Nurse arrested for refusing to take blood

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by bostjan, Sep 1, 2017.

  1. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    This, basically - if I can be arrested for breaking a law I'm unaware of, then a cop should be held accountable for breaking a law he was unaware of, as well.

    I don't have a source handy, but I recall reading over the weekend the cop was first reassigned from active duty, and then a day or so later, fired. Of course, I understand it's very common for police departments to hire officers from elsewhere without checking their records, so it's likely he'll just join a different force in the state who will either be unaware of this or will be aware but don't care, but still...
     
  2. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    He was also a part time paramedic, and was dismissed from that job recently (yesterday, maybe). But that just raises more suspicion for me - if he was a paramedic and a police officer routinely involved in drawing blood, then how did he not know the law?! Obviously, he knew the law, but just didn't care - resorting to the age-old tactic of intimidation.

    Also, fuck Fox News. They are trying to run this story: http://www.foxnews.com/health/2017/...y-bag-to-view-deceased-patients-genitals.html, which goes back to April/May and is almost completely inconsequential in the grand scheme of things, to try to defend police brutality by undermining nurses in general. This makes me so mad. :mad: If that story was so upsetting, why did Fox wait 4-5 months before running it nationally?

    I have a lot of respect for anyone brave enough to deal with the sort of things the police have to deal with, but there is no excuse whatsoever for police brutality like roughing up nurses to try to intimidate them into breaking the law, or shooting reporters, or lying in court to try to get off from serious charges. These sorts of things have run rampant now for far too long, and internal affairs isn't doing shit to stop it.
     
  3. Rosal76

    Rosal76 SS.org Regular

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    It seems that detective Jeff Payne will be in a lot more, if not already, trouble. According to his records, he has been disciplined for sexual harassment against a female co-worker back in 2013 and had violated other police laws in 1995. At first, I thought he was just having a bad day during the hospital incident but apparently, that's how he really acts. I'm not a psychologist and can't read people the way they do but it seems that officer Payne likes to be a alpha male and does not know how to act properly around woman.

    http://www.sltrib.com/news/2017/09/...harassment-and-other-violations-records-show/
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2017
  4. KnightBrolaire

    KnightBrolaire tinkerer/aspiring builder/8 string hoarder

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  5. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    I have mixed feelings about that, after reflecting a bit. Whilst Payne's actions were totally over-the-top, he was actually directed to arrest the nurse by his supervisor. I wonder what level of accountability the supervisor took. I'm afraid the supervisor might have thrown Payne under the proverbial bus and got him fired to save face. On the other hand, it does seem reasonably clear that Payne was generally hot-headed and not suited to be in a position determining the outcome of life-and-death situations on a routine basis, regardless of which instructions he was given.

    I guess this is a step in the right direction, but there are some other facets of this incident that I think might be easily swept under the rug at this point, although those issues may have more widespread implications than what one man employed where the rubber meets the road can affect.
     
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  6. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    "Only following orders" isn't a defense - he chose to follow them, so he owns his actions. I have no mixed feelings about that. If there's room for mixed feelings anywhere it's wanting to know how that supervisor was punished.
     
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  7. cwhitey2

    cwhitey2 BlackendCrust Metalâ„¢

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  8. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    That's more or less what I was saying. From a problem-solving standpoint, I think firing Payne fails to addresse the root of the problem. Whether or not he deserved to be fired is beyond argument, of course. It's like if you fell off of a ladder and woke up with a headache, so you took a couple pills of ibuprofen, but failed to realize that you had a fractured skull. It's not a bad step to take, but it's silly to stop there and call it good, you know?
     
  9. Rosal76

    Rosal76 SS.org Regular

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    According to one recent article:

    "Payne's supervisor, Lt. James Tracy, was demoted to officer. His lawyer, Ed Brass, couldn't immediately be reached".

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/detective-jeff-payne-fired-nurse-alex-wubbels-video/

    It's not over for detective Payne. According to the article, the FBI will be looking into this.
     
  10. Rosal76

    Rosal76 SS.org Regular

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    Humans, man. Humans mess up. Sometimes really, really bad. Not just police officers. Doctors, priests, educators, military personal, politicians, etc, etc, etc. IMHO, it's completely one thing to work at McDonalds and be a asshole to a customer but if you're in one of the professions I listed above, the whole world knows who you are and what you did when you screw up on the job.
     
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  11. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    I agree 100%.

    However, if you are documented to be an ass on multiple occasions, and worse, refuse to apologize when you get caught in the wrong, then you will get fired, whether you work at McD's or for PD or even as a big time movie producer at Mirimax. Payne seemed to fit that category. Mohammed Noor also fits that category, except maybe for an "oops, sorry" public statement. Lots of LEO's in the news recently have fit partially into that category as well.

    Also, if you are a surgeon or a police officer or whatever job means life-or-death for lots of people, then you just have to face higher levels of scrutiny.

    But yeah, if Payne wants to work as a radio talk show host, or professional fighter, or some other job where getting really pissed off could be an asset, good for him. As a cop, bad idea.
     
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  12. KnightBrolaire

    KnightBrolaire tinkerer/aspiring builder/8 string hoarder

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    Regardless of whether Payne is the root cause of the issue, he should have never escalated the situation to that level. If the head nurse and administrators/lawyers are telling you that you can't draw blood from an unconscious patient then that settles it. There was never any reason for him to react that way. I'm glad he got fired, that kind of behavior is unacceptable and horribly unprofessional.
     
  13. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    Thanks. A demotion is hardly a slap on the wrist, but it's a good first step.
     
  14. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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  15. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    Oh, I'm not saying it wasn't, not even close - rather, if anything I think he got off too light. They BOTH come out of that looking badly.
     
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  16. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    Oh yeah, I know. Did you read the letter, though? Interesting stuff, as it has a considerable number of details left out of other news stories.

    Personally, I am relieved that this one came out as a win for justice. So many accounts the past, IDK, maybe 4 years, of police abuse of power that ended up with usually no, or sometimes very little repercussions for officers who should have been held accountable.
     
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