Scammed Through A Paypal Chargeback

Discussion in 'Site News & Support' started by zephyrkillz, Oct 31, 2013.

  1. zephyrkillz

    zephyrkillz SS.org Regular

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    At this point, I'm going to try and talk you out of shipping that guitar. Try selling it on craigslist, even if you have to shave a bit off the selling price. Its just awful because it could be months and out of nowhere surprise you and immediately bring a tornado of stress into your life.

    I currently cant sleep and when I can, email notifications jolt me awake because of the dread of getting an email from paypal with bad news. I couldnt even mentally function today at work. At the gas station I started filling up my tank, went in the store to get a drink, came back to the car and started to drive off when i realized the hose was still in the tank, no damage, just an example of how mentally drained I was today. All I can think about is how horrendous and time consuming the process of getting my money or guitar back is going to be. The anxiety unexplainable. I sold the guitar to fund my iphone case startup, I'm in the middle of finding manufactures but with a crippled paypal account I am grounded and my startup development has come to a halt. If your willing to risk going through something like this, then ship the guitar but honestly I'd highly advise to just try and sell it on craigslist locally.
     
  2. straightshreddd

    straightshreddd Dat Dood

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    Oh, my f*cking god, dude. This is a goddamn horror film right now. I'm too drunk to even be rational.

    Fuuuck. I'm going to talk to Paypal tomorrow and try to figure out the best possible solution. I'm so sorry for the shit you're going through, man. I'd have a beer with you if I could.

    I'm gonna see what they say and if they give me a foolproof option, I'll go with it. Should I hit up the guy and, like, ask him if he'd do some shit like this? Nothing has happened yet, but I'm f*cking scared now, man.
     
  3. MaxOfMetal

    MaxOfMetal Likes trem wankery. Super Moderator

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    It's not Paypal's fault, that was my point. It was the OP's, hence me saying sorry.

    Reread what Paypal said. When you use the gift option both parties are covered less. If "regular" Paypal was used the OP would have fraud protection through Paypal, both sides lose that when going for Paypal Gift.
     
  4. ihunda

    ihunda SS.org Regular

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    ^ got it, I was reacting cause I actually heard of paypal scams with a regular non gift transaction where the buyer simply declare that the transaction was unauthorized via paypal web interface and basically the seller is screwed even with the fraud protection as paypal mostly sides with the buyer by default.

    I also was screwed with an issue with Prymaxe where I got broken a JP12 and paypal simply admitted that the protection would only have worked if I bought from ebay... go figure as I paid the same fees than if it was an ebay deal and I had to pull an Amex to get my money back.
     
  5. leonardo7

    leonardo7 Banned

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    If you can contact his credit card company you might be able to bring about some type of fraudulence on his part. Credit card companies wouldn't have just reversed a charge because he wanted them to. He had to have a reason that qualifies. Id be willing to bet that he lied to them about his reason for the charge back.

    Also, this is why it is sometimes a good idea to just list on ebay and then only ship to verified addresses, or as mentioned, dont ever sell to someone with no iTrader etc. But thats after the fact now.
     
  6. Chuck

    Chuck SS.org Regular

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    Sorry man but when YOU make an agreement to use the gift option you are giving up all protection. It's your fault for not being cautious.

    At least PayPal is helping you at all at this point.
     
  7. ElRay

    ElRay Mostly Harmless

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    I would have filed the instant I received notice of the chargeback.

    I don't know what you can do with UPS, but if it was USPS, I'd also file a mail fraud claim.

    Bullshit or not, it's irrelevant. Police aren't involved until the judgment is served, then in many jurisdictions, they're required to enforce the judgement. And, in small claims court, lawyers cannot be used other than for advice.

    Ray
     
  8. Jonathan20022

    Jonathan20022 Engineer

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    I don't understand how this is the OP's fault, if the buyer chose to skimp out and save on fees this should all be on him. The OP should feel even more secure knowing that Paypal drops the protection for the buyer in case he is a scammer. The buyer just found a loophole and is taking hin on a ride now.

    I've been in a chargeback situation before via eBay. My item was sent out, and it was practically gone now, Paypal refunded the Buyer and also paid me. But the only reason that happened is because I paid for my shipping label through eBay and they could 100% verify that something had happened.
     
  9. MaxOfMetal

    MaxOfMetal Likes trem wankery. Super Moderator

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    The OP didn't know this Caparison092 guy from a hole in the wall, and no one else does either apparently.

    I'm not saying to only do transactions with folks you're on a first name basis with, but at least do a little research. The lack of previous online sales is a BIG red flag in my book, same with going with someone who has zero online ties of accountability.

    Plus, the OP could have negotiated the terms of payment. I've had guys try and send me cash via Paypal Gift and I've sent it right back. If they don't have the cash to cover the fees, they don't have the cash for the item, and if I'm that desperate to sell I probably need to evaluate a few things.

    I'm not trying to hog on the OP anymore, and I do feel really bad for them, especially since this deal was through here, a place that I feel somewhat responsible for. I just think if a few more checks were made, this wouldn't have happened. It has little to do with the Paypal situation itself and all to do with going with trusted buyers/sellers.

    I hope this situation can show others that just because someone finally hit 100 posts, has an eBay account [with little usage/traffic], and a Paypal doesn't mean they're on the level. I also hope this persuades others into just eating the fees, or do what I do and have the buyer eat them.
     
  10. gunshow86de

    gunshow86de Beef Jerky Time Contributor

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    While I agree with most of what you're saying, Caparison092 actually has a decent online presence.

    He has previous sales on here, seems like only to Engage (for whatever that is worth :lol:) based on the Caps that I remember Engage selling on here.

    http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/search.php?searchid=6694383

    He has good feedback on eBay, as well as profiles on Caprison forum and a YouTube channel.

    https://www.google.com/#q=Caparison092
     
  11. JoshuaVonFlash

    JoshuaVonFlash SSBRO.org regular

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    Sorry to hear this dude but, I would've went to the police as soon as this popped up, if you haven't do it now and contact the credit card company. I know your reeling from this but the more proactive you are the quicker you can get your money back or your guitar back ( if he hasn't sold it) I checked his page and was online on Halloween. Good luck with this though.
     
  12. MaxOfMetal

    MaxOfMetal Likes trem wankery. Super Moderator

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    He has zero iTrader: SevenString.org - View Profile: Caparison092

    And hasn't used eBay in almost 12 months, at least for significant purchases.
     
  13. Watty

    Watty Naturally Cynical

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    Wasn't he the guy with the PRS Private stock that he seemed to have commissioned?

    Edit: Meaning that he shouldn't be the type to have balked at the $1200...
     
  14. Volteau

    Volteau the Bard Contributor

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    'Cause we live in a society so cynical that if you are alone in your house and decide to leave a door open to let the breeze in and some guy decides he wants to walk in, shoot you in the face and steal all of your stuff, it is now YOUR fault and nobody else's for wanting to leave the door open. Yeah, just ignore the other guy's motivations (and existence) and categorically state that "it's his (the victim's) and only his fault". I find this type of "victim blaming" argument to be so f***ed up. Yes, the OP failed to take some of the necessary precautions in his sale, but when you are the seller you feel much more confident (especially since it was PP gift) of any transactions and deals you might make because the other party "makes the first move", meaning they pay first and then you ship. In fact, I take back part of the "failing to take the necessary precautions", for he did require a signature as evidence of delivery. Also, some of you should stop being so dense. PayPal's protection is for the buyer, hence the label Buyer Protection. As Jon already said, the buyer found a loophole through the credit card company, not through paypal.

    To the mods: Sorry. I've never written a rant like this on the forums before, but this type of hostile attitude towards a fellow member is disconcerting.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2013
    flexkill and Datura like this.
  15. Jonathan20022

    Jonathan20022 Engineer

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    I'm just going to dump out the funds on my Paypal to my Bank Account from now on the second I get them. If someone decides to do this to me, and Paypal calls me saying that the account is -$xxx I'll just tell them to figure it out themselves because it's their job to protect us a buyer from loopholes like these. If anything, I'd expect them to take the hit from their own pockets rather than mine, at least if I have my money in my bank I have an extra hopefully "helpful" layer of security in my banking.

    This is just incredibly unfortunate, the only thing he can do is wait and hope that Paypal and the Credit Card company come to an agreement in his favor.

    If it helps man, I was in a situation where a buyer claimed unauthorized use of his account when someone bought a $100 Gift Card I sold for about $70. I was left with the funds removed from my account, but in the end after I provided proof and a feud for about 30 days I received my funds since USPS couldn't recover the gift card. I hope it turns out the same way for you, 1200 is a MUCH larger hit.
     
  16. zephyrkillz

    zephyrkillz SS.org Regular

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    Justice is on my side, I'm not really worried about the money because my evidence is sound and through small claims court I know I can get it back. The guitar is gone, I know he sold it becuase I saw one of his facebook friends post "thanks for the guitar". This post on facebook probably exists somewhere but I cant view his page because he blocked me. I just really hope paypal can be my "pal" here and investigate the situation entirely. I'm 23 years old, that means I have around 60 or so more years to do business online with paypal. If they cant protect me from $1200.00 then they'll be loosing tens of thousands of dollars from doing future business with me.
     
  17. leonardo7

    leonardo7 Banned

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    He can go to prison for lying about his reason for the charge back. You cannot just call your credit card company and say "uh yeah, I like wanted to do a charge back". Its not that easy! They always ask you why and you have to attest to your legitimate reasoning. If you get caught lying about why you need to do the charge back then you can serve time for that. There is evidence of him signing for the guitar as well as communication between the two of you. Not only will you win, but he will serve time in prison for essentially committing credit card fraud! Paypal should be able to fix this one for you if your persistent. You can contact the FBI about this too. They take credit card fraud quite seriously.
     
  18. SpaceDock

    SpaceDock Shred till your dead

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    I think the most important factor here is that the guy had to claim unauthorized access to his account. You have clear evidence that he authorized the payment and that invalidates his claim. I think you would still be out the money even if you used non gift PayPal and someone had stolen his info and bought the guitar illegally. Maybe PayPal backs you up if somene does order from yu with stolen PayPal accounts, idk.
     
  19. leonardo7

    leonardo7 Banned

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    Nobody stole his info. The guy is lying about that, and he lied to his credit card company about it too. Someone didnt hack in to his sevenstring.org account and then also hack in to his paypal account, and then also be at his place to sign for the guitar :lol:
     
  20. leonardo7

    leonardo7 Banned

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    If the guy is claiming that someone else bought the guitar with his hacked account then how can he legally sell the guitar? That would clearly be another crime. This guy has committed so many crimes its not even funny. It means that he knowingly sold stolen property while said property was a part of a federal investigation. Once he claims to his credit card company that his account was hacked it is then a federal investigation. Whether it is actually being investigated at a federal level or not doesn't matter. All "credit charge backs" go in to a category that places it in to a section classified as a federal case.
     

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