Mother bear kills cub and then itself

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by DrakkarTyrannis, Aug 17, 2011.

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  1. highlordmugfug

    highlordmugfug themuthaphukkindeath

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    Organic Certification

    Well, there's a difference between something that's certified organic, and "all natural" and stuff like that. And a lot of packaging tries to tie stuff like organic and all natural together to confuse the issue.
    Questions and Answers About Organic - Organic Trade Association

    I'm fairly certain (though not 100% and I am getting really sleepy right now) that Organic in relation to produce just means grown without pesticides. I'd like to think that it also means non-GMO, but I'm not certain on that.

    from: What does organic mean?
    What is organic food?

    Organic food is produced by farmers who avoid the use of bio-persistent nonselective chemical pesticides, fungicides and fertilizers. Farmers emphasize the use of renewable (or sustainable) resources and the conservation of soil and water to enhance environmental quality for future generations.
    The USDA says:
    Organic food is produced by farmers who emphasize the use of renewable resources and the conservation of soil and water to enhance environmental quality for future generations. Organic meat, poultry, eggs, and dairy products come from animals that are given no antibiotics or growth hormones. Organic food is produced without using most conventional pesticides; fertilizers made with synthetic ingredients or sewage sludge; bioengineering; or ionizing radiation. Before a product can be labeled ‘organic,’ a Government-approved certifier inspects the farm where the food is grown to make sure the farmer is following all the rules necessary to meet USDA organic standards. Companies that handle or process organic food before it gets to your local supermarket or restaurant must be certified, too.” Consumer Brochure, USDA National Organic Program
    The specifics vary depending upon the type of food and its method of production. For example, Organic meat, poultry, eggs, and dairy products come from animals that are given no antibiotics or growth hormones. Organic fruits and vegetables are grown without using most conventional pesticides, fertilizers made with synthetic ingredients or sewage sludge; bioengineer seed or plants; or ionizing radiation.
    Before a product can be labeled "organic," a Government-approved certifier inspects the farm where the food is grown to make sure the farmer is following all the rules necessary to meet USDA organic standards. Companies that handle or process organic food before it gets to your local supermarket or restaurant must be certified, too.
     
  2. BigPhi84

    BigPhi84 Pronounced "FEE"

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    Are you not saying that "humans shouldn't eat meat"?
     
  3. Adam Of Angels

    Adam Of Angels The GAS Man Contributor

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    I don't see why you would have mentioned it if it weren't a problem.

    For starters, I will once again reiterate that pre-modern man (or rather, our ancestors from before 2.3 million years in the past) were less cognitively developed than we are. You posted the article, and I point that out because if you didn't subscribe to this idea, you wouldn't have posted the article. I also subscribe to the idea.

    My original point in response to the posting of that article is that Modern humans are intelligent enough to know that we don't need animal products to survive, and that our ancient ancestors (those mentioned in the article) were not necessarily intelligent enough to know that we don't need animal products to survive. The bottom line is that they were effectively retarded compared to us, and its therefore slly to imply that we need meat because our less-cognitively-developed ancestors benefited from consuming it. That's all.



    I actually have no idea what you're saying here, but I explained myself previously... Even though my point was originally clear enough to understand.
     
  4. highlordmugfug

    highlordmugfug themuthaphukkindeath

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    I think (though I can't speak for him) what he's saying is that not eating meat is more compassionate, that it's not necessary to eat meat, and that he personally believes that we shouldn't, but not that he's trying to make people not.


    And it's Kent. :cheers:
     
  5. Adam Of Angels

    Adam Of Angels The GAS Man Contributor

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    I never said that in this thread. I said they don't have to. I might have said that they shouldn't eat meat if they want to be morally sound, but I don't even think I said that.
     
  6. Daemoniac

    Daemoniac Rivethead Magnate. Contributor

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    I've been tossing up posting in here since I read through the first couple of pages on Friday night, and basically only have this to say;

    Fuck the people who do this and fuck the culture that is so backwards it still supports it. This is blatant cruelty for no purpose other than as an utterly obsolete custom with no actual effects that should have died out in the god damn dark ages.
     
  7. Sicarius

    Sicarius Reggie J Worthington

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    I could seriously go for some processed chicken nuggets right now.

    and some buffalo sauce.

    damn.
     
  8. athawulf

    athawulf SS.org Regular

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    Actually, you said this.

    It's merely that you don't know about human evolution, and that's ok, I'm here to tell you about it. There are modern humans, and there are even creatures of the exact same species called anatomically modern humans because they are physically the same!

    And once again you're missing the point. Pre-modern humans were intelligent enough to understand that meat and the nutrients it contains can be found elsewhere. I just don't think you understand the difference between cognitive ability and available knowledge.

    And for the record, I never said humans need meat. So learn about human evolution, and make a distinction between cognitive capabilities and available knowledge and this discussion can finally go back on topic :yesway:


     
  9. athawulf

    athawulf SS.org Regular

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    Agreed. This trash is unacceptable. But I'm tempted to now derail this into a history lesson after mentioning the dark ages :lol:

    jkjk.

    No but really, that shit is fucking disgusting and wrong.
     
  10. BigPhi84

    BigPhi84 Pronounced "FEE"

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    Check these out:
    Beriberi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Pellagra - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    I know that, in our modern culture with an understanding of nutritional requirements, this wouldn't happen again, but it DID happen at one point in our history.
     
  11. Adam Of Angels

    Adam Of Angels The GAS Man Contributor

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    I was 100% talking about modern humans compared to the ancestors of ours being mentioned in that article. I was obviously doing this, since that article was the subject at hand. If I used terminology that is sub-par in your understanding, I apologize, but given my clarification, I made no logical or factual fallacies. There is no way of saying that those ancient ancestors had the cognitive ability to speculate whether or not meat was a necessity, and so I called the suggestion of your implication upon posting that article silly. The article was written in order to illustrate how our ancestors ate meat in order to become smarter..... So if they were less intelligent before this process, it's safe to speculate that they were perhaps incapable of understanding that meat was not a necessity. Either way, the point is that we currently have the capacity and the research to know better. Thats all that matters here.
     
  12. highlordmugfug

    highlordmugfug themuthaphukkindeath

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    Oh yeah, I know that there are possible nutrient deficiencies/diseases (either through inadequate intake or through interruption/blockage of proper absorption) I made sure to say "all" in that post just to clarify to Sicarius that being vegetarian or vegan wasn't synonymous with being nutrient deficient.

    EDIT: That was the only point I was trying to make with that, that the first didn't necessitate the second.
     
  13. Daemoniac

    Daemoniac Rivethead Magnate. Contributor

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    "Dark ages" meant in a figurative sense, seeing as how animal cruelty on a massive, socially accepted scale didn't even really die out in Western culture until the mid 20th century. I apply the same logic there though, shit should have died a fucking long time before it did (has...).

    Hell, I still hear stories from my partner about the disgusting people that come through her vet clinic, and even that makes my blood absolutely boil.


    As for the vegetarian/meat argument, from what I understand, the human body is built to be omnivorous. We were a hunter/gatherer species millions of years ago and so (no doubt more as a result of availability than anything) our bodies are built to consume both (so we are 'able' to consume both, not purpose built to consume one or the other entirely). I'm not going to get into what is more healthy, partially because I don't know (there are long-winded arguments for both sides, each making their own points) and partially because I simply do not give a rats ass and this is not the time or the place for that argument.
     
  14. athawulf

    athawulf SS.org Regular

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    No, they didn't eat to become smarter. Humans snatched up a new habit based on available resources that ultimately (argued in this article and others of a more academic nature) benefited them.

    You're correct, we currently have the research and knowledge to know that the nutrients in meat are not exclusive to meat- and you're also wrong. It has nothing to do with intelligence, cognitive ability, or pre-modern humans being retarded.

    Thanks for the clarification, hm it may have been the "all natural" terminology and the attempted interchangeability of the two terms that confused me like you were saying.
     
  15. athawulf

    athawulf SS.org Regular

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    I know, it was merely a joke at my recent de-railment of the thread.

    But to be honest, I think an internet forum is actually the time and place for the argument. I don't think any amount of apparent anger or "on topicness" is doing any favor to these tortured animals.

    The topic came about with animal welfare as it pertains to eating habits, and as I do not empathize with the vegan and vegetarian lifestyle, I still find it perfectly relevant and fair for them to bring up the topic that we here in America still treat animals like shit.

    But I'm sure we all share the same amount of hate for the treatment of these bears and the people who could do such a thing.
     
  16. Adam Of Angels

    Adam Of Angels The GAS Man Contributor

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    They began eating a lot of meat, which aided in the development of their brain...... What are you trying to say here? I didn't say they chose to eat meat to become smarter, I'm saying it's just what happened... Well, no, that's what the article is saying.


    Again:

    You presented that article in this thread so as to emphasize the importance of meat in the human diet. Otherwise, it was a random article with no value, so I won't assume that you randomly posted it for no reason.
    I said that while I agree with the implications of that article, it has nothing to do with with modern humans since there is a difference in cognitive ability between us and those ancestors of ours, effectively making us much different. Basically, that article is irrelevant here, thats all I'm saying. The later point I made were just efforts to defend my choice of words when what's-his-name challenged me.

    I'm getting awfully tired, y'all.
     
  17. BigPhi84

    BigPhi84 Pronounced "FEE"

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    Like "sleepy-tired" or "I'm tired of saying the same thing over and over" tired? :raspberry:

    EDIT: Man, there's no raspberry emoticon? This one:fawk: is a little too strong for my playful banter. :lol::lol::lol:
     
  18. Adam Of Angels

    Adam Of Angels The GAS Man Contributor

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    Like, I've been lacking sleep all week and just flew all day and now it's 4:47 am tired..... Plus a healthy serving of "I'm repeating myself ad infinitum" tired.
     
  19. BigPhi84

    BigPhi84 Pronounced "FEE"

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    Are you in Florida? Pennsylvania? Lithuania? :lol::lol::lol:
     
  20. Adam Of Angels

    Adam Of Angels The GAS Man Contributor

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    Haha, just got to Flo Rida. Back to offensive humidity and armies of mosquitos
     
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