Lt. Refuses to deploy to Iraq.

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Jason, Jul 23, 2006.

  1. Ken

    Ken Forum MVP

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    Oh, puh-lease. I don't agree with everything Bush does, and I certainly think it's past time our troops came home, but those aren't the topic of this thread.
    I don't criticize Bush because if I were elected I don't think I could do a better job. If you could, more power to you.

    Oh yes, I would much rather have our military fall apart and be defenseless than continue to fight a war I think has gone on WAY too long. :rolleyes:
     
  2. Cancer

    Cancer Cancer:The Crucifuct

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    I just wanted to clarify what I meant by "ordinary", unless I wasn't clear earlier.
     
  3. Ken

    Ken Forum MVP

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    I got it, now. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
     
  4. ajdehoogh

    ajdehoogh blarg Contributor

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    Here on my thoughts on this matter.

    I have deployed 3 times in support of OIF. Volunteering this most recent time because my shop needed the help. I feel he doesn't deserve to be on officer. They should be above reproach. While I feel we were right with this war there are of course better ways of handling this war. And precisely what those mistakes are...only history can judge that. He had a choice to sign the contract or not. He chose to sign the contract. He has to live up to his obligations. He also has a choice every day to continue to follow orders. He chose not to. He should and will be punished. I can only speak about the Marine Corps but if we feel an illegal order has been given it is our legal and moral right to disagree with the order but there is a process. It doesn't involve going to the media at all. Anyway I hope that made some sense. :lol:

    My :2c: ! Later
     
  5. Shannon

    Shannon Lord Super Awesome Contributor

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    Most jobs don't make you take an oath do to your job, regardless of your personal feelings. By taking that oath, you've committed yourself to do what the military wants you to do. To me, that's like promising someone something & then backing out of the deal. Where's the "honor" in that? He wants an honorable discharge. How ironic is that? And let's not forget all the money the military spent to teach him his job. And to top it all off, he wants full retirement benefits. The fucker didn't earn any of it.

    So yes, it's quite a bit different that a civilian job.
     
  6. ajdehoogh

    ajdehoogh blarg Contributor

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    ^ Good point flyboy! :lol:
     
  7. Shannon

    Shannon Lord Super Awesome Contributor

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    ^ I'd knew you'd understand. ;)
    I hope everything's going OK for you over in Iraq.
     
  8. Mastodon

    Mastodon Songs about My Cats

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    While I don't mind him wanting to pull out.

    Wanting full benefits and an honorable discharge?

    That's crap.

    Opinion of him = -1 now.
     
  9. Cancer

    Cancer Cancer:The Crucifuct

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    Where does it say that in the article? The only thing I could find was:

    “Please allow me to leave the Army with honor and dignity,” he concluded.

    Read that anyway you want, but I don't see any mention of benefits.
     
  10. Scott

    Scott Aye. Contributor

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    Where does it say this? I may have just passed over it, but I didn't see in the article anywhere that it said this.

    Personally I don't think he should get those benifits if he is after them. But if he wants out, that's his decision. All im objecting to is that the military basically "owns" a soldier as soon as they sign up.

    Hell, if I was suppose to be shipped out with him, i'd be glad he wasn't coming. Because if someone doesn't agree with being there, they probably won't be the first person to have your back in a firefight IMO.
     
  11. ajdehoogh

    ajdehoogh blarg Contributor

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    So far so good. Only little while to go.

    Nice! Even if you are Canadian and do everything backward! :fawk:
     
  12. Cancer

    Cancer Cancer:The Crucifuct

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    Memorial Day for all soldiers is embodied in the words of the oath that you first take when you enlist into the service of the country:

    I DO SOLEMNLY SWEAR (OR AFFIRM) THAT I WILL SUPPORT AND DEFEND THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES AGAINST ALL ENEMIES, FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC; THAT I WILL BEAR TRUE FAITH AND ALLEGIANCE TO THE SAME; AND THAT I WILL OBEY THE ORDERS OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES AND THE ORDERS OF THE OFFICERS APPOINTED OVER ME, ACCORDING TO REGULATIONS AND THE UNIFORM CODE OF MILITARY JUSTICE. SO HELP ME GOD.


    I like that line.... "DEFEND THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES AGAINST ALL ENEMIES".....

    See, in my mind, if my government LIES to me, and then expects me to risk death for that lie, then my government IS my enemy....

    If I'm a soldier, who do I fight then? How do I fight then?
     
  13. noodles

    noodles Contributor

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    ^ :agreed:

    The president took an oath, too. I don't think lying to the American people, fabricating excuses to fight a war against a nation that never attacked us, and sending soldiers to die so defense contractor buddies can rake in millions of dollars is pretty much breaking that oath.

    So, who is holding him accountable? Who is going to take him to trial? Impeachment is a joke, since it relies on Congress to be the jury, which basicly comes down to a popularity contest. :rolleyes:

    So, refusing to fight a lie for a crooked president is a crime? Holding this officer accountable is as laughable as the National Guard arresting people in New Orleans for "looting" grocery stores.

    Maybe some of you forgot that GW Bush went AWOL from the National Guard, where he already ran off to avoid Vietnam. When I was in the military, I was taught to lead by example. I wish every single soldier would stage a walk out right now. What will they do if the troops refuse to serve? When our leaders have no honor, that oath of service becomes worthless and empty.
     
  14. Shannon

    Shannon Lord Super Awesome Contributor

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    Considering he's at Ft. Lewis (less than 10 minutes from me), I've read and seen more coverage than you guys have. That's what he's asking for.
     
  15. David

    David je t'aime Contributor

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    :agreed:

    Also, fuck the so help me god thing.:noway:
     
  16. Cancer

    Cancer Cancer:The Crucifuct

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    If he is, well, then I think he should accept the concept that those benefits will be lost to him. To see this thing through properly, he shouldn't even want them, if he feels that strongly.


    Hahahha, its the RAGE OF THE BALD METAL GUITARISTS.....Duh duh duhhhhhhhh...

    Perhaps we should stage a hairless coup.:scream: :scream:

    Sorry, jus trying to lighten the mood.:lol:
     
  17. Dive-Baum

    Dive-Baum Bite Me Fan Boy!!

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    First of all, this guy is by no means a coward. He joined the military and has achieved an officer's rank BUT HE IS IN THE MILITARY!! And since there is no draft he did it voluntarily. I sympathise with him however. I would not want to go over there either and put myself in harms way over what basically ammounts to a Presidential Vendetta. He has been paid and trained and it is time to go and fight. This is not like it was in the 60's and 70's when men were getting drafted, thrown into bootcamp and shipped to the jungle. Him doing this sets a horrible precident for all future soldiers (especially Reservists) The government should come down on him like the Hammer of the Gods. This war is bullshit but the one in Afghanistan isn't and there will be others that arent as well. If you sign up it means more than just getting a education on the GI Bill and getting a low interest rate on your mortgage on a VA Loan. It means you represent the will of our Government. And while said Government has their collective heads up their asses, they are still our government. He is on the payroll, and it is time to go and fight.
     
  18. noodles

    noodles Contributor

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    So, the government is wrong, but he should just blindly go along with it because he signed up to fight? :scratch:

    He signed up to defend his country. Tell me how this war fits into that. He's one guy, so he's wrong. However, if he was hundreds, or even thousands of guys, then you can't simply sweep it under the rug.

    This is a clear cut case of might makes right. The government has the might, so everyone thinks it's right. Bullshit.
     
  19. Metal Ken

    Metal Ken Hates the Air Contributor

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    thats what i'm preachin'. Always bothered me when people mention "The Troops who are over in iraq defending our freedom!" I'm always like "How the hell is that defending our freedom?"
     
  20. rogue

    rogue metal is forever

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