Technique question - super fast palm muting bursts

Discussion in 'Beginners/FAQ' started by neuk01642, Sep 19, 2017.

  1. prlgmnr

    prlgmnr ...that kind of idea

    Messages:
    985
    Likes Received:
    252
    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2016
    Location:
    North Yorkshire, UK
    I do love a gallop.

    Trying to learn "Eternity Too Short" at the moment.

    I also finally learnt "Battery" this week, by which I mean I learnt to play what they actually play rather than what I've mistakenly been thinking I was hearing for about 20 years.
     
    takotakumi likes this.
  2. vilk

    vilk Very Regular

    Messages:
    4,510
    Likes Received:
    482
    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2013
    Location:
    Chicago
    oh funny, I was actually imagining just plain old mute tremolo picking like in Symbolic [or practically any other] Death song
     
  3. exo

    exo SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    705
    Likes Received:
    173
    Joined:
    May 14, 2010
    Location:
    Elkhart, IN
    The "chug chug....chugity chug chug" type deal Clockwork opens with? Where you basically toss a super fast gallopy deal into a chuggy part?

    Much like most other things guitar related, if it's not just "instictive" to you, practice practice practice is what'll make it work. If you consciously focus on staying "relaxed", eventually it'll just be natural for you........
     
  4. exo

    exo SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    705
    Likes Received:
    173
    Joined:
    May 14, 2010
    Location:
    Elkhart, IN
    The "chug chug....chugity chug chug" type deal Clockwork opens with? Where you basically toss a super fast gallopy deal into a chuggy part?

    Much like most other things guitar related, if it's not just "instictive" to you, practice practice practice is what'll make it work. If you consciously focus on staying "relaxed", eventually it'll just be natural for you........
     
  5. Konfyouzd

    Konfyouzd Dread-I Master Contributor

    Messages:
    22,892
    Likes Received:
    1,573
    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2009
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    You get what sound? Ive never seen that onomatopoeia before.

    I feel like anchoring and endurance practice are in order.
     
  6. Konfyouzd

    Konfyouzd Dread-I Master Contributor

    Messages:
    22,892
    Likes Received:
    1,573
    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2009
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    Just now read this and it's interesting now that I analyze how certain aspects of my technique developed.

    I'm realizing after reading this that I think I leaned to do what OP is after inadvertently by trying to learn to smoothly transition between trem and down picking.
     
  7. silverabyss

    silverabyss _(:3 」∠)_ Contributor

    Messages:
    3,452
    Likes Received:
    271
    Joined:
    May 14, 2011
    Location:
    Brewster, OH
    Guthrie Govan and Paul Gilbert have good vids on this on youtube
     
    neuk01642 likes this.
  8. bloc

    bloc tha vagina finda

    Messages:
    1,074
    Likes Received:
    31
    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2014
    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    This has probably been said, but hold the pick loosely. This is generally a good tip overall, as it will prevent your arm from tensing up and give you more picking endurance when playing fast stuff.

    However, this can cause the pick to turn in your fingers or fall out of your hand etc, so one way to counter this is to drill small holes into your pick to help grip them. I personally go with Gravity picks, which allow you to buy pre-drilled picks.
     
    neuk01642 likes this.
  9. Rizzo

    Rizzo SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    1,023
    Likes Received:
    37
    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2012
    Location:
    Italy
    Also yeah, as mentioned above, avoiding tension means being aware of your body at all times while practicing and playing. Think of that as guitar-mindfulness, kind of, ha!
     
  10. OmegaSlayer

    OmegaSlayer SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    2,964
    Likes Received:
    173
    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2013
    Location:
    Roma, Italy
    Practice with actual bursts.
    Go 16th notes on 60 BPM and every 3 bars play 32th notes.
    Keep relaxed.
    You can try to attempt other things while playing, so that you'll use more of your instinct to play rather than your brain forcing the movement or bothered about the arm/wrist.
     
    exo and neuk01642 like this.
  11. OmegaSlayer

    OmegaSlayer SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    2,964
    Likes Received:
    173
    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2013
    Location:
    Roma, Italy
    To further expand on my concept, which I exposed too quickly and not in depth.
    Rizzo suggested guitar awareness or mindfulness, which is an awesome thing, and you'll get there eventually.
    My opinion is that guitar awareness is like when you drive a car, you drive, while listening a song, thinking about your day, business, love, work, whatever, but you drive and don't think about the act of steering the wheel or put your foot on the brake, as you reach a confidence by which you "just do it"
    Playing guitar, or other instrument requires some more complex actions than driving, but you must reach that confidence.
    You won't achieve that confidence by obsessing about your arm, especially in regards to the right hand.
    I used to read a book and be there playing that 6th strings for hours.
    That helped building stamina too, because lack of stamina is probably what's keeping you from playing those bursts consistently.

    About the mechanics and muscle memory you develope in time while playing guitar I'll tell you something it happened some days ago.
    I took a guitar out of the case some days ago and started playing Testament's "Return To Serenity" solo.
    First fast descending scale and my hand tripped and missed or went slop on the strings.
    I repeat the passage slow, ok, play it again fast and I had the same problem.
    Played other parts that involved the same picking speed and no problem, just tripped in this 3 note per string pattern on first, second, third string...on G string I tripped.

    It took me ages to remember that the guitar had a problem in the setup.
    It's a guitar I purchased in not optimal condition and I have to bring to a luthier for a refret and bridge change.
    The G string is not perfectly sitting in the saddle, it's just 2mm or less offset.
    Never bothered to put it back in place because I had to bring the guitar to the luthier.

    What I want to say and what I found amazing, is how my brain got used to some incredibly small movements, movements where 1 or 2 mm makes you trip on a string.

    Movements that consciously I don't perceive, and I would not even be able to achieve, but that my body knows with insane precision and that makes me amazed at what a human body can perform and realize when patiently trained.
     
    neuk01642 likes this.
  12. neuk01642

    neuk01642 SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    34
    Likes Received:
    2
    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2016
    Location:
    London
    Genuinely profound man.
    That instinctive physical response is definitely what I'm after and the driving analogy really does stack up.
    And the observation of the tiny nature of the changes and movements required is really intriguing.

    Thanks really solid food for thought.

    Matt
     
  13. Jamey36

    Jamey36 SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    54
    Likes Received:
    10
    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Location:
    Cape Coral Fl.
    I am 47 and just recently began to try to expand my playing to include some of the things you are talking about.Everyones advice has been solid.What made the biggest difference for me was relaxing my grip on the pick.I tended to really clamp down on the pick while attempting those fast chugs.Concentrating on doing it with a relaxed grip on the pick also ended up helping me to relax overall while playing them(IE;no jaw clenching,arm tensing stiffness,etc.).Really helped my comfort level playing anything fast,and in the end the more comfortable we are with something,the more enjoyable it becomes.It's always easier to do something if you enjoy it.
     
  14. Unleash The Fury

    Unleash The Fury SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    1,193
    Likes Received:
    100
    Joined:
    May 16, 2015
    Location:
    CT, USA
    Not to derail the thread but can anyone reccomend videos on fast triplets/chugging lessons? Like how slow to start and how fast to progress? I ask because i also am interested in how to get better at it.
    Thanks, and sorry!
     
  15. OmegaSlayer

    OmegaSlayer SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    2,964
    Likes Received:
    173
    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2013
    Location:
    Roma, Italy
    Metronome.
    Malmsteen, Vai, Batio, Becker, Morse...there weren't videos at their time.
    Internet make people lazy.
     
  16. Unleash The Fury

    Unleash The Fury SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    1,193
    Likes Received:
    100
    Joined:
    May 16, 2015
    Location:
    CT, USA
    Was kinda hoping for one that focused on wrist technique, not building speed
     
  17. exo

    exo SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    705
    Likes Received:
    173
    Joined:
    May 14, 2010
    Location:
    Elkhart, IN
    Not a true "lesson" video......but my personal recommendation for getting the triplets going is to find some material that has them, and just practice, practice, practice until you can play that material.

    I don't want to be rude sounding or anything, either.....but the original guys that are utter badasses at these type of techniques are in their 50's, and they didn't HAVE "lessons" for stuff like this, they just went out and DID it......at the end of the day, a triplet is a simple down-up-down picking pattern, there's not a lot of "technique" actually involved, and sometimes "overthinking" is the biggest impediment to gaining that "guitar mindfulness" Omega was talking about. The best "lesson" you'll find is gonna be music you love that you want to play along with.

    For me, Jon Shaffer of Iced Earth is the triplet god. Head to YouTube, look up Demons & Wizards self titled debut, and listen to the triplet work in the second and third tracks, and go from there.......
     
  18. prlgmnr

    prlgmnr ...that kind of idea

    Messages:
    985
    Likes Received:
    252
    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2016
    Location:
    North Yorkshire, UK
    Just chucked this on and was pleasantly surprised when the vocals came in, the Blind Guardian guy is about the only power metal vocalist I can stand.
     
    exo likes this.
  19. Unleash The Fury

    Unleash The Fury SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    1,193
    Likes Received:
    100
    Joined:
    May 16, 2015
    Location:
    CT, USA


    This is more my style. But still, theres a reason why some people plataeu in terms of speed when doing something on guitar, and alot of the time its because their technique is flawed. They may have started off the wrong way with some bad habits and need someone to show them what theyre doing wrong.

    I dont live in the "thrash bay area" in the 80s where true, they didnt have internet videos like we do, but they lived in a densly populated area that was booming with rock and metal musicians.

    If someone is living in some bu*fuck town, that is rather secluded and therefore doesnt/cant socialize with many other guitarists in person, and if theyre getting pain in the hands because theyre doing something wrong and cant figure out what it is......then i see nothing wrong with learning from videos that can show you a better way.

    Im not making excuses for anything, because i agree people should just sit down with the metronome and grind it out. But some people hit a brick wall in terms of speed and could benefit from video lessons to break through that wall
     
  20. exo

    exo SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    705
    Likes Received:
    173
    Joined:
    May 14, 2010
    Location:
    Elkhart, IN
    Yeah, that's some awesome thrashy triplet stuff right there, alright.

    Like I said, not trying to be rude.

    Playing in a manner that doesn't injure you is important.....but check out Marty Friedman's "wrist position". Lessons definitely have their place......but at the same time, it's easy to put too fine a point on stuff and "overthink" things sometimes, and have THAT plateau your playing too. THAT was all I was really getting at with my comments
     

Share This Page