The Role of Government (Formerly Net Neutrality Thread)

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by KnightBrolaire, Dec 14, 2017.

  1. StevenC

    StevenC SS.org Regular

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    It's literally the opposite, because in every other country in the world where governments intervene in healthcare prices are lower than the USA.

    Another comparable example is that if a doctor prescribes a name brand medication, a pharmacy won't give you a generic. In the NHS for example, cost reduction is important so when I am prescribed Nurofen, I am given generic ibuprofen, because the regulation is to give out cheaper generics where available.

    The moral of the story is that running utilities and basic rights for profit results in higher prices, because lo and behold, people need water and medication.
     
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  2. Spaced Out Ace

    Spaced Out Ace 0 0 1 0 0 6 5 0 3\

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    Of course you could always be throttled, but they'd have to try and hide it, and if you complained, more than likely stop it until a later time when they throttle you again.
     
  3. Spaced Out Ace

    Spaced Out Ace 0 0 1 0 0 6 5 0 3\

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    Well, my speeds per a speed test seemed to be working just fine, yet certain websites and services were running piss poor. But you're right, it's not the best way to determine such, but it confirmed my thoughts regarding why, for instance, YouTube was running like shit yet I was getting typical speed test results.
     
  4. Unleash The Fury

    Unleash The Fury SS.org Regular

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    Lower healthcare prices at the cost of what though? 50% of your paycheck going to income taxes for as long as you shall live in said country.
     
  5. StevenC

    StevenC SS.org Regular

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    The guarantee of not being bankrupt if I develop an illness completely at random, and not being extorted by health insurance companies. And not to get to personal, but I'm super glad my two week stay in hospital as a 4 year old, and my pending spinal surgery plus week long hospital visit is covered.

    We also have the best education system in the world here in Northern Ireland, for free.
     
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  6. Hollowway

    Hollowway Extended Ranger

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    In theory, having the government step out of this, and let the free market decide, is good. It's a very libertarian view (hence the Ron Paul connection), but libertarianism is one of those things that can't be done piecemeal. Yes, net net neutrality is not an ideal solution, because it requires government control, and we all agree that the government cannot be trusted to always do the right thing. However, repealing net neutrality does NOT result in a free market economy online. The fact is, the government is ALREADY subsidizing the companies that stand to gain the most from the repeal of NN. The telcos have received over $200 billion from the US government as it is. Ostensibly to have provided fiber to us all. But that never happened. So, Ron Paul and the libertarians can claim that NN is bad because the government shouldn't be involved, but the government already IS involved. It's hardly a free market when the US government is giving some companies $200 billion in free money. Take that away from them, and then sure, you can repeal NN. But no level playing field, no free market.
     
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  7. narad

    narad SS.org Regular

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    btw, let's not throw around bullshit figures. You're trying to support an argument with bullshit. The average UK citizen pays a 20% income tax.
     
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  8. StevenC

    StevenC SS.org Regular

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    Nor is there even a 50% tax bracket or the possibility to pay a 50% effective tax rate.
     
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  9. Unleash The Fury

    Unleash The Fury SS.org Regular

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    I never mentioned UK. Sorry for not bothering to look where you lived.
     
  10. StevenC

    StevenC SS.org Regular

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    Did you even read earlier comment mentioning that I made use of the NHS for prescriptions or just one paragraph?
     
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  11. narad

    narad SS.org Regular

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    It doesn't really matter. 20% income tax rate for the average citizen, free healthcare. Really flies in the face of the American story of how it's somehow not possible to manage to put it under regulation, without insurance providers, and without that competition all the medical costs would skyrocket, and ...hmm... is that starting to sound like something a else? Even something...on topic?
     
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  12. Spaced Out Ace

    Spaced Out Ace 0 0 1 0 0 6 5 0 3\

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    Yeah, enough about healthcare and taxes. Take it somewhere else.
     
  13. Unleash The Fury

    Unleash The Fury SS.org Regular

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    I hope the care is good wherever you live. I know people that live in canada that come to the US for healthcare because its better and you dont have to wait in line to get treated, especially to see a specialist.

    Nonetheless, id rather pay 0% income tax and have affordable healthcare ideally.
     
  14. narad

    narad SS.org Regular

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    I'm not sure how I'd feel if I had something like cancer, but in all other experiences the UK system has completely trounced the US one in terms of convenience and quality of care.

    Much like the 50% income tax, I suspect a lot of stories of canadians seeking US healthcare are politically-motivated fabrications.
     
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  15. Spaced Out Ace

    Spaced Out Ace 0 0 1 0 0 6 5 0 3\

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    What does healthcare have to do with Net Neutrality?
     
  16. narad

    narad SS.org Regular

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    They're both domains where there is debate about the extent to which government should regulate such services, which everyone needs, and the costs to the consumer under various regulation schemes. It also serves as a counter-example to much of the logic put forth by the anti-NN crowd, i.e., that a more free market will benefit the consumer by bringing costs down and more directly matching services to the customer.

    So like... a fair bit.
     
  17. Unleash The Fury

    Unleash The Fury SS.org Regular

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    On the flipside, id rather not see anymore cell towers around. Lol
     
  18. Spaced Out Ace

    Spaced Out Ace 0 0 1 0 0 6 5 0 3\

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    I think what might be good for health care is not necessarily the same for the internet. It's still off-topic.

    Oh, and a lot of the anti-NN crowd thinks it has something to do with Facebook, Google, and Twitter being able to censor conservatives or some shit.
     
  19. thraxil

    thraxil cylon

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    As an American who currently lives in the UK and has previously lived in the Netherlands, yes, the healthcare is better over here. My SO was just diagnosed by a UK doc with a condition that's been bothering her for her entire adult life and that US doctors missed for a good twenty years. Total cost: 250 GBP. That's only because she decided to pay out of pocket and skip the queue (since she had travel plans over the holidays). Yes, things can be slow here, but like the US, you *also* can pay money to speed it up. The only difference there is that the amount you have to pay is far, far less. And, yeah, our taxes here are slightly higher, but pretty close to what we paid in the US.

    In the US, 643000 people go bankrupt every year over medical bills. Over here, that just isn't a thing that happens.

    https://www.snopes.com/643000-bankruptcies-in-the-u-s-every-year-due-to-medical-bills/

    In NL, it was even more extreme. Our taxes were higher there (but still not that bad), but man, _everything_ was better there. Public transport, health care, the streets are better maintained. And a good chunk of those taxes go towards a pension. It's hard to understand if you haven't lived there yourself, but the time I lived there was the most stress-free of my life. It's a huge burden off your mind knowing that there's pretty much no way you can end up destitute. It allows you to make life choices that aren't based on fear.
     
  20. Demiurge

    Demiurge Intrepid Jackass

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    Not quite sure if I'm boned-up on the political metaphysics in play here, but I'd tend to believe that while the idea of fewer regulations sounds great, it really only works when companies show they are capable of acting in good faith.

    Knowing my ISP/cable provider... well, if we're also supposed to believe that ISPs will be free to drive innovation without somehow rising their rates to pay for it- I'll really only expect one miracle at a time.
     

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