Tax Bill about to Pass (actually matters)

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by wankerness, Nov 30, 2017.

  1. PunkBillCarson

    PunkBillCarson SS.org Regular

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    And this is how you know that you're wrong and that I'm right. You're resorting to petty trolling to try and get your point across. I think it's safe to say that you're sufficiently blinded.
     
  2. Randy

    Randy Ooh, Degrasse Tyson-son Super Moderator

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    I dabble in conspiracies as mostly a function of observation of human psychiatry and because I enjoy "what ifs".

    The thing I absolutely can't resolve, say there is a gigantic Rothchild/Bilderberg/Rockefeller conspiracy for the entire world to be run by a single group for all of modern (ancient?) history. So fucking what? Your parents grew up in that world, your grandparents grew up in that world, so on and so on.

    Despite all these machinations, we still live generally long, healthy and fulfilling lives. We're free to do a lot of awesome things, procreate, pursue careers or artistic endeavours of our choosing, and it's been that way for thousands of years. If the invisible hand that are our slave owners are so deviant and scary, why have they allowed us countless generations of mostly decent lives? What kind of Utopia are you thinking we'd be living were it not for the NWO?
     
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  3. PunkBillCarson

    PunkBillCarson SS.org Regular

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    It's rapidly degrading though. Ever notice how people from back when keeping saying that it's getting worse and worse and more people are dying, getting sick, and slowly but surely this is becoming a world of zombies. Tell me how far you can walk without running into someone glued into their phone. That's what they want. Enslavement and so far, from all the deniers and the "fuck it just let it be" that I've seen in the last couple of hours, they're doing a pretty damn good job, I'll give them that.
     
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  4. narad

    narad SS.org Regular

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    For real. Invisible hand + a decent amount of hard work has been pretty good to me. And I'm far, far, far better off than most people born into poverty in non-invisible-hand countries. If I didn't have to read so much fabricated politics in the newspaper, I might even be pro-invisible hand.
     
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  5. PunkBillCarson

    PunkBillCarson SS.org Regular

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    Well listen, little Bo Peep, you keep carrying on like a good little sheep, stay inside your well-designed keep, for what you sow here, you shall reap.
     
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  6. StevenC

    StevenC SS.org Regular

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    https://xkcd.com/1601/
     
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  7. PunkBillCarson

    PunkBillCarson SS.org Regular

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    Hey, if that's what you want to believe that's all on you.
     
  8. Randy

    Randy Ooh, Degrasse Tyson-son Super Moderator

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    You don't need some big elaborate conspiracy to feel like things are going "downhill" and just because you feel that way doesn't necessarily make it true either.

    I'm not some big science/technology fetishist, but it's undeniable the amount of enhancements to human life through the last few decades. Even your example, I'll gladly take a device "that turns people into zombies" if the flip side of it is that I can call AAA if my car breaks down in the rain on the side of the road in the middle of the night or I can call an ambulance if a loved one had a heart attack somewhere other than in my house.

    You're going to have to have a complaint a little less abstract than people being universally distracted to convince me the modern age is measurably worse than what preceded it.

    To that end, I've met a lot of people on the internet who became friends in real life. If this theory about some kind of forced isolation through technology is true, they're doing a piss poor job since my "tribe" (theoretically the band of people I could team with if some authoritarian regime sought to imprison us) is larger with the use of technology, not smaller. Anyone from this site who's gone to a concert and picked out someone else from the forum while talking at the merchandise booth knows this to be true.

    If the complaint is that it's rude for people to be on their phones while there's other people around, the point is well taken but there's zero utility in drawing some overarching point from it. People will use anything to distract them. Sometimes the company you're forced to keep isn't as interesting as the company on the other end of the telephone. :shrug:

    Like I said, I dabble in conspiracies. I find some things interesting and in some extreme cases, at best you have whistle blowing (see: Watergate) but typically you just have a Rube Goldberg contraption of logic just to explain otherwise mundane things.

    I'm personally not a big fan of the volatility of the job market or the economy as a whole of the last 15 - 20 years, and I think we do get overtaxed for the quality of representation and services we get, but that doesn't need an explanation beyond basic greed and laziness that's existed since the dawn of time. You don't need an invisible hand to do any of that.
     
  9. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    Well, it's a little hard to share a paper copy with you, considering this is a conversation we're having over the internet. :) Still, will you take a picture of the original? And, is there a particular place where you think the excerpts I've shared are inaccurate?

    I hope you appreciate the extreme irony of this statement. :lol:

    But, what the fuck, let's go with it. Just because it's available on the internet doesn't automatically make it NOT a fact either, or clearly the sources you're sharing are factually inaccurate, as well (which as it happens they are - narad has already pointed out the guy who was "murdered" for questioning the Fed actually died of natural causes, but that's neither here nor there). Rather, there's a whole lot of information out there, and some sort of determination has to be made over what's reliable and what isn't. There's a bunch of ways you can be increasingly sure you're working with reliable information, but as a general rule working with original source documentation (for example, the US Constitution) is generally pretty reliable. Is it possible that the site I linked you to had an incorrect copy of the constitution on it, differing in content from the original? Sure, it's possible... But the passages I quoted correspond closely with my memories from studying US history, from seeing the original in Washington, from conversations with constitutional law scholars, and the changes made in the 16th Amendment make sense when evaluating the original article, so for the passage I quoted to be a fabrication, it would have to be a pretty massive internet-wide conspiracy, so wide that even your "conspiracy theory busting" Liberty for Life website doesn't talk about how Article 8 doesn't give the power to levy taxes, and they themselves would have to be in on the conspiracy for what I shared to be false. Which, I think you'll agree, seems a stretch.

    Now, on that site... They give 10 possible reasons for a ratification to be ignored, including: "Approval, but with change in wording, accepted as ratification of original version," "Approval, but with change in spelling, accepted as ratification of original version," "Approval, but with change in capitalization, accepted as ratification of original version," "Approval, but with change in punctuation, accepted as ratification of original version." This represents the bulk of the reasons for throwing out ratifications.

    So, I'd say that's nitpicking, and arguing that minor spelling, punctuation, and capitalization differences mean the Amendment shouldn't be considered ratified isn't a sound objection. You're going to disagree, of course. However, let's take this another step back - the Constitution was ratified in a similar manner to Amendments, and came into effect after the vote to ratify of 2/3rds of the member states. And, as you yourself point out, there are slight differences in wording, spelling, and capitalization in different copies of the original Constitution, and very likely were slight differences, therefore, in the versions voted on to ratify. Do those slight differences invalidate the whole consitution, and mean that the document our government was found on and which you view as the basis for the belief that the 16th Amendment was, as you put it, "unconstitutional," never actually became the law of the land in the United States?

    Of course not. Because that whole line of argument is absurd. And, as a general rule, if the best argument you can make against something is "everything on the internet is false!" rather than actually making an argument on a factual basis... It's probably because you're arguing for a position that CAN'T be substantiated by fact. Worth thinking about.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2017
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  10. vilk

    vilk Very Regular

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    Obviously, baseless rumors are especially true when they coincide with my preexisting opinions and biases. Duh!! If you don't believe me, then prove the negative of this totally foundation-less rumor that I typed on the spot based on a Youtube video I saw! C'mon, sheeple! Sad.


    On a related note, have you noticed that rainy days make you feel sad or cold? That's because The Weather Channel puts gervnerment chemicals in the rainclouds to control your mind. Why the hell you think it's cold and depressing when it rains? It seems so obvious. If you fold up a 1950s $2 bill, you can see a gervnerment rain cloud chemical upsidown in the mirror on the corner
     
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  11. Randy

    Randy Ooh, Degrasse Tyson-son Super Moderator

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    Alright, enough of the sniping. We literally just went over this and it goes both ways. The threads getting locked for a little while and we'll try this again to see if we can get on topic and more importantly, maintain some decorum.
     
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  12. Randy

    Randy Ooh, Degrasse Tyson-son Super Moderator

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    Alrighty, lets give this another shot, shall we?
     
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  13. narad

    narad SS.org Regular

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    Everyone's too scared hahah
     
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  14. Unleash The Fury

    Unleash The Fury SS.org Regular

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    ^ And with good reason. Well...........unless your on the left then you have nothing to worry about. (It seems)

    Everyones already expressed their opinion. And unless 100% of the people that contribute to this thread identify with the same political ideology, theres always going to be head bashing. Might as well not even bother then.
     
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  15. Randy

    Randy Ooh, Degrasse Tyson-son Super Moderator

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    Pro-tip: Last guy you sparred with (USmarine) is not a lefty. You're not conservative either, near as I can tell you're an anarchist. All the people even remotely taking your side are doing so in a "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" way because there is absolutely not rational underlying ideology to anything you've posted in this subforum.
     
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  16. Unleash The Fury

    Unleash The Fury SS.org Regular

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    Really you think im an anarchist? I am not.
     
  17. PunkBillCarson

    PunkBillCarson SS.org Regular

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    ^I am not trying to tell you what to do but it seems you thoroughly enjoy being on this site, so I implore you not to go down the same path I did yesterday. I don't disagree with you on a lot of this, I just don't want to see you get banned.
     
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  18. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    I'd be curious to hear what your ideology actually is, then.

    You want large chunks of federal law overturned, including the (Constitutionally granted) ability of the federal government to levy taxes, and apparently you're also calling for the abolition of the US central bank. I can't see how you could do either, much less both, without destroying the value of the US Dollar and leading to a full-scale collapse of the federal government - at a minimum, we'd have to default on our outstanding debt, as well as no longer be able to pay US troops and public sector employees. I guess I'm willing to hear out arguments that you're not advocating for anarchy, but in practice it seems like the dissolution of the federal union is the pretty clear ending of a lot of the steps you're advocating for.
     
  19. Unleash The Fury

    Unleash The Fury SS.org Regular

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    You "guess"? It sounds like youve already made up your mind about where you think i stand. :deadhrse:
     
  20. StevenC

    StevenC SS.org Regular

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    You asked a question, he answered it rationally based on what you've told us. He asked you a question*, and you're dodging it. If can't form your own coherent ideology, how is anyone else supposed to figure it out for you?

    (*A question can be asked without a question mark)
     

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