Mother bear kills cub and then itself

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by DrakkarTyrannis, Aug 17, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Adam Of Angels

    Adam Of Angels The GAS Man Contributor

    Messages:
    8,731
    Likes Received:
    719
    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2008
    Location:
    Mount Pleasant, PA
    Retarded, in regards to cognitive ability, means Underdeveloped. Compared to modern man, pre-modern man is retarded. That's how I stated it because that's how I meant it. I'm not considering environment or proportionality, I'm simply comparing the two. It has nothing to do with being fair, it's just a comparison.
     
  2. athawulf

    athawulf SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    1,178
    Likes Received:
    45
    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2009
    Location:
    vsa
    I feel a bruise worthy facepalm coming on. :wallbash: That's not a fact. I know its hard to believe that you aren't the golden star of an evolutionary ladder.

    Evolution isn't a ladder, you're not the golden star. Chimps are just as evolved as you, they do perfectly fine in their environment. Maybe it's too hurtful for you to accept that less civilized and less classical humans had larger brains than we do now. So no, we do not have more "computing/processing power". Look up how much of the brain is actually even used please.
     
  3. Sicarius

    Sicarius Reggie J Worthington

    Messages:
    3,021
    Likes Received:
    123
    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    Location:
    Conroe, Tx
    If that's the way you interpret it.

    you two are just jerking each other off, and ignoring, and misreading what anyone else has posted. You're just as stuck to your opinions on the matter and "facts", as I am, that you're changing meanings upon critique, and instead relying on being condescending, and rude, and riding your high-horse of vegetarianism.
     
  4. Adam Of Angels

    Adam Of Angels The GAS Man Contributor

    Messages:
    8,731
    Likes Received:
    719
    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2008
    Location:
    Mount Pleasant, PA
    What's with you guys completely misreading and exaggerating what is being said? You said that we're lecturing you about what to eat... I said that nobody here is doing that, so I proposed what is one of the only explanations for you interpreting this discussion in such a way: the human brain reacts to new/conflicting ideas in the same way that it reacts to threatening/fight-or-flight situations. This is fact. So, my assumption was that you took my mentioning that animal products aren't necessary for human survival as a lecture on how you should manage your diet.. Which would have been a misinterpretation of what's going on here. Make sense?

    My apologies - I used the word "caveman", which is not a scientific term in the least. I'm referring to the article you linked us to. The article is talking about the point in time/our evolution when we became smarter/more cognitively developed. Before that happened, we were less cognitively developed. We had to be less cognitively developed at one point in order to get to the point where we were more cognitively developed..... Right? I mean, you're the one that posted the article, dude. So by what logic can you say that I'm wrong in saying that the human ancestors mentioned in that article were essentially retarded when compared to modern humans?
     
  5. Sicarius

    Sicarius Reggie J Worthington

    Messages:
    3,021
    Likes Received:
    123
    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    Location:
    Conroe, Tx
    This has been the entirety of the thread.

    both sides hitting the same wall, just on different sides.

    No one is winning.

    no one is losing.

    We can let it stop, or we can keep on headbutting a wall.

    I'm for either option.
     
  6. highlordmugfug

    highlordmugfug themuthaphukkindeath

    Messages:
    4,659
    Likes Received:
    470
    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2009
    Location:
    _
    Never said we were objectively better or anything to the order of "MODERN HUMANS FTW"

    And since there's no specified period of time that we agreed on, it depends on how far back you want to go to see how the brain sizes/cognitive abilities differ.

    Early Human Evolution:. Homo ergaster and erectus
    "Homo erectus heads were strikingly different from ours in shape. They had relatively strong muscles on the back of their necks. Their foreheads were shallow, sloping back from very prominent bony brow ridges (i.e., supraorbital tori [​IMG]). Compared to modern humans, the Homo erectus brain case was more elongated from front to back and less spherical. As a consequence, the frontal and temporal lobes of their brains were narrower, suggesting that they would have had somewhat lower mental ability."


    EDIT:
    That's not the way I interpret it: people can live without meat. There's no interpretation needed. People do it all the time, there's plenty of examples that've already been presented. If you want to continue to ignore facts, go on ahead and be as wrong and ignorant as you please.
     
  7. BigPhi84

    BigPhi84 Pronounced "FEE"

    Messages:
    3,664
    Likes Received:
    489
    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2008
    Location:
    Ga
    Arrrggghhh, I have to get back into this debate!!!! :pulls hair out:

    FACT: Humans do not need to consume meat or animal products. B1 and B12 are the only vitamin that is hard to get in a Vegan diet, and there are supplements that you can buy that can "supplement" said diet.

    FACT: In uber-commercial farms, a lot of animal treatment is cruel and tortuous.

    Everything else that you've stated, Adam, is Belief. Now, I'm glad that you base you beliefs on facts (sure beats the alternative.) You feel that eating meat is wrong and I accept that. What I don't accept is the fact that you are touting your beliefs as fact. The great thing about being omnivores is we have the ability to choose to eat meat (like Sicarius) or to not eat meat (like highlordmugfug). The freedom of choice is one thing that separates us from the herbivores and carnivores.

    If I ate one portion of meat every day for 50 years, I would not be less healthy than you. The problem with our culture is that we overeat meat (because the umami flavors of amino acids taste so good!) In history, having meat at the table was a sign of wealth, and as Americans, we like to feel like we have monies! For instance, there's no reason that Porterhouses should be served on a plate to one person. Nobody can eat 23 ounces of steak by themselves and have it digest properly and affect us in a positive way. I call it the "Thanksgiving-everyday" syndrome. Americans love that heavy-stuffed feeling.

    Growing up in an Asian American household, I was used to seeing a lot of rice, sauteed vegetables, tofu, salads, and a small portion of meat. The small portion of meat was shared between the entire family. It wasn't till I was older that I realized that Americans over-ate, especially when it comes to meat. I mean, the Monster burger (while tasty) is the epitome of America's obsession with meat. 2/3lb patty, 1410 calories, and 107 grams of fat, most of which is saturated fat.



    On a side note, I want to say that I respect vegetarians, vegans (like highlordmugfug), and pescatarians (sorta what you are right now, Adam) immensely. In my uber-religious days, I participated in a Daniel Fast. If you don't know what that is, it's 3 days of of complete fasting (you can drink water), followed by 24 days of eating only fruits, vegetables, whole grains, nuts, legumes, brown rice, whole grain breads, seeds, and that's pretty much it. Refined sugars, meat, milk and milk products, white rice/bread, sodas, teas, alcohol, tobacco, coffee, etc. were off the table (literally :lol:).

    I felt GREAT! I lost 16 pounds of weight (mainly b/c I'm a Dr. Pepper addict), I could go to sleep early and wake up early refreshed (b/c of the no caffeine dealie), and my mind was more focused because I wasn't always thinking about what I was going to eat next. Since I'm a big fast food eater, I had to learn how to cook at home as no restaurants around here really offer Vegan options, which essentially coincides with the Daniel Fast requirements. Most of all, it gave me a time to realize how addicted Americans are to food and drinks. Why does somebody need to drink a cup of coffee every day to "wake up"? Why do I get headaches if I don't have my soft-drink? Why does everything taste better with butter? :lol:

    It was an eye-opening experience. I felt like I could understand why Vegans choose their lifestyle, and from then on, I never made fun of those tree-huggers again. :lol::lol::lol: Sure, after the Daniel Fast was over, I didn't stick to the diet since I'm lazy and poor (organic stuff costs a lot!!!!:lol:) and the convenience and time-saving benefits of "eating out" won, but I still keep a lot of what I learned on that Fast with me, especially the opinion that Hummus and Pita chips are an amazing combination!!! :yum: Also, toasted pita pockets with organic peanut butter kicks a regular PB&J in the nuts. :nutkick:



    I don't know why I shared all that with you. Maybe, it was to show that I can relate to both sides. Or maybe, it's because I can't sleep. :lol:
     
    vampiregenocide likes this.
  8. Adam Of Angels

    Adam Of Angels The GAS Man Contributor

    Messages:
    8,731
    Likes Received:
    719
    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2008
    Location:
    Mount Pleasant, PA
    What beliefs are you referring to? I'm really not sharing any beliefs, as they're irrelevant.
     
  9. highlordmugfug

    highlordmugfug themuthaphukkindeath

    Messages:
    4,659
    Likes Received:
    470
    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2009
    Location:
    _
    Not to be nit picky Phi, :lol: but I'm pretty sure that B1 can be gotten in adequate amounts through legumes and grains. It's just B12 that I know is a tricky little bugger.

    Also, excellent post. :yesway:
     
  10. Sicarius

    Sicarius Reggie J Worthington

    Messages:
    3,021
    Likes Received:
    123
    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    Location:
    Conroe, Tx
    I've never been able to figure out where the high cost of organic foods comes from :/

    well said, Phi.
     
  11. highlordmugfug

    highlordmugfug themuthaphukkindeath

    Messages:
    4,659
    Likes Received:
    470
    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2009
    Location:
    _
    I can actually explain that one!

    It's because of food subsidies that favor cheap and wide-use foods like corn, soybeans, potatoes and such. If you're really interested there's a lot of information about it out there, but basically it's because the 'unhealthy' foods are favored, while the healthier alternatives like fruits and vegetables aren't, hence the market costs for them are higher in most cases.

    EDIT: That's in the USA at least, I don't know much about the food production for the entire world.
     
  12. Sicarius

    Sicarius Reggie J Worthington

    Messages:
    3,021
    Likes Received:
    123
    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    Location:
    Conroe, Tx
    It just seems with the big trend being organic food, that it would negate that.

    Like, a regular carrot, one that's grown on a farm that uses pesticides is cheaper than an Organic carrot.

    it's still a carrot, but because one's labeled as organic it's more expensive.

    Is that trend riding, or favoring "cheaper" goods?
     
  13. highlordmugfug

    highlordmugfug themuthaphukkindeath

    Messages:
    4,659
    Likes Received:
    470
    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2009
    Location:
    _
    'Organic food' has gotten really popular and buzz-worthy lately, but such a huge amount of time and money has been invested to make the food production system the way it is now that it will/would take a hell of a lot longer than the few years the organic label has been rising in popularity to change the way it's set up currently.
    Most likely that has to do with the monopolization (for lack of a better word) of the food industry and the want to keep the status quo.
    Most of the worlds food comes from a pretty small percentage of farms/owners/businesses (compared to the way things used to be in the past).

    My guess is, it's "easier" for the businesses to keep doing things the way they are, and by making organicly labeled foods from the bigger companies more expensive, they both raise profits and keep people believing that organic foods are too expensive to be viable so they won't have to change what they're doing on a large scale.


    It's a tad conspiracy theory-esque, but it's very probably.

    EDIT: And the relative high cost of most organic foods, vs fruits and vegetables being more expensive than chips and sodas and such are really 2 different issues. They're vaguely related, but they have different reasons behind them.
     
  14. Sicarius

    Sicarius Reggie J Worthington

    Messages:
    3,021
    Likes Received:
    123
    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    Location:
    Conroe, Tx
    So, I can blame the hipsters?
     
  15. athawulf

    athawulf SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    1,178
    Likes Received:
    45
    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2009
    Location:
    vsa
    The misunderstanding came in when you assumed I was accusing you of lecturing me. All my statement was, was that I respect all dietary opinions unless it entails lecturing me. I never said adam, or any sort of pronoun that would have hinted at you.

    You can try and pass it off as "dude it was your article"- and even as you said the article isn't explained academically. The part that doesn't add up is you're clearly arguing about how the caveman, after experiencing his steep period of encephalization (maybe even thanks to meat) isn't as smart as we are now, because if he was as smart he could get all his nutrients from other sources. So you weren't saying at all

    You were trying to challenge the smartest period of their "retardation" which was obviously after their evolutionary change. Nice try though.

    The problem with this is that Erectus and Ergaster are not the same species we are, and in fact earlier. Anatomically modern humans (those latest specimens running around in caves) etc, so forth, are the same species we are: Homo Sapiens. You cant just copy and paste what you found from the internet- it's actually highly irrelevant.


    Anyway my main point (lol) is if you're going to come in here posing as the champion of scientific truth and knowledge, please actually be consistent with your application. Whether it is about diets, or human evolution and intelligence.
     
    vampiregenocide likes this.
  16. athawulf

    athawulf SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    1,178
    Likes Received:
    45
    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2009
    Location:
    vsa
    Looks like PHI cleared things up with some objective material, my work derailing this thread to a more physical anthropology topic seems to be over!
     
  17. athawulf

    athawulf SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    1,178
    Likes Received:
    45
    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2009
    Location:
    vsa
    Is it true that there is no actual guideline for what organic exactly is/means? In any given circumstance I will always try to buy the item with less preservatives and crap in it, but sometimes I wonder if they're exaggerating a bit haha.


    edit to add on:
    Ok one last slightly off topic thing, we crave meat, sweets, fats so much because at one point in time it was a rarity to come across. The fruit is in season, a lucky animal kill, holy crap that other guy didn't find this treasure trove of sugar first etc. So our natural instinct is to gorge ourselves on it because it is a resource that could have been soon gone. Here evolution didn't catch up to modern convenience, and we still cant fight the urge sometimes to hold back.
     
  18. highlordmugfug

    highlordmugfug themuthaphukkindeath

    Messages:
    4,659
    Likes Received:
    470
    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2009
    Location:
    _
    Fair enough. :yesway:

    I know a lot more about food and various related topics than I do about early humans. I love cooking and I love eating to a very high degree, but I have only a passing fancy for early humanity. :lol:
    :lol:
     
  19. BigPhi84

    BigPhi84 Pronounced "FEE"

    Messages:
    3,664
    Likes Received:
    489
    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2008
    Location:
    Ga

    Ninja'd :ninja: by highlordmugfug. BTW, what's your real name? I'm tired of typing highlordmugfug every time I want to address you, and highlord or mugfug just don't do you justice. :lol::lol::lol::lol:

    Also, the very fact that organic fruits and vegetables, by law, can't use chemical fertilizers which means less spectacular growth, and no chemical pesticides means that more bugs and predators can attack and damage the produce, thereby a smaller yield being brought to the market (as compared to a non-organic farmer). I bring 100 organic apples to market, you bring 1,000 regular apples to market. Sure, you have to pay more for chemicals, but ultimately, our cost to produce our crops yields is the same, so I have to charge more for my organic apples. Same reason that small guitar manufacturers have to charge a lot more for their guitars than, lets say, Ibanez.

    Couple that with the fact that the U.S. subsidizes a lot of crops. Lets say an ear of corn costs a regular farmer $0.40 cents to produce, with a markup of $0.10 cents for profit. The US pays the farmer $0.15 cents to produce that ear of corn so that the farmer can charge only $0.35 cents to the market, thus "fixing" the market price. (This is done with milk and flour too, BTW.) Imagine the organic farmers plight when he has to try to sell an ear of corn for $0.90 cents to make the math add up right. The average American has the Walmart syndrome..."Why buy this here, when I can buy that over there for cheaper?!?" And the final kabash: Organic farms have to be "certified" by the USDA. What that means is that the farms have to be inspected every so often to make sure that they're actually playing by the rules. These inspections cost money, which is then passed on to the consumer. Hopefully, you can see why it's so difficult for the "organic" industry has a hard time trying to break into the American market.
     
  20. athawulf

    athawulf SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    1,178
    Likes Received:
    45
    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2009
    Location:
    vsa
    No problem, I actually don't know much about food :rolleyes:...
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page