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Discussion in 'Dealers & Group Buys' started by darren, Jan 23, 2010.
I believe the saying is, "A fool and his money are soon parted."
You underestimate the stupidity of people on the internet
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yeah, I was trying to be optimistic. Considering people there are people still buying etherials I guess he has a fair chance of stealing more $$$
Well hey, if everyone who wants a refund has a refund, then he hasn't stolen any money. I'm all for ragging on a guy when he's acting unethically, but if everyone's been refunded...
So has anyone gotten their guitar yet???????????
I have absolutely no confidence in Darren whatsoever. If what he's saying is legitimate and everyone that requested a refund has one, then I'm happy to credit him for doing the right thing, even if it is drastically overdue.
That said, what is his plan moving forward to prevent this from occurring again? So far there's absolutely no indication that anything at all has changed, and there's still a very real chance that he'll stock up on orders again, string everyone along just as he had and we end up with a new round of people with more money than sense on the hook for Decibel builds that are never to be delivered.The comments on his post clearly indicate there's people willing to throw money at him.
I do truly hope that Darren is able to pull through his mental health issues, I sympathise with him there and I do hope he gets the help he needs and get back on track, I just don't have a great deal of confidence in Darren's ability to successfully run an honest, reliable business.
That hasn't been 100% confirmed yet, and this is different. He legitimately had no consequence for the wasted time and stress caused to his clients, and good on him he refunded people. But he should absolutely get .... for what he did.
You wouldn't just forgive and forget Bernie for all that he did with that debacle. No reason to assume Darren's legitimately turned over a new leaf because a single person said they got their refund. That's a HUGE leap from a post to following through with your word, when historically this man has a 100% failure rate with keeping his word.
I'm not saying he turned over a new leaf. I'm saying he's not a thief, by more-or-less the definition of that word. The important part of his post isn't about his plan for the future - who cares - it's him actually having refunded those who were asking for refunds.
Regarding his plan, it's nice because any failure on his part to deliver only affects him, in not having generated any completed guitars to post for sale. So if he sticks to his plan (just in terms of how he operates, not that he can stick to the delivery goals of his plan), things should be pretty good.
Time will tell, I'm just a gigantic skeptic especially about guys like these. But people should realize that he has to actually keep his word for this to go how he's outlined. So far one person said they got their refund.
He said he has refunded everyone who asked for it, past tense. So he is either lying about the current state of things (much worse than just being habitually over-optimistic), or everyone is all set as far as money goes.
Again Darren did mention in the post going back to "building guitars one at a time and selling them when they are done"
I definitely think thats the way to go and think its VERY important he sticks to that for at least a few years.
Certainly not trying to defend all the BS that has gone on with decibel up to this point, im just saying if he wants to rebuild his buisness he seems to have the started with the right idea on how he needs to go about it (Refund customer's, No more taking $$ upfront).
About the "no consequences" for the time and stress he caused people, I mean your right in a way but I think most people in the situation would be satisfied with a "sorry I messed up bad, here is your money back". Thats not to say they forgive to the point of ever wanting to do buisness with Decibel again but holding onto alot of anger beyond that doesnt seem healthy.
I honestly wish Darren the best as I still love the Javelin shape and would still consider buying (not custom ordering) a guitar from him.... someday.
The building one-at-a-time model can avoid scandal, but if a builder struggles to complete a single instrument on time, that can't be a viable business. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this wasn't a matter of 25 orders taken and 20 guitars + 5 mea culpas delivered- more like the other way around, right? Maybe he needs to focus on building for the sake of learning how to build and put the "reboot" on the shelf for now.
Regardless, I hate to see someone fail (and I hate to see people get ripped-off). It takes real stones to place a big bet on yourself, but it also takes the same to realize your limitations.
Some of us (11 people) that had deposits with him have a small group on FB.. I do not know how many of us had requested the refund, but can confirm that 5 of us got the refund through Paypal, so it looks that Darren really refunded everyone who wanted their money back...
As far as the stress and the years that have passed, I agree that things could have gone differently, but in the end, getting my money back is what really matters...
I still think that his designs are great and hope he can get out of that mess... Now the only thing to do is wait and see what he does... Has long has he keeps selling completed instruments, I don't see a problem..
Also got my full refund. The whole situation is inexcusable but at least for once he didn't just cut and run. All I really feel like saying.
Good stuff guys, then if he actually did it that is what matters. That was my main concern, him saying something to keep people off his back for awhile and dodging commitments again. But if everyone who wanted out was given that opportunity, then hardly much more I can say about it.
While its certainly good that hes actually refunding people, lets not forget that Darren willingly deceived people for 3-4 years+ for what is essentially an interest free loan. Darren is still a total piece of ....e in my books and I would hope he never takes a deposit again after this.
I have no doubt he wouldn't have returned a dime if people weren't pressuring him, he has consistently ignored his customer base and stepped on anyone he could (like jillard, and bowes)
This is a rare bit of better news, but anyone sticking with their builds is crazy to me. Go ahead and bookmark this page as I suspect it will be referenced too many times over the next 3-5 years.
I get the mental burden that a wait list can create, but, seriously, when was the last time he even finished a single guitar? Hadn't it been determined that there's less than 10 guitars he's completed ever?
He should refund everyone, do some builds, put them up for sale to the people he screwed over and definitely owes Bowes and all of them a massive public apology. Cleaning up the complaints isn't fixing that problem. If he wants to move forward, clear the list first, show progress, build solid guitars.
Fantastic if he's refunding people. Obviously other outcomes might have been better, but this outcome certainly isn't the worst!
While this certainly doesn't excuse his horrible behavior as a businessman these past few years, considering that I was quite convinced that mass refunds would never be issued, I'm still quite happy to be proven wrong, if for nothing else than the sake of those affected.