Why are you mad right now?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Faine, Apr 8, 2012.

  1. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    Back in 2011-2013, I fought really hard at work to get funding for a new product, based on a principle that I came up with by myself. I explained it to my boss the simplest way possible, and when he rejected it, I explained it to his boss and then to that guy's boss. The higher up the ladder, the more confident these guys were that the concept wouldn't work.

    Enter 2017, and now the exact same concept is being developed by a consultant hired by one of the very same higher-ups who told me that the concept would never work. I've clashed with that particular guy a dozen times before, and this just seems like the final straw, now that he's trying to leech credit for my idea and doesn't even have the decency to involve me in any way in the grunt work to get it done, hiring a really expensive outside consulting firm to do something for which I laid the groundwork while I was studying at the university.
     
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  2. Daeniel

    Daeniel 7string n00b!

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    Would honestly like to punch my GF right now, she is acting like a total bi**h in the last months. Feeling like all the efforts I put into our relationship (we were living 800km away, now she moved to the UK to 1300km away) were just a waste of time. F*ck her.
     
  3. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    Might be best to mull it over for 24 hours, then come to the table with a carrot and a stick. There may be creative ways to work things out, and if not, then you might need to consider how much the relationship is really worth to the both of you - there's no sense in suffering for nothing.
     
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  4. Daeniel

    Daeniel 7string n00b!

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    Wise words. But the communication is not easy as we have seen each other three times in the past three months, and I already brought up the issue several times. I could not travel for a while as I got a new apartment, but her justification for moving from Italy to the UK was that she would have had more freedom of movement. Quite the opposite - connections are quite shit*y, expensive even if supposed to be low cost, and she does not prioritize even if she is the one that took some fuc*ed-up decisions. Well, let us see - thanks for listening to me venting!
     
  5. High Plains Drifter

    High Plains Drifter SS.org Regular

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    My girl has been with this company for over 4 years now... training exclusively for a management position for the past 2 years. She has consistently brought to the table efficiency, dedication, enthusiasm, professionalism, ethics, an ability and willingness to adapt, to learn, to take initiative, to maintain open availability, to change directions when needed, etc, etc... continually proving to them, her abilities and devotion to the company.

    ... Simply to find out yesterday that they are bringing in someone outside of the company to fill the position that she had been training for and assured of for so long. Now she's back to where she was 2 years ago after pouring her mind, muscle, heart, soul, sweat, and tears into this company. They strung her along and ultimately never even gave her the chance to prove herself as part of their management team. She is absolutely crushed right now and as much as I tend to look at things openly and critique her shortcomings, I have to say that she deserved better than this. I hurt so bad for her right now and am completely bitter towards the couple of heartless corporate fucks that have made this decision and subsequently taken all of this away from her.
     
  6. MFB

    MFB ExBendable

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    Any companies around that do the same thing with a need for that position? I'd be giving the ol' bird and taking my work ethic to the competition after 2 years of stringing along.
     
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  7. PunkBillCarson

    PunkBillCarson SS.org Regular

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    This isn't something making me mad, it's just a small irritant. Actually at this point, it's an irrational hatred. Will people please learn to use the word "ironically" correctly? Not every fucking weird turn of events is ironic.
     
  8. High Plains Drifter

    High Plains Drifter SS.org Regular

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    I agree, MFB. I've always tried to stress to her that these people aren't here to "be your friend"... that they exist to make a profit and to provide a service... nothing more/ nothing less. But with all of the effort that she's put into what was supposed to be her career, it's understandable that she feels genuinely jaded now. I've discussed with her, other opportunities that exist/ may exist here where we live and that she may very well have to focus her strength and commitment to another company entirely. This is one of those times that she is realizing how unfair things can be. It's a great deal for her to process atm so I've advised her to not act upon her emotions and to continue to retain her composure and professionalism but that she also possesses the right to ultimately share with them, her complete disgust and disagreement with the way that they have handled this whole thing. There were actually several higher-ups that had her back and highly recommended her for the position but corporate I guess, has other plans. We'll see. Thank you, man.
     
  9. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    I saw Tony Stark lick a nail once. I asked him why he was doing that, and he said "It's irony."
     
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  10. Mathemagician

    Mathemagician SS.org Regular

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    Just some external/unbiased thoughts:

    1) They do not “fear” her leaving. She may come off like a “team player/lifer” with no ambition to go wherever the money is highest. It’s a bullshit “go to” answer. Don’t fight this. It’s a waste of energy better spent looking for new employment.

    2) It’s a business decision as far as they’re concerned, since they are not concerned with her leaving, they “left her in her current role where she fits best” and hired someone else.

    3) She needs to leave. Update the resume. Update linked in. Prepare for interviews by practicing being confident in bragging about her accomplishments/improvements to the firm. #’s and %’s are king. Number of people managed, number of projects/results of those successful projects.

    4) Just be here for her. Keep doing what you’re doing in that regard.

    5) She needs to leave. They WILL ask her to start teaching the new hire how things work/etc. she needs to leave before that happens. They will make her life miserable whether she helps or not.

    6) They’ll try to guilt trip her when she puts in her notice. Prepare for that “we’ve put so much time into you, we’re hoping for a better opportunity for you, or the classic “we’ll XYZ JUST opened up”. They may offer a modest 3-10% raise to keep her. She’ll be let go within a year for “poor performance” after training up others in her responsibilities.

    7) There is nothing that can/will be done by anyone, so don’t bother asking for a “meeting” or an opportunity to “express her feelings”. That tree exists for people to bark up because they’re afraid to leave the firm. She needs to find new work.


    It’s not personal, she just needs to find a new employer to move her career forward.
     
  11. TedEH

    TedEH Cromulent

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    This reminds me of a sort of catch-22 in employment and customer service that I was thinking/discussing about recently. There's a conflict in that when someone is good at their job (in customer service in particular), promoting them removes them from the place that they're being efficient at, which reduces the quality of work happening at that level.

    I've worked in a bunch of call centers before and it always worked this way- the more you promote your best agents, the worse the quality of the center is overall, because you've taken the talented people out of the pool available for the front lines. You need to have people who are good at what they do at the lowest ranks, which unfortunately means not promoting people despite being good at their jobs. That, of course, leaves you with talented people at the bottom of the pile who feel like they aren't appreciated/rewarded for their work, so they either stop putting in the effort or leave.

    I think that having a bit of an understanding of the challenges of customer service in large volumes leaves me hating it that much more on some level. It's terrible for the customer, it's terrible for the agents- large-volume customer service just strikes me as a losing situation for everyone.
     
  12. PunkBillCarson

    PunkBillCarson SS.org Regular

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    Thing is, it shouldn't be a catch 22. No one should be punished and held back just because they're good at their jobs. That's like at my job whenever a person puts in a bid for another job, there's been times when their paperwork just magically "disappears." The way it needs to be looked at is: a.) this person won't be around forever anyways and we can't keep them from quitting or dying b.) we trained them to do the job, we can find another person to do the job.
     
  13. TedEH

    TedEH Cromulent

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    Ideally, sure, but the problem here is the association with lack of promotions and punishment. Not being promoted is not a punishment, without some other context to provide that connection. The problem becomes one of rewarding good work without changing positions (which lots of companies are not good at). If anything, people should be "held back" precisely *because* they're good at their jobs. That's where they're performing their best and providing the most value to the business. Maybe a structure of promotion-within-the-same-role can negate some of that. Maybe using a structure that doesn't rank people by their roles. Maybe we need a way to remove the association with role/rank and reward/punishment. I'm no expert in these things, so I don't have a solution for it, but it's absolutely a real catch-22, and something that I think a lot of the standard outsourced customer service kind of business handles poorly.

    The goal of keeping employees in the place that they are of the most value to the company conflicts with using promotions as a reward for excelling in an existing position.
     
  14. PunkBillCarson

    PunkBillCarson SS.org Regular

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    Yeah but promotions often mean a better lifestyle and better jobs. A person who wants to advance shouldn't be held back, especially when they're doing a tremendous job. It shouldn't be "well you're doing a good job, so stay here even if you want to do better and if you become demoralized by our decisions and start putting in poor work performances, that's your problem" No, fuck that. I can take what I know AND my work ethic to another company and guess what? You're STILL going to have to train another person.

    Many people go above and beyond for their employer and no I'm not saying it's altruistic, but there are higher positions for a reason and when a person shows that they can do those positions and train for it and bust their ass only to be stiffed? Hell no.

    Point is, it's better to get someone from inside the company who knows how the company works because when you don't, you have to train someone in a "more" important position. So there'll be training either way. Here's an example: We got a supervisor not long ago from another company and as a result, our department is going to hell for it. The last supervisor we had, they promoted from inside the company and our department was flourishing. And guess what? The less important position he came from? We trained someone to do the job.

    If people don't have the opportunity to advance, why fucking try? If you're satisfied with your job, that's good. But if you want more and you're not able to do so because you're "too good" for your job, it's understandable why they might go somewhere else.
     
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  15. High Plains Drifter

    High Plains Drifter SS.org Regular

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    I actually told her first and foremost when she started going through the "grieving process" last night, that in regards to her "anger-phase" about this, that she essentially did not have anything to "threaten" them with. Threaten is not the correct word because she honestly is not at all a vindictive person in the least. But when she made a couple comments about how they might really regret losing her... I told her exactly what you mentioned... that if they are truly at this level of indifference towards her... towards her career, towards her hard work, etc... that her leaving would likely not be looked upon as a significant loss. I followed that up with the word "expendable" several times... so you know that I get it. You're right and I've been involved in careers and business for many many years so yes, I certainly get that and have tried [in a loving and supportive way] to emphasize/ reiterate to her, the points that you are making.

    I honestly can't thank you guys enough for the advice and support... I need it too sometimes.
     
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  16. Mathemagician

    Mathemagician SS.org Regular

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    I have NEVER said thank you for a promotion. I have NEVER expressed “gratitude” in regards to my compensation, even in person ever.

    They know I will leave if I have to. I outwork everyone and am constantly aware of where opportunities are.

    I effectively make it clear that in exchange for paying me my firm has “first dibs” to promote me/raise my comp.

    I cannot express this clearly enough, even if I like my bosses/team: fucking pay me.

    I had to practically BEG my friend to shoot for the stars on a comp. request when he switched firms - and he did so. He got roughly a 27% increase for moving into a WAY better role.

    They would have been HAPPY to offer him 8% if he’d asked for a 10-15% increase.

    Like I’ve said: it’s not “personal” their job is to manage their teams and keep compensation as low as possible.

    If you’re not getting raises/promotions then either 1) You’re genuinely bad and need to reassess your performance honestly or 2) Time to dip!

    “Loyalty” has no rewards. Think about it, loyalty STILL had to be bought before that’s what a pension was for.

    Now there is no pension, what the fuck is in it for you for staying?

    It’s not hard to stand up for yourself, but you DO have to be willing to walk.

    Edit: If my tone seems rude to anyone I apologize. But the only one looking out for your family is you, I feel badly in situations where others may not realize it/think their situation is “different”.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2017
  17. narad

    narad SS.org Regular

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    My dad convinced me I should sell some bitcoin earlier this year :-/
     
  18. TedEH

    TedEH Cromulent

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    Except, no, they don't. Promotions mean a change of role and responsibility, but all of the rest of that stuff comes from the culture of the company and how you feel about your role at work. I think you've missed my point that yes, this is how people (both as employees and employers) think of promotions, but it shoudln't be. It's a huge issue in entry level jobs where people have trouble feeling like they're appreciated unless they're a "manager" of some kind, but that thinking makes no sense. Being good at entry level tasks doesn't make one good at management tasks. Management is an entirely different skillset than what a person was usually hired for. The problem comes from calling the difference between those roles a "promotion". The problem is giving the manager a higher "rank" in the structure of the company. A manager is not a promotion or a boss, it's an entirely different role that takes a different kind of person. If someone is very good at their non-management role, that in no way speaks to how well they would do as a manager.

    In most of the places I've worked that I would consider part of a "career" and not just any ol' rotating-door, entry level kind of job, a manager was a specific role to hire for, and not someone who was "promoted" from their other roles. But these are also jobs where everyone is hired for a specific purpose, not just to fill seats and meet certain stats. An engineer is hired because they're a good engineer. An artist is hired because they're a good artist. A manager is hired because they're good at managing people. None of those rank above or below anyone else, they simply serve their role. Doing a good job means raises, bonuses, etc. - not a change of job, because that makes no sense.
     
  19. PunkBillCarson

    PunkBillCarson SS.org Regular

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    Except, yes they do, or otherwise why would people even bother with promotions? They're certainly not doing it just for the hell of it. I don't know where you're from, but where I work and in the surrounding areas, many people get promoted from coordinator to supervisor. Happens all the time and when they do, they get more benefits, better pay, more vacation etc...

    I think you've missed MY point.
     
  20. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    Amen!

    No pension = you don't give a shit if I stick around, so you'd better make this job worthwhile in other ways.
     

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