Paris shooting/explosion

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Luke Scicluna, Nov 13, 2015.

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  1. AngstRiddenDreams

    AngstRiddenDreams Filthy Casual

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    ^ My cousin is constantly posting Anti-Muslim meme's on FB and supports the planned parenthood shooter. I summarized your post to him to demonstrate his hypocrisy. Refused to acknowledge it. Then bashed me for being a communist because I support Bernie Sanders. lol @ bigots.
     
  2. sevenstringj

    sevenstringj Banned

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    Tell that to the Islamic State. Or watch "Until There Came To Them Clear Evidence," the Islamic State's own documentary full of references to scripture.

    Come to think of it, you know what moderate Muslims could do? Make a documentary thoroughly debunking that one, explaining exactly how the Islamic State is distorting Islam. And not just by quoting different verses, but by addressing the verses quoted.

    [​IMG]
     
  3. narad

    narad SS.org Regular

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    I think "Its obviously not fair to say that either of these attacks are actually reflective of the majority of the practitioners of these religions." is more in line with reality. All written doctrine is subject to interpretation. It doesn't mean that ISIS is any less out of step with the predominant interpretation of that scripture, which is the point.
     
  4. sevenstringj

    sevenstringj Banned

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    Paraphrase the same irrelevant "point" all you want. If the Islamic State is "out of step" with Islam, let's have a verse-by-verse refutation (again, not just quoting different verses, but dealing with the verses that the Islamic State cites) by self-proclaimed "normal" Muslims like these:



    Oh wait... :lol:
     
  5. Explorer

    Explorer He seldomly knows...

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    Here's my strong idea: I support the rule of law, and hate those who would use terroristic violence to subvert the Constitution and the United States.

    If someone is against the Constitution, they are anti-American. That's it. You can't argue that you are patriotic while reviling what the country's values are built upon.

    Your cousin is justifying his own form of religious jihad, and giving aid and comfort to terrorists while supporting attacks on our Constitutional liberties. His actions show him to be an enemy of America.

    The thing is, you don't necessarily have to convince your cousin. You just have to call him out, so that others see what your cousin is doing. Calling that kind of behavior out makes it easier for others to reject it as well, and to realize that terrorism sympathies are not good for the country. As a bonus, it undermines the stance which allows so many terrorism sympathizers to use false patriotism as a form of camouflage for their hate-filled beliefs.
     
  6. narad

    narad SS.org Regular

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    You don't get it: having a verse-by-verse refutation doesn't prove anything, only that two groups of people can read the same thing and get two conflicting view points out of it, which the two of us have already proven...
     
  7. sevenstringj

    sevenstringj Banned

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    Don't flatter yourself. :lol: You haven't proven anything other than your relentless aversion to reality. Did it ever occur to you that if 1 of those 2 groups of people can read the same text and overtly and admittedly alienate themselves from secular society and justify--and even join--the Islamic State that maybe, just maybe, the text itself is problematic? Not too many ways you can "interpret" beheading, or a woman's testimony being only half as good as a man's, or sex slavery, or the infidel tax, or the friendly burn in hellfire ultimatums. If the Quran were nothing but lovey dovey proclamations of peace, love, liberty, unity and equality, then it'd be easy to see how the Islamic State were distorting/abusing/misrepresenting/etc the faith.

    If Jews rebuilt the temple and started sacrificing animals and executing people for working on Saturday, would you throw on your cape and reassure us that it's just a matter of perspective? Where are you in all of Explorer's Christianity-bashing threads? :lol:
     
  8. Explorer

    Explorer He seldomly knows...

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    I don't think that noting facts should be considered "bashing."

    The 9/11 attacks were undertaken by members of an organization centered on establishing a muslim Islamic state.

    The Colorado killings followed from rhetoric in the US christian-based "pro-life" movement.

    Violent religionist terrorists are enemies of the US Constitution.

    Are facts considered "bashing"?
     
  9. flint757

    flint757 SS.org Regular

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    I think the better question for you is what exactly are you proposing then? Islam being a problem doesn't automatically make it an easy problem to fix and someone following Islam isn't automatically a womanizer, terrorist, abuser, etc. anymore than any other faith. Pretty much all faiths justify some serious violence in their holy books and the majority of misguided religious people manage to not attack people, including Muslims. Hell, we just had a domestic terrorist attack at a Planned Parenthood recently and it was a Christian, not a Muslim, who did it using the bible to justify his bigotry.

    We aren't going to be getting rid of any religion anytime soon as the belief is irrational to begin with. You can't rationalize with someone who's beliefs are largely irrational.

    Other than yelling Islam is the cause and Muslims are guilty I'm not really sure what you're trying to get at...
     
  10. vilk

    vilk Very Regular

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    I think because of the mass emigration from the middle east resulting Arabic/Muslim children growing up in a culturally diverse atmosphere with elevated levels of living, along with ISIS practically destroying any positive image of Islamic fundamentalism, we are going to see a steep, oh so beautifully steep drop in religious Muslims living in the West. As non-religious Arabic populations increase, we're going to see more and more Arabic children grow up understanding that they don't have to be Muslim. Islam in the West will go the way of Christianity: reserved for science-deniers, people brainwashed since birth, and recovering substance addicts; or it will be turned into a new-age non-religion imitation crab meat where it's mostly just "lets have a fundraiser" and "lets play guitar at church" and "let's hang out with gay people maybe we can change them"
     
  11. narad

    narad SS.org Regular

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    So it's the other 1.5 billion muslims that are mis-interpreting? We're 1500 years removed from the creation of the religion's sacred text -- you can argue ISIS's interpretation is more correct given their adherence to the aspects of the Quran that were most relevant to the life and thinking of the people alive at that time. You can also argue that the vast majority of muslims are more correct given their effort to apply Islamic tenets to the modern society they actually find themselves in.

    You want to know what defines a muslim today?? You're going with the former so you can make more silly points, I'll go with the latter since it's backed by essentially the entire muslim population.
     
  12. sevenstringj

    sevenstringj Banned

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    First of all, I don't think sex slavery is warranted at ANY time, past, present or future. But hey, that's just me. :rolleyes: If it was "relevant" 1500 yrs ago, the Quran could've simply said "thou shalt not take sex slaves" or "he who takes for himself sex slaves will face the grievous chastisement of the fire" or something like that. Instead it's stuff like "The believers must eventually win through; those who humble themselves in their prayers, who avoid vain talk, who are active in deeds of charity, and who abstain from sex except with those joined to them in marriage or the captives whom their right hands possess."

    Second, since I've read the Quran--and I'm betting you haven't--I can honestly say that I'm with the moderate Muslims on how they interpret it.

    But having read the Quran, I can also understand how ISIS derive their legitimacy from it.

    I'm also guessing you didn't watch those NYT vids on ISIS recruits and the Muslims they grew up with, or Islam Net's vid on what self-proclaimed "normal" Muslims believe. So your "1.5 billion muslims/essentially the entire muslim population" is a bit naive.

    Quick note: authorities haven't yet revealed Robert Dear's motive, and there's no indication yet that he used the bible to justify his shooting spree. I read the New Testament as well and I'd be fascinated to hear which verse(s) he quoted. Anyway...

    I never said "Muslims are guilty." I'm pointing out that the "revealed" text itself justifies the Islamic State. The problem is that both moderates and fundamentalists agree that the Quran is the absolute, perfect, ultimate, final, UNCHANGEABLE word of the invisible bookkeeper in the sky. So unfortunately you're right. This shit won't disappear anytime soon. But at least let's not delude ourselves into thinking it's just "some destitute, crazy people" because 1) it's empirically false, and 2) it perpetuates the root of the problem.
     
  13. narad

    narad SS.org Regular

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    Well I'm very much in favor of sex slavery, as you might have figured out from my many mentions of it in my posts :nuts:
     
  14. sevenstringj

    sevenstringj Banned

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    :lol: Paranoid much? I clearly wasn't talking about you, as indicated by the rest of my post which you hacked off in your thoughtless retort.

    [​IMG]
     
  15. flint757

    flint757 SS.org Regular

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    Could you be more sarcastic in literally every post you make. Argue like an adult, m'kay?
     
  16. sevenstringj

    sevenstringj Banned

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  17. asher

    asher So Did We

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    Well, the condescending .gifs have mostly stopped, so: yes, he could.
     
  18. sevenstringj

    sevenstringj Banned

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    asher math: 1 gif = a continuous stream of gifs

    To quote your homie, "Argue like an adult, m'kay?" :yesway:
     
  19. FILTHnFEAR

    FILTHnFEAR Infidel

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    Oh...really? :lol: Want to show me anywhere that it says being a Christian was an SS requirement?

    “We will have to deal with Christianity in a tougher way than hitherto. We must settle accounts with this Christianity, this greatest of plagues that could have happened to us in our history, which has weakened us in every conflict.” -Heinrich Himmler Reichsfuhrer SS

    GHDI - Document

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinrich_Himmler#Anti-church_struggle


    Not saying he isn't some Christian nutjob justifying murder in opposition to abortion, but from what I've read they haven't given motive yet. I haven't paid too much attention to it today, though.
     
  20. narad

    narad SS.org Regular

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    I got confused when you quoted my post and then immediately started off with "First of all...", especially given that no one else was talking about that either. Anyway, did you have some kind of point? Just wanted to set the record straight on where you stand on the very polarizing topic of sex slavery? You wanted to use the forum to create some kind of unconventional record of which/how many books you've read? Because as far as points, yea, this:

    This isn't something the people you are currently talking to are disagreeing with. And when asked repeatedly to be more on point, you've only deviated more from it with silly image posts and pedantic clarifications. It just seems like you're arguing with yourself, and being condescending and mean to everyone else.
     
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