# jens kidman



## Cynic (Apr 3, 2010)

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My shitty attempt at his vocal style.


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## MaksMed (Apr 3, 2010)

please give me link to it, I can't play it from this


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## techcoreriffman (Apr 3, 2010)

You're a bit quiet. Also, it sounds a little bit too distorted, and it catches in your throat a little bit. Maybe work on your technique a little. Besides that,


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## Cynic (Apr 3, 2010)

techcoreriffman said:


> You're a bit quiet. Also, it sounds a little bit too distorted, and it catches in your throat a little bit. Maybe work on your technique a little. Besides that,



Well shit.

In another thread, the guys were telling me to not put the mic so close to my mouth. :\ And I was trying a different vocal style, so it was a bit throaty.


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## Arminius (Apr 3, 2010)

I'm pretty impressed, it sounds like you're too far from the mic or something, but as for your actual voice it's pretty great.


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## techcoreriffman (Apr 3, 2010)

A good medium so you don't overload the mic is to project more, and hold the mic just a wee bit closer to your mouth. It increses the volume without all the crackle of a mic that's too close to you.


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## TomAwesome (Apr 3, 2010)

I'm no vocalist, so someone feel free to correct me if I'm completely wrong, but it sounds to me like you're doing it completely backwards. It sounds like you're getting your growl at a low level from constricting your throat. I think Jens does it the opposite way by yelling with enough force and volume to drive his wide open voice like that without the throat constriction.


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## coreysMonster (Apr 3, 2010)

you're definately not moving enough air through air on this. are you keeping your throat relaxed and getting the power from your diaphragm?


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## AngelVivaldi (Apr 3, 2010)

Maybe these will help...


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## Cynic (Apr 3, 2010)

I know how to scream. This was just a different approach.



:/


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## sol niger 333 (Apr 3, 2010)

Too constricted. Jens projects the shit out of his vocal and the distortion comes naturally ie: he doesn't close his vocal chords to distort them. People who close their vocal chords to distort them are: Mark from Chimaira, the dude from Unearth among others. You can really hear the difference between false chord distortion and full voice distortion driven from the diaphragm. Thats why Jens rules.


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## sol niger 333 (Apr 3, 2010)

Pretend you are straining to take a constipated shit before you start screaming. Push the scream as loud as it can go until the distortion happens naturally from the force of your vocal projection. Dont try and "create" the distortion. Your neighbours will think you are insane but just belt it out. Fuck them


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## DrewsifStalin (Apr 4, 2010)

DON'T STEAL MY SONG TITLE!


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## TreWatson (Apr 4, 2010)

sol niger 333 said:


> Too constricted. Jens projects the shit out of his vocal and the distortion comes naturally ie: he doesn't close his vocal chords to distort them. People who close their vocal chords to distort them are: Mark from Chimaira, the dude from Unearth among others. You can really hear the difference between false chord distortion and full voice distortion driven from the diaphragm. Thats why Jens rules.


Trevor doesn't strain. after talking to him in person when he stopped through baltimore, we got pretty in-depth about vocals ( since I'm a screamer too) and a lot of his is working his body like a 2-part system. throat generates the noise, diaphragm generates force and propulsion.


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## Cynic (Apr 4, 2010)

DrewsifStalin said:


> DON'T STEAL MY SONG TITLE!



Sorry, it's just hilarious.


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## Lethe (Apr 4, 2010)

To me, the whole "dump" approach doesn't help at all. It makes it harder to get the sound I want because it's one more thing to think about. I think I'm already breathing right without going "there", so...yeah. What really did help me was the screaming tires approach seen in the Melissa Cross video. That's one way of getting into the terrain of distorted vocals. The more I think about screaming tires, the better I get at unlocking my real scream, and once I'm there I can just open up and put in all my emotions without putting any strain on my vocal chords. I found that whenever I get sore, I had not found my real technique before, and was trying to control the damage I do to my voice while still getting a somewhat acceptable sound.

It really helps to be in a loud environment where I don't have to worry about being too loud. Then I can really let go, and stop trying to control everything. That's when I sometimes find a new sound and realize: "Hey, this sounds cool, I'll keep doing it like this". And these rare moments, when everything connects and cool sound comes out, are always the ones where I can keep on for hours without getting sore. Hard to find that sound the next day though. 

We'll all get there eventually, if we keep doing it.


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## DrewsifStalin (Apr 5, 2010)

Also the Unearth vocalist sucks.


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## Gamba (Apr 5, 2010)

DrewsifStalin said:


> Also the Unearth vocalist sucks.


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## sol niger 333 (Apr 5, 2010)

TreKita said:


> Trevor doesn't strain. after talking to him in person when he stopped through baltimore, we got pretty in-depth about vocals ( since I'm a screamer too) and a lot of his is working his body like a 2-part system. throat generates the noise, diaphragm generates force and propulsion.



If you cant hear that the unearth guy has less power and projection in his scream when compared to someone like Jens Kidman you are not listening to what I'm listening to. How Jens screams and also how Maynard Keenan from tool screams compared to Mark from Chimaira or Trevor from Unearth or the guy from Parkway drive is totally different, the latter three are falsetto throat screamers that to me sound restricted and weak. If those last three guys didn't multi layer on their albums they would sound paper thin. Trevor is getting better but he is not in the ballpark of Mr Kidman by any means


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## Wookieslayer (Apr 5, 2010)

kidman is a master. he's matured his voice and kept it going all these years. fucken beastly.

mark hunter from chimaira is also a big influence on me and each album you can hear his progression. he is just so angry too lol. that kind of aggression helps out so much in screaming


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## TreWatson (Apr 5, 2010)

sol niger 333 said:


> If you cant hear that the unearth guy has less power and projection in his scream when compared to someone like Jens Kidman you are not listening to what I'm listening to. How Jens screams and also how Maynard Keenan from tool screams compared to Mark from Chimaira or Trevor from Unearth or the guy from Parkway drive is totally different, the latter three are falsetto throat screamers that to me sound restricted and weak. If those last three guys didn't multi layer on their albums they would sound paper thin. Trevor is getting better but he is not in the ballpark of Mr Kidman by any means



it's not falsetto or from the throat. it's a different technique.

Jens uses the same technique, the difference being the actual sound of their voice. jens kidman, mark from chimaira, Brandon butler from veil of maya, chris baretto from haunted shores, randy blythe from lamb of god, ALL USE THE SAME TECHNIQUE. the main difference is just how they sound. they sound how they sound, and that's all there is to it. if you like their screaming tone, GOOD! but seriously, it's all the same technique.


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## DrewsifStalin (Apr 5, 2010)

Vocal fry and false chord!


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## Semi-pro (Apr 5, 2010)

After hundreds of gigs, 3 albums and dozens of vocal lessons, I feel kinda confident to stick my nose in. Basically, the 3 most common sounds you hear in 99% metal vocals are these:


Chest voice: Your speech register. This one has the most balls and "body". Easy for low growls. You need quite a lot of practise to be able to "diguise" the note completely, leaving only distortion, which is amplified by the resonation (resonation is the KING! relaxation is crucial) of the various parts of your body (mostly chest, throat, mouth and the cavities in your skull). In fact, Randy Blythe's most common voice is created with the Chest voice. Also used by Chris Barnes, Corpsegrinder, David Vincent, Steve Tucker... damn, can't i come up with other than death metal guys?! Jens and Fredrik sometimes on C&C. Phil Anselmo uses the Chest voice nowadays quite a lot. Oh! Chuck Billy!!  Also tons of NYHC vocals. It just sounds so badass 


Falsetto: Easier to achieve distortion, but not nearly as "manly" or full as the Chest voice. Also much higher. Possible to fake low growl, when the note is disguised which doesn't sound as good as a good old Chest grunt, except on an album, cos of the mixing. 99% of all the black metal vox are made with falsetto. All the screaming on the SikTh albums are Falsetto.


Mixed voice: Mixing up both registers, getting the balls from Chest and all the trebly ear candy of Falsetto. The best option IMO. Also more difficult to achieve cos you need to 1) become at least mediocre in screaming/growling in both registers without too much strain. 2) find the feel of it and learn to mix the voice how you want it. The best (also best sounding!!) examples are everything by Devin Townsend and old Phil Anselmo stuff. I think Jamey Jasta is also having some kind of mix going on. Mark from Chimaira too. Also many other "modern HC vocalists".


(Unfortunately) the most common trend lately (i guess the thanks go to emo and screamo people) is the Falsetto scream with all its ugly variations that try to sound low. Yuck! Falsetto at its best is very close to the Mixed voice, but by no means the best option when going low. The you need to at least include some Chest voice too.

The reason why all the vocal stuff is so confusing is because a little strain is needed for creating the distortion. Too much is going to sound bad and restrict the "verbal agility", and too little isn't enought for distortion or just sounds too weak. These giudelines alone create a huge variety of different sounding guys. Let alone experience which'll broaden the spectrum. Most vocalists tend to strain a bit too much, but it usually corrects itself with experience. Most vocalists also have very varying seasons (better and worse days, more resonation, less resonation which leads to more straining), which can confuse the common opinions and views. All the registers alone also create a big variety of sounds so with one you'll get quite far. And the Flasetto and Mixed voice are sometimes difficult to distinguish from each other.


The OP is using the distorted Chest voice, just straining a little too much, which is normal in the beginning. Too much straining eliminates the benefits of the resonation (loud volume, strong and clear voice) Try to use less air and without too much of that "pushing" feeling. Try to imagine that you're holding your breath while doing that.

The constipation trick is quite good for identifying the distorted Chest voice, but when you use it, try to relax a bit I remember when i learned my Chest grunt. I was trying to sound like tough guy talking and simultaneoysly imagining that i'm pushing a big one, and after some while, i was already in studio and on a tour with a band.


For Falsetto (and hopefully later Mixed!), as stated before:
Vocal fry FTW!!! A good trick i once heard to identify that feeling/sound is to imagine that you're sleeping and someone wakes you up but you wanna sleep more so you'll answer with that "mmmmhhhh.." sound  Get a hold on that, refine it, make it loud and you'll be on your way to scream like hell!! 


Peace!


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## Cynic (Apr 5, 2010)

Semi-pro said:


> After hundreds of gigs, 3 albums and dozens of vocal lessons, I feel kinda confident to stick my nose in. Basically, the 3 most common sounds you hear in 99% metal vocals are these:
> 
> 
> Chest voice: Your speech register. This one has the most balls and "body". Easy for low growls. You need quite a lot of practise to be able to "diguise" the note completely, leaving only distortion, which is amplified by the resonation (resonation is the KING! relaxation is crucial) of the various parts of your body (mostly chest, throat, mouth and the cavities in your skull). In fact, Randy Blythe's most common voice is created with the Chest voice. Also used by Chris Barnes, Corpsegrinder, David Vincent, Steve Tucker... damn, can't i come up with other than death metal guys?! Jens and Fredrik sometimes on C&C. Phil Anselmo uses the Chest voice nowadays quite a lot. Oh! Chuck Billy!!  Also tons of NYHC vocals. It just sounds so badass
> ...



Is that according to the cover or video?

The cover was trying a different technique, and the video was how I normally scream.


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## Semi-pro (Apr 6, 2010)

Hey man!
I only checked the cover, so the comments are about that one. I'll to check the video when i get home (no speakers at work).

Cheers!


EDIT: I watched the video now. Sounds quite promising!
Seems like you've go the distorted Falsetto down quite decent. The lower stuff you're doing at first sounds like there's already a little bit of Mixing happening with the Falsetto and Chest voices (which sounds rational, cos judging from the earlier clip, you've already found out how to start working on the Chest voice). Sounds like it's mostly Falsetto though, which is totally ok. The high scream is Falsetto for sure. 

Now, i don't know how clearly you were trying to articulate, but you might wanna pay attention to that. Also pay attention to the "hylll" sounds you make before the "jjhaaaarrrghh" (god how i love writing these things ). Dry not to make it a habit. It might be easier to get the distortion going that way, i recommend getting rid of it (one tip is to just -not even say, but get the feel of saying one second before the phrase- "hygg", kinda like pushing the turd, and then "lock" the feeling and you'll be ready to snap on the full scream mode out of nowhere when it's time to make a sound).

If you're not feeling much straining anywhere, go on with what you're doing (talking about the last clip). If you do feel like you have to make too much of an effort to achieve a good sound, it's gonna be worth it if you spend some time re-learning everything with little less air and tension. When the vocal cords warm up, the voice will spark up much easier anyway, even if you sounded a bit weak while practising the "tender screaming", lol! You just have to trust on that Also try to inhale by getting your belly out instead of lifting the shoulders, it'll eventually help you getting more stamina and a stronger voice (more relaxed shoulder area will affect positively on the resonation). When recording or performing, the sound is what matters. BUT while practising, the physical comfortability is more important than how perfect or pissed you sound. The point is to learn the things you don't know yet, not just produce the sounds you already know. Get to know the undiscovered areas. Make all kinds of sounds but keep yourself away from too much strain. If your throat feels sore, give it a rest and/or hum gently with your mouth closed. A good rule of thumb is that if you can also make it quietly, you're not on the wrong track. If you can only be loud and nothing else, then there is too much strain for sure.

Hope this helps at least a bit!

_Keep on keepin' on! -Dimebag_


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## Cynic (Apr 6, 2010)

Semi-pro said:


> Hey man!
> I only checked the cover, so the comments are about that one. I'll to check the video when i get home (no speakers at work).
> 
> Cheers!
> ...



No words were actually used in the video. Just noises and syllables. 

Anyways, this is very helpful. I will definitely give this a go.

P.S. THIS IS WHY WE NEED A VOCAL SECTION!


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## leandroab (Apr 6, 2010)

DrewsifStalin said:


> DON'T STEAL MY SONG TITLE!




I knew I saw that somewhere else.

Jesus christ I never laughed so much in my life!


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