Trouble dialing in a good tone

Discussion in 'Gear & Equipment' started by broj15, Dec 13, 2011.

  1. broj15

    broj15 SS.org Regular

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    I did some searching with google and couldn't turn up any results but if I'm missing something feel free to post a link to the thread and then close this one.

    So last weekend i decided i was wanting to try out some overdrive pedals at my local guitar center to see which one i preferred. They wouldn't let me plug any of the pedals into the 6506+ head like i wanted but luckily they had a 6505+ 1x12 combo amp in the "demo room" witch i figured was close enough.
    Well i picked out the 3 pedals that seemed like the obvious choices (ibanez ts9, ibanez ts808, and a maxon od808) and proceded to try them out. after getting the pedals set up my signal chain looked like this

    Schecter c7 hellraiser with emg 81-7 in the bridge---> overdrive pedal---> 6505+ combo amp.

    I dialed my amp in to my liking and then turned on the first pedal (ibanez ts808). Thats when things started to fall apart. I only noticed a slight boost in gain and absolutely no increase in tightness (kind of the whole point of me using a od pedal.) So i tried dicking around with the knobs on the amp: cutting low end, increasing mid and high, cutting pre gain etc. etc.

    This still left me unsattisfied so i moved on to the next pedal (ts9) and it still didn't do the trick after 15 minutes of tweaking. Then i tried the maxon od808 without yielding a much better result. In addition to this, when i tried the ts9 and the maxon, i had this harsh, high end kind of "clank" that i heard as my pick struck the string.

    Just to make things clear I'm looking to get a really tight, slightly percussive low end like on Born of Osiris' new album or on Veil of Maya's new album.

    I think what pisses me off the most is i spent nearly an hour trying to dial in a good tone when i can spend about 5 minutes with the 30 watt peavey vypyr i use at my guitar instructors home and get a decent if not good and sattisfying sound.

    So i guess my main question is am i just a total n00b and i can't dial in a good tone for shit? am i eq'ing it wrong? or is what i'm trying to achieve just not possible (highly unlikely)? I once again call upon the all knowing minds of ss.org to help me with another problem :bowdown:

    EDIT: I'm pretty sure it's not a technique issue either, as i can "djent" (as much as i hate the term) pretty well when playing though the aforementioned vypyr.
     
  2. pearl_07

    pearl_07 SS.org Regular

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    Not sure if I'll be of any help, but try the pedals again with the 6505+ 112's lead channel with the pre around 10-11 o'clock, the eq all around 1:30. Leave the res around 3:30 with the presence a little below that. Also make sure the reverb is completely dialed out. Any OD pedal (OD808 is my weapon of choice) with the OD at 0, the tone at noon, and the level/volume cranked should do fine. You might want to slap an ISP Decimator in the front as well to yield the best results.
     
  3. mikemueller2112

    mikemueller2112 SS.org Regular

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    Did you turn the gain on the amp down when you turned on the OD pedal? It doesn't need to be set very high.
     
  4. Leuchty

    Leuchty Previously CYBERSYN

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    What were the OD settings?

    I have a TS-9 at home that I use to boost a solid state amp. I can NOT have it on with my clean channel as its waaay to fucking loud.

    Make sure, on the OD, that the gain is at 0 and the volume is at 10. Thats a good starting point.
     
  5. petereanima

    petereanima Br00tal Bubbly Mofo

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    I actually always found that "volume on 10" is too much, on every pedal. On my tubescreamers I always have them (it was always a bit different from pedal to pedal, common component tolerances+differences in circuits etc.) at ~1:00 - 2:00 (o' lock)..gain just a milimeter above 0. tone pretty neutral, depending on the guitar, a bit more towards the brighter side.
     
  6. cwhitey2

    cwhitey2 BlackendCrust Metalâ„¢

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    Those combos are open back right? If so that would make things less tight. I dont have a problem with a boost on my 5150, it works wonders actually.
     
  7. Greatoliver

    Greatoliver Looking to windward

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    What were your settings on the amp?

    I have a 6505+ 112, and a TS7 and it is definitely possible to get a percussive tone out of it. I have my OD on max level, min gain, and so I have the gain on the amp really low - about 9oclock. The boost gives the extra saturation while keeping it percussive: listen to the Red Seas Fire album and listen to the guitars, there is very little gain on them but they have a very tight tone.

    Also, watch the bass and the resonance. Both add a bit of depth and kick, but also loosen the sound, so you need a balance - I run both at 9oclock.

    I think the other thing is that when you listen to an album, you have the guitars but also the bass and the drums in the mix. The bass guitar is really important in metal, as it gives the bass frequencies but also a lot of the punch, as does the kick drum. When dialing in a guitar, you really don't need the bottom frequencies as the other instruments will give them. Also, the guitars are often double tracked, which is hard to replicate with one guitar. Try finding parts where just the guitar is playing, I think Combustion by Meshuggah is an example, and the guitars often sound thin.



    And crank your mids :lol:

    Hope that helped

    EDIT: They're closed back
     
  8. Leuchty

    Leuchty Previously CYBERSYN

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    True. I just meant a starting point...basically the concept.
     
  9. Go To Bed Jessica

    Go To Bed Jessica SS.org Regular

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    Maybe the tubescreamer isn't your thing?

    It will actually rob you of some low end while bumping the mids and upper mids up. So, I guess it depends what you mean when you say "tight" bottom end. If you still want loads of chunk with a stiff/fast/precise response, the TS may not be your bag.

    I would also be wary of cranking the volume too high as you can only hit the preamp section of the amp with so much signal before it starts to get mushy.

    I'd want the sound on the amp to be right *before* I turned the pedal on, and then tweak the pedal to add something or enhance what is already there. IMO if you are changing amp settings to suit a pedal, you're chasing your tail.
     
  10. Greatoliver

    Greatoliver Looking to windward

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    The chunk is more a function of the low mids than the bass however. Getting a tight lower end often equates to cutting it, which is what tubescreamers are good at - the eq part of the pedal tightens your sound by reducing low end. Look at Amon Amarth, they have a really chunky tone and use Maxon OD808s with 6505+s (I think). The boosting will help give the amp some more bite which will help with the response.

    I think you do have to chase your tail a bit. While I agree with EQ, I've found that boosting an amp allows you to turn your gain down to get a more crunchy sound that isn't possible without the OD. Without it switched on, my rhythm sound is more in the rock/blues territory of gain, but when I kick it in it has gives the extra saturation that I need. I think the fact that the OD contributes to the level of gain means that I would have too much if I set it before. IMHO :wavey:
     
  11. broj15

    broj15 SS.org Regular

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    Thanks for all the help guys. Perhaps I should have posted my settings in my first post :p

    my seetings on the amp are as follows
    low: between 10 o'clock and 11 o'clock
    mid: between 1 o'clock and 2 o'clock
    high: between 3 o'clock and 4 o'clock
    res and pres at around noon
    no reverb
    pre gain at around 3 o'clocl (i backed off on this alot once i turned the pedals on)

    as far as the pedal settings are concerned i tried everything from zeroing out the over drive to boosting the over drive, cranking tone and level and everything else in between.
     
  12. Brian D

    Brian D SS.org Regular

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    You have way too much gain, even without a pedal. Turn back the gain, and beef up your picking hand and you'll get much tighter results. :yesway:
     
  13. Greatoliver

    Greatoliver Looking to windward

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    +1

    Drop the bass and the gain, boost the mids. Maybe drop the resonance too, and watch the treble as it contributes to the everpresent fizz.
     
  14. TemjinStrife

    TemjinStrife Power Metal Cellist

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    Gain shouldn't be past noon, especially on that lead channel. Hell, gain at noon on the "rhythm" channel set to crunch is more gain than I typically use :lol:
     
  15. Dvaienat

    Dvaienat SS.org Regular

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    Back off the gain to around noon, bass at around 1 o'clock, mids to around 2 o'clock and treble at around 11 o'clock. Presence and resonance around noon also. As for the OD, rather than using it as a boost, turn the tone and level up and the drive down. If you pick harder, you'll get better response from the amp. Those were the settings I used last time I played a 6505+, they worked great for me and I'm not generally a Peavey fan :yesway:
     

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