Zildjian L80 For Recording

Discussion in 'Drums & Percussion' started by jvms, Apr 28, 2017.

  1. jvms

    jvms SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    391
    Likes Received:
    28
    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2011
    Location:
    Rio Preto, SP, Brazil
    So, I was checking some Cribs videos on Spitfire Audio's Youtube channel and one of the producers there said he was using the L80 Cymbals from Zildjian while recording. I feel like it could be a great solution for recording cymbal bashers and eliminating cymbal bleed and overpowering on overheads and room mics, but from what I've seen in Youtube videos, they seem to be too quiet for recordings. Has anyone tried them for this application or just tried them in general?
     
  2. TedEH

    TedEH Cromulent

    Messages:
    3,812
    Likes Received:
    388
    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2007
    Location:
    Gatineau, Quebec
    I have some L80s and IMO they sound super weak if you try to mic them. Also, for "cymbal bashers", the ones I've got didn't take the abuse very well - the hats are in good shape, but the rest have cracked and broken apart with (what I would call) regular use.

    They're great for mesh-head practice kits, as an alternative to practicing on electronic kits, or maybe they make sense if you're going to trigger the cymbal sounds, but I wouldn't use them in place of real cymbals in any other situation.
     
  3. jvms

    jvms SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    391
    Likes Received:
    28
    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2011
    Location:
    Rio Preto, SP, Brazil
    Well, these are bad news. Could someone recomend me some cymbals that sound a bit quieter then? Looks like I won't be getting the L80s.
     
  4. TedEH

    TedEH Cromulent

    Messages:
    3,812
    Likes Received:
    388
    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2007
    Location:
    Gatineau, Quebec
    What's the intended use? If this is meant for recording (especially for any kind of rock or metal) I don't think you'll find "quiet" cymbals that still have the impact of what you'd normally use. There are other ways to negate cymbal bleed - creative mic placement, hitting them a little less hard, placing them farther away from everything, etc.
     
  5. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

    Messages:
    12,665
    Likes Received:
    946
    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2005
    Location:
    St. Johnsbury, VT USA
    What, more specifically, is the problem you are trying to solve?

    In my limited experience with drummers, very few of them are cool with any attempt to quiet them up at all. Drum tracks have a tendency to bleed all over the place, and drummers are quick to say "just snap my kick to the tempo track," as if their kick didn't bleed all over their other mics.

    Each drummer works in different ways, but there is usually some sort of solution. Maybe the next guy will consider recording kick, snare, cymbals, and toms in different takes, or maybe he'll let you replace cymbals with smaller ones (I've used two splashes in place of a hihat before, and it was quiet as hell, but still enough to keep the drummer happy), or maybe the bleed won't matter if he nails his parts in time, or else, if worse comes to worst, you can digitize the channels and replace his live tracks with trigger data, then sample his own drums from soundcheck, and sequence him like a damned drum machine. :lol:
     
  6. jvms

    jvms SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    391
    Likes Received:
    28
    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2011
    Location:
    Rio Preto, SP, Brazil
    I want the recording to sound as live and real as possible so no editing to the performances will be done. The purpose was just getting cymbals that won't bleed into the other mics and that won't overpower the rest of the kit on the overheads, so it could be easier to mix the whole thing.

    Getting quieter cymbals would be better because drummers don't seem to be able to control how hard they hit the damn cymbals and usually they sound better when being hit hard, so with quieter cymbals I wouldn't have to worry about them hitting too hard, I'd still get the better tone and I wouldn't get the bleed.
     
  7. TedEH

    TedEH Cromulent

    Messages:
    3,812
    Likes Received:
    388
    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2007
    Location:
    Gatineau, Quebec
    The L80s unfortunately aren't going to solve this problem. They'll be far too weak sounding next to real shells. Sounds like a case of needing to be creative with mic placement, and pull the cymbal stands farther back away from everything else. Either that or just embrace the bleed as part of the "live sound" of the kit.
     
  8. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

    Messages:
    12,665
    Likes Received:
    946
    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2005
    Location:
    St. Johnsbury, VT USA
    :agreed:

    If you are going for a raw, live sound, you could, in theory, just drop a mic overhead pointing down toward the snare, and then place another mic to the drummer's right (beyond the floor tom), facing him, and then tweak the relative positions to get a good sound.
     
  9. Ebony

    Ebony Mr Sunshine

    Messages:
    166
    Likes Received:
    28
    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2016
    Location:
    Fetsund, Norway
    Thin cymbals have a threshold of sound whereas thick cymbals just build volume forever and ever.

    You might consider purchasing hand hammered cymbals from one of the many vintage-styled turkish manufacturers out there. Names that comes to mind are Istanbul, Amedia, Bosphorous, Murat Diril etc etc.

    They are usually thin and made for lower volume styles, not to mention they're cheaper than the big four (sabian, meinl, paiste, zildijan).

    In general, any cymbal that is marketed as a jazz cymbal (hihats, crashes, rides, even chinas) are usually thin and hand hammered to bring out a more complex, low sound that opens up quickly, articulates and doesn't build up too much. If you want something seriously dead you might also check out the unlathed cymbals companies like these have to offer.

    But beware that thinner cymbals are more fragile, so if your drummer have no control over his power output be prepared for some breakage.

    And I should also point out that all this is relative as to what you consider loud.
    A cymbal, even a "quiet" one, is a super loud instrument.
     
  10. drumwerks

    drumwerks SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    1
    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2017
    I have to concur with Ebony. A set of Istanbuls will definitely help way more than those Zildjian L80s. I picked up a set of Agop Signatures and they were so different from anything Zildjian, Sabian, Paiste put out. Thin, hand-hammered - beautiful-sounding cymbals. They are dark sounding, but maybe some other Istanbuls are not - I don't know all of their products.

    Because they are thin, drummers should not hammer away on them though. My playing style has evolved since using them.

    Those Zildjian reduced-volume cymbals sound awful, the only exception being the hi-hat. I was pleasantly surprised how crisp and nice those were. But the crash, meh. The ride, dreadful.

    Get lighter, thinner cymbals - will definitely help.

    Get drummers to stop hammering away on the brass - will help way more!
     
  11. jvms

    jvms SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    391
    Likes Received:
    28
    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2011
    Location:
    Rio Preto, SP, Brazil
    Great recomendation! But will these dark sounding cymbals sound good and coherent in a rock/metal context?
     
  12. FIXXXER

    FIXXXER ¯\(°_o)/¯

    Messages:
    439
    Likes Received:
    97
    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2013
    Location:
    Germany
    did you think about getting some software to take care of "bleed"?
    thinking of debleeder or drumatom, drumatom especially seems to work quite good.

    Debleeder


    Tominator


    Drumatom
     

Share This Page