The Walking Dead thread (encore) [SPOILER ALERT]

Discussion in 'Movies, Books, TV & Media' started by Alberto7, Apr 2, 2015.

  1. Rosal76

    Rosal76 SS.org Regular

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    You're not the only person who thought the episode was over the top. Aside from the countless fans, many of the actors including Jeffrey Dean Morgan thought the same thing. Jeffrey even stated this comment about the episode in a interview:

    "It got to the point where I didn't want to do it anymore ..."

    Link to interview for those who are interested.

    http://www.vulture.com/2016/10/jeffrey-dean-morgan-on-the-walking-dead-premiere.html

    I was angry, disturbed, and sad about the episode, also. I'm sure it was absolute torture for the actors/crew who were there to film it. :eek:
     
  2. glassmoon0fo

    glassmoon0fo Some Say...

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    In the violence of the show, is a message that some people already understand and don't need to be reminded of, and that some people need a refresher on. The universe itself doesn't give a damn what you deserve or how you want your existence to go, and offing our poor protagonists in that terrible way was Kirkman's way of reminding people what the show was about. The shock and gore of it all was part of that, and if you're disgusted, that's exactly what he was going for.

    TWD was never written to have happy, neat resoloution. Kirkman himself has said that he would never even speak about what the outbreak was, where it came from, or if it ever ends, he just want's to explore the "realities" of what a zombie apocalypse would be like. I believe the quote on the first issue inside cover was "99% of people would do the same thing, taste delicious." I for one, am glad that he has tried to keep that sense of foreboding, truly gut-wrenching terror alive in the series, because if we're being honest, most people ALREADY ARE desensitized to the violence going on in our world today. I think that rejecting the reality of that violence is more dangerous that being asked to deal with it on TV.

    Kirkman gets a passing grade here from me, for the simple fact that people are talking about these scenes like they didn't happen to Emmett Till in real life, just for example. Don't like it? I'm sure his mother didn't either. Just something to think about.
     
  3. PunkBillCarson

    PunkBillCarson SS.org Regular

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    Personally, the way I look at it, the violence wasn't just there to shock. It was there to really get to you and when I see someone say that everyone's been desensitized on one board and then turn to a few others and see comments about how they couldn't watch it anymore, and it disturbed them, that to me doesn't say desensitized. It tells me the scene worked. I don't get grossed out by fake gore. I get grossed out in real life when someone's finger gets cut off (I work in a factory) trying to clear a jam in a machine. You can say all you want that our sub-conscience doesn't register the difference, I disagree. There is a vast emotional difference between what you see on TV and what you experience in real life. For me, there is a difference. The sheer brutality of it and the way the character pokes fun at those he's just killed, THAT is what bothered me about the scene, and that's why I know the scene worked.
     
  4. Adam Of Angels

    Adam Of Angels The GAS Man Contributor

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    You made an assumption about the universe/reality that is nothing more than pessimistic and perhaps nihilistic conjecture, not fact. I would argue that the opposite could actually be true. At the very least, we (humans) are capable of making choices that have positive effects on each other and the planet, so why would we choose to instead keep violence and ugliness in mind? Yeah, it happened to somebody in real life, and it was terrible..... what sense does it make to recreate it artificially to keep it fresh on our minds? You could do any number of horrific things to people if you choose to, but that doesn't in any way mean that we should keep those images in our mind. It exists in society when people choose for it to exist, and it simply doesn't have to. In case you might say "lions slaughter gazelle", you aren't a lion, and nobody else is a gazelle. We are intelligent awareness, if nothing else, and we can choose to make the world a better or worse place.

    PunkBillCarson: the thing with the subconscious mind is that it partially consists of more primal elements than your conscious mind does. It's reactions aren't necessarily in line with the beliefs and conditioning of the conscious mind. When you see violent images, a part of you assimilates that information as if it were real, in the same way that your biology reacts to pornography as if it were an actual sexual experience, in part. I'm not suggesting that seeing these images will lead you to replicate them in reality, or that it effects you exactly as much as the real thing, but it certainly doesn't contribute to happiness or health in the same way that empowering and positive ideas do.

    This might all sound a tad hippyish, but just think about it: what does it say about a person if they choose violence and gore for entertainment? Can you say, with confidence, that it's not an indication of something concerning either personally or societally?


    Anyway, so as to not get too far off track: to make this relevant to the discussion, I think the show would be dramatically improved by implying some of the more disturbing content, rather than going into graphic detail. Or, it may actually fall on its face without the gore, at this point.
     
  5. FILTHnFEAR

    FILTHnFEAR Infidel

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    You're making assumptions that because those of us that weren't offended by the episode like you were, are sadists/nihilists, not normal healthy people, are ....ed in the head, and you're "concerned". Sorry, just because you couldn't handle it, doesn't mean there's something wrong with those of us that could.

    It was a disturbing scene, I've grown to love those characters and it was absolutely brutal and very intense. I doubt too many of us sat there and cheered or watched with a smile while this occurred, but it fits the show/world they're living in perfectly.

    People like Negan do exist in the real world, Nazi's experimenting to see how much brutal abstract methods of torture human beings could withstand, Japanese Imperial officers having contests to see how many prisoners they could decapitate in an afternoon, serial killers wearing other peoples faces etc. There are people in our world that could do what Negan did, and smile while doing it, so I don't think this is so over the top that it's not acceptable. Horrible and difficult to watch, but realistic and it completely got the reaction Kirkman was going for.

    There are uplifting moments on the show, where they've worked together to survive, sacrifices along the way so that others could live. But look at the world they're living in, society destroyed, no consequences for ones actions(lawfully speaking), the dead consuming the living. Uplifting positive moments would most certainly be few and far between and the show reflects that.

    Ricks group has gone through a .... ton, accomplished a lot, but they got cocky and ....ed with the wrong people and now they're paying for it.This was a great start to a new season, and what Negan did set the tone. The Governor was a pretty horrible person so in bringing in a new villain to TWD it had to be someone even worse. Kirkman has done this with Negan.

    I love having someone to hate, it usually makes a show for me. And I'm looking forward to more TWD than I have in a while. Can't wait.
     
  6. blacai

    blacai SS.org Regular

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    I will say also, for me, this is the best scene so far...


    What is the difference now?
     
  7. Adam Of Angels

    Adam Of Angels The GAS Man Contributor

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    I don't want to repeat myself needlessly, but it's not about whether or not I can "handle" it. I'm not loosing sleep over it. It's about, why are we accepting this as entertainment? If somebody finds that scene entertaining, there is something wrong. I'm not really even suggesting something ridiculous here.

    Again, yes, people do screwed up things in the world, because they choose to do those things..... why does that mean we should recreate it and witness it willingly? That is a very bizarre notion. Its not acceptable in reality, so why is it acceptable in our entertainment? I have a better idea: let's not do that kind of stuff at all in the real world. At the very least, let's not recreate it artificially if we can help it. Once more: our very biggest art project is filled with horrific violence. That's concerning.
     
  8. PunkBillCarson

    PunkBillCarson SS.org Regular

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    You do realize there are "happy places" and "happy" forms of entertainment for you to peruse, right? And what I want to know is, why is this form of entertainment that is the Walking Dead that you're attacking? Are you just doing it here, or are you going all over the Internet and attacking exceptionally gory pieces of work?
     
  9. Adam Of Angels

    Adam Of Angels The GAS Man Contributor

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    Again, this is one of, and possibly society's biggest creative project (taking into consideration budget, viewership, franchise, etc.), and it's not above what we saw the other night. There is much worse out there, but this show is huge.
     
  10. PunkBillCarson

    PunkBillCarson SS.org Regular

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    Yes, but it's not the only one is what I'm getting at. If it makes you feel better, go on strike. OR use YOUR talents to create something happier and draw in more viewers. But I feel like you're using a good amount of restraint in not directly saying you're better than the rest of us. That's the impression I'm getting and if we are a bunch of sick, twisted, nihilistic individuals, oh well. That's your perception, but not the only one and certainly not one that's been proven by fact to be "right."

    [​IMG]
     
  11. narad

    narad SS.org Regular

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    It's not society's project.
     
  12. glassmoon0fo

    glassmoon0fo Some Say...

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    Adam, I get that you're coming from an intensely positive and hopeful place, and I really like that. I wouldn't say that I'm nihilistic, but as the head of a household I like to be realistic. Horror movies took on a very different meaning for me when I realized, if I'm in the movie, I'm the first line of defense between the bad guy and my loved ones. So, for me, Sunday was a shot to the arm, and a reminder to me personally that even though we wish the whole world could be chocolate covered cherries and unicorns riding rainbows and shyt, we essentially all live in one giant bad neighborhood, and I choose to lock my doors.

    You want us to promote positivity, I got positivity out of it. Mission accomplished.

    EDIT: as far as my conjecture about the universe, I say to you, good people die every day. If you choose to give reason to it, then sure, we have differing opinions at the very base of our own arguments here. Would perfectly explain why we disagree, and I'm cool with that. I do like your vision, but I don't think a world that COMPLETELY forgets that violence has been THE main enforcer of power throughout the first 98% of human existence would do a good job of knowing what to do with that part of our nature. Everybody knows and shows their light, but their darkness tells them so much more about themselves when they deal with it. IMO.
     
  13. Adam Of Angels

    Adam Of Angels The GAS Man Contributor

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    I didn't say anything that could even be misconstrued in this way - I don't think I'm better than you guys. You're jumping to some pretty intense conclusions.

    To make my point another way: if the top two candidates for a Presidential election were murderers and rapists, and they both had plenty of supporters, it would be safe to say that we (as a society) are not reserving our highest platforms for things/people/ideas that preserve moral integrity and empowerment. It would be safe to say that we don't have our priorities straight, and that we're not striving to be the best that we can be.

    Similarly, what concerns me is that our greatest artistic platform is not above what we saw the other night. It's a project that only grows this large with a great deal of support from society, and so it is by and large a product of society's priorities and moral backbone. Listen, I've watched the show up to this point and loved it. But there is definitely a point where the line is crossed, and beyond that point, I can't support the cause. I was hoping that TWD and AMC would choose to handle that scene with more reservation and mind for the size of their viewership, but "shock" and "effectiveness" took priority over any such consideration. You don't agree - I get it. But at what point would you say that it's been taken too far? Surely there is a line that you feel shouldn't be crossed. Surely you don't think that it's acceptable for people to support and enjoy the most horrific thing you can imagine, right? If I'm right about that, then it's simply a sliding scale, and I argue that what happened on the Season 7 premier was more graphic than should be acceptable from our very biggest art project.

    Narad: read above. This show wouldn't be in its 7th season if it wasn't for society's dedication to it.
     
  14. Necris

    Necris Bonitis.

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    I can appreciate where you're coming from with your general argument in the thread. I don't think you're necessarily wrong but I don't personally see the killings in this episode and the general popularity of the show as some sign of society's moral/spiritual decay, either. Regarding the statement above I'd argue that I don't think society would be "dedicated" enough to this show to keep it running for seven seasons if all it had to offer viewers was gore. I'd be shocked if a show filled with gore but no appreciable story or character depth/development made it past season 2 (at best).
     
  15. QuantumCybin

    QuantumCybin Lost In Thought

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    Man, I love this show. Unforgiving and brutal. Never read the comics so I was very surprised and heartbroken at the new episode but you know what, this show always goes where you think they won't. So good.
     
  16. Vrollin

    Vrollin SS.org Regular

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    Only the similarities between the show and your scenario here are ZERO...

    The show is not one of two shows on TV, there is a huge range of entertainment options available for you to watch (perhaps a Hugh Grant rom com is more your speed), the show is not a choose your own adventure and you do NOT get to vote for its content. However if you were to treat it like an election you would simply vote for the other party, in this case not supporting the show simply by not switching on to it.....
     
  17. Adam Of Angels

    Adam Of Angels The GAS Man Contributor

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    What I said may have been poorly stated - I mean to say that I think the show would be dramatically improved if it were less gory, but that maybe I'm wrong and they are upping the ante in lieu of whatever story-telling magic that made the show so great to begin with.

    I also don't mean to say that the most recent episode is necessarily a sign of society's moral decay, but I'm saying that the show is taking things farther than I find acceptable, despite their full awareness of the enormous, growing audience it draws in. I can't support it, and I wonder at which point others start to feel the same if not after
    seeing the most beloved, least morally corrupt character have his ....ing head smashed to bits and pieces by a baseball bat for next to no reason while his friends and family looked on in utter horror.


    No, presidential elections and TV ratings aren't perfectly symmetrical examples, but that wasn't the point I was making. I'm saying: what criteria must be met for a person, thing, idea, body of work, etc. to occupy our highest platforms (president, most popular tv show, most successful company, most subscribed to blog, etc.)? The analogy works, because the Walking Dead is at the top of the food chain as far as Art goes. In terms of viewership, budget, and franchise/merchandise, it's easily the biggest ongoing art project (barring Star Wars), exclusively because of its growing fan base. It's been elevated to that position by popular demand. The important idea here is simply that we are putting more energy behind a very ugly project than any other. In my analogy, I'm saying the same thing: there is more energy put into supporting the ugliest ideas/person than any others.
     
  18. Vrollin

    Vrollin SS.org Regular

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    Aren't perfectly symmetrical? Symmetry didn't even come to mind, it was an example so far left of field and a horrible attempt at shifting the goal posts.
    What criteria? You mean ratings...
    Biggest ongoing art project? Bigger than any long running band? Bigger than any long running book series? You're trying to tell me that TWD is bigger than say, Michael Jackson, Harry Potter, Pokemon or The Wiggles? There are quite literally endless examples of art that are "happy/positive" that have bigger followings than shows like TWD, .... I'll bet Oprah and Ellen, both extremely positive people with their shows being their artforms, have bigger and longer running followers than TWD and one of them is over....
    To be honest, you come across as someone who is simply pissed that they lost one of their favourite characters and knowing that you can't bring them back want to just stomp your feet and attempt to ruin everyone else's time...
     
  19. blacai

    blacai SS.org Regular

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    Actually I think MTV and others(I don't know about america...) have TV Shows and sh*** stuff with a lot of more viewers than TWD.

    Just because TWD community uses more internet doesn't mean they are more than others.
     
  20. Adam Of Angels

    Adam Of Angels The GAS Man Contributor

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    You're not seeing the correlation in my analogy, perhaps because you're choosing to criticize what I'm saying instead, but it is there.

    The Walking Dead is the most watched cable TV show of all time, and has had the most ratings of any cable TV show for several years in a row. In terms of scripted dramas, when you consider viewership, budget, and franchise, it's the biggest ongoing, current art project. If we flex the definition of "ongoing art project" a bit, we can split hairs, but the Walking Dead is the biggest show on TV. Let's be serious: we are splitting hairs here anyway. The Walking Dead is HUGE - what happens on that show reaches more people than most other mediums. It's held in very high regard, and is as big as it is because many people support it. What I'm saying here isn't effected by Pokemon being more popular. I shouldn't have to explain this for a third time, but my point is that it's concerning that our most supported and beloved projects, ideas, and things are ugly. Or rather, at least our most beloved TV show is.

    Also, considering that I never said anything about being upset that my favorite character is dead, your last sentence is a hard reach. I'm not talking about that at all, and if you're getting that from what I'm saying, you're not putting what I'm saying together. It's late, and I'm tired of repeating myself, so I'm going to leave the discussion open to anyone who is willing to actual read what I've said here. Everybody else is free to keep enjoying the show and whatnot.
     

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