Shawn Lane Tone

Discussion in 'Music Theory, Lessons & Techniques' started by includao, Oct 31, 2006.

  1. ShadyDavey

    ShadyDavey 7ibrarian

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    Yes, yes it would!!

    It just fries my tiny mind somtimes. I mean.....musicality I can dig. Technique I can dig.....Tone I can dig.....all of it, all of the time wipes me out.

    Have you slowed down some of his runs with software? I really want to do a cover of "The Way it has to be" from Tri-tone so I gave it a cursory poke (its only got a couple of quick sections) and the sheer speed isn't so intimidating as exactly what he plays. The melodic ideas, the tone....as well as his vibrato and feel.....there are about 20 seconds of fast licks in a 4:39 song but man.....they're just fabulous.

    His tone does remind me of Eric Johnson's in places - the way it seems to breath and react under picking whilst retaining warmth and clarity. I think that a decent tube amp and pedal could be made to work quite nicely :)
     
    distressed_romeo likes this.
  2. Excalibur

    Excalibur :O

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    If anyone wants me to post an indepth analysis of Shawn Lane's picking, just ask :)
     
  3. vontetzianos

    vontetzianos SS.org Regular

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    Please do:agreed:.
     
  4. ShadyDavey

    ShadyDavey 7ibrarian

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    I'd be interested to see an indepth analysis beyond the stuff Troy Grady has done (as well as the other links from this thread) - would be cool :)

    I spoke to WJ about Chorus/Delay pedals and he's admitted to being no expert (even while he does have a million, million clips) so I'm going to hit up the Memphis Monster forum for any info that they might have.
     
  5. distressed_romeo

    distressed_romeo F'king ............ Forum MVP

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    Troy Grady needs to get his fucking film finished!:lol:
     
  6. SnowfaLL

    SnowfaLL SS.org Regular

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    Woah thats odd.. I also pick on an angle like that, altho over the past year ive been trying to fix it and pick flat to the strings, cause I feel it hinders my upward sweeps, the pick misses the strings sometimes.. and I dunno.

    I think I actually learned this method from Metallica in the early days, i read that James tilted his pick on a 45 degree angle, to get this more "chuggier" attack on power chords, rather than the standard metal style.. and since it was my first year of playing, the habbit was formed.. Its neat to know that someone as proficient as Lane also did this, so maybe there is hope for me to not have to correct it.
     
  7. Dusty201087

    Dusty201087 Kenyon class of 2014

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    Oh god, sorry to bump this topic, Lane is just one of my heros and I've never noticed how he picked until now! Very interesting. I've been noodling for about an hour with it and, damn, once you get used to it it really seems to make a difference. I'm not double jointed, but I have crazy hitchhikers thumb, so while I don't do near as an extreme angle as Shawn I can still get that angle. Very helpful/informative topic, I entend on experimenting with this style a lot :yesway:.

    On a side note, does anyone know if Lane used economy or alt picking? I'm sure he could shread circles around most using both though :lol:

    And I would love to see the in-depth of his picking :drool:

    I think the Vigier signatures (at least the one on their website) is a "24.8" scale, rather than 25.5". I know I've never heard a LOT of tonal difference between a 24 3/4 and a 25.5, it was probably more for the huge stretches he did, which would help a bit. I'd be all over the idea but I can't even play a 24th fret until about a 27" scale, I have fatass fingers :lol:

    One last thing about him lighting up when others are soloing, the dude was a BIGTIME chain smoker. He probably couldn't really help it. I've never played in a band before, but I don't really see how getting a cig out and lighting up would be that bad when someone else has the center stage :shrug:
     
  8. ShadyDavey

    ShadyDavey 7ibrarian

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    Yeah, I know the Sig's are 24.8" but typed 25.5" for some reason - go figure :)

    I think the slightly smaller scale length was simply a factor due to the slightly lower string tension and commensurately smaller stretches (even if both were only marginal) and the fact that at that point in his career he really was suffering from reduced ability as a result of his arthritis.

    He used alternate picking predominantly, although there are a few places where he used economy.
     
  9. Dusty201087

    Dusty201087 Kenyon class of 2014

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    Yeah I'd imagine the shorter scale the better when you had arthritis as bad as he did :(

    And sweet. I don't think I'm going to switch over to this picking style full time, but I definitely will experiment more with it :yesway: Good topic!
     
  10. ShadyDavey

    ShadyDavey 7ibrarian

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    Check out his video's if you can dude, they're definately worth watching even just to cop a few licks from :)
     
  11. freepower

    freepower SS.org Regular

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    Massive Shawn Lane nut checking in... got 4.3GB of Lane sitting on the hard-drive as we speak.

    I'd say this is a lot to do with the fact that he didn't really think as a guitarist - he heard Bird, he used those licks, he heard Franz Liszt, he used those licks... whichever instrument he was on. He was a sick, sick, sick keyboard player, and a mean drummer.

    He has that wonderful Holdsworthian thing where you could kill for the ideas he throws away, eh? Seriously though - the changes he could follow and the ideas he PHRASED at speed...

    I mean, way up there at like, 16nps or so, everyone else is playing sequenced major scales or sweep licks... and Shawn's outlining chord substitutions and legato saxophone lines. Absolutely mind boggling.

    Interestingly, EJ and Shawn really dug each other, you'll hear the cliffs of dover lick all through Shawn's improv and EJ was influenced a fair bit by Shawn's approach to pentatonics - similarities all over the place if you look - even in their rhythm playing.

    I did wonder about that as well - Shawn had some pretty weird tone preferences but whatever he was aiming for with that sound I don't get it.

    Thats actually my favourite guitar solo ever, just goes to show how subjective music is - he always talked about the primal connections between blues and indian trad and I see that as his defining musical statement of his ideas.

    I would guess that the whole sunglasses/hat thing was to do with self-image. Who wants to be a young, brilliant musician trapped in a bloated, dying body? God forbid I said that (and indeed, don't on the MM forums, as his family still read the posts there), but Shawn had a rough, rough hand dealt to him and he coped better than I would have.

    As for the chair - well, he couldn't really stand. Honest to God.

    And the smoking I don't see the problem with. If I was playing with 4 other musicians who could hold the stage single handed I'd probably leave them that much space as well.

    That said, totally dug your post btw. :)

    Go on, I'll correct your mistakes, padawan. I'll answer a few quickies...

    He mutes with the palm and then it's pretty much all left hand muting. The guys left hand muting skills are ridiculous.

    As for anchoring, never on electric guitar, although I've seen him briefly pinky-anchor on his little acoustic travel-guitar.

    I'll totally +1 that. Shawn had crazy rubber hands - for most people, trying to copy his picking technique will just end up with extra tension and that's not good at all. Unless you can get his picking angle completely loose you're better off with a simpler Paul Gilbert hold, which I think is probably the most universally useful picking style.

    I actually had a pupil a few years back with hands as flexible as Shawn... we'll see where he ends up, eh?
     
  12. cyril v

    cyril v Contributor

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    impressive bump. i must've missed this a bunch of times. thanks
     
  13. includao

    includao Banned

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    i have normal thumbs and i can do the same benson picking technique without any undue tension.


    the problem is not with the THUMB. the pick position changes the ATTACK ANGLE. the attack angle make you concentrate yourself from movements of the wrist
     
  14. toneslinger

    toneslinger SS.org Regular

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    Hello toneslinger here I can add some to this discussion.

    After shawn had passed I had done alot of research on his sound his equipment ect,
    I found the guys who programmed the profex for shawn one of them being the guy
    who actually built shawns holmes heads he had moved from holmes to peavey
    after holmes stopped...

    After finding these guys and asking permission from Diane Shawns Mom and
    getting the green light from her I was fortunate to work with the original settings.

    These were sealed from the public after I found them and tracked these guys down
    at Dianes request..
    She asked that I not make those public and I wont but I can answer some questions here about delay and chorus and compression.

    The profex 2 units have all that built in.
    The delay times and overdrive settings were included in the basic patches.

    There were two basic patches one 3 band eq one 4 band.
    Inititally I surmised those might be pedal steel patches
    even checked those against the pedal steel and hair band patches peavey
    released from the factory...

    none were close !

    Keep in mind the guys that programmed this unit for Shawn worked at peavey one of which had worked for Holmes before this.

    I even tracked down the speaker source and spoke with the man
    whos grandfather delivered those speakers to Holmes and Peavey.

    He had no idea his grand dad had delivered any speakers to Holmes
    until his grand dad confirmed that for us.

    Back to the programming of the profex ..

    They basically captured the frequency curve of the Holmes westbury combination
    and loaded that into the profex 2.

    The settings are so complex you could set 1000 people down with the same units
    and say have at it and none would get them correct.

    I programmed a unit for the Lane family and sent them that including
    the settings I had to figure out which were not included.

    compression chorus reverb ect.

    I noted Shawn used valve verbs for reverb
    they sounded great and better than whats built in to the profex 2 settings.

    I dont have those so I used what was inside the profex 2.

    What I can say is the signal chain is most important
    ie where things are placed in the chain and it makes a huge difference
    in the sound if verb is before or after delay ect.

    I cant share the settings nor wont as I promised the family I would not do that.

    I can just say that the compression and chorus are built in and
    you indeed can find the settings with experimentation.

    Thats how I found what I consider to be the closest efx settings..

    The trans fex pro heads peavey came out with have same ram card
    but longer delays and better verbs.

    You can add 7 efx together on those and you cant do that on the profex 2

    Which is why I feel he used different verbs not only for sound sake but
    to free up space in the profex 2.

    I kinda of combined the best delay times I have which I copped from Eric Johnson
    who Ive known for about 32 years now.

    So some of the settings Ive made have hybrid efx settings...

    Some are as close as I can get to Shawns original recordings...
    Its taken several years to do that.

    Working at it daily for along time....

    The best clues I can give are these.

    experiment with placement of efx ie what goes first in chain.

    Most all of the settings are there minus the eq stuff which
    I can say are the most complex settings and Id never have come close to those
    without help.

    But just as Shawn said there are many many sounds in there and if you take the time
    you can get about any sound you want...

    They are in there and you can find them but it takes hours and hours of tweaking and using your ears...

    There is the lesson I learned even having the basic settings
    I still had to go song by song and figure delay times and efx
    placement ect to HEAR what sounded spot on to me.

    Most of the profex 2 units are being hoarded by pedal steel players
    cause Buddy Emmons uses them.

    I thought woah wonder if they are pedal steel settings ?
    So I went line by line comparing..

    None were even close and none of the hair band settings were close either.

    This makes sense as the guys cloned shawns holmes head and pedal
    together and they were after that sound not pedal steel or hair band sounds.

    But I can assure you all none were close and I did go through each one
    even other pedal steel settings made by others and none came close.

    What I can say is with these settings any guitar sounds awesome
    to prove that I took my least favorite guitars that sounded not so great
    and played them through this unit.

    Behold great sound great tones never before heard from those guitars.
    Even noticed that the tone knobs REALLY worked on these guitars and made
    a huge difference where as before nothing helped them.

    I feel besides Shawns great touch and feel and photographic memory
    this is key to why any guitar sounds fantastic through this unit.

    There are some mods you can do to those units
    one battery less mod and brown burr chip mods.

    I did those for all my profex units and heads.
    So I wont ever loose those settings once programmed in.

    You can back those to a card as well....
    make sure the card has a fresh 5 year battery before you even start though
    as those all go out too and thats why.

    Anyway I thought Id share what I can here to those seeking the same as I was.
    It can indeed all be found within the profex 2 or even better transfex pro heads.

    Though I wont ever play like Shawn did I at least can get in the ball park of that tone
    which in my opinion is the best I have ever played and heard.

    I own 3 68 plexi 100s one of which was Ejs for 16 years we traded heads.
    I own 2 twins A quinn dumble 150 watt head 4 holmes heads with 2 holmes 4 10 cabs.

    So I had quite a bit to compare too..
    I owned a bogner 100b and a two rock custom reverb.
    Swore Id never ever sell the bogner...

    The profex 2 and transfex pro heads ate it alive
    same with that two rock..

    I sold them both.

    I did side by side ab comparisons with both amps and
    sold them both that day.

    I have never had better tone in my life and Ive been chasing it since
    1978 when I first heard and saw and met Ej.

    For those who think solid state sucks and you cant get great tone from solid state
    you would be real shocked to know you can.

    The only tubes in this system are the preamp tubes in the westbury pedals !

    The rest is solid state ..

    No one was more shocked than me and I have those tube amps
    and they sit silent as investments now.

    So chorus compression and some of the delay he used was built right into the profex 2
    the verbs he used valve verb units by peavey.

    Later he used 3 line 6 delays ..
    But one thing was consistent in all of Shawns rigs..

    The peavey profex 2

    Even Bob gjika told me Shawn ran some preamp before his
    preamp power amp setup.

    He said it was some crappy peavey thing and had no idea why on earth shawn used that
    and refused not to ever stop using it.

    Bobs amps are amazing but I played them and they did not sound like shawn or ej.
    This was when Shawn was alive I worked at an amp company in Austin.

    Bob said oh Shawn puts his own tubes in them and thats why they sound like they do and I dont know which kind so I cant help you.

    That was true He did retube them..

    What Bob and most others missed was that preamp !

    What was consistent throughout Shawns life ?
    Holmes mud amps with westbury tube pedals.

    What did they clone for him at peavey in the crappy preamp as Bob put it ?

    Holmes mud amps and the westbury tube pedal.

    Why didnt Bobs amps sound like Shawn straight in ?

    Because he did not have Shawns preamp to make them do
    as he said.

    I know I have played Bobs amps and though he makes beautiful amps
    none that I played sounded anything like Shawns.

    I hope this clears some things up..

    No one can or will ever replace Shawn though and I gave my word
    id never share the specifics or the exact settings as those are private
    and sealed from the public...

    I wont do that either as I gave my word I wont.

    The answers are right there before you all inside the profex 2.

    You have to spend hours with it to find them..

    I spent 2 years with mine ...

    Take the time you can get very close if you do.

    Hope this helps

    peace
     
    BlackMetalVenom likes this.
  15. BlackMetalVenom

    BlackMetalVenom Vallz und Veinaz

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    I was never interested in anyone else's tone really, or Shawn's for that matter.
    But damn sir if your post isn't helpful and informative. +1 :yesway:
    I think everyone is going to go off and gas for some delay, chorus, and reverb pedals. :lol:
     
  16. toneslinger

    toneslinger SS.org Regular

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    Well Im sure everyone has what they are looking for by now
    Sorry for long post cant explain with less really..

    I was always searching for different tones Ej Shawn ect
    wont make me play any better but it helps inspire me
    to be better.

    Life is indeed too short to not have good tone.
    :yesway:
     
  17. amfahim

    amfahim SS.org Regular

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    Sorry to pick up this topic once more, but I am a Lane fanatic and new to the forum, so I would LOVE to see the indepth analysis!

    thanks in advance!
     
  18. ShadyDavey

    ShadyDavey 7ibrarian

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    You might have to PM the dude, not sure how often he visits SS.org these days but I know he mod's on UG so that might be the place to ask :)
     
  19. freepower

    freepower SS.org Regular

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    I'm the mod on UG, he's banned. :lol:

    Plus, having done a seriously in depth look at Shawn's picking - he's not doing that much unusual apart from the backwards angle, he's just much, much better than most people. :)

    If you want to get started take a look at this vid and take a look at Shawn (the close ups of the right hand in Power Licks are especially helpful) -
     
  20. amfahim

    amfahim SS.org Regular

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    Oh ok. Thanks both shadey and freepower, I do have both power licks and power solos and am trying to change my normal right hand technique to something like him, but it's taking a lot breaking down my existing method of so long. Now that I am trying to follow this particular bent thumb style, I am noticing quite a few other greats have the same style as well. Just noticed Steve Vai has a pretty bent thumb, although he doesn't angle the pick upwards. Any thoughts?
     

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