Music: Art or Entertainment?

Discussion in 'General Music Discussion' started by mrlespaulman, Sep 29, 2011.

  1. mrlespaulman

    mrlespaulman SS.org Regular

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    I was recently told by a self-proclaimed "virtuoso" and "professional" musician that all music from modern times is purely for surface-level entertainment value. According to him, only music from the Baroque-Romantic period has any "Art-Value" or deeper meaning.

    Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love listening to good classical music compositions. But isn't it a little vain to say that NO music from the modern era has deeper meaning? Obviously pop-radio-garbage is what he's referring to here, but it frustrates me to think that a "knowledgeable" musician has little to no knowledge of the current state of good music. Does Pat Methany pump out stale pop tunes? Does John Petrucci play his fantastic improv for entertainment value? I don't think so.

    Am I right? Or did all music become stale crap after the turn of the century?
     
  2. in-pursuit

    in-pursuit SS.org Regular

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    whoever you heard that from is on par, as far as ignorance goes, with the people who only listen to top forty and claim that music like jazz/classical/metal/insert genre here has no tune, rhythm, or musical value.
     
  3. bandinaboy

    bandinaboy SS.org Unsui

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    This just turns down to the opinion on "what is considered art" You could even view each genre has aspects of art and entertainment. Like pop music is generally mostly entertainment value. And Prog is generally art value. but genres like jazz can be either. And I suppose it all boils down to the song and intent. But I personally think there is plenty of art out there today in this century. Just because "its not good" doesn't mean its not art either. It all boils down to listeners opinion and musicians intent.
     
  4. brutalwizard

    brutalwizard Pretty Your Petunia

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    i don't know who your talking to but music is nothing more then organized sound and silence.

    music is the craft of pitch, volume, duration and timbre.

    what you see it as beyond that simple concept, is subjective.

    so don't argue something with no answer?
     
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  5. mrlespaulman

    mrlespaulman SS.org Regular

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    Exactly my point.
     
  6. asher

    asher So Did We

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    Yes.

    I would like to point to intent, but that's not a very defensible position.
     
  7. Harry

    Harry Doom man of Doom. Contributor

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    To be honest, the only appropriate response I could think of to that is "LOL".
    There is just no reasoning with people like that quite frankly
     
  8. Explorer

    Explorer He seldomly knows...

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    What jumped out at me is that he's asserting that he himself is incapable of writing any music with any "art-value" or deeper meaning. That's a pretty funny assertion, and I'd bring it to his attention as often as possible. *laugh*

    Geez, some pieces which immediately jumped to mind were Respighi's Pines of Rome (1924) and Thelonius Monk's Round Midnight (1944).

    Any person who just dismisses Gershwin's Rhapsody in Blue is just a pretentious twat.
     
  9. Cheesebuiscut

    Cheesebuiscut Loves his Q-tuners

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    I never got this whole one or the other thing.
    Isn't art a form of entertainment?
    Can't something that's entertaining be a work of art?
    Don't the two often go hand in hand?

    I be crazy some times.
     
  10. guitareben

    guitareben SS.org Regular

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    Surely it's oneself's decision as to what is art and what is entertainment. It's not like new music is intrinsically NOT art, as if there were some universal law against newer musics being art...

    Either way, who cares right? Music is just... awesome :D
     
  11. DLG

    DLG not guthrie govan

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    you hung out with Yngwie?
     
  12. Ishan

    Ishan Giant Fridge Magnet Contributor

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    So Béla Bartók's music is not art because he did most of his work in the 20th century?
    That guy is stupid...
     
  13. JPMike

    JPMike Totally Random

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    Well, I truly believe Music is Art, no matter what genre.

    Evolution wise, music hasn't been evolved since the time Schillinger and Scriabin were alive. That's true, we reached an edge there and we still haven't been able to surpass that. Meaning, music hasn't come up with anything new, language wise.

    And, as Plato's "Πολιτεία" says, Music were called all the arts back in Ancient Greece and then the Catholics or dunno whoever did, baptimised Music the hearing/listening arts.
    So in my mind and as my guitar teacher likes to say, Music is the ART of Arts.
     
  14. AcousticMinja

    AcousticMinja String Theorist Contributor

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    I'm guessing it depends on what artist you're talking to.
    I've talked to people before who simply play music to make money. So they'll play whatever is entertaining and sells to the crowd.

    For me, it's just something I do. it's a way of expressing myself.
    I play from the heart. I guess it's cause I'm a very emotional person, but still. The guys in my band are the same way.
    And I know a lot of people on here are like that, too. They play from within.

    To say that all new music is purely for entertainment value is, well, in my opinion, very ignorant. Take a look around you, forget the mainstream media for a minute and go watch some local bands. Sure, you'll find some who want to just make money, but look closer, you'll see those who really "feel" their music. That's art to me. Regardless of whether or not they're good in your opinion. Especially when you see a band who all literally perform together and feel the music as one.


    art-Noun
    1. The expression or application of human creative skill and imagination
     
  15. thedonal

    thedonal SS.org Regular

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    Frankly, the guy sounds like a bit of a cunt to me. I'd best avoid him...
     
  16. Kurkkuviipale

    Kurkkuviipale Another Sinking ....

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    Art is entertainment.
     
  17. BigBaldIan

    BigBaldIan Bald and gribbly.

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    :agreed: Hello Mr. Virtuoso, please point bazooka at foot and feel free to pull the trigger whenever you please. All humour aside I've had several conversations with a good friend of mine about this subject, whilst driving to lunch. If we treat music as a meme, then by definition all we are hearing now from the Baroque and Romantic periods are the ideas that were persistent enough to survive. Given a time machine, I'm sure we would find in the same given periods, the equivalent of ephemeral music that was designed to be superficially entertaining with no deeper meaning.

    Given the same time machine and projecting the same time into the future, only the music deemed by society worthy of saving will still be remembered. Perhaps more will survive due to technological paradigm shifts, but how much of it will still be played?

    To assert that no modern music has value based on the small percentile of music that has survived from older periods, shows deeply flawed logic and astonishing arrogance in my humble opinion. It's like saying that because a Rolls Royce Silver Ghost is a classic car, nothing made today has that potential.:lol:

    Edit: Note to self will listen to Rhapsody in Blue tonight. If I remember correctly the famous opening clarinet line was originally done as a joke, but Gershwin loved it.
     
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  18. brutalwizard

    brutalwizard Pretty Your Petunia

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    to me personally music is but, 500 beavers screaming in unison with a Canadian accent, over amplified water dripping arhythmically to the sound of a ceiling fan with a Pokemon card glued to it. Thus causing an ambient screeching in the process and varying in volume, only given a beat by the bumps of the dry ceiling paint occurring in 5/8 time.

    When something is as vague and subjective as music, it can be perceived as anything.
     
  19. Demiurge

    Demiurge Intrepid Jackass

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    Wouldn't lose too much sleep over the jackass making that claim in the OP. Idiots like that will always make ridiculous arguments that essentially boil down to assertions that the object of their particular interest is just so much more "important" than what other people are interested in.

    Classical snobbery is the art-criticism equivalent of lamenting about how comic books no longer cost a nickel- it's low-level nostalgia and takes no effort to cultivate. The thing is, that era has had the benefit of centuries of time of natural selection where the good elements have been canonized and the shitty elements are largely forgotten. I bet that there was a lot of shitty music back then that simply didn't survive. Our era might not have that same benefit, thanks to digital storage and CDs being pressed by the 100k's.
     
  20. BigBaldIan

    BigBaldIan Bald and gribbly.

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    Exactly the point I was making earlier, glad to see I'm not the only one.
     

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