Where Do You Stand On Gun Control/Second Amendment?

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by BenjaminW, Feb 19, 2018.

Where Do You Fall On Gun Control

  1. For

    51 vote(s)
    71.8%
  2. Against

    20 vote(s)
    28.2%
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  1. Spaced Out Ace

    Spaced Out Ace 0 0 1 0 0 6 5 0 3\

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    Yeah it was pretty lame, but I laughed my ass off when I saw it. Then I believe Alex Jones had a freak out over, "WHAT IS THAT? What is that? What is the joke!?" Which I found to be even more hysterical.
     
  2. Vyn

    Vyn Not a Sparkly Vampire Contributor

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    I'm not saying this won't happen again - even if you had the best system and people who abide by it, you still will get a wack-job who will try hard enough to go on the rampage. HOWEVER: The things I mentioned that the NRA should be doing (and yes, the NRA has some responsibility here) would help to firstly reduce the frequency and secondly the severity of these incidents. It may go from having 8-18 or whatever the number was of mass shootings in 2 months down to 1 every two years or something like that. It's going to be a progressive change that get gets better over time, and it may not wipe out the problem completely. But it's a start for sure.

    The individual at the end of the day is indeed responsible for his/her own actions. However I do believe part responsibility for helping to attempt to prevent things like this occurring again does indeed fall on the NRA. They have huge political clout and financial resources behind them that could be used to kick off a cultural change. But they aren't going to. Of course there's the responsibly of Government to provide adequate care and resources to identify potential headcases before things like this happen, and to legislate changes in the system. But the cultural change which IMO is pivotal to anything working in the first place I think needs to come from the NRA.

    I don't have any sympathy for the gunman - I'm not an advocate for capital punishment however being locked in a straight jacket for about 300 years would be a good option -EDIT: After the crime has been committed of course.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2018
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  3. StevenC

    StevenC SS.org Regular

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    Gun violence is due to mentally ill people, so let's torture them to teach them a lesson?

    Let's not given this guy a gun.
     
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  4. narad

    narad SS.org Regular

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    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss also gazes into you. Nah, fuck it, let's torture him to death on Pay-Per-View."
     
  5. xzacx

    xzacx SS.org Regular

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    The NRA would have to care about those things, but since they're counterproductive to their sole purpose of maximizing profits for the gun industry, that will never happen.
     
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  6. Vyn

    Vyn Not a Sparkly Vampire Contributor

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    And in the end it all comes down to money. Mass shootings are good business if you're a gun manufacturer. It's fucking disgusting.
     
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  7. Spaced Out Ace

    Spaced Out Ace 0 0 1 0 0 6 5 0 3\

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    Am I responsible for the poor music someone does because I also play guitar? No? Then how is the NRA responsible? If he were an NRA member, then maybe I'd see your point.

    Referencing Carlin didn't clue you in to the fact I was only being partially serious? Fucking Christ. :rofl:
     
  8. Vyn

    Vyn Not a Sparkly Vampire Contributor

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    There are multiple ways to deconstruct that statement as a poor argument but I'll go for the obvious one -Poor guitar playing does not equal shooting people. Only one of those actually results in harm, not a valid point at all.

    The NRA exists to maximize the profits of the gun manufacturing industry and as a result of this has done nothing, if anything it has hindered every bloody attempt at trying to clean up the mess that is gun crime in the United States (THEY'RE GUNNA TAKE UR GUNS, 2ND AMENDMENT MURICA). It's definitely responsible to a degree - I might have a bit of a naive world view-here but private companies and bodies representing those companies should have a responsibility to society to make sure they aren't contributing to harm. "But they don't have to" you might argue. Correct, they don't but they are usually the best positioned to implement change whether it be due to political or financial influence.
     
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  9. Spaced Out Ace

    Spaced Out Ace 0 0 1 0 0 6 5 0 3\

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    Let's take guns from legal gun owners because people abuse a system that is supposed to be doing background checks to stop people who shouldn't have guns from getting them, while gang bangers who get them illegally still have them.

    Except in that scenario, gun crime still exists because criminals still have guns.
     
  10. Vyn

    Vyn Not a Sparkly Vampire Contributor

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    You're missing the point - I'm not saying take guns from legal owners. Register them with a serial number that can go into a national database, yes. Create different levels of licencing for different classes of guns, yes. You can still have your AR15 if you are willing to jump through the new hoops, and if you don't want to, a buyback program means you can be compensated for that. On top of that, have harsh penalties implemented after an amnesty period for those who fail to comply to the new rules - anyone caught with a gun not registered in their name or that doesn't have a vail serial number period, gets the book thrown at them.

    At an even higher level than that, currently they are legal guns and gun owners. Change the law and suddenly they aren't legal anymore, so point moot.

    Gun crime will ALWAYS exsist, period because we live in a real world society with fuckwits that have an agenda at all costs. New laws and appropriate measures will remove those who will throw the idea of going on a massacre in the too hard basket. A lot of people if you through enough obstacles in front of them simply won't bother.
     
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  11. MFB

    MFB ExBendable

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    I think the point he was trying to make was that the NRA should speak out against those who would use the tool they're a a National Association of (rifle) to do harm to others; and have those who DO use them properly to try and be the face of their organizations, vs. the current crop of people who we think of when we think "rifle owners" which the rest of the world tends to assume is school shooters; EU/other world members, correct me if I'm wrong on that, but I'd say it's a safe bet.
     
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  12. MaxOfMetal

    MaxOfMetal Likes trem wankery. Super Moderator

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    The NRA used to support gun control and education. True story.

    Now they just lobby the government on behalf of gun makers. They don't care about education or proper use, they just care about keeping thier big donors happy, which means arming as many people as possible. They have a financial incentive to arm those that shouldn't be.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/gun-industry-funds-nra-2013-1
     
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  13. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    Some legislator (Steve West), the other day, was saying that schools should have more guns.
     
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  14. MaxOfMetal

    MaxOfMetal Likes trem wankery. Super Moderator

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    And folks wonder why the world is laughing at us.
     
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  15. TedEH

    TedEH Cromulent

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    Can confirm, as a Canadian, it's not uncommon to hear that people say that they are afraid to go anywhere near the US.

    My :2c:: There's this common thread that the "real issue(tm)" is mental health, and that we should be targeting mental illness instead of doing anything that effects the average person - as if those are entirely separate groups of people. Who are we kidding though? Every second person you run into has some kind of anxiety or depression, or is (pun partially intended) triggered by all kinds of nonsense. The average person, at this rate, IS the mentally ill. Mental illness is not something like cancer or the flu - it's not a you-have-it-or-you-don't situation -> the average level of mental health right now is not great, from what I can tell. And besides that you can't "cure" mental illness in that sense. There's no concrete way (that I'm aware of) to eliminate a significant about of mental illness. Gun control, however can do something concrete, which is what I think needs to happen-> Something/anything concrete instead of just doing nothing and coming up with excuses.

    I mean, go back and look at the list/breakdown of those 18 shootings from a few pages back - the majority of those cases fall under what I would call pretty average people. Gun control isn't about "the bad guys" it's about opportunity, because a lot of times the difference between a good guy and a bad guy is just the opportunity. I don't buy the idea that only some kind of special "ill" or "bad guy" make poor decisions when presented with an opportunity to do something terrible. Average people + opportunity = bad things happen. Take the opportunity away (be it by eliminating access to guns, or whatever else), and less bad things happen.
     
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  16. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    ...and the statistic that I have a 1 in 315 chance of being murdered with a gun in the USA certainly doesn't have a positive effect on my mental health.
     
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  17. Randy

    Randy ROOMFORYOUROOMFORYOUROOMFORYOU Super Moderator

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  18. Mr Violence

    Mr Violence SS.org Regular

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    Hey guys. Haven't been here in a while, but I just wanted to dish this hot take observation that implying that criminals will follow new guns laws is just clumsy, willful dodging of the whole debate.

    No one in this thread or anywhere on earth is saying, "Well if we make guns illegal, criminals and people with malicious intent won't use them because they'll definitely obey the law!"

    Proposed gun control measures do not imply that's what will happen. It's just a way to dodge further discourse because of an incensed, emotional response that people hate the idea of gun control on any level. I am so, so, so sick of that talking point.



    I like guns. Grew up with them. I will have my family's shotgun in my house until I pass it along. I have no problem with a shotgun, rifle, or even handguns when people are responsible.

    That said, I'm for gun control. I see no reason for a semi-automatic or automatic rifle with a high capacity magazine to be available for anyone. I'm for reasonable debate and speculation of outcomes. I'm for doing anything at this point. Americans have handed over their balls and are spoon fed opinions and talking points in return for feeling like a hero cowboy and the illusion of freedom.

    I'm not saying everyone needs to turn in their guns if they already have them. I'm saying what everyone else has been saying. Registration of firearms, background checks, safety courses, limitations on what people are allowed to sell when it comes to functionality, magazine size, etc.


    Outside of reasonable debate, here are some entertaining things that go through my head as an American that I don't put forward as actual points, because I know they're a little wild. It's just how I feel:

    • The Constitution isn't respected by anyone. Just used as a tool for whatever dumb fuck talking point people need at the moment.
    • The Constitution is flawed and should be entirely overhauled, or at the very least translated for the 21st century.
    • People seem to forget how many times we've amended the Constitution because it had some real dumb fuck ideas in it. When 2 amendments exist, one revoking the other, you should infer that we rarely know what the fuck we're doing as a country.
    • People need grow the fuck up and let the idea of owning every gun on earth go. You're statstically NEVER going to use it for home defense or defense on the street. You just want another bang-bang toy.
      • "This could easily crack an engine block with one shot." Wow, who fucking cares?
    • In defensive situations, an assault rifle is the least practical option almost every single time. Unless you think your property is going to be stormed by a SWAT team. And in that scenario, there are probably other factors to why that's happening. But let's not think of nuance, let's just think of the fact that you get to be Scarface.
    • The NRA's sole purpose is to sell people on the need for a gun. And America buys it wholesale.
    • People have been programmed with canned responses to this debate to the point where I got to page 5 and the only talking points against gun control were ones I've read for the past 10 years.
    • Only a coward would think of guns as a means for conflict resolution first.

    None of these are to be taken to heart, but holy fuck I am exhausted of this debate and the the whole past year and where the country's at right now.
     
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  19. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    :agreed:
    I've made that point before in another thread. There are pretty solid examples of every one of the first ten amendments being completely ignored by the courts.
    I've said this before as well. A lot of folks here get really uncomfortable with the idea, but there are too many examples of the Constitution not being clear enough.
    Prohibition was a huge mistake. Other than that, though, the amendments are almost all appended onto the law rather than taking it out.
    As a hobbyist, I am sometimes frustrated by the fact that there are certain electronics I cannot use or own in my home that have specific hobby purposes, just because they might be dangerous if used improperly, yet I could go down to Rick's Gun Store and it'd take me about 3-5 minutes to purchase a weapon that has the sole design purpose for killing large quantities of people. But whatever, that's the law...
    Which is exactly the point I've been making in this thread.
    I don't have a problem with the NRA. I think the organization has a necessary purpose. I just think that they are, by and large, too defensive and paranoid to really do any good at the moment.
    That was kind of what I was getting at back on page 2.
    Yet we live in a time and a place where cops, robbers, and crazy people always reach for the gun the moment anything gets the least bit sketchy in a heated situation.
     
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  20. narad

    narad SS.org Regular

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    A sensible post on gun control from .... Mr. Violence.
     
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