Randall V2 with GSP1101 & Control 2 foot pedal.

Discussion in 'Gear & Equipment' started by ryan9896, Feb 15, 2011.

  1. ryan9896

    ryan9896 Rip it!!!!!!!!!!

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    okay everyone, here is my question:

    i have a Randall V2 head which has a midi "in" & a midi "thru" on the back panel. the channels, fx loop, & EQ are all turned on/off via midi from the factory with the factory footswitch from Randall.

    i also have the GSP1101 effects processor with the Control 2 foot pedal to go along with it. this device also has a midi "in" & midi "thru" on the back panel.

    from what i read in the user manuals for both units, i should be able to get rid of the factory Randall footswitch completely, program the GSP1101 along with the Control 2 foot controller to send midi commands to my Randall V2 head. so i can have, for example, preset 44 turn on my V2 channel 3, EQ, & FX loop along with whatever effects i want from the GSP1101 and program that preset to whatever foot button i want on the Control 2. so basically, i want to control the Randall V2 & the GSP1101 simultaneously with the Control 2 pedal.

    but i don't understand all this MIDI CC terminology, MIDI messages, MIDI programs, etc. i see the Randall user's manual that it will respond to 16 different incoming midi messages, and it shows what each of the 16 messages will cause the amp to do. but i don't get how to tell the GSP1101 what signals to send to my randall?? there are so many different midi program modes in the gsp, some are incoming, some are outgoing....i just want someone to clear up all this midi mumbo jumbo and explain to me what needs to be done, what these terms mean, and if anyone has experience using randall "midi" heads with an effects units like the gsp1101. any advice would be helpful i'm sure.



    here is my setup, for reference:

    Randall V2
    DigiTech GSP1101
    Control 2
    ISP Decimator ProRack G
    Furman power conditioner
    X2 digital wireless
     
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  2. yingmin

    yingmin Parker über alles

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    From what I understand, the Control 2 is designed only to control the GSP. I can take a glance at the manual, but if I have it right, anything will have to be programmed from the GSP itself, not the Control 2.

    edit: yep, the Control 2 doesn't really do anything on its own. What you'll need to do is read up on pages 48-50 in the GSP's manual. Basically, you can set up 16 universal CC controllers and 8 controllers per preset to control whatever you want, but all of this has to be done from the GSP itself.
     
  3. ryan9896

    ryan9896 Rip it!!!!!!!!!!

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    yes, i understand that. there is no direct midi control from the control 2....but, the control 2 will communicate with the GSP, then the GSP can communicate via midi with my randall v2. i have concluded that already. my confusion is what needs to be done to gsp unit and the randall head to program the communication between the two. and as i said, i need to understand all the terminology with midi in general. cuz i have both manuals, and they explain how to do it, i just don't understand what it's telling me to do!!!!!!

    this is what i get from the directions, please correct me if i'm wrong:

    -i select a GSP preset, for example preset #44, which will be assigned to a patch/button on the control 2.

    -then, i decide which of the 16 program changes the randall V2 head is able to receive, which are all listed in the V2 manual, specifying what each program change will do. for example, program change #1 will turn on channel 1, FX loop, & EQ on the randall V2.

    -then, i assign a MIDI CC (#1 ???) to preset #44 on the GSP, which should command preset #44 to send program change #1 to my randall via MIDI, causing the amp settings to react and the GSP preset to engage.


    after a week of reading manuals and forums, i believe this is what needs to be done, what do you think??
     
  4. yingmin

    yingmin Parker über alles

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    Close, but no. The problem is that the GSP doesn't seem to be able to send out program change messages, which are different from controller change messages. If it sent out PCs, this would be so much easier. Fortunately, you can send out up to 8 CCs per preset, which is good, because you need at least 3 to fully control the V2.

    For example, if you wanted to call up preset #1 on the V2, (ch1, effects off, EQ off), you'd have to use three CCs: 56 - 127 (channel 1); 59 - 0 (effects off), 60 - 0 (effects off). The reason for this is that if you only used the CC to change the channel, the parameters for effects and EQ would remain unchanged from the previous preset. If you never use the EQ or effects, or leave them on all the time, then this is a lot easier, because you only need to use one CC to control the amp.

    Edit: wait a minute, I just noticed something I missed before: the send MIDI programs parameter. Turn this on, and program changes will be sent out to correspond to the program number on the GSP. This means that now, all you have to do is call up a preset on the GSP, set the amp how you want it, and save the preset. Hopefully.
     
  5. ryan9896

    ryan9896 Rip it!!!!!!!!!!

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    ahhhhh, okay....that's what i was confused about, i didn't know the difference between PC's and CC's. and i didn't understand the control values. but you just cleared it up for me. here are the listed control changes in the V2 manual:

    Control Change #56 (w/Control Value 127 = on) allows for “Instant Access” selection of Channel 1.
    Control Change #57 (w/Control Value 127 = on) allows for “Instant Access” selection of Channel 2.
    Control Change #58 (w/Control Value 127 = on) allows for “Instant Access” selection of Channel 3.
    Control Change #59 (w/Control Value 0 = off & 127 = on) allows for “Instant Access” of the FX Loop.
    Control Change #60 (w/Control Value 0 = off & 127 = on) allows for “Instant Access” of the Graphic EQ.

    Control Change #61 (w/Control Value 0 = off & 127 = on) allows for “Instant Access” of the Mute Output.


    so whichever of these control changes i want, i would select in the "preset edit" menu of the GSP and assign that control change to the desired preset number, correct??

    also, i would need to turn the "midi send" option ON in the GSP menu so it will actually send the control changes....

    edit: i would be leaving the EQ & the FX loop on at all times, no matter what channel/preset i use. so if i leave those on at all times, do i still need to send the control changes for these?? or can i just send the control canges for the channel select and just let the EQ and FX loop stay on all the time? if i don't send a control change to turn the FX loop & EQ on, will they stay on or turn off when i change channels??
     
  6. yingmin

    yingmin Parker über alles

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    Sorry for the confusion, but the edit contradicted the rest of my post. If I'm reading these manuals correctly, you actually don't need to worry about CCs at all, unless you wanted to do something like turn the EQ on or off within a preset. Turn "send MIDI pgms" on in the GSP, and then every time you change presets on the GSP, it will send out a program change to the V2. That means that if you call up preset #44 on the GSP, the V2 will also change to #44. All you have to do after that is save preset #44 on the V2 how you want it.
     
  7. ryan9896

    ryan9896 Rip it!!!!!!!!!!

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    okay, first thing....thanks for your help yingman, i feel like i've made alot of progress with your info.

    but how do i change the settings on the V2?? how do i find out what the factory presets are for the V2?? it say's it has factory default presets, and it lists them all, alot of them are duplicates, but i see them in the manual.

    but this raises another concern......if i change the preset on the gsp1101, and your saying it will automatically change the V2 to that preset #, that means i would have to go through every preset on the gsp and set the V2 the way i want it for each preset?? actually, i could just turn off the midi option within the preset menu if i don't want it to change my amp, correct?? and only turn it on for the presets i do want to communicate with the V2?? this way i would only have to program the V2 with the presets i have the midi cc turned on....
     
  8. yingmin

    yingmin Parker über alles

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    As far as I can tell, the send MIDI prgm is a global setting, so you couldn't just turn it on and off to your liking. It's either on or it's off. As far as programming the V2 with each preset, it sounds like it works exactly the same way as my Marshall JVM. All you'd have to do is call up the preset on the GSP, push whichever combination of buttons you want active (channel/effects/EQ), and hold down the STORE button on the V2. I've never used one of these amps, and I'm not exactly going over the V2 manual with a fine-toothed comb, but I do exactly the same thing using my G System to switch my JVM, and it's actually really simple, because then you don't have to worry about menus at all. Call up a preset, push two or three buttons on the amp, save, and you're done. And I don't imagine the factory presets are any serious obstacle, because I see nothing saying that you can't overwrite them.
     
  9. ryan9896

    ryan9896 Rip it!!!!!!!!!!

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    dude, if i could hug you, i would!!! thank you so much, i think i clearly understand what i need to do, and i know that the V2 can easily save a setting by pressing the prgm/store button, so what you are saying makes perfect sense from what i have read in the manual, i guess i was just thinking about it too hard, thinking it wasn't as easy as that. one last question, i promise:

    all i would need, as far as midi cables, would be 1 (5-prong) cable going from the GSP "thru/send" to the V2 "in"??

    or would i need a 2nd cable going from the V2 "thru" to the GSP "in" as well?? i'm thinking i only need 1.....
     
  10. yingmin

    yingmin Parker über alles

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    Nope, a MIDI cable from the V2 send to the GSP in would only be necessary if you wanted the V2 to control the GSP as well, which would be completely unnecessary. All you'd need is one cable from the GSP thru to the V2 in.
     
  11. ryan9896

    ryan9896 Rip it!!!!!!!!!!

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    you da man!!! thank you again for your input and time on this, i WAS a MIDI newbie:)
     
  12. yingmin

    yingmin Parker über alles

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    I know how rough the leap into MIDI can be. I made the jump all by myself, so I like to help people out to smooth out the transition, because it really can open a lot of doors and make things a lot easier for you.
     
  13. el_thwatez

    el_thwatez SS.org Regular

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    If you can I'd recommend controlling the V2 using the control changes you've mentioned above. My T2 (and many others from the XL series I have read about) midi memory is prone to breaking down after a while so to ensure this doesn't effect you, make all your T2 changes via control changes, not programme changes.
     
  14. ryan9896

    ryan9896 Rip it!!!!!!!!!!

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    so would i manually enter the CC's into the GSP presets?? or are they already stored within the unit??

    cuz this is what i see in the manual concerning CC's:


    CC/Controller Map
    [FONT=GillSans,GillSans][FONT=GillSans,GillSans]The GSP1101 uses a Global Controller map for routing incoming MIDI CC and Expression Pedal messages to Expression Links within in a preset. There are 16 Global Controllers, each of which can be assigned to a different MIDI CC or the Expression Pedal. Once these Global Controllers are set up, you can then link up to eight Controllers to individual parameters in presets for customized functionality. From the factory, the Global Controllers have been assigned to some MIDI CCs already, but feel free to make changes to these assignments for your own needs.
    [/FONT]
    [/FONT][FONT=GillSans,GillSans][FONT=GillSans,GillSans]To set up the Global Controller mapping
    [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=GillSans,GillSans][FONT=GillSans,GillSans]From the Preset screen, press the [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=GillSans,GillSans][FONT=GillSans,GillSans]Edit/Select [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=GillSans,GillSans][FONT=GillSans,GillSans]knob.
    Turn the
    [/FONT]
    [/FONT][FONT=GillSans,GillSans][FONT=GillSans,GillSans]Edit/Select [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=GillSans,GillSans][FONT=GillSans,GillSans]knob until the MIDI menu is selected and press the knob.
    Turn the
    [/FONT]
    [/FONT][FONT=GillSans,GillSans][FONT=GillSans,GillSans]Edit/Select [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=GillSans,GillSans][FONT=GillSans,GillSans]knob until CC/Controller Map is selected and press the [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=GillSans,GillSans][FONT=GillSans,GillSans]Edit/Select [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=GillSans,GillSans][FONT=GillSans,GillSans]knob. This enters the MIDI CC/Controller mapping menu.
    Turn the
    [/FONT]
    [/FONT][FONT=GillSans,GillSans][FONT=GillSans,GillSans]Edit/Select [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=GillSans,GillSans][FONT=GillSans,GillSans]knob to select one of the 16 Global Controllers you want to map a MIDI CC to and press the [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=GillSans,GillSans][FONT=GillSans,GillSans]Edit/Select [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=GillSans,GillSans][FONT=GillSans,GillSans]knob.
    Turn the
    [/FONT]
    [/FONT][FONT=GillSans,GillSans][FONT=GillSans,GillSans]Edit/Select [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=GillSans,GillSans][FONT=GillSans,GillSans]knob to select the MIDI CC number you want this controller to respond to (0-127).
    Press the
    [/FONT]
    [/FONT][FONT=GillSans,GillSans][FONT=GillSans,GillSans]Back [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=GillSans,GillSans][FONT=GillSans,GillSans]button to return to the previous menu and repeat steps 3 and 4 for other global controllers.
    Press and hold the
    [/FONT]
    [/FONT][FONT=GillSans,GillSans][FONT=GillSans,GillSans]Back [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=GillSans,GillSans][FONT=GillSans,GillSans]button to return to the Preset screen. [/FONT][/FONT]
    [FONT=GillSans,GillSans][FONT=GillSans,GillSans][/FONT][/FONT]
    [FONT=GillSans,GillSans][FONT=GillSans,GillSans][/FONT][/FONT]
    [FONT=GillSans,GillSans][FONT=GillSans,GillSans]so what is a global controller?? i don't see any other mention of CC's in the GSP manual.....
    [/FONT]
    [/FONT]
     
  15. yingmin

    yingmin Parker über alles

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    Man, after taking a closer look at that part of the manual, it's actually starting to look like PCs are the only way to do it. The global controllers appear to be set up to manage INCOMING commands, not send commands out to other pieces of equipment. If I had one of these handy, I could get you a definite answer, but from what the manual's saying, it looks like using CCs to control the V2 is out.
     
  16. Wookieslayer

    Wookieslayer OOOAAARWWWRR

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    I've been wondering the same thing for my T2 but with a Pod X3 live... dunno if it's possible to use the X3 to switch the T2 channels, but I've been at least looking into MIDI controllers like the Behringer FCB 1010, Rocktron, and Tech21 Midi Moose...

    Thanks for this thread.
     
  17. ryan9896

    ryan9896 Rip it!!!!!!!!!!

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    this may change things:

    my GSP unit is updated with the newest beta version c63 and there are a couple of updates in the midi options, read this and let me know if i can now send CC's.....these are the only mentions of midi changes in the update information for my c63 version.


    CC INTERNAL ROUTING
    The 1101 now has the option of sending a CC assigned to any of the Control 2 or FC300
    footswitches internally as if it received that command from a midi controllers. Setting this
    route internally will remove the default function of that particular switch.
    For example you want to assign the Control 2 Toe Switch to turn on an EQ. You would
    go to the foot control menu select CC Send. Assign the Toe to send Control#6. Then
    under the CC send menu, go to the CC internal routing menu and set the Toe to yes
    (routes the command internally). By selecting yes you will also disable the wah switch
    so only the parameters set to receive Midi CC 6 will respond. Next simply assign
    controller number 6 to the EQ on/off in the expression links of your preset. Now when
    you toggle the toe switch, the EQ will turn on and off. At the same time, the 1101 would
    send midi CC6 out of the midi thru jack on the 1101 to your other equipment

    FS300 UPDATE
    CC send menu has new functionality that allows you to use the FS300 to send midi as
    well as the other top row of buttons on the Control 2 and the Control 2 toe switch. This
    assignment is located under the Edit/Foot Controller/Midi CC Send menu
    .
    Control 2 Toe Switch=FC TOE
    FS300 Left button=EXT LEFT
    FS300 Middle button=EXT MID

    FS300 Right button=EXT RIGHT

    CONTROLLER UPDATES
    An option has been added to send the midi CC send menu for the Control 2 stomp box
    buttons and toe switch so they can be reassigned to work like a midi controller. This

    assignment is located under the Edit/Foot Controller/Midi CC Send menu.

    MIDI OUTPUT MAPPING
    The 1101 now has midi output mapping. This is located under the midi/controllers menu.
    This allows control 2 users to send different midi program change numbers than it
    receives which can be useful if you are using other midi equipment with limited or no

    midi mapping.


     
  18. yingmin

    yingmin Parker über alles

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    It's a little convoluted, but the most important thing is that it definitely has at least SOME ability to send CCs to external equipment. Not sure if you'd need to fight against some of the internal stuff, but it should be workable.
     
  19. ryan9896

    ryan9896 Rip it!!!!!!!!!!

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    So here it is.....I looked in the control 2 manual and it explains how to assign MIDI CC's or PC's to be sent from any of the 10 buttons, for any presets in any bank. So preset #44 (in 5 patch mode) would be in bank 8, button 4, and I just assign the CC values to that button in that bank, and it will send the CC out of the midi "thru" to my V2 to change channels/settings. I can't believe I didn't think to look in the Control 2 manual to see what it said. You also have to update your GSP to at least beta version c48 for it to work, which is why the original manual for the GSP doesn't explain how to do it, cuz it couldn't do it. But they rectified the problem with the mustbebeta updates.
     

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