The dont's of live performance

Discussion in 'Live Performance & Stage Sound' started by 7 Dying Trees, Nov 9, 2007.

  1. cmtd

    cmtd SS.org Regular

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    I've ran across this "personal" sound guy thing playing out as well. I suppose if you are footing the bill to bring a competent sound guy out on the road, then you don't really owe anyone the charity of his or her work. The main thing that used to annoy me was the volume limiting you would get when opening for other acts. I completely get why it is done, but damn if it doesn't suck to end your set and see what the PA can really do when the sound guy cranks it up for the headliner.
     
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  2. lewis

    lewis SS.org Regular

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    Yeah that was exactly where my frustration was. It was about the show in general sounding great to me rather than me only thinking of my own band at the time. It was the principle. I dont know haha.

    also if the show is like 2 hours long, and people turn up and see the first 2-3 bands sound UTTER garbage, you run the risk of them leaving before the headliners and their "glossier" sound even happening so its a gamble imo.

    sidenote too, I always remember when I first played through a proper P.A. A festival P.A. Bloodstock Festival in the UK.

    I had been gigging with the Blackstar ID100 head and my own cab upto that point and never overly impressed with the "live" sound from it.

    Used the same head, with my normal tones, at Bloodstock through their proper p.a with a proper sound guy, and it blew my mind. The tone was out of this world. Was running through a wall of 4x12s whilst the mic'd one was being blended back in on stage I believe.

    Either way it was unreal and it was what really made me think "Wow digital really CAN sound amazing live if you have a sound guy that knows what he is doing through a decent P.A"

    After this I sold my Laney tube amp (didnt want to risk tubes for this performance per se) and my blackstar ID100 and used the funds from selling both to buy a Kemper and the rest is history haha.

    (sometimes I really miss that ID100 but it went to a band I was really friendly with to help them out and they love it and tour it so I dont feel that bad. Its gone to a great home)
     
  3. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    Maybe things are different in the UK, but here, any local 2 hour+ shows, you can guarantee that anyone coming to see the headliner will show up 5 minutes before the headliner goes on and not check out a single other band there. I've been to shows where the most popular band didn't go on last, and people all left after they finished their set, too. :/

    It's exceptionally rare even for bands to stick around longer than just to hear the band immediately ahead of them here. I know people are usually busy, but I really think someone from the band should be there for the entire show, and I think it's shitty and disrespectful for people to show up 5 minutes before setup and leave ten seconds after tear down for their band, but that's just what I always see now. It wasn't even this bad a couple years ago.

    And when I've seen bands use their own sound guy locally, they usually have the sound guy only run sound for their band, because they usually aren't present for any of the other bands anyway.

    I've also noticed a trend, just this last year or so, of bands showing up without any equipment at all, like just people with clothes on their backs and then these bands will expect to borrow everyone else's equipment - often times, since this is coupled with other bands not be present unless they are actively playing or setting up, it means that bands will sometimes show up with nothing, not perform any songs, do an awkward stand-up routine, and then leave. Unprofessional as it gets, IMO, and I think that needs to change.
     
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  4. TedEH

    TedEH Cromulent

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    Does that actually happen?! That's amazing. In a sad way. And I really hope they didn't get paid for it.
     
  5. lewis

    lewis SS.org Regular

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    Yep it does. Had this myself.

    Turned up for a show and we were loading in when a dude who i have never seen or met before , comes up to me and literally says "ah your the guitarist in the headline band yeah? So its cool to use your equipment yeah?".

    I was like "erm no it isnt cool. I dont even know you mate. If you wanted to arrange that properly you should have contacted us at least a week ago".
    Basically they hadnt brought anything and arrived with the intention of just doing the rounds asking every band to borrow their shit. Unreal
     
  6. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    Same happened to me, on two occasions this year. Neither of them realized I was playing guitars with microtonal fretboards. :lol: In neither case, did anyone ask at any time prior to when their band was supposed to be setting up.

    I mean, there are a thousand ways that could go wrong:

    1. Band before you doesn't use guitars
    2. Band before you didn't show up
    3. Guitarist from band before you needs to leave right away
    4. Guitarist from band before you isn't comfortable with your grubby mitts all over his axe
    5. Guitarist from band before you doesn't trust people who wait until the absolute last second to try to borrow something crucially important
    6. Guitarist from band before you doesn't use the same tuning as you
    7. Guitarist from band before you is cool with you using his stuff, doesn't care that you are going to tune his guitar down a step and a half, plans on sticking around, etc., but something breaks or stops working during the gig, and now you have no idea how to fix it, since it's not your stuff, and, to boot, guitarist from the band before you weighs 14 stone and punches rocks for a warm up.
    8. None of the above happens, and everything is pretty much perfect, except you'll sound like shit, because you are using gear with unfamiliar settings, and it's all set up for someone else.

    I'd say :2c:, but in this case, I feel strongly that it's more than that.
     
  7. Lindmann

    Lindmann SS.org Rectangular

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    I would be okay with it, if someone wanted to use my amp (happend aleady twice)
    But I would absolutely not be okay with someone playing my guitar.
    I am a Ben Weinman-style live performer myself and I know how quickly one can slam a guitar into something/someone on stage.
    Besides that...I don't want anyones filthy hands on by baby...Sharing guitars is like sharing your wife. You just don't do such things!

    On the other hand...
    As I am an Evertune-Player I would love to see his face, when he wanted to tune the guitar to his bands tunig by despearately turning the tuning pegs to no avail. I would instigate someone of his band to yell at him if he will tune the fucking guitar already.
     
  8. Screamingdaisy

    Screamingdaisy SS.org Regular

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    Went to a show about a month ago where there were three popular bands on the bill and 75% of the bar cleared out between bands and were replaced by a totally different crowd of about the same size.

    That said, I think that when the sound is well done you're more likely to keep people around longer. There's generally a crowd that will stick around to hear the next band, but they'll quickly depart if they don't like what they hear.

    Short turn around times help too. Nothing worse than waiting 30 minutes between bands.
     
  9. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    Obviously, you want to sound as good as possible. No matter how you sound, though, it does not guarantee a large nor small turnout, particularly in 2017. :shrug:

    I hate the long changeovers as well. My biggest peeve at these 5+ artist shows is that they'll tell each band what time to set up and what time to go on, and then the second band on the bill decides to throw all of that scheduling in the toilet. If you play second to last, you might as well just give up any expectations of starting on time.
     
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  10. lewis

    lewis SS.org Regular

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    so true.
    Ive had when bands have finished and all just casually walked off the stage when they were done and kind of disappeared outside?. Absolutely no urgency.
    Its like..erm guys?. Changeover mofos!. Get your shit out the way.
     
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  11. Lindmann

    Lindmann SS.org Rectangular

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    Or the best thing is, when the last band won't be able to play at all (or at least a cut-down set) because the previous bands delayed everything and the venue has a curfew. Did'nt happen to my band but I witnessed this once.

    First thing they do is to high-five all their buddies back stage and then rave about their performance.

    Whenever this happens I just take their amps and stuff and just put it somewhere at the back of the stage. I definitely won't wait for them to finish their celebrations.

    On the other hand...I absolutely hate it when my bandmates feel no urgency to set up their stuff. Especially when someone already indicated that everything's behind schedule and we've got to catch up.
    When the bass player doesn't even know how to plug his amp to the cabinet (because he seems to see a fucking speakon connector for the first time in his life) and the vocalist is just standing in the way and watching everyone to get ready.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2017
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  12. welsh_7stinger

    welsh_7stinger 7=best number

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    To do with bands fucking up the schedule, when ever ive played anything but opener i all ways panic if the band on before me i dont know atall. I allwasy try to strip down my gear as fast as possible. Due to me being a one man band ill let the band on after me set up the equipment they can while im setting up to save time during change over.
     
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  13. MattThePenguin

    MattThePenguin SS.org Regular

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    Is stage left the left side of the stage from the audiences perspective or the band's perspective? I'm pretty sure I gave my sound guy a stomach ulcer the other night. I feel really embarrassed. Also I was playing when he was micing my cab (I absolutely 100% didn't even realize he was there) because I thought something sounded off and when he called me out I was like holy shit I'm that asshole
     
  14. Lindmann

    Lindmann SS.org Rectangular

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    Haha...hillarious.
    Next time make sure the amp is kranked!
    (or dime it while the guy is setting up the mic)

    I always assume the sound guy is referring to the audience perspective when saying "left" and "right".
    But honestly...I rather prefer the "the guy with the red shirt" and "the guy with the blue shirt" technique.
    (doesn't apply for metal bands though...as these guys never heard of colors other than black)
     
  15. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    It's from the band's perspective, facing the audience (I did stage lights for my university's theatrical productions).
    If there's someone doing sound, I always wait quietly until they tell me to play something, specifically. If I don't know if someone's doing sound or not, I always ask. Usually it's impossible to miss the sound guy if you were there when the band before you set up, or if you are the first band, the sound guy almost always seeks you out to try to get a head start on production. That's why it's important to not show up ten seconds before you are supposed to go on.
     
  16. cwhitey2

    cwhitey2 BlackendCrust Metalâ„¢

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    I guess I'm the only swinger on here... :shrug:














    ..aww who am I trying to fool...I don't have a love life or a wife :lol: :wallbash:
     
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  17. Unleash The Fury

    Unleash The Fury SS.org Regular

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    So i will be playing my first show this saturday (at Altones in Jewett City, CT if anyones interested). This is also our first show as a band. Were going on first and have a short 4 song set because thats all we have so far.

    I am so excited but i know ill be nervous too. Ive been practicing taking two shots of vodka before our recent rehearsals, and its not enough to make me sloppy, but i really need something to take off the edge. And 2 shots do it for me.

    Its kinda stupid that we have only 4 songs yet i need to bring two guitars because one song is in a different tuning. Not a huge deal just annoying.

    Ironically, i am currently quitting this band and pretty much have them my two week notice. I told them id play the show with them and wouldnt leave them high and dry because thatd be fucked up. Im leaving because i dont want to go in the same musical direction they all want to go in. So after this show i am done with them altogether.

    So a bittersweet moment it will be. 3 years ive stuck woth the other guitarist and the bassist while weve had so many setbacks, drummer/singer changes........... All this time jamming with these guys and were finally playing our first show ever and my first show EVER, yet my last show with these guys. Man this is a weird fukking situation! They want me to stay but i dont want to do metalcore, yet i have to act like im 100% into it like a rock star on stage, only to say goodbye afterwords.
     
  18. Screamingdaisy

    Screamingdaisy SS.org Regular

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    Unless you already have another gig lined up I'd stick it out for awhile. Guitarists are a dime a dozen... guitarists with actual stage experience are more valuable. Even if you're not into the music it'll be worth it for the experience and the opportunity to make connections with other musicians.
     
  19. Unleash The Fury

    Unleash The Fury SS.org Regular

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    The thing is is theyve been wanting to do this mini east coast tour thing which id have to take a week off of work and will cost money. They also seriously want to get in the studio to record more tracks. Although i was initially intending on sticking around for the experience, now everything including touring and recording is coming up so quickly and they wanted a "yes" from me so they can say yes to the tour manager. So i had to put the brakes on and be like WHOA wait a second. I would love to just do shows for the time being but when it comes down to it, why am i going to invest more time and energy into something if my heart and soul is not in the music 100%?

    Everything started moving super fast paced and i just cant commit especially when studio time is expensive.

    Its a metalcore band with these big tough guy breakdowns and all that hardcore dancing shit and im just like.......dude......no......im not feeling that. At all. I want to do melodeath or just straight death. Not melodic metalcore. Its when the big breakdown is coming up everyones getting excited jumping up and down and giggling. Its like their high on breakdowns. And i cant get excited about that. I actually want to yawn at those parts. I think its so boring and i just cant force myself to do it any longer.

    They need a guitarist who wants to do metalcore
     
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  20. Screamingdaisy

    Screamingdaisy SS.org Regular

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    Fair enough.

    Committing to a mini tour with 4 songs and zero shows seems a bit like putting the cart before the horse...
     
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