Your weekly Whitehouse update

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by GuitaristOfHell, Aug 18, 2013.

  1. Alberto7

    Alberto7 ΩGJ :3

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    I love this post almost as much as I love my mom.
    My uncle (in Quebec) had open-heart surgery some 7 years or so ago to replace a heart valve. That carries with it tons and tons of medications that he will have to take for the rest of his life. Last year, he had a stroke, which was followed by a severe infection in the brain. He was in the hospital for some 4 months, and has had sequels from that. Double the amount of medications he needs to take now. That could have translated into hundreds of thousands of dollars, which would have indebted his ass to the point of bankruptcy, yet he hasn't had to pay a single penny for all of that. To tell you the truth, I am not well versed in a lot of political shenanigans and my knowledge is somewhat limited, so perhaps I'm wrong on some level, but a good universal healthcare system seems to me about as basic a need as having reliable food availability.
     
  2. narad

    narad SS.org Regular

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    You're bringing pictures to a word fight.
     
  3. mcd

    mcd stuff and thangs

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    pictures are worth a thousand words....so looks like he's winning
     
  4. narad

    narad SS.org Regular

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    If an argument's worth was determined by the number of words used, and not the value of the ideas they express, then our greatest orators would be teenage girls and auctioneers.

    More to the point:

    [​IMG]
     
  5. mcd

    mcd stuff and thangs

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    Sometimes I'd rather listen to mind numbing teenage girls talk, than our politicians.

    More on Topic: I would rather not pay for someone else's health care, Im also not fond of about 100k more things that my taxes go to. Healthcare is def. the lesser evil. The government already takes 28% from my paycheck every year, so lets fix that first.
     
  6. BlindingLight7

    BlindingLight7 Needs moar Gear.....

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    Pictures are the only way we communicate with the libtards.
     
  7. wannabguitarist

    wannabguitarist Contributor

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    As a fellow Republican (according to the voter registry and the party that signs my paycheck...) wanna propose a solution? Continuing to come off as the stupid party hasn't really helped us much in the last decade :lol:
     
  8. Grand Moff Tim

    Grand Moff Tim Some call me... Tim

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    Weren't you (aren't you?) in the military? People were paying for your healthcare then, and you and everyone else continues to pay for servicemembers' healthcare now. Unless that isn't paid for with tax dollars, I guess. I can confess to not being an expert on the subject.
     
  9. mcd

    mcd stuff and thangs

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    Yes, that was a perk of the job. Just like the current company I work for pays a pretty good package as well. The US military, and all Gov. Employees have some form of health care, it's a perk of the job. I have no problem with that whatsoever, I have a problem paying for the morbidly obese jobless leeches I see everyday.
     
  10. estabon37

    estabon37 Melodica Attack!

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    First off, the following is not a specific attack against you, mcd. I'm just using your quote as a springboard, so I hope you don't mistranslate this a personal attack. With that said ...

    My government was taking 33% from my pay in my primary job, and I think 40% from my second job for the 6 years I was working both of them (for that first job I was working for a government department). So, what did that money go towards?

    For thirteen of the first eighteen years of my life it provided one of the world's best educations through some of the world's best trained and paid teachers in facilities that were for their time considered pretty damn awesome by world standards, absolutely free in a standard small-town state school. Everybody in this country got that education and continues to receive it. Speaking of education, three years ago I decided to become a high school teacher, as I figured it would be a better job than doing what I was doing, though it also meant quitting my job and moving to the city. I've been on government study benefits for 2.5 years now, which is at best $200 a week, less money than standard unemployment benefits, and I didn't have to jump through hoops to get that money, I just had to say to the unemployment office: "Hey, I'm quitting my jobs and becoming a university student now. Can I have money?", to which they replied: "Sure, sign here.".

    As a student I get half price public transport. I get concessions on bills. Oh, and once I hit retirement age (a long way off), I get those same concessions, fortnightly government money, and a fair chunk of the money they took from me in the first place because some of it from every payslip goes to a superannuation fund that you are only entitled to access once you hit retirement age. Most folks in this country should be able to retire with at least $100,000, without really having to have gone out of their way to put that money aside.

    It sucks for me that unlike people who pay little tax, I can't afford any music gear right now, mostly because of the high taxes we pay on consumer goods, but the education, health care, unemployment and retirement benefits that are my right as a taxpaying citizen of this country make it worth only having two really good guitars (and quite a few shitty ones - yay!). I'm assuming this is the sort of thing that people who earn a lot of money but pay little tax do with their money. If they don't like paying for "other people's health care", as in, "using their good fortune and wealth to assist their fellow humans in living enjoyable, healthy lives", then all that's left to do with money is either acquire stuff, or to invest in ways that will make them even more money that they can use to not help anybody.

    NOTE: I'm not saying any tax system is perfect, and I'm sure as hell not targeting MCD specifically. But there's a reason the US has a strangely small middle class, and a disgustingly huge amount of people living below the poverty line: lack of money in education and health care. And I mean actual health care, not inflated costs thanks to insurance companies.
     
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  11. mcd

    mcd stuff and thangs

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    Totally hate you now for attacking me *joke*

    My biggest problem with social programs in the US, is we are too dependent on them. We have fostered a government dependency in our culture. Personally I don't feel the government is responsible for wether or not I prepare for retirement, or have healthcare. You're also correct about our middle-class, I am currently in that bracket and get taxed crazy up and down. I can't afford to send my money to swiss banks, so I end up paying almost 25k a year in taxes alone to the fed. I also have mouths other than mine to feed, and don't struggle with that at all, despite uncle sam's attempts to make that so.

    In a nutshell, I'd rather take care of myself and my own. The US government can't run a McDonalds properly, why should I allow them to run my life? And furthermore! Why would anyone not want to make their own way? (I speak of our lazy fat nation only)
     
  12. The Atomic Ass

    The Atomic Ass Redefining Sound

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    The following requires a knowledge of my stance on health insurance: I'm against it. Not just against government health insurance, but ALL health insurance. Now the following might make just a touch more sense.

    Setting aside physical injuries, hasn't anyone that is a proponent of health insurance, of any type, sat down and thought, "why do we need healthCARE in the first place?"

    I cogitate that diabetes, cancer, arthritis, (insert litany of now common diseases here), are not a part of the human condition. I propose that it would be more useful to focus efforts towards determining the causative factors, and mitigating or eliminating them from the human environment.
     
  13. Grand Moff Tim

    Grand Moff Tim Some call me... Tim

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    Yeah, it'd be nice if there was no such thing as disease, but even if we do eventually find a way to cure every disease on Earth, how about we keep health care around until we do, just in case?

    Why? Because it kinda defeats your argument? People need health care for unexpected injuries just as much as they do for disease. But hey, as long as we're fantisizing here, maybe scientists can find a way to make us all impervious to disease and injury.
     
  14. narad

    narad SS.org Regular

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    Well, cancer is as much a part of the human condition as is...radiation? The sun? The human condition, as a product of evolutionary design, doesn't really do a great job at guaranteeing that your post-peak-reproductive years are devoid of such illnesses.

    Even mitigating such things, not all healthcare costs are applied to these sorts of chronic diseases. What about physical injury? Genetic diseases and predispositions? Viral infection? Healthcare will always be a necessity as long as we're conscious bags of meat, or until we just start throwing the sick and injured off mountainsides. I'd rather just pay higher taxes.

    Personally I'm against a lot of social programs, as I've observed a lot of abuse of our welfare system. Not by "morbidly obese jobless leeches", but by people like the daughter-in-law of a Fortune 500 CEO who took 18 months of welfare after working poorly for 2 months, refused to work for less than $20/hr - there were offers, and used the money to renovate her kitchen and buy an Escalade. There's many less egregious abuses, but I become aware of them up here all the time, where weather makes a lot of work seasonal. I don't want my money to fund other people's toys, but I would gladly give up all of mine if was the only way to fund treatment to save someone's life. Healthcare for everyone? That's just a tenet of a civilized country IMO.
     
  15. mcd

    mcd stuff and thangs

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    This is a very isolated situation as far as I know.

    On topic, I've been thinking about socialized health care and came to one conclusion I'd be happy with. I personally do not want socialized health care, and if I was able to elect not to pay into, or receive benefits of, I'd be fine with that. I personally feel the welfare of strangers should not be anyone's concern, unless they make it their concern. If you're working uninsured, or with subpar insurance I am all for you receiving the benefits. I just prefer it as a pay to play benefit.
     
  16. Alberto7

    Alberto7 ΩGJ :3

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    ^ That actually seems to me like a mere discrepancy between our most basic sets of morals (yours vs narad's, Tim's, and mine), really, and not a flaw in rationale. You actually make perfect sense (or at least I think you do), given your starting point, and so do narad and Tim (and myself for that matter, I believe).
     
  17. mcd

    mcd stuff and thangs

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    I believe or morals align more often than not, at least thats what i find when talking to varying opinions. The only real discrepancy is usually mine are more focused. I am compassionate, but not overly so. I do feel a great deal of empathy for the less fortunate, having been raised well below the poverty line. I just prefer people take care of themselves in the broad scheme of things. Does that mean I won't help a stranger? Absolutely, I would. I just like to choose who my compassion is directed at is all. Does that make me bad? Maybe, but doesn't bother me.
     
  18. estabon37

    estabon37 Melodica Attack!

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    It's understandable, more often than not I behave like a douchestick. :lol:

    I don't have a huge knowledge of social programs in the US, so it's really difficult for me know how far reaching or effective they are. The reason the Australian government decided to get in on the Superannuation thing is because people weren't saving up for retirement at all here, knowing that government benefits awaited them at the end of the working lives. Now, my knowledge even on the Australian Superannuation system is pretty bad, but essentially instead of taxing us more to be able to pay us pensions later, we're forced to put a percentage of our income aside into a fund so that even if we need government benefits when we retire, we have access to a (hopefully) large fund of our own making that should be enough to pay off leftover debts and fund the following decade or two of relaxation. So in this case, it's not dependency, it's collecting on what you've earned, what you've contributed towards society. I don't know the circumstances of how it was set up, and importantly, Australia has less than one tenth of America's population, so setting up sweeping programs like that isn't too tricky. As to whether or not the US government could do something comparable:

    That's probably depressingly accurate. The murky waters where politics, economics and social policy meet are filled with horrible, unrecognisable creatures that prey on good intentions. If I had anything more than wishful thinking to back my ideology I'd throw it into the mix.

    Oh, and on this point:

    No need to be bothered. You seem like a bit of a legend to me. :yesway:
     
  19. Alberto7

    Alberto7 ΩGJ :3

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    Oh, don't misunderstand me. I do not think any less of you for having a different set of values than I do. I meant no offense, :D and that certainly doesn't make you a bad person in my eyes. You've expressed yourself well, and I think that summarizes your viewpoints on the matter for me. :yesway: Good reasons are all I need.

    (I'd make a terrible politician, jeez :lol:)
     
  20. mcd

    mcd stuff and thangs

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    Not my take away at all bro, no worries
     

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