Suicide Squad - no spoilers

Discussion in 'Movies, Books, TV & Media' started by cronux, Aug 4, 2016.

  1. BlackMastodon

    BlackMastodon \m/ (゚Д゚) \m/ Contributor

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    I really disagree with this, watching Ledger's Joker for the first time I actually felt unnerved whenever he got close to people with a blade, talking about his scars. Leto's Joker just felt like EdgeLord5Ever and was really disappointing.

    The 2 movies smushed together comment is exactly how I felt coming out of it, I really disappointed, especially for all the talent that they had in the movie. Margot Robbie killed it as Harley, Will Smith killed it as Deadshot, Viola Davis was awesome as Amanda Waller, but other than that it started out pretty solid but then devolved into a really dumb super hero movie plot.

    This post sums up most of my problems with the movie:
    https://www.facebook.com/OfficialBatmanMemes/posts/1070792696374011

    I'm a big fan of the Suicide Squad comics and this definitely did a poor job of pandering to the comic nerds in my opinion; for one Joker could've been used for so much more in the movie, if he was taken out entirely it probably wouldn't even change anything in the plot. It's not like I hated it but it was really just okay. Wouldn't watch it again unless it was on TV.
     
  2. Xaios

    Xaios Foolish Mortal Contributor

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    Somewhere, Daniel Day-Lewis is shaking his head.

    Indeed:

     
  3. wankerness

    wankerness SS.org Regular

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    Maybe they have higher standards than "fun thing that you won't remember in a week"? Half the POSITIVE reviews sound negative with this.

    I guess I'll have to sit this one out too. I hate contributing money to a bad cause like this. I don't regret watching the long version of BVS, but they just released a statement here saying "this is the only version!!!" I think the director may have just been playing politics and been lying to avoid pissing off the studio by telling the truth (aka, they took his movie and messed it all up to try and make it more marketable). I dunno, though. I think his films all have a very common theme of bro-tastic d-bags with stupid nicknames slapping each other on the back and busting each other's balls and talking about all the women they're going to bang and acting like total dicks and maybe throwing in one girl that has to be massively overcompensating for something by acting even more like a brotastic d-bag. I HATED End of Watch and slightly less hated Sabotage, but I will say that Fury starts off the exact same way until he legitimately deconstructs that very idea (that scene with the two German women is even tenser than the opening in Inglorious Basterds), so I don't think he's an idiot. This probably could have been interesting. It sounds like they made him come up with the entire script and plan for directing it in like, 6 weeks. Marvel has never done that to a director, which is a good thing in terms of allowing the scripts to not be messes (but, they also exact a lot more control over keeping them in the "house style").

    I guess we'll see if it is a success. Evidently this one only has to make 800 million to be considered successful, unlike BvS's billion.
     
  4. Sephiroth952

    Sephiroth952 Ibby Fanboy

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    Went and saw it today. Tbh its not a bad flick. Was it as good as the hype made it to be? Naw, but it was certainly a fun little action flick. The only problem I have with it is that it couldn't choose whether it wanted to be a grimdark modern superhero movie or a comedy action romp. I would have rathered it lean more toward the latter, but it still had some pretty funny moments.
    All together 6/10, would recommend at least one viewing.
     
  5. KnightBrolaire

    KnightBrolaire tinkerer/aspiring builder/8 string hoarder

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    Yeah critics and the public generally don't agree. Look at the scores on metacritic/rotten tomatoes given by critics and those given by the public. Very rarely do they line up unless the movie is exceptionally good or bad.
     
  6. Xaios

    Xaios Foolish Mortal Contributor

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    User scores for movies like this are an extremely useless source of information, and this is why:

    A) The movie will receive an excess amount of worst possible user scores because:
    - Some people will go see it wanting to hate it because they either play for the other camp (Marvel films in this case) or they hate superhero movies in general, but want to be able to claim that they saw it so that their opinions are "totally my own, man."
    - Some people, for very similar reasons, will rate it as such without even bothering to see it.
    - Some will rate it as such because, while they don't truly believe that the movie is as bad as the rating they assign, they feel they must "compensate" for unwarranted 10/10 best possible review scores.

    B) Conversely, they will receive an excess amount of best possible user scores because:
    - Some people will go see it wanting to love it because they're fans of the source material, and no amount of visible flaws will dissuade them from the opinion that they've just watched the greatest movie ever. (Although, at least in the case of people who love it, they will almost certainly have seen the movie before rating it)
    - Some will rate it as such because, while they don't truly believe that the movie is as bad as the rating they assign, they feel they must "compensate" for unwarranted 0/10 worst possible review scores.

    C) MOST IMPORTANTLY, typical moviegoers, unlike critics, often aren't able to separate their ego from the thing they're reviewing, and so for some reason feel that a review that doesn't line up with their opinions about a movie is a personal attack on their feelings. Additionally, typical moviegoers will often assign different and wildly varying weight to each aspect of a film, while a true critic must weigh each aspect on its own merits. For example, in the eyes of a fan, one or two great performances or awesome special effects can more than make up for weaknesses in things like plot, pacing, dialogue, or any number of the subtler aspects that really make a good movie good. The inverse is also true, although it doesn't come up very often. There are plenty of movies that are critical darlings that fans really don't enjoy because one or two very specific aspects of that film, despite it being otherwise well executed, drag it down.
     
  7. Demiurge

    Demiurge Intrepid Jackass

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    ^These things are all true and, really, considering that user scores are solely comprised of those from people who felt strongly enough to provide one, the sampling is not going to be helpful.
     
  8. wankerness

    wankerness SS.org Regular

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    Plus, everything in the theater has way higher ratings than it eventually gets to once the dust has settled. New movies often end up in the top 250 on IMDB and are nowhere close a couple years later. Tons of people have a "THAT WAS AWESOME" rush after the theater, then watch it on TV a couple years later and go "actually...that was pretty bad!!!" The sound and fury is gone after it's out of theaters and you're more left to confront actual plot and dialogue issues.

    Jurassic World and Attack of the Clones were two examples of this for me. I'd have given both about a 7/10 in the theater, and more like a 2/10 now that I've had to watch them on home video.
     
  9. FEcorvus

    FEcorvus SS.org Regular

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    my opinion, the start was great I enjoyed it a ton, then about halfway through it became terribad, it's like the dialogue was written by a elementary student, I assume that the scriptwriters ran out time or the ability to care or both

    if the movie had continued being as good as the first part before they actually started their mission I'd have given it a 8.5 or a 9

    but the second part was so badly written and seemed so glued together that I'd give it a 3

    so I'll split the difference and say it was a 6/10 worth watching once
     
  10. flint757

    flint757 SS.org Regular

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    Didn't they go into rewrite after BvS didn't do well and people were being mislead by early trailers? If that actually happened it kind of makes sense why it would feel like two different movies mashed together because it basically would be if they kept any of the original script.
     
  11. wankerness

    wankerness SS.org Regular

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    They supposedly did a lot of rewrites/reshooting to make it zanier. I haven't seen it, so I don't know how much of that there is. There are some documented deleted scenes that would have made it heavier, like scenes with the joker hitting Harley Quinn etc.
     
  12. Triple-J

    Triple-J the Experimetalist

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    So I saw it this morning and well I'll get the bad out of the way first....

    I was one of the few who felt Leto was a good casting choice so I'm sad to admit that I found him quite disappointing and lacking in personality.
    Throughout the film Shaggy2Jok3r comes across a bit of a clotheshorse as he's painfully thin (a dead ringer for Joker of the Batman RIP arc) his outfits look great and he's constantly preening but he's not scary and he isn't funny either(imo the Joker should always be a mix of both) he's irritating and in a way he's surplus to requirements so I felt the film could have worked out better without him.

    Any cast members that aren't Waller, Deadshot, Harley or Rick Flagg get zero time to shine which is a shame as I loved Boomerang and felt like he could have been the breakout character if there were more of him in the film Katana & Diablo got shafted hardest but Diablo really bothered me as he's a particular type of cliche that I thought we'd left in the 80's.

    Cara Delevigne as a seasoned archaeologist is pretty unbelievable because she looks like she's still in high school.

    The good....

    Smith as Deadshot was quite refreshing his cockiness fits the character his verbal sparring with Flagg was great and showed good chemistry plus he gets a good story arc here so I hope Deadshot ends up a protagonist in one of the Batfleck films instead of them hiring Leto to do the tired old "Batman vs Joker" thing.

    Viola Davis as Amanda Waller was brilliant she doesn't mess around owns every single scene is scarier than Leto's Joker and rather like Deadshot I hope we see more of her in future DC movies.

    Cap Boomerang is a loveable idiot and yes he is pretty useless in terms of powers but I think that's the point really.

    Overall it's a decent movie but with better editing it could have been magnificent it's not as bad as some would have you believe though and after the dour cynical miseryfest that was BvS it's a step in the right direction, I did find myself wishing they'd just made a live action adaptation of the animated Suicide Squad movie (Assault on Arkham) though because that uses the same characters/plot but takes a much better approach.

    I don't think you can blame the movie for the amount of sensationalist rubbish written about it plus Leto has also said that he bought cakes & doughnuts for cast & crew on most days but the press have failed to mention that because it doesn't fit their "OMG Leto is soooo dedicated to his craft he's probably going to die of a sleeping pill overdose too!!" angle which shows how ott it's become.
    Personally I feel like the root of the problem is that no matter who it is the press love to romanticise method acting (even though the reality is it's pretty self indulgent) and it's become one of the myths of art/creativity but it's not just movies that fall into this trap as the press have dined out for years on those tales of Corey Taylor recording vocals with Ross Robinson naked and covered in blood etc.
     
  13. TedEH

    TedEH Cromulent

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    :agreed: IMO she was probably the best part of the movie.
     
  14. RUSH_Of_Excitement

    RUSH_Of_Excitement SS.org Regular

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    I don't understand why everyone hates Batman V. Superman. I thought it was a great movie :D
     
  15. TedEH

    TedEH Cromulent

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    ^ I haven't seen it yet, but I kinda want to now.

    :lol:
     
  16. Bloody_Inferno

    Bloody_Inferno Silence is Violence

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    Not everyone hates BVS, if anything it's more polarising than universally hated.

    I however, am one of those that hated that movie. :lol:

    As for Suicide Squad... haven't seen it yet and currently approaching with extreme trepidation (largely thanks to being aware of all the post production interference and reshoots and edits from the responses of BVS's box office performance). I'm not rushing to see this honestly, but I really find it fascinating seeing Warner Bros and DCEU feeling the domino effects from building their entire superhero plans from whatever the hell Man Of Steel and BVS were.
     
  17. wankerness

    wankerness SS.org Regular

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    http://heroichollywood.com/speculation-rumored-deleted-suicide-squad-scenes/

    So, uhh, maybe Ayer is just giving the studio line, and this will be another which has a massively improves extended version down the line (it seems like already no one ever recommends watching the theatrical version of BvS unless you really want to see it in 3D). Director's Cut Extended Universe is apparently the new term getting thrown around derisively. Sounds like this one might actually be a box office success, which unfortunately may have the side-effect of meaning the long version might be delayed more. 140 million this weekend in the US alone, if it can do another 660 million worldwide it will be good.
     
  18. KnightBrolaire

    KnightBrolaire tinkerer/aspiring builder/8 string hoarder

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    The whole point of sites like rotten tomatoes and metacritic is that they average scores for critics and regular people alike. granted they don't weight the outliers (which there are many for a film like this or BvS) but it is still a decent metric for gauging popular opinion of films imo. I'd say the sample sizes depend on the sites, as rotten tomatoes is generally a better gauge due to the ease of leaving a score without having to write a review. 83,000 rated Suicide squad on RT, which is a pretty big sample size. If we take the population of the U.S (600,000,00) as the total movie going population for Suicide squad then we only need a sample of about 16641 people to have a confidence interval of 98-100%. Even if we drop the population size to say 3,000,000 we only need 16,549 people as the sample size.
    TLDR: RT is a good metric for public opinion on a film even with huge outliers as the sheer amount of data negates any skewing.
     
  19. Lorcan Ward

    Lorcan Ward 7slinger Contributor

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    That was pretty bad. Not as bad as BvS but it had obvious signs of studio interference which brought it down. We really shouldn't live in an era where its the norm to frantically re-write and re-shoot films based on the success and failures of other films.

    A group of people walked out near the end getting the biggest laugh of all from the audience.

    Will Smith was on point though.
     
  20. mongey

    mongey SS.org Regular

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    really was looking forward to this . trying to hook up some babysitting so me and the wife can go but we watched superman vs batman over the weekend and I thought it blowed .putting me off a little
     

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