Ukraine (sorry?)

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by marshallH, Jan 29, 2014.

  1. venndi

    venndi SS.org Regular

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    It is written in many newspaper...I can give it to you, if you want to read, but its on hungarian language, and yes, not only the hungarians, the rusyns too, so I speak about Zakarpattia Oblast region. The current govenments first step was, that they make a new language law, against the minoritis (I know its against russians, but it will against the other minorities).

    I don't know what is the main opinion in your land about the whole thing, but Ill write what we think about it.
    In this war Ukraine is just a puppet, just a little toy for USA. This war is about "who is bigger" USA or Russia. Euromaidan was a planned game. There are facts, that people get money, that they make a trouble. Also (USA)sharpshooters shoot the citizens and the policemans too, and so started the civil war, policemans think that the civilians started the trouble, the civilians think that the policeman started. After Janukovich, the USA get what he want, one USA/EU friendly government. Your new government is under USA politics...Now its time that Ukraine join to the NATO. Now I ask you, who is the agressor, just look at this picture: http://www.amagyaroldal.hu/dokumentumok/kepeim/6usa t√°maszpontok.jpg .

    I read that 90% of Ukrainian citizens won't get in this war, if they became the order for going to army, they just don't take over these papers. This war is profitable only for the USA. The (West) EU/USA just ordering some sanctions against russia, they speak easy, but we east and west european also, for us is necessery russia, becouse of the gas. I don't love Russia, but they just defend their position. Also, what do you think, what would be doing the USA, if the neighbour Canada is joining to Russia's or China's army? Just staying and watching? I don't think so. Belive me, Ukraine can't won this war, just losing more innocent people.
     
  2. oversteve

    oversteve SS.org Regular

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    Well, that is just as I said taking a separate region highly populated by the Hungarian minority that might be true. If I'm not mistaken there are around 200k native Hungarians in Zakarpatya and the total population is a little bit over 1mil, so if the numbers mentioned in your papers are around 15-20% then I believe it's normal. But if you take the overall statistics into consideration including other Regions besides Zakarpattya where there are no Hungarians at all it will be completely different.

    I'm already sick and tired of speaking of that infamous "new language law" but I'll try explaining it once again.
    First - it was not the new law, it was a cancelation of an old law that was used by the former president Yanukovich's Regions Party for speculations among their electorate, it wasn't working in the first place, the only thing it did was causing disorder when working with the documents.
    Second - it wasn't canceled, it's cancelation was vetoed for the sole reason of bringing down the speculations. But even if it was canceled the law to start working right after it is the one adopted in the mid 70th if I'm not mistaken and as you can understand the law adopted in USSR times could in no way harm those speaking Russian language.
    And thanks to our former "brethren" from Russia all that was twisted to look like prohibiting the use of all other languages except for Ukrainian one.

    That looks just like an essay pulled from the Russian newspaper :lol:
    Please be sure to read something about the events that took place here from some more or less reputable sources, on Wiki at least.

    Did NATO invade those countries and made them place those bases by force? Did Russia invade Crimea and took it by force? So who's the aggressor now in our exact case? :scratch:
    I guess every country neighbouring with Russia will start thinking on joining NATO now considering the danger they are in and that mr. Huilo (aka Putin) already claimed that the rights of the Russian speaking cimmunities are oppressed not only in Ukraine but in other countries as well. Same in Ukraine - at first it wasn't even considered but now many people here wish we joined NATO when we had an opportunity...

    Pardon me, but it's Russia and not US who invaded Ukraine. If it's not profitable for them they can stop it any moment ordering their underdogs in the East to retreat however they are still supplying them with the ammo and "volounteers" from Russia outscirts to escalate the conflict.

    It's hard to determine the real cause of the war. Some say it's over bringing down the world prices on the oil which is a biggest source of foreign currency income in Russia, some say it's Putin's ambition to gather the lands back into USSR, some say that it's to not let the Chinese get into the Black Sea region and so on. The Nato bases in Crimea were considered a threat as well at frist but probably not now that there will be one in Estonia near 150 km away from their second largest city.
     
  3. Andrew Romanov

    Andrew Romanov SS.org Regular

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    Exactly. Next our dear ex-Russian oversteve will claim that you are Putin's agent. I think if their government's media tell him to believe in pink unicorns he will do so.
    The US invasion started 24 years ago(with the fall of the Soviet Union) when Soros fund released new history books for Ukrainian kids and students. Strange professors have appeared in universities telling stories why Russia shouldn't be respected and liked. Non-commercial "democratic" funds were opened all over the country. Money was flowing constantly. The only purpose was to separate Russia from Ukraine on mentality level. Same things were happening in all post-Soviet countries, including Russia.
    These things have completely reformatted the entire generation. Eastern regions due to closer ties with Russia managed to remember their history and roots, western have been brainwashed(to a ridiculous level I must say). After that the only thing to do was to heat up hate and prepare radicals, neo-nazis, whoever to have a force in the right time. To start a war. The US president's councillor expected this to begin in 2004 if I remember correctly. Typical scenario that has been used many times. I guess Yugoslavia has been separated the same way.
    Russia thanks to Putin avoided that. That's why we are called agressors now when we protect our interests and people.
     
  4. oversteve

    oversteve SS.org Regular

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    How should Russia be called after invading another country and openly supporting terrorists? :lol: What really separated us is aggresive behaviour of Russia and not some random bull.... based on conspiracy theories.

    And sorry but we don't want to go back in USSR, it's natural that we are longing to blend into the part of society that is more successful then your country. We already saw the examples of how Russia helped Afganistan, Obhazia, Osetia, Chechnya, and now Crimea. On the other hand Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania are quite happy breaking all the ties with you, and we will be some day :)

    Also whatever we try we won't be able to reach the level of brainwashing in Russia, probably the only worthy contestant you've got is North Korea :lol:
     
  5. farren

    farren SS.org Regular

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    I feel like I'm reading one of the comment threads on any news website that is on the daily agenda of the poor people working at the Saint Petersburg troll factory to make a few more rubles a day than the "local miners and farmers" driving advanced Russian tanks they purchased at military surplus stores in the Donbas.
     
  6. oversteve

    oversteve SS.org Regular

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    Here's the face of an average "miner" or "farmer" of Donbass, such a great specimen of a native European inhabitants :lol:
    [​IMG]

    Unfortunatelly it's not only trolls, there are tons of people there believeing that crazy stuff and trying to explain us what's happening in our country and why they are bringing us their rotten "Russki Mir".
    We even got a saying here that goes:
    Woke up in the morning, don't know where my left sock is, better call my friend in Russia he surely knows where I can find it.
     
  7. Andrew Romanov

    Andrew Romanov SS.org Regular

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    These people are obviously supported by us with some weapons and training. So is the other side by US weapons and military personnel. But with a regular army? Go to Donbass and search for it yourself. Or try to ask NATO for satellite images. They will draw them for you in a couple of minutes. They look kinda fakey though.
    Also you can go search for trolls anywhere else. The US/UK propaganda is far worse(or better?) than you may think of it. Cold War #2 is here.
     
  8. Andrew Romanov

    Andrew Romanov SS.org Regular

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    These "theories" are basically proven facts. Education is the key.

    Ukraine have nothing to offer to this society at this point so they don't have any reasons to welcome your people. Wait 50 years when your kids will pay off your IMF debts first.
    Logic, just use it, it's helpful.

    At least now you know the names of some regions.
    Ok, ok, I'm leaving, say hello to Europe from me. And also to that unicorn you see now ;)
     
  9. oversteve

    oversteve SS.org Regular

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    If you listen to Russian media then may be yes, they are so educative :lol:

    The thing we have to offer to Europe that even a narrow minded person that you are can clearly see is our consumtion market, 40+mil extra people is no joke :wavey: And believe they would be glad if those 40+mil have funds to buy that stuff improted from EU therefore having another successful country is of benefit for them.
    I have no illusion of Ukraine joining EU in the nearest decade or two but fullfilling the trade treaty making the customs' obsolete would be of great benefit for both of sides.

    Seems like you already left 3 or 4 times, just like Scoprions going on with the one last final tour once again :lol:
     
  10. venndi

    venndi SS.org Regular

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    oversteve: you can laughing about my comment, but these are FACTS(sharpshooters, and giving money to hooligans to making trouble). You hadn't answer me...what is your goal with 7-8 million russians? See, on the other hand, Kosovo was supported 100% by the EU and the USA, but now in this situation won't they support, but the things are very similiar, and don't say me please, that Russia support these peoples, yes, Putin supported these people, becouse the army, weapons are in Ukrainians hand...so, it was necessery. If i'm not mistake, in Donbass and in Crimea was a legitim elections, and the result was 90% for separating...it is their choice, and they have right if they won't live under chauvinist illegitim government.

    About NATO, when the SSSR fell apart, then were an agreement, that the former SSSR countries and the east-block countries(like Hungary, Slovakia, Poland etc) won't join to the NATO, now look at the map again, and see who is a provocator and agressor. America is laughing about this situation, they will benefit, and Europe, Ukraine, Russia sucks, but mostly Ukraine.
    I read that the 2 main reason for protest at euromaidan was, the poorness (of course) and, that Janukovich said, that Ukraine won't join to the EU. The second thing was a reason why had the USA eliminated the Russian friendly Janukovich. If you think, that the USA help for you just becouse the USA is on highest moral in the world, then you are blind.

    About EU: If the protesters were that night on the street, becouse Janukovich said, that Ukraine won't join to the EU, I can also say, that these people are blind. In Hungary 80% of the people want exit from the EU, but now its won't be an easy thing(our government had make the first steps to exit from this monopol situation, and open more economically to Russia, Turkey...). EU don't help us, just give sanction for everything, our economy is under ground, everithing is privatisated...nothing has changed, just the debt has rised up, so we can pay forever. The only good thing in EU is, that you don't need to wait at border, you can easy to travel, if you have a money haha...and second good "thing" is, that you can leave your country, and go to the west EU, but its a bad thing for every country, of corse not bad for Germany and England...About manufacturers who are in Hungary, they are not the Santa Claus, they won't give you a payment like in Germany. You should look at twice where you are going.
     
  11. oversteve

    oversteve SS.org Regular

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    Some weapons you say? Here's an outdated list from mid September with proofs on some of those who are not there and their weaponry :lol:
    Proofs of Russian Troops Invasion in Ukraine

    Russian Regular troops are mostly presented with the leading personel and artilery. Those who are used as cannon fodder in direct fights mostly are remains of local scum and those gastarbeiters coming from the outskirts of Russia like the one in the picture.
     
  12. oversteve

    oversteve SS.org Regular

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    What FACTS? Hooligans getting money for trouble were part of antimaidan, that pro-russian force of skum hired to beat people, that is a fact and there are proofs of it seen everywhere. At the same time I'm not claiming that all the participants of Euromaidan weren't involved with money and that that force was not used by the politics from opposition to their benefit. Many people involved there were for there personal beliefs, someone was naive thinking we will start living like in EU immediately and someone with more realistic views thought that it will lead to positive changes in the country.
    There are no facts about the origin of shooters at the moment. There was some talk on the phone of EU representatives and one of them was implying that snipers MIGHT be from EU, Russian media took it and twisted like they knew the snipers are from EU for sure. At the momemnt there is also a version those snipers were from Russia.

    And what should be our goal? I'm a typical representative of Russian minority freely speking Russian where I want, I don't feel opressed in any way and that my right for national identification are somehow lessened. Same goes for the most of those 7-8mil people. Of course there are exceptions to that, mostly people over the age of 40-50 dreaming of bringing back USSR not being able to find their place in current society and some teens that got under their bad influence.
    I won't say anything about the Balcans since I'm not that well versed in what happened there.
    And unfortunately you're mistaken about those legitimate elections. Take Crimea for example - no official observers from other countries besides some members of the Ultra-right parties of EU supporting Huilo's policy, shady voting procedure under the guns of Russian forces that already invaded the land, shady voting bulletins printed on an average laser printers with no watermarks, shady results with 95% total of electorate voting that turned out to be near 17% in the end and that's according to the official Russian presidential human rights watch :spock:
    Same goes for the "referendum" in Donbass

    Again thut just shows how shallow is your knowledge of what's happening here. Please try to go a little bit deeper into it. We weren't going to join the EU, we were going to sign a trade treaty, can you feel the difference?
     
  13. Tuned

    Tuned SS.org Regular

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    It is a sad fact that a few guys that take care of what's happening are talking to an retaded bot.
    Bot, because he's not taking arguments, only repeats one unreal comment over another.
    Retarded, because he's doing it in the wrong place. It is absolutely clear that the three persons that pay attention are all from East Europe.
     
  14. Tuned

    Tuned SS.org Regular

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    It is a sad fact that a few guys that take care of what's happening are talking to an retaded bot.
    Bot, because he's not taking arguments, only repeats one unreal comment over another.
    Retarded, because he's doing it in the wrong place. It is absolutely clear that the three persons that pay attention are all from East Europe.
     

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