Need help with a decent 8 string tone.

Discussion in 'Extended Range Guitars' started by Connor, Sep 6, 2010.

  1. Connor

    Connor Guy

    Messages:
    298
    Likes Received:
    162
    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2009
    Location:
    Australia
    My first 8 string came today. Its a schecter Damien Elite 8.
    EMG 808 pickups, 26.5 scale, Schecter thru birdge, 1 tone, 1 volume, 3 way switch.
    Only thing is I cant get it to sound how I want.
    Ive had my Ibanez 7 string for about a year, that was fairly easy to get a decent tone with.
    I've tried all kinds of things to get the Schecter sounding decent but its going nowhere, the f# just takes over everything.
    I want to get both the dirty and clean sounds similar to that of Tosin Abasi.
    I've boosted the mids, cut down the lows, added more into the high end but nothing will happen.
    At the moment im going through an MXR fullbore metal into a Marshall MG15.
    I think the amp might be the problem, I dont think the solid state 15W can handle the lower range.
    can anyone offer me any advice?
     
  2. xtrustisyoursx

    xtrustisyoursx SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    1,752
    Likes Received:
    171
    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2008
    Location:
    oklahoma city, OK
    What size strings do you use?
     
  3. MaxOfMetal

    MaxOfMetal Likes trem wankery. Super Moderator

    Messages:
    29,631
    Likes Received:
    8,292
    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2008
    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    What do your gain/drive settings look like on both your amp and pedal?
     
  4. Connor

    Connor Guy

    Messages:
    298
    Likes Received:
    162
    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2009
    Location:
    Australia
    Im not 100% sure as I got it today but im fairly sure the schecter factory sets them up with
    10-13-17-30-42-52-64-74
     
  5. Connor

    Connor Guy

    Messages:
    298
    Likes Received:
    162
    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2009
    Location:
    Australia
    No gain/ drive on the amp, on the pedal gain is on just past half way
     
  6. Vinnydude

    Vinnydude The Shipman Project

    Messages:
    119
    Likes Received:
    10
    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2010
    Location:
    Lancaster, UK
    Am i reading this correctly.

    You want a sound like tosins?

    Through a marshal mg15?

    A tiny, under a hundred dollar, practice amp?!

    Surely you shouldn't be having to ask whats wrong with your tone on a forum when using something like that.

    For your information though, you want tosins tone, you'll need a custom ibby going into an Axe-FX Ultra. I reckon in total will set you back the best part of $8k.
     
  7. Connor

    Connor Guy

    Messages:
    298
    Likes Received:
    162
    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2009
    Location:
    Australia
    Similar, not exactly the same.
    My guitar has the same woods, neck and pickups as tosins.
    I just want more clarity out of it rather than having the low end over-riding everything, which was stated in the original post.
     
  8. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

    Messages:
    15,221
    Likes Received:
    3,103
    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2005
    Location:
    St. Johnsbury, VT USA
    First, as pointed out, and as you suspect, your amp will not have a very good response in that frequency range. The preamp is not designed for high gain on the low-end, and the speaker is not going to handle the low register well at all.

    Second, on such a deep string, fretted notes are just not going to sound that great, even with the 26.5" scale length, because 26.5" is not much longer than 25.5" for string gauges that high.

    Also, the string gauges you listed result in nearly double the tension on the A2 .042" (~130 N) as on the low F#1 .074" (~70 N). You may want to re-evaluate the strings you use under this light. Using a larger string for the low F# will provide more tension, but at the cost of clarity. A .074" at 46Hz and 26.5" has an inharmonic error of about 25 cents. Cranking the thickness up to .100" to get the tension to match the fifth string will increase the error to 60 cents, so the harmonics will be more than double as muddy.
     
    jemfloral and JPhoenix19 like this.
  9. Vinnydude

    Vinnydude The Shipman Project

    Messages:
    119
    Likes Received:
    10
    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2010
    Location:
    Lancaster, UK
    Conner, i'll rephrase my first statement to be even more blunt.

    Guitar = fine

    Amp = peice of crap

    Is that simple enough?!

    It doesn't matter how good your guitar is, if you plug it in to a shit amp, it will sound LIKE SHIT!!!
     
  10. Distortion

    Distortion EET FUK

    Messages:
    405
    Likes Received:
    28
    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2008
    Location:
    Qu├ębec, QC
    Hmmmm... Don't want to high-jack the thread but what is his inharmonic error you speak of bostjan ? I'm very interested as i'm trying to achieve such a low tunning on a RG7620 25.5". I've just ordered a .72 and a .74 string to experiment with. I've tried .80 and as others have pointed out, it did have a very nice tension and it sound very nice and throaty unplugged but muddy and dull distorted.

    So, if you can explain, what is inharmonic error and how is it calculated? thanks! :)
     
  11. Razzy

    Razzy [10]

    Messages:
    2,958
    Likes Received:
    692
    Joined:
    May 29, 2010
    Location:
    Amarillo, TX

    I almost want to rep you for this post.
     
    SlamLiguez likes this.
  12. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

    Messages:
    15,221
    Likes Received:
    3,103
    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2005
    Location:
    St. Johnsbury, VT USA
    Inharmonic error is the physical property of a string to behave like a bell instead of a string. A perfect string should have length>>thickness, but as length approaches something closer to the thickness, the "string" becomes a metal bar, so it will sound wonky, like a thumb piano (malimba) rather than a string.

    The error is calculated by the equation G= ( n^2 * pi^3 * d^4 * Y ) / ( 128 * L^2 * F )

    where n is the harmonic number, pi is 3.14159265, d is the thickness of the string (in meters), Y is young's modulus (in pascals), L is the scale length (in meters) and F is the tension on the string (in newtons).

    To convert to cents, one must take 1200 * log2 (frequency of first harmonic / expected fundamental frequency)

    This is bad news for extended range guitarist wanting a clear tone on the low notes, because the inharmonicity is strongly governed by string gauge. So tuning a guitar to bass frequencies at 25.5" means either floppy strings or wonky harmonics.
     
  13. Customisbetter

    Customisbetter WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot Contributor

    Messages:
    7,608
    Likes Received:
    789
    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2009
    Location:
    Lansing, MI
    I never thought i would ever see this. Ever.
     
    Dineley likes this.
  14. Vinnydude

    Vinnydude The Shipman Project

    Messages:
    119
    Likes Received:
    10
    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2010
    Location:
    Lancaster, UK
    I'm not disrespecting marshall, hell no!

    My first post was disregarded so i mearly put in a simpler form that you cannot get an amazing 8 string tone similar to the sound of Tosin Abasi out of a 15 watt practice amp. Its NOT rocket science people come on!!!
     
  15. Vinnydude

    Vinnydude The Shipman Project

    Messages:
    119
    Likes Received:
    10
    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2010
    Location:
    Lancaster, UK
    Oh wait, report or reputation?! lol :p
     
  16. Razzy

    Razzy [10]

    Messages:
    2,958
    Likes Received:
    692
    Joined:
    May 29, 2010
    Location:
    Amarillo, TX
    Reputation, lol.

    I thought it was hilarious.
     
  17. Vinnydude

    Vinnydude The Shipman Project

    Messages:
    119
    Likes Received:
    10
    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2010
    Location:
    Lancaster, UK
    Why thank you, its so true though!

    I really must have my 'world is out to get me' head on today! lmao
     
  18. Stealthdjentstic

    Stealthdjentstic Banned

    Messages:
    21,243
    Likes Received:
    2,493
    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC, Canadia
    Really man? As far as practice amps go the MG is probably the worst of the bunch :lol: You aren't going to be getting Tosin's tone from that PoS. You really should have spent that money on a new amp instead. Seriously, you aren't going to be getting anything close to his tone with that. I have no idea why you went and bought a guitar like that without upgrading your amp first.
     
  19. Vinnydude

    Vinnydude The Shipman Project

    Messages:
    119
    Likes Received:
    10
    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2010
    Location:
    Lancaster, UK
    I've heard good this about this one, you should check it out

    [​IMG]
     
  20. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

    Messages:
    15,221
    Likes Received:
    3,103
    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2005
    Location:
    St. Johnsbury, VT USA
    ^ Hey, I have one of those, in Red! :hbang:
     

Share This Page