The Lute - luth - luthier

Discussion in 'Jazz, Acoustic, Classical & Fingerstyle' started by hufschmid, Oct 16, 2009.

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  1. hufschmid

    hufschmid Banned

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    Luthier, originally this name was given to the lute maker - luth in french....

    Many guitar makers in french countries dont like to have people call them ''luthiers'' because of this historical reason but prefer to be named ''guitarier''

    Of course of our days its a more general name given to makers of string stroked instruments...

    I really want to get started playing this incredible instrument, so much different thypes..

    This is actually what started the extended rage instrument history...

    The building is a true miracle, the sound is incredible and gives a real athmosphere... :bowdown:

    Anyway, here are a few cool videos I found on internet which explain a little better about this incredible instrument, the ancestor of the guitar...

    First video is more of a technical explication about what is going on on the instrument...







    :bowdown::bowdown::bowdown:








    Now check this out!

    http://www.creazen.net/au-fil-du-son.html

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  2. TimSE

    TimSE Contributor

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    so cool

    the attention to detail is unreal! so beautifully made!

    why is he playing with fire in the last pic?
     
  3. hufschmid

    hufschmid Banned

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    Installing the gut frets...

    Check out the video you can see him do so...
     
  4. Mattmc74

    Mattmc74 Contributor

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    Very cool! :yesway:
     
  5. phaeded0ut

    phaeded0ut droooooneeeeeeeee!

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    Whoops, beat me to it, Patrick! I love that the particular one (last picture) has wooden frets on the body. One thing I'll say quickly concerning gut vs. nylon is that gut (I've used cat and deer) strings are that for a short time, they really sound awesome, but with temperature/humidity changes they go out of tune ludicrously quickly.

    I'd recommend going with nylon strings (I know, I know, it's not historical, but it is practical).

    Also, for giving it a go, take your favorite nylon strung guitar, and tune the 'g' string down a half-step to 'f#' and you'll be in a lute's standard tuning (minus the low E). They are pricey, so head's up.

    If you're looking to go fretless, check out an Oud:
    Najarian Music - oud (ud)(lute) builders since 1975 (If my memory servers, this is the same group that David Torn used for their electric ouds. If not, I dothly apologize!)

    For folks in the Minnesota (USA) area, here's a local luthier: Lute page

    Here's one of many more out of England:
    lutemaker.com

    Lute makers | Guitar Makers | Vihuelas Baroque Guitars Archlutes Chitarroni Theorbos Orpharions Lutemakers bandoras, citterns

    Gallery of lutes and guitars (Check out the parchment tiered rosettas)

    Miss my 10 and 1/2 course... sniff...
     
  6. hufschmid

    hufschmid Banned

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    I want this one, I would trade anytime for one of those babies

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  7. phaeded0ut

    phaeded0ut droooooneeeeeeeee!

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    Have to admit that I'm partial to this one with a few extras like the "Shaded English Yew" back... Frei model lute Very tasty!!!

    These were rather tasty, too:
    From Steve Barber and Sandi Harris ( Lute makers | Guitar Makers | Vihuelas Baroque Guitars Archlutes Chitarroni Theorbos Orpharions Lutemakers bandoras, citterns )
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    From Daniel Larson ( http://www.daniellarson.com ):
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    I just love the ribs on this one.

    If you get the chance, take a peak through the manufacturing section on Stephen Barber and Sandi Harris' site, I'd be interested to see/read how many folks use the older glues, varnishes, etc. , ... No ego involved, really... ;)
     
  8. hufschmid

    hufschmid Banned

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    Ervin Somogyi is the best ship carver in the world, check out this rosette he crafted on one of his lutes...

    He is also a lute maker :)

    This is sick! :nuts:

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  9. phaeded0ut

    phaeded0ut droooooneeeeeeeee!

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    Unbelievable! Calling his work gorgeous doesn't do it justice. Love it when you get those multi-depth curves in the carving work for these rosettes, even without the parchment or other fiddly-bits. Didn't Ervin Somogyi make a recreation lute wherein the rosetta was a round enclosure surrounding a wall perspective and ivy clinging to it? The "ivy" was then continued as very intricate inlay work from the rosetta.

    If you can get the chance, look at the way the ribs are done inside the body of a lute. Again, this skill-set is more akin to a ship wright (ship-builder) than a guitar-builder. I've not had a real chance to do some in-depth hunting for such pictures, and I'd be amazed if there wasn't sets of them posted somewhere. I know that there have been a book or two on the subject, especially in talking about the evolution of both wooden ships and lutes.

    Granted, Patrick is showing us the above $9000.00 per instrument luthiers and I'm showing the more "economy" crowd (or trying to). LOL!
     
  10. hufschmid

    hufschmid Banned

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    If you feel like spending some money you can always buy one of his handmade boxes :rolleyes:

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  11. phaeded0ut

    phaeded0ut droooooneeeeeeeee!

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    Breath-taking work. One final thing on the luthiers who use older glues and finishes, is the smell is totally different, too. Really love what he did on the middle box.
     
  12. hufschmid

    hufschmid Banned

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  13. phaeded0ut

    phaeded0ut droooooneeeeeeeee!

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    That's a pretty decent pricetag, it's about $936.47 + Shipping and Handling. It may be a student instrument, but that's not a bad way to start, and considering that you're more into the Medieval European and early Renaissance European music this is a damn near perfect fit for you, too. Not sure of what they're using for the gnarled wood, but the use of rosewood is a major plus.
     
  14. Apophis

    Apophis Banned

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    those instruments are so AWESOME :yesway:
     
  15. hufschmid

    hufschmid Banned

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    Imagine a solid body electric version......

    That would be totally innovative and sick :hbang:
     
  16. Fler

    Fler Òran Mór

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    These old instruments astound me. I spent hours yesterday in the Auckland War Memorial Museum staring at the old Lutes, Archlute (which they labelled a Theorbo inaccurately), Violins, and all sorts of things. A 7+7 string Viola D'Amore had me amazed. Hadn't been in there for years and now I knew what it contained I was shitting bricks at what I was looking at.

    I noticed you commented on that Tommie Anderson video (I think?) when I saw it earlier, Patrick. I watch it often, and am pondering how possible it is to transpose the piece for 8 string guitar...fucking love this shit!
     
  17. phaeded0ut

    phaeded0ut droooooneeeeeeeee!

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    Patrick,

    You read my mind! :) Could you imagine if it was beyond a 16 rib instrument with alternating woods? How much time it would take just to get the body to finish up, let alone the neck to body joint (would probably be a bit more modern with a dovetail, I think... Though I think something more akin to a hollowbody electric would really get a bit more out of the manufacturing changes. I see a Gibson ES-175D inspired guitar with 16-strings (dual course 8) and a sharp cutaway... Tiered parchment inside the "f-holes..." TASTY!


    Fler,

    Shouldn't be that terrible in transposition to an 8-string guitar. If they're using a 5 to 8-course lute, then you'll want to use standard tuning and drop the 'G' string down a half step to '"F#" and you'll be good to go for the majority of music out there. Sometimes the 'E' strings are dropped down a full step to 'D,' again, it isn't too terrible.

    For Theorbo music, you might find that you're having to do a bit more hopping around the fingerboard.
     
  18. hufschmid

    hufschmid Banned

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    I have no idea about what your talking when you talk about music theory :lol:

    But I personally dont like multiple ribbs, a nice traditional design which has flamed maple and ebony is really gorgeous.

    It must be a real crazy job to get perfect joints.

    I'm lucky to live next to one of the very best lute makers in europe, his name is Maurice Ottiger, I been to his place to visit him a few times and when you watch those guys build lutes its an other world :bowdown:

    The bastard lives in a chalet in the mountains and has his workshop in his house which means that because of the dry air in the mountains he has a perfect working climat! I need to place a deshumidifier all day long to control the athmosphere in my house...
     
  19. phaeded0ut

    phaeded0ut droooooneeeeeeeee!

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    Patrick,

    I'm still very amazed that he's not had a web site put up for himself, yet. Pretty sure you've shown me a fan-site. Granted, as it stands, he probably is not remotely hurting for work. Here's a question we've not asked, yet, ... does he teach? Have you ever thought about trying for one of his classes if he does?

    I do not disagree at all the work at bending all of the rather thin strips perfectly, let alone being able to take some flex into account is unreal. Then you start getting into the lamination work...

    Have to admit a curiosity of seeing one of these instruments given a slightly more modern twist to it... carbon graphite ribs and internal support structure, phenolic fingerboard, steel strings, etc. , ... ;) Not sure if alternating between carbon graphite body strips and wood strips would work out, but might be interesting.
     
  20. hufschmid

    hufschmid Banned

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    Ottiger is firmly against internet and will not accept any thype of promotion true internet, he is very conservative and keeps saying that everything you read on internet is crap...

    I also invited him to visit my website (yeah cause believe this or not he has an e-mail address and a computer... :idea:) and he spent 2 seconds on it because he thinks its made up and not by me......

    I dont know how he gets orders but his been a maker since 30 years now and is making a decent living so I guess he became so popular and has so much reputation that people automatically come to his place..

    The first name which comes in the mind of a player when he goes to europe for an expensive high class lute or guitar is Ottiger.... :shrug:

    Somebody did make up a page about him and he is not even aware about it.....

    He also has one of his customers who makes videos with a guitar he purshased...

    And no, I dont want to go and take building lessons with him, its a different fields and I'm not a conservative builder so I will never be able to follow rules and copy baroque instrument....


    I also contacted this player who never bothered to reply to me :)

    :woot: conservative world and purists... :)

    He plays an Ottiger here





    There is an Ottiger for sale on internet, owner bought it 7'000CHF - 6'800 USD and wants to hear offers...

    His prices are much higher now, I think its around 8'000 USD now for a classical guitar

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    Also the only pictures you will ever see of an Ottiger is this one here...

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