Once I started casting and recasting free Ulamogs over and over, shit started to become pretty silly.


----------



## lelandbowman3

anyone have any ideas on how to make effective reanimator decks that are legal in standard? I play legacy and casual just because I don't like being bound to one block at a time. Right now I'm playing golgari scavenge with doubling +1/+1 spells and abilities. Varloz gives everything scavenge, and corpsejack doubles all counters, and I play kessig cagebreakers, rubblebelt raiders, and Necropolis Regent. Stormtide Leviathan is in there for shock factor/board control. Lots of green ramping and enchant land for additional mana of whatever color. It's worked really well a few times, but others, I don't get exactly what I need out.


----------



## pink freud

The only actual reanimator spell in standard that I can think of is Obzedat's Aid. Everything else seems to go to hand, or have to have been put there from play.


----------



## Xaios

lelandbowman3 said:


> anyone have any ideas on how to make effective reanimator decks that are legal in standard? I play legacy and casual just because I don't like being bound to one block at a time. Right now I'm playing golgari scavenge with doubling +1/+1 spells and abilities. Varloz gives everything scavenge, and corpsejack doubles all counters, and I play kessig cagebreakers, rubblebelt raiders, and Necropolis Regent. Stormtide Leviathan is in there for shock factor/board control. Lots of green ramping and enchant land for additional mana of whatever color. It's worked really well a few times, but others, I don't get exactly what I need out.



I'm not sure if the list you're referencing is meant to be Standard or not, but Kessig Cagebreakers is not standard-legal. The only cards I can think of are Obzedat's Aid, Rescue from the Underworld, Immortal Servitude and the new white reanimate spell from M15 that brings back 2-drops. Alas, none of them are really in the same league as Unburial Rites was.

EDIT: "Return to the Ranks" is the card from M15.


----------



## lelandbowman3

bleh. guess I'm just stuck with legacy for now.


----------



## lelandbowman3

And the only thing about unburial rites was it's flashback. It was still a pretty heavy drop. nothing's as good as entomb and exhume were.


----------



## Nile

lelandbowman3 said:


> bleh. guess I'm just stuck with legacy for now.



What's wrong with that?


----------



## pink freud

Nile said:


> What's wrong with that?



Oddly enough, the best tech against Reanimator is in standard right now. Scavenging Ooze, DRS and Rest in Peace.


----------



## Xaios

lelandbowman3 said:


> And the only thing about unburial rites was it's flashback. It was still a pretty heavy drop. nothing's as good as entomb and exhume were.



No, of course, not, but it was still definitely a cut above all the current Reanimator cards in standard. Personally I want to give the modern B/R reanimator deck a try, the one that reanimates Griselbrand and Emrakul with Goryo's Vengeance, feeding Griselbrand draws with Fury of the Horde and Nourishing Shoal discarding Autochthon Wurm.


----------



## pink freud

Xaios said:


> No, of course, not, but it was still definitely a cut above all the current Reanimator cards in standard. Personally I want to give the modern B/R reanimator deck a try, the one that reanimates Griselbrand and Emrakul with Goryo's Vengeance, feeding Griselbrand draws with Fury of the Horde and Nourishing Shoal discarding Autochthon Wurm.



Somebody at Card Kingdom told me about an awesome method for cheating Emrakul in Modern into play:

Run something like:
4x Surgical Extraction
4x Shelldock Isle
4x Emrakul
4x Watery Grave
4x Extirpate
40x Shadowborn Apostle

Discard an Apostle, then Surgical it (or Extirpate next turn). Then drop a Shelldock and hide Emrakul. Next turn "hardcast" it. Obvious but brilliant.


----------



## Xaios

Heh, that's pretty brilliant actually. 

*EDIT:* The problem, after thinking about it, is that a) it'll be inconsistent, and b) it'll still be kinda slow for a shenanigans deck, c) you need to have all the pieces in your hand, and d) if you have to mulligan, it'll make it even slower.

Let's say you're on the play. Turn 1, you can't do anything. Turn 2, you still can't play a land so you have enough cards in hand to discard Shadowborn Apostle. If you've got Extirpate and not Surgical Extraction, then you need to wait until turn 3 to drop a black mana source to cast it, then you have to wait until turn 4 to drop Shelldock Isle and Hideaway. THEN you have to wait until turn 5 to drop Emrakul. So the earliest you could ever possibly get this combo off is turn 4, and it has no way of protecting itself.

It was a nice dream though.


----------



## lelandbowman3

Emrakul is good as long as there's no permanents that prevent exile or sacrificing. Or creatures with removal abilities.
Personally, my favorite Eldrazi was It That Betrays. For the same reason I like reanimator cards.


----------



## lelandbowman3

Nile said:


> What's wrong with that?



Nothing wrong with it. But sometimes other causal players refuse to play because "huehueheuheuheu deck's not legal because its not current asfafaflkajsdf;ah"

Believe me, Innistrad and Dark Ascension have some stuff that make Dimir and Golgari retard-strength good.


----------



## pink freud

Xaios said:


> Heh, that's pretty brilliant actually.
> 
> *EDIT:* The problem, after thinking about it, is that a) it'll be inconsistent, and b) it'll still be kinda slow for a shenanigans deck, c) you need to have all the pieces in your hand, and d) if you have to mulligan, it'll make it even slower.
> 
> Let's say you're on the play. Turn 1, you can't do anything. Turn 2, you still can't play a land so you have enough cards in hand to discard Shadowborn Apostle. If you've got Extirpate and not Surgical Extraction, then you need to wait until turn 3 to drop a black mana source to cast it, then you have to wait until turn 4 to drop Shelldock Isle and Hideaway. THEN you have to wait until turn 5 to drop Emrakul. So the earliest you could ever possibly get this combo off is turn 4, and it has no way of protecting itself.
> 
> It was a nice dream though.



It's about as fragile as dredge as far as getting started. If you are put on the play, it's bad. If you are put on the play and your opponent does land+Thoughtseize you just double time walked yourself.

I think the earliest is turn 3 though, requiring you be on the draw.
Discard, on their turn Surgical, turn 2 Shelldock, turn three Watery Grave then activate. You have to have 3 specific cards in your opening hand, or draw into them, but that's about the average pace for a turbo Show and Tell in legacy.


----------



## Xaios

pink freud said:


> It's about as fragile as dredge as far as getting started. If you are put on the play, it's bad. If you are put on the play and your opponent does land+Thoughtseize you just double time walked yourself.
> 
> I think the earliest is turn 3 though, requiring you be on the draw.
> Discard, on their turn Surgical, turn 2 Shelldock, turn three Watery Grave then activate. You have to have 3 specific cards in your opening hand, or draw into them, but that's about the average pace for a turbo Show and Tell in legacy.



That's true, but you have to have an absolute God-hand in order to pull that off, and there's so little redundancy (only Surgical Extraction and Extirpate) in the deck it's really difficult to do. It's entirely possible to pull a hand with An Extirpate, a Shelldock Isle, 4 Shadowborn Apostles and an Emrakul, which is quite useless. Dredge & Show & Tell have enough redundancy to still be workable (although yes, they do mulligan badly). With this, unfortunately you'll whiff FAR more often than not.


----------



## Nile

lelandbowman3 said:


> Nothing wrong with it. But sometimes other causal players refuse to play because "huehueheuheuheu deck's not legal because its not current asfafaflkajsdf;ah"



God damn do I hate when they say that shit.

Same with friends 25 year old brother or whatnot. He'll play then be like "Hurr nurr can't use your decks, they aren't Standard legal." WELL NO SHIT, YOU WANT TO PLAY DON'T YOU? (As he has cards from M13 and I'm playing with Standard decks from 1995* because that's the lowest power level I have.)

*Gold Bordered tournament decks.


----------



## pink freud

Nile said:


> God damn do I hate when they say that shit.
> 
> Same with friends 25 year old brother or whatnot. He'll play then be like "Hurr nurr can't use your decks, they aren't Standard legal." WELL NO SHIT, YOU WANT TO PLAY DON'T YOU? (As he has cards from M13 and I'm playing with Standard decks from 1995* because that's the lowest power level I have.)
> 
> *Gold Bordered tournament decks.



This is why the only constructed format I play is multiplayer Commander. There is only one format, one list of stuff you can't play. Limited changes every time you play it, and everybody is subject to the packs.


----------



## Xaios

There's always Modern too. 

I have two modern decks: Elves, and FOUR COLOR ALLIES, BABY! 

Funny enough, the best card in my Allies deck might be Mass Appeal, because every creature in it (including two Noble Hierarchs who aren't allies) just happen to be Humans, so it's not unusual for me to draw 3-5 cards off it. A friend of mine had originally suggested I throw in Distant Melody for draw power, until I realized that, because all my creatures are human, Mass Appeal was just better.

It's not a tier 1 deck, but it's more potent then you might think. It runs 2-3 Mirror Entity, which is really potent when I've got lots of allies that have low base P/T but lots of counters.

The base of the deck is White and Green. I splash blue for Mass Appeal and Jwari Shapeshifter, and red for Akoum Battlesinger. Gives me looots of sideboarding options as well.


----------



## pink freud

Xaios said:


> There's always Modern too.
> 
> I have two modern decks: Elves, and FOUR COLOR ALLIES, BABY!
> 
> Funny enough, the best card in my Allies deck might be Mass Appeal, because every creature in it (including two Noble Hierarchs who aren't allies) just happen to be Humans, so it's not unusual for me to draw 3-5 cards off it. A friend of mine had originally suggested I throw in Distant Melody for draw power, until I realized that, because all my creatures are human, Mass Appeal was just better.
> 
> It's not a tier 1 deck, but it's more potent then you might think. It runs 2-3 Mirror Entity, which is really potent when I've got lots of allies that have low base P/T but lots of counters.
> 
> The base of the deck is White and Green. I splash blue for Mass Appeal and Jwari Shapeshifter, and red for Akoum Battlesinger. Gives me looots of sideboarding options as well.



I guess outside of legacy 60 card decks just aren't that interesting to me. If the original Highlander was more popular I'd play that though. 100 card singleton, no commander, no color restriction, no card restriction.


----------



## Xaios

At one point there was actually a decent number of people here who played original Highlander. In fact, they actually had a kind of snooty attitude towards EDH. Then all of a sudden they were all PLAYING EDH. One of them told me that it was basically that they had a superiority complex about their format, but when they actually gave EDH a chance, they actually ended up liking it a lot more.


----------



## pink freud

Welp, just ordered a Crypt. Couldn't bring myself to get the Candelabra, so I picked up a Cradle for my Rhys deck as a consolation. Now my Damia deck will have the potential for a turn one win, yay! (Island -> Crypt -> Show and Tell -> Omniscience -> EtI)


----------



## Nile

So I just figured out if you store shit in a fat pack, put one of those hard plastic card sleeves on one end and close the box starting from that end and the lid will go on really smooth all the way down and you won't get that, "am I bending shit or not?", feeling. Figured this out right after i bent a corner off one of my Kitchen Finks in my Pod deck.


----------



## lelandbowman3

I'm running golgari scavenge kinda thing where I mulch myself and give bonuses with corpsejack. I have kessig cagebreakers, necropolis regent, and rubblebelt raiders, and vampire nighthawk. Lots of ramping, unburial rights, and a few murder and tragic slip. Where can I improve? (For a reasonable price)


----------



## lelandbowman3

I also have varloz to give all creatures scavenge


----------



## Nile

Shared Animosity is the nuts in Prossh.

If i had a green source in opener or drew one I would have dropped Prossh and attacked turn two. Then if I had the green and one of the three opening lands was a shared animosity I would have killed turn two. Good hand either way.


----------



## Asrial

Nile said:


> Ever think of using Kiki-Jiki and some more token guys? I won a Commander tournament with Kiki-Jiki copying the shit out of Hornet Queen.
> 
> Momentous Fall?
> Mimic Vat?
> Ant Queen?
> Fresh Meat?
> Chancellor of the Forge?
> Saproling Symbiosis?
> Purphoros?
> Tempt With Vengeance?
> Champion of Lambholt?
> Worldly Tutor?
> Garruk, Primal Hunter?
> Sarkhan Vol?
> 
> Just some ideas looking at my Maelstrom Wanderer/Prossh decks.


Sorry for not responding, been postponing my answer and university matters came up.
Anywho, you're bringing up some rather solid cards. Sarkhan vol was in my original list, but swapped it for Grab the Reins, as it was easier to cast and more versatile. Purphoros doesn't fit the bill, as this isn't a token deck per se, but a combo deck. Momentous fall < Life's Legacy.



lelandbowman3 said:


> I'm running golgari scavenge kinda thing where I mulch myself and give bonuses with corpsejack. I have kessig cagebreakers, necropolis regent, and rubblebelt raiders, and vampire nighthawk. Lots of ramping, unburial rights, and a few murder and tragic slip. Where can I improve? (For a reasonable price)


What format? Sounds like you're just playing casually, in which case I'd advice you to adhere to an actual format. Either EDH if you plan to stay casual, or standard if you want to play in tournaments.


----------



## Nile

Asrial said:


> Sorry for not responding, been postponing my answer and university matters came up.
> Anywho, you're bringing up some rather solid cards. Sarkhan vol was in my original list, but swapped it for Grab the Reins, as it was easier to cast and more versatile. Purphoros doesn't fit the bill, as this isn't a token deck per se, but a combo deck. Momentous fall < Life's Legacy.
> 
> 
> What format? Sounds like you're just playing casually, in which case I'd advice you to adhere to an actual format. Either EDH if you plan to stay casual, or standard if you want to play in tournaments.



Momentous Fall gains you life as a bonus and is instant where you can sac your Prossh to it if things go awry like a Condemn or removal spell being thrown at it in response when you sac every token you have.

Also, I've won games off of Purphoros. Use it. I usually always tutor for it anyways. Purphoros into a Prossh is 12 uncounterable damage to every opponent just from playing Prossh once and with the multiple ways to feed him in the deck it's incredibly good. Mine isn't all out token based and he still slays it. I've even had complaints about Purphoros alone.

Edit: I forgot to make it clearer. USE CHAMPION OF LAMBHOLT.


----------



## Asrial

^Yeah but... I'm not using Prossh. 
Champion of Lambholt is a mainstay and a wincon in my Ghave deck. I don't need to make Thromok unblockable, since he's going to swing with at least a 225/225. With trample and haste.

And when you're dealing with those numbers, you really don't want to draw equal to its power.  I'm moreso interested in sac'ing something smaller, like a skullmuncher, so it's acting like a harmonize 2.0.


----------



## Xaios

Why no Parallel Lives in Thromok? Doesn't double counters, but doubles the token food.

I'm thinking I might build a Pillowfort deck, never tried it before.


----------



## Asrial

^Already got Doubling Season and Primal Vigor in the deck. Doubling Season is obvious, and I'd rather run Primal Vigor over Parallel Lives, since Primal tends to help my enemies and thus gets destroyed less often.

It's the same reason I run a draw engine like Heartwood Storyteller; it helps me immensely, but flies under the radar since it's "fair".


----------



## Nile

Asrial said:


> ^Yeah but... I'm not using Prossh.
> Champion of Lambholt is a mainstay and a wincon in my Ghave deck. I don't need to make Thromok unblockable, since he's going to swing with at least a 225/225. With trample and haste.
> 
> And when you're dealing with those numbers, you really don't want to draw equal to its power.  I'm moreso interested in sac'ing something smaller, like a skullmuncher, so it's acting like a harmonize 2.0.



Yeah, I derped sorry.


----------



## Xaios

Asrial said:


> It's the same reason I run a draw engine like Heartwood Storyteller; it helps me immensely, but flies under the radar since it's "fair".



I don't think Heartwood Storyteller is the card you're thinking of...

There is definitely some truth to the notion that Primal Vigor is a more safe political card. As long as you can take advantage of it more than your opponents, then it should be good. On the other hand though, let's say there are 3 decks at a table that use counters and tokens. The one player not using them may blow it up when he might not have blown up a card that only affects one player.

All in the meta, I guess.


----------



## pink freud

Xaios said:


> I don't think Heartwood Storyteller is the card you're thinking of...
> 
> There is definitely some truth to the notion that Primal Vigor is a more safe political card. As long as you can take advantage of it more than your opponents, then it should be good. On the other hand though, let's say there are 3 decks at a table that use counters and tokens. The one player not using them may blow it up when he might not have blown up a card that only affects one player.
> 
> All in the meta, I guess.



In my meta even the players that can make use of it will blow it up after they have made use of it. 

You want pillowfort, try Zur Stax, it's delightfully evil. Rest in Peace + Web of Inertia, Bitterblossom + Contamination, Urborg + Pendrell Mists + Mana Web + Winter Orb, Necropotence + Solitary Confinement... I love playing my Zur deck, because if other people could play Magic they might actually _do_ something, and we can't have that!


----------



## Asrial

Xaios said:


> I don't think Heartwood Storyteller is the card you're thinking of...


Oh, I didn't make a mistake here. 
It's not a drawing "engine" in the traditional sense, but I face a lot of non-creature spells in my playgroup, so I gain a lot of card advantage.



> There is definitely some truth to the notion that Primal Vigor is a more safe political card. As long as you can take advantage of it more than your opponents, then it should be good. On the other hand though, let's say there are 3 decks at a table that use counters and tokens. The one player not using them may blow it up when he might not have blown up a card that only affects one player.
> 
> All in the meta, I guess.


Again, my opponents doesn't utilize token strategies all that much, so my Primal Vigor is a great fit. There's obviously the occasional Increasing Devotion, but those are not common.

Also, pillowfort? Why not turbofog with Angus McKenzie?


----------



## Xaios

Asrial said:


> Oh, I didn't make a mistake here.
> It's not a drawing "engine" in the traditional sense, but I face a lot of non-creature spells in my playgroup, so I gain a lot of card advantage.



Fair enough. Anything like that tends to die pretty quickly in my meta.



Asrial said:


> Also, pillowfort? Why not turbofog with Angus McKenzie?


----------



## Nile

You own Judge Cradle. Shh now.


----------



## Xaios

Nile said:


> You own Judge Cradle. Shh now.





While true, I paid a whole lot less for mine than it's worth now. 

Did I mention that I only paid $75 for my judge foil Survival of the Fittest?


----------



## Nile

Welp, guess what I just bought. An Angus Mackenzie in English for $45. eBay is my friend.


----------



## Xaios

Nile said:


> Welp, guess what I just bought. An Angus Mackenzie in English for $45. eBay is my friend.



Nice.

As fun as it might be, I don't have such an overwhelming urge to play Pillowfort that I plan to spend any real money on it. It's just an archetype that I want to give a go. I was thinking of using Iperia, Supreme Judge.

A buddy of mine has an Angus Mackenzie planeswalker deck that can be a mighty pain in the ass if it gets going.


----------



## Nile

So, Goblin Guide. Dafuqs with that $35 spike?


----------



## pink freud

Xaios said:


> Nice.
> 
> As fun as it might be, I don't have such an overwhelming urge to play Pillowfort that I plan to spend any real money on it. It's just an archetype that I want to give a go. I was thinking of using Iperia, Supreme Judge.
> 
> A buddy of mine has an Angus Mackenzie planeswalker deck that can be a mighty pain in the ass if it gets going.



Leyline of Punishment and similar effects can shut that nonsense down. Jund is the natural enemy of the pillowforter, what with the wraths against every type of permanent.


----------



## Xaios

Nile said:


> So, Goblin Guide. Dafuqs with that $35 spike?



Really? Sweet. Glad I have a full playset. 

(Never ever used them once though. )



pink freud said:


> Leyline of Punishment and similar effects can shut that nonsense down. Jund is the natural enemy of the pillowforter, what with the wraths against every type of permanent.



Good point. I'll have to ponder what to do about Jund.


----------



## pink freud

Last night's draft picks:

Chord of Calling
Phytotitan
Hornet's Nest
Hornet Queen
Life's Legacy
Genesis Hydra

No, I don't understand why and/or how it happened either...


----------



## Xaios

pink freud said:


> Last night's draft picks:
> 
> Chord of Calling
> Phytotitan
> Hornet's Nest
> Hornet Queen
> Life's Legacy
> Genesis Hydra
> 
> No, I don't understand why and/or how it happened either...



Jesus Murphy, how did you manage that???

I did decent on Friday too. Got Master of Predicaments, Stormtide Leviathan, Aetherspouts and Cruel Sadist. Not to mention 4 Welkin Terns. Even cast Stormtide Leviathan off of Master of Predicaments' effect.


----------



## pink freud

Xaios said:


> Jesus Murphy, how did you manage that???
> 
> I did decent on Friday too. Got Master of Predicaments, Stormtide Leviathan, Aetherspouts and Cruel Sadist. Not to mention 4 Welkin Terns. Even cast Stormtide Leviathan off of Master of Predicaments' effect.




Always guess low. At worst they get a free tiny dude.

My dream is Stormtide Leviathan off of a Generator Servant. Also Doom Engine off of Generator Servant, and then Shrapnel Blast it.


----------



## Xaios

pink freud said:


> Always guess low. At worst they get a free tiny dude.
> 
> My dream is Stormtide Leviathan off of a Generator Servant. Also Doom Engine off of Generator Servant, and then Shrapnel Blast it.



Doom Engine I think is viable. Stormtide Leviathan is bit ambitious I think, although I guess that's why it's "the dream." 

What I really wanna do is pair Scuttling Doom Engine with Rescue from the Underworld. I think it'd be funny as heck with a Jund ramp shell, using the aforementioned Generator Servant. That way you could combine it with Shrapnel Blast, Rescue from the Underworld for recursion shenanigans and Life's Legacy for card draw.


----------



## pink freud

God I love my Zur deck...

One the play last night:
T1: Island -> Mana Crypt -> Trinisphere
T2: Plains -> Winter Orb
T3: Swamp -> Zur


----------



## Nile

pink freud said:


> God I love my Zur deck...
> 
> One the play last night:
> T1: Island -> Mana Crypt -> Trinisphere
> T2: Plains -> Winter Orb
> T3: Swamp -> Zur



gtfo


----------



## Xaios

I had a pretty gross game last night too, with Omnath. I had a decent amount of stuff on the board, with Omnath, Asceticism, Sol Ring, Mana Reflection and Caged Sun (ALL THE MANA!). Alas, I got Cruel Ultimatum'd, which nuked my hand and made me sacrifice Omnath. However, I came screaming back with a vengeance. My next top deck was Mosswort Bridge, which I played, and recast Omnath. The hideaway card I got was Greater Good. I swung into the guy on my right on the next turn (how we play in our group is attack right, defend left). Being as he was a fairly new player, he didn't recognize that I could one-shot him with Omnath. I made Omnath a 25/25 and smoked him. I then cast Greater Good off Mosswort Bridge, and proceeded to go to town:

- Sacrificed Omnath to Greater Good. Drew 24 cards, discarded 3.
- Cast Crop Rotation, sacrificed Mosswort Bridge, tutored Gaea's Cradle into play _untapped_.
- Used all remaining mana in pool to cast Wolfbriar Elemental w/ multikickers. Got 14 2/2 wolves in addition to the creature itself.
- Tapped Gaea's Cradle for a boatload of mana (Mana Reflection _doubles_ the mana created by Gaea's cradle).
- Cast Ring of Three Wishes, tutored and cast Eldrazi Monument.
- Played a couple other creatures, then cast Garruk Wildspeaker. Untapped Gaea's Cradle w/ Garruk, then cast a boatload more stuff.
- Among other things cast was Terastodon, Acidic Slime and Ulamog destroying all the blue lands that the blue player controlled. This was definitely the right choice as he was holding 3 counterspells, but was tapped out. He also had a Lavinia of the Tenth in hand, which could have locked down a lot of my stuff for a turn. Not to mention he was playing a Brago blink deck.
- Also blew up the Blood Artist controlled by the Prossh player.
- Proceeded to walk through the rest of the table. 

It felt dirty, but it also felt good.


----------



## Nile

So, I can't register my DCI number using my email because it says it is already in use. Only other place I've used it for is MTGO.

What the ever loving fvck?


----------



## pink freud

Nile said:


> So, I can't register my DCI number using my email because it says it is already in use. Only other place I've used it for is MTGO.
> 
> What the ever loving fvck?



Don't you have a DCI from the MTGO account? I don't play online, but that's my thought.


----------



## Xaios

pink freud said:


> Don't you have a DCI from the MTGO account? I don't play online, but that's my thought.



My thoughts exactly.


----------



## Nile

How do I find it if I do?


----------



## pink freud

Have you tried here: DCI FAQ


----------



## Nile

Try to retrieve my DCI number and password and neither work. My email address doesn't have a DCI number attached to it yet and my DCI number hasn't been registered yet. Not to mention I can't make a help account and email them because it says my email is already used.

How even..


----------



## Xaios

I'd suggest their phone support. Looks like the number is 1-800-324-6496.


----------



## Nile

I'M ROCK SOLID

Khans of Tarkir Spoiler | MythicSpoiler.com


----------



## Asrial

I am so stonkin' READY for this set! Theros was a flavor win but really disappointed me power-wise. RtR was better, but looking at original ravnica, it was a dud. This set looks to me as a mixture of Alara (YES) and Zendikar (HOLY YES) with a tribe in my favored colors, WBG!

ALL HAIL ABZAN, ALL HAIL TARKIR!


----------



## Xaios

Indeed, so far the spoilers for this set are a total win. New Sorin who looks pretty cool, and ALLIED FETCHLANDS!


----------



## Nile

So, there's an M15 draft at the Renaissance Festival. Tips about drafting M15 from your own experiences please. I've yet to draft it.


----------



## WhiteWalls

Nile said:


> So, there's an M15 draft at the Renaissance Festival. Tips about drafting M15 from your own experiences please. I've yet to draft it.


It's alright. Probably the first core set I didn't get tired of drafting after about 3 games, it has some depth and it's not only about drafting good cards, but there are some good combos that are worth exploring.

The best deck in a vacuum is probably the white tokens/sanctfied charge deck. Super fast, pretty resilient (two token generators at common and two "pump all your creatures" cards at common too). Great support cards for Ajani's Pridemate all around.


----------



## pink freud

Nile said:


> So, there's an M15 draft at the Renaissance Festival. Tips about drafting M15 from your own experiences please. I've yet to draft it.



Green/White Convoke is probably the strongest deck, but in a vacuum Red is the strongest color (not counting insane Green bombs you aren't likely to get). Hard removal is expensive (five mana for a "this thing just dies"), so most of your good removal is soft (damage) or conditional (exile if toughness > 4).

Like all drafts though, read the signals to get the best deck, regardless of color. Unless you get a Soul of Theros. Then you take it.


----------



## Xaios

Nile said:


> So, there's an M15 draft at the Renaissance Festival. Tips about drafting M15 from your own experiences please. I've yet to draft it.



White is probably the best color overall. It's not as singularly strong as red in a vacuum, but it pairs with every other color quite well.

Blue is viewed as the weakest color, and there is a valid argument there, because blue in M15 is pulling itself in two directions. However, that often also means that blue gets ignored a lot of the time, which could potentially open the door to an excellent card pool.

Aside from the aforementioned W/G Convoke, some other archetypes are W/R Aggro, U/R Artifacts, W/U Tempo and G/B Graveyard-based Midrange. Don't staple yourself to an archetype though if you happen to get cards that are strong in another way. I went 3-1 in my most recent M15 draft playing U/B Aggro/Tempo. 4 Welkin Terns FTW.

Definitely liking the cards they've spoiled so far, although I wish they would stop front-loading all the rares and mythics at the beginning of each spoiler season. They have a habit of blowing their load on the cool cards and not having anything left but jank at the end.


----------



## ittoa666

I've had a lot of luck drafting UW fliers. It suits the format and you get some crazy non bombs that get huge. Plus, tokens.


----------



## Nile

I don't think I ever mentioned, I bought a foil Dack Fayden for $235. Yeah, most expensive purchase by far now.


----------



## Xaios

Dang, crazy how much more valuable a foil Dack is than a non-foil.

A guy I play EDH with has a pack-foil of every planeswalker ever printed. The best I've got is a foil Karn.

When New Phyrexia came out, a buddy of mine bought a box. He pulled *two foil Karns* in that box! I witnessed the opening of said box myself, otherwise I would not have believed it.


----------



## pink freud

I've stopped liking foils. Too susceptible to bending and such. I already double-sleeve my expensive cards; I'd rather not have to double-sleeve cheap foils as well to keep them flat.

In other news: FETCH LANDS ARE COMING BACK. GET HYPE.


----------



## Xaios

pink freud said:


> I've stopped liking foils. Too susceptible to bending and such. I already double-sleeve my expensive cards; I'd rather not have to double-sleeve cheap foils as well to keep them flat.
> 
> In other news: FETCH LANDS ARE COMING BACK. GET HYPE.



Hmm, I've never had to do more than a single sleeve to keep a foil relatively flat. Must be the climate there.

They spoiled another cycle of common-rarity dual lands for limited. They're functionally identital to the "Refuge" cycle from Zendikar (comes in tapped, gain 1 life when they come in), but a) they're putting them out for all 10 2-color combos as opposed to just allied combos like Zendikar, and b) they're common instead of uncommon (as they were in Zendikar). They also have generic names which will aid in their reusability, unlike the locale-specific names from Zendikar.

They spoiled the blue mythic, and it is DUUUULL. A beast in limited, to be sure, but man, it is literally just a big generic beater. Basically just a super-Vizzerdrix. Yeah, it's got Flash and can't be countered, but it doesn't DO anything interesting.


----------



## Nile

Some real underwhelming rares, I was expecting more value with this set to make me really want to buy it but all I want are the fetches, foil Surrak and a foil/playset of the clone guy.

Also, Nevinyrral's Disk. It's Larry Niven's Disk.


----------



## pink freud

I'm hyped about Narset. "Swing, in response to trigger Mystical Tutor for Time Stretch?"

Prowess will need cantrips to be good, Outlast seems unplayable in limited (but in constructed I think Phalanx Leader might have just found a home), Raid seems awesome, Ferocious is Naya pt. 2 and Delve is very swingy.

I'm thinking I'll go RWB for one prerelease and BUG for another.


----------



## Xaios

pink freud said:


> I'm hyped about Narset. "Swing, in response to trigger Mystical Tutor for Time Stretch?"



Hah, awesome. 



pink freud said:


> Prowess will need cantrips to be good, Outlast seems unplayable in limited (but in constructed I think Phalanx Leader might have just found a home), Raid seems awesome, Ferocious is Naya pt. 2 and Delve is very swingy.
> 
> I'm thinking I'll go RWB for one prerelease and BUG for another.



I thought Outlast didn't look too good in limited, but they finally spoiled some Outlast stuff that doesn't need to tap in order to activate.

One thing that does make me leary for limited is that there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of removal. Most of it is either rare or tri-colored and thus impossible to splash for. Bad removal in limited tends to lead to the worst limited environments, like Avacyn Restored. At least there's that mono-black destroy target creature instant with Delve, but I hope that there's more.


----------



## Asrial

Xaios said:


> I thought Outlast didn't look too good in limited, but they finally spoiled some Outlast stuff that doesn't need to tap in order to activate.



Outlast literally reads ({Cost}, [T]; put a +1/+1 counter on the dude), so...
Either case, I can't understand why you'd say it's unplayable in limited. It's a whole faction of slivers with access to a strong removal-color and 2/3 access to delve whilst having no reanimate spells. You also only need to activate the outlast once to get the benefit from the enablers. If you get an Ivorytusk fortress, you're pretty much set. High sentinels is a mana sink that enables, and the Herald makes dudes to ensure you're not boned while outlasting.
The entire flavor of the mechanic literally is "wait for the khan to arrive" also, which is quite funny.


----------



## Xaios

Asrial said:


> Outlast literally reads ({Cost}, [T]; put a +1/+1 counter on the dude), so...



Ah damn, you're right. I completely missed that. Oh well.



Asrial said:


> Either case, I can't understand why you'd say it's unplayable in limited. It's a whole faction of slivers with access to a strong removal-color and 2/3 access to delve whilst having no reanimate spells. You also only need to activate the outlast once to get the benefit from the enablers. If you get an Ivorytusk fortress, you're pretty much set. High sentinels is a mana sink that enables, and the Herald makes dudes to ensure you're not boned while outlasting.
> The entire flavor of the mechanic literally is "wait for the khan to arrive" also, which is quite funny.



In retrospect, you're probably right. The closest analogue I can think of is leveling creatures from Rise of the Eldrazi, which was certainly a playable archetype in RotE limited. These have the benefit of getting larger faster than levelers from RotE, but the downside is that you cannot block with a creature that you've just activated Outlast on, and creatures don't gain abilities like levelers did, they just get bigger. For example, Student of Warfare didn't just get bigger, it gained First Strike, and then Double Strike.

I guess we'll see how it pans out.


----------



## pink freud

So they just banned Rofellos from Commander.

In other news, they unbanned Metalworker in Commander.

WAT.


----------



## Xaios

pink freud said:


> So they just banned Rofellos from Commander.



I saw. Omnath doesn't have a face, but if he did, it would be a sad face. 

The worst part is that they're not even banning him on his own merits. Yeah, he was busted as a General, but he was fine as part of the 99. Powerful but not degenerate. The RC has just decided to eliminate the whole "Banned as a Commander" list. Kokusho got fully unbanned and is now legal as a general (I guess I can be happy that it will make the value of my foil Kokusho rise, even if my foil Rofellos tanks). Meanwhile, Rofellos, Braids and Erayo are now 100% fully banned.


----------



## pink freud

Worst part of it is now my Rhys deck needs a new Elf. For now it'll be Norwood Priestess.

At least my Sydri deck gets a new toy.


----------



## Nile

Why the fvck the ban for Rofellos when Metalworker is pretty on par or even more explosive.


----------



## Xaios

Nile said:


> Why the fvck the ban for Rofellos when Metalworker is pretty on par or even more explosive.



They've "unified the banlist" and gotten rid of the separate list of cards that are only banned as commanders. The ban isn't just for power level alone, it's the fact of it being a super-powerful legendary.

I think the new unified list is dumb too.


----------



## pink freud

Nile said:


> Why the fvck the ban for Rofellos when Metalworker is pretty on par or even more explosive.



They claim it's because having two separate ban lists (banned and banned as commander) wouldn't be optimal in an upcoming MGTO version, and as Rofellos as a commander is pretty busted he gets outright banned. Same with black Braids.


----------



## Nile

Yeah I knew about that part already but didn't really think it through.

God dammit though. It's not so hard to have both lists.


----------



## Xaios

I built a shitty U/B Heroic deck last night in the grand tradition of "play something stupid in the last standard before rotation." Surprisingly, I went 2-2.


----------



## pink freud

Xaios said:


> I built a shitty U/B Heroic deck last night in the grand tradition of "play something stupid in the last standard before rotation." Surprisingly, I went 2-2.



That's eerie. I just got back from a U/B mono-counters and bounce and hope I live until I hit 8 mana and draw Stormtide Leviathan  wherein I also went 2-2 (AKA I played Stormtide Leviathan 4 times).

After the draft played some EDH, had the most perfect hand anybody could ever ask for:
T1: Watery Grave -> Mox Diamond (pitching Swamp) -> Mana Crypt -> Jace the Mind Scupltor
T2: Nether Void -> Everybody scoops.

F YEAH FUN POLICE!


----------



## Xaios

My new sig on the MTGS forum.


----------



## Nile

Xaios said:


> My new sig on the MTGS forum.



Oh my fvcking god.


----------



## Xaios

Went 3-1-1 today in a pre-release on the back of a less-than-stellar Temur (RUG) deck. Two more pre-release events tomorrow, we'll see what happens.

I admit, my LGS' prize support isn't the best. In pre-release events, people are awarded one pack per win, same as the winnings playing swiss draft on MTGO. For one though, my winnings packs weren't garbage. I got a Rattleclaw Mystic (who is henceforth dubbed "Noisy Dork") and a foil Crackling Doom in one pack.


----------



## pink freud

I'm doing my two tomorrow. Definitely going Mardu for one, but am undecided on the other.


----------



## Asrial

I went Abzan, and had some absolutely absurd pulls.
Promo was the Ascendancy, and got the Rhino, the Ivorytusk, a Herald and a Trail of Mystery. Only thing I pulled I didn't use was a Flooded Strand.

I went 4-2. First opponent I lost to was a rather nosey, spikey type. He wasn't much up for chat, and when I asked for a rewind because I said "turn... wait, still got something" (he haven't even seen the card he was about to draw), he called judge. It was due to a Trail trigger, so I fetched a land, then played it, and then he got mad when I tried to play something off of that land. I should've counter-judged that one. He also got "that's so much against the rules" when I suggested to turn exiled card face-down instead of sideways.

Oh well, last opponent and I decided to split prize and just have a chill match, since 3 wins gives 2 boosters, while 4 gives 6. (5 gives 12, 6 gives 24)
I didn't pull squat from that, but was fun nonetheless.


----------



## pink freud

I didn't gel with KtK sealed at ALL. Oh well, got a Bloodstained Mire for my troubles I guess.


----------



## Xaios

My first sealed on Sunday was really frustrating. I went 3-2, not because I had a bad deck (in fact it was better than the deck I had on Saturday), but I got mana-flooded to an insane degree. My last game of the night, in a deck with 17 land a 23 non-land cards, I had pulled 11 land over the course of the game while only pulling 5 non-land cards. I wanted to pull my hair out.

2 Headed Giant went fine, we went 2-1. We lost to a team that inevitably got better cards than us. There comes a point where no amount of tight plays can save you from an absurd card pool.


----------



## pink freud

I've been testing out drafts on Online Free Bestiaire Magic Draft: Magic Draft
If you can pick up a 1st-3rd pick Chief of the Edge or Chief of the Scale, 5-color Warriors actually seems like a very good deck. Pick up a couple Rush of Battle and A Roar of Challenge if you can and you will have the best alpha strike ever.

Also, Monastery Swiftspear in eternal formats is insane:
T1: Mountain -> MS -> Swing for 1 damage.
T2: Mountains -> Swing -> Lightning Bolt -> Lightning Bolt -> Opponent is at 10 life


----------



## Xaios

Yeah, Monastery Swiftspear is being touted as Goblin Guide #2.

Also, best flavor ever:


----------



## Xaios

Managed to get hold of cards a little early, built a fun Temur Monsters deck:

3x Elvish Mystic
3x Sylvan Caryatid
3x Rattleclaw Mystic
3x Courser of Kruphix
3x Savage Knuckleblade
3x Temur Ascendancy
3x Polukranos, World-Eater
2x Ember Swallower
2x Xenagos, the Reveler
2x Surrak Dragonclaw
3x Stormbreath Dragon
1x Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
1x Xenagos, God of Revels
2x Prophet of Kruphix
2x Sagu Mauler

4x Temple of Mystery
4x Temple of Abandon
3x Shivan Reef
2x Yavimaya Coast
2x Wooded Foothills
2x Mana Confluence
4x Forest
2x Mountain
1x Island

It beats face.


----------



## Toxic Dover

So I went to a booster draft on Friday and got extremely lucky. My deck played fairly well, although I'm typically pretty bad at drafts... But I came out with a Windswept Heath, Bloodstained Mire, and a FOIL Polluted Delta. Now I'm trying to decide whether to keep or sell the foil Delta... Opinions?


----------



## Xaios

If you don't play EDH or anything like that, I'd hit the Sell button on the Polluted Delta for one reason: It looks like it will be the least-played of all the reprinted Onslaught Fetchlands in the new standard format. Selling it now will probably maximize its value.


----------



## Asrial

It's only going to decrease in value as Khans standard progresses, so if you aren't planning on using it or keeping it for a looooong time, sell it.

But I'm currently trying to assemble a cube. Anyone want to take a practice-draft and review it?


----------



## pink freud

Ah Delta, so underplayed in Standard and Modern, yet so essential in Legacy and Vintage...


----------



## Xaios

Asrial said:


> It's only going to decrease in value as Khans standard progresses, so if you aren't planning on using it or keeping it for a looooong time, sell it.
> 
> But I'm currently trying to assemble a cube. Anyone want to take a practice-draft and review it?



Tried it out, managed to assemble a nice sort of Sultai graveyard-synergy deck.

I was rummaging through a closet last night and found some cards that went missing a couple years ago...:
- Grave Titan
- Phyrexian Dreadnought

...but I also found copies of cards I didn't even know I owned!:
- Snapcaster Mage
- Wurmcoil Engine
- Loxodon Hierarch
- Genesis Wave
- Rest In Peace
- Pack Rat
- FOIL Golgari Charm (especially nice find after the last Pro Tour )

Found over $100 in value, all told, just out of the blue. It was a good night!


----------



## Nile

How the hell do those go missing in a closet?

How many cards do you own?


----------



## Xaios

Nile said:


> How many cards do you own?



Difficult to say. I imagine the answer makes use of dimensional physics, imaginary numbers and whole new forms of calculus.


----------



## Nile

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRxCeO2KIS8&list=UUc3eyWQlemti0n0A1zRFUjg&index=2

Here you go.


----------



## Xaios

Went 4-0 in draft on Friday. 

Won with a 2 color deck, of all things, Black/White and nothing else. I was passed an End Hostilities, and it ended up being the only rare in the deck. It won me the game literally every time I cast it. I even had to beat a similar deck, also B/W, with some serious rare power in the form of a Master of Pearls, Herald of Anafenza, High Sentinels of Arashin and Utter End. I was pretty proud of that. Good removal is worth its weight in gold in this format. Throttle, Smite the Monstrous and Kill Shot all put in some serious work.


----------



## pink freud

I've been doing pretty bad in draft, but I've gotten one fetch for every Limited event I've done so I guess I'm winning...


----------



## Xaios

pink freud said:


> I've been doing pretty bad in draft, but I've gotten one fetch for every Limited event I've done so I guess I'm winning...



That's another perk of the draft on Friday, I did manage to crack a fetchland in my first pack. Didn't really help my draft, but even if I didn't win anything, I would have broken even.

This format is quite difficult to draft, much different from anything I've drafted before (it might be similar to drafting in Alara, but alas I didn't play back then). The draft I did about two weeks ago was just awful. I dropped after going 0-2.

One thing that I've found helps is that you try and focus on two colors exclusively unless you open something really crazy. Preferably you want to focus on enemy pairings because each of them offers the choice of two clans. If I needed to, I could have switched into Abzan or Mardu. I did take cards for both in Friday's draft, but after sifting through what I drafted, I decided staying two colors was the best route. Looks like I was right.


----------



## pink freud

Had the biggest laugh last night:

Opponent plays a Dream Halls, then casts Recurring Insight, targets an opponent with 9 cards.

My hand: Demonic Tutor, Beseech the Queen, Hinder, Careful Study, 2 lands, Force of Will aaaaaaand Notion Thief


----------



## Xaios

pink freud said:


> Had the biggest laugh last night:
> 
> Opponent plays a Dream Halls, then casts Recurring Insight, targets an opponent with 9 cards.
> 
> My hand: Demonic Tutor, Beseech the Queen, Hinder, Careful Study, 2 lands, Force of Will aaaaaaand Notion Thief



Awesome. 

I played a few games last night. Won a couple of them. First I won with Iroas playing against Sidisi and Mishra. Then I lost playing against the same Mishra as well as Jenara and Nekusar. Playing against the Jenara deck was an exercise in frustration because it was basically counterspells.dec. Finally I won a 1v1 game playing Omnath against Narset.

If you're playing mono-green and you're not playing Magus of the Library, you're doing it wrong. The card advantage he can give if you get him down early is pretty awesome.

Man, the new Commander decks look *really* solid, FAR better than the previous pre-cons.


----------



## pink freud

The red deck is looking like a good investment. Forkcaster Mage, Wurmcoil...


----------



## Xaios

They spoiled all the cards/decks.

My body is ready.


----------



## UV7BK4LIFE

My wife had some trouble finding a new job. That's fixed now 







Currently we have 57644 cards for sale, after a full year of sorting cards and cracking packs  Now we have the whole operation up and running, I have time to play guitar and magic again! I built a Commander deck with Horde of Notions as general, lots of fun!


----------



## Xaios

Well, that dwarfs my collection. 

Anything good for sale?


----------



## loqtrall

Pranked my brother for his birthday. My good friend, who's been playing since LE in '93 (big collector of TCG cards) and I hatched this plan to prank my brother, who also loves everything MTG. He has a bunch of old already opened beta booster pack wrappers, but he doesn't rip his packs open, so they were pretty neat. We stuck a bunch of his random beta cards in there and printed out a beta Black Lotus on a piece of cardstock then flipped it over and printed the back (looked up the exact cardstock WOTC use), cut it out neatly which took 3 or 4 tries, and put it in the pack and painstakingly superglued it. It wasn't an exact match to a MTG card, but it was close enough. I gave it to him and reminded him that my friend was being very generous as Beta boosters run for a cool $1k~ on ebay, and my friend told him that if there was a Black Lotus he'd have to give it to him, which my brother scoffed at.

I truly wish I had recorded his reaction. I've never seen someone so upset when I told him it was fake. I'm pretty sure he literally almost started crying when he unveiled the fake lotus.


----------



## pink freud

I think I've finally got my Mimeoplasm deck tuned to where I want it to be:

Creatures:
1x Consecrated Sphinx
1x Deadeye Navigator
1x Disciple of Bolas
1x Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
1x Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1x Laboratory Maniac
1x Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
1x Notion Thief
1x Palinchron
1x Prime Speaker Zegana
1x Sheoldred, Whispering One
1x Snapcaster Mage
1x Sylvan Safekeeper
1x Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
1x Terastodon
1x Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
1x Woodfall Primus

Sorcery:
1x Beseech the Queen
1x Buried Alive
1x Careful Study
1x Damnation
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Doomsday
1x Enter the Infinite
1x Eureka
1x Exhume
1x Gitaxian Probe
1x Life-Death
1x Personal Tutor
1x Ponder
1x Reanimate
1x Show and Tell
1x Victimize
1x Yawgmoth's Will

Enchantments:
1x Animate Dead
1x Dance of the Dead
1x Dream Halls
1x Greater Good
1x Leyline of Anticipation
1x Necromancy
1x Omniscience
1x Survival of the Fittest
1x Sylvan Library

Artifacts:
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Mana Crypt
1x Sol Ring

Instants:
1x Arcane Denial
1x Brainstorm
1x Delay
1x Entomb
1x Flusterstorm
1x Force of Will
1x Frantic Search
1x Gush
1x Hinder
1x Intuition
1x Krosan Grip
1x Lim-Dul's Vault
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Pact of Negation
1x Spell Crumple
1x Swan Song
1x Tainted Pact
1x Vampiric Tutor

Lands:
1x Alchemist's Refuge
1x Bayou
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1x Breeding Pool
1x City of Brass
1x Drowned Catacomb
1x Flooded Strand
1x Forest
1x Hinterland Harbor
1x Homeward Path
1x Island
1x Llanowar Wastes
1x Mana Confluence
1x Marsh Flats
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Overgrown Tomb
1x Polluted Delta
1x Reflecting Pool
1x Reliquary Tower
1x Snow-Covered Forest
1x Snow-Covered Island
1x Snow-Covered Swamp
1x Swamp
1x Tainted Isle
1x Tainted Wood
1x Tropical Island
1x Underground River
1x Underground Sea
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Verdant Catacombs
1x Watery Grave
1x Woodland Cemetery
1x Yavimaya Coast

It's a true-singleton deck due to Tainted Pact. Lab-Maniac is the win-con, with 3 hard-combo ways of getting there, and a soft-combo for the fourth.

1) Omniscience/Dream Halls -> Enter the Infinite

2) Doomsday -> Stack pile Frantic Search, Mana Crypt/Counterspell if needed, Careful Study, Lab Maniac, Gush/Gitaxian Probe

3) Lab Maniac -> Tainted Pact -> Any draw spell

4) The most entertaining (in my mind) is getting out Omniscience but not having EtI in hand. One of the funnest things to do is cast Kozi off of Omni, then Prime Speaker, draw thirteen, cast Disciple saccing PSZ drawing another thirteen and then reanimating PSZ to draw thirteen yet again. You can also draw the deck off of Mik + Woodfall Primus + Greater Good (plus the benefit of destroying all of your opponents' non-creature permanents).

The Eldrazi also help with recycling. When your early-game goal is to get Jin-Gitaxias out ASAP you'll bin a fair amount of cards that you might need early on.

It's fairly resilient. I've won through a Teeg and an Elesh Norn (Show and Tell is a hell of a card, and luckily Dance of the Dead gives +1/+1), I've instant-speed reanimated Eldrazi before, and my favorite: Reanimate somebody else's Jin-Gitaxias in response to them trying to reanimate it.

I've really come to enjoy Vintage-Lite EDH


----------



## Nile

I'm tempted to rid my Maelstrom Wanderer deck of foils even though I'm only like 10 cards away from having it foiled out. Having like $800 worth of foils is weird cause i can make like two more well-tuned decks with it but at the same time look at all these cool shiny things I have. It's easily my best deck and funnest to play.

Vintage-esque EDH is always fun.


----------



## Xaios

Played at a Commander release tourney today. Did pretty good. Played Daretti, and he was actually a great deck. These decks are just head and shoulders above any of the past decks out of the box, even if none of the generals are busted and broken.


----------



## Xaios

Built a Daretti EDH deck:

Commander (1):
- Daretti, Scrap Servant

Planeswalkers (1):
- Chandra, Pyromaster

Artifact Creatures (18):
- Blightsteel Colossus
- Bosh, Iron Golem
- Copper Gnomes
- Duplicant
- Epochrasite
- Junk Diver
- Karn, Silver Golem
- Kuldotha Forgemaster
- Myr Battlesphere
- Myr Retriever
- Pilgrim's Eye
- Scarecrone
- Scuttling Doom Engine
- Shimmer Myr
- Solemn Simulacrum
- Soul of New Phyrexia
- Steel Hellkite
- Wurmcoil Engine

Non-Artifact Creatures (4):
- Anger
- Goblin Welder
- Hoard-Smelter Dragon
- Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient

Enchantments (1):
- Aggressive Mining

Artifacts (32):
- Caged Sun 
- Clock of Omens
- Crucible of Worlds
- Darksteel Forge
- Everflowing Chalice
- Extraplanar Lens
- Fire Diamond
- Ichor Wellspring
- Liquimetal Coating
- Loreseeker's Stone
- Lux Cannon
- Mind Stone
- Mirrorworks
- Mycosynth Lattice
- Myr Turbine
- Pithing Needle
- Planar Portal
- Pristine Talisman
- Rings of Brighthearth
- Sensei's Divining Top
- Skullclamp
- Sol Ring
- Spine of Ish Sah
- Swiftfoot Boots
- Trading Post
- Tower of Fortunes
- Unstable Obelisk
- Unwinding Clock
- Vedalken Orrery 
- Ward of Bones 
- Wayfarer's Bauble
- Witchbane Orb

Instants (4):
- Chaos Warp
- Shattering Pulse
- Starstorm
- Word of Seizing

Sorceries (3):
- Blasphemous Act
- Chain Reaction 
- Scrap Mastery

Non-Basic Lands (13): 
- Arcane Lighthouse
- Buried Ruin
- Darksteel Citadel
- Flamekin Village
- Forgotten Cave
- Ghost Quarter 
- Great Furnace
- Maze of Ith
- Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
- Phyrexia's Core
- Reliquary Tower
- Smoldering Crater
- Urza's Factory

Basic Lands (23):
23x Mountain


----------



## pink freud

In that list I'd so be tempted to put in Isochron Scepter and Shrapnel Blast 

In other news, I've learned if the G/R/x player has Titania out, DO NOT LET THEM RESOLVE SCAPESHIFT. Get Valakut'd AND they get a billion 5-power tokens.


----------



## RV350ALSCYTHE

loqtrall said:


> Pranked my brother for his birthday. My good friend, who's been playing since LE in '93 (big collector of TCG cards) and I hatched this plan to prank my brother, who also loves everything MTG. He has a bunch of old already opened beta booster pack wrappers, but he doesn't rip his packs open, so they were pretty neat. We stuck a bunch of his random beta cards in there and printed out a beta Black Lotus on a piece of cardstock then flipped it over and printed the back (looked up the exact cardstock WOTC use), cut it out neatly which took 3 or 4 tries, and put it in the pack and painstakingly superglued it. It wasn't an exact match to a MTG card, but it was close enough. I gave it to him and reminded him that my friend was being very generous as Beta boosters run for a cool $1k~ on ebay, and my friend told him that if there was a Black Lotus he'd have to give it to him, which my brother scoffed at.
> 
> I truly wish I had recorded his reaction. I've never seen someone so upset when I told him it was fake. I'm pretty sure he literally almost started crying when he unveiled the fake lotus.



Awesome Prank!

I used to print out card tops of revised and older sets, glue them onto commons, place them in my plastic sleeves and played games with them 

Wizard Magazine used to have pages of real card size high quality photos as well, thin paper perfect for gluing on top of other cards.

The Local card store kept bugging my friend for his fake cards thinking they were real Alphas and Betas (back in mid 90s).


----------



## Xaios

pink freud said:


> In that list I'd so be tempted to put in Isochron Scepter and Shrapnel Blast
> 
> In other news, I've learned if the G/R/x player has Titania out, DO NOT LET THEM RESOLVE SCAPESHIFT. Get Valakut'd AND they get a billion 5-power tokens.



Speaking of Titania, a buddy of mine built a mono-green Stax deck with Titania as the commander. I didn't see the game myself, but apparently he tabled.


----------



## M3CHK1LLA

so i just figured out the staff at wizards are a bunch of nerds with no girlfriends...

how you wonder? the game day for "fate reforged" is going to be on valentines day


----------



## pink freud

M3CHK1LLA said:


> so i just figured out the staff at wizards are a bunch of nerds with no girlfriends...
> 
> how you wonder? the game day for "fate reforged" is going to be on valentines day



It's my Birthday Present. It just happens to be on Valentines Day


----------



## Asrial

Xaios said:


> Speaking of Titania, a buddy of mine built a mono-green Stax deck with Titania as the commander. I didn't see the game myself, but apparently he tabled.



I want to build that on cockatrice just to see what happens.


----------



## UV7BK4LIFE

My niece had her 12th birthday last week, so I giftwrapped a Heroes Vs. Monsters duel deck. Which raised a few eyebrows (my wife, and her mom, especially... ) Within 30 minutes her cousin was teaching her how to play the game and she really liked it. 

Oh and her dad is now beating himself up for giving away his collection of Beta to Revised 10 years ago when his daughter was 2....


----------



## pink freud

Achievement Unlocked:

Swung with a creature -> Howl of the Horde -> Arrow Storm -> 15 Damage to the dome!


----------



## Xaios

So, something funny happened last night.

I started playing in Zendikar. I quickly gained a reputation as "the Ally guy" because I loved playing Allies. I did so to great success in Standard, with even a matchup against Caw-Blade that wasn't pants-crappingly bad.

I've been concocting, for my own amusement, a Modern Allies deck. It's stronger than people would expect, but I was also never under the illusion that it was a T1 deck.

Last night I did some playtesting. Not a lot, but I probably played about 20 games against a tuned modern Abzan deck running all the good stuff: Liliana of the Veil, Dark Confidant, Tarmogoyf, Abrupt Decay, all that stuff. Amazingly enough, we found that the pre-board matchup actually tends to favor me.

One game in particular I managed to absolutely go off like crazy. T1 -> Noble Hierarch, T2 -> Noble Hierarch + Harabaz Druid, T3 -> Kazandu Blademaster + Jwari Shapeshifter (copying Blademaster) + Mass Appeal (drawing FIVE cards) + Hada Freeblade.

I actually plan to cut Jwari Shapeshifter because sometimes it's really a dead card. Also, I can't use colored mana from Cavern of Souls to cast it if I've selected "Human" with cavern, as it's not a Human while in hand. This is what I think the mainboard will look like:

2x Noble Hierarch
4x Hada Freeblade
2x Champion of the Parish
4x Akoum Battlesinger (this card was just beastly)
4x Kazandu Blademaster
3x Oran-Rief Survivalist
4x Harabaz Druid
4x Kabira Evangel
1x Adaptive Automaton
3x Talus Paladin

4x Mass Appeal
3x Path to Exile

+ Ultra Greedy Mana. 

I know what you're thinking when you look at this, "why the hell is he running 2 splash colors for only 1 card in each?" The fact is, both Akoum Battlesinger and Mass Appeal are just *that good*. If the deck had to stick to W/G only, it wouldn't be nearly as powerful.

I'll likely be attending a GP in late February. While lots can happen between now and then, these are the sideboard options I'm contemplating (being in white really helps):

Leyline of Sanctity - thankfully I've got a boatload of these. I opened 7 of them (including a foil) in M11 before Modern was announced, and at the time they were still a bulk rare. Thankfully I kept all of them. This is a great option against Discard and Burn. It also makes it so Liliana can't make me sac creatures.

Stony Silence - the go-to modern tech against Affinity. Also does good work against Urzatron.

Rest In Peace - Wrecks any deck that relies on Treasure Cruise. It may be less of a concern come February though because there's a distinct possibility that Treasure Cruise will be banned by the time this GP rolls around.

Ray of Revelation - Deals with Jeskai Ascendancy and Splinter Twin.


----------



## michblanch

My son plays Magic in a lot of tournaments. I gave no clue what the game is, but apparently he is really good at it. 
He recently had an article written about his strategy and play. 

All I know is that I give him my Hilton Honors points for all of his travel and hotel stays.


----------



## pink freud

Xaios said:


> Stony Silence - the go-to modern tech against Affinity. Also does good work against Urzatron.



You know what the best use of Stony Silence (and Null Rod) is?

Have at least one creature out when your opponent has none, and then get Mycosynth Lattice on the field.


----------



## Nile

michblanch said:


> My son plays Magic in a lot of tournaments. I gave no clue what the game is, but apparently he is really good at it.
> He recently had an article written about his strategy and play.
> 
> All I know is that I give him my Hilton Honors points for all of his travel and hotel stays.



Who is he?


----------



## michblanch

Nile said:


> Who is he?




I'd rather not give his personal information here. 
But the article was about some abnormal strategy he developed and was mopping up with it. 
He brings home all kinds of stuff from the tournament he enters.
There is a large Magic following here in Houston. 

What's crazy is that he talks to me and I have no clue what the hell he is saying. 
And as I read the posts from this thread I realize I am dumb. 

He shows me cards that are worth crazy money and I stunned. And there's not one baseball player on any of them.


----------



## Xaios

Played a GP Trial yesterday for which top prize was 2 byes at GP Vancouver in February. Managed to come in 2nd place playing my Temur Midrange/Monsters deck. The deck I lost to in the final round was Abzan Aggro. No free byes for me, but still a decent chunk of store credit.

This is the list:

1x Icy Blast
4x Sylvan Caryatid
2x Rattleclaw Mystic
3x Singing Bell Strike
2x Genesis Hydra
4x Savage Knuckleblade
3x Temur Ascendancy
2x Temur Charm
4x Polukranos, World Eater
1x Xenagos, the Reveler
1x Kiora, the Crashing Wave
3x Stormbreath Dragon
1x Surrak Dragonclaw
1x Xenagos, God of Revels
2x Sagu Mauler
2x See the Unwritten

4x Temple of Mystery
4x Temple of Abandon
2x Shivan Reef
2x Yavimaya Coast
3x Wooded Foothills
3x Mana Confluence
3x Forest
2x Mountain
1x Island

Not gonna lie, the Abzan Aggro deck just trounced me, as it did literally everyone that day. That deck was fast and extremely resilient. It was like playing against a Jund deck from Alara/Zendikar.

I did have some pretty epic matches against an Abzan Reanimator deck, though. I played him twice yesterday, first in swiss, and then again when we cut to Top 8. I won both matches 2-1, but they were hard-fought for both of us all the way.


----------



## pink freud

So my local group has started a "Budget Commander" night. Essentially no card in the deck can be over $2 as bought by the local store or as found on TCG NM + Shipping.

Little do they know, but Doomsday, Necrotic Ooze + Phyrexian Devourer + Triskelion and Deadeye Navigator + Peregrin Drake + Exsanguinate/Debt to the Deathless are all under $2


----------



## Xaios

Does that restriction apply to the General as well?


----------



## UV7BK4LIFE

Blue Black huh? Fun!

Mephidross Vampire + Triskelion: Infinite Ping

Necromancy + Kederekt Leviathan = Mass bounce on demand 

High Tide + Palinchron


----------



## pink freud

Xaios said:


> Does that restriction apply to the General as well?



Yep. Just shoving it all in an Esper Control shell with Trolloro as the general.

It's funny have two completely separate ways of winning on turn four in a "casual" format (Lab Maniac through Doomsday or Tainted Pact and turn three Buried Alive into turn four reanimation or Volrath's Shapeshifter). The funniest is the turn five win off of a turn four Quicken + Doomsday though. Nobody ever sees it coming and they probably don't have answers available.


----------



## pink freud

UV7BK4LIFE said:


> Blue Black huh? Fun!
> 
> Mephidross Vampire + Triskelion: Infinite Ping
> 
> Necromancy + Kederekt Leviathan = Mass bounce on demand
> 
> High Tide + Palinchron



Esper, but yeah, I know only U/B/x. Best colors ever.

That vampire trick only kills creatures though. With Necrotic Ooze + Trike + Phyrexian Devourer (with Volrath's Shapeshifter as Ooze if need be) you simply exile the top card of your library and start pinging people. The trick is the CMC of the rest of your deck has to be at least as high as the combined life totals of all your opponents. 

Necromancy is over the $2 format.

Palinchron sadly isn't legal in this format (again, over $2), thus Peregrine Drake + Deadeye. Also this deck runs one Island and one Snow-Covered Island, so High Tide doesn't do much. Reason being is that Tainted Pact is one hell of a card. It can be an alternate win-con off of Lab Maniac (exile your whole deck) or it can be an instant-speed Demonic Tutor if you're willing to pay the price of losing a lot of your deck.

The format is charming in it's own little way (especially for a person like my who loves breaking things). The only thing that I kind of object to is a lot of the players want to force it to be more casual, so they don't agree with me that land destruction is a viable response to ramp (it's important to note that Search for Tomorrow, Cultivate, Kodama's Reach, Explosive Vegetation, Skyshroud Claim AND Boundless Realms are all legal in the <$2 format). My stance is if it's acceptable for somebody to have every basic out of their deck on turn six it should be equally acceptable for me to blow them all up.

Another weird thing about this meta is there is a LOT of infect. I pointed this out and nobody really had a problem with it, so the next time a green player swung at another green player for over ten damage after no blocks were declared I cast Tainted Strike. Then that green player cast Triumph of the Hordes and swung at me with 15 creatures so I Rakdos Charmed him.


----------



## Xaios

pink freud said:


> Then that green player cast Triumph of the Hordes and swung at me with 15 creatures so I Rakdos Charmed him.



Mwaha, that's awesome.


----------



## Nile

Veteran Explorer+Phyrexian Reclamation+Goblin Sharpshooter. Randomly came upon that synergy while playing Prossh. Worked really well.


----------



## loqtrall

I'm tempted to jump on the Duel Deck Anthology as a little x-mas gift to myself, any opinions?


----------



## pink freud

Nile said:


> Veteran Explorer+Phyrexian Reclamation+Goblin Sharpshooter. Randomly came upon that synergy while playing Prossh. Worked really well.



You're a brave man. I know people in my playgroup who would tutor up MLD in response to that.


----------



## UV7BK4LIFE

pink freud said:


> Necromancy is over the $2 format.



Wow, that thing went up really fast lately, I see. Didn't expect that.

https://www.magiccardmarket.eu/Products/Singles/Visions/Necromancy


----------



## ittoa666

loqtrall said:


> I'm tempted to jump on the Duel Deck Anthology as a little x-mas gift to myself, any opinions?



O got it myself and was quite pleased. I wasn't playing when they came out, and the cards from the jade deck were a welcome addition. Dat counter spell though. And then there's the demonic tutor that's worth a little bit.

Overall, good buy. Also, the box and deck boxes are foily. Pretty cool.


----------



## pink freud

I had a person actually rage at me last night. Full-on yelling.

My draw: Vampiric Tutor, Intuition, Misty Rainforest, Show and Tell, Dream Halls, black card, blue card.

Turn 1: Fetch for Underground Sea, V-Tutor for Mana Crypt, pass.
Turn 2: Pass. (No land)
Turn 3: Play Mana Crypt, EOT Intuition for Snapcaster Mage, Yawgmoth's Will and Enter the Infinite.

He was mad, but _I_ had fun.


----------



## Nile

pink freud said:


> I had a person actually rage at me last night. Full-on yelling.
> 
> My draw: Vampiric Tutor, Intuition, Misty Rainforest, Show and Tell, Dream Halls, black card, blue card.
> 
> Turn 1: Fetch for Underground Sea, V-Tutor for Mana Crypt, pass.
> Turn 2: Pass. (No land)
> Turn 3: Play Mana Crypt, EOT Intuition for Snapcaster Mage, Yawgmoth's Will and Enter the Infinite.
> 
> *He was mad, but I had fun.*



That's the point. *Also who the f7ck keeps a no land hand?* Disregard.


----------



## pink freud

Nile said:


> That's the point. Also who the f7ck keeps a no land hand?



It was a one land hand! And I've kept Mox Opal, Sol Ring and Mana Crypt with no lands before in a Sharuum deck


----------



## Nile

pink freud said:


> It was a one land hand! And I've kept Mox Opal, Sol Ring and Mana Crypt with no lands before in a Sharuum deck



Thought it was the opponent who kept a one lander. Ignore what I said lol.


----------



## Asrial

I went to the pre-release and chose Abzan. Had a bonkers pool, but still went 3-2.





The top two rows, minus the two to the right was in my pool and ugin booster. Rest was in my prize packs.


----------



## WhiteWalls

I went 3-1 so I shouldn't complain but I have to say I liked khans a lot better. Manifest is a super random ability and I lost games simply because my opponent manifested something ridiculous like Abzan Guide while I hit lands.
I like morph because there are only so many morphs in each color so you can guess which one it can be, or at least which kind of morphs you can play around or not. Manifested cards could be absolutely anything and there's no way to interact with them in a fun way in my opinion.


----------



## Xaios

Asrial said:


> I went to the pre-release and chose Abzan. Had a bonkers pool, but still went 3-2.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The top two rows, minus the two to the right was in my pool and ugin booster. Rest was in my prize packs.



Holy balls, you did good!

I also picked Abzan, went 4-1. Mastery of the Unseen is straight up *bonkers* in limited, I won so many games with it. If your opponent isn't packing enchantment removal, it presents incredible inevitability in its manifest ability, while the lifegain ability will keep you alive until you get there. In one game, my opponent did enough damage to kill me twice over, but I still won with 40 life.


----------



## Xaios

Played another event today, went 2-2. The long and short of it is that my pool was juuuuunk. I chose a Mardu box. I ended up playing Temur. That tells you something.


----------



## pink freud

So today WOTC admitted that a slightly inconvenient Ancestral Recall is still _really good._


----------



## Nile

The pre release I played I chose Sultai and ended up in Esper. Went 2-0-1 and we didn't have enough time for the last round so I won five packs. Out of the 10 packs I opened that day plus an Ugin pack the only thing worth opening was Monastery Siege...

The Pod banning goes FU to my half completed Pod deck so I guess I only really lose money on Linvala/Pod/Voice (if it goes down.) The good news is I sold my playset of Duel Deck Grave Trolls for $40.


----------



## Asrial

pink freud said:


> So today WOTC admitted that a slightly inconvenient Ancestral Recall is still _really good._



I laughed my ass off when I saw it went on and became completely banned/restricted in every sanctioned format available... Except standard.


----------



## pink freud

Asrial said:


> I laughed my ass off when I saw it went on and became completely banned/restricted in every sanctioned format available... Except standard.



What's really weird is that DTT is better in most Vintage decks than TC, but no mention.


----------



## Asrial

^I disagree. Yes, it has far better digging ability, but it costs  at best. Double color restrictions are harsh in eternal formats. Tarmogoyf would've been infinitely worse if it was [G][G], too.


----------



## Asrial

Sorry for the doublepost, but I just got my uncles magic collection as a gift, since he moved and didn't want to play anymore.
Holy cow.


----------



## pink freud

Asrial said:


> ^I disagree. Yes, it has far better digging ability, but it costs  at best. Double color restrictions are harsh in eternal formats. Tarmogoyf would've been infinitely worse if it was [G][G], too.




This is Vintage. Every land is an island (plus something else).


----------



## Slayer89

So today I tried out Modern Storm. I forgot how much fun Storm is. Well, at least for the pilot if they like it.


----------



## Xaios

Asrial said:


> Sorry for the doublepost, but I just got my uncles magic collection as a gift, since he moved and didn't want to play anymore.
> Holy cow.



Nicely done!


----------



## Xaios

Made an EDH deck around Alesha, Who Smiles At Death:

General (1):
- Alesha, Who Smiles At Death

Planeswalkers (1):
- Elspeth, Knight-Errant

Creatures (31):
- Adarkar Valkyrie
- Athreos, God of Passage
- Brutal Hordechief
- Burnished Hart
- Disciple of Bolas
- Duergar Hedge-Mage
- Feldon of the Third Path
- Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
- Grand Abolisher
- Grenzo, Dungeon Warden
- Iroas, God of Victory
- Jazal Goldmane
- Karmic Guide
- Knight-Captain of Eos
- Loyal Retainers
- Mangara of Corondor
- Master of Cruelties
- Mentor of the Meek
- Necrotic Sliver
- Nektrataal
- Reveillark
- Rune-Tail, Kitsune Ascendant
- Serra Ascendant
- Siege-Gang Commander
- Solemn Simulacrum
- Stoneforge Mystic
- Sun Titan
- Tajic, Blade of the Legion
- Teysa, Orzhov Scion
- Thought Gorger
- Viscera Seer

Artifacts (12):
- Chromatic Lantern
- Hammer of Purphoros
- Journeyer's Kite
- Loxodon Warhammer
- Nim Deathmantle
- Phyrexian Altar
- Skullclamp
- Sol Ring
- Strionic Resonator
- Sunforger
- Swiftfoot Boots
- Whispersilk Cloak

Enchantments (8):
- Break Through the Line
- Cathars' Crusade
- Crescendo of War
- Glory of Warfare
- Goblin Bombardment
- Spirit Bonds
- Underworld Connections
- Warstorm Surge

Instants (7):
- Chaos Warp
- Condemn
- Crackling Doom
- Hero's Downfall
- Mortify
- Swords to Plowshares
- Utter End

Sorceries (4):
- Buried Alive
- Dregs of Sorrow
- Unburial Rites
- Victimize

+ Lands


----------



## Nile

Lol $50 dollar Azusa price hike. Card is barely worth $20 in reality.

Also my Commander's Arsenal Sylvan Library took a $40-$50 dollar price hike because someone bought all of them.


----------



## Xaios

Nile said:


> Lol $50 dollar Azusa price hike. Card is barely worth $20 in reality.
> 
> Also my Commander's Arsenal Sylvan Library took a $40-$50 dollar price hike because someone bought all of them.



She's only $24 on SCG. Granted they're out of stock and she might be a bit more when they have it again, but it's not quite that bad. Besides, it's just the market reacting to Amulet Bloom at the PT over the weekend. It'll stabilize pretty quick.

CA Sylvan Library going up is less of a surprise, given that it's the only way to get a foil copy of Sylvan Library.


----------



## Slayer89

Planning on playing in my first Legacy event at the end of the month. I didn't have much to spend and we're allowed 10 proxies (just trying to get people into the format), so this is the list I came to. Tons of fun.

4 Nomads en-Kor
4 Cephalid Illusionist
3 Narcomoeba
1 Angel of Glory's Rise
1 Azami, Lady of Scrolls
1 Laboratory Maniac
1 Phantasmagorian

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Careful Study
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
2 Dispel
1 Dread Return
2 Cabal Therapy

2 Tundra
1 Scrubland
3 Arid Mesa
1 Flooded Strand
10 Island
1 Plains


----------



## Xaios

I take it the objective of that deck is to self-mill your entire deck using Nomads en-Kor and Cephalid Illusionist, getting your Narcomoebas on board in the process. Then you sac the Narcomoebas to flashback Dread Return, resurrecting Angel of Glory's Rise, which in turn resurrects Azami and Laboratory Maniac, which you then tap to win the game given that you have no more cards in deck. Classic Cephalid Breakfast with a modern twist.


----------



## WhiteWalls

Slayer89 said:


> Planning on playing in my first Legacy event at the end of the month. I didn't have much to spend and we're allowed 10 proxies (just trying to get people into the format), so this is the list I came to. Tons of fun.



Ha, good times. I used to play Cephalid Breakfast back when it came out in old Extended (with tempest block still legal)
Back then it used Krosan Reclamation to get back Exhume or Reanimate for Sutured Ghoul, which would be a 20+/20+ haste thanks to Dragon Breath. Times changed


----------



## Slayer89

Xaios said:


> I take it the objective of that deck is to self-mill your entire deck using Nomads en-Kor and Cephalid Illusionist, getting your Narcomoebas on board in the process. Then you sac the Narcomoebas to flashback Dread Return, resurrecting Angel of Glory's Rise, which in turn resurrects Azami and Laboratory Maniac, which you then tap to win the game given that you have no more cards in deck. Classic Cephalid Breakfast with a modern twist.



You got it. Should be a good time.


----------



## Nile

That's awesome and classic.


----------



## Slayer89

Ended up going 2-2 at that Legacy event. Beat burn and some random control deck. Lost to Glimpse Affinity and Nic Fit. The majority of my losses were heavily affected by loose keeps. Still a fun time.


----------



## Slayer89

Been having a lot of fun with Cephalid Breakfast. Here's my current list I'm running.

magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=1235226

The lack of pricier cards is due to the fact that this is my proxie free play list. If I were to play in another proxie permitted event the Misdirections and shocks would become Forces and duals.


----------



## Xaios

Went 4-0 for 1st place at a Modern Master 2015 tourney. As part of the prize, I got an ROE acrylic deck box that Wizards sent out to stores back in 2010.


----------



## Asrial

I've recently become really invested in honing our college cube, and I think it's becoming better and better.

CubeTutor.com - Pfantasy Cube (#13565) - Blog


----------



## Xaios

So I bought a singleton pack of Modern Masters 2015 on Friday.

BOOM, Tarmogoyf.

I traded it for a Vendilion Clique and $100 cash, as I'm not really big into modern and V-Clique is more useful in EDH.

Then for my FNM prize pack, I pulled a Den Protector. Did pretty good on Friday.


----------



## pink freud

Xaios said:


> So I bought a singleton pack of Modern Masters 2015 on Friday.
> 
> BOOM, Tarmogoyf.
> 
> I traded it for a Vendilion Clique and $100 cash, as I'm not really big into modern and V-Clique is more useful in EDH.
> 
> Then for my FNM prize pack, I pulled a Den Protector. Did pretty good on Friday.



Nice. I splurged and bought ten packs for $100. Pulled Emrakul, Clique, Iona and Cryptic Command so I definitely made my money back. Already traded the Clique away for a couple of Entombs (one day I'll get that Legacy Reanimator deck built).


----------



## Slayer89

Nice. That's what I'm working on right now. I have a TCGPlayer shopping cart open right now trying to decide if I'm gonna buy my last two Entombs right now. Then all I'd need is the big money cards (Forces and Duals). Then again, I might shift to Tin Fins and just say eff the Forces as well, haha.


----------



## FretsOnFyre

Been lurking on this thread for a while now, figured I'd jump in with a post. I've been playing about three months (considerably less than most of you) and over the last few days I've been throwing together a Standard deck. It's UBR and EXTREME budget (read: mostly using cards out of a DTK Fat Pack and a few M15; it would cost $22 of which $7 is Kolaghan's Command ). I found an interesting synergy with Gurmag Drowner and Dutiful Attendant, self-milling and reanimating the few fatties I have in the deck, and I load up on burn spells for red. I've playtested online and it's definitely a slow, grindy deck. This deck isn't going to win anything serious, but I'd appreciate any feedback!

2x Anticipate
1x Cone of Flame
1x Crater Elemental
1x Divination
1x Duress
3x Dutiful Attendant
1x Evolving Wilds
1x Flatten
2x Flesh to Dust
1x Foul-Tongue Invocation
2x Gravepurge
4x Gurmag Drowner
6x Island
1x Jace's Ingenuity
1x Kolaghan's Command
2x Lava Axe
2x Lightning Strike
1x Mind Rot
8x Mountain
1x Rakshasa Gravecaller
2x Seismic Strike
1x Sengir Vampire
1x Shivan Dragon
1x Sign in Blood
10x Swamp
2x Twin Bolt
3x Typhoid Rats
1x Ukud Cobra


----------



## Slayer89

I'd help you out, but I don't know anything about Standard right now. :/

Playing in another small Legacy event tomorrow and probably playing this Tin Fins build. Only proxies are Underground Seas.


----------



## tacotiklah

Just saw this and thought I'd plop it in here for fun reading...
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/art...thering-Cards-Made-by-Artificial-Intelligence


----------



## FretsOnFyre

tacotiklah said:


> Just saw this and thought I'd plop it in here for fun reading...
> http://www.escapistmagazine.com/art...thering-Cards-Made-by-Artificial-Intelligence



Tears. That was so good.

"Enchanted creature has +2/+2 and feel."


----------



## Xaios

Forgot to say so, but I *loved* that article, as did many of my friends.

I rebuilt Karador today. Been a few weeks since I played EDH so it was gratifying that the deck slayed in a triple Abzan reanimator match with me running Karador and two opponents running Teneb. Here's the list, it was quite effective.

General (1):
- Karador, Ghost Chieftain

Planeswalkers (1):
- Liliana of the Veil

Creatures (33):
- Acidic Slime
- Ashen Rider
- Bane of the Living
- Bloodgift Demon
- Den Protector
- Disciple of Bolas
- Eternal Witness
- Golgari Grave-Troll
- Grave Titan
- Harvester of Souls
- Hornet Queen
- Karmic Guide
- Mangara of Corondor
- Masked Admirers
- Massacre Wurm
- Necrotic Sliver
- Pack Rat
- Reveillark
- Rune-Scarred Demon
- Saffi Eriksdotter
- Sakura-Tribe Elder
- Satyr Wayfinder
- Scavenging Ooze
- Sepulchral Primordial
- Shadowborn Demon
- Sidisi, Undead Vizier
- Solemn Simulacrum
- Sun Titan
- Teneb, the Harvester
- Teysa, Orzhov Scion
- Viscera Seer
- Wood Elves
- Yosei, the Morning Star

Artifacts (6):
- Altar of Dementia
- Birthing Pod
- Bonehoard
- Chromatic Lantern
- Phyrexian Altar
- Sol Ring

Enchantments (2):
- Phyrexian Arena
- Survival of the Fittest

Instants (7):
- Entomb
- Grisly Salvage
- Momentous Fall
- Mortify
- Putrefy
- Swords to Plowshares
- Utter End

Sorceries (13):
- Buried Alive
- Cultivate
- Decree of Pain
- Farseek
- Increasing Ambition
- Life from the Loam
- Living Death
- Maelstrom Pulse
- Mulch
- Skyshroud Claim
- Unburial Rites
- Victimize
- Yawgmoth's Will

Non-Basic Lands (23):
- Command Tower
- Murmuring Bosk
- Sandsteppe Citadel
- Godless Shrine
- Overgrown Tomb
- Temple Garden
- Isolated Chapel
- Sunpetal Grove
- Woodland Cemetery
- Marsh Flats
- Windswept Heath
- Temple of Malady
- Temple of Plenty
- Caves of Koilos
- Llanowar Wastes
- Barren Moor
- Secluded Steppe
- Tranquil Thicket
- Bojuka Bog
- Bant Panorama
- Grim Backwoods
- Svogthos, the Restless Tomb
- Vault of the Archangel

Basic Lands (14):
- Forest x 5
- Plains x 2
- Swamp x 7

The all-stars tonight were Massacre Wurm, Pack Rat, Satyr Wayfinder, Sun Titan and Altar of Dementia. Then I finished off the game with some Reveillark + Karmic Guide shenanigans. Once I'd killed one opponent with combat damage, I nuked the other one by exiling all his creatures and destroying all his other permanents. Pack Rat got me an army while filling my yard to enable Karador, and Massacre Wurm did some heavy lifting when opponents got out their token armies to play defense.


----------



## UV7BK4LIFE

I went to an FNM event, modern format. I basically built a classic legacy Eva Green deck without Dark Ritual and Hymn to Tourach.

I had this interesting conversation:

" What's that?" 
" Are you kidding me? I'm casting Hypnotic Specter." 
" Is that Modern Legal?" 
" It was printed in Alpha to 4th, 9th, and M10, so yes." 
" What does it do? (It was 4th edition black bordered in Japanese)" 
Explanation follows
" Okay." 
I pass the turn.

Next turn, I attack with the Specter.
"I'm changing it's target to Spellskite" 
"You just paid two life, but it's not targeted, and your spellskite is not a player, cannot discard at random, so it's not even a legal target"


When I got home I looked at the original decklist, it was from 2008. Most of my opponents were 13 then  There's so many classics that are still modern legal, but everyone is looking at popular decks on the internet that are built by young players.


----------



## Asrial

^Dude was a newb.

Also, BFZ is fully spoiled. So far, the eldrazi ("UBRG") vs. Allies (WUbRG), the elementals (RG) and the land itself (WUB) looks like a weird, but flavorful limited environment.


----------



## Xaios

UV7BK4LIFE said:


> Next turn, I attack with the Specter.
> "I'm changing it's target to Spellskite"
> "You just paid two life, but it's not targeted, and your spellskite is not a player, cannot discard at random, so it's not even a legal target"
> .



Dafuq. 

(Although technically he couldn't have paid the life, as he couldn't activate the ability without a target.)

Disassembled my Kresh and Jenara EDH decks over the weekend. Jenara became standard issue Rafiq of the Many, because sometimes you just have to attack. Meanwhile, I also built Damia Sultai Superfriends. Looking forward to trying them out.


----------



## UV7BK4LIFE

Xaios said:


> Dafuq.
> 
> (Although technically he couldn't have paid the life, as he couldn't activate the ability without a target.)
> 
> Disassembled my Kresh and Jenara EDH decks over the weekend. Jenara became standard issue Rafiq of the Many, because sometimes you just have to attack. Meanwhile, I also built Damia Sultai Superfriends. Looking forward to trying them out.


 
Nice! I did the same last year, swap Jenara for Rafiq. The nonland cards are 1/3 mana acceleration with cmc <2 so you can have him out on turn 3, and 1/3 equipment that you can equip on turn 4. So cmc + equip cost must be 4 or less. The rest is stuff to protect rafiq (blink, redirect, protection) or other creatures that work well with equipment. Sometimes he can swing for lethal general damage on turn 4, and consistently on turn 5.

I don't understand why hypnotic specter isn't played at all in Modern. It's wrecking combo and tron and still one of the best black 3 drops, even without dark ritual.


----------



## Xaios

Probably because it's incredibly weak to burn and midrange, owing to the fact that a) it does nothing the turn it comes down, and b) it's a 2/2 for 3 mana with no ability to affect the board. Not a great rate for a creature. Plus, the random discard only beats targeted discard when it's done in multiples, a la Hymn to Tourach or Mind Twist. Otherwise you're not generating any card advantage, while leaving open the chance that they may discard something they don't actually need.


----------



## Nile

I feel like I'm too invested in Modern. I have Grixis/Tarmo/UR whatever Twin I want, a big Zoo deck, Burn/Zoo Burn, Infect, Living End, Merfolk, almost any iteration of straight up control/midrange control I want, some pieces to Jund/Junk and Chord combo decks. I have literally almost every staple in Modern and only use my Zoo for fun and Twin for tournaments. Other than that I have three somewhat expensive Prossh, Edric, and Uril EDH decks and that's it.


----------



## Xaios

Like a baws:


----------



## lelandbowman3

I just got a sealed Graveborn premium. without ridiculously overpriced netdeck cards, what can I do to make it more effective? (besides running a full entomb set.)


----------



## Xaios

On the cheap, you can add green and red, green for Grisly Salvage and/or Mulch and red for Faithless Looting.


----------



## lelandbowman3

Also, what's a foil Scalding Tarn go for?


----------



## lelandbowman3

Battle for Zendikar^^


----------



## Xaios

They're $300 USD on SCG.


----------



## lelandbowman3

looks like a win for me.  I don't play b/r enough (nor do I care for collectables), so I guess I'll be selling it.


----------



## M3CHK1LLA

we held 2 tourneys on sat at our small shop. i think it was 12 players first time, 10 the second round. total of 22 pre-release sold.

another shop had 32-36 and pulled 1 foil expedition land.

another had 35-40 an didnt pull any.

our shop pulled 3. upon opening around 4 cases of 6 booster boxes, 3 more were pulled that we know of so far.


----------



## lelandbowman3

Jeezus. I didn't think they were that rare.


----------



## lelandbowman3

Bam!


----------



## Xaios

Purrrty.


----------



## Sicarius

I decided with BfZ I'd get back in. Built a Mono Black Commander Vampire deck I saw from TCC, bought the newest Fat Pack, and 3 (total) Pre-Release boxes my local place had left over.

I didn't get ..... I gave a dude $20 in store credit for a Drana he had.

There are so many worthless (price wise) cards in this set.. Expeditions and Gideon are where it's at at the moment. I really hope I get better luck out of the booster box I got off Massdrop.


----------



## Xaios

A bit of ridiculousness I dreamed up after a particularly amusing conversation I had during post-FNM supper on Friday.


----------



## lelandbowman3

I also pulled a non foil gideon, so I guess I need to do an eBay for that one as well.


----------



## Slayer89

I'm putting together my first Standard deck in over a year (since Born of the Gods was released). Siege Rhino really is quite a card...


----------



## Xaios

Slayer89 said:


> I'm putting together my first Standard deck in over a year (since Born of the Gods was released). Siege Rhino really is quite a card...



Can't blame you for quitting after Born of the Gods. Aside from Courser of Kruphix, Kiora, Brimaz, a couple Gods and some land, that set was shiiiiiit.


----------



## Sicarius

My booster box from Massdrop came in, and I pulled a Gideon, an Ob Nixilis, Ulamog and Drana


----------



## Slayer89

Xaios said:


> Can't blame you for quitting after Born of the Gods. Aside from Courser of Kruphix, Kiora, Brimaz, a couple Gods and some land, that set was shiiiiiit.



Haha, true that. I mainly just started focusing on Modern and then Legacy. Standard seems kinda fun now. I mean, it's all a bunch of piles of value cards, but I'm digging it.


----------



## Slayer89

Here's my maindeck for Standard right now.






Should be -4 Rakshasa, -2 Gurmag and +3 Hangarback, +2 Ob Nixilis, +1 Den Protector but I've already spent too much on this deck for right now. I'll be picking up the finishing pieces over the next couple weeks hopefully. Gideon is notably absent, but I just can't bring myself to spend that much on a Standard card right now. The red splash is pretty sweet. I was testing with a buddy last night against his Super Friends esque control brew and at one point was facing down active Kiora, Ugin, Sarkhan, and Nissa but managed to win by just burning him out with Rhinos, Crackling Dooms, and Den Protectors to replay them.


----------



## lelandbowman3

I'm doing a modern b/r eldrazi deck right now, and any advice/suggestions/insight would be appreciated. it's built from stuff I've pulled and modded: Fatpack, event deck, intro pack.
Decklist is:
7- swamp
5- mountain
3- akoum refuge
2- rocky tar pit
3- looming spires
2 rogues passage
1- eldrazi temple
1- blighted fen
--creatures--
3- forerunner of slaughter
3- emrakul's hatcher
3- dominator drones
2- silent skimmer
2- vampire nighthawk
1- vile aggregate
1- spike jester
1- It that betrays
1- blight herder
1- ruin processor
1- oblivion sower
1- barage tyrant
1- void winnower
--sorcery--
2- processor assault
2- touch of the void
2- transgress the mind
1- Serpentine Spike
1- corpsehatch
1- shadow slice
--enchantments--
1- Corpseweft
1- Dying Wish
--instants--
2- murderous cut


----------



## FretsOnFyre

^EDIT: I don't think Rocky Tar Pit is Modern legal, unfortunately.

Wow, looking back at my last post here, I really did not get the deckbuilding thing  I think I'm in a happy place with my first Commander deck. It's performed pretty well so far in a fairly casual playgroup.

GENERAL - Bruna, Light of Alabaster

Enchantment (20)
1x Abzan Runemark
1x Alexi's Cloak 
1x Battle Mastery 
1x Bonds of Quicksilver 
1x Chosen by Heliod 
1x Claustrophobia 
1x Corrupted Conscience 
1x Curiosity 
1x Diplomatic Immunity 
1x Divine Favor 
1x Eldrazi Conscription 
1x Ethereal Armor 
1x Glaring Aegis 
1x Holy Mantle 
1x Jeskai Runemark 
1x Pacifism 
1x Pentarch Ward 
1x Siegecraft 
1x Spirit Mantle 
1x Tricks of the Trade 

Artifact (7)
1x Azorius Keyrune 
1x Azorius Signet 
1x Mask of Avacyn 
1x Sol Ring 
1x Swiftfoot Boots 
1x Talisman of Progress 
1x Whispersilk Cloak 

Instant (14)
1x Anticipate 
1x Bone to Ash 
1x Cancel 
1x Cloudshift 
1x Condemn 
1x Essence Scatter 
1x Jace's Ingenuity 
1x Negate 
1x Oblation 
1x Psychic Barrier 
1x Scatter Arc 
1x Scout's Warning 
1x Spell Rupture 
1x Vapor Snag 

Creature (10)
1x Auratouched Mage 
1x Boonweaver Giant 
1x Dragonlord Ojutai 
1x Heliod's Pilgrim 
1x Kithkin Spellduster 
1x Mirror-Mad Phantasm 
1x Ojutai Exemplars 
1x Sovereigns of Lost Alara 
1x Sphinx of Uthuun 
1x Totem-Guide Hartebeest 

Sorcery (10)
1x Akroma's Vengeance 
1x Devastation Tide 
1x Divination 
1x Increasing Confusion 
1x Mass Calcify 
1x Sunscour 
1x Three Dreams 
1x Traumatize 
1x Treasure Cruise 
1x Void Snare 

Land (38)
1x Azorius Guildgate 
1x Bant Panorama 
1x Esper Panorama 
1x Evolving Wilds 
1x Ghost Quarter 
16x Island 
14x Plains 
1x Temple of Enlightenment 
1x Terramorphic Expanse 
1x Tranquil Cove

I'm trying to find a new general to build around now. I'd prefer something that's not Voltron (have that covered fairly well), something that doesn't demand very specific cards (not much money to spend) and I'd like to be able to use black (I have a few fun cards I need a home for). Figured I'd consult this thread - any suggestions?


----------



## lelandbowman3

FretsOnFyre said:


> ^EDIT: I don't think Rocky Tar Pit is Modern legal, unfortunately.



You're right, it isn't: I meant to post legacy, not sure why I wrote modern.


----------



## Xaios

FretsOnFyre said:


> Wow, looking back at my last post here, I really did not get the deckbuilding thing  I think I'm in a happy place with my first Commander deck. It's performed pretty well so far in a fairly casual playgroup.
> 
> GENERAL - Bruna, Light of Alabaster



Some cards your deck could use:
- False Demise
- Fool's Demise
- Abduction
- Flickerform
- Vanishing
- Steel of the Godhead
- Vow of Duty
- Daybreak Coronet
- Armored Ascension
- Winds of Rath
- Tragic Arrogance

Aside from Daybreak Coronet (which honestly isn't really that necessary), none of these cards break $2. Most are under $1.



FretsOnFyre said:


> I'm trying to find a new general to build around now. I'd prefer something that's not Voltron (have that covered fairly well), something that doesn't demand very specific cards (not much money to spend) and I'd like to be able to use black (I have a few fun cards I need a home for). Figured I'd consult this thread - any suggestions?



I'm afraid that doesn't really narrow it down much. What play style do you want the deck to be? "Have black and not be Voltron" doesn't really say much about what you want to do.


----------



## FretsOnFyre

Xaios said:


> I'm afraid that doesn't really narrow it down much. What play style do you want the deck to be? "Have black and not be Voltron" doesn't really say much about what you want to do.



That is true...  Graveyard shenanigans would be fun - I like Ink-Eyes but would prefer two or three colors, and Mimeoplasm and Alesha have been on my radar. Looking for something else along those lines.


----------



## lelandbowman3

Xaios said:


> Some cards your deck could use:
> - False Demise
> - Fool's Demise
> - Abduction
> - Flickerform
> - Vanishing
> - Steel of the Godhead
> - Vow of Duty
> - Daybreak Coronet
> - Armored Ascension
> - Winds of Rath
> - Tragic Arrogance
> 
> Aside from Daybreak Coronet (which honestly isn't really that necessary), none of these cards break $2. Most are under $1.



I'm running red/black, sorry if there was any confusion. I don't do well with splash decks. Just not my thing. Are there any current red/black cards you'd recommend?


----------



## Xaios

lelandbowman3 said:


> I'm running red/black, sorry if there was any confusion. I don't do well with splash decks. Just not my thing. Are there any current red/black cards you'd recommend?



Those cards are for FretsOnFyre's Bruna deck, not your legacy deck.


----------



## Xaios

Built a new Meren of Clan Nel Toth EDH deck:

General (1):
4 Meren of Clan Nel Toth

Planeswalkers (1):
5 Vraska the Unseen

Creatures (36):
1 Caustic Caterpillar
1 Viscera Seer
2 Blood Artist
2 Dawntreader Elk
2 Nezumi Graverobber
2 Pack Rat
2 Sakura-Tribe Elder
2 Satyr Wayfinder
2 Scavenging Ooze
3 Catacomb Sifter
3 Eternal Witness
3 Moriok Replica
3 Wood Elves
3 Yavimaya Elder
4 Bloodline Keeper
4 Disciple of Bolas
4 Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
4 Reaper of the Wilds
4 Smothering Abomination
5 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
5 Lord of Extinction
5 Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest
5 Puppeteer Clique
5 Shriekmaw
5 Sidisi, Undead Vizier
5 Thragtusk
5 Vulturous Zombie
6 Geth, Lord of the Vault
6 Grave Titan
6 Greenwarden of Murasa
6 Harvester of Souls
6 Reaper from the Abyss
7 Butcher of Malakir
7 Pentavus
7 Sepulchral Primordial
8 Terastodon

Artifacts (5):
1 Sol Ring
2 Golgari Signet
2 Lightning Greaves
2 Thought Vessel
4 Birthing Pod

Enchantments (8):
2 Evolutionary Leap
2 Shadows of the Past
3 Attrition
3 Phyrexian Arena
4 Deathreap Ritual
4 Grave Pact
4 Greater Good
5 Dictate of Erebos

Instants (4):
2 Grisly Salvage
3 Beast Within
3 Hero's Downfall
3 Putrefy

Sorceries (8):
3 Kodama's Reach
3 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Toxic Deluge
4 Jarad's Orders
5 Living Death
5 Overwhelming Stampede
7 Tooth and Nail
9 In Garruk's Wake

Non-Basic Lands (20):
1 Barren Moor
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Command Tower
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Golgari Guildgate
1 Golgari Rot Farm
1 Grim Backwoods
1 High Market
1 Jungle Hollow
1 Llanowar Wastes
1 Mosswort Bridge
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Polluted Mire
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Slippery Karst
1 Tainted Wood
1 Temple of Malady
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Woodland Cemetery

Basic Lands (17):
8 Forest
9 Swamp

Look forward to trying it out next week. Anyone have any thoughts?


----------



## gnoll

Xaios said:


> Built a new Meren of Clan Nel Toth EDH deck:
> 
> General (1):
> 4 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
> 
> Planeswalkers (1):
> 5 Vraska the Unseen
> 
> Creatures (36):
> 1 Caustic Caterpillar
> 1 Viscera Seer
> 2 Blood Artist
> 2 Dawntreader Elk
> 2 Nezumi Graverobber
> 2 Pack Rat
> 2 Sakura-Tribe Elder
> 2 Satyr Wayfinder
> 2 Scavenging Ooze
> 3 Catacomb Sifter
> 3 Eternal Witness
> 3 Moriok Replica
> 3 Wood Elves
> 3 Yavimaya Elder
> 4 Bloodline Keeper
> 4 Disciple of Bolas
> 4 Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
> 4 Reaper of the Wilds
> 4 Smothering Abomination
> 5 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
> 5 Lord of Extinction
> 5 Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest
> 5 Puppeteer Clique
> 5 Shriekmaw
> 5 Sidisi, Undead Vizier
> 5 Thragtusk
> 5 Vulturous Zombie
> 6 Geth, Lord of the Vault
> 6 Grave Titan
> 6 Greenwarden of Murasa
> 6 Harvester of Souls
> 6 Reaper from the Abyss
> 7 Butcher of Malakir
> 7 Pentavus
> 7 Sepulchral Primordial
> 8 Terastodon
> 
> Artifacts (5):
> 1 Sol Ring
> 2 Golgari Signet
> 2 Lightning Greaves
> 2 Thought Vessel
> 4 Birthing Pod
> 
> Enchantments (8):
> 2 Evolutionary Leap
> 2 Shadows of the Past
> 3 Attrition
> 3 Phyrexian Arena
> 4 Deathreap Ritual
> 4 Grave Pact
> 4 Greater Good
> 5 Dictate of Erebos
> 
> Instants (4):
> 2 Grisly Salvage
> 3 Beast Within
> 3 Hero's Downfall
> 3 Putrefy
> 
> Sorceries (8):
> 3 Kodama's Reach
> 3 Maelstrom Pulse
> 3 Toxic Deluge
> 4 Jarad's Orders
> 5 Living Death
> 5 Overwhelming Stampede
> 7 Tooth and Nail
> 9 In Garruk's Wake
> 
> Non-Basic Lands (20):
> 1 Barren Moor
> 1 Bojuka Bog
> 1 Command Tower
> 1 Evolving Wilds
> 1 Golgari Guildgate
> 1 Golgari Rot Farm
> 1 Grim Backwoods
> 1 High Market
> 1 Jungle Hollow
> 1 Llanowar Wastes
> 1 Mosswort Bridge
> 1 Overgrown Tomb
> 1 Polluted Mire
> 1 Reliquary Tower
> 1 Slippery Karst
> 1 Tainted Wood
> 1 Temple of Malady
> 1 Terramorphic Expanse
> 1 Tranquil Thicket
> 1 Woodland Cemetery
> 
> Basic Lands (17):
> 8 Forest
> 9 Swamp
> 
> Look forward to trying it out next week. Anyone have any thoughts?



Yeah, I have a thought. You can't have 8 Terastodon in an EDH deck. Overall, it looks like you have to slim that deck down CONSIDERABLY... Like, one of each card, duuude........

And that goes for the general too. And I don't know if you realize this, but having 4 of the same general won't do you any good ANYWAY, since if you have one out and you cast another one THEY WILL BOTH DIE!!! That's because they're mythical creatures and they have special rules compared to the normal ones..............

Anywayzzzz, gl.......


----------



## Xaios

Got the munchies?


----------



## gnoll

Xaios said:


> Got the munchies?



Ok how about

sylvan library

mirri's guile

fecundity

wall of blossoms

elvish visionary

green sun's zenith

dryad arbor

survival of the fittest

reclamation sage

aluren

abrupt decay

gravecrawler

bloodghast

carrion feeder

phyrexian ghoul

nantuko husk

blood pet?

deathrite shaman

edit: the black creature from saga who gives you mana when you cast him (priest of gix i just realized he's called)

edit again: fleshbag marauder (+merciless executioner, functional reprint), innocent blood, pox cards....

edit 3: you probably want discard outlets too, no? lotleth troll, wild mongrel... and hell, why not get a vengevine in there. oh, and basking rotwalla

edit 4: sacrifice altars...... phyrexia, dementia, ashnod's........

edit 5 omg i just keep thinking of more stuff: phyrexian tower, and OF COURSE skullclamp

edit 6: cabal therapy! and veteran explorer POSSIBLY

edit 7: devoted druid

edit 8: you probably want to protect your general..... sylvan safekeeper? discard could help with that too, thoughtseize, inquisition of kozilek etc.... might work better overall than removal cards like putrefy etc.

edit 9: entomb, buried alive, some reanimation.... reanimate, exhume, animate dead are the best ones i suppose... maybe not exhume in edh, idk...


----------



## Xaios

A lot of the cards you listed would be great if I was playing a regular 60 card deck. Some of the cards I would put in if I had copies to spare (after all, I have 13 EDH decks, there are only so many copies of Sylvan Library to go around). Some are decent suggestions that simply didn't make it into the final version. However, a lot of these cards are only good in the early game, and don't scale well for multiplayer or the starting life total of 40.


----------



## gnoll

Can you elaborate?

I admit I don't play edh, but I think most of the cards I listed are just the strongest cards period for this kind of deck.

And anyway I don't get how you're gonna get your big guys into the graveyard... seems to me you'd need to discard them, entomb them, or play them first and then sacrifice them. I mean you have a few cards like Grisly Salvage but is that really gonna be enough? What if you draw your Terastodon and you don't have a discard outlet?


----------



## Xaios

gnoll said:


> Can you elaborate?
> 
> I admit I don't play edh, but I think most of the cards I listed are just the strongest cards period for this kind of deck.
> 
> And anyway I don't get how you're gonna get your big guys into the graveyard... seems to me you'd need to discard them, entomb them, or play them first and then sacrifice them. I mean you have a few cards like Grisly Salvage but is that really gonna be enough? What if you draw your Terastodon and you don't have a discard outlet?



EDH games tend to run far longer than games involving a 60 card deck, owing to the fact that it's a) a 100 card singleton format, b) 40 starting life, and c) multiplayer. It's exceedingly rare for a person not to live long enough to hard-cast a Terastodon, and if they don't, it's likely because they died to something that a reanimated Terastodon wouldn't have saved them from anyway. Often times being hyper-efficient in EDH isn't enough. Raw power counts a lot more than it does in other formats. That's why you rarely see things like Brainstorm, Ponder or Preordain in EDH outside of combo decks.

That's not to say that the cards you listed can't be good in other decks. Many certainly are. I manage the EDH primer for Omnath, Locus of Mana on MTGSalvation, and I run five of the cards you listed (Sylvan Library, Mirri's Guile, Survival of the Fittest, Green Sun's Zenith and Aluren) in that deck. But they're not the best choices here. Meren doesn't support the turbo reanimator style that you're going for, because she's restricted by experience counters. As such, any of the cards that I have which "fill the yard" do so as a secondary effect. Grisly Salvage and Satyr Wayfinder help me find land. Pack Rat makes some terrifying tokens. Jarad's Orders tutors for a silver bullet that I need at the time while providing additional plays in the future. What Meren does is she provides incremental value over time. Generals like Karador and Sidisi (the BUG version) are more suited to that sort of turbo reanimator you're thinking of.


----------



## UV7BK4LIFE

You don't want to draw Inquisition of Kozilek in turn 14 to see your opponent's hand full of 5 and 6 drops, no. That's pretty much the difference between EDH and Modern or Legacy.

I played the Meren of CNT preconstructed deck last week, we unboxed the whole set with our playgroup. It was fun to play them right out of the box. I definately would play survival of the fittest in this deck, it's so broken with this general it's not even funny anymore. And I had a blast with recurring eternal witness about 8 times in one game.


----------



## gnoll

Hmh, edh must be insanely slow then.

Is it really not possible to build edh decks that kill faster than that...? It just feels like I could easily build an edh deck that would slaughter anything trying to hardcast a Terastodon.


----------



## Xaios

Is it possible to win faster? Yes. Is it likely? Absolutely not, for several reasons:

- 100 card singleton takes the consistency of a typical 60 card deck and throws it out the window.
- 40 starting life total, while only being twice that of a normal game, really equates to being about 4 times harder to kill someone with a typical aggro-style strategy, ESPECIALLY because...
- Multiplayer. In a 1v1 60 card match, you have to deal 20 damage to win. In a 4 player EDH match, you have to deal 120.
- Politics is VERY real in EDH. If you come out guns blazing, then you better have a backup plan, because you'll soon find every other person at the table devoted to eliminating you first. On the flip-side, people are also wary of the guy who just seems to be sitting back, biding his time.
- Your Commander is always a known constant, before the game even starts. If people even suspect you're playing a deck that wins either with infinite combos or prison-style lockouts, you're probably gonna die first.

As a thought experiment, imagine yourself playing the kind of creatures that you listed. You came out perfectly, and on turn 6 (which is still REALLY optimistic considering the 40 life total), you deal someone lethal damage. However, you basically had to spend your whole hand doing so. You pass the turn. The next player casts Wrath of God. All your creatures are dead, can't be regenerated. Then the next person plays... well there are lots of options: Bojuka Bog, Rest In Peace, Grafdigger's Cage, Nihil Spellbomb, Tormod's Crypt, Angel of Finality... whatever they do, it exiles your graveyard. The point is, all the resources you committed to that relatively fast kill, save for your mana, have now been completely wiped out. You can recast your general, but with no more graveyard, that's not gonna do you much good.

I think you know where I'm going with this.

And yes, EDH is definitely slower overall. A typical multiplayer game usually takes at least an hour.


----------



## gnoll

Mhh, yeah, I think I'll stick to legacy. Edh seems like "best player loses" to me.


----------



## Xaios

That is untrue. It's simply that what makes you the best player at a table isn't the same as it is in legacy.


----------



## UV7BK4LIFE

gnoll said:


> Hmh, edh must be insanely slow then.
> 
> Is it really not possible to build edh decks that kill faster than that...? It just feels like I could easily build an edh deck that would slaughter anything trying to hardcast a Terastodon.



Turn one and two either a mana dude or equipment, turn 3 Rafiq of the Many,
turn 4 another equipment and equip both, then swing for lethal (=21) general damage.


----------



## lelandbowman3

Someone is in serious s--t.
Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet


----------



## Xaios

Hohooo, damn.


----------



## lelandbowman3

Xaios said:


> Hohooo, damn.



my thoughts exactly. there is probably an opening at Wizards now lol.


----------



## Asrial

Either that, or he was already fired and wanted to go out with style.

Either case, HOT DAMN WASTELAND AND HORIZON CANOPY! Strip mine is gorgeous, and Adam Paquette filters, oh yes!

Kozileks return is disgusting as hell, and Crumbling Vestige is awesome limited fodder.


----------



## lelandbowman3

I'm really excited for Shadows Over Innistrad, and can't wait for that set.


----------



## gnoll

I don't get it, they're reprinting Wasteland, Strip Mine and all those other lands? Isn't that... weird?

And what happened with the colorless mana symbols?


----------



## lelandbowman3

gnoll said:


> I don't get it, they're reprinting Wasteland, Strip Mine and all those other lands? Isn't that... weird?
> 
> And what happened with the colorless mana symbols?



I think they're doing expedition lands as a way to sell more boosters, to be honest. They've been fixated on making specialized lands more of a thing for a while now. It's kind of ridiculous at this point. I pulled a Scalding Tarn expedition (reprint of the old Zendikar) and sold it for 200 on ebay. Kind of crazy. But then again, I just like the game, I'm not a collector by any means. I have no idea why they're doing colorless the way they are now. It seems like it's just going to make things more complicated, because it's not a "new" color, but it's going to be a constant from now on (according to the MTG fb page). Idk, I like some of the new developments, but not all of them.


----------



## Asrial

It's by no means a complicated thing. Not more complicated than normal mana, at least. It just shows when a mana is colorless, and all mana producers in the future will use that symbol instead of generic numbers, which is used to show generic mana costs. I seriously don't get the unintuitiveness of needing to pay colorless mana for the colorless mana symbol cost. It's like not grasping a Llanowar elves are not playable unless you pay a green mana, which can also be used to play artifacts.

And Zendikar Expeditions is an homage to the treasure-thing they did back in orig. zendikar. Of course, they can't just put moxen and .... like that in the boosters again, and so they made some crazy promo cards instead. I think it's a good thing as well, but some people complaint about it. "Sorry we put a 100$ bill in your 4$ booster pack".


----------



## lelandbowman3

Asrial said:


> It's by no means a complicated thing. Not more complicated than normal mana, at least. It just shows when a mana is colorless, and all mana producers in the future will use that symbol instead of generic numbers, which is used to show generic mana costs. I seriously don't get the unintuitiveness of needing to pay colorless mana for the colorless mana symbol cost. It's like not grasping a Llanowar elves are not playable unless you pay a green mana, which can also be used to play artifacts.
> 
> And Zendikar Expeditions is an homage to the treasure-thing they did back in orig. zendikar. Of course, they can't just put moxen and .... like that in the boosters again, and so they made some crazy promo cards instead. I think it's a good thing as well, but some people complaint about it. "Sorry we put a 100$ bill in your 4$ booster pack".



I'm fairly new to MTG, so as a new-ish player, it seemed more complicated with the way it was explained on one of their (MTG) posts on fb, so thanks for clearing that up. Believe me, I enjoyed getting an extra 200 for one card, but as I said, I just like playing, and not even winning. I just like how interesting games can be.


----------



## gnoll

Ok I think I get it.

So basically the lands will be so rare it won't affect anything anyway, but it's more of a gimmick thing.

And the colorless mana, you're gonna be forced to pay some colorless costs with colorless mana instead of using any mana? Seems pretty lame, like, "Oh you wanted to pay your mana cost with your forests and llanowar elves? Nop, you have to use these new lands for that!" Seems like you're gonna be forced into playing cards you didn't necessarily want to play. Because why have more freedom of choice when you can have less..... sigh..... And if these new cards requiring colorless mana will be good enough to use in legacy then Wasteland will be even more necessary than it already is... Soo... how about another uncommon printing instead of those stupid expeditions, eh? I'm not made of money, you know...


----------



## Xaios

gnoll said:


> Ok I think I get it.
> 
> So basically the lands will be so rare it won't affect anything anyway, but it's more of a gimmick thing.
> 
> And the colorless mana, you're gonna be forced to pay some colorless costs with colorless mana instead of using any mana? Seems pretty lame, like, "Oh you wanted to pay your mana cost with your forests and llanowar elves? Nop, you have to use these new lands for that!" Seems like you're gonna be forced into playing cards you didn't necessarily want to play. Because why have more freedom of choice when you can have less..... sigh..... And if these new cards requiring colorless mana will be good enough to use in legacy then Wasteland will be even more necessary than it already is... Soo... how about another uncommon printing instead of those stupid expeditions, eh? I'm not made of money, you know...



Wow, salty. The chance of there being a card printed that's impactful in Legacy is negligible. First of all, on average, only about 1 card per set end up being Legacy-playable. Second, the colorless mechanic will be restricted to Eldrazi, you know, those giant, high cost creatures that, if they see play in Legacy at all, are only cheated into play with things like reanimator or sneak & show.

Not to mention, the point behind the Eldrazi, flavour-wise, is that they predate the existence of colored mana in the multiverse, and effectively transcend it. It's as much a flavour-based decision as it is a mechanical decision.


----------



## gnoll

Well I like building rogue decks in legacy lol, playable to the masses is not the same as playable to me


----------



## Xaios

Yaaaaaaay!


----------



## Slayer89

So, earlier this month I decided to put together a Modern deck again so I could play magic other than Legacy. I looked for a deck that I could enjoy the playstyle of, was powerful, and had been around for quite a while to try and dodge bans. I had my set of Splinter Twins in the mail to me when the ban was announced, haha. Just my luck.

https://youtu.be/hAXKOCfo90c


----------



## Vostre Roy

Double post


----------



## Vostre Roy

So I've began to play MTG again using my old Dragon deck and a new one (blue/artifact), don't know if either would fit in any format but I think that my blue/artifact would be banned in any as I'm using artifact lands lol. We just play for fun here at my mining camp, so here's what my Dragon deck looks like, might list the other one at some point. 

This deck is a real basic creature deck that revolve around lowering the casting cost of dragons and taking advantage of the "Amplify 3" hability of the Kilnmouth (usually cast it with 3 dragons in the hand, adding 9x +1/+1 counters). I've built it back when the Onslaught block was out and tried to get as many different dragons as possible back then, added a couple of new cards that I've got in boosters or bought here and there. Still have a couple of dragons that I don't use anymore

Creatures:

Kilnmouth Dragon x4
Dragon Whelp x4
Furnace Whelp x4
Dragonspeaker Shaman x4
Dragonlord's Servant x4
Shivan Dragon x2
Two Headed Dragon x4
Silent Arbiter x1
Clockwork Dragon x1
Thunderbreak Regent x1
Lightning Dragon x2
Crimson Hellkite x1
Dragon Tyrant x2
Thunder Dragon x1
Zyrilan of the Claw x1
Covetous Dragon x1

Enchantments/artifacts

Urza's Incubator x2
Cryptic Gateway x1
Form of the Dragon x1
Extraplanar Lense x1
Mana Flare x1
Planar Portal x1
Gratuitous Violence x1
Aether Vial x1

Lands:

Mountains x22


----------



## Xaios

Rejiggered my Sigarda EDH deck. While it's still an enchantress deck, I changed it so that the only auras provide tangible protection for Sigarda or a LARGE p/t boost for the mana cost. The rest of the list has been tuned as a sort of enchantment-based hate-bear deck.

Here's the list:

General (1):
- Sigarda, Host of Herons

Planeswalkers (1):
- Garruk, Primal Hunter

Creatures (19):
- Academy Rector
- Argothian Enchantress
- Containment Priest
- Dauntless Escort
- Dragonlord Dromoka
- Eidolon of Blossoms
- Eternal Witness
- Gaddock Teeg
- Grand Abolisher
- Hokori, Dust Drinker
- Kataki, War's Wage
- Kor Spiritdancer
- Linvala, Keeper of Silence
- Mesa Enchantress
- Sakura-Tribe Elder
- Sun Titan
- Thrun, the Last Troll
- Umbra Mystic
- Verduran Enchantress

Artifacts (5):
- Damping Matrix
- Null Rod
- Selesnya Signet
- Sol Ring
- Torpor Orb

Enchantments (22):
- Ancestral Mask
- Armored Ascension
- Aura of Silence
- Aura Shards
- City of Solitude
- Enchantress's Presence
- Ethereal Armor
- Flickerform
- Karmic Justice
- Mirari's Wake
- Privileged Position
- Rancor
- Rest in Peace
- Shield of the Oversoul
- Shielded by Faith
- Sigil of the Empty Throne
- Spirit Mantle
- Sterling Grove
- Stony Silence
- Suppression Field
- Sylvan Library
- Unquestioned Authority

Instants (5):
- Beast Within
- Enlightened Tutor
- Faith's Reward
- Path to Exile
- Unexpectedly Absent

Sorceries (11):
- Austere Command
- Creeping Renaissance
- Cultivate
- Idyllic Tutor
- Kodama's Reach
- Replenish
- Retether
- Rout
- Three Dreams
- Winds of Rath
- Wrath of God

Non-Basic Lands (24):
- Canopy Vista
- Cavern of Souls
- Command Tower
- Dust Bowl
- Emeria, the Sky Ruin
- Ghost Quarter
- Hall of the Bandit Lord
- High Market
- Krosan Verge
- Misty Rainforest
- Mosswort Bridge
- Myriad Landscape
- Oran-Rief, the Vastwood
- Petrified Field
- Savannah
- Serra's Sanctum
- Stirring Wildwood
- Strip Mine
- Sunpetal Grove
- Tectonic Edge
- Temple Garden
- Vesuva
- Windswept Heath
- Wooded Bastion

Basic Lands (12):
- Forest x 5
- Plains x 7


----------



## lelandbowman3

So, is anyone running the Shadows set? I got a fat pack, and I'm planning on using it for legacy, with some stuff from BfZ and the Ravnica block.
I like all 2-colors with black  But I also like g/r, maybe g/w.
I just like playing for fun and to make things interesting, so what are some ideas?


----------



## gnoll

I'm drafting the set tomorrow! Should be fun. I had a quick look at the cards earlier and it looked like a pretty good set to me. Best we've had in a while I'd say.


----------



## UnderTheSign

Right, so me and my gf are both somewhat experienced Hearthstone players and I've always claimed mtg folks are nerds, but my gf has recently developed an interest in mtg so I'll have to reconsider my opinion 
Anyway, we are both too poor/cba to blow a load of money on cards so she's been looking at those pre -made duel boxes or whatever they're called. Two decks made to go against each other. Ant opinions or insight on those here?


----------



## Xaios

They're fine decks for beginners who want to play some fun, casual matches. Another good place to start is the "Duel of the Planeswalkers" games which are available on PC, XB1 and PS4.


----------



## The Reverend

Haven't played since 7th Edition when I was a kid. Started playing again in January this year along with my roommates. My, the game has changed. 

I play MTGO as well. Almost exclusively, really. I'm SquareWhite there.


----------



## M3CHK1LLA

anyone exited for the pre-release this weekend?


----------



## Asrial

Not going, sadly. Set looks pretty dope from a limited POV, with power level trickling down the rarities. Lots of cubeability too in the new mechanics.

Sadly, I'm saving for homebrewing equipment and my leisure funds for the month went to Yooka Laylee.


----------



## lelandbowman3

So the new set looks pretty sick. Anyone got any good ideas for builds?


----------



## Xaios

Alas no. I haven't played Standard in a couple years at this point, as I decided to forego it while attending school.

EDH, on the other hand, well... I have 13 decks...


----------



## Mathemagician

So I've built Modern infect and modern Knightfall. And just do not feel like going to a game store to play with people I don't know. I'll hold on to them should I meet new nerd bros.


----------

