Zeitgeist Debunked : The source, the motive and the money

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Ryan-ZenGtr-, Jun 15, 2011.

  1. Ryan-ZenGtr-

    Ryan-ZenGtr- SS.org Regular

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    One of the sevenstring forum members posted a link to this website:

    Zeitgeist is a mind heist – venus project is a scam ?

    It provides a detailed back story of the creation of zeitgeist the movie, and the TZM (the zeitgeist movement).

    Having looked at the site, I think it's worthy of a thread as there are so many young people becoming confused by the films content.

    According to the website above;

    a self styled futurist named Jacque Fresco created a sustainable commune concept. Educating himself with various engineering and scientific knowledge he pledged to build a community housed in synthetic domes at an affordable price.

    In the 1960's Fresco sought to begin making his ideal a reality. Harnessing the resources of the flock he had gathered through his lectures, which took place in his home, he headed a group which bought some land to build said community. This was sold before work could be carried out and a new location was selected. This purchase made Fresco the sole owner, disenfranchising the original donors from any rights, which they had expected.

    Fresco and his movement, known as The Venus Project (TVP) funded the creation of an advertising documentary to deliver their concepts to a new audience. They outsourced production and so... we have Zeitgeist - The movie.

    Fresco's organisation are opposed to the dissemination of spiritual ideology and have dubbed Zeitgeist's overt spiritual content "verbal masturbation". They have since fallen out with the makers of the film as it failed their original intent, supposedly.



    Overall, an interesting website and I suggest it should be viewed by those affected by Zeitgeist. I hope you enjoy my concise version of events from the websites articles. Please visit the website linked to see a more detailed description of the events regarding this movie.


    Here is a link to a documentary on Jacques Freso's vision:
    Future By Design | Watch Free Documentary Online

    These links were provided by another member in another post, but I think this is a significant discussion as the movie has had a large audience.:wavey:
     
  2. Explorer

    Explorer He seldomly knows...

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    Ah, again the conspiracy nuts come out!

    I expecially like the "international bankers" thing. Why does everyone have to go for a Jewish conspiracy?

    And, as always, the assertion that not one Democrat or Libertarian raised a hand to stop the Bush administration from allowing 9/11 to happen. Not a single person broke ranks, before or after, out of guilt.

    As always, the need to expand conspiracies to prevent such a thing is a hallmark of tinfoil hat territory.
     
  3. -42-

    -42- Nothing to see here

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    It's a documentary, and a poor one at that. I fail to see how this is relevant to anything.
     
  4. Goatchrist

    Goatchrist Jebus

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    Nobody likes juice..


    Just kidding :) I don't mind them at all, people talking bout a jewish world conspiracy make really angry. -.-
     
  5. Demiurge

    Demiurge Intrepid Jackass

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    Well, harrumph- the idea that motives and special interests lie behind those docs and not a pure, unadulterated desire to tell people the capital-t Truth?! I never!

    In seriousness, I find it gratifyingly "meta" when an endeavor to reveal clandestine actions is in part supported by other clandestine actions.
     
  6. BrandonARC

    BrandonARC Banned

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    i usually watch those on car rides to put me to sleep haha.
     
  7. yingmin

    yingmin Parker über alles

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    [​IMG]
     
  8. -Nolly-

    -Nolly- SS.org Regular

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  9. Scar Symmetry

    Scar Symmetry Ex Whiny Bitch

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    The thing that bothers me is how the vast majority of people only have extreme views when it comes to conspiracy vs. non-conspiracy which I find to be very interesting. I actually see people who don't believe in conspiracies getting much more worked up about these kind of things than people who do, which I also find very interesting.

    Most conspiracy rebuttals are just as shallow and flimsy as the conspiracies they are trying to rebunk.
     
  10. mountainjam

    mountainjam SS.org Regular

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    ^well said dude.
     
  11. Ryan-ZenGtr-

    Ryan-ZenGtr- SS.org Regular

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    I just found it really interesting to search the critiques of the movie for an hour or so of leisure. Upon discovering the back story to a movie that has been seen by millions, I thought it might be entertaining for the community here. It came about after seeing some links here and a discussion about "Survey indicates: Perceived liberal bias benefits educator's careers" with Explorer.

    There are hardliners in any community and TZM are a particularly confused flock.

    The project that paid for it (from donated money) propose a high tech Pythagorian commune. Little real activity has taken place by either cult.... sorry... organisation. Since the split between the two groups (founders & the film makers), TZM has been looking for donations for it's own agenda, making it a seperate business enterprise.

    Like I said in the 1st post, there's a lot of kids who have been affected by TZM, blindly seeing prejudice in those the movie suggests are involved in a conspiracy (for Explorer, productions like this are confusing many young people, to their detriment).

    As musicians, we walk amongst many age groups and social situations as performers and have some motivation to be a positive role model. Many of the young people in our audiences have been exposed to this material and identifying their bias coming quickly is better than having to discuss it with them!

    They're out there! Dodge and evade!

    :rofl:

    If you're interested in a discussion when you come across these people, hopefully the link and others like it (there are many) will help to moderate the BS.

    Last links, I have nothing more to say on this topic, hopefully, forever!

    Founder of Venus project which commisioned Zeitgeist:
    Jacque Fresco - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    A brief history of Zeitgeist (includes Jordan Maxwell):
    Labarum » Blog Archive » A Brief History of Zeitgeist


    :nono:

    That's pretty rude considering I bothered to research and write about a modern plague that is affecting the minds of many people, including the young, for the benefit of the community.

    I made the thread to better prepare the community for the inevitable meeting with one of the passionate viewers of the film. They really need a gentle discussion. Hopefully, with this info, you can help them. . . Or predict the inevitable dispute and get out of the way, quick! :)
     
  12. The Reverend

    The Reverend GHETTO KING OF SWAG

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    My friends and I are the only people I've ever had to talk about the Zeitgeist thing. I don't generally meet people who've seen/know much of it, which is surprising considering the amount of hipsters and college students I'm around.
     
  13. Explorer

    Explorer He seldomly knows...

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    @Ryan - The "conspiracy nuts come out" comment was specifically about the film's two big premises: "international bankers," which has been used as a synonym for the vast Jewish conspiracy for quite a while (really!), and the 9/11 locked rank conspiracy, which has everyone on board for killing so many people in the towers, and no one breaking ranks for guilt's sake or political gain of any sort. It wasn't about you letting us know about the film, but about those who support those conspiracy theories.

    Sorry if that was unclear.

    I agree that confronting and challenging such bad logic is critical. That's why I normally go into detail about the unspoken premises behind various conspiracy theories, 9/11, cancer and AIDS/HIV cure suppression, etc. Once one gets someone thinking about what is necessary to support a crazy theory, everyone who is capable of insight into the crazy parts rethinks their logic.

    And, as I've noted, those who aren't just won't abandon the stuff. That's what makes others with normal insight label them as "tinfoil hat" type people.
     
  14. kung_fu

    kung_fu Vulcan Lute God

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    TBH i didn't really even know about it either.....until about a year ago when some sketchy dude at HMV handed me a dvd. He said "Check this out", I said "Cool...thanks" thinking he handed me his band's demo or something:lol:
     
  15. Scar Symmetry

    Scar Symmetry Ex Whiny Bitch

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    :lol:
     
  16. Explorer

    Explorer He seldomly knows...

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    I've been doing a little reading and searching, but have yet to find where mention of where the Venus Project was doing something which would remove its entitlement to 501(c)3 nonprofit status.

    The site in the first link is full of many claims, but there are certain conditions which have to be met in order to retain 501(c)3 status, including audits and submitting complete financial information.

    There appears to be a misunderstanding of what a nonprofit organization does. It's not that such an organization can't make money, or can't pay salaries. It's just that a nonprofit organization doesn't distribute its surplus funds to owners or shareholders, instead using them to help pursue its goals.

    Having been involved with nonprofits more than once, I know there is a difference between what the popular notion is and the reality. The American Red Cross, for example, doesn't pay shareholders, and yet they routinely make money... which is then plowed back into fulfilling their mission statement. They even pay their employees.

    I'm not saying that whoever made that film isn't wearing a tinfoil hat, but it is interesting that the people behind the linked website don't really make a good case regarding their charges.

    Having been involved in asking for revocation of one group's 501(c)3 status, I know that it can be done.

    The Zeitgeist vid was crazy, and so was that counter-website. Two crazies don't make a sane, though.

    ----

    In any case, unless there are new developments, I have no further interest in this group. I just thought it was worth commenting on what I found... and what I didn't.
     
  17. flint757

    flint757 SS.org Regular

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    I have to say the worst part about zeitgeist is having to talk to people about it. Irrelevant to their conspiracy ideas (I honestly couldn't care about their idea's conspiracy wise because it is only for propaganda purposes to sway peoples support) I'm not 100% convinced a resource economy is a good idea and when I try and convey my point of view with followers and/or debunkers I end up getting verbally assaulted by a bunch of high school/college idiots. One of my good friends who supports this movement wholeheartedly does so because he is a broke ass mofo and this idea would allow him to have what ever he wants. I think people don't consider the fact that rules and laws would become more prevalent in a society of this nature leading most likely IMO to a loss of free will.

    Also, this quote sums up what I try and tell my friends and people who support TMZ, but of course to no avail "I think it's all a shame, however, because getting all of those people together could have done something, could have lead to actual success in some way, but it's not even close to that. This hasn't stopped members from discussing the transition to the Resource Based Economy, despite the fact they're discussing step 10,000 when they haven't even reached step 1 and don't seem to want to."
     
  18. Daggorath

    Daggorath -.-

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    Couldn't agree more. It's healthy to question, when done honestly. It's when the facts are blurred into fiction that it becomes a problem. The biggest strength of the modern conspiracy film is that it makes people think, and have to delve further into the facts to see what is actually real. For this reason alone, I am glad works like Zeitgeist exist.

    Extreme views in general are dangerous, but not necessarily always wrong.
     
  19. Scar Symmetry

    Scar Symmetry Ex Whiny Bitch

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    :agreed:

     

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