Look at what Peavey Brought Back...

Discussion in 'Standard Guitars' started by Church2224, Jul 13, 2017.

  1. Church2224

    Church2224 Guitar Whore

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  2. Dawn of the Shred

    Dawn of the Shred Power of the Riff

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    Good move peavey!!!
     
  3. electriceye

    electriceye SS.org Regular

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    WHOA! Nice!!!!!
     
  4. Pablo

    Pablo Resident Wanker

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    Hmmm... I was of the clear impression that EVH owned the design of the Wolfgang - I smell trouble brewing!
     
  5. manu80

    manu80 Jackson for life !

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    yeah they took the wolfgang shape i n of the hp long horn... even the headstock is like the Wg not the hp...strange they can do this...
     
  6. DarthV

    DarthV SS.org Regular

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    Well they did keep making the HPs after Eddie left, so probably no issue with that shape. Wonder what the neck will feel like compared to the Peavey Wolfgangs. Out of my Axis, USA Wolf Standard and EVH Wolf Special, the Axis has the best feeling neck for me but I much prefer the carved top on the Peavey!
     
  7. Pablo

    Pablo Resident Wanker

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    Well, the original HP was a double cutaway version of the Wolfgang and thus not the same shape. I am willing to bet a cold one that EVH, with the backing of Fender, will take Peavey to court over this one... Live and let live was never really Eddie's M.O.!
     
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  8. silverabyss

    silverabyss _(:3 」∠)_ Contributor

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    I too am wondering how they're going to get away from FMIC mashing their nads over this

    if this flies maybe a Vandenberg is up next?
     
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  9. DarthV

    DarthV SS.org Regular

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    I would imagine the design patent has expired. Design patents are only good for a max of 20 years, depending on when they were applied for & granted.
     
  10. USMarine75

    USMarine75 Doc McStuffins Contributor

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    The Peavey Wolfgang was Patent Pending in 1996 and approved in 1997 IIRC.

    From Peavey's former Product Manager regarding the changes when EVH left and Peavey rebranded the guitar as the HP in 2005:

    "The Wolfgang was designed mainly by Peavey with Ed's input. The strict answer is that Ed contributed to the headstock and parts of the body. We could have built the new guitar with the same look and feel as the Wolfgang but instead decided to make more significant changes. The Wolfgang is a very special guitar that we wanted to honor by not just changing the name. The HP Special is an evolution of the Wolfgang with almost all of the changes coming from customer input though Peavey's Custom Shop and other customer interaction."

    "Other than the styling differences with the new upper and lower horns the changes are: belly cut, natural binding, new neck cut at the body, better balance, more sustain, recessed back plate, recessed knob. The neck is a bit different it will feel very similar to the old neck but as you progress towards the body the back of the neck becomes thinner. This provides greater access to the upper frets. Also the trem is floating on the HP Special and the production guitars will have a new device that allows the user to set the trem to be fully floating or down only.
    Finally, Peavey is taking more of a custom shop approach with the HP Special. By visiting any Peavey retailer you will be able to order your HP Special exactly the way you want. Necks will include maple, rosewood and ebony with no additional charge for rosewood or ebony. Lastly, we will be increasing the build time from 60 to 90 days but feel a much nicer instrument can be built by spending the additional 30 days. This will give our luthiers time to perfect the burst or find the perfect flame/quilt or neck. When someone spends approximately $2,199 (approximate MSRP) for a guitar they should get exactly what they want and the guitar should be extremely high quality. Left handed versions will also be available via the Custom Shop."​

    [Editor's Note: D-Tuna will only work on a down only bridge.]

    "The major changes where to make the pickups more appropriate for coil tapping. Howerver we were very congnisant that many potential owners of HP Specials are already Wolfgang owners so we tried to keep the tone and volume very close. You can play the Wolfgang and HP Special side by side and notice zero volume drop or major tone change between the two guitars.

    The tone knob when pulled will activate the coil tap on both pickups while the volume will activate a high pass filter. If you wanted to get close to the pickups with production pickups (note: these are not the actual pickups used in the HP Special) the bridge would be similar to a Duncan Distortion and the neck similar to a JB."
     
  11. HeHasTheJazzHands

    HeHasTheJazzHands greg rulz ok

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    So almost exactly 20 years after the design was patented.

    Damn Hartley. :lol:

    I can see EVH trying something, though. Given this thing is almost a grand or two cheaper than the USA EVH Wolfgangs, I can see this eating Fender's sales. Peavey USA-made gear is no slouch in the slightest.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2017
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  12. Mathemagician

    Mathemagician SS.org Regular

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    Man. Maaaaaaan. (Aziz's dads voice on Master of None). These look good man. And I'd always felt that the wolf gangs were basically very comfortable guitars. Can't wait to hear some reviews!
     
  13. DarthV

    DarthV SS.org Regular

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    Oh, hell yes. Birdseye/figure maple fret board and neck for around half the cost of a USA EVH that has an unfigured quarter-sawn neck? Still not sure I need another guitar, but this might be one hell of a good value.
     
  14. USMarine75

    USMarine75 Doc McStuffins Contributor

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    Haha kind of makes me love him all the more!

    [​IMG]

    I've had about 20 of the Peavey Wolfgangs (still have around 10 IIRC) and the USA made ones are amazing. I have several custom shop ones that almost rival my Private Stock PRS (in all but the wood selection of course).

    [​IMG]
     
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  15. manu80

    manu80 Jackson for life !

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    Funny i almost pull the trigger on a HP 2 days ago
    Trans amber burl top, but no archtop. 900 euros.
    The neck is the same as a wolfgang right ?
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2017
  16. GuitarBizarre

    GuitarBizarre Listen to physics.

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    AFAIK that's not quite right.

    Ignoring copyright, which doesn't really apply to physical products like this, there are 3 main things people can use to protect their ideas in American Law: Utility Patents, Design Patents, and Trademarks.

    Trademarks are signifiers that identify an image a company uses to identify itself to their customers - so things like the Coca Cola logo, or particularly unique and consistent design in the product. For example, Dimarzio holds and protects a trademark on making pickups with two cream coloured bobbins and no cover (Because that's how all Dimarzio pickups looked for many years). That's why you can't get double cream coils from Seymour Duncan unless you order a custom shop pickup with a cover, ask that both coils be cream underneath, and then remove the cover yourself.

    Utility Patents are the desirable form of patent - they cover the operating principle of an invention of some sort, and they state that you alone have the legal right to that operating principle, nobody else can make a device that does the same thing as yours and sell it as a product (Unless they achieve the same thing as your product but in a different way). For example, Floyd Rose held a patent on their Double Locking Tremolos. You can read that patent here: http://www.google.co.uk/patents/US4171661

    The important part of the floyd rose patent is that it specifically mentions the clamping of the string to the guitar at each end of the speaking length. This meant that no other manufacturer could make a tremolo that locked in those two places, hence why Kahler locking nuts were originally behind the nut, and hence why Ibanez Edge systems that aren't made by Floyd Rose at all, used to have "Licensed under Floyd Rose Patents" on them. They paid for the priveledge of using his exact patented mechanism.

    Design patents, on the other hand, DO NOT protect the workings of any invention or device you may have submitted. They protect the specific design, aesthetic elements and construction choices of a SINGULAR product - In other words, they prevent people from making something that looks exactly like your product, and slapping their name on it, but they don't prevent someone from making a product that works exactly like yours works, but looks significantly different. That makes them a much less desirable form of patent, and they're quite commonly requested and used, when someone has tried for a Utility Patent but has failed to show that their invention is sufficiently unique as to warrant a new patent being issued.


    A design patent is typically valid for 14 Years from the date of issue, a Utility Patent is valid for 20. Trademarks are essentially immortal - something can remain your trademark for as long as you're willing to legally protect it from other companies. That's why Floyd Rose's utility patent no longer applies to the Ibanez Edge, and thus new production Ibanez Edge tremolos no longer say "Licensed Under Floyd Rose Patents" on them, but Seymour Duncan still can't sell you a pickup with Dual Cream coils without a cover - Dimarzio still legally protect their Cream Coil trademark whenever required so it's still valid.

    In comparison however, Fender Musical Instruments Corporation does NOT hold a trademark over the body shape and design of the Stratocaster - this is because for years, FMIC didn't legally challenge the imported, lower quality Stratocasters coming in from China and being sold under various brand names and identities. When they finally took it upon themselves to try and issue legal challenges to those companies or importers, they were ultimately told by the courts that they couldn't claim to have a trademark on something that they had invented, but hadn't in any way tried to stop other people from profiting from or using in that time.

    They do of course still hold trademarks over Fender, Stratocaster, and Strat, as terminology for their products and merchandise, but as of that legal judgement, making a guitar with your company name on it, that looks like a strat, plays like a strat, and sounds like a strat? That's perfectly legal as long as you don't CALL it a strat.



    This is all a very longwinded way of saying, however, that whatever the reason behind this decision, it was not due to the expiration of a Design Patent or a Utility Patent, reasons being:

    1 - EVH doesn't own a design patent for the Wolfgang Body shape, and even if he did, it would be 5 or 6 years expired by now.
    2 - He does own a design patent for a guitar headstock, but that's been expired for 5 or 6 years also - https://www.google.co.uk/patents/US...ved=0ahUKEwj896Sv8InVAhWbOsAKHbe2AeQQ6AEILzAB (Basing the 5-6 year figure on the fact that early Wolfgang Models had Pat. Pend on the headstock and not the patent number, meaning the patent was approved after production began, but also after the patent was submitted and granted provisional patent status, a process that takes a maximum of 1 year)
    3 - He has two Utility Patents to his name, one for a guitar stand that was never marketed and has since expired, and another for a stringed instrument featuring what we would all recognise as the D-Tuna. The D-Tuna patent expires in 2027.

    He does own and legally protect multiple trademarks, however these are Logos, distinctive visual designs like Frankenstrat guitar finishes, and so on. As far as I can find, he has never legally tried to claim or protect the Wolfgang body shape. Given how often he's sued people making Frankenstrat replicas however, I rather suspect this is not because he wouldn't sue anyone over it if he could - he probably simply can't because he has no legal ownership of that trademark.

    Or, more likely - there is no trademark on the Wolfgang body shape at all, due to the amount of prior art in guitar shapes and whathaveyou.
     
  17. DeathCubeK

    DeathCubeK SS.org Regular

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    Eddie only patented the headstock design of the new Wolfgang's from what I understand.
     
  18. DarthV

    DarthV SS.org Regular

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    TLWQ, thanks for the good info, hadn't really looked into what had or hadn't been TM'd or Patented. My reply to an earlier post was to just say that if there was a patent, it would have expired by now.

    It may well be there was some sort of contract between the two parties that has now expired.
     
  19. feraledge

    feraledge Aum Horizonyo Contributor

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    Between this and the Invective, Peavey seems a bit "fuck you, Eddie" these days.
     
  20. USMarine75

    USMarine75 Doc McStuffins Contributor

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    It wasn't exactly amicable. EVH made his traditional commentary after he left, that company A didn't get it right, so now he's with company B that gets it lol.

    He was such a pain in the ... when he was with them too: They made a bunch of rosewood fretboard wolfgangs back in 97, and when he saw them, he forbade them from selling them, because he only liked maple fretboards. So they sat in a closet until 2002 when the custom shop opened up, and they had to sell them out of the CS (but they are NOT CS) just to get away with it.
     

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