New Tosin Abasi signature in the works - Abasi Guitars w/Frank Falbo

Discussion in 'Extended Range Guitars' started by HeHasTheJazzHands, Nov 7, 2015.

  1. n4t

    n4t SS.org Regular

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    I really didn't feel like this thread was complete until we had your tone-wood theory. I feel much better now. Whoever you are. I'm sure you must feel better as well, having provided us with vital information we couldn't finish the day without and is almost certainly the truth. Thank you.
     
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  2. DudeManBrother

    DudeManBrother Hey...how did everybody get in my room?

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    I knew it... I’m not going to write it out. But I knew it
    2BD57983-7690-4DCB-BF96-76DCA68D17ED.jpeg
    Carry on my wayward thread :/
     
  3. jephjacques

    jephjacques BUTTS LOL

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    lmao at Fred's fucked up left hand
     
  4. jemfloral

    jemfloral SS.org Regular

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    Pretty sure he's just practicing a C chord on his air guitar... :hbang:
     
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  5. ElRay

    ElRay Mostly Harmless

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    "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." :lol:

    Show me one double-blind study were listeners can identify the tone woods based on the sound coming out of a speaker, and I'll drop it.
     
  6. narad

    narad SS.org Regular

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    But he was referring to your theory, not his, and clearly using it in the colloquial sense. As in, the unimportance of wood on tone is something you've theorized.
     
  7. ElRay

    ElRay Mostly Harmless

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    Sorry. You've got it backwards. I don't have a theory. It's the tonewood mythers that are proposing a theory. The tonewood folks are the ones making the claim. They need to prove their hypothesis and they haven't. That's basic science.

    The anti-tonewood people just provide the FACT that there is a complete lack of any proof that tone wood produces any identifiable, predictable, repeatable effect. There's no need to prove the negative, the tonewood mythers haven't proved their claims.

    What did n4t provide to prove his point? Nothing, just a Trump-style attempt at an insult, a Trump-style denigration of science/logic ("your tone-wood theory") and a Trump-style hypocritical insinuation that tonewood mythers are allowed to use tonewood as a fact, but as soon as the rational thinking adults point out the flaws in the claims, we've committed a foul and shouldn't point out the nonsense involved.

    What has any tonewood myther provided other than straw man arguments (Different woods have different tones. See, we're correct.) and/or the occasional insult? They may not be insulting, they may actually be nice about it, and they may be very skilled players/builders, but that doesn't convert alternate-facts into reality.

    All it would take to prove the myth is to provide a straight forward double blind study that shows listeners can identify the tonewood by listening to the sound that comes out of the speakers. Considering this was tried with Stradivarius, modern violins, trained listeners and no speakers, and not only did the experts have equal false-positives and false-negatives, there wasn't even a single violin that was consistently identified either way, I have my doubts.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2018
  8. Jonathan20022

    Jonathan20022 Engineer

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    Who cares man? If other people want to believe Tonewoods affect the output of an instrument through an amp let them be, there are countless places and topics worth debating than this.

    If you noticed, Frank didn't reply to you after stating his opinion. And n4t was poking fun at guys like you who feel the need to throw their two cents into the tonewood argument in a place that otherwise doesn't call for it. Yes the burden of proof lies in the person making a claim, but it seems you really want to engage with someone in a full on discussion when no one really feels like doing the same with you.

    Just make a thread about it and debate it there, I'm sure willing participants will reveal themselves.
     
  9. frank falbo

    frank falbo SS.org Regular

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    I concur about a mass produced instrument building insurance into their construction methods, but no, personally in this case that's not my motivation, not at all. And certainly not for bullet points. It's too much work for just a marketing bullet point.

    Well, my inverted quartered method doesn't eliminate the need for adjustments either, but it's a very stable and time tested way to make a neck.

    I don't see it that way. The 2pc construction works on both sides of the tonewood debate. It's beneficial to the final product as an improvement in stability, including for those who believe there is no audible benefit to having a neck that "pings" a certain way, and it's beneficial to the player who does feel that these things cumulatively make a difference in the plugged in tone.

    These differences don't have to be detectable to the listener at the end of the signal chain. They only have to alter the way the artist feels while they are playing the instrument(s). Even if you consider it placebo, it's all part of the experience. Sometimes people feel different inside a red sports car.

    Thanks? I think that's a compliment LOL.
     
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  10. frank falbo

    frank falbo SS.org Regular

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    No offense meant, but this is your straw man. In an amplified environment, the wood's influence on tone is reinforced by the SPL pushing out of the speaker into the air. If you lined up 5 solid mahogany Juniors for example, and 5 solid maple Juniors, similar in every other way possible, an experienced artist (or I) could show you how the mahogany ones "do" certain things and the maple ones do something different. Whether it's feedback of certain notes, or the midrange character when I'm pushing the amp hard, etc. But of course that would be considered leading, confirmation bias, etc. And everybody still gets their story. Double blind tests simply aren't the correct experiment for the data we'd be looking to extrapolate. Some data about race cars can be collected by who won the race. But other data can only be collected by asking the driver how they felt. Double blind listening only tests are the equivalent of watching the finish line, whereas we want to hear from the driver about how the car behaved in the corners, for example.

    As others have said I'd like for this thread not to devolve into the tonewood debate. I've personally conducted the R&D in this regard, but I work with NDA's and some of my own R&D is proprietary. So I usually bow out of these discussions anyway.
     
  11. prlgmnr

    prlgmnr ...that kind of idea

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    What you're engaging in here isn't science, it's scientism.
     
  12. A-Branger

    A-Branger SS.org Regular

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    who cares, the guitar body and necks looks pretty :) thats what we all care about (even if you dont fully accept it), a beautiful instrument would make you pick it up and play it. The woods used elt it be for the luthier who has the right amount of experience to know what works best in looks, sound, tools, ect ect.

    at the end there would be an amazing looking and sounding guitar, the only real question is "what color/finish do you want yours?"
     
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  13. narad

    narad SS.org Regular

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    Sorry dude, this isn't how science works.
     
  14. prlgmnr

    prlgmnr ...that kind of idea

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    Yeah dude, but that's just like....your hypothesis, man. Have you even run a double blind trial?
     
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  15. KnightBrolaire

    KnightBrolaire gearwhoricus americanus

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  16. narad

    narad SS.org Regular

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    That's old stuff though, so what are we supposed to talk about?

    I still don't catch if my question was answered: do we have to order soapbar pickups?

    man, someone needs to throw together a visualizer for different specs/finishes like on the strandberg site. The bevels create some interesting aesthetic opportunities but I can't quite visualize them in my head.
     
  17. theicon2125

    theicon2125 SS.org Regular

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    They said there will be the option to have other pickups in one of the NAMM videos.
     
  18. narad

    narad SS.org Regular

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    But I'm interested to know if right now you're forced to have soapbars on the 8s, or if you can have open coil slanted pickups instead.
     
  19. Lorcan Ward

    Lorcan Ward 7slinger

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    :agreed:

    Pickups are proof. If tonewood was a myth then pickup charts would make sense. I wish it was that easy to design a pickup with fixed frequencies. Then you could actually design pickups that would sound consistent from one guitar to another. Pickup EQ charts and descriptions are one of the most inaccurate and unusable pieces of info you can get when it comes to guitar simply because the woods and construction of a guitar can drastically change their sound. Nazgul in a Basswood Ibanez, bright and thin for soloing, Nazgul in a Mahogany Ibby, smooth and thick for soloing. So which is the Nazgul, is it thin or thick?

    Do some people just hear a flat neutral sound when they play a guitar :scratch: I'm at a bit of advantage since I have very good hearing but I can't understand how people don't hear such distinct changes in a guitars tone. Its like tasting the difference between rasberry and strawberry.
     
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  20. theicon2125

    theicon2125 SS.org Regular

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    I highly doubt that we'll be limited to soapbar pickups. Everyone will just have to bear in mind that the pickups will probably cost more because they'll have to be custom made for the angle of the fan.
     

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