Scammed Through A Paypal Chargeback

Discussion in 'Site News & Support' started by zephyrkillz, Oct 31, 2013.

  1. zephyrkillz

    zephyrkillz SS.org Regular

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    Incident summary: Sold a caparison guitar in august, transaction via paypal gift. Shipped guitar UPS with tracking number. Buyer signed for package, closed deal and both parties are happy. On oct 11 I get a paypal chargeback notification for the guitar. I have the UPS tracking number, address, delivery confirmation, names and phone numbers. Paypal is currently disputing claim with the buyers credit card company.

    Incident In Detail:

    Back in August I sold my caparison dellinger hgs: http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/guitars-sale-trade-wanted/245305-caparison-dellinger-hgs.html

    Caparison092 bought the guitar for $1200.00, sent payment via paypal gift. [​IMG]

    I shipped the guitar, (have the tracking number at moderators request), guitar arrives, buyer signed for it and everything was well. On October 11th I get a chargeback for the $1200 from the buyers paypal, "the payment was not authorized".
    [​IMG]
    I first texted the buyer asking about the charge back, his response was "nah man i havent had a paypal account in months. My old one got hacked". Keep in mind that this transaction happened only a month ago, not a matter of months. Inconsistent. [​IMG]

    I call paypal immediately, the agent asks for a tracking number, I gave her the tracking #, everything checks out and there is a delivery confirmation and signature. (Again, I have the tracking number if a moderator would like to look over it). The agent lifts the hold on the funds and they are credited back to my account. The agent tells me to watch for emails about the dispute and that based on cases she has seen like this, I will be fine since there is a tracking number. Buyer tells me through text that he'll call paypal and have them reverse the chargeback. Chargeback was never reversed, buyer claims paypal said they would reverse. (see pictures below of all text conversations).

    Yesterday, october 30th, I got an email from paypal saying that the chargeback has been settled and my paypal balance is -$1220, the chargeback went through because by law paypal has to refund the credit card company and since it was a gift, its not protected by paypal. However, paypal is still disputing the claim with the credit card company, paypal DOES have the tracking number and delivery confirmation.

    Once again I contacted the buyer, he said he's on vacation and wont be able to handle it until nov 12th. He's also since moved accross the country, sold the guitar almost immediately after I sold it to him, (I have no screenshots to prove this since I cannot view his facebook page but he said in the texts he sold it to someone named "Blair"), and blocked me from his facebook account as of yesterday, he says its because his fiance left him and he doesnt want girl drama on facebook. I find all of this to be extremely odd, especially the fact that he said he cant handle the situation until he gets back. He couldnt make one phone call to paypal? He then said that he would call and "get a ticket # asap", he never sent me a ticket #.

    As of right now paypal told me it could take up to 75 days for the dispute to be fully settled and they are trying their best to get my money back. The way the situation stands, my guitar has basically been stolen. I have evidence of payment, ups tracking number, addresses, phone number and names. I strongly feel that the buyer has taken advantage of the chargeback option through paypal to scam me.

    Here are all of the texts from the buyer, I can provide his name and phone number at a moderators request to verify.[​IMG]

    Has anyone here ever dealt with chargebacks before? Has anyone recently sold or traded with "caparison092" and have the same chargeback problem? He claimed that 10 people were asking him to contact paypal about chargebacks.

    Thanks for your help in advance,

    -Alec Larson
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Tyler

    Tyler SS.org Regular

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    The guy has a nice slew of subscribers on youtube, try contacting him through there and see if you get any response. Really douche move on his part and I hope everything works out.
     
  3. MaxOfMetal

    MaxOfMetal Likes trem wankery. Super Moderator

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    How many issues like this are going to happen before folks just eat the extremely small Paypal fee? :shrug:

    How much research did you do on this guy? Five seconds of searching and I can see he has ZERO iTrader feedback, only 2 transactions on eBay in the last year, and no listed public contact info. That's Red Flag City if you wanted to use Paypal gift.

    Let us know how this goes, but there's really nothing we [Mods] can do here. I guess if he does wind up screwing you (though, technically YOU screwed you) we can ban him, but we're not cops, we can't get you what you're out, hence why you really need to protect yourself in these situations.

    Sorry if what I'm saying is harsh. :shrug:
     
  4. djpharoah

    djpharoah Awwww Yeaaaah Super Moderator

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  5. zephyrkillz

    zephyrkillz SS.org Regular

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    Your right, an expensive lesson. I believe paypal will get it sorted with the credit card company, after all my case is just. I just wanted to warn other members.
     
  6. toiletstand

    toiletstand /\'...'/\

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    Hope you can get this sorted. But i always go out of my way to pay for items as goods. best of luck dude!
     
  7. thrsher

    thrsher \m/-_-\m/

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    isnt this backwards? i thought people sending money as gift cannot file a claim? that they are the ones loosing the protect.
     
  8. MaxOfMetal

    MaxOfMetal Likes trem wankery. Super Moderator

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    If the account connected via credit card, you can still charge back through the bank that issued the card. PayPal didn't do a charge back, the credit card company did, and PayPal is passing that onto the OP.
     
  9. Jonathan20022

    Jonathan20022 Engineer

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    This is pretty much why I rarely buy via Paypal gift unless it's a very small purchase, it's a small fee like $50 out of like $2000. But apparently now you can completely override this if you bought via a credit card, the credit card companies and Paypal should be in agreement in regards to "Gifting" money to someone else.

    Everything he's saying sounds really sketchy and it looks like he's avoiding you in all honesty. I sincerely hope you get this sorted and get your money back, I'll be wary of things like this in the future.

    If Paypal grants him the money, I will seriously reconsider using Paypal depending on the outcome of this situation.
     
  10. ElRay

    ElRay Mostly Harmless

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    Hence my suggestion to immediately delete any FS thread that says "PayPal Gift Only". If the buyer and seller want to negotiate that later, fine, but it shouldn't be a requirement right off the bat.

    I notice there's still no iTrader entry here for the sale. How do people expect the system to work if it isn't used?

    Ray
     
  11. flexkill

    flexkill Vodka & PentaTonic

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    I refuse to use PayPal....EVER. I use and have always used Postal Money Orders. PayPal can eat my ass after a deal I had go terribly bad years ago. People always tell me that it has changed and PayPal is way better now....yet I constantly see crap Like this. USPMO leaves both parties protected. I have had people to refuse to deal with me because of my refusal to use PayPal.....and we just didn't do business.

    OP I hope you get it all straight man.:yesway:
     
  12. Chuck

    Chuck SS.org Regular

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    ^ not PayPal's fault lol
     
  13. leonardo7

    leonardo7 Banned

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    First and foremost, the buyer is a lying sack of shit! Dont believe anything that he says about his account being hacked, moving, girl stuff, facebook, that he will call paypal, that hes on vacation, that he sold the guitar to a guy named Blair. Every single thing he has told you is BS from what I can tell. Report the guitar stolen with his local police department. Tell him that he can simply send the guitar back and you wont press charges. He hasnt moved across the country. All of the stuff that he told you is like the obvious stuff that a thief says in a situation like this. An understanding of psychology will point to everything he has told you to be classic lies that someone would say in this situation. He didnt move and hes not on vacation. He probably still has the guitar too.

    Where did you ship to? File a stolen guitar report with the local PD and let Paypal know that you have done that. Contact the company that delivered it. Please tell me that you required signature by him and only him. He would have had to show ID to get the package and will instantly lose the dispute.
     
  14. flexkill

    flexkill Vodka & PentaTonic

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    PayPal= Problems in my book...that was my point....:spock:
     
  15. zephyrkillz

    zephyrkillz SS.org Regular

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    Thanks for the support guys. A couple major things should raise a red flag during paypals investigation/dispute with the credit card company:

    #1. Why did the buyer take so long to file a chargeback for an unauthorized payment? It wouldnt take a month and a half to notice an unauthorized $1200 payment, if it really was unauthorized then why wasnt it filed much much earlier? For example, a major reason there would be an unauthorized payment is if a credit card was stolen, it wouldnt take months to report a stolen credit card. It would have been almost immediately reported stolen and the chargeback would have occurred much earlier, even hours after the transaction.

    #2. There is a UPS tracking number, delivery confirmation of the item delivered to the paypal users home address with signature.


    Ok, then it will be paypals fault if a competing online money transfer company comes along, offers better service to its users and the market forgets about paypal completely. Free market prevails.

    As a seller and paypal customer, I have sound evidence of a shipped item insured for $1200, delivery confirmation to the other paypal user after a payment was received. It would be utterly awful business practice by paypal to not protect me.

    I'll keep you guys updated on this situation of course. It will be very disturbing if this goes horribly wrong for me, what would be the safest way to sell through paypal if this kind of loophole exists? A chargeback could be filed regardless of the payment being gifted or for commercial purposes. I just need to clarify if paypal protection would cover chargebacks from a credit card company if the payment was commercial and the seller paid the fee.
     
  16. zephyrkillz

    zephyrkillz SS.org Regular

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    Good points. Its funny that as soon as I told him that I will be taking him to small claims court he announces that he has a "job as a cop" and "his dad is a lawyer", obvious bullshit.

    Absolutely I required a signature, not entirely sure if it required that he show ID but I shipped via UPS and it was shipped to his name/address.
     
  17. straightshreddd

    straightshreddd Dat Dood

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    F*ckin' a, man. I feel for you, bud. Reading this scared the living shit out of me. I just had a paypal gift transaction with a member over seas and I did not think this could happen. I have yet to ship the guitar until final payment is received, but I will be taking Leo's advice and requiring ID and signing for delivery. Any other tips for after the transaction has been made? I'm am motherf*cking terrified right now.
     
  18. ihunda

    ihunda SS.org Regular

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    I don't see why this would be paypal's fault?

    And doing regular paypal as opposed to gift would not change anything since he did a CC chargeback, actually the scam would have been easier without PP gift, two options for chargeback instead of one, no?

    Exactly, sounds like they are actually helping....
     
  19. Hollowway

    Hollowway Extended Ranger

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    I thought if there was a chargeback the CC company would contact the seller to see what their side of the story is? Did anyone contact you? Can you ask PP to give you the contact at the CC company?

    And I definitely agree that you should file a polic report. Check to see if there is some sort of fraud occurring with respect to the internet or mailing as well. Many times situations like this have more significant charges from one of those more esoteric laws than just theft.
     
  20. zephyrkillz

    zephyrkillz SS.org Regular

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    The only type of contact I received was an email from paypal notifying me of the chargeback and that I could submit files, (like tracking #) to the dispute. I have not asked paypal to provide me a contact for the CC company, I'm not sure if they would even reveal that information. Good idea, I'll try. As far as a police report, should I wait until the dispute is settled with paypal or start the process of filing now?
     

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