Offical Axe-Fx Q&A thread!

Discussion in 'Gear & Equipment' started by JohnIce, Apr 16, 2010.

  1. vick1000

    vick1000 SS.org Regular

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  2. mnemonic

    mnemonic Custom User Title

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    Damn, I did my yearly update yesterday :(
     
  3. victim5150

    victim5150 SS.org Regular

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    Some video of the AX8 in action. My Ozzy tribute Ozz performing Ozzy and Lita Ford's Close My Eyes Forever with our friend Steffany Johnson on vocals.
    I'm using one of Freeman's ambient acoustic presets at the beginning. AX8 is direct to FOH.
     
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  4. mnemonic

    mnemonic Custom User Title

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    Someone mentioned (possibly on the axe fx forum rather than here) that at some point in the last couple updates, the rectos got flubby and not good for metal. I gave them a shot yesterday, and my previously-tight patches dont sound great, and starting from a blank patch, I can't really get it that tight and clear. Definite fuzzy, flubby characteristic I can't get rid of. Hopefully that gets fixed soon.

    I am, however, super happy with the Fryette D60 model, it got way tighter, dryer, and clearer since Q3 which I was last on. A lot less gain though which is odd. Overall big improvement.

    I may try rolling back to fw18 or something this weekend if I'm bored, just to compare. I remember fw18 (or thereabouts) the rectos went from good to great for metal. The guitars and speakers I were using back then we're very different though (I was doing FRFR at the time) so it will be interesting to see what differences there are.
     
  5. vick1000

    vick1000 SS.org Regular

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    Well Rectos are pretty flubby/boomy without a mid boost and hi/lo cut in front.
     
  6. SevenSkull

    SevenSkull SS.org Regular

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    With Rectos I always reduce the low resonance at first (from 5 to about 2.5-3). Then I start tweaking as usual.
     
  7. vividox

    vividox SS.org Regular

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    I just don't ever use rectos. :p

    Sorry for the shitpost, I'll see my way out.
     
  8. Shask

    Shask SS.org Regular

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    Ya know, I noticed my patches didnt sound as good as they did 6 months ago or so. It has been frustrating to me, but I cant really tell you why. It is like the sound is boomy in the low end, yet has more of that dry thud in the mids. Weird. I dont really like ultra-tight sounds.... I go for more of a chunky chug type sound, think Master of Puppets, or Nevermore. I have been having an issue getting it to have more of a natural chug lately without sounding mushy or muddy. I do use the Recto 1 modern a lot, but have been using the 5153 more. I use the HBE sometimes also, but I definitely notice it having that super tight thuddy type of tone. All I want is some nice chuggy bass! lol!

    I typically use a poweramp and cab, but considering a FRFR like the Friedman ASM-12 because it is reported as having more of a "cab in the room" type sound and feel while being a FRFR cab. I typically like a poweramp/cab better, but have been wanting to try to give FRFR a real chance. I have 8" monitors, but usually the sound bugs me. I hate that bassless thump, fuzzy mids, flat, smooth type of tone you usually get using cab IRs and monitors. However, not using the cab IRs, I feel like I am missing out on a big part of what the Axe can do, and I also feel like that puts me in tweaking hell. Using a poweramp/cab definitely seems to take more work to get a good sound.

    Sadly, I have been liking my $300 Boss Katana better lately. Whatever they did in that amp just works, because it has amazing low end punch for what it is. It has a DSP in the poweramp interacting with the speaker, or something like that.

    Yes, somewhat. I have a real Triple Rectifer, and while it can sound kind of sluggish without a boost, it still sounds huge. I wish I could get the same kind of low end punch out of the Axe-FX the real amp has. More bass in the Axe-FX tends to mush out, and get that weird bottomed-out sound though instead of projecting out of the cab.

    You know, all amps I notice the bass getting that bottomed-out boomy sound in the low end lately. I used to increase the low resonance to try to get more low end punch, but lately I find myself lowering this parameter to 2-3 also, and then using an EQ to low pass the entire low end up to about 200hz to actually get more bass. It seems more balanced without the boom in the recent firmwares.

    I am also finding that using the lo/hi cut trick that is used with FRFR is working well with the cab also. Use an EQ to dial out below 70hz or so, and above 13,000hz or so. That seems to control the boom and fizz somewhat, even with a real guitar cab.
     
  9. LeviathanKiller

    LeviathanKiller Knee-shooting Archer

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    I use 80 HP and 10k LP on all of my patches in the cab section parameters usually

    Once I found what worked for me, it was pretty easy to duplicate it across my other patches
     
  10. vick1000

    vick1000 SS.org Regular

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    If you are using a real guitar speaker, turn down the high and low speaker resonance in the speaker tab of the amp block. You may need to adjust your EQ afterward, but it is the proper base point for a rig with no FRFR speakers.

    If a Recto is not sounding boomy or fat enough, it may be what you are using to amplify it. The boom and thickness of a Recto come s from the power section design. If you are not going direct to recording, chances are the monitors and power amp, are not going to get you that boominess.

    I use a Mesa Stereo 2:50 and Fryette FB 412, and I can get Dual Recto fatness without issue, but still can't get a full on Tri-rec tone. You can check the negative feedback if you are using power amp sims, and make sure it is set near 1.00. That's where a lot of the recto tone comes from.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2017
  11. mnemonic

    mnemonic Custom User Title

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    I'm using a solidstate poweramp and guitar cab also (2x12, V30 / K100 combo). I know what you mean on the boomyness or fuzzyness, it seems the rectos have got a lot boomier. I was previously on Quantum 3 until i updated to 8, and even in 3, the Modern Mode rectos were super boomy, I had to turn down the low res, or just use the vintage mode with Negative Feedback at 0.01 to approximate the Modern mode but in a less boomy way.

    I had some spare time after work today, so I loaded up FW18, which wiped all my presets so I couldn't load my Q8 presets, had to start from scratch (I did back it up before the downgrade though so nothing really lost). The Modern Mode Recto was stupid easy to dial in, took about 4 minutes to get a chunky nevermore-ish recto tone. I do feel it lacked some 'depth' that is apparent in Q8, but that may have been placebo effect.

    The Fryette D60 model was noticeably worse in FW18 than it is in Q8. It had way less depth, way less touch-sensitivity, and was way less dynamic. That 'crazy dynamics' thing people talk about with Fryette gear, how you can go from clean to high gain with the volume knob and picking dynamics, I can do in Q8 (though I haven't played the real thing yet so I'm still not sure how close it is in that regard). Definitely can't do that in FW18. The recto and D60 were similar in dynamic range, I think. The FW18 D60 also lacked a lot of the depth that the Q8 D60 has.

    I played on the firmware for about an hour or so, took a break, played some more, then upgraded back to Q8. The D60 is orders of magnitude better in Q8, and the Rectos do have a deeper feel, but like you say, kind of 'bottomed out' on the low end. Kinda boomy, not really that clear. More fuzzy, less chunky, and I don't really care to spend hours tweaking it at the moment, when I'm getting the chunk I want from the D60 anyway.

    One other thing, I thought the boost pedals might have changed lately, as I haven't been liking the T808 or T808 Mod for a while, I much prefer a real tubescreamer. Well, on FW18 they more-or-less sounded the same as Q8 (as far as I could tell, given the amp models were quite a bit different). I dunno, they just kind of have some low-end octave-like filtering that I just can't dial out. It reminds me of that atonal 'HRRRR' noise you get from a wah, but its in the low end, rather than mids/highs.

    The FAS Boost sounds way better imo, much easier to dial in, and more like my real-life modded tubescreamer than the ts models in the box.

    Sorry for the rambling, I had a lot of spare time this evening.

    My understanding is that you would only turn those to zero or close to zero (or just turn off poweramp modeling) if you were using a tube poweramp in conjunction with a guitar cab. After all, with a solidstate poweramp and guitar cab, the solid state poweramp won't interact with the cab and cause those impedence curves the way a tube poweramp would.
     
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  12. LeviathanKiller

    LeviathanKiller Knee-shooting Archer

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    I will definitely have to try that FAS Boost. I've been messing with the Micro Boost for some less harsh boosted sounds.
     
  13. Shask

    Shask SS.org Regular

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    I typically use a GT1000FX, so not a cheap poweramp. Sometimes I will use the power section of my Triple Recto, but then everything sounds and feels like a Recto, and that is no fun. I usually use a Gflex 212 cab.

    Yeah, I think right around the time Quantum came about is when the heavy sounds got harder to tweak.

    I had a real D120 for awhile, and the D60 model has always been OK, but I dont know if it compares without the massive low end the D120 had. Kind of the same issue as the Triple Recto. I will have to play with it some more. I have played with it off and on, but have never been a model I stick with.

    I agree that everything does seem to have more depth in the newest firmwares. I have noticed it has a more 3D type feel around the notes when compared with my other digital gear, so it has improved in some ways. Hopefully he refines the low end soon. I also find I need to cut a lot at 500hz on many tones to help the low end stand out, and not sound boxy. I also find turning down the master helps control the boominess, but then sometimes there isn't much feel (watching the meter when the sag control is highlighted), so I am always playing with that balance. I also find myself turning up the preamp comp because it is almost too dynamic for me, lol. I dont like the feel when I have to slam the strings to get any saturation.

    It is funny you mention the boost pedals, because I was playing with this the other day. I have been using 808Mod much more lately, but still like my actual OD808 in front of the Axe better. I have also played with Eternal, which is some sort of TS variant with more aggressive upper mids. I was kind of noticing the 808's had this weird sort of synth type sound in the lower mids, which makes mid-fretboard notes almost sound more like a synthesizer than a guitar. Kind of like a wah, like you said, so maybe you are hearing the same thing. I switched to the BB preamp the other day on a main 5153 preset. It had a nice aggression without the synthetic thing going on. I will have to play with the FAS boost. I have used it in the past as a clean boost, but didn't like it as much for the tightening effect like a TS does. Maybe dialing back some bass and treble would get it in the TS neighborhood.
     
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  14. Casper777

    Casper777 Slow Player

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  15. LeviathanKiller

    LeviathanKiller Knee-shooting Archer

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    Would anyone be interested in contributing ~10 second DIs of their pickups for the purpose of allowing other users to tone-match their pickups to those DIs, thus giving a fairly close way to "clone" pickups.
    I can post full details on the process in the thread I make but I need to see if there's enough interest first before I bother.
    Here's the original thread that started the idea.
    https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/pickup-tone-match.77058

    Here's what I have so far if you want to test run some to see if you're interested
    https://www.mediafire.com/folder/20jzr4k6xijc4/Guitar_DI_Vault

    Let me know if you guys are interested!
     
  16. vividox

    vividox SS.org Regular

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    You guys have way, way, way better ears than I do. I feel like I'm throwing darts when I start turning knobs.
     
  17. mnemonic

    mnemonic Custom User Title

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    Agreed, I hope there are some future updates that address the low end.

    I generally don't mess around too much with external EQ's, I just use a PEQ as a high/low pass, but generally don't address individual frequencies. I will give 500 a shot through, just to see if that improves things. Who knows, maybe thats my problem and I've just been listening to it for so long that I can't tell at this point.

    Low master is definitely important. I generally have it around 2 for most high gain stuff, depending on the model. Some like it lower to keep the bottom end in-tact, and some like it higher as they can sound too sterile without a bit of poweramp compression. I know cliff said at one point that the Master control does not follow the same taper as the real life models (not sure if this is still the case, I last saw it said it a very long time ago), but watching videos on youtube with people cranking the masters up quite high on some amps, yet retaining bottom end clarity has me thinking that maybe the poweramp distortion in many models could use some work. Most of the time, getting the master up too high results in a loose, sloppy low end. The most recent time I've seen this was some Orange Rockerverb demos on youtube, there were some where they had the master up around half way, and the preamp gain quite high, and it still sounded clear. But with the axe fx set up similarly, the low end was way out of control distorted from the master being so high.

    I'm glad someone agrees with me on the low end from the 808. I first noticed it like two years ago when I used the recto model with the Cut switch disengaged. With Cut on, I didn't really notice it much at all. However as time went on, the Rectos got to the point where I didn't need to engage the Cut to have a tight, clear low end, and thats about when I switched to using the FAS Boost or an external overdrive.

    this was me for the first few years I played electric guitar. People would talk about all sorts of nuanced things and I just didn't really notice or get them. Again, it took a while to get a feel for this stuff even when I got my Axe FX.

    Most firmwares tend to have pretty subtle differences between them, if any at all. I know I have seen a few instances of a new firmware being uploaded to the axe fx forum, people remarking how much better X sounds, then cliff chimes in to say that there were no modeling changes, it was just a bug fix or something. The placebo effect can be pretty strong.

    The difference between FW18 and Quantum 8 is like two years of accumulated updates though, and all those little changes add up.
     
  18. Shask

    Shask SS.org Regular

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    It definitely helps to have years of experience with gear before having the Axe-FX. I would be completely lost if I didn't understand a signal chain before having some of the digital units of today. If you have plugged in chains of pedals, with wires, power supplies, etc... you kind of understand better what each component does to the tone and feel. It takes time to understand what each piece does. Once you understand each piece, you learn to know what to listen for, and how to change it.
     
  19. vividox

    vividox SS.org Regular

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    Thanks for the responses.

    I've been playing for 17 years now, but almost all of that time has been focused on playing/technique; I was never really one to sit down and tweak knobs. Before the Axe-FX I only had one tube amp - an ENGL Fireball 100W. I mostly dialed in a pretty standard setting with minimal tweaking; again, it was all about playing it. It wasn't until I had that thing for years that I started to actually shape the tone - I got an outboard EQ, a Keeley 4-Knob Compressor, a Tubescreamer, a Torpedo Reload, then went to town trying to sculpt it. After about a year it looked like that road was turning into a GAS black hole, so I sold it all and got the Axe-FX instead. I've had that for about a year now, but mostly rely on presets. I have a feeling the solution is as easy as getting myself to tweak and train my ear, it's just never a priority for me.
     
  20. mnemonic

    mnemonic Custom User Title

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    I just did the math and I think I've been playing for about 13 years now. Time really flies!
     

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