The most stable non-locking-nut, full-floating tremolo step-up?

Discussion in 'Pickups, Electronics & General Tech' started by Sonic Anomaly, Sep 10, 2018.

  1. Sonic Anomaly

    Sonic Anomaly Sound or Music?

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    (I've done a little research, and I'm sure there are already threads addressing this, but)
    I'm about to start a full-custom build, and I'm wanting something equivalent in functionality to a standard Floyd rose set-up, but substituting a locking-nut for with locking tuners (sperzels?), and a nice graphite or some-such nut (with lubrication). Govan's Charvel set-up is close to what I'm after, but I'd like fine-tuners at bridge.

    It may be wishful thinking, but the point is a setup that can tolerably handle heavy Vai-style usage (minus drastic divebombs), but also behind the nut bends and quick (drop-D) tunings when a tremol-no's engaged.
    So, what would be your suggestions be for the best possible set-up, with that in mind?
     
  2. MaxOfMetal

    MaxOfMetal Likes trem wankery. Super Moderator

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    You'll never get double-locking stability with a single locking setup. Even the best cut, and constantly cleaned and lubed, nut will impart some friction if it's doing it's job to hold the strings in place.

    The closest you'll get is using a high quality trem with locking studs, like the Gotoh 1996T, a GraphTech nut cut exquisitely that's lubed, a headstock that provides as straight of string pull possible, and locking tuners that keep excess string winds to a minimum, or regular tuners if you know how to wind them right.

    Stuff to avoid: string trees, headstocks tilted back too far, headstocks with extreme angles, cheap nuts, zero frets. Basically anything that's going to increase friction.
     
  3. JustinRhoads1980

    JustinRhoads1980 SS.org Regular

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    The trem systems on the JP EBMM Majestys are really nice and tight! I can do a bunch a crazy stuff on it and it will still go flat or sharp a little bit, do it enough and it will become noticeable.

    Honestly, if you want something reliable, my guy, I would either go with an Original Floyd Rose or a Kahler or go with a evertune bridge. Seriously you set those up and have it done precisely it is perfect! I have setup my floyd rose guitars and the only time I have to really adjust the fine tuners at all is after I have spent hours constantly grinding on the whammy bar. If I don't use the whammy bar a lot I can 1-2 weeks without touching the fine tuners whatsoever to make an adjustment.

    Dude get yourself a floyd and put a d-tuna on it for the drop D stuff. Honestly to have all of those things and have super duper reliable tuning stability is very wishful thinking. You will have to make sacrifices on certain things. I believe if you put a d-tuna on a floyd you can't pull up on it. If you don't then the behind the nut bends don't matter since you can do that on the floyd. Really prioritize which of those requirements are ESSENTIAL! If all of them are then I guess you are out of luck in some areas in regards to going with a floyd.
     
  4. Sonic Anomaly

    Sonic Anomaly Sound or Music?

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    Perhaps a second question/alternative:

    Are there any locking-nuts out there that can be quickly clamped on or off, and when not clamped, the nut has low friction? That way, I could lock it while the tremol-no is not engaged, and unlock it, when I lock the bridge down. Is there anything that's fast enough to unlock, and doesn't have 'loose' pieces, when unlocked?

    [edit] are there perhaps other nuts options like these? http://www.billedwards.com/inventions.html


     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2018
  5. odibrom

    odibrom .

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    @MaxOfMetal how about rolling nuts in that full floating + locking tuners setup...? don't these nuts deliver optimal friction-less string movement?

    Having this said, a well set up floyd rose system (I want to believe that Kahler's are also top notch) is spot on in tuning stability.
     
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  6. JustinRhoads1980

    JustinRhoads1980 SS.org Regular

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    I believe there is nothing like this out there my friend. Why are you so against the locking nut????
     
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  7. MaxOfMetal

    MaxOfMetal Likes trem wankery. Super Moderator

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    I've yet to encounter a roller nut that didn't have to be absolutely babied to function properly.

    Not to mention they can be limiting when it comes to string size.
     
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  8. Sonic Anomaly

    Sonic Anomaly Sound or Music?

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    I don't have anything against locking nuts, I'm just doing research to see if there are plausible alternatives. I very well may end up using a standard locking nut like I have on my other guitars. Besides, did you even follow the link? The Bill Edwards nut looks like it might work, to clamp/unclamp--though it looks terribly bulky.

    Also, I stumbled across this kind of thing:
    https://reverb.com/item/242582-fend...later-1980-s-maple-rose-neck-chrome-lever-nut
    Wonder if anyone makes something like this now days, because it looks like it may cover the right bases.
     
  9. NateFalcon

    NateFalcon Party’s over

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    No offense, but these kind of “solutions” present other problems...you’re not the first person to try to get around a Floyd nut (why, I’ll never know...) -your proposal is less than ideal and I’ll never understand the mindset behind how far people will go to mod a tried and true system and end up side-stepping...at best. I’ve read over your posts and am completely confused as to why locking and unlocking the nut “on the fly” is necessary? -A tremel-no’s function isn’t centered around locking and unlocking the nut aside from major tuning problems when you UNLOCK the nut...
    Also, locking tuners (Sperzel, Gotoh) function differently and serve a different purpose than locking nuts -none of this will compensate for the loss of half of the effectiveness of a double locking system being removed. Some of these gimmicky products aren’t popular for a reason -because they don’t work well...
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2018
  10. spudmunkey

    spudmunkey SS.org Regular

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    kahler fliplock, maybe? I don't know if it would actually work like you are hoping, but it *might*. I've never used one.
     
  11. Sonic Anomaly

    Sonic Anomaly Sound or Music?

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    "A tremel-no’s function isn’t centered around locking and unlocking the nut aside from major tuning problems when you UNLOCK the nut..."

    This is a good point, though I think you may have 'side-stepped' the reason I initially inquired (haha): I would lock the bridge to a fixed position with the tremol-no, then unlock the nut, (with some fine tuning adjustments) and within a couple seconds the guitar would then function as a fixed bridge guitar, allowing several alternate tunings (drop-d, drop-c, double drop-d, etc.) and also behind-the-nut-bends (which I'm finding have a lot more potential than mere gimmickry).
    I have double-locking and fixed bridge guitars, but I'm just thinking through possibilities of combination. May not be ideal, and perhaps I should have been more explicit about being willing to compromise.
     
  12. NateFalcon

    NateFalcon Party’s over

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    I like your attitude lol...you’re a talented dude if you can change tunings on the fly that fast. I was meaning the products themselves can be gimmicky -not your intent or playing style. Trying to cover all bases on tremolos can be like balancing on a bowling ball lol...
     
  13. Andrew Lloyd Webber

    Andrew Lloyd Webber Super Duper Moduraturr

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    I wish a locking nut was the only thing holding me back from realizing my potential.
     
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  14. wedge_destroyer

    wedge_destroyer SS.org Regular

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    Seems to be bulky modernised version of:

    With more mounting options
     
  15. Phrase

    Phrase SS.org Regular

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  16. Shask

    Shask SS.org Regular

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    I recently got some PRS guitars, and have really enjoyed not having a locking nut. It has really shown me how much they increase the string tension, and bendability of the strings. This just makes the strings easier to play than guitars with a locking nut.

    That being said, I still have my Floyd guitars for when I want to go full Dimebag or Vai.
     
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  17. NateFalcon

    NateFalcon Party’s over

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    I agree on that front, but removing an integral part of the system still creates tuning issues that (to me) isn’t worth trying to fight...
     
  18. Sonic Anomaly

    Sonic Anomaly Sound or Music?

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    I can definitely understand your position. In fact, I dislike tremolos in general, because they are a pain. But I feel like I lose a third dimension in my playing without one, and even with one (per the current situation) I feel limited. I'm not going to be playing sets with this guitar--its for recording essentially, so I'm willing to deal with a little more 'temperamental' tuning.
     
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  19. NateFalcon

    NateFalcon Party’s over

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    I totally get it...I think those “tone vise” nuts might be the most solid looking product or a roller nut and some nice tuners might be your best compromise...if it’s just for recording you’ll just probably get used to tuning more often than a full locking setup
     
  20. Tone Vise

    Tone Vise SS.org Regular

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    Hey guys, Mark Hackett with Tone Vise here. I came across this post and would be happy to answer any questions you may have.
    There are two new videos on Youtube that may help.

    Keyless nut locks

    And the Pitch Shifter
     

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