You won't discriminate against gays! Then my sponsored child can starve!

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Explorer, Apr 22, 2014.

  1. Explorer

    Explorer He seldomly knows...

    Messages:
    6,394
    Likes Received:
    971
    Joined:
    May 23, 2009
    Location:
    Formerly from Cucaramacatacatirimilcote...
    World Vision Reverses Decision To Hire Christians... | Christianity Today

    World Vision, Gay Marriage and Taking a Stand on the Backs of Starving Children | Kristen Howerton

    So, World Vision decided that they wouldn't discriminate against same-sex marriage benefits.

    The Christian thing to do was apparently to encourage those who embrace Jesus' message of love to no longer sponsor children who desperately need food and help. That will teach those who embrace Jesus' message of love, of treating others with the love and acceptance we want for ourselves.

    World Vision had to reverse embracing that message, in order to accommodate those who think that message was clownish, and to continue having money to take care of those kids, something which the organization apparently cares about more than the contributors.

    WWJD? Well, he did say, Suffer the little children. (I thought the context was different, but now we know.)

    ----

    I've been horrified in the past when religious points of view were placed ahead of national security (two friends, Arabic language specialists, were discharged when we were in Afghanistan because it was more important to keep gays out of the military than to worry about national security, the Roman Catholic Council of Bishops made a deal with the Tea Party to shut down the NSA and other parts of the government, in order to stop Obamacare from paying for reproductive care).

    But really, this is just crapulent.
     
    ferret, Edika, ElRay and 1 other person like this.
  2. estabon37

    estabon37 Melodica Attack!

    Messages:
    628
    Likes Received:
    67
    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2008
    Location:
    Fury Lane (it's quieter than Fury Road)
    Here's three consecutive paragraphs from the second link Explorer provided:

    So, who's going to break the news to the Christians who are in same-sex relationships who might have been interested in working for an organisation that helps children that the opinions of outsiders outweighs any amount of good they could have done? Because there's one thing I can pretty much guarantee of anybody who has the gall to look a good person who wants to help in the eye and tell them that they are not fit to do good things for people who are suffering: that person who is calling the shots is an arsehole.


    Oh, and anybody who withdrew financial support for the program on the back of this decision is also an arsehole. Here's my favourite bit:

    If the first is non-negotiable, then financial support should never have been withdrawn by anybody, and evangelical leaders who called on people to withdraw support are clearly shitty Christians as a result. If the second is true, and the church is 'fractured', proving that you're willing to attack charitable organisations isn't likely to win people over to your side of the fracture. And if the third point is really suggesting that a) the gospel requires a boost in credibility, and b) 'the' church (and my understanding of evangelical churches is that they are many and varied) also requires a boost in credibility, how does denying children access to charity over an unrelated moral point of contention lend itself to increased credibility?

    Here's an idea for anybody who donates to World Vision: instead of allowing your donation money to rest in the hands of people who take orders from those who are willing to let children starve, find a secular organisation that does equally good work and doesn't take orders from fools. Here's one:

    Save the Children

    I donated through this organisation for years, and as soon as I have an income again, I'll be back on board.
     
  3. Necris

    Necris Bonitis.

    Messages:
    4,228
    Likes Received:
    462
    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2009
    Location:
    Somewhere in New York
    There are many comments on the christianity today article that evoke a range of negative emotions in me but this one right here is the one that really showed me just how sick these people really are:

    It's not good enough that the decision was reversed and the bible-endorsed discrimination will continue, no, it's not good enough because the reversal must have been made to protect the bottom line rather than due to a desire for strict adherence to the bible; and that just won't do.

    That bottom line is feeding children; but in the perspective of these people the Bible and the donors beliefs trump the welfare of a child; and the original decision made this group (and the children it serves) no-longer worthy of their money.

    They'll severely hinder the efforts of an organization that is actually doing good work just to prove a point and then posture as though they are the ones who are being wronged.

    People like the man I quoted are scum who can fuck off and die.

    It does make me feel better, however, to remember that Secular organizations generally don't have to deal with this kind of bullshit and that my money (and anyone elses) can do just as much good with them.
     
  4. The Reverend

    The Reverend GHETTO KING OF SWAG

    Messages:
    3,459
    Likes Received:
    431
    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2010
    Location:
    Arlington, TX
    Disgusting. Just disgusting. To echo esteban, anyone who will prevent gay folk from doing a kindly, generous thing because it offends the moral and spiritual sensibilities of other, unrelated people is a bitch. And not just a bitch, a f--king devil bitch.

    As far as World Vision goes, are they helping the kids because they need help, or are they helping the kids because they're obeying the word of God? Are they initially moved by compassion, or do they develop it after they begin their good works? For the people who donate to World Vision, what is their agenda? Do they donate to help people? If so, why without that help because the middleman and you have a point of contention?
     
  5. vilk

    vilk Very Regular

    Messages:
    4,597
    Likes Received:
    581
    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2013
    Location:
    Chicago
    Surprised by Christianity inspired bigotry that acts against welfare? Not me! :cool:
     
  6. rifftrauma

    rifftrauma Trapped in time...

    Messages:
    1,399
    Likes Received:
    502
    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2011
    Location:
    Virginia
  7. Edika

    Edika SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    3,383
    Likes Received:
    378
    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2010
    Location:
    Londonderry, N.Ireland, UK
    I can't say I am surprised, especially by Evangelists as they seem to be the nuttier/fundamentalist of the Christian sects. The only way to enforce their opinion would be to drop the sponsorships. I don't know whether they would actually go through with that if WV refused to change once more their policy but if they did, they would be true to their beliefs. Fundamentalists/fanatics of any religion or ideology will defend their beliefs at the cost of the lives of others and their own even and some rules will be higher in hierarchy than others depending on the interpretation of the laws and the general direction of the sect.
    Not that modern Christians would go that far to use violence nowadays (mostly), they're just being dicks to what any rational people might think.
     
  8. Explorer

    Explorer He seldomly knows...

    Messages:
    6,394
    Likes Received:
    971
    Joined:
    May 23, 2009
    Location:
    Formerly from Cucaramacatacatirimilcote...
    Regarding the modern Christian violence thing, remember the topic here on SS.org about the European right-wing Christian gunman who killed all those kids at a school? The topic title reflected the reality, and I seem to remember some getting their undies in a bunch that the person was described as such, even though it was true.

    Do I also remember Pat Robertson calling for the assassination of a foreign leader?

    Although most Christians feel that the Mormon belief that we are equal to God, and can become like him, to put them outside the tent of Christianity, I'll point out that however you classify them, Orson Scott Card (Mormon and author of Ender's Game) has stated clearly that it is the duty of all real Americans to take up arms and fight the government if same-sex marriage is made legal.

    Of course, there's the whole "kill the abortion doctors" movement.

    Terrifying fundamentalist tendency towards violence is terrifying.
     
  9. The Reverend

    The Reverend GHETTO KING OF SWAG

    Messages:
    3,459
    Likes Received:
    431
    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2010
    Location:
    Arlington, TX
    I think the danger of any belief system, religious or otherwise, that creates an us versus them paradigm is that it creates violence. I think the tendency of the human brain to *want* those distinctions needs to be actively worked against. No idea how to do that, but I think it's clear that exclusive mindsets are more counterproductive to the benefit of mankind than inclusive ones.
     
  10. Explorer

    Explorer He seldomly knows...

    Messages:
    6,394
    Likes Received:
    971
    Joined:
    May 23, 2009
    Location:
    Formerly from Cucaramacatacatirimilcote...
    Although such primate politics might not help the entirety of humankind, until recently such thinking does enhance the survival of small troops of humans/primates.

    It's only when the communities get larger that there are consequences for those small groups.

    Given that it's part of our nature, deep in our code, and not learned behavior, if one group learns to overcome those tendencies, what happens if the other groups don't have the same aim?

    I'm glad I live in a place where the societal framework helps constrain the craziness....
     
  11. The Reverend

    The Reverend GHETTO KING OF SWAG

    Messages:
    3,459
    Likes Received:
    431
    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2010
    Location:
    Arlington, TX
    *constrains the craziness to a point. I think one needs only look at current events en masse to see a radical change in pace of line-drawing. Arguments (or pity parties) about privilege, politics, and everything else are dividing us into so many small factions that increasingly less and less work towards any kind of future is being done.

    Furthermore, who says that all opinions, worldviews, perspectives, etc are created equally? I dislike the world's focus on egalitarianism. Rational, productive, and ultimately forward-looking viewpoints deserve much more thought and respectful, yet diligent inquiry than do those of assholes and weirdoes. If a group of people, say Texans, don't want to belong to a world that focuses on inclusivity and overcoming the tribalism inherent to the human brain, let them do their own thing. In your example, the inclusive group would extend as many privileges and rights as they give themselves to the outliers, and not think of them adversaries, regardless of how they in turn are treated.

    Creating a more humanistic society lessens the impact of fundamentalism. It's hard to start killing people (or denying aid) when your primary motivation is the well-being of mankind at large. It's fostering that kind of attitude that could start the way towards a mildly less f--ked up world.
     
  12. Explorer

    Explorer He seldomly knows...

    Messages:
    6,394
    Likes Received:
    971
    Joined:
    May 23, 2009
    Location:
    Formerly from Cucaramacatacatirimilcote...
    I agree, and in one topic of another, I noted that the US is making strides forward in terms of divorcing "having a moral compass" with "religion as a necessary basis for treating others well."

    There will always be the problem of the barbarians at the gate, or even the barbarians already *inside* your gate.

    Hmmm. I think I have a deeper question, a bit off-topic from this one.
     
  13. Andromalia

    Andromalia Pardon my french

    Messages:
    6,792
    Likes Received:
    678
    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2009
    Location:
    Paris, France
    I have a bit of a problem with christian fundamentalist: how can you claim being a christian and be right wing ?
    Although I was educated in the roman catholic church belief, I ended up being a non believer* but I still hold to some of the values I ws thaught: love, helping people, fraternity and sharing. Right wing is about "me, me, me, me and me" and screwing people weaker than you. Never got it, really. And it's nothing specific to the US either, those in europe are the exact same when confronted to gay and women rights.

    *Actually, I do not deny the existence of God, I just don't believe in it. It is still possible he exists, but if a god wants to judge me or whatever, either he's good and acting the way I do should more or less be ok, or he's an asshole and it doesn't matter anyway. In the meantime, I'll just live my life and don't feel the need to participate in any cult. A God requiring it wouldn't be good anyway.
     

Share This Page