Lt. Refuses to deploy to Iraq.

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Jason, Jul 23, 2006.

  1. Jason

    Jason Forum MVP

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    http://articles.news.aol.com/news/_...g/20060723081609990001?ncid=NWS00010000000001

    What are your opinions?
     
  2. Rev2010

    Rev2010 Contributor

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    Tell you what I think... the guys a fucking pussy. Hear me out... I'm not saying I would want to go to Iraq cause I surely wouldn't. Hell, I don't agree with the state of the Iraq war either. I say he's a pussy cause the guy joined the military after 9/11 with a desire to defend his country. He even went so far as to take a test to prove his childhood asthma wasn't a threat. Now he's acting like there is no chain of command and that he has the right to "decide" on his own that he simply won't go. Well... that's not how the military works. It's a chain of command. Every single soldier doesn't get to go disputing the decisions of the command. The military would never work that way. He shouldn't have joined if he wasn't prepared to follow orders. Everyone that joins knows the positive and negative aspects of being in the military. So I think this guy is an ass. If you want to talk about sad situations let's talk about all the German military officers under Hitler that didn't want to follow the sick and insane orders given to them but had to lest they be executed or thrown in a prison camp.


    Rev.
     
  3. distressed_romeo

    distressed_romeo F'king ............ Forum MVP

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    Although I agree that he should have realised that he might be put into this situation when he signed up, kudos to him for standing by his principles.
     
  4. Chris

    Chris metalguitarist.org Forum MVP

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    Re-opened. Keep this civil.
     
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  5. Mastodon

    Mastodon Songs about My Cats

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    Well, while legally he has no right to do it as he has promised his service to the millitary.

    I hold no hard feelings against him for doing so.



    Do you want someone fighting for you who really DOSN'T want to be fighting for you in the first place?

    If someone is angry that someone else will not fight for them, they should go out there and fight themselves.
     
  6. The Dark Wolf

    The Dark Wolf Contributor

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    ^ I could care less about this particular debate, but dude, you da man. I'm proud to see your ACLU card is fresh and shiney, bro. :lol:


    :wub: Nice job, Chris. (Although if you keep this shit up, Mr. Test might come looking for your ass.)



    Back to our regularly scheduled debate. :wavey:
     
  7. zimbloth

    zimbloth Nick // Axe Palace Vendor Forum MVP

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    I don't have much of an opinion on this, but all I know is, you get one chance at life on this Earth (that I know of), and I'm not going to put my life on the line for a cause I don't believe in. It's that simple.
     
  8. David

    David je t'aime Contributor

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    lesson learned, read before you jump into things. Learn what it is you are fighting for, who you're fighting, and why you are fighting. Not just what they tell you, but what it actually is about.
     
  9. Ken

    Ken Forum MVP

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    Okay, here are my opinions.

    1. I believe it is his god-given right to choose not to go.
    2. I believe it is his god-given right to pay the consequences for that choice.
    3. I think he's an idiot for allowing books and second-hand information to form his opinion of what's going on over there.
    4. I hope that when he gets out of the brig and decides to go to work for McDonalds that he does his research first. It'd be an awful shame to refuse to serve Quarter Pounders With Cheese because cows are lead to slaughter, but be okay serving Filet O'Fish because they just happen into the net... :rolleyes:
    5. I don't think this version of armchair quarterback is any easier than Football's version.
     
  10. Cancer

    Cancer Cancer:The Crucifuct

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    This guy is a hero, straight up. Before I read the article I pre-judged him a coward, now, I maintain that he may, arguably, be braver for standing his ground.

    This guy paid to get into service, offered to go Afghanistan, and now because of information he diligently researched and discovered on his own, has decided that he will not pawn for interest that are basically un-American, for a war that will every passing has people asking "why are we over here again"?

    I'll tell you what I find the most interesting, is that the Army originally was like "ok fine, you don't have to fight here's a desk job serving the war, how's that"? And then after he turns that down, because it still serves the war, only now is he facing court-marshall. Why wasn't he facing a court martial originally? This reeks of damage control, 'cause you know if this goes down, that other officiers are going to follow suit, the potential domino effect for this huge. HUGE......

    Who was it that said that "wars will cease when men refuse to fight"????
     
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  11. Mastodon

    Mastodon Songs about My Cats

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    Very good point psyphere.
     
  12. Jason

    Jason Forum MVP

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    My views on the military are, If you wanna go good for you more power to ya BUT me I ain't getting blown up or killed for anybody. Call me a coward or un-american but I'm not going get killed for some cause i don't support.
     
  13. Metal Ken

    Metal Ken Hates the Air Contributor

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    The article didnt say WHAt he was reading did it?
    I mean, he could've been reading documents none of us have access to.

    I think the dude's badass for doing it. Just as badass as any of the dudes who go over and give up their lives. There's a difference between "Defending his country" like he signed up to do and "promoting a 'war' you dont believe in.
     
  14. Shannon

    Shannon Lord Super Awesome Contributor

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    As a former military member for 7 years, I have mix feelings on it. On one hand, it's cool to stand for what you believe in. On the other hand, as a military member, he took a solumn oath to SERVE in the military. There is a chain of command & orders must be followed. The moment he took that oath, he waved bye-bye to individualism.

    I didn't like everything I had to do in the military, but I did it anyway. Why? Because from 1995-2002, it was my job! So, why did I leave the military. I knew the Iraq "thing" was coming & I didn't believe we were justified in going over there. If I believed it was justified, I may have stayed in for another term.

    Bottom line, the guy is clearly not ready for the military & his actions are embarrassing. If you go into the military, you follow orders without question. That tried-and-true foundation is what made the US Military become the most kickass outfit in the world.
     
  15. Jason

    Jason Forum MVP

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    I pretty much agree with Shannon.:yesway:
     
  16. Ken

    Ken Forum MVP

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    Actually, the article did list 2 of the books he read. Can't remember what they were.

    I respect your opinion, but I don't agree. He's not a badass, IMO, and I hope someone who is serving over there reads your words. I'm sure they'll get all warm and fuzzy reading how he's just a brave as they are.

    The truth of the matter is, he signed up to serve his country in whatever capacity it wanted. He wrote Uncle Sam a blank check for his time and effort, and now he's refusing to pay it. The man has no credibility in my eyes, and he's a disgrace to all the brave men and women who are in Iraq against their wishes, yet honoring their commitment.

    Oh, but by all means, he's asking for an honorable discharge and all those neat benefits, I'm sure...
     
  17. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    I never joined up. Everyone I know personally who went through the military ended up with serious issues with it. The military has done some awful things that I can neither stand for, nor would want to be the brunt of.

    I respect anyone willing to develop the discipline needed to join the armed forces and risk their lives.

    I still think this guy has some balls doing what he is doing. I'm surprised he isn't nose-deep in shit right now, though. Or at least as of the publication of that article. You certainly don't want to fuck with the military. Why? What does the military do? They blow up things and kill people.

    Now, don't take me saying he has balls is like being brave. Bravery is altruistic heroism- ssacrificing part of yourself for the sake of others. Having balls is doing something highly risky, often because you are defiant and stupid.
     
  18. Shannon

    Shannon Lord Super Awesome Contributor

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    THANK YOU! :agreed:
     
  19. The Dark Wolf

    The Dark Wolf Contributor

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    Hey, there are pretty clearly and obviously two sides to this story, both very legitimate. Why does it have to be absolutely one way or the other? :scratch:

    Personally, I find it a bit shortsighted to come up with moral absolutes and then defend them dogmatically from either position. *Swiss mode ON*
     
  20. Scott

    Scott Aye. Contributor

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    I say good for him. I'd do the same thing if I didn't believe in what I was fighting for. After 9/11, yeah I can see why many men and women joined the military. To defend their country. But since then, there have been, like mentioned before, many questions as to if the war in iraq right now is justified. Some think so, others obviously, do not.

    I agree, that it's his job, like it or not. But everyone in America has the right to refuse work. Sure their are consequences... get fired, or in this case, potential court-marshall. But really, when your president, on an almost daily basis talks about this war being about defending freedom, how can you say that he sold his individuality and has no choice in the matter?
     

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