Martial Arts

Discussion in 'Lifestyle, Health, Fitness & Food' started by bostjan, Jun 9, 2006.

  1. Toshiro

    Toshiro .... Contributor

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    I've heard them called both, but due to too many Ranmafics I've gotten used to bokken. :lol: Really I think "wooden sword" brings up the image of a 2x4 with a ">" cut for a tip and a "t" shaped handguard. Like something out of a sunday comic strip. So I've always used bokken, and definitely use the word shinai, because no one seems to know wtf those are unless they see it.
     
  2. Naren

    Naren OldschoolGhettostyle

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    Ooo, Ranma fanfics influencing you explains the problem. A shinai and bokutou/bokken are completely different things. Bokutou/bokken are wooden swords and a shinai is a bamboo sword. A shinai/bamboo sword could never kill you, but a bokutou/bokken/wooden sword could.

    Hate to disappoint you... but, actually, "bokutou" is the most common word used in Japanese for a wooden sword (not bokken). I would have thought that you would be used to "bokutou" because of Rurouni Kenshin (I thought you were more into Rurouni Kenshin, which I'm pretty sure never uses the word "bokken" in the entire series). If you type "bokken" into a Japanese (or American) computer, you will not get any kanji, by the way. But, if you type "bokutou" into a Japanese computer, you will immediately get the kanji 'n' stuff. "Bokutou" is the kanji for "wood" and "katana" while "bokken" is the kanji for "wood" and "ken."

    shinai = 竹刀 (although the first word you'd get for "shinai" would be 市内)
    bokutou = 木刀
    bokken = ぼっけん (although you'd have to type "ki" and "tsurugi" to get 木剣, since "ki" and "ken" would result in 木 and 件 at first result)

    INTERESTING INFORMATION :eek:
     
  3. Toshiro

    Toshiro .... Contributor

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    Oh, I know the difference, I'm just saying that I don't use "bamboo sword" when talking about a shinai, the same way I don't use "wooden sword" when talking about a bokken. And yeah, since I don't live over there, don't have much of a reference point for what's more common. ;) I'll endeavor to change that, though, starting now.

    I still own a shinai, I don't recall ever personally owning a bokuto, though I've used a few. I had lots of stupid friends 10 years ago, and while they understood not to play with the live steel, they thought "That Bamboo Thing" was safe enough, so I didn't think having a bokuto around would be a good idea. They eventually proved me correct, since one of my friend went home with a welt on his temple from someone else wacking him with the shinai. If that had been a bokuto, even untrained, dude probably would've had a concussion.
     
  4. Naren

    Naren OldschoolGhettostyle

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    I do use "bamboo sword" and "wooden sword" or "bamboo practice sword" or "wooden sword" instead of the Japanese words (mainly because all Japanese understand "shinai", "bokutou", and "bokken" because they are not jargon in Japanese. They are words generally understood by everyone. However very few Americans would understand those words). I avoid using Japanese words in English as much as possible and I avoid using English words in Japanese as much as possible. My particular thing, perhaps.

    Those kids got what they deserved, thinking that a sword wouldn't hurt you because it's made out of wood/bamboo. The reason why most formal matches in kendo nowadays are done with bamboo swords is because they're safer and you can go all out, hitting as hard as you can, without worrying about killing or seriously injuring your opponent. Most kendo/kenjutsu matches over 70 years ago were done with wooden swords, because they were closer to the real thing.

    Have you ever seen Seven Samurai? I love the scene where the master swordsman is like "I win." and the other guy is like "I beat you" and he says "If they had been real swords, you would have lost" and the other guy says "Oh yeah? Then let's fight with real swords" so confident in his skills. They fight with real swords and the master swordsman ends up killing the other guy. Wooden swords and bamboo swords are great for practicing, but the only thing like the real thing is actually the real sword itself. Bamboo swords are straight, while wooden swords are curved like real swords, but even then they still don't have the weight, balance, and feel of real swords. Etc.

    Swords = cool. :yesway: At least, I think so.

    Glad to hear you care about the terminology. I've met a lot of "anime/manga" fans (this isn't an animation thing, but just as a comparison) who don't care that their terminology is wrong and just try to use the same words all the other fans use. I'm glad to see someone who cares about terminology and usage.
     
  5. Toshiro

    Toshiro .... Contributor

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    I have the hi-fi mono subtitled 2 VHS set of The Seven Samurai, the tapes look like they were made at the dawn of VHS. Heh, I need to pick-up a DVD of it. I don't think there's a single Mifune film I haven't seen, at least of the ones available on these shores. From Yojimbo, to 1941, to that 80's movie "The Sword Of The Ninja". :lol:

    70 years ago the forms were probably a whole lot more pure, and people had more time to train I bet. Still, there's gonna be a huge difference between training under a master there, especially if it's in the main dojo of the style, compared to even your run of the mill dojo here in the US.

    People on a whole are stupid about things like that. They think the overgrown steak knife they bought at the fea market for $50 is a real version of a Japanese sword, nevermind the morons on home-shopping-networks selling this stuff. There's a vid on ebaum's world or something of one of those morons wacking a cheap-ass katana against a counter top to "show how durable it is, and that it's a REAL sword" and the thing snaps and the tip flies at the guy injuring him. That one video sums it up quite well.

    As for the wording, well I have to keep up on something, my fat ass is not going to be winning any matches, or fighting any duels anytime soon... The most live steel can look forward to here is some burglar dumb enough to try to rob me when I'm home.
     
  6. Naren

    Naren OldschoolGhettostyle

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    Yojimbo was cool. I've seen about 15-20 Kurosawa films, with Mifune in at least 1/3 of those. I have Seven Samurai on the very rare region-free Criteria Classics DVD. They only made it for a few months when it first came out before they were told to cut it out and make it region 1. I could probably sell it for some money.

    Well, most of the martial arts in the US are watered down. They can't take the extremely strict discipline or the dedicated study. Regular Kendo in high schools here in Japan isn't so effective for real fighting, but is more as a sport. Still, it's more authentic then most kendo in the US.

    I'll agree that people are pretty stupid and gullible, in general.
     
  7. evil

    evil vile

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    I play Judo after I practice guitar at the dojo.
     
  8. Metal Ken

    Metal Ken Hates the Air Contributor

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    You know, they actually had that at a local movie rental place a few years ago?
    I remember it because i had read about the Criterion classics edition of the Killer going for like 400$ on ebay around the same time.. then i was at the store and saw the Criterion classic of Seven Samurai... I had to check it out. Good flick. :yesway:
     
  9. Naren

    Naren OldschoolGhettostyle

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    They still make the Criterion classic edition of Seven Samurai. It's just not non-region anymore. They only made the non-region version for a few months, which is why it's so rare. I remember about 5 years ago, I was taking care of some Japanese students (as a job) and one of the students said "HEY! You have Shichinin no samurai! Let me see it!" and I said "I don't think you can watch it on your computer, but you can try." and he did and it worked (even though he had a Region 2 DVD-ROM). We were both surprised. So I looked into it and found out about the rare non-region free version that was made just around the time I had bought the DVD. It wasn't until several years after that that it became a really valuable collector's item.
     
  10. forelander

    forelander you fail me

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    On a more related note I had training today (muay thai) which ended in a good spar. Problem is my friend is very switched on when it comes to checking and I always end up kicking his shin with mine and it sucks. Though on the up side my right shin doesn't seem to hurt at all so maybe i'm semi conditioned. Left one is screwed, though not as bad as I expected. And I still got him some good hits/kicks so it's all good.
     

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