Same Sex Marriage now Legal in entire United States of America

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Explorer, Jun 26, 2015.

  1. vilk

    vilk Very Regular

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    It might be hard for someone not religious to understand, but there are people who wholeheartedly believe that there is an infinitely powerful being whose intention is to torture all homosexuals after death for eternity. I'd imagine some of them might even think that God will start interjecting with mortal affairs just because homosexuality upsets him so much. Or, at least that's what they say they believe.

    But all I'm saying is that you have to cut these people some slack--we all might be saying/doing ludicrous things if we believed such inane nonsense. That's why we have a gov't system where we can make laws like this, because there's no changing certain inherent problems with people.

    I do sometimes wonder if it's a good thing that I take the same approach to accepting religious people that I do for accepting people with mental disabilities. I kinda do believe that once this country gets some kind of psychological health-care system running smooth, people who use religion to ratify bigoted ideas will probably have to go through counseling. Which is probably exactly what they need.
     
  2. pfizer

    pfizer SS.org Regular

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    I live in a country with a strong Catholic background combined with Confucian ideals; in short, a HIGHLY homophobic setting.

    We treat gays and transgenders here as kind of a sideshow attraction -- we have a lot of openly gay celebrities but they are tended to be a looked at in a perpetually comedic light.

    Here's my take; if you follow the law, if you pay your taxes, if you are both consenting adults, then you deserve all the rights of any other citizen. Bible thumpers love quoting Leviticus when the thing mentions women as property in the very same breath as homosexuality.

    And I just fricking love being assumed gay when I say I support gay rights and marriage. Here's an actual conversation I had:

    "Why do you support it? You're gay too, aren't you?"
    "Well, not now."
    "Huh?"
    "I mean, so FAR, I'm straight. Maybe I just have really high standards and I just haven't met the right man to make me re-consider. You never know, I might do a late-in-life turn."

    The faces the homophobes make gives me life.
     
  3. ElRay

    ElRay Mostly Harmless

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    More ignorance. Married couples are TAXED at a higher rate; however, withholding is less. The assumption is still that married couples will have a lower average income due to either one spouse (e.g. the female) not working, one spouse (e.g. the female) having a much lower income, or increased deductions for children, therefore, they can get by with lower withholding.

    If a married couple is dual-income-no-kids/no-mortgage and the average income doesn't move the higher income spouse into a lower tax bracket, then the couple will get NAILED if they withhold at the married rate. Especially on state taxes.

    When my wife and I were D-I-N-Ks, we had to set our withholding to S-2/S-0 (Fed/State) in order to not owe taxes each year.
     
  4. Duosphere

    Duosphere (oYo) Lover

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    I know, the problem with religious people(of course not all of them) is they apply human feelings to God(or whatever they believe), I mean imagine you're God, you're not only able to travel through the whole universe but you can CREATE universes, you can create whatever you want and do whatever you want, would you care about what humans do in their beds?Or about their colors?
    OF COURSE NOT, those are stupid humans feelings!
    Even worse, religious people think they can do things in the name of God like God asked them to do whatever they think is right in His name, that's absurd, so isn't God able to defend Himself or speak by Himself?
    Nonsense.
    He's God, He can do whatever He wants including "deleting" any planet/universe He got bored about it.
    A creature so powerful to me is against life cause life is all about balance, look to nature, 100% in perfect balance so God is against balance = against life.But still people are free to believe in whatever they need BUT NEVER to act in His name, never.
    Psychos are bad, killers are bad, drug addicts are bad, bad people are bad, dumb people are bad..........gays.........they never made sex in front of me, what are their bad powers?Making sex with the same sex and helping this crowded planet with birth control and adopting abandoned children?I can't see how God would be against that :lol:
     
  5. Glosni

    Glosni SS.org Regular

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  6. Explorer

    Explorer He seldomly knows...

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    One thing which I constantly run across on other forums is the "slippery slope" argument, about how allowing two consenting adults to marry will lead to sex with children, animals, etc.

    It's strange that everyone seems to have the same blind spot when asking what could possibly stop bestiality and child marriages. Really? You really aren't familiar with the idea of adult consent?

    What's extremely shocking about this is that a lot of the groups which have argued that another adult human doesn't deserve the same rights is that they also don't mind having sex with someone who can't consent.

    Women and young girls in some US religious groups are viewed as property, with child marriages happening without adult consent. Nazis and American slave owners would assert that Jews and blacks (respectively) weren't fully human... and then would decide to have sex with those same animals.

    wut.

    I do have friends who are evangelical fundamentalist Christians, and who have occasionally made positive arguments for those weird old-church-dude/young-underage-bride marriages. No one has argued about the claimed "slippery slope" thing in my presence since I promised to point out the huge logs in their eyes, but if they do bring it up in the future, I am curious if they now feel that the religious freedoms they previously argued for are actually dangerous and in favor of the slippery slope they claimed was a bad thing....
     
  7. vilk

    vilk Very Regular

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    I think that they don't really believe that. They've just been told it is an appropriate excuse/ratification for saying gays shouldn't marry. I'd fathom that many people who allegedly don't want gays to marry/ gay people to exist actually don't really have any investment that "belief", but they've just been pulled really deep into whatever religious fervor the people around them have. For whatever reasons (and I'm sure there are many that are varied), old people feel very uncomfortable about homosexuality. I think that as a society we are slowly doing away with that. Eventually people will be comfortable with homosexuality, and they'll all still be "christians" who claim to have a problem with whatever their preacher has a problem with.

    I guess I got kinda off point, but I'm just saying no one at the core of gay haters is saying so because they're actually concerned with a "slippery slope". They just plain don't like gays.
     
  8. Chokey Chicken

    Chokey Chicken mouth breather

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    I think the more accurate thing to say is that they believe it, but only because they've been taught since birth and they haven't put any critical thinking into it.

    It'll definitely get better, but just like racism it'll never completely dissappear.

    My favorite joke involving the slippery slope thing is "a man asks another man to have sex, he can accept or deny. Ask a horse and they'll always say nay."
     
  9. Explorer

    Explorer He seldomly knows...

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    Bingo!

    There is a lot of animus hidden behind claims of religious beliefs.

    One of the clerks who denied a marriage license to a gay couple, based on her Biblical beliefs, has been divorced 3 times and married 4. She's down with Leviticus as long as she can ignore what it says about divorce.

    It would be interested if the courts decided to investigate if something is genuinely a firmly held religious belief, as opposed to just hiding behind a claim of such.
     
  10. celticelk

    celticelk Enflamed with prayer

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    For all that I'm critical of the uses to which "religious freedom" is currently being put, I think that having courts decide whether a particular person's religious beliefs are sincere is a really horrible idea.
     
  11. Explorer

    Explorer He seldomly knows...

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    I agree that it's hard to have *anyone* judge what is an actual religious belief, and what is just someone taking on religious camouflage for some perceived advantage.

    However, my great suspicion is that a lot of politicians who try to extend their faith upon others through the use of their public office will be the some ones who fight to get courts to stop recognizing faiths like the Satanic Temple.

    Personally, I think it would be easier if the new interpretation of "no law regarding" a religion also meant that no religion should be treated differently from other organizations, including having to pay taxes on property instead of getting special treatment. That special treatent is written into the law, so it should be removed.
     

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