Nurse arrested for refusing to take blood

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by bostjan, Sep 1, 2017.

  1. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/sep/1/alex-wubbels-utah-nurse-forcibly-arrested-while-re/

    No warrant, nothing. The nurse obstructed the police from illegally assaulting this patient, so they assaulted and arrested her for obstruction of justice for following the law.

    Police officers: start policing your fellow officers. Seriously. When the police harm innocent people trying to do their job, they need to be held accountable. If I went into a hospital and demanded someone's blood, then assaulted a nurse and handcuffed her, I would be locked up for a long time. I think police should be held to at least the same standard. Lock this guy up.
     
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  2. Mathemagician

    Mathemagician SS.org Regular

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    She'll get off and if she sues will win. The cops just wanted to feel tough because they got knocked down a peg.

    No medical professional worth their salt is violating HIPPA (spelling?).

    Get a warrant and the doctor says "sure thing man here you go."

    They just wanted to play badass. Ugh. Making hard working cops look bad.
     
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  3. Rosal76

    Rosal76 SS.org Regular

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    What I noticed a lot about police officers, not all of course, is that if they don't understand something, in this case, what a nurse can do and can't do, they go into, "it's my way or you get arrested". I can completely understand that officers would not know every single law in their state but if I was a police officer and didn't fully understand the specific laws pertaining to something, I would just call my Captain for assistance and/or get the rule book out and find out.
     
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  4. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    From the news I read, the officer in question was reassigned from collecting blood samples to some other duty. Now, this isn't 100%, of course, but it leads me to believe that this officer was regularly involved in this activity, probably even routinely involved. If that's the case, then he was just flat out being belligerent. If not, then he should have called his boss and asked for clarification, which, from my understanding, he did, and was instructed to make the arrest.

    You know, the nurse in this case is a medical professional, appearing to be behaving professionally. It's not like he encountered a crack dealer who was uncooperative. If anyone would have deserved any benefit of the doubt, it would be the head nurse at the hospital or a doctor- so, even best case scenario, this cop was way in the wrong here.

    That said, there are two sides to every story, and we don't know really what led up to this...I just don't see how the cops are in the right from any perspective with the videos that are out there now, and the fact that none of the story adds up on the police end.
     
  5. Rosal76

    Rosal76 SS.org Regular

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    What I thought was weird is that it wasn't like the patient could leave because he was unconscious. If he (the patient) was dangerous and was wide awake, I would tell the other officers to watch him while I talk to my Captain for the next move. I mean, did the officer need the blood sample so fast that they couldn't wait for him to get up and/or until they got the warrant? But like you said, we don't know the whole story.
     
  6. Mathemagician

    Mathemagician SS.org Regular

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    They likely wanted the sample to "prove" the person was on something and get a conviction. Which is fine - with a warrant.
     
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  7. KnightBrolaire

    KnightBrolaire tinkerer/aspiring builder/8 string hoarder

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    this cop is getting fired. I don't know why the hell he thought it was a good idea to put his hands on someone who was doing their job/explained exactly why she couldn't draw blood from the patient. If getting a blood sample was that important he should've got a fucking warrant and done his job. As a nurse I find this especially disgusting since we work with LEOs/EMS a lot. There's no excuse for treating her that way.
     
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  8. lewis

    lewis SS.org Regular

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    when will things change in the USA?

    Its long long long overdue (it should never even been wrong to begin with) but how the Police operate over there is absolutely disgusting.
    Complete abuse of power. You have to seriously question how people are recruited too. Seems to me any old maniac/bully, can be allowed to become a police officer.
     
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  9. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    I read somewhere that the police stated they needed the blood samples to "protect him."

    Just a shot in the dark, but I think this cop was already worked up over something and just got confused. From the sound of it, there was no reason to suspect this guy anyway.

    @KnightBrolaire : Where did you hear he was being fired? I did hear that the Mayor and the police chief had both apologized, but, last I heard, Det. Payne was simply transferred to other responsibilities within the department.

    Nothing ever really comes of these cases, but hopefully this will be the exception. That detective needs lots of training. I'm not a big one-strike-your-out kind of guy, but this one is wrong in so many ways, that cop definitely needs a reprimand and to go back to the academy.

    Meanwhile, near your home town, it looks like the Justine Damond case is not going to grand jury, and the prosecutor will likely not be filing any charges. Additionally, officials have claimed that they will not give any more updates until 2018 on the investigation. That sends a loud and clear message that cops can shoot people for no reason and no one has to even answer any questions about it. I don't see how that it the least bit acceptable.
     
  10. KnightBrolaire

    KnightBrolaire tinkerer/aspiring builder/8 string hoarder

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    Oh I don't know if he's actually getting fired, I'm just hoping he does. Not only did she explain exactly why she couldn't draw blood, but her supervisor did too. The cop getting frustrated over that is no reason to handcuff a nurse, especially when all of it was recorded by his own body cam.
    Yeah I've heard nothing about Damond on the local news. I think they're trying to completely bury the case, and I'm generally not a tinfoil hat kind of dude.
     
  11. lewis

    lewis SS.org Regular

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    "Making a Nurse-Murderer" Season II = Netflix winter 2017
     
  12. Rosal76

    Rosal76 SS.org Regular

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    I just read a interesting article about this case and it turns out that the arresting officer and his Captain didn't know that the laws concerning drawing blood from a unconscious patient have been changed.

    "Porter said Payne argued that he was allowed to take the blood through a process known as "implied consent." But she said that law was changed years ago".

    I've said it before that I can understand that it would be too difficult for officers to know every updated law in their state but I don't think it gives them the right to be over aggressive to other people. I read the article below and the laws can be a very complicated thing. There is a ongoing investigation and I'm curious to know how it ends up.

    https://www.ksl.com/?sid=45629038&n...es-police-video-of-crazy-arrest-by-sl-officer
     
  13. KnightBrolaire

    KnightBrolaire tinkerer/aspiring builder/8 string hoarder

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    There is absolutely no excuse to act the way he did. She clearly and succinctly explained why she couldn't draw blood, she had her supervisors explain why as well and the dense fucker tried to bully her.
     
  14. cwhitey2

    cwhitey2 BlackendCrust Metal™

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    A couple things I noticed.

    1) she was only detained not arrested and was set free.

    2) she read him the policy/agreement between the police department and the hospital and he still choose to be a douch

    3) the truck driver was the victim in this case and he's trying to build a case on a guy on a coma

    4) even the hospital manager (or whoever she was in the phone with) says they can't legally take the sample cause he asked for it.

    5)i saw in an interview that she won't sue (essentially because she is the nicest human ever)


    Cases like this make me sick. I'm 100% pro police, but things like are beyond unacceptable. Idc if he had 70 years on the force... You are fired. No discussion.
     
  15. Rosal76

    Rosal76 SS.org Regular

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    The arresting officer (Payne) didn't know that the law had been changed/updated. He called his Captain and was told he was allowed to take the blood sample. The nurse who got arrested had known about the updated law. This isn't the first time I had come across a case where an officer (or in this case, the Captain) on the scene didn't know that a law had been changed/updated and had become aggressive. You're right, though. He shouldn't had acted like he did.

    According to the article I posted, it stated:

    "But because the patient was not a suspect in the crash nor faced potential criminal charges, because he was unconscious and unable to give consent, and because the officer did not have a warrant, Wubbels — one of the supervisors that night — did not allow him to draw blood".

    The nurses attorney, Karra Porter, states that they don't know why officer Payne wanted a blood sample from the patient and that's why they have a ongoing investigation. I thought maybe he (Payne) wanted a blood sample to see if he had any alcohol/illegal drugs in his system but they already stated in the article I posted that he (the victim) wasn't a suspect. I did hear something that anytime there is a fatal car accident, they take blood samples from both parties. The person who got hit and the person who did the hitting just to make sure who is at fault.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2017
  16. HeavyMetal4Ever

    HeavyMetal4Ever SS.org Regular

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    "Ignorance of the law is no excuse"...said by MANY law enforcement officials to people who were unaware they were even breaking a law. If ignorance of the law is no excuse for private citizens, then surely it's much, much worse when those that are supposed to uphold said laws are ignorant of them.

    If the Officer involved doesn't know the law, and their Captain also doesn't know the law, then how can they be said to be capable of performing their duties?
     
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  17. Elwood

    Elwood SS.org Regular

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    Wisdom awarded!
     
  18. vilk

    vilk Very Regular

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    This is just an hypothesis:

    In the past, when the image of police officers as portrayed by pop culture was heroic, people who are heroic would become cops.

    but since Nixon's War on Drugs and making various non-criminal activities illegal, the pop culture portrayal of cops is micro-penis napoleon syndrome kid who got swirly'd in high school wants to feel empowered and tough... hence kids with micro-penis napoleon syndrome who get swirly'd in high school decide that the best way to become empowered and tough is to enroll in police force.
     
  19. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    Interesting. I had seen multiple sources claim the nurse was "arrested," with one source (I thought it was Washington Post, but can't find it now) giving the reason as "Obstruction of Justice."

    Yup. I think you hit the nail on the head there.

    Now, evidently, some cops are so afraid of having their BS filmed that they've taken to shooting reporters and camera operators.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/new-carlisle-ohio-news-photographer-deputy-camera-weapon/

    "I thought your large television camera was a sniper rifle" seems like complete horseshit. This kind of excuse usually makes very little sense in high-tension situations, but in this case, there was no reason for anyone to be on edge.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...fter-appalling-arrest/?utm_term=.c267848cdd03

    And now, in this particular case, since the victim that the nurse was trying to protect turned out to be a police officer himself, and since the situation has been brought to the national spotlight by the news, Payne has been suspended and may now face charges after all. Funny how just a week ago, it seemed like this was all going to just go away. You can't tell me that this would have gone absolutely nowhere had it not been for the body camera footage.
     
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  20. cwhitey2

    cwhitey2 BlackendCrust Metal™

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    bostjan, the best part about the Ohio incident sit hat the 2 knew each other form the reports I have heard :lol:
     

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