The POD recording tips, tricks, and eq-ing thread

Discussion in 'Gear & Equipment' started by 7 Dying Trees, Sep 3, 2008.

  1. wildchild

    wildchild SS.org Regular

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    thats a good idea but it seems no one responds to this thread :(
     
  2. cfrank

    cfrank SS.org Regular

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    I don't think it's worth it creating a thread about this, so i'll put it here. I just got an POD UX1 last week and it's pretty cool, though i'm having some noise problems. I disconnect every instrument cable, but i still get noise. This only happens with metal/loud volume, but is it supposed to be like this? There's no input connected, but there's noise coming from the output like some bad shielding is going on.

    [​IMG]
     
  3. Raxa

    Raxa om nom nom

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    maybe PC problem? not POD?
     
  4. Lukifer

    Lukifer Need more gain

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    Wow I have alot of pages of back reading to do!!

    I just got an XT Live so need tips and tricks!
     
  5. benfan

    benfan Why So Serious?

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    Fellas,

    Iv downloaded a preset from a user on SS.ORG (i think) - Heres a link to the video



    It sounds nice and crunchy, but im having problems getting it to really grunt and give me some nice heavy low end for palm muted riffs. Iv tried boosting around 200hz and tweaking around with the settings but im having no luck. Anyone got any ideas? Im looking for a Sylosis type tone, nice and tight but with a heavy chuggy low end.

    Im gonna use this as a tone reference



    Btw, im using a Les Paul custom with EMG 81b/85n.

    Thanks for any help, or if you could point me in the direction of any other presets i could look into.



    EDIT - Sorry about the screwed up post. Didnt realise that the forum embedded links!
     
  6. Lukifer

    Lukifer Need more gain

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    Your lead tone is awesome!!! I love it! But I know what your saying about the bottom end. If you had the Metal Shop pack I would say replace one amp with either L6 Big Bottom or Chunk Chunk. But you have the eq and compressor going so besides boosting it Im at a loss.
     
  7. Angus Clark

    Angus Clark SS.org Regular

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    Is it possible to upload patches onto this thread? I'd be happy to share some that i'm quite proud of, and are based upon the above tone. I think they're an improvement.
     
  8. niffnoff

    niffnoff Just another SunBro

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    Upload em to custom tone buddy, and just link us to em, or alternatively upload a .rar file to megaupload and share here. :yesway:
     
  9. benfan

    benfan Why So Serious?

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    I do have the metal shop pack so i might try that. That patch leaves alot of room for the bass to fill out in the mix, but i want some dense and meaty bottom end from my guitar tracks.

    It isnt my preset btw, the guy who made that video created it! (dont want people to think im taking credit for someone elses good work)

    I feel it might help to add that im not using the Pad input on my UX2 even though i have actives in my LP. I go in through the Norm.
     
  10. pitbulltodd

    pitbulltodd SS.org Regular

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  11. Angus Clark

    Angus Clark SS.org Regular

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  12. meambobbo

    meambobbo SS.org Regular

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    Someone asked about the HD. I have some recent patches here:
    Index of /podhd/Metal_Xmas

    Tone demo of older patches here (These tones aren't too great, I recommend trying the ones from the prior link but I thought I'd post them just in case it helps anyone):
    Tone Demo

    30+ page Tone Guide I wrote for high gain (specific to the Pod HD but a lot of it will apply to the XT/X3 or even real amps):
    http://foobazaar.com/podhd/Meambobbo's Pod HD Guide.pdf

    X3vsHD comparison clips with links to patches used:
    X3vsHD by meambobbo on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free

    As for some general tips:
    Boosting around 800-1200HZ before your distortion will bring out the djent.

    Cutting around 100-300HZ before your distortion will reduce any muddiness or flub in the tone.

    To find fizzy/hissy spots, start with an EQ that is boosting a narrow frequency range. As you play, move through the frequency range, starting at 3kHZ and moving upwards from there. Find the spot where tone sounds noisiest and harshest. Then try to make as small of a cut there as possible. You don't want to completely remove it from the tone, just make sure it is de-emphasized to the point where it doesn't stand out. If you totally kill the frequencies, your tone will sound like it's missing something. I usually cut around 4.5 kHZ on the Pod HD, and additionally around 3.8 kHZ if I can. On the X3/XT, I like to cut around 9.5 kHZ.

    I like to cut around 600 or 650 HZ to make the tone sound more metal and scooped, but if you cut too much your tone disappears, especially in a mix. Try to make the cut as narrow as possible, and only cut a little bit - don't completely kill those frequencies.

    I've found the best tone from the onboard cab/mic sims comes by combining a bright cab that has good upper mids and high end definition and clarity with the SM57 on axis mic with a cab that has good low end punch and lower mids warmth with a dynamic mic. For the PodHD, it's the Treaplate 4x12 + SM57 on axis mic and the XXL 4x12 with 409 Dynamic. For the XT/X3, it's the Brit V30 4x12 or T75 4x12 with SM57 on axis plus the Treadplate 4x12 with 421 Dynamic. I believe this is because the IR's on modelers aren't as high resolution as IR's usable in a DAW. Even the Axe-FX II can only support 2,048 sample IR's, about 1/5 the size of the DAW versions. Axe-FX Ultra is half that. I assume Pod HD is around that size, and XT/X3 is even lower. Digitech GSP1101 is 256 samples mono, 128 stereo. I find this means you'll only get good definition on one part of the frequency range, and the rest sounds washed out, missing, or noisy. So combining cabs/mics helps dials in a full range sound with clarity and richness.

    For dual tones, I like to use the same amp on both tones, only varying the cab/mic. Mixing amps can cause a tone that sounds like the amps are "fighting" each other, causing interference and making the tone sound washed out. I'll often even use the exact same settings on both amps. I also make sure both amps are panned to center to truly mix them. Be sure to adjust the volume of one amp to get a balanced blend of both amps - depending on the amp and cab/mic, one is usually a little louder than the other for the same settings.

    For the Pod HD, you can get a great Mesa/Boogie Mark IV tone from the Uber model by putting a Studio EQ in front the amp. I cut 150 HZ completely and I boost 800 HZ completely. The low cut sucks out all the muddiness. The mids boost dials in the djent.

    I have A/B'ed the Mississippi Criminal (5150 II) model on the Xt/X3 to the pre-amp of a real 6505+. I thought they sounded VERY close. It is my favorite amp model in the XT/X3. The Angel P-ball (ENGL Powerball) model is also awesome with a Screamer in front. And the Diamondplate (Triple Recto) is the best Recto sound I think, but it sounds a little too buzzy without a Screamer in front. The Uber is also great, but it's not as djenty as I like. Big Bottom is great, but I find it's too boomy - be sure to trim some lows if you use it. I think it sounds almost identical to the Mississippi Criminal model but has too much low end.

    On the HD, with the Screamer, turning drive to 0% won't completely clean up the tone. This can make a lead tone sound less smooth than you want. I like to use the Classic Distortion instead, because it's completely clean at 0%. Just think the filter control is opposite of what you might expect - turning down adds more bite, while turning up is less djent and more smooth, full, warm mids sound.

    Don't use a noise gate unless you have to. If you do, don't set it so high so that it completely sucks all the noise out the tone - just try to reduce the amount of noise it lets through. This will preserve a natural-sounding attack and decay, rather than an off-putting stutter type sound.

    EQ is great, but it won't get you everywhere. If you try to dial in a frequency via EQ that isn't there to begin with, you are only boosting noise, not tone. I prefer to start with dual tones and good cab/mic choices, then EQ in a more subtle fashion, usually making narrow cuts to suck out the "warts" or wide subtle boosts/cuts to set the overall brightness/darkness or mid-emphasis.

    For the HD, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE read the "Clipping" section of the pdf guide posted above. I don't know how many people I've met who thought the HD sucked because it was harsh or whatever, when they were getting clipping. This isn't as simple as making sure you don't boost the shit out of the signal. There's no clipping meters. You can clip the input A->D convertor, the internal signal resolution, external gear, and individual effects inside the Pod even when you aren't clipping the overall signal level. It can be very deceptive. I provide a detailed patch-building process to prevent ever getting clipping.

    If you are building a patch, the ABSOLUTE BEST thing you can do is find an artist whose tone is the closest to what you want to achieve, and finding a section in their music where the guitars are playing without any other instruments. If you can find one where it's only one guitar, not a double-track or quad-tracking, even better. Even if this clip is only 2 seconds long, it's an incredible reference point.

    Use headphones or re-amp to find your tone, especially if you are trying to dial in tone at lower volumes (which is generally a bad idea). The acoustic tone from your electric guitar will mislead you as to what your recorded/amplified tone actually sounds like. Using the HD's looper pre-position is a great way to dial in a tone. Or you can record a dry guitar, output it to a mp3 player, then play the clip on repeat from your mp3 player into your Pod. I use a 1/8" male to 1/8" male cable into a 1/8" female to 1/4" male converter into the guitar input of the Pod. You may need to adjust the gain, because your mp3 player's output level may vary from your guitar, but that's a simple adjustment. It's a good process that works.

    The best process for making a patch is to use the Edit/Gearbox computer editor. Start by dialing in a tone you like. Rather than editing that patch, Ctrl+mouse drag the patch to the next patch slot to copy it. Make your changes to the copy. Now you can A/B your edits to your initial patch. I'll repeat this process anywhere from 4 - 20 times before I finalize my patch (no stoner reference intended). You can compare a number of cab/mic options, as well as EQ'ing tweaks, or compare effects models.

    For the HD, I like to use the Full amp models and turn down the "Master Volume" deep-editing parameter (to 10-30%) rather than use the pre-amp models. For the J800 model, you can get a good power amp distortion with Mater Volume in the 60-70% range, and turn down the Bias and Bias X parameters. This is how I get that nasty EVH distortion that sounds like the amp is being pummeled.

    The only high gain amps on the XT I like are in the Metal Pack, so be sure to factor in the cost of that addition to your price if you are contemplating buying.
     
    Deadnightshade likes this.
  13. Stealthdjentstic

    Stealthdjentstic Banned

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    Best..new member ever.
     
  14. MiPwnYew

    MiPwnYew SS.org Regular

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    THIS. :agreed:
     
  15. dantel666

    dantel666 SS.org Regular

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    That was quite the tutorial. Haven't looked through everything but what I have read has already made my tone a lot better. thanks!
     
  16. meambobbo

    meambobbo SS.org Regular

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    This is a great thread - I agree with a lot of the info in the initial post and am just glad to make some contribution. I need to get my new tones recorded and post a new tone demo. They sound much better than the older ones - they have way more punch.
     
  17. Lukifer

    Lukifer Need more gain

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    Awesome info and gives me some direction for dialing in tones.

    My question is what is the best approach to an XT, because I cant dual amp and switch cabs like you said. On limited on effects and eq and all that. So whats the best approach on dialing In that sweet tone on an XT?

    I do have the metal shop pack so I have all the good amps. Just need to bring the best out of those amps.
     
  18. meambobbo

    meambobbo SS.org Regular

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    Really your best option in that case is to run to a laptop and use an external IR or run to a power amp and speaker cab. If you don't want to do that, I would stick with the SM57 off axis or 421 Dynamic mics and test out the Brit and Treadplate 4x12's. I've also heard ppl got good results with the 2x12's but I don't think I ever did. Maybe the Matchless?

    The best amp IMO is the Mississippi Criminal. The Big Bottom is basically the same model but with much more punch and low end - I found it to be too much, so I stuck with the Mississippi Criminal, but you could use the EQ to tame it. Certain cab/mic combinations would likely roll off the bass a bit as well. Other good amps I find are the Angel Pball and Diamondplate. I don't think I've used the Chunk Chunk, but I see a lot of people endorse it. Uber is pretty good too. The Diety models are Diezel. Not sure which is which, but they sound ok if you like that kind of tone.

    If an amp initially sounds a bit buzzy or muddy and not djent enough, stick a Screamer in front. Set the drive all the way down and turn the gain up. That should help make it sound tighter. I find most of the amps are improved by doing this, but the Mississippi Criminal and Big Bottom are already quite djenty.

    The EQ control has a high pass, a low pass, and two peak/valleys. I like to use the shelves to brighten or darken the tone to make it sound more balanced. I boost both so it actually works as a small mids cut. Sometimes I'll also use a peak/valley to cut around 650 HZ. I find that's the real nasty spot in the mids that makes the tone honk. Just don't cut too much. The other peak/valley can be used to dial out a fizzy spot in the high end. Boost the control and slowly move it upwards from 3kHZ until you find the fizziest noisiest spot you can. You'll know you've found it when you play a bunch of different power chords and they all sound like the same fizzy/hissy sound. It's noise, not tone. Dial it down but don't kill it, just make sure it's not noticeable. If you are ok with the mids without using a peak/valley on them, you can dial out an additional fizzy spot. If you feel like this kills some of your high end, dial it back in with the treble/presence controls or the low pass of the EQ.

    If you give me an idea of a band whose tone you are shooting close to sounding like, I'd be happy to make a patch. I still have my XT.
     
  19. Lukifer

    Lukifer Need more gain

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    Awesome!! Thanks for the info. I'll try it out tonight when I get home from work.

    Currently I run my XT Live into the power amp section of my 6505+ into an Avatar 4x12 with V30s if that helps. That's for my live sound and jamming with a band and all that. But I record on my computer a lot so i want good time there too. Since I do run it through a cab should I turn cab sims off when its run into my stack??
     
  20. meambobbo

    meambobbo SS.org Regular

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    yes, I always use "no cabinet" when I run to a power amp and guitar speaker cab, but I know some people who like to run the cab/mic modeling even with such a setup. It really depends on how bright your guitar speaker is. With a 4x12 loaded with V30's, I'm sure you'd prefer "no cabinet" - that's how I ran my rig when I had a 4x12 with the same speakers. Now I have a 1x12 with a V30 (don't laugh - it's all I need!). I still use "no cabinet".

    Don't be afraid to make two sets of patches - you're not likely going to get identical tone for a patch "live" vs. "direct" just by adding or removing the cabinet/mic modeling. When running live, there's less fizziness to to the tone. I find the cab/mic modeling is where a lot of it comes from. Also, the cab/mic modeling is going to change the way your tone gets EQ'ed, so you will likely have to use different settings to compensate.
     

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