t4m (technology 4 musicians) tremolo experiences?

Discussion in 'Luthiery, Modifications & Customizations' started by cardinal, Jul 27, 2018.

  1. cardinal

    cardinal Strat 7 Guy

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    Hi all,

    I have a hardtail 8-string that deep down really wishes it had a tremolo instead. Fitting a Floyd 8 would be tough because it has a soapbar pickup fairly close to the bridge, so the Floyd Studs are going to end up closer to that route than I'm comfortable with.

    But the t4m tremolo is different: the saddles can come up to where the pivot posts are, so I could install it with a lot more wood supporting the studs.

    Anyone have experience with this trem?

    I've never used a bridge with these "infinite tuners" on them: do they work well? I worry they won't hold tuning as well as a true locking saddle, but who knows?

    If I'm going to use something funky without locking saddles, I instead could just use a Kahler. It's a bolt-on guitar, so I could shim the neck up or down to get the action right for the Kahler saddles. For years my only guitar (hard to imagine!!!) had a Kahler and it was totally fine, but all the internet hate on that trem makes me irrationally nervous to use it again, which is dumb but is still a thing.

    Thanks!
     
  2. Kashmir

    Kashmir SS.org Regular

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    The T4M vibrato certainly does have more intonation range than a Floyd but from the picture on the manufacturer's website it appears to have the same footprint as a Floyd Rose. It's likely made as a drop-in replacement. If you can find a mounting or routing template that'd be a way to determine if you're able to use it. As far as Kahlers go I like them, I don't understand the hate. My #1 has a Kahler that's been functioning perfectly since I bought the guitar five years ago. The stability of the saddles, smooth cam motion, and wide adjustment range all make me prefer Kahler over Floyd. The only downside is they're rather expensive (but isn't everything in the extended range world?).
     
  3. cardinal

    cardinal Strat 7 Guy

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    Thanks!

    T4M did provide a routing template. The 6-string apparently is a drop in Floyd replacement. The 7 and 8 string models have slightly different post spacing, but the 8-string is different by only .5mm I think so might work since the bass-side knife edge is flat.

    And what makes it easier to mount is that for a new installation, the saddle’s break point can be adjusted even with stud. On a Floyd, the stud always is a few millimeters forward of the break point, which forces the stud closer to the rear pickup route. The T4M allows you to mount that stud farther back but still be able to intonate the strings.

    But Kahler sure would be a lot easier to route and the string spacing is fully adjustable.
     
  4. GuitarBizarre

    GuitarBizarre Listen to physics.

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    Bear in mind that there is a good reason floyds can't do what you're suggesting.

    Take a floyd. Imagine the saddle 1cm in front of the point around which the tremolo is pivoting. Now imagine diving that tremolo.

    What would happen is, instead of relieving any tension on the string, you would simply pull the string straight down into the frets. Even if the string didn't hit the frets, you'd end up RAISING the pitch because you're dragging the string around and under the front of the bridge, and making it's total length LONGER in the process - stretching it.

    If you pulled up instead, the exact same thing would happen - only the action would be raised instead of lowered, so you wouldn't hit any frets.

    If you want to be able to lower the pitch of a string, the string's anchoring point MUST be behind the fulcrum so that you can shorten the string in one direction (down on the bar, anchor point rotates up and forward around the fulcrum), and lengthen it in the other (up on the bar, anchor point rotates down and back around the fulcrum)
     
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  5. Pikka Bird

    Pikka Bird Vaya Con Cornholio

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    ^That action change would be the case if the string's break point over the saddle was in front of the pivot, yes. But as long as that point is also raised somewhat in relation to that pivot (which I think they are on literally all fulcrum trems) then it's gonna lower the pitch when you dive the bar since the movements of those points will describe a circle with the center on the pivot point and the radius is the distance from that point to the break point. If it was on the level of the pivot then any saddle break point position that was in front of the pivot would indeed move backwards and down (tightening and lowering the string), but since the point will invariably be above the pivot then it'll just lower the string (which is also different from the norm), but also introduce slack.
     
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  6. StevenC

    StevenC SS.org Regular

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    On a Floyd, the string lock and the saddle aren't the same part. So diving a Floyd with the saddle in front of the fulcrum would inherently lower the pitch, just by lengthening the string when the string lifts partially off the saddle.

    Depending on how far in front of the fulcrum the saddle is, the pitch would decrease for at least some of the dive. The principle being that if you could actuate a Floyd in a complete circle, diving would eventually start to increase the tension. This only moves the point at which the pitch increases forward in the dive, but there would likely always be at least some minor pitch decrease in this scenario.

    It wouldn't be very effective, though.
     
  7. cardinal

    cardinal Strat 7 Guy

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    Yeah I was going to post this. Since the string is anchored higher than the pivot point, the string should go slack when tipping the bridge forward even if the anchor point is even with or a touch forward of the pivot point.
     
  8. Hollowway

    Hollowway Extended Ranger

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    Check out the flat mount Sophia from Coherent Light and Sound. I literally just emailed them about getting an 8 string flat mount version of their 3:22 trem for a guitar of mine. Literally no routing required, apparently.
     
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  9. cardinal

    cardinal Strat 7 Guy

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    Cool, hope they will build that. Their stuff seems... unusual
     
  10. Hollowway

    Hollowway Extended Ranger

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    Yeah, so it seems that that trem is still in engineering, and it will be a while before it's available. So that's a bust on that.
     
  11. ElRay

    ElRay Mostly Harmless

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    Also, they’re taking preorders for the stud-mount teen.
     
  12. GuitarBizarre

    GuitarBizarre Listen to physics.

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    Dude, proofread! Proofread!
     
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  13. Technology4Musicians

    Technology4Musicians SS.org Regular

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    Sorry for the intrusion .. I hope not to break any forum's rules.
    Just a clarification: our tremolos work like a Floyd and like all floating tremolo the pivots point should be over the saddles point. Our saddles have an extended range of regularion but it does not mean that you have to set the saddles necessarily over or further the pivots point.
    Respect to other tremolos You can push them a little bit further on, close to the pivots point if You need.

    Here is an example of what I'm trying to say.


    Hope it helps.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2018
  14. Andrew Lloyd Webber

    Andrew Lloyd Webber Custom Title

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    Now tell us about the stud-mount teen.
     
  15. ElRay

    ElRay Mostly Harmless

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    It was right when I typed it. Damned autocorrect! :lol:
     
  16. ElRay

    ElRay Mostly Harmless

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    I just googled that with great trepidation. Fortunately, the top search result was a “Wall-mounted Earing Holder for Teen”
     

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